# Essential Services



## CliveW (Apr 1, 2020)

Well it's nice to see that the sun is out and the traffic police are sitting on flyovers on the A90, flaunting the 2 metre rule, whilst the roads are probably the quietest ever, and trying to catch speeding motorists. These are part of the "Essential Services" that we are expected to respect and allow to jump the queue in supermarkets whilst we all wait outside. Sorry but you have lost any respect that I had.


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## Slime (Apr 1, 2020)

CliveW said:



			Well it's nice to see that the sun is out and the traffic police are sitting on flyovers on the A90, *flaunting the 2 metre rule,* whilst the roads are probably the quietest ever, and trying to catch speeding motorists. These are part of the "Essential Services" that we are expected to respect and allow to jump the queue in supermarkets whilst we all wait outside. Sorry but you have lost any respect that I had.
		
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Maybe they are housemates.


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## Billysboots (Apr 1, 2020)

Two points I would make. 

First, as someone who has been a cop for nearly thirty years, I couldn’t begin to tell you from that image whether the individuals in it are even cops, never mind what they are actually doing. Do you know for a fact what they were up to, or are you making an assumption because it suits you to do so?

Second, and of far greater importance, regardless of what the two individuals in that image happened to be doing in the split second you passed and, rather pathetically, chose to take a photo, these are people who, at the moment, are placing themselves and their own loved ones in significant harms way simply to try and keep the likes of you breathing.

You ought to be bloody ashamed.


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## jim8flog (Apr 1, 2020)

Maybe they are Brothers in Arms (going with today's theme)


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 1, 2020)

jim8flog said:



			Maybe they are Brothers in Arms (going with today's theme)
		
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No that's Friday's theme, it's Dire Straits


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## PhilTheFragger (Apr 1, 2020)

To be fair, since things have slowed down , I have noticed an increase in speeding cars taking advantage of the empty roads.

They are on a bridge, wearing Hi vis , they will be visible a way off, so if you don’t spot them you deserve to get done.

I’d say they are a visible deterrent


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 1, 2020)

CliveW said:



			Well it's nice to see that the sun is out and the traffic police are sitting on flyovers on the A90, flaunting the 2 metre rule, whilst the roads are probably the quietest ever, and trying to catch speeding motorists. These are part of the "Essential Services" that we are expected to respect and allow to jump the queue in supermarkets whilst we all wait outside. Sorry but you have lost any respect that I had.






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Well any speed detection device that I used in my 30 years service wouldn't work with a view like that so I'd be interested to know exactly what they were using; perhaps you could enlighten us all?


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## bigslice (Apr 1, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Two points I would make.

First, as someone who has been a cop for nearly thirty years, I couldn’t begin to tell you from that image whether the individuals in it are even cops, never mind what they are actually doing. Do you know for a fact what they were up to, or are you making an assumption because it suits you to do so?

Second, and of far greater importance, regardless of what the two individuals in that image happened to be doing in the split second you passed and, rather pathetically, chose to take a photo, these are people who, at the moment, are placing themselves and their own loved ones in significant harms way simply to try and keep the likes of you breathing.

You ought to be bloody ashamed.
		
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LOl u canny say in ure first paragraph that u cant tell who or what theyre doing, but in second uve contradicted ureself. Unreal

Ps . I agree with ure last sentence as the OP statement is very poor.


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## Billysboots (Apr 1, 2020)

bigslice said:



			LOl u canny say in ure first paragraph that u cant tell who or what theyre doing, but in second uve contradicted ureself. Unreal

Ps . I agree with ure last sentence as the OP statement is very poor.
		
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Okay, second paragraph, IN THE EVENT THEY ARE COPS, blah blah. That clear enough for you, or do you want to split hairs some more?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 1, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Okay, second paragraph, IN THE EVENT THEY ARE COPS, blah blah. That clear enough for you, or do you want to split hairs some more?
		
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Splitting hairs is this forums speciality 😃


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## bigslice (Apr 1, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Okay, second paragraph, IN THE EVENT THEY ARE COPS, blah blah. That clear enough for you, or do you want to split hairs some more?
		
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Its not splitting hairs when u massively contradicted ursef.
Anyway we need Law and Order otherwise its a riot.


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## SteveJay (Apr 1, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			these are people who, at the moment, are placing themselves and their own loved ones in significant harms way simply to try and keep the likes of you breathing.

You ought to be bloody ashamed.
		
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How exactly are they keeping us "breathing"?


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## Billysboots (Apr 1, 2020)

SteveJay said:



			How exactly are they keeping us "breathing"?
		
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Who do you think is trying to enforce this lockdown? 

The NHS, absolutely correctly, have received nothing but praise for their selfless courage in trying to confront coronavirus.

The police, in contrast, have been on the receiving end of some appalling press. All for trying their hardest to enforce brand new legislation, enacted virtually overnight, with guidance issued on the hoof. And the purpose of that legislation is very simple - to keep people alive and the NHS functioning.

I expect to see puerile drivel in publications like the Daily Mail. But to see a post on a golf forum, of all places, where someone has been pathetic enough to stop and take a photo of people he THINKS are police, who MAY be targeting speeding motorists, simply so he can rationalise a lack of respect for the police service? You’ll forgive me if that just boils the content of my bladder a little.


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## User20204 (Apr 1, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Two points I would make.

First, as someone who has been a cop for nearly thirty years, I couldn’t begin to tell you from that image whether the individuals in it are even cops, never mind what they are actually doing. Do you know for a fact what they were up to, or are you making an assumption because it suits you to do so?

Second, and of far greater importance, regardless of what the two individuals in that image happened to be doing in the split second you passed and, rather pathetically, chose to take a photo, these are people who, at the moment, are placing themselves and their own loved ones in significant harms way simply to try and keep the likes of you breathing.

You ought to be bloody ashamed.
		
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What a load of nonsense, you remind me of this line....


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 1, 2020)

Connected to this, sad to see at the evening briefing car journey are up. I said last night there seems more cars on the road at 6.30 and not convinced they can all e key workers. I am sure we're see more police on the roads in the coming days. We have to get idiots to stay off the roads bar essential journeys and staying at home or we'll be worse than Italy and Spain. I can see a situation where you'll need something from work to confirm you're a key worker and there being a more significant clampdown on car travel


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## Bunkermagnet (Apr 1, 2020)

TBH, they look like council or traffic management types.
Yes the roads are in general quieter, but it does seem a bit like Die Hard 3 and the ability to rob City Hall is being exploited by more than nornal


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## Billysboots (Apr 1, 2020)

HappyHacker1 said:



			What a load of nonsense, you remind me of this line....







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No. I can handle the truth. I’ve lived it every day of my working life for the best part of thirty thankless years. What I struggle with is armchair experts who know all about the job a police officer does, when the reality is they know nothing and would run a mile if they thought for just one moment they might have to spend a single day doing the job themselves.

Seriously, some people do not have the first clue what is going on all around them at the moment, but are happy to take cheap shots at those trying to protect them. It’s pathetic.


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## bigslice (Apr 1, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Who do you think is trying to enforce this lockdown?

The NHS, absolutely correctly, have received nothing but praise for their selfless courage in trying to confront coronavirus.

The police, in contrast, have been on the receiving end of some appalling press. All for trying their hardest to enforce brand new legislation, enacted virtually overnight, with guidance issued on the hoof. And the purpose of that legislation is very simple - to keep people alive and the NHS functioning.

I expect to see puerile drivel in publications like the Daily Mail. But to see a post on a golf forum, of all places, where someone has been pathetic enough to stop and take a photo of people he THINKS are police, who MAY be targeting speeding motorists, simply so he can rationalise a lack of respect for the police service? You’ll forgive me if that just boils the content of my bladder a little.
		
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100% agree👍


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## User20204 (Apr 1, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			No. I can handle the truth. I’ve lived it every day of my working life for the best part of thirty thankless years. What I struggle with is armchair experts who know all about the job a police officer does, when the reality is they know nothing and would run a mile if they thought for just one moment they might have to spend a single day doing the job themselves.

Seriously, some people do not have the first clue what is going on all around them at the moment, but are happy to take cheap shots at those trying to protect them. It’s pathetic.
		
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Brilliant, nothing like the polis being full of their own self importance, bet you thought that round of applause last week was for you


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## Billysboots (Apr 1, 2020)

HappyHacker1 said:



			Brilliant, nothing like the polis being full of their own self importance, bet you thought that round of applause last week was for you 

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Far from it. I know full well who the applause was for.

Still irked by a speeding ticket, by any chance?


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## User20204 (Apr 1, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Still irked by a speeding ticket, by any chance?
		
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Is that it ? is that your best reply  Never been in trouble with the police for 30 years + probably more 

Here's the deal, you stop making out you're keeping people breathing and I'll cut you some slack for the utter garage you spouted just a few posts earlier.


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## Hobbit (Apr 1, 2020)

At least the crash barrier was in focus...

And my applause was for anyone out there doing their bit to try and mitigate the issues in front of all of us.


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## Old Skier (Apr 1, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Connected to this, sad to see at the evening briefing car journey are up. I said last night there seems more cars on the road at 6.30 and not convinced they can all e key workers. I am sure we're see more police on the roads in the coming days. We have to get idiots to stay off the roads bar essential journeys and staying at home or we'll be worse than Italy and Spain. I can see a situation where you'll need something from work to confirm you're a key worker and there being a more significant clampdown on car travel
		
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Why would you worry about car journeys being up when the same graph shows public transport journeys down. Seems about right, it's not rocket science, people have got to get to work somehow. HID is designated worker and since the beginning of this has turned to her car instead of the bus.


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## PhilTheFragger (Apr 1, 2020)

Hacker, 
Wind it in please 👍


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 1, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Why would you worry about car journeys being up when the same graph shows public transport journeys down. Seems about right, it's not rocket science, people have got to get to work somehow. HID is designated worker and since the beginning of this has turned to her car instead of the bus.
		
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My concern is are the journey's necessary and are they all key workers. It does seem a sudden bug spike. I'm getting a lift to and from work as it's only 15 minutes at the moment in the car as opposed to over an hour on train and bus and of course the risk of infection hugely reduced. I simply don't think all these car trips are "necessary" and it's people bored at home going out places for a walk etc


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## Old Skier (Apr 1, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			My concern is are the journey's necessary and are they all key workers. It does seem a sudden bug spike. I'm getting a lift to and from work as it's only 15 minutes at the moment in the car as opposed to over an hour on train and bus and of course the risk of infection hugely reduced. I simply don't think all these car trips are "necessary" and it's people bored at home going out places for a walk etc
		
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Bound to be some unnecessary, we even had a forumer admitting to using his car when he takes his dog for a walk but there will also be an increase in work traffic if public traffic is reduced.

It's also becoming more obviously due to traffic reduction how many white van man read and use their phones when driving, far easier to spot.


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## Billysboots (Apr 1, 2020)

HappyHacker1 said:



			Here's the deal, you stop making out you're keeping people breathing and I'll cut you some slack for the utter garage you spouted just a few posts earlier.
		
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I’ll tell you what, then. How about the 43 police forces in the UK just wash their hands of this whole sorry business, and allow some of the moronic behaviour I have seen in the last ten days continue unabated? You think I’m talking garbage, pop along and listen to one of our daily briefings.

The lockdown was introduced because so many are so mind blowingly stupid they simply don’t get it. Corona house parties, pub lock-ins - you name it, it’s happening in a street near you.

Far from a police state, the UK approach has been very moderate to date. But if tougher enforcement keeps just one person out of a hospital bed, or worse, then it should be encouraged, not ridiculed.

Sorry that you think my comments amount to utter garbage. I’m sure you’ll share your own first hand experience to enlighten me why you think that’s the case.


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## CliveW (Apr 1, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Two points I would make.

First, as someone who has been a cop for nearly thirty years, I couldn’t begin to tell you from that image whether the individuals in it are even cops, never mind what they are actually doing. Do you know for a fact what they were up to, or are you making an assumption because it suits you to do so?

Second, and of far greater importance, regardless of what the two individuals in that image happened to be doing in the split second you passed and, rather pathetically, chose to take a photo, these are people who, at the moment, are placing themselves and their own loved ones in significant harms way simply to try and keep the likes of you breathing.

You ought to be bloody ashamed.
		
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Perhaps the picture doesn't do justice and is confusing. I had to negotiate past the marked BMW police car they were standing beside and saw them using their laser speed gun from the flyover. In Scotland police are required to be in twos as they cannot act without a witness, namely their partner. I hardly think they were placing themselves and their own loved ones in significant harms way by their actions. The picture was taken from the slip road coming off the main road on my return home.


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## PhilTheFragger (Apr 1, 2020)

I hope you weren’t using a phone to take a picture while driving......


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## CliveW (Apr 1, 2020)

Fraid not. I stopped, turned the engine off and used my camera. I never use the camera on my phone.


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## PhilTheFragger (Apr 1, 2020)

Well that’s ok then 
I mean stopping on a slip road is absolutely fine 👍


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## CliveW (Apr 1, 2020)

It is if it isn't a motorway and has a parking area.


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## Billysboots (Apr 1, 2020)

CliveW said:



			Perhaps the picture doesn't do justice and is confusing. I had to negotiate past the marked BMW police car they were standing beside and saw them using their laser speed gun from the flyover. In Scotland police are required to be in twos as they cannot act without a witness, namely their partner. I hardly think they were placing themselves and their own loved ones in significant harms way by their actions. The picture was taken from the slip road coming off the main road on my return home.
		
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Clive, you misunderstand me. I quite agree that at that moment they are not placing themselves in harms way. But they won’t spend 9 hours every day standing on a bridge.

They will have no option but to get inside the personal space of others, multiple times every day, just to do their jobs. And the primary focus of those jobs at present, despite your fleeting experience, will be to help prevent the spread of the coronavirus. I have colleagues who have moved out of their family homes for an indeterminate period, so terrified are they of contracting COVID19 and passing it to their families.

And yes, some of them are traffic cops who occasionally knock out a few speeding tickets.


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## Hobbit (Apr 1, 2020)

Mmm, choices, choices, choices. Have the police stop the spread of a virus or have them stop a speeder who might kill someone?

I’ll be greedy and take both.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 1, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			To be fair, since things have slowed down , I have noticed an increase in speeding cars taking advantage of the empty roads.

They are on a bridge, wearing Hi vis , they will be visible a way off, so if you don’t spot them you deserve to get done.

I’d say they are a visible deterrent
		
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Oh 100%

Driving to work tonight I was sat in the inside lane doing the limit and car next to me was doing the limit "forcing" cars behind to flash and undertake 

They all got blue light warnings from the car who was a police officer unmarked trying to slow the roads down a bit


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## garyinderry (Apr 1, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			My concern is are the journey's necessary and are they all key workers. It does seem a sudden bug spike. I'm getting a lift to and from work as it's only 15 minutes at the moment in the car as opposed to over an hour on train and bus and of course the risk of infection hugely reduced. I simply don't think all these car trips are "necessary" and it's people bored at home going out places for a walk etc
		
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No they wont all be key workers.  Manufacturing is still alive and kicking even if all the workers wont by the end of all this.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 2, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			My concern is are the journey's necessary and are they all key workers. It does seem a sudden bug spike. I'm getting a lift to and from work as it's only 15 minutes at the moment in the car as opposed to over an hour on train and bus and of course the risk of infection hugely reduced. I simply don't think all these car trips are "necessary" and it's people bored at home going out places for a walk etc
		
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It's not key workers only on roads .. your allowed to continue working and driving if you can't work from home.

I'd argue it's safer for these people to drive to their jobs if their employer won't support working from home than going by public transport


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## rulefan (Apr 2, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I'm getting a lift to and from work
		
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Two metres apart ?


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## Jacko_G (Apr 2, 2020)

CliveW said:



			Well it's nice to see that the sun is out and the traffic police are sitting on flyovers on the A90, flaunting the 2 metre rule, whilst the roads are probably the quietest ever, and trying to catch speeding motorists. These are part of the "Essential Services" that we are expected to respect and allow to jump the queue in supermarkets whilst we all wait outside. Sorry but you have lost any respect that I had.






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Would you still be quoting the 2m rule to two paramedics working on someone?

Answer is clearly no. 

Would you be quoting 2m rule to two firefighters going into a building?

Again answer is clearly no.

Would you quoting it to members of the lifeboat crew going out to sea?

Again the answer is clearly no.

Another idiotic post.


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## Jacko_G (Apr 2, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Splitting hairs is this forums speciality 😃
		
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Is certain persons agenda....


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 2, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Connected to this, sad to see at the evening briefing car journey are up. I said last night there seems more cars on the road at 6.30 and not convinced they can all e key workers. I am sure we're see more police on the roads in the coming days. We have to get idiots to stay off the roads bar essential journeys and staying at home or we'll be worse than Italy and Spain. I can see a situation where you'll need something from work to confirm you're a key worker and there being a more significant clampdown on car travel
		
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Out on our walk last night, and around the same time as you mention, we too thought that there was more traffic on the road.


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## MegaSteve (Apr 2, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Out on our walk last night, and around the same time as you mention, we too thought that there was more traffic on the road.
		
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Interesting, road I have to cross is way quieter than I can recollect for many years... For balance, the few vehicles passing are at stratospheric speeds 😡...


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## Hacker Khan (Apr 2, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Out on our walk last night, and around the same time as you mention, we too thought that there was more traffic on the road.
		
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Although it is a very small sample size as I am not next a road for long on the dog walk, during the day I've not really noticed any difference in the amount of traffic from before this all kicked off and now. And I do keep thinking to myself that there still seems to be a lot of people making 'essential car journeys'.


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## Hacker Khan (Apr 2, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Hacker,
Wind it in please 👍
		
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What have I done now????

Oh, it's the cheerful one, not me.....


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## bluewolf (Apr 2, 2020)

Bizarrely, on my “essential” daily commute to and from work, I’m noticing a LOT less traffic on the roads. Probably 70-80% less. Curious. Maybe it’s a regional thing! 😇


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## Jacko_G (Apr 2, 2020)

I've noticed a HUGE drop on the M8. Even traveling at "off peak" times it's crazy how little traffic I'm seeing on my daily commute.


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## Robster59 (Apr 2, 2020)

Here we have a snapshot of a particular moment in time with no real context of everything behind it.  All I see is two blokes, perhaps on a break, looking out over a bridge.  If they have to travel in a car together then I don't see what difference it makes if they're stood together once they stand outside.
I can't see a speed gun but, if you say they have, then I believe you.  I also can't see if they are police or people in high viz.

However, reading some of the posts on here it sounds like some people have an agenda against the police and will take the first opportunity to have a dig.  The OP is a perfect example of this. 

I'm not in the police but I know a few people who are and have been.  It's a tough job and even now they are putting themselves on the front line (before you say it, not on this picture but as I say that's a moment in time), are getting abuse both in person and in the press when they are trying to enforce government guidelines and by doing so are putting both themselves and their families at risk.

And it's amazing how many people don't like, or have a grudge against, the police.  Right until the moment they need them.


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## Slime (Apr 2, 2020)

I've noticed that the roads are much quieter and I've not noticed anybody driving really fast or dangerously.
As *bluewolf* said, it must be a regional thing.


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## harpo_72 (Apr 2, 2020)

The police are in a pretty awkward position.. the Government needs to give a message with clarity be specific.
The police should be given the right to act in those guidelines and there should be a list or rule set and punishment level that is equitable across all areas.
It should be presented by the government ( not Gove or we will all question it .. maybe Richi 🙂 he has handed out a few negatives with positive spin and is a popular darling.. let’s use that ) 
Then we can get on with it .. and the media who choose not to investigate their stories and back them up with facts .. put in isolation 🤣 no access to any method of comms


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## Hobbit (Apr 2, 2020)

harpo_72 said:



			The police are in a pretty awkward position.. the Government needs to give a message with clarity be specific.
The police should be given the right to act in those guidelines and there should be a list or rule set and punishment level that is equitable across all areas.
It should be presented by the government ( not Gove or we will all question it .. maybe Richi 🙂 he has handed out a few negatives with positive spin and is a popular darling.. let’s use that )
Then we can get on with it .. and the media who choose not to investigate their stories and back them up with facts .. put in isolation 🤣 no access to any method of comms
		
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Maybe I'm just a simple (retired) engineer. I find it quite simple. Don't go out unless its essential. All this, "I need to put the dog in the car and drive xx" is just Rolex. Funnily enough if you step outside you're front door you're walking. "Yes but...." No yes but, if we all did yes but we'd have 64 million different versions. The law is the law. We don't have to put spin on it, question it, stretch it. "Yes but I just want to pick up a tin of paint..." Two things; if everyone went to pick up a tin of paint what would be the point of a lockdown? Will the job wait till the lockdown is over? Its not essential.

All this "but I saw the police with a hair dryer..." The whole raft of law and order hasn't been suspended. Do you realise how childish and petty you look?


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## Orikoru (Apr 2, 2020)

Is the OP implying that the police should turn a blind eye to speeding now because there's a pandemic? Not sure I understand that logic.


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## harpo_72 (Apr 2, 2020)

Hobbit said:



			Maybe I'm just a simple (retired) engineer. I find it quite simple. Don't go out unless its essential. All this, "I need to put the dog in the car and drive xx" is just Rolex. Funnily enough if you step outside you're front door you're walking. "Yes but...." No yes but, if we all did yes but we'd have 64 million different versions. The law is the law. We don't have to put spin on it, question it, stretch it. "Yes but I just want to pick up a tin of paint..." Two things; if everyone went to pick up a tin of paint what would be the point of a lockdown? Will the job wait till the lockdown is over? Its not essential.

All this "but I saw the police with a hair dryer..." The whole raft of law and order hasn't been suspended. Do you realise how childish and petty you look?
		
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Unfortunately the art of communication is getting the message across so that everyone has no doubts .. Keep it black and white .. no grey


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## Hobbit (Apr 2, 2020)

harpo_72 said:



			Unfortunately the art of communication is getting the message across so that everyone has no doubts .. Keep it black and white .. no grey
		
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I don't see grey, probably because I try not to listen when a reporter/interviewer tries to get an angle on something. Written down there is no grey, its there when politicians give their version of it on the back of an interviewer being a d!ck.


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## bobmac (Apr 2, 2020)

harpo_72 said:



			Unfortunately the art of communication is getting the message across *so that everyone has no doubts *.. Keep it black and white .. no grey
		
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Is there a law, black, white or pink with spots on that says don't jump off a 5 storey building roof?
No, you use your common sense.
There is a lethal virus out there that doesn't discriminate.
What part of the message *'STAY IN' *are people struggling with?


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## harpo_72 (Apr 2, 2020)

Hobbit said:



			I don't see grey, probably because I try not to listen when a reporter/interviewer tries to get an angle on something. Written down there is no grey, its there when politicians give their version of it on the back of an interviewer being a d!ck.
		
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Yeah I know, but as an engineer you use logic and maths.. stuff is yes/no, black and white .. but to others this is not the case they either don’t get to the conclusion because they start to be distracted or they just have not understood.
All heads work differently, processes are put in place to bring people to a common place .. I am saying a process needs to be applied to get to a common place. I am not saying you require it .. but someone does. We should only expect the police to enforce it and they should be given clear ground rules as should the public ..


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## harpo_72 (Apr 2, 2020)

bobmac said:



			Is there a law, black, white or pink with spots on that says don't jump off a 5 storey building roof?
No, you use your common sense.
There is a lethal virus out there that doesn't discriminate.
What part of the message *'STAY IN' *are people struggling with?
		
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Bob , I have no idea why they cannot just stay in .. I have no idea why people think they are key workers .. All I can conclude is they misinterpreted the message.

However my experience of the law is that is not black and white and somewhere in the middle it has colour .. I have struggled with this for almost a year personally and as an engineer who sees clear boundaries and finite answers, it is really quite distressing.


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## Hobbit (Apr 2, 2020)

harpo_72 said:



			Yeah I know, but as an engineer you use logic and maths.. stuff is yes/no, black and white .. but to others this is not the case they either don’t get to the conclusion because they start to be distracted or they just have not understood.
All heads work differently, processes are put in place to bring people to a common place .. I am saying a process needs to be applied to get to a common place. I am not saying you require it .. but someone does. We should only expect the police to enforce it and they should be given clear ground rules as should the public ..
		
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I also think that the number of people that don't get it 'v' the number of people that deliberately don't get it is part of the problem. You're right, some people do need it explaining in Jack and Jill terms but I do think there are some who need their head shoved in a toilet and flushed.

I often harp back to rugby referees, sorry. When the ref says its a penalty, or whatever, its not questioned. There's no point...


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## Hacker Khan (Apr 2, 2020)

bobmac said:



*Is there a law, black, white or pink with spots on that says don't jump off a 5 storey building roof?*
No, you use your common sense.
There is a lethal virus out there that doesn't discriminate.
What part of the message *'STAY IN' *are people struggling with?
		
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In times like this I am often reminded of this from the classic Young Ones

_[Mike and Vyv turn towards the TV which is showing nothing but lines and noise.]

*MIKE:* Well, I don't call this a new era in televisual entertainment.

*VYVYAN:* No. I call it very, very dull!

*MIKE:* Must have gone wrong somewhere.

*VYVYAN:* Oh God!

*MIKE:* Maybe you shouldn't have poured all of that washing-up liquid in it.

*VYVYAN:* But it says here, Michael look, "Ensure machine is clean, and free from dust"!

*MIKE:* Yeah, but it don't say, "Ensure the machine is full of washing-up liquid"!

*VYVYAN:* No, but it doesn't say, "Ensure the machine isn't full of washing-up liquid"!

*MIKE:* Well, it wouldn't would it! I mean, it doesn't say, "Ensure you don't chop up your video machine with an axe, put all the bits in a plastic bag, and bung 'em down the lavatory"!

*VYVYAN:* Doesn't it? Well maybe that's what's going wrong!_

I feel there are a lot of people who would chop up video machines with axes at the moment............................


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## Billysboots (Apr 2, 2020)

bobmac said:



			What part of the message *'STAY IN' *are people struggling with?
		
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I think it’s the use of the long and complicated words “stay” and “in” which are the issue . Perhaps the Government should have opted for something a little less ambiguous.

Seriously, our control room staff our fielding hundreds of calls daily on this issue, and some of the questions defy belief. The guidance is breathtaking in its simplicity. My kids fully understand the circumstances in which they are allowed out.

Alas, a huge proportion of our great British public are equally breathtaking in their simplicity.


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## hovis (Apr 2, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			Would you be quoting 2m rule to two firefighters going into a building?
		
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i said this the other day before someone reminded me that we wear breathing apaaratus 😂

however, our chief has already had multiple letters of complaints from the public about us riding with 5 people in one truck.  one person said we should all have one fire engine each😂


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 2, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Is the OP implying that the police should turn a blind eye to speeding now because there's a pandemic? Not sure I understand that logic.
		
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A cough can travel up to approx 50mph. A sneeze can travel up to approx 100mph so as long as you travel everywhere at over 100mph you can't catch the virus. Feel free to use this as your defence in court if you get caught speeding.


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## Bunkermagnet (Apr 2, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			I think it’s the use of the long and complicated words “stay” and “in” which are the issue . Perhaps the Government should have opted for something a little less ambiguous.

Seriously, our control room staff our fielding hundreds of calls daily on this issue, and some of the questions defy belief. The guidance is breathtaking in its simplicity. My kids fully understand the circumstances in which they are allowed out.

Alas, a huge proportion of our great British public are equally breathtaking in their simplicity.
		
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I think the original message from Boris should have been very specific in what jobs are classed as essential or not. That is the problem, and many still working say they are "essential" workers when in reality if they were at home no-one would die.
As for those using their cars to walk the dogs......what can you say, the World over has people like that.


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## Billysboots (Apr 2, 2020)

harpo_72 said:



			We should only expect the police to enforce it and they should be given clear ground rules as should the public ..
		
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Whilst I absolutely agree, legislation is generally debated to death prior to enactment, takes an age to reach the statute books, is subject of extensive research and training within police forces, and then a number of key precedents are usually set via the court process.

This guidance was, quite literally, issued overnight. There are going to be teething problems which is why it is so important the public play their part.

The public in this country have no idea how lucky they are to be afforded the opportunity to largely police this themselves.


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## Bunkermagnet (Apr 2, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Whilst I absolutely agree, legislation is generally debated to death prior to enactment, takes an age to reach the statute books, is subject of extensive research and training within police forces, and then a number of key precedents are usually set via the court process.

This guidance was, quite literally, issued overnight. There are going to be teething problems which is why it is so important the public play their part.

The public in this country have no idea how lucky they are to be afforded the opportunity to largely police this themselves.
		
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I agree, however the public also know that we have a distinct lack of Police officers for anything since the cutbacks started years ago. As a result, many of the public think that if you are caught doing something wrong you are considered by some to be unlucky.
Our emergency services have been decimated over the recent years/decade, and now those cuts are coming home to roost. I just hope that after this whole thing is over that those in power realise that running a country with everything cut to the bone isn't a good way to beor act. You need slack for when the difficult times arrive, and they surely will again.


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## bobmac (Apr 2, 2020)

I go and exercise cause I'm allowed to.
I walk the dog cause I'm allowed to.
I go for a walk cause I'm allowed to.
I go for a drive to walk the dog cause I'm allowed to.
I could jump off a five storey building cause I'm allowed to.
But do I? No 

Stay in, build your dog a kennel in the back garden and get an exercise bike.

No-ones asking you to dodge bullets
No-one's asking you to hide in air raid shelters
No-ones asking you to fight for your country
All they are asking you is to lie on your sofa for a fortnight.

When you've been back at work for a week, I'll bet most of you will wish you were back on your sofa.
Please, do the NHS a favour, use your brain and stay in


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## Hobbit (Apr 2, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Whilst I absolutely agree, legislation is generally debated to death prior to enactment, takes an age to reach the statute books, is subject of extensive research and training within police forces, and then a number of key precedents are usually set via the court process.

This guidance was, quite literally, issued overnight. There are going to be teething problems which is why it is so important the public play their part.

The public in this country have no idea how lucky they are to be afforded the opportunity to largely police this themselves.
		
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Just picking out your last sentence, oh how so very true. Here we have the Policia, the Guardia Civil and the Guardia National. They all have the same laws to uphold, especially now, but they get different instructions. The Policia get their instructions from the town hall, the Guardia don't. And even then the Guardia in different towns are interpreting some of the lockdown laws differently.

The Guardia say you should shop in the village, the Guardia in another town say its ok to shop there but the Guardia in another town turn you back. The Policia here have told one person that as they have a garden they can walk their dog in the garden. Another town has put a 50m limit on the walk, another a 200m limit but the Royal Decree has no limit.

Here the Police, whichever version, interpret the law and you don't argue.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 2, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I think the original message from Boris should have been very specific in what jobs are classed as essential or not. That is the problem, and many still working say they are "essential" workers when in reality if they were at home no-one would die.
.
		
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There is nothing out there in the advice or recommendations that say you only go to work if your job is essential. They state that you should work from home if you can but if that is not possible then go to work still. The govt want people to work still, they need some form of economy to be functioning.

People need to get past the 'essential worker' phrase, it is not correct.


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## Orikoru (Apr 2, 2020)

bobmac said:



			All they are asking you is to lie on your sofa for a *fortnight*.
		
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You think this will be over in another week???


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## bobmac (Apr 2, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			You think this will be over in another week???  

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No, but it will reduce the spread of the virus to help the NHS cope


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## harpo_72 (Apr 2, 2020)

Hobbit said:



			I also think that the number of people that don't get it 'v' the number of people that deliberately don't get it is part of the problem. You're right, some people do need it explaining in Jack and Jill terms but I do think there are some who need their head shoved in a toilet and flushed.

I often harp back to rugby referees, sorry. When the ref says its a penalty, or whatever, its not questioned. There's no point...
		
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Yes I agree .. but I’ll stop here because I am sure someone will take offence 👍


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 2, 2020)

The biggest issue at the moment is we seem to be fighting 3 pandemics; COVID-19, stupidity, & selfishness.


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## harpo_72 (Apr 2, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			The biggest issue at the moment is the seem to be fighting 3 pandemics; COVID-19, stupidity, & selfishness.
		
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2 of those we won’t win in the short term .. they require investment in the educational system and possibly the reduction of social media ..


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## DaveR (Apr 2, 2020)

My G/F's best mate is still going to work as her workplace is still fully open. It's a factory making commemorative coins. Not sure I would class that as essential


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## DaveR (Apr 2, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			A cough can travel up to approx 50mph. A sneeze can travel up to approx 100mph so as long as you travel everywhere at over 100mph you can't catch the virus. Feel free to use this as your defence in court if you get caught speeding. 

Click to expand...

If you drive into a sneeze at 100mph that's an impact speed of 200mph, surely that's gotta hurt?


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## hovis (Apr 2, 2020)

DaveR said:



			My G/F's best mate is still going to work as her workplace is still fully open. It's a factory making commemorative coins. Not sure I would class that as essential 

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i get this but a green keeper cutting grass is hardly essential.        we got called to a chemial factory the other day that makes glue.  the staff where down to a handful and each person worked in one room by themselves .  not ideal i completely agree but it looked affective


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## DRW (Apr 2, 2020)

This thread is a little bit out of step with the government guidance and peoples black/white views aren't necessarily legally correct at the moment (I'm more of a grey person but comply with guidance or the laws, rather than break them), have a read here over FAQ :-

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...avirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do

The section about work is quite different and does not refer to essential workers only etc :-





*4. Should I stay at home or go to work?*
You may travel for work purposes, but only where you cannot work from home.

Certain jobs require people to travel to their place of work – for instance if they operate machinery, work in construction or manufacturing, or are delivering front line services such as train and bus drivers.

Employers and employees should discuss their working arrangements, and employers should take every possible step to facilitate their employees working from home, including providing suitable IT and equipment to enable remote working.

*5. I’m not a critical worker and I can’t work from home. What should I do?*
If you cannot work from home then you can still travel to work. This is consistent with the Chief Medical Officer’s advice.

Critical workers are those who can still take their children to school or childcare. This critical worker definition does not affect whether or not you can travel to work – if you are not a critical worker, you may still travel to work provided you cannot work from home.

Anyone who has symptoms or is in a household where someone has symptoms should not go to work and should self-isolate.


*13. Can I go to the park?*
You can still go to the park for outdoor exercise once a day but only alone or with members of your household, not in groups.

Communal places within parks such as sports courts, playgrounds and outdoor gyms have been closed to protect everyone’s health.

We ask that households use parks responsibly and keep 2 metres apart from others at all times.

Unless you are with members of your household, gatherings of more than two people in parks and other public spaces have been banned. The police have the powers to disperse gatherings and issue fines if necessary.

*14. Can I drive to a national park or other green space to walk?*
We advise you to stay local and use open spaces near to your home where possible – do not travel unnecessarily.

You can still go to the park for outdoor exercise once a day but only by yourself or within your household, not in groups.

We ask you to keep 2 metres apart from others outside your household at all times when outdoors.
		
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## rulefan (Apr 2, 2020)

_You should only leave the house for very limited purposes:_

_shopping for basic necessities, for example food and medicine, which must be as infrequent as possible_
_one form of exercise a day, for example a run, walk, or cycle - alone or with members of your household_
_any medical need, including to donate blood, avoid or escape risk of injury or harm, or to provide care or to help a vulnerable person_
_travelling for work purposes, but only where you cannot work from home_
I am struggling to see where the words 'work' and 'essential' appear in conjunction with each other.

*The government is not saying only people doing “essential” work can go to work. Anyone who cannot work from home can still go to work. *


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## Old Skier (Apr 2, 2020)

Police down here working with their hands tied behind their back due to the local MP and bloody police commissioner (what is there purpose in life) insisting on a softly softly approach which has now resulted in a disregard by a number  of those including a family with two small infants and insisting that the rules don't apply to them. We have been relatively free of things up here but for how long.


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## Swinglowandslow (Apr 2, 2020)

Hobbit said:



			I don't see grey, probably because I try not to listen when a reporter/interviewer tries to get an angle on something. Written down there is no grey, its there when politicians give their version of it on the back of an interviewer being a d!ck.
		
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Exactly my feelings when the Daily Briefing opens to questions.
You can see the years of political reporting manifested in questions where the main intention is , to my mind, to "catch out the politician" If I do, it shows what a good reporter I am. Maybe my career will progress."
There doesn't seem to be a sense of national crisis in which the journalists have to try to do their bit to *help.*
Why can't the questions be directed towards that end. ?

Some might see what they ask as doing that, making sure the politicians aren't getting away with things, with lies etc. We'll see🙄
Come on, this isn't Parliament and Party politics. It's about getting the best information out there to the public and it's everyone's job to help.


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## SteveJay (Apr 2, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Who do you think is trying to enforce this lockdown?

The NHS, absolutely correctly, have received nothing but praise for their selfless courage in trying to confront coronavirus.

The police, in contrast, have been on the receiving end of some appalling press. All for trying their hardest to enforce brand new legislation, enacted virtually overnight, with guidance issued on the hoof. And the purpose of that legislation is very simple - to keep people alive and the NHS functioning.

I expect to see puerile drivel in publications like the Daily Mail. But to see a post on a golf forum, of all places, where someone has been pathetic enough to stop and take a photo of people he THINKS are police, who MAY be targeting speeding motorists, simply so he can rationalise a lack of respect for the police service? You’ll forgive me if that just boils the content of my bladder a little.
		
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Yeah, but "keeping us breathing" is just a bit of a poor choice of words.


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## User20204 (Apr 2, 2020)

DaveR said:



			My G/F's best mate is still going to work as her workplace is still fully open. It's a factory making commemorative coins. Not sure I would class that as essential 

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I think you're confused about what was said. It's not only for essential work it's if you can't do work from home. I don't know the place but suspect they can't make said coins from home.


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## bluewolf (Apr 2, 2020)

I'm absolutely loving the fact that there are people on this thread stating that the rules aren't clear enough, then lots of other people stating that they are only "not clear enough" if you're a moron or deliberately obtuse, then a third group complaining that non "essential" workers are still going to work...

I keep having to remind myself that this forum is free.. It's comedy bloody gold.. Thank you one and all (from someone still in work despite not being "essential" as I actually understand the bloody rules.............)


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## Robster59 (Apr 2, 2020)

The rules/instructions/guidelines are only ambiguous to people who want it to be so.  The instructions are clear.  But *IF SOMEBODY DOESN'T WANT TO OBEY THOSE RULES*, they will find a loophole/excuse/reason as to why it doesn't apply to them.  
You're never going to find something that's totally disambiguous.  Defence lawyers earn their money looking for loopholes in well established laws.  
This is more about stupidity, selfishness and arrogance.


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## bluewolf (Apr 2, 2020)

Robster59 said:



			The rules/instructions/guidelines are only ambiguous to people who want it to be so.  The instructions are clear.  But *IF SOMEBODY DOESN'T WANT TO OBEY THOSE RULES*, they will find a loophole/excuse/reason as to why it doesn't apply to them. 
You're never going to find something that's totally disambiguous.  Defence lawyers earn their money looking for loopholes in well established laws. 
This is more about *stupidity, selfishness and arrogance*.
		
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So which one are the people above who are complaining that non-essential workers are still going to work?


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## DaveR (Apr 2, 2020)

HappyHacker1 said:



			I think you're confused about what was said. It's not only for essential work it's if you can't do work from home. I don't know the place but suspect they can't make said coins from home.
		
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Virtually all shops apart from supermarkets are closed, banks are closed, even Sports Direct is closed but it's OK to keep a factory open that makes commemorative coins?


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## bluewolf (Apr 2, 2020)

DaveR said:



			Virtually all shops apart from supermarkets are closed, banks are closed, even Sports Direct is closed but it's OK to keep a factory open that makes commemorative coins?
		
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I don't think you're helping the point that several on here are trying to make mate... Good on ya for trying though.. I'm sure that Harpo appreciates your input


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## Robster59 (Apr 2, 2020)

bluewolf said:



			So which one are the people above who are complaining that non-essential workers are still going to work?
		
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I'm on about the people who are not even going out to work, but decide to drive miles to take their dog for a walk, or people who are still walking around in groups despite the warnings.  OK, it's off topic I appreciate that now but I guess these threads sometimes go that way.
I've been sent a video (I can't post it here) of a group of 6-10 lads, all walking along Allison Street in Glasgow at 9am.  All walking together, no social distancing, and when they were challenged they responded in the typical Glaswegian way of abuse.


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## User20204 (Apr 2, 2020)

DaveR said:



			Virtually all shops apart from supermarkets are closed, banks are closed, even Sports Direct is closed but it's OK to keep a factory open that makes commemorative coins?
		
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All places that attract the public, likely to be larger than 2. A factory workplace is not likely to attract the public.


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## Billysboots (Apr 2, 2020)

SteveJay said:



			Yeah, but "keeping us breathing" is just a bit of a poor choice of words.
		
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Point taken - an unintended choice of words which, in hindsight, was inappropriate.


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## bluewolf (Apr 2, 2020)

Robster59 said:



			I'm on about the people who are not even going out to work, but decide to drive miles to take their dog for a walk, or people who are still walking around in groups despite the warnings.  OK, it's off topic I appreciate that now but I guess these threads sometimes go that way.
I've been sent a video (I can't post it here) of a group of 6-10 lads, all walking along Allison Street in Glasgow at 9am.  All walking together, no social distancing, and when they were challenged they responded in the typical Glaswegian way of abuse.
		
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I know that there are a minority of knobheads ignoring the rules. It’s the same in every situation. However, I do have some sympathy for Harpo’s point. The rules have been poorly communicated in part. Politicians, media and authorities have all displayed ignorance in this. And yes, it should just be as simple as “Stay in unless you absolutely have to for food or medicine”. But those aren’t the rules. There are other exceptions that people have unfortunately misunderstood.


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## 3offTheTee (Apr 2, 2020)

This thread started about police of which there are 8 in our golf group extremely compliant and I have always appreciated everything they do, even before I met these lads. All have had good jobs the lowest rank being DS.

However there is another retired ex bobby across the road who was adamant they can go in their car, say 3 miles, park and go for a walk.

Also it is OK for him to go to the local reservoir by car to try and catch some trout!

Am I missing something here regarding what is allowed?


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## DaveR (Apr 2, 2020)

HappyHacker1 said:



			All places that attract the public, likely to be larger than 2. A factory workplace is not likely to attract the public.
		
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OK, if you think factory workers aren't members of the public then you crack on.


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## Billysboots (Apr 2, 2020)

3offTheTee said:



			This thread started about police of which there are 8 in our golf group extremely compliant and I have always appreciated everything they do, even before I met these lads. All have had good jobs the lowest rank being DS.

However there is another retired ex bobby across the road who was adamant they can go in their car, say 3 miles, park and go for a walk.

Also it is OK for him to go to the local reservoir by car to try and catch some trout!

Am I missing something here regarding what is allowed?
		
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No. He is.


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## Bunkermagnet (Apr 2, 2020)

To me it's about social responsibility. I am furloughed, and there are some in my profession still working and that may impact on us when we get back to work. However since I have to go into peoples houses to do my work, I am very concerned about the ignorance of the social distancing requirements and peoples selfishness when wanting their repairs done (they don't tell you they are self isolating, not well or just flown back into the country) all or which I had in the last few days I was still working prior to the latest government guidance. Now fair enough, I may be allowed to work, but my social responsibility tells me that by going from house to house, family to family I risk catching, or worse spreading the virus to anyone I meet. That doesn't help anyone, and definatley doesn't help stop the spread of the thing.


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## Swinglowandslow (Apr 2, 2020)

3offTheTee said:



			This thread started about police of which there are 8 in our golf group extremely compliant and I have always appreciated everything they do, even before I met these lads. All have had good jobs the lowest rank being DS.

However there is another retired ex bobby across the road who was adamant they can go in their car, say 3 miles, park and go for a walk.

Also it is OK for him to go to the local reservoir by car to try and catch some trout!

Am I missing something here regarding what is allowed?
		
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No, that retired bobby is wrong.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2020)

Swinglowandslow said:



			No, that retired bobby is wrong.
		
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Which bit? The drive to walk or the fishing?


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## 3offTheTee (Apr 2, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Which bit? The drive to walk or the fishing?
		
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Paul 
I thought they were both wrong but am willing to be corrected. Is the drive and walk similar to what happened in Derbyshire with the police and drones?
Just moving on slightly ; if they went to the shop for food necessities then went on a walk under 1 hour, killing 2 birds with one stone, is that acceptable?


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## harpo_72 (Apr 2, 2020)

bluewolf said:



			I know that there are a minority of knobheads ignoring the rules. It’s the same in every situation. However, I do have some sympathy for Harpo’s point. The rules have been poorly communicated in part. Politicians, media and authorities have all displayed ignorance in this. And yes, it should just be as simple as “Stay in unless you absolutely have to for food or medicine”. But those aren’t the rules. There are other exceptions that people have unfortunately misunderstood.
		
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I only make my point about communication because we all assume every one understands and then get frustrated when actually they don’t. Bit of benefit of the doubt, then it’s as Hobbit suggests give them a bog wash .. preferably in one of them London toilets that has not been cleaned 🤣..


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## Bunkermagnet (Apr 2, 2020)

harpo_72 said:



			Bit of benefit of the doubt, then it’s as Hobbit suggests give them a bog wash .. preferably in one of them London toilets that has not been cleaned 🤣..
		
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There's plenty of London flats with toilets that could apply to, many in nice area's and often with female tenants.(not that sort of tenant just in case you're thinking abstract)


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2020)

3offTheTee said:



			Paul
I thought they were both wrong but am willing to be corrected. Is the drive and walk similar to what happened in Derbyshire with the police and drones?
Just moving on slightly ; if they went to the shop for food necessities then went on a walk under 1 hour, killing 2 birds with one stone, is that acceptable?
		
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In principle it’s quite straightforward, but I’m getting the impression it depends on were you live.

Last night on the local news in the NE the Police spokesman said if you live in an area and you drive a few miles to a local park or the coast to go for a walk or take your dog for a walk that is fine, but you are not to drive outside your local area to another area to exercise or walk your dog.

What he didn’t/wouldn’t clarify is what is a few miles when questioned, he sorted of settled on 3-5 miles.


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## oxymoron (Apr 2, 2020)

Unfortunately you will always get some who know better , its time to support ALL of our emergency services and doing as advised is the only way we are going to crack this.
Only an absolute moron will ignore the guidelines , however if the morons carry on they will become stricter and then the police will have to enforce the matter , so step back and think before you decide you are above the rest of us and these guides do not apply to you .
The police are doing their best in a novel situation thats been dumped on them so society needs to stop playing the victim and knuckle down .
People will always try to blame someone else for their stupidity its time to take some personal responsibility .


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## JustOne (Apr 2, 2020)

harpo_72 said:



			Bob , I have no idea why they cannot just stay in .. I have no idea why people think they are key workers .. All I can conclude is they misinterpreted the message.
		
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Why does it matter? Just make sure YOU (and the ones you love) do the best you can according to the rules then you won't get the vius.



DaveR said:



			My G/F's best mate is still going to work as her workplace is still fully open. It's a factory making commemorative coins. Not sure I would class that as essential 

Click to expand...

Why does it matter? Just make sure YOU (and the ones you love) do the best you can according to the rules then you won't get the vius.



Robster59 said:



			I've been sent a video (I can't post it here) of a group of 6-10 lads, all walking along Allison Street in Glasgow at 9am.  All walking together, no social distancing, and when they were challenged they responded in the typical Glaswegian way of abuse.
		
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Why does it matter? Just make sure YOU (and the ones you love) do the best you can according to the rules then you won't get the vius.



There's a lot of self made police at their keyboards right now, blimey people just let people get on with what they are doing and let the REAL POLICE deal with them as they see fit (and that involves policing our roads too).


If you do YOUR PART PROPERLY is shouldn't matter what BillyBob Nomates up the road is doing. I couldn't care less if a group of 10 lads walk past my house, that's for the police to take care of, not me.
Totally understand the frustration though, it's hard to be perfect individuals such as us whilst all other people are clearly misbehaved knobs and they should clearly NEVER leave their houses!!


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## JustOne (Apr 2, 2020)

We should bring back FLOGGING IN THE STREET, then we will see how many people want to go to the park


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## DaveR (Apr 2, 2020)

JustOne said:



			Why does it matter? Just make sure YOU (and the ones you love) do the best you can according to the rules then you won't get the vius.



Why does it matter? Just make sure YOU (and the ones you love) do the best you can according to the rules then you won't get the vius.



Why does it matter? Just make sure YOU (and the ones you love) do the best you can according to the rules then you won't get the vius.



There's a lot of self made police at their keyboards right now, blimey people just let people get on with what they are doing and let the REAL POLICE deal with them as they see fit (and that involves policing our roads too).


If you do YOUR PART PROPERLY is shouldn't matter what BillyBob Nomates up the road is doing. I couldn't care less if a group of 10 lads walk past my house, that's for the police to take care of, not me.
Totally understand the frustration though, it's hard to be perfect individuals such as us whilst all other people are clearly misbehaved knobs and they should clearly NEVER leave their houses!!

Click to expand...

The longer there are idiots out there spreading the virus, the longer we will be in lock down. It's not rocket science.


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## Robster59 (Apr 2, 2020)

JustOne said:



			Why does it matter? Just make sure YOU (and the ones you love) do the best you can according to the rules then you won't get the vius.

There's a lot of self made police at their keyboards right now, blimey people just let people get on with what they are doing and let the REAL POLICE deal with them as they see fit (and that involves policing our roads too).

If you do YOUR PART PROPERLY is shouldn't matter what BillyBob Nomates up the road is doing. I couldn't care less if a group of 10 lads walk past my house, that's for the police to take care of, not me.
Totally understand the frustration though, it's hard to be perfect individuals such as us whilst all other people are clearly misbehaved knobs and they should clearly NEVER leave their houses!!

Click to expand...

Why does it matter?  Seriously?  

Because unless EVERYBODY obeys the rules the virus won't stop spreading, or at best will take longer to get under control.
The more these idiots come across other people (shopkeepers, staff at supermarkets, petrol stations, etc.) the more chance of them spreading the virus.
Because I and countless others will be restricted in being able to go out because other people don't believe the rules apply to them.
Because despite our best efforts, the chances of cross infection increase.  Parcels and letters we get delivered, putting in bins that have been emptied, getting groceries that these idiots might have been near.  All these could get contaminated.
Because businesses will be shut longer, some will go out of business, people will lose jobs, livelihoods, money, etc.
They're all I can think of off the top of my head but other people I'm sure could add to that list.


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## 3offTheTee (Apr 2, 2020)

Robster59 said:



			Why does it matter?  Seriously? 

Because unless EVERYBODY obeys the rules the virus won't stop spreading, or at best will take longer to get under control.
The more these idiots come across other people (shopkeepers, staff at supermarkets, petrol stations, etc.) the more chance of them spreading the virus.
Because I and countless others will be restricted in being able to go out because other people don't believe the rules apply to them.
Because despite our best efforts, the chances of cross infection increase.  Parcels and letters we get delivered, putting in bins that have been emptied, getting groceries that these idiots might have been near.  All these could get contaminated.
Because businesses will be shut longer, some will go out of business, people will lose jobs, livelihoods, money, etc.
They're all I can think of off the top of my head but other people I'm sure could add to that list.
		
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It’s only a wind up, or I hope so. April Fools Day was yesterday


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## Robster59 (Apr 2, 2020)

3offTheTee said:



			It’s only a wind up, or I hope so. April Fools Day was yesterday
		
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I'd like to think so but it is sadly representative of the mentality of some people.


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## JustOne (Apr 2, 2020)

DaveR said:



			The longer there are idiots out there spreading the virus, the longer we will be in lock down. It's not rocket science.
		
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Actually the longer there are idiots out there spreading the disease, the quicker they will get it.

I don't particularly want to get it so therefore I stay in.
(although I actually deal with the public so will struggle to avoid it) 

What is important is that the NHS isn't overwhelmed so with millions of people staying in it, hopefully, won't be.

Out of interest, assuming WE ALL STAY IN when do you think we would be able to come out of lockdown?


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## Fade and Die (Apr 2, 2020)




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## DRW (Apr 2, 2020)

JustOne said:



			Actually the longer there are idiots out there spreading the disease, the quicker they will get it.

I don't particularly want to get it so therefore I stay in.
(although I actually deal with the public so will struggle to avoid it) 

What is important is that the NHS isn't overwhelmed so with millions of people staying in it, hopefully, won't be.

*Out of interest, assuming WE ALL STAY IN when do you think we would be able to come out of lockdown*?
		
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That's the interesting question, how do we work towards the end game(whatever that looks like). Its a long journey to any of the choices(please feel free to add to) :-

We stay home, until the virus dies as it cant spread anymore (if that would ever work, nope tbh)
As above with massive trace and testing
We stay at home until the NHS has massive resources and we can keep getting infected in batches (antibodies from being infected will probably only last 2-3 years tho, so we better get the NHS much bigger quickly and action it quickly)
We stay at home until drugs get better/online to help with the fight against the virus and more vents etc (which there are some medicine & equipment testing/coming on line from the looks of it)
We stay at home until a vaccine happens (that's if the virus does not mutate in the meantime, which first indications are that it isn't really)
Herd immunity

or of course the one that isn't workable :-

we let the virus rip now and what will be, will be.


Or a  mixture of some of the above ?

Any of the choices above, mean we are playing a bleeding medium to long game here(many months if not years)  and then the question is whether the cure is worse than the virus really comes into question(financially, mental health and so on I am referring to), as there will be many directly 'un-recordable' deaths from that.

I love to see the big picture/end game, but have been wrestling with it for a number of weeks as struggling to see a workable one, that solves it within say a year.


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## Swinglowandslow (Apr 2, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Which bit? The drive to walk or the fishing?
		
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Both.


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## JustOne (Apr 2, 2020)

DRW said:



			That's the interesting question, how do we work towards the end game(whatever that looks like). Its a long journey to any of the choices(please feel free to add to) :-
		
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I had basically written out the options (as you have) but wanted to see what the people moaning about others would come up with 

If we ALL STAYED IN, like good little people, as some forumers suggest then the virus might die out in this Country (eventually) but what happens when ONE person pops off to France for their duty frees? we all get locked up again!! You are talking about having to cure THE ENTIRE WORLD before we can get our freedoms back again.

The ONLY WAYS out of this are to wait until there is a vaccine OR some way that we are able to treat the ill and stop them from dying. That way my Mother (81) can come out of isolation and know that if she gets it she WON'T DIE.

Moaning about some idiot who went shopping for a tin or paint isn't going to help anything or anyone.


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## Swinglowandslow (Apr 2, 2020)

Robster59 said:



			Why does it matter?  Seriously? 

Because unless EVERYBODY obeys the rules the virus won't stop spreading, or at best will take longer to get under control.
The more these idiots come across other people (shopkeepers, staff at supermarkets, petrol stations, etc.) the more chance of them spreading the virus.
Because I and countless others will be restricted in being able to go out because other people don't believe the rules apply to them.
Because despite our best efforts, the chances of cross infection increase.  Parcels and letters we get delivered, putting in bins that have been emptied, getting groceries that these idiots might have been near.  All these could get contaminated.
Because businesses will be shut longer, some will go out of business, people will lose jobs, livelihoods, money, etc.
They're all I can think of off the top of my head but other people I'm sure could add to that list.
		
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I would like to but you have done an excellent job there. I think however, it will be wasted on him.


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Apr 2, 2020)

This pandemic is going to eradicate a significant percentage of the world's human population.
We all know that it's happened before.

Back then, we didn't have the science to learn anything from it. 

Now it remains to be seen if we have the character and will to learn anything from it.

But even as we experience this together, we're still going to be annoyed by the same things that annoy us in more ordinary circumstances.
Not having drawn my own blueprint, I'm unaware of any mechanism to change my settings.
It's my assumption that we're all in that circumstance.


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## JustOne (Apr 2, 2020)

Swinglowandslow said:



			I would like to but you have done an excellent job there. I think however, it will be wasted on him.
		
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Wasted on me?

No no, you go for it... would love to hear your theory of how we are all going to be back to normal in 2 weeks when people with asthma are already isolating for 12


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## Slime (Apr 2, 2020)

DaveR said:



			My G/F's best mate is still going to work as her workplace is still fully open. It's a factory making commemorative coins. *Not sure I would class that as essential* 

Click to expand...

It doesn't have to be.


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## Slime (Apr 2, 2020)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



*This pandemic is going to eradicate a significant percentage of the world's human population.*
We all know that it's happened before.
		
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What is your idea of a 'significant percentage', out of interest?
I bet it's different from mine!


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## bobmac (Apr 2, 2020)

Slime said:



			It doesn't have to be.
		
Click to expand...

Really?
If your work/job isn't essential, don't go to work


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## rulefan (Apr 2, 2020)

bobmac said:



			Really?
If your work/job isn't essential, don't go to work
		
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See post #77
Especially the Government statement:
*The government is not saying only people doing “essential” work can go to work. Anyone who cannot work from home can still go to work.*


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Apr 2, 2020)

Slime said:



			What is your idea of a 'significant percentage', out of interest?
I bet it's different from mine!
		
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If one person who can make excellent lasagna and braciole dies or died from this thing, that's an unacceptable percentage of the world's population.
My diet doesn't allow me to have it often, but I defend my cheat days like a bear defends her cubs. Or perhaps more fiercely than that.


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## DaveR (Apr 2, 2020)

rulefan said:



			See post #77
Especially the Government statement:
*The government is not saying only people doing “essential” work can go to work. Anyone who cannot work from home can still go to work.*

Click to expand...

So I can go to work to do some totally meaningless unnecessary job mingling with others but I can't drive 5 miles to a beauty spot for a walk. Try applying some common sense.


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## bobmac (Apr 2, 2020)

rulefan said:



			See post #77
Especially the Government statement:
*The government is not saying only people doing “essential” work can go to work. Anyone who cannot work from home can still go to work.*

Click to expand...

I know what the rules are, I'm not stupid and I don't need to be reminded of them.


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## SteveJay (Apr 2, 2020)

DaveR said:



			So I can go to work to do some totally meaningless unnecessary job mingling with others but I can't drive 5 miles to a beauty spot for a walk. Try applying some common sense.
		
Click to expand...

But that is exactly the advice being given. The alternative is to shut down every non essential business, let them fail and make all employees redundant.


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## bobmac (Apr 2, 2020)

There is a deadly virus out there killing people all over the world.
The more time you spend mixing with others, the more chance you will catch this deadly virus and possibly pass it on.
If you do not have to leave your house, don't


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## Slime (Apr 2, 2020)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			If one person who can make excellent lasagna and braciole dies or died from this thing, that's an unacceptable percentage of the world's population.
My diet doesn't allow me to have it often, but I defend my cheat days like a bear defends her cubs. Or perhaps more fiercely than that.
		
Click to expand...

That's a poor swerve.


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## Slime (Apr 2, 2020)

bobmac said:



			Really?
If your work/job isn't essential, don't go to work
		
Click to expand...

Yes, really.
People can still go to work whilst being able to self distance.


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## DaveR (Apr 2, 2020)

SteveJay said:



			But that is exactly the advice being given. The alternative is to shut down every non essential business, let them fail and make all employees redundant.
		
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Would you rather be redundant or dead?


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## Slime (Apr 2, 2020)

DaveR said:



			Would you rather be redundant or dead?
		
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I don't think that question really adds anything to this thread, do you?


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Apr 2, 2020)

Slime said:



			That's a poor swerve.
		
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I wasn't going for a swerve.
I was going for a brief moment of honesty.


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## bobmac (Apr 2, 2020)

Slime said:



			I don't think that question really adds anything to this thread, do you?
		
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1132 people in the UK would argue that it was extremely relevant to the conversation ....... if they hadn't died in the last 48 hours


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## bluewolf (Apr 2, 2020)

If I don’t go to work in my “non essential” job, I don’t get paid. Then I lose my job. Then my home. Etc etc etc. 
So, my choice is
1. Definitely lose my livelihood, home, car etc
2. Possibly lose my life. 
Hmmm. Cheers fellas. I appreciate the sterling advice. You’ve really helped there 😔


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## DaveR (Apr 2, 2020)

Slime said:



			I don't think that question really adds anything to this thread, do you?
		
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Yes I do otherwise I wouldn't have posted it. If you don't think it's relevant then stick your head in the sand.


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## DRW (Apr 2, 2020)

bobmac said:



			There is a deadly virus out there killing people all over the world.
The more time you spend mixing with others, the more chance you will catch this deadly virus and possibly pass it on.
If you do not have to leave your house, don't
		
Click to expand...

I'm interested, whats the end game or the solution that doesn't take years ? This is a worldwide deadly virus.

My mum who is totally in self isolation, could die before she gets out in the world or see us in person again, not much of a life. Same can be said for 80 year olds, as a large percentage die each year. and so on.

The choices that I listed are just pants for so many people, the end game or how we get there I am interested to hear what you think?(as I assume you realise just staying indoors will not get rid of the virus on its own)


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## DaveR (Apr 2, 2020)

bluewolf said:



			If I don’t go to work in my “non essential” job, I don’t get paid. Then I lose my job. Then my home. Etc etc etc.
So, my choice is
1. Definitely lose my livelihood, home, car etc
2. Possibly lose my life.
Hmmm. Cheers fellas. I appreciate the sterling advice. You’ve really helped there 😔
		
Click to expand...

That's an over dramatisation. There are furlough payments, mortgage holidays etc to help people through this.


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## bluewolf (Apr 2, 2020)

DaveR said:



			That's an over dramatisation. There are furlough payments, mortgage holidays etc to help people through this.
		
Click to expand...

My company hasn’t furloughed anyone. We are expected to be in work. I haven’t got an underlying condition that precludes me from going to work.
So, how exactly do you think I should go on? I could throw a sickie, but that’s lying because I’m not Ill. I could just not go in. Then I’d be sacked. What would you do?
Oh, and a 3 month mortgage holiday is no good as I wouldn’t be able to pay my mortgage, or the extra interest incurred after that period.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2020)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Both.
		
Click to expand...

And as much as I’d like to wholeheartedly agree with you, we’d both be wrong, see post #100.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2020)

DaveR said:



			That's an over dramatisation. There are furlough payments, mortgage holidays etc to help people through this.
		
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No more of an over dramatisation than some asking if people would rather be dead than redundant.

The extreme blinkered views at both ends of the spectrum on this are ridiculous, people keep saying it’s common sense then using outlandish points to prove their point of view.


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## bobmac (Apr 2, 2020)

DRW said:



			I'm interested, whats the end game or the solution that doesn't take years ? *This is a worldwide deadly virus.*

Click to expand...

I know. Please see my post you quoted.
I think you are wrong this situation will last years, if it did, there would be no-one left.
I believe the lockdowns around the world will start to affect the statistics and the numbers of cases will start to fall in the next 3-4 weeks.


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## DaveR (Apr 2, 2020)

bluewolf said:



			My company hasn’t furloughed anyone. We are expected to be in work. I haven’t got an underlying condition that precludes me from going to work.
So, how exactly do you think I should go on? I could throw a sickie, but that’s lying because I’m not Ill. I could just not go in. Then I’d be sacked. What would you do?
Oh, and a 3 month mortgage holiday is no good as I wouldn’t be able to pay my mortgage, or the extra interest incurred after that period.
		
Click to expand...

So what is it you do that is so essential?


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## bluewolf (Apr 2, 2020)

DaveR said:



			So what is it you do that is so essential?
		
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It isn’t essential. That’s the point. It doesn’t have to be essential. Stop using the word “essential”. You are perpetuating a myth that isn’t helping. 
No job has to be essential. You just mustn’t be able to do it from home. And I can’t. So in to work I go. 
I’m not sure how I can make this any clearer without hiring a plane and writing it in the sky!!!!!!!!


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## bluewolf (Apr 2, 2020)

If one more person tells me that the rules are clear and easy to understand for everyone I’m going to point them towards this bloody thread!!! 😂


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## Jamesbrown (Apr 2, 2020)

DaveR said:



			Would you rather be redundant or dead?
		
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It’s not Marburg or Ebola!  it kills about 1-2% of those that get it. Roughly two thirds of that would die this year anyway. People need to calm down.


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## bobmac (Apr 2, 2020)

Ok, what is it you do that is so important ?


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## bluewolf (Apr 2, 2020)

bobmac said:



			Ok, what is it you do that is so important ?
		
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Are you asking me?
if so then I absolutely give up. I mean, what’s the point. 
Fine, I fly plane loads of kittens to hospitals around the UK and then parachute them into the Corona wards to help people’s mental health. There you go. I’m as “essential” as they come!


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## pauljames87 (Apr 2, 2020)

bobmac said:



			Ok, what is it you do that is so important ?
		
Click to expand...

It's really not what people do that matters too much. If they can't work from home and their boss etc hasn't decided to close they have to decide between working or not depending on their personal situation.

Window cleaners can social distance as can gardeners .. they can't work from home . If they need to support their families should that be a problem?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2020)

bluewolf said:



			Are you asking me?
if so then I absolutely give up. I mean, what’s the point.
Fine, I fly plane loads of kittens to hospitals around the UK and then parachute them into the Corona wards to help people’s mental health. There you go. I’m as “essential” as they come!
		
Click to expand...

That’s fantastic, you deserve a medal.


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## upsidedown (Apr 2, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			It's really not what people do that matters too much. If they can't work from home and their boss etc hasn't decided to close they have to decide between working or not depending on their personal situation.

Window cleaners can social distance as can gardeners .. they can't work from home . If they need to support their families should that be a problem?
		
Click to expand...

Out today , mowed 7 customers lawns, had 3 cheery waves from indoors, didn't see others , even had a wave out from a side street by a patrolling police car


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## Fade and Die (Apr 2, 2020)

bobmac said:



			Ok, what is it you do that is so important ?
		
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He has repeatedly said it’s not “essential” in a national sense but it’s essential at a personal level and I can understand that, it’s essential he earns a wage, to pay for essential food and power and to keep the essential roof over his head.


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## bluewolf (Apr 2, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			That’s fantastic, you deserve a medal.

Click to expand...

Cheers mate. I’d just be grateful of a nationwide clap at 8pm every Friday. 😂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2020)

bluewolf said:



			Cheers mate. I’d just be grateful of a nationwide clap at 8pm every Friday. 😂
		
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Busy Friday, it’s bath night, will Saturday be ok?😇


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## pauljames87 (Apr 2, 2020)

upsidedown said:



			Out today , mowed 7 customers lawns, had 3 cheery waves from indoors, didn't see others , even had a wave out from a side street by a patrolling police car 

Click to expand...

I'm just going to switch the point slightly here or the angle

Say you can't afford to go unpaid 

But you feel window cleaning isn't essiental (please bear with ,, I mean no offence) so you decide Tesco need help I'm going to work there through this .. which the work is now "essiental" is your ability to feed your family suddenly deemed acceptable?


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## DaveR (Apr 2, 2020)

Jamesbrown said:



			It’s not Marburg or Ebola!  it kills about 1-2% of those that get it. Roughly two thirds of that would die this year anyway. People need to calm down.
		
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My stepson has it, not doing too well atm. His work colleague is on a ventilator in ICU, it's not looking too promising for him right now. You go on believing that it's no big deal. To me it's very real.


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## bobmac (Apr 2, 2020)

How much does the government pay out for people who are self employed to stay at home?


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## DRW (Apr 2, 2020)

bobmac said:



			I know. Please see my post you quoted.
I think you are wrong this situation will last years, if it did, there would be no-one left.
I believe the lockdowns around the world will start to affect the statistics and the numbers of cases will start to fall in the next 3-4 weeks.
		
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I agree the lockdown will have an effect without doubt and give hopefully some breathing time.

Why wouldn't it last years, the virus isn't suddenly going to die just because of a few people stay at home across the world. Its got out the bottle now. I see the best case as less just than a year with  vaccine or medicine that makes fighting the virus on 'equal terms', but then it would be months before we got vaccination ourselves or the medicine.

A vaccine is far from certain as well, think of something like measles or chickenpox or HIV they are still around. Smallpox is about the only virus that has gone forever.

There would be billions of people still left, as not everyone dies from the virus. Think are see it completely differently, which is fine, different opinions are great.

I hope you are right tho and in a few weeks, we will be talking about our round of golf shortly. All the best.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 2, 2020)

bobmac said:



			How much does the government pay out for people who are self employed to stay at home?
		
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Right now nothing. They will pay from June and they have said they can keep trading aswell .


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## upsidedown (Apr 2, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			I'm just going to switch the point slightly here or the angle

Say you can't afford to go unpaid

But you feel window cleaning isn't essiental (please bear with ,, I mean no offence) so you decide Tesco need help I'm going to work there through this .. which the work is now "essiental" is your ability to feed your family suddenly deemed acceptable?
		
Click to expand...

 None taken 
Not sure I get where you're going ?
Window cleaners and myself as a "gardener " have built up rounds and customers over many years and over 90% of mine are pensioners and very grateful for my visit as their garden gives them pleasure . As the guidelines are only work from home if you can't I will do so long as they allow and I can ensure i'm not putting myself and my customers at risk with the correct social distancing . I'm on a landscaping forum and we discussed this last week and the message we were getting from our domestic customers was please please come. Hope that helps


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## upsidedown (Apr 2, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Right now nothing. They will pay from June and they have said they can keep trading aswell .
		
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80% of last 3 years average profits I believe


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## bobmac (Apr 2, 2020)

DRW said:



			I hope you are right tho and in a few weeks, we will be talking about our round of golf shortly. All the best.
		
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I don't think that will happen.
The numbers will reduce but it will be months before any restrictions will be lifted in my opinion


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## pauljames87 (Apr 2, 2020)

upsidedown said:



			None taken
Not sure I get where you're going ?
Window cleaners and myself as a "gardener " have built up rounds and customers over many years and over 90% of mine are pensioners and very grateful for my visit as their garden gives them pleasure . As the guidelines are only work from home if you can't I will do so long as they allow and I can ensure i'm not putting myself and my customers at risk with the correct social distancing . I'm on a landscaping forum and we discussed this last week and the message we were getting from our domestic customers was please please come. Hope that helps
		
Click to expand...

Sorry I was just meaning that Tesco are hiring lots of people ... They are essiental workers .. so say you decide I don't feel right leaving house to clean windows . But you can leave the house to go work at Tesco's 

Was just trying to highlight either way your feeding your family best you can but one is deemed acceptable the other is shouted down as stay at home you selfish so and so


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## upsidedown (Apr 2, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Sorry I was just meaning that Tesco are hiring lots of people ... They are essiental workers .. so say you decide I don't feel right leaving house to clean windows . But you can leave the house to go work at Tesco's

Was just trying to highlight either way your feeding your family best you can but one is deemed acceptable the other is shouted down as stay at home you selfish so and so
		
Click to expand...

Ah got ya , yes absolutely


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## pauljames87 (Apr 2, 2020)

upsidedown said:



			Ah got ya , yes absolutely 

Click to expand...

Either way you can't take your work home lol following the guidelines


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## garyinderry (Apr 2, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Right now nothing. They will pay from June and they have said they can keep trading aswell .
		
Click to expand...


My mate has fallen through the cracks.  He left a job in an argos reshuffle and decided on a career change. Hes been a driving instructor now for a few months and has now had to stop working. He cant trade and hasnt been self employed long enough to qualify for the financial help.


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## JustOne (Apr 2, 2020)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			If one person who can make excellent lasagna and braciole dies or died from this thing, that's an unacceptable percentage of the world's population.
My diet doesn't allow me to have it often, but I defend my cheat days like a bear defends her cubs. Or perhaps more fiercely than that.
		
Click to expand...

So much so that you reduce the death of 1000's down to your tummy on cheat days?


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## JustOne (Apr 2, 2020)

garyinderry said:



			My mate has fallen through the cracks.  He left a job in an argos reshuffle and decided on a career change. Hes been a driving instructor now for a few months and has now had to stop working. He cant trade and hasnt been self employed long enough to qualify for the financial help.
		
Click to expand...

This is going to happen to a lot of people and it's sad and unfortunate.

There is supposed to be support for everyone, mortgage breaks, rent breaks, credit card breaks, universal credit,....enough for everyone to at least get thru this. As far as the government has said, no-one should reach rock bottom. I don't know what his options are other than to start with universal credit.


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## fundy (Apr 2, 2020)

garyinderry said:



			My mate has fallen through the cracks.  He left a job in an argos reshuffle and decided on a career change. Hes been a driving instructor now for a few months and has now had to stop working. He cant trade and hasnt been self employed long enough to qualify for the financial help.
		
Click to expand...


have had 5 different people reach out for help/advice that fall down the cracks and will get zero support (bar universal credit of less than a ton a week if they choose to go that route) and there must be hundreds of thousands in the situ  most dont have any reserves to be able to get through the short term either


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## garyinderry (Apr 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			have had 5 different people reach out for help/advice that fall down the cracks and will get zero support (bar universal credit of less than a ton a week if they choose to go that route) and there must be hundreds of thousands in the situ  most dont have any reserves to be able to get through the short term either 

Click to expand...


My mate is lucky enough as hes married to someone in a decent paid job.  Others wont be as fortunate.


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## fundy (Apr 2, 2020)

garyinderry said:



			My mate is lucky enough as hes married to someone in a decent paid job.  Others wont be as fortunate.
		
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Applies to me to some degree, I wont get any support yet wont be earning any money for a while (not to mention how much Ill be losing on the all but completed property project) thankfully mrs fundy still employed part time, at least until tomorrow when she finds out if she's being furloughed. We have some reserves at least, more than most i expect but depending on tomorrows news I will be looking at others way of bringing in a few quid pretty quickly


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## garyinderry (Apr 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			Applies to me to some degree, I wont get any support yet wont be earning any money for a while (not to mention how much Ill be losing on the all but completed property project) thankfully mrs fundy still employed part time, at least until tomorrow when she finds out if she's being furloughed. We have some reserves at least, more than most i expect but depending on tomorrows news I will be looking at others way of bringing in a few quid pretty quickly
		
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Good luck.  Hope things work out for you.


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## fundy (Apr 2, 2020)

garyinderry said:



			Good luck.  Hope things work out for you.
		
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Cheers, you too, we'll be fine. We always are until we arent


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## Slime (Apr 2, 2020)

DaveR said:



			Yes I do otherwise I wouldn't have posted it. If you don't think it's relevant then stick your head in the sand.
		
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You just made it sound like they were the only two choices, when quite clearly they are not.
No sand required.


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## User20204 (Apr 2, 2020)

The weekend is meant to heat up a fair bit, that'll be a right test for the restrictions and I for one will be breaking them. Two weeks now I've sat alone in my house, only driven for essential messages, spoken to no one I know physically other than via message. 

I'm going for a long drive somewhere and don't really care if I'm "breaking the rules"


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## Swinglowandslow (Apr 2, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			And as much as I’d like to wholeheartedly agree with you, we’d both be wrong, see post #100.
		
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I've looked at post 100 and it isn't a question as to what a NE police force officer has said. He may be legally correct, but I doubt it. In any event, I wasn't talking legally, I was talking morally.
I have always been of the view and I'm clear that Boris in his broadcast was saying that there are limits on the occasions for going out from home.
Shops for essentials, medicine etc etc. Work from home if you can .And exercise. 
It did not say driving to go somewhere you like to exercise yourself or the dog.
So, to my mind, driving unnecessarily is wrong.This is why.
It is a what if, admittedly, but relevant in these circumstances. If someone had an accident driving , look what happens. Ambulance attends ( they are in short supply) or Police or at the least there is connection with others. Everything that the advice is trying to avoid. And if that happens, and it's wrong that it should happen, whose fault is it?  The person who was driving unnecessarily.
If he had walked himself or his dog from home, there wouldn't be any contact.
That to me is the unassailable argument.
That is what the N E Police should realise, and if what you report is accurate then they are foolish in giving such advice as they did.

As for the discussion re going to work. The advice said work from home if you can. That was it. If you can't it's obvious that you have to have an income. If furloughing isn't being given to you then you have to house, feed a family, then you need to stay at work.
I am not well up on whether firms are being bloody minded in not furloughing, or selfish, or breaking the law. I don't know if furloughing is mandatory.
Whatever, you cannot expect someone not to have an income.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2020)

Swinglowandslow said:



			I've looked at post 100 and it isn't a question as to what a NE police force officer has said. He may be legally correct, but I doubt it. In any event, I wasn't talking legally, I was talking morally.
I have always been of the view and I'm clear that Boris in his broadcast was saying that there are limits on the occasions for going out from home.
Shops for essentials, medicine etc etc. Work from home if you can .And exercise.
It did not say driving to go somewhere you like to exercise yourself or the dog.
So, to my mind, driving unnecessarily is wrong.This is why.
It is a what if, admittedly, but relevant in these circumstances. If someone had an accident driving , look what happens. Ambulance attends ( they are in short supply) or Police or at the least there is connection with others. Everything that the advice is trying to avoid. And if that happens, and it's wrong that it should happen, whose fault is it?  The person who was driving unnecessarily.
If he had walked himself or his dog from home, there wouldn't be any contact.
That to me is the unassailable argument.
That is what the N E Police should realise, and if what you report is accurate then they are foolish in giving such advice as they did.

As for the discussion re going to work. The advice said work from home if you can. That was it. If you can't it's obvious that you have to have an income. If furloughing isn't being given to you then you have to house, feed a family, then you need to stay at work.
I am not well up on whether firms are being bloody minded in not furloughing, or selfish, or breaking the law. I don't know if furloughing is mandatory.
Whatever, you cannot expect someone not to have an income.
		
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And as I put in my answer I agree with you, but that doesn’t make us right if people in positions of power, even tonight on QT you had the Health Secretary saying people can drive a “short distance” to go for a walk! What’s a short distance for godsake, are making these statements and causing confusion.

It completely undermines what boris said.

I’m agreeing with you here, but I don’t believe it’s up to us to condemn those that do it, as in essence they are doing “nothing wrong”


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## Hobbit (Apr 2, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			And as I put in my answer I agree with you, but that doesn’t make us right if people in positions of power, even tonight on QT you had the Health Secretary saying people can drive a “short distance” to go for a walk! What’s a short distance for godsake, are making these statements and causing confusion.

It completely undermines what boris said.

I’m agreeing with you here, but I don’t believe it’s up to us to condemn those that do it, as in essence they are doing “nothing wrong”
		
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I don't know which way I am on what is the essence and what is morally right. I don't know if "essence" is what is a moral is, and the legal question is something else altogether.

I can't remember who said in an earlier post, it might have been Tashy in one of his Mexican rambles, something along the lines of isolation breaks the chain of infection. Maybe that's the difference between a technicality and a physical reality. Where the morals and legality is on that is for others to decide.


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## elliottlale (Apr 2, 2020)

after having read this cheery post, im now ecstatic to be joining my new ship (Royal Navy) in the coming days. id like to see 180 crew maintain 2m separation on a vessel of 133m in length haha.


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## elliottlale (Apr 2, 2020)

HappyHacker1 said:



			The weekend is meant to heat up a fair bit, that'll be a right test for the restrictions and I for one will be breaking them. Two weeks now I've sat alone in my house, only driven for essential messages, spoken to no one I know physically other than via message.

I'm going for a long drive somewhere and don't really care if I'm "breaking the rules"
		
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and people like you are exactly what is wrong with this country


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## rulefan (Apr 2, 2020)

upsidedown said:



			80% of last 3 years average profits I believe
		
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With a number of significant exceptions


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## User20204 (Apr 2, 2020)

elliottlale said:



			and people like you are exactly what is wrong with this country
		
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Feel better now ?


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## elliottlale (Apr 2, 2020)

HappyHacker1 said:



			Feel better now ?
		
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100% thank you


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## Hobbit (Apr 2, 2020)

elliottlale said:



			and people like you are exactly what is wrong with this country
		
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Here's a thought. Maybe he put up that post to get exactly the reaction you gave him. Let's face it, it is pretty much a trolling for an argument post. Insignificant and hardly worth the effort of a reply. You gave him the attention he sought?


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## Fromtherough (Apr 2, 2020)

HappyHacker1 said:



			The weekend is meant to heat up a fair bit, that'll be a right test for the restrictions and I for one will be breaking them. Two weeks now I've sat alone in my house, only driven for essential messages, spoken to no one I know physically other than via message. 

I'm going for a long drive somewhere and don't really care if I'm "breaking the rules"
		
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I know you’re on a wind up, but not sure how a drive will curb your loneliness. You do make a good point though that these times will be even tougher for those living alone.


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## User20204 (Apr 2, 2020)

Fromtherough said:



			I know you’re on a wind up, but not sure how a drive will curb your loneliness. You do make a good point though that these times will be even tougher for those living alone.
		
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If you know so much, you should read between the lines then.


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## Fromtherough (Apr 2, 2020)

HappyHacker1 said:



			If you know so much, you should read between the lines then.
		
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Hopefully this helps: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/stress-anxiety-depression/feeling-lonely/


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## JustOne (Apr 3, 2020)

elliottlale said:



			and people like you are exactly what is wrong with this country
		
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Something I have thought about for a long time, and (on a personal level) find interesting. If you asked everyone in the Country to paint their house blue SOMEONE would paint theirs red, they'd probably put it on Instagram too and cause a mini revolt and there would be lots of red houses, and pink ones, maybe even some green. Put a 70mph speed limit on a road and someone will do 100mph, tell everyone they have to be in bed by 10 and someone will stay up til midnight. If something is not a LAW then many people will do exactly what they want to do even if the general concensus is not in their favour. Even things that ARE law obviously get broken. It's clearly the same on the forum (any forum), speak up and say 100M people will die and someone else will say only 5,000 and both parties will try to justify their arguement, some arguements put forward will be plain stupid, just like the red house, but everyone is entitled to do (and say) whatever they want. You'll get someone who posts something amazing, profound or revolutionary and then BillyBob Nomates comes along and says "You spelt THERE wrong!" simply to undermine their opinion. When you get on your ship all of these types are the people you are representing/potentially fighting for,.. and some of the knobby ones will be on your ship!

As Hobbit says above, maybe you gave him the attention he sought, indeed the guy on instagram who paints his house red will be looking for some attention, the problem is PEOPLE GIVE IT TO THEM, just like those of us moaning about someone buying a tin of paint or lads walking around in groups of 10. If we just focused on what WE are up to ourselves and were satisfied with ourselves, indeed HAPPY as individuals, then we perhaps wouldn't care less... but we're a miserable lot who are WELL GUTTED that someone else can drive their car 5 miles to walk their dog!


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## SteveJay (Apr 3, 2020)

JustOne said:



			Something I have thought about for a long time, and (on a personal level) find interesting. If you asked everyone in the Country to paint their house blue SOMEONE would paint theirs red, they'd probably put it on Instagram too and cause a mini revolt and there would be lots of red houses, and pink ones, maybe even some green. Put a 70mph speed limit on a road and someone will do 100mph, tell everyone they have to be in bed by 10 and someone will stay up til midnight. If something is not a LAW then many people will do exactly what they want to do even if the general concensus is not in their favour. Even things that ARE law obviously get broken. It's clearly the same on the forum (any forum), speak up and say 100M people will die and someone else will say only 5,000 and both parties will try to justify their arguement, some arguements put forward will be plain stupid, just like the red house, but everyone is entitled to do (and say) whatever they want. You'll get someone who posts something amazing, profound or revolutionary and then BillyBob Nomates comes along and says "You spelt THERE wrong!" simply to undermine their opinion. When you get on your ship all of these types are the people you are representing/potentially fighting for,.. and some of the knobby ones will be on your ship!

As Hobbit says above, maybe you gave him the attention he sought, indeed the guy on instagram who paints his house red will be looking for some attention, the problem is PEOPLE GIVE IT TO THEM, just like those of us moaning about someone buying a tin of paint or lads walking around in groups of 10. If we just focused on what WE are up to ourselves and were satisfied with ourselves, indeed HAPPY as individuals, then we perhaps wouldn't care less... but we're a miserable lot who are WELL GUTTED that someone else can drive their car 5 miles to walk their dog!


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I agree with most of what you have said, but the big difference currently is that unlike some of your examples, where people break the rules it is only them or their immediate family/contacts that are affected, today those flaunting the rules potentially impact hundreds of others given how this virus spreads. That fear is maybe why so many on social media are angry with those seen to be ignoring the restrictions.


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## JustOne (Apr 3, 2020)

SteveJay said:



			unlike some of your examples, where people break the rules it is only them or their immediate family/contacts that are affected, today those flaunting the rules potentially impact hundreds of others given how this virus spreads. That fear is maybe why so many on social media are angry with those seen to be ignoring the restrictions.
		
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I agree and I am sure there are a lot of people who are genuinely fearful (blue houses) some who really aren't scared at all (red houses) and people like me who are somewhere in the middle (pink house).

Given the above... (and with somewhat flippant examples..)
Those that are fearful SHOULD STAY IN, those in the middle should go buy a tin of paint whilst socially distancing and those that simply aren't scared should go have a house party.
My Mother (81) has to stay in as she will probably die if she gets it, I will go to work later and possibly be exposed and some teenager will be off to lick public toilet seats.

So what of it? Well for sure NO ONE wants to die but we all see the risk differently. Just because you (or others) are scared doesn't mean that everyone has to be. If we all had to behave scared NO ONE would be going to work, there would be no nurses, or shops open, water and electric supplies would have stopped already, no one would be there to answer phones for all those mortgage holidays... and there would be no delivery drivers for our precious Amazon parcels. However, when those people DRIVE to work we still need some policemen to make sure they are not breaking the law on the roads - whilst all those boxed into their houses will moan about how busy the roads still are.

Obviously it's a no win (ongoing) situation because someone will always paint their house differently to the norm, but it's certainly interesting to watch unfold and to comment on.

If there is any real conversation to be had it should be about the end game, what is it and how are we going to get there.
My personal interpretation of what we are seeing is HERD IMMUNITY ..... *IN STAGES*

We can't just go for all out one-time herd immunity as it would completely overwhelm the NHS so what we have to do is stagger the stages to slow the virus. We also can't just outright and say that we all have to get the virus because that will scare the crap out of the nation and cause widespread panic but if you protect the vunerable (tick) leave the schools a little bit too long (tick) isolate the masses (tick) allow some freedom (tick) then you are allowing the virus to continue albeit slowly, herd immunity... slowed down as much as possible whilst you wait to see if you can find a prevention/cure.

There is NO WAY we can all just hide in our houses, what if they don't find a prevention/cure for a year? we need SOME people to have had it just to keep the country ticking over and yes that means that some people will die unnecessarily before their time - this is a risk that the government for sure is taking. You can have SOME people die and the masses will carry on as normal but if the body count gets too high it will cause mass panic (social breakdown). Right now nearly 3,000 in this Country and we are still moaning about tins of paint and speed traps, I wonder what (if any) the tipping point is.


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## Old Skier (Apr 3, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Right now nothing. They will pay from June and they have said they can keep trading aswell .
		
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And you can claim UC I believe and get an advance of pay


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## Old Skier (Apr 3, 2020)

fundy said:



			have had 5 different people reach out for help/advice that fall down the cracks and will get zero support (bar universal credit of less than a ton a week if they choose to go that route) and there must be hundreds of thousands in the situ  most dont have any reserves to be able to get through the short term either 

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Most local supermarkets are advatising for drivers and shelf stackers, might not be great but it must be better than nothing.


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Apr 3, 2020)

JustOne said:



			So much so that you reduce the death of 1000's down to your tummy on cheat days? 

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Not quite that much, I suppose.


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## Fish (Apr 5, 2020)

How did I miss this thread, all the trolls out in force in here also. 

But just as Bluesolf states, reading through it is comedy gold, and free 😂😳😳


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