# Rules question



## evahakool (Aug 15, 2011)

Can anyone tell me what penalty you would get if you hit leaves on a tree on your backswing, It wasant a practice swing but I stopped the swing when I hit the leaves.


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## CliveW (Aug 15, 2011)

No penalty. Only if you break branch/cause leaves to drop during a practice swing is it a two stroke penalty (Stroke play)or loss of hole (Match play).


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## viscount17 (Aug 15, 2011)

no penalty if you continue the swing to strike the ball - stopping the swing implies there was no intent so you could incur a penalty. 
on a practice swing it gets trickier - another bad rule - as you need to make a subjective decision whether the 'lie' has been improved. so two leaves out of 100, theoretically should be no penalty but someone else may think otherwise.


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## palindromicbob (Aug 15, 2011)

If it is deemed as improving you area of intended swing then penalty is Match-play loss of hole, Stroke play - 2 strokes.
Rule 13-2


Hitting leaves may not always improve the area of intended swing especially when the main obstruction is a branch. Decision 13-2/22 

 If in doubt consult with the committee or apply the penalty.


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## rosecott (Aug 15, 2011)

Can anyone tell me what penalty you would get if you hit leaves on a tree on your backswing, It wasant a practice swing but I stopped the swing when I hit the leaves.
		
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How do you differentiate between a practice swing and a stopped swing?


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## Fyldewhite (Aug 15, 2011)

This one of the biggest urban myths. You may be penalised but it depends if you improve your intended swing or not. There is a decision that covers it but basically if there's (say) one big leaf or twig on your backswing and you knock it off with you practice swing then it's a certain penalty. If there is a branch with a hundred leaves on and you knock off a couple then probably no penalty. In between is a bit of a grey area but I'd say that so long as you don't hack away the vegetation to give yourself an advantage then usually you would be OK. If there's just a couple of branches/leaves in your way then be very careful.

Edit:  Sorry misread op. Above only applies to practice swing. You can do what you like in the actual stroke as long as you don't inprove things in "fairly taking your stance".


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## evahakool (Aug 15, 2011)

Bit confused now, as I said it wasnt a practice swing I did intend to hit the ball but when I felt my club hitting the leaves I stopped the swing,no idea if any leaves fell off.

My understanding of this rule is that if you hit some leaves and you finish you swing then there is no penalty,but if you stop your swing you get  a 2 stoke penalty.

But not sure if this is correct.


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## palindromicbob (Aug 15, 2011)

This one of the biggest urban myths. You may be penalised but it depends if you improve your intended swing or not. There is a decision that covers it but basically if there's (say) one big leaf or twig on your backswing and you knock it off with you practice swing then it's a certain penalty. If there is a branch with a hundred leaves on and you knock off a couple then probably no penalty. In between is a bit of a grey area but I'd say that so long as you don't hack away the vegetation to give yourself an advantage then usually you would be OK. If there's just a couple of branches/leaves in your way then be very careful.

Edit:  Sorry misread op. Above only applies to practice swing. You can do what you like in the actual stroke as long as you don't inprove things in "fairly taking your stance".
		
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You are correct. A checked/cancelled stroke that did what you describe would carry the same penalty as a practice stroke. If you hit leaves on the backswing and want to guarantee avoiding penalty keep swinging and hope you make some decent contact despite the distraction.


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## evahakool (Aug 15, 2011)

[ 

[/QUOTE]

How do you differentiate between a practice swing and a stopped swing? 

[/QUOTE]

This was very easy as I fully intended to complete my swing but as I said as soon as I felt my club hitting the leaves I stopped my swing.


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## MashieNiblick (Aug 16, 2011)

Rule 13-2 states that there is no penalty if the action occurs in making a stroke or the backward movement of a club for a stroke * and the stroke is made*. If you discontinue the stroke therefore no stroke is made and so a penalty may apply.  This is clarified in Decision 13-2/14.5 Branch Broken on Backswing and Swing Discontinued which says 

Q. A playerâ€™s ball lies under a tree. The player fairly takes his stance and starts his backswing with the intention of making a stroke. Near the top of his backswing his club strikes a branch and breaks it. At that point he discontinues his swing. Rule 13-2 states in part: â€œâ€¦ a player must not improve â€¦ the area of his intended stance or swing â€¦except â€¦ in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a stroke.â€ Is the player exempt from penalty under this exception?

A. No, because the swing was discontinued the backward movement of the club was not in fact the backward movement for a stroke."


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## evahakool (Aug 16, 2011)

Rule 13-2 states that there is no penalty if the action occurs in making a stroke or the backward movement of a club for a stroke * and the stroke is made*. If you discontinue the stroke therefore no stroke is made and so a penalty may apply.  This is clarified in Decision 13-2/14.5 Branch Broken on Backswing and Swing Discontinued which says 

Q. A playerâ€™s ball lies under a tree. The player fairly takes his stance and starts his backswing with the intention of making a stroke. Near the top of his backswing his club strikes a branch and breaks it. At that point he discontinues his swing. Rule 13-2 states in part: â€œâ€¦ a player must not improve â€¦ the area of his intended stance or swing â€¦except â€¦ in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a stroke.â€ Is the player exempt from penalty under this exception?

A. No, because the swing was discontinued the backward movement of the club was not in fact the backward movement for a stroke."
		
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Thanks for the ruling,the only thing Im not sure on is as no branch was broken and I only touched some leaves is this still a penalty? if so is it 1 or 2 shots.


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## bobmac (Aug 16, 2011)

You take a swing at your ball.
You hit a tree on the backswing and you stop your swing.
Some leaves fall down.
If you HAVENT improved your line of swing, there is no penalty.


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## evahakool (Aug 16, 2011)

You take a swing at your ball.
You hit a tree on the backswing and you stop your swing.
Some leaves fall down.
If you HAVENT improved your line of swing, there is no penalty.
		
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Thankyou Bobmac,this is exactly what happeded.

So as you say  if I only hit some leaves there is no penalty,but if I broke a branch it would be deemed as "improved the line of swing"and therefore would get a 2 shot penalty.


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