# To Cock or NOT To Cock?



## Topper70 (Nov 17, 2010)

I'm relatively new to golf (I have hacked a few rounds during the late summer and throughout autumn), and so far am not too great at the game ... 7-8 shots on average per hole on relatively simple courses!

After a conversation with one of my friends regarding wrist cocking, I did a bit of reading and have become thoroughly confused. Some advise cocking at the start of your back-swing to get you in position, some advise to let it happen at the top of your back-swing, and others advocate no cocking of the wrists at all and to try to maintain them in the position they started off in through out (for a 3/4 strength swing).

I've tried each, and to be honest with my current level of skill, I have not really noticed a great deal of difference between each style in terms of how badly my shot ends up! Hopefully those of you with a higher level of consistency to your games can advise me on which you believe the best option to be? Or even if in fact if there is another one to add to the long list of things I tend to think about rather than striking the ball!

All advise gratefully received.


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## RGDave (Nov 17, 2010)

I have problems with using my wrists properly in the golf swing. I think it is essential to cock the wrists so would suggest you do so.
I have read a lot of articles (and sections of books) about it there is some difference in opinion as to "when" but in my non-expert opinion, I'd say not to get too hung up on when.

My pros have tended to persuade me to cock the wrists and set the club when the club is pointing directly away from the target, often thought of as the 9 o'clock position.

If you look at this sequence, JJ hasn't doesn't done much by 9 o'clock, but look what's coming.







I have seen players do it early and late. Lorena Ochoa for example leaves it late, whereas I can think of a number that do it ever so quickly. What is important (again, from a non-expert point of view) is that once you've done it, and the club is on the way to the top, you keep it, and even create more "angle" and don't lose the left arm to bending, which is where I go horribly wrong.

If in doubt, practise half swings - maybe look up the "L" to "L" drill on youtube.

In Faldo's book "a swing for life" he advises earlier better than later. However, I have seen (live) one or two pros that cock the wrists very early indeed, and they just create more and more angle to the top, keep it on the way down and then smash the ball miles BECAUSE the clubhead is travelling amazingly fast to catch up with the hands.
To me, as a weak swinger with bad wrists and left arm bending and pathetic width, it's glorious to watch.

I just wish I could do better.....


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## mrwoo (Nov 17, 2010)

*Re: To Cock or NOT To Cock? *DELETED**

Post deleted by brendy


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## Region3 (Nov 17, 2010)

I 'try' to not cock my wrists straight away to get the feeling of shoulders, arms, hands and club all moving away from the ball as one unit.

It's probably not much after takeaway in my case though, probably somewhere between 7 and 8 o'clock where they start to break, and are as far as they're going to go by the time my arms are just past horizontal, about 10 o'clock.


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## sawtooth (Nov 17, 2010)

I voted for "other" because I couldnt tell you for sure, its not something I consciously think about.

I guess the left wrist cocks fully by the time the club has reached the top of the backswing. 

If you grip the club correctly, take it away without any wrist roll, do it slowly and do not overswing keeping your left arm straight-ish, surely its something that just happens. No?


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## richart (Nov 17, 2010)

Never thought about it. I just swing the club and assume the cocking comes at the right time.


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## drawboy (Nov 17, 2010)

Never thought about it. I just swing the club and assume the cocking comes at the right time.
		
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Yep I'm with you on this, just swing keep the thoughts out of it they just mess your head up,


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 17, 2010)

Never worried about it too much and certainly it's never been an issue when I have had lessons. One less thing for me to be worried about (only 1713 others per swing)


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## sev112 (Nov 17, 2010)

I used to cock quite early  - again following what Faldo says in "swing for life" - very very good book by the way.  Served me very well for a long time .
In fact my Pro got me doing an exercise whereby you cock your wrists at set up (basically rotating the club vertically towards you) , then you rotate the wrists to the right 90 degrees; then just lift your arms, then downswing .  
It's a Leadbetter drill and works really quite well.  In fact it works so well, that in one trip to France a few years ago, when i was timing the ball so badly, i started playing all my shots using eth drill and i played out of my skn.


HOwever,  after some serious game anlysis a year back i worked out that the error in timing my release led to several hoiks and double bogeys a round. 
So, with the help of a website that got me thinking, i took the wrist cock completely out of my swing.  

What has happened is that i now swing typically with a half to 3/4 back swing at most, i have lost prob 1 club distance, but i hardly ever hit anything (other than driver) off line.  My consistency is now a huge strength.

I think that by not cocking, i get more dynamic release of the club shaft, which given teh fewer moving parts is much much more repeatable than my old wrist cock, elbow bend, shoulder turn and hip turn.  I dont turn my hips much these days either to keep that variable out of teh equation as well.


My conclusion, is to take as many variables out of teh swing as possible and rely on the engineered parts (ie the club shaft)


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## goldenbare (Nov 17, 2010)

Have you noticed Steve Stricker recently, achieving much more on the American tour and seems to have taken out any sort of wrist cock whatsoever. http://www.peakperformancegolfswing.com/steve-stricker/
have a look at this for comment and further links.


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## Region3 (Nov 17, 2010)

I think I've misunderstood the question to mean wrist hinge.

If I've got it wrong then I've no idea if I cock my wrists or not, but I definitely hinge them


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## bigslice (Nov 17, 2010)

ive been told i dont cock them quick enough. i think the only way each of us will know, is to video ourselves. im hoping santa brings me a waterproof mini hd camcorder for xmas. i reckon he wont have to spend more than 79.99 plus a wee mini tripod.


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## shagster (Nov 17, 2010)

as homer said, too much to think about, just grip it, rip it, then go and look for it, you never know, it may even be near a fairway.
shagster


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## sev112 (Nov 18, 2010)

good spot goldenbare - nice to see that the recent World No 2 is following my advice  - funny, i dont recall him sending me the cheque for my consultancy and lesson fees 

Here is really where i got the idea from :
http://www.taly.com/talypullpush.html

and extract : ...

" ... your primary goal must be to MAINTAIN SHAFT FLEX on your downswing and through impact.  Slow down your swing and start maintaining the bow in your shaft through impact.  DO NOT RELEASE IT INTO IMPACT.  That is a very different approach which adds an unnecessary complication into your golf swing.

"Please keep an open mind and remember that YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SWING to play this game.  If I had a plastic ruler, I could walk up to a person and swing it very fast and hit them on the shoulder or I could walk over to them, bend the ruler back, and then sting them with it.  One of these methods delivers a lot more power in a split second then the other."


And it was precisely this last key point, along with the accuracy and consistency benefits of not cocking that set me on this approach.


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## Region3 (Nov 18, 2010)

I'm still confused as to your definition of wrist cock.

If you hold your left hand out in front of you with the palm facing the floor, is wrist cock moving the back of your hand to the right or towards your face?

As for maintaining the shaft flex through the swing, why not just get the right flex to start with?


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## Topper70 (Nov 18, 2010)

Thanks All - I'm all for taking out as many variables as possible ... not too sure if it is because I am new to the game, but I really have a tendency to over think every little aspect; I'm sure that the last thing that I do is actually think about hitting the ball! 

Was this foot right, was my stance correct (too wide or too narrow), am I holding the club correctly (too tight or too loose).

I think what I really need to do is be able to quiet my mind before I even approach the ball which I can happily do in the driving range, but just not on the course.

Anyway, I'll keep swinging at it and try to eliminate as much as possible, and then hope for some decent shoots and not rely on others to help me find my ball after each shot (that's when it has gone further than the ladies tee anyway!)


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## sev112 (Nov 18, 2010)

I'm still confused as to your definition of wrist cock.
		
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Good point.

My understanding (and as liable as anyone else to be wrong ) is :

 - Wrist up towards face from set up position - Wrist Cock
 - Wrists rotated to the right from set up - Supination
 - Wrists rotated to the left from set up  - Pronation 
(those last 2 might be the wrong way round now i think about it...)

So what i understand  as "wrist cock" and "release" i visualise as like hammering a nail into wood in fonrt of you  - it's that last fraction "flick" of the wrists just before the hammer hits the nail that gets the maximum transfer of energy into the nail. 

And it's where the power for a lot of golf swings come from, so it is widely used as such.   The challenge i always had was timing this natural release (which in a golf swing is at an inclined swing angle/plane)and which relies on centripetal force to happen at the right time.  Get your timing right and swing plane right, and balance right and the centripetal force does it all for you , and bobs your uncle and 300 yard drives and so on.  In my case, getting the timing right, teh swing plane right and balance right is a rather hopeful proposition, hence not very likely that my timing of the natural release will coincide with the clubhead being at the point of impact with the ball.


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## Oddsocks (Nov 18, 2010)

I'd ask yourself a few questions 

A) have you found your natural swing yet

B) have you a repetitive swing

C) have you had any sort of coaching or lessons

D) do you have a consistent shot shape/bad shot shape

If the answer to any of these is no then I wouldn't boggle your brains with questions like the post title. I was also get some basic foundation lessons booked to avoid any bad habits at the start, trust me once ingrained a bad habit can take months/years to brake. And if you are honestly worried about your wrist timing your pro would asses your swing and advise if it's a point that needs addressing,

But this is s personal opinion


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## sawtooth (Nov 18, 2010)

Thats what I think as well.

Learn how to grip the club properly, correct arm set up, posture, all the basics first.

If you get the above right wrist cock, hinge, or whatever will just happen naturally.


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## goldenbare (Nov 18, 2010)

And it was precisely this last key point, along with the accuracy and consistency benefits of not cocking that set me on this approach.
		
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 Sev122, I checked this out, not another swing thought! or not a thought as it seems to be.   I felt the videos would be more beneficial from a side position rather than behind to clarify the straight wrists, I appreciate it was only a promo vid.


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## sev112 (Nov 19, 2010)

I felt the videos would be more beneficial from a side position rather than behind to clarify the straight wrists, I appreciate it was only a promo vid.
		
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Hi Goldenbare
Noted and i agree a side on vid would be very good, as wuold be an overhead one, and actually if you examine several of the video swings on the site i am sure that he is getting some wrist cock in there because it just is difficult in nature to not do so; 

i haven't just taken his thoughts/theory on blindly.  I am a professional engineer who specialises in theoretical mechanics so i get a bit of a weird buzz from analysing the physic, biomechanics (and statistics) of golf, and i just found that this idea clicked with a lot of the thoughts i had, and has done me very well in the past year so far. 


Conversely, if anyone is interested in a really good (but highly theoretical) analysis of the swing and the benefits of really well timed wrist cock, then look up Theo Jorgensen's book "The physics of Golf".  He certainly espouses the importance and benefit of wrist ciock at the right time , and most importantly of just letting it happen in the backswing and downswing.  (he also points out some flaws/concerns in club fitting which are quite sensible).


There you go - i can see both sides of the argument


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## JustOne (Nov 19, 2010)

I am a professional engineer who specialises in theoretical mechanics so i get a bit of a weird buzz from analysing the physic, biomechanics (and statistics) of golf, and i just found that this idea clicked with a lot of the thoughts i had,
		
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Well you got me interested! You don't think that guy cocks his wrists at all?


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## goldenbare (Nov 19, 2010)

[/QUOTE] then look up Theo Jorgensen's book "The physics of Golf".

[/QUOTE]
 sev, I was brass instrumental teacher and tried to take on the "physiology of Brass playing" by one of the leading players/teachers. Didn't understand a word of it. Frustratingly I found the best players were the ones that did it without thinking about it, just like golf.


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## sev112 (Nov 19, 2010)

You don't think that guy cocks his wrists at all?
		
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i think he does, but a lot less than most, and the actual point he makes is that (even if he does cock on the backswing) he suggests that he doesn't release on teh downswing.  Which is a subtle difference to what we are talking about in teh thread in terms of cocking on the backswing.

Anyway, i'm not exactly an apostle of the theory, just that his system started me thinking about the problems with cockinga nd release and it went from there.
		
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## JustOne (Nov 19, 2010)

You don't think that guy cocks his wrists at all?
		
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			i think he does, but a lot less than most, and the actual point he makes is that (even if he does cock on the backswing) he suggests that he doesn't release on teh downswing.
		
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Ah right, well I don't release on the downswing either.

During the swing I maintain the angle I created at address... well it actually INCREASES (lag) which means that the wrists MUST actually cock albeit less than someone might think they need to.

The club 'releases' after the ball but it is an extension of the arms and not a collapsing of the left wrist.

In summary it's not a flip release or a rolling of the wrists, it's an extension into/through the ball.

I quite like this vid... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cyWGHfudzs I _think_ that's where you're coming from?


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## sev112 (Nov 21, 2010)

During the swing I maintain the angle I created at address... well it actually INCREASES (lag) which means that the wrists MUST actually cock albeit less than someone might think they need to.

The club 'releases' after the ball but it is an extension of the arms and not a collapsing of the left wrist.

In summary it's not a flip release or a rolling of the wrists, it's an extension into/through the ball.
		
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yep - i can certainly understand that  - i think it just shows there are several ways of swinging the club and hitting the ball


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