# What exactly happens to club if you shorten the shaft?



## dejf (Nov 21, 2015)

Assume you have a driver and the only thing you do is to shorten its shaft by 1 inch. You do nothing else to manipulate its properties. What exactly will be different after that procedure in the behavior of the club? I am interested in stiffness, swing weight, ... everything ... including potentially subjective properties like "better control". 


And second question - is this "just shortening the shaft" what would happen if you ordered from manufacturer a club with 1 inch shorter shaft than normal? Is this how they do it (just cut 1 inch off) or do they create a completely different shaft that is by design 1 inch shorter and actually does have different properties compared to the one you would get by getting standard size and then cutting 1 inch off?


Thanks a lot!


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## evahakool (Nov 21, 2015)

You hit more fairways and don't lose much distance.

Someone with better knowledge than me will give you the answers you want:thup:


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## Region3 (Nov 21, 2015)

I would say it will feel lighter to swing and you will notice it, and it will be fractionally stiffer but you won't notice it.

You may or may not like the lighter swingweight, it's a suck it and see job.

I'm not sure if manufacturers do anything to get the swing weight back if you order a shorter club, but they should do if you ask them to.


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## Maninblack4612 (Nov 21, 2015)

Looking at it the other way round I bought a stiff Black Tie to compare it with my regular model. Fitted to the SLDR I couldn't get enough height on it &  it felt a bit too stiff. I added 1" to the length &  it behaved like a completely different shaft.  I could feel the extra weight,  it definitely felt less stiff &,  more importantly,  the launch was much higher,  presumably because the extra length softened the shaft. 

Re . the length of custom shafts,  the supplier will simply trim the butt of a standard shaft to obtain the desired length. Sometimes,  if the shaft needs to be just a little stiffer,  the fitter might take between Â¼" & Â½" off the tip to get a flex between,  say,  stiff &  regular. 

If you shorten your shaft the most significant change you might notice is a loss of height which may affect the distance you can hit it.


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## Foxholer (Nov 21, 2015)

dejf said:



			Assume you have a driver and the only thing you do is to shorten its shaft by 1 inch. You do nothing else to manipulate its properties. What exactly will be different after that procedure in the behavior of the club? I am interested in stiffness, swing weight, ... everything ... including potentially subjective properties like "better control". 


And second question - is this "just shortening the shaft" what would happen if you ordered from manufacturer a club with 1 inch shorter shaft than normal? Is this how they do it (just cut 1 inch off) or do they create a completely different shaft that is by design 1 inch shorter and actually does have different properties compared to the one you would get by getting standard size and then cutting 1 inch off?


Thanks a lot!
		
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Swing weight goes down by a little - 6 points per inch. 

What happens to other characteristics depends on the profile of the shaft - as this varies over the its length! Most important though is which end you shorten!! Much more (stiffening) effect if you take it off the tip than off the butt! Taking it off the Butt (the normal method and how it would be done if you simply specified a shorter length) has a marginal effect, while taking it off the tip typically alters the flex by half a flex per inch. Note that there are no standards for flex anyway, so those numbers/measurements are a little 'fuzzy'!

Shortening the shaft will most likely allow you to hit it better more often!


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## Alex1975 (Nov 21, 2015)

My advice would be to take 1/2" at a time, you can't put it back on. As Foxholer says, butt trim it unless are are actually trying to alter the tip stiffness.


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## Maninblack4612 (Nov 22, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			My advice would be to take 1/2" at a time, *you can't put it back on*. As Foxholer says, butt trim it unless are are actually trying to alter the tip stiffness.
		
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Yes you can. The length of my driver shaft has been up & down like a bride's nightie.


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## dejf (Nov 22, 2015)

Cheers Foxholer! But 6 points per inch - that does not sound like "a bit", that sounds more like "a ton"  
I have D3, D4 and my old one was D2. 
My new one is 45.75 inch, my old one was 44.5 inch.
If I go 8 down (1.25 inch) from D3 that might be a huge difference. 
I understand that a lead tape can change this back, but how reliable are lead tapes? 
Do they not go off if you touch a ground in your swing?


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## Maninblack4612 (Nov 22, 2015)

This swing weight estimator may help you.  I've compared it's output with a clubfitter's measuring device & it was spot on. 

http://www.leaderboard.com/SWINGWT.HTM


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## dejf (Nov 22, 2015)

Maninblack4612 said:



			This swing weight estimator may help you.  I've compared it's output with a clubfitter's measuring device & it was spot on. 

http://www.leaderboard.com/SWINGWT.HTM

Click to expand...


Nice tool, thanks!
The manufacturer says it is D3/D4 and the tool says almost exactly between D3 and D4, so that matches perfectly.

If I understand it well, the problem is that I can't use it to calculate the new swing weight, because I do not know where my new balance point will be after the cut and I also do not know how much weight will the club lose. Although, I assume this can be counted provided that I am able to find the whole weight of the shaft and weight of the grip ... sounds like too much math  
But using some random numbers, it seems like the final thing will be C8, which is like those 6 points down Foxholer said.


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## Foxholer (Nov 22, 2015)

dejf said:



			Cheers Foxholer! But 6 points per inch - that does not sound like "a bit", that sounds more like "a ton"  
I have D3, D4 and my old one was D2. 
My new one is 45.75 inch, my old one was 44.5 inch.
If I go 8 down (1.25 inch) from D3 that might be a huge difference. 
I understand that a lead tape can change this back, but how reliable are lead tapes? 
Do they not go off if you touch a ground in your swing?
		
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While the scale indicates that it's 'lots', the actual difference is very small! It's purely the scale that makes it seem 'lots'!

I managed to get a set of irons set at 2 different SWs (log story) that were 4-5 points apart. I couldn't tell the difference! Though I did get them all set the same just to set it straight in my head!!

If you read further down that article MiB posted the link to, then you will see that much of the dependence on Swing weight for getting 'feel' right is a fallacy!

The advantage of shortening the club (over lengthening it) is that if the feel isn't ideal, then the process of 'correcting' it is pretty simple! Lead tape can be used initially, then the change can be made 'permanent' with Tungsten powder down the shaft jammed in with a cork.


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## dejf (Nov 22, 2015)

Thanks again Foxholer! 

Now, the question is - how much can I tell that I want it shorter from trying to grip it lower? Is it a good approximation of the end product feel? Obviously it won't be the same, so is it worth trying to play with lowered grip, can I get any valuable information from it?


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## the_coach (Nov 22, 2015)

my take is I believe most index players are playing with driver shafts that are a tad too long

issue with adding lead tape is you do run possibly the risk of the tape coming adrift during play - plus you would have to know exactly where to place it from the get-go whether weight favors heel or toe too much etc what it does to CG then horizontal line to ideal strike location on face

on driver faces because of 'bulge & roll' there's also only one location of the face that's 'true loft' of the driver model (9.5, 10.5 or whatever isn't just anywhere on the face)

weight being added would be done by a 'good fitter' by either using 'tip weights' or 'tungsten powder' or 'hot melt' (in effect is glue) on the 'inside' - tip weights being the best option as there probably would have to be too much bulk added going the 'hot melt' route

swing weight would change if it was just "butt' trimmed plus overall club weight so depends whether you notice that enough during use but it would also change the MOI some too perhaps more of an issue than swing weight

so a good fitter because of all of the above would 'tip trim' some plus 'butt trim' to get the shaft to the optimum length whilst remaining the same in swingweight, frequency & MOI 

the amount of weight you'd have to add is greater than you'd think - so cutting off the amount you looking to from the butt end only would mean adding as much as 14g's to the club head weight
10g is as much as 2 cycle frequencies so then in effect you making the shaft more flexible (soft) by a whole category so "stiff down to reg" or regular shaft down even more soft

so best ways if you can stump the $ outlay would be find a real good independent fitter

meantime first off you could always just use a band of thin masking tape to indicate the length of 'cut' then use the club with hands only to that marker - you know then you really putting hands in the correct location each time & see what that does to shot results in terms of more accuracy


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## dejf (Nov 22, 2015)

Cheers the_coach!

The only thing I do not understand from what you wrote is the "10g = 2 cycle" thing. First - what is a cycle frequency? Second - will adding weight to club head / shaft tip make the end product less stiff?


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## the_coach (Nov 22, 2015)

dejf said:



			Cheers the_coach!

The only thing I do not understand from what you wrote is the "10g = 2 cycle" thing. First - what is a cycle frequency? Second - will adding weight to club head / shaft tip make the end product less stiff?
		
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10 grams of weight at the head (but probably around 14g needed given the amount "butt cut" length being thought of) will if nothing else is done then make the shaft more 'soft' so less stiff by a whole category so stiff shaft would become regular in terms of playing proflle.

the 'cycles' is the reference term to shaft bend profile, shaft frequency - so in effect it's what's generally spoken of in terms of shaft 'stiffness' or 'softness'

if you just cut the butt end & didn't add weight to the head then the shaft would play a tad stiffer not by much though - but the whole club would maybes 'feel' light which could affect swing rhythm particularly at takeaway & transition


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## dejf (Nov 22, 2015)

Thanks mate!


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## Alex1975 (Nov 22, 2015)

Maninblack4612 said:



			Yes you can. The length of my driver shaft has been up & down like a bride's nightie.
		
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You can't put the cut shaft back, you can make the club longer again. Small difference maybe but still.


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## Foxholer (Nov 22, 2015)

dejf said:



			Thanks again Foxholer! 

Now, the question is - how much can I tell that I want it shorter from trying to grip it lower? Is it a good approximation of the end product feel? Obviously it won't be the same, so is it worth trying to play with lowered grip, can I get any valuable information from it?
		
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Gripping down will give you a resonably good approximation as to how it will feel, but it won't actually be 'the same'! That's because the grip will be thinner at the point you grip down to and, , more importantly, the excess will be acting as a very slight counterbalance - which will affect the swing weight - while you are doing so. However, unless you are particularly sensitive to this sort of thing, then, imo, you won't notice it after a couple of swings!



dejf said:



			Cheers the_coach!

The only thing I do not understand from what you wrote is the "10g = 2 cycle" thing. First - what is a cycle frequency? Second - will adding weight to club head / shaft tip make the end product less stiff?
		
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The 'cycles' are the result of measurement on a CPM machine, which is the standard way in which shafts flexes are measured - though it's only relevant to 'identical' profile/weight shafts, as these vary across different styles and brands of shaft. The uncut shaft is put in a 'grip' (5 inches from the butt from memory) and the tip tweaked. The frequency at which the shaft oscillates is a measure of how stiff that shaft is. A Stiff shaft may oscillate at round 253 cpm; an X Flex at around 263cpm. As a comparison, several 'prototypes' apparently headed for Tiger Woods's testing were rated at 280pm!

CPM measurement is not an entirely satisfactory way of comparing different shafts (the butt attribute dominates) and Cleveland (through their subsidary Miyazaki) proposed an 'International Standard' method - that has not been adopted - of rating the flex at 4 different points. The reason for doing that is that the different profiles can be seen rather clearer, so individual player preference/requirements can be gleaned better! 

CPM does, however, allow a set of shafts (for irons) to be matched, as the profile of the individual shafts is pretty consistent. This is what 'Frequency Matching', as opposed to 'Weight Matching' is all about.

Adding weight to the head will indeed make the shaft feel less stiff. Again, depending on the amount of weight, this might not be noticeable, but for those who are particularly sensitive, the tape can be added near the ferrule and balanced by some under the grip. Again, I believe that, except for rare.particularly finnicky folk, the difference will not be noticed after a couple of swings!


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## dejf (Nov 22, 2015)

Cool info, thanks! I am not hardware guy (I focus all my energy on to my swing and game, not clubs), so this is like magic to me  I believe I have created my swing to match clubs (9yr old clubs, including the driver), and not vice versa (like players get measured and clubs get fitted to them). So, this stuff is all new to me. Hopefully, I will be able to hit a ball again with a driver soon ...


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## shewy (Nov 22, 2015)

Glad this thread came along, I'm going for an inch off my Driver to 44.5", and inch off my 3 wood to 42" and taking 3/4" off my hybrid down to 40".
Being not overly tall I believe that clubs are generally too long for most amateurs anyway.
Found a local club fitter as really don't want tape all over the head, tip weights sounds like a great idea.


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## shewy (Nov 23, 2015)

Just been doing some reading up on swingweights, if you shorten your driver by 1" say would putting on a lighter grip keep the swingweight the same? Golfpride do a 25g grip instead of the normal 55g one.


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## Region3 (Nov 23, 2015)

shewy said:



			Just been doing some reading up on swingweights, if you shorten your driver by 1" say would putting on a lighter grip keep the swingweight the same? Golfpride do a 25g grip instead of the normal 55g one.
		
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1 swingweight point is the equivalent of about 4g at the grip end.


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## shewy (Nov 23, 2015)

So a 30g lighter grip would keep the same swingweight then if you say take an inch off.


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## dejf (Nov 24, 2015)

OK, so tried to grip it lower, made a good difference. Went to our club maker, after 5 minutes the job was done. Butt end cut from 45.75 to 44.5 and replacing grip for lightweight, made the weight go from 303g to 285g, the swing weight went from D3/D4 to D4.

I asked specifically about the stiffness of the shaft, whether it would change. The answer was "no, we are butt cutting, it won't change [significantly]."

It remains to see if it helped ...


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## SteveJay (Nov 24, 2015)

Can I ask a more basic question.......lot of discussion about cutting a fraction off, and quoting revised lengths. How do you measure shaft length if the head remains on the club, I.e. What is the correct point around the hosel area to measure to?


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## dejf (Nov 24, 2015)

SteveJay said:



			Can I ask a more basic question.......lot of discussion about cutting a fraction off, and quoting revised lengths. How do you measure shaft length if the head remains on the club, I.e. What is the correct point around the hosel area to measure to?
		
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That's the tricky one  You put your club square and put your measuring device behind the shaft in that position. Obviously, it is quite hard, if you do not have what they call "yard stick" or something like that.

See images here: http://www.thediygolfer.com/how-to-measure-a-golf-club/


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## SteveJay (Nov 24, 2015)

Thanks delf, that's helpful. So shaft length is, in fact, inclusive of the head and is measured to the ground. Good job I checked otherwise I may have cut off too much if I ever decide to brandish the hacksaw!!


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## shewy (Dec 1, 2015)

I couldn't bring myself to cut down my speeder by an inch, so I ordered a new shaft, sleeve and lightweight grip instead! Oh and a 13.5 ht driver head accidentally fell into my basket as well, time to experiment I think


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## shewy (Dec 8, 2015)

So all the stuff arrived and i tried out the shorter driver, felt pretty easy to swing and some nice shots hit, but for me the best combo I could muster was the high loft driver with the longer shaft 45.5" felt solid and even the mi***** were ok due to the higher loft being more forgiving. The 44.5" was easy to hit though so there may be some merit in playing a shorter shaft for some, a lighter grip really helps with the swingweight.
I was getting a high ballflight with the 9 degree driver and the 13.5 was not that much higher due to a shallower swingpath I think


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## dejf (Dec 8, 2015)

I am now playing with shortened 44.5 version of mine and I do not feel comfortable yet, but I do hit some solid shots from time to time. I guess the shaft is little bit different to my old one, so it will take me some time to find how to play it.


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