# I had a lesson today and...



## RangeMonkey (Dec 17, 2019)

it felt miraculous. 

In my last lesson we focussed on timing of hip rotation, and club head lag. It added a good 20 yards to all my irons...when I hit it well.

But I went from hitting it well (enough for me) about 70% of the time, all the way down to about 20% of the time. 

In frustration I booked another lesson after just a couple of weeks. Within five minutes he identified the issue, and inside another ten minutes had identified an approach that resonated with me enough to get my hit rate back up to more like 50%, whilst preserving the distance. 

I’ve come away knowing what to work on now to keep the improvement going. 

Desperation to delight in under an hour 🙂


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## Parsaregood (Dec 17, 2019)

I had a lesson today aswell, trying to keep better connection between the arms to the top of the backswing, helps keep them in front of me on the way down. Also on a mission to increase my swing speed from 113mph to 120mph over the next couple of months, have ordered the swing speed training shafts so will see how we go. My aim is to have it topping out around 120 but to swing easy and still be about 116. My coach thinks I should be able to do it without a great deal of trouble


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## pendodave (Dec 17, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			I had a lesson today aswell, trying to keep better connection between the arms to the top of the backswing, helps keep them in front of me on the way down. Also on a mission to increase my swing speed from 113mph to 120mph over the next couple of months, have ordered the swing speed training shafts so will see how we go. My aim is to have it topping out around 120 but to swing easy and still be about 116. My coach thinks I should be able to do it without a great deal of trouble
		
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Would be interested in feedback on the speed training. Although looking at the numbers, we might not have that much in common...


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## Parsaregood (Dec 17, 2019)

pendodave said:



			Would be interested in feedback on the speed training. Although looking at the numbers, we might not have that much in common...
		
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I'm told that the overspeed training is a pretty fail safe method of increasing speed from 5-10% depending on the person and how dedicated they are to the training. I really dont think you could not get faster if you put in the exercises, so worth it I'd say.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 18, 2019)

Went to the range last night. Looked back at some video footage of my last lesson a few months ago and noticed my posture was more slumped again. An old habit that has crept back in. Stood taller and worked on making a full shoulder turn and releasing as we worked on. What a change. Much more consistent again. Hopefully the course will be open although given the rainfall due I have grave doubts it'll be open by the weekend and I need to see if I can take the range stuff back out when I play


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## Deleted member 3432 (Dec 18, 2019)

I had a lesson on Monday. Not played much the last few months due to a stiff lower back which is slowly improving.

Truly shocking to look how bad my swing has become looking at it on video. Huge early extension, stood up tall at impact with near vertical shaft. No wonder I can't hit more than a couple of straight shots in a row.

A lot of work required was the pro's remark!

Worked on improving hip turn on backswing, squatting into impact and making a positive turn through. Obviously felt awful buts looked way better on video.

Could barely make a decent contact but that is not the point at this stage. Club position on downswing is way from the outside but we will work on that further down the line as there was more than enough to focus on in a single session.

Going to put some hard work and effort into sorting my swing out once and for all, the last 2 or 3 seasons have been crap and instead of my best being capable of breaking 70 I can barely break 80.


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## Kennysarmy (Dec 18, 2019)

Had my 5th of 10 winter lesson last week, things are really going well, lots of positives from the weekend game - hitting plenty fairways with confidence off the tee.

Lesson here:


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## Parsaregood (Dec 18, 2019)

Kennysarmy said:



			Had my 5th of 10 winter lesson last week, things are really going well, lots of positives from the weekend game - hitting plenty fairways with confidence off the tee.

Lesson here: 







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Backswing looks decent, I'd say though even the driver is slightly behind you when its parallel to the ground and theres quite alot of separation between your elbows at the top which is why the club is a little laid off. Looks good though, I think your downswing needs alot of work, my feeling is it would be easier to get it started on a better path if the club was more on line at the top. Plenty of drills you can do though to get the club moving on a better path down. I'm sure your pro is working with you on these things and even if you concentrated solely on shallowing out transition you would hit much better shots a higher percentage of the time which is what it's all about. Good work though!


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## Kennysarmy (Dec 18, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			Backswing looks decent, I'd say though even the driver is slightly behind you when its parallel to the ground and theres quite alot of separation between your elbows at the top which is why the club is a little laid off. Looks good though, I think your downswing needs alot of work, my feeling is it would be easier to get it started on a better path if the club was more on line at the top. Plenty of drills you can do though to get the club moving on a better path down. I'm sure your pro is working with you on these things and even if you concentrated solely on shallowing out transition you would hit much better shots a higher percentage of the time which is what it's all about. Good work though!
		
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Thanks, working at the range to get the feeling my hands pass through a circle on the back-swing and through the same circle on the down-swing, this coupled with better club face control....(bad habit is letting it slip a tad 'open') ....Work in progress


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## chrisd (Dec 18, 2019)

Strikes me as a really good pro Kennysarmy. A good and thorough explanation  and swing looks good.  I'm having a 45 min lesson tomorrow, I hope it's as productive as yours


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 19, 2019)

chrisd said:



			Strikes me as a really good pro Kennysarmy. A good and thorough explanation  and swing looks good.  I'm having a 45 min lesson tomorrow, I hope it's as productive as yours
		
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Not sure 45 minutes will be enough. Surely that'll just scratch the surface of all that ails your game


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## chrisd (Dec 19, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not sure 45 minutes will be enough. Surely that'll just scratch the surface of all that ails your game
		
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I've been having two 45 minute lessons per month for a year and have just gone now to one per month until the season starts.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 19, 2019)

chrisd said:



			I've been having two 45 minute lessons per month for a year and have just gone now to one per month until the season starts.
		
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Good man. Only joking and hope you're seeing the benefits when you play. I went the other way in 2019 and really scaled back the number of lessons and tried to take what I was learning onto the course.


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## chrisd (Dec 19, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Good man. Only joking and hope you're seeing the benefits when you play. I went the other way in 2019 and really scaled back the number of lessons and tried to take what I was learning onto the course.
		
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Cheers Homer.  The lesson today was with the driver which hasn't behaved over the year, we made some big changes which made other changes, and it certainly looks better but will take some time to bed in


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 19, 2019)

chrisd said:



			Cheers Homer.  The lesson today was with the driver which hasn't behaved over the year, we made some big changes which made other changes, and it certainly looks better but will take some time to bed in
		
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Is it worth an early bet on you for H4H then?


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## chrisd (Dec 19, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Is it worth an early bet on you for H4H then?
		
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Doubt it can be won twice 😉


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## AdamW (Dec 19, 2019)

chrisd said:



			I've been having two 45 minute lessons per month for a year and have just gone now to one per month until the season starts.
		
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Wow that is a lot of lessons!

How much do you practice between lessons?

Currently having one lesson a month shared with partner to keep costs down so get 20-25 mins. Practice wise then go on the range at least 1-2 times per week and try to implement it on course twice before going back. Wondering if i need to bump the lesson frequency up though as still struggling with hitting irons right a lot


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## richart (Dec 19, 2019)

chrisd said:



			Doubt it can be won twice 😉
		
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Can’t believe I will see another miracle in my life time.


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## chrisd (Dec 19, 2019)

AdamW said:



			Wow that is a lot of lessons!

How much do you practice between lessons?

Currently having one lesson a month shared with partner to keep costs down so get 20-25 mins. Practice wise then go on the range at least 1-2 times per week and try to implement it on course twice before going back. Wondering if i need to bump the lesson frequency up though as still struggling with hitting irons right a lot[/QUO TE]

I play usually twice a week and hit balls on the range twice as well. But I am trying to change a fair few things in my swing and the extra lessons help to ingrain them. Age is a major consideration in my decision as I'll soon get to the stage where I'll probably start to lose distance so I'm looking to improve the technical side of the swing and still hope that the work I'm doing will help get a single figure handicap eventually (at least for a few days)
		
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## Kennysarmy (Jan 7, 2020)

Lesson 6 of 10 😁

Things going well.

All my recent rounds I've played very solid golf....


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## AdamW (Jan 7, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:








Lesson 6 of 10 😁

Things going well.

All my recent rounds I've played very solid golf....
		
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your coach sounds really good !


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## RangeMonkey (Jan 7, 2020)

Had my lesson today.

I‘d managed to find another way to be massively inconsistent, which the pro instantly identified, and we spent the hour trying to get the change working on a few different clubs.

So I now expect to hit the ball ok for a week or so, at which point I’ll develop another fault, and spend 2-3 weeks of misery before my next lesson - at which he’ll identify another new fault, and so it will go on until the end of days.


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## Jigger (Jan 7, 2020)

RangeMonkey said:



			Had my lesson today.

I‘d managed to find another way to be massively inconsistent, which the pro instantly identified, and we spent the hour trying to get the change working on a few different clubs.

So I now expect to hit the ball ok for a week or so, at which point I’ll develop another fault, and spend 2-3 weeks of misery before my next lesson - at which he’ll identify another new fault, and so it will go on until the end of days.
		
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It’s will click eventually mate so stick with it. However if you fail to see progress over a few lessons, be willing to maybe change coaches. I say a few as we all go backwards at times having lessons The key is knowing the difference between a step back and just lacking progress.


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## Jigger (Jan 7, 2020)

Parsaregood said:



			I'm told that the overspeed training is a pretty fail safe method of increasing speed from 5-10% depending on the person and how dedicated they are to the training. I really dont think you could not get faster if you put in the exercises, so worth it I'd say.
		
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I’d be very interested to as I’ve been thinking of getting some myself but including the radar, approx £325 = a lot of lessons.


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## Parsaregood (Jan 7, 2020)

Jigger said:



			I’d be very interested to as I’ve been thinking of getting some myself but including the radar, approx £325 = a lot of lessons.
		
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The swing speed golf training aid is £118. You dont need a radar, it provides you with the list of exercises to do increasing the difficulty/length of time over a few months. You will see the results on course whether you have a speed measuring device or not, that to me just seems like a waste of money as it serves no real purpose.


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## garyinderry (Jan 7, 2020)

Crossfield seems to have got his swing speed up this last while.  He used to top out around 106. Now hes up at 112.


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## Junior (Jan 8, 2020)

garyinderry said:



			Crossfield seems to have got his swing speed up this last while.  He used to top out around 106. Now hes up at 112.
		
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It's those new aerodynamic drivers


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## garyinderry (Jan 8, 2020)

Junior said:



			It's those new aerodynamic drivers 

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I need something like that.   I must be the only sucker losing yards these days  lol


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## albie999 (Jan 8, 2020)

Am thinking of getting some lessons starting the end of this month as well.  The pro I am thinking of, charges £50 for an hour, or £30 for 30 mins, and has access to full trackman/sim, so is able to give me the full data I need. 

Just wondered, for my first lesson, would you go for the full hour, or just the 1/2 hour to start with?


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## pendodave (Jan 8, 2020)

albie999 said:



			Am thinking of getting some lessons starting the end of this month as well.  The pro I am thinking of, charges £50 for an hour, or £30 for 30 mins, and has access to full trackman/sim, so is able to give me the full data I need.

Just wondered, for my first lesson, would you go for the full hour, or just the 1/2 hour to start with?
		
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If I was seeing someone for the first time, I'd probably go for an hour first up and then dial it back to 30 mins for any subsequent ones. An hour gives you plenty of time to have a nice chat about where your whole game is, what you want to work on etc etc. Also gives time for him to see everything from putter up to driver so that he can hatch something of a plan. It's nice not to feel rushed in this scenario.
Although I've never done it, the best first session is probably too play 3 holes with him so he can see what happens on the course.


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## Scoobiesnax (Jan 8, 2020)

Had a lesson last night - been a very long time since I had the last one.  Got me going back to basics with my take away - I am going back too shallow which resulted in me going over the top and being very steep coming through to hit the ball leading to fats and slicing!

Thankfully sorted it out as best you can with one lesson and gave me a drill I can do indoors; holding my seven iron half way down the shaft and practicing hitting certain point in my take away to make sure I don't go from out to in in my down swing.  Gave me something to look forward to do again!


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## Daveg99 (Jan 8, 2020)

I only had one lesson previously as I was struggling with distance and seemed to hit almost every club the same distance (luckily that’s now sorted) but I’ve just booked 1 a month until May so hopefully get me to the next level. Definitely the way to go for long term improvement


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## Jigger (Jan 8, 2020)

Parsaregood said:



			The swing speed golf training aid is £118. You dont need a radar, it provides you with the list of exercises to do increasing the difficulty/length of time over a few months. You will see the results on course whether you have a speed measuring device or not, that to me just seems like a waste of money as it serves no real purpose.
		
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Yeah I get your point on the radar as superspeed want you to do everything full tilt anyway. I have a skytrak which I could use to monitor club head improvement.  

The thing that stumps me about swing speed is that the weights are so different to superspeed who claim this spent significant money perfecting their product (or marketing! You choose!). I’m watching a mark crossfield series intently as he is using swing speed, just to see if he make real improvements.


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## Springveldt (Jan 9, 2020)

Parsaregood said:



			The swing speed golf training aid is £118. You dont need a radar, it provides you with the list of exercises to do increasing the difficulty/length of time over a few months. You will see the results on course whether you have a speed measuring device or not, that to me just seems like a waste of money as it serves no real purpose.
		
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Although you don't need a radar I'd really recommend one to track your progress. I've got the Superspeed sticks (the 3 individual shafts that are red, green and blue) with the blue radar and I find the radar a really valuable tool in pushing myself to go faster. Some swings feel fast but then you look down at the radar and you are actually 5mph slower. Being able to track your speed turns it into a bit of a game as well as you push each session to get faster.

I found that doing them 3 times per week was best, if I tried to do them each night I wasn't giving my body enough time to recover (which sounds stupid since it's just swinging sticks for 15 minutes) but doing them 2 nights in a row the 2nd night was always slower.

I only did Phase 1 last year of the training and my driver has went from about 98mph to 104mph on Trackman and can top it out at 109mph but contact is usually garbage at that speed. I only did it for about 8 weeks last summer and haven't swung them since September but I don't feel I've lost any distance. I was at the range yesterday for the first time in 3 months (and I've only played 2 rounds since the start of October) but I was still carrying my driver to the back green as I did back in September.

I'm about to start them again for the upcoming season as it wasn't the brightest idea to start in the middle of the season since it does knock your timing to hell for a few weeks.

@Jigger I'd highly recommend them, they just flat out work.


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## Parsaregood (Jan 9, 2020)

Springveldt said:



			Although you don't need a radar I'd really recommend one to track your progress. I've got the Superspeed sticks (the 3 individual shafts that are red, green and blue) with the blue radar and I find the radar a really valuable tool in pushing myself to go faster. Some swings feel fast but then you look down at the radar and you are actually 5mph slower. Being able to track your speed turns it into a bit of a game as well as you push each session to get faster.

I found that doing them 3 times per week was best, if I tried to do them each night I wasn't giving my body enough time to recover (which sounds stupid since it's just swinging sticks for 15 minutes) but doing them 2 nights in a row the 2nd night was always slower.

I only did Phase 1 last year of the training and my driver has went from about 98mph to 104mph on Trackman and can top it out at 109mph but contact is usually garbage at that speed. I only did it for about 8 weeks last summer and haven't swung them since September but I don't feel I've lost any distance. I was at the range yesterday for the first time in 3 months (and I've only played 2 rounds since the start of October) but I was still carrying my driver to the back green as I did back in September.

I'm about to start them again for the upcoming season as it wasn't the brightest idea to start in the middle of the season since it does knock your timing to hell for a few weeks.

@Jigger I'd highly recommend them, they just flat out work.
		
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I use the superspeed golf aid, I just do the exercises as instructed and swing as hard as possible on every swing. I have access to trackman when I see my coach every 3/4 weeks so can track progress on there. I'm looking to get my driver average speed up to 118 from 111 with a driver. Definitely hitting it further after only around 3 weeks or so


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## RangeMonkey (Jan 9, 2020)

First range session after Tuesdays lesson, today. The signs are good...


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## Jigger (Jan 9, 2020)

Springveldt said:



			Although you don't need a radar I'd really recommend one to track your progress. I've got the Superspeed sticks (the 3 individual shafts that are red, green and blue) with the blue radar and I find the radar a really valuable tool in pushing myself to go faster. Some swings feel fast but then you look down at the radar and you are actually 5mph slower. Being able to track your speed turns it into a bit of a game as well as you push each session to get faster.

I found that doing them 3 times per week was best, if I tried to do them each night I wasn't giving my body enough time to recover (which sounds stupid since it's just swinging sticks for 15 minutes) but doing them 2 nights in a row the 2nd night was always slower.

I only did Phase 1 last year of the training and my driver has went from about 98mph to 104mph on Trackman and can top it out at 109mph but contact is usually garbage at that speed. I only did it for about 8 weeks last summer and haven't swung them since September but I don't feel I've lost any distance. I was at the range yesterday for the first time in 3 months (and I've only played 2 rounds since the start of October) but I was still carrying my driver to the back green as I did back in September.

I'm about to start them again for the upcoming season as it wasn't the brightest idea to start in the middle of the season since it does knock your timing to hell for a few weeks.

@Jigger I'd highly recommend them, they just flat out work.
		
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Thanks that’s really informative.


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## Jigger (Jan 9, 2020)

RangeMonkey said:



			First range session after Tuesdays lesson, today. The signs are good...
		
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Excellent! Keep at it mate.


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## Parsaregood (Jan 9, 2020)

RangeMonkey said:



			First range session after Tuesdays lesson, today. The signs are good...
		
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I seen my coach on saturday, making a change to my backswing to get the club more on line at the top as I've been very slightly laid off for a while leading to a little inconsistency in my longer game. I spent 5 hours after the lesson n saturday hitting balls, an hour and a half on sunday, hit 200 balls monday, hit 200 tuesday, 100yesterday and spent an hour and a half this afternoon. we are getting there now 😂👍


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## Jigger (Jan 9, 2020)

Got my next lesson tomorrow. After 5yrs of hitting a slice with my driver, my new coach has completely fixed it With a very simple explanation. I've had 4 lessons with him now I’m going to ask for an assessment on my progress against the initial things we’ve been working on before we move on.


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## garyinderry (Jan 9, 2020)

Parsaregood said:



			I seen my coach on saturday, making a change to my backswing to get the club more on line at the top as I've been very slightly laid off for a while leading to a little inconsistency in my longer game. I spent 5 hours after the lesson n saturday hitting balls, an hour and a half on sunday, hit 200 balls monday, hit 200 tuesday, 100yesterday and spent an hour and a half this afternoon. we are getting there now 😂👍
		
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My back is in bits reading this.  Lol


I applaud your dedication      have you got a video of your swing?


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Jan 9, 2020)

Always engage an elderly instructor.
Young ones don't understand reduced flexibility.


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## RangeMonkey (Jan 10, 2020)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			Always engage an elderly instructor.
Young ones don't understand reduced flexibility.
		
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I think they can understand it, but can’t have a real appreciation of what it’s really like. 

My instructor is three years older than me (which makes me worry he may retire soon!), and I think he really gets where I’m at. 

Having said that, he’s still fit as a fiddle and playing off scratch!


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 16, 2020)

Had a lesson on Tuesday despite the strong winds. No major changes aside from working on a better takeaway as I'd lapsed into an old fault of picking the club up quickly on the way back. Worked on a wider takeaway (imaging brushing a leaf away or pushing a ball backwards). Also worked on better arm rotation (and so a lower exit) and hip clearance. All good and really a case of tidying up rather than really changing. Some shots were funny, having felt as though I'd crush it and as per the pros instructions only to see it hit by a 30+ mph gust and drop or get blown way off line. 

Had a range session last night and starting to find some consistency especially off the tee with driver and so feel as though progress made and glad it was a tweak rather than big change again.


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## sussexhacker (Jan 16, 2020)

Had an assessment of my swing first time I’ve ever been to a pro for advice and it turns out i don’t do anything right.

My grip was completely wrong
My swing is aggressively steep 
I don’t turn at all 

This is why I should never have tried to teach myself how to swing, if I didn’t even have something as basic as the grip right it was never going to work


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## albie999 (Jan 16, 2020)

I have booked a lesson for Wednesday next week, an hour session .... so hopefully I find out all the stuff I am doing right ...... although, I am thinking the list of what I am doing wrong will be larger ;-)


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## AdamW (Jan 16, 2020)

Do you guys think a lesson every two weeks for 20 minutes is too much ?

i would go to the range 3-4 times and out the course 1-2 times to practice changes inbetween


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## Parsaregood (Jan 16, 2020)

AdamW said:



			Do you guys think a lesson every two weeks for 20 minutes is too much ?

i would go to the range 3-4 times and out the course 1-2 times to practice changes inbetween
		
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I'm getting a lesson every 10 days for an hour at the moment as I'm significantly changing my swing. I do practice an average of 2 hours a day though, at weekends spending 4/5 hours hitting balls in order to make the changes i need to before April


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## pendodave (Jan 16, 2020)

AdamW said:



			Do you guys think a lesson every two weeks for 20 minutes is too much ?

i would go to the range 3-4 times and out the course 1-2 times to practice changes inbetween
		
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20 minutes seems very short, I normally talk for at least that long about how s**** my game is...
I think it depends a lot on how experienced a player you are. If you have been playing for a while and are familiar with drills and how to practice, a month between would be plenty. If you're a beginner, it might need to be sooner to make sure you're proceeding correctly.
A long time ago I had some lessons with a guy who did a tuesday night clinic at the range where anyone who had a lesson with him could pay a fiver for some range balls and he would wander asking and check that everything was ok. A good system.

** Edit** parsaregood is a good and experienced player and his advice just goes too show how each case should be treated on is merits!


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## FAB90 (Jan 16, 2020)

Had my first lesson on Monday changed a few things in my swing but felt good and was hitting the ball well! Then yesterday went for 9 holes and could hardly hit the ball hopefully a range session will help a bit as I have a golf outing on Sunday.


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## inc0gnito (Jan 16, 2020)

Has anyone ever had a lesson and the pro says let’s not change anything? 😂


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 16, 2020)

inc0gnito said:



			Has anyone ever had a lesson and the pro says let’s not change anything? 😂
		
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No but what I really love about the guy I've been using for the last few years is the changes are usually very small and about working with what I have already and making small changes, usually to posture or tempo. I never come away thinking I've no idea how I'll implement a change and usually after a bucket or two at the range it blends in and I'm confident to take it to the course. Of course once I get there it doesn't always translate immediately and there is usually some bad scores before forward progress. I've also reduced the amount of lessons I've had. I had 6 (for price of 5) and as I spent 2 (an hours duration) in one hit on the short game it took me all year to use the other 4. I've waited for when I really needed a check up to get me on track. I think not having too many changes too often to worry about on the course has helped me play far more consistently.


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## Parsaregood (Jan 16, 2020)

inc0gnito said:



			Has anyone ever had a lesson and the pro says let’s not change anything? 😂
		
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To be honest I've been to a couple of guys in the past and it was almost like I was paying them to watch me hit balls


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## JamesR (Jan 16, 2020)

inc0gnito said:



			Has anyone ever had a lesson and the pro says let’s not change anything? 😂
		
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Yes, when I was a kid.
Problem was however that there was plenty that could have been changed. In the end I just developed a lot of errors which have plagued my game ever since.
There wasn’t nearly so much junior coaching back then, unfortunately ☹️


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## ScienceBoy (Feb 5, 2020)

Went in shanking through a warmup so not looking forward to it.

Was such a simple fix

1. Was to take the club away more on the inside, I was going outside and loop onto plane at the start of the lesson.
2. Keep hands and arms connected to body so I didn't push them out to the ball once takeaway was on plane.

Those two things took me from a good place where I hit the ball a bit high, straight and short with tendencies to lose my timing, to a good place with a simpler swing and a bucket of confidence.

Parting comment was "you can be much better than just a bogey golfer", will take that one to heart as I try to recapture the magic that got me to breaking 80 6 years ago (OMG that long ago? Flipping eck!!).


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 6, 2020)

Recommended the guy I use to a PP the other week. He went and saw him for a lesson and I played with the guy last week. What a revelation and only a few tweaks to grip and posture. He had been in the real golfing doldrums and was talking about jacking it in (at least for a while) but he was like a different guy on the course at the weekend. Proof (to me at least) that lessons do work and even small changes can make a massive difference


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## RangeMonkey (Feb 23, 2020)

Since my last post on here I’ve had a couple of lessons. You may remember that I was so frustrated that I was giving up. Well, after hitting nearly 900 balls over a 5 week period, and making good contact with less than 2 dozen of them, I did give up... for about 3 weeks.
Then I decided I couldn’t let it beat me. I went back for another lesson to find out what the issue was (or issues were). The pro pointed out two things: my ball position had crept backwards at address, and I had started to sway away from the target on the backswing.

After a couple more range sessions, I was unable to remove the sway. At the range, mirrors are behind the stalls. I would turn to face the mirror, practice the backswing with my head and hips not moving back, then turn to address the ball...and immediately sway into the backswing, resulting in poor (if any!) contact again.

The pro had suggested I video the swing from face on, so I could see what I was doing it. But once I saw it on video, it was too late, I’d already done it.

So, what finally cured me was a trip to Clubhouse golf to pickup a convex mirror with a thick red line down the centre. You place this just a few inches beyond the ball, and you can see your entire body, head to toe whilst at address. Because it’s so close to the ball, you can see your reflection whilst looking at the ball in the backswing, and it’s just a tiny glance up to look in detail.

I took a day off work, went to the range at 8AM and bought 120 balls. I spent 6 hours working through those balls (with a couple of breaks). Starting really, really slowly, with half swings, I took half a dozen practice swings before each strike, making sure the red line stayed right down my midline on the backswing, and not hitting a ball until I’d managed at least 6 repetitions without a ball, where I was happy.

With lots of breaks, and returning to half speed, half swings a few times, by the end of six hours, I was able to hit the last 10 balls really sweet, with just a single practice swing before each.

Two days later I went back and did the same thing in 3 hours with 80 balls.

Two more days later I went back and bought 40 balls. I spent half an hour using 10 to warm up, and an hour hitting the last 30. I mishit 2 balls out of the 40, and they would have both been “ok” for me at this stage on a course (thinned to about 80 yards with a 7 iron).

Since then, I’ve transformed my practice routine at the range. I always put the mirror down now, so that I can do random checks on myself from face-on, as well as with the down the line mirror the range provides. Instead of hitting 120 balls in 90 minutes, I now hit 80 balls in 90-120 minutes.

I’ve had another lesson last week, and the pro and I were both happy enough with my irons that we started work with my 3 wood. Touch wood (pun intended), it’s going ok.

To be honest, I wasn’t prepared for this kind of occurrence. I know people here said it was normal, and that it can happen to anyone, and I accept that now. At the time, it looked like there was no way out of shanking, topping, toeing and fatting every single swing, and I just couldn’t get a handle on it at all.

At least now, if (when) it happens again, I know the level of effort, physical and mental, required to put things back together.

Two months after this whole episode started, I’m finally hitting my irons about as well as I was three months ago, but only with continued levels of focus way beyond what I seemed to require in my first few months of playing. I still have a long way to go before my swing will feel as natural as it used to, if ever?

But at least I can finally hit the darned ball!


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## Imurg (Feb 23, 2020)

GIVING UP IS NOT AN OPTION!


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## larmen (Feb 23, 2020)

I took a day off work, went to the range at 8AM and bought 120 balls. I spent 6 hours working through those balls (with a couple of breaks).
		
Click to expand...

You might not have the talent of a tour pro, but you certainly have the dedication!


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## inc0gnito (Feb 23, 2020)

RangeMonkey said:



			I did give up... for about 3 weeks.
Then I decided I couldn’t let it beat me. I went back...
		
Click to expand...

You can’t leave. She won’t let you. She’ll never let you.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 23, 2020)

inc0gnito said:



			You can’t leave. She won’t let you. She’ll never let you.
		
Click to expand...

You can check out anytime you like but you can neverleave


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## RangeMonkey (Mar 10, 2020)

Another lesson again this evening. started with a review of 7 iron, 5 hybrid and 3 wood. Hit them all well, so he asked if there was a club I struggled with. 

6 iron. I’ve never managed to get a decent strike with it. So out it came. A couple of swings, and he suggested I move the ball an inch and half up in the stance. Problem solved!

So, then he says, “Let’s get the driver out!”

That’s the first time!

I’ve played with it a couple of times on the range, but other than that, I’ve left it alone. 

Hit a few without any guidance (other than setup), and pretty consistently hit a pushed fade/cut. 

He explained that shape came from an open club face, with an out-to-in swing oath. So he reminded me how I spent couple of weeks working on an in-to-our path with irons, bringing the club down the inside at the start of the downswing. 

The last few shots started slightly right, and instead of fading further right, stayed straight. 

That’s where we left it for this week. If I can get a straight push consistent for the next lesson, we’ll look at closing the face. 

At the moment, the driver is also going pretty much the same distance as the 3 wood, but I’ll worry about that later. 

When I started with the pro last August (first time I hit a golf ball was in his bay at the range), he said the program would be to start with irons, work up the bag on the range over winter, then look at shortgame and putting when the whether improves. 

I was out injured for about 5 weeks, so given that, it looks like we’re in good shape on the schedule. One or two more sessions with driver, then out to the short game area for a few sessions, then the first on-course lesson at the start of May!


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## Jensen (Mar 10, 2020)

Sounds very promising, good detailed write up.
Certainly going in the right direction with what seems like a good pro


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## ferenezejohn (Mar 12, 2020)

Please



Parsaregood said:



			To be honest I've been to a couple of guys in the past and it was almost like I was paying them to watch me hit balls
		
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I spotted on one of your earlier posts  you were getting your swing speed up to 120 then wanted to settle it at 116 for playing.
Now the average speed of the PGA tour is 114 with about 20 of the big hitters who can crank it up to 120
So maybe that's why they just watch you hit balls.
Obviously I don't know you but you seem to work hard at the game and must be very good player so good luck to you.


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## Parsaregood (Mar 12, 2020)

ferenezejohn said:



			Please
I spotted on one of your earlier posts  you were getting your swing speed up to 120 then wanted to settle it at 116 for playing.
Now the average speed of the PGA tour is 114 with about 20 of the big hitters who can crank it up to 120
So maybe that's why they just watch you hit balls.
Obviously I don't know you but you seem to work hard at the game and must be very good player so good luck to you.
		
Click to expand...

Yes been plugging away pretty hard over winter, swingspeed is 114 on an average not really trying  too hard, can get it to 117 but cant really sustain that for more than 4 or 5 swings. Made a few changes to my pivot which helped gain me a few mph. Hopefully we can do a bit of damage this season and pick up a few things. Edward trophy will be the first big event  then ayrshire strokeplay  the next day both 36 holers


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## ScienceBoy (Jul 14, 2020)

Well I am good to here...

At least I’m only 5 degrees on the inside and less than a degree up at impact. Much better than the 7 inside and 2+ up I was!

Working on making is less than 4 from the inside and slightly negative at impact.


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## Dan2501 (Jul 15, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283118377863647234
Not quite a lesson, but saw this on Twitter. Just given it a go on the lounge carpet and boy does it free up my release and help me strike my putts better. Gonna keep using this in practice and maybe give it a go on the course in a social round on Friday. Padraig's delivered some quality tips since Lockdown started.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 31, 2020)

Just had a lesson this morning, one in a sequence I am having (thank you Father Christmas). More positives to take. Apparently my upper body moves are very good, nothing to alter. Unfortunately they are not in time with my lower body, hence an element of spraying about. Half of the lesson today was to quieten down the lower body to bring the timing together. A slower and smoother movement, less Bryson, more Ernie . A golf ball under the ball of my right foot was the technique to help get the feeling right. Very positive, I just need to work on it.

Interestingly enough, after seeing me hit a few shots at the beginning the pro asked if I had lower back problems after playing. Yes, yes, yes. This could help to reduce this as there would be less fighting of parts of the body.

Second part of the lesson was to use the same swing and things I have learnt and put it into place with my driving. He is trying to get my swing path pushing through to 1 'O clock. It feels very odd but it is something to persevere with. I am leaving the face open and pushing it right so part of it was to close the face slightly at address and then swing as requested. A bit mind blowing and am slightly nervous to try that part on the course tomorrow. My brain says it will cause hooks although that was not the case during the lesson.

A good lesson all round though.


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## Jensen (Jul 31, 2020)

Lord Tyrion, I think you will need to aim down the right hand of the fairway allowing for a draw


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## ScienceBoy (Jul 31, 2020)

To build on my lesson I’ve been using the tip both Chris Ryan and Rick Sheil(d)s describe where you put a tee at 45* angle aiming backwards and imadgine you are hitting it into the ground.

Got great compression, low side spin and my distance is coming back to me now too! Pretty sure I’m much less from the inside now as I can really tell when I do get stuck inside.

Broken 30 on back to back rounds at the par 3, should have been better as neither had a birdie despite at least two good shouts each (over reading the borrow 😡)


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 31, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Lord Tyrion, I think you will need to aim down the right hand of the fairway allowing for a draw
		
Click to expand...

That's what the pro was going for. As someone who normally hits a gentle fade it is a change of tack that will be a bit intimidating at first. It gave me more distance and less ballooning so it would improve me off the tee. I'll be nervous tomorrow on the 1st though 😬


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## Jensen (Jul 31, 2020)

I too had a lesson, be it 4 weeks ago. Pro said grip was weak wants at least 3 knuckles showing. He too said aim right. Far better ball flight, more distance and penetrating flight.
Other issue was taking the club outside on the way back.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 31, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Just had a lesson this morning, one in a sequence I am having (thank you Father Christmas). More positives to take. Apparently my upper body moves are very good, nothing to alter. Unfortunately they are not in time with my lower body, hence an element of spraying about. Half of the lesson today was to quieten down the lower body to bring the timing together. A slower and smoother movement, less Bryson, more Ernie . A golf ball under the ball of my right foot was the technique to help get the feeling right. Very positive, I just need to work on it.

Interestingly enough, after seeing me hit a few shots at the beginning the pro asked if I had lower back problems after playing. Yes, yes, yes. This could help to reduce this as there would be less fighting of parts of the body.

Second part of the lesson was to use the same swing and things I have learnt and put it into place with my driving. He is trying to get my swing path pushing through to 1 'O clock. It feels very odd but it is something to persevere with. I am leaving the face open and pushing it right so part of it was to close the face slightly at address and then swing as requested. A bit mind blowing and am slightly nervous to try that part on the course tomorrow. My brain says it will cause hooks although that was not the case during the lesson.

A good lesson all round though.
		
Click to expand...

Sounds great. I have seen a few videos online about swinging to 1 o'clock (Danny Maude definitely has one and I'm sure I've seen another). On the subject of lower body I've started to get the hips gently pushing to target as the start of the downswing to shallow the club and since doing so have been playing a lot more consistently


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## BrianM (Jan 10, 2022)

Thought I'd revive this thread....
Had my 5th lesson now since October while I'm at work and todays the first day I've really felt all the work is paying off.
Took 25 balls to give myself a warm up before I started but my coach came out and was having a look at my swing and I never put a foot wrong.
Lesson wasn't quite as good, still a slight struggle transferring my weight to my left side, have got a drill to work on it though.
Going to play the 9 hole course at Fraserburgh on Wednesday when I change from night to day shift.
Also going to get a new driver this week as I have a dent on the crown of my own one.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 10, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Thought I'd revive this thread....
Had my 5th lesson now since October while I'm at work and todays the first day I've really felt all the work is paying off.
Took 25 balls to give myself a warm up before I started but my coach came out and was having a look at my swing and I never put a foot wrong.
Lesson wasn't quite as good, still a slight struggle transferring my weight to my left side, have got a drill to work on it though.
Going to play the 9 hole course at Fraserburgh on Wednesday when I change from night to day shift.
Also going to get a new driver this week as I have a dent on the crown of my own one.
		
Click to expand...

Good to see it is starting to pay off. I have a batch of 7 (for the price of 6) to use in 2022 so will use 2 (so a one hour lesson) in the Spring to refresh the short game. Other than that I'll use them to either fix faults or try and kick the game forward and get the handicap down. I'm still a big fan of lessons and still think my teaching pro can get my handicap right down. Felt in the limited competitive golf we had in 2021 (although my club did really well to get as much played as possible) I played better than I scored so something I need to address with him about how to score ugly


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## SimonC (Jan 10, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Good to see it is starting to pay off. I have a batch of 7 (for the price of 6) to use in 2022 so will use 2 (so a one hour lesson) in the Spring to refresh the short game. Other than that I'll use them to either fix faults or try and kick the game forward and get the handicap down. I'm still a big fan of lessons and still think my teaching pro can get my handicap right down. Felt in the limited competitive golf we had in 2021 (although my club did really well to get as much played as possible) I played better than I scored so something I need to address with him about how to score ugly
		
Click to expand...

Lessons are the best way of spending your money to get better, new clubs can help a little (I'm guilty of always wanting the latest clubs) but having an expert pair of eyes giving you advice is definitely what I would advise everyone to do.

I've dipped in and out of having lessons myself over the years with various pros. I've recently started having lessons again with Scotty Howarth, he's getting me to change my transition which I'm finding very difficult as I've been stuck with my current pattern for around 20 years now. I've got my handicap down to 3 but I know that's pretty much as low as I'll get with my current swing, hence starting the lessons again. I've put a video below if anyone's interested in what I'm working on.

http://mail2.trackman.dk/track/clic...DYzYTc4MDcxMGM1YWQ4YmZkMmZmYjcwNGZjMFwiXX0ifQ


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 10, 2022)

SimonC said:



			Lessons are the best way of spending your money to get better, new clubs can help a little (I'm guilty of always wanting the latest clubs) but having an expert pair of eyes giving you advice is definitely what I would advise everyone to do.

I've dipped in and out of having lessons myself over the years with various pros. I've recently started having lessons again with Scotty Howarth, he's getting me to change my transition which I'm finding very difficult as I've been stuck with my current pattern for around 20 years now. I've got my handicap down to 3 but I know that's pretty much as low as I'll get with my current swing, hence starting the lessons again. I've put a video below if anyone's interested in what I'm working on.

http://mail2.trackman.dk/track/clic...DYzYTc4MDcxMGM1YWQ4YmZkMmZmYjcwNGZjMFwiXX0ifQ

Click to expand...

I have an old habit of taking the club away outside the line and also guilty of lifting the club up. That is the main thing I've worked on this winter and making some good progress. Driver is behaving well and in general the ball striking, especially given the wet muddy conditions, is good. When I go for a swing MOT around Easter I know this will be the main area the pro will look at. Get it right and it gets it in a good position at the top. Then have to avoid throwing it over the top which is another old issue


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 10, 2022)

On learning golf, and hence on lessons, Bobby Jones had this to say...

_'Golf is played by striking the ball with the head of the club.  The objective of the player is not to swing the club in a specified manner, nor to execute a series of complicated movements in a prescribed sequence, nor to look pretty while he is doing it, but primarily and essentially to strike the ball with the head of the club so that *the ball will perform according to his wishes'*_

For me as I relearn how to hit the ball these are very wise words, and I particularly like the words I have highlighted - his focus is *the ball *and what happens to it after he has hit it.


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## evemccc (Jan 10, 2022)

SimonC said:



			Lessons are the best way of spending your money to get better, new clubs can help a little (I'm guilty of always wanting the latest clubs) but having an expert pair of eyes giving you advice is definitely what I would advise everyone to do.

I've dipped in and out of having lessons myself over the years with various pros. I've recently started having lessons again with Scotty Howarth, he's getting me to change my transition which I'm finding very difficult as I've been stuck with my current pattern for around 20 years now. I've got my handicap down to 3 but I know that's pretty much as low as I'll get with my current swing, hence starting the lessons again. I've put a video below if anyone's interested in what I'm working on.

http://mail2.trackman.dk/track/clic...DYzYTc4MDcxMGM1YWQ4YmZkMmZmYjcwNGZjMFwiXX0ifQ

Click to expand...

My question is that when you’re a low single-figure HCAP, how do you know what to work on?

My aims for the series of lessons I’ve got is primarily to improve consistency of strike - no thinning and fatting, and then I play to have wedge lessons for chipping and pitching, and then FW woods off the deck..

But to get to 3 HCAP, presumably you’re fully capable of doing these things well….as well as drawing / cutting at will..so how do scratch golfers know what’s best to work on? Is their aim of swing changes to improve GIR or FIR?


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## SimonC (Jan 10, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I have an old habit of taking the club away outside the line and also guilty of lifting the club up. That is the main thing I've worked on this winter and making some good progress. Driver is behaving well and in general the ball striking, especially given the wet muddy conditions, is good. When I go for a swing MOT around Easter I know this will be the main area the pro will look at. Get it right and it gets it in a good position at the top. Then have to avoid throwing it over the top which is another old issue
		
Click to expand...

Old habits are really hard to move away from, it takes a lot of practice to get new movements/patterns to stick. Golf in winter really does show if you're striking the ball well or not, its definitely less forgiving than in summer. 

At least you don't suck the club way inside there's nowhere to go from there. Just ask my dad 

Funny thing for me was I shot my lowest score for a very long time yesterday in the cold windy conditions (4 under gross through the  12 holes that were open, this is not the norm.). I don't know if I was implementing what I was told in the lesson though it's difficult when you're trying to make changes and play golf at the same time.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 10, 2022)

SimonC said:



			Old habits are really hard to move away from, it takes a lot of practice to get new movements/patterns to stick. Golf in winter really does show if you're striking the ball well or not, its definitely less forgiving than in summer.

At least you don't suck the club way inside there's nowhere to go from there. Just ask my dad 

Funny thing for me was I shot my lowest score for a very long time yesterday in the cold windy conditions (4 under gross through the  12 holes that were open, this is not the norm.). I don't know if I was implementing what I was told in the lesson though it's difficult when you're trying to make changes and play golf at the same time.
		
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Short game still my killer. Sure 80% is now a mental block. Take away the wet winter conditions which is just exaggerating the issue but getting so bogged down in technique to the point where I simply can't execute. Fats are the usual outcome. Trying to park it now until firmer conditions and then getting an hour refresher. I need to keep it simple but its been an issue for so long now I think I need to lose the mental baggage and play like a kid


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## Funt1m3 (Jan 10, 2022)

Just had my first lesson of 2022. Went well as usual, but what really amazed me at the end was I’ve always thought I was just not strong enough or fast enough to get distance. We got on the tracker thingy and he said watch this, I’ll strike with exactly the same club speed as you…

Result? He went 15% further with the exact speed! Ball strike, ball strike, ball strike

I’m now going into 2022 aiming for DeChambau!


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## SimonC (Jan 10, 2022)

evemccc said:



			My question is that when you’re a low single-figure HCAP, how do you know what to work on?

My aims for the series of lessons I’ve got is primarily to improve consistency of strike - no thinning and fatting, and then I play to have wedge lessons for chipping and pitching, and then FW woods off the deck..

But to get to 3 HCAP, presumably you’re fully capable of doing these things well….as well as drawing / cutting at will..so how do scratch golfers know what’s best to work on? Is their aim of swing changes to improve GIR or FIR?
		
Click to expand...

For me it's to have a more consistent swing, so similar to you in reality, maybe just on a slightly higher level. I know that my swing is far from perfect and with its current state it's very timing based, so I have good and bad days as I'm relying too much on my hand eye coordination. I just have to look at my scores to see that I can shoot under par one day and 10 over the next. Yes I can hit fades/draws but they don't come off all the time. But my main issue is my bad shots cost me too many shots, I'll hit a massive hook with the driver that goes out of bounds and hit too many short iron shots that miss the green and it all stems from my transition. I do find it hard to see my own swing issues, hence why I'm having lessons again and I'm also no expert on the golf swing. 

I suppose everyone is different as I've played with lots of low single figure golfers and the way they all play the game is very different, some don't hit the ball very far but pitch, chip and putt you to death and others just hit the ball a fairly long way so they're closer to the green and hit lots of greens as they're hitting wedges into the green but they may lose a ball or 2 and that's their round gone (this is me). 

Stat tracking is a good way to see where you need to improve too. I've got a shotscope so I can track all my stats. On my good days my strokes gained off the tee are similar to a tour pro because of my length but on a bad day when I lose a couple of balls that changes drastically. In short it will give you a good insight into what your tendancies are in your game as a whole and what you may need to work on.


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## SimonC (Jan 10, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Short game still my killer. Sure 80% is now a mental block. Take away the wet winter conditions which is just exaggerating the issue but getting so bogged down in technique to the point where I simply can't execute. Fats are the usual outcome. Trying to park it now until firmer conditions and then getting an hour refresher. I need to keep it simple but its been an issue for so long now I think I need to lose the mental baggage and play like a kid
		
Click to expand...

I have to say it's very difficult this time of year to get a crisp strike on your chips you just can't use the bounce of the club like you can in summer. I think you're right in just not worry about it too much when the ground conditions are as they currently are. Confidence is massive when chipping and pitching, I think most golfers myself included just worry too much about hitting a bad shot instead of just enjoying the challenge.


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## SimonC (Jan 10, 2022)

Funt1m3 said:



			Just had my first lesson of 2022. Went well as usual, but what really amazed me at the end was I’ve always thought I was just not strong enough or fast enough to get distance. We got on the tracker thingy and he said watch this, I’ll strike with exactly the same club speed as you…

Result? He went 15% further with the exact speed! Ball strike, ball strike, ball strike

I’m now going into 2022 aiming for DeChambau!
		
Click to expand...

Exactly what my pro said to me about my iron shots,  I flip at impact adding loft and hitting my irons too high and also not hitting down on them enough. He said you swing it faster than I do but I hit my irons further and proceeded to do the same thing as your pro did. When I get it right the ball flight is much lower and the strike feels so much better.


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## evemccc (Jan 10, 2022)

SimonC said:



			Exactly what my pro said to me about my iron shots,  I flip at impact adding loft and hitting my irons too high and also not hitting down on them enough. He said you swing it faster than I do but I hit my irons further and proceeded to do the same thing as your pro did. When I get it right the ball flight is much lower and the strike feels so much better.
		
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I had today in my lesson today!!

I have never thought I didn’t hit down on my 8/9 irons, I had assumed I always did….apparently my Angle of Attack is too shallow with the high-lofted irons, causing too high launch….I was 1 degrees down when I should be aiming for 4 or 5 or so — apparently

I had never thought I flipped at impact…but apparently I do too 😂😜

If I follow correctly, the smash factor and centreness of strike will increase, if I reduce launch….which will also help distance and playing into the wind 👍🏻


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## SimonC (Jan 10, 2022)

evemccc said:



			This is exactly what I had today in my lesson today!!

I have never thought I didn’t hit down on my 8/9 irons, I had assumed I always did….apparently my Angle of Attack is too shallow with the high-lofted irons, causing too high launch….I was 1 degrees down when I should be aiming for 4 or 5 or so — apparently

I had never thought I flipped at impact…but apparently I do too 😂🤪
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I always thought I was hitting down on the ball but obviously not anywhere near enough, when you get it right the ball flight is totally different.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 10, 2022)

evemccc said:



			This is exactly what I had today in my lesson today!!

I have never thought I didn’t hit down on my 8/9 irons, I had assumed I always did….apparently my Angle of Attack is too shallow with the high-lofted irons, causing too high launch….I was 1 degrees down when I should be aiming for 4 or 5 or so — apparently

I had never thought I flipped at impact…but apparently I do too 😂🤪
		
Click to expand...

Always think its a real eye opener at a lesson when you are certain your aren't doing something and then you get shown a video or a launch monitor and the evidence is there. I felt sure I had cracked the outside takeaway but put an empty coffee cup just outside the line warming up yesterday and hit it several times so still work to be done


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## bobmac (Jan 11, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Always think its a real eye opener at a lesson when you are certain your aren't doing something and then you get shown a video or a launch monitor and the evidence is there. I felt sure I had cracked the outside takeaway but put an empty coffee cup just outside the line warming up yesterday and hit it several times so still work to be done
		
Click to expand...

I guess you haven't had the playing lesson I suggested ages ago?



SimonC said:



			Yeah I always thought I was hitting down on the ball but obviously not anywhere near enough, when you get it right the ball flight is totally different.
		
Click to expand...

This drill will help you increase your angle of attack....
Hit the front ball without hitting the back ball and listen for the clubhead thumping the mat.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 11, 2022)

bobmac said:



			I guess you haven't had the playing lesson I suggested ages ago?



This drill will help you increase your angle of attack....
Hit the front ball without hitting the back ball and listen for the clubhead thumping the mat.







Click to expand...

Bob

No I haven't had the playing lesson as the pro is attached to a range and par 3 course and although he could come to my course 10 minutes away he would obviously need to block more time out and so losing out on lessons so he isn't keen. I'll give the drill a go at the next range session and come back to you


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## bobmac (Jan 11, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Bob

No I haven't had the playing lesson as the pro is attached to a range and par 3 course and although he could come to my course 10 minutes away he would obviously need to block more time out and so losing out on lessons so he isn't keen. I'll give the drill a go at the next range session and come back to you
		
Click to expand...

The reason I suggested a playing lesson is it might improve your shot selection.
PM me if you want to know more


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## SimonC (Jan 11, 2022)

bobmac said:



			I guess you haven't had the playing lesson I suggested ages ago?



This drill will help you increase your angle of attack....
Hit the front ball without hitting the back ball and listen for the clubhead thumping the mat.







Click to expand...

My angle of attack issue comes from my transition, when I did what my pro told me to do my 7 iron angle of attached went from around 1 down to 4 to 5 degrees down. I also had a good amount of shaft lean without even trying as I was rotating much more through the shot. He did say that once I master it I will actually hit the ball further too as I'll be using the bigger muscles more & correctly.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 11, 2022)

SimonC said:



			Lessons are the best way of spending your money to get better, new clubs can help a little (I'm guilty of always wanting the latest clubs) but having an expert pair of eyes giving you advice is definitely what I would advise everyone to do.

I've dipped in and out of having lessons myself over the years with various pros. I've recently started having lessons again with Scotty Howarth, he's getting me to change my transition which I'm finding very difficult as I've been stuck with my current pattern for around 20 years now. I've got my handicap down to 3 but I know that's pretty much as low as I'll get with my current swing, hence starting the lessons again. I've put a video below if anyone's interested in what I'm working on.

http://mail2.trackman.dk/track/clic...DYzYTc4MDcxMGM1YWQ4YmZkMmZmYjcwNGZjMFwiXX0ifQ

Click to expand...

So totally get what you are saying - though at a higher handicap level.

Now off 10 and not long since off 8 - I'm currently having lessons to completely change how I hit the ball (swing the club).

'Why are you doing this'? friends ask 'you are a good golfer'.  And indeed - many moons ago I got down to 6 but could not get any lower.  But I *knew *that I couldn't, as I realised there were significant flaws in my swing that basically prevented me doing so. The fact that I have never gone round any track in better than one-over gross points to the fact that every round a couple of times things would go a bit wrong due to my swing flaw...I'd just chuck in a couple or three doubles - it was a complete blocker to improvement.  But *I had never had lessons,* I swung the club as I had taught myself out of a book and by playing, but I had *absolutely no idea what I was doing, indeed more so what I was doing wrong.*

I persevered until 6months ago but had to admit defeat as the flaw that had caused me to fall off the tightrope I had walked pretty expertly for near 40yrs was wrecking my golf and my enjoyment of the game.   I was falling off the tightrope almost every round.  I could get myself back on the tightrope but I was no longer an expert tightrope walker, I wobbled all the time, and very regularly I just fell straight back off - sometimes very painfully.  And so six months ago I got fed up falling off and getting 'hurt', and decided I had to fix things.

*And for that and for the first time I am having lessons.*  However, even working very closely and regularly with my pro it is proving very, very difficult to break the habits of nearly 40ys.  But things are changing and I am confident that I will get to the point where - as my pro tells me - we will get me round a course in level par gross for the first time ever, and we will get my handicap down to 6 within a year or two.  He says that because, if I can crack the flaw then the blocker to my progress will be removed - he tells me I have sufficient innate long term learned short game touch and imagination, and course management skills, for that to happen.

But gosh golly, completely changing a swing that got me quite good is really tough - but it will be worth it.


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## Peter_Drake_teacher (Jan 11, 2022)

RangeMonkey said:



			it felt miraculous.

In my last lesson we focussed on timing of hip rotation, and club head lag. It added a good 20 yards to all my irons...when I hit it well.

But I went from hitting it well (enough for me) about 70% of the time, all the way down to about 20% of the time.

In frustration I booked another lesson after just a couple of weeks. Within five minutes he identified the issue, and inside another ten minutes had identified an approach that resonated with me enough to get my hit rate back up to more like 50%, whilst preserving the distance.

I’ve come away knowing what to work on now to keep the improvement going.

Desperation to delight in under an hour 🙂
		
Click to expand...

It is a total delight to come away from a lesson with a feeling like that! Keep on swinging! Peter Drake


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## SimonC (Jan 11, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			So totally get what you are saying - though at a higher handicap level.

Now off 10 and not long since off 8 - I'm currently having lessons to completely change how I hit the ball (swing the club).

'Why are you doing this'? friends ask 'you are a good golfer'.  And indeed - many moons ago I got down to 6 but could not get any lower.  But I *knew *that I couldn't, as I realised there were significant flaws in my swing that basically prevented me doing so. The fact that I have never gone round any track in better than one-over gross points to the fact that every round a couple of times things would go a bit wrong due to my swing flaw...I'd just chuck in a couple or three doubles - it was a complete blocker to improvement.  But *I had never had lessons,* I swung the club as I had taught myself out of a book and by playing, but I had *absolutely no idea what I was doing, indeed more so what I was doing wrong.*

I persevered until 6months ago but had to admit defeat as the flaw that had caused me to fall off the tightrope I had walked pretty expertly for near 40yrs was wrecking my golf and my enjoyment of the game.   I was falling off the tightrope almost every round.  I could get myself back on the tightrope but I was no longer an expert tightrope walker, I wobbled all the time, and very regularly I just fell straight back off - sometimes very painfully.  And so six months ago I got fed up falling off and getting 'hurt', and decided I had to fix things.

*And for that and for the first time I am having lessons.*  However, even working very closely and regularly with my pro it is proving very, very difficult to break the habits of nearly 40ys.  But things are changing and I am confident that I will get to the point where - as my pro tells me - we will get me round a course in level par gross for the first time ever, and we will get my handicap down to 6 within a year or two.  He says that because, if I can crack the flaw then the blocker to my progress will be removed - he tells me I have sufficient innate long term learned short game touch and imagination, and course management skills, for that to happen.

But gosh golly, completely changing a swing that got me quite good is really tough - but it will be worth it.
		
Click to expand...

One of my regular playing partners said a similar thing to me "you don't need lessons" but he's comparing his level to mine and there's a 15 shot difference in our handicaps so I can see where he is coming from but I know as I've previously mentioned I'm never going to be any better than I currently am unless I make these changes.

I have to agree though with how difficult it can be to change your swing, I have done it in the past though so I know I can do it. I used to sway off the ball & have a huge overs wing (many moons ago) but managed to move away from the move but the transition change is more difficult than my previous changes ever were.


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## BiMGuy (Jan 11, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			So totally get what you are saying - though at a higher handicap level.

Now off 10 and not long since off 8 - I'm currently having lessons to completely change how I hit the ball (swing the club).

'Why are you doing this'? friends ask 'you are a good golfer'.  And indeed - many moons ago I got down to 6 but could not get any lower.  But I *knew *that I couldn't, as I realised there were significant flaws in my swing that basically prevented me doing so. The fact that I have never gone round any track in better than one-over gross points to the fact that every round a couple of times things would go a bit wrong due to my swing flaw...I'd just chuck in a couple or three doubles - it was a complete blocker to improvement.  But *I had never had lessons,* I swung the club as I had taught myself out of a book and by playing, but I had *absolutely no idea what I was doing, indeed more so what I was doing wrong.*

I persevered until 6months ago but had to admit defeat as the flaw that had caused me to fall off the tightrope I had walked pretty expertly for near 40yrs was wrecking my golf and my enjoyment of the game.   I was falling off the tightrope almost every round.  I could get myself back on the tightrope but I was no longer an expert tightrope walker, I wobbled all the time, and very regularly I just fell straight back off - sometimes very painfully.  And so six months ago I got fed up falling off and getting 'hurt', and decided I had to fix things.

*And for that and for the first time I am having lessons.*  However, even working very closely and regularly with my pro it is proving very, very difficult to break the habits of nearly 40ys.  But things are changing and I am confident that I will get to the point where - as my pro tells me - we will get me round a course in level par gross for the first time ever, and we will get my handicap down to 6 within a year or two.  He says that because, if I can crack the flaw then the blocker to my progress will be removed - he tells me I have sufficient innate long term learned short game touch and imagination, and course management skills, for that to happen.

But gosh golly, completely changing a swing that got me quite good is really tough - but it will be worth it.
		
Click to expand...

I’ve not quite got 40 years golf experience, but my story is similar. 
I got down to 5.4 with a flat swing and an over the top early release. I got away with it because my hand eye coordination was sooooo good. I didn’t hit it far but I had a very consistent fade and was accurate.

I stopped playing, when I started again I was straight back into the same swing, just with less speed and none of the hand eye coordination. I quickly got to the point of being able to manage my way round in the mid 80s, which I was happy with at first. But I knew I would not get better without addressing my swing. Especially as age and injury had robbed me of distance.

I’m part way through completely changing my setup and swing. I’m hitting shanks, which I have never done, even when a complete beginner. I hit the occasional fat 6” behind the ball and even fresh aired one for the first time ever during a round. It could completely destroy my confidence if there weren’t signs of improvement too, and importantly, I now know why I’m hitting those poor shots and what to do to correct them. 
I’ve played the odd bad round where the FiL and my regular playing partner have both questioned my sanity as I continue to try to play with the new swing. As they would both be over the moon shooting under 85.

But. I’m determined over the winter to put the hard work in and fix it. I was out of the door at 7 this morning to go to a lesson where I spent an hour rehearing the impact position hitting 7 irons 50 to 75 yards. 

My major golf goal for this year is the same as yours. Shoot a level par round. I’ve only done it once, previously. I’ve never shot under par, so I’m saving that for next years goal 😆.


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## evemccc (Jan 11, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			So totally get what you are saying - though at a higher handicap level.

Now off 10 and not long since off 8 - I'm currently having lessons to completely change how I hit the ball (swing the club).

'Why are you doing this'? friends ask 'you are a good golfer'.  And indeed - many moons ago I got down to 6 but could not get any lower.  But I *knew *that I couldn't, as I realised there were significant flaws in my swing that basically prevented me doing so. The fact that I have never gone round any track in better than one-over gross points to the fact that every round a couple of times things would go a bit wrong due to my swing flaw...I'd just chuck in a couple or three doubles - it was a complete blocker to improvement.  But *I had never had lessons,* I swung the club as I had taught myself out of a book and by playing, but I had *absolutely no idea what I was doing, indeed more so what I was doing wrong.*

I persevered until 6months ago but had to admit defeat as the flaw that had caused me to fall off the tightrope I had walked pretty expertly for near 40yrs was wrecking my golf and my enjoyment of the game.   I was falling off the tightrope almost every round.  I could get myself back on the tightrope but I was no longer an expert tightrope walker, I wobbled all the time, and very regularly I just fell straight back off - sometimes very painfully.  And so six months ago I got fed up falling off and getting 'hurt', and decided I had to fix things.

*And for that and for the first time I am having lessons.*  However, even working very closely and regularly with my pro it is proving very, very difficult to break the habits of nearly 40ys.  But things are changing and I am confident that I will get to the point where - as my pro tells me - we will get me round a course in level par gross for the first time ever, and we will get my handicap down to 6 within a year or two.  He says that because, if I can crack the flaw then the blocker to my progress will be removed - he tells me I have sufficient innate long term learned short game touch and imagination, and course management skills, for that to happen.

But gosh golly, completely changing a swing that got me quite good is really tough - but it will be worth it.
		
Click to expand...

All sounds good SILH. When people say they're having lessons, how often and how many? Obviously mastering or improving golf is something that has no definite end-goal, so when do people feel like they've enough to work on?


SimonC said:



			Lessons are the best way of spending your money to get better, new clubs can help a little (I'm guilty of always wanting the latest clubs) but having an expert pair of eyes giving you advice is definitely what I would advise everyone to do.

I've dipped in and out of having lessons myself over the years with various pros. I've recently started having lessons again with Scotty Howarth, he's getting me to change my transition which I'm finding very difficult as I've been stuck with my current pattern for around 20 years now. I've got my handicap down to 3 but I know that's pretty much as low as I'll get with my current swing, hence starting the lessons again. I've put a video below if anyone's interested in what I'm working on.

http://mail2.trackman.dk/track/clic...DYzYTc4MDcxMGM1YWQ4YmZkMmZmYjcwNGZjMFwiXX0ifQ

Click to expand...

Good video


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## Orikoru (Jan 11, 2022)

Fair play to you chaps. If I even got to 9 index I'd be so delighted I wouldn't change a damn thing.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 11, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			I’ve not quite got 40 years golf experience, but my story is similar.
I got down to 5.4 with a flat swing and an over the top early release. I got away with it because my hand eye coordination was sooooo good. I didn’t hit it far but I had a very consistent fade and was accurate.

I stopped playing, when I started again I was straight back into the same swing, just with less speed and none of the hand eye coordination. I quickly got to the point of being able to manage my way round in the mid 80s, which I was happy with at first. But I knew I would not get better without addressing my swing. Especially as age and injury had robbed me of distance.

I’m part way through completely changing my setup and swing. I’m hitting shanks, which I have never done, even when a complete beginner. I hit the occasional fat 6” behind the ball and even fresh aired one for the first time ever during a round. It could completely destroy my confidence if there weren’t signs of improvement too, and importantly, I now know why I’m hitting those poor shots and what to do to correct them.
I’ve played the odd bad round where the FiL and my regular playing partner have both questioned my sanity as I continue to try to play with the new swing. As they would both be over the moon shooting under 85.

But. I’m determined over the winter to put the hard work in and fix it. I was out of the door at 7 this morning to go to a lesson where I spent an hour rehearing the impact position hitting 7 irons 50 to 75 yards.

My major golf goal for this year is the same as yours. Shoot a level par round. I’ve only done it once, previously. I’ve never shot under par, so I’m saving that for next years goal 😆.
		
Click to expand...

Love your story…you’re me - including the break…mine was 8 yrs with only a few rounds a year as we’d moved area and the children were very young.  Flat In-to-Out swing that I could make work by spot on H2E coordination and very rapid hands squaring the club at impact, but still very I2O giving a low draw.  Others thought it was a cool shape of shot and for as long as I played 6 rounds a week I walked my tightrope…but the shanks were always there - only coming out occasionally but I knew…

Then after the break the coordination was gone and I couldn’t get it back - and the shanks were multiple every round - I kept falling off the tightrope this time every round and often very painfully. 

And shortly I am off to the range for half an hour to hit 7is, like you focussing on my strike position trying to get swing path O2I - and just 50-75yds much of the time. 😁👍


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 11, 2022)

evemccc said:



			All sounds good SILH. When people say they're having lessons, how often and how many? Obviously mastering or improving golf is something that has no definite end-goal, so when do people feel like they've enough to work on?


Good video
		
Click to expand...

How often and how many?  I’m fortunate…my daughters partner is my pro, if he’s doing lessons on the range when I’m there he will often come over to me between lessons for maybe 10-15mins…plus when he’s got a gap in his teaching diary he’ll often give me a full lesson. 

What I have to work on is easy for him to explain and for me to understand…but it is very very difficult for me to do…and it’s such a critical thing for me to change and get right that there is no point in us looking at anything else until we feel I am managing to make that change.  It’ll be very obvious.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Fair play to you chaps. If I even got to 9 index I'd be so delighted I wouldn't change a damn thing. 

Click to expand...

Yes - but you saw my swing at pre-H4H Camberley.  And yes - I got it round in 6 over - 43pts or whatever it was - I maybe made it look easy but I bet you wondered how the heck I did it…well I managed to walk the tightrope as well as I can these days.

Then ask @Liverpoolphil or @Lilyhawk what I was like next day at H4H Blackmoor.  A shambles of 24pts or whatever.  I fell off that tightrope quite heavily a good many times during that round. It wasn’t ALL rubbish, and some of my golf was like Camberley…but oh dear…

And these two days exemplified perfectly me in transition from ‘what was’ to ‘what might be’

In fact @mikejohnchapman played with me both days…he saw - he understands 🙄


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## Orikoru (Jan 11, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Yes - but you saw my swing at pre-H4H Camberley.  And yes - I got it round in 6 over - 43pts or whatever it was - I maybe made it look easy but I bet you wondered how the heck I did it…well I managed to walk the tightrope as well as I can these days.

Then ask @Liverpoolphil or @Lilyhawk what I was like next day at H4H Blackmoor.  A shambles of 24pts or whatever.  I fell off that tightrope quite heavily a good many times during that round. It wasn’t ALL rubbish, and some of my golf was like Camberley…but oh dear…

And these two days exemplified perfectly me in transition from ‘what was’ to ‘what might be’

In fact @mikejohnchapman played with me both days…he saw - he understands 🙄
		
Click to expand...

I'm actually not one of those who values what a swing looks like. If anything I love the more unorthodox swings. The proof is in the pudding as they say.   But it all goes back to whether you're willing to put work into it anyway - you are, and I wouldn't be! That's why I say fair play to you.


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## SocketRocket (Jan 11, 2022)

If your coach doesn't start out teaching you this then find one who does.
https://fb.watch/ati1ptBLFo/


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## BiMGuy (Jan 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I'm actually not one of those who values what a swing looks like. If anything I love the more unorthodox swings. The proof is in the pudding as they say.   But it all goes back to whether you're willing to put work into it anyway - you are, and I wouldn't be! That's why I say fair play to you.
		
Click to expand...

My swing is not what could be described as orthodox, or in any way pleasing on the eye. I’ve had people in the past comment on how surprised they were that I could score so well after seeing me swing on the 1st tee.

To address your earlier point. The beauty of golf is there is always improvement to be had. When you start breaking 100 and getting a HC is a big milestone. Then breaking 90, 80 and so on. The same with HC milestones 28 > 18 > 12 > single figures > cat 1 > scratch > plus.

When I played previously I chased the next thing. But did so by playing smash it, find it, smash it again golf 3/4/5 times a week. I was usually playing with scratch and plus HC players so picked up a lot of good short game habits. From 50 yards I was every bit as good as them, I just didn’t have the length to compete. I very rarely shot a score in the 80s but never really ever threatened to break par. 

12 months ago if someone told me I’d have an index of 9.3 within a year. I would firstly have laughed at them, then said I would be more than happy with that. 

Now I don’t care what my HI is. I genuinely have no interest in it other than it’s a rough guide to my ability and it allows me to play in some opens and club comps. My interest is in whether or not my ball striking is improving and how low a score I can shoot.


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## evemccc (Jan 11, 2022)

SimonC said:



			One of my regular playing partners said a similar thing to me "you don't need lessons" but he's comparing his level to mine and there's a 15 shot difference in our handicaps so I can see where he is coming from but I know as I've previously mentioned I'm never going to be any better than I currently am unless I make these changes.

I have to agree though with how difficult it can be to change your swing, I have done it in the past though so I know I can do it. I used to sway off the ball & have a huge overs wing (many moons ago) but managed to move away from the move but the transition change is more difficult than my previous changes ever were.
		
Click to expand...

Can I ask how often you’re having lessons, and how often you practice between?

I have just bought a package of lessons from a pro who I like his personality, teaching set-up, and communication style.

I am thinking of 30 mins every two or three weeks…probably I’m only able to play once or twice a week  between lessons plus a range session….I’m certainly not flush with cash so don’t want to waste these lessons and have shown no real progression between sessions

I originally had thought five sessions would see me cover Long irons, wedge-pitching, driver, and a putting lesson —— now I see how naive and optimistic I was in thinking that!!

Unless I can fix the chicken-wing and make consistent striking, there’s not going to be any putting or driving lessons in this series of lessons 😂

Obviously it’s down to me to embed the changes and practice efficiently when I do get to practice…so do you reckon a lesson every 2/3 weeks is good amount of a gap?


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## SimonC (Jan 11, 2022)

evemccc said:



			Can I ask how often you’re having lessons, and how often you practice between?

I have just bought a package of lessons from a pro who I like his personality, teaching set-up, and communication style.

I am thinking of 30 mins every two or three weeks…probably I’m only able to play once or twice max between lessons plus a range session….I’m certainly not flush with cash so don’t want to waste these lessons and have shown no real progression between sessions

I originally had thought five sessions would see me cover Long irons, wedge-pitching, driver, and a putting lesson —— now I see how naive and optimistic I was in thinking that!!

Unless I can fix the chicken-wing and make consistent striking, there’s not going to be any putting or driving lessons in this series of lessons 😂
		
Click to expand...

I'm trying to have a lesson every 3 to 4 weeks and each lesson is 60 to 90 minutes long. I feel I get more out of a longer lesson as it gives me more time with my pro to ingrain a feeling in my swing. 

Practice wise I try to go to the range 3 times a week and hit approximately 100 balls but also do drills in-between hitting each ball. I also play once a week but I do find playing difficult as it's far too easy to forget about the new moves I'm trying to implement and end up trying to put a score together rather than focusing on making the necessary changes. 

If I was you I'd focus on being able to swing the club correctly as the swing stays pretty much the same way with the difference being in your setup/stance and ball position.


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## SimonC (Jan 22, 2022)

So today I had my second lesson with Scotty. We worked on More internal rotation of the left arm to get in a position where I can shallow the shaft. I found more success using my left arm rather than focusing on my right arm which I had been doing. I had an issue of letting my left arm get away from the body and go towards the ball so he gave me some drills to keep this back. We also worked on staying in my tilt to get the correct rotation. 

Here are a few videos from the lesson

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CZCgDb6MTp5/?utm_medium=copy_link

http://mail2.trackman.dk/track/clic...DYzYTc4MDcxMGM1YWQ4YmZkMmZmYjcwNGZjMFwiXX0ifQ

http://mail2.trackman.dk/track/clic...DYzYTc4MDcxMGM1YWQ4YmZkMmZmYjcwNGZjMFwiXX0ifQ


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## evemccc (Jan 22, 2022)

SimonC said:



			So today I had my second lesson with Scotty. We worked on More internal rotation of the left arm to get in a position where I can shallow the shaft. I found more success using my left arm rather than focusing on my right arm which I had been doing. I had an issue of letting my left arm get away from the body and go towards the ball so he gave me some drills to keep this back. We also worked on staying in my tilt to get the correct rotation. 

Here are a few videos from the lesson

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CZCgDb6MTp5/?utm_medium=copy_link

http://mail2.trackman.dk/track/clic...DYzYTc4MDcxMGM1YWQ4YmZkMmZmYjcwNGZjMFwiXX0ifQ

http://mail2.trackman.dk/track/clic...DYzYTc4MDcxMGM1YWQ4YmZkMmZmYjcwNGZjMFwiXX0ifQ

Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing this!

I find it very interesting to see what a low handicapper’s lessons look like. Please keep these coming 

For myself after playing golf and not really improving much in the last year, I’ve recently found a pro who I think explains things well and have started to think much more about my swing and what I’m trying to do 

After videoing myself (thanks for recommendation @Boomy ) I can see I’ve got to improve balance in follow through —- as well as many more things - But that was as clear as day from seeing myself back on video


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## SimonC (Jan 22, 2022)

evemccc said:



			Thanks for sharing this!

I find it very interesting to see what a low handicapper’s lessons look like. Please keep these coming 

For myself after playing golf and not really improving much in the last year, I’ve recently found a pro who I think explains things well and have started to think much more about my swing and what I’m trying to do

After videoing myself (thanks for recommendation @Boomy ) I can see I’ve got to improve balance in follow through —- as well as many more things - But that was as clear as day from seeing myself back on video
		
Click to expand...

I will do, I've got another lesson lined up in a couple of weeks just need to work hard on my what I worked on in this lesson. He said once I nail this movement we'll get onto using the ground more and I can take my game as far as I want. Hopefully scratch or better won't be out of the question. 
He put my swing next to Rory's as he said my mechanics are similar to his (obviously no where near his level though). I have been worried about getting the club too far behind me but it transpires that this feeling for me is exactly what I needed (left arm pinned to the chest) he said plenty of good players play from this position and it suits the way I swing the club.

That's good, I think that it's important that you find a pro who you can work well with and understand, it makes all the difference. Practice is also key as lots of people go for a lesson and want a quick fix and moan when they struggle and just go back to what they know. I'm not saying this is you though as it sounds like you're doing the right things. 

I also video my swing a lot at the range to make sure I'm actually doing what I should be.


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## Wilson (Jan 22, 2022)

I had 30 mins on Friday, as always he tidied up a couple of things, around takeaway and getting a positive swing direction, the proof will be in my score tomorrow.

I have an online subscription which works brilliantly, I used some of my bonus from work to buy a lesson package, with the idea of having 30 minutes once a month. I’ve also got a playing lesson in a couple of weeks.


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## Brads (Jan 22, 2022)

Had lessons before I’ve even played on a course .
Been practicing what I’ve been taught and am hitting quite well.
Decided I wouldn’t be comfortable hacking away on course without a clue so the lessons were the best thing I could have done imo.
I started at how a ball stays in the air and what makes that happen with the club. third lesson was on driving and as I hadn’t a clue it completely changed everything I was doing and I’m now getting the ball down range with virtually every hit

After a start like this I’d recommend lessons to anyone.


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## Junior (Jan 23, 2022)

SimonC said:



			So today I had my second lesson with Scotty. We worked on More internal rotation of the left arm to get in a position where I can shallow the shaft. I found more success using my left arm rather than focusing on my right arm which I had been doing. I had an issue of letting my left arm get away from the body and go towards the ball so he gave me some drills to keep this back. We also worked on staying in my tilt to get the correct rotation.

Here are a few videos from the lesson

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CZCgDb6MTp5/?utm_medium=copy_link

http://mail2.trackman.dk/track/clic...DYzYTc4MDcxMGM1YWQ4YmZkMmZmYjcwNGZjMFwiXX0ifQ

http://mail2.trackman.dk/track/clic...DYzYTc4MDcxMGM1YWQ4YmZkMmZmYjcwNGZjMFwiXX0ifQ

Click to expand...

Is that at Davenport GC ? 

I've recently move to Macc and the guy I usually see for lessons is about an hour away now so I'm on the look out.  Had one from Peter Barber at The Beeches and he was good, but Davenport is a bit closer. 

Great swing BTW.  👏


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## SimonC (Jan 23, 2022)

Junior said:



			Is that at Davenport GC ?

I've recently move to Macc and the guy I usually see for lessons is about an hour away now so I'm on the look out.  Had one from Peter Barber at The Beeches and he was good, but Davenport is a bit closer.

Great swing BTW.  👏
		
Click to expand...

Thanks Junior, my swing feels a little alien at the moment but it's wort changing it for the long run.

 Yes it is at Davenport his brother Jamie also teaches there.

I go to the Beeches all the time, my boys love it there.


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## bobmac (Jan 23, 2022)

I'm not a fan of the bowed left wrist he seems to be suggesting but if it cures a problem you have then go for it


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## SimonC (Jan 23, 2022)

bobmac said:



			I'm not a fan of the bowed left wrist he seems to be suggesting but if it cures a problem you have then go for it
		
Click to expand...

Why's that Bob? All good players have their lead wrist in flexion on their downswing. Some have it earlier than others but I don't know of any top players with their lead wrist in extension?

I just struggle to move from extension to flexion in my downswing so this is the feel that works for me.


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## bobmac (Jan 23, 2022)

I think although it may increase clubhead speed, it can lead to a loss in accuracy.
But as I said, if it cures a problem you have then fine


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## SimonC (Jan 23, 2022)

bobmac said:



			I think although it may increase clubhead speed, it can lead to a loss in accuracy.
But as I said, if it cures a problem you have then fine
		
Click to expand...

Ok I was just curious as to why, yeah for me it works but for others maybe not


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## JamesR (Jan 23, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Yes - but you saw my swing at pre-H4H Camberley.  And yes - I got it round in 6 over - 43pts or whatever it was - I maybe made it look easy but I bet you wondered how the heck I did it…well I managed to walk the tightrope as well as I can these days.

Then ask @Liverpoolphil or @Lilyhawk what I was like next day at H4H Blackmoor.  A shambles of 24pts or whatever.  I fell off that tightrope quite heavily a good many times during that round. It wasn’t ALL rubbish, and some of my golf was like Camberley…but oh dear…

And these two days exemplified perfectly me in transition from ‘what was’ to ‘what might be’

In fact @mikejohnchapman played with me both days…he saw - he understands 🙄
		
Click to expand...

They said you were awful, but never mentioned your swing,…or golf game in general for that matter 🤔🤭🤗


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 23, 2022)

Big advocate of lessons as many will know. Haven't had a one-to-one lesson but went back through my video collection of shots from previous lessons and found something from about 5 months ago. Hitting it nicely and two 39 points this weekend. My pro is really good at making sure I have a visual to take away to refer back to and I often go back and check things when I start to go awry


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## J55TTC (Jan 24, 2022)

Back to basics for the driver, I had put so many band aids on all aspects of hitting driver it was beginning to look like nonsense even to me!

GCQuad spat the numbers out, path out to in around 5 degrees open club face anywhere from 8-10 degrees. I don’t know how I found many fairways looking at the numbers…. Smash factor way down 1.2-1.3

Total reset and path is much much better but still have the tendency to be a couple of degrees open with the face but smash factor way up to 1.42 on average. So now I have to hit about 1000 half swings trying to draw the ball and roll my wrists. On the up side when I caught the easy half swings well I was getting 200-205 carry so I need to nail this in time for summer so I can finally hit bombs!


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## bobmac (Jan 24, 2022)

J55TTC said:



			So now I have to hit about 1000 half swings trying to draw the ball and *roll my wrists.*

Click to expand...

The wrists are controlled by fast twitch muscles which are difficult to control consistently.
If you feel you have to roll your wrists, I'd say there's something wrong with your grip, take away or both.


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## J55TTC (Jan 24, 2022)

bobmac said:



			The wrists are controlled by fast twitch muscles which are difficult to control consistently.
If you feel you have to roll your wrists, I'd say there's something wrong with your grip, take away or both.
		
Click to expand...

I’ve been watching YouTube videos this afternoon all the guys like Rick Shiels, Chris Ryan and me and my golf all pointing to grip. Need another range session now as thinking about it, I’m pretty sure my grip could do with being a touch stronger


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 24, 2022)

J55TTC said:



			Back to basics for the driver, I had put so many band aids on all aspects of hitting driver it was beginning to look like nonsense even to me!

GCQuad spat the numbers out, path out to in around 5 degrees open club face anywhere from 8-10 degrees. I don’t know how I found many fairways looking at the numbers…. Smash factor way down 1.2-1.3

Total reset and path is much much better but still have the tendency to be a couple of degrees open with the face but smash factor way up to 1.42 on average. So now I have to hit about 1000 half swings trying to draw the ball and roll my wrists. On the up side when I caught the easy half swings well I was getting 200-205 carry so I need to nail this in time for summer so I can finally hit bombs!
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure I've asked but where did you have the lesson. I am playing well despite the driver. Got a weak fade and distance down so will be interested to see how you progress. The good ones are really good but not often enough which is putting pressure on the rest of the game. At the moment it is up to the job but we know how quickly that can change


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## J55TTC (Jan 24, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I'm sure I've asked but where did you have the lesson. I am playing well despite the driver. Got a weak fade and distance down so will be interested to see how you progress. The good ones are really good but not often enough which is putting pressure on the rest of the game. At the moment it is up to the job but we know how quickly that can change
		
Click to expand...

Having my lessons with the pro at hindhead, like your pro he leaves me with photos and videos to look back at and use for reference which I find very helpful. 

My iron striking is now the best it’s ever been with the lessons I received, not 100% consistent but dramatically improved. I feel the driver is going to be harder to adapt to than the irons unfortunately.


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## IainP (Jan 25, 2022)

Actually started a lesson hitting it well! After mostly chopping it round the course on Saturday I'd had a ponder and reckoned I had a hunch where I'd fallen back, & the warm up was trending in the right direction. Some further tweaks from the pro and he was declaring he'd never seen me hit it so well (& it wasn't just BS as I could see the GC numbers also).
Mojo firmly back 

(until the weekend )


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## BrianM (Jan 27, 2022)

Have hit hundreds off balls this week into the net, but just can’t do it on the course, frustrated doesn’t even come close.


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## Albo (Jan 27, 2022)

This thread convinced me that I would actually benefit from lessons, I spend stupid money on golf membership to 2 courses, new equipment, launch monitors, balls, clothing etc etc etc and my golf has stalled and is regressing backwards of late.  Yet despite all of the outlay, I wont dump £60 on a lesson to help myself, rather watch youtube and put a bad version of a fix ontop of a bad foundation and expect everything to get better.
After playing last weekend on Saturday and fatting 75% of my shots off the deck, I applied a youtube fix, which worked and on Sunday I thinned about 60% of my shots, i decided enough was enough.

Id done some research on coaches near by and booked myslef lesson for yesterday.  The guy was really good with me, talked about what was wrong in my mind with my golf (poor swing, too many fat/thin shots, too inconsistent), what I wanted to achieve from lessons (be able to actually play as a reasonable single figure capper, currently off 9.8 but thats last years number and on my home course and usually as soon as I go to any other course im struggling to break 90, along side consistency in strike / shot shape).
I also told him if things worked out and I can see progress i'd happily rip up my swing and totally revamp it, im not looking for a quick fix.
So had the lesson, I asked him to be brutally honest about my swing, which he was and worked on;
Set up: Ball position, posture, hand poaition, left foot
Take away; right hip movement and left arm position at the top
Downswing; impact position and low point of the swing.
Took a while to get used to a new way of standing and swinging and as i've been coming up off the ball in my downswing (leading to fat or thin shots and shots very high on the club face), hardest bit was trusting to stay down and commit to the low point of my swing way ahead of the ball.  After a few bad hits ot started to click and I started to connect much better with the balls, he spayed some foot spray on the club and at one point I hit 4 shots ina row out of the middle 3/4 groves up, that may not sound like much, but to me I can see the improvement, better still I can feel it. Post lesson I got about 50 balls, and would honestly say that 35/40 of them were as better or as good as the best strikes id hit pre lesson and ot would have taken me 100s of balls to hit 40 of that quality.  For reference last weekend over 2 round, I felt id middled 1 iron shot in total.

Need to stick at it now and not lapse into old ways and not watch anymore youtube!

My body aches this morning and given the amount of golf I usually play thats very unusual, so I am moat definitely using different muscles or the same muscles differently.


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## SimonC (Feb 4, 2022)

Another update on my progress. 

Yesterday I had my 3rd lesson with Scotty & I've made some significant changes to my swing. 

Video 1 & 2 shows the difference in my swing over a 3 lesson period although it was actually a little better later on in the lesson as on one of these swings I hit a toe shank (early swing getting used to the new moves): 

Video 1
http://mail2.trackman.dk/track/clic...A2M2E3ODA3MTBjNWFkOGJmZDJmZmI3MDRmYzBcIl19In0 

Video2
http://mail2.trackman.dk/track/click/10654379/mytrackman.com?p=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 

Video 3: earlier on in the lesson 
http://mail2.trackman.dk/track/clic...A2M2E3ODA3MTBjNWFkOGJmZDJmZmI3MDRmYzBcIl19In0

And this is right at the end of the lesson giving me the feels I visuals of where & what I need to be doing:





I walked into the lesson barely hitting down at all as I had slightly misinterpreted something from my previous lesson but this was quickly sorted & ended up getting my angle of attack to around 4 to 6 degrees down. My dynamic loft was lower with my 8 iron than it was with my 7 iron during my previous lesson & this meant I was hitting the ball much lower & hitting what felt like chipped 8 irons that flew 150 yards. This is really exciting for me as I've never hit my irons very far in comparison to my driver which I get the most out of so I'm looking forward to getting the move ingrained & gradually turning on the power to see how much further & straighter I'm hitting it.


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## Oddsocks (Feb 4, 2022)

Thing that I love with golf is that one persons fault can be another persons goal.

Had a lesson this week after bratty ruined my game at the weekend and it’s yet again the same faults. Low rotation, short back swing and a rushed down swing with no transition.  10 years golf as a junior with no initial tuition is a long term killer.


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## SurreyGolfer (Feb 4, 2022)

Had a lesson yesterday and points were:
- Excellent takeaway,
- Ok backswing
- From top of backswing onwards things go awry, with my club coming down too steep and straight, rather than shallow and going 'around my body' after follow through. This is giving me trouble with longer clubs and my bad shot being a straight push right.

All makes sense, all on video. Just need to spend some time practicing and fixing it now!


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## Junior (Feb 5, 2022)

SimonC said:



			Another update on my progress.

Yesterday I had my 3rd lesson with Scotty & I've made some significant changes to my swing.

Video 1 & 2 shows the difference in my swing over a 3 lesson period although it was actually a little better later on in the lesson as on one of these swings I hit a toe shank (early swing getting used to the new moves):

Video 1
http://mail2.trackman.dk/track/clic...A2M2E3ODA3MTBjNWFkOGJmZDJmZmI3MDRmYzBcIl19In0

Video2
http://mail2.trackman.dk/track/click/10654379/mytrackman.com?p=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

Video 3: earlier on in the lesson
http://mail2.trackman.dk/track/clic...A2M2E3ODA3MTBjNWFkOGJmZDJmZmI3MDRmYzBcIl19In0

And this is right at the end of the lesson giving me the feels I visuals of where & what I need to be doing:





I walked into the lesson barely hitting down at all as I had slightly misinterpreted something from my previous lesson but this was quickly sorted & ended up getting my angle of attack to around 4 to 6 degrees down. My dynamic loft was lower with my 8 iron than it was with my 7 iron during my previous lesson & this meant I was hitting the ball much lower & hitting what felt like chipped 8 irons that flew 150 yards. This is really exciting for me as I've never hit my irons very far in comparison to my driver which I get the most out of so I'm looking forward to getting the move ingrained & gradually turning on the power to see how much further & straighter I'm hitting it.
		
Click to expand...

Great work 👍I love a good golf lesson especiallywhen you see progress between them.  I think I may have to pay this dude a visit.


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## bobmac (Feb 5, 2022)

You weren't hitting it left at all?


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## garyinderry (Feb 5, 2022)

SimonC said:



			Another update on my progress. 

Yesterday I had my 3rd lesson with Scotty & I've made some significant changes to my swing. 

Video 1 & 2 shows the difference in my swing over a 3 lesson period although it was actually a little better later on in the lesson as on one of these swings I hit a toe shank (early swing getting used to the new moves): 

Video 1
http://mail2.trackman.dk/track/clic...A2M2E3ODA3MTBjNWFkOGJmZDJmZmI3MDRmYzBcIl19In0 

Video2
http://mail2.trackman.dk/track/click/10654379/mytrackman.com?p=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 

Video 3: earlier on in the lesson 
http://mail2.trackman.dk/track/clic...A2M2E3ODA3MTBjNWFkOGJmZDJmZmI3MDRmYzBcIl19In0

And this is right at the end of the lesson giving me the feels I visuals of where & what I need to be doing:





I walked into the lesson barely hitting down at all as I had slightly misinterpreted something from my previous lesson but this was quickly sorted & ended up getting my angle of attack to around 4 to 6 degrees down. My dynamic loft was lower with my 8 iron than it was with my 7 iron during my previous lesson & this meant I was hitting the ball much lower & hitting what felt like chipped 8 irons that flew 150 yards. This is really exciting for me as I've never hit my irons very far in comparison to my driver which I get the most out of so I'm looking forward to getting the move ingrained & gradually turning on the power to see how much further & straighter I'm hitting it.
		
Click to expand...


Been enjoying these lesson updates too. Very intresting to see the progress. 
I'd enjoy a lesson with this guy too if I was near by as we both have similar backswings. I would need him to get hands on and physically move me into the positions on the down and follow through as my club doesnt exit the same as yours. That and a fair bit less speed. I've also had a problem with getting open. It just doesn't seem to happen for me. 

Keep up the good work


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## SimonC (Feb 5, 2022)

Junior said:



			Great work 👍I love a good golf lesson especiallywhen you see progress between them.  I think I may have to pay this dude a visit.
		
Click to expand...

Yes it's nice to see that I'm actually making changes. There's a lot of range work in between lessons but it's paying off.

I'd definitely recommend him as long as you put in the work. If you book a lesson then let him know Simon Cornwell recommended him as I'll get a half price lesson.


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## SimonC (Feb 5, 2022)

garyinderry said:



			Been enjoying these lesson updates too. Very intresting to see the progress.
I'd enjoy a lesson with this guy too if I was near by as we both have similar backswings. I would need him to get hands on and physically move me into the positions on the down and follow through as my club doesnt exit the same as yours. That and a fair bit less speed. I've also had a problem with getting open. It just doesn't seem to happen for me. 

Keep up the good work 

Click to expand...

Thanks Gary. He does get hands on and gives you different feels until there's one that works for you, as what I feel may be totally different to what you feel. The funny thing is I'm not actually trying to get open it happens naturally once the backswing is in the correct position and your body then reacts, this may not happen for everyone but it does at least for me. 

I'll make sure I keep posting, I've got another lesson in 2 weeks.


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## SimonC (Feb 5, 2022)

bobmac said:



			You weren't hitting it left at all?
		
Click to expand...

No why would I be hitting it left Bob, I hit it left less than I used to as I'm not flipping at impact? My ball flight has come down though.


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## garyinderry (Feb 5, 2022)

SimonC said:



			Thanks Gary. He does get hands on and gives you different feels until there's one that works for you, as what I feel may be totally different to what you feel. The funny thing is I'm not actually trying to get open it happens naturally once the backswing is in the correct position and your body then reacts, this may not happen for everyone but it does at least for me. 

I'll make sure I keep posting, I've got another lesson in 2 weeks.
		
Click to expand...

I know exactly what you mean about feel and real. Major issue for me has been a flat turn of the shoulders. Worked a fair bit this last year or so on trying to turn the left shoulder more down to the ball on the backswing. 
I've been going to the range one a week since the new year helping a friend who's just started. He hits about 80% of the balls. This saves my back lol.  
Ill post a few swings here so you can see the similarities in backswing and differences in downswing and post impact.


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## garyinderry (Feb 5, 2022)

Couldn't fault the contact that night.


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## garyinderry (Feb 5, 2022)

Another week another idea.  Trying to delay the hit.  This was one of the best ones I hit and lucky to catch it on film. Solid, lower flight and got out there.


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## garyinderry (Feb 5, 2022)

This week.  Wee idea before I left to try and get the right eblow off my side on the backswing and higher hands at top of swing .  My swing can get a bit short. 

When I caught these they went well. Looked a higher flight but always cut.


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## SimonC (Feb 5, 2022)

garyinderry said:



			This week.  Wee idea before I left to try and get the right eblow off my side on the backswing and higher hands at top of swing .  My swing can get a bit short.

When I caught these they went well. Looked a higher flight but always cut.







Click to expand...

To me it looks as though you get the club in a great position in the backswing but you early extend, so you tilt back and the left shoulder comes up and out of the shot in the downswing instead of down and around which would get you way more open at impact. 

This video explains what I mean


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## garyinderry (Feb 5, 2022)

SimonC said:



			To me it looks as though you get the club in a great position in the backswing but you early extend, so you tilt back and the left shoulder comes up and out of the shot in the downswing instead of down and around which would get you way more open at impact. 

This video explains what I mean






Click to expand...


Funny I've watched that video before. Hes pretty good that guy. I've seen eric cogorno talk about similar movements.  Will give this a bash this week at the range.  Thanks


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## SimonC (Feb 5, 2022)

garyinderry said:



			Funny I've watched that video before. Hes pretty good that guy. I've seen eric cogorno talk about similar movements.  Will give this a bash this week at the range.  Thanks 

Click to expand...

Yeah he is, I looked into online lessons with him quite a way back and he was extremely expensive.


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## bobmac (Feb 5, 2022)

SimonC said:



			No why would I be hitting it left Bob, I hit it left less than I used to as I'm not flipping at impact? My ball flight has come down though.
		
Click to expand...

If you're not hitting it left, then I'm not going to say anymore


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## evemccc (Feb 5, 2022)

SimonC said:



			To me it looks as though you get the club in a great position in the backswing but you early extend, so you tilt back and the left shoulder comes up and out of the shot in the downswing instead of down and around which would get you way more open at impact.

This video explains what I mean






Click to expand...

Larry Cheung is one of the very few Golf YouTubers I watch now

Other decent (non-click-bait) golf coaches on YouTube I recommend are Jonathan Kim-Moss, Rob Cheney, and Nick Taylor 👍🏻


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## Junior (Feb 5, 2022)

garyinderry said:



			This week.  Wee idea before I left to try and get the right eblow off my side on the backswing and higher hands at top of swing .  My swing can get a bit short.

When I caught these they went well. Looked a higher flight but always cut.







Click to expand...

Not as flat as you used to be and loving the DJ wrist at the top Gaz 👍


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## garyinderry (Feb 5, 2022)

Junior said:



			Not as flat as you used to be and loving the DJ wrist at the top Gaz 👍
		
Click to expand...


It really was laughably flat.  Still gets like that with the driver at times.  Haha


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## TigerBear (Feb 5, 2022)

saving_par said:



			I had a lesson on Monday. Not played much the last few months due to a stiff lower back which is slowly improving.

Truly shocking to look how bad my swing has become looking at it on video. Huge early extension, stood up tall at impact with near vertical shaft. No wonder I can't hit more than a couple of straight shots in a row.

A lot of work required was the pro's remark!

Worked on improving hip turn on backswing, squatting into impact and making a positive turn through. Obviously felt awful buts looked way better on video.

Could barely make a decent contact but that is not the point at this stage. Club position on downswing is way from the outside but we will work on that further down the line as there was more than enough to focus on in a single session.

Going to put some hard work and effort into sorting my swing out once and for all, the last 2 or 3 seasons have been crap and instead of my best being capable of breaking 70 I can barely break 80.
		
Click to expand...

Have you always swung from the outside?

Because that brings a whole multitude of problems in itself and to be able to break 70 is unbelievable with a swing like that!


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 5, 2022)

Is it Thursday yet? Can't wait for my lesson and sort the issues. SO many inconsistent strikes and a definite feeling of not turning properly and getting to the left side. Unable to hit it and hold the finish telling in itself


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## Junior (Feb 5, 2022)

garyinderry said:



			It really was laughably flat.  Still gets like that with the driver at times.  Haha
		
Click to expand...

https://youtube.com/shorts/Vet3hYPyNg0?feature=share

Mine too.   I've been struggling getting shallower.  This was a decent one and I get away with it with the irons,  but I still get too steep.   Trying to get the shaft to match the right forearm on the way down.


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## SimonC (Feb 5, 2022)

Junior said:



https://youtube.com/shorts/Vet3hYPyNg0?feature=share

Mine too.   I've been struggling getting shallower.  This was a decent one and I getnsesy with it with the irons,  but I still get too steep.   Trying to get the shaft to match the right forearm on the way down.
		
Click to expand...

Is that at The Beeches Driving Range? I go there regularly even though it's a 40 minute drive for me from Buxton. My boys love it there too


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## SteveW86 (Feb 5, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Is it Thursday yet? Can't wait for my lesson and sort the issues. SO many inconsistent strikes and a definite feeling of not turning properly and getting to the left side. Unable to hit it and hold the finish telling in itself
		
Click to expand...

Do you not have feedback/notes you can drop back to from previous lessons? Or are these new faults coming in?


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## Junior (Feb 5, 2022)

SimonC said:



			Is that at The Beeches Driving Range? I go there regularly even though it's a 40 minute drive for me from Buxton. My boys love it there too
		
Click to expand...

Yeah,  its a great facility.   Ive booked in to see Peter Barber there next week for a lesson.   Food is amazing aswell.  

So do you play at Cavendish then being in Buxton?  You probably drive past on your way to the Beeches.  I'm the top side of Macc just as your coming down off the Car and Fiddle road.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 5, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Do you not have feedback/notes you can drop back to from previous lessons? Or are these new faults coming in?
		
Click to expand...

Been through the notes and can't see anything relating to not getting through onto the left side so fear it's a new(ish) fault. Went to the range last night and went through the usual checklist of grip, posture, alignment, takeaway (can fan inside or take it away on the outside - an area I've done a lot of work on). On camera it looked good at the top but it just falls apart on the downswing. Feels I am either sliding, or simply using the arms (so OTT). Tried to open the left foot out to give myself room to turn. There are some good ones but the trapped (or feeling trapped) ones are destructive. I'm sure it'll be something simple so get tomorrow out of the way and then wait and see on Thursday


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## SimonC (Feb 5, 2022)

Junior said:



			Yeah,  its a great facility.   Ive booked in to see Peter Barber there next week for a lesson.   Food is amazing aswell. 

So do you play at Cavendish then being in Buxton?  You probably drive past on your way to the Beeches.  I'm the top side of Macc just as your coming down off the Car and Fiddle road.
		
Click to expand...

I'm yet to eat there, but it does look good and the staff are extremely friendly. That will be good, I actually really enjoy having lessons. Let us all know how it goes.

Yes I sure do, my dad is the captain this year. I love the place it's a great course in my opinion.


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## garyinderry (Feb 5, 2022)

Junior said:



https://youtube.com/shorts/Vet3hYPyNg0?feature=share

Mine too.   I've been struggling getting shallower.  This was a decent one and I get away with it with the irons,  but I still get too steep.   Trying to get the shaft to match the right forearm on the way down.
		
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Looks a fairly repeatable move.  Now is the time to implement some changes. I find once the season starts. All bets are off and it's time to just get the ball round the course and in the hole. Good luck my man. I've subscribed to your channel so will see any swings you post.


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## Junior (Feb 6, 2022)

SimonC said:



			I'm yet to eat there, but it does look good and the staff are extremely friendly. That will be good, I actually really enjoy having lessons. Let us all know how it goes.

Yes I sure do, my dad is the captain this year. I love the place it's a great course in my opinion.
		
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Nice.  You must be a good putter to play round there off your handicap !


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## SimonC (Feb 6, 2022)

Junior said:



			Nice.  You must be a good putter to play round there off your handicap !
		
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It's not the strongest part of my game but it's far from bad, I've moved to an armlock putter and it's been great. The greens can be fun when they're fast


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## Deleted member 3432 (Feb 6, 2022)

TigerBear said:



			Have you always swung from the outside?

Because that brings a whole multitude of problems in itself and to be able to break 70 is unbelievable with a swing like that!
		
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2 years down the line I'm swinging in properly again and hitting it from the inside like I used to. Played some nice golf season just ended but still working away to improve. 

Helps massively that I have done a lot of stretching and work to loosen and manage lower back issues which were the root cause of the bad swings.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 7, 2022)

Stupid game. I went to the range tonight to try and find something before the lesson on Thursday. I didn't want to rock up with the swing in a total mess. Found something with the takeaway which feels much wider and that I must have been fanning/coming inside too much which is why it felt cramped and I struggled to get my weight across. Happy. It isn't right but think the amount of things to change will be reduced greatly and we can nip everything in the bud again as the season starts


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## bobmac (Feb 7, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Stupid game. I went to the range tonight to try and find something before the lesson on Thursday. I didn't want to rock up with the swing in a total mess. Found something with the takeaway which feels much wider and that I must have been fanning/coming inside too much which is why it felt cramped and I struggled to get my weight across. Happy. It isn't right but think the amount of things to change will be reduced greatly and we can nip everything in the bud again as the season starts
		
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You're wasting your time and money.
A playing lesson will do you more good than fiddling around with your backswing


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 7, 2022)

bobmac said:



			You're wasting your time and money.
A playing lesson will do you more good than fiddling around with your backswing
		
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I can't get it sorted. The pro isn't attached to my club and doesn't want to cancel 3-4 lessons at the range to come to my club and play/walk round


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## HomecountiesJohn (Feb 7, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I can't get it sorted. The pro isn't attached to my club and doesn't want to cancel 3-4 lessons at the range to come to my club and play/walk round
		
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What sort of pro doesn't want to earn more money to help his client? 

I'd change pro if it were me.

How about approaching your own club pro?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 7, 2022)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			What sort of pro doesn't want to earn more money to help his client?

I'd change pro if it were me.

How about approaching your own club pro?
		
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I totally agree which is why no matter what Bob says (and he may well have a point) I can't get a playing lesson. I am very happy with the guy I use and it's just frustrating he's attached to a range and it doesn't have a club with it.


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## HomecountiesJohn (Feb 7, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I totally agree which is why no matter what Bob says (and he may well have a point) I can't get a playing lesson. I am very happy with the guy I use and it's just frustrating he's attached to a range and it doesn't have a club with it.
		
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Have you got a pro attached to your club ?


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## DaveR (Feb 7, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Stupid game. I went to the range tonight to try and find something before the lesson on Thursday. I didn't want to rock up with the swing in a total mess. Found something with the takeaway which feels much wider and that I must have been fanning/coming inside too much which is why it felt cramped and I struggled to get my weight across. Happy. It isn't right but think the amount of things to change will be reduced greatly and we can nip everything in the bud again as the season starts
		
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You should concentrate on the excessive body movement in your swing. Hard to hit the ball consistently with so much movement.


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## yandabrown (Feb 7, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I totally agree which is why no matter what Bob says (and he may well have a point) I can't get a playing lesson. I am very happy with the guy I use and it's just frustrating he's attached to a range and it doesn't have a club with it.
		
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Can you not have a playing lesson with the club pro? Think of it as a mind coach v your swing/technical coach. One addresses what shots, when and why, the other doing the how.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 7, 2022)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			Have you got a pro attached to your club ?
		
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Yes and an assistant with a good reputation that came from Hoebridge. Some of the roll ups I play in have had lessons but I am very happy with the guy I use and I don't want to use another pro. I like the way the guy I use works and I am able to send videos and get feedback and he will give me five minute pointers in between lessons if I'm up there when he's working. The issue I see is another pair of eyes may want to focus on different areas to the ones I am working on with the guy I use



DaveR said:



			You should concentrate on the excessive body movement in your swing. Hard to hit the ball consistently with so much movement.
		
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When was the last time you saw my swing on film? Plenty has changed in the last few years and I've worked hard on reducing the moving parts


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## DaveR (Feb 7, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Yes and an assistant with a good reputation that came from Hoebridge. Some of the roll ups I play in have had lessons but I am very happy with the guy I use and I don't want to use another pro. I like the way the guy I use works and I am able to send videos and get feedback and he will give me five minute pointers in between lessons if I'm up there when he's working. The issue I see is another pair of eyes may want to focus on different areas to the ones I am working on with the guy I use



When was the last time you saw my swing on film? Plenty has changed in the last few years and I've worked hard on reducing the moving parts
		
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Post up a new video then for some 'expert' forum analysis.

To answer your question  I've seen the stuff you put on YouTube. Was that all filmed years ago?


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## SteveW86 (Feb 7, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Yes and an assistant with a good reputation that came from Hoebridge. Some of the roll ups I play in have had lessons but I am very happy with the guy I use and I don't want to use another pro. I like the way the guy I use works and I am able to send videos and get feedback and he will give me five minute pointers in between lessons if I'm up there when he's working. The issue I see *is another pair of eyes may want to focus on different areas to the ones I am working on with the guy I use*



When was the last time you saw my swing on film? Plenty has changed in the last few years and I've worked hard on reducing the moving parts
		
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I’m pretty sure you could say to him you don’t want to look at anything technical, just through shot choice etc.


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## SammmeBee (Feb 7, 2022)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			Have you got a pro attached to your club ?
		
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HomerJSimpson said:



			Yes and an assistant with a good reputation that came from Hoebridge. Some of the roll ups I play in have had lessons but I am very happy with the guy I use and I don't want to use another pro. I like the way the guy I use works and I am able to send videos and get feedback and he will give me five minute pointers in between lessons if I'm up there when he's working. The issue I see is another pair of eyes may want to focus on different areas to the ones I am working on with the guy I use



When was the last time you saw my swing on film? Plenty has changed in the last few years and I've worked hard on reducing the moving parts
		
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Sounds like it’s working for you, which is great to hear….roll on the wins!


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## HomecountiesJohn (Feb 7, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Yes and an assistant with a good reputation that came from Hoebridge. Some of the roll ups I play in have had lessons but I am very happy with the guy I use and I don't want to use another pro. I like the way the guy I use works and I am able to send videos and get feedback and he will give me five minute pointers in between lessons if I'm up there when he's working. The issue I see is another pair of eyes may want to focus on different areas to the ones I am working on with the guy I use
		
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Maybe a fresh pair of eyes will  pick a fault up where your preferred guy hasnt.

A playing lesson and a swing fault lesson are 2 different things.


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## TigerBear (Feb 7, 2022)

saving_par said:



			2 years down the line I'm swinging in properly again and hitting it from the inside like I used to. Played some nice golf season just ended but still working away to improve.

Helps massively that I have done a lot of stretching and work to loosen and manage lower back issues which were the root cause of the bad swings.
		
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That's brilliant you've been able to turn it around


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## Foxholer (Feb 8, 2022)

Last 'playing lesson' I had was a bit pointless!
Playing off 12, I was 1 under after 6 holes! The Pro said all I needed was 'proper focus' and took the short cut back to the clubhouse! Only ever played that well a couple of times since, both 'surprises' in 'key' rounds.


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## HeftyHacker (Feb 8, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Last 'playing lesson' I had was a bit pointless!
Playing off 12, I was 1 under after 6 holes! The Pro said all I needed was 'proper focus' and took the short cut back to the clubhouse! Only ever played that well a couple of times since, both 'surprises' in 'key' rounds.
		
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You're clearly a diamond, made under pressure!


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## bobmac (Feb 8, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			When was the last time you saw my swing on film? Plenty has changed in the last few years and I've worked hard on reducing the moving parts
		
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Ok Homer, you're playing a par 3, 185yds to the middle, no wind flat.
What club would you hit?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 8, 2022)

DaveR said:



			Post up a new video then for some 'expert' forum analysis.

To answer your question  I've seen the stuff you put on YouTube. Was that all filmed years ago?
		
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Its pleasing to see so many forum experts (with the exception of Bob who has always provided honest critique that I trust to me and many others) have my swing nailed down for me. To answer DaveR - I assume the video you are referring to is the Srixon review (as that is my last video posted). If so and you paid attention, I had been off with sciatica and so the wasn't trying to swing flat out and protecting the back to a degree so any flaws have that as the cause. 

To answer Bob, my 3H is my go to for 180-185 and so subject to where the trouble was, I'd either hit that and know if there was no trouble shot I could pitch front and run up, subject to how wet it was. If not I'd take my 5W and grip down slightly (it averages 207) and play that to the heart of the green


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## Smiffy (Feb 8, 2022)

bobmac said:



			Ok Homer, you're playing a par 3, 185yds to the middle, no wind flat.
What club would you hit?
		
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I'd personally be going with a flushed 4 iron. 
Then a chip and a putt.


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## bobmac (Feb 8, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			To answer Bob, my 3H is my go to for 180-185 and so subject to where the trouble was, I'd either hit that and know if there was no trouble shot I could pitch front and run up, subject to how wet it was. If not I'd take my 5W and grip down slightly (it averages 207) and play that to the heart of the green
		
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So if you were the same distance but the ball was sitting down in the rough and you had to open the face to fade it round some trees?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 8, 2022)

bobmac said:



			So if you were the same distance but the ball was sitting down in the rough and you had to open the face to fade it round some trees?
		
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A lot more variables. Assuming it was a competitive round then a mid-iron into position and rely on a good pitch and putt would be the prudent play. I don't think from that lie there is any merit in me going for it (even in a social game). It would be lie dependent of course and how far I would have to move it around the trees but I doubt very much I'm taking it on in most situations. Even in a match I think I stand more chance playing myself out of the hole that way where knocking back out, hitting the green, hopefully close at least asks the opponent the questions


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## DaveR (Feb 8, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Its pleasing to see so many forum experts (with the exception of Bob who has always provided honest critique that I trust to me and many others) have my swing nailed down for me. To answer DaveR - I assume the video you are referring to is the Srixon review (as that is my last video posted). If so and you paid attention, I had been off with sciatica and so the wasn't trying to swing flat out and protecting the back to a degree so any flaws have that as the cause.

To answer Bob, my 3H is my go to for 180-185 and so subject to where the trouble was, I'd either hit that and know if there was no trouble shot I could pitch front and run up, subject to how wet it was. If not I'd take my 5W and grip down slightly (it averages 207) and play that to the heart of the green
		
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The thing is, your swing in that video is the same as in all your others.


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## bobmac (Feb 8, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			A lot more variables. Assuming it was a competitive round then a mid-iron into position and rely on a good pitch and putt would be the prudent play. I don't think from that lie there is any merit in me going for it (even in a social game). It would be lie dependent of course and how far I would have to move it around the trees but I doubt very much I'm taking it on in most situations. Even in a match I think I stand more chance playing myself out of the hole that way where knocking back out, hitting the green, hopefully close at least asks the opponent the questions
		
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Good, you are improving, because in one of your videos 2018, you played both shots I've just described and on both shots you hit ''a little 4 iron''.

One tip on bunker play, if you aim square ala Gary Smith, don't open the clubface or the ball will go right


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 8, 2022)

DaveR said:



			The thing is, your swing in that video is the same as in all your others.
		
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As the last one before the Srixon video was over a year ago and as CLEARLY mentioned in post #168 much has changed hard for you to critique without any evidence. And NO I'm not putting anything else up as there will be some (Bob etc) that will offer critique but many others won't. I have explained what is going on with my swing and lessons and so I'm done


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## JamesR (Feb 8, 2022)

I had an hour on the club's simulator last week, and the Pro I played against noticed I tend to overswing a bit. So lent me his swingyde training aid.
After a few days swinging it in the garden, i tried it on the course.
Felt like I was hitting a Jon Rahm swing that finished half way back. But according to my PP's I was getting up to horizontal.

Amazing how what we feel, and what we actually do, are entirely different things!


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## garyinderry (Feb 8, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			As the last one before the Srixon video was over a year ago and as CLEARLY mentioned in post #168 much has changed hard for you to critique without any evidence. And NO I'm not putting anything else up as there will be some (Bob etc) that will offer critique but many others won't. I have explained what is going on with my swing and lessons and so I'm done
		
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Why not just post a swing and show the changes.  It would be interesting to see. I'm sure theres plenty on here who would be happy to see you make solid progress after watching your videos down the years. 

One thing I'd look at after watching that srixon video is check you using the bounce on those pitch shots. You look like your taking fairly deep divots and the course is baked out. Could very much be a reason you struggle with these shots in winter. 

I also trying try to keep your right arm from bending so much on those chip and run shots. Seems to be bending alot leading to inconsistencies of stike. Keeping both arms straighter will help with that. 

Major plus is you hole out for fun. Always very impressed with that. The work you do on that seems to working very well. 

Good luck lad.


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## spongebob59 (Feb 9, 2022)

Second lesson on the comeback trail, numbers heading in the right direction 👍


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 9, 2022)

garyinderry said:



			Why not just post a swing and show the changes.  It would be interesting to see. I'm sure theres plenty on here who would be happy to see you make solid progress after watching your videos down the years.

One thing I'd look at after watching that srixon video is check you using the bounce on those pitch shots. You look like your taking fairly deep divots and the course is baked out. Could very much be a reason you struggle with these shots in winter.

I also trying try to keep your right arm from bending so much on those chip and run shots. Seems to be bending alot leading to inconsistencies of stike. Keeping both arms straighter will help with that.

Major plus is you hole out for fun. Always very impressed with that. The work you do on that seems to working very well.

Good luck lad. 

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Short game lessons on the horizon for March and the start of the season but a chicken wing right arm is a recurring fault in my short game. In my defence I was rushing to get all the short game filming done in reducing light and I had been off the course for five weeks with sciatica and so straight out with no practice. 

Hit the range tonight before my lesson tomorrow as I like to feel I've hit balls and at least got an idea what is working well (or not) to relay back to the teaching pro at the start of the lesson. I've been trying to get my preferred draw back and had been setting up with the face square and the tiniest of closed stances and swinging along the toe line. Felt much more compact and better rotation (and got the ball to start moving right to left) so hoping it'll be more of a swing MOT and tidy up rather than any big changes


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## Wilson (Feb 9, 2022)

JamesR said:



			I had an hour on the club's simulator last week, and the Pro I played against noticed I tend to overswing a bit. So lent me his swingyde training aid.
After a few days swinging it in the garden, i tried it on the course.
Felt like I was hitting a Jon Rahm swing that finished half way back. But according to my PP's I was getting up to horizontal.

Amazing how what we feel, and what we actually do, are entirely different things!
		
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I can have the same issue, what felt like 1/4 swings were actually just short of parallel….

I‘ve got a playing lesson tomorrow,.


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## JamesR (Feb 9, 2022)

Wilson said:



			I can have the same issue, what felt like 1/4 swings were actually just short of parallel….

I‘ve got a playing lesson tomorrow,.
		
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I definitely recommend the device I tried. Gives the feeling of a short swing, but apparently it’s a full swing.
My problem is hyper mobility, which allows too much movement if unchecked.


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## garyinderry (Feb 9, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Short game lessons on the horizon for March and the start of the season but a chicken wing right arm is a recurring fault in my short game. In my defence I was rushing to get all the short game filming done in reducing light and I had been off the course for five weeks with sciatica and so straight out with no practice. 

Hit the range tonight before my lesson tomorrow as I like to feel I've hit balls and at least got an idea what is working well (or not) to relay back to the teaching pro at the start of the lesson. I've been trying to get my preferred draw back and had been setting up with the face square and the tiniest of closed stances and swinging along the toe line. Felt much more compact and better rotation (and got the ball to start moving right to left) so hoping it'll be more of a swing MOT and tidy up rather than any big changes
		
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You see that big bend of the right arm.  Try to keep that arm straighter. you will keep a better arm structure and radius of the swing. It will make your contact so much more consistent.


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## Wilson (Feb 10, 2022)

Excellent playing lesson this morning, Pro happy with my swing outside of 80yrds, I need to make better shot choices from 80yrds and in, and he sorted my putting setup out. Let's see how I play on Sunday.


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## SteveW86 (Feb 10, 2022)

@HomerJSimpson , do we get to know how your lesson went today? Hopefully ironed out the issues.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 10, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



@HomerJSimpson , do we get to know how your lesson went today? Hopefully ironed out the issues.
		
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Literally just got in. Change of grip to strengthen it. Need to keep the chest down through impact (raising up) but aside from those little tweaks hitting it great with a lovely 5-10 yard draw. Plenty to work with now and off to the club tomorrow to grind it out


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## DaveR (Feb 10, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Literally just got in. Change of grip to strengthen it. Need to keep the chest down through impact (raising up) but aside from those little tweaks hitting it great with a lovely 5-10 yard draw. Plenty to work with now and off to the club tomorrow to grind it out
		
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Should have taken my advice and saved yourself a few quid 😉


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 10, 2022)

DaveR said:



			Should have taken my advice and saved yourself a few quid 😉
		
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Why. Are you a qualifed PGA pro. Do you know my game. Thought not. Rather leave it to people I trust


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## Leftitshort (Feb 10, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Why. Are you a qualifed PGA pro. Do you know my game. Thought not. Rather leave it to people I trust
		
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Everyone knows your game. You share enough about it


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## DaveR (Feb 10, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Why. Are you a qualifed PGA pro. Do you know my game. Thought not. Rather leave it to people I trust
		
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I thought you loved a bit of bantz? Don't understand why you say that, I've never seen any evidence of it.


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## garyinderry (Feb 10, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Literally just got in. Change of grip to strengthen it. Need to keep the chest down through impact (raising up) but aside from those little tweaks hitting it great with a lovely 5-10 yard draw. Plenty to work with now and off to the club tomorrow to grind it out
		
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Good to hear you are back hitting a draw.  You must have made some nice changes


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 11, 2022)

garyinderry said:



			Good to hear you are back hitting a draw.  You must have made some nice changes 

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Grip was an issue. Had snuck weaker so we over emphasised that to almost 3-4 knuckles to get the feeling for a stronger grip. Right hand was a little underneath so tidied that up. The error I've been having on the course seems to be an early extension so that was the main focus. A feeling of keeping the chest over the ball longer and the good ones felts great compressing ball and then turf. Off to the club this afternoon to work on it some more


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## Junior (Feb 11, 2022)

Just got back from a lesson at The Beeches in Knutsford with Peter Barber.  Really enjoyed it. He explains things simply and I find it quite easy to implement the changes he makes.  

I was taking the club away slightly outside in an effort not to get too flat.  I was then having to work hard to drop it "in the slot".  That's why I was getting handsy and flipping the odd one left.  
He had me taking the club away with my hands moving over my right foot and hinging to set the club early.  It felt like I was hinging my wrists  pretty much as my hands moved away.  I then had to try to hold the angle as late as possible.   We then worked on start lines by hitting it through two alignment sticks stuck in the grass.   
Was flushing it by the end.  Shame I'm not playing this weekend 🤣


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## SimonC (Feb 12, 2022)

Junior said:



			Just got back from a lesson at The Beeches in Knutsford with Peter Barber.  Really enjoyed it. He explains things simply and I find it quite easy to implement the changes he makes. 

I was taking the club away slightly outside in an effort not to get too flat.  I was then having to work hard to drop it "in the slot".  That's why I was getting handsy and flipping the odd one left. 
He had me taking the club away with my hands moving over my right foot and hinging to set the club early.  It felt like I was hinging my wrists  pretty much as my hands moved away.  I then had to try to hold the angle as late as possible.   We then worked on start lines by hitting it through two alignment sticks stuck in the grass.  
Was flushing it by the end.  Shame I'm not playing this weekend 🤣
		
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Sounds good, getting the club into the correct position at the top of the swing definitely makes it easier on the downswing it just stops you having to compensate. 

Keep at it, scratch can't be too far away for you looking at your current handicap. Scratch is my next goal.


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## Junior (Feb 12, 2022)

SimonC said:



			Sounds good, getting the club into the correct position at the top of the swing definitely makes it easier on the downswing it just stops you having to compensate.

Keep at it, scratch can't be too far away for you looking at your current handicap. Scratch is my next goal.
		
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Cheers mate.  Being realistic, if my handicap starts with a 2 at the end of next season I'll be happy.   I dont ever think ive practised more than i am right now, plus im planning to work hard this year on the chipping and putting , so hopefully that will help shave the handicap.  

Im not long back from Portugal where I putted really well on some quite fast greens.  Ordinarily I'd have been a broken man by the end on slopey greens stimping at 11 Lol


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 12, 2022)

Very happy camper. Grip change still feels alien (which is actually a good thing as I have to focus on it) and the change to stay more over the ball with my chest working until I was under pressure and the old early extension tried desperately to take over. Managed to keep it in check most of the time. Plenty of work still to do but feel like I'm making progress and hopefully a cut coming after today


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## SteveW86 (Feb 12, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Very happy camper. Grip change still feels alien (which is actually a good thing as I have to focus on it) and the change to stay more over the ball with my chest working until I was under pressure and the old early extension tried desperately to take over. Managed to keep it in check most of the time. Plenty of work still to do but feel like I'm making progress and hopefully a cut coming after today
		
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All sound positive, but surely you know if you are getting cut or not as you know what you scored?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 12, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			All sound positive, but surely you know if you are getting cut or not as you know what you scored?
		
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I should be getting cut as a rubbish score dropped off but given up trying to work it out on WHS. I'll wait until the morning


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## Region3 (Feb 12, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I should be getting cut as a rubbish score dropped off but given up trying to work it out on WHS. I'll wait until the morning
		
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When a rubbish one drops off, you get a cut if you beat the worst differential of your counting scores.

Sorry if you already knew this.

I quite enjoy working out what difference any particular round will have but I like numbers and I know a lot of people don’t.


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## SimonC (Feb 13, 2022)

Junior said:



			Cheers mate.  Being realistic, if my handicap starts with a 2 at the end of next season I'll be happy.   I dont ever think ive practised more than i am right now, plus im planning to work hard this year on the chipping and putting , so hopefully that will help shave the handicap. 

Im not long back from Portugal where I putted really well on some quite fast greens.  Ordinarily I'd have been a broken man by the end on slopey greens stimping at 11 Lol
		
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Sounds like you're going the right way about it then with all the practice and lessons. I should focus some time on my short game too but it will have to wait until the weather picks up.

That sounds like how my dad used to be, we played in Spain on the fastest greens we've ever played on many years ago and he was 3 and 4 putting everything. He's much better now though, he needs to be though putting on our greens week in week out.


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## SimonC (Feb 13, 2022)

I had another lesson yesterday, backswing is now where we want it but I was pulling the right elbow in and behind me on the downswing. This causes the club to get a little stuck behind me and I get too narrow so we did some work rectifying this by doing what looks like a funky drill but it works well. I also had to have the feeling of pausing at the top of my swing to stop the pulling of the arms, it felt almost wooden but it kept the club in front of me.











Here's how my swing has changed in the last month and a half:


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## HeftyHacker (Feb 15, 2022)

Just got back from a lesson with a new (to me) pro.

Went with the intention of improving my long irons and hybrids as currently I've a massive gap between my driver and the rest of my bag...

Couldn't put a swing together! Spent the first 30 mins of my lesson working on my takeaway, transition and follow through (basically my whole swing) and then had a look at ball position and grip.

Honestly felt like a complete beginner - which i am in the grand scheme of things - but I'd obviously ingrained a lot of bad habits over the past few months with more regular range sessions as opposed to being on course with more punishment for bad shots.

By the end we finally got round to looking at bridging that gap at the top of the bag and was hitting it miles better and was regularly getting it out to where I wanted it to be. 

Will see how it goes for the next few weeks...


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2022)

HeftyHacker said:



			Just got back from a lesson with a new (to me) pro.

Went with the intention of improving my long irons and hybrids as currently I've a massive gap between my driver and the rest of my bag...

Couldn't put a swing together! Spent the first 30 mins of my lesson working on my takeaway, transition and follow through (basically my whole swing) and then had a look at ball position and grip.

Honestly felt like a complete beginner - which i am in the grand scheme of things - but I'd obviously ingrained a lot of bad habits over the past few months with more regular range sessions as opposed to being on course with more punishment for bad shots.

By the end we finally got round to looking at bridging that gap at the top of the bag and was hitting it miles better and was regularly getting it out to where I wanted it to be.

Will see how it goes for the next few weeks...
		
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I'm not a big fan of changing too much in one lesson but at least you were hitting good shots by the end so thats progress. It'll be interesting to see if you can take all the changes out onto the course


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## HeftyHacker (Feb 15, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I'm not a big fan of changing too much in one lesson but at least you were hitting good shots by the end so thats progress. It'll be interesting to see if you can take all the changes out onto the course
		
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I'm the same, and if I'd been hitting the ball well at the start then maybe he wouldn't have felt the need to change so much. But in his defence it felt easier and more natural by the end, and gave me a few pointers to come back to if I started slipping again.

I had basically lost all tempo and form and was trying too hard as a result.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2022)

HeftyHacker said:



			I'm the same, and if I'd been hitting the ball well at the start then maybe he wouldn't have felt the need to change so much. But in his defence it felt easier and more natural by the end, and gave me a few pointers to come back to if I started slipping again.

I had basically lost all tempo and form and was trying too hard as a result.
		
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I've had then going to a new teacher. I think it's a sub-conscious need to try and impress instead of swinging like you normally do


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## BrianM (Feb 16, 2022)

Had my last lesson of this trip away, hit the ball pretty well, my biggest problem is getting to steep.
I've just got to start implementing the changes on the course, big difference  (for me anyway) hitting at the range or simulator.
It's been a major swing change for me but I'm feeling a bit more confident it's coming together.
It felt like 3 steps back to get 1 step forward.


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## HomecountiesJohn (Feb 17, 2022)

It was a lesson but not for me..... i gave my boy a lesson today shaking hands 4&3.

His words where, "i don't think i'll ever beat my old man", he's hardly said a word since golf!!!


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## spongebob59 (Feb 17, 2022)

Lesson 3 on the comeback trail, working on a better release .
Got to try and get then feeling of with my back to target during release , feels weird.
Got to try the Ping G425's which I liked but still ££££


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 17, 2022)

HomecountiesJohn said:



			It was a lesson but not for me..... i gave my boy a lesson today shaking hands 4&3.

His words where, "i don't think i'll ever beat my old man", he's hardly said a word since golf!!!
		
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But his time will come. I can relate to him and I did this piece that GM published in the magazine a few years back https://www.three-off-the-tee.com/post/the-generation-game Enjoy it while you can


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## Albo (Feb 23, 2022)

Albo said:



			This thread convinced me that I would actually benefit from lessons, I spend stupid money on golf membership to 2 courses, new equipment, launch monitors, balls, clothing etc etc etc and my golf has stalled and is regressing backwards of late.  Yet despite all of the outlay, I wont dump £60 on a lesson to help myself, rather watch youtube and put a bad version of a fix ontop of a bad foundation and expect everything to get better.
After playing last weekend on Saturday and fatting 75% of my shots off the deck, I applied a youtube fix, which worked and on Sunday I thinned about 60% of my shots, i decided enough was enough.

Id done some research on coaches near by and booked myslef lesson for yesterday.  The guy was really good with me, talked about what was wrong in my mind with my golf (poor swing, too many fat/thin shots, too inconsistent), what I wanted to achieve from lessons (be able to actually play as a reasonable single figure capper, currently off 9.8 but thats last years number and on my home course and usually as soon as I go to any other course im struggling to break 90, along side consistency in strike / shot shape).
I also told him if things worked out and I can see progress i'd happily rip up my swing and totally revamp it, im not looking for a quick fix.
So had the lesson, I asked him to be brutally honest about my swing, which he was and worked on;
Set up: Ball position, posture, hand poaition, left foot
Take away; right hip movement and left arm position at the top
Downswing; impact position and low point of the swing.
Took a while to get used to a new way of standing and swinging and as i've been coming up off the ball in my downswing (leading to fat or thin shots and shots very high on the club face), hardest bit was trusting to stay down and commit to the low point of my swing way ahead of the ball.  After a few bad hits ot started to click and I started to connect much better with the balls, he spayed some foot spray on the club and at one point I hit 4 shots ina row out of the middle 3/4 groves up, that may not sound like much, but to me I can see the improvement, better still I can feel it. Post lesson I got about 50 balls, and would honestly say that 35/40 of them were as better or as good as the best strikes id hit pre lesson and ot would have taken me 100s of balls to hit 40 of that quality.  For reference last weekend over 2 round, I felt id middled 1 iron shot in total.

Need to stick at it now and not lapse into old ways and not watch anymore youtube!

My body aches this morning and given the amount of golf I usually play thats very unusual, so I am moat definitely using different muscles or the same muscles differently.
		
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Had a second lesson today after a covid related cancellation. Checked what id been working on in the last lesson, right hip, left arm both much better and now feeling natural which is good, I was worried that as they were feeling natural I may have lapsed back go old swing feel but no.
Still struggling with low point in the swing, pretty much no fats these days but too many thins so had more work to do on staying down and commiting to hitting a divot in front of the ball (I really struggle having been a sweeper my whole life).
Worked today on that and also why my club was coming in open and im working hard on shutting it down leading to either pull hooks when too closed and or fade/slice if I dont close it down enough.  Good work on a feeling of my right hand bring on top of the shaft for a while until i was starting the ball left and curving it away, then moving onto aiming straight and having the right hand underneath (so ball goes way right) then back on top so ot goes way left, then finding a middle feel so it goes straighter. Then points between those, on a scale of 0 to 10 left or 0 to 10 right, 0 being straight 10 being the extream left or right, basically to give me a better feel of where the club face is in my swing with relation to what my hands are doing. I was basically rolling my wrists over on my back swing which was opening the face.

Anyway.... that has given me some stuff to work on, strike was still getting better (not great) but at least im underatanding


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## spongebob59 (Feb 24, 2022)

3rd lesson on the comeback trail, working on release without spinning out, even the silly little clips were going a decent distance.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 24, 2022)

Albo said:



			Had a second lesson today after a covid related cancellation. Checked what id been working on in the last lesson, right hip, left arm both much better and now feeling natural which is good, I was worried that as they were feeling natural I may have lapsed back go old swing feel but no.
Still struggling with low point in the swing, pretty much no fats these days but too many thins so had more work to do on staying down and commiting to hitting a divot in front of the ball (I really struggle having been a sweeper my whole life).
Worked today on that and also why my club was coming in open and im working hard on shutting it down leading to either pull hooks when too closed and or fade/slice if I dont close it down enough.  Good work on a feeling of my right hand bring on top of the shaft for a while until i was starting the ball left and curving it away, then moving onto aiming straight and having the right hand underneath (so ball goes way right) then back on top so ot goes way left, then finding a middle feel so it goes straighter. Then points between those, on a scale of 0 to 10 left or 0 to 10 right, 0 being straight 10 being the extream left or right, basically to give me a better feel of where the club face is in my swing with relation to what my hands are doing. I was basically rolling my wrists over on my back swing which was opening the face.

Anyway.... that has given me some stuff to work on, strike was still getting better (not great) but at least im underatanding
		
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spongebob59 said:



			3rd lesson on the comeback trail, working on release without spinning out, even the silly little clips were going a decent distance.
		
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Glad to see the lessons are working. Keep the hard work up and hopefully we'll be able to play soon without excessive winds making life even harder. I had a lesson a few weeks back but had been struggling to get any range time because of the storms and even on other days with the wind here gusting around 35mph at other times it didn't seem worth it. Managed a session on Monday and another last night to work on my own changes (post #203). Off tomorrow so going to hit some balls at the club (and some pitching work) and then got 18 holes off the yellows in the afternoon. Hoping it'll start coming together properly. Really excited again about my golf and can't wait for the season to start. I'm even going to start going to the club after work from next week for a few hours practice (mainly short game)


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## IainP (Feb 28, 2022)

Had my second Gears lesson today. Quite useful being able to compare with previous, and captured more swings during the session this time to demonstrate result of a change. This is how they draw you in & grab you! ££ 😆
Note to self - need to stop playing golf-swing soon 🤣


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 1, 2022)

I've got a lesson this afternoon.  Will be interesting as the things my pro has had me working on seem to be starting to deliver.  But I know that I can hit decent shots without me actually sorting my underlying swing issues.  Hopefully I'm on the right track but only he can tell me definitively.

I think 'with trepidation' describes how I am feeling about the lesson. But also a little excited that I might be sorting something that I have struggled with and had to manage for some 35yrs.


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## SurreyGolfer (Mar 1, 2022)

Had a lesson on Friday to work on things off the tee, having issues with the flight starting right and then slicing/spinning further right. The pro filmed me and, shock, the clubface was pointing right at impact and slicing across the ball. Has given me a few things to work on....grip was fine, more about trying to 'get the toe to win the race to the ball against the heel'


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 1, 2022)

SurreyGolfer said:



			Had a lesson on Friday to work on things off the tee, having issues with the flight starting right and then slicing/spinning further right. The pro filmed me and, shock, the clubface was pointing right at impact and slicing across the ball. Has given me a few things to work on....grip was fine, more about trying to 'get the toe to win the race to the ball against the heel'
		
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I always find it so enlightening when I seem my swing on video and the pro explains why things aren't working. At least you have stuff to work on so hopefully they'll fall into place and you'll be bombing straight ones again


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 1, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I've got a lesson this afternoon.  Will be interesting as the things my pro has had me working on seem to be starting to deliver.  But I know that I can hit decent shots without me actually sorting my underlying swing issues.  Hopefully I'm on the right track but only he can tell me definitively.

I think 'with trepidation' describes how I am feeling about the lesson. But also a little excited that I might be sorting something that I have struggled with and had to manage for some 35yrs.
		
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Excellent lesson in the studio.  Pro confirmed that I am most certainly on the right track but reinforced what I must keep working on to bed it in.  Plus he pointed out a tweak I needed to do to the ball position at address with the driver - and explained why I sometimes felt uncomfortable at address with driver and why it went wrong - and the tweak worked...with drives running out to about 250yds - and that'll do me just grand for starters - just wait when I am doing more than a half swing  (actually not bothered about working on getting more than 250yds with driver - consistency is the thing for me not length)


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## SteveW86 (Mar 4, 2022)

Good lesson today, hopefully finally cracked (hopefully) why I can only seem to do half a swing. By the end of the lesson I had a extra 8 mph ball speed with 7 iron which will certainly help. Waiting on pics/videos from the session, so will post those up when then come. 

Definitely some strange feeling positions to get into, but by the end of the lesson it was all feeling great.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 4, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Good lesson today, hopefully finally cracked (hopefully) why I can only seem to do half a swing. By the end of the lesson I had a extra 8 mph ball speed with 7 iron which will certainly help. Waiting on pics/videos from the session, so will post those up when then come.

Definitely some strange feeling positions to get into, but by the end of the lesson it was all feeling great.
		
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That's a good increase so hopefully will translate into extra distance without loss of accuracy. Not a great one for trying to hit positions and I learn more as a feel player but sounds like you've nailed it and so interesting to see how you get on


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## spongebob59 (Mar 4, 2022)

4th comeback lesson, working on better path and wrist position on the down swing through impact. Got some drills to help. 
Cheated the backswing to get me in the best position so guess once I've got this sorted we'll go back to that.


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## SteveW86 (Mar 4, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			That's a good increase so hopefully will translate into extra distance without loss of accuracy. Not a great one for trying to hit positions and I learn more as a feel player but sounds like you've nailed it and so interesting to see how you get on
		
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It’s all feeling very positive at the moment. Just need to get to the end of this month where we will hopefully be back onto a measured course and the cards will start counting again.


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## BrianM (Mar 10, 2022)

Played on Sunday just past and hit the ball the best I’ve ever hit it, not even sure how to be honest, just trusted the process and didn’t have any swing thoughts, picked a target and away I went.
Think my Dad and brother were in shock with how well I played, I’m in shock 😂😂
Got a driver fitting tomorrow night 😀


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 10, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Played on Sunday just past and hit the ball the best I’ve ever hit it, not even sure how to be honest, just trusted the process and didn’t have any swing thoughts, picked a target and away I went.
Think my Dad and brother were in shock with how well I played, I’m in shock 😂😂
Got a driver fitting tomorrow night 😀
		
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Top man. It's brilliant when a lesson and all the hard work comes off out on the course. Enjoy the fitting and keep the good form going


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## spongebob59 (Mar 12, 2022)

Lesson yesterday , spent some time on improving width on th back swing and then some drills on the downswing using Justin Rose as an example.
Found this on YouTube which sums this up pretty nicely


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## Tashyboy (Mar 12, 2022)

spongebob59 said:



			Lesson yesterday , spent some time on improving width on th back swing and then some drills on the downswing using Justin Rose as an example.
Found this on YouTube which sums this up pretty nicely







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😳 that’s my fault right there. And a new drill to practise. I get to the top with a full takeaway fine but my downswing is exactly as he described. 😳


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## DaveR (Mar 20, 2022)

Been having lessons and knew that things would go backwards before improving but swing felt much better yesterday and ball striking the best it's been for ages.


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## BrianM (May 30, 2022)

Had a driver lesson this afternoon before my fitting a week today, just so I can work on it to get the best out of the fitting.
Was hitting it well, really well, the poor ones were a shorter backswing.
Overall only a couple of small tweaks, so I'll be working on it all this week.
Hit 3 other drivers at the end....
Ping G425 - The noise is horrendous and not great at address for me.
Callaway Rogue - Looks good at address, was always going left for me, probably me though.
Titleist TS1 - Looked great at address (I like it to look square when looking down), hit a couple of belters with it as well.

In my head I've got a Titleist bought already, hopefully next week the numbers will stack up with it.


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## SteveW86 (May 30, 2022)

Had a lesson on Friday last week, just a bit of a check in. It appears I had slipped back into poor rotation and was relying too much on my hands to square everything up which was resulting in a two way miss.

The feel was to get my back right pocket pointing at the target and my left shoulder lower as it rotates under my chin on the back swing. Then almost feeling a pause at the top so that I complete the turn and don’t rush into the down swing. Then just feeling like I’m turning through the ball to a finish.

Overall the changes felt great, club and ball speed were up significantly and a much more consistent shape on the flight.


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## BrianM (Jul 4, 2022)

A chipping lesson for me tonight, a drill that really worked was an alignment stick about 5” behind the ball and a more upright swing, actually did really well, I’m normally a thinner when chipping but not one tonight (typical 😂)
Hit 25 on the range before hand, hitting the ball lovely, feeling not too far away from really biting the bullet and playing more competitive golf.


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## Mike79 (Jul 7, 2022)

Block of 6 lessons was my fathers day gift... 1st lessons in 25 years!

Had 2 lessons so far... 

Lesson 1 identified some positives in my swing, but a number of basic issues. So a few drills to get my hips rotating as I was swinging arms and shoulders only. Definitely saw some more consistency with iron play from this (and some odd looks from my wife as I'd been practicing the drills at home!). Also looked at wedge play where I was prone to a shank on a full wedge. Few drills around just missing a tee in the ground, more weight in heels and being further from ball at address.

Was pretty stupid having this lesson in the week of the club champs but have to start sometime!!

Lesson 2 got me working on clearing my right elbow from my right hip on the downswing, more towards the motion of a baseball swing / swinging an axe at a tree. I'm seeing more consistency from the fundamental changes from these 2 lessons, distance and dispersion both improving. 

I need to ensure I get to the range a couple of times in the week to make it all feels "normal" before games on the weekends though. Looking forward to lesson 3 next week...


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## chico (Jul 17, 2022)

Had my first lesson in about 15 years last week. Unbelievable how simple it has been to fix the simple things. All the things I thought I done correctly but didn't. 
Booked another lesson 2 weeks from now, I actually believe I can get better at this game.


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## FELL75 (Jul 17, 2022)

Had first ever putting lesson this week and took it on the course this morning. Changed my grip, so obviously feels very strange having gripped a putter one way for 30 years. Having filmed the before and after I can see the benefits. The strike does feel a bit clicky, I prefer a duller strike. One thing I can't get my head round is that when I casually hit the ball one handed across the green towards my bag, it feels so much more from the sweet spot, a nice strike perhaps I'm more relaxed/better swing. Maybe I'm more upright, and the right hand is at the top of the grip rather than below. Perhaps I should put left hand below right. Grrr so many questions! Perhaps I ought to"ask the experts"....


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## RichA (Jul 25, 2022)

My first ever driver lesson today. 
While the results of my good drives on course are very good, the bad ones are dreadful.
The first few I hit in the the lesson were very good results, then he showed me the videos and launch monitor data. Club head speed just over 100 but angle of attack -2° and spin 4500 rpm. His conclusion, the ones you get away with will be good but the bad ones will be really bad. No surprises there then.
It's interesting when you kind of know what you're doing wrong (not rotating on the backswing) but convince yourself it's not a problem, until it's actually shown to you on video.
Really good teacher. He made me feel quite positive and gave me just a couple of really good things to work on. And finished by saying, "Let me know how you're getting on in a few weeks," as opposed to, "Same time next week."


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## spongebob59 (Aug 4, 2022)

Off to Bearsted GC for a 1:1 aimpoint lesson, originally booked back in 2018 but a few things have got in the way since then 😂.


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