# Custom fit v off the shelf



## chrisd (Oct 18, 2016)

Ok, first thing to state is that I'm a bit of a serial club changer. 

My last 4 sets of irons have been (from oldest)

Titleist AP2

CallawayX2 Hot

Mizuno JPX850 Forged

Taylormade RSI 1 

The first and third set were meticulously custom fit and the other two I just took off the shelf. I hit the off the shelf clubs every bit as well, as solid and score at least as well as the fitted clubs, in fact the Callaways produced my best ever round including a hole in one. I've only had the TM's a couple of weeks but they really feel superb and ive shot 38, 31 and 35 points with them. 

It could be that I'm pretty bog standard in fitting but does anyone  feel that fittings v off the shelf makes a huge difference?


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2016)

at nearly 6ft 5, hand like shovels and a pretty fast swing speed fitting makes a big difference to me, I expect the closer you are to "average" then the less effect it will make


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## Albanach (Oct 18, 2016)

fundy said:



			at nearly 6ft 5, hand like shovels and a pretty fast swing speed fitting makes a big difference to me, I expect the closer you are to "average" then the less effect it will make
		
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I'm in the same boat and agree with this.


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## guest100718 (Oct 18, 2016)

It may make some difference, more from a confidence point of view. But the actaul difference is massively overstated, it's not hard to find articles from reputable media outlets making claims that custom fitting will knock 5 shots of your game over night!


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## Imurg (Oct 18, 2016)

I'm with you Chris.
Been fitted plenty of times and bought off the shelf/2nd hand as many times if not more.
I don't think it makes a huge difference to me as long as the shaft is about the right flex/weight and the shaft is about the right length.
That's not say it doesn't work for others.
Especially if, like Fundy, you're a Man-Mountain or , like our esteemed Editor, slightly vertically challenged&#128537;.
I don't think I'm going to get "fully" custom fit again. I know, mostly, what kind of shaft I need and I'm comfortable enough in my knowledge to find something that works based upon experience. I just don't feel I get an discernible difference from the custom fit over my fit.


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## ScienceBoy (Oct 18, 2016)

2nd hand bin all the way. The first two are for fools with too much money


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 18, 2016)

Is the best person to answer this not you, the OP? You have carried out the perfect test, 4 sets of modern clubs, 2 custom fit, 2 off the shelf. Which work best, which felt the most comfortable?


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## Hosel Fade (Oct 18, 2016)

Would the devil's advocate suggest that the two sets you bought off the rack are also very much more forgiving models?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2016)

It's more about experience to me, when you are learning and extremely keen lessons and actually getting used to playing is more important and with so many changes taking place, off the shelf or 2nd hand has to be the way forward.
Once you get to a "certain" place then custom fitting imo can help, but that's more the fine tuning, alongside all that is experience, you'll probably have tried different clubs, either in a shop or a mates clubs over the years or fancied trying something new so you'll have some idea of what works for you and what doesn't and if you can pick up a bargain like the RSI's it's a win win.


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## chrisd (Oct 18, 2016)

Hosel Fade said:



			Would the devil's advocate suggest that the two sets you bought off the rack are also very much more forgiving models?
		
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Yes, they are for sure, but I could have gone to the fitting centres and had them custom fit. If so, would they go any better?


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## hovis (Oct 18, 2016)

custom fit for me all the way.   not so much for shaft type but all my clubs are +1 inch and 3 degree upright.   standard clubs feel like junior clubs to me


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## apj0524 (Oct 18, 2016)

chrisd said:



			Ok, first thing to state is that I'm a bit of a serial club changer. 

My last 4 sets of irons have been (from oldest)

Titleist AP2

CallawayX2 Hot

Mizuno JPX850 Forged

Taylormade RSI 1 

The first and third set were meticulously custom fit and the other two I just took off the shelf. I hit the off the shelf clubs every bit as well, as solid and score at least as well as the fitted clubs, in fact the Callaways produced my best ever round including a hole in one. I've only had the TM's a couple of weeks but they really feel superb and ive shot 38, 31 and 35 points with them. 

It could be that I'm pretty bog standard in fitting but does anyone  feel that fittings v off the shelf makes a huge difference?
		
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I am sure you are right and at my level probably makes no difference, but I enjoy the process of being custom fit as a find it a bit of a learning process, interesting you were fit for the Mizuno JPX850 Forged which was one of the clubs I tried during the fitting on Friday.  I could not see to get along with them either with their stock shafts or with the KBS shaft I play in my current irons, they were short and the dispersion not so good as the others, so if I had bough these off the shelf I would have been disappointed.

Out of interest I went thinking I would like to have the Mizuno JPX900 Forged, did not do it for me, the JPX900 Hot Metal were better but were not easy on the my eye, Psi were good but what I ended up with were irons I had not even considered, 716 AP1, straight away they felt nice of the face, I could work them left and right, I like the look of and they are significantly longer than TM TP CB.  I understand the lofts are different but the 7i is only 1Â° different, but I was a little concerned about wedges as the PW is strong, but I think I have that sorted in my mind.

So to answer I think custom fitting does not make too much difference to performance but it stopped me making an expensive mistake!


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## Dasit (Oct 18, 2016)

I am 6'4 and had my clubs lengthened by 0.75" 

did not get on with that, prefer playing standard spec, also makes you more flexible for playing any club


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## Mozza73 (Oct 18, 2016)

ScienceBoy said:



			2nd hand bin all the way. The first two are for fools with too much money 

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I gather the experience is fun though, I think that's a big part of the appeal.


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## chrisd (Oct 18, 2016)

Mozza73 said:



			I gather the experience is fun though, I think that's a big part of the appeal.
		
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Like you, and others, I always enjoyed the fitting experience and it appears the greatest need for proper custom fit is for the guys who aren't average size


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## CliveW (Oct 18, 2016)

What was the result of your custom fit? How close to standard was it? If your specs are not too far off standard then just opt for off the shelf.


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## chrisd (Oct 18, 2016)

CliveW said:



			What was the result of your custom fit? How close to standard was it? If your specs are not too far off standard then just opt for off the shelf.
		
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My last custom fit was very specific on the shaft, grip etc but I just never hit them any better on the course than the set they replaced which were bog standard off the shelf. theres not much point going for a fitting and then not ordering in the spec advised as there's no extra cost generally


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## Alex1975 (Oct 18, 2016)

It can be about the little things. I used to get a deep crack in the side of my four finger from practice that would tear open the more I hit shots. I could take a new grip and put a warn out groove in it at the same spot in about two weeks. After fitting they made my clubs with 3 layers of tape on the bottom hand and it has taken me from that very extreme situation above to no marks on my hand or grips.

Loft gaps to fit the whole set together and that kind of thing. It does not need to be all shafts and distance.


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## patricks148 (Oct 18, 2016)

The only real drawback with custom fit i find is you get fitted for the swing you turn up with on the day, most amateur golfers are at best inconsistant


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## ScienceBoy (Oct 18, 2016)

If I was a club designer I would want the majority of people to pick my club up off the shelf and hit it better than other manufactures. To do that I would have to design it to "fit" the majority of users without adjustment.


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## mwm118 (Oct 18, 2016)

One problem i have found with custom fit when the lie or other things are changed is that it can reinforce a bad part of your swing. For me I have a flat dynamic lie which causes a mega hook in normal clubs, but my irons' lie angle has been reduced and now to hit straight I have to swing it flat. I have changed my swing recently and so may go to a nearby academy thing that remeasures your lie and adjust it accordingly, so not all is lost


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2016)

ScienceBoy said:



			If I was a club designer I would want the majority of people to pick my club up off the shelf and hit it better than other manufactures. To do that I would have to design it to "fit" the majority of users without adjustment.
		
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and you leave a nice niche market for someone to offer a more bespoke fitted alternative for those of us who want it


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## Alex1975 (Oct 18, 2016)

patricks148 said:



			The only real drawback with custom fit i find is you get fitted for the swing you turn up with on the day, most amateur golfers are at best inconsistant
		
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Na, most armatures present the same numbers day in day out. Could be crap numbers but usually very much the same.


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## Alex1975 (Oct 18, 2016)

mwm118 said:



			One problem i have found with custom fit when the lie or other things are changed is that it can reinforce a bad part of your swing. For me I have a flat dynamic lie which causes a mega hook in normal clubs, but my irons' lie angle has been reduced and now to hit straight I have to swing it flat. I have changed my swing recently and so may go to a nearby academy thing that remeasures your lie and adjust it accordingly, so not all is lost
		
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Flat dynamic lie would not make you hook. The flat lie would also mean face open. I would think its your reaction to the open face that is making you hook.


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## ScienceBoy (Oct 18, 2016)

fundy said:



			and you leave a nice niche market for someone to offer a more bespoke fitted alternative for those of us who want it
		
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Absolutely, win-win.

Half my set is out the bargain bin, got me down to shooting low 80/high 70s

If I can do it then anyone can.


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## Snelly (Oct 18, 2016)

Custom fit never used to exist before about 1995, probably later than that even.  Before custom fit, golfers of all shapes and sizes used standard clubs and were far better players than any of you on this thread who feel qualified to proffer expert opinion, extolling the virtues of the process.

Being fitted for clubs is fun for many and can have tiny incremental positive effects on your golfing prowess.  This is a fact.  But generally, it is just a marketing strategy, designed to maximise cash extraction from gullible golfers that don't have the time available to improve through meaningful practice. 

This is borne out by the fact that we all know loads of golfers who have been custom fitted for all kinds of clubs and they were wretched players before the fitting and are still absolutely hopeless.   Conversely, several of the best golfers I have ever played with have never been fitted for anything and are fantastic at the game.


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## BoadieBroadus (Oct 18, 2016)

Snelly said:



			Custom fit never used to exist before about 1995, probably later than that even.  Before custom fit, golfers of all shapes and sizes used standard clubs and were far better players than any of you on this thread who feel qualified to proffer expert opinion, extolling the virtues of the process.

Being fitted for clubs is fun for many and can have tiny incremental positive effects on your golfing prowess.  This is a fact.  But generally, it is just a marketing strategy, designed to maximise cash extraction from gullible golfers that don't have the time available to improve through meaningful practice. 

This is borne out by the fact that we all know loads of golfers who have been custom fitted for all kinds of clubs and they were wretched players before the fitting and are still absolutely hopeless.   Conversely, several of the best golfers I have ever played with have never been fitted for anything and are fantastic at the game.
		
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I concur with this, though i feel the real push towards custom fit coincided with the explosion of ebay and thus the increase in availability of second hand sets...


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## BTatHome (Oct 18, 2016)

I can have a swing of easily 10 shots between a good round and poor round (possibly even on the same day) does that mean my custom fit works and then fails in the space of a few hours .... or more likely we are amateurs that don't have the repeatable swing to make it work all the time.

One less thing to think about that could go wrong .... if your paying full price then get custom fit, if your looking for a bargain then you might get lucky if you know (believe) your numbers but to be honest your more likely only looking at the price rather than the specs.


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## USER1999 (Oct 18, 2016)

I kind of agree, but then back in the day,  shafts were steel, and regular or stiff. Most had regular.
There is now an enormous choice of shafts to chose from. Sure, eventually you could get any shaft to work, which is effectively what used to happen, but is that ideal? Choosing that shaft may not make you score better, but if it is more comfortable to swing, it makes playing golf more fun, and less of a slog.

If I had to play with project x I would soon give up golf.


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## Alex1975 (Oct 18, 2016)

Snelly said:



			Before custom fit, golfers of all shapes and sizes used standard clubs and were far better players than any of you on this thread who feel qualified to proffer expert opinion, extolling the virtues of the process.
		
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I don't think anyone is claiming to be qualified, I think its a forum and a question was asked as a discussion. Should we only talk about what you want to talk about? Should we do it in the same aggressive with veiled or not so much veiled insults. 

My understanding is your an excellent golfer and for sure a no nonsense person but why not let others have an opinion too without needing to be so dismissive. There are also epic golfers who have been fitted and who are technically minded, who do not need a 3 wood or whatever other rules you have put in place for yourself.


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## ScienceBoy (Oct 18, 2016)

There is a huge difference between using a machine to find the best numbers vs custom fit.

One is just picking between brands and models.

If you can walk out the shop that day with the kit then it's not a custom fit.


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## patricks148 (Oct 18, 2016)

Alex1975 said:



			I don't think anyone is claiming to be qualified, I think its a forum and a question was asked as a discussion. Should we only talk about what you want to talk about? Should we do it in the same aggressive with veiled or not so much veiled insults. 

My understanding is your an excellent golfer and for sure a no nonsense person but why not let others have an opinion too without needing to be so dismissive. There are also epic golfers who have been fitted and who are technically minded, who do not need a 3 wood or whatever other rules you have put in place for yourself.
		
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you might like to take a dose of your own medicine


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## BTatHome (Oct 18, 2016)

ScienceBoy said:



			There is a huge difference between using a machine to find the best numbers vs custom fit.

One is just picking between brands and models.

If you can walk out the shop that day with the kit then it's not a custom fit.
		
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Is it only custom fit if your having something different? 

My last custom fit gave me the off the shelf clubs as best .... should I of taken the worse performing shafts and bent the heads?


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## Alex1975 (Oct 18, 2016)

patricks148 said:



			you might like to take a dose of your own medicine
		
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Ill take that on board but I am not sure I state what is fact if its not fact.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 18, 2016)

Snelly said:



			Custom fit never used to exist before about 1995, probably later than that even.
		
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Balderdash!

I went for a fitting at Ping in Gainsborough in the mid-80's and had other clubs adjusted and fitted by clubmakers.

Custom fit may have become more prevalent and cheaper in recent times but has existed since clubs were hand made in the 19th century. If you believe that previous generations of pro's and top amateurs all played "off the shelf" clubs then I am sorry, but you really should not be commenting.


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## patricks148 (Oct 18, 2016)

Alex1975 said:



			Ill take that on board but I am not sure I state what is fact if its not fact.
		
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How do you know "that most golfers have the same numbers"??

Ive been to to look at clubs when i could barley hit the ball and my swing was all over the place so didn't bother and other times when i've hit it very well indeed, I know a few guys who have had the same experience all like me CAT1 players so we can't be unusual.


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## Alex1975 (Oct 18, 2016)

patricks148 said:



			How do you know "that most golfers have the same numbers"??

Ive been to to look at clubs when i could barley hit the ball and my swing was all over the place so didn't bother and other times when i've hit it very well indeed, I know a few guys who have had the same experience all like me CAT1 players so we can't be unusual.
		
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CAT1 players where the clubs made it so "they could barley hit the ball".... Really? Do tell? What did these clubs do to change what numbers to that point? Was it a spin loft thing or a face to path thing or what exactly?


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## ScienceBoy (Oct 18, 2016)

BTatHome said:



			Is it only custom fit if your having something different? 

My last custom fit gave me the off the shelf clubs as best .... should I of taken the worse performing shafts and bent the heads?
		
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It is a matter of definition, if terming your selection as not being custom fit has an effect then that would support the a argument that it had a mental benefit as well as a swing one?

I don't think walking out with off the shelf clubs which have not been custom fit shoulf devalue your choice. It just means you fit in the group which off the shelf clubs are suitable for. Which should be most of us anyway.


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## Bobirdie (Oct 18, 2016)

i think finding the right shaft definatley helps.

I gain 10-15 yards when playing project x 5.5 over s300.

I'm average height though so standard length for me however 1 degree upright was my fitment


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## ScienceBoy (Oct 18, 2016)

Bobirdie said:



			i think finding the right shaft definatley helps.

I gain 10-15 yards when playing project x 5.5 over s300.

I'm average height though so standard length for me however 1 degree upright was my fitment
		
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There will always be cases where it works and where it doesn't. It's there for you if you need it or can be fit, which you did significantly here. 

I chose a driver with the best numbers but really it wasn't a custom fit as the club was an off the shelf model.

Can't hit it now alway but that's another story...


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## Bobirdie (Oct 18, 2016)

yeah I'm back playing s300s btw lol


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## Alex1975 (Oct 18, 2016)

Bobirdie said:



			yeah I'm back playing s300s btw lol
		
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How come?


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## patricks148 (Oct 18, 2016)

Alex1975 said:



			CAT1 players where the clubs made it so "they could barley hit the ball".... Really? Do tell? What did these clubs do to change what numbers to that point? Was it a spin loft thing or a face to path thing or what exactly?
		
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nothing to do with numbers or clubs, i never mentioned numbers! very few am golfers have consistent swings, my swing can be well off on certain days. but anyway, you didn't answer my question how do you know most golfers hit the same numbers?


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## MendieGK (Oct 18, 2016)

fundy said:



			at nearly 6ft 5, hand like shovels and a pretty fast swing speed fitting makes a big difference to me, I expect the closer you are to "average" then the less effect it will make
		
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 I'd dispute the 'fast' comment


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## Alex1975 (Oct 18, 2016)

patricks148 said:



			nothing to do with numbers or clubs, i never mentioned numbers! very few am golfers have consistent swings, my swing can be well off on certain days. but anyway, you didn't answer my question how do you know most golfers hit the same numbers?
		
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How do you know they are not? You made the original sweeping statement. And when you say some days your swing is "well off" what value is "well off" a degree? 20 degrees?


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## Bobirdie (Oct 18, 2016)

Alex1975 said:



			How come? 

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I got fitted for the 850 forged with px 5.5s and the distances were too long. I play a short tight course.
My mi***** were still carrying the same distance and getting me into far too much bother.

Switched out to s300 714mb blades to lower the flight and lose a bit of distance on off centre hits.

Working well so far


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## patricks148 (Oct 18, 2016)

Alex1975 said:



			How do you know they are not? You made the original sweeping statement. And when you say some days your swing is "well off" what value is "well off" a degree? 20 degrees?
		
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I didn't mention Numbers i said most am golfers are inconsistent and don't have repeatable swings, so you disagree with that then?


time for some medicine again i think


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## fundy (Oct 18, 2016)

MendieGK said:



			I'd dispute the 'fast' comment 

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it was classified with "pretty" for comparison with beasts like yourself


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## Alex1975 (Oct 18, 2016)

Bobirdie said:



			I got fitted for the 850 forged with px 5.5s and the distances were too long. I play a short tight course.
My mi***** were still carrying the same distance and getting me into far too much bother.

Switched out to s300 714mb blades to lower the flight and lose a bit of distance on off centre hits.

Working well so far
		
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Nice. I guess you have enough distance for that not to be the factor.


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## Alex1975 (Oct 18, 2016)

patricks148 said:



			I didn't mention Numbers i said most am golfers are inconsistent and don't have repeatable swings, *so you disagree with that then*?


time for some medicine again i think

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I do. People who get measured (so I will be careful with the phrase "the average golfer"), tend to present very similar numbers day in day out regardless of skill/handicap. For the most part its like swinging an axe at a block of wood, your body wants to get out the way and hit the target with the tool (club/axe). Its really just human nature. So the statement "the average golfer is so inconstant that...." is rubbish. Because they are not presenting the club in a good way does not mean they are not consistent.


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## USER1999 (Oct 18, 2016)

From what I have seen during video lessons of myself, and also track man sessions, of myself, and after conversations with my coach, and also the fitters I have worked with, for me, whilst I think my swing varies massively, day to day, and shot to shot, it actually doesn't. 
The changes that make it seem different are so miniscule that they cannot be seen on video, or on the numbers. To me, the differences appear massive, but are clearly not quantifiable. I would guess that a fitting on any given day would give similar results, whether I am striping it or not, as they are based on numbers, which for me, don't change much.
I would also add that changing my swing through lessons is pretty difficult.

This could be why I'm not very good at golf.


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## Snelly (Oct 18, 2016)

Alex1975 said:



			I don't think anyone is claiming to be qualified, I think its a forum and a question was asked as a discussion. Should we only talk about what you want to talk about? Should we do it in the same aggressive with veiled or not so much veiled insults. 

My understanding is your an excellent golfer and for sure a no nonsense person but why not let others have an opinion too without needing to be so dismissive. There are also epic golfers who have been fitted and who are technically minded, who do not need a 3 wood or whatever other rules you have put in place for yourself.
		
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I think you are being oversensitive love. 

I am not being insulting, just trying to frame the debate in a historical context to remind those that have not played for very long that there was once a very different way of playing golf - quickly and with clubs that were totally off the shelf.


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## Bobirdie (Oct 18, 2016)

Alex1975 said:



			Nice. I guess you have enough distance for that not to be the factor.
		
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Yes I'm all good there.

Will change back no doubt the older I get lol


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## Snelly (Oct 18, 2016)

murphthemog said:



			I kind of agree, but then back in the day,  shafts were steel, and regular or stiff. Most had regular.  There is now an enormous choice of shafts to chose from. Sure, eventually you could get any shaft to work, which is effectively what used to happen, but is that ideal? Choosing that shaft may not make you score better, but if it is more comfortable to swing, it makes playing golf more fun, and less of a slog.
		
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This is a very good point and I agree that the proliferation of choice means that it is much easier to get something unsuitable to your game at present. However, I would also say that the shaft options are again, designed to increase revenues from manufacturers primarily.  The confusing array of options means more opportunity to upsell.


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## Alex1975 (Oct 18, 2016)

Snelly said:



			I think you are being oversensitive love. 

I am not being insulting, just trying to frame the debate in a historical context to remind those that have not played for very long that there was once a very different way of playing golf - quickly and with clubs that were totally off the shelf.
		
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Na, its golf, its a forum, not sensitive about it at all (love). Just aware that this is a place to discuss and you are very set in your views and to you there is only 1 way or (fill in insult of the day).


As I say, I have been made aware of your high skill but it does not mean that everything is "that's that".


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## Snelly (Oct 18, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Balderdash!

I went for a fitting at Ping in Gainsborough in the mid-80's and had other clubs adjusted and fitted by clubmakers.

Custom fit may have become more prevalent and cheaper in recent times but has existed since clubs were hand made in the 19th century. If you believe that previous generations of pro's and top amateurs all played "off the shelf" clubs then I am sorry, but you really should not be commenting.
		
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Balderdash?   Nice word.

Yes I do know that top players had tweaked clubs in the 80's and that if you searched around, you could sometimes find stiff shafts for clubs.  However, I would have thought it relatively obvious, even to the hard of learning, that I was talking in general terms, about the vast majority of club golfers.   No-one bar a tiny minority, paid any heed to any aspect of golf equipment that would be considered as standard options in the era of custom fit. 

The club choice options of 1985 and today are like chalk and cheese.  To say otherwise is not just balderdash, it is unquestionably hogwash, piffle, gibberish and quite possibly, twaddle.


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## Alex1975 (Oct 18, 2016)

Snelly said:



*even to the hard of learning*

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...


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## Snelly (Oct 18, 2016)

Alex1975 said:



			Na, its golf, its a forum, not sensitive about it at all (love). Just aware that this is a place to discuss and you are very set in your views and to you there is only 1 way or (fill in insult of the day).


As I say, I have been made aware of your high skill but it does not mean that everything is "that's that".
		
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Actually I am open minded and am often having my mind changed by persuasive argument.  In this instance though, it is doubtful that will happen.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 18, 2016)

I started by getting a set of the web after trying in store - they got me down to 16 .I then bought a set of the shelf - TM R9 and I had the worst 6 months of my entire golf life. I then bit the built and went and got fitted with Taylormade and came away with a set of TPMC. I could quite clearly tell the difference between the shafts when they were changed and tested - they changed my game and still use them now. Its the same with drivers - got fitted for an R11 - superb , bought an R1 off the shelf - shocking , clearly the wrong shaft so went and got fitted for a SLDR and driving is prob now my strong point.

For me it's worth it to be custom fit even if it's just trying different shafts

With custom fit in some shape or form being available for free when getting new clubs with most pros it seems a no brainier.

We all swing the club different - no one swings a club "standard" so can't see why anyone wouldn't ensure what they have in their hands is the best fit for the way they swing the club


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## User62651 (Oct 18, 2016)

I think if you want to explore custom fitting just do it, for some 'freaks' it will be beneficial, for 95% of us I suspect not. Think you need to be really really good for these tiny margins to do anything. Even the psychological effect may be helpful in that it stops you blaming your gear/changing your gear and thereby focus on more important facets like technique/practice/lessons so CF may help there and actually save you money of you are a tinkerer.

'Re-inventing the wheel' is a phrase made for golf it seems and punters are lining up to buy into what is effectively largely BS. Part of golf though, everyone wants new clubs and any excuse to buy them.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 18, 2016)

Snelly said:



			Balderdash?   Nice word.

Yes I do know that top players had tweaked clubs in the 80's and that if you searched around, you could sometimes find stiff shafts for clubs.  However, I would have thought it relatively obvious, even to the hard of learning, that I was talking in general terms, about the vast majority of club golfers.   No-one bar a tiny minority, paid any heed to any aspect of golf equipment that would be considered as standard options in the era of custom fit. 

The club choice options of 1985 and today are like chalk and cheese.  To say otherwise is not just balderdash, it is unquestionably hogwash, piffle, gibberish and quite possibly, twaddle.
		
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So to whom were Ping (amongst others) selling their clubs in the 70's and 80's?

In your self absorbed world does it ever occur to you that there may be some on here with at least as much and possibly more experience of the game than yourself?

Silly question really!


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## tsped83 (Oct 18, 2016)

patricks148 said:



			The only real drawback with custom fit i find is you get fitted for the swing you turn up with on the day, most amateur golfers are at best inconsistant
		
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This wins it for me.


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## Snelly (Oct 18, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			So to whom were Ping (amongst others) selling their clubs in the 70's and 80's?

In your self absorbed world does it ever occur to you that there may be some on here with at least as much and possibly more experience of the game than yourself?

Silly question really!
		
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Yes, very silly.


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## One Planer (Oct 18, 2016)

Snelly said:



			Custom fit never used to exist before about 1995, probably later than that even.  Before custom fit, golfers of all shapes and sizes used standard clubs and were far better players than any of you on this thread who feel qualified to proffer expert opinion, extolling the virtues of the process.

Being fitted for clubs is fun for many and can have tiny incremental positive effects on your golfing prowess.  This is a fact.  But generally, it is just a marketing strategy, designed to maximise cash extraction from gullible golfers that don't have the time available to improve through meaningful practice. 

This is borne out by the fact that we all know loads of golfers who have been custom fitted for all kinds of clubs and they were wretched players before the fitting and are still absolutely hopeless.   Conversely, several of the best golfers I have ever played with have never been fitted for anything and are fantastic at the game.
		
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Now, now Snelly. You had a different opinion a while back upon receipt of your i25 irons 

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/sh...-s-after-being-fitted-courtesy-of-GM-amp-Ping

Specifically the last line.

As for me? I'm as neutral, average Joe as they get, as evidenced through various fittings.

Off the shelf for me.


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## guest100718 (Oct 18, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Now, now Snelly. You had a different opinion a while back upon receipt of your i25 irons 

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/sh...-s-after-being-fitted-courtesy-of-GM-amp-Ping

*Specifically the last line.*

As for me? I'm as neutral, average Joe as they get, as evidenced through various fittings.

Off the shelf for me.
		
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ha nice....the intenet has a long memory..

As for custom. if the irons im buying include it then i'll do it. But I am just as happy with off the shelf irons.


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## Robobum (Oct 18, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Now, now Snelly. You had a different opinion a while back upon receipt of your i25 irons 

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/sh...-s-after-being-fitted-courtesy-of-GM-amp-Ping

Specifically the last line.

As for me? I'm as neutral, average Joe as they get, as evidenced through various fittings.

Off the shelf for me.
		
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Funny, is he in the gullible or wretched group? &#128514;


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## Alex1975 (Oct 18, 2016)

Wonderful........


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## patricks148 (Oct 18, 2016)

Alex1975 said:



			I don't think anyone is claiming to be qualified, I think its a forum and a question was asked as a discussion. Should we only talk about what you want to talk about? Should we do it in the same aggressive with veiled or not so much veiled insults. 

My understanding is your an excellent golfer and for sure a no nonsense person *but why not let others have an opinion too without needing to be so dismissive.* There are also epic golfers who have been fitted and who are technically minded, who do not need a 3 wood or whatever other rules you have put in place for yourself.
		
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Alex1975 said:



			I do. People who get measured (so I will be careful with the phrase "the average golfer"), tend to present very similar numbers day in day out regardless of skill/handicap. For the most part its like swinging an axe at a block of wood, your body wants to get out the way and hit the target with the tool (club/axe). Its really just human nature. So the statement "the average golfer is so inconstant that...." is rubbish. Because they are not presenting the club in a good way does not mean they are not consistent.
		
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have a read of your own post and as i said take a dose of your own medicine

I didn't say they were "so inconsistent " i said most didn't have a consistent or repeatable swing, hence why we have handicaps and some, slice, hook,fat, thin, shank from time to time as most of us are inconsitant


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## richy (Oct 18, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Now, now Snelly. You had a different opinion a while back upon receipt of your i25 irons 

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/sh...-s-after-being-fitted-courtesy-of-GM-amp-Ping

Specifically the last line.

As for me? I'm as neutral, average Joe as they get, as evidenced through various fittings.

Off the shelf for me.
		
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Ha ha what an utter &#128276;&#128282;


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 18, 2016)

Had both fitted and off the shelf. Both have given my game a shot in the arm after purchase but it's never long term. That is more use error than whether fitting or not works. However, given the choice I'll always opt for a proper fitting if possible solely because I enjoy the process, the chance to try different head/shaft options, get some feedback on my swing and what suits it and simply because I can. I don't have any views or whether fitting or off the shelf work better anymore and it's simply a matter of personal preference


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## Alex1975 (Oct 18, 2016)

patricks148 said:



			have a read of your own post and as i said take a dose of your own medicine

I didn't say they were "so inconsistent " i said most didn't have a consistent or repeatable swing, hence why we have handicaps and some, slice, hook,fat, thin, shank from time to time as most of us are inconsitant
		
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Nope, in the main they are consistent and repeatable ... those who slice tend to consistently slice and so on... they tend to swing the same speed and load the shaft to the same degree. 

Feel free to keep saying the same thing but I don't agree.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 18, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Now, now Snelly. You had a different opinion a while back upon receipt of your i25 irons 

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/sh...-s-after-being-fitted-courtesy-of-GM-amp-Ping

Specifically the last line.

As for me? I'm as neutral, average Joe as they get, as evidenced through various fittings.

Off the shelf for me.
		
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I remember Snelly also stating that golf clubs were merely tools,he later had his driver spayed Ferrari red &#128514;


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## Region3 (Oct 18, 2016)

patricks148 said:



			I didn't say they were "so inconsistent " i said most didn't have a consistent or repeatable swing, hence why we have handicaps and some, slice, hook,fat, thin, shank from time to time as most of us are inconsitant
		
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Without wanting to presume anything, I think the point Alex is making is that most of us regardless of handicap have swing parameters that are the same from one day to the next. This doesn't mean we hit the ball consistently though.

I've never tested this, but I'd be willing to bet that regardless of how well I'm hitting the ball or what direction it's going in, my:

Club speed
Tempo
Dynamic loft
Forces on the club at transition
Shaft angle at impact

and probably more, are pretty much the same from one day to the next. Doesn't mean the path and face angle at impact don't change, but that - for the most part - needs fixing with lessons rather than club fittings.

How many times have you or a friend been having a mare and everyone says "doesn't look any different to normal"?


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## patricks148 (Oct 18, 2016)

Region3 said:



			Without wanting to presume anything, I think the point Alex is making is that most of us regardless of handicap have swing parameters that are the same from one day to the next. This doesn't mean we hit the ball consistently though.

I've never tested this, but I'd be willing to bet that regardless of how well I'm hitting the ball or what direction it's going in, my:

Club speed
Tempo
Dynamic loft
Forces on the club at transition
Shaft angle at impact

and probably more, are pretty much the same from one day to the next. Doesn't mean the path and face angle at impact don't change, but that - for the most part - needs fixing with lessons rather than club fittings.

How many times have you or a friend been having a mare and everyone says "doesn't look any different to normal"?
		
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Well i disagree, mine looks shocking from time to time and i know others that would say the same. Ive been on a trackman when my ss was well down other times it was well up. sometimes its too steep sometimes too flat. in essence, inconsistent.


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## The Autumn Wind (Oct 18, 2016)

Custom fitting isn't just about shaft length and lie angle.

I find another really useful aspect is trying different shafts with different club heads, and seeing the results on a Flightscope. I settled on Nippon Pro Modus shafts in my irons only as a result of custom fitting, otherwise I'd have just stayed with my old Project X's and been blissfully unaware of the distance and dispersion gains that the Pro Modus have given me.


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## Smiffy (Oct 19, 2016)

Find a club you like the look of, and then just *make sure you get the right shaft*.
Simples.
A couple of years ago, I made the stupid (and costly) mistake of buying a brand new set of Ping i25's "assuming" that a regular steel shaft would be okay for me.
What a mistake that was. Felt dead in my hands. I lost an awful lot of distance (not that I ever had a lot anyway) and my confidence in them totally disappeared, so much so that I was dreading going out for the next game with them.
I knew that I had to offload them quickly, which I did at a substantial loss.
I then purchased my current RS1's. I didn't get fitted for them, I just went back down the graphite route, had a "swish" with one in a pro shop and thought "I could bash these".
Two years on, I couldn't be happier.
When I hit one properly, which I do from time to time, they are, without a shadow of doubt, the *best *clubs I have ever owned. Distance I could only dream about before, and I don't even feel (or hear) the ball leave the clubhead. They could be forged clubs, but I know they're not.
Sure, every now and then I still hit the rank shot, the god awful rank shot. But I know it's not the clubs. It's me. It's the awful excuse for a swing that I've just put on it, and that particularly terrible swing would be exactly the same with an expensive set of custom fitted clubs costing twice as much. And it would have had the same result. No end of fitting is going to help if I am swinging like a deranged octopus. 
And if I actually went for a club fitting, swinging with that same deranged swing on the day, God knows what abominations I would be expecting to turn up through the post a week or two later.
I am a firm believer that if you are of "average" size and shape, an "average" set of club will see you through. Just as long as you get the correct shaft.
I think what Snelly was alluding to, is that years ago pro shops stocked sets of clubs available with basically three types of shaft. Soft, regular and stiff. If you swung slowly you bought soft. If you swung at an average speed you bought regular. If you were a bit of a Billy Whiz you bought stiff. 
Nothing much has changed. Except peoples disposable incomes maybe?????


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## Oddsocks (Oct 19, 2016)

Imurg said:



			I'm with you Chris.
Been fitted plenty of times and bought off the shelf/2nd hand as many times if not more.
I don't think it makes a huge difference to me as long as the shaft is about the right flex/weight and the shaft is about the right length.
That's not say it doesn't work for others.
Especially if, like Fundy, you're a Man-Mountain or , like our esteemed Editor, slightly vertically challenged&#128537;.
I don't think I'm going to get "fully" custom fit again. I know, mostly, what kind of shaft I need and I'm comfortable enough in my knowledge to find something that works based upon experience. I just don't feel I get an discernible difference from the custom fit over my fit.
		
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I'm pretty much in this boat, i know my shaft specs so for me it's simply a case of a demo club on that spec from 2/3/4 manufactures and a flight scope/trackman to check length and dispersion 

Once a I've made my mind up I may check a shaft either side but that's about it.

one think I  am a massive believer in is correct lie angles, I had the cb'/ bent one degrees flat and the difference in strike was unreal.  The swing is a little sketchy at the moment but once it stables out I will have the apex checked a no doubt they will be bent


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## seochris (Oct 19, 2016)

Smiffy said:



			Find a club you like the look of, and then just *make sure you get the right shaft*.
Simples.
A couple of years ago, I made the stupid (and costly) mistake of buying a brand new set of Ping i25's "assuming" that a regular steel shaft would be okay for me.
What a mistake that was. Felt dead in my hands. I lost an awful lot of distance (not that I ever had a lot anyway) and my confidence in them totally disappeared, so much so that I was dreading going out for the next game with them.
I knew that I had to offload them quickly, which I did at a substantial loss.
I then purchased my current RS1's. I didn't get fitted for them, I just went back down the graphite route, had a "swish" with one in a pro shop and thought "I could bash these".
Two years on, I couldn't be happier.
When I hit one properly, which I do from time to time, they are, without a shadow of doubt, the *best *clubs I have ever owned. Distance I could only dream about before, and I don't even feel (or hear) the ball leave the clubhead. They could be forged clubs, but I know they're not.
Sure, every now and then I still hit the rank shot, the god awful rank shot. But I know it's not the clubs. It's me. It's the awful excuse for a swing that I've just put on it, and that particularly terrible swing would be exactly the same with an expensive set of custom fitted clubs costing twice as much. And it would have had the same result. No end of fitting is going to help if I am swinging like a deranged octopus. 
And if I actually went for a club fitting, swinging with that same deranged swing on the day, God knows what abominations I would be expecting to turn up through the post a week or two later.
I am a firm believer that if you are of "average" size and shape, an "average" set of club will see you through. Just as long as you get the correct shaft.
I think what Snelly was alluding to, is that years ago pro shops stocked sets of clubs available with basically three types of shaft. Soft, regular and stiff. If you swung slowly you bought soft. If you swung at an average speed you bought regular. If you were a bit of a Billy Whiz you bought stiff. 
Nothing much has changed. Except peoples disposable incomes maybe?????
		
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Completely agree with this...I made the same mistake with some new Ping i e.....my old i20s had KBS Tour 90s and the Ping i  had the CFS distance....both in regular.  Huge mistake.  I thought the Ping would be fine as they were only 10g or so heavier than the KBS...big, expensive mistake.

Chopped them out after 3 months and bought the Mizunos...XP 115.  Slightly heavier again but they just worked.  So the shaft is all important in my view...even more so than the heads.


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## Snelly (Oct 19, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Now, now Snelly. You had a different opinion a while back upon receipt of your i25 irons 

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/sh...-s-after-being-fitted-courtesy-of-GM-amp-Ping

Specifically the last line.

As for me? I'm as neutral, average Joe as they get, as evidenced through various fittings.

Off the shelf for me.
		
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Yes, I am perfectly aware of what I wrote post fitting.   I thought it was good - my handicap / level of play has doubled / worsened since!


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## Robobum (Oct 19, 2016)

Snelly said:



			Yes, I am perfectly aware of what I wrote post fitting.   I thought it was good - my handicap / level of play has doubled / worsened since!
		
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Snelly said:



			An interesting golfing year for me.  I have joined a club again for the first time in 13 years.  I have to say I absolutely love the place.  The course is wonderful but really tough and the members I have met have made me feel very welcome,  It is a privilege to be a member. 

My golf has been mixed.  Some good stuff mixed with some utter tripe and I am yet to put a really good round together at my new club.  I have managed a couple of  2 over par rounds including a polished -3 back 9 but have never really had a decent front 9 holes.  

My handicap is not where I feel it should be at 5.7 but I cannot complain really as *I am just not playing enough to get much better, primarily because I have a new job which is very time consuming.   Additionally, the difficulty of the course is also a factor in my handicap.  I think I am hitting the ball well enough but feel my home course is 2-3 shots harder than most.*

Onward and upward though.  I do plan to play much more now and will improve, I am certain of that. Just need a modicum of consistency.
		
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More stories than Homer! Make up your mind why your hcap is going up! &#128514;&#128514;


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## moogie (Oct 19, 2016)

Robobum said:



			More stories than Homer! Make up your mind why your hcap is going up! &#128514;&#128514;
		
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Nice one


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## Mozza73 (Oct 19, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Now, now Snelly. You had a different opinion a while back upon receipt of your i25 irons 

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/sh...-s-after-being-fitted-courtesy-of-GM-amp-Ping

Specifically the last line.

As for me? I'm as neutral, average Joe as they get, as evidenced through various fittings.

Off the shelf for me.
		
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In fairness he was just given a free set of fitted clubs in a once-in-a-lifetime experience. 

He was hardly going to say it was crap


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## richy (Oct 19, 2016)

Snelly said:



			Yes, I am perfectly aware of what I wrote post fitting.   I thought it was good - my handicap / level of play has doubled / worsened since!
		
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Could be an age thing?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2016)

Snelly said:



			Yes, I am perfectly aware of what I wrote post fitting.   I thought it was good - my handicap / level of play has doubled / worsened since!
		
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Maybe that's down to the workman as opposed to the tools 

I'm pretty sure that's the sort of attitude you recently displayed to people bemoaning unable to use 3 woods ?


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## tsped83 (Oct 19, 2016)

The forks are out. Get lives.


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## moogie (Oct 19, 2016)

tsped83 said:



			The forks are out. Get lives.
		
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The guy deserves some payback
He's quite possibly the rudest,  most obnoxious, poster on here
Looks down from above ,  casting insults


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## pendodave (Oct 19, 2016)

Poor old Snelly, pichforks and ducking stools incoming...   I think he'll be OK, I hope so, we need a bit of grit in the forum oyster now and again..

Just read the first and last pages of this thread. The first is measured and sensible and pretty much fits in with my own experience and observations. Maybe it should have been locked down there.

A couple of other thoughts...

1. Just watched a Crossfield vid where he changed the lie angle at impact of someones swing by a couple of degrees in five minutes. I suspect these and other swing parameters change a lot in any given day/week/month for most handicap golfers. If you just worked off the bog standard ping static charts you probably have a perfectly satisfactory working average without the need to micro-analyse a particular two hour session.

2. If measuring cost effectiveness for improving golf, I would suggest that second hand+lessons is far better than custom fitting+brand new clubs. Especially using the chart mentioned above, ebay, a sensible assessment of you own swingspeed and a browse around AG to see what suits your eye. A brand new set of Ping G irons = Â£480, G25 on ebay =Â£225. That would give Â£250 on lessons with a lovely set of irons. I know which golfer would get better fastest for his Â£500 notes.


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## Alex1975 (Oct 19, 2016)

Snelly said:



			Yes, I am perfectly aware of what I wrote post fitting.   I thought it was good - my handicap / level of play has doubled / worsened since!
		
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Your clubs made you play worse?....


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## karlcole (Oct 19, 2016)

pendodave said:



			Poor old Snelly, pichforks and ducking stools incoming...   I think he'll be OK, I hope so, we need a bit of grit in the forum oyster now and again..

Just read the first and last pages of this thread. The first is measured and sensible and pretty much fits in with my own experience and observations. Maybe it should have been locked down there.

A couple of other thoughts...

1. Just watched a Crossfield vid where he changed the lie angle at impact of someones swing by a couple of degrees in five minutes. I suspect these and other swing parameters change a lot in any given day/week/month for most handicap golfers. If you just worked off the bog standard ping static charts you probably have a perfectly satisfactory working average without the need to micro-analyse a particular two hour session.

2. If measuring cost effectiveness for improving golf, I would suggest that second hand+lessons is far better than custom fitting+brand new clubs. Especially using the chart mentioned above, ebay, a sensible assessment of you own swingspeed and a browse around AG to see what suits your eye. A brand new set of Ping G irons = Â£480, G25 on ebay =Â£225. That would give Â£250 on lessons with a lovely set of irons. I know which golfer would get better fastest for his Â£500 notes.
		
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Exactly right mate in my opinion but we all love a good custom fit set of new irons ha


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## anotherdouble (Oct 19, 2016)

chrisd said:



			Ok, first thing to state is that I'm a bit of a serial club changer. 

My last 4 sets of irons have been (from oldest)

Titleist AP2

CallawayX2 Hot

Mizuno JPX850 Forged

Taylormade RSI 1 

The first and third set were meticulously custom fit and the other two I just took off the shelf. I hit the off the shelf clubs every bit as well, as solid and score at least as well as the fitted clubs, in fact the Callaways produced my best ever round including a hole in one. I've only had the TM's a couple of weeks but they really feel superb and ive shot 38, 31 and 35 points with them. 

It could be that I'm pretty bog standard in fitting but does anyone  feel that fittings v off the shelf makes a huge difference?
		
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It could be that you are just a golf god and could use a sledge hammer and croquet mallet (not fitted) and get around a course. You think of that


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