# First club interview...



## Agent Pies (Oct 30, 2014)

So I've finally got an interview at the club I'd like to join. It's where I've been having my lessons and after playing all other courses in my area, the one I like the most.

The letter states interview wear to be "smart dress/shirt & tie". To me this means I might just as well wear a suit. Or is this going ott?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2014)

Suit will be fine - better to be overdressed and then you can dress down


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## CMAC (Oct 30, 2014)

Def a suit - you could go down the blazer and slax route but it's a look I personally loathe so if you're comfortable in a suit do that.

You can never be overdressed!


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## Agent Pies (Oct 30, 2014)

Thank you chaps. Suit it is!


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## la_lucha (Oct 30, 2014)

I hate this interview thing, it's so pretentious and off putting. Why not call it a welcome meeting???


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## woody69 (Oct 30, 2014)

Does this seriously still go on? Any club that wanted to "interview" me for the privilege of taking my money can go do one.


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## CMAC (Oct 30, 2014)

la_lucha said:



			I hate this interview thing, it's so pretentious and off putting. Why not call it a welcome meeting???
		
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because its an interview! the welcome meeting comes after gaining entry.......apparently.


I've only ever had 1 interview to join a club, not a fan but if thats what they do and you want to join then thats the way the flag flutters.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 30, 2014)

Agent Pies said:



			The letter states interview wear to be "smart dress/
		
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A smart dress, is your other option. Not too much cleavage though.

Good luck.:thup:


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## devonlad (Oct 30, 2014)

I find this incredible when all the clubs near me are on the verge of closing and any money is welcome


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 30, 2014)

devonlad said:



			I find this incredible when all the clubs near me are on the verge of closing and any money is welcome
		
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Yup. When I joined my current club, I filled in the form there and then, handed over my cheque and the secretary handed me a club tag, sticker and key for the locker room. All done in 2 minutes. This from a club that 5-7yrs ago had joining fees, waiting lists, interviews etc. You must be joining a very popular club.


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## ScienceBoy (Oct 30, 2014)

I think anywhere which turns down am honest paying customer is a bit silly.

It would not put me off joining a club, if they let me in and I want to play there, all is good.

If they don't they will get a letter asking for all the detailed reasons why not, so hopefully I can resolve those issues!


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## SVB (Oct 30, 2014)

Agent Pies said:



			Thank you chaps. Suit it is!
		
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Cant go wrong with that. Where are you joining if you don't mind my asking, sounds very 'traditional' shall we say!

simon


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## HawkeyeMS (Oct 30, 2014)

I can honestly say that any club that required me to attend an interview wearing a shirt & tie wouldn't be getting my custom, I don't care how good the course is. I'd be happy enough to go and play a round with a member and have a chat on the way round (it is a golf club after all) but not suited & booted for an interview.


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## NWJocko (Oct 30, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I can honestly say that any club that required me to attend an interview wearing a shirt & tie wouldn't be getting my custom, I don't care how good the course is. I'd be happy enough to go and play a round with a member and have a chat on the way round (it is a golf club after all) but not suited & booted for an interview.
		
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Why!?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2014)

Would wearing a shirt and tie whilst having a chat really stop you joining a golf club ? 

Can I ask why ?


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## HawkeyeMS (Oct 30, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			Why!?
		
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Because it's a golf club and suited and booted interviews are about as stuffy and pretentious as it gets.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Because it's a golf club and suited and booted interviews are about as stuffy and pretentious as it gets.
		
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My interview wasn't stuffy or pretenious in the slightest - very relaxed and a nice chat 

Was asked yo relax and remove jacket etc as soon as I shook hands


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## NWJocko (Oct 30, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Because it's a golf club and suited and booted interviews are about as stuffy and pretentious as it gets.
		
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Interview is probably the wrong word. I went to one (my first) this year and was very relaxed. Still wore a suit though, as I do every day.

Not sure why having to wear a suit to go for a chat with someone is reason to stomp your feet and not join!!

Clubs down there must be struggling, most up here are still "interview", waiting list, joining fees etc


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## Leereed (Oct 30, 2014)

Should go smart casual,but a suit seem ott to me.you don't play golf in a suit.should go in your golf clothing because that's what they will see you in.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2014)

Leereed said:



			Should go smart casual,but a suit seem ott to me.you don't play golf in a suit.should go in your golf clothing because that's what they will see you in.
		
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And what happens if they are wearing a suit ?


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## NWJocko (Oct 30, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I can honestly say that any club that required me to attend an interview wearing a shirt & tie wouldn't be getting my custom, I don't care how good the course is. I'd be happy enough to go and play a round with a member and have a chat on the way round (it is a golf club after all) but not suited & booted for an interview.
		
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Out of interest did you/have you had an interview at Blackmoor? What was the required/suggested dress for that?


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## fenwayrich (Oct 30, 2014)

It is a formality, but perhaps nothing to get too worked up about.

Last year, after not having played for 20 years, I rejoined a club in Nottingham where I was previously a member for two decades, having joined as Junior when there was a waiting list for the waiting list for Adults. They now have a banner outside saying 'Membership Applications now being accepted', not even considered!. If I had walked in stark naked they would have taken my cheque.


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## HawkeyeMS (Oct 30, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			Out of interest did you/have you had an interview at Blackmoor? What was the required/suggested dress for that?
		
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Nope, no interview, not for RAGC either.


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## hovis (Oct 30, 2014)

la_lucha said:



			I hate this interview thing, it's so pretentious and off putting. Why not call it a welcome meeting???
		
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100% agree

Or they could call it a " please,  please let me give you a Â£1000" interview


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2014)

So what is it that people have a problem with ?

Wearing a shirt and tie 

Or 

Having to speak to people at the club who want to get to know you ?


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## Leereed (Oct 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And what happens if they are wearing a suit ?
		
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Go in your suit then


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2014)

Leereed said:



			Go in your suit then
		
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So if your not sure what they will be wearing wouldn't it be best to overdress first and then down dress as necessary


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## NWJocko (Oct 30, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Nope, no interview, not for RAGC either.
		
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Interesting, are they short of members or actively looking to increase? Website says interview etc hence me asking.

Couple of the gents at our table at h4h were from Blackmoor with club ties etc so just wondered.


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## hovis (Oct 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So what is it that people have a problem with ?

Wearing a shirt and tie 

Or 

Having to speak to people at the club who want to get to know you ?
		
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For me phil its strikes me more as a barrier of authority.  A kind of way of saying "your lucky to be here"


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## RW1986 (Oct 30, 2014)

What year are we in people?
I'm not a fan of this whole 'dress up for an interview'
I turned down the 'opportunity' to join Harpenden golf club because they are stuck in the olden days. No spike bar, no phones in the bar area.
It's a golf club you're joining, somewhere where you should be able to go and relax. I love going up to my golf club in a pair of jeans, polo and some vans. 
Golf clubs SHOULD be catering for the younger generation in this day and age, then so many of them wouldn't be closing down every year.


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## bluewolf (Oct 30, 2014)

I've had interviews at both clubs I've been a member at. Both were mere formalities and were more of a "sit down and get to know the people in the club" type affairs. On both occasions I've worn a suit. 

Not really sure why people are getting het up about it. Maybe it's the term "Interview". Maybe it should be called a "meet and greet". I'd still wear a suit though..


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2014)

hovis said:



			For me phil its strikes me more as a barrier of authority.  A kind of way of saying "your lucky to be here"
		
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Why ? It's just people wanting to get know you 

Find out all about you and mainly for you to ask as many questions as you want 

They now are used mainly for the golfer to get used to the golf club 

One club I know has you having to play a round with a committee member


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## hovis (Oct 30, 2014)

RW1986 said:



			What year are we in people?
I'm not a fan of this whole 'dress up for an interview'
I turned down the 'opportunity' to join Harpenden golf club because they are stuck in the olden days. No spike bar, no phones in the bar area.
It's a golf club you're joining, somewhere where you should be able to go and relax. I love going up to my golf club in a pair of jeans, polo and some vans. 
Golf clubs SHOULD be catering for the younger generation in this day and age, then so many of them wouldn't be closing down every year.
		
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Pretty much spot on imo

Never had an interview for my skydiving club or fishing syndicate


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## hovis (Oct 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why ? It's just people wanting to get know you 

Find out all about you and mainly for you to ask as many questions as you want 

They now are used mainly for the golfer to get used to the golf club 

One club I know has you having to play a round with a committee member
		
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I think playing a round with the gaffer is a much better idea.  i recon you learn alot more about someone on a golf course than in a meeting room


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2014)

RW1986 said:



			What year are we in people?
I'm not a fan of this whole 'dress up for an interview'
I turned down the 'opportunity' to join Harpenden golf club because they are stuck in the olden days. No spike bar, no phones in the bar area.
It's a golf club you're joining, somewhere where you should be able to go and relax. I love going up to my golf club in a pair of jeans, polo and some vans. 
Golf clubs SHOULD be catering for the younger generation in this day and age, then so many of them wouldn't be closing down every year.
		
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Are the younger generation unable to wear a tie and sit down and chat ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2014)

hovis said:



			I think playing a round with the gaffer is a much better idea.  i recon you learn alot more about someone on a golf course than in a meeting room
		
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The playing the round is after the chat with committee members etc


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## Leereed (Oct 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So if your not sure what they will be wearing wouldn't it be best to overdress first and then down dress as necessary
		
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Never said you should not wear a suit.like you said better to go overdressed as first impressions last.but is the game trying to move forward and move with times.bottom line is you are going to join a golf club not meet the queen.


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## HawkeyeMS (Oct 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why ? It's just people wanting to get know you 

Find out all about you and mainly for you to ask as many questions as you want 

They now are used mainly for the golfer to get used to the golf club 

One club I know has you having to play a round with a committee member
		
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So why not invite you to play a round of golf? It is a golf club after all


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## HawkeyeMS (Oct 30, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			Interesting, are they short of members or actively looking to increase? Website says interview etc hence me asking.

Couple of the gents at our table at h4h were from Blackmoor with club ties etc so just wondered.
		
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They are actively looking for members. RAGC gave me a tie when I joined, never worn it.


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## RW1986 (Oct 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are the younger generation unable to wear a tie and sit down and chat ?
		
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not at all, but golf clubs shouldn't be so 'lar de dar' these days. Young people don't want to have to wear suits to join a golf club and you shouldn't have to. 
What does it matter if someone isn't wearing a tie, surely trousers, open shirt would be acceptable?


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So if your not sure what they will be wearing wouldn't it be best to overdress first and then down dress as necessary
		
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No, phone ahead. You'd hate to turn up and you're suits clashed.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			So why not invite you to play a round of golf? It is a golf club after all
		
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Some clubs do that afterwards 

Again what is so offensive about having a chat in a relaxed environment


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2014)

RW1986 said:



			not at all, but golf clubs shouldn't be so 'lar de dar' these days. Young people don't want to have to wear suits to join a golf club and you shouldn't have to. 
What does it matter if someone isn't wearing a tie, surely trousers, open shirt would be acceptable?
		
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Is wearing a tie that bad ?


For 30 mins of someone's life to wear a tie 

Every year we have our annual juniors vs club match - it's normally relaxed afterwards 

This year the juniors asked to wear jacket and tie - their choice

But to turn down joining a club regardless of the standard of the course because they have to wear a tie and have a chat imo is a bit daft


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## hovis (Oct 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Some clubs do that afterwards 

Again what is so offensive about having a chat in a relaxed environment
		
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Its not the act of sitting down suited and booted its the fact that its a requirement to goin a sports club. It's not the masonic lodge 

Would you be happy to have a sit down interview at your local living well gym?   However, i would say walking round the gym and showing the personal trainer you not a muppet and you know what your doing isn't a big ask


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2014)

hovis said:



			Its not the act of sitting down suited and booted its the fact that its a requirement.

Would you be happy to have a sit down interview at your local living well gym?   However, i would say walking round the gym and showing the personal trainer you not a muppet and you know what your doing isn't a big ask
		
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I wouldn't compare the gym to a golf club 

And again its not an interview really anymore - it's a chat between grown men with both asking questions


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## NWJocko (Oct 30, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			They are actively looking for members. RAGC gave me a tie when I joined, never worn it.
		
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So, if they weren't actively looking to increase and the process was an interview (as per their website) you wouldn't have entertained them and gone elsewhere?

Fwiw, I don't overly bother about dress codes etc, bigger things to worry about, however just interested in the view that you wouldn't join a club (very good one at that by all accounts) purely because they have an interview.


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## hovis (Oct 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I wouldn't compare the gym to a golf club 

And again its not an interview really anymore - it's a chat between grown men with both asking questions
		
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Why wouldn't you compare them? I would argue that a plonker in a gym is more destructive than one on the course.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2014)

hovis said:



			Why wouldn't you compare them? I would argue that a plonker in a gym is more destructive than one on the course.
		
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Because one is a gym and the other is a golf club - just too different 

A golf club is also a social club afterwards it's the whole package 

I just wouldn't compare them


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## richart (Oct 30, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			Interesting, are they short of members or actively looking to increase? Website says interview etc hence me asking.

Couple of the gents at our table at h4h were from Blackmoor with club ties etc so just wondered.
		
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I had an interview at Blackmoor when I joined about six years ago. No dress code for the interview, 'smart casual' As I came from work I wore a suit, and met a lovely lady in the dining room.  I say interview, but it was really so I could ask questions about the Club, and to hear her tell me why I should join. All very relaxed.  

I did get played in by the same lady in a roll up, and just managed to get round without making too much of a fool of myself. She taught me a few new swear words which was nice. Swearing like a trooper is a requirement of membership.


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## hovis (Oct 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because one is a gym and the other is a golf club - just too different 

A golf club is also a social club afterwards it's the whole package 

I just wouldn't compare them
		
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Phil, i know many people that go the gym, work out side by side, sit in a sauna, have a swim and go in the bar for a triple chocolate cake and "diet coke "  

They spend half the day there.  In such confined and intimate surroundings i would say a gym has more cause for an interview than a golf course.  They dont require an interview because folk would tell them to sling it


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## NWJocko (Oct 30, 2014)

richart said:



			I had an interview at Blackmoor when I joined about six years ago. No dress code for the interview, 'smart casual' As I came from work I wore a suit, and met a lovely lady in the dining room.  I say interview, but it was really so I could ask questions about the Club, and to hear her tell me why I should join. All very relaxed.  

I did get played in by the same lady in a roll up, and just managed to get round without making too much of a fool of myself. She taught me a few new swear words which was nice. Swearing like a trooper is a requirement of membership.

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From what Homer says Hawkeye will be up to scratch on the swearing front.... 

Looks a really nice course, need to get down that way golfing again, H4H whetted the appetite. Plus Rick owes me a night out........


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## bluewolf (Oct 30, 2014)

hovis said:



			Phil, i know many people that go the gym, work out side by side, sit in a sauna, have a swim and go in the bar for a triple chocolate cake and "diet coke "  

They spend half the day there.  In such confined and intimate surroundings i would say a gym has more cause for an interview than a golf course.  They dont require an interview because folk would tell them to sling it
		
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But, a Gym usually has much more forms to fill in, including a medical questionnaire, that requires a visit to the Doctor if you answer No to any of their questions. I'd love to see that at the Golf Club. The Surgery would be packed out every week.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2014)

hovis said:



			Phil, i know many people that go the gym, work out side by side, sit in a sauna, have a swim and go in the bar for a triple chocolate cake and "diet coke "  

They spend half the day there.  In such confined and intimate surroundings i would say a gym has more cause for an interview than a golf course.  They dont require an interview because folk would tell them to sling it
		
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And I treat the gym nothing like that where as I spend evenings up the golf club and take part In matches etc etc 

I wouldn't compare the two and had no issue putting a tie on and having a talk with hhe captain and president whilst they told me how great the club is and I could enjoy life there - no stuffy pretenious interview


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## hovis (Oct 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And I treat the gym nothing like that where as I spend evenings up the golf club and take part In matches etc etc 

I wouldn't compare the two and had no issue putting a tie on and having a talk with hhe captain and president whilst they told me how great the club is and I could enjoy life there - no stuffy pretenious interview
		
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I see what your saying 

I have to add that i dont treat a golf club like you.  Dont think ive been inside the bar at my club once.  If you look in the dictionary for car park golfer you will see my name next to it.  I often stop by my gym for a chat and protein shake


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## LanDog (Oct 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are the younger generation unable to wear a tie and sit down and chat ?
		
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Can we do it over text instead? :rofl:

One of the clubs I might join has an interview process which the secretary informed was very informal and not to worry, I'm perfectly fine with an interview as it is an investment of time and money that has to be considered. Although I asked if I could play a round with a member of the club so I could get a feel for the place and they could show me around as I hadn't played the course before and I'm still relatively new to the area. The secretary sorted something out for me and then my appendix went so I haven't had the chance to play yet but so far it's been very promising!


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## Smiffy (Oct 31, 2014)

Things must be a bit different in Sussex.
I've been a member of 3 clubs over the years, Crowborough Beacon, Highwoods and now Cooden.
All three required me to attend "interviews" and all three required me to wear collar and tie.
Did I mind?.... 
Not a bit.
When I was at Crowborough, I looked on it as a privilege to be a member there.
I feel the same way about Cooden, despite the fact that I am a flexi member, rather than full.
My interview was held with the Secretary and the Captain, and was very informal despite the fact that we were all "suited and booted".
Despite my online persona indicating otherwise, I consider myself to be a traditionalist and as such would never turn down the opportunity to be a member somewhere just because their dress codes (or other rules come to that) might seem a little old fashioned.


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## Slab (Oct 31, 2014)

I havnt been to one but any club that has an interview process and then tells you not to worry about the interview must surely know that it has that effect on some people, so why not change it!


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## Hacker Khan (Oct 31, 2014)

I think some clubs can get away with 'an interview' and some could well do with 'rebranding' it.  If a club is struggling for members then saying they will need to 'interview people' and they need to wear a suit is possibly not sending out the right message. As it gives the impression that the golf club is doing you a favour by letting you join.  Where as it is as much the other way round in times of falling membership.  

People will always associate interviews with going for a job where you could be successful or not.  And the thought that you need to 'pass' an interview in order to be able to give a golf club a relatively large sum of money may seem a bit daft to a lot of potential members.

I agree it's not a big thing to stick on a suit, but if it's rebranded as more of a chat/induction (if that is what it really is) then it would seem a lot more sensible.  And if the club does have a waiting list to join and they can be picky who they let join then go ahead and call it an interview.  Don't really agree with it, but in that case it may be more that the prestige of joining that club can justify interviewing people.

And referring to a recent conversation, to me joining a gym and joining a golf club could be seen as similar in todays society to potential members as they are both leisure pass times.  And saying one is more worthy/important etc and therefore needs an interview seems a little antiquated to me.  Fully appreciate that most old boys for want of a better description will see golf club membership as a completely different thing, but I'm not convinced the younger generation and potential members the game needs to attract will.  In fact you could argue that joining a gym is a much more attractive proposition to a lot of females, judging by the very poor female membership numbers golf clubs have in the UK.


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## Slab (Oct 31, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			I think some clubs can get away with 'an interview' and some could well do with 'rebranding' it.  If a club is struggling for members then saying they will need to 'interview people' and they need to wear a suit is possibly not sending out the right message. As it gives the impression that the golf club is doing you a favour by letting you join.  Where as it is as much the other way round in times of falling membership.  

People will always associate interviews with going for a job where you could be successful or not.  And the thought that you need to 'pass' an interview in order to be able to give a golf club a relatively large sum of money may seem a bit daft to a lot of potential members.

I agree it's not a big thing to stick on a suit, but if it's rebranded as more of a chat/induction (if that is what it really is) then it would seem a lot more sensible.  And if the club does have a waiting list to join and they can be picky who they let join then go ahead and call it an interview.  Don't really agree with it, but in that case it may be more that the prestige of joining that club can justify interviewing people.

And referring to a recent conversation, to me joining a gym and joining a golf club could be seen as similar in todays society to potential members as they are both leisure pass times.  And saying one is more worthy/important etc and therefore needs an interview seems a little antiquated to me.  Fully appreciate that most old boys for want of a better description will see golf club membership as a completely different thing, but I'm not convinced the younger generation and potential members the game needs to attract will.  In fact you could argue that joining a gym is a much more attractive proposition to a lot of females, judging by the very poor female membership numbers golf clubs have in the UK.
		
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Lot of sense in that

Always thought of an interview as a two way street anyway i.e I'm interviewing them too, so as much as there would be expectations of me then they had better be able to perform on behalf of the club

For those who've had/do them, who typically does the interviews anyway?


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## Smiffy (Oct 31, 2014)

Slab said:



			For those who've had/do them, who typically does the interviews anyway?
		
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My interviewer (in all instances) has been the Secretary. 
And to say it was an "interview" is a little over the top, more of an informal chat to explain what my category of membership entitled me to, to explain a little of the history of the club, and to confirm dress codes.
Coodens dress code is quite strict, no jeans etc. with jacket and tie being required in the dining room at all times, although obviously smart casual in the remainder of the bar area.
I don't mind these rules. I would never (ever) turn up at any golf club in jeans.
Even if I were just dropping a club off to the pro shop for repair (or something similar) I wouldn't do it in jeans.


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## Slab (Oct 31, 2014)

Smiffy said:



			My interviewer (in all instances) has been the Secretary. 
And to say it was an "interview" is a little over the top, more of an informal chat to explain what my category of membership entitled me to, to explain a little of the history of the club, and to confirm dress codes.
Coodens dress code is quite strict, no jeans etc. with jacket and tie being required in the dining room at all times, although obviously smart casual in the remainder of the bar area.
I don't mind these rules. I would never (ever) turn up at any golf club in jeans.
Even if I were just dropping a club off to the pro shop for repair (or something similar) I wouldn't do it in jeans.
		
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So was the Secretary competent in what they should be doing? Often wondered that while no doubting their commitment to the club, do the folks that meet with applicants due to a committee position have the right social & communication skills and would some clubs benefit from identifying 'membership' as a separate area and putting in a dedicated resource   



Took the opportunity to click on Cooden membership

The form seems fairly straightforward, the only part that would irk is the questions about occupation/employer. I can see how as part of a relaxed chat it would usually crop up but as part of the application form itself, well it really has no place being part of the assessment 

Looks a nice club though


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## Smiffy (Oct 31, 2014)

Slab said:



			So was the Secretary competent in what they should be doing? Often wondered that while no doubting their commitment to the club, do the folks that meet with applicants due to a committee position have the right social & communication skills
		
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He did ok.
He's a nice bloke


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## Break90 (Oct 31, 2014)

My interview last year was with the membership secretary, vice-captain and another member of the committee.

Took 30 mins or so, they asked about my golf history, and why I wanted to join.

i asked more questions than they did, mainly about why I should join, comp-formats, club matches etc.

Was then asked to play an introductory round with the vice-captain, was a member 2 weeks later and haven't looked back.

we're a private members club with a waiting list, so traditions like this are likely to remain for the foreseeable. I don't have an issue with it to be honest.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 31, 2014)

Going against the grain with this but I think interviews to join a members club are for me a good thing - and a rather nice thing actually.  If you want to think about the negative things that they might mean or imply about a club then methinks you think too much.


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## Alex1975 (Oct 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Some clubs do that afterwards 

Again what is so offensive about having a chat in a relaxed environment
		
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You dont need to know about me unless I chose to share! I am paying to be a member of the club, they are not paying me....

I would never join a club that required an interview. This will happen less and less as more clubs go out of business. The world is changing! When I am paying I am the customer and x is the supplier. Trying to make a golf club out to be something more than a place to do a hobby like a gym is incorrect in my opinion. Golf club people are not better than any other type of people!


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## CMAC (Oct 31, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			You dont need to know about me unless I chose to share! I am paying to be a member of the club, they are not paying me....

I would never join a club that required an interview. This will happen less and less as more clubs go out of business. The world is changing! When I am paying I am the customer and x is the supplier. Trying to make a golf club out to be something more than a place to do a hobby like a gym is incorrect in my opinion. Golf club people are not better than any other type of people!
		
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oh dear- sweeping statement city!


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## Alex1975 (Oct 31, 2014)

CMAC said:



			oh dear- sweeping statement city!
		
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Hehe, go on then, enlighten me?


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## CMAC (Oct 31, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Going against the grain with this but I think interviews to join a members club are for me a good thing - and a rather nice thing actually.  If you want to think about the negative things that they might mean or imply about a club then methinks you think too much.
		
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and what many seem to be missing is it's your opportunity to ask a zillion questions to ensure you are joining a club that suits you. Saves any moaning later because "I didn't know about such and such"


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			You dont need to know about me unless I chose to share! I am paying to be a member of the club, they are not paying me....

I would never join a club that required an interview. This will happen less and less as more clubs go out of business. The world is changing! When I am paying I am the customer and x is the supplier. Trying to make a golf club out to be something more than a place to do a hobby like a gym is incorrect in my opinion. Golf club people are not better than any other type of people!
		
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Wow - where to start 

1. Where did anyone say golfers are better than anyone else 

2. A great deal of people do think of their golf club as more than just somewhere to play golf 

3. A number of clubs in this area having growing waiting lists and need an interview - they won't go out if business 

4. Thankfully there are still a lot more golf clubs around that treat the place as a golf club and somewhere for everyone and the families etc and not just a business looking for faceless people to pay money


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## Alex1975 (Oct 31, 2014)

Internet.... telephone.... play the course.....


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 31, 2014)

CMAC said:



			and what many seem to be missing is it's your opportunity to ask a zillion questions to ensure you are joining a club that suits you. Saves any moaning later because "I didn't know about such and such"
		
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Quite - I really don't get why there is in many a push back against this sort of thing,  Are some of us getting a bit too precious about ourselves these days. 

My club has an interview process - and we do 'play ins'.  But are we stuffy, old-fashioned and unwelcoming?  Well a potential new member was speaking with the secretary last Saturday morning and she brought him through to the club lounge where the roll-up had just been sorted and where we were sitting.  The first group of our roll-up was about to go off - the secretary pointed us out and noted we were going off else maybe he could have played with us.  As the first two groups out were three balls (the rest 4 balls) I asked if he wanted to play - he did - so I popped off to the 1st tee and asked the 2nd three ball to wait - as we had a fourth player for that group.  They were of course more than happy to do so, and so our prospective new member got a free round of golf with three excellent guys and a full introduction to our Saturday roll-up.  

So tell me again why being asked to attend an interview would stop you becoming a member of my place?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 31, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			Internet.... telephone.... play the course.....
		
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Fine and sorted - you don't need to be a member of a club.


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## Alex1975 (Oct 31, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Fine and sorted - you don't need to be a member of a club.
		
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Hehe... I am a member of a club... I just dont have to interview to be a member, they let me just pay them money and in return treat me like a customer.


Why do you care that I would not interview... why does that upset you? Just because it does not fit your old man ways?


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## bluewolf (Oct 31, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			Why do you care that I would not interview... why does that upset you? Just because it does not fit your old man ways?
		
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Incredibly concescending.. Not necessary at all..


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 31, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			Hehe... I am a member of a club... I just dont have to interview to be a member, they let me just pay them money and in return treat me like a customer.


Why do you care that I would not interview... why does that upset you? Just because it does not fit your old man ways?
		
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For a start it demonstrates a very closed mind.  

BTW - you are happy that as a member you are treated as a customer


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## User20205 (Oct 31, 2014)

I'm the other way. I'd refuse to join a club which didn't vet their members first. If I give up my weekend to play golf, I don't want to play with just anyone!!! 

I need to be assured they have the 'correct' background, it saves any embarrassment on both sides


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## Alex1975 (Oct 31, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			For a start it demonstrates a very closed mind.  

BTW - you are happy that as a member you are treated as a customer 

Click to expand...


If it does and I don't think it does.... why do you care?

Very happy to be treated as a customer! Its as it should be... golf clubs are just like any other service and lets me honest, we are told golf is dieing so golf needs to catch up with the rest of the leisure industries.


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## Alex1975 (Oct 31, 2014)

therod said:



			I'm the other way. I'd refuse to join a club which didn't vet their members first. If I give up my weekend to play golf, I don't want to play with just anyone!!! 

I need to be assured they have the 'correct' background, it saves any embarrassment on both sides
		
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Tut tut Nick....


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## richart (Oct 31, 2014)

therod said:



			I'm the other way. I'd refuse to join a club which didn't vet their members first. If I give up my weekend to play golf, I don't want to play with just anyone!!! 

I need to be assured they have the 'correct' background, it saves any embarrassment on both sides
		
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 How did you get through the net ?


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## richart (Oct 31, 2014)

I am a member of my club, not a customer. Don't customers go to pay and play courses ?

Interesting the question on application forms about profession. My mate is an accountant so was asked about being Club treasurer. Would have had his fees paid, but he was too busy to take on the job. Another chap I know is a sign writer, and he did all the new honour's boards in lieu of his fees. Seems it can actually be an advantage to club and member knowing someones occupation. Of course others may prefer to think of it as Big Brother.oo:


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## Alex1975 (Oct 31, 2014)

richart said:



			I am a member of my club, not a customer. Don't customers go to pay and play courses ?

Interesting the question on application forms about profession. My mate is an accountant so was asked about being Club treasurer. Would have had his fees paid, but he was too busy to take on the job. Another chap I know is a sign writer, and he did all the new honour's boards in lieu of his fees. Seems it can actually be an advantage to club and member knowing someones occupation. Of course others may prefer to think of it as Big Brother.oo:
		
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I work in finance, the owner of the club know that and that I will look after them if it comes up. A drink in the bar was good enough for that chat. No need for an interview.


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## Slab (Oct 31, 2014)

richart said:



			I am a member of my club, not a customer. Don't customers go to pay and play courses ?

*Interesting the question on application forms about profession. My mate is an accountant so was asked about being Club treasurer. Would have had his fees paid, but he was too busy to take on the job. Another chap I know is a sign writer, and he did all the new honour's boards in lieu of his fees. Seems it can actually be an advantage to club and member knowing someones occupation. Of course others may prefer to think of it as Big Brother*.oo:
		
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I think profession its a perfectly natural Q to ask after meeting (and being accepted) as a member... not before being accepted. Whether intentional or not, including it on the application implies that its part of your assessment and acceptance criteria


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## Hacker Khan (Oct 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wow - where to start 

1. Where did anyone say golfers are better than anyone else 

2. A great deal of people do think of their golf club as more than just somewhere to play golf 

3. A number of clubs in this area having growing waiting lists and need an interview - they won't go out if business 

4. Thankfully there are still a lot more golf clubs around that treat the place as a golf club and somewhere for everyone and the families etc and not just a business looking for faceless people to pay money
		
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I'd probably question the 4th point as one of the main reasons given for the pathetically low number of female members at UK golf courses when compared to everywhere else in Europe is the very lack of the golf club being a place for families.  

I'd say most golf clubs need to attract both types really (people who see it more of a social hub and faceless types who pay money), as faceless people paying money are still paying money to keep the club going.   And beggars can't be choosers for a lot of golf clubs.  But acknowledge this is not the case for all clubs.


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## richart (Oct 31, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			I work in finance, the owner of the club know that and that I will look after them if it comes up. A drink in the bar was good enough for that chat. No need for an interview.
		
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 Not an interview question, but one on some clubs application forms. 

I love the idea of someone looking to join a Club like Sunningdale, and turning it down because they are asked to attend an interview.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 31, 2014)

Times, they are a changing

When I joined Royal Ascot I had to have a "formal" interview in jacket and tie but actually knowing the captain that year, it was just a box ticking exercise and not the full process. For a while after that it continued to be the same format. About 5-6 years ago it was changed to smart casual and for the last three years or so the club has been doing membership open days.

Prospective members can roll up to the club, meet the directors and the captain etc, play nine holes with someone from the club and get the guided tour of the facilities and a chance to meet the pros etc. If they ar eitnerested they can fill the forms in there and then and usually an administrative process to activate the membership, process the cash and in they come.

Would I want jacket and tie if I was joining somewhere new? If I was going to a club steeped in tradition like a West Hill or North Hants and that was still their policy then of course I would without hesitation. If I was joining a run of the mill club similar to my own then, I'd be surprised if they insisted on such formality but at the end of the day it's still a selection process and I guess you need to follow the criteria laid down

Many clubs are struggling and fortunately many have cottoned onto the fact that in most cases jacket and tie is off putting to prospective memebrs, especially newbies to golf who perhaps don't have the same fel for the traditions and bygone etiquettes many on here have. Membership should be a lot more accessible on both sides now, as a prospective joinee and for the club to be able to get people through the door, paying subs and hopefully using the club and facilities (and therefor espending cash) as much a possible


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## User20205 (Oct 31, 2014)

richart said:



			How did you get through the net ?

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Lies and bribery:thup: I also have some photos of the ladies captain, she'd rather they didn't come to light.



richart said:



			I am a member of my club, not a customer. Don't customers go to pay and play courses ?

Interesting the question on application forms about profession. My mate is an accountant so was asked about being Club treasurer. Would have had his fees paid, but he was too busy to take on the job. Another chap I know is a sign writer, and he did all the new honour's boards in lieu of his fees. Seems it can actually be an advantage to club and member knowing someones occupation. Of course others may prefer to think of it as Big Brother.oo:
		
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Did you upset the sign writer fella??   I don't recall seeing the mixed winter foursomes (aka the Leo sayer shield) up at blackmoor??

I think we've done away with interviews. I didn't have one, just a cosy skinny latte with the commitee whilst dressed in golf gear. Followed by 12 holes of fun:thup:


If the club had required one, I would have played the game. It's only a little chat


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## Alex1975 (Oct 31, 2014)

richart said:



			I love the idea of someone looking to join a Club like Sunningdale, and turning it down because they are asked to attend an interview. 

Click to expand...

Is it free to join with no subs, if so I will interview... if I am paying... and I know I would be, then no, I would not interview.


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## gdc (Oct 31, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			Hehe... I am a member of a club... I just dont have to interview to be a member, they let me just pay them money and in return treat me like a customer.


Why do you care that I would not interview... why does that upset you? Just because it does not fit your old man ways?
		
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So you're quite happy that any old Tom, Dick and Harry with a thousand pounds can walk into your club and buy a membership ticket. 

I'd rather know my club were trying to prevent the recruitment of unsuitable members (although in reality these would be miniscule in number) and in addition providing the prospective member with all the information about the club to assist them in finding their feet quickly.


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## Hacker Khan (Oct 31, 2014)

gdc said:



			So you're quite happy that any old Tom, Dick and Harry with a thousand pounds can walk into your club and buy a membership ticket. 

I'd rather know my club were trying to prevent the recruitment of unsuitable members (although in reality these would be miniscule in number) and in addition providing the prospective member with all the information about the club to assist them in finding their feet quickly.
		
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Serious question, if someone had a grand to pay to be a member of a golf club then what would make them 'unsuitable'?  Are we talking behaviour, ability, appearance?


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## fundy (Oct 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wow - where to start 

1. Where did anyone say golfers are better than anyone else 

2. A great deal of people do think of their golf club as more than just somewhere to play golf 

*3. A number of clubs in this area having growing waiting lists and need an interview - they won't go out if business *

4. Thankfully there are still a lot more golf clubs around that treat the place as a golf club and somewhere for everyone and the families etc and not just a business looking for faceless people to pay money
		
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Really? Which ones?


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## Fyldewhite (Oct 31, 2014)

Much talk of interviews, induction meetings etc. These things are only a part of the process of introducing a new member. Very few would argue that there should not be any process whereby some applications can be refused. It isn't as simple as "I'm stumping up the cash - you must let me join" and there's a few on this thread who seem to be advocating that.

Would you be happy if a known violent offender, or convicted rapist, child molester, thief or whatever were simply allowed to join on payment of the fee? I very much doubt it ......so I'm assuming we agree there has to be some sort of process?

As for interviews, I know of very few clubs where this is anything more than a formality once the application has been examined and members allowed to voice any objections......the bit you probably don't see but almost always takes place.....list of new members on noticeboard etc. If there is a formal one akin to a job interview then I'm right with you in saying it's the type of club I've little time for. But to say "I would never join a club that conducts an interview" is potentially cutting off your nose to spite your face and IMO a pretty narrow (some may say ridiculous) point of view.


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## Alex1975 (Oct 31, 2014)

gdc said:



			So you're quite happy that any old Tom, Dick and Harry with a thousand pounds can walk into your club and buy a membership ticket.
		
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Absolutely


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## richart (Oct 31, 2014)

therod said:



			Lies and bribery:thup: I also have some photos of the ladies captain, she'd rather they didn't come to light.



Did you upset the sign writer fella??   I don't recall seeing the mixed winter foursomes (aka the Leo sayer shield) up at blackmoor??

I think we've done away with interviews. I didn't have one, just a cosy skinny latte with the commitee whilst dressed in golf gear. Followed by 12 holes of fun:thup:


If the club had required one, I would have played the game. It's only a little chat
		
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 I am playing him in the winter league so I will be getting to the bottom of the missing major board. :thup:


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## Smiffy (Oct 31, 2014)

I remember when I had my interview at Crowborough all those years agoâ€¦.
Very relaxed, just me and the Secretary, and he was explaining about the social side of membership and telling me about all the functions etc. that they held.
â€œYouâ€™ll love Monday nights Robâ€ he said. â€œA few of the lads get together, we have a â€œlock inâ€ and get the cards out and stay up into the small wee hours playing poker. Youâ€™ll love itâ€ he said.
â€œWell Iâ€™ve got to be honestâ€ I replied, Iâ€™m not really into gambling.
â€œOh wellâ€ he sighed. â€œNever mind, thereâ€™s always Tuesday nightsâ€
â€œWhy? What happens on Tuesday nights?â€ I enquired.
â€œWell a few of the lads pay for some of the local fillies to come up to the club, we lock the doors again and take it in turns to give them a right old rogering over the snooker tableâ€ he said.
â€œErrrr, thatâ€™s not really my cup of tea eitherâ€ I replied.
â€œMy God man, youâ€™re not queer are you?â€ he bellowed?
â€œNo I am notâ€ I retorted.
â€œDamn, youâ€™re not going to enjoy Wednesday nights either thenâ€


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## richart (Oct 31, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			Is it free to join with no subs, if so I will interview... if I am paying... and I know I would be, then no, I would not interview.
		
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 I will never understand that view point. So let's just say you move to  Surrey, where nearly all clubs require an interview. Instead of joining a decent one near where you live, you would rather drive miles to find one that doesn't require an interview.

All I can say is re-arrange these words : off, nose, face, your, cutting, to, spite, your.


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## richart (Oct 31, 2014)

Smiffy said:



			I remember when I had my interview at Crowborough all those years agoâ€¦.
Very relaxed, just me and the Secretary, and he was explaining about the social side of membership and telling me about all the functions etc. that they held.
â€œYouâ€™ll love Monday nights Robâ€ he said. â€œA few of the lads get together, we have a â€œlock inâ€ and get the cards out and stay up into the small wee hours playing poker. Youâ€™ll love itâ€ he said.
â€œWell Iâ€™ve got to be honestâ€ I replied, Iâ€™m not really into gambling.
â€œOh wellâ€ he sighed. â€œNever mind, thereâ€™s always Tuesday nightsâ€
â€œWhy? What happens on Tuesday nights?â€ I enquired.
â€œWell a few of the lads pay for some of the local fillies to come up to the club, we lock the doors again and take it in turns to give them a right old rogering over the snooker tableâ€ he said.
â€œErrrr, thatâ€™s not really my cup of tea eitherâ€ I replied.
â€œMy God man, youâ€™re not queer are you?â€ he bellowed?
â€œNo I am notâ€ I retorted.
â€œDamn, youâ€™re not going to enjoy Wednesday nights either thenâ€
		
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 Come on, we want to know what happens on a Thursday and Friday.


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## Alex1975 (Oct 31, 2014)

Smiffy said:



			I remember when I had my interview at Crowborough all those years agoâ€¦.
Very relaxed, just me and the Secretary, and he was explaining about the social side of membership and telling me about all the functions etc. that they held.
â€œYouâ€™ll love Monday nights Robâ€ he said. â€œA few of the lads get together, we have a â€œlock inâ€ and get the cards out and stay up into the small wee hours playing poker. Youâ€™ll love itâ€ he said.
â€œWell Iâ€™ve got to be honestâ€ I replied, Iâ€™m not really into gambling.
â€œOh wellâ€ he sighed. â€œNever mind, thereâ€™s always Tuesday nightsâ€
â€œWhy? What happens on Tuesday nights?â€ I enquired.
â€œWell a few of the lads pay for some of the local fillies to come up to the club, we lock the doors again and take it in turns to give them a right old rogering over the snooker tableâ€ he said.
â€œErrrr, thatâ€™s not really my cup of tea eitherâ€ I replied.
â€œMy God man, youâ€™re not queer are you?â€ he bellowed?
â€œNo I am notâ€ I retorted.
â€œDamn, youâ€™re not going to enjoy Wednesday nights either thenâ€
		
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:clap:


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## CMAC (Oct 31, 2014)

richart said:



			Come on, we want to know what happens on a Thursday and Friday.

Click to expand...

rest days where they go over new applications


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 31, 2014)

I wonder how many people are turned down by clubs after an interview? Not many I suspect, not now especially. I have to smile at some people having to fill in a profession section of a form. What has that got to do with your prospective membership? Very old fashioned view of people. With regards to the jacket and tie question, personally I hate wearing a tie and rarely do so. Having to wear one in my leisure time would go against the grain but if it was a club I lusted after and it was for an interview only then I would do it. Not that a big deal. I would certainly never join a club that insisted on that dress in the bar but for a one off interview I'd suck it up and get on with it. Have to be a good club though.

Now to work out how I can visit Crowborough GC.


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 31, 2014)

Fyldewhite said:



			Much talk of interviews, induction meetings etc. These things are only a part of the process of introducing a new member. Very few would argue that there should not be any process whereby some applications can be refused. It isn't as simple as "I'm stumping up the cash - you must let me join" and there's a few on this thread who seem to be advocating that.

Would you be happy if a known violent offender, or convicted rapist, child molester, thief or whatever were simply allowed to join on payment of the fee? I very much doubt it ......so I'm assuming we agree there has to be some sort of process?

As for interviews, I know of very few clubs where this is anything more than a formality once the application has been examined and members allowed to voice any objections......the bit you probably don't see but almost always takes place.....list of new members on noticeboard etc. If there is a formal one akin to a job interview then I'm right with you in saying it's the type of club I've little time for. But to say "I would never join a club that conducts an interview" is potentially cutting off your nose to spite your face and IMO a pretty narrow (some may say ridiculous) point of view.
		
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Well said sir, some proper nonsense posted by a few on here.

A couple of Questions.......would you turn down a Sunningdale membership if you had to attend an interview?

If you were membership chairman of your club would you accept a cheque for membership from an early release axe murderer ?

Sorry Richart, missed your earlier post!.


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## jp5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Had always been uncertain of suited & booted interviews for a golf club, but went to one at a nice local course that I would have liked to join.

Honestly, the interview was more uptight than any interview I've ever had before. Grilled by the captain and secretary, in their matching club blazers, about every area of my life.

Membership interviews should be a thing of the past, but if they must exist it should be in the form of a chat over a few holes.

Hopefully there are some more forward thinking clubs out there or golf membership is going to fall off a cliff.


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## Alex1975 (Oct 31, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Well said sir, some proper nonsense posted by a few on here.

A couple of Questions.......would you turn down a Sunningdale membership if you had to attend an interview?

If you were membership chairman of your club would you accept a cheque for membership from an early release axe murderer ?

Sorry Richart, missed your earlier post!.
		
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Is it a usual question in a golf club interview "have you killed anyone with an axe?" 

My question to you is, how do you know the membership chairman is not a pedo or killer. The point being, who gets to chose who is allowed to be a member?! I am paying, your running a business, do you want my money?!


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## bluewolf (Oct 31, 2014)

Just as an afterthought. A few people have mentioned that clubs need members and that the interview was one reason tha people weren't joining. I find it quite strange that the 2 courses nearest to me that have closed were both "turn up, pay your membership, and play" type courses (Standish Court and Charnock Richard). All the traditional members clubs that require interviews are still running.


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## Hacker Khan (Oct 31, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Just as an afterthought. A few people have mentioned that clubs need members and that the interview was one reason tha people weren't joining. I find it quite strange that the 2 courses nearest to me that have closed were both "turn up, pay your membership, and play" type courses (Standish Court and Charnock Richard). All the traditional members clubs that require interviews are still running.
		
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But I'm sure there are plenty of examples either way.  I know a club with a very nice course that is hemorrhaging members at a vast rate, whacking up membership fees yet still insist on interviews, jacket and ties at dinner etc etc and are essentially living in the 1980s when it was a very popular club and they could get away with such things.

I am sure that the interview process is not the main reason why it is going down the toilet as there are many other reasons, but it contributes to the 'culture' of the club. And it seems patently obvious to me that an easy way to try and stem the tide is to make themselves a bit more 'friendly' if they are to survive.

As I've said before, I think for a lot of clubs it could be easily sorted out by just calling it an induction or 'getting to know you' session.  As people are used to those when joining sports clubs, it feels less intimidating and from what people say, that is mostly what they are anyway.  Induction sounds more friendly, an interview does not and lets face it, no one likes going for interviews if they can help it.


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## DCB (Oct 31, 2014)

Right, some silly posts have been tidied up and moved to the dark side. Please keep things civil, no petty name calling  or aggressive  threats please.

Take this as a general warning :angry:


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## richart (Oct 31, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			The point being, who gets to chose who is allowed to be a member?! I am paying, your running a business, do you want my money?!
		
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 Crossed wires ? You seem to be talking about Corporate Clubs, where as most of us are talking about members Clubs. We don't have a 'your who runs the business' If my Club was a business it would have gone bust years ago.


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## bluewolf (Oct 31, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			But I'm sure there are plenty of examples either way.  I know a course that is hemorrhaging members at a vast rate, whacking up membership fees yet still insist on interviews, jacket and ties at dinner etc etc and are essentially living in the 1980s when it was a very popular club and they could get away with such things.

I am sure that the interview process is not the main reason why it is going down the toilet as there are many other reasons, but it is contributes to the 'culture' of the club.  

As I've said before, I think for a lot of clubs it could be easily sorted out by just calling it an induction or 'getting to know you' session.  As people are used to those when joining sports clubs, it feels less intimidating and from what people say, that is mostly what they are anyway.  Induction sounds more friendly, an interview does not and lets face it, no one likes going for interviews if they can help it.
		
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It would be interesting to see which clubs are shutting. Like I said, the only ones around here are the more casual ones. I really doubt that the interview is any sort of reason for this, but it does appear to show that people are not flocking away from traditional clubs. As long as there is a decent selection of clubs to join then there shouldn't be a problem. I really don't understand people who claim they wouldn't join a club that required a meeting before joining. Strange behaviour.


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## Hacker Khan (Oct 31, 2014)

richart said:



			Crossed wires ? You seem to be talking about Corporate Clubs, where as most of us are talking about members Clubs. We don't have a 'your who runs the business' If my Club was a business it would have gone bust years ago.

Click to expand...

Genuine question then, how do members club survive in the long term if they would be bust if they were a business?  I take from that that they must be losing money and making a loss every year?  So how do they make that sustainable?


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## Hacker Khan (Oct 31, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			It would be interesting to see which clubs are shutting. Like I said, the only ones around here are the more casual ones. I really doubt that the interview is any sort of reason for this, but it does appear to show that people are not flocking away from traditional clubs. As long as there is a decent selection of clubs to join then there shouldn't be a problem. I *really don't understand people who claim they wouldn't join a club that required a meeting before joining.* Strange behaviour.
		
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To be honest I agree but i think some of the argument has been muddied in the terminology.  I'd find it hard to believe anyone would not join if it was called an induction.  And I suspect just about everyone would go for an 'interview' if it was a very prestigious club they wanted to join, even an old trott like me would if the club was right.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 31, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			It would be interesting to see which clubs are shutting. Like I said, the only ones around here are the more casual ones. I really doubt that the interview is any sort of reason for this, but it does appear to show that people are not flocking away from traditional clubs. As long as there is a decent selection of clubs to join then there shouldn't be a problem. I really don't understand people who claim they wouldn't join a club that required a meeting before joining. Strange behaviour.
		
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I think our membership is growing at the moment though we were some 50 bodies down.  Anyway - I'm not sure that as 'part owner' of a members club I'm that interested in us having as members any rather self-important folks who think that they and their money are so vital for my club that we should kowtow to them and their every demand of us - be that dispensing with an interview because they don't fancy it or whatever.  I'm more than happy that they take themselves and their money elsewhere to be honest.


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## richart (Oct 31, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Genuine question then, how do members club survive in the long term if they would be bust if they were a business?  I take from that that they must be losing money and making a loss every year?  So how do they make that sustainable?
		
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 We just break even, but carry a debt over from previous years. Club nearly closed 15 years or so ago, so I am led to believe.

Assets would easily pay off debt, so as a business we would have been sold off for housing years ago.


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## Imurg (Oct 31, 2014)

richart said:



			All I can say is re-arrange these words : off, nose, face, your, cutting, to, spite, your.

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Ok Rich. I want to know how many times you read that back to yourself to make sure you'd got all the words in....:clap:

My take on this is that a lot depends on the quality of the Club you're joining.
A traditional Club that's been around for years - your Sunningdales, West Hill's etc etc will have tradition running through their veins. And if you're looking to join that sort of Club then wearing a suit to an interview/induction/meetandgreet is going to be 2nd nature to you anyway so it would feel strange to you if others baulk at the idea.
At the other end of the spectrum, some newer clubs won't have that tradition so much and are more relaxed. If you're the sort who would be looking to join that type of club then you might be put off if you had to wear a suit...

I very rarely wear a suit, jacket or tie - Hell, the ones I have got might not even fit anymore - and, to be honest, I'm a little in Hawkeye and Alex's camp in that it would put me off a little if I HAD to wear a suit, feeling that if I didn't the club might deem me to be not worthy of crossing their threshold.
If they want to see me, as i am, to determine my worth then why should it be necessary for more than smart/casual - or put another way...Golf Kit...?


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## HawkeyeMS (Oct 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Some clubs do that afterwards 

Again what is so offensive about having a chat in a relaxed environment
		
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Nothing, I just don't get the jacket and tie thing and I think being invited to play 9 holes is a much more appropriate method of joining a golf club. I haven't worn a tie for work for the best part of 10 years which includes several interviews with various clients and I wouldn't wear a tie for a golf club "interview".

If these things aren't actually interviews but informal chats, why dress it up (excuse the pun) as an interview with a shirt and tie?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2014)

So who here would turn down the chance to join somewhere like Berkshire , Sunningdale , Wentworth , Walton Heath , Woburn etc because you would have to wear a shirt ,tie and jacket to have an informal chat 

In fact I'm guessing some would turn down the chance to play Berkshire etc because of the need to wear a jacket and tie for food afterwards ? Or even societies who have a shirt and tie for meal afterwards or club games ?


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## ger147 (Oct 31, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Nothing, I just don't get the jacket and tie thing and I think being invited to play 9 holes is a much more appropriate method of joining a golf club. I haven't worn a tie for work for the best part of 10 years which includes several interviews with various clients and I wouldn't wear a tie for a golf club "interview".

If these things aren't actually interviews but informal chats, why dress it up (excuse the pun) as an interview with a shirt and tie?
		
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That's what seems odd to me i.e. collar tie and jacket or suit and tie is formal but for an informal chat? I thought the idea was to dress appropriately so would informal dress not be more appropriate for an informal chat?


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## HawkeyeMS (Oct 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So who here would turn down the chance to join somewhere like Berkshire , Sunningdale , Wentworth , Walton Heath , Woburn etc because you would have to wear a shirt ,tie and jacket to have an informal chat 

In fact I'm guessing some would turn down the chance to play Berkshire etc because of the need to wear a jacket and tie for food afterwards ? Or even societies who have a shirt and tie for meal afterwards or club games ?
		
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I don't move in those circles Phil and the very notion that you think me wearing a tie will change that is quite laughable. If I could ever afford on of the clubs you mention and was turned down for membership because I didn't wear a tie then I probably wouldn't want to join anyway. I'm not defined by a tie.


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## HawkeyeMS (Oct 31, 2014)

ger147 said:



			That's what seems odd to me i.e. collar tie and jacket or suit and tie is formal but for an informal chat? I thought the idea was to dress appropriately so would informal dress not be more appropriate for an informal chat?
		
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It would :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I don't move in those circles Phil and the very notion that you think me wearing a tie will change that is quite laughable. If I could ever afford on of the clubs you mention and was turned down for membership because I didn't wear a tie then I probably wouldn't want to join anyway. I'm not defined by a tie.
		
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That sort of avoided the question

Those clubs ask that you wear a jacket and tie to a meeting with people - im guessing you wouldn't bother looking to join ( ignoring cost etc etc ) because they ask that?


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## upsidedown (Oct 31, 2014)

AS it happened I turned up for what I thought was just going to be 18 holes by myself having mention to pro whilst phoning in that we were just back from NZ and looking to join club in the area.
Was introduced to the Chairman and played 18 holes with him FOC and that was my interview, indeed he signed up my wife there and then, although I do suspect my handicap might. have had some bearing on this.

Had I been asked to turn up to an interview wearing a suit, carrying a used Times with a red carnation behind my left ear I would have done so. To turn down the offer to play at a course/club  that you've identified as one you would like to join but then couldn't be bothered to " interview " smacks of reverse snobbery to me .


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## Duckster (Oct 31, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Just as an afterthought. A few people have mentioned that clubs need members and that the interview was one reason tha people weren't joining. I find it quite strange that the 2 courses nearest to me that have closed were both "turn up, pay your membership, and play" type courses (Standish Court and Charnock Richard). All the traditional members clubs that require interviews are still running.
		
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Both propriety business run by, in my humble opinion, idiots.  The amount of times I saw John berating the CRGC members who were basically paying his wages and telling them that if they didn't like things then to leave.  Which people did, hence it went bankrupt and shut.



Alex1975 said:



			Is it free to join with no subs, if so I will interview... if I am paying... and I know I would be, then no, I would not interview.
		
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There are a lot of clubs where you have an interview because you are to become a stakeholder in the club (Fairhaven or Sunningdale being prime examples).  These clubs want to know if they deem the person investing, not just paying in and being a customer, will mesh with the other other members.

If you don't want to go for an interview then fair enough but don't then go bleating on about it.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 31, 2014)

richart said:



			...So let's just say you move to  Surrey, where nearly all clubs require an interview
		
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And rightly so old chap - we can't have any old riff-raff in the club - plenty of clubs just over the border that'll suit those blighters what!


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## guest100718 (Oct 31, 2014)

To many clubs stuck in the 1920s. I just want to pay my subs and play golf.


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## Smiffy (Oct 31, 2014)

I'd feel much more confident that the club that interviewed me was still going to be around in a few years time than another club that were quite happy just to take my money "willy nilly"....
It's the older, more established courses that go to the trouble of interviews. 
Natural wastage sees the membership diminish, older members either giving up the game or passing away.
There always seems to be a better atmosphere at the more established clubs.
I've visited plenty of newer clubs where the bar has been empty, people just turn up to play and then pack their clubs in the car and drive home again.
That isn't a "club"....it's a golf course.
There is a difference.


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## richart (Oct 31, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And rightly so old chap - we can't have any old riff-raff in the club - plenty of clubs just over the border that'll suit those blighters what! 

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 I got in in 1981, but assume much stiffer requirements these days.


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## Smiffy (Oct 31, 2014)

richart said:



			I got in in 1981, but assume much stiffer requirements these days.

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The only requirement in 1981 was "must not change hair style"


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## bluewolf (Oct 31, 2014)

Duckster said:



			Both propriety business run by, in my humble opinion, idiots.  The amount of times I saw John berating the CRGC members who were basically paying his wages and telling them that if they didn't like things then to leave.  Which people did, hence it went bankrupt and shut.
		
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No argument from me. I did half a season at CRGC back in about 2003. I cut my losses and moved back to Gathurst sharpish..


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## Duckster (Oct 31, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			No argument from me. I did half a season at CRGC back in about 2003. I cut my losses and moved back to Gathurst sharpish..
		
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I was born and bred 100 yards away from the 7th tee, did several years there.  Could have been a nice club if wasn't for him and his mrs.  Still get to look over the 6th green and 7th tee every week whilst watching Charnock footy.


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## bluewolf (Oct 31, 2014)

Duckster said:



			I was born and bred 100 yards away from the 7th tee, did several years there.  Could have been a nice club if wasn't for him and his mrs.  Still get to look over the 6th green and 7th tee every week whilst watching Charnock footy.
		
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Nice little football pitch there. My lads played on it a few times. Agree it could have been decent, but they did absolutely nothing to improve it once it opened. Shame really.


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## ger147 (Oct 31, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And rightly so old chap - we can't have any old riff-raff in the club - plenty of clubs just over the border that'll suit those blighters what! 

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Many a true word is spoken in jest.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So who here would turn down the chance to join somewhere like Berkshire , Sunningdale , Wentworth , Walton Heath , Woburn etc because you would have to wear a shirt ,tie and jacket to have an informal chat 

In fact I'm guessing some would turn down the chance to play Berkshire etc because of the need to wear a jacket and tie for food afterwards ? Or even societies who have a shirt and tie for meal afterwards or club games ?
		
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Didn't Imurg cover this succinctly? Clubs like you've defined are based heavily on the traditions they have and of course I'd expect to wear collar and ties for these venues. Going to the Berkshire is different and jacket and ties for a meal is in their dress code and nothing to do with dressing to attend an interview to join


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## richy (Nov 1, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Didn't Imurg cover this succinctly? Clubs like you've defined are based heavily on the traditions they have and of course I'd expect to wear collar and ties for these venues. Going to the Berkshire is different and jacket and ties for a meal is in their dress code and nothing to do with dressing to attend an interview to join
		
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I thought Phil was on your ignore list?

The school yard squabbling between you two is pathetic, but I would say it's mainly 70% from you


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## JCW (Nov 1, 2014)

richy said:



			I thought Phil was on your ignore list?

The school yard squabbling between you two is pathetic, but I would say it's mainly 70% from you
		
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Liverpool phil can pick an arguement in an empty room


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## JCW (Nov 1, 2014)

I am a Member at Parkstone GC here in Poole Dorset , Its a great golf course in better condition then every course i have played this year , not played on better greens . When I joined i had an interview with the club manager , then my details were posted on the board and i had my play in with 3 members , something i have done for others since , after all that i had a interview with the capt and Vice capt over coffee as we were all going out to play and we were all in golf gear . simple and there is a Â£2000 plus joining fee and we got a waiting list that`s a year long at the moment which speaks for itself . Anyone on here is welcome to come down and i will signed you in for a game .


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 1, 2014)

richy said:



			I thought Phil was on your ignore list?

The school yard squabbling between you two is pathetic, but I would say it's mainly 70% from you
		
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Wasn't aware I was squabbling but thank you for your opinion. I just thought it was interesting LP listed a number of to end clubs steeped in tradition where I'd fully expect collar and tie and that Imurg had already covered the point. I don't think the reply was incorrect as the collar and tie is Berkshire dress code and not involved with membership requirements. However I do take your point even though in my opinion it was discussion not squabbling


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## guest100718 (Nov 2, 2014)

Joined a new club today, emailed my application last week, rocked up today, payed subs and played golf. Exactly as it should be.


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## bluewolf (Nov 2, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Joined a new club today, emailed my application last week, rocked up today, payed subs and played golf. Exactly as it should be.
		
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No. It's exactly what you want it to be. Others want something different. It's called choice.


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## guest100718 (Nov 2, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			No. It's exactly what you want it to be. Others want something different. It's called choice.
		
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Yeah everyone wants to be recomended, 2nd'd and have 2 interviews in ordr to hand over a grand of their money...


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## User20205 (Nov 2, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Yeah everyone wants to be recomended, 2nd'd and have 2 interviews in ordr to hand over a grand of their money...
		
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Any club worth joining has some kind of vetting  process in place. IMO


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## chrisd (Nov 2, 2014)

My club is a members club and if you want to join you go through the process, as Smiffy did at Cooden. The current members want their representatives to explain the fees  the way the club works, find out about the prospective member and about their golf, the dress code etc. It's fairly informal but, unlike some posts, you are not a customer, you are wanting to join a private club and you need to know the way it works and they want to know what sort of person you are. 

At that point, an applicants name is posted on the notice board and members can, if they wish, put a case for not allowing a person membership. This rarely happens but I've seen it on the very rare occasion and is a valuable safeguard for the good of the members and the club


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## guest100718 (Nov 2, 2014)

therod said:



			Any club worth joining has some kind of vetting  process in place. IMO
		
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Plenty of clubs round here that used to have waiting lists, joining fees, interviews etc. 

Not so many now though,


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 2, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Plenty of clubs round here that used to have waiting lists, joining fees, interviews etc. 

Not so many now though,
		
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Same here. Gone are the days when being a member of a club was seen as a social status thing and the vetting procedure far more formal. Some still do it but many, including members clubs like mine are for more welcoming and think golf should be for everyone


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 2, 2014)

At that point, an applicants name is posted on the notice board and members can, if they wish, put a case for not allowing a person membership. This rarely happens but I've seen it on the very rare occasion and is a valuable safeguard for the good of the members and the club[/QUOTE]

I agree with people having choice and joining the "type" of club they wish to belong to, but, what about the individuals right to defend themselves, publicly displaying reasons to refuse membership is worrying.
As for the point about Sunningdale etc, they can be more about who you are than what you bring to the club.


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## User20205 (Nov 2, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Plenty of clubs round here that used to have waiting lists, joining fees, interviews etc. 

Not so many now though,
		
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It doesn't have to be a formal interview, but I'm all for a quick chat and a playing in round, or 9 holes.

It's not about ability, or lack of, but I would expect a new member to have an idea of the rules and etiquette etc.


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## chrisd (Nov 2, 2014)

pauldj42 said:



			I agree with people having choice and joining the "type" of club they wish to belong to, but, what about the individuals right to defend themselves, publicly displaying reasons to refuse membership is worrying.


.
		
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It's not done publicly. All prospective names of new members are displayed, with the proposer and seconders name on the application form

Should, and I stress it's very rare, that someone objects to an applicant, then it's decided in private in a sympathetic way. No one is humiliated and IMO it's done fairly


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## williamalex1 (Nov 2, 2014)

chrisd said:



			It's not done publicly. All prospective names of new members are displayed, with the proposer and seconders name on the application form

Should, and I stress it's very rare, that someone objects to an applicant, then it's decided in private in a sympathetic way. No one is humiliated and IMO it's done fairly
		
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It's called being blackballed .


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## Break90 (Nov 2, 2014)

chrisd said:



			It's not done publicly. All prospective names of new members are displayed, with the proposer and seconders name on the application form

Should, and I stress it's very rare, that someone objects to an applicant, then it's decided in private in a sympathetic way. No one is humiliated and IMO it's done fairly
		
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This happens at my club as well, names of protective new members are displayed on a noticeboard for 30 days (this is after the interview, but before playing-in round or payment of joining fee and subs).

No issue with it personally, just part of the joining process


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 2, 2014)

If an applicant is unsuccesful are they told why?


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## chrisd (Nov 2, 2014)

pauldj42 said:



			If an applicant is unsuccesful are they told why?
		
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I suppose it would depend of the reason


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 2, 2014)

chrisd said:



			I suppose it would depend of the reason
		
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Clubs could find themselves in a whole world of trouble in these days of political correctness and Freedom of Information.


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## chrisd (Nov 2, 2014)

pauldj42 said:



			Clubs could find themselves in a whole world of trouble in these days of political correctness and Freedom of Information.
		
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I've only been aware of a couple of prospective men members who were blackballed and neither would have wanted to take it further


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 2, 2014)

Totally unaware of Golf Clubs having these joining criteria.


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## chrisd (Nov 2, 2014)

pauldj42 said:



			Totally unaware of Golf Clubs having these joining criteria.
		
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I'm sure a lot of different types of private clubs have to be sure that they're letting in the sort of member that would be right for the club, not just golf clubs.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 2, 2014)

Wondering how our first cross-dressing transvestite applicant would get on in the interview.  I think the main points of discussion would be whether s/he would be a gent or lady member; which changing rooms s/he would use; which comps s/he would enter etc.  hmmm.  Though playing with young juniors might be a bit of an issue.  I wonder what their parents would think...


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## williamalex1 (Nov 2, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Wondering how our first cross-dressing transvestite applicant would get on in the interview.  I think the main points of discussion would be whether s/he would be a gent or lady member; which changing rooms s/he would use; which comps s/he would enter etc.  hmmm.  Though playing with young juniors might be a bit of an issue.  I wonder what their parents would think...
		
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The OP was advised to wear a smart dress, not cross dress .:lol:


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## DanFST (Nov 2, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Joined a new club today, emailed my application last week, rocked up today, payed subs and played golf. Exactly as it should be.
		
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Quoted for truth. Being under 25, I obviously have a different opinion to alot of you, I will not be running round hoops to play golf. 

Half of you make it sound like your joining bloody SHIELD. (Marvel reference)


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## Maninblack4612 (Nov 3, 2014)

DanFST said:



			Quoted for truth. Being under 25, I obviously have a different opinion to alot of you, I will not be running round hoops to play golf. 

Half of you make it sound like your joining bloody SHIELD. (Marvel reference)
		
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Running round hoops is cheating, you're meant to jump through them!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 3, 2014)

DanFST said:



			Quoted for truth. Being under 25, I obviously have a different opinion to alot of you, I will not be running round hoops to play golf. 

Half of you make it sound like your joining bloody SHIELD. (Marvel reference)
		
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Sometimes doing the extra little things bring the reward of playing on a wonderful golf course


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## guest100718 (Nov 3, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sometimes doing the extra little things bring the reward of playing on a wonderful golf course
		
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I have played plenty of lovely courses thanks.


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## DanFST (Nov 3, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sometimes doing the extra little things bring the reward of playing on a wonderful golf course
		
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I get to play wonderful golf courses enough, without having to try and appease someone. I assume you wear a suit and have a month long process to join, so that you can learn to fix pitch marks and replace divots? Members must need a refresh after a few years, because when i've played with members of these posher clubs through work etc, they seems to think course maintenence and etiquette isn't their problem.  However when playing with people from very exclusive clubs, Gleneagles, Sunningdale etc, they have excellent etiquette. Obviously it's not applicable to everyone, but it seems to be something I have noticed.


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## HawkeyeMS (Nov 3, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That sort of avoided the question

Those clubs ask that you wear a jacket and tie to a meeting with people - im guessing you wouldn't bother looking to join ( ignoring cost etc etc ) because they ask that?
		
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I answered it perfectly Phil. I wouldn't be joining those clubs for many reasons which have nothing to do with a jacket and tie.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 3, 2014)

DanFST said:



			I get to play wonderful golf courses enough, without having to try and appease someone. I assume you wear a suit and have a month long process to join, so that you can learn to fix pitch marks and replace divots? Members must need a refresh after a few years, because when i've played with members of these posher clubs through work etc, they seems to think course maintenence and etiquette isn't their problem.  However when playing with people from very exclusive clubs, Gleneagles, Sunningdale etc, they have excellent etiquette. Obviously it's not applicable to everyone, but it seems to be something I have noticed.
		
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I would say - never assume


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## chrisd (Nov 3, 2014)

DanFST said:



			I get to play wonderful golf courses enough, without having to try and appease someone. I assume you wear a suit and have a month long process to join, so that you can learn to fix pitch marks and replace divots? 

.
		
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I think that you've misunderstood the process. The interview/meet/ chat isn't to appease someone and the wearing, if required, of a suit or jacket and tie is usually predetermined so that no one turns up under or overdressed for the meeting and may be made to feel foolish. A lot of clubs have dispensed with the formality of suits etc and the interviews are generally only a chat and all the ones I've conducted were never like a job interview and were balanced so that both parties decide whether membership was right for them

It's different in a club owned by a proprietor, he can decide to take anyone and everyone and it's only to himself he answers to if he gets it wrong, in a member club it's right that a selection process takes place and that the members decide on how it's done and how long it takes. I've been to most member and owned clubs in my locality and they all have a mixture of members but I've always felt welcome no matter which type.


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## Alex1975 (Nov 3, 2014)

DanFST said:



			Quoted for truth. Being under 25, I obviously have a different opinion to alot of you, I will not be running round hoops to play golf. 

Half of you make it sound like your joining bloody SHIELD. (Marvel reference)
		
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Ye I guess I am a little shocked at how many people seem to be so desperate for acceptance on this forum. Maybe they were not cuddled enough as children and now need someone to tell them its ok to join there club.


Chrisd thank you for your explanation regarding owner and member clubs earlier, I do take your point but I would still rather be a member of a club that is for everyone and not that someone deems ok. 

I am interested on what sort of grounds someone would be denied. 

I do feel that everyone has the right to hit a little while ball round and lets be honest, thats all it actually is. Its kinda laughable that you would like to interview me and give me permission. Not sure what those who give permission are so scared of but they surly are scared!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 3, 2014)

Again lots of assumptions and generic statements thrown around the place 

Some clubs don't just want to take money from someone and have them as a customer 

Some clubs want members who are looking to join a club in its whole 

Some clubs want to meet prospective members so they can see what they are looking for in a golf club and can help them with any questions they may have and have a polite informal two way chat to see if the club is suitable for the person and vice versa 

Not everyone wants the same things but thankfully there is a lot of choice 

It's nothing to do with craving for acceptance etc etc 

If people don't want to have a chat whilst wearing a tie then that won't be the golf club for you - but there will be clubs where you can just drop your money in and off you go and play - neither is better or worse just different


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## Tarkus1212 (Nov 3, 2014)

A really interesting thread, as a member of a golf club which still interviews prospective members I guess I'm hardly unbiased but here's my 2p's worth. What our club wants in new members are people who are going to be active members in all aspects of the golf club. The club needs members to support the social events, play in competitions and represent the club in matches. We want members to use the bar and restaurant facilities, not just when they're playing but in the evenings and at weekends as well. The interview process helps make prospective members aware of what is expected of them, just having a cheque book isn't enough. We want members who are going to commit to the club and use it as more than just a golf course. After all our future committee members, Captains, Presidents etc. are all going to come from the ranks of the membership. We don't have a waiting list at the moment but we're not shedding members so it doesn't appear that the interview process is putting many new members off - it's the joining fee that'll do that (and yes, we still have a joining fee!).


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## guest100718 (Nov 3, 2014)

Tarkus1212 said:



			A really interesting thread, as a member of a golf club which still interviews prospective members I guess I'm hardly unbiased but here's my 2p's worth. What our club wants in new members are people who are going to be active members in all aspects of the golf club. The club needs members to support the social events, play in competitions and represent the club in matches. We want members to use the bar and restaurant facilities, not just when they're playing but in the evenings and at weekends as well. The interview process helps make prospective members aware of what is expected of them, just having a cheque book isn't enough. We want members who are going to commit to the club and use it as more than just a golf course. After all our future committee members, Captains, Presidents etc. are all going to come from the ranks of the membership. We don't have a waiting list at the moment but we're not shedding members so it doesn't appear that the interview process is putting many new members off - it's the joining fee that'll do that (and yes, we still have a joining fee!).
		
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The joining fee is probably the most off putting thing there is. Although less and less clubs have them thankfully.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 3, 2014)

You've touched on about four separate forum topics in your one post (which I am in agreement with) that are debated here by traditionalists and 'new agers' - though you missed out dress code and use of technology &#9786;


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 3, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			The joining fee is probably the most off putting thing there is. Although less and less clubs have them thankfully.
		
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No joining fee - all members have to accept subs will almost inevitably be higher than they otherwise would be - but that's for members to decide


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 3, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			You've touched on about four separate forum topics in your one post (which I am in agreement with) that are debated here by traditionalists and '*new agers'* - though you missed out dress code and use of technology &#9786;
		
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I think the common term nowadays is 'young people'.

Although being young in golf is all relative.


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## ger147 (Nov 3, 2014)

Tarkus1212 said:



			A really interesting thread, as a member of a golf club which still interviews prospective members I guess I'm hardly unbiased but here's my 2p's worth. What our club wants in new members are people who are going to be active members in all aspects of the golf club. The club needs members to support the social events, play in competitions and represent the club in matches. We want members to use the bar and restaurant facilities, not just when they're playing but in the evenings and at weekends as well. The interview process helps make prospective members aware of what is expected of them, just having a cheque book isn't enough. We want members who are going to commit to the club and use it as more than just a golf course. After all our future committee members, Captains, Presidents etc. are all going to come from the ranks of the membership. We don't have a waiting list at the moment but we're not shedding members so it doesn't appear that the interview process is putting many new members off - it's the joining fee that'll do that (and yes, we still have a joining fee!).
		
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So what happens at your club if the prospective member being interviewed either can't or won't commit to what is expected of them but still wants to join so they can play golf. Are they refused entry to the club?

Just curious.


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## Tarkus1212 (Nov 3, 2014)

ger147 said:



			So what happens at your club if the prospective member being interviewed either can't or won't commit to what is expected of them but still wants to join so they can play golf. Are they refused entry to the club?

Just curious.
		
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I assume they decide that it isn't the club for them and go elsewhere, otherwise they just nod and agree with everything and then do as they like once they've joined. The interview process is definitely a two-way discussion.


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## chrisd (Nov 3, 2014)

ger147 said:



			So what happens at your club if the prospective member being interviewed either can't or won't commit to what is expected of them but still wants to join so they can play golf. Are they refused entry to the club?

Just curious.
		
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Ultimately they end up paying more for their golf as the social side of the club helps keep the fees down


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## CheltenhamHacker (Nov 3, 2014)

chrisd said:



			Ultimately they end up paying more for their golf as the social side of the club helps keep the fees down
		
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Not necessarily true. That would completely depend on the club, surely.


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## chrisd (Nov 3, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Not necessarily true. That would completely depend on the club, surely.
		
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Yes I guess so, but as far as I know, most private clubs work as ours do. The income required to cover the years costs will be budgeted over the various revenue streams, so, if members leave who supported fund raising social activities and the incoming members don't, then it's likely that something else has to replace that lost money and that could well impact on annual subscriptions


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## C&R (Nov 3, 2014)

Agree 100%


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## Scadge (Nov 3, 2014)

Great thread and I am a member of the interviewing club.  It is an opportunity to find out about the social opportunities, bounce games, dress code on the course and all other things that will help the joinee feel comfortable.

There are standards which then ensure that there is no stuffiness because everyone is equal.  It seems to me that if people are willing to pay a joining fee this in part reflects their desire to be in a club and to commit to membership perhaps for a longer period.  It also provides a chance for the club to explain that the friendly ethos needs to be maintained by even the newest members.

In my mind there is a world of difference between playing golf on various courses and being the member of a club and does it really hurt to ensure that people are clear on the dress code whilst they are finding out if it's right for them ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 3, 2014)

Tarkus1212 said:



			A really interesting thread, as a member of a golf club which still interviews prospective members I guess I'm hardly unbiased but here's my 2p's worth. What our club wants in new members are people who are going to be active members in all aspects of the golf club. The club needs members to support the social events, play in competitions and represent the club in matches. We want members to use the bar and restaurant facilities, not just when they're playing but in the evenings and at weekends as well. The interview process helps make prospective members aware of what is expected of them, just having a cheque book isn't enough. We want members who are going to commit to the club and use it as more than just a golf course. After all our future committee members, Captains, Presidents etc. are all going to come from the ranks of the membership. We don't have a waiting list at the moment but we're not shedding members so it doesn't appear that the interview process is putting many new members off - it's the joining fee that'll do that (and yes, we still have a joining fee!).
		
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Interesting post. Playing devils advocate if I may, what happens then when a prospective member turns up, suitable attired, and has this interview process. They have their responsibilities outlined clearly to them and sit there making all the right noises about how important it is to support the club etc, and they get through and pay their membership fee plus joining fee and are in. Once they join, they rock up with their mates, rarely play the comps, hardly ever have a drink, certainly not in the evenings or use the facilities. What recourse does the club have and surely it comes down to personal preference. I think it would be very hard for a club to then revoke a membership if a new member failed to meet the expectations laid down


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## chrisd (Nov 3, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Interesting post. Playing devils advocate if I may, what happens then when a prospective member turns up, suitable attired, and has this interview process. They have their responsibilities outlined clearly to them and sit there making all the right noises about how important it is to support the club etc, and they get through and pay their membership fee plus joining fee and are in. Once they join, they rock up with their mates, rarely play the comps, hardly ever have a drink, certainly not in the evenings or use the facilities. What recourse does the club have and surely it comes down to personal preference. I think it would be very hard for a club to then revoke a membership if a new member failed to meet the expectations laid down
		
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That happens and nothing can be done, these days most clubs have plenty of membership slots available and the club probably wouldn't have said no even if the member had told them that was how he planned to be.


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## DanFST (Nov 3, 2014)

chrisd said:



			That happens and nothing can be done, these days most clubs have plenty of membership slots available and the club probably wouldn't have said no even if the member had told them that was how he planned to be.
		
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Then whats the point? I'm also playing devils advocate. When I joined my club I played 9 holes with a committee member, much better way of doing it!


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## chrisd (Nov 3, 2014)

DanFST said:



			Then whats the point? I'm also playing devils advocate. When I joined my club I played 9 holes with a committee member, much better way of doing it!
		
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That works fine, in reality it's a 90 minute interview instead of a less meaningful 15 minute one. I once played 18 holes with two prospective Club Secretaries to offer an opinion as to the best IMO for the job


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 4, 2014)

chrisd said:



			That works fine, in reality it's a 90 minute interview instead of a less meaningful 15 minute one. I once played 18 holes with two prospective Club Secretaries to offer an opinion as to the best IMO for the job
		
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...and you have to dress appropriately and as required by the club for that _interview_


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## Coatsy79 (Nov 5, 2014)

Blimey, I'd have been scuppered if there was a suited and booted interview, I don't even own a suit

Would it put me off joining somewhere- Absolutely!! 

When I joined my club I turned up payed my money and went out for 9 holes 

I have no idea who the club captain is, or the secretary or anyone else for that matter, I couldn't care less 

I turn up, play golf and go home afterwards 

I hate so much that golf can be so elitist in this country, it's not that way anywhere else, it's treated as a sport and a pastime 

Have an interview to judge me on my character, not on your nelly


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 6, 2014)

Coatsy79 said:



			Blimey, I'd have been scuppered if there was a suited and booted interview, I don't even own a suit

Would it put me off joining somewhere- Absolutely!! 

When I joined my club I turned up payed my money and went out for 9 holes 

I have no idea who the club captain is, or the secretary or anyone else for that matter, I couldn't care less 

I turn up, play golf and go home afterwards 

I hate so much that golf can be so elitist in this country, it's not that way anywhere else, it's treated as a sport and a pastime 

Have an interview to judge me on my character, not on your nelly
		
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I think you are completely misunderstanding the point of an interview and what that implies (or doesn't imply) about the club.  Methinks you doth protest too much.


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## Alex1975 (Nov 6, 2014)

Coatsy79 said:



			Blimey, I'd have been scuppered if there was a suited and booted interview, I don't even own a suit

Would it put me off joining somewhere- Absolutely!! 

When I joined my club I turned up payed my money and went out for 9 holes 

I have no idea who the club captain is, or the secretary or anyone else for that matter, I couldn't care less 

I turn up, play golf and go home afterwards 

*I hate so much that golf can be so elitist in this country, it's not that way anywhere else, it's treated as a sport and a pastime 

*Have an interview to judge me on my character, not on your nelly
		
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:whoo::whoo::clap::whoo::whoo:


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 6, 2014)

Coatsy79 said:



			Blimey, I'd have been scuppered if there was a suited and booted interview, I don't even own a suit

Would it put me off joining somewhere- Absolutely!! 

When I joined my club I turned up payed my money and went out for 9 holes 

I have no idea who the club captain is, or the secretary or anyone else for that matter, I couldn't care less 

I turn up, play golf and go home afterwards 

I hate so much that golf can be so elitist in this country, it's not that way anywhere else, it's treated as a sport and a pastime 

Have an interview to judge me on my character, not on your nelly
		
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Certainly not elitist at our place and we have an informal chat with prospective members


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 6, 2014)

I think there are clubs that should be perhaps labelled traditionalist rather than elitist and prefer to retain the right to formally interview prospective members. I don't think for the vast majority though golf is any where near as elitist and difficult to break into as perhaps as recently as a decade ago.

It still boils down to how much clubs want to attract new members and are concerned about who they allow to join as well as how prepared prosepctive candidates are to meet whatever criteria the club set as their joining policy.


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## patricks148 (Nov 6, 2014)

if you are joining a traditional members club, that is run by members for members why shouldn't they want to know something about you?

Many of these type of clubs are over 100 years old and have long traditions and  want to be part of that and fully commit to being club members and all that comes with those traditions.

There are a few propriety clubs that have popped up over the years that are just out to be run as a business so you get treated like a customer.

I'm proud to be a member of my club and try and get involved in as many aspects of the club i can, weather it be playing for the club in matches or using my particular skills to help run the club.


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## ger147 (Nov 6, 2014)

An opportunity for an experiment - see what clubs still require an interview, enquire about joining then rock up for the interview in normal clothes and see what happens.


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## TheJezster (Nov 6, 2014)

patricks148 said:



			if you are joining a traditional members club, that is run by members for members why shouldn't they want to know something about you?

Many of these type of clubs are over 100 years old and have long traditions and  want to be part of that and fully commit to being club members and all that comes with those traditions.

There are a few propriety clubs that have popped up over the years that are just out to be run as a business so you get treated like a customer.

I'm proud to be a member of my club and try and get involved in as many aspects of the club i can, weather it be playing for the club in matches *or using my particular skills to help run the club*.
		
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I wondered whether Liam Neeson played golf...


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## Smiffy (Nov 6, 2014)

Coatsy79 said:



			I have no idea who the club captain is, or the secretary or anyone else for that matter, I couldn't care less. I turn up, play golf and go home afterwards
		
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Then you are not a member of a club then.
You just happen to play golf on a particular course.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Certainly not elitist at our place and we have an informal chat with prospective members
		
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As Alex1975 might say :whoo::whoo::clap::whoo::whoo:


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 6, 2014)

Smiffy said:



			Then you are not a member of a club then.
You just happen to play golf on a particular course.
		
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Controversial @Smiffy as we'll agree it's not factually true - but I have to agree as complete non-engagement with your club as poster describes basically means he ain't a participating member of the club.  He's missing out IMO and lessens if not completely minimises his voice on any matter he is happy or unhappy with.  I think the attitude is disappointing myself, but he'll no doubt tell us he pays his money and it's then his business what engagement he has with the club.  Club don't just need members - they need participating members.


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## Alex1975 (Nov 6, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Controversial @Smiffy as we'll agree it's not factually true - but I have to agree as complete non-engagement with your club as poster describes basically means he ain't a participating member of the club.  He's missing out IMO and lessens if not completely minimises his voice on any matter he is happy or unhappy with.  I think the attitude is disappointing myself, but he'll no doubt tell us he pays his money and it's then his business what engagement he has with the club.  Club don't just need members - they need participating members.
		
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To actually take a step back from what seems to be the core point of this thread for a moment: Is there not room for both things? If everyone gets a say does the club actually not just stay exactly the same way as it is forever with paralysis of analysis?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 6, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			To actually take a step back from what seems to be the core point of this thread for a moment: Is there not room for both things? If everyone gets a say does the club actually not just stay exactly the same way as it is forever with paralysis of analysis?
		
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No.  Why should it.  My club is a democratic institution - if the majority of members want something to change, or not change, then that view will hold.  So if some members think that having an introductory interview is bad for the image of the club and/or puts off more potential members than it attracts and so should be done away with - then a motion to do away with interviews would be raised for discussion and voting on by the members at the AGM.  And if the motion is carried then no more interviews.


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## Alex1975 (Nov 6, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			No.  Why should it.  My club is a democratic institution - if the majority of members want something to change, or not change, then that view will hold.  So if some members think that having an introductory interview is bad for the image of the club and/or puts off more potential members than it attracts and so should be done away with - then a motion to do away with interviews would be raised for discussion and voting on by the members at the AGM.  And if the motion is carried then no more interviews.
		
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Ye, perhaps I just don't care enough but I don't have time in my life to be bothered with that. Not relevant in my case as the club is owned but wow, forget spending time trying to make things go my way regarding the venue of hitting of a while ball round a field.


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## Smiffy (Nov 6, 2014)

*Powerbilt Air Force One (Don't laugh) 10.5Fujikura 55g S
Tour Edge Exotics XCG4 4 Wood Fujikura Motore Tour 80g R 
Adams RPM Low Profile 5 Wood ProLaunch Blue 75g R
Taylormade Porsche Design Hybrid 22 Fujikura Rombax 85g R
Titliest AP1 4-PW Nippon NS Pro 105T R 
Callaway X Jaws CC 52 Gap Wedge
Callaway X Jaws MD 58 Sand/Lob Wedge
Taylormade Ghost Spider S*

Not being funny here Coatsy, but you've gone to the time and trouble to list your golf equipment to the enth degree but you don't like the elitist way that golf is looked upon and you can't be arsed to find out who your clubs Captain or Secretary are???
Somethings not right.


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## Alex1975 (Nov 6, 2014)

Smiffy said:



*Powerbilt Air Force One (Don't laugh) 10.5Fujikura 55g S
Tour Edge Exotics XCG4 4 Wood Fujikura Motore Tour 80g R 
Adams RPM Low Profile 5 Wood ProLaunch Blue 75g R
Taylormade Porsche Design Hybrid 22 Fujikura Rombax 85g R
Titliest AP1 4-PW Nippon NS Pro 105T R 
Callaway X Jaws CC 52 Gap Wedge
Callaway X Jaws MD 58 Sand/Lob Wedge
Taylormade Ghost Spider S*

Not being funny here Coatsy, but you've gone to the time and trouble to list your golf equipment to the enth degree but you don't like the elitist way that golf is looked upon and you can't be arsed to find out who your clubs Captain or Secretary are???
Somethings not right.
		
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Its not my place to answer for him but perhaps hes more about the sport/pastime than the social side?!


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## matt611 (Nov 6, 2014)

Agent pies perhaps I've missed the post, but how did the interview go in the end?


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## Smiffy (Nov 6, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			Its not my place to answer for him but perhaps hes more about the sport/pastime than the social side?!
		
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It must be me then.
I just can't understand the reasoning behind being a "member" of a club but not wanting to know who the captain or the secretary are.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 6, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			Ye, perhaps I just don't care enough but I don't have time in my life to be bothered with that. Not relevant in my case as the club is owned but wow, forget spending time trying to make things go my way regarding the venue of hitting of a while ball round a field.
		
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Ah! - that rather explains your viewpoint - I believe engagement in an 'owned' club is not so easy as it is in a 'members club' as you have clearly less influence on what goes.


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 6, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Controversial @Smiffy as we'll agree it's not factually true - but I have to agree as complete non-engagement with your club as poster describes basically means he ain't a participating member of the club.  He's missing out IMO and lessens if not completely minimises his voice on any matter he is happy or unhappy with.  I think the attitude is disappointing myself, but he'll no doubt tell us he pays his money and it's then his business what engagement he has with the club.  *Club don't just need members - they need participating members*.
		
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You could argue they need both. Too many people wanting their say and putting their voice forwards could lead to all sorts of paralysis and long tedious meetings and discussions about getting anything done.  And also in today's society there is probably an increasing amount of people that just mostly want to rock up, play some golf and then get back home in under 5 hours. Too many either way is probably not good for most clubs and it's a balance.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 6, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			You could argue they need both. Too many people wanting their say and putting their voice forwards could lead to all sorts of paralysis and long tedious meetings and discussions about getting anything done.  And also in today's society there is probably an increasing amount of people that just mostly want to rock up, play some golf and then get back home in under 5 hours. Too many either way is probably not good for most clubs and it's a balance.
		
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I don't think having too many members wanting a say is a bad thing - it just needs to be managed properly or as you say - potential chaos and inertia.  And I accept there are those who want to turn up and play and get home in 5hrs.  But I think most of those and who don't otherwise 'participate' in club life could probably make the 2-3hrs time of an evening to go to the AGM.  If that is their one 'participation' in the year it is an important contribution to the life and well-being of the club.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Nov 6, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I don't think having too many members wanting a say is a bad thing - it just needs to be managed properly or as you say - potential chaos and inertia.  And I accept there are those who want to turn up and play and get home in 5hrs.  But I think most of those and who don't otherwise 'participate' in club life could probably make the 2-3hrs time of an evening to go to the AGM.  If that is their one 'participation' in the year it is an important contribution to the life and well-being of the club.
		
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I am slightly of the opinion that less members having their say is better. Too many people think they are experts at everything and that they know best. In most cases, this couldn't be further from the truth. Leave it up to the people who know what they are talking about in my eyes.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 6, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			I am slightly of the opinion that less members having their say is better. Too many people think they are experts at everything and that they know best. In most cases, this couldn't be further from the truth. Leave it up to the people who know what they are talking about in my eyes.
		
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Which is true - but I believe that the greatest possible level of member engagement is crucial.  Maybe not in every decision - that is why we elect committees - but certainly in such as significant changes to the course - or doing away with the introductory interview


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## DanFST (Nov 6, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			He's missing out IMO and lessens if not completely minimises his voice on any matter he is happy or unhappy with.  I think the attitude is disappointing myself.
		
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Obviously we have a differing of opinion. But the fact that a paying member has no voice on what goes on, because he isn't part of a particular clique is ridiculous. 

I'm in the same boat, I play with my old schoolmates on a weekend, then my regular members on wednesday. None of them care about their hierarchy in the club, none of them care what position the person has they are talking too. We are just a friendly bunch that enjoy playing golf. I know who my the "powerful people" are in my club now i've been there a year. But I don't seek them out to socialise with them. Why in your opinion should we have no say? 

We suggested the bar prices be dropped as the pub across the road (which is much nicer) had been refurbished and was much cheaper. We play our round then always have a pint in the clubhouse, Then go over the road and have 10 more. I voiced my concern, and had random people i'd never met came up to me around the club to say they disagreed with me, no one used the pub over the road. And I should've gone through the proper channels and that it wasn't the way the club worked etc.... These members, are exactly the same as me, but they want to feel more important. Thankfully the owner agreed and dropped the prices.


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## Coatsy79 (Nov 6, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Controversial @Smiffy as we'll agree it's not factually true - but I have to agree as complete non-engagement with your club as poster describes basically means he ain't a participating member of the club.  He's missing out IMO and lessens if not completely minimises his voice on any matter he is happy or unhappy with.  I think the attitude is disappointing myself, but he'll no doubt tell us he pays his money and it's then his business what engagement he has with the club.  Club don't just need members - they need participating members.
		
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What do I have to be unhappy about? My course is nice, well kept, I have nothing to complain about

I'd certainly help out if they needed me, I know the owner reasonably well I'm sure he'd ask me if it was needed

But something just grinds me about having to go to an interview in a suit so that someone can take my money off me to be able to play a sport that is my leisure time 




In any other walk of life businesses are competing my for money, I wouldn't expect a formal interview from any other purveyors of leisure activities


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## Coatsy79 (Nov 6, 2014)

Smiffy said:



*Powerbilt Air Force One (Don't laugh) 10.5Fujikura 55g S
Tour Edge Exotics XCG4 4 Wood Fujikura Motore Tour 80g R 
Adams RPM Low Profile 5 Wood ProLaunch Blue 75g R
Taylormade Porsche Design Hybrid 22 Fujikura Rombax 85g R
Titliest AP1 4-PW Nippon NS Pro 105T R 
Callaway X Jaws CC 52 Gap Wedge
Callaway X Jaws MD 58 Sand/Lob Wedge
Taylormade Ghost Spider S*

Not being funny here Coatsy, but you've gone to the time and trouble to list your golf equipment to the enth degree but you don't like the elitist way that golf is looked upon and you can't be arsed to find out who your clubs Captain or Secretary are???
Somethings not right.
		
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It's listed because everyone seems to list their WITB in their signature, sorry if it offends you

I don't know who my captain or secretary are because it doesn't matter to me, I play golf with my friends because it's a fun  thing to do on a hot summers day

I can barely spare the time for a round let alone worrying myself about the ins and outs of a golf club, it's a field to hit a ball around as far as I'm concerned


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 6, 2014)

DanFST said:



			Obviously we have a differing of opinion. But the fact that a paying member has no voice on what goes on, because he isn't part of a particular clique is ridiculous. 

I'm in the same boat, I play with my old schoolmates on a weekend, then my regular members on wednesday. None of them care about their hierarchy in the club, none of them care what position the person has they are talking too. We are just a friendly bunch that enjoy playing golf. I know who my the "powerful people" are in my club now i've been there a year. But I don't seek them out to socialise with them. Why in your opinion should we have no say? 

We suggested the bar prices be dropped as the pub across the road (which is much nicer) had been refurbished and was much cheaper. We play our round then always have a pint in the clubhouse, Then go over the road and have 10 more. I voiced my concern, and had random people i'd never met came up to me around the club to say they disagreed with me, no one used the pub over the road. And I should've gone through the proper channels and that it wasn't the way the club worked etc.... These members, are exactly the same as me, but they want to feel more important. Thankfully the owner agreed and dropped the prices.
		
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Who mentioned cliques and what do they have to do with running the club?  All members are equal and have an equal voice.  Yes in my place there are a couple of what you might call cliques but they have no standing or greater say as a group in the running of the club - none whatsoever.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 6, 2014)

DanFST said:



			Obviously we have a differing of opinion. But the fact that a paying member has no voice on what goes on, because he isn't part of a particular clique is ridiculous. 

I'm in the same boat, I play with my old schoolmates on a weekend, then my regular members on wednesday. None of them care about their hierarchy in the club, none of them care what position the person has they are talking too. We are just a friendly bunch that enjoy playing golf. I know who my the "powerful people" are in my club now i've been there a year. But I don't seek them out to socialise with them. Why in your opinion should we have no say? 

We suggested the bar prices be dropped as the pub across the road (which is much nicer) had been refurbished and was much cheaper. We play our round then always have a pint in the clubhouse, Then go over the road and have 10 more. I voiced my concern, and had random people i'd never met came up to me around the club to say they disagreed with me, no one used the pub over the road. And I should've gone through the proper channels and that it wasn't the way the club worked etc.... These members, are exactly the same as me, but they want to feel more important. Thankfully* the owner agreed* and dropped the prices.
		
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Quite - I guess I am coming to all fo this from the perspective of members clubs.  From what some say about clubs owned by a proprietor I'm rather glad I'm a member of a members club.


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## Smiffy (Nov 6, 2014)

Coatsy79 said:



			It's listed because everyone seems to list their WITB in their signature, sorry if it offends you
		
Click to expand...

Doesn't offend me in the slightest mate


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