# Cracks in the ground



## louise_a (Jul 6, 2018)

Due to the dry conditions we have some shocking cracks opening up one in particular was as deep as a ball.

I was at another local club and noticed a notice stating free relief if your ball is on a crack, is this allowed, it is abnormal ground condition but not one listed in the rules.

It would certainly make sense to allow relief


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## drdel (Jul 6, 2018)

It certainly qualifies as "abnormal" - it ain't GUR etc. so I can't see why a local rule would be wrong.


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## duncan mackie (Jul 6, 2018)

louise_a said:



			Due to the dry conditions we have some shocking cracks opening up one in particular was as deep as a ball.

I was at another local club and noticed a notice stating free relief if your ball is on a crack, is this allowed, it is abnormal ground condition but not one listed in the rules.

It would certainly make sense to allow relief
		
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The problem with that definition as posTed is the definition of cracking ie you would basically be able to take relief at any time!

In principle it's a permitted LR situation but there needs to be some clarification. Don't have easy access to the rules for a few days but I thought there was a wording around this somewhere - probably in the appendix on ground conditions and LRs


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## jim8flog (Jul 6, 2018)

[h=2]25/12[/h]   [h=4]Cracks in Earth[/h]   Q.Are cracks in the earth which occur in hot and dry conditions ground under repair? Do the Rules of Golf provide relief?


A.No. However, a player whose ball is in a large crack would be justified in requesting the Committee to declare the crack to be ground under repair, and the Committee would be justified in doing so.

I am presuming from this decision that a club would not be able to have a general local rule but would be able to give relief in specific locations.


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## louise_a (Jul 6, 2018)

jim8flog said:



			[h=2]25/12[/h]   [h=4]Cracks in Earth[/h]   Q.Are cracks in the earth which occur in hot and dry conditions ground under repair? Do the Rules of Golf provide relief?


A.No. However, a player whose ball is in a large crack would be justified in requesting the Committee to declare the crack to be ground under repair, and the Committee would be justified in doing so.

I am presuming from this decision that a club would not be able to have a general local rule but would be able to give relief in specific locations.
		
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This is very big job when they are appearing all over the course.


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## drdel (Jul 6, 2018)

I know its no longer fashionable but 'common sense' would surely say that if the crack is sufficient that a ball is either stopped by or sits with (say 25%) a 'crack' then that is abnormal.

The real-world probability of it occurring would be pretty low so I can't see that giving relief would be likely to influence scores in a major way.


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## duncan mackie (Jul 6, 2018)

jim8flog said:



			[h=2]25/12[/h]   [h=4]Cracks in Earth[/h]   Q.Are cracks in the earth which occur in hot and dry conditions ground under repair? Do the Rules of Golf provide relief?


A.No. However, a player whose ball is in a large crack would be justified in requesting the Committee to declare the crack to be ground under repair, and the Committee would be justified in doing so.

I am presuming from this decision that a club would not be able to have a general local rule but would be able to give relief in specific locations.
		
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 Cheers Jim, that's one thing I was thinking about.

My interpretation of this, as posted above, is that the committee may make a LR permitting relief (from such cracks) providing that they are able to define them in a manner that meets the principle within the decision. The last post above includes what I would consider an appropriate attempt. Something along the lines of the ball sitting in a crack of more than 1/2" (13mm) width at that point.


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## OnTour (Jul 8, 2018)

One day they might get the rules right, like greens if your in the fairway you should be able at all times to lift clean and place crack divot or bad lie. anything else play it as it lies. 
unrepaired pitch marks and on the fringe again a penalty for the person who hasn't done anything wrong chipping onto the green from a fairway lie. backwards thinking. 


common sense golf rules.


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## pendodave (Jul 8, 2018)

OnTour said:



			One day they might get the rules right, like greens if your in the fairway you should be able at all times to lift clean and place crack divot or bad lie. anything else play it as it lies. 
unrepaired pitch marks and on the fringe again a penalty for the person who hasn't done anything wrong chipping onto the green from a fairway lie. backwards thinking. 


common sense golf rules.
		
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hmmm.. not sure about this. Golf isn't fair, part of the game is (within reason) the ability to overcome adversity.

As for the cracks, would the local rule be through the green or just on close mown areas?


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## Foxholer (Jul 8, 2018)

OnTour said:



			One day they might get the rules right, like greens if your in the fairway you should be able at all times to lift clean and place crack divot or bad lie. anything else play it as it lies. 
unrepaired pitch marks and on the fringe again a penalty for the person who hasn't done anything wrong chipping onto the green from a fairway lie. backwards thinking. 


common sense golf rules.
		
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Rules are pretty much fine as they are!

In many ways, 'Golf' can be considered a reflection of real life and the character of the person who may be disadvantaged by their ball ending up randomly in a poor situation. Part of the game (and of many other sports, but golf seems more 'cerebral' than others) is how the player reacts to such situations. Like in life, those that shrug it off and get on with the rest of the round are more likely to be successful than those that let a particular event fester!

So instead of swearing and letting a bad situation ruin your round, just let it wash over you and make the best of it - just as you should in real life!


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 8, 2018)

My club has deemed visible cracks to be AGC for the duration of summer , or until they tell us otherwise.
Very sensible decision , the games hard enough.


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## jim8flog (Jul 9, 2018)

clubchamp98 said:



			My club has deemed visible cracks to be AGC for the duration of summer , or until they tell us otherwise.
Very sensible decision , the games hard enough.
		
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This part of the 'problem' with some clubs. They do not first check the rule book to see if the local rule they wish to have is allowed.

It is how I came to be on the committee, where I play, in the first place. Various committees through the years kept introducing Local Rules which the R&A said they could not have and I kept bringing the appropriate decision to their attention.

It is not so much about common sense but making sure that wherever you play the club is using the same rule book.


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## drdel (Jul 9, 2018)

Foxholer said:



			Rules are pretty much fine as they are!

In many ways, 'Golf' can be considered a reflection of real life and the character of the person who may be disadvantaged by their ball ending up randomly in a poor situation. Part of the game (and of many other sports, but golf seems more 'cerebral' than others) is how the player reacts to such situations. Like in life, those that shrug it off and get on with the rest of the round are more likely to be successful than those that let a particular event fester!

So instead of swearing and letting a bad situation ruin your round, just let it wash over you and make the best of it - just as you should in real life!
		
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Odd that the worldwide courses used by the PGA are all so meticulously maintained to give perfect greens and manicure fairways.

They should save their cash and reduce their carbon footprint and we'll all happily 'play the ball as it lies' and enjoy and smile at the challenge (luck) that divots, stones, natural humps and hollows provide.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 9, 2018)

jim8flog said:



			This part of the 'problem' with some clubs. They do not first check the rule book to see if the local rule they wish to have is allowed.

It is how I came to be on the committee, where I play, in the first place. Various committees through the years kept introducing Local Rules which the R&A said they could not have and I kept bringing the appropriate decision to their attention.

It is not so much about common sense but making sure that wherever you play the club is using the same rule book.
		
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but surely a local rule is just that LOCAL.
Unless the R&A come and inspect every situation you canâ€™t have one rule for all situations.
I am sure the club have checked the legality of this,
Maybe my interpretation was not clear enough my apologies if so.


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## louise_a (Jul 10, 2018)

After consultation with the County, we do now have a specific local rule to cover these cracks.


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## duncan mackie (Jul 10, 2018)

clubchamp98 said:



			but surely a local rule is just that LOCAL.
Unless the R&A come and inspect every situation you canâ€™t have one rule for all situations.
I am sure the club have checked the legality of this,
Maybe my interpretation was not clear enough my apologies if so.
		
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They don't inspect the situation, they inspect the wording of the proposed LR against the rules and principles.

That crack A is worthy of relief, but not crack B is a matter for the committee to decide, and they then need to produce a LR that enables all players to take the same relief (as each other) for any situation they find themselves in (principle).

Specifically dealing with cracks, 25-12 already quoted covers the rule aspect ie you cannot designate all cracks as GUR but you may provide relief for players who find their ball in a large crack.

You now decide on a LR appropriate to your course and the current conditions that takes into account the rule and the principle and pass it by the R&A for approval (unless there's an approved OR wording that you wish youse as it is.) Simple process to do this now - used to be a phone call that could always get confusing!

I'm really glad you have such confidence in your committee - I only have to look at the LRs on cards for courses I visit to have very little such confidence (and that's before reading posts on here!)


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## duncan mackie (Jul 10, 2018)

louise_a said:



			After consultation with the County, we do now have a specific local rule to cover these cracks.
		
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Would be useful to see the approved wording Louise (famous last words....)


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 10, 2018)

duncan mackie said:



			They don't inspect the situation, they inspect the wording of the proposed LR against the rules and principles.

That crack A is worthy of relief, but not crack B is a matter for the committee to decide, and they then need to produce a LR that enables all players to take the same relief (as each other) for any situation they find themselves in (principle).

Specifically dealing with cracks, 25-12 already quoted covers the rule aspect ie you cannot designate all cracks as GUR but you may provide relief for players who find their ball in a large crack.

You now decide on a LR appropriate to your course and the current conditions that takes into account the rule and the principle and pass it by the R&A for approval (unless there's an approved OR wording that you wish youse as it is.) Simple process to do this now - used to be a phone call that could always get confusing!

I'm really glad you have such confidence in your committee - I only have to look at the LRs on cards for courses I visit to have very little such confidence (and that's before reading posts on here!)
		
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They have deemed it GUR relief under rule 25-1.
only relief for the ball in crack through the green ,not your stance or swing.
Would that be correct.


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## rosecott (Jul 10, 2018)

One man's crack, another man's â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦..


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## duncan mackie (Jul 10, 2018)

clubchamp98 said:



			They have deemed it GUR relief under rule 25-1.
only relief for the ball in crack through the green ,not your stance or swing.
Would that be correct.
		
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Playing devils advocate.....what you have written would seem to suggest that with the ball sitting on pretty much any tiny crack you may take relief (that if the area had a lot of cracks could enable you to move the ball a huge distance when it lands on a new crack when dropped each time) but that if the ball (amazingly) wasn't on a crack, but  there was an 8" crack  preventing you from taking your stance, it's tough luck.

As to whether it's 'correct'; as presented i would suggest that 25-12 says that such a worded LR isn't acceptable. Suitably defining 'in crack and 'crack' would be required.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 10, 2018)

duncan mackie said:



			Playing devils advocate.....what you have written would seem to suggest that with the ball sitting on pretty much any tiny crack you may take relief (that if the area had a lot of cracks could enable you to move the ball a huge distance when it lands on a new crack when dropped each time) but that if the ball (amazingly) wasn't on a crack, but  there was an 8" crack  preventing you from taking your stance, it's tough luck.

As to whether it's 'correct'; as presented i would suggest that 25-12 says that such a worded LR isn't acceptable. Suitably defining 'in crack and 'crack' would be required.
		
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Jeez â€œ In crack and crackâ€ not sure what the difference is 

All I know is if your ball is in a crack thatâ€™s not usually there and has been caused by the hot spell you get a drop!

npr is next to the crack so drop twice if it rolls into another one then place next to said crack .
If not in crack play as it lies!
stance is not included itâ€™s tough.

That seems simple enough for most players to grasp.

But as a devils advocate I wouldnâ€™t fancy my chances against you in court.


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## duncan mackie (Jul 11, 2018)

clubchamp98 said:



			Jeez â€œ In crack and crackâ€ not sure what the difference is 

npr is next to the crack so drop twice if it rolls into another one then place next to said crack .
If not in crack play as it lies!
stance is not included itâ€™s tough.
		
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Apologies that autocorrect changed the punctuation - should have read 'in crack' and 'crack' to indicate the need to define what is a crack and what constitutes being in one (in order that everyone playing would interpret the rule the same for any situation.

Interesting that you can be so dismissive over the large crack that would seriously interfere with a players stroke given that your original premise related to the need for relief from these cracks. Having a rule that provides relief that isn't required but denies relief that is doesn't seem very clever to me.

Don't understand why you would place the ball that rolled into a different crack? Same crack yes, but different crack and you will be taking relief under the rule again (so a valid conclusion could already be nearly 6 club lengths from where you started!).


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## jim8flog (Jul 11, 2018)

duncan mackie said:



			I'm really glad you have such confidence in your committee - I only have to look at the LRs on cards for courses I visit to have very little such confidence (and that's before reading posts on here!)
		
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I would second that comment.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 11, 2018)

duncan mackie said:



			Apologies that autocorrect changed the punctuation - should have read 'in crack' and 'crack' to indicate the need to define what is a crack and what constitutes being in one (in order that everyone playing would interpret the rule the same for any situation.

Interesting that you can be so dismissive over the large crack that would seriously interfere with a players stroke given that your original premise related to the need for relief from these cracks. Having a rule that provides relief that isn't required but denies relief that is doesn't seem very clever to me.

Don't understand why you would place the ball that rolled into a different crack? Same crack yes, but different crack and you will be taking relief under the rule again (so a valid conclusion could already be nearly 6 club lengths from where you started!).
		
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Not dismissive just stating what the email said!

Most of the cracks are like a maze they are all interconnected so itâ€™s the same crack .
I would imagine itâ€™s like any other drop if you drop and donâ€™t get relief you drop again , if still in crack you place where the ball hits the ground.

This is where the rules start to get complicated and common sense goes out the window.

I do agree and did ask why no relief for stance but havnt had a reply.


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## jim8flog (Jul 12, 2018)

The 'trouble' is that when someone knows the rules fairly thoroughly they can get a long way from the original problem either by design or accident.

e.g. there is an area with a lot of rabbit holes, the rules do allow you to treat the general area of the rabbit holes as abnormal ground conditions but you take relief from the one you are in or your stance is affected by, one could therefore by selectively dropping the ball in another rabbit hole move a long way from where you were originally and in a direction that best suits you.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 13, 2018)

jim8flog said:



			The 'trouble' is that when someone knows the rules fairly thoroughly they can get a long way from the original problem either by design or accident.

e.g. there is an area with a lot of rabbit holes, the rules do allow you to treat the general area of the rabbit holes as abnormal ground conditions but you take relief from the one you are in or your stance is affected by, one could therefore by selectively dropping the ball in another rabbit hole move a long way from where you were originally and in a direction that best suits you.
		
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Yes I see your point , but I think this is the reason for the â€œball only relief from crackâ€ 
If you only get relief for your ball then you only need a small area to drop.
If your stance is on a crack itâ€™s just bad luck.

This would stop someone taking advantage by redropping several times to get a better line.  
Just seems common sense!


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## duncan mackie (Jul 13, 2018)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I see your point , but I think this is the reason for the â€œball only relief from crackâ€ 
If you only get relief for your ball then you only need a small area to drop.
If your stance is on a crack itâ€™s just bad luck.

This would stop someone taking advantage by redropping several times to get a better line.  
Just seems common sense!
		
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You get a whole clublength for the drop, and potentially up to another 2 of roll.....loads of opportunity to find another crack and do it again (if you need to get clear of a tree etc etc).

If everybodies concept of common sense was identical we wouldn't need the rules at all. One players concept would involve playing it as it lies from a 2mm crack - another would just as obviously move the ball to take a distant tree a little more out of play. Both would claim their action were consistent with common sense.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 13, 2018)

when is a crack not a crack? - when strips of turf in an area of new turf shrink and separate during dry weather? (and not identified as GUR)  And there will be other such scenarios never mind those always present courtesy of mother nature.

Mind you - I do recall playing a course where some fairways had cracked very badly during an extended period of dry weather and the club had defined what constituted 'a ball in a crack' for getting relief.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 13, 2018)

duncan mackie said:



			You get a whole clublength for the drop, and potentially up to another 2 of roll.....loads of opportunity to find another crack and do it again (if you need to get clear of a tree etc etc).

If everybodies concept of common sense was identical we wouldn't need the rules at all. One players concept would involve playing it as it lies from a 2mm crack - another would just as obviously move the ball to take a distant tree a little more out of play. Both would claim their action were consistent with common sense.
		
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Well they would both be right .If a player elects to play from a crack thatâ€™s his choice.

My input was just imagine it was a preferred lie from a crack 6â€ either side .

Your fellow competitors have to agree its a crack.

But itâ€™s probably against some rule.

But it would stop players taking advantage.


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## louise_a (Jul 14, 2018)

This is the full wording of our notice.

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Temporary Local Rule providing relief from 'slits, cracks or machine made grooves' through the green*

A local rule has been introduced, with immediate effect, concerning the slits and cracks that have opened  up on the course, caused by the excessively dry conditions we are currently experiencing. Your playing partners should agree that relief can be taken before you proceed to take relief without penalty.

Through the green where a ball is lying in a slit or groove, the player must lift and drop it, without penalty, within one club-length of and not nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief. The nearest point of relief must not be in a hazard or on a putting green. When the ball is dropped within one club length of the nearest point of relief it must first strike the course at a spot that avoids interference by the condition an is not in a hazard and not on a putting green.

This rule will remain in effect until circumstances allow its withdrawal.


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## duncan mackie (Jul 14, 2018)

louise_a said:



			This is the full wording of our notice.

*
Temporary Local Rule providing relief from 'slits, cracks or machine made grooves' through the green*

A local rule has been introduced, with immediate effect, concerning the slits and cracks that have opened  up on the course, caused by the excessively dry conditions we are currently experiencing. Your playing partners should agree that relief can be taken before you proceed to take relief without penalty.

Through the green where a ball is lying in a slit or groove, the player must lift and drop it, without penalty, within one club-length of and not nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief. The nearest point of relief must not be in a hazard or on a putting green. When the ball is dropped within one club length of the nearest point of relief it must first strike the course at a spot that avoids interference by the condition an is not in a hazard and not on a putting green.

This rule will remain in effect until circumstances allow its withdrawal.
		
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Thank you for posting. I must admit to being surprised that it has been permitted with that particular wording  but it would only take the addition of one word, large, to come into line with relevant decision.
The other bit is in making fellow competitors act for the committee - not good. The rules already cover this properly (you decide, generally if there is slight doubt you check with fellow competitors and, if you disagree with them you either refer direct to the committee or via 3-3. That wording changes this and you are stuck with their opinion - I'm guessing this isn't intended and that they are trying to emphasise that you should just agree and get on with it. Good luck if there is an incident &#129300;


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## louise_a (Jul 14, 2018)

I can only assume that the wording was approved/recommended by the county.


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## rosecott (Jul 15, 2018)

louise_a said:



			I can only assume that the wording was approved/recommended by the county.
		
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Even the use of "playing partners"?


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## bobmac (Jul 15, 2018)

rosecott said:



			Even the use of "playing partners"?
		
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'Playing partners' wasn't in the rule quoted


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## rulefan (Jul 17, 2018)

louise_a said:



			After consultation with the County, we do now have a specific local rule to cover these cracks.
		
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Does it include the proviso that relief is not available for stance alone? This is the normal  way.

Incidentally, the inclusion of the reference to a playing partner would make it non-conforming. I'm also surprised that the county would include such a term in their recommendation although it's not in the LR wording.


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