# Man U



## drawboy (Jan 23, 2014)

jose morinho has stated that if Chelsea do not win anything this year he will walk. If hiwever Man U win something this year Staphen Hawkins will walk.


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## pbrown7582 (Jan 23, 2014)

Man U????    I assume you mean Manchester united?


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## drawboy (Jan 23, 2014)

I am from Leeds, count yourself lucky I wrote Man U!


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## pbrown7582 (Jan 23, 2014)

Is it Wednesday the 6th today?


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## bobmac (Jan 23, 2014)




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## One Planer (Jan 23, 2014)

Just shows how many of the United squad were playing for the manager and not the club eh?

As for Mourinho.

The guys a clown at the best of times. Me, Me, Me, I, I, I. Having said that, it keeps the pressure of his players so it's not all bad.


Still don't think they'll win anything this year. Especially now they've 'sold' Mata.


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## Hacker Khan (Jan 23, 2014)

Think it shows how far Man U have fallen if they are having to pay north of 35 million and way over the odds for a  player that can't get into the Chelsea team.  Smacks a bit of panic buying to me.


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## pbrown7582 (Jan 23, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Think it shows how far Man U have fallen if they are having to pay north of 35 million and way over the odds for a  player that can't get into the Chelsea team.  Smacks a bit of panic buying to me.
		
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another one too! after foulenni in the summer.


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## Fish (Jan 23, 2014)

Gareth said:



			Still don't think they'll win anything this year. Especially now they've 'sold' Mata.
		
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That statement has no substance as he (Mata) has played very little this season and we are........well in contention, so..... 

Yes Mata is a quality player but he doesn't do what Jose wants as a team player, he rarely tracks back to become the first defensive tackler, if something doesn't work for him, or he loses the ball, he stops! 

I think if we finish in the top 3 with the automatic qualification to Europe secured and he has moulded his team ready for next seasons assault, then he'll be satisfied and then, and only then, will there be no excuses as its his team then.


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## Crazyface (Jan 23, 2014)

We seem to have gone off track here. 

Manure is the correct spelling, and isn't it all just pigggin' brilliant !!!! Just when you think it can't get any better....IT DOES !!!!!!! It's the next best thing to winning the lottery.


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## Fish (Jan 23, 2014)

Crazyface said:



			We seem to have gone off track here. 

Manure is the correct spelling, and isn't it all just pigggin' brilliant !!!! Just when you think it can't get any better....IT DOES !!!!!!! It's the next best thing to winning the lottery.
		
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:rofl:

I thought the stats were brilliant, 2 shots on target and 1 goal from 5 in a penalty shoot out :whoo:


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## bobmac (Jan 23, 2014)

Fish said:



			:rofl:

I thought the stats were brilliant, 2 shots on target and 1 goal from 5 in a penalty shoot out :whoo:
		
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The 3 who failed to hit their target should be sacked, just like in real life. :angry:
Â£100,000s a week and they cant hit a box 24'x8'
Over paid, under-achieving, imported cheats that the fans have to pay a fortune to watch fall over
:rant:

Who won by the way?


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## fundy (Jan 23, 2014)

I hear Rooneys been told he wont be allowed to leave United for one of their main competitors, so thats ruled out Southampton and Norwich


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## One Planer (Jan 23, 2014)

fundy said:



			I hear Rooneys been told he wont be allowed to leave United for one of their main competitors, so thats ruled out Southampton and Norwich 

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:rofl:


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## In_The_Rough (Jan 23, 2014)

Must have been a long drive home back to London for the UTD fans last night


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## MarkA (Jan 23, 2014)

Yawn - all the same old stuff being trotted out!
Being a United Fan is crap at the moment but at least we get to see how the rest of you have been feeling!


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## pbrown7582 (Jan 23, 2014)

MarkA said:



			Yawn - all the same old stuff being trotted out!
Being a United Fan is crap at the moment but at least we get to see how the rest of you have been feeling!
		
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:clap::clap:


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## In_The_Rough (Jan 23, 2014)

The great thing about supporting a small club is you know you are Crap and are always going to be Crap with the odd red letter day thrown in. With Utd they have got used to being top dog for so long that now they are on the slippery slope down they cannot take it and turn all bitter and twisted and their bunch of glory hunting groups will strangely enough disappear for a while. Not aimed at you matey by the way but this is why so many people revel in their current plight.


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## Wildrover (Jan 23, 2014)

If it gets any worse all the ManUre fans will have to start going to another local ground to watch their football, like Brentford or Torquay.


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## cookelad (Jan 23, 2014)

If it continues it'll be a reverse of what we've seen in recent years with the blue side of Manchester the true supporters will continue to be exactly that the rest will disappear into the holes recently vacated by those citeh fans who couldn't give a toss prior to Sheik An Vac's billions arriving on the scene!


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## Tashyboy (Jan 23, 2014)

As a liddle man city fan for the last 50 years it's fair to say ave had enough stick off the rags to last 10 lifetimes, and to be fair a lot of it was probably fair. I have a university degree in watching crap football.

It is ironic that the accusations thrown at city, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc from the rag fans " that you bought your trophies" is now a bit hollow seeing as how they have just "knee jerked" and bought Mata with others to follow.

the oxfam window picture is a couple of weeks old now but I put the same notice at the side of our clocking in machines at work last night. The response from the rags was hilarious. However what was not expected was the response from non rag fans and non football fans. Mainly along the lines of "its about time they got some stick back after all the muck they have given out over the years".

it seems it's not just me that has been a target of ridicule over the years, however I will say that most rag fans that I talk to who go to "the swamp" and actually watch them are quite educated. It's the Sky sports Rag utd fans that rub me up the most that don't know what area of Manchester sorry, Salford the swamp is actually sited.

finally.

Blue moon you saw me standing alone


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2014)

The world is always a nicer place when Manure are struggling - the next best will be Maureen going another season winning sweet FA


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## adam6177 (Jan 23, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The world is always a nicer place when Manure are struggling - the next best will be Maureen going another season winning sweet FA 

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I too am loving their misery and the fact that nearly every Monday now my boss is very very very quiet about the weekends football.

Now, lets get them knocked off their perch.


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## One Planer (Jan 23, 2014)

There does seem to be quite a bit of 'hatere' towards Manchester United on here.

Never understood it myself. I'm a Stoke fan (so know nothing about football) and can honestly say I couldn't give a monkeys how other clubs are doing.


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## Khamelion (Jan 23, 2014)

I don't really like revelling in the misery of others, but in the case of Alex Fergusson i'll make an acception, to see his sour puss face after the final penalty last night, priceless.

Wonder how many times he's thought about coming out of retirement?

As not only is Moyes not doing the biz, Moyes got the full endorsement from Fergusson. 

No trophies this year and every possibility that league position will rule them out of Europe next season as well.


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## Qwerty (Jan 23, 2014)

cookelad said:



			If it continues it'll be a reverse of what we've seen in recent years with the blue side of Manchester the true supporters will continue to be exactly that the rest will disappear into the holes recently vacated by those citeh fans who couldn't give a toss prior to Sheik An Vac's billions arriving on the scene!
		
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I agree with this although I don't think we'll see united sink to the depths that citeh did.  Im hoping it'll filter out all the daytrippers and JCLs and maybe then you'll See/hear a bit more passion in the stands at OT.

I think the main problem for united is keeping on top of the Glazers Debt. This has been manageable since 2005 due to success/Champions League every year etc, also the Ronaldo money didn't exactly get reinvested. I'd imagine that 4th champions league spot is hugely important.


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## Fish (Jan 23, 2014)

Khamelion said:



			I don't really like revelling in the misery of others, but in the case of Alex Fergusson i'll make an acception, to see his sour puss face after the final penalty last night, priceless.

Wonder how many times he's thought about coming out of retirement?

As not only is Moyes not doing the biz, Moyes got the full endorsement from Fergusson. 

No trophies this year and every possibility that league position will rule them out of Europe next season as well.
		
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But Fergie left him what exactly? an old, ageing and inexperienced side that needed major investment as most of that team would not walk into another premiership starting line up, that's something that couldn't be said of many of the manure teams in the past!


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## adam6177 (Jan 23, 2014)

Gareth said:



			There does seem to be quite a bit of 'hatere' towards Manchester United on here.

Never understood it myself. I'm a Stoke fan (so know nothing about football) and can honestly say I couldn't give a monkeys how other clubs are doing.
		
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Thanks for the edit.....sorry about that!

To be honest my hatred of them comes 99% from the Man Utd fans I know + Alex Ferguson. 

Arrogant, ignorant, obnoxious, utterly deplorable.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2014)

adam6177 said:



			Thanks for the edit.....sorry about that!

To be honest my hatred of them comes 99% from the Man Utd fans I know + Alex Ferguson. 

Arrogant, ignorant, obnoxious, utter deplorable.
		
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Spot on - have met the odd Manc fan who isn't the above but very rare.

They have always been arrogant about their club - even during the 70's and 80's when they won no major titles they still believed themselves the best in the country 

Shame they are still not the most successful club in England


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## In_The_Rough (Jan 23, 2014)

Khamelion said:



			I don't really like revelling in the misery of others, but in the case of Alex Fergusson i'll make an acception, to see his sour puss face after the final penalty last night, priceless.

Wonder how many times he's thought about coming out of retirement?

As not only is Moyes not doing the biz, Moyes got the full endorsement from Fergusson. 

No trophies this year and every possibility that league position will rule them out of Europe next season as well.
		
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Yes old Bacon Face was a picture last night. Love to know what he really thinks at the moment


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## Fish (Jan 23, 2014)

In_The_Rough said:



			Yes old Bacon Face was a picture last night. Love to know what he really thinks at the moment
		
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Personally I don't think they'd be doing that much better if he had stayed on another year!


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## In_The_Rough (Jan 23, 2014)

Fish said:



			Personally I don't think they'd be doing that much better if he had stayed on another year!
		
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Have to disagree there mate. The fear factor has gone for a start and that is huge. I know the players would still be the same but tactics would be different and they would certainly have got some players during the summer unlike the shambles that occurred. I think if SAF was still in charge they would be in the top 4


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## cookelad (Jan 23, 2014)

Qwerty said:



			I agree with this although I don't think we'll see united sink to the depths that citeh did.  Im hoping it'll filter out all the daytrippers and JCLs and maybe then you'll See/hear a bit more passion in the stands at OT.

I think the main problem for united is keeping on top of the Glazers Debt. This has been manageable since 2005 due to success/Champions League every year etc, also the Ronaldo money didn't exactly get reinvested. I'd imagine that 4th champions league spot is hugely important.
		
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I don't for a second imagine Man U will be getting relegated in the near future and certainly not as far down as Citeh reached at their low, but it was amazing how many people I know (limited) that couldn't care less about football when they were mid/low in the premier league then the news broke that there was a extremely wealthy backer on side - 1 guy at my old club as an example went over night from not caring to being dressed head to toe in sky blue and/or Citeh golf kit!


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## Khamelion (Jan 23, 2014)

Fish said:



			But Fergie left him what exactly? an old, ageing and inexperienced side that needed major investment as most of that team would not walk into another premiership starting line up, that's something that couldn't be said of many of the manure teams in the past!
		
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indeed, but that's the beauty of the situation. Fergie must have thought Moyes had it in him to get the best of the players he was leaving in his legacy, but it's becoming apparent that this is not the case. Be it previously they were playing for the manager (Fergie|) or that Moyes has not, as yet managed to bring the current Man U squad around to his style.

But that written Manu are not exactly ageing or inexperienced, apart from the obvious older players (Ferdinand, Rooney, Evra, Van Persie) the majority are all in the 20-25 age range and all have over 100 appearances for the club, so it's not as if they haven't played together.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2014)




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## One Planer (Jan 23, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 8881

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-25858527

:rofl:


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## In_The_Rough (Jan 23, 2014)

The mind boggles


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## pbrown7582 (Jan 23, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Spot on - have met the odd Manc fan who isn't the above but very rare.

They have always been arrogant about their club - even during the 70's and 80's when they won no major titles they still believed themselves the best in the country 

Shame they are still not the most successful club in England 

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isn't 62 trophies more than 59?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2014)

Gareth said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-25858527

:rofl:
		
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That's comedy gold :rofl:


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## pbrown7582 (Jan 23, 2014)

Fish said:



			But Fergie left him what exactly? an old, ageing and inexperienced side that needed major investment as most of that team would not walk into another premiership starting line up, that's something that couldn't be said of many of the manure teams in the past!
		
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That had just won the championship by 11 points. Yes some freshening up was maybe needed been without a decent midfield pairing for years, but as I stated earlier the players are just not putting a shift in.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2014)

pbrown7582 said:



			isn't 62 trophies more than 59?
		
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Don't count Community Shield/Charity Cup


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## pbrown7582 (Jan 23, 2014)

so most fac wins and most league championship wheres the missing trophies then?  :mmm:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2014)

pbrown7582 said:



			so most fac wins and most league championship wheres the missing trophies then?  :mmm:
		
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League 
FA Cup
League Cups
EC 
CWC
UEFA Cup/Europa Lge 

The major club comps clubs in England play for including European Cup comps but not super cups or charity's shields etc

Those for me have always been the major trophies :thup:

They determine success


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## Sweep (Jan 23, 2014)

Call me crazy, but I think Jose still wants the Man U job.
He always seems very kind about Man U in post match interviews after playing them and Sunday was no exception.


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## Kellfire (Jan 23, 2014)

#ggmu


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2014)

Understand Moyes has assured the Manc Fans they will compete in a European Comp next season



He is even prepared to write the song himself


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## Papas1982 (Jan 24, 2014)

Crazyface said:



			We seem to have gone off track here. 

Manure is the correct spelling, and isn't it all just pigggin' brilliant !!!! Just when you think it can't get any better....IT DOES !!!!!!! It's the next best thing to winning the lottery.
		
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 A rival losing is second to the lottery?? Wow, surely YOUR team should be a priority. 
Its good to have a dislike for a rival, but i've never understood who people can prioritise their opponents downfall over their own teams success.


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## Doh (Jan 24, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			A rival losing is second to the lottery?? Wow, surely YOUR team should be a priority. 
Its good to have a dislike for a rival, but i've never understood who people can prioritise their opponents downfall over their own teams success.
		
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Well said, me neither hate is a very strong emotion to be carrying around with you, and it is never balanced against the support they have for their team. However they are.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 24, 2014)

fundy said:



			I hear Rooneys been told he wont be allowed to leave United for one of their main competitors, so thats ruled out Southampton and Norwich 

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Lol, funny how UTD are as close tip as they are to Norwich? I'd take him at saints we could do with another England squad member......


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2014)

So Taggerts whiskey habit has got worse I see 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25885643

:rofl:


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## MadAdey (Jan 24, 2014)

It is funny how all the United fans are very quite at work now. For years you have just had to listen to them going on and on, what a refreshing change this is. The best chance of United being No1 again is making another crappy song with Status Quo......LOL


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## Papas1982 (Jan 24, 2014)

Am I misreading the league, it looks to me like UTD are ) points if CL spot, closer than Pool to title. Yet I've heard many say pool have a **** at title and UTD won't get Europa? By all means bask in this if ya wish, but I'd probably wait til May. Anybody remember spurs fans shirts last season?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Am I misreading the league, it looks to me like UTD are ) points if CL spot, closer than Pool to title. Yet I've heard many say pool have a **** at title and UTD won't get Europa? By all means bask in this if ya wish, but I'd probably wait til May. Anybody remember spurs fans shirts last season?
		
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Sorry but struggling to understand that post - especially the first bit 

UTD are closer to Liverpool to the title ?


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## Papas1982 (Jan 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but struggling to understand that post - especially the first bit 

UTD are closer to Liverpool to the title ? 

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Bleeding phone and fat fingers don't go well.

Basically, my point is that there have been references on here such as knocking UTD back of the perch (winning title). Whilst UTD are currently closer to a top 4 finish than Pool are to the title. Its just a little early to crow in my opinion.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Bleeding phone and fat fingers don't go well.

Basically, my point is that there have been references on here such as knocking UTD back of the perch (winning title). Whilst UTD are currently closer to a top 4 finish than Pool are to the title. Its just a little early to crow in my opinion.
		
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We haven't got a hope of winning the title - not for ages due to the quality of squads like City but the comfort is UTD struggling to even reach Europe. 

Us getting Top 4 would be great


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## Papas1982 (Jan 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			We haven't got a hope of winning the title - not for ages due to the quality of squads like City but the comfort is UTD struggling to even reach Europe. 

Us getting Top 4 would be great
		
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That's a fair assessment, I would suggest its City's to lose. And whilst it is tempting to revel in a rivals downfall. I would just suggest waiting til season ends. In recent seasons Spurs have been caught out mocking arsenal and ended up with egg on their faces...


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## Khamelion (Jan 24, 2014)

Sweep said:



			Call me crazy, but I think Jose still wants the Man U job.
He always seems very kind about Man U in post match interviews after playing them and Sunday was no exception.
		
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Mourinho has said that he would like to manage Newcastle at some point. He saw Bobby Robson as his mentor, he likes Newcastle and the feeling is he would like to carry on Sir Bobbies legacy and try to get silverware for Newcastle that has eluded many a previous manager.

I'm not suggesting that this will happen this or next or even the season after, but there's a fair to middling chance it will happen.


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## In_The_Rough (Jan 24, 2014)

Would more than shocked if this did happen TBH


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## Andy808 (Jan 24, 2014)

bobmac said:



			The 3 who failed to hit their target should be sacked, just like in real life. :angry:
Â£100,000s a week and they cant hit a box 24'x8'
Over paid, under-achieving, imported cheats that the fans have to pay a fortune to watch fall over
:rant:

Who won by the way?
		
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Didn't one of the penalties struggle to stay in the stadium!


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 24, 2014)

Makes Peter Beardsley look like David Beckham this kid.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2014)

Have confirmed the signing of Mata


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## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Have confirmed the signing of Mata
		
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I'm gutted he's gone to that lot, he's a great footballer that will improve them if the manager has anything about him and plays to his strengths.

Mata will be the 1st United player i've ever liked.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm gutted he's gone to that lot, he's a great footballer that will improve them if the manager has anything about him and plays to his strengths.

Mata will be the 1st United player i've ever liked.
		
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One of the best in the prem - still can't believe they let him go and also can't believe a Spanish team didnt bid


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## In_The_Rough (Jan 24, 2014)

Good signing for UTD question is will Moyes play him correctly. To be fair only 2 Spanish teams could afford him and they are not exactly short of players in that area


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## Papas1982 (Jan 24, 2014)

In_The_Rough said:



			Good signing for UTD question is will Moyes play him correctly. To be fair only 2 Spanish teams could afford him and they are not exactly short of players in that area
		
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Will mean a revert to the formation they played with tevez Ronaldo and Rooney to fit all the big names in. Could be a master stroke, could be a kagawa.


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## In_The_Rough (Jan 24, 2014)

Do not think Moyes is that attacking. More than likely there will be 1 or 2 leaving if not now then in the summer.


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## Garesfield ACE (Jan 24, 2014)

Khamelion said:



			Mourinho has said that he would like to manage Newcastle at some point. He saw Bobby Robson as his mentor, he likes Newcastle and the feeling is he would like to carry on Sir Bobbies legacy and try to get silverware for Newcastle that has eluded many a previous manager.

I'm not suggesting that this will happen this or next or even the season after, but there's a fair to middling chance it will happen.
		
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Show me where this has been said PLEASE..........There is as much chance of that as 5under1and winning the League Cup....


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## MadAdey (Jan 24, 2014)

Mata sitting behind Rooney and RVP would be lethal. Problem is they need someone to win the ball back to give to them first. For me this looks like where United are struggling the most, teams are dominating them in midfield. That never happened under Fergie. Read on a couple of things that they are looking at Marchisio, would sort that problem out I think.

But hey with a stroke of luck they will all come down with the flu and be out for a month......


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## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Will mean a revert to the formation they played with tevez Ronaldo and Rooney to fit all the big names in. Could be a master stroke, *could be a kagawa*.
		
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Sat on the bench? Mata's way too good for that.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 24, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Sat on the bench? Mata's way too good for that.
		
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Kagawa was making a mockery of Bayern whilst in Germany. He's record for Dortmund was outstanding. But they play him out of position. I'm not saying that he's better than mata, but if they stick him on the left and expect a typical wingers performed like has been expected of kagawa they'll get the same lethargic perfomances.


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## MadAdey (Jan 24, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Kagawa was making a mockery of Bayern whilst in Germany. He's record for Dortmund was outstanding. But they play him out of position. I'm not saying that he's better than mata, but if they stick him on the left and expect a typical wingers performed like has been expected of kagawa they'll get the same lethargic perfomances.
		
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What is wrong with playing people out of position? England did it for many years when they would put Gerrard on the left wing, or in a defensive midfield role. It does not work does it, because all the tabloids and the fans moaned that he did not play like he did for Liverpool.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 24, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			What is wrong with playing people out of position? England did it for many years when they would put Gerrard on the left wing, or in a defensive midfield role. It does not work does it, because all the tabloids and the fans moaned that he did not play like he did for Liverpool.
		
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Not sure if you're questioning me or agreeing?

i would say that with Gerarrd he was massively under used as a cm, but that was down to him being so good he could play anywhere across midfield. As to kagawa/mata. They're both no 10's they have to play in the hole. Anywhere else and their tendencies (defensive deficiencies show up).


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## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Kagawa was making a mockery of Bayern whilst in Germany. He's record for Dortmund was outstanding. But they play him out of position. I'm not saying that he's better than mata, but if they stick him on the left and expect a typical wingers performed like has been expected of kagawa they'll get the same lethargic perfomances.
		
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I agree with you re Kagawa but for some unknown reason Moyes can't see this.

United need a back 4 at least not Mata.

Imagine Moyes with money was some of the cries last summer! :rofl:


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## MadAdey (Jan 25, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Not sure if you're questioning me or agreeing?

i would say that with Gerarrd he was massively under used as a cm, but that was down to him being so good he could play anywhere across midfield. As to kagawa/mata. They're both no 10's they have to play in the hole. Anywhere else and their tendencies (defensive deficiencies show up).
		
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I was being a sarcastic about not playing players in their strongest position. I do agree with you that players are made to look mediocre by managers not playing them at their strongest. 

Someone like Suarez is a good example of it. Look at him this season with him not being made to play as the striker always standing on the last defender. With Sturridge, Couthinio and Sterling around him he can go walk about and pick the ball making things happens.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 25, 2014)

The Mata deal looks like good business for both utd & Chelsea. He's a quality player,but Â£37m for a player that's surplus to requirements  looks a good deal for Chelsea.


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## MadAdey (Jan 25, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			The Mata deal looks like good business for both utd & Chelsea. He's a quality player,but Â£37m for a player that's surplus to requirements  looks a good deal for Chelsea.
		
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It just stinks of desperate to me. I know he is a far better player than Carroll, but it is like when Dalgleish paid Â£35M for him in a mid January panic.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 25, 2014)

Â£64m on Fellaini & Mata. Be interesting to see how Utd react if they don't make top 4.


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## Adi2Dassler (Jan 25, 2014)

Tashyboy said:



			It is ironic that the accusations thrown at city, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc from the rag fans " that you bought your trophies" is now a bit hollow seeing as how they have just "knee jerked" and bought Mata with others to follow.
		
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Is it not the case that Uniteds success created their wealth, whereas City and Chelseas wealth has created the success?


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## Papas1982 (Jan 25, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Is it not the case that Uniteds success created their wealth, whereas City and Chelseas wealth has created the success?
		
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Sssssshhh, that's almost like saying UTD's debt is a mortgage. And as we all know, you're in trouble if you have one of those


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## MadAdey (Jan 25, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Â£64m on Fellaini & Mata. Be interesting to see how Utd react if they don't make top 4.
		
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That is some serious cash for a central midfield partnership. You would expect big things for that sort of money.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 25, 2014)

Always makes me laugh when utd fans get face on when other clubs splash the cash :rofl:


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## Adi2Dassler (Jan 25, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Sssssshhh, that's almost like saying UTD's debt is a mortgage. And as we all know, you're in trouble if you have one of those 

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How the Glaziers bought United should be illegal.Borrowing to buy then lumping the debt onto a football club is madness.No way you'd be allowed to do that inn Germany or Italy or Spain.

But the point stands that no other club in England could weather the debt, pay it down, still win trophies,increase value and buy players.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 25, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			How the Glaziers bought United should be illegal.Borrowing to buy then lumping the debt onto a football club is madness.No way you'd be allowed to do that inn Germany or Italy or Spain.

But the point stands that no other club in England could weather the debt, pay it down, still win trophies,increase value and buy players.
		
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i don't see why not. Many business are bought this way, the club hasn't been in any financial since it happened and they have massively increased sponsorship in the time. If they start taking huge dividends in 5 years instead if putting it back in the club then that's another story. But it could be that once it's cleared UTD will have unparalleled spending power (self generated).


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## Adi2Dassler (Jan 25, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			i don't see why not. *Many business are bought this way*, the club hasn't been in any financial since it happened and they have massively increased sponsorship in the time. If they start taking huge dividends in 5 years instead if putting it back in the club then that's another story. But it could be that once it's cleared UTD will have unparalleled spending power (self generated).
		
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Hence one of the main factors to our current economic disaster.

A person borrows money, buys something that holds zero debt and then burdens that thing with the debt created by borrowing?


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## Papas1982 (Jan 25, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Hence one of the main factors to our current economic disaster.

A person borrows money, buys something that holds zero debt and then burdens that thing with the debt created by borrowing?
		
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Loud society is in debt for many reasons. Any business can fold, clearly the glaziers are good businessmen hence their previous wealth. If no business ever took chances there would be no growth. Our current plight has more to do with people over borrowing for their iPhones, sky contracts and dfs sofas whilst struggling to pair the luxury bills like a mortgage.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 25, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Loud society is in debt for many reasons. Any business can fold, clearly the glaziers are good businessmen hence their previous wealth. If no business ever took chances there would be no growth. Our current plight has more to do with people over borrowing for their iPhones, sky contracts and dfs sofas whilst struggling to pair the luxury bills like a mortgage.
		
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So are you saying Mata is UTD's iPhone?


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## MadAdey (Jan 25, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			So are you saying Mata is UTD's iPhone?
		
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No it smacks more of GIBBO has had a beer again and gone on Ebay..............:rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 25, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			No it smacks more of GIBBO has had a beer again and gone on Ebay..............:rofl:
		
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:rofl::rofl::thup:


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## Papas1982 (Jan 25, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			So are you saying Mata is UTD's iPhone?
		
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I'm saying that UTD can afford Mata, or any other play they choose to but due to their self generated wealth as a business. It just went a little of topic. Is Mata overpriced, when you consider how Chelsea have used him this season, maybe. But would anyone have questioned Â£37m if he was signed for that last summer? Fellaini on the overhand appears to be a be overspend.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 25, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I'm saying that UTD can afford Mata, or any other play they choose to but due to their self generated wealth as a business. It just went a little of topic. Is Mata overpriced, when you consider how Chelsea have used him this season, maybe. But would anyone have questioned Â£37m if he was signed for that last summer? Fellaini on the overhand appears to be a be overspend.
		
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Â£37m is obviously a huge sum,but at today's prices it's probably about right.


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## MadAdey (Jan 25, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Â£37m is obviously a huge sum,but at today's prices it's probably about right.
		
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IMO if someone outside of the Premier League had come in for him then I think they could have maybe got him for closer to Â£30M. But if Chelsea are going to let a top class player go to a rival then obviously they want to make sure it is worth it to them. A bit like Torres, was he worth Â£50M? Not a chance, but to Liverpool it compensated them enough to let the deal happen.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 25, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			IMO if someone outside of the Premier League had come in for him then I think they could have maybe got him for closer to Â£30M. But if Chelsea are going to let a top class player go to a rival then obviously they want to make sure it is worth it to them. A bit like Torres, was he worth Â£50M? Not a chance, but to Liverpool it compensated them enough to let the deal happen.
		
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I agree, I also believe if UTD were in title chase it wouldn't of happened. Even of Chelsea are trying to say otherwise.


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## pbrown7582 (Jan 25, 2014)

I need to be convinced about this signing! Yes good player but not what is missing at present, maybe with Rooney on verge of signing new contract then RVP may stay too but the holding midfield role and defensive needs a bit of attention ASAP. Maybe Shaw from soton will be a start.


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## Fish (Jan 25, 2014)

pbrown7582 said:



			I need to be convinced about this signing! Yes good player but not what is missing at present, maybe with Rooney on verge of signing new contract then RVP may stay too but the holding midfield role and defensive needs a bit of attention ASAP. Maybe Shaw from soton will be a start.
		
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Why not have Rooney as the holding midfielder, pretty sure he would be good their, giving you a spine of RVP, Mata, Rooney and A.N.Other at the back, then build left and right of that?


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## Kellfire (Jan 25, 2014)

Rooney is best up top. He can't tackle without losing the head, he wouldn't work long term in CM.


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## Kellfire (Jan 25, 2014)

pbrown7582 said:



			I need to be convinced about this signing! Yes good player but not what is missing at present, maybe with Rooney on verge of signing new contract then RVP may stay too but the holding midfield role and defensive needs a bit of attention ASAP. Maybe Shaw from soton will be a start.
		
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A large part of our defensive problems is that they are under continual pressure. We don't hold onto the ball up top and we aren't scoring enough. We need some sort of spark up front. If that's Mata plus a returning Rooney and RvP, I don't know, but it needs to come from somewhere. We are so static and one dimensional and it's making us easy to defend against. That in turn sees us lose possession constantly.


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## MadAdey (Jan 25, 2014)

Kellfire said:



			A large part of our defensive problems is that they are under continual pressure. We don't hold onto the ball up top and we aren't scoring enough. We need some sort of spark up front. If that's Mata plus a returning Rooney and RvP, I don't know, but it needs to come from somewhere. We are so static and one dimensional and it's making us easy to defend against. That in turn sees us lose possession constantly.
		
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I think they have multiple problems. I think that they are not retaining the ball well enough, but when they do loose it they do not get it back quick enough. Under Fergie they did not let the other team have possession and when they did it was in their own half. But when they got the ball they made things happen. This team just looks average under the control of Moyes, does he need time, yes I think he does. But If I was a United fan I would be worried about panic buying to sort problems.

Dalgliesh went panic buying, paid over the odds to try for instant success and ended up spending Â£71M on Carroll, Downing and Henderson. Moyes has spent Â£63M on Mata and Felliani. My worry for United fans is what is going to be next? Rumours of a Â£300K a week deal to try and keep Rooney, not sure how much truth there is in that though, but on a 5 year deal that is Â£75M. HOw much have they given to Mata?


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## Fish (Jan 25, 2014)

"That's Tom Cleverley. Don't bother passing to him. He's useless"


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 25, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			I think they have multiple problems. I think that they are not retaining the ball well enough, but when they do loose it they do not get it back quick enough. Under Fergie they did not let the other team have possession and when they did it was in their own half. But when they got the ball they made things happen. This team just looks average under the control of Moyes, does he need time, yes I think he does. But If I was a United fan I would be worried about panic buying to sort problems.

Dalgliesh went panic buying, paid over the odds to try for instant success and ended up spending Â£71M on Carroll, Downing and Henderson. Moyes has spent Â£63M on Mata and Felliani. My worry for United fans is what is going to be next? Rumours of a Â£300K a week deal to try and keep Rooney, not sure how much truth there is in that though, but on a 5 year deal that is Â£75M. HOw much have they given to Mata?
		
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I think Mata is a panic buy that could work for them


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## Kellfire (Jan 25, 2014)

Mata isn't a panic buy, imo. He's undoubtedly world class and when players of that calibre come up for sale, you push the boat out for them. Will he work out? No player is guaranteed.

Fellaini wasn't a panic buy either, it was just late because he was the back up if we didn't get others. It was a poor buy though.


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## MadAdey (Jan 25, 2014)

Kellfire said:



			Mata isn't a panic buy, imo. He's undoubtedly world class and when players of that calibre come up for sale, you push the boat out for them. Will he work out? No player is guaranteed.

Fellaini wasn't a panic buy either, it was just late because he was the back up if we didn't get others. It was a poor buy though.
		
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That's the point I am making, that was a lot of money for Fellaini and he went for him after failing to get other players, sounds like a panic buy. Moyes is desperate to get into the Champions league and is hoping that signing Mata will give him the edge to grab 4th and is willing to pay big money to do it. Is it a panic buy, maybe not because he is a fantastic player and I would love him at Liverpool, but the price he paid says panic.


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## Kellfire (Jan 25, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			That's the point I am making, that was a lot of money for Fellaini and he went for him after failing to get other players, sounds like a panic buy. Moyes is desperate to get into the Champions league and is hoping that signing Mata will give him the edge to grab 4th and is willing to pay big money to do it. Is it a panic buy, maybe not because he is a fantastic player and I would love him at Liverpool, but the price he paid says panic.
		
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Why do you keep mentioning Moyes?

He, like all PL managers, has no say over the price paid for a player. Ferguson was probably the last PL manager who had true input into that side of things.


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## MadAdey (Jan 25, 2014)

Kellfire said:



			Why do you keep mentioning Moyes?

He, like all PL managers, has no say over the price paid for a player. Ferguson was probably the last PL manager who had true input into that side of things.
		
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Ok then swap Moyes for Manchester United then. Either way it is a lot of money to spend and I feel that in both Fellaini and Mata they have paid over the odds. If he does give them what they need and they get into the Champions league then the revenue from that will pay for it.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 26, 2014)

Kellfire said:



			Why do you keep mentioning Moyes?

He, like all PL managers, has no say over the price paid for a player. Ferguson was probably the last PL manager who had true input into that side of things.
		
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I think Wenger as a big say on everything at Arsenal. He's probably the only one now tho.


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## Fish (Jan 26, 2014)

Kellfire said:



			Mata isn't a panic buy, imo. He's undoubtedly world class and when players of that calibre come up for sale, you push the boat out for them. Will he work out? No player is guaranteed.
		
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Personally I think he is a bit of a panic buy, the reason I believe that is, as much as I think he is an absolute great player and person, the most any other clubs (home & abroad) would have come in for him was around the 30m or slightly below mark.  I also think that due to his personal terms (wages) jumping from 70k to 140k tells me that not much negotiating went on, they wanted him, and they got him, but on Chelsea and the players terms only!

I agree though, although more than proven in the prem, will he fit into Moyes tactics and the current united side or are they going to build around him slightly if there are some more comings & goings dependent on where they finish and make Europe or not? 

They definitely need to build from the back first, its one thing scoring goals at one end but you've got to stop them going into the other one first :smirk:


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## Papas1982 (Jan 26, 2014)

Fish said:



			Personally I think he is a bit of a panic buy, the reason I believe that is, as much as I think he is an absolute great player and person, the most any other clubs (home & abroad) would have come in for him was around the 30m or slightly below mark.  I also think that due to his personal terms (wages) jumping from 70k to 140k tells me that not much negotiating went on, they wanted him, and they got him, but on Chelsea and the players terms only!

I agree though, although more than proven in the prem, will he fit into Moyes tactics and the current united side or are they going to build around him slightly if there are some more comings & goings dependent on where they finish and make Europe or not? 

They definitely need to build from the back first, its one thing scoring goals at one end but you've got to stop them going into the other one first :smirk:
		
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To be fair, in today's market I'd say he's easily worth those wages. And he may be overpriced but I think that's just typical January. Agree they need to strengthen at the back, that said if they have him, Rooney and RVP fot I don't think teams will be quite as gun oh as they are currently when facing the might Wellbwck..


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## Slime (Jan 26, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Ok then swap Moyes for Manchester United then. *Either way it is a lot of money to spend* and I feel that in both Fellaini and Mata they have paid over the odds. If he does give them what they need and they get into the Champions league then the revenue from that will pay for it.
		
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Â£37.1m is a lot of money, but he's a lot of player and could well be the difference between qualifying for the Champions League or not.
It's also a relative thing. Compared to some deals, he is expensive ........................ compared to others, (Fellaini Â£27.5m, Torres Â£50m, Carroll Â£35m), he's a steal.
I guess no-one will truly know until the end of the season but I don't think he was a panic buy at all.

*Slime*.


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## Foxholer (Jan 27, 2014)

adam6177 said:



			Arrogant, ignorant, obnoxious, utterly deplorable.
		
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I think that describes fans of several high performing Clubs - and not just in England! It may be the preponderance of them, but the Chelsea fans I know seem to be the same. The Arsenal ones I knew in their magic period were pretty much the same! Newcastle ones are the same (without the success?), though it's lovely to just listen to (most of) them - bonnie ludd!

Those (of us) that follower clubs in the 'Promotion/Relegation League' seem to have a simpler focus - and can rationalise disappointment much easier.



bobmac said:



			Over paid, under-achieving, imported cheats that the fans have to pay a fortune to watch fall over
		
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Succintly out! Though, again, it probably describes most of EPL. And it's only 'most' rather than 'all' because some of them aren't imported!


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