# Warning for diesel owners - I'll never have another



## Maninblack4612 (Mar 25, 2015)

Once upon a time a diesel vehicle was uber reliable & you could drive 200,000 miles without touching the engine. Then someone thought "it's not very fast, let's put in a turbo". Then it produced too much torque so the dual mass flywheel had to be invented. Then the EEC decided they produced too much soot so a Diesel Particulate Filter had to be fitted. I've had three turbo diesel Zafiras & the only problems I had had with any of them until last week was with the turbos & DMF. Last week it was the DPF, which became completely blocked, apparently as a result of lots of short journeys not allowing the engine to warm up. My repair man costed a replacement at Â£800 from Vauxhall. I managed to get one from Cats4us.co.uk for under Â£200 and it's now being fitted.

Now modern diesels are as fast as petrol cars. Trouble is they have become about as reliable and the fuel consumption is not that much better either. It's petrol for me next time.

Be warned, if you use a diesel only for short journeys it needs at least 10 minutes at 2,500 reves every couple of weeks to burn off the gunge in the filter. I didn't know this, I do now!


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## Stuey01 (Mar 25, 2015)

It's for this reason that my car is a fiat panda 100hp petrol for in town and my wife's is a turbo diesel bmw that we use for further afield trips.


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## bluewolf (Mar 25, 2015)

To be fair, the DPF should have been explained to you when you bought the car. I know a few who've fallen foul of that little problem. Try it on a new BMW X5. It makes Â£800 look like pocket money. 

As regards the rest, maybe the issue is with Vauxhall? I've put the best end of 300k miles on a Nissan and Honda Diesel engine over the last 5 years without any issue whatsoever.


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## adam6177 (Mar 25, 2015)

I recently bought an Insignia estate diesel and heard everything you've just said as potential issues..... luckily my wife does a 26 mile journey each way 5 days per week so no clogging issues.


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## Maninblack4612 (Mar 25, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			To be fair, the DPF should have been explained to you when you bought the car. I know a few who've fallen foul of that little problem. Try it on a new BMW X5. It makes Â£800 look like pocket money. 

As regards the rest, maybe the issue is with Vauxhall? I've put the best end of 300k miles on a Nissan and Honda Diesel engine over the last 5 years without any issue whatsoever.
		
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Expensive lesson. I bought the car used & nobody explained that to me. The DMF failed within a couple of weeks & was replaced under the warranty. The rest were relatively minor problems, but always turbo related. Just don't think they're such a great idea unless you do a very high mileage.


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## bluewolf (Mar 25, 2015)

Maninblack4612 said:



			Expensive lesson. I bought the car used & nobody explained that to me. The DMF failed within a couple of weeks & was replaced under the warranty. The rest were relatively minor problems, but always turbo related. Just don't think they're such a great idea unless you do a very high mileage.
		
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I would agree with that last statement. My annual mileage is about to drop through the floor, so the 2.0 litre diesel will be replaced my a smaller petrol car.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 25, 2015)

To be fair the whole issue of DPF and short journeys have been very well publicised and there is a lot of info out there regarding them. The information and advice is there, it is up to you as the buyer to look into it. 

Edit - Just seen your latest post. Your comment about high mileage is correct. They are completely wrong for short journeys now. The difference between suitability for petrol and diesel has never been more marked.


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## CMAC (Mar 25, 2015)

and petrol is cheaper than diesel


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## DanFST (Mar 25, 2015)

Hack the inside of the DPF out, jobs a good'un.


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 25, 2015)

DanFST said:



			Hack the inside of the DPF out, jobs a good'un.
		
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And fail the MOT straight away.


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## DanFST (Mar 25, 2015)

Bunkermagnet said:



			And fail the MOT straight away.
		
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No. Unless i've completely missed something and they now go into the ECU to check regen cycles?


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## Dan2501 (Mar 25, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			As regards the rest, maybe the issue is with Vauxhall? I've put the best end of 300k miles on a Nissan and Honda Diesel engine over the last 5 years without any issue whatsoever.
		
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This. My Toyota Yaris has 191,000 on the clock, and is still going very strong. Japanese seem to do great diesel engines.


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## SVB (Mar 25, 2015)

Had vaxhall and it died.  Had ford focus and dual mass flywheel failed and cost a fortune followed by clutch slave cylinder a week later (common apprently so why didn't dealer tell me and replace while in bits - a cheaper looking nasty plastic part I have never seen!).

Now had 3 x skoda (read VW) and, touch wood, bullet proof with over 195,000 miles on the last one.

Conclusion - buy german / japenese for happy motoring.


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## drdel (Mar 25, 2015)

Don't overreact to a few exceptions, most diesel cars have routines in their software to 'clean' the DPF that work well.


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## GreiginFife (Mar 25, 2015)

DMF is also a bit of a con IMO, one went in my JTD Alfa GT so I just got a standard flywheel with a conversion kit for about a third of the cost and there was no noticible difference to the engine balance during gear changes or when putting power down. 
Guy I did apprenticeship with works for for Mercedes now and agrees that they actually do very little after a few months of use anyway.

DPF can be cycled by using a machine like Tech2 or Opcom.

I think its a bit of a generlisation overall though, last 3 cars have been reasonable mid range power diesels (165, 155 and 170bhp) BMW did 90k with not a single issue, Alfa did 107k and still on original DPF (ok the EGR is another matter but thats a Fiat block issue and would be the same engine in a pre 2012 1.9 CDTi Vauxhall - Z19DTH or Y19DTL variant).
My current A Class has a DPF cycle built in to the system software. Every 15k I think. Not hit that yet though.


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## chrisd (Mar 25, 2015)

My Vauxhall dealer explained the problem and cure when I bought my Astra. I find that forum meets all requiring a long drive cures the problem


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## bladeplayer (Mar 25, 2015)

Between re generating DPF's & faulty EGR Exhaust Gas  Recirculation valves all this new technology will make it hard to buy a decent second hand diesel VW  Audi Skoda car in a few year unless a cheaper supplier (spurious ) can be found 

Yes DPF can be bypassed & ECU mapped to think they are reading them on most models now


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## rickg (Mar 25, 2015)

Mine's a 640D M Sport Coupe with a 3 litre twin Turbo.......mind you it doesnt sit at low revs much so I reckon I'll be alright


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## Smiffy (Mar 26, 2015)

When somebody comes into the showroom or onto the forecourt asking for a Diesel car, I'll always ask how many miles they are doing a year.
If they are doing only a very low mileage, certainly under 10k I'll always mention the benefits of driving a petrol car to them.
A Diesel car is normally more expensive than the equivalent petrol one (in the Qashqai range, as much as Â£1750.00 in some instances) and unless they are doing a high mileage they will never make up the deficit in fuel savings.
Some people like the low down torque that a Diesel car gives them, so the above information won't sway them one way or the other.


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## Beezerk (Mar 26, 2015)

My previous Mazda 6 was a nightmare for the DPF filter warning despite doing maybe 1,000 miles a week, it seemed to pop up on a monthly basis. I also somehow managed to blow the turbo on that car as well :whoo:My current Insignia is much better, maybe not as refined as the Mazda but I can't say I've had many problems in 2 or 3 years, it does get services regularly mind.
I have a smallish van on order which should arrive soon, not as comfy as a car but I need the extra space (for clubs obviously ).


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## Hobbit (Mar 26, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			When somebody comes into the showroom or onto the forecourt asking for a Diesel car, I'll always ask how many miles they are doing a year.
If they are doing only a very low mileage, certainly under 10k I'll always mention the benefits of driving a petrol car to them.
A Diesel car is normally more expensive than the equivalent petrol one (in the Qashqai range, as much as Â£1750.00 in some instances) and unless they are doing a high mileage they will never make up the deficit in fuel savings.
Some people like the low down torque that a Diesel car gives them, so the above information won't sway them one way or the other.
		
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What he sez.

The was a guy on the radio from the RAC last week. He said that if you're not doing over 15k miles a year you'll be better off with a petrol car.


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## Kellfire (Mar 26, 2015)

Got myself an older diesel last year just as a long range motorway burner. Had loads of DPF problems instantly as it hadn't been driven much in a while. Took it back, they regened it and basically fine since. Sometimes the light comes on when I gun it up a hill to overtake because the engines high mileage so chucks out enough soot to make the sensor think its in trouble but it soon clears itself.


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## MegaSteve (Mar 26, 2015)

Herein lies the problems of modern motoring... My old bangers used to get me from A to B equally effectively [most of the time]... And, when they went wrong most repairs cost less than a score...


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## Maninblack4612 (Mar 26, 2015)

Oh joy! DPF fixed & I now have the common problem with the swirl valves, requiring a new manifold, which looks like it can only be done by removing the engine. Oh for the days of the simple petrol engine with a carburettor & magneto. I could fix them myself!


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## Maninblack4612 (Mar 28, 2015)

Collecting my (nearly) new petrol Zafira on Tuesday. Didn't want to change cars but thought it was the best thing to do. Need a reliable car while I'm still working.


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## Maninblack4612 (Apr 1, 2015)

A sequel to my sorry tale. As a result of the swirl valve problem the brand new DPF became completely blocked within 40 miles & I had to be towed to Bristol Street Motors to px my car. Fortunately, they honoured the px price we'd already agreed. This is after the garage who replaced the DPF advised me it was OK to drive - wrong! and that the DPF couldn't be cleaned - wrong! Now negotiating to have their bill reduced. Important to find a mechanic who understands these complicated engines, the internet is full of stories about expensive repairs & misdiagnoses by repairers who don't know what they're doing.


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## User62651 (Apr 1, 2015)

Feel your pain, I had a Citreon C5 1600 estate which was a big roomy motor and went forever on a tank of diesel and I miss. However DPF issues arose and condemned the car due to repair costs, damn things are a menace, was told to run the car in 3rd for 20 miles at 4000 prms by garage to clear the thing but it didn't work, tried additives etc - on one occasion the car went into limp mode (due to DPF) climbing over the Soutra hill south of Edinburgh with an artic bearing down on me, brown trousers time!

There are companies out there offering to remove dpf's but where that leaves you re MOTs I don't know.

Ended up trading in for a petrol Hyundai Tucson.
I drive a Yeti diesel through work and its been fine but is on a lower mileage.


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## Maninblack4612 (Apr 1, 2015)

maxfli65 said:



			Feel your pain, I had a Citreon C5 1600 estate which was a big roomy motor and went forever on a tank of diesel and I miss. However DPF issues arose and condemned the car due to repair costs, damn things are a menace, was told to run the car in 3rd for 20 miles at 4000 prms by garage to clear the thing but it didn't work, tried additives etc - on one occasion the car went into limp mode (due to DPF) climbing over the Soutra hill south of Edinburgh with an artic bearing down on me, brown trousers time!

There are companies out there offering to remove dpf's but where that leaves you re MOTs I don't know.

Ended up trading in for a petrol Hyundai Tucson.
I drive a Yeti diesel through work and its been fine but is on a lower mileage.
		
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Apparently you can remove the guts from the DPF and program the car's computer to bypass the exhaust gas recirculation valve but whether the car would pass the MOT emissions test is debatable. If you get caught you can be prosecuted for Vehicle Excise fraud & be fined Â£5,000. Hardly worth the risk.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 1, 2015)

It would fail the MOT as your car is supposed to have it and you are removing it. In addition you would be in trouble insurance wise as you are altering the car. Insurance companies love a technicality.


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## triple_bogey (Apr 1, 2015)

Maninblack4612 said:



			Collecting my (nearly) new petrol Zafira on Tuesday. Didn't want to change cars but thought it was the best thing to do. Need a reliable car while I'm still working.
		
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Hope you did you're homework better this time. As according to JD Power surveys, the Zafira's don't fare too well reliability wise.


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## DanFST (Apr 1, 2015)

maxfli65 said:



			There are companies out there offering to remove dpf's but where that leaves you re MOTs I don't know.
		
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If you remove the guts, you will be fine. No MOT fail.


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## Jensen (Apr 1, 2015)

My old C250 Turbodiesel Merc has had no problems ( touch wood). 191,000 on the clock and still going strong. Independent dealer I take it to has seen em with 300k plus on the clock.
German engineering......


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 1, 2015)

Key phrase there is old. Less parts added on that cause problems now, probably less electronics as well. The older Mercs, E class in particular, were absolute work horses, in the nicest possible way, and go round the clock many times over. I bet your old Merc has never even heard of a DPF.


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## lex! (Apr 1, 2015)

CMAC said:



			and petrol is cheaper than diesel
		
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^ Yes, isn't this the most important point? I never even considered buying diesel when I got my new motor. Noisy, smelly things. The point of them was that, 20 years ago, diesel was miles cheaper than petrol, especially on the continent, so it was worth the extra outlay and the fuel economy returns in those days.


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## Maninblack4612 (May 10, 2015)

Just a follow up. I'm enjoying my new petrol vehicle,  smooth & quiet. Also discovererd that modern diesels are even more complicated. In addition to the dreaded DPF they now, in order to reduce Nitrous Oxide emissions, have to have a pump fitted, which injects pee into the exhaust. Well, a mixture of urea & water actually, but that's more or less the same. There are up to 12 sensors fitted to monitor the process and you have to fill up the tank every 5,000 miles. If you don't, the car goes into limp mode & eventually won't let you restart it. The stuff is called Adblue & any vehicle with a badge saying "Blutech" or " Blumotion" have got them. More & more complicated, more & more to go wrong.


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## 6inchcup (May 10, 2015)

my car a new INSIGNIA CDTI has a self cleaning system that if you havnt done the miles or done a lot of stop start trips goes into cleaning mode, never had a problem with any of my cars.


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## MarkA (May 10, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			This. My Toyota Yaris has 191,000 on the clock, and is still going very strong. Japanese seem to do great diesel engines.
		
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 Got to disagree there I had a RAV 4 t180 diesel it was a nightmare with DPF and EGR problems - I won't buy another Toyota!


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## MarkA (May 10, 2015)

Jensen said:



			My old C250 Turbodiesel Merc has had no problems ( touch wood). 191,000 on the clock and still going strong. Independent dealer I take it to has seen em with 300k plus on the clock.
German engineering......
		
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 no its probably has got a dpf on it - is it pre 2006?


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## Kellfire (May 11, 2015)

My car gave up the ghost last week on the A19. Should find out today what the damage is but if it needs replaced I'll almost certainly be looking at a petrol family sized car like a Focus.


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## MarkA (May 11, 2015)

MarkA said:



			no its probably hasnt got a dpf on it - is it pre 2006?
		
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that should say it probably hasn't got a dpf on it


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## Lump (May 11, 2015)

Diesel are a dying breed. Twin charged petrols, combined with lightweight bodies are the future. Pollution regs are getting so much tighter. I've read that London are thinking of banning all diesels within the congestion zones in years to come.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 11, 2015)

Newer diesels are EURO VI compliant, my Volvo is, and that is fine for London. Saying that I would never drive through London, EVER, but if I did my engine would pass the test. Newer engines are coming through that are cleaner and should address the issues raised recently.


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## Maninblack4612 (May 11, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Newer diesels are EURO VI compliant, my Volvo is, and that is fine for London. Saying that I would never drive through London, EVER, but if I did my engine would pass the test. Newer engines are coming through that are cleaner and should address the issues raised recently.
		
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But only at the expense of becoming more & more complicated, which was my original point.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 11, 2015)

Agreed. I take part in a car forum, Volvo, and the people on there with older diesels scoff at the modern problems. They can have pre dpf, big heavy cars with 10yr old engines returning high 40's, low 50's mpg with no issues. They dread their beloved cars dying so they have to get a modern one.


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## Kellfire (May 11, 2015)

Just heard from the mechanic... EGR was falling apart. Shock horror!


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## Maninblack4612 (May 11, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			Just heard from the mechanic... EGR was falling apart. Shock horror!
		
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Quelle surprise.


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