# Ball hitting ball on the green



## Garesfield ACE (Jun 7, 2012)

Hi folks

Couple of days ago my pal putted from near edge of green hit it nowhere near the pin it hit my ball (again not near the pin ) resulting in his ball knocking my ball much closer to the pin.He said my ball should be replaced where it was originally and take my putt from there.I wasnt happy with this but went along with it.I do not no the correct ruling on this but LOGICALLY how can I replace my ball back to where it was as I could not no the EXACT spot it had been on?....He had NOT asked me to mark my ball neither.

What is the correct situation on this?

Cheers

Kev


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## Region3 (Jun 7, 2012)

Yes, you replace your ball. No doubt you won't know exactly where it was but you agree between you where you think it was.
If I notice a ball on the way to mine I'm thinking about where it is so I can replace it if necessary.

If his ball was on the green before he struck it he gets a 2 shot penalty too. Off the green no problem.


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## williamalex1 (Jun 7, 2012)

golfboysatty said:



			Hi folks

Couple of days ago my pal putted from near edge of green hit it nowhere near the pin it hit my ball (again not near the pin ) resulting in his ball knocking my ball much closer to the pin.He said my ball should be replaced where it was originally and take my putt from there.I wasnt happy with this but went along with it.I do not no the correct ruling on this but LOGICALLY how can I replace my ball back to where it was as I could not no the EXACT spot it had been on?....He had NOT asked me to mark my ball neither.

What is the correct situation on this?

Cheers

Kev
		
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 your ball has to be put back to as near possible to where it was . his stays where it stops . if he played from off the green there's no penalty


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## Heidi (Jun 7, 2012)

Region3 said:



			Yes, you replace your ball. No doubt you won't know exactly where it was but you agree between you where you think it was.
If I notice a ball on the way to mine I'm thinking about where it is so I can replace it if necessary.

If his ball was on the green before he struck it he gets a 2 shot penalty too. Off the green no problem.
		
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unless you are our lady captain who seemed to think that you would get a 2 stroke penalty for hitting when off the green - arrrgghhhh!!! honestly...some of the people i play with just make up rules...


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## Region3 (Jun 7, 2012)

Heidi said:



			unless you are our lady captain who seemed to think that you would get a 2 stroke penalty for hitting when off the green - arrrgghhhh!!! honestly...some of the people i play with just make up rules...
		
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Next time you play from 150yds and she's already on the green ask her to mark her ball and see what she says :lol:

You could also ask her to tend the flag while she's there.


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## Colin L (Jun 8, 2012)

Region3 said:



			If his ball was on the green before he struck it he gets a 2 shot penalty too. .......
		
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Bear in mind that the 2 stroke penalty is in stroke play only.  In match play there is no penalty. Rule 19-5a refers.


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## bobmac (Jun 8, 2012)

Heidi said:



			unless you are our lady captain who seemed to think that you would get a 2 stroke penalty for hitting when off the green - arrrgghhhh!!! honestly...some of the people i play with just make up rules...
		
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Heidi, ALWAYS carry a rule book in your bag for this exact reason. Hand your lady captain the book and ask her to show you the rule.


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## louise_a (Jun 8, 2012)

This rules puzzles me a little. If you are playing shots to a blind green, one ball may hit another and you wouldn't know.


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## Colin L (Jun 8, 2012)

That's not really a problem, Louise.  As you haven't seen anything you will just carry on and play the balls as you find them, none the wiser.  And as there would have been no penalty involved, it doesn't matter. The ball that was there first would normally be replaced but obviously can't be as you you don't know what happened. If it is knocked into the hole, lucky for the player; if it gets knocked away from a gimme position, tough luck!


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## Region3 (Jun 8, 2012)

Colin L said:



			Bear in mind that the 2 stroke penalty is in stroke play only.  In match play there is no penalty. Rule 19-5a refers.
		
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Yet another rule I didn't know, every day's a school day.
Thank you.


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## CMAC (Jun 8, 2012)

Region3 said:



			Yet another rule I didn't know, every day's a school day.
Thank you.
		
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off 6 handicap thats surprising


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## ScienceBoy (Jun 8, 2012)

DarthVega said:



			off 6 handicap thats surprising
		
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Not really, even Bob, who has been at this game all his long... LONG life says he learns new things all the time. The problem for him is remembering them


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## Region3 (Jun 8, 2012)

DarthVega said:



			off 6 handicap thats surprising
		
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I'd imagine there are quite a few that people (like I did) assume things and get it wrong.

I knew about the 2 shot penalty, but not that there was no penalty in matchplay.
It seems a bit odd that if my opponent leaves his ball at the side of the hole I can hit my putt before he gets a chance to mark it and suffer no penalty if it helps me.


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## bobmac (Jun 8, 2012)

Bing back 'Stymies' I say


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## Colin L (Jun 8, 2012)

Where there are differences between a match play rule and a stroke play rule, it is usually because in matchplay only your opponent(s) in your match are affected by what happened whereas in stroke play everyone else in the field is affected.

So in this instance, if you got a lucky deflection off your opponent's ball into the hole, only he is disadvantaged and he had the possibility of marking and lifting to prevent its happening.  In stroke play, however, that lucky deflection affects all the fellow competitors not in your game who had no chance to prevent it.  Something like that.


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## DCB (Jun 8, 2012)

bobmac said:



			Bing back 'Stymies' I say
		
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Didn't think you were that old bob ;-)


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## SGC001 (Jun 8, 2012)

Region3 said:



			I'd imagine there are quite a few that people (like I did) assume things and get it wrong.

I knew about the 2 shot penalty, but not that there was no penalty in matchplay.
It seems a bit odd that if my opponent leaves his ball at the side of the hole I can hit my putt before he gets a chance to mark it and suffer no penalty if it helps me.
		
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I doubt you could do that. Rule 22 allows you to have a ball lifted or lift a ball if you feel it interferes with your shot or assists another. 

If your opponent wanted to mark it and you just hit it before he had chance to mark it because you thought it was advantageous to do so I suspect you'd be penalised. I'd guess that'd be covered in decisions or general equity rule.


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## duncan mackie (Jun 8, 2012)

SGC001 said:



			I'd guess that'd be covered in decisions or general equity rule.
		
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no need - it's all quite clear under the rule you quoted and if, in matchplay, the player played after the other had stated his intention to mark and lift his ball he would loose the hole under that rule.


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## williamalex1 (Jun 8, 2012)

whats the ruling on this  similar situation. player A ,is on the green 3ft left and 4ft passed the hole, player B is on the front of the green and  is asked if he wants the ball marked, he says no thanks im not that blind !  and putts , but missreads and over hits . his ball is heading towards player A's ball. can player A rush and mark his ball while the other ball is in motion . or can any of the other players or caddies mark the ball


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## pbrown7582 (Jun 8, 2012)

I don't believe  you can mark the ball or tend the flag if declining once a stroke has been made.


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## Heidi (Jun 8, 2012)

bobmac said:



			Heidi, ALWAYS carry a rule book in your bag for this exact reason. Hand your lady captain the book and ask her to show you the rule.
		
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oh i do bobmeister, i do! i caught her out on sunday trying to get a drop - i had the rule book at the ready

also noticed that when she walks up to her ball lying on the fairway, she touches it and moves it to identify it - am waiting for a suitable moment to penalise that one!


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## Colin L (Jun 9, 2012)

williamalex1 said:



			whats the ruling on this  similar situation. player A ,is on the green 3ft left and 4ft passed the hole, player B is on the front of the green and  is asked if he wants the ball marked, he says no thanks im not that blind !  and putts , but missreads and over hits . his ball is heading towards player A's ball. can player A rush and mark his ball while the other ball is in motion . or can any of the other players or caddies mark the ball
		
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No. See Note 2 to Rule 22-2:

_When another ball is in motion, a ball that might influence the movement of the ball in motion must not be lifted._


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## SGC001 (Jun 9, 2012)

Heidi said:



			oh i do bobmeister, i do! i caught her out on sunday trying to get a drop - i had the rule book at the ready

also noticed that when she walks up to her ball lying on the fairway, she touches it and moves it to identify it - am waiting for a suitable moment to penalise that one! 

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What do you mean noticed? (Edit sounds harsh not meant to be - Can you explain what you mean by noticed)

Is she announcing her attention to lift the ball for identification? 

Do you get to see her do this (observe the identification procedure)? 
Is it obvious that it's her ball and she's lifting to identify anyway? 
Is she cleaning it more than neccessary, improving the lie or puting it back in a different spot?

No offence, but what's a suitable moment? 

Would it not be better to bring this rule to her attention before a round and explain it to her if neccessary or ask her to explain that rule to you. That may give the opportunity for her to reflect on her actions and consider how legit they are. Hopefully, that should help to avoid any confrontation, avoid penalties and hopefully help with the integrity of the competition as a whole. It'll be around rule 12 searching for and identifying ball, with rule 20, 21 on lifting, dropping etc and cleaning maybe coming into play.


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## Colin L (Jun 9, 2012)

Absolutely agree with this. The time to mention it is after a round in the clubhouse.  Something along the lines of "I couldn't help noticing that you ....... and you really need to know for the next time  that's against the rules."

All you need for this one, by the way, is in Rule 12-2.

_Edit_
As an afterthought, you don't need to be as blunt as saying it's against the rules - just say that there is a correct procedure for identifying your ball which she might want to check up on before the next time.


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## chrisd (Jun 9, 2012)

Heidi said:



			oh i do bobmeister, i do! i caught her out on sunday trying to get a drop - i had the rule book at the ready

also noticed that when she walks up to her ball lying on the fairway, she touches it and moves it to identify it - am waiting for a suitable moment to penalise that one! 

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I don't agree with the other posters who say to tell her in the clubhouse. It may be a more radical way of bringing it to her attention but why not smack her round the head with your pitching wedge and then show her the rule book afterwards?


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## Garesfield ACE (Jun 9, 2012)

Thanks for all your replies to my initial posting.....certainly has proved helpful and provoked interesting aftermath comments on some of the rules of golf.

Cheers

Kev


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## Colin L (Jun 9, 2012)

chrisd said:



			I don't agree with the other posters who say to tell her in the clubhouse. It may be a more radical way of bringing it to her attention but why not smack her round the head with your pitching wedge and then show her the rule book afterwards?
		
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This comes from the forget the tactful farting around sock it to them straight school of thought.


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## North Mimms (Jun 9, 2012)

Heidi said:



			oh i do bobmeister, i do! i caught her out on sunday trying to get a drop - i had the rule book at the ready

also noticed that when she walks up to her ball lying on the fairway, she touches it and moves it to identify it - am waiting for a suitable moment to penalise that one! 

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If she has decent clear markings on her ball. there is no reason to touch or move the ball on the fairway


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## Heidi (Jun 10, 2012)

SGC001 said:



			What do you mean noticed? (Edit sounds harsh not meant to be - Can you explain what you mean by noticed)

Is she announcing her attention to lift the ball for identification? 

Do you get to see her do this (observe the identification procedure)? 
Is it obvious that it's her ball and she's lifting to identify anyway? 
Is she cleaning it more than neccessary, improving the lie or puting it back in a different spot?

No offence, but what's a suitable moment? 

Would it not be better to bring this rule to her attention before a round and explain it to her if neccessary or ask her to explain that rule to you. That may give the opportunity for her to reflect on her actions and consider how legit they are. Hopefully, that should help to avoid any confrontation, avoid penalties and hopefully help with the integrity of the competition as a whole. It'll be around rule 12 searching for and identifying ball, with rule 20, 21 on lifting, dropping etc and cleaning maybe coming into play.
		
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i noticed it on the 2nd last hole in our matchplay - cos for once our tee shots were in the middle of the fairway and we both walked up together. Her's was obviously the first one we came to - mine was 40 yards further down - she bends down, touches it with her finger, rotated it back slightly and says nothing, just chooses a club and sets up. As it moved back into its original position I didnt say anything. Then after our match finished we played the last few holes and again i noticed she did the same thing when she got to her ball. I've played with her loads and this is the first time i've noticed it - its a very odd thing to do when 
1. it was her ball and it was on the short stuff and nowhere near any rough so no need to touch it!
2. the markings were clearly visible on the top of the ball

I think its some kind of new bad habit she's picked up - and i'll mention it to her quietly at some suitable moment when i next see her!  no need to wrap clubs round her neck just yet!


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## duncan mackie (Jun 10, 2012)

Heidi said:



			I think its some kind of new bad habit she's picked up - and i'll mention it to her quietly at some suitable moment when i next see her!  no need to wrap clubs round her neck just yet!
		
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exactly, and as the incidents you observed were not during strokeplay competition you have no requirement to do or say anything.

however, I would speak to here soonest, not least because you have highlighted it here!

I'm sure you've looked up 12-2, but if she wishes to even touch the ball she is required to advise her FC or opponent first, then mark the ball before proceeding...

it's easy to drop into such habbits, usually triggered by playing a wrong ball!


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## Heidi (Jun 10, 2012)

duncan mackie said:



			exactly, and as the incidents you observed were not during strokeplay competition you have no requirement to do or say anything.

however, I would speak to here soonest, not least because you have highlighted it here!

I'm sure you've looked up 12-2, but if she wishes to even touch the ball she is required to advise her FC or opponent first, then mark the ball before proceeding...

it's easy to drop into such habbits, usually triggered by playing a wrong ball!
		
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indeed dunc - i'll see her on thurs and as she is playing a greensomes comp on saturday then i'll just remind her not to touch her ball til she's on the green - excluding rough! Dont want her collecting penalties from 2 strangers!


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