# Spiethgate The Open on the 13th



## JohnnyDee (Jul 23, 2017)

I'll start it.

What's your view?

Never seen anything like it in my life. I expect this may run and run in the media.


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## fundy (Jul 23, 2017)

JohnnyDee said:



*I'll start it*.

What's your view?

Never seen anything like it in my life. I expect this may run and run in the media.
		
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or you could just post on the open thread along with everyone else


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## upsidedown (Jul 23, 2017)

Don't see a problem .


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## Junior (Jul 23, 2017)

Took a while but got there in the end.  No dramas really.  Last round of a major, final group etc


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## JohnnyDee (Jul 23, 2017)

fundy said:



			or you could just post on the open thread along with everyone else
		
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Don't agree as I felt it merited its own.


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## Imurg (Jul 23, 2017)

It took time to find the ball, time to establish where he could or couldn't drop it.
Yeah, it took a while but that's how long it took.
Would have been worse if the drop hadn't been done properly and a penalty given


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## GreiginFife (Jul 23, 2017)

No need for anything to run and run. Ruling sought, ruling given. Follwed ruling and played from spot allowed. Made good 5 from it. End of story.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 23, 2017)

Bit of a Van Der Velde moment.


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## palindromicbob (Jul 23, 2017)

Thought this might have been about the reports of some tool spraying silly string into his face on the practice putting green.


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## guest100718 (Jul 23, 2017)

JohnnyDee said:



			I'll start it.

What's your view?

Never seen anything like it in my life. I expect this may run and run in the media.
		
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View of what? did I miss something.


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## JohnnyDee (Jul 23, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Bit of a Van Der Velde moment.
		
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Deffos.


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## GreiginFife (Jul 23, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Bit of a Van Der Velde moment.
		
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Not really. Ven de Velde chose to do something stupid rather then use the rules/rulings available. Speith considered his options and consulted the senior rules official in Paramore and was given a ruling to follow which worked in his favour.
So, pretty much the total opposite of Van de Velde's scenario.


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## guest100718 (Jul 23, 2017)

ha ha spiethgate..


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 23, 2017)

GreiginFife said:



			Not really. Ven de Velde chose to do something stupid rather then use the rules/rulings available. Speith considered his options and consulted the senior rules official in Paramore and was given a ruling to follow which worked in his favour.
So, pretty much the total opposite of Van de Velde's scenario.
		
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The situation took an age, as if the rest of the tournament wasn't happening. It also looked like a meltdown, how wide was that tee shot?

So, not at all a total opposite &#128513;


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## GreiginFife (Jul 23, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The situation took an age, as if the rest of the tournament wasn't happening. It also looked like a meltdown, how wide was that tee shot?

So, not at all a total opposite &#128513;
		
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Looked like but wasn't. Lets see if it costs him the championship and then decide its the same. 
Other than taking an age, pretty dissimilar.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jul 23, 2017)

Nothing to talk about, he did everything within the rules


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## JohnnyDee (Jul 23, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			ha ha spiethgate..
		
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Glad someone saw where I was coming from &#128077;

I'm fairly ambivalent about it myself, as at the end of the day rules is rules, but I'm sure it will be the biggest talking point at the end of the day - unless The Martians land on the 18th green in a flying saucer and zap The Claret Jug with a laser.

It also seems to have given Spieth the zip that was missing all afternoon.


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## Hosel Fade (Jul 23, 2017)

I have no issues with what Spieth did.

The R&A are being stupid by having the range be in bounds though. No way should the tour vans be de facto parked on the golf course either so its the R&As fault tbh. Especially after they went through the trouble of making the 9th fairway OoB when playing the 10th because Day was hitting it over there on practice days


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## richy (Jul 23, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Bit of a Van Der Velde moment.
		
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How?


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## JohnnyDee (Jul 23, 2017)

richy said:



			How?
		
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I think he meant in terms of gripping out-of-ordinary golfing drama - but I am of course open to correction.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 23, 2017)

Well, there's been a 'car park' champion previously...


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## Imurg (Jul 23, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The situation took an age, as if the rest of the tournament wasn't happening.
		
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It wasn't...the tournament is between these two....


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## Hosel Fade (Jul 23, 2017)

Imurg said:



			It wasn't...the tournament is between these two....
		
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It wasn't at the time, the bogey put Spieth 1 in front of the clubhouse lead, the likely double would have put him level


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## SaintHacker (Jul 23, 2017)

All within the rules and overseen by referees so no problem. However it seems to me he's gone from a shocker of a lie to a very decent one, with only a few added yards as punishment. Not really much of a disadvantage after such a dreadful tee shot!


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## HawkeyeMS (Jul 23, 2017)

SaintHacker said:



			All within the rules and overseen by referees so no problem. However it seems to me he's gone from a shocker of a lie to a very decent one, with only a few added yards as punishment. Not really much of a disadvantage after such a dreadful tee shir!
		
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It's called using the rules to your advantage


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## guest100718 (Jul 23, 2017)

SaintHacker said:



			All within the rules and overseen by referees so no problem. However it seems to me he's gone from a shocker of a lie to a very decent one, with only a few added yards as punishment. Not really much of a disadvantage after such a dreadful tee shot!
		
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 ?... .. he paid for that lie with a shot.....


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## doublebogey7 (Jul 23, 2017)

SaintHacker said:



			All within the rules and overseen by referees so no problem. However it seems to me he's gone from a shocker of a lie to a very decent one, with only a few added yards as punishment. Not really much of a disadvantage after such a dreadful tee shot!
		
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And a penalty stroke


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## SaintHacker (Jul 23, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			?... .. he paid for that lie with a shot.....
		
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Fair point,  i actually forgot about the shot penalty when i posted that


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## SatchFan (Jul 23, 2017)

I just channel hopped and watched Wheeler Dealers for 15 minutes.


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## chrisd (Jul 23, 2017)

I had my hair cut during that incident so missed much less of the play than I thought I might


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## Imurg (Jul 23, 2017)

chrisd said:



			I had my hair cut during that incident so missed much less of the play than I thought I might
		
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You could have had it cut while a Kooch drive was in the air, you didn't need 20 minutes&#128514;


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 23, 2017)

JohnnyDee said:



			I think he meant in terms of gripping out-of-ordinary golfing drama - but I am of course open to correction.
		
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Absolutely. I'm struggling to see how people didn't see the same. The Open leader didn't play a shot for around 20 minutes whilst an extraordinary situation unfolded. No, he did not roll his trousers up but he did make a rick of his tee shot and ended up on a practice area moving around tour buses in order to find somewhere to play his shot. A bit bemusing, dramatic and all centred around one player.

If you are looking for a literal equivalent then this is not it but there are some parallels. The good news for Speith is that unlike Jean, he went on to win.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 23, 2017)

Don't see the Van de Velde relevance. One made more than one error on the hole and one made a bad swing, spoke to a referee and got a ruling and used it to his advantage to minimise the damage. It's down to the R&A to decide if a range and parked tour buses should be OOB and they didn't


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## Pathetic Shark (Jul 23, 2017)

Correct Martin.  Spieth hit a bad shot and then did everything right.   Van de Velde was just a total nob who deserved everything he got for playing that hole that way.


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## tsped83 (Jul 23, 2017)

YAWN


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## chrisd (Jul 23, 2017)

Imurg said:



			You could have had it cut while a Kooch drive was in the air, you didn't need 20 minutes&#128514;
		
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She said "short back and sides"  I said "yes, but you'll find some under my golf cap"


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## big_matt (Jul 23, 2017)

Don't think its a massive deal but really felt for Kuchar. He probably didnt get to hit a full swing in at least half an hour and when he did on the next tee it wasnt his best. Always feel that the player that loses out in these situations isnt the one who played the bad shot to start with.


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## JohnnyDee (Jul 23, 2017)

It seems one or two are struggling to separate the rules of golf, coupled with the impact of both events, and sets of choices made by the protagonists, Mr Van der Velde and Mr Spieth, in respect of the ultimate outcome of the championship in the relevant years under consideration.

I believe LT was referring to the 'viewing experience' rather than the rights, wrongs, whys and wherefores of the actual 'golfing' circumstances.

For clarification I would draw attention to post #32 in which LT mentions the concept of literalism in this context.

And now if you'll kindly indulge me.

*Gives up*


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## rosecott (Jul 23, 2017)

JohnnyDee said:



			And now if you'll kindly indulge me.

*Gives up*
		
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Johnny, in my experience, you don't know how to "give up".


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 23, 2017)

Imurg said:



			You could have had it cut while a Kooch drive was in the air, you didn't need 20 minutes&#128514;
		
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&#128514;&#128514;&#128514; sorry Chris but this is funny.


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## chrisd (Jul 23, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			&#128514;&#128514;&#128514; sorry Chris but this is funny.
		
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We'll I've got the 'ump now!     &#128514;&#128514;


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## JohnnyDee (Jul 23, 2017)

rosecott said:



			Johnny, in my experience, you don't know how to "give up".
		
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I'm a trier, Jim. A trier. 

At nine down with nine to play all I can see is a half.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 23, 2017)

chrisd said:



			We'll I've got the 'ump now!     &#128514;&#128514;
		
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If it makes you feel any better I could probably have a trim whilst  a DJ drive was in the air.

But certainly not a Kuchar drive &#128540;


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## Maninblack4612 (Jul 23, 2017)

At least Kuchar had the sense to play his second shot while Spieth was farting about. Had Monty done that at Winged Foot in 2006 he would have probably won the U. S. Open


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## Pathetic Shark (Jul 24, 2017)

chrisd said:



			She said "short back and sides"  I said "yes, but you'll find some under my golf cap"
		
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Isn't the reason you can't chip well Chris is because you haven't seen a fringe for about 30 years?


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## Orikoru (Jul 24, 2017)

I know he did everything by the rules but it's ridiculous how top players are getting away with murder in using the rules to get good lies now. Am I right in understanding that he deliberately dropped it behind some trucks so he could then take a free drop out on some nice flat practise ground? I think it's farcical that the rules allow that to be honest. Up there with that chap the other week/month who got a free drop in the bunker after digging his feet into it, or whatever it was.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 24, 2017)

Jordan's interview was very informative he said "I have been in this situation many times and have learned to take my time and not to rush into playing my shot, and to look at all my options"
He does hit a lot of poor drives so will need a good grasp of the rules.
At the end of it all Kutcher is not his problem it's up to the Refferee and the player to sort it out.
The lad is trying to win the Open.
As for the Van dear Velde comparison it could not be farther off the mark if he had done what Jordan did he would have won!..
Most amateur players could learn from this you need to know the rules as they can help you not just punish you.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 24, 2017)

Orikoru said:



			I know he did everything by the rules but it's ridiculous how top players are getting away with murder in using the rules to get good lies now. Am I right in understanding that he deliberately dropped it behind some trucks so he could then take a free drop out on some nice flat practise ground? I think it's farcical that the rules allow that to be honest. Up there with that chap the other week/month who got a free drop in the bunker after digging his feet into it, or whatever it was.
		
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Look at your first eight words ?


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## richy (Jul 24, 2017)

Orikoru said:



			I know he did everything by the rules but it's ridiculous how top players are getting away with murder in using the rules to get good lies now. Am I right in understanding that he deliberately dropped it behind some trucks so he could then take a free drop out on some nice flat practise ground? I think it's farcical that the rules allow that to be honest. Up there with that chap the other week/month who got a free drop in the bunker after digging his feet into it, or whatever it was.
		
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He didn't get away with murder he was penalised a stroke. It's only because he made a 5 through pure skill that people seem to have an issue. If he'd walked off with a 7 I doubt anyone would complain.


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## BrizoH71 (Jul 24, 2017)

I'll probably be reading too much into this, and I'm sorry if this was asked in the Open thread and thus repeating something already answered, but if the range isn't/wasn't OOB and is encompassed within the course then surely it forms an integral part of the course? 

If that is case then surely there should be no play or practise on that part of the course prior to a strokeplay event? What's different from declaring the range OOB in much the same way as the officials took out the 10th fairway as a line in for the 9th hole?


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## patricks148 (Jul 24, 2017)

I suppose its down to the R&A, never known a practice ground not be OOB


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 24, 2017)

BrizoH71 said:



			I'll probably be reading too much into this, and I'm sorry if this was asked in the Open thread and thus repeating something already answered, but if the range isn't/wasn't OOB and is encompassed within the course then surely it forms an integral part of the course? 

If that is case then surely there should be no play or practise on that part of the course prior to a strokeplay event? What's different from declaring the range OOB in much the same way as the officials took out the 10th fairway as a line in for the 9th hole?
		
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The committee determine if practice on the course before an event is allowed or not in my understanding.
At my club the range is not OOB.


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## Orikoru (Jul 24, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Look at your first eight words ?
		
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Which clarified that I wasn't criticising Spieth, I'm criticising the rules that allow him to do what he did.



richy said:



			He didn't get away with murder he was penalised a stroke. It's only because he made a 5 through pure skill that people seem to have an issue. If he'd walked off with a 7 I doubt anyone would complain.
		
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As the ball was unplayable it would have cost him a stroke regardless, and there's no way he would have got out with a 5 if he hadn't have been able to manufacture such a nice lie out of it. So in essence he did get away with murder to only end up with bogey after that drive. Yes his recovery was down to skill but also down to loopholes in the rules which allowed him to drop it on a nice flat bit of practise ground.


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## garyinderry (Jul 24, 2017)

Kutch was not to know spieth was going to play like a man possessed after that incident. 

I would say in a quiet moment, kutch would tell you, coming down the stretch he was quite happy to see Jordan knock it a mile off line and seemingly look like he was going to get flustered and potentially have an impact on the rest of his round. 

I would certainly be happy enough to see my opponent get himself into a fine mess. 

Jordan dug himself out to his credit and holed a nice putt to save bogey. 

The pros all get breaks. Rafa got a drop on 18 away from railings that have him the opportunity to get to -6 which at the time might have got him into a play off.


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## guest100718 (Jul 24, 2017)

BrizoH71 said:



			I'll probably be reading too much into this, and I'm sorry if this was asked in the Open thread and thus repeating something already answered, but if the range isn't/wasn't OOB and is encompassed within the course then surely it forms an integral part of the course? 

If that is case then surely there should be no play or practise on that part of the course prior to a strokeplay event? What's different from declaring the range OOB in much the same way as the officials took out the 10th fairway as a line in for the 9th hole?
		
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the rules allow for practice on or near a practice ground.  it's a specific exception


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## richy (Jul 24, 2017)

Orikoru said:



			Which clarified that I wasn't criticising Spieth, I'm criticising the rules that allow him to do what he did.


As the ball was unplayable it would have cost him a stroke regardless, and there's no way he would have got out with a 5 if he hadn't have been able to manufacture such a nice lie out of it. So in essence he did get away with murder to only end up with bogey after that drive. Yes his recovery was down to skill but also down to loopholes in the rules which allowed him to drop it on a nice flat bit of practise ground.
		
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So what should he have done? Played it as it lies?


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 24, 2017)

Orikoru said:



			Which clarified that I wasn't criticising Spieth, I'm criticising the rules that allow him to do what he did.


As the ball was unplayable it would have cost him a stroke regardless, and there's no way he would have got out with a 5 if he hadn't have been able to manufacture such a nice lie out of it. So in essence he did get away with murder to only end up with bogey after that drive. Yes his recovery was down to skill but also down to loopholes in the rules which allowed him to drop it on a nice flat bit of practise ground.
		
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yes I understand that but the rules are there for everyone all the players had that option if they were in his position.
The pros get away with things we can't because of the shear amount of people tents, trucks etc that would not be there when we play.
Jordan was very lucky I think it was on 15th when he hit a spectator that ball would have gone in the bushes if it was one of us.
Thats pro golf.
He can only play by the rules set by the committee the alternative is not to play by the rules we all know what that means ?


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## BrizoH71 (Jul 24, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			the rules allow for practice on or near a practice ground.  it's a specific exception
		
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Thought that was only applicable between the play of two holes? The exception to 7.1 only stipluates chipping and putting on or near a practise ground; I must be missing something (aside from my marbles  )


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## guest100718 (Jul 24, 2017)

BrizoH71 said:



			Thought that was only applicable between the play of two holes? The exception to 7.1 only stipluates chipping and putting on or near a practise ground; I must be missing something (aside from my marbles  )
		
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7 1 is before a round.


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 24, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			I suppose its down to the R&A, never known a practice ground not be OOB
		
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Practice area at my course is not OOB. I've played a few shots from there!  Biggest issue is usually finding your ball amongst the 100s if people are practising at the time!


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## bobmac (Jul 24, 2017)

http://www.golfchannel.com/video/ra...spieth-drop-no13/?cid=Email_MondayNL_20170724


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## patricks148 (Jul 24, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			Practice area at my course is not OOB. I've played a few shots from there!  Biggest issue is usually finding your ball amongst the 100s if people are practising at the time!
		
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really? i would imagine most clubs don't want people wondering a round the practice range looking for a ball then trying to play it while range users are firing ball down.

 all the ones i know that have a practice ground adjacent to the course are OOB


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## BrizoH71 (Jul 24, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			7 1 is before a round.
		
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I'm not quite sure which exception you're referring to then.. ?


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## JohnnyDee (Jul 24, 2017)

bobmac said:



http://www.golfchannel.com/video/ra...spieth-drop-no13/?cid=Email_MondayNL_20170724

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Excellent post and explains the decision fully and completely :thup: leaving no doubt whatsoever.


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## bobmac (Jul 24, 2017)

JohnnyDee said:



			Excellent post and explains the decision fully and completely :thup: leaving no doubt whatsoever.
		
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I thought so too.
Penalty drop back in line as far as he wants to the practice ground. 
Oops, big truck in the way.
Move round till its not in the way not nearer the hole


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## patricks148 (Jul 24, 2017)

bobmac said:



			I thought so too.
Penalty drop back in line as far as he wants to the practice ground. 
Oops, big truck in the way.
Move round till its not in the way not nearer the hole
		
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yes all explained pretty well. I still find it strange that the course range is not OOB. but same for the members too so fair enough


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2017)

JohnnyDee said:



			Excellent post and explains the decision fully and completely :thup: leaving no doubt whatsoever.
		
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Didn't think there was any doubt in the first place - there where two referees with him both top ones at that and he ensured everything was done by the book , they had a rules official on sky explain it , they had one of 5 live explain it and it was all quite clear and never any doubt.


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## guest100718 (Jul 24, 2017)

BrizoH71 said:



			I'm not quite sure which exception you're referring to then.. ?
		
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you asked about practicing on the course before a round......
....
... ? 
...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 24, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			yes all explained pretty well. I still find it strange that the course range is not OOB. but same for the members too so fair enough
		
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I think the answer lies in what the R&A guy said, it's not oob for members, so no need to change it for the Open.

It's probably that far from any of the holes it doesn't intefere with the playing of any, if it had been a Club member doing that on the 13th they woud of played a provisional off the tee and never found their initial tee shot.

Watching it live the crowd initially claimed to have found it the wrong side of the dune.


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## cliveb (Jul 24, 2017)

For all those perplexed by practice grounds allowed to be in bounds, the relevant rule is 33-2c.

On another note, the thing that is bothering me is this:



Hosel Fade said:



			... Especially after they went through the trouble of making the 9th fairway OoB when playing the 10th because Day was hitting it over there on practice days
		
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I wasn't aware they had done this, and I do appreciate that sometimes internal OOB is needed for health & safety reasons. (Indeed at my own club, the 7th fairway is OOB when playing the 8th).

But I've been told that internal OOB isn't allowed in professional competitions. Have I been incorrectly informed?


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## BrizoH71 (Jul 24, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			you asked about practicing on the course before a round......
....
... ? 
...
		
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Yes, which isn't permitted under 7.1; the point is, if the practise ground is deemed in play as is the case in the Golf Channel video Bob posted, allowing Speith to play from there then it has be to be considered part of the course. 

If that is the case then practise before the round shouldn't be permitted in that area whether its designated a practise area or not ... it's a grey area imo.

You said there's an exception, stating 'on or near the practise ground'; the exception to 7.1 only permits chipping/putting, not striping irons and drivers down the field. If there's another exception you're referring to, you haven't shown it.


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## corrupthalo (Jul 24, 2017)

Whether he used the rules to his advantage or not is immaterial. On a normal golfers saturday comp that ball would never have been found thus reloading and being penalized stroke and distance. Not fair that Pro's have the galleries to look for their wayward tee shots, also the lack of shouting FORE is very bad. Its as if they want the ball to hit a spectator in order to stop it going in somewhere nasty.

On a side note Speith has to be the most boring player ever to watch. Takes literally an age before he hits a shot. Feel sorry for Kuch having to wait ages between shots.


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## guest100718 (Jul 24, 2017)

BrizoH71 said:



			Yes, which isn't permitted under 7.1; the point is, if the practise ground is deemed in play as is the case in the Golf Channel video Bob posted, allowing Speith to play from there then it has be to be considered part of the course. 

If that is the case then practise before the round shouldn't be permitted in that area whether its designated a practise area or not ... it's a grey area imo.

You said there's an exception, stating 'on or near the practise ground'; the exception to 7.1 only permits chipping/putting, not striping irons and drivers down the field. If there's another exception you're referring to, you haven't shown it.
		
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you're over thinking it... its a practice ground.. its where you practice...


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## Slab (Jul 24, 2017)

corrupthalo said:



			Whether he used the rules to his advantage or not is immaterial. On a normal golfers saturday comp that ball would never have been found thus reloading and being penalized stroke and distance. *Not fair that Pro's have the galleries to look for their wayward tee shots,* also the lack of shouting FORE is very bad. Its as if they want the ball to hit a spectator in order to stop it going in somewhere nasty.

On a side note Speith has to be the most boring player ever to watch. Takes literally an age before he hits a shot. Feel sorry for Kuch having to wait ages between shots.
		
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I get that it makes their game different to ours but what's the alternative, they cant just let them search for 5 minutes every time when someone is standing right there who knows exactly where the ball is and the game can carry on if only they'd speak up

No excuse for not shouting though


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## bobmac (Jul 24, 2017)

The same............. almost

[video=youtube;-zYjhkQZ66U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zYjhkQZ66U[/video]


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## Junior (Jul 24, 2017)

There was nothing wrong with the ruling.   Is it fair that you can hit it so far off line,  into rough that without spectators you wouldn't even find your ball, then get a drop under a penalty of just one shot ?    

I guess its fair, because the rules say its fair, and Speith got lucky and made one of the greatest bogey's ever.


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 24, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			really? i would imagine most clubs don't want people wondering a round the practice range looking for a ball then trying to play it while range users are firing ball down.

 all the ones i know that have a practice ground adjacent to the course are OOB
		
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Yes and I do agree with you. As a regular user of the practice area it is a right pain having to wait every few minutes while a bunch of big slicers wander into the firing range as if you aren't there!


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## mcbroon (Jul 24, 2017)

corrupthalo said:



			On a side note Speith has to be the most boring player ever to watch. Takes literally an age before he hits a shot. Feel sorry for Kuch having to wait ages between shots.
		
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Cannot understand this viewpoint at all. The guy made an astonishing 5 on 13, nearly aced 14 and dropped the mother of all putts for eagle on 15. It was proper drama.

Slow? Maybe. Boring? Not even close.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 24, 2017)

mcbroon said:



			Cannot understand this viewpoint at all. The guy made an astonishing 5 on 13, nearly aced 14 and dropped the mother of all putts for eagle on 15. It was proper drama.

Slow? Maybe. Boring? Not even close.
		
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^^This^^ When people use the word boring for top golfers I see it as a compliment to the golfer, some complained about the height of the rough and Spieth purposely aiming at it, isn't that great course management?


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## Dasit (Jul 24, 2017)

practice range on my course is not OOB either.

If you pull a drive a bit left on the 18th you go in to the range and there are often 100s of balls on the ground...


Can actually take more than a few minutes to find them, and everyone on the range has to stop hitting


Pretty silly all in all


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## JohnnyDee (Jul 24, 2017)

bobmac said:



			The same............. almost

[video=youtube;-zYjhkQZ66U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zYjhkQZ66U[/video]
		
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There ain't nuthin' new under the sun really. Though glad you included "almost" there Bob


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2017)

mcbroon said:



			Cannot understand this viewpoint at all. The guy made an astonishing 5 on 13, nearly aced 14 and dropped the mother of all putts for eagle on 15. It was proper drama.

Slow? Maybe. Boring? Not even close.
		
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I think he is comparable to people like Hendry , Davis etc - players who are extremely talented and win but not sure if people will flock to watch them play the game,


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## njrose51 (Jul 24, 2017)

what I think is strange about the rules in Speith's case is that did he spot an opportunity and clearly manipulate the rules to his advantage? Is that fair? Rules are rules. They are there. black and white. Yes he chose to go back as far as he wanted, which was correct, yes there is line of slight relief for TIO, but did he spot an opportunity to drop his ball in between two trucks so he gets relief and find a flat piece of turf? I find that both a little bit naughty and, if honest, quite clever. In terms of the referees they had, two of the best, most experienced and most qualified, so there is no argument about whether it was right or wrong.   

What I think is very impressive though is the way he fought back. The opening nine was dire. And he could have easily crumpled under the pressure from 13 onwards but a 2-3-3-4 finish is remarkable! Such strength of mind and belief. Very impressive. Nice that he gave big credit to his caddy as well.


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## DRW (Jul 24, 2017)

What a great watch, was laughing my head off when he almost got a hole in one on the next hole, then an eagle, it was mental and great.

And my view of Spieth has changed a lot over the course of the open, great guy from what you see.


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## Maninblack4612 (Jul 24, 2017)

I wonder if the practice ground wasn't designated as OOB because it was thought that it was so off the line that nobody would hit their ball there. The Spieth scenario probably never occurred to anyone.


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## Tommo21 (Jul 24, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Bit of a Van Der Velde moment.
		
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Did VdV win......lol


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## richy (Jul 24, 2017)

How people can say crowds won't flock to see him is ludicrous and I think they're just digging their heels in rather than admit they were wrong about him. 

What he did down the closing stretch was phenomenal. Block it way right, loom completely out of it then come home like he did. Name another player today that is capable of such a thing.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 24, 2017)

richy said:



			Name another player today that is capable of such a thing.
		
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I can block it way right if I give it a full swing, not hard to do at all.

Ohhhhh, you mean everything that followed. Yeah, not me after all then


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## bobmac (Jul 24, 2017)

richy said:



			Name another player today that is capable of such a thing.
		
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Tiger Woo..........
Wait, today you say?
Nope


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 24, 2017)

Maninblack4612 said:



			I wonder if the practice ground wasn't designated as OOB because it was thought that it was so off the line that nobody would hit their ball there. The Spieth scenario probably never occurred to anyone.
		
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It's not oob for members Bill and even Spieth didn't hit it there, it only came in to play with his choice of taking the option straight back in line.


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## richy (Jul 24, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I can block it way right if I give it a full swing, not hard to do at all.

Ohhhhh, you mean everything that followed. Yeah, not me after all then 

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That just added to the excitement. Any other player would've just dropped their head and thought they'd blew it. It was totally gripping and I bet it has added to his long list of admirers.


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## Hosel Fade (Jul 24, 2017)

cliveb said:



			But I've been told that internal OOB isn't allowed in professional competitions. Have I been incorrectly informed?
		
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Why wouldn't it be? The only thing I found strange is that it was literally defined by the fairway length cut of the other hole.

They needed to do it as well as the line to get there is straight over a grandstand 50 or so yards in front


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## SaintHacker (Jul 24, 2017)

Hosel Fade said:



			Why wouldn't it be? The only thing I found strange is that it was literally defined by the fairway length cut of the other hole.

They needed to do it as well as the line to get there is straight over a grandstand 50 or so yards in front
		
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I think Clive is right. We have two holes with internal OOB (to protect players on adjacent holes) but they were both removed for the recant pro am we held.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 24, 2017)

richy said:



			That just added to the excitement. Any other player would've just dropped their head and thought they'd blew it. It was totally gripping and I bet it has added to his long list of admirers.
		
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It transformed the final round in terms of excitement. Up to that point it looked like Speith was giving it away. I like him anyway but that was phenomenal.

The human moment I liked was when he hit his tee shot on THAT hole and then put his hands on his head as he realised how bad the shot was. I wonder if he had hit that just off line whether Kuchar would be holding the trophy now. That shot, the drama, the hold up, it almost gave him the jolt and the time to kick himself into gear.


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## IanM (Jul 24, 2017)

Made for some fun alright...


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## Maninblack4612 (Jul 24, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			It's not oob for members Bill and even S*pieth didn't hit it there*, it only came in to play with his choice of taking the option straight back in line.
		
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That's my point, nobody anticipated anyone likely to take a shot from there. The practice ground my not being OOB to members but neither was the 9th fairway from the 10th tee but it was designated OOB for the Championship.


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## Big_G (Jul 24, 2017)

Surprised at all the vitriol for Speith, the guys a class act, same rules for everyone (even if I don't agree with them)

 I notice all that messing about was right in front of the Titleist tour truck, couldn't have planned it any better for one his major sponsors


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## OnTour (Jul 24, 2017)

Very clever chap tbh and a worthy champion. wish sometimes I could stay that calm and take your medicine over I'll get it out of that lie. 

as said that's an easy triple, quad on my card everytime. 

Well played Jordan


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## Orikoru (Jul 24, 2017)

OnTour said:



			Very clever chap tbh and a worthy champion. wish sometimes I could stay that calm and take your medicine over I'll get it out of that lie. 

as said that's an easy triple, quad on my card everytime. 

Well played Jordan
		
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To be fair, us amateurs don't often get the option of dropping it in between some trucks, so that we can then take a free drop in a nice flat practise area. Our options are more like, hack it out of the rough, or drop it in some other, different rough.


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## guest100718 (Jul 24, 2017)

Orikoru said:



			To be fair, us amateurs don't often get the option of dropping it in between some trucks, so that we can then take a free drop in a nice flat practise area. Our options are more like, hack it out of the rough, or drop it in some other, different rough.
		
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I thought he was just making sure he dropped far enough back so that npr would be on the range. not sure he was dropping between the trucks at all.


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## Orikoru (Jul 24, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			I thought he was just making sure he dropped far enough back so that npr would be on the range. not sure he was dropping between the trucks at all.
		
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May have misunderstood but it looked as if he went straight back in line with the flag, which took him to where the trucks were, so then he knew if he dropped it there, he would then get a free drop as relief from the trucks being in his way, and the nearest point of relief then was the practise area as you say. So he had to take the first drop behind the trucks for that to come into play. (Sure I saw him physically drop it by the truck and then pick it up again to reinforce that theory.)


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## patricks148 (Jul 24, 2017)

I think this just high lights the difference between weekly amateur round of golf and the pro game.  

how often have you had the advantage of;

a ball bouncing off a spectators stopping it going into more trouble.
so wide off line its behind a grandstand and you get a free drop back on the fairway
your ball is embedded in the rough and get a free drop
in a bunker you bury your feet right in so touches the lining and you get a free drop

to name just a few i could think of


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## richart (Jul 24, 2017)

I think the R &A thought the practice ground was well out of top pros reach. It was over a hundred yards right of the hole. Apart from Spieth after a drop, I can't believe anyone else went near it.


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## Imurg (Jul 24, 2017)

Then they weren't really trying!
He was only 90 yards from the fairway - real Men miss by 100!!&#128076;&#128538;


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## richart (Jul 24, 2017)

Imurg said:



			Then they weren't really trying!
He was only 90 yards from the fairway - real Men miss by 100!!&#128076;&#128538;
		
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Yes but it was only about 200 yards from the tee. Even I could hit that far down wind with firm ground and out of the screws.


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## Maninblack4612 (Jul 24, 2017)

richart said:



			I think the R &A thought the practice ground was well out of top pros reach. It was over a hundred yards right of the hole. Apart from Spieth after a drop, I can't believe anyone else went near it.
		
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My point exactly


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## Junior (Jul 24, 2017)

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I saw it on the GM live thing at lunch.......Speith has his 3w on the ground whilst hitting that shot from the practice ground and it looks to be indicating a line for him to hit on..........It probably isn't but take a look at the shot.  Surprised it's not been mentioned.


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## richart (Jul 24, 2017)

Junior said:



			Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I saw it on the GM live thing at lunch.......Speith has his 3w on the ground whilst hitting that shot from the practice ground and it looks to be indicating a line for him to hit on..........It probably isn't but take a look at the shot.  Surprised it's not been mentioned.
		
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I thought he lined up with the huge black Titleist truck.


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## Junior (Jul 24, 2017)

richart said:



			I thought he lined up with the huge black Titleist truck.

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Haha, yeah, that too


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2017)

The question I have heard asked is - what would you referres done if they weren't the last group ? Would they have allowed such  long time if there were people behind and as such did Spieth gain an advantage because of it ?


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## richart (Jul 24, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The question I have heard asked is - what would you referres done if they weren't the last group ? Would they have allowed such  long time if there were people behind and as such did Spieth gain an advantage because of it ?
		
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Wave the group behind through surely.


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## Imurg (Jul 24, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The question I have heard asked is - what would you referres done if they weren't the last group ? Would they have allowed such  long time if there were people behind and as such did Spieth gain an advantage because of it ?
		
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I think it would have been handled in the same way.
It was obviously a complex ruling and important to get it right and that takes time.
I've seen rulings on ordinary tour events take 10 or so minutes as it takes longer to get a referee to the site.
And if that means playing another group through then that's that, although I don't think they play through that much on tour


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2017)

Imurg said:



			I think it would have been handled in the same way.
It was obviously a complex ruling and important to get it right and that takes time.
I've seen rulings on ordinary tour events take 10 or so minutes as it takes longer to get a referee to the site.
And if that means playing another group through then that's that, although I don't think they play through that much on tour
		
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So it's possible that there could have been two groups waiting on the tee for the ruling to take place , would have created mayhem especially with them already dropping holes.


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## Swingalot (Jul 24, 2017)

I would have loved it if some of the pros back in the clubhouse had rushed to the range for a warm down, blasting balls to the back of the range while Spieth was walking around looking for a spot to drop.


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## HankMarvin (Jul 24, 2017)

Swingalot said:



			I would have loved it if some of the pros back in the clubhouse had rushed to the range for a warm down, blasting balls to the back of the range while Spieth was walking around looking for a spot to drop.
		
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what reason would they want to do that, most of them would already be on their way home. why would they want to practice after the final round ?


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## HankMarvin (Jul 24, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So it's possible that there could have been two groups waiting on the tee for the ruling to take place , would have created mayhem especially with them already dropping holes.
		
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here is just a thought, no it couldn't be possible coz Speith and Kutchar were in the last group so there was no chance anyone would be behind them plain and simple. here is a question if my Auntie had balls would she be my uncle ?


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## chrisd (Jul 24, 2017)

Pathetic Shark said:



			Isn't the reason you can't chip well Chris is because you haven't seen a fringe for about 30 years?   

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I've seen the fringe, just not been close to it!


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## garyinderry (Jul 24, 2017)

Junior said:



			Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I saw it on the GM live thing at lunch.......Speith has his 3w on the ground whilst hitting that shot from the practice ground and it looks to be indicating a line for him to hit on..........It probably isn't but take a look at the shot.  Surprised it's not been mentioned.
		
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Its about 5 yards behind him.  He also just tosses it to the ground.  It isn't pointing at the green either.  Seems to be well right of it.


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The question I have heard asked is - what would you referres done if they weren't the last group ? Would they have allowed such  long time if there were people behind and as such did Spieth gain an advantage because of it ?
		
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My opponent in the intercounty recently needed a ruling. Not as complicated as that one but by the time she decided she might be entitled to a drop, got the attention of a rules official, debated the options etc it was easily 10-15 mins before I was able to play my shot.

Just one of those things and we waved the match behind through. Not a problem.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 25, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			My opponent in the intercounty recently needed a ruling. Not as complicated as that one but by the time she decided she might be entitled to a drop, got the attention of a rules official, debated the options etc it was easily 10-15 mins before I was able to play my shot.

Just one of those things and we waved the match behind through. Not a problem.
		
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Yeah that's how the scenario would expect to work in every day golf etc but never seen a group be asked through in a pro event or a major - the closet was the McIlroy issue at the PGA a few years back


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## Slab (Jul 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yeah that's how the scenario would expect to work in every day golf etc but never seen a group be asked through in a pro event or a major - the closet was the McIlroy issue at the PGA a few years back
		
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i'll never find it again but i read a piece some time ago from a tour rules guy that said they wont wave groups through on a tour event


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