# Is my swing to steep?



## KhalJimbo (Nov 16, 2015)

So I took my phone and tripod to the range today and to me it looks like my swing is very very steep!

5i Slow Motion

[video=youtube;vMpk-0cAqMU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMpk-0cAqMU[/video]

Not sure if such a steep swing is a good thing or not. Any comments on my swing?


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## KhalJimbo (Nov 16, 2015)

5i Full Speed

[video=youtube;AWL1tZ_Pmtw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWL1tZ_Pmtw[/video]


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 16, 2015)

I would work on the overswing and the out to in swingpath before worrying about anything else  :thup:


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## One Planer (Nov 16, 2015)

Have a look at these two images at similar points in the downswing.  

You:







Luke Donald:







Look at the angle of your shaft compared to LD.

Notice where the shaft is in relation to his body.  Now look where your shaft is.

Edit.  Are you having lessons currently?  

Guessing your bad shot is  a pull/slice?

Bob and theCoach may pop in shortly :thup:


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## garyinderry (Nov 16, 2015)

Holy flying elbows batman.      I'd calm that down first.

[video=youtube;smp1C1R5Mb0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smp1C1R5Mb0[/video]


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## upsidedown (Nov 16, 2015)

Why cant I see vids? Looked in my settings and cant see anything. On lap top


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## KhalJimbo (Nov 17, 2015)

Hmm "Flying elbow" that definitely looks like it. 

Any ideas how to calm that down?

OnePlaner, finished some lessons earlier this year, booking a load more in over winter for exactly this reason.


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## spongebob59 (Nov 17, 2015)

KhalJimbo said:



			Hmm "Flying elbow" that definitely looks like it. 

Any ideas how to calm that down?

OnePlaner, finished some lessons earlier this year, booking a load more in over winter for exactly this reason.
		
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Which pro ? Greg ?


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## chrisd (Nov 17, 2015)

KhalJimbo said:



			Hmm "Flying elbow" that definitely looks like it. 

Any ideas how to calm that down?

OnePlaner, finished some lessons earlier this year, booking a load more in over winter for exactly this reason.
		
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Put a glove under your right armpit and try not to let it fall out until the follow through


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## Region3 (Nov 17, 2015)

I think you'd potentially make so many things (flying elbow, steep, cutting across the ball) better just by stopping your backswing around here.....




Any further and bad things happen that you have to make compensations for in the downswing.

From there you just need to set your wrists and the club will point down the line more.

A face on view would be interesting.


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## garyinderry (Nov 17, 2015)

a conscious effort to stop that right elbow raising up as much should naturally stop the backswing earlier. 


I do wonder what some pros are doing if you have already had a series of lessons.    surely any kind of help with cutting that back swing would have a massive effect on you being able to control the club better.


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## the_coach (Nov 17, 2015)

KhalJimbo said:



			So I took my phone and tripod to the range today and to me it looks like my swing is very very steep!
Not sure if such a steep swing is a good thing or not. Any comments on my swing?
		
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often  times what's goin not so well in a swing motion has it's origin with  how the hands are positioned on the handle along combined with some  issues within posture set-up at address, ball position

until these issues are sorted a little ways  better the current swing motion both back & through will tend on  the whole to give similar results as it has a direct correlation to the  motion that's being produced

in a nutshell the handle in the lead  hand is little ways too much in the palm & probably a little 'weak'  (rotated too much counter-clockwise) while the right hand is too much  'under' the handle (rotated too much clockwise with the thumb against the trailside of the handle) 

this is pretty common issue with some folks, as counter-intuitively this feels like a ways powerful hold on the club
but  in essence it isn't as it stops the hands/wrists setting correctly  'upwards' which limits by a good ways any real opportunity of a good  'wrist set angle' which in turn decreases the ability for true clubhead  speed so distance, plus restricts accuracy of 'squareness' &  'sweetspot strike' delivery of the clubface at impact 

this  difficulty in having a good 'set' angle between shaft & lead arm of  90Âº by the time the lead arm is horizontal to the ground is then  responsible for folks feeling they have to continue to take the  arms/club ways back so the overswing way out of plane at the top - from  there any arm/hand/club connection with the upper/lower body is lost  makes it real difficult to get back to the ball in any real kind of good  shape 

if you look at freeze of address position notice the  angle between the spine & club shaft is a good ways from 45Âº - the  spine is pretty upright, which in turn puts the chin 'down' on the chest  plus meaning there then has to be little overbend in the knees to be  able to put clubhead to ball at address
{can't really see from this  angle but with the over & out swing shape, swinging left through  impact to be able to 'get to' the ball it's very possible the ball is  little ways too far forwards in the stance}

the issues with the right elbow, the overswing, the downswing shape back to the ball so contact shot outcomes all stem from hands on the handle along with the set-up

need  really to get grip & set-up in better shape so then the  wrists/hands 'set' in a good ways so when the lead arm is 1st  parallel/horizontal to the ground the angle between the club shaft &  lead arm is at or pretty near to 90Âº - the wrist set is one of the big  factors is both speed & accuracy of strike, of plane & AoA -  with setting that angle then the arm/club can stop when the body stops  turning so the top of the swing is little ways before the club gets to  horizontal to the ground atop the swing so the connection remains easy  then to deliver the clubhead to ball with some speed but much less  physical effort


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## the_coach (Nov 17, 2015)

[video=youtube;N2imbfCntZc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2imbfCntZc[/video]


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## the_coach (Nov 17, 2015)

both address set-ups with 5i

you can see the difference in pelvic angles so spine angle - 'belt' on the left pretty much horizontal to the ground so body a ways upright look at angle between body & shaft plus head/chin to chest

on the right look at the 'belt' so the pelvic angle so spine angle to 5i club shaft plus the \room' from chin to chest 
this a posture that's not 'butt' _sitting down_ with extra knee bend
look close you can also see the difference in (from this angle) the right hand position which is in place more on top of the handle as the previous video








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## KhalJimbo (Nov 17, 2015)

spongebob59 said:



			Which pro ? Greg ?
		
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Yeah with Greg, I got a mail from him the other day about a winter special. Will get some lessons booked in.


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## KhalJimbo (Nov 17, 2015)

garyinderry said:



			I do wonder what some pros are doing if you have already had a series of lessons.    surely any kind of help with cutting that back swing would have a massive effect on you being able to control the club better.
		
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To be fair I only started golf a year ago and had lessons in January. Going to get make getting a lesson or two a regular occurrence to keep things in check.


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## KhalJimbo (Nov 17, 2015)

Thanks The_Coach, some good advice there, I'll try these out next tomorrow when I get down to the range.


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## spongebob59 (Nov 17, 2015)

KhalJimbo said:



			Yeah with Greg, I got a mail from him the other day about a winter special. Will get some lessons booked in.
		
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I've no idea what he's like as a teaching pro, but I gotta say the range is one of the worst I've ever been in.


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## KhalJimbo (Nov 17, 2015)

spongebob59 said:



			I've no idea what he's like as a teaching pro, but I gotta say the range is one of the worst I've ever been in.
		
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It's really not great, you're right, I prefer the range at Canterbury or Stoneless but as Boughton is only 10 mins away its much more accessible.


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## garyinderry (Nov 17, 2015)

KhalJimbo said:



			To be fair I only started golf a year ago and had lessons in January. Going to get make getting a lesson or two a regular occurrence to keep things in check.
		
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Not having a go at you in any way bud.  I resting the blame firmly at the door of the pro who has let you continue to swing like that after a couple of lessons. I just find it staggering.    

With a little bit of work you could be hitting the ball x10 better.  

Look up videos on 

Grip as the coach mentions as this will allow the club to hinge.  Grip in the fingers.
One piece take away.
Flying right elbow
Compact swing.


Most of this can be done at home to get the feelings even without hitting a ball.  Your ball striking will be transformed in no time at all. At the minute you will only hit pulls and slices. 

Watch the videos. Do slow motion drills in front of a mirror to make sure you are getting closer to where you want to be.


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## garyinderry (Nov 18, 2015)

Video robin made yesterday.  Girl has a similar swing to you.   worth a look.

[video=youtube;YFn2An8cw58]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFn2An8cw58[/video]


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## KhalJimbo (Nov 29, 2015)

So thanks for all the advice and video links, much appreciated. I've taken them on board and made some changes, especially trying to keep my right arm more connected to my body.

I started gripping the club more on top, and also spent a few times at the range with a driver cover under my right arm too to keep it closer to my body. Quite uncomfortable at first, but feeling better with it now. I also played a round with this swing which worked quite well for me, I did default back to my arms all over the place but with practice I'll get there. 

This is what it's looking like now, with my PW (not the best camera angel but I didn't have my tripod with me that day). I think I can see an improvement, the Pro was on the range when I was practicing this and he said it's looking better too compared compared to what I was doing before (I showed what my swing had morphed into over the year) and have now also booked some coaching over winter to try improve it even further as he said with some coaching I'll start to get my wrist action working better and get some more club head speed but he has given me a drill to work on it with in the mean time. 

[video=youtube;1mceGRYwMr4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mceGRYwMr4[/video]

Still got lots of work to do but feel its an improvement already.


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## bobmac (Nov 30, 2015)

You're always going to slice/pull with that swing path.
It needs a major change to get it to 'neutral' and A LOT of hard work.


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## KhalJimbo (Nov 30, 2015)

bobmac said:



			You're always going to slice/pull with that swing path.
It needs a major change to get it to 'neutral' and A LOT of hard work.
		
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Do you mean neutral grip? As explained here

[video=youtube;kvjxt2TvTfI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvjxt2TvTfI[/video]


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## bobmac (Nov 30, 2015)

During the golf swing the club shaft is parallel to the ground 3 times.......on the backswing, on the downswing and on the follow through.
At these 3 points, the shaft should be pointing at the target, especially on the downswing.

Here's yours




The red line shows you where it should be pointing.
It's actually very close to where it is in the backswing which is also wrong.
Get to work with your pro and fix the swing path BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE if you want to have a 'neutral golf swing.


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## KhalJimbo (Nov 30, 2015)

bobmac said:



			During the golf swing the club shaft is parallel to the ground 3 times.......on the backswing, on the downswing and on the follow through.
At these 3 points, the shaft should be pointing at the target, especially on the downswing.

Here's yours

View attachment 17767


The red line shows you where it should be pointing.
It's actually very close to where it is in the backswing which is also wrong.
Get to work with your pro and fix the swing path BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE if you want to have a 'neutral golf swing.
		
Click to expand...

Will get on the Explanar with the pro tomorrow to get a better feel for the swing path.


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## bobmac (Nov 30, 2015)

KhalJimbo said:



			Will get on the Explanar with the pro tomorrow to get a better feel for the swing path.
		
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It will be hard work and won't happen overnight but it will be worth it in the end as you WILL hit the ball further and straighter.
Good luck


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## the_coach (Nov 30, 2015)

great that you decided through the off season to get series of lessons definitely the ways to go

(unless your Pro has asked you to do drills with headcover under right arm for a specific reason - would can that as it can easy encourage the backswing to get a ways too narrow which can then exacerbate the downswing starting with the arms & shoulders from the get-go of transition & throwing the downswing out & over so swinging well leftfield through the ball)

swinging out to in from the top can largely be due to the motion being out of sequence (although how the club goes back will also play into it either too much back inside or as in your swing vid a little ways out & away through takeback can also tend to encourage an out to in swinging left through the ball) so starting down with the movement of the arms/shoulders instead of the lower body weight pressure into the lead side moving lead knee back to target (so back inline over the ankle) 'small' lead hip bump to target before hips rotate

can help to 'feel' from the top that the 'back' stays momentarily 'looking' to target at the top as that lower body moves the 'weight pressure' back into the lead side, lead foot, then swing down & through

here's a 'gate drill' that can help with the swing direction coming down from transition into & through impact (run it by your Pro to see if he's okay with you using it in practice) you will need to 'feel' that swing sequence changing with the lower body leading transition to swing easy through the 'gate'

[video=youtube;8uQYWdeYviA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uQYWdeYviA[/video]


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## the_coach (Nov 30, 2015)

one further thing that may help you, an alternative or addition to the basket gate drill, if you can get hold of an old box clubs delivered in or you could use a shoe box - again run it by your Pro that he's okay with you doing it in practice {until you can do the basket gate or box drill pretty good would stay aways from the 3 ball drill as you could end up with them flying off anywhere as it's a mite more difficult

but the box an 1&1/2" on the outside of the ball, with ball position center of box (lengthways)
pretty easy to see that to be able to get good impact conditions the club has to travel little ways from the inside & down some {with every ball that's not up on a tee} (again back to the swing sequence from the top to be able to achieve this) & after impact return a little ways back on the inside - if both these conditions not met you strike the box either on the ways too the ball or after striking the ball

the quality of the vid here not so great but you can see the 'box' position 

[video=youtube;A6cj4NLOZT0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6cj4NLOZT0[/video]


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## garyinderry (Nov 30, 2015)

Those gate drills are fantastic.   I stood for many a cold nigh a few years ago pounding these drills. 


4.06 on this video will be key to your stooping coming so over the top.   if you use those step drills your body may naturally work out how to move in order for you club to swing and avoid the baskets. 

That magic bump of the hips left at the top of the swing may well be key to allowing you to bring the club down on a shallower plane. 

[video=youtube;mRIk-3yO2so]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRIk-3yO2so[/video]


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## garyinderry (Nov 30, 2015)

Drill here to try.

[video=youtube;f01EB2rMtME]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f01EB2rMtME[/video]


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## KhalJimbo (Dec 2, 2015)

Did some of these gate drills yesterday at the range, but I think I set up the front basket wrong as I kept hitting it, couldn't get a feel for it, need to watch the videos again as I think I had it in the wrong place, but the back one helped a lot with the take away. 

I had a lesson this morning and we worked on the take away and back swing, he showed me 3 parts of the swing to look out for (what would be 3 parts as we only concentrated on the take away and back swing) but worked on making the takeaway more parallel to the ground and continuing on the plane and rotating my shoulders more at the top which ended stopping my ridiculous over swing as he identified I was using my arms to much to complete the back swing. 

Couldn't hit a ball properly afterwards due the changes but he said he's not bothered about that for now as next week we'll work on my downswing, then the following week we'll work on ball striking.

Feel I've made some progress due to being able to practice quite a bit in the weeks now, doing that gate drill I feel really improved my takeaway, pro said its a good drill but I was taking away a little bit too flat to compensate for not hitting the basket (he videod my take away with it and I was taking away quite under the plane). Back again at it tomorrow followed by the front 9, looking forward to it.


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## the_coach (Dec 2, 2015)

could be that the forwards basket not quite in the correct place (to that don't forget you put the shaft at address plane as the final guide & just move basket a fraction away from shaft to have just a little ways clearance) {as your Pro is okay with the drill just ask him to go over how you set it up}

alternatively could have been you still starting down from the top so swing still just a little ways out & over with from the top the hips rotating left straightaway which means path through the ball would still be a ways leftfield

something you could do to stop turning back too much inside as you miss the basket on the ways back - is around 6", 7" on a straight line back from the ball put a small coin to clubhead has to pass over the coin so 'just' miss the basket

hope it all goes good


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