# One Plane or Two Plane Swing?



## kevster84 (Sep 10, 2016)

Just bought a book titled 'The Plane Truth for Golfers'. Before I read it I would like to know what swing I have:-

[video=youtube_share;tnOJbuK7HW8]http://youtu.be/tnOJbuK7HW8[/video]

Any help appreciated and advice on swing welcome.


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## Smiffy (Sep 10, 2016)

kevster84 said:



			I would like to know what swing I have:-
		
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A terrible one.....


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## kevster84 (Sep 10, 2016)

Cheers, we can't all be as good as you.

Here's a pic from another angle:-

[video=youtube_share;gpXqXWq7P38]http://youtu.be/gpXqXWq7P38[/video]


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## Maninblack4612 (Sep 10, 2016)

I would say One Plane. Hands below chin at address, arms & shoulders on around the same plane at the top, line drawn from shoulders to the ground points well outside the ball, all One Plane moves. I think a little more left forearm rotation would go with the one plane swing. The face of the club is pointing skywards at the top, the toe should be pointing more to the ground. I have studied Jim Hardy's book a lot. It helped me a great deal.


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## MadAdey (Sep 10, 2016)

1 plane, 2 plane, 3 plane 4. Do things like this really matter? You are obviously looking at improving your swing and ways to improve it by using videos replays to look at it, and that is a good thing.

As long as your swing hits the ball consistently, that's all that matters. You only have to look at the tour golfers to see that they have all kinds of different swings. There are too many people out there IMO trying to peddle their own thoughts on the golf swing and making people believe them. If your swing is good and consistent then it doesn't matter what plane it is, if it isn't go see a coach.


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## Smiffy (Sep 10, 2016)

kevster84 said:



			Cheers, we can't all be as good as you.
		
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Sadly, it's a cross I have to bear.....


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## hovis (Sep 10, 2016)

Scrap the book mate.  Its crap.  It'll create a whole world of hurt.  I wasted 2 years on it and still trying to get rid of the habits it created


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 10, 2016)

hovis said:



			Scrap the book mate.  Its crap.  It'll create a whole world of hurt.  I wasted 2 years on it and still trying to get rid of the habits it created
		
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I disagree although I've did try to utilise a one piece and have now gone more of a two plane. I found the book useful for both. In the OP's case it looks one plane although it needs to be exiting far more to the left. Kuchar is a good example of a one plane to look at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1fjK1Q6-8A


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## Dan2501 (Sep 10, 2016)

https://twitter.com/TrackmanMaestro/status/774309107704541184


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## kevster84 (Sep 10, 2016)

Thanks for all the advice. The issue of hand position at top was raised in my last lesson as I am prone to hooking the ball.


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## the_coach (Sep 11, 2016)

wouldn't worry over much about the plane one or two - as 'plane' is really 'relative' it changes through takeback, backswing, transition and downswing to impact

only one guy who's now on Tour that swings the club on 'one plane' - and is as close to planar that a human can get to, and that's bryson

nothing wrong with reading the book, or any golf book
my take just don't use it/them as a 'bible'

keep up the lessons

if you shoot vid to have something to monitor what you are doing (which folks always should in my view otherwise folks never goin to know what they really are doin in a swing motion) in relation to what the Pro wants you to work on
always put some alignment sticks down to check club face, shoulder, hip and feet, aim/alignment in relation to target line

you will see many Tour Pro's working from a top position that has the face looking skyward (closed) but that requires very good body sequencing and hip clearance at the 'time' they should clear along with continuing upper body rotation

generally speaking it's a tad easier to have a chance to 'play' golf from a closed club face at the top than it is from one that's a ways 'open' - just have to learn to make the necessary body sequence movements if the ball then still hooks or over draws as a regular pattern and a similar curvature likely then will require moving lead or trail or both hands a tad 'counterclockwise' on the handle until the curvature straightens out some

club face looking at the sky atop the swing, stop the rotation and with the grip orientation on the handle the ball is going to have a tendency to go leftfield
 unless the player coming into impact starts to stand up some and raise up the hands and handle so the shaft is more vertical at strike often times an intuitive reaction to try to keep the face angle in a squarer alignment to send the ball 'straighter' to target but that often times also results in the ball goin out rightfield and curving right some

would pay good attention to set-up alignments and checkover the hands orientation on the handle

not real good if the lead hand has the handle running too high up in the palm of the hand directly under the thumb pad instead of lower down bottom palm at junction with fingers
 or the trail hand too 'under' the handle again more in the upper palm with the thumb at the 'rear' of the handle

checkover what the Pro says


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## kevster84 (Sep 11, 2016)

I feel the book may complicate things. I've been a lot more consistent over the summer with the ball striking which has lowered my average score. When practising I usually lay a club down to target to ensure alignment. I think I initially need to get the club correct at the top to then prevent hooks/over draws etc. Then will look at the exit which has also been mentioned.


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## Foxholer (Sep 11, 2016)

Looks (Hardy style) 1-plane to me!
FWIW.
The 1 v 2 plane tag was a convenient way for Hardy to differentiate the two styles of swing, so allows coaches to tailor changes accordingly! I believe it's a book that can add to a coach's repertoire, but unfortunately many coaches seem to have restricted their teaching to his 1-plane style - trying to convert 2-planer students - as opposed to taking the student's 'natural' style and tweaking it accordingly! The result of this attempt at conversion can be expensively disastrous! 

As the_coach posted, there is only 1 (close to) true 1-plane swinger on tour. Moe Norman was, similarly, single plane. Perhaps it can/did work for them - both pretty focused/determined characters - but I doubt it's a style for many others! And their kit was/is pretty personal too!


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## the_coach (Sep 11, 2016)

for sure really wouldn't get bogged down by 'plane' - would say far more to be gained to think of a swing arc that can deliver the club through the bottom of the arc with a reliable low point along with a general feeling of swinging to the ball from slightly inside to impact to return swinging slightly inside and up

swinging in the bac yard with an old cardboard club box down as a target line and a tee (tee just 1&1/2" from the side of the box wall) for the ball will give the image of how the club head has to come from slightly inside take out the tee then continue swinging slightly inside and up to finish - so there's no contact with the bow either side of the tee contact

- swing in the vids here has movement off 'one plane' goin back to the top and returns a more vertical shaft over plane back to through impact

more bang for the buck improvement-wise for sure lies in working with the Pro on set-up alignments, posture angles at set-up then posture and sequence through the motion, and definitely making sure the hold on the handle is where it should be to allow a natural 'set' of the hands/wrists


{moe is an interesting one as he wasn't a planar swinger 

- he could return the shaft angle to impact at pretty much to his exaggerated set-up angle

- but he moved the club back initially well under plane and inside then h 3is/4 top position was a tad steeper then he swallowed out the shaft at transition with the irons to come back to impact initially from a tad under the plane to his address shaft angle (the woods & driver from hips down returned more on plane to the address angle than the irons did)

interesting 'feel' to real as to what he said about the hands to what they actually did through impact, moe used his hands actively to square up the face as can be seen directly after impact looking how much the club face angle has rotated in the follow through exit position, there's no 'slow rate' of face angle going on by a body type release there

shorter swing length and hands probably went a lot into why moe wasn't a big hitter - though he always said he was - but this just wasn't the case - very very straight but not long}


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## Foxholer (Sep 11, 2016)

the_coach said:



			...
{moe is an interesting one as he wasn't a planar swinger 

- he could return the shaft angle to impact at pretty much to his exaggerated set-up angle

- but he moved the club back initially well under plane and inside then h 3is/4 top position was a tad steeper then he swallowed out the shaft at transition with the irons to come back to impact initially from a tad under the plane to his address shaft angle (the woods & driver from hips down returned more on plane to the address angle than the irons did)

interesting 'feel' to real as to what he said about the hands to what they actually did through impact, moe used his hands actively to square up the face as can be seen directly after impact looking how much the club face angle has rotated in the follow through exit position, there's no 'slow rate' of face angle going on by a body type release there

shorter swing length and hands probably went a lot into why moe wasn't a big hitter - though he always said he was - but this just wasn't the case - very very straight but not long}
		
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Agreed! I was merely using him to show how the '1 plane' tag - therefore implement pure 1-plane - can create issues!

Apparently (according to 1 Moe story) his lack of length wasn't an issue if he had a stream that he couldn't fly - he just used the footbridge! :rofl:


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## mteam (Sep 11, 2016)

@Kevster do you feel like you pull down from the top with your left arm? in the hardy swing its a throw in with the right arm

Are you have lessons with a plane truth coach ? if not ditch the book


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## Maninblack4612 (Sep 11, 2016)

the_coach;1571080

[B said:
			
		


_only one guy who's now on Tour that swings the club on 'one plane' - and is as close to planar that a human can get to, and that's bryson_[/B]
		
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As Jim Hardy explains in his book, this is not what he means by "One Plane", the one plane he is referring to is the position at the top of the swing, the relationship between the arms & the shoulders.

Also, surely anyone can swing the club on one plane, just go on an Explanar Â© to experience how it feels. The difference between "One Plane" & "Two Plane" in Jim Hardy parlance is in the steepness of the swing and the different movements required for each swing type. The difference between the swing fundamentals is the reason why so much of the advice you read in magazines appears to conflict. The reason being that the person handing out the advice doesn't explain what type of swing he's teaching.


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## One Planer (Sep 11, 2016)

You can tell from my forum handle that I have a one plane (flat) swing. 




While my position is position is flat at the top, I do not start down with an upper body rotation as I belive is advocated for someone with a OPS.

I have spend a lot of time and effort with my coach getting the sequencing correct for my downswin, in which my downswing is driven my my lower half with a neutral/quiet upper half.  

FWIW I have experimented with the upper body rotation and all I get are smother  hooks and pulls. Not for me I'm afraid.


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## mteam (Sep 11, 2016)

Tbh there's a lot more to the hardy one plane swing than your arms matching your shoulders at the top.


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## One Planer (Sep 11, 2016)

mteam said:



			Tbh there's a lot more to the hardy one plane swing than your arms matching your shoulders at the top.
		
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Very true however the flat vs upright positions at the top are one of the main features/distinctions.


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## the_coach (Sep 11, 2016)

Maninblack4612 said:



			As Jim Hardy explains in his book, this is not what he means by "One Plane", the one plane he is referring to is the position at the top of the swing, the relationship between the arms & the shoulders.

Also, surely anyone can swing the club on one plane, just go on an Explanar Â© to experience how it feels. The difference between "One Plane" & "Two Plane" in Jim Hardy parlance is in the steepness of the swing and the different movements required for each swing type. The difference between the swing fundamentals is the reason why so much of the advice you read in magazines appears to conflict. The reason being that the person handing out the advice doesn't explain what type of swing he's teaching.
		
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not sure what is meant by "this is not what he means" - my comments to the OP are about not getting too hung up on trying to 'fit' to a 'swing plane model' as a ways forwards - as largely this tends to confuse folks, as can often times be seen ...

folks often times think 'one plane' refers to the motion in it's entirety - so the inserted example of the almost true 'planar' swing of bryson 

swing plane is 'relative' to where in the motion during the swing has gotten too, the 'plane' changes over the time of the swing  because it's movements in 3d space (and time), not 2d

when a "one plane -er" (using the reference to the lead arm to shoulder angle being similar atop the swing) makes a swing
if at some point on the ways to impact on the downswing there is not some 'steepness' (insert - shaft made tad more vertical) being introduced from hip height with shaft parallel to the ground downwards into the strike, or 'steepness' introduced at transition followed by a re-shallowing of the shaft, making contact at impact would be a tad problematic 

the explanar is designed to be used only with rollers for a very good reason


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## Maninblack4612 (Sep 11, 2016)

See 



the_coach said:



			not sure what is meant by "this is not what he means" - my comments to the OP are about not getting too hung up on trying to 'fit' to a 'swing plane model' as a ways forwards - as largely this tends to confuse folks, as can often times be seen ...

folks often times think 'one plane' refers to the motion in it's entirety - so the inserted example of the almost true 'planar' swing of bryson 

swing plane is 'relative' to where in the motion during the swing has gotten too, the 'plane' changes over the time of the swing  because it's movements in 3d space (and time), not 2d

when a "one plane -er" (using the reference to the lead arm to shoulder angle being similar atop the swing) makes a swing
if at some point on the ways to impact on the downswing there is not some 'steepness' (insert - shaft made tad more vertical) being introduced from hip height with shaft parallel to the ground downwards into the strike, or 'steepness' introduced at transition followed by a re-shallowing of the shaft, making contact at impact would be a tad problematic 

the explanar is designed to be used only with rollers for a very good reason
		
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I would comment on this if I could understand it! 

P. S.  I have used an Explanar with a proper golf club & it feels fine. Thought the roller was just to save wear on the club & provide some weight for muscle development.


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