# Bar levy/card



## Jaco (Dec 2, 2017)

I joined a nine hole course six months back, which I really like but which doesn't have a bar. It used to, but they converted it into something else some time back. It's a shame because a couple of pints is essential when I play with mates, and fortunately there's a pub 2 minutes drive away.
When I look at the main clubs in my area, they all seem to have a bar levy of about Â£50 on top of their membership fee. I take it that this is just a pre-paid credit? What's the point, is it because people don't use the bar these days? Seems crazy to me that people wouldn't, as long as it's inviting of course.


----------



## TreeSeeker (Dec 2, 2017)

My personal view on this is its to make money, if you give credit for the bar in the membership chances are its not fully funded (ie you're getting Â£50 of credit for say Â£30 of your membership cost) that means you go and use your Â£50. Â£50 is enough that you'll get used to going there, and potential develop a habit such that you go more in the future to use the restaurant / bar. Or perhaps the sales line of its to encourage participation in the social side of golf is actually true. Either way i'd gonna be spending more than Â£50 over the year there so its as makes no difference to me.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 2, 2017)

We use to have it but research found it was off putting to new members and was done away with a few years back. Â£50 a year at the time and yet many at the club were not spending a large percentage of this in the 12 month subscription period. I accept that many have to get off after a game and family time is precious, but to barely use it across the year including in the summer is very poor in my opinion. Funny how when the club announced unspent amounts would be defaulted they turned up and cleared the place of spirits and wine


----------



## Hobbit (Dec 2, 2017)

I've always used the bar, both after rounds and for ad hoc visits. Eat in there almost every week too. However, I totally disagree with bar levies. People join golf clubs, not drinking clubs. 

Its up to the clubs to make them as attractive as possible, not get money irrespective of whether or not its a good bar/product.


----------



## Jaco (Dec 2, 2017)

Surely if you need to charge a compulsory 50 quid, the problem is that the bar/restaurant isn't welcoming enough. I remember being at a club years ago that was desperate for members as they were close to going bust, and an old duffer tapped my wife's foot with his and muttered "inappropriate footwear". She had trainers on as she'd just had a lesson. They sometimes struggle with the fact that people don't feel grateful anymore to be able to spend a grand a year to join their club.


----------



## rosecott (Dec 2, 2017)

The better route is to have smart cards which give several levels of discount according to how much you spend.


----------



## Fish (Dec 2, 2017)

My card is Â£150, my membership started September 1st and Iâ€™ve already topped it up 4 times with Â£100 each time. I spent over Â£1200 in my bar last year which was my lowest for a few years ðŸ˜œ


----------



## Bigfoot (Dec 2, 2017)

I spend much more than Â£50 per year but would also object to a levy card. The choice should be the members. Our bar is always is use after rounds so the need is not there anyway. Each club will have a different mix of members but generally similar in taste. Each club needs to ensure the members requirements are covered or they will have an empty bar.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2017)

Jaco said:



			Surely if you need to charge a compulsory 50 quid, the problem is that the bar/restaurant isn't welcoming enough. I remember being at a club years ago that was desperate for members as they were close to going bust, and an old duffer tapped my wife's foot with his and muttered "inappropriate footwear". She had trainers on as she'd just had a lesson. They sometimes struggle with the fact that people don't feel grateful anymore to be able to spend a grand a year to join their club.
		
Click to expand...

Some do it at the beginning of the membership year to give the Bar/Club X amount up front which they can then use on stock and negotiate good deals with suppliers:
ie: 400 member each handing over Â£50.00 = Â£20,000. 

Some Clubs also give members 10% discount on the bar prices so for the 50 quid up front they get 55 quid to spend on bar stock/bar food etc.

I donâ€™t see it as encouraging people to drink alcohol but a way of getting them to socialise and then spend more when the initial amount runs out.

As you can see from answers it can be divisive.


----------



## drdel (Dec 2, 2017)

I don't see the issue; I find it means I don't need to carry a wallet/cash while going for a game!


----------



## Imurg (Dec 2, 2017)

We were issued cards when we joined but we didn't have to put any money on them..
But, as we get 10% discount it's a no-brainer to do it.
I've always been against mandatory bar levies but if you're going to miss itn then it makes sense


----------



## brendy (Dec 2, 2017)

Jaysus I hope none of you guys drive home after even 2 pints.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 2, 2017)

Our place is the same as with Imurg. Cards, love them, that give a discount but no levy. I'm against a levy, it's my choice how and where I spend my money. Make the club attractive enough to make me want to spend money there.


----------



## User20205 (Dec 2, 2017)

brendy said:



			Jaysus I hope none of you guys drive home after even 2 pints.
		
Click to expand...

I was thinking that.....â€˜a couple of pints is essentialâ€™, canâ€™t do that really. Normally I leave it to phil to provide the moral outrage, but that doesnâ€™t really wash. That said there are a couple at my place who have 3-4 & drive regularly


----------



## User20205 (Dec 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Our place is the same as with Imurg. Cards, love them, that give a discount but no levy. I'm against a levy, it's my choice how and where I spend my money. Make the club attractive enough to make me want to spend money there.
		
Click to expand...

We have an Â£100 levy, it lasts 4-6 weeks. Itâ€™s money I would spend anyway & I get an additional 10%. I guess it does allow the bar/restaurant to budget as itâ€™s guaranteed income.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Dec 2, 2017)

Jaco said:



*Surely if you need to charge a compulsory 50 quid, the problem is that the bar/restaurant isn't welcoming enough.* I remember being at a club years ago that was desperate for members as they were close to going bust, and an old duffer tapped my wife's foot with his and muttered "inappropriate footwear". She had trainers on as she'd just had a lesson. They sometimes struggle with the fact that people don't feel grateful anymore to be able to spend a grand a year to join their club.
		
Click to expand...

Complete rot.  As someone else has pointed out, it gives the club a fund with which to negotiate better deals, there's the convenience of not having to carry cash and as members paying for drinks on the card there's a healthy discount.  As to the club not having a welcoming bar & restaurant, I'll leave that to those who have enjoyed the hospitality at my club to comment, but I haven't received any complaints so far.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 2, 2017)

therod said:



			I was thinking that.....â€˜a couple of pints is essentialâ€™, canâ€™t do that really. Normally I leave it to phil to provide the moral outrage, but that doesnâ€™t really wash. That said there are a couple at my place who have 3-4 & drive regularly

Click to expand...

I suspect the police could boost their arrest figures very easily by parking up outside an awful lot of golf clubs and checking those leaving. I see a lot of golfers having two pints and then driving. Not just at my club but when playing elsewhere. The message is somehow failing to get through to these people.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Dec 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I suspect the police could boost their arrest figures very easily by parking up outside an awful lot of golf clubs and checking those leaving. I see a lot of golfers having two pints and then driving. Not just at my club but when playing elsewhere. The message is somehow failing to get through to these people.
		
Click to expand...

I suspect that they couldn't as random breath testing is unlawful and driving out of a golf club car park in itself isn't sufficient grounds to require a breath test.  Do you think two pints would actually cause you to fail a breathalyser test in England or Wales?


----------



## TreeSeeker (Dec 2, 2017)

Pulling people over as soon as they finish drinking is a real waste of time, you can't breath test accurately for I think 20 minutes (correct if wrong?) because it would give an artificially high reading. And I think they need no further evidence than they think you've been drinking?


----------



## brendy (Dec 2, 2017)

Blue in Munich said:



			I suspect that they couldn't as random breath testing is unlawful and driving out of a golf club car park in itself isn't sufficient grounds to require a breath test.  Do you think two pints would actually cause you to fail a breathalyser test in England or Wales?
		
Click to expand...

Dunno about mainland but Police here have been given special dispensation to carry out random tests and yes 2 pints would have you on the limit or worse depending on strength.


----------



## jim8flog (Dec 2, 2017)

Blue in Munich said:



			Do you think two pints would actually cause you to fail a breathalyser test in England or Wales?
		
Click to expand...

For the majority of people the answer is yes.

I was once breathalysed 2 hours after drinking two pints of bitter, drunk with a good lunch, and I was just turning the test. The cop was very nice though and let me off with a very stern warning.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 2, 2017)

Blue in Munich said:



			I suspect that they couldn't as random breath testing is unlawful and driving out of a golf club car park in itself isn't sufficient grounds to require a breath test.  Do you think two pints would actually cause you to fail a breathalyser test in England or Wales?
		
Click to expand...

Depends on the beer I suspect...some of the stronger ones, 2 pints would be more than enough unless you're a Yeti......&#128513;


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2017)

Easy solution is to reduce the legal limit to as low as possible - any alcoholic drink that is consumed means that you canâ€™t drive. 

As for bay levies - donâ€™t see the problem with them and


----------



## jim8flog (Dec 2, 2017)

We used to have levy but the card got you a 20% discount at the bar. We dropped the levy but reduced the discount to 10%.

When you analysed the accounts we did not make a single penny profit on our bar. We still had staff wages to pay and I used to think it was fair that every member paid a contribution to the bar running costs. We now have a franchised bar and catering so we longer have the staff costs and actually show a profit from the catering and bar. The downside is that although we get a 10% discount with the card the costs of food and drink have gone a lot more.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 2, 2017)

Blue in Munich said:



			I suspect that they couldn't as random breath testing is unlawful and driving out of a golf club car park in itself isn't sufficient grounds to require a breath test.  Do you think two pints would actually cause you to fail a breathalyser test in England or Wales?
		
Click to expand...

They seem to be allowed random checks at Christmas. I think there is an issue at golf clubs and a sharp clampdown would help resolve it.

Apparently there are many variables but I work on 2 putting me over the limit and I suspect that would be the case for most people, I actually just have a soft drink or a coffee if I'm driving. If you asked people to drive onto the main road and then pull over and voluntarily give a breath test to a police officer I doubt you would get many takers. If you are not over the limit at two pints then you are perilously close.


----------



## DCB (Dec 2, 2017)

Blue in Munich said:



			I suspect that they couldn't as random breath testing is unlawful and driving out of a golf club car park in itself isn't sufficient grounds to require a breath test.  Do you think two pints would actually cause you to fail a breathalyser test in England or Wales?
		
Click to expand...

Thought they could still use section 6 to administer a breath test. A possible road traffic offence when leaving the car park would be enough for a stop,  once stopped, the suspicion that you had been drinking would be enough to test you.


----------



## NWJocko (Dec 2, 2017)

If you're going to be spending cash in the bar why would you oppose a chunk going on your card up front?

Ours is Â£100 and that's done in about a fortnight!  If your clubhouse/food etc is good then you'll whizz through it so a nonsense of an argument IMO, plus I assume you'll get some level of discount (i agree with the post about increasing discount in correlation with how much you spend :thup

Hate to think how much I put on my card over a year, probably 10/20x the initial "levy"


----------



## Blue in Munich (Dec 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



*They seem to be allowed random checks at Christmas. *I think there is an issue at golf clubs and a sharp clampdown would help resolve it.
		
Click to expand...

No, they are not, the same law applies all 12 months of the year.  I wouldn't disagree that there are probably issues with a few members at individual clubs, but I think you could fairly apply that comment to every pub/club/restaurant in the country.



Lord Tyrion said:



			Apparently there are many variables but I work on 2 putting me over the limit and I suspect that would be the case for most people, I actually just have a soft drink or a coffee if I'm driving. If you asked people to drive onto the main road and then pull over and voluntarily give a breath test to a police officer I doubt you would get many takers. If you are not over the limit at two pints then you are perilously close.
		
Click to expand...

Yes there are many variables but I suspect that two pints wouldn't put the majority of the golfing population over the limit.  I know what I base my opinion on, what do you base yours on?


----------



## Blue in Munich (Dec 2, 2017)

DCB said:



			Thought they could still use section 6 to administer a breath test. A possible road traffic offence when leaving the car park would be enough for a stop,  once stopped, the suspicion that you had been drinking would be enough to test you.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, section 6 of the Road Traffic Act is the power to require a breath test.  You can be required to take a breath test if the police suspect you have been drinking, if you have committed a moving road traffic offence or if you are involved in a road traffic accident.  Simply sitting up outside a golf club and breath testing anything that drives out of the car park as suggested in the post I responded to is an abuse of that power.  What offences do you think you might commit driving out of the car park?


----------



## Blue in Munich (Dec 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Easy solution is to reduce the legal limit to as low as possible - *any alcoholic drink that is consumed means that you canâ€™t drive*.
		
Click to expand...

Ridiculously simplistic as usual and totally impractical.  There's no great issue with the current limit, the issue is with the lack of people to enforce it.


----------



## Robster59 (Dec 2, 2017)

The reduced limits on alcohol level in Scotland effectively means one pint of a standard 4% abv beer will take you over the limit. 

Back on topic, our club has a compulsory bar charge of Â£50p.a. which gives you 10% off any drinks, alcoholic or non-alcoholic. It doesn't last long with me.


----------



## nairn1967 (Dec 3, 2017)

Jaco said:



			I joined a nine hole course six months back, which I really like but which doesn't have a bar. It used to, but they converted it into something else some time back. It's a shame because a couple of pints is essential when I play with mates, and fortunately there's a pub 2 minutes drive away.
When I look at the main clubs in my area, they all seem to have a bar levy of about Â£50 on top of their membership fee. I take it that this is just a pre-paid credit? What's the point, is it because people don't use the bar these days? Seems crazy to me that people wouldn't, as long as it's inviting of course.
		
Click to expand...


With so many clubs struggling these days in my opinion all clubs should adapt the bar levy policy, so many car park golfers ie those who play and take off right after their round would be encouraged to go in and support the club, remember you dont have to have alcohol, coffee and a bacon roll after a round is more appealing than a pint or two. 
Support your club. 
We have the levy at our club and it's so funny sitting in the bar at this time of year watching these folk come in to try and use up the Â£50, the initial Â£50 levy if not used is forfeited to the club if not used throughout the year, you can tell them a mile off, they are the ones who are leaving the club in December with bottles of wine under their arm :rofl:


----------



## Fish (Dec 3, 2017)

Everyoneâ€™s metabolism is different for various reasons so the simplistic 2 pints and your over would affect the majority of people as many have inferred to is wrong imo. 

Sex (gender), body weight, what food has been consumed and recent exercise to name just a few all contribute towards varying results, so the 2 pints and the majority of us would be over holds no water imo. 

The current law is just fine imo.


----------



## andyp1977 (Dec 3, 2017)

I got pulled 15 years ago having had 2 pints. The years ban was difficult to take. Almost lost my job. I thought Iâ€™d be fine after 2. Needless to say I donâ€™t have anything if Iâ€™m driving now. So yes, 2 pints can put you over.


----------



## hovis (Dec 3, 2017)

five and drive ent it???? &#128513;


----------



## User2021 (Dec 3, 2017)

Fish said:



			Everyoneâ€™s metabolism is different for various reasons so the simplistic 2 pints and your over would affect the majority of people as many have inferred to is wrong imo. 

Sex (gender), body weight, what food has been consumed and recent exercise to name just a few all contribute towards varying results, so the 2 pints and the majority of us would be over holds no water imo. 

The current law is just fine imo.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly no two people are the same.
The person who has a drink once in a blue moon will probably be close to the limit with two pints, at the other end someone who drinks regularly wonâ€™t be. 
Factor in age, body type, weight, metabolism, diet etc etc and no two people will have the same alcohol tolerance.


----------



## OnTour (Dec 3, 2017)

Not a fan tbh,  Nuneaton had a cracking scheme where you could invest your winnings into either pro shop or bar. But no bar levy ðŸ‘ 

Â£4 a pint for none members and 20% disco for members ðŸ¤” hardly a deal. As for drinking and driving ðŸ˜± are the police working at 10pm ?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 3, 2017)

Fish said:



			Everyoneâ€™s metabolism is different for various reasons so the simplistic 2 pints and your over would affect the majority of people as many have inferred to is wrong imo. 

Sex (gender), body weight, what food has been consumed and recent exercise to name just a few all contribute towards varying results, so the 2 pints and the majority of us would be over holds no water imo. 

The current law is just fine imo.
		
Click to expand...

So if people have different tolerances and not one single one of us knows exactly how we will react to even just one drink wouldnâ€™t it be safer for the limit to be reduced - there are plenty places that have very low drink drive limits - if only two pints can affect your reactions and people have caused accidents on two pints why not reduce it ? 

Do people really need to have that extra pint or drink before driving 

Would the change in law be that bad for people ? Surely changing the law to reduce the limit would help reduce the amount of people that are dangerous on the road ?


----------



## Imurg (Dec 3, 2017)

jobr1850 said:



			The person who has a drink once in a blue moon will probably be close to the limit with two pints, at the other end someone who drinks regularly wonâ€™t be. 
.
		
Click to expand...

Your reaction to alcohol is largely irrelevant.
It's how much alcohol in your system that matters - how much you regularly drink has no effect on that.
How quickly you metabolize the alcohol makes the difference.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 3, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So if people have different tolerances and not one single one of us knows exactly how we will react to even just one drink wouldnâ€™t it be safer for the limit to be reduced - there are plenty places that have very low drink drive limits - if only two pints can affect your reactions and people have caused accidents on two pints why not reduce it ? 

Do people really need to have that extra pint or drink before driving 

Would the change in law be that bad for people ? Surely changing the law to reduce the limit would help reduce the amount of people that are dangerous on the road ?
		
Click to expand...

Is the person 1% below the limit really much safer than the person 1% over?
Although being over the limit obviously isn't good, if you're just over it you're very marginally more dangerous than someone marginally under it.
The serial offenders 2-3-4 times over are the dangerous ones and no reduction in the limit is going to have an effect on them..
And, although over the limit, a serial drinker who is just over could be safer than an occasional drinker just under as the Wino may have built up a "resistance" to the effects.
Add into that then fact that you've actually got to try quite hard to get caught as there's simply not enough Police patrols to catch offenders


----------



## User2021 (Dec 3, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would the change in law be that bad for people ? Surely changing the law to reduce the limit would help reduce the amount of people that are dangerous on the road ?
		
Click to expand...

i actually donâ€™t think a change in the limit would have that much affect if in isolation. 
Thirty years ago driving home around closing time you would often see a Police car parked up waiting in certain spots 

now there just arenâ€™t those resources.

So until there are more officers to enforce the law whatever the limit then I donâ€™t think you will see a massive reduction.

Lets be honest unless someone reports a drink driver or they have an accident chances are they ainâ€™t getting caught as their arenâ€™t the Police officers out there. 
I am in no way condoning drink driving itâ€™s just an opinion.


----------



## Digger (Dec 3, 2017)

nairn1967 said:



			With so many clubs struggling these days in my opinion all clubs should adapt the bar levy policy, so many car park golfers ie those who play and take off right after their round.
		
Click to expand...

What, you mean those scoundrels who join a golf club, just to play golf, and may have a life outside of golf to get home to? Stone em to death I say!!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 3, 2017)

Blue in Munich said:



			Yes there are many variables but I suspect that two pints wouldn't put the majority of the golfing population over the limit.  I know what I base my opinion on, what do you base yours on? 

Click to expand...




Robster59 said:



			The reduced limits on alcohol level in Scotland effectively means one pint of a standard 4% abv beer will take you over the limit.
		
Click to expand...

Scottish limit is 50 milligrams of alcohol per whatever, in England it is 80. BiM, do the maths, as the Americans would say.



andyp1977 said:



			I got pulled 15 years ago having had 2 pints. The years ban was difficult to take. Almost lost my job. I thought Iâ€™d be fine after 2. Needless to say I donâ€™t have anything if Iâ€™m driving now. So yes, 2 pints can put you over.
		
Click to expand...

Real life proof. Your aggressive responses suggest you regularly have two pints and then drive. Maybe worth buying a breathalyser kit and try it next time you are in that situation. Better that than gambling.



Digger said:



			What, you mean those scoundrels who join a golf club, just to play golf, and may have a life outside of golf to get home to? Stone em to death I say!!
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. If people want to spend lots in the bar that is up to them. Equally if others don't that should also be a choice. Their money, their choice.


----------



## User20205 (Dec 3, 2017)

The bar at members clubs, in the main, needs to be subsided. Stay or donâ€™t stay but without a bar the club is no longer a members club. They canâ€™t survive as standalone entities. Lose the bar, lose the club, lets all go down the muni....imo


----------



## Twire (Dec 3, 2017)

I'm a member of a golf CLUB not a golf course and if paying a bar levy helps support that club then I don't have a problem with it. We have a Â£70 levy so not a massive amount in the great scheme of things. It does make smile when all the car park golfers come in moaning at Christmas time to use up their levy on over inflated bottles of wine.......reminds me of the folk that moan about pitch marks but rarely repair their own


----------



## GB72 (Dec 3, 2017)

What I dont get is why playing golf and going home is such a bad thing. There are hundreds of reasons why people cannot and do not hang around and if that is what they want then it is all fine with me. At my old club I found the bar boring, stuffy and not somewhere I wanted to spend my time. Used to go to my local with my playing partners. Â£50 bar levy was wasted most years and so resented.

Prefer where I am now and happily spend Â£10 at least most weeks 

Not sure that I go with the suggestionabout it allowing greater purchasing powers. What next, a pro shop levy so they can get balls in cheaper


----------



## Digger (Dec 3, 2017)

Twire said:



			I'm a member of a golf CLUB not a golf course and if paying a bar levy helps support that club then I don't have a problem with it. We have a Â£70 levy so not a massive amount in the great scheme of things. It does make smile when all the car park golfers come in moaning at Christmas time to use up their levy on over inflated bottles of wine.......reminds me of the folk that moan about pitch marks but rarely repair their own 

Click to expand...

Each to his own. I go to the golf course to play golf. I have the odd drink afterwards during the summer, but wouldn't be fussed if there was no bar. In fact, if the bar isn't breaking even, I see no reason why my golf subs should go towards a failing part of the business to keep a small minority happy. Far better to plough the money back into the course. Or for those that want a drink/off course social, why not outsource the bar?


----------



## DCB (Dec 3, 2017)

therod said:



			The bar at members clubs, in the main, needs to be subsided. Stay or donâ€™t stay but without a bar the club is no longer a members club. They canâ€™t survive as standalone entities. Lose the bar, lose the club, lets all go down the muni....imo
		
Click to expand...

Great summary.


Add to that the cost of stocking the bar, with lower turnover, the cost of your stock is going to rise as you are not buying as much from the supplier. It's a vicious circle. If you value your club, support it to the hilt, or .... It may not be there that much longer.


----------



## Digger (Dec 3, 2017)

DCB said:



			Great summary.


Add to that the cost of stocking the bar, with lower turnover, the cost of your stock is going to rise as you are not buying as much from the supplier. It's a vicious circle. If you value your club, support it to the hilt, or .... It may not be there that much longer.
		
Click to expand...

Are we saying a golf club can't be successful without a bar?


----------



## patricks148 (Dec 3, 2017)

Twire said:



			I'm a member of a golf CLUB not a golf course and if paying a bar levy helps support that club then I don't have a problem with it. We have a Â£70 levy so not a massive amount in the great scheme of things. It does make smile when all the car park golfers come in moaning at Christmas time to use up their levy on over inflated bottles of wine.......reminds me of the folk that moan about pitch marks but rarely repair their own 

Click to expand...

couldn't have put it better myself.:thup:


----------



## User20205 (Dec 3, 2017)

Digger said:



			Are we saying a golf club can't be successful without a bar?
		
Click to expand...

It canâ€™t be a club without a bar, just a course.

Look, I understand people need to shoot off, ive got young kids, but every single time? Having a soft drink/coffee/beer with your playing partners is one of the cornerstones of Golf. I wouldnâ€™t play regularly with someone who shot off every time. 

As for the bar being stuffy etc....take ownership, itâ€™s your bar as well. Ours used to be awful, like a library, but more multi tee starts, a pool table and a dart board have started to change it. If youâ€™re a member, make it work for you.


----------



## duncan mackie (Dec 3, 2017)

Interesting comments (apart from those on driving) but I think the underlying issue has been skirted round.
Putting aside general card systems and members discounts (these have convience, links to membership benefits and club stats elements but aren't strictly relevant to levy) the underlying issue is in knowing you have the income to support the existence of a bar/catering facility, and for what hours and services. As such they were originally the preserve of members clubs where catering isn't run at a profit (pointless) and staffing costs are a significant element of the proposition. Many, many, of these clubs have gone over to very basic, focused, services (coffee machine in the clubhouse is all you can get before 1100 for example) and levies were designed to ensure catering levels that were provided didn't make a loss.
Issues about the legality of aspects generally caused them to fall away a little; despite these having been created by the introduction of them in the wider 'club's ' categories where they were seen as a route to increased profits ie another marginal profit source to add to the membership package.
In my view they are generally a good thing if done for the right reason - for many clubs the alternative is the complete removal of all catering facilities and, of course, they only come in because the majority of the club's membership vote that way! Those against always have a choice.
Is a golf club without any catering facilities still a club is an interesting philosophical question, but I wouldn't want to be a member at one and have always found it strange turning up to those with an empty clubhouse and no staff!


----------



## Digger (Dec 3, 2017)

therod said:



			It canâ€™t be a club without a bar, just a course.
*
Really? Can you define a club then? I ask because there are plenty of photographic clubs up and down the country with no bar.*

Look, I understand people need to shoot off, ive got young kids, but every single time? Having a soft drink/coffee/beer with your playing partners is one of the cornerstones of Golf. I wouldnâ€™t play regularly with someone who shot off every time.
*
 What if it's not a need? What if they actually want to ' shoot off'?*

Click to expand...

I'm playing devils advocate slightly as I do use our clubs facilities, but I don't want to be told I 'Should'.


----------



## User20205 (Dec 3, 2017)

Digger said:



			I'm playing devils advocate slightly as I do use our clubs facilities, but I don't want to be told I 'Should'.
		
Click to expand...

Do what you want, no should about it, but being a member of a golf club comes with certain responsibilities, all of which are made clear upon joining. Join or donâ€™t join a club with a levy. Go to the AGM and change it? 

Iâ€™m not going down the route of comparing spurious, tenuous â€˜otherâ€™ clubs to a golf club. A strip club, a chess club, a club biscuit.....except to say that a photography club doesnâ€™t need the same infrastructure as a golf club. 

Golf is many things to many people, take/give to it what you need, but not wanting to stay and be sociable with the fellas youâ€™ve spent 4hrs with is odd IMO. The world must be a very scary place?

Even Homer stays for a pint


----------



## Blue in Munich (Dec 3, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Scottish limit is 50 milligrams of alcohol per whatever, in England it is 80. BiM, do the maths, as the Americans would say.
		
Click to expand...

I did the maths for 30 years, thanks, so if it's all the same to you I'll stick with what I found out during that rather than a couple of posts off a golf forum. :thup:  

The actual limit is pretty irrelevant if there are no resources to enforce it.


----------



## Break90 (Dec 3, 2017)

I'd say that on a normal saturday and wednesday(comp days), around 250 people play across our two courses, sundays a similar number most of the year, with other weekdays being relatively quiet (lets say 100-120 players)

Using saturdays as an example, in my experience around 75-80% of golfers go into the clubhouse afterwards. We have a large lounge bar, spike bar and patio, all recently renovated with new furniture, lighting etc, and massive glass frontage overlooking the course. Especially during the summer its a very popular place. Most groups stay for drinks and lunch (or snacks, coffee and cake etc)

I personally spend around 50 quid per month, and I'd say I'm pretty typical in that within the group of 12 that I play in each week. There will be a large number of people who don't spend anywhere near this, and a smaller number that drink in there all weekend and spend a considerably larger amount. 

The bottom line is the catering and bar just about breaks even, and they do a fantastic job. The quality of the offering is top notch, the staff are great, and the event catering (matches, social events etc) is quality. 

Our club has around 1400 members , of which around 1000 fall into the 7 day membership across both men and women. 

Adding the 5 day members (around 300), the 50 pound bar levy realises somewhere in the region of 65k each year. If cancelled, this equates to around 60 full membership fees. It's a large amount of money to replace, or more accurately, to not have in the bank at the beginning of the membership year to aid budgeting and forecasting etc. 

For me it's a part of being a member. You get a discount so it's a win win as far as I'm concerned. In my 4 years as a member I honestly can't remember a single person questioning the bar levy.


----------



## HampshireHog (Dec 3, 2017)

We have a non-refundable Levy of Â£150 usable in the Bar, Halfway Hut and for Comp entries.  Frankly, even playing only once a week if I canâ€™t spend that at least 3-4 times over Iâ€™d be staggered.  There are occasions when I canâ€™t stay for a drink after a round but as a rule I do, and I would be less inclined to play with members who typically prefer to play and go.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 3, 2017)

How many have left the club (in all honesty) knowing they have maybe have had one too many and how many have know fellow members that have left definitely worse for wear. What do you do especially in the latter case. Playing devils advocate slightly, and a scenario I've come across. what happens if someone calls the police who are conveniently waiting outside the club, they get tested and pass the test. Word has a way of getting out and in this case the law decided the driver was fit so would you really risk being ostracised in the club?


----------



## NorfolkShaun (Dec 3, 2017)

I nearly always stop for a drink, sadly we are tied to a hotel so really limited 'Club' atmosphere in the bar.

Personally i don't drink alcohol after a round and drive, I have a 30 min drive and could not face losing my license.

Club i used to be at some of the gents would play and then sit drinking in the bar most of the afternoon. No idea how they got home.

Would have no issue with a bar levy at a golf club, as mentioned part of the club.


----------



## OnTour (Dec 3, 2017)

Find out how much the bar manager gets paid and staff then justify why you need to cough up extra to keep them in a job. 

Â£28,000 for manager alone, sorry but unless the bar justifies it by paying its way then scrap it. Install self service or honesty bar like north Warwickshire have ðŸ‘ 

Sunday at ncc the famous Sullivan speed drinkers,  keeping the bar manager in a job. Nobody mention smashing into the front gate ðŸ¤”  

Drinking is  overrated, golf is about the course. The pub is the drinking club.


----------



## IanM (Dec 3, 2017)

Ours is Â£50... and that gets discounted drinks... We always go in the bar after for a drink and some lunch...and the drink doesnt mean too many if driving

Surely you can manage a pound a week in the club?


----------



## mikejohnchapman (Dec 4, 2017)

Our is Â£25 (I think) and we also get a 10% discount.

Tends to go on buying the teas after a game so quickly used up.

Would be happy for it to be higher if it helped maintain the facility as there's nothing worse than playing somewhere that doesn't do food after 3 o'clock and the clubhouse is morgue when you go in for a drink afterwards.


----------



## DaveR (Dec 4, 2017)

It's pretty simple really. A golf club needs to raise x pounds a year to survive so people either spend money in the bar or the fees go up. 

I know which I would rather do


----------



## Rumpokid (Dec 29, 2017)

Found this thread interesting.Current club is looking at bringing in Â£300 bar levy for new members..Â£100 put on bar card for subsequent 3 years.No catering facilities in place, to cut a long story short replacing the established caterer, who left over a year ago has been poorly handled, plus i think the club's hand are tied has to how they solve this.San Miguel about Â£4.10  a pint (about Â£3.70 with discount).No sky and a more often than not empty clubhouse........Couple of other points, fees gone up Â£15,(gone up every year), also introducing discounted membership if you are 34 and under instead of current 25 years an under..Some of whom are on much better salaries than some of the mid aged members....Lots of members i know are unhappy about this (and leaving), yet a newly formed 'marketing team'.lol, and other powers that be see this as the way forward...We'll see eh..


----------



## dewsweeper (Dec 29, 2017)

I think  if you are a member of a club all members should contribute to all the facilities at the club, even the ones they do not use.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 29, 2017)

dewsweeper said:



			I think  if you are a member of a club all members should contribute to all the facilities at the club, even the ones they do not use.
		
Click to expand...

You do contribute, in your membership fees.


----------



## guest100718 (Dec 29, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You do contribute, in your membership fees.
		
Click to expand...

yeah I thought that's what 1k a year was for. 
I've  no time for a bar levy.


----------



## Rumpokid (Dec 29, 2017)

I'm with above here..Think my club is misguided at mo in the way they are going about all this.


----------



## dewsweeper (Dec 29, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You do contribute, in your membership fees.
		
Click to expand...

You may well be correct
But in my opinion ,you join a club and abide by its rules and constitution.
If they don't suit your requirements seek another club.
Just an opinion ,not earth shattering important.


----------



## Digger (Dec 29, 2017)

Rumpokid said:



			Found this thread interesting.Current club is looking at bringing in Â£300 bar levy for new members..Â£100 put on bar card for subsequent 3 years.No catering facilities in place, to cut a long story short replacing the established caterer, who left over a year ago has been poorly handled, plus i think the club's hand are tied has to how they solve this.San Miguel about Â£4.10  a pint (about Â£3.70 with discount).No sky and a more often than not empty clubhouse........Couple of other points, fees gone up Â£15,(gone up every year), also introducing discounted membership if you are 34 and under instead of current 25 years an under..Some of whom are on much better salaries than some of the mid aged members....Lots of members i know are unhappy about this (and leaving), yet a newly formed 'marketing team'.lol, and other powers that be see this as the way forward...We'll see eh..
		
Click to expand...

I'm out.


----------



## road2ruin (Dec 29, 2017)

When it comes to bar levyâ€™s I can see both sides. 

My clubs is Â£125 and for the first 5 years of membership this wasnâ€™t an issue. I didnâ€™t have kids and so always had a pint and breakfast after a round. The club offer 10% discount and Iâ€™d usually stop at the club at least once or twice a week on top
of the weekend and would end up topping up the card continuously across the year. 

Now I have children itâ€™s hard enough getting out for golf let alone staying after so I do find Iâ€™m one of the golfers that has to disappear straight off as itâ€™s now worth the grief I get from domestic management if I get home an hour later due to time in the bar. For this reason the Â£125 levy stays largely unspent.


----------



## NWJocko (Dec 29, 2017)

Rumpokid said:



			also introducing discounted membership if you are 34 and under instead of current 25 years an under..Some of whom are on much better salaries than some of the mid aged members....Lots of members i know are unhappy about this (and leaving), yet a newly formed 'marketing team'.lol, and other powers that be see this as the way forward...We'll see eh..
		
Click to expand...

Not knowledgeable enough to comment on the other points but always makes me wonder this point above.  If you were happy with the "deal" you got when you joined then why do you care what other people are paying?

I have absolutely zero idea about which of my playing friends are on intermediate memberships, maybe joined as couples so (I think) pay slightly less joining fee etc as I'm happy with what I pay (and I get value for money from that).  Unless everyone at your club earns exactly the same then there is zero relevance in what salary people earn (I have friends who earn much more and much less than me but we pay the same).

Why are the members unhappy?  Is it that they feel what they are paying is over the odds (in which case should probably leave), or is it just green eyed monster stuff?


----------



## Rumpokid (Dec 30, 2017)

Green eyed monster stuff lol. Think you interpreted what I wrote in your own view. You were right at first. Maybe not knowledgable enough.


----------



## Crazyface (Dec 30, 2017)

Rumpokid said:



			Couple of other points, fees gone up Â£15,(gone up every year),* also introducing discounted membership if you are 34 and under *instead of current 25 years an under..Some of whom are on much better salaries than some of the mid aged members....Lots of members i know are unhappy about this (and leaving), yet a newly formed 'marketing team'.lol, and other powers that be see this as the way forward...We'll see eh..
		
Click to expand...

I'd be waving goodbye at this.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2017)

Crazyface said:



			I'd be waving goodbye at this.
		
Click to expand...

Why ? 
Introducing reduced fees for under 30â€™s etc with them going back up on a step level has allowed a lot of under 30â€™s to join clubs and play the game - for us it allowed our under 30 level to go from 2/3 people to just over 80 , all still members and we still have a waiting list


----------



## NWJocko (Dec 30, 2017)

Rumpokid said:



			Green eyed monster stuff lol. Think you interpreted what I wrote in your own view. You were right at first. Maybe not knowledgable enough.
		
Click to expand...

You're missing my point TBF, I haven't interpreted anything I'm asking a question :thup:

Well why are people leaving because other members are paying less? What difference does it make to them?


----------



## louise_a (Dec 30, 2017)

We introduced a discounted system for under 35s a couple of years ago, it didn't make lots of older members leave.

On the subject of levies, we don't have one but we do have bar cards that are used to get the members discount on drinks.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 31, 2017)

I can understand a discounted membership scheme and we run discounted fees up to 35 years of age. Hasn't impacted membership and we only operate on level of discount on the bar car across the membership. I don't agree with the scheme all the way to 35 years of age and believe those from 30-35 should be in a position to pay full fees, but I can't change the situation and just get on with it.


----------



## Hobbit (Dec 31, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I can understand a discounted membership scheme and we run discounted fees up to 35 years of age. Hasn't impacted membership and we only operate on level of discount on the bar car across the membership. I don't agree with the scheme all the way to 35 years of age and believe those from 30-35 should be in a position to pay full fees, but I can't change the situation and just get on with it.
		
Click to expand...

To a large extent I think discounted memberships are a sop. How many of those below 34 bleat they can't afford the fees but both them and their partner have a car and holiday abroad?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 31, 2017)

Really canâ€™t see the issue for under 34yr olds ,
is it financial or lack of time or both ?
I am sure everyone could make a case why they should get a discount.
So a 33yr old shift worker can play every day 
A 36 yr old can only play sat as he works days but he pays more because of his age !
I thought this was made illegal with sexism you should not discriminate on grounds of sex , religion or age if you use the club you should pay the fees.

Imagine going into a pub and paying for your pint then a 32 yr old orders the same as you but pays less should you say anything.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 1, 2018)

NWJocko said:



			Not knowledgeable enough to comment on the other points but always makes me wonder this point above.  If you were happy with the "deal" you got when you joined then why do you care what other people are paying?

I have absolutely zero idea about which of my playing friends are on intermediate memberships, maybe joined as couples so (I think) pay slightly less joining fee etc as I'm happy with what I pay (and I get value for money from that).  Unless everyone at your club earns exactly the same then there is zero relevance in what salary people earn (I have friends who earn much more and much less than me but we pay the same).

Why are the members unhappy?  Is it that they feel what they are paying is over the odds (in which case should probably leave), or is it just green eyed monster stuff?
		
Click to expand...

If some new members get membership at an amount less than I pay - and if I am comfortable paying what I do - then rather than being resentful towards these members I am grateful for their memberships subs keeping mine down.  The complaint is symptomatic of what is in my view that we are becoming rather too much of an envious and resentful society these days.  

Better I say for all if we just accepted what we have and are comfortable with, rather than worrying about what others have - I take the view that that is their good fortune rather than my misfortune.


----------



## Green Bay Hacker (Jan 1, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			If some new members get membership at an amount less than I pay - and if I am comfortable paying what I do - then rather than being resentful towards these members I am grateful for their memberships subs keeping mine down.  The complaint is symptomatic of what is in my view that we are becoming rather too much of an envious and resentful society these days.  

Better I say for all if we just accepted what we have and are comfortable with, rather than worrying about what others have - I take the view that that is their good fortune rather than my misfortune.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on with that. Unfortunately not everyone has that outlook on life.


----------



## PNWokingham (Jan 1, 2018)

I agree with Nick and some of the other comments. A golf course is a golf course but a GOLF CLUB is more than just the golf - it is a social place where people play golf and enjoy the company of other members in the bar etc. At our place, the roll up is every day until 10.30 - people meet in the bar and put their names down with the pro who may be there or whoever is organising - many people have drink/breakfast etc. Then the fourballs go out and they all stop in the halfway hut - and nearly everyone goes into the bar afterwards for lots of piss-taking and banter - sport will be on the tv etc. It is a good vibe and i believe that you need to support the club by spending in the bar/restaurant


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 1, 2018)

PNWokingham said:



			I agree with Nick and some of the other comments. A golf course is a golf course but a GOLF CLUB is more than just the golf - it is a social place where people play golf and enjoy the company of other members in the bar etc. At our place, the roll up is every day until 10.30 - people meet in the bar and put their names down with the pro who may be there or whoever is organising - many people have drink/breakfast etc. Then the fourballs go out and they all stop in the halfway hut - and nearly everyone goes into the bar afterwards for lots of piss-taking and banter - sport will be on the tv etc. It is a good vibe and i believe that you need to support the club by spending in the bar/restaurant
		
Click to expand...

Can't argue with that and exactly what a good club should be about. Our roll ups are equally as fierce in terms of the on course banter and the weekend ones I play in are particularly savage back in the 19th but all done in good humour. Great blokes to play with and enjoy a bite and a beer with


----------

