# Putters that actually sit SQUARE!



## CMAC (Nov 28, 2011)

Practicing - yet again - on my carpet last night (as the wind and rain battered the windows) and noticed as I hold my Scotty Cameron Studio select Newport 2.5 square then release my grip I find the Scotty then sits in what looks like a closed face, so its naturally sitting with a closed face or maybe my view of square when I grip it is actually open.

When I grip in it's 'naturaly resting position' it feels shut so I swing accordingly.

I believe most peoples putting issues are alignment based, incl mine, so what putters out there naturally sit square at address?


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## Jonny (Nov 28, 2011)

DarthVega said:



			Practicing - yet again - on my carpet last night (as the wind and rain battered the windows) and noticed as I hold my Scotty Cameron Studio select Newport 2.5 square then release my grip I find the Scotty then sits in what looks like a closed face, so its naturally sitting with a closed face or maybe my view of square when I grip it is actually open.

When I grip in it's 'naturaly resting position' it feels shut so I swing accordingly.

I believe most peoples putting issues are alignment based, incl mine, so what putters out there naturally sit square at address?
		
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Strange that your cameron sits closed... are you sure that you're just not resting it on the heel and that it's rolling over to a closed position?

I have a newport beach which I cut down to 33.5 inches as it was overly long making it seem closed at address.


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## CMAC (Nov 28, 2011)

possibly jonny, I did get the Scotty 2* flat as I prefer my hands lower and didnt want the toe up in the air so with 2* flatter it would sit with more of the sole on the ground.
wondering now if I need even flatter or just a putter that naturally sits flat and square.


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## Tommo21 (Nov 28, 2011)

You can get face balanced putters..check it out.


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## DaveM (Nov 28, 2011)

Darth were you fitted for your putter (ok I know your views on club fitting! same as mine.)But it is the one club that is worth it. As putting is a feel thing it really does make a differance. Mine is set 1* flat, Shaft 32.5" and bent so hands are just infront of the ball.

Oh a great putting tip. Everyone has a dominant eye. If its the eye that is nearest the hole when you take your set up. Position the ball directly under the eye. If it is the back eye thats dominant position the ball on the bridge of the nose. A little thing but It made a real differance for me.(its my front eye thats dominant).


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## CMAC (Nov 28, 2011)

yes I was 'fitted' but it was more me doing the talking and saying what I wanted as opposed to advice rendered, I said I wanted my hands lower but in hindsight the PGA qualified pro should have advised what was working as opposed to just doing what I thought might be more comfortable in a studio environment without question.


P.S to a mod, why was this thread moved to ask the experts? there's currently other live threads about clubs and grips in the 'Discuss anything' lounge


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## Jonny (Nov 28, 2011)

Just a note but lots of people toe their putter up which can make the thing look closed... but also you can see others having the face very open just to see the loft on the thing.

Maybe that has something to do with it.

Stick something in the cavity square to the face to check the actual alignment of the thing,.


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## Monty_Brown (Nov 28, 2011)

As well as the design of putters, the build finish also varies. I worked in a golf shop for a couple of years and was amazed by the inability of manufacturers to actually fit a putter grip square to the face. We're talking Â£100+ putters with shonky build quality. Not good.

Not suggestng that's the case here Darth, but it's a pet hate of mine so glad to get it off my chest!


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## MashieNiblick (Nov 28, 2011)

I too have a Scotty SS Newport 2.5 and have just tried this on a vinyl floor that has an embossed tile effect. Lined up the face against one of the lines, released my grip and hey presto..... face stayed square!

 However if moved my hands forward a bit the pivot point on the sole changed and the toe opened slightly, which is what I'd expect from a "toe heavy" putter. In fact the same happened with my Odyssey Rossie which is face balanced. Of course the face on that wants to swing open too but only so it faces the sky when the shaft is balanced horizontally. 

No doubt some complex physics, geometry and  mechanics involved but intrigued as to why yours looked shut. Might be worth trying it on a flatter surface and see what happens if you raise lower the toe or move the shaft forward or backwards.


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## CMAC (Nov 28, 2011)

Monty_Brown said:



			As well as the design of putters, the build finish also varies. I worked in a golf shop for a couple of years and was amazed by the inability of manufacturers to actually fit a putter grip square to the face. We're talking Â£100+ putters with shonky build quality. Not good.

Not suggestng that's the case here Darth, but it's a pet hate of mine so glad to get it off my chest!
		
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good call Monty, it could just be that, think its time to go back to the pro that fitted me and fitted the grip.



MashieNiblick said:



			I too have a Scotty SS Newport 2.5 and have just tried this on a vinyl floor that has an embossed tile effect. Lined up the face against one of the lines, released my grip and hey presto..... face stayed square!

 However if moved my hands forward a bit the pivot point on the sole changed and the toe opened slightly, which is what I'd expect from a "toe heavy" putter. In fact the same happened with my Odyssey Rossie which is face balanced. Of course the face on that wants to swing open too but only so it faces the sky when the shaft is balanced horizontally. 

No doubt some complex physics, geometry and  mechanics involved but intrigued as to why yours looked shut. Might be worth trying it on a flatter surface and see what happens if you raise lower the toe or move the shaft forward or backwards.
		
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Thanks Mashie, I'll try it tonight on a hard surface, I'd tried on thin carpet so it was grass like, it def moves closed. rushing home to try it now and will report back


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## sev112 (Nov 28, 2011)

i was under the (probably mistaken ?) understanding that it breaks the rules of golf for a putter to sit square ? Seriously


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## CMAC (Nov 28, 2011)

sev112 said:



			i was under the (probably mistaken ?) understanding that it breaks the rules of golf for a putter to sit square ? Seriously
		
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eh? your having a laugh right?
care to point to the rule?


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## Jonny (Nov 29, 2011)

DarthVega said:



			eh? your having a laugh right?
care to point to the rule?
		
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There's no such stipulation under the rules of golf - Appendix II - Design of Clubs.


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## StrangelyBrown (Nov 29, 2011)

This may be stating the bleedin' obvious, but is the grip on straight?


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## Monty_Brown (Nov 29, 2011)

StrangelyBrown said:



			This may be stating the bleedin' obvious, but is the grip on straight?
		
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In my experience, they're often not. Surprisingly, Odyssey were among the worst culprits for this when I worked in golf retail.


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## USER1999 (Nov 29, 2011)

I have always found that Odessey putters sit closed. The moment I let go of the handle, the head just closes.

I'm guessing that the issue here is that the putter is not sitting flat, so it's a lie angle thing.

There is a web page somewhere that shows 3 designs of putter, viewed from above. One looks closed, one looks square, and one looks open. In fact they are all square, it is just an optical illusion caused by head design. When I can remember where I saw it I'll post it up.


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## CMAC (Nov 29, 2011)

I'm beginning to think its the grip fellas, good shout by Monty Brown and Strangely Brown (not related are you?).

I tried last night and when I squeezed the grip tighter with my left hand the face opened slightly as my palm was squeezing the edge of the flat surface of the grip. Tried a different grip and no movement so I think the grip is off kilter, time to visit the pro that did the fitting before I sell the SC or just lose confidence with it.

@ Murph, that would be good Murph if you could find that weblink, sounds interesting.


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## chris661 (Nov 29, 2011)

DarthVega said:



			Tried a different grip and no movement so I think the grip is off kilter, time to visit the pro that did the fitting before I sell the SC or just lose confidence with it.
		
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Why not regrip it yourself and then you can put it on to whatever angle you want?


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## SocketRocket (Nov 29, 2011)

There are two main types of putter:  Face balanced and Hell/Toe balanced.   If you balance the putter with a finger on the shaft, a face balanced putter will lay level with the face looking up.  A Heel/Toe balanced one the toe will point down on around a 45 deg angle.

Face balanced are for more of a straight and back stroke and toe/heel are for a more rounded stroke.


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## USER1999 (Nov 29, 2011)

http://thesandtrap.com/t/46277/aim-bias-and-putting-geometry

Try reading that.


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## Monty_Brown (Nov 29, 2011)

murphthemog said:



http://thesandtrap.com/t/46277/aim-bias-and-putting-geometry

Try reading that.
		
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"Did you know that 80% of even PGA Tour level golfers can't aim their putters inside the hole on a straight putt from six feet away?"

I can't get the putter back and through in line with the hole either so it cancels out.


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## sev112 (Nov 29, 2011)

Well i did suggest i was probably mistaken in my post 

I was sure there was a rule that prevented putters from being free standing but cant seem to find it in the R&A rules

My mistake


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## USER1999 (Nov 29, 2011)

sev112 said:



			Well i did suggest i was probably mistaken in my post 

I was sure there was a rule that prevented putters from being free standing but cant seem to find it in the R&A rules

My mistake
		
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There are Manufacturers (benross and ping I think) that do a putter that you can leave standing up, walk away, check the alignment, and then come back, tweak it, and then hit it. Naff, but legal.


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## Swinger (Nov 29, 2011)

murphthemog said:



http://thesandtrap.com/t/46277/aim-bias-and-putting-geometry

Try reading that.
		
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Interesting reading Murph, thanks for posting the link. 

Serious custom fitting kit there. USA only by the looks of it though.


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## richart (Nov 29, 2011)

If you have your hands slightly behind the leading edge and release the grip the putter will close. If you have your hands in a forward press the putter will open. Think it is Zak Johnson that has his hands held behind the ball, whilst there are a lot of players with a slight forward press. Can't see a problem as long as you don't let go of the putter at impact.:lol:


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