# Scotland V Germany



## williamalex1 (Sep 7, 2015)

2-2 half time :whoo:.


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## NWJocko (Sep 7, 2015)

Set up perfectly for the inevitable glorious failure!

To be fair we've hardly had a kick in the first half


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## GreiginFife (Sep 7, 2015)

Well, that lasted long.


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## NWJocko (Sep 7, 2015)

GreiginFife said:



			Well, that lasted long.
		
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Could be more of a regulation hammering now........


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## GreiginFife (Sep 7, 2015)

I took Germany -2 after the Georgia farce. 5-2 might be asking too much.


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## williamalex1 (Sep 7, 2015)

Oh yee of little faith.


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## GreiginFife (Sep 7, 2015)

williamalex1 said:



			Oh yee of little faith. 

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Did you watch that sheeite from Friday? Abysmal.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 7, 2015)

Cracking game for the neutral


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## c1973 (Sep 7, 2015)

Republic of Ireland now one up..........oh dear, looks like they've made an arse of qualifying..........yet again!  

:rofl:


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## c1973 (Sep 7, 2015)

Glorious Ausfall noch einmal ?


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## williamalex1 (Sep 7, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Glorious Ausfall noch einmal ?
		
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Ok Hans up. :lol:


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## c1973 (Sep 7, 2015)

Hande hoch?

If my childhood memory of Victor and Warlord comics serves me well.


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## banacek303 (Sep 8, 2015)

Close but no cigar


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 8, 2015)

Oh well, another tournament supporting the mighty ABE.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 8, 2015)

So does it look like all the home nations might qualify bar Scotland ?


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## turkish (Sep 8, 2015)

More than Likely phil! shot ourselves in the foot on Friday but was always gonna be a tough group

If we can beat Poland in the next match I think we will get to playoffs


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## Val (Sep 8, 2015)

Did anyone actually think we'd beat the world champions? I think we did all right to lose 3-2.

Always going to be a hellish group, Georgia was always going to be our banana skin but that aside I think our performances have been decent. 

We do lack a goal scorer though.


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## NWJocko (Sep 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So does it look like all the home nations might qualify bar Scotland ?
		
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Looks that way, expectations were low (well mine were) when we pulled that group anyway. Might scrape into a play off but doubt we'd get through that either!


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 8, 2015)

Val said:



			Did anyone actually think we'd beat the world champions? I think we did all right to lose 3-2.

Always going to be a hellish group, Georgia was always going to be our banana skin but that aside I think our performances have been decent. 

We do lack a goal scorer though.
		
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We did much better than I expected. But, yeah, Georgia was always looking like a problem. 

Still chat of making the play off but I somehow think Poland will beat us too.


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## patricks148 (Sep 8, 2015)

Thats the first game of football Ive watched in a long time... We did rather better than i expected TBH considering the lack of possession.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 8, 2015)

NWJocko said:



			Looks that way, expectations were low (well mine were) when we pulled that group anyway. Might scrape into a play off but doubt we'd get through that either!
		
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Thought it would come down to the three teams ROI , Poland and Scotland and it looks like the result against Georgia is going to be the killer


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 8, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Oh well, another tournament supporting the mighty ABE.



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Time to get your ABE T-Shirts out and make sure they're aired off and ready to wear with pride.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 8, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Time to get your ABE T-Shirts out and make sure they're aired off and ready to wear with pride. 

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We've won every major tournament in my lifetime, hope the run continues!

:whoo:


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## NWJocko (Sep 8, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			We've won every major tournament in my lifetime, hope the run continues!

:whoo:
		
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:clap: :clap: :clap:


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## NWJocko (Sep 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Thought it would come down to the three teams ROI , Poland and Scotland and it looks like the result against Georgia is going to be the killer
		
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It was always going to be between us 3 for 2nd but we're the weakest team of the 3 hence low expectations.

Scoreline flattered us last night, Germany were very impressive.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 8, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			We've won every major tournament in my lifetime, hope the run continues!

:whoo:
		
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Brilliant :clap: :clap:


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## c1973 (Sep 8, 2015)

2nd highest ranking team in the group I believe. Drawn against the bottom ranked team in every pot (with the exception of Germany) were they not? 
Poland are not the team they were, neither are ROI and you should be dealing with teams like Georgia to be perfectly honest.  

They should be qualifying from a group like that imo. Not struggling to make the play offs. Half of Europe (or as near as damn it)  are qualifying for this tourney for pitys sake.


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## Spuddy (Sep 8, 2015)

c1973 said:



			2nd highest ranking team in the group I believe. Drawn against the bottom ranked team in every pot (with the exception of Germany) were they not? 
Poland are not the team they were, neither are ROI and you should be dealing with teams like Georgia to be perfectly honest.  

They should be qualifying from a group like that imo. Not struggling to make the play offs. Half of Europe (or as near as damn it)  are qualifying for this tourney for pitys sake.
		
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Scotland were 4th seeds when the draw was made as they don't use the Fifa world rankings.  If they finish 3rd then they'll likely only miss out on 2nd by virtue of Friday's result:- they'll have a better head to head record against both Ireland and Poland.  Some of the performances haven't been great but I don't think it's all been as doom and gloom as you make out.


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## c1973 (Sep 8, 2015)

Spuddy said:



			Scotland were 4th seeds when the draw was made as they don't use the Fifa world rankings.  If they finish 3rd then they'll likely only miss out on 2nd by virtue of Friday's result:- they'll have a better head to head record against both Ireland and Poland.  Some of the performances haven't been great but I don't think it's all been as doom and gloom as you make out.
		
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The point I'm making is (and this is obviously based on a failure to qualify, which is not decided yet) their is imo a general acceptance of failure when it comes to the national team.  It's always 'oh we were unlucky', 'we're not far away', 'we're improving' etc, etc. It's laughable. 

They were ranked above all these teams except Germany (I believe) when the draw was made......they should be beating the other teams in our group imo. If you disagree that's fine, I don't have a problem with that. 
But, again, imo, excusing their failure (and I accept its still possible they could qualify) to qualify from this group is part of the problem.  

If ye accept dross then you'll get served dross more often than not.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 8, 2015)

When Wales can reach 9th in the World Rankings it make all of our standard excuses look a bit drippy.

Does anyone know if the new ABE strips are for sale yet ?


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## Three (Sep 8, 2015)

turkish said:



			More than Likely phil! shot ourselves in the foot on Friday but was always gonna be a tough group

If we can beat Poland in the next match I think we will get to playoffs
		
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No chance.


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## williamalex1 (Sep 8, 2015)

Three said:



			No chance.
		
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What odds are you prepared to give on Scotland getting a win or draw ? :smirk:


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## Three (Sep 8, 2015)

williamalex1 said:



			What odds are you prepared to give on Scotland getting a win or draw ? :smirk:
		
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Where are they playing?


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## williamalex1 (Sep 8, 2015)

Three said:



			Where are they playing?
		
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Hampden park Glasgow, October 8.


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## Spuddy (Sep 8, 2015)

c1973 said:



			The point I'm making is (and this is obviously based on a failure to qualify, which is not decided yet) their is imo a general acceptance of failure when it comes to the national team.  It's always 'oh we were unlucky', 'we're not far away', 'we're improving' etc, etc. It's laughable. 

They were ranked above all these teams except Germany (I believe) when the draw was made......they should be beating the other teams in our group imo. If you disagree that's fine, I don't have a problem with that. 
But, again, imo, excusing their failure (and I accept its still possible they could qualify) to qualify from this group is part of the problem.  

If ye accept dross then you'll get served dross more often than not.
		
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I think they are similar in level to Poland and Ireland and always thought it would be tight amongst those three.   Don't get me wrong,  I wouldn't make any excuses if they don't get through and I think some of the team selections have shown a blindness to the ineptitude of some of the 'favourites' in the team.  Unfortunately Scotland won't succeed until there is a clear out of the old boys club in the SFA and a complete change in coaching tactics from the grassroots up.


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## Three (Sep 8, 2015)

williamalex1 said:



			Hampden park Glasgow, October 8.
		
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I have no idea how we bet or give odds on a forum bet , but I'll wager that the best Scotland get against Poland is a draw.


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## williamalex1 (Sep 8, 2015)

Three said:



			I have no idea how we bet or give odds on a forum bet , but I'll wager that the best Scotland get against Poland is a draw.
		
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But you said Scotland had no chance, so you should be giving quite good odds.

 ATM, on line I can get 17/10 for a Scotland win, 23/10 on a draw. or Poland 15/8 to win.

 So the bookies think we have a chance of beating Poland.. The Republic of Ireland have still to play Poland and Germany both away i think , so they could struggle to get another point . Unless their opponents field weakened teams if they've already qualified.


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## Three (Sep 8, 2015)

williamalex1 said:



			But you said Scotland had no chance, so you should be giving quite good odds.

 ATM, on line I can get 17/10 for a Scotland win, 23/10 on a draw. or Poland 15/8 to win.

 So the bookies think we have a chance of beating Poland.. The Republic of Ireland have still to play Poland and Germany both away i think , so they could struggle to get another point . Unless their opponents field weakened teams if they've already qualified.
		
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Lol. What odds would you like?


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## ger147 (Sep 8, 2015)

Three said:



			Lol. What odds would you like?
		
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50-1 has a nice ring to it


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## NWJocko (Sep 8, 2015)

c1973 said:



			The point I'm making is (and this is obviously based on a failure to qualify, which is not decided yet) their is imo a general acceptance of failure when it comes to the national team.  It's always 'oh we were unlucky', 'we're not far away', 'we're improving' etc, etc. It's laughable. 

They were ranked above all these teams except Germany (I believe) when the draw was made......they should be beating the other teams in our group imo. If you disagree that's fine, I don't have a problem with that. 
But, again, imo, excusing their failure (and I accept its still possible they could qualify) to qualify from this group is part of the problem.  

If ye accept dross then you'll get served dross more often than not.
		
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Ah, the old Rangers fans (some of, not all) views on Scotland.....

I don't accept excuses, the fact is "dross" is pretty much what we are hence my low expectations. We weren't unlucky last night, Germany could have won by 5 or 6.

The rankings are nonsense, the seedlings for these draws are more indicative of standing IMO and we were seeded 4th.

Demanding better is fine if you've got a chequebook to improve it, Scotland's players are limited in ability (particularly in an attacking sense) so not sure what you would suggest?


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## c1973 (Sep 8, 2015)

NWJocko said:



			Ah, the old Rangers fans (some of, not all) views on Scotland.....

I don't accept excuses, the fact is "dross" is pretty much what we are hence my low expectations. We weren't unlucky last night, Germany could have won by 5 or 6.

The rankings are nonsense, the seedlings for these draws are more indicative of standing IMO and we were seeded 4th.

Demanding better is fine if you've got a chequebook to improve it, Scotland's players are limited in ability (particularly in an attacking sense) so not sure what you would suggest?
		
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Well, I'd probably have played Griffiths up front and not Fletcher for a start. Went for the goals against Georgia at all costs and not been too fussed about the Germans. 

Does that fit in with the thinking behind yer first sentence btw? 

Their my views, and have **** all to do with the team I support (which appears to be a bit of an issue from time to time with some folk on here if you ask me!!) It does tend to get brought into discussions (not by me btw) when its not really merited. 

It makes you wonder and really pisses you off after a while.


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## Farneyman (Sep 8, 2015)

I believe Scotland will still make the play offs at Irelands expense as I think we will struggle to take any points from our last 2 games home to Germany and then away to Poland. 

Then again we could sneak 6 points!


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## Farneyman (Sep 8, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Well, I'd probably have played Griffiths up front and not Fletcher for a start. Went for the goals against Georgia at all costs and not been too fussed about the Germans. 

Does that fit in with the thinking behind yer first sentence btw? 

Their my views, and have **** all to do with the team I support (which appears to be a bit of an issue from time to time with some folk on here if you ask me!!) It does tend to get brought into discussions (not by me btw) when its not really merited. 

It makes you wonder and really pisses you off after a while.
		
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Why are you so down on your national team? Genuine question.


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## NWJocko (Sep 8, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Well, I'd probably have played Griffiths up front and not Fletcher for a start. Went for the goals against Georgia at all costs and not been too fussed about the Germans. 

Does that fit in with the thinking behind yer first sentence btw? 

Their my views, and have **** all to do with the team I support (which appears to be a bit of an issue from time to time with some folk on here if you ask me!!) It does tend to get brought into discussions (not by me btw) when its not really merited. 

It makes you wonder and really pisses you off after a while.
		
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Not as much as listening to some a rangers fans views on the National team 

Griffiths would have made a massive difference when we had none of the ball, you're right.....

Scotland have so few decent attacking players that "going for goals" is easier said than done. Been the same way for years, hence why we can defend our way to narrow defeats or the odd draw against better teams but put the focus on us to go and beat teams it's a different story.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 8, 2015)

Farneyman said:



			Why are you so down on your national team? Genuine question.
		
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Given the limited resources and the quality of the SPL I think the Scots have done well and are making decent progress under Strachan with some talented young players coming through


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## c1973 (Sep 8, 2015)

Farneyman said:



			Why are you so down on your national team? Genuine question.
		
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As mentioned, I believe there is an 'ach at least we tried' mentality that is deemed acceptable by the fans, the teams, the gaffers and the FA.  They should have got a rocket up their erse for the Georgia result.......and plenty others before that. 

Fair enough against teams like Germany, but far too many times they don't seem to try as hard in the games they could and should win.  I can't give teams like that my support, I really can't. 

And as long as folks support that, it ain't gonna change for the better. 

We should be beating the teams in that group imo (Germans aside).


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## c1973 (Sep 8, 2015)

NWJocko said:



*Not as much as listening to some a rangers fans views on the National team *

Griffiths would have made a massive difference when we had none of the ball, you're right.....

Scotland have so few decent attacking players that "going for goals" is easier said than done. Been the same way for years, hence why we can defend our way to narrow defeats or the odd draw against better teams but put the focus on us to go and beat teams it's a different story.
		
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Well, we are used to winning and tend not to tolerate mediocrity. Maybe take a leaf out their book and force change?

If y'all are happy with glorious failure, then carry on, don't let me spoil the party. Just don't expect me to join in.


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## c1973 (Sep 8, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Given the limited resources and the quality of the SPL I think the Scots have done well and are making decent progress under Strachan with some talented young players coming through
		
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We've been 'making progress' since Craig Broon left! How much 'progress' can a team make? 'Progress' doesn't seem to get you into tournaments.


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## NWJocko (Sep 8, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Well, we are used to winning and tend not to tolerate mediocrity. Maybe take a leaf out their book and force change?

If y'all are happy with glorious failure, then carry on, don't let me spoil the party. Just don't expect me to join in.
		
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Why do you assume that Scotland fans accept mediocrity and don't want success as much as "ra people" do?

You'll be happy with the score tonight I'm sure


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## c1973 (Sep 8, 2015)

NWJocko said:



			Why do you assume that Scotland fans accept mediocrity and don't want success as much as "ra people" do?

You'll be happy with the score tonight I'm sure 

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Whatever.


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## Farneyman (Sep 8, 2015)

c1973 said:



			As mentioned, I believe there is an 'ach at least we tried' mentality that is deemed acceptable by the fans, the teams, the gaffers and the FA.  They should have got a rocket up their erse for the Georgia result.......and plenty others before that. 

Fair enough against teams like Germany, but far too many times they don't seem to try as hard in the games they could and should win.  I can't give teams like that my support, I really can't. 

And as long as folks support that, it ain't gonna change for the better. 

We should be beating the teams in that group imo (Germans aside).
		
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But surely thats what a football fan does...sticks with "their" team no matter what??? 

As far as club football goes I have zero interest in it these days and enjoy the national games as I can remember as a young kid watching Ireland in qualifying for Euro 88, Italia 90 and USA 94 and the craic and results that followed with those tournaments  

I think I was confused by some of your posts and wasnt sure if you were Scottish as you mentioned "they" meaning Scotland in a post and then in another post "we". However I am easily confused. 

If Scotland were doing better would you support them?


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## chippa1909 (Sep 8, 2015)

Farneyman said:



			Why are you so down on your national team? Genuine question.
		
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Because he's a Rangers supporter. Lots (not all) support England and NI for ahem various reasons.


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## c1973 (Sep 8, 2015)

Farneyman said:



			But surely thats what a football fan does...sticks with "their" team no matter what??? 

As far as club football goes I have zero interest in it these days and enjoy the national games as I can remember as a young kid watching Ireland in qualifying for Euro 88, Italia 90 and USA 94 and the craic and results that followed with those tournaments  

I think I was confused by some of your posts and wasnt sure if you were Scottish as you mentioned "they" meaning Scotland in a post and then in another post "we". However I am easily confused. 

If Scotland were doing better would you support them?
		
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Probably not.  I'm too long away from them to have the passion a fan should have.


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## c1973 (Sep 8, 2015)

chippa1909 said:



			Because he's a Rangers supporter. Lots (not all) support England and NI for ahem various reasons.
		
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See previous post as to what I think of this. 
And you say my rhetoric is disgraceful and makes me look foolish.

Have a word with yourself.


Edit. Really sick of these sly insinuations now. It's not the first time, nowhere near, (even had it from a mod) and tends to go unchecked. Really poor show imo.


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## Farneyman (Sep 8, 2015)

chippa1909 said:



			Because he's a Rangers supporter. Lots (not all) support England and NI for ahem various reasons.
		
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 I know lots of Rangers fans and only think of one who would put Eng ahead of Scotland but I do get that many do. Any that put NI ahead of Scotland are just daft :whoo:


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## chippa1909 (Sep 8, 2015)

Oh, I know a fair few.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 8, 2015)

Listening to the England fans singing 'Rule Britiania', are they confused ?


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## NWJocko (Sep 8, 2015)

c1973 said:



			See previous post as to what I think of this. 
And you say my rhetoric is disgraceful and makes me look foolish.

Have a word with yourself.


Edit. Really sick of these sly insinuations now. It's not the first time, nowhere near, (even had it from a mod) and tends to go unchecked. Really poor show imo.
		
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I'll apologise for tarring you with the brush of some "fans" I've had the misfortune to come across in my time although was tongue in cheek.

However, you are free to mock Scotland fans for supporting their team but when you are questioned it's ok to throw the toys out the pram? I do hope the 15,000 gers fans missing from ibrox find "the passion" next year again, I'm sure they will.

Did you ever support Scotland out of interest? If so what put you off?


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## c1973 (Sep 8, 2015)

NWJocko said:



			I'll apologise for tarring you with the brush of some "fans" I've had the misfortune to come across in my time although was tongue in cheek.

However, you are free to mock Scotland fans for supporting their team but when you are questioned it's ok to throw the toys out the pram? I do hope the 15,000 gers fans missing from ibrox find "the passion" next year again, I'm sure they will.

*Did you ever support Scotland out of interest? If so what put you off?*

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Yep. Been to quite a few games as a youngster. Already explained.


Toys aren't out the pram. Just a bit fed up with sly insinuations that crop up from time time on here (as mentioned).  

Anyway, I've put my opinion over, ill bow out, let you discuss your team in peace and let others figure out what chippa was insinuating with his 'ahem various reasons' comment.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 8, 2015)

Farneyman said:



			But surely thats what a football fan does...sticks with "their" team no matter what??? 

As far as club football goes I have zero interest in it these days and enjoy the national games as I can remember as a young kid watching Ireland in qualifying for Euro 88, Italia 90 and USA 94 and the craic and results that followed with those tournaments  

I think I was confused by some of your posts and wasnt sure if you were Scottish as you mentioned "they" meaning Scotland in a post and then in another post "we". However I am easily confused. 

If Scotland were doing better would you support them?
		
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I'm looking forward to Scotland's other major team challenging for the SPL while developing and bringing through young Scottish talent for the Scotland Squad - cos they haven't been much help over the last few years - maybe make that a bit longer than a 'few' years.   And we need a wee bit more - and that other team should be able to provide it, if they put their mind to it.


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## Robster59 (Sep 8, 2015)

On a slight aside, I was in a hotel last night in Manchester and the blokes in the bar (all English) were cheering for Scotland.  
I very much doubt that if England were on in a Scottish bar the English team would be being cheered on.


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## Farneyman (Sep 8, 2015)

Robster59 said:



			On a slight aside, I was in a hotel last night in Manchester and the blokes in the bar (all English) were cheering for Scotland.  
I very much doubt that if England were on in a Scottish bar the English team would be being cheered on.
		
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In fairness they were playing Germany :whoo:


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 9, 2015)

Farneyman said:



			In fairness they were playing Germany :whoo:
		
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:lol:


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## Hobbit (Sep 9, 2015)

c1973 said:



			As mentioned, I believe there is an 'ach at least we tried' mentality that is deemed acceptable by the fans, the teams, the gaffers and the FA.  They should have got a rocket up their erse for the Georgia result.......and plenty others before that. 

Fair enough against teams like Germany, but far too many times they don't seem to try as hard in the games they could and should win.  I can't give teams like that my support, I really can't. 

And as long as folks support that, it ain't gonna change for the better. 

We should be beating the teams in that group imo (Germans aside).
		
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Well said!:thup:

There's too many 'political' comments(excuses) made by managers and boards, when in reality sometimes you just have to say it as it is. Not good enough, naive whatever, but at least be honest.

Scotland, like England, have failed to deliver on many occasions down the years. Recognising it, and dealing with it with passion is the only way forward.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 9, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I'm looking forward to Scotland's other major team challenging for the SPL while developing and bringing through young Scottish talent for the Scotland Squad - cos they haven't been much help over the last few years - maybe make that a bit longer than a 'few' years.   And we need a wee bit more - and that other team should be able to provide it, if they put their mind to it.
		
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Since when did Rangers or Celtic develop young talent ?
Difficult to name one decent Scottish player over the last 20 years who have come through their systems.
They usually just buy the other Scottish teams best players.


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## Val (Sep 9, 2015)

Robster59 said:



			On a slight aside, I was in a hotel last night in Manchester and the blokes in the bar (all English) were cheering for Scotland.  
I very much doubt that if England were on in a Scottish bar the English team would be being cheered on.
		
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Likewise in Runcorn


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## Val (Sep 9, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Since when did Rangers or Celtic develop young talent ?
Difficult to name one decent Scottish player over the last 20 years who have come through their systems.
They usually just buy the other Scottish teams best players.
		
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Barry Ferguson? 

I'll go on with more if you like


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 9, 2015)

Val said:



			Barry Ferguson? 

I'll go on with more if you like
		
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Square Baws can't be too far off his pension now.:lol:


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 9, 2015)

Robster59 said:



			On a slight aside, I was in a hotel last night in Manchester and the blokes in the bar (all English) were cheering for Scotland.  
I very much doubt that if England were on in a Scottish bar the English team would be being cheered on.
		
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I really cant ever see a problem with Scottish people cheering on Englands opponents.

Scotland are Englands biggest rivals - its part and parcel of support that there will always be a need to want the to do badly 

its the same with peoples idea that English teams should be supported in Europe by other teams fans - No - support your own team and then want others to fail.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 9, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I really cant ever see a problem with Scottish people cheering on Englands opponents.

Scotland are Englands biggest rivals - its part and parcel of support that there will always be a need to want the to do badly 

its the same with peoples idea that English teams should be supported in Europe by other teams fans - No - support your own team and then want others to fail.
		
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Nope, totally disagree, I would love all four Home Nations and ROI to qualify for all tournaments, it would give the game in the UK and Ireland a massive lift, when we play each other, only want England to win, when England are out, happy to support the other teams, it's football not war, why would i want anyone else to fail because we have.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 9, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Nope, totally disagree, I would love all four Home Nations and ROI to qualify for all tournaments, it would give the game in the UK and Ireland a massive lift, when we play each other, only want England to win, when England are out, happy to support the other teams, it's football not war, why would i want anyone else to fail because we have.
		
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I agree. I hope as many of the home nations get through as possible and I'll be cheering them on (as long as it's not against England). Same when British teams play in Europe. I always want them to do well


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## Val (Sep 9, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Square Baws can't be too far off his pension now.:lol:
		
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Your point?


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## richart (Sep 9, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Nope, totally disagree, I would love all four Home Nations and ROI to qualify for all tournaments, it would give the game in the UK and Ireland a massive lift, when we play each other, only want England to win, when England are out, happy to support the other teams, it's football not war, why would i want anyone else to fail because we have.
		
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I agree, and the likes of Wales, Northern Ireland, ROI usually have one or two of our current or past players playing for them. I watched most of the N Ireland and Wales games last time out, but didn't bother much with the England game.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 9, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Since when did Rangers or Celtic develop young talent ?
Difficult to name one decent Scottish player over the last 20 years who have come through their systems.
They usually just buy the other Scottish teams best players.
		
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think I was mibbe being a wee bit t-i-c?


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## Robster59 (Sep 9, 2015)

I always support all the Home Nations, irrespective of who they are playing.  I'm old enough to remember that if you wanted to support a British team at the World Cup, it HAD to be Scotland.  Sadly they never seemed to play to what should have been the combined ability of the players they had at the time.  Saying that, England generally fail to impress when it comes to the major finals.


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## Farneyman (Sep 9, 2015)

Robster59 said:



			I'm old enough to remember that if you wanted to support a British team at the World Cup, it HAD to be Scotland.
		
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You should have been watching the mighty Republic of Ireland...at least we have got by the first round


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## Three (Sep 10, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Nope, totally disagree, I would love all four Home Nations and ROI to qualify for all tournaments, it would give the game in the UK and Ireland a massive lift, when we play each other, only want England to win, when England are out, happy to support the other teams, it's football not war, why would i want anyone else to fail because we have.
		
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You've obviously never sat in a bar in Ireland, Wales or Scotland when England are playing anyone in any sport. 

They hate us, it's pure vitriol.    ABE, Anyone But England, like FairwayDodger said somewhere. 

I gave up on this friendly business of supporting our neighbours a long time ago.


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## Beezerk (Sep 10, 2015)

Three said:



			You've obviously never sat in a bar in Ireland, Wales or Scotland when England are playing anyone in any sport. 

They hate us, it's pure vitriol.    ABE, Anyone But England, like FairwayDodger said somewhere. 

I gave up on this friendly business of supporting our neighbours a long time ago.
		
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Yep, had that one in abundance but that's their problem,  I don't think it's right to lower myself to the same standards.


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## Three (Sep 10, 2015)

Beezerk said:



			Yep, had that one in abundance but that's their problem,  I don't think it's right to lower myself to the same standards.
		
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Totally agree. 
I don't actively root against any of our neighbours, I just don't cheer for them. 
Just very neutral.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 10, 2015)

Three said:



			You've obviously never sat in a bar in Ireland, Wales or Scotland when England are playing anyone in any sport. 

They hate us, it's pure vitriol.    ABE, Anyone But England, like FairwayDodger said somewhere. 

I gave up on this friendly business of supporting our neighbours a long time ago.
		
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It's not hatred really, not on my part anyway, just a bit of fun. Fairly natural and understandable when you consider life in the shadow of a bigger and, consequently, more successful neighbour. Truth be told I'd probably support England more if we weren't subjected to your jingoistic coverage.


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## Three (Sep 10, 2015)

FairwayDodger;1361224Truth be told I'd probably support England more if we weren't subjected to your jingoistic coverage.[/QUOTE said:
			
		


			In other countries they call that patriotism. 
Not sure us English are allowed that nowadays 

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## FairwayDodger (Sep 10, 2015)

Three said:



			In other countries they call that patriotism. 
Not sure us English are allowed that nowadays 

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Don't misunderstand me, there's nothing wrong with the English media being jingoistic rather than impartial. The problem is that we get the same coverage. Give us unbiased commentary and you'd probably find more of us supporting England.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 10, 2015)

Three said:



			You've obviously never sat in a bar in Ireland, Wales or Scotland when England are playing anyone in any sport. 

They hate us, it's pure vitriol.    ABE, Anyone But England, like FairwayDodger said somewhere. 

I gave up on this friendly business of supporting our neighbours a long time ago.
		
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Sat in many a bar in many countries and saw the hatred and had the banter, so what, happy to stand shoulder to shoulder with anyone from those proud nations and keep my pride, we've got just as many mindless idiots as them.
We've brought a lot of it on to ourselves, look at the hooliganism of the 80's and 90's.
Proud to be English, Proud to be British and no issue with our fellow Britains, especially over sport.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 10, 2015)

Three said:



			In other countries they call that patriotism. 
Not sure us English are allowed that nowadays 

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Nobody likes us, everybody hates us.....blah blah blah, own worst enemy.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 10, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			think I was mibbe being a wee bit t-i-c? 

Click to expand...

:lol: I thought you were, but I posted in case others didn't.


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## Three (Sep 10, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Sat in many a bar in many countries and saw the hatred and had the banter, so what, happy to stand shoulder to shoulder with anyone from those proud nations and keep my pride, we've got just as many mindless idiots as them.
We've brought a lot of it on to ourselves, look at the hooliganism of the 80's and 90's.
Proud to be English, Proud to be British and no issue with our fellow Britains, especially over sport.
		
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I agree. 

Just saying that I no longer support the  British and Irish teams like so many English do, I just don't care either way now.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 10, 2015)

Val said:



			Your point?
		
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Surprised he is still only 37, seems to have been around for ever.
I was hoping for a more recent name.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 10, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Surprised he is still only 37, seems to have been around for ever.
I was hoping for a more recent name.
		
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You said it was difficult to name a player within the last 20 years - NW named one straight away - are you changing the boundaries ?


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## ger147 (Sep 10, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Surprised he is still only 37, seems to have been around for ever.
I was hoping for a more recent name.
		
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There certainly haven't been loads, but off the top of my head Forrest and McGeady both came thru the ranks at Celtic and Scott Wilson broke thru at Rangers before signing for Liverpool reserves. And Lewis McLeod recently broke thru at Ibrox but Rangers couldn't turn down the money offered for him in the situation they were in last year when the bid came in.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 10, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You said it was difficult to name a player within the last 20 years - NW named one straight away - are you changing the boundaries ?
		
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I will admit that he is just inside age the boundary, trouble is that he has not played at a decent level for some time now.
He falls into the Neil Lennon, Butch Wilkins, Paul Lambert style of midfielder so probably some will see him as a decent player.

My point being that it is difficult to name a decent young player that The Rangers or Celtic have developed over the last 20 years.
There does not seem to be a flood of them.


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## c1973 (Sep 10, 2015)

Who have, let's say, Hearts and St Johnstone brought through the ranks for the national team lately?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 10, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I will admit that he is just inside age the boundary, trouble is that he has not played at a decent level for some time now.
He falls into the Neil Lennon, Butch Wilkins, Paul Lambert style of midfielder so probably some will see him as a decent player.

My point being that it is difficult to name a decent young player that The Rangers or Celtic have developed over the last 20 years.
There does not seem to be a flood of them.
		
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It's not difficult - Barry Ferguson 

No matter how many times you dismiss it he was a very good player for Scotland and was developed by Rangers


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## ger147 (Sep 10, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Who have, let's say, Hearts and St Johnstone brought through the ranks for the national team lately? 

Click to expand...


From the last Scotland game, Maloney and Mulgrew came thru the Celtic youth system and Craig Gordon thru the Hearts youth set up.

So there are deffo some making the grade, altho not as many as we need.

EDIT - Marshall who actually played in goal, not Gordon, also came thru the ranks at Celtic.


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## c1973 (Sep 10, 2015)

ger147 said:



			From the last Scotland game, Maloney and Mulgrew came thru the Celtic youth system and Craig Gordon thru the Hearts youth set up.

So there are deffo some making the grade, altho not as many as we need.
		
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Not exactly a flood of players from Hearts or St Johnstone though.


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## ger147 (Sep 10, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Not exactly a flood of players from Hearts or St Johnstone though. 

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Eh naw.

Doon does have a point about Celtic and Rangers sooking up all the best players from the wee teams but they do also produce their own (some of which I have listed above).  I suspect the Big 2 will have to do a better job of transitioning more young players into their 1st teams as the cost of signing and/or keeping even decent players is WAY beyond the means of Scottish teams these days.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 10, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I will admit that he is just inside age the boundary, trouble is that he has not played at a decent level for some time now.
He falls into the Neil Lennon, Butch Wilkins, Paul Lambert style of midfielder so probably some will see him as a decent player.

My point being that it is difficult to name a decent young player that The Rangers or Celtic have developed over the last 20 years.
There does not seem to be a flood of them.
		
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James Forest, Aiden McGeedy, Charlie Mulgrew, David Marshall, Alan McGregor, Alan Hutton, Danny Wilson, Lewis Mcleod, Ross McCormack, Chris Burke, Charlie Adam off the top of my head. And plenty others plying their trade in the SPL or in England at the moment.


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## Val (Sep 10, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			James Forest, Aiden McGeedy, Charlie Mulgrew, David Marshall, Alan McGregor, Alan Hutton, Danny Wilson, Lewis Mcleod, Ross McCormack, Chris Burke, Charlie Adam off the top of my head. And plenty others plying their trade in the SPL or in England at the moment.
		
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I tried to drip feed him as he doesn't appear to be very bright.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 10, 2015)

Val said:



			I tried to drip feed him as he doesn't appear to be very bright.
		
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I bet there are plenty more than that from Celtic as well but, with my sympathies, you'll appreciate that I'm not as tuned in to them.

Whatever happened to John Fleck? I thought he was going to be a superstar but don't remember where he went....


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 10, 2015)

Val said:



			I tried to drip feed him as he doesn't appear to be very bright.
		
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More likely embarrassed at the quality I think


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## c1973 (Sep 10, 2015)

I'll ask again. 

Hearts, St Johnstone, how many have they brought through?


Come on now, must be loads, otherwise the resident Jambo and tractor boy (St Johnstone fan)  wouldn't be so quick to criticise rangers and celtic (every chance they get, whether relevant or not) for their contribution over the years.



Over to you lads, give us a nice long list of quality youngsters that have came through yer ranks and set international football alight with their skills.


(Could be quite a long wait methinks).


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## gdunc79 (Sep 10, 2015)

Stevie May? Oh wait, he only got a cap as soon as he left St.Johnstone - which is quite often the way with the smaller clubs. Player instantly becomes so much better the day they walk into Celtic Park or Ibrox.  My complete apathy towards the national team can probably be traced to players being called up mostly due to who they play for or because of an old pals act. Form seems to be almost disregarded when the Scotland squad is being selected.


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## Robster59 (Sep 10, 2015)

gdunc79 said:



			Stevie May? Oh wait, he only got a cap as soon as he left St.Johnstone - which is quite often the way with the smaller clubs. Player instantly becomes so much better the day they walk into Celtic Park or Ibrox.  My complete apathy towards the national team can probably be traced to players being called up mostly due to who they play for or because of an old pals act. Form seems to be almost disregarded when the Scotland squad is being selected.
		
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It certainly seems to be disregarded when they're playing at the moment.


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## Val (Sep 10, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			More likely embarrassed at the quality I think

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How many changes do you want.

First it was youngsters in the last 20 years

Then it was players still playing

Now it's quality you arent embarrassed about.

The Scotland team has been average at very best since the mid 90's (20 years). That is not the fault of any Scottish or English football club, it's just the way it is, the quality of footballer isn't there any more in Scotland or England for that matter.


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## Val (Sep 10, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			I bet there are plenty more than that from Celtic as well but, with my sympathies, you'll appreciate that I'm not as tuned in to them.

Whatever happened to John Fleck? I thought he was going to be a superstar but don't remember where he went....
		
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Celtic have had tonnes who all went onto to get caps (not all Scotland i'll add), a few off my head below

Stephen McManus
Liam Miller
Colin Healy
Mark Burchill
Michael McGovern
Stephen Crainey
Craig Beattie
Darren O'Dea
Ross Wallace
Jamie Smith


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 10, 2015)

Val said:



			How many changes do you want.

First it was youngsters in the last 20 years

Then it was players still playing

Now it's quality you arent embarrassed about.

The Scotland team has been average at very best since the mid 90's (20 years). That is not the fault of any Scottish or English football club, it's just the way it is, the quality of footballer isn't there any more in Scotland or England for that matter.
		
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The original post said, decent young players developed by The Rangers & Celtic over the last 20 years.
Decent = quality in my eyes.


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## ger147 (Sep 10, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The original post said, decent young players developed by The Rangers & Celtic over the last 20 years.
*Decent = quality in my eyes*.
		
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You need new eyes...

Decent = Decent, Quality = Quality.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 10, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The original post said, decent young players developed by The Rangers & Celtic over the last 20 years.
Decent = quality in my eyes.
		
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Give us your idea of a decent player then so we can see where the line is for you


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## c1973 (Sep 10, 2015)

Still no takers for Hearts and St Johnstone players, from their vocal (when slating other teams) support on here then?

Come on, there's got to be some; if you can find fault in Rangers and celtics attempts then surely your own teams are producing them by the score. No?


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## c1973 (Sep 10, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Give us your idea of a decent player then so we can see where the line is for you
		
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Wasting your time.  Very quick to dive in when an opportunity to troll is presented, not so quick with a (relevant) response when confronted though. 

His knowledge of football is on a par with his grasp of political matters. 
His grip on reality could also be called into question when you read some of the tripe he posts as well.


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## Robster59 (Sep 10, 2015)

Val said:



			How many changes do you want.

First it was youngsters in the last 20 years

Then it was players still playing

Now it's quality you arent embarrassed about.

The Scotland team has been average at very best since the mid 90's (20 years). That is not the fault of any Scottish or English football club, it's just the way it is, *the quality of footballer isn't there any more in Scotland or England for that matter*.
		
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I don't actually believe that.  I am sure out there are some great potential footballers but they are being missed out for a number of reasons.

Clubs want a quick fix and prefer to buy in skilled "ready to use" players rather than the time and effort of the youth system
By investing so much in high wages, they can't afford to run a good youth system
Scouting needs improving
The process of bringing good British players through needs reviewing


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## gdunc79 (Sep 10, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Still no takers for Hearts and St Johnstone players, from their vocal (when slating other teams) support on here then?

Come on, there's got to be some; if you can find fault in Rangers and celtics attempts then surely your own teams are producing them by the score. No?
		
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Did you not read my post above? The Scotland selection policy over the years has seen the fashionable thing to do be to call up journeymen from Rangers, Celtic or Championship level and below rather then give players on form for the likes of Aberdeen, St Johnstone and Dundee United a chance. Of course as soon as one of these on form players departs said club and joins either Rangers, Celtic or a diddy team in England they instantly become international class. Completely laughable.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 10, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Give us your idea of a decent player then so we can see where the line is for you
		
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That's why I am asking as I cannot think of one.
Perhaps it will help if I can think of Scotland's best player in the last 20 years.

No, still not working.

Maybees Barry Ferguson, Craig Gordon, Paul Lambert and Darren Fletcher fit the bill.
Although Fletcher was never great in a Scotland jersey.
Perhaps I am missing an obvious choice.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 10, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			That's why I am asking as I cannot think of one.
Perhaps it will help if I can think of Scotland's best player in the last 20 years.

No, still not working.

Maybees Barry Ferguson, Craig Gordon, Paul Lambert and Darren Fletcher fit the bill.
Although Fletcher was never great in a Scotland jersey.
Perhaps I am missing an obvious choice.
		
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You are avoiding the questions - provide us with the level of player you deem decent ?

IMO Barry Ferguson was a decent player 

So what is your level


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 10, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You are avoiding the questions - provide us with the level of player you deem decent ?

IMO Barry Ferguson was a decent player 

So what is your level
		
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Strewth.
How about the four I mentioned in the post:lol:


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 10, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Strewth.
How about the four I mentioned in the post:lol:
		
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Well one of them is Barry Ferguson 

So your initial question was asked straight away then !


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## c1973 (Sep 10, 2015)

gdunc79 said:



			Did you not read my post above? The Scotland selection policy over the years has seen the fashionable thing to do be to call up journeymen from Rangers, Celtic or Championship level and below rather then give players on form for the likes of Aberdeen, St Johnstone and Dundee United a chance. Of course as soon as one of these on form players departs said club and joins either Rangers, Celtic or a diddy team in England they instantly become international class. Completely laughable.
		
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I read it . :thup:

I would agree with what you say to a certain point, but I think you may have missed the point I was trying to make (not that it matters btw). 



I'm aiming my post directly at specific individuals who slate Rangers (in particular) and Celtic every time an opportunity arises (or is engineered, usually by them) to provide examples of players, from their supported clubs youth system, that have came through (apparently it has to be relatively recent and they have to be quality.....or was it decent, I can't keep up tbf) and went on to star for the Scottish national team. 

As I see it, their clubs must be doing a great job of bringing them through if they can single out other clubs for their inability.

They don't need to be playing for them, just been spotted, nurtured and come through their youth set up. It shouldn't be difficult to do. 


You see, I believe they are trolling but I'm perfectly happy to accept they are debating from a position of strength (knowledge at a stretch). 
A few examples (well, more than has been provided to disprove dft) would put my gas at a peep.


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## Val (Sep 10, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Strewth.
How about the four I mentioned in the post:lol:
		
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Barry Ferguson is the only player you mention through Celtic or Rangers ranks.

Are you serious when you say Celtic produced no one despite examples given?


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## c1973 (Sep 10, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Strewth.
How about the four I mentioned in the post:lol:
		
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Come on then. How many have Hearts brought through the ranks? 

It must be more than Rangers or Celtic for you to keep wittering on about them and slating them. What about your own team?


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 10, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Come on then. How many have Hearts brought through the ranks? 

It must be more than Rangers or Celtic for you to keep wittering on about them and slating them. What about your own team?
		
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John Robertson! :whoo:

Dave MacKay!


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## c1973 (Sep 10, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			John Robertson! :whoo:

Dave MacKay!
		
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Lol. 

Recent players, mind, recent. 


I've got McLaren and Gordon from the top of my head.  Hardly anything to crow about tbf. 


They did supply the Lithuanian national team for a few years mind you. Not sure if that counts though. 


Anyway, I doubt it's back on block for that one.


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## Val (Sep 10, 2015)

Yon boy that Rangers had was a player, Templeton, unsure if he got capped though. Gary Locke likewise about the cap, Christophe Berra, Scott Sevrin or was he Aberdeen.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 10, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Come on then. How many have Hearts brought through the ranks? 

It must be more than Rangers or Celtic for you to keep wittering on about them and slating them. What about your own team?
		
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As I keep saying only Craig Gordon would merit a mention.
But Pressley, Webster, Berra, Cameron, McCann were goodish players. Between them they won a few Caps.
Not sure how many started at Hearts but I do know that The Rangers and Celtic signed most of them. I have a feeling Webster started at The Rangers. 

It is interesting to also note that The Rangers have improved quite a bit since signing the four Hearts players this season. Having a decent, quality manager helps as well.


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## c1973 (Sep 10, 2015)

Severin and Locke started out at Musselburgh Athletic and Whitehill Welfare respectively. So not 'produced' through the youth ranks. More a case of 'bought from a smaller club' (sounds familiar that) when around 19 or 20. 

David Cooper Templeton has kind of dropped out the picture,but started out at Stenhousemuir, not a full international so we can't count him anyway.    I'd actually kind of forgotten about that boy. 

Berra can be added to the other two (a player I quite liked for a spell incidentally).    Another nine and we can put a team on the park!   Christ, even Hibs have made more of a contribution to the national set up!! D


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## c1973 (Sep 10, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			As I keep saying only Craig Gordon would merit a mention.
But Pressley, Webster, Berra, Cameron, McCann were goodish players. Between them  they won a few Caps.
*Not sure how many started at Hearts *but I do know that The Rangers and Celtic signed most of them. I have a feeling Webster started at The Rangers. 

It is interesting to also note that The Rangers have improved quite a bit since signing the four Hearts players this season. Having a decent, quality manager helps as well.
		
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Which was the whole point of the question!  



Still, you managed to get The Rangers in there. Which is nice, cos we've been calling our team that for donkeys years. 

Presley?     Inverkeithing then Rangers. 


Fact is, your team has contributed the square root of the FA to the national football team in recent years.   You might want to bang on about that before pouring scorn on other teams.  :thup:


Btw, what 'four' players are you on about?  I can think of two........one of which came through our ranks.


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## gdunc79 (Sep 11, 2015)

c1973 said:



			I read it . :thup:

I would agree with what you say to a certain point, but I think you may have missed the point I was trying to make (not that it matters btw). 



I'm aiming my post directly at specific individuals who slate Rangers (in particular) and Celtic every time an opportunity arises (or is engineered, usually by them) to provide examples of players, from their supported clubs youth system, that have came through (apparently it has to be relatively recent and they have to be quality.....or was it decent, I can't keep up tbf) and went on to star for the Scottish national team. 

As I see it, their clubs must be doing a great job of bringing them through if they can single out other clubs for their inability.

They don't need to be playing for them, just been spotted, nurtured and come through their youth set up. It shouldn't be difficult to do. 


You see, I believe they are trolling but I'm perfectly happy to accept they are debating from a position of strength (knowledge at a stretch). 
A few examples (well, more than has been provided to disprove dft) would put my gas at a peep. 

Click to expand...

I think the points we are both making ARE related. How can we reel off Hearts and St Johnstone players who have starred for Scotland when the whole selection policy over the last 10-15 years has been to downright ignore any players playing outwith the Old Firm and England? Not Hearts & St Johnstone's fault that they don't have a list of past Scotland stars to list of as they will have had players during that time that were playing better than some of the journeymen who consistently got called up regardless of form (Kenny Miller springs to mind). Players like Mark Reynolds of Aberdeen who was outstanding for two seasons were never even called up to the squad - nevermind given a cap!!


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## Val (Sep 11, 2015)

gdunc79 said:



			Players like Mark Reynolds of Aberdeen who was outstanding for two seasons were never even called up to the squad - nevermind given a cap!!
		
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I've heard this a few times now, is it maybe more to the point that Mark Reynolds is/was no better than the players who held the jersey? 

2 years ago he would have had to displace Christophe Berra, Andy Webster and Charlie Mulgrew for a slot at centre back thats before the back up of Russell Martin and the clogger Grant Hanley who is incidently a better player than Reynolds.

TBH, he's been steady but no better than who we have currently


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## Hobbit (Sep 11, 2015)

This is turning into a brilliant thread. If the Scots are 'fighting' the English about how good England are, they're 'fighting' amongst themselves right down to what colour the corner flags should be - metaphorically speaking of course. Jeez guys, you'd start a fight in an empty room!


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## gdunc79 (Sep 11, 2015)

Val said:



			I've heard this a few times now, is it maybe more to the point that Mark Reynolds is/was no better than the players who held the jersey? 

2 years ago he would have had to displace Christophe Berra, Andy Webster and Charlie Mulgrew for a slot at centre back thats before the back up of Russell Martin and the clogger Grant Hanley who is incidently a better player than Reynolds.

TBH, he's been steady but no better than who we have currently
		
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My point is if Reynolds had moved on to Celtic or Hull (for example) during this period he would instantly have been in the Scotland squad which shows how ridiculous the selection policy is and why young players at "smaller" clubs rarely make it to the national team until they join a fashionable team. Reynolds is / was a far better player than Andy Webster. Charlie Mulgrew? meh.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 11, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			This is turning into a brilliant thread. If the Scots are 'fighting' the English about how good England are, they're 'fighting' amongst themselves right down to what colour the corner flags should be - metaphorically speaking of course. Jeez guys, you'd start a fight in an empty room!
		
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I'm amazed they've managed 126 posts discussing it!


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## ger147 (Sep 11, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			This is turning into a brilliant thread. If the Scots are 'fighting' the English about how good England are, they're 'fighting' amongst themselves right down to what colour the corner flags should be - metaphorically speaking of course. Jeez guys, you'd start a fight in an empty room!
		
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You are clearly not up to speed with how the Scotsman works. We are ALWAYS fighting/arguing about something, and the only thing that stops us arguiung with each other is when an Englishman turns up


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## Val (Sep 11, 2015)

gdunc79 said:



			Reynolds is / was a far better player than Andy Webster. Charlie Mulgrew? meh.
		
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He's not, if he was that good he wouldn't be with Aberdeen. If he was good enough he would be with Celtic or the likes of Hull.

I do get your point but the reality is better players play for better teams, teams in the championship in England are better than the bulk of the SPFL therefore players will move there.

The Scottish National squad consists of the best Scottish (qualified) players, the reality of that is the vast majority of the best players play in England because the quality of football and players tends to be better there.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 11, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			This is turning into a brilliant thread. If the Scots are 'fighting' the English about how good England are, they're 'fighting' amongst themselves right down to what colour the corner flags should be - metaphorically speaking of course. Jeez guys, you'd start a fight in an empty room!
		
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Aye but have you noticed how this thread has united Rangers and Celtic fans!? This could be a new-era in OF cooperation.... on the GM forum at least!


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## Val (Sep 11, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Aye but have you noticed how this thread has united Rangers and Celtic fans!? This could be a new-era in OF cooperation.... on the GM forum at least!
		
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What OF


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 11, 2015)

Val said:



			What OF 

Click to expand...

Normal service resumed....


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 11, 2015)

gdunc79 said:



			My point is if Reynolds had moved on to Celtic or Hull (for example) during this period he would instantly have been in the Scotland squad which shows how ridiculous the selection policy is and why young players at "smaller" clubs rarely make it to the national team until they join a fashionable team. Reynolds is / was a far better player than Andy Webster. Charlie Mulgrew? meh.
		
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Same point with Leigh Griffiths was a great player with Hibs but he was playing within a team at least a couple of stages behind him.
Moved to Celtic and became an 'automatic' Scotland squad player.
Still the same quality of player than at Hibs [IMO] just playing with a team of equal quality players.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 11, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Aye but have you noticed how this thread has united Rangers and Celtic fans!? This could be a new-era in OF cooperation.... on the GM forum at least!
		
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My role as a peace maker has not gone unnoticed.:lol:


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 11, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Same point with Leigh Griffiths was a great player with Hibs but he was playing within a team at least a couple of stages behind him.
Moved to Celtic and became an 'automatic' Scotland squad player.
Still the same quality of player than at Hibs [IMO] just playing with a team of equal quality players.
		
Click to expand...

I'd disagree with that. A decent player at Hibs but very inconsistent and with a terrible disciplinary record. I was very surprised Celtic went in for him and I didn't expect him to succeed there but he really seems to have turned it around and probably merits an international spot now.


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## gdunc79 (Sep 11, 2015)

Val said:



			He's not, if he was that good he wouldn't be with Aberdeen. If he was good enough he would be with Celtic or the likes of Hull.

I do get your point but the reality is better players play for better teams, teams in the championship in England are better than the bulk of the SPFL therefore players will move there.

The Scottish National squad consists of the best Scottish (qualified) players, the reality of that is the vast majority of the best players play in England because the quality of football and players tends to be better there.
		
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The SFA blinkered view in a nutshell. Are you Gordon Strachan in disguise?


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## gdunc79 (Sep 11, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			I'd disagree with that. A decent player at Hibs but very inconsistent and with a terrible disciplinary record. I was very surprised Celtic went in for him and I didn't expect him to succeed there but he really seems to have turned it around and probably merits an international spot now.
		
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He scored 31 goals in 66 appearances for a not great Hibs side. Not exactly inconsistent. A decent player, even when not playing at a "big" club.


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## Val (Sep 11, 2015)

gdunc79 said:



			The SFA blinkered view in a nutshell. Are you Gordon Strachan in disguise?
		
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No, im a realist.

Answer me how many good teams Aberdeen have managed to beat in their European adventures this last few years.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 11, 2015)

gdunc79 said:



			He scored 31 goals in 66 appearances for a not great Hibs side. Not exactly inconsistent. A decent player, even when not playing at a "big" club. 

Click to expand...

True enough!

Incidentally, it turns out that he was capped before he joined Celtic so maybe not such a great example for this particular debate!


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## c1973 (Sep 11, 2015)

Val said:



			He's not, if he was that good he wouldn't be with Aberdeen. If he was good enough he would be with Celtic or the likes of Hull.
*
I do get your point but the reality is better players play for better teams, teams in the championship in England are better than the bulk of the SPFL therefore players will move there.*

The Scottish National squad consists of the best Scottish (qualified) players, the reality of that is the vast majority of the best players play in England because the quality of football and players tends to be better there.
		
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This.


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## c1973 (Sep 11, 2015)

Val said:



			What OF 

Click to expand...

Also this!!


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## c1973 (Sep 11, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			I'd disagree with that. A decent player at Hibs but very inconsistent and with a terrible disciplinary record. I was very surprised Celtic went in for him and I didn't expect him to succeed there but he really seems to have turned it around and *probably merits an international spot now.[*/QUOTE]


Reluctantly this.
		
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## c1973 (Sep 11, 2015)

Thing is too, if Rangers and Celtic hadn't  snapped up the diddy teams better youth players over the years, then it's a fair assumption that these teams wouldn't be able to fund their vastly superior  (one would have to assume, given the derision of the aforementioned teams set up) youth systems. 

I hope these clubs continue to churn out top drawer players for the national team in the manner they've been doing.


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## gdunc79 (Sep 11, 2015)

Val said:



			No, im a realist.

Answer me how many good teams Aberdeen have managed to beat in their European adventures this last few years.
		
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Not sure what that has to do with it. Celtic haven't beaten many either....


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## gdunc79 (Sep 11, 2015)

c1973 said:



			I hope these clubs continue to churn out top drawer players for the national team in the manner they've been doing. 

Click to expand...

They may do but they will be ignored as we shall instead look to see if Watford's 30 year old centre half has a Scottish grandparent as he has kept a couple of clean sheets in a row and must be great as Watford play are in the all-conquering greatest league in the world.*

*purely made up example to illustrate the point


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## Val (Sep 11, 2015)

gdunc79 said:



			Not sure what that has to do with it. Celtic haven't beaten many either....
		
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My point being if Mark Reynolds is so good by definition his team should also be good. 

Incidently Mark Reynolds did get called up last year to the squad for a friendly, he didnt get a cap though which kind of tells its own story


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## c1973 (Sep 11, 2015)

gdunc79 said:



			They may do but they will be ignored as we shall instead look to see if Watford's 30 year old centre half has a Scottish grandparent as he has kept a couple of clean sheets in a row and must be great as Watford play are in the all-conquering greatest league in the world.*

*purely made up example to illustrate the point
		
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Well, I do agree about the grandparents rule being wrong tbf, parents and no further back for me.

May I enquire as to which team you support, or are a fan of?


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 11, 2015)

gdunc79 said:



			Not sure what that has to do with it. Celtic haven't beaten many either....
		
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....and the other answer is, at least Aberdeen qualified.:lol:


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## davidy233 (Sep 11, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			I'd disagree with that. A decent player at Hibs but very inconsistent and with a terrible disciplinary record. I was very surprised Celtic went in for him and I didn't expect him to succeed there but he really seems to have turned it around and probably merits an international spot now.
		
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Leigh's always been a player - his on field disciplinary record was never that bad either - can't keep it in his pants though


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## Val (Sep 11, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			....and the other answer is, at least Aberdeen qualified.:lol:
		
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For what?


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## NWJocko (Sep 11, 2015)

Val said:



			For what?
		
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Nowt!!

Beat a couple of pub teams then horsed out in about the 15th preliminary round of the Europa league by some giants of Kazakhstan...


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## Val (Sep 11, 2015)

NWJocko said:



			Nowt!!

Beat a couple of pub teams then horsed out in about the 15th preliminary round of the Europa league by some giants of Kazakhstan... 

Click to expand...

LOL, at least we have a sensible voice now 

How did Mark Reynolds play with the defence shipping 3 goals to the Euro giants of Kazakhstan?


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## Jacko_G (Sep 11, 2015)

Val said:



			LOL, at least we have a sensible voice now 

How did Mark Reynolds play with the defence shipping 3 goals to the Euro giants of Kazakhstan?
		
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He didn't.

He's out injured. Maybe check your facts.


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## Jacko_G (Sep 11, 2015)

Scotland are pathetic have been for many a year however GS refusal to see past players who are clearly past it and offer nothing is very frustrating. When was the last time Steven Fletcher actually had a decent game in a Scotland jersey? I might be wrong but I think he's scored four international goals including his hat-trick against the mighty Gibraltar. 

Alan Hutton is just an absolute bombscare of a player. Chris Martin Hanley/Mulgrew are potentially the worst centre half pairing I've ever witnessed in Scotland jerseys. That includes Caldwell. Absolutely horrendous players.


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## NWJocko (Sep 11, 2015)

Val said:



			LOL, at least we have a sensible voice now 

How did Mark Reynolds play with the defence shipping 3 goals to the Euro giants of Kazakhstan?
		
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Aye he's not playing just now.

He'd do as good a job as the ones that are in there just now but think his chance has gone as WGS seems pretty settled on that cart horse Hanley!

Not surprising most of the Scottish players come from Celtic (formerly Rangers also) or English teams as, typically, players who are good enough will move to Crltic or the Championship as it's a step up.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 11, 2015)

NWJocko said:



			Not surprising most of the Scottish players come from Celtic (formerly Rangers also) or English teams as, typically, players who are good enough will move to Crltic or the Championship as it's a step up.
		
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I also think the phenomenon of players signing for one of these clubs and then getting the Scotland call is pretty understandable too. They don't get capped or signed by a bigger club while they are developing but once they reach a certain standard the international call up happens and the big clubs come in. The two aren't necessarily related.


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## Jacko_G (Sep 11, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			I also think the phenomenon of players signing for one of these clubs and then getting the Scotland call is pretty understandable too. They don't get capped or signed by a bigger club while they are developing but once they reach a certain standard the international call up happens and the big clubs come in. The two aren't necessarily related.
		
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Yes I agree because GMS has obviously improved no end at Celtic as has Armstrong. It's not like they were just as good at Dundee United. Nonsense post.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 11, 2015)

Jacko_G said:



			Yes I agree because GMS has obviously improved no end at Celtic as has Armstrong. It's not like they were just as good at Dundee United. Nonsense post.
		
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Think you misunderstood, never mind! :cheers:


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 11, 2015)

One of the good things about the demise of The Rangers and to a lesser extent Hearts is that the well used 'Diddy Teams' expression took a back seat for a while. Sad, but no surprise, to hear this arrogant term making a comeback.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 11, 2015)

I'll try to explain, and I'll use the GMS/Armstrong players as an example.

Going back a few years, they weren't yet good enough to play for Scotland and neither were they good enough to sign for a big club. But as they gained experience and improved they were both called up for Scotland (while they were at Dundee Utd, incidentally). That improvement also attracted the interest of a bigger club who signed them.

The international call up and joining a bigger club are not directly related. They coincidentally happened within a couple of years. In this case they got the call up before joining Celtic, other players might move club before the international call up happens.


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## c1973 (Sep 11, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			One of the good things about the demise of The Rangers and to a lesser extent Hearts is that the well used 'Diddy Teams' expression took a back seat for a while. Sad, but no surprise, to hear this arrogant term making a comeback.
		
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Not sure how gdunc feels about that.  

I personally couldn't give a monkeys.......if the cap fits. 
Pretty sure the phrase never took a back seat either, it certainly didn't with me. Hearts (for example), having won nothing of much consequence are, were and most likely always will be a diddy team in my book. 

And it's certainly not arrogant.......more a matter of fact if you ask me.


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## c1973 (Sep 11, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			I'll try to explain, and I'll use the GMS/Armstrong players as an example.

Going back a few years, they weren't yet good enough to play for Scotland and neither were they good enough to sign for a big club. But as they gained experience and improved they were both called up for Scotland (while they were at Dundee Utd, incidentally). That improvement also attracted the interest of a bigger club who signed them.

The international call up and joining a bigger club are not directly related. They coincidentally happened within a couple of years. *In this case they got the call up before joining Celtic*, other players might move club before the international call up happens.
		
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Never let the facts get in the way of 'diddy teams' supporters spleen when it is being vented though.    :thup:


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 11, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			One of the good things about the demise of The Rangers and to a lesser extent Hearts is that the well used 'Diddy Teams' expression took a back seat for a while. Sad, but no surprise, to hear this arrogant term making a comeback.
		
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I know it's a real affront using a term like that when fans of other clubs always talk so respectfully about the OF.


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## Farneyman (Sep 11, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Well, I do agree about the grandparents rule being wrong tbf, parents and no further back for me.

May I enquire as to which team you support, or are a fan of?
		
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Surely you should have asked what school he went to first before going for the jugular


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## Val (Sep 11, 2015)

Jacko_G said:



			He didn't.

He's out injured. Maybe check your facts.
		
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I had no facts to check, I asked a question.

It's not hard really when you read things properly.


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## gdunc79 (Sep 12, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Not sure how gdunc feels about that.  

I personally couldn't give a monkeys.......if the cap fits. 
Pretty sure the phrase never took a back seat either, it certainly didn't with me. Hearts (for example), having won nothing of much consequence are, were and most likely always will be a diddy team in my book. 

And it's certainly not arrogant.......more a matter of fact if you ask me. 



Click to expand...

I agree with Doon. Things will soon be back to the way they once were in Scottish football but it has been great being able to turn the diddy team tag on its head towards 50% of west coasters for the last few years.

To answer a previous post, I am a St Johnstone fan, born in Perth now living in Hamilton.

I still disagree that the moment somebody signs for Celtic or a lower league English team means that they have automatically reached a required standard for international football.


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## Val (Sep 12, 2015)

gdunc79 said:



			I still disagree that the moment somebody signs for Celtic or a lower league English team means that they have automatically reached a required standard for international football.
		
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You are the only one that suggested that


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## c1973 (Sep 12, 2015)

gdunc79 said:



			I agree with Doon. Things will soon be back to the way they once were in Scottish football but _*it has been great being able to turn the diddy team tag on its head towards 50% of west coasters for the last few years.
*_
To answer a previous post, I am a St Johnstone fan, born in Perth now living in Hamilton.

I still disagree that the moment somebody signs for Celtic or a lower league English team means that they have automatically reached a required standard for international football.
		
Click to expand...


Would that be the same diddy team that put the Premier League (yer having a laugh) team St Johnstone out the cup last season? 




So, would I be correct to assume that it was ok to call the successful, mighty, world famous Glasgow Rangers a wee diddy team for a few years, but it's now arrogant and sad when the fans of the aforementioned highly decorated (more trophies than any other) club use the term to refer to less successful clubs of a lower standing (in terms of trophies won and international players produced)?


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## Jacko_G (Sep 12, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Would that be the same diddy team that put the Premier League (yer having a laugh) team St Johnstone out the cup last season? 




So, would I be correct to assume that it was ok to call the successful, mighty, world famous Glasgow Rangers a wee diddy team for a few years, but it's now arrogant and sad when the fans of the aforementioned highly decorated (more trophies than any other) club use the term to refer to less successful clubs of a lower standing (in terms of trophies won and international players produced)? 



Click to expand...

Mmmmmmm. 

If we really want to go down the history route I fear it'll get very messy.


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## c1973 (Sep 12, 2015)

Jacko_G said:



			Mmmmmmm. 

If we really want to go down the history route I fear it'll get very messy.
		
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Not at all,not at all.  

We're proud of our (FIFA and UEFA and legally acknowledged) intact, long standing club history.  :thup: 

An illustrious history of winning trophies............and producing international class players for the national team (well, somebody has to, don't they).


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 12, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Not at all,not at all.  

We're proud of our (FIFA and UEFA and legally acknowledged) intact, long standing club history.  :thup: 

An illustrious history of winning trophies............and producing international class players for the national team (well, somebody has to, don't they). 

Click to expand...

Glad you put a smiley at the end of that as some on here don't get irony. [Inc me occasionally]

A proper Thud and Blunder game at ICT last night, apart from the effort and passion it was not a great advert for our game.


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## Farneyman (Sep 12, 2015)

gdunc79 said:



			To answer a previous post, I am a St Johnstone fan, born in Perth now living in Hamilton.

.
		
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Aye but who do you really support between Celtic and Rangers? :whoo:

The amount of times I was asked that in the WoS when I first arrived was unbelievable after I told folk I was a Man U fan. Most couldn't understand how I didn't support either of them, OF teams.

Main reason was it was a Diddy league.


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## Jacko_G (Sep 12, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Glad you put a smiley at the end of that as some on here don't get irony. [Inc me occasionally]

A proper Thud and Blunder game at ICT last night, apart from the effort and passion it was not a great advert for our game.
		
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When is there ever a game that is a great advert for Scottish football? Plenty of carthorses at every club in Scotland. Referees are just more lenient towards certain teams.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 12, 2015)

Of course as time goes on the New OF will simply state that their own inadequacies in Europe are down to the inadequacies of Scottish football - as exemplified by the performance of the Scotland team and the relatively poor standard of Scottish football.  And so these two clubs and many of their supporters will (in the normal and historic superior way) dismiss the Scottish international football team and the rest of Scottish football as a waste of space - and seek pastures new - pastures that they and the clubs deserve.  More's the pity that the New OF are both relatively pretty dross as well, and no one else will have them.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 12, 2015)

gdunc79 said:



			I agree with Doon. Things will soon be back to the way they once were in Scottish football but it has been great being able to turn the diddy team tag on its head towards 50% of west coasters for the last few years.

To answer a previous post, I am a St Johnstone fan, born in Perth now living in Hamilton.

I still disagree that the moment somebody signs for Celtic or a lower league English team means that they have automatically reached a required standard for international football.
		
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Hi @gdun79 - good to come across another currently suffering Saintee on the boards.  But we had a great day at the Cup Final year past May :whoo: :whoo: :whoo: as we did


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## NWJocko (Sep 12, 2015)

NWJocko said:



			Nowt!!

Beat a couple of pub teams then horsed out in about the 15th preliminary round of the Europa league by some giants of Kazakhstan... 

Click to expand...

Kept our 100% record in the league today though eh Val 

:whoo: :whoo: :whoo: :whoo: :whoo:


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 12, 2015)

Good result for the Dons, keeps us Jambos looking like ':lol:contenders'


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## c1973 (Sep 12, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Of course as time goes on the New OF will simply state that their own inadequacies in Europe are down to the inadequacies of Scottish football - as exemplified by the performance of the Scotland team and the relatively poor standard of Scottish football.  And so these two clubs and many of their supporters will (in the normal and historic superior way) dismiss the Scottish international football team and the rest of Scottish football as a waste of space - and seek pastures new - pastures that they and the clubs deserve.  More's the pity that the New OF are both relatively pretty dross as well, and no one else will have them.
		
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New OF? 

What are you wittering on about now? 

Inadequacies in Europe?  How many European finals have St Johnstone contested? I'll give you a clue, an acronym as we all know you like to use/make them up;  the clue is SFA......and it's got nowt to do with football associations. 

Edit:  And I'd say historically we've been quite entitled to berate the national team............it's usually our own players after all.


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## c1973 (Sep 12, 2015)

NWJocko said:



			Kept our 100% record in the league today though eh Val 

:whoo: :whoo: :whoo: :whoo: :whoo:
		
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In fairness, that mob aren't much better than a pub team.


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## Val (Sep 12, 2015)

NWJocko said:



			Kept our 100% record in the league today though eh Val 

:whoo: :whoo: :whoo: :whoo: :whoo:
		
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Never seen it bud but by all accounts you were good for it


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 12, 2015)

ManUtd vs L'Pool - ooofff - grim.  So much for the best league in the world.


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## NWJocko (Sep 12, 2015)

Val said:



			Never seen it bud but by all accounts you were good for it
		
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Yep, might aswell enjoy McInnes while we've got him as can't see him hanging around too long. 

1st half was yours but 2nd we were pretty good even with 10 men.


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## NWJocko (Sep 12, 2015)

c1973 said:



			In fairness, that mob aren't much better than a pub team.   

Click to expand...

Neither are we but I'll take it 

Your bunch will be back in the top league next year so probably back to 3rd being as good as we can do rather than 2nd.....


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 13, 2015)

Nice wee proper hatrick [left, right and header] against Chelsea by the Scotland reserve player


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 13, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			ManUtd vs L'Pool - ooofff - grim.  So much for the best league in the world.
		
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Much better 2nd half - two cracking at least


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 13, 2015)

NWJocko said:



			Yep, might aswell enjoy McInnes while we've got him as can't see him hanging around too long. 

1st half was yours but 2nd we were pretty good even with 10 men.
		
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But McInnes has already had a go in England - going to Bristol City after Saints - so clubs down south are going to be wary of judging him by success at Aberdeen.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 13, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			But McInnes has already had a go in England - going to Bristol City after Saints - so clubs down south are going to be wary of judging him by success at Aberdeen.
		
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I thought he would have done really well at Bristol City....seemed like a perfect match.
The big recent surprise for me with managers was Yogi at ICT.
Shows you what I knowoo:


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 13, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I thought he would have done really well at Bristol City....seemed like a perfect match.
The big recent surprise for me with managers was Yogi at ICT.
Shows you what I knowoo:
		
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In my mind there is only one John 'Yogi' Hughes - and he doesn't manage ICT.  Find it curious that he's attracted that nickname given the much more illustrious original.  Maybe that's why...


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 16, 2015)

Another win for the Dandy Dons.
Seven wins on the trot, unbeaten in the league this season and five points up on Celtic.
Are you getting excited up there?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 16, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Another win for the Dandy Dons.
Seven wins on the trot, unbeaten in the league this season and five points up on Celtic.
Are you getting excited up there?
		
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It's good - they had a  full house against Celtic for a midday televised kick-off.  Over 20,000.  Mys Dons supporting cousins *will *be pleased (as will my bluenose of a brother  )


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## NWJocko (Sep 16, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Another win for the Dandy Dons.
Seven wins on the trot, unbeaten in the league this season and five points up on Celtic.
Are you getting excited up there?
		
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Not really!

Great start but pretty unlikely we'll be able to keep up with Celtic over a whole season.

We were top in about Jan/Feb last year and lost the league by about 12 points in the end.

Still, nice to have a decent team and good manager, god knows we've had some utter dross over the last 20 or so years!!


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 16, 2015)

NWJocko said:



			Not really!

Great start but pretty unlikely we'll be able to keep up with Celtic over a whole season.

We were top in about Jan/Feb last year and lost the league by about 12 points in the end.

Still, nice to have a decent team and good manager, god knows we've had some utter dross over the last 20 or so years!!
		
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I have a feeling in my water that Paul Lambert will be managing Celtic before Christmas.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 16, 2015)

As this seems to have become the Scottish a football thread this seems a good place to post this 

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...rs-receive-letter-over-their-personal-hygiene

:rofl:


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## c1973 (Sep 16, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As this seems to have become the Scottish a football thread this seems a good place to post this 

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...rs-receive-letter-over-their-personal-hygiene

:rofl:
		
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:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Oh thank you Phil, thank you ever so much.  I've just had a right wee chuckle at that.

:rofl::rofl:

"It remains unclear how many fans have received a letter".    I'll hazard a guess at twenty or thirty....................thousand!  :rofl:

Always new the nickname of the mhanky* mob was accurate. :rofl:




* mhanky - manky - unclean and smelly.    

:rofl:


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 16, 2015)

c1973 said:



			:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Oh thank you Phil, thank you ever so much.  I've just had a right wee chuckle at that.

:rofl::rofl:

"It remains unclear how many fans have received a letter".    I'll hazard a guess at twenty or thirty....................thousand!  :rofl:

Always new the nickname of the mhanky* mob was accurate. :rofl:




* mhanky - manky - unclean and smelly.    

:rofl:
		
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And my G*d - if you ever stood in 'the Jungle' back in the day - then you know what that's all about.


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## c1973 (Sep 16, 2015)




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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 17, 2015)

c1973 said:



View attachment 16852

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hahaha - maybe why my brother changed from a Celtic supporter to a Bluenose as he used to stand in the jungle.  

Though I was with him in Parkhead the day he converted - Mark Walters first OF game - Jan 2nd 1987.  At half time we'd had enough of the banana chucking and monkey chants and costumes - so we asked a copper if we could move to the Rangers end.  And so the two of us were escorted from one end of Parkhead to the other.  Unusual I'd guess.


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## davidy233 (Sep 17, 2015)

Might stage a mildly humorous photo or two when I'm working at Celtic Park after than


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 17, 2015)

So the green and grey hoops is not a myth. :lol:

Makes you wonder about the aroma on the long journerys aboard supporters bus.


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## c1973 (Sep 17, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			hahaha - maybe why my brother changed from a Celtic supporter to a Bluenose as he used to stand in the jungle.  

Though I was with him in Parkhead the day he converted - Mark Walters first OF game - Jan 2nd 1987.  At half time we'd had enough of the banana chucking and monkey chants and costumes - so we asked a copper if we could move to the Rangers end.  And so the two of us were escorted from one end of Parkhead to the other.  Unusual I'd guess.
		
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I'd say.

So yer brother converted when we started winning  everything? 

I loved the Jungle (when we were in it, not them). Great atmosphere. Absolute midden of a place, but a great atmosphere.


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## c1973 (Sep 17, 2015)

davidy233 said:



			Might stage a mildly humorous photo or two when I'm working at Celtic Park after than
		
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Oh please do. Pretty pretty please.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 17, 2015)

c1973 said:



			I'd say.

So yer brother converted when we started winning  everything? 

I loved the Jungle (when we were in it, not them). Great atmosphere. Absolute midden of a place, but a great atmosphere.
		
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It was a midden - and it was a great atmosphere - pretty mental actually.

I'll have to ask him if he *really* supported the 'tic, or whether it was just cos he delivered Desmond White's newspapers in the morning and could get us tickets for all the big Celtic and Scotland games...


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## c1973 (Sep 17, 2015)

Maybe they could make good use of Ajax when at Celtic park?  Maybe give the faithful a good scouring?  :rofl: :rofl:


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 17, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Maybe they could make good use of Ajax when at Celtic park?  Maybe give the faithful a good scouring?  :rofl: :rofl:



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I wouldn't crow too much - apparently The Big Hoose is getting rather dilapidated as there has been little or no money for upkeep over the last three years.  Anyway - I shall report as I am planning to be in The Big Hoose next Tuesday evening.


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## c1973 (Sep 17, 2015)

Oh it needs looking at, for sure. But that shall not detract me from crowing about the great unwashed over the city.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 17, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Oh it needs looking at, for sure. But that shall not detract me from crowing about the great unwashed over the city. 



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Absolutely your prerogative as one of the 'others'.  Always thought it a bit sneaky that they built Paradump just that bit too large for Ibroke to get up to the same capacity.  Note how - being of neither persuasion - I am fair in my handing out of plaudits for the two grounds.


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## c1973 (Sep 17, 2015)

a wee word of advice if you are attending the best UEFA rated ground in Scotland on Tuesday.  Try not to let some of your daft comments slip out your mouth, like Ibroke (shakes head in despair smiley), or The Rangers (said mockingly).    

Some of those Bears are pretty dangerous and not as tolerant to dafties as you'd hope. :thup:


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 17, 2015)

One up to the green and greys in Amsterdam.


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## GreiginFife (Sep 17, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			One up to the green and greys in Amsterdam.
		
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Lasted long...


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 17, 2015)

c1973 said:



			a wee word of advice if you are attending the best UEFA rated ground in Scotland on Tuesday.  Try not to let some of your daft comments slip out your mouth, like Ibroke (shakes head in despair smiley), or The Rangers (said mockingly).    

Some of those Bears are pretty dangerous and not as tolerant to dafties as you'd hope. :thup:
		
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Oh I know.  And I'm sure you know referring to Ibrox as I did is only a friendly josh


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## c1973 (Sep 17, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Oh I know.  And I'm sure you know referring to Ibrox as I did is only a friendly josh 

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I sometimes wonder, but I'll take your word on it.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 18, 2015)

c1973 said:



			I sometimes wonder, but I'll take your word on it. 

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It is.  If we supporters of smaller clubs (smaller not diddy please) did not have the OF to complain about then life would be a bit miserable.  And the problems that Rangers have had have been 'manna from heaven' (I've got to be careful with my biblical quotations these days) for us.  But actually I think we've just about had our fun and we must move on - so let's have Rangers back in the SPL and helping improve the standard of Scottish football.

(note - the above not written tongue in cheek  - honest  )


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 18, 2015)

One of my neighbours is a right bluenose.
Smashing guy and his comments throughout the last few years have always been insightful.
A million miles away from some of the stuff you see and hear from many fans.

He is so pleased that they have finally reached a decent standard on the pitch.
Warburton seems a decent manager and hopefully they can retain his services for a few years whilst they try to re establish themselves at the top level.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 18, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			One of my neighbours is a right bluenose.
Smashing guy and his comments throughout the last few years have always been insightful.
A million miles away from some of the stuff you see and hear from many fans.

He is so pleased that they have finally reached a decent standard on the pitch.
Warburton seems a decent manager and hopefully they can retain his services for a few years whilst they try to re establish themselves at the top level.
		
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Yup - despite myself I can agree with that sentiment.


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## c1973 (Sep 18, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			It is.  If we supporters of smaller clubs (smaller not diddy please) did not have the OF to complain about then life would be a bit miserable.  And the problems that Rangers have had have been 'manna from heaven' (I've got to be careful with my biblical quotations these days) for us.  But actually I think we've just about had our fun and we must move on - so let's have Rangers back in the SPL and helping improve the standard of Scottish football.

(note - the above not written tongue in cheek  - honest  )
		
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Aye. Move on is it? Eh?  
Nah. Not before we've dished out a wee bit of verbal retribution (to aw the wee diddy teams) first methinks. 


Hopefully we'll be up this year. Always felt an extra season in the championship would not necessarily be a bad thing football wise for us (granted, not financially) looking like it has been.  Mr Warburton seems to know a player when he sees one.

Although, I did also feel we would have gone up last year.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 18, 2015)

c1973;1366421 
Although said:
			
		


			Yea, what was it again, 3rd place and 24 points behind the Jambos.

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## NWJocko (Sep 18, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Aye. Move on is it? Eh?  
Nah. Not before we've dished out a wee bit of verbal retribution (to aw the wee diddy teams) first methinks. 


Hopefully we'll be up this year. Always felt an extra season in the championship would not necessarily be a bad thing football wise for us (granted, not financially) looking like it has been.  Mr Warburton seems to know a player when he sees one.

Although, I did also feel we would have gone up last year.
		
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Are you not one of the diddy teams now.... 

Warburton certainly seems to be a very good appointment.

Unfortunately


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## c1973 (Sep 18, 2015)

NWJocko said:



*Are you not one of the diddy teams now.... 
*
Warburton certainly seems to be a very good appointment.

Unfortunately 

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No, no, no, no, nooooo. 


Yeah. I like the attitude he seems to have instilled at the club as much as the style of football......players reading the riot act to themselves cos they should have taken more chances and won by more.....I'm liking that. :thup:

Early days, but so far he does look to be a really good appointment. 
At the moment I reckon we'd be a pretty tough draw for most teams in Scotland.


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## NWJocko (Sep 18, 2015)

c1973 said:



			No, no, no, no, nooooo. 


Yeah. I like the attitude he seems to have instilled at the club as much as the style of football......players reading the riot act to themselves cos they should have taken more chances and won by more.....I'm liking that. :thup:

Early days, but so far he does look to be a really good appointment. 
At the moment I reckon we'd be a pretty tough draw for most teams in Scotland.
		
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Bit of a weird one Brentford getting rid after the job he did there. From what I read and hear from mates who, for their siins , are Rangers fans he has been very impressive in his attitude/approach as much as anything like you say.

You must hÃ ve the 2nd highest budget in Scotland don't you so I wouldn't be surprised to see you win a cup really.

Make the most of this season and hope we finish second before you get back in.


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## c1973 (Sep 18, 2015)

NWJocko said:



			Bit of a weird one Brentford getting rid after the job he did there. From what I read and hear from mates who, for their siins , are Rangers fans he has been very impressive in his attitude/approach as much as anything like you say.

You must hÃ ve the 2nd highest budget in Scotland don't you so I wouldn't be surprised to see you win a cup really.

Make the most of this season and hope we finish second before you get back in.
		
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Probably is the second highest, but we only spent around Â£600,000 on new players. Looking like they'll have decent resale value, which is gonna be the way it is from now on I'd think. 



In other news, the offending smelly Celtic fans appear to have been identified. 




A wee poll for fans of Scottish football.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/celtic-write-fans-reminding-wash-6451792

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...ttp://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php&_rdr


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## c1973 (Sep 18, 2015)

From an Ajax fans Twitter account after smeltics (decent result tbf) midweek game.

Nearly choked on my wine n nibbles.:rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 19, 2015)

Less than 2000 watched the Rangers game at Dumbarton.
Disappointing away travelling support for a game just down the road and across the bridge from Govan.


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## c1973 (Sep 19, 2015)

Dumbarton play their home games at The Cheaper Insurance Direct Stadium (commonly referred to as "The Rock" by Supporters). *The 2,020[1] all seated stadium* has been used since 2 December 2000. 

Sheesh! 

There are Eskimos and Amazonian tribes that have a better grasp on Scottish football than some of the natives!


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## ger147 (Sep 19, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Less than 2000 watched the Rangers game at Dumbarton.
Disappointing away travelling support for a game just down the road and across the bridge from Govan.
		
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How much less than 2,000? Capacity at Dumbarton is 2,020.


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## c1973 (Sep 19, 2015)

ger147 said:



			How much less than 2,000? Capacity at Dumbarton is 2,020.
		
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1,978 crowd (BBC) 

So, what, 42 below capacity?  

I doubt some Sons never snapped up a brief.  Must have been smeltic Dumbarton fans. 


Edit: Highest attendance they've had at that stadium I believe.......... Hearts must not have sold out last season.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 19, 2015)

Oops looks like my knowledge of the 'smaller' clubs has caught me out.


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## c1973 (Sep 19, 2015)

Yep, Dumbarton are certainly a smaller club than Hearts, having only won the big league twice compared to the whopping four times Hearts have managed it (I believe), I'll give ye that. :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 19, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Oops looks like my *lack of knowledge * has caught me out.

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Fixed


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## ger147 (Sep 22, 2015)

Diddy team doing OK tonight, Saints now 3-0 up


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## williamalex1 (Sep 22, 2015)

ger147 said:



			Diddy team doing OK tonight, Saints now 3-0 up 

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Rangers next manager could be Ken Dodd :rofl:


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## c1973 (Sep 22, 2015)

Good result for St Johnstone. Took their chances well. Defended their lead well in the second half. 

Good exercise for our young lads, a wee taste of defeat in the cup will test the younger players character. A bit out of sorts in spells, certainly not at our best tonight and definitely not the finished article; as Mr Warburton has indicated, we are maybe 3 or 4 better quality players short at the moment. 

A bit disappointed not to get a penalty for the handball toward the end, we were pounding them and I think that would have shattered St Johnstone and seen a collapse, not to be though. 

Encouraging signs in places but now back to the main target, promotion.


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## Farneyman (Sep 22, 2015)

The gers fans will be a bit quieter tonight after the internet was awash recently with smelly Celtic fan jokes. :cheers:


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## c1973 (Sep 22, 2015)

Farneyman said:



			The gers fans will be a bit quieter tonight after the internet was awash recently with smelly Celtic fan jokes. :cheers:
		
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Aye? 

(Clothes peg on nose smiley)


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## gdunc79 (Sep 23, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Good result for St Johnstone. Took their chances well. Defended their lead well in the second half. 

Good exercise for our young lads, a wee taste of defeat in the cup will test the younger players character. A bit out of sorts in spells, certainly not at our best tonight and definitely not the finished article; as Mr Warburton has indicated, we are maybe 3 or 4 better quality players short at the moment. 

A bit disappointed not to get a penalty for the handball toward the end, we were pounding them and I think that would have shattered St Johnstone and seen a collapse, not to be though. 

Encouraging signs in places but now back to the main target, promotion.
		
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Ha ha....so good. :rofl:


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 23, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Good result for St Johnstone. Took their chances well. Defended their lead well in the second half. 

Good exercise for our young lads, a wee taste of defeat in the cup will test the younger players character. A bit out of sorts in spells, certainly not at our best tonight and definitely not the finished article; as Mr Warburton has indicated, we are maybe 3 or 4 better quality players short at the moment. 

A bit disappointed not to get a penalty for the handball toward the end, we were pounding them and I think that would have shattered St Johnstone and seen a collapse, not to be though. 

Encouraging signs in places but now back to the main target, promotion.
		
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Always good to get these piddling little cups out of your hair isn't.  Really just no more than nuisance value 

And I don't actually think a 2nd goal for Rangers would have precipitated a Saints collapse - but who knows as the 2nd goal didn't come about.


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## gdunc79 (Sep 23, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Hi @gdun79 - good to come across another currently suffering Saintee on the boards.  But we had a great day at the Cup Final year past May :whoo: :whoo: :whoo: as we did 

Click to expand...

Sorry - meant to respond to this but forgot. Good to find another golf mad Saints fan on here. Although we are not suffering too badly today 

Do you make it back up to McD much? Trying to keep my 7 year old boy on the straight and narrow and support Saints (last nights live coverage helped as did going to see the 4-1 demolition of Hamilton a couple of weeks back) but hard to do when he was born in Wishaw, stays in Hamilton and has a number of Celtic supporting friends. Will try my best though! Thankfully, like the rest of us, he is not bothered about Rangers


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 23, 2015)

gdunc79 said:



			Sorry - meant to respond to this but forgot. Good to find another golf mad Saints fan on here. Although we are not suffering too badly today 

Do you make it back up to McD much? Trying to keep my 7 year old boy on the straight and narrow and support Saints (last nights live coverage helped as did going to see the 4-1 demolition of Hamilton a couple of weeks back) but hard to do when he was born in Wishaw, stays in Hamilton and has a number of Celtic supporting friends. Will try my best though! Thankfully, like the rest of us, he is not bothered about Rangers 

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I was brought up in Glasgow and when little lived right beside Hampden.  But my mum is a Saintee (I took her to the Cup Final Last year  ) and she showed me the path.  Was tough at times being one of two Saintees in Secondary School mind - surrounded by the followers of those two teams of the dark side.  Don't get to McD much at all but my (23yr old) lad was brought up proper and knows between right and wrong and so he's one of us (as well as Arsenal)


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## gdunc79 (Sep 24, 2015)

Well done to both of you then for keeping the faith all these years!!

A bad night for Aberdeen last night but can't win every game I suppose and lets them concentrate on the league. Interesting to see how they bounce back from that unexpected defeat.


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## Three (Oct 8, 2015)

williamalex1 said:



			What odds are you prepared to give on Scotland getting a win or draw ? :smirk:
		
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None! 
1-0 down already, Poland are great going forward, think they'll score at least 3.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 8, 2015)

Three said:



			None! 
1-0 down already, Poland are great going forward, think they'll score at least 3.
		
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Some finish by Lewandowski. Certainly knows where the goal is right now


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## c1973 (Oct 8, 2015)

4/1 Poland half time / full time.


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## Three (Oct 8, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Some finish by Lewandowski. Certainly knows where the goal is right now
		
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Klopp signed him for Dortmund  from Poznan for Â£3million.   Wonder if they want to join up again...?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 8, 2015)

Three said:



			Klopp signed him for Dortmund  from Poznan for Â£3million.   Wonder if they want to join up again...?
		
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Very much doubt he will leave Bayern


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 8, 2015)

Three said:



			Klopp signed him for Dortmund  from Poznan for Â£3million.   Wonder if they want to join up again...?
		
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I doubt it. Bayern win things!


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## williamalex1 (Oct 8, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I doubt it. Bayern win things!
		
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Back to Scotland v Poland 2-1 so far ::whoo:


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 8, 2015)

Bit of a back against the wall passage. They need to get a foot on the ball for a bit


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 8, 2015)

c1973 said:



			4/1 Poland half time / full time.
		
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Are you a telegraph soccerball pundit in disguise?


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## Farneyman (Oct 8, 2015)

Ireland 1 Germany 0


Easy Easy Easy!


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## bladeplayer (Oct 8, 2015)

Ole Ole ole , ole , ole 

Scotland let us down darn it


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