# 2022 World Cup.



## Slime (Apr 1, 2022)

Should be a doddle of a group for England.
Two big wins and one comfortable win against Ukraine!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Apr 1, 2022)

Sure we'll find a way to cock it up somewhere down the line after the group


----------



## DaveR (Apr 1, 2022)

Slime said:



			Should be a doddle of a group for England.
Two big wins and one comfortable win against Ukraine!
		
Click to expand...

Bit late in the day for April fools jokes


----------



## Tashyboy (Apr 1, 2022)

now we’re talking, it’s own thread. 👍

Maybe even the Scot’s or welsh might be able to join in 😁


----------



## 4LEX (Apr 1, 2022)

DaveR said:



			Bit late in the day for April fools jokes
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. No way will Ukraine beat Wales


----------



## Tashyboy (Apr 1, 2022)

Wonder if Orikoru is gonna do a prediction league thingy 😉


----------



## Beezerk (Apr 2, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Wonder if Orikoru is gonna do a prediction league thingy 😉
		
Click to expand...

I'm just shocked that Twitterpoolphil didn't start the thread 😳😅


----------



## Tashyboy (Apr 2, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			I'm just shocked that Twitterpoolphil didn't start the thread 😳😅
		
Click to expand...

😳😂


----------



## Crazyface (Apr 2, 2022)

England should win the thing, just like they should have won the Euros and the previous World Cup. But we have a rubbish manager, so hey ho, semi final and a complete balls up.


----------



## phillarrow (Apr 2, 2022)

I'm less happy with the draw than others. 

I'm not sure it does teams good to have a very easy group and then a tough game in the last 16. Senegal or Netherlands won't be an easy match and we're unlikely to have needed to hit top form to get out of the group.

I fear an embarrassing exit in the first knockout round. 😬


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Apr 2, 2022)

Southgate seems to be managing England very well.
He is not afraid to introduce new players to the squad.
For the last few England teams he has introduced players that I had never heard of.


----------



## Tashyboy (Apr 2, 2022)

My Concern with the world up is having all those “ fans” in close proximity in one City. Mind if they kick off. Chop the hands off the first one just to send a message. 😉


----------



## chrisd (Apr 2, 2022)

phillarrow said:



			I'm less happy with the draw than others. 

I'm not sure it does teams good to have a very easy group and then a tough game in the last 16. Senegal or Netherlands won't be an easy match and we're unlikely to have needed to hit top form to get out of the group.

I fear an embarrassing exit in the first knockout round. 😬
		
Click to expand...

I absolutely don't agree. I'd rather we warmed up in the early stages and have no doubt about qualifying out of the group, Senegal or the Netherlands aren't better than us and, anyway in the last 16 results can go either way on the day. We also have an advantage of our best players being much fresher and hopefully not carrying too many injuries than they would normally be having when the tournament is played at the end of the season.


----------



## Slime (Apr 2, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			I'm just shocked that Twitterpoolphil didn't start the thread 😳😅
		
Click to expand...

Wow!
He's not even appeared on this thread and someone is having a pop at him.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Apr 2, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			I'm just shocked that Twitterpoolphil didn't start the thread 😳😅
		
Click to expand...

Are you lacking something in life 🙄


----------



## JamesR (Apr 2, 2022)

Well in the 3 tournaments Southgate has managed us he’s managed 4th, 3rd & 2nd.
So hopefully he can carry on the sequence 🤞


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Apr 2, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			My Concern with the world up is having all those “ fans” in close proximity in one City. Mind if they kick off. Chop the hands off the first one just to send a message. 😉
		
Click to expand...

Yes, this World Cup reminds me of the wonderful commercial enterprise opportunity that Manchester dreamed up by inviting non ticket holding Rangers 'fans' to town for a European final.


----------



## sunshine (Apr 2, 2022)

phillarrow said:



			I'm less happy with the draw than others.

I'm not sure it does teams good to have a very easy group and then a tough game in the last 16. Senegal or Netherlands won't be an easy match and we're unlikely to have needed to hit top form to get out of the group.

I fear an embarrassing exit in the first knockout round. 😬
		
Click to expand...

100% disagree with this.

Best option is an easy group so the team can cruise through without too much exertion or injuries. Tournament football is all about managing a lot of games in a short period and peaking at the right time. Fresh players for the knock out rounds is ideal, especially if the opponents have had tough matches.

I hope we win our first two games comfortably, so can rotate players and relax for the final group match against the European team.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Apr 2, 2022)

sunshine said:



			100% disagree with this.

Best option is an easy group so the team can cruise through without too much exertion or injuries. Tournament football is all about managing a lot of games in a short period and peaking at the right time. Fresh players for the knock out rounds is ideal, especially if the opponents have had tough matches.

I hope we win our first two games comfortably, so can rotate players and relax for the final group match against the European team.
		
Click to expand...

I agree. The Dutch lost one and drew two in their group so hardly the team to fear they once was. Senegal may be harder after their African Cup exploits but we should have enough quality to beat either


----------



## sweaty sock (Apr 4, 2022)

If youve got any ambition what so ever then Netherlands and Senegal shouldnt even be on your radar.

Basically 4 warm up matches for the quarter finals... scrape through that and peak for semi finals.  Then see who you get in the final and hope they are less lucky than you...


----------



## spongebob59 (Jul 8, 2022)

🚨 | NEW: Qatar's World Cup stadiums will be alcohol free


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 8, 2022)

spongebob59 said:



			🚨 | NEW: Qatar's World Cup stadiums will be alcohol free
		
Click to expand...

That's alright, I'll be in an English pub I should think.


----------



## BrianM (Oct 27, 2022)

3 weeks to go until it starts 😀


----------



## Beezerk (Oct 27, 2022)

Got the Monday booked off to watch the Iran game in town, also booked the Tuesday off for sore head purposes 🤯


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 27, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Got the Monday booked off to watch the Iran game in town, also booked the Tuesday off for sore head purposes 🤯
		
Click to expand...

As I work in construction I expect them to put a TV up in the office or take us down the pub for that one. If not I'll be sorely disappointed. Then again if I watch it I'm sure I'll be disappointed as well by the end.


----------



## IanM (Oct 27, 2022)

spongebob59 said:



			🚨 | NEW: Qatar's World Cup stadiums will be alcohol free
		
Click to expand...

Irn Bru free as well!  (Sorry,  couldn't resist!)


----------



## stefanovic (Oct 27, 2022)

England will be the favourites!
They always are, even when they have no chance.
The only time they weren't favourites was 1966.
One striker is not enough.
Defence is vulnerable.
No work rate in midfield.
Manager is clueless.
This time they cannot complain the WC is held at the end of a long season, so another excuse will have to be made.


----------



## IanM (Oct 27, 2022)

Yep. But they are there.


----------



## BrianM (Oct 27, 2022)

Anyone think there will be any surprise inclusions in Gareth’s squad?
I’m surprised Chris Smalling hasn’t been considered after doing well for Roma, maybe Tammy Abraham as well…..


----------



## stefanovic (Oct 27, 2022)

Given England's record against the USA we can't expect a walk over.
Lost to them in 1950 WC.
Drew in 2010 WC when Green allowed soft shot to go under his body.
Then there was the hand of God in 1986, Lampard's goal that wasn't in 2010.
Only luck they ever had was in 1966 with the 'goal' that wasn't.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 27, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Anyone think there will be any surprise inclusions in Gareth’s squad?
I’m surprised Chris Smalling hasn’t been considered after doing well for Roma, maybe Tammy Abraham as well…..
		
Click to expand...

I don't know who constitutes a surprise really. Anyone who's not Maguire, Pickford, Shaw etc? If Wilson can actually stay fit there's potential for him to be in, although Toney should be as well. Maddison should really be in it by now as he's been a one man team at Leicester, but Southgate doesn't like him seemingly. Apparently they're allowed squads of 26 players now which is massive. 

If it was down to me...

Pope, Ramsdale, Henderson _(but Pickers will obviously be in it)_
Trippier, Trent, Chilwell, Walker, Stones, Dier, Tomori, Guehi, Gomez/Tarkowski _(but Maguire will obviously be in it. And I'm assuming James is injured)_
Rice, Bellingham, Mount, Phillips, Ward-Prowse
Sterling, Grealish, Foden, Saka, Kane, Toney, Wilson

And two places leftover for whoever is playing best from Maddison / Bowen / Sancho.


----------



## Beezerk (Oct 27, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I don't know who constitutes a surprise really. Anyone who's not Maguire, Pickford, Shaw etc? If Wilson can actually stay fit there's potential for him to be in, although Toney should be as well. Maddison should really be in it by now as he's been a one man team at Leicester, but Southgate doesn't like him seemingly. Apparently they're allowed squads of 26 players now which is massive. 

If it was down to me...

Pope, Ramsdale, Henderson _(but Pickers will obviously be in it)_
Trippier, Trent, Chilwell, Walker, Stones, Dier, Tomori, Guehi, Gomez/Tarkowski _(but Maguire will obviously be in it. And I'm assuming James is injured)_
Rice, Bellingham, Mount, Phillips, Ward-Prowse
Sterling, Grealish, Foden, Saka, Kane, Toney, Wilson

And two places leftover for whoever is playing best from Maddison / Bowen / Sancho.
		
Click to expand...

You’d have Pope after his Wembley howler a few weeks ago? Pickers all day for me and Pope/Hendo as able backups.


----------



## Neilds (Oct 27, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Given England's record against the USA we can't expect a walk over.
Lost to them in 1950 WC.
Drew in 2010 WC when Green allowed soft shot to go under his body.
Then there was the hand of God in 1986, Lampard's goal that wasn't in 2010.
Only luck they ever had was in 1966 with the 'goal' that wasn't.
		
Click to expand...

Hand of God was Argentina and Lampard was against Germany - Not sure where USA come into this.
 And we have different squads form 1950 and 2010 so also not relevant!


----------



## BrianM (Oct 27, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I don't know who constitutes a surprise really. Anyone who's not Maguire, Pickford, Shaw etc? If Wilson can actually stay fit there's potential for him to be in, although Toney should be as well. Maddison should really be in it by now as he's been a one man team at Leicester, but Southgate doesn't like him seemingly. Apparently they're allowed squads of 26 players now which is massive.

If it was down to me...

Pope, Ramsdale, Henderson _(but Pickers will obviously be in it)_
Trippier, Trent, Chilwell, Walker, Stones, Dier, Tomori, Guehi, Gomez/Tarkowski _(but Maguire will obviously be in it. And I'm assuming James is injured)_
Rice, Bellingham, Mount, Phillips, Ward-Prowse
Sterling, Grealish, Foden, Saka, Kane, Toney, Wilson

And two places leftover for whoever is playing best from Maddison / Bowen / Sancho.
		
Click to expand...

Maddison a definite for me, he’s full of confidence and seems to have a bit of everything, he’s got the ability to come on and change a game if things aren’t going to plan.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 27, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Maddison a definite for me, he’s full of confidence and seems to have a bit of everything, he’s got the ability to come on and change a game if things aren’t going to plan.
		
Click to expand...

I have heard reports that he's a bit cocky and arrogant hence it's his attitude that has kept him out rather than ability. Not sure how much truth in it.


----------



## BrianM (Oct 27, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I have heard reports that he's a bit cocky and arrogant hence it's his attitude that has kept him out rather than ability. Not sure how much truth in it.
		
Click to expand...

The best players ‘normally’ have that sort of characteristic qualities 😂😂

Seen an interview on Sky after a Leicester game recently and he came across really well.


----------



## fundy (Oct 27, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Anyone think there will be any surprise inclusions in Gareth’s squad?
I’m surprised Chris Smalling hasn’t been considered after doing well for Roma, maybe Tammy Abraham as well…..
		
Click to expand...


Having watched Napoli v Roma at the weekend Id be shocked if either play a key part. Abraham scored 2 in 11 in Serie A and not scored in 3 Europa games and hasnt scored in 7 i think it is, offered nothing at all before being subbed. He may be in the squad but wont get a kick unless Kane gets injured.

Comms were raving about Smalling until Osimhen turned him inside out before scoring they then changed the tune to he'd be ok in a 5 but not in a 4. For me hes another that lacks a yard of pace at the very top level and not what England need.

As for surprises from Southgate, only if they are forced upon him through injury, he doesnt do surprises by choice. Majority of the squad will be very predictable I expect, albeit he should have some scope in a 26 man squad


----------



## fundy (Oct 27, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I have heard reports that he's a bit cocky and arrogant hence it's his attitude that has kept him out rather than ability. Not sure how much truth in it.
		
Click to expand...


lol that doesnt stop the majority being selected


----------



## Slime (Oct 27, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Given England's record against the USA we can't expect a walk over.
Lost to them in 1950 WC.
Drew in 2010 WC when Green allowed soft shot to go under his body.
Then there was the hand of God in 1986, Lampard's goal that wasn't in 2010.
Only luck they ever had was in 1966 with *the 'goal' that wasn't.*

Click to expand...

Ah, but it was!


----------



## KenL (Oct 27, 2022)

Looking forward to it but not happy it is in Qatar.

No Scotland, so I will be supporting England and Wales.🤞🤞


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 28, 2022)

At least it won’t be long till Southgate is gone


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 28, 2022)

For the first time I can remember I am not feeling the love for this World Cup. Don’t know if it is because I feel we are under performing, wrong manager. The host country, T system / FIFA choosing Doha. But am just not feeling it. Maybe that will change once the tournament starts.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 28, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			For the first time I can remember I am not feeling the love for this World Cup. Don’t know if it is because I feel we are under performing, wrong manager. The host country, T system / FIFA choosing Doha. But am just not feeling it. Maybe that will change once the tournament starts.
		
Click to expand...

I think it is partly because of when it is happening. All focus is on the league, normally the league and all cups are over and everything is clear for the tournament.

I'm sure we will all get into it when it starts but I'm not feeling it yet either.


----------



## Crazyface (Oct 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I don't know who constitutes a surprise really. Anyone who's not Maguire, Pickford, Shaw etc? If Wilson can actually stay fit there's potential for him to be in, although Toney should be as well. Maddison should really be in it by now as he's been a one man team at Leicester, but Southgate doesn't like him seemingly. Apparently they're allowed squads of 26 players now which is massive.

If it was down to me...

Pope, Ramsdale, Henderson _(but Pickers will obviously be in it)_
Trippier, Trent, Chilwell, Walker, Stones, Dier, Tomori, Guehi, Gomez/Tarkowski _(but Maguire will obviously be in it. And I'm assuming James is injured)_
Rice, Bellingham, Mount, Phillips, Ward-Prowse
Sterling, Grealish, Foden, Saka, Kane, Toney, Wilson

And two places leftover for whoever is playing best from Maddison / Bowen / Sancho.
		
Click to expand...

Are we picking from other country's as well now. 😁 Lol


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 28, 2022)

Crazyface said:



			Are we picking from other country's as well now. 😁 Lol
		
Click to expand...

What?


----------



## Fromtherough (Oct 28, 2022)

I’ve booked the afternoon off for the Iran game. We’re having a pre-Christmas lads day/night incorporating the USA game and going round our Welsh mates for the Wales game. So I’m at least looking forward to those games. The tournament as a whole hasn’t really captured me in the way that it normally would though. Suspect because of the timing rather than any other reason.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 28, 2022)

Fromtherough said:



			I’ve booked the afternoon off for the Iran game. We’re having a pre-Christmas lads day/night incorporating the USA game and going round our Welsh mates for the Wales game. So I’m at least looking forward to those games. The tournament as a whole hasn’t really captured me in the way that it normally would though. Suspect because of the timing rather than any other reason.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, the World Cup is supposed to be about beer gardens in the summer. I have a feeling pubs will just be overpacked since everyone will be watching it inside instead. Almost certain to be another rise in Covid in that case as well. The only time I caught Covid was during the Euros in '21 actually.


----------



## Fromtherough (Oct 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, the World Cup is supposed to be about beer gardens in the summer. I have a feeling pubs will just be overpacked since everyone will be watching it inside instead. Almost certain to be another rise in Covid in that case as well. The only time I caught Covid was during the Euros in '21 actually.
		
Click to expand...

One of our locals has erected a huge marquee with a massive tv and are doing table service, perhaps to try and combat this.


----------



## 4LEX (Oct 28, 2022)

We'll get off to a flyer and batter Iran and the US. World Cup fever will take off, throw in Christmas festivities it'll be brilliant!


----------



## stefanovic (Oct 30, 2022)

Back to 1966 and all that.
Proof of no goal 1 minute 56 seconds.


----------



## Slime (Oct 30, 2022)

I thought the final score was 4-2 and not 3-2.
If so, it was a goal.


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 30, 2022)

Slime said:



			I thought the final score was 4-2 and not 3-2.
If so, it was a goal.
		
Click to expand...

You are feeding someone 😉


----------



## Slime (Oct 30, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			You are feeding someone 😉
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, but I'm just a little bit bored at the moment.


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 30, 2022)

Slime said:



			Yeah, but I'm just a little bit bored at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

Still time for it to go to VAR


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 30, 2022)

KenL said:



			Looking forward to it but not happy it is in Qatar.

No Scotland, so I will be supporting England and Wales.🤞🤞
		
Click to expand...

I suppose I must…to feel some involvement…besides…my wife and kids expect me to…


----------



## spongebob59 (Nov 8, 2022)

Sepp Blatter has admitted the decision to award the World Cup to Qatar when he was FIFA president was a "mistake".


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 8, 2022)

We have a customer in Dubai who covers the UAE, Saudi etc. He was saying there are not enough hotels in Qatar and so many fans will be staying in neighbouring countries and they will be running shuttle flights like buses to get fans in for matches . Apparently it is 32°C at the moment but with no humidity. He expects it to be mid 20's by the time the tournament starts.


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 8, 2022)

1pm Monday KO against Iran

I demand a bank holiday!


----------



## HeftyHacker (Nov 8, 2022)

I find it absolutely bonkers that we're less than 2 weeks out from a world Cup, there is still a round of premier league games to go, and the squad hasn't even been picked nevermind out in training camps or acclimatising.


----------



## spongebob59 (Nov 8, 2022)

Over expect and under achieve.
Same as usual.


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 8, 2022)

HeftyHacker said:



			I find it absolutely bonkers that we're less than 2 weeks out from a world Cup, there is still a round of premier league games to go, and the squad hasn't even been picked nevermind out in training camps or acclimatising.
		
Click to expand...

It does seem bizzare but the majority of the players will be match fit and raring to go. Unlike a lot of major tournaments where theres 3-4 weeks of rest, silly friendlies and tournaments start really slowly.

Clubs sides manage to acclimatise to away games in Europe OK with flights. Every side will be based there with virtually zero travel as all the stadiums are close, unlike Brazil or South Africa. Brazil especially had a totally different climate in various host cities with long flights.

Day matches of 25 degrees are fine and late afternoon or evening games when it's 20 are perfect.

For me South Africa was the worst World Cup on record. Qatar will be miles better, despite the issues surrounding it.


----------



## theoneandonly (Nov 8, 2022)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63554507

Blame it on his mate platini 😂🤣


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 9, 2022)

Had the football team sweepstake draw, I pulled out Germany and Spain.
Happy with that 🤣


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 9, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Had the football team sweepstake draw, I pulled out Germany and Spain.
Happy with that 🤣
		
Click to expand...

That's a decent result. Even if you don't win they should keep you interested a good chunk of the way. 

I'm the only one interested in football at work, we have a sweepstake for Bake Off, not the World Cup


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 9, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That's a decent result. Even if you don't win they should keep you interested a good chunk of the way. 

I'm the only one interested in football at work, we have a sweepstake for Bake Off, not the World Cup 

Click to expand...

Dear lord 🤣
I had the misfortune to watch a little bit of it last night, how did that fella get through with his abysmal show stopper creation 😱


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 9, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Dear lord 🤣
I had the misfortune to watch a little bit of it last night, how did that fella get through with his abysmal show stopper creation 😱
		
Click to expand...

Shocker, he should have gone. They sent the wrong guy home yesterday.


----------



## fundy (Nov 9, 2022)

Oi! Bake off spoilers in a World Cup Thread!!!!!!!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			Oi! Bake off spoilers in a World Cup Thread!!!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Ah, but we didn't say who did go. We may have teased but no names were mentioned .

Anyway, at this stage of the competition who goes out is all over the media and social media immediately. Watch it live or lose out


----------



## fundy (Nov 9, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ah, but we didn't say who did go. We may have teased but no names were mentioned .

Anyway, at this stage of the competition who goes out is all over the media and social media immediately. Watch it live or lose out 

Click to expand...


oh well thats ok then lol

easy to avoid knowing by not looking where you would expect to see the news, world cup footie thread not one of them sigh


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			oh well thats ok then lol

easy to avoid knowing by not looking where you would expect to see the news, world cup footie thread not one of them sigh
		
Click to expand...

Can you not see the link between Bake Off and The World Cup  . It's a fair point. I think we skirted but just about got away with it. I'm going to the Newcastle v Palace cup game tonight, recording the Woodwork final. If I can get away with not seeing the result that would be nice but I fully expect to see it at some point tomorrow. I think you have to accept that at this stage of tv shows.


----------



## fundy (Nov 9, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can you not see the link between Bake Off and The World Cup . It's a fair point. I think we skirted but just about got away with it. I'm going to the Newcastle v Palace cup game tonight, recording the Woodwork final. If I can get away with not seeing the result that would be nice but I fully expect to see it at some point tomorrow. I think you have to accept that at this stage of tv shows.
		
Click to expand...


If youre on this forum youll be seeing that result


----------



## Whereditgo (Nov 10, 2022)

Is the Scottish Premiership taking a break during the world cup? (this is a legitimate work related question!)


----------



## fundy (Nov 10, 2022)

Whereditgo said:



			Is the Scottish Premiership taking a break during the world cup? (this is a legitimate work related question!)
		
Click to expand...

https://spfl.co.uk/league/premiership/fixtures

Break from Nov 12th to Dec 15th


----------



## GG26 (Nov 10, 2022)

Pleased for Maddison that he’s made the England squad.  Hopefully, he’ll get the opportunity to play at some point as he offers something different.


----------



## BrianM (Nov 10, 2022)

GG26 said:



			Pleased for Maddison that he’s made the England squad.  Hopefully, he’ll get the opportunity to play at some point as he offers something different.
		
Click to expand...

Maddison a quality player, I’m not expecting game time for him though unless you’re cruising in a game.
Southgate sets up too defensively in my opinion and this will limit his chances sadly.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 11, 2022)

I reckon this could be Foden’s tournament 😬


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 11, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			I reckon this could be Foden’s tournament 😬
		
Click to expand...

If used properly. He has the ability, let's hope he gets to show it.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 11, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If used properly. He has the ability, let's hope he gets to show it.
		
Click to expand...

Think I said the same thing before the Euros.
Southgate won’t set the team up right to get the best out of him & Bellingham tho imo.
I’m not a Southgate fan,but his tactics aren’t bad for tournament football.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 11, 2022)

Having looked at a few squads that have been announced it seems that one or two teams are taking players that have not kicked a  ball in a while. 😳
 Chuck in the fact that De Gea, Kepa, Thiago Silva and Sergio Ramos are not going 😳😁


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 15, 2022)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62667997

Top 10 controversial incidents at the world cup. Maradona and Suarez in there twice. Says it all. Lineker saying ” Suarez never cheated when he deliberately hand balled in the last minute v Ghana” 😳 apologies LT 😳😉
Qatar could fill the top ten after this World Cup.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 15, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62667997

Top 10 controversial incidents at the world cup. Maradona and Suarez in there twice. Says it all. *Lineker saying “Maradona never cheated with the hand of god goal”*. 😳
Qatar could fill the top ten after this World Cup.
		
Click to expand...

What was it then? Strange comment.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What was it then? Strange comment.
		
Click to expand...

My bad Ave just gone through the BBC post again to read it, Linekar said “he never cheated” after the Suarez incident when he deliberately handled the ball against Ghana In the last minute.
post amended


----------



## fundy (Nov 15, 2022)

Dont forget hes a pundit who like to use the phrase "earned" when talkin about diving for a penalty......................


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			Dont forget hes a pundit who like to use the phrase "earned" when talkin about diving for a penalty......................
		
Click to expand...

He isn't really a pundit to be fair. He is a presenter, and he asks the pundits the questions.

It depends how people define cheating I guess, in a football context. He knowingly broke the rule, yes, so he cheated in that sense (although at some point in time, I bet the ever changing handball rules might consider that NOT a handball  ). But, I'm sure he also did it knowing there was a high chance he would get found out. In another context, it was no different to intentionally fouling a player to stop a dangerous attack. Some call that cheating, fair enough. Others call it a professional foul. You do something for the benefit of your team, knowing that you will face the consequences under the laws of the game. 

Not that I have any desire to defend Suarez. But, if an English player did exactly the same thing, the penalty was missed and England miraculously went on to win the World Cup, I'd imagine there would be many English people labelling that English player as a hero. I doubt the headlines would be about England cheating their way to success (in the English press), and the player facing abuse from English fans up and down the country the following season?


----------



## IanM (Nov 15, 2022)

A useful World Cup. 

We knew FIFA were corrupt.   Now we know exactly how corrupt.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 15, 2022)

IanM said:



			A useful World Cup.

We knew FIFA were corrupt.   Now we know exactly how corrupt.
		
Click to expand...

I found it more than mildly amusing the other day when Sepp Blatter blamed Platini for the World Cup going to Qatar.


----------



## Crazyface (Nov 15, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			What?
		
Click to expand...

sorry, just my sense of humor.....the names.......sorry, well I made me laugh.


----------



## Crazyface (Nov 15, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Think I said the same thing before the Euros.
Southgate won’t set the team up right to get the best out of him & Bellingham tho imo.
I’m not a Southgate fan,but his tactics aren’t bad for tournament football.
		
Click to expand...

Until we get to the sharp end of it....then he's clueless.


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 15, 2022)

Crazyface said:



			Until we get to the sharp end of it....then he's clueless.
		
Click to expand...

Black Adder Goes Forth springs to mind.
We'll try this and then the same next time and the time after as it will be the one thing the opposition won't be expecting us to do 🤣


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 16, 2022)

https://news.sky.com/video/qatar-officials-interrupt-live-danish-news-broadcast-12748907

not the best of starts


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 16, 2022)

I’ll be glad when the WC is over.
Absolute farce.
The stadium built from shipping containers is impressive tho.


----------



## fundy (Nov 16, 2022)

So thats why southgate didnt pick Toney for the WC then...................


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 16, 2022)

fundy said:



			So thats why southgate didnt pick Toney for the WC then...................
		
Click to expand...

Hope he lost money not scoring a hat trick at the weekend 😉


----------



## fundy (Nov 16, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Hope he lost money not scoring a hat trick at the weekend 😉
		
Click to expand...


The brace was plenty 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 16, 2022)

fundy said:



			The brace was plenty 🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

🤔😳☹️😂


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 16, 2022)

fundy said:



			So thats why southgate didnt pick Toney for the WC then...................
		
Click to expand...

Saved an embarrassing press conference and flight back........


----------



## Blue in Munich (Nov 16, 2022)

With apologies to some of our Scottish friends… 😉


----------



## BrianM (Nov 16, 2022)

Who does everyone fancy to win?
I’m struggling to see past Brazil 😀


----------



## Blue in Munich (Nov 16, 2022)

BrianM said:



			The best players ‘normally’ have that sort of characteristic qualities 😂😂

Seen an interview on Sky after a Leicester game recently and he came across really well.
		
Click to expand...

Having them is fine, it’s taking them the other side of the whitewash that becomes a problem.

A former colleague used to play with Mark Hughes; said he wouldn’t say boo to a goose off the pitch but stepping onto the pitch something changed.


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 16, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Who does everyone fancy to win?
I’m struggling to see past Brazil 😀
		
Click to expand...

They always come as favourites but then never show up. Hope they dazzle with some cracking play this year.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 16, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592822486722568193


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 16, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			I’ll be glad when the WC is over.
Absolute farce.
The stadium built from *shipping containers *is impressive tho.
		
Click to expand...

Almost as impressive as Southgate having a container ship in defence


----------



## Ian_George (Nov 16, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Almost as impressive as Southgate having a container ship in defence 

Click to expand...

Isn't it traditionally a bus?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 16, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Who does everyone fancy to win?
I’m struggling to see past Brazil 😀
		
Click to expand...

Well I’ve backed Neymar for golden boot.
Brazil too short price to back for me.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 16, 2022)

fundy said:



			So thats why southgate didnt pick Toney for the WC then...................
		
Click to expand...

I can’t believe the hypocrisy from the PL and  FA with regards to gambling.

At least 7 PL Teams shirts are sponsored by gambling firms, more have “Official Betting Partners“, every football programme is sponsored by a bookmaker and football is generally saturated with gambling firms/sponsorship.

The authorities have a duty of care to protect these players.


----------



## fundy (Nov 16, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I can’t believe the hypocrisy from the PL and  FA with regards to gambling.

At least 7 PL Teams shirts are sponsored by gambling firms, more have “Official Betting Partners“, every football programme is sponsored by a bookmaker and football is generally saturated with gambling firms/sponsorship.

The authorities have a duty of care to protect these players.
		
Click to expand...


thats before you look at the Crypto links and the like of the Sorare fan schemes and NFTs
same double standards, different day...........


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 17, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			They always come as favourites but then never show up. Hope they dazzle with some cracking play this year.
		
Click to expand...

Brazilian football died in 1982.

The loss to Italy caused a rethink about how Brazil approached football....they won a turgid final on pens against Italy in 1990  1994...were crucified by France in the final in 1998, then sailed through a weak group in 2002 before scraping their way to the final to beat an equally unimpressive Germany.

Since then....nada...QF's in 2006, 2010, utter humiliation in the 2014 SF against Germany, QF in 2018.

Brazilian football needs to rediscover its soul.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 17, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Brazilian football died in 1982.

The loss to Italy caused a rethink about how Brazil approached football....they won a turgid final on pens against Italy in 1990...were crucified by France in the final in 1998, sailed through a weak group in 2002 before scraping their way to the final to beat an equally unimpressive Germany.

Since then....nada...QF's in 2006, 2010, utter humiliation in the 2014 SF against Germany, QF in 2018.

Brazilian football needs to rediscover its soul.
		
Click to expand...

Think the beat Italy in USA 94? The first World Cup I was old enough to appreciate and get into. 

The final was awful tho


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 17, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Brazilian football died in 1982.

The loss to Italy caused a rethink about how Brazil approached football....they won a turgid final on pens against Italy in 1990...were crucified by France in the final in 1998, sailed through a weak group in 2002 before scraping their way to the final to beat an equally unimpressive Germany.

Since then....nada...QF's in 2006, 2010, utter humiliation in the 2014 SF against Germany, QF in 2018.

Brazilian football needs to rediscover its soul.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63568753

That is a very good read. 👍


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 17, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Who does everyone fancy to win?
I’m struggling to see past Brazil 😀
		
Click to expand...

I've been talking up France but I forgot they're missing Kante and Pogba. Maybe a bit light in midfield. Still got the firepower of Mbappe and Benzema though, and a solid set of defenders.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Nov 17, 2022)

And for balance… 😉


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 17, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Think the beat Italy in USA 94? The first World Cup I was old enough to appreciate and get into.

The final was awful tho
		
Click to expand...

sorry yes...my date was wrong....should have said 1994


----------



## theoneandonly (Nov 18, 2022)

No beer sales in the ground, what a fun world cup this is turning out to be 😂


----------



## Neilds (Nov 18, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			No beer sales in the ground, what a fun world cup this is turning out to be 😂
		
Click to expand...

It wasn't real beer anyway - it was only Bud!


----------



## larmen (Nov 18, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			No beer sales in the ground, what a fun world cup this is turning out to be 😂
		
Click to expand...

was that part of the bid, or did they just snug it in last minute? Budweiser might not be pleased if they got surprised by this.

Just looked at google maps, Italy is only 4000 km away. Maybe move it there, get the italians involved as well, they miss out otherwise ;-)


----------



## GB72 (Nov 18, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			No beer sales in the ground, what a fun world cup this is turning out to be 😂
		
Click to expand...

That would have cost them a fair chunk of cash to buy inBev out of those contracts (not that money means much to them).


----------



## GB72 (Nov 18, 2022)

larmen said:



			was that part of the bid, or did they just snug it in last minute? Budweiser might not be pleased if they got surprised by this.

Just looked at google maps, Italy is only 4000 km away. Maybe move it there, get the italians involved as well, they miss out otherwise ;-)
		
Click to expand...

Snuck in at the last minute, was all agreed then there was a change of heart last nght having already asked that the beer stands around the stadium be more discreet and be tucked away.


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 18, 2022)

Apparently this is doing the rounds on Twitter 👀


----------



## Imurg (Nov 18, 2022)

This is going to be the best World Cup...Ever!!!


----------



## larmen (Nov 18, 2022)

Imurg said:



			This is going to be the best World Cup...Ever!!!

Click to expand...

Is there going to be an alternative LIV world cup in 2026?


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 18, 2022)

Having popped into Doha for an afternoon. I was not impressed. This is Qatars chance to sell itself to the world. It’s not doing a very good job.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 18, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Having popped into Doha for an afternoon. I was not impressed. This is Qatars chance to sell itself to the world. It’s not doing a very good job.
		
Click to expand...

Have you posted this from a prison cell?


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 18, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Have you posted this from a prison cell?
		
Click to expand...

No I did actually pop in. Caught a flight from Singapore to UK. Connecting flight in Doha. However the Qatar flight missed its connection so we spent half a shocking day in Doha.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 18, 2022)

larmen said:



			Is there going to be an alternative LIV world cup in 2026?
		
Click to expand...

Maybe that’s what needs to happen.
FIFA is to corrupt. They need a lesson


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 18, 2022)

larmen said:



			was that part of the bid, or did they just snug it in last minute? Budweiser might not be pleased if they got surprised by this.

Just looked at google maps, Italy is only 4000 km away. Maybe move it there, get the italians involved as well, they miss out otherwise ;-)
		
Click to expand...

It appears you can buy beer at the stadium 

Just have to buy a 19k ticket 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593561460948492289


----------



## Green Bay Hacker (Nov 18, 2022)

Euros in 2016 only had 0.5% alcohol in stadiums, which may as well have been no alcohol. Difference then was that there were plenty of alternatives away from the grounds to get your fill.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 18, 2022)

It’s Not a total ban though is it. Apparently if you are corporate you can drink alcohol. 🤔😳


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 18, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			It’s Not a total ban though is it. Apparently if you are corporate you can drink alcohol. 🤔😳
		
Click to expand...

Is anyone really suprized by this.
I am not .
It’s so corrupt it’s a joke.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 18, 2022)

In years to come we'll all be reminiscing about the teetotal homophobic world cup. What a time to be alive.


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 18, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			In years to come we'll all be reminiscing about the teetotal homophobic world cup. What a time to be alive.
		
Click to expand...

I’ll be thinking about it on Monday when I’m mortal drunk in town after the game 🤣


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 18, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			I’ll be thinking about it on Monday when I’m mortal drunk in town after the game 🤣
		
Click to expand...

I'll be watching it either in the office or the nearest pub to the office. Can't really get tanked up since I'll be back at work afterwards though.


----------



## GreiginFife (Nov 19, 2022)

Infantino’s statement, trying to justify the award of the WC to Qatar, is probably the most tone-deaf mash up of words of the year. 

He probably doesn’t want to go on public record stating that “today, I feel a migrant worker”… 

Not sure what the migrant worker thought of it.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 19, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			Infantino’s statement, trying to justify the award of the WC to Qatar, is probably the most tone-deaf mash up of words of the year.

He probably doesn’t want to go on public record stating that “today, I feel a migrant worker”…

Not sure what the migrant worker thought of it.
		
Click to expand...

There’s a video clip on Sky which I have struggled to load, he has seriously lost the plot. At the end of the clip a sky sports reporter gives her thoughts. It is very very good indeed.


----------



## 3offTheTee (Nov 19, 2022)

Cannot believe with 1 day to go there seems so little interest. I have not spoken with anyone who seems to be really excited about the WC.

It would  be interesting if there was a poll as I have not seen ant flags on cars yet.


----------



## Red devil (Nov 19, 2022)

spongebob59 said:



			Sepp Blatter has admitted the decision to award the World Cup to Qatar when he was FIFA president was a "mistake".
		
Click to expand...

But he's still keeping the money


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 19, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Cannot believe with 1 day to go there seems so little interest. I have not spoken with anyone who seems to be really excited about the WC.

It would  be interesting if there was a poll as I have not seen ant flags on cars yet.
		
Click to expand...

I mentioned to MissisT yesterday, I have seen one flag outside a house.


----------



## fundy (Nov 19, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I mentioned to MissisT yesterday, I have seen one flag outside a house.
		
Click to expand...


When did you put it up Tashy


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 19, 2022)

fundy said:



			When did you put it up Tashy 

Click to expand...

Pmsl. 😂😂😂👍


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 19, 2022)

Imagine how gutted people are going to be if they can’t keep posting about drunk England fans 😂😂


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 19, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			Infantino’s statement, trying to justify the award of the WC to Qatar, is probably the most tone-deaf mash up of words of the year.

He probably doesn’t want to go on public record stating that “today, I feel a migrant worker”…

Not sure what the migrant worker thought of it.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, he can relate to persecution of minorities, he understands racism, homophobia, etc. Because he was a ginger kid with freckles. He has suffered just as much as anyone else...


----------



## Blue in Munich (Nov 19, 2022)

larmen said:



			Is there going to be an alternative LIV world cup in 2026?
		
Click to expand...

What do you think; 60 minutes instead of 90, players having to wear long trousers and it’s an individual rather than a team game?

#growingthegame


----------



## Blue in Munich (Nov 19, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Apparently this is doing the rounds on Twitter 👀

View attachment 45239

Click to expand...

In fairness to FIFA (and it pains me to type that), how is it their fault if the content of that tweet is correct. The blame for that lays elsewhere.


----------



## fundy (Nov 19, 2022)




----------



## larmen (Nov 19, 2022)

fundy said:



View attachment 45253

Click to expand...

Qualified and injured, or just not there? Asking for our Norwegian friend in Manchester.


----------



## fundy (Nov 19, 2022)

larmen said:



			Qualified and injured, or just not there? Asking for our Norwegian friend in Manchester.
		
Click to expand...


the former, and think you missed the point


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 19, 2022)

fundy said:



View attachment 45253

Click to expand...

Maguire would certainly struggle to get into that line up 🤣


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 19, 2022)

fundy said:



View attachment 45253

Click to expand...

Looks like benzema is on the bench


----------



## Slime (Nov 19, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Looks like benzema is on the bench
		
Click to expand...

Nope, he's on a plane home!
Thigh injury, poor bugger.


----------



## sunshine (Nov 20, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Snuck in at the last minute, was all agreed then there was a change of heart last nght having already asked that the beer stands around the stadium be more discreet and be tucked away.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t think this was a last minute change of heart. Pretty sure this was always the plan, they just left the announcement until the last minute because they knew it would be so controversial.


----------



## theoneandonly (Nov 20, 2022)

sunshine said:



			I don’t think this was a last minute change of heart. Pretty sure this was always the plan, they just left the announcement until the last minute because they knew it would be so controversial.
		
Click to expand...

Possibly not the most controversial part of this edition of the WC.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 20, 2022)

Just watching a non  football broadcast on behalf of the BBC ,led by Gary Lineker and Co, on MOTD Qatar v Ecuador?
Perhaps they should stick to the football. There are other TV outlets for the other stuff.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 20, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Just watching a non  football broadcast on behalf of the BBC ,led by Gary Lineker and Co, on MOTD Qatar v Ecuador?
Perhaps they should stick to the football. There are other TV outlets for the other stuff.
		
Click to expand...

Damned if they do, damned if they don't


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 20, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Just watching a non  football broadcast on behalf of the BBC ,led by Gary Lineker and Co, on MOTD Qatar v Ecuador?
Perhaps they should stick to the football. There are other TV outlets for the other stuff.
		
Click to expand...

They should speak up - but they should have all spoken up years ago about it. Ignoring it allows the sportswashing to continue

Come on Ecuador- smash them


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 20, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They should speak up - but they should have all spoken up years ago about it. Ignoring it allows the sportswashing to continue
		
Click to expand...

They did. As soon as Qatar won the bid, people have been speaking up negatively about it


----------



## Piece (Nov 20, 2022)

BBC iPlayer is showing the game in UHD for those interested


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 20, 2022)

Well looks like the oil money is being used to help VAR 😂😂

Why the heck have they disallowed that - I’m just amazed they didn’t award a goal for Qatar


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 20, 2022)

Anyone any the wiser why that goal was disallowed? Have VAR been bribed?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 20, 2022)

Offside?  What?  From the off…a varce.


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 20, 2022)

Var Controversy 1 World cup 0


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 20, 2022)

Dodgy Keeper!!!!

A pound says that VAR gives Qatar a penalty.


----------



## Piece (Nov 20, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Anyone any the wiser why that goal was disallowed? Have VAR been bribed?
		
Click to expand...

It took a bit of time to remove the electrodes from the VAR team


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 20, 2022)

Did anyone see that VAR graphic, and then Dublin basically saying fair enough? The graphic was frozen when player headed ball, not when ball passed to him. What on earth?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 20, 2022)

Surprised the ref didn’t book the player for diving


----------



## Piece (Nov 20, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Did anyone see that VAR graphic, and then Dublin basically saying fair enough? The graphic was frozen when player headed ball, not when ball passed to him. What on earth?
		
Click to expand...

Was it because the other player headed it on to the offside chap??


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 20, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Did anyone see that VAR graphic, and then Dublin basically saying fair enough? The graphic was frozen when player headed ball, not when ball passed to him. What on earth?
		
Click to expand...

I’ve just been saying the same thing to my lad. Comical.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 20, 2022)

Piece said:



			Was it because the other player headed it on to the offside chap??
		
Click to expand...

No, because VAR did the line on the player who won ball, not the next guy it went to.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 20, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Offside?  What?  From the off…a varce.
		
Click to expand...

Ah…a knee…but…🤔


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 20, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Ah…a knee…
		
Click to expand...

His knee was in an offside position when he won header. He was miles onside when the pass played to him


----------



## Piece (Nov 20, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			No, because VAR did the line on the player who won ball, not the next guy it went to.
		
Click to expand...

Dunno then! Looks like we'll have to wait for Lineker to tell us at HT!


----------



## Piece (Nov 20, 2022)

Ecuador keeper may as well get a deck chair out.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 20, 2022)

That’s what they said was offside 😂😂


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 20, 2022)




----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 20, 2022)

That graphic was given, to show his knee was offside, as he headed the ball.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 20, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			That graphic was given, to show his knee was offside, as he headed the ball.
		
Click to expand...

The player that challenged the keeper wasn't the one that was offside. When that player headed the ball on the 2nd players knee was offside. The ball then went up in the air and after it bounced the 2nd player headed it which made him active and offside. That is assuming that it came of the Ecuador player in the challenge rather than the keeper. If the player challenging the keeper didn't head the ball then it's not offside.


----------



## Imurg (Nov 20, 2022)

Football....same  different part of the world......


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 20, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			The player that challenged the keeper wasn't the one that was offside. When that player headed the ball on the 2nd players knee was offside. The ball then went up in the air and after it bounced the 2nd player headed it which made him active and offside. That is assuming that it came of the Ecuador player in the challenge rather than the keeper. If the player challenging the keeper didn't head the ball then it's not offside.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah. To be fair, when it was shown during play, it was from stadium cam, then they zoomed in on graphic, removing all other players. So, it appeared it was the guy who headed it. Saw it at half time.

Still tho, can imagine that would have been a frustrating one for someone if it happened in final against competitive teams


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 20, 2022)

Assuming the guy with the blue arrow gets a touch then it's the guy with the red arrow that played the ball next and is offside.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 20, 2022)

Piece said:



			Dunno then! Looks like we'll have to wait for Lineker to tell us at HT!
		
Click to expand...

There seems to be a lack of cameras . I’d have thought that several views of this from a number of angles would have been available to TV. Where’s the slow motion analysis etc? Or are they not really examining this fully?
Is the offside reckoned to be from the header by Ecuador player when he and the goalie go up for the ball? Did it come off the goalie or Ecuador player?
Just who is meant to be offside, the Ecuador player who went up with the goalie?
If it is, then it’s barmy. It’s not when he receives it, it’s when the ball is played to where he receives it. I mean, that seems a basic ignorance of the offside rule .
Poor analysis of the incident, IMO.

edit..  now seen Colchies graphic.  That explains it. So much for Linekers team and their non explanation.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 20, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Did anyone see that VAR graphic, and then Dublin basically saying fair enough? The graphic was frozen when player headed ball, not when ball passed to him. What on earth?
		
Click to expand...

As far as I could understand it, they weren't saying anyone was offside from the cross/long ball. That ball went to an area where there was two players and the goalie. One player headed it while the other player was in an offside position, then jogged back to play the ball when it dropped. It did seem rather convoluted though. Pre-VAR days, no linesman on earth would have given it, and no TV analysis would have picked it up either.


----------



## srixon 1 (Nov 20, 2022)

Hasn’t Dublin got some houses to look at. He’s got to be one of the worst pundits/co-commentators there is.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 20, 2022)

srixon 1 said:



			Hasn’t Dublin got some *houses to look at*. He’s got to be one of the worst pundits/co-commentators there is.
		
Click to expand...

Not much cop at that either.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283452774584397824


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 20, 2022)

God this is awful 

It’s like a 1st round in the FA Cup between a lge 2 team and a non league team - Qatar will be dumped out of the cup without even scoring


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 20, 2022)

How are Qatar ranked 50th in the world?


----------



## SaintHacker (Nov 20, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			God this is awful

It’s like a 1st round in the FA Cup between a lge 2 team and a non league team - Qatar will be dumped out of the cup without even scoring
		
Click to expand...

Its not that good Phil...


----------



## Piece (Nov 20, 2022)

Those Qatar fans in red behind the goal. They looked like staged fans to me. Similar age, sex, etc. The other Qatari fans looked to have left the stadium


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 20, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			How are Qatar ranked 50th in the world?
		
Click to expand...

Just look at the games they've played lately. Mostly friendlies against the likes of Bangladesh I think.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 20, 2022)

Piece said:



			Those Qatar fans in red behind the goal. They looked like staged fans to me. Similar age, sex, etc. The other Qatari fans looked to have left the stadium
		
Click to expand...

You mean the ones where 90% of them had Burgundy t-shirts saying "QATAR" instead of replica football shirts? Very suspect, that.


----------



## SteveJay (Nov 20, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			How are Qatar ranked 50th in the world?
		
Click to expand...

 Absolutely.......and they won the Asian Cup, some other Asian countries must be


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 20, 2022)

I was bored so stopped watching.
Seems like a few in the crowd felt the same.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 20, 2022)

SaintHacker said:



			Its not that good Phil...
		
Click to expand...

 🤔

Manager or the players 😀



Piece said:



			Those Qatar fans in red behind the goal. They looked like staged fans to me. Similar age, sex, etc. The other Qatari fans looked to have left the stadium
		
Click to expand...

Rent a crowd - many have come from Saudi Arabia to help fill the stands


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 20, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594391808016089088
I’m guessing the stance isn’t that strong when a threat of a yellow card makes you think about backing down


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 20, 2022)

I know the game was pretty much a non contest, but I think what made it dull was the atmosphere. I could hear a crowd, although it seemed hollow, passionless. As if the microphones had been turned up beside a group of 50 people asked to make a bit of noise. 

I suppose Qatar probably doesn't contain a load of passionate football fans, and maybe Ecuador didn't bring a huge following with them. Hopefully the atmospheres will become much better when some of the big footballing nations play, who might have brought a lot of support with them. Won't hold my breath though.


----------



## fundy (Nov 20, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594391808016089088
I’m guessing the stance isn’t that strong when a threat of a yellow card makes you think about backing down
		
Click to expand...


Kane to be booked and there be a card in the first 10 minute bet builder backers not happy


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 20, 2022)

Piece said:



			Those Qatar fans in red behind the goal. They looked like staged fans to me. Similar age, sex, etc. The other Qatari fans looked to have left the stadium
		
Click to expand...

There all the gay ones on day release.
Cheer the team or stay in prison.


----------



## Fade and Die (Nov 20, 2022)

Piece said:



			Those Qatar fans in red behind the goal. They looked like staged fans to me. Similar age, sex, etc. The other Qatari fans looked to have left the stadium
		
Click to expand...

Surely not!






Don’t even know the tune to “it’s coming home”!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 20, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Surely not!






Don’t even know the tune to “it’s coming home”!
		
Click to expand...

Strange but they seem to be very similar to the Argentinian fans shown recently 🤔


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 20, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594431703099248640
Hopefully England stick to their guns and wear the armband


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 20, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Rent a crowd - many have come from Saudi Arabia to help fill the stands
		
Click to expand...

You know that for sure do you?
I’m all for a bit of doubting Thomas now and again but this thread hasn’t started on the most positive of notes 🤣


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 20, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			You know that for sure do you?
I’m all for a bit of doubting Thomas now and again but this thread hasn’t started on the most positive of notes 🤣
		
Click to expand...

https://amp.nine.com.au/article/24824a69-1ef9-4cd1-be5c-b3dc8e17b9a9


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 20, 2022)

There was an interview with a Welsh guy who lives in Qatar on BBC breakfast (IIRC), said how he had gone to the team hotel to welcome them, but it was fenced off and he couldn’t get very close but within the fenced off area was a “rent a crowd” applauding them in.


----------



## srixon 1 (Nov 20, 2022)

Dion Dublin is trending on Twitter. Some of the comments are hilarious.


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 20, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://amp.nine.com.au/article/24824a69-1ef9-4cd1-be5c-b3dc8e17b9a9

Click to expand...

Just need to wait for all the tanned bearded Polish and Danish fans to appear before passing final judgement!!


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 20, 2022)

I've been pretty upbeat about the World Cup but today was horrible. A load of virtue signalling on the BBC - complaining about everything yet still there picking up their large fees. Dion Dublin being Dion Dublin. To think of the all iconic voices the BBC have had over the years and we're now stuck with that clown 

Terrible atmosphere, bizzare fake supporters and a shocking performance from the hosts. Tomorrow it starts for real though!


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 20, 2022)

4LEX said:



			I've been pretty upbeat about the World Cup but today was horrible. A load of virtue signalling on the BBC - complaining about everything yet still there picking up their large fees. Dion Dublin being Dion Dublin. To think of the all iconic voices the BBC have had over the years and we're now stuck with that clown 

Terrible atmosphere, bizzare fake supporters and a shocking performance from the hosts. Tomorrow it starts for real though! 

Click to expand...

Thought the BBC once again did brilliantly. Continuing to raise the point 

Don't go? Yeah they could do that, but out there constantly mentioning it keeps it in the front of people's minds rather than just forgetting about it and not talking about it on air.

Well played.


----------



## Dando (Nov 21, 2022)

After watching yesterdays game, maguire has competition for the tournaments worst defender


----------



## Smiffy (Nov 21, 2022)

I've set the reminder on the TV guide for later on.
I'll be watching Wales v USA. Much more entertaining.


----------



## Fromtherough (Nov 21, 2022)

If I want to watch ‘indignation’, hypocrisy and political posturing, i’ll watch Question Time. At least there is an audience there to provide a dose of reality and an element of challenge to keep the virtue signalling in check. 

The opening game was never going to be a classic but it was terrible. I lasted until 36 minutes before turning over. Dion Dublin is robbing a living. I’d prefer to listen to 90 mins of him playing the Dube than his attempts at co-commentary. 

However, it’s still the World Cup. I’ve got half a day from work and we’ve got a table booked at the pub. England should make light work of Iran (should…) and I’m sure a 3 or 4 nil win will get me bang into the tournament. Senegal vs Netherlands is a great game on paper to build off an England win. And then we might see Wales win a World Cup game for the first time in a few generations.


----------



## Smiffy (Nov 21, 2022)

Was it ever discovered why that first goal was disallowed????
Didn't see anything wrong with it, other than powderpuff goalkeeping.


----------



## Fromtherough (Nov 21, 2022)

Smiffy said:



			Was it ever discovered why that first goal was disallowed????
Didn't see anything wrong with it, other than powderpuff goalkeeping.
		
Click to expand...

Took them a while to show it. One of those stupid VAR decisions. On this occasion the attackers knee as 2cm ahead of the last defender.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

Smiffy said:



			Was it ever discovered why that first goal was disallowed????
Didn't see anything wrong with it, other than powderpuff goalkeeping.
		
Click to expand...

The guy behind the ones jumping for header had a knee marginally offside I believe.

The difficulty was that, when it happened, everyone was confused as to why it was disallowed. Not even sure if anyone knew it was a foul or offside.

A few mins later, one quick replay was shown to indicate offside, although it wasn't the best angle, and was done quickly. Dion Dublin just said, ohh offside, fair enough, and that was that. There was zero discussion, and no more replays given. So it even left television viewers confused, let alone fans in stadium (if there were any real ones).

Who is in charge of broadcasting images? FIFA? I bet they don't show anything that might be controversial, and I bet they are very selective in who they show in the crowd.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

Just watching GMB, and Richard Madely was getting on his high horse. Questioning why Gary Lineker was in Qatar, and he could just as easily do his job from home, watching TV monitors. A minute later, Richard then passed it over to one of the GMB reporters, in Qatar


----------



## theoneandonly (Nov 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The guy behind the ones jumping for header had a knee marginally offside I believe.

The difficulty was that, when it happened, everyone was confused as to why it was disallowed. Not even sure if anyone knew it was a foul or offside.

A few mins later, one quick replay was shown to indicate offside, although it wasn't the best angle, and was done quickly. Dion Dublin just said, ohh offside, fair enough, and that was that. There was zero discussion, and no more replays given. So it even left television viewers confused, let alone fans in stadium (if there were any real ones).

Who is in charge of broadcasting images? FIFA? I bet they don't show anything that might be controversial, and I bet they are very selective in who they show in the crowd.
		
Click to expand...

That's how it should be for offsides. VAR says offside so fair enough and move on. It's an area where it should be pretty foolproof. The constant wailing about lines etc just gets tedious.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			That's how it should be for offsides. VAR says offside so fair enough and move on. It's an area where it should be pretty foolproof. The constant wailing about lines etc just gets tedious.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, but we didn't know that. The game continued, and nobody knew what VAR ruled it out for. It was only a few minutes later it was clarified, and the brief replay was misleading.


----------



## yandabrown (Nov 21, 2022)

Under what footballing Law can Harry Kane (or others) be booked for wearing a captains armband?


----------



## Smiffy (Nov 21, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			That's how it should be for offsides. VAR says offside so fair enough and move on. It's an area where it should be pretty foolproof. The constant wailing about lines etc just gets tedious.
		
Click to expand...

Less than a inch offside?
Bill Shankley will be rolling in his grave.


----------



## yandabrown (Nov 21, 2022)




----------



## theoneandonly (Nov 21, 2022)

Smiffy said:



			Less than a inch offside?
Bill Shankley will be rolling in his grave.
		
Click to expand...

Your point is what ?


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

yandabrown said:



			Under what footballing Law can Harry Kane (or others) be booked for wearing a captains armband?
		
Click to expand...

*5. Slogans, statements, images and advertising*

Equipment must not have any political, religious or personal slogans, statements or images. Players must not reveal undergarments that show political, religious, personal slogans, statements or images, or advertising other than the manufacturer's logo. For any offence the player and/or the team will be sanctioned by the competition organiser, national football association or by FIFA.

Principles


Law 4 applies to all equipment (including clothing) worn by players, substitutes and substituted players; it's principles also apply to all team officials in the technical area
The following are (usually) permitted:
the player's number, name, team crest/logo, initiative slogans/emblems promoting the game of football, respect and integrity as well as any advertising permitted by competition rules or national FA, confederation or FIFA regulations
the facts of a match: teams, date, competition/event, venue

Permitted slogans, statements or images should be confined to the shirt front and/or armband
In some cases, the slogan, statement or image might only appear on the captain's armband
Interpreting the Law

When interpreting whether a slogan, statement or image is permissible, note should be taken of Law 12 (Fouls and Misconduct), which requires the referee to take action against a player who is guilty of:


using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or action(s)
acting in a provocative, derisory or inflammatory way
Any slogan, statement or image which falls into any of these categories is not permitted.

Whilst 'religious' and 'personal' are relatively easily defined, 'political' is less clear but slogans, statements or images related to the following are not permitted:


any person(s), living or dead (unless part of the official competition name)
any local, regional, national or international political party/organisation/group, etc.
any local, regional or national government or any of its departments, offices or functions
any organisation which is discriminatory
any organisation whose aims/actions are likely to offend a notable number of people
any specific political act/event
When commemorating a significant national or international event, the sensibilities of the opposing team (including its supporters) and the general public should be carefully considered.

Competition rules may contain further restrictions/limitations, particularly in relation to the size, number and position of permitted slogans, statements and images. It is recommended that disputes relating to slogans, statements or images be resolved prior to a match/competition taking place.


----------



## theoneandonly (Nov 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yes, but we didn't know that. The game continued, and nobody knew what VAR ruled it out for. It was only a few minutes later it was clarified, and the brief replay was misleading.
		
Click to expand...

The implementation is bad at times, but we don't need to see the lines , just a confirmation that it was offside will do.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

Football Associations have now jointly come out to ask their captains not to wear the One Love armband. They do not want to put their players under pressure of getting personal sanctions, after talks with FIFA, but would have been willing to pay any fines if that was the only punishment.

Will be interesting to see if any captains come out and wear it anyway.

Been watching the 4-part FIFA documentary on Netflix. FIFA must be one of the most corrupt organisations in the world. It absolutely stinks.


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Football Associations have now jointly come out to ask their captains not to wear the One Love armband. They do not want to put their players under pressure of getting personal sanctions, after talks with FIFA, but would have been willing to pay any fines if that was the only punishment.

Will be interesting to see if any captains come out and wear it anyway.

Been watching the 4-part FIFA documentary on Netflix. FIFA must be one of the most corrupt organisations in the world. It absolutely stinks.
		
Click to expand...

Pathetic is what it is.

But, I’m sure all those that don’t like ‘politics’ interfering with their sport will be happy.


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 21, 2022)

Its coming home


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 21, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Its coming home
		
Click to expand...

I didnt know you were Brazilian?


----------



## larmen (Nov 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Football Associations have now jointly come out to ask their captains not to wear the One Love armband. They do not want to put their players under pressure of getting personal sanctions, after talks with FIFA, but would have been willing to pay any fines if that was the only punishment.

Will be interesting to see if any captains come out and wear it anyway.

Been watching the 4-part FIFA documentary on Netflix. FIFA must be one of the most corrupt organisations in the world. It absolutely stinks.
		
Click to expand...

De Jong and Neuer will also not wear them.


----------



## Smiffy (Nov 21, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			Your point is what ?
		
Click to expand...

Is less than an inch offside worth stopping the game for. It could have been a crease in his shorts or snot hanging out of his nose. Pathetic.


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 21, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			I didnt know you were Brazilian?
		
Click to expand...

You've got to believe we can do it!

Everyone's all over Brazil, lets wait and see shall we. Spain looked good on paper in 2014!


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 21, 2022)

Let Southgate wear the armband for the first match and take the booking. In the second match let the assistant manager/coach (Steve Holland ??) wear it and get the booking. Third match the goalkeeping coach wears it and gets booked. Fourth match the physio wears it and gets booked. And so on for as long as we remain in the tournament. Will highlight the ridiculous rules that FIFA are trying to implement without affecting the teams' chances of success.

Either that, or what I'd really like to see is Kane wear it and get booked. He then passes the armband on to Pickford who I assume would also get booked. Carry on passing it round the team and the substitutes until it gets back to Kane and see if the ref has the balls to book him a second time. Would make a proper statement if we got 5 players sent off before the start of our first game and it had to be abandoned.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2022)

yandabrown said:



			Under what footballing Law can Harry Kane (or others) be booked for wearing a captains armband?
		
Click to expand...

I imagine they would tenuously link it to the laws about non-standard kit, such revealing logos under your shirt and so on. We need the FA to make a stand and back the team on it, but it seems like they won't bother. At the end of the day wearing a particular armband isn't going to do anything anyway.


----------



## Old Skier (Nov 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Football Associations have now jointly come out to ask their captains not to wear the One Love armband. They do not want to put their players under pressure of getting personal sanctions, after talks with FIFA, but would have been willing to pay any fines if that was the only punishment.

Will be interesting to see if any captains come out and wear it anyway.

Been watching the 4-part FIFA documentary on Netflix. FIFA must be one of the most corrupt organisations in the world. It absolutely stinks.
		
Click to expand...

Last time the FA went down this route we had England and all visiting teams doing the Nazi salute and that didn’t end well.

Time for the European nations to grow a pair and walk away from the whole money making farce.


----------



## timd77 (Nov 21, 2022)

The players shouldn’t be in the position where they’re having to risk getting booked at the start of the match and play the rest holding back to avoid a second.

In my view they shouldn’t be there in the first place. The FA of each country should’ve had the balls to withdraw from the competition as soon as it was clear Qatar had been given it. Imagine the statement it would’ve made if the likes of England, Germany, France, Spain etc weren’t at the World Cup through a boycott. Never gonna happen though, money talks.


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 21, 2022)

Been in a bar in Newcastle since 9.30, place is buzzing. Lots of younger fans (early 20s) which is refreshing to see.
Can’t wait 👌


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Let Southgate wear the armband for the first match and take the booking. In the second match let the assistant manager/coach (Steve Holland ??) wear it and get the booking. Third match the goalkeeping coach wears it and gets booked. Fourth match the physio wears it and gets booked. And so on for as long as we remain in the tournament. Will highlight the ridiculous rules that FIFA are trying to implement without affecting the teams' chances of success.

Either that, or what I'd really like to see is Kane wear it and get booked. He then passes the armband on to Pickford who I assume would also get booked. Carry on passing it round the team and the substitutes until it gets back to Kane and see if the ref has the balls to book him a second time. Would make a proper statement if we got 5 players sent off before the start of our first game and it had to be abandoned.
		
Click to expand...

Or, give it to Maguire, he gets booked. Then to TAA, he gets booked. Backed to Maguire, red card. Back to TAA, red card


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 21, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Been in a bar in Newcastle since 9.30, place is buzzing. Lots of younger fans (early 20s) which is refreshing to see.
Can’t wait 👌
		
Click to expand...

9.30 . That's keen. 

Have you been keeping up with the youngsters or have you been more sophisticated and drinking cappuccinos all morning?


----------



## SaintHacker (Nov 21, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			9.30 . That's keen.

Have you been keeping up with the youngsters or have you been more sophisticated and drinking cappuccinos all morning?
		
Click to expand...

The fact that he's still able to post on here probably answers your question


----------



## BrianM (Nov 21, 2022)

In my opinion, let the players concentrate on the football, they shouldn’t have to play political games.


----------



## Imurg (Nov 21, 2022)

BrianM said:



			In my opinion, let the players concentrate on the football, they shouldn’t have to play political games.
		
Click to expand...

Should have been sorted out years ago....players are in a no-win situation.
They're there to try and win a football tournament.


----------



## sunshine (Nov 21, 2022)

Looks like England are going to play 4-2-3-1.

I like the look of that. No need for the 3 centre halves in the group stage, save that for the QF against France.

I'm not expecting to be dazzled by the performance today, but a turgid 1-0 will do for the opening game.


----------



## Old Skier (Nov 21, 2022)

BrianM said:



			In my opinion, let the players concentrate on the football, they shouldn’t have to play political games.
		
Click to expand...

But the players where the ones who wanted to make the statement. Shame the squad and the FA folded.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 21, 2022)

sunshine said:



			Looks like England are going to play 4-2-3-1.

I like the look of that. No need for the 3 centre halves in the group stage, save that for the QF against France.

I'm not expecting to be dazzled by the performance today, but a turgid 1-0 will do for the opening game.
		
Click to expand...

Love the formation, not sure about sterling but he does always step up for England so let's see 

Glad to see saka start

Rice and Bellingham *could* be one of the best


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 21, 2022)

SaintHacker said:



			The fact that he's still able to post on here probably answers your question

Click to expand...

We might get some fun auto correct posts later on


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 21, 2022)

BrianM said:



			In my opinion, let the players concentrate on the football, they shouldn’t have to play political games.
		
Click to expand...

That’s just sportswashing imo

The players have rbe stage to make a difference and they are bottling it


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 21, 2022)

Not convinced by the team (Maguire??!!) but it's the World Cup and I can't help but be excited...

COME ON ENGLAND


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s just sportswashing imo

The players have rbe stage to make a difference and they are bottling it
		
Click to expand...

Wise up


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 21, 2022)

We should have a home kit like this.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Wise up
		
Click to expand...

Have a day off


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

Quietest atmosphere I have ever witnessed, so far.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 21, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Not convinced by the team (Maguire??!!) but it's the World Cup and I can't help but be excited...

COME ON ENGLAND 

Click to expand...

Woops someone remind mount it's king now.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Have a day off
		
Click to expand...

Irony.


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 21, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Woops someone remind mount it's king now.
		
Click to expand...

 Beat me to it - funny!


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 21, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Pathetic is what it is.

But, I’m sure all those that don’t like ‘politics’ interfering with their sport will be happy.
		
Click to expand...

So, by your reckoning if the World Cup was in U.K it would be ok for the tournament press, and it’s watchers and officials to be going on about U.K policies and laws , would it?
Or if in the USA, they could go on about *their* policies including gun laws etc etc.

This is a football tournament being held in a particular country. We should not get into going to whichever Country is running the sporting  tournament and using the Sports presenters and their programmes to criticise that Country’s laws, policies etc., or try to get the participants in the sports to answer questions on those non sporting issues.
Where would it end?  Olympics?, Rugby World Cup, Any World sporting events ?
It is not the occasion to do it.

And, in a political discussion away from these sporting environments, you would find my views on certain countries probably coincides with yours😀


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 21, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Beat me to it - funny!
		
Click to expand...

Least he was singing it passionately! Can't knock him for that


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 21, 2022)

BrianM said:



			In my opinion, let the players concentrate on the football, they shouldn’t have to play political games.
		
Click to expand...

👏 
Couldn’t agree more.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

Bear Hugs are allowed at international football then


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 21, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			So, by your reckoning if the World Cup was in U.K it would be ok for the tournament press, and it’s watchers and officials to be going on about U.K policies and laws , would it?
Or if in the USA, they could go on about *their* policies including gun laws etc etc.

This is a football tournament being held in a particular country. We should not get into going to whichever Country is running the sporting  tournament and using the Sports presenters and their programmes to criticise that Country’s laws, policies etc., or try to get the participants in the sports to answer questions on those non sporting issues.
Where would it end?  Olympics?, Rugby World Cup, Any World sporting events ?
It is not the occasion to do it.

And, in a political discussion away from these sporting environments, you would find my views on certain countries probably coincides with yours😀
		
Click to expand...

Eq


Swinglowandslow said:



			So, by your reckoning if the World Cup was in U.K it would be ok for the tournament press, and it’s watchers and officials to be going on about U.K policies and laws , would it?
Or if in the USA, they could go on about *their* policies including gun laws etc etc.

This is a football tournament being held in a particular country. We should not get into going to whichever Country is running the sporting  tournament and using the Sports presenters and their programmes to criticise that Country’s laws, policies etc., or try to get the participants in the sports to answer questions on those non sporting issues.
Where would it end?  Olympics?, Rugby World Cup, Any World sporting events ?
It is not the occasion to do it.

And, in a political discussion away from these sporting environments, you would find my views on certain countries probably coincides with yours😀
		
Click to expand...

I don’t consider wanting people to be treated fairly as a political issue. 

It’s quite sad, if not surprising how many on here can’t separate that.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 21, 2022)

Apart from the rugby tackle and pulling Maguire to the ground, that was never a penalty.

The Iran goalie apart from seeing 4 balls is fit to play as well 👍


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 21, 2022)

How big was his nose beforehand - anyone know?!

Seriously though it is a joke he's been allowed to stay on the field. One more bang to the head could be very serious.


----------



## Imurg (Nov 21, 2022)

Football showing itself to be still in the dark ages.....that keeper shouldn't be allowed to be on the field until he's been properly checked out like they do in rugby


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2022)

Pathetic from the Iran medics.


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 21, 2022)

Common sense prevails on the keeper's part. The captain and medical team would have him play on...


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 21, 2022)

How comes the guy who is concussed has made the decision to come off. 😳🤬


----------



## IanM (Nov 21, 2022)

Ref will add on 1 minute for all this. 

Expect sub to have a blinder


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 21, 2022)

Imurg said:



*Iran* showing itself to be still in the dark ages.....that keeper shouldn't be allowed to be on the field until he's been properly checked out like they do in rugby
		
Click to expand...

Fixed that for you!


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 21, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



*How big was his nose beforehand - anyone know?!*

Seriously though it is a joke he's been allowed to stay on the field. One more bang to the head could be very serious.
		
Click to expand...

Who knows 😖😁 sorry al get me coat.


----------



## Imurg (Nov 21, 2022)

10 minutes to sort this out..
Let's hope the rest of the players have kept their muscles warm...


----------



## fundy (Nov 21, 2022)

IanM said:



			Ref will add on 1 minute for all this
		
Click to expand...

balls been in play less than 5 mins of the first 19 lol, guarantee they wont add it all on thats for sure


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

Iran brought 4 keepers to World Cup. Yet, when one looks like he has been knocked out by Tyson Fury, they keep him on the pitch.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 21, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Football showing itself to be still in the dark ages.....that keeper shouldn't be allowed to be on the field until he's been properly checked out like they do in rugby
		
Click to expand...

That head injury was so bad that he was done being treated so long that (honestly) Tesco just knocked and I've put all the freezer and fridge stuff away in the time he was down on the floor!

It's disgusting he was allowed to play on


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2022)

timd77 said:



			The players shouldn’t be in the position where they’re having to risk getting booked at the start of the match and play the rest holding back to avoid a second.

In my view they shouldn’t be there in the first place. The FA of each country should’ve had the balls to withdraw from the competition as soon as it was clear Qatar had been given it. Imagine the statement it would’ve made if the likes of England, Germany, France, Spain etc weren’t at the World Cup through a boycott. Never gonna happen though, money talks.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree.


----------



## srixon 1 (Nov 21, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			How big was his nose beforehand - anyone know?!

Seriously though it is a joke he's been allowed to stay on the field. One more bang to the head could be very serious.
		
Click to expand...

He could have had his teammates eye out. 👃🤥


----------



## GB72 (Nov 21, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			How comes the guy who is concussed has made the decision to come off. 😳🤬
		
Click to expand...

This is what got rugby in real trouble. Players want to play on in big matches, clubs want them on the pitch, the decision had to be taken out of their hands.


----------



## Piece (Nov 21, 2022)

That's a tidy header 👍


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 21, 2022)

COMING HOME


----------



## fundy (Nov 21, 2022)

Nice hit Boo


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

Assist for Maguire, and what a strike. And another....


----------



## Piece (Nov 21, 2022)

That's a nice third 👍


----------



## fundy (Nov 21, 2022)

14 mins IT  i take it back lol


----------



## Imurg (Nov 21, 2022)

Ever seen 14 minutes of injury time before?


----------



## BrianM (Nov 21, 2022)

England playing superb stuff.
3 great finishes.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 21, 2022)

Wonder if Phillips regrets his move to city , I mean providing fitness he isn't getting back in this line up.

Bellingham was too young last summer but he has slotted right in and made the midfield more forward thinking


----------



## fundy (Nov 21, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Wonder if Phillips regrets his move to city , I mean providing fitness he isn't getting back in this line up.

Bellingham was too young last summer but he has slotted right in and made the midfield more forward thinking
		
Click to expand...


Expect he regrets getting injured, not moving to City. Every chance if fully fit he'd play ahead of Mount in this side with Bellingham more advanced, especially against the better sides


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

Sterling likes playing for England.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 21, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Wonder if Phillips regrets his move to city , I mean providing fitness he isn't getting back in this line up.

Bellingham was too young last summer but he has slotted right in and made the midfield more forward thinking
		
Click to expand...

Phillips is a good back up to Rice, in this heat he may well play the last 15-20 mins if games are won. My concern is If Southgate starts to play him alongside Rice which means we will be playing to defensive. That said he could take off Bellingham and play out the last 20 mins.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2022)

Nice to see us taking our chances.
Three great finishes.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Sterling likes playing for England.
		
Click to expand...

Oddly enough his inclusion in the squad was questioned. 🤔😳👍


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			Expect he regrets getting injured, not moving to City. Every chance if fully fit he'd play ahead of Mount in this side with Bellingham more advanced, especially against the better sides
		
Click to expand...

Was always going to be understudy to rodri though rather than first teamer

I'd not like to see Phillips and rice again unless it's to close out a game . Bellingham is a great traditional number 8


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 21, 2022)

Good goals , very good goals. Careful re injuries now.


----------



## fundy (Nov 21, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Was always going to be understudy to rodri though rather than first teamer

I'd not like to see Phillips and rice again unless it's to close out a game . Bellingham is a great traditional number 8
		
Click to expand...

City play about 70 games every season and rotate heavily, if he was fit hed be getting plenty of game time at City (and will after xmas)


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 21, 2022)

Is this game being played on the moon. There’s no atmosphere. 😳


----------



## GB72 (Nov 21, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Good goals , very good goals. Careful re injuries now.
		
Click to expand...

If it stays like this, hopefully some more of the squad will get brought on to rest the important players (is it 5 subs or 3?).

Southgate needs to be strong, whilst he will want to stay on to chase the golden boot, players like Kane need a rest once the game is won just as much as the back up need time on the pitch.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 21, 2022)

Thought this was not allowed in Qatar


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

GB72 said:



			If it stays like this, hopefully some more of the squad will get brought on to rest the important players (is it 5 subs or 3?).

Southgate needs to be strong, whilst he will want to stay on to chase the golden boot, players like Kane need a rest once the game is won just as much as the back up need time on the pitch.
		
Click to expand...

Assuming players fit, Wilson, Maddison, TAA, Foden, etc. could come on after 60 mins or so. Got an extra concussion sub to use as well


----------



## Asian Dawn (Nov 21, 2022)

This is the most one-sided England v Iran encounter since the SAS stormed their embassy.


----------



## Dando (Nov 21, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Ever seen 14 minutes of injury time before?
		
Click to expand...

yeah, when Ferguson was Man U manager, they had enough injury time to allow them to score


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 21, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Oddly enough his inclusion in the squad was questioned. 🤔😳👍
		
Click to expand...

Aint that the truth! We told em Tashy!


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Was always going to be understudy to rodri though rather than first teamer

I'd not like to see Phillips and rice again unless it's to close out a game . Bellingham is a great traditional number 8
		
Click to expand...

Indeed, Bellingham looks like a modern day Gerrard. Class.


----------



## IanM (Nov 21, 2022)

Micha Richards is blooming funny.  Doing the Ian Wright role of enthusiastic fan!


----------



## Captainron (Nov 21, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Is this game being played on the moon. There’s no atmosphere. 😳
		
Click to expand...

There’s no loudmouth soup on sale to get the fans going


----------



## fundy (Nov 21, 2022)

Captainron said:



			There’s no loudmouth soup on sale to get the fans going
		
Click to expand...

and thankfully none of those wretched vuvuzelas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Captainron (Nov 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			and thankfully none of those wretched vuvuzelas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Ah but they could get spannered and have some fun at the matches. Might have been a touch deaf at the end mind….


----------



## fundy (Nov 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			Nice hit Boo 

Click to expand...

Rinse repeat


----------



## BrianM (Nov 21, 2022)

Captainron said:



			There’s no loudmouth soup on sale to get the fans going
		
Click to expand...

This in fairness probably has a lot to do with it.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 21, 2022)

What a section of subs to bring on at once ..

Hope that goal doesn't put Gareth off going for it... Rather go out and score 4 letting in 1 than battle for 1-0


----------



## fundy (Nov 21, 2022)

Southgate robbed Saka of a hat-trick- Boooooooooooooooooo


----------



## Blue in Munich (Nov 21, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Its coming home
		
Click to expand...


----------



## fundy (Nov 21, 2022)

did they just say there are 23,000 empty seats


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 21, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



View attachment 45286

Click to expand...

Oh Shamima


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2022)

Great finish from Rashford. But what a set up from Kane fantastic.
Sterling also played well.
Maybe winter World Cup is suiting us ?

This Bellingham lad looks good.
Mom for me.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2022)

Very unselfish from Wilson.
Playing as a team very impressive, GS will love that.


----------



## Imurg (Nov 21, 2022)

Total of 24 minutes extra....


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Total of 24 minutes extra....

Click to expand...

That is a full episode of The Office


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 21, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Very unselfish from Wilson.
Playing as a team very impressive, GS will love that.
		
Click to expand...

This all over! Its all about the team not the individuals!


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 21, 2022)

What a save.


----------



## Golfnut1957 (Nov 21, 2022)

The Grealish goal celebration! It's the one he promised the little autistic lad he would in the video that was released last week. The lad asked him to do it if he scored.


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 21, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			What a save.
		
Click to expand...

Pure quality!!! 

Thats why he gets the 1 shirt!


----------



## fundy (Nov 21, 2022)

lol thats a pen and the rugby tackle isnt

VAR at its consistent best haha


----------



## Imurg (Nov 21, 2022)

VAR is so so so so bad.........it's laughable...


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 21, 2022)

More brown envelopes being passed around the VAR hut.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2022)

VAR you couldn’t make it up.


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 21, 2022)

Just imagine that was a decision in the final
0-0 and it’s called in the 90th minute.
Good performance by England against a very poor side.
Var once again a shambles and spoiling football.


----------



## IanM (Nov 21, 2022)

Football officiating is embarrassingly bad.  

Maguire rugby tackled.  Nothing. 
T'other end, penalty.    Thankfully it didn't matter.


----------



## Piece (Nov 21, 2022)

That's not even a foul! Rugby tackles allowed though!!


----------



## Imurg (Nov 21, 2022)

IanM said:



			Football officiating is embarrassingly bad. 

Maguire rugby tackled.  Nothing.
T'other end, penalty.    Thankfully it didn't matter.
		
Click to expand...

The only saving grace.....


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 21, 2022)

Golfnut1957 said:



			The Grealish goal celebration! It's the one he promised the little autistic lad he would in the video that was released last week. The lad asked him to do it if he scored.
		
Click to expand...

ln the context of the occasion, easy to forget. Well done, Jack….you got class in more ways than one


----------



## fundy (Nov 21, 2022)

Golfnut1957 said:



			The Grealish goal celebration! It's the one he promised the little autistic lad he would in the video that was released last week. The lad asked him to do it if he scored.
		
Click to expand...

For anyone who hasnt seen it


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 21, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			ln the context of the occasion, easy to forget. Well done, Jack….you got class in more ways than one
		
Click to expand...

While I'm not his biggest fan these days, the guy has always been absolutely top notch to fans and even better with those with disabilities. 

He's just made that Finlay the happiest boy in the country.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 21, 2022)

Captainron said:



			Ah but they could get spannered and have some fun at the matches. Might have been a touch deaf at the end mind….
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Total of 24 minutes extra....

Click to expand...

Must be a record for the longest ever World Cup match! Excluding extra time of course.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

IanM said:



			Micha Richards is blooming funny.  Doing the Ian Wright role of enthusiastic fan!
		
Click to expand...

Imagine putting Richards, Wright and Keane together in an England match. Keane's nightmare


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			For anyone who hasnt seen it







Click to expand...

That's nice to see. I worry Jack's a bit of a party lad and a bad influence on Foden so it's nice to see another side.


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 21, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			That's nice to see. I worry Jack's a bit of a party lad and a bad influence on Foden so it's nice to see another side.
		
Click to expand...

I feel like he's never brushed that tag off. He enjoys the off season for sure, but after John Terry came to villa Jack changed as a person - first in/ last out mentality. 

Wouldn't worry about him at all during the season.


----------



## Aztecs27 (Nov 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			For anyone who hasnt seen it







Click to expand...

This is absolutely class.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			That's nice to see. I worry Jack's a bit of a party lad and a bad influence on Foden so it's nice to see another side.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, Foden has really struggled since Grealish went to City.....


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 21, 2022)

Dunno whether its ITV's microphones but Netherlands v Senegal is utterly devoid of atmosphere. Vast swathes of empty seats as well.

Lets take the Word Cup to a developing nation....try and grow the game....yeah right, worked a treat hasn't it?


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Dunno whether its ITV's microphones but Netherlands v Senegal is utterly devoid of atmosphere. Vast swathes of empty seats as well.

Lets take the Word Cup to a developing nation....try and grow the game....yeah right, worked a treat hasn't it?
		
Click to expand...

Every game is like a pre season friendly. In England game, the only thing I really heard was the tannoy and the odd drum and horn. 

Complete lack of passion so far


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Dunno whether its ITV's microphones but Netherlands v Senegal is utterly devoid of atmosphere. Vast swathes of empty seats as well.

Lets take the Word Cup to a developing nation....try and grow the game....yeah right, worked a treat hasn't it?
		
Click to expand...

What’s that annoying noise in Holland game .?
Sounds like the microphone next to the air con fan is working ok.


----------



## Imurg (Nov 21, 2022)

We worry about the Golf World Rankings and then you realise Iran are ranked 20th in footy...


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

Imurg said:



			We worry about the Golf World Rankings and then you realise Iran are ranked 20th in footy...

Click to expand...

Yeah. Although, to be fair, it might just highlight the huge gulf between teams at international level.

There may be around a dozen very good sides in the world, and a few OK sides after them. I don't watch much international football, but the sides just a bit worse than Iran in the rankings don't really blow me away either. Not sure if this was a true reflection of Iran today, may get a better reflection in their next 2 games. 

Outside the top European nations, maybe other European nations are hard done by in the rankings?


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2022)

Imurg said:



			We worry about the Golf World Rankings and then you realise Iran are ranked 20th in footy...

Click to expand...

I guess that'll happen if you spend your time playing the likes of Kuwait and Afghanistan.


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 21, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I feel like he's never brushed that tag off. He enjoys the off season for sure, but after John Terry came to villa Jack changed as a person - first in/ last out mentality.

Wouldn't worry about him at all during the season.
		
Click to expand...

He hasn't brushed it off because that's exactly what he is. You only hear about the end of season stuff, the rest he keeps low key. He was hanging around with Mendy and his mate in clubs and house parties while they were upto no good only a year ago


----------



## theoneandonly (Nov 21, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I guess that'll happen if you spend your time playing the likes of Kuwait and Afghanistan.
		
Click to expand...

Typical snooty English attitude tbf.


----------



## PNWokingham (Nov 21, 2022)

The underbelly of Qatar's world cup - not the corrupt bidding process but the slave labour that made it possible


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 21, 2022)

Class performance from England today....

Started the game well, pressing intensely and getting the ball forward quickly. Lots of 50/50 tackles won with ease too. Special mentions to Bellingham for running the midfield with class way beyond his years, Saka for being direct and showing we're a better side without Foden slowing us down and a mention to Harry Kane. Didn't score but was everywhere - dropping deep, out wide, intelligent runs and two assists. He looks to be bang on it and he's a striker who makes everyone else play better. 

Still concerned about Maguire. He was a menace from set pieces but got done for the first goal and had some horrific touches. We can't play a back four with him involved against a top side.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Class performance from England today....

Started the game well, pressing intensely and getting the ball forward quickly. Lots of 50/50 tackles won with ease too. Special mentions to Bellingham for running the midfield with class way beyond his years, Saka for being direct and showing we're a better side without Foden slowing us down and a mention to Harry Kane. Didn't score but was everywhere - dropping deep, out wide, intelligent runs and two assists. He looks to be bang on it and he's a striker who makes everyone else play better.

Still concerned about Maguire. He was a menace from set pieces but got done for the first goal and had some horrific touches. We can't play a back four with him involved against a top side.
		
Click to expand...

I don't remember many horrific touches from him? And, for the goal, he already had double vision.

Sounds like you are looking for anything you can to find negatives with Harry Maguire? You could cherry pick every players moments to find mistakes within a game.


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I don't remember many horrific touches from him? And, for the goal, he already had double vision.

Sounds like you are looking for anything you can to find negatives with Harry Maguire? You could cherry pick every players moments to find mistakes within a game.
		
Click to expand...

He had a fair few sloppy touches at the back. As for double vision he should've gone down if that was the case, playing on with double vision is ridiculous. What if he does that in a big game and costs us a goal? We've got the potential to win this World Cup, we're not going to face any side as bad as Iran again though. If we've conceded two to them it's fair enough to look closer at the defence.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I don't remember many horrific touches from him? And, for the goal, he already had double vision.

Sounds like you are looking for anything you can to find negatives with Harry Maguire? You could cherry pick every players moments to find mistakes within a game.
		
Click to expand...

He did have a couple of bad touches but then so did Bellingham before his goal, rice a couple times ..

Players make mistakes, he more than made up for it with his header to set up saka 

Great team performance

Don't think anyone let the side down 

Except var


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

4LEX said:



			He had a fair few sloppy touches at the back. As for double vision he should've gone down if that was the case, playing on with double vision is ridiculous. What if he does that in a big game and costs us a goal? We've got the potential to win this World Cup, we're not going to face any side as bad as Iran again though. If we've conceded two to them it's fair enough to look closer at the defence.
		
Click to expand...

England were winning 4-0 against Iran. I'll give him a bit of slack, rather than continue the usual witch hunt.

Was it Stones who made a mistake, that meant Pickford had to pull off a great save? Had that been Maguire, some would be burning effigy's of him


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 21, 2022)

Well...I will say with utmost confidence that you will not see a more boring, uneventful game in the entire WC than what has been served up so far by Netherlands and Senegal.

A game utterly devoid of any quality.

...and halfway through writing this the Dutch go and score!!!!


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

Attendance in Dutch game been announced as 41,621. The capacity is 40,000


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Attendance in Dutch game been announced as 41,621. The capacity is 40,000
		
Click to expand...

And there are still swathes of empty seats that have been empty all game!!!


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 21, 2022)

I don't think Maguire did too badly - certainly a menace from set pieces in the opponents box. What bothers me is the amount of times he plays a ball out from the back with lots of air and hang time...just balloons them out there and invites a press (or foul in Iran's case) on the receiving player. I could sense Trippier waiting for the impact as the ball finally arrived at his feet - consequently resulting in a poor touch from him. Mind you some of his passing (Trippier) was very questionable...

All in all a great start but conceding two goals is a concern.

VAR continues to ruin football.


----------



## BrianM (Nov 21, 2022)

The criticism of Iran is pretty harsh, the occasion got to them and they ran into an England team that were flying today.
There isn’t really easy games, we’ve seen games where a team might crumble then the week after win again.
Just my humble opinion, I’ll probably get shot down in flames 😂😂


----------



## IanM (Nov 21, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			Typical snooty English attitude tbf.
		
Click to expand...

Statement of fact.  Their ranking based on recent wins against Chepstow Town and The Dog and Duck Reserves.


----------



## D-S (Nov 21, 2022)

IanM said:



			Statement of fact.  Their ranking based on recent wins against Chepstow Town and The Dog and Duck Reserves.
		
Click to expand...

The Dog and Duck reserves are quite a good side - tbf.
😉


----------



## IanM (Nov 21, 2022)

BrianM said:



			The criticism of Iran is pretty harsh, the occasion got to them and they ran into an England team that were flying today.
There isn’t really easy games, we’ve seen games where a team might crumble then the week after win again.
Just my humble opinion, I’ll probably get shot down in flames 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Lots of pundits saying how tough they'd be to break down and how well organised they'd be.  

Let's see how they do in other games. 

Important to win first game, now we move on


----------



## sunshine (Nov 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah. Although, to be fair, it might just highlight the huge gulf between teams at international level.

There may be around a dozen very good sides in the world, and a few OK sides after them. I don't watch much international football, but the sides just a bit worse than Iran in the rankings don't really blow me away either. Not sure if this was a true reflection of Iran today, may get a better reflection in their next 2 games.

Outside the top European nations, maybe other European nations are hard done by in the rankings?
		
Click to expand...

There are about a dozen "average" European teams that fail to qualify every WC. Any one of them is better than the asia / oceania / north and central america qualifiers. 

If it's not Iran it's Panama, Saudi Arabia, Costa Rica etc. While the likes of Italy, Sweden and Ukraine are at home. Even Scotland would thump these teams.


----------



## pendodave (Nov 21, 2022)

sunshine said:



			There are about a dozen "average" European teams that fail to qualify every WC. Any one of them is better than the asia / oceania / north and central america qualifiers.

If it's not Iran it's Panama, Saudi Arabia, Costa Rica etc. While the likes of Italy, Sweden and Ukraine are at home. Even Scotland would thump these teams.
		
Click to expand...

True enough. 
But we have the Euros for all that. 
It's a "world" cup.


----------



## IanM (Nov 21, 2022)

sunshine said:



			Even Scotland would thump these teams.
		
Click to expand...

Steady on!


----------



## sunshine (Nov 21, 2022)

BrianM said:



			The criticism of Iran is pretty harsh, the occasion got to them and they ran into an England team that were flying today.
There isn’t really easy games, we’ve seen games where a team might crumble then the week after win again.
Just my humble opinion, I’ll probably get shot down in flames 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Iran had a game plan to sit back and frustrate England. 11 men behind the ball, keep it compact, waste as much time as possible, roll around the floor, try and nick a goal on the counter. Once England scored, the plan was gone and they had nothing else to offer. The fact they scored twice was largely due to sloppiness from England once they had a big lead.

Maybe this game plan will work against US or Wales.


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			England were winning 4-0 against Iran. I'll give him a bit of slack, rather than continue the usual witch hunt.

Was it Stones who made a mistake, that meant Pickford had to pull off a great save? Had that been Maguire, some would be burning effigy's of him
		
Click to expand...

I'm being harsh because you can't write off those mistakes if you want to win a tournament. He'll do the same thing if it's 0-0 in the semi final. Stones isn't a great defender either and gave away the penalty with needless shirt pulling. 

People moan about Foden or Maddison not playing yet our success boils down to the defence IMO. I can't see any other way we do well unless we play 5 at the back. Maguire and Stones are the reason why. If only we had Terry and Rio at the back now....


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 21, 2022)

BrianM said:



			The criticism of Iran is pretty harsh, the occasion got to them and they ran into an England team that were flying today.
There isn’t really easy games, we’ve seen games where a team might crumble then the week after win again.
Just my humble opinion, I’ll probably get shot down in flames 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

If Maguire had a good game then the opponent is going to be non league level 😁


----------



## Steve Wilkes (Nov 21, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Class performance from England today....

Started the game well, pressing intensely and getting the ball forward quickly. Lots of 50/50 tackles won with ease too. Special mentions to Bellingham for running the midfield with class way beyond his years, Saka for being direct and showing we're a better side without Foden slowing us down and a mention to Harry Kane. Didn't score but was everywhere - dropping deep, out wide, intelligent runs and two assists. He looks to be bang on it and he's a striker who makes everyone else play better.

Still concerned about Maguire. He was a menace from set pieces *but got done for the first goal* and had some horrific touches. We can't play a back four with him involved against a top side.
		
Click to expand...

Now I know this is a witch hunt, a ball gets played 3-4 yards behind him and the player picking up the runner reacts too slow, but Maguire gets the blame


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2022)

BrianM said:



			The criticism of Iran is pretty harsh, the occasion got to them and they ran into an England team that were flying today.
There isn’t really easy games, we’ve seen games where a team might crumble then the week after win again.
Just my humble opinion, I’ll probably get shot down in flames 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Yes think losing their keeper was a big blow to them.


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 21, 2022)

One plus though with the midfield playing well no Henderson.
Trippier keeping TAA out is always a plus.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 21, 2022)

Cmon Wales👍


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 21, 2022)

Cracking rousing Welsh anthem singing. Lets hope they can put a couple of goals in the net.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2022)

Good luck to Wales tonight .
Just hope it’s a good game.


----------



## sunshine (Nov 21, 2022)

I'm surprised Mel Smooth hasn't popped up on this thread yet to tell us how wonderful Qatar is, and what an amazing atmospere there is at all the matches.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

sunshine said:



			There are about a dozen "average" European teams that fail to qualify every WC. Any one of them is better than the asia / oceania / north and central america qualifiers.

If it's not Iran it's Panama, Saudi Arabia, Costa Rica etc. While the likes of Italy, Sweden and Ukraine are at home. Even Scotland would thump these teams.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, but we were talking rankings, not qualification criteria. The Top 32 ranked teams do not qualify for the World Cup


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 21, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Cmon Wales👍
		
Click to expand...

agree, but first minutes suggest they are uptight and may get clobbered.🙁


----------



## Golfnut1957 (Nov 21, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			Typical snooty English attitude tbf.
		
Click to expand...

Snooty, Orikoru?


----------



## D-S (Nov 21, 2022)

pendodave said:



			True enough.
But we have the Euros for all that.
It's a "world" cup.
		
Click to expand...

Don't forget its one country one vote in Fifa - football has little to do with it.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 21, 2022)

Wales a bit under the cosh here at the moment - struggling to get a foot into the game

Missing the Welsh Xavi


----------



## Slime (Nov 21, 2022)

I fell this is a must win game for both sides tonight, and I think it'll be USA who take the spoils.
Only 15 minutes in but I've already seen two Oscar nominations for 'The Most Dramatic Acting' category.


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 21, 2022)

Steve Wilkes said:



			Now I know this is a witch hunt, a ball gets played 3-4 yards behind him and the player picking up the runner reacts too slow, but Maguire gets the blame
		
Click to expand...

No witch hunt, he got done due to ball watching and poor positioning. If that happens in a knock out game when it really matters the reaction would be different.

I thought he showed enough overall to get another game to sharpen up. That doesn't mean you can't qestion him though.


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 21, 2022)

Slime said:



			I fell this is a must win game for both sides tonight, and I think it'll be USA who take the spoils.
Only 15 minutes in but I've already seen two Oscar nominations for 'The Most Dramatic Acting' category.
		
Click to expand...

On the touchline so screams of agony fully heard on microphone too!


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 21, 2022)

Haven’t been near the U.S penalty area yet, except for one long free kick.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 21, 2022)

Dire first 30 minutes for Wales. They've shown nothing. Really disappointing.


----------



## IanM (Nov 21, 2022)

Bale's Boyos need to start playing. 
Mind you, he only needs one look...


----------



## IainP (Nov 21, 2022)

Been in airport and just boarding,  so reliant on forum and live-text.
Just seen this, can you hear it and if so how do you answer?
‐---
We’ve had the first rendition of the ‘I believe that we will win' chant from the USA fans.

Is it the worst chant in football?


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 21, 2022)

IanM said:



			Bale's Boyos need to start playing.
Mind you, he only needs one look...
		
Click to expand...

needs two now!


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

Looks like Wales have just gone to Qatar it the holiday. Have they just spent all their prep time playing golf?


----------



## fundy (Nov 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Looks like Wales have just gone to Qatar it the holiday. Have they just spent all their prep time playing golf?
		
Click to expand...

think its the opposite, been banned from playing golf


----------



## Slime (Nov 21, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			On the touchline so screams of agony fully heard on microphone too!
		
Click to expand...

It's the screaming when they haven't been touched that really does my head in.


----------



## Slime (Nov 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			think its the opposite, been banned from playing golf
		
Click to expand...

They'll have plenty of time for golf in a few days time.


----------



## BrianM (Nov 21, 2022)

USA play with some intensity, deservedly in front, Wales will need to change something in the second half to get anything from this game.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 21, 2022)

funds said:



			think its the opposite, been banned from playing golf
		
Click to expand...

"*]think its the opposite, been banned from playing *“

Think this is what you meant to say😂

Hopefully they’ll play like this against England.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 21, 2022)

IainP said:



			Been in airport and just boarding,  so reliant on forum and live-text.
Just seen this, can you hear it and if so how do you answer?
‐---
We’ve had the first rendition of the ‘I believe that we will win' chant from the USA fans.

Is it the worst chant in football?
		
Click to expand...

Sound really isn't that clear so you can't make out songs, it's weirdly mushed. Sorry.


----------



## theoneandonly (Nov 21, 2022)

Golfnut1957 said:



			Snooty, Orikoru? 

Click to expand...

The view that footballing lesser nations are somehow not worthy of a place at the world cup or a half decent ranking.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 21, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594749585418764296


----------



## paddyc (Nov 21, 2022)

Wales need to get Bale on!


----------



## Slime (Nov 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594749585418764296

Click to expand...

They are footballers, not politicians.
This arm band discussion has got so much more publicity due to the 'will they, won't they' saga than if they'd just been allowed to wear them.
They've made their point, now let them get on with the job of playing football.


----------



## theoneandonly (Nov 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594749585418764296

Click to expand...

https://www.caughtoffside.com/2022/11/21/virgil-van-dijk-wont-wear-onelove-armband-at-world-cup/


----------



## theoneandonly (Nov 21, 2022)

IanM said:



			Statement of fact.  Their ranking based on recent wins against Chepstow Town and The Dog and Duck Reserves.
		
Click to expand...

You prove the point.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594749585418764296

Click to expand...

If you feel so strongly about Qatar, you should boycott watching all games. Bet you don't


----------



## theoneandonly (Nov 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			If you feel so strongly about Qatar, you should boycott watching all games. Bet you don't
		
Click to expand...

Apparently a number of Welsh fans were turned away for wearing rainbow hats.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			Typical snooty English attitude tbf.
		
Click to expand...

You what?? 

So you think Iran are legitimately the 20th best team in the world then? You don't think their ranking might be a bit high due to having no good teams to face in their qualifying section at all?


----------



## theoneandonly (Nov 21, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



https://www.caughtoffside.com/2022/11/21/virgil-van-dijk-wont-wear-onelove-armband-at-world-cup/

Click to expand...

Shame on the Liverpool and Netherlands captain.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			The view that footballing lesser nations are somehow not worthy of a place at the world cup or a half decent ranking.
		
Click to expand...

Nothing to do with worthiness I just think the rankings are garbage.


----------



## theoneandonly (Nov 21, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			You what?? 

So you think Iran are legitimately the 20th best team in the world then? You don't think their ranking might be a bit high due to having no good teams to face in their qualifying section at all?
		
Click to expand...

When was the last time they played either Kuwait or Afghanistan?


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			When was the last time they played either Kuwait or Afghanistan?
		
Click to expand...

In qualifying they only had to beat UAE, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon to get though. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Not exactly powerhouses.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 21, 2022)

Slime said:



			They are footballers, not politicians.
This arm band discussion has got so much more publicity due to the 'will they, won't they' saga than if they'd just been allowed to wear them.
They've made their point, now let them get on with the job of playing football.
		
Click to expand...

Many other sports stars have taken a stance - the Iran footballers took a stance knowing that it could cost them a lot more than a yellow card.

This World Cup is one huge sportswashing campaign and there is a huge opportunity for people to say no and challenge it

The English FA were very vocal about wearing the armband - yet a thread of a yellow card and they bottled it , all that talk gone. They didn’t “make their point” - when they had the platform to make their point they backed down.

Gutless but no surprise really when it’s the FA.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594786348283662354
This women has more bottle than any of them


----------



## theoneandonly (Nov 21, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			In qualifying they only had to beat UAE, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon to get though. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Not exactly powerhouses.
		
Click to expand...

Tbf have a look at the rankings and they don't look out of place to the teams around them.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 21, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



https://www.caughtoffside.com/2022/11/21/virgil-van-dijk-wont-wear-onelove-armband-at-world-cup/

Click to expand...

I find all of them hypocrites , however I will still watch and enjoy the world cup. Will I suddenly think Qatar is a lovely place with banging human rights? Nope not a chance . Same with Saudis and Liv. Doesn't make me think they are great people just because they fund something.

But back to the point the players are cowards when it comes to real protest ..


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 21, 2022)

Who is the Welsh bloke commentating on ITV? And has he ever seen a game of football before?


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 21, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			In qualifying they only had to beat UAE, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon to get though. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Not exactly powerhouses.
		
Click to expand...

Ranking points are based on the quality of the opposition you play as well....so you won't get the same for beating Iraq as you would for beating say Scotland.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2022)

Shocking tackle .
You can’t do that in the box.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2022)

Deserved equaliser imo.
Wales much better second half.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			Tbf have a look at the rankings and they don't look out of place to the teams around them.
		
Click to expand...

I won't lie, I did have a look at them again and realised how few good teams there actually are in international football. 😂


----------



## theoneandonly (Nov 21, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Ranking points are based on the quality of the opposition you play as well....so you won't get the same for beating Iraq as you would for beating say Scotland.
		
Click to expand...

😂🤣


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 21, 2022)

Wales and Bale have been awful. The commentators go nuts as if Bale scores a worldie. Embarrassing


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Who is the Welsh bloke commentating on ITV? And has he ever seen a game of football before?
		
Click to expand...

John Hartson, and I think he is the least unbiased commentator I've ever heard on a game. Doesn't even pretend to try and hide it. Very annoying.


----------



## pendodave (Nov 21, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			John Hartson, and I think he is the least unbiased commentator I've ever heard on a game. Does even pretend to try and hide it. Very annoying.
		
Click to expand...

Haha. Was just thinking the same!
Might as well have Max Boyce on.
Hard to begrudge them being a bit emotional and all that though.


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 21, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			John Hartson, and I think he is the least unbiased commentator I've ever heard on a game. Does even pretend to try and hide it. Very annoying.
		
Click to expand...

It makes me want the USA to win more than I already do.


----------



## fundy (Nov 21, 2022)

Great to see refs finally adding on the right amount of time, be nice if the prem league could adopt this approach too. i wont hold my breath.............


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 21, 2022)

Time added on at the end of halves has been significant in pretty much every game....wonder if the refs have been given specific guidance as to clamp down and and be a bit more strict on making sure appropriate time is added on for stoppages and time wasting.


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 21, 2022)

fundy said:



			Great to see refs finally adding on the right amount of time, be nice if the prem league could adopt this approach too. i wont hold my breath.............
		
Click to expand...

Have to make it an earlier kick off for some teams


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			John Hartson, and I think he is the least unbiased commentator I've ever heard on a game. Doesn't even pretend to try and hide it. Very annoying.
		
Click to expand...

Do fans really want to hear a neutral co-commentator? Especially in a match televised in the UK, with one of the teams a home nation.  I mean, you'd expect the commentators to be rooting for England, so why not Wales.

Hartson may not be great, but at least he offers a bit of passion.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Do fans really want to hear a neutral co-commentator? Especially in a match televised in the UK, with one of the teams a home nation.  I mean, you'd expect the commentators to be rooting for England, so why not Wales.

Hartson may not be great, but at least he offers a bit of passion.
		
Click to expand...

I think it's just grating the way he does it. The English ones usually tend to be slightly more reserved, or less excitable maybe.


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Do fans really want to hear a neutral co-commentator? Especially in a match televised in the UK, with one of the teams a home nation.  I mean, you'd expect the commentators to be rooting for England, so why not Wales.

Hartson may not be great, but at least he offers a bit of passion.
		
Click to expand...

I’d like a commentator to add some insight into what is going on. It’s just rambling nonsense from Hartson.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I think it's just grating the way he does it. The English ones usually tend to be slightly more reserved, or less excitable maybe.
		
Click to expand...

Yes but Hartson has never been to a World Cup game before.
It’s good to hear a bit of passion imo.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 21, 2022)

Hats off to Keiffer Moore. Had a major impact for Wales in the second half. Gave Wales a focal point up front, held the ball up well, brought others in. 

It gives them a chance.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Time added on at the end of halves has been significant in pretty much every game....wonder if the refs have been given specific guidance as to clamp down and and be a bit more strict on making sure appropriate time is added on for stoppages and time wasting.
		
Click to expand...

Yes Pulisic going down but ref played on and he got up.
Well done to the ref.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2022)

That was an Entertaining game, a draw was probably the right result. USA are a lively team, it will be funny watching Weah run rings around England’s cart horse.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 21, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			If you feel so strongly about Qatar, you should boycott watching all games. Bet you don't
		
Click to expand...

Shouldn’t everyone feel strongly about Qatar and what goes on there 🤷‍♂️ or indeed any country with such horrific human rights issues , treatment of migrant workers , treatment of women , treatment of LGBT or are you ok to ignore it because it’s football


----------



## Slime (Nov 21, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I find all of them hypocrites , however I will still watch and enjoy the world cup. Will I suddenly think Qatar is a lovely place with banging human rights? Nope not a chance . Same with Saudis and Liv. Doesn't make me think they are great people just because they fund something.

But back to the point *the players are cowards when it comes to real protest* ..
		
Click to expand...

They are merely footballers, it's unfair to shoulder them with the responsibility of ensuring global inclusivity. and human rights.
Calling them cowards is just ridiculous.
What real protest are you making?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 21, 2022)

Slime said:



			They are merely footballers, it's unfair to shoulder them with the responsibility of ensuring global inclusivity. and human rights.
Calling them cowards is just ridiculous.
What real protest are you making?
		
Click to expand...

Mere footballers with the whole sporting world watching them and the chance to do something and make a statement- they bottled it , all talk about wearing the arm band and making a statement about inclusivity and all that was needed was a threat of a yellow card - yes that’s a cowards act


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594768580176154624


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 21, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes Pulisic going down but ref played on and he got up.
Well done to the ref.
		
Click to expand...

I found that a bit strange. The ref had already stopped the game three times, once for a USA player and twice for Welsh players, for leg/foot injuries but the Pulisic went down and he let play continue. Didn't seem very consistent with what had gone before.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2022)

Slime said:



			They are merely footballers, it's unfair to shoulder them with the responsibility of ensuring global inclusivity. and human rights.
Calling them cowards is just ridiculous.
What real protest are you making?
		
Click to expand...

Over the years footballers have fronted campaign after campaign. With their refusal to stand by their view, it looks like all previous campaigns have been a massive PR stunt.


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 21, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			That was an Entertaining game, a draw was probably the right result. USA are a lively team, it will be funny watching Weah run rings around England’s cart horse.
		
Click to expand...

If you are referring to HM then I'm not sure he will be able to play....I thought concussion protocols dictate that you need to rest for several days (7-10?) before playing again?


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594749585418764296

Click to expand...

Take the knee for years and bang on about social justice but when it comes to making a real stand they bottle it. All we heard for months was nonsense about this one love arm band and how it is making a stand but at the first tiny threat they go back on everything that was said. All this political stuff can be rightly exposed for the bunch of crap it is.

Leave footballers to play football. It's that simple.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 21, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



https://www.caughtoffside.com/2022/11/21/virgil-van-dijk-wont-wear-onelove-armband-at-world-cup/

Click to expand...




theoneandonly said:



			Shame on the Liverpool and Netherlands captain.
		
Click to expand...

There is always the odd 🛎️ that will always look to bring some faux club tribalism into it - you never fail to disappoint Paddy


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 21, 2022)

Slime said:



			They are merely footballers, it's unfair to shoulder them with the responsibility of ensuring global inclusivity. and human rights.
Calling them cowards is just ridiculous.
What real protest are you making?
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but they are

They all agree to taking the knee, rainbow laces and the armbands

All it took was a yellow card threat and they backed down

Doesn't stop them removing their shirts when they score the risk of a yellow


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Take the knee for years and bang on about social justice but when it comes to making a real stand they bottle it. All we heard for months was nonsense about this one love arm band and how it is making a stand but at the first tiny threat they go back on everything that was said. All this political stuff can be rightly exposed for the bunch of crap it is.

*Leave footballers to play football. It's that simple.*

Click to expand...

It should be but it’s not. Football has long gone from it just about being a sport.

You've only got to look not too far back as Politicians calling out Footballers to put their hands in their pockets during Covid.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 21, 2022)

@Slime 




This one summed it up for me


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 21, 2022)

Golfnut1957 said:



			The Grealish goal celebration! It's the one he promised the little autistic lad he would in the video that was released last week. The lad asked him to do it if he scored.
		
Click to expand...

I think Grealish thought it might be in a city shirt.


----------



## theoneandonly (Nov 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There is always the odd 🛎️ that will always look to bring some faux club tribalism into it - you never fail to disappoint Paddy
		
Click to expand...

Strange reply. It's gutless of Harry Kane and the English fa but not Vvd and the Dutch fa?


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 21, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Shouldn’t everyone feel strongly about Qatar and what goes on there 🤷‍♂️ or indeed any country with such horrific human rights issues , treatment of migrant workers , treatment of women , treatment of LGBT or are you ok to ignore it because it’s football
		
Click to expand...

I am sure we all feel strongly, and it hasn't been ignored. It has pretty much all anyone has talked about since Qatar won the bid. It is covered in the news, and the presenters and pundits have talked about it. Was somebody not complaining the BBC was talking about it too much, and they should stick to football?

So, I don't need Harry Kane to wear a coloured armband, and if he doesn't suddenly he is bottling it!? The players have been blitzed by questions regarding the issues for ages, and they have continually tried to answer them as best they can. But, they are footballers, not politicians or activists. They are there to do a job. As much as you want to continue virtue signalling, there are many English people that actually want to see England do well, and have the players focused on their job. Marcus Rashford did great things off the pitch a year or so ago, but to some it was felt it was a distraction, and had an impact on his performances on the pitch.

It seems like your life is to try and just take anybody down that is not associated with Liverpool FC  .


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I am sure we all feel strongly, and it hasn't been ignored. It has pretty much all anyone has talked about since Qatar won the bid. It is covered in the news, and the presenters and pundits have talked about it. Was somebody not complaining the BBC was talking about it too much, and they should stick to football?
		
Click to expand...

Yes lots of talk before hand and especially from England and Wales FA - yet when it came down to action from their talk they bottled it under a threat a yellow card

The Iran players risked far much more yet they had the courage to go through their convictions

what we saw is both the Wales and England FA or indeed any other FA who were very vocal about wearing the armband is that they didn’t have the courage to go with their convictions




			So, I don't need Harry Kane to wear a coloured armband, and if he doesn't suddenly he is bottling it!? The players have been blitzed by questions regarding the issues for ages, and they have continually tried to answer them as best they can. But, they are footballers, not politicians or activists. They are there to do a job. As much as you want to continue virtue signalling, there are many English people that actually want to see England do well, and have the players focused on their job. Marcus Rashford did great things off the pitch a year or so ago, but to some it was felt it was a distraction, and had an impact on his performances on the pitch.
		
Click to expand...

So basically we all care about human rights but not if it gets in the way of a football match or a player playing well - human rights etc aren’t as important as a team playing well

The players did a lot of talking about standing up to the issues but it seems it was just talk and when the time came to put actions to their words - something was more important to them.

It’s no surprise that no one single top level player has come out at gay - they clearly know they wouldn’t be backed by their fellow pros




			It seems like your life is to try and just take anybody down that is not associated with Liverpool FC  .
		
Click to expand...

And that last comment pretty much sums you up - it’s got nothing to do with any club , my opinion would be no different if Henderson was captain and he did the same as Kane


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Mere footballers with the whole sporting world watching them and the chance to do something and make a statement- they bottled it , all talk about wearing the arm band and making a statement about inclusivity and all that was needed was a threat of a yellow card - yes that’s a cowards act


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594768580176154624

Click to expand...

It’s the World Cup of football. Once the decision as to venue is decided( which is nowt to do with the players, the Players are there to play football)
Why don’t you lay the fault at the proper place, which is the people who decided the venue.?
If they go out and get a yellow , then a red , for continuing their protest, their team chances are wrecked, probably their careers etc.
They are there to play football.
calling them cowards is not good.
Seems to me a bit ironic, you calling them cowards from behind a keyboard. 
Would you do it to their faces?


----------



## Slime (Nov 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The players did a lot of talking about standing up to the issues but it seems it was just talk and when the time came to put actions to their words - something was more important to them.

*It’s no surprise that no one single top level player has come out at gay - they clearly know they wouldn’t be backed by their fellow pros*

Click to expand...

I couldn't disagree more.
It's opposition supporters that I believe is putting them off.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			It’s the World Cup of football. Once the decision as to venue is decided( which is nowt to do with the players, the Players are there to play football)
Why don’t you lay the fault at the proper place, which is the people who decided the venue.?
If they go out and get a yellow , then a red , for continuing their protest, their team chances are wrecked, probably their careers etc.
They are there to play football.
calling them cowards is not good.
Seems to me a bit ironic, you calling them cowards from behind a keyboard.
Would you do it to their faces?
		
Click to expand...

No one is blaming the players for the World Cup going to Qatar - there has been plenty of discussion in regards FIFA about it 

And why would a player’s career be wrecked because they took a stance and wore an armband ? It’s the same armband they have won many times before and it’s not caused an issue ?

There were many ways for the teams to show solidarity and put actions behind their words 

Iran players put a lot more on the line when they made their protest and they are footballers 

And yes I believe it’s gutless to make claims and then not follow through with them when it mattered.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes lots of talk before hand and especially from England and Wales FA - yet when it came down to action from their talk they bottled it under a threat a yellow card

The Iran players risked far much more yet they had the courage to go through their convictions

what we saw is both the Wales and England FA or indeed any other FA who were very vocal about wearing the armband is that they didn’t have the courage to go with their convictions



So basically we all care about human rights but not if it gets in the way of a football match or a player playing well - human rights etc aren’t as important as a team playing well

The players did a lot of talking about standing up to the issues but it seems it was just talk and when the time came to put actions to their words - something was more important to them.

It’s no surprise that no one single top level player has come out at gay - they clearly know they wouldn’t be backed by their fellow pros



And that last comment pretty much sums you up - it’s got nothing to do with any club , my opinion would be no different if Henderson was captain and he did the same as Kane
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely, my last comment DOES sum me up. It sums up my opinion on YOU, which I get from your constant posts on the various threads in this forum.

You cannot compare the England players wearing an arm band with the likes of the Iranian players or Muhammed Ali. The key difference is that the issues they took a stance against were issues that directly impact upon them and their community. There is a bigger message sent out when the people taking a stance identify with the cause they are highlighting (the Iranian players also did not risk any punishment from FIFA). England players have been taking the knee for ages, but you can happily ignore what that stands for, because now they are not taking a stance against some other wrong in the world. Personally, I would have had no issue with England players wearing armbands, but I have no issue with them not doing so either. The negatives can be that the people they are trying to send the message to actually respect it less, because all it appears to be is virtue signalling from people that are not impacted by, and therefore ignorant of the broader situation. It dilutes the message, and might even cause more harm than good? 

Sports players do not behave in a manner fitting for Liverpoolphil. Or for me. They may live on a different world to most of us in terms of everyday life tasks and common sense (although, to be fair, many of them are teenagers / young men still). But, I also suspect they are exposed to much broader issues in life, as they have to watch every word they say more carefully than us, and they are exposed to many more different people / charities and asked of their opinion on many issues. Out of pure probablility, I'd be very confident in saying that it is unlikely Liverpoolphil has more integrity / a more decent human being (out of anybody's general metrics in defining such a thing) than every single England player and staff member. I suspect many would consider them as "better" people, whatever that means, than you. Perhaps they don't spend their lives judging others on social media, and act all righteous?

I seem to remember in the early days of the LIV debate, you were very vocal about sport washing. I don't mind that debate in general, but you took it to another level. You informed us, if I remember rightly, that you had family members that were huge F1 fans, and they refused to watch the Abu Dabi Grand Prix purely due to their outrages in the human rights issues in the Middle East. You seemed to pass that comment off as if we should all follow the same principle, as if it is the right thing to do. And, therefore, LIV fans were almost meant to feel guilty if they enjoyed LIV, as they would somehow be supporting all aspects of life in the Middle East.

However, I bet you are watching the World Cup, now that it suits you? Do you watch the golf in Dubai? Do you not think you come across as a hypocrite? Some are calling footballers hypocrites, but at least they still wanted to wear the armband, but were effectively being forced to not do so. They were jointly asked by the football authorities of several countries, and agreed. So, if one comes out now and wears one, it goes against the other authorities, and makes other people look a bit silly. But, I assume no one is forcing you to watch the World Cup?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 22, 2022)

Seriously have a day off 🤦‍♂️
Or at least a few days,I’m sure there will be something to criticise and bang on about on Friday at 7pm🥱🥱🥱


----------



## Neilds (Nov 22, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Seriously have a day off 🤦‍♂️
Or at least a few days,I’m sure there will be something to criticise and bang on about on Friday at 7pm🥱🥱🥱
		
Click to expand...

Post of the day


----------



## GB72 (Nov 22, 2022)

OK, so is everyone going to pile on Belgium now. Not only are they not wearing the armband but they have changed their away strip to remove the word 'love' from inside the collar and may not wear their training shirts as they celebrate a festival based around diversity. All, of course, at FIFA's request. What they have said is that nations may have to consider their relationship with FIFA after the World Cup and that seems to me to be what we need, the FA to say that they have agreed to follow the requirements of FIFA against their wishes but will be looking into their relationship with FIFA after the tournament as clearly FIFA has failed the read the room on the feelings of many nations. FIFA may be taking a hard stance to keep Qatar happy but I suspect that the repercussions of that will run on for long after the tournament ends. 

This is an issue well above and much bigger than the players themselves who will, to a large extent, be following the instructions of the FA


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2022)

GB72 said:



			OK, so is everyone going to pile on Belgium now. Not only are they not wearing the armband but they have changed their away strip to remove the word 'love' from inside the collar and may not wear their training shirts as they celebrate a festival based around diversity. All, of course, at FIFA's request. What they have said is that nations may have to consider their relationship with FIFA after the World Cup and that seems to me to be what we need, the FA to say that they have agreed to follow the requirements of FIFA against their wishes but will be looking into their relationship with FIFA after the tournament as clearly FIFA has failed the read the room on the feelings of many nations. FIFA may be taking a hard stance to keep Qatar happy but I suspect that the repercussions of that will run on for long after the tournament ends.

This is an issue well above and much bigger than the players themselves who will, to a large extent, be following the instructions of the FA
		
Click to expand...

the FA’s from all over the world should have done this before - but FIFA as they do are doing this all last minute 

All those FIFA promises about how fans will be treated and the country will welcome all from all over the world and not have issues with someone over their choice of lifestyle as we see in the modern world. 

it’s just like the alcohol ban - last minute because they know the FAs and fans are already there 

Just look at the presidents speech - one minute he is saying how he is with everyone but the next minute he tells the FA’s the opposite 

The hypocrisy stinks , and it’s starts from the bare faced corruption from FIFA clearly highlighted with all those that voted to have the World Cup in Qatar have either been found guilty of corruption or suspected 

The World Cup used to be a wonderful sporting occasion- right now it’s one big sportswashing exercise and it’s working. 

The only hope is that FA’s from around the world do something but i suspect not when money gets dished around.


----------



## GB72 (Nov 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			the FA’s from all over the world should have done this before - but FIFA as they do are doing this all last minute

All those FIFA promises about how fans will be treated and the country will welcome all from all over the world and not have issues with someone over their choice of lifestyle as we see in the modern world.

it’s just like the alcohol ban - last minute because they know the FAs and fans are already there

Just look at the presidents speech - one minute he is saying how he is with everyone but the next minute he tells the FA’s the opposite

The hypocrisy stinks , and it’s starts from the bare faced corruption from FIFA clearly highlighted with all those that voted to have the World Cup in Qatar have either been found guilty of corruption or suspected

The World Cup used to be a wonderful sporting occasion- right now it’s one big sportswashing exercise and it’s working.

The only hope is that FA’s from around the world do something but i suspect not when money gets dished around.
		
Click to expand...

How is it working exactly. What I see is more headlines and comments about the heavy handed approach being taken, the spurious attendance figures, the backtracking etc than I do on the football. I would suggest that, as far as sportswashing is concerned, it is one of the worst efforts so far. The media have their angle and they are all now looking for more stories to bolster that. I have more stories on my timeline about the former welsh women's captain being made to remove her LGBT+ supporting bucket hat and the US jounalist being asked to remove his similarly branded t shirt than I have about the football. In fact, I would suggest that the coverage about being banned from wearing the armband has had almost as bigh an impact as actually wearing it as it is showin the leadership in their true colours and FIFA as their lapdogs. To successfully sportswash they needed no controversy, a more liberal image to the outside world and eveyone to have had a good time at a celebration of football. So far that has failed on all fronts. 

Sadly, I suspect that there will be action from the FAs in Europe at least but it will be a power grab as they have always felt they should be the dominant force in FIFA, rather then any action based on true moral feeling.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 22, 2022)

OMG, has anyone seen the VAR review in Argentina game, that awarded them a penalty. Almost exactly the same as the Maguire incident yesterday. In fact, I think Maguire was man handled to a much greater extent than the Argentine player. You'd have though given referees plenty of time and camera angles to review decisions, would greatly reduce inconsistencies in decisions. Seems not to be the case, or certainly not as much as I'd expect.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			OMG, has anyone seen the VAR review in Argentina game, that awarded them a penalty. Almost exactly the same as the Maguire incident yesterday. In fact, I think Maguire was man handled to a much greater extent than the Argentine player. You'd have though given referees plenty of time and camera angles to review decisions, would greatly reduce inconsistencies in decisions. Seems not to be the case, or certainly not as much as I'd expect.
		
Click to expand...

Yes was less of and with Harry wasn't stones being pulled down simultaneously? Was two fouls . Imo ofc


----------



## Aztecs27 (Nov 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			OMG, has anyone seen the VAR review in Argentina game, that awarded them a penalty. Almost exactly the same as the Maguire incident yesterday. In fact, I think Maguire was man handled to a much greater extent than the Argentine player. You'd have though given referees plenty of time and camera angles to review decisions, would greatly reduce inconsistencies in decisions. Seems not to be the case, or certainly not as much as I'd expect.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely abysmal implementation of Video Assisted Refereeing


----------



## Old Skier (Nov 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			OMG, has anyone seen the VAR review in Argentina game, that awarded them a penalty. Almost exactly the same as the Maguire incident yesterday. In fact, I think Maguire was man handled to a much greater extent than the Argentine player. You'd have though given referees plenty of time and camera angles to review decisions, would greatly reduce inconsistencies in decisions. Seems not to be the case, or certainly not as much as I'd expect.
		
Click to expand...

VAR team had gone out for a beer.


----------



## Old Skier (Nov 22, 2022)

Love all the extra time. Perhaps the directive was to take into account all the play acting going on.


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 22, 2022)

I noticed Alex


Liverpoolphil said:



			Many other sports stars have taken a stance - the Iran footballers took a stance knowing that it could cost them a lot more than a yellow card.

This World Cup is one huge sportswashing campaign and there is a huge opportunity for people to say no and challenge it

The English FA were very vocal about wearing the armband - yet a thread of a yellow card and they bottled it , all that talk gone. They didn’t “make their point” - when they had the platform to make their point they backed down.

Gutless but no surprise really when it’s the FA.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594786348283662354
This women has more bottle than any of them
		
Click to expand...

Also as I said in the footie thread at least Alex Scott stood by her principles and wore the one love armband.


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 22, 2022)

Souness vs Keane


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2022)

GB72 said:



			How is it working exactly. What I see is more headlines and comments about the heavy handed approach being taken, the spurious attendance figures, the backtracking etc than I do on the football. I would suggest that, as far as sportswashing is concerned, it is one of the worst efforts so far. The media have their angle and they are all now looking for more stories to bolster that. I have more stories on my timeline about the former welsh women's captain being made to remove her LGBT+ supporting bucket hat and the US jounalist being asked to remove his similarly branded t shirt than I have about the football. In fact, I would suggest that the coverage about being banned from wearing the armband has had almost as bigh an impact as actually wearing it as it is showin the leadership in their true colours and FIFA as their lapdogs. To successfully sportswash they needed no controversy, a more liberal image to the outside world and eveyone to have had a good time at a celebration of football. So far that has failed on all fronts.

Sadly, I suspect that there will be action from the FAs in Europe at least but it will be a power grab as they have always felt they should be the dominant force in FIFA, rather then any action based on true moral feeling.
		
Click to expand...

The fact it’s going on and people want to just “concentrate” on the football imo shows that it will work as a sportswashing exercise

I’ll give it about 5 mins after the event has finished and it will all be forgotten - shame as it was the perfect stage

Some have stood up - Alex Scott for example , and hopefully others will continue to ensure that that we never see events going there of this scale until the region ( or any region ) drag themselves into modern society

And that should be the same for any society that doesn’t treat all the same



Rlburnside said:



			I noticed Alex


Also as I said in the footie thread at least Alex Scott stood by her principles and wore the one love armband.
		
Click to expand...

Yep spot on - she may get fired or sent home etc but she at least stood up for her beliefs.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 22, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Souness vs Keane 

Click to expand...

Was hilariously petty. I was hoping they'd come to blows.


----------



## srixon 1 (Nov 22, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Souness vs Keane 

Click to expand...

Keane is a first class 🔔 end. Souness not far behind.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 22, 2022)

Be interesting to see what Bellinghams valued at after the tournament.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 22, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			I *noticed Alex*


Also as I said in the footie thread at least Alex Scott stood by her principles and wore the one love armband.
		
Click to expand...

I noticed her a lot


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The fact it’s going on and people want to just “concentrate” on the football imo shows that it will work as a sportswashing exercise

I’ll give it about 5 mins after the event has finished and it will all be forgotten - shame as it was the perfect stage

Some have stood up - Alex Scott for example , and hopefully others will continue to ensure that that we never see events going there of this scale until the region ( or any region ) drag themselves into modern society

And that should be the same for any society that doesn’t treat all the same



Yep spot on - she may get fired or sent home etc but she at least stood up for her beliefs.
		
Click to expand...

She won't get fired, why would a UK broadcaster fire her? FIFA may remove her accreditation but that will do her no harm, she can just go into a studio then. It's a free hit for her, not at all comparable to the players.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			She won't get fired, why would a UK broadcaster fire her? FIFA may remove her accreditation but that will do her no harm, she can just go into a studio then. It's a free hit for her, not at all comparable to the players.
		
Click to expand...

I'm surprised someone didn't walk out with a yellow card for her.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 22, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Be interesting to see what Bellinghams valued at after the tournament.
		
Click to expand...

Does anyone have a better recruitment team than Borussia Dortmund? Quite remarkable success rate in buying players, developing and then selling for massive sums.


----------



## srixon 1 (Nov 22, 2022)

Get in. 😂


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The fact it’s going on and people want to just “concentrate” on the football imo shows that it will work as a sportswashing exercise

I’ll give it about 5 mins after the event has finished and it will all be forgotten - shame as it was the perfect stage

Some have stood up - Alex Scott for example , and hopefully others will continue to ensure that that we never see events going there of this scale until the region ( or any region ) drag themselves into modern society

And that should be the same for any society that doesn’t treat all the same



*Yep spot on - she may get fired or sent home etc but she at least stood up for her beliefs*.
		
Click to expand...

Are you trying to win an award from the most ridiculous comments on the forum. Do you seriously think she did that against the wishes of her employers!? Do you seriously think a British Broadcasting company would fire her for sending out a message against discrimination. Do you have any idea how damaging that would be the the broadcasting company?


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Was hilariously petty. I was hoping they'd come to blows. 

Click to expand...

What were they arguing about? I wish they would save these debates until most of us are home from work, for the evening games.


----------



## DaveR (Nov 22, 2022)

Well this just got interesting!


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 22, 2022)

DaveR said:



			Well this just got interesting!
		
Click to expand...

Incredible.

Is the coach of Saudi Arabia that doctor from Embarrassing Bodies, Christian Jessen?


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			What were they arguing about? I wish they would save these debates until most of us are home from work, for the evening games.
		
Click to expand...

Whether it was a penalty or not. So a bit of a rugby tackle albeit not as bad as the one on Maguire. Keane said no and Souness said yes...pretty much told Keane to shut up and listen!


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			What were they arguing about? I wish they would save these debates until most of us are home from work, for the evening games.
		
Click to expand...

Keane said it's not a penalty, Souness said in the football laws it is. Keane said he doesn't care about the law, his opinion is that it's not a penalty. Souness said opinions don't matter. Keane said well I'm paid to be here and give my opinion (about 5 times). Gloriously silly.

And what a goal that was for the Saudis, we've got a game on our hands out of nowhere.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 22, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Whether it was a penalty or not. So a bit of a rugby tackle albeit not as bad as the one on Maguire. Keane said no and Souness said yes...pretty much told Keane to shut up and listen!
		
Click to expand...

Souness has probably been working with Simon Jordan too long. Telling Keane to shut up is not recommended.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Keane said it's not a penalty, Souness said in the football laws it is. Keane said he doesn't care about the law, his opinion is that it's not a penalty. Souness said opinions don't matter. Keane said well I'm paid to be here and give my opinion (about 5 times). Gloriously silly.

And what a goal that was for the Saudis, *we've got a game on our hands out of nowhere*.
		
Click to expand...

There is football happening? Are you sure? No bickering about armbands anymore?

(it would be so funny if they held on)


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 22, 2022)

All I know is that the Saudis will be making themselves very unpopular on various "prediction leagues" and betting coupons.


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 22, 2022)

Good to see the Saudi 11 go off. He's twice let Messi run off him into the box and I'm sure both times he knew exactly what was happening but didn't fancy the responsibility!


----------



## srixon 1 (Nov 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			What were they arguing about? I wish they would save these debates until most of us are home from work, for the evening games.
		
Click to expand...

Working from home has its perks.


----------



## fundy (Nov 22, 2022)

Could be half an hour added time here if its judged like the other games lol


----------



## yandabrown (Nov 22, 2022)

Maybe Iran's ranking oof 20 isn't so daft!


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 22, 2022)

Are we allowed to celebrate if Saudi Arabia beat Argentina or would that be considered sportswashing?


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 22, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Good to see the Saudi 11 go off. He's twice let Messi run off him into the box and I'm sure both times he knew exactly what was happening but didn't fancy the responsibility!
		
Click to expand...

It wouldn’t matter Messi has been one of the worst players on the pitch


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 22, 2022)

Mind boggling how a referee stop’s play for the softest of fouls and when a player nearly gets decapitated he waves play on.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Does anyone have a better recruitment team than Borussia Dortmund? Quite remarkable success rate in buying players, developing and then selling for massive sums.
		
Click to expand...

Seems like the place to go if you’re a young talent.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 22, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Are we allowed to celebrate if Saudi Arabia beat Argentina or would that be considered sportswashing?
		
Click to expand...

We will do it quietly 

On the added time issue. Everyone is loving it but from a practical point of view it will cause mayhem for fans trying to catch buses, trains etc back in the UK if they bring this level of extra time for domestic fixtures. You are looking at 20-25 minutes extra per game. That could be carnage for an 8pm match. Let's hope the message gets through and teams clean up their act.


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 22, 2022)

Games like this are exactly the reason why those who say the so called lesser nations should not be at the World Cup are wrong.

Yes, much of the time they will be uncompetetive and get drubbed, but just on the odd occasion, one will come up with a performance the players can tell their grandkids about...and no footballer should be denied that opportunity.

Simply magical.


----------



## Piece (Nov 22, 2022)

Wow!


----------



## fundy (Nov 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We will do it quietly 

On the added time issue. Everyone is loving it but from a practical point of view it will cause mayhem for fans trying to catch buses, trains etc back in the UK if they bring this level of extra time for domestic fixtures. You are looking at 20-25 minutes extra per game. That could be carnage for an 8pm match. Let's hope the message gets through and teams clean up their act.
		
Click to expand...

The issues more about TV programs overrunning, long time since game going fans were taken into account 

In all seriousness, its doing a great job of highlighting the problem, not so much the solution. Ideally as you say it needs to be eradicated from the game, more likely we see trials on ball in play for an hour or similar


----------



## fundy (Nov 22, 2022)

33/1 pre match and matched at 1000 omn Betfair when behind. Biggest shock in recent world cup history and possibly ever?


----------



## fundy (Nov 22, 2022)

Easy to spot the couple of Newcastle fans in the Saudi end haha. Shirts off lads...............


----------



## Aztecs27 (Nov 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			33/1 pre match and matched at 1000 omn Betfair when behind. Biggest shock in recent world cup history and possibly ever?
		
Click to expand...

Two superb goals too, nothing scrappy or lucky about them.


----------



## Smiffy (Nov 22, 2022)

Cushty


----------



## BrianM (Nov 22, 2022)

Superb result for Saudi Arabia, No easy games 😀😂😂


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			33/1 pre match and matched at 1000 omn Betfair when behind. Biggest shock in recent world cup history and *possibly ever*?
		
Click to expand...

nah....USA 1 England 0 is still the biggest shock.

Senegal 1 France 0 not far behind...this one (Saudi Arabia)possibly of a similar level along with Cameroon beating Argentina in 1990


----------



## fundy (Nov 22, 2022)

Same comms who were saying how important it is to get off to a flying start after England won 6-2 now saying its not that important losing the first game as long as you still qualify lol


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			33/1 pre match and matched at 1000 omn Betfair when behind. Biggest shock in recent world cup history and possibly ever?
		
Click to expand...

Just asked a lad at work what price they were 🤯


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We will do it quietly 

Click to expand...

Hooray!!!!!


----------



## larmen (Nov 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			33/1 pre match and matched at 1000 omn Betfair when behind. Biggest shock in recent world cup history and possibly ever?
		
Click to expand...

I got a £5 free bet which I put on the wrong outsider. Should have backed Saudi Arabia instead of Iran ;-(


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595011441257504769
Who is winning in a fight 😂


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 22, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Mind boggling how a referee stop’s play for the softest of fouls and when a player nearly gets decapitated he waves play on.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed and the keeper was gesticulating for play to stop BUT same keeper had been at it all game feigning injury etc so that's part of the issue with such cheating - boy who cried wolf and all that.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 22, 2022)

Can’t be a***d with Hartson’s inanities…😖

And ITV pay to have him out there?


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 22, 2022)

In first half, Schmeichel made a decent one on one save, where his outstretched arm saved it. Decent save and all that. Hartson called it "possibly the best save he has ever seen"

That may be the exaggeration of the World Cup


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 22, 2022)

If Denmark had one even half-decent striker they'd be a good side.



SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Can’t be a***d with Hartson’s inanities…😖

And ITV pay to have him out there?
		
Click to expand...

First half he proved himself to be the only person involved in football who still doesn't know that the referees are told to keep the flags down until the chance is played out. Embarrassed for him.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 22, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			In first half, Schmeichel made a decent one on one save, where his outstretched arm saved it. Decent save and all that. Hartson called it "possibly the best save he has ever seen"

*That may be the exaggeration of the World Cup*

Click to expand...

Or any World Cup, ever


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			If Denmark had one even half-decent striker they'd be a good side.


First half he proved himself to be the only person involved in football who still doesn't know that the referees are told to keep the flags down until the chance is played out. Embarrassed for him.
		
Click to expand...

I guess he might not be in Qatar…mind you ITV seem to have a bunch of ???? actually there…


----------



## BrianM (Nov 22, 2022)

Didn’t realise Sideshow Bob was Tunisian 😂😂


----------



## fundy (Nov 22, 2022)

whats happened here, refs gone to the screen and not changed his decision


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			whats happened here, refs gone to the screen and not changed his decision 

Click to expand...

Fair play to him, looked like the ball deflected of the defenders body first. Now I wonder what the VAR ref was thinking?

VAR has just expressed monumental surprise that we are in the 7th minute of injury time, even though we were told 5. I suspect he forgot about the VAR check?


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			whats happened here, refs gone to the screen and not changed his decision 

Click to expand...

Saw that and not sure about the rest of his reffing but was impressed he dare to disobey VAR!


----------



## Piece (Nov 22, 2022)

Matty Cash playing for Poland. Well, didn't know that!


----------



## Aztecs27 (Nov 22, 2022)

Piece said:



			Matty Cash playing for Poland. Well, didn't know that! 

Click to expand...

Aye, his grandmother is Polish, I believe.


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 22, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Aye, his grandmother is Polish, I believe.
		
Click to expand...

His mum I think!



Piece said:



			Matty Cash playing for Poland. Well, didn't know that! 

Click to expand...


The Polish Cafu switched a year or so ago, was never going to make the England side lets face it!


----------



## fundy (Nov 22, 2022)

the Polish Cafu


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			the Polish Cafu 

Click to expand...

Oh yeah! 

We used to sing "The Scottish Cafu" about Alan Hutton and when Cash changed national alliance it didn't take long for the fans to bring the song back for Cashy


----------



## sunshine (Nov 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Does anyone have a better recruitment team than Borussia Dortmund? Quite remarkable success rate in buying players, developing and then selling for massive sums.
		
Click to expand...

Recruitment team or marketing team? They’ve done a superb job on jadon bencho


----------



## Aztecs27 (Nov 22, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			His mum I think!




The Polish Cafu switched a year or so ago, was never going to make the England side lets face it!
		
Click to expand...

Yea, I think his mum is "a bit" Polish as in her mum was Polish, but she has never actually lived there....either way, fair play to the lad. Great to see a Forest academy lad in the World Cup (along with Brennan). 

Hope he bags a goal or two.


----------



## Dando (Nov 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			whats happened here, refs gone to the screen and not changed his decision 

Click to expand...


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 22, 2022)

Just seen the Saudis winner 👏
Early contender for goal of the tournament.


----------



## 3offTheTee (Nov 22, 2022)

Wonder what Souness and Keane would think!!!


----------



## fundy (Nov 22, 2022)

If thats a pen why is it not a red card? 

cracking save keeps


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 22, 2022)

sunshine said:



			Recruitment team or marketing team? They’ve done a superb job on jadon bencho
		
Click to expand...

Utd have been a graveyard for young talent in recent years so I wouldn't be too quick to blame Sancho. They courted him for long enough, saw what he could do. Not Dortmund's fault if utd have then messed him up.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			If thats a pen why is it not a red card? 

cracking save keeps
		
Click to expand...

Double jeopardy isn't it?


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 22, 2022)

I know we must not like anything Saudi and especially at the Qatar world cup but what a game earlier against the argies


----------



## fundy (Nov 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Double jeopardy isn't it?
		
Click to expand...


didnt try and play the ball did he?


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Double jeopardy isn't it?
		
Click to expand...

Haven't seen the incident but that only applies if the defender is trying to play the ball. BBC Sport website saying that the defender was pulling the shirt so that possibly should be a red card.


----------



## Red devil (Nov 22, 2022)

Have the Mexicans took over the whole stadium?
There's 1,000's of them and about 50 Poles


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			didnt try and play the ball did he?
		
Click to expand...

The way I saw it two players were tussling and grappling each other, it could even have been a foul by Lewandowski. Would have been stupidly harsh to send the other feller off. I didn't even think it was a pen.


----------



## fundy (Nov 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			The way I saw it two players were tussling and grappling each other, it could even have been a foul by Lewandowski. Would have been stupidly harsh to send the other feller off. I didn't even think it was a pen.
		
Click to expand...


Can argue whether its a pen or not but surely once he decides its a pen hes deemed to have fouled him, without trying to play the ball, he has no choice but to send him off


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			Can argue whether its a pen or not but surely once he decides its a pen hes deemed to have fouled him, without trying to play the ball, he has no choice but to send him off
		
Click to expand...

I mean I think he was attempting to fairly go shoulder to shoulder and they've ended up grabbing each other. He's impeded him perhaps, but I don't think it's tantamount to grabbing someone off the ball and pulling them back. The red should just be for proper 'professional fouls' as they used to call them.


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 22, 2022)

Finally a football match has almost broken out just when I was about to declare Poland Mexico an even bigger borefest than Netherlands Senegal.


----------



## fundy (Nov 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I mean I think he was attempting to fairly go shoulder to shoulder and they've ended up grabbing each other. He's impeded him perhaps, but I don't think it's tantamount to grabbing someone off the ball and pulling them back. The red should just be for proper 'professional fouls' as they used to call them.
		
Click to expand...

so you think he tried to play the ball?

this isnt about what youd like the rule to be (again)


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 22, 2022)

I reckon Poland are one of my least favourite international sides if all. Always strike me of being really really dull


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			didnt try and play the ball did he?
		
Click to expand...

@Orikoru has covered this really but I'd argue he and Lewandoski were doing a typical grab and pull as they were running together. I didn't see it as rugby tackle job.

I do think it is poor and lazy defending, I hate shirt pulling.

@ColchesterFC I see what you / they are saying but I don't think it was that type of situation. Lewandoski wasn't clear and then pulled back, it was side by side stuff.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 22, 2022)

Managed to see the last twenty minutes of the Saudi game and for the most part in that period they looked solid and well drilled and Argentina were simply devoid of ideas to break them down. Wonder if it will inspire the Aussies tonight. If they play like their openers in the cricket then France will be in trouble


----------



## fundy (Nov 22, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



@Orikoru has covered this really but I'd argue he and Lewandoski were doing a typical *grab and pull* as they were running together. I didn't see it as rugby tackle job.

I do think it is poor and lazy defending, I hate shirt pulling.

@ColchesterFC I see what you / they are saying but I don't think it was that type of situation. Lewandoski wasn't clear and then pulled back, it was side by side stuff.
		
Click to expand...

The law states: "Where a player commits an offence against an opponent within their own penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offender is cautioned if the offence was an attempt to play the ball; in all other circumstances (e.g. holding, *pulling, pushing,* no possibility to play the ball etc.) the offending player must be sent off." 

If only we had an ex ref on here to give an opinion


----------



## BrianM (Nov 22, 2022)

Looks a decent atmosphere tonight 😀


----------



## fundy (Nov 22, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Looks a decent atmosphere tonight 😀
		
Click to expand...

we just want a goal, any goal, after the last 2 games.....


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 22, 2022)

When did French shirts go darker? Looks smart though 😎.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			The way I saw it two players were tussling and grappling each other, it could even have been a foul by Lewandowski. Would have been stupidly harsh to send the other feller off. I didn't even think it was a pen.
		
Click to expand...

One of my pet hates.
Strikers always put their arms across defenders chests but once the defender does it they go down.
Happens all the time.
Pen must have been for the shirt pull.???
Very soft imo, considering what happened to Maguire. good to see it’s not just PL VAR that’s crap.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			so you think he tried to play the ball?

this isnt about what youd like the rule to be (again) 

Click to expand...

To be fair if Lewindoski wasn’t fighting with him he would get the ball easy.


----------



## fundy (Nov 22, 2022)

GOALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL 

This game might be more fun now


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 22, 2022)

And so it begins.......


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 22, 2022)

Cracking goal as well. Australia have looked comfortable so far. Signs are good for the rest of the match.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 22, 2022)

After seeing a pretty decent long range shot from behind it struck me that we haven't had the traditional World Cup 'wobbly ball'. Do you think mfrs have learned from previous efforts?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 22, 2022)

Got a feeling that was as good as it'll get. Looks fairly one way traffic now and could get embarrasing for the Aussies (not sure that is a bad thing for the old enemy) if the Les Bleus start to purr along


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 22, 2022)

Garang Kuol will come on and rescue things for the Socceroos.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 22, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Garang Kuol will come on and rescue things for the Socceroos.
		
Click to expand...

Clutching at straws


----------



## fundy (Nov 22, 2022)

Giroud still a wonderful specimen, still doing it at the top level. Fun playing up top with Mbappe for him, hes just so good


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 22, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Clutching at straws
		
Click to expand...

Well he's come on!!!


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			so you think he tried to play the ball?

this isnt about what youd like the rule to be (again) 

Click to expand...

I don't fully know what 'playing the ball' means here to be honest. He certainly trying to get TO the ball before his opponent did. Does that count in the definition?


----------



## fundy (Nov 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I don't fully know what 'playing the ball' means here to be honest. He certainly trying to get TO the ball before his opponent did. Does that count in the definition?
		
Click to expand...

To me trying to play the ball is trying to kick the ball/tackle when committing the foul, dont know if thats correct or not though (can we have the old rules back that we all knew plse lol)


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 22, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Well he's come on!!!
		
Click to expand...

So under no pressure to get or make three goals at least. Think the Aussies have come across a France team with their eye on the prize


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			To me trying to play the ball is trying to kick the ball/tackle when committing the foul, dont know if thats correct or not though (can we have the old rules back that we all knew plse lol)
		
Click to expand...

I felt like he wanted to get to the ball, but Lewa is holding him so he can't, he tries to pull Lewa away so he can get there and the ref gives a pen. I agree with @clubchamp98 - so often it's 50-50 but the ref will penalise the defender.


----------



## Slime (Nov 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			Giroud still a wonderful specimen, still doing it at the top level. Fun playing up top with Mbappe for him, hes just so good
		
Click to expand...

I'd have him as a Ronaldo replacement in a heart beat .............................. great player and ridiculously underrated.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 22, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I felt like he wanted to get to the ball, but Lewa is holding him so he can't, he tries to pull Lewa away so he can get there and the ref gives a pen. I agree with @clubchamp98 - so often it's 50-50 but the ref will penalise the defender.
		
Click to expand...

Only seen it once but it looks to me the first contact is from Lewendoski.
But the shirt pull is just silly from the defender ,you can’t do that now.

Pet hate of mine as imo the first contact is usually from strikers trying to shield the ball from the defender but the  defender can’t just go down.
But as soon as a defender does the same the striker goes down claiming a foul.
Refs need to see a good 50/50 as a tussle , but the shirt pull isn’t usually given in the PL.
Players might struggle with the refs change of tack!
They look like they are letting things go but then pull up for such trivial stuff.


----------



## fundy (Nov 22, 2022)

Slime said:



			I'd have him as a Ronaldo replacement in a heart beat .............................. great player and ridiculously underrated.
		
Click to expand...

still gutted we let him go, and to them of all places lol


----------



## fundy (Nov 22, 2022)

Sounds like Kanes going for a scan on his ankle tomorrow, not optimal news


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			Sounds like Kanes going for a scan on his ankle tomorrow, not optimal news
		
Click to expand...

Don’t worry ,GS can put Dier upfront.


----------



## Slime (Nov 22, 2022)

fundy said:



			Sounds like Kanes going for a scan on his ankle tomorrow, not optimal news
		
Click to expand...

Don't worry, we have Callum Wilson ................................... the Tyneside Giroud!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 22, 2022)

Slime said:



			Don't worry, we have Callum Wilson ................................... the Tyneside Giroud!
		
Click to expand...

Tbh would Kane have passed to Grealish for his goal.?


----------



## IanM (Nov 22, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Tbh would Kane have passed to Grealish for his goal.?
		
Click to expand...

Son's stats suggest that, if appropriate,  he would!


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 22, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Tbh would Kane have passed to Grealish for his goal.?
		
Click to expand...

Maybe Grealish but not Sterling 😉


----------



## fundy (Nov 22, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Don’t worry ,GS can put Dier upfront.
		
Click to expand...




Slime said:



			Don't worry, we have Callum Wilson ................................... the Tyneside Giroud!
		
Click to expand...

As i said, not optimal news


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 22, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Tbh would Kane have passed to Grealish for his goal.?
		
Click to expand...

He would if it was Son rather than Grealish. 😁


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 22, 2022)

£2 accumulator on Saudi Arabia and Australia to win today. Had they come through, I'd have won £550. I was tempted to keep it alive after Oz scored, but Mbappe looked lively beforehand. So, cashed in for just over £90, and France then equalised just after. Happy days


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 22, 2022)

IanM said:



			Son's stats suggest that, if appropriate,  he would!
		
Click to expand...

Son dosnt play for England though.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 23, 2022)

Germany might still be able to wear the OneLove armband, as they are taking FIFA to court. Currently, they won't be wearing it, as FIFA threatened "massive sporting sanctions". However, a special adhoc Court of Arbitration for Sport was set up for World Cup, and has an aim of making a decision within 48 hours


----------



## IanM (Nov 23, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Son dosnt play for England though.
		
Click to expand...

No kidding, but it illustrates Kane is likely to pass the ball in that situation


----------



## Voyager EMH (Nov 23, 2022)

Saudi fans in the stadium. What percentage of them were female, I wonder?
I'm somewhat biased, I admit, but in that game I wanted both sides to lose somehow.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Nov 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			Same comms who were saying how important it is to get off to a flying start after England won 6-2 now saying its not that important losing the first game as long as you still qualify lol
		
Click to expand...

A certain Scottish gentleman that we were listening to last night congratulated the Welsh team and, with a big grin, then informed the largely English audience that we had only played a pub team. He did then admit, with an equally big grin, that he was just a jealous Scot. 🤣🤣👍


----------



## Slime (Nov 23, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			A certain Scottish gentleman that we were listening to last night congratulated the Welsh team and, with a big grin, then informed the largely English audience that we had only played a pub team. He did then admit, with an equally big grin,* that he was just a jealous Scot.* 🤣🤣👍
		
Click to expand...

A Scot who was born and brought up in London.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 23, 2022)

John Hartson didn't realise that VAR would only look at a potential handball if it was in the box (i.e. potential penalty). The main commentator had to explain to him that one of the criteria is that it needs to be in the box for VAR to intervene, and VAR will not act elsewhere on the pitch. He just grunted in surprise. I always wondered how much research co-commentators did before each match. With John Hartson, I actually wonder how much football generally he watches, let alone specific research on the teams he is watching. It is almost like he has not watched a lot of football at all, and his comments are purely based on his memory of being a footballer himself, a time when VAR didn't exist.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 23, 2022)

IanM said:



			No kidding, but it illustrates Kane is likely to pass the ball in that situation 

Click to expand...

I am suprized he passed to Grealish.
Most strikers 5-1 up would not pass that imo.
Most of Kanes assists to son is when he decides he wants to play in midfield , he’s good at it if he has the runners.
They are a formidable pair for spurs.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 23, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			John Hartson didn't realise that VAR would only look at a potential handball if it was in the box (i.e. potential penalty). The main commentator had to explain to him that one of the criteria is that it needs to be in the box for VAR to intervene, and VAR will not act elsewhere on the pitch. He just grunted in surprise. I always wondered how much research co-commentators did before each match. With John Hartson, I actually wonder how much football generally he watches, let alone specific research on the teams he is watching. It is almost like he has not watched a lot of football at all, and his comments are purely based on his memory of being a footballer himself, a time when VAR didn't exist.
		
Click to expand...

Yes he’s there because he’s Welsh.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 23, 2022)

If anyone didn't see it, hopefully you see the highlights. Morocco just had a long range shot, straight at the keeper. We talked about exaggeration from Hartson yesterday. Well, once this shot was hit, Hartson squealed as if Bale had just hit a screamer into the top corner in the final seconds of the World Cup final, to win it. It actually made me jump, I was not expecting it at all. 

Is John Hartson the best Welsh Co-Commentator out there? Do they have any others out there, off the top of my head, like Toshak or Saunders. I'm guessing ITV are having to use him for other non-Welsh games, just to spread things out amongst the co-commentators they have out there.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 23, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			John Hartson didn't realise that VAR would only look at a potential handball if it was in the box (i.e. potential penalty). The main commentator had to explain to him that one of the criteria is that it needs to be in the box for VAR to intervene, and VAR will not act elsewhere on the pitch. He just grunted in surprise. I always wondered how much research co-commentators did before each match. With John Hartson, I actually wonder how much football generally he watches, let alone specific research on the teams he is watching. It is almost like he has not watched a lot of football at all, and his comments are purely based on his memory of being a footballer himself, a time when VAR didn't exist.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. I mentioned it yesterday, but it was a scenario where the player was through in goal, then after he tucked it away (or missed - can't remember now), the flag went up, as they're instructed to do now. Hartson was shouting "how late was that flag?? Have you ever seen a flag as late as that?" As if the last 2 or 3 years has completely passed him by. I felt embarrassed for him really.


----------



## srixon 1 (Nov 23, 2022)

I know it was a few years ago since his cancer treatment, but maybe he has some memory issues caused by the chemotherapy. Common term, chemo brain.


----------



## fundy (Nov 23, 2022)

So is Neuer wearing the one love armband? as it seems the TV companies arent allowing a close up


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			So is Neuer wearing the one love armband? as it seems the TV companies arent allowing a close up
		
Click to expand...

I don't think so, but not been able to confirm yet. In the German team photo, they all had their hands over their mouths, indicating they are being silenced by FIFA (I guess)


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			So is Neuer wearing the one love armband? as it seems the TV companies arent allowing a close up
		
Click to expand...

I understand the German Football Association lost a major supermarket chain as a sponsor, after they had to abandon using the One Love armband, and talks were planned with other sponsors. This probably helped prompt Germany into bringing FIFA to court


----------



## fundy (Nov 23, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I don't think so, but not been able to confirm yet. In the German team photo, they all had their hands over their mouths, indicating they are being silenced by FIFA (I guess)
		
Click to expand...


some pics showing he has it on his undershirt and just hidden under his sleeve


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			some pics showing he has it on his undershirt and just hidden under his sleeve
		
Click to expand...

I reckon we won't see much of him in this match anyway. Unlike the Japanese keeper, who will get a lot of close ups if he keeps making rash decisions like that.


----------



## GB72 (Nov 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			some pics showing he has it on his undershirt and just hidden under his sleeve
		
Click to expand...

Pictures I have just seen show it being checked by officials and it is the FIFA approved one.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 23, 2022)

Lovely to hear McCoist showing the likes of Hartson and co how it should be done on commentary.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Nov 23, 2022)

Great team pic of the German team all holding a hand across their mouths. 👍


----------



## Piece (Nov 23, 2022)

Get in there!


----------



## Piece (Nov 23, 2022)

Double get in there!!!


----------



## srixon 1 (Nov 23, 2022)

Piece said:



			Double get in there!!! 

Click to expand...

😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 23, 2022)

This is fast becoming a World Cup of upsets. Canada to beat Belgium?


----------



## Piece (Nov 23, 2022)

Piece said:



			Double get in there!!! 

Click to expand...

I strongly thought Japan had a chance but didn't have the minerals to put it in the predictions!!


----------



## theoneandonly (Nov 23, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			This is fast becoming a World Cup of upsets. Canada to beat Belgium?
		
Click to expand...

How are these teams ranked so high ! 😉


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 23, 2022)

theoneandonly said:



			How are these teams ranked so high ! 😉
		
Click to expand...

If you want to start that again, Japan are ranked 4 places *lower* than Iran. Work that one out. Haha.


----------



## theoneandonly (Nov 23, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			If you want to start that again, Japan are ranked 4 places *lower* than Iran. Work that one out. Haha.
		
Click to expand...

The Saudis are 51 😱


----------



## Dando (Nov 23, 2022)

Laura Woods on ITV's coverage


----------



## Aztecs27 (Nov 23, 2022)

Dando said:



			Laura Woods on ITV's coverage 

Click to expand...

Shame about Eni Eluko...she is the absolute worst Football pundit I've ever seen.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Nov 23, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Shame about Eni Eluko...she is the absolute worst Football pundit I've ever seen.
		
Click to expand...

I’m sorry but she’s not that good.


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 23, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Shame about Eni Eluko...she is the absolute worst Football pundit I've ever seen.
		
Click to expand...

In the words of Mourinho....."If I speak, I'm in big trouble..."


----------



## Aztecs27 (Nov 23, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			I’m sorry but she’s not that good.
		
Click to expand...

hahaha
she sounds like a really delightful professional too


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 23, 2022)

Dando said:



			Laura Woods on ITV's coverage 

Click to expand...

Aside from being easy on the eye, she seems like one of the much better presenters I've seen at this World Cup so far. Very easy-going manner of chatting to the guests and brings a good sense of humour to it.


----------



## Piece (Nov 23, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			I’m sorry but she’s not that good.
		
Click to expand...

Yes. Double Yes.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 23, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			This is fast becoming a World Cup of upsets. Canada to beat Belgium?
		
Click to expand...

I had a couple of quid on Costa Rica 🤦‍♂️😂


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 23, 2022)

Well Spain look a bit good. Then again Costa Rica were rubbish


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 23, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			I had a couple of quid on Costa Rica 🤦‍♂️😂
		
Click to expand...

This went well


----------



## larmen (Nov 23, 2022)

Does it feel like a lot of injured players at the World Cup? Are the conditions harder, or is it coming out if the season so quickly?


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 23, 2022)

Just given an offside when it was the defender who kicked the ball to the player “offside”.
Has the law changed?
no one has mentioned it commentary wise?


----------



## fundy (Nov 23, 2022)

hows that offside, belgium player passes to the man in offside position

canada all over belgium


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			hows that offside, belgium player passes to the man in offside position

canada all over belgium
		
Click to expand...

beat me to it,!


----------



## HowlingGale (Nov 23, 2022)

🤣 Canadian fans shouting 'V.A.R'. Brilliant!


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 23, 2022)

Stood on his foot! VAR blind?


----------



## fundy (Nov 23, 2022)

HowlingGale said:



			🤣 Canadian fans shouting 'V.A.R'. Brilliant!
		
Click to expand...

VAR refusing to answer boooooooo

1 penalty limit tonight it seems


----------



## GreiginFife (Nov 23, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Just given an offside when it was the defender who kicked the ball to the player “offside”.
Has the law changed?
no one has mentioned it commentary wise?
		
Click to expand...

This is the same commentary team that never mentioned the several Canadian players screaming for handball and then sounded surprised that it was a penalty. 

Jermaine Jenas is an absolute plank. Apparently Canada are taking one too many touches, one too many passes but they are rushing it at the same time.


----------



## HowlingGale (Nov 23, 2022)

Yeah. Absolute stonewaller. How's that not a penalty?


----------



## GreiginFife (Nov 23, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Stood on his foot! VAR blind?
		
Click to expand...

Absolute stonewaller. Barged through the back of him clearly taking the striker down. Shocking decision.


----------



## srixon 1 (Nov 23, 2022)

Canada not out of this yet.


----------



## GreiginFife (Nov 23, 2022)

Canada are being robbed here.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 23, 2022)

How are Belgium playing this badly. They can't put 2 passes together.  (Yes, I know they are winning but even so......)

Canada are just missing a striker.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How are Belgium playing this badly. They can't put 2 passes together.  (Yes, I know they are winning but even so......)

Canada are just missing a striker.
		
Click to expand...

It's certainly been a weird start to the world cup


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 23, 2022)

A good team would tear this Belgium defence apart.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 23, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			A good team would tear this Belgium defence apart.
		
Click to expand...

It's a very average defence

5 years ago some of the best around but that was 5 years ago


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 23, 2022)

I think Canada win the prize for the worst finishers at the World Cup


----------



## IanM (Nov 23, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I think Canada win the prize for the worst finishers at the World Cup
		
Click to expand...

Possibly,  but they've surprised many this evening


----------



## Piece (Nov 23, 2022)

Well played Canada, didn't get their rewards tonight.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 23, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			A good team would tear this Belgium defence apart.
		
Click to expand...

They did it, but they just couldn’t finish. Shame really, played some good stuff.


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 23, 2022)

fundy said:



			hows that offside, belgium player passes to the man in offside position

canada all over belgium
		
Click to expand...

There was some idiot on Radio 5 this morning saying it was interesting to see how all the different officials from around the world apply the rules in different ways. No, they should all be applying the rules in exactly the same way 🙈


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 23, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How are Belgium playing this badly. They can't put 2 passes together.  (Yes, I know they are winning but even so......)

Canada are just missing a striker.
		
Click to expand...

Belgium have peaked, wasted their best years under a clueless manager in Martinez. The side is full of past it defenders and has been midfielders like Witsel and Hazard. They rely on Courtois, KDB and Lukaku. Still experienced and will get better if Lukaku returns firing but I can't see them doing much.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 23, 2022)

IanM said:



			Possibly,  but they've surprised many this evening
		
Click to expand...

Indeed, I was very impressed with the attacking play, until the final shot.

DeBruyne also surprised me, the other way. Very poor


----------



## HomecountiesJohn (Nov 23, 2022)

A fine response from Germany to FIFA and the Qatari government, it's a shame they couldn't follow it up with a convincing win.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 24, 2022)

De Bruyne was given Man of the Match last night. In fairness, when interviewed after he said 

"I do not know why I won man of the match, maybe because of my name.  "

He definitely has a point. I'm sure the sponsors of the Budweiser Player of the Match trophy would much rather have De Bruyne holding the trophy (which looks bigger than the World Cup itself) than any other player on the pitch.


----------



## D-S (Nov 24, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Indeed, I was very impressed with the attacking play, until the final shot.

DeBruyne also surprised me, the other way. Very poor
		
Click to expand...

He did get Man of the Match though.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 24, 2022)

D-S said:



			He did get Man of the Match though.
		
Click to expand...

Indeed, I'm guessing you typed as I was posting my previous post  ?


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 24, 2022)

Belguim looked a bit meh last night, i know he scored the winner but i cant believe Batshuayi is starting ahead of European Cup winning  Lord Divock Origi.


----------



## PieMan (Nov 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Belguim looked a bit meh last night, i know he scored the winner but i cant believe Batshuayi is starting ahead of European Cup winning  Lord Divock Origi.
		
Click to expand...


Yep they were bad, especially at the back. Looks like KdB has stayed at home in Cheshire and sent his crap identical twin brother to Qatar!!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Belguim looked a bit meh last night, i know he scored the winner but i cant believe Batshuayi is starting ahead of European Cup winning  Lord Divock Origi.
		
Click to expand...

I'd have the kit man ahead of Batshuayi based on last night. Touch of a camel, awful. Mind, I'm not sure any Belgian player came out of that with any credit.

In terms of Origi, sadly for Belgium they wont be facing Everton in the World Cup, hence why he stays on the bench


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd have the kit man ahead of Batshuayi based on last night. Touch of a camel, awful. Mind, I'm not sure any Belgian player came out of that with any credit.

In terms of Origi, sadly for Belgium they wont be facing Everton in the World Cup, hence why he stays on the bench 

Click to expand...

Batshuayi taking the place of Lukaku would be like us missing Kane and putting in Dominic Solanke.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd have the kit man ahead of Batshuayi based on last night. Touch of a camel, awful. Mind, I'm not sure any Belgian player came out of that with any credit.

In terms of Origi, sadly for Belgium they wont be facing Everton in the World Cup, hence why he stays on the bench 

Click to expand...

But, they may face Pickford...


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 24, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			But, they may face Pickford...
		
Click to expand...

Bring him on the last 5 mintues then


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 24, 2022)

Has anyone seen on Twitter the state of the Japanese changing room after their match with Germany yesterday. Not many teams would've left it in that state.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 24, 2022)

And even the fans get involved......


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 24, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Has anyone seen on Twitter the state of the Japanese changing room after their match with Germany yesterday. Not many teams would've left it in that state.

View attachment 45322

Click to expand...

Fans even stayed to clean up the stadium

Such a great and respectful country. Would love to see them beat Costa Rica and qualify for the Knock outs!


----------



## DaveR (Nov 24, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Fans even stayed to clean up the stadium

Such a great and respectful country.
		
Click to expand...

Oh how I would love us Brits to show the same attitude and respect!


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 24, 2022)

DaveR said:



			Oh how I would love us Brits to show the same attitude and respect!
		
Click to expand...

Same! A lot of nations could learn from their examples.


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 24, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Batshuayi taking the place of Lukaku would be like us missing Kane and putting in Dominic Solanke.
		
Click to expand...

Lukaku is injured so irrelevant atm.
He did score the winner with a good strike,and more importantly 3 points.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Belguim looked a bit meh last night, i know he scored the winner but i cant believe Batshuayi is starting ahead of European Cup winning  Lord Divock Origi.
		
Click to expand...

Lord Origi is not even in the squad 😲


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 24, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lord Origi is not even in the squad 😲
		
Click to expand...

Is he getting a game at Milan? I'm not sure it is working out there for him.


----------



## fundy (Nov 24, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Is he getting a game at Milan? I'm not sure it is working out there for him.
		
Click to expand...

yeah hes played a fair bit lately, not scored many goals though


----------



## fundy (Nov 24, 2022)

Andros Townsend a decent upgrade in the comm box


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 24, 2022)

Not watching the game but chatting to mates about how half the Cameroon team seem to have been born in France. Then they go and concede a goal to a feller who was born in Cameroon!


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 24, 2022)

On that note, it's ridiculous how many Frenchmen are actually playing in this World Cup...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592745946571739136


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 24, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			On that note, it's ridiculous how many Frenchmen are actually playing in this World Cup...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592745946571739136

Click to expand...

That English Wales team looks bang average 🤣


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 24, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			And even the fans get involved......

View attachment 45323

Click to expand...

English fans often do this. They simply go a step further, forget the litter and go straight to removing the seats.


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 24, 2022)

I’d mark Suarez a 1 out of 10
By the amount of movement, he did well to make it on the pitch let alone play


----------



## fundy (Nov 24, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			I’d mark Suarez a 1 out of 10
By the amount of movement, he did well to make it on the pitch let alone play
		
Click to expand...


and still rates higher than Danny Murphy in the comms box


----------



## Smiffy (Nov 24, 2022)

I was hoping Korea were going to come out like Whippets...


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			and still rates higher than Danny Murphy in the comms box 

Click to expand...

He can't understand why a ball that hits the crossbar (and doesn't go in) is not classed as a shot on target.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Nov 24, 2022)

fundy said:



			and still rates higher than Danny Murphy in the comms box 

Click to expand...

Indeed; the definition of hell would be Danny Murphy and Eni Aluko on the same punditry team. 🤢🤢🤮


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 24, 2022)

So far I’ve not been overly impressed by many of the bigger teams.
England,Spain & France best upto now.
Let’s see what Brazil have tonight.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 24, 2022)

🤣🤣🤣🤣Joao Felix


----------



## fundy (Nov 24, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			🤣🤣🤣🤣Jaoa Felix
		
Click to expand...

utterly pathetic, never guess which club he plays for lol


----------



## fundy (Nov 24, 2022)

And Ronaldo lol


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 24, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			So far I’ve not been overly impressed by many of the bigger teams.
England,Spain & France best upto now.
Let’s see what Brazil have tonight.
		
Click to expand...

yes, I know what you mean, though for me jury still out on the first😳- well, it was Iran. If it had been Canada…well, dunno
So far,  For entertainment though, I wouldn’t mind the semi finalists being Saudi, Canada, Japan and Korea.😀. The free spirit way they play is great to watch.


----------



## srixon 1 (Nov 24, 2022)

Not a penalty. Ronaldo dived. W⚓️


----------



## Imurg (Nov 24, 2022)

Penalty....


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 24, 2022)

srixon 1 said:



			Not a penalty. Ronaldo dived. W⚓️
		
Click to expand...

Dived? Two players flying in for ball, and the defender out strengthed him. Hardly a dive, but I agree not a penalty. 

If a player falls over, it is not merely a single choice between a foul or a dive.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 24, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Dived? Two players flying in for ball, and the defender out strengthed him. Hardly a dive, but I agree not a penalty.

If a player falls over, it is not merely a single choice between a foul or a dive.
		
Click to expand...

Ronaldo gets the merest touch then bumped over…pen…


----------



## Imurg (Nov 24, 2022)

Justice..


----------



## Blue in Munich (Nov 24, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Justice..
		
Click to expand...

Not really, Ghana are currently being robbed of a win.


----------



## RichA (Nov 24, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Dived? Two players flying in for ball, and the defender out strengthed him. Hardly a dive, but I agree not a penalty.

If a player falls over, it is not merely a single choice between a foul or a dive.
		
Click to expand...

Their feet touched side-to-side and Ronaldo threw his legs out behind him. That would be your classic dive.
Sadly academic now.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 24, 2022)

I have Costa as my keeper in my fantasy team. I'm prepared to lose big points if Ghana can get another 😄. Portugal really are a horrible team.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Nov 24, 2022)

RichA said:



			Their feet touched side-to-side and Ronaldo threw his legs out behind him. That would be your classic dive.
*Sadly academic now.*

Click to expand...

Maybe not...


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 24, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			yes, I know what you mean, though for me jury still out on the first😳- well, it was Iran. If it had been Canada…well, dunno
So far,  For entertainment though, I wouldn’t mind the semi finalists being Saudi, Canada, Japan and Korea.😀. The free spirit way they play is great to watch.
		
Click to expand...

You can only beat what’s in front of you & it was an impressive performance imo.
I’m not getting excited as like you said it was only Iran.
Tbf we should be walking the group.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2022)

Bit of mental second half 

Ghana nearly got the point they prob deserved 

Never a penalty in a millions years


----------



## Slime (Nov 24, 2022)

Here's hoping Neymar has a shocker, can't stand the bloke.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 24, 2022)

Another co-commentary faux pas from Keown there. Serbian player kicked his own leg and fell over, keown’s response is “ yeah definite foul”🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Even after all these, some people are still wanting ex players in the VAR room 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2022)

Brazil not great going forward , just seem to lack any real cohesion, link up and Serbia closing the space well


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 24, 2022)

I


Slime said:



			Here's hoping Neymar has a shocker, can't stand the bloke.
		
Click to expand...

I’ve backed him for golden boot,so nailed on not to score.


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 24, 2022)

RichA said:



			Their feet touched side-to-side and Ronaldo threw his legs out behind him. That would be your classic dive.
Sadly academic now.
		
Click to expand...

It was a Kane/Salah special, instigate the contact by throwing out your leg.


----------



## Imurg (Nov 24, 2022)

Slime said:



			Here's hoping Neymar has a shocker, can't stand the bloke.
		
Click to expand...

Going to plan at the moment..


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 24, 2022)

Wow 🤯👏


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 24, 2022)

Some squad Brazil have.
Richarlison didn’t have a sniff then 2 very good goals.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 24, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Some squad Brazil have.
Richarlison didn’t have a sniff then 2 very good goals.
		
Click to expand...

Been good to watch in 2nd half.


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 24, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Been good to watch in 2nd half.
		
Click to expand...

Yes 
Can only see them getting better


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 25, 2022)

After seeing all the teams play now I'm more convinced than ever that football could come home.


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 25, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			After seeing all the teams play now I'm more convinced than ever that football could come home.
		
Click to expand...

I’ve not seen all the games but with the exception of Brazil, France and England the football has been poor. 

I’ve not got your confidence about England yet but potentially with the amount of young talent we have we could do well. 

My fear is that when and if we come up against a decent side Southgate will return to type and play a more negative style


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 25, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			I’ve not seen all the games but with the exception of Brazil, France and England the football has been poor.

I’ve not got your confidence about England yet but potentially with the amount o*f young talent *we have we could do well.

*My fear is that when and if we come up against a decent side Southgate will return to type and play a more negative style*

Click to expand...

He will - he shouldn't - but we know Gareth by now.

Our talent from the midfield going forward is pretty insane. When you consider the depth we brought off the bench against Iran, its pretty ridiculous how much attacking talent we have. Id argue better in depth than any nation at the World Cup. 

Don't forget about Spain!


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			I’ve not seen all the games but with the exception of Brazil, France and England the football has been poor.

I’ve not got your confidence about England yet but potentially with the amount of young talent we have we could do well.

My fear is that when and if we come up against a decent side Southgate will return to type and play a more negative style
		
Click to expand...

I'd give Spain some credit as well. Those 4 have probably been the stand out teams so far. Argentina will be under pressure now, and Germany will be seriously worried, given they still have to play Spain on Sunday evening and pretty much need to win (especially if Japan get a result in the morning)


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 25, 2022)

This is a shocking game 
Absolutely no quality whatsoever 
England should destroy Wales


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

Over the last 8-10 years, I always enjoyed watching Wales. Mainly due to the magic factor of Gareth Bale, who in his prime was unbelievable. Opposition defenders must have dreaded it.

Without prime Bale though, Wales are pretty shocking. Not a good watch at all. I'm still hoping Bale can produce a glimpse of magic at some point, but I fear he is nowhere near match fit, and pretty much on his very last legs as a pro footballer.


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 25, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			This is a shocking game
Absolutely no quality whatsoever
England should destroy Wales
		
Click to expand...

Maybe Iran are better than what we thought and just used the wrong tactics against England? 

Really looking forward to Iran v. USA II now.


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 25, 2022)

Wales were Bale and Ramsey, now both have lost their legs you can see they aren't anything to worry about. The fact they even qualified is a miracle.

If they keep it tight, bring James on to run at Iran I can see them grabbing something from a set piece.


----------



## pendodave (Nov 25, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			This is a shocking game
Absolutely no quality whatsoever
England should destroy Wales
		
Click to expand...

I'm quite enjoying it tbh.
At least they both seen to be trying to win, which makes up for a lot. 
How Iran aren't winning though...


----------



## Aztecs27 (Nov 25, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Wales were Bale and Ramsey, now both have lost their legs you can see they aren't anything to worry about. The fact they even qualified is a miracle.

If they keep it tight, bring James on to run at Iran I can see them grabbing something from a set piece.
		
Click to expand...

James and Johnson on, hopefully gives them something in the final 3rd, but it's not looking good. They look like a pub team and should be about 4 goals down. 
Welsh fans were giving it the biggun the other day when we beat Iran, too "Calm down it's only Iran"....didn't age well, did it.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 25, 2022)

Only seen last five minutes. Wales can’t pass water, let alone a ball.


----------



## Imurg (Nov 25, 2022)

Wales will do well to get away with a point here....


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 25, 2022)

Are Wales even a League 1 standard team? 

At least they have their cup final to look forward to. 
Maybe they can win the “We Beat England 0-0 Cup” like the Jocks did in the Euros.


----------



## Aztecs27 (Nov 25, 2022)

Haha! Christ on a bike Hennessey


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 25, 2022)

Confident we batter wales - they don't even have their goalkeeper now


----------



## Imurg (Nov 25, 2022)

Fair I'd say......


----------



## 3offTheTee (Nov 25, 2022)

Wales will take 0-0 now


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 25, 2022)

Come on Iran, do them!!!


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

For those mocking Iran in the World Rankings, what do we think of Welsh position of 19th in the world?


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 25, 2022)

Well, VAR doesn’t recognize that football is a contact sport. Two men going for the ball.
goalie is going to kick ball out of stadium. ( should be judged in real time ).

red card?  Nah.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Well, VAR doesn’t recognize that football is a contact sport. Two men going for the ball.
goalie is going to kick ball out of stadium. ( should be judged in real time ).

red card?  Nah.
		
Click to expand...

Of course it is a red card. It was a foul and a goal scoring opportunity.  It is a basic rule of the game.


----------



## pendodave (Nov 25, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Well, VAR doesn’t recognize that football is a contact sport. Two men going for the ball.
goalie is going to kick ball out of stadium. ( should be judged in real time ).

red card?  Nah.
		
Click to expand...

Really??
He could have got 2 reds for that.


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Of course it is a red card. It was a foul and a goal scoring opportunity.  It is a basic rule of the game.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not even sure the NFL would allow that challenge


----------



## Aztecs27 (Nov 25, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Well, VAR doesn’t recognize that football is a contact sport. Two men going for the ball.
goalie is going to kick ball out of stadium. ( should be judged in real time ).

red card?  Nah.
		
Click to expand...

What?


----------



## Imurg (Nov 25, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I'm not even sure the NFL would allow that challenge 

Click to expand...

Aussie Rules might


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			For those mocking Iran in the World Rankings, what do we think of Welsh position of 19th in the world?
		
Click to expand...

OWGR  Sorry I mean Fifa rankings are a mess! 

Maybe its just hard to rank pro sports! Very subjective stuff.


----------



## fundy (Nov 25, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Aussie Rules might

Click to expand...

Highlight reel stuff for the UFC


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 25, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Aussie Rules might

Click to expand...

Aussie Prison rules


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 25, 2022)

😂


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 25, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Well, VAR doesn’t recognize that football is a contact sport. Two men going for the ball.
goalie is going to kick ball out of stadium. ( should be judged in real time ).

red card?  Nah.
		
Click to expand...

Not a red card? 

Someone has been on the hard stuff already.


----------



## 3offTheTee (Nov 25, 2022)

Oh dear!


----------



## fundy (Nov 25, 2022)

Decent hit that, hard to argue Iran deserved it


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 25, 2022)

Shame


----------



## Imurg (Nov 25, 2022)

First piece of real quality in the game...
Deserved.


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 25, 2022)

Tara Wales


----------



## Dando (Nov 25, 2022)

Am I a bad person for laughing?


----------



## Dando (Nov 25, 2022)

I’ve wet myself now


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 25, 2022)

Dando said:



			Am I a bad person for laughing?
		
Click to expand...

You are not the only one if you are!


----------



## Imurg (Nov 25, 2022)

Where was this finishing earlier in the game..?


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 25, 2022)

Bale’s been the talisman now unfortunately he’s very ordinary.
They deserved nothing and got nothing.
If England really want too they can batter Wales


----------



## Imurg (Nov 25, 2022)

Doubt the Iranians will get a Roller each....


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

I'm sure they'll still have their open bus parade if they draw 0-0 with England.

Wales have embarrassed themselves in this tournament really. Did well to qualify, but they'll have their heads hung low when they get home, unless the miraculous happens.


----------



## Dando (Nov 25, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Doubt the Iranians will get a Roller each....

Click to expand...

They’ll get A goat and 2 camels


----------



## pendodave (Nov 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm sure they'll still have their open bus parade if they draw 0-0 with England.

Wales have embarrassed themselves in this tournament really. Did well to qualify, but they'll have their heads hung low when they get home, unless the miraculous happens.
		
Click to expand...

Tbf, they've tried their best, but not really been up to much.
No particular shame in that.  It wasn't like they were the Scots trotting off to Argentina in '78 thinking they were going to win it....


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 25, 2022)

I’m just creasing myself sat here 😂😂😂


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 25, 2022)

Well, you can tell I played my football in the 50s and 60s😂.  Now you’re only allowed to touch ‘em if you use your hands to pull opponents down! That ok,eh?


----------



## Blue in Munich (Nov 25, 2022)

Dando said:



			Am I a bad person for laughing?
		
Click to expand...

Tuesday night at the O2 Rod Stewart said how well the Welsh had done and had a bit of banter with the English fans about only beating a pub team.

I’d love to be there again tonight to hear what he has to say about what the pub team did to Wales… 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## theoneandonly (Nov 25, 2022)

I thought the ref wasnt the best, so many  poor tackles from the Iranians too that should have been bookings.
I'd have much rather seen a Wales win than the horrid nation that is Iran.


----------



## Piece (Nov 25, 2022)

Best team won that.


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 25, 2022)

Just seen the red card “tackle” 🤕 almost took his chin off 😳


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 25, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I’m just creasing myself sat here 😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Could still happen. If USA beat England tonight and Iran v USA ends in a draw a Wales win over England would knock England out of the World Cup.

EDIT - If USA beat England tonight any result apart from a USA win against Iran, coupled with a Wales win over England would knock England out.


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 25, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Could still happen. If USA beat England tonight and Iran v USA ends in a draw a Wales win over England would knock England out of the World Cup
		
Click to expand...

Imagine that, it would be so crazy I would actually have a chuckle to myself.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 25, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Well, you can tell I played my football in the 50s and 60s😂.  Now you’re only allowed to touch ‘em if you use your hands to pull opponents down! That ok,eh?
		
Click to expand...

That was a red card in any era


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 25, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Could still happen. If USA beat England tonight and Iran v USA ends in a draw a Wales win over England would knock England out of the World Cup
		
Click to expand...

Oh come off it


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			On that note, it's ridiculous how many Frenchmen are actually playing in this World Cup...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592745946571739136

Click to expand...

Looks like the Welsh have 10 players who were not born in Wales, so I forgive them if they don't quite have that passion to get the result, when the going gets tough. Marginal gains


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 25, 2022)

Ah Wales…how late…how late… but Iran…we Scots know well about playing Iran and thinking a win was, if not a certainty, on the cards if the team played as it could.  But back then Scotland didn’t…and sadly today neither really did Wales.  But there’s always the England scalp to go hunting for.👍


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Could still happen. If USA beat England tonight and Iran v USA ends in a draw a Wales win over England would knock England out of the World Cup.

EDIT - If USA beat England tonight any result apart from a USA win against Iran, coupled with a Wales win over England would knock England out.
		
Click to expand...

I think the Welsh would be hoping for England to thrash USA? It then means that England will not necessarily be giving 100% in the game against Wales. If Wales win that, they end up on 4 points. If USA then get a draw or win against Iran, then Wales go through on goal difference (i.e. either USA 2 points, Iran 4 points; or USA 4 points, Iran 3 points)?


----------



## IanM (Nov 25, 2022)

I'm saying nowt till we've played the USA


----------



## Blue in Munich (Nov 25, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Oh come off it 

Click to expand...

This is just the sort of game in which Pulisic might actually turn up…


----------



## Aztecs27 (Nov 25, 2022)

IanM said:



			I'm saying nowt till we've played the USA
		
Click to expand...

Indeed. It would be very England to let the US steam roll us. We've got the quality to absolutely batter them but whether w do or not is another matter.


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 25, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			This is just the sort of game in which Pulisic might actually turn up…
		
Click to expand...

If he's all we've got to worry about, I'm not worried at all! 

Let them deal with Saka, Kane and Sterling for 60 mins then throw in Grealish, Foden and Rashford/ Wilson for fresh legs. Easy W and into the knockouts we go


----------



## Norrin Radd (Nov 25, 2022)

It really shows that the people of Qatar wanted the world cup, just look at the empty seats in today's game with Senegal, if the Qatar public were football oriented they would have those seats full. But no it's just the corrupted FIFA and qatari fa paying for the priveledge of hosting .
 Really really poor


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'd give Spain some credit as well. Those 4 have probably been the stand out teams so far. Argentina will be under pressure now, and Germany will be seriously worried, given they still have to play Spain on Sunday evening and pretty much need to win (especially if Japan get a result in the morning)
		
Click to expand...

Never saw any of the Spain game but yes they must have played well and that score line suggests they must be in with a chance.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

Norrin Radd said:



			It really shows that the people of Qatar wanted the world cup, just look at the empty seats in today's game with Senegal, if the Qatar public were football oriented they would have those seats full. But no it's just the corrupted FIFA and qatari fa paying for the priveledge of hosting .
Really really poor
		
Click to expand...

First game, so far, I really can't be bothered with. I've just put it on, muted, in background. Are you sure they are empty seats? It looked like there were loads of empty white seats at first glance. But then, when I looked more closely, it is just that loads of the fans are wearing their traditional white robes and headwear


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 25, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That was a red card in any era
		
Click to expand...

l saw Tommy Smith at Anfield😂😂. (Did you?)


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			l saw Tommy Smith at Anfield😂😂. (Did you?)
		
Click to expand...

Did he never commit a foul then?


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Did he never commit a foul then? 

Click to expand...

not many. Killed a few, mind, but nothing awarded😂😂😂


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

Just started watching the Qatar game, and Qatar looked to have a great shout for a penalty (only saw the last few highlights). Is this another VAR shocker (or lack of VAR)?


----------



## Aztecs27 (Nov 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			First game, so far, I really can't be bothered with. I've just put it on, muted, in background. Are you sure they are empty seats? It looked like there were loads of empty white seats at first glance. But then, when I looked more closely, it is just that loads of the fans are wearing their traditional white robes and headwear
		
Click to expand...

was just thinking this! Pretty sure there's a lot of men in traditional robes etc.


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 25, 2022)

Go on Senegal!

Qatar are so poor


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Just started watching the Qatar game, and Qatar looked to have a great shout for a penalty (only saw the last few highlights). Is this another VAR shocker (or lack of VAR)?
		
Click to expand...

Tried to con the ref instead of getting his shot off.
Looking for the pen.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Just started watching the Qatar game, and Qatar looked to have a great shout for a penalty (only saw the last few highlights). Is this another VAR shocker (or lack of VAR)?
		
Click to expand...

No , fault lays with the ref. That was a pen. Didn’t go to the VAR, which surprised me.
Who decides something goes to VAR?  The ref or the VAR team?


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 25, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Tried to con the ref instead of getting his shot off.
Looking for the pen.
		
Click to expand...

Agree, looking for it. But, he did “earn” it, as they say these days. He was fouled.


----------



## Aztecs27 (Nov 25, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Go on Senegal!

Qatar are so poor 

Click to expand...

Better or worse than Wales?


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			No , fault lays with the ref. That was a pen. Didn’t go to the VAR, which surprised me.
Who decides something goes to VAR?  The ref or the VAR team?
		
Click to expand...

The VAR. The whole point of VAR is to alert the referee, if the referee has missed something.


----------



## 3offTheTee (Nov 25, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Could still happen. If USA beat England tonight and Iran v USA ends in a draw a Wales win over England would knock England out of the World Cup.

EDIT - If USA beat England tonight any result apart from a USA win against Iran, coupled with a Wales win over England would knock England out.
		
Click to expand...

England 1/66 to qualify. USA and Iran around evens. wales around 14/1. Not many hard up bookies! Your choice where to put your money but don’t tell Mrs Colch!


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 25, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Better or worse than Wales?
		
Click to expand...

Now there's a debate! 

Probably worse than Wales... Ill give them that


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Tried to con the ref instead of getting his shot off.
Looking for the pen.
		
Click to expand...

Just seen it again.

Not sure what you mean by "con" the referee? He didn't throw himself over, the opponent genuinely brought him down.

There is debate about him "looking" for the penalty, by moving his foot across the ball, between the ball and the challenge of the opponent. However, is that not just a basic football move? When an opponent is coming to challenge for the ball, it is natural to try and get your body between them and the ball so they can't get to it. If they then go through you, it is a foul. I can't imagine any player is ever coached to keep a nice open gap for the opponent to get their foot on the ball?


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The VAR. The whole point of VAR is to alert the referee, if the referee has missed something.
		
Click to expand...

Yes.  Asked because in Rugby league, it’s the other way round.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Yes.  Asked because in Rugby league, it’s the other way round.
		
Click to expand...

How does the ref know to ask for review, if he hasn't seen something and therefore has no idea he has missed anything?

Is it easier in Rugby League, because there are more natural stoppages? If that is the case, I can imagine it might be easy for the rugby referee to have a quick word or 2 to the VAR guy during every break, just in case they need to take it further. Probably more difficult in football, where the ball can be put immediately back in play once it goes out.


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 25, 2022)

Class header to make it 2-0

Qatar manager does not look like a happy man...


----------



## Norrin Radd (Nov 25, 2022)

Re the next world cup, it is being hosted by three countries. Now my question is, which of the three countries are going to be given automatic qualification, as if all three get it then surely that is taking away two teams that would otherwise have qualified on their results. 
 I don't know the answer I'm just wondering if anyone does and can let me and many more know.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

Norrin Radd said:



			Re the next world cup, it is being hosted by three countries. Now my question is, which of the three countries are going to be given automatic qualification, as if all three get it then surely that is taking away two teams that would otherwise have qualified on their results.
I don't know the answer I'm just wondering if anyone does and can let me and many more know.
		
Click to expand...

No idea. Maybe they'll have one team of All Stars, made up of Canadian, American and Mexican players. Sounds like the sort of thing they would love.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 25, 2022)

Norrin Radd said:



			Re the next world cup, it is being hosted by three countries. Now my question is, which of the three countries are going to be given automatic qualification, as if all three get it then surely that is taking away two teams that would otherwise have qualified on their results.
I don't know the answer I'm just wondering if anyone does and can let me and many more know.
		
Click to expand...

All three get entry as hosts in the same way as Japan and South Korea got entry when they jointly hosted the World Cup

It’s also being extended to 48 teams so no one will miss out


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

Norrin Radd said:



			Re the next world cup, it is being hosted by three countries. Now my question is, which of the three countries are going to be given automatic qualification, as if all three get it then surely that is taking away two teams that would otherwise have qualified on their results.
I don't know the answer I'm just wondering if anyone does and can let me and many more know.
		
Click to expand...

Note, Japan and South Korea both automatically qualified for the 2002 World Cup. 

At this stage, the automatic qualifiers for the 2026 have not been confirmed (so I read anyway). Although I'd expect all 3 to qualify automatically.


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 25, 2022)

QATAR HAVE SCORED A GOAL!


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All three get entry as hosts in the same way as Japan and South Korea got entry when they jointly hosted the World Cup

*It’s also being extended to 48 teams so no one will miss out*

Click to expand...

FIFA cashing in on the football gravy train


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			FIFA cashing in on the football gravy train
		
Click to expand...

Big time. 

Some of the games so far have been pretty laughable - and its only going to get worse!


----------



## Smiffy (Nov 25, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All three get entry as hosts in the same way as Japan and South Korea got entry when they jointly hosted the World Cup
It’s also being extended to 48 teams so no one will miss out
		
Click to expand...

Could we not get Great Britain being awarded it then, instead of England.
It would be delightful to get Scotland involved again.


----------



## Imurg (Nov 25, 2022)

Smiffy said:



			Could we not get Great Britain being awarded it then, instead of England.
It would be delightful to get Scotland involved again.
		
Click to expand...

At least they wouldn't have far to go home.....


----------



## Smiffy (Nov 25, 2022)

Imurg said:



			At least they wouldn't have far to go home.....
		
Click to expand...

That is an added bonus of course.


----------



## Dando (Nov 25, 2022)

Smiffy said:



			Could we not get Great Britain being awarded it then, instead of England.
It would be delightful to get Scotland involved again.
		
Click to expand...

they can be in charge of the half time oranges although they'd probably manage to lose those as well


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 25, 2022)

Smiffy said:



			Could we not get Great Britain being awarded it then, instead of England.
It would be delightful to get Scotland involved again.
		
Click to expand...

I think that’s the idea with a joint bid - England Wales and Scotland


----------



## Smiffy (Nov 25, 2022)

Seriously, I have missed all the tartan and ginger.
And of course the white, pasty bodies with red, sunburnt bits.
And the comedy and pathos that was Scottish goalkeepers.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

Smiffy said:



			Could we not get Great Britain being awarded it then, instead of England.
It would be delightful to get Scotland involved again.
		
Click to expand...

Sigh, just ignore poor old Northern Ireland. I'd much prefer a United Kingdom bid. Having a few matches at Windsor Park would be nice. With 48 teams, I'm sure there would be no harm in 4 hosts?


----------



## PieMan (Nov 25, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Big time.

Some of the games so far have been pretty laughable - and its only going to get worse!
		
Click to expand...

TBH I've quite enjoyed that aspect of it - comedy football before the serious games start!!!


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 25, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			was just thinking this! Pretty sure there's a lot of men in traditional robes etc.
		
Click to expand...

The stadium was full. It's just the all white robes make it look like empty white seats at first glance!


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 25, 2022)

Smiffy said:



			Could we not get Great Britain being awarded it then, instead of England.
It would be delightful to get Scotland involved again.
		
Click to expand...

Uk & Ireland were going to bid for 2030
But think they pulled out.
Going for Euro 2028 now instead.


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 25, 2022)

It's a disgrace that the home of football haven't held more than a single World Cup in almost 100 years. FIFA, the clueless FA and numerous woeful governments must take a share of the blame.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			How does the ref know to ask for review, if he hasn't seen something and therefore has no idea he has missed anything?

Is it easier in Rugby League, because there are more natural stoppages? If that is the case, I can imagine it might be easy for the rugby referee to have a quick word or 2 to the VAR guy during every break, just in case they need to take it further. Probably more difficult in football, where the ball can be put immediately back in play once it goes out.
		
Click to expand...

Not used for the same reason, I think. In RL the ref may acknowledge that his view may not be complete , so he goes to the guys with the cameras etc. And in RL (super league), there a loads of cameras and many angles of view . Makes all the difference, was the ball grounded etc? 
And it works. Many first  , one time, real-time views are seen to be wrong when reviewed.
excites the spectators too😀


----------



## D-S (Nov 25, 2022)

4LEX said:



			It's a disgrace that the home of football haven't held more than a single World Cup in almost 100 years. FIFA, the clueless FA and numerous woeful governments must take a share of the blame.
		
Click to expand...

Just watch FIFA Uncovered on Netflix. 
Having the best bid in terms of football, fans, legacy, etc.etc. has absolutely nothing to do with the decision to where World Cups are held. In a way I am glad that we aren’t hosting in the short/medium term as it would mean that our authorities and government would be stooped to sordid corruption and we would have sold our souls just to get a football tournament.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

D-S said:



			Just watch FIFA Uncovered on Netflix.
Having the best bid in terms of football, fans, legacy, etc.etc. has absolutely nothing to do with the decision to where World Cups are held. In a way I am glad that we aren’t hosting in the short/medium term as it would mean that our authorities and government would be stooped to sordid corruption and we would have sold our souls just to get a football tournament.
		
Click to expand...

I've just finished watching that. FIFA are effectively a global mafia. Disgusting organisation


----------



## D-S (Nov 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I've just finished watching that. FIFA are effectively a global mafia. Disgusting organisation
		
Click to expand...

Infantino , the ‘clean‘ successor, seems just to be a younger version of Blatter - stabbing Platini in the back to get the job (as Blatter did to Havelange), even born in a Swiss village a few miles away from Blatter. Now resident in Qatar, all the hallmarks of another scandal in waiting.


----------



## fundy (Nov 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Sigh, just ignore poor old Northern Ireland. I'd much prefer a United Kingdom bid. Having a few matches at Windsor Park would be nice. With 48 teams, I'm sure there would be no harm in 4 hosts?
		
Click to expand...

Bidding for 2028 Euros includes them


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Just seen it again.

Not sure what you mean by "con" the referee? He didn't throw himself over, the opponent genuinely brought him down.

There is debate about him "looking" for the penalty, by moving his foot across the ball, between the ball and the challenge of the opponent. However, is that not just a basic football move? When an opponent is coming to challenge for the ball, it is natural to try and get your body between them and the ball so they can't get to it. If they then go through you, it is a foul. I can't imagine any player is ever coached to keep a nice open gap for the opponent to get their foot on the ball?
		
Click to expand...

If he’s going to shoot he needs to hit it left footed with his right foot on the ground .
He throws his leg in front of the defender. Looking for contact imo and ref seemed to agree.
Very clumsy effort by the defender I must say.
I would say 50/50 but would not be suprized to see it given.
I was a CB so am a bit biased towards the defender in these things.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			If he’s going to shoot he needs to hit it left footed with his right foot on the ground .
He throws his leg in front of the defender. Looking for contact imo and ref seemed to agree.
Very clumsy effort by the defender I must say.
I would say 50/50 but would not be suprized to see it given.
I was a CB so am a bit biased towards the defender in these things.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure giving technical advice to a professional striker would be taken too seriously, unless you were a world class footballing coach  

As you say, even if the penalty was a 50-50 call, then the striker may well have done exactly the right thing. After all, a 50-50 chance of getting a penalty, along with the odds of scoring a penalty, may have been a lot greater than a small chance of scoring from a tighter angle on his weaker foot


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

Come on Ecuador (VAR dependent)


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm not sure giving technical advice to a professional striker would be taken too seriously, unless you were a world class footballing coach 

As you say, even if the penalty was a 50-50 call, then the striker may well have done exactly the right thing. After all, a 50-50 chance of getting a penalty, along with the odds of scoring a penalty, may have been a lot greater than a small chance of scoring from a tighter angle on his weaker foot
		
Click to expand...

I see your point .
But imo he decided not to shoot and try to “ earn” a penalty buy stepping in front of the CB.

My advice to a striker is if your in front af the defender get your shot off, you might not score but a team mate might get the follow up.
Got my coaching badges in the Bootle Joc league of hard knocks. Very long time ago.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Come on Ecuador (VAR dependent)
		
Click to expand...

Bit dodgy that decision.
Keeper was diving to his right so must have been able to see the ball.
Only the deflection beat him.
But miles offside make the decision an easy one.


----------



## PieMan (Nov 25, 2022)

4LEX said:



			It's a disgrace that the home of football haven't held more than a single World Cup in almost 100 years. FIFA, the clueless FA and numerous woeful governments must take a share of the blame.
		
Click to expand...

I think that's harsh. By all accounts the last English bid was excellent, but with FIFA choosing Russia and Qatar, clearly cash in brown envelopes won the day!! 

I saw something recently that said a significant number of FIFA and World Football Federation chiefs who were around for that process had now been permanently banned from football. I wonder why.........

Also saw a report that Denmark were going to speak to a number of UEFA members about quitting FIFA after the armbands and alcohol fiasco. Perhaps we may see the LIV World Cup in 2030.......!!!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 25, 2022)

PieMan said:



			I think that's harsh. By all accounts the last English bid was excellent, but with FIFA choosing Russia and Qatar, clearly cash in brown envelopes won the day!! 

I saw something recently that said a significant number of FIFA and World Football Federation chiefs who were around for that process had now been permanently banned from football. I wonder why.........

Also saw a report that Denmark were going to speak to a number of UEFA members about quitting FIFA after the armbands and alcohol fiasco. Perhaps we may see the LIV World Cup in 2030.......!!! 

Click to expand...

UEFA are just as bad.
It needs a breakaway from both so countries have a bit more say and not just dictated to.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 25, 2022)

Any bets on England game?


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Big time.

Some of the games so far have been pretty laughable - and its only going to get worse!
		
Click to expand...

Football will be 12months per year soon.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

D-S said:



			Just watch FIFA Uncovered on Netflix.
Having the best bid in terms of football, fans, legacy, etc.etc. has absolutely nothing to do with the decision to where World Cups are held. In a way I am glad that we aren’t hosting in the short/medium term as it *would mean that our authorities and government would be stooped to sordid corruption *and we would have sold our souls just to get a football tournament.
		
Click to expand...

Like they did during the  COVID pandemic you mean😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

Surprised Foden isn't starting though looking forward to seeing that cart horse getting rinsed😁


----------



## Smiffy (Nov 25, 2022)

Sorry, I can't take this seriously any more.
Maybe I'm just a male chauvinist pig ..🥺🥺🥺🥺


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 25, 2022)

Who’s the cart horse? 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Blue in Munich (Nov 25, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Who’s the cart horse? 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Slabhead Maguire


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 25, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Slabhead Maguire
		
Click to expand...

aaahhh right.
Thought I was missing out on something funny 😬


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 25, 2022)

Sounds like a bit of a farce getting into the stadiums with tickets sent to your phone.
Technology 🤷‍♂️


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2022)

Really looking forward to this game.

We looked good Monday, the team will be full of confidence.. no changes to a winning side which is good he obviously trusts them 

Plenty of talent to come off the bench if we need .

Hopefully a solid win to see us through then rest a couple of the big guns Tuesday


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

I wonder if Foden would walk into the starting 11 for every other national side?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I wonder if Foden would walk into the starting 11 for every other national side?
		
Click to expand...

I like Foden,but who would you drop for him?


----------



## danielmeyers (Nov 25, 2022)

4LEX said:



			It's a disgrace that the home of football haven't held more than a single World Cup in almost 100 years, more on writemypaper. FIFA, the clueless FA and numerous woeful governments must take a share of the blame.
		
Click to expand...

First Russia, then Qatar. Next, is North Korea?

Probably not though, they just don't have that much money in envelopes


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			I like Foden,but who would you drop for him?
		
Click to expand...

Well, I get why he wants to keep team unchanged, so not completely slamming his line up tonight. But, going into World Cup, Sterling? Can Foden play in Mount's position?


----------



## yandabrown (Nov 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Surprised Foden isn't starting though looking forward to seeing that cart horse getting rinsed😁
		
Click to expand...

I assume that cart horses have a different concussion protocol compared to the thoroughbreds?


----------



## Blue in Munich (Nov 25, 2022)

yandabrown said:



			I assume that cart horses have a different concussion protocol compared to the thoroughbreds?
		
Click to expand...

Looked like he was still concussed on that dribble; like Bambi on ice.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, I get why he wants to keep team unchanged, so not completely slamming his line up tonight. But, going into World Cup, Sterling? Can Foden play in Mount's position?
		
Click to expand...

Sterling just seems to do it for England tho.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

Smiffy said:



			Sorry, I can't take this seriously any more.
Maybe I'm just a male chauvinist pig ..🥺🥺🥺🥺
		
Click to expand...

I'm assuming the 2 ladies pitchside? 

I like woods, cant be doing with Carney though.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 25, 2022)

How to set yourselves up for a break away goal………against you!

Faffing around at the back.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

yandabrown said:



			I assume that cart horses have a different concussion protocol compared to the thoroughbreds?
		
Click to expand...

Or maybe they've realised he's got nothing up there to get concussed🤷‍♂️

I've been seconded onto taxi duties this evening so i'm not watching.


----------



## IainP (Nov 25, 2022)

Seems a bit more atmosphere in the stadium than a few other games.
USA pressing pretty well so far, may tire later.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Looked like he was still concussed on that dribble; like Bambi on ice.
		
Click to expand...

Standard Maguire.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 25, 2022)

They could be two up so easily, if this is to plan then Southgate needs to wobble his head.


----------



## IanM (Nov 25, 2022)

England and Wales both must have been out boozing last night


----------



## paddyc (Nov 25, 2022)

Kieron Trippier certainly  was.!


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 25, 2022)

It's the hope that kills you...

Awful first half. Get the bloody ball forwards - did that the last few minutes and created something at last. Otherwise slow and turgid yet still caught on the break numerous times. Where's Bellingham gone? 

Hoping for a better second half!


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 25, 2022)

Maguire actually doing well
Trippier is having a mare
We look leggy
Bellingham,Sterling and Saka a shadow of what they weee in the opening game.
A few changes coming I believe.


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 25, 2022)

Roy Keane growing his Xmas beard


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 25, 2022)

Purgatory.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2022)

I'd take off mount for foden to unlock the USA


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I'd take off mount for foden to unlock the USA
		
Click to expand...

Agreed (although I am biased)...Mount just hasn't got the ability of Foden and I don't understand why that ability is sat on the bench. Madness...


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I'd take off mount for foden to unlock the USA
		
Click to expand...

The broken waistcoat may well do with 2 minutes to go. ☹️


----------



## Red devil (Nov 25, 2022)

Foden should be on,Southgate will bring him on @ 89min.
USA very organised and drilled


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 25, 2022)

Only England could have talent like Foden and TAA sat on the bench - criminally wasted


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 25, 2022)

Red devil said:



			Foden should be on,Southgate will bring him on @ 89min.
USA very organised and drilled
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂😂😂 I beat you by seconds re Foden.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 25, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Roy Keane growing his Xmas beard
		
Click to expand...

It's quite distracting isn't it? Do you think he working as Santa in a department store somewhere this Christmas and doesn't want a stick on?


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Only England could have talent like Foden and TAA sat on the bench - criminally wasted
		
Click to expand...

After the season Trent is having compared to tripper who is the best right back in the league ATM?


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Agreed (although I am biased)...Mount just hasn't got the ability of Foden and I don't understand why that ability is sat on the bench. Madness...
		
Click to expand...

Even grealish would be great option

Plenty of football to go


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 25, 2022)

If we were playing three centrebacks then I'd pick TAA. With a back four I'd go with Trippier.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 25, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Only England could have talent like Foden and TAA sat on the bench - criminally wasted
		
Click to expand...

Trent??
I know you don’t go to Anfield,but I assumed you watched the games on TV 😂😂


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Trent??
I know you don’t go to Anfield,but I assumed you watched the games on TV 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

He only made the plane because James got injured 

You would hazard that walker would be ahead of him aswell.


----------



## Smiffy (Nov 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm assuming the 2 ladies pitchside?
		
Click to expand...

Yep.
I'm sorry, I'm a Saint & Greavesy man 
🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺


----------



## Dando (Nov 25, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's quite distracting isn't it? Do you think he working as Santa in a department store somewhere this Christmas and doesn't want a stick on?
		
Click to expand...

He’s wearing his grandads shirt


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 25, 2022)

Would even look to bring on Henderson for prob Rice - get some energy into the midfield , so slow and pedestrian right now


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 25, 2022)

Get Mount off for crying out loud. Loses the ball so often and then jogs back...

This is awful but can't quite bring myself to stop watching!!


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 25, 2022)

Also - "States United" - are we meant to view the manager's t-shirt through a mirror


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would even look to bring on Henderson for prob Rice - get some energy into the midfield , so slow and pedestrian right now
		
Click to expand...

And that's exactly how we lost the euro final.. let's not repeat that rubbish


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 25, 2022)

This is awful but he will make a few changes when we go one down.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2022)

Let's take mount, sterling off 

Bring on foden and grealish 

Really attack them


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 25, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's quite distracting isn't it? Do you think he working as Santa in a department store somewhere this Christmas and doesn't want a stick on?
		
Click to expand...

Would you sit your kid on his knee. 🤔😳


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 25, 2022)

Has Southgate gone to sleep?
This is embarrassing.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 25, 2022)

And this is the stage of a game where Southgate seems to be on a different planet when he does not change anything. Then folk wonder why he gets slated.


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 25, 2022)

Time to make a change quick


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 25, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would even look to bring on Henderson for prob Rice - get some energy into the midfield , so slow and pedestrian right now
		
Click to expand...

🎣 too obvious now pal.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Let's take mount, sterling off

Bring on foden and grealish

Really attack them
		
Click to expand...

Definitely 👍🏻


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

Southgate humiliating himself here. England look sluggish, and he is taking an age to put fresh legs on, let alone adjust things tactically.


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 25, 2022)

I can't stand much more of this. What is Southgate hoping for?? Miracles?! This 11 aint working - change it man!

My head hurts...


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 25, 2022)

Sterling ,Mount, Saka are anonymous


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

Changes after 67 minutes. Southgate must have just woken up.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Definitely 👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

Well 1 out of 2 isnt bad 

Henderson for Bellingham, I guess Jude needs protecting. He is very young and it's just not been his day


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 25, 2022)

I hope Henderson's message to Mount was "5 more minutes and you're off unless you improve"!


----------



## IanM (Nov 25, 2022)

I feel sick watching this. We're shocking


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Well 1 out of 2 isnt bad

Henderson for Bellingham, I guess Jude needs protecting. He is very young and it's just not been his day
		
Click to expand...

If he’s going to be in the starting eleven he needs to be at it.
Shocking team preformance not just him.
It’s the USA not Brazil.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 25, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			I hope Henderson's message to Mount was "5 more minutes and you're off unless you improve"!
		
Click to expand...

Isn’t 67 enough?


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

Foden living his childhood dream. Sitting on the bench at the World Cup against USA.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			If he’s going to be in the starting eleven he needs to be at it.
Shocking team preformance not just him.
It’s the USA not Brazil.
		
Click to expand...

.think we are doing USA a disservice

They have played well and earning it


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			.think we are doing USA a disservice

They have played well and earning it
		
Click to expand...

Not to sure about that we have been shocking .
Pickford hasn’t made a save.
To many side/ back passes  by England.
Starting 11 hasn’t worked and took to long to change it.
Just let’s the USA into the game.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			.think we are doing USA a disservice

They have played well and earning it
		
Click to expand...

They have played well, for the USA. Doesn't stop it being a scary thought that coming up against an in form USA team is too much for England. England relying on luck now


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 25, 2022)

Is Foden carrying an injury? Only thing I can think is that Southgate is protecting him.


----------



## Imurg (Nov 25, 2022)

USA have played well - but thats because we're letting them...


----------



## Smiffy (Nov 25, 2022)

Bring on Gazza, Lineker, Hoddle and Beckham.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 25, 2022)

Grealish has made a difference.
At least he can hold the ball


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

Has Mount got some dirt on Southgate?


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2022)

Henderson doing exactly what he did in the euro final...over hitting the final ball


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Has Mount got some dirt on Southgate?
		
Click to expand...

Kind of player managers like, do a job without question and 100% work ethic


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 25, 2022)

Is it still coming home?


----------



## IainP (Nov 25, 2022)

England's crossing into box has been woeful all evening  - come on prove me wrong England!


----------



## IanM (Nov 25, 2022)

Bit of credit to the USA... playing well, but we look clueless


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 25, 2022)

Hopefully the USA will
Get tired in the 151st minute.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 25, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sterling ,Mount, Saka are anonymous
		
Click to expand...

No, Mount isn’t anonymous. He thinks the ref is blind. Hands all over opponents.
Really clever🙄
Wouldnt have him playing in a Sunday team.
U.S to score in added time.


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 25, 2022)

83rd minute and the first time we press...

I don't understand how we can be so clueless and listless.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

Henderson really made a difference...


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 25, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Would you sit your kid on his knee. 🤔😳
		
Click to expand...

They would be utterly terrified and traumatised. 'Presents, you want presents 😡🤬'  

😆


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

Brazil,France and Senegal must be buzzing off this.

Same old, Same old.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			83rd minute and the first time we press...

I don't understand how we can be so clueless and listless.
		
Click to expand...

And it started from the pressing Monster Henderson😁😁


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 25, 2022)

Like I said at half time. Purgatory


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Henderson doing exactly what he did in the euro final...over hitting the final ball
		
Click to expand...

I laughed when i seen that, i have seen that exact ball 753,876 times at Anfield


----------



## IainP (Nov 25, 2022)

USA have given England a lesson in how to press.
Suppose a clean sheet and the CBs did pretty well.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 25, 2022)

Was that the England fans booing.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

Southgate needs to bring the waistcoat back.


----------



## Piece (Nov 25, 2022)

Dull. So dull. Southgate football at its finest.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Was that the England fans booing.
		
Click to expand...

No they were singing GSTK, it was the Liverpool fans 😁😁


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 25, 2022)

Maguire one of Englands better players who would have thought that , but a terrible performance from England


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 25, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Was that the England fans booing.
		
Click to expand...

Think so. Same happening here on the settee and I haven't spent a fortune to watch it!

Mission accomplished hey Gareth - clean sheet and we didn't lose...excellent.


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 25, 2022)

Yawn, now we need a result against wales who will be so up for their World Cup final.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 25, 2022)

Was he resting Foden for the Wales game? 🙄


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 25, 2022)

Southgate will be happy because we didn’t lose.
His argument will always be qualify first.
Wales are rank and we will win easily against them.
I believe Phil Foden is the best talent in the country,and Southgate doesn’t.
Maguire was MOM


----------



## IanM (Nov 25, 2022)

Tough watch.   Liked the reference to second game at Euros. 

But this was a deliberate English ruse to knock out Wales.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

Without heaping pressure on him, how doesn't Foden get 20mins there?🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️


----------



## IanM (Nov 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Without heaping pressure on him, how doesn't Foden get 20mins there?🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Odd.  I agree


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 25, 2022)

What a pile of utter dross. It's about time Kane was dumped, as it seems he thinks it's walking footy he's playing.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Southgate will be happy because we didn’t lose.
His argument will always be qualify first.
Wales are rank and we will win easily against them.
I believe Phil Foden is the best talent in the country,and Southgate doesn’t.
*Maguire was MOM*

Click to expand...

Nurse....Nurse... he's out the bed again🤦🏼‍♂😁😁😁


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Yawn, now we need a result against wales who will be so up for their World Cup final.
		
Click to expand...

We don't. We qualify so long as we don't lose by 4 goals


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Without heaping pressure on him, how doesn't Foden get 20mins there?🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

He's not one of Southgates best mates..


----------



## spongebob59 (Nov 25, 2022)

Southgate given a lesson in tatics and coaching. Utterly Clueless


----------



## paddyc (Nov 25, 2022)

Well that was crap!


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 25, 2022)

Anyone else notice how Trippier took his time taking the corner. In added time.
Talk about playing for a draw!


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 25, 2022)

Another thing that interview from the fa chief what a disgrace and to cap it all the commentator said they’ve lit up the wembly arch with rainbow colours that’s just a insult


----------



## Piece (Nov 25, 2022)

Bellingham was the second coming of Zidane the other day and today gets hooked.

Mount was rubbish and Foden plus Grealish should have been on at HT.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2022)

I'd like to see 2 changes Tuesday 

Grealish for sterling 

Foden for mount 

That is all


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 25, 2022)

Why do people that don’t support the national team,feel the need to constantly let people know they don’t support the the national team?
They’re like Vegans.
Craving attention 😬


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I'd like to see 2 changes Tuesday

Grealish for sterling

Foden for mount

That is all
		
Click to expand...

How about Wilson for Kane. We don't need an extra defender to clog up the park, we need someone with pace who's going to be in place to attack.


----------



## Asian Dawn (Nov 25, 2022)

Wish I'd watched 90 minutes of a Joe Biden speech.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			How about Wilson for Kane. We don't need an extra defender to clog up the park, we need someone with pace who's going to be in place to attack.
		
Click to expand...

Kane was one of the better players tonight. He always willing to receive the ball. Plays the wingers in.

He is too important not to play 

Maybe Wilson for sterling


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Kane was one of the better players tonight. He always willing to receive the ball. Plays the wingers in.

He is too important not to play

Maybe Wilson for sterling
		
Click to expand...

We watched a different game then.
Too important for what? The team plays to his tempo, which is undertaker pace.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 25, 2022)

I think listening to Southgate he has concussion. Hopefully we can get a sub manager for the rest of the tournament


----------



## backwoodsman (Nov 25, 2022)

OK, so qualification is probable, but that was an hour and a half that I'd rather not live through again. Slow, turgid and uninspiring on our part. USA were well organised and by far the more imaginative. If things don't change it certainly won't be 'It's coming home' but more 'We're coming home'...


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 25, 2022)

I think a lot of commentators and fans got carried away with the first game, tonight’s game was always going to be harder.

But with the talent of Kane, Bellingham, Saka , Grealish, Foden,Rashford, Mount we should have had enough to beat the USA. 

I didn’t include Sterling as I think he shouldn’t start for England.   

I hope Grealish and Foden start next game.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			We watched a different game then.
Too important for what? The team plays to his tempo, which is undertaker pace.
		
Click to expand...

If you don't see the importance of kane to England I don't think you understand football.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

Southgate's interview says it all.

After Iran, he was negative and criticised conceding 2 goals. Was not overly excited about scoring 6.

Tonight he is really excited by the clean sheet.

And why did Foden not come on? Because Grealish holds on to it better, and Rashford is quicker


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 25, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			How about Wilson for Kane. We don't need an extra defender to clog up the park, we need someone with pace who's going to be in place to attack.
		
Click to expand...

It’s a big issue for England - Kane constantly dropping deep taking the ball off CB’s then leaves no focal point up front because the wide players are also too deep. The whole team lacked creativity and their two best creative players sat the whole game on the bench

But it’s no different from your standard Southgate set up and tactics and it won’t ever change and his interview afterwards 😂


----------



## Piece (Nov 25, 2022)

Gareth watching a different game. Stuttered when asked about no Foden. 🫣


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Nurse....Nurse... he's out the bed again🤦🏼‍♂😁😁😁
		
Click to expand...

He was the best England player 
Who was yours? Henderson


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 25, 2022)

Southgate I was just laughing.
We controlled the game from the back.
We have the most exciting young players going forward sitting on the bench.
I did have a thought that the USA scored we might see the back of him.
Absolute dross.
Has Mount got a dirty tape of him, how he played all game is a shocker.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2022)

Piece said:



			Gareth watching a different game. Stuttered when asked about no Foden. 🫣
		
Click to expand...

The problem with international management, especially now . Is we have real strength in depth . If foden had come on instead of grealish and same result it would have been why no grealish


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 25, 2022)

Smiffy said:



			Bring on Gazza, Lineker, Hoddle and Beckham.
		
Click to expand...

Beckham is busy counting his money.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Nurse....Nurse... he's out the bed again🤦🏼‍♂😁😁😁
		
Click to expand...

The game allowed to do the one basic thing he can do - head a ball away


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			The problem with international management, especially now . Is we have real strength in depth . If foden had come on instead of grealish and same result it would have been why no grealish
		
Click to expand...

I'd have thought most fans would think Foden is England's best attacking player, and most in form? So, I doubt there would have been as much scrutiny if Foden came on and Grealish didn't.

However, don't see why they both couldn't come on. Mount did nothing.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'd have thought most fans would think Foden is England's best attacking player, and most in form? So, I doubt there would have been as much scrutiny if Foden came on and Grealish didn't.

However, don't see why they both couldn't come on. Mount did nothing.
		
Click to expand...

Mount will become England's latest Scape goat because foden isn't playing 

He wasn't that bad 

It's like when everyone wanted grealish and Sancho at the world cup and people moaned that rice and Phillips started together rather than being more attacking 

Let's be honest and look at the game objectively

We didn't lose 

We have 4 points from a possible 6

We will most likely qualify 

Bad games happen but we kept a clean sheet and didn't make it worse than a draw.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Mount will become England's latest Scape goat because foden isn't playing

He wasn't that bad

It's like when everyone wanted grealish and Sancho at the world cup and people moaned that rice and Phillips started together rather than being more attacking

Let's be honest and look at the game objectively

We didn't lose

We have 4 points from a possible 6

We will most likely qualify

Bad games happen but we kept a clean sheet and didn't make it worse than a draw.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not blaming Mount. He is a decent player, and can do a job. He is nowhere near Foden's talent though. And, especially after the game was as it was, it was bizarre ignoring Foden on bench. I'm questioning Southgate, not Mount.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			He was the best England player
Who was yours? Henderson
		
Click to expand...

Close, Pickford. 

He kept a clean sheet and made a couple of good saves. 

Henderson done more in 20 mins than Mount did.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm not blaming Mount. He is a decent player, and can do a job. He is nowhere near Foden's talent though. And, especially after the game was as it was, it was bizarre ignoring Foden on bench. I'm questioning Southgate, not Mount.
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough, I wanted foden on aswell but end of day we live to fight another game 

Respect the point


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 25, 2022)

Good point and a clean sheet.

Don’t understand why Foden isn’t playing.

Grealish is terrible.

On to smashing Wales.


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Close, Pickford.

He kept a clean sheet and made a couple of good saves.

Henderson done more in 20 mins than Mount did.
		
Click to expand...

I know you see a different game to most.
Pickford?never
Henderson is just horrendous


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 25, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			How about Wilson for Kane. We don't need an extra defender to clog up the park, we need someone with pace who's going to be in place to attack.
		
Click to expand...

Kane’s not the problem,  one of the best goalscorers in Europe and 51 goals for England to suggest dropping him is a strange one. 

Watching Kane live its very noticeable how few sprints he makes but his awareness and passes he makes is immense. 

If the game is not going well he always drops deeper and try’s to affect the game and many times for Spurs it’s worked. 

The problem tonight was tactics and not Kane


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Or maybe they've realised he's got nothing up there to get concussed🤷‍♂️

*I've been seconded onto taxi duties this evening so i'm not watching*.
		
Click to expand...

Did you or Didn’t you watch the game tonight La?
🤷‍♂️😂😂😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			I know you see a different game to most.
Pickford?never
Henderson is just horrendous
		
Click to expand...

At least i judge it as i see it and i dont let previous or club allegiance's cloud my judgment.

Henderson changed the game and apart from 1 poor ball, i dont think you can call him horrendous when Mount, Kane, Sterling and Rice all stayed on the pitch past 60mins.

To top it all, Foden never got a sniff🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Did you or Didn’t you watch the game tonight La?
🤷‍♂️😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Seen the 2nd half mush.


----------



## Slime (Nov 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Surprised Foden isn't starting though *looking forward to seeing that cart horse getting rinsed😁*

Click to expand...

That carthorse that never got rinsed was our best player. 

As for when we beat Wales on Tuesday, I'd start with Rashford, Grealish & Foden for Mount, Sterling & Saka.
I'd also be tempted to have Wilson in for Kane.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			At least i judge it as i see it and i dont let previous or club allegiance's cloud my judgment.

Henderson changed the game and apart from 1 poor ball, i dont think you can call him horrendous when Mount, Kane, Sterling and Rice all stayed on the pitch past 60mins.

To fop it all, Foden bever got a sniff🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Rice did exactly what was needed..some vital interceptions and blocks to keep it 0-0


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Close, Pickford.

He kept a clean sheet and made a couple of good saves.

Henderson done more in 20 mins than Mount did.
		
Click to expand...

I’m surprised you watched the game giving your dislike of the national team.😉


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			I’m surprised you watched the game giving your dislike of the national team.😉
		
Click to expand...

He had to boo god save the king 👑


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Seen the 2nd half mush.
		
Click to expand...

Nice one La.
Not like you to miss a Engaaaarland game is it.
“Look at me everybody,I don’t support England”
Top Lad bantz 😬😂👍🏻👍🏻


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			I’m surprised you watched the game giving your dislike of the national team.😉
		
Click to expand...

Why you surprised, i wasnt supporting them, laughed a good few times though.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			He had to boo god save the king 👑
		
Click to expand...

Attention seeker 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Nice one La.
Not like you to miss a Engaaaarland game is it.
“Look at me everybody,I don’t support England”
Top Lad bantz 😬😂👍🏻👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

🙄🙄🥱🥱


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			He had to boo god save the king 👑
		
Click to expand...

Dont need to watch an England game to do that me auld gammon🤣


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Attention seeker 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

👈Oh the irony from king attention seeker/ stalker.


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			At least i judge it as i see it and i dont let previous or club allegiance's cloud my judgment.

Henderson changed the game and apart from 1 poor ball, i dont think you can call him horrendous when Mount, Kane, Sterling and Rice all stayed on the pitch past 60mins.

To fop it all, Foden bever got a sniff🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Your first Paragraph made me laugh, judge it as I see it you didn’t even watch the whole game🤷🏼‍♂️  

I get you don’t rate Maguire and he will get caught out against better teams but give the man some credit he played well tonight     

You can only judge the man on how he played for England tonight not this week or the next game, forget you’re dislike of England and Man U give the man some credit 😉

I look forward of your assessment of his performance against Wales. 👍


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Rice did exactly what was needed..some vital interceptions and blocks to keep it 0-0
		
Click to expand...

The game (2nd half specifically) needed more  than what Rice gave.

Its nothing personal, I would've kept Bellingham on over Rice and changed the shape of the team instead of asking  players to go on and do the same  thing over and over again.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			👈Oh the irony from king attention seeker/ stalker.
		
Click to expand...

When Engaaaarland get knocked out,and you post your Hilarious post,try not to drop the C bomb this time Lad.
That way everyone can enjoy it & you get more attention 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🙄


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			The game (2nd half specifically) needed more  than what Rice gave.

Its nothing personal, I would've kept Bellingham on over Rice and changed the shape of the team instead of asking  players to go on and do the same  thing over and over again.
		
Click to expand...

I'd of taken Bellingham or mount for foden 

We didn't need an older version of Bellingham on


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Your first Paragraph made me laugh, judge it as I see it you didn’t even watch the whole game🤷🏼‍♂️ 

I get you don’t rate Maguire and he will get caught out against better teams but give the man some credit he played well tonight    

You can only judge the man on how he played for England tonight not this week or the next game, forget you’re dislike of England and Man U give the man some credit 😉

I look forward of your assessment of his performance against Wales. 👍
		
Click to expand...

I listened to the excellent  5Live coverage 1st half whilst completing taxi duties and watched the 2nd half. 

I havent made comment  on Maguire yet except for  Pokers MOM shout. He must've been prime Beckenbaur 1st half because 2nd half he was average 😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			When Engaaaarland get knocked out,and you post your Hilarious post,try not to drop the C bomb this time Lad.
That way everyone can enjoy it & you get more attention 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🙄
		
Click to expand...

Dont you worry your little self  I'll watch from afar and laugh, i dont want to be upsetting Mein Fuhrer any more.

See you next Tuesday👍


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I'd of taken Bellingham or mount for foden

We didn't need an older version of Bellingham on
		
Click to expand...

See, how easy is that without throwing insults about?

We're all entitled to an opinion


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

Slime said:



			That carthorse that never got rinsed was our best player. 

As for when we beat Wales on Tuesday, I'd start with Rashford, Grealish & Foden for Mount, Sterling & Saka.
I'd also be tempted to have Wilson in for Kane.
		
Click to expand...

Did you see his 1-2 attempt on the edge of their box he messed up and looked like he was running in quick sand to get back into position?🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Dont you worry your little self  I'll watch from afar and laugh, i dont want to be upsetting Mein Fuhrer any more.

See you next Tuesday👍
		
Click to expand...

Something to look forward to.
Good to see you’ve got it in your diary 😆.
#scousenotenglish


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 25, 2022)

how riveting 😂


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			See, how easy is that without throwing insults about?

We're all entitled to an opinion
		
Click to expand...

Insults?


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I listened to the excellent  5Live coverage 1st half whilst completing taxi duties and watched the 2nd half.

I havent made comment  on Maguire yet except for  Pokers MOM shout. He must've been prime Beckenbaur 1st half because 2nd half he was average 😉
		
Click to expand...

You did call him a cart horse 😂 anyway I don’t take any notice of armchair fans 👍


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 25, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			how riveting 😂
		
Click to expand...

Eh?
You on the wrong thread Phil?
Or just trying to score some points wi Stu La 🤷‍♂️😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			You did call him a cart horse 😂 anyway I don’t take any notice of armchair fans 👍
		
Click to expand...

He is, personified👍

Me too, Whats the weather like in Qatar?


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 25, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Mount will become England's latest Scape goat because foden isn't playing

He wasn't that bad

It's like when everyone wanted grealish and Sancho at the world cup and people moaned that rice and Phillips started together rather than being more attacking

Let's be honest and look at the game objectively

We didn't lose

We have 4 points from a possible 6

We will most likely qualify

Bad games happen but we kept a clean sheet and didn't make it worse than a draw.
		
Click to expand...

yes, let’s look at it. We didn’t get anywhere near their goal. When was our first corner?
Only time Mount was noticed was when he pulled opponents. Suppose he forget there was a referee on the pitch. More likely he couldn’t help himself.
They attacked and we were lucky one didn’t find the net. 
They hit the crossbar . Had it gone in, where would we be.?

And what message to the better teams have we given.?

It was bad, however you spin it.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			yes, let’s look at it. We didn’t get anywhere near their goal. When was our first corner?
Only time Mount was noticed was when he pulled opponents. Suppose he forget there was a referee on the pitch. More likely he couldn’t help himself.
They attacked and we were lucky one didn’t find the net.
They hit the crossbar . Had it gone in, where would we be.?

And what message to the better teams have we given.?

It was bad, however you spin it.
		
Click to expand...

Mount got a shot at goal after working space and it was saved by their keeper 

It wasn't the best shot in the world but it was a clean cut chance 

Our first corner came from saka cut back to kane whos shot was well blocked in the first half


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			He is, personified👍

Me too, Whats the weather like in Qatar?
		
Click to expand...

I spent a weekend in Liverpool in the summer it must have been you I met in Matthew Street cos he was a comedian 😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			I spent a weekend in Liverpool in the summer it must have been you I met in Matthew Street cos he was a comedian 😂
		
Click to expand...

You've lost me here🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

I swerve Matthew st, not my type of scene.


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 25, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			At least i judge it as i see it and i dont let previous or club allegiance's cloud my judgment.

Henderson changed the game and apart from 1 poor ball, i dont think you can call him horrendous when Mount, Kane, Sterling and Rice all stayed on the pitch past 60mins.

To top it all, Foden never got a sniff🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Changed the game 
0-0 when he came on
0-0 at the end
Lmao


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 25, 2022)

Awful awful performance, do we have similar to Belgium, an awful manager in charge of some real talent?


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 25, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Changed the game
0-0 when he came on
0-0 at the end
Lmao
		
Click to expand...

I expect better from those who've "played the game" 🙄🙄


----------



## sunshine (Nov 25, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Our talent from the midfield going forward is pretty insane. When you consider the depth we brought off the bench against Iran, its pretty ridiculous how much attacking talent we have. Id argue better in depth than any nation at the World Cup.
		
Click to expand...

Only one of them is world class: Kane. 
The rest are decent but wouldn’t get a start in any of the other top class teams at this tournament.


----------



## sunshine (Nov 25, 2022)

4LEX said:



			It's a disgrace that the home of football haven't held more than a single World Cup in almost 100 years. FIFA, the clueless FA and numerous woeful governments must take a share of the blame.
		
Click to expand...

Given the shambles that was the Euro 2020 final I can’t see England hosting the WC for a long time.


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 25, 2022)

sunshine said:



			Given the shambles that was the Euro 2020 final I can’t see England hosting the WC for a long time.
		
Click to expand...

I'm pretty certain they'd have it sorted if we ever get the chance again. It was very unfortunate that a minority of idiots got into the stadium but surely we have learned from it?


----------



## BrianM (Nov 25, 2022)

Wales will fancy their chances after that performance tonight 
Why the hell is Phil Foden not playing, he should be starting games not sitting on the bench.
Southgate has really got to start trusting other players in the squad, this tournament is wide open and England do have a chance in my opinion if he changes personnel.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 26, 2022)

Well…I…never…I didn't expect that.


----------



## Smiffy (Nov 26, 2022)

Although I'm off work with Covid at the moment, I've just been advised which teams I drew in the Sweepstake. Had four goes to give myself every chance.
I consider myself extremely lucky to have managed to bag these four gems...

*Cameroon + Ghana + Morocco + Ecuador*


----------



## Voyager EMH (Nov 26, 2022)

England v Wales betting odds 13/1 for 0:0.
Looks tempting.


----------



## Junior (Nov 26, 2022)

Awful game.  How Foden didn't get 30 minutes is mind blowing.  

As much as I don't want him near a Man U starting XI , Maguire was MOTM.  Strong in a few vital tackles,  good in the air and defensively ok.  That said, best of a bad bunch. 

For me the weak link was the midfield.  How many times did we see Stones and Maguire tapping it back and forth because there was no out let up the middle of the pitch.  USA pressed the full backs high up and left Southgate clueless.   Rice got found out a bit, but I don't blame him as he was isolated.  He needed two in the middle of the park


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 26, 2022)

Junior said:



			Awful game.  How Foden didn't get 30 minutes is mind blowing. 

As much as I don't want him near a Man U starting XI , Maguire was MOTM.  Strong in a few vital tackles,  good in the air and defensively ok.  That said, best of a bad bunch.

For me the weak link was the midfield.  How many times did we see *Stones and Maguire tapping it back and forth because there was no out let up the middle of the pitch. * USA pressed the full backs high up and left Southgate clueless.   Rice got found out a bit, but I don't blame him as he was isolated.  He needed two in the middle of the park
		
Click to expand...

No, because it’s easy and won’t make a mistake. Why didn’t they sometime move forward and pass” a through ball” type pass?  Cos they’re not accurate enough, that’s why.
Grealish can do it ,under pressure too. But these two. God, it’s painful to watch.


----------



## Swingalot (Nov 26, 2022)

England should be building a team around Foden!!!

His exclusion in the Euros was a disgrace, but now it is simply embarrassing.  Southgate dislikes him as a player as he is a maverick, skillful, talented and arrogant. All of the qualities he would tank under hard working, reliable, steady and defence first. Add the episode early in his career on England duty off the pitch and Southgate can't bring himself to see what is as clear as day. 

It's depressing .


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 26, 2022)

Voyager EMH said:



			England v Wales betting odds 13/1 for 0:0.
Looks tempting.
		
Click to expand...

Check what price no goalscorer is, remember own goals don't count.


----------



## Fade and Die (Nov 26, 2022)

Southgate parked the bus and got the result he wanted, a spineless performance it really was.
Says it all when Maguire was our best player!
A Moyesesque masterclass from Southgate, all that talent at his disposal and Henderson gets on when we need a goal 🤯


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 26, 2022)

After a fantastic nights sleep. I have now calmed down and can give an emotion free opinion of the game. It was Bloody rammel.

On a positive Maguire at one point looked more Messi than Messy when he did his penalty box dribble. 😁

But where to start. Southgate looked absolutely clueless. He never had a clue how break the USA high press. I hardly saw one midfielder drop for the ball. He has shown that better teams know how to pressure England because we cannot break out.
At times USA had five at the back yet we hardly had Wingers on the touch line.
It was a bad night for Saka and Sterling yet he stuck with them.They should of been off at half time for Foden and Grealish. 
At times we were defending with 4-3-3. USA were getting down the sides with ease. It took to long to sort out.
Southgate is killing another golden generation.


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 26, 2022)

Swingalot said:



			England should be building a team around Foden!!!

His exclusion in the Euros was a disgrace, but now it is simply embarrassing.  Southgate dislikes him as a player as he is a maverick, skillful, talented and arrogant. All of the qualities he would tank under hard working, reliable, steady and defence first. Add the episode early in his career on England duty off the pitch and Southgate can't bring himself to see what is as clear as day.

It's depressing .
		
Click to expand...

I believe but could be wrong that he got an injury after the first game,although I believe it was because he was asked to do a job but ignored it.
Southgate has his favourites and never waivers,however these players are tired and now under performing.
Saka,Kane,Bellingham and Sterling looked tired and leggy.
Mount although looking the fittest put in a poor performance,although he did have a good shot.
Southgate in all his interviews has shown his intentions is qualification and that won’t change.
Wether in the quarterfinals he changes and gets braver we will have to wait and see.
However one thing is for sure he has the best young talent in the WC and if he fails he’s gone.


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 26, 2022)

Question 
Does Southgate need to rest Kane against Wales?

He looks tired
We will need him fresh for the QF
Thoughts


----------



## fundy (Nov 26, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			I believe but could be wrong that he got an injury after the first game,although I believe it was because he was asked to do a job but ignored it.
Southgate has his favourites and never waivers,however these players are tired and now under performing.
Saka,Kane,Bellingham and Sterling looked tired and leggy.
Mount although looking the fittest put in a poor performance,although he did have a good shot.
Southgate in all his interviews has shown his intentions is qualification and that won’t change.
Wether in the quarterfinals he changes and gets braver we will have to wait and see.
*However one thing is for sure he has the best young talent in the WC* and if he fails he’s gone.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure Brazil or Spain would necessarily agree


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 26, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			No, because it’s easy and won’t make a mistake. Why didn’t they sometime move forward and pass” a through ball” type pass?  Cos they’re not accurate enough, that’s why.
Grealish can do it ,under pressure too. But these two. God, it’s painful to watch.
		
Click to expand...

That's my take on it. TV pictures not easy as they focus on the ball so we can't see the runs but I can't believe they weren't happening but no balls to play a ball with risk so give it to your mate stood along side you...pass the responsibility.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Southgate parked the bus and got the result he wanted, a spineless performance it really was.
Says it all when Maguire was our best player!
A Moyesesque masterclass from Southgate, all that talent at his disposal and Henderson gets on when we need a goal 🤯
		
Click to expand...

We will never agree on sir David lol but Henderson fully agree, he only seems to be in the squad for his experience, his form isn't exactly flying. Arguably Phillips and Gallagher would provide excellent cover for rice and Bellingham with mount covered by foden, Madison etc 

Bigger games Bellingham rice and Phillips as @fundy said before 

Now because of the bigger squads it makes sense for him to go to the world cup. However how on earth is he the one to be brought off the bench? 

We needed pace. He was not the option 

Bellingham wasn't exactly having a bad game and mount could have been withdrawn 

However it just doesn't make sense

Would make more sense if mount and Bellingham came off with foden and Henderson, an old head to back up the young superstar, but you could bring Bellingham off and pull mount back next to rice as a box to box leaving foden up there 

It's baffling how Henderson stepped foot onto that pitch to try and win the game


----------



## Imurg (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			We will never agree on sir David lol but Henderson fully agree, he only seems to be in the squad for his experience, his form isn't exactly flying. Arguably Phillips and Gallagher would provide excellent cover for rice and Bellingham with mount covered by foden, Madison etc

Bigger games Bellingham rice and Phillips as @fundy said before

Now because of the bigger squads it makes sense for him to go to the world cup. However how on earth is he the one to be brought off the bench?

We needed pace. He was not the option

Bellingham wasn't exactly having a bad game and mount could have been withdrawn

However it just doesn't make sense

Would make more sense if mount and Bellingham came off with foden and Henderson, an old head to back up the young superstar, but you could bring Bellingham off and pull mount back next to rice as a box to box leaving foden up there

It's baffling how Henderson stepped foot onto that pitch to try and win the game
		
Click to expand...

You're assuming they were trying to win.....wouldn't surprise me if they went out with the premise of simply not losing.
After all, the draw hasn't left us in a bad place.


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 26, 2022)

Imurg said:



			You're assuming they were trying to win.....wouldn't surprise me if they went out with the premise of simply not losing.
After all, the draw hasn't left us in a bad place.
		
Click to expand...

Sadly I think that's the case. Momentum in a tournament is key though and performances like yesterday's negatively impact that.

Gareth needs to have some sort of epiphany because right now we're not winning the World Cup - and I really want us to!


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

Imurg said:



			You're assuming they were trying to win.....wouldn't surprise me if they went out with the premise of simply not losing.
After all, the draw hasn't left us in a bad place.
		
Click to expand...

On that side id of seen Phillips brought on to solid up the midfield 

Looking at all the options on that bench I don't see how Henderson was selected


----------



## fundy (Nov 26, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Sadly I think that's the case. Momentum in a tournament is key though and performances like yesterday's negatively impact that.

Gareth needs to have some sort of epiphany because right now we're not winning the World Cup - and I really want us to!
		
Click to expand...


One of the biggest myth going momentum in a tournament imho. Take this years cricket world cup for eg......., plenty of other examples too. If a sides good enough they can overcome a bad game/result, especially if they have a competent manager....... Ok you might be right on this occasion lol


----------



## fundy (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			We will never agree on sir David lol but Henderson fully agree, he only seems to be in the squad for his experience, his form isn't exactly flying. Arguably Phillips and Gallagher would provide excellent cover for rice and Bellingham with mount covered by foden, Madison etc

Bigger games Bellingham rice and Phillips as @fundy said before

Now because of the bigger squads it makes sense for him to go to the world cup. However how on earth is he the one to be brought off the bench?

We needed pace. He was not the option

Bellingham wasn't exactly having a bad game and mount could have been withdrawn

However it just doesn't make sense

Would make more sense if mount and Bellingham came off with foden and Henderson, an old head to back up the young superstar, but you could bring Bellingham off and pull mount back next to rice as a box to box leaving foden up there

It's baffling how Henderson stepped foot onto that pitch to *try and win the game*

Click to expand...


The manager was not trying to win the game with that substitution, he was desperately trying to hang onto what he had. Hence Foden kept getting splinters, hence Mount stayed on etc. Knew we'd been outplayed and was desperate for the clean sheet and a point. Tbh im surprised he didnt bring another defender on, assume this means Walkers fitness isnt fully trusted still but last nights performance will definitely have him thinking of 5 at the back plus Rice and Philips in the KO stages, wouldnt be shocked to see him try it v Wales


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			The manager was not trying to win the game with that substitution, he was desperately trying to hang onto what he had. Hence Foden kept getting splinters, hence Mount stayed on etc. Knew we'd been outplayed and was desperate for the clean sheet and a point. Tbh im surprised he didnt bring another defender on, assume this means Walkers fitness isnt fully trusted still but last nights performance will definitely have him thinking of 5 at the back plus Rice and Philips in the KO stages, wouldnt be shocked to see him try it v Wales
		
Click to expand...

You called it vs Iran, rice Phillips with Bellingham in the attacking role 

Just hope we don't go back to Henderson, he isn't the answer ...and if he is we are asking the wrong questions


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 26, 2022)

Imurg said:



			You're assuming they were trying to win.....wouldn't surprise me if they went out with the premise of simply not losing.
After all, the draw hasn't left us in a bad place.
		
Click to expand...

yes, to me ,that was  confirmed when Trippier went to take the corner at the end.
He wasted time, clearly the actions of a player who wanted things to stay as they were.
And, just as clearly, he didn’t decide that on his own.


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 26, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Question 
Does Southgate need to rest Kane against Wales?

He looks tired
We will need him fresh for the QF
Thoughts
		
Click to expand...

Yea but he won’t, he’ll play his favourites and that’s it.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2022)

Blimey - you would think that Henderson was at the heart of all the issues , yet nothing about the midfielders on before him who created and added nothing.

The midfield was far too close to Maguire and Co and were adding nothing so bringing on Henderson was all about trying to get the midfield higher and closer to the front line and to try and close the Suez Canal size gap from Rice and Bellingham to the front players. Henderson dragged the play up higher and started the press a lot higher up the pitch. Not sure what happened with Bellingham but after the first 5 mins he just dropped deep and him and Rice offered nothing.

Would go for this team against Wales 

Pickford 

TAA
Maguire 
Stones
Shaw

Rice 
Henderson

Foden
Bellingham 
Saka

Kane


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blimey - you would think that Henderson was at the heart of all the issues , yet nothing about the midfielders on before him who created and added nothing.

The midfield was far too close to Maguire and Co and were adding nothing so bringing on Henderson was all about trying to get the midfield higher and closer to the front line and to try and close the Suez Canal size gap from Rice and Bellingham to the front players. Henderson dragged the play up higher and started the press a lot higher up the pitch. Not sure what happened with Bellingham but after the first 5 mins he just dropped deep and him and Rice offered nothing.

Would go for this team against Wales

Pickford

TAA
Maguire
Stones
Shaw

Rice
Henderson

Foden
Bellingham
Saka

Kane
		
Click to expand...

So Henderson and taa who have produced nothing all season get shoe horned into a team that scored 6 against Iran with the best right back in the league dropped?

No Liverpool bias there


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			So Henderson and taa who have produced nothing all season get shoe horned into a team that scored 6 against Iran with the best right back in the league dropped?

No Liverpool bias there
		
Click to expand...

Seriously if you’re talking about bias then at least look in the mirror - 99% of your posts since Henderson got on the pitch is about him - did he hurt you somewhere. 

The game against Iran was gone , they were creating nothing against USA . Zero , zilch , nada - TAA is one of the most creative with the ball at his feet , even Neville who has been critical of TAA said he should have been  put on the pitch along with Foden - but it’s Southgate lack of managerial ability that means he can’t work out how to play two of the best young players in Europe in his team.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seriously if you’re talking about bias then at least look in the mirror - 99% of your posts since Henderson got on the pitch is about him - did he hurt you somewhere.

The game against Iran was gone , they were creating nothing against USA . Zero , zilch , nada - TAA is one of the most creative with the ball at his feet , even Neville who has been critical of TAA said he should have been  put on the pitch along with Foden - but it’s Southgate lack of managerial ability that means he can’t work out how to play two of the best young players in Europe in his team.
		
Click to expand...

Changing full backs midgame when you still need to keep out the USA isn't a good idea. Considering the high profile errors Trent has made defending this year then bringing him on for tripper isn't the answer. Bringing him on to play in front of tripper for sterling and pushing saka wide left with Trent given room to create is a better option.

Henderson is not the answer to the issues we were having. We needed an injection of pace and creative play. Not a slower version of what we already had on the pitch


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Changing full backs midgame when you still need to keep out the USA isn't a good idea. Considering the high profile errors Trent has made defending this year then bringing him on for tripper isn't the answer. Bringing him on to play in front of tripper for sterling and pushing saka wide left with Trent given room to create is a better option.

Henderson is not the answer to the issues we were having. We needed an injection of pace and creative play. Not a slower version of what we already had on the pitch
		
Click to expand...

Worrying about keeping out USA is that exact same mentality that Southgate has - negative , defensive and worrying about not getting beat first , it’s why Rice despite plodding around was left on the pitch. And it’s also why England despite how so much bright creative talent will never flourish under Southgate and his bumbling interview afterwards highlighted it 

Tripper was poor , he was getting dragged all over the place and offering nothing on the ball - Trent is not a wide attacker , they needed someone to be able to provide quality from deep and wide - something that TAA has been doing better than anyone in Europe for a number of years - “high profile errors” - it’s media created nonsense that people like you swallow up to shoot down young players. TAA would be starting for all those top teams in the World Cup - same for Foden yet Southgate can’t fit them in 😂

And told you exactly why Henderson was brought on , to try and get the midfield higher , the press higher and get players closer to Kane who was dropping far too deep because the midfield was giving him nothing 

It should have been imo Henderson for Rice , TAA for Tripper and Foden for Either Sterling or Mount - press USA higher , get players closer to Kane , Sterling and Saka - but that’s far too attacking for Southgate who is holding that bunch of players back.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Worrying about keeping out USA is that exact same mentality that Southgate has - negative , defensive and worrying about not getting beat first , it’s why Rice despite plodding around was left on the pitch. And it’s also why England despite how so much bright creative talent will never flourish under Southgate and his bumbling interview afterwards highlighted it

Tripper was poor , he was getting dragged all over the place and offering nothing on the ball - Trent is not a wide attacker , they needed someone to be able to provide quality from deep and wide - something that TAA has been doing better than anyone in Europe for a number of years - “high profile errors” - it’s media created nonsense that people like you swallow up to shoot down young players. TAA would be starting for all those top teams in the World Cup - same for Foden yet Southgate can’t fit them in 😂

And told you exactly why Henderson was brought on , to try and get the midfield higher , the press higher and get players closer to Kane who was dropping far too deep because the midfield was giving him nothing

It should have been imo Henderson for Rice , TAA for Tripper and Foden for Either Sterling or Mount - press USA higher , get players closer to Kane , Sterling and Saka - but that’s far too attacking for Southgate who is holding that bunch of players back.
		
Click to expand...

Henderson for rice is exactly what cost us the euro final

Even the Italians have admitted it lifted them seeing our best midfielder on the night leaving the pitch 

Henderson was the incorrect option and "you have been told"? By whom? Yourself?


----------



## fundy (Nov 26, 2022)

Good to see Chesney proving hes still the 1 and only


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Henderson for rice is exactly what cost us the euro final

Even the Italians have admitted it lifted them seeing our best midfielder on the night leaving the pitch

Henderson was the incorrect option and "you have been told"? By whom? Yourself?
		
Click to expand...

Henderson for Rice didn’t “cost England” the Euro final 🤦‍♂️ - nonsense imagine the player going off was a West Ham player and you accuse others of bias 🙄

It was 1-1 when Rice went off with Italy dominating after England , typically under Southgate dropped deep after taking the lead. Is that why you are holding a grudge against him - because you have this weird idea he is the reason why England didn’t win the Euros 😂😂 - must be a lot of pins in the voodoo doll of him 



fundy said:



			Good to see Chesney proving hes still the 1 and only 

Click to expand...

The penalty save was great but that touch for the follow up was even better


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Henderson for Rice didn’t “cost England” the Euro final 🤦‍♂️ - nonsense imagine the player going off was a West Ham player and you accuse others of bias 🙄

It was 1-1 when Rice went off with Italy dominating after England , typically under Southgate dropped deep after taking the lead. Is that why you are holding a grudge against him - because you have this weird idea he is the reason why England didn’t win the Euros 😂😂 - must be a lot of pins in the voodoo doll of him



The penalty save was great but that touch for the follow up was even better
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 45347

Click to expand...

sorry but how does that show that “Henderson cost England the Euros”



*Declan Rice* Offered more than Phillips offensively but largely succeeded in his main task of stopping Italy slicing through. *Exhausted when substituted.*

*Henderson* (for Rice, 74) Pierced the Italy defence with a lovely ball to Sterling and helped change the flow in extra time.

So how exactly did it cost England the Euros considering they lost it on penalties 🤷‍♂️

But at least we know that you definitely aren’t biased and don’t hold grudges 😂😂😂


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			sorry but how does that show that “Henderson cost England the Euros”



*Declan Rice* Offered more than Phillips offensively but largely succeeded in his main task of stopping Italy slicing through. *Exhausted when substituted.*

*Henderson* (for Rice, 74) Pierced the Italy defence with a lovely ball to Sterling and helped change the flow in extra time.

So how exactly did it cost England the Euros considering they lost it on penalties 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Did you watch the game? Henderson over cooked 90% of his passes. It was frustrating.

Thought you were boycotting this world cup or is that now over ?


----------



## IainP (Nov 26, 2022)

Still controversial...
"Cristiano Ronaldo a 'total genius' for winning Portugal penalty - Fifa"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63766703


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 26, 2022)

So much effort wasted by KSA


----------



## IainP (Nov 26, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Good job we did play the Saudis yesterday 😀
		
Click to expand...

Eh? You may need to explain..


----------



## Piece (Nov 26, 2022)

Saudi Arabia played far better in a 2-0 loss than Eng did last night 🤐

Reflecting on last night, it wasn't necessarily the substitutions who did or didn't not come on, it was more about the fact the tactics didn't visibly change. Subs were made for the same positions. I was hoping that Gareth had a plan B or C; maybe three at the back, five in midfield, or something to change the dynamic. Clearly not, as he wanted to secure a point from a cr4p performance of his making.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

Piece said:



			Saudi Arabia played far better in a 2-0 loss than Eng did last night 🤐

Reflecting on last night, it wasn't necessarily the substitutions who did or didn't not come on, it was more about the fact the tactics didn't visibly change. Subs were made for the same positions. I was hoping that Gareth had a plan B or C; maybe three at the back, five in midfield, or something to change the dynamic. Clearly not, as he wanted to secure a point from a cr4p performance of his making.
		
Click to expand...

Yes it did seem more plan A1,a2 rather than b and c

Tuesday will be the true reflection of last night, hopefully we see more of the Iran performance

On the face of it 4 points , 6 scored 2 let in isn't a poor record

Everyone has bad games


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 26, 2022)

IainP said:



			Eh? You may need to explain..
		
Click to expand...

Yes, first a typo…not the first time I’ve put didn’t and comes out did😀

And then, just typed it and Poland scored !

But Saudis played well, all over Poland , just couldn’t finish. With our luck, they would have finished😂


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 26, 2022)

Piece said:



			Saudi Arabia played far better in a 2-0 loss than Eng did last night 🤐

Reflecting on last night, it wasn't necessarily the substitutions who did or didn't not come on, it was more about the fact the tactics didn't visibly change. Subs were made for the same positions. I was hoping that Gareth had a plan B or C; maybe three at the back, five in midfield, or something to change the dynamic. Clearly not, as he wanted to secure a point from a cr4p performance of his making.
		
Click to expand...

Some teams try and go out and win games. Especially the bigger teams like France, Brazil, Spain, etc. Saudi Arabia tried.

England try and avoid defeat. They try and stop the opposition from playing. Southgate is the classic negative coach for the FA. I suspect the game versus Iran was a freak result, rather than Southgate's genius as a coach


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

This mbappe guy is a little bit good....


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 26, 2022)

The tragic thing is, if Southgate was manager of France, Mbappe would be on the bench as an unused sub.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The tragic thing is, if Southgate was manager of France, Mbappe would be on the bench as an unused sub.
		
Click to expand...

Come on , Southgate is our second most successful manager, we should show him a little respect and see how the tournament finishes , rather than starts


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Come on , Southgate is our second most successful manager, we should show him a little respect and see how the tournament finishes , rather than starts
		
Click to expand...

That isn't saying much to be fair.


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Come on , Southgate is our second most successful manager, we should show him a little respect and see how the tournament finishes , rather than starts
		
Click to expand...

Im sure all of the armchair experts think they could do better!!


----------



## Slime (Nov 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



*Some teams try and go out and win games. Especially the bigger teams like France, Brazil, Spain, etc. Saudi Arabia tried.*

England try and avoid defeat. They try and stop the opposition from playing. Southgate is the classic negative coach for the FA. I suspect the game versus Iran was a freak result, rather than Southgate's genius as a coach
		
Click to expand...

You forgot to mention Argentina and Germany.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Im sure all of the armchair experts think they could do better!!
		
Click to expand...

I think most armchair experts would put have us line up with all the attacking players possible in the hope we win 8-7


----------



## Imurg (Nov 26, 2022)

Soooo....
Are we all rooting for Mexico tonight..?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 26, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Soooo....
Are we all rooting for Mexico tonight..?
		
Click to expand...

Viva Mexico 😎


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 26, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Im sure all of the armchair experts think they could do better!!
		
Click to expand...

Urmmm, nope. I doubt it. Just like all those that have criticised Maguire or TAA over the last year or so don't believe they could actually play better if picked to play for Man Utd, Liverpool or England  .

Nor is it likely they'd do better at managing United than Ole.

However, Southgate is a failed Middlesbrough manager. He just isn't very good at all.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 26, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Question
Does Southgate need to rest Kane against Wales?

He looks tired
We will need him fresh for the QF
Thoughts
		
Click to expand...

Thought a WC in the middle of the season would suit us .
Why is Kane so tired ?
He hasn’t played that much.


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Come on , Southgate is our second most successful manager, we should show him a little respect and see how the tournament finishes , rather than starts
		
Click to expand...

Just not respecting his decision to bring on Henderson?


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 26, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thought a WC in the middle of the season would suit us .
Why is Kane so tired ?
He hasn’t played that much.
		
Click to expand...

Has he not played every game for Spurs, and virtually 90 minutes every time?


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The tragic thing is, if Southgate was manager of France, Mbappe would be on the bench as an unused sub.
		
Click to expand...

Totally disagree, think he could be a good left back. 👍


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 26, 2022)

I'd hate to see Montiel's reaction if he actually got hit in the grid🤣🤣


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 26, 2022)

I can't believe he didn't put Foden on last night. The pace of Saka and Sterling was having no effect as their full backs were quick as well. They were well organised defensively and Foden's guile and ability along with Grealish would have been ideal. But he persisted with Mount who offered nothing. And when he brought Henderson on I nearly dropped my pint. Absolutely flabbergasting that he thought another turgid player who can't create anything is what was needed. Just bizarre really. But USA clearly played for a draw in the hope they can go and beat Iran, while Gareth was never going to go all out for the win and risk losing it - just not in his nature at all. Plan was obviously to steal a 1-0 win from a set piece or something then be able to rest players against Wales - don't really have that luxury now if we want to ensure we top the group. They will obviously want to spoil our party before they pack their bags and go home.


----------



## Imurg (Nov 26, 2022)

This is, probably, the first time since the Euros that I've watched any amount of footy.....
Is it a thing these days that as soon as any contact is made above the shoulder that hands are flung to the eyes as if they've had acid sprayed on them..?
And then fling yourself to the ground as if you've been shot?
I'm surprised there aren't more Guide dogs on the pitch as most of the players must be blind by now........


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 26, 2022)

Bitterly disappointed with the England performance last night for a few reasons.

We looked flat and complacement, as if we just had to turn up and it was going to be a comfy win. Other big sides getting done and outfought obviously went amiss in the hype from the Iran game. The USA looked like they had done their homework and tactically outclassed Southgate.

Southgate starting Kane when he clearly wasn't anywhere near match fit. Wilson is more than capable of coming in for a game and letting Kane recover.

Taking Maddison when he's clearly injured and not calling up Toney as a replacement. Maddison will be fortunate to make the Wales game and hasn't had one full training session in over 2 weeks.

Southgate genuinely playing for a draw after 60 minutes and being quite happy with the result.

I pointed out Maguire was a bit shakey in the first game so only fair I say he was superb last night. I wouldn't change too much for the Wales game, I'd still go with the pace of Saka and on the right but bring in Grealish on the left and give Foden a start in the middle. Wales have been so bad in the first two games, we need to win the group in style.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 26, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Bitterly disappointed with the England performance last night for a few reasons.

We looked flat and complacement, as if we just had to turn up and it was going to be a comfy win. Other big sides getting done and outfought obviously went amiss in the hype from the Iran game. The USA looked like they had done their homework and tactically outclassed Southgate.

Southgate starting Kane when he clearly wasn't anywhere near match fit. Wilson is more than capable of coming in for a game and letting Kane recover.

Taking Maddison when he's clearly injured and not calling up Toney as a replacement. Maddison will be fortunate to make the Wales game and hasn't had one full training session in over 2 weeks.

Southgate genuinely playing for a draw after 60 minutes and being quite happy with the result.

I pointed out Maguire was a bit shakey in the first game so only fair I say he was superb last night. I wouldn't change too much for the Wales game, I'd still go with the pace of Saka and on the right but bring in Grealish on the left and give Foden a start in the middle. Wales have been so bad in the first two games, we need to win the group in style.
		
Click to expand...

I suspect there is a chance Toney was never going to he picked, as Southgate would have known about the FA gambling charge to be announced. If he was picked, undoubtedly that would become another distraction, as there's be a lot if focus on that by the media.


----------



## srixon 1 (Nov 26, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Soooo....
Are we all rooting for Mexico tonight..?
		
Click to expand...

Oh yes. 😁


----------



## Imurg (Nov 26, 2022)

And what are the chances of it being 11 a side by the end..?


----------



## fundy (Nov 26, 2022)

Imurg said:



			And what are the chances of it being 11 a side by the end..?
		
Click to expand...

about 75% if you believe the betting


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Just not respecting his decision to bring on Henderson?
		
Click to expand...

Disagreeing with a decision and completely ripping a manager to shreds over every decision are entirely different situations


Orikoru said:



			I can't believe he didn't put Foden on last night. The pace of Saka and Sterling was having no effect as their full backs were quick as well. They were well organised defensively and Foden's guile and ability along with Grealish would have been ideal. But he persisted with Mount who offered nothing. And when he brought Henderson on I nearly dropped my pint. Absolutely flabbergasting that he thought another turgid player who can't create anything is what was needed. Just bizarre really. But USA clearly played for a draw in the hope they can go and beat Iran, while Gareth was never going to go all out for the win and risk losing it - just not in his nature at all. Plan was obviously to steal a 1-0 win from a set piece or something then be able to rest players against Wales - don't really have that luxury now if we want to ensure we top the group. They will obviously want to spoil our party before they pack their bags and go home.
		
Click to expand...

Problem I have with Henderson coming on is he wasn't fit enough for the last euros , he went. Maigure you could understand as our centre back options are shocking .. not midfield we well stocked , Henderson was known for his work rate and athleticism.. however he is 32 and isn't as quick as he was.. he is also isn't in the best of form right now.

So to see him again in the team when you have Gallagher and Phillips there who are the future players , plus who can do a very good job I find it annoying that Henderson is still in the squad

He isn't Gerrard or lampard or scholes .. hopefully will be his last tournament

He isn't like a modric or a pirlo who don't rely on pace ..


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Has he not played every game for Spurs, and virtually 90 minutes every time?
		
Click to expand...

What’s he going to be like in May.?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2022)

😂😂

Anyway - how bad do Argentine look , toothless , no idea how they are supposed to be set up but all the players just looking to Messi to carry them


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Urmmm, nope. I doubt it. Just like all those that have criticised Maguire or TAA over the last year or so don't believe they could actually play better if picked to play for Man Utd, Liverpool or England  .

Nor is it likely they'd do better at managing United than Ole.

However, Southgate is a failed Middlesbrough manager. He just isn't very good at all.
		
Click to expand...

Southgate is a very good coach, but a manager is different, Middlesbrough he will have had to manage things like transfers .. international "management" is an entirely different ball game and tbh he suits it 

He knows so many of this squad from the under 21s and they work for him 

Bad coach's don't make finals


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂

Anyway - how bad do Argentine look , toothless , no idea how they are supposed to be set up but all the players just looking to Messi to carry them
		
Click to expand...

How's the boycott of Qatar going? Where are the morals


----------



## fundy (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			How's the boycott of Qatar going? Where are the morals
		
Click to expand...


Give it a rest, its gone beyond boring


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 26, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			What’s he going to be like in May.?
		
Click to expand...

Tired, if he continues to play full games twice a week. The games have come thick and fast for the first part of season. Sometimes it might only take a week or 2 to freshen up and get some decent recovery time. If World Cup was in summer, nations usually have 3-4 weeks to recover before tournament starts


----------



## srixon 1 (Nov 26, 2022)

Messi just tripped his self up there.


----------



## Imurg (Nov 26, 2022)

srixon 1 said:



			Messi just tripped his self up there.
		
Click to expand...

And what a poor free kick...


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Tired, if he continues to play full games twice a week. The games have come thick and fast for the first part of season. Sometimes it might only take a week or 2 to freshen up and get some decent recovery time. If World Cup was in summer, nations usually have 3-4 weeks to recover before tournament starts
		
Click to expand...

Yes but we’re only half way through the season.
He looked ok against Iran

Might be the heat it affects people differently.
That’s where good squad management comes in.
Has GS got that.


----------



## fundy (Nov 26, 2022)

srixon 1 said:



			Messi just tripped his self up there.
		
Click to expand...

must be a bit of a culture shock going from playing with Mbappe and Neymar et al to this lot


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Yea but he won’t, he’ll play his favourites and that’s it.
		
Click to expand...

Is it his favs or his trusted players? And saying that .  Maybe he doesn't trust foden still after his rule break and sending him home from the England camp before


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 26, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but we’re only half way through the season.
He looked ok against Iran

Might be the heat it affects people differently.
That’s where good squad management comes in.
Has GS got that.
		
Click to expand...

If Paula Radcliffe had played against Iran in that match, immediately after running a marathon, she'd have looked OK.

We also don't know how tired he really is. I know Conte mentioned it, but that could just as easily be an excuse rather than being sincere. If his team don't do so well, and therefore he is another player who doesn't shine, then people say it is because he is tired. Maybe he isn't, maybe the team just didn't play well and therefore looked tired? If England go and beat Wales and Kane scores 2 or 3 goals, he might look fit again


----------



## fundy (Nov 26, 2022)

Turns out hes still got it


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			must be a bit of a culture shock going from playing with Mbappe and Neymar et al to this lot
		
Click to expand...

That’s not a bad hit 😂

This Argentina team are supposed to be full of bright young talent like Fernandez , Alvarez , Martinez but then they still have people like Di Maria dribbling up his backside going nowhere


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

fundy said:



			Turns out hes still got it 

Click to expand...

He never lost it. The best that's ever played football


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Is it his favs or his trusted players? And saying that .  *Maybe he doesn't trust foden still after his rule break and sending him home from the England camp before*

Click to expand...

A top coach should look beyond that for the good of the team. He has to rise above it and see what he offers City week in week out and get him doing the same for England.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Is it his favs or his trusted players? And saying that .  Maybe he doesn't trust foden still after his rule break and sending him home from the England camp before
		
Click to expand...

If he dosnt trust him why take him.
It’s silly not to play your best players because of a historic mistake.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A top coach should look beyond that for the good of the team. He has to rise above it and see what he offers City week in week out and get him doing the same for England.
		
Click to expand...

Takes a long to win back trust tho doesn't it? He is a massively talented player but surrounded by superstars at citeh where as he brought on grealish who has proven he can play fantastic football and hold the ball up when no offence to villa fans surrounded by average


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			If he dosnt trust him why take him.
It’s silly not to play your best players because of a historic mistake.
		
Click to expand...

We all wanted him on , but then grealish was a great option and did exactly what was needed which was hold the ball up the other end of the pitch and win free kicks (which carved a chance)


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			We all wanted him on , but then grealish was a great option and did exactly what was needed which was hold the ball up the other end of the pitch and win free kicks (which carved a chance)
		
Click to expand...

Can Grealish and Foden not play in the same 11?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Takes a long to win back trust tho doesn't it? He is a massively talented player but surrounded by superstars at citeh where as he brought on grealish who has proven he can play fantastic football and hold the ball up when no offence to villa fans surrounded by average
		
Click to expand...

Why waste time proving a point, and getting knocked out through a lack of creativity? Managers have to deal with different characters and personalities all of the time. Sometimes they have to suck up an incident if it means they win games. That's the ultimate aim, isn't it?


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Can Grealish and Foden not play in the same 11?
		
Click to expand...

Yes, however he picked your lad rashford instead of foden 

Who had scored Monday and looks to be in fine form himself

We have a very strong squad. Whoever he doesn't bring on if we don't win it will always be oh he should have brought on him!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			We all wanted him on , but then grealish was a great option and did exactly what was needed which was hold the ball up the other end of the pitch and win free kicks (which carved a chance)
		
Click to expand...

Yes I agree but putting Foden on for Mount would not fundamentally have changed the main objective for GS which is defend and don’t lose.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Why waste time proving a point, and getting knocked out through a lack of creativity? Managers have to deal with different characters and personalities all of the time. Sometimes they have to suck up an incident if it means they win games. That's the ultimate aim, isn't it?
		
Click to expand...

We aren't out yet. Not even close. Only a 4 goal loss will get us out so we will judge in the next phase 

It reminds me entirely of euros when everyone was banging on that grealish has to come on...has to.. must do. How can he not bring on grealish

Started the final in the end didn't he?


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I agree but putting Foden on for Mount would not fundamentally have changed the main objective for GS which is defend and don’t lose.
		
Click to expand...

Southgate is paid to make the big calls, we avoided defeat, basically qualified.. think we can put that done as first objective achieved


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A top coach should look beyond that for the good of the team. He has to rise above it and see what he offers City week in week out and get him doing the same for England.
		
Click to expand...

Southgate was poor as Middlesbrough manager playing defensive negative football , as England U21 manager he wasn’t much better. As England manager in 2018 he set pieced his way to a semi final but lost any game when he came up against a decent side 

The Euros was the best chance since 96 for England to win and again he was found wanting - he had at his disposal some of the best talent in Europe , players that star for the best managers in the world but he cannot adapt , he cant change as the game goes , and he can’t develop away from a “must not lose” mentality. 

There has been lots of talk about Sven wasting the golden generation but at least there were a lot of strong nations to battle against - Southgate is going to waste a lot more and during a period where there isn’t a stand out national team. 

Every single top manager would find a place for the likes of Foden , TAA , Grealish , Maddison etc - Southgate finds a way to justify keeping them sat on the bench


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 26, 2022)

It'll be interesting to see how he fits Maddison into his team, well if southgate grows himself a pair of los cajones that is.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Southgate is paid to make the big calls, we avoided defeat, basically qualified.. think we can put that done as first objective achieved
		
Click to expand...

Yes I can’t argue with that .
But it breeds confidence to play well, but not warming the bench.


----------



## srixon 1 (Nov 26, 2022)

Wales will have to go for it if they want to win by four clear goals on Tuesday. I can see that creating lots of chances for England so should be an easy win.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I can’t argue with that .
But it breeds confidence to play well, but not warming the bench.
		
Click to expand...

Would you rather win the world cup playing Southgate football 

Or 

Play all guns blazing and lose the final 3-2?

No option to win it playing sexy


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 26, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It'll be interesting to see how he fits Maddison into his team, well if southgate grows himself a pair of los cajones that is.
		
Click to expand...

He could take Mounts place.
After that display his place must be up for grabs.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Yes, however he picked your lad rashford instead of foden

Who had scored Monday and looks to be in fine form himself

We have a very strong squad. Whoever he doesn't bring on if we don't win it will always be oh he should have brought on him!
		
Click to expand...

In my opinion, if England have one player who stands out above the rest, and has the potential to be regarded as one of best in world by all, it is probably Foden. Bellingham might not be far behind, though still very young. So, I very much believe Foden should be first on team sheet as far as attacking midfielders are concerned. Rashford, Sako and Sterling are all very good players, and very similar. I like Grealish, because he offers something different to those 3. If Rashford, Sako or Sterling had not got on last night, there would be much less suprise by the English public. So, I don't think I'm the only one that thinks Foden must be a key player for England?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			We aren't out yet. Not even close. Only a 4 goal loss will get us out so we will judge in the next phase
		
Click to expand...

No, absolutely. I was exaggerating the point. We will likely qualify, job done at this stage.

I just see Foden as a top talent who can unlock defences. To not use him is a criminal waste, imo, particularly in game where we were incredibly uninspiring.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Would you rather win the world cup playing Southgate football

Or

Play all guns blazing and lose the final 3-2?

No option to win it playing sexy
		
Click to expand...

We played Southgate football in the Euros .
Lost the final to one of the worst Italian sides I have ever seen.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Would you rather win the world cup playing Southgate football

Or

Play all guns blazing and lose the final 3-2?

No option to win it playing sexy
		
Click to expand...

Are those the only options?

You are saying England cannot win by playing attacking football, but can win by playing boring football like when Greece won Euros?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 26, 2022)

On tonight's game, massive disappointment. I was really looking forward to it but Mexico have offered nothing and argentina look disjointed.


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			If Paula Radcliffe had played against Iran in that match, immediately after running a marathon, she'd have looked OK.

We also don't know how tired he really is. I know Conte mentioned it, but that could just as easily be an excuse rather than being sincere. If his team don't do so well, and therefore he is another player who doesn't shine, then people say it is because he is tired. Maybe he isn't, maybe the team just didn't play well and therefore looked tired? If England go and beat Wales and Kane scores 2 or 3 goals, he might look fit again
		
Click to expand...

I dont think it’s a case of Kane being tired you could say that about the whole team, watching Kane play live gives you a different perspective of the way he plays, it’s very noticeable how little sprints he makes it’s more about his movement and awareness of other teamates. 

I’ve watched nearly all the Spurs games on tv so far this season and if you don’t understand the way he plays some might say he looks tired in every game.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 26, 2022)

Great goal.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 26, 2022)

What a goal👏👏👏👏


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Are those the only options?

You are saying England cannot win by playing attacking football, but can win by playing boring football like when Greece won Euros?
		
Click to expand...

Not at all. That's just the bias of people assuming Southgates football is pure negative


We weren't saying it Monday , he even went for it when 3-0 up he didn't just bring on defenders to see it out 

At the euros we beat Germany, smashed up the Ukraine, then beat Denmark (who were playing for Ericson so were well up for it)

We then took the lead against Italy 

Now in all those games we all felt pure joy no?

Some of England's best moments in our lifetimes? 

We lost on pens. Hardly a battering aswell


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No, absolutely. I was exaggerating the point. We will likely qualify, job done at this stage.

I just see Foden as a top talent who can unlock defences. To not use him is a criminal waste, imo, particularly in game where we were incredibly uninspiring.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe he can't look past the ridiculous haircut that makes him look like Stan from eminem


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Maybe he can't look past the ridiculous haircut that makes him look like Stan from eminem
		
Click to expand...

Well, that is a fair point 🤣


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Well, that is a fair point 🤣
		
Click to expand...

That's one thing I will give Henderson, very very very respectable hair cut.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 26, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			On tonight's game, massive disappointment. I was really looking forward to it but Mexico have offered nothing and argentina look disjointed.
		
Click to expand...

On a plus note, makes the last round of games more interesting. It is in the hands of all 4 teams to qualify, whilst each team can also get eliminated


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			On a plus note, makes the last round of games more interesting. It is in the hands of all 4 teams to qualify, whilst each team can also get eliminated
		
Click to expand...

Great for the neutral 👍


----------



## PieMan (Nov 26, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It'll be interesting to see how he fits Maddison into his team, well if southgate grows himself a pair of los cajones that is.
		
Click to expand...

Mate, Maddison won't play in this world cup.

Neither will TAA.

Expect the same starting XI against Wales.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 26, 2022)

PieMan said:



			Mate, Maddison won't play in this world cup.

Neither will TAA.

Expect the same starting XI against Wales.
		
Click to expand...

I suspect he'll start Foden at least. He usually reacts when public reaction tells him he is making a bit of a mess of it. Probably why he put Maddison is squad at all, although I agree it is unlikely he will play him


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 26, 2022)

Maddison is crocked. He's only been doing light work on his own and hasn't taken part in any sessions with the squad.

You can't start in a must win World Cup game with little or no high intensity training for over 2 weeks. He's essentially a cheerleader who will only get any minutes if we get to the semi finals or final and suffer other injuries.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Maddison is crocked. He's only been doing light work on his own and hasn't taken part in any sessions with the squad.

You can't start in a must win World Cup game with little or no high intensity training for over 2 weeks. He's essentially a cheerleader who will only get any minutes if we get to the semi finals or final and suffer other injuries.
		
Click to expand...

Who would have gone instead of Madison realistically? I mean yes he is injured but we have a much bigger squad this time so is covered 

Bowen was in but his form has been awful doesn't deserve it where as mad does .. least get him in and around the camp


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Who would have gone instead of Madison realistically? I mean yes he is injured but we have a much bigger squad this time so is covered

Bowen was in but his form has been awful doesn't deserve it where as mad does .. least get him in and around the camp
		
Click to expand...

Good question.

I would've taken another striker personally. I know Toney has trouble coming from the gambling issue but until he's found guilty he should've been in the squad. He offers something totally different to anyone else. The guy is a beast. His exclusion was Southgate playing politics and covering his own back, IMO.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Good question.

I would've taken another striker personally. I know Toney has trouble coming from the gambling issue but until he's found guilty he should've been in the squad. He offers something totally different to anyone else. The guy is a beast. His exclusion was Southgate playing politics and covering his own back, IMO.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think it's so much playing politics it's more he is about to be banned I reckon the fa stepped in

He is looking at a serious ban, possible 2 years 

I think Wilson is that option instead 

Shame Sancho's form has dropped off a cliff


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 26, 2022)

PieMan said:



			Mate, Maddison won't play in this world cup.

Neither will TAA.

Expect the same starting XI against Wales.
		
Click to expand...

I think i said earlier on that Maddison and TAA wont get a sniff.

Not using the squad will be Southgates downfall. 1st chance he gets to start Kalvin Phillips, whose played 54 mins all season, he'll take it.

Every team that have won the WC utilise their squad, not just the favourite 14.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Southgate was poor as Middlesbrough manager playing defensive negative football , as England U21 manager he wasn’t much better. As England manager in 2018 he set pieced his way to a semi final but lost any game when he came up against a decent side

The Euros was the best chance since 96 for England to win and again he was found wanting - he had at his disposal some of the best talent in Europe , players that star for the best managers in the world but he cannot adapt , he cant change as the game goes , and he can’t develop away from a “must not lose” mentality.

There has been lots of talk about Sven wasting the golden generation but at least there were a lot of strong nations to battle against - Southgate is going to waste a lot more and during a period where there isn’t a stand out national team.

Every single top manager would find a place for the likes of Foden , TAA , Grealish , Maddison etc - Southgate finds a way to justify keeping them sat on the bench
		
Click to expand...

Was he poor? Yes at Middleborough he had a win % of 29% but he also attracted praise from one of the best managers in premier League history

In December 2007, Arsenal manager Arsène Wenger suggested Southgate as one of several English managers who were "all good enough" to manage the national team

He also that season took Middlesbrough out of the relegation zone to 13th , smashing city 8-1 on the final day . Biggest win in premier league for them

His u21 record is a win %  of 73% that's not bad at all. How can that be bad? In any way shape or form. Bearing in mind the u21s often get robbed of talent if they are deemed good enough for the full team so can't always get a core group of players 

His England record is 60% win rate 

Euro final.. our first manager final since 1966 

He may be boring but he is by no means a poor manager.


----------



## BrianM (Nov 26, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I think i said earlier on that Maddisonand TAA wont get a sniff.

Not using the squad will be Southgates downfall. 1st chance he gets to start Kalvin Phillips, whose played 54 mins all season, he'll take it.

Every team that have won the WC utilise their squad, not just the favourite 14.
		
Click to expand...

The squad has to be used, if not what's the point.
On another note on the squad, players are training and playing in extreme temperature's which surely is going to have an effect on their work effort with games so close together, that's another reason to rotate.
England have one of the best squads, especially attacking options, the wrong man is in charge of the team in my opinion.
He doesn't let the players play with any sort of freedom.


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I don't think it's so much playing politics it's more he is about to be banned I reckon the fa stepped in

He is looking at a serious ban, possible 2 years

I think Wilson is that option instead

Shame Sancho's form has dropped off a cliff
		
Click to expand...

It depends on the nature of the bets. It is a bit of a mess but if Southgate wanted him, he'd be there. The fact he's jam packed the squad with midfielders is a mistake. 

It's a shame about Sancho and Bowen. I'd rather one of them over a known injured player. I also wonder if Maddison knew he was badly injured and kept quiet to be part of the squad, which has come to light and angered Southgate.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 26, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Was he poor? Yes at Middleborough he had a win % of 29% but he also attracted praise from one of the best managers in premier League history

In December 2007, Arsenal manager Arsène Wenger suggested Southgate as one of several English managers who were "all good enough" to manage the national team

He also that season took Middlesbrough out of the relegation zone to 13th , smashing city 8-1 on the final day . Biggest win in premier league for them

His u21 record is a win %  of 73% that's not bad at all. How can that be bad? In any way shape or form. Bearing in mind the u21s often get robbed of talent if they are deemed good enough for the full team so can't always get a core group of players

His England record is 60% win rate

Euro final.. our first manager final since 1966

He may be boring but he is by no means a poor manager.
		
Click to expand...

Virtually all football managers say very nice things about other football managers, so I would read nothing into what Wenger said.

Did Southgate get sacked from Middlesbrough? 

Even poor managers will have good results from time to time. Doesn't make them great managers. 

I've no idea what a typical win rate is for England. But, given most of their games are against poor sides, I'd almost imagine at least 50% of games should be an easy win? For example, surely even any of us on this forum could manage to get a win if we managed England versus the likes of San Marino?


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 26, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Virtually all football managers say very nice things about other football managers, so I would read nothing into what Wenger said.

Did Southgate get sacked from Middlesbrough?

Even poor managers will have good results from time to time. Doesn't make them great managers.

I've no idea what a typical win rate is for England. But, given most of their games are against poor sides, I'd almost imagine at least 50% of games should be an easy win? For example, surely even any of us on this forum could manage to get a win if we managed England versus the likes of San Marino?
		
Click to expand...

How many great managers have been sacked over the years?

Jose , very good manager. Been sacked a few times 

Raneri sacked by Chelsea  , went on to win the title 

He took over Middlesbrough from Steve McLaren when he went to manage England. It was his first gig and had to come with some talent leaving the club like Jimmy Floyd.  .

He is no where near as bad as people make out 

He was a pen shoot out away from being a national hero


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 26, 2022)

Maddison isn’t even fit,so it’s hardly a big call to say he won’t get a game.
Personally I can’t see why he was taken.
If Senegal had taken Mane in the hope they’d get to the latter stages & he’d be fit,I’d understand that.
But it’s James Maddison,even if he was fit he’d be lucky to get game time imo:


----------



## JRS7 (Nov 27, 2022)

Interesting game between England and the United States of America. One big chance and Kane didn't put it away. Could have been 1-0 to England, but England will take 0-0. I wouldn't risk Maddison due to injury and lack of experience now. My team for Wales:
------------Pickford
Trippier-Stones-Maguire-Shaw
Henderson(c)-Bellingham
Saka-------Mount------Sterling
-------------Wilson

Kane off form and also needs a rest. Wilson was bright when he came on in the first game and Henderson bright in the second (with the added bonus of being able to be a captain). Grealish to come on at some stage on the left to open the game up if necessary. Alexander-Arnold also an option for a more attacking full/wing back.


----------



## Smiffy (Nov 27, 2022)

Southgate has selected his team for the final.......













Brazil.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Nov 27, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			The tragic thing is, if Southgate was manager of France, Mbappe would be on the bench as an unused sub.
		
Click to expand...

I really cannot understand the critics of Southgate.
He always builds a good team strength and strategy from players who are not really 'world class'.
Over performs on every level.


----------



## Slime (Nov 27, 2022)

JRS7 said:



			Interesting game between England and the United States of America. One big chance and Kane didn't put it away. Could have been 1-0 to England, but England will take 0-0. I wouldn't risk Maddison due to injury and lack of experience now. My team for Wales:
Pickford
Trippier-Stones-Maguire-Shaw
Henderson(c)-Bellingham
Saka-Mount-Sterling
-------Wilson

Kane off form and also needs a rest. Wilson was bright when he came on in the first game and Henderson bright in the second (with the added bonus of being able to be a captain). Grealish to come on at some stage on the left to open the game up if necessary. Alexander-Arnold also an option for a more attacking full/wing back.
		
Click to expand...

I'm guessing you're a Liverpool supporter, no?


----------



## Blue in Munich (Nov 27, 2022)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I really cannot understand the critics of Southgate.
He always builds a good team strength and strategy from players who are not really 'world class'.
*Over performs on every level.*

Click to expand...

Goalless draws against Scotland & Wales and all their world class players is over performing on very level?

Get back under your bridge Doom.


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 27, 2022)

The best change to make is to stop playing so many balls across the back four especially Maguire and Stones, too slow and boring, press as a team higher up the pitch. 

Ditch Sterling and Mount, play Grealish and Foden to two players that are more positive and bring something different to the team. 

Put Henderson on the half time oranges 😂


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 27, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			The best change to make is to stop playing so many balls across the back four especially Maguire and Stones, too slow and boring, press as a team higher up the pitch.

Ditch Sterling and Mount, play Grealish and Foden to two players that are more positive and bring something different to the team.

Put Henderson on the half time oranges 😂
		
Click to expand...

thing thats the problem with getting foden off the bench.. his best position is from the left and thats sterling right now.. saka on right.. both scored vs iran.. saka is in great form for club.. and sterling plays well for england.. so getting him in is just timing

after the USA game there is a huge argument that foden should replace sterling as he isnt looking sharp

I do like the idea of foden and grealish in the team , I think they would really move us forward quickly and grealish would win a lot of free kicks


----------



## Smiffy (Nov 27, 2022)

Japan 11
Costa Rica 2

You heard it here first
😉😉😉


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 27, 2022)

Phil Foden created as many chances against the USA as Raheem Sterling, Mason Mount and Harry Kane.

Phil Foden did not play...


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 27, 2022)

Smiffy said:



			Japan 11
Costa Rica 2

You heard it here first
😉😉😉
		
Click to expand...

Is that how many bin bags the Japanese will fill after the game 😳


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 27, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Good question.

I would've taken another striker personally. I know Toney has trouble coming from the gambling issue but until he's found guilty he should've been in the squad. He offers something totally different to anyone else. The guy is a beast. His exclusion was Southgate playing politics and covering his own back, IMO.
		
Click to expand...

Yes totally agree.
Look at what Haarland has done as a direct CF, most defenders today can’t handle it.

As for GS what happened to only picking players in form ,does that include injured ones ?


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 27, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes totally agree.
Look at what Haarland has done as a direct CF, most defenders today can’t handle it.

As for GS what happened to only picking players in form ,does that include injured ones ?
		
Click to expand...

I think GS wanted that to be his original stance but as with all international management you soon notice that form means your "best 11" are often all over the place because nobody ever plays that well all together

I mean stones is great for england and hardly plays for city 

sterling always raises his game for england

you will notice he picks form players but also picks the players who got england to where they are 

loyal to the players who serve him well but also brings in some form players  like maddison, gallagher


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 27, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I think GS wanted that to be his original stance but as with all international management you soon notice that form means your "best 11" are often all over the place because nobody ever plays that well all together

I mean stones is great for england and hardly plays for city

sterling always raises his game for england

you will notice he picks form players but also picks the players who got england to where they are

loyal to the players who serve him well but also brings in some form players  like maddison, gallagher
		
Click to expand...

I would question his judgment then , don’t make silly comments like that then come up with a reason to not do it.

Sterling is a marmite player and he has more poor games than good ones.
Stones I agree but we’re not blessed with options in CB.
But upfront we are.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 27, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I would question his judgment then , don’t make silly comments like that then come up with a reason to not do it.

Sterling is a marmite player and he has more poor games than good ones.
Stones I agree but we’re not blessed with options in CB.
But upfront we are.
		
Click to expand...

fully agree at CB we are pretty much what we have got. there isnt many stand out players 

sterling does statistically perform for england at tournaments


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 27, 2022)

Smiffy said:



			Japan 11
Costa Rica 2

You heard it here first
😉😉😉
		
Click to expand...

It's going to be a heck of a second half 😆


----------



## Smiffy (Nov 27, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's going to be a heck of a second half 😆
		
Click to expand...

That's what I was just thinking...
Maybe I got it slightly wrong
🤔🤔🤔🤔


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Nov 27, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Goalless draws against Scotland & Wales and all their world class players is over performing on very level?

Get back under your bridge Doom.
		
Click to expand...

Southgate overperforms.....not the players.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 27, 2022)

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/vibe-with-five/id1638148943?i=1000587563553

That’s worth a listen.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/06yGtr0EbzK4lZd5t0P7xV?si=iqqTMouaTDibi0A5wGZrig


----------



## JRS7 (Nov 27, 2022)

Slime said:



			I'm guessing you're a Liverpool supporter, no?
		
Click to expand...

Tottenham. Why? I support England first and club second.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 27, 2022)

In the Belgium v Morocco game, is that the first time a referee has ever been asked to go to the monitor to rule a goal out for offside?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 27, 2022)

How are Belgium so bad


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 27, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			In the Belgium v Morocco game, is that the first time a referee has ever been asked to go to the monitor to rule a goal out for offside?
		
Click to expand...

.think he was asked if he thought the player interfered with play

As he was clearly off it was if the ref deems him to have affected the keeper


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 27, 2022)

Get in Morocco

Great goal

Watching to see our new defender (been injured) play, can see why we went for him, few clever balls from the back 

They look a good team rather than a one man team


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 27, 2022)

Oh Lukaku.  If you can't grow a beard don't try . No1 wants to see a public hair beard


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 27, 2022)

Yes Morocco!!


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 27, 2022)

Baffling Belgium, as good as Morocco have been…just baffling.


----------



## Piece (Nov 27, 2022)

Fantastic result! Fully deserved for Morocco.

That's a warning for Gareth. Belgium play like England, slow and ponderous. That won't cut it if we want to go far.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 27, 2022)

JRS7 said:



			Tottenham. Why? I support England first and club second.
		
Click to expand...

That wasnt the response @Slime expected 😁😁


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 27, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Baffling Belgium, as good as Morocco have been…just baffling.
		
Click to expand...

They're badly missing Lord Divock Origi.


----------



## Imurg (Nov 27, 2022)

Go Canada


----------



## Slime (Nov 27, 2022)

What a World Cup this is!


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 27, 2022)

What a goal. Redemption for his penalty miss


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 27, 2022)

This group is brilliant


----------



## srixon 1 (Nov 27, 2022)

This game could have a fair few goals the way Canada go forward.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 27, 2022)

Croatia,Germany and Belguim potentially exiting the WC at the group stage is not something i  thought i'd see.


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 27, 2022)

Why not put the flag up
It’s demoralising watching football


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 27, 2022)

I have a sneaky feeling an outsider could be in the final this year.


----------



## fundy (Nov 27, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I have a sneaky feeling an outsider could be in the final this year.
		
Click to expand...

Lets hope its England


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 27, 2022)

fundy said:



			Lets hope its England 

Click to expand...

I think there’s a difference in we’re coming home and it’s coming home 😖


----------



## Smiffy (Nov 27, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I have a sneaky feeling an outsider could be in the final this year.
		
Click to expand...

Sweden??


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 27, 2022)

Smiffy said:



			Sweden??
		
Click to expand...

Scotland 😉


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 27, 2022)

Good start by Spain but now they’re doing an England at the back, and what are the odds on a mistake and the Germans scoring.?
Go forward Spain and you’ll win


----------



## Slime (Nov 27, 2022)

I so want Spain to win this match.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 27, 2022)

To easy that.


----------



## Slime (Nov 27, 2022)

Good defensive line.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 27, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			To easy that.
		
Click to expand...

A reason why it was too easy 😄


----------



## Imurg (Nov 27, 2022)

Oh dear
How sad
Never mind..


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 27, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A reason why it was too easy 😄
		
Click to expand...

Yes Rudy can’t time his run.
But not even a challenge, they don’t know he’s offside.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 27, 2022)

Slime said:



			I so want Spain to win this match.
		
Click to expand...

yes I did  too, but watching how daft their goallie is, I’m starting to change my mind.
can’t he kick a ball?
He is asking for trouble, and he’s going to get it.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 27, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes Rudy can’t time his run.
But not even a challenge, they don’t know he’s offside.
		
Click to expand...

I know, it was an open goal for him and me 😄. Had he held his run for a split second he would have had the same space and time. They, Spain, got away with it.

On Germany, remarkable that they don't have a genuine number 9. They fill in with Havertz and Muller but they aren't the same. A country that size, with so many footballers..........


----------



## IanM (Nov 27, 2022)

Thinking similar.....
dribbling on your own goal line eventually gets you in trouble


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 27, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I have a sneaky feeling an outsider could be in the final this year.
		
Click to expand...

There really is no stand-out team, or no team without its flaws. Last week I put a couple of quid on Portugal at 14-1, they've got as good a chance as anyone. France have been pretty strong despite the injuries though.


----------



## Slime (Nov 27, 2022)

What a fabulous finish.


----------



## Imurg (Nov 27, 2022)

This rubbish way of taking goal kicks - with the full backes either side of the goalie - ...what thenhell is that all about?
They pushy it around for 30 seconds, getting nowhere and giving the opposition a chance, and then hoof it upfield quickly...
Don't get it......


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 27, 2022)

Imurg said:



			This rubbish way of taking goal kicks - with the full backes either side of the goalie - ...what thenhell is that all about?
They pushy it around for 30 seconds, getting nowhere and giving the opposition a chance, and then hoof it upfield quickly...
Don't get it......
		
Click to expand...

Bad enough watching it, then picture my Sunday team who insist on trying it on our muddy park pitches and imagine how well that goes. 😂


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 27, 2022)

Cracking last 20 minutes or so. Some proper football, 2 excellent goals.

Musiala for Germany was a pleasure to watch.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 27, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Cracking last 20 minutes or so. Some proper football, 2 excellent goals.

Musiala for Germany was a pleasure to watch.
		
Click to expand...

If only he'd have declared for England instead. We could have used him on Friday night - sat on the bench next to Foden.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 27, 2022)

Germany deserved the draw.
Some nice football but final ball not there 
Two very good goals.
I am a fan of a proper CF.


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 27, 2022)

Unpopular opinion on Musiala.....

Obviously a very good player with huge potential but currently overrated. His missed chances in both games very nearly put Germany out despite some nice touches. Also one of those players that isn't a striker, isn't a winger and isn't a number 10. Best off the left in a 4231 or 433 and England are loaded in that position with Sterling, Foden, Grealish and Rashford so he's no big miss. 

As a talent and potential wise Bellingham is twice the player.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 27, 2022)

Imurg said:



			This rubbish way of taking goal kicks - with the full backes either side of the goalie - ...what thenhell is that all about?
They pushy it around for 30 seconds, getting nowhere and giving the opposition a chance, and then hoof it upfield quickly...
Don't get it......
		
Click to expand...

like modern art. Just to be different.And if you rubbish it, it means you aren’t sophisticated enough in the subject.🙄


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 27, 2022)

Imurg said:



			This rubbish way of taking goal kicks - with the full backes either side of the goalie - ...what thenhell is that all about?
They pushy it around for 30 seconds, getting nowhere and giving the opposition a chance, and then hoof it upfield quickly...
Don't get it......
		
Click to expand...

The idea has been knocking around for a good few years.Pep started it at City and to be Frank it really was squeaky bum time. However now it is established and it works well.
However England are  complete and utter rammel at it. It is embarrassing watching England trying to play out.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 27, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			The idea has been knocking around for a good few years.Pep started it at City and to be Frank it really was squeaky bum time. However now it is established and it works well.
*However England are  complete and utter rammel at it. It is embarrassing watching England trying to play out*.
		
Click to expand...

Lets be honest, they're not set up for it. Pickford cant do it, Maguire has 2 left feet and even Pep doesnt trust Stones that much. 

Ramsdale,Dier, White are all comfortable of playing out from the back for their club sides. 

Watch Pickford, how many time there's a simple ball on but he chooses to play it long and they lose possession because hes panicked and as a team theyre not set up to hold up the long ball!!


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 27, 2022)

Imurg said:



			This rubbish way of taking goal kicks - with the full backes either side of the goalie - ...what thenhell is that all about?
They pushy it around for 30 seconds, getting nowhere and giving the opposition a chance, and then hoof it upfield quickly...
*Don't get it.*.....
		
Click to expand...

With respect, you need to understand how the teams who are successful at doing it set up tactically.

The best teams all have players who are comfortable on the ball. Its a system/style that has to be played throughout the side. 

When the fullbacks get the ball the midfield must be in position A to receive it otherwise it fails. It works well buy every player has to be switched on.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 27, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I know, it was an open goal for him and me 😄. Had he held his run for a split second he would have had the same space and time. They, Spain, got away with it.

On Germany, remarkable that they don't have a genuine number 9. They fill in with Havertz and Muller but they aren't the same. A country that size, with so many footballers..........
		
Click to expand...

Havertz is a strange player. Lots of potential and hype around him but from what i've seen i cant figure out where his best position is.

I'm sure BlueinMunich or the other Chelsea fans could tell us.


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 27, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			With respect, you need to understand how the teams who are successful at doing it set up tactically.

The best teams all have players who are comfortable on the ball. Its a system/style that has to be played throughout the side.

When the fullbacks get the ball the midfield must be in position A to receive it otherwise it fails. *It works well buy every player has to be switched on*.
		
Click to expand...

...and therein lies the problem with England....there are never any options for the player who is on the ball....no one moves to find space, and no one else moves to find space to receive the ball off the player who has just moved to find space.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 27, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			...and therein lies the problem with England....there are never any options for the player who is on the ball....no one moves to find space, and no one else moves to find space to receive the ball off the player who has just moved to find space.
		
Click to expand...

It makes you wonder whats being coached.


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It makes you wonder whats being coached.
		
Click to expand...

But most of the players do it for their clubs don’t they, make that movement for the 2nd and 3rd pass? Why can’t they do it for England?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Havertz is a strange player. Lots of potential and hype around him but from what i've seen i cant figure out where his best position is.

I'm sure BlueinMunich or the other Chelsea fans could tell us.
		
Click to expand...

I don't watch Chelsea much but my impression of him is as a Lampard style player, a midfielder running through and feeding off a striker. Not a sole striker, where he has often been used. He looks lost there, as most midfielders do when the are played up top on their own.

As you say, he was talked about as the second coming when he arrived but I suspect he has had a bit of a bum deal and played out of position to cover holes up front.

I might be wrong, interested to hear what the Chelsea lads say.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It makes you wonder whats being coached.
		
Click to expand...

or what’s not being coached 😡


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			But most of the players do it for their clubs don’t they, make that movement for the 2nd and 3rd pass? Why can’t they do it for England?
		
Click to expand...

You could've said exactly the same about those who played under Hoddle/Sven/McClaren and Hodgson.

The last time England players produced club form for country was 1996. 

It's blatantly obvious to me that Southgate is a pragmatic,defensive coach. 

That 2nd half the other night was as rubbish as i've seen over the years. 1 simple tactical change without making a sub would've improved.

Instead Kane was dropping so far back for the ball he was playing as the 3rd centre back.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			You could've said exactly the same about those who played under Hoddle/Sven/McClaren and Hodgson.

The last time England players produced club form for country was 1996.

It's blatantly obvious to me that Southgate is a pragmatic,defensive coach.

That 2nd half the other night was as rubbish as i've seen over the years. 1 simple tactical change without making a sub would've improved.

Instead Kane was dropping so far back for the ball he was playing as the 3rd centre back.
		
Click to expand...

Why do we all, from time to time, get involved in doing something that we shouldn’t have to, that is not our responsibility but is the responsibility of others to do? Usually because we don’t trust the others to not muck it up or get it done quick enough…

I sense a bit of lack of trust and faith within the team to get things right whenever there is any risk or exposure involved - and often that lacking will be rooted in a sense that the leadership is not quite as it should be, and needs to be.  Words are fine, but results come from actions, and they often require faith and trust.


----------



## Crazyface (Nov 28, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			The idea has been knocking around for a good few years.Pep started it at City and to be Frank it really was squeaky bum time. However now it is established and it works well.
However England are  complete and utter rammel at it. It is embarrassing watching England trying to play out.
		
Click to expand...

I think the idea is to suck in the opposition and therefore create space behind the midfield. But it the people employed to do the passing about are bobbins at it, you're gonna give your supporters palpitations, and induce crys of beep beep LAUNCH IT !!!!!


----------



## Crazyface (Nov 28, 2022)

Having watch a bit of this WC Portugal could go well. They seem to be tough to score against and have got Ronaldo. (I'm a big fan of Ronnie and I've got the shirt, well from a few years ago you know the really smart one). On that subject, who's got the best kit?


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 28, 2022)

Team I want to start v Wales

Ramsdale.....
Walker, White, Maguire, Shaw
Phillips
Foden, Maddison, Grealish
Wilson

Some of the lads need a rest and with the heart of the team being city players, they should actually play good football.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Team I want to start v Wales

Ramsey
Walker, White, Maguire, Shaw
Phillips
Foden, Maddison, Grealish
Wilson

Some of the lads need a rest and with the heart of the team being city players, they should actually play good football.
		
Click to expand...

I feel like we're in for a hiding if we stick one of the opposition's midfielders in goal for us.

On a more serious note, never going to happen. We can't be resting players when we need a result to top the group. Maddison has not trained either apparently. Phillips can't be fit enough for a start. And White was clearly there as last resort back-up, that guy is not playing a minute.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 28, 2022)

Crazyface said:



			I think the idea is to suck in the opposition and therefore create space behind the midfield. But it the people employed to do the passing about are bobbins at it, you're gonna give your supporters palpitations, and induce crys of beep beep LAUNCH IT !!!!!
		
Click to expand...

The idea of playing out from the back.  Every player has a part to play.  

Firstly the keeper has to have a football brain, City have Ederson who is one of the best in the world so he makes it look easy. Whether that be a short or very long pass he is very good.
He will play it to mainly the defenders but if a press is on, a midfielder will drop and one touch pass to the left back or right back. If there is too much of a press he will play longer to bypass the press. If it is on a ball over the top to the centre forward.
However. We are talking about England.
Pickfords passing is not the best, but he is the best of the three keepers. He is not a natural footballer with vision. Even when the ball is passed to the back four, no one is showing from midfield. The USA press was not the best I have seen, in a sense of putting players/ ball in the corner. But England/Southgate could not figure out how to beat it. Other teams will now smell blood when England have a goal kick. I would be gobsmacked if Wales don’t pressure England.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 28, 2022)

Crazyface said:



			Having watch a bit of this WC Portugal could go well. They seem to be tough to score against and have got Ronaldo. (I'm a big fan of Ronnie and I've got the shirt, well from a few years ago you know the really smart one). On that subject, who's got the best kit?
		
Click to expand...

South Korea away kit is lovely.


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I feel like we're in for a hiding if we stick one of the opposition's midfielders in goal for us.

On a more serious note, never going to happen. We can't be resting players when we need a result to top the group. Maddison has not trained either apparently. Phillips can't be fit enough for a start. And White was clearly there as last resort back-up, that guy is not playing a minute.
		
Click to expand...

Oops my bad..... 

It wont happen no - but Id rather see these guys play than the ones currently getting a start. We just need to not lose heavily, and actually with that forward talent we would beat wales.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Oops my bad..... 

It wont happen no - but Id rather see these guys play than the ones currently getting a start. We just need to not lose heavily, and actually with that forward talent we would beat wales.
		
Click to expand...

It was mentioned earlier, but I also believe he will just put the exact same team out again for the third time.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			It was mentioned earlier, but I also believe he will just put the exact same team out again for the third time.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I fear your right.
But when we hear Kane and others look tired and leggy there is no excuse for it.
Use the squad that’s what it’s there for.
Any team picked from the England squad should beat Wales no problem.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			It was mentioned earlier, but I also believe he will just put the exact same team out again for the third time.
		
Click to expand...

If he leaves Foden out again, I think he should be sacked before kick off


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 28, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I fear your right.
But when we hear Kane and others look tired and leggy there is no excuse for it.
Use the squad that’s what it’s there for.
Any team picked from the England squad should beat Wales no problem.
		
Click to expand...

For me, we needed to win the USA game, then you might have seen a few players rested tomorrow as we'd have been more-or-less guaranteed top of the group. By not winning the game we've lost that luxury. If we can get an early goal or two then we have the chance to rest players second half.

As for your last sentence - how many times have we said that over the years for various opposition and not done the job?


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			As for your last sentence - how many times have we said that over the years for various opposition and not done the job?
		
Click to expand...

The Hungary game where he made wholesale changes and we got humped. Southgate won’t change a thing, he has his favourites and has his idea of how to play the game, he never sways from that.


----------



## fundy (Nov 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Team I want to start v Wales

Ramsdale.....
Walker, White, Maguire, Shaw
Phillips
Foden, Maddison, Grealish
Wilson

Some of the lads need a rest and with the heart of the team being city players, they should actually play good football.
		
Click to expand...

I know its only Wales but think we should start with 11.............


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			I know its only Wales but think we should start with 11.............
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 28, 2022)

Crazyface said:



			Having watch a bit of this WC Portugal could go well. They seem to be tough to score against and have got Ronaldo. (I'm a big fan of Ronnie and I've got the shirt, well from a few years ago you know the really smart one). On that subject, who's got the best kit?
		
Click to expand...

I like the French kit. The blue has gone darker and the gold sits nicely on it. Very classy.

I miss Peru, I love a diagonal strip, but sadly they did not qualify.

I really don't like the central black stripe on the Germany kit . They had a classic look, why mess with it?


----------



## fundy (Nov 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I feel like we're in for a hiding if we stick one of the opposition's midfielders in goal for us.

On a more serious note, never going to happen. We can't be resting players when we need a result to top the group. Maddison has not trained either apparently. Phillips can't be fit enough for a start. *And White was clearly there as last resort back-up, that guy is not playing a minute.*

Click to expand...

Yep no point picking a form player who would massively help the issues we have trying to play out from the back...................


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 28, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			The Hungary game where he made wholesale changes and we got humped. Southgate won’t change a thing, he has his favourites and has *his idea of how to play the game,* he never sways from that.
		
Click to expand...

And for me it is painful to watch ☹️


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 28, 2022)

fundy said:



			I know its only Wales but think we should start with 11.............
		
Click to expand...

Its all about resting legs! 

I did type Rice... no idea where he's gone


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 28, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			And for me it is painful to watch ☹️
		
Click to expand...

I couldn’t agree more, I’m yet to be convinced by anyone that he is getting the full potential out of this team.


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 28, 2022)

Cameroon keeper sent home from the tournament after he refused to change his playing style, what a plank.
I’ve just seen his heat map from the first game 😳🤣


----------



## sunshine (Nov 28, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I like the French kit. The blue has gone darker and the gold sits nicely on it. Very classy.

I miss Peru, I love a diagonal strip, but sadly they did not qualify.

I really don't like the central black stripe on the Germany kit . They had a classic look, why mess with it?
		
Click to expand...

France and Portugal 👍
France has been darker for a few years now, was dark at the last World Cup. 
Netherlands always looks good. 
I like the minimalist Denmark shirts, especially the black one. 

Germany kit looks rubbish, mid 90s thick stripe revival and it doesn’t work.


----------



## sunshine (Nov 28, 2022)

Imurg said:



			This rubbish way of taking goal kicks - with the full backes either side of the goalie - ...what thenhell is that all about?
They pushy it around for 30 seconds, getting nowhere and giving the opposition a chance, and then hoof it upfield quickly...
Don't get it......
		
Click to expand...

Ok I’m going to bite and state the obvious. The idea is to invite the press and draw the other team forward. This creates more space on the pitch. 

If people don’t understand this it’s no wonder they are going to criticise every England performance. I’m waiting for the posts harking back to the glory days of Graham Taylor.


----------



## Piece (Nov 28, 2022)

Great game this one!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 28, 2022)

sunshine said:



			France and Portugal 👍
France has been darker for a few years now, was dark at the last World Cup.
Netherlands always looks good.
I like the minimalist Denmark shirts, especially the black one.

Germany kit looks rubbish, mid 90s thick stripe revival and it doesn’t work.
		
Click to expand...

France - You are probably right and it has just taken me this long to notice . I'd make a terrible police witness.

I'd like the Netherlands more if they went a more vibrant orange. I think this looks a bit subdued.

Any minimalist looks good, I like old school


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 28, 2022)

sunshine said:



			Ok I’m going to bite and state the obvious. The idea is to invite the press and draw the other team forward. This creates more space on the pitch.

If people don’t understand this it’s no wonder they are going to criticise every England performance. I’m waiting for the posts harking back to the glory days of Graham Taylor.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think it's a problem understanding. The problem is a lot of teams try it despite not being good enough and they give away more chances than they benefit from. It only really works for City and Liverpool, everyone else should give it a wide berth.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Nov 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think it's a problem understanding. The problem is a lot of teams try it despite not being good enough and they give away more chances than they benefit from. It only really works for City and Liverpool, everyone else should give it a wide berth.
		
Click to expand...

Quite agree, 
Recently seen two or three really daft goals given away when playing it out from the goalie is NOT on due to the opposing forwards pressing them.
A big hoof up the park should be the answer in those circumstances, if nothing else it will tire them out.


----------



## fundy (Nov 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think it's a problem understanding. The problem is a lot of teams try it despite not being good enough and they give away more chances than they benefit from. It only really works for City and Liverpool, everyone else should give it a wide berth.
		
Click to expand...


Yep really not worked for Arsenal at all so far this season lol


----------



## sunshine (Nov 28, 2022)

Normally there is a 3 week break from end of season to tournament start, time to recover, refresh and train. This year it's 1 week.

Normally England has 6-7 day break between 1st and 2nd games. This year it was 4 days, with the Wales game to follow 4 days later. 

It didn't make sense for England to go all out guns blazing against USA. It's great they were able to play within themselves, although the performance was uninspiring. Southgate is too sensible for that. 

England is the "big" team in the group. It's pretty common for teams to play for a draw against the big team and try to win the other two games. It was clear to me that Iran and USA both set themselves up to get a draw. Iran tried to frustrate England and were very negative, but once they conceded, their game plan was gone and they didn't know what to do. USA were very organised and played a high energy press. 

The teams that thrash everyone in the group stages rarely go on to win the tournament. A dull 0-0 is no disaster.


----------



## GreiginFife (Nov 28, 2022)

sunshine said:



*Normally there is a 3 week break from end of season to tournament start, time to recover, refresh and train. This year it's 1 week.*

Normally England has 6-7 day break between 1st and 2nd games. This year it was 4 days, with the Wales game to follow 4 days later.

It didn't make sense for England to go all out guns blazing against USA. It's great they were able to play within themselves, although the performance was uninspiring. Southgate is too sensible for that.

England is the "big" team in the group. It's pretty common for teams to play for a draw against the big team and try to win the other two games. It was clear to me that Iran and USA both set themselves up to get a draw. Iran tried to frustrate England and were very negative, but once they conceded, their game plan was gone and they didn't know what to do. USA were very organised and played a high energy press.

The teams that thrash everyone in the group stages rarely go on to win the tournament. A dull 0-0 is no disaster.
		
Click to expand...

Normally they are coming off the back of a long season. This time it's the middle of the season. If they weren't playing in Qatar, they'd still be playing in the "best and most physical league in the world". IMO, tiredness now is just lazy excusing.


----------



## RichA (Nov 28, 2022)

Half-time pundits Didier Drogba and Laura Georges. Refreshing to hear genuinely interesting, insightful analysis after 45 minutes of Dion's drivel.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 28, 2022)

RichA said:



			Half-time pundits Didier Drogba and Laura Georges. Refreshing to hear genuinely interesting, insightful analysis after 45 minutes of Dion's drivel.
		
Click to expand...

Agree…even something as simple as DD explaining where he’d position himself between full back and central defender…and why.  And LG expanding on it from her full back perspective.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 28, 2022)

World Cup has gone mad today. There were far too many nil nils to be fair.


----------



## sunshine (Nov 28, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			Normally they are coming off the back of a long season. This time it's the middle of the season. If they weren't playing in Qatar, they'd still be playing in the "best and most physical league in the world". IMO, tiredness now is just lazy excusing.
		
Click to expand...

Nah. They’ve played extra games so far this season, started early and crammed loads into October. They can’t expect to play at 100% intensity for all three group matches. This is the same for all the European based players in top leagues. 

They need to pace themselves and peak later in the tournament.


----------



## GB72 (Nov 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			World Cup has gone mad today. There were far too many nil nils to be fair.
		
Click to expand...

I guess teams play the first game or even 2 with a view to not losing and then can see what they need to do. Today a couple of teams reached that do or die stage


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 28, 2022)

GB72 said:



			I guess teams play the first game or even 2 with a view to not losing and then can see what they need to do. Today a couple of teams reached that do or die stage
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're right, it's the middling teams battling it out for that 2nd group spot. Of course I'm in the office today and not watching, so tonight and tomorrow's games will be back to the usual nil nils.


----------



## paddyc (Nov 28, 2022)

A random irritation but Dion Dublin drives me nuts with his crap observations and obvious comments. South Korea get a corner in the last minute. " This is going in the box" Really!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 28, 2022)

sunshine said:



			Nah. They’ve played extra games so far this season, started early and crammed loads into October. They can’t expect to play at 100% intensity for all three group matches. This is the same for all the European based players in top leagues.

They need to pace themselves and peak later in the tournament.
		
Click to expand...

They had two weeks off when the Queen died.
They really should not be tired and leggy after 1 World Cup tie against Iran.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			For me, we needed to win the USA game, then you might have seen a few players rested tomorrow as we'd have been more-or-less guaranteed top of the group. By not winning the game we've lost that luxury. If we can get an early goal or two then we have the chance to rest players second half.

As for your last sentence - how many times have we said that over the years for various opposition and not done the job?
		
Click to expand...

I did sat “ should.”
Footballs a funny old game!


----------



## sunshine (Nov 28, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			That 2nd half the other night was as rubbish as i've seen over the years.
		
Click to expand...

You must have a really short memory. That's not even the worst England performance I've seen v USA!  Remember Rob Green? 

2010 was so much worse. 2014 was even worse than 2010... we finished bottom of our group.

Plus all the dreadful years under Graham Taylor, Keegan. What about Schteve MacLaren who took over the 2006 world cup QF team so called golden generation and failed to qualify for Euro 2008. England have frequently been miserable in the last 20 years, so I'm preperared to give Southgate the benefit of the doubt for now.


----------



## Asian Dawn (Nov 28, 2022)

Southgate's track record -  Semi-finalists in the last World Cup, runner-up in the last Euros.   He has got so much leeway, the moronic tabloid press need to concentrate on the length of the skirts of the WAGs.  It's about their intelligence level.


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 28, 2022)

Brazil dismal today. Creative spark is non-existent. Surely Neymar doesn't make that much difference to them?


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 28, 2022)

Infuriating that VAR is ruling goals out for offside, and the images are not shown at the time the decision is made, but randomly 2 or 3 minutes later after the game has continued.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 28, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Infuriating that VAR is ruling goals out for offside, and the images are not shown at the time the decision is made, but randomly 2 or 3 minutes later after the game has continued.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe it takes that long to make those lovely 3D renders of the players. 😂


----------



## Imurg (Nov 28, 2022)




----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 28, 2022)

Expecting a free flowing, good natured game this evening 🤭. Maybe I'll be wrong.


----------



## Slime (Nov 28, 2022)

I think this game is going to degenerate into a bit of a cynical mess.
Could be good viewing though!
A couple of red cards may liven things up a tad.


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 28, 2022)

Ronaldo didn’t touch that!


----------



## Slime (Nov 28, 2022)




----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 28, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Ronaldo didn’t touch that!
		
Click to expand...

It was nearer my head than his and am on a settee.


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 28, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			It was nearer my head than his and am on a settee.
		
Click to expand...

I’m embarrassed for him that he’s claiming it. Just shows you he’s only interested in himself.


----------



## fundy (Nov 28, 2022)

Slime said:



View attachment 45364

Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597323164241039361


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 28, 2022)

fundy said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597323164241039361

Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂😂
it’s time slime took the goat down. 👍


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 28, 2022)

Slime said:



View attachment 45364

Click to expand...

thats not the real Goat


----------



## larmen (Nov 28, 2022)

If the hair touch counts, that would finally explain the original Ronaldo R9 hair in 2002.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 28, 2022)

I like Ally Mccoist but he is embarrassing himself on commentary. 'We will have to take Ronaldo's word for it'. Why? He didn't touch it Ally. He only wants the glory and the stats.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 28, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			I’m embarrassed for him that he’s claiming it. Just shows you he’s only interested in himself.
		
Click to expand...

Always has been about him 

Remember the champ leagues final when bale scored the winner and he had a face like a slapped bum rather than celebrating 

Or when his nose was put out of joint that bales transfer fee topped his 

Mental


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 28, 2022)

Ave a feeling there will be a few “ legends” retiring after this World Cup. That said Ave not seen any standout young uns coming through either. Mind Southgates not playing some of them 😖😳👍😁


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 28, 2022)

If that was a penalty then they need to go back to the drawing board with the rules. He's falling backwards onto his backside, what else is he meant to do with his hand?? Should he just take the full force of his fall on his tailbone? Absolutely farcical.


----------



## fundy (Nov 28, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Ave a feeling there will be a few “ legends” retiring after this World Cup. That said Ave not seen any standout young uns coming through either. Mind Southgates not playing some of them 😖😳👍😁
		
Click to expand...

Mbappe, Musiala, Saka, Bellingham, Tchouameni, Gavi, Pedri, Davies, Vini Junior, Gakpo, and plenty more. Lots of good youngsters on show


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 28, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Ave a feeling there will be a few “ legends” retiring after this World Cup. That said Ave not seen any standout young uns coming through either. Mind Southgates not playing some of them 😖😳👍😁
		
Click to expand...

Musiala was pretty tasty for Germany, Bellingham got rave reviews first game up, Mbappe is a star already. Still time for others to shine. (Fundy beat me to it with a better list than mine 😄)

Agree about the first bit, it's a tournament too far for a few big names.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 28, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Ave a feeling there will be a few “ legends” retiring after this World Cup. That said Ave not seen any standout young uns coming through either. Mind Southgates not playing some of them 😖😳👍😁
		
Click to expand...

Mbappe 
Musiala
Bellingham 
Gavi
Pedri
Fernandez
Musah
Tchouameni


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 28, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			If that was a penalty then they need to go back to the drawing board with the rules. He's falling backwards onto his backside, what else is he meant to do with his hand?? Should he just take the full force of his fall on his tailbone? Absolutely farcical.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I agree.
Think he gave it because Bruno was clean through.
But it wasn’t unnatural.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 29, 2022)

Some bookies payed out in free bets for anyone that backed Ronaldo in the goal/shot on target markets.


----------



## 3offTheTee (Nov 29, 2022)

Being a true England Fan I should like Wales to win 1-0 and the other 2 draw.
Ideal situation and a (further) wake up call for England/ Southgate.


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 29, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Always has been about him

Remember the champ leagues final when bale scored the winner and he had a face like a slapped bum rather than celebrating

Or when his nose was put out of joint that bales transfer fee topped his

Mental
		
Click to expand...

Nothing compared to Harry Kane swearing on his baby's life he got a touch on a cross that helped him get a Golden Boot a few years ago


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 29, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Being a true England Fan I should like Wales to win 1-0 and the other 2 draw.
Ideal situation and a (further) wake up call for England/ Southgate.
		
Click to expand...

Does Southgate do wake up calls? Think I’ve said before, he’s like the scene from Black Adder Goes Forth, we’ll try the same thing over and over because the enemy won’t expect that 🙈


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Nov 29, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Does Southgate do wake up calls? Think I’ve said before, he’s like the scene from Black Adder Goes Forth, we’ll try the same thing over and over because the enemy won’t expect that 🙈
		
Click to expand...

Southgate's record as England manager is pretty good.
Weird how some fans put their opinion higher than records/results.

We have this at Hearts ATM.
Our best manager since his last tenure as manager, very good recent record, two cup finals playing in Europe and 3rd in the league.
However a group of numpties want him gone.


----------



## larmen (Nov 29, 2022)

Adidas/FIFA released the data collected by the ball and Ronaldinho didn’t touch it.

I think his hair did, that is why he felt it, but the ball didn’t ‘feel’ it.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 29, 2022)

Senegal fans absolutely smashing it so far. Great noise, great colour, great backing for their team. There is one fan dancing with a lions head on, not a little one either 😳


----------



## fundy (Nov 29, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Senegal fans absolutely smashing it so far. Great noise, great colour, great backing for their team. There is one fan dancing with a lions head on, not a little one either 😳
		
Click to expand...


Told the boss hes got Covid and popped over to Qatar, best disguise he could find


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			Told the boss hes got Covid and popped over to Qatar, best disguise he could find 

Click to expand...

He has certainly committed to it 😆. Can you imagine turning up at the airport with that under your arm?


----------



## fundy (Nov 29, 2022)

Id like to wish the ref well for the second half lol. Gonna be awful if the last 5 mins anything to go by


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 29, 2022)

larmen said:



			Adidas/FIFA released the data collected by the ball and Ronaldinho didn’t touch it.

I think his hair did, that is why he felt it, but the ball didn’t ‘feel’ it.
		
Click to expand...

Connected Ball Technology they call it apparently....wonder if there is a place for it in golf balls as part of a spin/flight/ball tracking analysis system?


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 29, 2022)

Not sure on the rumoured line up for tonight. It seems Southgate has panicked a bit. I don't like the look of the side at all 

Rashford struggles on the right and if he's on the left, that means Foden will be out of position on the right. Wales will sit deep so I can't see why we've gone with Rashford who only offers pace. Grealish would be a better bet for this game.

I like the idea of Bellingham getting pushed a bit further forward but that's about it. Let's hope it isn't too rigid and we see plenty of movement.

That said, the game will be about making sure we have the right attitude. Wales are probably the most passionate and motivated team in the competition and this game will see them even more fired up. We've just got to match them on that and don't bottle it like we did against the USA. Wales will sit back and hope for a set piece, they haven't the quality come at us. Right attitude from the off and we win with ease.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 29, 2022)

larmen said:



			Adidas/FIFA released the *data collected by the ball and Ronaldinho didn’t touch it.*

I think his hair did, that is why he felt it, but the ball didn’t ‘feel’ it.
		
Click to expand...

Don't really need technology for that, he retired years ago.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 29, 2022)

.


Orikoru said:



			Don't really need technology for that, he retired years ago.
		
Click to expand...

He got more of touch than divoldo did


----------



## GreiginFife (Nov 29, 2022)

JRS7 said:



			SMASH Wales England
		
Click to expand...

Walgland?

Or, Engles?


----------



## yandabrown (Nov 29, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			Walgland?

Or, Engles?
		
Click to expand...

Or go the whole hog and get Wengerlalandes


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 29, 2022)




----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 29, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 45377

Click to expand...

My first thoughts are - that looks ok! Rice and Henderson holding which frees up Bellingham to create and a front three (of sorts) to create havoc. Come on England - just give us something to enjoy...oh and win too please!


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 29, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			My first thoughts are - that looks ok! Rice and Henderson holding which frees up Bellingham to create and a front three (of sorts) to create havoc. Come on England - just give us something to enjoy...oh and win too please!
		
Click to expand...

He is clearly looking to use his squad 

We have already basically qualified so it's time to give others a chance 

Don't mess too much with defence but can give walker a run out 

Rice is Englands first choice it seems now 

Rests saka aswell which he might need


----------



## chrisd (Nov 29, 2022)

Just seen Ian Rush on BBC it occurred to me that as a forward  he'd be called off side these days on VAR more than most, with the size of his hooter !


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 29, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			He is clearly looking to use his squad

We have already basically qualified so it's time to give others a chance

Don't mess too much with defence but can give walker a run out

Rice is Englands first choice it seems now

Rests saka aswell which he might need
		
Click to expand...

What I don't understand is why not give Foden a run out before starting him. Stuck with Mount when he was really poor against the USA. I hope Foden plays to his ability and makes it impossible for Gareth to leave him out next game...


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 29, 2022)

Keep me in the loop. Missis T took me out for a Romantic Indian. 👍😖🥰


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 29, 2022)

chrisd said:



			Just seen Ian Rush on BBC it occurred to me that as a forward  he'd be called off side these days on VAR more than most, with the size of his hooter !
		
Click to expand...

Good job Ozil has retired too. His eyes would be offside even from midfield


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Keep me in the loop. Missis T took me out for a Romantic Indian. 👍😖🥰
		
Click to expand...

Bet she’ll be made up if you’re on the forum


----------



## Voyager EMH (Nov 29, 2022)

Always a tricky call for me when any of England, Scotland and Wales play each other.
Grew up with a dad whose parents were from Aberdeen and a mum whose parents were from South Wales.
Grandad played for Aberdeen before WW1 and Barnsley after. I have a great uncle who got 5 caps for Scotland.
Welsh grandmother lived with us from soon after I was born. Definitely a half-Welsh upbringing.
I was born in England and lived in England all my life apart from 1 year in Wales.
I have to identify as English more than the other two, but always feel allegiance to Wales and Scotland as well.
I can't see Wales winning this evening, but I'll be happy if they do. Then we need USA-Iran to be a draw. England still go through.
I think the betting odds for that double is about 24/1. I won't be putting any money on it.

I usually sing along to "Mae hen wlad fy nhadau".
Please don't take the wotsit too much. 
I'm confused and conflicted enough already.

Mostly, I'm hoping to see some good football being played by both teams.


----------



## chrisd (Nov 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Keep me in the loop. Missis T took me out for a Romantic Indian. 👍😖🥰
		
Click to expand...

Geronimo!!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2022)

chrisd said:



			Just seen Ian Rush on BBC it occurred to me that as a forward  he'd be called off side these days on VAR more than most, with the size of his hooter !
		
Click to expand...

Unlike modern players he understood the offside rule .
He was so good he could give most defenders a yard start.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 29, 2022)

“England play a patient game “. Says the commentator. He”s been converted into Southgateism along with the England players. Kicking it backwards more than forwards.
just seen Foden for first time. Least he had a shot.

might be some hope. Not holding my breath.


----------



## Smiffy (Nov 29, 2022)

Exciting stuff again......


😳😳😳😳😳😳


----------



## larmen (Nov 29, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Don't really need technology for that, he retired years ago.
		
Click to expand...

Wow, that was an auto correct. Must have misspelled it slightly, the someone at Apple must have had preferences.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 29, 2022)

Southgate has lost the plot dropping Englands best RB for a half fit Walker🤦🏼‍♂️


----------



## Slime (Nov 29, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			“England play a patient game “. Says the commentator. He”s been converted into Southgateism along with the England players. Kicking it backwards more than forwards.
just seen Foden for first time. Least he had a shot.

might be some hope. Not holding my breath.
		
Click to expand...




Smiffy said:



			Exciting stuff again......


😳😳😳😳😳😳
		
Click to expand...


I think they're showing the other game on BBC2, try it, you're obviously not enjoying the England game.


----------



## Slime (Nov 29, 2022)

Gotta hand it to Maguire, you can't fault his enthusiasm.


----------



## Fade and Die (Nov 29, 2022)

My god what an awkward team we are! You would think they only met up 15 minutes before kickoff!


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 29, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Southgate has lost the plot dropping Englands best RB for a half fit Walker🤦🏼‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

As well as bringing in a second defensive midfielder against a team that have been abject thus far. It's laughable.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 29, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			As well as bringing in a second defensive midfielder against a team that have been abject thus far. It's laughable.
		
Click to expand...

He needs to bring Kane on...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2022)

Slime said:



			Gotta hand it to Maguire, you can't fault his enthusiasm.
		
Click to expand...

Was it a cross or a shot 😂


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 29, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			He needs to bring Kane on...
		
Click to expand...

Kane's already assisted Rashford for a certain goal that he somehow missed.


----------



## fundy (Nov 29, 2022)

Structure is awful, constantly have 2 players wanting the same space, basically relying on individual brilliance, most of which, unsurprisingly is coming from Foden so far

I assume hes trying to get some minutes in to Walker as he doesnt look close to match fit


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 29, 2022)

Slime said:



			I think they're showing the other game on BBC2, try it, you're obviously not enjoying the England game.
		
Click to expand...

you’re right, as a spectacle of football I’m not enjoying it. But as an Englishman I feel I should watch😀
Also curious about this lad Foden .Didnt know anything about him until reading comments on the forum.
certainly seems the best of this bunch.


----------



## chrisd (Nov 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Keep me in the loop. Missis T took me out for a Romantic Indian. 👍😖🥰
		
Click to expand...

Geronimo!!


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 29, 2022)

I'd take rashford off, switch foden left and bring saka on that's what we seem to be lacking ATM


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 29, 2022)

Rashford and Henderson off please.


----------



## Slime (Nov 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Was it a cross or a shot 😂
		
Click to expand...

It was a shot.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 29, 2022)

…so far so good…well ok.


----------



## Steve Wilkes (Nov 29, 2022)

Can't believe Foden is playing, and we aren't 4-0 up, thought he just needed to play for us to be world beaters


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 29, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Rashford and Henderson off please.
		
Click to expand...

In an ideal world, grealish and saka on but I think that's too attacking too soon

Would settle for rashford for now

Can see Trent coming on as walker tires


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 29, 2022)

Steve Wilkes said:



			Can't believe Foden is playing, and we aren't 4-0 up, thought he just needed to play for us to be world beaters
		
Click to expand...

As I said before it's always going to be oh this player needs to play 

We have a lot of great players , they can't all play


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 29, 2022)

Steve Wilkes said:



			Can't believe Foden is playing, and we aren't 4-0 up, thought he just needed to play for us to be world beaters
		
Click to expand...

I think he's used to better service and playing on the other side of the pitch...


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 29, 2022)

Sack Southgate at half time!

Without doubt the worst and most cowardly 45 minutes I've ever seen England play. We're loaded with world class players and are up against a Championship level side yet we're treating them like Brazil of 1970.

Wrong team, wrong formation and wrong outlook. If I see Rice pass it back to Stones or Maguire I'm going to drop kick the TV. That is disgusting football. Theres no chance we're beating Senegal or France playing like this. We're actually getting worse and worse as the tournament goes on. Embarrassing.


----------



## Slime (Nov 29, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			As I said before it's always going to be oh this player needs to play

We have a lot of great players , they can't all play
		
Click to expand...

I actually think we have very few great players, if any!


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 29, 2022)

Sorry Alan but Mount couldn't unlock his front door!!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2022)

Slime said:



			It was a shot.
		
Click to expand...

Surely not 😂😂😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597675675863101441
Walker is way off the pace , Rashford isn’t a right wide player , Kane carrying on his poor form

Bring on TAA , Saka and Wilson


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2022)

When we played one touch football it was good.
But we have just slowed everything down to much ,to many touches ,backwards to much.
Bellingham just being bypassed.
Final ball just not there.
Rashford just has to put that away, might not get another chance before being subbed.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 29, 2022)

Wish I had a pudding now.


----------



## Voyager EMH (Nov 29, 2022)

Best performance so far? Wales's keeper. Which club does he play for?


----------



## Dando (Nov 29, 2022)

Smiffy said:



			Exciting stuff again......


😳😳😳😳😳😳
		
Click to expand...

I’ve read more exciting insurance policies than this excuse for a football match


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 29, 2022)

Looks like Gareth decided to give Foden and Rashford a half each in their preferred position!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Wish I had a pudding now.
		
Click to expand...

There’s a few puddings in white shirts here.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2022)

That’s a great free kick.


----------



## fundy (Nov 29, 2022)

decent hit that from Rashford


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 29, 2022)

As good a free kick goal as any Ronaldo did


----------



## Slime (Nov 29, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



*I'd take Rashford off,* switch foden left and bring saka on that's what we seem to be lacking ATM
		
Click to expand...

Oooops!


----------



## Imurg (Nov 29, 2022)

Here we go......


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2022)

Nice hit - poor from the keeper and that’s two now with a great ball from Kane


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 29, 2022)

Foden creates havoc from the left - knew it.

Just saying "oh don't let Rashford take it"  Oh go on then!


----------



## Fade and Die (Nov 29, 2022)

get in!!! 😁


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 29, 2022)

Keeper has had a shocker there.


----------



## fundy (Nov 29, 2022)

all hype this Foden lad


----------



## Dando (Nov 29, 2022)

Poor keeping for the free kick


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Looks like Gareth decided to give Foden and Rashford a half each in their preferred position!
		
Click to expand...

It’s the best decision he’s made since he filled in the sheet.
Why play players out of position.
Foden scoring from his preffered side???


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Nice hit - poor from the keeper and that’s two now with a great ball from Kane
		
Click to expand...

I thought he was out of form a minute ago?


----------



## Slime (Nov 29, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I thought he was out of form a minute ago?
		
Click to expand...

Unbelievable, the amount of experts on here.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I thought he was out of form a minute ago?
		
Click to expand...

Has he not been poor until that moment and also the game before and even the Iran game 🙄


Slime said:



			Unbelievable the amount of experts on here.
		
Click to expand...

or people just giving their opinion on what they see on the pitch ?


----------



## fundy (Nov 29, 2022)

Good to see changes coming straight after going 2-0 up


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Has he not been poor until that moment and also the game before and even the Iran game 🙄


or people just giving their opinion on what they see on the pitch ?
		
Click to expand...

Has the most assists of anyone in this world cup now, and should have had another first half when Rashford missed. But apart from that eh? 😂


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I thought he was out of form a minute ago?
		
Click to expand...

Form is temporary 
Class comes through eventually.


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 29, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I'd take rashford off, switch foden left and bring saka on that's what we seem to be lacking ATM
		
Click to expand...

Join the Hockey club


----------



## Slime (Nov 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



*or people just giving their opinion on what they see on the pitch *?
		
Click to expand...

No, Phil, I genuinely believe that they regard themselves as experts.


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 29, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Rashford and Henderson off please.
		
Click to expand...

Oops gone early


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 29, 2022)

TAA coming on. I told
You Southgate’s had a bang in the head. 😳😉👍


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2022)

Slime said:



			No, Phil, I genuinely believe that they regard themselves as experts.
		
Click to expand...

They don’t - people just comment from their opinion , it’s the same with any football fan.


----------



## paddyc (Nov 29, 2022)

Got to say I really like the way we are set up. 
Rashford pace and power , shooting, Foden just quality. Giving Bellingham a free role it just looks much better.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Has the most assists of anyone in this world cup now, and should have had another first half when Rashford missed. But apart from that eh? 😂
		
Click to expand...

you know what they say about stats eh 🙄


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 29, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			It’s the best decision he’s made since he filled in the sheet.
Why play players out of position.
Foden scoring from his preffered side???
		
Click to expand...

Yep - don't shoe horn players in. Not fair on them and not likely to work either (however good they are).


----------



## upsidedown (Nov 29, 2022)

Ouch


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 29, 2022)

fundy said:



			Good to see changes coming straight after going 2-0 up
		
Click to expand...

Look decent changes too! What is going on...


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 29, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Oops gone early
		
Click to expand...

I’d still have had him off at half time. The free kick wasn’t exactly prime Beckham. It should have been an easy save but the keeper had a shocker.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 29, 2022)

Slime said:



			Oooops!
		
Click to expand...

To be fair he did better.. he swapped their wings and that came from foden on the left


----------



## Slime (Nov 29, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			I’d still have had him off at half time. The free kick wasn’t exactly prime Beckham. It should have been an easy save but the keeper had a shocker.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, absolutely shocking free kick.
Rashford was lucky the 'keeper threw the ball in just after he'd saved it.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 29, 2022)

Slime said:



			Yeah, absolutely shocking free kick.
Rashford was lucky the 'keeper threw the ball in just after he'd saved it. 

Click to expand...

Fair play to rashford it was a good strike


----------



## Slime (Nov 29, 2022)

So was that one.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 29, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Look decent changes too! What is going on...
		
Click to expand...

It will be all foden being allowed to play and nothing to do with Southgates tactics ofc


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			I’d still have had him off at half time. The free kick wasn’t exactly prime Beckham. It should have been an easy save but the keeper had a shocker.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure it can be called a shocker - the keeper made a step which gave Rashford the chance and he took it -

That wasn’t great from the keeper though

Good to see Henderson playing the anchor role and screaming at the players , proper leadership


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 29, 2022)

Dear God, Ward is absolutely awful. How is this guy playing Premier League football??


----------



## Fade and Die (Nov 29, 2022)

Meggs! 😬


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 29, 2022)

Slime said:



			So was that one.
		
Click to expand...

Nice to see. He defo been much better this half 

The move of position has helped


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 29, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Meggs! 😬
		
Click to expand...

Nuts!

See what happens when you pass the ball forwards...


----------



## Dando (Nov 29, 2022)

Slime said:



			Yeah, absolutely shocking free kick.
Rashford was lucky the 'keeper threw the ball in just after he'd saved it. 

Click to expand...

The keeper shouldn’t get beaten on his side unless it’s top corner


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not sure it can be called a shocker - the keeper made a step which gave Rashford the chance and he took it -

That wasn’t great from the keeper though

Good to see Henderson playing the anchor role and screaming at the players , proper leadership
		
Click to expand...

That is something I'll agree on. Kane is not a leader . Does his game harm aswell.


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 29, 2022)

Slime said:



			Yeah, absolutely shocking free kick.
Rashford was lucky the 'keeper threw the ball in just after he'd saved it. 

Click to expand...

OK. It’s was a worldy and goal of the tournament.


----------



## Mel Smooth (Nov 29, 2022)

Danny Ward is a legend for his time at Huddersfield, and was key to the promotion to the PL, but he's gonna get quite rightfully questioned over that 1st goal, and even the second, he maybe could have done a little better.


----------



## fundy (Nov 29, 2022)

Is it too early to spare a thought for Kieffer Moore lol............


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 29, 2022)

Was bale injured? What a way to end your world cup ..


----------



## Imurg (Nov 29, 2022)

Wouldn't be unhappy to Wales get one....would give me 5 points on Super6


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2022)

Rashford having the half of his life, Smile on his face, on a historic hat trick.
What do we do ?
Take him off , and switch Foden from where he’s just scored. never understood that.

Nice to have a CF who plays on the shoulder of the CBS.
It’s much better this half.


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 29, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Was bale injured? What a way to end your world cup ..
		
Click to expand...

I assume so. If it was for his club I'd say he didn't fancy it and had an early tee time in the morning...but he's always shown up for Wales.


----------



## Slime (Nov 29, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			OK. It’s was a worldy and goal of the tournament.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 29, 2022)

If we learn anything from tonight is sterling and mount need to stay on the bench for the next game ..


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2022)

Wilson has been superb since he came on  , caused all sorts of issues , his pace and pressing excellent


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 29, 2022)

Oh John you plonker!


----------



## HeftyHacker (Nov 29, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Rashford having the half of his life, Smile on his face, on a historic hat trick.
What do we do ?
Take him off , and switch Foden from where he’s just scored. never understood that.

Nice to have a CF who plays on the shoulder of the CBS.
It’s much better this half.
		
Click to expand...

He'd just been down stretching and lost a bit of zip. Probably a precaution.


----------



## Slime (Nov 29, 2022)

A good performance and a great 2nd half ....................... 3 points ..................... top of the group.
Can't ask for much more than that, well done.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wilson has been superb since he came on  , caused all sorts of issues , his pace and pressing excellent
		
Click to expand...

Yes and he isn’t coming back into Bellinghams space


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2022)

HeftyHacker said:



			He'd just been down stretching and lost a bit of zip. Probably a precaution.
		
Click to expand...

Right missed that thanks.
Making a cuppa.


----------



## Imurg (Nov 29, 2022)

Slime said:



			A good performance and a great 2nd half ....................... 3 points ..................... top of the group.
Can't ask for much more than that, well done.
		
Click to expand...

Oh I don't know Slime...they will be plenty who wouldn't be happy if we won 10-0....


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 29, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes and he isn’t coming back into Bellinghams space
		
Click to expand...

Allowed us to see what Bellingham can do - having been awol in the first half and against USA (not his fault)...


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 29, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes and he isn’t coming back into Bellinghams space
		
Click to expand...

We always fear we don't have anyone who can play like kane but he did play like kane 

Now can kane get rested more often when he looks tired rather than ruin him


----------



## Slime (Nov 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Wilson has been superb since he came on*  , caused all sorts of issues , his pace and pressing excellent
		
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more, absolutely superb.



clubchamp98 said:



*Yes and he isn’t coming back into Bellinghams space*

Click to expand...

And probably isn't coming back into Southgate's team unless Kane gets injured!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Oh John you plonker!
		
Click to expand...

Yes that’s your standard type City tap in.


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 29, 2022)

I like Ian Rush - refreshing that he's not blindly patriotic in his punditry.


----------



## IanM (Nov 29, 2022)

English bloke living in Wales feeling comfy tonight. 

That was too easy.  Wales will be disappointed about their performance over their three games.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			We always fear we don't have anyone who can play like kane but he did play like kane

Now can kane get rested more often when he looks tired rather than ruin him
		
Click to expand...

Dunno ask Gareth.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			I like Ian Rush - refreshing that he's not blindly patriotic in his punditry.
		
Click to expand...

He wasn’t a bad player as well.


----------



## srixon 1 (Nov 29, 2022)

Was there two pub teams in that group.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 29, 2022)

IanM said:



			English bloke living in Wales feeling comfy tonight.

That was too easy.  Wales will be disappointed about their performance over their three games.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure they can take any positives out of the tournament. 2nd half against the USA perhaps but otherwise they haven't turned up. A shame.


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 29, 2022)

Overall a very solid performance 
Should beat Senegal 
Onwards and forwards


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 29, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			He wasn’t a bad player as well.
		
Click to expand...

A true professional. You can see why - genuine, honest guy.


----------



## fundy (Nov 29, 2022)

wow USA lived dangerously at the end there!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2022)

Going to be interesting to see what Southgate does against Senegal 

It really should be the same starting 11 - but Wilson deserves a start but Southgate would never put Kane on the bench


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 29, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			He wasn’t a bad player as well.
		
Click to expand...

He still haunts the dreams of many a blue 😱. World class striker.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 29, 2022)

I only seen the last 25mins of the 1st half  but i'm glad to see Rashford scoring, he's took a lot of unjust criticism recently.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 29, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm not sure they can take any positives out of the tournament. 2nd half against the USA perhaps but otherwise they haven't turned up. A shame.
		
Click to expand...

Even more worrying for them is there doesn't seem to be a new Bale or Giggs coming through the ranks at the moment is there? Could be a while until they see another World Cup.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Going to be interesting to see what Southgate does against Senegal

It really should be the same starting 11 - but Wilson deserves a start but Southgate would never put Kane on the bench
		
Click to expand...

Why not let Wilson loose for 60mins then bring Kane on when defenders are tired.
But it’s GS


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 29, 2022)

Well done Dan James - young man stepping up...


----------



## fundy (Nov 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Going to be interesting to see what Southgate does against Senegal

It really should be the same starting 11 - but Wilson deserves a start but Southgate would never put Kane on the bench
		
Click to expand...

Trippier be in for Walker as a bare minimum


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not sure it can be called a shocker - the keeper made a step which gave Rashford the chance and he took it -

That wasn’t great from the keeper though

Good to see Henderson playing the anchor role and screaming at the players , proper leadership
		
Click to expand...

But Henderson should never be starting for England did you notice the amount of poor passes he made in the first half , England have far better younger more skillful players in the squad, we don’t need another negative player in the team.


----------



## Slime (Nov 29, 2022)

Rashford is Man of the Match, surely he starts against Senegal.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 29, 2022)

Bellingham actually sounds really intelligent in his interview as well - never heard him speak before. Bright future!


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 29, 2022)

A much better performance in the second half but the only things that changed were we stepped the intensity up and Foden ran the game from the left. Those are the basics we should've started with. Rashford had a brilliant second half too but he's no right winger and wouldn't get that time for his second against anyone else.

We shouldn't let the second half paper over the cracks of the first and how utterly useless we were. Against any half decent team it's game over playing like that. I've got absolutely no faith at all in Southghate or the team he'll pick on Sunday. When the handbrake is removed we're actually an excellent side.

Senegal is a 50/50 game with Southgate tactics and theres no way we beat France.


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Going to be interesting to see what Southgate does against Senegal

It really should be the same starting 11 - but Wilson deserves a start but Southgate would never put Kane on the bench
		
Click to expand...

No disrespect but Wilson doesn’t deserve a start,and as you rightly point out GS won’t drop Kane.
However if we need a goal Wilson could be an option.


----------



## fundy (Nov 29, 2022)

Slime said:



			Rashford is Man of the Match, surely he starts against Senegal.
		
Click to expand...

Saka was man of the match v Iran and rested for this. One of them has to miss out..........


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wilson has been superb since he came on  , caused all sorts of issues , his pace and pressing excellent
		
Click to expand...

Made Harry Kane look like a statue. I'm Kanes's biggest fan but he's not even 50% fit so crazy to keep running him on empty.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			But Henderson should never be starting for England did you notice the amount of poor passes he made in the first half , England have far better younger more skillful players in the squad, we don’t need another negative player in the team.
		
Click to expand...

Really 🤦‍♂️

Henderson was very good today - providing the pressing , energy and leadership that’s been missing over the first few games.


Orikoru said:



			Bellingham actually sounds really intelligent in his interview as well - never heard him speak before. Bright future!
		
Click to expand...

How did you expect him to sound 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 29, 2022)

4LEX said:



			A much better performance in the second half but the only things that changed were we stepped the intensity up and Foden ran the game from the left. Those are the basics we should've started with. Rashford had a brilliant second half too but he's no right winger and wouldn't get that time for his second against anyone else.

We shouldn't let the second half paper over the cracks of the first and how utterly useless we were. Against any half decent team it's game over playing like that. I've got absolutely no faith at all in Southghate or the team he'll pick on Sunday. When the handbrake is removed we're actually an excellent side.

Senegal is a 50/50 game with Southgate tactics and theres no way we beat France.
		
Click to expand...

Foden was bright 2nd half but in no way did he run the game.
Plenty of players stepped up 2nd half and overall a vast improvement.
I think most teams will struggle against France.
We are in the draw and that’s what counts.


----------



## Golfmmad (Nov 29, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Kane's already assisted Rashford for a certain goal that he somehow missed.
		
Click to expand...

No he didn't, the keeper saved it.


----------



## IanM (Nov 29, 2022)

Looking forward to BBC local news over here tonight.

Wales moral victory over England.   Awesome effort.


----------



## paddyc (Nov 29, 2022)

4LEX said:



			A much better performance in the second half but the only things that changed were we stepped the intensity up and Foden ran the game from the left. Those are the basics we should've started with. Rashford had a brilliant second half too but he's no right winger and wouldn't get that time for his second against anyone else.

We shouldn't let the second half paper over the cracks of the first and how utterly useless we were. Against any half decent team it's game over playing like that. I've got absolutely no faith at all in Southghate or the team he'll pick on Sunday. When the handbrake is removed we're actually an excellent side.

Senegal is a 50/50 game with Southgate tactics and theres no way we beat France.
		
Click to expand...

Your being a bit harsh mate. We weren't  useless in first half  we kept the ball really well  never gave Wales a touch, created some decent openings.2nd half steamrollered itthem. 
Not 50/50 against Senegal we should have more than enough and I don't think France are anything special  A bit more optimism and less negativity required please.


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Really 🤦‍♂️

Henderson was very good today - providing the pressing , energy and leadership that’s been missing over the first few games.


How did you expect him to sound 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

He wasn’t that good in the first half some poor touches and passes if we’re going to progress in this tournament we need more skillful younger players in the side.


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 29, 2022)

Some club tinted spectacles worn on here at times.


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 29, 2022)

Nah Foden was bustling with energy, all our good moves involved his quick feet and passing. Rashford will get the headlines but his freekick is a 1/20 and his goal was a result of terrible defending and keeping.

Being in the draw isn't what counts, that was a given. We're three games into a World Cup that we've got a great chance to win and we have no idea about our best side. The lack of effort and game plan in the last two games is shocking.

Forget the players, Southgate needs to step up and get things right from the start if we're to do anything in this World Cup.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 29, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How did you expect him to sound 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Have you heard Saka interviewed lately, or Rashford? A clear difference.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 29, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			No he didn't, the keeper saved it.
		
Click to expand...

It was a poor finish but that's Rashford all over that game really. Not great in one on ones but he can hit a decent ball from further away and decieve the keeper with it. Especially if it's a rank awful keeper. 😂


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 29, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			But Henderson should never be starting for England did you notice the amount of poor passes he made in the first half , England have far better younger more skillful players in the squad, we don’t need another negative player in the team.
		
Click to expand...

Someone has to take charge and boss the team around as the current captain certainly doesn't.


----------



## paddyc (Nov 29, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Nah Foden was bustling with energy, all our good moves involved his quick feet and passing. Rashford will get the headlines but his freekick is a 1/20 and his goal was a result of terrible defending and keeping.

Being in the draw isn't what counts, that was a given. We're three games into a World Cup that we've got a great chance to win and we have no idea about our best side. The lack of effort and game plan in the last two games is shocking.

Forget the players, Southgate needs to step up and get things right from the start if we're to do anything in this World Cup.
		
Click to expand...

Your talking out of your......
As I've already said more optimism and less negativity.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 29, 2022)

If you was to look At the FIFA rankings. 
USA are 16th. We were poor against them. 
Senegal are 18th
Wales are 19th
Iran 20th. 
England are 5th
The two teams we beat. How are they so high. 
If England don’t bring there A game they could be going home early. 
Personally I am still trying to discover what our style of play is. Finding it hard to watch at times


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 29, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			It was a poor finish but that's Rashford all over that game really. Not great in one on ones but he can hit a decent ball from further away and decieve the keeper with it. Especially if it's a rank awful keeper. 😂
		
Click to expand...

Luckily were not relying on Kanes goals.
Are you ever positive?


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 29, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Your talking out of your......
As I've already said more optimism and less negativity.
		
Click to expand...

Well am with Alex talking out of my backside coz I agree with every word he said. There’s nowt he said that was not on the nail.  The only person less popular in the pub than Southgate that came on the screen was infantino.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 29, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Luckily were not relying on Kanes goals.
Are you ever positive?
		
Click to expand...

What's not positive about that? He causes problems for keepers by getting shots away early with some pace behind them. I'd back him to score more from 20 yards than from 12 though that's all.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 29, 2022)

We won't see this much attacking but I'd like to see 

Pickford 

Tripper stones maigure Shaw 

Rice Bellingham 

Saka foden rashford 

Kane


----------



## Golfmmad (Nov 29, 2022)

It always amazes me that most folk on here expect England to play worldly exciting football in every game. It just ain't gonna happen especially in tournament football.


----------



## BrianM (Nov 29, 2022)

Did England win tonight......
So much doom and gloom on here, they played well, first half was compact but Wales never offered anything.
Walker was solid at right back, looked like Rashford of old in the second half and good to see Foden play (England's best player in my opinion)
Southgate has got to be more attacking minded going forward with the attacking players he has at his disposal....


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 29, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			It always amazes me that most folk on here expect England to play worldly exciting football in every game. It just ain't gonna happen especially in tournament football.
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps not, but do you not think that the pressing faster game as played by the successful PL teams and now played by Spain, Italy(even though not at the WC) and the other lesser teams in this WC who have got a surprise result is something that just perhaps we should be playing?


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 29, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Your being a bit harsh mate. We weren't  useless in first half  we kept the ball really well  never gave Wales a touch, created some decent openings.2nd half steamrollered itthem.
Not 50/50 against Senegal we should have more than enough and I don't think France are anything special  A bit more optimism and less negativity required please.
		
Click to expand...

Wales just lost on optimism!  And “the less negativity “ should be directed at the England team and GS..
The first half was dire, and against a half decent team we would have gone into the break losing.
We need to allow the players to play. And they should concentrated on through balls from the back.
I’m nearer 80 than 70, yet I could still pass a ball 15 yds sideways with no one near me. And that is Stones thinking he is doing a good job!
play the whole match like the second half and we might progress. Hopefully we will.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 29, 2022)

Couldn't watch match live, but just finished now on Sky+

First half was decent, in terms on controlling the game. Second have was clinical. 

Regardless, pretty sure it will be Saka, Sterling and Mount for however many games England have remaining at World Cup. 

Wales have been very much outclassed at this World Cup. Sad to see the decline of Bale, in his day he was electric.


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 29, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Someone has to take charge and boss the team around as the current captain certainly doesn't.
		
Click to expand...

I agree Kane is not a captain that shouts and drives the team, the influence of captains has largely gone in modern day football. 

With the young talent in our squad I would rather see other players in before Henderson who let’s face it his best days are gone.


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 29, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Couldn't watch match live, but just finished now on Sky+

First half was decent, in terms on controlling the game. Second have was clinical.

Regardless, pretty sure it will be Saka, Sterling and Mount for however many games England have remaining at World Cup.

Wales have been very much outclassed at this World Cup. Sad to see the decline of Bale, in his day he was electric.
		
Click to expand...

It’s going to be interesting to see who GS picks for the next game, there’s a few players now that have played well and deserve to start. 

I think Saka will be one to start but I can’t see Mount and Sterling starting now.


----------



## Golfmmad (Nov 29, 2022)

It always amazes me that most folk on here expect England to play worldly exciting football in every game. It just ain't gonna happen especially in tournament football.



Bunkermagnet said:



			Perhaps not, but do you not think that the pressing faster game as played by the successful PL teams and now played by Spain, Italy(even though not at the WC) and the other lesser teams in this WC who have got a surprise result is something that just perhaps we should be playing?
		
Click to expand...

Yes I do, which we did today, especially so in the 2nd half.
But let's not forget that our opponents press us as well, as USA did to good effect.
A lot of criticism has been directed at England's defensive play, but it was the strongest part of our game against USA, with Maguire MOM.
When teams press us its not always easy to find our midfielders and attacking players, so we have to be patient for the chances to come, rather than being gung ho?


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 29, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			We won't see this much attacking but I'd like to see

Pickford

Tripper stones maigure Shaw

Rice Bellingham

Saka foden rashford

Kane
		
Click to expand...

That’s the 11 I’d like to see as well 👍


----------



## JRS7 (Nov 30, 2022)

Great win England. Next game unchanged side (but Rashford on the right and Foden left from the start). Trippier in for Walker is an option (set pieces). Come on England! Keep going hard!


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			I agree Kane is not a captain that shouts and drives the team, the influence of captains has largely gone in modern day football.

With the young talent in our squad I would rather see other players in before Henderson who let’s face it his best days are gone.
		
Click to expand...

From all the building in the press I think that rice is being groomed as future England captain once kane retires from international


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2022)

Struggling to find many negatives looking back at the group stages 

We topped the group 

Only failed to beat the USA. Who made themsleves a tough to beat side , runners up of the group 

Scored 9 goals across 3 games 

Only let in 2 goals (one of which a dodgy pen)

Have seen some very attractive football from the team and solid defensive work 

Seen a lot of the squad aswell, I know we cry out for this player and that player but Gareth has used his subs and we haven't just seen the same players 

I fancy us to beat Senegal and then the quarters will be a true test (if it is as it stands France Vs the argies)


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 30, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Struggling to find many negatives looking back at the group stages

We topped the group

Only failed to beat the USA. Who made themsleves a tough to beat side , runners up of the group

Scored 9 goals across 3 games

Only let in 2 goals (one of which a dodgy pen)

Have seen some very attractive football from the team and solid defensive work

Seen a lot of the squad aswell, I know we cry out for this player and that player but Gareth has used his subs and we haven't just seen the same players

I fancy us to beat Senegal and then the quarters will be a true test (if it is as it stands France Vs the argies)
		
Click to expand...

I’ve not got your confidence I’m afraid, we did play some good football in the games against Iran and Wales but they are very poor sides. 

It looks good topping the group and scoring 9 goals, but let’s not forget the performance against the USA a young fit side that never sat back against us, it was awful. 

We won’t get easy games in the knockout stages and my fear is we will more negative in our tactics and slow games down which doesn’t suit the way we play best. 

Now if GS selected the team you suggested I would be a lot more confident 👍


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			He wasn’t that good in the first half some poor touches and passes if we’re going to progress in this tournament we need more skillful younger players in the side.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe you just don’t see what he brings to the team - it’s not just about getting as many young skillful players onto the pitch 

Henderson last night provided what he does for Liverpool over the last 4 seasons - tempo , pressing , energy , control , leadership , drive - that was all missing against USA 

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...n=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

“
Hendo [Henderson] brings that intensity every time he plays, and when he gives you that confidence to go and press, I can go and push on and Dec [Declan Rice] can be aggressive.

"We won a lot of balls really high up the pitch which was key to us retaining the pressure and keeping them”

You will always need some control and experience in the middle


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 30, 2022)

Henderson last night, awful, so many unnecessarily forced and wayward passes when he had much easier/smarter options, he can shout, drive and press all he wants but if his quality with the ball isn't there, which it isn't, then he shouldn't be anywhere near the starting lineup IMO. I'd argue most football fans can see that as well, only the blinkered don't.

Anyway, can't wait for Sunday, hopefully my boss is kind and I have a local job on Monday


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Henderson last night, awful, so many unnecessarily forced and wayward passes when he had much easier/smarter options, he can shout, drive and press all he wants but if his quality with the ball isn't there, which it isn't, then he shouldn't be anywhere near the starting lineup IMO. I'd argue most football fans can see that as well, only the blinkered don't.

Anyway, can't wait for Sunday, hopefully my boss is kind and I have a local job on Monday 

Click to expand...

I just see Henderson as quite a limited player. He has his uses, but that would be against stronger teams to make us more disciplined in the middle next to Rice. I couldn't see the point of bringing him in against Wales. Ultimately it's not cost us anything so whatever. He's definitely good at shouting, that seems to be his main attribute.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 30, 2022)

Congratulations England; Commiserations Wales.  Thought England were OK…overall average at best as poor in 1st half, much better outcome in 2nd as Wales remained poor and England improved just enough to take advantage.  

For next games…I’m thinking England have plenty striker options much better than including a sluggish looking Kane, especially as Henderson in midfield seemed to get himself really involved and did a good leadership job.  Thought Foden did look good, and would have Trippier back in for Walker…who did OK but not really stretched and Trippier’s dead ball delivery seems to almost always be good.

So…pleased for my Mrs and kids that England are through group stage…but so far I’ve not got enthusiastic enough about England’s play so go a bit Engerlaaand - albeit that against Iran looked good (how good they actually were though…).  Maybe the Senegal game will fire my enthusiasm, and then subsequently against a traditional major nation I will be feeling it.

it’s currently 👍👍 but I’m not yet 🕺


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 30, 2022)

I’m struggling to understand why people want England to be pressing so much in games like these. It’s like listening to parents at an u10 game who don’t really understand what they are watching.

We were cruising through the game, and group so why waste energy?


----------



## sunshine (Nov 30, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Does Southgate do wake up calls? Think I’ve said before, he’s like the scene from Black Adder Goes Forth, we’ll try the same thing over and over because the enemy won’t expect that 🙈
		
Click to expand...

er no. Obviously you don't watch any international football.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 30, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I just see Henderson as quite a limited player. He has his uses, but that would be against stronger teams to make us more disciplined in the middle next to Rice. I couldn't see the point of bringing him in against Wales. Ultimately it's not cost us anything so whatever. He's definitely good at shouting, that seems to be his main attribute.
		
Click to expand...

I think if Philips is fit then Henderson doesn't get near the team. He and Rice are the solid two in the middle. Philips getting 20 minutes or so yesterday was very important, minutes in the tank.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think if Philips is fit then Henderson doesn't get near the team. He and Rice are the solid two in the middle. Philips getting 20 minutes or so yesterday was very important, minutes in the tank.
		
Click to expand...

Must admit that while Phillips I guess is the natural successor to Henderson in terms of role, I've not seen enough of him to say he's definitely an upgrade. Rice is a class above them both but it wouldn't really matter to me who plays with him out of Henderson or Phillips.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I just see Henderson as quite a limited player. He has his uses, but that would be against stronger teams to make us more disciplined in the middle next to Rice. I couldn't see the point of bringing him in against Wales. Ultimately it's not cost us anything so whatever. He's definitely good at shouting, that seems to be his main attribute.
		
Click to expand...

So his main attribute is to shout a lot 😂

A player who has been near ever present for a team that’s won the lot over the last 4 seasons playing for one of the best managers in the world - and you think his main attribute is to shout 😂😂😂


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So his main attribute is to shout a lot 😂

A player who has been near ever present for a team that’s won the lot over the last 4 seasons playing for one of the best managers in the world - and you think his main attribute is to shout 😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Are you telling me he _doesn't_ shout a lot? Because that would be an outright lie.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 30, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Must admit that while Phillips I guess is the natural successor to Henderson in terms of role, I've not seen enough of him to say he's definitely an upgrade. Rice is a class above them both but it wouldn't really matter to me who plays with him out of Henderson or Phillips.
		
Click to expand...

I thought Philips and Rice were immense in the last Euro's. Philips gets everywhere in the middle of the pitch, harassing the opposition, being available to take the ball from the back 4. He is a real dynamo. Rice might look smoother but Philips is a player I'd love at my club, and am happy to see start for England.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I thought Philips and Rice were immense in the last Euro's. *Philips gets everywhere in the middle of the pitch, harassing the opposition, being available to take the ball from the back 4.* He is a real dynamo. Rice might look smoother but Philips is a player I'd love at my club, and am happy to see start for England.
		
Click to expand...

I kind of think that is Henderson's game as well, with lots of added shouting. As I say, either or at this stage, but beyond the World Cup you'd want to see Henderson phased out of course and Phillips to do that role longer term.


----------



## sunshine (Nov 30, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			I’m struggling to understand why people want England to be pressing so much in games like these. It’s like listening to parents at an u10 game who don’t really understand what they are watching.

We were cruising through the game, and group so why waste energy?
		
Click to expand...


Best comment on this thread.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I kind of think that is Henderson's game as well, with lots of added shouting. As I say, either or at this stage, but beyond the World Cup you'd want to see Henderson phased out of course and Phillips to do that role longer term.
		
Click to expand...

One of Henderson’s biggest things is he does shout a lot but the other players do listen.
That’s why we won the ball high up the pitch.
The thing a lot of people criticise about him is he does play a lot of sideways and backward balls.
That depends on the movement in front of him.
But ball retention in the modern game is everything.
That’s why the CBs have more touches than anyone else now.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			I’m struggling to understand why people want England to be pressing so much in games like these. It’s like listening to parents at an u10 game who don’t really understand what they are watching.

We were cruising through the game, and group so why waste energy?
		
Click to expand...

Well it is supposed to be entertainment that’s why people pay to watch.


----------



## sunshine (Nov 30, 2022)

Very professional performance from England last night, great work from Southgate.

England cruised through the first half, controlled the game, risk free football. They remained patient, knowing Wales would tire, then stepped up a gear at the start of the 2nd half, won the game and went back into cruise control mode.

Thoroughly professional group stage. Well planned and executed. If we'd nicked a goal against USA (we had a couple of chances) everyone would be chanting it's coming home already.


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 30, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well it is supposed to be entertainment that’s why people pay to watch.
		
Click to expand...

So the England team should waste their energy unnecessarily just to be (what you consider) entertaining ? That makes sense 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 30, 2022)

Henderson did ok against a side that wouldn’t get out of the championship 
I certainly wouldn’t be starting him against better opposition. 
Clapping a lot isn’t enough in those games.


----------



## HeftyHacker (Nov 30, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			So the England team should waste their energy unnecessarily just to be (what you consider) entertaining ? That makes sense 🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

The reason we were cruising was because of those high presses and starving Wales of time and space. By backing off you let them string together a few passes and move up the pitch. 

You also force mistakes further up the pitch and we have the ability to punish them.

I'm still not 100% convinced in our defence so if a high press keeps the opposition ball further up the pitch then I'm all for it. 

We actually have really good depth so I dont mind the press knowing that we won't lose much once the subs some come on to replace tired legs.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 30, 2022)

Unless I’m mistaken, but the second goal came about through our pressing high up the pitch.
So why wouldn’t we press more?


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I just see Henderson as quite a limited player. He has his uses, but that would be against stronger teams to make us more disciplined in the middle next to Rice. I couldn't see the point of bringing him in against Wales. Ultimately it's not cost us anything so whatever. He's definitely good at shouting, that seems to be his main attribute.
		
Click to expand...

It's worrying when a bang Average player like him gets more caps than Paul scholes


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Unless I’m mistaken, but the second goal came about through our pressing high up the pitch.
So why wouldn’t we press more?
		
Click to expand...

Press too much u get caught out sometimes , it's not always the way 
Mix it up


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 30, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Unless I’m mistaken, but the second goal came about through our pressing high up the pitch.
So why wouldn’t we press more?
		
Click to expand...

Kind of yes. But you can’t do it for 90 minutes in that heat.

And it’s unnecessary against teams like Wales. Play a high block, be patient, wait for your chances and use as little energy as possible.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 30, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Kind of yes. But you can’t do it for 90 minutes in that heat.

And it’s unnecessary against teams like Wales. Play a high block, be patient, wait for your chances and use as little energy as possible.
		
Click to expand...

Andros Townsend was co commentator in one of the earlier games. He was saying that heat is not an issue for the players, stadiums are pumping out cold air through the aircon, but humidity in the grounds definitely is. That is the issue for this world cup, and why players can't run flat out constantly. Thank you Andros


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			It's worrying when a bang Average player like him gets more caps than Paul scholes
		
Click to expand...

Maybe it’s because he isn’t “bang average” 🤷‍♂️

Certainly not seen as bang average by a world class manager who has him ever present when winning trophies


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe it’s because he isn’t “bang average” 🤷‍♂️

Certainly not seen as bang average by a world class manager who has him ever present when winning trophies
		
Click to expand...

Every team needs a waterboy.


----------



## Reemul (Nov 30, 2022)

sunshine said:



			Very professional performance from England last night, great work from Southgate.

England cruised through the first half, controlled the game, risk free football. They remained patient, knowing Wales would tire, then stepped up a gear at the start of the 2nd half, won the game and went back into cruise control mode.

Thoroughly professional group stage. Well planned and executed. If we'd nicked a goal against USA (we had a couple of chances) everyone would be chanting it's coming home already.
		
Click to expand...

You know Wales lost 2-0 to Iran, you make it like we actually played someone, if you can't step it up and do the business against the USA or Wales what chance do you have against  decent team


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 30, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Every team needs a waterboy.
		
Click to expand...

That's Maddisons role. Id like to see Hendo in every KO game - we need the leadership in the middle of the park.


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe you just don’t see what he brings to the team - it’s not just about getting as many young skillful players onto the pitch

Henderson last night provided what he does for Liverpool over the last 4 seasons - tempo , pressing , energy , control , leadership , drive - that was all missing against USA

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...n=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

“
Hendo [Henderson] brings that intensity every time he plays, and when he gives you that confidence to go and press, I can go and push on and Dec [Declan Rice] can be aggressive.

"We won a lot of balls really high up the pitch which was key to us retaining the pressure and keeping them”

You will always need some control and experience in the middle
		
Click to expand...

I would agree that Henderson has been very good for Liverpool as you say over the last 3/4 that’s partly my point his best days are behind him. 

No matter what you say his first half performance wasn’t that good plus we were playing a very poor team. 

So if you want him in the team who would you leave out in his position? Philips has played well for England and if GS wants to play either alongside Rice as I suspect he will imo Philips if fit would be the better choice.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			That's Maddisons role. Id like to see Hendo in every KO game - we need the leadership in the middle of the park.
		
Click to expand...

Rice will be future England captain , he already shouts a lot at the players 

You don't need Henderson taking up a role that Bellingham can do.

Let's not hold back talent to have a 32 year old in the team who tbh should have retired from England duty before this world cup


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 30, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Rice will be future England captain , he already shouts a lot at the players

You don't need Henderson taking up a role that Bellingham can do.

Let's not hold back talent to have a 32 year old in the team who tbh should have retired from England duty before this world cup
		
Click to expand...

Lets not get ahead of ourselves.

Hendo has won a prem and a champions league at the heart of one of the two best english teams over the last 5 years. Rice and Bellingham have won nothing. There something to be said about getting it over the line.

Jude and Rice are both insane talents - Jude probably more so - but I trust hendo to do the right thing 90% of the time and lead by example - do not undervalue experience in World Cups. 

Id start Bellingham, he's got it all and looks the part this world cup, Id happily see Rice dropped for Hendo though.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Lets not get ahead of ourselves.

Hendo has won a prem and a champions league at the heart of one of the two best english teams over the last 5 years. Rice and Bellingham have won nothing. There something to be said about getting it over the line.

Jude and Rice are both insane talents - Jude probably more so - but I trust hendo to do the right thing 90% of the time and lead by example - do not undervalue experience in World Cups.

Id start Bellingham, he's got it all and looks the part this world cup, Id happily see Rice dropped for Hendo though.
		
Click to expand...

Rice won't be dropped, he is the heart of the England midfield. Litterally keeps the defence protected 

That rashford chance from a kane through ball came all from rice cutting out the ball and playing it to kane 

Prob one of the best CDM in world football.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Lets not get ahead of ourselves.

Hendo has won a prem and a champions league at the heart of one of the two best english teams over the last 5 years. Rice and Bellingham have won nothing. There something to be said about getting it over the line.

Jude and Rice are both insane talents - Jude probably more so - but I trust hendo to do the right thing 90% of the time and lead by example - do not undervalue experience in World Cups.

Id start Bellingham, he's got it all and looks the part this world cup, Id happily see Rice dropped for Hendo though.
		
Click to expand...

Will also add "winners" doesn't mean anything when it comes for England 

Lamps 
Gerrard 
Beckham 
Rio 
Terry 

So many more 

All proper winners 

Couldn't for England 

It's time to put that out of our minds and focus on actual talents to get us accross the line 

It's been great to see a west ham midfield in the England team. We are rubbish but shows if your good enough 

Parker didn't play enough for England because he played for likes of Newcastle, west ham, spurs where as Barry did and he was far better than Barry


----------



## fundy (Nov 30, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Rice won't be dropped, he is the heart of the England midfield. Litterally keeps the defence protected

That rashford chance from a kane through ball came all from rice cutting out the ball and playing it to kane

Prob one of the best CDM in world football.
		
Click to expand...


Youre gonna miss him when he goes in the summer, thats for sure


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2022)

fundy said:



			Youre gonna miss him when he goes in the summer, thats for sure
		
Click to expand...

100% , he's gone next summer im 80% sure 

Part of me wishes we would just let him run down his contract and get a few more seasons of the best player I'll see in a west ham shirt because we won't replace him for the money 

Ironically I got a feeling him and / or Bellingham will end up at Liverpool


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Rice won't be dropped, he is the heart of the England midfield. Litterally keeps the defence protected

That rashford chance from a kane through ball came all from rice cutting out the ball and playing it to kane

Prob one of the best CDM in world football.
		
Click to expand...

he isn’t even the best Defensive Mid in the Prem let alone world football - he is a decent player with a decent engineer who does well in a small pond , he hasn’t stood out so far in the World Cup 

He is a good player but it’s typical for some to blow it way over board. 


Rlburnside said:



			I would agree that Henderson has been very good for Liverpool as you say over the last 3/4 that’s partly my point his best days are behind him.

No matter what you say his first half performance wasn’t that good plus we were playing a very poor team.

So if you want him in the team who would you leave out in his position? Philips has played well for England and if GS wants to play either alongside Rice as I suspect he will imo Philips if fit would be the better choice.
		
Click to expand...

Right now It should be Henderson with either Rice or Phillips and then Bellingham just ahead in a more forward role. 

Rice and Phillips are decent players but neither have proven themselves yet - Phillips May when he plays more for City and Rice will need to move to a big club to play regularly in Champions League.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			he isn’t even the best Defensive Mid in the Prem let alone world football - he is a decent player with a decent engineer who does well in a small pond , he hasn’t stood out so far in the World Cup

He is a good player but it’s typical for some to blow it way over board.


Right now It should be Henderson with either Rice or Phillips and then Bellingham just ahead in a more forward role.

Rice and Phillips are decent players but neither have proven themselves yet - Phillips May when he plays more for City and Rice will need to move to a big club to play regularly in Champions League.
		
Click to expand...

In your opinion.

Rice would walk into any of the premier League teams right now 

Especially Liverpool when they need new legs to play the way klopp wants.

The only team he would "struggle" to get in. Would be city because of their depth of talent but he would still play 30 plus premier League games a season for them 

Anyone else he would be first team.


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 30, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Will also add "winners" doesn't mean anything when it comes for England

Lamps
Gerrard
Beckham
Rio
Terry

So many more

All proper winners

Couldn't for England

It's time to put that out of our minds and focus on actual talents to get us accross the line

It's been great to see a west ham midfield in the England team. We are rubbish but shows if your good enough

Parker didn't play enough for England because he played for likes of Newcastle, west ham, spurs where as Barry did and he was far better than Barry
		
Click to expand...


West Ham fan thinks West Ham players are the best - Classic.

Rice is a good player, he may one day be a great player - but I've yet to see anything from him that shows me what makes him so great when playing for England. 

I believe Hendo is the talent to get us across the line. When were 1-0 down chasing the game Id want him on the pitch yelling and shouting. Ive heard zero commenst about Rice's leadership this world cup - Hendo plays one game and its all they talked about on the radio when I was driving to work this morning. Its a noticeable difference and we played better last night than we have all tournament.


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			he isn’t even the best Defensive Mid in the Prem let alone world football - he is a decent player with a decent engineer who does well in a small pond , he hasn’t stood out so far in the World Cup

He is a good player but it’s typical for some to blow it way over board.


Right now It should be Henderson with either Rice or Phillips and then Bellingham just ahead in a more forward role.

Rice and Phillips are decent players but neither have proven themselves yet - Phillips May when he plays more for City and Rice will need to move to a big club to play regularly in Champions League.
		
Click to expand...

I would agree about Bellingham who should be starting playing in front of the defensive two. 

But we’re not going to agree about Henderson so I will leave it there 👍


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2022)

Is this the current conversation:

Most seem to agree Rice and Phillips are very good / promising players (that should probably be in the team when fit), but a Liverpool fan is quick to tell us that they are decent, but certainly not great and stand out players in this world cup.

On the other hand, most also seem to agree Henderson is, at best, a squad player and is not good enough to start for England. But, a Liverpool fan thinks he should, that he is one of England's finest, and he shouts at players really well.

We're all entitled to our opinion, but I suspect Liverpoolphil has some bias in his opinion. If Rice played for Liverpool, and Henderson played for Man Utd (or anyone but Liverpool), then Rice would be world class and Henderson a terrible player, long past it.

I'm not denying Henderson can do the dirty work if needed, and probably deserves his place in the squad (especially with Phillips having been out injured). But, he is a squad player (or should be in my opinion). He is nothing special at all. Rice and Phillips ahead of him all day long in the defensive midfield positions, and in the attacking midfield positions Henderson is firmly last compared to the other midfielders. In fact, I'd put some defenders in a more advanced midfield position before Henderson


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			West Ham fan thinks West Ham players are the best - Classic.

Rice is a good player, he may one day be a great player - but I've yet to see anything from him that shows me what makes him so great when playing for England.

I believe Hendo is the talent to get us across the line. When were 1-0 down chasing the game Id want him on the pitch yelling and shouting. Ive heard zero commenst about Rice's leadership this world cup - Hendo plays one game and its all they talked about on the radio when I was driving to work this morning. Its a noticeable difference and we played better last night than we have all tournament.
		
Click to expand...

I think the truth is in the middle somewhere - @pauljames87 is overdoing the Rice praise just a touch, but I do think he's a fantastic talent, he's better on the ball than a lot of people realise because he plays within himself a lot of the time. And if you're not hearing his name too much, for a defensive role that's normally no bad thing as it means he's doing his job quietly and efficiently. Now if you'd rather have Hendo because he rants and raves at his teammates all game, then that's up to you, each to their own and all that. Sounds a bit old-school to me, I'd rather have the better footballer. Rice is captain of his club as well at only 23 years of age so it's unlikely that he has no leadership qualities at all.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 30, 2022)

If Henderson played for any other club this wouldn’t even be dabated.
Everyone of their players are the best 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 30, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Is this the current conversation:

Most seem to agree Rice and Phillips are very good / promising players (that should probably be in the team when fit), but a Liverpool fan is quick to tell us that they are decent, but certainly not great and stand out players in this world cup.

On the other hand, most also seem to agree Henderson is, at best, a squad player and is not good enough to start for England. But, a Liverpool fan thinks he should, that he is one of England's finest, and he shouts at players really well.

We're all entitled to our opinion, but I suspect Liverpoolphil has some bias in his opinion. If Rice played for Liverpool, and Henderson played for Man Utd (or anyone but Liverpool), then Rice would be world class and Henderson a terrible player, long past it.

I'm not denying Henderson can do the dirty work if needed, and probably deserves his place in the squad (especially with Phillips having been out injured). But, he is a squad player (or should be in my opinion). He is nothing special at all. Rice and Phillips ahead of him all day long in the defensive midfield positions, and in the attacking midfield positions Henderson is firmly last compared to the other midfielders. In fact, I'd put some defenders in a more advanced midfield position before Henderson 

Click to expand...

I have no horse in this race as a Villa fan and I still think Hendo should be one of the 3. 

Two others to compliment him - no issue at all who they are but Bellingham and Rice would be my preference - and Jude is an ex Blue nose! Phillips has barely kicked a ball all season, not a starter for me. He bored the life out of me in the Euros and never looks for a forward pass.

There's so much merit in having a real leader on the pitch. Kane is not a leader of men, he's not even Spurs's captain!


----------



## fundy (Nov 30, 2022)

France taking the opportunity to rest the majority of their best side


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 30, 2022)

I see the footie thread is making a push again for the number 1 spot in the "my opinion is fact and therefore right" thread league again. It would probably be a good discussion if the West Ham fan was rooting for Hendo and the Liverpool fan was rooting for Rice. 

I dont think any one doubts that the future of the England midfield will be based around Rice & Bellingham, with Phillips being the likely 3rd member from what I can see. But that is the future and this is now. Henderson offers experience and leadership skills that non of the others do, my midfield 3 would be Bellingham/Rice/Henderson for the Senegal game. Kane wont be dropped and I'd have Foden on the left and probably Saka on the right.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Is this the current conversation:

Most seem to agree Rice and Phillips are very good / promising players (that should probably be in the team when fit), but a Liverpool fan is quick to tell us that they are decent, but certainly not great and stand out players in this world cup.

On the other hand, most also seem to agree Henderson is, at best, a squad player and is not good enough to start for England. But, a Liverpool fan thinks he should,* that he is one of England's finest,* and he shouts at players really well.

We're all entitled to our opinion, but I suspect Liverpoolphil has some bias in his opinion. If Rice played for Liverpool, and Henderson played for Man Utd (or anyone but Liverpool), then Rice would be world class and Henderson a terrible player, long past it.

I'm not denying Henderson can do the dirty work if needed, and probably deserves his place in the squad (especially with Phillips having been out injured). But, he is a squad player (or should be in my opinion). He is nothing special at all. Rice and Phillips ahead of him all day long in the defensive midfield positions, and in the attacking midfield positions Henderson is firmly last compared to the other midfielders. In fact, I'd put some defenders in a more advanced midfield position before Henderson 

Click to expand...

Not like you to take things wildly out of context - but if you wish you can find out where someone has said anything remotely close that 

but here is the issue 

Fans of certain clubs clearly don’t see what Henderson brings to a team - ( and it’s more than just shouting at someone )

Top class managers do understand that hence why he plays a lot for big team that wins trophies. He isn’t world class , he isn’t the greatest player to pull on a football shirt - he is a very good player who has proven that at the highest level. He did a very good job for the midfield yesterday. That’s been recognised by many in the game apart from the West Ham fan who clearly has an issue with Henderson

Now the same West Ham is also saying that Rice is one of the best in the World where as others are saying he is a very good player who will prob need to make a step up to show he is a top class player 

Phillips is also another good player but has spent the season sat on the sidelines and Phillips is prob the player Henderson is for Liverpool 

And the final detail is Henderson provided leadership to the middle of the park that previously was lacking a little 

so the detail is always somewhere in the middle but what we do see is the standard london centre England fan who can’t see past their own players in their own small club - players who haven’t really produced beyond a small pond


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not like you to take things wildly out of context - but if you wish you can find out where someone has said anything remotely close that

but here is the issue

Fans of certain clubs clearly don’t see what Henderson brings to a team - ( and it’s more than just shouting at someone )

Top class managers do understand that hence why he plays a lot for big team that wins trophies. He isn’t world class , he isn’t the greatest player to pull on a football shirt - he is a very good player who has proven that at the highest level. He did a very good job for the midfield yesterday. That’s been recognised by many in the game apart from the West Ham fan who clearly has an issue with Henderson

Now the same West Ham is also saying that Rice is one of the best in the World where as others are saying he is a very good player who will prob need to make a step up to show he is a top class player

Phillips is also another good player but has spent the season sat on the sidelines and Phillips is prob the player Henderson is for Liverpool

And the final detail is Henderson provided leadership to the middle of the park that previously was lacking a little

so the detail is always somewhere in the middle but what we do see is the standard london centre England fan who can’t see past their own players in their own small club - players who haven’t really produced beyond a small pond
		
Click to expand...

Considering we have produced some of the most decorated English players from our small pond it's not a bad pond 🤣

Do you even know where your pond is?


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 30, 2022)

Is shouting now considered an essential attribute for a leader on the pitch as it is a manager 😆


----------



## BiMGuy (Nov 30, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Considering we have produced some of the most decorated English players from our small pond it's not a bad pond 🤣

Do you even know where your pond is?
		
Click to expand...

It’s a filthy puddle not a pond 😂


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			It’s a filthy puddle not a pond 😂
		
Click to expand...

Just shows a lack of footballing knowledge when our "small ponders" who havent produced outside the small pond are 

Lampard (record goal scoring midfielder)
Rio 
Johnson
Carrick (fergie rated him)
J cole 
Paul Ince 
Tony cottee 

Even Terry was part of the system until 14 I think

But yeah none of them performed


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 30, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Just shows a lack of footballing knowledge when our "small ponders" who havent produced outside the small pond are

Lampard (record goal scoring midfielder)
Rio
Johnson
Carrick (fergie rated him)
J cole
Paul Ince
Tony cottee

Even Terry was part of the system until 14 I think

But yeah none of them performed
		
Click to expand...


Nobody has mentioned any of those players though have they, Rice is being discussed and as of yet he hasnt produced anything of note outside a West Ham shirt. He is a very good player who provided nothing goes wrong will no doubt have a very good career, but I imagine if he wants to win any club trophies of note he will need to leave West Ham in the same way the players you have listed needed to.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Nobody has mentioned any of those players though have they, Rice is being discussed and as of yet he hasnt produced anything of note outside a West Ham shirt. He is a very good player who provided nothing goes wrong will no doubt have a very good career, but I imagine if he wants to win any club trophies of note he will need to leave West Ham in the same way the players you have listed needed to.
		
Click to expand...

Fair maybe I misread. However back to what I said earlier we need to look PAST what players achieve at club to be oh look what they will achieve for country

All those mentioned above how well did they play for club? Add Beckham, Gerrard. Scholes, David seaman, sheringham , Owen

Etc etc

What did they do for England? Did we get over the line?

We came closer with a team full of not won much in 2021 ...

So let's move past this oh they are winners so must be good and play the best talents

I'll use Pickford as an example . Never going to win anything for club, first name on England team sheet and tbh wouldn't change him


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 30, 2022)

Rice was superb in the Euros,he’s been steady in this World Cup and done his job well.
He’s 100% going to a bigger club very soon and could become a great for England in the future.
Henderson did a good job last night against a very weak midfield,Will or can he produce a big performance against a better team I’m not so sure,however he can still play a big part in the tournament.
I think Philips could get the nod in the quarterfinals.
France are resting players something I believe Southgate should have done especially Kane and Bellingham.
We definitely have the ammo to beat Senegal whoever plays imo.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Nobody has mentioned any of those players though have they, Rice is being discussed and as of yet he hasnt produced anything of note outside a West Ham shirt. He is a very good player who provided nothing goes wrong will no doubt have a very good career, but I imagine if he wants to win any club trophies of note he will need to leave West Ham in the same way the players you have listed needed to.
		
Click to expand...

I’m not exactly sure what that list of players is about 🤷‍♂️ 

rice is a very good player - could become a top player but needs to show at a top club and consistently against the best in Europe - Grealish is one who looked superb for Villa but still struggling to make that impact at City 

Rice will prob go to Chelsea and there he can show if he really is that good


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			There's so much merit in having a real leader on the pitch. Kane is not a leader of men, he's not even Spurs's captain!
		
Click to expand...

Don't want to be the Spurs fan defending Kane again, but honestly, why do you think he would have got the armband if he isn't a leader? The same was said about Beckham years ago and he turned out to be a superb captain, in my opinion anyway. Both of them lead by example with sheer determination. I think we need to get out of this DUUUR PASHUN!1 English mentality that you can't be a leader if you're not shouting and screaming constantly.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not like you to take things wildly out of context - but if you wish you can find out where someone has said anything remotely close that

but here is the issue

Fans of certain clubs clearly don’t see what Henderson brings to a team - ( and it’s more than just shouting at someone )

*Top class managers do understand that hence why he plays a lot for big team that wins trophies.* He isn’t world class , he isn’t the greatest player to pull on a football shirt - he is a very good player who has proven that at the highest level. He did a very good job for the midfield yesterday. That’s been recognised by many in the game apart from the West Ham fan who clearly has an issue with Henderson

Now the same West Ham is also saying that Rice is one of the best in the World where as others are saying he is a very good player who will prob need to make a step up to show he is a top class player

Phillips is also another good player but has spent the season sat on the sidelines and Phillips is prob the player Henderson is for Liverpool

And the final detail is Henderson provided leadership to the middle of the park that previously was lacking a little

so the detail is always somewhere in the middle but what we do see is the standard london centre England fan who can’t see past their own players in their own small club - players who haven’t really produced beyond a small pond
		
Click to expand...

Just out of interest, which top class managers are we talking about, and what teams has he won trophies for? He has won stuff for Liverpool, and I accept Klopp is a decent manager. What teams / managers are the others (I assume it is plural?). Clearly you do not mean Southgate, as I believe you've already dismissed him as being a top class manager.

Not trying to catch you out, I'm just can't remember too much of Henderson's success before he joined Liverpool, or his successes for his country.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Just out of interest, which top class managers are we talking about, and what teams has he won trophies for? He has won stuff for Liverpool, and I accept Klopp is a decent manager. What teams / managers are the others (I assume it is plural?). Clearly you do not mean Southgate, as I believe you've already dismissed him as being a top class manager.

Not trying to catch you out, I'm just can't remember too much of Henderson's success before he joined Liverpool, or his successes for his country.
		
Click to expand...

Steve Bruce and his Sunderland young player of the year award clearly


----------



## Bdill93 (Nov 30, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Don't want to be the Spurs fan defending Kane again, but honestly, why do you think he would have got the armband if he isn't a leader? The same was said about Beckham years ago and he turned out to be a superb captain, in my opinion anyway. Both of them lead by example with sheer determination. I think we need to get out of this DUUUR PASHUN!1 English mentality that you can't be a leader if you're not shouting and screaming constantly. 

Click to expand...

He's the first name on every team sheet if he's fit. That's why. Every other position in this England team is up for debate but Harry Kane starts in everyone's team (except the deluded fans) He's been around a while and may lead by example - sure - but he's not his club captain so Spurs themselves clearly think someone else is better for the job. 

There's far more to Hendo's game than shouting, he's no worse a footballer than Kalvin Phillips and certainly has better leadership skills. Also - what has Mount brought to the table this WC so far, because that's who I'm suggesting is dropped for Hendo - not Rice or Bellingham. 

Its not all about throwing on a bunch of 20 year old talented players - its balancing everything out for the best outcome.


----------



## pendodave (Nov 30, 2022)

I'd normally be entirely dismissive about a one off personal anecdote, but on balance I reckon it'll slightly raise the tone of this thread...
Anyhows, I have watched Henderson play in person once. Albeit against West Ham. Despite preconceptions, I was impressed by how he linked up defence and midfield and by the vertical (aka forward) nature of most of his passing. I left converted.


----------



## GreiginFife (Nov 30, 2022)

France B team almost taking the lead there but for a tight call.


----------



## D-S (Nov 30, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			France B team almost taking the lead there but for a tight call.
		
Click to expand...

I think it was Tunisia who had the goal disallowed.


----------



## GreiginFife (Nov 30, 2022)

D-S said:



			I think it was Tunisia who had the goal disallowed.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know


----------



## BrianM (Nov 30, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			France B team almost taking the lead there but for a tight call.
		
Click to expand...

Some stat that 😂😂


----------



## BrianM (Nov 30, 2022)

The French Kit is absolutely A1 😎😎👌🏻


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			He's the first name on every team sheet if he's fit. That's why. Every other position in this England team is up for debate but Harry Kane starts in everyone's team (except the deluded fans) He's been around a while and may lead by example - sure - but he's not his club captain so Spurs themselves clearly think someone else is better for the job.

There's far more to Hendo's game than shouting, he's no worse a footballer than Kalvin Phillips and certainly has better leadership skills. Also - what has Mount brought to the table this WC so far, because that's who I'm suggesting is dropped for Hendo - not Rice or Bellingham.

Its not all about throwing on a bunch of 20 year old talented players - its balancing everything out for the best outcome.
		
Click to expand...

We gave Lloris the captaincy years ago in his prime as a bid to stop him leaving the club I believe. And you don't really strip your captain of the armband unless you're trying to make a point. I'm not a big fan of keepers as captains myself, and it's clear Kane is the proxy captain for the guys who are out on pitch! And if we replace Hugo and Kane hasn't left yet then he obviously will be.

Happy to leave Mount out, I'm just not sure why he's allergic to playing Foden as the number 10. He moaned and said it's because he doesn't play there for his club, yet he happily plays Trippier left back, and plays Maguire who sits on the bench for his club.  Let's face it, when we play France he'll go back to 5 at the back plus Rice & Henderson holding anyway.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			Yeah, I know
		
Click to expand...

France are fielding their B team and Cameroon are the C team so Tunisia must be the D team.


----------



## GreiginFife (Nov 30, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			France are fielding their B team and Cameroon are the C team so Tunisia must be the D team. 

Click to expand...

Yeah, I realised that after seeing the France line up (joined the game after it started)


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 30, 2022)

pendodave said:



			I'd normally be entirely dismissive about a one off personal anecdote, but on balance I reckon it'll slightly raise the tone of this thread...
Anyhows, I have watched Henderson play in person once. Albeit against West Ham. Despite preconceptions, I was impressed by how he linked up defence and midfield and by the vertical (aka forward) nature of most of his passing. I left converted.
		
Click to expand...

I also have only watched Spurs once since they moved to the new stadium ( a 3-0 win against Arsenal btw😂) 

I was impressed the way Dier shouted the whole match and marshaled the defense but soon realized just shouting in a match doesn’t make you a great player 😂


----------



## sunshine (Nov 30, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Just shows a lack of footballing knowledge when our "small ponders" who havent produced outside the small pond are

Lampard (record goal scoring midfielder)
Rio
Johnson
Carrick (fergie rated him)
J cole
Paul Ince
Tony cottee

Even Terry was part of the system until 14 I think

But yeah none of them performed
		
Click to expand...

For the match against Senegal my starting XI would be:

Parkes
Johnson, Rio, Moore, Dicks
Rice, Brooking, Noble
J Cole, Cottee, Hurst


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2022)

sunshine said:



			For the match against Senegal my starting XI would be:

Parkes
Johnson, Rio, Moore, Dicks
Rice, Brooking, Noble
J Cole, Cottee, Hurst
		
Click to expand...

Thought moore might be a bit tough now days but the rest could give it a good go..


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2022)

pendodave said:



			I'd normally be entirely dismissive about a one off personal anecdote, but on balance I reckon it'll slightly raise the tone of this thread...
Anyhows, I have watched Henderson play in person once. Albeit against West Ham. Despite preconceptions, I was impressed by how he linked up defence and midfield and by the vertical (aka forward) nature of most of his passing. I left converted.
		
Click to expand...

That’s pretty much it - he is very much a link  player , nothing flashy , nothing that’s stands out above peers but does a lot of unseen ugly work - he looks to dictate the intensity , when to press and when to sit and his organisation skills are superb. He was superb for Rodgers the year we nearly won it and many see him getting sent off as a big reason for us missing out that year and I thought when Klopp came then he might not last - but he has been excellent for us.

He isn’t a KBD or Bellingham or Gerrard etc - but he does a very good job - and yes being a vocal player is also part of it. 

He has been a proper captain for us and still think he is better captain for England but can see why Kane gets it


----------



## sunshine (Nov 30, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Don't want to be the Spurs fan defending again
		
Click to expand...

Defending has been a problem all season for Spurs


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 30, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Lets not get ahead of ourselves.

*Hendo has won a prem and a champions league* at the heart of one of the two best english teams over the last 5 years. *Rice and Bellingham have won nothing.* There something to be said about getting it over the line.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure this argument stands up to scrutiny. 

Djimi Traore has won a Champions League medal, and players such as Darron Gibson, Igor Stepanovs, Luke Chadwick and Jeremy Aliadiere have Premier League winners medals.

Michael Ballack, Pavel Nedved, Lilian Thuram, Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Ronaldo (the Brazilian one) have never won the Champions League. Gerrard, Kane, Suarez, Modric and Bale have never won the Premier League.

Winning stuff doesn't automatically make you a good or great player in just the same way that not winning stuff doesn't make you a bad player.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'm not sure this argument stands up to scrutiny.

Djimi Traore has won a Champions League medal, and players such as Darron Gibson, Igor Stepanovs, Luke Chadwick and Jeremy Aliadiere have Premier League winners medals.

Michael Ballack, Pavel Nedved, Lilian Thuram, Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Ronaldo (the Brazilian one) have never won the Champions League. Gerrard, Kane, Suarez, Modric and Bale have never won the Premier League.

Winning stuff doesn't automatically make you a good or great player in just the same way that not winning stuff doesn't make you a bad player.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair there are those who think Messi isn't all that because he hasn't played in the prem let alone won it 🤣


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 30, 2022)

Denmark were absolutely abysmal in this competition and look at have a major rebuild ahead. Eriksen is sadly not the player he was, and they had no strikers nor decent wingers to create anything. Deservedly last in the group.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'm not sure this argument stands up to scrutiny.

Djimi Traore has won a Champions League medal, and players such as Darron Gibson, Igor Stepanovs, Luke Chadwick and Jeremy Aliadiere have Premier League winners medals.

Michael Ballack, Pavel Nedved, Lilian Thuram, Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Ronaldo (the Brazilian one) have never won the Champions League. Gerrard, Kane, Suarez, Modric and Bale have never won the Premier League.

Winning stuff doesn't automatically make you a good or great player in just the same way that not winning stuff doesn't make you a bad player.
		
Click to expand...

I think it is one of those lazy arguments, when people are trying to compare the ability of certain players. Even pundits (ex footballers, so apparently they know everything as they've played the game) do it. How often will they dismiss a player because they haven't won a World Cup, for example whereas another player they are comparing to has? They try and use that to make a point, but will blissfully ignore the fact players like George Best, Platini, Cruyff, C Ronaldo, Messi etc have never won a World Cup, while Kleberson has won it


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Denmark were absolutely abysmal in this competition and look at have a major rebuild ahead. Eriksen is sadly not the player he was, and they had no strikers nor decent wingers to create anything. Deservedly last in the group.
		
Click to expand...

Denmark were only good in the euros because they were playing for Ericson.. turns out now he is fully well and fine their back to awful


----------



## nickjdavis (Nov 30, 2022)

Looking forward to the conclusion of Group C tonight....all four teams can qualify, three of them can top the group.

Everything up for grabs...who will grasp glory?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			So the England team should waste their energy unnecessarily just to be (what you consider) entertaining ? That makes sense 🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Yes it does we played our best football on the front foot.
But if you like watching the CBs just passing to each other you crack on.


----------



## CountLippe (Nov 30, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I think it is one of those lazy arguments, when people are trying to compare the ability of certain players. Even pundits (ex footballers, so apparently they know everything as they've played the game) do it. How often will they dismiss a player because they haven't won a World Cup, for example whereas another player they are comparing to has? They try and use that to make a point, but will blissfully ignore the fact players like George Best, Platini, Cruyff, C Ronaldo, Messi etc have never won a World Cup, while Kleberson has won it
		
Click to expand...

It can be a lazy argument, especially at international level, however the point being made is that Henderson has captained a side to win the Premier League, European Cup, WCC, Euro Super Cup, FA Cup and League cup.  That's a hell of a lot of winning experience of which he's played a significant part.  Not many (if any) of the England squad can match that.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			100% , he's gone next summer im 80% sure

Part of me wishes we would just let him run down his contract and get a few more seasons of the best player I'll see in a west ham shirt because we won't replace him for the money

Ironically I got a feeling him and / or Bellingham will end up at Liverpool
		
Click to expand...

Jeez I hope your right two great players and we need them.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Jeez I hope your right two great players and we need them.
		
Click to expand...

Think would transform your midfield again to really push citeh


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 30, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			So the England team should waste their energy unnecessarily just to be (what you consider) entertaining ? That makes sense 🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

no, they should use their energy to try to score , or enable others to have the chance to score, and thus win. Passing sideways because it’s easy and takes away responsibility is wasting energy and inviting mistakes -and then  the whole purpose of being there is wasted.
If you aren’t good enough to pass the ball forward, at that level, you shouldn’t be there.
And that includes the manager(s) who instruct such tactics.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'm not sure this argument stands up to scrutiny.

Djimi Traore has won a Champions League medal, and players such as Darron Gibson, Igor Stepanovs, Luke Chadwick and Jeremy Aliadiere have Premier League winners medals.

Michael Ballack, Pavel Nedved, Lilian Thuram, Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Ronaldo (the Brazilian one) have never won the Champions League. Gerrard, Kane, Suarez, Modric and Bale have never won the Premier League.

Winning stuff doesn't automatically make you a good or great player in just the same way that not winning stuff doesn't make you a bad player.
		
Click to expand...

Surely it about context 

We aren’t talking about someone winning something as a one off and no one has suggested such and such is better than someone else because they won x y and Z 

What Henderson has done over the last 5 years is win everything going at a club level whilst being ever present and captain - it was used to highlight his importance at club level when someone called him “bang average” - and also showing that when it’s counted Henderson has been there and done it over a number of seasons and not just a one off 

Also don’t think anyone compared the relative abilities of each player under discussion more what each player can bring to a team and in Henderson case it’s more than just “shouting a lot” - but Henderson will be one of those players that will never get the full credit that his career deserves and plenty of oppo fans will prob not understand or see what he gives for a team.


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2022)

CountLippe said:



			It can be a lazy argument, especially at international level, however the point being made is that Henderson has captained a side to win the Premier League, European Cup, WCC, Euro Super Cup, FA Cup and League cup.  That's a hell of a lot of winning experience of which he's played a significant part.  Not many (if any) of the England squad can match that.
		
Click to expand...

Yet winning experience counts for nothing when some claim Christiano Ronaldo was the problem at United last season, and some even claim he shouldn't be in the Portuguese squad this World Cup.

I'd imagine many might feel Henderson was not instrumental in that success. Yes, he played a part and he does a job. However, I'd imagine Klopp could have had many many other midfielders in his place, and had similar success. The major drivers of the success in that side were the front 3, solid spine at the back and full backs who added plenty to attack. If Liverpool were to lose a player from the successful side, then I am sure they'd rather have lost Henderson than many of the other guys.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 30, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes it does we played our best football on the front foot.
But if you like watching the CBs just passing to each other you crack on.
		
Click to expand...

I was on about this to Missis T earlier on when a forummer mentioned Stones ( and others) spent all night knocking the ball sideways. He wasn’t wrong in saying that, But there in lies a massive problem for me. Who comes from the midfield to pick up the ball and lay it off. To create, to make the link between defence and midfield, usually two of the midfielders picked are defensive mids. Known more for stopping play rather than create. The lack of that creative midfielder means we struggle to play on the front front.
On another note, it is young Bradley Tashys 10th birthday next week. Missis Tash has booked us to go and see a Micheal Jackson Tribute act on Sunday. He loves Jacko. It Starts at 7.30.

😳 OH CRUEL HAND OF FATE WHY DO YOU MOCK ME Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh.


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 30, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Denmark were absolutely abysmal in this competition and look at have a major rebuild ahead. Eriksen is sadly not the player he was, and they had no strikers nor decent wingers to create anything. Deservedly last in the group.
		
Click to expand...

Albeit having a good season for Utd
I think their squad overall was very poor


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			We gave Lloris the captaincy years ago in his prime as a bid to stop him leaving the club I believe. And you don't really strip your captain of the armband unless you're trying to make a point. I'm not a big fan of keepers as captains myself, and it's clear Kane is the proxy captain for the guys who are out on pitch! And if we replace Hugo and Kane hasn't left yet then he obviously will be.

Happy to leave Mount out, I'm just not sure why he's allergic to playing Foden as the number 10. He moaned and said it's because he doesn't play there for his club, yet he happily plays Trippier left back, and plays Maguire who sits on the bench for his club.  Let's face it, when we play France he'll go back to 5 at the back plus Rice & Henderson holding anyway.
		
Click to expand...

That’s not great loyalty is it ?
Got to give him the armband to make him stay.


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 30, 2022)

That’s never a penalty against Messi


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2022)

sunshine said:



			For the match against Senegal my starting XI would be:

Parkes
Johnson, Rio, Moore, Dicks
Rice, Brooking, Noble
J Cole, Cottee, Hurst
		
Click to expand...

Is that the walking football World Cup.


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 30, 2022)

Justice


----------



## Imurg (Nov 30, 2022)

Justice...


----------



## srixon 1 (Nov 30, 2022)

VAR is a joke. Football is becoming a laughing stock.


----------



## fundy (Nov 30, 2022)

justice i believe


----------



## IanM (Nov 30, 2022)

Crikey .  I'm turning off to watch Location location if that's a pen


Well done Chez


----------



## Swango1980 (Nov 30, 2022)

Apparently there are 5 or 6 officials in VAR room. And between them, they felt ref had made an obvious error, and thought that was a penalty??????


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 30, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Apparently there are 5 or 6 officials in VAR room. And between them, they felt ref had made an obvious error, and thought that was a penalty??????
		
Click to expand...

And add into that, he then agreed 🤷‍♂️


----------



## IanM (Nov 30, 2022)

Maybe it was subject to a FIFA ruling?

Exibit B. The two "pens" in the England Iran game?   One given,  one not.

Fraud or incompetence?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			I was on about this to Missis T earlier on when a forummer mentioned Stones ( and others) spent all night knocking the ball sideways. He wasn’t wrong in saying that, But there in lies a massive problem for me. Who comes from the midfield to pick up the ball and lay it off. To create, to make the link between defence and midfield, usually two of the midfielders picked are defensive mids. Known more for stopping play rather than create. The lack of that creative midfielder means we struggle to play on the front front.
On another note, it is young Bradley Tashys 10th birthday next week. Missis Tash has booked us to go and see a Micheal Jackson Tribute act on Sunday. He loves Jacko. It Starts at 7.30.

😳 OH CRUEL HAND OF FATE WHY DO YOU MOCK ME Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh.
		
Click to expand...

The game will be a THRILLER,


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 30, 2022)

Considering Messis  header was already in row Z when the keeper “ caught him”. That’s a shocker.


----------



## fundy (Nov 30, 2022)

Seems Ben White has returned to England for personal reasons and isnt expected to return. Doesnt sound good


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 30, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			The game will be a THRILLER,
		
Click to expand...

🤔😳😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2022)

fundy said:



			Seems Ben White has returned to England for personal reasons and isnt expected to return. Doesnt sound good 

Click to expand...

That’s a shame for the lad.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 30, 2022)

srixon 1 said:



			VAR is a joke. Football is becoming a laughing stock.
		
Click to expand...

Actually though, it’s not a fault of VAR here , is it?

VAR let us see what happened, and it’s the idiot referee who saw an accidental contact made by the goalie as he followed through and caught the man who had a split second before knocked the ball away( with his head), and made the decision he did😳.
Just because it happened in the pen area. It’s becoming a non contact sport, even when the contact is an accident.
Pathetic decision, ruining the game by encouraging cheating by exaggerating the effects of the contact.
Descartes must be turning in his grave.!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2022)

Mexico stunner.


----------



## fundy (Nov 30, 2022)

Poland in danger of heading the same way as Denmark, Belgium for the treble tomorrow?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2022)

Argentina look a lot better tonight - do like the look of Fernandez , another very good South American playing in Portugal - hopefully Poland can hang on


----------



## fundy (Nov 30, 2022)

Heading out and still got 10 men behind the ball, get all they deserve here Poland


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2022)

fundy said:



			Heading out and still got 10 men behind the ball, get all they deserve here Poland
		
Click to expand...

Going through on yellow cards at the moment 😂


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 30, 2022)

I've gone across to the Mexico game. Lots of tension and excitement but Mexico utterly incapable of putting in a decent cross. Basic stuff. They've been in great positions timexand again


----------



## fundy (Nov 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Going through on yellow cards at the moment 😂
		
Click to expand...

Saudis just confirmed they go through, not sure how Mexico havent scored a hatful mind


----------



## fundy (Nov 30, 2022)

They get stuffed in the next round mind


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2022)

fundy said:



			They get stuffed in the next round mind
		
Click to expand...

So if we beat Senegal ,which I'm confident we will , we will most likely be playing France 

Well that's going to defo be 2 holding midfielders, 5 at the back and hope for the best!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2022)

fundy said:



			Saudis just confirmed they go through, not sure how Mexico havent scored a hatful mind
		
Click to expand...

Mexico didn’t turn up until the last game as well - Chesney was superb for Poland , play like that though again and France will stuff them.

Argentina looked a lot better and still got plenty on the bench

This was a great hit 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598050832234254369


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2022)

Mexico game was a cracker.
Long time since I saw a winning team not wasting time. For obvious reasons.
Great watch.


----------



## fundy (Nov 30, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Mexico didn’t turn up until the last game as well - Chesney was superb for Poland , play like that though again and France will stuff them.

Argentina looked a lot better and still got plenty on the bench

This was a great hit


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598050832234254369

Click to expand...


Once more than Poland (bar Szczesny) did then


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 30, 2022)

Not sure of Messi’s penalty stats,but he seems to miss quite a few for a player of his calibre.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not sure of Messi’s penalty stats,but he seems to miss quite a few for a player of his calibre.
		
Click to expand...

He seems to as many pens as free kicks Ronaldo actually hits the target with


----------



## Asian Dawn (Nov 30, 2022)

There have been more shocks at this World Cup than a Saudi Arabian police interrogation


----------



## srixon 1 (Nov 30, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Actually though, it’s not a fault of VAR here , is it?

VAR let us see what happened, and it’s the idiot referee who saw an accidental contact made by the goalie as he followed through and caught the man who had a split second before knocked the ball away( with his head), and made the decision he did😳.
Just because it happened in the pen area. It’s becoming a non contact sport, even when the contact is an accident.
Pathetic decision, ruining the game by encouraging cheating by exaggerating the effects of the contact.
Descartes must be turning in his grave.!
		
Click to expand...

But like LT said, there is a room full of VAR officials. Maybe they only look at their own area of the pitch rather than all of them looking at the same incident. Whatever it is it’s a joke, and as you rightly point out the players don’t help, especially when they scream like babies when they get a tap on the ankle.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Nov 30, 2022)

srixon 1 said:



			But like LT said, there is a room full of VAR officials. Maybe they only look at their own area of the pitch rather than all of them looking at the same incident. Whatever it is it’s a joke, and as you rightly point out the players don’t help, especially when they scream like babies when they get a tap on the ankle.
		
Click to expand...

yes, but at the final analysis, you and I and all the TV audience were seeing what the referee went to watch .
several times it was run through, and it seems only the referee decided that what we saw was a penalty !
His decision alone. Down to him.
unbelievable what are considered the rules now!


----------



## srixon 1 (Nov 30, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			yes, but at the final analysis, you and I and all the TV audience were seeing what the referee went to watch .
several times it was run through, and it seems only the referee decided that what we saw was a penalty !
His decision alone. Down to him.
unbelievable what are considered the rules now!
		
Click to expand...

I could be wrong, but so far, I think only one ref has had the balls to stick with his original decision after being summoned to the monitor.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2022)

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/foot...kCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

This guy gets it


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 1, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/foot...kCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

This guy gets it
		
Click to expand...

He does and there’s no doubting that he waxes lyrical about a quality player but to suggest he protects the centre half’s on his own is laughable esp when Henderson is also doing that. And like I said the other day. His job is to break up, yet it is mentioned he also made the odd foray forward. He has to, with two defensive midfielders it is leaving a lot for Bellingham to do. I don’t know of one prem team that plays two defensive midfielders. I would be happier with one defensive midfielder, ( and it would be Rice) with two players who can create to get the front three really attacking..


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 1, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			He does and there’s no doubting that he waxes lyrical about a quality player but to suggest he protects the centre half’s on his own is laughable esp when Henderson is also doing that. And like I said the other day. His job is to break up, yet it is mentioned he also made the odd foray forward. He has to, with two defensive midfielders it is leaving a lot for Bellingham to do. I don’t know of one prem team that plays two defensive midfielders. I would be happier with one defensive midfielder, ( and it would be Rice) with two players who can create to get the front three really attacking..
		
Click to expand...


For me that would be rice holding, Bellingham box to box and foden attacking with saka and rashford either wing


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 1, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			For me that would be rice holding, Bellingham box to box and foden attacking with saka and rashford either wing
		
Click to expand...

We have Gareth Southgate as our manager, we aren't playing Foden at 10 - unfortunately


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			We have Gareth Southgate as our manager, we aren't playing Foden at 10 - unfortunately 

Click to expand...

It's a pity. Even if you ignore his obvious quality as a footballer, he has won 4 Premier Leagues, 1 FA Cup and 4 EFL Cups. Not bad at the age of 22 so, he even ticks the box for those that like to see decorated footballers in the side (if that is a reason Southgate looks at when picking sides). Perhaps he just doesn't shout at his team mates enough? Once he learns that skill, maybe everyone will then consider him as a definite starter for England, including Southgate


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 1, 2022)

On a slight tangent, can you imagine Henderson shouting at you for 90 minutes with that horrible Maccem accent 🤣


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It's a pity. Even if you ignore his obvious quality as a footballer, he has won 4 Premier Leagues, 1 FA Cup and 4 EFL Cups. Not bad at the age of 22 so, he even ticks the box for those that like to see decorated footballers in the side (if that is a reason Southgate looks at when picking sides). Perhaps he just doesn't shout at his team mates enough? Once he learns that skill, maybe everyone will then consider him as a definite starter for England, including Southgate 

Click to expand...

You know, that's probably it mate - although I don't think the 10 needs to be a loudmouth, should let his football do the talking for him. 

I think were going to see:

Pickford
Walker, Stones, Maguire, Shaw
Rice, Hendo, Bellingham
Rashford Kane Saka


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			On a slight tangent, can you imagine Henderson shouting at you for 90 minutes with that horrible Maccem accent 🤣
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, I'd be too busy trying to chase his over-hit pass to worry what he was saying


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			You know, that's probably it mate - although I don't think the 10 needs to be a loudmouth, should let his football do the talking for him.

I think were going to see:

Pickford
Walker, Stones, Maguire, Shaw
Rice, Hendo, Bellingham
Rashford Kane Saka
		
Click to expand...

Agree with that team, except that I still feel he will pick Sterling over Rashford. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Mount in for Henderson. I think he sees Henderson as an impact player...

Basically, I feel he will start with the same first 11 he started the tournament with.


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Agree with that team, except that I still feel he will pick Sterling over Rashford. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Mount in for Henderson. I think he sees Henderson as an impact player...

Basically, I feel he will start with the same first 11 he started the tournament with.
		
Click to expand...

I just don't think we should ignore Rashfords form at the moment, its a hopeful pick on my behalf but one I really hope is made. 

Mount gave us nothing for 2 games - a bit like Foden in the euros, I do think he gets dropped for Hendo's experience but I have no issue with Mount's ability if picked!


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 1, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			You know, that's probably it mate - although I don't think the 10 needs to be a loudmouth, should let his football do the talking for him.

I think were going to see:

Pickford
Walker, Stones, Maguire, Shaw
Rice, Hendo, Bellingham
Rashford Kane Saka
		
Click to expand...

im going to move on from my henderson problem, we all know my views so looking at that team id change 1 player and thats walker

yes we all want foden but saka and rashford you cant argue

walker A doesnt look fully fit and B tripper is the most inform right back in league / a beast on set pieces .. we will need him for all the fouls saka will win


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			To be fair, I'd be too busy trying to chase his over-hit pass to worry what he was saying 

Click to expand...

Brutal 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 1, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			im going to move on from my henderson problem, we all know my views so looking at that team id change 1 player and thats walker

yes we all want foden but saka and rashford you cant argue

walker A doesnt look fully fit and B tripper is the most inform right back in league / a beast on set pieces .. we will need him for all the fouls saka will win
		
Click to expand...

Trips is a good player, Walker is better - I'd prefer to start walker and bring him off rather than the other way around.

Senegal have a lot of pace on the wings, that's made for Walker and not Trippier.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 1, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Trips is a good player, Walker is better - I'd prefer to start walker and bring him off rather than the other way around.

Senegal have a lot of pace on the wings, that's made for Walker and not Trippier.
		
Click to expand...

normally yes id agree but walker looked a bit off last game. He is returning from injury

I think trippier is the better option


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 1, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			normally yes id agree but walker looked a bit off last game. He is returning from injury

I think trippier is the better option
		
Click to expand...

See I think Walker looked great while he was on  


Agree to disagree and move on..


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 1, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			See I think Walker looked great while he was on 


Agree to disagree and move on..
		
Click to expand...

prob best im known for labouring a point.


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 1, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			prob best im known for labouring a point.
		
Click to expand...

You never are


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			To be fair, I'd be too busy trying to chase his over-hit pass to worry what he was saying 

Click to expand...

Fair play, that's a great line .

To shout or not to shout? Anyone who has followed Newcastle since Tripper moved there will know that he is instrumental in organising the team, defence in particular. He isn't a Hendo bellower but he has been pivotal in that captaincy role. I don't know if he doesn't feel confident enough at international level to do the same or you just don't pick it up on the tv as he isn't quite as animated as Henderson but he is more than capable of managing a team on the pitch.

I'll be amazed if Henderson starts any of the remaining games. He may be brought on to close a game but he doesn't have the legs or ability now to start a game for England. He may well be a great influence in the dressing room, training ground etc but out on the pitch he gets found out now at the highest level.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			On a slight tangent, can you imagine Henderson shouting at you for 90 minutes with that horrible Maccem accent 🤣
		
Click to expand...

You don't have to imagine it, you can even hear him on the bloody TV coverage.


----------



## CountLippe (Dec 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fair play, that's a great line .



I'll be amazed if Henderson starts any of the remaining games. He may be brought on to close a game but he doesn't have the legs or ability now to start a game for England. He may well be a great influence in the dressing room, training ground etc but out on the pitch he gets found out now at the *highest level.*

Click to expand...

Is the world cup the highest level though?  I doubt we'll see a game which matches a City Liverpool pre season friendly, never mind knockout Champions league / big premier league clashes.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2022)

CountLippe said:



			Is the world cup the highest level though?  I doubt we'll see a game which matches a City Liverpool pre season friendly, never mind knockout Champions league / big premier league clashes.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed with this. The very best club sides can effectively assemble squads full of the world's leading talent. International sides are limited to the players born within their nation (or at least their parents / grand parents in some cases). Players like Haaland, Salah, etc miss out entirely on the World Cup, but would undoubtedly be there if teams were being put together at the highest level. And, on another note, club sides train together day in, day out so they should technically be able to work better as a team when they get it right. Bit more difficult for international sides, when players from all over the place suddenly get together and have different team mates and a different manager.

I'd imagine if Man City or Liverpool were to play against Brazil, Argentina or France 100 times, City or Liverpool would win more than they lose.

So, I wouldn't have though the World Cup is football at the highest level, in a footballing sense. But, it is probably the most prestigious event, and obviously generates the extra national pride amongst fans, that you don't really get at club level. Maybe the World Cup is more comparable to the Ryder Cup in golf. Golf at the highest level would be at the Majors, but the Ryder Cup is on another level in terms of fan engagement, or at least offers a very different fan experience.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2022)

CountLippe said:



			Is the world cup the highest level though?  I doubt we'll see a game which matches a City Liverpool pre season friendly, never mind knockout Champions league / big premier league clashes.
		
Click to expand...

I get your point but he may be facing top midfielders still, even if the rest of the team is not great. I don't think Klopp starts him for the key games now does he, if all players are fit? He has a role but he is not 1st on the team sheet.


----------



## CountLippe (Dec 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I get your point but he may be facing top midfielders still, even if the rest of the team is not great. I don't think Klopp starts him for the key games now does he, if all players are fit? He has a role but he is not 1st on the team sheet.
		
Click to expand...

I wasn't specifically referring to henderson in this instance, simply the constant reference, mainly by the pundits that this is the highest level.  Its simply not.   As swango pointed out, it might be the most important/prestigious for the average football fan but the quality isn't there.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2022)

CountLippe said:



			I wasn't specifically referring to henderson in this instance, simply the constant reference, mainly by the pundits that this is the highest level.  Its simply not.   As swango pointed out, it might be the most important/prestigious for the average football fan but the quality isn't there.
		
Click to expand...

Ah, yes. I'd agree with you


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 1, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			You know, that's probably it mate - although I don't think the 10 needs to be a loudmouth, should let his football do the talking for him.

I think were going to see:

Pickford
Walker, Stones, Maguire, Shaw
Rice, Hendo, Bellingham
Rashford Kane Saka
		
Click to expand...

I've got a feeling that Southgate is going to revert to type and the line up will be 5-2-3/5-4-1, something like......

Pickford
Trippier, Walker, Stones, Maguire, Shaw
Rice, Phillips/Henderson
Sterling/Saka, Kane, Mount/Rashford

Set up not to lose rather than to try to win. Keep a clean sheet and hope to nick a goal from somewhere.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I've got a feeling that Southgate is going to revert to type and the line up will be 5-2-3/5-4-1, something like......

Pickford
Trippier, Walker, Stones, Maguire, Shaw
Rice, Phillips/Henderson
Sterling/Saka, Kane, Mount/Rashford

Set up not to lose rather than to try to win. Keep a clean sheet and hope to nick a goal from somewhere.
		
Click to expand...

Are you sure he is not going to go out and try and overwhelm the opposition, with the attitude "we don't care how many you will score, we will score more"?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I get your point but he may be facing top midfielders still, even if the rest of the team is not great. *I don't think Klopp starts him for the key games now does he, if all players are fit?* He has a role but he is not 1st on the team sheet.
		
Click to expand...

When all fit he will start Henderson , Fabinho and Thiago


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I've got a feeling that Southgate is going to revert to type and the line up will be 5-2-3/5-4-1, something like......

Pickford
Trippier, Walker, Stones, Maguire, Shaw
Rice, Phillips/Henderson
Sterling/Saka, Kane, Mount/Rashford

Set up not to lose rather than to try to win. Keep a clean sheet and hope to nick a goal from somewhere.
		
Click to expand...

I feel like that is the line-up against France if we get through. I feel like the Senegal game line-up will be pretty close to the one against Wales. Trippier may come back in, and maybe Saka back in for Foden. 

Senegal:
Pickers
Trips, Maguire, Stones, Shaw
Rice, Hendo
Saka, Bellingham, Rashford
Kane

France:
Pickers
Trips, Walker, Maguire, Stones, Shaw
Rice, Hendo
Saka, Rashford/Sterling
Kane

Just my prediction anyway.


----------



## SteveW86 (Dec 1, 2022)

CountLippe said:



			Is the world cup the highest level though?  I doubt we'll see a game which matches a City Liverpool pre season friendly, never mind knockout Champions league / big premier league clashes.
		
Click to expand...


Depends how you interpret the highest level. I'd say the world cup is the highest level and probably the trophy you would want if you could only choose one. However, I would say that the Elite clubs play a higher level of football than the international teams.


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2022)

Why are so many pundits happy for Belgium to "stay in the game until the last 20 mins" lol. Theyre ranked 2nd in the world and on their way out if they dont win


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 1, 2022)

Great to see Morocco in the league 

Always good to see a hammer defender acids the first own goal of the tournament aha 

Good game thus far


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 1, 2022)

Lukaku misses the sitter of the tournament


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 1, 2022)

Thank goodness Lukaku isn't English


----------



## Dando (Dec 1, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Thank goodness Lukaku isn't English 

Click to expand...

he couldn't finish his dinner


----------



## Imurg (Dec 1, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Lukaku misses the sitter of the tournament
		
Click to expand...

What a donkey.....


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 1, 2022)

Dando said:



			he couldn't finish his dinner
		
Click to expand...

He's a dog's dinner that's a fact!


----------



## Dando (Dec 1, 2022)

Imurg said:



			What a donkey.....

Click to expand...

thats harsh.....on donkeys


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 1, 2022)




----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2022)

That has to be Martinez on the job market. Belgium just haven't been at it this tournament.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 1, 2022)

On a bright note - Kevin should be well rested for the re-start of the season!


----------



## Piece (Dec 1, 2022)

End of Martinez.

Lukaku


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2022)

Gvardiol looks some player for a 20 year old centre half, all but a whimper from Belgium

Fair play to Morocco for winning that group


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That has to be Martinez on the job market. Belgium just haven't been at it this tournament.
		
Click to expand...

Apparently KDB Stated the Belgium team is to old. It was an honest assessment. The Belgium press has turned on him in droves.
Looking at that performance esp Lukaku, he has not said a lot that is wrong.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2022)

I'd like to apologise to all Belgians. I went big on Belgium for my fantasy team. Clearly that put the kibosh on them. Sorry 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## Imurg (Dec 1, 2022)

For someone whose main purpose in the game is to stick the ball in the net..Lukaku managed to spectacularly fail..he shouldn't get paid today.


----------



## Dando (Dec 1, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Lukaku misses the sitter of the tournament
		
Click to expand...

he'll probably miss the plane home


----------



## Dando (Dec 1, 2022)

not sure if Lukaku's "highlights" should be on the horror or comedy channel


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Apparently KDB Stated the Belgium team is to old. It was an honest assessment. The Belgium press has turned on him in droves.
Looking at that performance esp Lukaku, he has not said a lot that is wrong.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think the team psychologist would approve of his comment though. Negative thoughts.........

Lukaku has apparently played 30 minutes of football since August. He wasn't fit, was only put on out of desperation. It's harsh for him to be the fall guy here.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't think the team psychologist would approve of his comment though. Negative thoughts.........

Lukaku has apparently played 30 minutes of football since August. He wasn't fit, was only put on out of desperation. It's harsh for him to be the fall guy here.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah but it's Belgium.....


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Agree with that team, except that I still feel he will pick Sterling over Rashford. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Mount in for Henderson. I think he sees Henderson as an impact player...

Basically, I feel he will start with the same first 11 he started the tournament with.
		
Click to expand...

I would agree.
I think GS thinks that’s his strongest team.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 1, 2022)

Imurg said:



			For someone whose main purpose in the game is to stick the ball in the net..Lukaku managed to spectacularly fail..he shouldn't get paid today.
		
Click to expand...

It's a classic case of don't go back 

His career was a number of steady slow moves upwards, did well on loan at West Bromwich, fantastic at Everton, good numbers at United but not suited to them too much 

Inter was a good move , returning to chelsea to prove himself wasnt


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 1, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Thank goodness Lukaku isn't English 

Click to expand...

Same amount of goals as Kane😀


----------



## CountLippe (Dec 1, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Depends how you interpret the highest level. I'd say the world cup is the highest level and probably the trophy you would want if you could only choose one. However, I would say that the Elite clubs play a higher level of football than the international teams.
		
Click to expand...

I suppose thats an alternative interpretation of highest level!! 

I think its unfortunate that many of best players in the world don't take part in the world cup due to where they were born (Haaland / Salah) or simply not in favour by their manager (Ederson and Alexander Arnold).  Given the importance of managers in the modern game its also unfortunate we seldom get to see the elite coaches go head to head.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I get your point but he may be facing top midfielders still, even if the rest of the team is not great. I don't think Klopp starts him for the key games now does he, if all players are fit? He has a role but he is not 1st on the team sheet.
		
Click to expand...

Think the thing with Hendo is some like him some don’t.
He’s not a starter for England imo, but he’s there to do a job.
It will be his last one but the manager picks him for a reason and when he’s played he’s done no better or worse than the rest of the team.
He’s vocal yes but sometimes lazy players need someone in their ear.
World beater no but still a very good footballer.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Are you sure he is not going to go out and try and overwhelm the opposition, with the attitude "we don't care how many you will score, we will score more"? 

Click to expand...

If only!


----------



## PieMan (Dec 1, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Inter was a good move , returning to chelsea to prove himself wasnt
		
Click to expand...

Wasn't helped by Tuchel not playing a system that suited Lukaku.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Apparently KDB Stated the Belgium team is to old. It was an honest assessment. The Belgium press has turned on him in droves.
Looking at that performance esp Lukaku, he has not said a lot that is wrong.
		
Click to expand...

He should have waited until after the tournament very silly comment imo.
Even if he is right.!


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 1, 2022)

I'm surprised at Kevin making such a comment but have noticed in more recent times he really shows frustration with his teammates - for City and Belgium - not sure that's ever going to prove conducive to them improving.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			I'm surprised at Kevin making such a comment but have noticed in more recent times he really shows frustration with his teammates - for City and Belgium - not sure that's ever going to prove conducive to them improving.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I love watching KDB what a footballer.
But he’s been very average the last few games I have seen. ( diving as well)
Maybe it’s getting to him putting up with Martinez.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 1, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I love watching KDB what a footballer.
But he’s been very average the last few games I have seen. ( diving as well)
Maybe it’s getting to him putting up with Martinez.
		
Click to expand...

I think the problem with KDB, he has seen what is happening in training as well as the games. He has always been honest. remember when he won MOTM and said “ I got it because of my name”. That’s him to a tee. Unfortunately his assessment seemed correct although maybe Ill timed. 
On a positive for Belgium they won’t have to put up with Martinez any longer.


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 1, 2022)

Luka Modric take a bow. The class and passing abilty he displays at 37 is a joy to watch. What a player.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2022)

Was just listening to Talksport, and Dean Saunders was spending 5 or so minutes talking about Canada. How they were attacking so well, but in desperate need of a striker. He was discussing all the skills of a striker, how you can't teach the instinct, etc. He ended it by saying "just imagine if Canada had a Lukaku". I nearly crashed my car laughing


----------



## Imurg (Dec 1, 2022)

Martinez gone already...


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 1, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Luka Modric take a bow. The class and passing abilty he displays at 37 is a joy to watch. What a player.
		
Click to expand...

He was the centre of everything, but the movement off the ball by most of the team was exceptional.


----------



## Dando (Dec 1, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Martinez gone already...
		
Click to expand...

Big Sam is waiting for the call


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 1, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Luka Modric take a bow. The class and passing abilty he displays at 37 is a joy to watch. What a player.
		
Click to expand...

Reminds me of pirlo


----------



## sunshine (Dec 1, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Martinez gone already...
		
Click to expand...

I'd settle for him at QPR. More his level.


----------



## yandabrown (Dec 1, 2022)

It's John Hartson on commentary in the Germany  Costa Rica game. I'm wondering if it's not really him but Rhod Gilbert doing it as a joke.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2022)

On a minor point, whilst France is my favourite kit this tournament the Costa Rica one comes second. Not for much longer but it gets an honorary mention.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2022)

yandabrown said:



			It's John Hartson on commentary in the Germany  Costa Rica game. I'm wondering if it's not really him but Rhod Gilbert doing it as a joke.
		
Click to expand...

Rob Brydon did a full Ken Bruce show in character as Ken Bruce once so you could be right 😄


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2022)

Some hit from Japan that, makes it interesting

edit: keepers had a shocker lol


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2022)

so close to taking the lead


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2022)

that close they have lol


----------



## GreiginFife (Dec 1, 2022)

Ball was clearly out and VAR took that long to get it wrong. Shambles of a system


----------



## srixon 1 (Dec 1, 2022)

VAR must be looking at something else. Looked out to me. Come on Japan.


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			Ball was clearly out and VAR took that long to get it wrong. Shambles of a system
		
Click to expand...


the tv pics where it looks out is from an odd angle i think, theyll have decided on the pic from directly above youd hope


----------



## GreiginFife (Dec 1, 2022)

fundy said:



			the tv pics where it looks out is from an odd angle i think, theyll have decided on the pic from directly above youd hope
		
Click to expand...

Game has lost it.


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2022)

lol now costa rica have scored too


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			Game has lost it.
		
Click to expand...

would def help if they showed the pic theyve made the decision off....


----------



## Slime (Dec 1, 2022)

Good VAR decision, I didn't think the ball was out.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 1, 2022)

Do I see this right..if Japan and Costa Rica win the both Spain and Germany are out..?


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Do I see this right..if Japan and Costa Rica win the both Spain and Germany are out..?
		
Click to expand...

yep


----------



## Imurg (Dec 1, 2022)

Then that will confirm, ironically,  that the World Cup is drunk..


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2022)

You can see why they want to change the format for 2026, not enough drama in these last group games haha


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Then that will confirm, ironically,  that the World Cup is drunk..

Click to expand...


certainly tipsy now!!!


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Do I see this right..if Japan and Costa Rica win the both Spain and Germany are out..?
		
Click to expand...

Yeah. And I will have won £460 from a £2 bet. My £2 World Cup bets have so far added up to an expense of £40, and winnings of £343.42


----------



## Imurg (Dec 1, 2022)

fundy said:



			certainly tipsy now!!!
		
Click to expand...

Pulling a pint now.....


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Pulling a pint now.....
		
Click to expand...

Sober up......


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2022)

fundy said:



			would def help if they showed the pic theyve made the decision off....
		
Click to expand...


live footage 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598409483725803520


----------



## Imurg (Dec 1, 2022)

Boo......


----------



## 3offTheTee (Dec 1, 2022)

Oh not now


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 1, 2022)

This WC is crazy.
England never looked like not progressing 🤷‍♂️
Southgate knows 😊


----------



## 3offTheTee (Dec 1, 2022)

Mrs 3OTT just made me laugh. She said if Spain scores now would Japan be out as Japan has had “more tellings off” ( yellow cards) . She is not a big footie fan!


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 1, 2022)

This has to be one of the most entertaining world cups


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 1, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Mrs 3OTT just made me laugh. She said if Spain scores now would Japan be out as Japan has had “more tellings off” ( yellow cards) . She is not a big footie fan!
		
Click to expand...

That's what's great about the world cup tho, my cousin for example she not into football at all but she always watching as much of the world cup as she can , really gets into it


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Mrs 3OTT just made me laugh. She said if Spain scores now would Japan be out as Japan has had “more tellings off” ( yellow cards) . She is not a big footie fan!
		
Click to expand...

That could be 10 mins in the sin bin an orange “telling off card”
She’s a genius.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 1, 2022)

Germany...again...mustn't laugh..............


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2022)

Fantastic from Japan.
Made Spain look very ordinary second half.


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2022)

How on earth do you beat Spain and Germany yet lose to Costa Rica


----------



## Slime (Dec 1, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Fantastic from Japan.
Made Spain look very ordinary second half.
		
Click to expand...

They've beaten both Germany and Spain ........................... how far could they go?


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 1, 2022)

Ilkay also well rested now for the season resumption


----------



## Slime (Dec 1, 2022)

I can't remember the last time I saw so many happy tears, I'm so chuffed for the Japanese.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2022)

Slime said:



			They've beaten both Germany and Spain ........................... how far could they go?
		
Click to expand...

From what I have seen.
They are as good as anyone else.
So why not a win??


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 1, 2022)

Slime said:



			I can't remember the last time I saw so many happy tears, I'm so chuffed for the Japanese.
		
Click to expand...

Gotta love the passion - almost an innocence to it. Lovely.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 1, 2022)

The Japanese are going to go absolutely mental in that stadium tonight. It will never look cleaner when they're done with it


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 1, 2022)

Gutted to see Germany go out like that 😂😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 1, 2022)

Do we think the German's are going to call foul and suggest collusion??!!


----------



## Slime (Dec 1, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Do we think the German's are going to call foul and suggest collusion??!!
		
Click to expand...

Graham Souness is pretty much doing that already!


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 1, 2022)

Slime said:



			Graham Souness is pretty much doing that already!
		
Click to expand...

Neville doesn't care because it's Germany - I agree with him for once


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Do we think the German's are going to call foul and suggest collusion??!!
		
Click to expand...

Well they did post that photo of them with hands over their mouths.
They will have them off now moaning.!
FIFA 1 Germany 0


----------



## spongebob59 (Dec 1, 2022)

Can I now use the arguement that the curvature of the ball means my putt went in 😂


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2022)

Slime said:



			Graham Souness is pretty much doing that already!
		
Click to expand...

CGI takes time ,they will show the photo as soon as they have sorted it.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Neville doesn't care because it's Germany - I agree with him for once 

Click to expand...

Yes remember Lampard no goal.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 1, 2022)

Souness needs putting out to pasture.


----------



## larmen (Dec 1, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes remember Lampard no goal.
		
Click to expand...

just because you got away with it with Hurst doesn't mean Lampart gets a dodgy goal as well ;-)


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 1, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes remember Lampard no goal.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah but was that over the line 😳🤔😂😂😂😂


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 1, 2022)

Still in play


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 1, 2022)

I don’t care about any pictures.
Definitely in play for me 😆


----------



## Piece (Dec 1, 2022)

Had to miss the second half due to kids football training  🤐😭


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Still in play

View attachment 45411

Click to expand...

Yes good decision.
VAR actually doing it’s job.
Pity it took forever.


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 1, 2022)

Theres not an outstanding team in this tournament. Even France are nothing special apart from Mbappe. Their midfield is weak without Pogba/Kante and easy to bypass.

Germany paid the price for poor finishing in the first two games really. If Musiala could finish they'd be top of the group with about 12 goals. Spain are a decent side but nothing at the back and I wouldn't worry about a side that has Morata up top.

If we get things and make the most of our quality in midfield and attack I firmly believe we can win it. I also believe if we play like we did against the USA or the first half against Wales we'll probably go out on penalties on Sunday


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Theres not an outstanding team in this tournament. Even France are nothing special apart from Mbappe. Their midfield is weak without Pogba/Kante and easy to bypass.

Germany paid the price for poor finishing in the first two games really. If Musiala could finish they'd be top of the group with about 12 goals. Spain are a decent side but nothing at the back and I wouldn't worry about a side that has Morata up top.

If we get things and make the most of our quality in midfield and attack I firmly believe we can win it. I also believe if we play like we did against the USA or the first half against Wales we'll probably go out on penalties on Sunday 

Click to expand...

I put a few quid on Portugal at 14/1 before they'd played a game (but Argentina and Germany had already lost their first games), I reckon they've got as good a chance as anyone. As you say there is no stand-out team at all.


----------



## BrianM (Dec 2, 2022)

It's absolutely wide open, still Brazil for me, but even they look vulnerable at times.
Any team on their day can beat each other.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 2, 2022)

I see Lukaku hit the subs bench with his fist after the game. He was due to get one on target eventually.


----------



## larmen (Dec 2, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Germany paid the price for poor finishing in the first two games really. If Musiala could finish they'd be top of the group with about 12 goals. Spain are a decent side but nothing at the back and I wouldn't worry about a side that has Morata up top.
		
Click to expand...

I don't watch many football games except my team Werder and Germany. I don't understand why Musiala is so hyped. 'He wins so many dribbles', ... . But they don't lead to anywhere. Great if you can get past 3 guys, but if the 4th one stopped you then the 1st one might have as well, no goal either way.
But I was much more disappointed with Muller. I don't know what the plan was. Against Spain he was always in an offside position and couldn't be passed the ball, not quite as bad this time.
But it's not the goals that cost us, this time it was the defence.


----------



## Asian Dawn (Dec 2, 2022)

New Japanese flag


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 2, 2022)

larmen said:



			I don't watch many football games except my team Werder and Germany. I don't understand why Musiala is so hyped. 'He wins so many dribbles', ... . But they don't lead to anywhere. Great if you can get past 3 guys, but if the 4th one stopped you then the 1st one might have as well, no goal either way.
But I was much more disappointed with Muller. I don't know what the plan was. Against Spain he was always in an offside position and couldn't be passed the ball, not quite as bad this time.
But it's not the goals that cost us, this time it was the defence.
		
Click to expand...

Having warched Musiala I have to say I feel I was a bit harsh on him. He's impressed me a lot with his quality on the ball and his dribbling. I've seen him for Bayern in the CL and some big games in Germany and he looks good but it's difficult to judge from that as Bayern are so far ahead of most sides. He looks seriously impressive for 19 but as you say, no good beating 3 players if you tackled by a 4th or if you blaze a shot over. Or miss simple one on ones. He's going to be some player when he matures and adds finishing. I actually forgot Muller was playing last night!

Do you think it's a been a case of Flick trying to cram in too many attacking players that's cost you? It might sound crazy but I think Germany have looked better than England in the 3 games based on overall performances and quality of football. The XG shows that too.


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 2, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I put a few quid on Portugal at 14/1 before they'd played a game (but Argentina and Germany had already lost their first games), I reckon they've got as good a chance as anyone. As you say there is no stand-out team at all.
		
Click to expand...

Portugal look very solid. Keep it tight but have the quality in the final third to hurt teams. Leao is someone I've raved about for 18 months and he's going to do some damage if he gets a run in the side. I do wonder if they'd be better off without Ronaldo and playing Felix in the middle with Leao and Silva either side then Bruno behind.


----------



## larmen (Dec 2, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Having warched Musiala I have to say I feel I was a bit harsh on him. He's impressed me a lot with his quality on the ball and his dribbling. I've seen him for Bayern in the CL and some big games in Germany and he looks good but it's difficult to judge from that as Bayern are so far ahead of most sides. He looks seriously impressive for 19 but as you say, no good beating 3 players if you tackled by a 4th or if you blaze a shot over. Or miss simple one on ones. He's going to be some player when he matures and adds finishing. I actually forgot Muller was playing last night!
		
Click to expand...

It reminded me of the time when Sven (?) tried to play Gerrard and Lampard together. Both great, but often in each other's way.
I like Kimmich, Goretzka and Gundogan, but also not all at the same time. Gnabri or Mueller, but not both. And of course I like Fullkrug, but realistically he isn't a mega star, like Havarts is/can become.

But I don't know much about our defensive alternatives. There is a reason that Bayern doesn't have a German defender. If we would have a good one they would try and get him. Rudiger is my favourite, but he did a couple of big howlers, so did Sule. No idea who our wingbacks are, wouldn't recognise either of them on the street.
I think in 2014 Boateng won us the cup. Not the 7-1 against Brazil, Boateng could have kept Argentina from scoring for a week.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 2, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Having warched Musiala I have to say I feel I was a bit harsh on him. He's impressed me a lot with his quality on the ball and his dribbling. I've seen him for Bayern in the CL and some big games in Germany and he looks good but it's difficult to judge from that as Bayern are so far ahead of most sides. He looks seriously impressive for 19 but as you say, no good beating 3 players if you tackled by a 4th or if you blaze a shot over. Or miss simple one on ones. He's going to be some player when he matures and adds finishing. I actually forgot Muller was playing last night!

Do you think it's a been a case of Flick trying to cram in too many attacking players that's cost you? It might sound crazy but I think Germany have looked better than England in the 3 games based on overall performances and quality of football. The XG shows that too.
		
Click to expand...

Having a quick peruse on the BBC and by all accounts the media in Germany are savaging the Germany team. Genuinely interested in what has gone wrong there but does it help having the Bundesliga dominated by one team.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 2, 2022)

Is Ronaldo claiming an assist there??


----------



## fundy (Dec 2, 2022)

Turns out you can stamp on a guys stomach and VAR wont even bother looking at it lol


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 2, 2022)

I think this World Cup has seen the absolute worst use of VAR imaginable.

There have been many times that VAR has intervened when there seemed to be absolutely no reason for it to do so. They've also been very reluctant to give fans any confirmation on how a decision has been made, or tardy in giving this information over.

Then, in Uruguay match today, the replay seems to show the Uruguay player stamping on the Ghana players stomach. Yet, there is absolutely no sign that VAR is even bothering to look at that to see if it is worth a review.


----------



## fundy (Dec 2, 2022)

Not sure why but think they seem desperate to keep 11 v 11 at all times, definitely been little encouragement to look at potential red card events. Was only very reluctantly they sent Hennessy off.....

That said a lot of the ridiculous play acting doesnt help the players causes


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 2, 2022)

Guys in the VAR studio had another dodgy moment.

Challenge on Nunez by Ghana player. Referee says the Ghana player won the ball, and replays showed that he did win the ball. Didn't stop VAR asking the referee to go to the monitor, ask they presumably felt he missed something.

Congratulations to the referee though. He watched the replay, and decided he was right the first time.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 2, 2022)

Uruguay are a disgrace

Going at the ref at full time 

It won't change anything. Pathetic


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 2, 2022)

Uruguay, classy as ever at the end. Bye, leave now.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 2, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Uruguay are a disgrace

Going at the ref at full time

It won't change anything. Pathetic
		
Click to expand...

Awful team. Will be happy never to see Suarez on my TV again.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 2, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Uruguay are a disgrace

Going at the ref at full time

It won't change anything. Pathetic
		
Click to expand...

The referee bottled a bit. I don't blame him 100%, could have been pretty intimidating. But, I was really hoping he'd flash the red card at one or 2 of them.

Was tense watching the last 10 mins or so. Most of injury time was footage of Suarez crying, which was quite enjoyable to be honest  . Fair play to South Korea, great run by the chap who scored the winner, and well spotted by Son


----------



## Dando (Dec 2, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Awful team. Will be happy never to see Suarez on my TV again.
		
Click to expand...

Don’t want you to get withdrawal symptoms


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 2, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598724741245947905
😂😂
Bye bye scum bag 👋


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 2, 2022)

Germany out yesterday and now Ghana having a hand in knocking Uruguay out with Suarez in tears....what a sight to behold 

Seeing Uruguay go out was the highlight of the World Cup, a horrible bunch of rats. The international version of Atletico Madrid. Hopefully FIFA look at the footbage at the end and give half their side lengthy bans.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 2, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Germany out yesterday and now Ghana having a hand in knocking Uruguay out with Suarez in tears....what a sight to behold 

Seeing Uruguay go out was the highlight of the World Cup, a horrible bunch of rats. The international version of Atletico Madrid. Hopefully FIFA look at the footbage at the end and give half their side lengthy bans.
		
Click to expand...

I wouldn't hold out much hope on FIFA doing that, with their moral compass


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 2, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Germany out yesterday and now Ghana having a hand in knocking Uruguay out with Suarez in tears....what a sight to behold 

Seeing Uruguay go out was the highlight of the World Cup, a horrible bunch of rats. *The international version of Atletico Madrid. *Hopefully FIFA look at the footbage at the end and give half their side lengthy bans.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on 👍🏻


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2022)

Another mental finish to a group - shame Ghana couldn’t have gone through instead of Portugal - would have a been full blown karma for Ghana

bonus is Nunez coming back early


----------



## Piece (Dec 2, 2022)

Loved seeing Uruguay being binned. Fantastic. Cavani trying a Vardy-style penalty trick - ref didn't buy it


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Another mental finish to a group - shame Ghana couldn’t have gone through instead of Portugal - would have a been full blown karma for Ghana

*bonus is Nunez coming back early*

Click to expand...

Had a bit of a stinker hasn’t he?😬


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 2, 2022)

I did say a few days ago I see an underdog in the final this year. Not seen owt yet to change my mind. Made my day seeing Suarez crying his eyes out.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 2, 2022)

Is Suarez the most disliked footballer ever?🤔
Bit 3 opposition players & racially abused another.
He’s got to be up there.


----------



## larmen (Dec 2, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Is Suarez the most disliked footballer ever?🤔
Bit 3 opposition players & racially abused another.
He’s got to be up there.
		
Click to expand...

Pepe for me. Shame he is still in it.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 2, 2022)

I don't think Sergio Ramos can quite beat Suarez and Pepe but if you are putting together a team then he has to be in it.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 2, 2022)

larmen said:



			Pepe for me. Shame he is still in it.
		
Click to expand...

Bit 3 players tho.
Just think about that 🤯😂


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2022)

larmen said:



			Pepe for me. Shame he is still in it.
		
Click to expand...

Would add Ramos and also an English candidate in Terry


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 2, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't think Sergio Ramos can quite beat Suarez and Pepe but if you are putting together a team then he has to be in it.
		
Click to expand...

I quite like Ramos 😊


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 2, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			I quite like Ramos 😊
		
Click to expand...

😳

I'll add Dennis Wise and Craig Bellamy to the squad.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 2, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would add Ramos and also an English candidate in Terry
		
Click to expand...

John Terry?
On a football field compared to the above,you certainly need to explain your reasoning.


----------



## larmen (Dec 2, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Bit 3 players tho.
Just think about that 🤯😂
		
Click to expand...

Go on YouTube and find Pepe kicking Casqueros (or similar).


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 2, 2022)

larmen said:



			Go on YouTube and find Pepe kicking Casqueros (or similar).
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I’ve seen it.
But biting,what goes through your head to bite an opposition player?


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 2, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yeah I’ve seen it.
But biting,what goes through your head to bite an opposition player?
		
Click to expand...

Their shoulder by the looks of it


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 2, 2022)

Listened to Trippier on the Under the cosh podcast recently,he couldn’t speak high enough of Simone.
Which surprised me,because he’s got to be up there 😂.

If any of you aren’t familiar with “under the cosh” podcast I’d definitely recommend,some cracking story’s from some of the older players.


----------



## fundy (Dec 2, 2022)

Pray for Mitrovic, just been shot from the stands the poor lad lol


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 2, 2022)

Serbia's bench doing a Uruguay


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 2, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			😳

I'll add Dennis Wise and Craig Bellamy to the squad.
		
Click to expand...

I'll throw Sergio Busquets into the mix.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 2, 2022)

Diouf. Diego Costa.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Diouf. Diego Costa.
		
Click to expand...

Costa loves it 😂😂
Proper 💩house


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 2, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Is Suarez the most disliked footballer ever?🤔
Bit 3 opposition players & racially abused another.
He’s got to be up there.
		
Click to expand...

Yes he was horrible!
But a fantastic footballer.
Rather have him in my team than playing against him in his prime.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 2, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Their shoulder by the looks of it
		
Click to expand...

Yes shocking use of the shoulder on his teeth.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 2, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes he was horrible!
But a fantastic footballer.
Rather have him in my team than playing against him in his prime.
		
Click to expand...

Yep awesome player,but horrible person.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 2, 2022)

Sent off after scoring.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 2, 2022)

Kicking off in the Swiz game.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 2, 2022)

Well..who'd have thought it.. 
Looking purely at the numbers nobody qualified for the last 16 better than England.
7 points and the best goal difference


----------



## fundy (Dec 2, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Well..who'd have thought it..
Looking purely at the numbers nobody qualified for the last 16 better than England.
7 points and the best goal difference
		
Click to expand...


kind of false when france and brazil had both qualified before their last game so made plenty of changes


----------



## fundy (Dec 2, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Kicking off in the Swiz game.
		
Click to expand...

sounds like Xhaka was mocking the guy whose wife cheated on him with a teammate. Classy as ever Granit lol


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 2, 2022)

Enjoyed my £2 on South Korea and Cameroon to win tonight, for £180. Takes my World Cup winnings to £520 now


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			kind of false when france and brazil had both qualified before their last game so made plenty of changes
		
Click to expand...

England had pretty much qualified after 2.
Brazil have been hit & miss,so have France.
I honestly don’t think there’s a great team in this competition.


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 2, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Listened to Trippier on the Under the cosh podcast recently,he couldn’t speak high enough of Simone.
Which surprised me,because he’s got to be up there 😂.

If any of you aren’t familiar with “under the cosh” podcast I’d definitely recommend,some cracking story’s from some of the older players.
		
Click to expand...

The one with the guy Brian Clough adopted was incredible.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Enjoyed my £2 on South Korea and Cameroon to win tonight, for £180. Takes my World Cup winnings to £520 now 

Click to expand...

Put your bets up before they come in mate 😐


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 2, 2022)

4LEX said:



			The one with the guy Brian Clough adopted was incredible.
		
Click to expand...

Not listened to that yet,
Surprisingly the Jeff winter one was good.


----------



## fundy (Dec 2, 2022)

SO if we are to win it, the most likely path is Senegal, France, Spain, Brazil.


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 2, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not listened to that yet,
Surprisingly the Jeff winter one was good.
		
Click to expand...

Listen to it. A really amazing story with a shocking end.

The Kevin Campbell one was another classic and his tales from Turkey!


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 2, 2022)

Whenever I see Antony I can't believe anyone paid more than £20m for him, let alone the £80m Man Utd paid. No pace, one dimensional, can't beat a full back or cross. He has nothing but a load of pointless tricks and the ability to curl one in off his left occasionally.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			SO if we are to win it, the most likely path is Senegal, France, Spain, Brazil.
		
Click to expand...

Easy peasy 😂


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 2, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Whenever I see Antony I can't believe anyone paid more than £20m for him, let alone the £80m Man Utd paid. No pace, one dimensional, can't beat a full back or cross. He has nothing but a load of pointless tricks and the ability to curl one in off his left occasionally.
		
Click to expand...

Him & Nunez make Haaland look a right bargain


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 2, 2022)

fundy said:



			SO if we are to win it, the most likely path is Senegal, France, Spain, Brazil.
		
Click to expand...

All have their weaknesses..


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 2, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Him & Nunez make Haaland look a right bargain
		
Click to expand...

Nunez at least has devastating pace and is a physical beast. Antony will be in Italy or France in 18 months on loan. Reminds me of Pepe at Arsenal.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 2, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			All have their weaknesses..
		
Click to expand...

Agreed.
Were probably the most balanced team.
I just think Mbappe could be the difference for France.
Wouldn’t count the Argies out either.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 2, 2022)

Brazil have been favourites all the way through this tournament. They have Fred in midfield. Would he even get into England squad? They have Richarlison up front, but he'd never keep Kane out of team at Spurs. 

Would be interesting to know how many Brazil players would make England's starting line up? Casemiro maybe, though Rice seems to hold his own. Junior, although England have dangerous wide players, no matter how much we sometimes slag them off. Probably the keeper, although Pickford hasn't really let England down yet.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 2, 2022)

4LEX said:



*Nunez at least has devastating pace and is a physical beast*. Antony will be in Italy or France in 18 months on loan. Reminds me of Pepe at Arsenal.
		
Click to expand...

Not shown it in this tournament.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 2, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Nunez at least has devastating pace and is a physical beast. Antony will be in Italy or France in 18 months on loan. Reminds me of Pepe at Arsenal.
		
Click to expand...

At least Antony has scored some critical goals in his early Utd career. Time will tell what sort of player he becomes, but I think as a Utd fan, I'd like to get behind him as much as I can in his early days at the club, rather than try and pick as many holes as I can


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 2, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Agreed.
Were probably the most balanced team.
I just think Mbappe could be the difference for France.
Wouldn’t count the Argies out either.
		
Click to expand...

It's worth mentioning that France midfield looks weak without pogba and kante 

Spain almost went out 

Argies heads go so easy 

Brazil just lost yes second string but this is Brazil 

This is going to be interesting


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Brazil have been favourites all the way through this tournament. They have Fred in midfield. Would he even get into England squad? They have Richarlison up front, but he'd never keep Kane out of team at Spurs.

Would be interesting to know how many Brazil players would make England's starting line up? Casemiro maybe, though Rice seems to hold his own. Junior, although England have dangerous wide players, no matter how much we sometimes slag them off. Probably the keeper, although Pickford hasn't really let England down yet.
		
Click to expand...

Neymar?
That’s probably about it.
They’ve got goals in them,but very dodgy at the back.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 2, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			It's worth mentioning that France midfield looks weak without pogba and kante

Spain almost went out

Argies heads go so easy

Brazil just lost yes second string but this is Brazil

This is going to be interesting
		
Click to expand...

Croatia look a well organised team to me.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 2, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Neymar?
That’s probably about it.
They’ve got goals in them,but very dodgy at the back.
		
Click to expand...

Would Neymar get in the side? Even if Southgate wasn't manager.

I know he clearly must have something about him to have the career he has had, but he just seems to be more of a youTube freestyle footballer. How would he gel within the team? Would England fans rather have Neymar than a Foden? Would they try and play them both? 

To be honest, rarely seen him have an amazing game, but I gave only seen a small proportion of his total games, so maybe I have missed something.


----------



## fundy (Dec 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Would Neymar get in the side? Even if Southgate wasn't manager.

I know he clearly must have something about him to have the career he has had, but he just seems to be more of a youTube freestyle footballer. How would he gel within the team? Would England fans rather have Neymar than a Foden? Would they try and play them both?

To be honest, rarely seen him have an amazing game, but I gave only seen a small proportion of his total games, so maybe I have missed something.
		
Click to expand...

I cant stand Neymar but he'd walk into the England side yes


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Would Neymar get in the side? Even if Southgate wasn't manager.

I know he clearly must have something about him to have the career he has had, but he just seems to be more of a youTube freestyle footballer. How would he gel within the team? Would England fans rather have Neymar than a Foden? Would they try and play them both?

To be honest, rarely seen him have an amazing game, but I gave only seen a small proportion of his total games, so maybe I have missed something.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed.
But he’s going to be Brazils all Time top scorer,so must be decent 🤷‍♂️


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Would Neymar get in the side? Even if Southgate wasn't manager.

I know he clearly must have something about him to have the career he has had, but he just seems to be more of a youTube freestyle footballer. How would he gel within the team? Would England fans rather have Neymar than a Foden? Would they try and play them both?
		
Click to expand...

We could play the Xmas tree formation, 4-3-2-1, with Foden and Neymar playing off Kane up front. Midfield of Rice, Phillips and Bellingham and the usual suspects in defence.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 2, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598734102412365836enjoy 😊


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 2, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not shown it in this tournament.
		
Click to expand...

Uruguay are at the end of a cycle, much like Belgium. Difficult to judge him on this tournament.


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			At least Antony has scored some critical goals in his early Utd career. Time will tell what sort of player he becomes, but I think as a Utd fan, I'd like to get behind him as much as I can in his early days at the club, rather than try and pick as many holes as I can 

Click to expand...

He has actually scored a few goals cutting in off the right but without pace he's going to be easy to mark out of games once teams figure him out. For the money spent you'd expect a lot more. As always time will tell.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 2, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Uruguay are at the end of a cycle, much like Belgium. Difficult to judge him on this tournament.
		
Click to expand...

agreed,but he did look pants 🤷‍♂️


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 2, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Brazil have been favourites all the way through this tournament. They have Fred in midfield. Would he even get into England squad? They have Richarlison up front, but he'd never keep Kane out of team at Spurs.

Would be interesting to know how many Brazil players would make England's starting line up? Casemiro maybe, though Rice seems to hold his own. Junior, although England have dangerous wide players, no matter how much we sometimes slag them off. Probably the keeper, although Pickford hasn't really let England down yet.
		
Click to expand...


I would say Allison and Ederson make our side quite easily.

Apart from that maybe Alex Sandro at LB, Silva at CB due to experience? Casemiro and Neymar for sure.

Brazil aren't all that though. Overplay, no threat in the air and defensively suspect.


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 3, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			agreed,but he did look pants 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

I judge him mainly on what I've seen at Liverpool and he looks a rough diamond. He's had some shockers but he's got all the raw attributes to be a top striker. Defenders don't like attackers that are quicker and bigger than them generally. It usually ends one way.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 3, 2022)

4LEX said:



			I judge him mainly on what I've seen at Liverpool and he looks a rough diamond. He's had some shockers but he's got all the raw attributes to be a top striker. Defenders don't like attackers that are quicker and bigger than them generally. It usually ends one way.
		
Click to expand...

A headbutt?


----------



## JRS7 (Dec 3, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I feel like that is the line-up against France if we get through. I feel like the Senegal game line-up will be pretty close to the one against Wales. Trippier may come back in, and maybe Saka back in for Foden.

Senegal:
Pickers
Trips, Maguire, Stones, Shaw
Rice, Hendo
Saka, Bellingham, Rashford
Kane

France:
Pickers
Trips, Walker, Maguire, Stones, Shaw
Rice, Hendo
Saka, Rashford/Sterling
Kane

Just my prediction anyway.
		
Click to expand...

P
W M S S
H R B
R K/W F


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 3, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I feel like that is the line-up against France if we get through. I feel like the Senegal game line-up will be pretty close to the one against Wales. Trippier may come back in, and maybe Saka back in for Foden. 

Senegal:
Pickers
Trips, Maguire, Stones, Shaw
Rice, Hendo
Saka, Bellingham, Rashford
Kane

France:
Pickers
Trips, Walker, Maguire, Stones, Shaw
Rice, Hendo
Saka, Rashford/Sterling
Kane

Just my prediction anyway.
		
Click to expand...

Only thing I'd twerk in the France line up if that was it and we got there would be grealish in for rashford 

That's just because of his control of the ball and his ability to win free kicks 

Could be one of them games


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 3, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Only thing I'd twerk in the France line up if that was it and we got there would be grealish in for rashford

That's just because of his control of the ball and his ability to win free kicks

Could be one of them games
		
Click to expand...

Really don't want to be thinking about you twerking. 😂


----------



## Crazyface (Dec 3, 2022)

Odd thing. Whilst watching uraguay yesterday I was willing them to win, really, but then the diving got ramped up. Omg what a bunch of cheats, and when they are as talented as they are. Glad they are out. Good riddance, and forever good riddance to swarez


----------



## JRS7 (Dec 3, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Only thing I'd twerk in the France line up if that was it and we got there would be grealish in for rashford

That's just because of his control of the ball and his ability to win free kicks

Could be one of them games
		
Click to expand...

M upfront. R.
Wrong.
What are you talking about?


----------



## JRS7 (Dec 3, 2022)

Crazyface said:



			Odd thing. Whilst watching uraguay yesterday I was willing them to win, really, but then the diving got ramped up. Omg what a bunch of cheats, and when they are as talented as they are. Glad they are out. Good riddance, and forever good riddance to swarez
		
Click to expand...

The main dive was a disgrace.


----------



## Slime (Dec 3, 2022)

JRS7 said:



			M upfront. R.
Wrong.
What are you talking about?
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, JRS7, but what does that actually mean?


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 3, 2022)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63844660

not good news for Brazil or there respective clubs ☹️


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 3, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63844660

not good news for Brazil or there respective clubs ☹️
		
Click to expand...

Not good for my fantasy football either!

Good news for west ham tho we play arsenal on boxing day


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 3, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63844660

not good news for Brazil or there respective clubs ☹️
		
Click to expand...

One thing I have noticed is how firm the pitches look.
Many have been fooled by really high bounces
These new pitches are very firm I wonder if it’s having an effect on players joints?


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 3, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't think Sergio Ramos can quite beat Suarez and Pepe but if you are putting together a team then he has to be in it.
		
Click to expand...

Well it looks as though  XI is coming along nicely......

GK -
RB - Ramos
CB - Pepe
CB - Terry
LB -
RM -
CM - Busquets
CM - Wise
LM - Bellamy
CF - Suarez
CF - Costa

Manager - Simeone


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 3, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Well it looks XI is coming along nicely......

GK -
RB - Ramos
CB - Pepe
CB - Terry
LB -
RM -
CM - Busquets
CM - Wise
LM - Bellamy
CF - Suarez
CF - Costa

Manager - Simeone
		
Click to expand...

Who was the German keeper that wiped out a French forward. Schumacher 🤔


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 3, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Who was the German keeper that wiped out a French forward. Schumacher 🤔
		
Click to expand...

Ben Thatcher at left back and shame can't get Barton in there


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 3, 2022)

Well it looks as though theXI is coming along nicely......

GK - Schumacher
RB - Ramos
CB - Pepe
CB - Terry
LB - Thatcher
RM - Barton
CM - Busquets
CM - Wise
LM - Bellamy
CF - Suarez
CF - Costa

Manager - Simeone


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 3, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Well it looks as though  XI is coming along nicely......

GK - Schumacher
RB - Ramos
CB - Pepe
CB - Terry
LB - Thatcher
RM - Barton
CM - Busquets
CM - Wise
LM - Bellamy
CF - Suarez
CF - Costa

Manager - Simeone
		
Click to expand...

Lee bowyer first sub


----------



## Slime (Dec 3, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Well it looks as though the XI is coming along nicely......

GK -
RB - Ramos
CB - Pepe
CB - Terry
LB -
RM -
CM - Busquets
CM - Wise
LM - Bellamy
CF - Suarez
CF - Costa

Manager - Simeone
		
Click to expand...

Can you find a couple of spots for Joey Barton & El Hadji Diouf?


----------



## Slime (Dec 3, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Who was the German keeper that wiped out a French forward. Schumacher 🤔
		
Click to expand...

Yup, it was him.
He took out a French guy called Battiston.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 3, 2022)

Very strange tactics from Holland - just sitting and allowing the USA the ball and bringing the pressure to them

And then they go 2 up 😂

They are very slick when they go forward and should do it more


----------



## Fade and Die (Dec 3, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Very strange tactics from Holland - just sitting and allowing the USA the ball and bringing the pressure to them
		
Click to expand...

Rope a dope?


----------



## Imurg (Dec 3, 2022)

Seems to be working


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 3, 2022)

Slime said:



			Can you find a couple of spots for Joey Barton & El Hadji Diouf?
		
Click to expand...

Shoehorned Barton into right midfield in a later post but unfortunately Diouf missed out on the starting XI. Couldn't drop Costa or Suarez for him so he'll have to start on the bench.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 3, 2022)

Slime said:



			Yup, it was him.
He took out a French guy called Battiston.







Click to expand...

should of gone to VAR 😖


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 3, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Shoehorned Barton into right midfield in a later post but unfortunately Diouf missed out on the starting XI. Couldn't drop Costa or Suarez for him so he'll have to start on the bench.
		
Click to expand...

we don’t have a football team without fans. Which teams fans are going to follow them.

At this stage am off for me popcorn 🤔😳😉😁


----------



## Imurg (Dec 3, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			we don’t have a football team without fans. Which teams fans are going to follow them.

At this stage am off for me popcorn 🤔😳😉😁
		
Click to expand...

Millwall


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 3, 2022)

Some very poor defending from the USA cost them.
Good game though.


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 3, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Some very poor defending from the USA cost them.
		
Click to expand...

They have nothing up top, zero quality. If the USA had some decent strikers they'd have been out if sight.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 3, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			we don’t have a football team without fans. Which teams fans are going to follow them.

At this stage am off for me popcorn 🤔😳😉😁
		
Click to expand...

As we're bringing back players from the past surely we can do the same with fans. Pretty much any English club from the 70's or 80's.


----------



## GreiginFife (Dec 3, 2022)

Pitches are looking terrible at this stage. Seen better Sunday league fields.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 3, 2022)

When did they change the rule?
Aussie going for the goal line with the ball. Argie pushes him off the ball and keeps pushing, with the arm not the shoulder, until the ball goes dead over the line.
Referee watches and does nothing.
Weak as…..


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 3, 2022)

God scores again 

He isn't human


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 3, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			One thing I have noticed is how firm the pitches look.
Many have been fooled by really high bounces
These new pitches are very firm I wonder if it’s having an effect on players joints?
		
Click to expand...

I would aslo say they don't look very tidy now. They look quite ratty.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 3, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I would aslo say they don't look very tidy now. They look quite ratty.
		
Click to expand...

I mentioned to MissisT during group games that the pitches looked bobbly.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 3, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I would aslo say they don't look very tidy now. They look quite ratty.
		
Click to expand...

The Sun/heat might be affecting the Plastic Desso and bleaching it.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 3, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			The Sun/heat might be affecting the Plastic Desso and bleaching it.
		
Click to expand...

The Aus-Argie match pitch looked like a Sunday morning pitch after it had been trammel racked. Very rough looking


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 3, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			The Aus-Argie match pitch looked like a Sunday morning pitch after it had been trammel racked. Very rough looking
		
Click to expand...

Could also be the water if it’s drawn from the sea and treated.
But they do look terrible


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 3, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Could also be the water if it’s drawn from the sea and treated.
But they do look terrible
		
Click to expand...

I remember the autumn masters during covid where DJ smashed it . The course I thought looked awful ...

Turned out our TV was broken lol


----------



## Slime (Dec 3, 2022)

Do you think the commentators all touch themselves whenever Messi gets the ball?
It's getting quite pathetic, there are others on the pitch!


----------



## Slime (Dec 3, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			God scores again

He isn't human
		
Click to expand...

Really?


----------



## fundy (Dec 3, 2022)

Slime said:



			Do you think the commentators all touch themselves whenever Messi gets the ball?
It's getting quite pathetic, there are others on the pitch!
		
Click to expand...

you never complained when it was ronaldo they were doing the same with


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 3, 2022)

Slime said:



			Really?
		
Click to expand...

Yes. I've seen him in person he is outstanding. Proper wizard 

A pure joy to watch , much more enjoyable than the ego who will claim he scored with his hair just to break a record


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 3, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			The Aus-Argie match pitch looked like a Sunday morning pitch after it had been trammel racked. Very rough looking
		
Click to expand...

Sunday league pitches must have improved no end since I played then.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 3, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sunday league pitches must have improved no end since I played then.

Click to expand...

Well this is a bit above Sunday league as I've seen no piles of dog poo on it yet


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 3, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Well this is a bit above Sunday league as I've seen no piles of dog poo on it yet
		
Click to expand...

There in the bags hanging off the trees.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 3, 2022)

Slime said:



			Do you think the commentators all touch themselves whenever Messi gets the ball?
It's getting quite pathetic, there are others on the pitch!
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂

Wonder why you don’t say the same thing when it’s Ronaldo 😂😂


----------



## Slime (Dec 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			you never complained when it was ronaldo they were doing the same with 

Click to expand...

Oh, it was nothing as bad as this.
At one point they even started laughing at Ronaldo ............................... and rightly so.


----------



## fundy (Dec 3, 2022)

Slime said:



			Oh, it was nothing as bad as this.
At one point they even started laughing at Ronaldo ............................... and rightly so.
		
Click to expand...


for us neutrals it was i guarantee you lol


----------



## Slime (Dec 3, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂😂😂

Wonder why you don’t say the same thing when it’s Ronaldo 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Commentators don't drool anywhere near as much, that'll be why.


----------



## Slime (Dec 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			for us neutrals it was i guarantee you lol
		
Click to expand...

In the Messi/Ronaldo debate, there are no neutrals.
Some people either think Ronaldo is the GOAT ............................ other people are wrong.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 3, 2022)

Slime said:



			Commentators don't drool anywhere near as much, that'll be why. 

Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I suspect you may well be seeing that through bias eyes 😂


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 3, 2022)

Slime said:



			In the Messi/Ronaldo debate, there are no neutrals.
Some people either think Ronaldo is the GOAT ............................ other people are wrong. 

Click to expand...

Cristiano Ronaldo is not even the best Ronaldo that’s ever been 🤫😉


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 3, 2022)

Slime said:



			Commentators don't drool anywhere near as much, that'll be why. 

Click to expand...

Because pundits rightly appreciate selfless football. That's what sets him apart from the ego 

All about the team 

Not complaining when a goal is awarded to your team mate


----------



## fundy (Dec 3, 2022)

Slime said:



			In the Messi/Ronaldo debate, there are no neutrals.
Some people either think Ronaldo is the GOAT ............................ other people are wrong. 

Click to expand...

You and the squirrel are biased


----------



## Slime (Dec 3, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Cristiano Ronaldo is not even the best Ronaldo that’s ever been 🤫😉
		
Click to expand...

............. and Messi's not even the best Argentinian that's ever been.


----------



## Slime (Dec 3, 2022)

fundy said:



			You and the squirrel are biased 

Click to expand...

Oh, I am definitely biased, everyone is to a certain degree, but even Lineker decided to have a Messi 'love in' after the game.
And 'love in' was his actual phrase, not mine.
Anyhow, we all know Messi is the 4th best player of all time.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 3, 2022)

Slime said:



			............. and Messi's not even the best Argentinian that's ever been. 

Click to expand...

For some and including me Maradona was better , 
top 5 players ( on ability)for me 

Maradona 
Ronaldo ( real one )
Messi
Zidane 
Ronaldinho


----------



## Slime (Dec 3, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			For some and including me Maradona was better ,
top 5 players ( on ability)for me

Maradona
Ronaldo ( real one )
Messi
Zidane
Ronaldinho
		
Click to expand...

Staggered Ronaldo isn't in your top 5, but maybe I'm not surprised at all.
He'd probably be in 99% of others' top 5.

For me it's as follows;

  1. Ronaldo
═2. Maradona
═2. Best
═4. Messi
═4. Pele

I'd like to squeeze Le Tissier and Modric in, but they're not quite there.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 3, 2022)

Slime said:



			Staggered Ronaldo isn't in your top 5, but maybe I'm not surprised at all.
He'd probably be in 99% of others' top 5.

For me it's as follows;

  1. Ronaldo
═2. Maradona
═2. Best
═4. Messi
═4. Pele

I'd like to squeeze Le Tissier and Modric in, but they're not quite there.
		
Click to expand...

When it’s comes down to ability, skill levels etc then nope he isn’t in my top 5 -

If you are talking just pure goalscoring then yes he would get into a top 5


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 3, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599149193204887553
Looks like Ronaldo number one fan has been reading this thread


----------



## chrisd (Dec 3, 2022)

Messi has been, by a long way, the best player ever. Yes, Ronaldo is/was the best goal scorer but Messi was a much better alround player and just wonderful to watch


----------



## Slime (Dec 3, 2022)

chrisd said:



			Messi has been, by a long way, the best player ever. Yes, Ronaldo is/was the best goal scorer but Messi was a much better alround player and just wonderful to watch
		
Click to expand...

In your opinion.


----------



## IanM (Dec 3, 2022)

Football is about opinions!


----------



## chrisd (Dec 3, 2022)

Slime said:



			In your opinion. 

Click to expand...


And that of millions of others. 

I did see Renaldo live for Manure and he just sat on his backside all game moaning at the referee - Messi would have torn us apart  🤗


----------



## Piece (Dec 3, 2022)

pauljames87 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599149193204887553
Looks like Ronaldo number one fan has been reading this thread
		
Click to expand...

He does have a point to a degree. Even my 13 year old said the BBC were going well over the top!


----------



## Piece (Dec 3, 2022)

Slime said:



			Staggered Ronaldo isn't in your top 5, but maybe I'm not surprised at all.
He'd probably be in 99% of others' top 5.

For me it's as follows;

  1. Ronaldo
═2. Maradona
═2. Best
═4. Messi
═4. Pele

I'd like to squeeze Le Tissier and Modric in, but they're not quite there.
		
Click to expand...

My five, in no particular order…

Messi
Best
CR7
Pele
Iniesta


----------



## Slime (Dec 3, 2022)

But that's the beauty, there is no right or wrong here, it's just opinion. 




Mine just happens to be right!


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 3, 2022)

chrisd said:



			And that of millions of others.

I did see Renaldo live for Manure and he just sat on his backside all game moaning at the referee - Messi would have torn us apart  🤗
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, Ronaldo was awful for Man Utd. He just never managed to improve his game once he left Sporting Lisbon as a promising youngster. Ohh, what could have been....


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 4, 2022)

I was lucky to see Messi a few years ago at Wembley against Spurs in the CL and it was one the best individual displays I've seen live. He barely moved into a sprint yet totally ran the game. Scored 2, started the moves that led to the other goals and hit the woodwork twice. Spurs were a brilliant side back then and they couldn't get near him. Masterclass


----------



## chrisd (Dec 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah, Ronaldo was awful for Man Utd.
		
Click to expand...


He was the day I saw him - moody, petulant,  like a spoiled 5 year old, but then he was up against  "The Mighty Eagles"


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 4, 2022)

Nah, Stanley Matthews was the best. Saw him when he was a kid before he went to Blackpool.!  Knew he’d be good.

And the pitches weren’t green then, either.


----------



## Voyager EMH (Dec 4, 2022)

Not in any order

Pele
Cruyff
Maradona
Best
And one of the current players, but I will have to reserve that judgement until they have finished playing. 

But we all judge this by flair players who are seen to do the most thrilling stuff and ignore the importance of defenders and goalkeepers. It is always going to be a team game.


----------



## HeftyHacker (Dec 4, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Nah, Stanley Matthews was the best. Saw him when he was a kid before he went to Blackpool.!  Knew he’d be good.

And the pitches weren’t green then, either.
		
Click to expand...

Either him or Tom Finney.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 4, 2022)

One of the best footballers I ever saw live was Bobby Charlton.
Fantastic athlete who could run all day.
Skilful and a great goalscorer.

Never saw Messi live but can’t leave him out.

Banks.
Messi
Moore
Dalglish.
Charlton


----------



## arnieboy (Dec 4, 2022)

Jimmy Greaves, one of the greatest goal scorers of all time.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 4, 2022)

arnieboy said:



			Jimmy Greaves, one of the greatest goal scorers of all time.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, what he would have done now.
Would have been even more prolific.


----------



## Slime (Dec 4, 2022)

Unfortunately, nobody saw enough of Duncan Edwards.
Bobby Charlton maintains that Edwards is still the best player he's seen playing the game and that if he'd not been killed in the Munich air disaster he'd probably have been the England captain for the '66 world cup!


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 4, 2022)

Slime said:



			Unfortunately, nobody saw enough of Duncan Edwards.
Bobby Charlton maintains that Edwards is still the best player he's seen playing the game and that if he'd not been killed in the Munich air disaster he'd probably have been the England captain for the '66 world cup!
		
Click to expand...

Would have played alongside Bobby Moore in 66 no doubt, but not necessarily the Captain.
Good candidate, but not always wise to have your best player for Captain. A mistake often made.
Watching a film made about B Moore, after his death, produced by David Frost.
Ive kept it, and watch it frequently. Reminds me of what we were.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 4, 2022)

Szczesny really into the festive spirit and has come as The Grinch - nice touch!


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

Come on Poland


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 4, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Szczesny really into the festive spirit and has come as The Grinch - nice touch!
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully he's just as mean as the Grinch too and doesn't give France any gifts.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 4, 2022)

1. C Ronaldo
2. Messi
3. Maradona
4. Best
5. Fred.....only joking, Ronaldo

Note, my 5th best of all time could be Pele, although I've not seen as much as him as the others. Also, not sure how strong his opponents were at club level, and he played international football at a time there was a big difference in quality between good and poor sides, and he played for just about the best side out there.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 4, 2022)

The Frenchies look they mean business...


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			1. C Ronaldo
2. Messi
3. Maradona
4. Best
5. Fred.....only joking, Ronaldo

Note, my 5th best of all time could be Pele, although I've not seen as much as him as the others. Also, not sure how strong his opponents were at club level, and he played international football at a time there was a big difference in quality between good and poor sides, and he played for just about the best side out there.
		
Click to expand...

I never really saw Maradona or anyone before that era so my 5 would have to be:
1. C.Ronaldo
2. Messi 
3. Ronaldo 
4. Zidane 
5. Ronaldinho 

These lists are always biased towards attacking players though. It's hard to say that someone like Ashley Cole for example wasn't as good as those five relative to his position.


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I never really saw Maradona or anyone before that era so my 5 would have to be:
1. C.Ronaldo
2. Messi
3. Ronaldo
4. Zidane
5. Ronaldinho

These lists are always biased towards attacking players though. *It's hard to say that someone like Ashley Cole for example wasn't as good as those five relative to his position*.
		
Click to expand...

lololololololololololololololol


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 4, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I never really saw Maradona or anyone before that era so my 5 would have to be:
1. C.Ronaldo
2. Messi
3. Ronaldo
4. Zidane
5. Ronaldinho

These lists are always biased towards attacking players though. It's hard to say that someone like Ashley Cole for example wasn't as good as those five relative to his position.
		
Click to expand...

Ashley Cole is a weird player to use as an example haha. Maybe Maldini or Roberto Carlos


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Ashley Cole is a weird player to use as an example haha. Maybe Maldini or Roberto Carlos
		
Click to expand...

Cole was certainly one of the best lefts backs I've seen in my lifetime. He was world class. maybe some don't recognise it purely because he was seen as a bit of a bell-end, which I wouldn't disagree with.


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Cole was certainly one of the best lefts backs I've seen in my lifetime. He was world class. maybe some don't recognise it purely because he was seen as a bit of a bell-end, which I wouldn't disagree with.
		
Click to expand...

Saw plenty of Cole live, he was a decent full back but he was a long way from world class imho, 100% on your other point though


----------



## paddyc (Dec 4, 2022)

Dion on the commentary 🤬so the sound is off!!


----------



## Imurg (Dec 4, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Dion on the commentary 🤬so the sound is off!!
		
Click to expand...

Best way..most of what they say j can see for myself...


----------



## Imurg (Dec 4, 2022)

Wow!


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Dion on the commentary 🤬so the sound is off!!
		
Click to expand...

much prefer when hes talking about knocking a wall down to make it more open plan


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)




----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2022)

quality from Giroud, still got it.....


----------



## paddyc (Dec 4, 2022)

fundy said:



			quality from Giroud, still got it.....
		
Click to expand...

Laura Georges in the studio she's certainly  got it🙂


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 4, 2022)

On the best in the world discussion, we are so dependent on TV to judge. Names like Puskas, Di Stefano for example are talked about in hallowed terms but we just don't see TV coverage of them. Pele also drops down people's lists because we see so few TV pictures. I never put Best in a list because I just didn't see him, same as Puskas and Di Stefano for me.

I'm sure there are other names that should be included, John Charles anyone?, but we need some old people to throw some out there.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 4, 2022)

The irony of Professional footballers  looking, incredulous,  at another player play-acting and in the process denying a goal when they know damn well they done the same thing dozens of times in the past.....


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

Looks like the ego has a ready made replacement in the ego 2.0


----------



## Imurg (Dec 4, 2022)

Bang goes my Super 6....

A bit wobbly at times but France have done a very professional job on Poland....


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

Hope someone gets him away from psg


----------



## Slime (Dec 4, 2022)

Mbappe, what a player.
For me, the tournament's stand out player by a distance, and currently one of the two players fighting for the next Balon D'or.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 4, 2022)

What a crap penalty....
Where's Julian Dicks when you  need him..?


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 4, 2022)

Imurg said:



			What a crap penalty....
Where's Julian Dicks when you  need him..?
		
Click to expand...

It was woeful and he didn't deserve another go at it! Players only encroached and Lloris only came off his line because he all but stopped in his run up which is supposed to not be allowed.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 4, 2022)

My fantasy team, I went big on France for today. Dembele, Mbappe, Lloris and 2 defenders I can't remember. Massive points coming in and then a penalty last kick that takes the gloss off 🤬🤬.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 4, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			My fantasy team, I went big on France for today. Dembele, Mbappe, Lloris and 2 defenders I can't remember. Massive points coming in and then a penalty last kick that takes the gloss off 🤬🤬.
		
Click to expand...

Especially when he saved it first time!


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Especially when he saved it first time!
		
Click to expand...

Na im good I predicted 3-1


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2022)

rumours have this as the England team 

Pickford 

Walker 
Stones 
Maguire
Shaw

Rice
Henderson 

Saka
Bellingham 
Foden 

Kane


----------



## paddyc (Dec 4, 2022)

Saka in for Rashford rumoured, not sure about that Gareth?
Foden starting rumoured that's fine Gareth.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Saka in for Rashford rumoured, not sure about that Gareth?
Foden starting rumoured that's fine Gareth.
		
Click to expand...

Saka was outstanding against Iran . Scoring twice 

He create a good chance for kane against USA and always looks lively

Enables foden to play on left 

If true correct call


----------



## SteveW86 (Dec 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			rumours have this as the England team

Pickford

Walker
Stones
Maguire
Shaw

Rice
Henderson

Saka
Bellingham
Foden

Kane
		
Click to expand...

I’d be happy with that team. 

My issue generally is when he waits too long to change things if they aren’t working


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			rumours have this as the England team 

Pickford 

Walker 
Stones 
Maguire
Shaw

Rice
Henderson 

Saka
Bellingham 
Foden 

Kane
		
Click to expand...

Would prefer tripper but good team


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 4, 2022)

Decent line up. The front 4 is top class but my only concern is the 3 behind Kane lack experience on a stage like this. Hopefully they'll run the game and we get the job done. A lot of quality on the bench too and not many teams would want Sterling or Rashford coming on with 30 mins to go. Although Southgate would probably leave it until the 85th minute


----------



## paddyc (Dec 4, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Saka was outstanding against Iran . Scoring twice

He create a good chance for kane against USA and always looks lively

Enables foden to play on left

If true correct call
		
Click to expand...

Don't disagree but Saka poor against  USA as was everyone. Rasford brimming with confidence and can go down the middle if Kane drops deep. I just think Senegal will be happier with Saka than Rashford running at them.


----------



## Slime (Dec 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			rumours have this as the England team

Pickford

Walker
Stones
Maguire
Shaw

Rice
Henderson

Saka
Bellingham
Foden

Kane
		
Click to expand...

I'd go with Trippier for Walker at the back, that'll keep Walker fit to face France if we beat Senegal.
I'd have Bellingham next to Rice, Foden moves into the middle and Rashford as wide midfielder.
That'll see us romp home 3-0 or maybe 3-1.
I'm very surprised he doesn't start, very surprised.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2022)

Slime said:



			I'd go with Trippier for Walker at the back, that'll keep Walker fit to face France if we beat Senegal.
I'd have Bellingham next to Rice, Foden moves into the middle and Rashford as wide midfielder.
I'm very surprised he doesn't start, very surprised.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe underestimating Senegal there - it’s a choice between Rashford and Saka , certainly won’t suddenly put Foden in a role not played for England or even much for City.

Even without Mane , Senegal are going to provide a tougher test than England have faced so far


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Decent line up. The front 4 is top class but my only concern is the 3 behind Kane lack experience on a stage like this. Hopefully they'll run the game and we get the job done. A lot of quality on the bench too and not many teams would want Sterling or Rashford coming on with 30 mins to go. Although Southgate would probably leave it until the 85th minute 

Click to expand...

Sterling is out tonight for family reasons just been announced


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe underestimating Senegal there - it’s a choice between Rashford and Saka , certainly won’t suddenly put Foden in a role not played for England or even much for City.

Even without Mane , Senegal are going to provide a tougher test than England have faced so far
		
Click to expand...

Senegal are considerably worse than the USA IMO. Their best two attackers are both playing in the Championship and Koulibaly is so wooden he makes Harry Maguire look nimble. Mendy has looked terrible in the last few months as well.

Can they beat us? Absolutely because if we play like we did against the US or in the first half against Wales we're in trouble. If we play well, we win with ease.


----------



## Dando (Dec 4, 2022)

I heard on radio 5live earlier that Kane is ready to “explode” tonight on the goal scoring front


----------



## IanM (Dec 4, 2022)

Another couple of hours of stress!


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 4, 2022)

Happy with the team. Expected Hendo and Walker, shame for Rashford but I can see him making a difference off the bench in any game! Come on England!!!


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 4, 2022)

No problem with the starting lineup.
Walkers fit just not match fit,I suspect he playing to get fitness,can’t see Trippier starting again.
Great that we have very good players who can change games if need be,however I’m very confident of a result.


----------



## Slime (Dec 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe underestimating Senegal there - it’s a choice between Rashford and Saka , certainly won’t suddenly put Foden in a role not played for England or even much for City.

Even without Mane , Senegal are going to provide a tougher test than England have faced so far
		
Click to expand...

Not underestimating them at all, I just think we'd be better off going all out from the start.
Play to our strengths from minute one.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

Maguire's 1st touch 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 4, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			No problem with the starting lineup.
Walkers fit just not match fit,I suspect he playing to get fitness,can’t see Trippier starting again.
Great that we have very good players who can change games if need be,however I’m very confident of a result.
		
Click to expand...

I suspect that if we get past Senegal both Walker and Trippier will start against France in a back five.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2022)

Slime said:



			Not underestimating them at all, I just think we'd be better off going all out from the start.
Play to our strengths from minute one.
		
Click to expand...

And leave themselves exposed ? 

As you can see Senegal have already caused a few issues and ghosted past Maguire and Co 

Going on this so far Mbappe and Dembele are going to tear that back 4 apart


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 4, 2022)

Commentator - "he got a good head on it".

As the replay shows it bouncing off Stones' shoulder. 😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

Maguire again🤦🏼‍♂️


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 4, 2022)

Got to admire the Maguire trolls, who can't wait for any slight error by him, and then plaster it all over social media


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2022)

midfield really need to help the back 4 getting the ball forward here, massive gap between them and little movement ahead every time and when they do offer they just give it straight back


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Got to admire the Maguire trolls, who can't wait for any slight error by him, and then plaster it all over social media 

Click to expand...

Sounds like i need to up my game, Any links?


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 4, 2022)

Jordan Pickford


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Jordan Pickford
		
Click to expand...

He's defo on the spectrum him.


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			He's defo on the spectrum him.
		
Click to expand...

Class though


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 4, 2022)

What is Henderson's role? I thought he might be in as another deep midfielder, but it usually is only Rice coming back to get ball off defenders, and he is pretty easily marked. He doesn't seem to offer too much in attack either. Surely he can't be there for his shouting?


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 4, 2022)

Harry Kane looks allergic to the opposition box. Get up there lad!!!!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2022)

What’s the formation ? It seems like a 4-1-4-1

England sitting deep , not much pressing or pressure , then when they get the ball there isn’t anything on - tempo is slow and lethargic at the moment , lots of mistakes at the moment


----------



## Imurg (Dec 4, 2022)

Are we trying to bore them into submission..?
This has the same pattern as the USA game...


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 4, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Harry Kane looks allergic to the opposition box. Get up there lad!!!!
		
Click to expand...

He'd be pretty lonely. The midfield are terrible at the moment. Only Bellingham seems decent at times.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			What is Henderson's role? I thought he might be in as another deep midfielder, but it usually is only Rice coming back to get ball off defenders, and he is pretty easily marked. He doesn't seem to offer too much in attack either. Surely he can't be there for his shouting?
		
Click to expand...

To score the goal 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			What is Henderson's role? I thought he might be in as another deep midfielder, but it usually is only Rice coming back to get ball off defenders, and he is pretty easily marked. He doesn't seem to offer too much in attack either. Surely he can't be there for his shouting?
		
Click to expand...

Because he scores goals…


----------



## chrisd (Dec 4, 2022)

We'll score soon!


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 4, 2022)

Haha Haha


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 4, 2022)

Now, how the hell did that happen😂😂😂😂


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

Well played Bellingham to Henderson, good to get into that position 

Great ball from kane aswell 

Well played all round


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 4, 2022)

OHHH HENDO WE LOVE YOU!


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			What is Henderson's role? I thought he might be in as another deep midfielder, but it usually is only Rice coming back to get ball off defenders, and he is pretty easily marked. He doesn't seem to offer too much in attack either. Surely he can't be there for his shouting?
		
Click to expand...

Haha. 😂 Timing.


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2022)

Brilliant from Bellingham and a good finish that 

We can sit even ddeper now 

Walker lucky not to be in the book just before


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 4, 2022)

Must have been a great shout to let Bellingham know he was there


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 4, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Class though
		
Click to expand...

He has strong arms. Not an unusual type of save for him, he is good at those. 

Cracking goal, great from Bellingham and Henderson


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 4, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			OHHH HENDO WE LOVE YOU!
		
Click to expand...

Top player, I said he should always be in the side.


----------



## SteveW86 (Dec 4, 2022)

Rice would have missed that


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Must have been a great shout to let Bellingham know he was there
		
Click to expand...

You just won’t quit it will you 😂


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 4, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Haha. 😂 Timing.
		
Click to expand...

I was also about to say that it is good Kane is getting back, otherwise we'd have nothing in midfield. That part came right, great play by Bellingham and Kane.

Wasn't expecting Henderson to turn up in box though.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

I hate aftertiming but i had a north sea @25/1 on Hendo FGS🤣🤣


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I hate aftertiming but i had a north sea on Hendo FGS🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...


dont do it then  nice bet sir


----------



## Slime (Dec 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Got to admire the Maguire trolls, who can't wait for any slight error by him, and then plaster it all over social media 

Click to expand...

It's amazing that they didn't see the errors from Stones, Saka and Kane.
Maybe it's because they don't play for United?


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Rice would have missed that
		
Click to expand...

Have to agree, keeper should have done better but out the 3 midfielders I'd back Henderson to finish it . Then Bellingham and rice would most likely not.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

I wont bang on about the Henderson trolls though 😁


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2022)

Slime said:



			It's amazing that they didn't see the errors from Stones, Saka and Kane.
Maybe it's because they don't play for United?
		
Click to expand...

It’s always amusing when some just can’t stop with the club tribalism - maybe some need to also look in a mirror 🙄

It’s staggering you have said nothing about the Man Utd fan trolling on about Henderson 🙄


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

Slime said:



			It's amazing that they didn't see the errors from Stones, Saka and Kane.
Maybe it's because they don't play for United?
		
Click to expand...

Dont be so precious,  its because he's utter dog turd  regardless of who he plays for. 

He should be nowhere near this side on ability nevermind form.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 4, 2022)

Boys...this is ENGLAND.......


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 4, 2022)

Great counter


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 4, 2022)

ITS COMING HOME


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 4, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I was also about to say that it is good Kane is getting back, otherwise we'd have nothing in midfield. That part came right, great play by Bellingham and Kane.

Wasn't expecting Henderson to turn up in box though.
		
Click to expand...

In fairness, Hendo normally isn't that far forward so it was unexpected. I believe we're playing a straight 4-3-3 rather than a 4-2-3-1, so it is Rice sitting with the other two box to box.

There we go, that's more like it H.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

Bellingham though👌


----------



## Slime (Dec 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s always amusing when some just can’t stop with the club tribalism - maybe some need to also look in a mirror 🙄

It’s staggering you have said nothing about the Man Utd fan trolling on about Henderson 🙄
		
Click to expand...


You really think I'm guilty of tribalism, really?


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2022)

Bellingham again  2 on 1 and a good goal. About time Mr Kane got himself a goal


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

Yes kane. Great work from Bellingham and foden there 

Great team goal again


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 4, 2022)

Bellingham, wow what a player we have 😳


----------



## Slime (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Dont be so precious,  its because he's utter dog turd  regardless of who he plays for.

He should be nowhere near this side on ability nevermind form.
		
Click to expand...


I bow down to your greater knowledge because I'm just a telly clapper.
Presumably you see him play live on a regular basis?


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

Slime said:



			You really think I'm guilty of tribalism, really?
		
Click to expand...

🤔🤔🤔


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Bellingham, wow what a player we have 😳
		
Click to expand...

Him and rice are going to be some partnership tbh 

Will be great to see

Teams playing fantastic ATM


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

Slime said:





Click to expand...




Slime said:





Click to expand...

Which one is it Slimey dear boy?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2022)

Slime said:



			You really think I'm guilty of tribalism, really?
		
Click to expand...

🤦‍♂️

You can’t see it can you. You’re going on about people only slagging off United players , you’re the one bringing clubs into it

anyway 

Clearly a far better second half of the first half , Senegal didn’t take their chances but then Bellingham with two passages of pure quality opened them up


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Bellingham, wow what a player we have 😳
		
Click to expand...

Will this change when klopp signs him?😁


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Will this change when klopp signs him?😁
		
Click to expand...

He’s going Madrid…..


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

Great ball from Foden, Sterling defo falls over


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Bellingham though👌
		
Click to expand...

Apparently Henderson has pretty much adopted him in the camp. Smart move, laying the groundwork. He's going to cost a few quid though.


----------



## nickjdavis (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Maguire's 1st touch 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

His second hasnt been too much better.


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Will this change when klopp signs him?😁
		
Click to expand...


not sure theres gonna be many teams who can afford him after this


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

What a save from Pickford aswell btw


----------



## Slime (Dec 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤦‍♂️

You can’t see it can you. *You’re going on about people only slagging off United players* , you’re the one bringing clubs into it

anyway

Clearly a far better second half of the first half , Senegal didn’t take their chances but then Bellingham with two passages of pure quality opened them up
		
Click to expand...

Oh, that makes it tribal, does it? Thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 4, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			What a save from Pickford aswell btw
		
Click to expand...

Blokes just so good for England.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 4, 2022)

England doing well enough 👏


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Blokes just so good for England.
		
Click to expand...

He is insane for England. Like an entirely different player


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 4, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Blokes just so good for England.
		
Click to expand...

And yet people still questioned his position pre tournament 🤷‍♂️

Opposition countries need to speak to Toon fans to see how to mess with his head 😆


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

Kane's got as many 2022 WC goals as Hendo 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			His second hasnt been too much better.
		
Click to expand...

A foul?


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 4, 2022)

Good scoreline but somewhat fortunate. I thought maybe Maguire was colour blind and couldn't see the green kit of the Senegal players 

Bellingham is running the show and looks a hell of a player. Class.


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 4, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			And yet people still questioned his position pre tournament 🤷‍♂️

Opposition countries need to speak to Toon fans to see how to mess with his head 😆
		
Click to expand...

Not me! Always my starter!


----------



## SteveW86 (Dec 4, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			And yet people still questioned his position pre tournament 🤷‍♂️

Opposition countries need to speak to Toon fans to see how to mess with his head 😆
		
Click to expand...

He’s bound to look bad playing in the current Everton team though isn’t it. He’s not a magician.


----------



## PieMan (Dec 4, 2022)

The football thread would be so much better without the Yernited and Livarpool fans..........!!!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2022)

Walker still looks very rusty  , the save by Pickford was superb , Saka just not in the game at all , expect him to be replaced first

Bellingham next season in the Prem next to Hendo is going to be class 😁


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Walker still looks very rusty  , the save by Pickford was superb , Saka just not in the game at all , expect him to be replaced first

Bellingham next season in the Prem next to Hendo is going to be class 😁
		
Click to expand...

You’re dreaming 😂 if you pay out what he’s probably worth you’d be setting a new British transfer record. No way you do that unless you do get new owners


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Walker still looks very rusty  , the save by Pickford was superb , Saka just not in the game at all , expect him to be replaced first

Bellingham next season in the Prem next to Hendo is going to be class 😁
		
Click to expand...

Imagine him feeding Lord Divock 😁


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Walker still looks very rusty  , the save by Pickford was superb , Saka just not in the game at all , expect him to be replaced first

Bellingham next season in the Prem next to Hendo is going to be class 😁
		
Click to expand...


Walker looks way off the pace and cant be the right option against Mbappe IF we get through

Saka been ok, bit different playing on the right on your own to us loading 3 or 4 down the left when we attack


----------



## Slime (Dec 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Walker still looks very rusty  , the save by Pickford was superb , Saka just not in the game at all , expect him to be replaced first

*Bellingham next season in the Prem next to Hendo is going to be class *😁
		
Click to expand...

I didn't realise United are looking to buy Henderson!


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			He’s bound to look bad playing in the current Everton team though isn’t it. He’s not a magician.
		
Click to expand...

Nah, he's culpable for where Everton are, generally.


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 4, 2022)

fundy said:



			Walker looks way off the pace and cant be the right option against Mbappe IF we get through

Saka been ok, bit different playing on the right on your own to us loading 3 or 4 down the left when we attack
		
Click to expand...

We’re going 5 back next game. It’s not even a debate 😂


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2022)

youre all gonna be upset when Bellingham links back up with Haaland at City lol


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 4, 2022)

FOOTBALL IS COMING HOME


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2022)

Cracking goal  Nice Booooooooo


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

Yes! Come on saka. Confidence boosting 

Maybe rest a few now


----------



## Slime (Dec 4, 2022)

Good goal that, a really good goal.


----------



## Slime (Dec 4, 2022)

All we need now is Mbappe to get food poisoning on the morning of the game!


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2022)

Big argument to take all the front 3 and Bellingham off here with half hr to go


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

Slime said:



			I didn't realise United are looking to buy Henderson!
		
Click to expand...

Thats going to be awkward 🤣🤣


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 4, 2022)

fundy said:



			Walker looks way off the pace and cant be the right option against Mbappe IF we get through

Saka been ok, bit different playing on the right on your own to us loading 3 or 4 down the left when we attack
		
Click to expand...

Not his biggest fan or anything but Walker is only option to mark Mbappe. Nobody else in that squad has even half a chance of keeping pace with him!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 4, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			He’s bound to look bad playing in the current Everton team though isn’t it. He’s not a magician.
		
Click to expand...

Hey, we give him the practice he needs 😆.

You won't hear complaints from Everton fans. He is much more solid now, doesn't have the 'moments' he used to have.


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Not his biggest fan or anything but Walker is only option to mark Mbappe. Nobody else in that squad has even half a chance of keeping pace with him!
		
Click to expand...


Nor does Walker on the evidence of the last 2 games


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 4, 2022)

Half time At the Michael Jackson tribute concert. 😳😖


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

Thought mendy looked poor for 2 of the goals tonight 

But then he isn't a good keeper


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 4, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Not his biggest fan or anything but Walker is only option to mark Mbappe. Nobody else in that squad has even half a chance of keeping pace with him!
		
Click to expand...

You have to double team him. It's worth losing 2 players that way to keep him quiet.


----------



## BrianM (Dec 4, 2022)

Englands goals tonight have been superb, big save from Pickford to keep it at 0-0, then enter Jude Bellingham, what a player, Foden as well, just world class players in my opinion.
You’ve got to attack France as that’s where all the strength lies in this English side, surely can’t fear anyone with what we’ve seen so far in this tournament.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2022)

fundy said:



			Walker looks way off the pace and cant be the right option against Mbappe IF we get through

Saka been ok, bit different playing on the right on your own to us loading 3 or 4 down the left when we attack
		
Click to expand...

Walker is the only player you can see being able to battle Mbappe pace wise 

time to rest a few now - front 3 and maybe Rice


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 4, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You have to double team him. It's worth losing 2 players that way to keep him quiet.
		
Click to expand...

It's pretty much 100% likely we go to the back five, Walker and Trippier on that right hand side.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

fundy said:



			Nor does Walker on the evidence of the last 2 games
		
Click to expand...

I got a feeling he will go back 5

Walker CB

Tripper right back


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2022)

Who are those playing 5 at the back dropping? One of the midfielders?


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

Maddison and Gallagher are gonna end up with dry rot


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2022)

And still he leaves Kane out there to be kicked............


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 4, 2022)

fundy said:



			Who are those playing 5 at the back dropping? One of the midfielders?
		
Click to expand...

Rice or hendo I imagine - Who can predict Gareth though!


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Rice or hendo I imagine - Who can predict Gareth though!
		
Click to expand...

Id say foden or saka tbh


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 4, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Englands goals tonight have been superb, big save from Pickford to keep it at 0-0, then enter Jude Bellingham, what a player, Foden as well, just world class players in my opinion.
You’ve got to attack France as that’s where all the strength lies in this English side, surely can’t fear anyone with what we’ve seen so far in this tournament.
		
Click to expand...

Dead right because defensively we are rubbish. Stones is going to look really really bad against France. Anytime that ball is going to be in our half against France, then, lookout. French pace will have us. 
We must move forward. All this Stones/Maguire pat a cake will be our downfall.


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 4, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Id say foden or saka tbh
		
Click to expand...

Can’t leave Foden out


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 4, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Dead right because defensively we are rubbish. Stones is going to look really really bad against France. Anytime that ball is going to be in our half against France, then, lookout. French pace will have us.
We must move forward. All this Stones/Maguire pat a cake will be our downfall.
		
Click to expand...

Don't forget, Stones and Maguire will largely be up against Giroud. No pace there for them to be afraid of. It's the full backs that will really earn their money.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Englands goals tonight have been superb, big save from Pickford to keep it at 0-0, then enter Jude Bellingham, what a player, Foden as well, just world class players in my opinion.
You’ve got to attack France as that’s where all the strength lies in this English side, surely can’t fear anyone with what we’ve seen so far in this tournament.
		
Click to expand...

I disagree  attacking France would be suicidal. Give them space and theyll pick you off. I think its a game of chess. 

A game of discipline and patience. Anything else and it's danger.

Do you think France are thinking "lets attack England"?


----------



## Slime (Dec 4, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Dead right because *defensively we are rubbish.* Stones is going to look really really bad against France. Anytime that ball is going to be in our half against France, then, lookout. French pace will have us.
We must move forward. All this Stones/Maguire pat a cake will be our downfall.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, we've already let two goals in this tournament and one of those wasn't a dodgy penalty!


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Don't forget, Stones and Maguire will largely be up against Giroud. No pace there for them to be afraid of. It's the full backs that will really earn their money.
		
Click to expand...

Giroud will keep those 2 occupied whist Demeble, Griezman and Mbappe are allowed to run into the spaces. Pretty much what happened to Poland today. the key is bein able to double up on the fast guys when needed whether it be the centre half or a midfielder helping the full back out


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I disagree  attacking France would be suicidal. Give them space and theyll pick you off. I think its a game of chess.

A game of discipline and patience. Anything else and it's danger.

Do you think France are thinking "lets attack England"?
		
Click to expand...


theyd much rather play us on the counter attack if we are compliant


----------



## Slime (Dec 4, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You have to double team him. It's worth losing 2 players that way to keep him quiet.
		
Click to expand...

And they may have to double team Bellingham ............................... maybe.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

Really don't understand kane being kept on 

He being run ragged for 90 mins for what reason? He has his goal and we are through 

Let him rest for Saturday


----------



## IanM (Dec 4, 2022)

No one obsesses about a smelly opening half hour when other teams win ...

Mind you, France are different gravy!


----------



## Slime (Dec 4, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Really don't understand kane being kept on

He being run ragged for 90 mins for what reason? He has his goal and we are through

Let him rest for Saturday
		
Click to expand...

I'd have no problem with Wilson starting against France.


----------



## Slime (Dec 4, 2022)

IanM said:



			No one obsesses about a smelly opening half hour when other teams win ...

*Mind you, France are different gravy!*

Click to expand...

Maybe the French are thinking that England are a different gravy!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2022)

France play pretty similar than England - Rabiot and Touchmeni as a two with Greizmann just in front - then Mbappe and Dembele wide with Giroud high 

Going 5 at the back will mean losing width High up the pitch and prob getting outnumbered in the middle - it would be a very defensive call , France with Varane and Upamenco haven’t been very solid at times and have allowed teams chances 

Just go with the same team


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			France play pretty similar than England - Rabiot and Touchmeni as a two with Greizmann just in front - then Mbappe and Dembele wide with Giroud high

Going 5 at the back will mean losing width High up the pitch and prob getting outnumbered in the middle - it would be a very defensive call , France with Varane and Upamenco haven’t been very solid at times and have allowed teams chances

Just go with the same team
		
Click to expand...


Theyre certainly vulnerable at the back, winning midfield will be crucial as will finding a way to contain Mbappe. Likely be cagey early but could really open up if/when theres a goal


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2022)

Being reported Sterling was missing because armed robbers had attacked his house and carried out a "major robbery"

Scumbags, utter scumbags if true


----------



## BrianM (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I disagree  attacking France would be suicidal. Give them space and theyll pick you off. I think its a game of chess.

A game of discipline and patience. Anything else and it's danger.

Do you think France are thinking "lets attack England"?
		
Click to expand...

I just think you’re weak at the back, I don’t think France are much better defensively either, with the attacking players you have, get in their faces and attack them.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

BrianM said:



			I just think *you’re* weak at the back, I don’t think France are much better defensively either, with the attacking players you have, get in their faces and attack them.
		
Click to expand...

Woah there, i dont support them, i just watch Football.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 4, 2022)

Slime said:



			And they may have to double team Bellingham ............................... maybe.
		
Click to expand...

The French will have watched this game and have the same worries about England as we have about them. I'm sure of that, they won't fancy playing us.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 4, 2022)

Very lacklustre game but three excellent goals.
Bellingham Hendo and Kane really played well.
Shout out for the ref best I have seen in WC.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 4, 2022)

We're shaky at the back - no doubt - BUT hellfire we're scoring goals and keeping clean sheets. Who couldn't be happy with that...apart from non England fans


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 4, 2022)

Another comfortable win. Gareth got it right again.

Most goals scored. Not bad for a boring team that don’t attack.
Fewest conceded (I think)
No bookings


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 4, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Very lacklustre game but three excellent goals.
Bellingham Hendo and Kane really played well.
Shout out for the ref best I have seen in WC.
		
Click to expand...

Great shout about the ref, did a great job there


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

fundy said:



			Being reported Sterling was missing because armed robbers had attacked his house and carried out a "major robbery"

Scumbags, utter scumbags if true
		
Click to expand...

Disgusting. 

These creatures need putting down.

As a off topic did you see 24hours in custody the other day??
2 rotters try to break to a house, the owner chases them, knock's them off a stolen bike and ends up doing 22months in prison. 

The 2 scumbags get off with community service ffs🤦🏼‍♂️


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 4, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Very lacklustre game but three excellent goals.
Bellingham Hendo and Kane really played well.
Shout out for the ref best I have seen in WC.
		
Click to expand...

He did well which surprised me as he seemed one of those rather excitable refs we get at the world cup.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

Think this is the best England team I've seen 

Yes we have had some great individuals but this team is fantastic and has depth 

Only area we lack in depth is CB


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Disgusting.

These creatures need putting down.

As a off topic did you see 24hours in custody the other day??
2 rotters try to break to a house, the owner chases them, knock's them off a stolen bike and ends up doing 22months in prison.

The 2 scumbags get off with community service ffs🤦🏼‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Didnt see it but have read about it yeah, was in Phils backyard, been a lot of local press round here about it! See the crowdfund restored all his costs almost overnight shows you the public opinion on it


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 4, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			We're shaky at the back - no doubt - BUT hellfire we're scoring goals and keeping clean sheets. Who couldn't be happy with that...apart from non England fans 

Click to expand...

Just like watching City then


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 4, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just like watching City then 

Click to expand...

Exactly!


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



*Think this is the best England team I've seen*

Yes we have had some great individuals but this team is fantastic and has depth

Only area we lack in depth is CB
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

You were slagging henderson 5 days ago 🤭


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 4, 2022)

fundy said:



			Didnt see it but have read about it yeah, was in Phils backyard, been a lot of local press round here about it! See the crowdfund restored all his costs almost overnight shows you the public opinion on it
		
Click to expand...

Shows how piss weak the courts are.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

fundy said:



			Didnt see it but have read about it yeah, *was in Phils backyard,* been a lot of local press round here about it! See the crowdfund restored all his costs almost overnight shows you the public opinion on it
		
Click to expand...

Phils fault again?


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Phils fault again?
		
Click to expand...

your words not mine 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

Jude Bellingham, old head on young shoulders.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

fundy said:



			your words not mine 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Coward 🤣


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Jude Bellingham, old head on young shoulders.
		
Click to expand...

Yes he is.
Wonder where he will go 
City’s bench for the money
Liverpool to play every week.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 4, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes he is.
Wonder where he will go
City’s bench for the money
Liverpool to play every week.
		
Click to expand...

Think he will go to a big club instead


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes he is.
Wonder where he will go
City’s bench for the money
Liverpool to play every week.
		
Click to expand...

He doesn't sit on anyones bench.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 4, 2022)

Good performance 
Last 30 minutes boring as hell 
Kane on all game is pure madness Anyway really think we can do the French


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 4, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes he is.
Wonder where he will go 
City’s bench for the money
Liverpool to play every week.
		
Click to expand...

Replaces KDB at City 🤔


----------



## paddyc (Dec 4, 2022)

Why did Southgate not give Maddison a run. Clearly  only took him to stop any flak he would have got. Grealish does nothing but end up on backside every other minute. Feel sorry for him every other outfield player has had a run out.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Why did Southgate not give Maddison a run. Clearly  only took him to stop any flak he would have got. Grealish does nothing but end up on backside every other minute. Feel sorry for him every other outfield player has had a run out.
		
Click to expand...

Grealish is nearly as overated as Maguire.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			🤣🤣🤣🤣🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

You were slagging henderson 5 days ago 🤭
		
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter does it? With or without him the squad is good. 

When he retires we have players coming through

But hey point score

Thought you didn't do international football?


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

All this tosh about Southgate being a negative manager . Never plays god football or changes it 

Used a lot of his squad 

15 goals in 4 games with only 2 let in

Think people need to give him a break


----------



## BrianM (Dec 4, 2022)

Got to say as well, all the negativity regarding the host nation at the beginning has well and truly been forgotten, they are hosting (on TV anyway) a great World Cup.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Got to say as well, all the negativity regarding the host nation at the beginning has well and truly been forgotten, they are hosting (on TV anyway) a great World Cup.
		
Click to expand...

As an old chef told me, what the eye doesnt see, the belly wont feel.

Read social media from people who are there and its a different story


----------



## BrianM (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			As an old chef told me, what the eye doesnt see, the belly wont feel.

Read social media from people who are there and its a different story
		
Click to expand...

At the beginning It seemed poor, but things have maybe relaxed a bit now.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 4, 2022)

Slime said:



			Yeah, we've already let two goals in this tournament and one of those wasn't a dodgy penalty!  

Click to expand...

we’ll see. So far, we’ve played nothing 
like the quality that France are.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



*Doesn't matter does it?* With or without him the squad is good.

When he retires we have players coming through

But hey point score

*Thought you didn't do international football?*

Click to expand...

Beep beeep beep beep, some serious back tracking here PJ.

100% it matters. You had him hung drawn and quartered for losing the Euros only a few days ago.Then you went to town on his performance  last week.

You thought wrong. Show me where i said such a thing?

I consider myself a football nerd. 

I love the big  international tournaments, watching the worlds finest teams. 
.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Beep beeep beep beep, some serious back tracking here PJ.

100% it matters. You had him hung drawn and quartered for losing the Euros only a few days ago.Then you went to town on his performance  last week.

You thought wrong. Show me where i said such a thing?

I consider myself a football nerd. 

I love the big  international tournaments, watching the worlds finest teams. 
.
		
Click to expand...

Apologises I genuinely thought u weren't interested in England so my bad 

I wrong on Henderson, he still has something to offer


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 4, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			we’ll see. So far, we’ve played nothing
like the quality that France are.
		
Click to expand...

Neither have France played anyone like the quality of England.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

BrianM said:



			At the beginning It seemed poor, but things have maybe relaxed a bit now.
		
Click to expand...

Only a few days ago a Journo was threatened by local police with arrest if she she never deleted footage on her phone of what was going on outside the Ghana V Uruguay game. 

There's tonnes more going on what's not being reported because they will not allow such negativity.


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 4, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			All this tosh about Southgate being a negative manager . Never plays god football or changes it

Used a lot of his squad

15 goals in 4 games with only 2 let in

Think people need to give him a break
		
Click to expand...

This is totally wrong.

The first 30 minutes were shocking again. We were very close to being 2-0 down and got lucky. He had all week to prepare and we start like a snail again. The second we start pressing and don't pass backwards between the centre backs we look a very good side.

I think we're a better side and squad than France but we're going to get done due to Southgate not learning his lesson. I hope I'm wrong but that's 3/4 poor starts and only weak opposition has allowed us to get away with it.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Disgusting.

These creatures need putting down.

As a off topic did you see 24hours in custody the other day??
2 rotters try to break to a house, the owner chases them, knock's them off a stolen bike and ends up doing 22months in prison.

The 2 scumbags get off with community service ffs🤦🏼‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Jeeesus!   And I get criticism for saying this Country’s gone to the dogs!
If true as reported here, then I pity you young decent folk.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

4LEX said:



			This is totally wrong.

The first 30 minutes were shocking again. We were very close to being 2-0 down and got lucky. He had all week to prepare and we start like a snail again. The second we start pressing and don't pass backwards between the centre backs we look a very good side.

I think we're a better side and squad than France but we're going to get done due to Southgate not learning his lesson. I hope I'm wrong but that's 3/4 poor starts and only weak opposition has allowed us to get away with it.
		
Click to expand...

Respectfully disagree. France looked average until they scored.. Poland were the better side at first much like our game 

International football is like that 

Southgate has changed styles for this world cup. 4 at the back now instead of 5 

It's good football


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



*Apologises I genuinely thought u weren't interested in England so my bad*

I wrong on Henderson, he still has something to offer
		
Click to expand...

I have a "passing" interest. I dont put face paint on and sing GSTK like but i watch them. I don't support them. 

If they win, i'm not arsed, if they lose i have a laugh. I try to call the performance as i see it.  Though i must admit, i do like watching Maguire, his defending is  like a classic Tom and Jerry sketch 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

4LEX said:



			This is totally wrong.

The first 30 minutes were shocking again. We were very close to being 2-0 down and got lucky. He had all week to prepare and we start like a snail again. The second we start pressing and don't pass backwards between the centre backs we look a very good side.

*I think we're a better side and squad than France *but we're going to get done due to Southgate not learning his lesson. I hope I'm wrong but that's 3/4 poor starts and only weak opposition has allowed us to get away with it.
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Nurse , Nurse he's out the bed again🤭🤭


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I have a "passing" interest. I dont put face paint on and sing GSTK like but i watch them. I don't support them. 

If they win, i'm not arsed, if they lose i have a laugh. I try to call the performance as i see it.  Though i must admit, i do like watching Maguire, his defending is  like a classic Tom and Jerry sketch 🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Maigure was shown up for his pace tonight and for me our Cbs are the worry in the side ..

We need good centre backs to come through


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Maigure was shown up for his pace tonight and for me our Cbs are the worry in the side ..

We need good centre backs to come through
		
Click to expand...

And ability. He should  be nowhere near that team.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			And ability. He should  be nowhere near that team.
		
Click to expand...

Problem is there aren't much better


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Problem is there aren't much better
		
Click to expand...

That should not justify why he's still  playing for England whilst struggling to get 5 mins for his club.

I've seen enough top level football over the last 30yrs and he is comfortably up there with Neil Ruddock. Absolute yardie of a CB.

If anyone in the PL could sign him tomorrow for £10m only 3 teams would try to sign him. He's pony.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			That should not justify why he's still  playing for England whilst struggling to get 5 mins for his club.

I've seen enough top level football over the last 30yrs and he is comfortably up there with Neil Ruddock. Absolute yardie of a CB.

If anyone in the PL could sign him tomorrow for £10m only 3 teams would try to sign him. He's pony.
		
Click to expand...

I think he isn't suited to United but was suited to Leicester

Think he would be a great replacement for zouma for us next to aguard tbh .. now zouma has had another knee op


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I think he isn't suited to United but was suited to Leicester

Think he would be a great replacement for zouma for us next to aguard tbh .. now zouma has had another knee op
		
Click to expand...

Wow. After everything you've seen and said you'd be happy for him to replace Zouma?

🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Nurse , Nurse he's out the bed again🤭🤭
		
Click to expand...

GK - Pickford has always done well for England with very few mistakes. Lloris is past his best. At best level

RB - Walker different level to Kounde who is out of position
CB - Upamecano hasn't lived upto the early hype
CB - Varane - Classy player but injury prone and lacks sharpness
LB - Shaw is better than Hernandez

Defence is fairly even as we have the better full backs and France the better centre backs.

CM - Rice over Rabiot all day
CM - Henderson v Tchouameni I'd take Henderson for the moment due to experience in that role

AML Mbappe wins this by a million miles although we've got three top class options there
AMC Not many would pick Griezmann over Bellingham
AMR Dembele is a brilliant dribbler but lacks end product. Saka all day.

CF - Giroud is underrated but Kane is in the top 4 strikers in the world

The benches are a mismatch. Saliba would probably start for us at CB but then it would be only Coman who would get on for England.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Wow. After everything you've seen and said you'd be happy for him to replace Zouma?

🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

I think he would add an excellent option .

We have aguard, zouma and Dawson and proper CBs 

Kehrer doesn't no if he RB or CB (prefer him rb) and ogbonna is basically finished at prem level now sadly 

Dawson wants to return north for family reasons , he has served us well and only stayed as we didn't get someone in

Aguard only just returned from months out, looks good but risky , zouma has just had another knee op could be out for few months 

I think maigure would be an excellent option to have and once all fit would provide excellent depth


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

4LEX said:



			GK - Pickford has always done well for England with very few mistakes. Lloris is past his best. At best level

RB - Walker different level to Kounde who is out of position
CB - Upamecano hasn't lived upto the early hype
CB - Varane - Classy player but injury prone and lacks sharpness
LB - Shaw is better than Hernandez

Defence is fairly even as we have the better full backs and France the better centre backs.

CM - Rice over Rabiot all day
CM - Henderson v Tchouameni I'd take Henderson for the moment due to experience in that role

AML Mbappe wins this by a million miles although we've got three top class options there
AMC Not many would pick Griezmann over Bellingham
AMR Dembele is a brilliant dribbler but lacks end product. Saka all day.

CF - Giroud is underrated but Kane is in the top 4 strikers in the world

The benches are a mismatch. Saliba would probably start for us at CB but then it would be only Coman who would get on for England.
		
Click to expand...

Keeper i'll give you.

Uppemecano/Varrane/konate are all better than Engalnds CBs, comfortably
Fullbacks are better, Walker is still a fortnight away from full fitness, Luke Shaw is,well , average 

Tchouameni is at the level of Bellingham, so i'll score that a draw,

Other 2 are better than any Combo you want to come up with in midfield.....

Mbappe will toy with the fullbacks,  itll be like a Tom&Jerry Cartoon sketch.

Then you've got the tactical nouse of Deschamps over Southgate 

You're on cloud cuckoo land if you think England ard a match for France


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I think he would add an excellent option .

We have aguard, zouma and Dawson and proper CBs

Kehrer doesn't no if he RB or CB (prefer him rb) and ogbonna is basically finished at prem level now sadly

Dawson wants to return north for family reasons , he has served us well and only stayed as we didn't get someone in

Aguard only just returned from months out, looks good but risky , zouma has just had another knee op could be out for few months

*I think maigure would be an excellent option to have and once all fit would provide excellent depth*

Click to expand...

No wonder Rice is looking elsewhere.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			No wonder Rice is looking elsewhere.
		
Click to expand...

Spend £30 million on aguard and looks class 
Spend £30 million on zouma who apart from kicking cats has been excellent

If you offered me maigure for anything under 20 mil I'd bite your hand off to back them up 

Surely you got to see him as an upgrade on Dawson?

Squad game after all


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Spend £30 million on aguard and looks class
Spend £30 million on zouma who apart from kicking cats has been excellent

If you offered me maigure for anything under 20 mil I'd bite your hand off to back them up

Surely you got to see him as an upgrade on Dawson?

Squad game after all
		
Click to expand...

I'd have Dawson ahead of him.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 4, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Spend £30 million on aguard and looks class
Spend £30 million on zouma who apart from kicking cats has been excellent

If you offered me maigure for anything under 20 mil I'd bite your hand off to back them up

Surely you got to see him as an upgrade on Dawson?

Squad game after all
		
Click to expand...

Think HM would miss the cat.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I'd have Dawson ahead of him.
		
Click to expand...

Been talks of Micheal Keane who is of a same age as maigure. I'd have him personally

Dawson will be off. He 32 and needs to go back north 

Wish him well and replace with someone who has experience


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Think HM would miss the cat.
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Been talks of Micheal Keane who is of a same age as maigure. I'd have him personally

Dawson will be off. He 32 and needs to go back north

Wish him well and replace with someone who has experience
		
Click to expand...

MK is worse than maguire accordinv to my bloooooooooo bretheren


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 4, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			MK is worse than maguire accordinv to my bloooooooooo bretheren
		
Click to expand...

To be fair. Prime Rio Ferdinand would look rubbish playing under lampard


----------



## Smiffy (Dec 5, 2022)

Not Pickford's biggest fan, can't put my finger on why.
But got to admire his distribution. He's spot on with almost everything he clears.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 5, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Think HM would miss the cat.
		
Click to expand...

He certainly wouldn't have the pace to catch it if it went past him.

Surely any young English CB who is half decent must look at the England team and think theres the chance to cement a long term place in the team. There's no real outstanding candidates waiting to take over so with a bit of hard work could make that position their own for the next 5/10 years.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 5, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			He certainly wouldn't have the pace to catch it if it went past him.

*Surely any young English CB who is half decent must look at the England team and think theres the chance to cement a long term place in the team*. There's no real outstanding candidates waiting to take over so with a bit of hard work could make that position their own for the next 5/10 years.
		
Click to expand...

As long as you don't play in Italy.


----------



## IanM (Dec 5, 2022)

Good round do far.   Level par stood in the 14th tee.   2 under will win, but there's a some tricky holes coming!!


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 5, 2022)

IanM said:



			Good round do far.   Level par stood in the 14th tee.   2 under will win, but there's a some tricky holes coming!!
		
Click to expand...

…and if it were me I’d be wary of my deep-seated ability to shank the ball when least, or indeed most, expected…just in time to mess things up totally.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 5, 2022)

Can’t belive he put Mount on instead of Maddison.
Give the lad some game time or why take him.?


----------



## Slime (Dec 5, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



*Can’t believe he put Mount on* instead of Maddison.
Give the lad some game time or why take him.?
		
Click to expand...

That would have been enough.


----------



## IanM (Dec 5, 2022)

In the event of England winning the final 2-0, they'll be on here in droves moaning it wasn't 3-0  

Ho hum.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 5, 2022)

Slime said:



			That would have been enough.
		
Click to expand...

I agree but the lad needs a few minutes while on holiday.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 5, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			He certainly wouldn't have the pace to catch it if it went past him.

Surely any young English CB who is half decent must look at the England team and think theres the chance to cement a long term place in the team. There's no real outstanding candidates waiting to take over so with a bit of hard work could make that position their own for the next 5/10 years.
		
Click to expand...

They would have to get past GS mindset that big club players are better.
When it’s quite clear they are not in certain cases.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 5, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			They would have to get past GS mindset that big club players are better.
When it’s quite clear they are not in certain cases.
		
Click to expand...

Not forgetting that GS picks players on form, so all those other players   who are in form and playing well know that as long as the likes of HM and CP are breathing they won’t get a look in.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 5, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Not forgetting that GS picks players on form, so all those other players   who are in form and playing well know that as long as the likes of HM and CP are breathing they won’t get a look in.
		
Click to expand...

CP?


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 5, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			They would have to get past GS mindset that big club players are better.
When it’s quite clear they are not in certain cases.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think they'll need to worry about that for too much longer. I reckon that Southgate will be gone after Saturday.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 5, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Not forgetting that GS picks players on form, so all those other players   who are in form and playing well know that as long as the likes of HM and CP are breathing they won’t get a look in.
		
Click to expand...

If he picked on form the England team would change week in week out 

He does pick on form on certain positions and has shown to do so, saka, rashford , tripper first 2 games 

But then you have your players who never let England down. Pickford, Shaw 

Would you suddenly want to see Pickford dropped for say ramsdale who is an excellent keeper and will be number one in the future if he carries on but Pickford hasn't done anything for England to warrant dropping.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 5, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			They would have to get past GS mindset that big club players are better.
When it’s quite clear they are not in certain cases.
		
Click to expand...

Where is this mindset? His keeper is Everton when ramsdale is arsenal 

He has rice in midfield from west ham when Phillips of city on the bench 

Kane of spurs , hardly a champ winning team 

It's a myth now that you have to be big club to get in the team.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 5, 2022)

It strikes me that, in general, England fans are an incredibly negative bunch. Maybe it is mainly in forums like these, as fans like to tell the world what they feel, and it is so much better to get things off your chest by spouting negative views. But, it seems to go from normal stuff about who you think should be in a squad, in a starting 11, how we should play, etc (which all seem perfectly normal discussions), to becoming absolutely hell bent in highlighting any criticism / mistake and lambasting the players you are meant to be supporting. I wonder if other big nations are the same. Not so much after crashing out, which is bound to generate negative feedback, but whilst actually playing in the tournament?

It can't go unnoticed that, thus far, England must look impressive to other nations watching? They had one sub par game, against USA, but got a result that was very useful none the less. They have kept 3 clean sheets in 4 games, and conceded 2, both of which came when the game was already won, and one of which was a questionable penalty. They've scored 12 goals in 4 games. So, I thought I'd look at some of the positive aspects of some of the England players, mainly those that get some heavy criticism, and also those that must genuinely frighten the opponents:

*Pickford:* Of all England goalkeepers that I have ever seen (going back to early 90's), he seems to be best at not letting the shirt weight him down. Even if he was to make a mistake, as all goalkeepers do, I honestly don't think it would negatively impact to the same extent as it would most other keepers. Might not even phase him at all, and he'll just get on with doing what he does.

*Maguire:* Indeed, we all know of his struggles, and he is no Rio Ferdinand or VVD. Sadly, each time I watch him in possession, I suspect it is the expectations of the fans that negatively impact him more than complete lack of ability. He knows he'll get slagged off at any given opportunity by many England fans, even for the smallest of errors. Constant cheap shots. But, he has still done well thus far, and a good presence to have in the box when crosses are being fired in. I suspect he will only come away from this World Cup with any general credit if England win the tournament, as if they concede and go out he may well get the blame (and God forbid he actually makes a big error, as he genuinely might have to leave the country with the abuse I'd expect he'd get) 

*Bellingham:* What can I say, he looks absolutely immense. Thankfully, he doesn't have any real critics as yet, probably because he hasn't played for Man Utd or Liverpool (or rivals of them), and most fans will be desperate he signs for them in the future.

*Foden:* Just another immense player, playing in a club side where he is used to very high expectations (sadly he is just at the wrong club  ). Really lively, nimble and can create something out of nothing.

*Kane:* He just seems to get so much criticism, and I don't get it. Is it because he doesn't camp out in the opposition box? To me, he is a very different striker. He may well have made a new position. Some sort of striking quarterback, a Number 9, 10 and 8 rolled into one. He moves all over the opposition half, that it would be impossible to keep him marked. He is intelligent, has a good touch, holds onto the ball well, great vision and can play a great pass. As long as he has players around him on his wavelength, he is an incredible player to have in your team. Do people really think Calum Wilson would be better up front for England? You'd probably have to put a lot more pressure on the midfield in creating chances for him, whereas with Kane he very much a key component of the build up.

*Grealish:* He doesn't score or set up goals as much as people want. But, he does have a great ability of keeping hold of the ball, and drawing fouls. Excellent timing in just nicking the ball away from a defender as they think they have a chance to get the ball. I'd be interested to know how often he is actually dispossessed, I have a feeling that stat might be relatively low compared to others (weighted for dribbles made).

*Rashford:* Had a torrid year or so, and he still frustrates at times by losing possession. However, a lot of pace and power, and can use that to devastating effect. I am sure he is a player a defender would be nervous about facing. Even if he doesn't start, can be a very good impact sub

*Rice:* He just seems to be doing a very professional job thus far, seems to have a very steady head to play that role as the deep midfielder, difficult to be critical.

*Henderson:* Even I question Henderson's inclusion at times, and joke about his shouting. But, I certainly wasn't surprised that he made the squad, and that he has certain qualities that can be used in the right system. Good intelligent run for his goal yesterday, albeit I didn't understand what his role was in that 11, as I expected him to be sitting deeper.

*TAA:* Well, I can't imagine he will get any game time in the next games, unless England are winning by 4 or 5 goals. I just think he is not a great defender, certainly not compared to those around him. However, he clearly has other amazing qualities, and if he played in a side that played a different way, he'd be one of the first on the team sheet. Maybe, if England are in a losing position, he might get a chance to come on and create goals. Even though he plays for Liverpool, it would be lovely to see him score a late free-kick equaliser and then setting up the winning goal (even better if Maguire was the one to benefit from the cross, and it was the final)

*Southgate:* I'm still not convinced he is a manager that can maximise the attacking talent of the team (but I guess no manager is perfect in every single possible area), but it is also true that we are starting to see more attacking positives from games, so it is not abysmal. My biggest questioning of him was in the USA game, mainly because I couldn't understand not picking Foden, and the late subs when England were really struggling at the start of that second half. However, his biggest strength could be the way he manages those players. As I alluded to at the start, playing for England must be an extremely stressful situation for many players, when many will get so much abuse from their so called fans. It almost feels like the fans are more excited about saying "I told you so..." when things go wrong, than giving their support to all the players, and not lynching them when things go wrong. But, Southgate seems to have built an atmosphere within the camp that blocks this feeling of intimidation out. There is a confidence and spirit that I have never seen in an England squad before, and so there has to be massive credit to him in that. He also deals very well within the press conferences, and so he never adds fuel to the flames when the media are trying to stir things up. So, given the type of fans / media England have, perhaps Southgate is the perfect man to manage England?

The chances of England winning are less than 50%. But, the same is true for every big nation. To win a World Cup, a team needs to hope that they reach their peak for the tournament (easier said than done), but even if they do, will still require moments of luck to go their way. Before France scored last night, a pretty poor Polish team were giving them a good game, and probably should have been winning. The next game will be England's biggest test, same for France. Could go either way. But, I think there is a lot more to be positive about this England squad for the next few years, rather than being all doom and gloom.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 5, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Where is this mindset? His keeper is Everton when ramsdale is arsenal

He has rice in midfield from west ham when Phillips of city on the bench

Kane of spurs , hardly a champ winning team

It's a myth now that you have to be big club to get in the team.
		
Click to expand...

The best club sides scarcely have any English players anyway. If they do they're mostly on the bench.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 5, 2022)

Anyone see the celebration between Bellingham and Henderson after Henderson scored, where they put their heads together? The way VAR has gone this tournament, I am just glad VAR didn't ask the referee to review the incident, and send both players off for a headbutt


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 5, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It strikes me that, in general, England fans are an incredibly negative bunch. Maybe it is mainly in forums like these, as fans like to tell the world what they feel, and it is so much better to get things off your chest by spouting negative views. But, it seems to go from normal stuff about who you think should be in a squad, in a starting 11, how we should play, etc (which all seem perfectly normal discussions), to becoming absolutely hell bent in highlighting any criticism / mistake and lambasting the players you are meant to be supporting. I wonder if other big nations are the same. Not so much after crashing out, which is bound to generate negative feedback, but whilst actually playing in the tournament?

It can't go unnoticed that, thus far, England must look impressive to other nations watching? They had one sub par game, against USA, but got a result that was very useful none the less. They have kept 3 clean sheets in 4 games, and conceded 2, both of which came when the game was already won, and one of which was a questionable penalty. They've scored 12 goals in 4 games. So, I thought I'd look at some of the positive aspects of some of the England players, mainly those that get some heavy criticism, and also those that must genuinely frighten the opponents:

*Pickford:* Of all England goalkeepers that I have ever seen (going back to early 90's), he seems to be best at not letting the shirt weight him down. Even if he was to make a mistake, as all goalkeepers do, I honestly don't think it would negatively impact to the same extent as it would most other keepers. Might not even phase him at all, and he'll just get on with doing what he does.

*Maguire:* Indeed, we all know of his struggles, and he is no Rio Ferdinand or VVD. Sadly, each time I watch him in possession, I suspect it is the expectations of the fans that negatively impact him more than complete lack of ability. He knows he'll get slagged off at any given opportunity by many England fans, even for the smallest of errors. Constant cheap shots. But, he has still done well thus far, and a good presence to have in the box when crosses are being fired in. I suspect he will only come away from this World Cup with any general credit if England win the tournament, as if they concede and go out he may well get the blame (and God forbid he actually makes a big error, as he genuinely might have to leave the country with the abuse I'd expect he'd get)

*Bellingham:* What can I say, he looks absolutely immense. Thankfully, he doesn't have any real critics as yet, probably because he hasn't played for Man Utd or Liverpool (or rivals of them), and most fans will be desperate he signs for them in the future.

*Foden:* Just another immense player, playing in a club side where he is used to very high expectations (sadly he is just at the wrong club  ). Really lively, nimble and can create something out of nothing.

*Kane:* He just seems to get so much criticism, and I don't get it. Is it because he doesn't camp out in the opposition box? To me, he is a very different striker. He may well have made a new position. Some sort of striking quarterback, a Number 9, 10 and 8 rolled into one. He moves all over the opposition half, that it would be impossible to keep him marked. He is intelligent, has a good touch, holds onto the ball well, great vision and can play a great pass. As long as he has players around him on his wavelength, he is an incredible player to have in your team. Do people really think Calum Wilson would be better up front for England? You'd probably have to put a lot more pressure on the midfield in creating chances for him, whereas with Kane he very much a key component of the build up.

*Grealish:* He doesn't score or set up goals as much as people want. But, he does have a great ability of keeping hold of the ball, and drawing fouls. Excellent timing in just nicking the ball away from a defender as they think they have a chance to get the ball. I'd be interested to know how often he is actually dispossessed, I have a feeling that stat might be relatively low compared to others (weighted for dribbles made).

*Rashford:* Had a torrid year or so, and he still frustrates at times by losing possession. However, a lot of pace and power, and can use that to devastating effect. I am sure he is a player a defender would be nervous about facing. Even if he doesn't start, can be a very good impact sub

*Rice:* He just seems to be doing a very professional job thus far, seems to have a very steady head to play that role as the deep midfielder, difficult to be critical.

*Henderson:* Even I question Henderson's inclusion at times, and joke about his shouting. But, I certainly wasn't surprised that he made the squad, and that he has certain qualities that can be used in the right system. Good intelligent run for his goal yesterday, albeit I didn't understand what his role was in that 11, as I expected him to be sitting deeper.

*TAA:* Well, I can't imagine he will get any game time in the next games, unless England are winning by 4 or 5 goals. I just think he is not a great defender, certainly not compared to those around him. However, he clearly has other amazing qualities, and if he played in a side that played a different way, he'd be one of the first on the team sheet. Maybe, if England are in a losing position, he might get a chance to come on and create goals. Even though he plays for Liverpool, it would be lovely to see him score a late free-kick equaliser and then setting up the winning goal (even better if Maguire was the one to benefit from the cross, and it was the final)

*Southgate:* I'm still not convinced he is a manager that can maximise the attacking talent of the team (but I guess no manager is perfect in every single possible area), but it is also true that we are starting to see more attacking positives from games, so it is not abysmal. My biggest questioning of him was in the USA game, mainly because I couldn't understand not picking Foden, and the late subs when England were really struggling at the start of that second half. However, his biggest strength could be the way he manages those players. As I alluded to at the start, playing for England must be an extremely stressful situation for many players, when many will get so much abuse from their so called fans. It almost feels like the fans are more excited about saying "I told you so..." when things go wrong, than giving their support to all the players, and not lynching them when things go wrong. But, Southgate seems to have built an atmosphere within the camp that blocks this feeling of intimidation out. There is a confidence and spirit that I have never seen in an England squad before, and so there has to be massive credit to him in that. He also deals very well within the press conferences, and so he never adds fuel to the flames when the media are trying to stir things up. So, given the type of fans / media England have, perhaps Southgate is the perfect man to manage England?

The chances of England winning are less than 50%. But, the same is true for every big nation. To win a World Cup, a team needs to hope that they reach their peak for the tournament (easier said than done), but even if they do, will still require moments of luck to go their way. Before France scored last night, a pretty poor Polish team were giving them a good game, and probably should have been winning. The next game will be England's biggest test, same for France. Could go either way. But, I think there is a lot more to be positive about this England squad for the next few years, rather than being all doom and gloom.
		
Click to expand...

Good post. Pickford is a weird one, I still don't think he's top drawer, but it is weird and notable that he's only made mistakes for his club so far and not really for England. I've said similar to you on Hendo - I don't always know what he brings to the table, but he's done as well as anyone.

Agree on Kane (of course) - you'd have to have a particularly blinkered view to criticise him for not scoring when he has played at least some part in the majority of the goals we've scored - if not the assist then picking the ball up and playing it out to the assister, or even as simple as dragging his marker out of the box for the goalscorer to have space.

I think Southgate has clearly been a terrific motivator for the younger players and deserves credit for that. My biggest criticism is simply that he doesn't know how to use subs properly, when things need changing, it's always too little too late. But obviously he still has time to rectify that.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 5, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Anyone see the celebration between Bellingham and Henderson after Henderson scored, where they put their heads together? The way VAR has gone this tournament, I am just glad VAR didn't ask the referee to review the incident, and send both players off for a headbutt 

Click to expand...

It was a little bit weird and intense


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 5, 2022)

Never mind headbutting, I half expected the Qatari police to arrest them...


----------



## sunshine (Dec 5, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			CP?
		
Click to expand...

Carlton Palmer.

Pretty obvious that many older England fans (this forum is a good indication) prefer England to be more direct. Get it forward quickly, don't mess around with it at the back, long ball into the mixer etc. Whenever I've been to Wembley there's always agitation in the stands when the team try the patient build up and retain possession (this has been a constant theme in my experience going back to Hoddle and Venables). People expect 100mph football for 90 minutes. You can't win a world cup playing like that but it doesn't register with many fans.


----------



## fundy (Dec 5, 2022)

sunshine said:



			Carlton Palmer.

Pretty obvious that many older England fans (this forum is a good indication) prefer England to be more direct. Get it forward quickly, don't mess around with it at the back, long ball into the mixer etc. Whenever I've been to Wembley there's always agitation in the stands when the team try the patient build up and retain possession (this has been a constant theme in my experience going back to Hoddle and Venables). People expect 100mph football for 90 minutes. You can't win a world cup playing like that but it doesn't register with many fans.
		
Click to expand...


Thats not it for me, its the lack of movement and options for the guys at the back when playing out that I dont like. It forces it to become very slow because they have little options ahead of them. The amount of times Stones/Maguire had no forward options available to them was far too often. Completely different to watching the top club sides where there is a far better understanding, more movement and better options to progress the ball into and through midfield so everything is able to happen quicker when there is a gap to exploit (remids me of arsenal last season!). Thankfully most sides at the world cup arent that good defensively so still give you opportunities but feel we need on or two of the midfielders to come and help them out more often, even if just to move the opposition around more and open up the gaps


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 5, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Good post. Pickford is a weird one, I still don't think he's top drawer, but it is weird and notable that he's only made mistakes for his club so far and not really for England. I've said similar to you on Hendo - I don't always know what he brings to the table, but he's done as well as anyone.

Agree on Kane (of course) - you'd have to have a particularly blinkered view to criticise him for not scoring when he has played at least some part in the majority of the goals we've scored - if not the assist then picking the ball up and playing it out to the assister, or even as simple as dragging his marker out of the box for the goalscorer to have space.

I think Southgate has clearly been a terrific motivator for the younger players and deserves credit for that. My biggest criticism is simply that he doesn't know how to use subs properly, when things need changing, it's always too little too late. But obviously he still has time to rectify that.
		
Click to expand...

The Hendo thing is pretty simple for me - our other CM's are Maddison, Phillips, Mount and Gallagher. 

Gallagher is a future talent but not trusted atm
Maddison is just not trusted in general
Phillips has played 58 minutes or something this season
Mount - started the tournament slowly but a very good player.

Hendo is match fit, experienced in big games and a good distributor of the ball, he's there just to keep the passing fluidity going and lead the team by 1) example and 2) on field leadership (shouting - but its more than that, its managing the game)

Alongside Rice - Solid CDM and Bellingham - Box to box I actually think its a great combination.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 5, 2022)

I think that England have done just fine and dandy, and whilst I understand frustrations at what might be seen as failings, the negativity expressed by some (many?) is frankly just miserablist in extreme.  Just support your bleedin’ team, they are a great bunch of lads demonstrating genuine passion and love of their country, and just wanting, and desperate, to do their very best for every England supporter.

And of course I say that most sincerely folks whilst waving my 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 5, 2022)

The Sterling robbery story is taking some weird twists. Claims of armed robbers and family inside but police stating the family were away and returned home to find jewellery missing...


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 5, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Where is this mindset? His keeper is Everton when ramsdale is arsenal

He has rice in midfield from west ham when Phillips of city on the bench

Kane of spurs , hardly a champ winning team

It's a myth now that you have to be big club to get in the team.
		
Click to expand...

If Maguire was playing for Brighton would he be in the England team.
Grealish never got a look in until he went to City.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 5, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			If Maguire was playing for Brighton would he be in the England team.
Grealish never got a look in until he went to City.
		
Click to expand...

Grealish switched late the England, it was a very political move to get him, the works behind the scenes had been happening years 

He had to prove he was more than a party boy 

Played the euros as a villa player


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It was a little bit weird and intense 

Click to expand...

Just practicing for January in the PL


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 5, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just practicing for January in the PL
		
Click to expand...

Will you be buying him and Bellingham?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Will you be buying him and Bellingham?
		
Click to expand...

Hendo is now chief scout.


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 5, 2022)

Crazy to think back in Jan 2020 Man Utd had Haaland and Bellingham offers accepted but couldn't agree personal terms. Haaland they stalled over a sell on fee and Bellingham decided Dortmund was a better place to develop.

What price the pair now? Over £400m?


----------



## DaveR (Dec 5, 2022)

I love a penalty shootout but Japan were pants!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 5, 2022)

Woeful penalties from Japan. Just hit it!


----------



## srixon 1 (Dec 5, 2022)

DaveR said:



			I love a penalty shootout but Japan were pants!
		
Click to expand...

I think they must have been watching some old England penalty shootouts for their training.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Woeful penalties from Japan. Just hit it!
		
Click to expand...

They were awful 

Even the one they scored was rubbish


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 5, 2022)

Surprised at Japan. Clearly their meticulous preparation still couldn't counteract the nerves in a penalty shoot out.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 5, 2022)

Disgusting. Either the rule or the referee. How in hell is that a penalty?
The Korean didn’t even know he was there.mHeveas clearing the ball.

How can natural justice be turned on it’s head like this.?


----------



## paddyc (Dec 5, 2022)

Joke of a decision. What is VAR doing not even giving the ref the chance to look at that.


----------



## Golfmmad (Dec 5, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			He certainly wouldn't have the pace to catch it if it went past him.

Surely any young English CB who is half decent must look at the England team and think theres the chance to cement a long term place in the team. There's no real outstanding candidates waiting to take over so with a bit of hard work could make that position their own for the next 5/10 years.
		
Click to expand...

I would say Levi Colwil is an outstanding prospect.
I watched him play for Brighton in an FA Cup game recently. He didn't put a foot wrong and he's quick!


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 5, 2022)

Oh my god 

That is outstanding 

Just wow


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 5, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Oh my god

That is outstanding

Just wow
		
Click to expand...

Everton taught him everything he knows 😆

Quality stuff, this could get messy for SK


----------



## Imurg (Dec 5, 2022)

Well..if my Super 6 wasn't already shot to ribbons it certainly is now...
Whats the WC record score..


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 5, 2022)

Lovely goal from paquata


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 5, 2022)

Brazil maybe showing why they are favourites now


----------



## backwoodsman (Dec 5, 2022)

Is it just me, or are the goal celebrations in this world cup becoming more time consuming and more irritating as the competion progresses??


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 5, 2022)

This referee 🙄.


----------



## backwoodsman (Dec 5, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Brazil maybe showing why they are favourites now
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps. But they don't seem to have much opposition in this game?


----------



## fundy (Dec 5, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Brazil have been favourites all the way through this tournament. They have Fred in midfield. Would he even get into England squad? They have Richarlison up front, but he'd never keep Kane out of team at Spurs.

Would be interesting to know how many Brazil players would make England's starting line up? Casemiro maybe, though Rice seems to hold his own. Junior, although England have dangerous wide players, no matter how much we sometimes slag them off. Probably the keeper, although Pickford hasn't really let England down yet.
		
Click to expand...


any advances?


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 5, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Brazil maybe showing why they are favourites now
		
Click to expand...

What for, Oscars?😀


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 5, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			Perhaps. But they don't seem to have much opposition in this game?
		
Click to expand...

No, but you could probably say that any time a team is winning 4-0 at half time. Brazil have certainly shown quality on their part.


----------



## nickjdavis (Dec 5, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Well..if my Super 6 wasn't already shot to ribbons it certainly is now...
Whats the WC record score.. 

Click to expand...

The biggest I ever saw was 9-0 in 1974 Yugoslavia - Zaire....not sure that is the record though. Think someone got 10 in more recent times.


----------



## nickjdavis (Dec 5, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			Is it just me, or are the goal celebrations in this world cup becoming more time consuming and more irritating as the competion progresses??
		
Click to expand...

They are utterly ridiculous....all the subs running on to the pitch.....should be booked for encroaching the field of play without permission. 

Or, as we saw tonight, the player running off and having a second celebration with the subs...pathetic....its like they think they've already won the bloody competition.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 5, 2022)




----------



## woofers (Dec 5, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			Is it just me, or are the goal celebrations in this world cup becoming more time consuming and more irritating as the competion progresses??
		
Click to expand...

Can‘t decide if it’s the celebrations or Ally McCoist that is more annoying..


----------



## chrisd (Dec 5, 2022)

woofers said:



			Can‘t decide if it’s the celebrations or Ally McCoist that is more annoying..
		
Click to expand...

McCoist by some margin !


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 5, 2022)

Aluko

“He has scored 19 goals in 40 matches , you do the math , that’s a goal a game pretty much”

🤦‍♂️


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599859622390558720


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 5, 2022)

Was it a penalty for Brazil?🤔


----------



## Piece (Dec 5, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Oh my god

That is outstanding

Just wow
		
Click to expand...

If you'd said a few years ago that Richie, whilst at Watford, would be leading the line at a World Cup I'd have laughed my head off.


----------



## IanM (Dec 5, 2022)

South Korea set up to play Alan Brazil, rather than the chaps in yellow!


----------



## chrisd (Dec 5, 2022)

IanM said:



			South Korea set up to play Alan Brazil, rather than the chaps in yellow!
		
Click to expand...


That's just nuts !


----------



## backwoodsman (Dec 5, 2022)

woofers said:



			Can‘t decide if it’s the celebrations or Ally McCoist that is more annoying..
		
Click to expand...

Hadn't realised there was was a choice ￼. Celebrations are in second place


----------



## IanM (Dec 5, 2022)

Is that the space adding bug above?
I've been getting it on Android today


----------



## backwoodsman (Dec 5, 2022)

IanM said:



			Is that the space adding bug above?
I've been getting it on Android today
		
Click to expand...

It something irritating - I had the devils job trying to correct it.


----------



## Red devil (Dec 5, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Was it a penalty for Brazil?🤔
		
Click to expand...

Never


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 5, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Was it a penalty for Brazil?🤔
		
Click to expand...

 No, it was the worst ever decision re penalties I’ve seen. 

However, the way I’ve seen decisions being made recently has led me to wonder exactly what the rules are now.

From what I saw, it seems if you are contacted in the box and you fall over, then it’s a penalty. The fact that you have swung your leg to kick the ball upfield and the forward runs from behind into your leg, is irrelevant 
If , however, you are grabbed by the defender wrapping his arms around you and he prevents you moving effectively, then it isn’t a penalty, especially if it is in the context of a corner kick.
Has the law changed? I always thought that handball in the box had to be deliberate, but now it is a penalty if the ball strikes your hand/arm if your limb is in an unnatural position- judged of course in slow motion🙄.

Football,is fast becoming a joke.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 5, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			No, it was the worst ever decision re penalties I’ve seen.

However, the way I’ve seen decisions being made recently has led me to wonder exactly what the rules are now.

From what I saw, it seems if you are contacted in the box and you fall over, then it’s a penalty. The fact that you have swung your leg to kick the ball upfield and the forward runs from behind into your leg, is irrelevant
If , however, you are grabbed by the defender wrapping his arms around you and he prevents you moving effectively, then it isn’t a penalty, especially if it is in the context of a corner kick.
Has the law changed? I always thought that handball in the box had to be deliberate, but now it is a penalty if the ball strikes your hand/arm if your limb is in an unnatural position- judged of course in slow motion🙄.

Football,is fast becoming a joke.
		
Click to expand...

Richarlison got the ball before the defender though, then the defender kicked him. The defender didn't know he was coming in, but that is too bad. Richarlison was too quick, defender unlucky, but it is a penalty all day long. 

To say it was the worst ever decision you have seen us surely an exaggeration to the extreme. The fact that the defender and his team mates didn't really complain, and the pundits on both BBC and ITV were not outraged by it, goes some way to highlight it was a pretty standard decision


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 5, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Richarlison got the ball before the defender though, then the defender kicked him. The defender didn't know he was coming in, but that is too bad. Richarlison was too quick, defender unlucky, but it is a penalty all day long.

To say it was the worst ever decision you have seen us surely an exaggeration to the extreme. The fact that the defender and his team mates didn't really complain, and the pundits on both BBC and ITV were not outraged by it, goes some way to highlight it was a pretty standard decision
		
Click to expand...

Yes it was a pen just.
But a minor glancing blow on his boot, but the play acting is a joke.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 6, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes it was a pen just.
But a minor glancing blow on his boot, but the play acting is a joke.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure if it is by the letter of the law.
But it’s very harsh imo.
How can the defender avoid that from happening?
He’d already pulled the trigger when Richarlisan stuck his leg there.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes it was a pen just.
But a minor glancing blow on his boot, but the play acting is a joke.
		
Click to expand...

Are we going to have this discussion until the end of time? Footballers go down, and they often go down easily to highlight the foul to ref. It has happened for decades, can we not just take it as a given?


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not sure if it is by the letter of the law.
But it’s very harsh imo.
How can the defender avoid that from happening?
He’d already pulled the trigger when Richarlisan stuck his leg there.
		
Click to expand...

It is just bad luck on the defenders part. But, on the strikers part, it is well played. They just managed to get in there and nick the ball. There are plenty of times a player genuinely tries, and thinks, they will win the ball, but end up making a foul as they get there second. 

If you are going to take a big swing to kick ball out of box, best to be aware of what is behind you. If not, taking a bit of a risk, might be best to take a small swing, or get ball under control with 1st touch, shielding it from any opponent that might be behind.


----------



## Neilds (Dec 6, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			Is it just me, or are the goal celebrations in this world cup becoming more time consuming and more irritating as the competion progresses??
		
Click to expand...

They should make a rule that the game is restarted 1 minute after the goal is given (VAR permitting), if the team that scored are still messing around celebrating then it is their look out


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2022)

Neilds said:



			They should make a rule that the game is restarted 1 minute after the goal is given (VAR permitting), if the team that scored are still messing around celebrating then it is their look out
		
Click to expand...

I thought the celebrations were ridiculous, but then maybe it is a sign we are all getting boring and older? Maybe the kids think they are cool. I remember some iconic moments in the past, like Bebeto, Romario and another doing that nursing baby celebration. Many of the footballers are just kids / young men, and so just doing what they do. Getting the coach to join in was a bit weird, but as expected, he did look uncomfortable


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Are we going to have this discussion until the end of time? Footballers go down, and they often go down easily to highlight the foul to ref. It has happened for decades, can we not just take it as a given?
		
Click to expand...

I may be imagining it but since in this comp time is being added for any and every delay have players started getting up quicker and not rolling around quite as much…maybe the managers have realised that the accumulation of minutes that can end up being added at the end of each half is a not a great thing - they’d rather not risk losing a lead they might have than be chasing a goal.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 6, 2022)

backwoodsman said:



			Is it just me, or are the goal celebrations in this world cup becoming more time consuming and more irritating as the competion progresses??
		
Click to expand...

Loving Mbappe’s.  Just so cool and understated, delivered with a great smile as he knows he’s brilliant.👍


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 6, 2022)

My favourite moment in the Brazil v South Korea game was when the Brazil defender went down near the touchline in apparent agony and started rolling around. The Korean got the ball and took a quick throw in, at which point the Brazilian jumped to his feet and sprinted back to try to win the ball.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I may be ima

I may be imagining it but since in this comp time is being added for any and every delay have players started getting up quicker and not rolling around quite as much…maybe the managers have realised that the accumulation of minutes that can end up being added at the end of each half is a not a great thing - they’d rather not risk losing a lead they might have than be chasing a goal.
		
Click to expand...

I like this about the World Cup. Goes back to what we were all saying months ago about time wasting. At the time, I would be happy if the ref added double the time that was apparently wasted. Not gone that far, but the fact some games up to 10 mins or more have been added, it has definitely given time wasters a kick up the backside


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 6, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not sure if it is by the letter of the law.
But it’s very harsh imo.
How can the defender avoid that from happening?
He’d already pulled the trigger when Richarlisan stuck his leg there.
		
Click to expand...

Richarlason got the ball, the defender kicked him . Simple as that.
But I don’t think it was enough to put him down hence it’s a dive.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 6, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Richarlason got the ball, the defender kicked him . Simple as that.
But I don’t think it was enough to put him down hence it’s a dive.
		
Click to expand...

Ok mate chill out,difference of opinion 👍🏻


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 6, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600066036866420736


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Aluko

“He has scored 19 goals in 40 matches , you do the math , that’s a goal a game pretty much”

🤦‍♂️


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599859622390558720

Click to expand...

Only thing missing from this clip is we needed to see Keane and Souness' faces afterwards. They would have been a picture.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 6, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600066036866420736

Click to expand...

For me the big problem is - yes a lot of people hound the women pundits because they're sexist. But on the other hand - the vast majority of the female pundits they've got are genuinely rubbish, so as a counter-argument there's no leg to stand on. You sort of pin your flag on Alex Scott and that's all - rest of them are useless.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 6, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			For me the big problem is - yes a lot of people hound the women pundits because they're sexist. But on the other hand - the vast majority of the female pundits they've got are genuinely rubbish, so as a counter-argument there's no leg to stand on. You sort of pin your flag on Alex Scott and that's all - rest of them are useless.
		
Click to expand...

Big Laura Woods fan 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 6, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Big Laura Woods fan 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

So am I. She's not a pundit though she's a presenter. I was just talking about the pundits, i.e. the ex-players who are supposedly there for their knowledge and ability to express it.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 6, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Only thing missing from this clip is we needed to see Keane and Souness' faces afterwards. They would have been a picture. 

Click to expand...

Souness spouts some absolute nonsense himself. I’m struggling to see why he’s still on the TV as a pundit.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 6, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			So am I. She's not a pundit though she's a presenter. I was just talking about the pundits, i.e. the ex-players who are supposedly there for their knowledge and ability to express it.
		
Click to expand...

Let’s be honest mate there’s more bad ones than good,regardless of sex.
Micah Richards is terrible,but he is funny.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Are we going to have this discussion until the end of time? Footballers go down, and they often go down easily to highlight the foul to ref. It has happened for decades, can we not just take it as a given?
		
Click to expand...

yes it has happened for decades, but nowhere near as frequently as nowadays.
And, more importantly, in those faraway decades, the referees recognised it for what it is - a con, designed to get a free kick from a coming together in a contact sport.
The referees years ago were prepared to make judgements as to whether the coming together was deliberate to commit a foul, or a natural part of the game . Intent , or lack of it,was also judged, rightly.
But now , imo, the referees have little interest in decision making, and aren’t prepared to judge.
And so the result is, the laws begin to change to eliminate the requirement to decide between intent and accident. And spectators , such as yourself accepting this, see play acting and exaggerated antics as the norm. And thus, good football…………my ar…
😀


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 6, 2022)

Neilds said:



			They should make a rule that the game is restarted 1 minute after the goal is given (VAR permitting), if the team that scored are still messing around celebrating then it is their look out
		
Click to expand...

yea, like that.   Minute is too long though, 30 secs will do.
Love to see a team kick off and half the opposition still dancing around a corner flag somewhere. Then, a quick goal………
But please let the camera show the coach and his reaction to the goal scored against him in these circumstances 😂😂


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It is just bad luck on the defenders part. But, on the strikers part, it is well played. They just managed to get in there and nick the ball. There are plenty of times a player genuinely tries, and thinks, they will win the ball, but end up making a foul as they get there second.

If you are going to take a big swing to kick ball out of box, best to be aware of what is behind you. If not, taking a bit of a risk, might be best to take a small swing, or get ball under control with 1st touch, shielding it from any opponent that might be behind.
		
Click to expand...

This appears a classic example of the law changing to accommodate innocent contacts as a foul. If you are right that this was a foul. 
The defender has the ball in his possession and is in the process of kicking the ball.
At no point was he making any effort to obtain possession, or take possession from another who already had it. 
No action of his was proactive in committing a foul. Someone stuck a foot in when a player was legitimately playing the ball. 
Not a foul in my book, nor in any 20th Century decade.
If it is now, shows how the game has deteriorated.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 6, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			My favourite moment in the Brazil v South Korea game was when the Brazil defender went down near the touchline in apparent agony and started rolling around. The Korean got the ball and took a quick throw in, at which point the Brazilian jumped to his feet and sprinted back to try to win the ball.
		
Click to expand...

One wonders why, if you can still get a yellow card for merely taking your shirt off, these cons are not dealt with more severely.
It's blatant cheating but you see it 10 to 20 times in every game and nothing happens....


----------



## Steve Wilkes (Dec 6, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			yea, like that.   Minute is too long though, 30 secs will do.
Love to see a team kick off and half the opposition still dancing around a corner flag somewhere. Then, a quick goal………
But please let the camera show the coach and his reaction to the goal scored against him in these circumstances 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

To be fair I don't mind teams celebrating a goal, that's the beauty of football, scoring a goal as well a brilliant bit of defending, but we are now at the stage of seeing a goal given for a tap of ankles in a far corner of the box with play going nowhere.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			yes it has happened for decades, but nowhere near as frequently as nowadays.
And, more importantly, in those faraway decades, the referees recognised it for what it is - a con, designed to get a free kick from a coming together in a contact sport.
The referees years ago were prepared to make judgements as to whether the coming together was deliberate to commit a foul, or a natural part of the game . Intent , or lack of it,was also judged, rightly.
But now , imo, the referees have little interest in decision making, and aren’t prepared to judge.
And so the result is, the laws begin to change to eliminate the requirement to decide between intent and accident. And spectators , such as yourself accepting this, see play acting and exaggerated antics as the norm. And thus, good football…………my ar…
😀
		
Click to expand...

It is easy to get nostalgic about the good old days, but in reality, they may not have been the good old days at all? I suspect the game has continued to grow and grow compared to where it was decades ago. It certainly has not declined.

People may whine when a foul goes the way they do not want it to be given. Yet, the same people will be crying for a foul when it favours the team they want to win. The defender kicked Richarlison, not the ball, and so it is a foul. Easy decision.

Football is infuriating enough when there is inconsistency in the awarding of free kicks. You are basically asking for more subjectivity, where the referee must decide what contact is enough to send a player down. A player running at speed can easily get knocked over by the slightest of touches (or even no touch if they take avoiding action), simply depending on where their centre of gravity is and the momentum they are running in. Yet, the same player might easily be able to stay on their feet after a huge big whack to the back of the leg.

The game is probably better now because at least referees are more likely to give a foul when a player kicks the player and not the ball. It might also mean that our best footballers are injury free and fit to play more often (whereas in the good old days, they may have been missing more, or forced to play with bigger injuries and only able to play to a fraction of their potential).

Just looking at the reverse of last nights decision. Had Richarlison wound up for a big shot, but the defender nipped in and cleared the ball, resulting in Richarlison kicking the defender instead of the ball, a free kick would most likely be given to the defender. This would not be a shocking decision.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 6, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			yes it has happened for decades, but nowhere near as frequently as nowadays.
And, more importantly, in those faraway decades, the referees recognised it for what it is - a con, designed to get a free kick from a coming together in a contact sport.
The referees years ago were prepared to make judgements as to whether the coming together was deliberate to commit a foul, or a natural part of the game . Intent , or lack of it,was also judged, rightly.
But now , imo, the referees have little interest in decision making, and aren’t prepared to judge.
And so the result is, the laws begin to change to eliminate the requirement to decide between intent and accident. And spectators , such as yourself accepting this, see play acting and exaggerated antics as the norm. And thus, good football…………my ar…
😀
		
Click to expand...

I agree with this.
It’s the consistency for me.
The ref in the England Senegal match would not have given that imo.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 6, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			For me the big problem is - yes a lot of people hound the women pundits because they're sexist. But on the other hand - the vast majority of the female pundits they've got are genuinely rubbish, so as a counter-argument there's no leg to stand on. You sort of pin your flag on Alex Scott and that's all - rest of them are useless.
		
Click to expand...

Heard one of the Women say “ at this level”
But none of them have played at this level.
We can compare the Womens game to the Mens but it just isn’t the same level.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 6, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Heard one of the Women say “ at this level”
But none of them have played at this level.
We can compare the Womens game to the Mens but it just isn’t the same level.
		
Click to expand...

I don't mind any of that if they actually had something interesting and informative to say. For example Butch Harmon hasn't played the Masters but I still respect his views on it! They just need to do more testing with the ex-players before shoving them on TV in my opinion. Just because someone played the game at a decent level doesn't mean they know all there is to know and it definitely doesn't mean they'll be great at articulating. (Goes for women and men equally.)


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 6, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I don't mind any of that if they actually had something interesting and informative to say. For example Butch Harmon hasn't played the Masters but I still respect his views on it! They just need to do more testing with the ex-players before shoving them on TV in my opinion. Just because someone played the game at a decent level doesn't mean they know all there is to know and it definitely doesn't mean they'll be great at articulating. (Goes for women and men equally.)
		
Click to expand...

Yes I agree some of the male ones are shocking.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 6, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I agree some of the male ones are shocking.
		
Click to expand...

Hartson has already proven himself to be an idiot, again. He just said maybe Ziyech didn't fancy the volley because it was on his left foot. Hasn't even done the most basic research of a player who played for Chelsea and most people know is left-footed.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Hartson has already proven himself to be an idiot, again. He just said maybe Ziyech didn't fancy the volley because it was on his left foot. Hasn't even done the most basic research of a player who played for Chelsea and most people know is left-footed. 

Click to expand...

I suspect he is just trying to get through his job by relying heavily on cliches. Someone should document how many of his statements are cliches, and how many rely on specific research on the team / players he is commentating on


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I suspect he is just trying to get through his job by relying heavily on cliches. Someone should document how many of his statements are cliches, and how many rely on specific research on the team / players he is commentating on
		
Click to expand...

I expect you're right. Easiest job in the world. It really annoys me that they get the gig based on the assumption that because they've played the game they know all about it. The games I've heard him on it genuinely sounds like he hasn't watched any football in at least 5 years.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 6, 2022)

The commentary is awful on this match. Flat, monotone voices...


----------



## RichA (Dec 6, 2022)

Knowing that Gavi is going to throw himself on the grass if you so much as brush against his shirt, wouldn't you be inclined to properly go for the ball, rather than attempting to muscle him off it?


----------



## GreiginFife (Dec 6, 2022)

I think there must be a manufacturing issue with the boots professionals wear these days. Since when has studs brushing the top of your boot been THAT painful? 

Having played many seasons at differing levels (one being Sunday League), I've had studs in the leg, foot, groin, back and none of them have been as painful as these fine specimens of athletes are making out.


----------



## Slime (Dec 6, 2022)

On the plus side, Morocco are defending magnificently.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 6, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			I think there must be a manufacturing issue with the boots professionals wear these days. Since when has studs brushing the top of your boot been THAT painful?

Having played many seasons at differing levels (one being Sunday League), I've had studs in the leg, foot, groin, back and none of them have been as painful as these fine specimens of athletes are making out.
		
Click to expand...

In fairness boots are not what they were, they're exceptionally thin material. Studs on the top of your foot certainly does hurt. I personally have a completely black toenail since a good six months ago because of that.  No protection at all.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 6, 2022)

The screams out of the Moroccan guy there.
Moratta was almost pissing himself laughing.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 6, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			In fairness boots are not what they were, they're exceptionally thin material. Studs on the top of your foot certainly does hurt. I personally have a completely black toenail since a good six months ago because of that.  No protection at all.
		
Click to expand...

Get back to nail in leather studs?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 6, 2022)

You wouldn't be afraid to play either of these. Spain hold the ball well but look toothless.


----------



## 3offTheTee (Dec 6, 2022)

Why was that not a pass back 3 mins. ago by the Spanish defender to Simon?


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 6, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You wouldn't be afraid to play either of these. Spain hold the ball well but look toothless.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t know why they persist with Morata, he’s worse than awful (watch him score now 🤣).
I was listening to a Spanish football reporter last week and he said Spain change how they play when Morata plays.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 6, 2022)

3offTheTee said:



			Why was that not a pass back 3 mins. ago by the Spanish defender to Simon?
		
Click to expand...

I guessed deemed more nipping the ball away rather than a pass back. Same outcome but not necessarily deliberate. It could have been given though.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 6, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			I don’t know why they persist with Morata, he’s worse than awful (watch him score now 🤣).
I was listening to a Spanish football reporter last week and he said Spain change how they play when Morata plays.
		
Click to expand...

He is the nearest thing they have to a number 9 though 😳. I was listening to the first 20 minutes of the second half on the radio driving home and they were desperate for Morata to come on to offer a threat. That says something about the players who started upfront 😆. 

Perhaps everyone in Spain wants to be a delicate midfielder now, the next Xavi or Iniesta?


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 6, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He is the nearest thing they have to a number 9 though 😳. I was listening to the first 20 minutes of the second half on the radio driving home and they were desperate for Morata to come on to offer a threat. That says something about the players who started upfront 😆. 

Perhaps everyone in Spain wants to be a delicate midfielder now, the next Xavi or Iniesta?
		
Click to expand...

How many did they score in that first game without a number 9? 😳🤣


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 6, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			I don’t know why they persist with Morata, he’s worse than awful (watch him score now 🤣).
I was listening to a Spanish football reporter last week and he said Spain change how they play when Morata plays.
		
Click to expand...

I always think he looks awful.
But he’s got 30 in 60 for Spain so can’t be that bad.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 6, 2022)

So Giroud is France’s all time top scorer.
He didn’t get his first cap until he was 25.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 6, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			I always think he looks awful.
But he’s got 30 in 60 for Spain so can’t be that bad.
		
Click to expand...

Thats nearly 1 a game.....

Sorry, couldn't let that chance go...


----------



## GreiginFife (Dec 6, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			In fairness boots are not what they were, they're exceptionally thin material. Studs on the top of your foot certainly does hurt. I personally have a completely black toenail since a good six months ago because of that.  No protection at all.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah but did you roll around clutching your foot like you’d just stepped on an IED?


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 6, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			Yeah but did you roll around clutching your foot like you’d just stepped on an IED?
		
Click to expand...

For about 10 seconds yes. No referee in that particular game though so it wasn't for anyone's benefit. 😂

Morocco have been great fun to watch, I really hope they smash it in the penalties. Trouble with Spain is, they always try and walk it in. 😛


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 6, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Thats nearly 1 a game.....

Sorry, couldn't let that chance go...

Click to expand...

😂😂😂


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			For about 10 seconds yes. No referee in that particular game though so it wasn't for anyone's benefit. 😂

*Morocco have been great fun to watch*, I really hope they smash it in the penalties. Trouble with Spain is, they always try and walk it in. 😛
		
Click to expand...

you been watching a different game the last 2 hours?


----------



## Imurg (Dec 6, 2022)

Very commendable to hold a team like Spain for 120+ minutes and Morocco have had their chances.
Spain haven't been poor but they've only been average really..lots of possession and chances but no real bite up front.
Hope Morocco do them on penalties....


----------



## IanM (Dec 6, 2022)

Spain made hard work of this!


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			For about 10 seconds yes. No referee in that particular game though so it wasn't for anyone's benefit. 😂

Morocco have been great fun to watch, I really hope they smash it in the penalties. Trouble with Spain is, they always try and walk it in. 😛
		
Click to expand...

I only had it on in background at work. Morocco looked dangerous, until they got into attacking 3rd, at which point made really bad decisions or big lack of quality. At one point in extra time, they looked to get into a really dangerous position on left wing, at which point 2 Moroccan players tackled each other and just fell over.


----------



## nickjdavis (Dec 6, 2022)

What I like about pens is the cameraderie between the two keepers as they walk towards the goal. Saw it in the Japan Croatia game last night and again this evening.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2022)

Morocco better blooming win , our 30 mil defender now out injured again 

Never like players being injured for club all season then going to world cups.  But got to respect it I guess 

Hasn't played much this season then game every 3 days 

Hope it's not a bad one


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2022)

Sarabia hit both posts now 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 6, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			How many did they score in that first game without a number 9? 😳🤣
		
Click to expand...

That's a fair point 😆


----------



## srixon 1 (Dec 6, 2022)

Is this really happening 😱


----------



## Imurg (Dec 6, 2022)

OMG....it's going to happen......


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2022)

Adios Espana


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 6, 2022)

As per Japan yesterday, stop fannying about and whack it 🙄


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2022)

Cool as you like ..

Amazing!!!!!!


----------



## Dando (Dec 6, 2022)

Got to love biscuits missing a penalty


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2022)

some stones from Hakimi to get out the panenka lol


----------



## nickjdavis (Dec 6, 2022)

Ohhh big balls!!!!!!


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2022)

Apparently Enrique told the Spanish players they'd not get into the squad unless they've hit 1000 penalties.

That looks to have backfired on him, and heaped the pressure on the players. Awful penalties.


----------



## Dando (Dec 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			some stones from Hakimi to get out the panenka lol
		
Click to expand...

he’ll need a wheelbarrow for those bad boys now


----------



## Piece (Dec 6, 2022)




----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2022)

Dando said:



			he’ll need a wheelbarrow for those bad boys now
		
Click to expand...

Also known as Buster to his mates now


----------



## Slime (Dec 6, 2022)

Spain.


----------



## nickjdavis (Dec 6, 2022)

Thats Spain out of our half of the SemiFinals. If we can get past France then I fancy our chances against any of Morocco, Portugal or Switzerland.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Thats Spain out of our half of the SemiFinals. If we can get past France then I fancy our chances against any of Morocco, Portugal or Switzerland.
		
Click to expand...

Don't underestimate Morocco or the swiss


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			you been watching a different game the last 2 hours?
		
Click to expand...

I meant in the tournament as well as this game, and they were definitely more enjoyable than Spain who absolutely bore me to tears. The right team won it! Superb from Morocco. Boufal looks proper decent, it's a shame he didn't quite make it in England.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I only had it on in background at work. Morocco looked dangerous, until they got into attacking 3rd, at which point made really bad decisions or big lack of quality. At one point in extra time, they looked to get into a really dangerous position on left wing, at which point 2 Moroccan players tackled each other and just fell over.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah that was hilarious. All part of their charm!


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I meant in the tournament as well as this game, and they were definitely more enjoyable than Spain who absolutely bore me to tears. The right team won it! Superb from Morocco. Boufal looks proper decent, it's a shame he didn't quite make it in England.
		
Click to expand...

They remind me of an almost team , they play some great football but sometimes the final touch just let's them down 

However they play for each other and my gosh its great


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I only had it on in background at work. Morocco looked dangerous, until they got into attacking 3rd, at which point made really bad decisions or big lack of quality. At one point in extra time, they looked to get into a really dangerous position on left wing, at which point 2 Moroccan players tackled each other and just fell over.
		
Click to expand...

Just seen this..that's what I was trying to say


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 6, 2022)

Great stuff 😀

But now, amongst the spectators, I can’t tell who’s who😂
Spain specs in red shirts, as are Moroccans, 
why are they crying. Cos they won or cos they lost?
😭😭😭😭😭


----------



## BrianM (Dec 6, 2022)

The England vs France game is even bigger now, the winner will be red hot favourites to get to the final.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2022)

Well, Spain really made a statement with their 7-0 win in opening game. Now look at them.

Things can change quickly in football.

Imagine how that kid feels who hit the post for Spain, last kick of extra time. Such fine margins


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2022)

Ronaldo on bench


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 6, 2022)

The Spanish pens were utter dross. They made Stuart Pierce look good


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Imagine how that kid feels who hit the post for Spain, last kick of extra time. Such fine margins
		
Click to expand...

He hit the post twice within a couple of minutes 🤣


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Ronaldo on bench
		
Click to expand...

?…..?.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			?…..?.
		
Click to expand...

He doesn't start...


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Ronaldo on bench
		
Click to expand...

and probably the blower to Piers..........


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			and probably the blower to Piers..........
		
Click to expand...

I'm awaiting a Piers Morgan tweet to slag off the Portuguese coach now


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			He doesn't start...
		
Click to expand...

noted. Querying how that can be?  Regardless of all the off pitch stuff, how can they not start him?

Showing him who’s boss, do you reckon?


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			noted. Querying how that can be?  Regardless of all the off pitch stuff, how can they not start him?

Showing him who’s boss, do you reckon?
		
Click to expand...

Who knows. The manager thought he was good enough to start, supposedly, in games up to now. Or, maybe he wanted an excuse to drop him? His reaction after being benched last game may have given him that excuse.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 6, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			noted. Querying how that can be?  Regardless of all the off pitch stuff, how can they not start him?

Showing him who’s boss, do you reckon?
		
Click to expand...

Didn't he throw, another, hissy fit when subbed the other day? The coach didn’t appreciate it so perhaps it is as you suggest.


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Who knows. The manager thought he was good enough to start, supposedly, in games up to now. Or, maybe he wanted an excuse to drop him? His reaction after being benched last game may have given him that excuse.
		
Click to expand...


The poll back home that 70% wanted him dropped probably helped too


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 6, 2022)

fundy said:



			The poll back home that 70% wanted him dropped probably helped too
		
Click to expand...

I had heard on the radio that the Portugal camp was not a happy place, and you know who was the main cause.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 6, 2022)

Imagine the Portuguese 1-0 down with 15 minutes to go and the coach brings him on and he’s scores the equaliser.
They then go onto win
Who looks stupid then.
Or they are winning and he brings him on just to waste time😀 Piers will be beside himself.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 6, 2022)

Dando said:



			Got to love biscuits missing a penalty
		
Click to expand...

Yes that’s hard to digestive.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 6, 2022)

Anyone else thinking we should just save time and go straight to penalties?


----------



## fundy (Dec 6, 2022)

seems an ok decision now


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 6, 2022)

Well that aged well 😆


----------



## IanM (Dec 6, 2022)

I guess Ronaldo ran down the line to celebrate with the others?


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2022)

Portugal just scored. Camera goes to Ronaldo, he looks fed up.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 6, 2022)

The lad replacing Ronaldo has just justified the coach’s decision.
Keeper should not get beat there.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Portugal just scored. Camera goes to Ronaldo, he looks fed up.
		
Click to expand...

That will have been engineered by TV though let's be honest. I'm sure he celebrated with the others when it hit the net.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			That will have been engineered by TV though let's be honest. I'm sure he celebrated with the others when it hit the net.
		
Click to expand...

That may well be true


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Portugal just scored. Camera goes to Ronaldo, he looks fed up.
		
Click to expand...

That sums up Ronaldo in one minute 

The bloke cares for one person. Ronaldo. (Not even the real Ronaldo)

That's why for me Messi will always be better as he plays for the team 

Hell even neymar does 

His face when bale scored in champ league final and not him 

Priceless and classless


----------



## Imurg (Dec 6, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			That sums up Ronaldo in one minute 

The bloke cares for one person. Ronaldo. (Not even the real Ronaldo)

That's why for me Messi will always be better as he plays for the team 

Hell even neymar does 

His face when bale scored in champ league final and not him 

Priceless and classless
		
Click to expand...

Apparently Messi didn't even know it was his 1000th game the other day....


----------



## BrianM (Dec 6, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			The lad replacing Ronaldo has just justified the coach’s decision.
Keeper should not get beat there.
		
Click to expand...

No keeper is saving that, it’s past him before he knows what’s happened.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			The lad replacing Ronaldo has just justified the coach’s decision.
Keeper should not get beat there.
		
Click to expand...

Are you hinting the famous cliche "keeper should not get beat at near post"? So, anytime in history they get beat at near post, it is automatically the keepers fault?  

The keeper is relatively small anyway, for a keeper. But, in fairness  the shot was absolutely rifled into top corner from close range. I suspect keeper was in a better position to cover the most likely shot, and covering more angles generally. Not that I am a goalkeeping coach, but his positioning didn't seem overly awful.


----------



## BrianM (Dec 6, 2022)

Different Portugal side tonight, they actually look half decent 😂😂


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 6, 2022)

BrianM said:



			No keeper is saving that, it’s past him before he knows what’s happened.
		
Click to expand...

Slow motion replay made it look easy. 😂


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			That sums up Ronaldo in one minute

The bloke cares for one person. Ronaldo. (Not even the real Ronaldo)

That's why for me Messi will always be better as he plays for the team

Hell even neymar does

His face when bale scored in champ league final and not him

Priceless and classless
		
Click to expand...

Yes, but Messi will never be mates with Piers. You win some, and lose some


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 6, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Apparently Messi didn't even know it was his 1000th game the other day....
		
Click to expand...

See IF that's true that's amazing because he just plays for joy


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			That sums up Ronaldo in one minute

The bloke cares for one person. Ronaldo. (Not even the real Ronaldo)

That's why for me Messi will always be better as he plays for the team

Hell even neymar does

His face when bale scored in champ league final and not him

Priceless and classless
		
Click to expand...

Well, may have been hasty in judging him. Ronaldo was down celebrating with team for 2nd goal


----------



## nickjdavis (Dec 6, 2022)

2 mins and 20 secs from the goal going in and kicking off again....add on the celebrations for the first goal and I reckon we've already got 5 mins of added time....lets see.


----------



## Dando (Dec 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yes, but Messi will never be mates with Piers. You win some, and lose some 

Click to expand...

I’m sure Messi is devastated


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			2 mins and 20 secs from the goal going in and kicking off again....add on the celebrations for the first goal and I reckon we've already got 5 mins of added time....lets see.
		
Click to expand...

Hmmm, goal scored at 32:35. Match kicked off again at 33:57. 

That is 1 minute, 22 secs.


----------



## nickjdavis (Dec 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Hmmm, goal scored at 32:35. Match kicked off again at 33:57.

That is 1 minute, 22 secs.
		
Click to expand...

must have misreadh the clock!!!


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 6, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			That sums up Ronaldo in one minute

The bloke cares for one person. Ronaldo. (Not even the real Ronaldo)

That's why for me Messi will always be better as he plays for the team

Hell even neymar does

His face when bale scored in champ league final and not him

Priceless and classless
		
Click to expand...

You’re wrong though,he did smile and celebrate.
Unless you’re watching don’t listen to Chinese whispers


----------



## BrianM (Dec 6, 2022)

Not sure I’ve seen a better Portugal performance, they normally seem to grind it out.


----------



## IanM (Dec 6, 2022)

Entertaining game...but just had a text from a Swiss former colleague,  who is spitting feathers!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Not sure I’ve seen a better Portugal performance, they normally seem to grind it out.
		
Click to expand...

Pace of their counter attack has been key and that’s helped with Ronaldo not being there - the front three are fluid , lots of movement - Ronaldo will still provide goals and focal point at times but he doesn’t help bring out the best of others - especially Felix who is loving the space and freedom and again Fernandes always seems to play better when Ronaldo isn’t around 

It’s a shame that the media can’t focus on the team as opposed to the ego


----------



## nickjdavis (Dec 6, 2022)

Portuguese manager has got that substitution all wrong.

The individual accolade that Ramos deserved for his hat trick was swamped by the cheers for Ronaldo coming on.

Manager should have brought Ramos off as a lone substitution with maybe 10 min to go so he got the cheers he deserved.


----------



## yandabrown (Dec 6, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Portuguese manager has got that substitution all wrong.

The individual accolade that Ramos deserved for his hat trick was swamped by the cheers for Ronaldo coming on.

Manager should have brought Ramos off as a lone substitution with maybe 10 min to go so he got the cheers he deserved.
		
Click to expand...

Or perhaps he's trying to make sure he doesn't inherit some of the same ego?


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 6, 2022)

Feeling good about my little Portugal bet at 14-1 from a couple of weeks ago. 😁


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Pace of their counter attack has been key and that’s helped with Ronaldo not being there - the front three are fluid , lots of movement - Ronaldo will still provide goals and focal point at times but he doesn’t help bring out the best of others - especially Felix who is loving the space and freedom and again Fernandes always seems to play better when Ronaldo isn’t around

It’s a shame that the media can’t focus on the team as opposed to the ego
		
Click to expand...

Ironic, as the first paragraph of your post was about Ronaldo


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 6, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Are you hinting the famous cliche "keeper should not get beat at near post"? So, anytime in history they get beat at near post, it is automatically the keepers fault? 

The keeper is relatively small anyway, for a keeper. But, in fairness  the shot was absolutely rifled into top corner from close range. I suspect keeper was in a better position to cover the most likely shot, and covering more angles generally. Not that I am a goalkeeping coach, but his positioning didn't seem overly awful.
		
Click to expand...

The one thing I never understand in this situation is the keeper always goes down at the knees .
Losing height is the worst thing you can do.
It must be a reflex thing as you say expecting him to go across him.
Like Seaman in the Ryan Giggs one he went down to lower his hands I think.

Portugal lad did hit it well but keepers are always blamed at the near post.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 6, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			The one thing I never understand in this situation is the keeper always goes down at the knees .
Losing height is the worst thing you can do.
It must be a reflex thing as you say expecting him to go across him.
Like Seaman in the Ryan Giggs one he went down to lower his hands I think.

Portugal lad did hit it well but keepers are always blamed at the near post.
		
Click to expand...

It'll be so they can spring upwards, or sideways, to hopefully make a save. It is an athletic position. If they stayed tall with straighter legs, they would be less explosive. 

The last goal was a weird one from the goalkeeper though. Seemed to get completely wrong footed, even though there was no deflection


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 7, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It'll be so they can spring upwards, or sideways, to hopefully make a save. It is an athletic position. If they stayed tall with straighter legs, they would be less explosive.

The last goal was a weird one from the goalkeeper though. Seemed to get completely wrong footed, even though there was no deflection
		
Click to expand...

He was covering his near post 😂


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 7, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			He was covering his near post 😂
		
Click to expand...

That was my first thought as well. Scared of all those guys who might be critical of him letting a thunderbolt into top near post corner, so sacrificed the entire other side of goal to stop that happening


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 7, 2022)

Quite a lot of criticism of goalkeeping in the last few matches, I see on here.
Some of these shots are going like the clappers, also tend to swerve.
The first Portuguese goal was past him before his brain knew where it was going.
it was also in the very top corner .…I’ll wager that it was so in the corner that it could not be reached by a goalie even if he had half an hours notice😀

Hardest job on a football field…goalkeeping.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 7, 2022)

I honestly don't think the keeper could have done much with any of them, except for the 6th goal. He seemed to almost lose his footing and fail to get himself set. But maybe he'd just given up by then.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Quite a lot of criticism of goalkeeping in the last few matches, I see on here.
Some of these shots are going like the clappers, also tend to swerve.
The first Portuguese goal was past him before his brain knew where it was going.
it was also in the very top corner .…I’ll wager that it was so in the corner that it could not be reached by a goalie even if he had half an hours notice😀

Hardest job on a football field…goalkeeping.
		
Click to expand...

Yes Trippier said the ball is “lighter and does move quite a bit.”
Mendy missed one right at him from Kane.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 7, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes Trippier said the ball is “lighter and does move quite a bit.”
		
Click to expand...

Interestingly, a football must Weigh no less than 410g (14oz) and no more than 450g (16oz) at the start of the match 

The weight will be the same as ever but perhaps the aerodynamics makes it feel lighter? At past finals they have had some real wobbly balls but this tournament seems less affected. Perhaps the atmospherics there are alsohaving an impact, we know golf balls travel further in warmer conditions etc


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 7, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes Trippier said the ball is “lighter and does move quite a bit.”
Mendy missed one right at him from Kane.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, if you looked down the line of that shot, the ball was going dead straight, and at the last millisecond seemed to shift to the right (as looking from Kane's angle). Can see why the keeper spilled it.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 7, 2022)

Boo - two days without matches.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 7, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Boo - two days without matches.
		
Click to expand...

Lightweight footballers


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 7, 2022)

What's all the nonsense with Sterling?

One minute the story is his family have been robbed at gunpoint, the next they returned home to find a few things missing. While obviously upsetting something doesn't quite add up. You don't leave the World Cup and miss two huge games unless theres more to it than a simple break in.


----------



## jim8flog (Dec 7, 2022)




----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2022)

4LEX said:



			What's all the nonsense with Sterling?

One minute the story is his family have been robbed at gunpoint, the next they returned home to find a few things missing. While obviously upsetting something doesn't quite add up. You don't leave the World Cup and miss two huge games unless theres more to it than a simple break in.
		
Click to expand...

Very strange one to make up. Where did the armed robbers story come from.
His family were with him at the time.
News showed them sitting in the stands!
Maybe Netflix do his press releases.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 7, 2022)

4LEX said:



			What's all the nonsense with Sterling?

One minute the story is his family have been robbed at gunpoint, the next they returned home to find a few things missing. While obviously upsetting something doesn't quite add up. *You don't leave the World Cup and miss two huge games unless theres more to it than a simple break in*.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe you wouldn't, or others. But, for other families, maybe if there has been a break in it has caused great distress for the family currently living at the home (in this case, his wife and kids). Maybe it has been incredibly shocking to them, and they are fearful that the criminals might even return. Raheem has been given the news, and now he feels completely helpless. He is out in Qatar kicking a football about, while his family are at home distressed about what has happened. So, maybe he feels like he needs to be at home to share that burden with them, help take responsibility that it can be better avoided in the future. Once he feels confident that his family feel safe again, then maybe he can consider leaving them to play football.

I don't know, we're all different. But I suspect some husbands would put their family ahead of a football tournament, even if others think their issues are only trivial. I suspect this is what Sterling and Southgate were talking about before he left, should he go or should he stay. And, both parties agreed that he should go, apparently.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 7, 2022)

4LEX said:



			What's all the nonsense with Sterling?

One minute the story is his family have been robbed at gunpoint, the next they returned home to find a few things missing. While obviously upsetting something doesn't quite add up. You don't leave the World Cup and miss two huge games unless theres more to it than a simple break in.
		
Click to expand...

Yep something not right with the whole thing...initial stories suggested an armed robbery with the family present.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Yep something not right with the whole thing...initial stories suggested an armed robbery with the family present.
		
Click to expand...

Might be his parents or other relatives in the house.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 7, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Might be his parents or other relatives in the house.
		
Click to expand...

I think the police report said they returned from holiday to find items missing. I do wonder if the initial reports were certainly enough for him to return home as to be present in an armed robbery would be terrifying. Mind you the violation of being burgled must be pretty horrific.


----------



## Slime (Dec 7, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Quite a lot of criticism of goalkeeping in the last few matches, I see on here.
Some of these shots are going like the clappers, also tend to swerve.
The first Portuguese goal was past him before his brain knew where it was going.
it was also in the very top corner .…I’ll wager that it was so in the corner that it could not be reached by a goalie even if he had half an hours notice😀

*Hardest job on a football field…goalkeeping.*

Click to expand...

No, I think it's refereeing ................................ by a distance.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			I think the police report said they returned from holiday to find items missing. I do wonder if the initial reports were certainly enough for him to return home as to be present in an armed robbery would be terrifying. Mind you the violation of being burgled must be pretty horrific.
		
Click to expand...


Burglary is one of the worst crimes imo.
It’s usually sentimental stuff that’s taken.
Anyone caught should be jailed no exceptions. I would go further but not allowed in this country.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Slime (Dec 7, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Boo - two days without matches.
		
Click to expand...

You could always stream Cadiz FC vs Man Utd which kicks off this evening.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2022)

Slime said:



			No, I think it's refereeing ................................ by a distance.
		
Click to expand...

 Have you ever cut the grass on a pitch ? ( Handmower)
Getting all those white lines nice and straight.
Reffing is a piece of p….


----------



## Slime (Dec 7, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Burglary is one of the worst crimes imo.
It’s usually sentimental stuff that’s taken.
Anyone caught should be jailed no exceptions. I would go further but not allowed in this country.
		
Click to expand...

Ideally, armed robbers would be jailed for a 1st offence and executed for a 2nd offence, but this isn't an ideal world.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 7, 2022)

4LEX said:



			What's all the nonsense with Sterling?

One minute the story is his family have been robbed at gunpoint, the next they returned home to find a few things missing. While obviously upsetting something doesn't quite add up. You don't leave the World Cup and miss two huge games unless theres more to it than a simple break in.
		
Click to expand...

A burglary being experienced in these circumstances is more than the usual . And they are bad enough.
Women, particularly, feel their privacy and dignity has been violated. To say it is unsettling is very much an understatement. I’ve known instances where the women have insisted on a house move after experiencing a burglary. 
It is a serious matter inasmuch that it is always possible that the owner comes home whilst the burglar is there, with the potent  for possible violence etc.
It is not regarded now, unfortunately, as seriously by society as it used to be. And the attitude of some Police Forces does not help. ( there is now pressure for that to change which in some Forces is working)

Now , in Sterling’s case, these circumstances are somewhat enhanced . No doubt his house was burgled because it was known who lived there, and where he was.  Therefore his wife and children were without his presence and protection, and I think she would feel especially vulnerable and would want him to return.

I certainly don’t feel it unreasonable that he did.

As to the different reports of the nature of the burglary, then it can be put down to the “accuracy” of the British Press. 
“ Send three and four pence….etc”


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 9, 2022)

I hope we don’t give France & Mbappe too much respect.
We’ve got plenty of goals in our team and got a better squad imo.


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 9, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			I hope we don’t give France & Mbappe too much respect.
We’ve got plenty of goals in our team and got a better squad imo.
		
Click to expand...

I’ve seen written on a few websites that England have better individuals than France barring Mbappe of course.
It matters not one bit, France are a better team.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 9, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			I’ve seen written on a few websites that England have better individuals than France barring Mbappe of course.
It matters not one bit, France are a better team.
		
Click to expand...

Don’t think there’s much between us tbh.
Greizman is having a good tournament tho.
Let them worry about Foden,Saka,Bellingham…. 🤷‍♂️
Just hope we don’t sit back.
Aren’t we the top scorers?


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2022)

If you have an Athletic sub read the "alternative world cup analysis" by Juanmo Lillo (used to be one of Peps assistants). Interesting and on the mark (at times) rant


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 9, 2022)

I'm happy it's back - been a long two days with nowt to watch!


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 9, 2022)

Every round of 16 match was won by the team first alphabetically. If this continues, the semis will be Argentina v Brazil and England v Morocco. Sadly, England will lose to Argentina in the final.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2022)

Shocking game - Croatia keeper doing well 

Dive of the tournament from Antony - should be in the book for it


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Shocking game - Croatia keeper doing well

Dive of the tournament from Antony - should be in the book for it
		
Click to expand...

Surprised he didn't, it seemed Oliver was pretty convinced it was a dive.


----------



## Neilds (Dec 9, 2022)

Do Croatia realise this is a knockout game? Seem to be playing for the draw


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 9, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Do Croatia realise this is a knockout game? Seem to be playing for the draw
		
Click to expand...

I suspect they are happy to take their chances with penalties. Not a great approach, certainly not for the neutral, but this way of playing worked well for them last tournament. You wouldn't pay to watch them though......


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Shocking game - Croatia keeper doing well

Dive of the tournament from Antony - should be in the book for it
		
Click to expand...

I don't think I've seen a booking for diving at all this tournament. I wonder if the refs have been told not to bother? A shame if that's the case.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 9, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't think I've seen a booking for diving at all this tournament. I wonder if the refs have been told not to bother? A shame if that's the case.
		
Click to expand...

My mate was saying the same the other day. Not about diving, but yellows in general. He said referees didn't seem to be giving out as many yellows as normal. Don't know if that is true, but if it is, maybe they've been asked to do this so less players are suspended for following games?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 9, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't think I've seen a booking for diving at all this tournament. I wonder if the refs have been told not to bother? A shame if that's the case.
		
Click to expand...

Tbf how many bookings do we see for diving in the Premier league?


----------



## Imurg (Dec 9, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Do Croatia realise this is a knockout game? Seem to be playing for the draw
		
Click to expand...

Now they've got to go for it....


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 9, 2022)

All the top goal scorer records for Country are getting beaten.
It’s definitely easier now.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 9, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Tbf how many bookings do we see for diving in the Premier league?
		
Click to expand...

They have phases of dishing them out, certainly for clear ones. There have been some obvious ones at this tournament that they have plain ignored.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 9, 2022)

Just given a foul because Brazilian falls down in the box. It was two jumping up for the same ball.
Still, referee standards are constant🙄


----------



## srixon 1 (Dec 9, 2022)

2 hours of durge watching this.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 9, 2022)

Pundit (is it Danny Murphy?)..."that's why you have to keep him on, to do things like that" closely followed by "I didn't see him doing that"!


----------



## srixon 1 (Dec 9, 2022)

Get in.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 9, 2022)

Beat me to it - GET IN!!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 9, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Pundit (is it Danny Murphy?)..."that's why you have to keep him on, to do things like that" closely followed by "I didn't see him doing that"!
		
Click to expand...

Jermaine Jenas I think.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 9, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Pundit (is it Danny Murphy?)..."that's why you have to keep him on, to do things like that" closely followed by "I didn't see him doing that"!
		
Click to expand...

😂😂
Thick as 🐷 💩 some of these pundits


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 9, 2022)

Penalty shoot out, and as normal, referee has to spend an age explaining the rules to both goalkeepers


----------



## Imurg (Dec 9, 2022)

Oh my....


----------



## srixon 1 (Dec 9, 2022)

Brasil not dancing anymore 🤣


----------



## Imurg (Dec 9, 2022)

Boom


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2022)

😂😂 how great is it that Neymar won’t win 😂


----------



## upsidedown (Dec 9, 2022)

That's the way to take penalties


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 9, 2022)

Get in!
Poor poor game management by Brazil at the end of extra time but who cares 🎉


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 9, 2022)

Oh my. Serves em right for not going for the second


----------



## Imurg (Dec 9, 2022)

They need to put a stop to the stuttering run ups once and for all.....I thought they had but obviously not.
It's not fair on the keeper...


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 9, 2022)

I have Brazil in sweepstake, yet very happy with this result.


----------



## rudebhoy (Dec 9, 2022)

Good result for England 😒


----------



## Piece (Dec 9, 2022)

🫣😳😲😆


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2022)

Somewhere, Roy Keane is having one almighty chuckle to himself


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 9, 2022)

Byeee Brazil! 

Cry me a river Neymar, if you don’t have the bottle to take a pen you don’t deserve to go through


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Byeee Brazil!

Cry me a river Neymar, if you don’t have the bottle to take a pen you don’t deserve to go through
		
Click to expand...

Nothing to do with bottle mate,he’d have taken the 5th.


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Byeee Brazil!

Cry me a river Neymar, if you don’t have the bottle to take a pen you don’t deserve to go through
		
Click to expand...


he was taking the last one, not sure hes short of bottle


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Byeee Brazil!

Cry me a river Neymar, if you don’t have the bottle to take a pen you don’t deserve to go through
		
Click to expand...

Bit harsh, I'm sure he was taking the final one


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Byeee Brazil!

Cry me a river Neymar, if you don’t have the bottle to take a pen you don’t deserve to go through
		
Click to expand...

He should have stepped up and taken the first but more glory in taking the 5th


----------



## Dando (Dec 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			he was taking the last one, not sure hes short of bottle
		
Click to expand...

Taking the last one like Ronaldo to get the glory


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 9, 2022)

I cant belive the number of crap penalties at this World Cup.


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2022)

Dando said:



			Taking the last one like Ronaldo to get the glory
		
Click to expand...


or thats the agreed order by the coach but doesnt fit the narrative as well


----------



## SteveW86 (Dec 9, 2022)

I genuinely think the winner of England v France goes on to win the tournament


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He should have stepped up and taken the first but more glory in taking the 5th
		
Click to expand...

And that’s the big thing! Everyone’s commenting saying he takes the fifth, fifth means f all if anyone misses before. Best takers should go first, stop all this glory hunting.


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 9, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			I genuinely think the winner of England v France goes on to win the tournament
		
Click to expand...

Portugal look good. But one of the 3 I agree!


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 9, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			I genuinely think the winner of England v France goes on to win the tournament
		
Click to expand...

All about Morocco lol


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Bit harsh, I'm sure he was taking the final one
		
Click to expand...

Not harsh at all. Happily danced his way into the quarter finals but doesn’t step up early and get his peno done - after the glory of the 5th and being the hero / making the headlines - glad he never got to take it. Byeeeeeee Neymarrrr go back to your farmers league


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Not harsh at all. Happily danced his way into the quarter finals but doesn’t step up early and get his peno done - after the glory of the 5th and being the hero / making the headlines - glad he never got to take it. Byeeeeeee Neymarrrr go back to your farmers league
		
Click to expand...

Still more likable than the fake Ronaldo


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Still more likable than the fake Ronaldo
		
Click to expand...

I don’t like either of them 😂 what’s fake about Ronaldo? (Other than his dives - although Neymar is probably worse at that)


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I don’t like either of them 😂 what’s fake about Ronaldo? (Other than his dives - although Neymar is probably worse at that)
		
Click to expand...

The REAL Ronaldo was much better .. sod CR7


----------



## Dando (Dec 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Not harsh at all. Happily danced his way into the quarter finals but doesn’t step up early and get his peno done - after the glory of the 5th and being the hero / making the headlines - glad he never got to take it. Byeeeeeee Neymarrrr go back to your farmers league
		
Click to expand...

Not a fan?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601273467197849606


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			The REAL Ronaldo was much better .. sod CR7
		
Click to expand...

I mean Ronaldo was absolute class, but CR7 is top 5 best of all time, top 2 for many.


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 9, 2022)

Dando said:



			Not a fan?
		
Click to expand...

Good player, absolute princess


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601273467197849606

Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 9, 2022)

What a great end to that game. Delighted to see Brazil go out! The arrogance they showed with their pathetic dancing the other day summed them up - bunch of clowns. You do that stuff after you win the trophy. Forget about their 'culture', which used to be winning World Cups, now it's behaving like giant manbabies. 

As for Neymar.......LOL!


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Not harsh at all. Happily danced his way into the quarter finals but doesn’t step up early and get his peno done - after the glory of the 5th and being the hero / making the headlines - glad he never got to take it. Byeeeeeee Neymarrrr go back to your farmers league
		
Click to expand...

This is the narrative you are writing in your own head though. You have no idea that he wanted to take the final penalty purely for the glory. You have no idea that the coach, and his team mates stood aside and agreed he should have the glory. It is only a narrative that sounds nice when people don't particularly like a player, and sounds great in hindsight.

For all you know, the team agreed to have their best penalty taker last. Not for the glory, but because they felt the pressure could be at it's most at that point. After all, the first penalty is never do or die, but the 5th penalty often is.

We have seen countless times the best penalty taker go last. Only if that team lose, it is criticised. Funnily enough, never is if that team win.

It is funny, and sort of sad, how we all love to rip people to pieces for the most trivial issues. It is almost like we take more pleasure in the pain of the Brazilians, than the pleasure we get from the joy of the Croatians


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			This is the narrative you are writing in your own head though. You have no idea that he wanted to take the final penalty purely for the glory. You have no idea that the coach, and his team mates stood aside and agreed he should have the glory. It is only a narrative that sounds nice when people don't particularly like a player, and sounds great in hindsight.

For all you know, the team agreed to have their best penalty taker last. Not for the glory, but because they felt the pressure could be at it's most at that point. After all, the first penalty is never do or die, but the 5th penalty often is.

We have seen countless times the best penalty taker go last. Only if that team lose, it is criticised. Funnily enough, never is if that team win.

It is funny, and sort of sad, how we all love to rip people to pieces for the most trivial issues. It is almost like we take more pleasure in the pain of the Brazilians, than the pleasure we get from the joy of the Croatians
		
Click to expand...

Theres absolutely no doubt Neymar wanted the glory that he hoped would come with the final spot kick. His entire career is one giant attention seeking exercise. It's a shame as he's without doubt the most naturally talented player over the last decade, bar Messi and Ronaldo. The move to PSG coupled with his ego growing out of control has seen him literally waste the peak years of his career doing nothing bar the odd decent performance in the CL when he makes an effort.

I don't think many on here are huge Croatia fans either as they're a pretty boring and robotic side. Modric is the only one you'd pay to watch as he's a Rolls Royce.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 9, 2022)

4LEX said:



			Theres absolutely no doubt Neymar wanted the glory that he hoped would come with the final spot kick. His entire career is one giant attention seeking exercise. It's a shame as he's without doubt the most naturally talented player over the last decade, bar Messi and Ronaldo. The move to PSG coupled with his ego growing out of control has seen him literally waste the peak years of his career doing nothing bar the odd decent performance in the CL when he makes an effort.

I don't think many on here are huge Croatia fans either as they're a pretty boring and robotic side. Modric is the only one you'd pay to watch as he's a Rolls Royce.
		
Click to expand...

I have no doubt he would have loved the glory. I have no doubt that ANY player going last would love the glory. We all would.

However, there is plenty of doubt that the very reason he was going last was purely so he could have the glory, even if it was felt that was worse for the team.


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 9, 2022)

You can actually change the order of the kickers or the kickers during the shoot out - theres no official list handed to the ref like a starting line up. So seeing what was unfolding I've no idea why he didn't step up. Either saving it for the glory one later down the line or bottled it.


----------



## yandabrown (Dec 9, 2022)

Have to say that the Argentine supporters really do seem to bring something to the party


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I have no doubt he would have loved the glory. I have no doubt that ANY player going last would love the glory. We all would.

However, there is plenty of doubt that the very reason he was going last was purely so he could have the glory, even if it was felt that was worse for the team.
		
Click to expand...

In hindsight though there’s always a chance you might not get to your fifth taker.
I think your right there is enormous pressure on 4&5th takers.


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 9, 2022)

Wife in the last 2 minutes…

“So what happens to the teams that win these games”…

“Is that Messi, is he from Argentina?”…

And she wonders why I’m going to the pub to watch it with my mates tomorrow night 🤣


----------



## Captainron (Dec 9, 2022)

Happy that Brazil are out. Made my evening.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			In hindsight though there’s always a chance you might not get to your fifth taker.
I think your right there is enormous pressure on 4&5th takers.
		
Click to expand...

Swings and roundabouts. Best penalty taker goes first, your 5th penalty taker could be Maguire (from England's perspective). Even if the best guy goes first, if he misses (which happens), does that really unnerve the rest of the side? And if he scores, I'd imagine most would be just as nervous, even if someone else had gone first?

The key thing would be deciding the order amongst the team. Agreeing that. It'll depend how good everyone is, and what their temperament is like.

If I had to take a penalty, knowing others are better than me, I would personally prefer to go first. I'd be nervous, but I would be 10 times more nervous taking the last one, not wanting to be the duffer who messes it up for everyone who scored before me.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 9, 2022)

That pass is ridiculous


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2022)

Superb goal that. This Messi kid got some techers


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 9, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			That pass is ridiculous
		
Click to expand...

Somebody in this forum will.be smashing their TV at half time, not wanting to hear the pundits drooling over Messi


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			Superb goal that. This Messi kid got some techers 

Click to expand...

 With his on the ball technical ability he could play for another decade and just walk around. Still would out class most


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			Superb goal that. This Messi kid got some techers 

Click to expand...

But can he do it against Stoke on a December Tuesday night 🤷‍♂️


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But can he do it against Stoke on a December Tuesday night 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...


Been the downfall of many, especially Arsenal players


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He should have stepped up and taken the first but more glory in taking the 5th
		
Click to expand...

Maybe,but a lot of the time you see best go 1st & 5th.
Would you be so critical if you didn’t dislike him so much? 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Slime (Dec 9, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Maybe,but a lot of the time you see best go 1st & 5th.
Would you be so critical if you didn’t dislike him so much? 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

He's their regular penalty taker, he should have taken the 1st one, no doubt.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 9, 2022)

Slime said:



			He's their regular penalty taker, he should have taken the 1st one, no doubt.
		
Click to expand...

I agree.
Personally I’d have best penalty taker 1st.
2nd best 2nd & so on.
But for some reason they don’t always do it like that.
Maybe they over think it.
To say he bottled it is ridiculous.
It could be an ego thing tho.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 9, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			I agree.
Personally I’d have best penalty taker 1st.
2nd best 2nd & so on.
But for some reason they don’t always do it like that.
Maybe they over think it.
To say he bottled it is ridiculous.
It could be an ego thing tho.
		
Click to expand...

Prob cuz when it gets down to 5th it becomes sudden death most time so u need your top dog 

If u go first and miss you can be bailed out


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 9, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Maybe,but a lot of the time you see best go 1st & 5th.
Would you be so critical if you didn’t dislike him so much? 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

It a funny one. In the African Cup of Nations final, if I remember rightly, Mane went last for Senegal and Salah was due to go last for Egypt. Mane got the winner, Salah never got chance to take his.

I wonder if the same people were so quick to say the reason for this was because both players were a bunch of glory hunters!? Or, maybe it is just a lazy argument when they simply don't like a player, but it is a perfectly reasonable when they like the player?


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			This is the narrative you are writing in your own head though. You have no idea that he wanted to take the final penalty purely for the glory. You have no idea that the coach, and his team mates stood aside and agreed he should have the glory. It is only a narrative that sounds nice when people don't particularly like a player, and sounds great in hindsight.

For all you know, the team agreed to have their best penalty taker last. Not for the glory, but because they felt the pressure could be at it's most at that point. After all, the first penalty is never do or die, but the 5th penalty often is.

We have seen countless times the best penalty taker go last. Only if that team lose, it is criticised. Funnily enough, never is if that team win.

It is funny, and sort of sad, how we all love to rip people to pieces for the most trivial issues. It is almost like we take more pleasure in the pain of the Brazilians, than the pleasure we get from the joy of the Croatians
		
Click to expand...

We don’t know. They don’t actually think Neymar was the 5th taker - or so I’ve read on Twitter - so what’s your argument now? 

I do take more pleasure at the pain of the Brazilians at the World Cup. What’s wrong with that? They’ve won it 5 times……. That’s enough for a long while


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			We don’t know. They don’t actually think Neymar was the 5th taker - or so I’ve read on Twitter - so what’s your argument now?

I do take more pleasure at the pain of the Brazilians at the World Cup. What’s wrong with that? They’ve won it 5 times……. That’s enough for a long while
		
Click to expand...

Hang on a second, your the one making the argument, I am simply countering your logic.

You have just spent ages telling us Neymar was taking the last penalty as he is a selfish glory hunter. Now you are suggesting he wasnt taking one at all. So, where is YOUR argument now?


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			We don’t know. They don’t actually think Neymar was the 5th taker - or so I’ve read on Twitter - so what’s your argument now?

I do take more pleasure at the pain of the Brazilians at the World Cup. What’s wrong with that? They’ve won it 5 times……. That’s enough for a long while
		
Click to expand...


I can only imagine the pile on if Phil had said Twitter said Neymar wasnt taking the 5th penalty so it must be true lol


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			It a funny one. In the African Cup of Nations final, if I remember rightly, Mane went last for Senegal and Salah was due to go last for Egypt. Mane got the winner, Salah never got chance to take his.

I wonder if the same people were so quick to say the reason for this was because both players were a bunch of glory hunters!? Or, maybe it is just a lazy argument when they simply don't like a player, but it is a perfectly reasonable when they like the player?
		
Click to expand...

It’ll definitely be different for Salah,no arrogance with him 😂


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			I can only imagine the pile on if Phil had said Twitter said Neymar wasnt taking the 5th penalty so it must be true lol
		
Click to expand...

Imagine it.
He’s so hard done by 🎻 😂


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 9, 2022)

Somebody needs to tell this Netherlands side that you don’t win because you made most passes.
All making passes that are easiest for them without regard for the objective…
put the ball into the back of the net.
Much as I’d like to see Argentina and Brazil on the same plane😀, I doubt that will happen.


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Hang on a second, your the one making the argument, I am simply countering your logic.

You have just spent ages telling us Neymar was taking the last penalty as he is a selfish glory hunter. Now you are suggesting he wasnt taking one at all. So, where is YOUR argument now?
		
Click to expand...

You’re funny, you love an argument. 

My first post was obviously before I read that tweet. 

My point stands about taking an early penalty though, why not take it early and get your team ahead rather than wait?


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 9, 2022)

Statistically the 5th taker doesn’t take a penalty half the time. So leaving the big man to take it really is a silly move


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			You’re funny, you love an argument.

My first post was obviously before I read that tweet.

My point stands about taking an early penalty though, why not take it early and get your team ahead rather than wait?
		
Click to expand...

You first post made a point that was very sure that he was a glory hunter. I already made my points as to why this was almost certainly unlikely to be the case. You, and others were still adamant he was a glory hunter, my logic meant nothing. Despite the fact we could go back in time, and document hundreds of occasions the best player has gone last. 

Then, suddenly, you read on twitter he may not have been taking one. Might not be true, but you then used that as enough evidence to suggest it blows my argument out of the water. Where, in reality, it blows your glory hunter argument out of the water. 

It just reinforces that some are desperate to use any reason they can to fit an agenda. Don't get me wrong, I am not a Neymar fan. I just think it gets a bit mental when certain things are completely twisted to paint a picture. Not just in football, but in everything in life it seems.


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			You first post made a point that was very sure that he was a glory hunter. I already made my points as to why this was almost certainly unlikely to be the case. You, and others were still adamant he was a glory hunter, my logic meant nothing. Despite the fact we could go back in time, and document hundreds of occasions the best player has gone last.

Then, suddenly, you read on twitter he may not have been taking one. Might not be true, but you then used that as enough evidence to suggest it blows my argument out of the water. Where, in reality, it blows your glory hunter argument out of the water.

It just reinforces that some are desperate to use any reason they can to fit an agenda. Don't get me wrong, I am not a Neymar fan. I just think it gets a bit mental when certain things are completely twisted to paint a picture. Not just in football, but in everything in life it seems.
		
Click to expand...

I think you overthink things a bit…. You get like this in every thread. 😂


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I think you overthink things a bit…. You get like this in every thread. 😂
		
Click to expand...

And actually - my first post stated he didn’t have the bottle to take a pen - it stands too. He could have taken the 4th which was a must score - he didn’t. Could have taken 1-3 but he didn’t. Glory hunting 5th or no pen at all, it’s embarrassing that Neymar didn’t take a pen.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2022)

Seriously - still going on about the penalties 😂


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 9, 2022)

If ever there was a case for a VAR check, then that pen decision was.
Was the foot taken away from the attacker?
From what Ive seen, it isn’t too clear.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			If ever there was a case for a VAR check, then that pen decision was.
Was the foot taken away from the attacker?
From what Ive seen, it isn’t too clear.
		
Click to expand...

VAR check every penalty - looked clear as day to me


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			And actually - my first post stated he didn’t have the bottle to take a pen - it stands too. He could have taken the 4th which was a must score - he didn’t. Could have taken 1-3 but he didn’t. Glory hunting 5th or no pen at all, it’s embarrassing that Neymar didn’t take a pen.
		
Click to expand...

And you say I am over thinking? 

I think the issue is some don't think enough before opening with some outlandish claim. Then they spend the next 2 or 3 pages thinking of ways to dig themselves out of a hole


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2022)

Well it’s got interesting now


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seriously - still going on about the penalties 😂
		
Click to expand...

Imagine banging on about something for so long hey Phil 😂


----------



## IanM (Dec 9, 2022)

Ah, the Argies..... you know it's coming


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2022)

Parades a touch lucky there - could have gone 

Not sure why this ref is always touted as one of the best , he has always been shocking


----------



## Dando (Dec 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I think you overthink things a bit…. You get like this in every thread. 😂
		
Click to expand...

He could start an argument in an empty room


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2022)

Mental 😂😂😂 what a brilliant free kick


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2022)

Get in you orange beauties, what a free kick that is


----------



## Slime (Dec 9, 2022)

What a magnificently worked free kick, thoroughly deserving of a goal.


----------



## srixon 1 (Dec 9, 2022)

I played in a cup final (pub team) and I was the goalie. It went to penalties. After five pens it was all level and still level after 10 pens each had been taken. I had to take one and if I missed we lost. Most nerve wracking thing I’ve ever done. Imagine doing that when your whole nation is watching. Luckily I scored my pen and we went on to win after I saved one of their penalties.


----------



## IanM (Dec 9, 2022)

Crikey!


----------



## Dando (Dec 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Mental 😂😂😂 what a brilliant free kick
		
Click to expand...

It was certainly different


----------



## IainP (Dec 9, 2022)

Mind, if it does end up Croatia v Netherlands,  what is the record for the fewest goal attempts?

Great to try that free kick though at that stage.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			VAR check every penalty - looked clear as day to me
		
Click to expand...

so why do we see some VAR checks and not others. And how do you know they check every penalty given? That a fact, or an opinion?

Even if a fact, then on basis of “Caesar’s wife”, why not show us?

And your eyes must be better than mine, despite several runs through, I still don’t see a definite “taking of the foot”

As I type, Hold that plane😂


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 9, 2022)

Argentina getting done by a well worked free kick....reminds me of France 98 against us. Throw in the Germany ball over the line incident and it could be written in the stars for England


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 9, 2022)

Think the whole of Europe celebrated that goal, wow 😮


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			so why do we see some VAR checks and not others. And how do you know they check every penalty given? That a fact, or an opinion?

Even if a fact, then on basis of “Caesar’s wife”, why not show us?

And your eyes must be better than mine, despite several runs through, I still don’t see a definite “taking of the foot”

As I type, Hold that plane😂
		
Click to expand...

What do you mean see some VAR checks and not others ?

Every goal , penalty and claim, bad tackle etc is all checked by VAR - that’s a fact and has been the way since they brought VAR in


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			And that’s the big thing! Everyone’s commenting saying he takes the fifth, fifth means f all if anyone misses before. Best takers should go first, stop all this glory hunting.
		
Click to expand...

It is an absolute cop-out to take the 5th. Shoot-outs often don't get that far. Your best taker should go 3rd in my opinion as that's usually a crucial one. If it goes to a 5th just have someone with nerves of steel who can give it a belt with no fear.  If Neymar isn't their best penalty taker, then by all means he should go first and set the example for his team.


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2022)

Proper commentary of the equaliser:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601321926940565504


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 9, 2022)

Who said Route one footy was crap.

How bad is this ref.?


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			It is an absolute cop-out to take the 5th. Shoot-outs often don't get that far. Your best taker should go 3rd in my opinion as that's usually a crucial one. If it goes to a 5th just have someone with nerves of steel who can give it a belt with no fear.  If Neymar isn't their best penalty taker, then by all means he should go first and set the example for his team.
		
Click to expand...


House!!!!!!!

Ive now heard "experts" claim the best taker should go 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and last tonight


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 9, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Imagine banging on about something for so long hey Phil 😂
		
Click to expand...

Days but mostly weeks,or to everyone just gives up


----------



## theoneandonly (Dec 9, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			so why do we see some VAR checks and not others. And how do you know they check every penalty given? That a fact, or an opinion?

Even if a fact, then on basis of “Caesar’s wife”, why not show us?

And your eyes must be better than mine, despite several runs through, I still don’t see a definite “taking of the foot”

As I type, Hold that plane😂
		
Click to expand...

VAR checks all pens, goals etc .that's what it does....


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 9, 2022)

One thing is for certain our best penalty taker will go first.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 9, 2022)

Would love the Dutch to win this.
It will absolutely kick off for sure at the end or if someone scores


----------



## Captainron (Dec 9, 2022)

This ref is a liability.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 9, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What do you mean see some VAR checks and not others ?

Every goal , penalty and claim, bad tackle etc is all checked by VAR - that’s a fact and has been the way since they brought VAR in
		
Click to expand...

In this WC I have seen refs indicate there is a VAR check being made. And we have awaited the result. This time there was no indication one was(had) been made.
So what does that indicate, that *sometimes *they let us see what they are doing?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 9, 2022)

Dutch have gone back to playing like when they were getting beat 2-0.

Ref giving fouls that just are not.
Any contact he whistles.
Reminds me of Mike Dean.
He’s going to make himself the story in the press.


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			In this WC I have seen refs indicate there is a VAR check being made. And we have awaited the result. This time there was no indication one was(had) been made.
So what does that indicate, that *sometimes *they let us see what they are doing?
		
Click to expand...


no it means theyve already had a quick check and told the ref to play on. In other instances they tell the ref to wait on a decision that isnt so quick coming


----------



## theoneandonly (Dec 9, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			In this WC I have seen refs indicate there is a VAR check being made. And we have awaited the result. This time there was no indication one was(had) been made.
So what does that indicate, that *sometimes *they let us see what they are doing?
		
Click to expand...

Are you talking about the penalty? That needed no check beyond a cursory look at a replay, which we also got to see.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 9, 2022)

Is the ball difficult to control..?
It seems like the majority of crosses/corners/free kicks either fail to clear the first defender or go sailing  away..
Not seeing many long range shots with any great accuracy...


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Is the ball difficult to control..?
It seems like the majority of crosses/corners/free kicks either fail to clear the first defender or go sailing  away..
Not seeing many long range shots with any great accuracy...
		
Click to expand...


Sounds like an assessment of your golf game


----------



## Imurg (Dec 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			Sounds like an assessment of your golf game 

Click to expand...

As usual..Up Yours


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 9, 2022)

Captainron said:



			This ref is a liability.
		
Click to expand...

You wanna see him in the Champions League. You'd struggle to find a more arrogant or pompous ref anywhere.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 9, 2022)

What are the commentary team going to do if St Lionel of Messi goes out.
He’s good but these two are a joke.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 9, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Is the ball difficult to control..?
It seems like the majority of crosses/corners/free kicks either fail to clear the first defender or go sailing  away..
Not seeing many long range shots with any great accuracy...
		
Click to expand...

Think Trippier said it’s really light & moves a lot in the air.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 9, 2022)

As a neutral don’t you always want penalties at this stage?


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 9, 2022)

Find it odd I've been rooting for Brazil and Argentina to lose, yet I'de have quite fancied a Brazil v Argentina semi final. 

Maybe I subconsciously want Fred, Anthony, Casemiro and Martinez back to club training


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			What are the commentary team going to do if St Lionel of Messi goes out.
He’s good but these two are a joke.
		
Click to expand...

It’s embarrassing.
We know he’s good,but over hyping EVERYTHING 😬


----------



## IainP (Dec 9, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			As a neutral don’t you always want penalties at this stage?
		
Click to expand...

Nah, I prefer the games to be won prior.
But will you be thinking the same tomorrow evening? 😉


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			House!!!!!!!

Ive now heard "experts" claim the best taker should go 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and last tonight 

Click to expand...

I only said it was my opinion. More often I see people say the best should take 1st, but I find that a bit odd because there's comparatively less pressure on that one than the later ones. Either way it's a bottlejob for your country's record goalscorer to go 5th or not at all!


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 9, 2022)

IainP said:



			Nah, I prefer the games to be won prior.
But will you be thinking the same tomorrow evening? 😉
		
Click to expand...

nope because I won’t be a neutral 😉


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2022)

Dutch dont subscribe to the best pen taker goes first..........

Argentina do


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 9, 2022)

Messi goes first 😂😂😂😂


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 9, 2022)

Why put VVD 1st 🤷‍♂️


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2022)

brilliant from Martinez


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			brilliant from Martinez
		
Click to expand...

He's such a good keeper. Arsenal fans must be gutted they let him go for so little.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Messi goes first 😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

🤗😂


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 9, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Messi goes first 😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Interestingly, he went 4th against Netherlands in 2014, which was the penalty to win it. He was a right glory hunter in those days though


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			He's such a good keeper. Arsenal fans must be gutted they let him go for so little.
		
Click to expand...


Not overly tbh, was never his biggest fan and hes not the best with his feet and wouldnt be no 1 currently under the Arteta system

Might not be at Villa much longer now Dick is in charge either.............


----------



## IanM (Dec 9, 2022)

Ever seen bookings during a shootout?


----------



## Imurg (Dec 9, 2022)

Bugger.........


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2022)

IanM said:



			Ever seen bookings during a shootout?
		
Click to expand...

see them for the keeper a fair bit, not for others though


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 9, 2022)

Brilliant. Come on Messi


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			Dutch dont subscribe to the best pen taker goes first..........

Argentina do
		
Click to expand...

He dosnt take pens for Liverpool


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 9, 2022)

fundy said:



			Not overly tbh, was never his biggest fan and hes not the best with his feet and wouldnt be no 1 currently under the Arteta system

Might not be at Villa much longer now Dick is in charge either.............
		
Click to expand...

Emis class, certainly better now than he was a few years ago. He wasn’t playing for Argentina when he was at Arsenal. 

There’s plenty to improve at villa before the GK, and by that point he may be retiring anyway!


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 9, 2022)

Someone must have heard us talking about fewer yellows in this World Cup earlier today.

16 yellows in this match


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2022)

Mental match 

Referee was shocking 

Multiple times it kicked off 

Not sure if there was a player he didn’t book - coaches and subs got a few as well 

Not much great football


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Someone must have heard us talking about fewer yellows in this World Cup earlier today.

16 yellows in this match
		
Click to expand...

When he gave one half way through the shootout I thought he was just giving them out for fun by that point. Miracle no one got a red though.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 9, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Someone must have heard us talking about fewer yellows in this World Cup earlier today.

16 yellows in this match
		
Click to expand...

Half of them weren’t even fouls!


----------



## GreiginFife (Dec 9, 2022)

Referee has been getting some flak but lets face it, the players have been a right bunch of knobs throughout and the ref just hasn't been taking their pish. 

That said, Paredes should have been off for the scythe on Ake and then booting the ball in to the dugout. What a bell end.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 9, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			Referee has been getting some flak but lets face it, the players have been a right bunch of knobs throughout and the ref just hasn't been taking their pish.

That said, Paredes should have been off for the scythe on Ake and then booting the ball in to the dugout. What a bell end.
		
Click to expand...

There was a clash of heads ( two argies) Dutch had the ball but he stopped play rightly.
But gave the ball to the Argentina keeper.?


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 9, 2022)

We'll do Argentina, such a poor side.


----------



## GreiginFife (Dec 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			There was a clash of heads ( two argies) Dutch had the ball but he stopped play rightly.
But gave the ball to the Argentina keeper.?
		
Click to expand...

Didn't see that. But ok, one instance and I'm sure there will be more. But again, the players behaving like knobs got a lot of the bookings for themselves.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 9, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			Didn't see that. But ok, one instance and I'm sure there will be more. But again, the players behaving like knobs got a lot of the bookings for themselves.
		
Click to expand...

All footballers are knobs.
But most refs use a bit of common sense.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 9, 2022)

4LEX said:



			We'll do Argentina, such a poor side.
		
Click to expand...

Yes we will.
But a horrible bunch.


----------



## GreiginFife (Dec 9, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			All footballers are knobs.
But most refs use a bit of common sense.
		
Click to expand...

Ok, ok. The ref was wrong and should have let them behave like total muppets by using "common sense". Fair enough. 

Not entirely sure what common sense actually means. 

Refs us this common sense often get accused of being too soft or "bottling it". Seems the can't win.


----------



## BrianM (Dec 9, 2022)

4LEX said:



			We'll do Argentina, such a poor side.
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 9, 2022)

Love a penalty shootout when England aren’t involved.


----------



## BrianM (Dec 9, 2022)

For all the reservations about Qatar hosting the World Cup, it certainly seems top class.
The times work really well here in the uk as well which maybe helps.


----------



## BrianM (Dec 9, 2022)

England have the best attacking players against the remaining teams, the reservations for me are at the back and Southgate’s set up, If England go for it, there’s nothing stopping them.


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 9, 2022)

BrianM said:



			🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Otamendi starts for them and Di Maria. Both have been finished for years. Poor collection of strikers and a worse defence than England. Running on Messi and Martinez.

Portugal the only side that can stop England or France now.


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 9, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601344039332319232


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 9, 2022)

BrianM said:



			For all the reservations about Qatar hosting the World Cup, it certainly seems top class.
The times work really well here in the uk as well which maybe helps.
		
Click to expand...

Not seen much trouble with the fans.
A podcast I listen to went out for a few games & said it was all good,but different to other WC.


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 9, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not seen much trouble with the fans.
A podcast I listen to went out for a few games & said it was all good,but different to other WC.
		
Click to expand...

I’ve also heard it’s good but people don’t go out much. A couple friends have been out there and said there’s not a lot to see/do etc other than the actual football and fanzone events. 

On pitch it’s been great!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 9, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			Ok, ok. The ref was wrong and should have let them behave like total muppets by using "common sense". Fair enough.

Not entirely sure what common sense actually means.

Refs us this common sense often get accused of being too soft or "bottling it". Seems the can't win.
		
Click to expand...

Come on some of those bookings were a joke.
He’s got form seen him in the CL
How he got in the WC is anyones guess!


----------



## Fade and Die (Dec 10, 2022)

srixon 1 said:



			I played in a cup final (pub team) and I was the goalie. It went to penalties. After five pens it was all level and still level after 10 pens each had been taken. I had to take one and if I missed we lost. Most nerve wracking thing I’ve ever done. Imagine doing that when your whole nation is watching. Luckily I scored my pen and we went on to win after I saved one of their penalties.
		
Click to expand...

Hey I was there that night, I loved how you threw your gloves away before smacking it in…





Bit harsh calling us a pub team though!😆


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 10, 2022)

srixon 1 said:



			I played in a cup final (pub team) and I was the goalie. It went to penalties. After five pens it was all level and still level after 10 pens each had been taken. I had to take one and if I missed we lost. Most nerve wracking thing I’ve ever done. Imagine doing that when your whole nation is watching. Luckily I scored my pen and we went on to win after I saved one of their penalties.
		
Click to expand...

My Saturday over 40s team were in a cup final earlier this year, we equalised with just about the last kick of the game to take it to pens 😅
I saved their 3rd pen (got a video of it somewhere) we scored all ours we came out victorious but I'd have hated to take one lol.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601344039332319232

Click to expand...

Finest example of football shithousery, the South American‘s have it mastered


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			He's such a good keeper. Arsenal fans must be gutted they let him go for so little.
		
Click to expand...

If it wasnt for Bernd Leno getting injured 18 months  ago, nobody would've known who he was and he wouldnt be at the world cup.

His 38 appearances in 10yrs at Arsenal  speaks volumes.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			If it wasnt for Bernd Leno getting injured 18 months  ago, nobody would've known who he was and he wouldnt be at the world cup.

His 38 appearances in 10yrs at Arsenal  speaks volumes.
		
Click to expand...

Speaks volumes about who though? The Arsenal coaching staff who somehow overlooked a quality keeper for that long and nearly ruined his career?


----------



## HeftyHacker (Dec 10, 2022)

BrianM said:



			For all the reservations about Qatar hosting the World Cup, it certainly seems top class.

The times work really well here in the uk as well which maybe helps.
		
Click to expand...

Ideal for us, less so for the players I think. It was 1am by the time the arg v net game finished. That seems far too late!


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Finest example of football shithousery, the South American‘s have it mastered
		
Click to expand...

I guess much depends on the level of ordure the Dutch we’re sending Argentina’s way during the match.  I didn’t watch the whole match, only highlights - just an observation not an excuse or exhoneration.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 10, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Speaks volumes about who though? The Arsenal coaching staff who somehow overlooked a quality keeper for that long and nearly ruined his career?
		
Click to expand...

Haha i love an overreaction, he was on loan at 4 different Championship clubs and never stood out.

I've no doubt coaches get it wrong from time to time, but to blame them for nearly ruining his career is laughable.

I know reserve keepers dont get spoken about often but if he was PL quality he would've stood out and had loads of hype/compliments in those stints.

if Leno doesnt get injured we wouldnt be having this discussion.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 10, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601505365480607746
😂love it


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			Referee has been getting some flak but lets face it, the players have been a right bunch of knobs throughout and the ref just hasn't been taking their pish.

That said, Paredes should have been off for the scythe on Ake and then booting the ball in to the dugout. What a bell end.
		
Click to expand...

The referee played his part in the game being a mess 

He had zero control on the game and was just flashing yellow cards and the constant blow of his whistle , he allowed the game to get away from him and the players to start acting like idiots 

Parades should have walked for his incident but the only thing that was consistent was how inconsistent he was - his idea of control was just dishing out cards. 

Have seen him plenty of times in CL and he never seems in control and it wouldn’t surprise me to see that he has given out more yellow cards than any other ref


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 10, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601505365480607746
😂love it
		
Click to expand...

Talk about speaking your mind 😂 wonder whether he will get away with that referee remark without consequence? 

Love the Van Gaal dig 😂😂


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 10, 2022)

Here or in Irritations_. The. ITV shows MAR vPOR.   Is it a careless typo? Don’t think so, because it was MAR the last time Morocco played.😗


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 10, 2022)

What a jump!,


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Here or in Irritations_. The. ITV shows MAR vPOR.   Is it a careless typo? Don’t think so, because it was MAR the last time Morocco played.😗
		
Click to expand...

FIFA use the French abbreviation of Maroc for the country - it’s always MAR for them ( same for Olympics)!


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Here or in Irritations_. The. ITV shows MAR vPOR.   Is it a careless typo? Don’t think so, because it was MAR the last time Morocco played.😗
		
Click to expand...

Mar As in Maroc, the French name I expect

Good to see them in front too


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 10, 2022)

Get in!


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 10, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Here or in Irritations_. The. ITV shows MAR vPOR.   Is it a careless typo? Don’t think so, because it was MAR the last time Morocco played.😗
		
Click to expand...

MAR is not a typo, it is correct and intentional


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 10, 2022)

Cheating, cheating and cheating. Hate it.


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

Classy lot the Portugese lol


----------



## Imurg (Dec 10, 2022)

Portugal really are the scum of the earth aren't they...
I what else they'll find to complain about in then2nd half 
It would be a bad day if Portugal win the whole thing....


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

Really impressed with Morocco .

B Fernandez should have shock absorbers in his shorts.
Never seen a player go down so easy.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 10, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Really impressed with Morocco .

B Fernandez should have shock absorbers in his shorts.
*Never seen a player go down so easy.*

Click to expand...

You've not seen Richarlison then🤔


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			You've not seen Richarlison then🤔
		
Click to expand...

Yes but he’s gone home.
Fernandez is a class footballer imo and dosnt need to do most of the cheating trying to con the ref.
Richarlason isn’t imo.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 10, 2022)

Would be so good for World football if Morocco make it. Breaks the European grip on the game, which opens it up for the future .Gives encouragement all over.

Also vindicates the playing with attack in mind, rather than the crap crab moves at  the back, which is now seemingly the (boring) fashion.


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Would be so good for World football if Morocco make it. Breaks the European grip on the game, which opens it up for the future .Gives encouragement all over.

Also vindicates the playing with attack in mind, rather than the crap crab moves at  the back, which is now seemingly the (boring) fashion.
		
Click to expand...


you think Morocco winning would vindicate attacking football? Youve not watched them much have you?


----------



## Imurg (Dec 10, 2022)

If it's obvious to us the a lot of these players ( on all sides) are cheating/diving/feigning injuries how can it not be obvious to the match officials? 
And what aren't players getting carded for it?

Uh oh...Pierced Organ will be happy


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 10, 2022)

I spent the first 15 minutes of the match supporting Portugal. Not intentionally, I couldn't find my glasses and thought Portugal were in red. I thought the Moroccan number four was Pepe. I've found my glasses now and all is right with the world.


----------



## Dando (Dec 10, 2022)

Fernandes, Bruno and Ronaldo to spend the next 40 mins rolling around on the ground


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			you think Morocco winning would vindicate attacking football? Youve not watched them much have you?
		
Click to expand...

no, I haven’t. (How much have you watched them). But what I’m seeing is more than attacking when compared with us in this WC so far.
in fact, if they play us like this, Mr Stones will look to be as mobile as his namesakes😉


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 10, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			no, I haven’t. (How much have you watched them). But what I’m seeing is more than attacking when compared with us in this WC so far.
in fact, if they play us like this, Mr Stones will look to be as mobile as his namesakes😉
		
Click to expand...

Uhhh? Morocco have scored 5 goals in this World Cup, the 5th today.

England have scored 12


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			no, I haven’t. (How much have you watched them). But what I’m seeing is more than attacking when compared with us in this WC so far.
in fact, if they play us like this, Mr Stones will look to be as mobile as his namesakes😉
		
Click to expand...


Ive seen every game theyve played in this WC. They have set up to defend and try and counter attack occasionally in every game.

Against Spain the had 23% possession and 1 shot on target
Against already out Canada they had 40% possession and 2 shots on target
Against Belgium they had 33% possession and 4 shots on target
Against Croatia they had 35% possession and 2 shots on target

So in total, 9 shots on target across 4 games (and 4 goals), the negative England side have had more than 20 shots on target and more than 10 goals


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			no, I haven’t. (How much have you watched them). But what I’m seeing is more than attacking when compared with us in this WC so far.
in fact, if they play us like this, Mr Stones will look to be as mobile as his namesakes😉
		
Click to expand...

Have you got yourself confused 🤷‍♂️

You really think Morocco are more attacking than England 🤷‍♂️

Very strange - believe England might be the top scorers in the comp with Morocco near the bottom of the teams that qualified for the KO 

Even in this game they are just sitting deep 11 behind the ball


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 10, 2022)

The stats that come on the screen must have been designed by a colour blind American...the colours are hard to make out and the terminology hilarious and more akin to American Football!


----------



## hovis (Dec 10, 2022)

Think I want Portugal out more than I want England through 🤣


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 10, 2022)

Morocco look outstanding until the final 3rd lol but they are great to watch


----------



## Dando (Dec 10, 2022)

Pepe is a knob


----------



## Imurg (Dec 10, 2022)

What would be fantastic now is a last second equaliser that gets ruled out by VAR


----------



## Dando (Dec 10, 2022)

Imurg said:



			What would be fantastic now is a last second equaliser that gets ruled out by VAR
		
Click to expand...

a Ronaldo effort as well


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

Dando said:



			a Ronaldo effort as well
		
Click to expand...

 a Pepe miss almost as good


----------



## Imurg (Dec 10, 2022)

I think he may cry...


----------



## Dando (Dec 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			a Pepe miss almost as good 

Click to expand...

Set up by rat face


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

I'd have Amrabat in Arsenals midfield in a heartbeat. Been utterly immense again

Get in Morocco!


----------



## Dando (Dec 10, 2022)

Imurg said:



			I think he may cry...
		
Click to expand...

Pies will be sobbing his heart out


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2022)

Brilliant 😂😂

Portugal, Ronaldo , Bernardo Silva and Pepe out 😂😂😂😂



fundy said:



			I'd have Amrabat in Arsenals midfield in a heartbeat. Been utterly immense again

Get in Morocco!
		
Click to expand...

Seems he is available for around £30mil and Liverpool looking to seal the deal


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 10, 2022)

Crocodile tears


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 10, 2022)

Love it! Pepe's missed header all down to his sore arm.

Almost couldn't watch the last few minutes.

Ronaldo got some sand in his eye?


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

Brilliant from McCoist 

Its not about him!


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

Ronaldo classy as ever


----------



## nickjdavis (Dec 10, 2022)

I cannot believe that I am going to be as nervous in two hours time than I was for the last 20 minutes!!!


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Have you got yourself confused 🤷‍♂️

You really think Morocco are more attacking than England 🤷‍♂️

Very strange - believe England might be the top scorers in the comp with Morocco near the bottom of the teams that qualified for the KO

Even in this game they are just sitting deep 11 behind the ball
		
Click to expand...

Confused?
Don’t be an arse. They are defending against a desperate attack, yet still when they get a chance they attack instead of choosing not to do so. And one attack almost succeeded.
England hav3 been defending when they had no need to, and going forward as willingly as me to the headmasters study when I had  the cane😀


----------



## Imurg (Dec 10, 2022)

Straight off down the tunnel..no hanging about..he's off....


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Brilliant 😂😂

Portugal, Ronaldo , Bernardo Silva and Pepe out 😂😂😂😂



Seems he is available for around £30mil and Liverpool looking to seal the deal
		
Click to expand...


Cant say id be surprised if he gets a big move, rather it wasnt to your lot though


----------



## hovis (Dec 10, 2022)

Bye bye Portugal.  Take that greasy rat with you


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Brilliant 😂😂

Portugal, Ronaldo , *Bernardo Silva* and Pepe out 😂😂😂😂



Seems he is available for around £30mil and Liverpool looking to seal the deal
		
Click to expand...

I know I'm biased but...?


----------



## srixon 1 (Dec 10, 2022)

Ronaldo just walking off without shaking hands. Absolute W⚓️


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 10, 2022)

I said some time ago I see an underdog getting to the final. Does Croatia and Morocco count 🤔👍


----------



## Dando (Dec 10, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Ronaldo classy as ever
		
Click to expand...

You’d never tire of slapping him


----------



## Dando (Dec 10, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			I know I'm biased but...?
		
Click to expand...

He seems like one of the 1 decent ones


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			I know I'm biased but...?
		
Click to expand...

Was supposed to be Fernandes 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Diving cheating Herbert 

and Ronaldo showing his complete lack of class at the end walking off without even shaking hands of the oppo


----------



## Dando (Dec 10, 2022)

Imurg said:



			I think he may cry...
		
Click to expand...

good


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Was supposed to be Fernandes 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Diving cheating Herbert 

and Ronaldo showing his complete lack of class at the end walking off without even shaking hands of the oppo
		
Click to expand...

Ha ha - I was surprised. I do wonder if the decent Portuguese players despair of the cheaters as much as we do.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

Dando said:



			You’d never tire of slapping him
		
Click to expand...

Until my arms fell off.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 10, 2022)

Has anybody checked on Piers..?


----------



## Dando (Dec 10, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Until my arms fell off.
		
Click to expand...

Then you kick him


----------



## SteveJay (Dec 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			a Pepe miss almost as good 

Click to expand...

Our wish was granted


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

Imurg said:



			If it's obvious to us the a lot of these players ( on all sides) are cheating/diving/feigning injuries how can it not be obvious to the match officials?
And what aren't players getting carded for it?

Uh oh...Pierced Organ will be happy
		
Click to expand...

Yes the first yellow for the lad sent off was a joke.
Pepe just conning the ref.
It was a foul no more.
Nice to see the cheating so sos go out.

Brilliant from Morocco very impressed with some of their players .

Thought the ref was very good apart from the silly red card.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I spent the first 15 minutes of the match supporting Portugal. Not intentionally, I couldn't find my glasses and thought Portugal were in red. I thought the Moroccan number four was Pepe. I've found my glasses now and all is right with the world.
		
Click to expand...

Sometimes ignorance is bliss.


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Dec 10, 2022)

Gentlemen, some decorum please 

Bye Portugal, hope the door doesn’t hit you on the butt of your way out 👍


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 10, 2022)

Ronaldo  

They got what they deserved, just a shame Netherlands couldn't do Argentina last night.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			Ive seen every game theyve played in this WC. They have set up to defend and try and counter attack occasionally in every game.

Against Spain the had 23% possession and 1 shot on target
Against already out Canada they had 40% possession and 2 shots on target
Against Belgium they had 33% possession and 4 shots on target
Against Croatia they had 35% possession and 2 shots on target

So in total, 9 shots on target across 4 games (and 4 goals), the negative England side have had more than 20 shots on target and more than 10 goals
		
Click to expand...

That tells me their finishing is quite good.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 10, 2022)

Devastated  for Portugal  and Cristiano  🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## hovis (Dec 10, 2022)

Personally I think france are going to give us a good hiding but by some miracle we win now is the best chance England will have in my living memory


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Ha ha - I was surprised. I do wonder if the decent Portuguese players despair of the cheaters as much as we do.
		
Click to expand...

Not when it helps them win.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 10, 2022)

hovis said:



			Personally I think france are going to give us a good hiding but by some miracle we win now is the best chance England will have in my living memory
		
Click to expand...

Hovis lad that is not helpful. We need to be positive.  We can do it!


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 10, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not when it helps them win.
		
Click to expand...

I guess so. It seems the World Cup can display the worst and best of football.


----------



## Smiffy (Dec 10, 2022)

Difficult one to call.
I'd rather it was Brazil or Argentina if I'm honest.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 10, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Hovis lad that is not helpful. *We need to be positive.*  We can do it!
		
Click to expand...

I'm positive that France are going to give us a good hiding. 

Is that better?


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 10, 2022)

Wow, he actually hasn't gone to the back five! I'm shocked.


----------



## Jason.H (Dec 10, 2022)

Whatever result I’m ok with. There’s no hiding the fact that England have become more of a force since the FA invested in St George’s Park. The facilities there are great and when they meet there for England duties it must be like their 2nd home.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 10, 2022)

Jason.H said:



			Whatever result I’m ok with. There’s no hiding the fact that England have become more of a force since the FA invested in St George’s Park. The facilities there are great and when they meet there for England duties it must be like their 2nd home.
		
Click to expand...

Fantastic point 

Great vision from the fa


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

2-0 England.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 10, 2022)

Fingers crossed add mbappe later


----------



## Slime (Dec 10, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			I guess so. It seems the World Cup can display the worst and best of football.
		
Click to expand...

As can this forum .............................. the hatred is hilarious.
God knows how much will be aimed at Southgate if we lose.
I actually think he's done a superb job for England.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2022)

Slime said:



			As can this forum .............................. the hatred is hilarious.
God knows how much will be aimed at Southgate if we lose.
I actually think he's done a superb job for England.
		
Click to expand...

“Hatred” is a really poor choice of word

I will never understand why some people will never understand why footballs fans don’t always like the same players and when it comes to people like Ronaldo who have huge egos will always take great delight in watching them lose a football match. We know he is your hero - today that hero was beaten fair and square on the pitch and how did he react - he ran off without shaking peoples hands and then his teammates blamed the nationality of the ref 

Appalling behaviour with no class or any sort of humility in defeat - his attitude was shocking and seeing him lose will be satisfying for many


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

Slime said:



			As can this forum .............................. the hatred is hilarious.
God knows how much will be aimed at Southgate if we lose.
I actually think he's done a superb job for England.
		
Click to expand...

He’s easily the most successful England manager since Alf Ramsey.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 10, 2022)

Hold tight


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

Makes me chuckle when the National anthems come on.
I think of Billy Connely on Parkinson.
2-1 England for me ,come on.


----------



## Slime (Dec 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			“Hatred” is a really poor choice of word

I will never understand why some people will never understand why footballs fans don’t always like the same players and when it comes to people like Ronaldo who have huge egos will always take great delight in watching them lose a football match. We know he is your hero - today that hero was beaten fair and square on the pitch and how did he react - he ran off without shaking peoples hands and then his teammates blamed the nationality of the ref

Appalling behaviour with no class or any sort of humility in defeat - his attitude was shocking and seeing him lose will be satisfying for many
		
Click to expand...

He is not, nor ever has been, my hero.
And hatred, in my opinion, is not a 'really poor' choice of word.


----------



## Dando (Dec 10, 2022)

It looked like Harry Kane was towing a caravan on that “run”


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

Should be a free kick on the edge of their box ffs. Some hit mind


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 10, 2022)

Slime said:



			As can this forum .............................. the hatred is hilarious.
God knows how much will be aimed at Southgate if we lose.
I actually think he's done a superb job for England.
		
Click to expand...

Agree re Southgate but will never agree on Ronaldo

He cares for one person. Himself

Straight down the tunnel not a word for the teams or the fans 

Bet his team put out they would have won if he started..

Saw it when bale scored the champ league winner .. his face was angry it wasn't about him 

The bloke is less likable than neymar and Suarez


----------



## Imurg (Dec 10, 2022)

We are so static...unless we're trying to catch them up as the break


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

How do you end up with Shaw or Henderson to take a free kick just outside the box. Surely one of our attacking players should be taking these


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 10, 2022)

France currently playing with more zip when they have the ball. We seem a bit ponderous. We need to up the oomph quotient


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

he didnt play the ball ref, HTH


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

That’s a foul all day long.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 10, 2022)

How the hell is that not a pen


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

SO Upamecano is allowed to foul as he chooses lol


----------



## IanM (Dec 10, 2022)

Proof if needed... this is a bent game


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			he didnt play the ball ref, HTH
		
Click to expand...

Unless they claiming it's outside the box so it doesn't count? But was on the line. Which is in the box


----------



## Slime (Dec 10, 2022)

I'll say it now, these officials are corrupt.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 10, 2022)

How long do France hold it at the back ……and how long do we?


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Unless they claiming it's outside the box so it doesn't count? But was on the line. Which is in the box
		
Click to expand...

Its marginal in or out, but the ref clearly made his opinion that Upemecano had played the ball. He clearly didnt


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 10, 2022)

I've a feeling the officials will give England nothing tonight. VAR now allows match officials time to think, and manipulate how a game can go in terms of making key decisions. And zero scrutiny from watching world, as they are hidden away.

Looked a foul on Saka and Kane.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

Been shafted here by poor ref and VAR.
VAR only has one thing to do ,” get to the correct decision”


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 10, 2022)

Henderson…Grrr. Kick it in the box with left foot, or kick it back to halfway with right foot.  Guess what happened.
Get him off!


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

I’ve seen enough from the officials in this tournament and tonight to believe that nothing will go our way. 

We’re going to have to win against the French and officials.


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

Saka just being fouled every time he gets the ball, need to get Foden into it more


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2022)

Apart from that muppet last night the officials have let a lot go in terms of fouls - this one seems afraid to blow his whistle 

Looked a foul on Saka early on 

Upemencano clearly fouled Kane but seemed marginal just outside 

France doing well in the centre of the park but it’s in the wide areas they are causing a lot of trouble


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Apart from that muppet last night the officials have let a lot go in terms of fouls - this one seems afraid to blow his whistle

Looked a foul on Saka early on

Upemencano clearly fouled Kane but seemed marginal just outside

France doing well in the centre of the park but it’s in the wide areas they are causing a lot of trouble
		
Click to expand...

Fortnights time we'll all be moaning about them giving anything and everything in the premier league lol


----------



## Dando (Dec 10, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Henderson…Grrr. Kick it in the box with left foot, or kick it back to halfway with right foot.  Guess what happened.
Get him off!
		
Click to expand...

If there’s no one in the box, what’s the point in crossing the ball?


----------



## Slime (Dec 10, 2022)

Wow, it's difficult enough having to beat the world champions on a level playing field ............................ but I don't believe this is one!


----------



## Slime (Dec 10, 2022)

KANE ............................................ GET IN THE BLOODY BOX!!


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 10, 2022)

Erm not a head injury?


----------



## Slime (Dec 10, 2022)

......................... and so it goes on.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 10, 2022)

Dando said:



			If there’s no one in the box, what’s the point in crossing the ball?
		
Click to expand...

That in itself is a true statement. But there were players in the box, and you know and I know why he kicked it with his right foot. That’s the only one he can kick it with, with any sense.,
Not only the easy option, it was his only option.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 10, 2022)

Good attacking position for England there. Ref stopped play as French player had a sore foot

Are rules made up on the spot?


----------



## Dando (Dec 10, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			That in itself is a true statement. But there were players in the box, and you know and I know why he kicked it with his right foot. That’s the only one he can kick it with, with any sense.,
Not only the easy option, it was his only option.
		
Click to expand...

well kane certainly wasn’t in the box


----------



## Slime (Dec 10, 2022)

Can the ref be subbed at half time ...................................... along with Kane.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 10, 2022)

And now we really find out how good Southgate is.....or not as the case may be
Work to do


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 10, 2022)

As much as the ref is having a shocker our football Looks like It is 20 years old.


----------



## BrianM (Dec 10, 2022)

England haven’t done too much wrong so far, Walker playing well, Henderson not so, too many backward passes from him.
I’m not convinced about the fouls, you’d be disappointed if they went against you.
I’d take on Grealish or Sterling.
Grizeman superb as well, thought he was garbage when at Barcelona.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

Linos aren’t even giving decisions. They have looked at the ref a few times before giving a decision for something that happened right in front of them!


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

Other than the goal I think England edged that half. France haven’t really been up to much.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			Its marginal in or out, but the ref clearly made his opinion that Upemecano had played the ball. He clearly didnt
		
Click to expand...

I think the ref thought that Harry was looking and playing for it. But that doesn’t seem to matter most of the time, the foul is still given, cos that’s what they all do now, I reckon.
So, why not this one?
That was a pen. 
edit….. The pundits are saying that maybe VAR determined the foul was outside the box, and if so, the ref cannot go back for that.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 10, 2022)

Hate refs
Hate VAR
Hate always feeling like this at World Cups. Come on guys, change the narrative please...


----------



## Piece (Dec 10, 2022)

Jeez. That non-penalty decision...looks so much worse after that HT analysis. 🫣🤐😲


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			I think the ref thought that Harry was looking and playing for it. But that doesn’t seem to matter most of the time, the foul is still given, cos that’s what they all do now, I reckon.
So, why not this one?
That was a pen.
		
Click to expand...


he circled his arms to say hed played the ball, didnt get near it lol


----------



## BrianM (Dec 10, 2022)

My initial thought was foul just outside the box, but VAR can’t give that apparently, VAR is garbage.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 10, 2022)

BrianM said:



			My initial thought was foul just outside the box, but VAR can’t give that apparently, VAR is garbage.
		
Click to expand...

I'm amazed the ref never gave the Free Kick at least, it was clumsy to say the least.


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

BrianM said:



			My initial thought was foul just outside the box, but VAR can’t give that apparently, VAR is garbage.
		
Click to expand...


The bigger issue is still the ref 15 yards away thinks the defender has played the ball when its almost impossible for him to do so from behind


----------



## arnieboy (Dec 10, 2022)

Slime said:



			Can the ref be subbed at half time ...................................... along with Kane.
		
Click to expand...

You should know by now that Kane plays in a certain way that suits his skill set. He is still one of our very top players.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm amazed the ref never gave the Free Kick at least, it was clumsy to say the least.
		
Click to expand...

When the French defender put his legs in there he gave the referee a decision to make. He bottled it.


----------



## BrianM (Dec 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			The bigger issue is still the ref 15 yards away thinks the defender has played the ball when its almost impossible for him to do so from behind
		
Click to expand...

I didn’t think it was a penalty because the foul started outside the box, Gareth has to make a change though, Maddison?
Forgot about him earlier!!


----------



## Slime (Dec 10, 2022)

arnieboy said:



			You should know by now that Kane plays in a certain way that suits his skill set. He is still one of our very top players.
		
Click to expand...

I'd still bring Wilson on.
As I type this, another cross fizzes across the box, two yards ahead of Kane because he seems to be loitering.


----------



## BrianM (Dec 10, 2022)

Shut up Lee Dixon 🙏🏻


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 10, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Grizeman superb as well, thought he was garbage when at Barcelona.
		
Click to expand...

He wants to play in the same space as Messi and that wasn't going to happen. He was restricted, playing with one arm tied behind his back. France have given him the freedom to play that he never had at Barcelona. Typical collecting top players without thinking about how they would fit. He's a classy player.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

Slime said:



			I'd still bring Wilson on.
As I type this, another cross fizzes across the box, two yards ahead of Kane because he seems to be loitering.
		
Click to expand...

He’s not loitering ,he just wants to play CM.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

Jeez his whistle works for a pen.


----------



## Slime (Dec 10, 2022)

At last, a decision!


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 10, 2022)

Thank goodness ref gave that. VAR wouldn't


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 10, 2022)

Can’t watch


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

GTFI


----------



## Imurg (Dec 10, 2022)

Takes a decent penalty does Harry


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

We’re on top so carry on No dropping back.


----------



## IainP (Dec 10, 2022)

👍  now, keep the tempo up 🤞


----------



## Slime (Dec 10, 2022)

They should play as though they were still a goal down.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2022)

Mbappe just glides across the pitch - unbelievable at times 

England got to keep getting Saka on the ball , he is scaring them when he runs at them , might be worth getting Rashford on for Foden who can’t get in the game


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 10, 2022)

Stones is rubbish .Got no sense of purpose, Seems to think all he has to do is pass it a few yards to the nearest white shirt.
I wouldn’t have him in a pub team!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

Grealish for me for Foden.
Just tell him to go at them at every op.

Think we need an attacking sub.


----------



## BrianM (Dec 10, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Stones is rubbish .Got no sense of purpose, Seems to think all he has to do is pass it a few yards to the nearest white shirt.
I wouldn’t have him in a pub team!
		
Click to expand...

Garbage.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 10, 2022)

As soon as England raise the tempo it looks better. Just don’t give the ball away too silly.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

What is this ref doing?
Earning his bung it’s a joke.


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

what has Saka done to this ref (and most refs tbh)


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			what has Saka done to this ref (and most refs tbh)
		
Click to expand...

He’s our most dangerous player but the ref is letting the French kick him out of the game.


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			He’s our most dangerous player but the ref is letting the French kick him out of the game.
		
Click to expand...

been happening most weeks in the prem tbh, kid wont last long at this rate


----------



## IainP (Dec 10, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Other than the goal I think England edged that half. France haven’t really been up to much.
		
Click to expand...

Don't seem to be showing many stats - possession,  shots on target etc. But 70 odd minutes in it feels like England "are ahead in points". Need to go properly ahead..


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 10, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Garbage.
		
Click to expand...

Whichever word you prefer. Mine is English, yours American…😂


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 10, 2022)

That looked a foul on Bellingham. Anywhere else on pitch it is a foul, defender tried to nip in front, and took him out


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

England 14 shots 8 on target
France 6 shots 3 on target

England 61% possession
XG: 1.5 Eng 0.44 France


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 10, 2022)

Pickford you sexy animal!


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

sigh


----------



## Imurg (Dec 10, 2022)

Good goal that


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2022)

Stunning save that but then what a ball in from Greizmann and heck of a header from Giroud - looks like it’s come of the England player 

The ball from Griezmann though - special


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 10, 2022)

We haven't looked at it past 5 mins.. it's been coming

We got away with it with Pickford amazing save


----------



## IainP (Dec 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			England 14 shots 8 on target
France 6 shots 3 on target

England 61% possession
XG: 1.5 Eng 0.44 France
		
Click to expand...

Stats eh  ☹


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

IainP said:



			Stats eh  ☹
		
Click to expand...

yup 

Saka off? Injured i assume?


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

Clearly a pen


----------



## Slime (Dec 10, 2022)

Surely a penalty ....................... surely!


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

This ref is bent.


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

thats horrific "defending" from hernandez


----------



## Imurg (Dec 10, 2022)

How VAR needs to look at that is beyond me


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 10, 2022)

How did the ref miss that in real time? It is actually one that looked worse in real time, and it was obvious in slow motion


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

Imurg said:



			How VAR needs to look at that is beyond me
		
Click to expand...

Cos the ref is bent


----------



## Slime (Dec 10, 2022)

Imurg said:



			How VAR needs to look at that is beyond me
		
Click to expand...

They're just looking for a reason not to give it!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2022)

Stupid challenge- can only guess that the ref thought it was shoulder on shoulder at first look

Wow didn’t expect that - way over


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

OMFG


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 10, 2022)

My life kane what was that .. save I could get but missing


----------



## Imurg (Dec 10, 2022)

Bang goes the Knighthood


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Bang goes the Knighthood
		
Click to expand...


save it for Rashford


----------



## Jason.H (Dec 10, 2022)

Shame Kane missed. Extra pressure knowing the official are against.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

It’s the hope that kills you 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 10, 2022)

England and penalties 🤔😖


----------



## Dando (Dec 10, 2022)

Awful penalty


----------



## full_throttle (Dec 10, 2022)

England will not win any tournament whilst Kane is in the line up. Simples.....


----------



## Slime (Dec 10, 2022)

Jason.H said:



			Shame Kane missed. Extra pressure knowing the official are against.
		
Click to expand...

At least he was in the box, which makes a change.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Good goal that
		
Click to expand...

Yes but Maguire isn’t even looking at the ball as it’s crossed.
Giroud has had far to much room.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 10, 2022)

How has rabiot not been booked .. his first foul was a yellow


----------



## full_throttle (Dec 10, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Takes a decent penalty does Harry
		
Click to expand...

Would you like to re-phrase that?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

full_throttle said:



			England will not win any tournament whilst Kane is in the line up. Simples.....
		
Click to expand...

If he played midfield we might but we need a CF.
To many times nobody in the box.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 10, 2022)

Mbappe upping the shithousery levels.....👌


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 10, 2022)

I'm going for no more than 3 mins of injury time? Maybe only 1 minute, that would be hilarious in a way


----------



## Slime (Dec 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm going for no more than 3 mins of injury time? Maybe only 1 minute, that would be hilarious in a way
		
Click to expand...

Ooops. 8 minutes.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm going for no more than 3 mins of injury time? Maybe only 1 minute, that would be hilarious in a way
		
Click to expand...

8


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 10, 2022)

France fouling at will. So we bring on sterling and leave Grealish on the bench 🤔


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Bang goes the Knighthood
		
Click to expand...

He will get a Pizza ad though.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			France fouling at will. So we bring on sterling and leave Grealish on the bench 🤔
		
Click to expand...

GS.


----------



## Captainron (Dec 10, 2022)

Donkey.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

We concentrated to much on Mbappe and didn’t factor in the Referee.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 10, 2022)

Gotta be Route 1 now


----------



## IainP (Dec 10, 2022)

Not being able to score in open play. 
Maguire & Stones positioning for 2nd goal.
Oh well.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

1 min for Grealish to change the game???


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 10, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			We concentrated to much on Mbappe and didn’t factor in the Referee.
		
Click to expand...

Give over, England have had enough chances to win this game. 

Was it the refs fault Kane couldnt score a pen or Rice giving Giroud a free header?


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

Arise Sir Marcus plse


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 10, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			1 min for Grealish to change the game???
		
Click to expand...

That the refs fault aswell?


----------



## Imurg (Dec 10, 2022)

Where's Becks when you need him.....


----------



## Dando (Dec 10, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Where's Becks when you need him.....
		
Click to expand...

Counting his blood money


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 10, 2022)

Shouldve let Shaw have it🤭🤭


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 10, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Gotta be Route 1 now
		
Click to expand...

It will be, straight home. ☹️


----------



## IanM (Dec 10, 2022)

Pooh!


----------



## Captainron (Dec 10, 2022)

🤣🤣


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 10, 2022)

We go out with our heads held high 

Southgate for me deserves to stay


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

Really feels like a game that got away from us  Definitely didnt have the rub of the green (yes ref lookin at you) but missed our chances too, especially the pen  Annoying because France really werent that good.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 10, 2022)

Karma is beautiful


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601258750496866304


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Give over, England have had enough chances to win this game.

Was it the refs fault Kane couldnt score a pen or Rice giving Giroud a free header?
		
Click to expand...

I agree we have been the better side.
The first goal was a foul on Saka.
The ref tried his best and has been successful he’s been woeful.
But St Harry has taken the heat of Southgate.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 10, 2022)

Great sportsmanship from the French....Good to see
Unlike the Argies..
Croatia v France final I hope.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2022)

They have just spotted Kanes penalty





England again just can’t get past the better teams in the KO -but was a good game , maybe just edged it but France had the quality to finish the chances 

some strange subs - bringing off Saka for Sterling and then giving Grealish 1 min 🤷‍♂️

Bellingham again is just outstanding


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 10, 2022)

They have surprised me, but still I think Kane is too slow and Sterling has no delivery.


----------



## Piece (Dec 10, 2022)

France weren't great. We didn't have the luck. Most of all I don't think we were positive enough as they weren't very good at the back. Rollox.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

No disgrace in that. All those who thought France would steamroll us were well wrong. 

Can’t wait to read all the rubbish written by people who think they’re experts.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			That the refs fault aswell?
		
Click to expand...

No GS.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			No GS.
		
Click to expand...

How?


----------



## Reemul (Dec 10, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			No disgrace in that. All those who thought France would steamroll us were well wrong.

Can’t wait to read all the rubbish written by people who think they’re experts.
		
Click to expand...

Not a lot to say really, if you cannot score a penalty you probably won't win anything and it doesn't take any sort of expert to know that.


----------



## Slime (Dec 10, 2022)

Well, that was an entertaining game.
England every bit as good as France but didn't factor in the corrupt officials.
Kane didn't help much either, my God he frustrates me at times.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

All Argentina now aren’t we?


----------



## Yorkhacker (Dec 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Karma is beautiful


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601258750496866304

Click to expand...

Karma for who? You're not suggesting The Sun speaks for all England fans are you?


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 10, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			We go out with our heads held high

Southgate for me deserves to stay
		
Click to expand...

I assume we're blaming Rice for going out tonight using your previous logic?


----------



## srixon 1 (Dec 10, 2022)

Where do I buy a Croatian shirt from?


----------



## Slime (Dec 10, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			All Argentina now aren’t we?
		
Click to expand...

No, I'm all over Morocco, I think ......................... or maybe Croatia.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I assume we're blaming Rice for going out tonight using your previous logic?
		
Click to expand...

Lol no because he had a good game, as did Henderson 

Let's blame sterling because what was that dithering at the end! Even rice had take control and play it forward 

He's so slow


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			How?
		
Click to expand...

The French were fouling anything that moved.
We needed someone on the ball to go at them.
Even if he only gets you free kicks around the box.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

Slime said:



			No, I'm all over Morocco, I think.
		
Click to expand...

I just want Messi to win a World Cup to upset the ManU Ronaldo fanbois


----------



## Piece (Dec 10, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			All Argentina now aren’t we?
		
Click to expand...

Never. Morocco 🇲🇦  please!


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			The French were fouling anything that moved.
We needed someone on the ball to go at them.
Even if he only gets you free kicks around the box.
		
Click to expand...

OK 🙄


----------



## paddyc (Dec 10, 2022)

Saka our best player on the night giving their LB a torrid time off for Sterling?? You need a goal so put on Grealish?  ?
Should have won that.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 10, 2022)

Well, I guess it is just the sort of England result I'd expect. Maybe it is just fate, rather than pointing blame. Did what they needed to do up to this game, and luck could have helped them tonight, and it didn't. 

It still stings the first French goal followed an obvious foul on Saka. Maybe things could have played and felt differently had England not gone behind


----------



## BrianM (Dec 10, 2022)

Why was Saka taken off, he was brilliant, France edged it for me, shocking foul for second penalty, why even take Maddison….


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 10, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			We go out with our heads held high

Southgate for me deserves to stay
		
Click to expand...

Agree with this. Southgate didn't go cautious but we didn't test Lloris enough. We largely nullified France and they are likely to win the tournament. No shame in going out in that way, better than losing in a shoot out as well.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Saka our best player on the night giving their LB a torrid time off for Sterling?? You need a goal so put on Grealish?  ?
Should have won that.
		
Click to expand...

that’s a really head scratching choice - Saka was killing then 



So it looks like you can take Kane out of Spurs but you can never take the Spursy out of Kane 😁


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 10, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			All Argentina now aren’t we?
		
Click to expand...

100% Messi all the way


----------



## Asian Dawn (Dec 10, 2022)

So here come all the moronic posts everywhere and in the media about Southgate not being good enough.   
And as for the ITV pundits, utter embarrassment.  Criticising the officiating and yet every time they went to a professional former referee, he agreed with the decisions given.  Be partisan yes, but be realistic.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 10, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			They have surprised me, but still I think Kane is too slow and Sterling has no delivery.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree which begs the question why persevere. When did you see Girou drop to Midfield for the ball. Why bring on Sterling.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			They have surprised me, but still I think Kane is too slow and Sterling has no delivery.
		
Click to expand...

How .Sterling got on before Grealish is astonishing.
He’s traveled thousands of miles and missed training .
That’s a bad decision.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 10, 2022)

Gutted. Gutted for Kane too. Yes he can be frustrating but I thought he played well tonight and just didn't see that miss coming. It will weigh heavily on him and I wouldn't wish that on anyone (except Ronaldo, Pepe et al...and now Mbappe after that gurning).

Ref was a shocker. VAR was its usual shocker. Flipping hate football sometimes.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 10, 2022)

Asian Dawn said:



			So here come all the moronic posts everywhere and in the media about Southgate not being good enough.  
And as for the ITV pundits, utter embarrassment.  Criticising the officiating and yet every time they went to a professional former referee, he agreed with the decisions given.  Be partisan yes, but be realistic.
		
Click to expand...

The ref was bad tho. The referee, working for ITV, thought it was a penalty to Kane in first half, AND thought it was a foul on Saka before the 1st goal. Is that the ref you are talking about?


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 10, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Why was Saka taken off, he was brilliant, France edged it for me, shocking foul for second penalty, why even take Maddison….
		
Click to expand...

Same old predictable subs and no visible tactical changes.


----------



## Captainron (Dec 10, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			All Argentina now aren’t we?
		
Click to expand...

No chance. Filthy dirty players 

Morocco or Croatia please


----------



## Asian Dawn (Dec 10, 2022)

"*nation vents anger at Brazilian ref who gave a string of dodgy decisions*"
Daily Mail gets off to a quick start with their lead on-line story.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

Asian Dawn said:



			"*nation vents anger at Brazilian ref who gave a string of dodgy decisions*"
Daily Mail gets off to a quick start with their lead on-line story.
		
Click to expand...

Did they mention how much his house was worth?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			I just want Messi to win a World Cup to upset the ManU Ronaldo fanbois
		
Click to expand...

Don’t mind Messi winning it.
It’s just the other horrible ones.


----------



## Captainron (Dec 10, 2022)

The clubs will be pleased that their lads get a week and a half of rest extra though…..


----------



## Piece (Dec 10, 2022)

Asian Dawn said:



			So here come all the moronic posts everywhere and in the media about Southgate not being good enough.   
And as for the ITV pundits, utter embarrassment.  Criticising the officiating and yet every time they went to a professional former referee, he agreed with the decisions given.  Be partisan yes, but be realistic.
		
Click to expand...

We must have been watching a different feed. Walton was disagreeing with most of what the ref did or didn't give. 😆


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 10, 2022)

Decent performance,but didn’t create enough chances.
Thought Saka had a good game,Foden bit disappointing for me.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 10, 2022)

Well, Premier League starts on just over a couple of weeks, so I will get back into football then. 

I have absolutely no desire to watch any of the remaining sides. Will be happy enough for Morocco or Croatia to win, but if they do, the football won't be pretty.


----------



## BrianM (Dec 10, 2022)

Just shows the strength in depth France have with the players not available 😳


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 10, 2022)

So many positives to take out of the whole tournament.
Thought this was a great chance to bring the trophy home.
No blame can be put on the manager imo,we’ve been solid from the start,yes a few blemishes but who hasn’t.
Went 1-0 down and fought back,fought back again,great spirit in the team and it seems GS has got them all believing.
Pickford once again showed he’s easily No1
Saka,Bellingham world class and should be in the tournament WC team.
Feel for Kane but when you’re not scoring many in open play you’ve got to score.
Shame but now on the Morocco train.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 10, 2022)

On a positive note, England stopped Mbappe from scoring


----------



## Piece (Dec 10, 2022)

If he had to make a sub, Rashford should have been on. Surprised Saka came off, even more surprised that Sterling came on.

We had their defence on toast but weren't brave enough. France did enough of the ugly stuff and know how to win these type of games...we don't sadly.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 10, 2022)

Oh and by the way the best player in the world was pretty much non existent.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 10, 2022)

As bad as the ref was, can we stop blaming him for England not winning.

Games are won/lost in moments and whilst i dont think France were better than  England, they were just that bit more clinical/lucky in those moments.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 10, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Oh and by the way the best player in the world was pretty much non existent.
		
Click to expand...

That's understandable seeing as he never played😉


----------



## Piece (Dec 10, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Oh and by the way the best player in the world was pretty much non existent.
		
Click to expand...

Aye. The best player in the World Cup is in the semi final. 

Amrabaat from Morocco. 🤣


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, Premier League starts on just over a couple of weeks, so I will get back into football then.

I have absolutely no desire to watch any of the remaining sides. Will be happy enough for Morocco or Croatia to win, but if they do, the football won't be pretty.
		
Click to expand...

I feel the same but know I'll watch the 3 remaining matches and probably hate every one!!


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			As bad as the ref was, can we stop blaming him for England not winning.

Games are won/lost in moments and whilst i dont think France were better than  England, they were just that bit more clinical/lucky in those moments.
		
Click to expand...

Fine margins decide these games. We had opportunities, it just didn’t go our way.

Some of the crap written on here by the armchair experts is embarrassing.


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Tell us how you really feel 🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

lol pop em back in the pram


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 10, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Fine margins decide these games. We had opportunities, it just didn’t go our way.

Some of the crap written on here by the armchair experts is embarrassing.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on. I thought England played very well in all honesty.


----------



## fundy (Dec 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Spot on. I thought England played very well in all honesty.
		
Click to expand...


Played ok for sure, bit slow and static at times (as often are), had a lot of success down the right hand side, less so the left going forward, a few mistakes at the back too. On another night that game goes our way for sure but wasnt to be


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Fine margins decide these games. We had opportunities, it just didn’t go our way.

*Some of the crap written on here by the armchair experts is embarrassing.*

Click to expand...

Big Mirrors in your place then 🙄



Stuart_C said:



			As bad as the ref was, can we stop blaming him for England not winning.

Games are won/lost in moments and whilst i dont think France were better than  England, they were just that bit more clinical/lucky in those moments.
		
Click to expand...

There were a few key moments for both teams - France took them , England didn’t - Kane when he was through on Loris and then the penalty , got to take those in the big game against the top teams and it’s something that England haven’t done for decades now 

It’s no different to 86 , 90 , 96 etc - always short against the better nations.

That’s three missed chances in the last three tournaments and it should be time for someone new to come in and look to do things differently


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 10, 2022)

As others have suggested, top evening by Walker. He was superb.

I'm going against the flow here, I'd like France to win now.


----------



## BrianM (Dec 10, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Fine margins decide these games. We had opportunities, it just didn’t go our way.

Some of the crap written on here by the armchair experts is embarrassing.
		
Click to expand...

Your an armchair expert yourself 😀


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Your an armchair expert yourself 😀
		
Click to expand...

You’re


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Big Mirrors in your place then 🙄
		
Click to expand...

Funny coming from you! 😂


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 10, 2022)

This post deserves a massive ban and I hope the powers that be dish out a long one.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 10, 2022)

Always nice to watch the game in a neutral country. That said. 
The pundits have picked up on the inept performance of the ref. No surprise there. 
Particularly the foul on Saka before France scored. 
The foul on Mount that went to VAR. 
The foul on Kane on the edge of the box. 
It was consistent rammel. 
Some of the refereeing standards and shithousery from
Some Teams have blighted this World Cup.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 10, 2022)

fundy said:



			Played ok for sure,* bit slow and static at times *(as often are), had a lot of success down the right hand side, less so the left going forward, a few mistakes at the back too. On another night that game goes our way for sure but wasnt to be
		
Click to expand...

Got to give France the respe t/credit they deserve. You're playing against a top side, its going to be tight at times and cant have it your own way.

It's about managing it right.


----------



## BrianM (Dec 10, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			You’re
		
Click to expand...

Very clever 😀
Come on France 🤣🤣


----------



## PieMan (Dec 10, 2022)

Good job France were missing Kante, Pogba and Benzema otherwise it could've been worse.........!!! 

Let's face it, going out to France in the Quarter Final was always the most likely scenario once the draw was made.


----------



## BrianM (Dec 10, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			You’re
		
Click to expand...

You talk about kid’s football from time to time and yet you seem so bitter against anyone English, what the hell is your thought process if things don’t go your way in general…..


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Very clever 😀
Come on France 🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

If you are going to try and be clever at least get the basic English right!


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 10, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			This post deserves a massive ban and I hope the powers that be dish out a long one.
		
Click to expand...

Sir Sir Sir....... 🙄🙄

Nobody likes a brown nose


----------



## BrianM (Dec 10, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			If you are going to try and be clever at least get the basic English right!
		
Click to expand...

I normally do to be fair, but I’ve had a dram 😀


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

BrianM said:



			I normally do to be fair, but I’ve had a dram 😀
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I’ve had a few Double IPAs so my spelling is probably better than normal. 😂


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Sir Sir Sir....... 🙄🙄

Nobody likes a brown nose
		
Click to expand...

Speaking of brown nosing,I see you got your customary LIKE for this post.
😂😂
Just take him to Anfield La 😂


----------



## larmen (Dec 10, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Always nice to watch the game in a neutral country. That said.
The pundits have picked up on the inept performance of the ref. No surprise there.
		
Click to expand...

I really dislike English commentators. They are very much like Terry Wogan at the Eurovision, always moaning about others. Lawro is the worst of all of them.
But I love the way English TV works with their pundits, bbc and itv. Also, if in doubt, Shearer is right.


----------



## SteveW86 (Dec 10, 2022)

Ally Mccoist has proven himself a quality commentator during the World Cup


----------



## Slime (Dec 10, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Oh and by the way the best player in the world was pretty much non existent.
		
Click to expand...

Correct, because Norway didn't qualify for the FWC.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Ally Mccoist has proven himself a quality commentator during the World Cup
		
Click to expand...

Say what? He’s awful.

Not as bad as some, but awful non the less.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Ally Mccoist has proven himself a quality commentator during the World Cup
		
Click to expand...

Yes but even Ally would think that’s a foul on Saka before their goal


----------



## SteveW86 (Dec 10, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Say what? He’s awful.

Not as bad as some, but awful non the less.
		
Click to expand...

Each to their own, but for me he is one of the best


----------



## BrianM (Dec 10, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Each to their own, but for me he is one of the best
		
Click to expand...

Best by miles so far 😀👍🏻


----------



## Jason.H (Dec 10, 2022)

I think the players put too much effort chasing the ref instead of taking up positions and carry on. Yes the ref was poor but acceptance then allows you to focus on the job in hand.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 10, 2022)

Not blaming him for us going out,just not our night imo.
But I don’t get all the hype for Declan Rice.
Bang average prem player for me.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 10, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not blaming him for us going out,just not our night imo.
But I don’t get all the hype for Declan Rice.
Bang average prem player for me.
		
Click to expand...

Mmmm harsh mate. A bit more than bang average tbf.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 10, 2022)

Can we all agree that Sam matterface is a god awful commentator


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 10, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not blaming him for us going out,just not our night imo.
But I don’t get all the hype for Declan Rice.
Bang average prem player for me.
		
Click to expand...

You don't become England's number 1 holding midfielder playing for west ham if your rubbish 

England went all out to get him off Ireland , if he was bang average they wouldnt have bothered


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 10, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Ally Mccoist has proven himself a quality commentator during the World Cup
		
Click to expand...

I love McCoist, growing up the Teddys were my 2nd team and he was the main man up there. He was brilliant on QoS and i love listening to him on Talksport. 

I'd take him over any other Co comms especially the women.


----------



## Piece (Dec 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I love McCoist, growing up the Teddys were my 2nd team and he was the main man up there. He was brilliant on QoS and i love listening to him on Talksport. 

I'd take him over any other Co comms especially the women.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, I really like McCoist. Funny lad IMHO.

Now if we are talking Dublin or Hartson....💩


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 10, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Mmmm harsh mate. A bit more than bang average tbf.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah probably is Tbf,but I don’t rate him as top tier.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

BrianM said:



			You talk about kid’s football from time to time and yet you seem so bitter against anyone English, what the hell is your thought process if things don’t go your way in general…..
		
Click to expand...

Bitter against anyone English? Not sure where you get that from.
Just don’t like the nonsense and constant negativity towards the team. Mostly from people who support teams that play in red from the wrong side of the Pennines.


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 10, 2022)

Gutted.

Plenty of players there for England going forward from here but I did think this was the one we were building towards.

 I thought Rice in particular was great today, really put himself about all over the pitch, proved to me that we don’t need two CDM’s with him on the pitch. Obviously plenty of others had great games/ tournaments too but felt that tonight was Rice’s best in an England shirt so far. 

No goals from open play tonight from us though, fair enough a few fouls which stopped us but even still.

I’m not “Southgate out” in any sort of aggressive manor but I do feel maybe it’s time for a fresh face in the camp for the Euros - or at least by the next World Cup - but I’ve not got a clue who!

Plenty of good has come from Southgate’s time in charge, all but silverware really. 

Gutted gutted gutted 😂


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



*You don't become England's number 1 holding midfielder playing for west ham if your rubbish*

England went all out to get him off Ireland , if he was bang average they wouldnt have bothered
		
Click to expand...

No, you get there because Philips was injured 😆


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 10, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			No, you get there because Philips was injured 😆
		
Click to expand...

Do feel that Rice is currently the better player but with 2 years under pep I’m excited to see what Phillips becomes.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Do feel that Rice is currently the better player but with 2 years under pep I’m excited to see what Phillips becomes.
		
Click to expand...

Back up to rodri lol


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Do feel that Rice is currently the better player but with 2 years under pep I’m excited to see what Phillips becomes.
		
Click to expand...

Rice has been great recently. I thought Philips was better at the Euros. Hopefully he gets back to full fitness and improves under Pep.

Rice, Philips and Bellingham would be an awesome midfield.


----------



## PieMan (Dec 10, 2022)

At least we can now all go back to saying the World Cup should never have been held in Qatar in the first place. God knows how we'd have coped if England had won the bloody thing.........

And Harry Kane can go back to wearing his One Love armband.

And if he's really lucky, he'll be paid shed loads to advertise pizza!!!


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 10, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Do feel that Rice is currently the better player but with 2 years under pep I’m excited to see what Phillips becomes.
		
Click to expand...

A Newcastle player to fund City buying Bellingham 😂


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 10, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Rice has been great recently. I thought Philips was better at the Euros. Hopefully he gets back to full fitness and improves under Pep.

Rice, Philips and Bellingham would be an awesome midfield.
		
Click to expand...

That's the thing with rice. Every player looks great with him because he can do the dirty work a bit more and allow them to push themselves forward


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 10, 2022)

I dont buy into the Rice hype. Good player etc but ive not seen nothing where ive gone wow what a player. 

Bellingham on the other hand🔥🔥🔥


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 10, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, Premier League starts on just over a couple of weeks, so I will get back into football then.

I have absolutely no desire to watch any of the remaining sides. Will be happy enough for Morocco or Croatia to win, but if they do, the football won't be pretty.
		
Click to expand...

Imagine a Croatia v Morocco final, the anti football final.


----------



## Red devil (Dec 10, 2022)

We could have got through tonight. We were miles better than France. 
Same old Southgate problem though, too late with the substitutions.


----------



## PieMan (Dec 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Imagine a Croatia v Morocco final, the anti football final.
		
Click to expand...

That would be horrendous. 

Hopefully Messi v Giroud final..........!!


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 10, 2022)

PieMan said:



			That would be horrendous. 

Hopefully Messi v Giroud final..........!! 

Click to expand...

I hope Argentina win it. Messi the greatest modern footballer, will have completed football.


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 10, 2022)

Gutted but it was sort of a typical England performance, loads of huff and puff but no end product, look solid but offer very little up top.

We have to be honest, the Prem hype machine makes our home grown players seem a lot better than they really are.
The world class tag is thrown at them too often and that shows when it’s required on a world stage imo.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 10, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I hope Argentina win it. Messi the greatest modern footballer, will have completed football.
		
Click to expand...

As if you’ve changed your avatar to a player who’s team have knocked your national team out of a tournament AGAIN 😂😂😂
Next time you’re playing the self petty card La 🤷‍♂️😉


----------



## Hobbit (Dec 11, 2022)

Thought the French were the better side going forward for the majority of the game but nullified by a very good England defence.

Thought the ref had a shocker for both sides, and would certainly question why VAR was needed for the 2nd penalty. If he couldn’t see something that obvious, should he have been subbed? If players performing badly get subbed, why not refs? He got too many big decisions wrong.

Walker surprised me with how well he coped with Mbappe. A little disappointed with Kane - such a big guy but doesn’t really cause much disruption and is (almost) boringly predictable. Saka had a great game against a cynical opponent, and with little protection from the ref. Bellingham has been England’s outstanding player. Rice? Was he on the pitch?


----------



## Dando (Dec 11, 2022)

Piece said:



			Yeah, I really like McCoist. Funny lad IMHO.

Now if we are talking Dublin or Hartson....💩
		
Click to expand...

I was out yesterday while the Portugal game was on so had radio 5 live on in the car.
They’ve got pat nevin as a commentator and it’s a tough listen. He sounds like the old drunk guy from The Fast Show


----------



## Dando (Dec 11, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Do feel that Rice is currently the better player but with 2 years under pep I’m excited to see what Phillips becomes.
		
Click to expand...

Another “tactical foul” master


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2022)

Hobbit said:



			Thought the French were the better side going forward for the majority of the game but nullified by a very good England defence.

Thought the ref had a shocker for both sides, and would certainly question why VAR was needed for the 2nd penalty. If he couldn’t see something that obvious, should he have been subbed? If players performing badly get subbed, why not refs? He got too many big decisions wrong.

Walker surprised me with how well he coped with Mbappe. A little disappointed with Kane - such a big guy but doesn’t really cause much disruption and is (almost) boringly predictable. Saka had a great game against a cynical opponent, and with little protection from the ref. Bellingham has been England’s outstanding player. Rice? Was he on the pitch?
		
Click to expand...

Amazing how different people see things.. I think it's because of his role to defend makes him not stand out. Doing the ugly work 

From the guardian

Declan Rice: Had his work cut out trying to mark Griezmann. Had to make a lot of interceptions and covering runs. Grew stronger as the game progressed. 8/10


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601687146955698178
#selfpity🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Hughes778 (Dec 11, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not blaming him for us going out,just not our night imo.
But I don’t get all the hype for Declan Rice.
Bang average prem player for me.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree. He is bang average. One big team shows an interest in him and the media jump on the bandwagon. Same with Maguire, Stones, Henderson and Kane. If they were at clubs lower down in the league, the media wouldn't be all over them and they wouldn't be picked for England.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Amazing how different people see things.. I think it's because of his role to defend makes him not stand out. Doing the ugly work

From the guardian

Declan Rice: Had his work cut out trying to mark Griezmann. Had to make a lot of interceptions and covering runs. Grew stronger as the game progressed. 8/10
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure Ireland will be proud of him....


----------



## Jason.H (Dec 11, 2022)

Maguire should have owned Giroud. But then again he’s their top scorer blah blah. Kane looked nervous even before the 1st pen but hey normally you’d back him every time


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2022)

Jason.H said:



			Maguire should have owned Giroud. But then again he’s their top scorer blah blah. Kane looked nervous even before the 1st pen but hey normally you’d back him every time
		
Click to expand...

I was at the bar and missed their 2nd goal, id only seen the replay. 

I thought it was Rice but when i watched the highlight's i realised it was Maguire 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601682086251089920

Oops


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I was at the bar and missed their 2nd goal, id only seen the replay.

I thought it was Rice but when i watched the highlight's i realised it was Maguire 🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Because you were looking for a reason 😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Because you were looking for a reason 😉
		
Click to expand...

Er yeah i wanted to know who gave Giroud a free header and it looked like Rice to me. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Er yeah i wanted to know who gave Giroud a free header and it looked like Rice to me. 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

End of day we can look for reasons. Griemans who played the ball in should have been off the pitch , rabiot should have been off with his constant yellow card offences 

The pen not in first half, the foul in build up 

All that but we played well , I think the entire team can hold their heads high we gave the world champs a good game we didn't go missing and nobody hide


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 11, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Can we all agree that Sam matterface is a god awful commentator
		
Click to expand...

The last 10 minutes were him revelling in England going out. It was like listening to John motson all over. So much negativity.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 11, 2022)

Dando said:



			Another “tactical foul” master
		
Click to expand...

Which is exactly what France did and what England didn’t do. ☹️


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 11, 2022)

Rice, I'm surprised at the negativity for Rice. He was all over, vacuuming up play, intercepting balls, breaking up play. Not sexy stuff but vital all the same. He is an absolute shoe in next game up.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Rice, I'm surprised at the negativity for Rice. He was all over, vacuuming up play, intercepting balls, breaking up play. Not sexy stuff but vital all the same. He is an absolute shoe in next game up.
		
Click to expand...

That's entirely the problem tho, it's not the sexy stuff 

Perfect makelele play , but it's a very under appreciated role still 

It annoys me to see him doing it so well for England because it's like this is how he used to play for us.. until he wants to be prime Gerrard and box to box. We have just caved to try and keep him 

Sod off. Stay back and do your job


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			End of day we can look for reasons. Griemans who played the ball in should have been off the pitch , rabiot should have been off with his constant yellow card offences

*The pen not in first half, the foul in build up*

All that but we played well , I think the entire team can hold their heads high we gave the world champs a good game we didn't go missing and nobody hide
		
Click to expand...

Clutching at straws here.

It wasnt a pen because the initial foul  was outside the box. 

The foul on Saka should've been given but even then there was enough oppurtunnities to win the ball back.

Pickford should be saving that shot though.

Maguire has to do better.

Blaming the ref just makes you sound stupid. 

At 2-1 down with 20 muns to go the subs were wrong and predictable.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 11, 2022)

Disappointing

5 Things from last night

Saka was great, an absolute torment
Walker also did well, Mbappe was kept pretty much locked up
The ref didn’t help England
Overall the team played well
Southgate should at least see out his contract

Morocco 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇲🇦 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Clutching at straws here.

It wasnt a pen because the initial foul  was outside the box.

The foul on Saka should've been given but even then there was enough oppurtunnities to win the ball back.

Pickford should be saving that shot though.

Maguire has to do better.

Blaming the ref just makes you sound stupid.

At 2-1 down with 20 muns to go the subs were wrong and predictable.
		
Click to expand...

That's what I'm saying you could look for reasons but even still we played well and we're unlucky not to score more

Lloris was fantastic keeping out Bellingham and he got in Kane's head for that pen 

Thought our corners weren't up to scratch


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Dec 11, 2022)

The commentator on the two occasions that England lost a goal.
'England will have to come from behind to win this now'

No Poo Sherlock


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2022)

It’s the same old story with England - they have a core of players that are good enough,  some that are outstanding and some that shouldn’t be on the plane 

England just can’t beat a top team when it matters because during the games when there are key moments they fail to deliver 

For the first 15-20 mins France midfield dominated the game , Greizmann was controlling the game and the wide players causing a lot of issues - then Rice, Henderson and Bellingham found their feet and as a three were superb , Rice does do a lot of the dirty unseen work but imo he doesn’t press enough but that’s because he is protecting a poor CB who shouldn’t be on the pitch , Walker was brilliant - Mbappe got past him a few times but with Rice , Saka and Henderson controlled him very well , Stones is solid enough - Maguire just isnt an international CB - he can head a ball but his movement, ball at his feet , game intelligence is championship standard, Shaw didn’t have a great start - seemed be exposing himself but grew into the game 

Midfield did what you want them to do once they got into - the three of them have been some of Englands best players 

The front three - Saka , wow - he was Englands Mbappe , criminal that he was taken off , Foden was quiet at times but still provided some good moments, and Kane - missed two great chances to win that game for England but he should have been replaced by Wilson 

And then there is the manager - he is half the reason why they will fall short - his insistence to stick with certain players , he poor substitutions, his inability to get the best out of some of the best players in England and some that didn’t even go on the plane 

England with a better manager would be winning that World Cup


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			They have surprised me, but still I think Kane is too slow and Sterling has no delivery.
		
Click to expand...

A perfect description of Evri


----------



## Fromtherough (Dec 11, 2022)

I can’t really argue with the outcome. Two poor goals to concede defensively and we missed a penalty. It was a tight, competitive game with the current world champions. We had chances and perhaps didn’t get the rub of the green. The ref was poor, but only a small part of the reason we didn’t win. 

What Southgate provides is a galvanised team. England have always had quality players but he’s found a way to translate that to the team. For that reason and the fact there’s no stand out successor, I think Southgate should stay. With the results going the way they did, this was a brilliant opportunity to win the entire thing. And I think that is what is hardest to swallow. We just might not be as good as the media perceive our ‘world class’ players to be. 

That said, Southgate should have been more proactive in the last half hour. The French defending was cynical and rash. Saka should have been left on and they should have brought Grealish on much earlier to draw fouls and run at their dodgy defenders.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 11, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Clutching at straws here.

*It wasnt a pen because the initial foul  was outside the box.*

The foul on Saka should've been given but even then there was enough oppurtunnities to win the ball back.

Pickford should be saving that shot though.

Maguire has to do better.

Blaming the ref just makes you sound stupid.

At 2-1 down with 20 muns to go the subs were wrong and predictable.
		
Click to expand...

I'm surprised at you not knowing the rules Stu. It doesn't matter if the initial foul is outside the box. If the foul continues into the box then it's a penalty. Where the initial foul happens is irrelevant.

Not that I'm saying I thought it should've been a penalty as I haven't yet seen a definitive angle that shows the foul was inside the box. It was close to the line but without seeing another angle I'm not sure.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 11, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s the same old story with England - they have a core of players that are good enough,  some that are outstanding and some that shouldn’t be on the plane

England just can’t beat a top team when it matters because during the games when there are key moments they fail to deliver

For the first 15-20 mins France midfield dominated the game , Greizmann was controlling the game and the wide players causing a lot of issues - then Rice, Henderson and Bellingham found their feet and as a three were superb , Rice does do a lot of the dirty unseen work but imo he doesn’t press enough but that’s because he is protecting a poor CB who shouldn’t be on the pitch , Walker was brilliant - Mbappe got past him a few times but with Rice , Saka and Henderson controlled him very well , Stones is solid enough - Maguire just isnt an international CB - he can head a ball but his movement, ball at his feet , game intelligence is championship standard, Shaw didn’t have a great start - seemed be exposing himself but grew into the game

Midfield did what you want them to do once they got into - the three of them have been some of Englands best players

The front three - Saka , wow - he was Englands Mbappe , criminal that he was taken off , Foden was quiet at times but still provided some good moments, and Kane - missed two great chances to win that game for England but he should have been replaced by Wilson

And then there is the manager - he is half the reason why they will fall short - his insistence to stick with certain players , he poor substitutions, his inability to get the best out of some of the best players in England and some that didn’t even go on the plane

England with a better manager would be winning that World Cup
		
Click to expand...

You could write on a postage stamp what you know about football and still have room for all your football achievements.
You will always pick the bad out of everything.
No one’s mentioned Mount being brought on and within a minute makes a run that wins a penalty.
Southgate brought him on.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 11, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'm surprised at you not knowing the rules Stu. It doesn't matter if the initial foul is outside the box. If the foul continues into the box then it's a penalty. Where the initial foul happens is irrelevant.

Not that I'm saying I thought it should've been a penalty as I haven't yet seen a definitive angle that shows the foul was inside the box. It was close to the line but without seeing another angle I'm not sure.
		
Click to expand...

In this day and age it was a stonewall penalty


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 11, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'm surprised at you not knowing the rules Stu. It doesn't matter if the initial foul is outside the box. If the foul continues into the box then it's a penalty. Where the initial foul happens is irrelevant.

Not that I'm saying I thought it should've been a penalty as I haven't yet seen a definitive angle that shows the foul was inside the box. It was close to the line but without seeing another angle I'm not sure.
		
Click to expand...

Don’t be to hard on him. The match officials last night didn’t know the rules either 😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'm surprised at you not knowing the rules Stu. It doesn't matter if the initial foul is outside the box. If the foul continues into the box then it's a penalty. Where the initial foul happens is irrelevant.

Not that I'm saying I thought it should've been a penalty as I haven't yet seen a definitive angle that shows the foul was inside the box. It was close to the line but without seeing another angle I'm not sure.
		
Click to expand...

The foul occurs 100% outside the box, its a freekick every single day of the week  

The only time your scenario tends to be given is when its shirt pulling and it continues into the box.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			In this day and age it was a stonewall penalty
		
Click to expand...

You'd have loads of room left on the back of the postage stamp Tone🤣🤣


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 11, 2022)

Having sat down and thought about the tournament and last night. For me nothing has changed. I do not see anything that has changed my thoughts. 
I have not one single gripe about any player that has played through the tournament. 
My gripe still Lays with GS. 
He has galvanised England. That’s his job. But what is the style of play. You have a midfield of Rice Henderson and Bellingham. I like all three players. But not together. Where is the creativity. Watching the first half hour was  painful. How many times did a midfielder show for the ball. Then we slate Kane for dropping deep. 
Look at the teams we played before last night ranked 15, 16,19,20th . There or there abouts. Of course you would expect to beat them but we failed to score in open Play v USA a game in which we were second best. 
As soon as we play a better team the outcome was the same. Again nothing from Open play with the attacking talent we have. We played our strongest 11 against a team Missing Pogba, Kante and Benzema. We are that far behind. 
I don’t slate any of the players because they are carrying Southgate. He is the fine margin that everyone talks about between winning and losing. 
His substitutions last night were mind boggling. When you wanted creativity Maddison never got a look in. Oh to have him On the park for the free kick. Why bring on Sterling when the French were fouling at will. Grealish came in for the last two mins. 
I said before this World Cup I was struggling to get excited coz i had a feeling it would end exactly like the other tournaments Southgate has managed in. Like I said. Nothing has changed.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601686609665044480
I can’t find the One ITV showed at halftime but this picture is clear as day the foul/contact was outside the box.

That is Kane halfway down to the ground aswell.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 11, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Because you were looking for a reason 😉
		
Click to expand...

Reason was .
When the ball is out wide Maguire isn’t looking at the ball or Giroud .
He’s looking at and talking to Shaw just before the cross.
Schoolboy stuff.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 11, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Which is exactly what France did and what England didn’t do. ☹️
		
Click to expand...

Yes although I don’t like that sort of thing but the very best teams do it.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 11, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes although I don’t like that sort of thing but the very best teams do it.
		
Click to expand...

As a City fan it a given that you would see it. It’s a nice way of doing the dark arts of football. Having seen Holland, Argentina etc do it then being pulled up and players going mad. Glad England don’t go to that level.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 11, 2022)

On reflection - still gutted. The ref didn't lose us the game but in key moments he got it wrong - for us. I can't think of a moment when I thought "we got away with that" but plenty on the other side.

Chuffed for Walker though who was immense. Really gutted for Kane and he must be even more so.

Subs were odd for sure and wouldn't have Sterling anywhere near that game with his lack of preparation.

Mbappe is a horrible gloating man - not unique there though. Gloating at your national side being knocked out of the World Cup is unpleasant but nothing new.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 11, 2022)

Fromtherough said:



			I can’t really argue with the outcome. Two poor goals to concede defensively and we missed a penalty. It was a tight, competitive game with the current world champions. We had chances and perhaps didn’t get the rub of the green. The ref was poor, but only a small part of the reason we didn’t win.

What Southgate provides is a galvanised team. England have always had quality players but he’s found a way to translate that to the team. For that reason and the fact there’s no stand out successor, I think Southgate should stay. With the results going the way they did, this was a brilliant opportunity to win the entire thing. And I think that is what is hardest to swallow. We just might not be as good as the media perceive our ‘world class’ players to be.

That said, Southgate should have been more proactive in the last half hour. The French defending was cynical and rash. Saka should have been left on and they should have brought Grealish on much earlier to draw fouls and run at their dodgy defenders.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I agree and for those reasons I think GS should go.
How many chances are we going to give him to get it wrong.
Managers ear their money when the chips are down, he’s not done it.


----------



## sunshine (Dec 11, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I’ve also heard it’s good but people don’t go out much. A couple friends have been out there and said there’s not a lot to see/do etc other than the actual football and fanzone events.

On pitch it’s been great!
		
Click to expand...

Atmosphere in the grounds has been rubbish compared to other tournaments, so much quieter. Started to get better in the QFs but it was dead in some of the group games.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Reason was .
When the ball is out wide Maguire isn’t looking at the ball or Giroud .
He’s looking at and talking to Shaw just before the cross.
Schoolboy stuff.
		
Click to expand...

I meant a reason to dig out Declan lol


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 11, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			As a City fan it a given that you would see it. It’s a nice way of doing the dark arts of football. Having seen Holland, Argentina etc do it then being pulled up and players going mad. Glad England don’t go to that level.
		
Click to expand...

We will always be the bridesmaid then.
It pains me to say it but we need a nasty streak .


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I meant a reason to dig out Declan lol
		
Click to expand...

I wasn’t digging him out, I was only applying your logic 🤷‍♂️


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 11, 2022)

So, who should replace Southgate?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 11, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I meant a reason to dig out Declan lol
		
Click to expand...

Me to I thought Rice played well.
One of the reasons the midfield struggle to play the ball forward is Kane is level or even behind them a lot of the time.
Good when it works, but it leaves us with no presence in the box.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			So, who should replace Southgate?
		
Click to expand...

The birds coach who won the Euros


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 11, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			So, who should replace Southgate?
		
Click to expand...

Very good question 
Imo there’s nobody 
GS has got us up there again competing late on in big comps,yes we need to finish it off.
Has any player that has been picked actually came out and questioned Southgate.
It seems to me there all playing for him.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 11, 2022)

Stuart_C said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601686609665044480
I can’t find the One ITV showed at halftime but this picture is clear as day the foul/contact was outside the box.

That is Kane halfway down to the ground aswell.
		
Click to expand...

I would say the contact is in the box.
Kanes foot is outside but his leg is inside.
The rules now are so complicated like the ball only having to break the line in the corner quadrant.

Just a genuine question as I don’t know the answer.
Player lying on the floor ,feet out the box but body inside .
Op kicks him in the head.
Is it a pen or a foul outside the area ?


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I wasn’t digging him out, I was only applying your logic 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

just to clear up.. my "logic" was rice was one of if not our best player in the euros final, taking him off for a player who played badly cost us control of the game

declans stock has again risen post this world cup as once again he has proved to do the job the manager needs from him to protect the back 4..

from the bbc

"Saka and Declan Rice were truly outstanding and while Bellingham and Phil Foden were not as influential as in previous games, especially against Senegal, this quartet will be an integral part of England's long-term future. "

I hold my hands up henderson had a good world cup. his euro perfomance was prob down to injury.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Me to I thought Rice played well.
One of the reasons the midfield struggle to play the ball forward is Kane is level or even behind them a lot of the time.
Good when it works, but it leaves us with no presence in the box.
		
Click to expand...

bellingham was allowed more freedom because he knows his defensive duties are covered and he looked lively in parts because of it

declan will never get the full backing of fans because its not the sexy assisting and scoring work


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 11, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Very good question
Imo there’s nobody
GS has got us up there again competing late on in big comps,yes we need to finish it off.
Has any player that has been picked actually came out and questioned Southgate.
It seems to me there all playing for him.
		
Click to expand...

Except Maddison he never got a minute on the pitch.
He would rather put a sub on that’s been home and back 10’000 miles approx and no training than him or Grealish, Wilson.
They won’t speak out until they write their books after finishing playing.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 11, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			just to clear up.. my "logic" was rice was one of if not our best player in the euros final, taking him off for a player who played badly cost us control of the game

declans stock has again risen post this world cup as once again he has proved to do the job the manager needs from him to protect the back 4..

from the bbc

"Saka and Declan Rice were truly outstanding and while Bellingham and Phil Foden were not as influential as in previous games, especially against Senegal, this quartet will be an integral part of England's long-term future. "

I hold my hands up henderson had a good world cup. his euro perfomance was prob down to injury.
		
Click to expand...

Yes but if he’s injured he shouldn’t be playing.!
That goes for anyone in the national team.
That’s down to the manager.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 11, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I would say the contact is in the box.
Kanes foot is outside but his leg is inside.
The rules now are so complicated like the ball only having to break the line in the corner quadrant.
		
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with you from that photo. Seems the very definition of a foul continuing into the penalty area. The defender's right leg is on the line with his left leg in front on it so it has to be in the area. The foul is the point of contact with the attacker which is Kane's shin and is clearly inside the area.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 11, 2022)

Someone's updated the ref's Wikipedia page.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 11, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			The birds coach who won the Euros
		
Click to expand...

Good shout. It would never happen but I’d give the job to Emma Hayes.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 11, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Someone's updated the ref's Wikipedia page. 
View attachment 45526

Click to expand...

We're  not taking it well are we.......


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 11, 2022)

Imurg said:



			We're  not taking it well are we.......

Click to expand...

Would any other nation take it well after the refs incompetence.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I tend to agree with you from that photo. Seems the very definition of a foul continuing into the penalty area. The defender's right leg is on the line with his left leg in front on it so it has to be in the area. The foul is the point of contact with the attacker which is Kane's shin and is clearly inside the area.
		
Click to expand...

He’s already been fouled and was going down at that point the pic shows.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 11, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			He’s already been fouled and was going down at that point the pic shows.
		
Click to expand...

.....and the foul continues into the penalty area.

We all get that you don't like England and don't want them to win but that doesn't change the rules. If that had been Mcguire on Salah in the PL you'd have been screaming for a penalty and then moaning for days if it hadn't been given.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			.....and the foul continues into the penalty area.
		
Click to expand...

Kanes gone down after the 1st tackle outside the box carrying him into the box, it’s 1 tackle not 2 so it’s still only a free kick.

if only Homer our resident ref was around to put us all right.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 11, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			bellingham was allowed more freedom because he knows his defensive duties are covered and he looked lively in parts because of it

declan will never get the full backing of fans because its not the sexy assisting and scoring work
		
Click to expand...

I always watch the defenders. Rice was very good imo.
He covers the back four well.
but to many times when the ball was wide we had nobody in the box. 
So sideways and backwards boring football.

Stones and Maguire look like they are one mistake from total mental breakdown it shows in their faces.
But watching your strikers miss chances and pens you know one mistake and your losing.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I always watch the defenders. Rice was very good imo.
He covers the back four well.
but to many times when the ball was wide we had nobody in the box.
So sideways and backwards boring football.

Stones and Maguire look like they are one mistake from total mental breakdown it shows in their faces.
But watching your strikers miss chances and pens you know one mistake and your losing.
		
Click to expand...

End of the game winning that free kick for rashford to (only just) miss was some of the most frustrating football Ive seen 

Rice playing sterling the ball only to get it back. Sorry raheem your suppose to drive into the box or play in a collegue.. rice had to drive to the bye line and just about managed to form a half decent ball in 

Why is our CDM having to create over sterling. For crying out loud


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 11, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			The birds coach who won the Euros
		
Click to expand...

Sarina Wiegman

Give her a bit of respect, she deserves it.

Her managerial record is incredible to be fair, one day soon a lady will be managing a men’s team! Only a matter of time


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Sarina Wiegman

Give her a bit of respect, she deserves it.

Her managerial record is incredible to be fair, one day soon a lady will be managing a men’s team! Only a matter of time
		
Click to expand...

I don't know , I think should happen no reason for it but the press and some fans will be disgusting 

Soon as we go out or a result doesn't go our way some sexist jib will arrive


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 11, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			End of the game winning that free kick for rashford to (only just) miss was some of the most frustrating football Ive seen

Rice playing sterling the ball only to get it back. Sorry raheem your suppose to drive into the box or play in a collegue.. rice had to drive to the bye line and just about managed to form a half decent ball in

Why is our CDM having to create over sterling. For crying out loud
		
Click to expand...

GS has a liking for Sterling.
He’s a good player on his day but Saka is so much better.
Why put him on when he had just flown home and back worrying about his family.
It’s not like we didn’t have any good players on the bench.
This proves imo GS isn’t good enough to turn a chance into winning the tournament.


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 11, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I don't know , I think should happen no reason for it but the press and some fans will be disgusting

Soon as we go out or a result doesn't go our way some sexist jib will arrive
		
Click to expand...

I’m not saying she should get the England job mate, just think she deserves the respect of being named properly 😂

And I think you’re right - it will take a very very strong woman to take the reigns of a men’s football team - at any level of the game - but there are more and more of them every day.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			.....and the foul continues into the penalty area.

We all get that you don't like England and don't want them to win but that doesn't change the rules. If that had been Mcguire on Salah in the PL you'd have been screaming for a penalty and then moaning for days if it hadn't been given.
		
Click to expand...

I knew it wouldn’t be long before that tripe was pedalled out, I just never expected it from you. I’ve been very complimentary about England over the last 3 weeks and gave them credit where it was due.

I call it as I see it and on this occassion the professional arbiter of the rules got it 50% right, it wasn’t a pen but it was 100% a free kick.

Anyway I’m off out now for lunch, a few bottles Beaujolais, Ribeye Steak au Poivre, dauphinois potatoes and Creme Brûlée😉


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 11, 2022)

As I sit here now I’m thinking - who’s Englands next striker? 

In my lifetime we have always had the standout 9.

Shearer, Owen, Rooney, Kane to name a few.

I can’t think of anyone close to that ability level in their early twenties… better pray there’s an academy lad somewhere about to burst on to the scene


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 11, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			As I sit here now I’m thinking - who’s Englands next striker?

In my lifetime we have always had the standout 9.

Shearer, Owen, Rooney, Kane to name a few.

I can’t think of anyone close to that ability level in their early twenties… better pray there’s an academy lad somewhere about to burst on to the scene
		
Click to expand...

Me neither but Kane won’t be dropped that’s part of the problem.
He won’t even take him off when the games won to give Wilson a go.

But some 16 yr old lad will be 20 by the next WC so fingers crossed GS has gone or Kane will still be in.


----------



## Fromtherough (Dec 11, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I agree and for those reasons I think GS should go.
How many chances are we going to give him to get it wrong.
Managers ear their money when the chips are down, he’s not done it.
		
Click to expand...

Who would you replace him with? Eddie Howe is potentially the stand-out candidate. If I was him though I wouldn’t take the England managers job while the Newcastle revolution is still in its infancy. The England job is a bit of a poisoned chalice. Huge expectations and an over-inflated view of at least a third of our players. Until someone delivers a major trophy everything will be seen as a failure.


----------



## Smiffy (Dec 11, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			One day soon a lady will be managing a men’s team! Only a matter of time
		
Click to expand...

Pub team I used to play for had a young girl as coach. When I signed on she said she would only play me for the first half in my first game and would pull me off at half time.
That was fantastic, because at my previous club we only got half an orange...
😱😱😱


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2022)

Smiffy said:



			Pub team I used to play for had a young girl as coach. When I signed on she said she would only play me for the first half in my first game and would pull me off at half time.
At my previous club we only got half an orange...
😱😱😱
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👏🏻

Close the thread!!


----------



## stefanovic (Dec 11, 2022)

It's coming home! It's coming home!
The plane carrying the England team after yet another failure, and yes, they have blamed it on the referee.
He didn't give the foul that led to the first France goal. Then the French had the audacity to score again.
But listening to the radio this morning I hear that England are once again favourites for the Euro's in 18 months.
By the time of the next World Cup in 2026, England will be such hot favourites the other nations would be advised not to bother.

Reasons why England will never again lift a major trophy:
The players are so detached from the rest of the population they can't speak for themselves, and are ruled over by greedy agents.
The manager has to be politically correct.
The coaching staff remove all talent and individuality from the players.
Too much expectation and too little desire.

What team have they ever beaten in the knockout stages?
Senegal, Cameroon.


----------



## Asian Dawn (Dec 11, 2022)

Belgium - the round before Cameroon.


----------



## stefanovic (Dec 11, 2022)

England's Golden Generation even with golden balls himself only got as far as the quarter finals.
Feel a bit sorry for you guys who never witnessed England winning in 1966. I did.
You will never have that experience.
My advice is don't get carried away by all the hype surrounding the team.
They are a bunch of egotistical losers.


----------



## chrisd (Dec 11, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			It's coming home! It's coming home!
The plane carrying the England team after yet another failure, and yes, they have blamed it on the referee.
He didn't give the foul that led to the first France goal. Then the French had the audacity to score again.
But listening to the radio this morning I hear that England are once again favourites for the Euro's in 18 months.
By the time of the next World Cup in 2026, England will be such hot favourites the other nations would be advised not to bother.

Reasons why England will never again lift a major trophy:
The players are so detached from the rest of the population they can't speak for themselves, and are ruled over by greedy agents.
The manager has to be politically correct.
The coaching staff remove all talent and individuality from the players.
Too much expectation and too little desire.

What team have they ever beaten in the knockout stages?
Senegal, Cameroon.
		
Click to expand...

It's quite clear that you know absolutely nothing about football


----------



## Bdill93 (Dec 11, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Me neither but Kane won’t be dropped that’s part of the problem.
He won’t even take him off when the games won to give Wilson a go.

But some 16 yr old lad will be 20 by the next WC so fingers crossed GS has gone or Kane will still be in.
		
Click to expand...

Honestly thought Kane was allergic to the box this World Cup 😂

So slow too…



Smiffy said:



			Pub team I used to play for had a young girl as coach. When I signed on she said she would only play me for the first half in my first game and would pull me off at half time.
At my previous club we only got half an orange...
😱😱😱
		
Click to expand...

The use of “young girl” I think should be avoided in future 😂 I read that so wrong


----------



## Smiffy (Dec 11, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Honestly thought Kane was allergic to the box this World Cup 😂

So slow too…



The use of “young girl” I think should be avoided in future 😂 I read that so wrong
		
Click to expand...

I meant young lady
😉😉😉


----------



## yandabrown (Dec 11, 2022)

Oh dear :-(


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601875254279917568


----------



## sunshine (Dec 11, 2022)

Fromtherough said:



			I can’t really argue with the outcome. Two poor goals to concede defensively and we missed a penalty. It was a tight, competitive game with the current world champions. We had chances and perhaps didn’t get the rub of the green. The ref was poor, but only a small part of the reason we didn’t win.

What Southgate provides is a galvanised team. England have always had quality players but he’s found a way to translate that to the team. For that reason and the fact there’s no stand out successor, I think Southgate should stay. With the results going the way they did, this was a brilliant opportunity to win the entire thing. And I think that is what is hardest to swallow. We just might not be as good as the media perceive our ‘world class’ players to be.

That said, Southgate should have been more proactive in the last half hour. The French defending was cynical and rash. Saka should have been left on and they should have brought Grealish on much earlier to draw fouls and run at their dodgy defenders.
		
Click to expand...

well done. Some perspective. 

I feel Saka was taken off because he picked up a knock or was shattered. He was outstanding.


----------



## SteveJay (Dec 11, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			GS has a liking for Sterling.
He’s a good player on his day but Saka is so much better.
Why put him on when he had just flown home and back worrying about his family.
It’s not like we didn’t have any good players on the bench.
This proves imo GS isn’t good enough to turn a chance into winning the tournament.
		
Click to expand...

Absoutely...Sterling over Maddison, the most inform attacking midfielder in the Premier, who never got a kick in Qatar. i'd have had Grealish over sterling any day too.


----------



## sunshine (Dec 11, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			England's Golden Generation even with golden balls himself only got as far as the quarter finals.
Feel a bit sorry for you guys who never witnessed England winning in 1966. I did.
You will never have that experience.
My advice is don't get carried away by all the hype surrounding the team.
They are a bunch of egotistical losers.
		
Click to expand...

This current England team is so much better than the “golden generation.”

They are technically better, much more comfortable on the ball, tactically superior because they play for each other and not themselves. 

Gary Neville was honest enough to admit this last night.


----------



## sunshine (Dec 11, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Henderson…Grrr. Kick it in the box with left foot, or kick it back to halfway with right foot.  Guess what happened.
Get him off!
		
Click to expand...

I’m loving your posts, the complete lack of understanding of football is comedy gold. 🤣

When the level of insight consists of “kick it in the box” I’m not sure how you top that.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 11, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			So, who should replace Southgate?
		
Click to expand...

Howe or Potter are the two standouts for me but I can't see why either would leave their current jobs to be England manager. It is just bad timing right now.

If Southgate stays to do the Euro's, only 18 months away, perhaps Potter will have got the boot by then, it's Chelsea after all, and he will be available.


----------



## sunshine (Dec 11, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Howe or Potter are the two standouts for me but I can't see why either would leave their current jobs to be England manager. It is just bad timing right now.

If Southgate stays to do the Euro's, only 18 months away, perhaps Potter will have got the boot by then, it's Chelsea after all, and he will be available.
		
Click to expand...

Do you mean Harry Potter? Cos we need a magician


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 11, 2022)

sunshine said:



			Do you mean Harry Potter? Cos we need a magician
		
Click to expand...

I don't think that gag quite works now, although I applaud the play on words 😆. This tournament has shown that there isn't currently an outstanding team in world football and we are up there with the best. We are consistent in tournaments now, the team is largely young and full of quality. We are very close to winning one, only a player or two short.

There are lot of big name teams, Italy, Germany, Belgium, Spain for example who would love both our recent record and squad. (Yes, I know Italy won the euros but they didn't even qualify for this tournament)


----------



## sunshine (Dec 11, 2022)

I think England and France were the best two teams in the tournament. Shame they had to meet in the QF. 

France are so strong. All their players are at top clubs like Bayern Munich and Real Madrid. They are world champions, their coach knows what is needed to win the World Cup, both as a player and manager. 

England stood toe to toe with France and did enough to win. France dominated the first half, England dominated the second half. If France looked ordinary, that was because England were so good. 

These games are often decided on the finest margins. This was so different from other England World Cup exits in the last 20 years, this is a squad that can can challenge anyone.


----------



## stefanovic (Dec 11, 2022)

sunshine said:



			I think England and France were the best two teams in the tournament. Shame they had to meet in the QF.
		
Click to expand...

True to form, we always lose to the best team who go on to win the tournament, implying England are the second best team.



			France are so strong. All their players are at top clubs like Bayern Munich and Real Madrid.
		
Click to expand...

While some of ours are at Man U.



			England stood toe to toe with France and did enough to win. France dominated the first half, England dominated the second half. If France looked ordinary, that was because England were so good.
		
Click to expand...

Same old excuse, we did enough to win.



			These games are often decided on the finest margins. This was so different from other England World Cup exits in the last 20 years, this is a squad that can can challenge anyone.
		
Click to expand...

Didn't Kane just say that? 
Let's hope we don't get to play Hungary any time soon.
6 months ago it was England 0 Hungary 4.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 11, 2022)

sunshine said:



			I’m loving your posts, the complete lack of understanding of football is comedy gold. 🤣

When the level of insight consists of “kick it in the box” I’m not sure how you top that.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, well we can have different views of the game. But it’s a fair bet that I have watched football for longer than  you have. It’s also a fair bet that you watch more nowadays football than I do.
You seem to equate not agreeing with the way the modern game is played as being the same as not understanding football. Slightly arrogant view, I think.
Yes, I despair of the modern coaching, ( just seen it in two “second division” 😀 games being played) . Same fashion of kicking it back more than forward. Frightened of making a mistake, so kick it the way you are facing with your one kicking foot and give someone else the responsibility.
Keep doing it even though the guy you are passing to is under pressure , and unable to do anything positive with it: keep doing it even though so many times such tactics have broken down in mistakes which have cost: keep doing it because I’ve been told possession is all.
The irony is that most times this ends in one of them booting the ball upfield when under pressure, whereas doing it as a planned tactic gives someone on your side a good chance of getting possession in an attacking part of the field.
But, hey ho.!

Just because I don’t agree with modern tactics , and say so, doesn’t mean I don’t understand football.
I understood it when I watched the Greaves, Charltons,Moores, Tommy Smiths, 
Lorimers, Bremners, et al.

And even though we may never agree, what I am sure of is that what I watched and admired had more honour than what I watch (sometimes) today, and more excitement and enjoyment.😀

What I will give you……the pitches are brilliant today, absolutely first class.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2022)

At the end of the day England beat- Iran , Wales and Senegal - 3 teams they should be beating comfortably, compare that to Morocco as an example- Belguim , Spain and Portugal , the team England have are very talented, there are only a few that most people wouldn’t put in the squad.

Southgate came in during a bit of a turbulent time and steady the ship, but he is a manager who was found out as a Prem manager. If England had a top manager in charge then it’s fair to say they would be Euro champs and potentially world champs. Someone said he is the countries most successful manager since Ramsey - what success is that ? He hasn’t won anything just like all those managers since Ramsey and in that period he also hasn’t managed to beat a top team when it matters and imo he isn’t a patch on Bobby Robson

If Southgate did leave - would any top club team pick him up ? Nope

England really do need to make the best of prob their best young bunch of players they have had for a number of years

Just look at the team they could have in 2/4 years

Ramsdale

TAA
Tomori
Guehi
Chillwell

Rice
Bellingham
Elliott

Foden
Rashford
Saka

Then others like

James
Gallagher
Smith Rowe
Morton
Mount
Ramsey 

it’s a bright future and it needs a quality manager to get the best out of them


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 11, 2022)

I felt England were the better team. We just didn't create enough good chances. French defenders couldn't handle Saka at all, they just fouled him at every opportunity - sadly the ref only gave the fouls about 20% of the time. I felt the trip on Kane first half was a penalty, the contact looked like it was on the line of the box, but VAR must have decided it was outside, and because of their stupid self-imposed rules they won't give a free kick even though they've already spent the time reviewing it. The ref was a joke anyway the amount he missed. Why did he even need VAR to give that or the eventual second penalty as fouls?? The feller absolutely bulldozed Mount and he wasn't going to give that? 

Kane's second penalty, woeful, but many top players have missed crucial penalties over the years. He'll just have to suck it up and move on unfortunately. It's not a time for calling out individual players, I honestly felt all of our players played well. All that talk of Mbappe and he hardly featured - I agreed with Neville that Walker is the one man you'd want to stop him and so it proved. Shame the media never mentioned Giroud, Griezmann, Dembele etc. Not exactly a one man team are they?

Can't believe people in here are slating Rice. How can you not see how important he is? He has bags of class but he actually plays within himself because he has discipline and understands his job. Him and Bellingham should be staples of this side for years to come. (Hoping Bellingham doesn't go the way of Dele Alli of course..)


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I felt England were the better team. We just didn't create enough good chances. French defenders couldn't handle Saka at all, they just fouled him at every opportunity - sadly the ref only gave the fouls about 20% of the time. I felt the trip on Kane first half was a penalty, the contact looked like it was on the line of the box, but VAR must have decided it was outside, and because of their stupid self-imposed rules they won't give a free kick even though they've already spent the time reviewing it. The ref was a joke anyway the amount he missed. Why did he even need VAR to give that or the eventual second penalty as fouls?? The feller absolutely bulldozed Mount and he wasn't going to give that?

Kane's second penalty, woeful, but many top players have missed crucial penalties over the years. He'll just have to suck it up and move on unfortunately. It's not a time for calling out individual players, I honestly felt all of our players played well. All that talk of Mbappe and he hardly featured - I agreed with Neville that Walker is the one man you'd want to stop him and so it proved. Shame the media never mentioned Giroud, Griezmann, Dembele etc. Not exactly a one man team are they?

Can't believe people in here are slating Rice. How can you not see how important he is? He has bags of class but he actually plays within himself because he has discipline and understands his job. Him and Bellingham should be staples of this side for years to come. (Hoping Bellingham doesn't go the way of Dele Alli of course..)
		
Click to expand...

I wonder had the ref given the pen would var had deemed it a "clear and obvious" error


----------



## nickjdavis (Dec 11, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			At the end of the day England beat- Iran , Wales and Senegal - 3 teams they should be beating comfortably, compare that to Morocco as an example- Belguim , Spain and Portugal , the team England have are very talented, there are only a few that most people wouldn’t put in the squad.

Southgate came in during a bit of a turbulent time and steady the ship, but he is a manager who was found out as a Prem manager. If England had a top manager in charge then it’s fair to say they would be Euro champs and potentially world champs. Someone said he is the countries most successful manager since Ramsey - what success is that ? He hasn’t won anything just like all those managers since Ramsey and in that period he also hasn’t managed to beat a top team when it matters and imo he isn’t a patch on Bobby Robson

If Southgate did leave - would any top club team pick him up ? Nope

England really do need to make the best of prob their best young bunch of players they have had for a number of years

Just look at the team they could have in 2/4 years

Ramsdale

TAA
Tomori
Guehi
Chillwell

Rice
Bellingham
Elliott

Foden
Rashford
Saka

Then others like

James
Gallagher
Smith Rowe
Morton
Mount
Ramsey

it’s a bright future and it needs a quality manager to get the best out of them
		
Click to expand...

Not a single 20-25 goal a season striker in amongst that list. That's where our problems will lie when the next World Cup comes around. As a national side we are about to suffer a period in time where we do not have a World Class striker at the top of his game and there is no one coming up on the rails to replace Kane.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Not a single 20-25 goal a season striker in amongst that list. That's where our problems will lie when the next World Cup comes around. As a national side we are about to suffer a period in time where we do not have a World Class striker at the top of his game and there is no one coming up on the rails to replace Kane.
		
Click to expand...

England have had those level of strikers over the years and it hasn’t helped - France haven’t really had , Germany - both winning the World Cup over the years. The team needs to get goals from all over the pitch - Rashford , Saka and Foden plus Bellingham etc will give you goals


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 11, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Not a single 20-25 goal a season striker in amongst that list. That's where our problems will lie when the next World Cup comes around. As a national side we are about to suffer a period in time where we do not have a World Class striker at the top of his game and there is no one coming up on the rails to replace Kane.
		
Click to expand...

Kane will still be around at the next world cup, he'll only be 33. Younger than Benzema, Lewandowski & Messi are now.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Kane will still be around at the next world cup, he'll only be 33. Younger than Benzema, Lewandowski & Messi are now.
		
Click to expand...

Will he even cross the halfway line in 4 years time? 😳

Seriously though, if he continues to move deeper, perhaps understandable as he gets older and his legs go, do we want him as our number 9? He seems to want to play a different role to that of the striker and that will only become more exaggerated by the time of the next world cup. I have a feeling that the Euro's will be his last crack at it.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Kane will still be around at the next world cup, he'll only be 33. Younger than Benzema, Lewandowski & Messi are now.
		
Click to expand...

Yes but he’s had a tough paper round 
He certainly doesn’t move like a 29 year old.


----------



## Dando (Dec 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Kane will still be around at the next world cup, he'll only be 33. Younger than Benzema, Lewandowski & Messi are now.
		
Click to expand...

With any luck he might work out where the oppositions penalty area is by then


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 11, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Yes but he’s had a tough paper round
He certainly doesn’t move like a 29 year old.
		
Click to expand...

Sheringham played till he was 40. Pace and fitness aren't the same thing.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 11, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Will he even cross the halfway line in 4 years time? 😳

Seriously though, if he continues to move deeper, perhaps understandable as he gets older and his legs go, do we want him as our number 9? He seems to want to play a different role to that of the striker and that will only become more exaggerated by the time of the next world cup. I have a feeling that the Euro's will be his last crack at it.
		
Click to expand...

Honestly bored of this type of criticism. It's just the player he is, Rooney was exactly the same. Has five more goals than Lineker got in the same number of games, and Lineker was never OUT of the penalty area. He's a world class footballer, and that means all facets of football not just goalscoring. You just need to play a system that plays to his strengths, i.e. you need wingers or another forward who can play off him and run beyond him. In this day and age teams tend to have one striker and he is expected to do a lot more than just tap the ball into the net.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Kane will still be around at the next world cup, he'll only be 33. Younger than Benzema, Lewandowski & Messi are now.
		
Click to expand...

I would hope and expect by then whilst he will be prob involved in and around the squad he won’t be starting each time. 

He has had a lot of ankle issues over the years so at 33 I don’t expect him to a main player for the England squad.


----------



## Golfmmad (Dec 11, 2022)

sunshine said:



			I think England and France were the best two teams in the tournament. Shame they had to meet in the QF. 

France are so strong. All their players are at top clubs like Bayern Munich and Real Madrid. They are world champions, their coach knows what is needed to win the World Cup, both as a player and manager. 

England stood toe to toe with France and did enough to win. France dominated the first half, England dominated the second half. If France looked ordinary, that was because England were so good. 

These games are often decided on the finest margins. This was so different from other England World Cup exits in the last 20 years, this is a squad that can can challenge anyone.
		
Click to expand...

Completely agree with this.
Fine margins indeed, Kane's chance in the box where he tried to chip over Lori's, he saved it, Kane didn't miss. Maguires header, so close. Bellingham volley that Lori's just did enough to tip over. Kane's shot that flicked off a French player straight in to loris's hands, otherwise a good chance of going in.

Having said all that England have enough young and talented players that should have done better. Foden, hugely disappointing, at one point he started pressing for a ball and when the player got ahead of him he just stopped and let him go, instead of chasing and chasing to try and get possession.
Bellingham, despite his obvious talents didn't make enough runs.
The players have to take responsibility. It can't be all Southgates fault, he puts trust in the team to get the job done.

There was lots of talk about Southgates defensive tactics being all wrong but I think last night's line up surprised a few people.
He set the team up just right but it just wasn't enough on the night.
Rub of the ball, fine margins again.

As for the future  Southgate should stay at least fot the Euros in 18 months time.

There will be youngsters coming through of course.
I've already mentioned, but it got ignored, about Levi Colwill coming through for Brighton. Mark my words, he is a great prospect IMHO.

Another 15year old that I know of has already been called up to the England youth squad. Early days I know but a great prospect but I won't name him as I don't think it fair just yet. 

Onwards and upwards. 👍


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 11, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I would hope and expect by then whilst he will be prob involved in and around the squad he won’t be starting each time.

He has had a lot of ankle issues over the years so at 33 I don’t expect him to a main player for the England squad.
		
Click to expand...

Disagree. The guy sprains an ankle and instead of missing two months he's only out for one. He's an absolute machine of fitness and I don't expect him to retire until he's at least 35. 

Obviously it's impossible to predict but in only 3 and a half years from now it's unlikely that an English striker will come through that's good enough to rival him at the age of 20 or whatever.


----------



## Slime (Dec 11, 2022)

It's just such a shame, for everybody involved, that Mason Greenwood was such a numpty, (apparently).


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Disagree. The guy sprains an ankle and instead of missing two months he's only out for one. He's an absolute machine of fitness and I don't expect him to retire until he's at least 35.

Obviously it's impossible to predict but in only 3 and a half years from now it's unlikely that an English striker will come through that's good enough to rival him at the age of 20 or whatever.
		
Click to expand...

He has had 7 ankle injuries since 2017 

Missed a total of about 30 games , add in around 10 other including 3 back ones and a muscle rupture he is far from a “machine of fitness” 

he can carry on until he is 35 if he wants but at the age of 33 I don’t expect him to be leading any line of an international team or a top team at club level. 

The Euros will be his last throw - after that any decent manager will be moving on from him and looking at the future - there are players like Elanga , Geldhart , Edwards , Delap hopefully will be flourishing


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Honestly bored of this type of criticism. It's just the player he is, Rooney was exactly the same. Has five more goals than Lineker got in the same number of games, and Lineker was never OUT of the penalty area. He's a world class footballer, and that means all facets of football not just goalscoring. You just need to play a system that plays to his strengths, i.e. you need wingers or another forward who can play off him and run beyond him. In this day and age teams tend to have one striker and he is expected to do a lot more than just tap the ball into the net.
		
Click to expand...

You might be bored of it but it doesn't mean it's not valid. Rooney became a liability for England in the end because he wasn't doing the role required. 

It comes down to how the manager wants to play. Does he want a number 9 or will he be happy with 2 10's on the pitch and have more emphasis on midfielders running past Kane? We were putting in balls last night that were entirely wasted because Kane isn't there. We either stop playing those balls or have someone who will get on the end of them. 

Kane's record is exceptional but I don't see him as the player we build the team around. Certainly not for 4 years time.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 11, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He has had 7 ankle injuries since 2017

Missed a total of about 30 games , add in around 10 other including 3 back ones and a muscle rupture he is far from a “machine of fitness”

he can carry on until he is 35 if he wants but at the age of 33 I don’t expect him to be leading any line of an international team or a top team at club level.

The Euros will be his last throw - after that any decent manager will be moving on from him and looking at the future - there are players like Elanga , Geldhart , Edwards , Delap hopefully will be flourishing
		
Click to expand...

I mean his general fitness. He returns from injuries quicker than most, and they haven't changed his game, like Owen when his hamstrings finished him off because he relied on pace, whereas Kane doesn't.

I think you're clutching at straws if you think any of those players will get anywhere near Kane's level. Kane will still be world class at 33.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 11, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Not a single 20-25 goal a season striker in amongst that list. That's where our problems will lie when the next World Cup comes around. As a national side we are about to suffer a period in time where we do not have a World Class striker at the top of his game and there is no one coming up on the rails to replace Kane.
		
Click to expand...

Our problem does not lie with the striker. Don’t get me wrong Maguire at centre half is a bigger problem Against bigger teams. The problem Lies in midfield. Where is the playmaker, the one that will
Pick up the ball and keep it moving. The team looks disjointed with GS favourite midfield.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I mean his general fitness. He returns from injuries quicker than most, and they haven't changed his game, like Owen when his hamstrings finished him off because he relied on pace, whereas Kane doesn't.

I think you're clutching at straws if you think any of those players will get anywhere near Kane's level. Kane will still be world class at 33.
		
Click to expand...

Who says they will get to his level ? He has won sweet FA being at his level - it’s not always about the ability of one player , Giroud isn’t at Kanes level. 

And World Class at 33 ?! It’s debatable for many if he is World Class now - he wouldn’t get into a world 11


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 11, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You might be bored of it but it doesn't mean it's not valid. Rooney became a liability for England in the end because he wasn't doing the role required.

It comes down to how the manager wants to play. Does he want a number 9 or will he be happy with 2 10's on the pitch and have more emphasis on midfielders running past Kane? We were putting in balls last night that were entirely wasted because Kane isn't there. We either stop playing those balls or have someone who will get on the end of them.

Kane's record is exceptional but I don't see him as the player we build the team around. Certainly not for 4 years time.
		
Click to expand...

International football is making the best of what you have, you can't exactly sign new players. Kane happens to be our best forward by a mile, so you have to play to his strengths, or put a vastly inferior player in his place. If we still had a prime Vardy knocking about that would be a viable alternative, but Wilson is only a half decent impersonation of Vardy, Toney is not bad but unproven, and the other options are nowhere near it. And if England had a Heung-Min Son to play off Kane no one would mind!


----------



## nickjdavis (Dec 11, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			England have had those level of strikers over the years and it hasn’t helped - *France haven’t really had , Germany* - both winning the World Cup over the years. The team needs to get goals from all over the pitch - Rashford , Saka and Foden plus Bellingham etc will give you goals
		
Click to expand...

Eh??????

Most of the leading German and French goalscorers of all time have played in the last 30-40 years.

So the Fench weren't much of a force until the late 90's but since then theyve had many strikers who have all played concurrently for the National team...Henry, Trezeguet, Wiltord. Benzema's career has overlapped with Henry's and Trezeguets...and then in the last decade Benzema, Giroud, Griezeman and Mbappe have all overlapped.

In the late 80's early 90s' Germany had Voller, Klinsmann and Andreas Moller who's international careers all overlapped. Then Bierhoff came along and overlapped with a couple of them. Then in the 200's they had Klose, Podolski and Gomez all playing at the same time and then Thomas Muller joined them....4 of Germanys leading all time scorers all who's international careers have overlapped for significant periods.

To suggest that France and Germanys international successes have come despite not having a wealth of top class international strikers is simply wrong.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 11, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who says they will get to his level ? He has won sweet FA being at his level - it’s not always about the ability of one player , Giroud isn’t at Kanes level.

And World Class at 33 ?! It’s debatable for many if he is World Class now - he wouldn’t get into a world 11
		
Click to expand...

It's not debatable at all for God's sake. 😂 If you don't think a player who regular bangs 20-25 goals a season in the best league is world class then there can't be many world class players around.


----------



## nickjdavis (Dec 11, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Our problem does not lie with the striker. Don’t get me wrong Maguire at centre half is a bigger problem Against bigger teams. The problem Lies in midfield. Where is the playmaker, the one that will
Pick up the ball and keep it moving. The team looks disjointed with GS favourite midfield.
		
Click to expand...

That could be a role for Kane....in exactly the same way that Gullitt dropped from a striking role, to a midfield playmaker to a sweeper dictating play....Kane does actually appear to have good forward vision and is able to pick a pass...probably because he knows the sort of pass that he himself as a striker would like to receive.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 11, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Our problem does not lie with the striker. Don’t get me wrong Maguire at centre half is a bigger problem Against bigger teams. The problem Lies in midfield. Where is the playmaker, the one that will
Pick up the ball and keep it moving. The team looks disjointed with GS favourite midfield.
		
Click to expand...

When Foden isn't tied to the left wing that's exactly what he can do, as you will know from watching him at city. There were a few occasions last night when he snuck out and suddenly he was ticking the ball over and getting involved in everything, in a positive way. He is the guy I'd be building the team around. Give him free reign to roam.


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			It's not debatable at all for God's sake. 😂 If you don't think a player who regular bangs 20-25 goals a season in the best league is world class then there can't be many world class players around.
		
Click to expand...

I would question the best League in the world line, most hyped and shown on tv league in the world maybe, best quality it ain’t.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 11, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			I would question the best League in the world line, most hyped and shown on tv league in the world maybe, best quality it ain’t.
		
Click to expand...

It is the best. The bottom teams in our league would beat the bottom teams in all the other leagues. The bottom teams in France and Spain are whipping boys for the big teams.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			Eh??????

Most of the leading German and French goalscorers of all time have played in the last 30-40 years.

So the Fench weren't much of a force until the late 90's but since then theyve had many strikers who have all played concurrently for the National team...Henry, Trezeguet, Wiltord. Benzema's career has overlapped with Henry's and Trezeguets...and then in the last decade Benzema, Giroud, Griezeman and Mbappe have all overlapped.

In the late 80's early 90s' Germany had Voller, Klinsmann and Andreas Moller who's international careers all overlapped. Then Bierhoff came along and overlapped with a couple of them. Then in the 200's they had Klose, Podolski and Gomez all playing at the same time and then Thomas Muller joined them....4 of Germanys leading all time scorers all who's international careers have overlapped for significant periods.

To suggest that France and Germanys international successes have come despite not having a wealth of top class international strikers is simply wrong.

View attachment 45535

Click to expand...

Think you have missed the point -when the major tournaments is not always about having that big scoring striker 

When France won the World Cup in 98 who was their main striker ? 

What about in 2018 ? 

You have named a lot of players - how many won World Cups or even Euros 

England have had plenty of players who have scored a lot of goals - Rooney  , Owen , Lineker and even Kane - zero tournament wins 

Would you say Giroud is at the same level as Kane ? Nope - it’s not just about having a top quality striker 


Orikoru said:



			It's not debatable at all for God's sake. 😂 If you don't think a player who regular bangs 20-25 goals a season in the best league is world class then there can't be many world class players around.
		
Click to expand...


Of course it’s debatable - for some including me the world class label gets thrown around far too easily , Kane is a top quality player but I don’t have him at the same as example Lewondonski who is world class.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			International football is making the best of what you have, you can't exactly sign new players. Kane happens to be our best forward by a mile, so you have to play to his strengths, or put a vastly inferior player in his place. If we still had a prime Vardy knocking about that would be a viable alternative, but Wilson is only a half decent impersonation of Vardy, Toney is not bad but unproven, and the other options are nowhere near it. And if England had a Heung-Min Son to play off Kane no one would mind!
		
Click to expand...

The alternatives aren't banging on the door yet, Kane is still clearly the best choice, but the next world cup is 4 years away and that's a mighty long time. Toney and abraham may continue to improve, Calvert Lewin may become the player he shows the promise to become, someone we have never heard of may come through. We simply don't know. I just don't like the gradual move back on the pitch that he's done in the last 12 months. I want my striker to be higher up the pitch, there are other players who can do the job that Kane is starting to do.


----------



## fundy (Dec 11, 2022)

The forever underrated Giroud, one helluva a career and haul of trophies some could only dream of including World Cup (and could soon be 2), Nations League, Champions League, Europa League, Italian League, French League, FA Cup


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2022)

fundy said:



			The forever underrated Giroud, one helluva a career and haul of trophies some could only dream of including World Cup (and could soon be 2), Nations League, Champions League, Europa League, Italian League, French League, FA Cup
		
Click to expand...

That was sort of the point I was trying to make badly 

Giroud will never be called world class and people won’t see him as 20 goal a season player etc but he always provides the goods for the team he is playing for and is pivotal to winning trophies for those teams.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Kane will still be around at the next world cup, he'll only be 33. Younger than Benzema, Lewandowski & Messi are now.
		
Click to expand...

Willl his ankles take it though.
Another four years of PL footy I don’t think they will.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			It is the best. The bottom teams in our league would beat the bottom teams in all the other leagues. The bottom teams in France and Spain are whipping boys for the big teams.
		
Click to expand...

the big difference there is that France and Spain and Germany and Italy have won Majors whilst the best league in the world have not. ☹️


----------



## PieMan (Dec 11, 2022)

fundy said:



			The forever underrated Giroud, one helluva a career and haul of trophies some could only dream of including World Cup (and could soon be 2), Nations League, Champions League, Europa League, Italian League, French League, FA Cup
		
Click to expand...

I loved Giroud when he was at Chelsea - just a quality player that every team needs; and more or less always comes up with an important goal.

I hope he does win another World Cup.

And he's great in the Cinch ads too........!!


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 11, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That was sort of the point I was trying to make badly

Giroud will never be called world class and people won’t see him as 20 goal a season player etc but he always provides the goods for the team he is playing for and is pivotal to winning trophies for those teams.
		
Click to expand...

Yes. And yet they still would have started Benzema ahead of him if he was fit, because he's a better player. England don't have a Giroud quality player waiting to take Kane's place though.


----------



## fundy (Dec 11, 2022)

PieMan said:



			I loved Giroud when he was at Chelsea - just a quality player that every team needs; and more or less always comes up with an important goal.

I hope he does win another World Cup.

And he's great in the Cinch ads too........!! 

Click to expand...

Was gutted when he left us, completely compounded by him joining your lot 

I assume its his reality twin doing the ads?


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 11, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			the big difference there is that France and Spain and Germany and Italy have won Majors whilst the best league in the world have not. ☹️
		
Click to expand...

That's part of the problem. Players from all over the world want to come and play in our league, relegating some of the English players to sit on benches and make up home grown quotas. (As a City fan you'll know all about that.)

Edit because I forgot: it's only in the last couple of years we're finally seeing players like Sancho, Bellingham, Tomori go and try their luck abroad.


----------



## fundy (Dec 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Yes. And yet they still would have started Benzema ahead of him if he was fit, because he's a better player. *England don't have a Giroud quality player waiting to take Kane's place though*.
		
Click to expand...


How would we know? Kane has started pretty much every international for a number of years, even the utterly pointless ones (another huge Southgate fault). Cant be another current England striker with 10 caps to his name. Giroud as the second choice for France has over 100 and ensured Benzema not been missed at all. If Kane had got injured early on we'd have had no idea how Wilson fitted into the side as hes had no game time (nor has Abraham, Toney etc etc)


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 11, 2022)

fundy said:



			How would we know? Kane has started pretty much every international for a number of years, even the utterly pointless ones (another huge Southgate fault). Cant be another current England striker with 10 caps to his name. Giroud as the second choice for France has over 100 and ensured Benzema not been missed at all. If Kane had got injured early on we'd have had no idea how Wilson fitted into the side as hes had no game time (nor has Abraham, Toney etc etc)
		
Click to expand...

Benzema did have an international exile for years though so not quite the same. Sturridge used to get a game, and Vardy occasionally but each of them had their issues (injuries for Sturridge and age for Vardy). On the flipside I'm not sure the worth of starting Wilson in warm-up games when you know he isn't going to start. International side gets limited time together and he wants to play the sort of time that's going to compete and get them playing together.


----------



## fundy (Dec 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Benzema did have an international exile for years though so not quite the same. Sturridge used to get a game, and Vardy occasionally but each of them had their issues (injuries for Sturridge and age for Vardy). On the flipside I'm not sure the worth of starting Wilson in warm-up games when you know he isn't going to start. International side gets limited time together and he wants to play the sort of time that's going to compete and get them playing together.
		
Click to expand...

Rubbish, you need to play them in international games outside of the big tournaments to see how they fit and whether they work rather than Kane insisting on playing to break goalscoring records. Same as taking Maddison having refused to look at him in a game for England in the previous few years.

Its one thing taking an up and coming kid whos come from nowhere but weve taken guys whove been at the top level for many years without taking a proper look at them in the England side despite numerous opportunities to do so (ie the Nations League)

Edit: Sturridge? What? Its more than 5 years since he played for England, (and 4 years for Vardy)


----------



## nickjdavis (Dec 11, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Think you have missed the point -when the major tournaments is not always about having that big scoring striker

When France won the World Cup in 98 who was their main striker ?

You have named a lot of players - how many won World Cups or even Euros


.
		
Click to expand...

Not always no....but more often than not it helps immensely...because if you've got someone so utterly ruthless in front of goal then that person is going to cause havoc which will help others bag their share of goals.

In '98 France's main strikers were Henry, Trezeguet with Djorkaeff and Guivarch (striker!!! ha!!!). The goals were shared around the team with defence contributing as many as midfield. Henry top scored with 3.

As for the French and German players listed....every one of them has won a major title with the following exceptions...

Papin
Wiltord (2006 world Cup Runner Up)
Benzema
Gomez (2008 European Championships Runner-Up)

The point I was making though was that England has little progression in terms of developing strikers and are pretty much always relying on one single man to get the job done (unlike France and Germany)....they get injured...who do we have in reserve? No one. and in a few years time it looks like we might not even have a "plan A striker".


----------



## PieMan (Dec 11, 2022)

fundy said:



			Was gutted when he left us, completely compounded by him joining your lot 

I assume its his reality twin doing the ads?
		
Click to expand...

Yep!

Think his transfer fee to us was a steal as well!!!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2022)

fundy said:



			Rubbish, you need to play them in international games outside of the big tournaments to see how they fit and whether they work rather than Kane insisting on playing to break goalscoring records. Same as taking Maddison having refused to look at him in a game for England in the previous few years.

Its one thing taking an up and coming kid whos come from nowhere but weve taken guys whove been at the top level for many years without taking a proper look at them in the England side despite numerous opportunities to do so (ie the Nations League)

Edit: Sturridge? What? Its more than 5 years since he played for England, (and 4 years for Vardy)
		
Click to expand...

spot on - Kane plays every single time he is fit for England regardless of the opponent and the standing of the game 

Southgate doesn’t have the thinking or the bottle to put him out of the line up whilst they look at others - there are plenty of players who should have been given a run out over the last 2/3 years instead of Kane in many of the friendlies or nations league games - Wilson is a perfect example , Ings, Watkins , Toney , DCL etc. 


nickjdavis said:



			Not always no....but more often than not it helps immensely...because if you've got someone so utterly ruthless in front of goal then that person is going to cause havoc which will help others bag their share of goals.

In '98 France's main strikers were Henry, Trezeguet with Djorkaeff and Guivarch (striker!!! ha!!!). The goals were shared around the team with defence contributing as many as midfield. Henry top scored with 3.

As for the French and German players listed....every one of them has won a major title with the following exceptions...

Papin
Wiltord (2006 world Cup Runner Up)
Benzema
Gomez (2008 European Championships Runner-Up)

The point I was making though was that England has little progression in terms of developing strikers and are pretty much always relying on one single man to get the job done (unlike France and Germany)....they get injured...who do we have in reserve? No one. and in a few years time it looks like we might not even have a "plan A striker".
		
Click to expand...

We don’t know who is in reserve because Southgate only ever plays Kane regardless of the game , he doesn’t allow others to show what they can do , he relies far too heavily on Kane. The best thing for England might actually be for Kane to miss out for a couple of months and see if Southgate has the ability to adjust his tactics around others


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 11, 2022)

fundy said:



			Rubbish, you need to play them in international games outside of the big tournaments to see how they fit and whether they work rather than Kane insisting on playing to break goalscoring records. Same as taking Maddison having refused to look at him in a game for England in the previous few years.

Its one thing taking an up and coming kid whos come from nowhere but weve taken guys whove been at the top level for many years without taking a proper look at them in the England side despite numerous opportunities to do so (ie the Nations League)

Edit: Sturridge? What? Its more than 5 years since he played for England, (and 4 years for Vardy)
		
Click to expand...

Mentioned Sturridge and Vardy because they were actually good enough to rival Kane. Nobody since them has been.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 11, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			I would question the best League in the world line, most hyped and shown on tv league in the world maybe, best quality it ain’t.
		
Click to expand...

Which league is the best in your opinion?


----------



## fundy (Dec 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Mentioned Sturridge and Vardy because they were actually good enough to rival Kane. Nobody since them has been.
		
Click to expand...

Its not about rivalling him as such but about having a back up who is integrated into the side and system if Kane gets injured, or being valuable as a sub later in games, seeing how they fit into the side, whether they can step up to international football etc

Weve completely pigeon holed ourselves into Kane playing every minute of every game, even when clearly out on his feet, because we dont have another tried and tested option because hes played every game for several years, many of which he shouldve been nowhere near for the long term benefit of the squad and side


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Mentioned Sturridge and Vardy because they were actually good enough to rival Kane. Nobody since them has been.
		
Click to expand...

Sturridge? Mate you’ve lost the plot 🤣


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 11, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Sturridge? Mate you’ve lost the plot 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Don't you remember him before all the injuries started?? He would have been incredible.


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Don't you remember him before all the injuries started?? He would have been incredible.
		
Click to expand...

He was good when Suarez was carrying him, that’s about it iirc.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Sturridge? Mate you’ve lost the plot 🤣
		
Click to expand...

At one point he was the one .. before his injuries he was class


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 11, 2022)

fundy said:



			Its not about rivalling him as such but about having a back up who is integrated into the side and system if Kane gets injured, or being valuable as a sub later in games, seeing how they fit into the side, whether they can step up to international football etc

Weve completely pigeon holed ourselves into Kane playing every minute of every game, even when clearly out on his feet, because we dont have another tried and tested option because hes played every game for several years, many of which he shouldve been nowhere near for the long term benefit of the squad and side
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree.
It leads me to think is GS asking him to drop this deep, or does Kane just take it upon himself.
We don’t have a Son to get past him and with GS playing two holding midfield players most of the time Kane being so deep leaves us with an empty penalty area most of the time.
Bellingham did get up there a few times so maybe in time this might work.
I am sure the op CBs love seeing Kane on the halfway line.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 11, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Totally agree.
It leads me to think is GS asking him to drop this deep, or does Kane just take it upon himself.
We don’t have a Son to get past him and with GS playing two holding midfield players most of the time Kane being so deep leaves us with an empty penalty area most of the time.
Bellingham did get up there a few times so maybe in time this might work.
I am sure the op CBs love seeing Kane on the halfway line.
		
Click to expand...

Kane spent the entire of the season before last dropping deep auditioning for peps city team as he loves a striker to bring others into the game 

Didn't get the move and seems to Prefer playing like this now


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 11, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Kane spent the entire of the season before last dropping deep auditioning for peps city team as he loves a striker to bring others into the game

Didn't get the move and seems to Prefer playing like this now
		
Click to expand...

Southgate is no Pep though.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 11, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Kane spent the entire of the season before last dropping deep auditioning for peps city team as he loves a striker to bring others into the game

Didn't get the move and seems to Prefer playing like this now
		
Click to expand...

Kane has played this way for like 6 years at least. When Dele Alli was good for us, he was playing as an advanced number 10 making runs off of Kane when he dropped deep. He didn't start doing it to try and woo Pep. 🤣🤣


----------



## RichA (Dec 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			International football is making the best of what you have, you can't exactly sign new players. Kane happens to be our best forward by a mile, so you have to play to his strengths, or put a vastly inferior player in his place. If we still had a prime Vardy knocking about that would be a viable alternative, but Wilson is only a half decent impersonation of Vardy, Toney is not bad but unproven, and the other options are nowhere near it. And if England had a Heung-Min Son to play off Kane no one would mind!
		
Click to expand...

He's a good striker but I think he's even better in a support role. He has great vision when it comes to providing a killer final pass - it's just rarely been used in an England team.  Over the coming years he could move into an attacking midfield position and feed the younger guys. He's already pretty good at tracking back when he needs to.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 11, 2022)

RichA said:



			He's a good striker but I think he's even better in a support role. He has great vision when it comes to providing a killer final pass - it's just rarely been used in an England team.  Over the coming years he could move into an attacking midfield position and feed the younger guys. He's already pretty good at tracking back when he needs to.
		
Click to expand...

I think on the odd occasion Mourinho actually played him there with Son as the central striker. I'm not against it at all.


----------



## Captainron (Dec 12, 2022)

Tottenham must be crying over the money they have “lost” on Kanes sale price in this World Cup.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 12, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Kane has played this way for like 6 years at least. When Dele Alli was good for us, he was playing as an advanced number 10 making runs off of Kane when he dropped deep. He didn't start doing it to try and woo Pep. 🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

More so in that season for sure ... He used to play in the box


----------



## Dando (Dec 12, 2022)

Captainron said:



			Tottenham must be crying over the money they have “lost” on Kanes sale price in this World Cup.
		
Click to expand...

Apparently he’s now 5th prize in the local church’s Xmas tombola


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 12, 2022)

Captainron said:



			Tottenham must be crying over the money they have “lost” on Kanes sale price in this World Cup.
		
Click to expand...

Pretty clear we don't want to sell him and never have.


----------



## Voyager EMH (Dec 12, 2022)

I take it that England are equal with Brazil, Portugal and Holland.

Not as good as France, Argentina, Croatia and Morocco.

But much better than Spain, Belgium, Germany and ... er ... Italy. Let those countries do the moaning about their players and manager.

Just like golf - its the scores that count - not a perception of how good the players are.

Morocco have got past Belgium, Spain and Portugal. I'd love to see them to add France to that tally.


----------



## Slime (Dec 12, 2022)

As I've said this before, I'd replace Southgate and Kane with Brendan McCullum and Ben Stokes.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 12, 2022)

Voyager EMH said:



			I take it that England are equal with Brazil, Portugal and Holland.

Not as good as France, Argentina, Croatia and Morocco.

But much better than Spain, Belgium, Germany and ... er ... Italy. Let those countries do the moaning about their players and manager.

Just like golf - its the scores that count - not a perception of how good the players are.

Morocco have got past Belgium, Spain and Portugal. I'd love to see them to add France to that tally.
		
Click to expand...

A Morocco World Cup win would be truly spectacular. A France Argentina final wouldn't be though. Would be the all time biggest shock if Morocco won it I think, beyond Greece & Denmark winning the Euros.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 12, 2022)

Voyager EMH said:



			I take it that England are equal with Brazil, Portugal and Holland.

Not as good as France, Argentina, Croatia and Morocco.

But much better than Spain, Belgium, Germany and ... er ... Italy. Let those countries do the moaning about their players and manager.

Just like golf - its the scores that count - not a perception of how good the players are.

Morocco have got past Belgium, Spain and Portugal. I'd love to see them to add France to that tally.
		
Click to expand...

I like it that Morocco have beaten both their northern European neighbours, Spain and Portugal. Also beaten Belgium. If they can beat France, they've pretty much conquered the mainland of Western Europe.


----------



## Captainron (Dec 12, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Pretty clear we don't want to sell him and never have.
		
Click to expand...

Every single player is for sale at the right price as they are assets. If a continental team came in for him with the right bid then it would be bon voyage...money in the bank like they did with Bale. Over £100M was bandied about as a valuation but that would now be much much lower. 

So maybe his lesser performance at this WC means that he is more likely to stay at Tottenham now?


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 12, 2022)

Captainron said:



			Every single player is for sale at the right price as they are assets. If a continental team came in for him with the right bid then it would be bon voyage...money in the bank like they did with Bale. Over £100M was bandied about as a valuation but that would now be much much lower.

*So maybe his lesser performance at this WC means that he is more likely to stay at Tottenham now?*

Click to expand...

Who knows? Will the disappointment spur (pardon the pun) him on to try and get his potential last chance of a lucrative move. to a club more likely to win trophies than Spurs? Or, will he decide that he will just settle down at Spurs, hope for a minimum of 2 more England tournaments?

As far as I understand it, the biggest obstacle in Kane getting his move last time was the length of contract he signed, with no buy out clause (or if there was, it must have been mega high?), and so Spurs held all the cards, and just said a firm No. Spurs grip on Harry Kane will get weaker and weaker, unless he decides to sign another contract extension with no clauses giving him realistic ways out.

I think Kane is an incredible player. I would have thought opposing defenders would much rather he just stayed in and around the box, as it would be easier to mark him. Sure, if he gets chances, he can be clinical, but he'd need a team around him to create those chances. England don't seem like a team that just fire in crosses, or constantly looking for that one player in the box to score their goals. They have numerous attacking players who can score goals, and therefore they can share the burden of getting on the score sheet. The fact Kane can drop deep and play pivotal roles in the build up is a crucial ingredient to England and the players they have, and defenders must find it really tough try and stop it.

So, I'm sure there would be plenty of top clubs / managers who would absolutely love to have Kane in their team. And, if he becomes available at a good price, then he is bound to get offers. So, unless Spurs start winning the league / champions league asap, I can personally see him going to try a new challenge, freshen things up, keep on his toes.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 12, 2022)

Kane will prob need to make a choice this summer - stay and be a one man club , prob be the clubs top goalscorer but win nothing 

Or take the move to a Bayern Munich etc  and win trophies


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 12, 2022)

Captainron said:



			Every single player is for sale at the right price as they are assets. If a continental team came in for him with the right bid then it would be bon voyage...money in the bank like they did with Bale. Over £100M was bandied about as a valuation but that would now be much much lower.

So maybe his lesser performance at this WC means that he is more likely to stay at Tottenham now?
		
Click to expand...

We already rejected City when they wouldn't go as high as £100m so why would we change tact and flog him for less when we obviously want to keep him? I have no idea what you're talking about.

I already felt once City were out of the running that his options were limited anyway. I feel he wants to stay in England and beat the Shearer Prem record, but City won't be interested, I can't see Liverpool being interested really, we would likely refuse to sell to Arsenal or Chelsea and I can't see him jumping ship to them. That does leave Man Utd as the only viable option, I don't know whether he'd really see them as more likely to win a trophy than us at this stage.

Either way none of this is affected by him missing one penalty in the World Cup. 

Edit: What do you mean lesser performance by the way? For goals + assists only two people have more than him, Mbappe & Messi. He was a key player for England, all of our attacks went through him at some point.


----------



## stefanovic (Dec 12, 2022)

sunshine said:



			This current England team is so much better than the “golden generation.”
		
Click to expand...

Based on the fact that one player left the squad and returned home because his jewels were nicked, does that make them the diamond generation?


----------



## PNWokingham (Dec 12, 2022)

Slime said:



			As I've said this before, I'd replace Southgate and Kane with Brendan McCullum and Ben Stokes.  

Click to expand...

Mick Lynch is very good at getting the best out of strikers!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 12, 2022)

PNWokingham said:



			Mick Lynch is very good at getting the best out of strikers!
		
Click to expand...

Kane won’t stay on the picket line though ,he would be over the other side of the road.


----------



## PNWokingham (Dec 12, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Kane won’t stay on the picket line though ,he would be over the other side of the road.
		
Click to expand...

Searching for the elusive gold at club and country!


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 12, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Based on the fact that one player left the squad and returned home because his jewels were nicked, does that make them the diamond generation?
		
Click to expand...

No it makes it a crass comment about someone who had there house robbed. ☹️


----------



## Crazyface (Dec 12, 2022)

Is anyone going to bother watching from here on in? France v Morocco. boring game. France win. Argies v Croatia. boring game Argies win.

Also, Morocco were a shocking joke in attack. I've never laughed so much watching an international, lets not forget that, INTERNATIONAL level, with their incompetence around the penalty area. I've seen pub teams play better. In fact, childrens teams play better. 

Final France v Argies. Who cares?


----------



## GreiginFife (Dec 12, 2022)

Crazyface said:



			Is anyone going to bother watching from here on in? France v Morocco. boring game. France win. Argies v Croatia. boring game Argies win.

Also, Morocco were a shocking joke in attack. I've never laughed so much watching an international, lets not forget that, INTERNATIONAL level, with their incompetence around the penalty area. I've seen pub teams play better. In fact, childrens teams play better.

Final France v Argies. Who cares?
		
Click to expand...

They’re the ones in the semi-finals, right? Just checking for a football fan.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 12, 2022)

Crazyface said:



			Is anyone going to bother watching from here on in? France v Morocco. boring game. France win. Argies v Croatia. boring game Argies win.

Also, Morocco were a shocking joke in attack. I've never laughed so much watching an international, lets not forget that, INTERNATIONAL level, with their incompetence around the penalty area. I've seen pub teams play better. In fact, childrens teams play better. 

Final France v Argies. Who cares?
		
Click to expand...

France v a ex French colonial colony. No needle there then 😉


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 12, 2022)

Crazyface said:



			Is anyone going to bother watching from here on in? France v Morocco. boring game. France win. Argies v Croatia. boring game Argies win.

Also, Morocco were a shocking joke in attack. I've never laughed so much watching an international, lets not forget that, INTERNATIONAL level, with their incompetence around the penalty area. I've seen pub teams play better. In fact, childrens teams play better.

Final France v Argies. Who cares?
		
Click to expand...

Morocco and Croatia have won plenty of games between them that they weren't supposed to win..


----------



## fundy (Dec 12, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			France v a ex French colonial colony. No needle there then 😉
		
Click to expand...


Over 2,000 Police on the Paris streets that night on all accounts. Theyre not expecting a quiet night


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 12, 2022)

Crazyface said:



			Is anyone going to bother watching from here on in? France v Morocco. boring game. France win. Argies v Croatia. boring game Argies win.

Also, Morocco were a shocking joke in attack. I've never laughed so much watching an international, lets not forget that, INTERNATIONAL level, with their incompetence around the penalty area. I've seen pub teams play better. In fact, childrens teams play better.

Final France v Argies. Who cares?
		
Click to expand...

Is that the same Morocco who beat 

Belguim 
Spain 
Portugal 

Sorry asking for a friend 🙄


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 12, 2022)

Crazyface said:



			Is anyone going to bother watching from here on in? France v Morocco. boring game. France win. Argies v Croatia. boring game Argies win.

Also, Morocco were a shocking joke in attack. I've never laughed so much watching an international, lets not forget that, INTERNATIONAL level, with their incompetence around the penalty area. I've seen pub teams play better. In fact, childrens teams play better.

Final France v Argies. Who cares?
		
Click to expand...

Well, you play golf. So you know, it isn’t how ,it’s how many.😉


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 12, 2022)

Crazyface said:



			Is anyone going to bother watching from here on in? France v Morocco. boring game. France win. Argies v Croatia. boring game Argies win.

Also, Morocco were a shocking joke in attack. I've never laughed so much watching an international, lets not forget that, INTERNATIONAL level, with their incompetence around the penalty area. I've seen pub teams play better. In fact, childrens teams play better.

Final France v Argies. Who cares?
		
Click to expand...

I thought it was over


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 12, 2022)

On the basis that 7pm is usually rubbish on TV I might watch the first half of the matches. Or I'll watch Love Actually again...and again...and again!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 12, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			On the basis that 7pm is usually rubbish on TV I might watch the first half of the matches. Or I'll watch Love Actually again...and again...and again!
		
Click to expand...

Argentina or Emerdale ?
I will be putting the decorations up.


----------



## Golfmmad (Dec 12, 2022)

I'd like to see Croatia v Morocco.
Argentina are nasty and the way they danced around Holland when they were clearly distraught was very unsporting like.
France, well just because they are France.
Although I have to say they went up in my estimation by the sporting way that they commiserated with us after the game.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 12, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			On the basis that 7pm is usually rubbish on TV I might watch the first half of the matches. Or I'll watch Love Actually again...and again...and again!
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂😂
“I am the Christmas octopus”


----------



## Golfmmad (Dec 12, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			I'd like to see Croatia v Morocco.
Argentina are nasty and the way they danced around Holland when they were clearly distraught was very unsporting like.
France, well just because they are France.
Although I have to say they went up in my estimation by the sporting way that they commiserated with us after the game.
		
Click to expand...

Oh, and I'll be watching both games. 👍


----------



## sunshine (Dec 12, 2022)

I think a repeat of the 2018 final is quite likely.

I always want the winner to be a team that plays quality football - so France is the only team left. I'd also like France to pummel both opponents in the semi and final to support my theory that England were the second best team at the tournament


----------



## Crazyface (Dec 13, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I thought it was over

Click to expand...

It is now!

Aww come on that had to said.😁


----------



## Crazyface (Dec 13, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Morocco and Croatia have won plenty of games between them that they weren't supposed to win..
		
Click to expand...

Mr Mourinho must be smiling and telling everyone, I taught them everything they know....lol....well not actually.


----------



## Crazyface (Dec 13, 2022)

And Croatia with their obvious skill and passion, why wait until they are made to attack. Why not attack scores goals a cruise through the rest of the game? I'm sure their fellow countrymen would enjoy their games more. The stress levels must be very dangerous. Although the release must be amazing.


----------



## fundy (Dec 13, 2022)

Just to show that England footballers can be nice guys too 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602014612660142081


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 13, 2022)

I’ll watch.  After all it’s only once every four years that WC semis and a final happens.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 13, 2022)

fundy said:



			Just to show that England footballers can be nice guys too 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602014612660142081

Click to expand...

Must be fake news. After all, if you listen to many of the educated, objective views in these forums, footballers are highly paid morons, who could never be considered role models, or decent human beings in any way, shape or form.

Unless....some of these views are based on bias, and some of us normal people like to think of footballers as bad people, because it makes us feel better about our lives and the fact we are not earning millions and kicking a football about for a living. After all, we may not have the wealth or job satisfaction, we may not have many adoring fans, but at least we can label ourselves as better human beings  . All while some of us spend a considerable amount of our times doing the honourable thing, and slagging off any famous person the moment the slightest opportunity presents itself


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Must be fake news. After all, if you listen to many of the educated, objective views in these forums, footballers are highly paid morons, who could never be considered role models, or decent human beings in any way, shape or form.

Unless....some of these views are based on bias, and some of us normal people like to think of footballers as bad people, because it makes us feel better about our lives and the fact we are not earning millions and kicking a football about for a living. After all, we may not have the wealth or job satisfaction, we may not have many adoring fans, but at least we can label ourselves as better human beings  . All while some of us spend a considerable amount of our times doing the honourable thing, and slagging off any famous person the moment the slightest opportunity presents itself 

Click to expand...

Have I missed some posts where people have called them “highly paid morons who can’t be role models” 🤷‍♂️

As for bias - as previously asked - do you have big mirrors in your house 🤷‍♂️

I know you post some trash but that’s up there taking a big prize 

Footballers are human beings - some will act poorly , it’s been seen enough times , look at some of their actions during lockdown - but that’s not unique to footballers , many other people act like idiots and are selfish in their attitude - that’s just being human and there will always be people that don’t act that way and are a bit more caring and considerate- again human nature not limited to footballers.

When people talk about footballers are role models I suspect most are looking at how they act when they are playing the sport as opposed to what they do off the field ( even if some do embaresses themselves)


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Have I missed some posts where people have called them “highly paid morons who can’t be role models” 🤷‍♂️

As for bias - as previously asked - do you have big mirrors in your house 🤷‍♂️

I know you post some trash but that’s up there taking a big prize

Footballers are human beings - some will act poorly , it’s been seen enough times , look at some of their actions during lockdown - but that’s not unique to footballers , many other people act like idiots and are selfish in their attitude - that’s just being human and there will always be people that don’t act that way and are a bit more caring and considerate- again human nature not limited to footballers.

When people talk about footballers are role models I suspect most are looking at how they act when they are playing the sport as opposed to what they do off the field ( even if some do embaresses themselves)
		
Click to expand...

Funny it is you that has reacted to that. Guilty conscience? Feeling defensive?


----------



## RichA (Dec 13, 2022)

Can't you two gaslight each other in private? It's fairly tedious having to scroll through it to find stuff about the World Cup.


----------



## spongebob59 (Dec 13, 2022)

Someone took a punt


----------



## paddyc (Dec 13, 2022)

Comedy gold  from the Croatia defence.


----------



## Dando (Dec 13, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Comedy gold  from the Croatia defence.
		
Click to expand...

just needed the Benny hill theme tune


----------



## adam6177 (Dec 13, 2022)

Can't believe what I'm hearing from the pundits at half time.  The most stone wall penalty I've seen in yonks... 100% if that's a man utd player running through on goal in the prem then g Neville is baying for blood.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Can't believe what I'm hearing from the pundits at half time.  The most stone wall penalty I've seen in yonks... 100% if that's a man utd player running through on goal in the prem then g Neville is baying for blood.
		
Click to expand...

That means if the keeper dosnt get a touch on the ball all the striker has to do is run into him and it’s a penalty.
That’s never a penalty in a million years .
Peter Walton omg.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			That means if the keeper dosnt get a touch on the ball all the striker has to do is run into him and it’s a penalty.
That’s never a penalty in a million years .
Peter Walton omg.
		
Click to expand...

It’s a clear penalty all day long , if the keeper doesn’t get the ball he takes the player out and then stops him from going on to score - I’m staggered that anyone can think it’s not a penalty


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Comedy gold  from the Croatia defence.
		
Click to expand...

Shocking.
They scored from a Croatia corner.
If you push your defenders up you can’t lose the ball like that.


----------



## Fade and Die (Dec 13, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			That means if the keeper dosnt get a touch on the ball all the striker has to do is run into him and it’s a penalty.
That’s never a penalty in a million years .
Peter Walton omg.
		
Click to expand...

It’s simple, if you miss the ball and take the player out it’s a foul. Anywhere on the pitch.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s a clear penalty all day long , if the keeper doesn’t get the ball he takes the player out and then stops him from going on to score - I’m staggered that anyone can think it’s not a penalty
		
Click to expand...

The keeper is standing still.
Striker runs into him .
Where is the keeper expected to go he has to try and save it.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			The keeper is standing still.
Striker runs into him .
Where is the keeper expected to go he has to try and save it.
		
Click to expand...

How can he be standing still when he tried to get the ball 🤷‍♂️ - he didn’t get the ball and got the man instead


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			It’s simple, if you miss the ball and take the player out it’s a foul. Anywhere on the pitch.
		
Click to expand...

The striker runs into him.
You don’t have to move out of the way. He had both feet on the ground.


----------



## Slime (Dec 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s a clear penalty all day long , *if the keeper doesn’t get the ball he takes the player out *and then stops him from going on to score - I’m staggered that anyone can think it’s not a penalty
		
Click to expand...

I didn't see it as the 'keeper taking the player out, the striker took himself out.
The 'keeper made no move towards the striker once the ball had been kicked, the striker ran into the 'keeper.
Never a penalty in my world.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How can he be standing still when he tried to get the ball 🤷‍♂️ - he didn’t get the ball and got the man instead
		
Click to expand...

He came out but planted his feet ,he wasn’t still moving when the striker ran into him.


----------



## Dando (Dec 13, 2022)

Lee Dixon saying the keeper tried to win the ball.

What pearls of wisdom will we get next? Night follows day? The sun is warm?


----------



## Slime (Dec 13, 2022)

Dando said:



			Lee Dixon saying the keeper tried to win the ball.

What pearls of wisdom will we get next? *Night follows day? *The sun is warm?
		
Click to expand...

I thought day followed night.


----------



## Dando (Dec 13, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			He came out but planted his feet ,he wasn’t still moving when the striker ran into him.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe keepers need to be like those in subbuteo


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2022)

How many penalty’s is there going to be when a keeper dosnt get the ball but there’s contact if that’s a penalty.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 13, 2022)

I thought it was a harsh penalty. 

I’d be annoyed if it was given against me, but damn sure I’d be claiming for it if it happened to me.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			How many penalty’s is there going to be when a keeper dosnt get the ball but there’s contact if that’s a penalty.
		
Click to expand...

If the Keeper is spreading himself and going for the ball and misses and makes contact with the player then every single time it will be a penalty.

Anytime that’s happened it’s a foul


----------



## Dando (Dec 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If the Keeper is spreading himself and going for the ball and misses and makes contact with the player then every single time it will be a penalty.

Anytime that’s happened it’s a foul
		
Click to expand...

but the player ran into a stationary keeper


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2022)

Dando said:



			but the player ran into a stationary keeper
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602757336400945152
He wasn’t stationary - he made himself bigger to try and get the ball , he missed and got the player


----------



## adam6177 (Dec 13, 2022)

Seems to me the only way the striker could have NOT run into the keeper was by not trying to get a strike on goal.

Well there's a new one to me... You're only allowed to shoot if you make sure you dodge anyone trying to stop you scoring.


----------



## Fade and Die (Dec 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602757336400945152
He wasn’t stationary - he made himself bigger to try and get the ball , he missed and got the player
		
Click to expand...

Surely that’s the end of the argument?


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 13, 2022)

This Messi kid has potential.


----------



## nickjdavis (Dec 13, 2022)

could have been a Ballerina....pure genius.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 13, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Surely that’s the end of the argument?
		
Click to expand...

Give it a week and you will have everyone bored by then


----------



## srixon 1 (Dec 13, 2022)

The pundits will be needing a box of tissues now. We’ll never hear the end of it.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 13, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			could have been a Ballerina....pure genius.
		
Click to expand...

It wasn’t genius though was it.
Just very good play 
Lee Dixon is going wax lyrical with everything Messi does,to me it’s getting boring.


----------



## Slime (Dec 13, 2022)

Yeah, it was a tremendous piece of skill for the assist.


----------



## srixon 1 (Dec 13, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			It wasn’t genius though was it.
Just very good play
Lee Dixon is going wax lyrical with everything Messi does to me it’s getting boring.
		
Click to expand...

He’s good, but I’d like to see him try doing the same on the pitches that Bestie used to do it on.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 13, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			It wasn’t genius though was it.
Just very good play
Lee Dixon is going wax lyrical with everything Messi does,to me it’s getting boring.
		
Click to expand...

The genius is how easy he makes it look and how often he does these things.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			could have been a Ballerina....pure genius.
		
Click to expand...

He is brilliant to watch - reminds me of that 86 WC where Maradona carried the team to the win


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 13, 2022)

srixon 1 said:



			He’s good, but I’d like to see him try doing the same on the pitches that Bestie used to do it on.
		
Click to expand...

Or if Bestie had to play against the athletic, super fit defenders Messi has to play against (P.S. I love Georgie Best)


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 13, 2022)

srixon 1 said:



			He’s good, but I’d like to see him try doing the same on the pitches that Bestie used to do it on.
		
Click to expand...

And I like to see Bestie do what he did at the pace the modern game is played at for one game, never mind 50 or 60 games a season for over a decade. 

Messi probably grew up playing on awful surfaces. Many of the worlds best do. He’d be as good on any pitch. A poor pitch would probably only make it easier for him to stand out.


----------



## Slime (Dec 13, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			And I like to see Bestie do what he did at the pace the modern game is played at for one game, never mind 50 or 60 games a season for over a decade.

Messi probably grew up playing on awful surfaces. Many of the worlds best do. He’d be as good on any pitch. A poor pitch would probably only make it easier for him to stand out.
		
Click to expand...

Lets not forget that, in Best's era, the throat high tackle was not discouraged.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 13, 2022)

srixon 1 said:



			He’s good, but I’d like to see him try doing the same on the pitches that Bestie used to do it on.
		
Click to expand...

Once today 
Did nothing first half
There’s no doubt he’s good,probably not great now,but the way these commentators suck up to everything he does is pretty tedious.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			Lets not forget that, in Best's era, the throat high tackle was not discouraged.
		
Click to expand...

Indeed. 

There are however some players that one could imagine doing well in any era. Messi is one of those in my opinion.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If the Keeper is spreading himself and going for the ball and misses and makes contact with the player then every single time it will be a penalty.

Anytime that’s happened it’s a foul
		
Click to expand...

We see that every week in the PL and it’s not given!


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 13, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Indeed.

There are however some players that one could imagine doing well in any era. Messi is one of those in my opinion.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah. The advantage of the throat high tackle, for players like Best and Messi, is that they have amazing timing to nip ball away. As defender has committed themselves, then they are left for dead. 

The disadvantage being that serious injuries are more likely, and that is bound to shorten a players career, and appearances during the season. 

I find it impossible to rate players in the same era, let alone from different eras. We all have our own preferences in what a player can offer. Also, few people will ever choose a defender or defensive midfielder, yet such a player could be even more important to a team than the guy with silky skills and good scoring record. 

Sometimes it seems just best to sit back, and admire good football when it is on show. Unless it is against your team of course.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Seems to me the only way the striker could have NOT run into the keeper was by not trying to get a strike on goal.

Well there's a new one to me... You're only allowed to shoot if you make sure you dodge anyone trying to stop you scoring.
		
Click to expand...

So you think the striker ran into the keeper ?
It’s a contact sport.
Not every contact is a foul.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2022)

Well that’s part 1 done - Messi with the chance to complete the set 

Next to see if France can make it and then Mbappe Vs Messi will be highlighted 

It would be good to see Messi win a World Cup to give him the lot - a special player and for many the best that’s been


----------



## Piece (Dec 13, 2022)

Blimey. Croatia were gash.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 13, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			The striker runs into him.
You don’t have to move out of the way. He had both feet on the ground.
		
Click to expand...

If the keeper physically hadn't moved you would have a point. But he ran out to meet the forward, failed to get the ball and impeded the forward's progress, stopping him from being able to knock the ball in the net. It's a penalty.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 13, 2022)

Piece said:



			Blimey. Croatia were gash.
		
Click to expand...

I'm surprised they got this far. They never looked like the side they used to be. Obviously ridden their luck a bit with penalty shootouts.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2022)

Suprized Messi stayed on.
Thought they might protect him a bit.
Croatia were shocking up front never looked like scoring.


----------



## BrianM (Dec 13, 2022)

What happened with Ben White, seen he played for Arsenal today.


----------



## adam6177 (Dec 13, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			So you think the striker ran into the keeper ?
It’s a contact sport.
Not every contact is a foul.
		
Click to expand...

Did he deliberately run into the keeper? No. It was part of him getting his shot off.

Let's flip it around....the ball is 1m further on and the keeper collects the ball in his arms, Alvarez collides with him and knocks him to the floor whilst trying to get his foot in for a shot..... That would be a clear foul on the keeper.  So I can't understand why what we saw tonight isn't a clear pen in some eyes.

For me, stonewall penalty all day every day.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			Did he deliberately run into the keeper? No. It was part of him getting his shot off.

Let's flip it around....the ball is 1m further on and the keeper collects the ball in his arms, Alvarez collides with him and knocks him to the floor whilst trying to get his foot in for a shot..... That would be a clear foul on the keeper.  So I can't understand why what we saw tonight isn't a clear pen in some eyes.

For me, stonewall penalty all day every day.
		
Click to expand...

He fluffed his finish and ran into the keeper.
Not for me he was never beating Lovren to the ball.

No wonder VAR won’t have ex players on it.
Three in the studio no pen
Two In commentary stonewall.???
Same as us on here!


----------



## Slime (Dec 13, 2022)

BrianM said:



			What happened with Ben White, seen he played for Arsenal today.
		
Click to expand...

I'd heard he'd had a row with the backroom staff, possibly Steve Holland, and was sent home.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 13, 2022)

Slime said:



			I'd heard he'd had a row with the backroom staff, possibly Steve Holland, and was sent home.
		
Click to expand...

Sent home for a bit of a row.
It’s not a school outing it’s a World Cup !
Just sort it out behind the bike sheds.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 14, 2022)

Slime said:



			I'd heard he'd had a row with the backroom staff, possibly Steve Holland, and was sent home.
		
Click to expand...

Probably got angry seeing maigure being picked over Him


----------



## theoneandonly (Dec 14, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Once today 
Did nothing first half
There’s no doubt he’s good,probably not great now,but the way these commentators suck up to everything he does is pretty tedious.
		
Click to expand...

Have you seen him live ? He really is amazing and the TV just doesn't show how good he really is.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 14, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Once today
Did nothing first half
There’s no doubt he’s good,probably not great now,but the way these commentators suck up to everything he does is pretty tedious.
		
Click to expand...

Didn't he score a pen in the first half?


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 14, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Didn't he score a pen in the first half?
		
Click to expand...

True
Let’s imagine though he’s Kane and he strolls around doing nothing but scores a penalty.
This Forum and commentary would be having a field day.
Dixon must have called him a genius 10 times.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 14, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			True
Let’s imagine though he’s Kane and he strolls around doing nothing but scores a penalty.
This Forum and commentary would be having a field day.
Dixon must have called him a genius 10 times.
		
Click to expand...

But kane created so many goals and people just see him not running full speed and that's it .. he's lazy 

It's a very British thing..if a player puts in effort hes amazing .. if he doesn't he's lazy ..

Some of the most gifted players play at walking pace ..

Sheringham had a yard in his head


----------



## Backache (Dec 14, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			But kane created so many goals and people just see him not running full speed and that's it .. he's lazy 

It's a very British thing..if a player puts in effort hes amazing .. if he doesn't he's lazy ..

Some of the most gifted players play at walking pace ..

Sheringham had a yard in his head
		
Click to expand...

Generally speaking the very best sportsman are pretty damn fast, goes for golfers in their swing as well.
It's the efficient ,coordination and economy of effort that makes them appear leisurely.

Messi has always walked around a fair bit to preserve effort for when it can be used most effectively but at his peak he was very quick indeed, even now his speed of footwork is phenomenal even if his raw pace is less than it was.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 14, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			But kane created so many goals and people just see him not running full speed and that's it .. he's lazy

It's a very British thing..if a player puts in effort hes amazing .. if he doesn't he's lazy ..

Some of the most gifted players play at walking pace ..

Sheringham had a yard in his head
		
Click to expand...

Berbatov springs to mind. And Le Tissier - how he only got less than 10 caps I'll never know.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 14, 2022)

Backache said:



			Generally speaking the very best sportsman are pretty damn fast, goes for golfers in their swing as well.
It's the efficient ,coordination and economy of effort that makes them appear leisurely.

Messi has always walked around a fair bit to preserve effort for when it can be used most effectively but at his peak he was very quick indeed, even now his speed of footwork is phenomenal even if his raw pace is less than it was.
		
Click to expand...

Messi could easily go into his 40s as his skill and ability to read a game is still so sharp. He changes and moves positions to still be the best in the world 

He could walk around a pitch and still put most defenders on the floor


----------



## Backache (Dec 14, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Messi could easily go into his 40s as his skill and ability to read a game is still so sharp. He changes and moves positions to still be the best in the world

He could walk around a pitch and still put most defenders on the floor
		
Click to expand...

Yup he's a fabulous player.


----------



## fundy (Dec 14, 2022)

This should clear up whether it was a pen or not lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602995401673555975


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			This should clear up whether it was a pen or not lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602995401673555975

Click to expand...

Haha. That is a superb comparison to be fair.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 14, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Berbatov springs to mind. And Le Tissier - how he only got less than 10 caps I'll never know.
		
Click to expand...

why is it that, particularly in this Country it seems, that we equate effort with skill and competence.
Imagine a modern day surgeon ( maybe there is one😳) who says 
” Couldn’t do the  exams very well, but I was rated great because I tried very hard”


----------



## nickjdavis (Dec 14, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Berbatov springs to mind. And Le Tissier - how he only got less than 10 caps I'll never know.
		
Click to expand...

He played for an unfashionable side.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 14, 2022)

fundy said:



			This should clear up whether it was a pen or not lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602995401673555975

Click to expand...

When you look at that though one was given and one wasn’t.
Just the wrong way around.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 14, 2022)

nickjdavis said:



			He played for an unfashionable side.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe the managers back then knew he was a massive bell end before we all did!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 14, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Maybe the managers back then knew he was a massive bell end before we all did!
		
Click to expand...

If that was applied to selecting players then managers are going to be massively hamstrung 🤣


----------



## Golfmmad (Dec 14, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Or if Bestie had to play against the athletic, super fit defenders Messi has to play against (P.S. I love Georgie Best)
		
Click to expand...

It still wouldn't matter to Best, he'd still run rings round them. 👍


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 14, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			It still wouldn't matter to Best, he'd still run rings round them. 👍
		
Click to expand...

He wouldn't keep up with modern fitness standards 

Old footballers on the lash the night before


----------



## Backache (Dec 14, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			He wouldn't keep up with modern fitness standards

Old footballers on the lash the night before
		
Click to expand...

Or maybe he'd have not been on the lash because of the supervision and culture of modern football.
At his best he was fast and fit.
I'm lucky enough to have seen both Best and Messi play and though I think Messi is the best player I've ever seen Best was pretty damn good.


----------



## GreiginFife (Dec 14, 2022)

The debate on generational footballers is one with far too many variables. Maybe Best's style wouldn't be suited to the modern fast/athletic game. He was, no doubt a great player but he was great comparative to his peers (as that is all you can reliably compare him to) and possibly it was the culture and behaviours that suited his game and style. 

Safer just to say that they are all great players and that they were the best in their generation.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 14, 2022)

Was the ref conned there?  In the penalty area.?  See at half time maybe.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 14, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Was the ref conned there?  In the penalty area.?  See at half time maybe.
		
Click to expand...

Yes can’t see what the Moroccan player did to deserve a yellow.
Wonder if VAR had a look, they don’t tell you.


----------



## adam6177 (Dec 14, 2022)

I can't stand the way this commentator pronounces griezmann


----------



## adam6177 (Dec 14, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Was the ref conned there?  In the penalty area.?  See at half time maybe.
		
Click to expand...

I wondered that... But the Moroccan player didn't complain so can only assume ref got it right.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 14, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			The debate on generational footballers is one with far too many variables. Maybe Best's style wouldn't be suited to the modern fast/athletic game. He was, no doubt a great player but he was great comparative to his peers (as that is all you can reliably compare him to) and possibly it was the culture and behaviours that suited his game and style.

*Safer just to say that they are all great players and that they were the best in their generation*.
		
Click to expand...

I agree. It seems that the social media willy waving contest always has to have  a definitive winner. It's nauseating.

When i sit and think of some the greats i've had the pleasure to watch in stadiums across Europe its impossible to pick the greatest.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 14, 2022)

We got “adverts” at half time from BBC


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 14, 2022)

adam6177 said:



			I wondered that... But the Moroccan player didn't complain so can only assume ref got it right.
		
Click to expand...

French player got the ball but he’s out of control and crashes into the striker.
Just can’t see why the Moroccan lad was booked for that he never really put a challenge in.


----------



## Piece (Dec 14, 2022)

Being kind, France are efficient and....lucky.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 14, 2022)

Piece said:



			Being kind, France are efficient and....lucky.
		
Click to expand...

Yes good teams seem to get the luck.
Morroco fantastic until they get to the final third then they were poor.
Final ball nothing .


----------



## Smiffy (Dec 14, 2022)

I can't remember a world cup where there have been so many bits of crumpet in the crowds....😋😋😋😋


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2022)

Really enjoyable game that - Morocco were superb and the bounce just didn’t go their way - can’t believe someone even suggested they shouldn’t be there , some of their attacking skill and flair was excellent 

France again had the quality at the end to get the goals - Mbappe again at times was superb 

The final now should be a cracker


----------



## Golfmmad (Dec 14, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			He wouldn't keep up with modern fitness standards 

Old footballers on the lash the night before
		
Click to expand...

I'm talking about Best in his prime.
He wouldn't have had any problems with fitness.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 14, 2022)

Poor Harry Maguire, decent World Cup to try and show some form, yet the 2 guys keeping him out of his club side are now preparing for a World Cup final.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 14, 2022)

I thought Morocco were hugely impressive tonight. More expansive than previous games, they just lacked cutting edge. Plenty of ooo moments for them to have nightmares about. What could have been.........

No idea who wins on Sunday. Both teams are good but offer chances.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 14, 2022)

Going to be a good final and an interesting one as I have no cares as to who wins.. 
Going in as a genuine neutral.
Could be fun....


----------



## KenL (Dec 14, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Going to be a good final and an interesting one as I have no cares as to who wins..
Going in as a genuine neutral.
Could be fun....
		
Click to expand...

I'm swaying towards an Argentina win as Messi deserves to be a WC winner.


----------



## rudebhoy (Dec 15, 2022)

Rumours going round that Benzama is fit and is in the frame to play on Sunday. Can't see it myself, but you never know.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 15, 2022)

rudebhoy said:



			Rumours going round that Benzama is fit and is in the frame to play on Sunday. Can't see it myself, but you never know.
		
Click to expand...

They said he could have joined up with them a couple of rounds earlier but that time they told him to stay at home. So I can't see him playing much part. I'm sure they won't drop Giroud.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 15, 2022)

I'd like to see Argentina win the World Cup. Despite being in the Ronaldo camp in the ever so tiring Ronaldo versus Messi debate, I don't care enough to want one player to constantly fail and the other to succeed, simply as I can take pleasure in using it as "evidence" my opinion is correct. I don't think it is a debate that can ever be won, as we all look for different attributes in players, and certain players fit better into certain teams.

But, Messi has been an unbelievable player. At 35, he won't have the pace he had a decade ago, but it has been said already, he is at the centre of the game for Argentina. He has been excellent, and he can still pull the strings, make things happen. I don't care if the Messi fans will go into overdrive if Messi wins the World Cup (prompting a strong defence from the Ronaldo fans). I simply think it would be nice to see him lift the World Cup, given the career he has had. 

On another note, I was sad a few times watching last nights match, thinking "what could have been" had England beaten France. One day, I hope England go into a tournament where the players, manager and fans actually believe they can win the World Cup, rather than just think and hope they can. With the success of the Premier League, I'd like to think England can produce top quality youngsters in the future years, and so can go into tournaments with stronger sides that might have been the case in the past. Perhaps managing to get over the line just one time, will embed a winning mentality that doesn't seem to quite exist at present?


----------



## pool888 (Dec 15, 2022)

It was a good game to watch and Morocco more than competed and played their part. Early goal forced their hand though, I'm not sure we would have seen them attacking so much had the score remainded at 0-0. France just had the quality and good fortune at the right time to win the game.


----------



## Aztecs27 (Dec 15, 2022)

Hang on.....

World Cup is in Qatar

PSG owned by Qatari's

Messi and Mbappe both play club football for PSG 



This is one massive ploy by Qatar to make sure both their star players are in the final, isn't it?


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 15, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Hang on.....

World Cup is in Qatar

PSG owned by Qatari's

Messi and Mbappe both play club football for PSG



This is one massive ploy by Qatar to make sure both their star players are in the final, isn't it?
		
Click to expand...

I bet Harry Kane was bribed, or blackmailed, into missing that second penalty...


----------



## Imurg (Dec 15, 2022)

KenL said:



			I'm swaying towards an Argentina win as Messi deserves to be a WC winner.
		
Click to expand...

I know what you mean but I dislike the feeling that anyone "deserves" to win anything....
If they're good enough on the day they'll win it..what you do in the run up to it is largely irrelevant. 
P.enty of players of all sports could be deemed deserving of winning a major event but haven't...


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'd like to see Argentina win the World Cup. Despite being in the Ronaldo camp in the ever so tiring Ronaldo versus Messi debate, I don't care enough to want one player to constantly fail and the other to succeed, simply as I can take pleasure in using it as "evidence" my opinion is correct. I don't think it is a debate that can ever be won, as we all look for different attributes in players, and certain players fit better into certain teams.

But, Messi has been an unbelievable player. At 35, he won't have the pace he had a decade ago, but it has been said already, he is at the centre of the game for Argentina. He has been excellent, and he can still pull the strings, make things happen. I don't care if the Messi fans will go into overdrive if Messi wins the World Cup (prompting a strong defence from the Ronaldo fans). I simply think it would be nice to see him lift the World Cup, given the career he has had.

On another note, I was sad a few times watching last nights match, thinking "what could have been" had England beaten France. One day, I hope England go into a tournament where the players, manager and fans actually believe they can win the World Cup, rather than just think and hope they can. With the success of the Premier League, I'd like to think England can produce top quality youngsters in the future years, and so can go into tournaments with stronger sides that might have been the case in the past. Perhaps managing to get over the line just one time, will embed a winning mentality that doesn't seem to quite exist at present?
		
Click to expand...

Agree to be honest. I'm also in the Ronaldo camp, but I'm slightly in favour of Argentina winning, fitting for Messi to end up with a World Cup to his name. And France won it last time so sod them.

I think we have some good young players, once they mature a bit perhaps we'll have more chance. Also think the manager is too nice to instil any kind of killer instinct.


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Hang on.....

World Cup is in Qatar

PSG owned by Qatari's

Messi and Mbappe both play club football for PSG



This is one massive ploy by Qatar to make sure both their star players are in the final, isn't it?
		
Click to expand...

wheres Neymar


----------



## Imurg (Dec 15, 2022)

fundy said:



			wheres Neymar 

Click to expand...

That's football.......


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 15, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'd like to see Argentina win the World Cup. Despite being in the Ronaldo camp in the ever so tiring Ronaldo versus Messi debate, I don't care enough to want one player to constantly fail and the other to succeed, simply as I can take pleasure in using it as "evidence" my opinion is correct. I don't think it is a debate that can ever be won, as we all look for different attributes in players, and certain players fit better into certain teams.

But, Messi has been an unbelievable player. At 35, he won't have the pace he had a decade ago, but it has been said already, he is at the centre of the game for Argentina. He has been excellent, and he can still pull the strings, make things happen. I don't care if the Messi fans will go into overdrive if Messi wins the World Cup (prompting a strong defence from the Ronaldo fans). I simply think it would be nice to see him lift the World Cup, given the career he has had.

On another note, I was sad a few times watching last nights match, thinking "what could have been" had England beaten France. One day, I hope England go into a tournament where the players, manager and fans actually believe they can win the World Cup, rather than just think and hope they can. With the success of the Premier League, I'd like to think England can produce top quality youngsters in the future years, and so can go into tournaments with stronger sides that might have been the case in the past. Perhaps managing to get over the line just one time, will embed a winning mentality that doesn't seem to quite exist at present?
		
Click to expand...

I think the players and fans think we can win it.
But we need a pep or Klopp that think attacking football.

France for me with Konate getting a medal.


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 15, 2022)

France for me, can’t stand the dirty Argies, zero class, also fed up with the BBC masturbating every time Messi gets within 6ft if the ball 🤣


----------



## Aztecs27 (Dec 15, 2022)

I love Messi and the man is on another planet - but cannot stand the rest of the Argies. 

I also can't stand France. 

So hopefully they both lose.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 15, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			France for me, can’t stand the dirty Argies, zero class, also fed up with the BBC masturbating every time Messi gets within 6ft if the ball 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Not just the BBC (and it’s their commentators and pundits and not ‘the BBC’) ITV‘s are just the same…


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 15, 2022)

rudebhoy said:



			Rumours going round that Benzama is fit and is in the frame to play on Sunday. Can't see it myself, but you never know.
		
Click to expand...

Surely, surely not. Tell them to look back in history at examples of England taking 'just returned from injury ' players and see how well they turned out. 

Perhaps on the bench, last 15 minutes if they are losing, but a massive gamble if they do it.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 15, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			I love Messi and the man is on another planet - but cannot stand the rest of the Argies.

I also can't stand France.

So hopefully they both lose.
		
Click to expand...

The people that think Messi is on another planet should be on another planet themselves.
He’s been ok but done nothing extraordinary.
Beat a player the other night and set up a goal and he’s a genius,ridiculous.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 15, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Surely, surely not. Tell them to look back in history at examples of England taking 'just returned from injury ' players and see how well they turned out.

Perhaps on the bench, last 15 minutes if they are losing, but a massive gamble if they do it.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on 
Why would you change a winning team.
Giroud has earned his place!


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 15, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			The people that think Messi is on another planet should be on another planet themselves.
He’s been ok but done nothing extraordinary.
Beat a player the other night and set up a goal and he’s a genius,ridiculous.
		
Click to expand...

Lots of players can beat a player, but Messi seems to do it consistently. More importantly, he seems to barely ever lose possession of the ball. Many players who can beat a player, and show great moments of skill, can also lose the ball a heck of a lot as well. That's what probably sets him apart from most others, even at 35.

Maybe "on another planet" is getting carried away. But, I doubt few other players get spectators on their feet like Messi does, as there is an expectation he will do something good. Even more so than Mbappe I think. Mbappe can go on mega quick bursts, and it was some decent skill from him for their second goal last night, even if the assist was lucky. But, he has featured very little for most parts of the last few games, been a fringe player. Messi seems to always be pivotal to everything Argentina do.


----------



## Aztecs27 (Dec 15, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			The people that think Messi is on another planet should be on another planet themselves.
He’s been ok but done nothing extraordinary.
Beat a player the other night and set up a goal and he’s a genius,ridiculous.
		
Click to expand...

Not just at this World Cup - his career as a whole. I've never seen anyone influence a team as much as he has done. As has been mentioned - he barely loses possession when taking on multiple players and sees things other players don't see. 

We're privileged to have lived through the prime of Messi, Cristiano and Ronaldo.


----------



## sunshine (Dec 16, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			It still wouldn't matter to Best, he'd still run rings round them. 👍
		
Click to expand...

 No he wouldn't. The way he played he'd be hopelessley out of his depth today.

It's hard to compare, because maybe if was playing in today's generation he would be super fit and dedicated.


----------



## nickjdavis (Dec 16, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			Beat a player the other night and set up a goal and he’s a genius,ridiculous.
		
Click to expand...

You are obviously referring to my comment at the time.

What was genius in my opinion is, that it was clear from the moment he got the ball, that he knew exactly where he wanted to end up to get the ball across to a striker who wasnt there yet and he knew exactly how he was going to befuddle the defender and the defender was utterly powerless to prevent him from doing exactly what he wanted.

We can argue about the use of the word "genius" until we are blue in the face....I'm a glass half full man...even when its nearly empty...so I tend to view such things in a more positive light than others and my use of language sometimes reflects that.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 16, 2022)

sunshine said:



* No he wouldn't. The way he played he'd be hopelessley out of his depth today.*

It's hard to compare, because maybe if was playing in today's generation he would be super fit and dedicated.
		
Click to expand...

And you say I don’t understand football😳
😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭


----------



## sunshine (Dec 16, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			And you say I don’t understand football😳
😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
		
Click to expand...

The game has moved on so far. The rewards are so high that the pool of talent available is immense.

A modern day full back like Kyle Walker would have Best in his pocket, because he would have the pace to recover if he was turned.

I just want to add, I've seen the famous clips and I have so much admiration for George Best. Before my time, but I love the way he decided that he didn't have to be squeaky clean. He was an entertainer and entitled to live a rock n roll lifestyle.


----------



## chrisd (Dec 16, 2022)

sunshine said:



			A modern day full back like Kyle Walker would have Best in his pocket, because he would have the pace to recover if he was turned.
		
Click to expand...


Sorry but you are so so wrong. Best was very quick and had (probably) at least equal skills to that of Messi. The best and hardest defenders tried to stop him with tackles that would get them red carded today, and to top it, his finishing was exquisite often on swamps of pitches. 

You had to be there, TV doesn't do him justice!


----------



## Golfmmad (Dec 16, 2022)

sunshine said:



 No he wouldn't. The way he played he'd be hopelessley out of his depth today.

It's hard to compare, because maybe if was playing in today's generation he would be super fit and dedicated.
		
Click to expand...

You're avin a laugh surely!
Completely disagree with your first paragraph.

Anyway, I'm bored with all the comparisons. I know what I saw then and what I see today.
Best had everything, left foot, right foot, heading ability, terrific balance and speed. Look at you tube clips and see him riding tackle after tackle and still remained on his feet.
And finally, all those commentators, especially Martin Keown, that say, "He drew the foul". Best never ever did as he always stayed on his feet.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 16, 2022)

It’s impossible to judge across such a huge timeframe 

Game has moved on - it’s massively different  - pace wise and fitness wise

Players will always show high levels of skill in all eras 

Best was great in his era 

Just like many others were great in their era


----------



## Slime (Dec 16, 2022)

George best would be great in any era, no doubt.


----------



## Golfmmad (Dec 16, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s impossible to judge across such a huge timeframe 

Game has moved on - it’s massively different  - pace wise and fitness wise

Players will always show high levels of skill in all eras 

Best was great in his era 

Just like many others were great in their era
		
Click to expand...

I've just googled George Best and watched 10 of his best goals. As I was thinking maybe I'm giving him too much credit.
But all I can say is just watch it, speed, skill, balance, he had absolutely everything and boy was he quick.
So, no, I wasn't giving him too much credit. 👍


----------



## Golfmmad (Dec 16, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			I've just googled George Best and watched 10 of his best goals. As I was thinking maybe I'm giving him too much credit.
But all I can say is just watch it, speed, skill, balance, he had absolutely everything and boy was he quick.
So, no, I wasn't giving him too much credit. 👍
		
Click to expand...

Edit, look at goal no. 9 and tell me he wasn't quick enough.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 16, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			I've just googled George Best and watched 10 of his best goals. As I was thinking maybe I'm giving him too much credit.
But all I can say is just watch it, speed, skill, balance, he had absolutely everything and boy was he quick.
So, no, I wasn't giving him too much credit. 👍
		
Click to expand...

I have seen the same videos from lots of players over the years - i remember watching John Barnes when he joined us and he was just breathtaking, same with players like Hansen , Kenny , Rush etc

People no doubt said the same thing about Edwards , then Zidane , Maradona etc

The one thing that has changed hugely is the pace of the game and fitness - players in the past were quick relative to the players they played against. It’s just impossible to judge if someone would be the same player in a different era

It’s better to just appreciate the players for what they did in the era they played


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 16, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			I've just googled George Best and watched 10 of his best goals. As I was thinking maybe I'm giving him too much credit.
But all I can say is just watch it, speed, skill, balance, he had absolutely everything and boy was he quick.
So, no, I wasn't giving him too much credit. 👍
		
Click to expand...

But the point remains , you can only beat what's around you

Adel Taarabt , too good for the championship, had them all on toast. Could never cut it In the premier League ..

Best could beat the players of his generation, the standards have raised so much since then, he would still be class but he is a level below Messi and Ronaldo.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 16, 2022)

Players evolve.
Think of Roger Bannister in the Olympics now think he would win ?
I think he would finish last over a mile now.


----------



## Golfmmad (Dec 16, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			But the point remains , you can only beat what's around you

Adel Taarabt , too good for the championship, had them all on toast. Could never cut it In the premier League ..

Best could beat the players of his generation, the standards have raised so much since then, he would still be class but he is a level below Messi and Ronaldo.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, disagree.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 16, 2022)

I'm sure Best was great but the bar has been well and truly raised by Messi and Ronaldo. These were averaging a goal a game for several seasons in a row at their peaks - completely unheard of before. And Best didn't have the same longevity either of course, looking at his career he was seemingly pretty much done at the top level by age 29-30. Messi & Ronaldo still going strong at 35+. As I say - they have well and truly raised the bar and I feel lucky to have watched them both in my lifetime.


----------



## sunshine (Dec 17, 2022)

George Best played in an era when defenders were generally slow ponderous choppers, their usual choice when faced with a fleet footed forward was to try and hack them down. Someone like Best could run rings around them. Please do not confuse 60s/70s defenders with modern day defenders!


----------



## sunshine (Dec 17, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			But the point remains , you can only beat what's around you

Adel Taarabt , too good for the championship, had them all on toast. Could never cut it In the premier League ..

Best could beat the players of his generation, the standards have raised so much since then, he would still be class but he is a level below Messi and Ronaldo.
		
Click to expand...

Adel Taarabt, what a great comparison. Rated by many of his peers as the most skilful player they have ever seen. Some of the things he did on the pitch were incredible. 

But, in the premier league, his skill wasn’t enough. The defenders were quick enough to recover. 

It was Taarabt who made me realise that some of the legends like Le Tissier etc wouldn’t cut it in the prem today.


----------



## chrisd (Dec 17, 2022)

sunshine said:



			Adel Taarabt, what a great comparison. Rated by many of his peers as the most skilful player they have ever seen. Some of the things he did on the pitch were incredible.

But, in the premier league, his skill wasn’t enough. The defenders were quick enough to recover.

It was Taarabt who made me realise that some of the legends like Le Tissier etc wouldn’t cut it in the prem today.
		
Click to expand...


If a current player couldn't hack it in the PL today then it wasn't about the defenders being quick enough to recover, it was about the player not being good enough to leave the defenders standing. What we are saying is that if Best, Maradona etc etc were coming on the scene today they would be the best players in the game as they would have all the current training,  diets etc etc available and they therefore would be even better physically than back in their day.

Le Tissier was a very decent player but most definitely not a George Best and I'd like to also point out that defenders were not ALL slow choppers.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Dec 17, 2022)

As a neutral I really enjoyed the WC
Great to see the new powers evolve with North America, Africa and Austr/Asia teams improving considerably.
Another decade and they will be the top dogs whilst Europe are still play Chuckle Bros fitba [to me to you]
Venues were superb. so was organszation and timings and with the odd exception I thought the referees were good.
No fan aggro was a big plus, obviously due to alcohol ban.


----------



## sunshine (Dec 17, 2022)

chrisd said:



			If a current player couldn't hack it in the PL today then it wasn't about the defenders being quick enough to recover, it was about the player not being good enough to leave the defenders standing. What we are saying is that if Best, Maradona etc etc were coming on the scene today they would be the best players in the game as they would have all the current training,  diets etc etc available and they therefore would be even better physically than back in their day.

Le Tissier was a very decent player but most definitely not a George Best and I'd like to also point out that defenders were not ALL slow choppers.
		
Click to expand...

That’s making a big leap, saying that George Best would follow modern diet and training regime 😂. It’s certainly possible and I agree with your line of thinking. 

What I was doing was comparing players as we saw them. The Best I have seen from clips looks good against defenders from the 60s but not outstanding in the context of modern football.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 17, 2022)

Doon frae Troon said:



			As a neutral I really enjoyed the WC
*Great to see the new powers evolve with North America, Africa and Austr/Asia teams improving considerably.
Another decade and they will be the top dogs whilst Europe are still play Chuckle Bros fitba [to me to you]*
Venues were superb. so was organszation and timings and with the odd exception I thought the referees were good.
No fan aggro was a big plus, obviously due to alcohol ban.
		
Click to expand...

The same thing was said in the 90’s when the likes of Cameroon came through , and then Senegal , then Ghana and South Korea etc 

Having the odd good result in a tournament doesn’t mean a shift of power away from European and South American countries

And teams that play your “chuckle bro” football ( or possession based ) are the ones that win the trophies and which continent do the finalist represent - Europe and South America 

The style of football you appear to prefer won’t work over a extended period of time - Greece are prob the only team in the last 30/40 years that have “booted” their way to win


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 17, 2022)

Fan aggro. Not sure there has ever been much aggro in grounds at world cups, it's usually before and after games. Drink is available outside of grounds, it's only banned inside so shouldn't be too much of an influence.

Perhaps it has been policed differently, beer is too expensive or culturally there are fewer bars? I don't know but it is something that future organisers should look at as no violence is clearly a massive positive.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 17, 2022)

Doon frae Troon said:



			As a neutral I really enjoyed the WC
Great to see the new powers evolve with North America, Africa and Austr/Asia teams improving considerably.
Another decade and they will be the top dogs whilst Europe are still play Chuckle Bros fitba [to me to you]
Venues were superb. so was organszation and timings and with the odd exception I thought the referees were good.
No fan aggro was a big plus, obviously due to alcohol ban.
		
Click to expand...

One team from Africa getting to the semis does not represent a shift in power. It will take way more than a decade for a team from one of those places to be top dog. 

Good teams play possession based football for good reason. Lump it forward to the big lad up front might win the the odd game, but over a series of games it’s just not as effective. 

Even within the so called possession based teams there are completely different styles. France and Spain play in a completely different way.


----------



## chrisd (Dec 17, 2022)

sunshine said:



			That’s making a big leap, saying that George Best would follow modern diet and training regime 😂. It’s certainly possible and I agree with your line of thinking.

What I was doing was comparing players as we saw them. The Best I have seen from clips looks good against defenders from the 60s but not outstanding in the context of modern football.
		
Click to expand...

I think Best would today have had  better guidance and discipline.  

The condition of pitches was, in my view, the greatest issue. The mud was up to the ankles, they played in snow and fog, that was a great leveller. When the pitches were good (at the start of the season) the football was fast for sure and defenders were not all "lumpers" . Let's face it, Messi for me is the greatest footballer ever, but he's slowed down compared to 10 years ago but still can waltz round todays defenders, Best waltzed round the best defenders of his time and often went back and waltzed round them again. 

Lastly, you say you're comparing players "as we saw them" but you never actually saw Best !


----------



## Imurg (Dec 17, 2022)

It could still come home..


----------



## Backache (Dec 17, 2022)

I'm fortunate to have seen both Best and Messi play live . Whereas I think Messi is almost certainly the finest footballer ever there is little doubt in my mind that Best would have been a star in any era. I saw him both at his peak(admittedly I was pretty young) for Manchester Utd and later at Uni I saw him play for Hibs when even as a slow alcohol ravaged man he still did a few things that were absolutely beyond anyone else on the pitch.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 17, 2022)

Has anyone checked on @4LEX , he took Englands defeat pretty bad lastweek🤭


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 17, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Has anyone checked on @4LEX , he took Englands defeat pretty bad lastweek🤭
		
Click to expand...

Hilarious La 😬
He’s been blackballed 👍🏻


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 17, 2022)

Looks like Southgate is set to stay on as England manager.
Not too disappointed if he does tbh.
Lost euros in the final on penalties,got knocked out of World Cup by the current champions.
Fine margins 🤷‍♂️


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 17, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Looks like Southgate is set to stay on as England manager.
Not too disappointed if he does tbh.
Lost euros in the final on penalties,got knocked out of World Cup by the current champions.
Fine margins 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Thought lineker was spot on about it, saying not always the best team wins the cup, it's not a league .. nobody thinks pep should go because he doesn't win champ league 

Spot on tbh, we go again for the next euros


----------



## sunshine (Dec 17, 2022)

Backache said:



			I saw him play for Hibs when even as a slow alcohol ravaged man he still did a few things that were absolutely beyond anyone else on the pitch.
		
Click to expand...

It was Hibs. Controlling the ball was probably beyond everyone else on the pitch 😂


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 17, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Thought lineker was spot on about it, saying not always the best team wins the cup, it's not a league .. nobody thinks* pep should go because he doesn't win champ league*

Spot on tbh, we go again for the next euros
		
Click to expand...

Or Klopp only winning 1 league title 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 17, 2022)

And Southgate staying has ruined my night, thats another next major comp wasted. Yet quarter, semis or losing finalist will be enough for some.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 17, 2022)

Backache said:



			I'm fortunate to have seen both Best and Messi play live . Whereas I think Messi is almost certainly the finest footballer ever there is little doubt in my mind that Best would have been a star in any era. I saw him both at his peak(admittedly I was pretty young) for Manchester Utd and later at Uni I saw him play for Hibs when even as a slow alcohol ravaged man he still did a few things that were absolutely beyond anyone else on the pitch.
		
Click to expand...

I find comparison between players that Could or could not perform in a different era odd. Having seen Nedved, KDB, Ronaldo, George Weah, etc etc. one thing they had was touch and vision. They naturally made the game look very very easy. For me they could of played any time any place any where.
Who is the greatest player of all time. There ain’t enough popcorn in Mansfield for that one.


----------



## Fade and Die (Dec 17, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Hilarious La 😬
He’s been blackballed 👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

What for? Can’t just be for dropping the C bomb into a post otherwise Stu would have been blackballed years ago. And that would suggest inconsistent moderating 🤔


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 18, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			What for? Can’t just be for dropping the C bomb into a post otherwise Stu would have been blackballed years ago. And that would suggest inconsistent moderating 🤔
		
Click to expand...

Not sure mate.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			What for? Can’t just be for dropping the C bomb into a post otherwise Stu would have been blackballed years ago. *And that would suggest inconsistent moderating* 🤔
		
Click to expand...

Enjoy your weeks  break, merry xmas 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Dando (Dec 18, 2022)

Imurg said:



			It could still come home..
View attachment 45622

Click to expand...

In this day and age all they need to do is identify as the winners


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 18, 2022)

My lad watches a lot, I mean a LOT, of football…current and past times.  He wants Messi to win the WC…not Argentina, as he reckons Messi is the GOAT, better than Pele, Maradona, Best et al - and still doing it for PSG - and so him winning the WC is what his contribution to football deserves.  And he seems a nice guy ‘to boot’ ( as it were).


----------



## Baldy Bouncer (Dec 18, 2022)

Dando said:



			In this day and age all they need to do is identify as the winners
		
Click to expand...


Brilliant!


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 18, 2022)

sunshine said:



			That’s making a big leap, saying that George Best would follow modern diet and training regime 😂. It’s certainly possible and I agree with your line of thinking.

What I was doing was comparing players as we saw them. The Best I have seen from clips looks good against defenders from the 60s but not outstanding in the context of modern football.
		
Click to expand...

I simply do not agree with this “myth” being put about that players are faster and better than those of yesteryear of whom we have been talking. 
Are you telling me that defenders of the ilk of the present England back four are better than defenders in 70s and 80s?  Moores, Keane, Charles, Edwards, Hunter. Etc
Stones looks like he is carrying what his name suggests. He basically stands around passing sideways and backwards, as do the others.
When they surge forward with the ball into a  gap to push it forward to a player , it is hailed as a moment of genius (ok, a little hyperbole, but you get the message😀).
Most can kick any use only with one foot. That so often determines where the ball is going to go when you see which way they are facing. If I can see that on TV, then so can the opposition players. 
Overall, the distribution skills of the modern player are less than yesteryear’s, to the extent that Grealish is renowned for that skill, it being held to be a rare thing, and therefore so prized.  (Not that Southgate uses it much!). But such players, using that skill,  were not uncommon years ago.
Even if ( in a moment of self deception)it is conceded that today’s players are as good, 
then the tactics are much much slower at the back. Good up front, I’ll agree.
Never seen such unproductive , back and sideways passing as there is now.
Numbingly boring, but worse , so risky. 
How many times has such a tactic resulted in an expensive mistake , or in being forced in the end, to boot it up the field, as could have been more timely done in the first place.?

And the proof that I’m right?  See how this tactic is abandoned when the team is short of time and is behind; when goal attempts are vital in the closing minutes.
Possession is important, but possession up front, attempting to score.
As we say in our golf putting.  …”Never up, never in”


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			I simply do not agree with this “myth” being put about that players are faster and better than those of yesteryear of whom we have been talking.
Are you telling me that defenders of the ilk of the present England back four are better than defenders in 70s and 80s?  Moores, Keane, Charles, Edwards, Hunter. Etc
Stones looks like he is carrying what his name suggests. He basically stands around passing sideways and backwards, as do the others.
When they surge forward with the ball into a  gap to push it forward to a player , it is hailed as a moment of genius (ok, a little hyperbole, but you get the message😀).
Most can kick any use only with one foot. That so often determines where the ball is going to go when you see which way they are facing. If I can see that on TV, then so can the opposition players.
Overall, the distribution skills of the modern player are less than yesteryear’s, to the extent that Grealish is renowned for that skill, it being held to be a rare thing, and therefore so prized.  (Not that Southgate uses it much!). But such players, using that skill,  were not uncommon years ago.
Even if ( in a moment of self deception)it is conceded that today’s players are as good,
then the tactics are much much slower at the back. Good up front, I’ll agree.
Never seen such unproductive , back and sideways passing as there is now.
Numbingly boring, but worse , so risky.
How many times has such a tactic resulted in an expensive mistake , or in being forced in the end, to boot it up the field, as could have been more timely done in the first place.?

And the proof that I’m right?  See hothis tactic is abandoned when the team is short of time and is behind; when goal attempts are vital in the closing minutes.
Possession is important, but possession up front, attempting to score.
As we say in our golf putting.  …”Never up, never in”
		
Click to expand...


Think you may have quite a bias view maybe 🤷‍♂️

“Distribution skills less” - based on what exactly ? Some of the best passers of the ball have been in recent years - Alonso , Xavi , KDB , Iniesta , Gerrard , etc - the game has been littered with players with superb distribution 

And then the centre backs - Maldini , VVD , Rio , Pique , Silva , Dias 

Even full backs now - TAA , Robbo , Hakimi 

it’s very key now for players to be far better on the ball and that also now includes Goalkeepers who need to be very good with the ball at their feet 

I grew up watching football in the 80’s and the ball players stood out - Hoddle , Hansen , Molby - now those level of players are the standard and players need to be extra ordinary to stand out. 

“Older” fans are fixated with the heavy metal type football that used to be seen in the First Division at the time - remind us all how the national team did through the 70’s and 80’s with all these apparent players with better distribution skills. 

People in those eras didn’t watch foreign football beyond tournaments- the continent was littered with highly talent players 
During the late 70’s Liverpool and Forest got players that played more possession based football and it’s no surprise they did well in Europe - even then in the 90’s when the Prem started it was still heavy metal football and it’s not surprise that teams struggled in Europe 

It’s only as more foreign players arrived and foreign ideas and coaches and more possession based football and the teams start to become far better and successful in Europe 

There will be the odd players through years who would have been successful in any era - it’s impossible to judge how successful because the game , pitches , fitness , pace etc changes through the years


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 18, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Think you may have quite a bias view maybe 🤷‍♂️*

“Distribution skills less” - based on what exactly ? Some of the best passers of the ball have been in recent years - Alonso , Xavi , KDB , Iniesta , Gerrard , etc - the game has been littered with players with superb distribution

And then the centre backs - Maldini , VVD , Rio , Pique , Silva , Dias

Even full backs now - TAA , Robbo , Hakimi

it’s very key now for players to be far better on the ball and that also now includes Goalkeepers who need to be very good with the ball at their feet

I grew up watching football in the 80’s and the ball players stood out - Hoddle , Hansen , Molby - now those level of players are the standard and players need to be extra ordinary to stand out.

“Older” fans are fixated with the heavy metal type football that used to be seen in the First Division at the time - remind us all how the national team did through the 70’s and 80’s with all these apparent players with better distribution skills.

People in those eras didn’t watch foreign football beyond tournaments- the continent was littered with highly talent players
During the late 70’s Liverpool and Forest got players that played more possession based football and it’s no surprise they did well in Europe - even then in the 90’s when the Prem started it was still heavy metal football and it’s not surprise that teams struggled in Europe

It’s only as more foreign players arrived and foreign ideas and coaches and more possession based football and the teams start to become far better and successful in Europe

There will be the odd players through years who would have been successful in any era - it’s impossible to judge how successful because the game , pitches , fitness , pace etc changes through the years
		
Click to expand...

And you haven’t 😂😂😂😂?    But, no matter, all opinions are biased, aren’t they?

Hoddle and Hansen ordinary?..😳

Goalkeepers needing to play with their feet. No, they don’t need. Too many times have goals resulted from mistakes. Ok, so all persons make mistakes , but when you analyse n what the goalkeepers are doing( with their feet, which to you is important), how vital is it. ?  Why do something that can result maybe in an important mistake ,if what’s being done is not necessary, or not vital, or  merely fashionable?  What full back cannot do what you are wanting the goalie to do?

However, all academic. Southgateism is set to continue!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			And you haven’t 😂😂😂😂?    But, no matter, all opinions are biased, aren’t they?

Hoddle and Hansen ordinary?..😳

Goalkeepers needing to play with their feet. No, they don’t need. Too many times have goals resulted from mistakes. Ok, so all persons make mistakes , but when you analyse n what the goalkeepers are doing( with their feet, which to you is important), how vital is it. ?  Why do something that can result maybe in an important mistake ,if what’s being done is not necessary, or not vital, or  merely fashionable?  What full back cannot do what you are wanting the goalie to do?

However, all academic. Southgateism is set to continue!
		
Click to expand...

When did someone call Hoddle or Hansen ordinary 🤷‍♂️

Those type of players stood out in the 80’s because they are rare.  Those type of players are no longer rare - all teams at the top level need players who are comfortable on the ball so teams have 20 players like Hoodle and Hansen now 

and yes Goalkeepers at the top level need to be comfortable with the ball at their feet as well as all the other basic GK skills , it’s now starting to become a basic skill for them. Possession is key and being good on the ball is key to that

The top GKs right now are all good with their feet 

Neuer 
Allison 
Ederson
Courtois 

Even Pickford


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Dec 18, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			One team from Africa getting to the semis does not represent a shift in power. It will take way more than a decade for a team from one of those places to be top dog.

Good teams play possession based football for good reason. Lump it forward to the big lad up front might win the the odd game, but over a series of games it’s just not as effective.

Even within the so called possession based teams there are completely different styles. France and Spain play in a completely different way.
		
Click to expand...

No one is talking about 'lump it football'.
Morocco were very good at close ball control whilst running at speed, generally in threes and fours. USA were also lively and played with fast attacking skills.
Rather like the Dutch style of a couple of decades ago.

Tippy Tappy football is certainly not entertaining, drives new fans away.
Go out and win should be the thinking before a game not make sure you don't lose.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 18, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



*When did someone call Hoddle or Hansen ordinary 🤷‍♂️*

Those type of players stood out in the 80’s because they are rare.  Those type of players are no longer rare - all teams at the top level need players who are comfortable on the ball so teams have 20 players like Hoodle and Hansen now

and yes Goalkeepers at the top level need to be comfortable with the ball at their feet as well as all the other basic GK skills , it’s now starting to become a basic skill for them. Possession is key and being good on the ball is key to that

The top GKs right now are all good with their feet

Neuer
Allison
Ederson
Courtois

Even Pickford
		
Click to expand...

What’s your definition of Standard in the context you wrote it.?

*- Hoddle , Hansen , Molby - now those level of players are the standard and players need to be extra ordinary to stand out.*

To me that is saying that by todays ratings they are ordinary and players of today need to be better, or as you say extra ordinary.

As for goalies and feet, you have not addressed my point that they need not be “good” with their feet because they shouldn’t be in a tactic where they need to be. I.e. tippy tappy with backs in dangerous areas, in order to achieve what?

Anyway, I’ve made the point more than once , I don’t intend to go on in a me and you , me and you thread😀.  We’ve made our points. Lets not bore further.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 18, 2022)

Matterface,Dixon and Mccoist on ITV.

BBC it is then!


----------



## Piece (Dec 18, 2022)

sunshine said:



			George Best played in an era when defenders were generally slow ponderous choppers, their usual choice when faced with a fleet footed forward was to try and hack them down. Someone like Best could run rings around them. Please do not confuse 60s/70s defenders with modern day defenders!
		
Click to expand...

You can develop physicality, you can build strength,  you can improve fitness, you can improve diet. You can't improve talent.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 18, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			What’s your definition of Standard in the context you wrote it.?

*- Hoddle , Hansen , Molby - now those level of players are the standard and players need to be extra ordinary to stand out.*

To me that is saying that by todays ratings they are ordinary and players of today need to be better, or as you say extra ordinary.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but they would be. The pool of talent is much deeper than it used to be. It’s the same in most sports.

Golf, F1, Ice Hockey, Gymnastics etc. They evolve, understanding of technique and tactics improves. Fitness improves, coaching improves.

Jack had to beat fewer good players than Tiger. Tiger had to beat fewer top players than Rory does now. 

Fangio had less competition than Lewis. Schumacher moved the game on. Lewis has taken it to another level again. Fangio would struggle to complete a sprint race if dropped into modern F1.

When my daughter was 10 she could perform gymnastics routines that won Olympic medals in the 50s. 

I’m sure one day I’ll have strong prescription for rose tinted glasses.


----------



## GreiginFife (Dec 18, 2022)

1-1, Mbappe to score, Ottamendi & Upamecano to get booked...

Or at least I bloody hope so at 160-1


----------



## Piece (Dec 18, 2022)

I hope noone wins 😆


----------



## Imurg (Dec 18, 2022)

Piece said:



			I hope noone wins 😆
		
Click to expand...

Who does he play for..?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2022)

Doon frae Troon said:



			No one is talking about 'lump it football'.
Morocco were very good at close ball control whilst running at speed, generally in threes and fours. USA were also lively and played with fast attacking skills.
Rather like the Dutch style of a couple of decades ago.

*Tippy Tappy football is certainly not entertaining, drives new fans away.
Go out and win should be the thinking before a game not make sure you don't lose.*

Click to expand...

“Drives new fans away” 😂😂

Any chance of providing context to that please 

And Morocco played a high press looking to create pressure and then go on the break - it’s a tactic that a number of teams employ , but it doesn’t always win trophies as we can see by the two teams in the final.

Not sure what teams you believe play not to lose but it’s not the teams that win trophies 

And USA ? Again the odd game where some sets up to counter and then breaks at pace isn’t new and certainly won’t represent a shift in power 

You keep saying “tippy tappy” football but which teams are you referring to ? At least provide some context ?


Swinglowandslow said:



			What’s your definition of Standard in the context you wrote it.?

*- Hoddle , Hansen , Molby - now those level of players are the standard and players need to be extra ordinary to stand out.*

To me that is saying that by todays ratings they are ordinary and players of today need to be better, or as you say extra ordinary.
		
Click to expand...

It means exactly what it says - those players who were very comfortable with the ball at their feet were at lot rarer in the 70/80/90’s so they stood out - now there a lot more players who are a lot more comfortable with the ball at their feet and a good number more who are better. Yes the level of the game has increased hugely so players now need to be a lot better to stand out 




			As for goalies and feet, you have not addressed my point that they need not be “good” with their feet because they shouldn’t be in a tactic where they need to be. I.e. tippy tappy with backs in dangerous areas, in order to achieve what?
		
Click to expand...

“Tippy tappy” ?! Why do you call it that when it’s about possession football ? 

Here it is in a nutshell - a lot more teams sit deep now , they sit deep looking to find a way to soak up pressure and then to break quickly 

Teams try and combat that by trying to bring people out by controlling the ball , passing it around , trying to get teams to press higher and keeping the ball - that including a goalkeeper who can be comfortable with the ball at his feet , invite players to dive in which has the potential to then have that player out of the game for long enough to bring others out of their position. 

You can call it tippy tappy if you want but that just shows a lack of understanding of why teams want to protect and keep the ball 

If you want to see some teams that do it well - pick the the Spain team that won the WC and two European Champions , the France team that won the World Cup , the Barcelona team which won everything 

Teams can’t win if they can’t control the ball and possession 




			Anyway, I’ve made the point more than once , I don’t intend to go on in a me and you , me and you thread😀.  We’ve made our points. Let’s not bore further.
		
Click to expand...

It’s just a conversation 🤷‍♂️


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 18, 2022)

Lloris staying down long enough for the tactical advice to come in from the sidelines


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 18, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Matterface,Dixon and Mccoist on ITV.

BBC it is then!
		
Click to expand...

But they have jermaine jenas as co-commentator . Biggest game of the year and jermaine gets the gig


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 18, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			But they have jermaine jenas as co-commentator . Biggest game of the year and jermaine gets the gig 

Click to expand...

I see your point, but who was the alternative? Dion Dublin?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 18, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I see your point, but who was the alternative? Dion Dublin?
		
Click to expand...

Dion is never the alternative 😆


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 18, 2022)

Ohh dear Dembele, not in a World Cup final


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			But they have jermaine jenas as co-commentator . Biggest game of the year and jermaine gets the gig 

Click to expand...

Would take McCoist over Jenas and most others 

Not sure why Dublin gets a hard deal - he gets loads of stick but surely he can say what he wants after putting a nut on Savage 

edit - minimal contact , didn’t need to do it , bought a penalty


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 18, 2022)

Bit of a soft penalty .


----------



## Billysboots (Dec 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Bit of a soft penalty .
		
Click to expand...

Very soft. Let’s hope that doesn’t decide this game.


----------



## BrianM (Dec 18, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Ohh dear Dembele, not in a World Cup final
		
Click to expand...

Sunday league foul, ref had no choice 🤬


----------



## srixon 1 (Dec 18, 2022)

An early goal, great for us neutrals if it opens up the game. France will have to try harder now.


----------



## BrianM (Dec 18, 2022)

Hopefully France will come out and play now, they’ve been poor so far.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 18, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Sunday league foul, ref had no choice 🤬
		
Click to expand...

I know. He panicked after getting beat. Silly


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 18, 2022)

Dembele…..It wasn’t me, I never!

commentators saying there wasn’t enough in it for him to go down , etc.
Hey.?  Where does the rules say that you can push an opponent in the back?


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Bit of a soft penalty .
		
Click to expand...

Was there any contact? I did't see any until well after Di Maria dived.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 18, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Matterface,Dixon and Mccoist on ITV.

BBC it is then!
		
Click to expand...

Seriously? ITV line up has been far superior this world cup. I just wish it was Laura Woods in studio instead of Poogatch. McCoist is the best co-comms, Keane and Neville in the studio as well, excellent.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 18, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			Very soft. Let’s hope that doesn’t decide this game.
		
Click to expand...

They deserve the lead .
I heard A Taylor was doing the final.
He must be biased then !
So a more neutral ref.??


----------



## paddyc (Dec 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Bit of a soft penalty .
		
Click to expand...

Soft but Di Maria clever and Dembele should have kept well away. Easy decision for ref.


----------



## 2blue (Dec 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Bit of a soft penalty .
		
Click to expand...

Nay....  French cloggers at it again, after conceding so many to England. May be a few more yet!!


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 18, 2022)

Messi jumps into a player, potentially dangerously and he gets the free kick


----------



## Billysboots (Dec 18, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Was there any contact? I did't see any until well after Di Maria dived.
		
Click to expand...

I must say that, to me, it looked like Di Maria was already falling before any contact.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 18, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would take McCoist over Jenas and most others

Not sure why Dublin gets a hard deal - he gets loads of stick but surely he can say what he wants after putting a nut on Savage

edit - minimal contact , didn’t need to do it , bought a penalty
		
Click to expand...

McCoist is one of the best, I'm happy with him.

I think Shearer is usually okay but he has been on pundit duty. I don't think the beeb has an outstanding co commentator at the moment, they need to identify someone who isn't utterly vanilla. 

Dublin is just poor. Tries to be funny, it doesn't work.


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 18, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			I must say that, to me, it looked like Di Maria was already falling before any contact.
		
Click to expand...

That's what I saw, I need to see some more replays at half time.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 18, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Seriously? ITV line up has been far superior this world cup. I just wish it was Laura Woods in studio instead of Poogatch. McCoist is the best co-comms, Keane and Neville in the studio as well, excellent.
		
Click to expand...

No i like the Keane Neville and
Wright in the studio as opposed to the BBC. Just don't like Matterface and Guy Mowbray  I think is good.


----------



## Billysboots (Dec 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			They deserve the lead .
		
Click to expand...

They do, I agree. But I’d still not want to see a game of this magnitude decided by a highly debatable penalty.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 18, 2022)

I wasn't sure who I wanted to win least until kick off - the answer is emphatically France! They'd be insufferable and Argentina can disappear back to South America and won't be in our faces...


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 18, 2022)

paddyc said:



			No i like the Keane Neville and
Wright in the studio as opposed to the BBC. Just don't like Matterface and Guy Mowbray  I think is good.
		
Click to expand...

We need a merger of Guy Mowbray commentating, McCoist on Co, Lineker hosting, Keane, Neville and Klinsmann in the studio.

Oh, and can someone bring back Martin O'Neil in the studio. He was wonderful at past tournaments.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 18, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			I wasn't sure who I wanted to win least until kick off - the answer is emphatically France! They'd be insufferable and Argentina can disappear back to South America and won't be in our faces...
		
Click to expand...

I’m already fed up of hearing about Messi tho 😬.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 18, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			They do, I agree. But I’d still not want to see a game of this magnitude decided by a highly debatable penalty.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think it was that debatable. Seemed like an arm in the back followed by a heel clip. There wasn't much of a wait for the review either so obviously didn't feel the ref made an error.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 18, 2022)

When are they bringing Mbappe on..... ?


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 18, 2022)

Great goal!


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 18, 2022)

That was beautiful football


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 18, 2022)

That is class


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 18, 2022)

Argentina are showing that France are not that good.
But they beat us.
That’s down to tactics.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 18, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			I’m already fed up of hearing about Messi tho 😬.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed and it's a strange one for me as I'm not sure I like him very much...


----------



## Billysboots (Dec 18, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			When are they bringing Mbappe on..... ?
		
Click to expand...

They’re saving him for the replay.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 18, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We need a merger of Guy Mowbray commentating, McCoist on Co, Lineker hosting, Keane, Neville and Klinsmann in the studio.

Oh, and can someone bring back Martin O'Neil in the studio. He was wonderful at past tournaments.
		
Click to expand...

Surely there’s a spot for Laura Woods?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2022)

Heck of a goal - can’t see France getting back from this , way off the pace in this game so far, I hope it’s not because of the squirts illness they have had


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 18, 2022)

Nice goal that...


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 18, 2022)

That weren't a bad goal


----------



## Billysboots (Dec 18, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Surely there’s a spot for Laura Woods?
		
Click to expand...

There is. On my sofa.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 18, 2022)

Pc Younger from  Heartbeat scores!


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 18, 2022)

Di Maria in tears. Might be worth getting his game face back on


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 18, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			I’m already fed up of hearing about Messi tho 😬.
		
Click to expand...

Great team goal but Messi will get the credit.


----------



## HowlingGale (Dec 18, 2022)

That'll be replayed for years. Wow.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Great team goal but Messi will get the credit.
		
Click to expand...

His touch at the start was superb 

He has been excellent so far in this game. Everything is going through him


----------



## Billysboots (Dec 18, 2022)

Did we really lose to France? They’ve been absolutely dreadful so far.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 18, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Di Maria in tears. Might be worth getting his game face back on
		
Click to expand...

Ridiculous - he needs to get a grip and save the blubbing for full time.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Argentina are showing that France are not that good.
But they beat us.
That’s down to tactics.
		
Click to expand...

In what way are the tactics different?


----------



## 2blue (Dec 18, 2022)

Great goal but Mbappe had contact left on him but didn't go down, so not given, should have had a free kick at the other end. Referees don't give them unless player makes it clear. However don't feel sad for the French.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 18, 2022)

I am genuinely astonished that none of the footballers in the World Cup have died or lost a limb....


----------



## Billysboots (Dec 18, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			His touch at the start was superb

He has been excellent so far in this game. *Everything is going through him*

Click to expand...

That’s been France’s problem all week. Allegedly.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Argentina are showing that France are not that good.
But they beat us.
That’s down to tactics.
		
Click to expand...

Not completely, we were again just a miss pen away from staying in


----------



## Piece (Dec 18, 2022)

Hey Gareth, that's how to play...one touch counter attack.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 18, 2022)

That's a manager with balls - don't like him but admire the reaction.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			That's a manager with balls - don't like him but admire the reaction.
		
Click to expand...

It’s looking like he started with players that either weren’t well enough or carrying injuries - France players way below their level at the moment. Looks like he took a risk and it’s not worked


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 18, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Ridiculous - he needs to get a grip and save the blubbing for full time.
		
Click to expand...

Did you just channel your inner Roy Keane? 😂


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 18, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Surely there’s a spot for Laura Woods?
		
Click to expand...

Don't know her well enough 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## Piece (Dec 18, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			There is. On my sofa.
		
Click to expand...

Sofa? 😯😆


----------



## Billysboots (Dec 18, 2022)

Piece said:



			Sofa? 😯😆
		
Click to expand...

It’s too early for bed. 😇


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 18, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			It’s too early for bed.
		
Click to expand...

👏 👏 well played sir 😂😂


----------



## Piece (Dec 18, 2022)

Billysboots said:



			It’s too early for bed.
		
Click to expand...

Youngsters, eh? 😆😜


----------



## Captainron (Dec 18, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Surely there’s a spot for Laura Woods?
		
Click to expand...

I’d make time for her 😄


----------



## Dando (Dec 18, 2022)

Captainron said:



			I’d make time for her 😄
		
Click to expand...

5 seconds?


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 18, 2022)

What on earth was that by Fernandez? Pretend to be injured for a minute to.not get booked, then get booked when he tries to get up and sneak away.


----------



## Dando (Dec 18, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			What on earth was that by Fernandez? Pretend to be injured for a minute to.not get booked, then get booked when he tries to get up and sneak away.
		
Click to expand...

we’ve got 45 mins of play acting coming up


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 18, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			In what way are the tactics different?
		
Click to expand...

Argentina are really pushing unto them not giving them time like we did.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 18, 2022)

Well, that is the penalty confirmed. Wasn't buying it at all. Dembele's leg hit Di Maria's, which pushed it into his other leg, down he goes.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 18, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, that is the penalty confirmed. Wasn't buying it at all. Dembele's leg hit Di Maria's, which pushed it into his other leg, down he goes.
		
Click to expand...

Yes agree but a bootlace would put Di Maria down.


----------



## HowlingGale (Dec 18, 2022)

Yeah stonewall penalty. Just shows you can't really see it, even with about 20 angles on TV. The ref got it 100% correct.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 18, 2022)

Strange. BBC showed a different angle on penalty incident, which shows it is absolutely clear. No one could stay on feet, as Di Maria's foot (the one about to he his standing foot) was deflected into his other leg, and so he no foot to land on.

ITV showed 4 replays, but only ones shown during game, and all pretty rubbish angles. Thought they'd have access to same stuff?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 18, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Not completely, we were again just a miss pen away from staying in
		
Click to expand...

But no goals in open play .
No substitutions changed any game it was like for like all the time.
Sometimes you need to do what France have just done.
Take your leading scorer off because he’s been crap.
What did GS do Saka off Sterling on.


----------



## BrianM (Dec 18, 2022)

The boy MacAllister for me, has been the best player on the pitch, he seems to be everywhere.
France need to go all out attack now.


----------



## Neilds (Dec 18, 2022)

Some of these players must have had to have a general anaesthetic to have their tattoos the way they are in agony after a little tap on the ankle in a tackle! 😲


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2022)

It's always nice to see the frogs get beat.

Couldnt be happier for Messi to win it.


----------



## Captainron (Dec 18, 2022)

Dando said:



			5 seconds?
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 18, 2022)

BrianM said:



			The boy MacAllister for me, has been the best player on the pitch, he seems to be everywhere.
France need to go all out attack now.
		
Click to expand...

Excellent player. I don't think he'll be remaining at Brighton for very long.


----------



## Captainron (Dec 18, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Excellent player. I don't think he'll be remaining at Brighton for very long.
		
Click to expand...

He’s definitely put his value up. Brighton should cash in and send him abroad


----------



## Dando (Dec 18, 2022)

Captainron said:





Click to expand...

You might get 2 goes in mate


----------



## GreiginFife (Dec 18, 2022)

Interesting...


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 18, 2022)

No doubt penalty.  Think with their hormones .


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 18, 2022)

That’s soft


----------



## paddyc (Dec 18, 2022)

Unbelievable!!


----------



## upsidedown (Dec 18, 2022)

wow


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2022)

Wow - stunning


----------



## Imurg (Dec 18, 2022)

Well well well..
From God losing the ball......


----------



## srixon 1 (Dec 18, 2022)

Wow


----------



## Piece (Dec 18, 2022)

Oooooooooooooooooo!


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 18, 2022)

Is Di Maria still crying?


----------



## Billysboots (Dec 18, 2022)

What a finish that is.


----------



## Dando (Dec 18, 2022)

Infraction me! What a goal.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 18, 2022)

Keeper has to save that.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 18, 2022)

I said to me lad at half time this could be the best final ever.  Argentina were so dominant and should France get into it. Well they have.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 18, 2022)

Oh wow.. Mbappe finally turned up.


----------



## HowlingGale (Dec 18, 2022)

Another that will be seen for years. Wow No. 2.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 18, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Keeper has to save that.
		
Click to expand...

Not unless he’s an Orangutan


----------



## Imurg (Dec 18, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Keeper has to save that.
		
Click to expand...

Well he hasn't had a lot to do up to 10 minutes ago..


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 18, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			It's always nice to see the frogs get beat.

Couldnt be happier for Messi to win it.
		
Click to expand...

You might have gone a bit early there Stu. 🙂


----------



## fundy (Dec 18, 2022)

Great decision ref, even if i am on the hat trick lol


----------



## Imurg (Dec 18, 2022)

Finally,  3 minutes from the end of the competition...
Someone gets booked for diving


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			You might have gone a bit early there Stu. 🙂
		
Click to expand...

Story of my life colch🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 18, 2022)

Ref did well to spot that dive. He's had a decent game you have to say.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2022)

This ref has been spot on , getting all the big calls right

The pitch itself looks a mess

Quality finish from Mbappe , Thuram making a big difference, bet his £10mil price tag increases


----------



## pendodave (Dec 18, 2022)

Glad the ref booked him.
Hate the hanging the leg out pen. Aka, the H Kane special....


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 18, 2022)

Argies sitting back has backfired on them big time.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 18, 2022)

pendodave said:



			Glad the ref booked him.
Hate the hanging the leg out pen. Aka, the H Kane special....
		
Click to expand...

Yes but no card for Otamendi for the pen.
One dragged him back by the shorts no card
Inconsistent.


----------



## srixon 1 (Dec 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Argies sitting back has backfired on them big time.
		
Click to expand...

They don’t seem to be rolling around on the floor anymore either.


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but no card for Otamendi for the pen.
One dragged him back by the shorts no card
Inconsistent.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why he stopped play when the France player was fouled when breaking, France had a great chance to get in behind but the ref blew.


----------



## backwoodsman (Dec 18, 2022)

Allez les bleus ...


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 18, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			I'm not sure why he stopped play when the France player was fouled when breaking, France had a great chance to get in behind but the ref blew.
		
Click to expand...

Agree, he’s let some play advantage and not others.
He’s got all the big ones correct.
But some strange ones.

Messi pulling back with two hands on shorts nothing


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Argies sitting back has backfired on them big time.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, shouldn’t have taken Tia Maria off. Caffeine levels went down


----------



## Imurg (Dec 18, 2022)

Anyone being subbed off now " thank God I haven't got to take a penalty".....


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Anyone being subbed off now " thank God I haven't got to take a penalty".....
		
Click to expand...

Nah, I've got a feeling theres a winner coming....

#septicpeg


----------



## Rlburnside (Dec 18, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Yes, shouldn’t have taken Tia Maria off. Caffeine levels went down
		
Click to expand...

Yes he was having a good game, out of interest is there any rule that says you can’t bring a subbed player back on ?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 18, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Anyone being subbed off now " thank God I haven't got to take a penalty".....
		
Click to expand...

If you think that you shouldn't be playing. Surely they are thinking 'I could be the hero'. There can't be a bigger buzz.


----------



## Wabinez (Dec 18, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Yes he was having a good game, out of interest is there any rule that says you can’t bring a subbed player back on ?
		
Click to expand...

nope. Can bring them back on again. Don’t think it happened before though!


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 18, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Yes he was having a good game, out of interest is there any rule that says you can’t bring a subbed player back on ?
		
Click to expand...

Is this a joke?? 🤣


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 18, 2022)

Wabinez said:



			nope. Can bring them back on again. Don’t think it happened before though!
		
Click to expand...

Sorry to disagree but I'm fairly sure you're wrong. It's allowed in youth football but not in professional football.


----------



## Wabinez (Dec 18, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Sorry to disagree but I'm fairly sure you're wrong. It's allowed in youth football but not in professional football.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.thefa.com/football-rule...ws/football-5-5/law-3---the-number-of-players

“A player who has been replaced may return to the pitch as a substitute for another player.”

EDIT: hold up, that may be small sided games


----------



## Imurg (Dec 18, 2022)

Kept onside by an arse..


----------



## 2blue (Dec 18, 2022)

& here we have it. The beautiful game really is the best in the world despite all its 'naughty' bits.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 18, 2022)

Here we go ….again


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 18, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Yes he was having a good game, out of interest is there any rule that says you can’t bring a subbed player back on ?
		
Click to expand...




Wabinez said:



			nope. Can bring them back on again. Don’t think it happened before though!
		
Click to expand...

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-3---the-players

You can't in senior pro football


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 18, 2022)

I was looking forward to penalties but never mind. At least it's Argentina and not France!


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2022)

Madness


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 18, 2022)

Wow. Crazy final.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 18, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I was looking forward to penalties but never mind. At least it's Argentina and not France!
		
Click to expand...

Back on then 🤣


----------



## srixon 1 (Dec 18, 2022)

Balls of steel.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 18, 2022)

Big cajoonas. Huge


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 18, 2022)

Fortunate to see the greatest ever final.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 18, 2022)

Wow…


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 18, 2022)

Bloody hell, I’ve got a quiz to go to 🤣


----------



## Dando (Dec 18, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Kept onside by an arse..

Click to expand...

Piers Morgan was on the pitch?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 18, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Bloody hell, I’ve got a quiz to go to 🤣
		
Click to expand...

You can't leave this early, you just can't.


----------



## IanM (Dec 18, 2022)

I've seen worse games!

Shame someone has to lose on pens.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 18, 2022)

Oh my word…what a match…


----------



## backwoodsman (Dec 18, 2022)

Well, well ...

And it wasn't even that interesting for the first 70 mins


----------



## 2blue (Dec 18, 2022)

Beezerk said:



			Bloody hell, I’ve got a quiz to go to 🤣
		
Click to expand...

There'll be nobody there surely??


----------



## Piece (Dec 18, 2022)

🫣🤐🫣😳


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 18, 2022)

Wish they had an additional 30 mins extra time.

Martinez, the striker, rubbish. Martinez the keeper did his bit though


----------



## upsidedown (Dec 18, 2022)

Class


----------



## Dando (Dec 18, 2022)

Picking a winner is like choosing which    Leg you want hacked off with a spoon


----------



## fundy (Dec 18, 2022)

Dando said:



			Picking a winner is like choosing which    Leg you want hacked off with a spoon
		
Click to expand...


not the middle one


----------



## Dando (Dec 18, 2022)

Keeper off his line there?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2022)

Well Martinez antics making a big difference here

Argies and Messi winning the World Cup

Heck of a game - tough one for any team to loss with the way it’s panned out

France had two huge chances to win it right at the end

Worth Argentina winning it to see Fake Ronaldos biggest fan Piers Morgan throwing his toys out 

Messi - football , completed it 🐐


----------



## Dando (Dec 18, 2022)

bugger


----------



## Fade and Die (Dec 18, 2022)

Enjoyable. Couldn’t pick who I wanted to lose so just sat back and enjoyed the drama! 😁


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2022)

What a WC Final👌


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 18, 2022)

Great game and perfect ending - broken French hearts - I'm finding that quite enjoyable 

Has Mbappe stopped looking for himself on the big screens?!


----------



## 2blue (Dec 18, 2022)

Mbappa has to swap shirts with Messie


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 18, 2022)

Martinez last minute save and penalty saves - impressive stuff.


----------



## 2blue (Dec 18, 2022)

2blue said:



			Mbappa has to swap shirts with Messie
		
Click to expand...

Just to get their spelling right....  haha


----------



## srixon 1 (Dec 18, 2022)

Get a hat trick in the WCF and lose. Nightmare


----------



## Aztecs27 (Dec 18, 2022)

Incredible final. Messi has completed football. The best footballer I have ever seen in 38 years on this planet. If you don’t rate him, I really don’t think you understand football.


----------



## Aztecs27 (Dec 18, 2022)

srixon 1 said:



			Get a hat trick in the WCF and lose. Nightmare
		
Click to expand...

Shame, that.


----------



## Piece (Dec 18, 2022)

Great to see. Deserved winners.

Time to step up now Gareth!!


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 18, 2022)

Zabaletta  Love the emotion


----------



## Dando (Dec 18, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Incredible final. Messi has completed football. The best footballer I have ever seen in 38 years on this planet. If you don’t rate him, I really don’t think you understand football.
		
Click to expand...

Better than heskey?


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 18, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Incredible final. Messi has completed football. The best footballer I have ever seen in 38 years on this planet. If you don’t rate him, I really don’t think you understand football.
		
Click to expand...

Who the hell doesn't rate him? 🤣


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 18, 2022)

Fair play to both teams, they both tried to win it (albeit France turned up late).

Can't help but think if England got to final, they'd be more focused on stopping the opponents playing. Might have been 1-0 either way, but probably not to England


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 18, 2022)

Great game. Messi completing the set. 

The Argentina fans have been awesome too.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 18, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Who the hell doesn't rate him? 🤣
		
Click to expand...

I think some people assume that if anyone ever doesn't put Messi as the GOAT, then they don't rate him. One extreme to the other


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 18, 2022)

How Argentina finished with 11 men on the pitch I never know, perhaps FIFA had decided who was going to win


----------



## Aztecs27 (Dec 18, 2022)

Dando said:



			Better than heskey?
		
Click to expand...

*just*


----------



## 2blue (Dec 18, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Incredible final. Messi has completed football. The best footballer I have ever seen in 38 years on this planet. If you don’t rate him, I really don’t think you understand football.
		
Click to expand...

Football.....  what a game this is......  the only true 'world game's or is there another?


----------



## Dando (Dec 18, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Who the hell doesn't rate him? 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Pies moron!


----------



## Aztecs27 (Dec 18, 2022)

I hope the French lads that missed pens don’t get the Saka treatment.


----------



## Aztecs27 (Dec 18, 2022)

2blue said:



			Football.....  what a game this is......  the only true 'world game's or is there another?
		
Click to expand...

I don’t understand how people can’t like it? Where else would you get 2+ hours of drama like that (rigged or not 😅)


----------



## Piece (Dec 18, 2022)

Sergio Aguero doing a John Terry! 😆


----------



## Dando (Dec 18, 2022)

Nice to see the best penalty takers going first unlike a certain crybaby


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 18, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			I don’t understand how people can’t like it? Where else would you get 2+ hours of drama like that (rigged or not 😅)
		
Click to expand...

How long is the final of Strictly Come Dancing?


----------



## Dando (Dec 18, 2022)

Piece said:



			Sergio Aguero doing a John Terry! 😆
		
Click to expand...

John terry has got changed too


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 18, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I think some people assume that if anyone ever doesn't put Messi as the GOAT, then they don't rate him. One extreme to the other
		
Click to expand...

Exactly that. Only the second best player of all time - rubbish.


----------



## Billysboots (Dec 18, 2022)

After a distinctly one sided first half that has to be the best World Cup final most of us will ever see. Fabulous game of football.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 18, 2022)

Thought the Argies deserved it just. Congratulations to them.
France turned up late ,it’s hard to win from 2-0 down.

Mbappe ? pens should not count for the golden boot always thought that.
You could have a keeper win it if he took the pens and the golden gloves outfield player can’t win that.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thought the Argies deserved it just. Congratulations to them.
France turned up late ,it’s hard to win from 2-0 down.

Mbappe ? *pens should not count for the golden boot always thought that.*
You could have a keeper win it if he took the pens and the golden gloves outfield player can’t win that.
		
Click to expand...

sorry but what 😳

It’s a goal - why on Earth should it not count towards any golden boot 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Piece (Dec 18, 2022)

Mac Allistair was sensational tonight. Arguably MoM.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thought the Argies deserved it just. Congratulations to them.
France turned up late ,it’s hard to win from 2-0 down.

Mbappe ? pens should not count for the golden boot always thought that.
You could have a keeper win it if he took the pens and the golden gloves outfield player can’t win that.
		
Click to expand...

So, you don't want penalties to count, because a goalkeeper could win it, whereas an outfield player can't win golden glove?

Strange logic.

If a keeper won the golden boot because he took penalties, absolutely fair play to him.


----------



## Rlburnside (Dec 18, 2022)

Pity the French player went and picked the ball up after Martinez threw it away. 

What if he stood still and refused to go and get the ball, ref should have made Martinez go and retrieve it.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 18, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Well well well..
From God losing the ball......
		
Click to expand...

That's the thing . Mistakes happen, especially when you are the focal point for a team 

But as any mistake in life it's how you deal with it and go forward 

He recovered fantastically and for me goes down as the greatest ever


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 18, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			sorry but what 😳

It’s a goal - why on Earth should it not count towards any golden boot 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Just my opinion strikers are supposed to be goal scorers pens are like fishing in a barrel.


----------



## 2blue (Dec 18, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Pity the French player went and picked the ball up after Martinez threw it away.

What if he stood still and refused to go and get the ball, ref should have made Martinez go and retrieve it.
		
Click to expand...

All part of football's theatre....  most sports have their ugly bits.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 18, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			Pity the French player went and picked the ball up after Martinez threw it away.

What if he stood still and refused to go and get the ball, ref should have made Martinez go and retrieve it.
		
Click to expand...

Yes and booked him for it.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 18, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			So, you don't want penalties to count, because a goalkeeper could win it, whereas an outfield player can't win golden glove?

Strange logic.

If a keeper won the golden boot because he took penalties, absolutely fair play to him.
		
Click to expand...

No I don’t !
But if you do that’s ok.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 18, 2022)

Piece said:



			Mac Allistair was sensational tonight. Arguably MoM.
		
Click to expand...

Definitely for me .


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 18, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			Incredible final. Messi has completed football. The best footballer I have ever seen in 38 years on this planet. If you don’t rate him, I really don’t think you understand football.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that there is anyone that doesn't "rate him", at least not outside of a room with padded walls, but there will always be the argument about whether he is the greatest ever or not. And it's a discussion with no correct answer. Some will say Messi, others Ronaldo, and then there's players like Pele, Puskas and Maradonna to throw into the mix. Anyone could make a compelling argument for any of those five to be considered the greatest ever.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just my opinion strikers are supposed to be goal scorers *pens are like fishing in a barrel.*

Click to expand...

I'm not sure that certain England players from previous tournaments or certain French players from tonight would agree with you.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			No I don’t !
But if you do that’s ok.
		
Click to expand...

Should free kicks count? I remember Chilavert used to take free kicks for Paraguay, so there would be a danger of a keeper getting a few on the score sheet.

If penalties were not to count, does that mean we don't need to be sad about Kane's miss?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just my opinion strikers are supposed to be goal scorers pens are like fishing in a barrel.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂

Scoring a penalty is scoring a goal 😂😂


Shall we take all those golden boots away from the likes of Kane, Salah, Shearer etc because some are penalties 

Sometimes you come up with some strange stuff about football but that’s up there with the best 

what about free kicks ? 

If scoring penalties is like fishing in barrel how come so many are missed and also by the best


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 18, 2022)

Why did they put Messi in a dress? Surely the country of Argentina want the legacy of him in an Argentine shirt? It looks like he was getting an honoury degree


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 18, 2022)

I think the French lad that missed his penalty after having to collect the ball missed because he knew he had to hit the corners. Martinez got a strong hand to Mbappes and saved the next. All added to the pressure.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 18, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Why did they put Messi in a dress? Surely the country of Argentina want the legacy of him in an Argentine shirt? It looks like he was getting an honoury degree
		
Click to expand...

They made a right pigs ear of that! Trophy should be central to where the squad are standing and lifted from there. Stupido! As for the cloak thing - what??!!


----------



## Piece (Dec 18, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'm not sure that there is anyone that doesn't "rate him", at least not outside of a room with padded walls, but there will always be the argument about whether he is the greatest ever or not. And it's a discussion with no correct answer. Some will say Messi, others Ronaldo, and then there's players like Pele, Puskas and Maradonna to throw into the mix. Anyone could make a compelling argument for any of those five to be considered the greatest ever.
		
Click to expand...

Today's result has confirmed that Messi absolutely does deserve to be in the same bracket as the other greats who have won the WC.


----------



## Piece (Dec 18, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			They made a right pigs ear of that! Trophy should be central to where the squad are standing and lifted from there. Stupido! As for the cloak thing - what??!!
		
Click to expand...

Ha yes. I thought Infantino had won the WC!


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thought the Argies deserved it just. Congratulations to them.
France turned up late ,it’s hard to win from 2-0 down.

Mbappe ? pens should not count for the golden boot always thought that.
You could have a keeper win it if he took the pens and the golden gloves outfield player can’t win that.
		
Click to expand...

You make it sound like a penalty is a tap-in goal, but as Englishmen we know better than anybody that that isn't the case. 😂


----------



## Baldy Bouncer (Dec 18, 2022)




----------



## Piece (Dec 18, 2022)

Is Roy Keane auditioning for The Three Musketeers?


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 18, 2022)

There’s a photo doing social media of all the trophies Messi has. Lordy flippin Lordy.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 18, 2022)

Fantastic  last 40 mins and the drama of pens First 80 a stroll for Argentina  and a bit boring except that lovely goal by Di Maria.
Happy for Messi  Caps off a brilliant  career and for me the best player ever.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 18, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			There’s a photo doing social media of all the trophies Messi has. Lordy flippin Lordy.
		
Click to expand...

He’s just the one behind Danny Alves now!


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 18, 2022)

Anyone got any plans for next weekend now the WC is over?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 18, 2022)

Well got to say,they’ve put on a pretty good World Cup 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2022)

Aztecs27 said:



			I hope the French lads that missed pens don’t get the Saka treatment.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately they have been  - both Coman and Touchmeni have been subjected to racist abuse on social media


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 18, 2022)

Piece said:



			Today's result has confirmed that Messi absolutely does deserve to be in the same bracket as the other greats who have won the WC.
		
Click to expand...

Even without today's result I don't think that there ever was, or at least ever should've been, an argument that Messi shouldn't be up in that bracket. It's just down to personal opinion where he sits in the list of greatest ever. As I said previously there's no right or wrong answer to that as it's so subjective and personal.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 18, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Unfortunately they have been  - both Coman and Touchmeni have been subjected to racist abuse on social media
		
Click to expand...

Just goes to show that every country has their share of idiots ( <---- Fragger friendly description, insert your own stronger word for what they actually are). Coman and Tchouameni obviously missed their penalties because they were black, while Mbappe and Muani obviously scored their's because they weren't... oh hang on a minute.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2022)

For me there are a number of players that stand above and I’ll just go by players in my lifetime that I saw play ( so can’t include Pele , Puskas , Beckenbauer , Best etc )

Maradona 
Messi 
Zidane 
C Ronaldo 
Ronaldo 

Ronaldo is prob the best striker I have ever seen , it’s a shame injuries robbed him , if he didn’t have those issues then he would have smashed records - still managed to win a lot 

Zidane - another who won the lot , was out of this world at times both at Juve and Real

C Ronaldo - prob the best goalscorer seen over the years , just a goal machine and some of his records will be untouched 

Maradona - the most skillful player I have seen , he was just unplayable in 86 and then again in 90 

And then Messi - he is a combination of Maradona and C Ronaldo , 20 years he has been at the top of the game , winning everything he can and being key to those wins as well - WC is the cherry on top

That would be my top 5

1 Messi
2 Maradona 
3 C Ronaldo 
4 Zidane 
5 Ronaldo 


Have to also give an honourable mention to Ronaldinho - who is prob the most entertaining player I have ever seen and his skill on the ball just unreal


----------



## HampshireHog (Dec 18, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Well got to say,they’ve put on a pretty good World Cup 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

There’s been some cracking matches which obviously the organisers can’t take credit for, from a match only perspective maybe the best in my lifetime.

Logistically, it has been run well, but so many other issues stop me from seeing it as good World Cup.

Not sure it’s showcased Qatar in the PR light they would have hoped for.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 18, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			For me there are a number of players that stand above and I’ll just go by players in my lifetime that I saw play ( so can’t include Pele , Puskas , Beckenbauer , Best etc )

Maradona
Messi
Zidane
C Ronaldo
Ronaldo

Ronaldo is prob the best striker I have ever seen , it’s a shame injuries robbed him , if he didn’t have those issues then he would have smashed records - still managed to win a lot

Zidane - another who won the lot , was out of this world at times both at Juve and Real

C Ronaldo - prob the best goalscorer seen over the years , just a goal machine and some of his records will be untouched

Maradona - the most skillful player I have seen , he was just unplayable in 86 and then again in 90

And then Messi - he is a combination of Maradona and C Ronaldo , 20 years he has been at the top of the game , winning everything he can and being key to those wins as well - WC is the cherry on top

That would be my top 5

1 Messi
2 Maradona
3 C Ronaldo
4 Zidane
5 Ronaldo


Have to also give an honourable mention to Ronaldinho - who is prob the most entertaining player I have ever seen and his skill on the ball just unreal
		
Click to expand...

The other factor that needs to be taken into account is why it's always attacking players that get mentioned during discussions of the best ever players. Maybe the discussion should be best ever XI rather than best player. This has the added advantage of extending the argument to cover every position on the pitch.

Then we can argue if it's Buffon/Neuer/Zoff/Kahn/Schmeichel/Banks for the GK position.

Baresi/Maldini/Cafu/Beckenbauer/Carlos/Moore in defence.

Zidane/Matthaus/Xavi/Iniesta/Platini/Cruyff/Zico in midfield.

And Ronaldo x 2/Messi/Puskas/Pele/Di Stefano/Gerd Muller/Eusebio/Maradonna/Origi in attack.

Having named all of the players above I'm not sure that I could pick a best Xi and would probably need to pick two teams just to make sure that I got everyone in that deserves a mention.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 18, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂😂

Scoring a penalty is scoring a goal 😂😂


Shall we take all those golden boots away from the likes of Kane, Salah, Shearer etc because some are penalties

Sometimes you come up with some strange stuff about football but that’s up there with the best

what about free kicks ?

If scoring penalties is like fishing in barrel how come so many are missed and also by the best
		
Click to expand...

Can’t take them away they were the rules then.
I never mentioned free kick just penalty’s.

Just thinking out loud.
So Mbappe scores five worldie goals in the Euros .
But James Milner is drafted in by GS and scores six pens and wins the golden boot.
Is Milner the best goalscorer in Euros ?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 18, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			You make it sound like a penalty is a tap-in goal, but as Englishmen we know better than anybody that that isn't the case. 😂
		
Click to expand...

That goes for the French as well.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 18, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			The other factor that needs to be taken into account is why it's always attacking players that get mentioned during discussions of the best ever players. Maybe the discussion should be best ever XI rather than best player. This has the added advantage of extending the argument to cover every position on the pitch.

Then we can argue if it's Buffon/Neuer/Zoff/Kahn/Schmeichel/Banks for the GK position.

Baresi/Maldini/Cafu/Beckenbauer/Carlos/Moore in defence.

Zidane/Matthaus/Xavi/Iniesta/Platini/Cruyff/Zico in midfield.

And Ronaldo x 2/Messi/Puskas/Pele/Di Stefano/Gerd Muller/Eusebio/Maradonna/Origi in attack.

Having named all of the players above I'm not sure that I could pick a best Xi and would probably need to pick two teams just to make sure that I got everyone in that deserves a mention.
		
Click to expand...

Welcome to management at the highest level.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 18, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Should free kicks count? I remember Chilavert used to take free kicks for Paraguay, so there would be a danger of a keeper getting a few on the score sheet.

If penalties were not to count, does that mean we don't need to be sad about Kane's miss? 

Click to expand...

Never mentioned free kicks just pens.
Not sad we were just not good enough


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 18, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Can’t take them away they were the rules then.
I never mentioned free kick just penalty’s.

Just thinking out loud.
So Mbappe scores five worldie goals in the Euros .
But James Milner is drafted in by GS and scores six pens and wins the golden boot.
Is Milner the best goalscorer in Euros ?
		
Click to expand...

Well, Milner would be top scorer, if that is what you mean be best. 

Next you will be recommending each goal is rated out of 10, and top goalscorer has the highest total rating


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 18, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, Milner would be top scorer, if that is what you mean be best.

Next you will be recommending each goal is rated out of 10, and top goalscorer has the highest total rating
		
Click to expand...

No that would be silly.
Your making things up now.
Just penalties!


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			No that would be silly.
Your making things up now.
Just penalties!
		
Click to expand...

What if keeper saves penalty, but the penalty taker scores the rebound. Would you allow that to count as a goal?


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			What if keeper saves penalty, but the penalty taker scores the rebound. Would you allow that to count as a goal?
		
Click to expand...

The golden boot this year has been a proper talented golden boot 

I mean no smashing the last place group stage to boost your stats , this was a proper goal scoring treat , with a hat trick against the current world champs to boot 

That's amazing when you think about it


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			The golden boot this year has been a proper talented golden boot

I mean no smashing the last place group stage to boost your stats , this was a proper goal scoring treat , with a hat trick against the current world champs to boot

That's amazing when you think about it
		
Click to expand...

I'm glad someone doesn't think it was tarnished as it included penalties


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm glad someone doesn't think it was tarnished as it included penalties 

Click to expand...

Two pens and a tap in 😁


----------



## Voyager EMH (Dec 19, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			The other factor that needs to be taken into account is why it's always attacking players that get mentioned during discussions of the best ever players. Maybe the discussion should be best ever XI rather than best player. This has the added advantage of extending the argument to cover every position on the pitch.

Then we can argue if it's Buffon/Neuer/Zoff/Kahn/Schmeichel/Banks for the GK position.

Baresi/Maldini/Cafu/Beckenbauer/Carlos/Moore in defence.

Zidane/Matthaus/Xavi/Iniesta/Platini/Cruyff/Zico in midfield.

And Ronaldo x 2/Messi/Puskas/Pele/Di Stefano/Gerd Muller/Eusebio/Maradonna/Origi in attack.

Having named all of the players above I'm not sure that I could pick a best Xi and would probably need to pick two teams just to make sure that I got everyone in that deserves a mention.
		
Click to expand...

I like this view. Football is a team game. An attempt at goal thwarted (I shun the word "denied") is equal to a goal scored in the arithmetic of the final score.
But it is always those flair players that get the attention.
Two world XIs, what a great idea. I like your choices. Were you limiting your picks to those who had taken part in a world cup? Otherwise, where is George Best?
My personal view was that Pat Jennings was equal with Banks, though I don't expect many to agree with me.
Pele was so outstanding that his contemporaries in that great team of 1970 often go overlooked. Jairzinho would be ahead of Gerd Muller in my book.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm glad someone doesn't think it was tarnished as it included penalties 

Click to expand...

I did always wonder why a pen scored in a shoot out doesn't count towards the total! Still a goal


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 19, 2022)

Voyager EMH said:



			I like this view. Football is a team game. An attempt at goal thwarted (I shun the word "denied") is equal to a goal scored in the arithmetic of the final score.
But it is always those flair players that get the attention.
Two world XIs, what a great idea. I like your choices. Were you limiting your picks to those who had taken part in a world cup? Otherwise, where is George Best?
My personal view was that Pat Jennings was equal with Banks, though I don't expect many to agree with me.
Pele was so outstanding that his contemporaries in that great team of 1970 often go overlooked. Jairzinho would be ahead of Gerd Muller in my book.
		
Click to expand...

It wasn't designed as an exhaustive list, it was simply the best players in each position that popped into my head as I was typing. And Divock Origi. 

Also realised after I'd posted it that the side might be a bit unbalanced without a Makele type midfielder in there.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I did always wonder why a pen scored in a shoot out doesn't count towards the total! Still a goal
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, but I guess it isn't a goal in the normal course of play. The penalties in a shootout are not "earned".

Likewise, I'd be disappointed as a keeper if I didn't get the Golden Glove, having got 7 clean sheets, but conceded 9 or 10 penalties in a few shoot outs


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			What if keeper saves penalty, but the penalty taker scores the rebound. Would you allow that to count as a goal?
		
Click to expand...

I would say yes as all the other players and the ball are back in play once the keeper has saved it.
There is lots about this subject online it’s quite interesting.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm glad someone doesn't think it was tarnished as it included penalties 

Click to expand...

He only scored one “proper goal” imo.
I wonder what Sir Geoff Hurst thinks.?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			I did always wonder why a pen scored in a shoot out doesn't count towards the total! Still a goal
		
Click to expand...

All five would need to be taken even if losing 4-0.
It would be unfair on the non taker to be denied his “ goal”


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah, but I guess it isn't a goal in the normal course of play. The penalties in a shootout are not "earned".

Likewise, I'd be disappointed as a keeper if I didn't get the Golden Glove, having got 7 clean sheets, but conceded 9 or 10 penalties in a few shoot outs
		
Click to expand...

What about a striker who scores open play goals but is beaten to the golden boot by a penalty taker ,no sympathy for him but lots for a keeper.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I would say yes as all the other players and the ball are back in play once the keeper has saved it.
There is lots about this subject online it’s quite interesting.
		
Click to expand...

So, striker hits the perfect penalty, you don't allow it. He hits an absolute duffer, keeper saves it, but striker gets a tap in, you allow it. 

Honestly, I don't think your proposal will ever catch on


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			So, striker hits the perfect penalty, you don't allow it. He hits an absolute duffer, keeper saves it, but striker gets a tap in, you allow it.

Honestly, I don't think your proposal will ever catch on
		
Click to expand...

Catch on !
Penalties were not included in the golden boot years ago
It’s a recent inclusion.


----------



## Neilds (Dec 19, 2022)

Why are the BBC celebrating the 'mind games' of the Argentine keeper during the shoot out?  Throwing the ball away, etc is cheating to me and he should not be made out to be some kind of hero.  The sooner commentators, journalists, etc start to call out cheating it may hit home with the players and they might start to tone it down a bit. (or probably not!)


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 19, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Why are the BBC celebrating the 'mind games' of the Argentine keeper during the shoot out?  Throwing the ball away, etc is cheating to me and he should not be made out to be some kind of hero.  The sooner commentators, journalists, etc start to call out cheating it may hit home with the players and they might start to tone it down a bit. (or probably not!)
		
Click to expand...

Which rule did he break?


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2022)

Question: How do FIFA select the Golden Glove winner?

Martinez from Argentina won it. However, in world cup he conceded 2 against Saudi Arabia, 1 against Australia, 2 against Netherlands, 3 against France and 3 clean sheets (total of 8 goals, avg 1.14 per game)

England conceded 2 against Iran, 2 against France and 3 clean sheets (total of 4 goals, avg of 0.8 per game).

Morocco conceded 1 against Canada, 2 against France and 4 clean sheets (total of 2 goals, avg 0.5 per game) - I think they might have had a different keeper for 1 game, but still impressive.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Catch on !
Penalties were not included in the golden boot years ago
It’s a recent inclusion.
		
Click to expand...

Beheadings and slavery were allowed years ago, but I don't think either will "catch on" anytime soon either


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Beheadings and slavery were allowed years ago, but I don't think either will "catch on" anytime soon either
		
Click to expand...

Unless you’re the country that has just hosted the World Cup!


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 19, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Which rule did he break?
		
Click to expand...

He did getting a booking so presumably there was one. Throwing/kicking the ball away?


----------



## Neilds (Dec 19, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Which rule did he break?
		
Click to expand...

Delaying the restart of play, unsporting behaviour - neither allowed under Law 12


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Question: How do FIFA select the Golden Glove winner?

Martinez from Argentina won it. However, in world cup he conceded 2 against Saudi Arabia, 1 against Australia, 2 against Netherlands, 3 against France and 3 clean sheets (total of 8 goals, avg 1.14 per game)

England conceded 2 against Iran, 2 against France and 3 clean sheets (total of 4 goals, avg of 0.8 per game).

Morocco conceded 1 against Canada, 2 against France and 4 clean sheets (total of 2 goals, avg 0.5 per game) - I think they might have had a different keeper for 1 game, but still impressive.
		
Click to expand...

I thought it was most clean sheets but not sure the next criteria. 

From Wiki
_The Golden Glove award is awarded to the best goalkeeper of the tournament. The award was introduced with the name "Lev Yashin Award" in 1994, in honor of the late Soviet goalkeeper.[6] It was rechristened "Golden Glove" in 2010. The FIFA Technical Study Group recognises the top goalkeeper of the tournament based on the player's performance throughout the final competition. _

Turns out it's not even clean sheets, they just make it up!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Beheadings and slavery were allowed years ago, but I don't think either will "catch on" anytime soon either
		
Click to expand...

Been reading up and apparently it was a goalkeeper who invented a pen .
Bit like turkeys voting for Xmas.

Can’t find anything about beheadings in the rules losing a leg was a possibility during Smith/ Hunter era.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 19, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			He did getting a booking so presumably there was one. Throwing/kicking the ball away?
		
Click to expand...

I thought he got the booking before the following penalty? 

Whichever, it obviously worked and he has a WC winner’s medal.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Can’t take them away they were the rules then.
I never mentioned free kick just penalty’s.

Just thinking out loud.
So Mbappe scores five worldie goals in the Euros .
But James Milner is drafted in by GS and scores six pens and wins the golden boot.
Is Milner the best goalscorer in Euros ?
		
Click to expand...

Not sure you understand what the golden boot is for

It’s the “TOP” goalscorer

So at the end of the tournament the person who scored the most ( not the best ) wins the golden boot

And a goal can be scored from open play and set piece play


So yes if Milner scores 5 penalties and some scores 4 overhead kicks then Milner wins the Golden Boot - that’s just basic maths and basic football 🤷‍♂️

It’s only been that way for decades


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			I thought it was most clean sheets but not sure the next criteria.

From Wiki
_The Golden Glove award is awarded to the best goalkeeper of the tournament. The award was introduced with the name "Lev Yashin Award" in 1994, in honor of the late Soviet goalkeeper.[6] It was rechristened "Golden Glove" in 2010. The FIFA Technical Study Group recognises the top goalkeeper of the tournament based on the player's performance throughout the final competition. _

Turns out it's not even clean sheets, they just make it up!
		
Click to expand...

I thought that must be the case. Just give it to one of the guys in the final, as there is the photo opportunity at the end (although having seen some photo's circulating of Martinez, not sure that is what they were expecting  )

You could have a keeper who gets 6 clean sheets but goes out in the semi in a penalty shootout (maybe even saving 2 or 3 pens, but his team mates all missing the target), yet the award is given to a keeper in the final, who may not have kept any clean sheets at all. Maybe even got at least one hammering in the group stages.


----------



## SteveW86 (Dec 19, 2022)

Is there an award for "Goal of the World Cup"?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			He did getting a booking so presumably there was one. Throwing/kicking the ball away?
		
Click to expand...

He was booked for the penalty after the one he threw the ball away for not retreating to his line I think.

If he had been carded for the one previous what happens if he gets a red.?
You can’t substitute a red card so what happens then?
Genuinely don’t know.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not sure you understand what the golden boot is for

It’s the “TOP” goalscorer

So at the end of the tournament the person who scored the most ( not the best ) wins the golden boot

And a goal can be scored from open play and set piece play


So yes if Milner scores 5 penalties and some scores 4 overhead kicks then Milner wins the Golden Boot - that’s just basic maths and basic football 🤷‍♂️

It’s only been that way for decades
		
Click to expand...

So if someone just fancies a disscusion they don’t understand football.
It’s only you who understands.
Thanks 
Phil


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 19, 2022)

Would it be too hard to just accept someone has a different OPINION?
No need to be a knob about it 🤷‍♂️


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Would it be too hard to just accept someone has a different OPINION?
No need to be a knob about it 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Trying my best.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			So if someone just fancies a disscusion they don’t understand football.
It’s only you who understands.
Thanks
Phil
		
Click to expand...

Not at all - you just seem to be confused in regards what the Golden Boot is for when you started talking about Worldies and “Best” Goalscorer as opposed to what the Golden Boot is for which is who scores the most goals. Did you want to take away tap ins from 2 inches as well as that’s like fishing in a barrel 🤷‍♂️

As for the worldies - there are normally Goal of the Tournament polls etc 🤷‍♂️

Yes it’s an opinion you have but it’s beyond strange how someone can think that taking away legitimate goals from a top goals scored competition 😳


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Is there an award for "Goal of the World Cup"?
		
Click to expand...

My vote would go to Mbappe's second penalty in the final...


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 19, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			He was booked for the penalty after the one he threw the ball away for not retreating to his line I think.

If he had been carded for the one previous what happens if he gets a red.?
You can’t substitute a red card so what happens then?
Genuinely don’t know.
		
Click to expand...

Interesting - if the keeper gets a red card in the shootout I imagine another player (outfield player) who was on the field at full time would have to take over in goal.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 19, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			He was booked for the penalty after the one he threw the ball away for not retreating to his line I think.

If he had been carded for the one previous what happens if he gets a red.?
You can’t substitute a red card so what happens then?
Genuinely don’t know.
		
Click to expand...

One of the outfield players go in. I'd love a ref to have the bottle to do this but I suspect not.

Hopefully, the shirt will be 3 sizes too big for them, the gloves being the same. They are also not allowed to tuck the shirt in. It must be loose to make it look even more outsized.

I may be having a flashback to previous times here


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I thought that must be the case. *Just give it to one of the guys in the final, as there is the photo opportunity at the end* (although having seen some photo's circulating of Martinez, not sure that is what they were expecting  )

You could have a keeper who gets 6 clean sheets but goes out in the semi in a penalty shootout (maybe even saving 2 or 3 pens, but his team mates all missing the target), yet the award is given to a keeper in the final, who may not have kept any clean sheets at all. Maybe even got at least one hammering in the group stages.
		
Click to expand...

That makes sense but last time they gave it to Courtois who wasn't in the final so who knows. In 2014, 2010 & 2006 the winners' goalies got the award. Maybe they took it off Lloris in 2018 because he made that clanger in the final.


----------



## larmen (Dec 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			One of the outfield players go in. I'd love a ref to have the bottle to do this but I suspect not.

Hopefully, the shirt will be 3 sizes too big for them, the gloves being the same. They are also not allowed to tuck the shirt in. It must be loose to make it look even more outsized.

I may be having a flashback to previous times here 

Click to expand...

you hoping it is the captain by default? ;-)


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 19, 2022)

larmen said:



			you hoping it is the captain by default? ;-)
		
Click to expand...

Imagine that! Messi winning his final World Cup was a decent enough story, just imagine the one where he's forced to take over in goal in the shoot-out and consequently saves the final penalty!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not at all - you just seem to be confused in regards what the Golden Boot is for when you started talking about Worldies and “Best” Goalscorer as opposed to what the Golden Boot is for which is who scores the most goals. Did you want to take away tap ins from 2 inches as well as that’s like fishing in a barrel 🤷‍♂️

As for the worldies - there are normally Goal of the Tournament polls etc 🤷‍♂️

Yes it’s an opinion you have but it’s beyond strange how someone can think that taking away legitimate goals from a top goals scored competition 😳
		
Click to expand...

Now I don’t understand and am confused
It not hard to understand Phil I don’t want to confuse you .
I don’t agree simple really.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 19, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Is there an award for "Goal of the World Cup"?
		
Click to expand...

Richalison for me.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 19, 2022)

larmen said:



			you hoping it is the captain by default? ;-)
		
Click to expand...

That could be funny. Messi is 5ft7" isn't he? He would be teeny tiny in goal


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 19, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			Richalison for me.
		
Click to expand...

Richarlison's bicycle was good but that Mexican lad's free kick was out of this world too.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That could be funny. Messi is 5ft7" isn't he? He would be teeny tiny in goal 

Click to expand...

Yes that’s the problem they have in Ladies football.
Anything in the corners they can’t reach it.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Richarlison's bicycle was good but that Mexican lad's free kick was out of this world too.
		
Click to expand...

Yes that was a cracker.
Croatian lads second in the QF .
But will always be did he mean it.!


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Richarlison's bicycle was good but that Mexican lad's free kick was out of this world too.
		
Click to expand...

Surely free kicks don't count, as a goalkeeper or Milner could take free kicks?


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Imagine that! Messi winning his final World Cup was a decent enough story, just imagine the one where he's forced to take over in goal in the shoot-out and consequently saves the final penalty!
		
Click to expand...

During the shootout, my mates were talking about what happens if goalkeeper is sent off during shootout. I said exactly, that, just stick Messi in goal. That would be hilarious, especially if he saves one and they win.


----------



## Rlburnside (Dec 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Question: How do FIFA select the Golden Glove winner?

Martinez from Argentina won it. However, in world cup he conceded 2 against Saudi Arabia, 1 against Australia, 2 against Netherlands, 3 against France and 3 clean sheets (total of 8 goals, avg 1.14 per game)

England conceded 2 against Iran, 2 against France and 3 clean sheets (total of 4 goals, avg of 0.8 per game).

Morocco conceded 1 against Canada, 2 against France and 4 clean sheets (total of 2 goals, avg 0.5 per game) - I think they might have had a different keeper for 1 game, but still impressive.
		
Click to expand...

It’s quite simple really they just selected the award for a player in the final, nothing to do with who was best more about fifa thinking they will get a better presentation ceremony. 

Cringeworthy ceremony with Infantino taking so long to hand Messi the World Cup then dressing Messi up in a gown.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 19, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes that’s the problem they have in Ladies football.
Anything in the corners they can’t reach it.
		
Click to expand...

I saw a Newcastle game at St James a few weeks ago and all 3 goals were over the heads. Nothing special but if you shoot high it goes in. Really they need to reduce the goal size as at the moment that type of goal becomes a bit like kids football and it does the women a disservice. It wont happen, the expense and storage rule it out, but I think it is a shame.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			During the shootout, my mates were talking about what happens if goalkeeper is sent off during shootout. I said exactly, that, just stick Messi in goal. That would be hilarious, especially if he saves one and they win.
		
Click to expand...

And you think my idea is mad
At least then they could give Messi the golden gloves as well!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I saw a Newcastle game at St James a few weeks ago and all 3 goals were over the heads. Nothing special but if you shoot high it goes in. Really they need to reduce the goal size as at the moment that type of goal becomes a bit like kids football and it does the women a disservice. It wont happen, the expense and storage rule it out, but I think it is a shame.
		
Click to expand...

Problem there is if you get a girl whose 6’2” in the future it’s like a five a side goal to her.
Some of My daughters friends are tall so the girls are out there.
They just don’t play footy.
Scouts will be out for sure as it would stop a lot of very average goals as you say.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			And you think my idea is mad
At least then they could give Messi the golden gloves as well!
		
Click to expand...

Indeed. But, at least I know I was being tongue in cheek when I said it


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Indeed. But, at least I know I was being tongue in cheek when I said it 

Click to expand...

Yes but you still said it.
And as you know that will be held against you on here.
Not a lot of difference thinking out loud in the pub and in print here.
But some really take it as gospel!


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2022)

Rlburnside said:



			It’s quite simple really they just selected the award for a player in the final, nothing to do with who was best more about fifa thinking they will get a better presentation ceremony.

Cringeworthy ceremony with Infantino taking so long to hand Messi the World Cup* then dressing Messi up in a gown*.
		
Click to expand...

I woke up this morning, thinking did that actually happen, or was it just a weird dream.

They dressed him in that robe, as they wanted the defining moment of lifting that trophy to be about Qatar. They simply couldn't let Messi and Argentina have their moment. If England had won the world cup, would be interesting what the English population would feel. Would they have been happy, or would they want the photos to have Kane lifting the trophy, with his England shirt and Three Lions in full view?

Infantino looked like he wanted to be in the picture as long as possible, in his Ant and Dec clothing. Think it was Shearer who said nobody marked Messi that closely all night


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but you still said it.
And as you know that will be held against you on here.
Not a lot of difference thinking out loud in the pub and in print here.
But some really take it as gospel!

Click to expand...

I'm sure if you clarified that your comments on penalties were tongue in cheek, all would be forgiven / understood. I think the issue is that you said it, and then made numerous follow up posts defending your point of view. Those posts seem to clarify it wasn't tongue in cheek after all.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I'm sure if you clarified that your comments on penalties were tongue in cheek, all would be forgiven / understood. I think the issue is that you said it, and then made numerous follow up posts defending your point of view. Those posts seem to clarify it wasn't tongue in cheek after all.
		
Click to expand...

No it wasn’t.
I belive a goalscorer scores open play goals inc free kicks while the whole teams are involved.
A few decent penalties dosnt make you a top goalscorer.
That’s my view.
Many don’t agree that’s fine.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I woke up this morning, thinking did that actually happen, or was it just a weird dream.

They dressed him in that robe, as they wanted the defining moment of lifting that trophy to be about Qatar. They simply couldn't let Messi and Argentina have their moment. If England had won the world cup, would be interesting what the English population would feel. Would they have been happy, or would they want the photos to have Kane lifting the trophy, with his England shirt and Three Lions in full view?

Infantino looked like he wanted to be in the picture as long as possible, in his Ant and Dec clothing. Think it was Shearer who said nobody marked Messi that closely all night
		
Click to expand...

Should Messi have simply said NO.?
Was it planned in advance.?
Very strange.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			I woke up this morning, thinking did that actually happen, or was it just a weird dream.

They dressed him in that robe, as they wanted the defining moment of lifting that trophy to be about Qatar. They simply couldn't let Messi and Argentina have their moment. If England had won the world cup, would be interesting what the English population would feel. Would they have been happy, or would they want the photos to have Kane lifting the trophy, with his England shirt and Three Lions in full view?

Infantino looked like he wanted to be in the picture as long as possible, in his Ant and Dec clothing. Think it was Shearer who said nobody marked Messi that closely all night
		
Click to expand...

Isn't Messi something to do with Qatar? Like an ambassador or something?

Plus he is employed by psg who are owned by Qatar


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Should Messi have simply said NO.?
Was it planned in advance.?
Very strange.
		
Click to expand...

I would have liked it if Messi had taken it off immediately. But, maybe as pauljames says, he probably has links to Qatar that mean he was happy enough to do what he did, regardless of what Argentines felt.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			No it wasn’t.
I belive a goalscorer scores open play goals inc free kicks while the whole teams are involved.
A few decent penalties dosnt make you a top goalscorer.
That’s my view.
Many don’t agree that’s fine.
		
Click to expand...

But, a goal is a goal. Surely it is simply a matter of fact.

If there was an award for most clean sheets, they don't ignore penalties. If I put a bet down that a team will get a clean sheet, the betting company won't pay out if keeper concedes a penalty. They will pay out if my first goal scorer gets a penalty. If anyone put a bet on Di Maria to score the first goal last night, they cannot claim any winnings by saying Messi's penalty should not count.

A goal is a goal. If you are a top goal scorer, and really desire to win the Golden Boot, then being the teams nominated penalty taker would help. If you are not the nominated penalty taker, then maybe you are not really a truly great goal scorer anyway. If James Milner or a goalkeeper was preferred on penalty duty, maybe the striker does not deserve to be top of the goal scoring charts? 

Out of interest, how many of the worlds truly great goal scorers of all time did not take penalties?


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			But, a goal is a goal. Surely it is simply a matter of fact.

If there was an award for most clean sheets, they don't ignore penalties. If I put a bet down that a team will get a clean sheet, the betting company won't pay out if keeper concedes a penalty. They will pay out if my first goal scorer gets a penalty. If anyone put a bet on Di Maria to score the first goal last night, they cannot claim any winnings by saying Messi's penalty should not count.

A goal is a goal. If you are a top goal scorer, and really desire to win the Golden Boot, then being the teams nominated penalty taker would help. If you are not the nominated penalty taker, then maybe you are not really a truly great goal scorer anyway. If James Milner or a goalkeeper was preferred on penalty duty, maybe the striker does not deserve to be top of the goal scoring charts? 

Out of interest, how many of the worlds truly great goal scorers of all time did not take penalties?
		
Click to expand...

On that last point whilst Messi does his record with pens isn't the best, he misses a fair few 

However he has the guts to back himself and that pen in the shoot out was pure confidence


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 19, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Problem there is if you get a girl whose 6’2” in the future it’s like a five a side goal to her.
Some of My daughters friends are tall so the girls are out there.
They just don’t play footy.
Scouts will be out for sure as it would stop a lot of very average goals as you say.
		
Click to expand...

I get your point but I just don't think there are as many. Perhaps they need to go pinching women from the Olympic rowing teams?


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 19, 2022)

Usually I hate it when a big sporting event comes to a close...right now I'm the opposite. Some of it my general malaise with football (money/cheating etc) and some of it just the location and timing of this World Cup.


----------



## pendodave (Dec 19, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Problem there is if you get a girl whose 6’2” in the future it’s like a five a side goal to her.
Some of My daughters friends are tall so the girls are out there.
They just don’t play footy.
Scouts will be out for sure as it would stop a lot of very average goals as you say.
		
Click to expand...

I have no stats to back this up....(!) But I'd be willing to bet that when the dimensions of the goals were first formalised, the average male was quite a bit shorter than they are now, and probably not much different to the size of the women currently playing in goal.
It's not that women's goals need to be smaller, it's that men's need to be bigger.

Even a generation ago (think Jennings, Shilton, Clemence) 'keepers were several inches shorter with a significantly lesser wingspan.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 19, 2022)

pendodave said:



			I have no stats to back this up....(!) But I'd be willing to bet that when the dimensions of the goals were first formalised, the average male was quite a bit shorter than they are now, and probably not much different to the size of the women currently playing in goal.
It's not that women's goals need to be smaller, it's that men's need to be bigger.

Even a generation ago (think Jennings, Shilton, Clemence) 'keepers were several inches shorter with a significantly lesser wingspan.
		
Click to expand...

Come on, Pat Jennings had the wingspan of a golden eagle, or did it just seem that way 

I just googled those 3 incidentally. They were all 6ft dead on. Modest by today's standards but not short (Pickford is 6,1", Lloris is 6,2", average PL is 6,3")


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 19, 2022)

pendodave said:



			I have no stats to back this up....(!) But I'd be willing to bet that when the dimensions of the goals were first formalised, the average male was quite a bit shorter than they are now, and probably not much different to the size of the women currently playing in goal.
It's not that women's goals need to be smaller, it's that men's need to be bigger.

Even a generation ago (think Jennings, Shilton, Clemence) 'keepers were several inches shorter with a significantly lesser wingspan.
		
Click to expand...

Current goal dimensions are from the late 1800s. Men were quite a bit smaller then. 

I don’t know how true this is. I was told that they were designed around a player being 5’6”. Which seems a bit small but, at 5’6” you can jump and touch the crossbar.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Come on, Pat Jennings had the wingspan of a golden eagle, or did it just seem that way 

I just googled those 3 incidentally. They were all 6ft dead on. Modest by today's standards but not short (Pickford is 6,1", Lloris is 6,2", average PL is 6,3")
		
Click to expand...

Wow, that's quite amazing actually. I'd say 6'0 is definitely short for a keeper nowadays. Even a centre back you'd want them to be 6'0 minimum. I've always heard talk about Jennings being a big feller as well.


----------



## Neilds (Dec 19, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



*Current goal dimensions are from the late 1800s. Men were quite a bit smaller then.*

I don’t know how true this is. I was told that they were designed around a player being 5’6”. Which seems a bit small but, at 5’6” you can jump and touch the crossbar.
		
Click to expand...

You are forgetting that the tape crossbar sagged a bit so made it easier


----------



## fundy (Dec 19, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Wow, that's quite amazing actually. I'd say 6'0 is definitely short for a keeper nowadays. Even a centre back you'd want them to be 6'0 minimum. I've always heard talk about Jennings being a big feller as well.
		
Click to expand...


Pat is broad, and has massively over sized hands, but not that tall


----------



## pendodave (Dec 19, 2022)

Casual name drop, but Pat is a member at my club and I quite often interact with him.
He's smaller tham me (I'm a hair over 6ft) and when I've chatted with him about keeping, he's mentioned that he would never be considered nowadays because of his size.
Food was scarce in the 60s, we just didn't grow as big.
And Shilts was never 6ft. I'd give him 5.10 max.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2022)

pendodave said:



			Casual name drop, but Pat is a member at my club and I quite often interact with him.
He's smaller tham me (I'm a hair over 6ft) and when I've chatted with him about keeping, he's mentioned that he would never be considered nowadays because of his size.
Food was scarce in the 60s, we just didn't grow as big.
And Shilts was never 6ft. I'd give him 5.10 max.
		
Click to expand...

Is height only more important now because the ball is mental .. I mean it moves so quickly (because it's so light and designed to move around a lot in the air)


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			But, a goal is a goal. Surely it is simply a matter of fact.

If there was an award for most clean sheets, they don't ignore penalties. If I put a bet down that a team will get a clean sheet, the betting company won't pay out if keeper concedes a penalty. They will pay out if my first goal scorer gets a penalty. If anyone put a bet on Di Maria to score the first goal last night, they cannot claim any winnings by saying Messi's penalty should not count.

A goal is a goal. If you are a top goal scorer, and really desire to win the Golden Boot, then being the teams nominated penalty taker would help. If you are not the nominated penalty taker, then maybe you are not really a truly great goal scorer anyway. If James Milner or a goalkeeper was preferred on penalty duty, maybe the striker does not deserve to be top of the goal scoring charts?

Out of interest, how many of the worlds truly great goal scorers of all time did not take penalties?
		
Click to expand...

Yes you are entitled to your view.
But it’s just the golden boot I was talking about. Nothing else.
It’s just the way I see it.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Wow, that's quite amazing actually. I'd say 6'0 is definitely short for a keeper nowadays. Even a centre back you'd want them to be 6'0 minimum. I've always heard talk about Jennings being a big feller as well.
		
Click to expand...

I remember he had massive hands.
Keepers played without gloves as well then.
But he did look massive.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Is height only more important now because the ball is mental .. I mean it moves so quickly (because it's so light and designed to move around a lot in the air)
		
Click to expand...

Bit like the Messi Best debate.
Keepers now are lightning quick they need to be as in the old days players could not hit the ball at speeds they do now.
That’s before it moves in the air,
Must be a nightmare as that can make you look very silly.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Bit like the Messi Best debate.
Keepers now are lightning quick they need to be as in the old days players could not hit the ball at speeds they do now.
That’s before it moves in the air,
Must be a nightmare as that can make you look very silly.
		
Click to expand...

What world cup / euros was it where the ball was complained about by all the keepers? As it was just designed to go all over the shop


----------



## Alan Clifford (Dec 19, 2022)

Who won?  Meghan or Harry?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

pendodave said:



			I have no stats to back this up....(!) But I'd be willing to bet that when the dimensions of the goals were first formalised, the average male was quite a bit shorter than they are now, and probably not much different to the size of the women currently playing in goal.
It's not that women's goals need to be smaller, it's that men's need to be bigger.

Even a generation ago (think Jennings, Shilton, Clemence) 'keepers were several inches shorter with a significantly lesser wingspan.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I agree with this .
But I think keepers now save shots that older keepers could not get to.
Might be the height but more the reactions and speed.
I remember meeting David James he was massive but quite slim it’s an aura thin I think he just looked huge.


----------



## BiMGuy (Dec 19, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			What world cup / euros was it where the ball was complained about by all the keepers? As it was just designed to go all over the shop
		
Click to expand...

2010 I think with the Adidas Jabulani.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			What world cup / euros was it where the ball was complained about by all the keepers? As it was just designed to go all over the shop
		
Click to expand...

All of them I think. Especially at altitude.
They invent a new ball for the WC.
Did see a lot burst in this WC.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			What world cup / euros was it where the ball was complained about by all the keepers? As it was just designed to go all over the shop
		
Click to expand...

https://www.whoateallthepies.tv/lis...the-adidas-jabulani-world-cup-match-ball.html


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			2010 I think with the Adidas Jabulani.
		
Click to expand...

Just found it yeah. Was well panned


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Alan Clifford said:



			Who won?  Meghan or Harry?
		
Click to expand...

Clarkson  has stepped in .
With his big size 10s.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 19, 2022)

pendodave said:



			Casual name drop, but Pat is a member at my club and I quite often interact with him.
He's smaller tham me (I'm a hair over 6ft) and when I've chatted with him about keeping, he's mentioned that he would never be considered nowadays because of his size.
Food was scarce in the 60s, we just didn't grow as big.
And Shilts was never 6ft. I'd give him 5.10 max.
		
Click to expand...

Always comes across as an absolute gent and a colossus as a keeper. One of the very best of his era, all without gloves as well.

I guess he was big amongst the other players of that time and if they were equivalent, in terms of growth and build, then it is just how he looked.

I googled the heights, they could quite easily be incorrect. The one thing you could say, Shilton was massively hunched in his posture. Perhaps if he stood straight up for the tape he might actually be 6ft? He could also just as easily be 5'10 as you say.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Come on, Pat Jennings had the wingspan of a golden eagle, or did it just seem that way 

I just googled those 3 incidentally. They were all 6ft dead on. Modest by today's standards but not short (Pickford is 6,1", Lloris is 6,2", average PL is 6,3")
		
Click to expand...

I think they don’t look that tall with the size of modern players


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 19, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			2010 I think with the Adidas Jabulani.
		
Click to expand...

You are correct.

I just looked at it on Wiki, and under the main heading of "Reception", there are the subtitles:

Critisicm
Response from Addidas
Response from FIFA
NASA Study

If NASA felt the need to get involved, it must have been bad.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 19, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think they don’t look that tall with the size of modern players
		
Click to expand...

Previous keepers or the current ones?

Many positions now have giants in them, not every player of course, but there is height in every team now. A bit like the discussion of comparing players from different eras in terms of skill, pace etc, we probably can't compare in term of height either on the whole. Food availability from birth, diet etc, means you are not comparing like with like (rugby is the biggest example of this)

I do also think that tv makes someone look much bigger. I've stood next to many footballers in different situations and none of them look the size that they do on tv. Shearer is one that stands out up here, or doesn't stand out as it happens. Same with golfers when you see them live at a tournament. Scottie Scheffler looked much slighter than I expected at the Scottish Open.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			You are correct.

I just looked at it on Wiki, and under the main heading of "Reception", there are the subtitles:

Critisicm
Response from Addidas
Response from FIFA
NASA Study

If NASA felt the need to get involved, it must have been bad.
		
Click to expand...

I will have to get NASA onto my golf shots .
Some of them defy physics.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Previous keepers or the current ones?

Many positions now have giants in them, not every player of course, but there is height in every team now. A bit like the discussion of comparing players from different eras in terms of skill, pace etc, we probably can't compare in term of height either on the whole. Food availability from birth, diet etc, means you are not comparing like with like (rugby is the biggest example of this)

I do also think that tv makes someone look much bigger. I've stood next to many footballers in different situations and none of them look the size that they do on tv. Shearer is one that stands out up here, or doesn't stand out as it happens. Same with golfers when you see them live at a tournament. Scottie Scheffler looked much slighter than I expected at the Scottish Open.
		
Click to expand...

Yes but years ago if you were tall you were a CF or CB .
The average height now is 6’ ish that’s what I meant the CB and CF are not picked for height any more they need to be mobile and good on the ball.
If they are 6’3” as well then that’s a bonus.


----------



## larmen (Dec 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I saw a Newcastle game at St James a few weeks ago and all 3 goals were over the heads. Nothing special but if you shoot high it goes in. Really they need to reduce the goal size as at the moment that type of goal becomes a bit like kids football and it does the women a disservice. It wont happen, the expense and storage rule it out, but I think it is a shame.
		
Click to expand...

This is just opening a can of worms. "it's not the same game" will be the most common reply. That's what Shaqille O'Neill (or Charles Barkley?) got to hear a thousand times when they recommended to lower the hoop at basketball. But that ladies already play with a smaller ball didn't occur to any of the critics.

I think volleyball is the only team sport where the 'playing field' is different, the net is lower. But nobody takes offence to that.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 19, 2022)

Did Aguero do a Terry? 😬😂


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 19, 2022)

larmen said:



			This is just opening a can of worms. "it's not the same game" will be the most common reply. That's what Shaqille O'Neill (or Charles Barkley?) got to hear a thousand times when they recommended to lower the hoop at basketball. But that ladies already play with a smaller ball didn't occur to any of the critics.

I think volleyball is the only team sport where the 'playing field' is different, the net is lower. But nobody takes offence to that.
		
Click to expand...

In cricket the wicket length is the same but the boundary ropes are brought in significantly. It's just logical but it also helps that it is a relatively simple and easy thing to do.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



View attachment 45653

Did Aguero do a Terry? 😬😂
		
Click to expand...

Big difference for me, Terry was suspended . Aguero would be there if he hadn't had his career struck tragically short


----------



## larmen (Dec 19, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Big difference for me, Terry was suspended . Aguero would be there if he hadn't had his career struck tragically short
		
Click to expand...

Terry was part of the squad and qualified to get a medal.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2022)

larmen said:



			Terry was part of the squad and qualified to get a medal.
		
Click to expand...

Very true, however it's a bit different, you don't get the squad in kits for the final 

Sergio would have been in that squad. He was robbed of the end of his career and is still very much part the "team" so to speak. He was messis room mate for the week 

It's a nice tribute as opposed to the limelight stealing before


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 19, 2022)

I don’t mind the Aguero thing.
And let’s be honest the only reason Terry got so much stick is because people don’t like him,that’s fine.
If a club legend had done the same for a team you support I’m sure you’d be ok with it 🤷‍♂️


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 19, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			I don’t mind the Aguero thing.
And let’s be honest the only reason Terry got so much stick is because people don’t like him,that’s fine.
If a club legend had done the same for a team you support I’m sure you’d be ok with it 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

The massive diff is look at Sergio he just shoved his shirt on 

Terry had a full kit including boots ..


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 19, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			The massive diff is look at Sergio he just shoved his shirt on

*Terry had a full kit including boots* ..
		
Click to expand...

That’s how pros do it mate.
All in 😂😂


----------



## sunshine (Dec 19, 2022)

Piece said:



			You can develop physicality, you can build strength,  you can improve fitness, you can improve diet. You can't improve talent.
		
Click to expand...

What? Of course you can improve talent. Every top sports star got there by improving their natural talent.


----------



## sunshine (Dec 19, 2022)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Are you telling me that defenders of the ilk of the present England back four are better than defenders in 70s and 80s? Moores, Keane, Charles, Edwards, Hunter. Etc
		
Click to expand...

Yes.

I agree with you that endless passing across the back four can be really boring.


----------



## sunshine (Dec 19, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You can call it tippy tappy if you want but that just shows a lack of understanding of why teams want to protect and keep the ball
		
Click to expand...

I think that just somes up the debate.


----------



## Slime (Dec 19, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			I don’t mind the Aguero thing.
And let’s be honest the only reason Terry got so much stick is because people don’t like him,that’s fine.
If a club legend had done the same for a team you support I’m sure you’d be ok with it 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Keane and Scholes didn't come on the pitch in full kit after the '99 Champs League final, they were team players.


----------



## sunshine (Dec 19, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I saw a Newcastle game at St James a few weeks ago and all 3 goals were over the heads. Nothing special but if you shoot high it goes in. Really they need to reduce the goal size as at the moment that type of goal becomes a bit like kids football and it does the women a disservice. It wont happen, the expense and storage rule it out, but I think it is a shame.
		
Click to expand...

I'm guessing this is what the men's game was like over a hundred years ago when the dimensions of the goals were defined.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 19, 2022)

Slime said:



			Keane and Scholes didn't come on the pitch in full kit after the '99 Champs League final, they were team players.
		
Click to expand...

And if they did?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			I don’t mind the Aguero thing.
And let’s be honest the only reason Terry got so much stick is because people don’t like him,that’s fine.
If a club legend had done the same for a team you support I’m sure you’d be ok with it 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Yes no problem for me 
Half the crowd has the shirts on.
Think the boots might be a bit much.


----------



## Rlburnside (Dec 19, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Wow, that's quite amazing actually. I'd say 6'0 is definitely short for a keeper nowadays. Even a centre back you'd want them to be 6'0 minimum. I've always heard talk about Jennings being a big feller as well.
		
Click to expand...

I’ve met Jennings a few times and saw him play a lot, it’s surprising how small he was for a goalie. 

If you want a laugh have a look at his penalty saves at Anfield first was by Keagan second one Tommy Smith wouldn’t let him take it and took it himself and Jennings saved that as well😂


----------



## sunshine (Dec 19, 2022)

pendodave said:



			I have no stats to back this up....(!) But I'd be willing to bet that when the dimensions of the goals were first formalised, the average male was quite a bit shorter than they are now, and probably not much different to the size of the women currently playing in goal.
It's not that women's goals need to be smaller, it's that men's need to be bigger.

Even a generation ago (think Jennings, Shilton, Clemence) 'keepers were several inches shorter with a significantly lesser wingspan.
		
Click to expand...

Did some research for you:

The dimensions of the goal were defined in 1863. The crossbar is 8 foot / 2.44m.

In 1871, the average British male height was 167cm, compared to 178cm today (Men's average height 'up 11cm since 1870s' - BBC News ). Today the average female height in the UK is 164cm, so not much difference from the average male height in 1863.

I'm sure women's football will evolve and we'll see tall keepers becoming more common as the popularity / quality / rewards increase.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

sunshine said:



			Did some research for you:

The dimensions of the goal were defined in 1863. The crossbar is 8 foot / 2.44m.

In 1871, the average British male height was 167cm, compared to 178cm today (Men's average height 'up 11cm since 1870s' - BBC News ). Today the average female height in the UK is 164cm, so not much difference from the average male height in 1863.

I'm sure women's football will evolve and we'll see tall keepers becoming more common as the popularity / quality / rewards increase.
		
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure cm were not used in the 1870s 
Had to get my tape measure out.


----------



## Alan Clifford (Dec 19, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			I am pretty sure cm were not used in the 1870s 
Had to get my tape measure out.
		
Click to expand...

The metre convention was signed by 17 nations in 1875.  Stangely, not by the UK but was signed by the USA.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Alan Clifford said:



			The metre convention was signed by 17 nations in 1875.  Stangely, not by the UK but was signed by the USA.
		
Click to expand...

That’s funny as we made copper tubing for the USA and it was still Imperial up to 10 yrs ago and still is as far as I know.
Played havoc with our measurements as the tooling was a pain .


----------



## Slime (Dec 19, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			And if they did?
		
Click to expand...

I'd like to think I'd have been embarrassed for them.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2022)

I heard today England won the Fair Play trophy with just 1 yellow card😁😁


----------



## larmen (Dec 19, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I heard today England won the Fair Play trophy with just 1 yellow card😁😁
		
Click to expand...

Got lucky they didn’t get that record referee ;-)


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2022)

larmen said:



			Got lucky they didn’t get that record referee ;-)
		
Click to expand...

Finally, some silverware though. It all counts😉


----------



## SteveW86 (Dec 19, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			Finally, some silverware though. It all counts😉
		
Click to expand...

Kane will claim it


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 19, 2022)

pauljames87 said:



			Very true, however it's a bit different, you don't get the squad in kits for the final

Sergio would have been in that squad. He was robbed of the end of his career and is still very much part the "team" so to speak. He was messis room mate for the week

It's a nice tribute as opposed to the limelight stealing before
		
Click to expand...

I believe he was part of the coaching staff as well. Not sure how much of an integral part or just a token role because they wanted him around, but still.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I heard today England won the Fair Play trophy with just 1 yellow card😁😁
		
Click to expand...

Bloody ruffian who was it?


----------



## Imurg (Dec 20, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I heard today England won the Fair Play trophy with just 1 yellow card😁😁
		
Click to expand...

It's come home...


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Bloody ruffian who was it? 

Click to expand...

Harry Maguire against France. Hooligan 😆


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 20, 2022)

SteveW86 said:



			Kane will claim it
		
Click to expand...

Nah am sure Ronaldo will 😉😁


----------



## larmen (Dec 20, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Harry Maguire against France. Hooligan 😆
		
Click to expand...

The real hooligans live over in Wales. More clean red cards than any other nation, and they didn’t even make it out of the group stage. Basically just there to beat the s..t out of others.

Basically, how can a tournament have a million yellows but only one red? Is that a VAR consequence? Fewer breaks that need to be stopped? Players playing less dirty because they will get a review?


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 20, 2022)

larmen said:



			The real hooligans live over in Wales. More clean red cards than any other nation, and they didn’t even make it out of the group stage. Basically just there to beat the s..t out of others.

Basically, how can a tournament have a million yellows but only one red? Is that a VAR consequence? Fewer breaks that need to be stopped? Players playing less dirty because they will get a review?
		
Click to expand...

Were there loads of yellows. Apart from one mental game with a record number of yellows, it struck me that referees were reluctant to dish out yellows.

It seems like referees have been asked to play on more, and give out less yellows for "trivial" incidents. Maybe to ensure less suspensions. Also, perhaps players are more careful in a tackle, as they know VAR will be able to review a high challenge. Before, they might hope to get away with it.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2022)

larmen said:



			The real hooligans live over in Wales. More clean red cards than any other nation, and they didn’t even make it out of the group stage. Basically just there to beat the s..t out of others.

Basically, how can a tournament have a million yellows but only one red? Is that a VAR consequence? Fewer breaks that need to be stopped? Players playing less dirty because they will get a review?
		
Click to expand...

I'm with @Swango1980 on this. I think the refs were told to avoid yellows where possible for pull backs, cynical fouls, dives etc. Avoiding yellows means less chance of two yellows etc. I don't think I saw many straight red situations but there were definitely cases where players should have gone due to two yellows, what should have been, in a game.

Had it been the PL there would have been way more of both colours. I think this allowed too many players to get away with stuff, it was a backward step.


----------



## fundy (Dec 20, 2022)

larmen said:



			The real hooligans live over in Wales. More clean red cards than any other nation, and they didn’t even make it out of the group stage. Basically just there to beat the s..t out of others.

Basically, how can a tournament have a million yellows *but only one red*? Is that a VAR consequence? Fewer breaks that need to be stopped? Players playing less dirty because they will get a review?
		
Click to expand...

It didnt Morocco got one in the KO stages


----------



## GreiginFife (Dec 20, 2022)

fundy said:



			It didnt Morocco got one in the KO stages
		
Click to expand...

Aboubakar also got one for Cameroon. That was a second yellow for celebrating though.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 20, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm with @Swango1980 on this. I think the refs were told to avoid yellows where possible for pull backs, cynical fouls, dives etc. Avoiding yellows means less chance of two yellows etc. *I don't think I saw many straight red situations* but there were definitely cases where players should have gone due to two yellows, what should have been, in a game.

Had it been the PL there would have been way more of both colours. I think this allowed too many players to get away with stuff, it was a backward step.
		
Click to expand...

Me neither. One that springs to mind is when the Argentine player smashed ball into Netherlands dugout. Had he smashed the ball like that into the Netherlands fans (i.e. with intent, rather than just randomly hoofing it away), I assume it would be a red?


----------



## GreiginFife (Dec 20, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Me neither. One that springs to mind is when the Argentine player smashed ball into Netherlands dugout. Had he smashed the ball like that into the Netherlands fans (i.e. with intent, rather than just randomly hoofing it away), I assume it would be a red?
		
Click to expand...

Parades. Should have gone for scything down Ake (yellow) and then booting the ball in to the dugout (definite second yellow). Ref bottled it after the melee that followed, and there could have been a couple of reds in that alone.


----------



## sunshine (Dec 20, 2022)

Some thoughts on the global sports washing project World Cup now it's over, focusing on the tournament and not the build up (migrant workers, persecuted minorities, corruption etc)

Positives:
- An epic final
- A fairly open tournament, show-casing high skill levels from many teams, and the cream rose to the top
- A few upsets to keep us entertained (Saudi v Arg ), but generally the dross got what they deserved
- Lack of hooliganism
- Good progression from the England squad, even though on paper QF appears a step backwards

Negatives:
- Nothing is being done about play acting
- Inconsistency of VAR. I expect individual referees to interpret incidents differently on the pitch but no excuse for VAR
- The lack of atmosphere at many matches. Some countries like Morocco had a good set of fans, but most countries brought far fewer fans than usual. England v France was dead. TV companies played some tricks to improve the sound, but I can tell the difference between 5,000 cheering and 50,000.
- The general lack of world cup fever. No festival of football where the host country becomes a massive football party. No passion and no soul. At home there wasn't the usual level of excitement either, I watched all the big games at home instead of going out.
- The manipulation of the tournament to benefit the interests of the hosts. The endless publicity stunts e.g. Messi being forced to wear a robe to raise the trophy
- Sycophantic comments from paid ambassadors and officials like Infantino telling us how great everything is when it blatantly isn't


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 20, 2022)

Well, we had one of the best ever World Cup finals on Sunday, and tonight we get back to even greater things, the Caraboa Cup.

I wonder if Alexis Mac Allister will make the trip away to Charlton tomorrow night?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 20, 2022)

sunshine said:



			Some thoughts on the global sports washing project World Cup now it's over, focusing on the tournament and not the build up (migrant workers, persecuted minorities, corruption etc)

Positives:
- An epic final
- A fairly open tournament, show-casing high skill levels from many teams, and the cream rose to the top
- A few upsets to keep us entertained (Saudi v Arg ), but generally the dross got what they deserved
- Lack of hooliganism
- Good progression from the England squad, even though on paper QF appears a step backwards

Negatives:
- Nothing is being done about play acting
- Inconsistency of VAR. I expect individual referees to interpret incidents differently on the pitch but no excuse for VAR
- The lack of atmosphere at many matches. Some countries like Morocco had a good set of fans, but most countries brought far fewer fans than usual. England v France was dead. TV companies played some tricks to improve the sound, but I can tell the difference between 5,000 cheering and 50,000.
- The general lack of world cup fever. No festival of football where the host country becomes a massive football party. No passion and no soul. At home there wasn't the usual level of excitement either, I watched all the big games at home instead of going out.
- The manipulation of the tournament to benefit the interests of the hosts. The endless publicity stunts e.g. Messi being forced to wear a robe to raise the trophy
- Sycophantic comments from paid ambassadors and officials like Infantino telling us how great everything is when it blatantly isn't
		
Click to expand...

Yes agree.
The biggest thing that struck me was the lack of interest back home.
I never saw any England flags out of cars , windows etc.
Even the shops didn’t display much stuff.
Maybe they didn’t want to show they were supporting the Qutaries.
Very flat.


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 20, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes agree.
The biggest thing that struck me was the lack of interest back home.
I never saw any England flags out of cars , windows etc.
Even the shops didn’t display much stuff.
Maybe they didn’t want to show they were supporting the Qutaries.
Very flat.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe that was a reason for some. But not overly important I don't think.. People who put flags up on cars are usually big football fans, and patriotic. I imagine most of them would still have been right behind England, watching every game, regardless of where the football was held.

I think the bigger reason for that is simply the time of year. We went straight from Premier League football into a World Cup, at a time of year the weather is rubbish. People may not be really feeling the enthusiasm they normally do. Every other major championship, there have been a few weeks to kill between club football and the major national championship. People have been starved of football for a bit, and there has been time to build up peoples enthusiasm. And, the weather is usually lovely, so fans are organising BBQs, beer gardens and night outs to watch the big games. Lots more positivity, and more people getting out and about, displaying those flags wherever they go.

Ohh, and the whole cost of living crisis, and striking workers, has probably put a dampener on people's moods.


----------



## HeftyHacker (Dec 20, 2022)

clubchamp98 said:



			Problem there is if you get a girl whose 6’2” in the future it’s like a five a side goal to her.



Some of My daughters friends are tall so the girls are out there.



They just don’t play footy.



Scouts will be out for sure as it would stop a lot of very average goals as you say.
		
Click to expand...

Why don't they just scout high level basketball and netball players? Got the height and reach as well as good hand eye.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 20, 2022)

HeftyHacker said:



			Why don't they just scout high level basketball and netball players? Got the height and reach as well as good hand eye.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure the other sports would be happy .


----------



## sunshine (Dec 20, 2022)

HeftyHacker said:



			Why don't they just scout high level basketball and netball players? Got the height and reach as well as good hand eye.
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure this will happen eventually. We've seen similar with lots of sports. Ultimately, can a woman earn more playing football, basketball or netball?


----------



## srixon 1 (Dec 20, 2022)

Swango1980 said:



			Well, we had one of the best ever World Cup finals on Sunday, and tonight we get back to even greater things, the Caraboa Cup.

I wonder if Alexis Mac Allister will make the trip away to Charlton tomorrow night?
		
Click to expand...

He’ll still be mullered in a bar somewhere in Argentina I would imagine.


----------

