# Smart meters.....what's the point



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 8, 2017)

So they want everyone to have a smart meter. They're not so smart that they are not compatible supplier to supplier, and they just seem to be a marketing data and cost cutting device. I know when I am using elecy as that item will be on, so really....what is the point of them?


----------



## FairwayDodger (Feb 8, 2017)

You can get real time data on energy consumption. Which will help you use energy more efficiently. Should hopefully mean significantly less energy usage as a nation onc smart meters are rolled out uk wide.
Suppliers get accurate readings so they can bill you properly on actual reading rather than estimated ones.
After the initial set up costs the ongoing cost to serve of each customer will be significantly lower since it will be very rare for anyone to need to physically visit your meter.
Greater flexibility wrt tariffs available to customers and tariff changes can quickly be performed remotely.
Initial pilot schemes were supplier specific so not initially transferable when changing supplier but processes have been coming in to allow this assuming you switch between suppliers who are running smart trials.
Once the full programme rolls out you will be able to switch between suppliers and that process should work more seemlessly than at present with dumb meters due to the timely availability of final and initial readings.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 8, 2017)

Ok...I understand.
But..... The leafy co get an accurate meter reading from me every 3 months when they send me a bill, which then send back with accurate readings.
The current smart meters aren't compatible supplier to supplier, and the next gen which would be aren't even out yet.
I know when IM using leccy as Inswitched something on.
Do Really trust an company only interested in profits to remotely switch my tariffs to suit them?
It costs a large amount to roll this all out, and we are paying for it with littlemofnthe benefit to us.

You might guess Imdont believe the gumpf about them.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 8, 2017)

When they trialed water meters on the IOW use of water fell drastically.
People became very aware of how much was wasted.


----------



## Bazzatron (Feb 8, 2017)

I work for one of the big 6 energy suppliers, this is as much of a pain in the backside for us as it is for customers. 
No chance of everyone getting one by 2020.


----------



## Fish (Feb 8, 2017)

I love my OVO supplier, I get an email 7 days before asking me to put my readings into their website, there's loads of graphs & stats on the site offering me info to help save on energy and what my averages currently are and projections for the future are, we've reduced our gas & electric massively since being with them for over 5 years now. 

Keep it simple &#128077;


----------



## rulefan (Feb 8, 2017)

Bazzatron said:



			I work for one of the big 6 energy suppliers, this is as much of a pain in the backside for us as it is for customers. 
No chance of everyone getting one by 2020.
		
Click to expand...

Well there will be at least one who won't have one after 2020 unless the government introduces legislation.


----------



## FairwayDodger (Feb 8, 2017)

There's a massive programme rolling out smart meters and developing the central systems. The technology is there but it will take time to install them in every home in the country.

Not everyone gets accurate bills based on actually readings. It is especially difficult when tariffs change since they are usually unable to get an actual reading on the tariff change date.

You might know when you are using an appliance but it is very difficult to tell how much energy that device is using and consequently how much it is costing you. A smart meter linked to an in home device will help overcome that.

They can't just change tariffs without informing you but if you don't trust them there's not much that can be said to change your mind.

I almost hesitate to point it out to you but, if there is a concern about smart metering, it is around privacy. Your energy supplier will be able to tell a lot about you from your meter readings. For example, whether you are home or not and the times when your home is usually empty. Sensitivity and security around this data features highly in the programme.


----------



## FairwayDodger (Feb 8, 2017)

rulefan said:



			Well there will be at least one who won't have one after 2020 unless the government introduces legislation.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think you'll have a choice, certainly not in the long term.


----------



## MegaSteve (Feb 8, 2017)

Doon frae Troon said:



			When they trialed water meters on the IOW use of water fell drastically.
People became very aware of how much was wasted.
		
Click to expand...

And, after a settling in period usage went back to 'normal' levels...


----------



## DRW (Feb 8, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			I almost hesitate to point it out to you but, if there is a concern about smart metering, it is around privacy. Your energy supplier will be able to tell a lot about you from your meter readings. For example, whether you are home or not and the times when your home is usually empty. Sensitivity and security around this data features highly in the programme.
		
Click to expand...

We got a smart meter last year, and this is one matter I did not like about the meters. Its just another extension of the big brother culture and relying on big business/government to keep data safe and not use it for some purpose or another.

I can safely say what a waste of money for someone like me, as it has not changed my living pattern at all and using more/less electricity. We turn stuff off, only turn on stuff when needed etc.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 8, 2017)

After you have had a smart meter you will never fill a kettle unecessarily again. Neither will you turn it on 10 minutes before you really need it so it is ready for when you do need it. It has definitely changed our usage. 

The idea of sending readings automatically is also a godesend for many people. My inlaws have been caught twice with huge bills after their energy provider dropped their DD, didn't take readings and then when they did hit them with massive bills. My wife has now taken over their account and enters monthly readings for them to avoid this. Not everyone has someone to do this for them.


----------



## FairwayDodger (Feb 8, 2017)

Even if you are already energy efficient, more accurate bills will help you Darren.

Also big potential benefits for the industry in capacity planning, load balancing etc. Maybe no obvious benefit for the consumer but should all help keep prices down in the long term.


----------



## Beezerk (Feb 8, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			After you have had a smart meter you will never fill a kettle unecessarily again. Neither will you turn it on 10 minutes before you really need it so it is ready for when you do need it.
		
Click to expand...

Missus does both of those,  I tell her most weeks but there she is the week after, doing the same thing &#128514;
Boils water with the lid off as well etc, does my nuts in as I'm trying to get our carbon footprint down.
I'm sure she thinks I'm just winding her up and electricity is grown on trees.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 8, 2017)

I find it interesting that nPower blame their 10% in the dual fuel charge in part to the cost of rolling out Smart Meters.  And at the same time I note that the European Investment has provided very low rate loans for this

http://www.eib.org/infocentre/press...ur-315-billion-investment-plan-for-europe.htm

Not sure then why nPower can part justify their increase on Smart Meter grounds


----------



## drdel (Feb 8, 2017)

I tend to check out the cheapest suppliers annually and change if its prudent. 

Slightly concerned that if the meters aren't compatible across suppliers the freedom to switch will be compromised and competition will suffer.


----------



## pendodave (Feb 8, 2017)

Beezerk said:



			Missus does both of those,  I tell her most weeks but there she is the week after, doing the same thing &#128514;
Boils water with the lid off as well etc, does my nuts in as I'm trying to get our carbon footprint down.
I'm sure she thinks I'm just winding her up and electricity is grown on trees.
		
Click to expand...

This.

And the kids.

There is no way that a smart meter will change their behaviour. They just don't get it.

On the privacy issue. This is a huge concern and I'm surprised that there isn't more resistance to it. If there are two things we know about utility companies it is that they are (a) incompetent and (b) willing to do anything to make a quick buck. They will either lose or flog this data as soon as they have it.


----------



## DCB (Feb 8, 2017)

Once we lose most of our good links courses to rising sea levels, maybe people will wonder if a smart meter wasn't such a bad thing after all


----------



## Crazyface (Feb 8, 2017)

Just why it is assumed that Smart Meters will change peoples behaviour baffles me.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 8, 2017)

Crazyface said:



			Just why it is assumed that Smart Meters will change peoples behaviour baffles me.
		
Click to expand...

I installed a little power monitor - and it certainly did change my behaviour.  So for instance I might put on an electric convection heater in the consevatory and I could see how much it was costing me to have it on - so I would switch it off as soon as I felt I no longer needed it on.  I currently don't have the check running - and I tend to leave that convection heater on for longer than I probably need - as I can't see how much it is costing me.


----------



## FairwayDodger (Feb 8, 2017)

drdel said:



			I tend to check out the cheapest suppliers annually and change if its prudent. 

Slightly concerned that if the meters aren't compatible across suppliers the freedom to switch will be compromised and competition will suffer.
		
Click to expand...

That won't be the case.

It's only a slight issue with some of the meters from the early trials. People on those meters can still switch but it initially meant leaving the smart trial and the meter being switched to operate in dumb mode. Increasingly, these are becoming more interoperable as most suppliers are gearing up and some processes have been derived to allow switching while continuing to be "smart".

The full rollout won't have any such problems as the meters, processes and central systems are all being designed with this in mind.


----------



## drdel (Feb 8, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			That won't be the case.

It's only a slight issue with some of the meters from the early trials. People on those meters can still switch but it initially meant leaving the smart trial and the meter being switched to operate in dumb mode. Increasingly, these are becoming more interoperable as most suppliers are gearing up and some processes have been derived to allow switching while continuing to be "smart".

The full rollout won't have any such problems as the meters, processes and central systems are all being designed with this in mind.
		
Click to expand...

Okay - cheers


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 8, 2017)

Crazyface said:



			Just why it is assumed that Smart Meters will change peoples behaviour baffles me.
		
Click to expand...


If you can see that turning on a kettle that is full of water when you only need one cup costs Â£1.50, made up figure, when if you put enough in to fill 1-2 cups costs Â£0.20, again made up figure, then that is an incentive to change your behaviour

It shows you the cost of the electricity you are using and that is enough for most people.


----------



## Rooter (Feb 8, 2017)

Is it geeky that i already meter all my IT equipment under the stairs? by power port i can track use, harmonics, peak load and the total UPS figure? Yeh, i'll get my Star Trek dvd and let myself out...


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 8, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If you can see that turning on a kettle that is full of water when you only need one cup costs Â£1.50, made up figure, when if you put enough in to fill 1-2 cups costs Â£0.20, again made up figure, then that is an incentive to change your behaviour

It shows you the cost of the electricity you are using and that is enough for most people.
		
Click to expand...

It did work for me - I was gob-smacked the cost of putting the kettle on - and the cost of a convection heater.  And once I had a few weeks data in it I could see what I should be 'spending' day by day - and so if on any day I was ahead of what I felt I needed to spend as shown by historical data - then I'd cut back.

I could also show the kids the effect of switching off all the upstairs lights.

Have to say though - Gaz and Leccy are starting to irritate with their joviality as we see suppliers starting to whack up their charges


----------



## Rooter (Feb 8, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I could also show the kids the effect of switching off all the upstairs lights.
		
Click to expand...

Check the change of LED from halogen! That will show a huge impact! Especially on bulbs like GU10 spots...


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 8, 2017)

Rooter said:



			Check the change of LED from halogen! That will show a huge impact! Especially on bulbs like GU10 spots...
		
Click to expand...

Must go check my spots - are GU10 spots BAD! ?  Or is it just cos GU10 is half mile from me


----------



## Beezerk (Feb 8, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If you can see that turning on a kettle that is full of water when you only need one cup costs Â£1.50, made up figure, when if you put enough in to fill 1-2 cups costs Â£0.20, again made up figure, then that is an incentive to change your behaviour

It shows you the cost of the electricity you are using and that is enough for most people.
		
Click to expand...

But your meter is still tucked away in a cupboard, so how do you see real time how much energy you are using?


----------



## Rooter (Feb 8, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Must go check my spots - are GU10 spots BAD! ?  Or is it just cos GU10 is half mile from me 

Click to expand...

Touch a GU10 thats been on for 10 seconds. It will take off your skin, heat = lots of power used.

Here is a table that's hard to format here, but taken from http://www.thegreenage.co.uk/article/cost-comparison-led-spotlight-versus-halogen-spotlight/ 

Based on 1000 hours use. In short, LED last longer, cost less to run, but cost more up front. Long term much better though..


Light bulb Type	5W LED Spot	50 Watt Halogen
Light bulb projected Lifespan (Hrs)	24,000	2,000
Cost per bulb	Â£5.00	Â£1.50
kWh of electricity used over 24,000 hours	120	1,200
Cost of electricity (@ Â£0.15 / kWh)	Â£18.00	Â£180.00
Bulbs needed to last 24,000 hours	1	12
Bulb expense	Â£5.00	Â£18.00
Total cost for buying and running the bulb	Â£23.00	Â£198.00


EDIT: And thats ONE bulb! I have 12 GU10's in my kitchen alone....


----------



## MegaSteve (Feb 8, 2017)

DCB said:



			Once we lose most of our good links courses to rising sea levels, maybe people will wonder if a smart meter wasn't such a bad thing after all 

Click to expand...


If we truly wish to save our links courses then we'll have to take greater steps beyond fitting smart meters...

Cutting all air travel by a third would be a good place to start...


----------



## DCB (Feb 8, 2017)

Beezerk said:



			But your meter is still tucked away in a cupboard, so how do you see real time how much energy you are using?
		
Click to expand...

You get a small portable wireless device that's paired with your meter and shows you what the meter reads and a lot more.


----------



## Beezerk (Feb 8, 2017)

DCB said:



			You get a small portable wireless device that's paired with your meter and shows you what the meter reads and a lot more.
		
Click to expand...

Is it blue tooth or piggyback your wifi signal? Hopefully not the latter.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 8, 2017)

It must be bluetooth surely as lots of people do not have wifi still, many elderly people for example.


----------



## Beezerk (Feb 8, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It must be bluetooth surely as lots of people do not have wifi still, many elderly people for example.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah and my "fibre" broadband connection is sheeeiiite so I won't allow them access anyway, every Kb/s is precious to me


----------



## DCB (Feb 8, 2017)

Beezerk said:



			Yeah and my "fibre" broadband connection is sheeeiiite so I won't allow them access anyway, every Kb/s is precious to me 

Click to expand...

The smart meter uses a GSM connection to send it's data to the supplier, no need for any connection to the users phone or broadband etc. Don't know what the screen uses ,but, it works well in a certain range so it may be bluetooth, but nothing visible on another device if you search for devices.


----------



## DCB (Feb 8, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			If we truly wish to save our links courses then we'll have to take greater steps beyond fitting smart meters...

Cutting all air travel by a third would be a good place to start...
		
Click to expand...

Agreed, but every little helps


----------



## londonlewis (Feb 8, 2017)

In my mind smart meters are a provision to future proof against challenges with energy supply and rapid increases in cost we will all suffer from in the future. 
1st generation won't be great but the technology will rapidly improve. It will be essential for future generations to manage their utility bill$$$!


----------



## FairwayDodger (Feb 8, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It must be bluetooth surely as lots of people do not have wifi still, many elderly people for example.
		
Click to expand...

There are various components, some integrated into the meter. Basically a comms hub handles the communication to the data communication company (central meter reading system) over a gsm wan and creates a local wifi network (Han) to which all your devices will be paired - leccy meter, gas meter, in home display etc. 

The meter operator will pair all the devices during installation so ideally this is all seem less to customers.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 8, 2017)

FD - I actually have no idea how it connects so thank you for the explanation. Given the two assumptions by Beezerk I went for the process of elimination method and decided it could not be Wifi so it must be the other. Obviously there were other methods, as you have described :thup:


----------



## FairwayDodger (Feb 8, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			FD - I actually have no idea how it connects so thank you for the explanation. Given the two assumptions by Beezerk I went for the process of elimination method and decided it could not be Wifi so it must be the other. Obviously there were other methods, as you have described :thup:
		
Click to expand...

I used to work on the smart metering implementation programme. (And several years on old school metering systems before that). Have been out of the loop for about a year though.


----------



## Maninblack4612 (Feb 8, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			The current smart meters aren't compatible supplier to supplier.
		
Click to expand...

Just cancelled the arrangement to install mine after I learned this.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 8, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			I used to work on the smart metering implementation programme. (And several years on old school metering systems before that). Have been out of the loop for about a year though.
		
Click to expand...

So can you help on the nPower claim that one reason for their 10% increase in dual fuel charges is the cost of implementing Smart Meters - when from the EIB website

http://www.eib.org/infocentre/press...ur-315-billion-investment-plan-for-europe.htm

_More than 7 million smart meters will be installed in homes across Great Britain under a new GBP 1 billion mass roll-out programme backed by the European Investment Bank alongside six commercial banks (Barclays, CrÃ©dit Agricole CIB, HSBC, Santander, Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation and The Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ Ltd) and Infracapital. The European Investment Bank (EIB) will provide GBP 360 million to this initiative that will significantly increase the roll-out of smart meters to reduce energy use and help households save money.

The programme is a key part of the scaling up the use of smart meters in Britain, and one of the largest smart meter schemes in Europe to date. The roll-out will be managed by Calvin Capital, a leading funder, owner and manager of gas and electricity meters.  Individual meters will then be used by customers of energy suppliers._

Or is it that the power companies still have to find Â£640m.  It's not clear whether the EIB plus other banks are providing all of the Â£1Bn


----------



## FairwayDodger (Feb 8, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			So can you help on the nPower claim that one reason for their 10% increase in dual fuel charges is the cost of implementing Smart Meters - when from the EIB website

http://www.eib.org/infocentre/press...ur-315-billion-investment-plan-for-europe.htm

_More than 7 million smart meters will be installed in homes across Great Britain under a new GBP 1 billion mass roll-out programme backed by the European Investment Bank alongside six commercial banks (Barclays, CrÃ©dit Agricole CIB, HSBC, Santander, Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation and The Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ Ltd) and Infracapital. The European Investment Bank (EIB) will provide GBP 360 million to this initiative that will significantly increase the roll-out of smart meters to reduce energy use and help households save money.

The programme is a key part of the scaling up the use of smart meters in Britain, and one of the largest smart meter schemes in Europe to date. The roll-out will be managed by Calvin Capital, a leading funder, owner and manager of gas and electricity meters.  Individual meters will then be used by customers of energy suppliers._

Or is it that the power companies still have to find Â£640m.  It's not clear whether the EIB plus other banks are providing all of the Â£1Bn
		
Click to expand...

Well I'm a techy and certainly wasn't involved at that level but it's fair to say it's costing a shed load so doesn't surprise me that some of them might hike prices. I don't think banks "provide money", it'll need repaid! However, I think there's already a surcharge applied to all our bills to go towards the cost so maybe a bit surprising they're so openly claiming more. Mind you, I've long been convinced that they're all "at it" when it comes to pricing generally but that's more down to my natural cynicism than any inside information.


----------



## FairwayDodger (Feb 8, 2017)

Maninblack4612 said:



			Just cancelled the arrangement to install mine after I learned this.
		
Click to expand...

Did your supplier tell you it wasn't compatible or did you base it on this thread?

As I said, the initial trial meters couldn't be switched without being dumbed down but processes were put in place that in most cases they can. You'll find stories on the internet about this but they're years old. It depends on which meter and which supplier, as not all are geared up. Once the main roll out starts the meters will be fully transferable.

This is based on where they were a year ago, I'd expect the situation is better now.


----------



## Maninblack4612 (Feb 8, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			Did your supplier tell you it wasn't compatible or did you base it on this thread?

As I said, the initial trial meters couldn't be switched without being dumbed down but processes were put in place that in most cases they can. You'll find stories on the internet about this but they're years old. It depends on which meter and which supplier, as not all are geared up. Once the main roll out starts the meters will be fully transferable.

This is based on where they were a year ago, I'd expect the situation is better now.
		
Click to expand...

No,  they didn't,  but,  to be honest I can't see the value of them &  am likely to leave them (NPower) shortly anyway. Couldn't be bothered with the disruption &  mess the average British workman brings.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 8, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			Did your supplier tell you it wasn't compatible or did you base it on this thread?

As I said, the initial trial meters couldn't be switched without being dumbed down but processes were put in place that in most cases they can. You'll find stories on the internet about this but they're years old. It depends on which meter and which supplier, as not all are geared up. Once the main roll out starts the meters will be fully transferable.

This is based on where they were a year ago, I'd expect the situation is better now.
		
Click to expand...


5 Live this morning, around 5:45 AM...they were talking specifically about smart meters and what a waste of money they are currently, the expert they had on said there wasnt compatible meters out so they were just a stumbling block to switching. The next gen of meter would be compatible, but they weren't even be made yet.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 8, 2017)

I think I have decided to avoid them all together. Common sense tells me when I'm using leccy, and when it's cheapest to use it.
I might have more faith in them and the leccy companies if they weren't blaming these things for some of the massive price rises, they take the proverbial.


----------



## SteveJay (Feb 8, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			Also big potential benefits for the industry in capacity planning, load balancing etc. Maybe no obvious benefit for the consumer but should all help keep prices down in the long term.
		
Click to expand...

Really.......I don't follow that logic.......lower consumer usage = lower profits.....will investment and maintenance fall in line, I doubt it. They are plcs with shareholders after all!


----------



## FairwayDodger (Feb 8, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			5 Live this morning, around 5:45 AM...they were talking specifically about smart meters and what a waste of money they are currently, the expert they had on said there wasnt compatible meters out so they were just a stumbling block to switching. The next gen of meter would be compatible, but they weren't even be made yet.
		
Click to expand...

Can't really comment without hearing the detail of the discussion. Granted it's not as smooth as it will be under the full rollout but it's simply not true to say you can't switch them.


----------



## FairwayDodger (Feb 8, 2017)

SteveJay said:



			Really.......I don't follow that logic.......lower consumer usage = lower profits.....will investment and maintenance fall in line, I doubt it. They are plcs with shareholders after all!
		
Click to expand...

Remember this programme is government mandated and the industry is heavily regulated.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 8, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			Can't really comment without hearing the detail of the discussion. Granted it's not as smooth as it will be under the full rollout but it's simply not true to say you can't switch them.
		
Click to expand...


The industry/techy expert said as clear as day that they were not supplier to supplier compatible, and that was a major blocker to those wishing to switch.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 8, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			Remember this programme is government mandated and the industry is heavily regulated.
		
Click to expand...


It's just a shame the blatant profiteering isn't though isn't it


----------



## FairwayDodger (Feb 8, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			The industry/techy expert said as clear as day that they were not supplier to supplier compatible, and that was a major blocker to those wishing to switch.
		
Click to expand...

Well I worked on a system and we were quite happily handling change of supplier processes with them. This issue is that it's not as easy as it should be and not universally possible between all suppliers with the current meters. If your expert said it just can't be done, he was wrong. 

As I said, I've been out of it for a while but I'm surprised by the comments you're reporting and it can only mean things haven't been progressing as they should have been.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 8, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			Well I worked on a system and we were quite happily handling change of supplier processes with them. This issue is that it's not as easy as it should be and not universally possible between all suppliers with the current meters. If your expert said it just can't be done, he was wrong. 

As I said, I've been out of it for a while but I'm surprised by the comments you're reporting and it can only mean things haven't been progressing as they should have been.
		
Click to expand...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08cq5nz
The article starts after around 19:12 mins in.


----------



## FairwayDodger (Feb 8, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08cq5nz
The article starts after around 19:12 mins in.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. Interesting stuff. He doesn't say you can't switch supplier with the current meters, just that they're not fully compatible which squares with what I've been saying. I am a bit surprised if there's still no SMETS 2 meters available since I'm pretty sure we were building systems using them but maybe they were still prototypes. It's been a while and I don't have the best memory! 

What was really interesting was the point about advances in mobile technology potentially making the solution obsolete before it even goes live! Would like to hear some of my old colleagues take on that! 

Sounds like I might be well off out of it......


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 8, 2017)

We had a smart meter installed in our new build. Had issues with gas supply and so Eon came along and split them into two separate meters now that stand alone.


----------



## Golfmmad (Feb 8, 2017)

Well I had smart meters fitted only last Thursday and can only say its the way forward!

Not only was I amazed at how much the electric kettle uses but how much lights are using. In the kitchen we have 8 halogen down lights, 5 under counter flourescents and 2 halogens in display cabinets. they're not on all the time of course but just the display lights are used now much more than they ever used to be.

So the plan is to change all the halogens over to led's, even though it will be costly initially.

Another reason why I favoured the change meant that we could get rid of the economy 7 meter that was just not cost efficient. And as for the switch over to other suppliers, I'm not too worried as I switched just before Christmas and I'm sure any issues will be ironed out soon anyway.

Oh, and I had a very tidy "British" workman, who was very helpful with good advice and took what little mess there was away with him.

All in all very happy :thup: whilst improving my bank balance!


----------



## SteveJay (Feb 8, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			It's just a shame the blatant profiteering isn't though isn't it
		
Click to expand...

Indeed, you beat me to it! When have energy firms ever been interested in giving consumers a good deal!!!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 8, 2017)

Golfmmad said:



			Well I had smart meters fitted only last Thursday and can only say its the way forward!

Not only was I amazed at how much the electric kettle uses but how much lights are using. In the kitchen we have 8 halogen down lights, 5 under counter flourescents and 2 halogens in display cabinets. they're not on all the time of course but just the display lights are used now much more than they ever used to be.

So the plan is to change all the halogens over to led's, even though it will be costly initially.
!
		
Click to expand...

Can you just swap the bulbs or do you need to change the fittings and everything?


----------



## Golfmmad (Feb 8, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can you just swap the bulbs or do you need to change the fittings and everything?
		
Click to expand...

Yes you can just swap the bulbs - 5w led's. I'm not sure about the flourescents though, will have to look into that.

:thup:


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 10, 2017)

And as the radio ads continue to tell us we can get a Smart Meter installed 'at no extra cost' - the companies are in the process of putting their charges up with reason partly being the cost of rolling out Smart Meters - hold on a sec!


----------



## FairwayDodger (Feb 10, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And as the radio ads continue to tell us we can get a Smart Meter installed 'at no extra cost' - the companies are in the process of putting their charges up with reason partly being the cost of rolling out Smart Meters - hold on a sec!
		
Click to expand...

Aye, but you're paying that whether you get a smart meter or not.....


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 10, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I think I have decided to avoid them all together. Common sense tells me when I'm using leccy, and when it's cheapest to use it.
I might have more faith in them and the leccy companies if they weren't blaming these things for some of the massive price rises, they take the proverbial.
		
Click to expand...

Then you might end up with the price hike without the meter.


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 10, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And as the radio ads continue to tell us we can get a Smart Meter installed 'at no extra cost' - the companies are in the process of putting their charges up with reason partly being the cost of rolling out Smart Meters - hold on a sec!
		
Click to expand...


Mind was was installed over a year ago and never had an increase because of it to the best of my knowledge. The smart meter used in conjunction with Hive has reduced my costs by over 10%


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 10, 2017)

Old Skier said:



			Then you might end up with the price hike without the meter.
		
Click to expand...

And will that really be a problem? Sometimes retaining control is a good thing......(now where has that been heard before )


----------



## Hobbit (Feb 11, 2017)

Crazyface said:



			Just why it is assumed that Smart Meters will change peoples behaviour baffles me.
		
Click to expand...

It might change some people's behaviour but I doubt it will be many people.

Will I measure xx mills into a kettle? No. Will I switch things off that are sitting in standby? No. Will I switch bulbs/lights? Some, but not many.

Should I put another sweater on or turn the heating up?

Gas guzzlers/high performance cars/switching to hybrid cars...

New technology that enhances our comfort, yes. Adopting habits like a second sweater... I must find another tree to hug.


----------



## Golfmmad (Feb 11, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			It might change some people's behaviour but I doubt it will be many people.

Will I measure xx mills into a kettle? No. Will I switch things off that are sitting in standby? No. Will I switch bulbs/lights? Some, but not many.

Should I put another sweater on or turn the heating up?

Gas guzzlers/high performance cars/switching to hybrid cars...

New technology that enhances our comfort, yes. Adopting habits like a second sweater... I must find another tree to hug.
		
Click to expand...

Well I must be one of the few then.

Will I measure water into a kettle? No but I wont fill it.

I will switch things off standby - if the're not used very much.

Will I switch bulbs-lights off? Yes, why would I not save money?

Putting another sweater on if feeling chilly, rather than turning heating up, does not make one a tree hugger.

:ears:


----------



## Crazyface (Sep 8, 2017)

We're being pestered by our provider to have one of these fitted as they are in the area next week. There's only two of you in the house. We know what we use and are careful. Apparently you do not have to have one, so we aren't going to bother. i can't wait for these things to start going wrong and sending incorrect figures to be processed. I'll stick with my meters I think.


----------



## Old Skier (Sep 8, 2017)

Crazyface said:



			We're being pestered by our provider to have one of these fitted as they are in the area next week. There's only two of you in the house. We know what we use and are careful. Apparently you do not have to have one, so we aren't going to bother. i can't wait for these things to start going wrong and sending incorrect figures to be processed. I'll stick with my meters I think.
		
Click to expand...

Government legislation has given suppliers a time limited to fit them in all users homes. Eventually you'll have no option.


----------



## jim8flog (Sep 8, 2017)

I had one fitted by Scottish Power on each service this year and the one on the gas meter would not send the figures directly to them. It has given a lot of hassle because submitting the reading via the web from the new meter is not accepted because the figure is lower than the last reading I supplied.

I switched supplier this year and  it has caused on going problems because the figure supplied by Scottish Power does not match the one I gave the new company.

The new Company does not have a smart meter system so I have had to go back to  supplying readings.

The only advantage to me for having one in the first place is that I did not have to go outside in the cold to get the readings and post them them on the website but now that has only become I do have to go outside to get the readings.

 So now the meter is only switched on when I need a meter reading. 

Having one never changed my use of power.


----------



## londonlewis (Sep 8, 2017)

Old Skier said:



			Government legislation has given suppliers a time limited to fit them in all users homes. Eventually you'll have no option.
		
Click to expand...

That's what I thought although I was recently speaking to someone who works in this industry and he has said the legislation has changed. Currently it is a cost to the consumer, i.e. you pay for a smart meter. You can't be forced to pay and the gas/electricity providers have said the government can't force them to install them for free.


----------



## Old Skier (Sep 8, 2017)

londonlewis said:



			That's what I thought although I was recently speaking to someone who works in this industry and he has said the legislation has changed. Currently it is a cost to the consumer, i.e. you pay for a smart meter. You can't be forced to pay and the gas/electricity providers have said the government can't force them to install them for free.
		
Click to expand...

I got mine a good couple of years and they were fitted FOX so I didn't realise that you had to pay these days.


----------



## GB72 (Sep 8, 2017)

Smart Meters are a bit like a Fitbit. A fitbit tells you how far you walk but only makes a difference if you use that information and act on it to walk more to hit targets. Smart Meters are the same, tell you your energy use and they are useless unless you take that information and use it to reduce your overall energy useage. If, like our one, it just sits on the side and is ignored then it really has no purpose.


----------



## FairwayDodger (Sep 8, 2017)

GB72 said:



			Smart Meters are a bit like a Fitbit. A fitbit tells you how far you walk but only makes a difference if you use that information and act on it to walk more to hit targets. Smart Meters are the same, tell you your energy use and they are useless unless you take that information and use it to reduce your overall energy useage. If, like our one, it just sits on the side and is ignored then it really has no purpose.
		
Click to expand...

Not quite true as their purpose is much more than encouraging consumers to lower consumption. However, in this particular aspect you are correct.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Sep 8, 2017)

Well I had my leccy supplier telling me it was time to change my meter, so I make the booking. Now I understand with the old mechanical meters why you needed to on a certain time frame, but why with my current digital meter?
Anyway guy turns up, with smart meter. I ask why it has to be changed when its digital...."displays can go blank", valid point but if it was a regular happening they would be changed from production I say. Anyway, I explain I dont want smart meter...no problem he says and marks it as meter refused.
As he said, until the new second generation smart meters are produced and fitted, there is no point in the current ones.


----------



## Hacker Khan (Sep 8, 2017)

Smart houses are here to stay. And although people can resist as much as they want to (and I am sure some people will) , it will become the norm pretty soon for most people. So just embrace it and get on with it.


----------



## Hacker Khan (Sep 8, 2017)

pendodave said:



			This.

And the kids.

There is no way that a smart meter will change their behaviour. They just don't get it.

On the privacy issue. This is a huge concern and I'm surprised that there isn't more resistance to it. If there are two things we know about utility companies it is that they are (a) incompetent and (b) willing to do anything to make a quick buck. They will either lose or flog this data as soon as they have it.
		
Click to expand...

There are vast amounts of data being collected by many companies about you, your habits and lifestyle. 

Worrying about NPower doing it now is a bit late.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Sep 8, 2017)

Hacker Khan said:



			Smart houses are here to stay. And although people can resist as much as they want to (and I am sure some people will) , it will become the norm pretty soon for most people. So just embrace it and get on with it.
		
Click to expand...

I always try to be one or two generations behind on modern technology coming out, purely until the latest updates have been proven to work and on the cost. The latest TV might look incredible but wait a couple of years for it to be shown to work consistently and the price to drop and then I'll be in. The same with Smart meters. I'll let others trial them and iron out the bugs and then when that's all sorted I'll get one.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Sep 8, 2017)

Hacker Khan said:



			Smart houses are here to stay. And although people can resist as much as they want to (and I am sure some people will) , it will become the norm pretty soon for most people. So just embrace it and get on with it.
		
Click to expand...

Why? if it aint broke why mess with it.


----------



## Old Skier (Sep 8, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Why? if it aint broke why mess with it.
		
Click to expand...

It is to save energy, that includes the energy used by meter readers coming around to your shed.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Sep 8, 2017)

Old Skier said:



			It is to save energy, that includes the energy used by meter readers coming around to your shed.
		
Click to expand...

My current digital meter meter must use less energy than the newer smart meters, as well as being more enviromentally better as there are no batteries needed, as it does less.


----------



## Hacker Khan (Sep 8, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Why? if it aint broke why mess with it.
		
Click to expand...

It's technological progress. Smart technology will be commonplace pretty soon.


----------



## rulefan (Sep 8, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			Did your supplier tell you it wasn't compatible or did you base it on this thread?

As I said, the initial trial meters couldn't be switched without being dumbed down but processes were put in place that in most cases they can. You'll find stories on the internet about this but they're years old. It depends on which meter and which supplier, as not all are geared up. Once the main roll out starts the meters will be fully transferable.

This is based on where they were a year ago, I'd expect the situation is better now.
		
Click to expand...

My supplier (First Utility) offered me a smartmeter a week ago. The manufacturer (Siemens) told me that particular model was not compatible with any major supplier and only a few smaller ones.

I declined the offer.


----------



## ScienceBoy (Sep 9, 2017)

Smart meters are brilliant.

The bad thing was putting a little display device to go along with it.

Just use a phone app and Bluetooth. Could have saved millions.

Loved the data. Hated the display.

Glad I don't have a display now but still have a remotely read meter.


----------



## wrighty1874 (Sep 9, 2017)

I was meant to get one fitted in our house back in July between 8-12. Waited in till 12.05 and no sign of them or a phone call to say they will be late. I received a letter a week later apologising for their unprofessional dealings with me. Haven't heard anything since.


----------



## Hobbit (Sep 9, 2017)

Hacker Khan said:



			Smart houses are here to stay. And although people can resist as much as they want to (and I am sure some people will) , it will become the norm pretty soon for most people. So just embrace it and get on with it.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree but not resisting nor embracing. If I had one fitted I'm pretty much sure I'd barely look at it. Just what info would it give me? It'll tell me that the TV and Sky box are on. Yes they're supposed to be. It'll tell me the fridge is on. Yes its supposed to be. It'll tell me there's a table lamp on in the lounge. Yes its supposed to be on. And when I'm cold it will tell me I've put the heating on.

It will tell me all the things I already know and have known for years. Is it going to change my habits? No of course it won't. I want to watch the TV, and I want the fridge to keep the food chilled, and I'll want the heating on when I'm cold.

So what does it achieve? It sees lots of people in offices burning energy/electricity/gas administering a programme that sees lots of men in factories making Smart meters, who send them out to lots of people that run around in vans(burning fossil fuels) to fit something the vast majority of people will ignore.


----------



## Hacker Khan (Sep 9, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Totally agree but not resisting nor embracing. If I had one fitted I'm pretty much sure I'd barely look at it. Just what info would it give me? It'll tell me that the TV and Sky box are on. Yes they're supposed to be. It'll tell me the fridge is on. Yes its supposed to be. It'll tell me there's a table lamp on in the lounge. Yes its supposed to be on. And when I'm cold it will tell me I've put the heating on.

*It will tell me all the things I already know and have known for years*. *Is it going to change my habits? No of course it won't.* I want to watch the TV, and I want the fridge to keep the food chilled, and I'll want the heating on when I'm cold.

So what does it achieve? It sees lots of people in offices burning energy/electricity/gas administering a programme that sees lots of men in factories making Smart meters, who send them out to lots of people that run around in vans(burning fossil fuels) to fit something the vast majority of people will ignore.
		
Click to expand...

Yes it will change some peoples habits once you see how much each of your appliances use.  They don't just tell you if something is on or off, they tell you how much electricity each appliance is using.  We had one fitted 3 months ago and it is an eye opener how much electricity certain things use and how relatively little other things do. So my behaviour in terms of use of appliances has changed slightly.  Not a huge amount on my own, but multiplied by several million and it will make a difference. Also I like to think I am doing a very small bit for the environment, kind of trying to leave the planet is a slightly inhabitable state for future generations, in a hippy dippy woolly liberal yurt eating tree hugging way.

And I suspect that most electronics nowadays are not made by 'men in factories' but by mostly automated production lines.


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 9, 2017)

Smart meters. Pfaff. I know that my kitchen lights at 500 w is where the money goes in my house. Its not hard to work out. There is no mystery here. I dont need a meter to inform me. Any one who cant work out where the money goes is an eejit


----------



## Hobbit (Sep 9, 2017)

But what do people switch on that they don't need or want on? I'm all for being disciplined and managing what I want on, I just don't need a meter to tell me something is on.

As for adopting/ substituting technologies to improve the environment I spent a couple of hours today researching hybrid cars, energy and fossil fuel consumption with a view to getting one. For example for every 2 gallons of fuel used in a Hyundai Ioniq you'll use 3 in an Astra. Now that is a genuine saving and benefit. 

Automated production lines; the Labour feeds the production lines and ships the end product. The speed and volume of production actually, in many cases, uses more energy than the man with a screwdriver. Automated doesn't necessarily equal energy savings.


----------



## FairwayDodger (Sep 9, 2017)

The classic example is filling a kettle when you only need one cup. Plenty of people leave TVs etc on when not actually watching them, lights in other rooms etc.

However, this is all just one of many benefits of smart meters so don't get hung up on it if you already monitor your usage effectively.


----------



## Canfordhacker (Sep 19, 2018)

So a year ssince this thread, which was quite binary. I have just had an appointment for a fitting sent to me out of the blue by nPower. Have things moved on in  a year regarding cross supplier compatibility? Are they all SMET2 now? What about the snooping/big brother elements? Is resistance futile? 

Should I bother?


----------



## Crazyface (Sep 19, 2018)

Nutz to 'em. Just another "Big Brother" thing.


----------



## Beezerk (Sep 19, 2018)

Funnily enough I had a missed call from N Power yesterday, wonder if it was about a smart meter.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Sep 19, 2018)

No, most still arent using SMET2 so no cross compatibility between companies. 
Still got my old digital meter, and wont be going smart meter route anytime soon.


----------



## Reemul (Sep 19, 2018)

Yeah i've been chased by npower for smart meter installation. Thing is it's a choice and you don't have to have one so I am ignoring it, no intention of getting one


----------



## rulefan (Sep 19, 2018)

FairwayDodger said:



			The classic example is filling a kettle when you only need one cup. Plenty of people leave TVs etc on when not actually watching them, lights in other rooms etc.

However, this is all just one of many benefits of smart meters so don't get hung up on it if you already monitor your usage effectively.
		
Click to expand...

There are plenty of alternatives available that do a better job of analysing usage down to appliance than smart meters. And they are supplier independent.


----------



## Marshy77 (Sep 21, 2018)

Scottish Power were supposed to fit my smart meter about 3 years ago, they didn't. I've been trying ever since to try get them to fit one and currently there unable to.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 21, 2018)

Marshy77 said:



			Scottish Power were supposed to fit my smart meter about 3 years ago, they didn't. I've been trying ever since to try get them to fit one and currently there unable to.
		
Click to expand...

We are with Scottish Power. 3 times they have arranged to fit meters and 3 times they just didn't turn up, appointment made, day off work, just didn't bother. The good news is we got a Â£75 credit each time for inconvenience. The main problem being that SP do not fit the meters, they farm it out to a 3rd party who are nigh on impossible to speak to. We have given up on it now.

If you get an appt booked and they fail to turn up, definitely complain. At least you get something back for it.


----------

