# Football fans



## Midnight (Mar 15, 2016)

To all football fans I would like to pick your brains.

 Neil Lennon managed to do a very good job with Celtic, but has failed to do anything with Bolton.

Is this just down to the money  and players that he had at Celtic or is the Championship just a very hard league?

I have only picked Lennon as he is one of the latest to go. I know there are other examples from other leagues.

Not interested in slagging any team or manager off, I support Forest and we are in turmoil at the moment so lots to slag off there.&#128546;


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## Grogger (Mar 15, 2016)

It's because the SPL is a terrible standard of football and Celtic dwarf the other teams financially giving them a bigger advantage. 

Thought Lennon may have done a better job at Bolton but to be fair he's been fighting an uphill battle with the state the club is in. Although he did buy Heskey so maybe he's not all that good?


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 15, 2016)

Bolton are in meltdown. He had to cut the wage bill, get rid of better players and was unable to replace them. In the meantime other teams are spending big or have built a team. Unfair to judge Lennon on this. He should not have chosen Bolton, it was a bad move.

The championship is a tough league but often you don't know what goes on behind the scenes. I heard one former championship manager interviewed recently who was told by his chairman to cut the wage bill by a third in one season. He did that and prevented relegation but of course the fans thought he had failed. They didn't know the restrictions he was working to. Teams who drop from the PL get decimated if they don't bounce back up quickly, the wage bill is just too much to cope without sky money.


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## pbrown7582 (Mar 15, 2016)

Was a mamouth task at Bolton for anyone given the financial state.


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## davidy233 (Mar 15, 2016)

It's the difference between having a massive budget compared to any other club in the league and inheriting a bunch of rubbish at a club which is a whisker away from not existing anymore.


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## Birchy (Mar 15, 2016)

People forget his budget wasn't bad at the start. He has brought in plenty players too, some utter garbage. A lot of clubs with less wages to play with too for signings etc.

The stories I've heard from reliable sources are pointing towards him losing the plot completely. When the pressure is on you need composure and to keep your head.

Some of his decisions the last 6-8 weeks have been baffling to say the least.

He got found out imo, when things got really tough he couldn't cope.


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## sawtooth (Mar 15, 2016)

I could win the league with Celtic.

But in fairness to Lennon, Bolton don't have a pot to pee in so very difficult to come in and turn things around.


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## Val (Mar 15, 2016)

Neil Lennon is a decent coach, he had Celtic in the last 16 of the CL with an average side and he had the famous win against Barca at Celtix park. He went toe to toe with some decent sides in the CL and done good despite having to constantly move players on for profit and recruit for buttons, players like Wanyama, Forster, Hooper and others all shone in the CL and made Celtic good profit. Few clubs could absorb that sort of change constantly which ultimately led to Lennon leaving Celtic. Celtic are now a selling club and will be for a long time. 

I believe he did a decent job at Bolton where he took over from Freedman whilst bottom of the league and finished the season with Bolton 10 points above the drop. This season has just been mental, it would have any manager fail and plenty have at other clubs in similar circumstances.

I believe he's a decent manager and would show his worth at a stable club and I believe he'd do a decent job in the premiership.


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## Midnight (Mar 15, 2016)

Some interesting replies there.  As said only picked Lennon as latest one. I agree he did a very good job at Celtic and I don't expect like many things you go from beinga good coach to a bad one overnight.

Is it a case of sometimes it just does not work no matter what. Look at David Moyes for another example he went to Utd and had the money to spend but it didn't turn out well. Then you look at the Bournemouth manager, think he left there with a cracking rep, went to Burnley(I think) didn't work out then has worked wonders back at Bournemouth


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 15, 2016)

Val said:



			Neil Lennon is a decent coach, he had Celtic in the last 16 of the CL with an average side and he had the famous win against Barca at Celtix park. He went toe to toe with some decent sides in the CL and done good despite having to constantly move players on for profit and recruit for buttons, players like Wanyama, Forster, Hooper and others all shone in the CL and made Celtic good profit. Few clubs could absorb that sort of change constantly which ultimately led to Lennon leaving Celtic. Celtic are now a selling club and will be for a long time. 

I believe he did a decent job at Bolton where he took over from Freedman whilst bottom of the league and finished the season with Bolton 10 points above the drop. This season has just been mental, it would have any manager fail and plenty have at other clubs in similar circumstances.

I believe he's a decent manager and would show his worth at a stable club and I believe he'd do a decent job in the premiership.
		
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I think this is a fair assessment.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 15, 2016)

midnight, I cannot get my head around what is going off at forest at the moment. Having dougie freedman as a manager was never going to work. His situation at forest is similar to Lennons.
Thing is with Dougie he has never really done it anywhere and I never really saw what he was going to bring. The next appointment is vitally important. I have loads of pals who follow forest and are massively frustrated at the moment. Fingers crossed.


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## Midnight (Mar 15, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			midnight, I cannot get my head around what is going off at forest at the moment. Having dougie freedman as a manager was never going to work. His situation at forest is similar to Lennons.
Thing is with Dougie he has never really done it anywhere and I never really saw what he was going to bring. The next appointment is vitally important. I have loads of pals who follow forest and are massively frustrated at the moment. Fingers crossed.
		
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I don't think any forest fans understand what is going on mate. Your right when you say the next appointment  is really important, but who in there  right mind would want to come to Forest with everything that has gone on ???


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 16, 2016)

Lots of good managers about but they never get a chance with clueless impatient deluded fans.

A section of Hearts fans starting to moan about our manager.
We are running the Dons close for second spot and miles clear in third place of the SPL.
Our first season back from relegation having come close to being non existent.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 16, 2016)

Grogger said:



			It's because the SPL is a terrible standard of football and Celtic dwarf the other teams financially giving them a bigger advantage. 

Thought Lennon may have done a better job at Bolton but to be fair he's been fighting an uphill battle with the state the club is in. Although he did buy Heskey so maybe he's not all that good?
		
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Easy generalisation........perhaps you can explain how former SPL 'average' players seem to do quite well in the EPL when they are transferred. 
Kyle Lafferty springs to mind:lol:


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## Jensen (Mar 16, 2016)

Newcastle got relegated from premier league in 2009, and came straight back up the following year under Chris Hughton I think. If memory serves me right the squad wasnt strengthend, but he got them straight back.
The man in charge when they went down was none other than Alan Shearer


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 16, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Easy generalisation........perhaps you can explain how former SPL 'average' players seem to do quite well in the EPL when they are transferred. 
Kyle Lafferty springs to mind:lol:
		
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Eh?

What exactly has Kyle Lafferty achieved in the Premier League.

Gary Naismith has done reasonably well but, in the main, the only Scots to do much at that level in recent times have been the odd one or two who came down as kids e.g. Darren Fletcher.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 16, 2016)

Jensen said:



			Newcastle got relegated from premier league in 2009, and came straight back up the following year under Chris Hughton I think. If memory serves me right the squad wasnt strengthend, but he got them straight back.
The man in charge when they went down was none other than Alan Shearer
		
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The key there was that they kept the team together. Had they not gone straight back up the team would have been broken up and you would have been scraping the barrel. Newcastle could easily then have followed the many teams in the Championship who get stuck. I'm not a huge fan of Shearer but you can't blame him for them going down. He made no impact at all, no bounce, but the rot was already there.

I think with managers it is the same as players. Sometimes a club suits you, the set up, the players etc. Everything is balanced and you perform well. Then you move and it just does not fit so well. Moyes is a great example. Still a good manager and will do a good job another time. A lot of Championship teams have high expectations but the budgets don't match those. Managers need to build a team in those situations over time but they are rarely given that time. Moyes took a number of up and down years before he made Everton consistent. In all likelihood a Championship chairman would have sacked him during a down season and so the cycle would have to start again.

In any division most teams at the top tend to be the ones who spend the most on transfers and wages. Not always but pretty much.


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## Val (Mar 16, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Eh?

What exactly has Kyle Lafferty achieved in the Premier League.

Gary Naismith has done reasonably well but, in the main, the only Scots to do much at that level in recent times have been the odd one or two who came down as kids e.g. Darren Fletcher.
		
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Hmmm, I hope you do mean Gary and have just forgotten about Stephen 

Alan Hutton
Charlie Adam 
Jelavic
Wanyama
Forster 

All quickly off the top of my head have left Scotland for the Premiership and done well


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## Grogger (Mar 16, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Easy generalisation........perhaps you can explain how former SPL 'average' players seem to do quite well in the EPL when they are transferred. 
Kyle Lafferty springs to mind:lol:
		
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Yeah cause he's ripping the premier league apart!!!

EDIT: You referred to them as average as well. Not me. I agree with you though.


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## Jensen (Mar 16, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm not a huge fan of Shearer but you can't blame him for them going down. He made no impact at all, no bounce, but the rot was already there.
.
		
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Granted they were pretty much doomed when he took over for the last 5 games. However in this brief spell he had no impact whatsoever, it was the same players and formation. He only achieved 1 victory and that was against Middlesbrough.
His copybook nonetheless still shows he was the manager in charge when they were relegated.


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## davidy233 (Mar 16, 2016)

Grogger said:



			Yeah cause he's ripping the premier league apart!!!

EDIT: You referred to them as average as well. Not me. I agree with you though.
		
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Ross McCormack was a good but not particularly outstanding SPL player - as was Robert Snodgrass (actually he was playing outside the top division) - both of them did OK down South in a Leeds side which was obviously only ever going to be a stepping stone to something better - a club a bit like Bolton actually


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## Grogger (Mar 16, 2016)

davidy233 said:



			Ross McCormack was a good but not particularly outstanding SPL player - as was Robert Snodgrass (actually he was playing outside the top division) - both of them did OK down South in a Leeds side which was obviously only ever going to be a stepping stone to something better - a club a bit like Bolton actually
		
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Hahahaha Ross McCormack went to something better!! 

Fulham!!! 
Good try :rofl:

The SPL is terrible and I feel for Scottish football fans having to endure it. Lennon was never going to do badly at Celtic. Ronny Deila is terrible yet he's still won silverware and will probably win the league this year. Not sure why the 2 people on here who've quoted my posts seem to think I have a problem with some Scottish players?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 16, 2016)

Val said:



			Hmmm, I hope you do mean Gary and have just forgotten about Stephen 

Alan Hutton
Charlie Adam 
Jelavic
Wanyama
Forster 

All quickly off the top of my head have left Scotland for the Premiership and done well
		
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The bottom three on that list aren't Scottish, and the other two I wouldn't pay in washers.

As for which of the Naismiths I meant, it is the one currently struggling to get in the Norwich side  struggling near the bottom.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 16, 2016)

Grogger said:



			Hahahaha Ross McCormack went to something better!! 

Fulham!!! 
Good try :rofl:

The SPL is terrible and I feel for Scottish football fans having to endure it. Lennon was never going to do badly at Celtic. Ronny Deila is terrible yet he's still won silverware and will probably win the league this year. Not sure why the 2 people on here who've quoted my posts seem to think I have a problem with some Scottish players?
		
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Only until the summer and then he's gone. Lennon was on a hiding to nothing given everything that was going on off the pitch and it had to have had an effect on him and the players. I hope they can get things back on an even keel now Holdsworth has taken over and they can get back to the Championship next year and the PL in seasons to come


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## Val (Mar 16, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			The bottom three on that list aren't Scottish, and the other two I wouldn't pay in washers.

As for which of the Naismiths I meant, it is the one currently struggling to get in the Norwich side  struggling near the bottom.
		
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Who mentioned Scottish? The phrase used was players from the SPL who moved to the Premiership. There are tonnes of players I could mention. 

As for Naismith, it will be both Naismiths who starred for Everton and did very well. Stephen Naismith moved to Norwich at the end of the Jan transfer window and scored on his debut, hardly struggling to get in the side is he? Gary Naismith played at Everton for years after moving from Hearts and he's now managing in Scotland I believe.

Hutton and Adam played with top sides and do fine at both but granted both not at the level the once were. 

If you are going to have a dig at least be accurate.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 16, 2016)

Val said:



			Who mentioned Scottish? The phrase used was players from the SPL who moved to the Premiership. There are tonnes of players I could mention. 

As for Naismith, it will be both Naismiths who starred for Everton and did very well. Stephen Naismith moved to Norwich at the end of the Jan transfer window and scored on his debut, hardly struggling to get in the side is he? Gary Naismith played at Everton for years after moving from Hearts and he's now managing in Scotland I believe.

Hutton and Adam played with top sides and do fine at both but granted both not at the level the once were. 

If you are going to have a dig at least be accurate.
		
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I am being very accurate.

Adam was hardly a roaring success at Liverpool, has been very mixed at Stoke and was only really successful at Blackpool, primarily in the Championship.

Hutton is, has and always will be a poor full-back at the Premier League level and after his initial impact at Norwich Naismith cannot currently get in the team that is really struggling for goals.

In the past there have been some truly great players who have come South like Hansen, Dalglish etc; but that haslong since become a distant memory. Nowadays they are far more likely to be found in the Championship.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 16, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			I am being very accurate.

Adam was hardly a roaring success at Liverpool, has been very mixed at Stoke and was only really successful at Blackpool, primarily in the Championship.

Hutton is, has and always will be a poor full-back at the Premier League level and after his initial impact at Norwich Naismith cannot currently get in the team that is really struggling for goals.

In the past there have been some truly great players who have come South like Hansen, Dalglish etc; but that haslong since become a distant memory. Nowadays they are far more likely to be found in the Championship.
		
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Nobody was talking about greats.........Grogger obviously has a bit of a chip on his shoulder with SPL footballers.
As this thread was about fans he quickly turned that around.

Nobody has even mentioned that regular EPL player Whittaker yet:lol:


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## Grogger (Mar 16, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Nobody was talking about greats.........*Grogger obviously has a bit of a chip on his shoulder with Scots footballers.*
As this thread was about fans he quickly turned that around.

Nobody has even mentioned that regular EPL player Whittaker yet:lol:
		
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Do I? 

Considering my clubs greatest ever player was Scottish I don't think you're correct. All I said was that the SPL is a terrible standard of football. Which is true. Any manager can do well in that league with financial backing. Lennon being the prime example. 

My first post on here was on topic. I never even mentioned any Scottish footballers.


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## Val (Mar 16, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			I am being very accurate.

Adam was hardly a roaring success at Liverpool, has been very mixed at Stoke and was only really successful at Blackpool, primarily in the Championship.

Hutton is, has and always will be a poor full-back at the Premier League level and after his initial impact at Norwich Naismith cannot currently get in the team that is really struggling for goals.

In the past there have been some truly great players who have come South like Hansen, Dalglish etc; but that haslong since become a distant memory. Nowadays they are far more likely to be found in the Championship.
		
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You weren't being accurate when you discounted non Scottish players who moved the the Premiership from Scotland. In the context of the discussion all relevant and many excellent like Forster and Wanyam as mention plus, Cuellar, Boomsong, Gordon, even Steven Fletcher has had his moments of brilliance but fleetingly, likewise Whittaker, there's Alan McGregor who did fine in the Premiership and will likely return when Hull go up, Boruc all be it via Italy, likewise Larsson via Spain and many many others. It would probably surprise you because you are just thinking Scottish.

Hutton isn't a defender, he should have been a winger. He was amazing going forward and I understand why Spurs took him but he couldn't defend worth a monkeys. Disagree on Adam, he done ok at Liverpool and has been very good for Stoke.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 16, 2016)

Val said:



			You weren't being accurate when you discounted non Scottish players who moved the the Premiership from Scotland. In the context of the discussion all relevant and many excellent like Forster and Wanyam as mention plus, Cuellar, Boomsong, Gordon, even Steven Fletcher has had his moments of brilliance but fleetingly, likewise Whittaker, there's Alan McGregor who did fine in the Premiership and will likely return when Hull go up, Boruc all be it via Italy, likewise Larsson via Spain and many many others. It would probably surprise you because you are just thinking Scottish.

Hutton isn't a defender, he should have been a winger. He was amazing going forward and I understand why Spurs took him but he couldn't defend worth a monkeys. Disagree on Adam, he done ok at Liverpool and has been very good for Stoke.
		
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You were doing well until mentioned Boomsong 

Adam was a carthorse for us - still can't believe Kenny signed him 

But there has been plenty of decent players that have moved from the SPL into the Prem and done well and plenty more will come.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 16, 2016)

Val said:



			You weren't being accurate when you discounted non Scottish players who moved the the Premiership from Scotland. In the context of the discussion all relevant and many excellent like Forster and Wanyam as mention plus, Cuellar, Boomsong, Gordon, even Steven Fletcher has had his moments of brilliance but fleetingly, likewise Whittaker, there's Alan McGregor who did fine in the Premiership and will likely return when Hull go up, Boruc all be it via Italy, likewise Larsson via Spain and many many others. It would probably surprise you because you are just thinking Scottish.

Hutton isn't a defender, he should have been a winger. He was amazing going forward and I understand why Spurs took him but he couldn't defend worth a monkeys. Disagree on Adam, he done ok at Liverpool and has been very good for Stoke.
		
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Not many Liverpool or Stoke fans would agree with you.

Back to the point about Lennon he has never previously been tested as a manager since at Celtic he enjoyed such an advantage over the other teams.

At Bolton, according to their fans on here, he wasted money and when that ran out proved to be incapable of motivating his players.

The chance of him managing in the Premier League in the foreseeable future would seem remote at the very least.

BTW I think your inclusion of Craig Gordon, Carlos Cuellar and Boomsong smacks of desperation. None exactly made a mark down here, well not a positive one anyway.


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## Val (Mar 16, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You were doing well until mentioned Boomsong 

Adam was a carthorse for us - still can't believe Kenny signed him 

But there has been plenty of decent players that have moved from the SPL into the Prem and done well and plenty more will come.
		
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Ok, Boomsong was a dud and Rangers stole that money. I thought Adam did ok at Liverpool but the jersey might just have been too big for him. Talented lad


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 16, 2016)

Val said:



			Ok, Boomsong was a dud and Rangers stole that money. I thought Adam did ok at Liverpool but the jersey might just have been too big for him. Talented lad
		
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I think he has a very good left foot but a bollard has more movement and he is a bit nasty and snidey with it. Can hit a great ball though with that left foot.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 16, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Back to the point about Lennon he has never previously been tested as a manager since at Celtic he enjoyed such an advantage over the other teams.
		
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In his first year he was still competing with Rangers. OK they were starting to meltdown but at least there was a domestic contest. He also took Celtic to the last 16 of the Champions League which is a great achievement for a Scottish club considering the financial disparity nowadays. Pretty sure they beat Barcelona as well? How's Wenger and Arsenal getting on with that?

All the "SPL isn't as good as EPL" chat is incredibly tedious and news to absolutely nobody.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 16, 2016)

FairwayDodger said:



			In his first year he was still competing with Rangers. OK they were starting to meltdown but at least there was a domestic contest. He also took Celtic to the last 16 of the Champions League which is a great achievement for a Scottish club considering the financial disparity nowadays. Pretty sure they beat Barcelona as well? How's Wenger and Arsenal getting on with that?

All the "SPL isn't as good as EPL" chat is incredibly tedious and news to absolutely nobody.
		
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I agree it is tedious but wasn't that the original point; why had Lennon succeeded in Scotland but failed at Bolton?


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## Val (Mar 16, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Not many Liverpool or Stoke fans would agree with you.

Back to the point about Lennon he has never previously been tested as a manager since at Celtic he enjoyed such an advantage over the other teams.

At Bolton, according to their fans on here, he wasted money and when that ran out proved to be incapable of motivating his players.

The chance of him managing in the Premier League in the foreseeable future would seem remote at the very least.
		
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Never tested? In sure Pep would have liked another go at him at Celtic Park.

You can't say he was never tested when he took an average Celtic side to the CL last 16 and managed to get to the group stages through the qualifiers

Neil Lennon never got the credit he deserves at Celtic, Ronnie Deilas struggles particularly in Europe should tell you how good a job he done. Both Strachan and O'Neil had better teams that Lennon and Lennon probably just has the better record on them.

I agree on his chances on managing in the Premiership though, very remote but reckon at the right job he could do a Martinez


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 16, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			I agree it is tedious but wasn't that the original point; why had Lennon succeeded in Scotland but failed at Bolton?
		
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He went from a stable club to a basket case. Scotland v England thing is a red herring.


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## Val (Mar 16, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			I agree it is tedious but wasn't that the original point; why had Lennon succeeded in Scotland but failed at Bolton?
		
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I think it's quite obvious to anyone why he's failed this year, does that turn him into a bad coach? Why did Lambert and those before fail at Villa despite doing well in England at previous clubs? Boardroom trouble is the death for managers


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 16, 2016)

FairwayDodger said:



			He went from a stable club to a basket case. Scotland v England thing is a red herring.
		
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Money to spend vs skint. Mind you I like the basket case analogy for Bolton's woes


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## Midnight (Mar 16, 2016)

As I said at the start , I only picked Lennon due to being one of the latest to go not to have a go at whose leauge is best. 

You could look at Eddie Howe(don't know if I spelt it correctly) for another good example. Has been cracking at Bournemouth but what went wrong at Burnley?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 16, 2016)

One good season in three in the CL and the man's a hero.

As for managers at Villa under Lerner's ownership O'Neill did pretty well. Over Lambert's spell in charge they continued to support him in the transfer market.


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## Val (Mar 16, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			One good season in three in the CL and the man's a hero.

As for managers at Villa under Lerner's ownership O'Neill did pretty well. Over Lambert's spell in charge they continued to support him in the transfer market.
		
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Surprised you didn't mention Houllier or Mcleish, both proven mangers and both will go down as Villa failures and likewise the 2 that followed Lambert. O'Neill was the only one supported with cash, the rest weren't. A bigger poisoned chalice than Newcastle.

Celtic getting to the CL is major success when you consider some of the qualifiers, we had Arsenal one year ffs. Coming out the CL third is a result so he didn't have 1 good in three he had one exceptional year in 3.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 16, 2016)

Val said:



			Surprised you didn't mention Houllier or Mcleish, both proven mangers and both will go down as Villa failures and likewise the 2 that followed Lambert. O'Neill was the only one supported with cash, the rest weren't. A bigger poisoned chalice than Newcastle.

Celtic getting to the CL is major success when you consider some of the qualifiers, we had Arsenal one year ffs. Coming out the CL third is a result so he didn't have 1 good in three he had one exceptional year in 3.
		
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Will have to agree to disagree over Lennon as we clearly see his capabilities and achievements differently.

As for Lambert he got plenty of support in the market from Lerner but could notconsolidate O'Neill's legacy.

McLeish was doomed from the outset as the fans were never likely to accept him and Houllier was only ever a short-term panic appointment.

Sherwood was just a case of a man out of his depth with only very limited managerial experience.


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## Val (Mar 16, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Will have to agree to disagree over Lennon as we clearly see his capabilities and achievements differently.

As for Lambert he got plenty of support in the market from Lerner but could notconsolidate O'Neill's legacy.

McLeish was doomed from the outset as the fans were never likely to accept him and Houllier was only ever a short-term panic appointment.

Sherwood was just a case of a man out of his depth with only very limited managerial experience.
		
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Looks like we'll disagree on Lambert too


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 16, 2016)

Val said:



			Looks like we'll disagree on Lambert too
		
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Nett spend Â£50 million over less than three years.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 17, 2016)

With Brighton looking to replace Newcastle in the EPL......... I wonder if Newcastle fans think the Chris Houghton/Colin Calderwood partnership is still useless.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 17, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			With Brighton looking to replace Newcastle in the EPL......... I wonder if Newcastle fans think the Chris Houghton/Colin Calderwood partnership is still useless.
		
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I think that Newcastle fans didn't think that partnership was useless anyway


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## Jensen (Mar 17, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			With Brighton looking to replace Newcastle in the EPL......... I wonder if Newcastle fans think the Chris Houghton/Colin Calderwood partnership is still useless.
		
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They never thought that, Hughton brought them straight back up from the Championship. Toon fans were annoyed when Ashley sacked him and replaced him with Pardew. Although to be fair I thought Pardew did a decent job


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## Val (Mar 17, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Nett spend Â£50 million over less than three years.
		
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How does that compare to clubs relegated in the same period which is the only way to benchmark it.

Although Â£50m is a lot of dough, in Premiership terms it's chicken feed over 3 years when you consider what average strikers have moved around for.


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## sawtooth (Mar 17, 2016)

Did you say Craig Gordon?

[video=youtube;LHhth9CmbJ8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHhth9CmbJ8[/video]


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## Val (Mar 17, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Did you say Craig Gordon?

[video=youtube;LHhth9CmbJ8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHhth9CmbJ8[/video]
		
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Superb till he got injured


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 17, 2016)

Val - Very true. A case of what could have been.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 17, 2016)

Val said:



			Superb till he got injured
		
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And even after .....he is still better than most EPL keepers.
You don't get to be the worlds most expensive goalie by accident.


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## sawtooth (Mar 17, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			You don't get to be the worlds most expensive goalie by accident.
		
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True. Look at the record sums paid for Carroll (Â£35M) and Torres (Â£50M). Gordon must have been sheer quality.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 17, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			And even after .....he is still better than most EPL keepers.
You don't get to be the worlds most expensive goalie by accident.
		
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Sorry but no - and being expensive doesn't automatically mean too quality


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 17, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			True. Look at the record sums paid for Carroll (Â£35M) and Torres (Â£50M). Gordon must have been sheer quality. 

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He was at the time. [I think you may have a selective memory]

A really bad injury slowed him down a bit but still a class act.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 17, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			He was at the time.
		
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Yet he went to Sunderland as opposed to a top club.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 17, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yet he went to Sunderland as opposed to a top club.
		
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He signed for a then world record fee for Sunderland, perhaps the 'top' clubs could not match them.
If I recall correctly, there were quite a few after him.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 17, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			He signed for a then world record fee for Sunderland, perhaps the 'top' clubs could not match them.
If I recall correctly, there were quite a few after him.
		
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In 2007 the top clubs all had keepers better than him 

Carroll signed for a record fee

And it wasn't a world record fee for a GK 

He went for 9 mil to Sunderland in 2007

Buffon went to Juve in 2001 for around 30mil


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 17, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In 2007 the top clubs all had keepers better than him 

Carroll signed for a record fee

And it wasn't a world record fee for a GK 

He went for 9 mil to Sunderland in 2007

Buffon went to Juve in 2001 for around 30mil
		
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Yes sorry, British record fee
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Gordon
The rest of the stuff on here.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 17, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Yes sorry, British record fee
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Gordon
The rest of the stuff on here.
		
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He was ok  -believe he was dropped midway through his first season after letting in 7 one day and after having a poor start to the season and the went on to spend most of the time on the bench or injured with the odd start thrown into the equation 

We got Reina the year before for Â£4mil less than what Sunderland paid -Â£9mil was way over priced .


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 17, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			True. Look at the record sums paid for Carroll (Â£35M) and Torres (Â£50M). Gordon must have been sheer quality. 

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How much has Carroll been sold for in all the deals and has anyone got value for money?


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## Val (Mar 17, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He was ok  -believe he was dropped midway through his first season after letting in 7 one day and after having a poor start to the season and the went on to spend most of the time on the bench or injured with the odd start thrown into the equation 

We got Reina the year before for Â£4mil less than what Sunderland paid -Â£9mil was way over priced .
		
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Â£9m was too much but he was a class keeper


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 17, 2016)

Val said:



			Â£9m was too much but he was a class keeper
		
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I guess in Scotland when he played there but didn't see him there  - but it didn't seem to happen when he moved down. Going to Sunderland a team often exposed prob didn't help.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 17, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I guess in Scotland when he played there but didn't see him there  - but it didn't seem to happen when he moved down. Going to Sunderland a team often exposed prob didn't help.
		
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My goodness, that is what we have been trying to tell you.
Sooooooooo many English experts on Scottish football here, trouble is who don't seem to watch any.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 17, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			My goodness, that is what we have been trying to tell you.
Sooooooooo many English experts on Scottish football here, trouble is who don't seem to watch any.
		
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So many experts on everything. Mind you don't you think Scottish football is broken in the current format with a virtual one horse race every year


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 17, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			My goodness, that is what we have been trying to tell you.
Sooooooooo many English experts on Scottish football here, trouble is who don't seem to watch any.
		
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? I gave my judgment on Gordon based on what he did in the English game. I never said anything about his time at Hearts. 

It wasn't that long ago you were declaring him the worlds most expensive GK


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 17, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			So many experts on everything. Mind you don't you think Scottish football is broken in the current format with a virtual one horse race every year
		
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Have a wee squint at the SPL table:lol:
Whilst you are at it check out the last few years Scottish FA and League Cup winners.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 17, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Have a wee squint at the SPL table:lol:
Whilst you are at it check out the last few years Scottish FA and League Cup winners.
		
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Granted the cups are shared around to a degree but the SPL???? Who wins most seasons?


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## Val (Mar 17, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Have a wee squint at the SPL table:lol:
Whilst you are at it check out the last few years Scottish FA and League Cup winners.
		
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Don't kid yourself, no one other than Celtic or Rangers has won it in over 30 years


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 17, 2016)

Val said:



			Don't kid yourself, no one other than Celtic or Rangers has won it in over 30 years
		
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Is it really that long ago now since Aberdeen won the title ??


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## Val (Mar 17, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is it really that long ago now since Aberdeen won the title ??
		
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1985


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 17, 2016)

Val said:



			1985
		
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Blimey - I was living in Peterhead at the time as my dad was at Buchan. Went a few times to Pittodrie. Over the years when we were up there - Dads mate was a ST holder


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## NWJocko (Mar 17, 2016)

Val said:



			1985
		
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Could be some 21st celebration in May


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## Val (Mar 17, 2016)

NWJocko said:



			Could be some 21st celebration in May 

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No questioning your maths mate but you do mean 31st? :rofl:


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## NWJocko (Mar 17, 2016)

Val said:



			No questioning your maths mate but you do mean 31st? :rofl:
		
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Ha ha, sausage fingers typing it getting off the train! 

No chance of it happening anyway right enough :rofl:


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 17, 2016)

My point. At best a two horse race and without Rangers a cake walk. Can't be good for Scottish footie but I can't see how it's going to change soon. Almost as much as a done deal as the French league every season with PSG


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## Val (Mar 17, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			My point. At best a two horse race and without Rangers a cake walk. Can't be good for Scottish footie but I can't see how it's going to change soon. Almost as much as a done deal as the French league every season with PSG
		
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Unlike the premiership Homer (this year aside) double the teams and how many winners in 20 years?

Most leagues in Europe are similar except Scotland seems to get it right from many quarters.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 17, 2016)

Val said:



			Unlike the premiership Homer (this year aside) double the teams and how many winners in 20 years?
		
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Fair point well made. I'd argue though the PL sides have done better come the CL though


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 17, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Fair point well made. I'd argue though the PL sides have done better come the CL though
		
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PL is probably the richest league in Europe, SPL towards the other end of the scale so nothing you wouldn't expect.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 17, 2016)

FairwayDodger said:



			PL is probably the richest league in Europe, SPL towards the other end of the scale so nothing you wouldn't expect.
		
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Celtic have done pretty well a number of times over the past decade or so - especially when considering the comparable squads


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 17, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Fair point well made. I'd argue though the PL sides have done better come the CL though
		
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Which PL do you mean?


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## Val (Mar 17, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Fair point well made. I'd argue though the PL sides have done better come the CL though
		
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Can't disagree


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## Val (Mar 17, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Which PL do you mean?
		
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Don't be pedantic, it's obvious what he means

PL equals premier league = England

Premiership = Scotland


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