# The Open on Sky - It's official



## Wildrover (Feb 3, 2015)

http://www1.skysports.com/news/12040/9698005/

No more Peter :angry:


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

Sad day


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## Imurg (Feb 3, 2015)

I suspect NowTV will be doing a roaring trade in early July '17...


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## fundy (Feb 3, 2015)

http://www.theopen.com/NewsVideo/Ne...rom Peter Dawson Chief Executive of The RandA

BBC still got highlights. Interesting theyve agreed to a max of 4 60 second advert breaks per hour too.


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## USER1999 (Feb 3, 2015)

So if I want to watch the highlights at one in the morning I'm still sorted.

Peachy.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Feb 3, 2015)

Is this the end of Ken on the course?


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## PieMan (Feb 3, 2015)

murphthemog said:



			So if I want to watch the highlights at one in the morning I'm still sorted.

Peachy.
		
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Knowing the BBC, the highlights will be on at 3 in the morning!!


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## Piece (Feb 3, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sad day 

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I see it as a happy day


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

drive4show said:



			Is this the end of Ken on the course?  

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Prob - it's ok , we got Monty , Roe and Holmes to look forward to !


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## PieMan (Feb 3, 2015)

drive4show said:



			Is this the end of Ken on the course?  

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Wayne Reilly a more than adequate substitute!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

Piece said:



			I see it as a happy day 

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Any day that restricts people from watching sport is never a happy day for me


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## 6inchcup (Feb 3, 2015)

the BBC are bringing a new series of A ROUND WITH ALLIS to compensate,4 old duffers sit in a tea rooms,Allis buys 4 earl greys and for 10 hours they each spout about the old days,hickory clubs,cake, the wives and every so often golf,if you close your eyes you will never know the open is on the other side.


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## Piece (Feb 3, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Any day that restricts people from watching sport is never a happy day for me 

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There's still highlights available on BBC, which will suit the vast majority. Those who are really being restricted are those that want to watch it live most of the time but can't afford PPV - this group is a large minority.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

To watch live golf in this country we now have to pay for it - the only people that will pay for it are golfers who prob already have sky - no idea who is minority or majority but either way it's now restricted to who watches.


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## SAPCOR1 (Feb 3, 2015)

The BBC have a pot of Â£Â£Â£ to spend which comes from the licence fee and BBC Enterprises who licence merchandise and BBC copyright material across the world.

They obviously felt that the money was better spent elsewhere and settled on the highlights package.

The R&A weren't happy with the current UK coverage and what they were being paid so put it out tender.


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## Snelly (Feb 3, 2015)

Participation in the game is dwindling so the R&A decide to restrict the jewel of their crown to a broadcaster that millions cannot or refuse to pay for access.

The utter stupidity of this decision beggars belief.   You only have to look how a similar course of action has affected participation levels in cricket to see the short term folly of this course of action. 

A dark day for the R&A, choosing Murdoch's dosh over safeguarding accessibility to golf for terrestrial TV viewers.   

Fools.  As is anyone who supports their decision.


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## Darren24 (Feb 3, 2015)

Think this wrong for the British public as all sport should be televised by the bbc not fat cat who own sky. Rich just getting richer that's the way I see it.


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## MegaSteve (Feb 3, 2015)

Snelly said:



			Participation in the game is dwindling so the R&A decide to restrict the jewel of their crown to a broadcaster that millions cannot or refuse to pay for access.

The utter stupidity of this decision beggars belief.   You only have to look how a similar course of action has affected participation levels in cricket to see the short term folly of this course of action. 

A dark day for the R&A, choosing Murdoch's dosh over safeguarding accessibility to golf for terrestrial TV viewers.   

Fools.  As is anyone who supports their decision.
		
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You were doing great 'til the last line...


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## Piece (Feb 3, 2015)

E



Snelly said:



			Participation in the game is dwindling so the R&A decide to restrict the jewel of their crown to a broadcaster that millions cannot or refuse to pay for access.

The utter stupidity of this decision beggars belief.   You only have to look how a similar course of action has affected participation levels in cricket to see the short term folly of this course of action. 

A dark day for the R&A, choosing Murdoch's dosh over safeguarding accessibility to golf for terrestrial TV viewers.   

Fools.  As is anyone who supports their decision.
		
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The only fool in this is the BBC not the R&A or Sky. The corporation hasn't taken golf seriously for years thus it can't expect to dine out on historical links. If BBC wanted to show its corporate social committment to golf and its roots, then it would have financed its current offer better, and shown more live golf events over recent years.


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## Snelly (Feb 3, 2015)

Piece said:



			E

The only fool in this is the BBC not the R&A or Sky. The corporation hasn't taken golf seriously for years thus it can't expect to dine out on historical links. If BBC wanted to show its corporate social committment to golf and its roots, then it would have financed its current offer better, and shown more live golf events over recent years.
		
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Other terrestrial broadcasters are available.  The BBC don't do sport as it promotes winners and losers which doesn't fit with their leftist junta ideology.   Things like the Olympics are exceptional though as they promote racial harmony and a coming together of faiths and creeds etc etc etc. 

I bet channel 4 would've done a great job with the Open...


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## 6inchcup (Feb 3, 2015)

golf is a minority sport so having the open on the beeb isnt going to dramatically increase those playing,a vast majority who play the game as well as clubs,pubs etc will have SKY so it can be watched for free anyway,i assume it will be on the radio so you can listen to it ,the tour is a business so money talks the more they get the more they can spend on grass roots golf.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

The R&A point to golf numbers reducing in recent years whilst the Open and Master were on live telly - now imo the main reason for the drop in golf is people have prioritised where they spend their money - mainly on living and providing for their family 

So now the R&A have decided to move the last remaining free to air golf event onto a platform where people have to pay To just watch it!

I don't know how they expect to gain more viewers into the sport when they restrict the people who can watch it


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## pendodave (Feb 3, 2015)

Piece said:



			The only fool in this is the BBC not the R&A or Sky. The corporation hasn't taken golf seriously for years thus it can't expect to dine out on historical links. If BBC wanted to show its corporate social committment to golf and its roots, then it would have financed its current offer better, and shown more live golf events over recent years.
		
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No. The BBC is not the fool.

The fools are the guardians of the game who have locked it away from the majority of people in this country for ever.

And those that think that because THEY can afford it, or it suits THEIR own preferences/prejudices about the coverage, it is good for the game as a whole might need to extract their heads from wherever they are as well.

Ironically, the sport that the golf administrators/clubs are most concerned about as competition for prospective golfers (cycling) has it's 'crown jewels' event available free to air for 3 weeks in the middle of every summer for hours at a time, and has blanket free to air coverage every couple of years at its major showcase events. Coincidence ??


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## jpjeffery (Feb 3, 2015)

Snelly said:



			The BBC don't do sport as it promotes winners and losers which doesn't fit with their leftist junta ideology.
		
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That's pure clichÃ© nonsense.


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## SAPCOR1 (Feb 3, 2015)

Y



Snelly said:



			Other terrestrial broadcasters are available.  The BBC don't do sport as it promotes winners and losers which doesn't fit with their leftist junta ideology.   Things like the Olympics are exceptional though as they promote racial harmony and a coming together of faiths and creeds etc etc etc. 

I bet channel 4 would've done a great job with the Open...
		
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Did Ch.4 or ITV & Ch.5 for that matter, bid for it?

People moan about commercial breaks with Sky and they are bound by the same regulations as the rest


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## Piece (Feb 3, 2015)

pendodave said:



			Ironically, the sport that the golf administrators/clubs are most concerned about as competition for prospective golfers (cycling) has it's 'crown jewels' event available free to air for 3 weeks in the middle of every summer for hours at a time, and has blanket free to air coverage every couple of years at its major showcase events. Coincidence ??
		
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Coincidence in that the main British Cycling team who peaked interest in the sport with Olympic success and Bradley's TdF victory is sponsored and financed by a well known satellite broadcaster?


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## lobthewedge (Feb 3, 2015)

Cant say I am overly saddened or surprised to see the Open go to Sky, they do a great job with the regular golf coverage and will no doubt breath life into what was a stagnant BBC coverage.

To my mind the BBC hierarchy are entirely to blame for this.  How the hell they see it as more beneficial to the taxpayer to produce and air some of the absolute drivel that appears across the BBC spectrum is far beyond me.  

Snelly had it right - FOOLS!


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 3, 2015)

BBC highlights, 8-10pm. Seems a pretty good compromise. The R & A get the big bucks from Sky. Sky will give excellent coverage as they do with sport due to dedicated channels. The BBC will give a highlights package to suit people who have been at work, those who don't want to follow golf all day or those who don't have access to Sky. In this modern era I think this is a fair deal.


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## Snelly (Feb 3, 2015)

jpjeffery said:



			That's pure clichÃ© nonsense.
		
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No it isn't.  The BBC is culturally and politically skewed to the left and competitive sport doesn't fit with this.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 3, 2015)

It does make me wonder how poor the Open coverage will be for the next couple of years now the BBC know they have lost it.

Whatever the arguments about free to air TV and participation levels nobody can deny Sky's great commitment to golf. For those of us that do have it, it's pretty great that we can see just about every PGA and European tour event and also some LET and LPGA events (more please!) and even seniors golf.


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## GB72 (Feb 3, 2015)

If the BBC was so keen to show golf, perhaps it could give up one of its expensive football contracts to fund. Oh wait, the BBC would rather show third tier football than the elite level of any other sport. Lucky the open is during the off season or 5 live would drop the coverage in favour of live conference football


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## Snelly (Feb 3, 2015)

Piece said:



			Coincidence in that the main British Cycling team who peaked interest in the sport with Olympic success and Bradley's TdF victory is sponsored and financed by a well known satellite broadcaster?
		
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No.  You are completely failing to grasp the point.   Cycling is in a real boom period because a huge amount of people are seeing British cyclists succeed and want to emulate them.  It is that simple.  

Same as when the Test matches were on the BBC, everyone wanted to pretend to be Botham and Willis and play cricket in the street, emulating the heroes that they SAW!

And I remember feeling exactly the same when I watched Tom Watson or Seve as a kid, sat with my Grandpa.  I WATCHED them do amazing things in the Open on the BBC and wanted to get my hands on a golf club and copy them. My 11 year old son has been precisely the same as this when he has watched the Open with me.  Straight down to the driving range for the following week.

Kids copy successful sports stars - FACT.  Limiting the number of kids that can watch them perform is a spectacularly stupid thing to do by the administrators of any sport.    

Even the thickest numbskull should be able to see this.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

I don't see what is so good about the Sky coverage - the US is rubbish but that's mainly down to the US broadcasters - the ET is ok but split into two sessions and again it's ok 

But the main issue I have is with the commentators being so dull - Roe , Holmes two examples , Pugh etc are just bore me with all the shot centre etc - if that's what enhanced coverage is then I can do with out it 

As for the live pictures - the feed on the course for OB comes from two companies - BBC and Sky use both of them - the Open is done by the same company that do the PGA


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## Snelly (Feb 3, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			For those of us that do have it, it's pretty great that we can see just about every PGA and European tour event and also some LET and LPGA events (more please!) and even seniors golf.
		
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And that is just it isn't it?  Those that do have Sky are perfectly happy at this turn of events but that ignores the wider perspective somewhat..


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## NorfolkShaun (Feb 3, 2015)

Very sad day for golf, I do think the BBC coverage was poor at best but a real loss to the sport to limit the people who can see it


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## garyinderry (Feb 3, 2015)

Is there really an influx of youngsters taking to pedals?  I just don't see it.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 3, 2015)

Snelly said:



			And that is just it isn't it?  Those that do have Sky are perfectly happy at this turn of events but that ignores the wider perspective somewhat..
		
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That's not what I was saying at all. I'm against this decision, in fact I'd rather see more golf on terrestrial TV but it's plainly not going to happen.

My point was that Sky have a real commitment to golf and to showing as many events as they can. So while we can criticise the R&A for ending live free-to-air coverage and the BBC for lack of will to retain and improve their coverage, I think Sky deserve some credit.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

garyinderry said:



			Is there really an influx of youngsters taking to pedals?  I just don't see it.
		
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Loads around here - enough to create cycling clubs


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## garyinderry (Feb 3, 2015)

Hasn't hit liverpool that's for sure.  Kids doing wheelies out on the road is all I've come across.


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## GB72 (Feb 3, 2015)

Rugby is mainly on sky and BT and you get loads of kids up the rugby club watching it with their dadS. Maybe golf clubs with sky need to encourage members to bring their families up to watch the open.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 3, 2015)

Lots of middle aged and older men in lycra riding two abreast and annoying the hell out of me and others. Not many young uns viewed on bikes up here. Surprising really. Big proliferation of expensive bike shops but again they are being bought mainly by older blokes.

Great shout regarding rugby. Junior rugby is very strong at club level.


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## SAPCOR1 (Feb 3, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The R&A point to golf numbers reducing in recent years whilst the Open and Master were on live telly - now imo the main reason for the drop in golf is people have prioritised where they spend their money - mainly on living and providing for their family 

So now the R&A have decided to move the last remaining free to air golf event onto a platform where people have to pay To just watch it!

I don't know how they expect to gain more viewers into the sport when they restrict the people who can watch it
		
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What were the viewing figures for last year?  Sky Sports have 6m approx subscribers plus those who have Virgin, BTsport and other platforms.

I personally prefer Sky's sports coverage overall whether it be golf, football, tennis etc and would rather watch the CL final on Sky rather than BBC or ITV

however I do agree for events such as the Open, WC Football etc should also be free-to-air


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## Imurg (Feb 3, 2015)

garyinderry said:



			Hasn't hit liverpool that's for sure.  Kids doing wheelies out on the road is all I've come across.
		
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 Its not just the kids though....
I'm over 50 but didnt start playing until I was 30 - missed out on most of Seve but I turned to the game having seen Faldo and Woosie on the box.
Moving The Open to Sky will prevent newcomers of all ages from getting the bug.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

GB72 said:



			Rugby is mainly on sky and BT and you get loads of kids up the rugby club watching it with their dadS. Maybe golf clubs with sky need to encourage members to bring their families up to watch the open.
		
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The 6 nations is on BBC so the big rugby in this country is still on free to air 

And Rugby Clubs are more "family oriented " - golf clubs not so


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## User62651 (Feb 3, 2015)

Another hugely golf fan disappointed here, I've watched the Open on BBC for 30+ years. I used to get Sky sports years ago just for the golf and thought their team good etc but couldn't justify the cost so packed it in. With a tight household budget and kids it can't be done.

Last year I watched Saturday and Sunday's golf practically all day on BBC as Rory tore it up and it was great, similarly in 2013 when Phil won. Now I'll see some evening highlights but it ain't the same, you need to be involved in the last 18, every shot and every emotion to feel part of it.

Adverts, even limited to 60 sec every 15 mins is still rubbish.

End of a great institution. They call it progress................sigh!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

SAPCOR1 said:



			What were the viewing figures for last year?  Sky Sports have 6m approx subscribers plus those who have Virgin, BTsport and other platforms.

I personally prefer Sky's sports coverage overall whether it be golf, football, tennis etc and would rather watch the CL final on Sky rather than BBC or ITV

however I do agree for events such as the Open, WC Football etc should also be free-to-air
		
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Believe the Open had between 4-5 million each year 

When the master comes around the BBC has more watching their feed in Sat and Sun than watch the Sky coverage 

I personally prefer the BBC coverage - it doesn't have all the gadgets that Sky does but all the gadget for him cover the poor team of commentators etc


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## GB72 (Feb 3, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The 6 nations is on BBC so the big rugby in this country is still on free to air 

And Rugby Clubs are more "family oriented " - golf clubs not so
		
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The 6 nation's will be gone from the BBC soon And the BBC do not deserve to keep it as they do not even show club rugby highhighlights. The fact that golf clubs ate not more family friendly is part of the bigger problem and one they need to sort if they want more parents and kids taking up the sport


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## SAPCOR1 (Feb 3, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Believe the Open had between 4-5 million each year 

When the master comes around the BBC has more watching their feed in Sat and Sun than watch the Sky coverage 

I personally prefer the BBC coverage - it doesn't have all the gadgets that Sky does but all the gadget for him cover the poor team of commentators etc
		
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I actually prefer the Sky commentary team, although Ken Brown is good


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## colint (Feb 3, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Lots of middle aged and older men in lycra riding two abreast and annoying the hell out of me and others. Not many young uns viewed on bikes up here. Surprising really. Big proliferation of expensive bike shops but again they are being bought mainly by older blokes.

Great shout regarding rugby. Junior rugby is very strong at club level.
		
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What's annoying about riding 2 abreast ? It's not illegal ?


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## SAPCOR1 (Feb 3, 2015)

GB72 said:



			The 6 nation's will be gone from the BBC soon And the BBC do not deserve to keep it as they do not even show club rugby highhighlights. The fact that golf clubs ate not more family friendly is part of the bigger problem and one they need to sort if they want more parents and kids taking up the sport
		
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BT Sports are very keen on adding the Six Nations and RWC to their rugby coverage


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

GB72 said:



			The 6 nation's will be gone from the BBC soon And the BBC do not deserve to keep it as they do not even show club rugby highhighlights. The fact that golf clubs ate not more family friendly is part of the bigger problem and one they need to sort if they want more parents and kids taking up the sport
		
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The sport does fit in a family style due to the time it takes - kids don't want to hang around 

Lots of kids play rugby and football - remember it's also sports played in school 

Why should the BBC lose the 6 nations ? They do a good job - the club rugby is done by BT sports after paying a lot of money


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## Martin70 (Feb 3, 2015)

Even though I have Sky I will miss the BBC's coverage. Some things are just better left as they are.

I am not a big fan of Monty's punditry either to be honest.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

SAPCOR1 said:



			I actually prefer the Sky commentary team, although Ken Brown is good
		
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Can't stand them bar Howell 

Brown , Grady , Cotter etc it's all understated and respectful without the need to hype - it's all about the golf instead of being a vehicle to show of new technology in shot centre etc


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## colint (Feb 3, 2015)

GB72 said:



			The 6 nation's will be gone from the BBC soon And the BBC do not deserve to keep it as they do not even show club rugby highhighlights. The fact that golf clubs ate not more family friendly is part of the bigger problem and one they need to sort if they want more parents and kids taking up the sport
		
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Spot on, my club are pretty good at arranging things on bonfire night etc when kids are welcome but the attitude of some of the members at these events is embarrassing. They'd rather have 3 properly attired long standing members in the bar than a host of families being introduced to the club / game.


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## louise_a (Feb 3, 2015)

Definitely bad for the promotion of the sport in my opinion


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## SAPCOR1 (Feb 3, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can't stand them bar Howell 

Brown , Grady , Cotter etc it's all understated and respectful without the need to hype - it's all about the golf instead of being a vehicle to show of new technology in shot centre etc
		
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Andrew Coltart is a nice guy and any time I have met Monty he has been good fun.  David Livingstone is a good anchor man too


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

SAPCOR1 said:



			Andrew Coltart is a nice guy and any time I have met Monty he has been good fun.  David Livingstone is a good anchor man too
		
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It just all feels very corporate when watching them - all false and fake. Monty im sure is a nice guy but when commentating he is dull and self important -Livingstone is again dull - Coltart is ok as is Dougherty.


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## GB72 (Feb 3, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The sport does fit in a family style due to the time it takes - kids don't want to hang around 

Lots of kids play rugby and football - remember it's also sports played in school 

Why should the BBC lose the 6 nations ? They do a good job - the club rugby is done by BT sports after paying a lot of money
		
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Because the BBC shows no interest in the wider game and just wants the crown jewels. If you had suffered years of looking to listen to an elite rugby gane on 5 live onky to hear coverage of league 2 football then you might agree that the BBC gets all it deserves when it comes to sport. As for golf clubs, ideal time for the pro to get a group of kids in a lesson or on the putting green whilst the patrents watch golf or sit them in the junior room etc.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 3, 2015)

colint said:



			What's annoying about riding 2 abreast ? It's not illegal ?
		
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There is a difference between illegal and annoying which is why I never stated it was illegal. Blocking the flow of traffic is very annoying and that is what happens when riders go two abreast and stay there. Think of it another way. Cyclists are there, all lycrad up, and are steaming along a road. In front of them are a group of walkers. To go around them would mean you are on the wrong side of the road and that would be dangerous. If only they walked in single file then you could pass them quite happily. Instead you have to crawl along until eventually you can get past them safely.

Change the scenario to the cyclist who rides two abreast and blocks the road for the faster moving car. Annoying isn't it? Ride single file and then the whole traffic flow is much smoother.


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## Fyldewhite (Feb 3, 2015)

colint said:



			What's annoying about riding 2 abreast ? It's not illegal ?
		
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No, but as discussed on another thread recently it is often stupid, inconsiderate and yes, bloody annoying........however.....

Back on topic, it was probably inevitable. Personally, I'm a fan of the BBC coverage (Peter and all) but I do feel the harking back to "when we were young" and "emulating our heroes" is being overplayed. In those days there were 3 channels, no choice and we had very little option but to watch these sporting events. Yes that did drive participation but I don't think it does in the same way these days. Youngsters have internet, games, DVD, hundreds of channels to pick from and I don't think they will be attracted to golf just because it's on BBC like they were in the old days. It's a pity that the last day coverage can't be shared like the masters has been but the commercial reality is that you get what you pay for and the BBC have a limited budget and can't justify the money for what is in reality a minority sport.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

GB72 said:



			Because the BBC shows no interest in the wider game and just wants the crown jewels. If you had suffered years of looking to listen to an elite rugby gane on 5 live onky to hear coverage of league 2 football then you might agree that the BBC gets all it deserves when it comes to sport. As for golf clubs, ideal time for the pro to get a group of kids in a lesson or on the putting green whilst the patrents watch golf or sit them in the junior room etc.
		
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The BBC has to cater for everyone but just a rugby or football or golf fans they have to ensure they have a good spread - club rugby doesn't appeal to the masses - the 6 nations does , as does the WC final or the Open or the Olympics - they are events that even non sports fans watch - that's why they are the Crown Jewels and should be protected 

Same with radio coverage - it has to appeal to the masses - club rugby in this country doesn't.

As for golf clubs - how many have "junior rooms" - how many adults want to sit around a golf club for 4 hours watching when they could be at home watching whilst also doing other stuff 

Pros do have group kid lessons during the summer but then they still compete against the sports that are in schools every week - football , rugby , cricket , tennis and athletics - all sports that don't involve having a golf course. Golf as a sport and what it is involved means it's hard to compare it to other sports that are on the school timetable


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## colint (Feb 3, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			There is a difference between illegal and annoying which is why I never stated it was illegal. Blocking the flow of traffic is very annoying and that is what happens when riders go two abreast and stay there. Think of it another way. Cyclists are there, all lycrad up, and are steaming along a road. In front of them are a group of walkers. To go around them would mean you are on the wrong side of the road and that would be dangerous. If only they walked in single file then you could pass them quite happily. Instead you have to crawl along until eventually you can get past them safely.

Change the scenario to the cyclist who rides two abreast and blocks the road for the faster moving car. Annoying isn't it? Ride single file and then the whole traffic flow is much smoother.
		
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It's easier and safer to pass a group riding 2 abreast than single file. If you can't pass 2 abreast safely then it's unlikely you can pass single file safely, unless you class safely as squeezing past and just not hitting the cyclist. It's not different than passing a slow moving car. 10 riders 2 abreast take up less specie than 10 riders in single file. I appreciate people vehicles other than cars using the roads annoys some people, but walkers, cars, cyclists, tractors etc are all part entitled to use the road any way they want if it's legal, whether the impatient find it annoying or not

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wBjPU43Sd8k/UHSjy2xPx8I/AAAAAAAAAAk/KD6crsEOeDk/s1600/both.bmp


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## Piece (Feb 3, 2015)

Snelly said:



			No.  You are completely failing to grasp the point.   Cycling is in a real boom period because a huge amount of people are seeing British cyclists succeed *and want to emulate them*.  It is that simple.
		
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Just a big fat NO. Cycling took off because it was a combination of these items: fitness, finance, environmental, long-term plan, investment *and* British success. Cycling became a real alternative in the recession years as a cheaper form of transport, whether its popping out to the shops or the daily commute. There was also the long-term plan behind British cycling to build on the success of Boardman and Queally (and even Millar). Further, and sorry for you to hear, the Sky investment helped too. It certainly wasn't _solely_ down to people wanting to become the next 'Hoy' or 'Wiggins'. If you want further info, read any article on why cycling has worked in this country and you'll see that I have fully grasped the point, in spades.  




			Even the thickest numbskull should be able to see this.
		
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You don't need this last line to make a "valid point".


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## bladeplayer (Feb 3, 2015)

Snelly said:



Participation in the game is dwindling so the R&A decide to restrict the jewel of their crown to a broadcaster that millions cannot or refuse to pay for access.

The utter stupidity of this decision beggars belief.   You only have to look how a similar course of action has affected participation levels in cricket to see the short term folly of this course of action. 

A dark day for the R&A, choosing Murdoch's dosh over safeguarding accessibility to golf for terrestrial TV viewers.   

Fools.  As is anyone who supports their decision.
		
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Said something along the same lines to R&A on twitter ,

Kirsty Gallacher was on saying how great it was , so i told her the same  


IMO its a sell out by the people trusted to grow the game , they make strides in changing male only clubs and seem to be aware clubs are struggling & need to attract new and especially new young members so what do they do ? 
Take it of terrestrial TV so therefore loosing more widespread coverage , 

UP 1 ladder but down two snakes IMO im afraid


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## Snelly (Feb 3, 2015)

Piece said:



			Just a big fat NO. Cycling took off because it was a combination of these items: fitness, finance, environmental, long-term plan, investment *and* British success. Cycling became a real alternative in the recession years as a cheaper form of transport, whether its popping out to the shops or the daily commute. There was also the long-term plan behind British cycling to build on the success of Boardman and Queally (and even Millar). Further, and sorry for you to hear, the Sky investment helped too. It certainly wasn't _solely_ down to people wanting to become the next 'Hoy' or 'Wiggins'. If you want further info, read any article on why cycling has worked in this country and you'll see that I have fully grasped the point, in spades.  



You don't need this last line to make a "valid point".
		
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It must've just been a massive, fortuitous coincidence then that this boom took off just as GB cyclists won loads of events and medals that WERE SHOWN ON TERRESTRIAL TV!!!!!!!!!!!!!


People are cycling because of a truck load of gold medals and the first Brit winner of the Tour.  All of which were seen by millions of people in their living rooms.   The other factors you mention are valid but dwarfed by this.


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## Snelly (Feb 3, 2015)

Piece said:



			You don't need this last line to make a "valid point".
		
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You are probably right and if this caused offence then please accept my apologies.


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## Piece (Feb 3, 2015)

Snelly said:



			It must've just been a massive, fortuitous coincidence then that this boom took off just as GB cyclists won loads of events and medals that WERE SHOWN ON TERRESTRIAL TV!!!!!!!!!!!!!


People are cycling because of a truck load of gold medals and the first Brit winner of the Tour.  All of which were seen by millions of people in their living rooms.   The other factors you mention are valid but dwarfed by this.
		
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This is worth saying: cycling had a mini-boom after Boardman's gold medal success in 1992 Olympics. Then it fell on its face despite being seen by millions. Then another mini-boom after Hoy and Wiggins success on the track at the Athens games. But this was all on the track, not really accessible for the millions, thus again, cycling didn't really take off. It was only when the British cycling plan realised the road-racers as well as the track guys, it gave rise to success and then sustained boom that you are referring too. Although you are not wrong in what you say, you have to consider that its not quite as clear cut as you argue.




			You are probably right and if this caused offence then please accept my apologies.
		
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Cheers, no problem.


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## Imurg (Feb 3, 2015)

Putting the quality of the coverage to one side, if The Open is on terrestrial TV then everyone who has access to a TV has the opportunity to see it and maybe decide to take the game up.
Moving it to Sky simply has to reduce the potential for people watching it and beginning to play.
It can be the best coverage in the world but if it reduces the numbers watching how can that be good for the game?


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## Rumpokid (Feb 3, 2015)

The BBC ought to be ashamed of themselves.The people at the top have no interest in sport whatsoever, or else a corporation this big should have a dedicated sports channel..
They are awash with money, so that does not cut it with me regarding losing the open to Sky.
They fund non descript channels abroad, the waste of time cbeebies, parliament and BBC 3.
Also, they have started to send front line news readers and broadcasters to cover news stories abroad, instead of leaving it to the foreign correspondent...At least we have got the World Netball Championships in 2020 to look forward too..You couldn't make it up.


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## Jimaroid (Feb 3, 2015)

I'll say it again. 

Participation numbers have declined whilst The Open has been on the BBC. It's already evident that the BBC aren't a solution to golf's problems. So it's time to try something new.


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## Piece (Feb 3, 2015)

Jimaroid said:



			I'll say it again. 

*Participation numbers have declined whilst The Open has been on the BBC*. It's already evident that the BBC aren't a solution to golf's problems. So it's time to try something new.
		
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You can't argue with that.


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## sportsbob (Feb 3, 2015)

Ridiculous! how are you supposed to attract new/young players to the game (so that our clubs can then flourish and spend more money on the course for us golfers) when all the golfing administrators want to do is line their own pockets with cash by not having any golf on terrestrial tv. Highlights - can't see me allowing my kids to stay up late at night to catch the highlights


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## nta73 (Feb 3, 2015)

Does not matter who has it! Sports coverage is getting hard work imo, Too much hype and build up, too much looking back through past years(we know what happened last year, we watched it). How many commentators does it really need?. Adverts everywhere, coverage brought to you by blah blah blah! etc, i just want quality pictures and sound, and a bloke with a microphone to let me know whats happening. Runs for cover!


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## Tongo (Feb 3, 2015)

Such a sad day. Thank you bbc, whilst it has been great to have you cover the Open for so many years you have, like you did with the cricket, sat in your ivory tower with a certain arrogance whilst mimicking an ostrich with his head in the sand. Television has moved on and the beeb have shown that they either cant or dont want to move with it. Yet i will still have to fork out for the licence fee to pay for whatever dross you produce instead of stumping up the cash for rights to the Open.


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## patricks148 (Feb 3, 2015)

Jimaroid said:



			I'll say it again. 

Participation numbers have declined whilst The Open has been on the BBC. It's already evident that the BBC aren't a solution to golf's problems. So it's time to try something new.
		
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Too right Jim


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## Snelly (Feb 3, 2015)

Saw this on Twitter and thought it was a very accurate summing up. 

"Another iconic British sporting occasion goes to the Channel built for chavs, run by wide boys and owned by a extremely nasty Aussie/Yank who owns publications that love to hack murdered childrens phones. Good old Golf, the price of everything and the value of nothing."


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## Tongo (Feb 3, 2015)

Snelly said:



			Saw this on Twitter and thought it was a very accurate summing up. 

"Another iconic British sporting occasion goes to the Channel built for chavs, run by wide boys and owned by a extremely nasty Aussie/Yank who owns publications that love to hack murdered childrens phones. Good old Golf, the price of everything and the value of nothing."
		
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That is a good quote!


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## Crow (Feb 3, 2015)

What annoys me is that Sky always insist on an exclusive rights package.

If their coverage was so good then surely they could afford to share the rights with terrestrial TV and most people would flock to Sky to get a piece of the action anyway?

I don't suppose it would have anything to do with Sky only being interested in making as big a profit as possible rather than any passion for the game of golf?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

Jimaroid said:



			I'll say it again. 

Participation numbers have declined whilst The Open has been on the BBC. It's already evident that the BBC aren't a solution to golf's problems. So it's time to try something new.
		
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I'll give you a reason why numbers have declined - economy and cost 

So now people have to not only pay to play they also have to pay to watch - how is that going yo incesse numbers


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## hines57 (Feb 3, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sad day 

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 Totally agree. How many young potential golfers will miss out on the opportunity to see the best in the game on TV that doesn't cost a fortune to watch!! Can't see how this makes golf more accessible to the masses.


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## Dave3498 (Feb 3, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The 6 nations is on BBC so the big rugby in this country is still on free to air 

And Rugby Clubs are more "family oriented " - golf clubs not so
		
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We can't see Twickenham game on the BBC.  They have been sold to Sky.


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## Hickory_Hacker (Feb 3, 2015)

3 cheers for Sky ... Buckle up and pay up this could be the ride of your lives  :thup:


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## colint (Feb 3, 2015)

Crow said:



			What annoys me is that Sky always insist on an exclusive rights package.

If their coverage was so good then surely they could afford to share the rights with terrestrial TV and most people would flock to Sky to get a piece of the action anyway?

I don't suppose it would have anything to do with Sky only being interested in making as big a profit as possible rather than any passion for the game of golf?
		
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What passion have the BBC shown for golf though ? Apart from The Open do they do anything else ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

Dave3498 said:



			We can't see Twickenham game on the BBC.  They have been sold to Sky.
		
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Are you sure about that ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

colint said:



			What passion have the BBC shown for golf though ? Apart from The Open do they do anything else ?
		
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In what way can a "non dedicated" telly channel show "passion" ?


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 3, 2015)

I don't see the point in blaming Sky or the BBC. The R&A are the ones at fault here, happy to take  the few extra sheckles Sky were offering for the event coverage.
I remember watching Sandy Lyle win at Royal St Georges  years ago, and thinking I could like that game. Free to air is the only real way to reach the masses and gain interest from your future participants.


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## SAPCOR1 (Feb 3, 2015)

Snelly said:



			Saw this on Twitter and thought it was a very accurate summing up. 
I
"Another iconic British sporting occasion goes to the Channel built for chavs, run by wide boys and owned by a extremely nasty Aussie/Yank who owns publications that love to hack murdered childrens phones. Good old Golf, the price of everything and the value of nothing."
		
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Built for chavs? Silly comment to make and silly to agree with


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## Tongo (Feb 3, 2015)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I don't see the point in blaming Sky or the BBC. The R&A are the ones at fault here, happy to take  the few extra sheckles Sky were offering for the event coverage.
*I remember watching Sandy Lyle win at Royal St Georges  years ago, and thinking I could like that game. Free to air is the only real way to reach the masses and gain interest from your future participants*.
		
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I had a similar moment that got me into the game but some highlight that numbers were going down when the Open is/was on peasant tv. Of course, the difference was that there was at least half a dozen tourneys on peasant tv when i got into the game whilst one tournament is more likely to attract some people rather than none.


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## Crow (Feb 3, 2015)

colint said:



			What passion have the BBC shown for golf though ? Apart from The Open do they do anything else ?
		
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Might that be because all other tournaments bar a few have been bought out by Sky?

As far as I'm aware they still have the Ladies Open but Sky will probably go after that now that they've secured The Open and The Masters.


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## Jimaroid (Feb 3, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So now people have to not only pay to play they also have to pay to watch - how is that going yo incesse numbers
		
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Do you think the R&A having more money to invest into development initiatives is a bad thing?


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## Tongo (Feb 3, 2015)

Jimaroid said:



			Do you think the R&A *having more money* to invest into development initiatives is a bad thing?
		
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I'd imagine this was one of the rationale listed by the ECB for taking cricket off of terrestrial tv in 2005. Hasnt quite worked though has it?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 3, 2015)

Personally I have no problem with this. If the BBC didn't want it, there were other terrestrial channels that could have bid but didn't. Sky have made a good offer, signed a long term deal and I think will do a very good job when it comes to broadcasting the event, including the build up and highlights.


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## Darren24 (Feb 3, 2015)

Sky have made a good offer, signed a long term deal and I think will do a very good job when it comes to broadcasting the event, including the build up and highlights.[/QUOTE]

If you don't mind paying sky's extortionate prices!


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## KJT123 (Feb 3, 2015)

Sky are gradually killing sport. Viewing figures, I predict, will plummet meaning that participation will decrease. Couple that with the fact Mark Roe will inevitably be involved and it will be a complete disaster.


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## Rumpokid (Feb 3, 2015)

Another coup for the benefit cheats, dole wallas and scroungers, seem to be the only ones who can afford Sky, where i live...Oops, forgot..It is there human right to have the full package, along with carrier bag of nightly super strength to watch it with.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 3, 2015)

KJT123 said:



			Sky are gradually killing sport. Viewing figures, I predict, will plummet meaning that participation will decrease. Couple that with the fact Mark Roe will inevitably be involved and it will be a complete disaster.
		
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Participation is already dropping so that's rather a mute argument. To be honest I have Virgin which is a long way cheaper than Sky but even if prices go up, there's other options (Now TV etc) to subscribe to watch just the golf


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## colint (Feb 3, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In what way can a "non dedicated" telly channel show "passion" ?
		
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Show more than one golf event in the whole year ? How much passion do they show for celebrity "dancing" and baking ? More than golf I'd say


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## Darren24 (Feb 3, 2015)

True figures are dropping but this is certainly not going to help. Kids see something on TV and want it, now it's been removed unless you pay it has taken away one of the main influences for kids to start.


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## Rumpokid (Feb 3, 2015)

colint said:



			Show more than one golf event in the whole year ? How much passion do they show for celebrity "dancing" and baking ? More than golf I'd say
		
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To much IMHO, however, it is scary, the number of male colleagues i work with, have no interest in sport, but who know their way around a packet of homepride self raising and a rolling pin, and are also up to date with latest 10's from Len....


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## Ethan (Feb 3, 2015)

At one time I would have been annoyed at this, despite being a Sky Sports subscriber for years. But the BBC blew it badly, and Sky have shown that they can trusted with golf and the big events.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

Jimaroid said:



			Do you think the R&A having more money to invest into development initiatives is a bad thing?
		
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what exactky will they do with Â£3mil ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

colint said:



			Show more than one golf event in the whole year ? How much passion do they show for celebrity "dancing" and baking ? More than golf I'd say
		
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You do realise that the BBC isnt a dedicated sports or golf channel so it has to cater for "everyone" 

Which other golf events should they broadcast considering they used to have both the men's and ladies open ?


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## Dave3498 (Feb 3, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are you sure about that ?
		
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If England are playing at Twickenham the the match is only on Sky and you have to pay to see it.  If you live in France or Italy or Spain, you don't have to pay for the Sky coverage.  It's only English viewers that have to pay a Australian to see their national team play at home.  The same will be true of the World Cup this year.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

Dave3498 said:



			If England are playing at Twickenham the the match is only on Sky and you have to pay to see it.  If you live in France or Italy or Spain, you don't have to pay for the Sky coverage.  It's only English viewers that have to pay a Australian to see their national team play at home.  The same will be true of the World Cup this year.
		
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Not in the 6 Nations - BBC have the 6 nations and ITV have the World Cup 

Sky show the Autumn Internayionals


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 3, 2015)

Darren24 said:



			True figures are dropping but this is certainly not going to help. Kids see something on TV and want it, now it's been removed unless you pay it has taken away one of the main influences for kids to start.
		
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I would argue that many kids already have Sky and are more influenced by watching their favourite PL stars every week


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## Rumpokid (Feb 3, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You do realise that the BBC isnt a dedicated sports or golf channel so it has to cater for "everyone" 

Which other golf events should they broadcast considering they used to have both the men's and ladies open ?
		
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Pro Celebrity golf... and Pot Black while they are at it...And indoor League....'Al se thee'


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## colint (Feb 3, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You do realise that the BBC isnt a dedicated sports or golf channel so it has to cater for "everyone" 

Which other golf events should they broadcast considering they used to have both the men's and ladies open ?
		
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I do realise that, but thanks for checking. A golfing program doesn't necessarily have to be just a golf event. They used to do things like a round with allis etc, must be something else they could come up. They manage to stretch out baking to bake off, celebrity bake off, red nose bake off, best of bake off recipes, xmas bake off.

I'm not really bothered that the bbd have lost it, but think it's ridiculous that somehow it's being held up as some travesty that the home of tv golf in the uk has been hard done to. They make no effort with golf imho and decided not to make a decent bid to renew the contract. They clearly don't give a stuff


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 3, 2015)

To be honest a round with Alliss, pro celebrity et al have had their day


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

Rumpokid said:



			Pro Celebrity golf... and Pot Black while they are at it...And indoor League....'Al se thee'
		
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That doesnt appeal to the masses im afraid


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

colint said:



			I do realise that, but thanks for checking. A golfing program doesn't necessarily have to be just a golf event. They used to do things like a round with allis etc, must be something else they could come up. *They manage to stretch out baking to bake off, celebrity bake off, red nose bake off, best of bake off recipes, xmas bake off.*

I'm not really bothered that the bbd have lost it, but think it's ridiculous that somehow it's being held up as some travesty that the home of tv golf in the uk has been hard done to. They make no effort with golf imho and decided not to make a decent bid to renew the contract. They clearly don't give a stuff
		
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They stretch to those programs because millions upon millions watch them 

They have to budget to cater for everyone - not just sports fans or even golf fans.


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## Tongo (Feb 3, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They stretch to those programs because millions upon millions watch them 

They have to budget to cater for everyone - not just sports fans or even golf fans.
		
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Yeah, and they also waste money on travesties like Still Open All Hours. If Pro Celebrity golf has had its day then how come that has been brought back?


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## colint (Feb 3, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			To be honest a round with Alliss, pro celebrity et al have had their day
		
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I agree, but surely they could come up with something else. We've effectively got pro celebrity ball room dancing


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## SocketRocket (Feb 3, 2015)

The R@A should be ashamed of themselves, they have deprived so may from watching the premier Golf Open for 20 pieces of Murdock's silver.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Yeah, and they also waste money on travesties like Still Open All Hours. If Pro Celebrity golf has had its day then how come that has been brought back?
		
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Because people will like it :thup:


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## garyinderry (Feb 3, 2015)

Hoping kids see golf on the TV and want to play it is as likely as me watching American football and wanting to play it.  One ''football'' game a year does me.

What golfers need to do if they want the sport to grow is actually take someone they know, be it a family member, friend,  neighbour whatever and get the into the sport.  Take them to the range. Take them to round a 9 hole. Teach them what to do as best you can. Encourage them. 

How many on here can say they have helped a complete beginner get some interest in the game and guide them until they are playing on their own?   how long ago was this, recently?


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## Tongo (Feb 3, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because people will like it :thup:
		
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Surely not, its dreadful!


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## Darren24 (Feb 3, 2015)

garyinderry said:



			Hoping kids see golf on the TV and want to play it is as likely as me watching American football and wanting to play it.  One ''football'' game a year does me.

What golfers need to do if they want the sport to grow is actually take someone they know, be it a family member, friend,  neighbour whatever and get the into the sport.  Take them to the range. Take them to round a 9 hole. Teach them what to do as best you can. Encourage them. 

How many on here can say they have helped a complete beginner get some interest in the game and guide them until they are playing on their own?   how long ago was this, recently?
		
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Still in the process with my dad then my son will be next albeit when he gets to about 2 1\2.


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## Dave3498 (Feb 3, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not in the 6 Nations - BBC have the 6 nations and ITV have the World Cup 

Sky show the Autumn Internayionals
		
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You're right Phil.  My apologies for that.  I was going on the last six nations when we only saw England home games as evening highlights.  Maybe it was the BBC who decided not to show the matches live.  The situation with the World Cup seems confused.  An article in The Guardian in 2008 said tha Sky had signed a deal for all games until 2015, but obviously that didn't include the World Cup matches because I have now learned that ITV outbid others to cover all the WC matches.  I've never been so pleased to be wrong because it means that I will be able to watch England play at home. Sorry again.


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## garyinderry (Feb 3, 2015)

Darren24 said:



			Still in the process with my dad then my son will be next albeit when he gets to about 2 1\2.
		
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Good stuff. That's the way to grow the game.  Before long they too can get people into the sport.  Kind of a 'pass it on' mentality.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

Dave3498 said:



			You're right Phil.  My apologies for that.  I was going on the last six nations when we only saw England home games as evening highlights.  Maybe it was the BBC who decided not to show the matches live.  The situation with the World Cup seems confused.  An article in The Guardian in 2008 said tha Sky had signed a deal for all games until 2015, but obviously that didn't include the World Cup matches because I have now learned that ITV outbid others to cover all the WC matches.  I've never been so pleased to be wrong because it means that I will be able to watch England play at home. Sorry again.
		
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Yeah Sky about 6 years ago got rights for all England Home games but i think the RFU re negotiated the deal to ensure it staye don free to air :thup:


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## Tongo (Feb 3, 2015)

Darren24 said:



			Still in the process with my dad then my son will be next albeit when he gets to about 2 1\2.
		
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Likewise, i taught my old man the basics.


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## Dave3498 (Feb 3, 2015)

I know now why the BBC will not be covering the Open.  It's because Tim Wannacotts broadcasting schedule is already full for 2017 and beyond.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Surely not, its dreadful!
		
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It is dreadful to some but the older people love it becasue of who its about


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## User20205 (Feb 3, 2015)

I thought I'd be more disappointed, but really I'm just crushed by the weight of inevitability 

Last year I spent more time listening to it on radio 5, their coverage is excellent and staying I believe. 
 On face value It seems a strange decision by the r&a. It seems to contradict their participation message. However I'm not sure of the example of cricket. They're 10 years down the line with sky, what's happened there to participation & youth development??


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 3, 2015)

garyinderry said:



			Hoping kids see golf on the TV and want to play it is as likely as me watching American football and wanting to play it.  One ''football'' game a year does me.

What golfers need to do if they want the sport to grow is actually take someone they know, be it a family member, friend,  neighbour whatever and get the into the sport.  Take them to the range. Take them to round a 9 hole. Teach them what to do as best you can. Encourage them. 

How many on here can say they have helped a complete beginner get some interest in the game and guide them until they are playing on their own?   how long ago was this, recently?
		
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Totally agree. How many public tennis courts get inundated for a few weeks post Wimbledon and then stand idle the rest of the year. If you were really going to get into a sport you'd learn the basics and try and get involved somewhere, whether that's someone introducing you or going out on your own and finding someone to show you the ropes


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## Darren24 (Feb 3, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Likewise, i taught my old man the basics.
		
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It's a good feeling and a little sense of achievement when you see some1 improve and you know you helped, although I need allot of help myself


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## sweatysock41 (Feb 3, 2015)

I'm disappointed in the decision but not in the least bit surprised.  It has long been the case that Sky has positioned itself to be the only real option for live sport.  Not content with being a subscriber channel you then have to pay extra if you want the sport/movies/whatever only because they have paid ridiculous amounts of money for those rights and they need to make a profit for their shareholders.  What would happen if everyone stopped paying or these subscription services?  The business model would fail - Sky rely on getting sufficient subscribers to these channels to make a profit - if they don't get them then they will drop that sport.  It's absolutely nothing to do with supporting the game whether tat is golf, football, rugby whatever.  Sky needs the monopoly to make the profit hence they will outbid almost all other channels.  I love the open and the drama that comes with it but will never pay an additional annual subscription or indeed a one off payment just to watch it live.  I can afford it but choose not to pay.


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## sawtooth (Feb 3, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sad day 

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I agree.

Need to watch pseudo-live, Sky+ for an hour then fast forward the adverts to get by.


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## Qwerty (Feb 3, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			, pro celebrity et al have had their day
		
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Well if they Dragged Trevor Brooking & Wogan back out....

But If the BBC Actually Wanted to make Golf 'Work' as a product, with some form of weekly golfing celeb fest I'm sure they could.. They'd just have to ham it up a bit, I'm sure they wouldn't be short of Participants Or applicants to host it.  IMO if they can make baking work then Golf should have no problem

It appears though, as an organisation/cooperation they're just not interested in golf as a sport or its future, the question is why. 

Who would of thought that the old format of come dancing could be turned around into what it is now?

Ok participation numbers are in decline but There are still Approx 800.000 club Golfers in the UK and including casual Golfers 3 million. How many enthusiastic bakers are out there?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 3, 2015)

Qwerty said:



			Well if they Dragged Trevor Brooking & Wogan back out....

But If the BBC Actually Wanted to make Golf 'Work' as a product, with some form of weekly golfing celeb fest I'm sure they could.. They'd just have to ham it up a bit, I'm sure they wouldn't be short of Participants Or applicants to host it.  IMO if they can make baking work then Golf should have no problem

It appears though, as an organisation/cooperation they're just not interested in golf as a sport or its future, the question is why. 

Who would of thought that the old format of come dancing could be turned around into what it is now?

Ok participation numbers are in decline but There are still Approx 800.000 club Golfers in the UK and including casual Golfers 3 million. How many enthusiastic bakers are out there?
		
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But surely in this day and age these celebs would want payment as would the pros and so it becomes a hugely expensive programme without factoring in the additional and exorbitant OB costs. What would it attract as an audience even on prime time (highly unlikely it was never that first time round). Maybe 300,00 tops (I plucked that figure BTW) and if you look at the cost to audience ratio it's obvious why it'll never happen. The thing with Bake Off, Celeb Dancing etc is they all have huge spin offs and so there's more chance to recoup costs.


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## colint (Feb 3, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But surely in this day and age these celebs would want payment as would the pros and so it becomes a hugely expensive programme without factoring in the additional and exorbitant OB costs. What would it attract as an audience even on prime time (highly unlikely it was never that first time round). Maybe 300,00 tops (I plucked that figure BTW) and if you look at the cost to audience ratio it's obvious why it'll never happen. The thing with Bake Off, Celeb Dancing etc is they all have huge spin offs and so there's more chance to recoup costs.
		
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Spin offs is a good point, the bbc make a fortune through book and dvd sales, and selling the format to other countries


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## Qwerty (Feb 3, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But surely in this day and age these celebs would want payment as would the pros and so it becomes a hugely expensive programme without factoring in the additional and exorbitant OB costs. What would it attract as an audience even on prime time (highly unlikely it was never that first time round). Maybe 300,00 tops (I plucked that figure BTW) and if you look at the cost to audience ratio it's obvious why it'll never happen. The thing with Bake Off, Celeb Dancing etc is they all have huge spin offs and so there's more chance to recoup costs.
		
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Im no expert due to my occupation as a gas engineer..
 I'd say though that most of the 'celebs' would view it as enjoyable exposure and would be glad just to get their 'boat race' on TV. I don't think they'd be overly expensive.
I'd think Some of the pros would jump at it, Poulter would probably pay them if it meant being in the spotlight for 30 mins

Have you seen that "the jump" nonsense that's on at the moment?
I'd imagine its costing Channel 4 a few quid to keep Joey Essex & co on that mountain in the alps for a week or so.

Operating costs.. Marriot & De Vere courses, free advertising for them.

As I said I'm no expert, but with some of the celeb sh1te that's on at the moment I'd don't see why it wouldn't work.


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## SAPCOR1 (Feb 3, 2015)

G



Qwerty said:



			Im no expert due to my occupation as a gas engineer..
 I'd say though that most of the 'celebs' would view it as enjoyable exposure and would be glad just to get their 'boat race' on TV. I don't think they'd be overly expensive.
I'd think Some of the pros would jump at it, Poulter would probably pay them if it meant being in the spotlight for 30 mins

Have you seen that "the jump" nonsense that's on at the moment?
I'd imagine its costing Channel 4 a few quid to keep Joey Essex & co on that mountain in the alps for a week or so.

Operating costs.. Marriot & De Vere courses, free advertising for them.
		
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DeVere have sold off all their decent courses to QHotels


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## freddielong (Feb 3, 2015)

Very sad day for golf


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## TheJezster (Feb 3, 2015)

A better sports TVs coverage company is getting the open? Well that's good then. Can't see an issue there, plus it frees up money for the bbc to invest in some new programmes for the people who have no need or use for sky. This is a good thing for golf, the majority of people have access to sky these days and those that don't who want to watch can start subscribing or watch via now tv or via an app.


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## Qwerty (Feb 3, 2015)

I kinda think that the BBC have contributed to the stuffy image that some perceive golf of having via Peter Alliss & co's ramblings over the last however many years,
and it's now possibly due to this image that they've now decided golf is no longer for them.


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## Qwerty (Feb 3, 2015)

From the R&A.

http://www.theopen.com/NewsVideo/Ne...rom Peter Dawson Chief Executive of The RandA


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## Crow (Feb 3, 2015)

The R&A? 

Pah, I fart in their general direction.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 3, 2015)

Qwerty said:



			From the R&A.

http://www.theopen.com/NewsVideo/Ne...rom Peter Dawson Chief Executive of The RandA

Click to expand...

Load of Borax.    Hope their blazer buttons go rusty.


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## Smiffy (Feb 4, 2015)

I don't have Sky, as I don't like being held to ransom to watch what I want to watch. I will suffer in silence, or grudgingly buy a day/weeks pass on NowTV for Â£6.99 if I really (really) wanted to watch something.
But the days of kids watching the Open on TV and wanting to emulate their sporting heroes has gone. Sorry.
30 years ago, it was different. There was nothing else to do.
But today? If I switch the telly on to watch a days coverage of the Open, my kids will get out of the room as quickly as they can and go into their rooms to fire up their computers, tablets, xbox's or playstations and play World of Codpiece, or whatever it is they play.
Me? I was around when Neil Armstrong and Co. went to the moon. Fascinated me, and still does. Any programme about the space shuttle or space exploration in general and I am still fascinated. I'd watch every space shuttle launch I could. My kids couldn't be bothered. They've seen it all before in computer games, CGI saturated films, it's of no interest to them whatsoever.
It's a different world we live in today. Sadly.
I'll miss Allis & co. I really will.
But my kids don't even know who he is.


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## jp15g08 (Feb 4, 2015)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/go...-the-BBC-should-not-be-seen-as-a-disaster.htm
lnteresting take on the switch in the telegraph today.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2015)

jp15g08 said:



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/go...-the-BBC-should-not-be-seen-as-a-disaster.htm
lnteresting take on the switch in the telegraph today.
		
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Link isn't working mate?


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## CheltenhamHacker (Feb 4, 2015)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/go...the-BBC-should-not-be-seen-as-a-disaster.html
There you go Phil


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## Smiffy (Feb 4, 2015)

I personally think that 2 hours of the best action (as will be shown in the proposed highlights show) will be more of a draw than watching 15 hours of seagulls hanging in the breeze, the odd boat or two bobbing up and down out at sea, someone licking an ice cream and somebody elses hat being blown off interspersed with a few putts and people milling around doing nothing. You might get lucky and get the odd shot of somebody else having a slash in a bush to liven it up a bit.
Lost count of the numbers of times I've dozed off watching "live" golf.


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## Odvan (Feb 4, 2015)

Article makes a valid point re viewing figures - something that hasn't really been picked up on in the thread. I don't quite understand the angst toward the R&A in here for this decision other than 'tradition'. A tradition which stemmed from those mad, dark years of just 4 channels, then wow, 5 channels. The rest as they say... And perceived 'golfing traditions' are what have been blamed for a certain sports decline, isn't/wasn't it...?

...I'm sure that over the last 6 months there have been a couple of threads on here highlighting the demise of Club golf participation over the last 3 years with the relevant links so who should be bashed for that? Looking at some comments on here 'from the other side' it should be the BBC, in that case? After all, they annually screen 4/5 days of out-and-out golf and therefore, with it being such a necessity for the good of the sport, would have expected anything but a decline... 

Event over. Door shut. Hurrah for the BBC.

The highlights show will be good to watch - no different to MOTD and if anything is more likely to capture the imagination of those wannabee golfing upstarts (whatever age) rather than turning them off listening to Allis go on about a Tea Lady at a half-way house who washed her tea-towels at the 10th's water-hazard in 1963. But I do hope Ken Brown gets recruited by them in much the same way they were quick to recruit Brundle from for the F1 coverage.

One thing is a cert in all this, Sky and the R&A I'm sure (i bl00dy hope!) will have pledged time and money into more academy's, more community presence and even more into junior golf. I'm sure of this - and all the time the BEEB would have virtually ignored golf for the other 360 days and we know why - they're beholden to the license payer.

I think it's a short-sighted opinion to say its a bad move or they've 'sold their soul' - if participation/membership is declining perhaps a cash injection that the R&A weren't getting previously will help - I guess time will tell.

Its a great move for the sport *in my humble opinion*


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2015)

In regards money from Sky deals going into grass roots of the sport 

How has that worked out in regards - cricket ? Football ? Rugby ? - participation numbers have all dropped over the years , crowds struggling at some sports

Has the money made football better in this country ? That's a debate 

The article mentioned an extra Â£35mil into golf ? does anyone really see that going anywhere near golf clubs ? 

It's great of the article to mention how little the price is - it's still a price. 

Viewing figures on sky will always be lower - when it comes to the Masters the BBC has higher viewing figures than Sky 

Participation numbers in all sports has reduced over the years - Is that to do with Sky - possibly not , more to do with the game console generation. When I was a child I watched a sport on telly and then me and my friends went out and played it - football , cricket , golf etc. 

Thankfully we still have the Olympics which inspires people but every 4 years isn't enough. 

I'm a massive sports fan but I do worry for the future in this country - this is another step backward imo


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2015)

I think this is a good read for those vehemently opposed to change.

http://bit.ly/1F5aAcg


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2015)

The question I would ask is - how many "non golf" fans will now watch it ? Most golf fans have Sky already yet still doesn't pull in the viewers - they mention the BBC only gets a million on a Friday - I will be amazed if Sky gets near that on the Friday - I will be amazed if they get near half the peak the BBC did 

Golf fans may pay Â£10.99 for a weeks worth of Open golf - but how many "non golf fans" who switched over for a quick watch will pay Â£10.99 to watch golf for 4 days ? Â£10.99 on top of the license fee they pay - Â£10.99 is more than they used to have pay - and do you have to get a Now TV box as well ? 

No matter how Sky produce it the size of the audience who watch the Open has just decreased.


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## Slab (Feb 4, 2015)

Not sure how to view participation figures

I doubt that now or when I was growing up it would included me & mates playing road tennis with court lines drawn in dry mud or stumps drawn against someones wall or footie on the local park, hitting a golf ball round a field etc etc. Certainly did me no harm in getting some exercise and having fun but as I say I'm not sure I would've appeared on anyone's radar 

Maybe they are only interested in participation when money changes hands! 

Sky will do a good job with the Open and we can either watch highlights, use pay TV or watch using other methods that aren't authorised


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## Darren24 (Feb 4, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In regards money from Sky deals going into grass roots of the sport 

How has that worked out in regards - cricket ? Football ? Rugby ? - participation numbers have all dropped over the years , crowds struggling at some sports

Has the money made football better in this country ? That's a debate 

The article mentioned an extra Â£35mil into golf ? does anyone really see that going anywhere near golf clubs ? 

It's great of the article to mention how little the price is - it's still a price. 

Viewing figures on sky will always be lower - when it comes to the Masters the BBC has higher viewing figures than Sky 

Participation numbers in all sports has reduced over the years - Is that to do with Sky - possibly not , more to do with the game console generation. When I was a child I watched a sport on telly and then me and my friends went out and played it - football , cricket , golf etc. 

Thankfully we still have the Olympics which inspires people but every 4 years isn't enough. 

I'm a massive sports fan but I do worry for the future in this country - this is another step backward imo
		
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i totally agree with you here.


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## Tongo (Feb 4, 2015)

Reading some comments it seems apparent that some people cant differentiate between what's good for them and what's good for the game.


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## need_my_wedge (Feb 4, 2015)

I think I'm sitting down in the camp of the last two linked articles re: the Open on Sky not being an actual disaster, but may actually be good for the game.


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2015)

An interesting article about cricket and free to air tv. Warning its a very long article but some reference to the open in there, especially when the MPs reviewed in 2010 the FTA events home test matches and the open golf were recommended to the list.

Also a snippet that Labour were talking about one of their manifesto points for the election next yr being about free to air sports again intimating adding the open to the list.

http://www.thefulltoss.com/england-cricket-blog/lost-key-crown-jewels/


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2015)

Cheers for posting that Fundy - shows a very highly likely future for golf


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## Tongo (Feb 4, 2015)

fundy said:



			An interesting article about cricket and free to air tv. Warning its a very long article but some reference to the open in there, especially when the MPs reviewed in 2010 the FTA events home test matches and the open golf were recommended to the list.

Also a snippet that Labour were talking about one of their manifesto points for the election next yr being about free to air sports again intimating adding the open to the list.

http://www.thefulltoss.com/england-cricket-blog/lost-key-crown-jewels/

Click to expand...


The upshot with cricket is that the domestic structure in this country is not financially sustainable so it needs bankrolling by cash from the international game. The spoutings about grass roots cricket suffering in the event of test cricket returning to peasant tv is covering up the reality that the county game would have to downsize so that it is more self-sustainable. I would guess that this is not a scenario that the ECB, whose mandarins normally come from the counties, do not want to countenance.


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2015)

Tongo said:



			The upshot with cricket is that the domestic structure in this country is not financially sustainable so it needs bankrolling by cash from the international game. The spoutings about grass roots cricket suffering in the event of test cricket returning to peasant tv is covering up the reality that the county game would have to downsize so that it is more self-sustainable. I would guess that this is not a scenario that the ECB, whose mandarins normally come from the counties, do not want to countenance.
		
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Thats pretty much the nail on the head Tongo, the counties elect the ECB and the ECB funding props up the counties, almost everything else is a smokescreen really


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2015)

Guys from GM - Mike , Jezz etc it would be great to hear your views and how the media has taken the news ?


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## CMAC (Feb 4, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Guys from GM - Mike , Jezz etc it would be great to hear your views and how the media has taken the news ?
		
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I would imagine it will be a main feature in the mag next month or even the website


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## PhilTheFragger (Feb 4, 2015)

Understand Mike was on Radio 5 this morning talking about it.


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## USER1999 (Feb 4, 2015)

Since the r and a is responsible for golf in a fair chunk of the globe, is the extra revenue being spent promoting golf in the UK, where this money was generated, or in developing countries like China?


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## Snelly (Feb 4, 2015)

murphthemog said:



			Since the r and a is responsible for golf in a fair chunk of the globe, is the extra revenue being spent promoting golf in the UK, where this money was generated, or in developing countries like China?
		
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The quotes i have seen relate to "global development of the game."  So probably not in the UK or at least not solely.


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## USER1999 (Feb 4, 2015)

So to the r and a, selling the coverage to gain more cash, even if it meant the demise of UK golf, would be within their remit, if they promoted more golf in another country?

Makes sense to me?


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## User62651 (Feb 4, 2015)

Has there been any mention from R&A if ticket prices will be going down to attend the Open given they've got a better TV deal to pay costs and prize money etc, I doubt it! I last went on Fri of Muirfield 2013 and it cost Â£85 plus Â£15 parking for one person, ridiculously expensive IMO and they got poor crowds as a result.


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## delc (Feb 4, 2015)

Bad news that even less live golf is being shown on terrestrial TV.  Golf participation in the UK has been declining for several years as more and more tournaments have been annexed by Sky Sports, which is only affordable by a rich minority of the population! Nick Faldo was turned onto golf by watching Jack Nicklaus's exploits in the Masters shown on BBC. How many potential champions are we going to lose in the future as a result of the R&A's tawdry deal with Sky?


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## Mark_Aged_42 (Feb 4, 2015)

The problem for me is the nature of highlights.
Usually they are 90% golfers holing out. Putting is not that interesting!

Showing a hole played in its entirety gives us 
 - the ebb and flow of the competitors positions on the course
 - shots from different sides of the fairway
 - shots going under/into/across the wind, which is definitely a factor in the Open.
 - shots from knee high rough (that's you Mr Woods!!)
 - bump and runs from some unlikely places (Mr Woods again!!)

 You see how much colour we will be missing by only seeing highlights?

 Just showing putting will put more kids off golf than Peter Alliss's commentry


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## bladeplayer (Feb 4, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In regards money from Sky deals going into grass roots of the sport 

How has that worked out in regards - cricket ? Football ? Rugby ? - participation numbers have all dropped over the years , crowds struggling at some sports

Has the money made football better in this country ? That's a debate 

The article mentioned an extra Â£35mil into golf ? does anyone really see that going anywhere near golf clubs ? 

It's great of the article to mention how little the price is - it's still a price. 

Viewing figures on sky will always be lower - when it comes to the Masters the BBC has higher viewing figures than Sky 

Participation numbers in all sports has reduced over the years - Is that to do with Sky - possibly not , more to do with the game console generation. When I was a child I watched a sport on telly and then me and my friends went out and played it - football , cricket , golf etc. 

Thankfully we still have the Olympics which inspires people but every 4 years isn't enough. 

I'm a massive sports fan but I do worry for the future in this country - this is another step backward imo
		
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:thup:LIKE  

As Said The decline is in no way down to sky but it prove the claims of money inputed at the top does not reach grassroots in any significant way


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## Tongo (Feb 4, 2015)

Mark_Aged_42 said:



			The problem for me is the nature of highlights.
Usually they are 90% golfers holing out. Putting is not that interesting!

Showing a hole played in its entirety gives us 
 - the ebb and flow of the competitors positions on the course
 - shots from different sides of the fairway
 - shots going under/into/across the wind, which is definitely a factor in the Open.
 - shots from knee high rough (that's you Mr Woods!!)
 - bump and runs from some unlikely places (Mr Woods again!!)

 You see how much colour we will be missing by only seeing highlights?

 Just showing putting will put more kids off golf than Peter Alliss's commentry
		
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I watched some of the Masters coverage on the red button a few years ago and they showed Ian Poulter playing the 14th. No flicking elsewhere, just concentrated on Poulter. It gave a great insight into how a player goes about selecting his shot, his dialogue with his caddie, working out where to land the ball etc. I watched for a good 10 mins and it was fascinating. A side to professional golf that isnt seen normally on tv.


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## Smiffy (Feb 4, 2015)

maxfli65 said:



			Has there been any mention from R&A if ticket prices will be going down to attend the Open given they've got a better TV deal to pay costs and prize money etc, I doubt it! I last went on Fri of Muirfield 2013 and it cost Â£85 plus Â£15 parking for one person, ridiculously expensive IMO and they got poor crowds as a result.
		
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You could get aÂ£6.99 day pass on NowTV and watch it on sky ðŸ˜‰


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2015)

delc said:



			Bad news that even less live golf is being shown on terrestrial TV.  Golf participation in the UK has been declining for several years as more and more tournaments have been annexed by Sky Sports, which is only affordable by a rich minority of the population! Nick Faldo was turned onto golf by watching Jack Nicklaus's exploits in the Masters shown on BBC. How many potential champions are we going to lose in the future as a result of the R&A's tawdry deal with Sky?  

Click to expand...

None


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## Smiffy (Feb 4, 2015)

Fish said:



			None
		
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Like I said. Nick Faldo couldn't go and play on his X-box or PS3. 
And he hadn't discovered women then either


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2015)

If you enjoy watching golf Sky Sports is decent value,lots to watch plus you get football & all the other sports. 
I can't see the problem.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 4, 2015)

Pin-seeker said:



			If you enjoy watching golf Sky Sports is decent value,lots to watch plus you get football & all the other sports. 
I can't see the problem.
		
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I dont watch football or cricket.   Not going to buy it just for golf.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			I dont watch football or cricket.   Not going to buy it just for golf.
		
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Looks like you're not going to be watching golf then.


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			Like I said. Nick Faldo couldn't go and play on his X-box or PS3. 
And he hadn't discovered women then either


Click to expand...

He also obviously had parents who invested in his new found hobby for him, and as he became quickly successful, that investment would have become quite substantial, now if people who watch the golf on the BBC can't afford Sky, how are they going to meet the financial demands of kitting out a youngster with all the gear he needs, lessons, club membership, running him around etc :mmm:

The golf will be on in pubs, social clubs, golf clubs and more, nobody has to miss it if they don't really want to.

I'm on the opposite to many here I think, I say the change will be good, the figures were falling with the Beeb, they weren't improving their coverage, the net result of that then if its not attractive to the viewer could mean even less figures watching, so, I'm all for change, its a dirty word for some but sometimes you just have to accept it and believe in the long term prospects and that it will be for the better, which I think it will be, the flip side was, stick with the BBC and watch it become an obscure minority sport!

Sky will make it work, its in their interest to do so.


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## Jungle (Feb 4, 2015)

That's more like it GM.

A little bit of elitism sneaking through the cracks here. 

Whilst it is more palatable to wrap this up under the guise of participation it seems this just comes down to folk not willing to hand over money to a company, or in particular a media mogul who of course is now only a partial part of said company.

There has been countless topics discussed on this forum regarding golf moving with the times but here we are horrified that a great tradition has been broken. 

The reality is times have moved on, kids no longer spend whole days watching the tv. Todays audience and kids in particular consume content in a whole new way. They watch goal highlights via twitter as they happen, watch tv on the go with handheld devices, watch content through YouTube, hell Mark Crossfield has just as much potential to get kids into golf than Rory Mcilroy has. The R&A have chosen someone that can open up new avenues and has the vision to keep up with that changing landscape.

So of course there is the cost of Pay TV. As others have pointed out you can in effect subscribe to Sports content without a contract and for less than the cost of a box of warbirds. So certainly not a product thats exclusive to the super rich, but none the less a choice of course. 

It's been interesting to see the pages of passionate debate but as for this move having a detrimental impact on golfs already declining participation I think it stands way down the list behind some more serious questions.


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## Odvan (Feb 4, 2015)

Jungle said:



			That's more like it GM.

A little bit of elitism sneaking through the cracks here. 

Whilst it is more palatable to wrap this up under the guise of participation it seems this just comes down to folk not willing to hand over money to a company, or in particular a media mogul who of course is now only a partial part of said company.

There has been countless topics discussed on this forum regarding golf moving with the times but here we are horrified that a great tradition has been broken. 

The reality is times have moved on, kids no longer spend whole days watching the tv. Todays audience and kids in particular consume content in a whole new way. They watch goal highlights via twitter as they happen, watch tv on the go with handheld devices, watch content through YouTube, hell Mark Crossfield has just as much potential to get kids into golf than Rory Mcilroy has. The R&A have chosen someone that can open up new avenues and has the vision to keep up with that changing landscape.

So of course there is the cost of Pay TV. As others have pointed out you can in effect subscribe to Sports content without a contract and for less than the cost of a box of warbirds. So certainly not a product thats exclusive to the super rich, but none the less a choice of course. 

It's been interesting to see the pages of passionate debate but as for this move having a detrimental impact on golfs already declining participation I think it stands way down the list behind some more serious questions.
		
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Great post.


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## Fish (Feb 5, 2015)

Jungle said:



			That's more like it GM.

A little bit of elitism sneaking through the cracks here. 

Whilst it is more palatable to wrap this up under the guise of participation it seems this just comes down to folk not willing to hand over money to a company, or in particular a media mogul who of course is now only a partial part of said company.

There has been countless topics discussed on this forum regarding golf moving with the times but here we are horrified that a great tradition has been broken. 

The reality is times have moved on, kids no longer spend whole days watching the tv. Todays audience and kids in particular consume content in a whole new way. They watch goal highlights via twitter as they happen, watch tv on the go with handheld devices, watch content through YouTube, hell Mark Crossfield has just as much potential to get kids into golf than Rory Mcilroy has. The R&A have chosen someone that can open up new avenues and has the vision to keep up with that changing landscape.

So of course there is the cost of Pay TV. As others have pointed out you can in effect subscribe to Sports content without a contract and for less than the cost of a box of warbirds. So certainly not a product thats exclusive to the super rich, but none the less a choice of course. 

It's been interesting to see the pages of passionate debate but as for this move having a detrimental impact on golfs already declining participation I think it stands way down the list behind some more serious questions.
		
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:thup:


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## Tongo (Feb 5, 2015)

Pin-seeker said:



			If you enjoy watching golf Sky Sports is decent value,lots to watch plus you get football & all the other sports. 
*I can't see the problem*.
		
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Having to pay to watch the Open live maybe?


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## Tongo (Feb 5, 2015)

Fish said:



			He also obviously had parents who invested in his new found hobby for him, and as he became quickly successful, that investment would have become quite substantial, now if people who watch the golf on the BBC can't afford Sky, how are they going to meet the financial demands of kitting out a youngster with all the gear he needs, lessons, club membership, running him around etc :mmm:

*The golf will be on in pubs, social clubs, golf clubs and more, nobody has to miss it if they don't really want to*.

I'm on the opposite to many here I think, I say the change will be good, the figures were falling with the Beeb, they weren't improving their coverage, the net result of that then if its not attractive to the viewer could mean even less figures watching, so, I'm all for change, its a dirty word for some but sometimes you just have to accept it and believe in the long term prospects and that it will be for the better, which I think it will be, the flip side was, stick with the BBC and watch it become an obscure minority sport!

Sky will make it work, its in their interest to do so.
		
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Yeah, cos there's nothing like getting to Saturday / Sunday afternoon of Open week, sitting down to watch the golf in the comfort of your own home and then realising you have to bimble down to the nearest boozer instead only to discover that rather than televise the golf they are showing some pointless, money making match between Man Utd and Real Madrid from some far flung corner of the globe. 

And i'm sure we could then bimble down to the nearest golf club afterward but it isnt quite the same as sitting at home is it?


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## Fish (Feb 5, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Yeah, cos there's nothing like getting to Saturday / Sunday afternoon of Open week, sitting down to watch the golf in the comfort of your own home and then realising you have to bimble down to the nearest boozer instead only to discover that rather than televise the golf they are showing some pointless, money making match between Man Utd and Real Madrid from some far flung corner of the globe. 

And i'm sure we could then bimble down to the nearest golf club afterward but it isnt quite the same as sitting at home is it?
		
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Well like everything you can't please everyone and as such whilst there may be some casualties, something has to change in an attempt to get the game of golf out there more because by leaving it where it is it will surely die of a slow death with the BBC because they wouldn't improve their coverage or invest in it any more than they were, so for me, the change is a positive one and I'm confident that after a few years of watching it more on Sky, many will wonder what all the fuss was about.


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## Imurg (Feb 5, 2015)

Fish said:



			Well like everything you can't please everyone and as such whilst there may be some casualties, something has to change in an attempt to get the game of golf out there more because by leaving it where it is it will surely die of a slow death with the BBC because they wouldn't improve their coverage or invest in it any more than they were, so for me, the change is a positive one and I'm confident that after a few years of watching it more on Sky, many will wonder what all the fuss was about.
		
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And how does restricting the number of viewers "get golf out there more"..?


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## Tongo (Feb 5, 2015)

Fish said:



			Well like everything you can't please everyone and as such whilst there may be some casualties, something has to change in an attempt to get the game of golf out there more because by leaving it where it is it will surely die of a slow death with the BBC because they wouldn't improve their coverage or invest in it any more than they were, so for me, the change is a positive one and I'm confident that after a few years of watching it more on Sky, many will wonder what all the fuss was about.
		
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Golf's falling participation levels go way beyond the beeb and their lack of quality in coverage, as has been discussed in other threads. 

And the improved Sky coverage hasnt exactly worked for participation in cricket either.


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## USER1999 (Feb 5, 2015)

Imurg said:



			And how does restricting the number of viewers "get golf out there more"..?
		
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But that's my point, it might in other countries, just not ours!


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## Imurg (Feb 5, 2015)

murphthemog said:



			But that's my point, it might in other countries, just not ours!
		
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In which case, a few million spread over the globe means about 20p per National Union.....
On R5 yesterday they had a slot about this, MikeH was on.
The Guy from England Golf was almost gloating that they had spent a million or so on encouraging new players to the game....how far does a million go?
OK its better than nowt but the numbers need to be far higher.

For me, the only reason Sky are in this is to make more profit. Monopolise Golf coverage so more people will have to subscribe to Sky in order to watch. I doubt, in reality, that Sky really care much about where their extra millions go. They're only interested in the bottom line of their balance sheet.


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## Fish (Feb 5, 2015)

Imurg said:



			And how does restricting the number of viewers "get golf out there more"..?
		
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Because as has been said previously, kids don't sit watching terrestrial TV, there watching and picking up on things on various different platforms, are they being measured or being factored into any figures released?  Not everything in marketing is about and based on machine gun sales, I think that even if it did become a smaller audience on Sky, there is nothing to say that the conversation rate to people taking the sport up could be higher, if the quality of coverage and overall quality in how its presented is much better than what the BBC have done for years, then that in itself could appeal to more people, so the figures alone for me being an argument are a red herring, quality not quantity can be far more successful and bring in a better return.

  The bottom line is, the BBC didn't take on board what the R&A wanted and wouldn't invest any more into it and as such are happy to let the golf go, its time for change, that big horrible dirty word for some, so we have to give it a chance.


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## Tongo (Feb 5, 2015)

Fish said:



			Well like everything you can't please everyone and as such whilst there may be some casualties, something has to change in an attempt to get the game of golf out there more because by leaving it where it is it will surely die of a slow death with the BBC because they wouldn't improve their coverage or invest in it any more than they were, so for me, the change is a positive one and I'm confident that after a few years of watching it more on Sky, many will wonder what all the fuss was about.
		
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Just out of interest, what bells and whistles can Sky put on that will make people watch and think: "yeah, i'm gonna take up this game?" Its still a 4 day tournament that isnt particularly fast moving, regardless of what trinkets are attached to it. Chucking in a few ball tracker graphics is unlikely to turn people from thinking the game is boring into thinking its fantastic. The perception of the game in this country is too ingrained in peoples minds.


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## Fish (Feb 5, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Just out of interest, what bells and whistles can Sky put on that will make people watch and think: "yeah, i'm gonna take up this game?" Its still a 4 day tournament that isnt particularly fast moving, regardless of what trinkets are attached to it. Chucking in a few ball tracker graphics is unlikely to turn people from thinking the game is boring into thinking its fantastic. The perception of the game in this country is too ingrained in peoples minds.
		
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I think overall it will have a fresher feel to it and will be more attractive to the younger viewer, hopefully.  I think they will have an excellent build up leading to it, they will look back over the past in detail, decent interviews and even have some fun coverage, all this is beyond the BBC's mentality IMO and as such is why I believe the BBC has a stuffiness stigma still attached to it in some quarters, just like we see in some golf clubs but times are changing for the better in some (clubs) and so our coverage with a fresher cleaner look that makes it attractive for younger people to look into giving it a go has to be a good thing rather than it being covered and marketed by the old brigade with antiquated views and opinions, which as you say, is ingrained in our minds, so change has to happen and with the TV being a powerful tool, I think we have to give this a real chance and stop hanging on to the umbilical cord.


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## Tongo (Feb 5, 2015)

Fish said:



			I think overall it will have a fresher feel to it and will be more attractive to the younger viewer, hopefully.  I think they will have an excellent build up leading to it, they will look back over the past in detail, decent interviews and even have some fun coverage, all this is beyond the BBC's mentality IMO and as such is why I believe the BBC has a stuffiness stigma still attached to it in some quarters, just like we see in some golf clubs but times are changing for the better in some (clubs) and so our coverage with a fresher cleaner look that makes it attractive for younger people to look into giving it a go has to be a good thing rather than it being covered and marketed by the old brigade with antiquated views and opinions, which as you say, is ingrained in our minds, so change has to happen and with the TV being a powerful tool, I think we have to give this a real chance and stop hanging on to the umbilical cord.
		
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None of which addresses two of the main reasons why golf participation is falling: itâ€™s anexpensive game to play and it takes a long time to play, as per Rory Macâ€™s comments a few weeks ago. Skyâ€™s coverage isnâ€™t going to change either of thoseso they may improve coverage in some areas but the game as a whole will not beimproved just because Sky have taken over. (Other than possibly improving theprize money on offer)


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 5, 2015)

Fish said:



			I think overall it will have a fresher feel to it and will be more attractive to the younger viewer, hopefully.  I think they will have an excellent build up leading to it, they will look back over the past in detail, decent interviews and even have some fun coverage, all this is beyond the BBC's mentality IMO and as such is why I believe the BBC has a stuffiness stigma still attached to it in some quarters, just like we see in some golf clubs but times are changing for the better in some (clubs) and so our coverage with a fresher cleaner look that makes it attractive for younger people to look into giving it a go has to be a good thing rather than it being covered and marketed by the old brigade with antiquated views and opinions, which as you say, is ingrained in our minds, so change has to happen and with the TV being a powerful tool, I think we have to give this a real chance and stop hanging on to the umbilical cord.
		
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I have no doubt there will be more bells, whistles and endless buildup like they do for the Ryder Cup.  But at the end of the day the golf itself is still 4 day stroke play which is ever so slightly boring as a spectator sport to the non golf nut.  I am more on the side of it being on the BBC with their limitations but with a wider reach than on Sky with better production values but a limited and probably more committed audience.

But having said that if Sky manage to persuade the R&A to dump the 'Last of the Summer Wine death by rambling speech' presentation ceremony and replace it with something not out of the 1920s I will take it all back and say Sky are fantastic


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## colint (Feb 5, 2015)

Compare what Sky has done for cycling, one of the other sports it's heavily invested in, with what the BBC does for golf.

Sky organise "Sky Rides" all over the UK. These are free to enter, closed roads cycling events designed to encourage people to get into cycling. There are freebies / giveaways, appearances from top riders, equipment checks, advice etc. It's obviously self promotion and designed to get people following a sport they've invested in, but it's had a huge impact on the number of people taking up the sport. Over 250,000 people took part in one of these events in 2012, even if 10% of these people were new to the sport that's a huge number being introduced to cycling.

Will we see Sky Golf events ? I think we might. Take over a venue, encourage families to attend, some local pro's in attendance to give advice etc. When Sky go for something they go all out. 

What have / do the BBC do for golf ? They show one event with the same presenters, same format, same misty eyed 5 minute collage on the final day. Outside of that what do they do ? I've seen lots of BBC events around the country for other things, never anything for golf.

I'm not overly happy about having to pay to watch golf. I've just cancelled my Sky Sports subscription because golf is the only sport I watch (other than rugby on BT) and I'm already missing it and thinking of rejoining. The sport needs something to get people involved, I'd rather Sky put their weight behind it than rely on something which has been failing for years to suddenly come good


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## Tongo (Feb 5, 2015)

colint said:



			Compare what Sky has done for cycling, one of the other sports it's heavily invested in, with what the BBC does for golf.

Sky organise "Sky Rides" all over the UK. These are free to enter, closed roads cycling events designed to encourage people to get into cycling. There are freebies / giveaways, appearances from top riders, equipment checks, advice etc. It's obviously self promotion and designed to get people following a sport they've invested in, but it's had a huge impact on the number of people taking up the sport. Over 250,000 people took part in one of these events in 2012, even if 10% of these people were new to the sport that's a huge number being introduced to cycling.

Will we see Sky Golf events ? I think we might. Take over a venue, encourage families to attend, some local pro's in attendance to give advice etc. When Sky go for something they go all out. 

What have / do the BBC do for golf ? They show one event with the same presenters, same format, same misty eyed 5 minute collage on the final day. Outside of that what do they do ? I've seen lots of BBC events around the country for other things, never anything for golf.

I'm not overly happy about having to pay to watch golf. I've just cancelled my Sky Sports subscription because golf is the only sport I watch (other than rugby on BT) and I'm already missing it and thinking of rejoining. The sport needs something to get people involved, I'd rather Sky put their weight behind it than rely on something which has been failing for years to suddenly come good
		
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Sky already cover theEuropean Tour and 3 of the majors so its not like this is a new venture as itwas with Cycling. What has stopped them doing similar things to what they havedone with cycling? And how much of Skyâ€™s Cycling extras are because theysponsor a pro tour team? I would suggest that there isnâ€™t the same vestedinterest with the golf. 

As for the beeb, they arenâ€™ta sports channel, as has been pointed out, and are publicly funded so they donâ€™thave the flexibility that Sky has when it comes to all the add onâ€™s.


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## colint (Feb 5, 2015)

Tongo said:



Sky already cover theEuropean Tour and 3 of the majors so its not like this is a new venture as itwas with Cycling. What has stopped them doing similar things to what they havedone with cycling? And how much of Skyâ€™s Cycling extras are because theysponsor a pro tour team? I would suggest that there isnâ€™t the same vestedinterest with the golf. 

As for the beeb, they arenâ€™ta sports channel, as has been pointed out, and are publicly funded so they donâ€™thave the flexibility that Sky has when it comes to all the add onâ€™s. 

Click to expand...


Perhaps because they'll be covering the major UK event they'll step things up a bit, I agree them sponsoring the pro team has a lot to do with the cycling events. There's a chance they'll do something though, there's no chance the BBC will ever do anything other than the minimum because they've got other priorities, mainly baking and pro-am dancing. 

Things might not change, but I don't agree that the BBC losing the Open is somehow the death knell for progress with golf participation.


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## Tongo (Feb 5, 2015)

colint said:



			Perhaps because they'll be covering the major UK event they'll step things up a bit, I agree them sponsoring the pro team has a lot to do with the cycling events. There's a chance they'll do something though, there's no chance the BBC will ever do anything other than the minimum because they've got other priorities, mainly baking and pro-am dancing. 

Things might not change, but I don't agree that the BBC losing the Open is somehow the death knell for progress with golf participation.
		
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Sky dont do the same for every sport they cover though. Just cycling, which is hip and trendy at the moment cos Britain is successful and has people like Mark Cavendish and Bradley Wiggins who can be used as poster boys.


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## ger147 (Feb 5, 2015)

I can't believe Nostradamus didn't mention this, careless...


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## Dan2501 (Feb 5, 2015)

[video=youtube;bdn61SDw5hI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdn61SDw5hI[/video]

Peter Finch gives his thoughts. Not a happy Finchy.


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## colint (Feb 5, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Sky dont do the same for every sport they cover though. Just cycling, which is hip and trendy at the moment cos Britain is successful and has people like Mark Cavendish and Bradley Wiggins who can be used as poster boys.
		
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We're not exactly short of home grown golfing stars either ?


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## Tongo (Feb 5, 2015)

colint said:



			We're not exactly short of home grown golfing stars either ?
		
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Not quite in the same league as Bradley Wiggins or Chris Hoy though are they? In terms of media profile.


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## USER1999 (Feb 5, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Not quite in the same league as Bradley Wiggins or Chris Hoy though are they? In terms of media profile.
		
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You mean sir Bradley Wiggins, and sir Chris Hoy?


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## ger147 (Feb 5, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Not quite in the same league as Bradley Wiggins or Chris Hoy though are they? In terms of media profile.
		
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I reckon Rory would cause more of a stir that Bradley or Chris pretty much everywhere in the world IMHO.


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## Tongo (Feb 5, 2015)

murphthemog said:



			You mean sir Bradley Wiggins, and sir Chris Hoy?
		
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Quite. And the whole Lewis Hamilton beating Rory at the SPOTY demonstrates that success from a UK player is no guarantee of capturing the public's imagination.


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## Tongo (Feb 5, 2015)

ger147 said:



			I reckon Rory would cause more of a stir that Bradley or Chris pretty much everywhere in the world IMHO.
		
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Yeah, but we're talking about here in the UK.


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## ger147 (Feb 5, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Yeah, but we're talking about here in the UK.
		
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IMO the same applies in the UK.


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## Tongo (Feb 5, 2015)

Have you seen the participation stats for Cycling and Golf? Guess which one is higher and increasing.


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## Fish (Feb 5, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			[video=youtube;bdn61SDw5hI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdn61SDw5hI[/video]

Peter Finch gives his thoughts. Not a happy Finchy.
		
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How old is Peter Finch?


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## Tongo (Feb 5, 2015)

Fish said:



			How old is Peter Finch?
		
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Who is Peter Finch?!


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## colint (Feb 5, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Have you seen the participation stats for Cycling and Golf? Guess which one is higher and increasing.
		
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Maybe that's because of Sky


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 5, 2015)

I'd say think as with a lot of initiatives taken on their own, just keeping The Open on the BBC and doing nothing else will not make a huge amount of difference to participation numbers. So The Open going over to Sky wont change a lot of the issues the game has, and the R&A can reassure themselves that this is the right thing to do as they get more money.

I think the problem is that golf is at a stage in the UK at least, where there needs to be several coordinated new approaches over a wide range of issues to make a change. One thing taken on its own (relaxing dress codes, The Open staying on the BBC, pros taking less time to complete a round etc etc) will make a very limited difference.  To me the great failing of the custodians of the game is they have let it get into this state where I would argue it is getting to the stage where a relatively large scale revolution/changes are needed to revamp the rapidly falling popularity and participation numbers (and I use the word 'relatively' on purpose as someone having their shirt untucked is the end of civilization to some people.  But as I said, it is all relative).  Where as small scale evolutions over a longer time period would have probably done the trick if they were started earlier enough and also done in a coordinated fashion.  And the longer they leave it the worse it will get.

If the game is attractive to people then of course it needs to be on a channel where as many people as possibly can get access to see it.  Where as if the product is not that attractive to start with to a majority of people, where it is shown makes little difference.


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## MendieGK (Feb 5, 2015)

I have Sky Sports, and it means i no longer have to listen to Peter Allis drone on about all the Heathland courses he loves (Hindhead, Liphook, Ferndown) and young dorris from 1950 who used to walk her black lab across the 6th faireway every tuesday morning at 6am, come rain or shine

Sky will also most likely do what they did with the Ryder Cup and Superbowl and dedicate a whole channel to the event in the run up to it. Gives us the opportunity to watch classic highlights etc. 

Good move in my view.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 5, 2015)

People go on about cycling but I don't see it as a particularly fair comparison. Once you have your bike and your lycra you can go out and ride. No membership fees, no green fees etc. Basically, once set up it is cheap to take part in. Very keen cyclists will no doubt join clubs but even then costs can not be high. The courses for cyclists, ie the roads, are paid for by the tax payer, they do not need to contribute separately to them when cycling. No wonder cycling is increasing in popularity. Virtually no barriers to entry, cheap to get involved. I do appreciate that "good" bikes can cost thousands but for a beginner that is not necessary.

Good for cycling that it is popular but comparing the two sports popularity using tv coverage as a weapon doesn't stack up. There is more to it than that.


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## patricks148 (Feb 5, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			People go on about cycling but I don't see it as a particularly fair comparison. Once you have your bike and your lycra you can go out and ride. No membership fees, no green fees etc. Basically, once set up it is cheap to take part in. Very keen cyclists will no doubt join clubs but even then costs can not be high. The courses for cyclists, ie the roads, are paid for by the tax payer, they do not need to contribute separately to them when cycling. No wonder cycling is increasing in popularity. Virtually no barriers to entry, cheap to get involved. I do appreciate that "good" bikes can cost thousands but for a beginner that is not necessary.

Good for cycling that it is popular but comparing the two sports popularity using tv coverage as a weapon doesn't stack up. There is more to it than that.
		
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you are right outside of the bike and shoes competitive racing isn't that expensive or didn't used to be. A 10 mile TT was only a few quid to enter and road races where not much more once you have a licence. 

thing with cycling is participation has increased since it disappeared of mainstream TV, when i raced the Tour de France was on at peak time every night during the event on C4. if you really wanted to watch all the classics and other tours you had to have Euro sport, which i think came free with Sky.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 5, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			People go on about cycling but I don't see it as a particularly fair comparison. Once you have your bike and your lycra you can go out and ride. No membership fees, no green fees etc. Basically, once set up it is cheap to take part in. Very keen cyclists will no doubt join clubs but even then costs can not be high. The courses for cyclists, ie the roads, are paid for by the tax payer, they do not need to contribute separately to them when cycling. No wonder cycling is increasing in popularity. Virtually no barriers to entry, cheap to get involved. I do appreciate that "good" bikes can cost thousands but for a beginner that is not necessary.

Good for cycling that it is popular but comparing the two sports popularity using tv coverage as a weapon doesn't stack up. There is more to it than that.
		
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Good point.  I think the key point there is barriers to entry.  As you say cycling has very few if any.  Golf has plenty, some perceived, some real.  And that is the crux of the issue to me.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2015)

Cycling is mainly broadcasted on free to air telly

The track cycling is covered by BBC along with the World Champs

TDF is done by ITV

It has had maximum exposure to everyone


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 5, 2015)

patricks148 said:



			you are right outside of the bike and shoes competitive racing isn't that expensive or didn't used to be. A 10 mile TT was only a few quid to enter and road races where not much more once you have a licence. 

thing with cycling is participation has increased since it disappeared of mainstream TV, when i raced the Tour de France was on at peak time every night during the event on C4. if you really wanted to watch all the classics and other tours you had to have Euro sport, which i think came free with Sky.
		
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Good point, but I would also argue that a lot of the popularity of cycling has been from the success on the track and not just the TDF or other classics. And that has mostly been through BBC at the Olympics and since then increased coverage of other championships.


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## colint (Feb 5, 2015)

The start up costs are probably quite similar, an entry level bike will be at least Â£250 but most upgrade that and typically spend at least Â£1000. There's then on-going consumables like tyres, inner tubes etc. Cheap set of clubs, balls, bag, clothes ? It's pretty close I'd say.

True nobody has to pay to use the roads as they're funded from general taxation, but nobody has to join a golf club, and my local municipal which is excellent costs only Â£130 a year.

We've had lots of successful golfers, and lots of successful cyclists over the past 10 years, but one sport is leaving the other behind. I think a lot of it is just to do with people becoming more health conscious, most people haven't got the time or money to dedicate to golf and something which will keep them fitter


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 5, 2015)

Golf has no barriers to anyone to try it. Most people start off with pitch and putt or a tryout at a driving range, and both will supply the neccessary clubs and balls.
Cycling isn't a cheap sport once you're into it. Equipment wears out, especially if not maintained for which the stuff needed to do the maintenance isn't overly cheap. Then there's the clothing etc.
The only real advantage for pushing cycling over golf is the health and fitness levels it will bring to the participants.
At the end of the day, if the masses cannot see something they will not try or have any interest.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 5, 2015)

Bunkermagnet said:



*Golf has no barriers to anyone to try it*. Most people start off with pitch and putt or a tryout at a driving range, and both will supply the neccessary clubs and balls.
Cycling isn't a cheap sport once you're into it. Equipment wears out, especially if not maintained for which the stuff needed to do the maintenance isn't overly cheap. Then there's the clothing etc.
The only real advantage for pushing cycling over golf is the health and fitness levels it will bring to the participants.
At the end of the day, if the masses cannot see something they will not try or have any interest.
		
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I'd argue it has a bloody big one though for people to continue in that it is so hard to master. Where as most kids are taught to ride a bike at school now so they can get on and off they go.  Boom, instant gratification and enjoyment.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 5, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Cycling is mainly broadcasted on free to air telly

The track cycling is covered by BBC along with the World Champs

TDF is done by ITV

It has had maximum exposure to everyone
		
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For many years the TdF can be seen on Eurosport, and a damned fine job they had made of it. ITV have cottoned on to it now with reasonable coverage, but for a long time only saw fit to show a 30 mins highlight of the days riding.


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## colint (Feb 5, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			I'd argue it has a bloody big one in that it is so hard to master. Where as most kids are taught to ride a bike at school now so they can get on and off they go.  Boom, instant gratification and enjoyment.
		
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Yep I'd agree with that. You could go for your first ride round the block and keep back feeling great, but come back from your first range session hating it. Golf's an incredibly difficult game, even the pro's can't master it


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 5, 2015)

Yes it's easy to ride a straight line or on a nice pavement or something. Riding offroad, on a track or in a bunch is a lot harder and more technical.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2015)

Bunkermagnet said:



			For many years the TdF can be seen on Eurosport, and a damned fine job they had made of it. ITV have cottoned on to it now with reasonable coverage, but for a long time only saw fit to show a 30 mins highlight of the days riding.
		
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It was on CH4 for years as well 

But it's the track cycling that I believe has grabbed everyone's interest - and that is very visible all over telly ( BBC ) 

The SPOTY is another example - most of McIlroys exploits aren't seen by BBC viewers where as Hamiltons was


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 5, 2015)

Bunkermagnet said:



			For many years the TdF can be seen on Eurosport, and a damned fine job they had made of it. ITV have cottoned on to it now with reasonable coverage, but for a long time only saw fit to show a 30 mins highlight of the days riding.
		
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The live TDF feed that ITV and in the olden days Channel 4 did are all from an American broadcaster.  That is who Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwin are primarily broadcasting to. ITV or in the day Channel 4 just take that feed and then add in their local presenters.

And calling ITVs coverage just reasonable??? The stages have always been on live on ITV4 and then they show an hours highlights program in the evening, not 30 mins.  I am the first to say that ITV generally make a pigs ear of most sports, but their TDF team in my opinion as a very long watcher of the event is marvelous.  Ned Boulding and Chris Boardman are superb, and why Gary Imlach is not presenting lots of other things is beyond me, he is a genius.  IMHO of course.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 5, 2015)

I think you might find that Eurosport have covered it in greater length and detail, with the venerable David Duffield commentating, along with Stephen Roche for some asides.


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## Jimaroid (Feb 5, 2015)

Most children are introduced to cycling at a young age by their schools and families, a bicycle makes a great present. The cost of bicycles has gone down dramatically in the last 20 years so more children have been exposed to cycling as a pastime. Those seeds grew into the cycling boom were are seeing now.

The same hasn't happened with golf.

It's nothing to do with TV.

Golf has a bad image that children aren't interested in, they see it as a sport for old men stuck in their ways, arguing about days gone by and how things should never change. Looking at this thread, I'd say the children make a good point.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 5, 2015)

Jimaroid said:



			Most children are introduced to cycling at a young age by their schools and families, a bicycle makes a great present. The cost of bicycles has gone down dramatically in the last 20 years so more children have been exposed to cycling as a pastime. Those seeds grew into the cycling boom were are seeing now.

The same hasn't happened with golf.

It's nothing to do with TV.

Golf has a bad image that children aren't interested in, they see it as a sport for old men stuck in their ways, arguing about days gone by and how things should never change. Looking at this thread, I'd say the children make a good point.
		
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I would disagree on the kids riding more. I hardly ever see children out riding theirs bikes these days, unless they have parents who also ride and then they all go out together.


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## garyinderry (Feb 5, 2015)

If I see cycling on the tv I can't switch over quick enough.  I am sure plenty of kids do the same with golf.


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## patricks148 (Feb 5, 2015)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I think you might find that Eurosport have covered it in greater length and detail, with the venerable David Duffield commentating, along with Stephen Roche for some asides.
		
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Yes, there wasn't decent track in the UK until they built the one in Manchester in the mid/late 90's all track evens were shown on Euro sport before that. 

The BBC can't take any credit for the upturn in interest its prob in spite of them.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 5, 2015)

Herne Hill is a fine example of cycling tracks long before they built the Manchester one for the Commonwealth games.

As exciting as it is to watch, track cycling is a lot more technical than just riding along the street. 
In any case, it doesn't matter what we feel on this, the R&A have made their choice and thats it, only time will tell.


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## Steve1821 (Feb 5, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sad day 

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I watched the BBC highlights of Ryder cup this year, what a waste! I t was just a run through of mostly made shots not atmosphere at all. If they call that "coverage" the I guess that's effectively the end of watching a *game* of golf on free to view widespread TV. For the money - the difference in win money isn't going to distract most golfers from turning up at some of the best courses in the world at the home of golf


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## patricks148 (Feb 5, 2015)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Herne Hill is a fine example of cycling tracks long before they built the Manchester one for the Commonwealth games.

As exciting as it is to watch, track cycling is a lot more technical than just riding along the street. 
In any case, it doesn't matter what we feel on this, the R&A have made their choice and thats it, only time will tell.
		
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I didn't think Herne Hill was that technical, not compared with Leicester, Meadow bank and Calshot anyway. are those still in operation?

The former were all in a very poor state last time i rode them in the mid 90's


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2015)

Steve1821 said:



			I watched the BBC highlights of Ryder cup this year, what a waste! I t was just a run through of mostly made shots not atmosphere at all. If they call that "coverage" the I guess that's effectively the end of watching a *game* of golf on free to view widespread TV. For the money - the difference in win money isn't going to distract most golfers from turning up at some of the best courses in the world at the home of golf
		
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Umm when doing highlights isn't it going to be just the shots anyway ? What else are they supposed to show ? 

Not sure what your point is about the prize money ?


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## Tongo (Feb 5, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			People go on about cycling but I don't see it as a particularly fair comparison. Once you have your bike and your lycra you can go out and ride. No membership fees, no green fees etc. Basically, once set up it is cheap to take part in. Very keen cyclists will no doubt join clubs but even then costs can not be high. The courses for cyclists, ie the roads, are paid for by the tax payer, they do not need to contribute separately to them when cycling. No wonder cycling is increasing in popularity. Virtually no barriers to entry, cheap to get involved. I do appreciate that "good" bikes can cost thousands but for a beginner that is not necessary.

Good for cycling that it is popular but comparing the two sports popularity using tv coverage as a weapon doesn't stack up. There is more to it than that.
		
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The cycling reference was in relation to a theory that Sky might start some initiatives with Golf like they have with Cycling rather than a direct comparison of tv coverage. (Do Sky cover any Cycling?)


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## Airsporter1st (Feb 5, 2015)

My concern, if it has not been voiced already, is that Sky might make the top golf events Pay per View, just as they did with boxing.


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## Tongo (Feb 5, 2015)

patricks148 said:



			you are right outside of the bike and shoes competitive racing isn't that expensive or didn't used to be. A 10 mile TT was only a few quid to enter and road races where not much more once you have a licence. 

*thing with cycling is participation has increased since it disappeared of mainstream TV, when i raced the Tour de France was on at peak time every night during the event on C4. if you really wanted to watch all the classics and other tours you had to have Euro sport, which i think came free with Sky*.
		
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And having British success at the Olympics and the TDF has probably helped as well.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2015)

Tongo said:



			The cycling reference was in relation to a theory that Sky might start some initiatives with Golf like they have with Cycling rather than a direct comparison of tv coverage. (Do Sky cover any Cycling?)
		
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Think Sky have the tour of Aus and a few other tours


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## patricks148 (Feb 5, 2015)

Tongo said:



			The cycling reference was in relation to a theory that Sky might start some initiatives with Golf like they have with Cycling rather than a direct comparison of tv coverage. (Do Sky cover any Cycling?)
		
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not directly they do have Euro Sport and that was and still is the main channel for most pro races and track champs in world cycling


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## Tongo (Feb 5, 2015)

Bunkermagnet said:



			For many years the TdF can be seen on Eurosport, and a damned fine job they had made of it. ITV have cottoned on to it now with reasonable coverage, but for a long time only saw fit to show a 30 mins highlight of the days riding.
		
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The advent of digital TV / Freeview has given ITV a medium on which to televise each stage each day though, an opportunity which has only been in existence in recent years.


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## Tongo (Feb 5, 2015)

Jimaroid said:



			Most children are introduced to cycling at a young age by their schools and families, a bicycle makes a great present. The cost of bicycles has gone down dramatically in the last 20 years so more children have been exposed to cycling as a pastime. Those seeds grew into the cycling boom were are seeing now.

The same hasn't happened with golf.

*It's nothing to do with TV.*

Golf has a bad image that children aren't interested in, they see it as a sport for old men stuck in their ways, arguing about days gone by and how things should never change. Looking at this thread, I'd say the children make a good point.
		
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Funny how the boom has been since Britain has enjoyed success at the Olympics and the TDF. Or is that just coincidence? 
Cos i wasnt aware that a child would look at a bike and think: "i'll get into cycling cos bikes are cheaper now than 20 years ago." Didnt know we had such economically minded children in this country.


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## patricks148 (Feb 5, 2015)

Tongo said:



			And having British success at the Olympics and the TDF has probably helped as well.
		
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Main thing that has helped British Cycling has been increased funding and Manchester Velodrome, before that we were Europe's poor relation and i can remembera time when the BCF didn't even contest some evens on the track that we later have won medals in.


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## Tongo (Feb 5, 2015)

patricks148 said:



			Main thing that has helped British Cycling has been increased funding and Manchester Velodrome, before that we were Europe's poor relation and i can remembera time when the BCF didn't even contest some evens on the track that we later have won medals in.
		
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Yes, which has led to track / road success, increased exposure and increased participation.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2015)

Think Eurosport have most of the evebts 

BBC have full coverage of both the Track and Road Cycling World Champs plus the World Cup events


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## patricks148 (Feb 5, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Yes, which has led to track / road success, increased exposure and increased participation.
		
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yep but nothing to do with it being on the BBC in the big scheme of things. That Dave Brailsford had a big impact with his performance program.


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## Jimaroid (Feb 5, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Funny how the boom has been since Britain has enjoyed success at the Olympics and the TDF. Or is that just coincidence? 
Cos i wasnt aware that a child would look at a bike and think: "i'll get into cycling cos bikes are cheaper now than 20 years ago." Didnt know we had such economically minded children in this country.
		
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The successes we had were the result of over ten years of investment, coaching and the determination of a few key people. TV only shows results, it doesn't show the real work involved in getting people to that performance level. 

Kids get into cycling because it's fun and a family activity. Cycling has become more accessible to more people because it's gotten cheaper. TV has done nothing to make cycling more accessible to more people, Chinese manufacturers have had more influence on cycling than any TV broadcaster ever has.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2015)

Jimaroid said:



			The successes we had were the result of over ten years of investment, coaching and the determination of a few key people. TV only shows results, it doesn't show the real work involved in getting people to that performance level. 

Kids get into cycling because it's fun and a family activity. Cycling has become more accessible to more people because it's gotten cheaper. TV has done nothing to make cycling more accessible to more people, Chinese manufacturers have had more influence on cycling than any TV broadcaster ever has.
		
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Sorry but watching the likes of Broadman , Hoy and Wiggins has inspired people to take up the sport - people have watched those people be successful 

Whilst it hard to find a link to success from the sport being on the telly it shouldn't be dismissed the impact the sport has on people when they watch them on telly 

The likes of Trott, Kenny and even  Pendalton were inspired by watching British Cyclists be successful 

Cycling started a big boost after people watched Chris Boardman win Olympic gold and then people followed on after that 

The power of watching someone win should never be under estimated


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## Tongo (Feb 5, 2015)

Jimaroid said:



			The successes we had were the result of over ten years of investment, coaching and the determination of a few key people. TV only shows results, it doesn't show the real work involved in getting people to that performance level. 

Kids get into cycling because it's fun and a family activity. Cycling has become more accessible to more people because it's gotten cheaper. TV has done nothing to make cycling more accessible to more people, Chinese manufacturers have had more influence on cycling than any TV broadcaster ever has.
		
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Yep, British cycling has enjoyed success because of investment which got the sport in this country onto a level playing field, in terms of professionalism etc, with the traditional European powers. 

As for tv, no-one has said that tv has made cycling more accessible. Rather, the point that was originally made was that Sky have set up a number of initiatives, such as the Sky Ride, with the theory that they could do something similar with golf, since they got involved with sponsoring a cycling team and that British success has led to the sport becoming popular and witnessed increased participation. The exposure gained from the sport being on terrestrial tv (Olympics, TDF) has probably helped the sport become popular. Popular is different to accessible.


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## Jimaroid (Feb 5, 2015)

Obviously I'm not saying that TV doesn't have an affect, it's just not the be all and end all that a lot of people think it is. Where do audiences for sports develop? They start in fields and clubs and run down stadiums and the freezing cold and in the back of magazines and newsletters because a few dedicated people believe in their sport. Behind all growing sports you'll find a few key people who have a plan and work hard to achieve success for their belief in it. TV is just one part of a big problem and all it really cares about is the audience a sport can bring to satisfy viewing figures. Those audiences and dedicated people aren't created because of TV, they exist despite TV.  That's what happened with cycling.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 5, 2015)

I'm happy and really don't see the issue. You either pay to watch it on one of the various platforms or you don't but there's still the option to watch it any number of pubs, golf clubs etc that will undoubtedly be showing it


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## Tongo (Feb 5, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



*I'm happy *and really don't see the issue. You either pay to watch it on one of the various platforms or you don't but there's still the option to watch it any number of pubs, golf clubs etc that will undoubtedly be showing it
		
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Good. But many are obviously not. 

As for watching it elsewhere, I refer you to post #179.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 5, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Good. But many are obviously not. 

As for watching it elsewhere, I refer you to post #179.
		
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Well we watched some of the RC at Cuddington and it was a cracking atmosphere and last year my club put a comp on in the morning and pushed food etc to get people to stay and watch the final round. Cracking atmosphere and I don't see a problem watching it with like minded fellow golfers


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## Tongo (Feb 5, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Well we watched some of the RC at Cuddington and it was a cracking atmosphere and last year my club put a comp on in the morning and pushed food etc to get people to stay and watch the final round. Cracking atmosphere and I don't see a problem watching it with like minded fellow golfers
		
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Not everyone can roll up to their local club to watch the golf. Imagine if you werent a golfer and a member of the local club. Do you think you would rock up just to watch the Open? As i said earlier in the thread, some people seem to struggle differentiating between what is good for them and what is good for the game.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 5, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Not everyone can roll up to their local club to watch the golf. Imagine if you werent a golfer and a member of the local club. Do you think you would rock up just to watch the Open? As i said earlier in the thread, some people seem to struggle differentiating between what is good for them and what is good for the game.
		
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Think its god for the game too dependant of course on how the R&A deem to invest the extra revenue. However, even if you aren't a member of a club it'll be on at muni's or ranges. It's about how much you want to watch it. It's on Sky whether you like it or not and the extra revenue has given the R&A a once in a generation opportunity to do something fantastic to leave a lasting legacy at grass root level. It's down to you if you want to watch it and how much you're prepared to put yourself out to do so. Think we're at polar opposites on this so I'll leave it here and agree to disagree


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## Tongo (Feb 5, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Think its god for the game too dependant of course on how the R&A deem to invest the extra revenue. However, even if you aren't a member of a club it'll be on at muni's or ranges. It's about how much you want to watch it. It's on Sky whether you like it or not and the extra revenue has given the R&A a once in a generation opportunity to do something fantastic to leave a lasting legacy at grass root level. It's down to you if you want to watch it and how much you're prepared to put yourself out to do so. Think we're at polar opposites on this so I'll leave it here and agree to disagree
		
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I'm not convinced the R&A will use this once in a generation opportunity though. One could argue that they are in part to blame for the portrayed image of the game in this country and how this image effects the falling participation. (I shall add the caveat that this is obviously not the only reason why people aren't playing the game. Prices may go down as well as up etc. T's and C's apply)


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## Jungle (Feb 5, 2015)

Airsporter1st said:



			My concern, if it has not been voiced already, is that Sky might make the top golf events Pay per View, just as they did with boxing.
		
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Will never happen. 

The whole structure of a four day golfing event just doesn't fit well with a PPV. 

Sky would much prefer you picked up Sports in April and kept it right through to the US PGA, if not beyond.


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## NWJocko (Feb 5, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Think its god for the game too dependant of course on how the R&A deem to invest the extra revenue. However, even if you aren't a member of a club it'll be on at muni's or ranges. It's about how much you want to watch it. It's on Sky whether you like it or not and the extra revenue has given the R&A a once in a generation opportunity to do something fantastic to leave a lasting legacy at grass root level. It's down to you if you want to watch it and how much you're prepared to put yourself out to do so. Think we're at polar opposites on this so I'll leave it here and agree to disagree
		
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Once in a generation!?

My biggest problem with it is that, if the R&A were entertaining Sky they should have got a lot more for the rights than ey have.

The increase really isn't enough to make a massive difference IMO.

I don't like it being only on Sky but, as I say, if it was going to be they should have negotiated a far better price......


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## SAPCOR1 (Feb 5, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Not everyone can roll up to their local club to watch the golf. Imagine if you werent a golfer and a member of the local club. Do you think you would rock up just to watch the Open? As i said earlier in the thread, some people seem to struggle differentiating between what is good for them and what is good for the game.
		
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Is that not exactly the same being able to watch the Open on BBC?  Differentiating what is good for them and good for the game?


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## SAPCOR1 (Feb 5, 2015)

NWJocko said:



			Once in a generation!?

My biggest problem with it is that, if the R&A were entertaining Sky they should have got a lot more for the rights than ey have.

The increase really isn't enough to make a massive difference IMO.

I don't like it being only on Sky but, as I say, if it was going to be they should have negotiated a far better price......
		
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If you put something out to tender you don't turn down the highest bid!


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## NWJocko (Feb 5, 2015)

SAPCOR1 said:



			If you put something out to tender you don't turn down the highest bid!
		
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Surely we're not naive enough to think that when something is out for tender you aren't talking to the likely winners?

R&A could easily have approached Sky to "agree" a price at which they would win that would suit Sky (having all rights) but compensated R&A for the downsides/fallout they have to deal with?


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## delc (Feb 6, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Quite. And the whole Lewis Hamilton beating Rory at the SPOTY demonstrates that success from a UK player is no guarantee of capturing the public's imagination.
		
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Formula One motor racing is seen regularly on the BBC. Golf is mostly on Sky Sports!  QED!


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## Tongo (Feb 6, 2015)

SAPCOR1 said:



			Is that not exactly the same being able to watch the Open on BBC?  Differentiating what is good for them and good for the game?
		
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Well, possibly. But at least on the beeb there is/was the potential (a crucial word) for reaching a wider audience. My point was that people with Sky are saying they cant see the problem. Well, of course they cant. There isnt a problem for them.


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## Tongo (Feb 6, 2015)

delc said:



			Formula One motor racing is seen regularly on the BBC. Golf is mostly on Sky Sports!  QED!
		
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And driving a car at high speed is predictably seen as more glamorous than driving a golf ball!


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## Smiffy (Feb 6, 2015)

delc said:



			Formula One motor racing is seen regularly on the BBC. Golf is mostly on Sky Sports!  QED!
		
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Only 10 of the 20 races this season will be shown on BBC. The other 10 will be highlights.
Even the opening race (Melbourne) isn't being shown, which is a joke!
Fine for the "average" race watcher, but for "true" fans who want to watch each race unfold "as it happens" the only option is Sky.

If you asked most lads what they would rather be, an F1 racer or a golfer, what would the answer be from about 95% of them?
Catering for the masses.


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## colint (Feb 6, 2015)

delc said:



			Formula One motor racing is seen regularly on the BBC. Golf is mostly on Sky Sports!  QED!
		
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F1 is on 20 times a year on the BBC, and also features heavily in every news report during the season. They show one golf event and barely mention it in the news, hardly the same.


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## SAPCOR1 (Feb 6, 2015)

NWJocko said:



			Surely we're not naive enough to think that when something is out for tender you aren't talking to the likely winners?

R&A could easily have approached Sky to "agree" a price at which they would win that would suit Sky (having all rights) but compensated R&A for the downsides/fallout they have to deal with?
		
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Eh, no! Can you imagine the uproar, especially on here, if it emerged that the R&A and Sky had done a deal ahead of the tender ensuring that no other bidder won


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## SugarPenguin (Feb 6, 2015)

at least its not on ITV


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## delc (Feb 6, 2015)

SugarPenguin said:



			at least its not on ITV
		
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At least on ITV you don't have to watch hours of adverts AND pay a hefty monthly subscription!


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## SAPCOR1 (Feb 6, 2015)

delc said:



			At least on ITV you don't have to watch hours of adverts AND pay a hefty monthly subscription!
		
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No adverts on ITV?  Since when?


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## delc (Feb 6, 2015)

SAPCOR1 said:



			No adverts on ITV?  Since when?
		
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Of course there are ads on ITV, but not a subscription as well!


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## fundy (Feb 6, 2015)

6 nations to be next????

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-31163554


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## CMAC (Feb 6, 2015)

fundy said:



			6 nations to be next????

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-31163554

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one can only hope, if they had done that years ago they maybe could've saved the Open.

And thats coming from someone who played Rugby through school and after school and didnt miss a 4 nations, 5 nations, 6 nations game, until it went professional


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## MikeH (Feb 6, 2015)

very interesting to read this thread - I've been sat on my hands until now

here's what I wrote yesterday for the ed's letter welcome that will appear in the next issue

http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/featu...v-rights-believe-ra-made-right-decision-65732


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## bladeplayer (Feb 6, 2015)

MikeH said:



			very interesting to read this thread - I've been sat on my hands until now

here's what I wrote yesterday for the ed's letter welcome that will appear in the next issue

http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/featu...v-rights-believe-ra-made-right-decision-65732

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Just read it on twitter Mike and where my knowledge of the surrounds of the game would be minimal twords yours i take the Premiership as an example , it has grown & grown as have other leagues as a result but Sky Sports News do a thing on grass roots sports & it highlighted  football and it is dying on its feet for money , where did the feed down stop ?

I agree whole heartedly with the reasons you give for the demise of the game (time , image etc)  but nothing of the sky investment is going to change that , just making it more elite TV as much as it seems in reality ..

To me it should be the R&A responsibility to reach out to the ordinary , to include the people who cannot afford sky sports , the people who have sky sports would watch the Open on BBC , but the peple with BBC might not be able to afford Sky , therefore they are cutting & limiting the tv public , that can not be good for any sport 


Apologies if this has been said in the thread i didnt have time to read it all


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## Imurg (Feb 6, 2015)

Is that Â£40 million to be spread around the globe..?
If so, Â£10million a year worldwide isn't going have a huge effect is it..? 
They can get through that on lunches alone...


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 6, 2015)

bladeplayer said:



			Just read it on twitter Mike and where my knowledge of the surrounds of the game would be minimal twords yours i take the Premiership as an example , it has grown & grown as have other leagues as a result but Sky Sports News do a thing on grass roots sports & it highlighted  football and it is dying on its feet for money , where did the feed down stop ?

I agree whole heartedly with the reasons you give for the demise of the game (time , image etc)  but nothing of the sky investment is going to change that , just making it more elite TV as much as it seems in reality ..

To me it should be the R&A responsibility to reach out to the ordinary , to include the people who cannot afford sky sports , the people who have sky sports would watch the Open on BBC , but the peple with BBC might not be able to afford Sky , therefore they are cutting & limiting the tv public , that can not be good for any sport 


Apologies if this has been said in the thread i didnt have time to read it all
		
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Good post - the opinion on this is imo split 50/50 and yours falls into the split im in 

To help grow a sport means it has to be accessible to both play and also watch 

It's a struggle to make it accessible to play but at least before it was accessible to watch for everyone

Now we have to pay to watch it - just like we have to pay to play 

Golfers will watch it on Sky - some golfers will take up Sky or Now TV to watch it 

But how many "non golfers" - the casual watchers who watched the open - they won't pay to watch it - that's a good number of lost viewers gone 

As for the money for the future of the game - English Cricket gets more money into its coffers than it ever has - the telly has increased that fund yet the country game is on its knees 

I'm struggling to think of one sport that Sky's money has improved the sport past the top level where all the money stays

I don't expect the money from the new telly deal will go any lower down than the top level just like the rest


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## delc (Feb 6, 2015)

colint said:



			F1 is on 20 times a year on the BBC, and also features heavily in every news report during the season. They show one golf event and barely mention it in the news, hardly the same.
		
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Actually they have been showing four. The last 2 days of The Masters, the BMW at Wentworth, The Open Championship, and the British Women's Open. All the rest have been hijacked by Sky! Not enough coverage of golf by the BBC now, and even less in the future.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 6, 2015)

Much as I'd love to trust the R&A with developing the game, in its current constitution I don't hold much hope out.  The move to allow female members was trumpeted by them as a progressive move with the times, an example of how they are modernising.  Where as it was mostly driven by the sponsors of the game demanding it.  If that would have not happened then I very much doubt there would have been any movement, and we would still be getting the mealy mouthed statements they used to make where they refused to accept that the practice was any problem.

So best of luck if you feel they will use this money to drag the game kicking and screaming into the 21st century and make it an attractive product for players and sponsors.  

Still, looking on the bright side, I bet you a pound to a penny that Sky will not put up with the open presentation ceremony as it is so with a bit of luck that will change.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 6, 2015)

Nothing wrong with the presentation ceremony - they won't have the power to change it even if they would but there is no need to change it. It serves it's purpose and the people who run the game get to say their thanks to the people that help make the tournament a success - of all the issues involved in the game - a presentation ceremony is nowhere near any list


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 6, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Nothing wrong with the presentation ceremony - they won't have the power to change it even if they would but there is no need to change it. It serves it's purpose and the people who run the game get to say their thanks to the people that help make the tournament a success - of all the issues involved in the game - a presentation ceremony is nowhere near any list
		
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To some it serves it purpose, to others it's everything that is wrong with the image of the game, boring old blokes in blazers rambling on about things the vast majority of the public is not interested in.  Much like this board really. 

We'll see if it will be the same in 2016 then.


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## Wildrover (Feb 6, 2015)

delc said:



			Actually they have been showing four. The last 2 days of The Masters, the BMW at Wentworth, The Open Championship, and the British Women's Open. All the rest have been hijacked by Sky! Not enough coverage of golf by the BBC now, and even less in the future.
		
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They haven't had the BMW for a while either.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 6, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			To some it serves it purpose, to others it's everything that is wrong with the image of the game, boring old blokes in blazers rambling on about things the vast majority of the public is not interested in.  Much like this board really. 

We'll see if it will be the same in 2016 then.
		
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It's a presentation ceremony - the people run the game will present the trophy , they will say their thanks and then hand the trophy over - just like in the Masters or the US Open or the U.S. PGA - of all the things to worry about ?!

Just switch it off but I very very much doubt that the presentation has any effect on people playing the game of golf 

Far more other things to look at 

Maybe it's because it's pleasant and shows respect and tradition without the need for fireworks or ticker tape that makes it "boring"


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 6, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Much as I'd love to trust the R&A with developing the game, in its current constitution I don't hold much hope out.  The move to allow female members was trumpeted by them as a progressive move with the times, an example of how they are modernising.  Where as it was mostly driven by the sponsors of the game demanding it.  If that would have not happened then I very much doubt there would have been any movement, and we would still be getting the mealy mouthed statements they used to make where they refused to accept that the practice was any problem.

So best of luck if you feel they will use this money to drag the game kicking and screaming into the 21st century and make it an attractive product for players and sponsors.  

Still, looking on the bright side, I bet you a pound to a penny that Sky will not put up with the open presentation ceremony as it is so with a bit of luck that will change.
		
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I think you are still failing to spot the difference between the Royal & Ancient Golf Club of St Andrews who recently voted to allow members of either gender and the R&A. The latter being the body that organises the Open, among other events, and does endless work for the promotion of the game, both at home and abroad.

If you are going to express prejudices best to at least do some research.


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## Steve1821 (Feb 6, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Umm when doing highlights isn't it going to be just the shots anyway ? What else are they supposed to show ? 

Not sure what your point is about the prize money ?
		
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You can't get any real atmosphere from a highlights reel compared to watching the event live - not knowing the outcome until you see it. For the Open with Sky, everyone will know the winner long before the "best of" BBC coverage begins. See previous comment regarding the atmosphere of watching at their club, live as it happens

The reference to US prize money being something like Â£200k more than the open was offering - so the Open had to get more cash available, I don't think it would detract the best players from turning up to compete

I probably could afford the Sky package but refuse out of some sort of loyalty to sensible coverage, be that of sport or news so it's my choice, but to too many there is no choice.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 6, 2015)

MetalMickie said:



			I think you are still failing to spot the difference between the Royal & Ancient Golf Club of St Andrews who recently voted to allow members of either gender and the R&A. The latter being the body that organises the Open, among other events, and does endless work for the promotion of the game, both at home and abroad.

If you are going to express prejudices best to at least do some research.
		
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Where am I not spotting the patently obvious difference between 2 organisations with virtually the same name and run by the same man?   Who was trumpeting the women's vote as a progressive move.  

And it's called an opinion.  Which of course can be renamed a prejudice if you don't agree with it.


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## delc (Feb 6, 2015)

I wonder if Sky Sports will or can do anything about the scourge of modern pro golf, slow play? You can often go out for 30 minutes and find that a playing group have played just one hole, or are even still stranded on the same tee! Pretty boring really and not good TV.  At least Peter Alliss & Co could amusingly fill the gaps in play on the Beeb!  On Sky we will probably get the thoughts of some has-been's swing coach! :mmm:


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 6, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Where am I not spotting the patently obvious difference between 2 organisations with virtually the same name and run by the same man?   Who was trumpeting the women's vote as a progressive move.  

And it's called an opinion.  Which of course can be renamed a prejudice if you don't agree with it.
		
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Distinct difference in the activities and objectives of the two organisations and this has been the case since 2004.

Is there a problem with one man being Chief Exec of both?

An opinioon that appears to have no basis in fact can often be a prejudice.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 6, 2015)

MetalMickie said:



			Distinct difference in the activities and objectives of the two organisations and this has been the case since 2004.

*Is there a problem with one man being Chief Exec of both?*

An opinioon that appears to have no basis in fact can often be a prejudice.
		
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Yes if they expect the public to think they are separate if they have virtually the same name and are run by the same person.  

And he's the secretary of the Royal and Ancient Golf Club, not the chief exec. He's the chief exec of the R&A.  I'e done my research. Perhaps you were getting the two confused? It's easily done apparently.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Feb 6, 2015)

MetalMickie said:



			Distinct difference in the activities and objectives of the two organisations and this has been the case since 2004.

Is there a problem with one man being Chief Exec of both?

An opinioon that appears to have no basis in fact can often be a prejudice.
		
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As an accountant, it is drilled into us that just because you know things are separate, if it doesn't appear so to an independent, outside person, then there is an issue, and you will be perceived as being connected.

These two organisations may operate completely separately, but by having a very very very similar name, and the same chap in charge of both, could you really say that to an outside agency they look separate?

If UEFA was called FIFA (of Europe) and was headed by Sepp Blatter, would you argue they are two completely separate entities that operate separately?


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 6, 2015)

I have not trawled through all posts so apologies if this has been mentioned before.

Good decision by the BBC. On the week it was played The Open did not even get into the 20 most viewed 'shows/events'.
You cannot expect the BBC to continue to spend a fortune on an event with such low viewing figures.

Look on the bright side 'Alliss no More'.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 6, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Yes if they expect the public to think they are separate if they have virtually the same name and are run by the same person.  

And he's the secretary of the Royal and Ancient Golf Club, not the chief exec. He's the chief exec of the R&A.  I'e done my research. Perhaps you were getting the two confused? It's easily done apparently.
		
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I was keeping it simple for your benefit.

I cannot see why the public perception of their independent roles would be of any particular interest to either body provided they are meeting their objectives which, in the case of the R&A includes promoting the game at all levels.

There appears to be an assumption on this forum that any extra revenue generated by the new TV deal will end up in the pockets of the players. Whilst the R&A have for many years insisted that prize money at the Open will keep pace with other similar events there is no evidence to suggest that they are planning a major hike in the prize fund.

Rather the extra money will be of considerable assistance in further funding of areas such as international development f the game and promoting golf in schools etc.

I appreciate it is much more fun to dismiss the R&A as anachronistic but that is to deny the truth.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 6, 2015)

I've said before I think the R&A have a once in a generation chance here. Make good with the extra money and grow the game at all levels and around the world and it will be seen to have been a great decision. If not and golf popularity and the image declines and remains seen by many as a game for fuddy duddy's then the R&A have some serious questions to answer


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## Val (Feb 6, 2015)

People who like watching sports have sky sports, it's where most of the quality sports action reside. It was always going to sky, it was just a matter of when.


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## TheJezster (Feb 7, 2015)

Val said:



			People who like watching sports have sky sports, it's where most of the quality sports action reside. It was always going to sky, it was just a matter of when.
		
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Exactly! Sky has been fantastic for sport lovers, absolutely fantastic. As for the comments that non golfers won't be able to watch it now? Poppycock! Since when was it only golfers who have sky? If anyone wants to watch it they can. I've only been playing golf myself for about 4 years but I always put the big tournaments on to watch before I played. And guess what, I had sky! Yes a non golfer with sky... As I said before the bbc can now spend their money on what they are good at to benefit a wider audience. They are not good at sports because it's not their forte and they're not set up to be. Sky are.


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## Val (Feb 7, 2015)

In a reverse of the arguement that many won't see it now, you could possibly say more will because sports fans channel hopping will channel hop sky channels for sport rather than BBC channels.

I'll be honest and say when the masters was on both Sky and BBC I watched sky as I felt their commentary was better, coverage was the same on both due to both using US broadcasters.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 7, 2015)

Val said:



			In a reverse of the arguement that many won't see it now, you could possibly say more will because sports fans channel hopping will channel hop sky channels for sport rather than BBC channels.

I'll be honest and say when the masters was on both Sky and BBC I watched sky as I felt their commentary was better, coverage was the same on both due to both using US broadcasters.
		
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I think Allis mentioned in his article that over double watched the BBC coverage on the Sat and Sun of the masters

But the point about sports fans flicking through channels is a valid one


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## Bobirdie (Feb 7, 2015)

Skys doing a good deal at the moment if you phone up. I got top package inc sky sports. For Â£54 p.m only thing i dont have is the movie package


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## delc (Feb 7, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I have not trawled through all posts so apologies if this has been mentioned before.

Good decision by the BBC. On the week it was played The Open did not even get into the 20 most viewed 'shows/events'.
You cannot expect the BBC to continue to spend a fortune on an event with such low viewing figures.

Look on the bright side 'Alliss no More'.
		
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Should I demand a reduction in my TV licence fee, now that the BBC are no longer spending money on covering golf?  Might contribute a little to taking out a Sky subscription!


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## TheJezster (Feb 7, 2015)

delc said:



			Should I demand a reduction in my TV licence fee, now that the BBC are no longer spending money on covering golf?  Might contribute a little to taking out a Sky subscription!  

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this is a nonsense argument. You don't pay your fee FOR golf you pay your fee so they spend money making or covering programmes that would suit a wide range of people. Clearly golf fell off a cliff on the bbc so it would be a waste of our money to continue to bid for it.


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## Val (Feb 7, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think Allis mentioned in his article that over double watched the BBC coverage on the Sat and Sun of the masters
		
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My don't doubt that, I'm only saying what I did, one thing sky do really well during the majors and the masters in particular is their interview with Jack Nicklaus, I could listen to him talk golf all day.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 7, 2015)

Val said:



			My don't doubt that, I'm only saying what I did, one thing sky do really well during the majors and the masters in particular is their interview with Jack Nicklaus, I could listen to him talk golf all day.
		
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Yeah agree in regards Jack - the fawning over him bt the rest is embarrassing though


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 7, 2015)

I'd rather listen to Nicklaus too and to be honest I think the others were actually respectful rather than fawning. Still better than Alliss and his "all my yesterdays"


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## Smiffy (Feb 8, 2015)

I like listening to Nick Faldo.


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## Dave3498 (Feb 8, 2015)

I haven't read all the replies to this thread, 30 pages, so it may have already been mentioned but how about next year's Olympic coverage?  Do you think we will see much of it, and what difference will it make if a GB player is in contention for a medal?  I understand that there will only be individual, ladies and gents competitions, no team events.


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## Odvan (Feb 8, 2015)

Dave3498 said:



*I haven't read all the replies to this thread, 30 pages,* so it may have already been mentioned but how about next year's Olympic coverage?  Do you think we will see much of it, and what difference will it make if a GB player is in contention for a medal?  I understand that there will only be individual, ladies and gents competitions, no team events.
		
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Digressing but go change your 'post per page' settings. You're still on the default 10.


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## CMAC (Feb 8, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			I like listening to Nick Faldo.
		
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I agree:whoo:

I also like listening to Jack, Monty and Gary. How anyone who loves golf can poo poo listening to what respected legends say about the game we love just amazes me. You don't have to agree with what they say but it's certainly interesting imo.


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## Dave3498 (Feb 8, 2015)

Odvan said:



			Digressing but go change your 'post per page' settings. You're still on the default 10.
		
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Thanks Odvan, but how do I do it?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2015)

Dave3498 said:



			I haven't read all the replies to this thread, 30 pages, so it may have already been mentioned but how about next year's Olympic coverage?  Do you think we will see much of it, and what difference will it make if a GB player is in contention for a medal?  I understand that there will only be individual, ladies and gents competitions, no team events.
		
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The BBC will show all of the golf - when it comes to the Olympics you can watch every single event live


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## Dave3498 (Feb 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The BBC will show all of the golf - when it comes to the Olympics you can watch every single event live
		
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That's good news, but I can't believe they won't cut to track-and-field if they are on at the same time.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2015)

Dave3498 said:



			That's good news, but I can't believe they won't cut to track-and-field if they are on at the same time.
		
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They have multi screen for Olympics - you will be able to watch it all


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## Dave3498 (Feb 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They have multi screen for Olympics - you will be able to watch it all
		
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Thanks.


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## ScienceBoy (Feb 8, 2015)

Seems like a smart decision from the BBC, full live coverage only really served the minority.

The highlights will serve the intended audience far better.

I would love to see more of a variety of golf events on the BBC however, ie the par 3 championship etc.

Also the golf in the Olympics, don't get me started! Many more deserving sports out there should be in before golf, almost bottom of the lists in events I would want to see in the summer games. Even E-Sports is ahead of golf IMO


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2015)

ScienceBoy said:



			Seems like a smart decision from the BBC, full live coverage only really served the minority.

The highlights will serve the intended audience far better.

I would love to see more of a variety of golf events on the BBC however, ie the par 3 championship etc.
		
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Par 3 Championship ? 

The one before the Masters ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 8, 2015)

I'm another fan of Faldo when he's talking golf and not trying to be a wise guy. He's actually quite refreshing when he's doing the coverage of a tournament as he has this week. Has an opinion and isn't afraid to say what he thinks (especially in light of the Tiger injury) and explains what a player is trying to do or thinking. I can't see him joining an over subscribed Sky team which is a shame.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			I like listening to Nick Faldo.
		
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Plummeted in my eyes with his disgraceful comments in regards Garcia and RC2008 

Does his best to appeal to the mashed potato US crowd and succeeds quite well.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Plummeted in my eyes with his disgraceful comments in regards Garcia and RC2008 

Does his best to appeal to the mashed potato US crowd and succeeds quite well.
		
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Wasn't a fan of his RC tenure and he was a fool throughout. However as I said when he's talking golf as he does when he's working for the US networks, he's articulate and I don't think he's patronising or trying specifically to appeal to a US TV crowd. He simply calls it as he sees it and perhaps has more views than many other commentators out there


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## Odvan (Feb 8, 2015)

Dave3498 said:



			Thanks Odvan, but how do I do it?
		
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just head into settings>general settings and schroll down.


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## Dave3498 (Feb 8, 2015)

Odvan said:



			just head into settings>general settings and schroll down.
		
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Thanks. Done it.  Now on 30 per page, but I would still have to read every reply to save repeating someone's previous comment.


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## hopeful (Feb 8, 2015)

Spot on. Couldn't agree more.


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## hopeful (Feb 8, 2015)

Snelly said:



			Participation in the game is dwindling so the R&A decide to restrict the jewel of their crown to a broadcaster that millions cannot or refuse to pay for access.

The utter stupidity of this decision beggars belief.   You only have to look how a similar course of action has affected participation levels in cricket to see the short term folly of this course of action. 

A dark day for the R&A, choosing Murdoch's dosh over safeguarding accessibility to golf for terrestrial TV viewers.   

Fools.  As is anyone who supports their decision.
		
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I'll try that again....Spot on, couldn't agree more.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 11, 2015)

Nice quote from that hipster Peter Dawson regarding this issue.  Not sure if could have tried to sound more like some bewildered old person if he could have tried, I mean who actually sends letters to a postbag anyway nowadays 

_"I can't deny that we've had quite a full postbag from individuals out there who are disappointed by the decision," Dawson told BBC Sport._
_"Some of them have used quite intemperate language as well, if I may say so."_


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 11, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Nice quote from that hipster Peter Dawson regarding this issue.  Not sure if could have tried to sound more like some bewildered old person if he could have tried, I mean who actually sends letters to a postbag anyway nowadays 

_"I can't deny that we've had quite a full postbag from individuals out there who are disappointed by the decision," Dawson told BBC Sport._
_"Some of them have used quite intemperate language as well, if I may say so."_




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Imagine the language he'd have seen if he knew how to check his email, or twitter....


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 11, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Imagine the language he'd have seen if he knew how to check his email, or twitter.... 

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I bet there was some 'intemperate' potty mouth language in some of the telegrams he received as well.


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## PingPlayer15 (Feb 11, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sad day 

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That's probably the reason mcilroy didn't win SPOTY. There is not enough golf on BBC.


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## JohnnyDee (Feb 22, 2015)

Not knowing this thread topic was live (I'm a new kid in town) I started my own But I wanted to express my views so am adding them here after being kindly pointed in this direction. A few weeks late of course but still here goes...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

First of all I have to say I like Sky's coverage of golf. I have a Sky Sports subscription and watch a lot of their golf coverage. I like their team, commentators, analysts and presenters, and all in all I think they do a great job given their business model (i.e. commercial broadcaster reliant on advertising revenue)

However, I am sick as a parrot that they have bagged the exclusive rights to The Open and for me this will ruin my favourite sporting occasion in the year. There is nothing better than pulling up the drawbridge on Open Sunday and watching six hours of interrupted live coverage, and now because of the R&A's greed (in my opinion), we won't have this unrivalled opportunity any longer. Instead we will be tortured with bl**dy adverts butting in every 10 minutes and ruining continuity and atmosphere, despite the Sky team's undoubted efforts to make the experience something close to watchable. Silk purse sow's ear springs to mind as their hands are pretty tied.

Coupled with their ludicrous overbid for Premiership Football I can see the Sky Sports package subscription charges rocketing through the roof. When this does happen, as it inevitably will in the not too distant future (despite what the say about not passing costs on to the punters...yet) it will be time for me to drop my subscription.

I love my televised golf but I won't pay through the nose to subsidise football and other expensive exclusive broadcasting rights. In my view Sky should not have been awarded The Open. A bit naÃ¯ve perhaps in a world that is driven by greed and corporate money-making, but spare a though for those who love The Open, who've watched it year in and year out and who will no longer be able to do so because the can't afford Sky.

It's a shame and a bad show R&A!


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