# Gareth Bale.



## Slime (Apr 16, 2014)

Does anyone know his time for 100 metres.
I've just seen his goal for RM tonight and the pace he's just shown after being barged off the pitch was absolutely stunning.
I don't know about him, but it left me exhausted!


*Slime*.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 17, 2014)

I'll hold my hands up & admit I said he'd struggle after such a big move


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## Beezerk (Apr 17, 2014)

Great player, like above I thought he would be warming the bench but he's really doing the biz over there.


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## guest100718 (Apr 17, 2014)

20 goals and 14 assists.


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## pokerjoke (Apr 17, 2014)

I have watched a lot of Real"s games this season and Bale after a slow start has
turned into a superstar.
He was a one man show at Spurs,but hes definitely part of a team at Real Madrid.
To be honest up front they are a bit greedy at times but Bale has had a lot of assists.
Last night he looked the biggest threat and had about 6 chances or attempt at goal.
His goal was superb showing great pace at the end of the game,finally hes produced
against Barca.
Just on another note was Messi playing?
He did nothing all game.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 17, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			20 goals and 14 assists.
		
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 I'd always be mindful of assists in that team. Didn't Ozil have 40 odd last season? If he does a 10 yard square ball on the halfway line to Ronaldo, who beats 3 men then slots it - is that really an assist?


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## guest100718 (Apr 17, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'd always be mindful of assists in that team. Didn't Ozil have 40 odd last season? If he does a 10 yard square ball on the halfway line to Ronaldo, who beats 3 men then slots it - is that really an assist?
		
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Either way, still good stats.


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## Adi2Dassler (Apr 17, 2014)

If Bale hadn't blatantly dived vs Scotland and instead been shown his second yellow, he wouldn't have on on the pitch to score and Scotland would be on their way to Brasil in June-maybe.

Good player,though.


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 17, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'd always be mindful of assists in that team. Didn't Ozil have 40 odd last season? If he does a 10 yard square ball on the halfway line to Ronaldo, who beats 3 men then slots it - is that really an assist?
		
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Prior to the game last night I read an article that questioned Bale's contribution as he hadn't scored in any big games and most of his goals came in 3-0 wins so didn't affect the outcome. It also stated that his really only significant "assist" in a big game was a ball that he completely miscontrolled but it broke by sheer luck to Ronaldo who buried it....


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## adam6177 (Apr 17, 2014)

I think he's a good player and would love him at Liverpool (so don't get me wrong here), but he's built a massive part of his reputation on the mantra of kicking the ball 20/30/40 yards down pitch and running really fast to beat players....nothing clever or fancy about it, it's like watching a kid play football.

His ball striking is another thing however, great tekkers to get the ball to move like he does.


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## Birchy (Apr 17, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			If Bale hadn't blatantly dived vs Scotland and instead been shown his second yellow, he wouldn't have on on the pitch to score and Scotland would be on their way to Brasil in June-maybe.

Good player,though.
		
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:rofl: good to see you have a good sense of humour :thup:


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## Adi2Dassler (Apr 17, 2014)

Birchy said:



			:rofl: good to see you have a good sense of humour :thup:
		
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Good to see it's not going un-noticed.


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 17, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			If Bale hadn't blatantly dived vs Scotland and instead been shown his second yellow, he wouldn't have on on the pitch to score and Scotland would be on their way to Brasil in June-maybe.

Good player,though.
		
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Indeed, and with our revitalisation under Strachan we'd have been in with a good shout of really shaking them up and winning the world cup.....


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## pokerjoke (Apr 17, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Prior to the game last night I read an article that questioned Bale's contribution as he hadn't scored in any big games and most of his goals came in 3-0 wins so didn't affect the outcome. It also stated that his really only significant "assist" in a big game was a ball that he completely miscontrolled but it broke by sheer luck to Ronaldo who buried it....
		
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Please your insulting our intelligence.


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 17, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			Please your insulting our intelligence.
		
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Don't be such a prat, here's the article....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27032391


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 17, 2014)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ngham-boss-Alex-McLeish-eyes-3m-defender.html
But ended up being the most expensive player in the world. Funny old game.


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## Snelly (Apr 17, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			Please your insulting our intelligence.
		
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It's you're not your.  Without wishing to insult your intelligence, obviously.

Good goal that Bale scored by the way. Amazing too that he didn't collapse when challenged by the touchline.  Obviously quite a strong lad when he wants to stay on his feet.


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## pokerjoke (Apr 17, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Don't be such a prat, here's the article....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27032391

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Of course I believe everything I read in the papers.
As I said before ive watched a lot of his games this year,hes scored goals,had assists
and does a helluva lot more off the ball.
Last night he looked treble the player Messi was but I doubt that will get mentioned.


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## pokerjoke (Apr 17, 2014)

Snelly said:



			It's you're not your.  Without wishing to insult your intelligence, obviously.

Good goal that Bale scored by the way. Amazing too that he didn't collapse when challenged by the touchline.  Obviously quite a strong lad when he wants to stay on his feet. 

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Footbal intelligence not speling


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## guest100718 (Apr 17, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			Footbal intelligence not speling
		
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he could well end up with a league, cup and CL treble. not bad for his first full season at Real


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## pokerjoke (Apr 17, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			he could well end up with a league, cup and CL treble. not bad for his first full season at Real
		
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How?he doesn't do it against big teams.
If he was that bad they wouldn't play him.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 17, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			Of course I believe everything I read in the papers.
As I said before ive watched a lot of his games this year,hes scored goals,had assists
and does a helluva lot more off the ball.
Last night he looked treble the player Messi was but I doubt that will get mentioned.
		
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A few years back Wilshere 'dominated' barca midfield. How is he now?

bale is undoubtably a good player. But still below Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez and Zlatan. 

That said his stats are impressive, would be better if he was main man and had more pens or free kicks. 

Re the goal. It was good, not great. As someone who watched him week out at saints. He's a great talent, but will need to develop skill to pass players in the long run, as his pace will subside with age.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 17, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Indeed, and with our revitalisation under Strachan we'd have been in with a good shout of really shaking them up and winning the world cup..... 

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Sing-along then

We're on the march wi Gordie's Army - we're going to the Brasilia
And we'll really shake up up when we win the World Cup
Cos Scotland are the greatest fitba team

Damn you Bale


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 17, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			Of course I believe everything I read in the papers.
As I said before ive watched a lot of his games this year,hes scored goals,had assists
and does a helluva lot more off the ball.
Last night he looked treble the player Messi was but I doubt that will get mentioned.
		
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I think he's a very good player, cheating so-and-so, but a good player and, yes, had a much better game last night than Messi. I haven't seen many of his games (only tend to watch the classico) but, as I said, was quoting the article. I didn't deserve your sniping.


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 17, 2014)

I knew someone would get it, SILH!

:thup:


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## pokerjoke (Apr 17, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			I think he's a very good player, cheating so-and-so, but a good player and, yes, had a much better game last night than Messi. I haven't seen many of his games (only tend to watch the classico) but, as I said, was quoting the article. I didn't deserve your sniping.
		
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True and im sorry.
Obvoiusly I did not know you were quoting an article.


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## Hooper (Apr 17, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			Footbal intelligence not speling
		
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I see what you did there


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 17, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			True and im sorry.
Obvoiusly I did not know you were quoting an article.
		
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No worries.


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## User62651 (Apr 17, 2014)

Generally acknowledged fitness issues for Bale for first half of season but for a British player to 'make it' abroad is pretty rare so good on him, xenophobia seems to prevail with the average British footballer. Fair play to Bale for aiming as high as possible and going to Spain. Doesn't seem to have the confidence he had at Spurs yet but he's not top dog at RM and he's certainly done well enough at RM for 1st season as a 24yo foreigner. Bayern games will be interesting, their defence looks dodgy and RM can take them with counter-attacking if Ronaldo is fit.

Imo would be good for our national teams if more UK players plied their trade overseas to learn how to make the ball do the work rather than the player. The 100mph up and at 'em British style of football is what we like but gets taken apart by classy passing European and South American teams.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 17, 2014)

Has done well over there 

His pace is massive weapon in La Liga - same with Ronaldo 

Not worth the price tag but certainly a top player


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## Papas1982 (Apr 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Has done well over there 

His pace is massive weapon in La Liga - same with Ronaldo 

Not worth the price tag but certainly a top player
		
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 You're only worth what someone's willing to pay. I'd say compared to Torres or Carroll he's a bargain. Compared to Suarez or Sturridge. Maybe not so much. Think he's gonna make Madrid plenty of shirt money. I belive Beckham shirt sales covered his transfers in one season.  Sure during his career he'll cover his cost.


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## Slime (Apr 18, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			You're only worth what someone's willing to pay. I'd say compared to Torres or Carroll he's a bargain. *Compared to Suarez or Sturridge.* Maybe not so much. Think he's gonna make Madrid plenty of shirt money. *I belive Beckham shirt sales covered his transfers in one season*.  Sure during his career he'll cover his cost.
		
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Different types of players, but I'd go for Bale myself!
I seem to remember that they'd re-couped the transfer fee just on their pre-season tour!


*Slime*.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 18, 2014)

Slime said:



			Different types of players, but I'd go for Bale myself!
I seem to remember that they'd re-couped the transfer fee just on their pre-season tour!


*Slime*.
		
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Inwasnt saying bale was or wasn't better than Suarez or sturridge. Simply implying that at Â£8m and 27m they were very good value in comparison.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 18, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Inwasnt saying bale was or wasn't better than Suarez or sturridge. Simply implying that at Â£8m and 27m they were very good value in comparison.
		
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Suarez wasn't Â£27mil - more like Â£22mil


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## Papas1982 (Apr 18, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Suarez wasn't Â£27mil - more like Â£22mil
		
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Sorry got confused with â‚¬. Either way, my point stands. Both great players, but Suarez would appear better value.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 18, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Sorry got confused with â‚¬. Either way, my point stands. Both great players, but Suarez would appear better value.
		
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If Bale can go for nearly a 100 mil then Suarez can go for over - Bale is good but Suarez is better IMO and even if Suarez didn't play for us it would still be the same.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 18, 2014)

I was sceptical about the move for Bale. I thought he'd struggle like many British players have before. The goal this week was fantastic. Not only did he stay on his feet (rare in Spain anyway) but he effectively gave the defender a ten yard head start with the detour he made off the pitch and still left him for dead. I hope he goes from strength to strength as he is a gifted player and I like to see the best whoever they play for


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## Papas1982 (Apr 18, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If Bale can go for nearly a 100 mil then Suarez can go for over - Bale is good but Suarez is better IMO and even if Suarez didn't play for us it would still be the same.
		
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I think talent wise Suarez maybe better, but teams take marketing into account during purchase and I think they'll make less from Suarez image. As you've got cl sewn up I'm sure he'll stay. If you hadn't it would have been interesting to see what happened. Don't think you'd of received more than 85m though.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 18, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I think talent wise Suarez maybe better, but teams take marketing into account during purchase and I think they'll make less from Suarez image. As you've got cl sewn up I'm sure he'll stay. If you hadn't it would have been interesting to see what happened. Don't think you'd of received more than 85m though.
		
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Yes I agree. Suarez is obviously an excellent player,but he as bad reputation. If Beckham was in his prime now I dread to think how much he'd go for.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 18, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yes I agree. Suarez is obviously an excellent player,but he as bad reputation. If Beckham was in his prime now I dread to think how much he'd go for.
		
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Beckham would have gone for a lot of money, but I dont think he was in the same league as Suarez and bale.

As a "shirt-seller" and general all round celebrity, he is in a sphere of his own.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Beckham would have gone for a lot of money, but I dont think he was in the same league as Suarez and bale.

As a "shirt-seller" and general all round celebrity, he is in a sphere of his own.
		
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That's what I meant,personally I think Beckham was a lot better player than people make out. But I agree not as good as the likes of Suarez.


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## sawtooth (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Beckham....... I dont think he was in the same league as Suarez and bale.
.
		
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IMO you cant make comparisons like that they are different players that bring different things to a team. In certain cases Beckham would bring more to a team than either of those two. In other cases the reverse would be true.  Football is  a team game and the trick is to assemble 11 players with qualities and attributes that together is something greater than the sum of its parts.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 19, 2014)

Bale left the field of play. Did he get permission from the ref to return?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			IMO you cant make comparisons like that they are different players that bring different things to a team. In certain cases Beckham would bring more to a team than either of those two. In other cases the reverse would be true.  Football is  a team game and the trick is to assemble 11 players with qualities and attributes that together is something greater than the sum of its parts.
		
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Beckham was the most overrated player of his generation and maybe before 

As a dead ball player he was good but was a marketing dream - especially when he married that talentless bint

If he was Iain Dowie off the field he wouldn't have the career he did.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Beckham was the most overrated player of his generation and maybe before 

As a dead ball player he was good but was a marketing dream - especially when he married that talentless bint

If he was Iain Dowie off the field he wouldn't have the career he did.
		
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In your Opinion :thup:


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## Slime (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Beckham was the most overrated player of his generation and maybe before *

As a dead ball player he was good but was a marketing dream - especially when he married that talentless bint

If he was Iain Dowie off the field he wouldn't have the career he did.
		
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Uuurrrmmmmm ....................... so you'd be a Liverpool supporter then.
Take your blinkers off for a minute Phil & tell everybody how he managed to get 115 caps for England by being the most overrated player of his generation! Obviously the England managers couldn't see what is so blindingly obvious to you!
And as a dead ball player I would say he was better than good ......................... I'd say he was amongst the greatest of his generation.


*Slime*.


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## Dodger (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Beckham was the most overrated player of his generation and maybe before 

As a dead ball player he was good but was a marketing dream - especially when he married that talentless bint

If he was Iain Dowie off the field he wouldn't have the career he did.
		
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Bitterness oozing from that post.


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## guest100718 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Beckham was the most overrated player of his generation and maybe before 

As a dead ball player he was good but was a marketing dream - especially when he married that talentless bint

If he was Iain Dowie off the field he wouldn't have the career he did.
		
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Football is a team game dotted with moments of genius of which beckham had his share. You just sound like a bitter/jealous Liverpool fan.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Bitterness oozing from that post.

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No not bitter at all - just think he was very overrated as a player and his image got him further than his ability.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Slime said:



			Uuurrrmmmmm ....................... so you'd be a Liverpool supporter then.
Take your blinkers off for a minute Phil & tell everybody how he managed to get 115 caps for England by being the most overrated player of his generation! Obviously the England managers couldn't see what is so blindingly obvious to you!
And as a dead ball player I would say he was better than good ......................... I'd say he was amongst the greatest of his generation.


*Slime*.
		
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Nothing to do with who I support or blinkers - an opinion on a player. 

I found him very overrated - he could cross and deliver a deadball - that doesn't make him amongst the greatest of a generation.


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## Foxholer (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Beckham was the most overrated player of his generation and maybe before 

As a dead ball player he was *good* but was a marketing dream - especially when he married that talentless bint....
		
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Egad! I need to lie down! We agree! Though he was some way better than a 'good' dead ball player imo. Apparently a reasonably inspirational Captain too.  

And Sawtooth is correct, imo, too.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 19, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Bitterness oozing from that post.

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That's what I thought,not sure if there was any need to insult the mans wife.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Nothing to do with who I support or blinkers - an opinion on a player. 

I found him very overrated - he could cross and deliver a deadball - that doesn't make him the greatest of a generation.
		
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Who said he was the greatest of his generation?? I'm sure even Beckham wouldn't claim to be.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Who said he was the greatest of his generation?? I'm sure even Beckham wouldn't claim to be.
		
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Sorry Slime said amongst the greatest of his generation.


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## Dodger (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No not bitter at all - just think he was very overrated as a player and his image got him further than his ability.
		
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No,not at all.:lol: Not even a wee bit,no.

As a Scotsman I hate the guy but to say he was overrated is just plain ridiculous.


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## Foxholer (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Nothing to do with who I support or blinkers - an opinion on a player. 

I found him very overrated - he could cross and deliver a deadball - that doesn't make him the greatest of a generation.
		
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He couldn't track back very well and his tackling was dire at times.

Phil. It appears you have a touch of Suarezitis! Even when 'correct', you are condemned!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Dodger said:



			No,not at all.:lol: Not even a wee bit,no.

As a Scotsman I hate the guy but to say he was overrated is just plain ridiculous.
		
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Nope not bitter - it's just an opinion about a footballer - that's all


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 19, 2014)

But it does make it sound very bitter & personal when you feel the need to insult his wife,after all we were talking football.


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## guest100718 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Nope not bitter - it's just an opinion about a footballer - that's all
		
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A blinkered one at best. He plays for club that dominated english football while yours slid into decline.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			A blinkered one at best. He plays for club that dominated english football while yours slid into decline.
		
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Who is support and the state of my club is irrelevant - and the success of his club is also irrelevant to his own ability 

I'm not saying he is/was a bad player - he was a very good at free kicks and crosses.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			But it does make it sound very bitter & personal when you feel the need to insult his wife,after all we were talking football.
		
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Please put the fishing rod away - it's transparent and pathetic and not sure what you are trying to achieve.


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## guest100718 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who is support and the state of my club is irrelevant - and *the success of his club is also irrelevant to his own ability *

I'm not saying he is/was a bad player - he was a very good at free kicks and crosses.
		
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I doubt very much Fergie would have continued to pick him if he were rubbish and playing no part in manu's success. Unlike Souness and his drinking buddies..


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## guest100718 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Please put the fishing rod away - it's transparent and pathetic and not sure what you are trying to achieve.
		
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Yeah fair point who cares about posh.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			I doubt very much Fergie would have continued to pick him if he were rubbish and playing no part in manu's success. Unlike Souness and his drinking buddies..
		
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What does Souness have to do with Beckham ? 

And when did I call Beckham rubbish ? Or said he played no part in their success ?


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## guest100718 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What does Souness have to do with Beckham ? 

And when did I call Beckham rubbish ? Or said he played no part in their success ?
		
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Whether you mean it or not, your comments about Beckham make you sound like a liverpool fan who is bitter and jealous at the success that he has had at some of Europes biggest clubs.


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## Foxholer (Apr 19, 2014)

And what happened to the discussion about Gareth Bale?

Of course, 1 great goal and the English Press go mad with hyperbole! The actuality and stats don't quite match up - yet! Though I'll accept Pokerjoke's view that he's fitting in well. Auger's well for WC, though the football might be a bit Route-1-ish, especially if Carroll goes too!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			And what happened to the discussion about Gareth Bale?

Of course, 1 great goal and the English Press go mad with hyperbole! The actuality and stats don't quite match up - yet! Though I'll accept Pokerjoke's view that he's fitting in well. Auger's well for WC, though the football might be a bit Route-1-ish, especially if Carroll goes too!
		
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Auger ? 

And WC ? Bale is welsh


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## Slime (Apr 19, 2014)

Foxholer said:



*And what happened to the discussion about Gareth Bale?*

Of course, 1 great goal and the English Press go mad with hyperbole! The actuality and stats don't quite match up - yet! Though I'll accept Pokerjoke's view that he's fitting in well. Auger's well for WC, though the football might be a bit Route-1-ish, especially if Carroll goes too!
		
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:thup:. It was about Gareth Bale.
Also, when I started this thread, (about Gareth Bale), it was far more about his pace than his ability.
I think he's a fabulous player, but his pace for that goal against Barca was just spectacular.
If I'd wanted to start a thread about Beckham's dead ball abilities I would have used a different title ............... maybe something like;
 'David Beckham's dead ball abilities ............................ discuss'.
But everyone knows that he was brilliant in that department, therefore rendering such a discussion as largely meaningless!


*Slime*.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Please put the fishing rod away - it's transparent and pathetic and not sure what you are trying to achieve.
		
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Not fishing at all mate,I'm not a posh fan either,just seemed strange to bring his wife into it. 
& as for calling me pathetic unbelievable coming from you..


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## Papas1982 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Beckham was the most overrated player of his generation and maybe before 

As a dead ball player he was good but was a marketing dream - especially when he married that talentless bint

If he was Iain Dowie off the field he wouldn't have the career he did.
		
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Serously? A dead ball player, he handed countless assists from the wings too. Even without pace I'd back him to reach his target more than any pacey winger we currently have. I think you need to take the Liverpool specs off for a second. Remember your spice boys at wembley?

Yes the media coverage made him a bigger name, but he earnt his chance at UTD and England before she came along. 

He left Madrid too early, he could have easily played the current Gerrard role in an Italian team for years.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 19, 2014)

I think it's pretty obvious how good Bale is,Spurs were pretty much a 1 man team last season. Bale leaves,Spurs spend Â£100m+ & are a worse team for it.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 19, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I think it's pretty obvious how good Bale is,Spurs were pretty much a 1 man team last season. Bale leaves,Spurs spend Â£100m+ & are a worse team for it.
		
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Doesn't help having sherwood in charge either. I reckon he'd try and walk on water if asked if he could?

re op. Maybe Usain Bolt should have been bought in as his replacement?


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 19, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Doesn't help having sherwood in charge either. I reckon he'd try and walk on water if asked if he could?

re op. Maybe Usain Bolt should have been bought in as his replacement?
		
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Yeah Sherwood isn't the greatest. Seemed a very strange decision to give him the job.


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## Foxholer (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Auger ? 

And WC ? Bale is welsh
		
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:rofl:

Too many thoughts of drill fence post holes with an Auger! Try 'Augur'.

And shame he's Welsh - probably for all concerned!



Slime said:



			:thup:. It was about Gareth Bale.
Also, when I started this thread, (about Gareth Bale), it was far more about his pace than his ability.
I think he's a fabulous player, but his pace for that goal against Barca was just spectacular.
		
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I see it even got a comment from some Caribbean guy who apparently runs a bit - and a bit quick!


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## Dodger (Apr 19, 2014)

Not sure how anyone posting on a football thread can not know Bale won't be performing for Engerland in the World Cup.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Serously? A dead ball player, he handed countless assists from the wings too. Even without pace I'd back him to reach his target more than any pacey winger we currently have. I think you need to take the Liverpool specs off for a second. Remember your spice boys at wembley?

Yes the media coverage made him a bigger name, but he earnt his chance at UTD and England before she came along. 

He left Madrid too early, he could have easily played the current Gerrard role in an Italian team for years.
		
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So as I said - he could cross and was good at set pieces hence the assists from the wings 

Bale is streets ahead of him ability wise 

Not sure the relevance of the white suits ?


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## Papas1982 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So as I said - he could cross and was good at set pieces hence the assists from the wings 

Bale is streets ahead of him ability wise 


Not sure the relevance of the white suits ?
		
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the suits was in presponse to it being said he was admired on image only. 

Liverpool players (Redknapp) for example tried to copy and couldn't pull it off. 

Bale le is totally different to beckham. But his 'skill' is pace. I've not seen him beat many players in tight co quarters. He just beats them with pace. That's not skill as far as I'm concerned. But is obviously a very good player. And may become a great one. 

But all talk of beckham being no good and over rated. Is clearly biased and not surprisingly coming from Liverpool corners.  He never claimed to be the greatest. But he was easily the best rm for England at the time.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			the suits was in presponse to it being said he was admired on image only. 

Liverpool players (Redknapp) for example tried to copy and couldn't pull it off. 


Bale le is totally different to beckham. But his 'skill' is pace. I've not seen him beat many players in tight co quarters. He just beats them with pace. That's not skill as far as I'm concerned. But is obviously a very good player. And may become a great one. 

But all talk of beckham being no good and over rated. Is clearly biased and not surprisingly coming from Liverpool corners.  He never claimed to be the greatest. But he was easily the best rm for England at the time.
		
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The suits weren't admired on image only - if anything the suits were derided for their image ?!? 

what exactly where the suits trying to copy and pull off ? Sorry but see zero relevance in the comment in regards mentioning the Spice Boys ? ( how old were you in 95/96 ) 

And again no one has said Beckham is "no good" 

Have seen Bale beat players at close quarters as well as with pace.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The suits weren't admired on image only - if anything the suits were derided for their image ?!? 

what exactly where the suits trying to copy and pull off ? Sorry but see zero relevance in the comment in regards mentioning the Spice Boys ? ( how old were you in 95/96 ) 

And again no one has said Beckham is "no good" 

Have seen Bale beat players at close quarters as well as with pace.
		
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ok, I, ill try word it again. 

I wasn't suggested the suits were admired. 
I mentioned the suits as people were saying that beckham was only thought highly off because of his image and marriage. Not true as if image only counted then the spice boys would have been the centre of England teams for years on end. Beckham got picked on talent first, image second.

Any op was talking of bale. I'd said he's currently in the tier of players alongside Rooney, gerrard, rvp, xavi etc. he may reach the top table with Ronaldo and messi, just have Suarez has done this season.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			ok, I, ill try word it again. 

I wasn't suggested the suits were admired. 
I mentioned the suits as people were saying that beckham was only thought highly off because of his image and marriage. Not true as if image only counted then the spice boys would have been the centre of England teams for years on end. Beckham got picked on talent first, image second.

Any op was talking of bale. I'd said he's currently in the tier of players alongside Rooney, gerrard, rvp, xavi etc. he may reach the top table with Ronaldo and messi, just have Suarez has done this season.
		
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Do you remember them hence asking your age ( believe you said you were early 20's ) 

James - how many England caps ? 

Redknapp , Fowler and Colleymore - all got England caps but all suffered with injuries

Babb and McAteer - Irish 

They were called Spice Boys because they "partied" all the time and then picked the white suits at the FA Cup final they were not a marketing dreams. 

No one said Beckham got picked because of his image !! The press built up the Beckham brand and that Beckham brand was marketed very well and the press went overboard about him 

He was a good player and very good at set pieces but IMO as a player he was overrated - that opinion has nothing to with Liverpool etc so your comment of "spice boys at Wembley " is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the overrating of Beckham. 

Bale is in the second teir of players - that is where he will stay IMO , doesn't have the extra special talent to move him towards the Messi or Ronaldo or Suarez


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## guest100718 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you remember them hence asking your age ( believe you said you were early 20's ) 

James - how many England caps ? 

Redknapp , Fowler and Colleymore - all got England caps but all suffered with injuries

Babb and McAteer - Irish 

They were called Spice Boys because they "partied" all the time and then picked the white suits at the FA Cup final they were not a marketing dreams. 

No one said Beckham got picked because of his image !! The press built up the Beckham brand and that Beckham brand was marketed very well and the press went overboard about him 

He was a good player and very good at set pieces but IMO as a player he was overrated - that opinion has nothing to with Liverpool etc so your comment of "spice boys at Wembley " is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the overrating of Beckham. 

Bale is in the second teir of players - that is where he will stay IMO , doesn't have the extra special talent to move him towards the Messi or Ronaldo or Suarez
		
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Sorry Suarez is not in the same class as Ronaldo or Messi


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Sorry Suarez is not in the same class as Ronaldo or Messi
		
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Believe he is in their class now and has shown it this season - 3rd best player in the world now. 

But that's just my opinion


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## Slime (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No one said Beckham got picked because of his image !! The press built up the Beckham brand and that Beckham brand was marketed very well and the press went overboard about him 

He was a good player and very good at set pieces but IMO as a player he was overrated - that opinion has nothing to with Liverpool etc so your comment of "spice boys at Wembley " is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the overrating of Beckham. 

Bale is in the second teir of players - that is where he will stay IMO , doesn't have the extra special talent to move him towards the *Messi or Ronaldo or Suarez*

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Well, as we're off topic, I have a question to ask everyone except *Liverpoolphil*.
Do people genuinely believe that, after one particularly good season, Suarez is up there with Ronaldo and Messi, both of whom have been turning it on for years.
Personally I don't ...................... in fact, I find the notion ludicrous.


*Slime*.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you remember them hence asking your age ( believe you said you were early 20's ) 

James - how many England caps ? 

Redknapp , Fowler and Colleymore - all got England caps but all suffered with injuries

Babb and McAteer - Irish 

They were called Spice Boys because they "partied" all the time and then picked the white suits at the FA Cup final they were not a marketing dreams. 

No one said Beckham got picked because of his image !! The press built up the Beckham brand and that Beckham brand was marketed very well and the press went overboard about him 

He was a good player and very good at set pieces but IMO as a player he was overrated - that opinion has nothing to with Liverpool etc so your comment of "spice boys at Wembley " is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the overrating of Beckham. 

Bale is in the second teir of players - that is where he will stay IMO , doesn't have the extra special talent to move him towards the Messi or Ronaldo or Suarez
		
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i believe the phrase "most overrated of all time" was used. I'd suggest that lends themselves to people not thinking he was that good. He himself never said he was a great. 

Re re my age. I'm 32. Hence papas1982. 

James to to be fair one caps, but only after he left Liverpool and England ran out of decent keepers. 

Fowler, collymore and Redknapp may have been injured but all were still given plenty of chances at intl and didn't take them. I feel for GOD as he was a fav of mine growing up. Behind Le God of course. 

You can maintain that Liverpool has no basis on your opinion, and maybe it doesn't. But in general I've only ever heard fans of UTDs rivals really slag or underate beckham. Becuase talent aside he gave more to England than many others. He may not have Ben the best England player off all time. But he was one of our best performers.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Believe he is in their class now and has shown it this season - 3rd best player in the world now. 

But that's just my opinion
		
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At start of season, I'd have picked Zlatan. With RVp and Suarez behind.  but having seen less off layman and fact he plays in lesser French league. I'd agree. 

Ronaldo and Messi still clearly 1 and 2. Purely on record of doing it for a few years. 

Not ot sure wether being best attackers makes them best players in the world though. But attacking image always wins. Hence why no JT in player of year awards even though this season he has been immense.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 19, 2014)

Slime said:



			Well, as we're off topic, I have a question to ask everyone except *Liverpoolphil*.
Do people genuinely believe that, after one particularly good season, Suarez is up there with Ronaldo and Messi, both of whom have been turning it on for years.
Personally I don't ...................... in fact, I find the notion ludicrous.


*Slime*.
		
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ludicrous? Right now, if you were in "playground mode". Surely you'd pick Suarez first as he's on best form a and has proven record of being good. Now maybe progressing to great?  I agree that the other two are proven but don't think it is at all ludicrous to align Suarez with them as performance wise he's been above them this season. Nobody has even neem close in last 3/4 years.


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## guest100718 (Apr 19, 2014)

Slime said:



			Well, as we're off topic, I have a question to ask everyone except *Liverpoolphil*.
Do people genuinely believe that, after one particularly good season, Suarez is up there with Ronaldo and Messi, both of whom have been turning it on for years.
Personally I don't ...................... in fact, I find the notion ludicrous.


*Slime*.
		
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Exactly. Those two have been doing it for years at the highest level. Suarez has a league cup with a mid table prem side. No comparison


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			i believe the phrase "most overrated of all time" was used. I'd suggest that lends themselves to people not thinking he was that good. He himself never said he was a great. 

Re re my age. I'm 32. Hence papas1982. 

James to to be fair one caps, but only after he left Liverpool and England ran out of decent keepers. 

Fowler, collymore and Redknapp may have been injured but all were still given plenty of chances at intl and didn't take them. I feel for GOD as he was a fav of mine growing up. Behind Le God of course. 

You can maintain that Liverpool has no basis on your opinion, and maybe it doesn't. But in general I've only ever heard fans of UTDs rivals really slag or underate beckham. Becuase talent aside he gave more to England than many others. He may not have Ben the best England player off all time. But he was one of our best performers.
		
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Think you need to read my posts a bit more carefully - most overrated of his generation - a *GOOD* player and very good at set pieces and crosses. 

It is a simple opinion of the player regardless of who I support 

A player that was blown up in the press , the same press that blew up England to atmospherically overrated and Beckham was at the head of all that. It was that press and the circus attached to Beckham that put me off the England Football Team


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Exactly. Those two have been doing it for years at the highest level. Suarez has a league cup with a mid table prem side. No comparison
		
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Suarez also has done it on the international stage with Uruguay - going to a WC semi final and winning a Copa America 

Suarez has been scoring goals for years - Suarez is currently taking a team from 8th in the league to possibly winning a league title.

Suarez record is proven already


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## Papas1982 (Apr 19, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Exactly. Those two have been doing it for years at the highest level. Suarez has a league cup with a mid table prem side. No comparison
		
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The fact Liverpool was mid table surely makes this seasons stats more commendable? Why is that relevant?


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## Slime (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Believe he is in their class now and has shown it this season - *3rd best player in the world now. *

But that's just my opinion
		
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Suarez may or may not be the 3rd best player at the moment, the point is, whether it's him or not, the world's 3rd best player is still way off 2nd place ............................ and I mean way off!



Liverpoolphil said:



			Suarez also has done it on the international stage with Uruguay - going to a WC semi final and winning a Copa America 

Suarez has been scoring goals for years - *Suarez is currently taking a team from 8th in the league to possibly winning a league title.*

Suarez record is proven already
		
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So are you saying that Liverpool are a one man team? It would certainly appear so.


*Slime*.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Think you need to read my posts a bit more carefully - most overrated of his generation - a *GOOD* player and very good at set pieces and crosses. 

It is a simple opinion of the player regardless of who I support 

A player that was blown up in the press , the same press that blew up England to atmospherically overrated and Beckham was at the head of all that. It was that press and the circus attached to Beckham that put me off the England Football Team
		
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The very fact you claim that the media darling put you off England still stikes me as anti UTD. I've never known supporters if other teams be so againt him. 

I'd also suggest he was a lot better than good. Unless you only class Gerrard as good, as the stats of their careers goals assists wise are pretty similar. Which is surprising as beckham didn't take pens.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Slime said:



			Suarez may or may not be the 3rd best player at the moment, the point is, whether it's him or not, the world's 3rd best player is still way off 2nd place ............................ and I mean way off!



So are you saying that Liverpool are a one man team? It would certainly appear so.


*Slime*.
		
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And I don't think he is way off at all - but that's just my opinion - his record this season is outstanding and he also performs on the international stage - I would currently put him alongside the two of them and next season will see him shine in the CL 

And one man team ? Nope - crucial to our team and a big reason why we are challenging for the title - yes


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			The very fact you claim that the media darling put you off England still stikes me as anti UTD. I've never known supporters if other teams be so againt him. 

I'd also suggest he was a lot better than good. Unless you only class Gerrard as good, as the stats of their careers goals assists wise are pretty similar. Which is surprising as beckham didn't take pens.
		
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Stats ? Stats don't show a great deal that can be seen with the naked eye. 

Not even going to go there on the Gerrard comparison


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## Papas1982 (Apr 19, 2014)

So are you saying that Liverpool are a one man team? It would certainly appear so.


*Slime*.[/QUOTE]

one player can make all the difference. It would appear UTD are only slightly better Liverpool without RVP performing.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Stats ? Stats don't show a great deal that can be seen with the naked eye. 

Not even going to go there on the Gerrard comparison
		
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I know stats don't say it all, but unfortunately your 'unbiased eyes' would only se it one way so I thought I'd use them to assist. But for Gerras performance in Istanbul, think back to beckhams against Greece. For Gerrard against west ham in cup, see Beckham against sours on opening day of season. As a neutral I admire them both. I think Gerrad is the better player, but I'd say not by much. The fact he's been Liverpools hero will create his legend, but beckham played for 3 of the biggest teams in the world. And he played well for them too.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I know stats don't say it all, but unfortunately your 'unbiased eyes' would only se it one way so I thought I'd use them to assist. But for Gerras performance in Istanbul, think back to beckhams against Greece. For Gerrard against west ham in cup, see Beckham against sours on opening day of season. As a neutral I admire them both. I think Gerrad is the better player, but I'd say not by much. The fact he's been Liverpools hero will create his legend, but beckham played for 3 of the biggest teams in the world. And he played well for them too.
		
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And none of that changes my opinion of Beckham - that's quite simple really. 

Gerrard is irrelevant to my opinion and I'm not sure why you are continuing to bring Liverpool into it - it's irrelevant I'm afraid.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And none of that changes my opinion of Beckham - that's quite simple really. 

Gerrard is irrelevant to my opinion and I'm not sure why you are continuing to bring Liverpool into it - it's irrelevant I'm afraid.
		
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Fair enough, i accept your opinion on beckham only being good, don't believe it's unbiased in the slightest. And the Gerrard comparison was used as an example of a player that has been equally good performance wise as beckham and yet I'm sure you believe him to be slightly better than good. But as we've got our usual circle that happens when ever your opinion is involved ill bid you good afternoon :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Fair enough, i accept your opinion on beckham only being good, don't believe it's unbiased in the slightest. And the Gerrard comparison was used as an example of a player that has been equally good performance wise as beckham and yet I'm sure you believe him to be slightly better than good. But as we've got our usual circle that happens when ever your opinion is involved ill bid you good afternoon :thup:
		
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My opinion of Gerrard is irrelevant to my opinion of Beckham :thup:

Have a good afternoon


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 19, 2014)

I'd definitely pick Beckham in his prime over Gerrard. Was much better at International aswell as club level.
Not sure Gerrard would have stood out as much playing amongst some of the players Beckham played with.


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## Dodger (Apr 19, 2014)

I tell you all one thing. Liverpoolphil is the most blinkered poster on the GM Forum when it comes to anything or anyone connected to posters football teams.

Of that there is no doubt,none at all.

Suarez up there with Messi and Ronaldo? Jesus Christ Phil do you really believe that?


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## c1973 (Apr 19, 2014)

Think I'll throw my tuppence worth in. 

I don't think Saurez has quite reached the Messi / Ronaldo level just yet, but I've no doubt at all that he will. He is without doubt the best player on these shores at the moment, and as Liverpoolphil points out has been doing it at international level as well. Only one gripe about him (and Ronaldo tbf) is that he does tend to have a problem keeping his balance at times, although he sure isn't the only one.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Dodger said:



			I tell you all one thing. Liverpoolphil is the most blinkered poster on the GM Forum when it comes to anything or anyone connected to posters football teams.

Of that there is no doubt,none at all.

Suarez up there with Messi and Ronaldo? Jesus Christ Phil do you really believe that?
		
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Yes I do believe that.


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## Slime (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



*And none of that changes my opinion of Beckham* - that's quite simple really. 

Gerrard is irrelevant to my opinion and I'm not sure why you are continuing to bring Liverpool into it - it's irrelevant I'm afraid.
		
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And you wouldn't cosider re-appraising the situation when you appear to be in an overwhelming minority?
Could you not possibly view your opinion as being, possibly, slightly misguided ............................ or just wrong?


*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Slime said:



			And you wouldn't cosider re-appraising the situation when you appear to be in an overwhelming minority?
Could you not possibly view your opinion as being, possibly, slightly misguided ............................ or just wrong?


*Slime*.
		
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Why would I consider changing it based on a handful of people on a forum !!? 

Don't be so ridiculous - my opinion on Beckham won't change regardless of what people say.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 19, 2014)

Dodger said:



			I tell you all one thing. Liverpoolphil is the most blinkered poster on the GM Forum when it comes to anything or anyone connected to posters football teams.

Of that there is no doubt,none at all.

Suarez up there with Messi and Ronaldo? Jesus Christ Phil do you really believe that?
		
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Got to give him 10/10 for consistency tho.


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## Slime (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Why would I consider changing it based on a handful of people on a forum* !!? 

Don't be so ridiculous - my opinion on Beckham won't change regardless of what people say.
		
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And several England managers, Sir Alex Ferguson and managers of Real Madrid and A C Milan.
I didn't realise they were all wrong. 
I bow to your greater knowledge, as I'm sure the above do too!

*
Slime*.

P.S. Arrogant isn't the word, the word is ................................ any suggestions?


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## Dodger (Apr 19, 2014)

Delusional.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Slime said:



			And several England managers, Sir Alex Ferguson and managers of Real Madrid and A C Milan.
I didn't realise they were all wrong. 
I bow to your greater knowledge, as I'm sure the above do too!

*
Slime*.

P.S. Arrogant isn't the word, the word is ................................ any suggestions? 

Click to expand...

When did I say those managers where wrong 

Beckham was a decent player - good at set pieces and good at crosses 

I really cannot see what the problem is with having that opinion. 

Im sorry I don't rate him as highly as others did - not sure how that makes me arrogant or delusional or worthy of people attacking me on a forum.


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## guest100718 (Apr 19, 2014)

There isn't a team in the world that would take Suarez over the other 2 if the offer came up


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			There isn't a team in the world that would take Suarez over the other 2 if the offer came up
		
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But then no one has said they would nor has anyone said he is better than them 

But no team would turn down Suarez also.


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## guest100718 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But then no one has said they would nor has anyone said he is better than them 

But no team would turn down Suarez also.
		
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And he isn't as good either.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			And he isn't as good either.
		
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In your opinion :thup:


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## Slime (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In your opinion :thup:
		
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And the opinion of many people actually within the football industry.
The most recent Ballon D'or was voted on by 1,623 people within the industry, most of them are players and managers.
Ronaldo came 1st with 27.99% of the votes, Messi came 2nd with 24.72% and RibÃ©ry was 3rd with 23.36%.That's over 75% of ALL the votes!
SuÃ¡rez ........................ now he came into the equation in 19th place with a mere 0.39% of the votes.
This was based on their performances during 2013 and was announced just three months ago ................... reasonably up to date I think.

I still don't beleive he is even close to either Ronaldo or Messi.  Hey, just an opinion.


*Slime*.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 19, 2014)

Suarez isn't in the same class as Ronaldo,this isn't my opinion it is fact. But he does fall into the same class as a human as Joey Barton & El hadji Diouf.


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## Foxholer (Apr 19, 2014)

Slime said:



			And the opinion of many people actually within the football industry.
The most recent Ballon D'or was voted on by 1,623 people within the industry, most of them are players and managers.
Ronaldo came 1st with 27.99% of the votes, Messi came 2nd with 24.72% and RibÃ©ry was 3rd with 23.36%.That's over 75% of ALL the votes!
SuÃ¡rez ........................ now he came into the equation in 19th place with a mere 0.39% of the votes.
This was based on their performances during 2013 and was announced just three months ago ................... reasonably up to date I think.

I still don't beleive he is even close to either Ronaldo or Messi.  Hey, just an opinion.


*Slime*.
		
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Beckham never won that award (but Michael Owen did)!

Does that mean Beckham wasn't over-rated, just not 'great'? 



Pin-seeker said:



			Suarez isn't in the same class as Ronaldo,*this isn't my opinion it is fact*.
		
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:rofl: :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Slime said:



			And the opinion of many people actually within the football industry.
The most recent Ballon D'or was voted on by 1,623 people within the industry, most of them are players and managers.
Ronaldo came 1st with 27.99% of the votes, Messi came 2nd with 24.72% and RibÃ©ry was 3rd with 23.36%.That's over 75% of ALL the votes!
SuÃ¡rez ........................ now he came into the equation in 19th place with a mere 0.39% of the votes.
This was based on their performances during 2013 and was announced just three months ago ................... reasonably up to date I think.

I still don't beleive he is even close to either Ronaldo or Messi.  Hey, just an opinion.


*Slime*.
		
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Frank Lampard once came second in that award

Its an award voted by a small percentage ( over 50% of voters didnt vote )and Suarez was never going to get a look in due to his ban last year  - doesnt stop him being up there with the two of them in terms of ability and this season has shown it on the pitch.


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## guest100718 (Apr 19, 2014)

I think medals on the table does the job. Ronaldo loads, Messi even more. Suarez a league cup


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## Papas1982 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Frank Lampard once came second in that award

Its an award voted by a small percentage ( over 50% of voters didnt vote )and Suarez was never going to get a look in due to his ban last year  - doesnt stop him being up there with the two of them in terms of ability and this season has shown it on the pitch.
		
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Are you implying lampard is no good either? Jeepers!!
 There's also an online vote each season, last year MILLIONS and Suarez didn't feature? Guess they're wrong too?

i do presume that if Suarez were ever to win the balon dor you'll not gloat. What with it not counting an all......


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## Papas1982 (Apr 19, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			I think medals on the table does the job. Ronaldo loads, Messi even more. Suarez a league cup
		
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Thinks he's got a few Dutch titles and a copA America too


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 19, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Thinks he's got a few Dutch titles and a copA America too
		
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You can get Dutch titles out of a happy meal


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			I think medals on the table does the job. Ronaldo loads, Messi even more. Suarez a league cup
		
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What international medals has Messi and Ronaldo got ?

Suarez also has league medals. 

Traore has a CL medal - means nothing of his ability.


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## guest100718 (Apr 19, 2014)

The erdevisse is rubbish.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Are you implying lampard is no good either? Jeepers!!
 There's also an online vote each season, last year MILLIONS and Suarez didn't feature? Guess they're wrong too?

i do presume that if Suarez were ever to win the balon dor you'll not gloat. What with it not counting an all......
		
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Im implying that Lampard has never been the second best player in the world - but again he is/was a very good player.

I dont expect Suarez to ever win a Balon D'or


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			The erdevisse is rubbish.
		
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Dont those medals count them ?

Im guessing his Copa America medal also doesnt count


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## guest100718 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Dont those medals count them ?

Im guessing his Copa America medal also doesnt count
		
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The Dutch league is on a par with league 1 maybe? The cops America has no where near the depth of Europe they don't even have enough teams to fill all the spaces. Of course they count, that still puts him miles behind the 2 best players


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			The Dutch league is on a par with league 1 maybe? The cops America has no where near the depth of Europe they don't even have enough teams to fill all the spaces
		
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:rofl:

So im guessing Messi must have a few Copa Americas then.


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## guest100718 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			:rofl:

So im guessing Messi must have a few Copa Americas then.
		
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I don't know what he's won but ide bet it's a lot more than Suarez


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			I don't know what he's won but ide bet it's a lot more than Suarez
		
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It is more because he is a quality player and has played in a top team all his career. 

Think Suarez only has 6 at the moment but hopefully more to come - hopefully a league title to his name this year. Messi is looks like is having a poor season and will possibly end up with nothing.


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## Foxholer (Apr 19, 2014)

Team Medals and Cup have *little* real bearing on how good an individual player is.

That would virtually rule out all Arsenal players in the last (nearly) 10 years! Like Fabregas, Van Persie etc. and most stars of from 'middling' teams as well. In fact, what team awards has Bale won?



Pin-seeker said:



			You can get Dutch titles out of a happy meal

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And having laughed at a previous opinion/fact post, I have to applaud this one! Class! :clap:


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## Piece (Apr 19, 2014)

Beckham was not classed as overrated during his career because managers and knowledgeable fans alike knew exactly what he brought to the team. He was only seemingly overrated by the minority as they failed to understand what his role was or they measured his footballing skill against his massive media persona.

Beckham had a brilliant career based on dead-ball delivery and pin-sharp passing over short and long distances. Both of these skills are very hard and Beckham was the best of his generation. He was rubbish at the glamorous side of football, such as dribbling, heading, holding the ball up, tackling, beating people, but because he was deficient in these areas doesn't mean he wasn't as good a footballer as   'crowd pleasers' like Thierry Henry.


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## Foxholer (Apr 19, 2014)

Piece said:



			Beckham was not classed as overrated during his career because managers and knowledgeable fans alike knew exactly what he brought to the team. He was only seemingly overrated by the minority as they failed to understand what his role was or they measured his footballing skill against his massive media persona.

Beckham had a brilliant career based on dead-ball delivery and pin-sharp passing over short and long distances. Both of these skills are very hard and Beckham was the best of his generation. He was rubbish at the glamorous side of football, such as dribbling, heading, holding the ball up, tackling, beating people, but because he was deficient in these areas doesn't mean he wasn't as good a footballer as   'crowd pleasers' like Thierry Henry.
		
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Pretty spot on description of Beckham.

Not quite so good, imo, on the over-rated rating. I think the media magnified his plus points and ignored his deficiencies. And 'Team Beckham' certainly sold copy! So that's where the over-rating came from imo. Oh and I was thrust into an environment where every young player wanted to 'be like Beckham', so they certainly (over-)rated him!

His actual passing wasn't as good as it should have been either imo. Peter Beardsley leaps to my mind as a great (of at least the short-ish, perfectly weighted one) being responsible for putting the ball on a plate for so many of Andy Cole's goals while at Newcastle! It took Ferguson almost 18 months to actually turn Cole into a proper footballer, changing my attitude to him (Ferguson) in the process.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 19, 2014)

Dodger said:



			I tell you all one thing. Liverpoolphil is the most blinkered poster on the GM Forum when it comes to anything or anyone connected to posters football teams.

Of that there is no doubt,none at all.

Suarez up there with Messi and Ronaldo? Jesus Christ Phil do you really believe that?
		
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Dont you like him taking your title then dodger? This could be the WWF final - where's them decorating ladders?

Piece - wise words about Beckham - spot on.:thup:

guest100718, so if you judge a player on medals:-

Phil Neville was miles better than Le Tiss (domestically). George Best was poorer than Geoff Hurst (internationally)?

Who brought beckham into it...


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## Papas1982 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Dont you like him taking your title then dodger? This could be the WWF final - where's them decorating ladders?

Piece - wise words about Beckham - spot on.:thup:

guest100718, so if you judge a player on medals:-

*Phil Neville was miles better than Le Tiss (domestically).* George Best was poorer than Geoff Hurst (internationally)?

Who brought beckham into it...

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Sorry,what?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Sorry,what?
		
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I believe he was trying to highlight that winning medals doesnt automatically mean you are a better player than someone who didnt win medals

Le Tiss was a massively talented player but won nothing - going by Paddys theory on medals - Traore and Biscan were better players though


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## Papas1982 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I believe he was trying to highlight that winning medals doesnt automatically mean you are a better player than someone who didnt win medals

Le Tiss was a massively talented player but won nothing - going by Paddys theory on medals - Traore and Biscan were better players though
		
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I get  it, missed a few pages. 

Harsh maybe on Neville, always did a good job. But defo not in catergory of le Tiss. Then again, many weren't and got more recognition.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I get  it, missed a few pages. 

Harsh maybe on Neville, always did a good job. But defo not in catergory of le Tiss. Then again, many weren't and got more recognition.
		
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Believe his loyalty held him back - would have and should have won a lot more if he had left but cant blame him for staying loyal to his home club


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 19, 2014)

Le Tiss was a good player at a small club. He wouldn't have cut it at a top club IMO.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Believe his loyalty held him back - would have and should have won a lot more if he had left but cant blame him for staying loyal to his home club
		
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I agree he could have won more trophies. Internationally the fact he didn't play for a big club, or spurs hindered him. Back then it was top club or you were invisible. I remember 97/98 he had 18 goals in contender of the month, then scored a hat trick for England b having been told to impress hoddle. Still didn't make the plan, batty did though???????


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## Papas1982 (Apr 19, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Le Tiss was a good player at a small club. He wouldn't have cut it at a top club IMO.
		
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I suggest you watch a bit more of him. He wasn't fast, but that didn't matter. He would walk around players twice. The fact xavi himself said how respected he was in Europe shows just how good he was. Playing for little saints made people think he wasn't good enough. His highlight reel is as good as any player.!*ANY,*


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree he could have won more trophies. Internationally the fact he didn't play for a big club, or spurs hindered him. Back then it was top club or you were invisible. I remember 97/98 he had 18 goals in contender of the month, then scored a hat trick for England b having been told to impress hoddle. Still didn't make the plan, batty did though???????
		
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Did any clubs bid for him ? 

Didnt AC Milan look to buy him at one point ?


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## Papas1982 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Did any clubs bid for him ? 

Didnt AC Milan look to buy him at one point ?
		
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spurs, rumoured utd, chelsea and ac. Also, Monaco back when collins was there. 

Either way, way, it made no difference. He was stubborn in his belief that if managers (england) we're too stubborn to pick him the so be it. To be fair, in his autobiography he admits that back the he was still on about 75% of what most stars earnt, but if he played in this era he would have moved has money would of been greatly higher.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			spurs, rumoured utd, chelsea and ac. Also, Monaco back when collins was there. 

Either way, way, it made no difference. He was stubborn in his belief that if managers (england) we're too stubborn to pick him the so be it. To be fair, in his autobiography he admits that back the he was still on about 75% of what most stars earnt, but if he played in this era he would have moved has money would of been greatly higher.
		
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I dont blame him for being loyal to one club - its very rare to see these days 

Think Giggs , Teary and Gerrard must be the last of the one club people


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## Papas1982 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I dont blame him for being loyal to one club - its very rare to see these days 

Think Giggs , Teary and Gerrard must be the last of the one club people
		
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Agreed, although I think it may be easier for thise at large clubs with success to make the decision. 

Of course also harder to stay at a level where they can. Swings and roundabouts.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Agreed, although I think it may be easier for thise at large clubs with success to make the decision. 

Of course also harder to stay at a level where they can. Swings and roundabouts.
		
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Im amazed we have kept Gerrard for as long as we didnt - thought he would go abroad to test himself but i know he really wants to win the league with us = said in his book that winning titles with other clubs just wouldnt have the same meaning.

Really hope we can cross the line


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## Papas1982 (Apr 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Im amazed we have kept Gerrard for as long as we didnt - thought he would go abroad to test himself but i know he really wants to win the league with us = said in his book that winning titles with other clubs just wouldnt have the same meaning.

Really hope we can cross the line
		
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obv were quite a few rumours about why he never went to Chelsea. But I'm not sure he'd have been as big abroad, he's brilliant, but not sure any league was a better fit for his game than prem. His game now would suit Europe as he plays so much deeper, but at his peak his Roy of rovers may not have been a perfect for for slower leagues. If anyone deserves a league it's him.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			obv were quite a few rumours about why he never went to Chelsea. But I'm not sure he'd have been as big abroad, he's brilliant, but not sure any league was a better fit for his game than prem. His game now would suit Europe as he plays so much deeper, but at his peak his Roy of rovers may not have been a perfect for for slower leagues. If anyone deserves a league it's him.
		
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the Chelsea/madrid move was all about mis communcation between Gerrard and the club ( namely Parry ) - Parry was supposed to get a new contract sorted straight after Istanbul but delayed for some unknown reasons and Gerrard and Struan( agent ) thought one wasnt going to arrive and Parry wasnt talking to Gerrard - so the Chelsea bid happened and then Gerrard says he wants to leave and then Rafa got involved and lots of talking and the next day the contract is signed and all is good - strange time but thankfully the right result.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 20, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I suggest you watch a bit more of him. He wasn't fast, but that didn't matter. He would walk around players twice. The fact xavi himself said how respected he was in Europe shows just how good he was. Playing for little saints made people think he wasn't good enough. His highlight reel is as good as any player.!*ANY,*

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I've seen enough of him to form my opinion. Like I said he was a good player. I'm not trying to disrespect the bloke,or Southampton. I just don't think he'd have been a big success at a big club. Just my opinion.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 20, 2014)

I'm surprised Gerrard didn't leave Liverpool after the fans started burning his shirt. I remember quite a few rumours about the whole thing at the time.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 20, 2014)

A couple of kids burnt his shirt after being "encouraged" by the sky cameras for better effect and to make a name for themselves 

Players don't leave over trivial things like that.


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## Slime (Apr 20, 2014)

I seem to remember that he'd received some threats of violence, (or even death threats), that would be carried out if he'd ever have left Liverpool for Chelsea, and this was enough to 'persuade' him to stay.


*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 20, 2014)

Slime said:



			I seem to remember that he'd received some threats of violence, (or even death threats), that would be carried out if he'd ever have left Liverpool for Chelsea, and this was enough to 'persuade' him to stay.


*Slime*.
		
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You shouldn't believe gossip


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 20, 2014)

Slime said:



			I seem to remember that he'd received some threats of violence, (or even death threats), that would be carried out if he'd ever have left Liverpool for Chelsea, and this was enough to 'persuade' him to stay.


*Slime*.
		
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Yeah you remember correctly, apparently Suarez received the same treatment when he wanted to leave.suppose it's one way of keeping your players.


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## Slime (Apr 20, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yeah you remember correctly, apparently Suarez received the same treatment when he wanted to leave.suppose it's one way of keeping your players.
		
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No, apparently it's all gossip. 
Phil's got the actual facts though, I'm sure he'll be along shortly to put you right!


*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 20, 2014)

Slime said:



			No, apparently it's all gossip. 
Phil's got the actual facts though, I'm sure he'll be along shortly to put you right!


*Slime*.
		
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Gerrard tells you himself in his book why he didn't leave - because he didn't want too and signed a new contact 

Suarez didn't leave because no one bid a big enough fee for him so there was nowhere for him to go - now he has signed a new contract 

Sorry if those facts don't match up to your rumours and gossip


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## Slime (Apr 20, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Gerrard tells you himself in his book why he didn't leave* - because he didn't want too and signed a new contact 

Suarez didn't leave because no one bid a big enough fee for him so there was nowhere for him to go - now he has signed a new contract 

Sorry if those facts don't match up to your rumours and gossip 

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And ................ as if by magic!
And everything in an autobiography is true .......................... obviously .


*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 20, 2014)

Slime said:



			And ................ as if by magic!
And everything in an autobiography is true .......................... obviously .


*Slime*.
		
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Yes sorry he must have been lying when he signed his new contract , the owner must have been lying and the agent and Carragher and the manager and Gerrards dad !! They all must have been lying because it doesn't suit internet rumours. 

:rofl:


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## Slime (Apr 20, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes sorry he must have been lying when he signed his new contract , the owner must have been lying and the agent and Carragher and the manager and Gerrards dad !! They all must have been lying because it doesn't suit *internet rumours*. 

:rofl:
		
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Internet rumours? 
What internet rumours?


*Slime*.


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## Foxholer (Apr 20, 2014)

Slime said:



			And ................ as if by magic!
		
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:rofl: :rofl: :clap:


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 20, 2014)

Slime said:



			Internet rumours? 
What internet rumours?


*Slime*.
		
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Off death threats forcing him to stay - when it was actually his father he talked him into staying

*Despite claims that death threats against him and his family made him change his mind last summer, it was actually the Anfield captain's father Paul who persuaded him to stay for one more season.* 

Extract from his dads account of the episode


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## Slime (Apr 20, 2014)

I didn't see any of those internet rumours, I was genuinely unaware that they existed.


*Slime*.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 20, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Off death threats forcing him to stay - when it was actually his father he talked him into staying

*Despite claims that death threats against him and his family made him change his mind last summer, it was actually the Anfield captain's father Paul who persuaded him to stay for one more season.* 

Extract from his dads account of the episode
		
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Playing devils advocate here, but if, only if. Gerrard had been threatened to stay. And those threats had worked. He'd hardly be likely to name someone in a book would he? I personally think his reason for leaved was he was seriously annoyed at lack of movement. And let's be honest at the time, the title was well out of reach. But money on the table changed his mind.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 20, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Playing devils advocate here, but if, only if. Gerrard had been threatened to stay. And those threats had worked. He'd hardly be likely to name someone in a book would he? I personally think his reason for leaved was he was seriously annoyed at lack of movement. And let's be honest at the time, the title was well out of reach. But money on the table changed his mind.
		
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Depends on when you are talking about - summer of 04 or summer of 05


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## Papas1982 (Apr 20, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Depends on when you are talking about - summer of 04 or summer of 05
		
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After Istanbul was the threat rumour wasn't it? Like I said, I think it was paper speculation. Just saying that if he had been threatened to stay he'd hardly be inclined to admit it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 20, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			After Istanbul was the threat rumour wasn't it? Like I said, I think it was paper speculation. Just saying that if he had been threatened to stay he'd hardly be inclined to admit it.
		
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The rumoured threats were in the summer of 04 after the Euros


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## Slime (Apr 20, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Just saying that* if he had been threatened to stay he'd hardly be inclined to admit it*.
		
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Exactly :thup:.


*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 20, 2014)

Slime said:



			Exactly :thup:.


*Slime*.
		
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Expect the police would have got involved "IF" it was true - but they didnt. Its a non story and also 10 years old now and hopefully he will be getting his reward for his loyalty in 4 weeks


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