# Practice Routine



## ScratchSRL (Apr 17, 2014)

Guys, 

After a trip to the driving range I have realised that I just hit balls aimlessly! 

Does anyone have a decent practice routine that they go through at the range or on the practice round. 

Cheers in advance!


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## Alex1975 (Apr 17, 2014)

I have lots but the most most most important thing when practicing is to have a target, if you dont the target becomes the ball and you will hit poor shots. Make sure you have a target. Work on things your bad at not that your good at.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 17, 2014)

I use this as a basis of something more productive http://www.mygripzone.com/


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## HawkeyeMS (Apr 17, 2014)

The rare times I do go to the range I have two 'games'.

One is quite common amongst many people and that is hit shots as if you were playing your course.

The second one relies on your range having decent targets. Mine has raised greens with flags in so I will try to hit 3 consecutive shots onto one of the greens before moving to the next and see how many targets I can get through without missing. That way you put pressure on your shots. It's quite difficult doing consecutive shots so you could have 5 shots at each target and try to hit it with 3 of them before moving to the next target.

Another option is to dump the range and practice your short game.


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## ScratchSRL (Apr 17, 2014)

Agree on dumping the range, I often try and just do pitching and chipping, its the scoring irons though they are where the practice is. I think ill come up with something and potentially share it if it works!


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## Spear-Chucker (Apr 17, 2014)

Don't have a rigid structure as that's just dull. Will always have a purpose though.

I'll always play to a target, could be a tree in the distance or using a couple of markers as 'goalposts'. Invariably I'm imagining holes on difference courses as this helps with planning shot shapes and club selection. Won't hit anymore than 5-10 shots with any club before changing to another. Always pick a line before the shot. Used to hit balls for hours but 20-30 mins is plenty now for a few drives and mostly short irons/wedges.


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## srixon 1 (Apr 17, 2014)

I love seeing people turn up at the range, pull out driver straight away and proceed to hit balls like a machine gun. I've actually seen people lining up their next ball before the previous one has landed or stopped rolling. What is the point?


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## Foxholer (Apr 17, 2014)

Saw this article recently. 

http://online.wsj.com/news/article_...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer


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## londonlewis (Apr 17, 2014)

I agree with the other comments. 

I tend to start with my wedges and aim for target bins at 50-65 yards. But you need to hit these targets with all 4 wedges so you know you can control your distances. 

I then hit 8, 6, 4 iron before going through hybrid, 3 wood, driver and back up through 5, 7, 9 iron. 

When hitting full shots, I always pick a target and I always decide if I am going to hit my target with a draw, fade or straight shot. I also put the pressure on by pretending there is water on the left or right hand side of my target so a shot is only good enough if I hit the exact shot I was trying to. 

The idea I always have is to practice the things I am worst at - it can make you look very average at times but it is worth it. I also always try to put as much pressure on myself as possible by imagining I need to hit these shots for a win or whatever. It helps you when you need to perform under real pressure. 


BUT .... 

If you are warming up before teeing off, I wouldn't recommend this. I would only recommend getting loose before your tee time as that is not the time you want to be practicing!


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## pokerjoke (Apr 17, 2014)

I like to hit a lot of balls from the same spot at a flag.
Just so I can ingrain my distances.
I usually do this from 122 yards with my wedge down to chipping around the greens
from dodgy lies.
For me the practice area is all about set up,concentrating on tempo and rythym.
Of course on the course it will be a bit different but knowing exact yardages will
ultimately put you nearer the hole.


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## Foxholer (Apr 17, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			....
I would only recommend getting loose before your tee time as that is not the time you want to be practicing!
		
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Absolutely! Previous practice means you are perfect!

And the worst thing to do on the putting green before you go out is to practice missing 3-4 Footers! A few 18 inch ones to hear the ball drop into the cup are the best final putts.


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## NorfolkShaun (Apr 17, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			And the worst thing to do on the putting green before you go out is to practice missing 3-4 Footers! A few 18 inch ones to hear the ball drop into the cup are the best final putts.
		
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Good advice here, noting worse on the first green thinking about the three footers you missed on the practice green.


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## londonlewis (Apr 17, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Absolutely! Previous practice means you are perfect!

And the worst thing to do on the putting green before you go out is to practice missing 3-4 Footers! A few 18 inch ones to hear the ball drop into the cup are the best final putts.
		
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You have swung and missed there Foxholer. You are now playing 2 off the tee.


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## Scooby999 (Apr 17, 2014)

I start with a warm up just swinging the club to get the body into the rhythm of the swing movement without hitting a ball. I always try to go through a basic stretch routine.

start by hitting 4/5 balls with each club to get a feel and rhythm going all the way up to driver. I then " play the course" as I would hope to  going through the clubs or if I have been struggling on any part then would concentrate on it!

i will then go through chipping/putting/bunker drills. Takes about an hour tops!


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## Stuey01 (Apr 17, 2014)

srixon 1 said:



			I love seeing people turn up at the range, pull out driver straight away and proceed to hit balls like a machine gun. I've actually seen people lining up their next ball before the previous one has landed or stopped rolling. What is the point?
		
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Oi! I resemble that remark!


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## srixon 1 (Apr 17, 2014)

Stuey01 said:



			Oi! I resemble that remark!
		
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We have all been guilty of it at some point.


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## ma_bass (Apr 17, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I use this as a basis of something more productive http://www.mygripzone.com/

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This looks really interesting, would you recommend? Anyone else have any experience with this?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 17, 2014)

Whenever I have used the range 

Use a couple of clubs and then just hit the blinking ball 

Use a range sessions just to keep the swing warm 

100 balls in no time at all :thup:


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 18, 2014)

It depends. If I'm at a range then its usually looking to practice swing changes and so if I'm not using the stuff from http://www.mygripzone.com/ then I'll just hit balls and focus on the move or fell and not be too concerned with the result, certainly not initially. If I am at my club hitting off grass then I try and be more target orientated and I try and hit shots I'll need on the course and also from various lies including rough


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## rossymcg (Apr 21, 2014)

I spend lots of time on the range, I don't hit lots if balls though,
I work through drills and movements in between shots, I work between long clubs medium irons and a wedge,
I also work on my pre shot routine when taking a shot,
I must look strange on the range thinking about it,


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## el marko (Apr 21, 2014)

srixon 1 said:



			I love seeing people turn up at the range, pull out driver straight away and proceed to hit balls like a machine gun. I've actually seen people lining up their next ball before the previous one has landed or stopped rolling. What is the point?
		
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I also love seeing people spend 2 hours hitting 60 balls because they do a whole pre shot routine before every ball. That i don't see the point in


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## c1973 (Apr 21, 2014)

Usually just use the range to keep the swing warm. If I'm practising at all its usually at the chipping area or greens.


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## rossymcg (Apr 21, 2014)

el marko said:



			I also love seeing people spend 2 hours hitting 60 balls because they do a whole pre shot routine before every ball. That i don't see the point in
		
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If you don't practice your pre shot routine, how does it become a natural part of your game?


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## the_coach (Apr 21, 2014)

Practice that's going to help someone get better, really has to be structured & have a focus. 

Important to remember golf is a target game, the brain works best to swing to send ball to target when that target has been precisely identified, from the start line to the end point.

Few different kinds of practice, block practice with drills to ingrain a new technical part of a swing change.
Then finding the right associated 'feelings' that help produce & repeat the changes needed.

Practice of the fundamentals of grip, aim, alignment, posture etc. & a small pre shot routine to make it automatic when on the course which helps focus the mind on the shot to come in a positive way when on the course. Most folks ignore both these completely which is why they make the same mistakes when playing.

Practice play, play the Tee shots to the visualized fairways to target which ever side of the fairway you know gives you the best angle in with the clubs you'd use with a/your course in mind, with second/third shots into the part of the greens on these holes, make it as 'real' as possible if you mess one up it still counts as a 'shot'. Count them up will give you an approximate idea of how you're doing tee to green.

Target practice, full wedge shot into to say 50 yards (in 10 yards steps in) 6 balls each, count up how many you get in a 20 foot circle around each target, write it down. Next time you have something more 'concrete' to beat. Get good, narrow the 'imagined circle' down.

Target chipping around the green, low & high shots from different lies, (good, tight, rough) & distances, 3 balls each with LW, SW, GW, PW, 8i etc, count up the score into a 6 foot circle. 

Long range lag putting practice 30 feet. Distances in to 10 foot. Often best doing these all to a tee in the ground rather than hole. 

Clock face putting with 6 balls in a 6 foot circle around the ball, if you miss you have to set them up & start again, see how many complete holed circuits you can make, keep score, you have something to aim at next time.

Putting fundamental practice, use a couple tees placed so your putter just gets through on a straight 8 foot putt, place ball directly in front of the two tees, you have to make a controlled swing through the tees to contact the ball, great for building a repetitive accurate swing path.

Warming up, therefore not practice, directly before a tee time, needs to be just focussed on getting your rhythm & balance, some stretches, few swings with two clubs to loosen up: Then 6, 3/4 wedge shots: 6, 75% effort 8i's: 6, 75% 6i's: couple 75% hybrids or 5 metals/3 metals. 

If you can use a driver pretty well normally then just a couple real easy drivers. 

I'd usually finish up having one rehearsal shot with the club I'm about to use on the 1st tee, picturing the shot, shape where I'd want it to finish, make it as 'real' as I can.

Then a couple long range putts to a target not a hole, couple 15 foot to target not a hole, couple of straight 4 foot putts to a hole making sure I just 'listen' to them going in not look up.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 21, 2014)

rossymcg said:



			If you don't practice your pre shot routine, how does it become a natural part of your game?
		
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How about practise without one then it's becomes natural it not have a PSR


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## rossymcg (Apr 21, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How about practise without one then it's becomes natural it not have a PSR 

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Very clever, have you ever considered coaching? You seem full of bright ideas,


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## Oddsocks (Apr 21, 2014)

If I assumed a range session was 100 balls:

10-15 with an 8i as a warm up hitting 3/4 shots 
10-15 hitting easy 6i
10-15 hitting easy hybrids
5 3w
5 drivers

Then the rest playing the first few holes virtually of my course, using markers on the range accordingly.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 21, 2014)

rossymcg said:



			Very clever, have you ever considered coaching? You seem full of bright ideas,
		
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Well a PSR isn't needed 

Seems quite logically - practise without one and it will ingrain itself.

When I have seen pros on a range you don't see them practising a PSR every time they hit a ball


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## G_Mulligan (Apr 21, 2014)

el marko said:



			I also love seeing people spend 2 hours hitting 60 balls because they do a whole pre shot routine before every ball. That i don't see the point in
		
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To quote Padraig Harrinton "Practice like you play and play like you practice"

better to hit each shot as an individual with a purpose, a target, going through your routine, get relaxed and focused, and take notice of the feedback both in how the swing felt and where the ball went.

That is why the imaginary round is so useful and something I need to start doing again as I have been falling into the habit of hit one tee one while working on a few swing changes.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 21, 2014)

Disagree. A decent pre-shot routine, even for the average golfer can prove very useful. I have one, and to be honest I use it a lot at the range. Going through it, stops me just scraping another ball and bashing it without any thought. Works for me but there again it all depends on what is best for each individual


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 21, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Disagree. A decent pre-shot routine, even for the average golfer can prove very useful. I have one, and to be honest I use it a lot at the range. Going through it, stops me just scraping another ball and bashing it without any thought. Works for me but there again it all depends on what is best for each individual
		
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Works for you ? How is it working for you ? Handicap come tumbling down ? Results improved ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 21, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Works for you ? How is it working for you ? Handicap come tumbling down ? Results improved ?
		
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Why is it whatever I post you have to disagree with. I am happy ploughing my own furrow and have steadfast belief in what I'm doing and that results will come. At least do me the courtesy of letting me do it my way.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 21, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Why is it whatever I post you have to disagree with. I am happy ploughing my own furrow and have steadfast belief in what I'm doing and that results will come. At least do me the courtesy of letting me do it my way.
		
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Did you not disagree with my post and then to highlight why you disagreed you posted your reasons why ? Hence why I countered your reasons. 

If a PSR is useful for you and works for you then surely its not hard to highlight the results of it working and being useful for you


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 21, 2014)

I don't need to justify my performance to you. Let me just get on with it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 21, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I don't need to justify my performance to you. Let me just get on with it.
		
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No one is asking you to justify anything about your performances - you disagreed with my point and said a PSR and practicing a PSR is working for you so I just asked for the practical results of the "working for you"

I'm guessing the defensive response means that practical it's actually not "working for you"


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## chrisd (Apr 21, 2014)

I just bash balls at the range. I have a PSR when I play but don't do it at the range. Pretty much all I concentrate on is the strike, I figure if the strike is good then the game is too. I am able to differentiate between being at the range and playing in a comp.


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## the_coach (Apr 21, 2014)

It's interesting that there isn't one Tour pro that doesn't have a pre shot routine. Their pre shot routine is down so much through repetition & practice that if your run a clock on them shot to shot from tournament to tournament it hardly varies in the time taken before each shot. The one thing Pro's are most aware of above all else are the fundamentals of set up before they do any work on mechanics & feel, most amateurs don't pay enough attention to the basic fundamentals.

A few notable Pro's have a long & tortuous one but they are the exception really, the majority have a PRS that's somewhere between 15 & 20 seconds once they step up from behind the ball after they've got their line to target.

Every very low Cat 1 player I've ever played with in competitions or just a free game, has one, as do I. 
The familiarity of your routine helps calm the mind & block distractions out so you can just focus on the positive business of visualizing, aiming & setting up to be able to execute the upcoming shot for the best possible outcome.

If on the practice ground you doing 'playing practice round' it would involve your PSR to give it focus.
If you doing block technical practice, to work on a change, ingrain a 'feel' then you'd still be using part of the PSR, waggle or movement you make directly before the swing.
Just dragging & bashing a ball after ball with no focus is pointless & won't help anyone improve their game.


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## 3565 (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well a PSR isn't needed 

Seems quite logically - practise without one and it will ingrain itself.

When I have seen pros on a range you don't see them practising a PSR every time they hit a ball
		
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thats where your sooo wrong, you've been shouting about how Westwood is coming back into form lately and hoping he gets back to winning ways which he has done. I was getting lessons at Worksop a few years ago and one cold March Monday I pulled into the practise rounds car park my teacher came over and greeted me. Their was a player with a nice white new Ping bag and was about 75yds away with his back to me, and whilst talking to my teacher I saw this player go through his PSR for a 100yd shot and hit the ball.......... It was instantly recognisable PSR cos I'd seen it on TV sooo many times. Every shot he hit he went through his routine his mannerisms. 

Why don't you write to the R&A and get PSRs banned altogether cos I don't think you'll be happy until they are banned as they get in your way of your enjoyment!


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## 3565 (Apr 22, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Why is it whatever I post you have to disagree with. I am happy ploughing my own furrow and have steadfast belief in what I'm doing and that results will come. At least do me the courtesy of letting me do it my way.
		
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He's just argumentative and wants players to play golf his way.


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## 3565 (Apr 22, 2014)

the_coach said:



			It's interesting that there isn't one Tour pro that doesn't have a pre shot routine. Their pre shot routine is down so much through repetition & practice that if your run a clock on them shot to shot from tournament to tournament it hardly varies in the time taken before each shot. The one thing Pro's are most aware of above all else are the fundamentals of set up before they do any work on mechanics & feel, most amateurs don't pay enough attention to the basic fundamentals.

A few notable Pro's have a long & tortuous one but they are the exception really, the majority have a PRS that's somewhere between 15 & 20 seconds once they step up from behind the ball after they've got their line to target.

Every very low Cat 1 player I've ever played with in competitions or just a free game, has one, as do I. 
The familiarity of your routine helps calm the mind & block distractions out so you can just focus on the positive business of visualizing, aiming & setting up to be able to execute the upcoming shot for the best possible outcome.

If on the practice ground you doing 'playing practice round' it would involve your PSR to give it focus.
If you doing block technical practice, to work on a change, ingrain a 'feel' then you'd still be using part of the PSR, waggle or movement you make directly before the swing.
*Just dragging & bashing a ball after ball with no focus is pointless & won't help anyone improve their game*.
		
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Not according to Liverpoolphil, no PSRs means less time, less time means quicker rounds which increases his enjoyment, and sod anyone else.


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## 3565 (Apr 22, 2014)

rossymcg said:



			Very clever, have you ever considered coaching? You seem full of bright ideas,
		
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:rofl:


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## Foxholer (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If a PSR is useful for you and works for you then surely its not hard to highlight the results of it working and being useful for you
		
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Actually, unless you either change to one or from one, then it's entirely subjective. And even if changing to/from one there's too many other variables.

I actually know someone who started a PhD on this very subject, but, much to his frustration, had to abandon it because it could not be made 'scientific'!



Liverpoolphil said:



			Did you not disagree...
		
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Er, Yes! Or No! :rofl:


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## chrisd (Apr 22, 2014)

the_coach said:



			Just dragging & bashing a ball after ball with no focus is pointless & won't help anyone improve their game.
		
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It may not be always what you think. I appear to be doing just that at the range, but I tend to use the range to concentrate pretty much only on trying to perfect my contact with the ball. I do have a target in mind but with range balls it's pretty impossible to work out real distances hit, so I give the appearance as JUST BASHING BALLS. Equally, I am the range to do things that I want so I'd be very happy to stand next to HJS doing his full PSR on every ball and I trust that I won't worry what he does and he shouldn't worry what I (appear) to be doing. Strangely though, as many 100's of balls that I bash at the range, even at my age, I still remember my pre shot routine when I play and funny, but in a reverse sort of psychology it differentiates between when I'm JUST BASHING BALLS and when the shots are meaningful


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

the_coach said:



			It's interesting that there isn't one Tour pro that doesn't have a pre shot routine. Their pre shot routine is down so much through repetition & practice that if your run a clock on them shot to shot from tournament to tournament it hardly varies in the time taken before each shot. The one thing Pro's are most aware of above all else are the fundamentals of set up before they do any work on mechanics & feel, most amateurs don't pay enough attention to the basic fundamentals.

A few notable Pro's have a long & tortuous one but they are the exception really, the majority have a PRS that's somewhere between 15 & 20 seconds once they step up from behind the ball after they've got their line to target.

Every very low Cat 1 player I've ever played with in competitions or just a free game, has one, as do I. 
The familiarity of your routine helps calm the mind & block distractions out so you can just focus on the positive business of visualizing, aiming & setting up to be able to execute the upcoming shot for the best possible outcome.

If on the practice ground you doing 'playing practice round' it would involve your PSR to give it focus.
If you doing block technical practice, to work on a change, ingrain a 'feel' then you'd still be using part of the PSR, waggle or movement you make directly before the swing.
*Just dragging & bashing a ball after ball with no focus is pointless & won't help anyone improve their game*.
		
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Surely it depends on what you are at the range for 

Some people just play better without thinking of anything 
Stepping up and just hitting the ball - then the next then the next etc etc - no need for any focus stuff or routines. Just walking , chatting and then hitting the ball. If do the range it's purely just to hit golf balls to keep the swing warm until the next time they play.


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## guest100718 (Apr 22, 2014)

Bashing balls at the range has to make some improvemnt even if its grooving in a crazy looking swing.. But there are plenty of studies out there that suggest having a structure to the session will be of greater benefit.


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## rossymcg (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well a PSR isn't needed 

Seems quite logically - practise without one and it will ingrain itself.

When I have seen pros on a range you don't see them practising a PSR every time they hit a ball
		
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when exactly have you seen a pro practicing or even practiced with a pro? Please don't say at wentworth prior to a round because that's warming up,
I can tell you 100% from experience not from logic, that every pro and elite amature practice a preshot routine and are taught the importance of such via their swing coach and sports psychologist, 
Conditioning your mind and attitude to switch off prior to a shot is the single most important thing during a round of golf.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

rossymcg said:



			when exactly have you seen a pro practicing or even practiced with a pro? Please don't say at wentworth prior to a round because that's warming up,
I can tell you 100% from experience not from logic, that every pro and elite amature practice a preshot routine and are taught the importance of such via their swing coach and sports psychologist, 
Conditioning your mind and attitude to switch off prior to a shot is the single most important thing during a round of golf.
		
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Would say hitting the ball properly is slightly more important 

And practised and played with a good number of pros over the years 

Some young lads and some old established pros - all have the same attitude , don't fill your mind with so much clutter about conditioning mind or attitude blah etc. Go out , relax , enjoy it and hit the ball - simple.

So would say your "every" pro is prob a little bit false unless you are suggesting "every" pro has a sports psychologist

I wonder what the players did back in the old days when there was no such thing as sports psychologists - how on earth did they ever get round the golf course


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## rossymcg (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would say hitting the ball properly is slightly more important 

And practised and played with a good number of pros over the years 

Some young lads and some old established pros - all have the same attitude , don't fill your mind with so much clutter about conditioning mind or attitude blah etc. Go out , relax , enjoy it and hit the ball - simple.

So would say your "every" pro is prob a little bit false unless you are suggesting "every" pro has a sports psychologist

I wonder what the players did back in the old days when there was no such thing as sports psychologists - how on earth did they ever get round the golf course
		
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I'm not being a prat here or trying to be clever, but what tour are the pros you've played with on? Or you talking PGA club pros? There's a massive difference from playing the fortnightly pro am or the alliance through the winter and being a tour pro or an elite amature, in fact 90% of club pros would struggle to be a cat 1 player, if you think I'm fabricating look on the results page of your counties PGA website, so if you're quoting any of these pros, it's not really relivant.
Back in the day, if you listen to what they have to say about their mental preparation , you'll find they taught themselves,
I


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Some young lads and some old established pros - all have the same attitude , don't fill your mind with so much clutter about conditioning mind or attitude blah etc. Go out , relax , enjoy it and hit the ball - simple.
		
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But they all did the same thing before they hit each shot. That is their own pre-shot routine whether they admit to having one or not. All top players address the ball the same way every time (usually taking almost exactly the same amount fo time every shot) and that has become routine. There again you'll no doubt beg to differ


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## Foxholer (Apr 22, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But they all did the same thing before they hit each shot. That is their own pre-shot routine whether they admit to having one or not. All top players address the ball the same way every time (usually taking almost exactly the same amount fo time every shot) and that has become routine. There again you'll no doubt beg to differ
		
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And I'd suggest even LPP has one - albeit quite a short one!

I've been around golf courses with a few rather good Pros and they all have a PSR they stick to. And they do the same on the practice range. I doubt they actually 'practice' the PSR though. Worth mentioning that I differentiate between the 'evaluating the shot' stage and the PSR. It tends to be the former that is the lengthy part! On the practice range there is no (need for the) 'evaluate the shot' phase!


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## ScratchSRL (Apr 22, 2014)

This thread (imo) has been destroyed! thanks for the earlier posters for the advice, going to the range tonight and working hard on a good pre shot routine, I am really trying to go back to basics with my golf, and learn from the ground up again, it is all about getting the confidence back and getting the basics right for me, so am approaching this from a very basic perspective, 

Cheers guys!


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## pokerjoke (Apr 22, 2014)

If someone posts on a thread giving advice,or disagreeing with something someone says.
Why do they get all defensive and start arguing.
Surely if something is working for you,you will see results.
Imo if its not working then your results wont change.
I saw on another post that someones short game has improved considerably.
His handicap has not improved over the last couple of months.
I tend to agree with Phil[not all the time]but if you have some advice,prove
that its actually working.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 22, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			prove
that its actually working.
		
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Sometimes results don't tell the whole story. For a while now I've been playing some good golf and either having one of those rounds where I can't make a score (putts lipping) or I throw a bad hole in and take myself out of the buffer and a 0.1 increase. That would indicate I'm playing badly if you go by handicap performance. However in my own case, I am actually very happy with how I'm hitting it early on this season after tweaking a few things over the winter. 

Just because the handicap isn't tumbling doesn't mean things aren't working. Either way, as I've said before, as far as my own game goes, I'm happy to plough my own furrow, do things my way and still have a firm belief that I am capable of single figures. If I have to go up to go down then so be it. I certainly don't subscribe to the fact that a decreasing handicap is the only indicator of a progressive game. My short tale woes of the last three years are well known but I have found something I am beginning to trust. That in itself is progression. Some people on here are to quick to knock others and as long as I am happy playing the game (hard to believe but I'm really enjoying my golf) and I can see progression in the quality of my golf then to be frank I don't care or have to justify my performances. I would have thought winning the KoK qualifier at Camberely is more than adequate proof that what I'm doing is working even if the handicap says otherwise. If I start making bad scores and don't think the swing is doing what I want it to then I'll look at ways to improve again


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## ScratchSRL (Apr 22, 2014)

Literally just typing the same as homer, I am looking for ideas that people have tried, I don't really care if they have lowered the posters handicap by 5 shots, as I am going to practice on a range, not in a medal or stable ford, so ideas don't have to mean success, as success to one through practice, could be failure to another.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			If someone posts on a thread giving advice,or disagreeing with something someone says.
Why do they get all defensive and start arguing.
Surely if something is working for you,you will see results.
Imo if its not working then your results wont change.
I saw on another post that someones short game has improved considerably.
His handicap has not improved over the last couple of months.
I tend to agree with Phil[not all the time]but if you have some advice,prove
that its actually working.
		
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To suggest something is working would suggest that results on the course would be improved on a consistent basis and with that the handicap comes down 

I bought a new driver last week and to show the improvement in the games used with it 

Two gross 71 ( rolls ups )

38 points - qualified 

Gross 73 qualifier 

And cut .4 back into cat 1 

And all as a result of better driving and feeling confident

If someone gives me advice then I would certainly like to see some proof of that advice working over a consistent period 

What is better proof of something working than the practical evidence.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What is better proof of something working than the practical evidence.
		
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Won the KoK qualifier. QED


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Won the KoK qualifier. QED
		
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And the qualifying rounds or does one swallow sum it all up ? 

Does someone playing to par one round and then playing 10 over the other 10 rounds equal to him being a scratch player ? 

If you can highlight consistent improvement then possibly any advice you give could well be worth taking a closer look at.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And the qualifying rounds or does one swallow sum it all up ? 

Does someone playing to par one round and then playing 10 over the other 10 rounds equal to him being a scratch player ? 

If you can highlight consistent improvement then possibly any advice you give could well be worth taking a closer look at.
		
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Can't be bothered to discuss with someone that isn't prepared to accept anyone elses point of view (not just this thread). I've put in my replies (ignored to serve your own purpose) that I've had a couple of rounds that would have been better bar some lip outs or the one bad hole. On top of that I've won. Not bad as I've only played 4-5 comps so far (no doubt not good enough for you of course). As I say I'm happy with my progression and as far as I'm concerned that's all that matters. You only seem happy splitting hairs or looking for arguments whatever the discussion. I'm out


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## 3565 (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			To suggest something is working would suggest that results on the course would be improved on a consistent basis and with that the handicap comes down 

I bought a new driver last week and to show the improvement in the games used with it 

Two gross 71 ( rolls ups )

38 points - qualified 

Gross 73 qualifier 

And cut .4 back into cat 1 

*And all as a result of better driving and feeling confident*

If someone gives me advice then I would certainly like to see some proof of that advice working over a consistent period 

What is better proof of something working than the practical evidence.
		
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So you bought a new driver and had 4 good rounds got to Cat 1. You say consistent basis and with that the hc comes down? Well we all await with baited breathe to your progress and the fact that your new driver has got you to Cat 1. Consistent results mean more then a little purple patch of 4 rounds so I expect that the inner confidence you have with your driver (how can you prove or measure inner confidence) that your hc over the next 10-15 rounds comes down!! Alright getting to Cat 1, but it's a different thing staying in it! Welcome to more hard work lad! 

Homer and others have an inner confidence on a repetitive action that they find that works for them just like your new driver does for you. Although you can't see a physical difference like you hitting more fairways doesn't mean it don't work! Bet you have a routine as soon as you get up for work in what you do to start the day! So why can't golfers have a routine or is it the fact that PSRs are the Bain of your life as it enhances your so called quest for speeding up slow play?


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## 3565 (Apr 22, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



*Can't be bothered to discuss with someone that isn't prepared to accept anyone elses point of view* (not just this thread). I've put in my replies (ignored to serve your own purpose) that I've had a couple of rounds that would have been better bar some lip outs or the one bad hole. On top of that I've won. Not bad as I've only played 4-5 comps so far (no doubt not good enough for you of course). As I say I'm happy with my progression and as far as I'm concerned that's all that matters. You only seem happy splitting hairs or looking for arguments whatever the discussion. I'm out
		
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And that's what it boils down to with him!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

3565 said:



			So you bought a new driver and had 4 good rounds got to Cat 1. You say consistent basis and with that the hc comes down? Well we all await with baited breathe to your progress and the fact that your new driver has got you to Cat 1. Consistent results mean more then a little purple patch of 4 rounds so I expect that the inner confidence you have with your driver (how can you prove or measure inner confidence) that your hc over the next 10-15 rounds comes down!! Alright getting to Cat 1, but it's a different thing staying in it! Welcome to more hard work lad! 

Homer and others have an inner confidence on a repetitive action that they find that works for them just like your new driver does for you. Although you can't see a physical difference like you hitting more fairways doesn't mean it don't work! Bet you have a routine as soon as you get up for work in what you do to start the day! So why can't golfers have a routine or is it the fact that PSRs are the Bain of your life as it enhances your so called quest for speeding up slow play?
		
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More hard work ? Been in and around cat 1 for the last 6-8 months by doing nothing different. 

That suggests I was working hard in the first place - nothing will change - I will rock up hit the ball chat to my FC , have some banter and then go home happy that I had another round of golf. 

And if it's just a purple patch then my point about homers one round in amongst a bunch of .1 back is more valid 

Over the last 6 months I have been regularly under my handicap in roll ups with at least 6 rounds under par ( gross ) and 2 .1's back in 4 qualifiers ( until this weekend ) 

I seem to play pretty decent consistent golf and have the results without the need of practise regime and just enjoying the hobby we all play. 

So when someone says they disagree with my methods I will ask them why and to prove theirs works - that proof didn't materlise instead a defensive wall was erected whilst they talked about feeling better etc etc - no better feeling than results 

I have never suggested golfers "can't" have a routine - I have used my own example that it is not "necessary" to play well. Same with PSR - an elongated PSR is not necessary to playing good golf. 

Slow golfers are the bane of my life and yes I will continue to find ways to speed up play at my club because it's an area my club wants to improve ( not just me )


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

3565 said:



			And that's what it boils down to with him!
		
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And are you accepting my view on slow play ? Don't seem to be


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## User20205 (Apr 22, 2014)

In the past I've had a little pop at psr's etc as I've thought they contribute to slow play. I still believe most club golfers who use psr's use them as an excuse to be incredibly slow.....however i do think my attitude is changng slightly 

When I'm playing well it's almost automatic, when I'm playing badly I need to try and replicate the 'automatic' feeling. The best way I can think of doing this is a short psr, probably to rationalise what I'm already doing.

I will try this on the range first. 

Maybe I can then win a big glorified society event :thup:


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## Foxholer (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			More hard work ? Been in and around cat 1 for the last 6-8 months by doing nothing different. 

That suggests I was working hard in the first place - nothing will change - I will rock up hit the ball chat to my FC , have some banter and then go home happy that I had another round of golf. 

And if it's just a purple patch then my point about homers one round in amongst a bunch of .1 back is more valid 

Over the last 6 months I have been regularly under my handicap in roll ups with at least 6 rounds under par ( gross ) and 2 .1's back in 4 qualifiers ( until this weekend ) 

I seem to play pretty decent consistent golf and have the results without the need of practise regime and just enjoying the hobby we all play. 

So when someone says they disagree with my methods I will ask them why and to prove theirs works - that proof didn't materlise instead a defensive wall was erected whilst they talked about feeling better etc etc - no better feeling than results 

I have never suggested golfers "can't" have a routine - I have used my own example that it is not "necessary" to play well. Same with PSR - an elongated PSR is not necessary to playing good golf. 

Slow golfers are the bane of my life and yes I will continue to find ways to speed up play at my club because it's an area my club wants to improve ( not just me )
		
Click to expand...

Why aren't you off Scratch then Phil?

You could be! With a bit of practice!

Setting your goals too low? Wasting talent? Lazy? Too busy elsewhere?


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			More  been regularly under my handicap in roll ups
		
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Well if you're including roll ups, I won the last Saturday one we play in. So that's twice I've won this season then


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Well if you're including roll ups, I won the last Saturday one we play in. So that's twice I've won this season then
		
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Didn't think you were interested in discussing any further ? 

Was it another .1 this weekend ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Why aren't you off Scratch then Phil?

You could be! With a bit of practice!

Setting your goals too low? Wasting talent? Lazy? Too busy elsewhere?
		
Click to expand...

Or just enjoying myself the way I am :thup:

Playing golf the way I believe it should be - as an enjoyable hobby :thup:


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 22, 2014)

And yet again when someone comes back with an answer you don't like you ignore. One buffer and one 0.1 by a shot so happy thank you. You really do seem incapable of accepting other peoples point of view. I really am out now and welcome to the blocked list


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## 3565 (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And are you accepting my view on slow play ? Don't seem to be
		
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its  obvious to me you only read what you want to read. I have stated that slow play needs to be addressed but that it has to start at the very top, the Professionals or did you absently forget that post or just didn't read it cos you can't be bothered. So in effect I have agreed to your issues but the R&A are bringing out rules about slow play to get clubs to DISCIPLINE (really!) players by not allowing them to play, yet they do sweet FA on the tours. Still 5hr rounds, majority are all slow with a few exceptions. So the fact that there are less people playing golf today is not just down to slow play, with an attitude like what that Otto fella said, guess what more people will walk away from golf. 

I agree with Homer it seems like your view is the only one, which coincides with The R&As view. 

To your Cat 1/2 status, keep doing what your doing by doing nothing different (your quote) and you'll remain in and out of Cat 1! 

What's the Definition of insanity Mr Jones? 

Good luck.......... With that.


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## 3565 (Apr 22, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And yet again when someone comes back with an answer you don't like you ignore. One buffer and one 0.1 by a shot so happy thank you.* You really do seem incapable of accepting other peoples point of view*. I really am out now and welcome to the blocked list
		
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:clap:


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## guest100718 (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or just enjoying myself the way I am :thup:

Playing golf the way I believe it should be - as an enjoyable hobby :thup:
		
Click to expand...

I would reckon that if we followed you about you probbly do have a PSR, whether intentional or not. I dont have one that I practice, but when I think about it I do have one. Nothing amazing or all that long but I do the same thing before each shot.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

3565 said:



			its  obvious to me you only read what you want to read. I have stated that slow play needs to be addressed but that it has to start at the very top, the Professionals or did you absently forget that post or just didn't read it cos you can't be bothered. So in effect I have agreed to your issues but the R&A are bringing out rules about slow play to get clubs to DISCIPLINE (really!) players by not allowing them to play, yet they do sweet FA on the tours. Still 5hr rounds, majority are all slow with a few exceptions. So the fact that there are less people playing golf today is not just down to slow play, with an attitude like what that Otto fella said, guess what more people will walk away from golf. 

I agree with Homer it seems like your view is the only one, which coincides with The R&As view. 

*To your Cat 1/2 status, keep doing what your doing by doing nothing different (your quote) and you'll remain in and out of Cat 1! *

What's the Definition of insanity Mr Jones? 

Good luck.......... With that.
		
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And the problem with that is ? 

By doing what I have been doing I have managed to go from a 24 handicapper to 5 in 4 years going from 10 down to 5 last year - so tell me now why I should change ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			I would reckon that if we followed you about you probbly do have a PSR, whether intentional or not. I have one that I practice, but when I think about it I do have one. Nothing amazing or all that long but I do the same thing before each shot.
		
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Well it depends - I check distance ( unless under 100 yards ) tie the ball up (if it's a tee shot )  , sometimes have a practise swing , sometimes don't , some times have 2 practise swings then hit the ball. There is no set routine :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And yet again when someone comes back with an answer you don't like you ignore. One buffer and one 0.1 by a shot so happy thank you. You really do seem incapable of accepting other peoples point of view. I really am out now and welcome to the blocked list
		
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Happy to accept people's opinion when they have some basis behind them 

When someone disagrees with what I say then I would expect them to show me why their opinion is more valid - when it comes to golf and you say you disagree with me and your ideas so far seem to be taking you handicap in an upward motion as opposed to showing me that they are actually working then I will not agree with you. 

So I just asked you to show me the proof of why you disagree with me - you got all defensive - that's not my issue I'm afraid.


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## Foxholer (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or just enjoying myself the way I am :thup:

Playing golf the way *I believe *it should be - as an enjoyable hobby :thup:
		
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That's fine - perhaps. 

Then don't knock others who are trying to improve!

And going round under Par in roll-ups while playing off 5/6 has 'sand-bagger' accusation potential. Why can't/don't you perform with a card in your hand?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			That's fine - perhaps. 

Then don't knock others who are trying to improve!

And going round under Par in roll-ups while playing off 5/6 has 'sand-bagger' accusation potential. Why can't/don't you perform with a card in your hand?
		
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Haven't knocked anyone who is trying to improve - what I have taken exception to is when someone disagrees with what I was saying but hasn't the practical results to back it up.


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## guest100718 (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well it depends - I check distance ( unless under 100 yards ) tie the ball up (if it's a tee shot )  , sometimes have a practise swing , sometimes don't , some times have 2 practise swings then hit the ball. There is no set routine :thup:
		
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and you appear to have edited my OP....how odd.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			and you appear to have edited my OP....how odd.
		
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Eh ? What have I edited ?


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## guest100718 (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Eh ? What have I edited ?
		
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compare the quote in 73 to what I actually said in 71.  like i said, Odd


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## tsped83 (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Haven't knocked anyone who is trying to improve - what I have taken exception to is when someone disagrees with what I was saying but hasn't the practical results to back it up.
		
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Does someone NEED to demonstrate/provide results? What is this, school? Surely you can improve and area of your game significantly but not see a reduction in handicap due to other parts of the game falling by the way side? My driving is bang on at the minute, frozen rope straight, put can I chip and putt at the moment? Can I balls. In a week it'll be vice versa. I have lost sight of the point I'm making here, but I think we're allowed differences of opinion without the requirement for these opinions to be validated.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			compare the quote in 73 to what I actually said in 71.  like i said, Odd
		
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Can't see it mate ?


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## guest100718 (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can't see it mate ? 

Click to expand...

you removed the word dont, which completely changes what I was saying.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

tsped83 said:



			Does someone NEED to demonstrate/provide results? What is this, school? Surely you can improve and area of your game significantly but not see a reduction in handicap due to other parts of the game falling by the way side? My driving is bang on at the minute, frozen rope straight, put can I chip and putt at the moment? Can I balls. In a week it'll be vice versa. I have lost sight of the point I'm making here, but I think we're allowed differences of opinion without the requirement for these opinions to be validated.
		
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The point I was making that when offering advice then surely that advice will need to backed with a bit of evidence 

If I said to you chip with a 54 degree wedge from around the green - and my backing is it has helped my score by improving my up and downs from around the green and has helped my handicap reduce by ... 

Hence why when someone said - I disagree and a Etc works for me and I ask can you show me how it works for you with your improved scoring and handicap reduction ? Is that not valid to see the results of such a statement ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			you removed the word dont, which completely changes what I was saying.
		
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I haven't removed anything ???


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## Foxholer (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Haven't knocked anyone who is trying to improve - what I have taken exception to is when someone disagrees with what I was saying but hasn't the practical results to back it up.
		
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As I've posted before. Results mean absolutely nothing - except that you have had those results. Totally unscientific.

The statement 'You could be a Plus 5 if you had practiced' is just as valid as you saying 'look where I am without practice'! As is anything anyone who hasn't had as good results as you! Same applies to PSR.

I happen to know that when I practice, my scores improve. When I don't, they decline. That's all I need to believe there's a correlation - even if it's still rather unscientific.

As for the routine that the OP once hoped might be discussed. I tend to have specific goals in mind if going to the Range - even if it's just to keep the swing warm. So any routine is based around what they are. I'm actually not too keen on using the range a lot. Long game isn't the area that needs the work. If planning it properly, I'd only use the Range 1 in 3 or 4 practice sessions and I'd have a plan of what to practice, so hopefully wouldn't simply bash balls.


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## 3565 (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And the problem with that is ? 

By doing what I have been doing I have managed to go from a 24 handicapper to 5 in 4 years going from 10 down to 5 last year - so tell me now why I should change ?
		
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:rofl:Cos from 20 odd yrs being a cat 1 player, I know what it takes to stay as a Cat 1 player. You can take this statement how you want to, but you don't! 

Maybe you don't have the mental capabilities to change, and it's obvious your happy to be where you are as at the end of the day it's a hobby for your enjoyment. But cos players are wanting to improve, striving to get better and get as low as they can be, doesn't mean they don't enjoy it any less then you!  

Whilst I commend you on your efforts from 24-5 in 4yrs, it shows you have a natural ability to play, but I admire the likes of Homer and his determination to get to single figures by at least trying, Aimpoint, new short game technique, PSR, psychology, etc etc. 

in reality terms, you are in a similar place to Homer, close to being, but not quite there. He's prepared to change things, you are 'well it's got me where I am player' 

Faldo had a good career but he realised he needed changes to win Majors. 

Like I said good luck with bouncing around cat1/2


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			As I've posted before. Results mean absolutely nothing - except that you have had those results. Totally unscientific.

The statement 'You could be a Plus 5 if you had practiced' is just as valid as you saying 'look where I am without practice'! As is anything anyone who hasn't had as good results as you! Same applies to PSR.

*I happen to know that when I practice, my scores improve. When I don't, they decline. That's all I need to believe there's a correlation - even if it's still rather unscientific.*

As for the routine that the OP once hoped might be discussed. I tend to have specific goals in mind if going to the Range - even if it's just to keep the swing warm. So any routine is based around what they are. I'm actually not too keen on using the range a lot. Long game isn't the area that needs the work. If planning it properly, I'd only use the Range 1 in 3 or 4 practice sessions and I'd have a plan of what to practice, so hopefully wouldn't simply bash balls.
		
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And that's the exact sort of thing I expected when someone said "it works for me" 

You have shown that practise works for you because it has had a positive effect on your game - improvement in scoring :thup:

That is all I initially asked - how does it work for you and what is the practical positive effect in the scoring.


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## CMAC (Apr 22, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			compare the quote in 73 to what I actually said in 71.  like i said, Odd
		
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No-one, apart from a mod can edit someone's original post! They can change your quote in their post but not, repeat not in your original.

Think you owe Phil an apology


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

3565 said:



			:rofl:Cos from 20 odd yrs being a cat 1 player, I know what it takes to stay as a Cat 1 player. You can take this statement how you want to, but you don't! 

Maybe you don't have the mental capabilities to change, and it's obvious your happy to be where you are as at the end of the day it's a hobby for your enjoyment. But cos players are wanting to improve, striving to get better and get as low as they can be, doesn't mean they don't enjoy it any less then you!  

Whilst I commend you on your efforts from 24-5 in 4yrs, it shows you have a natural ability to play, but I admire the likes of Homer and his determination to get to single figures by at least trying, Aimpoint, new short game technique, PSR, psychology, etc etc. 

in reality terms, you are in a similar place to Homer, close to being, but not quite there. He's prepared to change things, you are 'well it's got me where I am player' 

Faldo had a good career but he realised he needed changes to win Majors. 

Like I said good luck with bouncing around cat1/2
		
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And again what is wrong with bouncing between cat 1 and 2 ? 

What am I close to ? Why do I need to change anything when I'm playing the game for enjoyment and am extremely happy.

If my handicap improves it improves - if it doesn't then oh well - if I'm cat 1 or cat 2 it won't make a blind difference 

Nothing to do with desire or any mental capabilities etc - it's all down to enjoyment 

Golf is a hobby for us club golfers - it's a social game.


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## 3565 (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And again what is wrong with bouncing between cat 1 and 2 ? 

What am I close to ? Why do I need to change anything when I'm playing the game for enjoyment and am extremely happy.

If my handicap improves it improves - if it doesn't then oh well - if I'm cat 1 or cat 2 it won't make a blind difference 

Nothing to do with desire or any mental capabilities etc - it's all down to enjoyment 

Golf is a hobby for us club golfers - it's a social game.
		
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then go play the game then. Don't be so pompous in wanting people's validation that a certain thing works for them, when they disagree with you! Why do you want to know that for? To TRY?? Why?  YOU play the game for enjoyment, what will be will be is what your saying, so it shouldn't really bother you that people are against your views! Cos what you do works for you....... Knock yourself out.


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## Whereditgo (Apr 22, 2014)

I donâ€™t really see how there can be â€œproofâ€ that one thing or another has had the claimed improvement anyone suggests. Handicap reduction wouldnâ€™t be the sole basis, who can say whether or not the handicap may have reduced the same or even further without utilising the said new practice method or whatever is suggested?

To my mind why not just take someones word for it? If someone claims â€˜Xâ€™ part of their game is improved as a consequence of â€˜Yâ€™ I am content to believe it may work for me or it may not without asking them to â€œprove itâ€.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

3565 said:



			then go play the game then. Don't be so pompous in wanting people's validation that a certain thing works for them, when they disagree with you! Why do you want to know that for? To TRY?? Why?  YOU play the game for enjoyment, what will be will be is what your saying, so it shouldn't really bother you that people are against your views! Cos what you do works for you....... Knock yourself out.
		
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I do play the game - but let's not forget it was someone disagreeing with my opinion that i asked for validation ? 

Is it no longer acceptable to ask for advice etc to backed up with a little bit of proof ?! How is that pompous ! 

When did I ever suggest I don't try things ?! 

Foxholer posted exactly the sort of thing I initially asked for - he has said that when he practises he improves his scoring - nice and simple.


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## Foxholer (Apr 22, 2014)

CMAC said:



			No-one, apart from a mod can edit someone's original post! They can change your quote in their post but not, repeat not in your original.

Think you owe Phil an apology
		
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Go back and check the posts. It's as guest100718 says! And the missing 'don't' in the quote does change the meaning somewhat!

If any apology owed, its Phil to guest100718 (and you to him too) imo!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Go back and check the posts. It's as guest100718 says! And the missing 'don't' in the quote does change the meaning somewhat!

If any apology owed, its Phil to guest100718 (and you to him too) imo!
		
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I'm very confused here as to what is going on - I haven't changed anyone's post ?! What is all this apology business about ?


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## Foxholer (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm very confused here as to what is going on - I haven't changed anyone's post ?! What is all this apology business about ?
		
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[spoon feed mode]
Somehow a "don't" that was in post 71 disappeared when you quoted it in post 73 - just like guest100718 pointed out!
[/spoon feed mode]


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## 3565 (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I do play the game - but let's not forget it was someone disagreeing with my opinion that i asked for validation ? 

Is it no longer acceptable to ask for advice etc to backed up with a little bit of proof ?! How is that pompous ! 

When did I ever suggest I don't try things ?! 

Foxholer posted exactly the sort of thing I initially asked for - *he has said that when he practises he improves his scoring - nice and simple.*

Click to expand...

*
*
Did Homer not say that his PSR or practising PSR has improved his game whether it's external or internal factors? Is that not validation? Is that not the same as Foxholers statement!!! 

I spent 5hrs with Iain from ICY Golf about wedges and he observed and said to try it this way and play it that way, are you seriously going to ask for proof from him that his technique is better to what you believe in? Is that how you go about other aspects of life, please prove and validate to me........


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			[spoon feed mode]
Somehow a "don't" that was in post 71 disappeared when you quoted it in post 73 - just like guest100718 pointed out!
[/spoon feed mode]
		
Click to expand...

Well I didn't remove anything from his post


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

3565 said:



			[/B]
Did Homer not say that his PSR or practising PSR has improved his game whether it's external or internal factors? Is that not validation? Is that not the same as Foxholers statement!!! 

I spent 5hrs with Iain from ICY Golf about wedges and he observed and said to try it this way and play it that way, are you seriously going to ask for proof from him that his technique is better to what you believe in? Is that how you go about other aspects of life, please prove and validate to me........ 

Click to expand...


And I asked how it has improved his game by asking if his scores have improved on a consistent basis - by asking that it appears I committed some crime. 

Iain I'm guessing is a "qualified proven coach" as opposed to a 12 handicapper on a forum - his proof and validation is his career :thup:


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## 3565 (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well I didn't remove anything from his post 

Click to expand...

what he put. 

I would reckon that if we followed you about you probbly do have a PSR, whether intentional or not. I *dont* have one that I practice, but when I think about it I do have one. Nothing amazing or all that long but I do the same thing before each shot.

when you replied the word don't in your post 73 has been omitted.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

3565 said:



			what he put. 

I would reckon that if we followed you about you probbly do have a PSR, whether intentional or not. I *dont* have one that I practice, but when I think about it I do have one. Nothing amazing or all that long but I do the same thing before each shot.

when you replied the word don't in your post 73 has been omitted.
		
Click to expand...

Well I haven't omitted anything as I have said numerous times now 

Possibly the don't was put in after I quoted the message ?

I read that he said don't practise anyway so not sure the big deal or the demands for apologies etc


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## Snelly (Apr 22, 2014)

rossymcg said:



			There's a massive difference from playing the fortnightly pro am or the alliance through the winter and being a tour pro or an elite amature,,
I
		
Click to expand...


Not as big as the difference between a tour pro and a 15 handicap club golfer and yet we all see the latter copying the former on every trip to any golf course.   Something that I find personally quite ridiculous although plenty on this forum disagree and think they can only improve through visualisation, focus, routines etc.   

Visualisation of the perceived shot and perfect repeated preparation don't count for much if, when you swing, you still can't hit a cow's backside with a banjo...


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## ScratchSRL (Apr 22, 2014)

jeeeeeeez! 

I have bought GRiP which looks like the nuts when it comes to practising, will give you guys all an update when I have started using it, 

Phil for you, ill even produce a report on how it has improved my scoring!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

ScratchSRL said:



			jeeeeeeez! 

I have bought GRiP which looks like the nuts when it comes to practising, will give you guys all an update when I have started using it, 

Phil for you, ill even produce a report on how it has improved my scoring!
		
Click to expand...

What is GRiP ?


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## Foxholer (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well I haven't omitted anything as I have said numerous times now
		
Click to expand...

Then you'd be wrong!

Just not knowingly/deliberately.



Liverpoolphil said:



			Possibly the don't was put in after I quoted the message ?
		
Click to expand...

Nope - that would leave an 'updated...' line.



Liverpoolphil said:



			so not sure the big deal or the demands for apologies etc
		
Click to expand...

Only 'demand' (note the quotes) was from CMAC who got things arse about face.




Snelly said:



			Not as big as the difference between a tour pro and a 15 handicap club golfer and yet we all see the latter copying the former on every trip to any golf course.   Something that I find personally quite ridiculous although plenty on this forum disagree and think they can only improve through visualisation, focus, routines etc.   

Visualisation of the perceived shot and perfect repeated preparation don't count for much if, when you swing, you still can't hit a cow's backside with a banjo...
		
Click to expand...

For those with aspirations, it's either that or admit their (our) lack of talent!

Something easily harvestable by the marketeers!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

Then there is no problem - excellent that's that sorted.


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## 3565 (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And I asked how it has improved his game by asking if his scores have improved on a consistent basis - by asking that it appears I committed some crime. 

Iain I'm guessing is a "qualified proven coach" as opposed to a 12 handicapper on a forum - his proof and validation is his career :thup:
		
Click to expand...

spent 15yrs at Cleveland working with pros on wedges, engineer by profession, spent 5yrs on F1 scene. Could you call that proven qualified coach? That's open to opinion. Did he spend 3hrs talking and watching Mickelson about short game shots?  Yes. So I'm not going to ask for validation that Mickelsons hinge n hold method is better then Peter Cowans method who he knows. I'm going to listen learn and try on his say so. 

But you question a psycologist profession in the past cos he is a high (20 odd) hc player!!!!!


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## 3565 (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well I haven't omitted anything as I have said numerous times now 

Possibly the don't was put in after I quoted the message ?


I read that he said don't practise anyway so not sure the big deal or the demands for apologies etc
		
Click to expand...


ive not asked for your apologies just pointing it out. But I'll take it at face value in what you say!


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 22, 2014)

ScratchSRL said:



			jeeeeeeez! 

I have bought GRiP which looks like the nuts when it comes to practising, will give you guys all an update when I have started using it, 

Phil for you, ill even produce a report on how it has improved my scoring!
		
Click to expand...

Way back in the midst of time this is what I put on here as something to use for practicing. Very good for giving specific targets and scores to beat and so makes the session that more realistic in terms of trying to beat previous scores and focus on the target


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## Foxholer (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Then there is no problem - excellent that's that sorted.
		
Click to expand...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

3565 said:



			spent 15yrs at Cleveland working with pros on wedges, engineer by profession, spent 5yrs on F1 scene. Could you call that proven qualified coach? That's open to opinion. Did he spend 3hrs talking and watching Mickelson about short game shots?  Yes. So I'm not going to ask for validation that Mickelsons hinge n hold method is better then Peter Cowans method who he knows. I'm going to listen learn and try on his say so. 

But you question a psycologist profession in the past cos he is a high (20 odd) hc player!!!!! 

Click to expand...

So you have just reeled off someone's proof and validation - you listened to him because of his experience and back ground and because of who he is. 

And yes I do question a psychologist who suggests something will improve your game when it doesn't appear to improve his own.


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## ScratchSRL (Apr 22, 2014)

.....some people are good at thinking things for other people, such a short sighted way of looking at things, things work for different people. So confused at how someone could be so short sighted not to try something and see if it works for them. 'I'm not going to use Vokey wedges, because I saw Jordan Speith duff a chip with them' 

Crazy


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## Foxholer (Apr 22, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Way back in the midst of time this is what I put on here as something to use for practicing. Very good for giving specific targets and scores to beat and so makes the session that more realistic in terms of trying to beat previous scores and focus on the target
		
Click to expand...

At least you'll be able to prove it if a certain someone disagrees with you! :rofl:

@ScratchSRL. Good luck with GRiP. Will be interested to see what you think, immediately and in a few months. Bit on the expensive side for me - though less than the cost of 2 lessons!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

ScratchSRL said:



			.....some people are good at thinking things for other people, such a short sighted way of looking at things, things work for different people. *So confused at how someone could be so short sighted not to try something and see if it works for them*. 'I'm not going to use Vokey wedges, because I saw Jordan Speith duff a chip with them' 

Crazy
		
Click to expand...

When was that said ?


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## 3565 (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So you have just reeled off someone's proof and validation - you listened to him because of his experience and back ground and because of who he is. 

And yes I do question a psychologist who suggests something will improve your game when it doesn't appear to improve his own.
		
Click to expand...

I've never heard of him until 2 weeks ago from what I've read on here. I saw his wedges on his web site and thought yes, I want to see what this is about. He's not a qualified coach although he has a great ability to explain and teach and has designed a product that looks good and will certainly help my game then the generic products from the OEMs. 

Would you question the likes of Harmon, Leadbetter, Foley, Cowan, who say this swing technique will improve your game even tho they don't play on tour? Were they prolific in their playing days?


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## Foxholer (Apr 22, 2014)

ScratchSRL said:



			.....some people are good at thinking things for other people, such a short sighted way of looking at things, things work for different people. So confused at how someone could be so short sighted not to try something and see if it works for them. 'I'm not going to use Vokey wedges, because I saw Jordan Speith duff a chip with them' 

Crazy
		
Click to expand...

Well, narrow minded/blinkered.

Which seems very apt!  

At least there's consistency!


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## ScratchSRL (Apr 22, 2014)

Cheers Foxholer ill keep you posted, probably post a review tonight about how i get on with it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

3565 said:



			I've never heard of him until 2 weeks ago from what I've read on here. I saw his wedges on his web site and thought yes, I want to see what this is about. He's not a qualified coach although he has a great ability to explain and teach and has designed a product that looks good and will certainly help my game then the generic products from the OEMs. 

Would you question the likes of Harmon, Leadbetter, Foley, Cowan, who say this swing technique will improve your game even tho they don't play on tour? Were they prolific in their playing days?
		
Click to expand...


Harmon , Leadbetter etc are fully qualified coaches to the top players in the world 

They aren't club players playing to mid to high handicaps - they have the proof to back up their theories.


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## ScratchSRL (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When was that said ?
		
Click to expand...

It was hypothetical, pretty much the approach you are taking towards it,  there are certain things where I would agree with your way of thinking, don't go to a dentist if he has bad teeth, don't get a tattoo from someone who has jack nicholson on his chest and it actually looks like sloth. But the thing I love about golf is the fact it doesnt, matter how good you are, your advice way of thinking could help anyone. And the gap between handicaps doesn't matter when it comes to that. Some people are good thinkers some people are do ers. 

SRL


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

ScratchSRL said:



			It was hypothetical, pretty much the approach you are taking towards it,  there are certain things where I would agree with your way of thinking, don't go to a dentist if he has bad teeth, don't get a tattoo from someone who has jack nicholson on his chest and it actually looks like sloth. But the thing I love about golf is the fact it doesnt, matter how good you are, your advice way of thinking could help anyone. And the gap between handicaps doesn't matter when it comes to that. Some people are good thinkers some people are do ers. 

SRL
		
Click to expand...

And I all asked was to show me when someone says "it works for me" how exactly it works for them to help me form a base then and if what was said then it's possibly something I would consider 

But it appears asking how it works didn't go down well with some people and it appears it's a big crime with teddies going everywhere 

I'm more than willing to try new things on a golf course - have done it plenty of times

Perfect example 

Putter Grip - seen a FC start to rattle putts in from everywhere and improve his scoring with a bigger super stroke grip. Read reviews on here about how it had improved peoples putting and improved your scoring because of less putts - so went and got one for my putter and now can see the improvement in my putting 

If you said in 6 months time this GRiP thing has helped you dramatically improve your scoring and dropped your scoring by 2 or 3 shots a round then it would be something I would look at.

If something is shown to improve people's game then it is something worth looking at


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## Rooter (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			so went and got one for my putter and now can see the improvement in my putting
		
Click to expand...

Define your improvement Phil. or is it just a psychological one? I want numbers and stats!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

Rooter said:



			Define your improvement Phil. or is it just a psychological one? I want numbers and stats!!
		
Click to expand...

More putts drop in the hole - would say my "make" percentage from 6ft has increased by a good 50-75%

First round I used it I had if I'm remembering correctly 23 putts 

Before the change I opened the face regulary ( especially on short putts )


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## G_Mulligan (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Harmon , Leadbetter etc are fully qualified coaches to the top players in the world 

They aren't club players playing to mid to high handicaps - they have the proof to back up their theories.
		
Click to expand...

During my degree I must have read a 100 books and over 1000 journal articles and ran my own studies into imagery, confidence, visualisation and flow, I have helped a 3 handicapper win his county championship. Please do not for one second ever suggest that I can't back up my advice with sound theory and practical examples.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

G_Mulligan said:



			During my degree I must have read a 100 books and over 1000 journal articles and ran my own studies into imagery, confidence, visualisation and flow, I have helped a 3 handicapper win his county championship. Please do not for one second ever suggest that I can't back up my advice with sound theory and practical examples.
		
Click to expand...

The only thing that matters there is the county champ - which county ? 

Did you mention that last time ? 

Understand someone asked if you could post someone's "improvements" as they were visiting you so that we could see the upward curve ? Can you do that ?


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## rossymcg (Apr 22, 2014)

My post regarding my range routine, which someone tried to be clever about and said practice not having a PSR,
The reason I do my practice routine the way I do because it's how my coach has told me to do it, my coach being David Ridley, England A squad coach and coach to players on every professional tour, I strongly believe Daves coaching techniques to be far superior and advanced than Liverpoolphil thoughts and views in the game if golf,


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## User20205 (Apr 22, 2014)

G_Mulligan said:



			During my degree I must have read a 100 books and over 1000 journal articles and ran my own studies into imagery, confidence, visualisation and flow, I have helped a 3 handicapper win his county championship. Please do not for one second ever suggest that I can't back up my advice with sound theory and practical examples.
		
Click to expand...

That's all Phil is asking, 'show me the improvement'.

Not I'm doing it because I've seen it on TV, or I've won a roll up.

He's a skeptic and has asked for proof. 

I've no dog in this fight, but I can see his point for validation.

However it is also ok IMO to say I do it because it makes me feel better, which I accept sounds like a contradiction.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

rossymcg said:



			My post regarding my range routine, which someone tried to be clever about and said practice not having a PSR,
The reason I do my practice routine the way I do because it's how my coach has told me to do it, my coach being David Ridley, England A squad coach and coach to players on every professional tour, I strongly believe Daves coaching techniques to be far superior and advanced than Liverpoolphil thoughts and views in the game if golf,
		
Click to expand...

See there is more proof ! And I don't blame you for following the advice of days coach - he had the experience and ability to back up what he is asking you to do ! You follow what he does because of who he is. 

If a mid handicapper on here told you to something different - you wouldn't unless they provided some proof to their reasoning.


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## pokerjoke (Apr 22, 2014)

If someone said to me ive improved my ball striking I wouldn't necessarily think his
handicap would have come down.
If someone said there putting had improved considerably I would definitely think
there handicap would have dropped.
Or even there short game.
Someone said this.
I for one understand where Phils coming from,i would also be looking for a results 
improvement.
Going back to the op,i improved considerably recently due to working
continuously on my short game and getting exact yardages.
These 2 things will definitely get your handicap down.


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## G_Mulligan (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The only thing that matters there is the county champ - which county ? 

Did you mention that last time ? 

Understand someone asked if you could post someone's "improvements" as they were visiting you so that we could see the upward curve ? Can you do that ?
		
Click to expand...

that is rediculous to suggest the peer reviewed journals with high participant numbers, statistical analysis, control groups, and background theory would be less worthwhile than one psychologist helping one golfer win a tournament. Where do you think I got the techniques to work on with him?

I have qualifications so as per your previous post I should not have to back up what I am saying just like the ICY wedge guy, he is a wedge builder how do you know what handicap he plays off? 

As was mentioned in that thread which is being referred to I am posting our sessions as a case study but due to client confidentiality he has been given an assumed name and no other details of who he is can be disclosed.

With regards to this thread, the OP asked for advice, Homer was one of the first to reply and gave him some advice and a link to a website. You came in and disagreed first, homer disagreed with your disagreement. You went on the offensive asking in a rather rude manner for him to prove what he was saying and mocking his ability and recent performances. Somehow we got into another long drawn out thread with the PSR rearing it's head once again.


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## pokerjoke (Apr 22, 2014)

rossymcg said:



			My post regarding my range routine, which someone tried to be clever about and said practice not having a PSR,
The reason I do my practice routine the way I do because it's how my coach has told me to do it, my coach being David Ridley, England A squad coach and coach to players on every professional tour, I strongly believe Daves coaching techniques to be far superior and advanced than Liverpoolphil thoughts and views in the game if golf,
		
Click to expand...

Has your handicap come down as a result.


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## Foxholer (Apr 22, 2014)

rossymcg said:



			My post regarding my range routine, which someone tried to be clever about and said practice not having a PSR,
The reason I do my practice routine the way I do because it's how my coach has told me to do it, my coach being David Ridley, England A squad coach and coach to players on every professional tour, I strongly believe Daves coaching techniques to be far superior and advanced than Liverpoolphil thoughts and views in the game if golf,
		
Click to expand...

Ah, but can you prove it - with your results? :rofl:



Liverpoolphil said:



			See there is more proof !
		
Click to expand...

Eh? What? Where!

You are spouting nonsense! There's no 'proof' in that statement - though I believe it's correct!

And you are totally contradicting yourself in the process!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

A guy improving show actual practical results - that's what I look at.

I have seen a club golfer have a session with Karl Morris and his game fall apart and have his handicap go up 2 shots in that period - believes since that session his head is full of nonsense.

20 golfers went to 3 hour group session with him - since then one person has improved their handicap with 18 not wanting another session with him. 

That's a snippet of golfers around the world but speaks volumes for me even though I know other people have seen Karl Morris and shown improvement. 

You are qualified - as with the other coaches. Those coaches have results to back up their ability. It will be interesting to read how you improve and your subject improves


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## Johnny Bravo (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			More putts drop in the hole - would say my "make" percentage from 6ft has increased by a good 50-75%

First round I used it I had if I'm remembering correctly 23 putts 

Before the change I opened the face regulary ( especially on short putts )
		
Click to expand...

Hi Phil

when did you start using the new method I noticed you had a howler a few weeks ago with only a handful of pars and a barrow load of bogies and a double. Good round at the weekend mind you and see's you scrape back into Cat 1 for now


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## chrisd (Apr 22, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Won the KoK qualifier. QED
		
Click to expand...

And nearly killed the group in front!


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## rossymcg (Apr 22, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			Has your handicap come down as a result.
		
Click to expand...

Once Dave took me on, my scores got a lot worse before they became better, but then my shot making better, he taught me how to practice and how to monitor my practice sessions, and the importance if a PSR, 
Everything improved working with Dave
My pre shot routine you wouldn't notice it as being out of the ordinary because it doesn't last long, only a stand behind the ball, visualise the shot, a slow swing feeling the movements required to make the shot, a quick full swing to take that feeling over the ball, line up and pull the trigger


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## Foxholer (Apr 22, 2014)

chrisd said:



			And nearly killed the group in front!
		
Click to expand...

Were you the subject of that 'assault'?!

That's 2 near misses! Is the next one going to get you? Or are you a liability to play with!


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## 3565 (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A guy improving show actual practical results - that's what I look at.

I* have seen a club golfer have a session with Karl Morris and his game fall apart and have his handicap go up 2 shots in that period - believes since that session his head is full of nonsense.*

20 golfers went to 3 hour group session with him - since then one person has improved their handicap with 18 not wanting another session with him. 

That's a snippet of golfers around the world but speaks volumes for me even though I know other people have seen Karl Morris and shown improvement. 

You are qualified - as with the other coaches. Those coaches have results to back up their ability. It will be interesting to read how you improve and your subject improves
		
Click to expand...

When seeking improvements or change there is always a decline when implementing technique, swing, thoughts, and a LOT of work to see the changes to fruition. You can't expect after one session to be playing mind blowing golf. You have to put the work in and apply that in a game situation and in my experience sometimes you exaggerate the changes, which will hold you back, that's why you go back and cure that, then hopefully you get it. What I say to those 18, is that they wasn't prepared to do the work and stick at it tbh. 

Just cos out of 20, 18 didn't want to go back doesn't give you the proof that it doesn't work as that is up to the individual who is prepared to work at it. I was fortunate at the age of 11 to have had Seve's arm on my shoulder and ask me who my favourite golfer was? Did I get his short game magic .............?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

3565 said:



			When seeking improvements or change there is always a decline when implementing technique, swing, thoughts, and a LOT of work to see the changes to fruition. You can't expect after one session to be playing mind blowing golf. You have to put the work in and apply that in a game situation and in my experience sometimes you exaggerate the changes, which will hold you back, that's why you go back and cure that, then hopefully you get it. What I say to those 18, is that they wasn't prepared to do the work and stick at it tbh. 

Just cos out of 20, 18 didn't want to go back doesn't give you the proof that it doesn't work as that is up to the individual who is prepared to work at it. I was fortunate at the age of 11 to have had Seve's arm on my shoulder and ask me who my favourite golfer was? Did I get his short game magic .............?
		
Click to expand...

The session was 13 months ago and they guy who has suffered has tried the person methods every single time he has played 

I do like your reasoning for it not working or for 18 people not wishing to see him again - because they didn't work at it enough !! Yes that just be the reason because it couldn't be anything else like - mind coaches don't work for everyone !


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## 3565 (Apr 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The session was 13 months ago and they guy who has suffered has tried the person methods every single time he has played 

I do like your reasoning for it not working or for 18 people not wishing to see him again - because they didn't work at it enough !! Yes that just be the reason because it couldn't be anything else like - mind coaches don't work for everyone !
		
Click to expand...

and so does your approach to the game, doesn't work for everyone. Did you walk away and say, ok, I will put some of what he said into practise or did you, I would suspect say,  what a load of tosh and not bother!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2014)

3565 said:



			and so does your approach to the game, doesn't work for everyone. Did you walk away and say, ok, I will put some of what he said into practise or did you, I would suspect say,  what a load of tosh and not bother!
		
Click to expand...

I didn't go - I wasn't going to give money to someone to tell me how to think on a golf course. 

The people paid nearly Â£50 per person and most attempted to implement his methods of thinking and most gave up because it cluttered their heads. 

My FC has been trying it for months and months and finally gave up and went back to his old way of thinking.


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## Sir Scoop-A-Lot (Apr 22, 2014)

ma_bass said:



			This looks really interesting, would you recommend? Anyone else have any experience with this?
		
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This looks really good.


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## Imurg (Apr 22, 2014)

Sweet Jesus there's been some tripe posted on this thread...
Some people really aren't thinking before typing...

Homer has a PSR
He says it helps him
Some people have virtually demanded he backs that up with proof.
For some reason "proof" means a handicap cut.
Maybe just maybe the proof is that Homer's handicap is relatively steady - he's been around the 10-12 mark for some time now.
Maybe, just maybe, Homer's PSR is preventing his handicap from going through the roof......
Anyone thought about that?
Thought not.....
Just because something "works" it doesn't automatically lead to a cut
It may simply lead to staying put........

But that's not very interesting so wouldn't lead to pages of tripe that just seem to be increasing post counts..


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## Johnny Bravo (Apr 22, 2014)

But that's not very interesting so wouldn't lead to pages of tripe that just seem to be increasing post counts..[/QUOTE]

:thup: Well said


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## Slab (Apr 23, 2014)

Shame the thread went well off topic but its like car chase TV and difficult to stop reading, so I would now like to be able to download it as a podcast 
_(and I'd like Stephen Fry & Britney Spears to do the voice-overs, the protagonists can choose) _


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## guest100718 (Apr 23, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Then you'd be wrong!

Just not knowingly/deliberately.


Nope - that would leave an 'updated...' line.


Only 'demand' (note the quotes) was from CMAC who got things arse about face.




For those with aspirations, it's either that or admit their (our) lack of talent!

Something easily harvestable by the marketeers!
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but he knew exactly what he was doing.  I have worked in IT long enough to know these sort of thing dont just "happen"


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## londonlewis (Apr 23, 2014)

I couldn't resist getting involved and winding Phil up!



Liverpoolphil said:



			Playing golf the way I believe it should be - as an enjoyable hobby :thup:
		
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If it is so enjoyable ...



Liverpoolphil said:



*Slow golfers are the bane of my life *

Click to expand...

why do you get annoyed at other people playing golf as a hobby? 

I bet you are one of those people that launch balls into the green before the group ahead are safely clear...


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## londonlewis (Apr 23, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Happy to accept people's opinion when they have some basis behind them 

When someone disagrees with what I say then I would expect them to show me why their opinion is more valid - when it comes to golf and you say you disagree with me and your ideas so far seem to be taking you handicap in an upward motion as opposed to showing me that they are actually working then I will not agree with you. 

So I just asked you to show me the proof of why you disagree with me - you got all defensive - that's not my issue I'm afraid.
		
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There is no such thing as a right or wrong opinion - it is just an opinion, which is why people don't need to back up their opinions by providing facts and proof. 

For example; my favourit colour is blue. Do I need to justify this against all other colours in the rainbow?


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## HawkeyeMS (Apr 23, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Sorry but he knew exactly what he was doing.  I have worked in IT long enough to know these sort of thing dont just "happen"
		
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Actually, these sort of things can and do just happen. Most often they don't but they certainly can. In this instance, I suspect it was accidental, it may be that Phil did delete it but didn't realise he had. I do things like this when using the touchpad mouse on my work laptop all the time.


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## guest100718 (Apr 23, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Actually, these sort of things can and do just happen. Most often they don't but they certainly can. In this instance, I suspect it was accidental, it may be that Phil did delete it but didn't realise he had. I do things like this when using the touchpad mouse on my work laptop all the time.
		
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BS and you know it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 23, 2014)

To put it simply Paddy 

If something was changed then it was purely by accident and something I haven't realised i did and there was no intent 

I would have gone back and amended the post as it seems it have caused a problem but I can't - sorry.


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## HawkeyeMS (Apr 23, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			BS and you know it.
		
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If you say so


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## Foxholer (Apr 23, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Sorry but he knew exactly what he was doing.  I have worked in IT long enough to know these sort of thing dont just "happen"
		
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I've seen a few weird things in my 40+ years of it!

Environmental Glitch.
Program Fault
Unforeseen circumstance
User Error
Deliberate action/attack

Pretty much covers them all

Are you accusing Phil of the last? Or allowing him the 'User Error' excuse/reason, for which he has apologised!


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## guest100718 (Apr 23, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			If you say so
		
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I do.


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## pingwizard (Apr 23, 2014)

I usually bring a score card from different courses and "play the course" on the driving range... Driver, 8 Iron, Wedge, etc. If I hit a 240 drive I check the card and see what distance left and so on. It takes the monotony out of it for me.


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## Foxholer (Apr 23, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			I do.
		
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Be very careful where you use those words!

They can get you into a lot of trouble!


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## the_coach (Apr 23, 2014)

PR.

Practice if done in a structured way with a purpose, results monitored properly will help the person practicing that way improve.

Dragging & bashing balls with no purpose, no intent, no monitoring, will at best give the person some exercise, keep the level of the golf at the same level it was when they started at best but quite often make the swing worse throughout the session so won't help improve the overall game. 
It won't help them progress their technique any, so during play they will keep doing the things they've always done which will get them the results on the course they have always got. 
If the person concerned is happy with this, then no problem, if they want to get better, they are going to have to approach their practice differently.


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## CMAC (Apr 23, 2014)

pingwizard said:



			I usually bring a score card from different courses and "play the course" on the driving range... Driver, 8 Iron, Wedge, etc. If I hit a 240 drive I check the card and see what distance left and so on. It takes the monotony out of it for me.
		
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seriously- that sounds like monotony to me:ears:


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## CMAC (Apr 23, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Go back and check the posts. It's as guest100718 says! And the missing 'don't' in the quote does change the meaning somewhat!

If any apology owed, its Phil to guest100718 (and you to him too) imo!
		
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if I could take you by the hand I would, c'mon simple foxholer, now look at post #71 with no don't, and look at phils quote of #71 in #73 with no don't, in fact phil has quoted it verbatim.........

what part of that do you really not understand? or are you deliberately being obtuse and trying to wind up Phil even more- poor show


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