# Baby parking



## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

Got in an argument today with a shop owner over baby parking

Went down to the local shopping centre. Last baby space is a van.. itâ€™s the flower shop owners.. dropping stuff off

So we asked if she could move as itâ€™s the last baby space
â€œDo you know how much rent I pay? I can park where I likeâ€

Well actually you canâ€™t.

So I have reported the rude lady and her inconsiderate attitude 

Who would have just left it?


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## patricks148 (Mar 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Got in an argument today with a shop owner over baby parking

Went down to the local shopping centre. Last baby space is a van.. itâ€™s the flower shop owners.. dropping stuff off

So we asked if she could move as itâ€™s the last baby space
â€œDo you know how much rent I pay? I can park where I likeâ€

Well actually you canâ€™t.

So I have reported the rude lady and her inconsiderate attitude

Who would have just left it?
		
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who did you report it to?

P&C spaces don't have the same restrictions on as Disabled, i think its illegal to park in those without the relevant blue badge, not so with P&C


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 7, 2019)

I'm with you on this. The space is there for a specific reason and deliveries is not one of them. How would that person react if you had parked in a deliveries zone and left your car there for an hour? Ignorant answer from the shop owner.

Patrick, I'm assuming Paul would report it to the shopping centre managers. The flower shop will rent the shop, may own it but actually that doesn't matter if they are in a centre still, and they will be answerable to the centre owners. They will have to adhere to certain rules within the centre, opening hours, parking etc


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## patricks148 (Mar 7, 2019)

not having a dig at the OP, but i often feel if the P&C spaces were not by the shops entrances no one would use them


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## bobmac (Mar 7, 2019)

I would have waited until she was finished or parked somewhere else.


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## DRW (Mar 7, 2019)

How did the world cope before baby parking became available in car parks. 

I would have just parked in another space and walked that extra distance, life is to short to get in an argument and waste energy on such trivial matters (in my opinion)


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

bobmac said:



			I would have waited until she was finished or parked somewhere else.
		
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We ended up waiting for 5 mins then a gym goer (in the space next no kids) went so we parked there

Reported her to the management company that she told me â€œspeak to managementâ€


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

DRW said:



			How did the world cope before baby parking became available in car parks. 

I would have just parked in another space and walked that extra distance, life is to short to get in an argument and waste energy on such trivial matters (in my opinion)
		
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Itâ€™s all about her attitude and also baby spaces are wider so you can get the door open easier to get the child out the space 

We left at 9am to get there early to get the baby space


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 7, 2019)

There is no rules governing P&C spaces , there are there as a courtesy and a nice thing - itâ€™s not illegal to park in them and if someone does there is nothing you can do about them 

Plenty of times I have gone to shops and the spaces have gone by vans etc - just find another space and use that. Itâ€™s not worth the hassle


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There is no rules governing P&C spaces , there are there as a courtesy and a nice thing - itâ€™s not illegal to park in them and if someone does there is nothing you can do about them

Plenty of times I have gone to shops and the spaces have gone by vans etc - just find another space and use that. Itâ€™s not worth the hassle
		
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If she wasnâ€™t by the van and hadnâ€™t give my wife and then myself attitude Iâ€™d of driven off

But I asked if she could move her van and she said her rent means â€œshe can park where she likesâ€

So will see what her management company think of this ðŸ‘Œ

Plus a nice little tweet to the local paper and a review on google should make her take some note

I donâ€™t even park in the baby bays if my daughter isnâ€™t with me ! Even tho I have a kid seat in the car and would look the same


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## User20204 (Mar 7, 2019)

Baby parking, never came across anything so absurd in my life. Yet another example of how ridiculous the world has become.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			Baby parking, never came across anything so absurd in my life. Yet another example of how ridiculous the world has become.
		
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Do you live in a busy town or country? Do you have small children?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 7, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			Baby parking, never came across anything so absurd in my life. Yet another example of how ridiculous the world has become.
		
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The whole idea of them is actually good - gives parents a bit more space to get kids and stuff out of the car without snacking the car next to you but they donâ€™t need to be close to the entrance and it would be better if they were away from the entrance. Milton Keynes centre has them in the middle of the car park and there is always spaces available

But they are not an entitlement and some act like that which doesnâ€™t help matters


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## Papas1982 (Mar 7, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The whole idea of them is actually good - gives parents a bit more space to get kids and stuff out of the car without snacking the car next to you but they donâ€™t need to be close to the entrance and it would be better if they were away from the entrance. Milton Keynes centre has them in the middle of the car park and there is always spaces available

But they are not an entitlement and some act like that which doesnâ€™t help matters
		
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Fully agree. No need for proximity.


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## User20204 (Mar 7, 2019)

Been there done it, absolutely no need for them, makes things even worse you're sending tweets to report folk. Get on with your own life and start minding your own business.


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## User20204 (Mar 7, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But they are not an entitlement and some act like that which doesnâ€™t help matters
		
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You make a good point, put them at the quietest park of the car park if they must have them but going about reporting folk about it is just pathetic.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			Been there done it, absolutely no need for them, makes things even worse you're sending tweets to report folk. Get on with your own life and start minding your own business.
		
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Been there when roads werenâ€™t as busy Iâ€™m guessing.. smaller cars , less busy centres

I agree with Phil that they should be away from the front of the centre


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			You make a good point, put them at the quietest park of the car park if they must have them but going about reporting folk about it is just pathetic.
		
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She asked me to complain to management so just did as asked 

How many would report poor behaviour on the course? Double standards


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## adam6177 (Mar 7, 2019)

The simple solution (which I've suggested before) is that all the parent and child spaces are put on the far side of the car park - I'm with you, all we want is to safely be able to get the kids + equipment in and out of the car and I'd be more than happy to walk the extra distance for the convenience.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 7, 2019)

If you put them at the far end of the car park then you have the problem of getting toddlers safely across a car park which could be dangerous. There is also the awkward element of pushing a push chair plus shopping. Shopping centres want to make life easier for shoppers, not harder so that is why they are near to the entrances. Seems very logical to me.


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## Dibby (Mar 7, 2019)

Already been mentioned that there is no law restricting the use of these spaces. Realistically I would do nothing.

The question is, what do you hope to achieve by complaining? Obviously, it won't undo what has happened, and how often do you visit the place? Additionally, as cynical as it is, I suspect the management care more about the leaseholder who pays them rent than an individual customer. Assuming you were not planning to visit the flower shop, I doubt the woman who owns that shop cares either. Sometimes it's better to know when there is little to be achieved and pick your battles.


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## User20204 (Mar 7, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If you put them at the far end of the car park then you have the problem of getting toddlers safely across a car park which could be dangerous. There is also the awkward element of pushing a push chair plus shopping. Shopping centres want to make life easier for shoppers, not harder so that is why they are near to the entrances. Seems very logical to me.
		
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If parents can't supervise their children well enough to get them from the car park to the shop I'd suggest they should reconsider their parenting ability and possibly focus on whether they are responsible enough to have children in the first place.


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## patricks148 (Mar 7, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			If parents can't supervise their children well enough to get them from the car park to the shop I'd suggest they should reconsider their parenting ability and possibly focus on whether they are responsible enough to have children in the first place.
		
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people are getting lazier and lazier, no one want to walk 20 yards to a shop entrance and have a sense  of entitlement they can park where they like


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			If parents can't supervise their children well enough to get them from the car park to the shop I'd suggest they should reconsider their parenting ability and possibly focus on whether they are responsible enough to have children in the first place.
		
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Lol I take it your wife raised your kids because you clearly didnâ€™t


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 7, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			If parents can't supervise their children well enough to get them from the car park to the shop I'd suggest they should reconsider their parenting ability and possibly focus on whether they are responsible enough to have children in the first place.
		
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Or we could acknowledge that car parks are dangerous places and the more we can do to reduce the potential of a toddler darting out in front of a car the better. Of course parents should be looking after their kids but this is about reduction of risk, basic risk assessment and H & S.


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## MegaSteve (Mar 7, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			If parents can't supervise their children well enough to get them from the car park to the shop I'd suggest they should reconsider their parenting ability and possibly focus on whether they are responsible enough to have children in the first place.
		
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The real problem is the tossers, behind the wheel, who don't feel the need to moderate their speed when kids/pedestrians don't have proper defined walkways available to use... Which is nearly always the case in shoppers car parks...


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## patricks148 (Mar 7, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			The real problem is the tossers, behind the wheel, who don't feel the need to moderate their speed when kids/pedestrians don't have proper defined walkways available to use... Which is nearly always the case in shoppers car parks...
		
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that shouldn't be a problem in reality all those knobs are already parked in the disabled and P&C spots


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## adam6177 (Mar 7, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If you put them at the far end of the car park then you have the problem of getting toddlers safely across a car park which could be dangerous. There is also the awkward element of pushing a push chair plus shopping. Shopping centres want to make life easier for shoppers, not harder so that is why they are near to the entrances. Seems very logical to me.
		
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The local supermarkets to me have pedestrian paths criss crossed all over the car parks, very easy to navigate around.  For me if it was a choice of having a "guaranteed" bigger space then I'd happily walk the extra distance and then just let the bone idol lazy people park at the front.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 7, 2019)

Kids safety is paramount.
Sainsburys by me the PC bays are up the main car park walkway .
The ones by the shop are always full but the ones futher away nobody uses them even when the place is full.
I think itâ€™s not common knowledge that anybody can use them.
I would never argue over a space but van owner may have nowhere else safe to offload.
All she had to do was explain and be civil most people will accept that.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 7, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			If parents can't supervise their children well enough to get them from the car park to the shop I'd suggest they should reconsider their parenting ability and possibly focus on whether they are responsible enough to have children in the first place.
		
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The problem with kids is you have no idea what they will do next.
Especially if the kids outnumber the parents.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Kids safety is paramount.
Sainsburys by me the PC bays are up the main car park walkway .
The ones by the shop are always full but the ones futher away nobody uses them even when the place is full.
I think itâ€™s not common knowledge that anybody can use them.
I would never argue over a space but van owner may have nowhere else safe to offload.
All she had to do was explain and be civil most people will accept that.
		
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According to this https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....t-and-child-parking-spaces-the-dos-and-don-ts

Itâ€™s up to the owner of the car park.. and you risk a fine so maybe sheâ€™s right that the owner says she can

However to be rude to my wife who was very polite and then rude to me when I stepped in was bang out of order. Iâ€™d get a ticket to park in a delivery bay for sure


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Nothing to do with closeness


According to this https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....t-and-child-parking-spaces-the-dos-and-don-ts

Itâ€™s up to the owner of the car park.. and you risk a fine so maybe sheâ€™s right that the owner says she can

However to be rude to my wife who was very polite and then rude to me when I stepped in was bang out of order. Iâ€™d get a ticket to park in a delivery bay for sure
		
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I agree no need for rudeness.
Maybe the car park owner should make one bay a CP and loading bay to stop any confusion.


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## patricks148 (Mar 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Nothing to do with closeness


According to this https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....t-and-child-parking-spaces-the-dos-and-don-ts

Itâ€™s up to the owner of the car park.. and you risk a fine so maybe sheâ€™s right that the owner says she can

However to be rude to my wife who was very polite and then rude to me when I stepped in was bang out of order. Iâ€™d get a ticket to park in a delivery bay for sure
		
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looks like its everything to do with laziness TBH, would you have argued about the space if it was the back end of the car park?

I'm not expecting you to reply by the way, you didn't reply to any of my other comments despite being the first to post and asked a question, i suggest you only wanted a response in your favour


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

patricks148 said:



			looks like its everything to do with laziness TBH, would you have argued about the space if it was the back end of the car park?

I'm not expecting you to reply by the way, you didn't reply to any of my other comments despite being the first to post and asked a question, i suggest you only wanted a response in your favour

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I would have tbh itâ€™s about the space to safely get my daughter in and out the car

Nothing to do with the location 

Considering we went to and from the car 3 times in 5 hours whilst we went every direction away from it so either way we would have passed the cars location


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 7, 2019)

patricks148 said:



			looks like its everything to do with laziness TBH, would you have argued about the space if it was the back end of the car park?

I'm not expecting you to reply by the way, you didn't reply to any of my other comments despite being the first to post and asked a question, i suggest you only wanted a response in your favour

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Back end of the car park wouldnâ€™t have loading bays for the shops.
If the shop owners canâ€™t empty their vans the shop would be empty.
It sounds like the parking is not what it should be as most shops offload at the rear and shop owner is the one being lazy and not using designated bays.
Still no need for being rude to customers that might be going to HER shop.


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## patricks148 (Mar 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			I would have tbh itâ€™s about the space to safely get my daughter in and out the car

Nothing to do with the location

Considering we went to and from the car 3 times in 5 hours whilst we went every direction away from it so either way we would have passed the cars location
		
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why not park further way then, i'm sure there would have been a safe space, if its anything like here, every space within a 20 yards of the doors are rammed and the further away space deserted. 

When the mother in law was alive it was our only option as we could never get in any of the disabled spaces because they were always full of lazy people and people who though it was ok to park in them because they and their children were more important and needed the space more than a disabled person


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

patricks148 said:



			why not park further way then, i'm sure there would have been a safe space, if its anything like here, every space within a 20 yards of the doors are rammed and the further away space deserted.

When the mother in law was alive it was our only option as we could never get in any of the disabled spaces because they were always full of lazy people and people who though it was ok to park in them because they and their children were more important and needed the space more than a disabled person
		
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I would never agree to anyone parking in a disable bay without a blue badge 

The car park was pretty rammed.. and the fact we saw the lady going back to her van after finishing then was just doing stuff at the stall

She could have easily moved the van and left her assistants arranging flowers that were now out of the van 

There was one further space we were trying to get in right next to her stall however the van was so long it blocked access to that aswell. So blocked 2 last baby spaces just because she couldnâ€™t park considerately


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

patricks148 said:



			why not park further way then, i'm sure there would have been a safe space, if its anything like here, every space within a 20 yards of the doors are rammed and the further away space deserted.

When the mother in law was alive it was our only option as we could never get in any of the disabled spaces because they were always full of lazy people and people who though it was ok to park in them because they and their children were more important and needed the space more than a disabled person
		
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Another example of people being selfish

We went swimming after and their are 3 family changing rooms.. have baby change and are very large to fit everyone in

2 are in use by parents, and 1 had a lady in it.. we walked in she goes oh are you coming in here? Yes as itâ€™s the family one. She gave some muttering and walked out. 

Nothing to do with it being closer to anything just has more space for people who need it. That one single lady could go and use the normal changing bits which are fine but are no good for anyone with kids as they are built for 1


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## LGC2019 (Mar 7, 2019)

People who use P&C spaces without a child are the same as people who use disabled spaces without a blue badge - lazy, disrespectful and arrogant.  The same can be said about people who park on double yellows right outside the shop (usually Range Rovers for some reason) or drivers who park over two spaces.  I wouldn't waste my time getting into an argument with any of these people as you'll never get anywhere, and will more than likely receive some sort of ignorant reply or abuse.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 7, 2019)

If you want to see real obnoxious parking. 

Come along with me on a school run. Just this today there are two people across people's drives and one numpty literally parked in the middle of the road blocking all traffic to drop their kids off (leaving car there for 5 minutes).


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## JamesR (Mar 7, 2019)

Next time why not catch a bus, that way you won't need to bother with special parking spaces


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

JamesR said:



			Next time why not catch a bus, that way you won't need to bother with special parking spaces
		
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Ever tried to get a bus with toddler, swim kit, shopping, baby bag and buggy?

Free travel or not Iâ€™ll stick with the car thanks.


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## JamesR (Mar 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Ever tried to get a bus with toddler, swim kit, shopping, baby bag and buggy?

Free travel or not Iâ€™ll stick with the car thanks.
		
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Not me, I'm not daft enough to have kids, but people have been doing it for years - my mum certainly managed to take me & my sister all over the place by bus, when my Dad was at work with the car.

Talk about first world problems


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

JamesR said:



			Not me, I'm not daft enough to have kids, but people have been doing it for years - my mum certainly managed to take me & my sister all over the place by bus, when my Dad was at work with the car.

Talk about first world problems
		
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Oh Jesus another in the old days

Fact is it isnâ€™t the old days..

I choose not the use the bus and tbh I donâ€™t get a rats arse what anyone thinks of that

Considerate parking in a car park costs nothing

Would you tell a disabled person oh mate you know itâ€™s just as easy to get a bus? Which infact it is.. and bus drivers can refuse buggies on a bus to fit wheelchairs on (which makes sense) so why would I risk leaving my daughter out in cold when she can go in a nice warm car?

Unless you have kids you have no real world experience in how things actually work when you have them so kindly keep your little opinions firmly to yourself 

ðŸ‘ðŸ‘Œ


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Oh Jesus another in the old days

Fact is it isnâ€™t the old days..

I choose not the use the bus and tbh I donâ€™t get a rats arse what anyone thinks of that

Considerate parking in a car park costs nothing

Would you tell a disabled person oh mate you know itâ€™s just as easy to get a bus? Which infact it is.. and bus drivers can refuse buggies on a bus to fit wheelchairs on (which makes sense) so why would I risk leaving my daughter out in cold when she can go in a nice warm car?

Unless you have kids you have no real world experience in how things actually work when you have them so kindly keep your little opinions firmly to yourself

ðŸ‘ðŸ‘Œ
		
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I have a child - we have to take loads of stuff with us plus buggy etc and she is very mobile - I donâ€™t seem to have many problems when I go shopping etc - have no issues if the P&C parking is gone and find myself a sensible spot somewhere and just organise myself. 

You appear to have a self entitlement about these spots that give the whole idea a bad name - itâ€™s not that hard to get everything sorted with a child  - and people are right , there are mothers that have been doing this for decades and survived without the need for slots outside the door


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I have a child - we have to take loads of stuff with us plus buggy etc and she is very mobile - I donâ€™t seem to have many problems when I go shopping etc - have no issues if the P&C parking is gone and find myself a sensible spot somewhere and just organise myself.

You appear to have a self entitlement about these spots that give the whole idea a bad name - itâ€™s not that hard to get everything sorted with a child  - and people are right , there are mothers that have been doing this for decades and survived without the need for slots outside the door
		
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No Phil not at all. I only wanted the space because I saw a van that looked ready to leave. So we asked the question and got rude reply
Otherwise we would have driven to another park and squeezed in. Done before

If a space is gone itâ€™s gone

People may have been doing this for decades but if I choose to use my car instead of a bus thatâ€™s my choice. A bus takes 30 mins each way to town or a 5 min drive

Iâ€™d rather my daughter be comfortable. She comes first

Also people seem to be under some impression that the space was right outside it wasnâ€™t it was in the middle of the car park.. itâ€™s not right outside thatâ€™s where the disable parking rightly is


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## JamesR (Mar 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Oh Jesus another in the old days

*Fact is it isnâ€™t the old days..*

I choose not the use the bus and tbh I donâ€™t get a rats arse what anyone thinks of that

Considerate parking in a car park costs nothing

Would you tell a disabled person oh mate you know itâ€™s just as easy to get a bus? Which infact it is.. and bus drivers can refuse buggies on a bus to fit wheelchairs on (which makes sense) so why would I risk leaving my daughter out in cold when she can go in a nice warm car?

Unless you have kids you have no real world experience in how things actually work when you have them so kindly keep your little opinions firmly to yourself

ðŸ‘ðŸ‘Œ
		
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True, the buses didn;t used to lower down to kerb height to make it easier to get on, and there weren't these nice big spaces for you to put the buggy - times were 'ard back then


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

JamesR said:



			True, the buses didn;t used to lower down to kerb height to make it easier to get on, and there weren't these nice big spaces for you to put the buggy - times were 'ard back then 

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There is one buggy space which if a wheelchair user comes along you have to rightly give up

Donâ€™t try and be clever because itâ€™s clearly beyond your capability ðŸ‘


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 7, 2019)

We had a similar discussion on the Random irritation thread 

https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/threads/random-irritations-of-the-day.97913/page-121#post-1923572


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			No Phil not at all. I only wanted the space because I saw a van that looked ready to leave. So we asked the question and got rude reply
Otherwise we would have driven to another park and squeezed in. Done before

If a space is gone itâ€™s gone

People may have been doing this for decades but if I choose to use my car instead of a bus thatâ€™s my choice. A bus takes 30 mins each way to town or a 5 min drive

Iâ€™d rather my daughter be comfortable. She comes first

Also people seem to be under some impression that the space was right outside it wasnâ€™t it was in the middle of the car park.. itâ€™s not right outside thatâ€™s where the disable parking rightly is
		
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You are going to get that attitude from many people in all walks of life - people expect to do whatever they want - I have seen over the year that the local supermarket spots end up being full of the â€œIrish travellerâ€ vans - so I end up parking in a spot near the trolley store so that can get everything organised. You do see kids running off from parents in the car park but it seems to be the same sort of parent who is too busy on their phone or getting their fag lit etc - I am surprised that more kids donâ€™t get run over but then more drivers prob know what the local car park in Tescos etc is like.


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## Don Barzini (Mar 7, 2019)

DRW said:



			How did the world cope before baby parking became available in car parks. 

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This argument always gets trotted out when debating this subject!

I guess the world coped the same as it did before the invention of washing machines, the internal combustion engine, fridge freezers, mobile phones, computers, the internet etc etc

i.e. the world coped fine, but life was made a little bit easier when they were introduced.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You are going to get that attitude from many people in all walks of life - people expect to do whatever they want - I have seen over the year that the local supermarket spots end up being full of the â€œIrish travellerâ€ vans - so I end up parking in a spot near the trolley store so that can get everything organised. You do see kids running off from parents in the car park but it seems to be the same sort of parent who is too busy on their phone or getting their fag lit etc - I am surprised that more kids donâ€™t get run over but then more drivers prob know what the local car park in Tescos etc is like.
		
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Yes the trolly space is one the best normally spaces available agreed. Thatâ€™s my next port of call 

Failing that an end space but donâ€™t like one that opens onto the road not pavement as I donâ€™t like getting her out car side as a, she could wiggle free or b, the door is in everyoneâ€™s way


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

Don Barzini said:



			This argument always gets trotted out when debating this subject!

I guess the world coped the same as it did before the invention of washing machines, the internal combustion engine, fridge freezers, mobile phones, computers, the internet etc etc

i.e. the world coped fine, but life was made a little bit easier when they were introduced.
		
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Normally these things come about when people who have an idea to improve stuff that made their life diffcult so someone else doesnâ€™t have to struggle like they did

They are called legends

Then you get the people who say in their day they walked 2 miles to school in the dark and they were just fine we donâ€™t need to drop our kids off etc

Basically if I didnâ€™t have it no1 should people


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## Slab (Mar 7, 2019)

Think the best solution here is to say it with flowers... Or just pop into her shop with a spray bottle of tumbleweed and..........


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## bobmac (Mar 7, 2019)

Such a shame the shop owner isn't here to give her side of the story


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

bobmac said:



			Such a shame the shop owner isn't here to give her side of the story
		
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I could post a picture of her van in the baby space if you really want bob? If thatâ€™s such a must to the story.. because it shows her in a hashed space.. which her van isnâ€™t allowed in.. would that be fair?


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## Hobbit (Mar 7, 2019)

Having had several rugrats, and can compare it to herding cats, the OP has my sympathy. However, I bet the florist hasn't spent the last few hours raising their blood pressure chomping about it. Might as well get on with enjoying life and give as much thought to the florist as they are giving you.


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## bobmac (Mar 7, 2019)

I never questioned the fact that her van was parked in that space, I just like to hear both sides of a story before I make any judgement


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

bobmac said:



			I never questioned the fact that her van was parked in that space, I just like to hear both sides of a story before I make any judgement
		
Click to expand...

Well if you want Iâ€™ll post her website you could get in touch? Find out first hand from her 

She was a lovely lady Iâ€™m sure she would love to be asked


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## LGC2019 (Mar 7, 2019)

JamesR said:



			Next time why not catch a bus, that way you won't need to bother with special parking spaces
		
Click to expand...

What a completely pointless post.


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## Dibby (Mar 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			I could post a picture of her van in the baby space if you really want bob? If thatâ€™s such a must to the story.. because it shows her in a hashed space.. which her van isnâ€™t allowed in.. would that be fair?
		
Click to expand...

We still wouldn't know her version of events, maybe she parked there because it was safer than parking in the road or somewhere else for loading. Perhaps she was considering her safety over your kids safety, just as you prioritise the opposite way.

However, I think the point Bob is making is that if 2 people have a disagreement, there are always 3 stories, Person A's version, Person B's version and the truth of the matter.


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## patricks148 (Mar 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			I would never agree to anyone parking in a disable bay without a blue badge

The car park was pretty rammed.. and the fact we saw the lady going back to her van after finishing then was just doing stuff at the stall

She could have easily moved the van and left her assistants arranging flowers that were now out of the van

There was one further space we were trying to get in right next to her stall however the van was so long it blocked access to that aswell. So blocked 2 last baby spaces just because she couldnâ€™t park considerately
		
Click to expand...

Ok , can i ask a question??

how come you didn't reply to any of the posts i quoted you in, but did the one that wasn't aimed you??


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

patricks148 said:



			Ok , can i ask a question??

how come you didn't reply to any of the posts i quoted you in, but did the one that wasn't aimed you??
		
Click to expand...

Because i was out at the time I replied to bobs and if you read the bit after it I answered your post at the same time
It wasnâ€™t personal


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## MegaSteve (Mar 7, 2019)

Well, just to be different, our newest local supermarket has designated the spaces nearest to the doorways for electric car charging points... Which remain resolutely empty and therefore no help to anyone...


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

Dibby said:



			We still wouldn't know her version of events, maybe she parked there because it was safer than parking in the road or somewhere else for loading. Perhaps she was considering her safety over your kids safety, just as you prioritise the opposite way.

However, I think the point Bob is making is that if 2 people have a disagreement, there are always 3 stories, Person A's version, Person B's version and the truth of the matter.
		
Click to expand...

I could upload my dash cam footage as it would have got the entire thing as itâ€™s alwayd filming ?


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Well, just to be different, our newest local supermarket has designated the spaces nearest to the doorways for electric car charging points... Which remain resolutely empty and therefore no help to anyone...
		
Click to expand...

All new shopping centres could solve the issues by just making the spaces have little hashed off bits either side not massively like you see in disable bays or parent bays but like you do at Costco 

Prob per row of cars you would miss out one space so say 15 cars per car park 

It however would be so much better for everyone


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## Dibby (Mar 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			I could upload my dash cam footage as it would have got the entire thing as itâ€™s alwayd filming ?
		
Click to expand...

You could, would it have an interview with her explaining why she did what she did?

You're missing the point that it's perspective. We are seeing your perspective of the event. No one doubts she was parked in a place she shouldn't be, but we don't know why, or anything that led to her making this decision. Maybe she thought you were rude pestering her. Maybe she didn't feel how she acted was rude.  

I go back to the last point of my quote, 3 stories, you think you were right, she no doubt thinks she was right, and the truth which is unknown because we only have one side of the information.


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## patricks148 (Mar 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Because i was out at the time I replied to bobs and if you read the bit after it I answered your post at the same time
It wasnâ€™t personal
		
Click to expand...

fair enough, but that isn't strictly true you relied to about 5 other post and only mine which wasn't aimed at you just reiterating about society in general after a few pages, but don't worry i don't hold a grudge


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## patricks148 (Mar 7, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Well, just to be different, our newest local supermarket has designated the spaces nearest to the doorways for electric car charging points... Which remain resolutely empty and therefore no help to anyone...
		
Click to expand...

The two new Tesco stores in Inverness have both put the P&C spaces away from the door, these are on the far end with a walkway to the store, and funnily enough you never see a car in any  of them, the ordinary spaces are closer by the way.... can't say the same for the disabled  though.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

patricks148 said:



			fair enough, but that isn't strictly true you relied to about 5 other post and only mine which wasn't aimed at you just reiterating about society in general after a few pages, but don't worry i don't hold a grudge

Click to expand...

I replied to what I noticed and in a few of them I cross answered other people , just because you didnâ€™t get a little 1 appear in your feed. This isnâ€™t Facebook you donâ€™t need likes to feel loved man ðŸ‘


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## patricks148 (Mar 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			I replied to what I noticed and in a few of them I cross answered other people , just because you didnâ€™t get a little 1 appear in your feed. This isnâ€™t Facebook you donâ€™t need likes to feel loved man ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

speak for yourself


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

Dibby said:



			You could, would it have an interview with her explaining why she did what she did?

You're missing the point that it's perspective. We are seeing your perspective of the event. No one doubts she was parked in a place she shouldn't be, but we don't know why, or anything that led to her making this decision. Maybe she thought you were rude pestering her. Maybe she didn't feel how she acted was rude. 

I go back to the last point of my quote, 3 stories, you think you were right, she no doubt thinks she was right, and the truth which is unknown because we only have one side of the information.
		
Click to expand...

In any situation if anyone upsets or speaks down to my wife they are in the wrong and Iâ€™ll have a word with them about themselves


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

patricks148 said:



			speak for yourself

Click to expand...

Make likes not war man


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 7, 2019)

Perhaps the real answer would be to make the parking spaces in car parks bigger full stop.
Whilst the pram and child spaces werent around when mine when young, I see them as a benefit and hope ALL the cars with young children use them so as to minimise the chances of having my car bashed by their cars doors being forced as open as far as they can so they can get their child out.
Just as this van driver has caused an issue, likewise the school runs where the cherubs have to be dropped right outside the school front door blocking the whole road.......
We all have to give and take, lifes too short


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## Bazzatron (Mar 7, 2019)

I would've been annoyed as you were but not said a word, far too polite (cowardly).

We have people who park in disabled spaces at our gym, imagine getting to the gym as someone who needs a space and not being able to park. Selfish, just so their pristine cars don't get scratched, same as those who park across two bays in car parks.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			I would've been annoyed as you were but not said a word, far too polite (cowardly).

We have people who park in disabled spaces at our gym, imagine getting to the gym as someone who needs a space and not being able to park. Selfish, just so their pristine cars don't get scratched, same as those who park across two bays in car parks.
		
Click to expand...

I have to admit I always used to let it slide but since having a child even when sheâ€™s not with me if I see someone misusing a baby space I will most likely tell them because you see the poor mothers struggling in normal spaces because of mr I got a nice car I donâ€™t want anyone near it


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Perhaps the real answer would be to make the parking spaces in car parks bigger full stop.
Whilst the pram and child spaces werent around when mine when young, I see them as a benefit and hope ALL the cars with young children use them so as to minimise the chances of having my car bashed by their cars doors being forced as open as far as they can so they can get their child out.
Just as this van driver has caused an issue, likewise the school runs where the cherubs have to be dropped right outside the school front door blocking the whole road.......
We all have to give and take, lifes too short

Click to expand...

I agree as I said before all car parks should be like Costco


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## backwoodsman (Mar 7, 2019)

As someone who
a. Doesn't have kids
b. Doesn't drive to the supermarket, and
c. Only walks to the supermarket if I really, really, have to
and therefore officially fall into the "don't give a toss either way" category, I have to say that was one heck of a thread ....


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

backwoodsman said:



			As someone who
a. Doesn't have kids
b. Doesn't drive to the supermarket, and
c. Only walks to the supermarket if I really, really, have to
and therefore officially fall into the "don't give a toss either way" category, I have to say that was one heck of a thread .... 

Click to expand...

Least your not a dick with your views about it lol


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## Imurg (Mar 7, 2019)

At the end of the day anyone parking in an area designated, lawfully or not, to another section of society is simply being an inconsiderate jerk
But it should come as no surprise.
Consideration for others comes a long way down on most people's lists.
Our local Tesco has put up huge No Parking signs along a section close to the shop to keep it clear so people don't get slaughtered by the racing drivers who think 30 is a satisfactory speed for a packed car par.
Every time I go there I see at least 3 cars parked under these signs but nobody seems to give a damn so it will continue.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

Imurg said:



			At the end of the day anyone parking in an area designated, lawfully or not, to another section of society is simply being an inconsiderate jerk
But it should come as no surprise.
Consideration for others comes a long way down on most people's lists.
Our local Tesco has put up huge No Parking signs along a section close to the shop to keep it clear so people don't get slaughtered by the racing drivers who think 30 is a satisfactory speed for a packed car par.
Every time I go there I see at least 3 cars parked under these signs but nobody seems to give a damn so it will continue.
		
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Even at work we get people like this

We are not allowed to park in the inner compound of the bunker. Itâ€™s designed so if we are on fire a fire engine can drive around the building and put the fire out whilst we remain in the inner core and the railway doesnâ€™t stop

We are allowed to drop off stuff like when we do shopping for meAls to cook or bring in milk for the week but then must move to the car park 

One guy loves to park his classic merc there because he doesnâ€™t want anyone dinging it.. 

Hopefully a fire engine will come and destroy it soon


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## User20204 (Mar 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			I could upload my dash cam footage as it would have got the entire thing as itâ€™s alwayd filming ?
		
Click to expand...


That just confirms to me everything if I didn't already know.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			That just confirms to me everything if I didn't already know.
		
Click to expand...

Glad to be of assistance (MOD EDIT)  ðŸ‘Œ


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## MegaSteve (Mar 7, 2019)

Wonder what folk feel about the over 65 spaces that are available to us oldies in these parts... Think I could foresee some serious meltdowns for the selfish amongst us....


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## patricks148 (Mar 7, 2019)

i've just been past our local leisure centre, out the front it has 10 disabled bays, a large area for emergency vehicle access that is cross hatched no parking at any time  and a long drop of pick up area which is double yellow lines.

9 of the disabled spaces in use with either 4x4s , BMWs  or Audis  of which not one has a blue badge on display, the E V section had 2 cars parked across it with no one in them and the whole drop off area was also full with no one in any of the cars .


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## bobmac (Mar 7, 2019)

patricks148 said:



			i've just been past our local leisure centre, out the front it has 10 disabled bays, a large area for emergency vehicle access that is cross hatched no parking at any time  and a long drop of pick up area which is double yellow lines.

9 of the disabled spaces in use with either 4x4s , BMWs  or Audis  of which not one has a blue badge on display, the E V section had 2 cars parked across it with no one in them and the whole drop off area was also full with no one in any of the cars .
		
Click to expand...

Hah......nothing


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 7, 2019)

But what age should the child be before the parents cease to be eligible to use these spots?

Personally I would not be expecting parents to  be using preferential spots once the child is 4 or 5 years old.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

bobmac said:



			Hah......nothing


View attachment 26735

Click to expand...

But bob what about his side of the story? Maybe he was turning around and broke down.. hard to judge ðŸ˜‚


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			But what age should the child be before the parents cease to be eligible to use these spots?

Personally I would not be expecting parents to  be using preferential spots once the child is 4 or 5 years old.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s 12 is the Age


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Itâ€™s 12 is the Age
		
Click to expand...

That is completely ridiculous. 

Absolutely no need beyond the age of 5.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			That is completely ridiculous.

Absolutely no need beyond the age of 5.
		
Click to expand...

Well no.. 12 is the age they stop requiring child seats (providing their not of a certain height) so itâ€™s to do with getting them out as they have made it easier

Oh wait is that another new thing that is why things have been added to make things easier from the past? Need their spaces to deal with safety features....... (not aimed at you someone else)


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Well no.. 12 is the age they stop requiring child seats (providing their not of a certain height) so itâ€™s to do with getting them out as they have made it easier

Oh wait is that another new thing that is why things have been added to make things easier from the past? Need their spaces to deal with safety features....... (not aimed at you someone else)
		
Click to expand...

At the age of 5 children are quite capable of undoing their own safety restraints and need no help getting out of the car beyond a responsible person attending the door.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			At the age of 5 children are quite capable of undoing their own safety restraints and need no help getting out of the car beyond a responsible person attending the door.
		
Click to expand...

Not all children are tho

And more than one child may be in the car 

I agree 12 is high id go for 5 , wouldnâ€™t help tho

This morning proved it.. delivery then next to her a gym goer and when I left an elderly man with no kids doing his shopping 

All shouldnâ€™t be using the spaces 

Had a go at someone once who parked using his wifeâ€™s blue badge in a kids space when a disabled space was just 2 bays down. I said you know that this isnâ€™t s disable space he said yes , I said can you see a free disabled space down there? Yes..

Well park there then because a parent canâ€™t park in that space and your denying someone a space who could need it whilst you have the right to park there donâ€™t be selfish.


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## User20204 (Mar 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Had a go at someone once who parked using his wifeâ€™s blue badge
		
Click to expand...

You really do sound like a fun guy to be around


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			You really do sound like a fun guy to be around 

Click to expand...

Lucky your opinion is worth about as much as having a return ticket on the titantic ðŸ‘Œ


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## User20204 (Mar 7, 2019)

Bet you're chairman on the local neighbourhood watch scheme as well


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			Bet you're chairman on the local neighbourhood watch scheme as well 

Click to expand...

I must alert the local village I have found their missing idiot ðŸ‘Œ


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## User20204 (Mar 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			I must alert the local village I have found their missing idiot ðŸ‘Œ
		
Click to expand...

So my opinion is worth a return ticket on the titanic and now you refer me to the village idiot, pretty classy stuff from what seems to be the worlds biggest busy body. 

If you don't like folks replies, probably best not ask the question in the first place rather than resort to personal abuse don't you think.


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## Jamesbrown (Mar 7, 2019)

I park in Tesco parent and child spaces near me, theyâ€™re next to the door. Theyâ€™re convenient to drive into rather than negotiatiating the tight car park. 
But if I go Asda or Morrisonâ€™s I donâ€™t use them as they are further away. 

I donâ€™t feel guilty, itâ€™s not against the law. Iâ€™m just lazy! So lazy in fact that I drive to Tesco despite it taking the same amount of time to walk it!


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## SocketRocket (Mar 7, 2019)

About time they had some Lard Arse spaces, they do need more space to get out the car.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			So my opinion is worth a return ticket on the titanic and now you refer me to the village idiot, pretty classy stuff from what seems to be the worlds biggest busy body.

If you don't like folks replies, probably best not ask the question in the first place rather than resort to personal abuse don't you think.
		
Click to expand...




HappyHacker1 said:



			So my opinion is worth a return ticket on the titanic and now you refer me to the village idiot, pretty classy stuff from what seems to be the worlds biggest busy body.

If you don't like folks replies, probably best not ask the question in the first place rather than resort to personal abuse don't you think.
		
Click to expand...

I do love when someone dishes it out but canâ€™t take it back

Grow a back bone then do one ðŸ‘Œ


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## User20204 (Mar 7, 2019)




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## williamalex1 (Mar 7, 2019)

Fair enough MAYBE having disabled spaces near the entrance, but the same disabled somehow manage around inside the store   .

Parent and child spaces with wide access could be anywhere, no need to be near the entrance, if you're not capable of taking care of your children in a car park, how do you manage when in a town centre or crossing a main road.
More parking spaces near the entrance for us oldies, don't want us to be late for the golf farting about looking for spaces .


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## Wolf (Mar 7, 2019)

What a thoroughly interesting  thread, it has rants, valid points, insults and people being hugely overly sensitive about a parking space.

The woman parked in a space designed for a family, yet I can't work out it the OP is more annoyed at his wife being spoken to in a bad manner or the at the parking space. From all the subsequent rants, insults and dismissing of others opinions I'm assuming it's less about the wife and more about PC parking spaces, which when you consider it in grand scheme of things it's pretty bloody trivial, especially when you consider the van driver didn't actually commit any crime, break any rules all they did really by parking there was show a little less courtesy than others.

Imo PC spaces don't need to exist, yes they're a little wider in some cases but not all, my local asda their normal size spaces just closer to the doors. As a parent simply find a space somewhere in a car park you deem suitable and then take the necessary care to get the child from the car and take responsibility and care for them to get to shop safely as you would in any other situation


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## User20204 (Mar 7, 2019)

I suspect he's more upset that some, possibly most, in this topic didn't fully jump on his high horse with him.


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## williamalex1 (Mar 7, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			I suspect he's more upset that some, possibly most, in this topic didn't fully jump on his high horse with him.
		
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Neigh horses allowed unless they're handicapped


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## GB72 (Mar 8, 2019)

Wider parking spaces in general need to exist. Modern cars, suvs, vans, pickup trucks etc do not fit comfortably in standard spaces, even 2 door cars struggle. Local sainsburys has wider bays, suddenly no need for parent and child spaces. They still exist but are normally empty.


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## bluewolf (Mar 8, 2019)

I think that we can all agree that the only thing this thread proves beyond any doubt whatsoever is that some people are just pointless, mouth breathing, stick chasing dicks (you can work out for yourselves who they are). 

FWIW, if they designate spaces for P&C (which were a godsend when I was out shopping with 2 very young kids), disabled,pensioners, fat people etc, then I'll just park somewhere else. It's not rocket science.


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## BrianM (Mar 8, 2019)

They are handy for parking with the 4 x 4, Iâ€™ve got 2 young kids as well though ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


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## pauljames87 (Mar 8, 2019)

Got a reply this morning off the people who own the shopping centre 

Hi Paul  weâ€™re so sorry to hear about this. We will speak to our tenant to ensure this doesnâ€™t happen again. Thank you, The Brewery Team.


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## FAB90 (Mar 8, 2019)

Is it really that much of an issue it's not difficult to get kids in and out a car in a normal space. If there is a free p&c space great use it if not big deal get on with you're day without stressing out about it!


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## bobmac (Mar 8, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Got a reply this morning off the people who own the shopping centre

Hi Paul  weâ€™re so sorry to hear about this. We will speak to our tenant to ensure this doesnâ€™t happen again. Thank you, The Brewery Team.
		
Click to expand...

Feel better now?


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## pauljames87 (Mar 8, 2019)

bobmac said:



			Feel better now?
		
Click to expand...

Indeed, Bob would you have a word with someone parking in the captains bay when heâ€™s not there?


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## bobmac (Mar 8, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Indeed, Bob would you have a word with someone parking in the captains bay when heâ€™s not there?
		
Click to expand...

No, it's none of my business.
However, about 30 years ago someone had a go at me for parking in the captains parking space.
He felt a bit silly when I explained that the Captain was my dad and I was taking him home.
2 sides to every story.
I just hope that lady who was just trying to make a living doesn't lose her license/job/livelihood and that of her staff just because you couldn't get your special parking space.


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## ger147 (Mar 8, 2019)

I thought they were called Parent & Child spaces rather than Baby spaces?

I have to admit to parking in one some years back just to noise my mum up.  She was a tad embarrassed but at that time there was a sign up saying they were parent & child spaces so technically I wasn't breaking any rules...


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 8, 2019)

ger147 said:



			I thought they were called Parent & Child spaces rather than Baby spaces?

I have to admit to parking in one some years back just to noise my mum up.  She was a tad embarrassed but at that time there was a sign up saying they were parent & child spaces so technically I wasn't breaking any rules...
		
Click to expand...

Sheâ€™s your parent your her child!
I wonder if there is an age limit.

In my barbers it was Â£10 for cut dad and lad .
A guy turned up with his 60yr old dad he was about 40 ish the barber just laughed.


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## IanM (Mar 8, 2019)

I havent read the whole threds but.....

Babies are parking cars now? Wow!

The car parking bit is another manifestastion of where folk show a lack of consideration for others!  (see slow play threads!  )


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## Kellfire (Mar 8, 2019)

Special car parking spots just because you've got a kid? Pffft.

What next? Benefits just for having children?!?!?!?!?!?!


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 8, 2019)

bobmac said:



			No, it's none of my business.
However, about 30 years ago someone had a go at me for parking in the captains parking space.
He felt a bit silly when I explained that the Captain was my dad and I was taking him home.
2 sides to every story.
I just hope that lady who was just trying to make a living doesn't lose her license/job/livelihood and that of her staff just because you couldn't get your special parking space.
		
Click to expand...

Had one with our Secretary, guy asked him a question on the course his answer was â€œ I am the secretary 9/5 mon to fri.â€ Come see me thenâ€.
So the next Saturday he parked in his parking space.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 8, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			About time they had some Lard Arse spaces, they do need more space to get out the car.
		
Click to expand...

You would get lazy skinny people parking in them.


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## User20204 (Mar 8, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			What next? Benefits just for having children?!?!?!?!?!?!
		
Click to expand...

I laughed put loud at that I did.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 8, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			I laughed put loud at that I did.
		
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Simple things please simple minds I guess


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## Jamesbrown (Mar 8, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Got a reply this morning off the people who own the shopping centre

Hi Paul  weâ€™re so sorry to hear about this. We will speak to our tenant to ensure this doesnâ€™t happen again. Thank you, The Brewery Team.
		
Click to expand...

As an ex CS agent I can tell you that translates to â€œbore offâ€.


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## SocketRocket (Mar 8, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			You would get lazy skinny people parking in them.
		
Click to expand...

True ðŸ¤”


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## pauljames87 (Mar 8, 2019)

Jamesbrown said:



			As an ex CS agent I can tell you that translates to â€œbore offâ€.
		
Click to expand...

Considering the reply was on twitter they could do nothing but many people are aware of the persons actions so ðŸ‘


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## User20204 (Mar 8, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Considering the reply was on twitter they could do nothing but many people are aware of the persons actions so ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

You really need to go back and read over your replies. You come across as bitter and angry and want heads to roll, over some poxy parking spot. You get all personal because some don't agree with you and yet you are still biting away.Let it go, get over it, in the grand scheme of life, it really is a nothing issue but by the sounds of you, you want someone, probably anyone to hang for it.

Someone parked in the p&c space, so what.


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## Wolf (Mar 8, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			You really need to go back and read over your replies. You come across as bitter and angry and want heads to roll, over some poxy parking spot. You get all personal because some don't agree with you and yet you are still biting away.Let it go, get over it, in the grand scheme of life, it really is a nothing issue but by the sounds of you, you want someone, probably anyone to hang for it.

Someone parked in the p&c space, so what.
		
Click to expand...

Some people have nothing better to do than be annoyed at things for the sake of being annoyed they then get annoyed at people that don't find the same irrelevant issues annoying... Go Figure.. 

I agree it's a parking space, find another one get the kid out the car and move on....


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## pauljames87 (Mar 8, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			You really need to go back and read over your replies. You come across as bitter and angry and want heads to roll, over some poxy parking spot. You get all personal because some don't agree with you and yet you are still biting away.Let it go, get over it, in the grand scheme of life, it really is a nothing issue but by the sounds of you, you want someone, probably anyone to hang for it.

Someone parked in the p&c space, so what.
		
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See where was this reason and sensibility yesterday? Rather than trying to be a smart arse with little witty comments? Exactly.. trying to play it out like your not a complete tool ðŸ‘Œ


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## User20204 (Mar 8, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			See where was this reason and sensibility yesterday? Rather than trying to be a smart arse with little witty comments? Exactly.. trying to play it out like your not a complete tool ðŸ‘Œ
		
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You just can't help yourself can you, again, getting personal. As for my comments, they were based totally on your responses to a nothing incident. You got all high and mighty over some broad parking in what you believed to be your personal parking spot, not only that, you went and reported it, and so proud of that, you then posted up the response that was given to you. 

The fact is, you came on here hopping mad expecting everyone to back you, they didn't and you've just exposed yourself to the type of character you are, as per my replies yesterday. 

By all means carry on getting personal with your replies, I'm out


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## Wolf (Mar 8, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			See where was this reason and sensibility yesterday? Rather than trying to be a smart arse with little witty comments? Exactly.. trying to play it out like your not a complete tool ðŸ‘Œ
		
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Or perhaps you were being over sensitive to replies you didn't like or didn't fit your own opinion on a trivial matter of a parking space.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 8, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			You just can't help yourself can you, again, getting personal. As for my comments, they were based totally on your responses to a nothing incident. You got all high and mighty over some broad parking in what you believed to be your personal parking spot, not only that, you went and reported it, and so proud of that, you then posted up the response that was given to you.

The fact is, you came on here hopping mad expecting everyone to back you, they didn't and you've just exposed yourself to the type of character you are, as per my replies yesterday.

By all means carry on getting personal with your replies, I'm out 

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Or maybe take your own advice and read your own replies when you tried to be clever.. saying how in your day you didnâ€™t need this and that.. adding nothing to the thread other than for your own assumement in your sad little world 

Have a great weekend... ðŸ‘


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## pauljames87 (Mar 8, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Or perhaps you were being over sensitive to replies you didn't like or didn't fit your own opinion on a trivial matter of a parking space.
		
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No wolf. Just donâ€™t appreciate nothing comments from people who think because they didnâ€™t have these modern conveniences when they were younger thay nobody should and the world is worse for it.


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## Wolf (Mar 8, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			No wolf. Just donâ€™t appreciate nothing comments from people who think because they didnâ€™t have these modern conveniences when they were younger thay nobody should and the world is worse for it.
		
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Does that mean you have to insult them then because you disagree with their comments, I believe that's the issue here that by doing that you take away from your initial point seem as though your ranting and also lose any sort of support from people. 

I actually happen to agree that there is no need for any for of PC spaces, and don't think the world is better for having them, it's not worse but it certainly not better.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 8, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Does that mean you have to insult them then because you disagree with their comments, I believe that's the issue here that by doing that you take away from your initial point seem as though your ranting and also lose any sort of support from people.

I actually happen to agree that there is no need for any for of PC spaces, and don't think the world is better for having them, it's not worse but it certainly not better.
		
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Do you live in a busy town? Is your car normal size? Because the back doors donâ€™t open wide enough to get young kids out of seats .. end up driving around finding end spaces.. or next to trolly bays.. thatâ€™s why they are so good

As said previous.. if all car parks were made like Costco with half foot gaps either side of the line it wouldnâ€™t be an issue

As for â€œinsultsâ€ he is clearly a troll. Got no time for them.


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## Wolf (Mar 8, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Do you live in a busy town? Is your car normal size? Because the back doors donâ€™t open wide enough to get young kids out of seats .. end up driving around finding end spaces.. or next to trolly bays.. thatâ€™s why they are so good

As said previous.. if all car parks were made like Costco with half foot gaps either side of the line it wouldnâ€™t be an issue

As for â€œinsultsâ€ he is clearly a troll. Got no time for them.
		
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I live in a busy city, I have 6 kids and can still park in normal size spaces with a car slightly larger than normal size , get them out to the shops without a problem.

Yes bigger spaces will make things easier for everyone but that doesn't mean we as parents have a right to a larger space than anyone else. My mum could do with a larger space due to her ailments but isn't registered disable so like the rest of us goes to a normal space and manages fine. There are arguments in all cases for more convenience but doesn't mean there should a divine right for a parent over anyone else.

A troll in your opinion not others,. Imo the insults show you in a poorer light than the other fella and as I say it detracts from your argument and comes across bitter especially when the thread is based on a rant. End of day though it's a forum if you don't want someone else's opinion there is no need to insult, simply question whether you want to post something open to differing opinions or hit the ignore button.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 8, 2019)

Wolf said:



			I live in a busy city, I have 6 kids and can still park in normal size spaces with a car slightly larger than normal size , get them out to the shops without a problem.

Yes bigger spaces will make things easier for everyone but that doesn't mean we as parents have a right to a larger space than anyone else. My mum could do with a larger space due to her ailments but isn't registered disable so like the rest of us goes to a normal space and manages fine. There are arguments in all cases for more convenience but doesn't mean there should a divine right for a parent over anyone else.

A troll in your opinion not others,. Imo the insults show you in a poorer light than the other fella and as I say it detracts from your argument and comes across bitter especially when the thread is based on a rant. End of day though it's a forum if you don't want someone else's opinion there is no need to insult, simply question whether you want to post something open to differing opinions or hit the ignore button.
		
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Was never saying it was a right to have a space but when they are occupied by someone who has no right being there what so ever and is denying others who could find them useful doesnâ€™t sit right. So I would always challenge or say something to someone misusing a space even when itâ€™s not for me. Like when someone parks across 2 spaces in a packed car park for example. Very selfish.


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## Wolf (Mar 8, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Was never saying it was a right to have a space but when they are occupied by someone who has no right being there what so ever and is denying others who could find them useful doesnâ€™t sit right. So I would always challenge or say something to someone misusing a space even when itâ€™s not for me. Like when someone parks across 2 spaces in a packed car park for example. Very selfish.
		
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This is the issue though isn't it, you're admitting  there is no right to it but in the next breath saying it someone is misusing it, if there is no right and no obligation around these spaces regarding rules or laws then the space isn't being misused at all. Yes it's slightly irritating but no rule is being broken whether you feel that selfish or not is irrelevant there's no breach of anything occurred other than someone maybe being a little less considerate. It just seems you've taken this trivial matter to much to heart that it's caused a scene in the car park, led to you insulting people on here and still seemingly wound up about it 24hrs later. It's a parking space nothing more and nothing less.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 8, 2019)

Wolf said:



			This is the issue though isn't it, you're admitting  there is no right to it but in the next breath saying it someone is misusing it, if there is no right and no obligation around these spaces regarding rules or laws then the space isn't being misused at all. Yes it's slightly irritating but no rule is being broken whether you feel that selfish or not is irrelevant there's no breach of anything occurred other than someone maybe being a little less considerate. It just seems you've taken this trivial matter to much to heart that it's caused a scene in the car park, led to you insulting people on here and still seemingly wound up about it 24hrs later. It's a parking space nothing more and nothing less.
		
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Iâ€™m not wound up about it 24 hours later Iâ€™m simply replying to posts

There is rules regarding these spaces as I posted previous as itâ€™s private land and is enforceable by means of a parking fine if you are seen to misuse it by a parking attendant 

I posted a link to that yesterday


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## pauljames87 (Mar 8, 2019)

Wolf said:



			This is the issue though isn't it, you're admitting  there is no right to it but in the next breath saying it someone is misusing it, if there is no right and no obligation around these spaces regarding rules or laws then the space isn't being misused at all. Yes it's slightly irritating but no rule is being broken whether you feel that selfish or not is irrelevant there's no breach of anything occurred other than someone maybe being a little less considerate. It just seems you've taken this trivial matter to much to heart that it's caused a scene in the car park, led to you insulting people on here and still seemingly wound up about it 24hrs later. It's a parking space nothing more and nothing less.
		
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https://www.motherandbaby.co.uk/fam...t-and-child-parking-spaces-the-dos-and-don-ts


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## robinthehood (Mar 8, 2019)

The large p&c spaces are great,  I can park my M5 without so much risk of it getting scratched.


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## User20204 (Mar 8, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Iâ€™m simply replying to posts
		
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You're not "simply" replying to posts though are you ? You're relying with insults, your replying to posts that aren't even directed at you, with insults and your reply about someone parking in the captains spot says it all, it's nothing to do with you. 

Do you go about reporting cars parked on double yellow lines ? I suspect you do. I bet you also report cars parked outside your house on the street.  

What is incredible is you just don't see how you are coming across, despite, not me but another poster telling you, yet I'm the troll and you're Mister Goody two Shoes.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 8, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			You're not "simply" replying to posts though are you ? You're relying with insults, your replying to posts that aren't even directed at you, with insults and your reply about someone parking in the captains spot says it all, it's nothing to do with you.

Do you go about reporting cars parked on double yellow lines ? I suspect you do. I bet you also report cars parked outside your house on the street. 

What is incredible is you just don't see how you are coming across, despite, not me but another poster telling you, yet I'm the troll and you're Mister Goody two Shoes.
		
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Only one person gets the insults tho.. thought you were done? Shame...


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## Wolf (Mar 8, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



https://www.motherandbaby.co.uk/fam...t-and-child-parking-spaces-the-dos-and-don-ts

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Again so what it's private land but not a law so again it comes down to whether the companies will actually uphold these rules and you have to prove it. In your case you saw the woman but how many times are these spaces used by non parents does it wind you up everytime even when you may know some of those spaces you want are used but you can't prove it.  It's a pointless rule if they decide to sign post it because it can't be accurately followed through on without witnesses, and your link alone clearly states nothing may be done.


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## User20204 (Mar 8, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Only one person gets the insults tho.. thought you were done? Shame...
		
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Another cracking reply, well done, proud of you.


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## Wolf (Mar 8, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Only one person gets the insults tho.. thought you were done? Shame...
		
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Hence the reason you seem like the troll not the person your aiming insults at because there are many others even myself disagreeing with you yet you point out one person's opinion and insult them. 

I'm not taking sides here and saying you are a troll but you need take a step back and look at what you have been posting to replies before you call people out for being a troll, you can't insult people then state they're the problem when you went down that road first, it makes your argument irrelevant, makes you come across in ways I'm sure you don't wish to be seen and stops the thread having the impact you wanted.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 8, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Again so what it's private land but not a law so again it comes down to whether the companies will actually uphold these rules and you have to prove it. In your case you saw the woman but how many times are these spaces used by non parents does it wind you up everytime even when you may know some of those spaces you want are used but you can't prove it.  It's a pointless rule if they decide to sign post it because it can't be accurately followed through on without witnesses, and your link alone clearly states nothing may be done.
		
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Like I said previous anytime I see someone using them that clearly shouldnâ€™t.. I will say something as will most of the baby parents I know because they know how frustrating it is when some selfish person has parked in one just to save a walk and they have to struggle to get their child out


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## pauljames87 (Mar 8, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Hence the reason you seem like the troll not the person your aiming insults at because there are many others even myself disagreeing with you yet you point out one person's opinion and insult them.

I'm not taking sides here and saying you are a troll but you need take a step back and look at what you have been posting to replies before you call people out for being a troll, you can't insult people then state they're the problem when you went down that road first, it makes your argument irrelevant, makes you come across in ways I'm sure you don't wish to be seen and stops the thread having the impact you wanted.
		
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I only insult the troll because of the way he started on the thread. Clearly trolling . 

I havenâ€™t insulted you or others who have come up with reasoned and thought out points and counter arguments.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 8, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Hence the reason you seem like the troll not the person your aiming insults at because there are many others even myself disagreeing with you yet you point out one person's opinion and insult them.

I'm not taking sides here and saying you are a troll but you need take a step back and look at what you have been posting to replies before you call people out for being a troll, you can't insult people then state they're the problem when you went down that road first, it makes your argument irrelevant, makes you come across in ways I'm sure you don't wish to be seen and stops the thread having the impact you wanted.
		
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I suggest you re read posts 11.15.16 and 22 

Clearly on the wind up


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## chrisd (Mar 8, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Iâ€™m not wound up about it 24 hours later Iâ€™m simply replying to posts

There is rules regarding these spaces as I posted previous as itâ€™s private land and is enforceable by means of a parking fine if you are seen to misuse it by a parking attendant 

I posted a link to that yesterday
		
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Paul, if it's a private parking area (ie not council owned) the owners cannot 'fine' anyone. What they issue is an 'invoice' usually claiming a 'breach of contract'. I've dealt with several of these for people and never once paid one. They are often wrongly issued or do not hold up in law and road signs and markings in private car parks have no meaning either really other than a request to park as the owners wish. Yes, they may issue an invoice but I'd 100% challenge it and wouldn't reckon to pay.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 8, 2019)

chrisd said:



			Paul, if it's a private parking area (ie not council owned) the owners cannot 'fine' anyone. What they issue is an 'invoice' usually claiming a 'breach of contract'. I've dealt with several of these for people and never once paid one. They are often wrongly issued or do not hold up in law and road signs and markings in private car parks have no meaning either really other than a request to park as the owners wish. Yes, they may issue an invoice but I'd 100% challenge it and wouldn't reckon to pay.
		
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Sounds about right. However the fact is itâ€™s clearly against the rules and if Iâ€™m not out with my daughter I will stick to the rules and not use the spaces so that someone else can use them how they are suppose to be used 

Donâ€™t see the issue with people being more considerate and leaving things for people that actually need them


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## Wolf (Mar 8, 2019)

I've read them all, not trolling at all that's his opinion. You see them as trolling as it's your thread and you don't like the fact he has a differing opinion that is frankly polar opposite to your own. It only gets heated when you start insulting him. 

Sorry Paul you can't claim innocence here or call him out as a troll, yes perhaps some of what he says is controversial to you and perhaps as a parent your taking it personally but fact is he is right parents should take responsibility for their child and not rely on PC spaces to do it for them. 

You've lost the thread entirely now because your rant has turned in to nothing more than a personal issue with another poster. For that alone there really is no point anyone debating this further as its not a debate at all because you refuse to accept others have differing opinions and don't believe your right to be so overly offended.


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## User20204 (Mar 8, 2019)

O


pauljames87 said:



			Iâ€™m not wound up about it
		
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You are and you just don't like the tone of my replies because I think your reporting of it was pathetic. You're so wound up about it your trying to use me as a wind up because I completely disagree with you on this. So just for clarification, I still think these bays are absurd, I still think you or anyone else for that matter reporting it is pathetic and I still think you should just mind your own business and be on your merry way going about your business.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 8, 2019)

Wolf said:



			I've read them all, not trolling at all that's his opinion. You see them as trolling as it's your thread and you don't like the fact he has a differing opinion that is frankly polar opposite to your own. It only gets heated when you start insulting him.

Sorry Paul you can't claim innocence here or call him out as a troll, yes perhaps some of what he says is controversial to you and perhaps as a parent your taking it personally but fact is he is right parents should take responsibility for their child and not rely on PC spaces to do it for them.

You've lost the thread entirely now because your rant has turned in to nothing more than a personal issue with another poster. For that alone there really is no point anyone debating this further as its not a debate at all because you refuse to accept others have differing opinions and don't believe your right to be so overly offended.
		
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Well we will have to agree to disagree then. The posts as i read them were to add nothing but a wind up to the thread . Some others have posted little jokes but were clearly just humour rather than trying to just belittle the situation. However we will not agree on this so will say nothing further here

Yesterday I was very cross about the situation and this morning getting a reply saying it will be dealt with to me was the end of it and I havenâ€™t given it a second thought outside of this thread.

I will still continue to say to people who misuse them because thatâ€™s my opinion that they shouldnâ€™t be misused . 

Anyways have a good weekend and thanks for the debate.


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## chrisd (Mar 8, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Sounds about right. However the fact is itâ€™s clearly against the rules and if Iâ€™m not out with my daughter I will stick to the rules and not use the spaces so that someone else can use them how they are suppose to be used 

Donâ€™t see the issue with people being more considerate and leaving things for people that actually need them
		
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I'm not in disagreement Paul, I just wanted to highlight that it's a civil matter and that any ticket on the windscreen is simply an invoice and I, for one, would never pay. I do, however, try to be reasonable about my parking habits but I certainly would not bother to start arguing 'rules' when they are not enforceable and dobbing people in.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 8, 2019)

chrisd said:



			I'm not in disagreement Paul, I just wanted to highlight that it's a civil matter and that any ticket on the windscreen is simply an invoice and I, for one, would never pay. I do, however, try to be reasonable about my parking habits but I certainly would not bother to start arguing 'rules' when they are not enforceable and dobbing people in.
		
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I do think however there is a massive case of irony involved here how people wouldnâ€™t report something for a misuse of rules (which arenâ€™t law just rules)

However if it came to a round of golf (a game) we expect everyone to stick to the rules if we agree with them or not and would report people who broke them


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## MegaSteve (Mar 8, 2019)

chrisd said:



			Paul, if it's a private parking area (ie not council owned) the owners cannot 'fine' anyone. What they issue is an 'invoice' usually claiming a 'breach of contract'. I've dealt with several of these for people and never once paid one. They are often wrongly issued or do not hold up in law and road signs and markings in private car parks have no meaning either really other than a request to park as the owners wish. Yes, they may issue an invoice but I'd 100% challenge it and wouldn't reckon to pay.
		
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That's handy to know... I'll have her park the car in the EV charging spaces next time we go shopping... Plus, as the drivers will likely be tree hugging hippies, its unlikely they'll challenge me to a bit of fisticuffs....


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## chrisd (Mar 8, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			I do think however there is a massive case of irony involved here how people wouldnâ€™t report something for a misuse of rules (which arenâ€™t law just rules)

However if it came to a round of golf (a game) we expect everyone to stick to the rules if we agree with them or not and would report people who broke them
		
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It depends on what you mean by rules I think. If you mean "cheat" then i would possibly report them in certain circumstances but you really can't compare someone parking inconsiderately to someone cheating at golf


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## chrisd (Mar 8, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			That's handy to know... I'll have her park the car in the EV charging spaces next time we go shopping... Plus, as the drivers will likely be tree hugging hippies, its unlikely they'll challenge me to a bit of fisticuffs....
		
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I'd suggest you be very careful Steve, Mrs d owns an all electric Nissan Leaf and she can be a mean and nasty lady! ðŸ˜¤


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## Slab (Mar 9, 2019)

In hindsight maybe just a one off post in the Random Irritation thread would have covered it & to let the OP vent


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## backwoodsman (Mar 9, 2019)

To make the shopping experience better,  I've always thought that supermarkets should have a very large bin by the car park entrance, into which you deposit all children on arrival. If we implemented that, then there'd be no need for special parking bays and problem solved. 

(Ps: And a separate bin for people suffering from "Oh, do I need to get my purse out?" syndrome ...)


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## Dibby (Mar 9, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			I do think however there is a massive case of irony involved here how people wouldnâ€™t report something for a misuse of rules (which arenâ€™t law just rules)

However if it came to a round of golf (a game) we expect everyone to stick to the rules if we agree with them or not and would report people who broke them
		
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What rules?

At best parent and child spaces are a courtesy and subject to a badly written contract. I wouldn't report someone for something I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) to be a breach of contract between two parties of which I have no involvement with.
At worst, the parking company enforcing such rules do not even have the right to do so. Do you just follow rules without questioning or verifying them?

Golf is different because by entering a competition, you have explicitly agreed to follow the rules, which includes your duty to make sure the rules are adhered to by others. This agreement is directly between yourself and the hosts of the competition.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 9, 2019)

Dibby said:



			What rules?

At best parent and child spaces are a courtesy and subject to a badly written contract. I wouldn't report someone for something I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) to be a breach of contract between two parties of which I have no involvement with.
At worst, the parking company enforcing such rules do not even have the right to do so. Do you just follow rules without questioning or verifying them?

Golf is different because by entering a competition, you have explicitly agreed to follow the rules, which includes your duty to make sure the rules are adhered to by others. This agreement is directly between yourself and the hosts of the competition.
		
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Lol as if people think that golf is more important than actual life?

In private car parks baby and child spaces hold the same legal value as disabled spaces.. private land so itâ€™s only a contract 

Would you say parking in a disabled bay without a badge is wrong?


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## SocketRocket (Mar 9, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Lol as if people think that golf is more important than actual life?

In private car parks baby and child spaces hold the same legal value as disabled spaces.. private land so itâ€™s only a contract

Would you say parking in a disabled bay without a badge is wrong?
		
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Lets be honest about this, these bays are not baby spaces, they are parent child places.  There is a big difference between these and disabled parking, the adults and children in most cases could do with the exercise to walk across a carpark.  I can uderstand genuine adult baby parking needing some extra space if you are taking out and putting in a baby in a carry chair, just like genuine disabled parking.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 9, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Lets be honest about this, these bays are not baby spaces, they are parent child places.  There is a big difference between these and disabled parking, the adults and children in most cases could do with the exercise to walk across a carpark.  I can uderstand genuine adult baby parking needing some extra space if you are taking out and putting in a baby in a carry chair, just like genuine disabled parking.
		
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Depends what you define as a carry chair though

As itâ€™s 50/50 with our daughter , depending on how far we are planning to go and what we doing

This example we got her stroller out the boot and put her in that and wheeled her round the shops

However if we hadnâ€™t been going marks first and just to kidspace we would have let her walk there

I do agree with you , I think they should be capped to about 5 but then Iâ€™d say the majority of parents in situations would actually not use them once their kids no longer need the space to let other parents use them

Sliding rear door cars might be the way forward


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## chrisd (Mar 9, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Lol as if people think that golf is more important than actual life?

In private car parks baby and child spaces hold the same legal value as disabled spaces.. private land so itâ€™s only a contract 

Would you say parking in a disabled bay without a badge is wrong?
		
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Isnt golf actual life? 

 I've parked in disabled bays without a badge. When I've driven for the first time after having my hips replaced, or my knee reconstructed I certainly parked in disabled bays in private car parks but wouldn't have done so in Council ones as its a lot more hassle.

I absolutely felt disabled at the time and compared to some who I see who have badges and look pretty sprightly when they jump out of their motors I certainly felt the need to keep the walking to a minimum .


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## Dibby (Mar 9, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Lol as if people think that golf is more important than actual life?

In private car parks baby and child spaces hold the same legal value as disabled spaces.. private land so itâ€™s only a contract

Would you say parking in a disabled bay without a badge is wrong?
		
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I did not say golf was more important. I was pointing out that in golf I have explicitily agreed to follow the rules. If I was playing golf I would report breaches that I witnessed. If I was watching the PGA tour highlights on TV (pre rules change), I wouldn't phone in with a rule breach that I saw, as I am not party to that competition. Do you see the difference?

Disabled bays and parent & child bays are not legally the same, as being disabled is a protected characteristic, but being a parent is not. So enforcing the provision of spaces for disabled people could be considered a reasonable adjustment by a court, but prohibiting anyone except parents with children would not be. It's still contract law, but the contract for a disabled bay would be on less rocky ground.

It's not about what I think is right or wrong. It's whether I would interfere with other peoples business without knowing the full details of what is going on. For example, what if your van driver had her son or daughter in the shop, as they had travelled with her in the van? It's not uncommon to see kids with parents in a van. Why did you assume she didn't have kids with her? This is before we even get to the legality of the contract for the parking space. With so many unknowns and no real harm being done to anyone else, I see no need to get involved.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 9, 2019)

chrisd said:



			Isnt golf actual life?

I've parked in disabled bays without a badge. When I've driven for the first time after having my hips replaced, or my knee reconstructed I certainly parked in disabled bays in private car parks but wouldn't have done so in Council ones as its a lot more hassle.

I absolutely felt disabled at the time and compared to some who I see who have badges and look pretty sprightly when they jump out of their motors I certainly felt the need to keep the walking to a minimum .
		
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A game regardless of how important to a person is at the end of the day a game 

These spaces (disabled ones) make doing everyday things we all take for granted a lot easier for disabled people 

So id say much more important than a game


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## pauljames87 (Mar 9, 2019)

Dibby said:



			I did not say golf was more important. I was pointing out that in golf I have explicitily agreed to follow the rules. If I was playing golf I would report breaches that I witnessed. If I was watching the PGA tour highlights on TV (pre rules change), I wouldn't phone in with a rule breach that I saw, as I am not party to that competition. Do you see the difference?

Disabled bays and parent & child bays are not legally the same, as being disabled is a protected characteristic, but being a parent is not. So enforcing the provision of spaces for disabled people could be considered a reasonable adjustment by a court, but prohibiting anyone except parents with children would not be. It's still contract law, but the contract for a disabled bay would be on less rocky ground.

It's not about what I think is right or wrong. It's whether I would interfere with other peoples business without knowing the full details of what is going on. For example, what if your van driver had her son or daughter in the shop, as they had travelled with her in the van? It's not uncommon to see kids with parents in a van. Why did you assume she didn't have kids with her? This is before we even get to the legality of the contract for the parking space. With so many unknowns and no real harm being done to anyone else, I see no need to get involved.
		
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if you google it you can see on private land that disabled spaces and parent and child spaces carry the same weight legally as each other

On street parking however is legally enforceable 

They were toying with a scheme for parents around here think it was Â£50 a year for a badge to park in the parent bays 

However it didnâ€™t make it because some parents canâ€™t afford it and wasnâ€™t deemed fair


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## Pathetic Shark (Mar 9, 2019)

I'll give this thread about another hour until it gets closed and infractions handed out.  Plus I've nearly finished my popcorn.


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## chrisd (Mar 9, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			A game regardless of how important to a person is at the end of the day a game 

These spaces (disabled ones) make doing everyday things we all take for granted a lot easier for disabled people 

So id say much more important than a game
		
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Honestly Paul, you're just digging the hole much deeper ðŸ¤«


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## pauljames87 (Mar 9, 2019)

chrisd said:



			Honestly Paul, you're just digging the hole much deeper ðŸ¤«
		
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Golf is a game , a good game we all enjoy. However a game none the less.

Far less important


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## chrisd (Mar 9, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			if you google it you can see on private land that disabled spaces and parent and child spaces carry the same weight legally as each other

On street parking however is legally enforceable
		
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As I've posted before, road markings and sineage in private car parks are not enforceable as they are on the highway. So, if you wrongly park in a supermarket you aren't greaking the law


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## Dibby (Mar 9, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			if you google it you can see on private land that disabled spaces and parent and child spaces carry the same weight legally as each other

On street parking however is legally enforceable

They were toying with a scheme for parents around here think it was Â£50 a year for a badge to park in the parent bays

However it didnâ€™t make it because some parents canâ€™t afford it and wasnâ€™t deemed fair
		
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What do you mean by legally enforcable?

A contract is legally enforceable, it's just civil law, rather than criminal law. Parking in an on-street disabled bay will get you a penalty, and perhaps up in front of a magistrate if you decide to fight it. Parking in one on private land will get you a charge, which has been said is just an invoice. However, due to the contract wording (around making reasonable provisions for disabled people), the invoice for the disabled bay is more likely to be enforceable and a country court judge would find in favour of it. With a parent and child bay, if the sign just prohibits parking, the judge would likely find that a contract had not even been entered into, and so there is no case to answer.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 9, 2019)

Dibby said:



			What do you mean by legally enforcable?

A contract is legally enforceable, it's just civil law, rather than criminal law. Parking in an on-street disabled bay will get you a penalty, and perhaps up in front of a magistrate if you decide to fight it. Parking in one on private land will get you a charge, which has been said is just an invoice. However, due to the contract wording (around making reasonable provisions for disabled people), the invoice for the disabled bay is more likely to be enforceable and a country court judge would find in favour of it. With a parent and child bay, if the sign just prohibits parking, the judge would likely find that a contract had not even been entered into, and so there is no case to answer.
		
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So exactly what I said 

Pc and disabled on private land.. same thing just a contract 

On street itâ€™s a fixed pen notice


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## Dibby (Mar 9, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			So exactly what I said

Pc and disabled on private land.. same thing just a contract

On street itâ€™s a fixed pen notice
		
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No, not exactly what you just said.

You claimed a disabled space and a parent & child space carried the same weight. A disability is a protected characteristic, but being a parent (excluding maternity laws) is not. There are laws requiring private landowners to make provisions for disabled people, but not for parents with children. Not all contracts are equal.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 9, 2019)

Dibby said:



			No, not exactly what you just said.

You claimed a disabled space and a parent & child space carried the same weight. A disability is a protected characteristic, but being a parent (excluding maternity laws) is not. There are laws requiring private landowners to make provisions for disabled people, but not for parents with children. Not all contracts are equal.
		
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They carry the same weight though as Chris has pointed out in his posts 
He parked in one without a badge when carrying an injury 

So under the rules of the car park itâ€™s all the same , if thereâ€™s a sign saying only certain people can park there only they are suppose to but if others do they are liable for a ticket (an invoice as Chris put it) however these are basically worthless


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## Dibby (Mar 9, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			They carry the same weight though as Chris has pointed out in his posts
He parked in one without a badge when carrying an injury

So under the rules of the car park itâ€™s all the same , if thereâ€™s a sign saying only certain people can park there only they are suppose to but if others do they are liable for a ticket (an invoice as Chris put it) however these are basically worthless
		
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No, it's not the same.

Firstly the contract wording is different. It depends on what the signage says exactly. Do you consider the purchase of a house the same as that of signing up to a mobile phone contract, just because they are both contractual agreements?
Chris is also only talking about the contract imposed by the private parking company engaged to manage the car park, and the terms for them making a charge legally enforceable.

Secondly, it also depends on the will of the landowner. For example, it could be considered trespass. If it went to court for trespass, it would come down to what the damages were. For someone using a parent and child space, and visiting the shop the damages would almost certainly be zero, but if someone used a disabled space, and then a genuinely disabled person turned up and provision had to be made for them, the damages would be some amount higher than zero, to account for the provisions that had to be made.

In practical terms, for the most part, supermarkets and retail parks are not in the habit of taking their customers to court, but it doesn't change the legal position that they could.


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## User20204 (Mar 9, 2019)

I wonder if there is irony or intention in your location being Havering


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## pauljames87 (Mar 9, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			I wonder if there is irony or intention in your location being Havering 

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Good morning happy. Glad you could join us again , taking time out of your busy schedule 

Havering eh? How hilarious ..

Must return those Jimmy Carr tickets , heâ€™s got nothing on your sharp wit and delivery


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## pauljames87 (Mar 9, 2019)

Dibby said:



			No, it's not the same.

Firstly the contract wording is different. It depends on what the signage says exactly. Do you consider the purchase of a house the same as that of signing up to a mobile phone contract, just because they are both contractual agreements?
Chris is also only talking about the contract imposed by the private parking company engaged to manage the car park, and the terms for them making a charge legally enforceable.

Secondly, it also depends on the will of the landowner. For example, it could be considered trespass. If it went to court for trespass, it would come down to what the damages were. For someone using a parent and child space, and visiting the shop the damages would almost certainly be zero, but if someone used a disabled space, and then a genuinely disabled person turned up and provision had to be made for them, the damages would be some amount higher than zero, to account for the provisions that had to be made.

In practical terms, for the most part, supermarkets and retail parks are not in the habit of taking their customers to court, but it doesn't change the legal position that they could.
		
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Everydays a school day as they say


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## chrisd (Mar 9, 2019)

Dibby said:



			No, it's not the same.

Firstly the contract wording is different. It depends on what the signage says exactly. Do you consider the purchase of a house the same as that of signing up to a mobile phone contract, just because they are both contractual agreements?
Chris is also only talking about the contract imposed by the private parking company engaged to manage the car park, and the terms for them making a charge legally enforceable.

Secondly, it also depends on the will of the landowner. For example, it could be considered trespass. If it went to court for trespass, it would come down to what the damages were. For someone using a parent and child space, and visiting the shop the damages would almost certainly be zero, but if someone used a disabled space, and then a genuinely disabled person turned up and provision had to be made for them, the damages would be some amount higher than zero, to account for the provisions that had to be made.

In practical terms, for the most part, supermarkets and retail parks are not in the habit of taking their customers to court, but it doesn't change the legal position that they could.
		
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The last invoice I dealt with for someone was for parking in a private car park for 5 minutes and the invoice was for Â£80 as it was claimed that they had no right to park there. So, the charge was for trespass in effect, as a parking company cant charge a parking fee for something you aren't, under their terms, allowed to do. Also, only the land owner can bring a trespass case to court and not a 3rd party ie a company engaged to manage the car park. So, my point is that most invoices have ways to be fought and beaten and why most parking companies wont win in court, you just have to know your stuff


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## bobmac (Mar 9, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			They were toying with a scheme for parents around here think it was Â£50 a year for a badge to park in the parent bays
		
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I was going to suggest that myself.
Would you pay it?


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## pauljames87 (Mar 9, 2019)

bobmac said:



			I was going to suggest that myself.
Would you pay it?
		
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100% I would indeed Bob, providing it was a borough wide scheme for all car parks , not like something that in this one its valid in this itâ€™s not.


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## Dibby (Mar 9, 2019)

chrisd said:



			The last invoice I dealt with for someone was for parking in a private car park for 5 minutes and the invoice was for Â£80 as it was claimed that they had no right to park there. So, the charge was for trespass in effect, as a parking company cant charge a parking fee for something you aren't, under their terms, allowed to do. Also, only the land owner can bring a trespass case to court and not a 3rd party ie a company engaged to manage the car park. So, my point is that most invoices have ways to be fought and beaten and why most parking companies wont win in court, you just have to know your stuff
		
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I agree, that's part of the distinction I was making.

Firstly for a private parking company to make a charge legally enforceable, they would have to have a contract that you entered into. If they forbid parking, they have not made an offer for you to accept, therefore no contract is formed and there can be no liability for a charge.

So, if it is a trespass only the landowner or leaseholder can make a claim, and it would have to be for the actual damages incurred. In practical terms, most supermarkets\retail parks won't bother taking their customers to court, but they could, and in the case of a disabled bay, would have a reasonable chance of winning damages. 

In the first instance, the disabled bay could have parking offered at a rate of Â£0 for disabled people, and Â£100 per 24 hours for all others. This would be legal, as you can positively discriminate in favour of disabled people as part of your requirement to make provisions for them, but you could not do the same for other non-protected groups, such as parents. If the bay just says parking for disabled only, or similar, then as per the cases you have won, there is no contract to answer to.

In the second instance, there is more chance of there being incurred damages to award with a disabled bay on private land, over a parent & child bay.


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## chrisd (Mar 9, 2019)

Dibby said:



			I agree, that's part of the distinction I was making.

Firstly for a private parking company to make a charge legally enforceable, they would have to have a contract that you entered into. If they forbid parking, they have not made an offer for you to accept, therefore no contract is formed and there can be no liability for a charge.

So, if it is a trespass only the landowner or leaseholder can make a claim, and it would have to be for the actual damages incurred. In practical terms, most supermarkets\retail parks won't bother taking their customers to court, but they could, and in the case of a disabled bay, would have a reasonable chance of winning damages.

In the first instance, the disabled bay could have parking offered at a rate of Â£0 for disabled people, and Â£100 per 24 hours for all others. This would be legal, as you can positively discriminate in favour of disabled people as part of your requirement to make provisions for them, but you could not do the same for other non-protected groups, such as parents. If the bay just says parking for disabled only, or similar, then as per the cases you have won, there is no contract to answer to.

In the second instance, there is more chance of there being incurred damages to award with a disabled bay on private land, over a parent & child bay.
		
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Then the whole parking matter becomes a minefield and most private parking companies, who regularly get it wrong, and wouldn't win in court so long as the defendant swatted up on the subject. But I really dont suggest parking irresponsibly in car parks is a good thing, I just dont think people should be slapped with huge 'fines'


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 9, 2019)

chrisd said:



			Then the whole parking matter becomes a minefield and most private parking companies, who regularly get it wrong, and wouldn't win in court so long as the defendant swatted up on the subject. But I really dont suggest parking irresponsibly in car parks is a good thing, I just dont think people should be slapped with huge 'fines'
		
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All this just confirms to me something I always knew.
Quite reasonable fair minded people are like Jeckl and Hyde once they get behind the wheel of a car!


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## Jamesbrown (Mar 9, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



https://www.motherandbaby.co.uk/fam...t-and-child-parking-spaces-the-dos-and-don-ts

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Thatâ€™s only relative to some private parking car parks. 
Is it relative to the one you used? 
What does the sign say at the one in question. 
Do you have a link to the car park in question? Does it have an attendant, or is it camerered just to monitor time spent or nothing at all? 
Those list of â€œrulesâ€ arenâ€™t for all car parks.


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## Jamesbrown (Mar 9, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			So exactly what I said

Pc and disabled on private land.. same thing just a contract

On street itâ€™s a fixed pen notice
		
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Now, on street disabled bays.... 

Not enforceable if painted white by the council. 

Courtesy only unless yellow!


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 9, 2019)

I accept the original post makes mention of the lady van drivers rudeness, and that is wrong however none of us know the reason for her surlyness, we'vre all had bad days or news that makes us unpleasant. But lets ignore the fact it was a van that shouldn't be in that space.....how many of the other spaces actually weRE parents with young children with them?
I see many a pram/child space where a lone parent parks their car in it and off they go. It's just people being selfish and inconsiderate and it will never stop. Roll your eyes and let it go, it's life.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 9, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I accept the original post makes mention of the lady van drivers rudeness, and that is wrong however none of us know the reason for her surlyness, we'vre all had bad days or news that makes us unpleasant. But lets ignore the fact it was a van that shouldn't be in that space.....how many of the other spaces actually weRE parents with young children with them?
I see many a pram/child space where a lone parent parks their car in it and off they go. It's just people being selfish and inconsiderate and it will never stop. Roll your eyes and let it go, it's life.
		
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Indeed the situation only got resolved when mid convo the car next to it went.. a lady in gym gear no child so shouldnâ€™t be in the space but nearer the gym (obvs needs less exercise getting there) 

Today we went shopping and just drove to my parents, left little lady with them and walked into town.


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 9, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Today we went shopping and just drove to my parents, left little lady with them and walked into town.
		
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Until you have done this, you dont know how much of a god send being able to do this is


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## pauljames87 (Mar 9, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Until you have done this, you dont know how much of a god send being able to do this is

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It is fantastic , wiz around the shop in no time. Plus she has a whale of a time with grandad


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## Leftie (Mar 10, 2019)




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