# Solhiem Cup



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 18, 2015)

Anyone else watching ?

Good start from the Americans 

Some very good golf on show


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## AmandaJR (Sep 18, 2015)

Yep...love watching it and the nerves are palpable.

Great to see Sky covering it from the first tee shot


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 18, 2015)

AmandaJR said:



			Yep...love watching it and the nerves are palpable.

Great to see Sky covering it from the first tee shot 

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Shame about the adverts every 5 mins  

Some great approach shots and putting but the US team really do grate - something about the way they act just gives an instant dislike


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## AmandaJR (Sep 18, 2015)

I have to agree about the ads and they are too long - too much play missed during them.

A bit wide-sweeping but it's the over made up dolly bird look of the USA players I dislike. If Lincicome wasn't in red and white stripes I'd think she was European!


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 18, 2015)

AmandaJR said:



			I have to agree about the ads and they are too long - too much play missed during them.

A bit wide-sweeping but it's the over made up dolly bird look of the USA players I dislike. If Lincicome wasn't in red and white stripes I'd think she was European!
		
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Yes add in the aviators etc 

Where as the Europeans just look very classy and understated 

Just need to hole a few putts now


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 18, 2015)

Where's Wally?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 18, 2015)

The pace of play is soooooo slow !!

Just doesn't seem to have an atmosphere there at the moment


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## Dan2501 (Sep 18, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The pace of play is soooooo slow !!

Just doesn't seem to have an atmosphere there at the moment
		
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That's women's golf for you. Generally, they play bloody slowly.


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## Khamelion (Sep 18, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes add in the aviators etc 

Where as the Europeans just look very classy and understated 

Just need to hole a few putts now
		
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You're forgetting Charley Hull.

And yes it is slow, sorry deliberate as the commentator said.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 18, 2015)

The what????


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 18, 2015)

So we have someone talking about putts on a green yet the picture is off a ball bouncing on the water and a card of the score ?!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 18, 2015)

Opps - forgot - must go stick it on.  really enjoyed the last one.  Go Charlie!!


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## ArnoldArmChewer (Sep 18, 2015)

Some good sloooooow golf being played, however why do some women golfers insist on having their faces painted, they are grown up's aren't they ?


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## ShankyBoy (Sep 18, 2015)

At work, but would be otherwise. I like watching any golf, there really seems to be a bit of needle between them, I don't care how they look or if they play slow...anybody seen Kevin Na! Go Europe!


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## ArnoldArmChewer (Sep 18, 2015)

oooh, I just seen USA's version of Max Wall warming up, one leg in stars the other in stripes, oh dear !!


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## patricks148 (Sep 18, 2015)

only watched 10 mins of it but looks like no face painting and silly ribbons on show..


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## adam6177 (Sep 18, 2015)

ArnoldArmChewer said:



			oooh, I just seen USA's version of Max Wall warming up, one leg in stars the other in stripes, oh dear !!
		
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I like her.  I like her a lot.


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## upsidedown (Sep 18, 2015)

ArnoldArmChewer said:



			oooh, I just seen USA's version of Max Wall warming up, one leg in stars the other in stripes, oh dear !!
		
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Ye Gawd they are an afront to the eyes.......


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 18, 2015)

Lexi Thompson playing today?  She's my favourite US of A'er - dunno why.   Currently the match is on a rain break and I didn't catch it earlier.


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## AmandaJR (Sep 18, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Lexi Thompson playing today?  She's my favourite US of A'er - dunno why.   Currently the match is on a rain break and I didn't catch it earlier.
		
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Yep - won this morning and up this afternoon. Play now on Red Button.


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## backwoodsman (Sep 18, 2015)

ArnoldArmChewer said:



			oooh, I just seen USA's version of Max Wall warming up, one leg in stars the other in stripes, oh dear !!
		
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Can't get it where I am at the mo' else I'd be watching. 

But surely stars and stripes trews is hardly worse than what Poults used to wear?


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## upsidedown (Sep 18, 2015)

wowsha


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## AmandaJR (Sep 18, 2015)

What a shot...GET IN!


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 18, 2015)

I'm away playing in my own team match - Scottish county finals so not looking likely to see any of it.

Don't understand why people get upset with the face painting, just a bit of fun. And I think it's professional golf that's slow, not just women's.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 18, 2015)

Missed it, being at work but solid start by Europe


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 18, 2015)

I'll watch the weekend games with interest. Its still a spectacle, just with more ribbons and curls.


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## richart (Sep 18, 2015)

I enjoyed what I saw today.  

It's golf, tough competition and there are some quite attractive ladies done up to the nines. What is not to like ? Oh and I put it on pause, and let the coverage get half an hour ahead, so I can then fast forward through the ads. Who says I can't do technology.:ears:


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 18, 2015)

richart said:



			I enjoyed what I saw today.  

It's golf, tough competition and there are some quite attractive ladies done up to the nines. What is not to like ? Oh and I put it on pause, and let the coverage get half an hour ahead, so I can then fast forward through the ads. Who says I can't do technology.:ears:
		
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Was that on the Betamax - top loader, or one of the new ones?


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## Norrin Radd (Sep 18, 2015)

I watched most of it today and the golf has been really good,charlie making five birdies in a row was pretty special as was Cigandas eagle at the 17th to get back to all square.


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## richart (Sep 18, 2015)

Liverbirdie said:



			Was that on the Betamax - top loader, or one of the new ones?
		
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 Pah. I can freeze live play. I do wonder how the players know when I want them to start playing again.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 18, 2015)

Recorded it earlier as I was working & golfing myself. 
Enjoy watching this event. 
Charlie Hull just seems to love the pressure.


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## chrisd (Sep 18, 2015)

I watched a couple of hours this afternoon and was very impressed with the European ladies - great golf!


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## pokerjoke (Sep 19, 2015)

Its getting so slow now that even the commentators are getting wound up.

Great result this morning and looking good.


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## Deleted member 3432 (Sep 19, 2015)

pokerjoke said:



			Its getting so slow now that even the commentators are getting wound up.

Great result this morning and looking good.
		
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If I had paid to watch this I would be asking for my money back as there is no excuse for not completing yesterday's game even with a rain break. For gods sake  they are only playing eight games all day.

Great golf being ruined by the time it takes. I lost the will to live watching it!


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## alexbrownmp (Sep 19, 2015)

are the beeb showing any highlights as I'm nowhere near a sky box?


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## Junior (Sep 19, 2015)

Mel Reid has a bit about her, surprised her and Hull have not been paired together after yesterday.    I've not seen Hull and Peterson speak to each other yet !!!!! Love the Sandra Gal and Catriona Matthew pairing.


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## Imurg (Sep 19, 2015)

saving_par said:



			If I had paid to watch this I would be asking for my money back as there is no excuse for not completing yesterday's game even with a rain break. For gods sake  they are only playing eight games all day.

Great golf being ruined by the time it takes. I lost the will to live watching it!
		
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Part of the problem is perception.
I'm not saying then play isn't slow - it is.
It's just it appears slower than it probably is because there's so little going on.
With only 4 matches out on the course there are going to be times when there's simply nothing happening.
Golf is a slow sport to watch unless every hole has a match on it. Then there's always something going on and it appears to be moving faster.


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## Deleted member 3432 (Sep 19, 2015)

Imurg said:



			Part of the problem is perception.
I'm not saying then play isn't slow - it is.
It's just it appears slower than it probably is because there's so little going on.
With only 4 matches out on the course there are going to be times when there's simply nothing happening.
Golf is a slow sport to watch unless every hole has a match on it. Then there's always something going on and it appears to be moving faster.
		
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Do we accept it for what it is, slow?

That then filters down to our level and then we lose people from the game.

It's time pro game was speeded up in my view and that can only be done by issuing penalties and not just to the odd Chinese amateur.


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## Qwerty (Sep 19, 2015)

Looks like Creamer and Pressel could be choking here. Let's hope so!


Edit.. Looking like a huge 3rd shot needed from them into the 603yrd par 5. 

I reckon If Petterson & Hull win this hole they'll go on to Half the match​


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## Imurg (Sep 19, 2015)

saving_par said:



			Do we accept it for what it is, slow?

That then filters down to our level and then we lose people from the game.

It's time pro game was speeded up in my view and that can only be done by issuing penalties and not just to the odd Chinese amateur.
		
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Absolutely agree.
I'm not arguing with the slow play calls...it is slow.
But its probably not much slower than a "normal" Tour event.
Thers s only 4 matches on the course - its going to look slower than it is.

Yes something has to be done but even if they were playing 3 hour round pace it would still appear slow.


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## Qwerty (Sep 19, 2015)

Wow, What a shot from Petterson out of that lie!!


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## Dan2501 (Sep 19, 2015)

Magnificent shot! Love Charley Hull's swing, so good to watch.


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## Qwerty (Sep 19, 2015)

Wow! Unbelievable!  4 down with 5 to play and Petterson and Hull win 4 on the bounce 

All Square on the 18th..


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## chrisd (Sep 19, 2015)

Great win!


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 19, 2015)

Stunning win

What is that awful noise in the background ?!?

The coverage is so poor


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## Qwerty (Sep 19, 2015)

I don't think I've ever seen a comeback like that, 5 wins on the bounce to win 1 up. nerves of steel! :thup:


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## Dan2501 (Sep 19, 2015)

What a win. Superb stuff. Only tuned in when they were 2 down, but amazing that they came back to win.


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## adiemel (Sep 19, 2015)

great comeback from Hull and Petterson, what an amazing morning session for Europe


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## chrisd (Sep 19, 2015)

8-4 brilliant!


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## Imurg (Sep 19, 2015)

Could be all but finished by tonight.....
Good going


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## ArnoldArmChewer (Sep 19, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			I'm away playing in my own team match - Scottish county finals so not looking likely to see any of it.

Don't understand why people get upset with the face painting, just a bit of fun. And I think it's professional golf that's slow, not just women's.
		
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Face painting is fine on a 5 year old !!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 19, 2015)

USofA responding pretty well in afternoon 4balls.  Some absolutely brilliant play from 150yds in.


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## delc (Sep 19, 2015)

Noticed that on the LET website it says you can watch the action live, but when you try to access this, you get a message stating that the video is not available in your country.  Presumably knobbled by Sky Sports who want you to pay a small fortune to watch it on their service.  Hardly helping the "This girl golfs" campaign!


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## ruff-driver (Sep 19, 2015)

*Tweeter Alliss* &#8207;@TweeterAlliss  2m2 minutes ago
I see the Americans are beginning to show their teeth at the #SolheimCup. They're rather shiny, by Jove.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 19, 2015)

3 and a half hours to play 11 holes !! Very poor

They are going to struggle to get all the games done again


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## HawkeyeMS (Sep 19, 2015)

delc said:



			Noticed that on the LET website it says you can watch the action live, but when you try to access this, you get a message stating that the video is not available in your country.  Presumably knobbled by Sky Sports who want you to pay a small fortune to watch it on their service.  Hardly helping the "This girl golfs" campaign!  

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Sky pay a lot of money for the rights to show golf, good money that no doubt benefits women's golf. They are hardly gonna pay the money if the LET are going to simultaneously stream it in the UK are they?


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 19, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			I'm away playing in my own team match - Scottish county finals so not looking likely to see any of it.

Don't understand why people get upset with the face painting, just a bit of fun. And I think it's professional golf that's slow, not just women's.
		
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How did you get on against my daughter today.:lol:
I assume you won as she only rings when she's winning.

She was level par after nine yesterday and 3 down. lost 4/2.
She said the BB was -9 when the match finished

Angus look a bit good


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 19, 2015)

Result just pinged through, a halved match and another hiding for Ayrshire.
Best of luck against Angus tomorrow Karen


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 19, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Result just pinged through, a halved match and another hiding for Ayrshire.
Best of luck against Angus tomorrow Karen
		
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Lol, had no idea she was your daughter! We had a great match played in a friendly spirit. Think a half was fair but I was a wee bit disappointed after being three up a couple of times! Gritty performance from her! 

Winner takes all vs Angus tomorrow!


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Wow. Looks like the Americans picked up on 17 before a concession was made. Amateurish but after the famous incident years ago over a retaken chip-in then it's hard to have too much sympathy.


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## Break90 (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			Wow. Looks like the Americans picked up on 17 before a concession was made. Amateurish but after the famous incident years ago over a retaken chip-in then it's hard to have too much sympathy.
		
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that's a gimme, poor form from the Europeans imho.

that sort of thing could galvanise the Americans for the singles this afternoon


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Poor why? They hadn't decided not to concede it yet I don't think but why should any putt be assumed as conceded?


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## Imurg (Sep 20, 2015)

Sounds like it could have been handled better but the US girl picked up before the putt was conceded so the ref seems to have made the right call.
Harsh but thems the rules....


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## Break90 (Sep 20, 2015)

I get your point, according to the rules.

however imo it goes against the spirit of the game, it was 18 inches away, maximum


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

People can and have missed shorter putts under less pressure.


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## Imurg (Sep 20, 2015)

Break90 said:



			that's a gimme, poor form from the Europeans imho.

that sort of thing could galvanise the Americans for the singles this afternoon
		
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You can't assume a Gimmee at any time


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Cheap there by the USA. 

"Class style USA"?

No your issue is with the ref, not Europe.


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## wrighty1874 (Sep 20, 2015)

Disgraceful behaviour from the European team.I'd like to think a British captain would do the honourable thing. It will definitely fire up the Americans for the singles.


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## MendieGK (Sep 20, 2015)

Imurg said:



			You can't assume a Gimmee at any time
		
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I don't care what anyone says that's was awful from the Europeans. Terrible taste.

They walked off the green like they had conceded. If your not gonna concede don't leave the green.

Poor form

Charlie Hull is crying now, and that's because they know they were in the wrong


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Europe did NOTHING wrong. Only one person did - Lee.


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## MendieGK (Sep 20, 2015)

Imurg said:



			You can't assume a Gimmee at any time
		
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Kellfire said:



			Europe did NOTHING wrong. Only one person did - Lee.
		
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Your brain dead. Golf is about good sportsmanship. Walking off the green when your opponent is still putting is also bad taste.

I fee sorry for any of your opponents you may play in golf


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## Break90 (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			Europe did NOTHING wrong. Only one person did - Lee.
		
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technically you are spot on.

spirit of the game.......you couldn't be further away.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

If they find a way to award USA a half for that last match Pettersen will be rightly livid. 

Ignore the spirit of the game nonsense, only one person broke that by assuming a putt. 

Pathetic from people not under that pressure to say Pettersen did anything wrong.


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## Break90 (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			If they find a way to award USA a half for that last match Pettersen will be rightly livid. 

*Ignore the spirit of the game nonsense*, only one person broke that by assuming a putt. 

Pathetic from people not under that pressure to say Pettersen did anything wrong.
		
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Wow, just wow.


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## Ethan (Sep 20, 2015)

OK, then, another pathetic response then. Peterson was right but she was wrong. Hull had effectively conceded it, and Pettersen should have accepted it as a honest mistake, or now they should find a way to make it right. The US will be fired up now, and if they make a major charge this afternoon, it was Pettersen wot did it.


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## Green Bay Hacker (Sep 20, 2015)

As they are saying it looks as though Charley Hull had conceded it by her actions. Lee's mistake though by not waiting for the call but maybe she had seen Charley walking away and assumed it was given.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Yea, you must ignore it at times like this when something clearly defined in the rules has occurred. 

And it was Hull who walked without conceding, so why is Pettersen getting pelters?

Did Hull mean it as a concession? Maybe but it was never technically conceded. Hull and Lee will both learn from this. Meanwhile Pettersen shows that she knows the rules better than two less experienced players.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

"Europeans suck" eh? 

The chant they did decide on?

Either of them in the spirit of the game?

At worst Pettersen lacked class. At best that entire American huddle did.


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## Break90 (Sep 20, 2015)

For me, the match should be declared a half, simples.


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## MendieGK (Sep 20, 2015)

There's no debate she made a mistake picking it up, but where is the class. 

Maybe if Peterson wasn't 30yds from the hole whilst there opponents were putting it wouldn't have happened. 

Bottom line is, if someone did that to me in a match play. I'd probably walk off, and say 'if it means that much to you'


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## Break90 (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			"Europeans suck" eh? 

The chant they did decide on?

Either of them in the spirit of the game?

At worst Pettersen lacked class. At best that entire American huddle did.
		
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Emotional, in the heat of the moment. Bit like Pettersons reaction in the first place.

both understandable, but both wrong


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## MendieGK (Sep 20, 2015)

That chant was also clearly a joke.


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## happyhacker (Sep 20, 2015)

Hull indicated putt was conceded by walking off after putt stopped. Misunderstanding but the concession was implied. 

Actually hope the Americans stuff them this afternoon now tbh.


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## bozza (Sep 20, 2015)

Apparently Lee was warned more than once yesterday by Pettersen about picking the ball up early. 

You should never, ever pick up a ball in match play until you clearly hear it's been conceded. You shouldn't assume that because someone has walked just off the edge of the green that it's been given.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

If I was that referee I'd refuse to officiate a singles match in protest at being undermined if they declare that match a half.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

If Hull had conceded it she would have told the match referee. She obviously didn't.


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## bozza (Sep 20, 2015)

happyhacker said:



			Hull indicated putt was conceded by walking off after putt stopped. Misunderstanding but the concession was implied. 

Actually hope the Americans stuff them this afternoon now tbh.
		
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Walking off to the edge of the green does not indicate the putt has been conceded! 

Hull was actually still on the green when Lee picked the ball up.


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## Break90 (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			If I was that referee I'd refuse to officiate a singles match in protest at being undermined if they declare that match a half.
		
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No need to mix up the rules of the game and the spirit of the game.

no-one is questioning the fact that according to the rules the referee, Peterson etc are right.


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## chellie (Sep 20, 2015)

What's gone on as I haven't got Sky.


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## happyhacker (Sep 20, 2015)

bozza said:



			Walking off to the edge of the green does not indicate the putt has been conceded! 

Hull was actually still on the green when Lee picked the ball up.
		
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I know the rules. My post indicated my interpretation of how that played out. Lee should 100% not have picked up until hearing the concession being verbalised. 

However taking into account the mistake, should of been conceded post event given the putt distance. Anyway, only an opinion and we all have different ones. 

I certainly wouldn't want to have won a match that way. But heat of the moment does funny things to peoples heads (I know from some of rubbish I've seen and done on football pitches).


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## Beezerk (Sep 20, 2015)

Just seen it on the tv, in fairness given the circumstances I wouldn't have conceded that putt, there's a time to play easy gimmes and a time to play hardball.
Lee knew her mistake straight away, she was clearly in the wrong and the Europeans took advantage.


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## Break90 (Sep 20, 2015)

Could come back to bite the Europeans on the backside this afternoon.


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## Colin L (Sep 20, 2015)

Break90 said:



			For me, the match should be declared a half, simples.
		
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I canâ€™t think of any way in which that could be done within the Rules.  All that could be done, as far as I can see, would be for Europe to concede one of the singles matches - if, that is, there was a wish to find a way to neutralise a most unfortunate incident.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Break90 said:



			Could come back to bite the Europeans on the backside this afternoon.
		
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If we lose playing to the rules then I'm perfectly fine with that.


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## Break90 (Sep 20, 2015)

Colin L said:



			I canâ€™t think of any way in which that could be done within the Rules.  All that could be done, as far as I can see, would be for Europe to concede one of the singles matches - if, that is, there was a wish to find a way to neutralise a most unfortunate incident.
		
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You're absolutely right Colin, and that's not going to happen.

just leaves a bit of a bitter taste for me, that's all.


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## happyhacker (Sep 20, 2015)

Well one positive out of it, certainly going to be a better singles day to watch now!


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## Break90 (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			If we lose playing to the rules then I'm perfectly fine with that.
		
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Me too, assuming that the spirit of the game is borne in mind at the same time.


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## Imurg (Sep 20, 2015)

Just imagine the complete meltdown that would have occurred if we'd had Social Media when Several and Zinger had their spat in the RC.....


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## chellie (Sep 20, 2015)

And I still don't know whats gone on...


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 20, 2015)

I agree that this incident goes against the spirit of the game, shame really.



Remember when the Americans made the Europeans replay after chipping in?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 20, 2015)

Don't think the commentators help, continually going on about it and suggesting the reception in 2 years time over there will be "hostile" Let's just play the singles and see what the score ends up as.


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## Green Bay Hacker (Sep 20, 2015)

What should also have happened was that Hull should have been allowed her birdie putt on 18 and if it had gone in then a lot of the controversy would have died down.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 20, 2015)

chellie said:



			And I still don't know whats gone on...
		
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A USA player picked their ball up on the green believing the put had been conceded, it hadn't, and Europe got the hole and the match, cue arguments etc, left a sour taste and seems to be overshadowing event.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

So Lee's partner told her not to pick it up...


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## Imurg (Sep 20, 2015)

Lee is apparently now saying she could have sworn she heard a concession.
Shouldn't they have stayed on the green and sorted it there before teeing off on the next hole..?
If she thought she heard a concession then she should have spoken up..


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## jp5 (Sep 20, 2015)

Poor from Europe there. Charley Hull stormed off with no interest in watching another putt. 

Come on golf you're meant to be better than that!


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## Ethan (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			Pathetic from people not under that pressure to say Pettersen did anything wrong.
		
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Sorry, are you not also sitting on your sofa commenting? Pathetic for people not under that pressure to say Petterson acted properly, perhaps?


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## la_lucha (Sep 20, 2015)

Was Hull walking off the green or was she walking to Petterson to discuss if they should concede? Did they give the outcome of the hole or did the referee? Did the Europeans "steal" the hole or did the referee? Did the American pick up the ball before it was verbally conceded? I think the only question that really matters in terms of rules and spirit is the last one. Did the American pick up before the hole was verbally conceded?


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## chellie (Sep 20, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			A USA player picked their ball up on the green believing the put had been conceded, it hadn't, and Europe got the hole and the match, cue arguments etc, left a sour taste and seems to be overshadowing event.
		
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Thanks


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## Imurg (Sep 20, 2015)

OK, just seen it for the first time on SSNews
I can see how Lee may have thought that the girls were walking off but it looks to me like they were walking away from the line of sight for the next putt, getting out of the way...although they do seem to keep going...
But I can see that Lee could have thought it had been conceded.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Ethan said:



			Sorry, are you not also sitting on your sofa commenting? Pathetic for people not under that pressure to say Petterson acted properly, perhaps?
		
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Yup. Difference being I have rules to back me up.


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## bozza (Sep 20, 2015)

There you go, ref says they heard nothing or no indication  to say the putt was conceded so Lee made a mistake and will learn from it. 

Now let's move on.


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## patricks148 (Sep 20, 2015)

if the ref says nothing was conceded and he says it was a 2 foot putt. Us usual the USA crying when something does not go their way.

what would have happened if the shoe was on the other foot


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 20, 2015)

bozza said:



			There you go, ref says they heard nothing or no indication  to say the putt was conceded so Lee made a mistake and will learn from it. 

Now let's move on.
		
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Agreed.


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## jp5 (Sep 20, 2015)

bozza said:



			There you go, ref says they heard nothing or no indication  to say the putt was conceded so Lee made a mistake and will learn from it. 

Now let's move on.
		
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He also said the putt could have been conceded without any verabal or other indication from the Europeans!

It was only because they objected to it that he had to apply the penalty.

Though he also announced all square, so seems he may be have been confused himself.


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## Junior (Sep 20, 2015)

The ref has just said he interviewed all parties, no one heard anything and the Europeans said that they never conceded the hole.  So ....

1. Lee should not have picked the ball up without knowing it was conceded.  Especially at that stage of the game.

2. Europeans should NOT have been walking off the green if the ball was still in play.

3. Europeans or Karen Coch should have acted at the time to call the hole a half.


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## bozza (Sep 20, 2015)

jp5 said:



			He also said the putt could have been conceded without any verabal or other indication from the Europeans!

It was only because they objected to it that he had to apply the penalty.

Though he also announced all square, so seems he may be have been confused himself.
		
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No he didn't, he said there was no indication from any European player, caddie, team member that it was conceded and that was confirmed by Lee's partner that she never heard or got any indication it had been conceded.


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## delc (Sep 20, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			A USA player picked their ball up on the green believing the put had been conceded, it hadn't, and Europe got the hole and the match, cue arguments etc, left a sour taste and seems to be overshadowing event.
		
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The rules are quite clear on this. Never pick up a ball until the putt has been verbally conceded. If you are not sure, ask! Definitely Alison Lee's mistake.


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## duncan mackie (Sep 20, 2015)

Colin L said:



			I canâ€™t think of any way in which that could be done within the Rules.  All that could be done, as far as I can see, would be for Europe to concede one of the singles matches - if, that is, there was a wish to find a way to neutralise a most unfortunate incident.
		
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Indeed.

The real problem is that the one option that Europe would have wished for (to go back and have the putt played without penalty) isn't available. 

They had a small windows of choice in which they could have agreed that the putt was conceded but that's hard to do in the moment when you have conciously decided not to do so - and there's also the suggestion that the player had already been warned over her actions in presuming concessions.

Conceding the 18th or a singles match gives the US player who was at fault a clear advantage from their action - hardly fair in any way at all. 

Watching the refs explanation of events was refreshing - by the book in every way. 

The comentators haven't done anything other than build the fires - picking up your ball rather than putting isn't a technicality any more than any other rule; it's the most basic premise of all forms of golf. However people do do it (one of our opponents did it last week!).

An unfortunate incident but absolutely nothing to compare to the cold calculated US action regarding the chipped in ball - only my opinion of course.


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## bozza (Sep 20, 2015)

duncan mackie said:



			Indeed.

The real problem is that the one option that Europe would have wished for (to go back and have the putt played without penalty) isn't available. 

They had a small windows of choice in which they could have agreed that the putt was conceded but that's hard to do in the moment when you have conciously decided not to do so - and there's also the suggestion that the player had already been warned over her actions in presuming concessions.

Conceding the 18th or a singles match gives the US player who was at fault a clear advantage from their action - hardly fair in any way at all. 

Watching the refs explanation of events was refreshing - by the book in every way. 

The comentators haven't done anything other than build the fires - picking up your ball rather than putting isn't a technicality any more than any other rule; it's the most basic premise of all forms of golf. However people do do it (one of our opponents did it last week!).

An unfortunate incident but absolutely nothing to compare to the cold calculated US action regarding the chipped in ball - only my opinion of course.
		
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Well said. 

People seem to think sportsmanship comes before the rules, it doesn't, simple as that. 

What about Dustin the other year at Whistling Straits where he grounded his club in a area he didn't realise was a bunker and misses the play off. 

Out of "sportsmanship" do you think oh he's made a stupid mistake and didn't break the rules on purpose let's ignore the rules and let him get away with it.

It's a harsh lesson but I bet Lee will never do it again.


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## Ethan (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			Yup. Difference being I have rules to back me up.
		
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Well, we all know the rules, but it appears not everyone knows about the spirit of the game or professional integrity. 

The rules allowed Europe not to enforce the penalty, and to concede the 18th at any point before completion.


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## DCB (Sep 20, 2015)

Well at least we're assured of a good afternoons golf. It'll go right to the wire now.


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## SaintHacker (Sep 20, 2015)

Junior said:



			2. Europeans should NOT have been walking off the green if the ball was still in play.

.
		
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According to the ref they were walking across the green, not yet off it, so in my iopiniion the fault is solely with the Americans. What would they do if the boot was on the other foot? Exactly the same is my guess. 
You don't pick up until someone tells you to, its a simple rule with absolutely no grey areas. USA have mucked up, they know it and as usual they want to blame everyone else for it. 
I really hope Europe give them a sound beating today.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Ethan said:



			Well, we all know the rules, but it appears not everyone knows about the spirit of the game or professional integrity. 

The rules allowed Europe not to enforce the penalty, and to concede the 18th at any point before completion.
		
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They did and thankfully the European team didn't overlook the blatant penalty by choosing to use either option.


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## Oddsocks (Sep 20, 2015)

Rules are rules, and as such as long as the game it played within them it's case closed.  If Lee had any doubt she should have asked...... 

Is it possible that she was so focused, she made a careless mistake?

Unfortunately like in most sports the yanks often dummy spit if it goes against them, and as per the chip in Europe normally get shafted and go with it.

There seems two different attitudes, if they thought it fair to go against the chip in then I'm not going to lose sleep over lee's MISTAKE!


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## Ethan (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			They did and thankfully the European team didn't overlook the blatant penalty by choosing to use either option.
		
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In matchplay it is only a penalty if enforced, Mr Rules Guy. I bet you are a real joy to play golf with. Have you a stopwatch for ball searches?


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## jp5 (Sep 20, 2015)

bozza said:



			Well said. 

People seem to think sportsmanship comes before the rules, it doesn't, simple as that. 

What about Dustin the other year at Whistling Straits where he grounded his club in a area he didn't realise was a bunker and misses the play off. 

Out of "sportsmanship" do you think oh he's made a stupid mistake and didn't break the rules on purpose let's ignore the rules and let him get away with it.

It's a harsh lesson but I bet Lee will never do it again.
		
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Difference is Johnson is playing against the field whereas the yanks were playing against a European two-ball, who could have diffused the problem there, or on the 18th.

Nothing in the rule book about walking straight over your partners line, but players do it out of sportsmanship.

Have always admired golf as played by people that want to win, but want to win fairly. This leaves a sour taste.


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## Slime (Sep 20, 2015)

FWIW I think the Europeans should have decided on a half for that hole.
Both teams are in the wrong.
USA inadvertantly broke the rules but Europe contravened the true spirit of a great team event.
Once the problem had arisen, the Europe team were the only ones who could have done something about it .................. and they didn't.
They missed a great PR opportunity there too.

*Slime*.


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## Oddsocks (Sep 20, 2015)

If you watch this link it states the ref called the score before the hole was decided.  If that's the case does the whole situation not come from the ref calling a score which was not his position to do so?

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/rules-expert-kendra-graham-discusses-controversy/


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Ethan said:



			In matchplay it is only a penalty if enforced, Mr Rules Guy. I bet you are a real joy to play golf with. Have you a stopwatch for ball searches?
		
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Are you admitting you look for longer than five minutes? That's the only logical conclusion from your post.


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## Hickory_Hacker (Sep 20, 2015)

A drama over nothing. Dame Laura and Robert Lee are on the planet zorb, it wasn't conceded ... I'll see that putt in chubby


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Slime said:



			FWIW I think the Europeans should have decided on a half for that hole.
Both teams are in the wrong.
USA inadvertantly broke the rules but Europe contravened the true spirit of a great team event.
Once the problem had arisen, the Europe team were the only ones who could have done something about it .................. and they didn't.
They missed a great PR opportunity there too.

*Slime*.
		
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Europeans did nothing wrong and played the game within the rules of golf

Can't ask for anything more than that

If you believe they have broken something then please highlight which rule


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## Oddsocks (Sep 20, 2015)

Slime said:



			FWIW I think the Europeans should have decided on a half for that hole.
Both teams are in the wrong.
USA inadvertantly broke the rules but Europe contravened the true spirit of a great team event.
Once the problem had arisen, the Europe team were the only ones who could have done something about it .................. and they didn't.
*They missed a great PR opportunity there too.*

*Slime*.
		
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Why should they be forced to take the hit when the mistake wasn't theirs?  Put another spin on it would be if at the end of the even it was halved and that becomes the decider " you only one because of a charity give " ......

As it is it's clear, it's played within the rules.

The American team manager in the green knew it was lee's mistake with her expression.


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## Imurg (Sep 20, 2015)

Slime said:



			USA inadvertantly broke the rules
		
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Has anyone actually heard the US team admit that their player broke the rule yet..?
Their anger is entirely focussed on the Sportsmanship angle, conveniently pushing aside the fact that Lee picked up without the putt being conceded.


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## Oddsocks (Sep 20, 2015)

So lee's mistake is because of poor sportsmanship, Typical Americans , always someone else's fault.

I lost my club champs match play final through a wrong call, there was a percentage of bad sportsmanship involved, but two facts were clear:

The error was MINE
Not knowing the rules clearly and not checking the rule online/via pro shop  before proceeding was also MINE

In this case the error was LEES, she knew the rule.

Case closed.


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## duncan mackie (Sep 20, 2015)

Imurg said:



			Has anyone actually heard the US team admit that their player broke the rule yet..?
Their anger is entirely focussed on the Sportsmanship angle, conveniently pushing aside the fact that Lee picked up without the putt being conceded.
		
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The slight was focused on Charlie for walking off the green and implying that the putt was conceded in doing so - hints of entrapment! I think this is what upset Charlie as well; she's mortified that her innocent act is being viewed this way. If entrapped then Lee was of entirely blameless in the eyes of the US Captain.

Then of course it's all the fault of the European Captain for not instructing her team to concede the last hole.....see earlier post for how his would mean that a mistake by the US player gained her team an advantage. Can really see the European Team appreciating their Captain's gesture of sportsmanship; no doubt they would have taken it even further in their singles games and rolled over completely!

I would just highlight that such issues are almost always simple at the single player level, you act as you feel comfortable knowing that everything that happened involves you ie feeling fully informed etc. Move it up to a basic pairs match and things get hugely complicated. You know you don't know everything that's been seen or said, the actions or intentions of your partner let alone both the opponents! Decisions affect others etc etc. 10x more difficult for simple solutions to be chosen and executed. Move up again to a club match and the consideration for how others on the team might react to what you do becomes debilitating.

Now make it an international televised event with a ref and a Captain....


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 20, 2015)

I don't really care about the outcome of the cup, I'm just happy to see Mel Reid on my tellybox for 3 days


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## Slime (Sep 20, 2015)

Hickory_Hacker said:



			A drama over nothing. Dame Laura and Robert Lee are on the planet zorb, it wasn't conceded ... *I'll see that putt in chubby* 

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Chubby? That's really hilarious !
I'll see that putt in as I rudely walk off the green ..................... is that what you're saying?



Liverpoolphil said:



*Europeans did nothing wrong* and played the game within the rules of golf
Can't ask for anything more than that
*If you believe they have broken something then please highlight which rule*

Click to expand...

Yes they did, they walked off the green whilst their oponent's ball was still in play.

You'll have to do a whole lot better than that, Phil. I never said the Europeans had broken a rule, as well you know, merely that they weren't playing in the correct spirit of such an event.
Winning, for me, is not everything.
I'd sooner lose with dignity than win without dignity, maybe that's where we differ?

*Slime*.


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## Imurg (Sep 20, 2015)

They were still on the green when Lee picked up.
They were moving towards the edge, granted, but they hadn't left the green
Another point...
Petersen, being the senior partner, may well have been the one giving putts all the way round. Maybe, we don't know, she agreed with Charley that Suzann would make decisions on gimmees.
If so, after 16 previous holes I'd have been looking to Petersen for the decision and not assuming the putt was given by Charley moving away.
Bottom line is that Lee made the error.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Slime said:



			Yes they did, they walked off the green whilst their oponent's ball was still in play.
		
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Did they? Genuine question because as far as I saw Hull was walking towards Pettersen and was still on the green when Lee picked it up.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Slime said:



			Chubby? That's really hilarious !
I'll see that putt in as I rudely walk off the green ..................... is that what you're saying?



Yes they did, they walked off the green whilst their oponent's ball was still in play.

You'll have to do a whole lot better than that, Phil. I never said the Europeans had broken a rule, as well you know, merely that they weren't playing in the correct spirit of such an event.
Winning, for me, is not everything.
I'd sooner lose with dignity than win without dignity, maybe that's where we differ?

*Slime*.
		
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Just seen it and the Europeans were still on the green when she picked it up


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## Hickory_Hacker (Sep 20, 2015)

Hull isn't the brightest light bulb ... What's wrong with walking off the green or to the direction of the next tee?


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## Ethan (Sep 20, 2015)

There is a saying "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men." This is very applicable in matchplay golf.


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## freddielong (Sep 20, 2015)

It may be worth pointing out to Sky sports that it was the Americans error picked up by the ref  yet everyone blaming the Europeans. 


Seve would have loved it if that happened in one of his matches


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Immense respect for Pettersen, sticking to the rules and expecting others to, when she must know the media backlash that will come her way.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Anyway back to the play...

Some of the putts being made are extraordinary. Fantastic flat stick skills all weekend.


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## Slime (Sep 20, 2015)

Hickory_Hacker said:



			Hull isn't the brightest light bulb ... *What's wrong with walking off the green* or to the direction of the next tee?
		
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It's rude ..................... and that's important to me, maybe not to you, but it is to me.

*Slime*.


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## adiemel (Sep 20, 2015)

There have been some really great approach shots and some great putting on display. Have thoroughly enjoyed watching it.


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## Ethan (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			Immense respect for Pettersen, sticking to the rules and expecting others to, when she must know the media backlash that will come her way.
		
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You make it sound like she didn't have a choice. If so then you don't know the rules. With such a choice then either option was sticking to the rules. You are supporting a jobsworth type approach to the rules.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Ethan said:



			You make it sound like she didn't have a choice. If so then you don't know the rules. With such a choice then either option was sticking to the rules. You are supporting a jobsworth type approach to the rules.
		
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Nope, what I said clearly showed that she did have a choice and she stuck to the correct one. That's why I have respect. 

That said, considering no clear concession was offered Lee would have been replacing her ball with a one shot penalty anyway. 

A concession can't come after the pick up, so allowing her the putt wasn't an option. As Pettersen and Hull were interviewed by the ref we know that no concession was offered. Lee's partner also instructed her not to pick up the bal, sadly just too late. 

Rules adherence either way actually would've cost the USA the hole.


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## Slime (Sep 20, 2015)

adiemel said:



			There have been some really great approach shots and some great putting on display. Have thoroughly enjoyed watching it.
		
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There's certainly some great golf being played out there, it's a shame it'll be overshadowed by the needless controversy from this morning.



Ethan said:



			You make it sound like she didn't have a choice. If so then you don't know the rules. With such a choice then either option was sticking to the rules. You are supporting a jobsworth type approach to the rules.
		
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:thup:

*Slime*.


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## GB72 (Sep 20, 2015)

Look at it from the other point of view. Was there not an argument that Tiger picked up the ball before the concession was made during the Ryder Cup  and he immediately conceded the match.

Maybe the sporting thing to have done was admit the mistake and concede the hole.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

GB72 said:



			Look at it from the other point of view. Was there not an argument that Tiger picked up the ball before the concession was made during the Ryder Cup  and he immediately conceded the match.

Maybe the sporting thing to have done was admit the mistake and concede the hole.
		
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The only mistake was made by the USA!


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## adiemel (Sep 20, 2015)

Agree with you Slime, would be a shame for the controversy to take away from what has been an otherwise excellent three days of golf.


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## Three (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire;

At worst Pettersen lacked class. At best that entire American huddle did.[/QUOTE said:
			
		


			You only need to watch her at a tournament for a short time to know that is common knowledge. 
Horrible person.
		
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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 20, 2015)

Rules, sportsmanship, spirit of the game.

Clearly these mean different things to different people on here.


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## Three (Sep 20, 2015)

Ethan said:



			I bet you are a real joy to play golf with. Have you a stopwatch for ball searches?
		
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What's wrong with that? 
It's 5 minutes, makes perfect sense for someone to announce they are timing, then everyone knows where they stand.


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## Slime (Sep 20, 2015)

drive4show said:



			Rules, sportsmanship, spirit of the game.

Clearly these mean different things to different people on here.
		
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Clearly they do, but they're all equally important to me.

*Slime*.


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## alexbrownmp (Sep 20, 2015)

Golf is the clear loser over this unfortunately. It could have been cleared up amicably within the spirit of the game. A rookie makes a clear mistake and its pounced on.

I'm sorry to say Hulls immediate walk would appear to dismiss the next putt as a gimme but I am fully aware of the rules, and the spirit. 

Who wants to win over a technicality, not I, ever.


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## Slime (Sep 20, 2015)

alexbrownmp said:



*Golf is the clear loser over this unfortunately. It could have been cleared up amicably within the spirit of the game.* A rookie makes a clear mistake and its pounced on.

I'm sorry to say *Hulls immediate walk would appear to dismiss the next putt as a gimme* but I am fully aware of the rules, and the spirit. 
*
Who wants to win over a technicality, not I, ever*.
		
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Welcome to my world, albeit a seemingly  minority world :thup:.

*Slime*.


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## MendieGK (Sep 20, 2015)

drive4show said:



			Rules, sportsmanship, spirit of the game.

Clearly these mean different things to different people on here.
		
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Some of the people on here I hope I never have to play with. 

We constantly talk about why golf participation is declining yet we are basically saying win at all costs with no give or take between opponents. Very sad IMO.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

MendieGK said:



			Some of the people on here I hope I never have to play with. 

We constantly talk about why golf participation is declining yet we are basically saying win at all costs with no give or take between opponents. Very sad IMO.
		
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Some of us want to play by the rules. Others want to waive the rules when it suits. 

I know the type of person I'd rather be partnered with.


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## JT77 (Sep 20, 2015)

Lots of views on this so far, I think it could have been resolved a lot better,  lee was clearly in the wrong, but I can understand why, however linsicombe apparently told her to not lift but was too late to stop her. 
Peterson. Could have said its ok, but chose not, that's her call unless the captain stood in, which as we heard on TV,  she chose not too. 
As an aside, does anyone think the us team would have said nah it's ok? And not enforced the penalty? 

The actual play though had been really impressive for the most part, and enjoyable.
If only they could speed up a bit, a problem in all pro golf unfortunately.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

How about the person accidently plays the wrong ball ? Just a mistake 

Shall every rule mistake just be ignored ?

These girls are playing in the biggest team comp on ladies golf and followed the rules yet seem to be getting the brunt of all the flak.

The us team would have done exactly the same thing 

The spirit of the game is also to play within the rules and laws of the game - the Europeans played to those rules

Lee was warned twice yesterday and also understand her partner said something as well


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## SaintHacker (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How about the person accidently plays the wrong ball ? Just a mistake 

Shall every rule mistake just be ignored ?

These girls are playing in the biggest team comp on ladies golf and followed the rules yet seem to be getting the brunt of all the flak.

The us team would have done exactly the same thing 

The spirit of the game is also to play within the rules and laws of the game - the Europeans played to those rules

Lee was warned twice yesterday and also understand her partner said something as well
		
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Totally agree


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## alexbrownmp (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How about the person accidently plays the wrong ball ? Just a mistake 

Shall every rule mistake just be ignored ?

These girls are playing in the biggest team comp on ladies golf and followed the rules yet seem to be getting the brunt of all the flak.

*The us team would have done exactly the same thing* 

The spirit of the game is also to play within the rules and laws of the game - the Europeans played to those rules

Lee was warned twice yesterday and also understand her partner said something as well
		
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what is it they say about two wrongs!


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## bozza (Sep 20, 2015)

What makes me laugh a few weeks ago a bloke on here got slated after his said a bloke in his club champs forgot to sign is card after the first round but a group of them got together and decided to break the rule out of "sportsmanship" and let him play. 

Now the same people are saying rules should be broken for "sportsmanship"


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## Craigg (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How about the person accidently plays the wrong ball ? Just a mistake 

Shall every rule mistake just be ignored ?

These girls are playing in the biggest team comp on ladies golf and followed the rules yet seem to be getting the brunt of all the flak.

The us team would have done exactly the same thing 

The spirit of the game is also to play within the rules and laws of the game - the Europeans played to those rules

Lee was warned twice yesterday and also understand her partner said something as well
		
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Whilst I see your point. Playing the wrong ball is a very, vary rare occurrence in professional golf. Whereas gimmies happen on pretty much every green in this format. She was wrong to pick up, but I think your comparison is not a good one.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

alexbrownmp said:



			what is it they say about two wrongs!
		
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But they aren't "wrongs"


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Craigg said:



			Whilst I see your point. Playing the wrong ball is a very, vary rare occurrence in professional golf. Whereas gimmies happen on pretty much every green in this format. She was wrong to pick up, but I think your comparison is not a good one.
		
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It's just an example of an accidental rule break - you can pick any of them 

I think its massively unfair the amount of grief being heaped on people just for following the rules.


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## alexbrownmp (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But they aren't "wrongs"
		
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in your opinion.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

alexbrownmp said:



			in your opinion.
		
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In the opinion of the laws and rules of the game that we are all supposed to play too


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

alexbrownmp said:



			in your opinion.
		
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No, by the rules.


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## Slime (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's just an example of an accidental rule break - you can pick any of them 
*
I think its massively unfair the amount of grief being heaped on people just for following the rules.*

Click to expand...








*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Slime said:









*Slime*.
		
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Posting pictures doesn't make it any different 

A young 19 year old girl has ended up in tears over it because she is getting the grief yet has done nothing wrong.


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## Slime (Sep 20, 2015)

Charlie Hull was also reduced to tears ...................... very sad to see, and so unavoidable too!

*Slime*.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Slime said:



			Charlie Hull was also reduced to tears ...................... very sad to see, and so unavoidable too!

*Slime*.
		
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Yep all she had to do was say that walking was an indication of a concession. Which she didn't. Her conscious is clear.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Looking like a US win at the moment - lots of red up


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Imagine if Pettersen turned hers around and made the retaining/winning point...


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## Slime (Sep 20, 2015)

The irony is that Pettersen could hole the putt to retain the Solheim Cup.
That'll leave a bitter taste.

*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Slime said:



			The irony is that Pettersen could hole the putt to retain the Solheim Cup.
That'll leave a bitter taste.

*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...

And would be a fitting end to a great comp


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## Slime (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And would be a fitting end to a great comp
		
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So utterly predictable.

*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Slime said:



			So utterly predictable.

*Slime*.
		
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Peterson has played well - the Europeans have played well and for one of their leaders to hole the winning putt would be a fitting end to a very good comp.


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## Slime (Sep 20, 2015)

I'd sooner any other European won it rather than Pettersen.

*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Slime said:



			I'd sooner any other European won it rather than Pettersen.

*Slime*.
		
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And if Peterson does have a putt to win it then what ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

The coverage is absolutely shocking !! Missing so many shots that are crucial - Hull birdie and Masson shoves it right next to the pin on 18 ?! Yet we haven't seen anything


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And if Peterson does have a putt to win it then what ?
		
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The USA won't concede it.


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## Slime (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And if Peterson does have a putt to win it then what ?
		
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It won't come to that.

*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Slime said:



			It won't come to that.

*Slime*.
		
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That avoided the question very well

Certainly going to come down to it at the moment


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## Slime (Sep 20, 2015)

I think it will now.
If that's the case, I'd want her to hole it .......................... obviously.

*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Slime said:



			Or will it?

*Slime*.
		
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You will be happy now then - Peterson is going to lose


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## Slime (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You will be happy now then - Peterson is going to lose
		
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Why will that make me happy?

*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Slime said:



			Why?

*Slime*.
		
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Well it appears from your posting that you wouldn't be happy with Peterson winning after calling her a "disgrace" earlier ? 

Or does it get forgotten if she wins ?


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## Slime (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's just an example of an accidental rule break - you can pick any of them 

I think its massively unfair the amount of grief being heaped on people just for following the rules.
		
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And we all know what assumptions are ........................ and you make an awful lot of them!

*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Slime said:



			And we all know what assumptions are ........................ and you make an awful lot of them!

*Slime*.
		
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Bitter Taste

Sooner someone else won 

Calling her a disgrace 

It's quite easy to make assumptions when you post the above in relation to Peterson. 

The US have won I'm pretty sure the US will lap up the karma.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

It's not karma if the U.S. win it, it's their amazing ability in singles which we all know the Americana excel at.


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## Ethan (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			Some of us want to play by the rules. Others want to waive the rules when it suits. 

I know the type of person I'd rather be partnered with.
		
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That is a false characterisation of the rules. In match play the opponent has the right to enforce the rule or not. Choosing not to enforce is NOT waiving a rule, it is exercising a legitimate choice and what Pettersen should have done in my opinion. 

I too know the sort of person I like to play with.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Ethan said:



			That is a false characterisation of the rules. In match play the opponent has the right to enforce the rule or not. Choosing not to enforce is NOT waiving a rule, it is exercising a legitimate choice and what Pettersen should have done in my opinion. 

I too know the sort of person I like to play with.
		
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It's very hard to judge her actions by using what we would do because none of us can contemplate what it's like to be in that situation.

It's not a knock about at the weekend

It's the biggest team comp in ladies golf 

The fact that keeps being ignored is the girl was warned twice by her opponents the day before and even her pp warned her.


The US played wonderfully in the singles and deserved to win with that performance. Fully expect them to be humble in victory im sure


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Ethan said:



			That is a false characterisation of the rules. In match play the opponent has the right to enforce the rule or not. Choosing not to enforce is NOT waiving a rule, it is exercising a legitimate choice and what Pettersen should have done in my opinion. 

I too know the sort of person I like to play with.
		
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I explained earlier how actually the only other option was for Lee to replace her ball under a one stroke penalty. The only way around that was for the Europeans to lie and say they conceded. 

So you're suggesting the Europeans should've lied?


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## alexbrownmp (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			I explained earlier how actually the only other option was for Lee to replace her ball under a one stroke penalty. *The only way around that was for the Europeans to lie and say they conceded.* 

So you're suggesting the Europeans should've lied?
		
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are you deliberately being obtuse?

The Europeans didnt need to enforce the penalty as Ethan has explained several times to you, that doesnt involve lying.


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## Slime (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Bitter Taste
Sooner someone else won 
Calling her a disgrace 
It's quite easy to make assumptions when you post the above in relation to Peterson. 

The US have won I'm pretty sure the US will lap up the karma.
		
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Yes, I would sooner someone else had won it ................... as per a previous post;



Slime said:



			I'd sooner any other European won it rather than Pettersen.
*Slime*.
		
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so don't try to twist things to appear that I'd sooner the Americans had won, very petty.


The Cup was won by the better team, unfortunately that was America.
No-one will ever know what effect the controversy had on either team, but I would guess that it boosted the Americans more than the Europeans.

I don't understand the 'bitter taste' comment, very strange.

*Slime*.


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## alexbrownmp (Sep 20, 2015)

Well done USA, the ladies version of Miracle at Medinha


Just looked on twitter and pro's and respected journalists from golf mags are saying things like, "justice", "someone scored an own goal this morning", "says it all" and these are all Europeans


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## Ethan (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's not a knock about at the weekend

It's the biggest team comp in ladies golf
		
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My apologies. I thought they were just playing to see who got the Bakewell Tarts in at the end.


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## alexbrownmp (Sep 20, 2015)

Ethan said:



			My apologies. I thought they were just playing to see who got the Bakewell Tarts in at the end.
		
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Wheres the massive LIKE button


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Ethan said:



			My apologies. I thought they were just playing to see who got the Bakewell Tarts in at the end.
		
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Excellent - guess I didn't make a valid point then and maybe you know exactly how to react in that situation


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

alexbrownmp said:



			Well done USA, the ladies version of Miracle at Medinha


Just looked on twitter and pro's and respected journalists from golf mags are saying things like, "justice", "someone scored an own goal this morning", "says it all" and these are all Europeans
		
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Yes seen a few comments on Twitter - think it was Piers Morgan who called them "sporting cheats"


@piersmorgan: Very glad the Americans won  #SolheimCup.
Sporting cheats should never prosper.
Shame on you @suzannpettersen. Pathetic performance.

Who are the justice tweets from ?


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## Ethan (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes seen a few comments on Twitter - think it was Piers Morgan who called them "sporting cheats"


@piersmorgan: Very glad the Americans won  #SolheimCup.
Sporting cheats should never prosper.
Shame on you @suzannpettersen. Pathetic performance.
		
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He is just trying to ingratiate himself with Americans who pretty much hate him currently.


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## Craigg (Sep 20, 2015)

I believe Mr Morgan also opened his big trap in a spat regading a few England cricketers a while back. He reall should stay out of things that don't concern him.


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## Three (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's very hard to judge her actions by using what we would do because none of us can contemplate what it's like to be in that situation.

It's not a knock about at the weekend

 /QUOTE]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha 

Hypocrite. 

Maybe you can remember that the next time you throw your judgement on a scenario that's given on here. 



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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Three said:





Liverpoolphil said:



			It's very hard to judge her actions by using what we would do because none of us can contemplate what it's like to be in that situation.

It's not a knock about at the weekend

 /QUOTE]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha 

Hypocrite. 

Maybe you can remember that the next time you throw your judgement on a scenario that's given on here. 



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Eh ? 

Is that the scenario where you "asked" for people to make judgements on ?
		
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## richart (Sep 20, 2015)

alexbrownmp said:



			Golf is the clear loser over this unfortunately. It could have been cleared up amicably within the spirit of the game. A rookie makes a clear mistake and its pounced on.

I'm sorry to say Hulls immediate walk would appear to dismiss the next putt as a gimme but I am fully aware of the rules, and the spirit. 

Who wants to win over a technicality, not I, ever.
		
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 Totally agree. Hull was walking off the green at some speed. If the American had putted out, she would have had to wait for her to stand still. If you haven't conceded the putt stand where you are, and don't frog march across the green to the next tee.

Great opportunity to show the game in a good light, but all it will be remembered for is the poor sportsmanship and tears. Europe moaned like hell when they were made to play a chip again years ago, but when they have the chance to show they are bigger than that, they blow it. Technically they were in the right, but they also could still have conceded after the event.

Well played to the Americans, especially Alison Lee, and Europe got what they deserved in my opinion. If we had halved or won the match by a point the poor sportsmanship would have rumbled on for ever. 

Golf from both sides was brilliant, birdies galore, but that will not get reported as much as a 'not conceded putt'. Great advert for the game.


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## MendieGK (Sep 20, 2015)

Personally I'm glad USA won. Karen Cochs interview tarnished the whole event. 

You can argue the rules all you like but the real loser in this was - Golf.


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## Ethan (Sep 20, 2015)

Pettersen is a Nike staffer. Odds on an apology within the week. 

May or may not be sincere.


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## chrisd (Sep 20, 2015)

It's not the first time and certainly won't be the last time that a match turns on a controversial gimme at all levels if the game  - I just wonder whether a standard phrase should be used as the word "provisional" has to be in other circumstances. Maybe "shot conceded" or something like that could be bought into the rules?c


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

richart said:



			Totally agree. Hull was walking off the green at some speed. If the American had putted out, she would have had to wait for her to stand still. If you haven't conceded the putt stand where you are, and don't frog march across the green to the next tee.

Great opportunity to show the game in a good light, but all it will be remembered for is the poor sportsmanship and tears. Europe moaned like hell when they were made to play a chip again years ago, but when they have the chance to show they are bigger than that, they blow it. Technically they were in the right, but they also could still have conceded after the event.

Well played to the Americans, especially Alison Lee, and Europe got what they deserved in my opinion. If we had halved or won the match by a point the poor sportsmanship would have rumbled on for ever. 

Golf from both sides was brilliant, birdies galore, but that will not get reported as much as a 'not conceded putt'. Great advert for the game.

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The issue I have is - the girl was warned twice already by her opposition in previous matches - so the Europeans had already allowed her twice to pick the ball without a concession - so she already knew that they were ensuring that any conceded putts where done in a clear manner ( as confirmed by the European players ) - even her PP went to warn her - so why did she once again pick up the ball despite the previous warnings. 

The problem is she claimed she heard a concession - both the Europeans said they didn't concede - so it wasn't the walking away that made her pick up - she said she heard a concession.


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## bladeplayer (Sep 20, 2015)

Not fully up to speed so nobody jump down my neck here ,one of the people I follow on twitter said this is what the discussion /argument was about yesterday .. 

Was this the 2nd r 3ed time it happened over the week ? 

Personally it doesn't bother me who won.. BUT if I was playing in a match,  even a club knock out,  unless you TOLD me , that's ok , pick it up etc , I wouldn't take it upon myself to pick up my ball,  id have no right to .. 

IF she didn't say any of these things to indicate its conceded , she had no right to pick it up .. 

Should sportsmanship have come into it ? possibly 

but you still don't have the right to take a concession that was not offered no matter what you think is  going on


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## jp5 (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The issue I have is - the girl was warned twice already by her opposition in previous matches - so the Europeans had already allowed her twice to pick the ball without a concession - so she already knew that they were ensuring that any conceded putts where done in a clear manner ( as confirmed by the European players ) - even her PP went to warn her - so why did she once again pick up the ball despite the previous warnings. 

The problem is she claimed she heard a concession - both the Europeans said they didn't concede - so it wasn't the walking away that made her pick up - she said she heard a concession.
		
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Possibly saying that as no-one can dispute it! Wouldn't surprise me if she saw the Europeans marching off to the next tee and assumed they must have conceded it.

Would have helped if the Europeans had stayed within 50 yards while she was finishing the hole. More polite as well.


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## Midnight (Sep 20, 2015)

I have to say i have fully enjoyed watching  this Solheim cup. Some cracking golf played by both sides.  Bit of controversy thrown in that all of us will never  agree on.

But overall a fantastic  few days of golf.


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## bladeplayer (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The issue I have is - the girl was warned twice already by her opposition in previous matches - so the Europeans had already allowed her twice to pick the ball without a concession - so she already knew that they were ensuring that any conceded putts where done in a clear manner ( as confirmed by the European players ) - even her PP went to warn her - so why did she once again pick up the ball despite the previous warnings. 

The problem is she claimed she heard a concession - both the Europeans said they didn't concede - so it wasn't the walking away that made her pick up - she said she heard a concession.
		
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This is what I heard that's why  I would be calling her on it the 3rd time . 3 times is taking liberties


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## jp5 (Sep 20, 2015)

bladeplayer said:



			Not fully up to speed so nobody jump down my neck here ,one of the people I follow on twitter said this is what the discussion /argument was about yesterday .. 

Was this the 2nd r 3ed time it happened over the week ? 

Personally it doesn't bother me who won.. BUT if I was playing in a match,  even a club knock out,  unless you TOLD me , that's ok , pick it up etc , I wouldn't take it upon myself to pick up my ball,  id have no right to .. 

IF she didn't say any of these things to indicate its conceded , she had no right to pick it up .. 

Should sportsmanship have come into it ? possibly 

but you still don't have the right to take a concession that was not offered no matter what you think is  going on
		
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Easy to say, but if your opponent is halfway off to the next hole it would be thought they're happy for you to come with them.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

jp5 said:



			Easy to say, but if your opponent is halfway off to the next hole it would be thought they're happy for you to come with them.
		
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Hull was still on the green when the girl picked up the marker 

The Europeans clarified that putts would be given clearly and she had been warned twice - to make sure she should have sought clarification before picking it up 

Or she did hear a concession


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## bladeplayer (Sep 20, 2015)

jp5 said:



			Easy to say, but if your opponent is halfway off to the next hole it would be thought they're happy for you to come with them.
		
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Was she tho ? (genuinely don't know) most say she was walking to her partners position ..


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 20, 2015)

I've played matchplay golf at various levels for 40 years. If I hit a putt 18 inches past the hole and my opponent turned round and started walking off the green, I would take that as a concession.

Thinking back to the famous Nicklaus/Jacklin concession in the Ryder Cup and the sportsmanship showed then, I wonder what Big Jack thinks about this incident.

As already stated, golf is the loser this week


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## adam6177 (Sep 20, 2015)

bladeplayer said:



			Was she tho ? (genuinely don't know) most say she was walking to her partners position ..
		
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No that's tripe. If you watch the video there is no way on earth she was simply walking to her partners position... she was off to the next tee.


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## garyinderry (Sep 20, 2015)

Hull and her caddy took off as if to say that is good.   had she wanted her to finish off she should have stood her ground.  Running about like that gives the girl no opportunity to tap in without distraction. 

Swingsitlikehogan would have had a fit over this.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

adam6177 said:



			No that's tripe. If you watch the video there is no way on earth she was simply walking to her partners position... she was off to the next tee.
		
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The players states that she wasn't walking to the next tee but to her PP and that's exactly the line she was taking


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## jp5 (Sep 20, 2015)

bladeplayer said:



			Was she tho ? (genuinely don't know) most say she was walking to her partners position ..
		
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Watched her first putt from the side of the green. Started walking off, with back to the hole, when it trundled by. If going to see another putt, then stay and watch! How do you know if they hole the next one otherwise?!


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

jp5 said:



			Watched her first putt from the side of the green. Started walking off, with back to the hole, when it trundled by. If going to see another putt, then stay and watch! How do you know if they hole the next one otherwise?!
		
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Because she has a partner who was watching and it was Peterson who called it not Hull who said she was walking towards Peterson.


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## bladeplayer (Sep 20, 2015)

adam6177 said:



			No that's tripe. If you watch the video there is no way on earth she was simply walking to her partners position... she was off to the next tee.
		
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Havent seen that yet so will have to wait n see


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## adam6177 (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The players states that she wasn't walking to the next tee but to her PP
		
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Do you honestly believe her? Honestly.


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## richart (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hull was still on the green when the girl picked up the marker 

The Europeans clarified that putts would be given clearly and she had been warned twice - to make sure she should have sought clarification before picking it up 

Or she did hear a concession
		
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She was marching off the green, so if Lee had actually putted out she would have either had to wait for her to stop or carry on and hope she wasn't put off. Sorry if you haven't conceded a putt you should stay where you are. Marching off the green when a putt has not been conceded, and making the opponent wait to putt out is poor etiquette.

Hull and Pettersen will always be remembered for this incident. Pettersen accoring to Laura Davies will not have a problem, but I think Hull will. It could so easily been avoided, and both Europeans would have come out as good sports.

It will not do Alison Lee's career any harm though.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

adam6177 said:



			Do you honestly believe her? Honestly.
		
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I have no reason not too - she is a 19 year old girl who has never had any issues on the golf course so I see no reason why she would lie. 

She ended up right next to Peterson who called the penalty


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## adam6177 (Sep 20, 2015)

bladeplayer said:



			Was she tho ? 


Liverpoolphil said:



			I have no reason not too - she is a 19 year old girl who has never had any issues on the golf course so I see no reason why she would lie. 

She ended up right next to Peterson who called the penalty
		
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Ha ha whatever Phil. They were right out of order and I'm embarrassed for them.
		
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## jp5 (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because she has a partner who was watching and it was Peterson who called it not Hull who said she was walking towards Peterson.
		
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If it was Peterson calling the shots then she should have been in there, not halfway to the next tee.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

richart said:



			She was marching off the green, so if Lee had actually putted out she would have either had to wait for her to stop or carry on and hope she wasn't put off. Sorry if you haven't conceded a putt you should stay where you are. Marching off the green when a putt has not been conceded, and making the opponent wait to putt out is poor etiquette.

Hull and Pettersen will always be remembered for this incident. Pettersen accoring to Laura Davies will not have a problem, but I think Hull will. It could so easily been avoided, and both Europeans would have come out as good sports.

It will not do Alison Lee's career any harm though.
		
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If it's a singles match then I can see the issue in regards Hull moving but she had a PP who was also watching what was happening - now Peterson must have seen her pick up the ball - remembering that she had been warned twice and called th penalty. Hull and Peterson weren't stood next to each and Hull said she was walking towards Peterson. Hull would have been stood next to Peterson whilst Lee putted out.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

jp5 said:



			If it was Peterson calling the shots then she should have been in there, not halfway to the next tee.
		
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Peterson wasn't halfway to the next tee - she was on the edge of the green when the ball was picked up and Hull was still on the green


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## jp5 (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Peterson wasn't halfway to the next tee - she was on the edge of the green when the ball was picked up and Hull was still on the green
		
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It was deceptive from Pettersen to be needlessly that far from the situation then call the penalty, and not surprised to see a number of big name golfers criticise her for it.

Not the spirit the game should be played in.


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## richart (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If it's a singles match then I can see the issue in regards Hull moving but she had a PP who was also watching what was happening - now Peterson must have seen her pick up the ball - remembering that she had been warned twice and called th penalty. Hull and Peterson weren't stood next to each and Hull said she was walking towards Peterson. Hull would have been stood next to Peterson whilst Lee putted out.
		
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 Hull and her caddie both turned their backs on Lee, and walked off to the edge of the green. If she had wanted to tap it in she would have had to wait for them. That is poor and I don't think she did that on any putt over the three days. 

Sorry to me it is bad sportsmanship. I personally think if Lee had started to mark her ball, the Europeans would have then said pick it up.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

jp5 said:



			It was deceptive from Pettersen to be needlessly that far from the situation then call the penalty, and not surprised to see a number of big name golfers criticise her for it.

Not the spirit the game should be played in.
		
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Just watched it again - Hull and Petersons caddy started moving , Hulls caddy stayed there to watch and then put his hands up when she picked the ball up 

But the commentator says the ref called th hole then Lee picked the ball up - which looked like shocked Peterson etc so they said they didn't give the putt so the ref called it a win to Europe - has the ref caused the issue ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

richart said:



			Hull and her caddie both turned their backs on Lee, and walked off to the edge of the green. If she had wanted to tap it in she would have had to wait for them. That is poor and I don't think she did that on any putt over the three days. 

Sorry to me it is bad sportsmanship. I personally think if Lee had started to mark her ball, the Europeans would have then said pick it up.
		
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Hulls caddy didn't move away 

It was Petersons caddy moving to her - Peterson appears to be watching the whole time


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## garyinderry (Sep 20, 2015)

Hull and both caddies instantly start walking away.  One lingers back as hull completely turns her back.   


If you want to see it in there is no way in hell you act like that. 


Awful etiquette.


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## jp5 (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just watched it again - Hull and Petersons caddy started moving , Hulls caddy stayed there to watch and then put his hands up when she picked the ball up 

But the commentator says the ref called th hole then Lee picked the ball up - which looked like shocked Peterson etc so they said they didn't give the putt so the ref called it a win to Europe - has the ref caused the issue ?
		
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Which is why with that much confusion around, the right thing to do would have been concede the half - even if technically the American had lost the hole on picking the ball up.

Still would have won it down the last, wouldn't have given the Americans any extra incentive in the singles.


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## bladeplayer (Sep 20, 2015)

garyinderry said:



			Hull and both caddies instantly start walking away.  One lingers back as hull completely turns her back.   


If you want to see it in there is no way in hell you act like that. 


Awful etiquette.
		
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Gar I hear what ur saying mate & agree whole heartedly ,all the bad etiquette in the world from an opp doesn't mean you can break a rule tho 

Now as I said earlier I haven't seen it yet so im commenting on other peoples comments (not a great idea I know)


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

jp5 said:



			Which is why with that much confusion around, the right thing to do would have been concede the half - even if technically the American had lost the hole on picking the ball up.

Still would have won it down the last, wouldn't have given the Americans any extra incentive in the singles.
		
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I think what makes the issue hard for the Europeans to concede apart from the situation is the player already been warned about it previously twice - how many times did she need to be warned before they finally pulled up on it or do they continue to allow it to happen ? 

If she hadn't been warned previously then possibly Peterson would have ignored it ?


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## richart (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hulls caddy didn't move away 

It was Petersons caddy moving to her - Peterson appears to be watching the whole time
		
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 So one player, and the other players caddy both march off, instead of standing still and waiting for Lee to putt out. Sorry that is even worse.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

bladeplayer said:



			Gar I hear what ur saying mate & agree whole heartedly ,all the bad etiquette in the world from an opp doesn't mean you can break a rule tho 

Now as I said earlier I haven't seen it yet so im commenting on other peoples comments (not a great idea I know)
		
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http://www.golfchannel.com/media/co...witter-gc-v-controversy-17-solheim-cup-092015


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 20, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/sep/20/solheim-cup-2015-players-tears-row
Hull just seems to have gone along with Peterson.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

richart said:



			So one player, and the other players caddy both march off, instead of standing still and waiting for Lee to putt out. Sorry that is even worse.
		
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Yes that's an etiquette issue which is being seen a number of times - just watch the US Amatuer - unless as they said they were moving away and expected her to mark it and line it up as it was over a foot away and at a crucial stage in the match. 

I have done it myself - moved to the edge of the green as someone putts out in matchplay.


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## jp5 (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think what makes the issue hard for the Europeans to concede apart from the situation is the player already been warned about it previously twice - how many times did she need to be warned before they finally pulled up on it or do they continue to allow it to happen ? 

If she hadn't been warned previously then possibly Peterson would have ignored it ?
		
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I think it's fine to hold someone to the letter of the law, but to be within a reasonable distance when doing so.

For me, Pettersen should have been where Hull was if she was going to call the penalty. (and not walk away after the first putt)


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## garyinderry (Sep 20, 2015)

bladeplayer said:



			Gar I hear what ur saying mate & agree whole heartedly ,all the bad etiquette in the world from an opp doesn't mean you can break a rule tho 

Now as I said earlier I haven't seen it yet so im commenting on other peoples comments (not a great idea I know)
		
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I have watched it a handful of times.  I can completely see why she picked up.    if she has been picking up then I would be standing right there to make sure she putts. 


It can all be sorted out by waiting for the ref to give you permission once a putt has been conceded.   it shouldn't need or come to that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

jp5 said:



			I think it's fine to hold someone to the letter of the law, but to be within a reasonable distance when doing so.

For me, Pettersen should have been where Hull was if she was going to call the penalty. (and not walk away after the first putt)
		
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She called it as soon as the ref announced the result of the hole - she was stood there the whole time after she was not in the hole - she was still on the green. 

You can't use where Peterson is to judge if she can call the penalty or not

BTW I think this whole discussion and debate is great - good to see it happening without it getting out of hand etc


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## richart (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes that's an etiquette issue which is being seen a number of times - just watch the US Amatuer - unless as they said they were moving away and expected her to mark it and line it up as it was over a foot away and at a crucial stage in the match. 

I have done it myself - moved to the edge of the green as someone putts out in matchplay.
		
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 Hopefully not in the line of the person putting.

Do you think this is good for Charlie Hull ? It was obviously going to blow up, and I don't think she wanted anything to do with it. Laura Davies didn't seem surprised Pettersen was involved. I think she is regretting it already, and she seemed very low when playing the singles. She could be remembered for her sportsmanship, but instead she will always be remembered for an unsavoury incident. The media will not let it drop.


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## bladeplayer (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



http://www.golfchannel.com/media/co...witter-gc-v-controversy-17-solheim-cup-092015

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Thanks Phil :thup:

Oh that's is bad form on European team everyone even the ref & the fans saw the players actions as a concession ,

She was flying away to the next hole at speed , id be peeved if I was the Americans

Peterson being (enter word of choice)


I still say you should wait to be told but with the speed they took off , it seemed like a concession to me anyhow


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## richart (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			BTW I think this whole discussion and debate is great - good to see it happening without it getting out of hand etc
		
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Knob !


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

richart said:



			Hopefully not in the line of the person putting.

Do you think this is good for Charlie Hull ? It was obviously going to blow up, and I don't think she wanted anything to do with it. Laura Davies didn't seem surprised Pettersen was involved. I think she is regretting it already, and she seemed very low when playing the singles. She could be remembered for her sportsmanship, but instead she will always be remembered for an unsavoury incident. The media will not let it drop.
		
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Of course not in the line of the putt or when they are in the process of putting etc 

I don't think Hull has done anything wrong in the whole situation. I think she was very upset about it all because she is still just a teenager at the end of the day. 

Possible Peterson could have said "don't worry about it" but after being warned twice already ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

richart said:



			Knob !


















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Always one trouble maker


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## bozza (Sep 20, 2015)

Can someone clarify this for me. 

Since when did "sportsmanship" become the new rules of golf?


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## bladeplayer (Sep 20, 2015)

bozza said:



			Can someone clarify this for me. 

Since when did "sportsmanship" become the new rules of golf?
		
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Its not & I agreed til I saw the video , & I still say play to the rules , but I can see how the American player thought it was conceded


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## richart (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Of course not in the line of the putt or when they are in the process of putting etc 

I don't think Hull has done anything wrong in the whole situation. I think she was very upset about it all because she is still just a teenager at the end of the day. 

Possible Peterson could have said "don't worry about it" but after being warned twice already ?
		
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 Well Hull and Pettersens caddy would have been, if Lee had gone up and tried to putt out straight away.

Personally it is the lack of sportsmanship that gets me. By the letter of the law they were correct, but it leaves a bad taste. I have a feeling that Hull will regret it for some time. I am so glad that Alison Lee was not the cause of the USA losing the Cup. That would have been great for a 20 year old, in her first year as a pro.


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## upsidedown (Sep 20, 2015)

bladeplayer said:



			Its not & I agreed til I saw the video , & I still say play to the rules , but I can see how the American player thought it was conceded
		
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Totally agree, the way ( Hull and caddies ) stride off is a clear indication they considered the hole done.


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## bladeplayer (Sep 20, 2015)

richart said:



			Well Hull and Pettersens caddy would have been, if Lee had gone up and tried to putt out straight away.

Personally it is the lack of sportsmanship that gets me. By the letter of the law they were correct, but it leaves a bad taste. I have a feeling that Hull will regret it for some time. I am so glad that Alison Lee was not the cause of the USA losing the Cup. That would have been great for a 20 year old, in her first year as a pro.
		
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I agree but I think it was all down to Peterson , senior player & C Hull just stayed quiet , wont matter now USA won , be even bigger if that had decided the match


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 20, 2015)

bozza said:



			Can someone clarify this for me. 

Since when did "sportsmanship" become the new rules of golf?
		
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What are you saying?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

richart said:



			Well Hull and Pettersens caddy would have been, if Lee had gone up and tried to putt out straight away.

Personally it is the lack of sportsmanship that gets me. By the letter of the law they were correct, but it leaves a bad taste. I have a feeling that Hull will regret it for some time. I am so glad that Alison Lee was not the cause of the USA losing the Cup. That would have been great for a 20 year old, in her first year as a pro.
		
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Well Lee just walked up to her ball and picked up straight away - not look towards the players and no sign that she was going to putt out or Mark etc 

The sportsmanship is an area that is hard to control and find the level - you could say that Lee picking the ball up without clarification and then being allowed to do so is good sportsmanship - but then when do you draw the line between the rules and the sportsmanship ? Maybe she was very inexperienced in matchplay etiquette etc - they said even her PP went to say something to her ?


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## garyinderry (Sep 20, 2015)

The onus is on the closest player to make the call.  Yes, she doesn't have to say put it in but by turning her back on the play it signifies that she thinks it is good. 

Crossed wires but hull should have stood her ground if she believed she wanted it holed.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

upsidedown said:



			Totally agree, the way ( Hull and caddies ) stride off is a clear indication they considered the hole done.
		
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The only clear indication surely is being told it's ok or you FC picking the ball up for you ?


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

upsidedown said:



			Totally agree, the way ( Hull and caddies ) stride off is a clear indication they considered the hole done.
		
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.
Will I add you to the list of people calling Hull a liar?


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## jp5 (Sep 20, 2015)

garyinderry said:



			The onus is on the closest player to make the call.  Yes, she doesn't have to say put it in but by turning her back on the play it signifies that she thinks it is good. 

*Crossed wires but hull should have stood her ground if she believed she wanted it holed.*

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:thup:

Not Hull's fault in the slightest, but her walking off gave the indication the putt was good.


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## bozza (Sep 20, 2015)

bladeplayer said:



			Its not & I agreed til I saw the video , & I still say play to the rules , but I can see how the American player thought it was conceded
		
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She "assumed" you can't assume anything, even in a friendly knock if my pp walked away from the green I'd ask if it was given before picking up/putting it. 

May not be right of him to turn his back and walk away from the green but that's his choice and there's no rule against it. 

Has anyone considered Hull was walking to the direction of the tee to try speed things up a little as the games were seriously slow.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			.
Will I add you to the list of people calling Hull a liar?
		
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What do you intend to do with this list?


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## richart (Sep 20, 2015)

bladeplayer said:



			I agree but I think it was all down to Peterson , senior player & C Hull just stayed quiet , wont matter now USA won , be even bigger if that had decided the match
		
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 I fear that it will tarnish Hull's reputation. She didn't look happy afterwards, and if it had been singles I am sure she would have said the putt was fine. Pettersen has a reputation for playing hardball, and Laura Davies said it would be water off a ducks back to her.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Pin-seeker said:



			What do you intend to do with this list?
		
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Assume these people don't obey the rules of golf...


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## bozza (Sep 20, 2015)

drive4show said:



			What are you saying?
		
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That people seem to think that rules should be broken/bent out of sportsmanship/ etiquette. 

You do it once and where do you draw the line?


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## bladeplayer (Sep 20, 2015)

Pin-seeker said:



			What do you intend to do with this list?
		
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Check it twice to find out who's.............................


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## bladeplayer (Sep 20, 2015)

richart said:



			I fear that it will tarnish Hull's reputation. She didn't look happy afterwards, and if it had been singles I am sure she would have said the putt was fine. Pettersen has a reputation for playing hardball, and Laura Davies said it would be water off a ducks back to her.
		
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Yep once again I agree 100% with that aswel ..


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 20, 2015)

bozza said:



			That people seem to think that rules should be broken/bent out of sportsmanship/ etiquette. 

You do it once and where do you draw the line?
		
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I don't think anyone is suggesting it's OK to break the rules. Conceding putts and sportsmanship are part of matchplay.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I don't think anyone is suggesting it's OK to break the rules. Conceding putts and sportsmanship are part of matchplay.
		
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 Putt wasn't conceded. US player broke a rule. 

Cut and dry. Right?


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## bozza (Sep 20, 2015)

richart said:



			I fear that it will tarnish Hull's reputation. She didn't look happy afterwards, and if it had been singles I am sure she would have said the putt was fine. Pettersen has a reputation for playing hardball, and Laura Davies said it would be water off a ducks back to her.
		
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Playing hardball but by the rules, I can't see any problem with that.


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## bozza (Sep 20, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I don't think anyone is suggesting it's OK to break the rules. Conceding putts and sportsmanship are part of matchplay.
		
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It wasn't conceded though! 

The ref and all the players/caddies said they never heard anything to say it had been conceded. 

She messed up, simple as that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

richart said:



			I fear that it will tarnish Hull's reputation. She didn't look happy afterwards, and if it had been singles I am sure she would have said the putt was fine. Pettersen has a reputation for playing hardball, and Laura Davies said it would be water off a ducks back to her.
		
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Looking at some of the tweets she has had from US Players she is ok with them - the media seem to be focusing on Petterson right now.


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## bladeplayer (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			Putt wasn't conceded. US player broke a rule. 

Cut and dry. Right?
		
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Yep 100% 

BUT 

Have the manners /etiquette etc to stand still until your oppo finishes out ..


I was in the "letter of the rules "camp , til I saw the video  ..

I accept she may not have said anything , but she was away outa there, happy her opponent missed & delighted  with the half


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## Ethan (Sep 20, 2015)

We saw this in The Walker Cup, players walking off when their opponent had a putt that still mattered. Bad manners. The player should stay until the hole is decided.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

bladeplayer said:



			Yep 100% 

BUT 

Have the manners /etiquette etc to stand still until your oppo finishes out ..


I was in the "letter of the rules "camp , til I saw the video  ..

I accept she may not have said anything , but she was away outa there, happy her opponent missed & delighted  with the half
		
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So why is Pettersen taking the flak, not Hull??


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## 3565 (Sep 20, 2015)

Since when has a player walking away been a concession of a putt? 

If im 6" away and don't hear opponent(s) say it's a concession then I either mark or ask? If a player walks away I don't 'Assume' it's a concession. 

My eyes nothing wrong, just a rookie mistake from the Americans. 

But i have heard that the official could be at fault and a ruling which allows, that if players disagree on what was said (concession, none concession) He can get her to replace the ball and hole out, but he decided after interviewing the players decided enough evidence not to take that option.  

It don't matter now as they played better golf today.


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## Qwerty (Sep 20, 2015)

We can only assume based on actions not words what the players were thinking.

For what its worth.. I'm assuming Petterson was calling the Shots and the way Hull marched off she'd assumed Petterson would,Should, and did give Lee the putt.

It wasn't just Hull that was walking off the green, Lee has seen the exodus including Hull and takes it as a gimme. 

All the while Petterson is in the background looking on(IMO from an etiquette Point of view too far away) and despite everyone walking off the green decides not to give it, and let's be honest it was a tap in.

I know Rules are Rules but I don't see the point in winning if you have to stretch them to limit like that.   Kinda takes the edge off it for me. Its only a game and they're not exactly playing to put food on the table. Ugly!!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 20, 2015)

Qwerty said:



			We can only assume based on actions not words what the players were thinking.

For what its worth.. I'm assuming Petterson was calling the Shots and the way Hull marched off she'd assumed Petterson would,Should, and did give Lee the putt.

It wasn't just Hull that was walking off the green, Lee has seen the exodus including Hull and takes it as a gimme. 

All the while Petterson is in the background looking on(IMO from an etiquette Point of view too far away) and despite everyone walking off the green decides not to give it, and let's be honest it was a tap in.

I know Rules are Rules but I don't see the point in winning if you have to stretch them to limit like that.   Kinda takes the edge off it for me. Its only a game and they're not exactly playing to put food on the table. Ugly!!
		
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Well summed up, rules are rules but as you say, Ugly!


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 20, 2015)

Qwerty said:



			We can only assume based on actions not words what the players were thinking.

For what its worth.. I'm assuming Petterson was calling the Shots and the way Hull marched off she'd assumed Petterson would,Should, and did give Lee the putt.

It wasn't just Hull that was walking off the green, Lee has seen the exodus including Hull and takes it as a gimme. 

All the while Petterson is in the background looking on(IMO from an etiquette Point of view too far away) and despite everyone walking off the green decides not to give it, and let's be honest it was a tap in.

I know Rules are Rules but I don't see the point in winning if you have to stretch them to limit like that.   Kinda takes the edge off it for me. Its only a game and they're not exactly playing to put food on the table. Ugly!!
		
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Spot on.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 20, 2015)

Imo and watching the video replay Hull and caddy thought it was a consession,however the American could and probably should have checked first.

Don't the Americans get on your wick though all standing in a circle shouting U.S.A.

Should add a bit of spice though for the next one just like the Justin Leonard incident.


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## bladeplayer (Sep 20, 2015)

Qwerty said:



			We can only assume based on actions not words what the players were thinking.

For what its worth.. I'm assuming Petterson was calling the Shots and the way Hull marched off she'd assumed Petterson would,Should, and did give Lee the putt.

It wasn't just Hull that was walking off the green, Lee has seen the exodus including Hull and takes it as a gimme. 

All the while Petterson is in the background looking on(IMO from an etiquette Point of view too far away) and despite everyone walking off the green decides not to give it, and let's be honest it was a tap in.

I know Rules are Rules but I don't see the point in winning if you have to stretch them to limit like that.   Kinda takes the edge off it for me. Its only a game and they're not exactly playing to put food on the table. Ugly!!
		
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Thatl do nicely


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## bladeplayer (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			So why is Pettersen taking the flak, not Hull??
		
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IMO most think Hull was happy to concede (ie walking away) but Peterson then came in with the that wasn't conceded

that's just an opinion tho


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 20, 2015)

Superb retort from the US and clearly Inkster used it to fire the side up to claim a thrilling win. Shame if the event gets overshadowed by the incident but having seen it a number of times, the decision still appears correct as there was clearly no concession. I think there will be a piquant of tension on the first tee at the next match though regardless of the respective captains no doubt going on a huge PR mission between now and then


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## 6inchcup (Sep 20, 2015)

thought it summed the yanks up by the comment from vcapt "if that's what you have to do to win " never liked the yanks and dislike them even more now,bring on the RYDER cup.


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## bluewolf (Sep 20, 2015)

Qwerty said:



			We can only assume based on actions not words what the players were thinking.

For what its worth.. I'm assuming Petterson was calling the Shots and the way Hull marched off she'd assumed Petterson would,Should, and did give Lee the putt.

It wasn't just Hull that was walking off the green, Lee has seen the exodus including Hull and takes it as a gimme. 

All the while Petterson is in the background looking on(IMO from an etiquette Point of view too far away) and despite everyone walking off the green decides not to give it, and let's be honest it was a tap in.

I know Rules are Rules but I don't see the point in winning if you have to stretch them to limit like that.   Kinda takes the edge off it for me. Its only a game and they're not exactly playing to put food on the table. Ugly!!
		
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Well said Dave. Was playing at Reddish Vale today, and everyone I spoke to agreed it was terrible from Team Europe. Whilst I would never shout for a victory for team USA, you've got to be a bit concerned when you hand the moral high ground to the Yanks.


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## bozza (Sep 20, 2015)

Qwerty said:



			We can only assume based on actions not words what the players were thinking.

For what its worth.. I'm assuming Petterson was calling the Shots and the way Hull marched off she'd assumed Petterson would,Should, and did give Lee the putt.

It wasn't just Hull that was walking off the green, Lee has seen the exodus including Hull and takes it as a gimme. 

All the while Petterson is in the background looking on(IMO from an etiquette Point of view too far away) and despite everyone walking off the green decides not to give it, and let's be honest it was a tap in.

I know Rules are Rules but I don't see the point in winning if you have to stretch them to limit like that.   Kinda takes the edge off it for me. Its only a game and they're not exactly playing to put food on the table. Ugly!!
		
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Like I've said before, since when did sportsmanship/etiquette become the new rules of golf?

You forget to sign your card that costs you winning your club championship do you expect the rule to be ignored? 

No, you wouldn't.

It's harsh but you can't pick and choose when to apply the rules of golf, especially in such a big event.


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## upsidedown (Sep 20, 2015)

Qwerty said:



			We can only assume based on actions not words what the players were thinking.

For what its worth.. I'm assuming Petterson was calling the Shots and the way Hull marched off she'd assumed Petterson would,Should, and did give Lee the putt.

It wasn't just Hull that was walking off the green, Lee has seen the exodus including Hull and takes it as a gimme. 

All the while Petterson is in the background looking on(IMO from an etiquette Point of view too far away) and despite everyone walking off the green decides not to give it, and let's be honest it was a tap in.

I know Rules are Rules but I don't see the point in winning if you have to stretch them to limit like that.   Kinda takes the edge off it for me. Its only a game and they're not exactly playing to put food on the table. Ugly!!
		
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Excellent points well made


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## Norrin Radd (Sep 20, 2015)

anybody else think that the last time they saw a face like that of the yank captain it had a hook in it?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Good post Qwerty

Think at the end of the day we can only go by the spoken word of the players 

It certainly isn't a simple situation 

Possibly the ref should have been more involved as it appears he could have been more of a instigator in the whole incident


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## Crow (Sep 20, 2015)

I've read all the comments and have looked several times at the recording and my viewpoint has changed.

When I first looked at the video I thought "badly done" by Europe but after reading all the posts and looking several times at it here's my revised take. 

First off I think it important that Lee had been *warned more than once previously about picking up before a concession*, this would piss me off in a match and I might start to follow the rules to the letter.

Secondly, yes Charlie Hull started to walk away but *Lee didn't really look directly towards her to confirm the concession*, she might have caught the movement out of the corner of her eye but as many have said, she assumed, even Lincicome got this fact and tried to intervene but too late.

Thirdly, we do not see Petersen until after the main event so I can't say how close she was but she would appear to have been at the edge of the green, a perfectly adequate place to stand to watch the first putt. From her viewpoint Lee's second putt may have looked further than the reported 18 inches and she was perfectly justified in not conceding.


I do have one question that I don't know the answer to though and for me the sportsmanship thing rides on this. 
As I don't have Sky I haven't seen any more of the match than this one incident but was Pettersen taking the lead in concessions as the senior partner or were both Europeans giving putts? 

If Pettersen was taking the lead then I think Europe are absolutely justified in their actions in view of my third comment above.
If both were offering concessions then Lee was still in the wrong and it's down to the European team to act how they see fit and that's their call, USA have no comeback whatever Europe decide.


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## Crow (Sep 20, 2015)

This clip suggests a bit of sneakiness from Pettersen though as it appears that she started walking off after the first putt.
see at 4.15 in the interview with the ref.

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/recapping-solheim-cup-controversy/

Maybe I should change my mind again!


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## pokerjoke (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Good post Qwerty

Think at the end of the day we can only go by the spoken word of the players 

It certainly isn't a simple situation 

Possibly the ref should have been more involved as it appears he could have been more of a instigator in the whole incident
		
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Seems the ref was very clear of the situation.


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## wrighty1874 (Sep 20, 2015)

Well done USA.You got the best motivational speech ever without a word being uttered.I played  in a singles matchplay semi final on Friday and the opponent  drove from in front of the markers and he'd realised his mistake when he pulled the tee out.I told him not to worry about it,I wouldn't want to claim a hole like that. Yesterday in a pairs final I accidentally dropped the top of my iron on my ball causing it to oscillate.They told me to forget it as I never offered a stroke.Todays scenario has sickened me and for the first time I cheered the Americans on.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Crow said:



			I've read all the comments and have looked several times at the recording and my viewpoint has changed.

When I first looked at the video I thought "badly done" by Europe but after reading all the posts and looking several times at it here's my revised take. 

First off I think it important that Lee had been *warned more than once previously about picking up before a concession*, this would piss me off in a match and I might start to follow the rules to the letter.

Secondly, yes Charlie Hull started to walk away but *Lee didn't really look directly towards her to confirm the concession*, she might have caught the movement out of the corner of her eye but as many have said, she assumed, even Lincicome got this fact and tried to intervene but too late.

Thirdly, we do not see Petersen until after the main event so I can't say how close she was but she would appear to have been at the edge of the green, a perfectly adequate place to stand to watch the first putt. From her viewpoint Lee's second putt may have looked further than the reported 18 inches and she was perfectly justified in not conceding.


I do have one question that I don't know the answer to though and for me the sportsmanship thing rides on this. 
As I don't have Sky I haven't seen any more of the match than this one incident but was Pettersen taking the lead in concessions as the senior partner or were both Europeans giving putts? 

If Pettersen was taking the lead then I think Europe are absolutely justified in their actions in view of my third comment above.
If both were offering concessions then Lee was still in the wrong and it's down to the European team to act how they see fit and that's their call, USA have no comeback whatever Europe decide.
		
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I think you sum it up very well Nick and thats my exact viewpoint.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

pokerjoke said:



			Seems the ref was very clear of the situation.
		
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After speaking to all the players - its very possible that the ref called it a half and that then allowed Lee to pick up the ball ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 20, 2015)

wrighty1874 said:



			Well done USA.You got the best motivational speech ever without a word being uttered.I played  in a singles matchplay semi final on Friday and the opponent  drove from in front of the markers and he'd realised his mistake when he pulled the tee out.I told him not to worry about it,I wouldn't want to claim a hole like that. Yesterday in a pairs final I accidentally dropped the top of my iron on my ball causing it to oscillate.They told me to forget it as I never offered a stroke.Todays scenario has sickened me and for the first time I cheered the Americans on.
		
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Why would it sicken you? Seems an over reaction. The Solheim Cup has had controversy before. Remember the Sorenstam incident?. In fact here are five http://www.skysports.com/golf/news/29304/9967886/five-flashpoints-from It's a highly charged event and to be honest I was more upset that Lee had seemed to go for her marker before a definite concession on more than one occasion before this


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## Sweep (Sep 20, 2015)

I think that what has happened here is that everyone is completely focussed on the first putt to win the hole at a crucial point in the game. When it misses Hull is relieved to be level and walks away quite innocently as she must have thought a miss meant the hole was halved and not even thinking the Europeans might win the hole. You certainly wouldn't expect a 3 putt from the region of 12 feet at this level. I think the Americans probably were focussed on the first putt in the same way too and Lee ( wrongly) probably never thought about having to make the return. Only Pettersen was thinking otherwise.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

wrighty1874 said:



			Well done USA.You got the best motivational speech ever without a word being uttered.I played  in a singles matchplay semi final on Friday and the opponent  drove from in front of the markers and he'd realised his mistake when he pulled the tee out.I told him not to worry about it,I wouldn't want to claim a hole like that. Yesterday in a pairs final I accidentally dropped the top of my iron on my ball causing it to oscillate.They told me to forget it as I never offered a stroke.Todays scenario has sickened me and for the first time I cheered the Americans on.
		
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The difference is they are playing for something a bit higher profile and remember - twice the player was warned and each time the Europeans let the discretion go - where do you draw the line. As for sickening and cheering the Americans on ?!?


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## AmandaJR (Sep 20, 2015)

Having watched it again, Lee puts her hand to her visor which I can only assume is to remove the magnetic ball marker she has on it?? So at that moment she expected to mark it...not sure why she didn't as she doesn't seem to look at Hull or Pettersen.

I've changed from thinking Suzanne was out of order to thinking she'd simply had enough of an opponent's disregard of the rules despite being told. Her whole body language with hand gestures suggests "no, enough - our hole"!


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 20, 2015)

Sweep said:



			I think that what has happened here is that everyone is completely focussed on the first putt to win the hole at a crucial point in the game. When it misses Hull is relieved to be level and walks away quite innocently as she must have thought a miss meant the hole was halved and not even thinking the Europeans might win the hole. You certainly wouldn't expect a 3 putt from the region of 12 feet at this level. I think the Americans probably were focussed on the first putt in the same way too and Lee ( wrongly) probably never thought about having to make the return. Only Pettersen was thinking otherwise.
		
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I agree. It's never given until it's given and why not make Lee hole out at a crucial stage. Pettersen seemed the only one switched on to how it would impact the match


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

AmandaJR said:



			Having watched it again, Lee puts her hand to her visor which I can only assume is to remove the magnetic ball marker she has on it?? *So at that moment she expected to mark it...not sure why she didn't as she doesn't seem to look at Hull or Pettersen*.

I've changed from thinking Suzanne was out of order to thinking she'd simply had enough of an opponent's disregard of the rules despite being told. Her whole body language with hand gestures suggests "no, enough - our hole"!
		
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I think its because the ref called it a half or she heard someone say its good ? thats what she has said - nothing about the movement of Hull etc


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 20, 2015)

wrighty1874 said:



			Well done USA.You got the best motivational speech ever without a word being uttered.I played  in a singles matchplay semi final on Friday and the opponent  drove from in front of the markers and he'd realised his mistake when he pulled the tee out.I told him not to worry about it,I wouldn't want to claim a hole like that. Yesterday in a pairs final I accidentally dropped the top of my iron on my ball causing it to oscillate.They told me to forget it as I never offered a stroke.Todays scenario has sickened me and for the first time I cheered the Americans on.
		
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Forgetting the Solhiem Cup for a moment, I'm confused about your semi final, as much as I admire your sportsmanship, you can't tell him not to worry about it, you can't pick and choose which rules you implement and which you don't, why didn't you concede the next hole and give him a hole back if you felt that bad.


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## Dan2501 (Sep 20, 2015)

I don't get why she didn't at least ask if it was given? Not anything wrong with asking for clarification, and nothing was said to her, and Charley moving means very little. If nothing has been said, you don't pick it up. Simple.


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## wrighty1874 (Sep 20, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Why would it sicken you? Seems an over reaction. The Solheim Cup has had controversy before. Remember the Sorenstam incident?. In fact here are five http://www.skysports.com/golf/news/29304/9967886/five-flashpoints-from It's a highly charged event and to be honest I was more upset that Lee had seemed to go for her marker before a definite concession on more than one occasion before this
		
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I'm fiercely competitive and hate losing, but what I saw today was lower than a snakes belly.When America ordered Annexe to replay her shot I was delighted when Europe won to shove it right up them.


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## wrighty1874 (Sep 20, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Forgetting the Solhiem Cup for a moment, I'm confused about your semi final, as much as I admire your sportsmanship, you can't tell him not to worry about it, you can't pick and choose which rules you implement and which you don't, why didn't you concede the next hole and give him a hole back if you felt that bad.
		
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I never sad I felt bad about it.I told him not to worry.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 20, 2015)

wrighty1874 said:



			I never sad I felt bad about it.I told him not to worry.
		
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And replay the shot?


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

wrighty1874 said:



			Well done USA.You got the best motivational speech ever without a word being uttered.I played  in a singles matchplay semi final on Friday and the opponent  drove from in front of the markers and he'd realised his mistake when he pulled the tee out.I told him not to worry about it,I wouldn't want to claim a hole like that. Yesterday in a pairs final I accidentally dropped the top of my iron on my ball causing it to oscillate.They told me to forget it as I never offered a stroke.Todays scenario has sickened me and for the first time I cheered the Americans on.
		
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You should have made him rehit if it was a good drive. 

You committed no penalty if your ball only oscillated. 

The two events don't cancel each other out as only one was due a penalty.


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## JezzE (Sep 20, 2015)

wrighty1874 said:



			Well done USA.You got the best motivational speech ever without a word being uttered.I played  in a singles matchplay semi final on Friday and the opponent  drove from in front of the markers and he'd realised his mistake when he pulled the tee out.I told him not to worry about it,I wouldn't want to claim a hole like that. Yesterday in a pairs final I accidentally dropped the top of my iron on my ball causing it to oscillate.They told me to forget it as I never offered a stroke.Todays scenario has sickened me and for the first time I cheered the Americans on.
		
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FYI, you couldn't have claimed the hole in the first example as there is no penalty for playing outside the teeing ground in matchplay, although you could have asked him to replay the shot if you'd so desired


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## bladeplayer (Sep 20, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			And replay the shot?
		
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You don't have to in match play , its up to u .. different in strokes /stableford etc


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			Putt wasn't conceded. US player broke a rule. 

Cut and dry. Right?
		
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Clearly not otherwise the situation would never have arisen.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

drive4show said:



			Clearly not otherwise the situation would never have arisen.
		
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Nope sorry it was that cut and dry.


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## bladeplayer (Sep 20, 2015)

JezzE said:



			FYI, you couldn't have claimed the hole in the first example as there is no penalty for playing outside the teeing ground in matchplay, although you could have asked him to replay the shot if you'd so desired
		
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What did you make of it Jezz ?

Well within the rules as no concession but sometimes theres a right & wrong way to do things ..

Do you think it was called due to the fact she ha done it twice earlier & been warned


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## richart (Sep 20, 2015)

Had anyone else warmed Lee before during the Solheim Cup, or was it just Pettersen that warned her ? Most opponents are quick to concede a very short putt, but I have a feeling that Pettersen likes to take her time, and make the opponent wait. I think this is what Lee's partner warned her about. You shouldn't ask if a putt is ok, it is up to the opponent to say it is good.

Gamesmanship ? Seasoned pro certainly caught a rookie out. Didn't surprise me that Pettersen was involved. The look on Hull's face as they walked off after the hole had been given to them showed her feelings.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 20, 2015)

3565 said:



			Since when has a player walking away been a concession of a putt?
		
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So playing devils advocate..........

You have a short putt and your oppo walks off the green to the next tee without saying anything. You stand over the putt until he is out of sight then miss the putt. Putting the honesty issue aside, how does he know if you holed it? You could say you did and he would be none the wiser.

If my oppo turned round and walked away, I would (and have) taken that as a concession.


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## Hobbit (Sep 20, 2015)

drive4show said:



			Clearly not otherwise the situation would never have arisen.
		
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So lets all pick up the little knee tremblers and argue that it was/should be conceded.

If someone I was playing had previous for picking up before a concession I'd be pretty miffed, as per Pettersen. As for the (wounded) behaviour of the Americans... no sympathy. Good on Pettersen for standing her ground on this.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Why do people keep going down this "sportsmanship" angle?

The ONLY way to allow the US team a half was for Hull and Pettersen to lie to the ref and say they conceded. 

They didn't concede so the only other way to procede would be for Lee to replace her ball with a one shot penalty thus unable to half anyway. 

So are all these US apologists really saying that, in the interest of sportsmanship, europe should have lied?

Really?

That's your idea of fair play?!


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## bladeplayer (Sep 20, 2015)

The poacher said:



			anybody else think that the last time they saw a face like that of the yank captain it had a hook in it?
		
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Not sure even a mother could love it ha


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## quinn (Sep 20, 2015)

Look, it's simple, it was the Americans fault, if she hadn't knocked it 2ft past none of this wouldnt have happened,


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			Nope sorry it was that cut and dry.
		
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If the situation is that cut and dried, why all this controversy?


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## JezzE (Sep 20, 2015)

bladeplayer said:



			What did you make of it Jezz ?

Well within the rules as no concession but sometimes theres a right & wrong way to do things ..

Do you think it was called due to the fact she ha done it twice earlier & been warned
		
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Don't have Sky so have only seen the clips online a few times, and it's an unfortunate and pretty unsavoury incident however much you quote the letter of the law, as evidenced by top pros like Laura Davies condemning Pettersen.

There's no doubt that Hull is walking off in a fashion that suggests she believes the hole is done, on to the next tee. I have never played with anyone who walks off that purposefully after a hole-winning putt has been missed merely to stand further away to watch you tackle the next one. And yet, no concession was actually verbalised apparently...

Don't really know what to make of it to be honest, but certainly not good for golf, and not good for Europe's chances in the singles!

If I'd found out about it earlier, I would have put my life savings on Hull losing her singles given how upset she clearly was about an incident that some are saying wasn't even an incident...


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## pokerjoke (Sep 20, 2015)

wrighty1874 said:



			Well done USA.You got the best motivational speech ever without a word being uttered.I played  in a singles matchplay semi final on Friday and the opponent  drove from in front of the markers and he'd realised his mistake when he pulled the tee out.I told him not to worry about it,I wouldn't want to claim a hole like that. Yesterday in a pairs final I accidentally dropped the top of my iron on my ball causing it to oscillate.They told me to forget it as I never offered a stroke.Todays scenario has sickened me and for the first time I cheered the Americans on.
		
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More of an over reaction than the whole saga itself


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

drive4show said:



			So playing devils advocate..........

You have a short putt and your oppo walks off the green to the next tee without saying anything. You stand over the putt until he is out of sight then miss the putt. Putting the honesty issue aside, how does he know if you holed it? You could say you did and he would be none the wiser.

If my oppo turned round and walked away, I would (and have) taken that as a concession.
		
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Put it in the hole and then ask your FC to clarify in future any concessions 

You can only do your bit


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## bladeplayer (Sep 20, 2015)

JezzE said:



			Don't have Sky so have only seen the clips online a few times, and it's an unfortunate and pretty unsavoury incident however much you quote the letter of the law, as evidenced by top pros like Laura Davies condemning Pettersen.

There's no doubt that Hull is walking off in a fashion that suggests she believes the hole is done, on to the next tee. I have never played with anyone who walks off that purposefully after a hole-winning putt has been missed merely to stand further away to watch you tackle the next one. And yet, no concession was actually verbalised apparently...

Don't really know what to make of it to be honest, but certainly not good for golf, and not good for Europe's chances in the singles!

If I'd found out about it earlier, I would have put my life savings on Hull losing her singles given how upset she clearly was about an incident that some are saying wasn't even an incident...
		
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Yea I was in the , she broke the rules camp until I saw the way Hull & caddies took off .. spectators & all were away 

Mind you if Id been warned twice bout picking up without been told , id be marking until I was defo told to


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

bladeplayer said:



			Yea I was in the , she broke the rules camp until I saw the way Hull & caddies took off .. spectators & all were away 

*Mind you if Id been warned twice bout picking up without been told , id be marking until I was defo told to*

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If that hadn't of happened then I don't think Petterson would have made an issue of this one 

Is the one thing that IMO makes the actions of Peterson within the spirit etc


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## wrighty1874 (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			You should have made him rehit if it was a good drive. 

You committed no penalty if your ball only oscillated. 

The two events don't cancel each other out as only one was due a penalty.
		
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It's my choice and I wouldn't want to put him an a position of added pressure to replicate the shot. Golf is hard enough.


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## Norrin Radd (Sep 20, 2015)

It made me laugh that the commentators kept saying that the incident was bad for womens golf,well would the internet golf forums be full of it if it had just been an american win by one point ,i think not .it has put womens golf in the forefront of all golf and that cant hurt womens golf ,as they say there is no such thing as bad publicity.


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## richart (Sep 20, 2015)

The poacher said:



			It made me laugh that the commentators kept saying that the incident was bad for womens golf,well would the internet golf forums be full of it if it had just been an american win by one point ,i think not .it has put womens golf in the forefront of all golf and that cant hurt womens golf ,as they say there is no such thing as bad publicity.
		
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You reckon that non golfers will watch what happened, and think that is a game I must play? To me it is bad for a game where numbers participating are dropping. Not all publicity is good publicity in sport in my view.


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## AmandaJR (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If that hadn't of happened then I don't think Petterson would have made an issue of this one 

Is the one thing that IMO makes the actions of Peterson within the spirit etc
		
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Likewise. I can understand her frustration with Lee continually assuming concessions.


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## delc (Sep 20, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			So lets all pick up the little knee tremblers and argue that it was/should be conceded.

If someone I was playing had previous for picking up before a concession I'd be pretty miffed, as per Pettersen. As for the (wounded) behaviour of the Americans... no sympathy. Good on Pettersen for standing her ground on this.
		
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Probably a bad thing to do (by Pettersen), because it just fired the Americans up and made them more determined to win in the singles.  Our girls managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!  Hope they do better in 2 years time.  

P.S. Probably no worse than the Yanks making Anneka Sorenstam retake her holed chip shot a few years ago!


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## chrisd (Sep 20, 2015)

I didn't see it live but, in the clips I've seen  Hull and her caddie looked to me to be happy that the hole was over as they marched away and I just wonder if Petterson was deliberatey trying to catch her out having already warned her earlier? It seems like a bowler who stumps the batsman at the non strike end after warning him before! Not really a satisfactory way to win a hole for me


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## richart (Sep 20, 2015)

chrisd said:



			I didn't see it live but, in the clips I've seen  Hull and her caddie looked to me to be happy that the hole was over as they marched away and I just wonder if Petterson was deliberatey trying to catch her out having already warned her earlier? It seems like a bowler who stumps the batsman at the non strike end after warning him before! Not really a satisfactory way to win a hole for me
		
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 That was my thinking, though no proof as I didn't see her warned before. I have a feelng the putts she picked up my have been inches away, and there was some gamesmanship involved by Pettersen.:mmm:

I would obviously not say that to Pettersens face though.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 20, 2015)

drive4show said:



*I've played matchplay golf at various levels for 40 years. If I hit a putt 18 inches past the hole and my opponent turned round and started walking off the green, I would take that as a concession.*

Thinking back to the famous Nicklaus/Jacklin concession in the Ryder Cup and the sportsmanship showed then, I wonder what Big Jack thinks about this incident.

As already stated, golf is the loser this week  

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So have I - and I wouldn't - and manys the time I've had to ask for clarification if a putt was given or not as opponents head off to the edge of the green.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes that's an etiquette issue which is being seen a number of times - just watch the US Amatuer - unless as they said they were moving away and expected her to mark it and line it up as it was over a foot away and at a crucial stage in the match. 

I* have done it myself - moved to the edge of the green as someone putts out in matchplay.*

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Regularly - get myself right out of the way of my opponent.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 20, 2015)

And as it happens I don't think this incident will make one significant iota of a difference to new players starting or the way the game of golf is perceived by non-golfers.  To the latter group golf is a mysterious and curious game that is pretty impenetrable - and besides they wouldn't have been watching.  And I honestly doubt very much than many - if any at all - prospective golfers would be put off from starting the game because of this.  Again - until you actually play the game you don;t understand whether this matters or not.  It's just one of these things they know they'll have to learn - bit like the offside rule in rugby - and also in football these days.

I have no problems at all with Petterson and Hull calling the mistake made my Lee.


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## richart (Sep 20, 2015)

Just seen the after match press conference, and something seemed not right. Charley Hull says she was rushing off to Pettersen to discuss whether the putt should be given. Strange didn't see her do that before. Also strange that Pettersens caddy also rushed over, presumably to join the conversation ?  No wonder golf is so slow, if you have to have a meeting to discuss giving a putt.

Koch said the putt was too long to give. Well that means a hell of a lot of putts were given by mistake over the three days. My cat Monty could have holed that putt, though he may have chased the ball round the green for a few minutes first.

Annika Sorenstam didn't seem to have a problem with it, though she was screaming blue murder when she was forced to take a chip again in a previous Solheim Cup. She played out of turn, so within the rules the Americans asked her to chip again. A little hypocritical ?:mmm:

As for Pettersen herself, she came over as very hard-nosed. No sympathy, would do the same again etc. Laura Davies was right, water off a ducks back.

Oh well, should add a bit of spice to the 2017 match.:thup:


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## garyinderry (Sep 20, 2015)

As I said earlier.  Lots of crossed wires.

Us excuse was,  someone in the crowd said that's ok.  -  the crowd can't concede a putt

Hull is not beyond fault here.  She was feet away from the original putt. You do not march off without telling your opponent to finish up if it is tap in range and you actually want to see her hole put.  It simply isn't the done thing. 

If I honestly think someone might miss their next putt I will tell them to hole out and give them the courtesy of standing where I was while finish up.   I also have to get the flag.  

Imagine having the balls to ask someone to putt out then run off the next tee and let them put the flag in after. :rofl:


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 20, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			So have I - and I wouldn't - and manys the time I've had to ask for clarification if a putt was given or not as opponents head off to the edge of the green.
		
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Well I hope you made all the putts then.


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## richart (Sep 20, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Regularly - get myself right out of the way of my opponent.
		
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 but Hull didn't. She walked away, and would have been in Lee's line of putt if she had tried to putt straight out. Pettersens caddy was following her and would also have been in her eye line. I have never seen someone do that unless they have been cut short.

If you don't concede straight away, a player is fully entitled to putt straight out and shouldn't have to wait whilst golfers, caddies walk across their through line. Basic etiquette.


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## 3565 (Sep 20, 2015)

It beggars belief that some on here think that if an opponent who walks away it can be classed as conceding a putt?.... 
Do they also think that someone saying I'll hit another is classed as taking a provisional?......

if you don't hear words of a concession then it's simple you don't pick up! Or if your unsure you ask, you don't presume! She made the mistake she should put her hands up and own it, Petterson did nothing wrong in my eyes and neither was it unsportmanship, as matchplay has an air of sportsmanship around the format. 

Saw Brandell Chamblee and David Duvall on Golf Central taking about it and they Talked a lot of sense about the whole thing and said its a rookies mistake and you don't pick up unless you hear the words from the opponent.


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## Robobum (Sep 21, 2015)

You've never just put the flag in and gone to the next tee? No words, just very grateful that you've escaped with a half?

Or do you make an announcement to conclude every hole?


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## lobthewedge (Sep 21, 2015)

It's the 17th hole of a pivotal match, you're playing a rookie that hasn't scored a point and has just knocked it 2 foot by.  She looks a bit nervy and knows the golfing world is watching her. Who on here would like to see it in?

Lee was entirely in the wrong and deserved to lose the hole. She is a pro and should know never to assume a putt has been given, even if your opponent has left the green.  If in doubt, knock it in and move on.  Peterson was absolutely right in what she did, just a shame the media seem to be going after her.

Well done to the Americans though, great viewing and what a comeback.


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## LIG (Sep 21, 2015)

Having seen the vid (one angle only) - Pettersen is not in shot at all  until after Lee picks up her ball and it appears conceivable that Hull  was moving to where Pettersen was standing (to confer?). It would be  normal for Petersen's caddy to go over to his player at any opportunity  so no issue with him moving either; and notice that Hull's caddy makes no  movement whatsoever. 
I notice that Lee doesn't look for confirmation and assumes it's conceded. Whoever said the Europeans were heading to the next tee must need their eyes tested 'cos they're still on the edge of the green when they come back into shot.



Liverpoolphil said:



			The only clear indication surely is being told it's ok or you FC picking the ball up for you ?
		
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I agree with the sentiment of LP's post.  Thus I would hazard to suggest that anyone who picks their ball up after assuming it's conceded is displaying an astonishing arrogance and/or disrespect to their opponent.     In a match, I wouldn't dream of picking up until CLEARLY conceded  - even the one inch putts I usually have coming back. )  



[On a separate issue - I find I may have been inadvertently displaying a lack of sportmaship/etiquette when moving position between putts of an oppo or FC!!!   ]


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## 3565 (Sep 21, 2015)

We are talking about what happened in the fact that Hull walked off after the putt, that is NOT a sign of concession. You can not take it for granted that a putt will be conceded no matter how far away it is, you need clarification from your opponent if your putt is good? Now a player walking with the flag and put it into the hole can be classed as conceded, but is it? Once a player announces that a putt is good or concede they can't retract it after. A player putting a pin back in the hole but then change their mind and pull it out straight away and not say anything, I'm not sure? 

Some one on here will probably put me right? 

But yes I will always say to my opponent if it's good, or pick it up, but walking away from the hole and you taking it as a concession.......... No.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

Robobum said:



*You've never just put the flag in* and gone to the next tee? No words, just very grateful that you've escaped with a half?

Or do you make an announcement to conclude every hole?
		
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Thats a clear indication the hole is over - i normally follow that by hitting the players ball towards them or picking it up.


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## Robobum (Sep 21, 2015)

That is THE most purposeful walk ever to confer if that's what anyone thinks Charlie Hull has done. She is off to the next tee. 

She is escaping any flak because she's a young girl/ breath of fresh air/ wouldn't harm a fly etc..........those saying that Lee is a pro and should know better are absolutely right. But they should apply that to Hull also..........she had assumed the ball was dead and should have said so and, as Inkster said.....you don't do that to your peers.


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## Smiffy (Sep 21, 2015)

Robobum said:



			That is THE most purposeful walk ever to confer if that's what anyone thinks Charlie Hull has done. She is off to the next tee. .....you don't do that to your peers.
		
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Is the correct answer.
Yes, the Yank was wrong in picking the ball up, I agree. And yes Phil, she was warned a couple of times before, you have mentioned it at least a dozen times or more.
But Hull was bang out of order.
Her body language throughout the whole debacle (from beginning to end) tells me she knows she was in the wrong.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

Robobum said:



			That is THE most purposeful walk ever to confer if that's what anyone thinks Charlie Hull has done. She is off to the next tee. 

She is escaping any flak because she's a young girl/ breath of fresh air/ wouldn't harm a fly etc..........those saying that Lee is a pro and should know better are absolutely right. But they should apply that to Hull also..........she had assumed the ball was dead and should have said so and, as Inkster said.....you don't do that to your peers.
		
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Hulls caddy stayed put

Hull said she was walking to Pettersen not to the tee - we have to take that at face value because anything else is speculation 

Lee said that she heard a concession and she wasn't looking at Hull or even looked up to confirm any concession


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			Is the correct answer.
Yes, the Yank was wrong in picking the ball up, I agree. And yes Phil, she was warned a couple of times before, you have mentioned it at least a dozen times or more.
But Hull was bang out of order.
Her body language throughout the whole debacle (from beginning to end) tells me she knows she was in the wrong.
		
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You can't judge by the body language - Lee's PP was also moving to warn her. Lee didn't even look at Hull and picked the ball up because she heard a concession

How can Hull be bang out of order because she is moving to speak to her PP along with her PP caddy - whilst her own caddy stays where he is


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## Slab (Sep 21, 2015)

Managed to watch a few hours on Friday/Saturday and overall it was pretty good viewing despite some pretty horrendous slow play 

Used the French variant of the Golf Channel that I get on my tv and good that it was advert free but only in French commentary

Was playing yesterday so missed the controversy and the singles. Caught up with the highlights and news this morning and my take on it is:


Hull wouldâ€™ve given it if she was in a singles match, her interest in the hole was over after the putt was missed (whether she should have given a putt in terms of its importance is another matter) but she either bottled making the call or bottled in her discussions with Pettersen  
Pettersen was rightly miffed at the multiple instances of early pick up and ignored warnings and was right to escalate matters on this occasion but shouldâ€™ve been clearer to Hull about her intentions such that Hull wouldnâ€™t have reacted the way she did in the seconds following the putt, not good putting the rookie in that position
Lee didnâ€™t learn from her earlier warnings but probably has now and doubt sheâ€™ll make that error again. And it was an error of that thereâ€™s no doubt 


Although the main fault lies with Koch as Europe captain. She shouldâ€™ve been the one to take better control and management of the situation such that it didnâ€™t unduly affect the players on either team. Pettersen wouldâ€™ve still made her point to Lee, Lee finally sees the error of her ways. Hull learns more about her actions as a full partner (even non verbal ones)

That aside Iâ€™ll think itâ€™ll add some spice to the next events (and I include the next Ryder cup in that)


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## Smiffy (Sep 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How can Hull be bang out of order because she is moving to speak to her PP along with her PP caddy - whilst her own caddy stays where he is
		
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Phil. It doesn't matter if her own caddy stayed there doing handstands or body popping.
Hull moved away in such a manner as to indicate she was conceding the putt.
She is saying that she walked away to speak to her PP.
She had then had time to think about her actions.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			Phil. It doesn't matter if her own caddy stayed there doing handstands or body popping.
Hull moved away in such a manner as to indicate she was conceding the putt.
She is saying that she walked away to speak to her PP.
She had then had time to think about her actions.
		
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But Lee didn't think the putt was conceded because of the actions of Hull - she wasn't looking at Hull - she picked the ball up because she believed she had heard a concession - what Hull was doing wasnt the reason for Lee to pick up the ball. 

Both Europeans were still on the green when the ball was picked and neither have verbal or confirmed visual indication that the putt was given. A ref was there and when speaking to the players confirmed that no concession was given.

So is Lee lying about hearing a concession ?

If Hull lying about going to see Pettersen ?


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## garyinderry (Sep 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But Lee didn't think the putt was conceded because of the actions of Hull - she wasn't looking at Hull - she picked the ball up because she believed she had heard a concession - what Hull was doing wasnt the reason for Lee to pick up the ball. 

Both Europeans were still on the green when the ball was picked and neither have verbal or confirmed visual indication that the putt was given. A ref was there and when speaking to the players confirmed that no concession was given.

So is Lee lying about hearing a concession ?

If Hull lying about going to see Pettersen ?
		
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Why would you walk 50feet to ask your partner if she would like to see it in.  What a complete waste of time and effort.   I firmly believe she hadn't that intention at all.  She was hanging to go as lee stood over her putt.  

Her tears and arms folded during the media questioning reeks of guilt.   deflecting towards the rules are rules is bullwhip lets get this story straight girls bullcrap imo.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

garyinderry said:



			Why would you walk 50feet to ask your partner if she would like to see it in.  What a complete waste of time and effort.   I firmly believe she hadn't that intention at all.  She was hanging to go as lee stood over her putt.  

Her tears and arms folded during the media questioning reeks of guilt.   deflecting towards the rules are rules is bullwhip lets get this story straight girls bullcrap imo.
		
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Again no verbal concession was given by the Europeans 

And you can only go by what the girls have said as opposed to judging intentions


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## garyinderry (Sep 21, 2015)

How long can you confer if you would like the someone to hole out. 

Making someone wait any length of time can be see as gamesmanship or breach of etiquette. 


Granted nothing as to be given but 1.5 feet seems to be well within the pro gimmy range.


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## Slab (Sep 21, 2015)

garyinderry said:



			How long can you confer if you would like the someone to hole out. 

Making someone wait any length of time can be see as gamesmanship or breach of etiquette. 


Granted nothing as to be given but 1.5 feet seems to be well within the pro gimmy range.
		
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And if conferring was really the intent i'm not sure what Hull would have said to Pettersen anyway because she has no idea of the length of the putt that remained. 

The coverage shows that Hull is offski (towards next tee/Pettersen) once the ball passes the hole and before Lee's ball stops and she doesn't look back


edit: I guess that's harsh saying she has no idea, as a pro she'll clearly have some idea how far past its going to go. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we're supposed to believe she's taken the decision to confer with Pettersen about a gimmie and moving towards her while the ball is still in motion which just seems weird


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## Hacker Khan (Sep 21, 2015)

Didn't see much of it this weekend but noticed that on both mornings they had to finish games off the next morning.  Was that due to the weather not allowing a full days play, or was it just that they were slow?


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## Slab (Sep 21, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Didn't see much of it this weekend but noticed that on both mornings they had to finish games off the next morning.  Was that due to the weather not allowing a full days play, or was it just that they were slow?
		
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While it wasn't exactly gorgeous sunny weather giving max daylight, it was very very slow play that's been reported as losing the light


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## Maninblack4612 (Sep 21, 2015)

Depends exactly what was said on the two occasions it was mentioned previously. If,  for example,  on the second occasion Petterson said "Next time you do that we'll claim the hole" can the USA have any complaint at all?


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 21, 2015)

Suppose you have a 20 foot putt for a half and your opponent walks off the green and goes to the next tee. Putt conceded or just plain rude?


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## Smiffy (Sep 21, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Suppose you have a 20 foot putt for a half and your opponent walks off the green and goes to the next tee. Putt conceded or just plain rude?
		
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Plain rude. And I wouldn't have a 20 foot putt left because I'd pick my ball up and throw it at their head. Really hard.
Okay I'd lose the hole (technically) but that would be more than compensated for the pleasure I'd get.


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## bluewolf (Sep 21, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Suppose you have a 20 foot putt for a half and your opponent walks off the green and goes to the next tee. Putt conceded or just plain rude?
		
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Incredibly rude and would result in a shout from me that if he didn't come back I'd take it as a concession. But the putt in question wasn't 20ft. It was less than 2ft and less than several putts that had already been conceded..

Anyway, it was within the rules and the Yanks should have taken it a bit more gracefully. However, certain individuals will probably be a bit disappointed with how they behaved yesterday..


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## bladeplayer (Sep 21, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Suppose you have a 20 foot putt for a half and your opponent walks off the green and goes to the next tee. Putt conceded or just plain rude?
		
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Would you in all seriousness expect to give or  be given a 20' putt ?

It all boils down to this tho 
The putt was not conceded verbally so Lee had no right to pick it up .. Rules are Rules ..

Hulls actions of belting away , she didn't stride or stroll away she belted away gave every1 even the crowd & the ref the belief it was conceded,so she needs to look at her part in it aswell , 

She said she was going to Petterson ok we have no choice but to believe her , we do have the right to doubt her tho , 

 IMO & only IMO she was conceding then the older more experienced pro wasnt , so when she picked up id say she asked Hull did you give that & then it began ..


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 21, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			Incredibly rude and would result in a shout from me that if he didn't come back I'd take it as a concession. *But the putt in question wasn't 20ft. It was less than 2ft and less than several putts that had already been conceded..*

Anyway, it was within the rules and the Yanks should have taken it a bit more gracefully. However, certain individuals will probably be a bit disappointed with how they behaved yesterday..
		
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I know. I've only seen it briefly on the news as I've been away all weekend but the 20 foot putt scenario was a real incident that someone told me about while we discussed this. My take was that it was completely ignorant but not a concession. Same applies in the Hull/Pettersen case. Rude and unnecessary but if nothing was said you've got no choice other than to tap it in.

Length of previous concessions isn't particularly relevant, that's only one factor you consider before conceding a putt.

Anyway, agree with you, nobody has come out of this looking good. A complete lack of grace on both sides.


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## JamesR (Sep 21, 2015)

What I don't understand is why they didn't just replace the ball and then make her putt out.

Unless the rules have changed (or I was misinformed), if you think you've been given a putt, but it turned out you weren't, you should replace at as close to the correct position as is possible (and with TV that is pretty close) and putt out. No loss of hole or shot penalty.


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## bladeplayer (Sep 21, 2015)

* From  instagtam , tried to copy link but i am useless at it..

suzannpettersenI've never felt more gutted and truly sad about what went down Sunday on the 17th at the Solheim Cup. 
I am so sorry for not thinking about the bigger picture in the heat of the battle and competition. I was trying my hardest for my team and put the single match and the point that could be earned ahead of sportsmanship and the game of golf itself! I feel like I let my team down and I am sorry.
To the U.S. team, you guys have a great leader in Juli , who I've always looked up to and respect so much. Knowing I need to make things "right," I had a face to face chat with her before leaving Germany this morning to tell her in person how I really feel about all of this. I wanted her also to know that I am sorry.
I hope in time the U.S. team will forgive me and know that I have learned a valuable lesson about what is truly important in this great game of golf which has given me so much in my life.*

*To the fans of golf who watched the competition on TV, I am sorry for the way I carried myself. I can be so much better and being an ambassador for this great game means a lot to me.
The Solheim Cup has been a huge part of my career. I wish I could change Sunday for many reasons. Unfortunately I can't. 
This week I want to push forward toward another opportunity to earn the Solheim Cup back for Europe in the right way. And I want to work hard to earn back your belief in me as someone who plays hard, plays fair and plays the great game of golf the right way.*


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## Kellfire (Sep 21, 2015)

Such a shame that PR takes precedence over playing the game by the rules, even for a wiley old stalwart like Suzann.


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## chrisd (Sep 21, 2015)

A fair statement and apology, not an admission of doing anything wrong though. In the wider world, rather than the golf world, it'll not matter a jot either way. The 6.30 pm BBC news didn't even mention the result let alone the incident.


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## delc (Sep 21, 2015)

The referree seemed satisfied that the putt hadn't been conceded, so isn't that all that matters?


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## Sweep (Sep 21, 2015)

Very interesting development with the apology from Pettersen.
However, it has occurred to me that as far as I know (and I stand to be corrected and I am sure I will be  ) golf matchplay is the only game where a player gives or concedes opponents shots or points. Whilst I fully support the high levels of sportsmanship in golf and the notion that golf is different to other sports, for the first time I have found myself thinking that permitting concessions causes more trouble than its worth. I really don't like it when your opponent leaves themselves with a 3 footer or less, those borderline ones where you look mean if you don't give them, but really in the interests of the game, you should see them in. After all, if it's a gimme it's pretty much unmissable, right? So why not put it in?
I have seen 3" putts missed and it would save a lot of confusion and heartache if the practice ended and this sad incident would never have happened. 
TBH I am not sure how I feel about this, but it's worth thinking about.


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## Smiffy (Sep 21, 2015)

delc said:



			The referree seemed satisfied that the putt hadn't been conceded, so isn't that all that matters?
		
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It took him a while to work it out.
And he had to be told it hadn't been conceded. 
He "assumed" (like the vast majority of us) that it had.


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## Jimaroid (Sep 21, 2015)

Not surprised Pettersen has apologised. I thought it was quite telling what Laura Davis said not long after it had happened:




			Asked for her reaction on Sky Sports 4, 12-time Solheim Cup player Dame Laura Davies said: "Disgusted. We have got our best player, Charley Hull, who has just won a point and she is in floods of tears. That tells you the wrong thing was done. How Suzann can justify that I will never, ever know. We are all fierce competitors but ultimately it's unfair. We have to play week in, week out together and you do not do something like that to a fellow pro."
		
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http://www.skysports.com/golf/news/29304/9998759/solheim-cup-controversy-as-europe-lead-10-6-ahead-of-singles


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## delc (Sep 21, 2015)

Apparently, Alison Lee's partner Britanny Lincicome yelled at her not to pick the ball up, so maybe that was what she misheard?


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## ShankyBoy (Sep 21, 2015)

Yeah, I don't see gimme's adding anything, they just cause more issues than they are worth, as stated, if such a gimme, it's a no brainer to put the thing in the hole. We don't have it in stroke play, remove it from match play too.


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## happyhacker (Sep 21, 2015)

Petterson actually regrets incident or Monday morning PR exercise in damage limitation for her sponsorships? 

I know which I view it as .........


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## AmandaJR (Sep 21, 2015)

happyhacker said:



			Petterson actually regrets incident or Monday morning PR exercise in damage limitation for her sponsorships? 

I know which I view it as ......... 

Click to expand...

Me too. I think someone said on this thread she was a Nike player so to expect an apology.


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## delc (Sep 21, 2015)

ShankyBoy said:



			Yeah, I don't see gimme's adding anything, they just cause more issues than they are worth, as stated, if such a gimme, it's a no brainer to put the thing in the hole. We don't have it in stroke play, remove it from match play too.
		
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And slow down play even more?  Conceding putts is, and always has been, part of Matchplay.


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## Hacker Khan (Sep 21, 2015)

Slab said:



			While it wasn't exactly gorgeous sunny weather giving max daylight, it was very very slow play that's been reported as losing the light
		
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Thanks for that.  May be in the long term this will do more harm to the game than the kerfuffle about a gimme or not. As if we are at the stage that the game is so slow that they can't finish their matches, then surely it can't make for a great TV spectacle.


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## jp5 (Sep 21, 2015)

delc said:



			And slow down play even more?  Conceding putts is, and always has been, part of Matchplay.
		
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Bigger issues to slow play than tapping in a putt.


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## Slab (Sep 21, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Thanks for that.  May be in the long term this will do more harm to the game than the kerfuffle about a gimme or not. As if we are at the stage that the game is so slow that they can't finish their matches, then surely it can't make for a great TV spectacle.
		
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Agree and with the ad-free coverage I watched of what is after all a limited field event in formats that should be quicker than strokeplay, just made it appear slower (or perhaps showed how slow it really was)

It seemed to be the time spent on greens that passed slowest of all


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## chrisd (Sep 21, 2015)

Matchplay without gimme's is just stroke play and would lose most of the appeal for me


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## mpluis (Sep 21, 2015)

chrisd said:



			Matchplay without gimme's is just stroke play and would lose most of the appeal for me
		
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 Yeah but the the ball must cross the LINE!!! to be a goal.

 I see what you say, this is personal match 1 on 1.


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## JustOne (Sep 21, 2015)

bozza said:



			What makes me laugh a few weeks ago a bloke on here got slated after his said a bloke in his club champs forgot to sign is card after the first round but a group of them got together and decided to break the rule out of "sportsmanship" and let him play. 

Now the same people are saying rules should be broken for "sportsmanship"
		
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Hi, and welcome to the forum :whoo:


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## ShankyBoy (Sep 21, 2015)

chrisd said:



			Matchplay without gimme's is just stroke play and would lose most of the appeal for me
		
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Surely not? Matchplay is going 1 up, down etc..the total number of shots doesn't apply, so losing gimmes wouldn't matter there?


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## AmandaJR (Sep 21, 2015)

ShankyBoy said:



			Surely not? Matchplay is going 1 up, down etc..the total number of shots doesn't apply, so losing gimmes wouldn't matter there?
		
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I agree and personally dislike the whole gimme option as it's the main cause of dispute/bad feeling in matchplay.


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## JustOne (Sep 21, 2015)

ShankyBoy said:



			Yeah, I don't see gimme's adding anything, they just cause more issues than they are worth, as stated, if such a gimme, it's a no brainer to put the thing in the hole. We don't have it in stroke play, remove it from match play too.
		
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I like gimmies... it's nice when you give a few and then at crunch time you ask them to hole one.... perhaps a 2ft'er on the 17th?
It's a tactical game rather than just a 'get the ball in the hole' game just like when they hit it in the rough so you pull out an iron instead, you don't see people doing that in strokeplay.


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## bozza (Sep 21, 2015)

JustOne said:



			Hi, and welcome to the forum :whoo:
		
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Seems a few of them have short memories on here!.


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## JustOne (Sep 21, 2015)

Indeed.


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## Smiffy (Sep 21, 2015)

ShankyBoy said:



			Yeah, I don't see gimme's adding anything, they just cause more issues than they are worth, as stated, if such a gimme, it's a no brainer to put the thing in the hole. We don't have it in stroke play, remove it from match play too.
		
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So your opponent has nailed one 280 yards down the middle and has an 80 yard pitch onto the green.
You have oinked three into the trees and are now playing 7 off the tee.
Do you carry on?


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## ShankyBoy (Sep 21, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			So your opponent has nailed one 280 yards down the middle and has an 80 yard pitch onto the green.
You have oinked three into the trees and are now playing 7 off the tee.
Do you carry on?
		
Click to expand...

No, in that scenario I would concede the hole due to the massive shot difference and move on, which I think is different to asking someone to finish their 2 foot put downhill to either win or halve the hole.


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## garyinderry (Sep 21, 2015)

Is there any clear footage of what Suzanne does right after the putt?

Reports that she turned away?


If she continues to look at the play then I can see why she was so staunchly defending her position.  She believed she was in the right and she was. Albeit miles away from play.

Hull's story of going to ask her partner if they should give it or not doesn't cut it for me from the videos I've seen. 

Crossed wires all over the shop.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

garyinderry said:



			Is there any clear footage of what Suzanne does right after the putt?

Reports that she turned away?


If she continues to look at the play then I can see why she was so staunchly defending her position.  She believed she was in the right and she was. Albeit miles away from play.

Hull's story of going to ask her partner if they should give it or not doesn't cut it for me from the videos I've seen. 

Crossed wires all over the shop.
		
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Inkster said she sort of half turned


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## TH63 (Sep 21, 2015)

garyinderry said:



			Is there any clear footage of what Suzanne does right after the putt?

Reports that she turned away?


If she continues to look at the play then I can see why she was so staunchly defending her position.  She believed she was in the right and she was. Albeit miles away from play.

Hull's story of going to ask her partner if they should give it or not doesn't cut it for me from the videos I've seen. 

Crossed wires all over the shop.
		
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If she wanted to see the putt in, wouldn't it have been clearer all round if she'd been positioned next to her playing partner and told her she couldn't give it?


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## pokerjoke (Sep 21, 2015)

chrisd said:



			Matchplay without gimme's is just stroke play and would lose most of the appeal for me
		
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So your saying conceding 3 little putts early and then making him putt a 2 footer later on just to see if he can handle a little pressure is why you see matchplay as appealing.
Like a game within a game.

I would find giving a couple short putts early and then asking him to putt a 2ft putt later on a little embarrassing to ask.

Not an argument mate just how I see it.


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## Smiffy (Sep 21, 2015)

pokerjoke said:



			So your saying conceding 3 little putts early and then making him putt a 2 footer later on just to see if he can handle a little pressure is why you see matchplay as appealing.
*Like a game within a game.*

Click to expand...

Matchplay is 18 games within a game


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## pokerjoke (Sep 21, 2015)

delc said:



			And slow down play even more?  Conceding putts is, and always has been, part of Matchplay.
		
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Why do you see golf as a race.
These tap ins take seconds faffing around with yardages and PSR are more of a concern for me.
Everyone could see the first 2 days were never going to get finished and it had nothing to do with conceding putts.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 21, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			Matchplay is 18 games within a game
		
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I can understand where you are coming from but I see it as 18 holes within a game.

I can miss a 2ft putt so I believe my opponent can.
Giving 3 early to see one late on I just don't get that.


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## bluewolf (Sep 21, 2015)

pokerjoke said:



			Why do you see golf as a race.
These tap ins take seconds faffing around with yardages and PSR are more of a concern for me.
Everyone could see the first 2 days were never going to get finished and it had nothing to do with conceding putts.
		
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Exactly. I played Matchplay on Tuesday. I conceded 4 putts. Each of those putts would have taken about 15 seconds to hole.. So, 1 minute in total.. If we're now claiming that 1 minute is the difference between slow and acceptable then I really fear for the mental health of some people on this site...


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## bladeplayer (Sep 21, 2015)

pokerjoke said:



			Why do you see golf as a race.
These tap ins take seconds faffing around with yardages and PSR are more of a concern for me.
Everyone could see the first 2 days were never going to get finished and it had nothing to do with conceding putts.
		
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And if they cant get 8 matches around . with half of them 4somes , it should (but wont be) a wake up call


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## delc (Sep 21, 2015)

pokerjoke said:



			Why do you see golf as a race.
These tap ins take seconds faffing around with yardages and PSR are more of a concern for me.
Everyone could see the first 2 days were never going to get finished and it had nothing to do with conceding putts.
		
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Yes, both most pro and many elite amateur golfers will spend a minute looking at the putt from every angle, plus several practice strokes, before committing to playing the shot!


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## Smiffy (Sep 21, 2015)

pokerjoke said:



			Why do you see golf as a race.
These tap ins take seconds
		
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I'm not advocating rushing around, I love a stroll now and again.
But my mate Ray Taylor insists that everything is putted. No gimmes is the first thing he says when we get on to the 1st tee.
I can guarantee a round played under those instructions takes longer than a round where we have gimmes.
The blokes a tosser


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## patricks148 (Sep 21, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			I'm not advocating rushing around, I love a stroll now and again.
But my mate Ray Taylor insists that everything is putted. No gimmes is the first thing he says when we get on to the 1st tee.
I can guarantee a round played under those instructions takes longer than a round where we have gimmes.
The blokes a tosser


Click to expand...

or he knows you are at crap at putting and making you hole them will win him a few holes


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## Region3 (Sep 21, 2015)

delc said:



			Yes, both most pro and many elite amateur golfers will spend a minute looking at the putt from every angle, plus several practice strokes, before committing to playing the shot!  

Click to expand...

If a putt deserves that much care and attention, it isn't a gimme.

It's a gimme if during strokeplay I'd knock it in with one hand standing on one leg.


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## chrisd (Sep 21, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			I'm not advocating rushing around, I love a stroll now and again.
But my mate Ray Taylor insists that everything is putted. No gimmes is the first thing he says when we get on to the 1st tee.
I can guarantee a round played under those instructions takes longer than a round where we have gimmes.
The blokes a tosser


Click to expand...

Yep, we all 16 holed out for 4 rounds at Gainsborough just because Ray said we had to!  :smirk:


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## delc (Sep 21, 2015)

Region3 said:



			If a putt deserves that much care and attention, it isn't a gimme.

It's a gimme if during strokeplay I'd knock it in with one hand standing on one leg.
		
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One of my golfing friends is known to be a bit yippy on short putts, so those who know this never concede them!


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## bluewolf (Sep 21, 2015)

delc said:



			One of my golfing friends is known to be a bit yippy on short putts, so those who know this never concede them!
		
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Don't do it Del.. Not here, not now... :thup:


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## jp5 (Sep 21, 2015)

JustOne said:



			I like gimmies... it's nice when you give a few and then at crunch time you ask them to hole one.... perhaps a 2ft'er on the 17th?
It's a tactical game rather than just a 'get the ball in the hole' game just like when they hit it in the rough so you pull out an iron instead, *you don't see people doing that in strokeplay.*

Click to expand...

Of course you do!


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## jp5 (Sep 21, 2015)

chrisd said:



			Matchplay without gimme's is just stroke play and would lose most of the appeal for me
		
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Strange comment. Match play is all about the altered risk/reward balance.

Can go for shots knowing that the worst situation is a hole lost, rather than 10 shots (and 5 balls)!


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## JamesR (Sep 21, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			Don't do it Del.. Not here, not now... :thup:
		
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If the hole was bigger he wouldn't have to would he?

Oh God, I've just done it for him, haven't I 

Sorry


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## JustOne (Sep 21, 2015)

jp5 said:



			Of course you do!
		
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You're on a par 5, your playing partner slices a driver 100yds out of bounds so you pull out a 5 iron as a tactic????


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## delc (Sep 21, 2015)

JamesR said:



			If the hole was bigger he wouldn't have to would he?

Oh God, I've just done it for him, haven't I 

Sorry
		
Click to expand...

Don't worry!  I'm not going to say anything this time.


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## jp5 (Sep 21, 2015)

JustOne said:



			You're on a par 5, your playing partner slices a driver 100yds out of bounds so you pull out a 5 iron as a tactic???? 

Click to expand...

Last hole on a Sunday, all tied going up the last - of course!

Look at J Day on the driveable par 4 15th this past week. Drive it on Thurs + Fri, lay up on Sat (+ make bogey!) + Sun. 

Rest of field affects your decisions.


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## Slime (Sep 21, 2015)

Interesting piece in The Guardian this morning.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...-pettersen-alison-lee-solheim-cup-ewan-murray

It doesn't show Pettersen in a particularly good light!

The bit that really spiked my interest was this;

"*Both the US and European camps denied rumours that players and Lee in  particular had earlier been warned about picking up prematurely*".

Hmmmm ........... maybe we'll never know the truth.


*Slime*.


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## delc (Sep 21, 2015)

Slime said:



			Interesting piece in The Guardian this morning.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...-pettersen-alison-lee-solheim-cup-ewan-murray

It doesn't show Pettersen in a particularly good light!

The bit that really spiked my interest was this;

"*Both the US and European camps denied rumours that players and Lee in  particular had earlier been warned about picking up prematurely*".

Hmmmm ........... maybe we'll never know the truth.


*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...

I think that Suzanne Pettersen has been forced to apologise by her sponsors, when really she did nothing wrong.  Alison Lee apparently had previous form for picking up short putts before her opponents had formerly conceded them, so she was the one in the wrong!


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## upsidedown (Sep 21, 2015)

delc said:



			Alison Lee apparently had previous form for picking up short putts before her opponents had formerly conceded them, so she was the one in the wrong!
		
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Have you a link for that  please ?


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## richart (Sep 21, 2015)

upsidedown said:



			Have you a link for that  please ?
		
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 That is what I would like to see. All this talk that she had been warned, but no one is admitting to warning her.:mmm:


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## AmandaJR (Sep 21, 2015)

richart said:



			That is what I would like to see. All this talk that she had been warned, but no one is admitting to warning her.:mmm:
		
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Yep. Asked the same question yesterday as, for me, it puts a totally different spin on the situation and Pettersen's actions/reaction.

Had to laugh at the Guardians comment "tiny putt" - can't be from a golfer!!


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## adam6177 (Sep 21, 2015)

I'm happy to watch any video with Alison Lee in it :thup:


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## JohnnyDee (Sep 21, 2015)

Did something contentious happen in the Solhiem cup then?

What...whaddid I miss? *



* I'll get my coat


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 21, 2015)

adam6177 said:



			I'm happy to watch any video with Alison Lee in it :thup:
		
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Haha not just me then. 
Gerina Piller isnt too bad either.


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## Slime (Sep 21, 2015)

Yeah, I was kinda hoping it would be hot and sunny for all three days .

*Slime*.


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## Fish (Sep 21, 2015)

Slime said:



			Yeah, I was kinda hoping it would be hot and sunny for all three days .

*Slime*.
		
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or cold #erectumnippleitosis


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

richart said:



			That is what I would like to see. All this talk that she had been warned, but no one is admitting to warning her.:mmm:
		
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It was being sad by Rob Lee in the commentary and he was saying it was from the European a capt - I hope fibs aren't being told as it does put a different light on some things


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## Qwerty (Sep 21, 2015)

I couldn't help thinking that it was only a matter of time before there was a Brookline type incident at the Solheim Cup. 
 It had to Happen sooner or later with both teams increasingly poor attempts to get under each other's skin Via the Garish Outfits, Silly Facepainting, Exaggerated aggressive celebrations over Tap in putts and general OTT behaviour.
It was beginning to Remind me of Corey Pavin at Kiawah Island and Duval at Brookline with his OTT fist pumping. See Below.. Still annoys me now :angry:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z-U8e6TwVmM

Maybe they'll reign it in a bit after this, I hope so as its a great event but personally I thought it was getting embarrassing at times. Just like Duval


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 21, 2015)

Fish said:



			or cold #erectumnippleitosis 

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Perv


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

Qwerty said:



			I couldn't help thinking that it was only a matter of time before there was a Brookline type incident at the Solheim Cup. 
 It had to Happen sooner or later with both teams increasingly poor attempts to get under each other's skin Via the Garish Outfits, Silly Facepainting, Exaggerated aggressive celebrations over Tap in putts and general OTT behaviour.
It was beginning to Remind me of Corey Pavin at Kiawah Island and Duval at Brookline with his OTT fist pumping. See Below.. Still annoys me now :angry:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z-U8e6TwVmM

Maybe they'll reign it in a bit after this, I hope so as its a great event but personally I thought it was getting embarrassing at times. Just like Duval 

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It was getting all a bit too much - when the first pumps and over celebrating happen in the Ryder Cup it seems on the spur of the moment and natural for some reason in the Solheim it seems forced


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## ger147 (Sep 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was being sad by Rob Lee in the commentary and he was saying it was from the European a capt - I hope fibs aren't being told as it does put a different light on some things
		
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This was on the BCC Sport site this morning before the apology was published:

_"Suggestions that the youngster had made similar mistakes earlier in the same match were later denied by Pettersen."

_http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/34310244


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## Smiffy (Sep 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I hope fibs aren't being told as it does put a different light on some things
		
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Yep. Your 48 posts yesterday mentioning the fact that she had been warned about doing it before....


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			Yep. Your 48 posts yesterday mentioning the fact that she had been warned about doing it before....


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Have you had your monthly bath yet ? Don't want you smelling too bad on Wed


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## JustOne (Sep 21, 2015)

jp5 said:



			Last hole on a Sunday, all tied going up the last - of course!

Look at J Day on the driveable par 4 15th this past week. Drive it on Thurs + Fri, lay up on Sat (+ make bogey!) + Sun. 

Rest of field affects your decisions.
		
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Fair enough example. :thup:


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 21, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			Yep. Your 48 posts yesterday mentioning the fact that she had been warned about doing it before....


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Not to mention the 101 posts about people being accused of lying


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## 3565 (Sep 21, 2015)

I wonder what the greatest matchplay mind game player of all time, be thinking about this whole incident. 

Seve.


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## Qwerty (Sep 21, 2015)

3565 said:



			I wonder what the greatest matchplay mind game player of all time, be thinking about this whole incident. 

Seve.
		
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I don't know, but if an opponent suddenly developed an intermittent cough that kept occurring on my backswing I'd tell them to stick the match up there backside and walk off.


 I don't suppose you can do that in the Ryder cup though.

Theres banter then Theres mind games then Theres just too far.


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## Robobum (Sep 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was being sad by Rob Lee in the commentary and he was saying it was from the European a capt - I hope fibs aren't being told as it does put a different light on some things
		
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Push the clutch right down before selecting reverse Phil


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 21, 2015)

Certainly SSN were pushing the previous warning story this morning before I went to work. If this has now changed and there would seem to be a shift away from that then there would be a different light shed. Mind you the Solheim cup has form http://www.skysports.com/golf/news/29304/9967886/five-flashpoints-from and while it isn't quite a "Brookline" if it's found there were no previous warning it isn't good. Personally whatever the rights and wrongs, the US performed heroically in the singles and won well and that "should" be the end of the matter. Oh for such a utopian world


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## Craigg (Sep 21, 2015)




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