# My swing,



## USER1999 (Feb 7, 2012)

Well, here it is, in all it's horror. The lighting is a bit strobe like, as the camera picks up the SON lighting, and breaks it up, so not for those with photo sensitive epilepsy.

I am hitting it fine, but everything goes stupid high because my hands are at best level with the ball at impact. Clearly there is zero lag, and most club flex is long gone before impact.

Ideas?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XiI...ist=ULbDo5KGJofFg&lf=mfu_in_order&playnext=19

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDo5KGJofFg&feature=BFa&list=ULbDo5KGJofFg&lf=mfu_in_order


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## bobmac (Feb 7, 2012)

Would like to comment but it would undoubtably be wrong.


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## USER1999 (Feb 7, 2012)

bobmac said:



			Would like to comment but it would undoubtably be wrong.
		
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Doesn't have to be wrong in my view, as I am clueless at present. PM me then Bob, as I am interested in your views. This is meant to be a conventional swing, not something unique!


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## bobmac (Feb 7, 2012)

I thought you were trying S&T ?


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## Foxholer (Feb 7, 2012)

That swing should get you round a golf course, though I'd think you need to aim a smidgeon left? Seems to have been quite a bit of teaching done already?

Bob's 'the expert' so ignore what the rest of us say (including this ).

S&T could be something for you though - purely imo of course!


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## Monty_Brown (Feb 7, 2012)

I like the strobe effect: looks rather like a David Lynch movie, which is obviously a good thing :thup:

You bend the left arm quite a lot on the backswing - there may be an anatomical reason for this, like a knackered elbow? Personally I'd find it quite hard to retain lag while my arm was bending then straightening.

I like the way you drop it inside into "the slot" at the start of the downswing. Looks pretty cool.... no idea if it's a good thing but doesn't do Rory any harm :fore:

Is it S&T? Looks fairly S&T from the front. Very centred and weight does stack quite a lot.


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## USER1999 (Feb 7, 2012)

bobmac said:



			I thought you were trying S&T ?
		
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No, I am going conventional (does my swing look that far from it?). There are a few reasons, but the main one is that I wanted to have some lessons, as self teaching can only get you so far. The S&T coach in my area is scary money, and very hard to get hold of last time I tried, so I have the hump with him.


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## sawtooth (Feb 7, 2012)

Your left arm collapses, you can see this most clearly 7 secs into the second video. The other observation Murph is that your hands are way too forward at address IMO. Something that cant be seen but might also be present is tension in the arms. Try to relax them , you find you can swing much more freely with relaxed arms.

Thats my 2 pennies worth take it with a pinch of salt if required:mmm:


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## Aztecs27 (Feb 7, 2012)

As someone who saw your "old" swing, I like the look of this one! The changes are black and white and it looks a lot more comfortable. I would say that all the hard work is paying off. 

I can't comment on what you're not doing (other than your left arm collapsing) as I'm a 19 handicap hacker but at least I won't have to look away every time you swing next time we play. :thup:


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## Snelly (Feb 7, 2012)

Looks very good. 

If you can, get that left arm straight.  Slightly more shoulder turn might facilitate this.


Looks nice enough to me though.  Lovely still head through the swing....  

I don't know much about swing mechanics though!

Keep persevering Murph!


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## timchump (Feb 7, 2012)

looks nice

love the change of direction at the top, looks like a very tour pro type movement.

take my thoughts as a piece of salt - 16 handicap 

 your right arm looks fully extended at impact, i'd say your extending the right arm to early causing you to flick the ball up in the air, right hand seems to overtake the left during impact, i think im correct in saying the right  should only extend fully after impact

id probaly do some half swings keeping the left arm straight and letting the right flex and stay relatively tucked into your body


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## Foxholer (Feb 7, 2012)

My tuppence.

I reckon a drill of hitting left-handed only (half to three-quarter swings) would be worthwile. Left arm does seem to be straight (or getting out of the way) for too much of the swing. The left handed only hitting should get you used to the 'proper' hinge-ing of the elbow and wrist and result in more of a swing than the current sweep.

The forward-press that Sawtooth to refers probably contributes to the high ball flight. Your arms at impact seem fine - full stretch (almost) - but the fact that they are not when you address the ball means you have to make room - by lifting out of the way. A case for Bob's V gadget? Others might say 'stand tall and straight but relaxed'. 

Seem to have a weak left hand and strong right one too - might change when the forward press goes and comfort is generally more important than classicism imo but what do I know!

And your hips don't turn much on the backswing but slide forward on the downswing.

Wouldn't be ashamed of that swing. Scores are made from the short game. The rest is just a case of getting there! Now where that bucket of salt to smother this crock of...


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## AxelBenito (Feb 7, 2012)

.....and seizure


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## DaveM (Feb 7, 2012)

First let me say thats a bloody good swing there. Dont worry about the slight bent arm at the top. I have played it though about 50 times. The only two things I can see (Bob may say differant). 1 when your arms are in the half swing position you should have a full 90* wrist cock your is about 70/75*. 2 there is a tendancy to start to release from the top of your downswing. A practise drill I use is to just use halfswings with full wrist cock and try to really whip the hands though the hiting area as your hands start to get level with the ball. So by the time the club reaches the ball your hands will be infront. Do it without a ball as well then you can do it indoors. But as I said thats a damn good swing dont mess to much with it. Hope this helps, but it can't do any harm(hope not anyway).


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## brendy (Feb 7, 2012)

AxelBenito said:



			.....and seizure
		
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Ditto.
Slightly dustin johnstonesque I think just as you start the downswing.


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## Alex1975 (Feb 7, 2012)

Not really helpful but I like it, its a nice looking swing...


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## Region3 (Feb 7, 2012)

Murph, out of interest, what is it that your pro is trying to get you to change, other than creating more lag?


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## richart (Feb 7, 2012)

Shows how much I know, I thought it was a S & T swing Murph ! Bob's your man.


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## JustOne (Feb 7, 2012)

Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob....... let's leave it to Bob  

I'll not comment as I wouldn't want to contradict anything Bob might say. Too many cooks.



Nice posture at set up Chris... I said to myself "Who is that?" :thup:


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## USER1999 (Feb 7, 2012)

Region3 said:



			Murph, out of interest, what is it that your pro is trying to get you to change, other than creating more lag?
		
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It would be quicker to list the things we are not changing!


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## JustOne (Feb 7, 2012)

Cheers for the PM Chris, I'll post my thoughts here in a bit for you... I don't like to hide behind PM's.


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## JustOne (Feb 7, 2012)

OK...I know big words confuse you Chris so I'll try and fix your swing with 2 words and 1 picture 

The explaination will come afterwards and you can ignore that bit if it gets too complicated 



Here goes............



*SWING LEFT

*







Here's the pic as an attachment as i made it a bit too big...




Long winded explaination part:

Your hands are working away from your body and they can't do that with the swing you are trying to do now.
The push-draw pattern is very much inside-out (as per S&T) where the hands move out or down the line. The issue is that as your swingplane gets steeper (more online) you can't do that outwards movement with the hands... you'll start shanking (no comment). An online swing will produce smaller shapes as it's more of an in-to-in swingpath so you shouldn't even be thinking about hitting a BIG draw of any sort.

Swinging left: What you need to 'feel' is on your downswing your hands lead, stay low and forward, and go practically into your left pocket before you hit the ball  Your left shoulder on the downswing should 'feel' like it stays low, this will enable you to keep the hands forward and create lag. The club should 'feel' like you've left it a little open. D-plane show us that an in-to-in swing will produce a straight shot if you swing slightly left with the face a fraction open.

You'll still be swinging from the inside (as you currently drop the club nicely in transition) however it will be more 'online' and provided you don't roll the release at all (clubface 2Â° open to path) should result in nice straight ball flight, a baby draw, and little push-fades. If you roll then that puppy is going low and left!!!!... however it should almost 'feel' like you're going to slice (it's impossible to slice unless you have a big difference between clubface and swingpath, the only way you'll do it would be to leave the face waaaay open)

Onto the release.

You're hands need to be leading the club, if you are swinging into your left pocket you should get all the lag you need. To hit a push-fade you open your left hip (like a spin) to hit straight shots you spin *with* extension (about 50/50) and to hit a draw you extend (up) hard with little/no spin.

At the moment your head backs out of the shot as you come into impact, that's because it's trying to create the space for your hands to swing out... if you put 'em in your left pocket and have them forwards you should be able to stay more over the ball with your torso, covering the ball. Don't forget to do all the things you're currently doing though.. hips forward, drop in transition etc otherwise you'll end up having something else to fix!!

Here's a vid... it's a good one, pay attention to where he says "it felt like this......", it's not an over the top move provided you drop the club in transition.

[video=youtube;b6cntSpVbZo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6cntSpVbZo[/video]



so I hope that helps... swing left!

Here's one more vid (for luck and to make you feel like the special guy you are.... )... this is the swing that it looks like *you should be after*... watch the hands  (Note: here he is hitting a little push-fade so the hips turn hard left with little extension)

[video=youtube;XBJiqXesAUc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBJiqXesAUc[/video]

I like what you're doing there Chris,........ always thought you looked like Charl  :thup:


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## richart (Feb 7, 2012)

JustOne said:



			Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob....... let's leave it to Bob 

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I'm sorry James but I understood that Murph wanted a conventional swing. Didn't realise you had taken over all teaching methods.


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## JustOne (Feb 7, 2012)

richart said:



			I'm sorry James but I understood that Murph wanted a conventional swing. Didn't realise you had taken over all teaching methods.

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I'm pretty good with all swings thanks Rich  :ears:



I happen to not like the ones where there's a ton of weight on the right foot though...well, especially when it's not expedited properly! :thup: Many ways to skin a cat, or is that swing a cat? 

And anyway, Bob would likely post... "How's your grip?" 



It's pretty cool Bob having me on 'ignore' :rofl:


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## richart (Feb 7, 2012)

JustOne said:



			I'm pretty good with all swings thanks Rich 

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and modest with it.:ears:


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## JustOne (Feb 7, 2012)

but isn't arrogance (and inability to listen to opinion) a standard trait of a golf pro? 

I'm happy to listen to all, and judge none


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## bobmac (Feb 7, 2012)

JustOne said:



			but isn't arrogance (and inability to listen to opinion) a standard trait of a golf pro? 

I'm happy to listen to all, and judge none 

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I'm not arrogant

And I do listen.

I just got fed up argueing


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## JustOne (Feb 7, 2012)

bobmac said:



			I just got fed up argueing
		
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But you started all the arguements Bob.

Put me back on ignore, it was quieter.


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## bobmac (Feb 7, 2012)

JustOne said:



			But you started all the arguements Bob.

Put me back on ignore, it was quieter.
		
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Done


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## DaveM (Feb 7, 2012)

Some people are to big for their boots. Ignore sounds a damn fine idea.


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## JustOne (Feb 7, 2012)

DaveM said:



			Some people are to big for their boots. Ignore sounds a damn fine idea.
		
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Richart and I are exchanging banter with each other and now you judge me because you are not party to (understanding) our banter?

Funny.


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## AuburnWarrior (Feb 7, 2012)

Chris, looks like you've got a very nice swing there.

I'm not good enough to tell you what you're doing wrong *but* it did appear to me that your hands moved away from your body on the take away.  I think that would invoke a draw....... 

The swing looks good enough to get your handicap down.  I'll still take a few quid off you though.......


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## Region3 (Feb 7, 2012)

JustOne said:



			Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob....... let's leave it to Bob  

I'll not comment as I wouldn't want to contradict anything Bob might say. Too many cooks.
		
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JustOne said:



			It's pretty cool Bob having me on 'ignore' :rofl:
		
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bobmac said:



			I'm not arrogant

And I do listen.

I just got fed up argueing
		
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JustOne said:



			But you started all the arguements Bob.

Put me back on ignore, it was quieter.
		
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bobmac said:



			Done   

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It's very sad. 

I like you both, a lot.

A PGA Pro and a decent golfer who's also studied the swing a lot has the potential to have lots of very good debate for those that find it interesting.

I'm not going to take sides or apportion blame, but it was almost as if it was banter gone wrong and each post turned into 'baiting'.

Shame.

Sorry for taking your thread slightly o/t Chris.


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## Bratty (Feb 7, 2012)

Chris, god forbid anyone should want my advice on a golf swing, but having watched the vids of you v Schwarzl side by side, here's what I can see you do differently:

Slightly steeper plane from 4 seconds on and much longer "top" of swing of backswing (he stops at your 6 seconds, you stop at 8);
Start of downswing is nice, but then it comes back in on a steeper plane;
hands a good bit further out from your body;

I also wonder if the turns more from your upper body/arms?

As I said, no idea if I'm talking horlicks, but that's certainly what I see, although no idea if changing any of that would help!

Good luck!


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## Aztecs27 (Feb 7, 2012)

Region3 said:



			It's very sad. 

I like you both, a lot.

A PGA Pro and a decent golfer who's also studied the swing a lot has the potential to have lots of very good debate for those that find it interesting.

I'm not going to take sides or apportion blame, but it was almost as if it was banter gone wrong and each post turned into 'baiting'.

Shame.

Sorry for taking your thread slightly o/t Chris.
		
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I could not agree more with everything Gary has said.


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## AuburnWarrior (Feb 7, 2012)

Aztecs27 said:



			I could not agree more with everything Gary has said.
		
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I second that comment.


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## Junior (Feb 7, 2012)

I think it looks great Murph.  You keep turning through impact nicely so the club doesnt get stuck behind you.   

If your hitting it sweet and can repeat it then stick with it !!  Well done for doing a Faldo and committing to rebuilding your swing, thats some discipline.


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## Region3 (Feb 7, 2012)

Just thinking about it in a non technical kind of way, I feel that if my left arm bent at the top of the backswing that my wrist would want to straighten as my left arm did on the way down. Is keeping your left arm straighter one of the things you're working on or is your pro happy with that?

Have you tried consciously trying to keep your wrists from straightening so the club goes over the top of the ball, just as an exercise to see if it can be done?


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## USER1999 (Feb 7, 2012)

Region3 said:



			Just thinking about it in a non technical kind of way, I feel that if my left arm bent at the top of the backswing that my wrist would want to straighten as my left arm did on the way down. Is keeping your left arm straighter one of the things you're working on or is your pro happy with that?

Have you tried consciously trying to keep your wrists from straightening so the club goes over the top of the ball, just as an exercise to see if it can be done?
		
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Hi Gary, no, he is not unhappy with my left arm. I guess there are some things which at 46 I am going to find difficult, especially as I am no where near as flexible as I used to be.

If I try to keep my wrists from straightening, this is kind of the drill he has me doing. It works fine doing it slowly, but at full chat it just unhinges.

Thanks to James and bob, I think if I combine the two, then I get somewhere near where I want to be. Shame they are no longer communicating. I hit some balls tonight, and the odd one felt really nice. Didn't have the chance to record it, but I guess with all the snow I'll have plenty of chances to practice over the next few weeks, without the distraction of playing.

Once I get nearer to where I want to be, I'll go back, and have another lesson. Then start again. I love golf, but why is it so complicated?


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## Region3 (Feb 7, 2012)

It's only as complicated as we make it 

Have you tried the drill where you hit a 2nd object 4-6" after the ball?

Or maybe pretend you're playing a cover drive!


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## sawtooth (Feb 7, 2012)

Just a thought, have you experimented with lifting your left heel of the ground? One of the reasons why some players do this is to allow a full shoulder turn in players that are not the most flexible. If you try to swing back with a straight left arm but feel you hit a stop then lifting that left heel enables the shoulder turn to complete.

Acts like a trigger at the downswing as well because the left heel plants back down, then hips rotate then finally shoulders. Dont take my word for it, read about Leslie King.


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## USER1999 (Feb 7, 2012)

Region3 said:



			It's only as complicated as we make it 

Have you tried the drill where you hit a 2nd object 4-6" after the ball?

Or maybe pretend you're playing a cover drive!
		
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I was never any good at cricket.

Normally if I hit. Second object, 6" in front of the ball, it is the same ball, and I double hit it.


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## USER1999 (Feb 7, 2012)

sawtooth said:



			Just a thought, have you experimented with lifting your left heel of the ground? One of the reasons why some players do this is to allow a full shoulder turn in players that are not the most flexible. If you try to swing back with a straight left arm but feel you hit a stop then lifting that left heel enables the shoulder turn to complete.

Acts like a trigger at the downswing as well because the left heel plants back down, then hips rotate then finally shoulders. Dont take my word for it, read about Leslie King.
		
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I'm worried if I do this I will end up with a swing like Rickg, who doesn't seem to be able to keep either foot on the ground at any stage in his swing. It is like levitation, only worse.


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## connor (Feb 7, 2012)

i dont kno anything about golf swings but i notice your hands do what i wish mine did. When i get to the top of the back swing mine go forwards (the opposite way to yours) and this is what im trying to stop with the pro but for the life of me its hard as hell!!!  aprrently it is a big reason of my swing plane which brings on my slice


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## SocketRocket (Feb 7, 2012)

Murph.

You have a nice tempo and most of your swing is very good.

Your problem is (as you already know) due to casting in the downswing.  Now why are you casting?  I know you dont want to.

I think the problem is due to you getting too steep in the back and downswing,  this is creating an out to in swingpath that encourages an early release as you try to rescue it by pulling up out of the shot and throwing the club outwards.   If you look at your down the line video and stop it halfway up the clubshaft is pointing well inside the ball to target line, if you do the same halfway down you will see the same.  Look at where the club exits in the follow through, it is very high, almost up over your left shoulder.

Try to keep the club more on plane through the swing, think of the clubshaft tracing the extended ball to target line, shallow it out a bit.    This will allow you to feel more natural with leading down with the butt of the clubshaft and swing more from the inside.

I dont mean to be too critical of your swing, I can see that you have worked hard on it and have some very good things going on.  Please let me know if I have not explained this clearly?


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## Jimbooo (Feb 7, 2012)

Hi Murph

I'm no swing expert, but I *can* tell you what has worked for me in terms of getting lag.  Until fairly recently I've had a big problem with uber-high ball flight.  After a lesson, my pro got me to try the following:  From the top of your backswing, try to leave your arms *behind* on the downswing - leave your left bicep next to your left pectorial for as long as possible - almost like you keep that top-of-the-backswing shape for the entire downswing.  He explained I was too armsy and I should be letting my body/shoulder turn pull the arms down naturally instead of consciously doing it - and this is a nice feely way to do it.

I tried this, and almost instantly really started to hit the ball... I mean lower, more penetrating, and it felt like nothing I'd hit before - like something has majorly clicked and I now *get* it. It makes a totally different (nice!) sound and my hands are now definitely ahead of the ball at impact.

Nice swing you have there!


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## rickg (Feb 7, 2012)

murphthemog said:



			I'm worried if I do this I will end up with a swing like Rickg, who doesn't seem to be able to keep either foot on the ground at any stage in his swing. It is like levitation, only worse.
		
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Ouch!!!!! :angry:

Right that's it...the video is coming out.......:ears:


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