# 2 faced chippers



## Huwey12 (Feb 14, 2015)

I know these clubs are illegal in competition play, a small club where I sometimes play a few use them in comps. When I asked why they were using them the answer was that they count as 2 clubs, which is wrong, but I didn't rock the boat.
They are deadly for accuracy from the fringe . What I was wondering if I was to buy one as they are quite cheap and put something on the face I don't use, would that make it a legal club. 
Any thoughts
,


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## BTatHome (Feb 14, 2015)

No, it wouldn't make it legal.

Why would you buy a 2 faced chipper, rather than a single faced one anyway?


The legality of others playing with the clubs and you keeping quite about it, is a whole other discussion!!!


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## rosecott (Feb 14, 2015)

I've always been a bit troubled by phrases such as "illegal in competition". If it's illegal, it's illegal - end of story. The argument that it's different if you are playing friendly games, roll-ups etc. doesn't sit easily with me. If I'm playing you for a quid, my expectation would be that you played by all the rules of the game - including those relating to equipment.


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## Huwey12 (Feb 14, 2015)

BTatHome said:



			No, it wouldn't make it legal.

Why would you buy a 2 faced chipper, rather than a single faced one anyway?


The legality of others playing with the clubs and you keeping quite about it, is a whole other discussion!!!
		
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Just the cost to try it (dunlop Â£8).Yes I know I should have blown the whistle so that makes me as guilty as they are, but it's only a has a 60 membership and about 20 -25 play in comps, so I wouldnt have been welcome back


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## DanFST (Feb 14, 2015)

rosecott said:



			I've always been a bit troubled by phrases such as "illegal in competition". If it's illegal, it's illegal - end of story. The argument that it's different if you are playing friendly games, roll-ups etc. doesn't sit easily with me. If I'm playing you for a quid, my expectation would be that you played by all the rules of the game - including those relating to equipment.
		
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Or you could not be a Richard,  it hardly sounds a friendly round. A simple request to only use one side of the face would suffice.


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## rosecott (Feb 14, 2015)

DanFST said:



			Or you could not be a Richard,  it hardly sounds a friendly round. A simple request to only use one side of the face would suffice.
		
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Whatever you may think of me, the club in question is specifically declared illegal in the rules. By your analogy it would be OK if someone was using:

Illegal driver (over 4 feet long, over 460cc, etc)- OK but don't hit it very hard.

Illegal wedge (the ones that shred balls) - OK but don't get it too close.


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## DanFST (Feb 14, 2015)

rosecott said:



			Whatever you may think of me, the club in question is specifically declared illegal in the rules. By your analogy it would be OK if someone was using:

Illegal driver (over 4 feet long, over 460cc, etc)- OK but don't hit it very hard.

Illegal wedge (the ones that shred balls) - OK but don't get it too close.
		
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No, You can't objectively measure and ensure someone meets the criteria you set, the examples you've given are in no way similar. 

the thing that is illegal about the 2 sided face, is it having two faces. You can objectively and completely remove one of the faces simply by not using it. making it comparable to a legal club. 

You're off 18, the game should be fun. Some people just take it too seriously.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2015)

It's an illegal club - saying "I wont use the other side" doesn't stop it being an illegal club - the rule is quite simple


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## Huwey12 (Feb 14, 2015)

DanFST said:



			No, You can't objectively measure and ensure someone meets the criteria you set, the examples you've given are in no way similar. 

the thing that is illegal about the 2 sided face, is it having two faces. You can objectively and completely remove one of the faces simply by not using it. making it comparable to a legal club. 

You're off 18, the game should be fun. Some people just take it too seriously.
		
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Sorry to start a war chaps. The course in question is a 9 hole double tee and a dirt cheap membership fee with the average handicap about 20. It's on a school playing field with goal posts all around the field
Hardly a place to start laying down the law
My post was originally to see if I could make one face unusable to make it legal ie solder or braze a piece of metal to it


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## DanFST (Feb 14, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's an illegal club - saying "I wont use the other side" doesn't stop it being an illegal club - the rule is quite simple
		
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Well done Phil, you've managed to restate the obvious.


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## John_R7 (Feb 14, 2015)

Huwey12 said:



			Just the cost to try it (dunlop Â£8).Yes I know I should have blown the whistle so that makes me as guilty as they are, but it's only a has a 60 membership and about 20 -25 play in comps, so I wouldnt have been welcome back
		
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You can buy a Dunlop single sided chipper for Â£7 - everyone's happy :thup:
http://www.sportsdirect.com/dunlop-tour-chipper-871029?colcode=87102990


And then explain / show the offenders.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2015)

I'm not sure what difference what sort of place the golf club is - the club is illegal , you can't cover the face to make it legal and you need make your competition organisers aware that people are using these clubs.


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## rosecott (Feb 14, 2015)

DanFST said:



			You're off 18, the game should be fun. Some people just take it too seriously.
		
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When I play, it's always fun - I wouldn't do it otherwise. Ask anyone who has played with me (except, perhaps, Smiffy).


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2015)

DanFST said:



			Well done Phil, you've managed to restate the obvious.
		
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Well it's clear its not obvious to you after insulting someone because they would prefer to play within the rules.


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## DanFST (Feb 14, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well it's clear its not obvious to you after insulting someone because they would prefer to play within the rules.
		
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It is obvious to me, if you had read my post you would see I even mentioned it was illegal. As for "insulting" i'm sure Rosecott is fine, and can speak up for himself.

I have no problems if people want to play by all the rules in a friendly hit about. I won't play with them, as I don't find it relaxing. 

Having a chipper with 2 faces and only using one side of it, will not effect on the outcome of the match. People give out advice/yardages, use DMD's with Slope/weather info and drop and work out penalties incorrectly. These are "fine" to most people in friendly games, and have way more effect on the outcome.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2015)

DanFST said:



			It is obvious to me, if you had read my post you would see I even mentioned it was illegal. As for "insulting" i'm sure Rosecott is fine, and can speak up for himself.

I have no problems if people want to play by all the rules in a friendly hit about. I won't play with them, as I don't find it relaxing. 

Having a chipper with 2 faces and only using one side of it, will not effect on the outcome of the match. *People give out advice/yardages, use DMD's with Slope/weather info and drop and work out penalties incorrectly. These are "fine" to most people in friendly games, and have way more effect on the outcome.*

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Giving yardage is not illegal 

I dont know anyone who uses a DMD with slope 

Everyone I know plays drops and penalties correctly 

Everyone I play with in friendlies plays within the rules and still very relaxing 

Mights as well all the rules to be broken then if that's the only way you relax - how do you play in a comp with all those pesky rules getting in the way of your enjoyment. If you can't relax because someone wants to play within the rules then I would be wary of playing in a comp - habits can easily grow.


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## Huwey12 (Feb 14, 2015)

John_R7 said:



			You can buy a Dunlop single sided chipper for Â£7 - everyone's happy :thup:
http://www.sportsdirect.com/dunlop-tour-chipper-871029?colcode=87102990


And then explain / show the offenders.
		
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Shame it's right handed as I'm a lefty, always my problem
i haven't got the heart to call a 66 year old pensioner a cheat who has mobility problems and a heart condition


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2015)

Huwey12 said:



			Shame it's right handed as I'm a lefty, always my problem
i haven't got the heart to call a 66 year old pensioner a cheat who has mobility problems and a heart condition
		
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If it's in official Congu recognised comps with Handicaps on the line then it's your responsibility to make the correct people aware of the rule break - regardless of the golfer - harsh as it may seem but ignore it and I believe you also could be DQ'ed


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## DanFST (Feb 14, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Giving yardage is not illegal 

I dont know anyone who uses a DMD with slope 

Everyone I know plays drops and penalties correctly 

Everyone I play with in friendlies plays within the rules and still very relaxing 

Mights as well all the rules to be broken then if that's the only way you relax - how do you play in a comp with all those pesky rules getting in the way of your enjoyment. If you can't relax because someone wants to play within the rules then I would be wary of playing in a comp - habits can easily grow.
		
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You've never asked what club someone is hitting? What shot they are planning to hit?

If your playing with a friend and he's doing something blatantly obvious which is making him play badly, you've never mentioned it? 

If someone's come to play at your track. You've never told them where the safe miss is? or any other advice that might help your friend that doesn't play on it regularly? Or argued about which way the wind is going? 

Pro's on tour make mistakes with penalties and drops, I sincerely doubt "everyone you know plays drops and penalties correctly". That's not even mentioning the guy on the 18th who drives it into the tree's, and someone utters "i saw it down, don't worry". Everyone you know has always walked the long walk back to the tee when the ball is inevitably lost? 

If all the above is correct then fair play, I just don't think i'd like playing with you. 

People use DMD's with slope etc, what's your view on them? 

If theres no money on it, I just want everyone in my group to be playing well and enjoying themselves. I don't play many comps, I do enjoy the test, and have no problem following the rules. But then you go into them with a totally different goal and mindset.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2015)

And all of that is not comparable to using an illegal club. 

I go into every round with the mindset of enjoyment but wouldn't allow someone to use an illegals club regardless of the situation of the game 

Just as I wouldn't allow them to use illegal balls or wedges or drivers 

People will have the correct drops 

People can still enjoy the game and play within the rules and use the correct equipment.


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## DanFST (Feb 14, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And all of that is not comparable to using an illegal club.
		
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I agree, they have much more effect on the score than using one side of a 2 sided chipper. If your friend said to you he was thinking of getting one, so he bought a double faced cheap dunlop one to use for a round or two before he splashed out for a proper one. Would you refuse to let him?
 If he is using one side only, what benefit does that have over an exspensive one with only 1 face that is legal? when is a face no longer defined as a face? 

It's not something I want to see, as to some people the temptation to cheat would be too much, as upsetting as that sounds! I've said all I need to say on it, but my point is. people break the rules in fun rounds all the time, as mentioned in my previous post. But as soon as a double faced chipper is mentioned people show massive resistance. Even if the club in question can be easily used in a way that would make it legal. 

End of the day it's a friendly game, as long as all players are aware of the rules before the start, all is fine by me! I know some people purists won't like it. But to them I say go play a round with loads of silly rules, it's a hell of a laugh!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2015)

I would tell him not to buy one as its an illegal club and wouldn't be allowed to use it in the comps or our swindles.


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## PhilTheFragger (Feb 14, 2015)

Ok going round in circles and repeating yourselves.
It wouldn't personally worry me if someone was using an illegal or non conforming club in a friendly bounce game, with mates, although I would point it out to him if I was aware of it.
but absolutely not in a comp or if any cash is at stake, 

Why buy a chipper when you have a perfectly good 7 or 8 iron to hand, use it with a putting action from just off the green, job done


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## Rooter (Feb 15, 2015)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Why buy a chipper when you have a perfectly good 7 or 8 iron to hand, use it with a putting action from just off the green, job done 

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Is the right answer! Or even your hybrid!


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## guest100718 (Feb 15, 2015)

Yes the words why by a chipper had it covered.


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## chrisd (Feb 15, 2015)

T



DanFST said:



			It is obvious to me, if you had read my post you would see I even mentioned it was illegal. As for "insulting" i'm sure Rosecott is fine, and can speak up for himself.

I have no problems if people want to play by all the rules in a friendly hit about. I won't play with them, as I don't find it relaxing. 

Having a chipper with 2 faces and only using one side of it, will not effect on the outcome of the match. People give out advice/yardages, use DMD's with Slope/weather info and drop and work out penalties incorrectly. These are "fine" to most people in friendly games, and have way more effect on the outcome.
		
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So, where would you say " Hey that's against the rules and a penalty" In a game? 

Also, I play loads of games with loads of different people and I've never actually seen a DMD with a slope reader on it, how many have you seen?


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## PhilTheFragger (Feb 15, 2015)

Ive never seen a slope DMD either, no good in comps so a useless item to buy in my opinion.


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## Huwey12 (Feb 15, 2015)

chrisd said:



			T

So, where would you say " Hey that's against the rules and a penalty" In a game? 

Also, I play loads of games with loads of different people and I've never actually seen a DMD with a slope reader on it, how many have you seen?
		
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I think Dan is bis being ganged up on here, in my mind he is simply quoting the common rule breakers that happen every weekend either with or without a players knowledge
How many can honestly say they have called a penalty on thamselves ie ball has moved while addressing in the rough, quite common or while clearing debris around the ball which then moves
Is anyone playing with a slightly damaged club, if you are you can be D/Q'd but only if you call it to the comp officials
Dan knows the 2 faced chipper is illegal in comps, he's not arguing with the fact, only stating this isn't the only misdemeanour that happens


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## Slab (Feb 16, 2015)

Going back to the Op, yeah finding a left handed chipper will be tough and double sided may be your only option for your social games but wonâ€™t help you for comps as you know (might be worse if you begin to rely on it for social golf then youâ€™ll miss it more in a comp)

Yes there are other clubs in the bag that can be used for chipping but thatâ€™s not what they were designed for so more practice would be required to get the technique right but might be ultimately more rewarding though (although through the learning process there will no doubt be duffs that add to your score on any given day that might not have failed with a chipper)

I think most in the thread intend to play by the rules in social golf (even with side bets) but there is a hell of a lot of breaches happening every day, from gimmieâ€™s to tossing a ball down rather than dropping from shoulder height, from asking/giving advice to using club head to move the ball under preferred lies...etc, itâ€™s much more common than folks might want to admit!


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## chrisd (Feb 16, 2015)

Huwey12 said:



			I think Dan is bis being ganged up on here, in my mind he is simply quoting the common rule breakers that happen every weekend either with or without a players knowledge
How many can honestly say they have called a penalty on thamselves ie ball has moved while addressing in the rough, quite common or while clearing debris around the ball which then moves
Is anyone playing with a slightly damaged club, if you are you can be D/Q'd but only if you call it to the comp officials
Dan knows the 2 faced chipper is illegal in comps, he's not arguing with the fact, only stating this isn't the only misdemeanour that happens
		
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I suppose it's where the line is drawn.
First, how serious is the friendly game ie money at stake, swindle, just a casual walk round practicing? If. It's a serious friendly as in a swindle or money at stake, I would expect the equipment used and basic rules to be observed, if it was a practice round with a pot of tea at the end as a prize I'd certainly not be particularly pedantic. I think Dan was suggesting that all non competition rounds are played with the rules being treated very loosely which is not what I generally see


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## Slab (Feb 16, 2015)

chrisd said:



			I suppose it's where the line is drawn.
First, how serious is the friendly game ie money at stake, swindle, just a casual walk round practicing? If. It's a serious friendly as in a swindle or money at stake, I would expect the equipment used and basic rules to be observed, if it was a practice round with a pot of tea at the end as a prize I'd certainly not be particularly pedantic. I think Dan was suggesting that all non competition rounds are played with the rules being treated very loosely which is not what I generally see
		
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No gimmies even in a non-comp money game, that's diff to what i see


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## Airsporter1st (Feb 16, 2015)

The easiest way around this apparent conundrum is to buy the cheap two-faced chipper and try it on the practice ground to see if its what you really want. If it is, buy a single faced one for use when playing.

Even the better quality ones are not extortionately priced and both left and right handed ones are available.

By the way, take a look at the Cleveland Niblick Chipper. It is a very versatile club for the short game and doesn't seem to carry quite so much of the stigma that people often associate with using a chipper.


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## Slab (Feb 16, 2015)

Airsporter1st said:



			The easiest way around this apparent conundrum is to buy the cheap two-faced chipper and try it on the practice ground to see if its what you really want. If it is, buy a single faced one for use when playing.

Even the better quality ones are not extortionately priced and both left and right handed ones are available.

By the way, take a look at the Cleveland Niblick Chipper. It is a very versatile club for the short game and doesn't seem to carry quite so much of the stigma that people often associate with using a chipper.
		
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You should never attach stigma to a club... it can make it non-conforming


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## USER1999 (Feb 16, 2015)

Slab said:



			No gimmies even in a non-comp money game, that's diff to what i see
		
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Most money games are match play, so gimmes are within the rules.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2015)

murphthemog said:



			Most money games are match play, so gimmes are within the rules.
		
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Most money games I see are swindles using Stableford ?


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## Slab (Feb 16, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Most money games I see are swindles using Stableford ?
		
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Me too, with rule breaches a plenty


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## DanFST (Feb 17, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Most money games I see are swindles using Stableford ?
		
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Yep that's what I see the most. I've also heard "just give me a blob" uttered on many an occasion.

Edit: Didn't add, when it's still possible, however unlikely to score a point.


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