# No more playing off fairways until March :(



## louise_a (Dec 5, 2014)

We go on mats on Monday at Ellesmere, so its hitting of a mat or from the first cut for the next 3 months for me.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 5, 2014)

Couldn't do that and wouldn't pay my membership fees for that.


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## Tongo (Dec 5, 2014)

louise_a said:



			We go on mats on Monday at Ellesmere, so its hitting of a mat or from the first cut for the next 3 months for me.
		
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Why is there no play on the fairways?


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## Imurg (Dec 5, 2014)

I think that sucks.
I understand the reasoning for it but I think I'd struggle to enjoy golf like that.


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## User20205 (Dec 5, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Couldn't do that and wouldn't pay my membership fees for that.
		
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We've just introduced mats to save the course for next year. It's the first time it's been made compulsory after an optional trial last year.


If mats aren't for you, What would you do then Homer?


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## LanDog (Dec 5, 2014)

For those of you that have to use mats, do you stick to using them the whole way through the round, personally I can't stand them and hate having to use them


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## louise_a (Dec 5, 2014)

Tongo said:



			Why is there no play on the fairways?
		
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The theory is that it protects the grass when it wet and frozen, seems like more and more clubs are introducing it.

Hopefully I will get a few games at courses that don't do it.


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## louise_a (Dec 5, 2014)

LanDog said:



			For those of you that have to use mats, do you stick to using them the whole way through the round, personally I can't stand them and hate having to use them
		
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I actually don't mind using them, the problem is that you get used to a raised constant lie and then have to get used to playing of grass again, so I will mostly be playing from the first cut I expect.


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## Tongo (Dec 5, 2014)

louise_a said:



			The theory is that it protects the grass when it wet and frozen, seems like more and more clubs are introducing it.

Hopefully I will get a few games at courses that don't do it.
		
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Have only just realised that you meant playing off a mat from the fairway, not just a winter tee mat! 

That is rather rum.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 5, 2014)

therod said:



			We've just introduced mats to save the course for next year. It's the first time it's been made compulsory after an optional trial last year.


If mats aren't for you, What would you do then Homer?
		
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We play on the grass like normal. Replace divots and move on


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## User20205 (Dec 5, 2014)

LanDog said:



			For those of you that have to use mats, do you stick to using them the whole way through the round, personally I can't stand them and hate having to use them
		
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Yep all the way around, off the fairway and par 3 tees. What other option is there? 

I don't like it, but I buy into it.  I'm looking forward to playing off fairways like carpets next summer.


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## User20205 (Dec 5, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			We play on the grass like normal. Replace divots and move on
		
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That's not the question, if they were introduced at royal ascot, bearing in mind the definitive statement you made, what would you do?


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## louise_a (Dec 5, 2014)

therod said:



			Yep all the way around, off the fairway and par 3 tees. What other option is there? 

I don't like it, but I buy into it.  *I'm looking forward to playing off fairways like carpets next summer*.
		
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Don't hold your breath.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 5, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			We play on the grass like normal. Replace divots and move on
		
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Playing off mats during the winter season when its very wet to protect the course is quite sensible really -


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 5, 2014)

therod said:



			That's not the question, if they were introduced at royal ascot, bearing in mind the definitive statement you made, what would you do?
		
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Move. Unquestionably


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## pokerjoke (Dec 5, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Move. Unquestionably
		
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Lets hope no-one from the Ascot committee are looking in tonight you could
find the club on mats tomorrow


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## User20205 (Dec 5, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Move. Unquestionably
		
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Really. So Royal Ascot, in their centenary year introduce mats to make sure the course is pristine for next summer, and you would leave. 

This was done at the request of the course manager and agreed by the committee. You wouldn't accept that  you can't like it very much. 

You would benefit. It makes chipping and pitching easier:rofl:


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## User20205 (Dec 5, 2014)

louise_a said:



			Don't hold your breath.
		
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They will be excellent next summer, I'd guarantee it.


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## Birchy (Dec 5, 2014)

Mats are ridiculous, cant stand them.

Last club had them so i left.


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## Qwerty (Dec 5, 2014)

I'm pretty surprised at this. I've always thought that using mats throughout winter was the norm at most inland courses, but after reading this and a similar thread the other day it seems its pretty much a northern and Scottish thing.


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2014)

Not too often I agree with Homer but Im with him on this one, cant see me staying at a club that introduced this if there were other options around that didnt. Same argument with winter tees and temp greens for me too. The other side of the coin is our greens and fairways take a little longer to recover in spring but I prefer that and the chance to play the full course almost all year round


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## guest100718 (Dec 5, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Couldn't do that and wouldn't pay my membership fees for that.
		
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not such a problem here is the sunny south, but up north where its dark all day...


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 5, 2014)

We had our centenary on the old course and our 125th a couple of years back and neither have had any need to resort to this. If it's so wet and muddy I'd question whether it should be open. We've simply roped off areas around greens to make players walk away from fringes to give those areas time to recover over the winter and spring. We've never had any issues with grass growth or coverage since the course opened. For the money I pay (comparable to most of the other members clubs, neither over or under priced) I don't want to be hitting off mats. It's that simple. I'd want the green staff and management to provide a very persuasive argument to make me change my mind. No other club I know of in my vicinity have done it or ever seen the need to do so and they aren't having issues either


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## Oddsocks (Dec 5, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Couldn't do that and wouldn't pay my membership fees for that.
		
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+1 , if rather find another course to get my winter fix at, if I wanted 3 months of that I'd join a driving range


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## virtuocity (Dec 5, 2014)

therod said:



			Really. So Royal Ascot, in their centenary year introduce mats to make sure the course is pristine for next summer, and you would leave. 

This was done at the request of the course manager and agreed by the committee. You wouldn't accept that  you can't like it very much. 

You would benefit. It makes chipping and pitching easier:rofl:
		
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Why so personal? For what it's worth, I pay annual subscriptions like most posters and demand annual use of a course as a result. 

Â£450 for all year use btw.


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## bluewolf (Dec 5, 2014)

Having been at a club that required mats and one that made them optional, I can honestly say that they certainly made a difference. The fairways at my old club were consistently in a better condition than those at my new club.

 The soil around here means that the majority of clubs have them. I don't like them, but thems the breaks and no amount of complaining is gonna make it better.. Still, we've always got the great NW Links to drive over to when the need for mat free golf arises..


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## User20205 (Dec 5, 2014)

Oddsocks said:



			+1 , if rather find another course to get my winter fix at, if I wanted 3 months of that I'd join a driving range
		
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You fellas can't like your clubs much if you'd leave because of 3 months off mats. 12 rounds maybe. 6 qualifiers


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## chrisd (Dec 5, 2014)

Oddsocks said:



			+1 , if rather find another course to get my winter fix at, if I wanted 3 months of that I'd join a driving range
		
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I think I'd baulk at a sub over Â£1,000 and have to use a mat and would probably join Homer and Oddsocks. "The three nomads"


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## User20205 (Dec 5, 2014)

virtuocity said:



			Why so personal? For what it's worth, I pay annual subscriptions like most posters and demand annual use of a course as a result. 

Â£450 for all year use btw.  

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It's not personal, just examining homers proclaimation that starts with 'I'.

It's normal for open rota courses to have mats prior to hosting the event. Would you leave there too? 

Seems a bit absolute to me,


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## bozza (Dec 5, 2014)

Never use mats at our course but a course about a mile away does and I'd say our fairways are in better condition all year plus ours gets a lot more use due to a larger membership. 

But I can see the reason behind it, I doubt id leave my course if they brought it in but It would make me think twice about joining a course that uses them.


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## Imurg (Dec 5, 2014)

I think if it was for one Winter, with a view to having a perfect course for a special occasion like a Centenary, I could probably live with it, but if it was to be every winter it would be a deal breaker for me.


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## Matty2803 (Dec 5, 2014)

My courses both use mats on the Fairway during winter.  Not a real problem though, I'm in the rough anyway!!


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 5, 2014)

therod said:



			It's not personal, just examining homers proclaimation that starts with 'I'.

It's normal for open rota courses to have mats prior to hosting the event. Would you leave there too? 

Seems a bit absolute to me,
		
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I don't see what your issue is. I've explained my stance and why I wouldn't stay. It's a personal choice and for the money I have to pay around here it's a criteria I play off grass all year


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## User20205 (Dec 5, 2014)

Imurg said:



			I think if it was for one Winter, with a view to having a perfect course for a special occasion like a Centenary, I could probably live with it, but if it was to be every winter it would be a deal breaker for me.
		
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I'm not sure what will happen next year, I suspect that they'll keep the rule in place. 

We have a couple of problem fairways, they needed to be reseeded after last winter and were GUR until may. 

I'm of the view that I'd rather play off mats for 3 months in the winter playing once per week, and the course be great when I'm playing x3 more rounds. 

I definitely wouldn't make me leave for a substandard course which didn't have mats.


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## Toad (Dec 5, 2014)

We introduced mats a couple of years ago, a good number of members were unhappy but it did make a massive difference come the start of the season and the majority now agree that they are a good thing. We do have the option of playing from the first cut of the rough as I prefer doing as I'm not overly keen on the mat but can honestly say I did not give any thought to leaving due to them being introduced.


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## stevek1969 (Dec 5, 2014)

No mats at my place in the winter but to be honest i wouldn't mind them if it saves the fairways for the season ahead.


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## backwoodsman (Dec 5, 2014)

I'm another who'd baulk at mats for the price we pay. I absolutely love the club I'm at but if mats came in, I think I'd be asking The Three Nomads if I could make up a fourball.


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## User20205 (Dec 5, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I don't see what your issue is. I've explained my stance and why I wouldn't stay. It's a personal choice and for the money I have to pay around here it's a criteria I play off grass all year
		
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What I pay , i believe is comparable, and I'd like to see the course at its best. That for me is value, aslo I'd defer to the course manager whose knowledge is better than mine.


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## chrisd (Dec 5, 2014)

14 weeks of golf for me, assuming no closures is nearer 35 rounds and to be honest it's a field and my experience is that the grass grows back no problem. I wouldn't be happy to play off a mat and agree with others who would consider their position if it were introduced. I can't understand why anyone is unhappy with that


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 5, 2014)

therod said:



			What I pay , i believe is comparable, and I'd like to see the course at its best. That for me is value, aslo I'd defer to the course manager whose knowledge is better than mine.
		
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Possibly you do pay the same but I've no issues with the condition of our course, especially in Spring and Summer. That's the bottom line. Our green staff and the new head green keeper (well he's into the second year of a three year programme since joining) has done a great job. The club has just paid for extensive drainage works on the low lying holes (12 and 13) and cleared drainage ditches and already we're seeing some improvements in the first few weeks


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## Lanark_Golfer (Dec 5, 2014)

Mats started from Monday at my place, with the option of placing 1 club length into the rough instead. We are on proper tees and greens right through the winter and it's a small price to pay for having the course in tip top condition during the qualifying season. Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather hit from the fairway but I need a little practice out the rough sometimes :rofl:


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## Nosevi (Dec 5, 2014)

Each to their own as far as I'm concerned, if you don't like them, you don't like them. 

We don't have mats at my place but we do have 'lift and place' winter rules in force so your ball is always on a decent lie anyway. I kind of try to hit ball then turf so not sure why a mat would make any difference whatsoever - the ball's gone by the time I hit the mat. I hit off mats a lot and I hit off turf a lot - makes not a jot of difference to me on a well struck shot. If I hit it a tad fat it makes a difference but strike it cleanly and I couldn't care what the ball was lying on.


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## hovis (Dec 5, 2014)

I don't understand this " saving fairways''  even if they're trashed over winter they soon come back in no time.  The belfry pre germinate their seed so they're transformed in no time

I'm with homer.   I would leave a club with fairway mats.  The green keepers get paid so go and earn it


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## Merv_swerve (Dec 5, 2014)

hovis said:



			I don't understand this " saving fairways''  even if they're trashed over winter they soon come back in no time.  The belfry pre germinate their seed so they're transformed in no time

I'm with homer.   I would leave a club with fairway mats.  The green keepers get paid so go and earn it
		
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I'm always surprised how quickly our fairways come back so good. As wet as it was in February, by April/May they were fantastic.


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## Hobbit (Dec 5, 2014)

I've never understood this fad for mats. Most courses have survived countless winters. Machinery/fertilisers etc are more sophisticated than x years ago but there's a need for mats?!? Seriously, mats?!? There's less golfers playing than 10 yrs ago, and we need mats?!? Sorry, but I just think its rollox!


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## Val (Dec 5, 2014)

Nats or first cut at my home course. No hardship really.


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## Jensen (Dec 5, 2014)

We've got the option of mats or teeing up. Seems strange to me as divots are still taken when the balls teed up, so where's the sence in that.


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## User20205 (Dec 5, 2014)

Hobbit said:



			I've never understood this fad for mats. Most courses have survived countless winters. Machinery/fertilisers etc are more sophisticated than x years ago but there's a need for mats?!? Seriously, mats?!? There's less golfers playing than 10 yrs ago, and we need mats?!? Sorry, but I just think its rollox!
		
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I think the argument for them is that regeneration time eats into the season. We had gur in two fairways until may this year. That was after an especially wet winter and we do suffer generally because of the clay sub soil. 

If it's good enough for St Andrews....

Seems a bit of a silly reason to leave a club or stop playing especially in the off season. 

I support it, as do most of our membership.


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## LanDog (Dec 5, 2014)

I can't use them for pitching off, my course back home in Ireland didn't have them and the fairways were fine, flooding was the bigger issue, the course I play here that does use them doesn't have better conditioned fairways, and twit also suffers from flooding so I don't see the sense, 

It's bound to lose club's money over winter, if you weight it up, would it be cheaper to bin the mats and invest more into keeping the course?


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## JCW (Dec 5, 2014)

My green fees are due in January , Â£1565 , If you think I am then going to play of mats after paying that , think again , anyway we dont even play on temp greens , course is still in great condition so I dont buy into that at all , sorry , mats not for me ...............


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## richart (Dec 5, 2014)

therod said:



			You fellas can't like your clubs much if you'd leave because of 3 months off mats. 12 rounds maybe. 6 qualifiers

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 I agree. If we had to play off mats through the winter I would certainly not leave the Club. We don't have mats, winter tees, greens etc, so I would be very surprised if it ever happened.:fore:

Just in case Ascot does have mats, our membership is now full Homer.


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## User20205 (Dec 5, 2014)

I'm surprised at some of the ' mats no membership' stand point. Especially those that reference the amount paid

There's a point of difference between a member and a consumer. There seem to be more consumers....


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## Oddsocks (Dec 5, 2014)

therod said:



			You fellas can't like your clubs much if you'd leave because of 3 months off mats. 12 rounds maybe. 6 qualifiers

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As Chrisd said, Â£1200 a year subs to play driving range golf for a 1/4 of it ... Dragons dem style .... Sorry I'm out!

As it is we don't have a single mat or temp .... Around here that's what I expect for Â£1200pa


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## richart (Dec 5, 2014)

therod said:



			I'm surprised at some of the ' mats no membership' stand point. Especially those that reference the amount paid

There's a point of difference between a member and a consumer. There seem to be more consumers....
		
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 I couldn't be bothered joining a new club because of mats. Not like I am on the fairway much any way so wouldn't really notice. Love my club, and have loads of mates up there that I wouldn't ditch over a few months of mats. Course is ok as well.


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## User20205 (Dec 5, 2014)

Oddsocks said:



			As Chrisd said, Â£1200 a year subs to play driving range golf for a 1/4 of it ... Dragons dem style .... Sorry I'm out!

As it is we don't have a single mat or temp .... Around here that's what I expect for Â£1200pa
		
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How is it driving range golf??

All you do is use a mat when on the fairway, still use full tees, still use proper greens. I genuinely think if your quoting how much you pay, you've become a consumer.


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## williamalex1 (Dec 5, 2014)

Val said:



			Nats or first cut at my home course. No hardship really.
		
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Only because you play down south most of the time .
 I don't like using mats, but IMHO they are a necessary evil in my part of the UK.

 We have a couple of courses in my area that don't  use mats over the winter period [ sand based good drainage] and  they do attract temp winter memberships[ on a shorter course] from November till April ? for Â£150 .


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## richart (Dec 5, 2014)

therod said:



			How is it driving range golf??

All you do is use a mat when on the fairway, still use full tees, still use proper greens. I genuinely think if your quoting how much you pay, you've become a consumer.
		
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 Just worked out I hit 6 shots from the fairway last time I played 18 holes, and I played well. 6 shots using a mat out of 80 odd.:mmm:


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## Foxholer (Dec 5, 2014)

I've used a mat once and would avoid it wherever possible.

It was on a Scottish links course, so 'fairly normal' up there - and links grass is a lot more fragile. But I would not be happy down South playing off mats. 

Btw. Not only does St Andrews play off mats for a few months, but TOC is only open 6 days a week! Something like 'Golfers may not need the rest, but the course does!'!


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## JustOne (Dec 5, 2014)

I would leave. That simple.


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2014)

therod said:



			I'm surprised at some of the ' mats no membership' stand point. Especially those that reference the amount paid

There's a point of difference between a member and a consumer. There seem to be more consumers....
		
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You say that as if its a problem and that youre happy as a member to treated poorer than you would be as a consumer. Each to their own I guess.....


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## User20205 (Dec 5, 2014)

fundy said:



			You say that as if its a problem and that youre happy as a member to treated poorer than you would be as a consumer. Each to their own I guess.....
		
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No not treated poorer, just see the bigger picture. 

All this talk of leaving, for as Rich says, 8 shots a round for 3 months ....because I pay Â£xxxx = consumerism. I thought being a member meant more than that.


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2014)

therod said:



			No not treated poorer, just see the bigger picture. 

All this talk of leaving, for as Rich says, 8 shots a round for 3 months ....because I pay Â£xxxx = consumerism. I thought being a member meant more than that.
		
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Matter of perception and how much you value being a "member" I guess. Not worth massive amounts to me, so predominantly Im a consumer and want all year golf not for 7 or 8 months. Theres a great spirit at our club amongst the members, but most would happily go elsewhere if the playing experience was diminshed.

Where do you draw the line? How much do you take in lieu of being a member before you become a consumer? If this is acceptable what wouldnt be?


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## chrisd (Dec 5, 2014)

Member or consumer, I can't see too much difference but I don't see the need for mats down in Kent. Our course hasn't had any major problems as far as I know in the 100 years of its life and when the spring comes the fairways, and areas that are used by trolleys, quickly recover, so if we were to be asked to use mats I would see it as a huge over reaction and be very much against it. I don't have any problem with anyone who supports there use at their own club, but please leave me and mine to my view!


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## Foxholer (Dec 5, 2014)

therod said:



			No not treated poorer, just see the bigger picture. 

All this talk of leaving, for as Rich says, 8 shots a round for 3 months ....because I pay Â£xxxx = consumerism. I thought being a member meant more than that.
		
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It's not just 8 shots though is it! In the 87 shots I played last round, I hit 24 of then from fairway! An earlier round, 22 shots from fairway out of 77 total!


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 6, 2014)

therod said:



			I support it, as do most of our membership.
		
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Are a large portion of them 8-9 month a year golfers.

If so it wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't affect the greatly.

It would be interesting to see if the voting patterns changed for all year round golfers.


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## richart (Dec 6, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Are a large portion of them 8-9 month a year golfers.

If so it wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't affect the greatly.

It would be interesting to see if the voting patterns changed for all year round golfers.
		
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 Surely most golfers playing in the winter months don't take it too seriously, more social golf, bit of fresh air, and playing a few shots off a mat is hardly cause to leave the club ?


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## Foxholer (Dec 6, 2014)

richart said:



			Surely most golfers playing in the winter months don't take it too seriously, more social golf, bit of fresh air, and playing a few shots off a mat is hardly cause to leave the club ?
		
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Try suggesting it at your place and see what the reaction is then!


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## CliveW (Dec 6, 2014)

There is a vast difference between the weather in Scotland and the SE of England. At Blairgowrie we play off fairway mats, or first cut, from the beginning of November until March. The first cut is often hard to discern from the fairway so there is little difference in lie etc. This is the third year that we have done this, and there is a big difference in the course come the spring. On Wednesday, the temperature here was minus three when I teed off at 9.30 am, the course was completely white with frost and it was a struggle to push a tee into the ground. Wedges off mats are brilliant, the spin you can generate is awesome. 
As said before, most courses up here, especially in the Highlands, play off mats in the winter, and that includes many links courses such as St. Andrews. It is a price I'm happy to pay just to play golf, but I am prepared to travel to Gullane etc, to play without them.
Incidentally, we currently have a weather warning for heavy snow at Blairgowrie on Sunday, so it looks like there won't be any golf at all, but then we are only 20 miles away from the ski slopes.


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## Foxholer (Dec 6, 2014)

CliveW said:



			There is a vast difference between the weather in Scotland and the SE of England. At Blairgowrie we play off fairway mats, or first cut, from the beginning of November until March....
		
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That's fair enough. And I've not encountered any course in the South East that has them. Somewhere in between, there must be a cross-over and, if I was contemplating  club in that area, I would look at their policy and price before considering joining - along with all the other 'Winter related' matters = abandonment of qualifying comps, forward or temporary tees, Winter or temporary greens etc - to judge any decision to join there or elsewhere.

Just where that cross-over point is, I have no idea.


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## SocketRocket (Dec 6, 2014)

The clubs I have played that don't use them don't seem to have rubbish fairways in the summer.


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## Smiffy (Dec 6, 2014)

As soon as mats went down I'd be looking for somewhere else to play for the duration.
I hate hitting off of mats, this is why I never visit driving ranges.
I would rather not play golf for 3 months (or even more) than risk doing myself an injury with my shonky swing.


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## User20205 (Dec 6, 2014)

Smiffy said:



			As soon as mats went down I'd be looking for somewhere else to play for the duration.
I hate hitting off of mats, this is why I never visit driving ranges.
I would rather not play golf for 3 months (or even more) than risk doing myself an injury with my shonky swing.
		
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You might like it mate. You get a little raised section to put your ball in, you'd be hitting those new irons lovely off there. 

When they were optional last year some of the seniors preferred using them. You get some height on your 9 wood. 

The only question I have about them is how they can be authorised for use in qualifiers. There is a definite advantage to using them for some golfers.


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## Smiffy (Dec 6, 2014)

therod said:



			You might like it mate. You get a little raised section to put your ball in
		
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So I'd be hitting it even fatter!


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## Duckster (Dec 6, 2014)

They use mats at my place (which I knew before I joined) but they also have, consistently, the best fairways in the area.  They do make a difference.  Personally I'm not too bothered about playing off them.  Like some others have mentioned, I consider winter golf to be more about the social side.  Just getting out there, keeping a swing going and playing matchplay most weekends.  Trying to bed in any swing changes for the next season.  I spend the majority of the year at weekends trying to get my handicap down, I could do with a few months off from playing medals.

As for leaving my club due to playing off mats.  Nah.  I'd leave if the price of it went stupid, but not because of having to use mats.  (Especially as the other club right next to me uses mats as well)


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## sawtooth (Dec 6, 2014)

I've never played off mats on fairways before but I must admit the idea doesn't appeal at all. Hypothetically, if the course requested that for a period of time due to exceptional bad weather then yes I would comply - of course. But if it was a regular year on year arrangement for winter then I would try to find another course I think.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 6, 2014)

therod said:



			You would benefit. It makes chipping and pitching easier:rofl:
		
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I'm in  :thup:


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## Stub (Dec 6, 2014)

Time to look for another club if it was me:mmm:


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## Smiffy (Dec 6, 2014)

drive4show said:



			I'm in  :thup:
		
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I will have a look at your set up on Monday if you want Gordon and give you a few pointers


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## DCB (Dec 6, 2014)

I play on a parkland course where, depending on conditions, we use mats during the worst of the winter months. As Toad said earlier, not a popular option until you can compare the wear and tear to the course before use and the after use. It makes a huge difference in the early months of the new season. Given that the ground temp won't get above 8Â°C until well into April, an already slow growing season is definitely helped by their use. It reduces wear on the pinch points on the course where everyone seems to play from.

With last years milder conditions we were able to avoid their use for much of the winter, but, if it's a cold one this winter, they'll be back in use.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 6, 2014)

I find the comments about leaving your club if mats were introduced really interesting. OK, it's not ideal but presumably you joined your current club because it's the best one for you within a reasonable distance.

So you would leave what is the best club for you and join a worse one for the sake of 3 months playing off mats in the middle of winter? Sounds a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 6, 2014)

Smiffy said:



			I will have a look at your set up on Monday if you want Gordon and give you a few pointers


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No problem, I can drag you down to my level if you want mate


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## Smiffy (Dec 6, 2014)

drive4show said:



			No problem, I can drag you down to my level if you want mate  

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Nooooooo!!
My chipping is good Gordon.
It's everything else that's *****.


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## EuanRoss (Dec 6, 2014)

We have mats all winter but as a North east Scottish links course prone to frost, we don't really have a choice in my opinion. We also have forward tees which if we are on the normal greens, maximises the number of wedges being hit in, maximising the number of substantial divots. 

I hate them but to be honest, I think they are needed. When the temp is close to freezing and sometimes below, I'm just happy to get out on the course. Winter golf is what it is to me. A laugh and a time to try a few different things. We don't have qualifiers so who cares what you score really.


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## richart (Dec 6, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Try suggesting it at your place and see what the reaction is then! 

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 It is not going to happen, but if it did I doubt many would leave. Personally wouldn't mind mats, as it would save me walking miles collecting my divots.:thup: When we used to regularily have temporary greens in the winter, the course was reduced to 15 holes, and I didn't notice a flood of leavers. We just get on with it and don't whinge because we knew the course, especially the greens, would be in great condition through the spring, summer and autumn months.


If you are a member of a club you like, with a quality course why would you leave to probably pay a joining fee to join a club not as good ?


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## mcbroon (Dec 6, 2014)

We have the option of mats or playing from the first cut.  I don't like mats so play from the first cut.

The chances of the weather being good enough for me to play from the end of Nov to the end of Feb are fairly slim up here, so it's not going to affect more than 10 rounds.

No big deal.


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## bluewolf (Dec 6, 2014)

Is there a course in the South that uses mats AND has a formal interview before joining? If there is then it can't have too many members. 

In all seriousness though, the mats tend not to bother me as much as temp greens and forward tee boxes. I do understand the arguments for each one, but my last course had all 3. It was like a pitch and putt for 3 months!!!!!


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## Foxholer (Dec 6, 2014)

richart said:



			It is not going to happen, but if it did I doubt many would leave. Personally wouldn't mind mats, as it would save me walking miles collecting my divots.:thup: When we used to regularily have temporary greens in the winter, the course was reduced to 15 holes, and I didn't notice a flood of leavers. We just get on with it and don't whinge because we knew the course, especially the greens, would be in great condition through the spring, summer and autumn months.


If you are a member of a club you like, with a quality course why would you leave to probably pay a joining fee to join a club not as good ?
		
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I was more referring to the amount of noise/whingeing that would have happened!


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## nta73 (Dec 6, 2014)

not into this mat idea,


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## Smiffy (Dec 6, 2014)

I used to frequent a course that made you tee the ball up if on the fairway during bad weather.
It seemed to work and it was a lovely feeling being able to cream a drive 150 yards from off the fairway.


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## CliveW (Dec 6, 2014)

Smiffy said:



			I used to frequent a course that made you tee the ball up if on the fairway during bad weather.
It seemed to work and it was a lovely feeling being able to cream a drive 150 yards from off the fairway.
		
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That was tried at my last course, but players were still taking huge divots when they used wedges.


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## User20205 (Dec 6, 2014)

Just back from the club, first qualifier off mats. 

I was wrong there is some dissent. Apparently some have threatened to leave. One fella in the pro shop came out with the ' I don't play Â£xxxx a year to etc etc'. 

What a consumer!!! 

I'll concede if it was every winter it may be an issue, but to threaten to leave because the club want a decent centenary. It's poor IMO. I hope the club call their bluff.


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## TheJezster (Dec 6, 2014)

I've not played off mats before but wouldn't fancy it. I would probably consider changing clubs if that were the case, but I don't understand the people questioning those who have said they would leave! It's personal choice, it's got nothing to do with you, so perhaps learn to respect their stance. None of them have questioned constantly why those who would stay wouldn't leave...


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## Foxholer (Dec 6, 2014)

therod said:



			Just back from the club, first qualifier off mats. 

I was wrong there is some dissent. Apparently some have threatened to leave. One fella in the pro shop came out with the ' I don't play Â£xxxx a year to etc etc'. 

What a consumer!!! 

I'll concede if it was every winter it may be an issue, but to threaten to leave because *the club want a decent centenary*. It's poor IMO. I hope the club call their bluff.
		
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I think even I would 'forgive' that one!


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## patricks148 (Dec 6, 2014)

The last few years we have gone to mats and drop to the side. I don't have an issue with it, only tend to use the mat from 120 yards in and once you get used to it its fine. Our grass  can have periods of a couple of months when there is no growth at all. There used to be parts of the course that were wrecked for months as everyone ended up in the same spots.

pretty much all the courses up here now use them to protect parts of the fairways.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2014)

therod said:



			I'm surprised at some of the ' mats no membership' stand point. Especially those that reference the amount paid

There's a point of difference between a member and a consumer. There seem to be more consumers....
		
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I don't get this. I get the maximum I can for my membership in terms of playing, using the facilities and that includes eating there regularly and I socialise both at functions and with a regular group of partners. I really don't see that as being a consumer but it doesn't sway my opinion that for a membership of cÂ£1600 I wouldn't pay that and play off a mat. It really is that simple.


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## User20205 (Dec 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I don't get this. I get the maximum I can for my membership in terms of playing, using the facilities and that includes eating there regularly and I socialise both at functions and with a regular group of partners. I really don't see that as being a consumer but it doesn't sway my opinion that for a membership of cÂ£1600 I wouldn't pay that and play off a mat. It really is that simple.
		
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No it's crystal clear, you just can't like your  club very much if you'd leave over the use of mats for 3 months. What if they had temp greens for a while, what if they closed the practice ground for a bit. Would you leave then?


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## Soft hands (Dec 6, 2014)

We are on mats now as well im guessing most clubs in my area are though so changing wouldn't be an option unless I want to travel 20/30 mins,current club is  less than 5 mins away max.


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## louise_a (Dec 6, 2014)

There are some strong feelings on this topic. I would rather not play off mats but its something that has happened since I joined my club so I don't know any different. I don't know how I would feel if my club hadn't used them and then introduced them, however, as I am very involved in stuff at the club I guess I would probably stay.


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## upsidedown (Dec 6, 2014)

If they introduced this at my club I'd be very unhappy ( not going to happen as we have very good members who use divot bags to leave us with fantastic fairways in the spring ) but would never consider leaving.

There are musings that we may use 6 temporary greens in the week on a rotation to give the main greens a rest, we know that when they have not been used for a while they certainly benefit from rest.

To me the club is more than just a place to play golf and am very happy with ours.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2014)

therod said:



			No it's crystal clear, you just can't like your  club very much if you'd leave over the use of mats for 3 months. What if they had temp greens for a while, what if they closed the practice ground for a bit. Would you leave then?
		
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We have temp greens when frost or whether dictates and I understand the necessity. We do close the practice ground on several occasions per year and for a significant time before and after the Royal race meet as it's used for coach parking. We even closed the course to accommodate the Red Bull airace (and for the next two years), but we get a decent payment to do so it benefits the club and has allowed us to renew equipment and engage in some very beneficial drainage works. I know these are happening and accept that as part of my membership.

The one thing we have never struggled with is the quality of the fairways even with full winter play on them. Even when we had the 125th year centenary celebrations a couple of years ago after a very tough winter with snow on the ground for ages and then playing once the course opened. At one point we only had the front nine open last year so it was taken all the traffic for a six week period and guess what, not a single problem with the quality of the fairway this spring or summer. I think this "get it right for the centenary" is actually masking the issue that perhaps there has been a problem for a while.

Whether or not that's the case, we've never had a need. If they came in, I wouldn't be renewing my membership and going on to a club that didn't need mats. My subs are not a small outlay per annum and so I want to play "proper" golf off grass. It's a simple personal choice.


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## Maninblack4612 (Dec 6, 2014)

I am just so, so pleased to play on a heathland course where we play a full length course off proper tees 12 months of the year, with no mats used and preferred lies only on the fairways ( which, today, was totally unnecessary) Winter in this country lasts for the best part of 6 months, October to March & not playing a proper course all that time would really get me down.


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## User20205 (Dec 6, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			If they introduced this at my club I'd be very unhappy ( not going to happen as we have very good members who use divot bags to leave us with fantastic fairways in the spring ) but would never consider leaving.

There are musings that we may use 6 temporary greens in the week on a rotation to give the main greens a rest, we know that when they have not been used for a while they certainly benefit from rest.

To me the club is more than just a place to play golf and am very happy with ours.
		
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I agree absolutely. I'm not happy about mats, but I understand. To leave a club (or threaten to) because of this, I don't understand.

It's just an extension of winter rules, and if winters keep on getting wetter we may have to accept it


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## Soft hands (Dec 6, 2014)

It's my 1st year as a member of a club. We don't have qualifiers from Oct to Feb,I'll probably appreciate summer more using winter to work on the swing with no pressure of comps. 

Dont get get me wrong if like to play a full course but what can I do. Due to frost all temporary greens today just went out for a knock and a laugh.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2014)

The simple fact is for the money I'm paying I expect to be able to play off grass. Not convinced there is any need to use mats to protect the course. The course hasn't suffered even with the wettest winter last year, more traffic on the front nine being the only nine open and times. It's my leisure time and at a reasonably hefty cost and for the money I want the club to let me enjoy it to the maximum and off grass.


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## SammmeBee (Dec 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I don't get this. I get the maximum I can for my membership in terms of playing, using the facilities and that includes eating there regularly and I socialise both at functions and with a regular group of partners. I really don't see that as being a consumer but it doesn't sway my opinion that for a membership of cÂ£1600 I wouldn't pay that and play off a mat. It really is that simple.
		
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Yet you accept the condition that Royal Ascot is presented in.....

Not VFM in anyone's books for Â£1600.....sorry.


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## Leereed (Dec 6, 2014)

We are now off mats and I dislike them,you are hoping every drive lands in the first cut.(not a problem for me).full shots off mats are not to bad,it's chip shot, half shot that I find hard, no feel off mats.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2014)

SammmeBee said:



			Yet you accept the condition that Royal Ascot is presented in.....

Not VFM in anyone's books for Â£1600.....sorry.
		
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You last played it when? Extensive work done to improve drainage in last six weeks. Greens two years into a three year programme and getting better and quicker to putt on in the golfing season. As a cost, we're still cheaper than other comparable courses in the area and have benefits like no booked tee times to worry about


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## Duckster (Dec 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The simple fact is for the money I'm paying I expect to be able to play off grass. Not convinced there is any need to use mats to protect the course. The course hasn't suffered even with the wettest winter last year, more traffic on the front nine being the only nine open and times. It's my leisure time and at a reasonably hefty cost and for the money I want the club to let me enjoy it to the maximum and off grass.
		
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But what would you do if all the clubs near you (including yours) used mats bar one.  But that one had the worst fairways in the area for the other 9 months of the year?

Would you move then for the sake of 3 months of hitting of damp, frozen fairways rather than a mat?


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## Soft hands (Dec 6, 2014)

I suppose it comes down to why you choose which club to be a member to as well I suppose. 

I pay 600ish for membership i can walk there in 10mins or so. I could join clubs for around a 1000 but have to travel 20/30 mins to get there. The location of my club is important to me so I can live with mats for few months.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2014)

Duckster said:



			But what would you do if all the clubs near you (including yours) used mats bar one.  But that one had the worst fairways in the area for the other 9 months of the year?

Would you move then for the sake of 3 months of hitting of damp, frozen fairways rather than a mat?
		
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A different argument completely and to be honest one that won't happen so it's academic. Not one locally have or has mats. If that scenario were to arise, it would depend on many factors including the atmosphere and craic in the club, whether they had booked tee times, practice facilities, cost, location and travelling times and what exactly the state of these "worse" fairways were really like. As I said, a scenario that won't arise but to answer the question, I'd probably look at the club not using mats and see how it really played and make a decision from there (if it met most of the other criteria I'd look for when joining)


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2014)

Soft hands said:



			I suppose it comes down to why you choose which club to be a member to as well I suppose. 

I pay 600ish for membership i can walk there in 10mins or so. I could join clubs for around a 1000 but have to travel 20/30 mins to get there. The location of my club is important to me so I can live with mats for few months.
		
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My club is only 15 minutes in the car and five minutes from Ascot station so I leave my clubs in the locker and jump in a cab after the commute home in the summer but convenience isn't my main consideration.


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## Soft hands (Dec 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			My club is only 15 minutes in the car and five minutes from Ascot station so I leave my clubs in the locker and jump in a cab after the commute home in the summer but convenience isn't my main consideration.
		
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i know that's fair enough.  For me I like to be able to go up if I have a spare hour to practice the location is important couldn't really see myself moving.


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## DaveyG (Dec 6, 2014)

This is getting abit silly now making up scenario's to force opinions. 

The fact is we are comparing in some case two different countries and expecting people to see your point of view. 

I am midlands based and even here you notice a slight difference in the climate when going down south... I worked in Scotland for 6 months a couple of years ago and had snow in the week and bbq's on the weekend when I got back... If mats are needed in your part of the world at your club fair enough... Enjoy it! But I also wouldnmt join a club which had compulsory matts... We pay good money to play this game and I expect to play the game properly. 

Im lucky enough to be at a club where it will never be a problem because the funding pumped into our place is amazing... I couldn't even tell you how many green staff are on the books looking after our three courses... Bar the odd bunker being raked early doors I find everything in good order every round


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## Duckster (Dec 6, 2014)

DaveyG said:



			This is getting abit silly now making up scenario's to force opinions. 

The fact is we are comparing in some case two different countries and expecting people to see your point of view. 

I am midlands based and even here you notice a slight difference in the climate when going down south... I worked in Scotland for 6 months a couple of years ago and had snow in the week and bbq's on the weekend when I got back... If mats are needed in your part of the world at your club fair enough... Enjoy it! But I also wouldnmt join a club which had compulsory matts... We pay good money to play this game and I expect to play the game properly. 

Im lucky enough to be at a club where it will never be a problem because the funding pumped into our place is amazing... I couldn't even tell you how many green staff are on the books looking after our three courses... Bar the odd bunker being raked early doors I find everything in good order every round 

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Not trying to force an opinion, rather trying to put in a situation that lots of courses / members face.

Personally I'd rather not join a club that didn't look after its course so it could play to it's full potential.  If that meant mats, then so be it.  In fact the use of mats, whilst being a bit disheartening for the months they are in play, could even be seen as a positive reason to actually join the club.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2014)

Duckster said:



			Not trying to force an opinion, rather trying to put in a situation that lots of courses / members face.

Personally I'd rather not join a club that didn't look after its course so it could play to it's full potential.  If that meant mats, then so be it.  In fact the use of mats, whilst being a bit disheartening for the months they are in play, could even be seen as a positive reason to actually join the club.
		
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Not sure what gives you and others the impression my club isn't looking after the course to its full potential. We simply have no issues with the quality of fairway and no need to use mats. It really is that simple. If that changed and we needed mats then I'd be off


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2014)

What was the improved drainage for ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What was the improved drainage for ?
		
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12 and 13 were the two lowest lying holes and so suffered from waterlogging more than any others. Introduced a new drainage ditch on 12 and drainage under the fairway. Run off into a ditch on 13 has let the water there run away better. Also, they went around the course and took bracken and debris from all ditches. Already standing up well after the heavy rain last weekend so money well spent.


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## Foxholer (Dec 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What was the improved drainage for ?
		
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Er....Improving drainage?


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## Duckster (Dec 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not sure what gives you and others the impression my club isn't looking after the course to its full potential. We simply have no issues with the quality of fairway and no need to use mats. It really is that simple. If that changed and we needed mats then I'd be off
		
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Have I said your club isn't looking after it's course?  Or have i just said that I would look at a club that uses mats (if required) to bring the course to it's full potential as being a bonus.

What I'm trying to get across is that in certain situations, fairway mats over winter are good.  Your not in that situation and as far as I'm aware, you've never been in that situation.


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## tsped83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Er....Improving drainage? 

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:rofl:


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## chrisd (Dec 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not sure what gives you and others the impression my club isn't looking after the course to its full potential. We simply have no issues with the quality of fairway and no need to use mats. It really is that simple. If that changed and we needed mats then I'd be off
		
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I just find it strange that a point that several of us have made that we wouldn't want to pay membership at a club who decide to introduce winter mats is debated so forcefully - it's an honest view and no matter how much you tell us we're wrong this really is a debate where everyone is entitled to their opinion and like it or not we pays our money and we takes our chance!


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## richart (Dec 6, 2014)

chrisd said:



			I just find it strange that a point that several of us have made that we wouldn't want to pay membership at a club who decide to introduce winter mats is debated so forcefully - it's an honest view and no matter how much you tell us we're wrong this really is a debate where everyone is entitled to their opinion and like it or not we pays our money and we takes our chance!
		
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 Just my opinion, but anyone that left a club because they introduced mats one year in the winter, is probably not that happy with their club in the first place. Perhaps the straw that broke the camels back ?

I have a feeling if you were a member of Sunningdale, St Georges Hill, The Berkshire, etc, and they introduced winter mats you would not pack in your membership.

Anyway I will argue this matter when we play tomorrow Chris, and you will agree with me by the end of the round.:ears:


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2014)

chrisd said:



			I just find it strange that a point that several of us have made that we wouldn't want to pay membership at a club who decide to introduce winter mats is debated so forcefully - it's an honest view and no matter how much you tell us we're wrong this really is a debate where everyone is entitled to their opinion and like it or not we pays our money and we takes our chance!
		
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I've never said anywhere on here you're wrong. I merely said my decision would be not to play there if they introduced mats. Please don't misquote or put virtual words in my mouth


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## chrisd (Dec 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I've never said anywhere on here you're wrong. I merely said my decision would be not to play there if they introduced mats. Please don't misquote or put virtual words in my mouth
		
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Sorry HJS but please re read what I wrote as everything agrees with your position on this!


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## chrisd (Dec 6, 2014)

richart said:



			Just my opinion, but anyone that left a club because they introduced mats one year in the winter, is probably not that happy with their club in the first place. Perhaps the straw that broke the camels back ?

I have a feeling if you were a member of Sunningdale, St Georges Hill, The Berkshire, etc, and they introduced winter mats you would not pack in your membership.

Anyway I will argue this matter when we play tomorrow Chris, and you will agree with me by the end of the round.:ears:
		
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One season may not be a problem bur if it was going to be every winter it probably would be


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## matt71 (Dec 7, 2014)

Fairways are now out of use for our course now, not sure how long for but think maybe a month or so at least!

not using mats of the fairway been told to move the ball to the fringe or 1st cut then take shot from there. 

Played yesterday day morning early and we had 18 temp winter greens but when the ladies winter comp started around 10 they put the flags back on the main greens!

for me I feel this is a good way to protect the course and I don't have an issue with not playing of the fairway I seldom hit them anyway lol


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## Val (Dec 7, 2014)

Some of the responses on here are hilarious, really would people leave their clubs if the introduced fairway nats for winter? Most clubs have a first cut rule so even with the rule you don't have to play off them and the first cut on many courses in the winter is as good as the fairway


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## User20205 (Dec 7, 2014)

Val said:



			Some of the responses on here are hilarious, really would people leave their clubs if the introduced fairway nats for winter? Most clubs have a first cut rule so even with the rule you don't have to play off them and the first cut on many courses in the winter is as good as the fairway
		
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Yes mate, seems a bit exteme. 

I've got a hypothetical moral conundrum. Potentially it's being mooted at my place. An option is to make mats discretionary, and leave it up to the members assessment of the ground conditions. To me this is too much of a vanilla compromise. 

To those that would leave. Do you never use the mat, irrespective of ground condition, because you don't fancy them.?


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## CMAC (Dec 7, 2014)

havent read all the responses but to those threatening to leave- why dont you just not play when its that bad they want mats used?

even when our course is open if its really soft I dont bother. I can do 3,247 more interesting things than squelch round a muddy field chasing a muddy ball.


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## backwoodsman (Dec 7, 2014)

Not going to argue this one much, but I think we who have said we'd move are being 'mis-targetted'. I think we all like our present clubs, our courses are in good nick, we currently don't use mats, and don't need to. It is simply that mats are not what we signed up for. If they became compulsory on a permanent basis (ie more than for a special occasion like an anniversary) then yes, we'd seriously think about moving to somewhere mats weren't necessary. For me, it would be a huge wrench but yes it's likely. Fortunately, t'ain't going to happen, and I ain't going to need to.


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## PhilTheFragger (Dec 7, 2014)

Val said:



			Some of the responses on here are hilarious, really would people leave their clubs if the introduced *fairway nats* for winter? Most clubs have a first cut rule so even with the rule you don't have to play off them and the first cut on many courses in the winter is as good as the fairway
		
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Hope they dont bite


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## garyinderry (Dec 7, 2014)

I would loved to have used a mat this morning.  probably shouldn't have bothered tbh!    back home now for some comfort food to cheer me up.


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## ScienceBoy (Dec 7, 2014)

louise_a said:



			We go on mats on Monday at Ellesmere, so its hitting of a mat or from the first cut for the next 3 months for me.
		
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Just enjoy the golf you have and then eventually the benefits next summer. There is always someone worse off, sad but usually true.


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 7, 2014)

Val said:



			Some of the responses on here are hilarious, really would people leave their clubs if the introduced fairway nats for winter? Most clubs have a first cut rule so even with the rule you don't have to play off them and the first cut on many courses in the winter is as good as the fairway
		
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Most clubs around your way maybe, not round here. I didn't even know such things existed until I joined this forum.


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 7, 2014)

therod said:



			Yes mate, seems a bit exteme. 

I've got a hypothetical moral conundrum. Potentially it's being mooted at my place. An option is to make mats discretionary, and leave it up to the members assessment of the ground conditions. To me this is too much of a vanilla compromise. 

To those that would leave. Do you never use the mat, irrespective of ground condition, because you don't fancy them.?
		
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The point is we don't have to and have never been asked to, most people wouldn't even know what one was and if our clubs suggested using them there would be uproar. I understand that in certain parts of the country they might be needed but I really can't see how using them around here could improve the state of the fairways the following year.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 7, 2014)

CMAC said:



			havent read all the responses but to those threatening to leave- why dont you just not play when its that bad they want mats used?

even when our course is open if its really soft I dont bother. I can do 3,247 more interesting things than squelch round a muddy field chasing a muddy ball.
		
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Having paid a four figure sum for membership, I want to ensure I get maximum value for money and that means the opportunity to play proper golf without mats even in the winter. As I've said *NO* clubs in the area have or ever had mats. It's not seen as necessary call it a consumer decision but I would leave if I was paying so much and not allowed to play golf without the aid of a mat. There are others on here that have agreed so I'm not actually as stubborn or pig headed (unless you consider the others the same) as some are suggesting


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## shagster (Dec 7, 2014)

I must agree about not wanting to use mats. 
Yes I would leave as well.
But if a course is that wet or as mentioned, has 18 temporaries, shut the course.
Also spend time and resource it working on the bad areas in the summer.
Do fairways need to be cut everyday in the season, surely better to tine and core wet areas and prepare the course.
As several have stated, in the south east, there are very few clubs under a thousand per annum and for that money you would want to play on grass. Not a problem playing off proper winter tee mats where you can push a tee in.
Again just my opinion
Shagster


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## CMAC (Dec 7, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Having paid a four figure sum for membership, I want to ensure I get maximum value for money and that means the opportunity to play proper golf without mats even in the winter. As I've said *NO* clubs in the area have or ever had mats. It's not seen as necessary call it a consumer decision but I would leave if I was paying so much and not allowed to play golf without the aid of a mat. There are others on here that have agreed *so I'm not actually as stubborn or pig headed (unless you consider the others the same) as some are suggesting*

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do you actually read replies or are you just looking for an argument! where did I say stubborn or pigheaded?

My point, which I clearly need to explain, is a muddy squelchy field that is bad enough that requires a mat is not fit to play anyway. If there are courses that do it verbatim even if its firm dry and mild thats a separate issue.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 7, 2014)

CMAC said:



			do you actually read replies or are you just looking for an argument! where did I say stubborn or pigheaded?

My point, which I clearly need to explain, is a muddy squelchy field that is bad enough that requires a mat is not fit to play anyway. If there are courses that do it verbatim even if its firm dry and mild thats a separate issue.
		
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If the course is so bad it's squelchy I'd question whether it should be open anyway and that the traffic going over such wet areas will cause as much damage. As I said (and you clearly need explaining too) is that for the cost I pay, I would leave as I don't think playing off mats represents value for money for my subs and that I'd rather find a course where I could play throughout the winter without the need for them


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## CliveW (Dec 7, 2014)

Mats are not only in use where it is wet and soft. The reason they are used is to prevent divots as the grass will not grow in cold conditions. St. Andrews is a prime example, a links built on sand with no drainage issues, but mats in use from November until March.


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## IanG (Dec 7, 2014)

We too have to use mats from just before Xmas until end of Feb each year. This is to protect the course from divots during the winter (as Clive mentioned above for St Andrews).  Our course is heavily used all year round and I have sufficient confidence in our ground staff to believe them that this is necessary. We the members wish it was not, but put up with it for the benefits it brings in Spring.


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## chrisd (Dec 7, 2014)

Val said:



			Some of the responses on here are hilarious, really would people leave their clubs if the introduced fairway nats for winter? Most clubs have a first cut rule so even with the rule you don't have to play off them and the first cut on many courses in the winter is as good as the fairway
		
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I've never heard of a club in Kent have a first cut rule anywhere or ever and equally never known one to use mats in the winter, so you can possibly understand why we feel so dead set against them, but, as it's unlikely they will ever be mooted let's not  get too worried!


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## phil78 (Dec 8, 2014)

We've just gone onto mats and tbh it's not something I've ever given much thought to, it's just one of those things.
On my old course up in Banchory they've been on mats and temporary greens for well over a month, a lot of the course doesn't get the sun on it over winter and the frost doesn't lift so this way means the members can at least play rather than just having the course sit closed.  
there are no qualifying comps but the winter stablefords run for those that want to play.  Other local courses are in a similar position. 
It's not the same as playing the full course in summer but that just isn't available at this time of year, and I'd rather be out swinging a club than sitting inside all winter.


At the same time there's no way I could afford a four figure annual subscription so if you're paying that I can understand a difference of opinion.


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## CliveW (Dec 8, 2014)

This is why we are on mats. This was the road to the course this morning and whilst the course was open, we got snowed off after four holes!


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## LinksTurf (Dec 8, 2014)

shagster said:



			As several have stated, in the south east, there are very few clubs under a thousand per annum and for that money you would want to play on grass.
Shagster
		
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I don't think this has anything to do with the membership fee. In many northern parts of the UK, the climate and very short days simply means the turf can't be repaired in the winter, no matter how many greenkeeping staff are employed. If we didn't use mats, it would take forever to get the course in condition again during the main season. I dont' like using mats, but it's better than no golf.


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## shagster (Dec 9, 2014)

Very fair point
I am used to the Argyllshire area where it is a lot warmer then the east coast and have had snow from late October to the middle of March so I appreciate where you are coming from.
The climate is a lot different down here in the South East but so are the subs.
If I was paying a lot lower fee, then I would accept mats.
We get a lot of moans about the weather down here and I Live on the Sunshine Coast and yet it's not until late May that our course starts to shape up
Shagster


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