# Scottish v English football



## CMAC (Mar 17, 2014)

I've know for a long time that Scottish football isn't very good and the English PL is better.

Well I watched the Scottish League cup final yesterday then match of the day with a select few English PL games.

The difference isn't as big as people have said..........it's bigger, much much bigger, not just a different planet but a completely different dimension in time and space.



For the avoidance of doubt I thoroughly enjoyed and was entertained by all the EPL games shown.:clap:


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## Birchy (Mar 17, 2014)

Birchy predicts this wont end well.

Im out


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## IanG (Mar 17, 2014)

The REALLY depressing thing is that the SL Cup final was actually a relatively good & open game to watch compared to most of what we find on Sportscene. Sad but true.


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## lex! (Mar 17, 2014)

Light blue touchpaper and....


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## Hacker Khan (Mar 17, 2014)

To be honest I don't think either of us are winning the world cup soon....


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 17, 2014)

I only caught the end of extra time and the direct free kick efforts that each team had from just outside the box rather summed up a nil-nil draw - with both free kicks being blootered way over the crossbar. Disappointing show given the tremendous crowd.  An opportunity to show that Scottish football is OK and more than just Celtic and Sevco lost.


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## CMAC (Mar 17, 2014)

Birchy said:



			Birchy predicts this wont end well.

Im out 

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lex! said:



			Light blue touchpaper and....
		
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well comments like that dont help- its the farthest thing from the intention of the post. I dont follow football, not for a long time since I stopped playing, then I 'stumbled across' the cup final while 'flicking'............yes Flicking!! then watched match of the day when there was nothing else on...........and was pleasantly surprised, so posted to that effect.

It's not a written rule that a football thread should end up badly, says more about the posters if it does.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 17, 2014)

The ICT v Aberdeen game was poor. The ball was airborne for half the game. I thing at one point they had seven headers in a row.
It was like watching volleyball with heads.
However the Hearts v ICT semi final game was a real blood and snotters exciting game to watch. Not as skilful as most EPL games but proper 'mens' fitba.
If the Scottish game had 25% of the money floating around the English game you would see a considerable improvement.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 17, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The ICT v Aberdeen game was poor. The ball was airborne for half the game. I thing at one point they had seven headers in a row.
It was like watching volleyball with heads.
However the Hearts v ICT semi final game was a real blood and snotters exciting game to watch. Not as skilful as most EPL games but proper 'mens' fitba.
If the Scottish game had 25% of the money floating around the English game you would see a considerable improvement.
		
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25%?  5% would make a huge difference for clubs such as mine (St Johnstone).  Solid financial management; pretty good academy, scouting and player development; just bugger all money to attract players from the English Leagues 1 and 2 (realistic - see) who we could develop and build into our team and into something pretty useful.  Ah well - bring on the Sheep in the Scottish Cup semis.


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## hoop67 (Mar 17, 2014)

CMAC said:



			I've know for a long time that Scottish football isn't very good and the English PL is better.

Well I watched the Scottish League cup final yesterday then match of the day with a select few English PL games.

The difference isn't as big as people have said..........it's bigger, much much bigger, not just a different planet but a completely different dimension in time and space.



For the avoidance of doubt I thoroughly enjoyed and was entertained by all the EPL games shown.:clap:
		
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I watched the spanish highlights and compared to the epl spanish football is in a different planet.German football to is much better to watch.Compare the countries with the same kind of money that is thrown at the epl.The best players in the world wouldn't come to the epl.That tells a story.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 17, 2014)

With the amount of money pumped into the EPL compared to SPL it's hardly surprising the difference in quality.


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## mchacker (Mar 17, 2014)

Rooneys weekly wage is almost certainly more than the total of the 22 players who started the final, impossible to compare


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 17, 2014)

Wee Gordy has the national team playing well though, three away wins on the trot. When did that last happen.


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## palindromicbob (Mar 17, 2014)

The difference between EPL and SPL is big but not as big as the difference between IPL and SPL lol.

then you get Barca and Real Madrid and they make the EPL looks so poor in comparison.


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## Rumpokid (Mar 17, 2014)

mchacker said:



			Rooneys weekly wage is almost certainly more than the total of the 22 players who started the final, impossible to compare
		
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..And watch this space,sometime soon the game will be bankrupt..Morally it already is


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## Rumpokid (Mar 17, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Wee Gordy has the national team playing well though, three away wins on the trot. When did that last happen.
		
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Wait til the business end starts..will be same old same old..


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## smange (Mar 17, 2014)

The problem with Scottish football nowadays is for years and years our clubs and international teams punched way above their weights and created a level of expectation that was always going to be difficult to live up to when you remember just how small a country we are and how small a population Scotland has.

When you compare us relatively with countries of the same population we don't actually do too bad. For example Finland has roughly the same population as Scotland but does it be deemed embarrassing when the champions of Finland go out of Europe in the early stages or is it a national shame when they don't qualify for the World Cup? No it's not and I'm sure if you compare Scottish teams results at both club and international level over the years you will find Scotland has done rather better and it will be the same result if you compare us against other small countries of similar sizes.

I know we were the first country ever to qualify (as in through the qualification process and not as hosts/holders) for 5 world cups in a row (from 1974 - 1990) and I doubt any other small country has done it since and very few of the bigger ones will have either and certainly not England (yet).

I'm a Dunfermline Athletic supporter and followed them home and away for 20 years before moving to Ireland and grew up watching Scottish football and I love it, it may not be the best technically or get the biggest crowds but you know what? Watching two teams go at each other blood and thunder excites me way more than watching the tippy-tappy so called technically brilliant style of Barcelona, which bores me to tears.

Wha's Like Us?


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## chris661 (Mar 17, 2014)

After watching some of the cup final between Aberdeen and ICT the only conclusion that can be made is Scottish football is crap. As Smange has pointed out club and national teams have consistently punched above their weight and let expectation rise when in reality even qualifying for anything is a huge achievement for the national team and getting through any qualifying rounds for club teams is about a realistic as we should be. 

That said the quality of football from anywhere say 6th down in the premiership in England seems to be about the same standard but because of the tv deal and being constantly told it is the greatest league in the world some seem to believe the hype....


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 17, 2014)

The Scottish national side doing well and some talented youngsters coming through. The PL is over hyped and I'd rather watch the Spanish or Bundesliga. Technically better players and games seem far more open and entertaining. Sadly the state of the national game is in decline and England will never be as good as the media thinks it should be. The golden goose will die sooner or later and what then?


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## USER1999 (Mar 17, 2014)

Bundesliga is dominated by munich. They buy all the best players, which renders it a no contest. They are barca light, but no messi. Spanish league is real or barca, no one else troubles them. Epl, any one can beat anyone. Witness Chelsea v Aston villa. Epl at its best. It's the best league by far. It just is.


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## chrisd (Mar 17, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The Scottish national side doing well and some talented youngsters coming through. The PL is over hyped and I'd rather watch the Spanish or Bundesliga. Technically better players and games seem far more open and entertaining. Sadly the state of the national game is in decline and England will never be as good as the media thinks it should be. The golden goose will die sooner or later and what then?
		
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Fulham will be promoted back to the PL. :whoo:


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## Foxholer (Mar 17, 2014)

smange said:



			I'm a Dunfermline Athletic supporter and followed them home and away for 20 years before moving to Ireland and grew up watching Scottish football and I love it, it may not be the best technically or get the biggest crowds but you know what? Watching two teams go at each other blood and thunder excites me way more than watching the tippy-tappy so called technically brilliant style of Barcelona, which bores me to tears.

Wha's Like Us?
		
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That sums up what's both good and bad about SPL - and the same really applies to EPL as well imo.

SPL is 120% Commitment 75% Skill/Quality. Played at 110 mph with the skills for 90! Having watched the highlights of the SLC, it didn't look as bad as CMAC implied - but that was only 7 mins, covering 120+ mins of 'Football'!

EPL is 100% Commitment and 80+% Skill/Quality, but there are way more 'quality' teams in EPL than any other League in the world.

Germany really only has 1 team! Spain 2 Portugal 3 maybe? (don't get to see much). Stopped watching Italian Football 20 years ago as it was boring. Don't get to see much South American stuff, but 1 or 2 Clubs seem to dominate in both Brazil and Argentina.

At its best, Spanish is the style I enjoy watching most - high commitment; high skill level - just far too much acting! 15 mins Sin Bin for Diving!


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 18, 2014)

The killer question is.....if the EPL is so good why is Steven Whittaker a participating player.


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## Adi2Dassler (Mar 18, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The killer question is.....if the EPL is so good why is Steven Whittaker a participating player.
		
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HO! Whittaker was a tidy right back for the cabbage.

Anyway, Scottish football is what it is, poorly funded in a small country with health issues in a society where everything is immediate and kids have huge choices compared to when I was growing up.Set against a backdrop for comparison of English,German,Spanish football, it's always going to look bad.

But I love it.In the last week I've followed my team to Inverness and Maryhill, on Saturday I'll be in Perth.Those of us who commit our finances know the level of football, and whilst we'd like it to be better, we'll still continue to watch the teams of our dads.It's always good for someone to let us know from the comfort of their couch what they think,though.

Last time I looked, the combined debt of football clubs in England was creeping towards Â£2 Billion, but don't concentrate on that, just swallow the wee pill supplied by SKY and slag off another league instead.


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## CMAC (Mar 18, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			HO! Whittaker was a tidy right back for the cabbage.

Anyway, Scottish football is what it is, poorly funded in a small country with health issues in a society where everything is immediate and kids have huge choices compared to when I was growing up.Set against a backdrop for comparison of English,German,Spanish football, it's always going to look bad.

But I love it.In the last week I've followed my team to Inverness and Maryhill, on Saturday I'll be in Perth.Those of us who commit our finances know the level of football, and whilst we'd like it to be better, *we'll still continue to watch the teams of our dads.It's always good for someone to let us know from the comfort of their couch what they think,though.*

Last time I looked, the combined debt of football clubs in England was creeping towards Â£2 Billion, but don't concentrate on that, just swallow the wee pill supplied by SKY and slag off another league instead.
		
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if it was the teams of our dads it would be far better and entertaining

as for the comfort of a couch, does that mean an opinion isn't valid? I'm sure you have 'commented' on many games you haven't attended or are you omnipresent :lol: _just a joke in case its not taken that way_

Personally I have been to many many games at all levels..including the excellent Glasgow City FC that I personally contribute funds to and not by buying a ticket.
p.s I don't have sky


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 18, 2014)

Fulham v Motherwell........close game I would say.

I appreciate many football 'fans' living in SE England may never have heard of Motherwell.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 18, 2014)

Would say it wouldn't be close at all - maybe Motherwell vs a Championship team or even Lge 1.


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## Robobum (Mar 18, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



*Luton *v Motherwell........close game I would say.

I appreciate many football 'fans' living in SE England may never have heard of Motherwell.
		
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That's more accurate


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## Dodger (Mar 18, 2014)

Some wonderful knowledge of European football on here.

Armchair loyal at its best.


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## Hacker Khan (Mar 18, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			but there are way more 'quality' teams in EPL than any other League in the world.

Germany really only has 1 team! Spain 2 Portugal 3 maybe? (don't get to see much). Stopped watching Italian Football 20 years ago as it was boring. Don't get to see much South American stuff, but 1 or 2 Clubs seem to dominate in both Brazil and Argentina.
		
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Really?  As there seemed to be 2 German teams in the champions league final last year.  And none from England even got to the quarter finals I don't think.  And we are hardly setting it alight this year either.

The fact that the league is close this year is less an indication of quality in depth but I'd say more of a weakening of the traditional stronger teams who now struggle to compete with the best (or in Man Us case, most) teams in Europe.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 18, 2014)

Are there any English teams left in the CL?


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## ger147 (Mar 18, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			That sums up what's both good and bad about SPL - and the same really applies to EPL as well imo.

SPL is 120% Commitment 75% Skill/Quality. Played at 110 mph with the skills for 90! Having watched the highlights of the SLC, it didn't look as bad as CMAC implied - but that was only 7 mins, covering 120+ mins of 'Football'!

EPL is 100% Commitment and 80+% Skill/Quality, but there are way more 'quality' teams in EPL than any other League in the world.

Germany really only has 1 team! Spain 2 Portugal 3 maybe? (don't get to see much). Stopped watching Italian Football 20 years ago as it was boring. Don't get to see much South American stuff, but 1 or 2 Clubs seem to dominate in both Brazil and Argentina.

At its best, Spanish is the style I enjoy watching most - high commitment; high skill level - just far too much acting! 15 mins Sin Bin for Diving!
		
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5 different clubs have won the Bundesliga over the last 10 seasons so it's hardly accurate to state Germany only really has 1 team.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 18, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Are there any English teams left in the CL?
		
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At the moment yes there are two and btw Fulham v Motherwell would not be close, certainly not throughout a season. 

The majority of SPL teams would struggle in The Championship and I take no pleasure in saying that as I grew up in an era when Scottish clubs were on a par with their English counterparts.


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## smange (Mar 18, 2014)

Further to my earlier post can I add that yes I enjoy watching Scottish football but I have to add do not enjoy or believe some of the incredible decisions that are made by the powers that be running our game.

Their latest masterstroke is that The Rangers will play their Scottish Cup Semi Final at their own ground  

The "neutral venue" was decided at the start of the season, which is fair enough as Hampden is undergoing some work and the final will be played at Celtic Park but why can't they play their semi at Celtic park to at least give some amount of neutrality to the fixture?

To make it more unbelievable (except for those of us who follow scottish football and are never really shocked at decisions made by the governing bodies), Dundee United are only getting 13000 tickets, approximately a quarter of the capacity. So not only are Dundee United playing a semi final tie at the home ground of their opponents their fans will be outnumbered 3/1 and have asked for it to be switched but have been told no.

So much for neutral 

The cynics amongst us may think that maybe the SFA are so intent on keeping it there to ensure The Rangers get a large chunk of the proceeds from the match for hosting it in an attempt to ensure they are still around long enough for their knight in shining armour to come and save them from another bout of administration, thankfully I'm not that cynical


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## Dodger (Mar 18, 2014)

smange said:



			Further to my earlier post can I add that yes I enjoy watching Scottish football but I have to add do not enjoy or believe some of the incredible decisions that are made by the powers that be running our game.

Their latest masterstroke is that The Rangers will play their Scottish Cup Semi Final at their own ground  

The "neutral venue" was decided at the start of the season, which is fair enough as Hampden is undergoing some work and the final will be played at Celtic Park but why can't they play their semi at Celtic park to at least give some amount of neutrality to the fixture?

To make it more unbelievable (except for those of us who follow scottish football and are never really shocked at decisions made by the governing bodies), Dundee United are only getting 13000 tickets, approximately a quarter of the capacity. So not only are Dundee United playing a semi final tie at the home ground of their opponents their fans will be outnumbered 3/1 and have asked for it to be switched but have been told no.

So much for neutral 

The cynics amongst us may think that maybe the SFA are so intent on keeping it there to ensure The Rangers get a large chunk of the proceeds from the match for hosting it in an attempt to ensure they are still around long enough for their knight in shining armour to come and save them from another bout of administration, thankfully I'm not that cynical  

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With regards the allocation do you honestly think it should be a 50/50 split?

Try it, go on, try it. Be great to see a crowd of sub 40k with 12k spares or worse still a crowd of 45k with 6k bears sitting in the wrong end..............that cannot be good for anyone.

I am all for going with a 50/50 split of say 24k each but Utd would end up handing back at least 10k worth of tickets.

The decision to play Aberdeen v Saints at CP baffles everyone but as we know it is the SFA we are talking about and they have been know to bend over backwards for the filth on many occasions. 

The SFA is corrupt to the core and has been for years.


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## smange (Mar 18, 2014)

Dodger said:



			With regards the allocation do you honestly think it should be a 50/50 split?

Try it, go on, try it. Be great to see a crowd of sub 40k with 12k spares or worse still a crowd of 45k with 6k bears sitting in the wrong end..............that cannot be good for anyone.

I am all for going with a 50/50 split of say 24k each but Utd would end up handing back at least 10k worth of tickets.

The decision to play Aberdeen v Saints at CP baffles everyone but as we know it is the SFA we are talking about and they have been know to bend over backwards for the filth on many occasions. 

The SFA is corrupt to the core and has been for years.
		
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I agree that we don't want to see a lot of empty seats but United should have at least been given a chance to sell half the allocation and any unsold tickets then given to The Rangers. The make up of Ibrox stadium would have made that very easy to do. It's still nearly four weeks until the game so no big panic trying to punt the tickets quickly. 

You and I both know that United were never going to sell 25000 tickets but at least it would have given them and their supporters a chance to get some amount of neutrality in the game and if they don't sell out they can't complain.

Is it not both semis at Ibrox over the two days and the final at Celtic Park?


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## Dodger (Mar 18, 2014)

smange said:



			I agree that we don't want to see a lot of empty seats but United should have at least been given a chance to sell half the allocation and any unsold tickets then given to The Rangers. The make up of Ibrox stadium would have made that very easy to do. It's still nearly four weeks until the game so no big panic trying to punt the tickets quickly. 

You and I both know that United were never going to sell 25000 tickets but at least it would have given them and their supporters a chance to get some amount of neutrality in the game and if they don't sell out they can't complain.

Is it not both semis at Ibrox over the two days and the final at Celtic Park?
		
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Not sure,I lost interest in that diddy cup.

Move it to CP with a split of 20k for Arabs and 40k for them.............still Utd would moan then hand back at least 6k tickets.

Highlights the fact that nowhere outside of Glasgow is suitable to host such games but there is no need for any large stadiums outside of these three in Glasgow.

Move it to Manchester.............the filth will go down well there I am sure....oh no,haud on.


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## hoop67 (Mar 18, 2014)

Think you are being a bit unfair on fc zombie of rangers......As many of there orcs should get the chance to see their team compete in their first ever scottish cup semi final.


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## Rumpokid (Mar 18, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Fulham v Motherwell........close game I would say.
Not as close as if Airbus UK were playing Fulham..
		
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## chris661 (Mar 18, 2014)

Chaps keep this civil.

Be warned.


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## shewy (Mar 18, 2014)

Right several points,
1 my team won the cup at the weekend!!!!!
2 at least 2 Scottish teams have more European trophies than most of the epl teams.
3 take the foreign players out of the epl and the quality would be mince
4 if the old firm joined the epl then they would be top 4 within a few seasons as they are much bigger clubs than all bar 2 teams in the epl.
5 the lack of funds in Scotland can only be good for the national team,they have to promote from within now instead of buying mediocre foreign players


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 18, 2014)

shewy said:



			Right several points,
1 my team won the cup at the weekend!!!!!
2 at least 2 Scottish teams have more European trophies than most of the epl teams.
3 take the foreign players out of the epl and the quality would be mince
4 if the old firm joined the epl then they would be top 4 within a few seasons as they are much bigger clubs than all bar 2 teams in the epl.
5 the lack of funds in Scotland can only be good for the national team,they have to promote from within now instead of buying mediocre foreign players
		
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Much bigger than all bar 2 ? Which two and in what way are they bigger ?


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 18, 2014)

Rumpokid said:





Doon frae Troon said:



			Fulham v Motherwell........close game I would say.
Not as close as if Airbus UK were playing Fulham..
		
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Getaway......Forres Mechanics would take Airbus UK apart.
		
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## Pin-seeker (Mar 18, 2014)

shewy said:



			Right several points,
1 my team won the cup at the weekend!!!!!
2 at least 2 Scottish teams have more European trophies than most of the epl teams.
3 take the foreign players out of the epl and the quality would be mince
4 if the old firm joined the epl then they would be top 4 within a few seasons as they are much bigger clubs than all bar 2 teams in the epl.
5 the lack of funds in Scotland can only be good for the national team,they have to promote from within now instead of buying mediocre foreign players
		
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But the foreign players are in the EPL. I'm pretty sure if you took foreign players out of both the EPL & the SPL,the EPL would still be much better. 
And if the Old firm teams joined the EPL they would have to pay some seriously high wages to attract top players as I can't see the likes of Suarez,Hazard,Rooney...., really wanting to move to Scotland. (No offence)


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 18, 2014)

shewy said:



			Right several points,
1 my team won the cup at the weekend!!!!!
2 at least 2 Scottish teams have more European trophies than most of the epl teams.
3 take the foreign players out of the epl and the quality would be mince
4 if the old firm joined the epl then they would be top 4 within a few seasons as they are much bigger clubs than all bar 2 teams in the epl.
5 the lack of funds in Scotland can only be good for the national team,they have to promote from within now instead of buying mediocre foreign players
		
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1 The quality of the match was terrible
2 Five English clubs have won the European Cup/Champions League 12 times between them
3 Take the foreign players out of any of the leagues in Europe and the standards would drop
4 Purely hypothetical as it is never going to happen
5 If you have a narrow base then the peak will not be too high


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## Adi2Dassler (Mar 18, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Not sure,I lost interest in that diddy cup.

Move it to CP with a split of 20k for Arabs and 40k for them.............still Utd would moan then hand back at least 6k tickets.

*Highlights the fact that nowhere outside of Glasgow is suitable to host such games but there is no need for any large stadiums outside of these three in Glasgow.*

Move it to Manchester.............the filth will go down well there I am sure....oh no,haud on.
		
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So why are your team playing Champs League qualifiers at Murrayfield?I get your point but it has a flaw.


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## ger147 (Mar 18, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			So why are your team playing Champs League qualifiers at Murrayfield?I get your point but it has a flaw.
		
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A one off - Celtic Park not available, Hampden not available and there's no way the Celtic fans would stand for Celtic paying a fee to use Ibrox.


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## Dodger (Mar 18, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			So why are your team playing Champs League qualifiers at Murrayfield?I get your point but it has a flaw.
		
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Because it is the only stadium in Scotland left capable of housing the attendance we will command.

The 3 Glasgow stadiums are tied up for use for the Commonwealth Games so it is left to a Rugby Stadium to fill the gap as, as I have already stated, there are no stadiums outside these 3 capable of holding more than 20k.

A Rugby one yes,but the SFA don't wish the money to go to the egg chasers for housing their flagship cup.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 18, 2014)

How big are the grounds at the Dundee teams and Pittodrie ?


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## Dodger (Mar 18, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How big are the grounds at the Dundee teams and Pittodrie ?
		
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Aberdeen is around the 20k mark and Tannadice 14k I think from memory.

Both are not the best although I like Utd's for atmosphere when full although not as good as a packed Tynie for noise.


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## shewy (Mar 18, 2014)

That leaves 15 teams in the el who have won nowt then!
I agree it was a poor game, but I've seen some good games this season, equally I've seen poor games in the el and some crackers.my point being it's not all doom and gloom

Oh btw Liverpool and man u, and by fan base


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## stevek1969 (Mar 18, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Aberdeen is around the 20k mark and Tannadice 14k I think from memory.

Both are not the best although I like Utd's for atmosphere when full although not as good as a packed Tynie for noise.
		
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The Stadium Of Light or the home of Dundee FC holds 12000 and wouldn't pass UEFA safety regs.


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## smange (Mar 18, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How big are the grounds at the Dundee teams and Pittodrie ?
		
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Tannadice -14209
Dens Park - 11500
Pittodrie - 22199


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 18, 2014)

shewy said:



			That leaves 15 teams in the el who have won nowt then!
I agree it was a poor game, but I've seen some good games this season, equally I've seen poor games in the el and some crackers.my point being it's not all doom and gloom

Oh btw Liverpool and man u, and by fan base
		
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Wrong I am afraid. I only referred to the premier competition and excluded Cup Winners' Cup, UEFA Cup etc; had I not then at least a further three teams have won trophies. Significantly more than Scottish teams have managed.

As for standard of games I suppose it is a case of what you are used to and will accept.

Fan base can never be accurately measured although I do not dispute that Rangers and Celtic are big clubs. However, attendances can and these would suggest that there are other English clubs that should be included within the equation.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 18, 2014)

shewy said:



			That leaves 15 teams in the el who have won nowt then!
I agree it was a poor game, but I've seen some good games this season, equally I've seen poor games in the el and some crackers.my point being it's not all doom and gloom

Oh btw Liverpool and man u, and by fan base
		
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Newcastle have a massive fanbase - they aren't in regular top 4

I would expect the clubs to fight alongside Everton for Europa Lge spots regulary


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## CheltenhamHacker (Mar 18, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Fulham v Motherwell........close game I would say.

I appreciate many football 'fans' living in SE England may never have heard of Motherwell.
		
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Have you heard of every football team from Finland, or from the second/third French divisions Doon? Scotland was compared to them above, so therefore I would expect such an indepth knowledge, otherwise how can you judge those who don't know Scottish leagues?


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 19, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Have you heard of every football team from Finland, or from the second/third French divisions Doon? Scotland was compared to them above, so therefore I would expect such an indepth knowledge, otherwise how can you judge those who don't know Scottish leagues?
		
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Many of those 'fans' are always very quick to make critical posts about Scots football.
Are you now saying they have no knowledge to back up their posts.


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## Hacker Khan (Mar 19, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Chaps keep this civil.

Be warned.
		
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If I swear and use abusive language, will that ensure that this thread is closed to stop the endless tedious conversations about 'big clubs' and the merits of English V Scottish football?

If so then shut *** **** u* you ******** bunch of ******* ********s


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## smange (Mar 19, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			If I swear and use abusive language, will that ensure that this thread is closed to stop the endless tedious conversations about 'big clubs' and the merits of English V Scottish football?

If so then shut *** **** u* you ******** bunch of ******* ********s 

Click to expand...

The clue to the thread is in the title.

If you are so fed up and bored of these threads why bother opening the thread and even more so why go to the bother of posting on the thread?

It's simple really, if you don't want to read about certain subjects don't open the thread but there are, as has been shown so far some people who can and want to discuss these things.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 19, 2014)

Dodger said:



			The decision to play Aberdeen v Saints at CP baffles everyone
		
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Except Aberdeen fans who think they'll bring 40k to the match.  Saints might bring 5k.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 19, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			If I swear and use abusive language, will that ensure that this thread is closed to stop the endless tedious conversations about 'big clubs' and the merits of English V Scottish football?

If so then shut *** **** u* you ******** bunch of ******* ********s 

Click to expand...

You are not obliged to read or join any thread. If you find this one tedious just ignore it, I have found that to be a successful way of dealing with posts that I find boring or irrelevant.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 19, 2014)

It's all very well bemoaning the current state of Scottish football, I like to look back and remember the good old days when we were the best team in the world......


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## MegaSteve (Mar 19, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			It's all very well bemoaning the current state of Scottish football, I like to look back and remember the good old days when we were the best team in the world......
		
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For about one day in April '67 ...


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 19, 2014)

I think most SPL teams would at first struggle in League 1 but would in a couple of seasons get up to speed - and in a few years more some could get out of that league and become fairly competitive in the Championship.  Only the main Glasgow clubs and maybe Aberdeen and Hearts would build the wherewithal to have a chance of getting into the EPL.


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## Slime (Mar 19, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			With the amount of money pumped into the EPL compared to SPL it's hardly surprising the difference in quality.
		
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With the difference in quality between the EPL and the SPL it's hardly surprising the difference in money pumped in.


*Slime*


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 19, 2014)

Slime said:



			With the difference in quality between the EPL and the SPL it's hardly surprising the difference in money pumped in.


*Slime*

Click to expand...

TouchÃ©


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## shewy (Mar 19, 2014)

Slime said:



			With the difference in quality between the EPL and the SPL it's hardly surprising the difference in money pumped in.


*Slime*

Click to expand...


Well if money equals quality then I'll wait to see how far England get in the world cup


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## stevie_r (Mar 19, 2014)

shewy said:



			Well if money equals quality then I'll wait to see how far England get in the world cup 

Click to expand...

You cannot compare national leagues and national sides, modern football doesn't work that way.


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## shewy (Mar 19, 2014)

Hehe didn't take long for a bite.
my point being throwing money at something does not necessarily make a quality product, personally I'm sick of watching all these overpaid players diving and cheating every game like they have been shot . I'll take the blood and thunder of the lower league's and jock league any day.


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## stevie_r (Mar 19, 2014)

The EPL has seen some top quality football this season, anyone who denies that is either A. Clueless B. Fairly bitter or C. Full of BS.


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## Slime (Mar 19, 2014)

shewy said:



			Hehe didn't take long for a bite.
my point being throwing money at something does not necessarily make a quality product, personally I'm sick of watching all these overpaid players diving and cheating every game like they have been shot . *I'll take the blood and thunder of the lower league's and jock league any day.*

Click to expand...

I prefer watching good football, so I'll stick with the Premier League!

*Slime*


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 19, 2014)

shewy said:



			Well if money equals quality then I'll wait to see how far England get in the world cup 

Click to expand...

Slightly further than Scotland.


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## Slime (Mar 19, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Slightly further than Scotland.
		
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5,880 miles further to be precise! :rofl:


*Slime*


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 27, 2014)

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/...-reports/scotland-u17s-3-belgium-u17s-3289457

There you go then.....Scotland reach a European Qualifier.


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## CMAC (Mar 27, 2014)

I heard on the radio (football phone in I think) about some horrendous scenes at an under 17 game which is quite sad, dont think it was this one but they talked as if it happened within the last 2 weeks?


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## Adi2Dassler (Mar 27, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			The EPL has seen some top quality football this season, anyone who denies that is either A. Clueless B. Fairly bitter or C. Full of BS.
		
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No doubt it's been terrific.If you could remove the insane level of coverage in the media,over egged hype and sterility I'd enjoy it a whole lot more, but I guess everyone thinks that.


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## shewy (Mar 27, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/...-reports/scotland-u17s-3-belgium-u17s-3289457

There you go then.....Scotland reach a European Qualifier.
		
Click to expand...


A product of being skint,we have to blood our own now,I think the future is not so bad for Scottish fitba!


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## One Planer (Mar 27, 2014)

On the subject of England vs Scottish football, I see Celtic have won the league (.... Again). Do Scottish folk (... That don't support Celtic) not find this a little boring year after year?

I'm far from the biggest football fan on here (... I support Stoke after all  ), but having 3, maybe 4 teams challenging for the league crown right up until the end of the season is far more exciting than watching the same team win 2-0 and 3-0 every week and have the league sown up before the end of season "run-in" has had chance to kick in. 

Even the other English leagues aren't sown up yet. The Championship, leagues 1 and 2 all have the potential for upset.

I, personally, would rather watch football like that than a league where you know who's going to win the league before the season has even started.


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## Hacker Khan (Mar 27, 2014)

Gareth said:



			On the subject of England vs Scottish football, I see Celtic have won the league (.... Again). Do Scottish folk (... That don't support Celtic) not find this a little boring year after year?

I'm far from the biggest football fan on here (... I support Stoke after all  ), but having 3, maybe 4 teams challenging for the league crown right up until the end of the season is far more exciting than watching the same team win 2-0 and 3-0 every week and have the league sown up before the end of season "run-in" has had chance to kick in. 

Even the other English leagues aren't sown up yet. The Championship, leagues 1 and 2 all have the potential for upset.

I, personally, would rather watch football like that than a league where you know who's going to win the league before the season has even started.
		
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Fair point as knowing who will win it is in my opinion not really proper sport, as there has to be an element of doubt in there to generate some excitement.

But then again I may be a bit strange as I play badminton with my mates.  And I would rather lose 21-19 in a good close exciting game then win 21-3 with little competition.  But some of the people I play with do not share that and it's a bit win at all costs.


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## Adi2Dassler (Mar 27, 2014)

Gareth said:



			On the subject of England vs Scottish football, I see Celtic have won the league (.... Again). *Do Scottish folk (... That don't support Celtic) not find this a little boring year after year?*

Click to expand...

Yes, please allow them to enter your leagues.


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## Slime (Mar 27, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/...-reports/scotland-u17s-3-belgium-u17s-3289457

There you go then.....*Scotland reach a European Qualifier*.
		
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And if England don't win the tournament, I genuinely hope that Scotland do.


*Slime*.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 27, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Yes, please allow them to enter your leagues.



Click to expand...

Would be nice, fantastic financial boost for EPL as well. Trouble is England would lose one of it's CL spots.
I see The German league was won with seven games remaining.


Now remind me ....who was the last English team to beat Barcelona home and away in the same season?


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## Slime (Mar 27, 2014)

CMAC said:



			I heard on the radio (football phone in I think) about *some horrendous scenes* at an under 17 game which is quite sad, dont think it was this one but they talked as if it happened within the last 2 weeks?
		
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Probqably from this French U17 goalkeeper!

[video=youtube_share;tazlx_uIUeY]http://youtu.be/tazlx_uIUeY[/video]




Doon frae Troon said:



			Would be nice, fantastic financial boost for EPL as well. *Trouble is England would lose one of it's CL spots.*
I see The German league was won with seven games remaining.


Now remind me ....who was the last English team to beat Barcelona home and away in the same season?
		
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I'm sorry, but how would that happen?


*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Would be nice, fantastic financial boost for EPL as well. Trouble is England would lose one of it's CL spots.
I see The German league was won with seven games remaining.


Now remind me ....who was the last English team to beat Barcelona home and away in the same season?
		
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Why would it be a fantastic financial boost for the EPL ? It would massively reduce the money in the SPL though 

Also why would the EPL lose a CL spot ? 

The German team also won the CL 

Did Celtic beating Barce win them anything ?


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## stevie_r (Mar 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why would it be a fantastic financial boost for the EPL ? It would massively reduce the money in the SPL though 

Also why would the EPL lose a CL spot ? 

The German team also won the CL 

Did Celtic beating Barce win them anything ?
		
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I think you will find Doon is on about Dundee Utd, it was fairly recent mind you, 1987


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why would it be a fantastic financial boost for the EPL ? It would massively reduce the money in the SPL though 

Also why would the EPL lose a CL spot ? 

The German team also won the CL 

Did Celtic beating Barce win them anything ?
		
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Celtic have a huge worldwide fan base and their TV audience would make a massive difference from the many dud teams like Fulham, Palace, Hull, QPR, Sunderland, WBA, Birmingham, Leeds, Forrest, Derby etc. etc etc.

After a couple of seasons Celtic would be an automatic top four EPL team.

Scottish fitba would be more competitive without Celtic [as has been proved without Rangers] and all of the clubs would thrive.


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## MegaSteve (Mar 27, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			After a couple of seasons Celtic would be an automatic top four EPL team.
		
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In the unlikely event of being admitted it would take three years minimum to achieve premier league status...


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## davidy233 (Mar 27, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/...-reports/scotland-u17s-3-belgium-u17s-3289457

There you go then.....Scotland reach a European Qualifier.
		
Click to expand...

I photographed the game last night - was very decent standard, Belgium's centre back Faes Wout of Anderlecht looks a real prospect - the paper cropped him out of this photo with my wee mate Craig Wighton (who will be a real star) though


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## stevie_r (Mar 27, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Celtic have a huge worldwide fan base and their TV audience would make a massive difference from the many dud teams like Fulham, Palace, Hull, QPR, Sunderland, WBA, Birmingham, Leeds, Forrest, Derby etc. etc etc.

After a couple of seasons Celtic would be an automatic top four EPL team.

Scottish fitba would be more competitive without Celtic [as has been proved without Rangers] and all of the clubs would thrive.
		
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Google sky audience figures for Celtic games - they aren't great

Top 4 - no they wouldn't necessarily.

How can you state that Scottish football has been more competitive without Rangers being in the top flight? Sorry but that is utter tosh.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Celtic have a huge worldwide fan base and their TV audience would make a massive difference from the many dud teams like Fulham, Palace, Hull, QPR, Sunderland, WBA, Birmingham, Leeds, Forrest, Derby etc. etc etc.
		
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But that wouldn't give a financial boost to the EPL - the TV deals wouldn't increase just because Celtic would arrive




			After a couple of seasons Celtic would be an automatic top four EPL team.
		
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Really ? Sorry but why would they be ? There are bigger teams than Celtic that aren't automatic top four. They would challenge for Top 4 but not automatically getting there 




			Scottish fitba would be more competitive without Celtic [as has been proved without Rangers] and all of the clubs would thrive.
		
Click to expand...

Competitive between the clubs - yes. Outside the SPL - No 

So why would the EPL lose a CL spot ?


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## One Planer (Mar 27, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			After a couple of seasons Celtic would be an automatic top four EPL team.
		
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I'll take that bet!

The Premiership used to have a set top 4 (ManU, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea). Manchester City now being cash rich, have made that top 4 competitive. There are also other teams such as Tottenham and Everton pushing on and consistently around that mark.

Without knowing Celtics finances, I doubt they would be able to compete financially for the better players needed to crack that top 4-5 places.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 27, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			No doubt it's been terrific.If you could remove the insane level of coverage in the media,over egged hype and sterility I'd enjoy it a whole lot more, but I guess everyone thinks that.
		
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There I go again, agreeing with Adi. I have enjoyed watching a number of games this season but I really cannot be doing with all the hype that surrounds EPL.

Mind you I do struggle to see why BBC covers SPL as if it is the second most important in the UK. Just look at the quality of players and the attendances.

Adam Rooney currently starring for Aberdeen yet could not hack it at Birmingham, Swindon or Oldham.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 27, 2014)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc-hPlI0Rh0

Thought Phil might like to see this one again!


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc-hPlI0Rh0

Thought Phil might like to see this one again!
		
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Which team qualified again ?


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Which team qualified again ?
		
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According to your manager you were might relieved to get through the two ties.
He seems to be quite sensible.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			According to your manager you were might relieved to get through the two ties.
He seems to be quite sensible.
		
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Yet we still won 

Not sure what point you are trying portray going on about a game from past seasons.


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## chris661 (Mar 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not sure what point you are trying portray going on about a game from past seasons.
		
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Irony? Much? :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Irony? Much? :rofl:
		
Click to expand...


Excuse me


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yet we still won 

Not sure what point you are trying portray going on about a game from past seasons.
		
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Just pointing out that the standards of the two leagues may not be as big as some down south folk tend to believe.


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## stevie_r (Mar 27, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Just pointing out that the standards of the two leagues may not be as big as some down south folk tend to believe.
		
Click to expand...

It is, there's a massive gap, huge in fact; pulling out clips like that does absolutely nothing to prove otherwise, every dog occasionally has its day.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Just pointing out that the standards of the two leagues may not be as big as some down south folk tend to believe.
		
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Sorry but I don't think that can be judged on by purely one game against a team with a new manager etc

Take Celtic out of the league and the rest of the teams I believe would be in the championship at best with maybe some in Lge 1


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 27, 2014)

So according to DfT's logic if, as sometimes happens, a team from League 1 or even 2 turns over a team from EPL this would mean that there is not much difference between the two.

Sorry but to attempt to establish the relative strengths of Leagues by basing it upon the results of "one off" Cup games is and always has been a mistake.

After all, in golf, Gary Wolstenholme once beat Tiger Woods but you would surely not claim that the former is even close to the World's No: !.


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## chris661 (Mar 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Excuse me 

Click to expand...

What do you need excused for?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2014)

chris661 said:



			What do you need excused for?
		
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Was more an expression of confusion at your comment 

Struggling to see the irony in what I said


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 27, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			So according to DfT's logic if, as sometimes happens, a team from League 1 or even 2 turns over a team from EPL this would mean that there is not much difference between the two. !.
		
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The game I highlighted was a Europa Cup game over two legs. Both games were very close with Liverpool slightly fortunate to go through. Nothing like a one off cup game.

BTW the following season Hearts were the only team in the entire season to take a point home from White Hart Lane. That's something 19 EPL teams and a few Europa cup teams failed to do.








Mind you we got gubbed 6-0 at Tynecastle!!


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## Slime (Mar 27, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Celtic have a huge worldwide fan base and their TV audience would make a massive difference from the many dud teams like Fulham, Palace, Hull, QPR, Sunderland, WBA, Birmingham, Leeds, Forrest, Derby etc. etc etc.

*After a couple of seasons Celtic would be an automatic top four EPL team.*

Scottish fitba would be more competitive without Celtic [as has been proved without Rangers] and all of the clubs would thrive.
		
Click to expand...

After a couple of seasons they are more likely to be a good Championship side rather than a top four EPL side.


*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The game I highlighted was a Europa Cup game over two legs. Both games were very close with Liverpool slightly fortunate to go through. Nothing like a one off cup game.

BTW the following season Hearts were the only team in the entire season to take a point home from White Hart Lane. That's something 19 EPL teams and a few Europa cup teams failed to do.








Mind you we got gubbed 6-0 at Tynecastle!!
		
Click to expand...

Over the two legs hearts failed to win either the home or away leg or the overall tie.

All that matter in the tie was to get through to the next round.

How many teams from the SPL do you think would compete in the EPL ( bar Celtic ) 

The gulf in standard is massive 

The EPL is alongside the Liga and Bundasliga for standard of football 

The SPL is a whole lifetime away from that standard IMO of course


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## Adi2Dassler (Mar 27, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Mind you I do struggle to see why BBC covers SPL as if it is the second most important in the UK. Just look at the quality of players and the attendances.

Adam Rooney currently starring for Aberdeen yet could not hack it at Birmingham, Swindon or Oldham.
		
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I'd disagree that they do.The Championship gets very good coverage, and rightly so, it's probably the best league in The UK, t's everything the EPL should want to be.

Rooney is very good imo



Liverpoolphil said:



			Take Celtic out of the league and the rest of the teams I believe would be in the championship at best with maybe some in Lge 1
		
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League 1.But take into consideration the size of our nation compared to yours, the general state of fitness in Scotland, the money in the championship etc thru ownership/TV etc and it's realistic to say League 1.Aberdeen currently might be able to compete in Championship to avoid relegation, but thats about it.



Doon frae Troon said:



			Mind you we got gubbed 6-0 at Tynecastle!!
		
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I've never tippled you were a jambo.I'm bitterly disappointed in you.


An overall observation...I think most folk in England don't understand the size of Celtc (and Rangers) Size of club only Man Utd and Liverpool are bigger.Given access to the EPL they'd help renegotiate bigger TV deals and whilst they'd take a wee while to establish, within 10 years Celtc would be challenging for top 4 at least....they'd be ripe for take over from billionaires and they'd fill stadiums only utd/liverpool currently do...Sunderland/Stoke etc.

So please, let them in.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2014)

Why is the championship the "best" league in the uk ?

And what do you mean by "best"


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 27, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			I've never tippled you were a jambo.I'm bitterly disappointed in you.

Click to expand...

We are doing OK
Â£500m less debt than Man U and Liverpool and in a better place than Bolton and Leeds
Shortly to be taken over by the fans and playing in the same league as Rangers next year.
Looking good.

I would agree that the Championship is the best league, more excitement and proper fitba.
Nane o this tippy tappy stuff and falling down like wee lassies that you get in the EPL, that's really boring.


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## stevie_r (Mar 27, 2014)

Oh dear, the old guff that Celtic would be great for the EPL because they would fill out all the stadia every other week with their away support.  Utter cobblers.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			We are doing OK
Â£500m less debt than Man U and Liverpool and in a better place than Bolton and Leeds
Shortly to be taken over by the fans and playing in the same league as Rangers next year.
Looking good.

I would agree that the Championship is the best league, more excitement and proper fitba.
Nane o this tippy tappy stuff and falling down like wee lassies that you get in the EPL, that's really boring.
		
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Proper football ? 

Tippy tappy ?! That's called highly skillful possession football and it's played by some of the best clubs in the game.

Or do you prefer the West Ham lump it and watch oafs kicking lumps out of each other with the skill level of a snail ?


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## NWJocko (Mar 27, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			An overall observation...I think most folk in England don't understand the size of Celtc (and Rangers) Size of club only Man Utd and Liverpool are bigger.Given access to the EPL they'd help renegotiate bigger TV deals and whilst they'd take a wee while to establish, within 10 years Celtc would be challenging for top 4 at least....they'd be ripe for take over from billionaires and they'd fill stadiums only utd/liverpool currently do...Sunderland/Stoke etc.

So please, let them in.
		
Click to expand...

Good point, it really is underestimated down here just how big Cektic and Rangers are. Agree with you in terms of their prospects if they ever got into the PL aswell, maybe even quicker than 10 years....


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 27, 2014)

Tippy tappy is so boring why don't they just get on with it.
Is it because they are feart or don't have the skill levels.

BTW We don't give penalties for broken nails up here


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Tippy tappy is so boring why don't they just get on with it.
Is it because they are feart or don't have the skill levels.

BTW We don't give penalties for broken nails up here
		
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Was it boring when Brazil were doing it back in the 50's ?

If you think that Barcelona or Spain don't have the skill levels then I'm afraid your idea of football is a little different.


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## stevie_r (Mar 27, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Tippy tappy is so boring why don't they just get on with it.
Is it because they are feart or don't have the skill levels.

BTW We don't give penalties for broken nails up here
		
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The entertainment level in the EPL this year has been excellent, the SPL has not.  Does your nurse know you are on the internet unsupervised?


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## Adi2Dassler (Mar 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why is the championship the "best" league in the uk ?

And what do you mean by "best"
		
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It's competitive, various winners,realistic aspirations and coverage,good standard,the play offs are the best thing in football imo too.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			It's competitive, various winners,realistic aspirations and coverage,good standard,the play offs are the best thing in football imo too.
		
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Well off course it has various winners - the winners go into a different league 

Every league is competitive - the EPL is with currently 3 going for the title - appears Leicester have the champ sown up 

What exactly are aspirations of a league ? The coverage is normally two games a weekend plus one midweek - the prem normally has one more. 

The standard is good - not as good as the prem obviously


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Was it boring when Brazil were doing it back in the 50's ?

If you think that Barcelona or Spain don't have the skill levels then I'm afraid your idea of football is a little different.
		
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In the 1950's Brazil played towards the opponents goal.

I blame it all on Ray Wilkins and Barry Ferguson, they started this passing towards your own goal trend.
Barca and Spain are pretty boring to watch, I tend to fall asleep when they play.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			In the 1950's Brazil played towards the opponents goal.

I blame it all on Ray Wilkins and Barry Ferguson, they started this passing towards your own goal trend.
Barca and Spain are pretty boring to watch, I tend to fall asleep when they play.
		
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Check out how many goals Barce and Spain score - look at the scoring record of Messi ( or is he boring ) 

Possession of the football is key - it appears you don't appreciate it and would you prefer they just hoofed it up ?


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 27, 2014)

No I like skillful direct football.

Best British team I have watched live would be a great example of that. Bobby Robson's late 1970's Ipswich team.
Burley, Mills, Beatie, Butcher, Osman, Murhen, Thijssen Wymark, Wark etc.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			No I like skillful direct football.

Best British team I have watched live would be a great example of that. Bobby Robson's late 1970's Ipswich team.
Burley, Mills, Beatie, Butcher, Osman, Murhen, Thijssen Wymark, Wark etc.
		
Click to expand...

Skillful direct football - hoof up field to a cf then it is.


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## Adi2Dassler (Mar 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well off course it has various winners - the winners go into a different league 

Every league is competitive - the EPL is with currently 3 going for the title - appears Leicester have the champ sown up 

What exactly are aspirations of a league ? The coverage is normally two games a weekend plus one midweek - the prem normally has one more. 

The standard is good - not as good as the prem obviously
		
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The EPL has 2 live Saturday games, upto 3 live Sunday games and a monday game too, fixtures permitting.And by aspirations it's realisitc about itself, and by that i mean it's not tagged as the bets league in the world when its not.

The EPL is normally a duopoly very similar to The SPL...this year is different, but one swallow doesn't make it Spring.I seriously doubt your own team will win the league this year,and I predict they'll be further away this year and so on until they build a bigger ground...Chelsea ground is roughly the same size but they charge premium London prices.

Sky have done very well telling folk the league is the best in the world...a case of telling folk something often enough becoming fact..its the fastest but certanly not the best.

I'm sure you'll disagree as you have a vested interest, but I can see the faults in Scottish football, ca't you see any in The EPL?


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Skillful direct football - hoof up field to a cf then it is.
		
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Is that not a bit of an insult to one of England's greatest teams.
I take it you did not see them. Too busy watching Crazy Horse jump on players backs?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2014)

Yes I can see faults in the EPL - money is the main one - money brought in by oil billionaires 

The EPL is one of the best leagues in the world - it's currently the biggest in terms of audience around the world. 

I wouldn't discount ourselves out of the league and I'm not sure why you think we will be further away next season ? 

The EPL has had 4 different winners in ten years - the La Liga has had 2 , Bundasliga is 3 I believe , Italy is 3 , Scotland is 2.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 27, 2014)

Again agree with Adi. 

According to Sky football didn't exist in England until 1992 and the advent of the Premiership, as it then was.  Just because Jim White tells us it is the best league in the world does not make it true.

On the point of Celtic & Loan Rangers joining the EPL, it ain't gonna be. Why not?

Because there is no demand for it this side of the border.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Is that not a bit of an insult to one of England's greatest teams.
I take it you did not see them. Too busy watching Crazy Horse jump on players backs?
		
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I was 9 and watching another British team win the European Cup on a regular occasions 

If you really believe Ipswich are one of England's Greatest teams then that's an insult to a lot of teams who actually won multiple top trophies. 

Think you need to drag yourself into the modern era.


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## ger147 (Mar 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes I can see faults in the EPL - money is the main one - money brought in by oil billionaires 

The EPL is one of the best leagues in the world - it's currently the biggest in terms of audience around the world. 

I wouldn't discount ourselves out of the league and I'm not sure why you think we will be further away next season ? 

The EPL has had 4 different winners in ten years - the La Liga has had 2 , Bundasliga is 3 I believe , Italy is 3 , Scotland is 2.
		
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Bundesliga is 4 as well.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2014)

ger147 said:



			Bundesliga is 4 as well.
		
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Who did I miss ? Bayern , Wolfsburg and Dortmund ? Bayer ?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 27, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Is that not a bit of an insult to one of England's greatest teams.
I take it you did not see them. Too busy watching Crazy Horse jump on players backs?
		
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No he was too busy watching the ball being lumped up to Toshack for him to nod it down for that most skilful of players, Keegan.


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## ger147 (Mar 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who did I miss ? Bayern , Wolfsburg and Dortmund ? Bayer ?
		
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Stuttgart


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2014)

ger147 said:



			Stutgart
		
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Off course 

Think it's even 5 if you include 04 actually because Weder won then


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## ger147 (Mar 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Off course 

Think it's even 5 if you include 04 actually because Weder won then
		
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If you include 04 then La Liga goes to 3.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			No he was too busy watching the ball being lumped up to Toshack for him to nod it down for that most skilful of players, Keegan.
		
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Too young 

Preffered the Kenny/Rush years followed by IMO prob the greatest British team ever the Barnes/Beardsley years


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## stevie_r (Mar 27, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Is that not a bit of an insult to one of England's greatest teams.
I take it you did not see them. Too busy watching Crazy Horse jump on players backs?
		
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Doon, I'm sorry but someone has to break this news to you, it is no long the 1970s.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2014)

ger147 said:



			If you include 04 then La Liga goes to 3.
		
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The great Rafa Valencia team :thup:


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Too young 

Preffered the Kenny/Rush years followed by IMO prob the greatest British team ever the Barnes/Beardsley years
		
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As an outsider I would have to disagree and go for Dalgleish & Rush, personally felt that Beardsley was rather overrated as his consistency was questionable. Barnes was great for club but, Rio '84 aside, was a disappointment for England.


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## Adi2Dassler (Mar 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I wouldn't discount ourselves out of the league and I'm not sure why you think we will be further away next season ?
		
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Because other teams will spend money your team can't.Arsenal will spunk loads, United even more City might not but they're only a centre back away from being stupidly awesome and Chelsea will but a centre forward.You could lose Suarez and Gerrard ( who I think is magnificent) will be a year older.

This is your one chance and I personally think City will win it.

All this is said from a truly neutral position btw.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			As an outsider I would have to disagree and go for Dalgleish & Rush, personally felt that Beardsley was rather overrated as his consistency was questionable. Barnes was great for club but, Rio '84 aside, was a disappointment for England.
		
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Getting rid of Beardo was Souness biggest mistake - for us he was truly outstanding week in week out - did all the quiet stuff and let Barnes take the limelight. He was amazing for us.

Barnes was poor for England - just never worked out for him on the international scene - one of our best ever players

We have been lucky to have a few to chose from


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Because other teams will spend money your team can't.Arsenal will spunk loads, United even more City might not but they're only a centre back away from being stupidly awesome and Chelsea will but a centre forward.You could lose Suarez and Gerrard ( who I think is magnificent) will be a year older.

This is your one chance and I personally think City will win it.

All this is said from a truly neutral position btw.
		
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We could also spend money - we aren't skint 

They all spent money last summer but we are still there - it will be bloody tough , no doubt about that but with some clever signings think we could carry on challenging them 

CL will gives us a great deal more money also


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 27, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			Doon, I'm sorry but someone has to break this news to you, it is no long the 1970s.
		
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Steady on.......Philly wiz going back to the 1950's

John Toshack....... now there was  a good example of a direct CF.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 28, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			Doon, I'm sorry but someone has to break this news to you, it is no long the 1970s.
		
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Isn't it? - blimey - what has happened?  Is Val still on Blue Peter?


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 28, 2014)

I had quite a serious row with Val over Blue Peter encouraging young children to earn some money by searching for balls on their local golf course. They did not post a retraction.


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## Dodger (Mar 29, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			Oh dear, the old guff that Celtic would be great for the EPL because they would fill out all the stadia every other week with their away support.  Utter cobblers.
		
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Spot the bitter man who's club died.

It's the truth and I know it hurts you all which is just so pleasing.


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## stevie_r (Mar 29, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Spot the bitter man who's club died.

It's the truth and I know it hurts you all which is just so pleasing.

Click to expand...

Wolves died? When did this happen? oo:

Fact is you wouldn't. A big following to the odd per season friendly in England is a fun jolly, cost and distance would preclude the Celtic support doing it every week.  You would get the 3000 tickets you have to receive and not much more.  Next point, how well do you think the Republican song book would go down in cities bombed by the IRA?


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 29, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			Wolves died? When did this happen? oo:

Fact is you wouldn't. A big following to the odd per season friendly in England is a fun jolly, cost and distance would preclude the Celtic support doing it every week.  You would get the 3000 tickets you have to receive and not much more.  Next point, how well do you think the Republican song book would go down in cities bombed by the IRA?
		
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Would that be the Celtic support who travel from Ireland to Parkhead every second week.

You should see the convoys traveling up the A77, quite impressive.


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## Dodger (Mar 29, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			Wolves died? When did this happen? oo:

Fact is you wouldn't. A big following to the odd per season friendly in England is a fun jolly, cost and distance would preclude the Celtic support doing it every week.  You would get the 3000 tickets you have to receive and not much more.  Next point, how well do you think the Republican song book would go down in cities bombed by the IRA?
		
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Sorry,maybe I should just quantify you as a man with a dislike to anything Celtic or Catholic.

My mistake,sincere apologies.

And if you think our fans would not travel that sums up what you actually know about Celtic Football Club and its supporters.


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 29, 2014)

Can we cut out any sectarian references please

this thread is about the differences between Scottish & English football, not the differences within Scottish football, so can we get back on track please

Thank you


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## stevie_r (Mar 29, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Sorry,maybe I should just quantify you as a man with a dislike to anything Celtic or Catholic.

My mistake,sincere apologies.

And if you think our fans would not travel that sums up what you actually know about Celtic Football Club and its supporters.
		
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Bemused by the fact that you feel I have anything against catholics


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 29, 2014)

Just noticed that one of my 'dud' teams has beaten the League leaders.
Well done Palace.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 30, 2014)

For football fans who do not like tippy tappy fitba....the Edinburgh derby is on BT sport at 12 noon.
Remember it is also Mothers day as well though!


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## Slime (Mar 30, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			For football fans who do not like fitba....the Edinburgh derby is on BT sport at 12 noon.
Remember it is also Mothers day as well though!
		
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Fixed that for you ............................ .


*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 30, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			For football fans who do not like tippy tappy fitba....the Edinburgh derby is on BT sport at 12 noon.
Remember it is also Mothers day as well though!
		
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Think I can see some paint drying from where I am sitting :thup:


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 30, 2014)

Fine win for the Jambos, even when we are broke and with a team full of teenagers we still manage to beat the Hibees three times this season.
Some good positive proper mens fitba football played. No boring fearty tippy tappy stuff


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 30, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Fine win for the Jambos, even when we are broke and with a team full of teenagers we still manage to beat the Hibees three times this season.
*Some good positive proper mens fitba football played. *No boring fearty tippy tappy stuff
		
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Which equals poor standard :thup:


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Which equals poor standard :thup:
		
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Jeez Phil you really do need to change that record.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 30, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Jeez Phil you really do need to change that record.
		
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Says the person constantly going on about "proper men's fitba" and "tippy tappy"


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## Dodger (Mar 30, 2014)

Watched the 2st half of Spurs game and jeesus they are one poor team.

Says everything about the strength of that league that they sit 6th.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 30, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Watched the 2st half of Spurs game and jeesus they are one poor team.

Says everything about the strength of that league that they sit 6th.
		
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True but I would still back them over a season  against the 6th placed team in the SPL, or the 5th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, or 1st.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 30, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Watched the 2st half of Spurs game and jeesus they are one poor team.

Says everything about the strength of that league that they sit 6th.
		
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Based on one half of football against a team in top form :smirk:

They would still cruise to the SPL


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## Dodger (Mar 30, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			True but I would still back them over a season  against the 6th placed team in the SPL, or the 5th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, or 1st.
		
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It wasn't a us v you post simply saying that Spurs are rank but are 6th in the league. Outside the current top 5 the rest are pretty dire.

None of them would do anything in Europe against comparative sides from other nations yet this is supposed to be the 'best league in the world'.

My arse. Great product but the league is full of some dreadful sides in reality.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 30, 2014)

Dodger said:



			It wasn't a us v you post simply saying that Spurs are rank but are 6th in the league. Outside the current top 5 the rest are pretty dire.

None of them would do anything in Europe against comparative sides from other nations yet this is supposed to be the 'best league in the world'.

My arse. Great product but the league is full of some dreadful sides in reality.
		
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Yet you watch Southampton with a very good performance yesterday and have produced a number of them this year.

Spurs for example would be on par would the team in 6th in Spain , Germany and Italy and would be the same all the way down the league.


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## Dodger (Mar 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yet you watch *Southampton* with a very good performance yesterday and have produced a number of them this year.

Spurs for example would be on par would the team in 6th in Spain , Germany and Italy and would be the same all the way down the league.
		
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Aye, against that footballing powerhouse that is Newcastle. What was I saying about dreadful teams?:smirk:


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 30, 2014)

Dodger said:



			It wasn't a us v you post simply saying that Spurs are rank but are 6th in the league. Outside the current top 5 the rest are pretty dire.

None of them would do anything in Europe against comparative sides from other nations yet this is supposed to be the 'best league in the world'.

My arse. Great product but the league is full of some dreadful sides in reality.
		
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Agree, but no different to any other league in the world, you are always going to have a small number of top teams with some also rans and those who perpetually struggle year in year out.

the difference here is that there are still 4 teams in with a chance of winning the title, up in Scotland , its all over as there is no credible opposition to rival Celtic so its a 1 horse race, the SPL is a non event until you get come competition back.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 30, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Aye, against that footballing powerhouse that is Newcastle. What was I saying about dreadful teams?:smirk:
		
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Which footballing powerhouses are below 6th in the other leagues ?

Have a look at the various tables and guess which 6th team is closer to the top in all the leagues ?

BTW the German league is done and dusted , the Italy league is done and dusted


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 30, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Agree, but no different to any other league in the world, you are always going to have a small number of top teams with some also rans and those who perpetually struggle year in year out.

the difference here is that there are still 4 teams in with a chance of winning the title, up in Scotland , its all over as there is no credible opposition to rival Celtic so its a 1 horse race, the SPL is a non event until you get come competition back.
		
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Now one would disagree with that summary Phil, but is that not what this thread is all about.
A couple of years ago two run of the mill Scottish central defenders completely blotted out the Liverpool attack which included Suarez in a Europa cup game. Yet we have people on here telling us that Scottish football is totally rubbish.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 30, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Aye, against that footballing powerhouse that is Newcastle. What was I saying about dreadful teams?:smirk:
		
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Agree with you but I would say that the chances of one of the relegation candidates defeating one of the top teams is greater in the EPL compared with the other major leagues in Europe.

This, at least, adds to the unpredictability and, thus, the entertainment value.


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## Dodger (Mar 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Which footballing powerhouses are below 6th in the other leagues ?
		
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You struggle to find anything poor about that league don't you? Look at how the teams from the league have done in the Uefa/Europa Cup or whatever that dire tournament that they wrecked is now called.....not well bar Chelsea who were parachuted in from CL.

I am sure you can agree that the teams from 5th down really are not as fantastic as Sky make out tho?

And Newcastle are up there with as bad as it gets at the moment.

Fragger, no-one is arguing about the standard of the SPFL. To be honest it surprises me how decent we tend to do when it comes to Europe when you consider the crap we play against week in week out and the funding however as poor as people tend to think we are I still think we would finish anywhere from 8th to 5th if we were parachuted into the 'best league in the world' next season. The rest of the SPFL teams however would go straight down with record points totals.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 30, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Now one would disagree with that summary Phil, but is that not what this thread is all about.
A couple of years ago two run of the mill Scottish central defenders completely blotted out the Liverpool attack which included Suarez in a Europa cup game. Yet we have people on here telling us that Scottish football is totally rubbish.
		
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You blotted out a Liverpool in one game - a game we still won , a game early in a season with a new manager - you can't compare based on one game 

Rubin Kazan once stopped Messi scoring - as did a club called Cluzj ( I think it was )

Does that suddenly make Romania Football as good as the Spanish league ? Or the Ukrainian League as good as the Spanish League 

Celtic beat Barce once - is a Scottish Football as good as the Spanish ?

Your National team hasn't qualified for a tournament for decades now ( was it 98 the last one ) , you league is a procession for one team , the rest of the teams would struggle in the championship. 

Unless you think they would survive in the Prem ?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 30, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Now one would disagree with that summary Phil, but is that not what this thread is all about.
A couple of years ago two run of the mill Scottish central defenders completely blotted out the Liverpool attack which included Suarez in *a Europa cup game.* Yet we have people on here telling us that Scottish football is totally rubbish.
		
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You keep referring to one off performances but there will always be "Cup upsets". 

They, in isolation, say nothing about relative strengths of leagues.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 30, 2014)

Dodger said:



			You struggle to find anything poor about that league don't you? Look at how the teams from the league have done in the Uefa/Europa Cup or whatever that dire tournament that they wrecked is now called.....not well bar Chelsea who were parachuted in from CL.

I am sure you can agree that the teams from 5th down really are not as fantastic as Sky make out tho?

And Newcastle are up there with as bad as it gets at the moment.

Fragger, no-one is arguing about the standard of the SPFL. To be honest it surprises me how decent we tend to do when it comes to Europe when you consider the crap we play against week in week out and the funding however as poor as people tend to think we are I still think we would finish anywhere from 8th to 5th if we were parachuted into the 'best league in the world' next season. The rest of the SPFL teams however would go straight down with record points totals.
		
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When did Sky make those teams out to be "fantastic" ?

Teams from England that go into Europa are normally the national cup winners - Swansea and Wigan plus who came 5th. We have won it , had teams get to the latter stages and finals.

The Prem is one of the most exciting leagues in club football, it's full of talented players with some great teams and it's a battle from the day it starts to the day it finishes - it has quality games in it. It's the most watch league in the world - other countries pay millions to watch it because of the players in it and the excitement. 

The Prem league is great to watch IMO and it appears it's an opinion shared by many.


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 30, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Fragger, no-one is arguing about the standard of the SPFL. To be honest it surprises me how decent we tend to do when it comes to Europe when you consider the crap we play against week in week out and the funding however as poor as people tend to think we are I still think we would finish anywhere from 8th to 5th if we were parachuted into the 'best league in the world' next season. The rest of the SPFL teams however would go straight down with record points totals.
		
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I reckon thats a pretty fair assessment id put Celtic at about the same level as Spurs or Everton if they had the same level of funding that those teams have from TV rights etc

Dont see them winning, but they would certainly hold their own, with regard to the other SPl teams, yes I agree most would struggle,  Aberdeen, Motherwell and Dundee would be mid table at best, the rest would give the championship a run.

Not sure if the EPl is the best in the world, but it is certainly one of the best, 

have to say, it would be good to see Scotland qualify for a major tournament so my fingers are crossed for the Euros in 2 years time


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## Dodger (Mar 30, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			I reckon thats a pretty fair assessment id put Celtic at about the same level as Spurs or Everton if they had the same level of funding that those teams have from TV rights etc

Dont see them winning, but they would certainly hold their own, with regard to the other SPl teams, yes I agree most would struggle,  Aberdeen, Motherwell and Dundee would be mid table at best, the rest would give the championship a run.

Not sure if the EPl is the best in the world, but it is certainly one of the best, 

have to say, it would be good to see Scotland qualify for a major tournament so my fingers are crossed for the Euros in 2 years time
		
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Phil with all due respect you have a misunderstanding of the SPFL.

Those sides would be nowhere near mid table,they would go down quicker than the Titanic and it's Dundee United by the way.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You blotted out a Liverpool in one game - a game we still won , a game early in a season with a new manager - you can't compare based on one game 

Rubin Kazan once stopped Messi scoring - as did a club called Cluzj ( I think it was )

Does that suddenly make Romania Football as good as the Spanish league ? Or the Ukrainian League as good as the Spanish League 

Celtic beat Barce once - is a Scottish Football as good as the Spanish ?

Your National team hasn't qualified for a tournament for decades now ( was it 98 the last one ) , you league is a procession for one team , the rest of the teams would struggle in the championship. 

Unless you think they would survive in the Prem ?
		
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Good God it is like wading through treacle.

It was a TWO off game for Hearts with a new manager at the beginning of the season, or does that not count.

NO ONE is disagreeing that the EPL is better than the SPL.
What some are saying it is not as big as the English press/fans think it is.
You only have to look past the top six and teams that a couple of years ago were in the EPL.
Teams like Wolves, Birmingham, Watford, Middlesborough ETC ETC


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 30, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Good God it is like wading through treacle.

It was a one off game for Hearts with a new manager at the beginning of the season, or does that not count.

NO ONE is disagreeing that the EPL is better than the SPL.
What some are saying it is not as big as the English press/fans think it is.
You only have to look past the top six and teams that a couple of years ago were in the EPL.
Teams like Wolves, Birmingham, Watford, Middlesborough ETC ETC
		
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What about Wolves etc ? Think Boro actually got to the UEFA cup final recently 

Are you saying that all the other leagues in Europe are littered with quality teams from top to bottom ?!


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 30, 2014)

1] Like Rangers then.

2] Whatever makes you think that, I thought we were talking about the 'best league in the world'.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 30, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			1] Like Rangers then.

2] Whatever makes you think that, I thought we were talking about the 'best league in the world'.
		
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But no one has suggested Rangers are a dire club - Celtic also got to a final but there are the top two in Scotland - Boro and Fulham are normally bottom half teams yet have reached European Finals.

And people will think the Prem is the Best League in the World - all depends on what you mean by "Best" 

For me for excitement its unrivalled - quality throughout from top to bottom compared to the other leagues and its on par with La Liga. Its top teams on up with the best in club football. So what makes other leagues better than the prem ?


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 30, 2014)

Phil I know your experience of Scottish Fitba is a bit vague. Celtic actually got to 3 European finals and a further 4 semi finals.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 30, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Phil I know your experience of Scottish Fitba is a bit vague. Celtic actually got to 3 European finals and a further 4 semi finals.
		
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We are talking recent times here not back in the 50's and 60's.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			We are talking recent times here not back in the 50's and 60's.
		
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You crack me up.....  got an excuse for everything.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 30, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			You crack me up.....  got an excuse for everything.
		
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We are talking about how Sky are currently potraying the Prem as the best league at the moment and you are dribbling on about finals in the 50's and 60's

So currently right now tell me why the Prem isnt the best league at the moment


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 30, 2014)

Sky.........have I missed something...........when did that come into it?
I thought the thread was Scottish v English football.


cue.












Next excuse.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 30, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Sky.........have I missed something...........when did that come into it?
I thought the thread was Scottish v English football.


cue.












Next excuse.
		
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Dodger said:



			I am sure you can agree that the teams from 5th down really are not as fantastic as *Sky* make out tho?
		
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Doon frae Troon said:



			.
What some are saying it is not as big as the English *press*/fans think it is.
		
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Are Sky not press now


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are Sky not press now
		
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No.......press is written.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 30, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			No.......press is written.
		
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And Sky has press reporters as well 

Have a good evening


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## Dodger (Mar 30, 2014)

1950's?

Even Liverpool don't live that far in the past.

Sure the big cup did not start til mid 50's and it took about 10-12 years to get a winner from outside 3 cities.....


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## Foxholer (Mar 30, 2014)

Dodger said:



			... and it's Dundee *United* by the way.
		
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Surely a misnomer for any Scottish team - or other enitiy for that matter!


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 10, 2014)

Hope you Southerners are looking over your shoulders.
The Scottish team is now only 11 places below you and catching up fast!


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## Rumpokid (Apr 10, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Hope you Southerners are looking over your shoulders.
The Scottish team is now only 11 places below you and catching up fast!
		
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Ha ha ha, ho ho.. some achievement that,Bit like Ecosse '78'..At least you are second in the curling world..


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 10, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Hope you Southerners are looking over your shoulders.
The Scottish team is now only 11 places below you and catching up fast!
		
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Actually I think its great to see. Testament to the progress Strachan is making and the decent run of results the Scots are getting. As usual, we're stagnating


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## Rumpokid (Apr 10, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Actually I think its great to see. Testament to the progress Strachan is making and the decent run of results the Scots are getting. As usual, we're stagnating
		
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Save judgement til business end starts..i.e. Qualifiers


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## CMAC (Apr 10, 2014)

Foxholer said:



*Surely a misnomer* for any Scottish team - or other *enitiy *for that matter!
		
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or misspelling :ears:


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 10, 2014)

I found it hard to believe that Scotland were 13th in the world only a few years ago.

Quite happy with 22nd feels about right,


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## Slime (Apr 11, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I found it hard to believe that Scotland were 13th in the world only a few years ago.

Quite happy with 22nd feels about right,
		
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I find it hard to beleive that Scotland were 22nd a few days ago!


*Slime*.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 11, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I found it hard to believe that Scotland were 13th in the world only a few years ago.

Quite happy with 22nd feels about right,
		
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Yes - that was a bit amazing - I think England were 12th when we got to 13 - in fact did we very briefly head in England in the rankings around then?   

22nd? - yes - I can fairly easily think of 21 teams who I would not be comfortable about us beating. Note the positive slant to that - I could have said 21 teams that we'd probably lose to   But I'm feeling a bit 'glass is half full' about Scotland at the moment.  More so than about our rugby team I'm afraid.


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 11, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Yes - that was a bit amazing - I think England were 12th when we got to 13 - in fact did we very briefly head in England in the rankings around then?   

22nd? - yes - I can fairly easily think of 21 teams who I would not be comfortable about us beating. Note the positive slant to that - I could have said 21 teams that we'd probably lose to   But I'm feeling a bit 'glass is half full' about Scotland at the moment.  More so than about our rugby team I'm afraid.
		
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Well I can add the pessimistic Scot in the equation.....

I'm sure we'll have plummeted down the rankings again by the time they need to seed the pots for the next qualifying campaign..... :mmm:


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2014)

The rankings are never really taken seriously - I remember two years ago they had England higher than Germany !


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 11, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			is half full' about Scotland at the moment.  More so than about our rugby team I'm afraid.
		
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I keep thinking Scotland punch above their weight at rugby but on the Scotland Debate site I keep hearing that Scotland is the same size as the United States of All Blacks


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I keep thinking Scotland punch above their weight at rugby but on the Scotland Debate site I keep hearing that Scotland is the same size as the United States of All Blacks
		
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In terms of population I think you are just higher than them by the odd million


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 11, 2014)

I learned something new today

Liverpool have not won the English Premier League.


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## Slime (Apr 11, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I learned something new today

Liverpool have not won the English Premier League.
		
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :thup:


*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I learned something new today

Liverpool have not won the English Premier League.
		
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The English Premier League is the top league in England - Liverpool have won the top league in England 18 times - a name change doesn't change that fact


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## chris661 (Apr 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The English Premier League is the top league in England - Liverpool have won the top league in England 18 times - a name change doesn't change that fact
		
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:rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2014)

chris661 said:



			:rofl:
		
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:thup:

Well I suppose if competitions change when the name changes Celtic have never won the CL :thup:


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## chris661 (Apr 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			:thup:

Well I suppose if competitions change when the name changes Celtic have never won the CL :thup:
		
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Quote correct they haven't, they won the previous incarnation when it was called the European cup. Although it was your predictability I was laughing at.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Quote correct they haven't. Although it was your predictability I was laughing at.
		
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Really ?


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## c1973 (Apr 11, 2014)

Pretty obvious the top division in England has pretty much always been ahead of the Scottish one, but yet the wins for record at international level isn't worlds apart. If us Jocks could raise our performance against diddy teams ( no laughing at the back ) to the levels displayed against the English we could be world beaters. 

Edit: taking into account the size of the nations.


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## Dodger (Apr 12, 2014)

Scottish fitbaw is just far superior to the English version.

I mean you don't get those comedy gold moments one of which I enjoyed with sooo much pleasure today.......

[video=youtube;o8YLgQw755M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=o8YLgQw755M[/video]


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 12, 2014)

Do you see the backboard when he scores.

'He shoots.......he misses..........eh naw he disnae.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 12, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I learned something new today

Liverpool have not won the English Premier League.
		
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Tbf tho it's only been going for 22 years :rofl:


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## Dodger (Apr 12, 2014)

Watching the FA Cup Semi and by hell the standard is rank.

Sanogo is not a real player is he? Does he actually get paid for playing? Surely not?


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## Piece (Apr 12, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Watching the FA Cup Semi and by hell the standard is rank.

Sanogo is not a real player is he? Does he actually get paid for playing? Surely not?
		
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Somebody on Facebook said Sanogo is the other George Weah 'cousin' ... :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 13, 2014)

Now today is the sort of drama and excitement that you get in the English Prem !!

And much respect to Celtic for their gesture today


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 13, 2014)

Hogan's going to be well pleased, his team is in the final v Dundee United.


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## Rumpokid (Apr 13, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Watching the FA Cup Semi and by hell the standard is rank.

Sanogo is not a real player is he? Does he actually get paid for playing? Surely not?
		
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Hope you watched todays Semi..Am a Blades fan, and was a great game..No diving,mincing and other hoodwinking.We lost,but still was a good game for football.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 14, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Hogan's going to be well pleased, his team is in the final v Dundee United.
		
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Just a wee bit pleased.  And it was actually a good game and the standard of football was not at all bad.  And in case anyone hasn't heard of Stevie May - STEVIE MAY!!! You have now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26908707

btw did you note May's shirt squad number - 17. And when is the Cup Final - 17th May


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 14, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			btw did you note May's shirt squad number - 17. And when is the Cup Final - 17th May 

Click to expand...

It's fate, fate I tell you!!!


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## Adi2Dassler (Apr 14, 2014)

Hope St.Johnstone win it, got a real soft spot for David Wotherspoon who looked like the next mega youth player we had developed until our club turned to poison and he was dragged down with it.Happy he moved to save his career and now he's playing for the team he supports.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 14, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			It's fate, fate I tell you!!!



Click to expand...

It is - absolutely is.

And for those who (rightly much of the time) scoff at the quality Scottish football - have a watch of the 5 mins clip and tell me it's dull and rubbish.  Maybe not EPL or Champions League standard but not as dreadful as some on here would make out.


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## CMAC (Apr 14, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Just a wee bit pleased.  And it was actually a good game and the standard of football was not at all bad.  And in case anyone hasn't heard of Stevie May - STEVIE MAY!!! You have now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26908707

btw did you note May's shirt squad number - 17. And when is the Cup Final - 17th May 

Click to expand...

That was 5 mins in 90 

#17 now your clutching at straws :rofl:


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## CMAC (Apr 14, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			It is - absolutely is.

And for those who (rightly much of the time) scoff at the quality Scottish football - have a watch of the 5 mins clip and tell me it's dull and rubbish.  Maybe not EPL or Champions League standard but not as dreadful as some on here would make out.
		
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I would think 5 mins taken from any EPL game would be better, lets be honest. Even the 5 mins has a player not knowing where ball was, a shanked shot from 7 yds, poor headers and toe pokes.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 14, 2014)

CMAC said:



			I would think 5 mins taken from any EPL game would be better, lets be honest. Even the 5 mins has a player not knowing where ball was, a shanked shot from 7 yds, poor headers and toe pokes.
		
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I'm not saying it wouldn't.  But I watched the whole game and it was pretty good and reasonable quality of football played.   By the way if you watch you'll see that the Aberdeen forward 'shanked' his shot as a St Johnstone defender threw himself in to block - in fact what you don't see is the fact that the Aberdeen players shot was deflected by the defender - so making it appear 'worse' than it actually was.  And what is wrong with a 'toe-poke' when it is the correct shot to play - actually it was the top of his boot rather than toe.

No matter - I suspect if a player had done what Kompany did leading up to Liverpool's third goal you'd be using that as evidence of the pathetic nature of Scottish football in general.  Actually Kompany being sold the dummy for their first was clearly also evidence that EPL defending is the pits.


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## Foxholer (Apr 14, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			No matter - I suspect if a player had done what Kompany did leading up to Liverpool's third goal you'd be using that as evidence of the pathetic nature of Scottish football in general.  Actually Kompany being sold the dummy for their first was clearly also evidence that EPL defending is the pits.
		
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I don't think Kompany would be proud of that moment and maybe not the dummy either, but i'm more inclined to think the first goal and others like it are as a result of greater skill by attackers, even against better, more organised defences. That's the sort of thing I prefer about EPL that rarely happens in SPL. What I saw of the 2nd SF was more typical of SPL - though even that was a level above imo. No difference in the determination/passion/competitiveness; just a different quality of player/style of play.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 14, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			I don't think Kompany would be proud of that moment and maybe not the dummy either, but i'm more inclined to think the first goal and others like it are as a result of greater skill by attackers, even against better, more organised defences. That's the sort of thing I prefer about EPL that rarely happens in SPL. What I saw of the 2nd SF was more typical of SPL - though even that was a level above imo. No difference in the determination/passion/competitiveness; just a different quality of player/style of play.
		
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I am not comparing the Semi-Final with ANY other league in England.  I was simply saying that the standard of the game and of the football was pretty good and that it wasn't of the level of incompetency that many ascribe to the game in Scotland.


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 14, 2014)

Hogan you are wasting your time, Sky has brainwashed the lot of them [well most of them]

No Scotsman on here is comparing Scotland to England.
What most are saying is that the gap in quality is not as big as many EPL supporters believe.

I give you Gary Caldwell, Shagger the Goalie and the Norwich right back to support my claim.


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## CMAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Hogan you are wasting your time, Sky has brainwashed the lot of them [well most of them]

*No Scotsman on here is comparing Scotland to England.
What most are saying is that the gap in quality is not as big as many EPL supporters believe.*

I give you Gary Caldwell, Shagger the Goalie and the Norwich right back to support my claim.
		
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I'm not an EPL supporter and that's not what I was saying- the gap is huge, just enormous. There are many reasons but that's irrelevant, the fact is all that was being discussed.


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 14, 2014)

CMAC said:



			I'm not an EPL supporter and that's not what I was saying- the gap is huge, just enormous. There are many reasons but that's irrelevant, the fact is all that was being discussed.
		
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So why are some very ordinary ex SPL players a first team choice in some EPL teams.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 14, 2014)

CMAC said:



			I'm not an EPL supporter and that's not what I was saying- the gap is huge, just enormous. There are many reasons but that's irrelevant, the fact is all that was being discussed.
		
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OK - but maybe the gap is just as enormous with, for instance, the Norwegian league - after all St Johnstone beat Rosenberg at the start of the season in the Europa League - Saints are 6th in the SPL, Rosenberg BK are 5th in the Norwegian League.

The EPL is a frankenstein's monster of a league nonpareil and beyond comparison as it is beyond a joke in some of it's ways. 

And please @CMAC - in my posting I was simply saying that Sundays Scottish Cup Semi-Final was pretty darned good - if you gave it a chance.  It was competitive and enjoyable - and a lot of the football was neat and skillful.  All three goals were excellent IMO, and in no way were due to defensive howlers.


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 14, 2014)

I notice also that no one has come out in support of the 3 EPL players I have named.
Given half a chance I could come out with a few more.

Everton's good position in the league is helped by the performance of it's Scots players [who are not first team picks for the national side.]


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 14, 2014)

We're getting there Doon - up to 22 in the World Rankings.  Fair bit of positivity being expressed towards wee Gordie and the team on the Tartan Army Boards.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Hogan you are wasting your time, Sky has brainwashed the lot of them [well most of them]

No Scotsman on here is comparing Scotland to England.
What most are saying is that the gap in quality is not as big as many EPL supporters believe.

I give you Gary Caldwell, Shagger the Goalie and the Norwich right back to support my claim.
		
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Gary Caldwell plays in the Championship


The gap between league is big enough to state with a lot of confidence that only one team would survive in the prem. 

Naming a couple of Scottish players in the prem ( or championship ) doesn't change that


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## CMAC (Apr 14, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



_*OK - but maybe the gap is just as enormous with, for instance, the Norwegian league - *_

And please @CMAC - in my posting I was simply saying that Sundays Scottish Cup Semi-Final was pretty darned good - if you gave it a chance.  It was competitive and enjoyable - and a lot of the football was neat and skillful.  All three goals were excellent IMO, and in no way were due to defensive howlers.
		
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The gap might be but I don't live there so its not relevant to the OP.


I have no doubt the semi final was good and there was some decent skill on show, relative to their standing. The OP was a general comment as I see it from an entertainment point of view, one was a level I can see at the local parks on a Sunday, one was highly entertaining. That's all.


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 14, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Gary Caldwell plays in the Championship
		
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Only this year.

Wigan was it not. FA cup etc, semi's this year.

I suppose that does not count

He would struggle to get into The Rangers team.


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 14, 2014)

CMAC said:



			The gap might be but I don't live there so its not relevant to the OP.


I have no doubt the semi final was good and there was some decent skill on show, relative to their standing. The OP was a general comment as I see it from an entertainment point of view, one was a level I can see at the local parks on a Sunday, one was highly entertaining. That's all.
		
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Sorry I don't find tippy tappy football entertaining, sleep inducing maybe.


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## CMAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Sorry I don't find tippy tappy football entertaining, sleep inducing maybe.
		
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I thought you liked the SPL


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 14, 2014)

CMAC said:



			I thought you liked the SPL
		
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SPL is blood and snotters.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Only this year.

Wigan was it not. FA cup etc, semi's this year.

I suppose that does not count

He would struggle to get into The Rangers team.
		
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And ? Does one player point to the gap being smaller ?

How many teams from Scotland do you believe would survive in the prem and which teams ?


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 14, 2014)

Can I just ask a serious question to the Scottish guys? Does as much diving & cheating go on in the SPL as in the EPL? It was embarrassing watching some of the blatant  cheating yesterday in the EPL.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2014)

Diving been happening in the EPL for many years - not just yesterday


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## c1973 (Apr 14, 2014)

Only one team in Scotland would survive in the EPL at the moment. The rest wouldn't cos they are, well, not very good tbh.


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## Foxholer (Apr 14, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Can I just ask a serious question to the Scottish guys? Does as much diving & cheating go on in the SPL as in the EPL? It was embarrassing watching some of the blatant  cheating yesterday in the EPL.
		
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Shouldn't do  (and don't seem to) these days. They took steps to sort it out. Something English FA should do imo.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/285394-explained-how-the-scottish-fa-punish-diving/

In spite of apparent improvement, I'm surprised how much time Suarez spends on the ground - especially given how strong he was in the movement that up Liverpool's first goal. I can forgive the one in the Penalty Area later in 1st half - that wouldn't have surprised me if a Penalty had been awarded,


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Shouldn't do  (and don't seem to) these days. They took steps to sort it out. Something English FA should do imo.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/285394-explained-how-the-scottish-fa-punish-diving/

In spite of apparent improvement, I'm surprised how much time Suarez spends on the ground - especially given how strong he was in the movement that up Liverpool's first goal. I can forgive the one in the Penalty Area later in 1st half - that wouldn't have surprised me if a Penalty had been awarded,
		
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Diving didn't start with Suarez and it won't finish with him 

Deserved a booking for his dive yesterday and he was poor - too busy protesting instead of playing 

But he isn't the only one.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 14, 2014)

The EPL is full of divers & cheats,Suarez just took it to a new level yesterday. It was constant. Certainly not a top bloke,IMO.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2014)

That level has been reached by plenty before - plenty.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 14, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That level has been reached by plenty before - plenty.
		
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Your entitled to your opinion Phil,no matter how blinkered it is. If you were been really honest tho there's no way you could say he's a nice person. 
I'll leave it at that so it doesn't take over the thread.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Your entitled to your opinion Phil,no matter how blinkered it is. If you were been really honest tho there's no way you could say he's a nice person. 
I'll leave it at that so it doesn't take over the thread.
		
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If you want to check out divers ( unless you are moving on a level now to judge him as a person ) have a quick look at Oscars vs Southampton or Oscars vs Stoke. Shall we judge him as a person also for his diving or perhaps Bertrand for his against QPR , or Robbens numerous in his times , or Drogba 

Your history is littered with them 

Suarez should have been booked and given a second yellow on Sunday and no one has denied that.


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## hoop67 (Apr 14, 2014)

Celtic imo would survive in the epl long enough to encourage a better quality of player to sign.Would take 3 or 4 seasons of mid table finishes to establish themselves then would be challenging for europa cup/champions league spot.Without doubt the money factor is huge and pointless comparing the 2 leagues but playing in one of the best leagues in the world would attract massive sponsorship.Also worth remembering that the current Celtic team would be totaly different from what we have now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2014)

hoop67 said:



			Celtic imo would survive in the epl long enough to encourage a better quality of player to sign.Would take 3 or 4 seasons of mid table finishes to establish themselves then would be challenging for europa cup/champions league spot.Without doubt the money factor is huge and pointless comparing the 2 leagues but playing in one of the best leagues in the world would attract massive sponsorship.Also worth remembering that the current Celtic team would be totaly different from what we have now.
		
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Yep - think Celtic have the "base" to be able to succeed in the prem - would take a good 5 years I think but would be around the top 6


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 14, 2014)

Think Celtic would hold their own in the Premier League from the outset and comfortably finish mid table if not in a Europa League spot. Too many mediocre mid and lower end teams. Whether they would then kick on and make top is more debatable, certainly not without significant investment. Even then would that be enough. Its academic as they will never join and unless a European Super League arrives then it'll be business as usual both sides of Hadrian wall


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## bluewolf (Apr 15, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Only this year.

Wigan was it not. FA cup etc, semi's this year.

I suppose that does not count

He would struggle to get into The Rangers team.
		
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Not that I want to get involved in the wider argument, but I should say that using Gary Caldwell to support your argument might not be the best idea. A fantastic leader of men he may be, but a quality defender he most definitely is not. I cringe just thinking about the mistakes he has made..

Now big Lee Mcullough is a different matter. Absolute Latics legend and someone who will always be welcome back to the DW Stadium..


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If you want to check out divers ( unless you are moving on a level now to judge him as a person ) have a quick look at Oscars vs Southampton or Oscars vs Stoke. Shall we judge him as a person also for his diving or perhaps Bertrand for his against QPR , or Robbens numerous in his times , or Drogba 

Your history is littered with them 

Suarez should have been booked and given a second yellow on Sunday and no one has denied that.
		
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My original question was for the Scottish guys,as I assumed they watch more SPL than me. Everything doesn't have to be about you Phil.
& yes I judge him on more than his diving,as I would any one with his previous.


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 15, 2014)

Divers in Scotland tend to get boo'd by their own supporters who find them embarrassing.


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## Dodger (Apr 15, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Not that I want to get involved in the wider argument, but I should say that using Gary Caldwell to support your argument might not be the best idea. A fantastic leader of men he may be, but a quality defender he most definitely is not. I cringe just thinking about the mistakes he has made..

Now big Lee Mcullough is a different matter. Absolute Latics legend and someone who will always be welcome back to the DW Stadium..

Click to expand...

The Heed is a bombscare of a footballer.I laughed when he was 1st to step up on Saturday,it was in the script as faux pas follow The Heed around.

Dreadful footballer.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 15, 2014)

On the diving and feigning injury front - the ref on Sunday has got plaudits from many for letting the game flow.  There were many rumbustious challenges that would have seen EPL players rolling around looking for opponent to be booked and game stopped.  Didn't see that happen once in the 92minutes,  Players getting clattered and picking themselves up and getting on with it.  It was rather refreshing actually.  No - it was VERY refreshing.


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## MegaSteve (Apr 15, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Can I just ask a serious question to the Scottish guys? Does as much diving & cheating go on in the SPL as in the EPL? It was embarrassing watching some of the blatant  cheating yesterday in the EPL.
		
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Setting aside diving [second worse 'disease' in the modern game] and general foul play what do you consider as "blatant cheating"?


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## MegaSteve (Apr 15, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Divers in Scotland tend to get boo'd by their own supporters who find them embarrassing.
		
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Generally the same down here... Know quite few from down the lane who were critical of their former resident 'diver'...


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 15, 2014)

MegaSteve said:



			Setting aside diving [second worse 'disease' in the modern game] and general foul play what do you consider as "blatant cheating"?
		
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Skrtal punching the ball off the top of the heads of Man City players?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2014)

Didnt Lafferty get banned for a month or so for feigning injury from a headbutt ? 

Let's be honest - you would be hard pushed to find a team or a league that hasn't benefitted from a handball or going to ground easily etc 

It doesn't make it right but they are all as bad as each other. In footba there are no "innocents" as such


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## MegaSteve (Apr 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Skrtal punching the ball off the top of the heads of Man City players?
		
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Hardly an example of "blatant cheating" though... As would've gone un-noticed without the cameras being there [no one else seemed to spot it]...


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## Slime (Apr 15, 2014)

MegaSteve said:



*Hardly an example of "blatant cheating"* though... As would've gone un-noticed without the cameras being there [no one else seemed to spot it]...
		
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He did it deliberately, that's blatant, and it's against the rules, that's cheating.
The fact that the referee didn't see it is totally & utterly irrelevant.
It was blatant cheating.


*Slime*.


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## Foxholer (Apr 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Skrtal punching the ball off the top of the heads of Man City players?
		
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I'm not 100% sure he punched it. But he was certainly climbing all over, and was holding down, the 2 guys he was competing for the ball with. The amount of cheating that goes on at Corners is ridiculous. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be an appropriate punishment imo. Yellow Card is very probably too harsh - maybe not; Penalty is definitely too harsh. But it can be chaotic! And while I've specified Skrtal, it's not limited to him!


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## MegaSteve (Apr 15, 2014)

Slime said:



			He did it deliberately, that's blatant, and it's against the rules, that's cheating.
The fact that the referee didn't see it is totally & utterly irrelevant.
It was blatant cheating.


*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...


Go on... How do you know it was a deliberate act of handball?
It didn't just go unseen by the officials but the entire stadium aside from the TV crew [seemingly]...


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## Slime (Apr 15, 2014)

MegaSteve said:



			Go on... *How do you know it was a deliberate act of handball?*
It didn't just go unseen by the officials but the entire stadium aside from the TV crew [seemingly]...
		
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Because I saw what he did!
When someone clenches a fist and then moves it rapidly and accurately towards a target, which he then hits, I deem that deliberate.
If people don't see it, it doesn't mean that it never happened.


*Slime*.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 15, 2014)

Slime said:



			He did it deliberately, that's blatant, and it's against the rules, that's cheating.
The fact that the referee didn't see it is totally & utterly irrelevant.
It was blatant cheating.


*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...

Correct @Slime - you took the words...


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2014)

Always hard to just intent and what was done deliberate or not - Defenders regularly jump with arms up etc 

Unless he tells you he did it deliberately you can only "guess"

But if everyone who breaks the rules in football is a "cheat" then football or indeed any sport doesn't automatically suggest someone is a cheat if they break a rule.


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## bluewolf (Apr 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Correct @Slime - you took the words...
		
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Strange how people can see things so differently.. I've watched it quite a few times now and it looks like Skrtel raises his hand to jump up, his arm/hand then hits the top of Sakho's (I think) head and is deflected up and forwards. There is a slight flick which may or may not be intentional but I can't say for certain...

 I envy those who claim without doubt that they know the facts.. I'm not that good I'm afraid... I'm also completely neutral, which may or may not be important..

[video=youtube;47hsFzqBsOU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47hsFzqBsOU[/video]


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## Birchy (Apr 15, 2014)

Im not being funny but it was a blatant deliberate handball. Watch him turn his head away just before the point of impact to try and make it not look deliberate and he also flicks his arm towards it. No defender in that position turns their head away like that, they just don't.

I hope Liverpool win the title just to heap some extra misery on our Manc friends who have had it too good for too long. The fact a Fergie special helped them along the way makes it even more funny :rofl:


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## bluewolf (Apr 15, 2014)

Birchy said:



			I hope Liverpool win the title just to heap some extra misery on our Manc friends who have had it too good for too long. The fact a Fergie special helped them along the way makes it even more funny :rofl:
		
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So what you're saying is that it DOES help to be completely neutral then?


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## Birchy (Apr 15, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			So what you're saying is that it DOES help to be completely neutral then? 

Click to expand...

To be fair I wouldn't lose much sleep if City won it either :rofl:

Yes it does sometimes even though its no fun when your own team is so cack I reckon I could pull a team off here that would do em in


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 15, 2014)

I'll add that I do hope Liverpool win the league - just that I can't be a**ed with Skrtel and all his antics.

On the matter of the OP.  I absolutely agree that the Scottish League Cup Final was gash - and everyone connected and present has said it was a disappointingly poor advert for Scottish football - but hopefully Sunday's semi cast the Scottish game in a rather better light.  I'll note that Saturday's fare was not very good - but that was simply The Rangers dragging Dundee Utd down to their Scottish Div 1 (third tier) level.  Some forget when they see The Rangers on TV that they are 3rd tier Scottish club.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I'll add that I do hope Liverpool win the league - just that I can't be a**ed with Skrtel and all his antics.

On the matter of the OP.  I absolutely agree that the Scottish League Cup Final was gash - and everyone connected and present has said it was a disappointingly poor advert for Scottish football - but hopefully Sunday's semi cast the Scottish game in a rather better light.  I'll note that Saturday's fare was not very good - but that was simply The Rangers dragging Dundee Utd down to their Scottish Div 1 (third tier) level.  Some forget when they see The Rangers on TV that they are 3rd tier Scottish club.
		
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What other "antics" ?


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## hoop67 (Apr 15, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Not that I want to get involved in the wider argument, but I should say that using Gary Caldwell to support your argument might not be the best idea. A fantastic leader of men he may be, but a quality defender he most definitely is not. I cringe just thinking about the mistakes he has made..

Now big Lee Mcullough is a different matter. Absolute Latics legend and someone who will always be welcome back to the DW Stadium..

Click to expand...

I am sure there will be a lot of footballers in Scotland more than happy to pay his fare from glasgow to wigan.He is one of the dirtiest players i have ever seen in the scottish game






Wee bit instant karma there


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## bluewolf (Apr 15, 2014)

hoop67 said:



			I am sure there will be a lot of footballers in Scotland more than happy to pay his fare from glasgow to wigan.He is one of the dirtiest players i have ever seen in the scottish game






Wee bit instant karma there 

Click to expand...

Lol.. He always was a bit physical.. A bit like Shearer and his consciously uncoupled elbows... I'd still have had him in any team I supported though..


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## hoop67 (Apr 15, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Lol.. He always was a bit physical.. A bit like Shearer and his consciously uncoupled elbows... I'd still have had him in any team I supported though..

Click to expand...

Bit physical....aye,a wee bit  The part that tried to do the keeper were his studs..no his elbows.Let me know how much the train fare is


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## MegaSteve (Apr 15, 2014)

MegaSteve said:



			Setting aside diving [second worse 'disease' in the modern game] and general foul play what do you consider as "blatant cheating"?
		
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I asked for an opinion of what would be considered as "blatant cheating" and we get one example of which I don't necessarily agree...

So from one weekend [diving aside] that's it?


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 15, 2014)

Bluewolf, you read my post wrongly.
I was saying that if Caldwell can star in the EPL for quite a few years the overall quality is not as good as many think.
I don't think we would pick him for Hearts in front of our youngsters.


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## Birchy (Apr 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What other "antics" ?
		
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He likes other peoples shirts put it that way.


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## Birchy (Apr 15, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Bluewolf, you read my post wrongly.
I was saying that if Caldwell can star in the EPL for quite a few years the overall quality is not as good as many think.
I don't think we would pick him for Hearts in front of our youngsters.
		
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Star? :rofl:

I used to pray he was playing whenever we played Wigan, he was always good for a goal or 3


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## MegaSteve (Apr 15, 2014)

Birchy said:



			He likes other peoples shirts put it that way.
		
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The first worse 'disease' in the modern game...

Needs to be eradicated by the authorities as soon as...

Not sure its any worse here than anywhere else though...


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2014)

MegaSteve said:



			The first worse 'disease' in the modern game...

Needs to be eradicated by the authorities as soon as...

Not sure its any worse here than anywhere else though...
		
Click to expand...

They certainly need to sort out the amount of fouling that goes on at corners - holding, pulling , shirt grabbing etc - every corner is the same


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## Birchy (Apr 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They certainly need to sort out the amount of fouling that goes on at corners - holding, pulling , shirt grabbing etc - every corner is the same
		
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I agree, loads do it now. As soon as you grab another players shirt it should be an instant penalty imo. There cant be any reason within the laws of the game that allows that at all.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2014)

Birchy said:



			I agree, loads do it now. As soon as you grab another players shirt it should be an instant penalty imo. There cant be any reason within the laws of the game that allows that at all.
		
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As long as it goes both ways because the attackers also have a fair grab at times also :thup:


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They certainly need to sort out the amount of fouling that goes on at corners - holding, pulling , shirt grabbing etc - every corner is the same
		
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And you had to ask about the other antics that Skrtel is a master of?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And you had to ask about the other antics that Skrtel is a master of? 

Click to expand...


Yes because I forgot that Skrtel is the only player doing it ! 

Let's ignore watching Vidic or Terry or in fact any physical CB doing it and concentrate on just the one player.  Just like Suarez is the other diver and cheat , Skrtel is the only player to handball and grapple with a player in the box.


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## MegaSteve (Apr 16, 2014)

Well done to the 'ammer [think it was Jarvis] who determinedly stayed vertical, yesterday, when a little swanny could well have seen him 'winning' a pen... Wonder if BIG Sam thanked him for doing so... 

And before Doon points it out there wasn't a single English player in the Arsenal starting line-up....


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## Snelly (Apr 16, 2014)

The difference between Scottish and English football is huge in many respects.  Not least in the damage that the EPL does to our culture and attitude to each other.  It is a moral vacuum.  Played by morons, managed by the devious, over-indulged by the media and supported by the blinkered.   It has a negative, pervasive influence on sport and society and I think it is, for the most part, horrible.


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## Foxholer (Apr 16, 2014)

Snelly said:



			The difference between Scottish and English football is huge in many respects.  Not least in the damage that the EPL does to our culture and attitude to each other.  It is a moral vacuum.  Played by morons, managed by the devious, over-indulged by the media and supported by the blinkered.   It has a negative, pervasive influence on sport and society and I think it is, for the most part, horrible.
		
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And how is that different in Scotland?

A huge number of pubs in Edinburgh have signs saying 'no Football Shirts'!


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## Snelly (Apr 16, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			And how is that different in Scotland?

A huge number of pubs in Edinburgh have signs saying 'no Football Shirts'!
		
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With the exception of the Old Firm, Scottish football seems slightly more acceptable and Corinthian in spirit.


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## Foxholer (Apr 16, 2014)

Snelly said:



			With the exception of the Old Firm, Scottish football seems slightly more acceptable and Corinthian in spirit.
		
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Unconvinced! They are just not very good. But the fans are just as 'fanatical' as equivalent fans in England imo.

Old Firm is definitely unique. As is the EPL. And in both cases, more for the bad reasons then for the good ones!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2014)

Snelly said:



			The difference between Scottish and English football is huge in many respects.  Not least in the damage that the EPL does to our culture and attitude to each other.  It is a moral vacuum.  Played by morons, managed by the devious, over-indulged by the media and supported by the blinkered.   It has a negative, pervasive influence on sport and society and I think it is, for the most part, horrible.
		
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Isnt that the same all around the globe with football as opposed to just England or the EPL ? 

And morals in sport ? Very rare.

But sport/football can also unite a country and fans can be united in a common aim - 

The way that all the clubs acted over the weekend shows there is respect and humility in the game still


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 16, 2014)

Finally good news for Hearts fans.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/ann-budge-hearts-deal-is-the-start-of-a-new-era-1-3378009


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 16, 2014)

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...ts-Matt-Jarvis-for-NOT-DIVING-against-Arsenal
It's come to something when a player gets criticised for staying on his feet. Sadly Neville as got a point.


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## Adi2Dassler (Apr 16, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Finally good news for Hearts fans.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/ann-budge-hearts-deal-is-the-start-of-a-new-era-1-3378009

Click to expand...

On balance, and removing my extreme militance, this is good news, for Scottish football,Hertz, and dare I say it, Hibs.Relegation and a couple of seasons down, cloth cut accordingly and living within means.A level playing field.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...ts-Matt-Jarvis-for-NOT-DIVING-against-Arsenal
It's come to something when a player gets criticised for staying on his feet. Sadly Neville as got a point.
		
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it was a penalty and should have been given - fair play to Jarvis for staying on his feet.

But its sad if it has come to a point when a ref will only give a pen if the players go down


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 16, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			it was a penalty and should have been given - fair play to Jarvis for staying on his feet.

But its sad if it has come to a point when a ref will only give a pen if the players go down
		
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It doesn't exactly give a player any incentive to stay on his feet does it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			It doesn't exactly give a player any incentive to stay on his feet does it.
		
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I remember at the beginning of the 06/07 season when Gerrard was through on goal and a guy came flying in and Gerrard had to jump over him and stumbled and missed the chance - the ref gave the penalty which imo was right but the reaction was saying the ref was wrong because Gerrard wasnt touched - only because he jumped !

Refs are really having too much say in the game


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 16, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I remember at the beginning of the 06/07 season when Gerrard was through on goal and a guy came flying in and Gerrard had to jump over him and stumbled and missed the chance - the ref gave the penalty which imo was right but the reaction was saying the ref was wrong because Gerrard wasnt touched - only because he jumped !

Refs are really having too much say in the game
		
Click to expand...

This just shows that it's not so simple. If Gerrard doesn't jump,gets wiped out & potentially injured then it's definitely a pen. He chose to jump,which meant he had to give up a goal scoring opportunity & probably 5 times out of 10 wouldn't get the penalty.


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## Slime (Apr 16, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I remember at the beginning of the 06/07 season when Gerrard was through on goal and a guy came flying in and Gerrard had to jump over him and stumbled and missed the chance - the ref gave the penalty which imo was right but the reaction was saying the ref was wrong because Gerrard wasnt touched - only because he jumped !

*Refs are really having too much say in the game*

Click to expand...

Liverpool v City is a good example.
The ref had so much say ......................... just by doing nothing!
Refs need help, and they need it now.


*Slime*.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 16, 2014)

Slime said:



			Liverpool v City is a good example.
The ref had so much say ......................... just by doing nothing!
Refs need help, and they need it now.


*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah the modern game is too fast for refs to make so many big decisions. 
But when you see refs not using the help they already have,(like in the Liverpool v West Ham game) when the ref clearly ignored the linesman it makes you wonder.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2014)

Slime said:



			Liverpool v City is a good example.
The ref had so much say ......................... just by doing nothing!
Refs need help, and they need it now.


*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...

refs just need to be held accountable - currently they arent and are protected - football would be ruined by adding more technology into it

Its not a game that allows "natural breaks" for vid replays to be used.

The ref has had a say in all the big games so far this season


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yeah the modern game is too fast for refs to make so many big decisions. 
But when you see refs not using the help they already have,(like in the Liverpool v West Ham game) when the ref clearly ignored the linesman it makes you wonder.
		
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Exactly - the linesman even spotted the foul but was ignored by the ref. 

Refs i believe have got very arrogant and are protected by that spineless pregnant fish Riley


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## Slime (Apr 16, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



*refs just need to be held accountable* - currently they arent and are protected - football would be ruined by adding more technology into it

Its not a game that allows "natural breaks" for vid replays to be used.

The ref has had a say in all the big games so far this season
		
Click to expand...

It's the players who should be held accountable. 
How are refs supposed to cope with all those professional athletes who insist on cheating at every opportunity.
And then we here that it doesn't pay to be an honest footballer, what hope is there?


*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2014)

Slime said:



			It's the players who should be held accountable. 
How are refs supposed to cope with all those professional athletes who insist on cheating at every opportunity.
And then we here that it doesn't pay to be an honest footballer, what hope is there?


*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...

Players will try as much as they are allowed and yes they need to be held accountable for their actions

When players make mistakes their clubs suffer and they suffer

When a ref makes a mistake the clubs also suffer.

Yes players dive and try and foul etc - been doing that for decades 

But that doesnt excuse poor referring


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## Slime (Apr 16, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Players will try as much as they are allowed and yes they need to be held accountable for their actions
When players make mistakes their clubs suffer and they suffer
When a ref makes a mistake the clubs also suffer.
Yes players dive and try and foul etc - been doing that for decades 

*But that doesnt excuse poor referring*

Click to expand...

I'm certainly not excusing poor refereeing, but, if the players want a better standard of refereeing they have to help.
Players & managers have no right to complain about the officials when they are the ones who openly promote cheating.


*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2014)

Slime said:



			I'm certainly not excusing poor refereeing, but, if the players want a better standard of refereeing they have to help.
Players & managers have no right to complain about the officials when they are the ones who openly promote cheating.


*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...

Openly promote cheating ! Who has promoted cheating ? 

The word "cheating" is getting thrown around far too easily currently

I guess you believe committing a foul is cheating

If there was a better standard of referring then the dives and correct decisions would be made and the players wouldnt get away with stuff on the pitch.


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## Slime (Apr 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Openly promote cheating ! *Who has promoted cheating ? *

The word "cheating" is getting thrown around far too easily currently

*I guess you believe committing a foul is cheating*

If there was a better standard of referring then the dives and correct decisions would be made and the players wouldnt get away with stuff on the pitch.
		
Click to expand...

Many managers have advocated going down in the penalty area if contact is felt. Just because there is contact it doesn't have to bring a player down, the player often makes that decision depending where abouts on the pitch he is or whether his opponent is on a yellow card or not.
Jarvis has just been criticised for being 'too honest'!

Not necessarily. If a foul is deliberate, that's cheating. If a foul is accidental, that's breaking the rules, but not cheating.

If the players didn't dive it wouldn't be an issue & the refs could concentrate more on the game than on the gamesmanship!

You carry on blaming the referees, I'll carry on blaming the players and the managers.


*Slime*.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 17, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			On balance, and removing my extreme militance, this is good news, for Scottish football,Hertz, and dare I say it, Hibs.Relegation and a couple of seasons down, cloth cut accordingly and living within means.A level playing field.
		
Click to expand...

Good news


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 17, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Good news
		
Click to expand...

The Rangers, Hearts, Dunfermilne and Hibs in the SCL next year could make it quite exciting.


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## Snelly (Apr 17, 2014)

Jose M encourages his players to hound officials and to dive.

That is cheating and poor behaviour.


What a great example for children who watch.


Absolutely pathetic.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 17, 2014)

Snelly said:



*Jose M encourages his players to hound officials and to dive.*

That is cheating and poor behaviour.


What a great example for children who watch.


Absolutely pathetic.
		
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http://www1.skysports.com/football/...ays-he-thinks-players-who-dive-are-a-disgrace

Lots of sports have incidents which aren't good examples to kids - golf included.


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## Snelly (Apr 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



http://www1.skysports.com/football/...ays-he-thinks-players-who-dive-are-a-disgrace

Lots of sports have incidents which aren't good examples to kids - golf included.
		
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Name some more sports with relatively comparable media coverage where the manager deliberately asks the teams to harass officials and blatantly cheat for advantage then.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 17, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Name some more sports with relatively comparable media coverage where the manager deliberately asks the teams to harass officials and blatantly cheat for advantage then.
		
Click to expand...


Blood gate in rugby

Ball tampering in cricket 

Drugs in athletics 

I'm guessing you can prove your accusations above ?


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## Snelly (Apr 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blood gate in rugby

Ball tampering in cricket 

Drugs in athletics 

I'm guessing you can prove your accusations above ?
		
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Oh yes.  Silly me. 

You are right after all.  Football is fine....


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 17, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Oh yes.  Silly me. 

You are right after all.  Football is fine....
		
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When did I say football was fine ? 

Do you have the proof then ?


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## Snelly (Apr 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When did I say football was fine ? 

Do you have the proof then ?
		
Click to expand...


I don't care.

You could have an argument in an empty room Phil.


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## Foxholer (Apr 17, 2014)

Snelly said:



			I don't care.

You could have an argument in an empty room Phil.
		
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And a dark one at that!

I at least need the lights on!

Btw. Schrodinger's Cat logic notwithstanding, it wouldn't be empty would it! And would anyone know? :whoo: Or care?


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## Slime (Apr 17, 2014)

Nurse ............................. he's escaped again & he's forgotten to take his medication!


*Slime*.


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## Foxholer (Apr 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blood gate in rugby

Ball tampering in cricket 

Drugs in athletics 

I'm guessing you can prove your accusations above ?
		
Click to expand...

There will always be occasional 'one-off's and these are generally dealt with very severely. The Blood Gate certainly was! Ball Tampering certainly has been - when identified - though less severely than I would like.

Drugs in Athletics are an individual issue, not a Team one. Cycling, where it was a team one, seems to be getting its house in order, but hard to tell.

I think kids are actually pretty clued up as to what is 'good example' and what is 'bad example'! Spitting aside, I think players - whatever sport - should be allowed to show reasonable emotion. That doesn't mean they should be allowed to man-handle the Ref/Umpire though.


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 17, 2014)

What really bugs me is when the whole world can see an obvious throw in/corner to one side and the opposing player still tries to claim it.
Happens in both countries.


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## MegaSteve (Apr 17, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			What really bugs me is when the whole world can see an obvious throw in/corner to one side and the opposing player still tries to claim it.
Happens in both countries.
		
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Coached into them right from junior level...
Happens all over the world...
Doesn't make it any less annoying though ...


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 17, 2014)

Snelly said:



			I don't care.

You could have an argument in an empty room Phil.
		
Click to expand...


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## MegaSteve (Apr 18, 2014)

Watched some of the FA Youth Cup semi on the box yesterday... Some real good play to be seen... Wish I had made the effort to go as I had been told about it earlier in the week.... Only four notes to get in [two for kids]...


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 18, 2014)

MegaSteve said:



			Watched some of the FA Youth Cup semi on the box yesterday... Some real good play to be seen... Wish I had made the effort to go as I had been told about it earlier in the week.... Only four notes to get in [two for kids]...
		
Click to expand...

Yes I watched that for a bit, good innocent stuff.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 19, 2014)

One curious similarity/coincidence this weekend is that in the SPL St Johnstone play Dundee Utd and in the EPL Hull play Arsenal.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 19, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			One curious similarity/coincidence this weekend is that in the SPL St Johnstone play Dundee Utd and in the EPL Hull play Arsenal.
		
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2-0 for super Saintees - so that'll be 2-0 Hull tomorrow in the other half of the dress rehearsals.


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## Dodger (Apr 19, 2014)

Would love to see Hibs get sucked into the play off spot and ultimately go down. Just for Butcher.

Be some dog fight next season if it happens as well.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 19, 2014)

Anyone bother watching the Scottish Cup Final?  My lad was a bit surprised how good the football was and said it was the most fun he's ever had at a football match (well we were in the middle of 16000 celebrating St Johnstone fans )

We watched the second half of the FA Cup Final when we got home - and it wasn't half as exciting as the game we'd just been to   Quality of skills on show a different league from what we'd watched at Parkhead - but from a spectators pov of view the Scottish game was I think more exciting.  But I admit that I am VERY biased.


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## Foxholer (May 19, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Anyone bother watching the Scottish Cup Final?  My lad was a bit surprised how good the football was and said it was the most fun he's ever had at a football match (well we were in the middle of 16000 celebrating St Johnstone fans )

We watched the second half of the FA Cup Final when we got home - and it wasn't half as exciting as the game we'd just been to   Quality of skills on show a different league from what we'd watched at Parkhead - but from a spectators pov of view the Scottish game was I think more exciting.  But I admit that I am VERY biased.
		
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Saw a tiny bit of it - enough to confirm my prejudices about Scottish football. But can certainly understand how someone with a vested interest could find it more exciting than than the FA Cup.

And while TV provides better coverage, it's pretty tame compared to actually being there - and there's a lot going on that is not covered by cameras. I completely changed my view about Tony Adams when i saw him live (in an England shirt)!


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## gdunc79 (May 19, 2014)

I thought the Scottish Cup Final was fantastic! COYS!

Seriously though, from a neutral's perspective, although the standard of football is undoubtedly higher in the English Premiership than the Scottish Premiership you would be hard pushed to claim that the Scottish Cup Final was less entertaining/exciting that its English counterpart.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 19, 2014)

gdunc79 said:



			I thought the Scottish Cup Final was fantastic! COYS!

Seriously though, from a neutral's perspective, although the standard of football is undoubtedly higher in the English Premiership than the Scottish Premiership you would be hard pushed to claim that the Scottish Cup Final was less entertaining/exciting that its English counterpart.
		
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There wasn't a lot of 'tippy-tappy' football on show on Saturday - but plenty of the rumbustious, committed, up and at 'em (you cannae score from row Z) sort.  No shortage of skill though.  COYS!


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## Slime (May 19, 2014)

The technical skill levels were pretty low but it was still a good watch.
Not so much 'blood and thunder'as 'thud and blunder', but play acting was virtually non-existant.
It was refreshing to watch a physical football match without the pathetic play acting that is often seen in the prem.
It was also refreshing to see the Scottish Cup final played for by so many Scottish players. Not too many English players at Wembly ............................ and that I find very sad.


*Slime*.


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## CMAC (May 19, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Anyone bother watching the Scottish Cup Final?  My lad was a bit surprised how good the football was and said it was the most fun he's ever had at a football match (well we were in the middle of 16000 celebrating St Johnstone fans )

*We watched the second half of the FA Cup Final when we got home* - and it wasn't half as exciting as the game we'd just been to  *Quality of skills on show a different league from what we'd watched at Parkhead* - but from a spectators pov of view the Scottish game was I think more exciting.  But I admit that I am VERY biased.
		
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Couldn't agree more on the second sentence in bold!

I also saw the second half and ET of the 3-2 thriller played in warm sunshine


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 19, 2014)

CMAC said:



			Couldn't agree more on the second sentence in bold!

I also saw the second half and ET of the 3-2 thriller played in warm sunshine
		
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I didn't actually find the ET very thrilling and it was warm and dry in Glasgow


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## NWJocko (May 19, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Anyone bother watching the Scottish Cup Final?  My lad was a bit surprised how good the football was and said it was the most fun he's ever had at a football match (well we were in the middle of 16000 celebrating St Johnstone fans )

We watched the second half of the FA Cup Final when we got home - and it wasn't half as exciting as the game we'd just been to   Quality of skills on show a different league from what we'd watched at Parkhead - but from a spectators pov of view the Scottish game was I think more exciting.  But I admit that I am VERY biased.
		
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Didn't see it but congratulations!!

Being an aberdeen fan I wanted you to win a) as you were playing the Arabs and b) you knocked us out.

Must have been a great day, glad you enjoyed it and enjoy celebrating :whoo:


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 19, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			Didn't see it but congratulations!!

Being an aberdeen fan I wanted you to win a) as you were playing the Arabs and b) you knocked us out.

Must have been a great day, glad you enjoyed it and enjoy celebrating :whoo:
		
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What's been great is the congratulations coming from supporters of all clubs - even some grudging  congrats from Dundee and Gers supporters (why is it that Celtic supporters seem to be more at ease passing on their congrats).

50yrs of having the rip taken out of me for being a Glaswegian supporting St Johnstone (especially when I was at school) - winning the Cup is such a very sweet feeling.


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## c1973 (May 19, 2014)

Being a Ger I wasn't that fussed who won but it was nice to see the piggery decked out in Blue. 

Well done Saints, winning trophies is a good feeling, particularly for those who go week in week out and support their team. I enjoyed 'The saints are coming - The Skids' at the end (only bit I saw as it happens) but is that not pinched from the pars? 

Enjoy that winning feeling.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 19, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Being a Ger I wasn't that fussed who won but it was nice to see the piggery decked out in Blue. 

Well done Saints, winning trophies is a good feeling, particularly for those who go week in week out and support their team. I enjoyed 'The saints are coming - The Skids' at the end (only bit I saw as it happens) but is that not pinched from the pars? 

Enjoy that winning feeling. 

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It's going to be fun for your lot getting out of Championship if you have both Hibs and Hearts trying to win it as well.  Assuming that you still have a ground to play in


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## c1973 (May 19, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			It's going to be fun for your lot getting out of Championship if you have both Hibs and Hearts trying to win it as well.  Assuming that you still have a ground to play in 

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Yeah, it certainly isn't a given that we'll come up at the first attempt. It's going to be a helluva league next year, it's easily the most competitive up here and has been for years imo. Hearts finished the season well and should be a good test (as will quite a few others) and I pray that Hibs come down too. 

In Rangers and Hearts you've got 2 of the 3 biggest clubs in the country in the 2nd tier, kinda weird in a way. 


And we'll have a ground tae play in, don't worry about that..............not sayin we'll have a team of note though! Lol.


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## Doon frae Troon (May 19, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			It's going to be fun for your lot getting out of Championship if you have both Hibs and Hearts trying to win it as well.  Assuming that you still have a ground to play in 

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Not forgetting Falkirk as well.

'Twould be funny seeing them stuck there for another year though!


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## smange (May 19, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Being a Ger I wasn't that fussed who won but it was nice to see the piggery decked out in Blue. 

Well done Saints, winning trophies is a good feeling, particularly for those who go week in week out and support their team. I enjoyed *'The saints are coming - The Skids' at the end (only bit I saw as it happens) but is that not pinched from the pars? *

Enjoy that winning feeling. 

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It's "Into The Valley" by The Skids that's played at East End. :thup:

Shame we managed to save two of our worst performances of the season for the play off finals against Cowdenbeath as The Championship will be a great league next season and we would have had a lot of big crowds. 

Might sound a bit like sour grapes but the play offs are a nonsense in my opinion. Promotion and relegation should be decided over the space of the season, that's what league tables are for.


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## Liverbirdie (May 19, 2014)

smange said:



			It's "Into The Valley" by The Skids that's played at East End. :thup:

Shame we managed to save two of our worst performances of the season for the play off finals against Cowdenbeath as The Championship will be a great league next season and we would have had a lot of big crowds. 

Might sound a bit like sour grapes but the play offs are a nonsense in my opinion. Promotion and relegation should be decided over the space of the season, that's what league tables are for.
		
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Into the valley - great song!


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## gdunc79 (May 19, 2014)

smange said:



			It's "Into The Valley" by The Skids that's played at East End. :thup:

Shame we managed to save two of our worst performances of the season for the play off finals against Cowdenbeath as The Championship will be a great league next season and we would have had a lot of big crowds. 

Might sound a bit like sour grapes but the play offs are a nonsense in my opinion. Promotion and relegation should be decided over the space of the season, that's what league tables are for.
		
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The Scottish play offs are most definitely a nonsense. Feel for teams outside of the SPFL as odds so stacked against them ever getting to join! Here's hoping the Accies can prove me wrong...


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## c1973 (May 20, 2014)

smange said:



			It's "Into The Valley" by The Skids that's played at East End. :thup:

Shame we managed to save two of our worst performances of the season for the play off finals against Cowdenbeath as The Championship will be a great league next season and we would have had a lot of big crowds. 
*
Might sound a bit like sour grapes but the play offs are a nonsense in my opinion. Promotion and relegation should be decided over the space of the season, that's what league tables are for*.
		
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Completely agree, it should be 2 up 2 down at least. The play offs are a joke designed to keep teams in the higher league imo, another reason why I lost interest in going to the game if I'm honest.

Your spot on with the Skids.....facepalm moment!.........how did I forget that? Doh!


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## CMAC (May 20, 2014)

gdunc79 said:



*The Scottish play offs are most definitely a nonsense.* Feel for teams outside of the SPFL as odds so stacked against them ever getting to join! Here's hoping the Accies can prove me wrong...
		
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can someone explain how this works? not up to speed with it but I see in the States they use playoffs extremely effectively and it generates even more interest and revenue and keeps the season alive even if theres a runaway team


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## Liverpoolphil (May 20, 2014)

CMAC said:



			can someone explain how this works? not up to speed with it but I see in the States they use playoffs extremely effectively and it generates even more interest and revenue and keeps the season alive even if theres a runaway team
		
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The States use the playoff system to bring in different winners and runners up from multiple groups to find an overall champion 

Their playoffs aren't for sorting out promotion or relegation 

The playoffs for promotion in the FL were brought in to keep the season alive for many clubs and right up until the final day instead of having 3 teams automatically promoted - I believe they work and certainly keep things interesting 

What it appears they are doing in Scotland is a promotion or relegation play off - the team that finishes bottom 3 I think it is will then Face a team from the 1st division to decide who gets a spot in the prem 

I believe those systems are not fair - if you don't win enough games to stay in the division then you shouldn't get another wild card chance to stay up 

The hockey leagues do and whilst it brings a bit of money and excitement in so far it has seen teams win their league and not lose a match to not being promoted via a playoff system - they are thankfully considering changing it


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 20, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The States use the playoff system to bring in different winners and runners up from multiple groups to find an overall champion 

Their playoffs aren't for sorting out promotion or relegation 

The playoffs for promotion in the FL were brought in to keep the season alive for many clubs and right up until the final day instead of having 3 teams automatically promoted - I believe they work and certainly keep things interesting 

What it appears they are doing in Scotland is a promotion or relegation play off - the team that finishes bottom 3 I think it is will then Face a team from the 1st division to decide who gets a spot in the prem 

I believe those systems are not fair - if you don't win enough games to stay in the division then you shouldn't get another wild card chance to stay up 

The hockey leagues do and whilst it brings a bit of money and excitement in so far it has seen teams win their league and not lose a match to not being promoted via a playoff system - they are thankfully considering changing it
		
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Don;t forget that the Scottish Premiership also has a Top/Bottom 6 split - so teams have plenty of opportunity to save themselves through playing the other five bottom 6 teams.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 20, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Don;t forget that the Scottish Premiership also has a Top/Bottom 6 split - so teams have plenty of opportunity to save themselves through playing the other five bottom 6 teams.
		
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Again that's another stupid system !


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## Doon frae Troon (May 20, 2014)

There was a tremendous dog fight involving all of the bottom six teams in the SPL.
Considering Hearts were doomed [I tell ya, doomed] it makes for an exciting end to the season and I welcome it.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 20, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again that's another stupid system !
		
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Maybe - but also don't forget Scottish football has suffered the trials, tribulations and visitation of Armageddon - following the demise of Glasgow Rangers.  But whatever is in place must have worked as Scottish football is still with us - For evidence see near 50,000 crowd on Saturday for 'diddy' team (St Johnstone) vs 'spiteful' team Dundee Utd (remember Rangers fans boycotted Tannadice as they didn't like what Dundee United said and did when Glasgow Rangers were on the tumble).

And look at the starting 11s on Saturday - the vast majority were Scottish and plenty of youngsters as well.  And that has to be good for the health of the game in Scotland.  A successful Scottish team (and for us success is relative) and you will get more through the gates of the likes of McDiarmid Park - winning the Cup should also help.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 20, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Maybe - but also don't forget Scottish football has suffered the trials, tribulations and visitation of Armageddon - following the demise of Glasgow Rangers.  But whatever is in place must have worked as Scottish football is still with us - For evidence see near 50,000 crowd on Saturday for 'diddy' team (St Johnstone) vs 'spiteful' team Dundee Utd (remember Rangers fans boycotted Tannadice as they didn't like what Dundee United said and did when Glasgow Rangers were on the tumble).

And look at the starting 11s on Saturday - the vast majority were Scottish and plenty of youngsters as well.  And that has to be good for the health of the game in Scotland.  A successful Scottish team (and for us success is relative) and you will get more through the gates of the likes of McDiarmid Park - winning the Cup should also help.
		
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The final was ok - was a bit of passion and fight but the quality was what I would expect. 

Scottish Prem League Football is still with you - it's no longer a two team league it's now just a walk in the park for one.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 20, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The final was ok - was a bit of passion and fight but the quality was what I would expect. 

Scottish Prem League Football is still with you - it's no longer a two team league it's now just a walk in the park for one.
		
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Well it was previously a walk in the park for Celtic and Rangers.  Looking at the league as an outsider you may not be interested in watching a one horse race - but from the inside it is in may ways much more interesting.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 20, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well it was previously a walk in the park for Celtic and Rangers.  Looking at the league as an outsider you may not be interested in watching a one horse race - but from the inside it is in may ways much more interesting.
		
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How can a league be interesting when the winner is known before a ball is kicked ? 

It can only be interesting for teams fighting out for minor places - that's not healthy for a league.


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## gdunc79 (May 20, 2014)

Exactly - great post.

*referring to SwingsItLikeHogan's last post


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## c1973 (May 20, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Maybe - but also don't forget Scottish football has suffered the trials, tribulations and visitation of Armageddon - following the demise of Glasgow Rangers.  But whatever is in place must have worked as Scottish football is still with us - For evidence see near 50,000 crowd on Saturday for 'diddy' team (St Johnstone) vs 'spiteful' team Dundee Utd (remember Rangers fans boycotted Tannadice as they didn't like what Dundee United said and did when Glasgow Rangers were on the tumble).

And look at the starting 11s on Saturday - the vast majority were Scottish and plenty of youngsters as well.  And that has to be good for the health of the game in Scotland.  A successful Scottish team (and for us success is relative) and you will get more through the gates of the likes of McDiarmid Park - winning the Cup should also help.
		
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Gawd, can ye not celebrate the greatest day in yer clubs history without a pop at Rangers? Lol

Rangers fans did not boycott Tannadump for the reason you claim. Yet more nonsense perpetuately repeated as fact I'm afraid. Usually by supporters of other clubs I might add.   #*itsallabouttheRangers* 
Rightly or wrongly (depending on your own moral compass I suppose), in the eyes of the support the boycott was to do with a previous cup tie that was abandoned.

Anyhow, I won't get into that too much as the spite and (it has to be said) outright hatred shown towards my club up here genuinely turns my stomach at times. 
(Not directed at yourself btw, just in general).


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## gdunc79 (May 20, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How can a league be interesting when the winner is known before a ball is kicked ? 

It can only be interesting for teams fighting out for minor places - that's not healthy for a league.
		
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Ask any Scottish footbal fan that does not support Rangers or Celtic and you will likely hear the same answer - the last 3 years have been a breath of fresh air for the "diddy" teams and the SPFL has been much improved. These teams clearly understand they have no chance of winning the league but the likes of Motherwell, Aberdeen and St Johnstone have found themselves enjoying memorable European and domestic cup runs (as well as battling for 2nd place in the league which was previously out of sight), the likes of which were previously rarer than sightings of the Pope in Govan. Fans of these teams will think the current situation is healthier than the past (and more than likely, the future too).

Not much variety in EPL winners either...only once in the last 8 years has it left Manchester, which I'm sure you are well aware of


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## Liverpoolphil (May 20, 2014)

gdunc79 said:



			Ask any Scottish footbal fan that does not support Rangers or Celtic and you will likely hear the same answer - the last 3 years have been a breath of fresh air for the "diddy" teams and the SPFL has been much improved. These teams clearly understand they have no chance of winning the league but the likes of Motherwell, Aberdeen and St Johnstone have found themselves enjoying memorable European and domestic cup runs (as well as battling for 2nd place in the league which was previously out of sight), the likes of which were previously rarer than sightings of the Pope in Govan. Fans of these teams will think the current situation is healthier than the past (and more than likely, the future too).

Not much variety in EPL winners either...only once in the last 8 years has it left Manchester, which I'm sure you are well aware of 

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Certainly a lot more variety in the EPL than the SPL - only 2 different winners of the SPL since 1985 and that won't change for a long time. 

With the lack of competition for Celtic in the SPL it won't be healthy to help Celtic Europe which will effect Co efficient and the amount of places available in Europe 

What memorable European Runs have there been ? A few teams get through final qualifying into the group stages ? 

Telly companies wont want to pay too much money for a league already won before the first ball is kicked. 

The SPL is now around League 1 level - got to be careful it doesn't keep dropping.


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## c1973 (May 20, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How can a league be interesting when the winner is known before a ball is kicked ? 

It can only be interesting for teams fighting out for minor places - that's not healthy for a league.
		
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The only interesting thing in Scottish top flight football are; 

1) Who finishes in top 6, (possibility of an extra 'big gate' against (for the moment Celtic) and Rangers (when back at the top table).
2) Who gets pumped out in the first round of Europe next year by finishing as close to Celtic (for the moment) as possible.
3) Who gets relegated (even that was guaranteed this year).

And they wonder why no one would sponsor them...........

No amount of dressing it up can disguise a very poor product and it has been pretty poor for a while now. Sure, you can get exciting 'blood and snotters' games, but you can get that kind of excitement watching amateur football for free.

Imo what is wrong is the fans acceptance of mediocrity and I believe this (in part) stems from the Tranny Army...sorry Tartan Army  'celebrating' defeat in water fountains and town squares the world over. Defeat and constant disappointment should have the fans screaming for change and more importantly getting it!  Most fans when asked wanted bigger leagues playing each other twice a year, did they get it? No!  And that's just one example.

I feel sorry for the punters who pay good money to watch a very poor product with very little difference from the season before (1 new team usually), again one of the reasons I stopped going. Scotland would possibly benefit from the pyramid system in place in other countries ( cue the usual suspects with snidey comments about (the) Rangers and Sunday league football). It's a poor product and unfortunately won't improve anytime soon I don't think.


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## Doon frae Troon (May 20, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How can a league be interesting when the winner is known before a ball is kicked ? 

It can only be interesting for teams fighting out for minor places - that's not healthy for a league.
		
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Until a couple of years ago the EPL was a three club race. Did not seem to do them any harm.

Like many of my countrymen I like seeing a team of young Scottish players playing in their own league.
If I watched a Finnish league game and the players were all foreign carpet baggers I would be disappointed.
There is a sense of pride in watching your team and your country.


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## gdunc79 (May 20, 2014)

c1973 said:



			The only interesting thing in Scottish top flight football are; 

1) Who finishes in top 6, (possibility of an extra 'big gate' against (for the moment Celtic) and Rangers (when back at the top table).
2) Who gets pumped out in the first round of Europe next year by finishing as close to Celtic (for the moment) as possible.
3) Who gets relegated (even that was guaranteed this year).

And they wonder why no one would sponsor them...........

No amount of dressing it up can disguise a very poor product and it has been pretty poor for a while now. Sure, you can get exciting 'blood and snotters' games, but you can get that kind of excitement watching amateur football for free.

Imo what is wrong is the fans acceptance of mediocrity and I believe this (in part) stems from the Tranny Army...sorry Tartan Army  'celebrating' defeat in water fountains and town squares the world over. Defeat and constant disappointment should have the fans screaming for change and more importantly getting it! Most fans when asked wanted bigger leagues playing each other twice a year, did they get it? No! And that's just one example.

I feel sorry for the punters who pay good money to watch a very poor product with very little difference from the season before (1 new team usually), again one of the reasons I stopped going. Scotland would possibly benefit from the pyramid system in place in other countries ( cue the usual suspects with snidey comments about (the) Rangers and Sunday league football). It's a poor product and unfortunately won't improve anytime soon I don't think.
		
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Not an unpredicatble post given where your loyalties lie.......

1) I think Motherwell and Aberdeen fans would argue the race for 2nd place was worth playing for
2) You may take getting pumped out of Europe for granted (well perhaps not these days...) but for fans of other clubs who don't get the opporunity to follow their team to the likes of Turkey and Norway as St Johnstone fans have done in the last 2 seasons it has been a fantastic experience for them
3) Hibs along with Hearts may still get relegated - I'm sure you predicted that at the start of this season 

I would love to see Rangers and Celtic leave and go to England a la Swansea and Cardiff for many reasons. Don't try and tell me it would be "Armageddon" if this happended - SPFL doesn't have a sponsor at the moment so wouldn't be much change there and 3 or 4 visits of 5000 Old Firm fans per season would be outweighed by the additional fans who would be back every week to see their teams who would then have an opportunity to win the league.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 20, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Until a couple of years ago the EPL was a three club race. Did not seem to do them any harm.

Like many of my countrymen I like seeing a team of young Scottish players playing in their own league.
If I watched a Finnish league game and the players were all foreign carpet baggers I would be disappointed.
There is a sense of pride in watching your team and your country.
		
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Even a three horse race is better than a one horse race 

And even then the other top clubs in the prem where still challenging in Europe 

Not one single Scottish Club reached the group stages of the Europa - they have a co efficient lower than Cyprus and unless they improve performances in Europe they will start to lose places in Europa and the ones in it will have to start at the same level as the Welsh clubs. 

Who are "carpet baggers" ?! 

You will have to stick with the young Scottish lads - because the top players won't want to play in such a non competitive league and teams that don't compete on foreign soil.


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## c1973 (May 20, 2014)

gdunc79 said:



			Not an unpredicatble post given where your loyalties lie.......

1) I think Motherwell and Aberdeen fans would argue the race for 2nd place was worth playing for
2) You may take getting pumped out of Europe for granted (well perhaps not these days...) but for fans of other clubs who don't get the opporunity to follow their team to the likes of Turkey and Norway as St Johnstone fans have done in the last 2 seasons it has been a fantastic experience for them
3) Hibs along with Hearts may still get relegated - I'm sure you predicted that at the start of this season 

I would love to see Rangers and Celtic leave and go to England a la Swansea and Cardiff for many reasons. Don't try and tell me it would be "Armageddon" if this happended - SPFL doesn't have a sponsor at the moment so wouldn't be much change there and 3 or 4 visits of 5000 Old Firm fans per season would be outweighed by the additional fans who would be back every week to see their teams who would then have an opportunity to win the league.
		
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It may come as a surprise to you but I did predict those two would go down, well, in truth it was two of three I predicted, Killie being the other, so I wasn't far off the mark. 

I've never predicted Armageddon for Scottish Football, but I take your point that some folks did. 

I never took getting pumped out of Europe for granted, I hated it when it happened but enjoyed the most recent final we got to and a few decent runs as well. 

Playing for 2nd place is a joke! If you're not in the comp to win it.... well.....

I'm not sure Scottish football would benefit from Rangers n Celtic being elsewhere. It might but I don't believe there would be as big an upturn in new supporters as you possibly do. 

None of this addresses the fact it's a piss poor product or how it could be improved though. Taking away your 2 biggest, nay, ONLY assets certainly isn't the long term answer though!


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## Dodger (May 20, 2014)

Are Sevco deed again yet?

My jelly and ice cream is awaiting this joyous day.It was fun the last time around but this would bring the house down if it were to happen again.

Well done to St Johnstone.Beating a team that the writers up here were falling over themselves to big up around Christmas.

Mind you those same scribes told us that the world would end when Sevco died.


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## JCW (May 21, 2014)

For me it will be Like playing golf on a bad winter`s day and a fine summer`s day , big gap ...............................EYG


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## Adi2Dassler (May 21, 2014)

Off to Hamilton tonight to watch the 1st leg and cautiously confident, Thomson is back and Robertson has another game under his belt.Scotland isn't the player he was and Curier was poor at Hibs, as was Canning.Might be a draw tonight with a result at ER on Sunday.

And lets face it, if we can't beat Hamilton over 180 minutes, we get what we deserve.

And congrats to St.Johnstone...never really cared who won at the weekend, as they're two of the few teams in Scotland I feel indifferent towards (As opposed to raging hatred) Was good to see SPoony play well and lift the cup, after years of being treated like crap at Hibs, was delighted for him.

Stevie May,though, get a haircut lad.


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## Doon frae Troon (May 21, 2014)

Good luck on the synthetic pitch!
Hope you stay up, that's tough for a Jambo to stay.

I like Terry Butcher and I think he is a good long term manager.


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## Adi2Dassler (May 21, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Good luck on the synthetic pitch!
Hope you stay up, that's tough for a Jambo to stay.

I like Terry Butcher and I think he is a good long term manager.
		
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They've been training at Spartans all week on their synth pitch...even though we have our own at Ormiston.Dunno the reasons.

I too used to think Butcher was a good long term appointment, but doubts have crept in over the last month or so.


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## Slab (May 21, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Good luck on the synthetic pitch!
Hope you stay up, that's tough for a Jambo to stay.

I like Terry Butcher and I think he is a good long term manager.
		
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Not sure this Jambo would agree, I think it would be a great contest for tier 2 to have Hearts, Hibs, Falkirk, New Rangers, Raith etc Shame Dunfermline couldn't make the Party (see what I did there)

Anyway I think Hamilton by finishing 2nd and then winning the championship playoff have already earned a spot in SPL for next season



Oh and Phil the SPL has been a one horse race with the winners known before a ball is kicked for decades. To most (out with old firm fans) Celtic and the old Rangers were/are one in the same and one entity, the league would be won by the old firm, the big difference now is they don't take up two spots in the league table to do it and a 2nd team can be runners up 
_(I hear being runners up in the league is still seen as having a very good season!) _


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## Slab (May 21, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



*They've been training at Spartans all week on their synth pitch...even though we have our own at Ormiston.Dunno the reasons*.

I too used to think Butcher was a good long term appointment, but doubts have crept in over the last month or so.
		
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Different material I understand & the Spartans pitch matches Hamilton's


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## Doon frae Troon (May 21, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who are "carpet baggers" ?! 

You will have to stick with the young Scottish lads - because the top players won't want to play in such a non competitive league and teams that don't compete on foreign soil.
		
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Carpet Baggers were 1920's 'snake oil ' salesmen who carried their goods in a bag made of carpet.
They sold their dodgy goods in one town one day and them moved on to the next town before they were seen as con men.

Re. last para. 
I am more than content with that.
I think many Scots fans excepting the former Ugly Sisters would be to.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 21, 2014)

gdunc79 said:



			Not an unpredicatble post given where your loyalties lie.......

2) You may take getting pumped out of Europe for granted (well perhaps not these days...) but for fans of other clubs who don't get the opporunity to follow their team to the likes of Turkey and Norway as St Johnstone fans have done in the last 2 seasons it has been a fantastic experience for them
		
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And what is nice about this is that the supporters of St Johnstone and the Turkish club *Eskisehirspor* now have a good and friendly relationship - link below to the Eskisehirspor club website and if you look you'll see they have our victory on their home page and in the news ticker.  That's why playing in Europe matters to a club like St Johnstone.  Friendship and ambassadors for Scotland.

http://www.eskisehirspor.org/


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 21, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Off to Hamilton tonight to watch the 1st leg and cautiously confident, Thomson is back and Robertson has another game under his belt.Scotland isn't the player he was and Curier was poor at Hibs, as was Canning.Might be a draw tonight with a result at ER on Sunday.

And lets face it, if we can't beat Hamilton over 180 minutes, we get what we deserve.

And congrats to St.Johnstone...never really cared who won at the weekend, as they're two of the few teams in Scotland I feel indifferent towards (As opposed to raging hatred) Was good to see SPoony play well and lift the cup, after years of being treated like crap at Hibs, was delighted for him.

Stevie May,though, get a haircut lad.
		
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Good luck against Accies tonight - I'm pretty sure you won't suffer the fate of Morton of a few weeks ago.  As much as I'd like Hibees to be causing Rangers a bit of heartache in the Championship next season - I actually don't think it would be great losing you.

And he had his hair cut a week or two back - it was longer


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## CMAC (Jun 10, 2014)

I'm missing the EPL games on TV- at least I'll have England to cheer on at the world cup


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 14, 2014)

Good win for Dundee against the EPL Champions last night.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 14, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Good win for Dundee against the EPL Champions last night.
		
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:rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 14, 2014)

http://www.mcfc.co.uk/News/Match-reports/2014/July/Dundee-v-City

There is the 'edited' version for you non believers.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 14, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



http://www.mcfc.co.uk/News/Match-reports/2014/July/Dundee-v-City

There is the 'edited' version for you non believers.
		
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It pre season for goodness sake :rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 14, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It pre season for goodness sake :rofl:
		
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I know, City were not really trying to win and Dundee played a couple of trialists.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 14, 2014)

Apologies for posting this on the wrong thread.

Looking at the team names of both sides it should have been a Scotland v Rest of the World thread.


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## Cityfanbrian (Jul 14, 2014)

Devastated to have lost this one!


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 14, 2014)

Cityfanbrian said:



			Devastated to have lost this one!
		
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Does that make Dundee the British Champions now ?

Really tough game upcoming against Hearts.
Hope you can get your act together and give them a decent game for the fans to watch.


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## Cityfanbrian (Jul 14, 2014)

Never worried about friendly results, these games are to attain fitness ,unfortunately when a smaller club especially a Scottish one wins one they think they've won the World Cup, like they did in '67 when they beat England lol


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 14, 2014)

Blah Blah Blah Blah.........a defeat is still a defeat.


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## Foxholer (Jul 14, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Does that make Dundee the British Champions now ?
		
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Only until September 18th? 

Seems like the way Aussie bands treated tours to NZ early in their careers - a chance to get organised/learn the patterns, but no matter if they screwed up! 

I know a couple of the MUFC management are keen golfers too, so Dundee (Carnoustie/St Andrews) and Edinburgh (Muirfield, Rennaisance, Archerfield) would be convenient venues - even at their jet in/out levels!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 14, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Blah Blah Blah Blah.........a defeat is still a defeat.
		
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Its meaningless if its a friendly


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## Cityfanbrian (Jul 14, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Blah Blah Blah Blah.........a defeat is still a defeat.
		
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suppose see it's better than last year when we lost to Supersport United & Amazulu, both in South Africa !!


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## stevek1969 (Jul 14, 2014)

Does it matter if its a pre season or not Man City had millions of pounds of talent (say that loosely ) and Dundee have just been promoted so a great win for Dundee and a confidence booster for the season a head.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 14, 2014)

stevek1969 said:



			Does it matter if its a pre season or not Man City had millions of pounds of talent (say that loosely ) and Dundee have just been promoted so a great win for Dundee and a confidence booster for the season a head.
		
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Of course it matters - the Man City players havent played for a good couple of months and its being used purely as a fitness exercise. Pre season games this early shouldnt be used as false promises.


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## stevek1969 (Jul 14, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Of course it matters - the Man City players havent played for a good couple of months and its being used purely as a fitness exercise. Pre season games this early shouldnt be used as false promises.
		
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Dundee haven't played either for a good while, not a false don but a major confidence boost after being promoted .


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 14, 2014)

stevek1969 said:



			Dundee haven't played either for a good while, not a false don but a major confidence boost after being promoted .
		
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Havent Dundee been back to pre season training for a good couple of weeks as opposed to days for Man City - its a fitness kickabout at the end of the day.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 14, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Its meaningless if its a friendly
		
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And so the result of the Scotland v England friendly on 18th November will be meaningless and neither side or set of supporters will make anything of it - yeh right.  C'mon Chesney - let's show the English how a team plays football (said with fingers crossed).  

Of course there will be no shame for England getting humped since by then Scotland will have beaten Germany in the Euro 2016 qualifier will therefore be World Champs


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## Foxholer (Jul 14, 2014)

Dundee made 10 subs at various times and MUFC replaced 9 for the 2nd half.

Seems like a 'bounce' game to me - certainly a 'non-qualifier'!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 14, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And so the result of the Scotland v England friendly on 18th November will be meaningless and neither side or set of supporters will make anything of it - yeh right.  C'mon Chesney - let's show the English how a team plays football (said with fingers crossed).  

Of course there will be no shame for England getting humped since by then Scotland will have beaten Germany in the Euro 2016 qualifier will therefore be World Champs 

Click to expand...

yes its a friendly hence "meaningless"


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			yes its a friendly hence "meaningless"
		
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Please don't be disingenuous as you know fine well that it is not meaningless in the minds of supporters and the teams and managers &#128512;


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Its meaningless if its a friendly
		
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They still lost though.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Please don't be disingenuous as you know fine well that it is not meaningless in the minds of supporters and the teams and managers &#128512;
		
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If you want to celebrate a friendly then away you go but when it will only mean something worthwhile on the pitch when it is for competitive reasons like the Euro Playoff when England beat Scotland. 

It's a friendly to create interest , money , rivalry and to give players international experience before Euro qualifiers start. The result maybe used for bragging rights but that's it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 15, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			They still lost though.
		
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So what ? Means nothing doesn't effect one single competitive competition - it doesn't mean anything for either club but to gain match fitness in prep for the forthcoming season


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 15, 2014)

Seems to be a great deal of squirming going on here.

What if Man C won 10-0. 
Loads of English footy fans would have been on here slating our diddy league.

I had better be careful as the play Hearts on Friday, mind you they are a second tier team now


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So what ? Means nothing doesn't effect one single competitive competition - it doesn't mean anything for either club but to gain match fitness in prep for the forthcoming season
		
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They still lost though.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 15, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Seems to be a great deal of squirming going on here.

What if Man C won 10-0. 
Loads of English footy fans would have been on here slating our diddy league.

I had better be careful as the play Hearts on Friday, mind you they are a second tier team now

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And if City had won ten nil the response would have been the same - so what , it's a meaningless friendly purely used for fitness 

It appears you are trying to suggest it's something else

It appears only you knew it was going on so no English fans would have been on here proclaiming anything 

Are you really trying to justify the state of Scottish league football by using a friendly match result ? 

If it was a competitive game when the result mattered then you can celebrate it


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## Adi2Dassler (Jul 15, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Only until September 18th? 

Seems like the way Aussie bands treated tours to NZ early in their careers - a chance to get organised/learn the patterns, but no matter if they screwed up! 

I know a couple of the MUFC management are keen golfers too, so Dundee (Carnoustie/St Andrews) and Edinburgh (Muirfield, Rennaisance, Archerfield) would be convenient venues - even at their jet in/out levels!
		
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MCFC surely?

Kidd/Pellegrini and the Spanish Chief Exec were at Archerfield yesterday at the quite amazing Nike Oven...the only one of it's kind in the world.Rory was there last week opening it.The owner wasn't best pleased when I said I thought it looked like a fire station.A hasty retreat was beaten.


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## chris661 (Jul 15, 2014)

Do you know LiverpooloPhil thinks it is a meaningless friendly 

Give it a resat mate there is no need to keep going on and on and on and on repeating the same thing we get it.


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## Dodger (Jul 15, 2014)

Can'y believe some are trying to use a friendly win for a bit of point scoring.

Meaningless result.Totally meaningless.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 15, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Do you know LiverpooloPhil thinks it is a meaningless friendly 

Give it a resat mate there is no need to keep going on and on and on and on repeating the same thing* we get it.*

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Not everyone :thup:


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## chris661 (Jul 15, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Can'y believe some are trying to use a friendly win for a bit of point scoring.

Meaningless result.Totally meaningless.
		
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No it isn't. It means Dundee are the best team in the England :rofl:


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Please don't be disingenuous as you know fine well that it is not meaningless in the minds of supporters and the teams and managers &#62976;
		
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Do you seriously believe Man City's supporters give a toss about a training exercise?

If you do then I think you must accept that you are the one who is being disingenuous.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 15, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Do you seriously believe Man City's supporters give a toss about a training exercise?
		
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Probably not - I wasn't talking about the MCFC v Scumdee  match - I was talking about the Scotland vs England friendly in November.  A training exercise you think.

For a supporter of a Scottish club any match against potentially far superior opposition is not meaningless - it helps likes of Dundee assess where they are themselves.  If MCFC did it for a bit of fun then that's up to them.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 15, 2014)

chris661 said:



			No it isn't. It means Dundee are the best team in the England :rofl: 

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...and since they are only the third best team on Tayside...


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Probably not - I wasn't talking about the MCFC v Scumdee  match - I was talking about the Scotland vs England friendly in November.  A training exercise you think.

For a supporter of a Scottish club any match against potentially far superior opposition is not meaningless - it helps likes of Dundee assess where they are themselves.  If MCFC did it for a bit of fun then that's up to them.
		
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Any friendly is essentially a training exercise, otherwise strongest sides would always be picked and six or seven substitutions would not be made.

Certainly the new World Champions have a history of not being greatly bothered by the results of friendly games, seeing them as a means of looking at fringe players and introducing them to the manager's methods.

For England a friendly against Scotland is of no more importance than a friendly against, say, Norway. 

It should be viewed only as an opportunity for players to develop in readiness for qualification games for the next European Championship.

Sadly the days of regular competitive football between the Home Nations have long since gone


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 15, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Any friendly is essentially a training exercise, otherwise strongest sides would always be picked and six or seven substitutions would not be made.

Certainly the new World Champions have a history of not being greatly bothered by the results of friendly games, seeing them as a means of looking at fringe players and introducing them to the manager's methods.

For England a friendly against Scotland is of no more importance than a friendly against, say, Norway. 

It should be viewed only as an opportunity for players to develop in readiness for qualification games for the next European Championship.

Sadly the days of regular competitive football between the Home Nations have long since gone
		
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Well I hope that your boys are ready and prepared for a friendly 'after you' jog in the park with the Scottish lads.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well I hope that your boys are ready and prepared for a friendly 'after you' jog in the park with the Scottish lads.
		
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Well if spirit and being fired up for matches was of any great importance then Brazil would have won the World Cup at a canter.

Speaking only for myself I will give the forthcoming game the same amount of attention I would any other friendly i.e. very little. Rarely bother watching non-competitive games at either club or national level, they are just an opportunity to part fans from their cash and do nothing for me.

Good luck to you though as the match is clearly important to you. Before you ask I am not getting excuses in beforehand as I am sure that over the intervening and following weeks there will be a number of threads on the subject but rest assured I will not be involved, really not interested.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 15, 2014)

Ok - fair enough - in a thread titled *Scottish vs English football* there are some contributors to the thread who don't give a jot about the outcome of a Scotland vs England football match.  Which is interesting as the times are rare when any team representing Scottish football actually plays a team representing English football - so we have some evidence rather than the 100% conjecture we have the rest of the time.  But it's a friendly so irrelevant.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Ok - fair enough - in a thread titled *Scottish vs English football* there are some contributors to the thread who don't give a jot about the outcome of a Scotland vs England football match.  Which is interesting as the times are rare when any team representing Scottish football actually plays a team representing English football - so we have some evidence rather than the 100% conjecture we have the rest of the time.  But it's a friendly so irrelevant.
		
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Oh dear Hogan, that's poked the wasps nest.

So what you are saying is that if Scotland win 2-0 we will get exactly the same replies from south of the border as when Dundee beat The EPL Champions by the same score.

Aye right!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 15, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Oh dear Hogan, that's poked the wasps nest.

So what you are saying is that if Scotland win 2-0 we will get exactly the same replies from south of the border as when Dundee beat The EPL Champions by the same score.

Aye right!
		
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Can only speak for myself.

See Post #410, I would not envisage even watching the game. It is an irrelevance.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 15, 2014)

I wonder what the odds are on Hodgson being sacked if Scotland win.

Only a friendly!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 15, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I wonder what the odds are on Hodgson being sacked if Scotland win.

Only a friendly!
		
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Does it lead to qualification for the Euros or World Cup?

No, therefore, it is a meaningless irrelevance. 

Do you actually watch matches that have nothing but so called "bragging rights" at stake. How strange!


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 15, 2014)

Isn't that not a bit like saying you could not care less about winning the bounce game against your friends as you are only interested in winning the club championship.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 15, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Isn't that not a bit like saying you could not care less about winning the bounce game against your friends as you are only interested in winning the club championship.
		
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Are you serious? 

Of course I would care, there's money on it!

Re: the football I am genuinely not being obtuse. I honestly could not tell you the last time I watched a friendly on TV and I most definitely would not go and watch it live.

Friendlies are merely training exercises for me and would be best played behind closed doors.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 15, 2014)

We tend to treat friendlies against English side a bit differently, a lot more passion in the game.
Only chance we can pit our skills against the best players in the world.

Hearts v Barcelona a few years ago saw nearly 60,000 turn up at Murrayfield to watch a pre season warm up.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 15, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			We tend to treat friendlies against English side a bit differently, a lot more passion in the game.
Only chance we can pit our skills against the best players in the world.

Hearts v Barcelona a few years ago saw nearly 60,000 turn up at Murrayfield to watch a pre season warm up.
		
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They turned up to watch Barcelona the best club side in the world . But its still a meaningless friendly


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They turned up to watch Barcelona the best club side in the world . But its still a meaningless friendly
		
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I'm wondering whether England friendlies being so meaningless is a view held by supporters of clubs outside of the EPL


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I'm wondering whether England friendlies being so meaningless is a view held by supporters of clubs outside of the EPL
		
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i beleiev as Metal Mickie is a Brum fan he has answered your question


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I'm wondering whether England friendlies being so meaningless is a view held by supporters of clubs outside of the EPL
		
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I would be more inclined to watch Burton Albion v Cheltenham Town in League 2 than an England friendly. The former is competitive the latter is................nwell it's not for me.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			i beleiev as Metal Mickie is a Brum fan he has answered your question
		
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I still think they're important. I'd much rather watch us play Brazil in a friendly than against San Marino. 

If friendliest had no significance they wouldn't be played at all. 

I agree re op that city won't really care about losing this friendly. But I also belive that any player playing for England in a friendly will care as it's a chance to cement a place in the full team. As a saints fan, a lot of our (now ex) players hadn't to perform in said friendliest to earna place in Brazil.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 15, 2014)

This obsession on the part of the media with friendlies hinders any little chance we have of developing the national side.

Managers have been reluctant to experiment with either players or formations for fear of losing and then being pilloried in the press. Thus we end up with more of the same old safety first tactics and reliance upon older players thereby hampering the emergence of new talent.

Compare this with Germany where results in friendlies do not appear to matter in the same way. Hence six of their 2009 Under 21 team appeared in the World Cup final. The team that they beat in 2009, England, had only one player through to their 2014 WC squad.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 15, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			This obsession on the part of the media with friendlies hinders any little chance we have of developing the national side.

Managers have been reluctant to experiment with either players or formations for fear of losing and then being pilloried in the press. Thus we end up with more of the same old safety first tactics and reliance upon older players thereby hampering the emergence of new talent.

Compare this with Germany where results in friendlies do not appear to matter in the same way. Hence six of their 2009 Under 21 team appeared in the World Cup final. The team that they beat in 2009, England, had only one player through to their 2014 WC squad.
		
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Whikst that may have a factor. Simply giving youngsters a chance doesn't guarantee success. 
I don't think there were too many youngsters that were worthy of a place at this World Cup. Our players just aren't good eniugh.


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## Dodger (Jul 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I'm wondering whether England friendlies being so meaningless is a view held by supporters of clubs outside of the EPL
		
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The SFA obviously don't think so...thieving bas..........


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 15, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Whikst that may have a factor. Simply giving youngsters a chance doesn't guarantee success. 
I don't think there were too many youngsters that were worthy of a place at this World Cup. Our players just aren't good eniugh.
		
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I certainly agree that, regardless of age, our players are not good enough. Poor coaching from primary school onward does not help, everybody fixated on results in two-bob leagues and tournaments and little focus on improving skills.

However, youngsters need to be given their opportunities if the manager is to learn anything. Sticking with older players has not exactly proved successful over the last 40 odd years.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 15, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			I certainly agree that, regardless of age, our players are not good enough. Poor coaching from primary school onward does not help, everybody fixated on results in two-bob leagues and tournaments and little focus on improving skills.

However, youngsters need to be given their opportunities if the manager is to learn anything. Sticking with older players has not exactly proved successful over the last 40 odd years.
		
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I agree, but I actually think as much as certain fans don't like him. Hodgson was far more open to playing the youngsters than anyone since Peter Taylor.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 16, 2014)

Watched snippets of last nights Celtic game.

Celtic played some tidy football.


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## chris661 (Jul 16, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Watched snippets of last nights Celtic game.

Celtic played some tidy football.
		
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You watched a different game to me then. I thought they were honking.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 16, 2014)

chris661 said:



			You watched a different game to me then. I thought they were honking.
		
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DfT was watching Scottish football you were expecting English


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## Dodger (Jul 16, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Watched snippets of last nights Celtic game.

Celtic played some tidy football.
		
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Put those herbal tea's away Doon we were dreadful against a team that Berwick Rangers could have put away. No quality up top at all.still. A decent striker and it would have been a mauling.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 16, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Put those herbal tea's away Doon we were dreadful against a team that Berwick Rangers could have put away. No quality up top at all.still. A decent striker and it would have been a mauling.
		
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I think Miroslav Klose could be looking for a new challenge now that he has won the WC and WC top scorer of all time.


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## fundy (Jul 16, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I still think they're important. I'd much rather watch us play Brazil in a friendly than against San Marino. 

*If friendliest had no significance they wouldn't be played at all.* 

I agree re op that city won't really care about losing this friendly. But I also belive that any player playing for England in a friendly will care as it's a chance to cement a place in the full team. As a saints fan, a lot of our (now ex) players hadn't to perform in said friendliest to earna place in Brazil.
		
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You mean they are played for a reason other than to swell the relevant FAs coffers currently?


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## JCW (Jul 16, 2014)

Its like the spainish league , Barcelona or Real Madrid , Scotland its Rangers or Celtic , now its just celtic , Dutch League , Ajax ,and ? , German League , Bayen M and Dortmond , Italy is Juve and who , at least the Premire league has Arsenal , Chelsea , Liverpool , Man City , Man Utd , with spurs & Everton close by , its by far more interesting ...............................


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 16, 2014)

JCW said:



			Its like the spainish league , Barcelona or Real Madrid , Scotland its Rangers or Celtic , now its just celtic , Dutch League , Ajax ,and ? , German League , Bayen M and Dortmond , Italy is Juve and who , at least the Premire league has Arsenal , Chelsea , Liverpool , Man City , Man Utd , with spurs & Everton close by , its by far more interesting ...............................
		
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The Rangers fan I know already looking forward to European footie next season after they winvthe Scottish Cup this coming season - and next season - battling with Celtic for Scottish football top dog.  Ach well - it's been good whilst they've been away


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 16, 2014)

JCW said:



			Its like *the spainish league , Barcelona or Real Madrid* , Scotland its Rangers or Celtic , now its just celtic , Dutch League , Ajax ,and ? , German League , Bayen M and Dortmond , Italy is Juve and who , at least the Premire league has Arsenal , Chelsea , Liverpool , Man City , Man Utd , with spurs & Everton close by , its by far more interesting ...............................
		
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Hmm... and which of these are the current Spanish champions?


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## JCW (Jul 16, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Hmm... and which of these are the current Spanish champions?
		
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They wont be there next year as Villa is gone and costa also .......................


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 17, 2014)

Well the 2014 Scottish Cup Winners (that's for DfT ) are in Lucerne for this evenings Europa League qualifying round - against FC Luzerne as you might guess.  Come of Saints   Back to McDiarmid with a win would be nice.  A few good results and we might find ourselves in a group with an English club - then we'll see...


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## shewy (Jul 17, 2014)

bet they get pumped COYR


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 17, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well the 2014 Scottish Cup Winners (that's for DfT ) are in Lucerne for this evenings Europa League qualifying round - against FC Luzerne as you might guess.  Come of Saints   Back to McDiarmid with a win would be nice.  A few good results and we might find ourselves in a group with an English club - then we'll see...
		
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Be OK if it was Man City though, the Dundee guys say they were a pushover.


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## NWJocko (Jul 17, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well the 2014 Scottish Cup Winners (that's for DfT ) are in Lucerne for this evenings Europa League qualifying round - against FC Luzerne as you might guess.  Come of Saints   Back to McDiarmid with a win would be nice.  A few good results and we might find ourselves in a group with an English club - then we'll see...
		
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I hope St Johnstone make it through, be good for them to have a wee run.

If they get in a group with an English team they will, however, get humped. Properly humped.

Scottish football is appalling sadly.


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## davidy233 (Jul 18, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Be OK if it was Man City though, the Dundee guys say they were a pushover.
		
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Judging from one of my photos the Man City players were busy doing something other than playing football when we hammered them last week 



PS: friendly results don't matter a damn - we were much fitter than City, we've been back since the second week in June and look the fittest I've ever seen at this stage of pre-season - City had been back for ten days - was shocked at how out of condition Nasri looked though - he obviously had a good summer.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 18, 2014)

Good result for the Saints, not so good for Motherwell and Aberdeen.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 18, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Good result for the Saints, not so good for Motherwell and Aberdeen.
		
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Aye - 1-1 away from home in Europe is never a bad result.  Looking forward to a good crowd next week for return leg.  Would be great if we could get up towards 7-8,000


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 18, 2014)

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/footbal...ive-commentary-hearts-vs-man-city_165694.html

Well done Man City, good recovery.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 19, 2014)

QoS v Rotherham today.

Should be close.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 19, 2014)

5-1 to Queen of the South, not close at all.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2014)

Looks like going to need a hell of a turn around from Celtic to have a scottish team in the CL proper this season

Beaten soundly by Legia Warsaw 4-1


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looks like going to need a hell of a turn around from Celtic to have a scottish team in the CL proper this season

Beaten soundly by Legia Warsaw 4-1
		
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Disappointing result.
I quite like the look of their new manager and the squad.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 31, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Disappointing result.
I quite like the look of their new manager and the squad.
		
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I turned radio on and with ten mins to go they were 2-1 down; but commentator said that Cerltic had to try and hang on as Legia would realise that 2-1 was not a brilliant result for them.  And so...4-1 - not good.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 31, 2014)

And hoping for a good result by St Johnstone tonight against Spartak Trnava (3rd in Slovakian League last season)


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## Papas1982 (Jul 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looks like going to need a hell of a turn around from Celtic to have a scottish team in the CL proper this season

Beaten soundly by Legia Warsaw 4-1
		
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hopefully forster will will be confirmed to saints soon. Likely no cl footy


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 31, 2014)

Very bad night for Celtic. It's a shame as they need CL football. I hope they can turn the deficit over and the away goal could be crucial. What happens if they don't win. No European football. Not a good prospect


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## gdunc79 (Jul 31, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And hoping for a good result by St Johnstone tonight against Spartak Trnava (3rd in Slovakian League last season)
		
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I'm leaving shortly for hopefully another famous European evening at McDiarmid Park........only just recovered from the drama of the 5-4 penalty shoot out win a week ago!!! Rumours that Stevie May is injured......although we may just be saving him for the second leg again!!


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## phil78 (Jul 31, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:
			
		


			What happens if they don't win. No European football. Not a good prospect
		
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They drop down into the play off round of the Europa League

Shame Legia missed their penalties


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## chris661 (Jul 31, 2014)

Not an entirely unexpected result. Either ship out the new man or back him and punt players to let him build his own team. Either way it looks highly unlikely there will be any European football.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2014)

With the lack of competition for them in their domestic league they will struggle in the CL

Will stroll to the title but fail to get through the CL qualifying - the standard is only going to drop further


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 31, 2014)

You seem to be forgetting that Dundee are the reigning British Champions.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 1, 2014)

So after last nights results it's looking very likely that Scotland will have no representative teams left in Europe before the season even starts - they have reached the levels of the Welsh and Irish League - will it only get worse ?


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## ger147 (Aug 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So after last nights results it's looking very likely that Scotland will have no representative teams left in Europe before the season even starts - they have reached the levels of the Welsh and Irish League - will it only get worse ?
		
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I very much doubt that Celtic will make the next round of CL qualifiers, but they're not out of Europe if they don't make it.

They drop into the Europa League final qualifying round if they fail to make the final CL qualifier.

But on the general theme, yes it will get worse as Scottish clubs, including Celtic simply cannot compete at the top table of European football due to the huge difference in their income vs what teams from other countries have.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 1, 2014)

ger147 said:



			I very much doubt that Celtic will make the next round of CL qualifiers, but they're not out of Europe if they don't make it.

They drop into the Europa League final qualifying round if they fail to make the final CL qualifier.

But on the general theme, yes it will get worse as you Scottish clubs, including Celtic simply cannot compete at the top table of European football due to the huge difference in their income vs what teams from other countries get.
		
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Is that a by product from the lack of competition for Celtic after Rangers got relegated ? It's pretty much a done deal before hand so it's hard to sell a product to telly companies with so little competition and small quality ? 

Before the Old Firm games alone managed to sell a decent product worth buying for telly companies. 

Increase the competition and standard and the contacts for telly increase possibly ?


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## chris661 (Aug 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is that a by product from the lack of competition for Celtic after Rangers got relegated ? It's pretty much a done deal before hand so it's hard to sell a product to telly companies with so little competition and small quality ? 

Before the Old Firm games alone managed to sell a decent product worth buying for telly companies. 

Increase the competition and standard and the contacts for telly increase possibly ?
		
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Rangers never got relegated.

It has nothing to do with the perceived "quality" that playing against each other brought either. It is all to do with the ludicrous sums of money the "top" teams in Europe get compared to the smaller nations.


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## ger147 (Aug 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is that a by product from the lack of competition for Celtic after Rangers got relegated ? It's pretty much a done deal before hand so it's hard to sell a product to telly companies with so little competition and small quality ? 

Before the Old Firm games alone managed to sell a decent product worth buying for telly companies. 

Increase the competition and standard and the contacts for telly increase possibly ?
		
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No, nothing to do with the Rangers thing. Things have been getting steadily worse for a number of years and both Celtic and Rangers have on occasion managed to punch well above their weight on the European stage but those days are all but over as the gap gets wider and wider year on year.

The Rangers situation is a red herring as far as Scottish clubs in Europe is concerned. The last year Celtic & Rangers were in the SPL together, Celtic got Â£2m from Sky as their share of the TV money. Wayne Rooney earns that every 6-7 weeks.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 1, 2014)

Doesn't that money come from telly companies paying the bigger deals for the better quality football ? 

The telly companies are paying a billion pounds deals for these top leagues for a reason surely ? 

Increase the competition and quality then increase the appeal of the league for players and telly companies and the money follows it - people will pay for a better product


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## ger147 (Aug 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Doesn't that money come from telly companies paying the bigger deals for the better quality football ? 

The telly companies are paying a billion pounds deals for these top leagues for a reason surely ? 

Increase the competition and quality then increase the appeal of the league for players and telly companies and the money follows it - people will pay for a better product
		
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My point was it has nothing to do with the Rangers situation as Scottish clubs already got a pittance compared to the big countries and that gap was getting wider every year.

On top of that, the European system is grossly unfair to the smaller nations as some countries (like England for example) have the team finishing 4th only having to negotiate 1 qualifying round to get into the CL and teams finishing 3rd getting straigh in, where as smaller nations (for example Scotland) have their champions having to negotiate 3 qualifying rounds in their off season.  And if they DO manage to negotiate all 3 rounds and make the CL groups, all UEFA co-efficient points they earned in those matches are scapped and only results in the group stages count towards their co-efficient.

It's all set up so only the big teams from the big leagues make it as that is clearly what UEFA want.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Doesn't that money come from telly companies paying the bigger deals for the better quality football ? 

The telly companies are paying a billion pounds deals for these top leagues for a reason surely ? 

Increase the competition and quality then increase the appeal of the league for players and telly companies and the money follows it - people will pay for a better product
		
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But the point is that the product could not be sold even when Rangers were in the SPL as there is no interest. Just look at matchday attendances.

Sky and BBC have both tried but there is no real interest south of the border in the Old Firm games other than from Scots living in England.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 1, 2014)

Where the Scottish clubs enter the comp and how many places etc is all based on previous performances in the comp - Italy for example lost a place , so have Germany in the past - perform better and the co efficient is better. The tournament is weighted to get the best teams playing in the leagues - of Celtic had one performed to a better level in the past they would,be straight into the groups. 

I believe it's all flowing down from a severe lack of competition in your national league for Celtic - sort out the national league , increase the quality , get the money from the telly deals , get the better players and perform better in Europe and then get a better share of the pot. But until the domestic league is strengthen then things will get worse - Celtic need competition


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 1, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			But the point is that the product could not be sold even when Rangers were in the SPL as there is no interest. Just look at matchday attendances.

Sky and BBC have both tried but there is no real interest south of the border in the Old Firm games other than from Scots living in England.
		
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Then there is only one way it's going - further backwards. 

At least with Rangers in the league there was some sort of competition and the product was actually bought for a fee - and it was bought abroad as well


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 1, 2014)

It will be a retrospective drop for Celtci to be in the Europa cup play offs and no guarantee that they'll get through that although they should. They need to be playing CL to get the recenue and attract players really. Not a good result for the other Scottish sides either. A real shame if no one gets through or it's just Celtic in the Europa league. That said, it ain't over yet with the second leg still to play!


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## ger147 (Aug 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Where the Scottish clubs enter the comp and how many places etc is all based on previous performances in the comp - Italy for example lost a place , so have Germany in the past - perform better and the co efficient is better. The tournament is weighted to get the best teams playing in the leagues - of Celtic had one performed to a better level in the past they would,be straight into the groups. 

I believe it's all flowing down from a severe lack of competition in your national league for Celtic - sort out the national league , increase the quality , get the money from the telly deals , get the better players and perform better in Europe and then get a better share of the pot. But until the domestic league is strengthen then things will get worse - Celtic need competition
		
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The co-efficient thing is simply not the case. If it was, how come Celtic's co-efficient has gone down despite several recent trips to the last 16 of the CL? It should be going up when they succeed but it's actually going down.

The UEFA co-efficient is set up to ensure the majority of the clubs in the CL are from the big nations.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 1, 2014)

ger147 said:



			The co-efficient thing is simply not the case. If it was, how come Celtic's co-efficient has gone down despite several recent trips to the last 16 of the CL? It should be going up when they succeed but it's actually going down.

The UEFA co-efficient is set up to ensure the majority of the clubs in the CL are from the big nations.
		
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They did go up a small percentage when they won and go through to the last 16 - but they also get let down by the other teams and two bad years which they had effect them - one year they got 2 points for one win. It is certainly weighted towards the teams doing well . Rangers in 11/12 got 12 points which helped Scotland get a spot in the group stages - but the results since then from both teams haven't helped.


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## ger147 (Aug 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They did go up a small percentage when they won and go through to the last 16 - but they also get let down by the other teams and two bad years which they had effect them - one year they got 2 points for one win. It is certainly weighted towards the teams doing well . Rangers in 11/12 got 12 points which helped Scotland get a spot in the group stages - but the results since then from both teams haven't helped.
		
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Liverpool are currently 45th on the list and go straight into the CL groups. Celtic are currently 55th on the list and have 3 qualifying rounds in July.

So automatic CL group places has little to do with prior performances. Hopelessly biased against the small nations.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 1, 2014)

ger147 said:



			Liverpool are currently 45th on the list and go straight into the CL groups. Celtic are currently 55th on the list and have 3 qualifying rounds in July.

So automatic CL group places has little to do with prior performances. Hopelessly biased against the small nations.
		
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The automatic places are awarded based on the combined countries co effiecents and are a reward from previous performances by the clubs of that country 

Scotland lost theirs when Rangers dropped out of Europe and no one could replace them in terms of performance levels.


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## ger147 (Aug 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The automatic places are awarded based on the combined countries co effiecents and are a reward from previous performances by the clubs of that country Scotland lost theirs when Rangers dropped out of Europe and no one could replace them in terms of performance levels.
		
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That's incorrect, Scotland had already lost a CL place before the Rangers stuff happened.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 1, 2014)

ger147 said:



			Liverpool are currently 45th on the list and go straight into the CL groups. Celtic are currently 55th on the list and have 3 qualifying rounds in July.

So automatic CL group places has little to do with prior performances. Hopelessly biased against the small nations.
		
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Totally sums up how the smaller nations [no matter how talented] have no chance against the countries with the big TV audiences.
The whole process is as bent as a five bob note.

A fairly average Hearts team taking Liverpool to the limit a couple of years ago shows what the real difference is.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 1, 2014)

ger147 said:



			That's incorrect, Scotland had already lost a CL place before the Rangers stuff happened.
		
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2011/12 lost a place in the CL due to poor performances of all Scottish clubs in bot competitions and dropping out of the top 15 in Europe. 

The stronger your teams are the more places you have - it means a better quality competition - again improve the Scottish teams and you improve the results in Europe. 

The co efficient will only keep dropping if they keep playing poorly - and there are smaller clubs than Celtic etc that perform and keep their place in the CL


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## ger147 (Aug 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			2011/12 lost a place in the CL due to poor performances of all Scottish clubs in bot competitions and dropping out of the top 15 in Europe. 

The stronger your teams are the more places you have - it means a better quality competition - again improve the Scottish teams and you improve the results in Europe. 

The co efficient will only keep dropping if they keep playing poorly - and there are smaller clubs than Celtic etc that perform and keep their place in the CL
		
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2011/12 was before the Rangers nonsense as I said above.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 1, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Totally sums up how the smaller nations [no matter how talented] have no chance against the countries with the big TV audiences.
The whole process is as bent as a five bob note.

A fairly average Hearts team taking Liverpool to the limit a couple of years ago shows what the real difference is.
		
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One off games don't show differences - no matter how many times you try and tell yourself. The difference between the Scottish league and Prem is vast 

Far too busy trying to look to blame others without looking at the standard of your own - improve the quality and competition of your league and then the rest will follow 

There are a number of small leagues that continuely manage to qualify for CL year in year out .


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 1, 2014)

ger147 said:



			2011/12 was before the Rangers nonsense as I said above.
		
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It was - so maybe it's worse than I thought and the standard was dropping a number of years ago.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			One off games don't show differences - no matter how many times you try and tell yourself. The difference between the Scottish league and Prem is vast 

Far too busy trying to look to blame others without looking at the standard of your own - improve the quality and competition of your league and then the rest will follow 

There are a number of small leagues that continuely manage to qualify for CL year in year out .
		
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yea yea yea......One off matches, they were not really trying, new manager, best players were injured, pre season friendlies don't count etc etc etc.
Do you ever get tired of making excuses.

BTW the Hearts v Liverpool match was a TWO match one off that you were blooming lucky to win , against our 'ordinary' team.


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## ger147 (Aug 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was - so maybe it's worse than I thought and the standard was dropping a number of years ago.
		
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Yes, that's the point I've been trying to make.

Of course we'll be sinking like a brick now but if you look carefully about how the co-efficient system is set up, it is incredibly difficult for smaller nations to even make the start line in the CL.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 1, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			yea yea yea......One off matches, they were not really trying, new manager, best players were injured, pre season friendlies don't count etc etc etc.
Do you ever get tired of making excuses.
		
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Ok put it simply - three Scottish clubs in Europe this week - all three lost 

Anyone counting a pre season friendly to judge teams really likes clutching at straws 

Liverpool played Hearts and beat them and knocked them out

This week should have highlighted how poor your league football is at the moment yet you still hark back to a match 2 years ago and a pre season friendly


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 1, 2014)

ger147 said:



			Yes, that's the point I've been trying to make.

Of course we'll be sinking like a brick now but if you look carefully about how the co-efficient system is set up, it is incredibly difficult for smaller nations to even make the start line in the CL.
		
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There are some clubs in the CL a great deal smaller than Celtic - also leagues around the same size as Scotland's - not so long ago Scotland were 13th and ahead of countries like Denmark and Belguim - Belguim don't have money dripping out of them but have managed to nuture some wonderful players and get stronger and gain CL places etc 

No idea how you will do it but really do need to find a way to get better teams playing


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ok put it simply - three Scottish clubs in Europe this week - all three lost 

Anyone counting a pre season friendly to judge teams really likes clutching at straws 

Liverpool played Hearts and beat them and knocked them out

This week should have highlighted how poor your league football is at the moment yet you still hark back to a match 2 years ago and a pre season friendly
		
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You really don't get it do you.........they are playing against decent quality teams.
How do you think Hull would shape up against the team Celtic played.

I shall repeat Liverpool were very lucky to defeat an average Hearts side, they won but only with a last minute winner.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There are some clubs in the CL a great deal smaller than Celtic - also leagues around the same size as Scotland's - not so long ago Scotland were 13th and ahead of countries like Denmark and Belguim - Belguim don't have money dripping out of them but have managed to nuture some wonderful players and get stronger and gain CL places etc 

No idea how you will do it but really do need to find a way to get better teams playing
		
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Phil You are getting confused between Countries and Leagues.

The EPL is the third best league in the world but England are definitely not the third ranked team in the world


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## chris661 (Aug 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There are some clubs in the CL a great deal smaller than Celtic - also leagues around the same size as Scotland's - not so long ago Scotland were 13th and ahead of countries like Denmark and Belguim - Belguim don't have money dripping out of them but have managed to nuture some wonderful players and get stronger and gain CL places etc 

No idea how you will do it but really do need to find a way to get better teams playing
		
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And which of them go straight into the group stages? 

Why do you continually have to hammer home a point when you actually know very little about the subject. Maybe if you just stopped going on and on and on and on.....


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 1, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			You really don't get it do you.........they are playing against decent quality teams.
How do you think Hull would shape up against the team Celtic played.

I shall repeat Liverpool were very lucky to defeat an average Hearts side, they won but only with a last minute winner.
		
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Hull aren't champions of their league ! And even in their first campaign in Europe they still didnt lose and I reckon they wouldn't have list 4-1 

Liverpool beat hearts - simple as that - how it doesn't matter. Man UTD once only just beat a non league team - does that mean the standard between the two team is close. 

How close do you think the standard between the SPL and EPL is ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 1, 2014)

chris661 said:



			And which of them go straight into the group stages? 

Why do you continually have to hammer home a point when you actually know very little about the subject. Maybe if you just stopped going on and on and on and on.....
		
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Anderlecht go straight into the group stage - took the Scottish place in the group stage. 

Are Anderlecht a bigger club with money dripping from their league ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 1, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Phil You are getting confused between Countries and Leagues.

The EPL is the third best league in the world but England are definitely not the third ranked team in the world
		
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I'm not talking about national teams - the UEFA co effeicents for European competitions has nothing to do with the national team.

I'm talking about the leagues and the difference in quality between the leagues ( as stated in the OP )


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 1, 2014)

chris661 said:



			And which of them go straight into the group stages? 

Why do you continually have to hammer home a point when you actually know very little about the subject. Maybe if you just stopped going on and on and on and on.....
		
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and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on






and on


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 2, 2014)

Spurs hammered Celtic 6-1.

But, in Liverhampton land
It was a friendly, the Celtic team were avoiding injuries ahead of the CL match, they had a player sent off, it was raining, They had the wrong sort of ball, someone in the crowd shouted at them and the team bus was held up by the traffic going to the Games.

So the score is unimportant.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 2, 2014)

Doon frae Troon the team bus was held up by the traffic going to the Games.

So the score is unimportant.[/QUOTE said:
			
		


			What Games in Helsinki?
		
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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 2, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Spurs hammered Celtic 6-1.

But, in Liverhampton land
It was a friendly, the Celtic team were avoiding injuries ahead of the CL match, they had a player sent off, it was raining, They had the wrong sort of ball, someone in the crowd shouted at them and the team bus was held up by the traffic going to the Games.

So the score is unimportant.
		
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You are finally catching on about the importance of pre season and friendly games


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 2, 2014)

In the true spirit of the commonwealth games, there are no losers!

Congratulations to st Johnstone, Aberdeen and Celtic for bravely winning the silver medal in their European ties this week....


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 2, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			What Games in Helsinki?
		
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Guilty as charged


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 2, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Guilty as charged 

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And I didn't even mention Birmingham City 3, Inverness Caledonian Thistle 1.

Well I couldn't really given my previous remarks about friendlies. Apparently the crowd(?) was swollen by 110 away supporters. Is there really so little to do in Inverness at the week-end?


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## Foxholer (Aug 2, 2014)

chris661 said:



			And which of them go straight into the group stages? 

Why do you continually have to hammer home a point when you actually know very little about the subject. Maybe if you just stopped going on and on and on and on.....
		
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Seems to me he knows a lot more about it than most Scots!

And the OP was all about his realisation of the difference too!

Apart from Celtic, I don't believe any SPL team would be competitive - even probably not in The Championship! That doesn't mean it isn't 'exciting' though. As I've stated a couple of times, the promotion battle in The Scottish Championship will be very interesting!



FairwayDodger said:



			In the true spirit of the commonwealth games, there are no losers!

Congratulations to st Johnstone, Aberdeen and Celtic for bravely winning the silver medal in their European ties this week.... 

Click to expand...

:rofl: :rofl: :clap:


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 2, 2014)

It will be interesting to compare SPL and SCL attendance figures at the end of the season.
As Foxy says there will be more interest in the Championship.


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## chris661 (Aug 2, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Seems to me he knows a lot more about it than most Scots!

And the OP was all about his realisation of the difference too!

Apart from Celtic, I don't believe any SPL team would be competitive - even probably not in The Championship! That doesn't mean it isn't 'exciting' though. As I've stated a couple of times, the promotion battle in The Scottish Championship will be very interesting!
		
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Really? Go on to any message board for any team and Scotland and most of the fans seem to have a realisation that the level of football is crap.

  He keeps harping on about rangers making it to the top flight for competition to Celtic which seemingly will then create some sort of utopian state where sky will suddenly start pouring money into a product that is frankly garbage. It isn't going to happen. The only way to create competition is to have better players and to do that you need money to pay them. Why come to Scotland for 15k a week when they could earn twice that in the championship or even that a day in the premier league. And that is achieved with the ludicrous sky money.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 2, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Really? He keeps harping on about rangers making it to the top flight for competition to Celtic which seemingly will then create some sort of utopian state where sky will suddenly start pouring money into a product that is frankly garbage. It isn't going to happen. The only way to create competition is to have better players and to do that you need money to pay them. Why come to Scotland for 15k a week when they could earn twice that in the championship or even that a day in the premier league. And that is achieved with the ludicrous sky money.
		
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Absolutely right.

The TV companies are not going to pay big money for the SPL whether Rangers are in it or not. 

Remember this will be only the third season that they, Rangers, have been outside and at that time neither Sky nor any other broadcaster was willing to provide the sort of funds necessary for the clubs to recruit the quality players.

The product is now so poor that nobody outside Scotland, other than exiles, are interested.

Sad but true.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 2, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Really? Go on to any message board for any team and Scotland and most of the fans seem to have a realisation that the level of football is crap.

  He keeps harping on about rangers making it to the top flight for competition to Celtic which seemingly will then create some sort of utopian state where sky will suddenly start pouring money into a product that is frankly garbage. It isn't going to happen. The only way to create competition is to have better players and to do that you need money to pay them. Why come to Scotland for 15k a week when they could earn twice that in the championship or even that a day in the premier league. And that is achieved with the ludicrous sky money.
		
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So how have Belgium managed to do it without "ludicrous" Sky money ? 

With Rangers in the top flight alongside Celtic at least then there is some sort of competition that could be sold to TV companies for at least more money that goes into the league right now - no one wants to buy a product when you know who will win the league before it even starts. 

Rangers have also in the past helped in regards the co efficient that will help improve the where they enter the each European Comp. 

There are other leagues around Europe that get themselves into European Comps and have improved without the ludicrous sky money


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 2, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So how have Belgium managed to do it without "ludicrous" Sky money ? 

With Rangers in the top flight alongside Celtic at least then there is some sort of competition that could be sold to TV companies for at least more money that goes into the league right now - no one wants to buy a product when you know who will win the league before it even starts. 

Rangers have also in the past helped in regards the co efficient that will help improve the where they enter the each European Comp. 

There are other leagues around Europe that get themselves into European Comps and have improved without the ludicrous sky money
		
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Belgium. Aside from Anderlecht, Brugge and Liege none of whom are as good as they were twenty or thirty years ago. There's little competition in that league and none of their European contenders tend to fair very well. In hindsight it's pretty similar to the Scottish situation at the moment


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 2, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So how have Belgium managed to do it without "ludicrous" Sky money ? 

With Rangers in the top flight alongside Celtic at least then there is some sort of competition that could be sold to TV companies for at least more money that goes into the league right now - no one wants to buy a product when you know who will win the league before it even starts. 

Rangers have also in the past helped in regards the co efficient that will help improve the where they enter the each European Comp. 

There are other leagues around Europe that get themselves into European Comps and have improved without the ludicrous sky money
		
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So what do you propose, Rangers automatically reinstated into the SPL? 

You don't seem to accept that when they were competing with Celtic there still was little or no interest in SPL games outside of Scotland but that was the case. BBC attempted to generate an audience and quickly dropped the experiment.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 2, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			So what do you propose, Rangers automatically reinstated into the SPL? 

You don't seem to accept that when they were competing with Celtic there still was little or no interest in SPL games outside of Scotland but that was the case. BBC attempted to generate an audience and quickly dropped the experiment.
		
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Not at all - Rangers must work their own way back up and get themselves back competing against Celtic and whilst the money wasn't massive Sky still bought the rights to the Scottish Prem and it was actually sold abroad when there was Old Firms games and the league wasn't over before a ball was kicked. 

The problem is ( not aimed here ) Celtic fans ( In general from what I have witnessed ) are that happy without Rangers there and being dropped down they don't seem to see it as a problem them winning the before a ball is kicked. Maybe going out of the CL so early might be a wake up to sort the league out


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 2, 2014)

The finances of the EPL are the finances of the madhouse, it is bound to end in tears when Sky/Virgin/BT/ESPL or whatever new conglomeration decide to move elsewhere and follow whatever country now gives them better viewing figures.

Wee clubs like St Johnstone/Dundee/ICT etc are well run and budgeted.
What happened to EPL clubs like Sheffield, Blackpool, Birmingham, Bolton, Burnley etc will not bother them.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 2, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The finances of the EPL are the finances of the madhouse, it is bound to end in tears when Sky/Virgin/BT/ESPL or whatever new conglomeration decide to move elsewhere and follow whatever country now gives them better viewing figures.

Wee clubs like St Johnstone/Dundee/ICT etc are well run and budgeted.
What happened to EPL clubs like Sheffield, Blackpool, Birmingham, Bolton, Burnley etc will not bother them.

Click to expand...



SKY etc etc have just renewed the contracts for an increased fee

The EPL will always be a league that will sell around the world - where exactly are companies going to move too ?! 

The clubs you mention are still around and playing in the Champ bar Burnley who got promoted


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 2, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			SKY etc etc have just renewed the contracts for an increased fee

The EPL will always be a league that will sell around the world - where exactly are companies going to move too ?! 

The clubs you mention are still around and playing in the Champ bar Burnley who got promoted
		
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So why is Belgium suddenly the league of choice for you then? The SPL even with Sky showing the old firm matches is never going sell in abundance. Celtic going out of Europe isn't a given yet either in the CL (big ask) or Europa League. to be fair, I think (and I'm only an Englishman with an interest in football regardless of team, religion etc) Celtic and Rangers need each other. That said some of the other Socttish PL teams seem to be getting better and the gap between Celtic and the others not perhaps as big as it once was


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 2, 2014)

Belguim was mentioned because that league was the league that took Scotland's automatic CL place due to rising above them in the Co Efficents.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 2, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The finances of the EPL are the finances of the madhouse, it is bound to end in tears when Sky/Virgin/BT/ESPL or whatever new conglomeration decide to move elsewhere and follow whatever country now gives them better viewing figures.

Wee clubs like St Johnstone/Dundee/ICT etc are well run and budgeted.
What happened to EPL clubs like Sheffield, Blackpool, Birmingham, Bolton, Burnley etc will not bother them.

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People (including myself) have been saying that ever since the advent of the EPL in '92 so I don't really think that is a realistic question any longer.

And perhaps you could enlighten me; what did happen to those EPL clubs you listed? All still going concerns as far as I can see. 

In the case of one of them I can assure that they are successfully trading within budget and without Bank debt. May be short of capital due to the owner's difficulties in Hong Kong but administration does not appear to be an imminent danger.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 2, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Belguim was mentioned because that league was the league that took Scotland's automatic CL place due to rising above them in the Co Efficents.
		
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Hardly setting the world alight though and can't really see what the fuss is about. Yes, a Scots team has to pre-qualify (and yes they are struggling to do so) but I really see no validity other than Belgium are benefitting from some UEFA maths equation


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 2, 2014)

By their standards St Johnstone played very poorly on Thursday.  We will score next week in Slovakia but will struggle to score two - never mind keeping a clean sheet.  

Looks like we may be getting an offer of Â£1.2m for Stevie May - from Rotherham.  Notwithstanding that we'd rather not lose Stevie we could not turn down that sort of money.  But a little observation I might make is Rotherham and Â£1.2m.  Just nuts and makes me wonder how real that sort of money is and at which point the likes of newly promoted Rotherham over-stretch themselves and pop goes the balloon.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 2, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			whilst the money wasn't massive Sky still bought the rights to the Scottish Prem and it was actually sold abroad when there was Old Firms games
		
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Not massive!It was, in relative terms, peanuts. 

The only hope for the Old Firm was to do a deal akin to that in Spain where the Big Two take 80%+ of the TV rights money but I somehow don't see the "wee clubs" signing up to that.


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## Foxholer (Aug 2, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Really? Go on to any message board for any team and Scotland and most of the fans seem to have a realisation that the level of football is crap.

  He keeps harping on about rangers making it to the top flight for competition to Celtic which seemingly will then create some sort of utopian state where sky will suddenly start pouring money into a product that is frankly garbage. It isn't going to happen. The only way to create competition is to have better players and to do that you need money to pay them. Why come to Scotland for 15k a week when they could earn twice that in the championship or even that a day in the premier league. And that is achieved with the ludicrous sky money.
		
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Right. At least there's an admission by Scottish fans that the quality is dire!

Rangers return, if/when it happens should at least provide a boost, but will be no panacea! 

To some/a large extent, Scottish Football has got what it deserves. The apparent vindictive attitude of some of the Clubs to where New Rangers should start certainly didn't help, though there was certainly justification for the attitude at the time - much, if not all, of which was subsequently ruled in favour of Rangers! Whether Rangers versn 2 survives the year will also be interesting! I don't believe there's any realistic challenge to Celtic by them (and they are the only ones who are capable of challenging!) for 2-3 years, so it's only going to get worse! The fact that Belgium has taken over Scotland's automatic spot is merely another demonstration that the standard has dropped!

There is really no market for Scottish football outside Scotland (and ex-pats) and that's the whole crux of the problem! Whereas with EPL there is a worldwide demand! So while Rangers return is the only hope, it's very unlikely to be a saviour imo!


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 3, 2014)

109,000 watched a game of fitba in the USA last night.

[Just waiting for a certain somebody say that they were all English and Spanish fans on an awayday]


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 3, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			109,000 watched a game of fitba in the USA last night.

[Just waiting for a certain somebody say that they were all English and Spanish fans on an awayday]
		
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What exactly is the relevance of that post to the thread ?

Football in that states is on a massive boom because of how well they played in the WC and the MLS doing well

And it's great to see


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## chris661 (Aug 3, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Right. At least there's an admission by Scottish fans that the quality is dire!

Rangers return, if/when it happens should at least provide a boost, but will be no panacea! 

To some/a large extent, Scottish Football has got what it deserves. The apparent vindictive attitude of some of the Clubs to where New Rangers should start certainly didn't help, though there was certainly justification for the attitude at the time - much, if not all, of which was subsequently ruled in favour of Rangers! Whether Rangers versn 2 survives the year will also be interesting! I don't believe there's any realistic challenge to Celtic by them (and they are the only ones who are capable of challenging!) for 2-3 years, so it's only going to get worse! The fact that Belgium has taken over Scotland's automatic spot is merely another demonstration that the standard has dropped!

There is really no market for Scottish football outside Scotland (and ex-pats) and that's the whole crux of the problem! Whereas with EPL there is a worldwide demand! So while Rangers return is the only hope, it's very unlikely to be a saviour imo!
		
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Fans? I speak for no one except me thanks. 

Rangers having to live within their means will never be competitive again. Well not like the previous club were anyway. They have lost close on 70 million class moving out of the bottom two leagues :rofl: they had a perfect opportunity but the superiority complex demanded SPL level players and wages. No chance they can live witilhin their means the fans will dwindle if they do creating a knock on effect. They won't be the challenge many are predicting for years if ever.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 3, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What exactly is the relevance of that post to the thread ?

Football in that states is on a massive boom because of how well they played in the WC and the MLS doing well

And it's great to see
		
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Sorry, I thought it was pretty obvious.
That is where the best players in the world and all the TV money will be going within a decade.


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## Foxholer (Aug 3, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Fans? I speak for no one except me thanks.
		
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chris661 said:



			Really? Go on to any message board for any team and Scotland and most of the fans seem to have a realisation that the level of football is crap.
		
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It would seem somewhat selectively! (though I made no mention of fans in the post, you quote! )



chris661 said:



			Rangers having to live within their means will never be competitive again. Well not like the previous club were anyway. They have lost close on 70 million class moving out of the bottom two leagues :rofl: they had a perfect opportunity but the superiority complex demanded SPL level players and wages. No chance they can live witilhin their means the fans will dwindle if they do creating a knock on effect. They won't be the challenge many are predicting for years if ever.
		
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I'm inclined to agree - if they simply continue as they are. 

But their 'history' demonstrates that with appropriate investment and proper management, they can be resurrected and a decent profit can (eventually) be made. That's the sort of thing many overseas (and perhaps a few local) investors are actually looking for imo. in the same way that they have done so - with mixed results - in the English Championship. Newcastle is an(other) example of a relative success imo. and Ashley's name has, indeed, been linked with Rangers.

That will still only make 2 reasonable teams though, so the real problem won't go away - the product (SPL) is just not attractive/popular enough! Of course, it has always really been that way, but only recently has the gap been so glaringly, and demonstrably, obvious!


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## chris661 (Aug 3, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			It would seem somewhat selectively! (though I made no mention of fans in the post, you quote! )
		
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			Right. At least there's an admission by Scottish fans that the quality is dire!
		
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Not you then. OK. 



			I'm inclined to agree - if they simply continue as they are. 

But their 'history' demonstrates that with appropriate investment and proper management, they can be resurrected and a decent profit can (eventually) be made. That's the sort of thing many overseas (and perhaps a few local) investors are actually looking for imo. in the same way that they have done so - with mixed results - in the English Championship. Newcastle is an(other) example of a relative success imo. and Ashley's name has, indeed, been linked with Rangers.

That will still only make 2 reasonable teams though, so the real problem won't go away - the product (SPL) is just not attractive/popular enough! Of course, it has always really been that way, but only recently has the gap been so glaringly, and demonstrably, obvious!
		
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Even with champions league football the old rangers were not even close to making a profit. And without that level of player the fans will drift away to 80's levels again making the situation worse. The real problem started when Murray came in with someone else's money (namely the banks) it drove Scottish football to silly levels before that they weren't doing too badly in europe. Whether that would have continued is anyone's guess.


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 3, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Not you then. OK. 


Even with champions league football the old rangers were not even close to making a profit. And without that level of player the fans will drift away to 80's levels again making the situation worse. The real problem started when Murray came in with someone else's money (namely the banks) it drove Scottish football to silly levels before that they weren't doing too badly in europe. Whether that would have continued is anyone's guess.
		
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While they undoubtedly overspent chasing the dream for years, in more recent times under mcleish and smith the debt was being tackled and reducing. So, yes, I'd say with a more realistic approach and the absence of a debt mountain that they should be able to make a profit.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 3, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Sorry, I thought it was pretty obvious.
That is where the best players in the world and all the TV money will be going within a decade.
		
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Living on cloud cuckoo land if you actually believe that


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 3, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Living on cloud cuckoo land if you actually believe that
		
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For once, I think DFT might actually be onto something. You're a bit naive to dismiss it so emphatically. 

Where do you find all the TV money and best players in golf?


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## Foxholer (Aug 3, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Even with champions league football the old rangers were not even close to making a profit. And without that level of player the fans will drift away to 80's levels again making the situation worse. The real problem started when Murray came in with someone else's money (namely the banks) it drove Scottish football to silly levels before that they weren't doing too badly in europe. Whether that would have continued is anyone's guess.
		
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Here's an interesting, if relatively old, analysis of the problem - and does highlight Murray's spending boast as one of the fundamental triggers. Green has now gone of course!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsm...the-financial-meltdown-of-glasgow-rangers-fc/

Overspending chasing unrealistic/unfulfilled goals have been the downfall of many clubs (Leeds being the glaring one in England). However, Scottish Football needs Rangers to be competitive again imo. And the sooner, the better! English football is big enough to allow wayward clubs to shrink, as others simply replace them. And the Broadcasting revenue is on a completely different scale!

Btw. While I agree with DfT that there'll be an increase in Football in US, I don't believe it will ever take over from Europe as THE main place for Football. Part of that view is because of the failure/inability of the US crowd culture to understand a Draw/Tie!!


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## chris661 (Aug 3, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Here's an interesting, if relatively old, analysis of the problem - and does highlight Murray's spending boast as one of the fundamental triggers. Green has now gone of course!

Overspending chasing unrealistic/unfulfilled goals have been the downfall of many clubs (Leeds being the glaring one in England). However, Scottish Football needs Rangers to be competitive again imo. And the sooner, the better! English football is big enough to allow wayward clubs to shrink, as others simply replace them. And the Broadcasting revenue is on a completely different scale!
		
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I don't believe rangers will be in a position to challenge when/if they make it to the top division for a very long time. 

Broadcasting revenue is IMO the crux of the problem.


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## chris661 (Aug 3, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			While they undoubtedly overspent chasing the dream for years, in more recent times under mcleish and smith the debt was being tackled and reducing. So, yes, I'd say with a more realistic approach and the absence of a debt mountain that they should be able to make a profit.
		
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Problem is the majority of fans don't care about profit or anything else except winning leagues. That isn't going to happen without an unrealistic approach. The board are still telling fans that the last 16 and the occasional semi of the champions league is a realistic aim.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 3, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			For once, I think DFT might actually be onto something. You're a bit naive to dismiss it so emphatically. 

Where do you find all the TV money and best players in golf?
		
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Golf has been popular in the US for decades upon decades - there is no comparison to football

The US public will always have football below a number of sports over there , over here and on Europe Football is the number one sport - the appeal is Europe/South America is massive  - the big club comps are in Europe and SA.

The fans in the Uk and in Europe pay the money to see their teams play - that's why Sky will continue to pump money into the game in the UK and in the CL. 

Whilst the MLS is a decent league it is a final resting place for the pros - unless the top pros start going their during their prime then the money will continue to pour into European
Football


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 3, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Golf has been popular in the US for decades upon decades - there is no comparison to football

The US public will always have football below a number of sports over there , over here and on Europe Football is the number one sport - the appeal is Europe/South America is massive  - the big club comps are in Europe and SA.

The fans in the Uk and in Europe pay the money to see their teams play - that's why Sky will continue to pump money into the game in the UK and in the CL. 

Whilst the MLS is a decent league it is a final resting place for the pros - unless the top pros start going their during their prime then the money will continue to pour into European
Football
		
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I think the point is that English football should not get complacent, things can change. The us is a sleeping giant in football terms (or newly born giant, maybe, but you get the point). The Spanish league already attracts the very best players to its top two clubs, perhaps that league could grow, with other clubs gaining traction as the Spanish economy recovers..... Etc etc... And any other number of unknown events could happen...

If (big if) the TV money wasn't there anymore, there would need to be a huge adjustment in English football. Having seen Armageddon   in Scottish football I don't think you should bury your head in the sand.


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 3, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Problem is the majority of fans don't care about profit or anything else except winning leagues. That isn't going to happen without an unrealistic approach. The board are still telling fans that the last 16 and the occasional semi of the champions league is a realistic aim.
		
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I think (hope) that proportion of fans is changing. While they often make statements we would like to believe, the board talk nonsense on an almost daily basis. Most have very little faith in what they say.

It's not impossible for rangers to eventually become competitive domestically without breaking the bank. Question is can the club take that route while keeping the fans happy and patient.....? Unlikely, as you say. 

At least Celtic appear to be going backwards but I can't help thinking that, with their cash reserves, the purse strings would be loosened if it looked like there was a serious domestic challenge.


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## Foxholer (Aug 3, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Problem is the majority of fans don't care about profit or anything else except winning leagues.
		
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chris661 said:



			Fans? I speak for no one except me thanks.
		
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H'mm! 

Btw. I agree completely. Same happens in England/EPL - re Liverpool for example! It's an area where Wenger really IS a great Manager!


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 3, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			For once, I think DFT might actually be onto something. You're a bit naive to dismiss it so emphatically. 

Where do you find all the TV money and best players in golf?
		
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Huh, what do you mean... for once?
I am seldom wrong, although sometimes it may take 20 odd years to mature!

Slightly offended:smirk:


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 3, 2014)

The other thing that has changed is the young kids of today support players and not teams.

My football mad 8 year old grandson is a good example, whatever team Messi is playing for will be the team he supports. [at the mo]


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 3, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Golf has been popular in the US for decades upon decades - there is no comparison to football

The US public will always have football below a number of sports over there , over here and on Europe Football is the number one sport - the appeal is Europe/South America is massive  - the big club comps are in Europe and SA.

The fans in the Uk and in Europe pay the money to see their teams play - that's why Sky will continue to pump money into the game in the UK and in the CL. 

Whilst the MLS is a decent league it is a final resting place for the pros - unless the top pros start going their during their prime then the money will continue to pour into European
Football
		
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That is such a 'yesterdays man' comment.
Of course the best, in their prime' football players will end up in the USA because money talks.

100,900. fans in America for a friendly.
Look at Wicki. for English football  crowd records and I think there is only one club [Southampton] with record crowds since the 1980's.
Most club records were set in the 1920/30's.
Not any of those records come within 20,000 of the recent USA game.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 3, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			That is such a 'yesterdays man' comment.
Of course the best, in their prime' football players will end up in the USA because money talks.

100,900. fans in America for a friendly.
Look at Wicki. for English football  crowd records and I think there is only one club [Southampton] with record crowds since the 1980's.
Most club records were set in the 1920/30's.
Not any of those records come within 20,000 of the recent USA game.
		
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Since the '80s the stadia in England have become all seaters so record attendances are unlikely. Record gate receipts are, however, a different matter.

Also attendees at sports events in the States are notoriously fickle tending to be temporarily attracted to "the new big thing"
making it difficult to compare with established sports in established markets.

Mind you it would be great to see America finally embrace football but for this to happen there will have to be a marked improvement in the quality of the home grown players rather than those imported from elsewhere.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 3, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Mind you it would be great to see America finally embrace football but for this to happen there will have to be a marked improvement in the quality of the home grown players rather than those imported from elsewhere.
		
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Well the emergence of the 'Soccer Moms' as a targeted political grouping in the USA must give us a bit of a clue.
That generation are just about to bloom. Kids that is not the Moms:smirk:


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 3, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Well the emergence of the 'Soccer Moms' as a targeted political grouping in the USA must give us a bit of a clue.
That generation are just about to bloom. Kids that is not the Moms:smirk:
		
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The trouble for over twenty years now has been keeping the boys involved in the game beyond the age of around 14.

 With the girls it has been more successful, hence the performance of the US womens' team but the boys that remain involved in team sports still tend to gravitate towards "gridiron", baseball or basketball. 

There are, however, signs that "soccer's" fotunes may change.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 3, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			That is such a 'yesterdays man' comment.
Of course the best, in their prime' football players will end up in the USA because money talks.

100,900. fans in America for a friendly.
Look at Wicki. for English football  crowd records and I think there is only one club [Southampton] with record crowds since the 1980's.
Most club records were set in the 1920/30's.
Not any of those records come within 20,000 of the recent USA game.
		
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I think that really does show how little you really know 

The best players will not end up in the US - football will always be behind - baseball, basketball, American Football , Ice Hockey - the sports ingrained into American culture. They are already playing high wages but only for a certain amount of people because American sports use the wage cap within their sports. 

Football is not mainstream in the USA - people have been trying to increase the appeal for nearly 40 years now and it hasn't worked. 

As for the crowds - their stadiums are bigger and the attendances at UK grounds has reduced dramatically over the years due to safety reasons - but I would expect most would know that


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 3, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As for the crowds - their stadiums are bigger and the attendances at UK grounds has reduced dramatically over the years due to safety reasons - but I would expect most would know that
		
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So why has the UK not followed the USA example and built bigger stadiums to accommodate the lost thousands. 
The new grounds built at places like Southampton, Wigan, Southend, Burnley etc are generally in the 25-30,000 capacity.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 3, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			So why has the UK not followed the USA example and built bigger stadiums to accommodate the lost thousands. 
The new grounds built at places like Southampton, Wigan, Southend, Burnley etc are generally in the 25-30,000 capacity.
		
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Because they are very expensive to build and in the UK they don't get help from the City or local government to build to stadium

And 20-30000 is about right for those teams


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 3, 2014)

Not according to these figures

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_record_home_attendances_of_English_football_clubs

Remember also that the population of England has exploded since most of these attendances were recorded.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 3, 2014)

Here's a slight tangent that came to me earlier. As I see it, the premier league, for the lower echelon sides, struggle to get regular competitive football, struggling against the top three or four sides and only competing against the other sides around them. Why not expand the league, including say another six-eight from the Championship and get rid of to all degrees an elongated round robin event as they play four times.

Expand the Championship but the same number from the division one and the same with the bottom tier, allowing a few of the highland league sides (assuming grounds are up to standard). As I see it, the bigger table gives more sides more competition. I'd be interested to know if this has ever been muted or would it work. I know some (not necessarily Scottish) on here will no doubt have a raft of negatives and no doubt the facts and figures to back it up but it seemed a logical move


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## chris661 (Aug 3, 2014)




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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 3, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Not according to these figures

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_record_home_attendances_of_English_football_clubs

Remember also that the population of England has exploded since most of these attendances were recorded.
		
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I rally struggling to see the point you are attempting to make 

After the taylor report teams had to go all seater - that brought the amount of people able to watch the game down 

Clubs can't afford to pay 400 mill for 80000 all seater stadiums so build more manageable size stadium and less expensive 

It's extremely clear to most people why attendances at football matches have reduced since the Taylor report.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 3, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think that really does show how little you really know 

The best players will not end up in the US - football will always be behind - baseball, basketball, American Football , Ice Hockey - the sports ingrained into American culture. They are already playing high wages but only for a certain amount of people because American sports use the wage cap within their sports. 

Football is not mainstream in the USA - people have been trying to increase the appeal for nearly 40 years now and it hasn't worked. 

As for the crowds - their stadiums are bigger and the attendances at UK grounds has reduced dramatically over the years due to safety reasons - but I would expect most would know that
		
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Sorry but I think that is (insert word as appropriate). I have relatives in the US who are big sports fans. The number of deaths and serious (life changing) injuries in American Football in junior and high school games is increasing and many parents are seeing football as a preferred sport of choice. There is a big increase in the number of clubs in the 12-18 bracket and participation for both boys and girls increases as MLS soccer gets ever bigger. 

Baseball is struggling. Crowds are down at many franchises and many are finding it all rather boring (unless your a complete statto). The demographics of the crowds are quite high and it isn't attracting youngsters to watch and if they don't watch they won't play. Basketball is still a hugely popular sport but only in organised environment like school and not that many clubs (certainly in the SD area).

My family are actively involved at county level at running the football and they are struggling to accommodate those wanting to play full time. Apparently the situation is the same across most of San Diego (I can only comment on the areas I've been told about) but would hazard a guess it isn't an isolated incident


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## Foxholer (Aug 3, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Not according to these figures

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_record_home_attendances_of_English_football_clubs

Remember also that the population of England has exploded since most of these attendances were recorded.
		
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That actually puts even more pressure on Football Clubs - as the expense of building even an appropriately sized stadium is exponentially greater because of the pressure for residential housing! US has about 6 times the population and over 60 times the land mass - so little such pressure!

The Taylor Report certainly knobbled the concept of massive attendances - and the ability of the associated infrastructure to support them - and rightly so too! Broadcasting (Sky) has also enabled fans to watch their team without the need for attendance, (as small) part of the reason why Sky pay such large amounts for the rights.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 3, 2014)

To be honest outside the PL, and some footballing hotspots like Birmingham and Leeds, is there really a need for large stadia? Most clubs are part of their community and certainly the lower down the leagues they cater adequately for those wanting to attend aside for the once in a blue moon games against sides from higher divisions. My own club Fulham only has a capacity c25,000 but we weren't always full for every PL game. Why would we want to hassle of wanting to build a bigger stadium or fighting endless legal battles to improve the Cottage. Now we're a championship side again, the stadium is more than adequate. We're not alone in that. Look at Norwich, Stoke, Wigan, West Brom etc. None are or were full every game


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## JCW (Aug 3, 2014)

Arsenal has a waiting list just like my golf club and iys a long one


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## Foxholer (Aug 3, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Here's a slight tangent that came to me earlier. As I see it, the premier league, for the lower echelon sides, struggle to get regular competitive football, struggling against the top three or four sides and only competing against the other sides around them. Why not expand the league, including say another six-eight from the Championship and get rid of to all degrees an elongated round robin event as they play four times.

Expand the Championship but the same number from the division one and the same with the bottom tier, allowing a few of the highland league sides (assuming grounds are up to standard). As I see it, the bigger table gives more sides more competition. I'd be interested to know if this has ever been muted or would it work. I know some (not necessarily Scottish) on here will no doubt have a raft of negatives and no doubt the facts and figures to back it up but it seemed a logical move
		
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I believe expansion of some kind was considered some time ago but rejected on the basis that it would actually dilute the 'quality' - which is what I believe would be the case.

The current numbers work with a 2 home/2 away. It would need to be a large increase (and dilution) to go to a single home/away format. The quality is dire now; it would be even worse in that style!

Now, the 2 leagues are competitive, if not high quality!


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## MegaSteve (Aug 3, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Not according to these figures

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_record_home_attendances_of_English_football_clubs

Remember also that the population of England has exploded since most of these attendances were recorded.
		
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Don't think there were many 'armchair fans' in them times... If you wanted to watch footie you had to attend a match...


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 5, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I'm surprised you are surprised as the English teams continue to buy our best players and managers

Back to toe pick.

Say what you like about Salmond but he is an absolutely brilliant debater.
That is why Cameron won't go anywhere near him and has sacrificed Labour's Darling Boy on the high alter of politics. 

I think the combined party letter in today's press must now have sealed it for the naesayers.
		
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Like Rotherham (ROTHERHAM FFS)! looking to buy Stevie May from Saints.  They know we can't easily turn down around a million (though it would be paid in installments so we'd have to keep our fingers crossed that Rotherham didn't go bust before final.  He is worth a lot more than that - and of course if Rotherham get him well of course St Johnstone and Scottish football will be all the poorer.  Denude Scottish football of it's decent talent and of course it isn't going to look that great in comparison.  But were you to give a club like Saints a few seasons to strengthen their squad and I reckon we'd hold our own in lower half of English Championship 

What's interesting but not surprising is the way a couple of Rotherham fans came onto the main Saints fans board asking how Stevie would fair with moving to as BIGGER club like Rotherham - who the hell do they think they are? - that's yer English footballing arrogance for you.  They got a slamming.  Yes Rotherham might have more money (though they'll also more likely to go bust)- might have more supporters - but it's going to be a wee while before Rotherham get into Europe or win the FA Cup - and lest they haven't notices - diddy wee Saint Johnstone have done both.  So please just bugger off Rotherham and your condescending and arrogant supporters.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Like Rotherham (ROTHERHAM FFS)! looking to buy Stevie May from Saints.  They know we can't easily turn down around a million (though it would be paid in installments so we'd have to keep our fingers crossed that Rotherham didn't go bust before final.  He is worth a lot more than that - and of course if Rotherham get him well of course St Johnstone and Scottish football will be all the poorer.  Denude Scottish football of it's decent talent and of course it isn't going to look that great in comparison.  But were you to give a club like Saints a few seasons to strengthen their squad and I reckon we'd hold our own in lower half of English Championship 

What's interesting but not surprising is the way a couple of Rotherham fans came onto the main Saints fans board asking how Stevie would fair with moving to as BIGGER club like Rotherham - who the hell do they think they are? - that's yer English footballing arrogance for you.  They got a slamming.  Yes Rotherham might have more money (though they'll also more likely to go bust)- might have more supporters - but it's going to be a wee while before Rotherham get into Europe or win the FA Cup - and lest they haven't notices - diddy wee Saint Johnstone have done both.  So please just bugger off Rotherham and your condescending and arrogant supporters.
		
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they are bigger though really - playing a higher level of football currently.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			they are bigger though really - playing a higher level of football currently.
		
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What level of football is that?  Just promoted from League 1 - a higher level of football? - yeh right!


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			What level of football is that?  Just promoted from League 1 - a higher level of football? - yeh right!
		
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Yep into the championship - yep higher level playing for Rotherham in the Championship that St Johnstone in the SPL


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep into the championship - yep higher level playing for Rotherham in the Championship that St Johnstone in the SPL
		
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Well - can't be proven either way. And we get into debate over what constitutes bigger.  Except the evidence is that St Johnstone have played in Europe the last three seasons; we have won our national Cup, and are financially stable.  I wait for Rotherham to go tits up - which will happen a lot sooner than their playing in Europe or winning the FA CUp.  On many criteria Liverpool aren't one of the biggest clubs in teh England PL


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well - can't be proven either way. And we get into debate over what constitutes bigger.  *Except the evidence is that St Johnstone have played in Europe the last three seasons; we have won our national Cup, and are financially stable.*  I wait for Rotherham to go tits up - which will happen a lot sooner than their playing in Europe or winning the FA CUp.
		
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So does TNS from Wales - does that make them bigger than Man Utd now - are St Johnstone bigger than Man Utd or Man City etc etc etc


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So does TNS from Wales - does that make them bigger than Man Utd now - are St Johnstone bigger than Man Utd or Man City etc etc etc
		
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Precisely!

Three years ago my lot played in the Europa League whilst in the Championship and did reasonably well but it didn't mean we were a bigger club than those Premier League clubs who had not qualified for Europe that year and Wigan did the same last year. 

Any person who thinks any Scottish club other than Celtic could cut it south of the wall is, I am afraid, seriously deluded.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 5, 2014)

If you want evidence that English fitba has gone to hell in a handcart.

Â£35m buys you Andy Carroll
Â£1m buys you Stevie May


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 5, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			If you want evidence that English fitba has gone to hell in a handcart.

Â£35m buys you Andy Carroll
Â£1m buys you Stevie May
		
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You certainly would not need Â£35m nowadays to buy Andy Carroll.

Has Scottish football learned its lesson, after all Rangers would appear to have been the biggest financial casualty in British football and seem to be still making the same mistakes.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 5, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			You certainly would not need Â£35m nowadays to buy Andy Carroll.
		
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Some fools paid it though.
Which was my point.


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## mchacker (Aug 5, 2014)

Toni Kroos Â£24 million
Adam Lallana Â£25 million

English football is over inflated by money rather than quality, and it hasn't been effective improving anything, see champions league, piss poor world cup, etc.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2014)

mchacker said:



			Toni Kroos Â£24 million
Adam Lallana Â£25 million

English football is over inflated by money rather than quality, and it hasn't been effective improving anything, see champions league, piss poor world cup, etc.
		
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Kroos had one year left on his contract and wasnt signing a new one hence going cheaper than his worth - same when Owne went for Â£8mil. 

Sometimes its easier just to look at the fee.

As for CL - English footballs success has been pretty good - in the last ten year - 3 winners , another two finalists as well .

Spain had a poor WC im guessing that means their league is poor as well ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			If you want evidence that English fitba has gone to hell in a handcart.

Â£35m buys you Andy Carroll
Â£1m buys you Stevie May
		
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Who is Steve May ?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 5, 2014)

mchacker said:



			Toni Kroos Â£24 million
Adam Lallana Â£25 million

English football is over inflated by money rather than quality, and it hasn't been effective improving anything, see champions league, piss poor world cup, etc.
		
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I agree with that.

In the majority of EPL clubs the best players are foreign. The record in the CL is actually not that bad but our national team can, at best, hope to occasionally get out of its group at major tournaments.

All the EPL has succeeded in achieving is an increase in the bank balances of many agents and lots of players, many of whom can only be rated as slightly above average.

Throughout these islands it is the same story when it comes to skill levels.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who is Steve May ?
		
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For someone who gives the impression that they know an awful lot about Scottish football I am amazed by your reply.


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## mchacker (Aug 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Spain had a poor WC im guessing that means their league is poor as well ?
		
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I didn't say the EPL was poor, I said it was overpriced. But seeing as Spain and England both failed to get out of their groups and both were bummed up by their media then you're welcome to tar both with the same brush.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			For someone who gives the impression that they know an awful lot about Scottish football I am amazed by your reply.
		
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Well you are using him in comparison to Carroll - so what exactly is the comparison you are tryin to make ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2014)

mchacker said:



			I didn't say the EPL was poor, I said it was overpriced. But seeing as Spain and England both failed to get out of their groups and both were bummed up by their media then you're welcome to tar both with the same brush.
		
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Would say English players are overpriced - mainly due to quotas needed by clubs 

You mentioned not improving anything and quality and also mentioned the CL ? So I'm unsure what your point was with regards the CL


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 5, 2014)

Lets not forget when Fulham got to the Europa final we were the last British side standing, and had been for a while. Did that make them the biggest club in the country. Some of these comparisons are ludicrous


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## gdunc79 (Aug 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who is Steve May ?
		
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STEVIE May is the hottest prospect in Scottish football at the moment who is about to be sold to Rotherham for Â£800k as he only has a year left on his contract at St Johnstone. A crying shame as if he played in England he would be going for Â£2m-Â£3m easily.

I would have understood if you had said "who is Tony Watt?"......inferior Scottish striker sold by Celtic for Â£1.2m a couple of weeks ago despite not even getting a game for Celtic!!! I know who I would rather have bought with the money.....


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who is Steve May ?
		
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You know a lot about Scottish football then...actually you know fine well who he is.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 6, 2014)

gdunc79 said:



			STEVIE May is the hottest prospect in Scottish football at the moment who is about to be sold to Rotherham for Â£800k as he only has a year left on his contract at St Johnstone. A crying shame as if he played in England he would be going for Â£2m-Â£3m easily.

I would have understood if you had said "who is Tony Watt?"......inferior Scottish striker sold by Celtic for Â£1.2m a couple of weeks ago despite not even getting a game for Celtic!!! I know who I would rather have bought with the money.....
		
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Â£1.2m been rumoured..and Rotherham have the cheek to offer payment in phases.  The won't or can't pay up front.  Typical behaviour by English club towards diddy Scottish club - offer way under real value knowing it's hard to turn down and make the Scottish club feel deeply grateful to them for being so generous. 'Bigger' club in some ways it may be but sod off Rotherham you bunch of condescending shysters.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 6, 2014)

gdunc79 said:



			STEVIE May is the hottest prospect in Scottish football at the moment who is about to be sold to Rotherham for Â£800k as he only has a year left on his contract at St Johnstone. A crying shame as if he played in England he would be going for Â£2m-Â£3m easily.

I would have understood if you had said "who is Tony Watt?"......inferior Scottish striker sold by Celtic for Â£1.2m a couple of weeks ago despite not even getting a game for Celtic!!! I know who I would rather have bought with the money.....
		
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I know about Steve May 

He is that hot a prospect the club to take a punt on him is Rotherham - which shows the level of the player.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 6, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Â£1.2m been rumoured..and Rotherham have the cheek to offer payment in phases.  The won't or can't pay up front.  Typical behaviour by English club towards diddy Scottish club - offer way under real value knowing it's hard to turn down and make the Scottish club feel deeply grateful to them for being so generous. 'Bigger' club in some ways it may be but sod off Rotherham you bunch of condescending shysters.
		
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So what is his true value?

Surely it is what someone is willing to pay for him. If, as you suggest. it is in the region of Â£2m - Â£3m then a club from the higher reaches of the Championship or perhaps a lower Premier League team would be in for him.

Still time before the window shuts but I don't see a queue of clubs at St Johnstone's door.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 6, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			So what is his true value?

Surely it is what someone is willing to pay for him. If, as you suggest. it is in the region of Â£2m - Â£3m then a club from the higher reaches of the Championship or perhaps a lower Premier League team would be in for him.

Still time before the window shuts but I don't see a queue of clubs at St Johnstone's door.
		
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Quite right - there is no queue - he's still pretty raw and last season was the first when he has really shone.  In fact I'm not that sure why Rotherham are bothering - other than if they are taking a punt and hoping we'll accept just about anything half reasonable - and Â£800,000 is probably half reasonable.


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## Slime (Aug 6, 2014)

So Celtic are 0 - 1 down at half time.
They are of a standard that would not get them out of The Championship ........................ except via relegation of course.
Where did it all go so horribly wrong?


*Slime*.


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## gdunc79 (Aug 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I know about Steve May 

He is that hot a prospect the club to take a punt on him is Rotherham - which shows the level of the player.
		
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Keep fishing. How do you know he won't go on to score 25 goals this season for Rotherham or Sheffield Wed? Yet to find his "level". May even be Liverpool's level before too long.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 6, 2014)

gdunc79 said:



			Keep fishing. How do you know he won't go on to score 25 goals this season for Rotherham or Sheffield Wed? Yet to find his "level". May even be Liverpool's level before too long.
		
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So why are none of the premiership teams looking at him ?

In fact what about Celtic looking at him ? 

He is 21 - How does he compare to players like Barkley or Sterling ( both younger )


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 6, 2014)

Celtic out of CL after losing 2 nil at home


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Celtic out of CL after losing 2 nil at home
		
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Dahlia wilts - not great for Scottish football.  Must've been the alien feeling brought on my playing in Edinburgh


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## gdunc79 (Aug 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So why are none of the premiership teams looking at him ?

In fact what about Celtic looking at him ? 

He is 21 - How does he compare to players like Barkley or Sterling ( both younger )
		
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I never said he was ready for the Premiership now. Let's be honest, Premiership teams don't often sign young players with a view to developing them.

At the moment, Celtic are clueless when it comes to buying players. Look at the diddies they have bought over the last couple of seasons for Â£ms. The striker Balde must be one of the worst players I have ever seen.

So are you saying players can't reach their true level around their mid-20s or even late 20s? Barkley and Sterling could be nowhere by the time they are 25 with Stevie May playing at the highest level (i.e. Spain or Germany as we know the English Premiership is simply not the best league in the world). :ears:


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 7, 2014)

I think Celtic only had six Scots in the 18 man squad, two in the starting eleven, maybe that is there problem.

All the same it looks like a decent squad to me.
Disappointing result but early days for the manager, I hope he gets a decent chance as the players seem to be impressed with him.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2014)

gdunc79 said:



			I never said he was ready for the Premiership now. *Let's be honest, Premiership teams don't often sign young players with a view to developing them.
*
At the moment, Celtic are clueless when it comes to buying players. Look at the diddies they have bought over the last couple of seasons for Â£ms. The striker Balde must be one of the worst players I have ever seen.

So are you saying players can't reach their true level around their mid-20s or even late 20s? Barkley and Sterling could be nowhere by the time they are 25 with Stevie May playing at the highest level (i.e. Spain or Germany as we know the English Premiership is simply not the best league in the world). :ears:
		
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Lots of clubs buy young players and then look to see how they develop

We ourselves have signed 4 of them this summer including one striker. 

Players do reach their true level when it comes to around mid 20's - on the odd occasions you get later developers and obviously GKs are slightly different.

But if a player is going to make it at the highest level then at 21 ( 99% of the time ) they will be picked up already by a top club and already performing at the highest level

If May was 17 and on his way to the Championship then you could see him develop further - but at 21 ? Maybe its too late already. Maybe he is one that has slipped through the net somewhere but he hasnt even been picked for Scotland national team yet ( full )


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## Val (Aug 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I think Celtic only had six Scots in the 18 man squad, two in the starting eleven, maybe that is there problem.

All the same it looks like a decent squad to me.
Disappointing result but early days for the manager, I hope he gets a decent chance as the players seem to be impressed with him.
		
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Early days for the manager, however if history repeats itself for a 3rd time Deila will see 3 titles in a row and the last 16 of the CL within a year or 2.

Strachan - Artmedia Bratislava

Lennon - Braga

As for this season, well the season as a spectacle for Celtic fans is finished, the league title will be won before Easter and Celtic will finish at least 20 points clear and will probably lose more points after the league is won than they did for the whole season.


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 7, 2014)

I think Scottish football is at its lowest ebb.

Champions thrashed by a team that struggled to get past St Pats, and not even reaching the last CL qualifier. They should get a relatively easy tie to qualify for the Europa league but you've got to question whether they'll manage to get through it.

Yet it's not even in doubt that they will still romp the SPL. The only other club that has even a remote chance of ever competing with them is a total joke off the field and an embarrassment on it.

Looks like we're spiralling downhill with no obvious way to reverse the trend.

Pretty depressing.


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## Val (Aug 7, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			I think Scottish football is at its lowest ebb.

Champions thrashed by a team that struggled to get past St Pats, and not even reaching the last CL qualifier. They should get a relatively easy tie to qualify for the Europa league but you've got to question whether they'll manage to get through it.

Yet it's not even in doubt that they will still romp the SPL. The only other club that has even a remote chance of ever competing with them is a total joke off the field and an embarrassment on it.

Looks like we're spiralling downhill with no obvious way to reverse the trend.

Pretty depressing. 

Click to expand...

Told you pal, egg chasing is the way forward :thup:


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 7, 2014)

Valentino said:



			Told you pal, egg chasing is the way forward :thup:
		
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Never! Daft game for oiks!


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## Slime (Aug 7, 2014)

Valentino said:



			Told you pal, *egg chasing is the way forward* :thup:
		
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A bit early to be drinking, isn't it?


*Slime*.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 7, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			I think Scottish football is at its lowest ebb.

Champions thrashed by a team that struggled to get past St Pats, and not even reaching the last CL qualifier. They should get a relatively easy tie to qualify for the Europa league but you've got to question whether they'll manage to get through it.

Yet it's not even in doubt that they will still romp the SPL. The only other club that has even a remote chance of ever competing with them is a total joke off the field and an embarrassment on it.

Looks like we're spiralling downhill with no obvious way to reverse the trend.

Pretty depressing. 

Click to expand...

It is - though I'd suggest that the serious spiral downhill is really only at the top level of the Scottish game - and that is unfortunately only Celtic and (The) Rangers.  Regular and ancient watchers of my club (St Johnstone) reckon that the team we have today is possibly as good as our 'great' team of the late 1960s early 1970s under Willie Ormond - and that team came 3rd in the league in 1970-71 with Rangers and Celtic in the prime and a very good Aberdeen - Celtic won the league, Aberdeen second - and Saints beat Rangers into 4th.

We are lucky to have local lad Stevie May at the moment but knowing the nature of the Scottish Premiership (other than Celtic and maybe one or two others - it's very tight) there is a risk that without him we could find ourselves in a bottom 6 this coming season - the overall team is good but Stevie scores most of our goals!  

As we don't have a replacement the prospect of losing him is making us fans one and all feel very depressed - so our call to chairman is identify a replacement plse before selling Stevie.  Anyone who can score a few goals - we'll have a good amount of money available to find and pay someone who could do a good job in our league but don;t leave us completely toothless.

Other than that all is tickety-boo for the Scottish Cup Winners 2013 (until we get stuffed this evening in Slovakia )

Come on Aberdeen - you are our best hope (slim)


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 7, 2014)

I'll note on reflection that if we get gubbed tonight and Aberdeen win we at least have the consolation of not having to play the Dons on Saturday - we have a bit of light relief and opportunity to get things out of our system as we are playing Celtic 

Word on the grapevine is the Stevie doesn't wants to move and it's the club who want the money - not good for board-fans relations


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I'll note on reflection that if we get gubbed tonight and Aberdeen win we at least have the consolation of not having to play the Dons on Saturday - we have a bit of light relief and opportunity to get things out of our system as we are playing Celtic 

Word on the grapevine is the Stevie doesn't wants to move and it's the club who want the money - not good for board-fans relations 

Click to expand...

St Johnstone to Rotherham [a town I had to look up a map to see where it was] is hardly a career move.
The Saints want to sign him up for a 5 year contract like Liverpool did with Suarez.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			St Johnstone to Rotherham [a town I had to look up a map to see where it was] is hardly a career move.
The Saints want to sign him up for a 5 year contract like Liverpool did with Suarez.
		
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I would suggest same could be said bith ways. St Johnstone hardly based in a metropolis either. 
Plus ridiculous as it is. He'll still earn more at Rotherham.


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## gdunc79 (Aug 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But if a player is going to make it at the highest level then at 21 ( 99% of the time ) they will be picked up already by a top club and already performing at the highest level
		
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A bit like Rickie Lambert you mean............

Anyway, what is this Adam Morgan like who we have signed from Yeovil Town? Played well for Liverpool at youth level I believe. I also understand Robbie Fowler once said he was the most natural finisher he had ever seen. Must have lost it somwehere along the way.....


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2014)

gdunc79 said:



			A bit like Rickie Lambert you mean............

Anyway, what is this Adam Morgan like who we have signed from Yeovil Town? Played well for Liverpool at youth level I believe. I also understand Robbie Fowler once said he was the most natural finisher he had ever seen. Must have lost it somwehere along the way.....
		
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Rickie Lambert is a decent solid player who will score goals - he is cheap and playing for his boyhood club right now. Been aorund for years and did flourish a bit late so can put him in the 1%

Morgan was very prolfic at Youth and ressie level - looked to have a bright future. Was given a few starts and got the odd goal in cup but just didnt seem to be able to make the step up. Still could easily develop just think he lacks a little pace.


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## Slime (Aug 7, 2014)

And the unknown, (to a small minority only), has put St Johnstone ahead!
Go Stevie!


*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2014)

Looks like Legia Warsaw are getting investigated because of a possible Ineliguble player - could mean Celtic through to the final stage


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 7, 2014)

SSN saying the ineligible player could mean a reprieve but this has happened before and I'm sure the club normally gets fined. Mind you something says UEFA have chucked clubs out as well in the back of my mind. As long as they've been consistent in the past...NOT


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## Stuart_C (Aug 7, 2014)

Aberdeen are flying the flag for scottish football and are putting in a mighty performance tonight.

2-1 V Real Sociedad


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 7, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Aberdeen are flying the flag for scottish football and are putting in a mighty performance tonight.

2-1 V Real Sociedad
		
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Only need one more and plenty of time


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## chris661 (Aug 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looks like Legia Warsaw are getting investigated because of a possible Ineliguble player - could mean Celtic through to the final stage
		
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I really hope not


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2014)

chris661 said:



			I really hope not 

Click to expand...


Whys that ?


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## chris661 (Aug 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Whys that ?
		
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Because we got pumped 6-1 on aggregate and would only get embarrassed. Thought you would have known that


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## ger147 (Aug 7, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Because we got pumped 6-1 on aggregate and would only get embarrassed. Thought you would have known that 

Click to expand...

No chance of Legia getting kicked out. Ineligible player was a sub for final 3mins of 2nd leg. Same thing happened last year and the offending club was only fined as ineligible player was not material to the result.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 7, 2014)

chris661 said:



			I really hope not 

Click to expand...

I don't think its a good way of getting through but rules are rules. Not sure it'll make any difference in the longer term and can't see Celtic doing anything. I don't reckon it'll come to much though


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## chris661 (Aug 7, 2014)

ger147 said:



			No chance of Legia getting kicked out. Ineligible player was a sub for final 3mins of 2nd leg. Same thing happened last year and the offending club was only fined as ineligible player was not material to the result.
		
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Hopefully but UEFA work in wonderful ways


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## gdunc79 (Aug 7, 2014)

Slime said:



			And the unknown, (to a small minority only), has put St Johnstone ahead!
Go Stevie!


*Slime*.
		
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So nearly a brilliant swansong. Thanks for the memories Stevie!!


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## ger147 (Aug 7, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Hopefully but UEFA work in wonderful ways 

Click to expand...

That was what UEFA did last season in an identical scenario and was the reason they gave for rejecting the protest from the club who got knocked out.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Because we got pumped 6-1 on aggregate and would only get embarrassed. Thought you would have known that 

Click to expand...


But always a chance of a good draw and over KO you never know - always a chance and certainly one not to turn down - worth millions


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## Adi2Dassler (Aug 8, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Dahlia wilts - not great for Scottish football.
		
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Depends on your point of view.I'm delighted they got pumped, and hopefully they'll not get back in due that player farce.

Reducing the funds Celtc have at their disposal results in their squad being trimmed and slowly getting closer to everyone else, the league gets more competitive and other teams may just win a trophy, like last year.Euro co-efficient is nonsense, we'll never,ever have other teams going far in euro comps, so lets concentrate on maing the domestic game more interesting, and a weaker Celtc helps that.


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## Val (Aug 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			SSN saying the ineligible player could mean a reprieve but this has happened before and I'm sure the club normally gets fined. Mind you something says UEFA have chucked clubs out as well in the back of my mind. As long as they've been consistent in the past...NOT
		
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Celtic benefitted from this a few years ago.

For me it's a nonsense, we weren't good enough anyway and should be out.


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## Val (Aug 8, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Depends on your point of view.I'm delighted they got pumped, and hopefully they'll not get back in due that player farce.

Reducing the funds Celtc have at their disposal results in their squad being trimmed and slowly getting closer to everyone else, the league gets more competitive and other teams may just win a trophy, like last year.Euro co-efficient is nonsense, we'll never,ever have other teams going far in euro comps, so lets concentrate on maing the domestic game more interesting, and a weaker Celtc helps that.
		
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Depends on how you view that, a weaker Celtic will see less fans turning up to see Celtic therefore less travelling support therefore less money for clubs along with the potential of less sponsorship for Scottish football.

Call it as you like, football is finance based, the less attractive it becomes then the less money will come through.

Don't worry though, Hibs won't have to worry about that for a few years now, if you don't get out of the Championship this year the chances are we may see Hibs in the lower league for a number of years.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 8, 2014)

gdunc79 said:



			So nearly a brilliant swansong. Thanks for the memories Stevie!!
		
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^^^this - but hopefully he's no goin'


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## Adi2Dassler (Aug 8, 2014)

Valentino said:



			Depends on how you view that, a weaker Celtic will see less fans turning up to see Celtic therefore less travelling support therefore less money for clubs along with the potential of less sponsorship for Scottish football.

Call it as you like, football is finance based, the less attractive it becomes then the less money will come through.

Don't worry though, Hibs won't have to worry about that for a few years now, if you don't get out of the Championship this year the chances are we may see Hibs in the lower league for a number of years.
		
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Up until Tuesday I was pretty confident I'd see Hibs in the lower leagues for a good few years, but seeing how Stubbs has radically changed the style and confidence within the squad so rapidly, and given there's chat of a couple of the better Everton youth players coming up for a year, I'm far more optimistic of our chances.Especially given how poor I found The Rangers.Very average and I think they'll struggle.McCoist must be the worst Rangers manager ever.

Wrt to lower Celtc support travelling due to being poorer, I'm pretty sure that the loss of away support would be met by an increase in home support given the chance of competing, of lower levels of support meaning lower policing costs, or less TV games meaning more folk actually going to games and spending money.Depends how you see it I suppose and there is good arguments for both.

Scottish football needs to re adjust, become closer to the Swedish or Danish model instead of trying to be a smaller version of English upper leagues.Outside the to 10 teams there shouldn't be full time footballers and north/south regional leagues should replace the current set up lower down.Celtc/Rangers finding a suitable way out of Scottish football would be ideal, both for them and the clubs left behind.


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 8, 2014)

So... Celtic are back in the champions league. Well done Bhoys!

Through on away goals after an impressive 3-0 win at Murrayfield.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 8, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			So... Celtic are back in the champions league. Well done Bhoys!

Through on away goals after an impressive 3-0 win at Murrayfield.
		
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what a joke decision that is UEFA strike again.


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 8, 2014)

pbrown7582 said:



			what a joke decision that is UEFA strike again.
		
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Oi! Scottish football is on the up, my earlier post about our lowest ebb was clearly premature!


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 8, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Oi! Scottish football is on the up, my earlier post about our lowest ebb was clearly premature!
		
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:rofl: :rofl:


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## Adi2Dassler (Aug 8, 2014)

Incredible.The guy was on the pitch for a couple of minutes, but thems the rules.


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## gdunc79 (Aug 8, 2014)

Totally farcical. Celtic will probably get more in "prize money" for getting to the next stage after being humped 6-1 than St Johnstone will for selling their star player. Something very wrong with that.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 8, 2014)

gdunc79 said:



			Totally farcical. Celtic will probably get more in "prize money" for getting to the next stage after being humped 6-1 than St Johnstone will for selling their star player. Something very wrong with that.
		
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^^^don;t know whether to be  or :angry: as these are the sort of thing that stunt development of smaller clubs and bias things so much in favour of likes of Celtic.  But same as it ever was.


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## Birchy (Aug 8, 2014)

Very lucky but rules are rules just like golf when somebody gets DQ.

I hope they get to group stage now


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## Val (Aug 8, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Up until Tuesday I was pretty confident I'd see Hibs in the lower leagues for a good few years, but seeing how Stubbs has radically changed the style and confidence within the squad so rapidly, and given there's chat of a couple of the better Everton youth players coming up for a year, I'm far more optimistic of our chances.Especially given how poor I found The Rangers.Very average and I think they'll struggle.McCoist must be the worst Rangers manager ever.

Wrt to lower Celtc support travelling due to being poorer, I'm pretty sure that the loss of away support would be met by an increase in home support given the chance of competing, of lower levels of support meaning lower policing costs, or less TV games meaning more folk actually going to games and spending money.Depends how you see it I suppose and there is good arguments for both.

Scottish football needs to re adjust, become closer to the Swedish or Danish model instead of trying to be a smaller version of English upper leagues.Outside the to 10 teams there shouldn't be full time footballers and north/south regional leagues should replace the current set up lower down.Celtc/Rangers finding a suitable way out of Scottish football would be ideal, both for them and the clubs left behind.
		
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Like it or not, Celtic and Rangers (if you take their recent troubles aside) have outgrown Scottish football, Celtic at home in the past have had a larger attendance than all other senior games in Scotland combined. That is not healthy.

How do we fix it? Who know's, plenty have tried. Without Celtic or Rangers the leagues will be more competitive but will it bring in more money? Will sponsors invest? Will it improve the standard of football? They likely answer in most cases will be no.


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## Adi2Dassler (Aug 8, 2014)

Valentino said:



			How do we fix it? Who know's, plenty have tried. Without Celtic or Rangers the leagues will be more competitive but will it bring in more money? Will sponsors invest? Will it improve the standard of football? They likely answer in most cases will be no.
		
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The fix is less money, not more.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 8, 2014)

pbrown7582 said:



			what a joke decision that is UEFA strike again.
		
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You have to wonder if it had been a much bigger side from a more powerful UEFA nation if the same logic would have been applied. Still the decision has been made. Shows what I know from my earlier cooments


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## Val (Aug 8, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			The fix is less money, not more.
		
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Less money = less wages = poorer quality players.

That is not a fix


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## gdunc79 (Aug 8, 2014)

Can someone tell me in a couple of sentences why Swansea and Cardiff can play in the English leagues but there appears to be such a huge obstacle to Rangers and Celtic joining? Serious question!


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 8, 2014)

gdunc79 said:



			Can someone tell me in a couple of sentences why Swansea and Cardiff can play in the English leagues but there appears to be such a huge obstacle to Rangers and Celtic joining? Serious question!
		
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How about just that the EPL don't want them?


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## Adi2Dassler (Aug 8, 2014)

Valentino said:



			Less money = less wages = poorer quality players.

That is not a fix
		
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Or concentrating on developing players instead of over-paying overrated players?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 8, 2014)

gdunc79 said:



			Can someone tell me in a couple of sentences why Swansea and Cardiff can play in the English leagues but there appears to be such a huge obstacle to Rangers and Celtic joining? Serious question!
		
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Purely a a question of history.

At the time the Welsh clubs Swansea, Cardiff, Newport and Wrexham joined the Football League it did not require approval from outside.

A similar move these days would require UEFA approval and they have indicated they would not sanction any further cases of clubs playing in leagues outside their "footballing" nation. These days Berwick Rangers would have to play within the English pyramid.

On top of that it is extremely unlikely that sufficient English clubs would agree as they would not wish to dilute their share of the *comparative*&#8203; wealth in the English game.


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## gdunc79 (Aug 8, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Purely a a question of history.

At the time the Welsh clubs Swansea, Cardiff, Newport and Wrexham joined the Football League it did not require approval from outside.

A similar move these days would require UEFA approval and they have indicated they would not sanction any further cases of clubs playing in leagues outside their "footballing" nation. These days Berwick Rangers would have to play within the English pyramid.

On top of that it is extremely unlikely that sufficient English clubs would agree as they would not wish to dilute their share of the *comparative*&#8203; wealth in the English game.
		
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Thank you.

Will just have to hope that UEFA change their stance at some point in the near future.


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## gdunc79 (Aug 8, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			How about just that the EPL don't want them?
		
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Based on what? Sure those in charge of EPL would take them over Burnley, QPR and Hull for example.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 8, 2014)

gdunc79 said:



			Based on what? Sure those in charge of EPL would take them over Burnley, QPR and Hull for example.
		
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Why? 

The TV deals would be unlikely to be any bigger, Scottish domestic market is pretty small and those who would be likely to subscribe to Sky already do so. Crowd sizes are not an issue to the EPL.

It would take many years of the additional income before Celtic could compete with the top six, could even face relegation initially. As for Rangers they are not even in the Premier League in Scotland.

Truth is the Old Firm might need the EPL, the EPL does not need  the Old Firm.


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## Foxholer (Aug 8, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			How about just that the EPL don't want them?
		
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I believe it's mutual too. Scottish football is/was strong enough to support a reasonable quality league.

And logistics comes into it too. Welsh grounds are probably little further away for many English teams than other English ones, whereas Scottish grounds are a long way away for the vast majority of English clubs (save Carlisle!)


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 8, 2014)

gdunc79 said:



			Based on what? Sure those in charge of EPL would take them over Burnley, QPR and Hull for example.
		
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Based on that it's been talked to death for many years, discussed at EPL board level etc and there is simply no appetite for it at all. And who can blame them - what would Celtic or Rangers add to the premiership? Maybe a few years ago a case could have been made but not now.


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## Val (Aug 8, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			I believe it's mutual too. Scottish football is/was strong enough to support a reasonable quality league.

And logistics comes into it too. Welsh grounds are probably little further away for many English teams than other English ones, whereas Scottish grounds are a long way away for the vast majority of English clubs (save Carlisle!)
		
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Manchester to Glasgow is of similar mileage as Manchester to London, and there are many Premiership and Championship clubs in the North West. Distance doesn't really come into it.

The main point is, Celtic and Rangers are bigger clubs than at least 75% of the clubs in the Premiership and those smaller clubs are scared of losing revenue as if both got into the Premiership the 2 clubs are missing out.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 8, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			what would Celtic or Rangers add to the premiership?
		
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I am glad that it is a Scot finally asking this question.

Love it or loathe it (and I tend towards the latter) the EPL was set up by English clubs for the benefit of English clubs. It was never intended to be a British League.

The participation of Swansea and, last year, Cardiff was, as I said previously, a quirk of history.

Also, at a time when there is talk of independence or, at least, further devolution for Scotland there is probably even less appetite for this among English football followers.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 8, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			I am glad that it is a Scot finally asking this question.

Love it or loathe it (and I tend towards the latter) the EPL was set up by English clubs for the benefit of English clubs. It was never intended to be a British League.

The participation of Swansea and, last year, Cardiff was, as I said previously, a quirk of history.

Also, at a time when there is talk of independence or, at least, further devolution for Scotland there is probably even less appetite for this among English football followers.
		
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If Scotland become independent its a mute argument as UEFA won't allow clubs from different countries to play in other leagues. I'm surprised if they would sanction any move towards the old firm in the PL if the plan ever got off the floor anyway. Would they want to go ahead without the prospect of European football as UEFA would ensure they were sanctioned if they still went ahead


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			If Scotland become independent its a mute argument as UEFA won't allow clubs from different countries to play in other leagues. I'm surprised if they would sanction any move towards the old firm in the PL if the plan ever got off the floor anyway. Would they want to go ahead without the prospect of European football as UEFA would ensure they were sanctioned if they still went ahead
		
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That is the point, independence or not, UEFA would not sanction it.

In the eyes of the football authorities the UK is four separate countries as each has its own football association and they are, in turn, individually affiliated to UEFA & FIFA.
It is to those national associations that the leagues have to be registered.

UEFA have already indicated that they will not, in the future, approve clubs located geographically under the control of one association joining a league located in another country.

Therefore, the EPL does not wish to consider the Old Firm joining because of the broader implications. Who needs the hassle?


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 9, 2014)

We should really have a British League and only a British team.

We just might have a chance of reaching the World Cup Last 16 with a British team.
Imagine how well we would have done with the likes of Best, Dalgliesh, Souness, Rush and Bale playing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 9, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			We should really have a British League and only a British team.

We just might have a chance of reaching the World Cup Last 16 with a British team.
Imagine how well we would have done with the likes of Best, Dalgliesh, Souness, Rush and Bale playing.
		
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No thanks 

Believe there was a GB team in the Olympics - didn't do too great


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## Slime (Aug 9, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



*We should really have a British League and only a British team.*

We just might have a chance of reaching the World Cup Last 16 with a British team.
Imagine how well we would have done with the likes of Best, Dalgliesh, Souness, Rush and Bale playing.
		
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You'd probably find that view is only supported by those from Scotland and Wales because it would give them a team to cheer for that had a chance of qualifying for something.
English folk already have one.


*Slime*.


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## Dodger (Aug 9, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			We should really have a British League and only a British team.

We just might have a chance of reaching the World Cup Last 16 with a British team.
Imagine how well we would have done with the likes of Best, Dalgliesh, Souness, Rush and Bale playing.
		
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Stick the Union Jack where it don't shine please.

[video=youtube;t3to7MoGHBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3to7MoGHBE[/video]


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 9, 2014)

Ross McCormack moves from Leeds to Cardiff for Â£11m - possibly best striker in Scottish going for Â£800,000 - it's a joke.  Simply English clubs taking advantage of Scottish clubs -  nothing to do with worth or value.  But ho hum - same as it ever was.  How could Scottish football ever vaguely compete when there is such disparity and Scottish clubs treated with virtual disdain.  Here's Â£800,000 laddie - now just take it - off you go and don't complain or we won't be so generous next time'

And gone - Wednesday 

My lads girlfriend and her family are Wednesday supporters - ah well - at least he has consolation that he can go watch Stevie at Hillsborough


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 9, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Stick the Union Jack where it don't shine please.

[video=youtube;t3to7MoGHBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3to7MoGHBE[/video]
		
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Having just wasted four and a half minutes of my life watching the video the words rubbish and puerile come to mind, not necessarily in that order.

DfT's suggestion has far more merit than the arcane prejudices spouted there. 

The four Home Nations have achieved diddly squat as separate teams for nigh on 50 years. The international game passes them all by but what the hell, let's keep on doing what we've always done.

Still in your case, as a Celtic supporter, I can understand it. With a Scottish League your club can qualify for Europe (somehow) and kid yourself on that yours is a "Big Club".

Wake up, smell the coffee and consider the future.


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## Dodger (Aug 9, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Having just wasted four and a half minutes of my life watching the video the words rubbish and puerile come to mind, not necessarily in that order.

DfT's suggestion has far more merit than the arcane prejudices spouted there. 

The four Home Nations have achieved diddly squat as separate teams for nigh on 50 years. The international game passes them all by but what the hell, let's keep on doing what we've always done.

Still in your case, as a Celtic supporter, I can understand it. With a Scottish League your club can qualify for Europe (somehow) and kid yourself on that yours is a "Big Club".

Wake up, smell the coffee and consider the future.
		
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Why on earth would I want my country to be dissolved and become a team GB? Why?

It would be akin to Liverpool joining with Man U or Celtic with The Rangers.

This has hee haw to do with my support domestic team wise and everything to do with the fact I have no wish to support a team that I have no affiliation to and never will.

We may not achieve anything but by Christ I have fun and joy (and misery) watching MY country play football and long may that continue thank you.


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 9, 2014)

Slime said:



			You'd probably find that view is only supported by those from Scotland and Wales because it would give them a team to cheer for that had a chance of qualifying for something.
English folk already have one.


*Slime*.
		
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Not really, I think DFT is on his own with this one.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 9, 2014)

Slime said:



			You'd probably find that view is only supported by those from Scotland and Wales because it would give them a team to cheer for that had a chance of qualifying for something.
English folk already have one.


*Slime*.
		
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The last competition England won was 48 Years ago


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 9, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The last competition England won was 48 Years ago
		
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It appears that I, an Englishman, an the only one agreeing with you.

Still, as I am sure you will concur, with age comes wisdom.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 9, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			It appears that I, an Englishman, an the only one agreeing with you.

Still, as I am sure you will concur, with age comes wisdom.
		
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It does, but wisdom goes right oot the window when it comes to fitba.

I think a British team would be able to compete with  top teams like Belgium, Columbia and the USA.


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## Slime (Aug 9, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The last competition England won was 48 Years ago
		
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Correct. But England does qualify for major tournaments on a regular basis.
If there was a British team it would effectively be England with Gareth Bale.


*Slime*.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 9, 2014)

Slime said:



			Correct. But England does qualify for major tournaments on a regular basis.
If there was a British team it would effectively be England with Gareth Bale.


*Slime*.
		
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I think you have forgotten Scott Broon.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 9, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I think you have forgotten Scott Broon.
		
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Not forgotten - wouldn't get in a GB team


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not forgotten - wouldn't get in a GB team
		
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I was joking


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 9, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			It does, but wisdom goes right oot the window when it comes to fitba.

I think a British team would be able to compete with  top teams like Belgium, Columbia and the USA.
		
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Whoa! 

Steady there, those are some real giants you are chucking in . I think Team GB could be better off playing Slovenia or perhaps Norway.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 9, 2014)

It will never happen for a myriad of reasons and to be honest I don't want it. I would rather see Celtic and Rangers (if and when they return) and the other protaganists sort themselves up. There are some good up and coming players in Scotland as Strachan has shown and they need to play regularly, progress and make the Scottish league and the national side improve. An idealistic view I know. A national league will never happen


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 10, 2014)

Great to see the Jambos win the big game today.
Two goals in the last minute, that's an exciting finish.


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## Dodger (Aug 10, 2014)

::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 10, 2014)

Dodger said:









::rofl::rofl::rofl:
		
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More likely looking at the Sits.Vac.
I hear West Ham will be looking for a manager soon.


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## Dodger (Aug 10, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			More likely looking at the Sits.Vac.
I hear West Ham will be looking for a manager soon.
		
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It would be a disaster if he was punted.

He's a cracking manager.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 11, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			More likely looking at the Sits.Vac.
I hear West Ham will be looking for a manager soon.
		
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The Huddersfield job has suddenly opened up for him........manager sacked after first game of the season.....seems like a well run club.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not forgotten - wouldn't get in a GB team
		
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Nah - wrong Scott Brown - watch out for the 20yr old central midfielder plying his trade with...St Johnstone.  Looks a really good prospect


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 11, 2014)

Dodger said:



			It would be a disaster if he was punted.

He's a cracking manager.
		
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Aye right - as in he's in charge as the cracks widen in the Ibrox stands.  And sorry Ally - but suggesting that press focus on Charlie Green's interest in returning to the club distracted his players - won't get a load of sympathy from wider Scottish football (though in truth it is rather unbelievable)


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 11, 2014)

Rangers Â£10m share flotation failed miserably and Green suddenly appears clutching Â£10m.
Sounds like even more funny business going on.


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## Dodger (Aug 11, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Aye right - as in he's in charge as the cracks widen in the Ibrox stands.  And sorry Ally - but suggesting that press focus on Charlie Green's interest in returning to the club distracted his players - won't get a load of sympathy from wider Scottish football (though in truth it is rather unbelievable)
		
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Woooooosssshhhh!!


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## chris661 (Aug 11, 2014)

Dodger said:



			It would be a disaster if he was punted.

He's a cracking manager.
		
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Certainly for one side of Glasgow :rofl:


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 11, 2014)

Poor Ally.

One of the greatest ever goalscorers in Scottish football, fresh from back to back promotions, just lost first league match in 15 months and still derided by internet trolls purely because of their hatred for the club he played for and now manages.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 11, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Poor Ally.

One of the greatest ever goalscorers in Scottish football, fresh from back to back promotions, just lost first league match in 15 months and still derided by internet trolls purely because of their hatred for the club he played for and now manages.
		
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Ally was a hero of mine back in the day when he played for Saints - and when he played for Scotland.  Don't think his job is made any easier simply by the expectations of the fans.  Rangers *should* be able to win the Scottish Championship - maybe not at a canter but surely at a trot - and maybe they will.  In truth perhaps just a bit too much schadenfreude going around Scottish football these last few years - even if by some of the words and actions of both Glasgow clubs in the lead up to the debacle they part deserve some.


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## gdunc79 (Aug 11, 2014)

At last Rangers are facing some sort of challenge on the pitch (as well as off it but that much is a given!!) and it looks like it has come as a bit of a shock to them. Don't know why as Ally reminded them last week that they might not go the whole season unbeaten. :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2014)

Was McCoist cheered by Celtic fans when playing for Scotland ? He certainly seems to get a lot of stick


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 11, 2014)

I think taking his broke third division team for an overnight stay at Turnberry to rest up from the arduous journey from Glasgow to Stranraer showed what an astute manager Ally was.


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## Dodger (Aug 11, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Poor Ally.

One of the greatest ever goalscorers in Scottish football, fresh from back to back promotions, just lost first league match in 15 months and still derided by internet trolls purely because of their hatred for the club he played for and now manages.
		
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You can add the fact that he's a snidey sleekit fud as well.:thup:


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 17, 2014)

Nice wee win for Hearts against Hibs in Britain's most exciting league.
Joint leaders with Queen of the South and Raith Rovers

3 goals, 11 shots on target, 40 fouls and two sent off.........proper mens fitba.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 17, 2014)

Sounds like a real derby played with commitment and passion. My mate Fish will be miserable then as a Hibbie


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 17, 2014)

I think Hibs did well to instal Alan Stubbs as manager good long term bet.

I see Hearts have sold over 14,000 season tickets. 
The club will soon be owned by the fans and I hope they get the success they deserve.

I watched the Falkirk v Rangers match the other night.
Poor result for Falkirk who bossed the game for 75 minutes and looked really good.
They lost a goal to a cruel deflection and it just knocked the stuffing right out of them.

Rangers were dreadful, sad to see a once great team playing such rubbish football.
Miller and Boyd were very poor both well past their sell by date.


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## Foxholer (Aug 17, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Nice wee win for Hearts against Hibs in *Britain's most exciting league*.
Joint leaders with Queen of the South and Raith Rovers

3 goals, 11 shots on target, 40 fouls and two sent off.........proper mens fitba.
		
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Most competitive - perhaps (I've actually stated that!).
Most exciting  - err, nope!


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 17, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Nice wee win for Hearts against Hibs in Britain's most exciting league.
Joint leaders with Queen of the South and Raith Rovers

*3 goals, 11 shots on target, 40 fouls and two sent off.........proper mens fitba.*

Click to expand...

Which part of that sentence qualifies it as "proper" football ? 

3 goals in the match today at Anfield - 12 shots on target - so it's the fouling and sending people off that makes it "proper" 

Or is it because it's so poor they can't even tackle properly ?


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 17, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Most competitive - perhaps (I've actually stated that!).
Most exciting  - err, nope!
		
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Well I watched the Swansea backs pass the ball to each other for about 15 passes yesterday. No attempt by the ManU players to win the ball.
I can assure you that was sleep inducing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 17, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Well I watched the Swansea backs pass the ball to each other for about 15 passes yesterday. No attempt by the ManU players to win the ball.
I can assure you that was sleep inducing.
		
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That's called keeping possession of the football - one of the qualities of the game of football - as opposed to thumping it up field all day long.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Which part of that sentence qualifies it as "proper" football ? 

3 goals in the match today at Anfield - 12 shots on target - so it's the fouling and sending people off that makes it "proper" 

Or is it because it's so poor they can't even tackle properly ?
		
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Steady on Phill,
I am old enough to remember Crazy Horse and how he got his nickname.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 17, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Steady on Phill,
I am old enough to remember Crazy Horse and how he got his nickname.

Click to expand...

Can add Tommy Smith and Souness to that


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 17, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Steady on Phill,
I am old enough to remember Crazy Horse and how he got his nickname.

Click to expand...


Yes a rugby tackle back in the 70's - doesn't make my point any less valid


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 17, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Can add Tommy Smith and Souness to that
		
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Both who tackled very hard and took man and ball.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes a rugby tackle back in the 70's - doesn't make my point any less valid
		
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Don't see the problem. Fiercely competitive Edinburgh derby. Always going to be fouls and a passionate air on and off the pitch. Seems to have been a full blooded match. Possession with no end ball is more sleep inducing than two team going at it hammer and tongs. Lets face it fifteen passes across the back four, midfield and the keeper to get the ball just into the opponents half where it breaks down. High level stuff for the stattos only


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 17, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Don't see the problem. Fiercely competitive Edinburgh derby. Always going to be fouls and a passionate air on and off the pitch. Seems to have been a full blooded match. Possession with no end ball is more sleep inducing than two team going at it hammer and tongs. Lets face it fifteen passes across the back four, midfield and the keeper to get the ball just into the opponents half where it breaks down. High level stuff for the stattos only
		
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When did anyone say it was a problem ? 

I just asked why it's proper football because it includes lots of fouls and red cards ? 

Swansea played very well yesterday and got a win against a bigger team - certainly no sleep was happening for their fans.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When did anyone say it was a problem ? 

I just asked why it's proper football because it includes lots of fouls and red cards ? 

Swansea played very well yesterday and got a win against a bigger team - certainly no sleep was happening for their fans.
		
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So what makes it not proper football and to be honest what the hell is that anyway?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 17, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			So what makes it not proper football and to be honest what the hell is that anyway?
		
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Ask Doon - he is the one that called it proper football


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ask Doon - he is the one that called it proper football
		
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But your the one mocking it.


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## chris661 (Aug 17, 2014)

Do you two really need to infect every thread with your needless and incessant bickering. Why don't you do everyone else on the forum a favour and stick each other on ignore and give us all a break.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes a rugby tackle back in the 70's - doesn't make my point any less valid
		
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A rugby tackle...........he jumped on the forwards back after he skinned him, hence Crazy Horse.
Even the rugger guys would see that as unsporting.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 17, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			A rugby tackle...........he jumped on the forwards back after he skinned him, hence Crazy Horse.
Even the rugger guys would see that as unsporting.
		
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Oh certainly was a "crazy tackle" - not think it wasn't long after that he was moved into the back four - turning speed of an oil tanker at times


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## BTatHome (Aug 17, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Do you two really need to infect every thread with your needless and incessant bickering. Why don't you do everyone else on the forum a favour and stick each other on ignore and give us all a break.
		
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Exactly what I was thinking !


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 17, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Do you two really need to infect every thread with your needless and incessant bickering. Why don't you do everyone else on the forum a favour and stick each other on ignore and give us all a break.
		
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I'm not bickering. Just intrigued to know what "proper football". It is a forum after all and you seem to be the only mod that ever has the issue.

As a side note I've watched a bit of the Scottish football this season and while the quality hasn't been great, it seems that all the teams are actually playing for a win. I've not seen a game where a team has really sat back and played for a draw. Quite refreshing


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 17, 2014)

I think 'proper football' is about desperately trying to win for your team and the fans/friends/relatives/workmates etc.

Football is so rich these days it is difficult to recognise it from the days of my youth when it used to be the game of the common/working man/woman.

Fly by night players form countries thousands of miles from the fan base of clubs turn up take the eye watering money offered to them and then quickly go home.
One even wanted to leave Newcastle because the disrespected him by forgetting his birthday.

Â£75.00 a ticket to watch the quality of the likes of West Ham...........as they say down there.........yer avin a laff.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 17, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I think 'proper football' is about desperately trying to win for your team and the fans/friends/relatives/workmates etc.

Football is so rich these days it is difficult to recognise it from the days of my youth when it used to be the game of the common/working man/woman.

Fly by night players form countries thousands of miles from the fan base of clubs turn up take the eye watering money offered to them and then quickly go home.
One even wanted to leave Newcastle because the disrespected him by forgetting his birthday.

Â£75.00 a ticket to watch the quality of the likes of West Ham...........as they say down there.........yer avin a laff.
		
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Couldn't agree more. My own side had a mare last year, with three managers, several senior players clearly not wanting to put a shift in and we were rubbish. The manager (who I don't think is the right man.. that's another topic) has started this season with a raft of youngsters. We've lost both games but they've put a shift in and look like they want to play for the club. As long as they put a performance in, many of our fans will put up with bad results, certainly short term and take the longer term view we need to get worse before we get better again


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## Phil2511 (Aug 17, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			you seem to be the only mod that ever has the issue.
		
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Actually as you are well aware he is not the only mod or member, ALL of the moderator team and there's a reply before yours which openly shows members are fed up with it. 

So take the advice you've been given on board or not. Up to you really Homer.


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## Adi2Dassler (Aug 18, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Nice wee win for Hearts against Hibs in Britain's most exciting league.
Joint leaders with Queen of the South and Raith Rovers

3 goals, 11 shots on target, 40 fouls and two sent off.........proper mens fitba.
		
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Given it's the second tier of Scottish football I thought the quality wasn't too bad, but it would appear I'm in the minority of Hibs supporters.A draw would have been fair too, but the Indian sign still lingers over my club in derby matches.



HomerJSimpson said:



			Sounds like a real derby played with commitment and passion. My mate Fish will be miserable then as a Hibbie
		
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Big Fish from Fife?Does guided tours around Scotland? Good lad.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 18, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Given it's the second tier of Scottish football I thought the quality wasn't too bad, but it would appear I'm in the minority of Hibs supporters.A draw would have been fair too, but the Indian sign still lingers over my club in derby matches.



Big Fish from Fife?Does guided tours around Scotland? Good lad.
		
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Fish aka the Haddington Bear, aka rock singer from Marillion and now enjoys a successful solo career. He was far from happy and last hear dof consoling himself with a bottle of Chilean Red


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## Adi2Dassler (Aug 18, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Fish aka the Haddington Bear, aka rock singer from Marillion and now enjoys a successful solo career. He was far from happy and last hear dof consoling himself with a bottle of Chilean Red
		
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Ah, that fish.Not been seen at ER in a while if I'm not mistaken.


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## Foxholer (Aug 18, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Well I watched the Swansea backs pass the ball to each other for about 15 passes yesterday. No attempt by the ManU players to win the ball.
I can assure you that was sleep inducing.
		
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Indeed, I'm inclined to agree - though if it only happens occasionally, I can forgive it.

That was what the majority of Italian Football was like when I watched it in the 90s and I haven't watched much of it since!

Haven't seen enough German Football to write that off, but Spanish stuff, mainly at the top, is my 'preference' to simply watch - for entertainment as opposed to actually follow/support. Best  balance of skill, speed, possession and probing for me. Hugely disappointed in the amount of diving though! 

EPL is pretty good, but cheating - diving, leaning, holding etc - still isn't dealt with how I'd like (sin bin) as well as the occasional pedestrian 'build-up' and hopeless hopeful balls! Mind you, I can remember watching some games when I felt like shouting 'just shoot!' when the ball was being passed around looking for the 'perfect magic goal' opportunity!


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 18, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Ah, that fish.Not been seen at ER in a while if I'm not mistaken.
		
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He was there a few times last season between tour dates!!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 18, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Indeed, I'm inclined to agree - though if it only happens occasionally, I can forgive it.

That was what the majority of Italian Football was like when I watched it in the 90s and I haven't watched much of it since!

Haven't seen enough German Football to write that off, but Spanish stuff, mainly at the top, is my 'preference' to simply watch - for entertainment as opposed to actually follow/support. Best  balance of skill, speed, possession and probing for me. Hugely disappointed in the amount of diving though! 

EPL is pretty good, but cheating - diving, leaning, holding etc - still isn't dealt with how I'd like (sin bin) as well as the occasional pedestrian 'build-up' and hopeless hopeful balls! Mind you, I can remember watching some games when I felt like shouting 'just shoot!' when the ball was being passed around looking for the 'perfect magic goal' opportunity!
		
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It's quite interesting that the top Spanish teams is your preference then go on to mention the ball being passed around in the EPL looking for the "perfect magical goal" and also sleep inducing when the one team that does it more than most is - Barcelona


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 18, 2014)

An another thing

How come yoose yins have got fellony foam and we havenae.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 18, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			An another thing

How come yoose yins have got fellony foam and we havenae.
		
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Im guessing because our prem have decided to use it and your guys haven't ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 18, 2014)

Looking for a contender of team goal of the year? Tonight's from Chelsea right up there. That's how to make a passing move effective


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## Foxholer (Aug 19, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Nice wee win for Hearts against Hibs in Britain's most exciting league.
Joint leaders with Queen of the South and Raith Rovers

3 goals, 11 shots on target, 40 fouls and two sent off.........proper mens fitba.
		
Click to expand...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28829381

A slightly more reasoned (well, to my mind) report!


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 19, 2014)

Foxholer said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28829381

A slightly more reasoned (well, to my mind) report!
		
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Och did you not notice that it was written by an English guy [Tom English]

Spoke to someone at the game and he did say it was a bit grim.


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## CMAC (Aug 20, 2014)

Foxholer said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28829381

A slightly more reasoned (well, to my mind) report!
		
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embarrassing........and right at the heart of the OP


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 20, 2014)

At least the pitchside advertising in Scottish games (where there is any ) is static, and not as bleedin' irritating and distracting as the flashing, ever moving stuff pitchside of EPL clubs.  

I also read that Chelsea have new LED floodlighting that also lights up the first ten rows of seating.  At least that'll keep the narcissists in these rows happy as they'll be easy to spot and their own vids of players taking a throw in (fascinating these) will be beautifully lit.  Never mind that one of the great pleasures of watching a night game under floodlights is how the pitch is lit and the focus of attention in the dark.  Someone suggested that watching Chelsea at night sitting in the front rows will be like sitting in the cinema watching a film with the auditorium lights on.

I can't see any Scottish club 'investing' in such lighting for a long time.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 20, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			At least the pitchside advertising in Scottish games (where there is any ) is static, and not as bleedin' irritating and distracting as the flashing, ever moving stuff pitchside of EPL clubs.  

I also read that Chelsea have new LED floodlighting that also lights up the first ten rows of seating.  At least that'll keep the narcissists in these rows happy as they'll be easy to spot and their own vids of players taking a throw in (fascinating these) will be beautifully lit.  Never mind that one of the great pleasures of watching a night game under floodlights is how the pitch is lit and the focus of attention in the dark.  Someone suggested that watching Chelsea at night sitting in the front rows will be like sitting in the cinema watching a film with the auditorium lights on.

I can't see any Scottish club 'investing' in such lighting for a long time.
		
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Has it really reached the level of the "advertising boards" at grounds to try and find something that is better in Scottish football :rofl:


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## Dodger (Aug 20, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Och did you not notice that it was written by an English guy [Tom English]

Spoke to someone at the game and he did say it was a bit grim.
		
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He's Oirish Doon.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 20, 2014)

That moving pitch side advertising is truly awful.
All done for the TV watchers and sod the actual fans in the ground.

Are clubs that desperate for money that they spoil the game for all concerned.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 20, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			That moving pitch side advertising is truly awful.
All done for the TV watchers and sod the actual fans in the ground.

Are clubs that desperate for money that they spoil the game for all concerned.
		
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I guess most football fans are too busy concentrating on the actual football going on 

Never noticed the advertising much both watching at home or at the ground 

How exactly does it effect the fans at the ground ?!


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## Slab (Aug 20, 2014)

The electronic hoardings are designed to get your attention but there seems little in the way of guidelines as to what's permissible (I've even seen a rolling football while play is underway and background colours that completely mask/clash with team shirts)


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 20, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Has it really reached the level of the "advertising boards" at grounds to try and find something that is better in Scottish football :rofl:
		
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Maybe just a wee indication of how Scottish football likes (has) to keep it simple


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 20, 2014)

Slab said:



			The electronic hoardings are designed to get your attention but there seems little in the way of guidelines as to what's permissible (I've even seen a rolling football while play is underway and background colours that completely mask/clash with team shirts)
		
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I agree. Even with the most exciting games (not that Fulham had many last year) these things still capture the eye and take you away from the action. Of course that's exactly what they're supposed to do but annoying. I can remember the good(??) old days when they were in the old Div 4 and there was a static advert for years in the corner of the Putney End at the Cottage so it could be easily seen by the Fulham fans from their end, advertising the local Samaritans.

I suppose these hoardings make a change from reading the programme if the game's dull


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 20, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Maybe just a wee indication of how Scottish football likes (has) to keep it simple 

Click to expand...


Or they can't get the advertising required. 

All that should matter is the 22 people kicking the ball. That's the crucial part


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## Slab (Aug 20, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or they can't get the advertising required. 

*All that should matter is the 22 people kicking the ball. That's the crucial part*

Click to expand...

Shame then that the clubs themselves don't think so


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 20, 2014)

Slab said:



			The electronic hoardings are designed to get your attention but there seems little in the way of guidelines as to what's permissible (I've even seen a rolling football while play is underway and background colours that completely mask/clash with team shirts)
		
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Exactly why I dislike them.

Not so bad when you are sitting high up but more distracting when nearer ground level.
They really cheapen the product IMO.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 20, 2014)

Slab said:



			Shame then that the clubs themselves don't think so
		
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I'm pretty sure that most clubs will understand that without those 22 men everything else is irrelevant - advertising isn't just all over football - look at the advertising around a golf tournament and on the players themselves , in fact pick any sport. 

Advertising brings in revenue to enable the tournaments or teams etc to bring in the best quality to ensure the best event they can put on

If people are far too busy concentrating on that advertising then 

1. What's going on during the game is rubbish quality 

2. They have no interest in the game 

3. They have no attention span at all

You go to watch the sport - watch the sport.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 20, 2014)

If these things are distracting your attention maybe you should not be watching the game. 

After all if the game is that bad it is time to either turn off the telly or, if at the game, have a chat with your mate. With my team I have had plenty of experience of this!

I can honestly say that, neither on TV or at live matches, the hoardings have never bothered me. Their effectiveness is,I would think, questionable as I can never remember who is advertising on them.


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## Slab (Aug 20, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm pretty sure that most clubs will understand that without those 22 men everything else is irrelevant - advertising isn't just all over football - look at the advertising around a golf tournament and on the players themselves , in fact pick any sport. 

Advertising brings in revenue to enable the tournaments or teams etc to bring in the best quality to ensure the best event they can put on

If people are far too busy concentrating on that advertising then 

1. What's going on during the game is rubbish quality 

2. They have no interest in the game 

3. They have no attention span at all

You go to watch the sport - watch the sport.
		
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Ah c'mon now Phil did you really think we needed to be told that advertising brings in revenue, really who'd have thunk it! 

Its not about being too busy concentrating on ads, its about being _distracted _by them (with the clubs blessing)

So in the name of revenue you're happy to have an electronic football roll across a hoarding in the opposite direction to the ball in play? or a red flashing hoarding behind the Liverpool player in possession (there's a reason clubs have an away strip you know)

And well done on the veiled insult about our attention spans, great contribution, take a boo son!


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 20, 2014)

Slab said:



			Ah c'mon now Phil did you really think we needed to be told that advertising brings in revenue, really who'd have thunk it! 

Its not about being too busy concentrating on ads, its about being _distracted _by them (with the clubs blessing)

So in the name of revenue you're happy to have an electronic football roll across a hoarding in the opposite direction to the ball in play? or a red flashing hoarding behind the Liverpool player in possession (there's a reason clubs have an away strip you know)

And well done on the veiled insult about our attention spans, great contribution, take a boo son!
		
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There was no veiled insult anywhere 

Liverpool have the advertising hoardings and have done for years 

Makes no difference to me or distracts me because I'm too busy concentrating on the game - if people are being distracted that means the advertising is prob better than the sport that is going on or are easily distracted 

I watch the football that's what I'm there to watch.


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## Foxholer (Aug 20, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's quite interesting that the top Spanish teams is your preference then go on to mention the ball being passed around in the EPL looking for the "perfect magical goal" and also sleep inducing when the one team that does it more than most is - Barcelona 

Click to expand...

Guilty as charged! :rofl: Though they weren't always like that - or at least not that bad! 

Maybe it was just being in the cold (and often breezy) stadium watching (at different times) Henry, Vieirra, Fabregas, Pires, RVP and co bop it about when there seemed so many chances for a bit of their imagination to create a goal.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 20, 2014)

Advertising = revenue for clubs. Wow. Shock horror

It's a given that clubs, whatever level and whether static or high tec electronic, need the revenue generated, perhaps more so th elower down the pyramid you go. To say you should be focused soley on the 22 players and the game is a rather glib repsonse. Plenty of breaks in play, and to be honest, and the point that the OP on this subject was making, is that sometimes these are just so garish you cannot help but see them. I defy anyone to watch an entire match and not let their eyes get distracted. Bit like eating a donut and not licking the sugar off your lips


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 20, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Advertising = revenue for clubs. Wow. Shock horror

It's a given that clubs, whatever level and whether static or high tec electronic, need the revenue generated, perhaps more so th elower down the pyramid you go. To say you should be focused soley on the 22 players and the game is a rather glib repsonse. Plenty of breaks in play, and to be honest, and the point that the OP on this subject was making, is that sometimes these are just so garish you cannot help but see them. I defy anyone to watch an entire match and not let their eyes get distracted. Bit like eating a donut and not licking the sugar off your lips
		
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See them.......... yes.

Distracted by them........no!

After all I believe they are known as peripheral advertising so they are not intended to hold your attention for more than 1-2 seconds.

You might just as easily be distracted by the faces in the crowd.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 20, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			You might just as easily be distracted by the faces in the crowd.
		
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Will be if EPL TV coverage goes down the World Cup route - giving us loads of crowd and crowd emotion close up and super slomo shots - though finding the gamerous lassies might not be so easy at some EPL grounds.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 20, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Will be if EPL TV coverage goes down the World Cup route - giving us loads of crowd and crowd emotion close up and super slomo shots - though finding the gamerous lassies might not be so easy at some EPL grounds.
		
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Fair comment but that is a criticism that needs to be aimed at the TV producers rather than the EPL or the clubs.

As for the glamorous lassies that may be more than just not so easy.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 20, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Fair comment but that is a criticism that needs to be aimed at the TV producers rather than the EPL or the clubs.

As for the glamorous lassies that may be more than just not so easy.
		
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Super slomo is one reason EPL clubs like Chelsea are boosting their floodlighting - supports better super slomo as less grainy (apparently)


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 20, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Super slomo is one reason EPL clubs like Chelsea are boosting their floodlighting - supports better super slomo as less grainy (apparently)
		
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Some of the players I have seen over the years would not have needed super slo-mo!


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## CMAC (Aug 20, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Super slomo is one reason EPL clubs like Chelsea are boosting their floodlighting - supports better super slomo as less grainy (apparently)
		
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Good one...


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## Dodger (Aug 20, 2014)

Great to see the Mighty Glasgow Celtic again solely keeping Scotland's flag flying again in Europe.

Improving with every game and tonight keeps us in with a chance of making it to the group stages


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 20, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Great to see the Mighty Glasgow Celtic again solely keeping Scotland's flag flying again in Europe.

Improving with every game and tonight keeps us in with a chance of making it to the group stages
		
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Important away goal so hopefully they can go on and qualify


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 20, 2014)

With my impeccable sense of timing I mentioned that I quite liked the look of the new Celtic management team and team players.
Then they go and lose 6-1 over two legs.

Tonight may just be the bump start that they required.
Good result for Arsenal in Turkey as well.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 20, 2014)

Big first step for them - taken their chance at the moment 

The away goal could be crucial


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 20, 2014)

Big crowd, away goal in the bag and another game to get the team playing together. It could be Celtic's night next week. Hope so. Always good to see any British side in Europe


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 21, 2014)

Well done Celtic


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## CMAC (Aug 21, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



*Important away goal* so hopefully they can go on and qualify
		
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HomerJSimpson said:



			Big crowd, *away goal in the bag* and another game to get the team playing together. It could be Celtic's night next week. Hope so. Always good to see any British side in Europe
		
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couldn't agree more
couldn't agree more


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 21, 2014)

Â£12,000,000.00 for Jordan Rhodes.
I had no idea he was THAT good.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2014)

Georgios Samaras has left Celtic to West Brom on a free transfer 

Will be interesting to see how he does in the Prem after scoring well in the SPL


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Georgios Samaras has left Celtic to West Brom on a free transfer 

Will be interesting to see how he does in the Prem after scoring well in the SPL
		
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Never really rated him. No pace, but holds the ball up well.
Certainly not a goalscorer. He would struggle in the Sky Bet league far less Barclays.
The Baggies only bought his because he cost nothing.


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## Dodger (Aug 22, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Never really rated him. No pace, but holds the ball up well.
Certainly not a goalscorer. He would struggle in the Sky Bet league far less Barclays.
The Baggies only bought his because he cost nothing.
		
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Clueless post.

Fine signing for WBA.Greek international and a very decent footballer who on his day can be unplayable.Those days are not frequent but he's a player who will be able to fulfill a role in the EPL never mind the Sky Bet.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Never really rated him. No pace, but holds the ball up well.
Certainly not a goalscorer. He would struggle in the Sky Bet league far less Barclays.
The Baggies only bought his because he cost nothing.
		
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Certainly looks like he has all the ability to be a powerful player but then looks like he is made of paper when playing


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 22, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Clueless post.

Fine signing for WBA.Greek international and a very decent footballer who on his day can be unplayable.Those days are not frequent but he's a player who will be able to fulfill a role in the EPL never mind the Sky Bet.
		
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Didn't look it last time at Man City 54 games & 8 goals and generally looked out of his depth whenever I saw him.

DfT is right, the Baggies took him because he cost nothing.


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## Dodger (Aug 22, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Didn't look it last time at Man City 54 games & 8 goals and generally looked out of his depth whenever I saw him.

DfT is right, the Baggies took him because he cost nothing.
		
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The only correct part of his post was that he's not a goalscorer.

78 caps suggest he'll not struggle at a level of WBA as he didn't for the Hoops. Sure he's not 30 yet so decent punt especially without a transfer fee.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 22, 2014)

Dodger said:



			The only correct part of his post was that he's not a goalscorer.

78 caps suggest he'll not struggle at a level of WBA as he didn't for the Hoops. Sure he's not 30 yet so decent punt especially without a transfer fee.
		
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Trust me the bit about his being free meaning the Albion went after him is true.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2014)

Was he offered a new contract at Celtic ?


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## Dodger (Aug 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Was he offered a new contract at Celtic ?
		
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No.....costs being the issue I believe.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2014)

Dodger said:



			No.....costs being the issue I believe.
		
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Cutting costs or he wanted an increase in wages ?

Seems he is a player rated so not sure why he would be let go ?


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## Dodger (Aug 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Cutting costs or he wanted an increase in wages ?

Seems he is a player rated so not sure why he would be let go ?
		
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Cutting.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 22, 2014)

Dodger said:



			The only correct part of his post was that he's not a goalscorer.

78 caps suggest he'll not struggle at a level of WBA as he didn't for the Hoops. Sure he's not 30 yet so decent punt especially without a transfer fee.
		
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I would disagree with that, I said that he holds the ball up well:lol:


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Cutting.
		
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Makes sense I suppose if he is a high earner but it's got to be hard to compete in the CL if cutting costs means you lose one of your main strikers


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 22, 2014)

Think its good business for West Brom. I think he'll do a decent job although not convinced he'll score plenty. Still if he makes chances with the hold up play for others then great.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 23, 2014)

I notice Hull have missed the first Â£1m drip payment to Dundee United for Andy Robertson but are still trying to buy another player for Â£10m.

Sounds like the business model of the madhouse. If you can't afford it don't buy it.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 23, 2014)

Why are there so many empty seats at Villa Park for the game against Newcastle?

Two of the Barclay League's biggest fan bases but it looks like there is only 35,000 watching.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 23, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Why are there so many empty seats at Villa Park for the game against Newcastle?

Two of the Barclay League's biggest fan bases but it looks like there is only 35,000 watching.
		
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Villa have been suffering low crowds for a while - biggest fan bases ? Newcastle maybe but not sure about Villa

And maybe the SPL isnt a one horse race 

ICT beat Celtic and are top of the SPL


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 23, 2014)

Official attendance just over 30,000, that's very poor for this early in the season.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 23, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Official attendance just over 30,000, that's very poor for this early in the season.
		
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Just a couple thousand below the average from last season - when your teams isnt playing fantastically the figures will drop.

they have regualry had attendances of 30 thousand at home over the years.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 23, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just a couple thousand below the average from last season - when your teams isnt playing fantastically the figures will drop.

they have regualry had attendances of 30 thousand at home over the years.
		
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Undoubtedly the Toon would have brought many more but imagine there was silly ticket allocations. Playing the football Villa have the last few years I can see why there is empty seats. I think they'll have a long season


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 23, 2014)

What on earth has happened to Fulham and Blackpool.

Joint bottom of the Sky Bet league.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 23, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			What on earth has happened to Fulham and Blackpool.

Joint bottom of the Sky Bet league.
		
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Blackpool have had their squad gutted by their owner and have just about enough players to get a team 

And Fulham it appears seem to suffering under Magath tactics and blew a load of money on a striker when the squad needed a lot of work.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 23, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blackpool have had their squad gutted by their owner and have just about enough players to get a team 

And Fulham it appears seem to suffering under Magath tactics and blew a load of money on a striker when the squad needed a lot of work.
		
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MAGATH OUT. Bloke's clueless. Hawkeye and I were having this discussion this morning. He's still tinkering with line ups and dropping those players that have been doing well. He has no idea how cut throat the championship is and while I admire him playing the kids and planning for the future he's not the right man. I fear for us again this year. Not sure the owner has the true interests of the club at heart and looking for the potential to sell the Cottage for real estate. Still we've been down that road before


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## Fish (Aug 23, 2014)

If Celtic were in the PL, they'd be mid-table at best and wopuld never qulaify for Europe..


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 23, 2014)

Fish said:



			If Celtic were in the PL, they'd be mid-table at best and wopuld never qulaify for Europe..
		
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At the moment would they even be in the Prem ?


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## Dodger (Aug 23, 2014)

Fish said:



			If Celtic were in the PL, they'd be mid-table at best and wopuld never qulaify for Europe..
		
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If my granny had baws she'd........

How many times a year do folk need to go down this route?

Fact of the matter is if they were admitted to the league within 3 years they would become  bigger than all the teams in that league bar a couple.

Another fact is that they won't be offered that chance....sadly.


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## Fish (Aug 23, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			At the moment would they even be in the Prem ?
		
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Briefly when placed in if they merged only to reside in the Championship :smirk:


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 23, 2014)

Dodger said:



			If my granny had baws she'd........

How many times a year do folk need to go down this route?

Fact of the matter is if they were admitted to the league within 3 years they would become  bigger than all the teams in that league bar a couple.

Another fact is that they won't be offered that chance....sadly.
		
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Well the first bit is more opinion than fact 

The second bit you are prob right - but I don't think Celtic would want to join the EPL anyway


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## Dodger (Aug 23, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well the first bit is more opinion than fact 

The second bit you are prob right - but I don't think Celtic would want to join the EPL anyway
		
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Of course they would. Without a shadow of doubt they would.

Our scene is dead and has been for a long time and it would not recover when the filth return.

Today we played a 2nd string, concentrating on the 15m prize of next week safe in the knowledge that a defeat today meant nothing as we'll still be too strong for the rest over the season.

Great fun.... Not.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 23, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Of course they would. Without a shadow of doubt they would.

Our scene is dead and has been for a long time and it would recover when the filth return.

Today we played a 2nd string, concentrating on the 15m prize of next week safe in the knowledge that a defeat today meant nothing as we'll still be too strong for the rest over the season.

Great fun.... Not.
		
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But going into the Prem would stop the going into Europe and winning any trophies 

Would possibly put you alongside teams like Newcastle , Villa , West Ham at best 

In my opinion off course based on the Forbes/Deloitte list of top clubs


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## Dodger (Aug 23, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But going into the Prem would stop the going into Europe and winning any trophies 

Would possibly put you alongside teams like Newcastle , Villa , West Ham at best 

In my opinion off course based on the Forbes/Deloitte list of top clubs
		
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As I said for the 1st 2 or 3 seasons.

I am not sure folk down south realise what a huge huge club it is. I have no doubt they would be a british super power but as I say it's all a waste of breath talking about it as it'll not be happening.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 23, 2014)

Dodger said:



			As I said for the 1st 2 or 3 seasons.

I am not sure folk down south realise what a huge huge club it is. I have no doubt they would be a british super power but as I say it's all a waste of breath talking about it as it'll not be happening.
		
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Depends on what you are using to judge how big a club is ? 

What makes Celtic bigger than Newcastle for example ? Same size ground and fan base - Newcastle prob have a bit more money.

Cant see any reason why Celtic would get anywhere near the Top 8 clubs - unless there is something missing ?

What would attract players to play for Celtic ?


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## Dodger (Aug 23, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Depends on what you are using to judge how big a club is ? 

What makes Celtic bigger than Newcastle for example ? Same size ground and fan base - Newcastle prob have a bit more money.

Cant see any reason why Celtic would get anywhere near the Top 8 clubs - unless there is something missing ?

What would attract players to play for Celtic ?
		
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Same what??

After reading that I know it's pointless debating with someone with a lack of knowledge. Same ground size and fan base as Newcastle eh?

Jeesus.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 23, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Same what??

After reading that I know it's pointless debating with someone with a lack of knowledge. Same ground size and fan base as Newcastle eh?

Jeesus.
		
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So why would they become of the biggest in the prem then ? 

What are your reasons ? Genuine question 

Im just struggling to see why the top players would go there - the players that are essential to get clubs to the top level in the prem 

And which two clubs would be above Celtic after 2 or 3 seasons ?

http://talksport.com/magazine/big-p...-liverpool-arsenal-barca-real-or-chelsea?p=12


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 23, 2014)

There is a story going round up here that Super Ally McCoist is being linked to the Palace managers job.

Wow.


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## ger147 (Aug 23, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			There is a story going round up here that Super Ally McCoist is being linked to the Palace managers job.

Wow.
		
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Which Easdale brother started that rumour?


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 23, 2014)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tml?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...e-consider-ally-mccoist--exclusive-9686808.ht

It is in the papers so it must be true.:angry:


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 24, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			There is a story going round up here that Super Ally McCoist is being linked to the Palace managers job.

Wow.
		
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What is so shocking about it ?

Surely as a manager he hasnt done a bad job ? Would you be shocked because Lennon is also linked


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 24, 2014)

Just shocked that he would consider leaving such a big club for Palace.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 24, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Just shocked that he would consider leaving such a big club for Palace.

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Its a massive step up for him going from the Scottish First Div to the Prem


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 24, 2014)

I wonder how many experts on here would have predicted the top 5 teams in the Barclays, Sky Bet and SPL leagues at this stage.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 24, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I wonder how many experts on here would have predicted the top 5 teams in the Barclays, Sky Bet and SPL leagues at this stage.
		
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Well most leagues have hardly played any games yet so normally will wait to around 10 games as that gives a truer picture of the top 5

Last Monday the top 4 in the prem were Chelsea, City , liverpool and Arsenal - thats changed because two of those teams havent played yet - but at the end of October will give a truer picture 

The Championship has most of the front runners up at the top and the SPL will take shape as the season goes on


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## Foxholer (Aug 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What is so shocking about it ?

Surely as a manager he hasnt done a bad job ? Would you be shocked because Lennon is also linked
		
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Don't think either of them would be successful at Palace! 

Hugely different mindset required from a 'leading/successful' Manager to one that is going to have to scrap, cajole and inspire all season! The likes of Dave Bassett made a career of doing exactly that - and Tony Pulis seems pretty good in the role too (Big Sam?). Fulham aren't having any success, even with a 'top' Manager! It's actually why I rate 'arry - he's really rather good in both roles - just bad with money! 

Not sure that Alex McLeish's move down south was an overall success! 

If McCoist is considering leaving Rangers, then either the situation is really bad, the underground undermining rumour machine is really good - or a healthy dose of both - imo!


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## Dodger (Aug 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So why would they become of the biggest in the prem then ? 

What are your reasons ? Genuine question 

Im just struggling to see why the top players would go there - the players that are essential to get clubs to the top level in the prem 

And which two clubs would be above Celtic after 2 or 3 seasons ?

http://talksport.com/magazine/big-p...-liverpool-arsenal-barca-real-or-chelsea?p=12

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The club is huge even at the moment in the tin pot league. Given a huge shot of cash would enable them to become even bigger and pay the wages top players are looking for and the club would build and build.I'd be confident of selling 55k plus season books if they were ever to get into that league and the off field injection of coin would be massive.

We,not so long ago, sold 54k season books to watch games v Hamilton,Raith Rovers etc....

Top players go to top clubs for 2 things......CL football and/or money both of which would be available within a short period of time at Glasgow Celtic.

Am I not even sure there would be anyone above us within 5 years but I would expect Man Utd, Chelsea and City to compete.

I'll say it again, folk outwith Scotland have absolutely no idea what a massive massive club Celtic are and for what it's worth Sevco ran well have humongous potential too. Fan base wise they both dwarf the likes of City,Liverpool,Chelsea, Arsenal etc.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 24, 2014)

Dodger said:



			The club is huge even at the moment in the tin pot league. Given a huge shot of cash would enable them to become even bigger and pay the wages top players are looking for and the club would build and build.I'd be confident of selling 55k plus season books if they were ever to get into that league and the off field injection of coin would be massive.

We,not so long ago, sold 54k season books to watch games v Hamilton,Raith Rovers etc....

Top players go to top clubs for 2 things......CL football and/or money both of which would be available within a short period of time at Glasgow Celtic.

Am I not even sure there would be anyone above us within 5 years but I would expect Man Utd, Chelsea and City to compete.

I'll say it again, folk outwith Scotland have absolutely no idea what a massive massive club Celtic are and for what it's worth Sevco ran well have humongous potential too. Fan base wise they both dwarf the likes of City,Liverpool,Chelsea, Arsenal etc.
		
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Did you read that link i posted ? 

You really think fan wise you dwarf those teams - your clubs are well below the top clubs in the prem. 

Many teams in the league have injections of cash yet still dont attract the top players and dont get into the CL - Newcastle is a perfect example for you. 

What exactly are you using to judge the size of Celtic ? That link i posted has the top 13 clubs in terms of fanbase - Celtic arent in it.

I have lived and worked in Scotland - have worked alongside many Celtic fans - been in Cyprus when they have been out there - i know they are a big club - but nowhere near the size of the top clubs in the prem. Think the last number in 2012 ws 9 mil world wide 

In all honesty Celtic would prob be a club alongside the likes of Newcastle - you wouldnt attract the top players unless you get Man City money to pay mercenary wages - even then players would still pick a great deal number of clubs before Celtic even if in the prem.

I can understand you have a rosey picture of your club - just like i have of mine - but to suggest they would be bigger than everyone bar Man Utd in terms of anything is laughable - truely laughable.


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## Dodger (Aug 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Did you read that link i posted ? 

You really think fan wise you dwarf those teams - your clubs are well below the top clubs in the prem. 

Many teams in the league have injections of cash yet still dont attract the top players and dont get into the CL - Newcastle is a perfect example for you. 

What exactly are you using to judge the size of Celtic ? That link i posted has the top 13 clubs in terms of fanbase - Celtic arent in it.

I have lived and worked in Scotland - have worked alongside many Celtic fans - been in Cyprus when they have been out there - i know they are a big club - but nowhere near the size of the top clubs in the prem. 

In all honesty Celtic would prob be a club alongside the likes of Newcastle - you wouldnt attract the top players unless you get Man City money to pay mercenary wages - even then players would still pick a great deal number of clubs before Celtic even if in the prem.

I can understand you have a rosey picture of your club - just like i have of mine - but to suggest they would be bigger than everyone bar Man Utd in terms of anything is laughable - truely laughable.
		
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You put on a link from Talksport and expect me to a) Read it and b) take it with any credence?

I am unsurprised that an englishman doubts that Celtic are every bit as big as the top clubs,it's nothing new and I am happy for you to continue to live in your Liverpool/English bubble.

In truth neither of us can prove that we could or could not be big,I believe we would you don't and until such time as the opportunity comes along we'll never truly know but one thing is for sure we would dwarf at least half that league without trying.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 24, 2014)

Dodger said:



			You put on a link from Talksport and expect me to a) Read it and b) take it with any credence?

I am unsurprised that an englishman doubts that Celtic are every bit as big as the top clubs,it's nothing new and I am happy for you to continue to live in your Liverpool/English bubble.

In truth neither of us can prove that we could or could not be big,I believe we would you don't and until such time as the opportunity comes along we'll never truly know but one thing is for sure we would dwarf at least half that league without trying.
		
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Well the link was a survey of worldwide fan bases with the figures associated with them - clubs talking in the world wide figures of over 150 mil - Celtic were not in the list and their Wiki has them a great deal lower. 

Prob being a big fish in a very small pond has given the impression of bigger size but in the prem Celtic filter in with the rest - the parallels with Newcastle are perfect. they have a big stadium - they have big cash injections - they have a fairly big fanbase but they dont get CL - they dont attract the big players - there is 5 of the biggest clubs in the world in the league who pick of those players first.


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## Dodger (Aug 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well the link was a survey of worldwide fan bases with the figures associated with them - clubs talking in the world wide figures of over 150 mil - Celtic were not in the list and their Wiki has them a great deal lower. 

Prob being a big fish in a very small pond has given the impression of bigger size but in the prem Celtic filter in with the rest - the parallels with Newcastle are perfect. they have a big stadium - they have big cash injections - they have a fairly big fanbase but they dont get CL - they dont attract the big players - there is 5 of the biggest clubs in the world in the league who pick of those players first.
		
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Comparing those two clubs is like comparing Me to Homer golf wise.

Not even close and to even bracket them together is laughable.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 24, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Comparing those two clubs is like comparing Me to Homer golf wise.

Not even close and to even bracket them together is laughable.
		
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Not really - In fact i believe Forbes have them higher in terms of value

Fanbase reports have them higher 

Their stadium is a bit smaller

You are just ahead of them in the UEFA co efficents ( because Celtic have had a few games in Europe )

They fall behind in terms of trophies but then they would do 

So overall i reckon the Newcastle level is exactly where Celtic would be if in the Prem


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## Dodger (Aug 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not really - In fact i believe Forbes have them higher in terms of value

Fanbase reports have them higher 

Their stadium is a bit smaller

You are just ahead of them in the UEFA co efficents ( because Celtic have had a few games in Europe )

They fall behind in terms of trophies but then they would do 

So overall i reckon the Newcastle level is exactly where Celtic would be if in the Prem
		
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Value.......work that one out, it is not difficult given where those teams play.

Fans wise, laughable to say that Celtic fall behind Newcastle, truly laughable and again if clubs competed in the same arena then the fan base size would multiply further in our favour.

Our stadium is 8k larger and should we ever end up in the same arena as Newcastle, Chelsea etc that capacity would be expanded by  further 10k to accommodate fans.

So as I said comparing those two clubs is laughable in the real world.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 24, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Value.......work that one out, it is not difficult given where those teams play.

Fans wise, laughable to say that Celtic fall behind Newcastle, truly laughable and again if clubs competed in the same arena then the fan base size would multiply further in our favour.

Our stadium is 8k larger and should we ever end up in the same arena as Newcastle, Chelsea etc that capacity would be expanded by  further 10k to accommodate fans.

So as I said comparing those two clubs is laughable in the real world.
		
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Again i have shown you the report that shows world wide fanbase figures - but because they dont show Celtic that high in them you dismiss them ?

Size of stadium doesnt make you successful in the prem - Newcastle have more fans week in week out than most of the teams bar Arsenal and Man Utd - dont win a thing and nowhere near the top clubs. 

Celtic are no bigger a club then Newcastle - they have a bigger stadium - well West Ham will soon be playing in the Olympic Stadium which will be bigger than most of the clubs - that wont suddenly make them bigger club. 

Celtic are big in Scotland - that there is no doubt - but there is nothing to suggest they would be anything other than a mid table team in the Prem - you have come up with nothing to suggest why they would. You have come up with laughable statements of them being bigger than clubs like Liverpool , Chelsea , Man City , Arsenal and even said within 5 years no one would be above you - laughable.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well the link was a survey of worldwide fan bases with the figures associated with them - clubs talking in the world wide figures of over 150 mil - Celtic were not in the list and their Wiki has them a great deal lower. 

Prob being a big fish in a very small pond has given the impression of bigger size but in the prem Celtic filter in with the rest - the parallels with Newcastle are perfect. they have a big stadium - they have big cash injections - they have a fairly big fanbase but they dont get CL - they dont attract the big players - there is 5 of the biggest clubs in the world in the league who pick of those players first.
		
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Did they give a definition of a fan or just take a punt at the numbers?

Having lived half my life on both sides of the border I would take sides with Dodger on this one, ManU, Arsenal and now ManC are IMO the only British clubs bigger than Celtic.

It was also interesting seeing the reaction of English spectators to Ibrox Park watching the rugby during the Olympics.
One said to me outside the ground that 'I bet they have never seen crowds this big before'. That prompted a good laugh.
Most seemed to be expecting a smallish ground, some were quite awestruck.


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## Dodger (Aug 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again i have shown you the report that shows world wide fanbase figures - but because they dont show Celtic that high in them you dismiss them ?

Size of stadium doesnt make you successful in the prem - Newcastle have more fans week in week out than most of the teams bar Arsenal and Man Utd - dont win a thing and nowhere near the top clubs. 

Celtic are no bigger a club then Newcastle - they have a bigger stadium - well West Ham will soon be playing in the Olympic Stadium which will be bigger than most of the clubs - that wont suddenly make them bigger club. 

Celtic are big in Scotland - that there is no doubt - but there is nothing to suggest they would be anything other than a mid table team in the Prem - you have come up with nothing to suggest why they would. You have come up with laughable statements of them being bigger than clubs like Liverpool , Chelsea , Man City , Arsenal and even said within 5 years no one would be above you - laughable.
		
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Who said anything about the size of a stadium being the litmus test?

Fan base,fan base Phil not attendances or stadia capacity,fan base.

Celtic are a bigger club than Newcastle and many more in Europe but you carry on convincing yourself you are correct....again.

I have never seen you being wrong on anything,nothing, absolutely nada.

Oh, expect on your pal Luis being here.

You really do bore the tits off me so consider yourself on ignore.:thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 24, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Did they give a definition of a fan or just take a punt at the numbers?

Having lived half my life on both sides of the border I would take sides with Dodger on this one, ManU, Arsenal and now ManC are IMO the only British clubs bigger than Celtic.

It was also interesting seeing the reaction of English spectators to Ibrox Park watching the rugby during the Olympics.
One said to me outside the ground that 'I bet they have never seen crowds this big before'. That prompted a good laugh.
Most seemed to be expecting a smallish ground, some were quite awestruck.
		
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Off course you will side with Dodger - you are Scottish as well.

And im sorry i maybe a Liverpool fan but what exactly makes Celtic bigger than Liverpool as a club ?


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## Papas1982 (Aug 24, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Who said anything about the size of a stadium being the litmus test?

Fan base,fan base Phil not attendances or stadia capacity,fan base.

Celtic are a bigger club than Newcastle and many more in Europe but you carry on convincing yourself you are correct....again.

I have never seen you being wrong on anything,nothing, absolutely nada.

Oh, expect on your pal Luis being here.

You really do bore the tits off me so consider yourself on ignore.:thup:
		
Click to expand...

fwiw, i believe if Celtic survived the first couple of seasons in the prem, then and only then they make up part of a top 5/6. But money alone guarantees nothing. UTD won as many titles as anyone once city n Chelsea had injections. So Celtic would have to come in with ridiculous money and then take players from City, Chelsea, man UTD, Liverpool and arsenal. How would they do this, would being in the Prem make them worth Â£200m more a season to spend?

They may well compete, but do I acne or close to it in 5 years? Not a chance. I'm not doubting you have a massive following. But I'd be very surprised if it was anywhere Liverpool, arsenal or UTD as they've been the main names in English football since premiership and it's commercial growth that creates fan base these days. Chelsea and city whilst maybe having smaller canvases are still growing massively. So whilst I don't think it will ever happening. I wouldn't expect Celtic to win or dominate anymore than the other teams mentioned.


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## Fish (Aug 24, 2014)

Are you basing Celtic being bigger due to being a majority catholic following and that if they played in the prem they would somehow become larger and more powerful and more successful, if so I believe your wrong, why? because most supporters of Celtic down here actually support someone else already, so, would they dump those teams and then follow Celtic just because they are more accessible? I don't think so!

I would say the same for Rangers also if the same scenario was to happen, but as you state, it won't anyway but I don't follow your insistence on them (Celtic) potentially being a bigger force than other clubs mentioned, if that was so, they would already have a bigger worldwide fan base based on my question and commercial figures suggest totally the opposite!

The Asian commercial market for football clubs is huge, this is why Chelsea got Kenyon (the red) on board and our commercial presence now in Asia is huge, I would think that Celtic and indeed Rangers have more of an insulated following more associated to the UK as they are both, unfortunately, are divided by religion and not just football.    

I understand your view point and opinion but I don't agree with it and think they would be top of the 3rd tier within the prem, at best and wouldn't get the kind of extra support and following you think they would if they came south.

PS. love the Homer analogy, poor bloke gets dragged into everything :rofl:


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## williamalex1 (Aug 24, 2014)

Well the good news , Scotland are going up to 27 in world rankings 1 behind England at 28.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 24, 2014)

williamalex1 said:



			Well the good news , Scotland are going up to 27 in world rankings 1 behind England at 28.
		
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? Current ones released on 14 Aug has Scotland at 28 and England at 20 ?

http://www.fifa.com/worldranking/rankingtable/


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## GreiginFife (Aug 24, 2014)

williamalex1 said:



			Well the good news , Scotland are going up to 27 in world rankings 1 behind England at 28.
		
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This post makess no sense at all. 27 behind 28? Scotland were already at 27 based on the Aug 14 (last Fifa published) rankings and hadnt moved since the July ranking. England are at 20. 
Is there a hidden joke in the post?


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 24, 2014)

GreiginFife said:



			This post makess no sense at all. 27 behind 28? Scotland were already at 27 based on the July 14 (last Fifa published) rankings. England at 20. 
Is there a hidden joke in the post?
		
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It is reported that when the September rankings come out England will drop to 26, Scotland are 27 and Wales 28. Take it with a pinch of salt, I think.


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## GreiginFife (Aug 24, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			It is reported that when the September rankings come out England will drop to 26, Scotland are 27 and Wales 28. Take it with a pinch of salt, I think.
		
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Its the 'going up' bit along with 27 being 'one behind' 27 in an ascending ranking system that has me flummoxed.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 24, 2014)

williamalex1 said:



			Well the good news , Scotland are going up to 27 in world rankings 1 behind England at 28.
		
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On current form that sounds about right.
Assuming England are down 6 at 26 and we are up 1 at 27.

All that money and 26th in the World........what a waste.


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## williamalex1 (Aug 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			? Current ones released on 14 Aug has Scotland at 28 and England at 20 ?

http://www.fifa.com/worldranking/rankingtable/

Click to expand...

 Phil, I'm quoting from the Sunday Mail which says" when the latest FIFA rankings are unveiled"  that will be both our positions.

 Maybe their wrong


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 24, 2014)

williamalex1 said:



			Phil, I'm quoting from the Sunday Mail which says" when the latest FIFA rankings are unveiled"  that will be both our positions.

 Maybe their wrong 

Click to expand...

I think the latest rankings arent unveild until Sep the 14th - but im not sure how they are worked out as there has been no competitive games since the last lot have been released - but there aresome games before then so not sure how it can be known until those results are known ?


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 24, 2014)

For sanity's sake don't tell Phil The Sunday Mail is a Scottish paper.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 24, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			For sanity's sake don't tell *Phil The Sunday Mail is a Scottish paper*.
		
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I know its a Scottish Paper - i have lived in Scotland BTW


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## ger147 (Aug 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think the latest rankings arent unveild until Sep the 14th - but im not sure how they are worked out as there has been no competitive games since the last lot have been released - but there aresome games before then so not sure how it can be known until those results are known ?
		
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Here's the story...

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/scotland-set-just-one-place-4098430


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## williamalex1 (Aug 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I know its a Scottish Paper - i have lived in Scotland BTW
		
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 They also say Wales has jumped 14 places to 28, Ireland at 54.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 24, 2014)

ger147 said:



			Here's the story...

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/scotland-set-just-one-place-4098430

Click to expand...

Yeah i have read - just trying to figure out how the figures are known a month ahead of them being announced and before results of a EC qualifier is known ?


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## ger147 (Aug 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yeah i have read - just trying to figure out how the figures are known a month ahead of them being announced and before results of a EC qualifier is known ?
		
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They are worked out before they are published so they'll already know which points are going on, dropping off etc. - the same as Golf and Tennis world rankings etc.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 24, 2014)

ger147 said:



			They are worked out before they are published so they'll already know which points are going on, dropping off etc. - the same as Golf and Tennis world rankings etc.
		
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Yeah just going through the procedure and looking at the last 12 months - England lose points gained last September ( a win and a draw ) and Scotland only lose one victory - but its all subject to what happens in the next couple of games - if Scotland beat Germany they could leap up into the top 20 but lose and they dont lose any points. England have two games - win both and they only gain 20 points. 

England being low is a very true reflection of their current standing.


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## williamalex1 (Aug 24, 2014)

GreiginFife said:



			Its the 'going up' bit along with 27 being 'one behind' 27 in an ascending ranking system that has me flummoxed.
		
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Greg it's an age thing, i meant England 26  Scotland 1 behind at 27.YOU SHOULD SEE ME MARKING A SCORE CARD.:rofl:


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 24, 2014)

Apparently Scotland have never been above England in the FIFA rankings since they started. I wonder if that will change when we beat you in November?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 24, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Apparently Scotland have never been above England in the FIFA rankings since they started. I wonder if that will change when we beat you in November?
		
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Would be a very good chance of being above England if that was too happen. Prob would also be the final nail in the coffin for Hodgson


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## williamalex1 (Aug 24, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Apparently Scotland have never been above England in the FIFA rankings since they started. I wonder if that will change when we beat you in November?
		
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oo: , Incoming watch out.


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## Fish (Aug 24, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Apparently Scotland have never been above England in the FIFA rankings since they started. I wonder if that will change when we beat you in November?
		
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Not on yer nelly


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 24, 2014)

Do we play Germany first?
In which case England may be playing the unofficial World Champions.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 24, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Do we play Germany first?
In which case England may be playing the unofficial World Champions.
		
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You play Germany in September away


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 24, 2014)

A chance of glory for England then


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 24, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			A chance of glory for England then
		
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Glory ? 

Believe there are is a simple thing first - you have to beat Germany which lets be honest would be a massive shock - massive.


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## williamalex1 (Aug 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Glory ? 

Believe there are is a simple thing first - you have to beat Germany which lets be honest would be a massive shock - massive.
		
Click to expand...

Just like 1967


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 24, 2014)

williamalex1 said:



			Just like 1967 

Click to expand...

Then it will be a shock if England beat the unofficial world champions......hence the chance at glory for England.

Mind you 50 years later they will still be bleating on about the day they beat the unofficial world champions.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 24, 2014)

I can't see you beating Germany. No way no how. That said, I do think there's a chance you could beat England. I like the way Scotland are progressing and if England don't turn up mentally, a regular occurrence these days, it could be a good night to be Scottish


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## Papas1982 (Aug 24, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Then it will be a shock if England beat the unofficial world champions......hence the chance at glory for England.

Mind you 50 years later they will still be bleating on about the day they beat the unofficial world champions.

Click to expand...

beacause the Lisbon Lions are never brought up when talking about winning in Europe..........


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 24, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			beacause the Lisbon Lions are never brought up when talking about winning in Europe..........
		
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Only in a quiz when they ask, who was the first British team to win the European Cup


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## Papas1982 (Aug 24, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Only in a quiz when they ask, who was the first British team to win the European Cup
		
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Funny I've heard it many a time and never at a quiz.............


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 25, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I can't see you beating Germany. No way no how. That said, I do think there's a chance you could beat England. I like the way Scotland are progressing and if England don't turn up mentally, a regular occurrence these days, it could be a good night to be Scottish
		
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Wouldn't worry about England losing to Scotland in a friendly as its a meaningless game. Beating Gibraltar away much more important for Scotland than this match against England.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 25, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Then it will be a shock if England beat the unofficial world champions......hence the chance at glory for England.

Mind you 50 years later they will still be bleating on about the day they beat the unofficial world champions.

Click to expand...

There is no "unofficial world champions"


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 25, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There is no "unofficial world champions"
		
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You can have as many and as varied " unofficial" anythings as anyone wants as they are unofficial


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 30, 2014)

Shockerooni


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28995560

Barca to County, good career move?


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## williamalex1 (Aug 30, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Shockerooni


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28995560

Barca to County, good career move?
		
Click to expand...

At first glance i thought that was a reply to the Wayne Rooney thread, also not a bad idea.


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## Foxholer (Oct 12, 2014)

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/sh...ppointed-Bolton-Manager&p=1157999#post1157999


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## CMAC (Mar 7, 2015)

Watched a Scottish game last night on what seemed a poor pitch and ground, and mediocre skill- reminded me of the pub team on a Sunday  and is it my imagination but the park seems smaller in Scotland (I know its not it just looks it).

Then I watched the AST v WBA game tonight. Pitch looked great, ground looked good and apart from the over exuberant fans invading like they used to in the 80's it was another exciting game with drama, good skill and very passionate fans. End to end stuff.
Very enjoyable:whoo:


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## jpxpro (Mar 7, 2015)

you get some right boring games in the epl, the championship isn't a very high standard either

socttish football is skint Celtic aside the average income from sponsors or tv etc is on par with english lower leagues, the egg chasers actually get more tv money that scottish football even though the football has more viewers

sadly this won't change anytime soon, Celtic at best are a decent Europa league team the rest of scotland would struggle against MK Dons


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## williamalex1 (Mar 7, 2015)

Things are about to change with King in charge at Rangers . One Rangers  fan shouted there's only Juan king at Ibrox. :rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 8, 2015)

CMAC said:



			Watched a Scottish game last night on what seemed a poor pitch and ground, and mediocre skill- reminded me of the pub team on a Sunday  and is it my imagination but the park seems smaller in Scotland (I know its not it just looks it).

Then I watched the AST v WBA game tonight. Pitch looked great, ground looked good and apart from the over exuberant fans invading like they used to in the 80's it was another exciting game with drama, good skill and very passionate fans. End to end stuff.
Very enjoyable:whoo:
		
Click to expand...

Good choice.....if you had watched the Bradford game I think the stats said the there were no shots on target from both of the teams over the 90 mins.
Hilarious that the dafty pundit seemed to blame that on the quality of the pitch.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 8, 2015)

It was quoted this week that the BBC's payment for coverage of the Scottish Leagues is less than what they are paying in an annual salary to a certain large eared fitba presenter.
Many folk will have a good laugh at this and say 'aye that is about right'.

If this is correct then once again it shows where the BBC priorities lie.


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## CMAC (Mar 8, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			It was quoted this week that the BBC's payment for coverage of the Scottish Leagues is less than what they are paying in an annual salary to a certain large eared fitba presenter.
Many folk will have a good laugh at this and say 'aye that is about right'.

If this is correct then *once again it shows where the BBC priorities lie*.
		
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and what's the issue if it is the case?

got a link to the article naming 'the boy Line-aker'?


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## bluewolf (Mar 8, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			It was quoted this week that the BBC's payment for coverage of the Scottish Leagues is less than what they are paying in an annual salary to a certain large eared fitba presenter.
Many folk will have a good laugh at this and say 'aye that is about right'.

If this is correct then once again it shows where the BBC priorities lie.
		
Click to expand...

Ratings?


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## c1973 (Mar 8, 2015)

Perhaps they should pay way over the odds (and going market rate) for an inferior product just to keep the nationalist chip on the shoulder brigade happy?


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 8, 2015)

CMAC said:



			and what's the issue if it is the case?

got a link to the article naming 'the boy Line-aker'?

Click to expand...

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/01/30/match-fixing/


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## CMAC (Mar 8, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/01/30/match-fixing/

Click to expand...

christ! somebodys blog!


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 8, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/01/30/match-fixing/

Click to expand...

It's wasnt written by Gary's ex-missus, before the divorce settlement was it?


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## CheltenhamHacker (Mar 9, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			It was quoted this week that the BBC's payment for coverage of the Scottish Leagues is less than what they are paying in an annual salary to a certain large eared fitba presenter.
Many folk will have a good laugh at this and say 'aye that is about right'.

If this is correct then once again it shows where the BBC priorities lie.
		
Click to expand...

Are you saying that Scottish football needs charity handouts? If the BBC pay the going rate, that's the fault of Scottish football for being so poor!


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 9, 2015)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Are you saying that Scottish football needs charity handouts? If the BBC pay the going rate, that's the fault of Scottish football for being so poor!
		
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The BBC is not a charity.
Have you ever considered that Scottish football may be 'poor' due to the BBC's policy of paying astonishing amounts of money to cover English and Welsh football


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 9, 2015)

CMAC said:



			christ! somebodys blog!
		
Click to expand...

 :lol: Do keep up.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 9, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The BBC is not a charity.
Have you ever considered that Scottish football may be 'poor' due to the BBC's policy of paying astonishing amounts of money to cover English and Welsh football
		
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Companies will pay for a good product 

Blaming the BBC for the state of scottish football gives you the perfect excuse to cover your eyes to the real problem


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## Wabinez (Mar 9, 2015)

Scottish football is a poor thing, so there is no wonder it isn't televised etc as much as the EPL.   The way to look at it would be, with the exception of maybe Celtic, would any of the Scottish Premiership do well in the EPL.  I think we all know the answer would be a no.  Even Celtic, in my opinion, would be a struggling mid-table side.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 9, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The BBC is not a charity.
Have you ever considered that Scottish football may be 'poor' due to the BBC's policy of paying astonishing amounts of money to cover English and Welsh football
		
Click to expand...

Maybe they should show the games on BBC2 after midnight?

It would be interesting too see how may Scottish viewers would watch say Arsenal v Man U, instead of Inverness Cally v St. Johnstone, if on at the same time.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 9, 2015)

Wabinez said:



			Scottish football is a poor thing, so there is no wonder it isn't televised etc as much as the EPL.   The way to look at it would be, with the exception of maybe Celtic, would any of the Scottish Premiership do well in the EPL.  I think we all know the answer would be a no.  Even Celtic, in my opinion, would be a struggling mid-table side.
		
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Maybe to start with, but after 5-10 years of the EPL money, I think they would be challenging in the top 5.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 9, 2015)

Liverbirdie said:



			Maybe they should show the games on BBC2 after midnight?

It would be interesting too see how may Scottish viewers would watch say Arsenal v Man U, instead of Inverness Cally v St. Johnstone, if on at the same time.
		
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Not really a fair comparison using two of the worst-supported Scottish teams against two of the biggest English ones...

Pretty sure more would watch Celtic v Aberdeen than Hull v West Brom, for example


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 9, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Not really a fair comparison using two of the worst-supported Scottish teams against two of the biggest English ones...

Pretty sure more would watch Celtic v Aberdeen than Hull v West Brom, for example
		
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Fair point.

Celtic v Aberdeen vs Chelsea v city?


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 9, 2015)

Liverbirdie said:



			Fair point.

Celtic v Aberdeen vs Chelsea v city?
		
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After midnight? I'd wouldn't be staying up for either..... But I'd have watched Chelsea v City live on sky!


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## CMAC (Mar 9, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			:lol: Do keep up.
		
Click to expand...

here you go again!

You post at 3.49pm, I reply 2 hrs later and you post this above (the next day at 9.09)

I do wonder what world you live in! Plus you dodged (avoided) the question in my post, but then again you are well known for avoidance then posting drivel so I don't know why I'm surprised.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 9, 2015)

CMAC said:



			here you go again!

You post at 3.49pm, I reply 2 hrs later and you post this above (the next day at 9.09)

I do wonder what world you live in! Plus you dodged (avoided) the question in my post, but then again you are well known for avoidance then posting drivel so I don't know why I'm surprised.
		
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:lol: Calm down...it's only a forum


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## Imurg (Mar 9, 2015)

Maybe you should talk to Sky - they seem to have a bit of cash to splash.....


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 9, 2015)

Imurg said:



			Maybe you should talk to Sky - they seem to have a bit of cash to splash.....
		
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I think there's a more significant issue there. Sky pay significantly more for Rugby league coverage, for example, than SPFL despite less interest / lower ratings for the rugby.

The numpties running Scottish Football clearly undervalued the tv rights. One of their many failings.


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## CMAC (Mar 13, 2015)

another 'possible' reason for the N S divide http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31873611


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 14, 2015)

England 17th in the World Rankings, Scotland 39th..........not such a divide if you consider the massive difference in funding.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 14, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			England 17th in the World Rankings, Scotland 39th..........not such a divide if you consider the massive difference in funding.
		
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Irrelevant - that's national teams.

Understand this thread was about the differencd between the two leagues and the vast gulf in quality.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 14, 2015)

Apologies, forgot that.


Barclays League.......QPR


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## CMAC (Mar 16, 2015)

anyone watch the Scottish League cup final yesterday? wasn't it a cracker of a match?

Don't teams agree beforehand about who's taking a penalty or was it just me that was embarrassed by the playground antics of who was taking the penalty. Worked out well for the selfish guy who just hung onto the ball


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## MegaSteve (Mar 16, 2015)

CMAC said:



			anyone watch the Scottish League cup final yesterday? wasn't it a cracker of a match?
		
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Nope... But I was a little amused that they got a London 'boy' to hand out the trophy...


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 17, 2015)

I really cannot understand why Reading v Bradford was shown on peak time BBC1 Scotland last night.
Love to see what the viewing figures were.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 17, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I really cannot understand why Reading v Bradford was shown on peak time BBC1 Scotland last night.
Love to see what the viewing figures were.
		
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Not sure why shown in Scotland - probably bit tricky finding and fitting something into prime time in Scotland that England wouldn't want to see also - was on as Bradford made one heck of a fuss when their previous games weren't shown live.


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## Adi2Dassler (Mar 17, 2015)

Don't really get this comparison between the two leagues..one is clearly superior to the other, and the factors for that are well documented.

A fairer comparison would be EPL vs Bundesligue.One played at a faster pace where and one probably superior technique.All fantastic stadia with high quality players on the whole, playing the game in a different way.Taking the whole package as a supporter, I prefer the German model to the English one, but only slightly.

BUT as someone who supports a team in Scotland, I'm much happier in Cowdenbeath watching Hibs on a crappy pitch with a car track round the side than watching Reading vs Bradford.I'm sure a guy watching Macclesfield or Leyton Orient or Plymouth would say exactly the same thing.


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## MegaSteve (Mar 17, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			I'm much happier in Cowdenbeath watching Hibs on a crappy pitch with a car track round the side...
		
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Good grief didn't know the 'stock car' track was still there... Made the trip up a couple of times in the early '70s to help a mate out on the spanners... Were 'fiery' nights!


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## CMAC (Mar 17, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



*Don't really get this comparison between the two leagues*..one is clearly superior to the other, and the factors for that are well documented.

A fairer comparison would be EPL vs Bundesligue.One played at a faster pace where and one probably superior technique.All fantastic stadia with high quality players on the whole, playing the game in a different way.Taking the whole package as a supporter, I prefer the German model to the English one, but only slightly.

BUT as someone who supports a team in Scotland, I'm much happier in Cowdenbeath watching Hibs on a crappy pitch with a car track round the side than watching Reading vs Bradford.I'm sure a guy watching Macclesfield or Leyton Orient or Plymouth would say exactly the same thing.
		
Click to expand...

same country and just pointing out the gulf in skill level and entertainment, surprised it wasnt clear after 26,815 views and 864 replies


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## Val (Mar 17, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Don't really get this comparison between the two leagues..one is clearly superior to the other.
		
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You are absolutely right here but on the flip side the inferior one is a damn sight richer than the superior one


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## Adi2Dassler (Mar 17, 2015)

CMAC said:



			same country and just pointing out the gulf in skill level and entertainment, surprised it wasnt clear after 26,815 views and 864 replies

Click to expand...

Not the same country, not according to FIFA or UEFA anyway.And I've probably only viewed it a couple of times.


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## Adi2Dassler (Mar 17, 2015)

MegaSteve said:



			Good grief didn't know the 'stock car' track was still there... Made the trip up a couple of times in the early '70s to help a mate out on the spanners... Were 'fiery' nights!
		
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Indeed.As we were leaving the ground they were prepping it for the racing.It was suggested we take advantage of the local curry house offer...all you can eat buffet and 5 drinks vouchers for Â£20, then back in for the racing!


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 17, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Indeed.As we were leaving the ground they were prepping it for the racing.It was suggested we take advantage of the local curry house offer...all you can eat buffet and 5 drinks vouchers for Â£20, then back in for the racing!
		
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They say you can tell when it is nearly full time by the volume of stock car engines revving up!


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## GreiginFife (Mar 17, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Indeed.As we were leaving the ground they were prepping it for the racing.It was suggested we take advantage of the local curry house offer...all you can eat buffet and 5 drinks vouchers for Â£20, then back in for the racing!
		
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Shimla Palace, great curry. Good offer too.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 18, 2015)

Ach but Scottish football gives you laughs and curios...

I mean for goodness sake - Alloa vs The Rangers.  Including last night five times they have played each other this season - The Rangers have won ONE of them (and they were lucky 2-1 victors).  ALLOA! Madness.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 18, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Ach but Scottish football gives you laughs and curios...

I mean for goodness sake - Alloa vs The Rangers.  Including last night five times they have played each other this season - The Rangers have won ONE of them (and they were lucky 2-1 victors).  ALLOA! Madness.
		
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OK Mods, this thread has gone too far.

Leave me to my misery SILH, please!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 18, 2015)

onsideration of your misery)



FairwayDodger said:



			OK Mods, this thread has gone too far.

Leave me to my misery SILH, please! 

Click to expand...

Sorry FD - but it is nuts.  Last three games Rangers have played (you'll note I dropped the The there in consideration for your misery - I have family members with the same affliction as yourself and they are not happy bunnies) but their last three games - draws against Livi, Alloa and Cowdenbeath (bottom, 2nd bottom and also 2nd bottom of 2nd tier of Scottish Football).  Talk of mighty falling...

But you've got a ginger in command now so easy to spot and follow follow (sorry...).


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 18, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			onsideration of your misery)

Sorry FD - but it is nuts.  Last three games Rangers have played (you'll note I dropped the The there in consideration for your misery - I have family members with the same affliction as yourself and they are not happy bunnies) but their last three games - draws against Livi, Alloa and Cowdenbeath (bottom, 2nd bottom and also 2nd bottom of 2nd tier of Scottish Football).  Talk of mighty falling...

But you've got a ginger in command now so easy to spot and follow follow (sorry...).
		
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They are terrible, no denying it. Very unlikely they'll get promoted. It's painful.

Incidentally, I've called them "The" Rangers for over thirty years but never expected fans of other teams would accord them such respect.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 18, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			They are terrible, no denying it. Very unlikely they'll get promoted. It's painful.

Incidentally, I've called them "The" Rangers for over thirty years but never expected fans of other teams would accord them such respect. 

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Aye Ready as fans of other Scottish teams are to accord such respect  

BTW - You don't really want to read comments on the game last night that have been posted on The Bears Den forum - though they are exactly as you'd expect.  A wee bit of Gers fan melt down going on.


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## Slab (Mar 18, 2015)

Oh its much worse than that...

Last 10 games for them have been: 
LWWLWDDDDD

while the league leaders have gone: 
DWLWWWWWWW



I suspect that Rangers thread will come back to life if the SFA ever get around (forced) into holding the duel ownership case against them


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 18, 2015)

Slab said:



			I suspect that Rangers thread will come back to life if the SFA ever get around (forced) into holding the duel ownership case against them
		
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lol, you won't find many rangers fans that weren't desperate for the SFA to do something, ANYTHING about that at the time. If they do act now it will be too little, too late.


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## Adi2Dassler (Mar 18, 2015)

Not looking forward to sunday now. Hibs are not usually very good and being expected to win.I anticipate a Rangers victory.


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## Slab (Mar 18, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			lol, you won't find many rangers fans that weren't desperate for the SFA to do something, ANYTHING about that at the time. *If they do act now it will be too little, too late*.
		
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I agree, pretty incredible its been moved/postponed for over 4 months and now wont be held until mid April when the teams fate will pretty much be determined 

but the play-offs should be fun


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 18, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Not looking forward to sunday now. Hibs are not usually very good and being expected to win.I anticipate a Rangers victory.
		
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You sound like my (hibby) fiancÃ©e. No harmony in our house on sunday!


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 18, 2015)

Hibs on a seven game winning streak tooo.
Umteen games undefeated

'mon THE Hibees. Alan Stubbs doing a great job with them.


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## Slab (Mar 18, 2015)

Its a bit like choosing to go to the dentist or... well another dentist really but sorry FD while I'm happy for you two to draw on Sunday but prefer Hibs to win play-offs between you (if QotS don't spoil that party!)


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## Val (Mar 18, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			You sound like my (hibby) fiancÃ©e. No harmony in our house on sunday!
		
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Look on the brightside, if you draw it's 7 without loss


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 18, 2015)

Val said:



			Look on the brightside, if you draw it's 7 without loss 

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Forget the league this weekend - I'm just fed up losing to them and having to suffer HID afterwards. To make it worse, she's starting to feel sorry for me......


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## Val (Mar 18, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Forget the league this weekend - I'm just fed up losing to them and having to suffer HID afterwards. To make it worse, she's starting to feel sorry for me......
		
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Did she laugh or cheer at last nights score?


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 18, 2015)

Val said:



			Did she laugh or cheer at last nights score?
		
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She said "I'm sorry, love"


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## Adi2Dassler (Mar 18, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Forget the league this weekend - I'm just fed up losing to them and having to suffer HID afterwards. To make it worse, she's starting to feel sorry for me......
		
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currently standing at 9-1 in league fixtures.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 18, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			currently standing at 9-1 in league fixtures.
		
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Draw would be a good result for us this time.....


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 18, 2015)

Slab said:



			Oh its much worse than that...

Last 10 games for them have been: 
LWWLWDDDDD

while the league leaders have gone: 
DWLWWWWWWW



I suspect that Rangers thread will come back to life if the SFA ever get around (forced) into holding the duel ownership case against them
		
Click to expand...

In any case - The SPFL are going to be looking to increase the Scottish Premiership to 16 teams FOR next season - relegate bottom club and hope that the Gers can scrape into 5th place in the Championship


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 18, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Forget the league this weekend - I'm just fed up losing to them and having to suffer HID afterwards. To make it worse, she's starting to feel sorry for me......
		
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...that IS the end - bad enough when supporters of other clubs start feeling sorry for (some) Rangers fans...but when HID feels she's had enough of your misery


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## Adi2Dassler (Mar 18, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			In any case - The SPFL are going to be looking to increase the Scottish Premiership to 16 teams FOR next season - relegate bottom club and hope that the Gers can scrape into 5th place in the Championship
		
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No chance, not next season.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 18, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			No chance, not next season.
		
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At least this season has shown that two 16 team leagues would be more viable than many thought.


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## Adi2Dassler (Mar 18, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			At least this season has shown that two 16 team leagues would be more viable than many thought.
		
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For sure, but it won't happen this year.


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## Val (Mar 18, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			At least this season has shown that two 16 team leagues would be more viable than many thought.
		
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Based on what?


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 18, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			At least this season has shown that two 16 team leagues would be more viable than many thought.
		
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Adi2Dassler said:



			For sure, but it won't happen this year.
		
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Agreed but too much of an outcry if it meant Hibs or (especially) Rangers going up only due to reorganisation.


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## Val (Mar 18, 2015)

I don't think there are enough teams good enough for 2 leagues, what would ultimately happen is the top 16 would be ok with lots of meaningless games at the end of the season by teams mid table, the bottom league would be poorer than the current bottom league.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 18, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Agreed but too much of an outcry if it meant Hibs or (especially) Rangers going up only due to reorganisation.
		
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Doesn't mean that Cockwomble - Doncaster - wouldn't try and get it through if it looked like Rangers weren't going to get promotion - to please TV and tempt a sponsor.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 18, 2015)

Val said:



			I don't think there are enough teams good enough for 2 leagues, what would ultimately happen is the top 16 would be ok with lots of meaningless games at the end of the season by teams mid table, the bottom league would be poorer than the current bottom league.
		
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Agree that based on current teams there would be a gap in the quality of the two leagues.
32 team restructure means 8 teams will drop out into Highland and Lowland leagues. Maybe that would strengthen things.

We now have Celtic playing Dundee United four times in as many weeks, six games in a year, that is not good as those games become 'boring and meaningless'.

It is what the fans want, the only folk championing our 10 team league seems to be Celtic and The Rangers.
I wonder why?
Not many meaningless games in the bigger top two English Leagues


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## c1973 (Mar 18, 2015)

There's 12 teams in the top league.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 18, 2015)

c1973 said:



			There's 12 teams in the top league.
		
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Aye - they increased it to 12 to try and ensure that St Johnstone stayed in it more often - the mega draw and TV attraction that the mighty Saintees are - and it's worked


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## c1973 (Mar 18, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Aye - they increased it to 12 to try and ensure that St Johnstone stayed in it more often - the mega draw and TV attraction that the mighty Saintees are - and it's worked 

Click to expand...

I thought the league was reconstructed to 12 teams to keep Aberdeen in the top tier. 

But,yeah the farming community have enjoyed a good few years of top flight football.


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## Val (Mar 18, 2015)

If we increased the top tier to 16 and everyone played each other home and away only there are teams who would vanish in a year or 2


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## c1973 (Mar 18, 2015)

Val said:



			If we increased the top tier to 16 and everyone played each other home and away only there are teams who would vanish in a year or 2
		
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Agreed. 

I've always wanted 2 leagues of 16 (playing 4 times a year, cups not included is brutal) but financially it just wouldn't work (imho). 


It might work if we adopted a proper pyramid system like England and big, well supported Junior teams like Auchinleck Talbot, Irvine Meadow, Camelon etc etc worked their way up through the divisions. But it won't happen.


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## Val (Mar 18, 2015)

People can say what they like about a 16 team league, the bottom line is this, small teams need 2 gates against the larger clubs who bring a decent support they also would drop revenue when they drop to 16 home games but still have the same wages. Clubs cannot afford that.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 18, 2015)

Val said:



			People can say what they like about a 16 team league, the bottom line is this, small teams need 2 gates against the larger clubs who bring a decent support they also would drop revenue when they drop to 16 home games but still have the same wages. Clubs cannot afford that.
		
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I understand that but how do 'large teams' become large teams.
Hearts have played to full houses most of the season [15/16k], Aberdeen's crowds have improved. Dundee have increased the fan pool since there return to the top table.
 It is teams like St Johnstone, Hamilton and ICT who find it hard to drive up their numbers despite playing some good fitba.
I have always believed if we could ship out the Ugly Sisters we would have a more competitive league with larger attendances.


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## Val (Mar 18, 2015)

60k Celtic fans won't go and watch other teams like wise at Rangers, both stadiums and Rangers in particular are empty, Celtic getting about 35-40k, there is potentially 60k fans who were regulars not going to games anymore


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 19, 2015)

No English League teams in the last 8 of the Champions League for the second time in recent history.
Disappointing.


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## Slab (Mar 19, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			No English League teams in the last 8 of the Champions League for the second time in recent history.
Disappointing.
		
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Yeah, just think if only Scotland were allowed to enter 4 teams!


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## ger147 (Mar 19, 2015)

Slab said:



			Yeah, just think if only Scotland were allowed to enter 4 teams! 

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I reckon we would be FAR more consistent that the EPL teams if we did...


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 19, 2015)

Slab said:



			Yeah, just think if only Scotland were allowed to enter 4 teams! 

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Inverness Caledonia Thistle v Borussia Monchengladbach....I can visualise the commemorative scarf.
H&S would ban it as a trip hazard.


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## Adi2Dassler (Mar 19, 2015)

I think the solution for Scotland is the League Cup.Make it exactly that: a league. 16 team league, home and away, and a league cup.Would fill the gap of lost league fixtures.Maybe 4 groups of 4 home and away?


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## CMAC (Mar 19, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			No English League teams in the last 8 of the Champions League for the second time in recent history.
Disappointing.
		
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why do I get the feeling you're actually not :mmm:


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 19, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I understand that but how do 'large teams' become large teams.
Hearts have played to full houses most of the season [15/16k], Aberdeen's crowds have improved. Dundee have increased the fan pool since there return to the top table.
 It is teams like St Johnstone, Hamilton and ICT who find it hard to drive up their numbers despite playing some good fitba.
I have always believed if we could ship out the Ugly Sisters we would have a more competitive league with larger attendances.
		
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We (the Saints of Perth) did get a 3-3 draw at home against AS Monaco back in 1999-2000

And last few years we've had a few Europa victories home and away

Still can't get the fans through the doors.


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## c1973 (Mar 19, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			I think the solution for Scotland is the League Cup.Make it exactly that: a league. 16 team league, home and away, and a league cup.Would fill the gap of lost league fixtures.Maybe 4 groups of 4 home and away?
		
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They changed the League Cup from a league format to straight knockout years ago as fans had lost interest in it. Not so sure it would be any different nowadays.


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