# Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 7, 2014)

I'll open a new post if I may as I was not able to make a simple point on this matter before the thread was closed.  

I was taught from a young age by some gnarled old Glasgow muni golfers that it is best and good etiquette to stand facing a player teeing off.  And so that is what I do when others are teeing off - unless they ask me to move of course.  And for *me* I like the same.  I won't always ask a player to move if they are standing behind me - though I might feel a little uncomfortable as I can't see what they are up to or maybe about to do (that might cause me a distraction mid-swing).  But I really don't like someone standing a the back of the tee looking down the fairway as I am about to tee off.  Maybe that's just me.  They are in my peripheral vision - I don't want them there, and so I *will* usually ask them to move.  

All the subsequent discussion about what pros put up with when teeing off on the other thread was 'besides the point' as far as my post that seemed to kick it off was concerned.

If you think you can stand wherever you want in vicinity to me when I am playing then that is entirely up to you - but be aware that I will ask you to move if I don;t like where you stand and will be well p*****d off with you if you don't.  Basic golfing etiquette and respect for your fellow golfers.

Mods - you can now close this if you wish now that I have clarified my statement.

Ta


----------



## pbrown7582 (Jan 7, 2014)

this is exactly how i was taught and have passed on to my nephews, and will do to the lad when hes starts having a go.


----------



## dotty001 (Jan 7, 2014)

Christ ! Really !! I couldn't give a cahoot! Stand up and tw@t it


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

Spot on Hogan.
The only time it is correct to stand behind someone is when it is into a setting sun to follow their ball flight.
After asking your FC of course.

If someone stands behind me I would consider them to be a beginner who has yet to learn the game. They would soon be told to shift.


----------



## john0 (Jan 7, 2014)

This thread comes close to beating the 'How do you remove the flag' thread


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Jan 7, 2014)

Hmmm, I got taught when I started (not that long ago), that in front of, but still slightly behind the person is a good idea.

If 12 o clock on the clock face is directly in front of the person as they tee off, I would stand a couple of metres away (shadow allowing) at about 1.30 on the clock face. Maybe I'll move to 1 o clock. Or 1.15. If they complain, I guess I could move to 12.50.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 7, 2014)

I will generally stand on the side of the tee that you approach it from which means you would either be facing towards me or away from me depending on the hole, I think others at our place generally do the same. I give what I consider to be plenty of space to the player playing and have never been told to move or had to ask someone to move. As long as they are quiet and not moving around I don't care or even notice where they are as my focus is on the shot, not who might be standing where.


----------



## guest100718 (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Spot on Hogan.
The only time it is correct to stand behind someone is when it is into a setting sun to follow their ball flight.
After asking your FC of course.

If someone stands behind me I would consider them to be a beginner who has yet to learn the game. They would soon be told to shift.
		
Click to expand...

When you say behind I take it you mean looking down the line? I am OK with them to stand behind my back as it were depending what way we are facing off the teee. Just not in my peripheral vission.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 7, 2014)

dotty001 said:



			Christ ! Really !! I couldn't give a cahoot! Stand up and tw@t it
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough - but be aware that your playing partners may not feel the same or as comfortable.  So when *they *are playing a shot, your responsibility is to them - not you.


----------



## bladeplayer (Jan 7, 2014)

so long as you dont move suddenly when im swinging i dont mind where you are .. if your too close directly behind me i normally step back from the ball an start a practice swing , that will get people to step to one side ..

If someone asked me to move i would no problemo tho .. got a bit of as pain one day playing with a leftie & a rightie .. had to move to different side of box after one had played .. not a problem tho ..


----------



## davidy233 (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Spot on Hogan.
The only time it is correct to stand behind someone is when it is into a setting sun to follow their ball flight.
After asking your FC of course.

If someone stands behind me I would consider them to be a beginner who has yet to learn the game. They would soon be told to shift.
		
Click to expand...

Can't believe anyone thinks this is important.

How about when you are hitting a shot from the fairway - do you expect your playing partners to stand opposite you then?


----------



## guest100718 (Jan 7, 2014)

john0 said:



			This thread comes close to beating the 'How do you remove the flag' thread 

Click to expand...

Maybe, but its also quite annoying when you are readying to tee off and another golfer wanders over and stands looking down your line.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 7, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Maybe, but its also quite annoying when you are readying to tee off and another golfer wanders over and stands looking down your line.
		
Click to expand...

Wouldn't bother me in the slightest.


----------



## bladeplayer (Jan 7, 2014)

davidy233 said:



			Can't believe anyone thinks this is important.
		
Click to expand...

Im the opposite , I think its very important , its as easy to stand out of someones way as in a place they are not comfortable with ..


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

bladeplayer said:



			so long as you dont move suddenly when im swinging i dont mind where you are .. if your too close directly behind me i normally step back from the ball an start a practice swing , that will get people to step to one side ..

If someone asked me to move i would no problemo tho .. got a bit of as pain one day playing with a leftie & a rightie .. had to move to different side of box after one had played .. not a problem tho ..
		
Click to expand...

The sounds good to me - stand wherever you like just keep quiet/still. 

Normally I stand by my bag if it's close to the tee or dependent on the sun stand at the back of the tee to the left or right depending on the player.


----------



## john0 (Jan 7, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Maybe, but its also quite annoying when you are readying to tee off and another golfer wanders over and stands looking down your line.
		
Click to expand...

Can't see why it is relevant where they are standing, as long as they are still and quiet.  After all your supposed to be keeping your eye on the ball while playing your shot so you shouldnt see them whether they are in front, behind or to the side.


----------



## Alex1975 (Jan 7, 2014)

I totally agree with the OP with one caveat, Directly facing or directly behind if the tee box dictates, basically not in my vision.

My father in law is one of them who stands right in the wrong place.

If sun is in the face and we are helping one another spot the ball we stand where ever is best for ball spotting.


----------



## guest100718 (Jan 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The sounds good to me - stand wherever you like *just keep quiet/still*. 

Normally I stand by my bag if it's close to the tee or dependent on the sun stand at the back of the tee to the left or right depending on the player.
		
Click to expand...

It really should be that easy. But often isnt.


----------



## davidy233 (Jan 7, 2014)

bladeplayer said:



			Im the opposite , I think its very important , its as easy to stand out of someones way as in a place they are not comfortable with ..
		
Click to expand...

I'm not going to stand anywhere a fellow competitor is uncomfortable with - I'll move if they want too - just can't see why where someone stands has to be so rigid in some peoples minds.

When we play mixed opens I get annoyed with my missus when she rigidly stands opposite the person hitting the ball from their fairway/rough shots - in that situation you should be on your way to your own ball so you are ready to play as soon as they've hit their shot - she says that's what all the ladies do.


----------



## dotty001 (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Fair enough - but be aware that your playing partners may not feel the same or as comfortable.  So when *they *are playing a shot, your responsibility is to them - not you.
		
Click to expand...

So on the 1st tee I should ask where they want me to stand , come on , I show courtesy , I don't move or talk , or stand behind surely that's enough , maybe your finicky way would be off putting to me , therefore putting me off my game ?


----------



## bladeplayer (Jan 7, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			It really should be that easy. But often isnt.
		
Click to expand...


True , mind you i dont come across it often , talking is thing i would encounter most , but again if your whispering away i dont care , i just block it out , so long as you dont just start as i swing .. that is a pain


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 7, 2014)

Different strokes for different roles as they say. I'm in the group that doesn't care where others stand as long as I have room to swing. But I do tend to stand at the back of the teeing area looking down the fairway while my partners hit. Didn't realise this was a problem as never been asked to move but would have no problem with it if someone asked me to move to somewhere else.


----------



## bladeplayer (Jan 7, 2014)

davidy233 said:



			I'm not going to stand anywhere a fellow competitor is uncomfortable with - I'll move if they want too - just can't see why where someone stands has to be so rigid in some peoples minds.

When we play mixed opens I get annoyed with my missus when she rigidly stands opposite the person hitting the ball from their fairway/rough shots - in that situation you should be on your way to your own ball so you are ready to play as soon as they've hit their shot - she says that's what all the ladies do.

Click to expand...


Very true couldnt agrue with any of that ..

As for the highlighted bit , had to hand a scorecard over on the 5th hole one day for a comment just like that regarding a rule , head scratcher


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 7, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			Different strokes for different roles as they say. I'm in the group that doesn't care where others stand as long as I have room to swing. But I do tend to stand at the back of the teeing area looking down the fairway while my partners hit. Didn't realise this was a problem as never been asked to move but would have no problem with it if someone asked me to move to somewhere else.
		
Click to expand...

This.

If you want me to see where your ball went, this is the best place. If you want me to move, fine, but I may not be able to help much.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

This is a generation thread, old school pointing out what is just plain good golfing manners, you are giving thought and respect to your playing partners.
In my day virtually everyone did that.

Nowadays it seems to be all about MEEEEEEEEE.[or my group]
Don't wave faster players through, yell at the top of your voice across two fairways, stand on the green for a 2 minute discussion after the last person has holed out, etc etc.


----------



## bladeplayer (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



This is a generation thread, old school pointing out what is just plain good golfing manners, you are giving thought and respect to your playing partners.
In my day virtually everyone did that.

Nowadays it seems to be all about MEEEEEEEEE.[or my group]
Don't wave faster players through, yell at the top of your voice across two fairways, stand on the green for a 2 minute discussion after the last person has holed out, etc etc.
		
Click to expand...


Doon me old mucker thats a bit sweeping and a bit wrong if i may say so .. im mid 40's i play with juniors and older member , higher and lower handicaps but i dont think i could section it off by  generation mate.. 
Some of it may be down to inexperience , most of it down to awareness and respect and neither of these can be attributed to age in my opinion


----------



## davidy233 (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			This is a generation thread, old school pointing out what is just plain good golfing manners, you are giving thought and respect to your playing partners.
In my day virtually everyone did that.

Nowadays it seems to be all about MEEEEEEEEE.[or my group]
Don't wave faster players through, yell at the top of your voice across two fairways, stand on the green for a 2 minute discussion after the last person has holed out, etc etc.
		
Click to expand...

I'm 55 so it's not exactly old school v young bucks - quiet and still are what matter - I don't see any evidence of younger people being less polite or aware of etiquette at my place (or indeed anywhere I've played in Scotland)

So to my point about where do you stand for their next shot - when they are hitting from fairway/rough? opposite them again?


----------



## ArnoldArmChewer (Jan 7, 2014)

My vision although good is quite 'slow', to enable me to see my opponents/partners ball well I need to be behind the ball, I ALWAYS ask my opponent if this is OK prior to taking up position, if he has a problem with it that's fine and I move but explain that I might not spot his ball quite so easily.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			This is a generation thread, old school pointing out what is just plain good golfing manners, you are giving thought and respect to your playing partners.
In my day virtually everyone did that.

Nowadays it seems to be all about MEEEEEEEEE.[or my group]
Don't wave faster players through, yell at the top of your voice across two fairways, stand on the green for a 2 minute discussion after the last person has holed out, etc etc.
		
Click to expand...


That's a big sweeping statement 

Seen the older generation do a lot of what you suggest - if anything they are the worst at not letting people through and taking their time but then I see younger people do it.


----------



## jimbob.someroo (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			This is a generation thread, old school pointing out what is just plain good golfing manners, you are giving thought and respect to your playing partners.
In my day virtually everyone did that.

Nowadays it seems to be all about MEEEEEEEEE.[or my group]
Don't wave faster players through, yell at the top of your voice across two fairways, stand on the green for a 2 minute discussion after the last person has holed out, etc etc.
		
Click to expand...

I think it depends when you took up the game, and who taught it you. I started when I was much younger and was shown the ropes by adults as mentioned above. 99% of the time I stand in the same place as you, as I was taught to by the grumpy old gits at my club growing up.

That said, I don't think it is the biggest thing in the world. If you aren't comfortable with where someone is stood, ask them to move, simple. People getting het up about things like this is the sort of thing which gives golf a stuffy name and potentially puts people off when they're starting the game. 

Suggest to them politely where you'd rather they stand if they are somewhere which is uncomfortable, or put up with it and hit your shot. Either way, ranting on a golf forum about people being rude or self centered or ignorant etc aint solving all that much.


----------



## john0 (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			This is a generation thread, old school pointing out what is just plain good golfing manners, you are giving thought and respect to your playing partners.
In my day virtually everyone did that.

Nowadays it seems to be all about MEEEEEEEEE.[or my group]
Don't wave faster players through, yell at the top of your voice across two fairways, stand on the green for a 2 minute discussion after the last person has holed out, etc etc.
		
Click to expand...

Biggest load of bollox I have read in ages......and I read all Homer's posts!


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



*This is a generation thread, old school pointing out what is just plain good golfing manners, you are giving thought and respect to your playing partners.
In my day virtually everyone did that.*

Nowadays it seems to be all about MEEEEEEEEE.[or my group]
Don't wave faster players through, yell at the top of your voice across two fairways, stand on the green for a 2 minute discussion after the last person has holed out, etc etc.
		
Click to expand...

Really? So unless you stand facing the player teeing off you are not showing respect to him? That's just nonsense. No-one has ever told me where I should stand, just to be quiet, still and not too close. If the player asks me to move I'll move, but it's never happened yet.


----------



## brendy (Jan 7, 2014)

I really couldnt care where people stand, Im a handicap golfer who can mis-hit  it no matter if there is noise, silence or both.
I think standing opposite me is more likely to distract though as it is in your periphery where behind is out of sight.


----------



## patricks148 (Jan 7, 2014)

I don't care where anyone stands, i'm concentrating on the ball and only the ball.

I 'm even used to guys talking all the way though as well, as one of my playing partners does this the whole way around anyway


----------



## the smiling assassin (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			This is a generation thread, old school pointing out what is just plain good golfing manners, you are giving thought and respect to your playing partners.
In my day virtually everyone did that.

Nowadays it seems to be all about MEEEEEEEEE.[or my group]
Don't wave faster players through, yell at the top of your voice across two fairways, stand on the green for a 2 minute discussion after the last person has holed out, etc etc.
		
Click to expand...

nonsense. the old school are every bit as bad with their ettiquette as the new school, or is that because the new school are teaching them bad habits...


----------



## In_The_Rough (Jan 7, 2014)

john0 said:



			Biggest load of bollox I have read in ages......and I read all Homer's posts!
		
Click to expand...

I agree it seems a bitter twisted rant to me by someone who craves a return to the 'good old days' when it was how I like it. No generation is any worse than the other. Personally I do not like people standing in my line of sight but would kick up a stink about it


----------



## john0 (Jan 7, 2014)

The next thing you know people will be saying that they don't like people spitting on the course either............


----------



## jimbob.someroo (Jan 7, 2014)

the smiling assassin said:



			nonsense. the old school are every bit as bad with their ettiquette as the new school, or is that because the new school are teaching them bad habits...

Click to expand...

Would agree with this. There isn't one group in particular that are horrendously worse than others.

That said, I've been let through by a hell of lot more people under the age of 60 than I have those over.


----------



## El Bandito (Jan 7, 2014)

Blimey! I was never taught to stand anywhere...my default is to keep very still wherever I am. I have a regular partner who likes me to stand behind his line as my eyesight is pretty good and his is pretty poor. Generally - I am not bothered where others stand, but if they are a little close this can put me off. If it does, I just ask them to move. No stress.


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 7, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			When you say behind I take it you mean looking down the line? I am OK with them to stand behind my back as it were depending what way we are facing off the teee. Just not in my peripheral vision.
		
Click to expand...

My feelings exactly, though it may be a lack of concentration on my part. 
 My peripheral vision seems to be watching and waiting for any movement while I'm making a shot.


----------



## mefromhere (Jan 7, 2014)

I stand wherever the walk from the green to the next tee takes you. If you get put off by somebody standing in the wrong place then I think you're just looking for excuses before you've even swung. Some people's confidence must be very low off the tee for this to matter


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

the smiling assassin said:



			nonsense. the old school are every bit as bad with their ettiquette as the new school, or is that because the new school are teaching them bad habits...

Click to expand...

By old school I mean golfers who have been playing since they were youngsters not the jonny come lately seniors who I will agree are probably the worst offenders.


----------



## Birchy (Jan 7, 2014)

Its much better when playing partners stand totally out of your view when you are taking a shot imo. That leaves the player taking the shot alone with it.

I think people standing directly facing somebody teeing off is insane and much more likely to distract the player. I cant see how standing in a players view makes any sense at all.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			By old school I mean golfers who have been playing since they were youngsters not the jonny come lately seniors who I will agree are probably the worst offenders.
		
Click to expand...


The worst offender I have come across is a guy who has been a member of the club for over 40 years - poor attitude on a golf course


----------



## cleanstrike (Jan 7, 2014)

Etiquette has nothing to do with it. I'll stand wherever I feel safe. I don't have any intention of being assaulted by a stray golf ball and my safety is far more important than any amount of etiquette you might care to mention so if that means standing behind someone as they swing ... then so be it.


----------



## Johnny Bravo (Jan 7, 2014)

Birchy said:



			Its much better when playing partners stand totally out of your view when you are taking a shot imo. That leaves the player taking the shot alone with it.

I think people standing directly facing somebody teeing off is insane and much more likely to distract the player. I cant see how standing in a players view makes any sense at all.
		
Click to expand...

Remember that when your are addressing the ball you are not looking directly in front of you or at least most folk will not as they should have picked a line and then should be only looking at the ball so I agree with the OP and as with most of the others who have agreed with him.


----------



## Slab (Jan 7, 2014)

Methinks a thread is called for where we discuss getting fitted for a standing position while waiting to tee-off !!

_(I believe an incorrect stance position can reduce your FC's driving distance by up to 4 yards) _


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

Slab said:



			Methinks a thread is called for where we discuss getting fitted for a standing position while waiting to tee-off !!

_(I believe an incorrect stance position can reduce your FC's driving distance by up to 4 yards) _

Click to expand...


Average driving distance down to 350 yards then


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 7, 2014)

Johnny Bravo said:



			Remember that when your are addressing the ball you are not looking directly in front of you or at least most folk will not as they should have picked a line and then should be only looking at the ball so I agree with the OP and as with most of the others who have agreed with him.
		
Click to expand...

The OP talks about peripheral vision, surely it is more likely for someone to catch your eye if they are standing in front of you than behind?

Personally I don't think this is anything to do with peripheral vision, etiquette, manners or anything else, some people are obviously just need to be a little bit less concerned about where people are standing and a little bit more concerned about the shot in hand.


----------



## EuanRoss (Jan 7, 2014)

Walk to tee, stand on near side of it, whether that be at the back of or facing partners, stand up, hit ball, repeat.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 7, 2014)

One of my regularly playing partners is left handed, If I were playing in a 4 ball with him and 2 other right handed players, I was last off and my left handed friend was second, are the advocates for standing facing the player playing suggesting that I stand facing the first player to play, cross the tee box so as to be facing my left handed friend when he plays, cross back across the tee box to face our 3rd member and then finally tee off myself?


----------



## Robobum (Jan 7, 2014)

There's no right place to stand - a few wrong ones, obviously.

I'm thinking of 4 tee boxes at my club that, to stand facing the person teeing off, would either involve falling down a bank or trampling a flower bed or two. If they are left handed, we'll be vaulting the Boundary fence!!


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 7, 2014)

lol, simply give a brother some room to swing.   if he insists, move.


----------



## Imurg (Jan 7, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			One of my regularly playing partners is left handed, If I were playing in a 4 ball with him and 2 other right handed players, I was last off and my left handed friend was second, are the advocates for standing facing the player playing suggesting that I stand facing the first player to play, cross the tee box so as to be facing my left handed friend when he plays, cross back across the tee box to face our 3rd member and then finally tee off myself?
		
Click to expand...

Just think of all the extra calories you'd burn off.........

Stand by the tee box, quiet, still and let the guy get on with it.
If you're looking for people standing close by you're not looking at the ball - do tee markers get in the way...?


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 7, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Just think of all the extra calories you'd burn off.........

Stand by the tee box, quiet, still and let the guy get on with it.
If you're looking for people standing close by you're not looking at the ball - do tee markers get in the way...?
		
Click to expand...

And all the slow play threads I would be the subject of


----------



## guest100718 (Jan 7, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			One of my regularly playing partners is left handed, If I were playing in a 4 ball with him and 2 other right handed players, I was last off and my left handed friend was second, are the advocates for standing facing the player playing suggesting that I stand facing the first player to play, cross the tee box so as to be facing my left handed friend when he plays, cross back across the tee box to face our 3rd member and then finally tee off myself?
		
Click to expand...

Despite your simplistic view of just step up and hit it, there clearly is a strong feeling about where others should or shouldnt stand. My own feelings are when someone pulls a club and steps on to the  tee, all moving about and talking should stop.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 7, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			My own feelings are when someone pulls a club and steps on to the  tee, all moving about and talking should stop.
		
Click to expand...

While I agree with this in principle I think it does need the caveat that with some of the pre-shot routines I've seen I could probably start reading War and Peace out loud when a player pulls his club out of the bag and would have finished it before he was ready to hit the ball.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 7, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Despite your simplistic view of just step up and hit it, there clearly is a strong feeling about where others should or shouldnt stand. My own feelings are when someone pulls a club and steps on to the  tee, all moving about and talking should stop.
		
Click to expand...

I have a simplistic view because it is simple, don't stand too close, don't move and shut up.


----------



## Keeno (Jan 7, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I have a simplistic view because it is simple, don't stand too close, don't move and shut up.
		
Click to expand...

Sums it up perfectly!!


----------



## virtuocity (Jan 7, 2014)

Golfers are boring.


----------



## davidy233 (Jan 7, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I have a simplistic view because it is simple, don't stand too close, don't move and shut up.
		
Click to expand...

This sums it up perfectly - golf is a simple game - 99% is common sense


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 7, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I have a simplistic view because it is simple, don't stand too close, don't move and shut up.
		
Click to expand...

Bingo.. Really not sure why people have to complicate even the simplest tasks...


----------



## bladeplayer (Jan 7, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I have a simplistic view because it is simple, don't stand too close, don't move and shut up.
		
Click to expand...


Thread summed up in a nutshell there Mike


----------



## Qwerty (Jan 7, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			The OP talks about peripheral vision, surely it is more likely for someone to catch your eye if they are standing in front of you than behind?

Personally I don't think this is anything to do with peripheral vision, etiquette, manners or anything else, some people are obviously just need to be a little bit less concerned about where people are standing and a little bit more concerned about the shot in hand.
		
Click to expand...

Pretty much sums it up for me.


----------



## brendy (Jan 7, 2014)

Lets not forget shadows too... and not the Hank Marvin variety.


----------



## guest100718 (Jan 7, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I have a simplistic view because it is simple, don't stand too close, don't move and shut up.
		
Click to expand...

Simple but often not heeded.


----------



## Foxholer (Jan 7, 2014)

davidy233 said:



			I'm 55 so it's not exactly old school v young bucks - quiet and still are what matter - I don't see any evidence of younger people being less polite or aware of etiquette at my place (or indeed anywhere I've played in Scotland)

So to my point about where do you stand for their next shot - when they are hitting from fairway/rough? opposite them again?
		
Click to expand...

Quiet and still is what's important to me too - and is what i try to do. I've got out out of the habit of standing opposite the player as a couple of my regular playing partners are/were leftys! I've no problem if anyone asks me to stand somewhere else.

It's more important to be aware of where players are - and who is due to play - when playing from places other than the teeing area imo - because of possible distraction/disturbance and danger!


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 7, 2014)

Oh good grief - I go away for 2hrs and 15mins and come back to this...

There seems to be a pretty widely held view on this matter that if I stand where I think it is OK fcor me to stand - keep quiet and don't move - then all is OK and that's all that matters.  And if someone asks me to move then they are being a bit silly/daft/'old gittish'

Honesty to goodness - you guys need to understand something.  When playing golf with one or more others what you should do in very, very simple matters such as this is not actually in any way about what *you *deem to be OK.  And you need to be absolutely clear about that especially when playing with others whom you don't know.

This is really very simple.  The etiquette for where you stand (by the tee) when a PP is teeing off is long established - and might I suggest was established for very good reasons - because that is what was deemed best in general for most players.  And that is it.  

Why the need for a discussion about what you or I think should be OK for a player teeing off?  It is simple.  Stand where tradition and etiquette demands unless it is impractical for you to do so or the player requests otherwise of you.  This is not difficult - and as Doon says it is clear to me that this does seem to be a generational thing.  Yes there will be under-55s who understand and follow the accepted way.  However you will, I suspect, not get that many over-55s who - if they have played for some time - will think that it is OK for them to stand wherever they want as long as they are quiet and don't move.  The difference is that the former understand that how you behave on a golf course is really not *at all* about 'me' - how you behave is almost totally in the context of respect for your player companions.

For as long as I read stuff like 'surely if I...'. and 'what's he bothered about if I...' then I know folk just are not getting it.


----------



## Rooter (Jan 7, 2014)

brendy said:



			Lets not forget shadows too... and not the Hank Marvin variety.

Click to expand...

I like to stand behind my playing partners and make a hand shadow eagle fly past their ball, or a bunny rabbit.

Any one wanting any other ideas, see below.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Oh good grief - I go away for 2hrs and 15mins and come back to this...

There seems to be a pretty widely held view on this matter that if I stand where I think it is OK fcor me to stand - keep quiet and don't move - then all is OK and that's all that matters.  And if someone asks me to move then they are being a bit silly/daft/'old gittish'

Honesty to goodness - you guys need to understand something.  When playing golf with one or more others what you should do in very, very simple matters such as this is not actually in any way about what *you *deem to be OK.  And you need to be absolutely clear about that especially when playing with others whom you don't know.

This is really very simple.  The etiquette for where you stand (by the tee) when a PP is teeing off is long established - and might I suggest was established for very good reasons - because that is what was deemed best in general for most players.  And that is it.  

Why the discussion about what you are I think should be OK for a player teeing off.  It is simple.  Stand where tradition and etiquette demands unless it is impractical for you to do so or the player requests otherwise of you.  This is not difficult - and as Doon says it is clear to me that this does seem to be a generational thing.  Yes there will be under-55s who understand and follow the accepted way.  However you will, I suspect, not get that many over-55s who - if they have played for some time - will think that it is OK for them to stand wherever they want as long as they are quiet and don't move.  The difference is that the former understand that how you behave on a golf course is really not *at all* about 'me' - how you behave is almost totally in the context of respect for your player companions.

For as long as I read stuff like 'surely if I...'. and 'what's he bothered about if I...' then I know folk just are not getting it.
		
Click to expand...

You started it :ears:

Exactly what is this etiquette and tradition you are talking about because the R&A don't mention it, all they say is...




*No Disturbance or Distraction *
You should always show consideration for other players on the course and take care not to not disturb their play by moving, talking or making unnecessary noise.

You should also ensure that any electronic devices taken onto the course don't distract other players.

Only tee your ball up when it's your turn to play and remember not to stand close to the ball, directly behind it, or directly behind the hole, when a player is about to swing.
		
Click to expand...

No mention where to stand except not directly behind the ball. I have never in my golfing life been told I should stand facing the player and it seems I am not alone, I have also never been asked to move from where I stand. Of course, If someone asked me to move I would move and think nothing of it but it has yet to happen.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Oh good grief - I go away for 2hrs and 15mins and come back to this...

There seems to be a pretty widely held view on this matter that *if I stand where I think it is OK fcor me to stand - keep quiet and don't move - then all is OK and that's all that matters*.  And if someone asks me to move then they are being a bit silly/daft/'old gittish'

Honesty to goodness - you guys need to understand something.  When playing golf with one or more others what you should do in very, *very simple matters such as this is not actually in any way about what you deem to be OK*.  And you need to be absolutely clear about that especially when playing with others whom you don't know.
		
Click to expand...

Surely this (the bold above) is what it is all about. I will stand wherever I deem to be OK and then if a FC would prefer me to stand somewhere else then they can ask me to move and I have no problem with that. I have posted before about switching to a yellow/orange ball as I can't follow the flight of a white one very well. If I stand right at the back of the tee looking down the fairway I am more able to see my FC's ball flight. However everyone has the right to ask me to move to wherever they would prefer me to be standing.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 7, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			No mention where to stand except not directly behind the ball.
		
Click to expand...

Surely it would be much better advice not to stand directly in front of the ball. Although with the way I play the game that might be the safest place to be 99% of the time. There's always the chance I'll hit a straight one but not very often.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 7, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			Surely it would be much better advice not to stand directly in front of the ball. Although with the way I play the game that might be the safest place to be 99% of the time. There's always the chance I'll hit a straight one but not very often.
		
Click to expand...

 I guess even the R&A leave some things to common sense


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 7, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I have a simplistic view because it is simple, don't stand too close, don't move and shut up.
		
Click to expand...

Have you swallowed a sensible pill.
Spot on.

Myself personally it doesn't effect me at all,noise,moving etc.
However I think all of golf etiquette should be taught at a young age,children coming through the system.
Imo its not a difficult.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 7, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			Surely this (the bold above) is what it is all about. I will stand wherever I deem to be OK and then if a FC would prefer me to stand somewhere else then they can ask me to move and I have no problem with that. I have posted before about switching to a yellow/orange ball as I can't follow the flight of a white one very well. If I stand right at the back of the tee looking down the fairway I am more able to see my FC's ball flight. However everyone has the right to ask me to move to wherever they would prefer me to be standing.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry - but you are quite wrong (and I guess I'm rarely this adamant).  It is very simple - you don't stand wherever *you *deem to be OK - you stand where accepted convention tells you to stand.  Some PPs may feel awkward about asking you to move - especially if you don't really know each other or if your PP is new to the game.  You should absolutely *not *wait to be asked to move, and *not *think that things are OK for the other player if you are not asked.  It is simple.  What is the problem?


----------



## Foxholer (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Oh good grief - I go away for 2hrs and 15mins and come back to this...

There seems to be a pretty widely held view on this matter that if I stand where I think it is OK fcor me to stand - keep quiet and don't move - then all is OK and that's all that matters.  And if someone asks me to move then they are being a bit silly/daft/'old gittish'

Honesty to goodness - you guys need to understand something.  When playing golf with one or more others what you should do in very, very simple matters such as this is not actually in any way about what *you *deem to be OK.  And you need to be absolutely clear about that especially when playing with others whom you don't know.

This is really very simple.  The etiquette for where you stand (by the tee) when a PP is teeing off is long established - and might I suggest was established for very good reasons - because that is what was deemed best in general for most players.  And that is it.  

Why the need for a discussion about what you or I think should be OK for a player teeing off?  It is simple.  Stand where tradition and etiquette demands unless it is impractical for you to do so or the player requests otherwise of you.  This is not difficult - and as Doon says it is clear to me that this does seem to be a generational thing.  Yes there will be under-55s who understand and follow the accepted way.  However you will, I suspect, not get that many over-55s who - if they have played for some time - will think that it is OK for them to stand wherever they want as long as they are quiet and don't move.  The difference is that the former understand that how you behave on a golf course is really not *at all* about 'me' - how you behave is almost totally in the context of respect for your player companions.

For as long as I read stuff like 'surely if I...'. and 'what's he bothered about if I...' then I know folk just are not getting it.
		
Click to expand...

So what do you do after your Right Handed PP has played and before your Left Handed one tees up?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 7, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			Myself personally it doesn't effect me at all,noise,moving etc.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe not - what about your PP?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 7, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			So what do you do after your Right Handed PP has played and before your Left Handed one tees up?
		
Click to expand...

You move - I do - it's not difficult!


----------



## Dodger (Jan 7, 2014)

This thread has cheered me up.

Some utter pish in it.

Good work Opening Poster.....not sure how long it took you to think the subject up but well done.

Unbelievable.


----------



## john0 (Jan 7, 2014)

'If' I ever decide to go to a Forum Meet, can I ask that whoever organises the groups can I please be paired up with Swingsitlikehogan and Doon Frae Troon - I think I could make it into a most enyoyable and entertaining 5 and half hour round


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Sorry - but you are quite wrong (and I guess I'm rarely this adamant).  It is very simple - you don't stand wherever *you *deem to be OK - you stand where accepted convention tells you to stand.  Some PPs may feel awkward about asking you to move - especially if you don't really know each other or if your PP is new to the game.  You should absolutely *not *wait to be asked to move, and *not *think that things are OK for the other player if you are not asked.  It is simple.  What is the problem?
		
Click to expand...

Passion,I like passion.
I think if you watch the pros on the tele,or live they do stand infront,but
maybe a little bit to the right ,say about 1 or 2 oclock.
This to me seems a sensible place.


----------



## Robobum (Jan 7, 2014)

Haha. The OP would make Colin Montgomery look reasonable whilst he assembled people in the correct positions.

Priceless thread this one, hopefully its not stamped on and can run for a good while yet.


----------



## bladeplayer (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Sorry - but you are quite wrong (and I guess I'm rarely this adamant).  It is very simple - you don't stand wherever *you *deem to be OK - you stand where accepted convention tells you to stand.  Some PPs may feel awkward about asking you to move - especially if you don't really know each other or if your PP is new to the game.  You should absolutely *not *wait to be asked to move, and *not *think that things are OK for the other player if you are not asked.  It is simple.  What is the problem?
		
Click to expand...

Apologies but i dont understand what you mean by "accepted convention"

I stand where i think i am not in the way , i play alot of opens so end up playing with strangers,  ive no idea where they want me to stand , i will stand off the teebox  just behind the tee markers (where possible to do so) so you should have your back to me and i shouldnt be in your way (is this the accepted convention ?) if your not happy with where im standing ask me to move , if you dont ask i will not know im putting you off , so its as much your fault as mine ..


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I have a simplistic view because it is simple, don't stand too close, don't move and shut up.
		
Click to expand...

That sums it all up


----------



## davidy233 (Jan 7, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			Passion,I like passion.
I think if you watch the pros on the tele,or live they do stand infront,but
maybe a little bit to the right ,say about 1 or 2 oclock.
This to me seems a sensible place.
		
Click to expand...

Tournaments I've been to the pros stand at the back corners of the tee - not directly opposite the person swinging the club


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Maybe not - what about your PP?
		
Click to expand...

Some are effected some are not.
It really is personal preference.
Bubba and Poulter welcomed noise in the Ryder cup,others didn't.
Was this etiquette?
It didn't seem to effect anyone,however I bet there were fuddy duddys shouting at the tele
saying it wasn't right.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 7, 2014)

davidy233 said:



			Tournaments I've been to the pros stand at the back corners of the tee - not directly opposite the person swinging the club
		
Click to expand...

Of course you have,that's why I said 1 or 2 oclock,not directly opposite.
This also depends on the size of the tee as well.
You watch next time on small tees,they are actually very close,caddies as well.


----------



## ger147 (Jan 7, 2014)

I want my PP to stand somewhere where they can get a good view of my tee shot.  In the winter especially with the low sun, that is behind me.

I want to find my ball for my 2nd shot and so does my PP so I do the same for him.  If that's wrong, shoot us both!!


----------



## Odvan (Jan 7, 2014)

Another 'entertaining' thread.

I stand diagonally behind my right-handed FC  (FC a$$ being 6 0'clock, stood at 4:30 precisely*...), yards back so as not to have any part of my lower body parts in his/her vision. Nobody has ever taught me this, no one needs too.

Someone standing opposite me would not bother me in the slightest but i would think it unusual but as long as i couldn't see them at address, so what.

*before i leave for a round I tune my watch in with the speaking clock


----------



## GB72 (Jan 7, 2014)

As far as I am concerned, stand where you want and if I am not happy I will let you know and ask you to move. Same with noise, if you are russling around in your bag then fine but if I find it distracting then I will ask you to keep it down a bit (all politely of course). The only thing I do prefer (and I have no right to require it) is that everyone try and keep an eye on each others shots to make it quicker and easier to find one that goes astray. It can frustrate me when I make an effort to get a line on everyone elses tee shots and help find all the wayward ones only to find that if I hit one a bit off line (Understatement) and find that everyone else in the group was busy doing something else and not looking.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Sorry - but you are quite wrong (and I guess I'm rarely this adamant).  It is very simple - you don't stand wherever *you *deem to be OK - you stand where accepted convention tells you to stand.  Some PPs may feel awkward about asking you to move - especially if you don't really know each other or if your PP is new to the game.  You should absolutely *not *wait to be asked to move, and *not *think that things are OK for the other player if you are not asked.  It is simple.  What is the problem?
		
Click to expand...

When I play I stand where I believe it to be ok - if I was playing in your group that's exactly what I would do unless a FC asked me to stand somewhere else - that is as far as I'm aware how 99% of golfers act on the tee.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 7, 2014)

Tiger standing behind Phil



Players standing behind Phil



Players\Caddies standing both sides of Tiger



Of course there are photos of players\caddies standing in other positions but there certainly doesn't seem to be a well known tradition or etiquette.


----------



## Johnny Bravo (Jan 7, 2014)

Dodger said:



			This thread has cheered me up.

Some utter pish in it.

Good work Opening Poster.....not sure how long it took you to think the subject up but well done.

Unbelievable.

Click to expand...

Oh Yeh Johnny likes this post:thup:


----------



## guest100718 (Jan 7, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Tiger standing behind Phil
View attachment 8704


Players standing behind Phil
View attachment 8705


Players\Caddies standing both sides of Tiger
View attachment 8706


Of course there are photos of players\caddies standing in other positions but there certainly doesn't seem to be a well known tradition or etiquette.
		
Click to expand...

I think youre confusing behind with looking down the line.


----------



## Robobum (Jan 7, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Tiger standing behind Phil
View attachment 8704


Players standing behind Phil
View attachment 8705


Players\Caddies standing both sides of Tiger
View attachment 8706


Of course there are photos of players\caddies standing in other positions but there certainly doesn't seem to be a well known tradition or etiquette.
		
Click to expand...


Bloody youth of today!!


----------



## One Planer (Jan 7, 2014)

In the grand scheme of things..... Does it really matter where people stand?

Seriously!

If you're having a round of golf with me, you can stand where ever you like. My focus isn't on where my playing partners/competitors are standing. My focus is on the ball and playing my shot.

Why would you be remotely bothered where people stand? I don't understand the premise of the question as to why it matters?


----------



## Allanxyz (Jan 7, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			So what do you do after your Right Handed PP has played and before your Left Handed one tees up?
		
Click to expand...




SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			You move - I do - it's not difficult!
		
Click to expand...

Really? For me, it's all dictated by where your golf bag is... my course has a little path up one side of each tee along which you pull your trolly... I put my bag down or stop pushing my trolly on this path and I wait by it until it's my turn. This path is mostly facing a right hander, but sometimes not... when it isn't facing the golfer, nobody ups sticks and moves to the other side of the tee.... they'd look batty if they did.


----------



## bladeplayer (Jan 7, 2014)

Gareth said:



			In the grand scheme of things..... Does it really matter where people stand?

Seriously!

If you're having a round of golf with me, you can stand where ever you like. My focus isn't on where my playing partners/competitors are standing. My focus is on the ball and playing my shot.

Why would you be remotely bothered where people stand? I don't understand the premise of the question as to why it matters?
		
Click to expand...

your just an inconsiderate whelp you are :angry:


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 7, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			I think youre confusing behind with looking down the line.
		
Click to expand...

Really, I always thought if someone was standing with their back to me, I was behind them? Looking down the line would be behind the ball.


----------



## Allanxyz (Jan 7, 2014)

Gareth said:



			Why would you be remotely bothered where people stand? I don't understand the premise of the question as to why it matters?
		
Click to expand...

If we only discussed things that "mattered" on this forum it would be non-existant


----------



## guest100718 (Jan 7, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Really, I always thought if someone was standing with their back to me, I was behind them? Looking down the line would be behind the ball.
		
Click to expand...

Yep and when people say they dont like others standing behind them I take it to mean behind the ball looking down the line.


----------



## cookelad (Jan 7, 2014)

Any idea what the health and safety executive advises?

I just stand at a point I naturally arrive at, I've never given it any thought, if an FC asks me to take a step back or to the side I will as I'd expect them to do if I asked!


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 7, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Yep and when people say they dont like others standing behind them I take it to mean behind the ball looking down the line.
		
Click to expand...

With reference to the OP, behind is behind, as in with the players back to you, in front is in front, as in facing you. One of us is confused, I don't think it is me on this occasion.


----------



## Twire (Jan 7, 2014)

And we all wonder why it's difficult to introduce and keep youngsters in this sport. :smirk:


----------



## Fish (Jan 7, 2014)

I don't care where people stand as long as their still and quiet and not figitating around, if someone wants me to stand in a particular place, not a problem, just ask me nicely.


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 7, 2014)

A member at my club told me about playing a match against a real stickler from his other club. This other chap was very particular about where my mate stood, and after being asked to move several times (each time from a different postion relative to Stickler), he asked, "where do you consider the RIGHT place for me to stand is?"
The answer was "when I'm putting, I expect you to stand OFF the putting green as far as way from me as possible" !!!!


----------



## CMAC (Jan 7, 2014)

*OMG*

over 2000 views and over 105 replies in 4 hours for a totally NON ISSUE...:rofl:


unbelievable!


----------



## Rooter (Jan 7, 2014)

what if they are wearing adizero shoes? or they have a non fitted towel? should they stand further away?


----------



## john0 (Jan 7, 2014)

Rooter said:



			what if they are wearing adizero shoes? or they have a non fitted towel? should they stand further away?
		
Click to expand...

If wearing Adizero's then they shouldnt be on the course - not because they are banned, but because they are not old school!


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 7, 2014)

Oh hells teeth what is wrong with some folks on this forum? 

Believe me (or ask Doon) - there *is *an accepted convention for where you should stand when a PP is teeing off.  I am not making this up. What is difficult about understanding that convention and accepting it.  

And for those who don't care about where others stand, great - you have no problems,  But for those who stand wherever they like or think OK unless asked - surely it is easier just to make sure you do the accepted right thing.  At least then you'll know unless asked that your PP is fine with where you are standing - and as, if not more, important - you pass on this message to youngsters and newbies.

This is simply to do with respect for your fellow player and making sure that as far as possible they are not distracted by you when they are teeing off.  It is all about what your PP is happy with, not what *you *think he'll be happy with.


----------



## MegaSteve (Jan 7, 2014)

Twire said:



			And we all wonder why it's difficult to introduce and keep youngsters in this sport. :smirk:
		
Click to expand...


Thought it was universally agreed that this was all down to 'old fashioned' ideas about dress codes ....


----------



## Dodger (Jan 7, 2014)

Is this convention you speak of in the rule book or just something some old dried up Major who was a member of a club years back told you about?


----------



## Fish (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Oh hells teeth what is wrong with some folks on this forum? 

Believe me (or ask Doon) - there *is *an accepted convention for where you should stand when a PP is teeing off.  I am not making this up. What is difficult about understanding that convention and accepting it.  

And for those who don't care about where others stand, great - you have no problems,  But for those who stand wherever they like or think OK unless asked - surely it is easier just to make sure you do the accepted right thing.  At least then you'll know unless asked that your PP is fine with where you are standing - and as, if not more, important - you pass on this message to youngsters and newbies.

This is simply to do with respect for your fellow player.
		
Click to expand...

Where should you stand when having a pp, should it be up wind so the opposition catch some spray


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Oh hells teeth what is wrong with some folks on this forum? 

Believe me (or ask Doon) - there *is *an accepted convention for where you should stand when a PP is teeing off.  I am not making this up. What is difficult about understanding that convention and accepting it.  

And for those who don't care about where others stand, great - you have no problems,  But for those who stand wherever they like or think OK unless asked - surely it is easier just to make sure you do the accepted right thing.  At least then you'll know unless asked that your PP is fine with where you are standing - and as, if not more, important - you pass on this message to youngsters and newbies.

This is simply to do with respect for your fellow player and making sure that as far as possible they are not distracted by you when they are teeing off.  It is all about what your PP is happy with, not what *you *think he'll be happy with.
		
Click to expand...

Where is this "accepted convention" for where we should stand ?

Can you tell me where I can read it to ensure that I'm standing in the right place


----------



## john0 (Jan 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Where is this "accepted convention" for where we should stand ?

Can you tell me where I can read it to ensure that I'm standing in the right place
		
Click to expand...

Don't you listen......you have to ask Doon :thup:


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 7, 2014)

I think the only safe way to resolve this is if we all play on our own...

For the love of all things holy.. Sometimes I really wonder about the future of this sport when this topic gets this much attention...


----------



## Robobum (Jan 7, 2014)

Fish said:



			Where should you stand when having a pp, should it be up wind so the opposition catch some spray 

Click to expand...

Finally a sensible post on this thread. Splash back is covered in rule 19-3c


----------



## Imurg (Jan 7, 2014)

Can someone quote the "accepted convention" please coz I can't be botherred trawling back through this lot to try and find it....


----------



## Fish (Jan 7, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			I think the only safe way to resolve this is if we all play on our own...

For the love of all things holy.. Sometimes I really wonder about the future of this sport when this topic gets this much attention...
		
Click to expand...

Its PC gone mad, I bet he has it in his H&S review


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Can someone quote the "accepted convention" please coz I can't be botherred trawling back through this lot to try and find it....
		
Click to expand...


Had a quick search and can't actually see where he has stated where the actual position is ?


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 7, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Can someone quote the "accepted convention" please coz I can't be botherred trawling back through this lot to try and find it....
		
Click to expand...




SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I was taught from a young age by some gnarled old Glasgow muni golfers that it is best and good etiquette to stand facing a player teeing off.  And so that is what I do when others are teeing off - unless they ask me to move of course.  


Ta
		
Click to expand...

There you go...


----------



## Imurg (Jan 7, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			There you go...
		
Click to expand...

Cheers....kinda wish you hadn't now......:rofl:


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 7, 2014)

I really don't mind as long as my playing partners are quiet and pretty still when I tee off. 
I wouldn't have a problem if some one asked me to stand else where whilst they tee off(it's really not a problem is it)


----------



## Marshy77 (Jan 7, 2014)

Gareth said:



			In the grand scheme of things..... Does it really matter where people stand?

Seriously!

If you're having a round of golf with me, you can stand where ever you like. My focus isn't on where my playing partners/competitors are standing. My focus is on the ball and playing my shot.

Why would you be remotely bothered where people stand? I don't understand the premise of the question as to why it matters?
		
Click to expand...

This.


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 7, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Cheers....kinda wish you hadn't now......:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

If I have to have the information, then so do you.. Share the pain......


----------



## Dodger (Jan 7, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			There you go...
		
Click to expand...

Christ,he was a member of a Muni.........that surely cannot count as cut and dried. 

Muni? Paaaahhhh!!


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 7, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			There you go...
		
Click to expand...

Oh I thank you - I really do.  This is so simple but clearly lots of folk get it wrong without realising it   I hope that they take on board what they did not know - I am glad to be of service.  

And btw this is *nothing* to do with crusty old majors (believe me - the old guys I played with on the Glasgow muni I started on were far from that) - it is *all *to do with showing respect and consideration to your PP.


----------



## Fish (Jan 7, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I really don't mind as long as my playing partners are quiet and pretty still when I tee off. 
I wouldn't have a problem if some one asked me to stand else where whilst they tee off(it's really not a problem is it)
		
Click to expand...

It obviously is for some, they feel they shouldn't have to ask, we should all know our place!!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Oh I thank you - I really do.  This is so simnple but clearly lots of folk get it wrong without realising it   I hope that they take on board what they did not know.  And btw this is *nothing* to do with crusty old majors - it is *all *to do with showing respect and consideration to your PP.
		
Click to expand...

Are you being serious ? 

There is no right or wrong place unless you can show me something written down in a rule book


----------



## Imurg (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Oh I thank you - I really do.  This is so simnple but clearly lots of folk get it wrong without realising it   I hope that they take on board what they did not know.  And btw this is *nothing* to do with crusty old majors - it is *all *to do with showing respect and consideration to your PP.
		
Click to expand...

Why is it better to face them rather than be behind them?
Stood facing their rear-end there's no chance of being seen........just getting a follow-through instead....


----------



## One Planer (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I was taught from a young age by some gnarled old Glasgow muni golfers that it is best and good etiquette to stand facing a player teeing off.  And so that is what I do when others are teeing off - unless they ask me to move of course.
		
Click to expand...

Who says they had it right? Or is this just what they prefer?


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Oh I thank you - I really do.  This is so simnple but clearly lots of folk get it wrong without realising it   I hope that they take on board what they did not know.  And btw this is *nothing* to do with crusty old majors - it is *all *to do with showing respect and consideration to your PP.
		
Click to expand...

In all seriousness mate, I have absolutely no issue with standing wherever my PP wants me to stand. If they ask me to stand in a certain position on the first tee, then I'll stand in that position all day without any complaint. I have no wish to disrupt someones concentration..
However, I do think that the accepted convention should be "Still and Quiet, and in a position to watch the ball when it's struck."


----------



## Fish (Jan 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are you being serious ? 

There is no right or wrong place unless you can show me something written down in a rule book
		
Click to expand...

Its not often I will agree with you, but, I'm with you on this one.  Once I'm stood in a particular place, still and quiet, that's it, if a left hander and then a right hander goes to the tee, I ain't shuffling about, I'm staying putt, unless asked politely to move.


----------



## john0 (Jan 7, 2014)

Gareth said:



			Who says they had it right?
		
Click to expand...

He does, and by the sounds of it he's never wrong


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 7, 2014)

Fish said:



			It obviously is for some, they feel they shouldn't have to ask, we should all know our place!!
		
Click to expand...

I honestly don't know how people get through every day life if things like this upsets them.


----------



## One Planer (Jan 7, 2014)

john0 said:



			He does
		
Click to expand...

How does he know for sure it wasn't a wind up?


----------



## john0 (Jan 7, 2014)

Gareth said:



			How does he know for sure it wasn't a wind up?
		
Click to expand...

What like this thread is you mean?.... at least I hope it is, for his sake


----------



## Twire (Jan 7, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			In all seriousness mate, I have absolutely no issue with standing wherever my PP wants me to stand. If they ask me to stand in a certain position on the first tee, then I'll stand in that position all day without any complaint. I have no wish to disrupt someones concentration..
However, I do think that the accepted convention should be "Still and Quiet, and in a position to watch the ball when it's struck."
		
Click to expand...

Is the right answer :thup:


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			In all seriousness mate, I have absolutely no issue with standing wherever my PP wants me to stand. If they ask me to stand in a certain position on the first tee, then I'll stand in that position all day without any complaint. I have no wish to disrupt someones concentration..
However, I do think that the accepted convention should be "Still and Quiet, and in a position to watch the ball when it's struck."
		
Click to expand...

Sounds right to me


----------



## davidy233 (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Oh I thank you - I really do.  This is so simple but clearly lots of folk get it wrong without realising it   I hope that they take on board what they did not know - I am glad to be of service.  

And btw this is *nothing* to do with crusty old majors (believe me - the old guys I played with on the Glasgow muni I started on were far from that) - it is *all *to do with showing respect and consideration to your PP.
		
Click to expand...

What you are saying is ill informed rubbish - exactly the same sort of rubbish as my missus got told by some crusty old wifey when she started and now she's prone to holding up play by standing exactly opposite her FC for their second shot instead of walking briskly to her ball to play her shot as soon as possible.

It's never been the accepted convention that you stand directly opposite the player who is on the tee - it is accepted convention that you stay still and quiet and out of their way.


----------



## One Planer (Jan 7, 2014)

john0 said:



*What like this thread is you mean?.... *at least I hope it is, for his sake
		
Click to expand...

:thup:

(140 replies and counting  )


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 7, 2014)

Sorry - but you guys clearly don't really get what I am saying.  .

The accepted protocol was that you stood facing the player about to tee off i.e. if he raised his chin he could see you - and that was *universally accepted*.  Nothing about the game has changed over the decades in respect of how we tee off - so why are some here telling me that they know better than what became accepted.  Why do you think you know better?  Do you not think that over the development of the game others have had the same thoughts as you?  But a protocol was developed and accepted as being the most appropriate for most players in most circumstances.

Jeez. It's not difficult.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 7, 2014)

Where should you stand if they are very high handicappers, and they are crap and dangerous?  We once stood in line with Scouser but behind him and he nutmegged himself and one of us and nearly went out of bounds in the ditch behind our 18th tee. Can we also have an standing etiquette guide for if they are right munters or wearing bright yellow 80's pringle jumpers?


----------



## davidy233 (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Sorry - but you guys clearly don't really get what I am saying.  .

The accepted protocol was that you stood facing the player about to tee off i.e. if he raised his chin he could see you - and that was *universally accepted*.  Nothing about the game has changed over the decades in respect of how we tee off - so why are some here telling me that they know better than what became accepted.  Why do you think you know better?  Do you not think that over the development of the game others have had the same thoughts as you?  But a protocol was developed and accepted as being the most appropriate for most players in most circumstances.

Jeez. It's not difficult.
		
Click to expand...

Accepted protocol at one muni in Scotland - thanks for entertaining me today though - brilliant thread


----------



## One Planer (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Sorry - but you guys clearly don't really get what I am saying.  .

The accepted protocol was that you stood facing the player about to tee off i.e. if he raised his chin he could see you - and that was *universally accepted*.  Nothing about the game has changed over the decades in respect of how we tee off - so why are some here telling me that they know better than what became accepted.  Why do you think you know better?  Do you not think that over the development of the game others have had the same thoughts as you?  But a protocol was developed and accepted as being the most appropriate for most players in most circumstances.

Jeez. It's not difficult.
		
Click to expand...

If it was universally accepted can you please provide a link to a website outlining such protocol?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 7, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			In all seriousness mate, I have absolutely no issue with standing wherever my PP wants me to stand. If they ask me to stand in a certain position on the first tee, then I'll stand in that position all day without any complaint. I have no wish to disrupt someones concentration..
However, I do think that the accepted convention should be "Still and Quiet, and in a position to watch the ball when it's struck."
		
Click to expand...

Great - and so if I tell you what I was taught all those years ago (and have had confirmed to me over a period of >40yrs playing the game) to be the accepted convention, then you'll maybe follow - not my advice - but the advice of our golfing predecessors?


----------



## john0 (Jan 7, 2014)

Gareth said:



			If it was universally accepted can you please provide a link to a website outlining such protocol?
		
Click to expand...

Here you go......

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?62964-Where-Playing-Partners-Stand-when-I-tee-off


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Sorry - but you guys clearly don't really get what I am saying.  .

The accepted protocol was that you stood facing the player about to tee off i.e. if he raised his chin he could see you - and that was *universally accepted*.  Nothing about the game has changed over the decades in respect of how we tee off - so why are some here telling me that they know better than what became accepted.  Why do you think you know better?  Do you not think that over the development of the game others have had the same thoughts as you?  But a protocol was developed and accepted as being the most appropriate for most players in most circumstances.

Jeez. It's not difficult.
		
Click to expand...

If it is universally accepted then how come only you know about it ?

Are you sure you're not on a wind up ? 

Is this written down anywhere and why don't anyone of us know about it ?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 7, 2014)

Gareth said:



			If it was universally accepted can you please provide a link to a website outlining such protocol?
		
Click to expand...

Unless I can show you it written down somewhere then it can't be true - oh dear...


----------



## Fish (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Sorry - but you guys clearly don't really get what I am saying.  .

The accepted protocol was that you stood facing the player about to tee off i.e. if he raised his chin he could see you - and that was *universally accepted*.  Nothing about the game has changed over the decades in respect of how we tee off - so why are some here telling me that they know better than what became accepted.  Why do you think you know better?  Do you not think that over the development of the game others have had the same thoughts as you?  But a protocol was developed and accepted as being the most appropriate for most players in most circumstances.

Jeez. It's not difficult.
		
Click to expand...

Just when you think this might start to wain, this little beauty arrives :rofl:


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Great - and so if I tell you what I was taught all those years ago (and have had confirmed to me over a period of >40yrs playing the game) to be the accepted convention, then you'll maybe follow - not my advice - but the advice of our golfing predecessors?
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but you are talking twaddle


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Unless I can show you it written down somewhere then it can't be true - oh dear...

Click to expand...


So why doesn't anyone else know about this apart from you if it's universally accepted ?


----------



## In_The_Rough (Jan 7, 2014)

Keep it up folks this thread is pure comedy gold :rofl:


----------



## One Planer (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Unless I can show you it written down somewhere then it can't be true - oh dear...

Click to expand...


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If it is universally accepted then how come only you know about it ?

Are you sure you're not on a wind up ? 

Is this written down anywhere and why don't anyone of us know about it ?
		
Click to expand...

OK - perhaps I may be imagining this and perhaps I haven't actually ever been told to move to where I should stand.  Perhaps.  Perhaps I was only trying to help.  Can't imagine why I bothered now.


----------



## Fish (Jan 7, 2014)

In_The_Rough said:



			Keep it up folks this thread is pure comedy gold :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

I was supposed to take the dog a walk an hour ago but I'm glued to this, when are the comedy awards on, has to be a contender..


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 7, 2014)

Gareth said:





Click to expand...

??? and...?


----------



## Fish (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			OK - perhaps I may be imagining this and perhaps I haven't actually ever been told to move to where I should stand.  Perhaps.  Perhaps I was only trying to help.  Can't imagine why I bothered now.
		
Click to expand...

You may well have been told but who were they to say that that was right at that time? You cannot use certain terms which refer to facts when they have no substance, like universally accepted :smirk:


----------



## ger147 (Jan 7, 2014)

This is what the R&A have to say about it...

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Etiquette/Consideration-for-Others.aspx


----------



## In_The_Rough (Jan 7, 2014)

Fish said:



			I was supposed to take the dog a walk an hour ago but I'm glued to this, when are the comedy awards on, has to be a contender..
		
Click to expand...

Thread of the year contender already. I am sat here with a nice warm cup of coffee and like yourself glued to this


----------



## cleanstrike (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Sorry - but you guys clearly don't really get what I am saying.  .

The accepted protocol was that you stood facing the player about to tee off i.e. if he raised his chin he could see you - and that was *universally accepted*.  Nothing about the game has changed over the decades in respect of how we tee off - so why are some here telling me that they know better than what became accepted.  Why do you think you know better?  Do you not think that over the development of the game others have had the same thoughts as you?  But a protocol was developed and accepted as being the most appropriate for most players in most circumstances.

Jeez. It's not difficult.
		
Click to expand...

I appreciate that it's not usually the done thing to attack a poster on these forums but in light of your argument I am left with little choice but to conclude that you really are quite insane. Do you _really _expect anyone with half a brain working to stand in front of someone that's just about to loose off a shot from the tee? That would undoubtedly qualify for a gross stupidity award.


----------



## One Planer (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			??? and...?
		
Click to expand...

Rules of Golf - Written down 

Etiquette of the game - Written down

Little known, universally accepted, place to stand when people tee off  - ?

See my point


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			OK - perhaps I may be imagining this and perhaps I haven't actually ever been told to move to where I should stand.  Perhaps.  Perhaps I was only trying to help.  Can't imagine why I bothered now.
		
Click to expand...

But you are telling everyone else that they are wrong where they are currently standing - you are talking as if it's an actual rule and that we should all know exactly where to stand - based on what someone told you in Glasgow one day 

Do you not see how ridiculous that is ? 

There is no right place where to stand - you keep coming up with phrases like "universally accepted " and "accepted convention" but no one but you on here has even heard about this nonsense so how can it be universally accepted.

This must be a wind up


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 7, 2014)

Fish said:



			I was supposed to take the dog a walk an hour ago but I'm glued to this, when are the comedy awards on, has to be a contender..
		
Click to expand...

I'm just a bit pissed off with this.  I try and indicate where I came to understand and have had confirmed over 40+yrs of playing the game where the best place to stand is to minimise distraction to a player teeing off - and I'm getting laughed at as being a prize idiot.  And that I really, really don't get.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 7, 2014)

If I can tell a FC where I'd like him to stand can I also tell them how to stand? In a 4 ball I'm currently favouring the idea of the 3 wise monkeys in the Hear no evil, See no evil, Speak no evil poses for each of my fellow FC's. Or if I'm playing with a grumpy old sod get him to stand like a teapot.


----------



## Allanxyz (Jan 7, 2014)

Gareth said:



			If it was universally accepted can you please provide a link to a website outlining such protocol?
		
Click to expand...

I think that this "universally accepted" protocal is a load of tosh... but something doesn't have to be written on a website or even written down to be universally accepted... that's complete rubbish.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 7, 2014)

Allanxyz said:



			I think that this "universally accepted" protocal is a load of tosh... but something doesn't have to be written on a website or even written down to be universally accepted... that's complete rubbish.
		
Click to expand...

Well as @Doon suggested (way back at start and quoted below) I am not alone - no matter what the rest of you might think




			Spot on Hogan.
The only time it is correct to stand behind someone is when it is into a setting sun to follow their ball flight.
After asking your FC of course.

If someone stands behind me I would consider them to be a beginner who has yet to learn the game. They would soon be told to shift.
		
Click to expand...

...and I did also say that I am very much less bothered about players standing behind me than I am about them looking down my line - but the fact I am less bothered is not the point.


----------



## Twire (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Great - and so if I tell you what I was taught all those years ago (and have had confirmed to me over a period of >40yrs playing the game) to be the accepted convention, then you'll maybe follow - not my advice - but the advice of our golfing predecessors?
		
Click to expand...


If you went with the majority on this thread, you would be vastly outnumbered. So are we all wrong?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well as @Doon suggested (way back at start and quoted below) I am not alone - no matter what the rest of you might think
		
Click to expand...

You are being serious aren't you ! 

Blimey


----------



## Allanxyz (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I'm just a bit pissed off with this. I try and indicate where I came to understand and have had confirmed over 40+yrs of playing the game where the best place to stand is to minimise distraction to a player teeing off - and I'm getting laughed at as being a prize idiot. And that I really, really don't get.
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure there are people who've had 40+yrs of playing experience and stand in a different location to minimise distraction. They're probably on golf wrx talking about their "universally accepted" standing position as we speak...


----------



## john0 (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well as @Doon suggested (way back at start and quoted below) I am not alone - no matter what the rest of you might think
		
Click to expand...

Ah so it's all Doon's fault now then eh - I like the way your now passing on the blame, hopefully it's cos you have now realised your error :thup:


----------



## Fish (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I'm just a bit pissed off with this.  I try and indicate where I came to understand and have had confirmed over 40+yrs of playing the game where the best place to stand is to minimise distraction to a player teeing off - and I'm getting laughed at as being a prize idiot.  And that I really, really don't get.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe the other 163 posts before this one is a clue.

You've just toned it down now to _where I came to understand_ and _best place to stand is_, both these statements are nothing like your 'conventions and universally accepted' are they.

Back tracking now me thinks


----------



## guest100718 (Jan 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But you are telling everyone else that they are wrong where they are currently standing - you are talking as if it's an actual rule and that we should all know exactly where to stand - based on what someone told you in Glasgow one day 

Do you not see how ridiculous that is ? 

*There is no right place where to stand *- you keep coming up with phrases like "universally accepted " and "accepted convention" but no one but you on here has even heard about this nonsense so how can it be universally accepted.

This must be a wind up
		
Click to expand...

There are cetainly wrong places to stand.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

What happens if you're playing with a left hander ?! 

Do you expect everyone to shuffle across the tee when he tees up


----------



## Dodger (Jan 7, 2014)

Years ago I was told that Santa Claus was real and I presumed because this fella from Glasgow told me it was universally accepted to be true.

Just shows you eh?

Comedy Gold. I'm off to replenish my popcorn supplies.

I really don't actually believe Hogan isny just taken the pure pish,he has to be guys.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			There are cetainly wrong places to stand.
		
Click to expand...


Yes there are


----------



## Allanxyz (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well as @Doon suggested (way back at start and quoted below) I am not alone - no matter what the rest of you might think



...and I did also say that I am very much less bothered about players standing behind me than I am about them looking down my line - but the fact I am less bothered is not the point.
		
Click to expand...

Ok, tosh was maybe a bit strong...I'm with you that 80% of the time that is where people tend to stand... but from my experience of 15 years of golf I've never seen anyone leave their bag and walk accross the teeing ground in order to get in front of the person teeing off. They just stand behind the back of the person teeing off next to their bag. 

If this the universally accepted protocal then I find it hard to believe that nobody I've ever come across has followed it.


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 7, 2014)

I can see slh point, if playing with the ladies, as you can get a sneaky peek down the top, but then you miss her bum bending over. I guess sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.


----------



## El Bandito (Jan 7, 2014)

Fish said:



			Maybe the other 163 posts before this one is a clue.

You've just toned it down now to _where I came to understand_ and _best place to stand is_, both these statements are nothing like your 'conventions and universally accepted' are they.

Back tracking now me thinks 

Click to expand...

dog still crossing his legs?


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 7, 2014)

murphthemog said:



			I can see slh point, if playing with the ladies, as you can get a sneaky peek down the top, but then you miss her bum bending over. I guess sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
		
Click to expand...

I'll leave you with that one if you're playing with the ladies at my club.....


----------



## Fish (Jan 7, 2014)

El Bandito said:



			dog still crossing his legs?

Click to expand...

Both of us :smirk:


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Sorry - but you guys clearly don't really get what I am saying.  .

The accepted protocol was that you stood facing the player about to tee off i.e. if he raised his chin he could see you - and that was *universally accepted*.  Nothing about the game has changed over the decades in respect of how we tee off - so why are some here telling me that they know better than what became accepted.  Why do you think you know better?  Do you not think that over the development of the game others have had the same thoughts as you?  But a protocol was developed and accepted as being the most appropriate for most players in most circumstances.

Jeez. It's not difficult.
		
Click to expand...

It's not universally accepted though, no-one apart from you and Doon (and possibly Jimbob) have ever been told this and the R&A etiquette section doesn't state this. You may have been told this and you may believe it to be true but it is far from universally accepted and it certainly isn't etiquette according to the R&A. It also doesn't make sense, standing facing the player about to tee off is quite possibly the worst place I could think for someone to stand if they were trying not to put someone off.

I am getting the impression that this is like some of the "rules" we hear from time to time, someone tells someone and it becomes gospel.


----------



## CMAC (Jan 7, 2014)

so on a raised tee and someone teeing off on the far right of the box we have to all huddle together and hang on to each other on a steep bank just to get in front of the player:lol:

C'mon SHL, we all get it and we all stand still and respect our FC's wishes when an FC tee's off, or on any shot they subsequently make. :thup:


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 7, 2014)

murphthemog said:



			I can see slh point, if playing with the ladies, as you can get a sneaky peek down the top, but then you miss her bum bending over. I guess sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
		
Click to expand...

:rofl: :rofl:
With the ladies I see on the course it's more a lose,lose


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 7, 2014)

Any one standing opposite me is liable to get shanked to death.


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 7, 2014)

I remember playing Pleasington GC and was stood facing Birchy for his second shot into a long Par 4. I was about 20 yards to the side of him when he sliced his 3 wood so badly that I had to jump over the ball as it flew at me at about 150mph.. I'll not be making that mistake again..


----------



## Imurg (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well as @Doon suggested (way back at start and quoted below) I am not alone - no matter what the rest of you might think
		
Click to expand...




Doon frae Troon said:



			Spot on Hogan.
The only time it is correct to stand behind someone is when it is into a setting sun to follow their ball flight.
After asking your FC of course.

If someone stands behind me I would consider them to be a beginner who has yet to learn the game. They would soon be told to shift.
		
Click to expand...

Doon isn't agreeing with you SILH - he's saying you shouldn't stand behind THE LINE of the ball unless spotting into a low Sun....
That's accepted........He's not saying anything, in this quote anyway, about standing facing your rear or your front....


----------



## DCB (Jan 7, 2014)

I though that the average forum member, after putting on their glove and taking their usual preshot routine, would be so 'in the zone' that nothing would put them off their task of spanking the ball 285 yds down the fairway 




Salt or Buttered Dodger ?


----------



## Robobum (Jan 7, 2014)

Fair play, SLH will stand his corner.

Heaven help us if you stood behind home using your range finder!!!


----------



## Rooter (Jan 7, 2014)

DCB said:



			I though that the average forum member, after putting on their glove and taking their usual preshot routine, would be so 'in the zone' that nothing would put them off their task of spanking the ball 285 yds down the fairway 

Click to expand...

285?? Gripping down on a 5 wood??


----------



## One Planer (Jan 7, 2014)

DCB said:



			I though that the average forum member, after putting on their glove and taking their usual preshot routine, would be so 'in the zone' that nothing would put them off their task of spanking the ball 285 yds down the fairway with a 7 iron 




Salt or Buttered Dodger ?  

Click to expand...

Fixed that for you David :thup:


----------



## Alex1975 (Jan 7, 2014)

Rooter said:



			285?? Gripping down on a 5 wood??
		
Click to expand...


4 iron bruv!


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 7, 2014)

I think I'd be able to see the explosion from here if anyone ever stood behind SILH, whilst talking on their phone and lasering the fairway bunker at 350yds...

I admire your conviction SILH, it's a trait that many people don't have unfortunately...


----------



## Fader (Jan 7, 2014)

Rooter said:



			285?? Gripping down on a 5 wood??
		
Click to expand...

5 Wood... You losing yards with age surely it's no more than a soft 6iron!

A for this thread it's better than a soap opera (mind that isn't hard).. 

I'm not going to attack anyone but IMO for something to be universally accepted means its known to the majority! whereas on here only possibly 2 people know this is the accepted method.

Personally I don't think it matters where people stand as long as they aren't distracting me. I certainly wouldn't care if they were off the tee box at their bag out of the way if anything I'd prefer that as it means they're getting ready to walk off to their ball and not hanging about unduly slowing things down.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 7, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			4 iron bruv!
		
Click to expand...

With a nice smooth swing :fore:


----------



## john0 (Jan 7, 2014)

I wonder if this thread will make it onto the Forum page in the magazine............


----------



## One Planer (Jan 7, 2014)

john0 said:



			I wonder if this thred will make it onto the Forum page in the magazine............
		
Click to expand...

:rofl:


----------



## bladeplayer (Jan 7, 2014)

murphthemog said:



			Any one standing opposite me is liable to get shanked to death.
		
Click to expand...


Filth , wash your mouth out Murph .. mods infraction or ban him for  use of THE word


----------



## CMAC (Jan 7, 2014)

3533 views
196 replies
first post 10.11AM :rofl:


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Jan 7, 2014)

Have to stand to imurgs right looking straight down his intended line as to be brutally honest, it could go anywhere.

having said that..........
He would say exactly the same about mine

Aint life grand


----------



## bladeplayer (Jan 7, 2014)

CMAC said:



			3533 views
196 replies
first post 10.11AM :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

A few of them replies are stats tho , surely they dont count ... at least it was sociable enough to get this far eh ,, thats a good thing if nothing else


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 7, 2014)

When I started playing I was told it was best to stand opposite the player teeing off when practically possible ( this is only for teeing off and other shots you should be ready at your ball to play so long as not in front of any player still to play )
If opposite was not possible, stand away from the player teeing and be ready to take your turn.
At my club this happens at 10 tees , stand opposite  and on the other 8 you stand behind the player teeing off, it is the most practical place to be as that is the way the course is laid out.
I follow these general principles when playing away and not encountered any problems .


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 7, 2014)

http://www.golfalot.com/Instruction/Etiquette.aspx

Reference number 5 :thup:


----------



## Imurg (Jan 7, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Have to stand to imurgs right looking straight down his intended line as to be brutally honest, it could go anywhere.

having said that..........
He would say exactly the same about mine

Aint life grand 

Click to expand...


And at least I see where yours has gone.......


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 7, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Oh I thank you - I really do.  This is so simple but clearly lots of folk get it wrong without realising it   I hope that they take on board what they did not know - I am glad to be of service.  

And btw this is *nothing* to do with crusty old majors (believe me - the old guys I played with on the Glasgow muni I started on were far from that) - it is *all *to do with showing respect and consideration to your PP.
		
Click to expand...

Showing respect to your partner is being quiet and moving if asked. I would suggest from the responses to this post that the most inconsiderate view on this post is yours. I have seen no official rule on where to stand. So just because you were told way back when where to stand. What makes their polio on the be all and end all?


----------



## Fish (Jan 7, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Showing respect to your partner is being quiet and moving if asked. I would suggest from the responses to this post that the most inconsiderate view on this post is yours. I have seen no official rule on where to stand. So just because you were told way back when where to stand. What makes their polio on the be all and end all?
		
Click to expand...

So, question to SILH, if you were asked to move, would you, or would you argue that you were indeed in the right place?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 7, 2014)

I dunno, maybe stick to the maxim  - "When in Glasgow, do as the Glaswegians do".


----------



## jimbob.someroo (Jan 7, 2014)

Thank you all. I've just been in a meeting for last hour and came back to the best thread of the past few months by a mile. I had posted in the 'this time of year thread' about this getting a bit tedious a long while ago but it's certainly gained a new lease of life in the last couple of hours :rofl:


----------



## ger147 (Jan 7, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			I dunno, maybe stick to the maxim  - "When in Glasgow, do as the Glaswegians do".
		
Click to expand...

The only thing to remember in Glasgow is if you PP says "what are you looking at?", your next sentence will be your last before the fight starts.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 7, 2014)

murphthemog said:



			I can see slh point, if playing with the ladies, as you can get a sneaky peek down the top, but then you miss her bum bending over. I guess sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
		
Click to expand...

Brillaint! All though the ladies are at my place have 20/30 years on me. So I'd need to look nearer the ground to see either!


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 7, 2014)

ger147 said:



			The only thing to remember in Glasgow is if you PP says "what are you looking at?", your next sentence will be your last before the fight starts.
		
Click to expand...

 And that's just the women!


----------



## Stuey01 (Jan 7, 2014)

upsidedown said:



http://www.golfalot.com/Instruction/Etiquette.aspx

Reference number 5 :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Oh no he din't....


----------



## dotty001 (Jan 7, 2014)

19pages :rofl:


----------



## bladeplayer (Jan 7, 2014)

dotty001 said:



			19pages :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Change your settings 6 should cover it:thup:


----------



## Slab (Jan 7, 2014)

Phew I posted on page 5 drove home and now on page 22!

Although I do kinda like how it was _etiquette _then _protocol _then _convention _then _universally accepted_ but not sure where it'll go next

Cracking thread Gromit!


----------



## Jon321 (Jan 7, 2014)

Haven't read much of these 22 pages but I'm guessing everyone has too much time on their hands if there can be this much on where you like people standing. As long as they aren't moving about I couldn't care less.


----------



## fenwayrich (Jan 7, 2014)

I started playing 40 odd years ago, so my memory is a little cloudy, but I can't remember being taught anything other than to stand still and be quiet when my playing partners are playing.

I will usually stand on whichever side of the tee I have placed my bag to ensure the game proceeds quickly. I would of course move if asked politely to do so, but when it is my shot I am not remotely concerned where people stand.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

john0 said:



			Don't you listen......you have to ask Doon :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Hells teeth I am starting to get worried now.
Perhaps I should clarify some old school thoughts.

Standing behind the player means standing at the back of the tee looking directly down the line of the fairway. Probably the most inconsiderate place to be and only done by folk who do not have a clue about golf. [Unless offered or asked to do so by FC into a low sun.]

Every one seems to have totally missed the point that the conventional place to stand is also the safest place for any FC,
Clubs slip out of hands, heads come off clubs etc. 

Re 5.5 hour rounds with Hogan and I. Not much hope as you will probably be struggling to keep up with the old boys and would be gasping for breath after a couple of holes.

I'll catch up with the rest soon. Although most of it seems to be a load of drivel written by people who play at places like The B....


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Hells teeth I am starting to get worried now.
Perhaps I should clarify some old school thoughts.

Standing behind the player means standing at the back of the tee looking directly down the line of the fairway. Probably the most inconsiderate place to be and only done by folk who do not have a clue about golf. [Unless offered or asked to do so by FC into a low sun.]

Every one seems to have totally missed the point that the conventional place to stand is also the safest place for any FC,
Clubs slip out of hands, heads come off clubs etc. 

Re 5.5 hour rounds with Hogan and I. Not much hope as you will probably be struggling to keep up with the old boys and would be gasping for breath after a couple of holes.

I'll catch up with the rest soon. Although most of it seems to be a load of drivel written by people who play at places like The B....
		
Click to expand...

In your 40 years of golf how many times have you seen a head come off or club let go? Granted I'm only 18 months in. But I'm yet to have seen either Occur so won't factor these in too highly In regards to my safety.  I still think the main thing people have objected to. During this thread is the terms used as me mentioned before such as 'conventional'. With a thread 20+ pages long and with only your good self and slh advocating your precise standing location is correct. I would suggest the conventional place mah not actually exist.


----------



## Dodger (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Hells teeth I am starting to get worried now.
Perhaps I should clarify some old school thoughts.
*
Standing behind the player means standing at the back of the tee looking directly down the line of the fairway. Probably the most inconsiderate place to be and only done by folk who do not have a clue about golf.* [Unless offered or asked to do so by FC into a low sun.]

Every one seems to have totally missed the point that the conventional place to stand is also the safest place for any FC,
Clubs slip out of hands, heads come off clubs etc. 

Re 5.5 hour rounds with Hogan and I. Not much hope as you will probably be struggling to keep up with the old boys and would be gasping for breath after a couple of holes.

I'll catch up with the rest soon. Although most of it seems to be a load of drivel written by people who play at places like The B....
		
Click to expand...


What absolute balderdash.

Justify your claim please.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

Perhaps the words natural historical standing position would fit better then.

I am not saying that it should be observed on every occasion as some tees make that nearly impossible A couple of holes I know where you would be in the sea. I have played 50 years at all sorts of level, Pro/County/Club/Hackers Society and find that nearly all of my FC observed the natural historical standing position on tees. Generally speaking  the only ones who did not were beginners or fools and they were soon told.


----------



## Dodger (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Perhaps the words natural historical standing position would fit better then.

I am not saying that it should be observed on every occasion as some tees make that nearly impossible A couple of holes I know where you would be in the sea. I have played 50 years at all sorts of level, Pro/County/Club/Hackers Society and find that nearly all of my FC observed the natural historical standing position on tees. Generally speaking  the only ones who did not were beginners or fools and they were soon told.
		
Click to expand...

So much for the games governing body then........total fools.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

Dodger said:



			What absolute balderdash.

Justify your claim please.
		
Click to expand...

Because it simply is...that OK.
[I assume you are meaning spectators and not competitors.]


----------



## cookelad (Jan 7, 2014)

Dodger said:



			So much for the games governing body then........total fools.






Click to expand...

I'd have waited for the ship to get out of my eyeline!


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 7, 2014)

Dodger said:



			So much for the games governing body then........total fools.






Click to expand...

Bet Tiger was FUMING!!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Perhaps the words natural historical standing position would fit better then.

I am not saying that it should be observed on every occasion as some tees make that nearly impossible A couple of holes I know where you would be in the sea. I have played 50 years at all sorts of level, Pro/County/Club/Hackers Society and find that nearly all of my FC observed the natural historical standing position on tees. Generally speaking  the only ones who did not were beginners or fools and they were soon told.
		
Click to expand...

Natural historical standing position ?

Is that the same one as the universally accepted one or the accepted convention ?


----------



## Dodger (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Because it simply is...that OK.
[I assume you are meaning spectators and not competitors.]
		
Click to expand...


Balderdash again Doon.There is no difference at all to a fan standing at any place around a tee or a player,none at all.

Historical standing position? You are starting to sound like you are trying to hard to sound like you are correct.

Complete and utter pish.


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 7, 2014)

http://www.bnl.gov/bera/activities/golf/golf/etiquette.htm

The 10 Commandments of Golf Etiquette

1.	Tee: One player on the tee, at a time. Stand even with the ball well outside of the teeing ground, left or right, while each player hits. It is a breach of etiquette to stand behind a golfer on the tee, or anywhere else on the golf course. No golfer should have to ask you to move out of the way anywhere on the course, but especially on the tee, where players are concentrated like nowhere else. If you are a following foursome and arrive at a tee already occupied by the group in front, wait well off the tee for your turn. Joining them on the tee to watch the shots is a breach of etiquette, but if you do, follow the positioning rule above, at the very least. Always, remove your peg from the tee after hitting. It is a breach of etiquette to pound your tee into the ground or to leave it embedded in the teeing ground.


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Jan 7, 2014)

Can we tone down the language chaps please

keep it clean and family friendly


----------



## Dodger (Jan 7, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Can we tone down the language chaps please

keep it clean and family friendly 

Click to expand...

Stand in line please.....:thup:


----------



## El Bandito (Jan 7, 2014)

upsidedown said:



http://www.bnl.gov/bera/activities/golf/golf/etiquette.htm

The 10 Commandments of Golf Etiquette

1.    Tee: One player on the tee, at a time. Stand even with the ball well outside of the teeing ground, left or right, while each player hits. It is a breach of etiquette to stand behind a golfer on the tee, or anywhere else on the golf course. No golfer should have to ask you to move out of the way anywhere on the course, but especially on the tee, where players are concentrated like nowhere else. If you are a following foursome and arrive at a tee already occupied by the group in front, wait well off the tee for your turn. Joining them on the tee to watch the shots is a breach of etiquette, but if you do, follow the positioning rule above, at the very least. Always, remove your peg from the tee after hitting. It is a breach of etiquette to pound your tee into the ground or to leave it embedded in the teeing ground.
		
Click to expand...

Commandments! Blimey. Serious stuff now. Im off for popcorn:lol:


----------



## bobmac (Jan 7, 2014)

Bet Tiger was FUMING!!
		
Click to expand...

It's ok, he was allowed to wait and hit another


----------



## mefromhere (Jan 7, 2014)

This is hilarious. I dread to think how these people get on at a driving range.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

upsidedown said:



http://www.bnl.gov/bera/activities/golf/golf/etiquette.htm

The 10 Commandments of Golf Etiquette

1.	Tee: One player on the tee, at a time. Stand even with the ball well outside of the teeing ground, left or right, while each player hits. It is a breach of etiquette to stand behind a golfer on the tee, or anywhere else on the golf course. No golfer should have to ask you to move out of the way anywhere on the course, but especially on the tee, where players are concentrated like nowhere else. If you are a following foursome and arrive at a tee already occupied by the group in front, wait well off the tee for your turn. Joining them on the tee to watch the shots is a breach of etiquette, but if you do, follow the positioning rule above, at the very least. Always, remove your peg from the tee after hitting. It is a breach of etiquette to pound your tee into the ground or to leave it embedded in the teeing ground.
		
Click to expand...

:rofl:

Commandments  :rofl:

Well that's a lovely read

Who wrote them ? Is it in the official rule book from the R&A


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Can we tone down the language chaps please

keep it clean and family friendly 

Click to expand...

Yes thank Phil.
Just because someone has a different opinion does not mean they are wrong.


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			:rofl:

Commandments  :rofl:

Well that's a lovely read

Who wrote them ? Is it in the official rule book from the R&A
		
Click to expand...

No idea as came from the font of all knowledge Google  but does suggest that SILH , Doon and myself are not that isolated in our understanding on where to stand on the teeing off ground


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Yes thank Phil.
Just because someone has a different opinion does not mean they are wrong.
		
Click to expand...

And yet that's what you guys are telling us.........


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			:rofl:

Commandments  :rofl:

Well that's a lovely read

Who wrote them ?
		
Click to expand...

Someone wanting to teach beginners not to embarrass themselves.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			And yet that's what you guys are telling us.........
		
Click to expand...

No WE are right!
The commandments say so.


----------



## Fish (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Someone wanting to teach beginners not to embarrass themselves.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe this should fall to the responsibility of someone on the match & comps committee taking all new members out onto the course when they join and telling them where they should stand when playing, I'm sure it would be well received


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Someone wanting to teach beginners not to embarrass themselves.
		
Click to expand...

I'd be embarrassed giving them that list 

Beginners wouldn't last long - they would look at that list and think what a bunch of sanctimonious rubbish and walk away from the game.


----------



## DAVEYBOY (Jan 7, 2014)

I have no idea where I stand but if I was asked nicely to not stand directly behind someone then I wouldn't have a problem, if I was asked with a hint of bad attitude then I'd put them in the nearest lake :thup:

I wonder if the tour pros earning millions have to deal with the same dilemmas us amateurs do :rofl:


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Jan 7, 2014)

Sounds like another Python sketch

"Graham Chapman: I think all right thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. 

All: Yes, yes... 

Graham Chapman: I'm certainly not! And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am. 

Not Sure?: Mrs. Havoc-Jones. 

Mrs. Havoc-Jones: Well, I meet a lot of people and I'm convinced that the vast majority of wrong thinking people are right. 

Not Sure?: There seems like a consensus there. Could we have the next question, please? "


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

Hiya Bob
Welcome back, did this one tempt you!


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 7, 2014)

DAVEYBOY said:



			I have no idea where I stand but if I was asked nicely to not stand directly behind someone then I wouldn't have a problem, if I was asked with a hint of bad attitude then I'd put them in the nearest lake :thup:

I wonder if the tour pros earning millions have to deal with the same dilemmas us amateurs do :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

What do you do if theres no lake for 5 miles


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Hiya Bob
Welcome back, did this one tempt you!
		
Click to expand...

They never stay away for long


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 7, 2014)

Page 18
http://www.randa.org/~/media/RandA/...012 Rules/72580_ROG_CLUBHOUSE_with cover.ashx
On the teeing ground, a player should not tee his ball until it is his turn to play.
Players should not stand close to or directly behind the ball, or directly 
behind the hole, when a player is about to play.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			No WE are right!
The commandments say so.
		
Click to expand...

Don't the commandments also say you can't lay with another man, am eye for an eye and all that too.........


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

Fish said:



			Maybe this should fall to the responsibility of someone on the match & comps committee taking all new members out onto the course when they join and telling them where they should stand when playing, I'm sure it would be well received 

Click to expand...

Depends on the handicap of the new member.
If he was a beginner perhaps the safest place to stand would be more beneficial.


----------



## DAVEYBOY (Jan 7, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			What do you do if theres no lake for 5 miles

Click to expand...

Mmmmmmm :mmm:

Bury em' in a bunker


----------



## Fish (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Depends on the handicap of the new member.
If he was a beginner perhaps the safest place to stand would be more beneficial.
		
Click to expand...

But a very large percentage of people who have contributed to this thread and don't accept what is being muted, are not beginners, so shouldn't they be educated also?


----------



## Imurg (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Hells teeth I am starting to get worried now.
Perhaps I should clarify some old school thoughts.

Standing behind the player means standing at the back of the tee looking directly down the line of the fairway. Probably the most inconsiderate place to be and only done by folk who do not have a clue about golf. [Unless offered or asked to do so by FC into a low sun.]
...
		
Click to expand...

In which Galaxy is "standing behind the player" equal to standing at the back of the tee looking down the fairway?
Is the guy teeing off Croquet-style...?


----------



## guest100718 (Jan 7, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Page 18
http://www.randa.org/~/media/RandA/...012 Rules/72580_ROG_CLUBHOUSE_with cover.ashx
On the teeing ground, a player should not tee his ball until it is his turn to play.
Players should not stand close to or directly behind the ball, or directly 
behind the hole, when a player is about to play.
		
Click to expand...

nice


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Page 18
http://www.randa.org/~/media/RandA/...012 Rules/72580_ROG_CLUBHOUSE_with cover.ashx
On the teeing ground, a player should not tee his ball until it is his turn to play.
Players should not stand close to or directly behind the ball, or directly 
behind the hole, when a player is about to play.
		
Click to expand...


Jings Upsidedown that's gone and upset the apple cart.

Expect many apologies in the next 100 posts.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

Imurg said:



			In which Galaxy is "standing behind the player" equal to standing at the back of the tee looking down the fairway?
Is the guy teeing off Croquet-style...?
		
Click to expand...

It is an historic golfing term.


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Jings Upsidedown that's gone and upset the apple cart.

Expect many apologies in the next 100 posts.
		
Click to expand...

My work here is done


----------



## guest100718 (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			It is an historic golfing term.
		
Click to expand...

id agree, when someone says behind the player the mean behind the ball looking down the line. Not at his back.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Page 18
http://www.randa.org/~/media/RandA/...012 Rules/72580_ROG_CLUBHOUSE_with cover.ashx
On the teeing ground, a player should not tee his ball until it is his turn to play.
Players should not stand close to or directly behind the ball, or directly 
behind the hole, when a player is about to play.
		
Click to expand...

Which page ? Just checked and can't find that paragraph ?

Found it - so how close is too close because it clarifies that earlier by saying not to close to be I'm danger of being hit - which most people do anyway. And directly behind the hole is also a natural one and yes directly behind the ball will stop the player from actually hitting the ball. 

Doesn't say that you can't stand in the line of the shot ?


----------



## guest100718 (Jan 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Which page ? Just checked and can't find that paragraph ?
		
Click to expand...

page 18........................


----------



## Dodger (Jan 7, 2014)

The ball...........not the player.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

Fish said:



			But a very large percentage of people who have contributed to this thread and don't accept what is being muted, are not beginners, so shouldn't they be educated also?
		
Click to expand...

Yes


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 7, 2014)

Dodger said:



			The ball...........not the player.
		
Click to expand...

And where is the ball ??


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

Dodger said:



			The ball...........not the player.
		
Click to expand...

Goodness me..


----------



## Dodger (Jan 7, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			And where is the ball ?? 

Click to expand...

Waiting for the player to hit it.

Off course I am not going to stand directly behind the ball....how is the player supposed to make contact with it without taking my ankles off?


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 7, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Waiting for the player to hit it.

Off course I am not going to stand directly behind the ball....how is the player supposed to make contact with it without taking my ankles off?
		
Click to expand...

You've not seen my swing then


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			page 18........................
		
Click to expand...


It's on page 27 on I books and 19 of the Etiquette section


----------



## guest100718 (Jan 7, 2014)

Excellent, now you know where to stand.


----------



## Crow (Jan 7, 2014)

I think Doon must have right in a very early post when he said that this was a generational thing.

If Swingsitlikehoagn and Doon (who have been playing for many years) say that it's what they were taught then I'm fine with that.

I'm off to look in my Willie Park Junior book to see if it's mentioned there.


----------



## SocketRocket (Jan 7, 2014)

murphthemog said:



			Any one standing opposite me is liable to get shanked to death.
		
Click to expand...

A very good point for consideration.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Excellent, now you know where to stand.
		
Click to expand...

Yep - where I'm most comfortable and able to help my FC when ball spotting, whether that be behind him or to the side or behind the flight of the ball or by my bag. Not once have I ever encountered a standing issue on the tee.


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep - where I'm most comfortable and able to help my FC when ball spotting, whether that be behind him or to the side or behind the flight of the ball or by my bag. Not once have I ever encountered a standing issue on the tee.
		
Click to expand...

Peover golf club would prefer you to stand on the right hand side of the tee
http://www.peovergolfclub.co.uk/etiquette.php
On the tee, always go over to the right side of the tee to watch another player. This is crucial for safety. Remember that the other person may hit their drive, not be satisfied with it and then take a practice swing while you are possibly walking forward to take up your position.


----------



## ger147 (Jan 7, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Peover golf club would prefer you to stand on the right hand side of the tee
http://www.peovergolfclub.co.uk/etiquette.php
On the tee, always go over to the right side of the tee to watch another player. This is crucial for safety. Remember that the other person may hit their drive, not be satisfied with it and then take a practice swing while you are possibly walking forward to take up your position.
		
Click to expand...

No lefties at that club then?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Peover golf club would prefer you to stand on the right hand side of the tee
http://www.peovergolfclub.co.uk/etiquette.php
On the tee, always go over to the right side of the tee to watch another player. This is crucial for safety. Remember that the other person may hit their drive, not be satisfied with it and then take a practice swing while you are possibly walking forward to take up your position.
		
Click to expand...

What if a left hander is playing and doesn't like people behind him ?


----------



## davidy233 (Jan 7, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Peover golf club would prefer you to stand on the right hand side of the tee
http://www.peovergolfclub.co.uk/etiquette.php
On the tee, always go over to the right side of the tee to watch another player. This is crucial for safety. Remember that the other person may hit their drive, not be satisfied with it and then take a practice swing while you are possibly walking forward to take up your position.
		
Click to expand...

They also say this "Never get ahead of a player" - which is absolute tosh


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 7, 2014)

ger147 said:



			No lefties at that club then?
		
Click to expand...

No , apparently not though I did hear there was a recent article in the Peover Chronicle that lefties were writing to the R&A to address this issue .


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What if a left hander is playing and doesn't like people behind him ?
		
Click to expand...

One would assume you'd use common sense and for a left handed player reverse the suggestion !!


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 7, 2014)

davidy233 said:



			They also say this "Never get ahead of a player" - which is absolute tosh
		
Click to expand...

Common sense not be in front in case of errant shot I'd of thought .


----------



## ger147 (Jan 7, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			One would assume you'd use common sense and for a left handed player reverse the suggestion !!
		
Click to expand...

Common sense has no place on this thread.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			One would assume you'd use common sense and for a left handed player reverse the suggestion !!
		
Click to expand...

At last the vital saying has appeared - common sense. People use their own common sense to judge where to stand on the tee.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

Crow said:



			I think Doon must have right in a very early post when he said that this was a generational thing.

If Swingsitlikehoagn and Doon (who have been playing for many years) say that it's what they were taught then I'm fine with that.

I'm off to look in my Willie Park Junior book to see if it's mentioned there.
		
Click to expand...

It is still current as it is in the R&A advice.
It's just that many folk choose to ignore it, good example on this thread.
I thought I had landed on another planet there for a while.

It shows how golf can evolve so quickly.
There are so many propriety clubs around who just want your money that the influence of 'Club Membership' in the old fashioned way is sadly diminished.

PS Most left handed players are aware of being on the wrong side and tend to just get on with it.
If it is a fourball I always ask a new L/H player what they would prefer us to do before play. Never had one who wanted us to swop round.


----------



## Imurg (Jan 7, 2014)

Imurg said:



			In which Galaxy is "standing behind the player" equal to standing at the back of the tee looking down the fairway?
Is the guy teeing off Croquet-style...?
		
Click to expand...




Doon frae Troon said:



			It is an historic golfing term.
		
Click to expand...




guest100718 said:



			id agree, when someone says behind the player the mean behind the ball looking down the line. Not at his back.
		
Click to expand...

So we're devising new meanings for long established English words now are we....?
Is it any wonder there's confusion..?.or should I say grass-cuttings.....(just made that up)....


----------



## Allanxyz (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Jings Upsidedown that's gone and upset the apple cart.

Expect many apologies in the next 100 posts.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what your stance was but SILH was basically saying in-front only...the r&a link suggests (if I'm aimng to 12 o'clock) that 3 and 9 are fine, just not 6...


----------



## Crow (Jan 7, 2014)

Can't find anything in Willie Park Junior, written around 1896.

Had a quick look around the internet and found the following that was itroduced by the R&A at the end of their 1891 rules code:

_The following customs belong to the established Etiquette of Golf and should be observed by all golfers:

1.No player, caddie, or onlooker should move or talk during a stroke.
2.No player should play from the tee until the party in front have played their second strokes and are out of range, nor play to the Putting Green till the party in front have holed out and moved away.
3.The player who leads from the tee should be allowed to play before his opponent tees his ball
4.Players who have holed out should not try their putts over again when other players are following them.
5.Players looking for a lost ball must allow any other match coming up to pass them.
6.A party playing three or more balls must allow a two ball match to pass them.
7.A party playing a shorter round must allow a two ball match playing the whole round to pass them.
8.A player should not putt at the hole when the flag is in it.
9.The reckoning of the strokes is kept by the terms â€œthe oddâ€, â€œtwo moreâ€, â€œthree moreâ€ &c., and â€œone off threeâ€, â€œone off twoâ€, â€œthe likeâ€.  The reckoning of the holes is kept by the terms â€“ so many â€“ â€œholes upâ€ â€“ or â€œall evenâ€ â€“ and so many â€œto play.â€
10.Turf cut or displaced by a stroke in playing should be at once replaced._


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			At last the vital saying has appeared - common sense. People use their own common sense to judge where to stand on the tee.
		
Click to expand...

Cotswold Edge golf club assume common sense is sometimes lacking 

http://www.cotswoldedgegolfclub.org.uk/the-course/etiquette/
On the Tee
For safety reasons do not stand ahead (forward of the ball) of the player who is making a stroke.
To avoid distracting the player, do not stand directly behind his line of play nor anywhere else in his peripheral vision.
Generally, you should be stood in front of (facing) the player teeing off, i.e. to the right hand side of his line of play if the player is right handed. If the player is left handed, DO walk to the opposite side of the tee. Remain still & silent while your fellow player is playing.
Check your shadow does not fall in an area which may distract a fellow player in making his swing.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			At last the vital saying has appeared - common sense. People use their own common sense to judge where to stand on the tee.
		
Click to expand...

This^^^
And if the player teeing off isn't happy all they have to do is ask politely for their playing partners to move.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			It is still current as it is in the R&A advice.
It's just that many folk choose to ignore it, good example on this thread.
I thought I had landed on another planet there for a while.

It shows how golf can evolve so quickly.
There are so many propriety clubs around who just want your money that the influence of 'Club Membership' in the old fashioned way is sadly diminished.
		
Click to expand...

You certainly have a very low opinion of current golfers and golf clubs


----------



## Crow (Jan 7, 2014)

A link that recommends you stand to the side!

http://www.golf-basics-for-women.com/golf-etiquette-step-by-step.html


----------



## mikee247 (Jan 7, 2014)

Dodger said:



			So much for the games governing body then........total fools.






Click to expand...

Im surprised Tiger didnt have his caddy remove the tanker...... I guess some on this forum would have....

Ive read some threads in my time.....


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 7, 2014)

Allanxyz said:



			I'm not sure what your stance was but SILH was basically saying in-front only...the r&a link suggests (if I'm aimng to 12 o'clock) that 3 and 9 are fine, just not 6...
		
Click to expand...

Spot on. The original "commandment" from SILH wS that you could only stand in front of the golfer teeing off. This was clarified numerous times. Including when SILH stated that he would move around the tee box if there was a golfer who was left handed. Now you're saying that you should stand either in front of, or behind the golfer (not the ball obviously) and claiming that everyone else is wrong and should apologise. I would suggest that if you agree with the OP then the recent posts prove you wrong. Apologies over the next 100 posts please.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You certainly have a very low opinion of current golfers and golf clubs
		
Click to expand...

Sadly I experienced the first trance of propriety courses [not clubs] in the 1990's and soon realised that they were generally not good for golf.
Some of their business models were awful and many decent but gullible golfers lost a lot of money when they went broke. 
Because of their involvement it is one of the reasons why two obvious golfers have never been knighted.

Many have not fully recovered and carry too much debt to this day.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Sadly I experienced the first trance of propriety courses [not clubs] in the 1990's and soon realised that they were generally not good for golf.
Some of their business models were awful and many decent but gullible golfers lost a lot of money when they went broke. 
Because of their involvement it is one of the reasons why two obvious golfers have never been knighted.

Many have not fully recovered and carry too much debt to this day.
		
Click to expand...

Which two golfers ? And why should they have been knighted


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

I can't possibly say, but I think they are pretty obvious.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I can't possibly say, but I think they are pretty obvious.
		
Click to expand...

Not that obvious as I don't know which two you are talking about and why they didn't get a knighthood.


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 7, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Can we tone down the language chaps please

keep it clean and family friendly 

Click to expand...

Glad it's you Phil, I was expecting Harry Hill to make his usual decision.:thup:


----------



## Imurg (Jan 7, 2014)

I'm still trying to my head around the line from player down the fairway being 12 o'clock, standing in front on the player is 3 o'clock and standing behind him is 6 o'clock...
Where are you if you're at 9 o'clock...??????

Apart from in the pub......?


----------



## CMAC (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Sadly I experienced the first trance of propriety courses [not clubs] in the 1990's and soon realised that they were generally not good for golf.
Some of their business models were awful and many decent but gullible golfers lost a lot of money when they went broke. 
*Because of their involvement it is one of the reasons why two obvious golfers have never been knighted.*

Many have not fully recovered and carry too much debt to this day.
		
Click to expand...

reasons are never discussed or published- fact


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

CMAC said:



			reasons are never discussed or published- fact
		
Click to expand...

Do you know who these two golfers are ?


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 7, 2014)

murphthemog said:



			Any one standing opposite me is liable to get shanked to death.
		
Click to expand...

Our Lady Captain got hit by a shanked ball right in the middle of her forehead. Luckily the bone is very strong there... and few inches lower and she would be in big trouble! She was standing in the historically correct safe place...
In certain lights, you can see a very faint Titleist in mirror script above her eyes...


----------



## El Bandito (Jan 7, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			Our Lady Captain got hit by a shanked ball right in the middle of her forehead. Luckily the bone is very strong there... and few inches lower and she would be in big trouble! She was standing in the historically correct safe place...
*In certain lights, you can see a very faint Titleist in mirror script above her eyes*...
		
Click to expand...

:whoo::whoo:Screen covered in wine now.....


----------



## CMAC (Jan 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you know who these two golfers are ?
		
Click to expand...

no idea, or care, point was the honours reasons are secret and known to a certain few only- all 'reasons' people give for ommissions are then just purely speculation, assumption and hearsay.


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 7, 2014)

what about slicers, I am not naming names here, who aim miles to the left with a driver in their hands.   to stand directly opposite them I would have to be in front of the tee markers.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you know who these two golfers are ?
		
Click to expand...

Obviously!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Obviously!
		
Click to expand...

Well he doesnt - so im guessing the golfers arent as obvious as you suggest.

In fact there is problem only one golfer that i can think of that could possibly get a Knighthood and he did - Faldo. 

Who are the others


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			Our Lady Captain got hit by a shanked ball right in the middle of her forehead. Luckily the bone is very strong there... and few inches lower and she would be in big trouble! She was standing in the historically correct safe place...
In certain lights, you can see a very faint Titleist in mirror script above her eyes...
		
Click to expand...

She could not possibly have been standing in the HCSP as a shank cannot travel backwards.

My HSCP is slightly different from Hogan's but I did not want to start a pointless argument.


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 7, 2014)

Sir Bob Charles
Sir Henry Cotton

One who hasn't but perhaps should have been was our screens a fair bit in the Autumn .


----------



## In_The_Rough (Jan 7, 2014)

Tony Jacklin would be one I guess at


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

In_The_Rough said:



			Tony Jacklin would be one I guess at
		
Click to expand...

What has he done wrong ( well apart from being in that dancing program ) 

And does he really deserve a Knighthood ?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			She could not possibly have been standing in the HCSP as a shank cannot travel backwards.

My HSCP is slightly different from Hogan's but I did not want to start a pointless argument.
		
Click to expand...


Its shortened now to HSCP - is that an official abbreviation in the rules book ?


----------



## In_The_Rough (Jan 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What has he done wrong ( well apart from being in that dancing program ) 

And does he really deserve a Knighthood ?
		
Click to expand...

Not saying he deserves one or not but guessing that he is one that Doon is on about. He was virtually Bankrupt with a load of very shady golf property deals if I remember correctly. Possibly one of the reasons why he scuttled off to the USA


----------



## NWJocko (Jan 7, 2014)

Sweet Jesus of Nazareth.

The only universally accepted wisdom forummers need to know are:

1. SILH is never wrong. About anything.
2. DfT has achieved more in his life than Forrest Gump.

I honestly couldn't tell you where folk are stood when I hit the ball and I really don't care.

If you are that bothered by where someone is stood you must have very few worries in life.....


----------



## davidy233 (Jan 7, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			Sweet Jesus of Nazareth.

The only universally accepted wisdom forummers need to know are:

1. SILH is never wrong. About anything.
2. DfT has achieved more in his life than Forrest Gump.

I honestly couldn't tell you where folk are stood when I hit the ball and I really don't care.

If you are that bothered by where someone is stood you must have very few worries in life.....
		
Click to expand...

Don't knock it - kept me amused through a long day - comedy gold


----------



## Odvan (Jan 7, 2014)

Oh my days (as my teenage son would say).

Think I posted on p6 (20 per post) and then got on with my working life. How sad I am that I was busy...this has been priceless. I wouldn't say that the *intense* ridiculing has been justified but the ridiculing has . Hell, even the mods have joined in...

It cant be a wind-up thread, but its certainly provided an insight into what it's like getting in and out of Dr Who's tardis, certainly when reading a couple of posters comments. If I were a new player to golf and a new member on here I'd definitely be caught between a rock and a hard place....jack it in quick or stay and play/read for entertainment purposes.

To the OP, how are you getting on with your neighbours again, or should we ask them how they're getting on with you  ?


----------



## Odvan (Jan 7, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			Sweet Jesus of Nazareth.

The only universally accepted wisdom forummers need to know are:

1. SILH is never wrong. About anything.
2. DfT has achieved more in his life than Forrest Gump *and once played a round with Elvis amongst others*

I honestly couldn't tell you where folk are stood when I hit the ball and I really don't care.

If you are that bothered by where someone is stood you must have very few worries in life.....
		
Click to expand...

:clap::clap:


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

PM for Liverpoolphil.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Its shortened now to HSCP - is that an official abbreviation in the rules book ?
		
Click to expand...

Not yet.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

Odvan said:



			:clap::clap:
		
Click to expand...

Not Elvis but I did coach the guy who wrote Delilia for a wee while.

He is very very rich now!!


----------



## Odvan (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Not Elvis but I did coach the guy who wrote Delilia for a wee while.

He is very very rich now!!
		
Click to expand...

Despite this whole thread being rather surreal, for some reason I take this to be one of the most believable things written in it, sincerely! :thup:


----------



## ger147 (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Not Elvis but I did coach the guy who wrote Delilia for a wee while.

He is very very rich now!!
		
Click to expand...

Was that before or after he wrote Marching On Together?


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

Odvan said:



			Despite this whole thread being rather surreal, for some reason I take this to be one of the most believable things written in it, sincerely! :thup:
		
Click to expand...

You want surreal............ He also wrote the song that got Des O' Connor to No1 in the charts.....anyone know the title?


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 7, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Sir Bob Charles
Sir Henry Cotton

One who hasn't but perhaps should have been was our screens a fair bit in the Autumn .
		
Click to expand...

If you mean old Colin. Always a bridesmaid never a bride. Knighthoods should be for reaching top of your sport. He was never no 1 and never landed a major!


----------



## ger147 (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			You want surreal............ He also wrote the song that got Des O' Connor to No1 in the charts.....anyone know the title?
		
Click to expand...

I would have to Google it and that's cheating...


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 7, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			If you mean old Colin. Always a bridesmaid never a bride. Knighthoods should be for reaching top of your sport. He was never no 1 and never landed a major!
		
Click to expand...

No , not Colin, Tony Jacklin as mentioned above. Although 7 Order of Merits on the bounce was fairly impressive, not to mention his Ryder Cup record.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 7, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			No idea as came from the font of all knowledge Google  but does suggest that SILH , Doon and myself are not that isolated in our understanding on where to stand on the teeing off ground
		
Click to expand...

It doesn't suggest anything of the sort. SILH made specific reference to "behind" being facing his back not at the back of the tee looking up the fairway and that the correct place is facing the player. The "commandments"  say to stand outside the tee left or right which means you can stand facing his front or back which is what most of us have been saying all along. No-one has ever argued that it is OK to stand behind the ball.

You can argue what "behind" means all you like but SILH set the context in his OP by describing behind as behind his back.


----------



## Dodger (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Not Elvis but I did coach the guy who wrote Delilia for a wee while.

He is very very rich now!!
		
Click to expand...


Jeeeesus! Another Just One!


----------



## Odvan (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			You want surreal............ He also wrote the song that got Des O' Connor to No1 in the charts.....anyone know the title?
		
Click to expand...

Not particularly, I watched Secrets of the Living Dolls last night...


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Jings Upsidedown that's gone and upset the apple cart.

Expect many apologies in the next 100 posts.
		
Click to expand...

Isn't this what I posted about 5 hours ago, how does it prove SILH was right?


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

Hawkeye there were a few rather rude replies that said that it was OK to stand behind the ball.


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 7, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			It doesn't suggest anything of the sort. SILH made specific reference to "behind" being facing his back not at the back of the tee looking up the fairway and that the correct place is facing the player. The "commandments"  say to stand outside the tee left or right which means you can stand facing his front or back which is what most of us have been saying all along. No-one has ever argued that it is OK to stand behind the ball.

You can argue what "behind" means all you like but SILH set the context in his OP by describing behind as behind his back.
		
Click to expand...

I took it to mean you stand left or right depending on wether it was a right or left handed player so therefore as it goes on to say  that it is a breach of etiquette to stand behind a player you would therefore be directly opposite which I took to be SILH OP 
*I was taught from a young age by some gnarled old Glasgow muni golfers that it is best and good etiquette to stand facing a player teeing off*
1.	Tee: One player on the tee, at a time. Stand even with the ball well outside of the teeing ground, left or right, while each player hits. It is a breach of etiquette to stand behind a golfer on the tee


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Not Elvis but I did coach the guy who wrote Delilia for a wee while.

He is very very rich now!!
		
Click to expand...

???? Not the green green grass of home.:rofl:


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 7, 2014)

Imurg said:



			I'm still trying to my head around the line from player down the fairway being 12 o'clock, standing in front on the player is 3 o'clock and standing behind him is 6 o'clock...
Where are you if you're at 9 o'clock...??????

Apart from in the pub......?
		
Click to expand...

I'm glad you asked, also. Psst does he mean GMT or CET, and do we have to wait for the clocks to go back, or not?


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 7, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			I took it to mean you stand left or right depending on wether it was a right or left handed player so therefore as it goes on to say  that it is a breach of etiquette to stand behind a player you would therefore be directly opposite which I took to be SILH OP 
*I was taught from a young age by some gnarled old Glasgow muni golfers that it is best and good etiquette to stand facing a player teeing off*
1.	Tee: One player on the tee, at a time. Stand even with the ball well outside of the teeing ground, left or right, while each player hits. It is a breach of etiquette to stand behind a golfer on the tee
		
Click to expand...

It doesn't actually say that though does it, it makes no reference to which hand the player is and doesn't specifically mention facing the player. The breach of etiquette it references about standing behind the player can only mean the R&As reference to at the back of the tee facing down the fairway as that is the only place the R&A say you shouldn't stand in the etiquette section. Standing behind a player's back is not a breach of etiquette.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 7, 2014)

williamalex1 said:



			???? Not the green green grass of home.:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Nope the unforgettable 'I Pretend'

He thought his best song was Love Grows [Where my Rosemary goes] by Edison Lighthouse I tend to agree with him.

The Last Waltz by Englebert still must draw a few bob in.


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 7, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			It doesn't actually say that though does it, it makes no reference to which hand the player is and doesn't specifically mention facing the player. The breach of etiquette it references about standing behind the player can only mean the R&As reference to at the back of the tee facing down the fairway as that is the only place the R&A say you shouldn't stand in the etiquette section. Standing behind a player's back is not a breach of etiquette.
		
Click to expand...

You're right they don't but as in other references I've quoted from those references will  mention not to stand behind players if you delve a bit deeper.
Takn from Peover Golf clubs website as an example.
*Always stand to the right of the shot and never behind a player.*
http://www.peovergolfclub.co.uk/etiquette.php


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 7, 2014)

I often stand behind the ball. As previously mentioned, by me, and a couple of others, it's the best place to see the ball flight. Looking from the side gives limited vision, and I'm either going to get whip lash trying to follow the ball, or not bother. I'm for not bothering.

As an aside, how far back would I have to stand for those who are fussed to be okay with it? 

Oh, and in 30 odd years, I've been asked to move probably less than a dozen times.


----------



## Robobum (Jan 7, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			You're right they don't but as in other references I've quoted from those references will  mention not to stand behind players if you delve a bit deeper.
Takn from Peover Golf clubs website as an example.
*Always stand to the right of the shot and never behind a player.*
http://www.peovergolfclub.co.uk/etiquette.php

Click to expand...

That could have been written by some douchebag with no idea about golf. Our club website has some right old tosh on it, written by said Douchebag


----------



## davidy233 (Jan 7, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			You're right they don't but as in other references I've quoted from those references will  mention not to stand behind players if you delve a bit deeper.
Takn from Peover Golf clubs website as an example.
*Always stand to the right of the shot and never behind a player.*
http://www.peovergolfclub.co.uk/etiquette.php

Click to expand...

Probably written by some old boy who got told it on a 'Glasgow muni'


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 7, 2014)

Robobum said:



			That could have been written by some douchebag with no idea about golf. Our club website has some right old tosh on it, written by said Douchebag
		
Click to expand...

Douchebag is about right as it comes from Peover, apologies to Peoverrians I'm sure it's not pronounced as I'm saying it


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 7, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			You're right they don't but as in other references I've quoted from those references will  mention not to stand behind players if you delve a bit deeper.
Takn from Peover Golf clubs website as an example.
*Always stand to the right of the shot and never behind a player.*
http://www.peovergolfclub.co.uk/etiquette.php

Click to expand...

But that isn't actually in the etiquette section from the R&A is it? While some may say to stand facing the player that is their opinion, it is not a breach of etiquette to stand behind a players back according to the R&A and it most certainly isn't universally accepted that you stand facing the player


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 7, 2014)

davidy233 said:



			Probably written by some old boy who got told it on a 'Glasgow muni'
		
Click to expand...


----------



## BTatHome (Jan 7, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			But that isn't actually in the etiquette section from the R&A is it? While some may say to stand facing the player that is their opinion, it is not a breach of etiquette to stand behind a players back according to the R&A and it most certainly isn't universally accepted that you stand facing the player
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately the etiquette section is often quoted without any substance ... and now we have 'universally accepted' to add to the reasoning without fact section.


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 7, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			But that isn't actually in the etiquette section from the R&A is it? While some may say to stand facing the player that is their opinion, it is not a breach of etiquette to stand behind a players back according to the R&A and it most certainly isn't universally accepted that you stand facing the player
		
Click to expand...

No as I said it's not but there are clubs out there who do advocate not standing behind players.

For the vast majority of the time where do caddies stand for Professionals?  About 15 to 20 degrees slightly behind and  off to the right facing the player.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2014)

BTatHome said:



			Unfortunately the etiquette section is often quoted without any substance ... and now we have 'universally accepted' to add to the reasoning without fact section.
		
Click to expand...

Don't forget to add "accepted convention" "natural historic standing position" and "HSCP"


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 7, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			No as I said it's not but there are clubs out there who do advocate not standing behind players.

For the vast majority of the time where do caddies stand for Professionals?  About 15 to 20 degrees slightly behind and  off to the right facing the player.
		
Click to expand...

I posted some pictures earlier where that wasn't the case and there are hundreds more on google. The whole point of this argument though is that it is not etiquette to stand facing the player and it is not universally accepted. If clubs and people want to tell you where to stand that's up to them, but let's not kid ourselves that it is gospel.


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 7, 2014)

Found this an interesting read.

http://living.lakemartinmagazine.com/2013/12/18/keeping-etiquette-in-the-game/


----------



## Robobum (Jan 7, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Found this an interesting read.

http://living.lakemartinmagazine.com/2013/12/18/keeping-etiquette-in-the-game/

Click to expand...

These references are getting more and more obscure!!

I'll be back with a link to Starsky & Hutches guide to golf etiquette shortly


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 7, 2014)

Robobum said:



			These references are getting more and more obscure!!

I'll be back with a link to Starsky & Hutches guide to golf etiquette shortly 

Click to expand...

Give Bubba a ring, they might have left one in the trunk


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Nope the unforgettable 'I Pretend'

He thought his best song was Love Grows [Where my Rosemary goes] by Edison Lighthouse I tend to agree with him.

The Last Waltz by Englebert still must draw a few bob in.
		
Click to expand...

I was thinking Tom Jones songs when you mentioned Delilah, plus with you being a ex green green grass keeper  . :thup:


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 7, 2014)

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Etiquette/Consideration-for-Others.aspx


----------



## SocketRocket (Jan 7, 2014)

Robobum said:



			That could have been written by some douchebag with no idea about golf. Our club website has some right old tosh on it, written by said Douchebag
		
Click to expand...

Heres one from our locker room:   
	View attachment 8719


----------



## CMAC (Jan 7, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Heres one from our locker room:   
	View attachment 8719

Click to expand...

...and about every locker room I've seen in clubs up here bet they all thought it was unique when they put it up

the power of the T'interweb


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 7, 2014)

Robobum said:



			Fair play, SLH will stand his corner.

Heaven help us if you stood behind home using your range finder!!!
		
Click to expand...

LOL - I like that


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 8, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			When I started playing I was told it was best to stand opposite the player teeing off when practically possible ( this is only for teeing off and other shots you should be ready at your ball to play so long as not in front of any player still to play )
If opposite was not possible, stand away from the player teeing and be ready to take your turn.
At my club this happens at 10 tees , stand opposite  and on the other 8 you stand behind the player teeing off, it is the most practical place to be as that is the way the course is laid out.
I follow these general principles when playing away and not encountered any problems .
		
Click to expand...

Hallelujah and praise the lawd - someone else has been told what I was told.


----------



## Slab (Jan 8, 2014)

I blame the clubs.... it used to be a problem where I play with carnage and confusion abound until eventually on each tee box they fitted marker plates inlaid with B, C & D on them denoting where each player should stand and adopting a â€˜tagâ€™ system to allow the next player to leave their marker and tee off... happy days now thereâ€™s no more incidents like the infamous 12th tee melee of July 86 

_(Actually before the â€˜tagâ€™ system was introduced they used a Marshal on each tee box to direct players when to move off their marker but found that they had nowhere to stand themselves... we live and learn!)_


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 8, 2014)

upsidedown said:



http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Etiquette/Consideration-for-Others.aspx

Click to expand...

Which is what I posted earlier and says nothing about not standing behind the player


----------



## PNWokingham (Jan 8, 2014)

Wow - just seen this post - is it worth me booking a holiday from work to catch up?


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 8, 2014)

PNWokingham said:



			Wow - just seen this post - is it worth me booking a holiday from work to catch up?

Click to expand...

No!


----------



## guest100718 (Jan 8, 2014)

PNWokingham said:



			Wow - just seen this post - is it worth me booking a holiday from work to catch up?

Click to expand...

Nope its a load of waffle.


----------



## mikee247 (Jan 8, 2014)

You'd have more fun sticking pins in your eyes! or playing golf in this weather.....


----------



## CMAC (Jan 8, 2014)

think we need a 'place to stand on the tee' fitting thread


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 8, 2014)

It has been surprising to me that so many did not know about something that I thought was generally understood to be 'best practice' (there's another descriptor for those who like to pick holes in precisely how I refer to it).  

But there you go.  I have done all I set out to do by making those folk aware that indeed, for some of us, there is somewhere I will stand in order to minimise the likelihood of distracting the player when he is teeing off - and to minimise risk of the player having to ask me to move - or indeed for him to play when uncomfortable as he feels too awkward about asking.  I'll note that the guidance was only ever 'if practical' - I never said you always had to stand somewhere - just stand there if you could.  

36 pages of scoffing and a few supportive posts - hey ho


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 8, 2014)

Thankfully most use common sense and stand where all FC are comfortable and then keep still and quiet


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 8, 2014)

I take a night off from the forum to inflict carnage to my internal organs and a heavy night on a school night and mayhem ensues. It is quite simple. Get a custom fit for the right geometrical position along the axis of the players rotation to ensure that proximity and eyeline correlate to Newtons laws on physics and that elf & safety risk assessments are completed on every hole before any player is allowed to proceed. How can so much rubbish be spouted about something so simple alhough that could probably be levelled at the majority of my own posts so I'll shut up now, retire back to my desk with a paracetamol and shuffle papers to look vaguely busy.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Thankfully most use common sense and stand where all FC are comfortable and then keep still and quiet
		
Click to expand...

..and this is all I was saying.  To avoid folks having to use their (dubious) common sense (and just perhaps getting it wrong for any specific player) guidance on where best to stand was given - that being opposite the player - if practical.  Player can ask you to move if he doesn't want you there.   But as a starting position it's where I stand.  And in my experience it was etiquette (maybe unwritten but also best practice/guidance/appropriate etc etc) to stand in that position.


----------



## vkurup (Jan 8, 2014)

When playing with my regular fellas, I prefer standing in the middle of the fairway... it is the safest place on the course with the lads.  :ears:


----------



## Snelly (Jan 8, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Believe me (or ask Doon) - there *is *an accepted convention for where you should stand when a PP is teeing off.  I am not making this up. What is difficult about understanding that convention and accepting it.  

And for those who don't care about where others stand, great - you have no problems,  But for those who stand wherever they like or think OK unless asked - surely it is easier just to make sure you do the accepted right thing.  At least then you'll know unless asked that your PP is fine with where you are standing - and as, if not more, important - you pass on this message to youngsters and newbies.

This is simply to do with respect for your fellow player and making sure that as far as possible they are not distracted by you when they are teeing off.  It is all about what your PP is happy with, not what *you *think he'll be happy with.
		
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you.  There absolutely is an accepted convention of where players should stand when others are teeing off and it is exactly where you and others have stated, opposite the player and back a bit. 

Everyone who doesn't do this is standing in the wrong place and should modify their behaviour if they want to be seen as standing in the correct place, as good manners dictate.  That said, I doubt many will because plenty seem to think that perceived wisdom states you can stand anywhere - it doesn't and you shouldn't.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 8, 2014)

I guess an observation I have on all of this discussion is that it reflects attitudes of many of today's golfers.  If the rationale behind something is not understood, or deemed to be 'dated', then it is rejected, challenged and questioned.  We see this a lot here on the forum in respect of the rules.  

I have to say that most of these scenarios seem to be stated from an individual player point of view, rather than from the broader and general view, taking into consideration other players or competitors.


----------



## Snelly (Jan 8, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I guess an observation I have on all of this discussion is that it reflects attitudes of many of today's golfers.  If the rationale behind something is not understood, or deemed to be 'dated', then it is rejected, challenged and questioned.  We see this a lot here on the forum in respect of the rules.  

I have to say that most of these scenarios seem to be stated from an individual player point of view, rather than from the broader and general view, taking into consideration other players or competitors.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed, again.


----------



## One Planer (Jan 8, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I guess an observation I have on all of this discussion is that it reflects attitudes of many of today's golfers.  If the rationale behind something is not understood, or deemed to be 'dated', then it is rejected, challenged and questioned.  *We see this a lot here on the forum in respect of the rules*.  

I have to say that most of these scenarios seem to be stated from an individual player point of view, rather than from the broader and general view, taking into consideration other players or competitors.
		
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, what you are suggest in your OP is *not* a rule.


----------



## Snelly (Jan 8, 2014)

Gareth said:



			Just to be clear, what you are suggest in your OP is *not* a rule.
		
Click to expand...

No it is absolutely not a rule, just good manners and the way it has traditionally been done.


----------



## jimbob.someroo (Jan 8, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Agreed, again.
		
Click to expand...

Snelly and Hogan sitting in a tree,
K.I.S.S.I.N.G,
First comes duffs,
Then comes hooks,
Then comes UpsideDown and his etiquette book.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 8, 2014)

Snelly said:



			I totally agree with you.  There absolutely is an accepted convention of where players should stand when others are teeing off and it is exactly where you and others have stated, opposite the player and back a bit. 

Everyone who doesn't do this is standing in the wrong place and should modify their behaviour if they want to be seen as standing in the correct place, as good manners dictate.  That said, I doubt many will because plenty seem to think that perceived wisdom states you can stand anywhere - it doesn't and you shouldn't.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks Snelly - much appreciated - I was thinking I was losing it even more than I know I'm losing it


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 8, 2014)

Snelly said:



			No it is absolutely not a rule, just good manners and the way it has traditionally been done.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed -  I never suggested it was a rule but that I see the same attitude taken towards rules (and attire)


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 8, 2014)

Can I once again repeat that the HRSP has evolved as it is seen to be the SAFEST place to stand.
Few on here seem to be taking that in.


----------



## mikee247 (Jan 8, 2014)

I have to say I play the game and have done for many years with all the etiquette and rules obedience I can muster.. I also play with many different ages, ability and genders...Ive played in tournaments and with Pros and Ive never been asked to move to a certain area, stand still or STFU..Nor have I had to think about it too much... I would imagine most people have experienced the same.   Hence why I cant understand why this is going on and on and on??? ......to much time on their hands or the golf courses being closed!!! I enjoy the game and most of the people Ive played with. I believe these rules and etiquette is important to the integrity of the game. buts its a pastime... that's all.  However if I had to play with some people commenting on this thread Id end up hanging from a tree by the 3rd....  Yes Id expect Ill be asked to move or keep still even then.... Your current playing partners must have skins like a Rhino!  Good luck to them!


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 8, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Agreed -  I never suggested it was a rule but that I see the same attitude taken towards rules (and attire)
		
Click to expand...

To be fair SilH, this wouldn't have escalated as it did if you hadn't used terms such as "generally accepted" and "universally accepted" and basically made it sound as though it was written in the rule book somewhere. No-one disputes that you were told this, or that others have been told this but the way you made your point making it seem like you should always stand facing the player and anyone not doing that was wrong when in fact that is not the case, there may be people who believe you should stand where you say but it absolutely isn't the generally accepted etiquette. If it was, it would be in the R&A rule book under etiquette, which is the only document that really holds any water when it comes to the rules and etiquette of golf.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 8, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			To be fair SilH, this wouldn't have escalated as it did if you hadn't used terms such as "generally accepted" and "universally accepted" and basically made it sound as though it was written in the rule book somewhere. No-one disputes that you were told this, or that others have been told this but the way you made your point making it seem like you should always stand facing the player and anyone not doing that was wrong when in fact that is not the case, there may be people who believe you should stand where you say but it absolutely isn't the generally accepted etiquette. If it was, it would be in the R&A rule book under etiquette, which is the only document that really holds any water when it comes to the rules and etiquette of golf.
		
Click to expand...

More sensible pills taken overnight.
You do talk some sense sometimes.:thup:
Hows the practice coming along,you seem to have a lot more time on your hands
than you suggested


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 8, 2014)

mikee247 said:



			I have to say I play the game and have done for many years with all the etiquette and rules obedience I can muster.. I also play with many different ages, ability and genders...Ive played in tournaments and with Pros and Ive never been asked to move to a certain area, stand still or STFU..Nor have I had to think about it too much... I would imagine most people have experienced the same.   Hence why I cant understand why this is going on and on and on??? ...... I enjoy the game and most of the people Ive played with. I believe these rules and etiquette is important to the integrity of the game. Its a pastime that's all.  However if I had to play with some people commenting on this thread Id end up hanging from a tree by the 3rd....  Yes Id expect Ill be asked to move or keep still even then.... Your current playing partners must have skins like a Rhino!  Good luck to them! 

Click to expand...

My playing partners know where to stand.
For them it is as natural as not treading on someones line, driving a car or having a pee. For crying out loud they do not all say 'oh dear we must all gather round in this correct standing position.' they just do it.
I think the last time I asked someone to move was about 30 years ago when a youngster insisted on standing behind me, directly in my eye line.
[maybe a few other times when I thought someone may be struck by a swing.]

Some on here are really getting their knickers in a twist over a very simple respectful act.


----------



## CMAC (Jan 8, 2014)

Christ! is this still lumbering on with people all saying the same things but in a different way!!!


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 8, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			My playing partners know where to stand.
For them it is as natural as not treading on someones line, driving a car or having a pee. For crying out loud they do not all say 'oh dear we must all gather round in this correct standing position.' they just do it.
I think the last time I asked someone to move was about 30 years ago when a youngster insisted on standing behind me, directly in my eye line.
[maybe a few other times when I thought someone may be struck by a swing.]

Some on here are really getting their knickers in a twist over a very simple respectful act.
		
Click to expand...

That's just it Doon - it's really very simple and natural.

Mind you I had to ask a playing companion to move fairly recently as he was standing looking right down my line as I prepared to hit a tee shot.   He was relatively new to the game (3 yrs member of another club before joining us late last year) and in fact had very little idea where he should stand at *any *time - he clearly had never been advised of where it was inappropriate to stand.  On one approach shot he stood with his trolley about 3 feet from my ball (facing me ).  I had to ask him to move away.  Some folks introducing newbies to the game don't seem to be doing their job very well.


----------



## Alex1975 (Jan 8, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			My playing partners know where to stand.
For them it is as natural as not treading on someones line, driving a car or having a pee. For crying out loud they do not all say 'oh dear we must all gather round in this correct standing position.' they just do it.
I think the last time I asked someone to move was about 30 years ago when a youngster insisted on standing behind me, directly in my eye line.
[maybe a few other times when I thought someone may be struck by a swing.]

Some on here are really getting their knickers in a twist over a very simple respectful act.
		
Click to expand...



This^^^ How has this gone 10 pages? ( I have not been following the blow by blow)


And even if you play with people who don't know or care, have you ever asked someone to move and them not move?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 8, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			And even if you play with people who don't know or care, have you ever asked someone to move and them not move?
		
Click to expand...

No - but that's not really the point.  I shouldn't have to ask you to move - besides I may be shy or unsure and be embarrassed to ask you to move.  Just stand where etiquette has us stand.  It's easy.  This thread seems to have turned into some refusing to accept that there might, just might, be etiquette associated with where you should stand when we are teeing off.  And this is odd as we all accept the etiquette around silence, moving etc,


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 8, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			My playing partners know where to stand.
For them it is as natural as not treading on someones line, driving a car or having a pee. For crying out loud they do not all say 'oh dear we must all gather round in this correct standing position.' they just do it.
I think the last time I asked someone to move was about 30 years ago when a youngster insisted on standing behind me, directly in my eye line.
[maybe a few other times when I thought someone may be struck by a swing.]

Some on here are really getting their knickers in a twist over a very simple respectful act.
		
Click to expand...

So do mine Doon, sometimes we are standing facing the player, sometimes behind him, sometimes looking down the line if playing into the sun. The bottom line is no-one cares (at least no-one I know) as long as you are not too close, standing still and keeping quiet. I have never been asked to move and never had to ask anyone to move, it's just common sense.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 8, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			More sensible pills taken overnight.
You do talk some sense sometimes.:thup:
Hows the practice coming along,you seem to have a lot more time on your hands
than you suggested

Click to expand...

Practice is fine, it's when I get on the course I have the problem!


----------



## Waitforme (Jan 8, 2014)

I stand in a place not in the player's view, have never been asked to move and have never needed to ask anyone to move.

If the correct place is opposite and behind then the rules need a sub clause when teeing areas do not allow this .


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 8, 2014)

I've never asked anyone to move as there has been no need as for me they were standing in an area where they weren't interfering with my shot. Yes sometimes people stand behind me and that's not a problem ( see post 202) but when ever practical they would stand opposite me.
This has been the case at all four clubs I've been a member at and as such I took it be the case every where and my investigating on the "net " still leads me to think that there are other clubs out there where the thinking is the same .
However it is clear that not everyone or every club thinks the same so c'est la vie.:thup:


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 8, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			I've never asked anyone to move as there has been no need as for me they were standing in an area where they weren't interfering with my shot. Yes sometimes people stand behind me and that's not a problem ( see post 202) but when ever practical they would stand opposite me.
This has been the case at all four clubs I've been a member at and as such I took it be the case every where and my investigating on the "net " still leads me to think that there are other clubs out there where the thinking is the same .
*However it is clear that not everyone or every club thinks the same so c'est la vie.:thup:*

Click to expand...

:thup: Are we done now


----------



## Alex1975 (Jan 8, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			No - but that's not really the point.  I shouldn't have to ask you to move - besides I may be shy or unsure and be embarrassed to ask you to move.  Just stand where etiquette has us stand.  It's easy.  This thread seems to have turned into some refusing to accept that there might, just might, be etiquette associated with where you should stand when we are teeing off.  And this is odd as we all accept the etiquette around silence, moving etc,
		
Click to expand...


Yes, My point was, I agree with you, its the same as not standing on my line or anything. I never had this conversation with anyone when I started playing, it was just obvious that there was a correct thing to do and as Hawkeye says, it can depend on the situation. But my secondary point was that if someone is not of the same mind set (my father in law) we take the piss out of him or tell him... Steve, move! or maybe even something pleasant.


----------



## Snelly (Jan 8, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			So do mine Doon, sometimes we are standing facing the player, sometimes behind him, sometimes looking down the line if playing into the sun. The bottom line is no-one cares (at least no-one I know) as long as you are not too close, standing still and keeping quiet. I have never been asked to move and never had to ask anyone to move, it's just common sense.
		
Click to expand...


And I am telling you that you have been ignorant in your golfing career to date as actually, there is a proper place to stand when on the tee and others are teeing off.   I am sorry if that is an uncomfortable truth. 

I can't quite understand why you and others with the same view aren't just accepting that you have learned something new that you no-one has told you about before.  You are now enlightened.  Every day is a school day.  Embrace your new knowledge and stand where you are supposed to from now on.


Or carry on as you are.   I don't really care.  But perhaps you could at least accept that you now know that there is a proper place to stand, even if you choose to disregard it and carry on as you are?


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 8, 2014)

Snelly said:



			And I am telling you that you have been ignorant in your golfing career to date as actually, there is a proper place to stand when on the tee and others are teeing off.   I am sorry if that is an uncomfortable truth. 

I can't quite understand why you and others with the same view aren't just accepting that you have learned something new that you no-one has told you about before.  You are now enlightened.  Every day is a school day.  Embrace your new knowledge and stand where you are supposed to from now on.


Or carry on as you are.   I don't really care.  But perhaps you could at least accept that you now know that there is a proper place to stand, even if you choose to disregard it and carry on as you are?
		
Click to expand...

:thup:


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 8, 2014)

Snelly said:



			And I am telling you that you have been ignorant in your golfing career to date as actually, there is a proper place to stand when on the tee and others are teeing off.   I am sorry if that is an uncomfortable truth. 

I can't quite understand why you and others with the same view aren't just accepting that you have learned something new that you no-one has told you about before.  You are now enlightened.  Every day is a school day.  Embrace your new knowledge and stand where you are supposed to from now on.


Or carry on as you are.   I don't really care.  But perhaps you could at least accept that you now know that there is a proper place to stand, even if you choose to disregard it and carry on as you are?
		
Click to expand...

When the R&A write it in the etiquette section, I'll accept it, until then it is just the opinion of some people.


----------



## One Planer (Jan 8, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			That's just it Doon - it's really very simple and natural.
		
Click to expand...

If it was that simple and natural, everyone would do it.

The differing opinions on this thread show it's far from what you state.

The simple fact is you were shown where to stand, so to you,  yes it is simple and natural. To me operating the complex lifting machinery at work is simple and natural as I've been shown and have been doing it for years. If I put you in front of the the controls, would it be simple and natural?

The fact 90% of respondents on this thread had no idea of the 'correct position' doesn't support your argument.


----------



## One Planer (Jan 8, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			When the R&A write it in the etiquette section, I'll accept it, until then it is just the *opinion* of some people.
		
Click to expand...

:thup:

Emphasis on opinion.


----------



## El Bandito (Jan 8, 2014)

At the risk of dragging this on ever further...the 'debate' that has raged on this thread has been intense at times, but I have found it useful.
 I have wondered if there is a proper place to stand - and the guys that 'taught' me never really had an answer. In fact - predominantly the two gents wanted me to stand behind the line to ball spot - which is what I did. I then discovered that some others didn't like this and asked me to stand 'anywhere else'- so i did that. 
I have no view on whether there is a universally accepted correct place or not - if there is - great. I'll use that as default - however, I'd be pretty certain that there is someone out there whom would find that spot distracting and ask me to go somewhere else. Thats people for you! I would generally have no problem standing wherever the FC wants me to (within reason) its not something that would bother me, but if it makes life easier for them - no problem


----------



## dewsweeper (Jan 8, 2014)

I used to play snooker with a friend who would rush to stand at which ever pocket he thought I was about to attempt a pot.
It became so irritating to me that I would change my shot and try to pot the ball before he could rush around the table.
Incidentally,when we played golf he would always want to stand in front of me up close and personal,and he was a twitcher to boot.
Dewsweeper


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 8, 2014)

40 pages on the way.


I was told by my old man, who is quite an old man these days to stand where these fine young upstanding gentlemen are saying we should stand.  this was primarily for my own safety.  I was only a nipper at the time. He warned me never to venture forward of someone teeing off. He told me that anywhere in 180 degrees would be safe but directly in line would be the safest. 

This was around the same time as he was teaching me course etiquette. I don't recall him saying it was good etiquette to do this, he only reiterated that it was for safety. this was something you have to drum into a hyperactive (5/6/7 year old ????). Especially when they would one day be heading out to play with other hyperactive youngsters. 

Even now I get a bit shifty if a FC or myself are standing in front of the guy teeing off.  This does happen quite a bit. Sometimes due to path restrictions, sometimes just for no reason. 


Maybe it was a tradition in times gone by. Those heady days of landlords and rich men who had all day to play this fine game.  Fast forward to todays  8 minute tee times and you are already onto a loser having to wait for everyone to reach every tee together and actually be ready to play and stand in the correct position and wait and shuffle over for podge to hit his left handed shot and shuffle back over for scouser to play his and shuffle over for podge to hit his provisional and scouser likewise.   You see where I am going with this. 


Maybe this was the way back in time a bit. It certainly isn't the case at most clubs up and down the country. People stand nearest their bags. This means they can get to their ball quickly and keep a good pace of play.

People certainly shouldn't be castigated for not observing this old tradition, if that's what we are calling it. :thup:


----------



## Snelly (Jan 8, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			When the R&A write it in the etiquette section, I'll accept it, until then it is just the opinion of some people.
		
Click to expand...


It isn't just the opinion of some people though is it?  It is the way it was, the way it should be and the way you should have been taught when you were a beginner.  

It is traditionally, where you are supposed to stand.  This is a fact. Not an opinion.  Whether the R&A write it down won't change this. 

I don't care where you or anyone else stands when I play under normal circumstances.  However, having read this thread, I think I might start being a bit more particular on the issue and ask people to stand where they should.  I am all for educating the terminally pig-ignorant.  It could be one of my New Years resolutions in fact......

Some people are doubtless beyond help on this but others could be converted to the true way.


----------



## El Bandito (Jan 8, 2014)

And off we go again.....


----------



## In_The_Rough (Jan 8, 2014)

El Bandito said:



			And off we go again.....
		
Click to expand...

:rofl: I know, I am supposed to be teeing off at 1.30pm do know what I am going to miss here as yesterday was great entertainment


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 8, 2014)

Snelly said:



			It isn't just the opinion of some people though is it?  It is the way it was, the way it should be and the way you should have been taught when you were a beginner.  

It is traditionally, where you are supposed to stand.  This is a fact. Not an opinion.  Whether the R&A write it down won't change this. 

I don't care where you or anyone else stands when I play under normal circumstances.  However, having read this thread, I think I might start being a bit more particular on the issue and ask people to stand where they should.  I am all for educating the terminally pig-ignorant.  It could be one of my New Years resolutions in fact......

Some people are doubtless beyond help on this but others could be converted to the true way.
		
Click to expand...

Are you saying traditions cant change.
There no true way,it should be the safest way.


----------



## DCB (Jan 8, 2014)

And, where do you get your opponents to stand when you're on the tee if you're that fussy about where your partner stands


----------



## BTatHome (Jan 8, 2014)

On the first tee at my club if everyone was told to stand opposite the person playing then it would be hilarious to watch them struggling up the bank .... and what about those playing in the next group, are they to do the same (or do they not count) ?

Sorry but even after seeing all these pages I can't for the life of me think of any reason at all why you want me to stand opposite you rather than behind you (not behind the line). It makes no sense at all, and quite frankly if you asked me to move from behind to opposite you then it would be a very frosty round of golf and we probably wouldn't even make it beyond the first hole !


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 8, 2014)

Snelly said:



			And I am telling you that you have been ignorant in your golfing career to date as actually, there is a proper place to stand when on the tee and others are teeing off.   I am sorry if that is an uncomfortable truth. 

I can't quite understand why you and others with the same view aren't just accepting that you have learned something new that you no-one has told you about before.  You are now enlightened.  Every day is a school day.  Embrace your new knowledge and stand where you are supposed to from now on.


Or carry on as you are.   I don't really care.  But perhaps you could at least accept that you now know that there is a proper place to stand, even if you choose to disregard it and carry on as you are?
		
Click to expand...

Love it - I thought about posting these thoughts but decided I had suffered enough slagging off already


----------



## Robobum (Jan 8, 2014)

Snelly said:



			It isn't just the opinion of some people though is it?  It is the way it was, the way it should be and the way you should have been taught when you were a beginner.  

It is traditionally, where you are supposed to stand.  This is a fact. Not an opinion.  Whether the R&A write it down won't change this. 

I don't care where you or anyone else stands when I play under normal circumstances.  However, having read this thread, I think I might start being a bit more particular on the issue and ask people to stand where they should.  I am all for educating the terminally pig-ignorant.  It could be one of my New Years resolutions in fact......

Some people are doubtless beyond help on this but others could be converted to the true way.
		
Click to expand...

We're you deliberately standing in the wrong place on some tees down @ Hayling. 

The convo about what we would do to Kylie Minogue was more distracting than you standing behind the line. Neither were an excuse for the necky waft I hit though


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 8, 2014)

exactly,  if you guys are telling me hand on heart you always stand facing your fc then I doff my cap to you.   otherwise please dismount from those high horses!


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 8, 2014)

On the other hand, I may now ask any one standing in this 'correct' area to move somewhere else. Just because I can, and I now know it will annoy them!


----------



## One Planer (Jan 8, 2014)

murphthemog said:



			On the other hand, I may now ask any one standing in this 'correct' area to move somewhere else. Just because I can, and I now know it will annoy them!
		
Click to expand...

:rofl:


----------



## davidy233 (Jan 8, 2014)

Robobum said:



			We're you deliberately standing in the wrong place on some tees down @ Hayling. 

The convo about what we would do to Kylie Minogue was more distracting than you standing behind the line. Neither were an excuse for the necky waft I hit though 

Click to expand...

Just had a scoot through Snelly's recent posts - even more entertaining than this thread - top quality trolling 

I won't have to sneek a peek at my father in law's Daily Mail this week now


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 8, 2014)

My opinion is fact..

No, my opinion is fact..

NO, MY OPINION IS FACT.....

NO, MY OPINION IS FACT....

Sorry, just remembering a couple of kids fighting in the playground this morning when I dropped the kids off at school... Quite funny I thought. They'll not act like that when they grow up.. Then I remembered this thread and my heart sank a little.. Then I remembered that I'm not working all next week and my heart soared like an eagle........Lovely......


----------



## john0 (Jan 8, 2014)

This thread just keeps on giving


----------



## cleanstrike (Jan 8, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			My opinion is fact..

No, my opinion is fact..

NO, MY OPINION IS FACT.....

NO, MY OPINION IS FACT....

Sorry, just remembering a couple of kids fighting in the playground this morning when I dropped the kids off at school... Quite funny I thought. They'll not act like that when they grow up.. Then I remembered this thread and my heart sank a little.. Then I remembered that I'm not working all next week and my heart soared like an eagle........Lovely...... 


Click to expand...


It's often said that men are really big kids at heart. Most of this thread proves that old adage, doesn't it.


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 8, 2014)

cleanstrike said:



			It's often said that men are really big kids at heart. Most of this thread proves that old adage, doesn't it.  

Click to expand...

It's beautiful to see isn't it? Kind of heartwarming and reminds me of the old adage - We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. Lots of young at heart on this forum... Myself included obviously..


----------



## Allanxyz (Jan 8, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			40 pages on the way.

Maybe this was the way back in time a bit. It certainly isn't the case at most clubs up and down the country. *People stand nearest their bags*. This means they can get to their ball quickly and keep a good pace of play.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly this.....



Snelly said:



			I can't quite understand why you and others with the same view aren't just accepting that you have learned something new that you no-one has told you about before. You are now enlightened. Every day is a school day. Embrace your new knowledge and stand where you are supposed to from now on.
		
Click to expand...

Youâ€™re right, I have learnt something new reading your postsâ€¦. Oh wait, I think Iâ€™ve read some of them beforeâ€¦


----------



## richart (Jan 8, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			When the R&A write it in the etiquette section, I'll accept it, until then it is just the opinion of some people.
		
Click to expand...

 If you played with me and stood behind me on the tee without being asked to (hitting into a low sun is the only time I would) I would ask you to move. I am just uncomfortable with some one standing there. From memory I can't remember ever having to do so, so presumably most golfers do know where to stand. When I started playing in the 70's everyone stood to the side, so it is what I feel comfortable with. If someone stood behind they would have been swiftly told to move.


----------



## Robobum (Jan 8, 2014)

Just looking at our track and the insistence on standing facing the player on the tee (right handers)

1   Flowerbed
2   In a hedge
3   Down a bank
4   Ok
5   Ok
6  Down a bank
7  Have to climb over a fence
8   Ok
9   Ok
10 Ok
11 Ok
12 Ok
13 Down a 4 ft slope
14 Ok
15 Ok
16 In a farmerâ€™s field
17 In a neighbours back garden
18 Ok


----------



## richart (Jan 8, 2014)

Robobum said:



			We're you deliberately standing in the wrong place on some tees down @ Hayling. 

The convo about what we would do to Kylie Minogue was more distracting than you standing behind the line. Neither were an excuse for the necky waft I hit though 

Click to expand...

 I think you hit before we were ready for you. I seem to remember I was introducing the virtues of the more attractive Minogue when you rudely teed off.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 8, 2014)

BTatHome said:



			On the first tee at my club if everyone was told to stand opposite the person playing then it would be hilarious to watch them struggling up the bank .... and what about those playing in the next group, are they to do the same (or do they not count) ?

Sorry but even after seeing all these pages *I can't for the life of me think of any reason at all why you want me to stand opposite you rather than behind you (not behind the line).* It makes no sense at all, and quite frankly if you asked me to move from behind to opposite you then it would be a very frosty round of golf and we probably wouldn't even make it beyond the first hole !
		
Click to expand...

Well - as you asked - let's say you are standing behind me.  I do not know precisely where you are standing - and I cannot see or have any sense about what you are doing.  Are you fiddling with your clubs? are you about to take one out of the bag?; quietly taking off a rain jacket? etc.  None of this I can see but you could be doing - and you could accidentally make a noise.  Also you might be standing in a position that were I to recklessly let go my club or take a step back and take a wild swing after mucking up I could hit you.  All these things I do not know.  In life none of us like to think there are things going on behind or back.  We can feel uncomfortable.  

Now *you *might not think these are very much in the way of reasons - but when I am on the tee what *you * think or feel is secondary to what the plate teeing off thinks or feels.  He might not be bothered - but hey - why not just stand where he can be aware of you at all times?

And why would you take such a negative view if I asked you to move? Is it not courtesy to do as the player about to play asks?  If for whatever reason I decide to ask you to move from standing behind me I would expect you to move.  And if you understand (as you do now) that actually where you were standing could indeed result in you being asked to move then you would surely have no issue - surely?


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 8, 2014)

richart said:



			If you played with me and stood behind me on the tee without being asked to (hitting into a low sun is the only time I would) I would ask you to move. I am just uncomfortable with some one standing there. From memory I can't remember ever having to do so, so presumably most golfers do know where to stand. When I started playing in the 70's everyone stood to the side, so it is what I feel comfortable with. If someone stood behind they would have been swiftly told to move.
		
Click to expand...

Would you be OK if someone stood to the side, but 5 yards behind you? So they weren't stood on the line of intended target, but they were stood out of sight, quietly, without moving.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 8, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			exactly,  if you guys are telling me hand on heart you always stand facing your fc then I doff my cap to you.   otherwise please dismount from those high horses!
		
Click to expand...

I always try and stand facing my fc - always.  If it is not practical for me to do so I will stand elsewhere well out of the way.


----------



## davidy233 (Jan 8, 2014)

Here's mine - we have paths down the side of the tee - if you are on the path then:

1. Wrong side
2. OK
3.OK
4. OK
5. OK
6. OK
7. Wrong side
8. Wrong side
9. Wrong side
10. OK
11. Wrong side
12. No path at side of back tee - so optional if you want to be OK or wrong side
13. Wrong side
14. Wrong side
15. OK
16. OK
17. OK
18. Ok

These stats for a right hander on the tee - flip for a led hander


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 8, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			exactly,  if you guys are telling me hand on heart you always stand facing your fc then I doff my cap to you.   otherwise please dismount from those high horses!
		
Click to expand...

Actually I do - just because that's where I stand - unless it is impractical for me to do so.  And yes - this means I often find myself walking across the tee ground from where I have left my bag to stand at that side.   But it is the natural thing for me to do. I feel a little awkward standing anywhere else.


----------



## Robobum (Jan 8, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I always try and stand facing my fc - always.  If it is not practical for me to do so I will stand elsewhere well out of the way.
		
Click to expand...

And that is what everyone else does too - if practicable.

Eg - I am at my bag 15yds behind you away from the tee. Lets all wait for Robo to get in the right position or just peg it up and go?


----------



## Robobum (Jan 8, 2014)

richart said:



			I think you hit before we were ready for you. I seem to remember I was introducing the virtues of the more attractive Minogue when you rudely teed off.

Click to expand...

Sorry Rich - hair trigger!! A constant issue.......apparently!!!!


----------



## richart (Jan 8, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Would you be OK if someone stood to the side, but 5 yards behind you? So they weren't stood on the line of intended target, but they were stood out of sight, quietly, without moving.
		
Click to expand...

 No problem. It is just standing directly behind. I feel they are lining up my shot.and it makes me nervous.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 8, 2014)

Robobum said:



			And that is what everyone else does too - if practicable.
		
Click to expand...

It seems not.  As my insistence that it was good etiquette to stand facing the player teeing off (unless impractical) has been roundly dismissed - which really surprised me.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 8, 2014)

richart said:



			No problem. It is just standing directly behind. I feel they are lining up my shot.and it makes me nervous.

Click to expand...

Exactly sir!


----------



## Robobum (Jan 8, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			It seems not.  As my insistence that it was good etiquette to stand facing the player teeing off (unless impractical) has been roundly dismissed - which really surprised me.
		
Click to expand...

You've chosen to miss out a big chunk of my post. It's that part which people are finding ridiculous in your argument


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 8, 2014)

richart said:



			If you played with me and stood behind me on the tee without being asked to (hitting into a low sun is the only time I would) I would ask you to move. I am just uncomfortable with some one standing there. From memory I can't remember ever having to do so, so presumably most golfers do know where to stand. When I started playing in the 70's everyone stood to the side, so it is what I feel comfortable with. If someone stood behind they would have been swiftly told to move.
		
Click to expand...

When you say behind, I assume you mean behind the ball, looking down the line? In which case, I wouldn't stand there, it's bad etiquette according to the R&A. If however you were playing in a direction that meant I was behind you, i.e. facing your back. I would stay there, keep still and be quiet unless you asked me to move, that is not bad etiquette according to the R&A.


----------



## JamesR (Jan 8, 2014)

I think too many people are thinking too much about too many things in their golf.

Just stand somewhere not in the way, but you can see what's going on. So you can assist your playing partner find his/her ball, if they don't see where it goes. Then get on with your own shot in good time.


----------



## davidy233 (Jan 8, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			It seems not.  As my insistence that it was good etiquette to stand facing the player teeing off (unless impractical) has been roundly dismissed - which really surprised me.
		
Click to expand...

I'd suggest that nearly all fellow competitors already face the person driving off - it's the sensible thing to do as you are watching them to see where their ball goes (no point in facing away if you want to see that) - they just don't stand in the place you rigidly said they should - i.e.: directly opposite to the player.


----------



## Robobum (Jan 8, 2014)

As another, I give you the Back tee on the 4th @ Bristol & Clifton - thorn bushes, nettles and blackberry bushes on all three sides of the tee. The blocks fill the full width - common sense (fortunately) breaks out and we stand behind the line of the ball as far back as we can get - convention breaking horror!!


----------



## One Planer (Jan 8, 2014)

Robobum said:



			And that is what everyone else does too - if practicable.

Eg - I am at my bag 15yds behind you away from the tee. Lets all wait for Robo to get in the right position or just peg it up and go?
		
Click to expand...

Hallelujah!!


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 8, 2014)

richart said:



			No problem. It is just standing directly behind. I feel they are lining up my shot.and it makes me nervous.

Click to expand...

Which is where I think this discussion has gone off track. I will always endeavor to stand to the side and slightly behind the person teeing off. If they want me behind them (facing down the line) to spot the flight of the ball, then I'll move. I don't feel comfortable stood directly opposite someone as I feel like I am in their sightline. 

If I was playing with SILH, then I'd stand wherever he would prefer. However, I do not think that the "one and only" best place to stand is directly in front of the person teeing off. I do think that everyone has a different idea of where they are most comfortable with their PP standing when they are teeing off. I want to make sure that  I respect that difference of opinion. In future, I may ask my PP's (If I don't know them personally) where they would prefer me to stand.....:thup:


----------



## Snelly (Jan 8, 2014)

Allanxyz said:



			Youâ€™re right, I have learnt something new reading your postsâ€¦. Oh wait, I think Iâ€™ve read some of them beforeâ€¦
		
Click to expand...

No doubt.  The reason for this is because the inexorably stupid often need to be told more than once.


----------



## Allanxyz (Jan 8, 2014)

Snelly said:



			No doubt. The reason for this is because the inexorably stupid often need to be told more than once.
		
Click to expand...

Here you go then...

Youâ€™re right, I have learnt something new reading your postsâ€¦. Oh wait, I think Iâ€™ve read some of them beforeâ€¦


----------



## john0 (Jan 8, 2014)

Allanxyz said:



			Here you go then...

Youâ€™re right, I have learnt something new reading your postsâ€¦. Oh wait, I think Iâ€™ve read some of them beforeâ€¦
		
Click to expand...

.


----------



## vkurup (Jan 8, 2014)

Why is this so difficult... Just stand out of the players vision radius i.e. 

1) Not close by in the 12 - 7pm range
2) Close by in the 7pm - 10pm range (but far enuf to avoid being hit by the club)

In both cases, keep you mouth shut and dont move around...


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Jan 8, 2014)

vkurup said:



			Why is this so difficult... Just stand out of the players vision radius i.e. 

1) Not close by in the 12 - 7pm range
2) Close by in the 7pm - 10pm range (but far enuf to avoid being hit by the club)

In both cases, keep you mouth shut and dont move around...
		
Click to expand...

Woahh, where is your 12pm? And what do we do between 10pm and 12pm?

Also, this doesn't cover what to do in the mornings, is it the same?


----------



## vkurup (Jan 8, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Woahh, where is your 12pm? And what do we do between 10pm and 12pm?
		
Click to expand...

12Oclock.. straight down the line...     I think I shld ammend

1) Not close by in the 10 O'clock - 7 O'clock range  (assuming 12 O'Clock is down the line of the shot being made)
2) Close by in the 7 O'clock - 10 O'clock range (but far enuf to avoid being hit by the club)



CheltenhamHacker said:



			Also, this doesn't cover what to do in the mornings, is it the same?
		
Click to expand...

Classic.. :whoo:


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 8, 2014)

vkurup said:



			Why is this so difficult... Just stand out of the players vision radius i.e. 

1) Not close by in the 12 - 7pm range
2) Close by in the 7pm - 10pm range (but far enuf to avoid being hit by the club)

In both cases, keep you mouth shut and dont move around...
		
Click to expand...

 Is 9pm south, north or North,north west of 12pm? Thanks.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 8, 2014)

vkurup said:



			12Oclock.. straight down the line...     I think I shld ammend

1) Not close by in the 10 O'clock - 7 O'clock range  (assuming 12 O'Clock is down the line of the shot being made)
2) Close by in the 7 O'clock - 10 O'clock range (but far enuf to avoid being hit by the club)
		
Click to expand...


Surely if 12 o'clock represents straight down the fairway then you should stand either between 3 and 5 or 7 and 9, depending on what is more convenient, for the following reasons.......

1) Anywhere between 9 and 3 (going clockwise) is in front of the ball where you could be hit
2) Between 5 and 7 (going clockwise) is behind and looking down the line. Of course this is dependent on a playing partner asking you to stand there.

And all of the above is dependent on whether you are playing with SILH or DfT who will insist that you stand at 21 minutes past 3 at all times.


----------



## ADB (Jan 8, 2014)

This complex subject could be solved by 'Player Observational Zones' at each tee marked out like GUR for those waiting to play - avoids any confusion....


----------



## SocketRocket (Jan 8, 2014)

When I walk onto the tee I pay little attention to where people stand, I just prefer them to keep still and quiet.   If someone was a little close I may make sure they were not in hitting distance.   Other than that I dont' really give a damn.

Although mentioned earlier in jest, standing directly in front of some people could certainly bring on 'death by shanking'


----------



## Rooter (Jan 8, 2014)

snaphookwedge said:



			This complex subject could be solved by 'Player Observational Zones' at each tee marked out like GUR for those waiting to play - avoids any confusion....
		
Click to expand...

That is a great idea! however, it should be called the Kosher Named Observation Ball Space and should be sprayed in white paint in the specified KNOBS zone.


----------



## cookelad (Jan 8, 2014)

snaphookwedge said:



			This complex subject could be solved by 'Player Observational Zones' at each tee marked out like GUR for those waiting to play - avoids any confusion....
		
Click to expand...

Didn't slab suggest his course was already doing something similar in his post at 4 this morning? I assumed he was kidding at the time but it's starting to look more and more like the way forward.


----------



## Robobum (Jan 8, 2014)

Rooter said:



			That is a great idea! however, it should be called the Kosher Named Observation Ball Space and should be sprayed in white paint in the specified KNOBS zone.
		
Click to expand...

Like this :thup:


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 8, 2014)

Robobum said:



			Like this :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Can they play in the KOKs comp.


----------



## Fish (Jan 8, 2014)

cookelad said:



			Didn't slab suggest his course was already doing something similar in his post at 4 this morning? I assumed he was kidding at the time but it's starting to look more and more like the way forward.
		
Click to expand...

Surely its not workable, what if you tee up on the right because you fade, or the left because you draw, or right in the middle of the tee box because you think your straight!  Surely that would affect the position of the rest of the group and then you've got left handers to take into consideration, everyone would be shuffling about after each shot! So, a simple grid or an American idiot guide wouldn't work and shouldn't be needed!


----------



## ADB (Jan 8, 2014)

Rooter said:



			That is a great idea! however, it should be called the Kosher Named Observation Ball Space and should be sprayed in white paint in the specified KNOBS zone.
		
Click to expand...

Don't make fun of my serious proposal............


----------



## cookelad (Jan 8, 2014)

Fish said:



			Surely its not workable, what if you tee up on the right because you fade, or the left because you draw, or right in the middle of the tee box because you think your straight!  Surely that would affect the position of the rest of the group and then you've got left handers to take into consideration, everyone would be shuffling about after each shot! So, a simple grid or an American idiot guide wouldn't work and shouldn't be needed!
		
Click to expand...

You're quite correct, maybe we should all be left to use our own common sense about where would be a safe non-invasive place stand while our friends our teeing off after all!


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 8, 2014)

Robobum said:



			You've chosen to miss out a big chunk of my post. It's that part which people are finding ridiculous in your argument
		
Click to expand...

Which bit?  Where you tee of before everyone has reached the tee?  Well obviously it depends on the context as you probably shouldn't tee off in a match or competition before everyone has caught up - especially if the laggard is an opponent.  But in any other circumstances of course you would.  But that's another matter.  All like myself are saying is that when players are at a tee and a player is about to play then....


----------



## vkurup (Jan 8, 2014)

I am surprised that we even after 450 comments and 12 pages.. we have addressed the needs of left hand players....  Surely you will need to spray KNOB zone on both sides...


----------



## Rooter (Jan 8, 2014)

williamalex1 said:



			Can they play in the KOKs comp.

Click to expand...

Now you are just being silly! I was thinking of naming it the Certified Union No Talking zone. Pics of people waiting in it could be amusing...


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 8, 2014)

Robobum said:



			As another, I give you the Back tee on the 4th @ Bristol & Clifton - thorn bushes, nettles and blackberry bushes on all three sides of the tee. The blocks fill the full width - common sense (fortunately) breaks out and we stand behind the line of the ball as far back as we can get - convention breaking horror!!
		
Click to expand...

Please - I and others have clearly stated that the convention does not apply if it is impractical for it to do so.  Come on - this is easy - why such arguments against and discussions about doing something that is so simple to adopt.


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 8, 2014)

Rooter said:



			Now you are just being silly! I was thinking of naming it the Certified Union No Talking zone. Pics of people waiting in it could be amusing...
		
Click to expand...

Silly Billy me :rofl:


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 8, 2014)

Just did an unrepresentative survey of one golfer (my 21 yr old lad - very, very occasional player these days).  I asked him where he would stand if I was teeing off.  His answer.  "facing you - level or just back a bit (towards the back of the tee)"  I asked him if he'd stand behind me (looking at my back) - his reply "well obviously not as you might feel uncomfortable with me standing there".  What about towards the back of the tee looking down my line "nah - unless you wanted me to watch where your shot went"

That's my boy


----------



## Robobum (Jan 8, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Please - I and others have clearly stated that the *convention* does not apply if it is impractical for it to do so.  Come on - this is easy - why such arguments against and discussions about doing something that is so simple to adopt.
		
Click to expand...

Stop with that bollox - please 

I've paid you credit for standing your ground and you don't seem to want to consider anyone else's views on such a trivial (500 post) matter.

IF practical, I will stand opposite the person on the tee. Not diametrically so necessarily.

IF it is more practical to stand behind them or to the back of the tee I will do so. I will be standing far enough away not to be encroaching on them or their swing. I will also stay still and quiet.

IF my judgment of where to stand wasn't spot on and I am asked to move, I will (if possible)

However, if the player is being unreasonable and they want me to stand in the next county then I will sarcastically enquire whether they are being serious and suggest they may want to get on with it.

Although saying that, I am a novice of only 15 years or so of playing the game at various clubs, all of which have been traditional members clubs.


----------



## ger147 (Jan 8, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Please - I and others have clearly stated that the convention does not apply if it is impractical for it to do so.  Come on - this is easy - why such arguments against and discussions about doing something that is so simple to adopt.
		
Click to expand...

I'll stick to what the R&A say on the matter.


----------



## Imurg (Jan 8, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Please - I and others have clearly stated that the convention does not apply if it is impractical for it to do so.  Come on - this is easy - why such arguments against and discussions about doing something that is so simple to adopt.
		
Click to expand...

If the path lading to the tee Finishes at the 9 o'clock side (12 being down the line of the shot/fairway) how long would it take for a path to appear across the teeing ground as we all walk across to the other side so we can face you while you play?
With ground conditions as they are the teeing ground would be knackered in no time - at least 7 (sometimes more depending on where the the markers are) of our tees arrive at the 9 o'clock side....


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 8, 2014)

Robobum said:



			Stop with that bollox - please 

I've paid you credit for standing your ground and you don't seem to want to consider anyone else's views on such a trivial (500 post) matter.

IF practical, I will stand opposite the person on the tee. Not diametrically so necessarily.

IF it is more practical to stand behind them or to the back of the tee I will do so. I will be standing far enough away not to be encroaching on them or their swing. I will also stay still and quiet.

IF my judgment of where to stand wasn't spot on and I am asked to move, I will (if possible)

However, if the player is being unreasonable and they want me to stand in the next county then I will sarcastically enquire whether they are being serious and suggest they may want to get on with it.

Although saying that, I am a novice of only 15 years or so of playing the game at various clubs, all of which have been traditional members clubs.
		
Click to expand...

Not bollox IMO - anyway I completely agree with your summary about where you would stand.  Why? Because as you say - in the first instance...




			IF practical, I will stand opposite the person on the tee. Not diametrically so necessarily.
		
Click to expand...

..and that is all there is to it - you know the most appropriate place to stand - if you can.  

There just seem to be many who don't think they need do this when *in days past* it was accepted (or call it convention, respect, etiquette, best practice, courtesy - all amounts to the same thing) as being what you did.

And I am afraid that I can't really do anything but 'stand my ground' because I can't deny either what I was taught or what I have observed and experienced over the years. If folk these days want to say that that was all a load of tosh and think that it's OK to stand where they want - then that is their prerogative.  I just think they are mistaken in their thinking and have only been trying to suggest what they might think about doing as a better alternative.


----------



## BTatHome (Jan 8, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well - as you asked - let's say you are standing behind me.  I do not know precisely where you are standing - and I cannot see or have any sense about what you are doing.  Are you fiddling with your clubs? are you about to take one out of the bag?; quietly taking off a rain jacket? etc.  None of this I can see but you could be doing - and you could accidentally make a noise.  Also you might be standing in a position that were I to recklessly let go my club or take a step back and take a wild swing after mucking up I could hit you.  All these things I do not know.  In life none of us like to think there are things going on behind or back.  We can feel uncomfortable.  

Now *you *might not think these are very much in the way of reasons - but when I am on the tee what *you * think or feel is secondary to what the plate teeing off thinks or feels.  He might not be bothered - but hey - why not just stand where he can be aware of you at all times?

And why would you take such a negative view if I asked you to move? Is it not courtesy to do as the player about to play asks?  If for whatever reason I decide to ask you to move from standing behind me I would expect you to move.  And if you understand (as you do now) that actually where you were standing could indeed result in you being asked to move then you would surely have no issue - surely?
		
Click to expand...

So you don't like me standing out of site behind you in case I make a noise that you weren't expecting ... But your ok with me standing opposite you out of sight (I assume you want me out of your sight here) were you clearly think it's not possible to make a noise?

I'm going to ignore the flying club etc as that just seems too incredible for me to contemplate.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 8, 2014)

BTatHome said:



			So you don't like me standing out of site behind you in case I make a noise that you weren't expecting ... But your ok with me standing opposite you out of sight (I assume you want me out of your sight here) were you clearly think it's not possible to make a noise?

I'm going to ignore the flying club etc as that just seems too incredible for me to contemplate.
		
Click to expand...

Yes - standing facing me you are not out of sight - I know exactly where you are and what you are doing


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 8, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			exactly,  if you guys are telling me hand on heart you always stand facing your fc then I doff my cap to you.   otherwise please dismount from those high horses!
		
Click to expand...


Garry and others of that ilk.......... NOBODY is saying that.

PS I liked your earlier thread.

PPS I have seen a few snapped shafts, flying clubheads and slipped grips in my time. Not recently though.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 8, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Just did an unrepresentative survey of one golfer (my 21 yr old lad - very, very occasional player these days).  I asked him where he would stand if I was teeing off.  His answer.  "facing you - level or just back a bit (towards the back of the tee)"  I asked him if he'd stand behind me (looking at my back) - his reply "well obviously not as you might feel uncomfortable with me standing there".  What about towards the back of the tee looking down my line "nah - unless you wanted me to watch where your shot went"

That's my boy 

Click to expand...

The funniest part about this is that it isn't the weakest piece of supporting evidence you've put forward


----------



## Imurg (Jan 8, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Yes - standing facing me you are not out of sight - I know exactly where you are and what you are doing 

Click to expand...

Why are you worrying about what people standing around you are doing? You should be concentrating on playing the shot not on the possibility that someone will make a noise and put you off....


----------



## tsped83 (Jan 8, 2014)

I am truly staggered by this thread. WOW. 

As as long as you're giving me enough room and aren't in my eye line, stand where you like, couldn't care less. At our place, from casual observations, everyone stands looking down the fairway, at the back of the tee. CONTROVERSIAL!!! Or, who gives a toss??


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 8, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Yes - standing facing me you are not out of sight - I know exactly where you are and what you are doing 

Click to expand...

If you were as adamant and particular on the course as you have been in this thread I'd probably be standing facing you just out of your peripheral vision making a "shaking coffee beans" hand gesture towards you.


----------



## Fish (Jan 8, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			If you were as adamant and particular on the course as you have been in this thread I'd probably be standing facing you just out of your peripheral vision making a "shaking coffee beans" hand gesture towards you. 

Click to expand...

Tissues required, wet key board has ensued from spitting out tea :rofl:


----------



## Lincoln Quaker (Jan 8, 2014)

tsped83 said:



			I am truly staggered by this thread. WOW. 

As as long as you're giving me enough room and aren't in my eye line, stand where you like, couldn't care less. At our place, from casual observations, everyone stands looking down the fairway, at the back of the tee. CONTROVERSIAL!!! Or, who gives a toss??
		
Click to expand...

I finally agree on this thread! Well said


----------



## BTatHome (Jan 8, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Yes - standing facing me you are not out of sight - I know exactly where you are and what you are doing 

Click to expand...

Yet, standing down the line is a no-no because ? .... I'm in your peripheral vision?


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 8, 2014)

And Mr Arnold Palmer has a view on this too :thup:
http://www.golfdigest.com/magazine/arniesrules

V. Be a silent partner

During one of my last tour events as a player, I noticed another pro making practice swings in my field of vision as I was getting ready to hit a shot. I stopped, walked over and reminded him (maybe too sternly) that it was my turn to play. The point is, stand still from the time a player sets himself until the ball has left the club.

Even with the advent of spikeless shoes, the etiquette rule of never walking in someone's line of play on the putting green is an absolute. The area around the hole in particular is sacred ground. The first thing to note when you walk onto a green is the location of every ball in your group, then steer clear of their lines to the hole.

Know where to stand and when to keep quiet.* Position yourself directly across or at a diagonal from a player setting up*. Never stand on the line of play, either beyond the hole or directly behind the ball. When a player is about to hit a shot, think of the fairway as a cathedral, the green a library.



Read More http://www.golfdigest.com/magazine/arniesrules#ixzz2ppryZUU5


----------



## Robobum (Jan 8, 2014)

Oh my word, how is Ivor Robson or the fellow competitors supposed to follow convention here?

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/61543000/jpg/_61543098_scottish_open_castle_stuart.jpg

Scotland is supposed to be the birthplace of gowf - you think they would allow space for this convention to take place


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 8, 2014)

Has anyone produced a diagram yet to ensure the uneducated amongst us are corrected ?


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 8, 2014)

BTatHome said:



			Yet, standing down the line is a no-no because ?
		
Click to expand...

The R&A say you shouldnt.


----------



## NWJocko (Jan 8, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Not bollox IMO - anyway I completely agree with your summary about where you would stand.  Why? Because as you say - in the first instance...



..and that is all there is to it - you know the most appropriate place to stand - if you can.  

There just seem to be many who don't think they need do this when *in days past* it was accepted (or call it convention, respect, etiquette, best practice, courtesy - all amounts to the same thing) as being what you did.

And I am afraid that I can't really do anything but 'stand my ground' because I can't deny either what I was taught or what I have observed and experienced over the years. If folk these days want to say that that was all a load of tosh and think that it's OK to stand where they want - then that is their prerogative.  I just think they are mistaken in their thinking and have only been trying to suggest what they might think about doing as a better alternative.
		
Click to expand...

The last bit is what stirs up all this nonsense SILH.

You are trying to force your opinion on people as correct, by saying things like "suggest what they might think about as a BETTER alternative." It's not necessarily better or worse, just an alternative and a choice, within reason.

Most people on this thread are, to varying degrees, agreeing with you but you still persist with your fairly patronising I know best attitude.

When your neighbour suggested an alternative to you blaring your music out I seem to recall you being up in arms about it, no?


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Has anyone produced a diagram yet to ensure the uneducated amongst us are corrected ?
		
Click to expand...

Video here, relevant bit at 25 secs :thup:

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Etiquette/Consideration-for-Others.aspx


----------



## LanDog (Jan 8, 2014)

I can't believe that this has reached 48 pages worth of discussion


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 8, 2014)

LanDog said:



			I can't believe that this has reached 48 pages worth of discussion
		
Click to expand...

It will be 49 if you keep posting complete twaddle


----------



## Fish (Jan 8, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			The last bit is what stirs up all this nonsense SILH.

You are trying to force your opinion on people as correct, by saying things like "suggest what they might think about as a BETTER alternative." It's not necessarily better or worse, just an alternative and a choice, within reason.

Most people on this thread are, to varying degrees, agreeing with you but you still persist with your fairly patronising I know best attitude.

When your neighbour suggested an alternative to you blaring your music out I seem to recall you being up in arms about it, no?
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 8, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Video here, relevant bit at 25 secs :thup:

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Etiquette/Consideration-for-Others.aspx

Click to expand...


But that guy is not directly opposite the player !! Confused.com


----------



## BTatHome (Jan 8, 2014)

Kellfire said:



			The R&A say you shouldnt.
		
Click to expand...

True, sorry but I got caught up in the fact that I need to be visible at all times in case I'm naughty.


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But that guy is not directly opposite the player !! Confused.com 

Click to expand...

He's heard that Padraig has an occasional S.....


----------



## hovis (Jan 8, 2014)

This has to be a forum record for the most pages in the shortest time.  Lets keep it going..... What do you folks think about 28 handicapers hitting 300 yard drives ? 

Seriously though I think when a pp is on the tee you stay quiet and no fidgeting.  If my pp said " any chance you can shift? Your putting me off?"  then no problem.  however, when i'm on the tee I have no problems with pp's talking, laughing or moving about.doesnt putt me off at all.  this makes my pp's laugh though as when i'm on the fairway I can't have a pp's ball in my view. Makes my eyes wonder


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 8, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			He's heard that Padraig has an occasional S.....

Click to expand...


But that video throws up all sorts of problems because Padraig doesn't have the guy standing at the "universally accepted" position


----------



## IM01 (Jan 8, 2014)

murphthemog said:



			This.

If you want me to see where your ball went, this is the best place. If you want me to move, fine, but I may not be able to help much.
		
Click to expand...

Me too....


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 8, 2014)

in that video, there is no tee box behind him to stand on. he HAS to move and correct me if I am wrong, but he goes and stands next to his bag. 


if I can I will face someone to look at their swing. In the real world im probably rooting (quietly) in my bag for a tee or drink, pausing as they address the ball and hit. sometimes i'm caught in a silly statue pose as to not disturb the man on the tee. Other times im standing in the universally accepted position.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 8, 2014)

I can't believe the Jackson Pollocks on here. I have never knowingly worried about where I stand, other than to ensure my shadow doesn't encroach the area the FC is using. Other than that I stand where I like, keep still and keep quiet. I can honestly say by using this simple Homer approach (patent pending) I have never been asked to move in memory. All this crap about convention etc is rubbish. I was taught etiquette by the likes of Dan Maskell who knew a thing or too about decorum and upbringing. He never once said it was "convention" or had to be done in a certain way other than to do what I still do as above.

If I was being perfectly blunt and you were being so OCD about where you wanted me to stand I would suggest this would filter into other areas and if I'm honest I think there are probably more enjoyable partners to play with and I wouldn't be rushing to repeat the experience


----------



## Fish (Jan 8, 2014)

I'm going to be so paranoid now the next time I walk on the 1st tee, where we all usually stand still on the path BEHIND the person (his back) driving and then walk onto the tee block after he's duffed it  I'm going to walk past him whilst he's setting up over to the other side but, I have a feeling I will be told to get lost!!


----------



## vkurup (Jan 8, 2014)

When playing in the States, I had the urge to shout 'Mashed Potato' when my partner drives.  Should there be a distinction in the standing area between those who shout and those who are just watching. 

Shouters.. stand behind the player
Watchers... facing the player


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 8, 2014)

Fish said:



			I'm going to be so paranoid now the next time I walk on the 1st tee, where we all usually stand still on the path BEHIND the person (his back) driving and then walk onto the tee block after he's duffed it  I'm going to walk past him whilst he's setting up over to the other side but, I have a feeling I will be told to get lost!!
		
Click to expand...

I think there is going to be some fun on the next raft of forum meets.........


----------



## Lincoln Quaker (Jan 8, 2014)

vkurup said:



			When playing in the States, I had the urge to shout 'Mashed Potato' when my partner drives.  Should there be a distinction in the standing area between those who shout and those who are just watching. 

Shouters.. stand behind the player
Watchers... facing the player
		
Click to expand...

Bloody brilliant pmsl :rofl:


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 8, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think there is going to be some fun on the next raft of forum meets.........

Click to expand...

Exactly. If some people get stressed by PP's standing in the wrong place, just think how bad they're gonna be with Scouser stood behind them shouting out his Elephant story... There could be violence...


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 8, 2014)

From the piece by Palmer (linked provided in an earlier post)

_There are a hundred bits of etiquette I haven't mentioned, like laying the flagstick down carefully, tamping down spike marks when you're walking off a green, letting faster groups play through, and so on. All of these things are learned by observing, with a sharp eye and a considerate heart. Just know that golf has a way of returning favors, and every piece of etiquette you practice will be repaid tenfold_

I wonder what Arnold would say to me or think of me if I commented that as I had never seen 'a hundred bits of etiquette' written down anywhere and because of that those that I hadn't heard of didn't count for me.  I wonder what he'd say if I said that he was being anal and an a**e bothering about all that supposed etiquette stuff that I hadn't seen or heard of.  I wonder.


----------



## Allanxyz (Jan 8, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			From the piece by Palmer (linked provided in an earlier post)
I wonder what Arnold would say to me or think of me if I commented that as I had never seen 'a hundred bits of etiquette' written down anywhere and because of that those that I hadn't heard of didn't count for me.  I wonder what he'd say if I said that he was being anal and an a**e bothering about all that supposed etiquette stuff that I hadn't seen or heard of.  I wonder.
		
Click to expand...

He'd probably say "Can you pipe down, I'm preparing myself to pipe one down the middle... Oh and can you move 2 steps to the right please old chap..."


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 8, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I wonder what Arnold would say to me or think of me if I commented that as I had never seen 'a hundred bits of etiquette' written down anywhere and because of that those that I hadn't heard of didn't count for me.
		
Click to expand...

Well these that are written down in the R&A Rules aren't a bad start.....

1) Before leaving a bunker, players should carefully fill up and smooth over all holes and footprints made by them and any nearby made by others
2) Players should carefully repair any divot holes made by them and any damage to the putting green made by the impact of a ball
3) On completion of the hole by all players in the group, damage to the putting green caused by golf shoes should be repaired.
4) Players should avoid causing damage to the course by removing divots when taking practice swings or by hitting the head of a club into the ground, whether in anger or for any other reason.
5) Players should ensure that no damage is done to the putting green when putting down bags or the flagstick.
6) In order to avoid damaging the hole, players and caddies should not stand too close to the hole and should take care during the handling of the flagstick and the removal of a ball from the hole. 
7)The head of a club should not be used to remove a ball from the hole.
8) Players should not lean on their clubs when on the putting green, particularly when removing the ball from the hole.
9) The flagstick should be properly replaced in the hole before the players leave the putting green.
10) Local notices regulating the movement of golf carts should be strictly observed.
11) You should always play at a good pace. 
12)The committee may establish pace of play guidelines that all players should follow. 
13) It's a groupâ€™s responsibility to keep up with the group in front. 
14) If they lose a clear hole and delay the group behind, they should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group. 
15) Where a group has not lost a clear hole, but it is apparent that the group behind can play faster, they should also invite the faster moving group to overtake them.
16) You should always show consideration for other players on the course and take care not to not disturb their play by moving, talking or making unnecessary noise.
17) You should also ensure that any electronic devices taken onto the course don't distract other players.
17) Only tee your ball up when it's your turn to play 
18) Remember not to stand close to the ball, directly behind it, or directly behind the hole, when a player is about to swing.
19) On the putting green, you should be careful not stand on another playerâ€™s line of putt or, when he is putting, cast a shadow over his line.
20) And you should remain on or close to the putting green until all other players in the group have holed out.
21) In stroke play, if you're acting as a marker, on the way to the next tee you should, if necessary, check the score with the player concerned and record it.
22) Ensure that no one is standing close by or in a position to be hit by the club, the ball or any stones, pebbles, twigs or the like when they make a stroke or practice swing.
23) Wait until the players in front are out of range. 
24) Players should always alert greenstaff nearby or ahead when they are about to make a stroke that might endanger them.
25) If your ball's heading in a direction where there is a danger of it hitting someone, shout a warning immediately.The traditional word of warning is â€œforeâ€.

And I'm guessing that if I can find 25 in a quick 5 minute google then there are probably more than 100 written down and Mr Palmer would probably suggest to you that you go and read them all rather than making up your own rules on what is considered to be universally accepted or good etiquette.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 9, 2014)

But note the crucial point in what what Palmer said...

_All of these things are learned by observing, with a sharp eye and a considerate heart._

Nothing about etiquette having to be written down in that bit of advice.


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 9, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			But note the crucial point in what what Palmer said...

_All of these things are learned by observing, with a sharp eye and a considerate heart._

Nothing about etiquette having to be written down in that bit of advice.
		
Click to expand...

But, by the same logic, just because it isn't written down, doesn't make it right...


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 9, 2014)

Plans to adapt this thread into a blockbuster Hollywood film have been shelved as the plot was too far fetched.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 9, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			But note the crucial point in what what Palmer said...

_All of these things are learned by observing, with a sharp eye and a considerate heart._

Nothing about etiquette having to be written down in that bit of advice.
		
Click to expand...

I observe people standing on the side of the tee from which it is approached every single time I play. I have never seen anyone deliberately walk across the tee so as to be facing the player, they pretty much always stay by their bag. I have also never been told where to stand or even until this thread thought about it or had a look to see if it is written anywhere. I have just done as I observe and used a bit of common sense, the fact I have never been asked to move tells me that my etiquette is OK.


----------



## El Bandito (Jan 9, 2014)

:rofl::rofl:



North Mimms said:



			Plans to adapt this thread into a blockbuster Hollywood film have been shelved as the plot was too far fetched.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 9, 2014)

Why do so many folk have a problem with No18 on the etiquitte list.
In my entire golfing life only a handful of 'golfers' have ever stood there when on the tee and I would consider them to be either dim or rude if they did.


----------



## ger147 (Jan 9, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Why do so many folk have a problem with No18 on the etiquitte list.
In my entire golfing life only a handful of 'golfers' have ever stood there when on the tee and I would consider them to be either dim or rude if they did.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think people do have an issue with no.18 on the list, but you will note it does not say you must be facing the player teeing off.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 9, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Why do so many folk have a problem with No18 on the etiquitte list.
In my entire golfing life only a handful of 'golfers' have ever stood there when on the tee and I would consider them to be either dim or rude if they did.
		
Click to expand...

No-one has an issue with number 18, but tell me where it says you should stand facing the player?


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 9, 2014)

I beg to differ, there are many posts on here saying it is OK to stand on the tee behind the player.


----------



## Fish (Jan 9, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Why do so many folk have a problem with No18 on the etiquitte list.
In my entire golfing life only a handful of 'golfers' have ever stood there when on the tee and I would consider them to be either dim or rude if they did.
		
Click to expand...

18) Remember not to stand close to the ball, I'm not if I'm stood behind them (their back) on the path, bank or tee box. directly behind it, I'm not unless asked to watch down the line of the fairway due to sun.  or directly behind the hole, I'm not when they are putting, when a player is about to swing.

Nothing about not being able to stand _behind them_, as in their back!


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 9, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I beg to differ, there are many posts on here saying it is OK to stand on the tee behind the player.
		
Click to expand...

Number 18 doesn't say behind the player, it says behind the ball.


----------



## JamesR (Jan 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I can't believe the Jackson Pollocks on here. I have never knowingly worried about where I stand, other than to ensure my shadow doesn't encroach the area the FC is using. Other than that I stand where I like, keep still and keep quiet. I can honestly say by using this simple Homer approach (patent pending) I have never been asked to move in memory. All this crap about convention etc is rubbish. I was taught etiquette by the likes of Dan Maskell who knew a thing or too about decorum and upbringing. He never once said it was "convention" or had to be done in a certain way other than to do what I still do as above.

If I was being perfectly blunt and you were being so OCD about where you wanted me to stand I would suggest this would filter into other areas and if I'm honest I think there are probably more enjoyable partners to play with and I wouldn't be rushing to repeat the experience
		
Click to expand...

You may get some stick for your posts Homer, but I gotta agree with this one :thup:


----------



## Slab (Jan 9, 2014)

This thread is available to download for Kindle, Kindle Fire and as a Podcast



Episode two, the follow up to 'Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off', titled 'Where Fellow Competitors Stand when I tee off' is expected to be released next week!


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Jan 9, 2014)

Slab said:



			This thread is available to download for Kindle, Kindle Fire and as a Podcast



Episode two, the follow up to 'Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off', titled 'Where Fellow Competitors Stand when I tee off' is expected to be released next week!
		
Click to expand...


What about the DVD and film rights?

It is starting to get a bit repetitive now, anyone got anything new and useful to add?


----------



## bobmac (Jan 9, 2014)

Do we all agree on the following.......
1. It's not a good idea to stand behind the ball looking down the line unless asked to.
2. Sometimes in certain circumstances it's acceptable to stand facing the players back.
3. When certain circumstances allow, most players will stand facing the players front or slightly behind.


----------



## Slab (Jan 9, 2014)

I'd say there isn't an optimum position to stand but there's certainly some wrong uns'


----------



## JamesR (Jan 9, 2014)

bobmac said:



			Do we all agree on the following.......
1. It's not a good idea to stand behind the ball looking down the line unless asked to.
2. Sometimes in certain circumstances it's acceptable to stand facing the players back.
3. When certain circumstances allow, most players will stand facing the players front or slightly behind.
		
Click to expand...

Seems reasonable


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 9, 2014)

bobmac said:



			Do we all agree on the following.......
1. It's not a good idea to stand behind the ball looking down the line unless asked to.
2. Sometimes in certain circumstances it's acceptable to stand facing the players back.
3. When certain circumstances allow, most players will stand facing the players front or slightly behind.
		
Click to expand...

As long as no-one is trying to force their opinion on me as unsubstantiated fact, I don't care what we do


----------



## Fish (Jan 9, 2014)

bobmac said:



			Do we all agree on the following.......
1. It's not a good idea to stand behind the ball looking down the line unless asked to.
2. Sometimes in certain circumstances it's acceptable to stand facing the players back.
3. When certain circumstances allow, most players will stand facing the players front or slightly behind.
		
Click to expand...

I can see someone wanting to change that to...

1. It's not a good idea to stand behind the ball looking down the line unless asked to.
2. At all times you should attempt to stand facing the players front or slightly behind.
2. Sometimes in certain circumstances it's allowed to stand facing the players back when theirs nowhere else to stand.

:smirk:


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 9, 2014)

bobmac said:



			Do we all agree on the following.......
1. It's not a good idea to stand behind the ball looking down the line unless asked to.
2. Sometimes in certain circumstances it's acceptable to stand facing the players back.
3. When certain circumstances allow, most players will stand facing the players front or slightly behind.
		
Click to expand...

No. Wheres the fun in agreeing with ANYTHING said on this forum


----------



## ger147 (Jan 9, 2014)

bobmac said:



			Do we all agree on the following.......
1. It's not a good idea to stand behind the ball looking down the line unless asked to.
2. Sometimes in certain circumstances it's acceptable to stand facing the players back.
3. When certain circumstances allow, most players will stand facing the players front or slightly behind.
		
Click to expand...

I'll stick to what the R&A say on the matter.


----------



## Dodger (Jan 9, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I beg to differ, there are many posts on here saying it is OK to stand on the tee behind the player.
		
Click to expand...


You see Doon.......I actually read that as do not stand directly,as in in the players swing path, so as not to get battered by his club as he swings and hee haw to do with standing behind at a safe distance and quietly as I do on many an occasion.

Seriously.......I read that as elf and safety not etiquette pish.


----------



## Snelly (Jan 9, 2014)

Fish said:



			I can see someone wanting to change that to...

1. It's not a good idea to stand behind the ball looking down the line unless asked to.
2. At all times you should attempt to stand facing the players front or slightly behind.
2. Sometimes in certain circumstances it's allowed to stand facing the players back when theirs nowhere else to stand.

:smirk:
		
Click to expand...

Perfect, nice work.  I agree with this and it sums up my view nicely. 

Apart from the numbering and the use of the word "theirs."


----------



## CMAC (Jan 9, 2014)

12,079 views
516 replies 

all about where to *stand still* when someones teeing off.

If it wasn't so funny it would be sad


----------



## CMAC (Jan 9, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Perfect, nice work.  I agree with this and it sums up my view nicely. 

*Apart from the numbering and the use of the word "theirs."*

Click to expand...

I know, people who get there, their and they're mixed up really get on my wick, I think their all idiots! 




:smirk:


----------



## Fish (Jan 9, 2014)

CMAC said:



			I know, people who get there, their and they're mixed up really get on my wick, I think their all idiots! 




:smirk:
		
Click to expand...

Well I'm sorry for being an idiot, I didn't do well at school but I still came out quite well in the end, sorry if it gets on your wick, knob!


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 9, 2014)

Fish said:



			Well I'm sorry for being an idiot, I didn't do well at school but I still came out quite well in the end, sorry if it gets on your wick, knob!
		
Click to expand...

I think it was a joke, as he deliberately also got it wrong?


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 9, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I beg to differ, there are many posts on here saying it is OK to stand on the tee behind the player.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, once again I am using the historic golfing meaning of 'behind the player'.
It means standing on the tee when the player is playing, looking directly down the fairway.

This wording has probably caused great confusion on this thread.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 9, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Number 18 doesn't say behind the player, it says behind the ball.
		
Click to expand...

Hawkeye it is the same thing.
Unless you can a explain it differently?


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 9, 2014)

Out of interest.
If this was a thread on archery where one of the rules was 'do not stand behind the archer' when he/she is releasing the arrow.

Where would you position yourself ?


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 9, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Out of interest.
If this was a thread on archery where one of the rules was 'do not stand behind the archer' when he/she is releasing the arrow.

Where would you position yourself ?
		
Click to expand...

I'm normally positioned in the kitchen making dinner when The Archers is on


----------



## El Bandito (Jan 9, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Out of interest.
If this was a thread on archery where one of the rules was 'do not stand behind the archer' when he/she is releasing the arrow.

Where would you position yourself ?
		
Click to expand...

under the apple?:lol:


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 9, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Hawkeye it is the same thing.
Unless you can a explain it differently?
		
Click to expand...

The R&A are very careful in the rules to describe the position you refer to as "behind the player" as either "behind the ball" or "on the extension of the line of play". Presumably this is to avoid confusion as to what is meant by "behind the player". SilH also makes it clear in post 1 that by "behind him" he means "behind his back".

Regardless of the defination of "behind", the fact still remains that nowhere in the rules of golf does it say that you should stand facing the player who is teeing off.


----------



## Smiffy (Jan 9, 2014)

I love playing when it's sunny. I usually stand with the sun behind me, and as the other player is addressing the ball I move my driver up and down behind his back so that the shadow keeps going across his ball. Or leave the headcover on and do "pointy" things with the shadow just in front of his ball.
This is why I don't play in the winter as it's normally cloudy and there is nothing else to do to piss him off other than jangle keys, tees or markers in your pocket.
It's called "gamesmanship" and it's turned the tide in many a game I've played in.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 9, 2014)

bobmac said:



			Do we all agree on the following.......
1. It's not a good idea to stand behind the ball looking down the line unless asked to.
2. Sometimes in certain circumstances it's acceptable to stand facing the players back.
3. When certain circumstances allow, most players will stand facing the players front or slightly behind.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely.  And all I have ever said is that (3) is what I was taught to do whenever I could.  The difference I guess is that I came to understand that it was expected by my PPs that I would stand as in (3) whenever I could - and so that is what I do.  As an aside I take the club I expect to use with me so no faffing about going back to my bag to get a club when it's my turn to play.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 9, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Sorry, once again I am using the historic golfing meaning of 'behind the player'.
It means standing on the tee when the player is playing, looking directly down the fairway.

This wording has probably caused great confusion on this thread.
		
Click to expand...

..because historically no-one would ever even *consider *standing behind someone's back when they are playing?  

(and 'behind' implies relatively close proximity)

I'm kidding, honest...

Actually I feel a bit like a parent trying to suggest to his stroppy teenager that it would be best if he did something - as in the past it has been found to be 'for the best'.  But this is something that he doesn't see the need to do and doesn't actually want to do. And so he finds every excuse and reason under the sun for avoiding or not doing it or for telling me I am wrong and picking holes in what I say.  

Quite funny really


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 9, 2014)

Yes in Golf to me behind the player is the same as Hawkeyes behind the ball. Behind him/her means looking at the players back.

Times change, the world moves on so we are all correct [except the numpties who state that they stand wherever they like].

A few years ago I did the Clubgolf kids coaching classes and really struggled with the different terms used.
Eg, put your right hand on the handle and show me your hold.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 9, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Yes in Golf to me behind the player is the same as Hawkeyes behind the ball. Behind him/her means looking at the players back.

Times change, the world moves on so we are all correct [except the numpties who state that they stand wherever they like].

A few years ago I did the Clubgolf kids coaching classes and really struggled with the different terms used.
Eg, put your right hand on the handle and show me your hold.
		
Click to expand...

I feel with some here with this we may be 'pissing into the wind' - and IMO it's an 'ill wind'


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 9, 2014)

okie doke this is chugging on nicely! 


To quote snelly, "people are inexorably stupid".


The evidence out there suggests this is true.  For some reason it is not uncommon for "may contain nuts" to be printed on the back of a packet of peanuts.

When motorways were first introduced to the uk, there were pamphlets and informational videos produced telling people that the middle grass verge of a motorway is not a good place to stop and have a picnic. 

These golden nuggets of information have appeared in the last 100years even after most of us have been educated to a certain standard. 

To bring this back to my point. When golf was invented, people were not as educated (debateable) as we are today. When those first golfers stepped onto a course it was brand new. it would seem appropriate that you would lay down at least some ground rules on this matter to keep everyone happy and most importantly, safe. The vast majority of people today that are not taught to play as children have seen golf on the magic picture box. They observe pros in their natural environment and without knowing it, they are influenced on how to behave on a tee box. If they have not, within about 5  minutes of playing with proper golfers they will pick up the dos and don'ts through observation. 

additionally, in times gone by, the equipment was not made to todays great standards (again debateable TM . It was, I would guess more likely that an iron head would fly off or hickory shaft would give in. If you got a smack back then you just got hit. These days its insurance companies and lawsuits. 

In summary, I have no doubt that some kind of guideline was in place to keep people safe as any idiot could play as long as he was rich. Some of these practices will have been passed down. Like everything, these practices get twisted through time. Now the emphasis is on keeping up with the pace of play, not going through a whole rigmarole every time a four ball gets on a tee box.


----------



## Fish (Jan 9, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			okie doke this is chugging on nicely! 


To quote snelly, "people are inexorably stupid".


The evidence out there suggests this is true.  For some reason it is not uncommon for "may contain nuts" to be printed on the back of a packet of peanuts.

When motorways were first introduced to the uk, there were pamphlets and informational videos produced telling people that the middle grass verge of a motorway is not a good place to stop and have a picnic. 

These golden nuggets of information have appeared in the last 100years even after most of us have been educated to a certain standard. 

To bring this back to my point. When golf was invented, people were not as educated (debateable) as we are today. When those first golfers stepped onto a course it was brand new. it would seem appropriate that you would lay down at least some ground rules on this matter to keep everyone happy and most importantly, safe. The vast majority of people today that are not taught to play as children have seen golf on the magic picture box. They observe pros in their natural environment and without knowing it, they are influenced on how to behave on a tee box. If they have not, within about 5  minutes of playing with proper golfers they will pick up the dos and don'ts through observation. 

additionally, in times gone by, the equipment was not made to todays great standards (again debateable TM . It was, I would guess more likely that an iron head would fly off or hickory shaft would give in. If you got a smack back then you just got hit. These days its insurance companies and lawsuits. 

In summary, I have no doubt that some kind of guideline was in place to keep people safe as any idiot could play as long as he was rich. Some of these practices will have been passed down. Like everything, these practices get twisted through time. Now the emphasis is on keeping up with the pace of play, not going through a whole rigmarole every time a four ball gets on a tee box.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 9, 2014)

garry 
I think the 'many golfers today were not taught as children' just about sums up this thread.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 9, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Absolutely.  And all I have ever said is that (3) is what I was taught to do whenever I could.  The difference I guess is that I came to understand that it was expected by my PPs that I would stand as in (3) whenever I could - and so that is what I do.  As an aside I take the club I expect to use with me so no faffing about going back to my bag to get a club when it's my turn to play.
		
Click to expand...

But that isn't all you've said is it though SILH. You were using terms like universally accepted and the correct place to stand And implying that those of us that stood elsewhere were wrong or ignorant of etiquette.


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 9, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			garry 
I think the 'many golfers today were not taught as children' just about sums up this thread.
		
Click to expand...


not everyone has that luxury I am afraid! 

a lot of the time you can only be as good as the teaching.  

maybe when this is all said and done and moved onto thread page 2, we can all step back and think we may have learned something from this. if not, at least we had some fun! :thup:


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 9, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			garry 
I think the 'many golfers today were not taught as children' just about sums up this thread.
		
Click to expand...

The problem with that argument is, like many things these days, if you want to learn about something, you look it up, usually on the Internet and in the case of golf, at the R&A website. The R&A website categorically doesn't say that you should stand facing the player tee-ing off, you may not like it, but it doesn't.

I have no doubt that some people were told that you should indeed stand facing the player, I have no doubt that they believe this to be the correct place but I also have no doubt that there is no evidence to suggest that anyone who doesn't do this is wrong. Calling people stupid because they follow the guidelines of the governing body and not what someone tells them on an Internet forum is at best rude and at worst arrogant.

As I said before, if SilH & others hadn't claimed "universal acceptance" of his opinion and that people who don't stand facing the player are breaking etiquette are standing in the wrong place, this thread wouldn't have escalated the way it has. If SilH or anyone else wants to stand facing the player then that's up to them, it's their choice and I have no problem with it. But they shouldn't come on here claiming that their opinion is the correct etiquette when the etiquette issued by the governing body does not back up this opinion.

And I'm out.


----------



## Fish (Jan 9, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			The problem with that argument is, like many things these days, if you want to learn about something, you look it up, usually on the Internet and in the case of golf, at the R&A website. The R&A website categorically doesn't say that you should stand facing the player tee-ing off, you may not like it, but it doesn't.

I have no doubt that some people were told that you should indeed stand facing the player, I have no doubt that they believe this to be the correct place but I also have no doubt that there is no evidence to suggest that anyone who doesn't do this is wrong. Calling people stupid because they follow the guidelines of the governing body and not what someone tells them on an Internet forum is at best rude and at worst arrogant.

As I said before, if SilH & others hadn't claimed "universal acceptance" of his opinion and that people who don't stand facing the player are breaking etiquette are standing in the wrong place, this thread wouldn't have escalated the way it has. If SilH or anyone else wants to stand facing the player then that's up to them, it's their choice and I have no problem with it. But they shouldn't come on here claiming that their opinion is the correct etiquette when the etiquette issued by the governing body does not back up this opinion.

And I'm out.
		
Click to expand...





Again :smirk:


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 9, 2014)

when space and time is not an issue we will all face the player as its a human thing to do and also gives the best view!


----------



## Fyldewhite (Jan 9, 2014)

I'm going to be the only member not to post on this thread........damn - just failed.

Having read through all the posts here (so yes, you know I'm a liar already).......
Standing facing the player........ IS a convention, IS NOT universal, IS a sensible place to stand on around 50% of the holes you play, IS NOT as important as being out of eyeline, still and quiet.

On a trip, we once put the four left handers out in the first group for a laugh. To a man, they all said their heads were cabbaged by the 4th as none of them knew where to stand.


----------



## BTatHome (Jan 9, 2014)

Fyldewhite said:



			I'm going to be the only member not to post on this thread........damn - just failed.

Having read through all the posts here (so yes, you know I'm a liar already).......
Standing facing the player........ IS a convention, IS NOT universal, IS a sensible place to stand on around 50% of the holes you play, *IS NOT as important as being out of eyeline*, still and quiet.

On a trip, we once put the four left handers out in the first group for a laugh. To a man, they all said their heads were cabbaged by the 4th as none of them knew where to stand.
		
Click to expand...

I think you'll find that being able to see you is one of things that SILH wants .... don't go hiding !


----------



## CMAC (Jan 9, 2014)

Fish said:



			Well I'm sorry for being an idiot, I didn't do well at school but I still came out quite well in the end, sorry if it gets on your wick, knob!
		
Click to expand...




murphthemog said:



			I think it was a joke, as he deliberately also got it wrong?
		
Click to expand...

Murph got it, as did many others


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 9, 2014)

Next forum meet should be interesting if there are a few leftys included.

The first tee will look like a barn dance with everyone do-si-do-ing left and right of the tee...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afjidc0ofKw


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 9, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			But that isn't all you've said is it though SILH. You were using terms like universally accepted and the correct place to stand And implying that those of us that stood elsewhere were wrong or ignorant of etiquette.
		
Click to expand...

But as far as I was aware this *was* universally accepted as being the correct place to stand.  I honestly didn't realise that there were swathes of folks out there who had never heard of this.  I am now getting a feeling that most who have never heard of it are 'more recent' golfers - and of course if the folk they have learnt the game and etiquette from and whom they play with have *also *never heard of it then the 'ignorance' is perpetuated.  And this does seem to be the case.

(and before anyone leaps on me for use of 'ignorance' please read it as in 'not knowing')

...and surely - when it comes down to it - the best place to stand is the place you are least likely to be asked to move from - and as quite a few agree - this is facing your FC whenever practical.  So surely best just to stand there rather than elsewhere that *might* discomfort a player - though he may not tell you.


----------



## Allanxyz (Jan 9, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			...and surely - when it comes down to it - the best place to stand is the place you are least likely to be asked to move from - and as quite a few agree - this is facing your FC *whenever practical*. So surely best just to stand there rather than elsewhere that *might* discomfort a player - though he may not tell you.
		
Click to expand...

To me it comes down to this "whenever practical"... I've never seen anyone crossing the teeing ground to stand infront of the player, or switch when a left-hander comes on. I stand next to my bag on the path, which is either in front or behind the player (rarely down the line). So I wouldn't say "whenever practical".... It's not practical, or more importantly *worth it*, to be trapsing across teeing grounds on 50% of holes.

PS If there was a path down both sides of the teeing area I would head for the one that brought be infront of a right hander...


----------



## DCB (Jan 9, 2014)

Smiffy said:



			I love playing when it's sunny. I usually stand with the sun behind me, and as the other player is addressing the ball I move my driver up and down behind his back so that the shadow keeps going across his ball. Or leave the headcover on and do "pointy" things with the shadow just in front of his ball.
This is why I don't play in the winter as it's normally cloudy and there is nothing else to do to piss him off other than jangle keys, tees or markers in your pocket.
It's called "gamesmanship" and it's turned the tide in many a game I've played in.
		
Click to expand...

Post of the thread....


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 9, 2014)

... and people wonder why golfers have a reputation for being boring


----------



## Slab (Jan 9, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			But as far as I was aware this *was* universally accepted as being the correct place to stand.  I honestly didn't realise that there were swathes of folks out there who had never heard of this.  I am now getting a feeling that most who have never heard of it are 'more recent' golfers - and of course if the folk they have learnt the game and etiquette from and whom they play with have *also *never heard of it then the _*'ignorance'*_ is perpetuated.  And this does seem to be the case.

*(and before anyone leaps on me for use of 'ignorance' please read it as in 'not knowing')*

...and surely - when it comes down to it - the best place to stand is the place you are least likely to be asked to move from - and as quite a few agree - this is facing your FC whenever practical.  So surely best just to stand there rather than elsewhere that *might* discomfort a player - though he may not tell you.
		
Click to expand...

But in an effort to keep the thread going you'd rather use the word _ignorance _and 16 more explaining why you've used it as opposed to just using two and saying _not knowing_ which is less likely to inflame things!


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 9, 2014)

Slab said:



			But in an effort to keep the thread going you'd rather use the word _ignorance _and 16 more explaining why you've used it as opposed to just using two and saying _not knowing_ which is less likely to inflame things!
		
Click to expand...

Sorry - if you don't know something you are ignorant of it - that does not mean you are ignorant in a pejorative sense.  Sorry but this is what I mean by me feeling like a dad talking to a teenager. 

And in response to @Allanxyz - yes - odd as you might think - I *do *walk from one side of the tee to the other if a left hander follows a right hander or vice versa - and it takes no time as I do it as one player walks off the tee and the next on to it.  

And because I take the club I am going to use with me then I don't have to go back to my bag to get it.  That's me thinking ahead, deciding on my shot, deciding on my club, taking it with me and hence being prepared to play without *any *delay at all.

I note that IMO adhering to etiquette is always worth it.

We disagree whether standing facing your FC is etiquette. You don't - I do.


----------



## chris661 (Jan 9, 2014)

CMAC said:



			12,079 views
516 replies 

all about where to *stand still* when someones teeing off.

If it wasn't so funny it would be sad

Click to expand...

And yet you have posted on it *11* times. Which I find ironic when you are trying to be sanctimonious.


----------



## Rooter (Jan 9, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And because I take the club I am going to use with me then I don't have to go back to my bag to get it.  That's me thinking ahead, deciding on my shot, deciding on my club, taking it with me and hence being prepared to play without *any *delay at all
		
Click to expand...

Do you take your laser/DMD with you too?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 9, 2014)

Rooter said:



			Do you take your laser/DMD with you too? 

Click to expand...

Oh I'd be lost without it


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 9, 2014)

...sorry - had a wee moment there - my what?


----------



## john0 (Jan 9, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And in response to @Allanxyz - yes - odd as you might think -* I do walk from one side of the tee to the other if a left hander follows a right hander or vice versa* - and it takes no time as I do it as one player walks off the tee and the next on to it.
		
Click to expand...

Please don't take offence to this, but are you serious that you actually do this on a regular basis?  If a right hander plays, then followed by a leftie, you will walk to the other side of the tee-box in between their tee shots?  And when you do this do the other members of your group follow you, or just remain where they are?


----------



## User20205 (Jan 9, 2014)

chris661 said:



			And yet you have posted on it *11* times. Which I find ironic when you are trying to be sanctimonious. 

Click to expand...

Yep don't feed it.......doh

I've read some pointless threads in my time on here, none beat this!!!

Before anyone says.. 'Well don't read it', it's like a car crash, I can't help myself


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 9, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			<snipped>
And in response to @Allanxyz - yes - odd as you might think - I *do *walk from one side of the tee to the other if a left hander follows a right hander or vice versa - and it takes no time as I do it as one player walks off the tee and the next on to it.  

I note that IMO adhering to etiquette is always worth it.

We disagree whether standing facing your FC is etiquette. You don't - I do.
		
Click to expand...

Earlier on you insisted that the most important thing was to do/stand where the person driving wants, and even though a lot of people aren't really bothered where others stand while waiting, they should be aware of what the player on the tee desires.

I personally would find it off putting if others were wandering from one side of the tee to the other, so that I had PPs at my back and my front. I'd prefer that others choose a side and stuck to it.

If I and my left handed FC asked that you stuck to one side of the tee, would you do so, or would "doing the right thing" prevail?


----------



## Hacker Khan (Jan 9, 2014)

therod said:



			Yep don't feed it.......doh

I've read some pointless threads in my time on here, none beat this!!!

Before anyone says.. 'Well don't read it', it's like a car crash, I can't help myself
		
Click to expand...

I have not read it so tell me it is not 56 pages on where people stand when someone is teeing off?


----------



## john0 (Jan 9, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			I have not read it so tell me it is not 56 pages on where people stand when someone is teeing off?
		
Click to expand...

Would you like us to lie to you?


----------



## User20205 (Jan 9, 2014)

Yep, I think so, I kind of glazed over on page 12!!


----------



## Robobum (Jan 9, 2014)

This thread is missing definitive parameters!! (Should also enable it to drag on for a few more pages)

If I stand in your favoured spot how far away from you is okay?

We've established that standing 15yds behind your back is ok, at what distance does this become an issue?

Standing behind the ball line is a necessary evil sometimes, how far back do you want us?

Once all these are clarified, simply make a template which you can quickly lay out as you get to the tee and then everyone's a winner 

Happy to help


----------



## cookelad (Jan 9, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			I have not read it so tell me it is not 56 pages on where people stand when someone is teeing off?
		
Click to expand...

Don't worry in your absence someone claimed it was a reason for the decline in membership numbers!


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 9, 2014)

Robobum said:



			This thread is missing definitive parameters!! (Should also enable it to drag on for a few more pages)

If I stand in your favoured spot how far away from you is okay?

We've established that standing 15yds behind your back is ok, at what distance does this become an issue?

Standing behind the ball line is a necessary evil sometimes, how far back do you want us?

Once all these are clarified, simply make a template which you can quickly lay out as you get to the tee and then everyone's a winner 

Happy to help 

Click to expand...

Maybe we need "waiting to play" tees... little blocks that define the right place to stand between whilst someone else is playing!

What about the caddies?
If we all have a caddie, that could be six of us trying to squeeze into the perfect spot!


----------



## Robobum (Jan 9, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			Maybe we need "waiting to play" tees... little blocks that define the right place to stand between whilst someone else is playing!
		
Click to expand...

A circled area like a DZ! Yes, that's the simple answer!


Oh wait, what if zones are too small - large person discriminatory!

Oh no!!!


----------



## User20205 (Jan 9, 2014)

cookelad said:



			Don't worry in your absence someone claimed it was a reason for the decline in membership numbers!

Click to expand...

:rofl:


----------



## User20205 (Jan 9, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			Maybe we need "waiting to play" tees... little blocks that define the right place to stand between whilst someone else is playing!

What about the caddies?
If we all have a caddie, that could be six of us trying to squeeze into the perfect spot!
		
Click to expand...


How about a bench? Not a memorial one for 'old Percy who loved this place', but a football style bench. We  could be stripped, ready for action, also in the appropriate place.

I think clubs have neglected this for too long. I recommend SLH could set a  'where to stand' consultancy service.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 9, 2014)

john0 said:



			Please don't take offence to this, but are you serious that you actually do this on a regular basis?  If a right hander plays, then followed by a leftie, you will walk to the other side of the tee-box in between their tee shots?  And when you do this do the other members of your group follow you, or just remain where they are?
		
Click to expand...

I do - yes - whenever I am playing with a left-hander - which is actually quite rare.  I tend to mutter something along the lines of "oh - left-hander - other-side".  This is simply what I was taught, have had reinforced into me over the years, and now just what I do naturally - it doesn't feel weird or forced or anything - it's just what I do.  

And others tend to swap also if they have been standing close to the side of the tee.  I don't know whether they do this for the same reason as I do or whether they just follow me.  I don't know and don't ask.


----------



## CMAC (Jan 9, 2014)

chris661 said:



			And yet you have posted on it *11* times. Which I find ironic when you are trying to be sanctimonious. 

Click to expand...

just giving you guys a reality check...which you clearly need


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 9, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			I have not read it so tell me it is not 56 pages on where people stand when someone is teeing off?
		
Click to expand...

Please.....do not mention 'standing behind the player'. we had 24 pages on that alone!

Mention  Archery....that seemed to calm them down a bit.


----------



## JamesR (Jan 9, 2014)

The tees at my course simply aren't big enough for everything we're gonna need: 
we need the tee area itself (however wide & 2 clubs deep),
the right handers PP standing zone, 
the left handers FC standing zone, 
the playing into the sun standing zone, 
the DMD using zone, 
the caddies standing zone for right handers, 
the caddies standing zone for left handers, 
trolley park for left handers, 
trolley park for right handers, 
buggy park for right handers, 
buggy park for left handers,
ball cleaner, 
staircase on each side of the tee (for those blind tee shots over the brow of a hill)

Anything else?


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 9, 2014)

Gil_Emott said:



			The tees at my course simply aren't big enough for everything we're gonna need: 
we need the tee area itself (however wide & 2 clubs deep),
the right handers PP standing zone, 
the left handers FC standing zone, 
the playing into the sun standing zone, 
the DMD using zone, 
the caddies standing zone for right handers, 
the caddies standing zone for left handers, 
trolley park for left handers, 
trolley park for right handers, 
buggy park for right handers, 
buggy park for left handers,
ball cleaner, 
staircase on each side of the tee (for those blind tee shots over the brow of a hill)

Anything else?
		
Click to expand...

Wall to bash your head against?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 9, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			Earlier on you insisted that the most important thing was to do/stand where the person driving wants, and even though a lot of people aren't really bothered where others stand while waiting, they should be aware of what the player on the tee desires.

I personally would find it off putting if others were wandering from one side of the tee to the other, so that I had PPs at my back and my front. I'd prefer that others choose a side and stuck to it.

If I and my left handed FC asked that you stuck to one side of the tee, would you do so, or would "doing the right thing" prevail?
		
Click to expand...

I would always do what my PPs asked - the whole point is that standing facing your FC was what I was told most players were most comfortable with.  If it bothered someone I clearly wouldn't as it would be counter to the simple objective - Where does the player about to play feel most comfortable with me standing - without him having to ask me to move there.  And that's it.


----------



## Hacker Khan (Jan 9, 2014)

Jeez, it really it 58 pages on this topic.


----------



## JamesR (Jan 9, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			Wall to bash your head against?
		
Click to expand...

One each for righties & lefties?


----------



## Robobum (Jan 9, 2014)

therod said:



			How about a bench? Not a memorial one for 'old Percy who loved this place', but a football style bench. We  could be stripped, ready for action, also in the appropriate place.

I think clubs have neglected this for too long. I recommend SLH could set a  'where to stand' consultancy service.
		
Click to expand...

This is the kind of thinking we need!!

Bench not secured so it can be transported to other side of tee for left hookers of course !


----------



## Stuey01 (Jan 9, 2014)

So, we're all agreed then?
:thup:


----------



## richart (Jan 9, 2014)

therod said:



			How about a bench? Not a memorial one for 'old Percy who loved this place', but a football style bench. We  could be stripped, ready for action, also in the appropriate place.
		
Click to expand...

I realise that I actually sit through a lot of my partners tee shots, and get quite grumpy when there is no seat available. Must be an age thing, though some of them do take forever to hit the ball.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 9, 2014)

richart said:



			I realise that I actually sit through a lot of my partners tee shots, and get quite grumpy when there is no seat available. Must be an age thing, though some of them do take forever to hit the ball.

Click to expand...

So casting your mind back - did you sit on the bench at the back of the 6th tee at my track when you played there last year? 

Bet you did as a little climb up from 5th green and a wait on the tee as it's a par 3.


----------



## john0 (Jan 9, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			So casting your mind back - did you sit on the bench at the back of the 6th tee at my track when you played there last year? 
.
		
Click to expand...

A bench at the back of the tee box?  I hope people don't sit there while others are teeing off


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 9, 2014)

john0 said:



			A bench at the back of the tee box?  I hope people don't sit there while others are teeing off 

Click to expand...

Well spotted sir!

The tee markers are only very rarely at the back of the tee - and it is a very long tee front to back.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 9, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well spotted sir!

The tee markers are only very rarely at the back of the tee - and it is a very long tee front to back.
		
Click to expand...

But surely they'd still be behind the player teeing off looking down the line and I think that we all agree that is not the done thing to do. Maybe next time you're there you should move the bench to the side of the tee facing a right handed player. But if the sun was setting ahead of the tee you might have to move it back.


----------



## john0 (Jan 9, 2014)

Does anyone know if Fish has took his dog for a walk yet?


----------



## ger147 (Jan 9, 2014)

john0 said:



			Does anyone know if Fish has took his dog for a walk yet?
		
Click to expand...

Or if he stands facing the dog when it pees?


----------



## john0 (Jan 9, 2014)

ger147 said:



			Or if he stands facing the dog when it pees?
		
Click to expand...

As long as he isnt in the dog's eyeline while it's peeing then he should'nt put it off


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 9, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			But surely they'd still be behind the player teeing off looking down the line and I think that we all agree that is not the done thing to do. Maybe next time you're there you should move the bench to the side of the tee facing a right handed player. But if the sun was setting ahead of the tee you might have to move it back. 

Click to expand...

This has occurred to me - but it is fixed in position.


----------



## Fish (Jan 9, 2014)

john0 said:



			Does anyone know if Fish has took his dog for a walk yet?
		
Click to expand...

We've got 'em crossed still


----------



## mefromhere (Jan 9, 2014)

I'd rather somebody stands 10 yards behind the ball than 3 yards away face to face, but at the end of the day if you can't see them it doesn't matter! I might stand in a different place on every tee this weekend and see if I get asked to move wherever I stand. 18th tee on Sunday I might try standing with a foot either side of the ball as I imagine that will be the first time somebody has an issue with where I am


----------



## john0 (Jan 9, 2014)

Fish said:



			We've got 'em crossed still 

View attachment 8753

Click to expand...

That photo just looks sooo wrong


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 9, 2014)

mefromhere said:



			18th tee on Sunday I might try standing with a foot either side of the ball as I imagine that will be the first time somebody has an issue with where I am
		
Click to expand...

As long as you are standing sideways facing the player it should be ok. If you are standing looking down the fairway/down the line of the shot then there might be a problem.


----------



## Dodger (Jan 9, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			This has occurred to me - but it is fixed in position.
		
Click to expand...

I am just admiring what a terrible position the photographer who took you avatar picture has taken up.....

Bad man.


----------



## the smiling assassin (Jan 9, 2014)

Dodger said:



			I am just admiring what a terrible position the photographer who took you avatar picture has taken up.....

Bad man.

Click to expand...

:rofl:


----------



## Baldy Bouncer (Jan 9, 2014)

There must be a awful lot of Golf clubs still closed up and down the country because of the weather, for all this nonsense.


----------



## JamesR (Jan 9, 2014)

Dodger said:



			I am just admiring what a terrible position the photographer who took you avatar picture has taken up.....

Bad man.

Click to expand...

I can't believe it took 590 posts before one of us noticed


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 9, 2014)

Telephoto lens - photographer was up a tree behind the tee (at Merion)


----------



## SocketRocket (Jan 9, 2014)

I have been thunking about this and think there may be a business opportunity here.  How about adjustable teeing off blinkers?  Clip them on and they blank out anything outside your own preferred tee box comfort zone.

Here is a clip of a prototype I knocked together.   What do you think ?  

View attachment 8754


----------



## ger147 (Jan 9, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			I have been thunking about this and think there may be a business opportunity here.  How about adjustable teeing off blinkers?  Clip them on and they blank out anything outside your own preferred tee box comfort zone.

Here is a clip of a prototype I knocked together.   What do you think ?  

View attachment 8754

Click to expand...

Could you add ear muffs to the design to block out noise as well?


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 9, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			I have been thunking about this and think there may be a business opportunity here.  How about adjustable teeing off blinkers?  Clip them on and they blank out anything outside your own preferred tee box comfort zone.

Here is a clip of a prototype I knocked together.   What do you think ?  

View attachment 8754

Click to expand...

SocketRocket's course is definitely closed...This man has way too much time on his hands


----------



## CMAC (Jan 9, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Telephoto lens - photographer was up a tree behind the tee (at Merion)
		
Click to expand...

what? a 5'10" tree?


----------



## SocketRocket (Jan 9, 2014)

ger147 said:



			Could you add ear muffs to the design to block out noise as well?
		
Click to expand...

Come on, You're being silly now.


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 9, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Come on, You're being silly now.
		
Click to expand...

Now? NOW??
Have you not read this thread?


----------



## El Bandito (Jan 9, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			Now? NOW??
Have you not read this thread?
		
Click to expand...

I may be wrong - but I detected a gentle hint of irony in SR's post:thup:


----------



## ger147 (Jan 9, 2014)

El Bandito said:



			I may be wrong - but I detected a gentle hint of irony in SR's post:thup:
		
Click to expand...

Me too


----------



## richart (Jan 9, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			So casting your mind back - did you sit on the bench at the back of the 6th tee at my track when you played there last year? 

Bet you did as a little climb up from 5th green and a wait on the tee as it's a par 3.
		
Click to expand...

 I think I had a sit down there when I was playing the 9th.


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 9, 2014)

El Bandito said:



			I may be wrong - but I detected a gentle hint of irony in SR's post:thup:
		
Click to expand...

Didn't you notice the great big chunk of sarcasm in mine?:whoo:


----------



## El Bandito (Jan 9, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			Didn't you notice the great big chunk of sarcasm in mine?:whoo:
		
Click to expand...

Well to detect it in one and then another in the same day? - I'm not bright enough for that


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 9, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Telephoto lens - photographer was up a tree behind the tee (at Merion)
		
Click to expand...

I will confirm that.
I have the large black and white version of that and the 1953 one at Carnoustie. On loan to my daughter at the mo.

Probably the best two golf pictures ever.


----------



## Khamelion (Jan 9, 2014)

I'm not reading through 60 pages of posts, so this, my point of view may have been covered, but I'll generally stand behind the person teeing off, that is so their back is towards me, that way I'm not in their line of sight or peripheral vision. Of course that changes dependent on where the sun is and where my shadow is cast, in which case I will stand so as not to cast a shadow that may be distracting to them if at all avoidable.

I will stand to the side of the person teeing up looking down the line when the sun is facing so I can track the ball flight, that I think is good manners and courteous, and ultimately speeds up play as you don't have to spend time looking for a ball.

Other than the above, stay out of site of the person teeing up and keep quiet.


----------



## Imurg (Jan 9, 2014)

I'm still wondering what the 9 o'clock position is called......:rofl:


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 9, 2014)

Imurg said:



			I'm still wondering what the 9 o'clock position is called......:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

In my house it's called horizontal on the couch.....


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 9, 2014)

Imurg said:



			I'm still wondering what the 9 o'clock position is called......:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Well is that dependant who the clock face is centered on


----------



## Odvan (Jan 9, 2014)

Right, this thread needs this......

1....


2.....


3.....



AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (etc)


Thats better.


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 9, 2014)

Odvan said:



			Right, this thread needs this......

1....


2.....


3.....



AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (etc)


Thats better.
		
Click to expand...

What we need is a new impetus for this thread as it seems to be stagnating...

Sooooooo, what biscuit should we be eating whilst waiting for our PP's to tee off? I'm sticking with Chocolate Hob Nobs......


----------



## Odvan (Jan 9, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			What we need is a new impetus for this thread as it seems to be stagnating...

Sooooooo, what biscuit should we be eating whilst waiting for our PP's to tee off? I'm sticking with Chocolate Hob Nobs......
		
Click to expand...

Now we're talking....

next forum meet I'm gonna pull out a 24 bag multi-pack of walkers and shake BBQ beef to the bottom, so as not to offend my PP's if they were to pick them out. And if one PP is stood the other side of the tee box I'll simply pick for them and lob the packet over the top of teeing players head, ensuring they remain out of peripheral vision.


----------



## CMAC (Jan 9, 2014)

should you have one hand or both hands in your pockets when waiting at the tee? and should coins be allowed in pockets prior to teeing off?


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 9, 2014)

Stop saying PPs it makes me want to go.


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 9, 2014)

Sorted !!


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 9, 2014)

Love it that this keeps going without needing my involvement to stir it up a bit  

So I'll note that I find it disappointing that there seem to be many here who are happy to dismiss out of hand what I honestly believed to be a bit of universally understood etiquette; who are happy to make up their own version of what is deemed acceptable without actually knowing what their PP feel; and who view what I suggested as a complete joke and what I do simply the actions of an anal eccentric.  And I think I can recall only one individual on this forum who had not heard of what I thought to be the etiquette accept that this may be something they had missed and either adopt it (as it is as easy to adopt as it is to ignore) or who will check with their professional or other senior or experienced member.

There seems to be a view that as 'I haven't heard of this and nether I nor my mates do this, then I will continue to do what suits me regardless of what someone else might suggest' and 'Ask my professional - why would I do that? - I might find out that that eedjit SILH was right all along' 

peace be with you


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 9, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And in response to @Allanxyz - yes - odd as you might think - I *do *walk from one side of the tee to the other if a left hander follows a right hander or vice versa - and it takes no time as I do it as one player walks off the tee and the next on to it.
		
Click to expand...

Can you take a video next time, speed it up, put Benny Hill music in the background for us, please.

We've got a little bald fella for hire also, haven't we scouser, and a left hander, if you need us to cast it.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 9, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Can you take a video next time, speed it up, put Benny Hill music in the background for us, please.

We've got a little bald fella for hire also, haven't we scouser, and a left hander, if you need us to cast it.
		
Click to expand...

A timely post - evidence m'lud iin support of my last post


----------



## NWJocko (Jan 9, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			A timely post - evidence m'lud iin support of my last post
		
Click to expand...

Edit. Deleted because I can't be bothered.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 9, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			A timely post - evidence m'lud iin support of my last post
		
Click to expand...

Thanks SILH, I've given up on the merits of this post a long time ago.

I didn't read the first 10 pages, so don't know your stance, and not sure if I agree with you or not, but for sheer comedic value this thread is right up there. No offence intended.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 9, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			So I'll note that I find it disappointing that there seem to be many here who are happy to dismiss out of hand what I honestly believed to be a bit of universally understood etiquette; who are happy to make up their own version of what is deemed acceptable without actually knowing what their PP feel; 

or who will check with their professional or other senior or experienced member.

peace be with you 

Click to expand...

I regularly play with my dad or his playing partners all of whom are in their 60's or 70's and most of them have been playing the game for 50+ years. They have never had a problem with me standing towards either back corner of the teeing ground while they take their shot or indeed either facing or behind them and have never insisted that I stand facing them or asked me to move from where I have been standing. So it would seem that it is not universally accepted etiquette by more senior members. However as has previously been mentioned I along with all others it would seem are happy to stand wherever I am asked to by PP's or FC's.

And may peas be with you too SILH.


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 9, 2014)

Picture this ...


A hot summers day in august, the whole of the golf monthly forum are on a plane heading to the Pebble Beach for the final of the King of Kings competition.

Everyone is having a great time but suddenly the plane plunges into the Atlantic.  There are, no survivors! 

We all approach the pearly gates to be greeted by Saint Peter himself. He also an avid golfer, plays off 4,tidy short game.

He beckons the first forumer to come forward. "Step forward son".  Liverpoolphil steps forward.

Saint Peter looks at his life chart and starts " ah ha, yeah, mmm, yep, everything seems to be in order here, yep, oh hold on a minute."

"it says here you wasted you life reading 60 pages of nonsense on the golf monthly forum."

Saint Peter then says, "tut tut,  oh dear, im sorry, can you please stand over there"  

A voice from the back pipes up...

"SEE, I FLIPPIN TOLD YOUS" 

pandemonium breaks out


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 9, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			I didn't read the first 10 pages, so don't know your stance, and not sure if I agree with you or not, but for sheer comedic value this thread is right up there. No offence intended.
		
Click to expand...

To summarise the full thread......
1.) SILH stated that he was taught that etiquette dictates that you should ALWAYS stand facing the player teeing off in front of him whenever it was possible to do so. DfT agreed.
2.) Pretty much every one else disagreed and said that standing still and quiet were the only important factor as long as you weren't forward of the ball or directly behind it looking down the line of the shot (unless asked to do so by PP).
3.) And since then there have been 600 posts basically saying "Oh yes it is" "Oh no it isn't" but no-one has yet shouted "He's behind you" but that might be because a) it's not right to shout when someone is teeing off and b)you shouldn't be behind someone when they are teeing off.


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 10, 2014)

Mathew 16-23 -get behind me Satan. SILH 10-11 -you should know where to stand.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 10, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			Picture this ...


A hot summers day in august, the whole of the golf monthly forum are on a plane heading to the Pebble Beach for the final of the King of Kings competition.

Everyone is having a great time but suddenly the plane plunges into the Atlantic.  There are, no survivors! 

We all approach the pearly gates to be greeted by Saint Peter himself. He also an avid golfer, plays off 4,tidy short game.

He beckons the first forumer to come forward. "Step forward son".  Liverpoolphil steps forward.

Saint Peter looks at his life chart and starts " ah ha, yeah, mmm, yep, everything seems to be in order here, yep, oh hold on a minute."

"it says here you wasted you life reading 60 pages of nonsense on the golf monthly forum."

Saint Peter then says, "tut tut,  oh dear, im sorry, can you please stand over there"  

A voice from the back pipes up...

"SEE, I FLIPPIN TOLD YOUS" 

pandemonium breaks out




Click to expand...


See you in 45 days


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 10, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			To summarise the full thread......
1.) SILH stated that he was taught that etiquette dictates that you should ALWAYS stand facing the player teeing off in front of him whenever it was possible to do so. DfT agreed.
2.) Pretty much every one else disagreed and said that standing still and quiet were the only important factor as long as you weren't forward of the ball or directly behind it looking down the line of the shot (unless asked to do so by PP).
3.) And since then there have been 600 posts basically saying "Oh yes it is" "Oh no it isn't" but no-one has yet shouted "He's behind you" but that might be because a) it's not right to shout when someone is teeing off and b)you shouldn't be behind someone when they are teeing off.
		
Click to expand...

Nope.
I don't recall Hogan or myself saying ALWAYS, he may have said that HE always tries to stand in the HNSP.

Many jumped on the 'stoopid' bandwaggon early on and have then desperately tried to justify there comments after the R&A etiquette notes were posted. They would not want to look like they know nothing about something as basic as this would they now.

I would be interested to know how many folk on here who started golf with lessons from a Pro [not old uncle Bert who plays off 22] who were taught where to stand safely when golfers are playing. As a reminder it would be the very first thing you were taught, before grip, swing etc.


----------



## Robobum (Jan 10, 2014)

What's HNSP again?


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 10, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Nope.
I don't recall Hogan or myself saying ALWAYS, he may have said that HE always tries to stand in the HNSP.

Many jumped on the 'stoopid' bandwaggon early on and have then desperately tried to justify there comments after the R&A etiquette notes were posted. They would not want to look like they know nothing about something as basic as this would they now.

I would be interested to know how many folk on here who started golf with lessons from a Pro [not old uncle Bert who plays off 22] who were taught where to stand safely when golfers are playing. As a reminder it would be the very first thing you were taught, before grip, swing etc.
		
Click to expand...

I was told to stand over there so I could see what he was doing. It would be odd to have a lesson from someone if I was standing behind them.


----------



## JamesR (Jan 10, 2014)

Khamelion said:



			I'm not reading through 60 pages of posts, so this, my point of view may have been covered, but *I'll generally stand behind the person teeing off, that is so their back is towards me,* that way I'm not in their line of sight or peripheral vision. Of course that changes dependent on where the sun is and where my shadow is cast, in which case I will stand so as not to cast a shadow that may be distracting to them if at all avoidable.

I will stand to the side of the person teeing up looking down the line when the sun is facing so I can track the ball flight, that I think is good manners and courteous, and ultimately speeds up play as you don't have to spend time looking for a ball.

Other than the above, stay out of site of the person teeing up and keep quiet.
		
Click to expand...

You can't stand there I'm afraid. Your FC/PP may be paranoid about the remote possibility that you'll be doing the sort of stuff Smiffy recommends?


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 10, 2014)

murphthemog said:



			I was told to stand over there so I could see what he was doing. It would be odd to have a lesson from someone if I was standing behind them.
		
Click to expand...

So were you standing behind the ball not standing behind him?

I was in the company of a group of golfers last night mainly decent players and Turnberry members.
I asked them 'In golf if I said I was standing behind the player where would I be'
No one said anything and they looked at me as if I had grown another head.
So I said ' In golf would you ever consider behind the player as meaning looking at the players back as he hit the ball'
Never,no and shaking of heads.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 10, 2014)

Robobum said:



			What's HNSP again?
		
Click to expand...

Historic Natural Standing Position


----------



## Slab (Jan 10, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			So were you standing behind the ball not standing behind him?

I was in the company of a group of golfers last night mainly decent players and Turnberry members.
I asked them 'In golf if I said I was standing behind the player where would I be'
No one said anything and they looked at me as if I had grown another head.
So I said ' In golf would you ever consider behind the player as meaning looking at the players back as he hit the ball'
Never,no and shaking of heads.
		
Click to expand...

Terminology cant be used as evidence I'm afraid... golf is littered with terms that most golfers don't understand i.e open hips at impact or turn back to target! 

But it is interesting that they also had no idea what was meant by _standing behind the player_ until you explained further!


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 10, 2014)

Slab said:



			Terminology cant be used as evidence I'm afraid... golf is littered with terms that most golfers don't understand i.e open hips at impact or turn back to target!
		
Click to expand...

And stack and tilt. Still no idea what that is but did see that Poulter had tweeted that it was a load of rubbish.


----------



## SocketRocket (Jan 10, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			Edit. Deleted because I can't be bothered.
		
Click to expand...



Should you be bothered that you deleted it?


----------



## SocketRocket (Jan 10, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Historic Natural Standing Position
		
Click to expand...

Would that be the 'New HNSP' Laws or the 'Old HNSP' Laws


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 10, 2014)

Slab said:



			Terminology cant be used as evidence I'm afraid... golf is littered with terms that most golfers don't understand i.e open hips at impact or turn back to target! 

But it is interesting that they also had no idea what was meant by _standing behind the player_ until you explained further!
		
Click to expand...

Sorry to disappoint you Slab but HNSP is not really serious.

Re standing behind the player in golf, you miss the point, to them it was so obvious what it was that anything else would be considered weird.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 10, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Would that be the 'New HNSP' Laws or the 'Old HNSP' Laws
		
Click to expand...

Standard issue, bill going through Holyrood as we speak.
Seeking regional international protection.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 10, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			So were you standing behind the ball not standing behind him?

I was in the company of a group of golfers last night mainly decent players and Turnberry members.
I asked them 'In golf if I said I was standing behind the player where would I be'
No one said anything and they looked at me as if I had grown another head.
So I said ' In golf would you ever consider behind the player as meaning looking at the players back as he hit the ball'
Never,no and shaking of heads.
		
Click to expand...

I know I said I was out but the context of the term "behind" for this thread was set by SilH in the very first post...




			I won't always ask a player to move if they are standing behind me - though I might feel a little uncomfortable as I can't see what they are up to or maybe about to do (that might cause me a distraction mid-swing). But I really don't like someone standing a the back of the tee looking down the fairway as I am about to tee off.
		
Click to expand...

So behind in the context of the thread, set by the OP, doesn't mean the back of the tee.


----------



## john0 (Jan 10, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Sorry to disappoint you Slab but HNSP is not really serious.

Re standing behind the player in golf, you miss the point, *to them it was so obvious what it was that anything else would be considered weird*.
		
Click to expand...

And they are Turnberry members so they must be right


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 10, 2014)

Hawkeye 
Re earlier post where I agreed that behind the ball is a much better term.
It might take a generation to change.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 10, 2014)

john0 said:



			And they are Turnberry members so they must be right
		
Click to expand...

I see you chose to leave out the 'decent players' bit! 

[BTW you did not reply to my question on the Seniors thread]


----------



## john0 (Jan 10, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I see you chose to leave out the 'decent players' bit! 

[BTW you did not reply to my question on the Seniors thread]
		
Click to expand...

So just because they are 'decent players' and 'Turnberry members' this makes their opinion worth more than that of a 20 handicapper at a lesser well known course?

[BTW - you didnt ask me a question on the Seniors thread]


----------



## Snelly (Jan 10, 2014)

john0 said:



			So just because they are 'decent players' and 'Turnberry members' this makes their opinion worth more than that of a 20 handicapper at a lesser well known course?
		
Click to expand...


Yes.


----------



## john0 (Jan 10, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Yes.
		
Click to expand...

Speaking of golf snobs......


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 10, 2014)

john0 said:



			So just because they are 'decent players' and 'Turnberry members' this makes their opinion worth more than that of a 20 handicapper at a lesser well known course?

Depends on the history of the 20 handicapper. 
If he was an 87 year old former English Amateur Champion who had served years on County committee duty I would say probably not.

The 'decent players' in the Turnberry [and other clubs] group had all at one time been single figure and two had been +  handicap players.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## john0 (Jan 10, 2014)

Just because someone has once been a low handicapper doesnt automatically make them superior to ther golfers though.  I have played with plenty of low handicap golfers who can't even stand in the universally accepted place on the tee box


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 10, 2014)

DfT, you're better at revising history than the bloody Yanks!!!


----------



## NWJocko (Jan 10, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Should you be bothered that you deleted it?
		
Click to expand...

Not entirely sure I understand what you mean, may be Friday morning syndrome though....


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 10, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Many jumped on the 'stoopid' bandwaggon early on and have then desperately tried to justify there comments after the R&A etiquette notes were posted. They would not want to look like they know nothing about something as basic as this would they now.
		
Click to expand...

That's how it seems to me - as I am rather baffled why my pointing out the 'HNSP' has generated 65 pages of responses.  Whether the 'HNSP' arose out of considerations of safety, respect, etiquette or whatever I don't really know.  But there it is.  

Previous generations of golfers could just as easily have stood elsewhere, in any and all of the places that others here seem to deem completely acceptable - but previous generations didn't.  Why many of today's generation seem to think that something has changed that invalidates the reasoning behind the 'HNSP' and therefore allows them to stand wherever they deem OK I just don't know. Because in respect of players teeing off absolutely nothing has changed - things are as they have always been.

As I mentioned - it does seem that many today have an attitude that it is fine to challenge or ignore this sort of stuff - and indeed to challenge the rules - if they don't think it need apply to them.


----------



## NWJocko (Jan 10, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			That's how it seems to me - as I am rather baffled why my pointing out the 'HNSP' has generated 65 pages of responses.  Whether the 'HNSP' arose out of considerations of safety, respect, etiquette or whatever I don't really know.  But there it is.  

Previous generations of golfers could just as easily have stood elsewhere, in any and all of the places that others here seem to deem completely acceptable - but previous generations didn't.  Why many of today's generation seem to think that something has changed that invalidates the reasoning behind the 'HNSP' and therefore allows them to stand wherever they deem OK I just don't know. Because in respect of players teeing off absolutely nothing has changed - things are as they have always been.

As I mentioned - it does seem that many today have an attitude that it is fine to challenge or ignore this sort of stuff - and indeed to challenge the rules - if they don't think it need apply to them.
		
Click to expand...

This is the whole point though (pulling hair out, whats left anyway...)

You didn't just "point it out".

You pointed it out and then carried on to say that everyone who doesn't do as you say has no sense of etiquette and is wrong!!

When I learned the game as a kid in St Andrews with my grandad and his Cat 1 (seeing as DfT thinks thats the acceptable criteria for a valid opinion) friends not one of them traipsed back and forth across the tees on the Old Course.

Where practical, yes they stood where you mention.  Where not, they didn't and stood behind the players back (not the line of the ball).

Are you seriously suggesting that they were the only golfers from "the previous generations" not to follow the Glasgow muni law of HNSP!?


----------



## JamesR (Jan 10, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			That's how it seems to me - as I am rather baffled why my pointing out the 'HNSP' has generated 65 pages of responses.  Whether the 'HNSP' arose out of considerations of safety, respect, etiquette or whatever I don't really know.  But there it is.  

Previous generations of golfers could just as easily have stood elsewhere, in any and all of the places that others here seem to deem completely acceptable - but previous generations didn't.  Why many of today's generation seem to think that something has changed that invalidates the reasoning behind the 'HNSP' and therefore allows them to stand wherever they deem OK I just don't know. Because in respect of players teeing off absolutely nothing has changed - things are as they have always been.

As I mentioned - it does seem that many today have an attitude that it is fine to challenge or ignore this sort of stuff - and indeed to challenge the rules - if they don't think it need apply to them.
		
Click to expand...

I was taught golf by formerly single figure, senior citizens from Derbyshire. A county in which etiquette is of paramount importance (just ask Mr Darcy of Pemberley), and no one made a great big song and dance about where to stand, none of them were paranoid that people were doing things behind their backs, they just let common sense prevail.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 10, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Previous generations of golfers could just as easily have stood elsewhere, in any and all of the places that others here seem to deem completely acceptable - but previous generations didn't.  Why many of today's generation seem to think that something has changed that invalidates the reasoning behind the 'HNSP' and therefore allows them to stand wherever they deem OK I just don't know. Because in respect of players teeing off absolutely nothing has changed - things are as they have always been.
		
Click to expand...

Firstly there is no such thing as an"HNSP" or whatever else you choose to call it. There has been no argument that you were told this info by your glaswegian mini chap but you seem to be ignoring anyone who points out that there are other players from that generation that don't use the same convention. I have no doubt that what he told you was what he and in all likelihood the people he played with did bit you seem unable or unwilling to accept that not everyone of that age/generation does it.

And no one is challenging any rules. Just your mythical HNSP which falls under etiquette and doesn't happen to be written down in the rules you say we are challenging.


----------



## Slab (Jan 10, 2014)

@ SiLH

Apologies its a long thread so i may have forgotten if you've answered this already but...

What is it you fear/expect a player to do if he's standing behind your back (except snelly) that makes this position _*less *_desirable/optimum than facing you? 

And what effect or impact does facing you carry that mitigates the risk of said player doing the same thing they would do behind your back?


----------



## ger147 (Jan 10, 2014)

Where you should stand on the tee is covered by the R&A in the Etiquette section of their rule book. I am more than happy to abide by that.

Everything else being expounded on this thread is nonsense IMO.


----------



## Hacker Khan (Jan 10, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			As I mentioned - it does seem that many today have an attitude that it is fine to challenge or ignore this sort of stuff - and indeed to challenge the rules - if they don't think it need apply to them.
		
Click to expand...

I know what you are saying, it's Anarchy in the UK on just about every course I go to nowadays.


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 10, 2014)

ger147 said:



			Where you should stand on the tee is covered by the R&A in the Etiquette section of their rule book. I am more than happy to abide by that.

Everything else being expounded on this thread is nonsense IMO.
		
Click to expand...

And in the video which does suggest that standing diagonally opposite the player teeing off is good. Wonder how they came up with that position........

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Etiquette/Consideration-for-Others.aspx


----------



## Robobum (Jan 10, 2014)

In this pic, unless someone was stood too close in the area where the red arrow is, they would never be interfering with play.

If I was stood in any of the green shaded areas and was asked to move - I'd think you were being an arse. I'd still move, but you're an arse none the less.


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Jan 10, 2014)

Slab said:



			@ SiLH

Apologies its a long thread so i may have forgotten if you've answered this already but...

What is it you fear/expect a player to do if he's standing behind your back (except snelly) that makes this position _*less *_desirable/optimum than facing you? 

And what effect or impact does facing you carry that mitigates the risk of said player doing the same thing they would do behind your back?
		
Click to expand...

Not really being bothered either way about this whole argument, but I can answer this point. With someone stood behind your back, if you can't see them, you have no idea if they are about to make a noise (accidentaly, not deliberately) by getting something out their bag or suchlike. If they are in front of you, you can see if they are making any movements before you swing.

I think.


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 10, 2014)

I honestly think that SILH has let the standing behind his back get into his head. The main reason you would stand across from the player is safety. No one wants to get hit, nor does one want to be the person who hits his partner. 

Standing directly across from someone is undoubtedly more off putting that someone well back, or anywhere out of view. This is indisputable. 

If even if someone stands directly opposite you, you cannot influence them to make sure they stay deathly quiet. you have to trust those with you to do this. the same way you would trust them to tell you how many strokes they had taken etc. 

my preference for standing when someone is teeing off would be at the players 2 o clock position and also well back.


----------



## Robobum (Jan 10, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Not really being bothered either way about this whole argument, but I can answer this point. With someone stood behind your back, if you can't see them, you have no idea if they are about to make a noise (accidentaly, not deliberately) by getting something out their bag or suchlike. If they are in front of you, you can see if they are making any movements before you swing.

I think.
		
Click to expand...

What would you do if they were in front of you and making a noise in their bag that you can hear?


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 10, 2014)

ger147 said:



			Where you should stand on the tee is covered by the R&A in the Etiquette section of their rule book. I am more than happy to abide by that.

Everything else being expounded on this thread is nonsense IMO.
		
Click to expand...

Well said Ger I think that covers everything I have to say on this.
It totally astounds me how many people are not prepared to follow those simple guidelines.


----------



## Snelly (Jan 10, 2014)

Slab said:



			What is it you fear/expect a player to do if he's standing behind your back (except snelly)
		
Click to expand...

Could you clarify your meaning here please?  PM me I you think it more suitable.


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 10, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			I honestly think that SILH has let the standing behind his back get into his head. The main reason you would stand across from the player is safety. No one wants to get hit, nor does one want to be the person who hits his partner. 

Standing directly across from someone is undoubtedly more off putting that someone well back, or anywhere out of view. This is indisputable. 

If even if someone stands directly opposite you, you cannot influence them to make sure they stay deathly quiet. you have to trust those with you to do this. the same way you would trust them to tell you how many strokes they had taken etc. 

my preference for standing when someone is teeing off would be at the players 2 o clock position and also well back.
		
Click to expand...

Do you mean where the Pro's and caddies stand the vast majority of the time ?


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 10, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Do you mean where the Pro's and caddies stand the vast majority of the time ?
		
Click to expand...

yes when there is room.  I wont bust a gut to get there though. I also cant bring my bag onto the tee like the pros.


----------



## Slab (Jan 10, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Could you clarify your meaning here please?  PM me I you think it more suitable.
		
Click to expand...

Your amusing post earlier in the thread thatâ€™s already been referenced several times since

Apologies if i have the contributor ID'd wrongly

_*Sorry Snelly I do have it wrong, it was Smiffy that made the funny post, sorry*_


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 10, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			yes when there is room.  I wont bust a gut to get there though. I also cant bring my bag onto the tee like the pros.
		
Click to expand...

:thup:


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 10, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			And in the video which does suggest that standing diagonally opposite the player teeing off is good. Wonder how they came up with that position........

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Etiquette/Consideration-for-Others.aspx

Click to expand...

Can  I just clarify a point. Are you posting that video in support of SILH? I have to ask, because as far as I am can tell, that video does not support his view. SILH has stated that you should stand facing the golfer on the tee, not to the side and behind (down the line). IMO, that video merely serves to support most everyone else's viewpoint.. It also doesn't state that you should move to the opposite side of the tee box when a lefty approaches. That is SILH's opinion....


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 10, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			:thup:
		
Click to expand...

furthermore, if it is not my honour, I wont select my club until I have seen how the other players balls react in the wind / when they land. I don't need to know the exact club they used to help me with my own club selection. 

if the bags are left at any distance from the teeing pegs, this would add unnecessary time to the round.


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Jan 10, 2014)

Robobum said:



			What would you do if they were in front of you and making a noise in their bag that you can hear?
		
Click to expand...

By my way of thinking, you could see them doing that in front of you, and could see when they were stopping, and could then swing (if you're that put off by it). If someone is behind your back, there is much more of an element of surprise if a noise suddenly occurs.

I may be wrong, but that is the way I have read the justification of standing in front. As I said riiiiight at the start of the thread, ideally I stand at about 2 o clock, if we are all stood on the tee box, but there is a significant number of times at my course I will stand off the tee box with my bag, behind the players back.


----------



## JamesR (Jan 10, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			By my way of thinking, you could see them doing that in front of you, and could see when they were stopping, and could then swing (if you're that put off by it). If someone is behind your back, there is much more of an element of surprise if a noise suddenly occurs.
		
Click to expand...

He should just concentrate on the ball & the shot to follow rather than what his PPs are doing in front or behind him.

I suppose if he's on the right hand side of the fairway and his FC in on the left hand side, ie he has his back to them for his approach shot, he asks them to come all the way over to the other side of him, just in case them make a noise?


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Jan 10, 2014)

Gil_Emott said:



			He should just concentrate on the ball & the shot to follow rather than what his PPs are doing in front or behind him.

I suppose if he's on the right hand side of the fairway and his FC in on the left hand side, ie he has his back to them for his approach shot, he asks them to come all the way over to the other side of him, just in case them make a noise?
		
Click to expand...

I'm really going to regret getting involved with this aren't I! 

You're being ever so pedantic with that final point, and it's a very different situation. You aren't in close quarters like you are on the tee. 

Clearly, the main point to take is to *stand still and be quiet*, but this is easier to see if someone is in front of you.

If Sergio could see Tiger in front of him, he would have seen him take the club out of his bag... (I realise this is on the fairway, but the logic applies).

For what it's worth, i'm not bothered about the "universally accepted" and all that, I'm just thinking with my logic.


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 10, 2014)

it implies a lack of trust in fellow players which doesn't sit well with many on here!  

its a bit like the school teacher and naughty pupil.  " come up here boy, sit right in front of me here so I can keep an eye on you ".


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 10, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Can  I just clarify a point. Are you posting that video in support of SILH? I have to ask, because as far as I am can tell, that video does not support his view. SILH has stated that you should stand facing the golfer on the tee, not to the side and behind (down the line). IMO, that video merely serves to support most everyone else's viewpoint.. It also doesn't state that you should move to the opposite side of the tee box when a lefty approaches. That is SILH's opinion....
		
Click to expand...

I post it as I believe it shows the right place to be. IMHO that is the bast place to view a FP tee shot from, as it gives a different perspective from him/her should they not pick up the Ball flight .No it doesn't state that you should move for a left hander and I'd hope common sense to prevail .
I view this thread as not taking sides but one where some of us have explained that we were taught that standing in that position was good etiquette.  
One of the games greatest player says he prefers players to stand there also so it must have crossed the pond at some stage.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 10, 2014)

I blame the mods for this. In SilH's very first post, he left us with the line..




			Mods - you can now close this if you wish now that I have clarified my statement.
		
Click to expand...

shame on you mods, shame on you


----------



## JamesR (Jan 10, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			I'm really going to regret getting involved with this aren't I! 

You're being ever so pedantic with that final point, and it's a very different situation. You aren't in close quarters like you are on the tee. 

Clearly, the main point to take is to *stand still and be quiet*, but this is easier to see if someone is in front of you.

If Sergio could see Tiger in front of him, he would have seen him take the club out of his bag... (I realise this is on the fairway, but the logic applies).

For what it's worth, i'm not bothered about the "universally accepted" and all that, I'm just thinking with my logic.
		
Click to expand...

1 - yes you probably will.

2 - I am being a little pedantic, but what if they are fairly close on the fairway? Say they both ripped their drives 250, and finished a couple of yards apart, based on what the R&A say about standing in the HNSP, should his PP/FC move from the DMZ?

3 - Yes, stand still and be quiet, that's what I said on one of the first 10 pages, and I stand (still & quietly) by this.


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 10, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			One of the games greatest player says he prefers players to stand there also so it must have crossed the pond at some stage.
		
Click to expand...

Will I ring messi and ask him his views on goal line technology and a winter world cup? Surely he is the only one who can make these decisions! :rofl:


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 10, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			Will I ring messi and ask him his views on goal line technology and a winter world cup? Surely he is the only one who can make these decisions! :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

No Keiran Read :rofl: Yes sorry forgot to say it was Arnold Palmer.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 10, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Not really being bothered either way about this whole argument, but I can answer this point. With someone stood behind your back, if you can't see them, you have no idea if they are about to make a noise (accidentaly, not deliberately) by getting something out their bag or suchlike. If they are in front of you, you can see if they are making any movements before you swing.

I think.
		
Click to expand...

At our place, players stand either facing or behind you as you tee off depending on the hole, it's probably about 50-50 of each. Regardless of where they are standing, I don't see them, I don't see what they are doing and I am not concerned about them making an unexpected sudden movement or noise because I rely on the fact that etiquette dictates that they won't. In fact, while I am preparing to play my shot I'm not even consciously aware they are there. They could be behind me juggling golf balls standing on one leg for all I care because all I am thinking about is my shot.


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Jan 10, 2014)

Gil_Emott said:



			1 - yes you probably will.

2 - I am being a little pedantic, but what if they are fairly close on the fairway? Say they both ripped their drives 250, and finished a couple of yards apart, based on what the R&A say about standing in the HNSP, should his PP/FC move from the DMZ?

3 - Yes, stand still and be quiet, that's what I said on one of the first 10 pages, and I stand (still & quietly) by this.
		
Click to expand...

DMZ?? What is that?

The fairway is a little different though, in that if that were the case, if I had ripped it slightly further, I would hang back and let my PP/FC get to their ball first. I wouldn't be close, and therefore, it doesn't matter where I stand. It only becomes an issue on the teebox because of the lack of space there normally is,  compared to the massive fairway. 

If someone is 10/15 yards away, as I would be on the fairway, I couldn't care less where they are.


----------



## bobmac (Jan 10, 2014)

IMHO, it's not so much the content of the OP and subsequent posts that some people have a problem with, it's the way it was offered.
Would this thread of had over 650 replies if the OP had read something like.....




			Once upon a time when I first started playing golf, a senior player at our club taught me that where possible, the safest place to stand on the tee is facing the player and slightly back.
Is this still taught these days ?
		
Click to expand...

I suspect there would have been about 20 replies and maybe a few would be more aware of where they stood on the tee.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 10, 2014)

bobmac said:



			IMHO, it's not so much the content of the OP and subsequent posts that some people have a problem with, it's the way it was offered.
Would this thread of had over 650 replies if the OP had read something like.....



I suspect there would have been about 20 replies and maybe a few would be more aware of where they stood on the tee.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly!


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 10, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			I post it as I believe it shows the right place to be. IMHO that is the bast place to view a FP tee shot from, as it gives a different perspective from him/her should they not pick up the Ball flight .No it doesn't state that you should move for a left hander and I'd hope common sense to prevail .
I view this thread as not taking sides but one where some of us have explained that we were taught that standing in that position was good etiquette.  
One of the games greatest player says he prefers players to stand there also so it must have crossed the pond at some stage.
		
Click to expand...

I fully agree with the standing position as shown in the video. That has never been the discussion really. I think the discussion has really centred on certain posters and their insistance that there is only one place to stand, and if you aren't stood there then you are an ignorant oaf who hasn't played the game for very long and is probably a member at one of those pesky modern clubs where they actually encourage the lower classes to play the game.....

Anyhoo, I might make a model later showing where I think people should stand....:thup:


----------



## SocketRocket (Jan 10, 2014)

Robobum said:



			What would you do if they were in front of you and making a noise in their bag that you can hear?
		
Click to expand...

I tend to walk away from the ball , make a few practice swings while giving them that look my Wife gives me when I say "Is that a new pair of shoes"


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 10, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



*DMZ?? What is that?*

The fairway is a little different though, in that if that were the case, if I had ripped it slightly further, I would hang back and let my PP/FC get to their ball first. I wouldn't be close, and therefore, it doesn't matter where I stand. It only becomes an issue on the teebox because of the lack of space there normally is,  compared to the massive fairway. 

If someone is 10/15 yards away, as I would be on the fairway, I couldn't care less where they are.
		
Click to expand...

It's an area of the network separated by a firewall, please god don't tell me there is a preferred place for me to stand in the data centre while I'm working?


----------



## patricks148 (Jan 10, 2014)

bobmac said:



			IMHO, it's not so much the content of the OP and subsequent posts that some people have a problem with, it's the way it was offered.
Would this thread of had over 650 replies if the OP had read something like.....



I suspect there would have been about 20 replies and maybe a few would be more aware of where they stood on the tee.
		
Click to expand...

Or Cared Bob.

I can't believe its gone to 69 pages... is the a shakes head smilie?


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 10, 2014)

it was the slight on peoples conduct that drew offence. then subsequent labelling of people as ignorant based on hearsay! 

:thup:


----------



## bobmac (Jan 10, 2014)

Post 68 didn't help either oo:


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Jan 10, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			based on hearsay!
		
Click to expand...

As far as I'm aware, I don't think any of the early 2000's bank Hearsay were keen golfers of note. (This is just a guess, I'm not sure of their individual opinions on where to stand)


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 10, 2014)

patricks148 said:



			Or Cared Bob.

I can't believe its gone to 69 pages... is the a shakes head smilie?
		
Click to expand...

My current course is closed, and my future course is not confirmed yet. My only other option to this thread is going shopping with my better half... I need to keep it going....


----------



## One Planer (Jan 10, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			My current course is closed, and my future course is not confirmed yet. My only other option to this thread is going shopping with my better half... I need to keep it going....
		
Click to expand...

Best of luck :thup:

Our track is open with no rain forcast today or tomorrow 

Would you like me to close the thread now?


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 10, 2014)

Gareth said:



			Best of luck :thup:

Our track is open with no rain forcast today or tomorrow 

Would you like me to close the thread now?

Click to expand...

You know that bit in "Taken" where Liam Neeson says that he will find you, and he will kill you?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 10, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			This is the whole point though (pulling hair out, whats left anyway...)

You didn't just "point it out".

You pointed it out and then carried on to say that everyone who doesn't do as you say has no sense of etiquette and is wrong!!
		
Click to expand...

I am in the same place as you in respect of what hair I have not pulled out.  

I certainly said that I thought it a rule of golfing etiquette to stand in the 'HNSP' wherever possible - and therefore by implication if you stand elsewhere when you could stand at the HNSP then you are in breach of etiquette.  By extension were you to say that it is OK to stand elsewhere I would indeed say you were wrong.

And that really is all I said - and say.  I *believe *that etiquette expects you to stand whenever possible in the 'HNSP'.  However as many here do not believe that there is such a thing as the HNSP, or indeed that even if they do then it was never considered etiquette - then we are in stalemate.  

Does what is stated by the R&A on this matter count as etiquette?  If I am told (as I have been) that golfing etiquette is limited to what the R&A or USPGA cover under their section in the rule book on the rules of etiquette then I, and Arnold Palmer(from an earlier post), would beg to disagree.

I would hope that all would agree that, when the circumstances apply, any rule of etiquette should not be optional and at the discretion of the individual who is in breach.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 10, 2014)

ger147 said:



			Where you should stand on the tee is covered by the R&A in the Etiquette section of their rule book. I am more than happy to abide by that.

Everything else being expounded on this thread is nonsense IMO.
		
Click to expand...

@ger147 - I can't now remember if what is in the R&A rules supports what I am saying or not


----------



## ger147 (Jan 10, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			@ger147 - I can't now remember if what is in the R&A rules supports what I am saying or not 

Click to expand...

It doesn't.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 10, 2014)

Slab said:



			@ SiLH

Apologies its a long thread so i may have forgotten if you've answered this already but...

What is it you fear/expect a player to do if he's standing behind your back (except snelly) that makes this position _*less *_desirable/optimum than facing you? 

And what effect or impact does facing you carry that mitigates the risk of said player doing the same thing they would do behind your back?
		
Click to expand...

@Slab - my point is that what you (and many others) say about where you could stand and associated risks and benefits, doesn't really matter in discussing whether or not there is one agreed 'HNSP'.  

Most of the discussion here has been along the lines of _'you say I should stand there, but what's wrong with standing there, or there, or there?'_ when in fact that has all been besides the point - something that most seem to have missed.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 10, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			I know what you are saying, it's Anarchy in the UK on just about every course I go to nowadays.
		
Click to expand...

As I think  you are actually being serious @HK (not always easy to tell on this forum)- I'll agree with you.


----------



## bladeplayer (Jan 10, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			You know that bit in "Taken" where Liam Neeson says that he will find you, and he will kill you? 

Click to expand...

Good Luck


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 10, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			And in the video which does suggest that standing diagonally opposite the player teeing off is good. Wonder how they came up with that position........

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Etiquette/Consideration-for-Others.aspx

Click to expand...

Harrington pointed across the tee to where he wanted his PP to stand - the 'HNSP' as I and the likes of DfT know it.  He *didn't *say - "you can stand there or there or there - doesn't make a lot of difference to me"


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 10, 2014)

ger147 said:



			It doesn't.
		
Click to expand...

Without changing my stance on the OP I would like to point out that in the R&A rules there is nowhere that it says that if I'm playing matchplay and my opponent is 2 up with 3 to play that I can't punch him unconscious and claim the match by default for him delaying play. However I'm fairly sure that almost everyone on here would agree that I can't do that. Just because it isn't specifically covered in the rules doesn't mean you can do it.

But just to be totally clear, where you stand when a PP or FC is hitting is covered and I maintain that SILH is wrong.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 10, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Can  I just clarify a point. Are you posting that video in support of SILH? I have to ask, because as far as I am can tell, that video does not support his view. SILH has stated that you should stand facing the golfer on the tee, not to the side and behind (down the line). IMO, that video merely serves to support most everyone else's viewpoint.. It also doesn't state that you should move to the opposite side of the tee box when a lefty approaches. That is SILH's opinion....
		
Click to expand...

Actually it does support what I have said.  If you want to disagree and say that what I said or implied was that a player's FCs should all stand on the line of the tee marker rigidly facing him - then go on.  But if you think about that for just one second you'll realise that I could not have been suggesting that - as three players can't stand in the same spot.

And so if had been Mickleson doing the video where do you think he would have directed his PP to stand?


----------



## JamesR (Jan 10, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			DMZ?? What is that?

The fairway is a little different though, in that if that were the case, if I had ripped it slightly further, I would hang back and let my PP/FC get to their ball first. I wouldn't be close, and therefore, it doesn't matter where I stand. It only becomes an issue on the teebox because of the lack of space there normally is,  compared to the massive fairway. 

If someone is 10/15 yards away, as I would be on the fairway, I couldn't care less where they are.
		
Click to expand...

The Demilitarized Zone...a place which, under treaty, enemy forces are banned from entry.


----------



## cleanstrike (Jan 10, 2014)

Gil_Emott said:



			The Demilitarized Zone...a place which, under treaty, enemy forces are banned from entry.
		
Click to expand...


Like Korea. Although I don't think you'd want to play golf there cos it's full of land mines.


----------



## JamesR (Jan 10, 2014)

bobmac said:



			IMHO, it's not so much the content of the OP and subsequent posts that some people have a problem with, it's the way it was offered.
Would this thread of had over 650 replies if the OP had read something like.....



I suspect there would have been about 20 replies and maybe a few would be more aware of where they stood on the tee.
		
Click to expand...

There you go again Bob...please stop using common sense!


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 10, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			furthermore, if it is not my honour, I wont select my club until I have seen how the other players balls react in the wind / when they land. I don't need to know the exact club they used to help me with my own club selection. 

if the bags are left at any distance from the teeing pegs, this would add unnecessary time to the round.
		
Click to expand...

Of course -  but I suggest that 9 times out of 10 you *won't *change the club you were going to use off the tee based upon what other players do.  Besides - I think that using 'club changing and speed of play' is really just a rather fallatious line of argument in this specific context.  The same considerations have always applied - they are nothing new


----------



## JamesR (Jan 10, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And so if had been Mickleson doing the video where do you think he would have directed his PP to stand?
		
Click to expand...

He probably wouldn't have been so high & mighty as to *direct* them, he would have been happy with them doing the sensible thing...standing in the rough at his 10pm jiggling the tees in their pockets


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 10, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Not really being bothered either way about this whole argument, but I can answer this point. With someone stood behind your back, if you can't see them, you have no idea if they are about to make a noise (accidentaly, not deliberately) by getting something out their bag or suchlike. If they are in front of you, you can see if they are making any movements before you swing.

I think.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly - and probably one reason why a 'HNSP' came to pass.


----------



## john0 (Jan 10, 2014)

bobmac said:



			IMHO, it's not so much the content of the OP and subsequent posts that some people have a problem with, it's the way it was offered.
Would this thread of had over 650 replies if the OP had read something like.....



I suspect there would have been about 20 replies and maybe a few would be more aware of where they stood on the tee.
		
Click to expand...

Bob by any chance were you the Senior golfer in the 70's who taught SILH this universally accepted rule on a Glasgow Muni?


----------



## JamesR (Jan 10, 2014)

cleanstrike said:



			Like Korea. Although I don't think you'd want to play golf there cos it's full of land mines.
		
Click to expand...

I may be wrong, but I think there may actually be a course there?


----------



## Snelly (Jan 10, 2014)

john0 said:



			Speaking of golf snobs......
		
Click to expand...

Well observed, monkey hanger!


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 10, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			I honestly think that SILH has let the standing behind his back get into his head.
		
Click to expand...

Actually @gary - I'm not normally that bothered if someone stands behind me - though if they stood fairly close behind me I might be.  Though again - what I might think or be comfortable with doesn't really matter in the context of etiquette.


----------



## Slab (Jan 10, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Actually @gary - I'm not normally that bothered if someone stands behind me - though if they stood fairly close behind me I might be.  Though again - what I might think or be comfortable with doesn't really matter in the context of etiquette.
		
Click to expand...

_Fairly close_ either behind, facing or down my line would all bother me a bit to be honest


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 10, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I blame the mods for this. In SilH's very first post, he left us with the line..



shame on you mods, shame on you 

Click to expand...

Well quite - if only I'd known...


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 10, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



*Without changing my stance on the OP I would like to point out that in the R&A rules there is nowhere that it says that if I'm playing matchplay and my opponent is 2 up with 3 to play that I can't punch him unconscious and claim the match by default for him delaying play*. However I'm fairly sure that almost everyone on here would agree that I can't do that. Just because it isn't specifically covered in the rules doesn't mean you can do it.

But just to be totally clear, where you stand when a PP or FC is hitting is covered and I maintain that SILH is wrong.
		
Click to expand...

Would you shout "Fore" before throwing the punch, if not you may fall foul of a serious breach of etiquette


----------



## Waitforme (Jan 10, 2014)

72 pages


----------



## Stuey01 (Jan 10, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			Without changing my stance on the OP I would like to point out that in the R&A rules there is nowhere that it says that if I'm playing matchplay and my opponent is 2 up with 3 to play that I can't punch him unconscious and claim the match by default for him delaying play. However I'm fairly sure that almost everyone on here would agree that I can't do that. Just because it isn't specifically covered in the rules doesn't mean you can do it.

But just to be totally clear, where you stand when a PP or FC is hitting is covered and I maintain that SILH is wrong.
		
Click to expand...

Well unless you have really long arms you'd probably be in breach of ettiquette because you' be standing too close to him.  But at least you could approach from behind his back, as that's OK by the R&A - element of surprise.


----------



## john0 (Jan 10, 2014)

Waitforme said:



			72 pages 

Click to expand...

Next months GM mag will be a bumper edition when they put the highlights from this in the GM Forum section


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 10, 2014)

[HR][/HR]



Stuey01 said:



			Well unless you have really long arms you'd probably be in breach of ettiquette because you' be standing too close to him.  But at least you could approach from behind his back, as that's OK by the R&A - element of surprise.
		
Click to expand...

What if I let him tee off while I was standing in the HSBC or whatever we're calling it today and then moved in to punch him? Are there rules about how close I can stand after he's hit?

EDIT - After he's hit the ball rather than after I've punched him


----------



## Allanxyz (Jan 10, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			@ger147 - I can't now remember if what is in the R&A rules supports what I am saying or not 

Click to expand...


The R&A does not support your stance... 

As far as I can tell the only thing the R&A have to say on the issue is the below
_"Only tee your ball up when it's your turn to play and remember not to stand close to the ball, directly behind it, or directly behind the hole, when a player is about to swing."

_So you shouldn't stand close to the ball, directly behind it (that is to say on the target line, no-one could possible argue that "behind the ball" means behind the players back, or behind the hole. So the R&A doesn't back up your stance.

I guess you have your opinion that you should always stand infront of the FC unless there is a good reason you cannot (having to cross the teeing area isn't a good reason in your book)... it's fine to have this opinion, but many many others don't share this opinion. They seem to stand next to their bag, whether that means they are infront or behind (not on the line) of the player.

You talk about all these players who are afraid to speak up about people standing in the wrong position. Due to the path on my course I'm behind the players back on 40% of the holes lets say. I'd imagine all the rounds I'd and others had played there would be at least a couple of people brave enough to tell me to make my way across the tee and stand in front...this hasn't happened... why? Maybe it is not an issue and all these people afriad to speak up about their "FC standing in thw wrong place nightmare" don't actually exist... or?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 10, 2014)

Allanxyz said:



			The R&A does not support your stance... 

As far as I can tell the only thing the R&A have to say on the issue is the below
_"Only tee your ball up when it's your turn to play and remember not to stand close to the ball, directly behind it, or directly behind the hole, when a player is about to swing."

_So you shouldn't stand close to the ball, directly behind it (that is to say on the target line, no-one could possible argue that "behind the ball" means behind the players back, or behind the hole. So the R&A doesn't back up your stance.
		
Click to expand...

OK - but the video does demonstrate what I believe to be the correct etiquette




			I guess you have your opinion that you should always stand infront of the FC
		
Click to expand...

I repeat - this is not my opinion - this is what I was taught and believe to be the correct etiquette




			Maybe it is not an issue and all these people afriad to speak up about their "FC standing in thw wrong place nightmare" don't actually exist... or?
		
Click to expand...

You may be correct - but if you accept that some players just might feel uncomfortable about something you do during a round of golf and might feel unable to say anything about it - why not just try and avoid that possibility by making sure you don't do it.  That's simply consideration for your fellow golfer.


----------



## Allanxyz (Jan 10, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			OK - but the video does demonstrate what I believe to be the correct etiquette.
		
Click to expand...

Well that's your opinion also... Padraig says "Don't stand close to the ball or directly behind it" - pretty much as per the text below. He doesn't say you must stand infront. He does point the player to stand next to the bags which happen to be infront, but this also supports my opinion that people basically stand to the side next to their bags. It would have been interesting if the bags were on the other side...




SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I repeat - this is not my opinion - this is what I was taught and believe to be the correct etiquette.
		
Click to expand...

I still believe this is your opinion, just because you were taught somthing and you think it is correct doesn't mean it isn't an opinion to me. It's your opinion based on what you were taught and believe to be correct.





SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			You may be correct - but if you accept that some players just might feel uncomfortable about something you do during a round of golf and might feel unable to say anything about it - why not just try and avoid that possibility by making sure you don't do it. That's simply consideration for your fellow golfer.
		
Click to expand...

It might be that many players feel uncomfortable about you standing in front of them and crossing the tee at every other hole to do it. I wouldn't like to second guess what makes people comfortable or not, so I do what everyone else does (I assume if people felt uncomfortable there would be a lot more crossing of tees) and stand to the side (front or back dpending on where the path is and stay still and quiet)... maybe this makes people uncomfortable but maybe your method does too...we'll never know... unless we get the opinions of a large number of golfers on a forum or something....oh...


----------



## Imurg (Jan 10, 2014)

Whilst playing this morning I had a good think about this.
We stand at the side of the teebox nearest the previous green, that's where we leave our bags.
Sometimes it's facing the right hander, sometimes it's behind his back....
If Fragger and our playing partner Mark crossed over to the other side of the teebox ( to the facing position), I would actually find this quite intimidating, more so if a lefthander had just played and as I'm taking my position on the tee I have 2 or 3 people crossing behind me to scrutinise my style more closely from the other side.
I can't believe that there are many in the World who would actually change position just because a left or right hander is about to play. Can you honestly tell me that, in a 4 ball of 2 lefts and 2 rights, you would potentially cross the teebox 3 times on every tee.....? If so, how would the Greenkeepers feel if everyone did this all the time..? There would be a path of worn grass across the teebox within a few days, even in Summer.

Also, has it ever occurred that "conventions" change..? Is it possible that things have changed and you've missedthe boat...?Not saying anything has but to pronounce others as "stoopid" and "ignorant" doesn't endear oneself to anyone


----------



## john0 (Jan 10, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Whilst playing this morning I had a good think about this.
We stand at the side of the teebox nearest the previous green, that's where we leave our bags.
Sometimes it's facing the right hander, sometimes it's behind his back....
If Fragger and our playing partner Mark crossed over to the other side of the teebox ( to the facing position), I would actually find this quite intimidating, more so if a lefthander had just played and as I'm taking my position on the tee I have 2 or 3 people crossing behind me to scrutinise my style more closely from the other side.
I can't believe that there are many in the World who would actually change position just because a left or right hander is about to play. Can you honestly tell me that, in a 4 ball of 2 lefts and 2 rights, you would potentially cross the teebox 3 times on every tee.....? If so, how would the Greenkeepers feel if everyone did this all the time..? There would be a path of worn grass across the teebox within a few days, even in Summer.

Also, has it ever occurred that "conventions" change..? Is it possible that things have changed and you've missedthe boat...?Not saying anything has but to pronounce others as "stoopid" and "ignorant" doesn't endear oneself to anyone
		
Click to expand...

Good post Imurg :thup: ...it's about time you had one!

I think there are going to be a lot of people who are playing this weekend who will be analyzing where everyone stands on the tee box, and whether anyone crosses over to the other side for a leftie.......which means that this thread still has a couple of days at least to run and run


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 10, 2014)

Allanxyz said:



			Well that's your opinion also... Padraig says "Don't stand close to the ball or directly behind it" - pretty much as per the text below. He doesn't say you must stand infront. He does point the player to stand next to the bags which happen to be infront, but this also supports my opinion that people basically stand to the side next to their bags. It would have been interesting if the bags were on the other side...




I still believe this is your opinion, just because you were taught somthing and you think it is correct doesn't mean it isn't an opinion to me. It's your opinion based on what you were taught and believe to be correct.





It might be that many players feel uncomfortable about you standing in front of them and crossing the tee at every other hole to do it. I wouldn't like to second guess what makes people comfortable or not, so I do what everyone else does (I assume if people felt uncomfortable there would be a lot more crossing of tees) and stand to the side (front or back dpending on where the path is and stay still and quiet)... maybe this makes people uncomfortable but maybe your method does too...we'll never know... unless we get the opinions of a large number of golfers on a forum or something....oh...
		
Click to expand...

I understand and get all of what you say - but I think you are missing the point about my simple belief in that there *is * (or at least was) etiquette in respect of a 'HNSP' and what is actually involved in putting this etiquette into practice - not a lot.

I'm going to give up now as we seem to be at the point where some understand and agree with what I'm on about - and others haven't heard of it so generally argue against it and dismiss it.  

And this is the pity.  Because if I am correct in what I have suggested then by the reactions of those here it would appear that a simple little bit of etiquette will be lost from how we play the game.

I'm out.


----------



## Imurg (Jan 10, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Because if I am correct in what I have suggested then by the reactions of those here it would appear that a simple little bit of etiquette will be lost from how we play the game..
		
Click to expand...

As it seems the majority do not use this "convention" it would appear that, for the most part, it is been lost.
And is the game any less enjoyable because of this...?


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 10, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I'm going to give up now as we seem to be at the point where some understand and agree with what I'm on about - and others haven't heard of it so generally argue against it and dismiss it.  


I'm out.
		
Click to expand...

You just can't help yourself can you? Your implication from the above statement is that anyone who is disagreeing with you simply does not understand what you are saying. Let me be clear, I understand completely what you are saying. I simply do not agree with it. I am not ill mannered, nor am I ill educated. I make every effort to ensure that I do not hinder my PP or FC whilst on the tee box.

I should also point out that I am not trying to change your mind. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion.

In my mind it is the simplest of tasks.... I will follow the path to the tee box, then I will stand on the path, behind the tee markers, out of immediate sight, making no noise and not moving. Simple and elegant.


----------



## Allanxyz (Jan 10, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I understand and get all of what you say - but I think you are missing the point about my simple belief in that there *is *(or at least was) etiquette in respect of a 'HNSP' and what is actually involved in putting this etiquette into practice - not a lot.

I'm going to give up now as we seem to be at the point where some understand and agree with what I'm on about - and others haven't heard of it so generally argue against it and dismiss it. 

And this is the pity. Because if I am correct in what I have suggested then by the reactions of those here it would appear that a simple little bit of etiquette will be lost from how we play the game.

I'm out.
		
Click to expand...

That's a shame (I'm not being sarcastic either) Maybe your belief of this past etiquette is correct... I'm not going to argue with you there. What the R&A says* now* doesn't back this up.

My issue is that you seem to think the world is a worse place for this. I think pretty much all on here have pretty much said that you should respect your FCs, stay quiet and move if requested. This doesn't sound like a terrible world to me.

You're correct, there isn't much effort involved in putting your ettiquette into practice, but are you the arbiter of what makes people feel uncomfortable? It seems that from the small sample of the forum, I get the general feeling nobody minds if you stand next to your bag behind the players back. Many have a issue with behind the line and I think most wouldn't do this.

Maybe we should set up a vote on how many people would feel comfortable with FCs folling you across greens to get in front of you all the time... as IMurg suggests, this might make people uncomfortable as well...


----------



## Robobum (Jan 10, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I understand and get all of what you say - but I think you are missing the point about my simple belief in that there *is * (or at least was) etiquette in respect of a 'HNSP' and what is actually involved in putting this etiquette into practice - not a lot.

I'm going to give up now as we seem to be at the point where some understand and agree with what I'm on about - and others haven't heard of it so generally argue against it and dismiss it.  

And this is the pity.  Because if I am correct in what I have suggested then by the reactions of those here it would appear that a simple little bit of etiquette will be lost from how we play the game.

I'm out.
		
Click to expand...

Whilst polite and well worded, this post is pretty insulting (along with others of yours in this thread).

You seem to take real objection when your POV is not agreed with. That's sad.


----------



## CMAC (Jan 10, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Whilst playing this morning I had a good think about this.
*We stand at the side of the teebox nearest the previous green, that's where we leave our bags.
Sometimes it's facing the right hander, sometimes it's behind his back....
If Fragger and our playing partner Mark crossed over to the other side of the teebox ( to the facing position), I would actually find this quite intimidating,* more so if a lefthander had just played and as I'm taking my position on the tee I have 2 or 3 people crossing behind me to scrutinise my style more closely from the other side.
I can't believe that there are many in the World who would actually change position just because a left or right hander is about to play. Can you honestly tell me that, in a 4 ball of 2 lefts and 2 rights, you would potentially cross the teebox 3 times on every tee.....? If so, how would the Greenkeepers feel if everyone did this all the time..? There would be a path of worn grass across the teebox within a few days, even in Summer.

Also, has it ever occurred that "conventions" change..? Is it possible that things have changed and you've missedthe boat...?Not saying anything has but to pronounce others as "stoopid" and "ignorant" doesn't endear oneself to anyone
		
Click to expand...

exactly! we have similar, I _know_ they are out my way and its actually less of a distraction than 3 FC's standing opposite me in loud garish colours trying to act like trees...unsuccessfully


----------



## Snelly (Jan 10, 2014)

Robobum said:



			Whilst polite and well worded, this post is pretty insulting (along with others of yours in this thread).
.
		
Click to expand...

That is a contradiction in terms and I disagree.  How anyone can be insulted (a strong term) by the posts in question is beyond me. 

I think SILH has debated this subject quite fairly really.  


All that said, this whole subject is a mountain made from a molehill.  

In summary, based on historical best practice, everyone should really stand where he stated as it was traditionally the right thing to do.  However, it is clear from this thread that this is something that has now in general terms, disappeared from club golf.  If this is the case, I think it is a bit of a shame but no big deal really.  Stand wherever and keep quiet and still seems to be fair enough.   

The disappearance of this quirk though is based on an interesting assumption which is - are the members of this forum deemed to be an accurate representation of the golfing community in the UK.   I would suggest not but that is the subject for a whole new thread.


----------



## Waitforme (Jan 10, 2014)

john0 said:



			Next months GM mag will be a bumper edition when they put the highlights from this in the GM Forum section
		
Click to expand...

Ah, hadn't realised there were highlights.


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 10, 2014)

Waitforme said:



			Ah, hadn't realised there were highlights.
		
Click to expand...

There aren't any...


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 10, 2014)

Was chatting to my MiL about this subject, a lady who took up this great game nearly 60 years ago, and one of the first things she was taught was to "Stand over there ( as in the video ) and never never stand behind the player teeing off "
This game is a changing for sure .


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 10, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Was chatting to my MiL about this subject, a lady who took up this great game nearly 60 years ago, and one of the first things she was taught was to "Stand over there ( as in the video ) and never never stand behind the player teeing off "
This game is a changing for sure .
		
Click to expand...

And what was her definition of behind?


----------



## Vice (Jan 10, 2014)

*Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*

Follow on from these majestic threads

No need to post in this thread, rather go here ---->  Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off


----------



## Hacker Khan (Jan 10, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Was chatting to my MiL about this subject, a lady who took up this great game nearly 60 years ago,
		
Click to expand...

For a minute I thought you's typed MiLf.  Which scared me a bit


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 10, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			And what was her definition of behind?

Click to expand...

Facing their back :thup:


----------



## Hacker Khan (Jan 10, 2014)

Snelly said:



			are the members of this forum deemed to be an accurate representation of the golfing community in the UK.   .
		
Click to expand...

I bloody hope not judging by the fact that this thread has generated so much interest.  The conversation in all clubhouses must be riveting if it was the case....


----------



## In_The_Rough (Jan 10, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*

It just gets better and better. Voted Don't care provided they out of the way, still and quiet. Do not think this will make over 700 replies but I may be wrong


----------



## john0 (Jan 10, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*

What's HNSP again?


----------



## One Planer (Jan 10, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



john0 said:



			What's HNSP again? And can you get cream for it? 

Click to expand...

:thup:


----------



## Vice (Jan 10, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*

Historic Natural Standing Position

c'mon get with it!



john0 said:



			What's HNSP again? 

Click to expand...


----------



## john0 (Jan 10, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*

SILH is now creating numberous email accounts in order to setup new usernames so he can have more than one vote


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 10, 2014)

Snelly said:



			In summary, based on historical best practice, everyone should really stand where he stated as it was traditionally the right thing to do.
		
Click to expand...

But isn't that the reason that this thread has gone on for over 700 posts? The assertion that in front facing the player is the traditional place to stand/based on historical best practice/HNSP or whatever else you wish to call it. I don't argue that it is where SILH was told to stand but to then say that this where everyone used to stand is totally incorrect. Myself and others have pointed out that we have played with people of a similar generation/age who don't follow this universally accepted practice but SILH, DfT and others seem to conveniently ignore these posts, probably because this evidence doesn't back up their argument.


----------



## ger147 (Jan 10, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Was chatting to my MiL about this subject, a lady who took up this great game nearly 60 years ago, and one of the first things she was taught was to "Stand over there ( as in the video ) and never never stand behind the player teeing off "
This game is a changing for sure .
		
Click to expand...

Surely the first thing a lady taking up Golf 60 years ago would have been taught was "this is the bar Dear, Gentlemen only."


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 10, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			But isn't that the reason that this thread has gone on for over 700 posts? The assertion that in front facing the player is the traditional place to stand/based on historical best practice/HNSP or whatever else you wish to call it. I don't argue that it is where SILH was told to stand but to then say that this where everyone used to stand is totally incorrect. Myself and others have pointed out that we have played with people of a similar generation/age who don't follow this universally accepted practice but SILH, DfT and others seem to conveniently ignore these posts, probably because this evidence doesn't back up their argument.
		
Click to expand...

On the Professional tours on virtually every tee you see the players and caddies standing in the "traditional " place why do you suppose that is?


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 10, 2014)

ger147 said:



			Surely the first thing a lady taking up Golf 60 years ago would have been taught was "this is the bar Dear, Gentlemen only."
		
Click to expand...


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 10, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			On the Professional tours on virtually every tee you see the players and caddies standing in the "traditional " place why do you suppose that is?
		
Click to expand...

I'll be completely honest, I've never noticed them all traipse to the other side of the tee box when a left hooker tees up though..


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 10, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			On the Professional tours on virtually every tee you see the players and caddies standing in the "traditional " place why do you suppose that is?
		
Click to expand...

Normally I see them standing towards the back corner of the teeing ground not standing directly facing and opposite the player hitting. And I certainly haven't seen them all shuffle across to the other side of the tee if a leftie is hitting. I'm sure that someone posted some pics earlier in the thread showing pro golfers and their caddies standing in various different positions.


----------



## JamesR (Jan 10, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			But isn't that the reason that this thread has gone on for over 700 posts?
		
Click to expand...

No, it's gone that far because people keep coming back to it, saying essentially the same thing but in slightly different ways, and arguing the same point over & over again.


I tend to stand as SiLH says, not because I think the player on the tee is paranoid that I'm doing something behind his back, or because a Jock told me it's the proper way back in the day, but because I find it easier to see where the ball went. 
But sometimes I stand the other side, I've never felt this to be poor etiquette...and if the player about to drive told me he thought it was poor etiquette I probably would start doing things behind their back.

Golf already has a reputation for being snobby and boring, this sort of stuff justifies that reputation.


----------



## CMAC (Jan 10, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*

ask me if I care?


----------



## Robobum (Jan 10, 2014)

Snelly said:



			That is a contradiction in terms and I disagree.  How anyone can be insulted (a strong term) by the posts in question is beyond me. 

I think SILH has debated this subject quite fairly really.  


All that said, this whole subject is a mountain made from a molehill.  

In summary, based on historical best practice, everyone should really stand where he stated as it was traditionally the right thing to do.  However, it is clear from this thread that this is something that has now in general terms, disappeared from club golf.  If this is the case, I think it is a bit of a shame but no big deal really.  Stand wherever and keep quiet and still seems to be fair enough.   

The disappearance of this quirk though is based on an interesting assumption which is - are the members of this forum deemed to be an accurate representation of the golfing community in the UK.   I would suggest not but that is the subject for a whole new thread.
		
Click to expand...

You had no issue with standing behind, down the line or in fact forward to the left going for another club whilst I teed off @ Hayling. Not changing your tune again are you?


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 10, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			I'll be completely honest, I've never noticed them all traipse to the other side of the tee box when a left hooker tees up though..
		
Click to expand...

Agree common sense prevails.


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 10, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			Normally I see them standing towards the back corner of the teeing ground not standing directly facing and opposite the player hitting. And I certainly haven't seen them all shuffle across to the other side of the tee if a leftie is hitting. I'm sure that someone posted some pics earlier in the thread showing pro golfers and their caddies standing in various different positions.
		
Click to expand...

The question is " why do you think they chose to stand there? "


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 10, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Tiger standing behind Phil
View attachment 8704


Players standing behind Phil
View attachment 8705


Players\Caddies standing both sides of Tiger
View attachment 8706


Of course there are photos of players\caddies standing in other positions but there certainly doesn't seem to be a well known tradition or etiquette.
		
Click to expand...

I knew someone had posted pics. Glad I started at page 1 rather than working backwards through the thread.


----------



## JamesR (Jan 10, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			The question is " why do you think they chose to stand there? "
		
Click to expand...

Willie Park Snr told them to do it back in the day.


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 10, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			I knew someone had posted pics. Glad I started at page 1 rather than working backwards through the thread.
		
Click to expand...

Which is why I said virtually, again the same question and it's an open one to all " why do they choose to stand there ?"


----------



## ger147 (Jan 10, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Which is why I said virtually, again the same question and it's an open one to all " why do they choose to stand there ?"
		
Click to expand...

I don't agree with your assertion that "virtually" all of them do so your question is irrelevant.


----------



## moogie (Jan 10, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*

Option 4
Being quiet
Not shuffling around
Not playing with their phone
Not swinging their club like a band stick
All more important to me


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 10, 2014)

ger147 said:



			I don't agree with your assertion that "virtually" all of them do so your question is irrelevant.
		
Click to expand...

Why's that then ? I assume you watch professional tournaments , certainly seems to me they are on the right hand side virtually all of the time .


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 10, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Which is why I said virtually, again the same question and it's an open one to all " why do they choose to stand there ?"
		
Click to expand...

Those are just three of hundreds or possibly thousands of similar photos so it's not virtually all. I would say they stand there so they don't get hit by the ball and are out of the way.


----------



## ger147 (Jan 10, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Why's that then ? I assume you watch professional tournaments , certainly seems to me they are on the right hand side virtually all of the time .
		
Click to expand...

And it seems to me there are many occasions where they are not, more than enough to make the assertion "virtually" all the time as inaccurate.

And as it is my opinion vs yours, neither of us can prove the other wrong so we should simply agree to disagree and move on.


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 10, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Agree common sense prevails.
		
Click to expand...


Stop being so blinking agreeable...

Oh, and someone slap bones wrists will they...

[video=youtube_share;c_05nnKuNoE]http://youtu.be/c_05nnKuNoE[/video]


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 10, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			Those are just three of hundreds or possibly thousands of similar photos so it's not virtually all. I would say they stand there so they don't get hit by the ball and are out of the way.
		
Click to expand...

:thup:


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 10, 2014)

ger147 said:



			And it seems to me there are many occasions where they are not, more than enough to make the assertion "virtually" all the time as inaccurate.

And as it is my opinion vs yours, neither of us can prove the other wrong so we should simply agree to disagree and move on.
		
Click to expand...

That's a very defeatist attitude get. You could spend the next 6 hours going through Google and put together a collage of 100's of photos proving your point that it isn't virtually all. Go on, go for it.


----------



## Snelly (Jan 10, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			But isn't that the reason that this thread has gone on for over 700 posts? The assertion that in front facing the player is the traditional place to stand/based on historical best practice/HNSP or whatever else you wish to call it. I don't argue that it is where SILH was told to stand but to then say that this where everyone used to stand is totally incorrect. Myself and others have pointed out that we have played with people of a similar generation/age who don't follow this universally accepted practice but SILH, DfT and others seem to conveniently ignore these posts, probably because this evidence doesn't back up their argument.
		
Click to expand...

You have taken one sentence from my post and ignored the rest which conveniently fits your reply. 

That aside, the assertion is correct.  Standing in this place on the tee was a *broadly accepted maxim *over 30 years ago when I was taught to play. Everyone I play golf with knows this.  Everyone at my club when I was a kid knew this. It was a universal truth. 


I am not ignoring your view.  I just know that you are wrong.   Everyone disagreeing with this is wrong to a greater or lesser extent. 

This frankly ridiculous thread can now be summarised as people that KNEW a thing for a fact 30 odd years ago because they experienced it first hand are being belittled and derided by another section of the forum membership who don't know said thing because they haven't heard of it, and consequently believe it must be codswallop, a view given credence by the apparent majority opinion on the subject. 

It is not.   And just because you have texted your Great Aunt Fanny and she can't remember it either is neither here nor there. 


This thread is a vocal majority arguing around semantics and slating a minority who are in broad terms, quite correct.  *How *some of the things have been said on this thread (as Bobmac sagaciously pointed out earlier) are the cause of the problem, rather than *what *has been posted. 

And all for what?  A petty issue about something that in the grand scheme of things, really doesn't matter....


I would also add that we (or at least I am) are referencing something from a time when golf was quite different in members clubs with far fewer members so less anecdotal evidence on hand, far more rules, more rigorous adherence to convention and consequently an average golf club in England was a much more formal environment.  All relevant as a backdrop to this debate in my view.


----------



## Robobum (Jan 10, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Stop being so blinking agreeable...

Oh, and someone slap bones wrists will they...

[video=youtube_share;c_05nnKuNoE]http://youtu.be/c_05nnKuNoE[/video]
		
Click to expand...

Convention breaking, upstart, new to the game no doubt. Incorrect generation to know better.

I'd hope that puts a cap on this and we all continue to stand where it's safe for everyone.


----------



## ger147 (Jan 10, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			That's a very defeatist attitude get. You could spend the next 6 hours going through Google and put together a collage of 100's of photos proving your point that it isn't virtually all. Go on, go for it. 

Click to expand...

I'll leave that nonsense, ahem I mean research to others.

I have golf clubs & shoes to clean as it's the weekend tomorrow and neither of the two courses at my club are flooded. :fore:


----------



## Allanxyz (Jan 10, 2014)

Snelly said:



			This thread is a vocal majority arguing around semantics and slating a minority who are in broad terms, quite correct.  *How *some of the things have been said on this thread (as Bobmac sagaciously pointed out earlier) are the cause of the problem, rather than *what *has been posted. 

And all for what?  A petty issue about something that in the grand scheme of things, really doesn't matter....
		
Click to expand...

This is broadly a golf forum, if you were expecting issues of world peace and global economics to be discussed then I'm afraid you'll be disappointed fairly often. Most things here are petty and don't matter in the grand scheme of things.

One question, do you also skip across to the other side of the tee when a left hander comes on or if the path happens to be on the left of teeing ground? From a previous post of someone who's played with you it would appear not...


----------



## Snelly (Jan 10, 2014)

Allanxyz said:



			This is broadly a golf forum, if you were expecting issues of world peace and global economics to be discussed then I'm afraid you'll be disappointed fairly often. Most things here are petty and don't matter in the grand scheme of things.

One question, do you also skip across to the other side of the tee when a left hander comes on or if the path happens to be on the left of teeing ground? From a previous post of someone who's played with you it would appear not...
		
Click to expand...

Generally yes I do although I tend not to skip. And I also try an avoid left handed players full stop as they are inconvenient and there is generally something funny about them.

That said, I am not in truth, a stickler for standing in the spot in question.  If I am first on the tee I will always stand there but if I don't venture on to the tee at all until it is my shot then I obviously will not. 


Lastly, when I said it was petty, I meant relative to the world of golf rather than to global events.  (I was tempted to use the roll eyes smiley then but won't as whenever I see that on this forum, I get an urge to punch the user of this smiley in the face very hard. Cue use of smiley whenever anyone responds to me in future I suppose.)


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 10, 2014)

Well it was 77 yrs between Perry winning Wimbedon and Murray winning it - and he won it on 7/7 - so maybe on page 77 this *will* be my last post on the matter.  I totally agree with @snelly by the way and my practice is actually just as his,


----------



## richart (Jan 10, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well it was 77 yrs between Perry winning Wimbedon and Murray winning it - and he won it on 7/7 - so maybe on page 77 this *will* be my last post on the matter.  I totally agree with @snelly by the way and my practice is actually just as his,
		
Click to expand...

 This only page 26.:ears: Go on reply you know you want to.


----------



## Robobum (Jan 10, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well it was 77 yrs between Perry winning Wimbedon and Murray winning it - and he won it on 7/7 - so maybe on page 77 this *will* be my last post on the matter.  I totally agree with @snelly by the way and my practice is actually just as his,
		
Click to expand...

That you believe in a convention but ignore it and stand where ever you like as long as its safe.

Good, everyone is back in the room.

Play on gentlemen


----------



## CMAC (Jan 10, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well it was 77 yrs between Perry winning Wimbedon and Murray winning it - and he won it on 7/7 - so maybe on page 77 this *will* be my last post on the matter.  I totally agree with @snelly by the way and my practice is actually just as his,
		
Click to expand...

there was lots of others agreed with you  wish there was a HUGE rolls eyes smiley ideally covered in tomato sauce :rofl:


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 10, 2014)

Snelly said:



			You have taken one sentence from my post and ignored the rest which conveniently fits your reply. 

That aside, the assertion is correct.  Standing in this place on the tee was a *broadly accepted maxim *over 30 years ago when I was taught to play. Everyone I play golf with knows this.  Everyone at my club when I was a kid knew this. It was a universal truth. 


I am not ignoring your view.  I just know that you are wrong.   Everyone disagreeing with this is wrong to a greater or lesser extent. 

This frankly ridiculous thread can now be summarised as people that KNEW a thing for a fact 30 odd years ago because they experienced it first hand are being belittled and derided by another section of the forum membership who don't know said thing because they haven't heard of it, and consequently believe it must be codswallop, a view given credence by the apparent majority opinion on the subject. 

It is not.   And just because you have texted your Great Aunt Fanny and she can't remember it either is neither here nor there. 


This thread is a vocal majority arguing around semantics and slating a minority who are in broad terms, quite correct.  *How *some of the things have been said on this thread (as Bobmac sagaciously pointed out earlier) are the cause of the problem, rather than *what *has been posted. 

And all for what?  A petty issue about something that in the grand scheme of things, really doesn't matter....


I would also add that we (or at least I am) are referencing something from a time when golf was quite different in members clubs with far fewer members so less anecdotal evidence on hand, far more rules, more rigorous adherence to convention and consequently an average golf club in England was a much more formal environment.  All relevant as a backdrop to this debate in my view.
		
Click to expand...

What if the way that you, SILH and DfT were taught was incorrect? You seem to assume that anyone that doesn't know this is a newcomer to the game and is unaware of how things were. I first played 32 years ago and I am sure many of the other people on here disagreeing with your point of view also learned that long ago or even longer. If I and plenty of others weren't told this back then maybe it was the way you were taught that was incorrect. We experienced a different view on the etiquette of where to stand 30 odd years ago. In fact when I first went onto the course at the age of 5, to walk round and observe how the game was played before I was even allowed out with a club in my hands, with some of the senior members of the club I was going to join I was told to stand behind the ball (as in opposite the direction the player was going to hit it), not close to the player, not directly behind them (down the line of the ball) and to stand still and be quiet. 

So from the above my opinion is that the "universally accepted" etiquette is to stand well away from the player hitting, in an area where you won't get hit by the ball, not directly behind the line of the ball and to stand still and quiet. And just because you keep saying that we are wrong doesn't make it any more true. It might be true that you were taught that but all it means is that at the club you learned at it was accepted. At the clubs I and by the looks of it many others learned at there was a different view.


----------



## Fish (Jan 10, 2014)

Just returned from my 18 Friday afternoon sweep and I made a concious effort to stand facing but behind the player teeing off.  On 12 holes it was totally impossible, I would have been in danger of oncoming balls from neighbouring approach shots, down embankments, in trees or indeed bushes.  On 1 hole it was possible but very awkward and when I walked over to that area, I was glared at as if to say, 'where the frig are you going!' so, on only 5 holes it was comfortably possibly!!

There are also paths beside some tees that you approach which everyone stays on so you are effectively behind the player (his back) and then you walk onto the tee, again if I walked over to the other side just to face him, I was looked upon as if I had grown 2 heads! 

I played with 3 players  of which 1 was a Cat1 and ex club champion, 1 committee member and another long serving member who between them they had been at the club over 100 years, but it would seem they never knew there was a convention as to where to stand.

So, in conclusion, are clubs at fault for not allowing enough space and area on and around tee blocks to abide with this 'long established', 'universally accepted', 'convention' of where to stand in line with the 'etiquette of golf' because my club is obviously in clear breech of it as it only offers a 28% opportunity to stand in 'your correct position'?


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 10, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			What if the way that you, SILH and DfT were taught was incorrect? You seem to assume that anyone that doesn't know this is a newcomer to the game and is unaware of how things were. I first played 32 years ago and I am sure many of the other people on here disagreeing with your point of view also learned that long ago or even longer. If I and plenty of others weren't told this back then maybe it was the way you were taught that was incorrect. We experienced a different view on the etiquette of where to stand 30 odd years ago. In fact when I first went onto the course at the age of 5, to walk round and observe how the game was played before I was even allowed out with a club in my hands, with some of the senior members of the club I was going to join I was told to stand behind the ball (as in opposite the direction the player was going to hit it), not close to the player, not directly behind them (down the line of the ball) and to stand still and be quiet. 

So from the above my opinion is that the "universally accepted" etiquette is to stand well away from the player hitting, in an area where you won't get hit by the ball, not directly behind the line of the ball and to stand still and quiet. And just because you keep saying that we are wrong doesn't make it any more true. It might be true that you were taught that but all it means is that at the club you learned at it was accepted. At the clubs I and by the looks of it many others learned at there was a different view.
		
Click to expand...

That is certainly a possiblity.

On doing some research into why caddies go to the right hand side of a tee i did a google search.
On the first page there are links to manuals on how to be a caddy and your responsibilities etc etc . As to where to stand on the tee , the right hand side is generally favoured . That to me suggests some sort of historical significance.
And this link from 1921 http://gsr.lib.msu.edu/1920s/1921/2112246.pdf makes interesting reading


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 10, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			That is certainly a possiblity.

On doing some research into why caddies go to the right hand side of a tee i did a google search.
On the first page there are links to manuals on how to be a caddy and your responsibilities etc etc . As to where to stand on the tee , the right hand side is generally favoured . That to me suggests some sort of historical significance.
And this link from 1921 http://gsr.lib.msu.edu/1920s/1921/2112246.pdf makes interesting reading
		
Click to expand...

A very interesting article - I particularly enjoyed the section headed 'Position of Tee-Box'


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 10, 2014)

Fish said:



			Just returned from my 18 Friday afternoon sweep and I made a concious effort to stand facing but behind the player teeing off.  On 12 holes it was totally impossible, I would have been in danger of oncoming balls from neighbouring approach shots, down embankments, in trees or indeed bushes.  On 1 hole it was possible but very awkward and when I walked over to that area, I was glared at as if to say, 'where the frig are you going!' so, on only 5 holes it was comfortably possibly!!

There are also paths beside some tees that you approach which everyone stays on so you are effectively behind the player (his back) and then you walk onto the tee, again if I walked over to the other side just to face him, I was looked upon as if I had grown 2 heads! 

I played with 3 players  of which 1 was a Cat1 and ex club champion, 1 committee member and another long serving member who between them they had been at the club over 100 years, but it would seem they never knew there was a convention as to where to stand.

So, in conclusion, are clubs at fault for not allowing enough space and area on and around tee blocks to abide with this 'long established', 'universally accepted', 'convention' of where to stand in line with the 'etiquette of golf' because my club is obviously in clear breech of it as it only offers a 28% opportunity to stand in 'your correct position'?
		
Click to expand...

 think I mentioned lack of space 600 posts ago


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 10, 2014)

Snelly said:



			You have taken one sentence from my post and ignored the rest which conveniently fits your reply. 

That aside, the assertion is correct.  Standing in this place on the tee was a *broadly accepted maxim *over 30 years ago when I was taught to play. Everyone I play golf with knows this.  Everyone at my club when I was a kid knew this. It was a universal truth. 


I am not ignoring your view.  I just know that you are wrong.   Everyone disagreeing with this is wrong to a greater or lesser extent. 

This frankly ridiculous thread can now be summarised as people that KNEW a thing for a fact 30 odd years ago because they experienced it first hand are being belittled and derided by another section of the forum membership who don't know said thing because they haven't heard of it, and consequently believe it must be codswallop, a view given credence by the apparent majority opinion on the subject. 

It is not.   And just because you have texted your Great Aunt Fanny and she can't remember it either is neither here nor there. 


This thread is a vocal majority arguing around semantics and slating a minority who are in broad terms, quite correct.  *How *some of the things have been said on this thread (as Bobmac sagaciously pointed out earlier) are the cause of the problem, rather than *what *has been posted. 

And all for what?  A petty issue about something that in the grand scheme of things, really doesn't matter....


I would also add that we (or at least I am) are referencing something from a time when golf was quite different in members clubs with far fewer members so less anecdotal evidence on hand, far more rules, more rigorous adherence to convention and consequently an average golf club in England was a much more formal environment.  All relevant as a backdrop to this debate in my view.
		
Click to expand...

I'm still learning at my age,WTF  is the BAM position


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 10, 2014)

Snelly said:



			You have taken one sentence from my post and ignored the rest which conveniently fits your reply. 

That aside, the assertion is correct.  Standing in this place on the tee was a *broadly accepted maxim *over 30 years ago when I was taught to play. Everyone I play golf with knows this.  Everyone at my club when I was a kid knew this. It was a universal truth. 


I am not ignoring your view.  I just know that you are wrong.   Everyone disagreeing with this is wrong to a greater or lesser extent. 

This frankly ridiculous thread can now be summarised as people that KNEW a thing for a fact 30 odd years ago because they experienced it first hand are being belittled and derided by another section of the forum membership who don't know said thing because they haven't heard of it, and consequently believe it must be codswallop, a view given credence by the apparent majority opinion on the subject. 

It is not.   And just because you have texted your Great Aunt Fanny and she can't remember it either is neither here nor there. 


*This thread is a vocal majority arguing around semantics and slating a minority who are in broad terms, quite correct.  How some of the things have been said on this thread (as Bobmac sagaciously pointed out earlier) are the cause of the problem, rather than what has been posted. 
*
And all for what?  A petty issue about something that in the grand scheme of things, really doesn't matter....


I would also add that we (or at least I am) are referencing something from a time when golf was quite different in members clubs with far fewer members so less anecdotal evidence on hand, far more rules, more rigorous adherence to convention and consequently an average golf club in England was a much more formal environment.  All relevant as a backdrop to this debate in my view.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, I pointed that out about 300 posts ago


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 10, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*

Stand out of my eyeline but anywhere you like. Keep still and keep quiet. Not rocket science is it and hardly worthy of the dross on the other thread


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 10, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			That is certainly a possiblity.

On doing some research into why caddies go to the right hand side of a tee i did a google search.
On the first page there are links to manuals on how to be a caddy and your responsibilities etc etc . As to where to stand on the tee , the right hand side is generally favoured . That to me suggests some sort of historical significance.
And this link from 1921 http://gsr.lib.msu.edu/1920s/1921/2112246.pdf makes interesting reading
		
Click to expand...

Anyone else read this yet? - I'd be interested in thoughts on what is discussed in the 'Position of Tee-Box' section


----------



## SocketRocket (Jan 10, 2014)

Just to add a little impetus to a dwindling thread:   Where do you stand when the Captain pushes through on the first tee?


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 10, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Just to add a little impetus to a dwindling thread:   Where do you stand when the Captain pushes through on the first tee?
		
Click to expand...

At attentshun- sir.


----------



## SocketRocket (Jan 10, 2014)

williamalex1 said:



			At attentshun- sir.
		
Click to expand...

Stupid Boy Pike!


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 10, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Stupid Boy Pike!
		
Click to expand...

Mind your Manerings private.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 10, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Just to add a little impetus to a dwindling thread:   Where do you stand when the Captain pushes through on the first tee?
		
Click to expand...

Aside...


----------



## SocketRocket (Jan 10, 2014)

williamalex1 said:



			Mind your Manerings private.
		
Click to expand...

It's Mainwarings. Stupid Boy!


----------



## SocketRocket (Jan 10, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Aside...
		
Click to expand...

No!  In the Historically  Recognised Grovelling Position  (HRGP)


----------



## Slime (Jan 10, 2014)

I don't care where my PP stands so long as he doesn't move and shuts the hell up!
Ideally he'd be somewhere down the middle of the fairway because not only will he not put me off but he'd also be in a very safe spot!
My brother always wants players to stand in front of him, I have no problem with that ................. why would I?
If it means moving a few feet to please a PP I don't have an issue with that at all.

*Slime*.


----------



## Crow (Jan 10, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*

Over 50 posts and I'm the only one who has voted for in front of me?

I bet if the legendary thread hadn't been rolling then there'd be plenty more.

I've never really thought about it before but in front is definitely the most sensible place.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 10, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



CMAC said:



			ask me if I care? 

Click to expand...

Go on then, do you care?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 10, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



john0 said:



			SILH is now creating numberous email accounts in order to setup new usernames so he can have more than one vote
		
Click to expand...

LOL


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 10, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			No!  In the Historically  Recognised Grovelling Position  (HRGP)
		
Click to expand...

That would be behind the Captain's back and on your knees then...no thanks.


----------



## SocketRocket (Jan 11, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			That would be behind the Captain's back and on your knees then...no thanks.
		
Click to expand...

AG sell a nice line in knee Grovelling pads.


----------



## Allanxyz (Jan 11, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Anyone else read this yet? - I'd be interested in thoughts on what is discussed in the 'Position of Tee-Box' section
		
Click to expand...

Definitely an interesting piece, but one which most golf clubs themselves seem to ignore. There is space to the right of the tee on about 60% of the holes at my course... This is where the path is, where I leave my bag and therefore where I stand. When the path is on the left hand side I do the same. I guess you know this though as I've mentioned it enough times. 

I'm not sure how he can ascertain that "Almost all golfers" get fidgety when players stand behind them or on the line. Like I said before, so far it would seem that the opinion here (and from the R&A) is that behind the back is ok, and down the line only for ball spotting reasons, when it is the only place to stand or you are far enough back...

I guess this is the crux, as Snelly suggested (I think), maybe the people here aren't representative of the wider golfing world, but the evidence I have says people don't mind as I don't see people moving to the other side of the tee box when the path is on the left...and I agree with Hawkeye that it would be more likely to make me feel uncomfortable if they switched over. As someone mentioned a couple of pages ago (sorry, don't remember who) they tried this out on the course and got a lot of mystified looks.

this piece maybe backs up the thought that it is the "ideal" when building a golf course to have the path on the right, which actually I agree with. However I'd say it doesn't really matter and wouldn't expect a golf course to spend thousands trying to keep to this ideal.


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 11, 2014)

"maybe the people here aren't representative of the wider golfing world"


I can't for the life of me think why this would be the case!


----------



## Robobum (Jan 11, 2014)

I'd argue that this very representative of the wider golfing world.

Even if 50 people have contributed here, how many non forummers have they played with? Then how many will those people have played with etc etc. 

Also, the contributors cover the whole country and beyond, contributions by new golfers and experienced. Hi and low h'caps. Young and old. It's pretty diversified both directly and indirectly by association with non forum players.


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 11, 2014)

wider golfing world?   does that mean our burger munching brothers across the pond?


----------



## Robobum (Jan 11, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			wider golfing world?   does that mean our burger munching brothers across the pond?  

Click to expand...

After Xmas, can't say I can exclude myself


----------



## john0 (Jan 11, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			wider golfing world?   does that mean our burger munching brothers across the pond?  

Click to expand...

Yes it includes the irish also


----------



## chrisd (Jan 11, 2014)

I did play once with a much loathed member at my club who was ultra bossy. He decided that everywhere I stood required a "please will you move" after a couple of requests and a few choice words he didn't ask again, one of the reasons was that I, along with most of the club wouldn't and still won't, play with him.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*

I think we now have definite proof that this forum is not a representation of UK club golfers.


----------



## john0 (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



Doon frae Troon said:



			I think we now have definite proof that this forum is not a representation of UK club golfers.
		
Click to expand...

Do you mean that they just don't agree with you?


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



john0 said:



			Do you mean that they just don't agree with you?
		
Click to expand...

Not at all


----------



## CMAC (Jan 11, 2014)

can someone who is a member of another golf forum copy 'n' paste the OP and post on another forum? would be interesting to see if it gets 18,200+ views and nearly 800 replies.
Or will they be sensible and sort it out in 5 replies like common sense normal people :whoo:


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 11, 2014)

CMAC said:



			can someone who is a member of another golf forum copy 'n' paste the OP and post on another forum? would be interesting to see if it gets 18,200+ views and nearly 800 replies.
Or will they be sensible and sort it out in 5 replies like common sense normal people :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

Thinking about this thread makes me wonder if I've stumbled upon the set of "Idiocracy".


----------



## delc (Jan 11, 2014)

I can't believer this thread is still going!

From the R&A website on Etiquette - Consideration for other players:

No Disturbance or Distraction

You should always show consideration for other players on the course and take care not to not disturb their play by moving, talking or making unnecessary noise.

You should also ensure that any electronic devices taken onto the course don't distract other players.

Only tee your ball up when it's your turn to play and remember not to stand close to the ball, directly behind it, or directly behind the hole, when a player is about to swing.

On the Putting Green 
On the putting green, you should be careful not stand on another playerâ€™s line of putt or, when he is putting, cast a shadow over his line.

And you should remain on or close to the putting green until all other players in the group have holed out.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you are a playing partner or a caddie, you should also not stand behind the line of a players swing as this is considered as assistance in Rule 14-2b


----------



## delc (Jan 11, 2014)

chrisd said:



			I did play once with a much loathed member at my club who was ultra bossy. He decided that everywhere I stood required a "please will you move" after a couple of requests and a few choice words he didn't ask again, one of the reasons was that I, along with most of the club wouldn't and still won't, play with him.
		
Click to expand...

We have a Junior at our club who goes ballastic if any other player in the group as much as breathes or bats an eyelid while he is taking his shot! It will be interesting to see how he gets on if he ever makes the European Tour! Could be another Colin Montgomerie!


----------



## CMAC (Jan 11, 2014)

delc said:



			We have a *Junior at our club who goes ballastic if any other player in the group as much as breathes or bats an eyelid while he is taking his shot*! It will be interesting to see how he gets on if he ever makes the European Tour! Could be another Colin Montgomerie!
		
Click to expand...

with that attitude/character fault I sincerely doubt he will make it to these heady heights


----------



## delc (Jan 11, 2014)

CMAC said:



			with that attitude/character fault I sincerely doubt he will make it to these heady heights
		
Click to expand...

Didn't stop Colin M from winning 8 European Order of Merit titles!  :fore:


----------



## Dodger (Jan 11, 2014)

I played this morning.

Stood everywhere,behind,to the side and even in front a couple of times.

Bad,bad man.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 11, 2014)

I played this morning with the intention of standing in the supposed correct place on every hole. I got to the first tee and decided I couldn't be bothered and stood with the rest of my group in the positions we normally stand, no-one was asked to move, that's good enough for me.


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 11, 2014)

I stood at thepodgseters 12 o'clock today and got hit by bits of flying divot.  Maybe these guidelines need revised!


----------



## CMAC (Jan 11, 2014)

delc said:



			Didn't stop Colin M from winning 8 European Order of Merit titles!  :fore:
		
Click to expand...

he doesnt go ballistic 



p.s *this is POST 801 * :whoo:  :rofl:


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



Doon frae Troon said:



			I think we now have definite proof that this forum is not a representation of UK club golfers.
		
Click to expand...


Why exactly is that ?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I played this morning with the intention of standing in the supposed correct place on every hole. I got to the first tee and decided I couldn't be bothered and stood with the rest of my group in the positions we normally stand, no-one was asked to move, that's good enough for me.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly how we were this morning - not one person in our group ever stood in this supposed "correct position"


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*

Because most club golfers will have the good sense to stand in a safe position when someone is driving, not one that will put them in danger.


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Exactly how we were this morning - not one person in our group ever stood in this supposed "correct position"
		
Click to expand...

I stood in the HNSP 8 times yesterday, but only because 8 out of 18 of our tee paths are on that side.

Actually that's a fib. I stood 4 times at the back of the tee as my playing partner was driving into the sun.
Of course I asked him each time was he OK with me standing there, even though I was standing there purely for his benefit.


----------



## BTatHome (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



Doon frae Troon said:



			Because most club golfers will have the good sense to stand in a safe position when someone is driving, not one that will put them in danger.
		
Click to expand...

I didn't see that option listed, and none the options stated that anyone would be in danger.

In fact the only time I've ever seen anyone in danger on the tee was when a ball hit a tree about 20 yards to the left of the tee and rebounded straight back at the tee!


----------



## Imurg (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



Doon frae Troon said:



			Because most club golfers will have the good sense to stand in a safe position when someone is driving, not one that will put them in danger.
		
Click to expand...

As I obviously have no good sense and am therefore an ignorant player, can you please enlighten me as to why standing anywhere behind the tee blocks, at a distance that keeps you out of range of the swinging club, is more or less safe than another...?


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



BTatHome said:



			I didn't see that option listed
		
Click to expand...

Oh deary me what a surprise, as that would support Hogan's and my comments.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



Imurg said:



			As I obviously have no good sense and am therefore an ignorant player, can you please enlighten me as to why standing anywhere behind the tee blocks, at a distance that keeps you out of range of the swinging club, is more or less safe than another...?
		
Click to expand...

Keep up that was mentioned about 400 posts ago.


----------



## Imurg (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*

Sorry must have missed it.....
Save me the trouble of trawling...please..?


----------



## BTatHome (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



Doon frae Troon said:



			Oh deary me what a surprise, as that would support Hogan's and my comments.
		
Click to expand...

Really? Is your opinion that there is ONLY one position to stand that is safe, and all other positions are dangerous?


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



BTatHome said:



			Really? Is your opinion that there is ONLY one position to stand that is safe, and all other positions are dangerous?
		
Click to expand...

Nope wrong again

Hogan said HE always tries to stand there and I said that historically that was where golfers were taught to stand as it was deemed the safest place.

Imurg...clubs slipping out of grips, loose heads, broken shafts.
In the 1960/70's when glue was first used and was nowhere near as good as todays stuff clubheads flying off shafts happened a fair bit
Untreated leather grips were also slippy when dry or wet.


----------



## Dodger (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



Doon frae Troon said:



			Nope wrong again

Hogan said HE always tries to stand there and I said that historically that was where golfers were taught to stand as it was deemed the safest place.

Imurg...clubs slipping out of grips, loose heads, broken shafts.
In the 1960/70's when glue was first used and was nowhere near as good as todays stuff clubheads flying off shafts happened a fair bit
Untreated leather grips were also slippy when dry or wet.
		
Click to expand...

Then surely standing behind the ball looking down the fairway is the safest place to stand.

When clubs slip out of hands or heads come off the only places I have seen them go is either sideways or forwards.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



Doon frae Troon said:



			Because most club golfers will have the good sense to stand in a safe position when someone is driving, not one that will put them in danger.
		
Click to expand...

Most ( if not all ) would - you are correct.

That didn't answer my question though because no has stated they wouldn't stand in a safe place so I'm confused


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



Dodger said:



			Then surely standing behind the ball looking down the fairway is the safest place to stand.

When clubs slip out of hands or heads come off the only places I have seen them go is either sideways or forwards.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but I was not born when these 'traditions' were installed.
Please remember that hickory was the shaft of the day then.


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*

I see.
We should stand face to face with the player because 40 years ago bits flew off golf clubs...

So is the preferred position to shpw respect to driving player or for our own protection?


----------



## Green Bay Hacker (Jan 11, 2014)

After spending the last few days digesting this thread it was finally time to see where we actually stood in the comp today. 3 right handers and a lefty in the group and the preferred positions seemed to be roughly 5  and 7 o'clock. FWIW I have been playing about 10 years and have never heard anyone at the club discuss where to stand on the tee.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*

Initially I would suspect for self preservation and then people got used to it.


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



Doon frae Troon said:



			Initially I would suspect for self preservation and then people got used to it.
		
Click to expand...

Not terribly relevant these days.

I wonder why so many golf courses were designed totally ignoring the requirement to stand this position?


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



Liverpoolphil said:



			Most ( if not all ) would - you are correct.

That didn't answer my question though because no has stated they wouldn't stand in a safe place so I'm confused
		
Click to expand...

Phil...........I think I was the only poster who mentioned safety, most folk were too busy being abusive or trying to make poor jokes.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



North Mimms said:



			Not terribly relevant these days.

I wonder why so many golf courses were designed totally ignoring the requirement to stand this position?
		
Click to expand...

The old courses did as they generally had lots of room. Very few courses have their original tees as committees pushed them further back to accommodate forum hitters.


----------



## CMAC (Jan 11, 2014)

Green Bay Hacker said:



			After spending the last few days digesting this thread it was finally time to see where we actually stood in the comp today. 3 right handers and a lefty in the group and the preferred positions seemed to be roughly 5  and 7 o'clock. FWIW *I have been playing about 10 years and have never heard anyone at the club discuss where to stand on the tee*.
		
Click to expand...

thats because it's common sense and needs no discussion


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 11, 2014)

CMAC said:



			thats because it's common sense and needs no discussion 

Click to expand...

It certainly does need discussion CMAC. 41 pages and 800+ posts worth of discussion (and counting)


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 11, 2014)

I had a short game lesson this morning. We spent the first 15 minutes learning the correct position to observe a FC playing their approach onto the green. This must NEVER be confused as being the same position or angle as the tee shot even when the balls lie in close proximity and attention must be taken of the surrounding lie, and the amount of elevation involved in placing two feet together in apposition to maintain an upright posture.

Only once I had mastered this was I allowed anywhere near a golf ball


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



Doon frae Troon said:



			Phil...........I think I was the only poster who mentioned safety, most folk were too busy being abusive or trying to make poor jokes.
		
Click to expand...

Ok but let's go back to your inital statement - you said that the poll highlights that this forum isn't representive of uk golfers ? Still unsure why when the poll answers highlight every single person I have played golf with in the past 4 years

So why exactly do you think what you suggested ?


----------



## Imurg (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



Doon frae Troon said:



			Imurg...clubs slipping out of grips, loose heads, broken shafts.
In the 1960/70's when glue was first used and was nowhere near as good as todays stuff clubheads flying off shafts happened a fair bit
Untreated leather grips were also slippy when dry or wet.
		
Click to expand...

Are you being serious?
Are you seriously trying to convince me that when clubs break or slip out of hands that they have never flown off in the direction of this "mystical" area in front of and slightly behind the player...?
Is there some magical force field in place that prevents, nay, bans objects flying into it..?

Pure "Conversational Gonads".....

Anywhere behind the ball will afford you equal protection from the one in a million chance...

I bet if you tried 100 times to let a club go and get it to go through the area on the opposite side and I'll be amazed if you manage it.

If this area of whivh you speak arose due to dodgy grips and shafts from years ago then it's not surprising it's not relevent today


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*

Oh strewth


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Exactly how we were this morning - not one person in our group ever stood in this supposed "correct position"
		
Click to expand...

Oh well - given you don't (clearly) maybe that's not surprising.  Just out of interest and as a matter of research - how long have each of you been playing the game (approximately)


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Oh dear - just out of interest and as a matter of research - how long had each of you been playing the game?
		
Click to expand...

One person has been playing the game since a junior since the 50's , another since the early 70's and the other since the 80's.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 11, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I had a short game lesson this morning. We spent the first 15 minutes learning the correct position to observe a FC playing their approach onto the green. This must NEVER be confused as being the same position or angle as the tee shot even when the balls lie in close proximity and attention must be taken of the surrounding lie, and the amount of elevation involved in placing two feet together in apposition to maintain an upright posture.

Only once I had mastered this was I allowed anywhere near a golf ball
		
Click to expand...

Having seen your short game, that was probably for the best


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			One person has been playing the game since a junior since the 50's , another since the early 70's and the other since the 80's.
		
Click to expand...

Ah well - see what happens when you become careless about etiquette - bad habits creep in


----------



## MadAdey (Jan 11, 2014)

was about to read this thread then I saw it had 82 pages...................


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 11, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			was about to read this thread then I saw it had 82 pages...................

Click to expand...

The majority of which are filled with posts that deny, avoid or misunderstand the point of my OP.  Well I would say that wouldn't I...


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



Imurg said:



			Are you being serious?
Are you seriously trying to convince me that when clubs break or slip out of hands that they have never flown off in the direction of this "mystical" area in front of and slightly behind the player...?
Is there some magical force field in place that prevents, nay, bans objects flying into it..?

Pure "Conversational Gonads".....

Anywhere behind the ball will afford you equal protection from the one in a million chance...

I bet if you tried 100 times to let a club go and get it to go through the area on the opposite side and I'll be amazed if you manage it.

If this area of whivh you speak arose due to dodgy grips and shafts from years ago then it's not surprising it's not relevent today
		
Click to expand...

Asked the question last night " Why are caddies trained to stand on the right of the tee block? " Any thoughts Ian ?


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*

Oh for goodness some folk need reading lessons.
The world did not start in 1986.

I'm out of hear.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Ah well - see what happens when you become careless about etiquette - bad habits creep in 

Click to expand...


Every single one of us observed etiquette impeccably with not one single issue

We all stood where everyone was comfortable including the person teeing off - we all made sure that we followed the one area of etiquette that is important - being quiet and still

If you stood directly opposite me on the tee I would ask you to move every single time


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



Doon frae Troon said:



			Oh for goodness some folk need reading lessons.
The world did not start in 1986.

I'm out of hear.
		
Click to expand...

And some need writing/spelling lessons. People in glass houses and all that.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



Doon frae Troon said:



			Oh for goodness some folk need reading lessons.
The world did not start in 1986.

I'm out of hear.
		
Click to expand...

It didn't you're right 

But the world also evolves as each year goes by

Still unsure why this forum isn't representive of uk golfers because of this poll ? Any update on the explanation please


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



upsidedown said:



			Asked the question last night " Why are caddies trained to stand on the right of the tee block? " Any thoughts Ian ?
		
Click to expand...

Are they "trained" to stand there ? Is that a class during "caddy school"


----------



## DAVEYBOY (Jan 11, 2014)

I haven't really added to this thread but I must say every group I saw on the course today where stood behind each other when teeing off. 

Not really added much to help but surely that shows it doesn't really matter to most people


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 11, 2014)

I really wish people would accept that there is NO correct position.

There are wrong positions....


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 11, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Ah well - see what happens when you become careless about etiquette - bad habits creep in 

Click to expand...

Constantly remarking on bad etiquette when there is none, is in itself - bad etiquette


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 11, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			The majority of which are filled with posts that deny, avoid or misunderstand the point of my OP.  Well I would say that wouldn't I...
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Crow (Jan 11, 2014)

820 posts, roll on the summer..... :fore:


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



Liverpoolphil said:



			Are they "trained" to stand there ? Is that a class during "caddy school" 

Click to expand...

Yes they are, http://www.gapgolf.org/pdf/2005_caddie_manual.pdf

RESPONSIBILITIES ON THE TEEING GROUND
A. ON THE FIRST TEE
1. Know what markers your players are playing from in order to give them the proper yardage to each hole. You may
inquire whether any of your players know the golf course from playing before.
2. Place the golf bag, standing upright, *just outside the right hand tee marker.* Never leave a golf bag standing vertically
without holding onto it.

http://www.bngccp.com/uploads/Caddie_Manual.pdf  Top of page 10 ( cant copy and paste it )


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 11, 2014)

Crow said:



			820 posts, roll on the summer..... :fore:
		
Click to expand...

Flooded courses leave a lot of golfers with too much time on their hands!


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 11, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			Flooded courses leave a lot of golfers with too much time on their hands!
		
Click to expand...

And nowhere to stand


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



upsidedown said:



			Yes they are, http://www.gapgolf.org/pdf/2005_caddie_manual.pdf

RESPONSIBILITIES ON THE TEEING GROUND
A. ON THE FIRST TEE
1. Know what markers your players are playing from in order to give them the proper yardage to each hole. You may
inquire whether any of your players know the golf course from playing before.
2. Place the golf bag, standing upright, *just outside the right hand tee marker.* Never leave a golf bag standing vertically
without holding onto it.

http://www.bngccp.com/uploads/Caddie_Manual.pdf  Top of page 10 ( cant copy and paste it )
		
Click to expand...


So anywhere on the right hand side but nowhere specific


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			And nowhere to stand 

Click to expand...

:rofl: 

:thup:


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



upsidedown said:



			Yes they are, http://www.gapgolf.org/pdf/2005_caddie_manual.pdf

RESPONSIBILITIES ON THE TEEING GROUND
A. ON THE FIRST TEE
1. Know what markers your players are playing from in order to give them the proper yardage to each hole. You may
inquire whether any of your players know the golf course from playing before.
2. Place the golf bag, standing upright, *just outside the right hand tee marker.* Never leave a golf bag standing vertically
without holding onto it.

http://www.bngccp.com/uploads/Caddie_Manual.pdf  Top of page 10 ( cant copy and paste it )
		
Click to expand...

So not only do I have to stand in the right place, I have to lie my bag down as well? That's a caddie manual, it isn't the etiquette for us normal golfers


----------



## john0 (Jan 11, 2014)

Do you think it can make1000 posts by midnight?


----------



## Imurg (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



upsidedown said:



			Asked the question last night " Why are caddies trained to stand on the right of the tee block? " Any thoughts Ian ?
		
Click to expand...

Honestly, I don't know or really care.
DfT states that etiquette dictates you stand in this area, let's call it 4 o'clock, as it is"the safest place should a club slip or break"
So there is less chance of a club slipping and hitting you at 4 o'clock than if you're stood at 8 o'clock...?
Really...?
Seriously...?

Caddies may be trained to stand there - if it's down to safety then it's simply not the case.


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 11, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			On doing some research into why caddies go to the right hand side of a tee i did a google search.
On the first page there are links to manuals on how to be a caddy and your responsibilities etc etc . As to where to stand on the tee , the right hand side is generally favoured . That to me suggests some sort of historical significance.
And this link from 1921 http://gsr.lib.msu.edu/1920s/1921/2112246.pdf makes interesting reading
		
Click to expand...

The link above refers to a publication from the US golf association and concerns where to place the sand box for players to use to tee up their balls, days before tees as we know them.Well worth the read.

Is this the historical standing place? Yes I think so given the training that caddies receive these days.



upsidedown said:



			Yes they are, http://www.gapgolf.org/pdf/2005_caddie_manual.pdf

RESPONSIBILITIES ON THE TEEING GROUND
A. ON THE FIRST TEE
1. Know what markers your players are playing from in order to give them the proper yardage to each hole. You may
inquire whether any of your players know the golf course from playing before.
2. Place the golf bag, standing upright, *just outside the right hand tee marker.* Never leave a golf bag standing vertically
without holding onto it.

http://www.bngccp.com/uploads/Caddie_Manual.pdf  Top of page 10 ( cant copy and paste it )
		
Click to expand...


So cutting to the chase I believe this could be where  the perceived " correct place to stand" comes from and why I was taught to stand there as were SILH, Snelly DfT and others.


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*

Do we really need another lengthy thread on this utterly unimportant guff?


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



upsidedown said:



			Yes they are, http://www.gapgolf.org/pdf/2005_caddie_manual.pdf

RESPONSIBILITIES ON THE TEEING GROUND
A. ON THE FIRST TEE
1. Know what markers your players are playing from in order to give them the proper yardage to each hole. You may
inquire whether any of your players know the golf course from playing before.
2. Place the golf bag, standing upright, *just outside the right hand tee marker.* Never leave a golf bag standing vertically
without holding onto it.

http://www.bngccp.com/uploads/Caddie_Manual.pdf  Top of page 10 ( cant copy and paste it )
		
Click to expand...




HawkeyeMS said:



			So not only do I have to stand in the right place, I have to lie my bag down as well? That's a caddie manual, it isn't the etiquette for us normal golfers
		
Click to expand...

I've tried to point out where I'm coming from in another post but fear the heavy cold and tiredness might not have done it any favours, but what I'm getting at is that if it's good enough for professional caddies and professional players to stand there as they see it as the right place, as they are being considerate to their fellow pros, why is it such a hardship to  emulate them.


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



Imurg said:



			Honestly, I don't know or really care.
DfT states that etiquette dictates you stand in this area, let's call it 4 o'clock, as it is"the safest place should a club slip or break"
So there is less chance of a club slipping and hitting you at 4 o'clock than if you're stood at 8 o'clock...?
Really...?
Seriously...?

Caddies may be trained to stand there - if it's down to safety then it's simply not the case.
		
Click to expand...

Trying to get where the historical position to stand which I was taught, came from, this seems to me the most likely as it's being used by professional caddies and players today.


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 11, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			That is certainly a possiblity.

On doing some research into why caddies go to the right hand side of a tee i did a google search.
On the first page there are links to manuals on how to be a caddy and your responsibilities etc etc . As to where to stand on the tee , the right hand side is generally favoured . That to me suggests some sort of historical significance.
And this link from 1921 http://gsr.lib.msu.edu/1920s/1921/2112246.pdf makes interesting reading
		
Click to expand...

Great.

If we are expected to follow guidance from 1921, as a woman I most probably won't be allowed in the Clubhouse.
Neither would my grandfather, who was a Club Professional


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*

Interested as  to why there are obviously two schools of thought on this when up until this thread started I never considered it.


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 11, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			Great.

If we are expected to follow guidance from 1921, as a woman I most probably won't be allowed in the Clubhouse.
Neither would my grandfather, who was a Club Professional
		
Click to expand...

No the game has rightly evolved since then, I'm interested in why there are two schools of thought and trying to find out where it all came from and why some us have been taught it and others not .


----------



## BTatHome (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



upsidedown said:



			Interested as  to why there are obviously two schools of thought on this when up until this thread started I never considered it.
		
Click to expand...

What's more interesting is that there appears to be only a tiny minority that have heard/used this 'historical' stand point.


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



BTatHome said:



			What's more interesting is that there appears to be only a tiny minority that have heard/used this 'historical' stand point.
		
Click to expand...

On here yes but I have posted links to the fact that Arnold Palmer prefers it and I believe the professiona game  adhears to it  most of the time .


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2014)

I think the problem is - one school of thought is saying that everyone is wrong when there is zero rule to back up that theory - that school also has a grand total of 4 people taking lessons 

Then we have the other school which follow the common sense angle and no set definition - that school appears to be everyone else on the forum plus everyone they have ever played with 

Going by the power of numbers it appears that the first school are incorrect to state others are wrong in terms of both rules and etiquette 

It appears that common sense is the winner and not things like "universally accepted position" or "historically natural standing position"

We are all adults and all can place ourselves on the tee both safely and being aware of our FC and being considerate of them and ensuring they are both quiet and still to ensure they don't disturb their FC :thup:


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think the problem is - one school of thought is saying that everyone is wrong when there is zero rule to back up that theory - that school also has a grand total of 4 people taking lessons 

Then we have the other school which follow the common sense angle and no set definition - that school appears to be everyone else on the forum plus everyone they have ever played with 

Going by the power of numbers it appears that the first school are incorrect to state others are wrong in terms of both rules and etiquette 

It appears that common sense is the winner and not things like "universally accepted position" or "historically natural standing position"

We are all adults and all can place ourselves on the tee both safely and being aware of our FC and being considerate of them and ensuring they are both quiet and still to ensure they don't disturb their FC :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Excellent post Phil, but I was taught that is was frowned upon not to go the right hand side of the tee and it has been a shock to learn that not everyone does/was taught this.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2014)

And I was taught just be quiet and still on the tee with no set place :thup:

Neither us are wrong


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 11, 2014)

Quite and still is a winner every time :thup:


----------



## chris661 (Jan 11, 2014)

john0 said:



			Do you think it can make1000 posts by midnight?
		
Click to expand...

I can guarantee it won't. 

Is it time for this to be put to bed? Or keep this thread just for folk to wander in and argue and moan which will mean the rest of the forum should be clear of it :whoo:


----------



## chris661 (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Where Playing Partners Stand when I tee off POLL*



stevie_r said:



			Do we really need another lengthy thread on this utterly unimportant guff?
		
Click to expand...

No. 

This is locked, argue the toss on the other thread please. 

Ta.


----------



## Dodger (Jan 11, 2014)

chris661 said:



			I can guarantee it won't. 

Is it time for this to be put to bed? Or keep this thread just for folk to wander in and argue and moan which will mean the rest of the forum should be clear of it :whoo:
		
Click to expand...


Well it wouldn't be like you to shut a thread simply for the sake of it...


----------



## chris661 (Jan 11, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Well it wouldn't be like you to shut a thread simply for the sake of it...
		
Click to expand...

 build a wall dodger.


----------



## Green Bay Hacker (Jan 11, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Excellent post Phil, but I was taught that is was frowned upon not to go the right hand side of the tee and it has been a shock to learn that not everyone does/was taught this.
		
Click to expand...

Out of interest, when you have played at away courses have you noticed where other competitors or PP have stood?


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 11, 2014)

chris661 said:



			I can guarantee it won't. 

Is it time for this to be put to bed? Or keep this thread just for folk to wander in and argue and moan which will mean the rest of the forum should be clear of it :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

I understand why you wanted discussion all on one thread butbitnwas a shame to have closed a useful poll


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2014)

Agree the poll was useful 

Is it possible to merge the two threads ?


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Jan 11, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			I understand why you wanted discussion all on one thread butbitnwas a shame to have closed a useful poll
		
Click to expand...

The other option would be to merge both threads, but that might totally confuse things

the poll started as a poll, but then started discussing the same things as on the main thread, so we ended up with 2 threads on the same subject

Hope that explains the thinking (yes it was thought about) behind it


----------



## chris661 (Jan 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Agree the poll was useful 

Is it possible to merge the two threads ?
		
Click to expand...

Dunno but I will stick a poll on this thread instead.


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Jan 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Agree the poll was useful 

Is it possible to merge the two threads ?
		
Click to expand...


Yes if the consensus is to merge , it can be done

views people please


----------



## chris661 (Jan 11, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Yes if the consensus is to merge , it can be done

views people please
		
Click to expand...

Problem with merging is the posts on the other thread will get lost, would be easier to just stick a new poll on here.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2014)

I vote for a merge as opposed to just adding a new poll :thup:


----------



## chris661 (Jan 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I vote for a merge as opposed to just adding a new poll :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Doh. Just added the poll.


----------



## john0 (Jan 11, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			The other option would be to merge both threads, but that might totally confuse things

the poll started as a poll, but then started discussing the same things as on the main thread, so we ended up with 2 threads on the same subject

Hope that explains the thinking (yes it was thought about) behind it
		
Click to expand...

Well we often have multiple threads on best ball to use in winter, forum driving distances etc but you don't close them threads. Some consistency is needed I think


----------



## Twire (Jan 11, 2014)

We could lose the duplicate (discussion) posts on the poll thread, then unlock it.


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 11, 2014)

I reckon this will reach the magic 1000 you know.


----------



## chris661 (Jan 11, 2014)

Right after all that faffing about they are merged and the "old" poll is on here.

And that ends my meaningful contribution to this thread :lol:


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 11, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Excellent post Phil, but I was taught that is was frowned upon not to go the right hand side of the tee and it has been a shock to learn that not everyone does/was taught this.
		
Click to expand...

So everyone you have ever played with has always gone to stand to face player on tee, even when approach path is on opposite side?


----------



## chris661 (Jan 11, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			I reckon this will reach the magic 1000 you know.
		
Click to expand...

Easily


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Right after all that faffing about they are merged and the "old" poll is on here.

And that ends my meaningful contribution to this thread :lol:
		
Click to expand...

Looks good :thup:

The good news is that common sense is still winning the battle


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 11, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Right after all that faffing about they are merged and the "old" poll is on here.

And that ends my meaningful contribution to this thread :lol:
		
Click to expand...

Clever Chris.
And the magic 1000 posts gets closer!


----------



## john0 (Jan 11, 2014)

I think that whoever makes the 1000th post should have to play a fourball with SILH, DfT & Snelly


----------



## chris661 (Jan 11, 2014)

john0 said:



			I think that whoever makes the 1000th post should have to play a fourball with SILH, DfT & Snelly
		
Click to expand...

Oooft. Why such a serious punishment


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2014)

john0 said:



			I think that whoever makes the 1000th post should have to play a fourball with SILH, DfT & Snelly
		
Click to expand...

Close the thread NOW !!!!


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 11, 2014)

john0 said:



			I think that whoever makes the 1000th post should have to play a fourball with SILH, DfT & Snelly
		
Click to expand...

Wow, dream 4ball or what!


----------



## john0 (Jan 11, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Oooft. Why such a serious punishment 

Click to expand...

Would make a good feature for the mag. Hopefully the winner will be left handed so that the other 3 have to keep shuffling back and for across the tee box


----------



## john0 (Jan 11, 2014)

Can be GM's version of Russian roulette


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 11, 2014)

john0 said:



			Would make a good feature for the mag. Hopefully the winner will be left handed so that the other 3 have to keep shuffling back and for across the tee box
		
Click to expand...

*books How to play as a Lefty lesson*


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 11, 2014)

john0 said:



			I think that whoever makes the 1000th post should have to play a fourball with SILH, DfT & Snelly
		
Click to expand...

You'd get a lesser punishment for murder!


----------



## Pistol Peter (Jan 11, 2014)

I must say after reading a lot of this and talking to a few golfers today ( low Cat 1 golfers ) then I needed to agree with SILH and the others and it's clear that most of the posters on here don't know much about etiquette.

Also must add the poll question is wrong, I would not say in front off you but opposite you as in front of you would be ahead of you and you would then be in danger of getting hit.


----------



## john0 (Jan 11, 2014)

Pistol Peter said:



			I must say after reading a lot of this and talking to a few golfers today ( low Cat 1 golfers ) then I needed to agree with SILH and the others and it's clear that most of the posters on here don't know much about etiquette.
		
Click to expand...

Is that you DfT? You got yourself a new account?


----------



## SocketRocket (Jan 11, 2014)

Maybe the breakdown in 'traditional standing position' has crept in since Artisan types have been allowed to infiltrate members Clubs. It's probably related in some way to denim trousers and shirts outside trousers!


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 11, 2014)

john0 said:



			I think that whoever makes the 1000th post should have to play a fourball with SILH, DfT & Snelly
		
Click to expand...

I'll go for that. Could have loads of fun standing in the "wrong" place while they all tee off, while looking at my GPS device and whistling loudly.


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 11, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Maybe the breakdown in 'traditional standing position' has crept in since Artisan types have been allowed to infiltrate members Clubs. It's probably related in some way to denim trousers and shirts outside trousers!
		
Click to expand...

Or perhaps since they stopped those daft frilly flappy things on the front of golf shoes.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jan 11, 2014)

I blame the architects personally, for building courses where the tee boxes mean you can't possibly comply with this rule of etiquette.  I will be insisting tomorrow via the suggestions book that the club address this glaring defect in the course immediately or I might have to consider resigning my membership.


----------



## Phil2511 (Jan 11, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I'll open a new post if I may as I was not able to make a simple point on this matter before the thread was closed.  

I was taught from a young age by some gnarled old Glasgow muni golfers that it is best and good etiquette to stand facing a player teeing off.  And so that is what I do when others are teeing off - unless they ask me to move of course.  And for *me* I like the same.  I won't always ask a player to move if they are standing behind me - though I might feel a little uncomfortable as I can't see what they are up to or maybe about to do (that might cause me a distraction mid-swing).  But I really don't like someone standing a the back of the tee looking down the fairway as I am about to tee off.  Maybe that's just me.  They are in my peripheral vision - I don't want them there, and so I *will* usually ask them to move.  

All the subsequent discussion about what pros put up with when teeing off on the other thread was 'besides the point' as far as my post that seemed to kick it off was concerned.

If you think you can stand wherever you want in vicinity to me when I am playing then that is entirely up to you - but be aware that I will ask you to move if I don;t like where you stand and will be well p*****d off with you if you don't.  Basic golfing etiquette and respect for your fellow golfers.

Mods - you can now close this if you wish now that I have clarified my statement.

Ta
		
Click to expand...

If you stood in front of me youd be told to shift, you have [plenty of places to stand without trying to create distractions, if you wanted me to stand in front of you that would be your choice but its viewed as extremely bad etiquette to do so by myself and EVERYONE i have ever played with.

And my dad played for over 30 years and is dead 11 years this May and was a Council member at the club for over 10 years, a club that had an extremely long waiting list back then too. 

Out of peripheral vision and quiet as soon as I put the tee into the ground is the most important for everyone i know.


----------



## SocketRocket (Jan 12, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			Or perhaps since they stopped those daft frilly flappy things on the front of golf shoes.
		
Click to expand...

Daft!!


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I vote for a merge as opposed to just adding a new poll :thup:
		
Click to expand...

I'm not too sure where I stand on that either.


----------



## CMAC (Jan 12, 2014)

Pistol Peter said:



*I must say after reading a lot of this and talking to a few golfers today ( low Cat 1 golfers ) then I needed to agree with SILH and the others and it's clear that most of the posters on here don't know much about etiquette.*

Also must add the poll question is wrong, I would not say in front off you but opposite you as in front of you would be ahead of you and you would then be in danger of getting hit.
		
Click to expand...

why? did the cat1 players all say keep still and quiet and ideally opposite the player irrespective of where the path is, their bags, the last green, the physical parameters of the tee?

That, and your next para is being deliberately obtuse imo


----------



## delc (Jan 12, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			Or perhaps since they stopped those daft frilly flappy things on the front of golf shoes.
		
Click to expand...

At least those daft frilly flappy things kept the water out of your shoes. My current shoes are quite water resistant, but they seem to let water in through the lace holes when it's very wet.


----------



## thepodgster (Jan 12, 2014)

Well this thread covered our conversation yesterday for a good few holes whilst I was there playing away in my football shirt, tucked out of course and learning from the two professionals I was playing with!

So we decided to implement this etiquette thingy that some people talk about on here.  Me being left handed made it fun, gave my two playing partners their fix of PT for the day as they constantly had to walk from one side of the T box to the other, although I think the best bit was on our 17th when they had to stand cuddled up to each other on a post in the stream to prevent them getting wet and making sure they kept quiet at the same time.

Personally the only thing that matters is they are quiet as you should be in the zone with your shot enough that it doesn't matter where they are and what they are doing (hand signals etc).

Now what top to wear whilst playing today.....................


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 12, 2014)

Pistol Peter said:



			I must say after reading a lot of this and talking to a few golfers today ( low Cat 1 golfers ) then I needed to agree with SILH and the others and it's clear that most of the posters on here don't know much about etiquette.

Also must add the poll question is wrong, I would not say in front off you but opposite you as in front of you would be ahead of you and you would then be in danger of getting hit.
		
Click to expand...

Again- adopt this convention if you wish, but don't criticise the etiquette of those that don't. As long as they are quiet and still, they are perfectly OK.


----------



## Robobum (Jan 12, 2014)

Pistol Peter said:



			I must say after reading a lot of this and talking to a few golfers today ( low Cat 1 golfers ) then I needed to agree with SILH and the others and it's clear that most of the posters on here don't know much about etiquette.

Also must add the poll question is wrong, I would not say in front off you but opposite you as in front of you would be ahead of you and you would then be in danger of getting hit.
		
Click to expand...

I love the way that referring to Cat 1 players (or captains/ committee members) somehow adds some credence to a point.

I'm going to use those criteria:

Played yesterday, group of 8. H'cap spread was +1 - 5. 3 county players, 1 of which plays for the RAF too. Two former club captains, 3 former and 1 current A team captain(s). And approx 15 years of committee service between us all. Age range from 27 - 58.

Not a concern about where to stand to be seen. 

Safe & out the way................yet again seems to be correct.

Anyone that thinks otherwise is stupid, ignorant, uneducated etc etc.












Ps I don't believe that last bit at all


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 12, 2014)

delc said:



			At least those daft frilly flappy things kept the water out of your shoes. My current shoes are quite water resistant, but they seem to let water in through the lace holes when it's very wet.
		
Click to expand...

Carry a load of blue tack in your bag, once your shoes are on block the holes with it 

I'm sending that one to Viz magazine.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 12, 2014)

john0 said:



			Is that you DfT? You got yourself a new account?
		
Click to expand...

No it is not me and may I suggest that the 'bully boys' show a some respect to the views expressed by a newish poster.
Perhaps the mods need to be more alert to this.
As I said I am out of here until sanity is restored.


----------



## chris661 (Jan 12, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			No it is not me and may I suggest that the 'bully boys' show a some respect to the views expressed by a newish poster.
Perhaps the mods need to be more alert to this.
As I said I am out of here until sanity is restored.
		
Click to expand...

And may I suggest that the "old guard" show some respect to those with more "modern" ways of thinking.

Anyway I read it as an attempt at humour .....


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 12, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			Wow, dream 4ball or what!
		
Click to expand...

Well...some here might learn some things about golf etiquette that they didn't know


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 12, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'll go for that. Could have loads of fun standing in the "wrong" place while they all tee off, while looking at my GPS device and whistling loudly.
		
Click to expand...

Well I'd certainly be confused as to why you'd be using a GPS device when standing on the tee


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 12, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well...some here might learn some things about golf etiquette that they didn't know 

Click to expand...

Or things that they don't NEED to know...


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 12, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			Or things that they don't NEED to know...
		
Click to expand...

There being etiquette that you don't need to know seems to be a view held by some.


----------



## Slime (Jan 12, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well I'd certainly be confused as to *why you'd be using a GPS device when standing on the tee *

Click to expand...

I'm often using my GPS when on the tee. It gives me distances to whatever hazards there maybe or carries required to cover them, very useful indeed and, ultimately, it saves time too!


*Slime*.


----------



## Robobum (Jan 12, 2014)

Slime said:



			I'm often using my GPS when on the tee. It gives me distances to whatever hazards there maybe or carries required to cover them, very useful indeed and, ultimately, it saves time too!


*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...

Don't put another bee in his bonnet!!!!

The saying about old dogs does not always ring true


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 12, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well I'd certainly be confused as to why you'd be using a GPS device when standing on the tee 

Click to expand...

Would that annoy you more or less than the whistling or standing in the wrong place?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 12, 2014)

Slime said:



			I'm often using my GPS when on the tee. It gives me distances to whatever hazards there maybe or carries required to cover them, very useful indeed and, ultimately, it saves time too!


*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...

I was thinking about a GPS telling you where you are on the course


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 12, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			There being etiquette that you don't need to know seems to be a view held by some.
		
Click to expand...

We will agree to differ.

I'm confident that - apart from you- my regular playing partners have no problem with my good etiquette, thank you very much.

However if you and I were ever to play together, I would of course stand facing you on every hole, without you having to ask me.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 12, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			We will agree to differ.

I'm confident that - apart from you- my regular playing partners have no problem with my good etiquette, thank you very much
		
Click to expand...

Apologies - but I wasn't referring to you personally.


----------



## MadAdey (Jan 12, 2014)

Is there a correct place to stand? I do not know or care as long as they are quite and not annoying me. At Spalding you can't always stand infront of someone. 

Take Spalding GC, you are forced to stand in certain positions others may find annoying.
1st stand behind
2nd stood looking down the line of the swing
9th behind
11th behind
13th behind
14th behind
15th behind

those positions are forced by the course layout. it is posible to stand infront on all those holes, but that would mean one of a few things. Standing in bushes, standing in deep rough or intefeering with another hole, or just having to stand too close.


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 12, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Is there a correct place to stand? I do not know or care as long as they are quite and not annoying me. At Spalding you can't always stand infront of someone. 

Take Spalding GC, you are forced to stand in certain positions others may find annoying.
1st stand behind
2nd stood looking down the line of the swing
9th behind
11th behind
13th behind
14th behind
15th behind

those positions are forced by the course layout. it is posible to stand infront on all those holes, but that would mean one of a few things. Standing in bushes, standing in deep rough or intefeering with another hole, or just having to stand too close.
		
Click to expand...

Same as the majority of our courses I would imagine mate.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 12, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well I'd certainly be confused as to why you'd be using a GPS device when standing on the tee 

Click to expand...

To check distances obviously


----------



## MadAdey (Jan 12, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			Same as the majority of our courses I would imagine mate.
		
Click to expand...

My point exactly, you can say that good etiquette says you should stand in certain places, butunless you are playing on a wide opne course it is not always practicable.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			To check distances obviously
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely. If the score card says it's a 375 yard Par 4 you need to check it really is that far before deciding whether to hit a 5 or a 6 iron onto the green.


----------



## Imurg (Jan 12, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			Absolutely. If the score card says it's a 375 yard Par 4 you need to check it really is that far before deciding whether to hit a 5 or a 6 iron onto the green.
		
Click to expand...

Or to check how far it is carry the bunker or make the corner of the dogleg.......


----------



## delc (Jan 12, 2014)

I wonder if this thread will make 100 pages and a thousand postings?  :lol:


----------



## MadAdey (Jan 12, 2014)

delc said:



			I wonder if this thread will make 100 pages and a thousand postings?  :lol:
		
Click to expand...


I'm sure it will. Has there ever been a thread that hit 1000 posts and 100 pages?

If there has never been one then can people just keep posting on topic threads to make it there?


----------



## bladeplayer (Jan 12, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Just to add a little impetus to a dwindling thread:   Where do you stand when the Captain pushes through on the first tee?
		
Click to expand...


On his chest ??


----------



## bladeplayer (Jan 12, 2014)

john0 said:



			Yes it includes the irish also 

Click to expand...

:rofl::clap:....


----------



## john0 (Jan 12, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			I'm sure it will. Has there ever been a thread that hit 1000 posts and 100 pages?

If there has never been one then can people just keep posting on topic threads to make it there?
		
Click to expand...

I had a thread once that made it to 1000 posts but then spoil sport Brendy closed it


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 12, 2014)

john0 said:



			I had a thread once that made it to 1000 posts but then spoil sport Brendy closed it
		
Click to expand...

Load of lightweights.

There are some Big Brother threads on another forum that have reached Part 20!


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 12, 2014)

delc said:



			I wonder if this thread will make 100 pages and a thousand postings?  :lol:
		
Click to expand...

I'm only on page 24!

You can go to Settings and adjust number of posts per page for easier viewing


----------



## Green Bay Hacker (Jan 12, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			I'm only on page 24!

*You can go to Settings and adjust number of posts per page for easier viewing*[/QUOTE*]
*
That's at least 2 things I've learnt from this thread.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Lincoln Quaker (Jan 12, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			I'm sure it will. Has there ever been a thread that hit 1000 posts and 100 pages?

If there has never been one then can people just keep posting on topic threads to make it there?
		
Click to expand...

I can't believe it's got to 96 pages so far. Oh and in the poll there is no vote for couldn't care less as its makes no diference to anyone's game as we are not professionals and we are here for enjoyment :ears:


----------



## MadAdey (Jan 12, 2014)

Lincoln Quaker said:



			I can't believe it's got to 96 pages so far.
		
Click to expand...

I find it is normally that threads like this that go on forever. Probably not the most important thread buts gets everyone talking.


----------



## chris661 (Jan 12, 2014)

Lincoln Quaker said:



			I can't believe it's got to 96 pages so far.
		
Click to expand...

It hasn't. Change your settings


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 12, 2014)

delc said:



			I wonder if this thread will make 100 pages and a thousand postings?  :lol:
		
Click to expand...

Have you not seen the prize for the 1000 poster?


----------



## bladeplayer (Jan 12, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			Have you not seen the prize for the 1000 poster?
		
Click to expand...

Splendid prize it would be too, to play with 2 gents off the forum ...


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 12, 2014)

bladeplayer said:



			Splendid prize it would be too, to play with 2 gents off the forum ...
		
Click to expand...

There's 3 of them listed, which one isn't a gent?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 12, 2014)

So I've seen acronyms on here such as a BAM, a DMZ and a HNSP and they have been explained.

Can someone confirm what the R&A is, I'm presuming it means Rab and Angus.


----------



## john0 (Jan 12, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			There's 3 of them listed, which one isn't a gent? 

Click to expand...

Maybe we should start a poll


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 12, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			So I've seen acronyms on here such as a BAM, a DMZ and a HNSP and they have been explained.

Can someone confirm what the R&A is, I'm presuming it means Rab and Angus.
		
Click to expand...

    I would suggest -Read & Agree. doesn't happen much on the forum


----------



## vkurup (Jan 12, 2014)

This thread is still on!!

For those too troubled by where people stand.. here is a solution.. 




Also useful in the current weather..


----------



## sev112 (Jan 12, 2014)

Ha ha ha ha ha ha

He he he he he 

Ho ho ho ho ho


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 12, 2014)

vkurup said:



			This thread is still on!!

For those too troubled by where people stand.. here is a solution.. 

View attachment 8778


Also useful in the current weather.. 

View attachment 8779

Click to expand...

Is that Adizeros he's wearing , they must be good in the wet, and make a deep impression.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 12, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Or to check how far it is carry the bunker or make the corner of the dogleg.......
		
Click to expand...

That having never played your own course before you have absolutely no idea about   Anyway - not for this thread since as well as on the matter of the existence of a HNSP - I have eccentric views on the use of GPS/DMDs


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 12, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			No!  In the Historically  Recognised Grovelling Position  (HRGP)
		
Click to expand...

Brown nose position. The BNP . OOPS .


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 12, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I have eccentric views on the use of GPS/DMDs 

Click to expand...

Really? You should share them with us at some point.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 12, 2014)

Lincoln Quaker said:



			I can't believe it's got to 96 pages so far. Oh and in the poll there is no vote for couldn't care less as its makes no diference to anyone's game as we are not professionals and we are here for enjoyment :ears:
		
Click to expand...

The underlying point that I and a few others are making is that we think that where you stand is a matter of etiquette that has been long established. 

My issue (and realisation of much surprise) is that most here do not seem to be aware of this etiquette, and indeeds dismiss the very notion that it is or even may be a matter of etiquette, and since they do not know of it seem quite happy to dismiss what we are confident to be the case.  

Many and varied alternatives on where to stand with rationale are given - most of which is true and reasonable, and much is written about what you do when you are waiting to play (keep still, keep quiet etc) but all of which rather misses the very simple point that we have been making.

I'll add - is it not perhaps a little curious that such as DfT and myself and a few others have *exactly *the same understanding given that we are in no way connected other than by this forum.  Curious that we would have all made up the same thing and then each had it confirmed by others (until now) through our golfing lives.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 12, 2014)

The problem is when you first started posting in this thread you basically accused everyone else of being wrong and your opinion being the only right one.

Obviously another poster has called everyone stupid for not following this ( well it's not a rule. ) position.

Using phrases like "universally accepted" when it's clears it isn't is always going to rub people up the wrong way

4 people as opposed up everyone else - majority seem to think different 

Maybe that says something to everyone and it should


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The problem is when you first started posting in this thread you basically accused everyone else of being wrong and your opinion being the only right one.

Obviously another poster has called everyone stupid for not following this ( well it's not a rule. ) position.

Using phrases like "universally accepted" when it's clears it isn't is always going to rub people up the wrong way

4 people as opposed up everyone else - majority seem to think different 

Maybe that says something to everyone and it should
		
Click to expand...

I mentioned before that of *course *I would take that view as I was absolutely convinced (as I still am) that it is a matter of long, long established etiquette.  It has only been since I stated that as it was a matter of etiquette then it DID matter where folk stood (etc) that I have realised (frankly to my amazement) that most on here haven't even heard of it.

And surely all matters of etiquette (whether or not this is one) are universally accepted


----------



## Pistol Peter (Jan 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The problem is when you first started posting in this thread you basically accused everyone else of being wrong and your opinion being the only right one.

Obviously another poster has called everyone stupid for not following this ( well it's not a rule. ) position.

Using phrases like "universally accepted" when it's clears it isn't is always going to rub people up the wrong way

4 people as opposed up everyone else - majority seem to think different 

Maybe that says something to everyone and it should
		
Click to expand...

I guess you can lead a horse to the water but you can't make it drink it, start thinking that you have learned from this thread and move on. I for one after asking "Golfers" have learned that what Hogan has said is the way it should be.......


----------



## NWJocko (Jan 12, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			The underlying point that I and a few others are making is that we think that where you stand is a matter of etiquette that has been long established. 

My issue (and realisation of much surprise) is that most here do not seem to be aware of this etiquette, and indeeds dismiss the very notion that it is or even may be a matter of etiquette, and since they do not know of it seem quite happy to dismiss what we are confident to be the case.  

Many and varied alternatives on where to stand with rationale are given - most of which is true and reasonable, and much is written about what you do when you are waiting to play (keep still, keep quiet etc) but all of which rather misses the very simple point that we have been making.

I'll add - is it not perhaps a little curious that such as DfT and myself and a few others have *exactly *the same understanding given that we are in no way connected other than by this forum.  Curious that we would have all made up the same thing and then each had it confirmed by others (until now) through our golfing lives.
		
Click to expand...

Here we go again (where's the kill me now smiley)

What is laughable/ironic is that you castigate people for not accepting your belief whilst not listening or considering alternatives.

Your first sentence would diffuse everything if you added "where practical" at the end.

I learned to play golf in St. Andrews, the self styled (perhaps) "home of golf" and, as I mentioned in a previous post you ignored as it doesn't fit your agenda, nobody who taught me there traipsed back and forth across tees or forced this universally accepted custom on playing partners.

Maybe a salt and sauce or salt and vinegar difference


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 12, 2014)

But even then when realising that the majority have never heard of it you still treated those people as ignorant golfers who fail to observe etiquette on a golf course 

Yesterday I mentioned that not one person followed this "universally accepted" position and you just dismissed them as not knowing the game and not being brought up within the game well enough 

It's extremly rude to judge people that way and disappointing


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jan 12, 2014)

One of the players in our regular four ball is a Cat 1 & a former County player, and I tend to stand behind him, so I put the question to him.  He said he far prefers it when people stand behind him as he can't see them.  Made a point of standing in front of him on our first (we started from the 10th) and he pointed out afterwards that he could see me.  

So, next week, do I stand in front of him, where I may be in his peripheral vision, to comply with the age-old rule of etiquette, or do I continue to be ignorant and stand behind him where he would prefer that I was?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But even then when realising that the majority have never heard of it you still treated those people as ignorant golfers who fail to observe etiquette on a golf course 

Yesterday I mentioned that not one person followed this "universally accepted" position and you just dismissed them as not knowing the game and not being brought up within the game well enough 

It's extremly rude to judge people that way and disappointing
		
Click to expand...

You can be ignorant of something without being ignorant - I think I made that point.  

And any 'dismissing' I have done has been tongue in cheek and simply in response to the nature of the dismissal that has been handed out by most here of what I and others understand to be true.  

There's seems to be a complete lack of acceptance in any way that what I and some others say could in fact be true - even although most on here and their mates haven't heard of it.  I haven't seen the world's tallest tree - doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.


----------



## richart (Jan 12, 2014)

I was told where to stand when I first starting playing, probably about the same time as SILH.  I started as a junior and you had to know the etiquette of the game before you were allowed on the course. Obviously there will be times when you can't stand to the side of someone teeing off because of the tee position, and it that case you stand else where. Personally I have no problem with where anyone stands as long as it is not directly behind the ball, but that is just me. 

Have we discussed where to stand when someone is putting yet ?


----------



## vkurup (Jan 12, 2014)

Girls, Girls, Girls.....  Can we stop bickering over this.. 

I play with multiple partners.  I stand where I think I wont interfere with their game. If however they have a preference, I will listen to them and change where I stand.  I will expect them to do likewise (which I hope is received wisdom or atleast not being rude to your partners)

I am just wondering when the Mods will step in and put this thread out of its misery.. IMHO, this has run its course.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 12, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			One of the players in our regular four ball is a Cat 1 & a former County player, and I tend to stand behind him, so I put the question to him.  He said he far prefers it when people stand behind him as he can't see them.  Made a point of standing in front of him on our first (we started from the 10th) and he pointed out afterwards that he could see me.  

So, next week, do I stand in front of him, where I may be in his peripheral vision, to comply with the age-old rule of etiquette, or do I continue to be ignorant and stand behind him where he would prefer that I was?
		
Click to expand...

Which is all good and true - but doesn't address whether there is a HNSP (which I believe was understood as etiquette).  Your buddy simply expressed a preference that, of course, over-rides the HNSP.  Us few proponents of the HNSP have never suggested otherwise.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 12, 2014)

Yes what you have been told could easily be some old etiquette that some people followed at some time 

But it's not this convention or any other phrase you mentioned

In all the years of you playing has every single person always stood directly opposite you whilst you tee off - I highly doubt that they off - so surely then you should have realised that you are just following one etiquette statement 

People can't be ignorant to something they didn't even know exsists 

And yes you suggested that me and my FC were ignorant to etiquette and suggested it's how we were brought into golf - that's very rude.


----------



## Snelly (Jan 12, 2014)

bladeplayer said:



			Splendid prize it would be too, to play with 2 gents off the forum ...
		
Click to expand...

I'd like you to clarify your meaning here please.


----------



## richart (Jan 12, 2014)

vkurup said:



			Girls, Girls, Girls.....  Can we stop bickering over this.. 

I play with multiple partners.  I stand where I think I wont interfere with their game. If however they have a preference, I will listen to them and change where I stand.  I will expect them to do likewise (which I hope is received wisdom or atleast not being rude to your partners)

I am just wondering when the Mods will step in and put this thread out of its misery.. IMHO, this has run its course.
		
Click to expand...

Hey stop trying to ruin the fun. We are going for 1000 posts.


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 12, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			You can be ignorant of something without being ignorant - I think I made that point.  

And any 'dismissing' I have done has been tongue in cheek and simply in response to the nature of the dismissal that has been handed out by most here of what I and others understand to be true.  

There's seems to be a complete lack of acceptance in any way that what I and some others say could in fact be true - even although most on here and their mates haven't heard of it.  I haven't seen the world's tallest tree - doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
		
Click to expand...

Your tree exists but not for ever I'm afraid, because everything changes with time . Even golf's long established rules and etiquette change .
 Even though some older guys don't like it we have to accept it.


----------



## vkurup (Jan 12, 2014)

richart said:



			Hey stop trying to ruin the fun. We are going for 1000 posts.

Click to expand...

Only 20 more posts to go...  shall we start doing a count down, before the Mods wake up.


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 12, 2014)

vkurup said:



			Only 20 more posts to go...  shall we start doing a count down, before the Mods wake up.
		
Click to expand...

 Its the only record I'll be involved in this year so keep it going .


----------



## richart (Jan 12, 2014)

vkurup said:



			Only 20 more posts to go...  shall we start doing a count down, before the Mods wake up.
		
Click to expand...

 I think we should let SILH have the 1000 post. He can have the first and last on the thread which seems fair.:thup:


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 12, 2014)

richart said:



			I think we should let SILH have the 1000 post. He can have the first and last on the thread seems which seems fair.:thup:
		
Click to expand...

Ok with me , he's already had most of them anyway.:rofl::thup:


----------



## 3565 (Jan 12, 2014)

I'm staggered that this post is this long and although I've read bits n pieces, (if I read from the start I think I'll still be here this time next week reading) I may of not picked up on a view point, so sorry if it's already been said. 

While there is nothing in the rule book stating where to stand, if you look in the professional game they all stand facing the player on the tee, all except if there is a left hander in the group then they are behind, as you can't expect the 2 players and caddies to then go over to the other side of the tee just to face him? as amateurs we tend to copy the professionals and do what they do. It's more a habit I think of seeing and doing, and I find myself at times standing behind a player on a tee after I've tee'd off thinking I need to face the player while he tees off. Why? Cos that's where I see the pros stand on the tee. Monkey see.........


----------



## richart (Jan 12, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Mods - you can now close this if you wish now that I have clarified my statement.
		
Click to expand...

 From the opening post. I think the Mods should explain themselves.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 12, 2014)

But the pro don't all stand facing the person who is teeing off 

Most of the time they are back right on the tee.


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 12, 2014)

Wasn't there something about only one player at a time being within or on the teeing ground ?


----------



## vkurup (Jan 13, 2014)

richart said:



			I think we should let SILH have the 1000 post. He can have the first and last on the thread which seems fair.:thup:
		
Click to expand...

Oh no.. SILH seems to gone to bed and may miss this milestone...  less than 10 posts needed..


----------



## 3565 (Jan 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But the pro don't all stand facing the person who is teeing off 

Most of the time they are back right on the tee.
		
Click to expand...

does it matter if it's back right, centre right or forward right, they are SORT OF facing the player on the tee who is playing.


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 13, 2014)

3565 said:



			does it matter if it's back right, centre right or forward right, they are SORT OF facing the player on the tee who is playing.
		
Click to expand...

Pedantic :whoo: 8 to go


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 13, 2014)

But seen some also stand at the back of the tee and behind the player - seem them stand all over the place 

But the main thing is they are being still and quiet


----------



## 3565 (Jan 13, 2014)

williamalex1 said:



			Pedantic :whoo: 8 to go
		
Click to expand...

Not being pedantic at all just stating what you see on tv you numpty.


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 13, 2014)

3565 said:



			Not being pedantic at all just stating what you see on tv you numpty.
		
Click to expand...

Just trying to keeping it going, no need to be rude and get it shut down with only a few posts to go remember your position, BAM.


----------



## vkurup (Jan 13, 2014)

3565 said:



			Not being pedantic at all just stating what you see on tv you *numpty*.
		
Click to expand...

Potential infraction alert... as deadly sin as standing on the wrong side :ears:

4 more.. come on SILH post it.. (you know u want to)


----------



## 3565 (Jan 13, 2014)

vkurup said:



			Potential infraction alert... as deadly sin as standing on the wrong side 

4 more.. come on SILH post it.. (you know u want to)
		
Click to expand...

Report me..........could think of a lot worse


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 13, 2014)

When my dad was teaching me about etiquette and where to stand when someone was teeing off he did reference the 12 o'clock position as being safe. He also said anywhere behind the ball and well back will be safe. Standing down the line would be frowned upon. When he was saying to stand in the 12 position it was a "where to stand for dummies". It was an effort to keep me safe. I was a kid at the time.


----------



## Slime (Jan 13, 2014)

garyinderry said:



*When my dad was teaching me about etiquette and where to stand* when someone was teeing off he did reference the 12 o'clock position as being safe. He also said anywhere behind the ball and well back will be safe. Standing down the line would be frowned upon. When he was saying to stand in the 12 position it was a "where to stand for dummies". It was an effort to keep me safe. I was a kid at the time.
		
Click to expand...

When my dad was teaching me about etiquette and where to stand he said keep out of the bloody way and shut the hell up!
Never did me any harm or got me into any trouble .................................... ever!


*Slime*.


----------



## john0 (Jan 13, 2014)

How many posts left before 1000th?


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 13, 2014)

Boooooooom!


----------



## john0 (Jan 13, 2014)

john0 said:



			How many posts left before 1000th?
		
Click to expand...

Ooops.... oh I haven't have I, please no, don't tell me that I've won the fourball voucher. .....


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 13, 2014)

john0 said:



			Ooops.... oh I haven't have I, please no, don't tell me that I've won the fourball voucher. .....
		
Click to expand...

Pictures required from the day please.


----------



## john0 (Jan 13, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Pictures required from the day please. 

Click to expand...

I think I might advertise it in the For Sale section.... fingers crossed that a gullible newcomer snaps it up without realising what they're doing!


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 13, 2014)

john0 said:



			Ooops.... oh I haven't have I, please no, don't tell me that I've won the fourball voucher. .....
		
Click to expand...

disqualified you didn't post in the HNSP


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 13, 2014)

Where's the fireworks and SILH.


----------



## john0 (Jan 13, 2014)

Oh well I suppose that I will just have to accept my prize and try and make the best of things -think I'll have to borrow some left handed clubs for the day to ensure that the other 3 do some tee shuffling.  

Anyone fancying caddying for me?


----------



## delc (Jan 13, 2014)

Hooray! Over 1000 postings on a non subject!!!  :whoo:


----------



## Slab (Jan 13, 2014)

Played Saturday and the topic of this thread never entered my head after the first tee shots

Looking back, players were standing everywhere, with the exception of: 
no-one was too close to the player tee'ing off (in any direction)
no-one was ahead of the tee box (in the line of fire)

Good natured game was had by all


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 13, 2014)

Well I did suggest that the mods could close it after I posted my OP!   Anyway. Here we are 1000+ posts.  Never has so much been posted by so many about so little.

I agree that it may seem a non-issue and in general it is - however it is certainly the case that many of the rules of golf and etiquette can seem (and sometimes are) baffling - especially to the newcomer.  After all how many times do we read here words along the lines of 'I don't understand why you can't just...'  You all know the sort of thing.

Maybe I'll ask an unrepresentative sample of members at my track (i.e. folks I know) about this and see what they say - and one day sometime I'll post back here on what I find out.

So two little promises from me - I will continue to teach what I believe to be the HNSP as etiquette to all new players or players who are unsure; and I will not harangue anyone who stands elsewhere unless they stand where they shouldn't or if where they stand bothers me - and then it won't be a harangue - more a request - with a smile.

I will of course demonstrate the HNSP to @JohnO (from Hartlepool?) when he visits not so sunny surrey to have a complimentary knock with me round my track  

Must off soon as I have must practice recovery shots from rough - baffing-spoon is a splendid implement for that - who needs a hybrid!


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 13, 2014)

To me it is fairly simple, etiquette in all areas of life, not only golf, evolves over time.  When people feel something is no longer necessary/ appropriate etc etc then accepted standards and norms change.  

Given that the game of golf is surviving quite nicely without the rigid application of this HNSP or whatever you call it, would suggest quite strongly that it is no longer the a part of the required etiquette of golf.  

The modern etiquette in regard to the tee box is to stand in a position that is acceptable to whoever is teeing off, to keep quiet and to keep still.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 13, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			To me it is fairly simple, etiquette in all areas of life, not only golf, evolves over time.  When people feel something is no longer necessary/ appropriate etc etc then accepted standards and norms change.  

Given that the game of golf is surviving quite nicely without the rigid application of this HNSP or whatever you call it, would suggest quite strongly that it is no longer the a part of the required etiquette of golf.  

The modern etiquette in regard to the tee box is to stand in a position that is acceptable to whoever is teeing off, to keep quiet and to keep still.
		
Click to expand...

Summed up very well indeed :thup:


----------



## delc (Jan 13, 2014)

Any chance of closing this thread, which is going nowhere, before it gets to 2000 posts Moderators?


----------



## JamesR (Jan 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Summed up very well indeed :thup:
		
Click to expand...

As it had been 637 times before, still not right though, and would incur the ire of those who know best!


----------



## john0 (Jan 13, 2014)

delc said:



			Any chance of closing this thread, which is going nowhere, before it gets to 2000 posts Moderators?
		
Click to expand...

But then nobody can win the prize for 2000th post


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 13, 2014)

delc said:



			Any chance of closing this thread, which is going nowhere, before it gets to 2000 posts Moderators?
		
Click to expand...


Why the desire to have a thread closed 

Soon enough it will come to a natural closure and drift away 

There is no reason to close it currently IMO


----------



## chris661 (Jan 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why the desire to have a thread closed 

Soon enough it will come to a natural closure and drift away 

There is no reason to close it currently IMO
		
Click to expand...

Is the correct answer.


----------



## JamesR (Jan 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why the desire to have a thread closed 

Soon enough it will come to a natural closure and drift away
		
Click to expand...

In fact, it was doing until 2 o'clock, and then...


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 13, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			To me it is fairly simple, etiquette in all areas of life, not only golf, evolves over time.  When people feel something is no longer necessary/ appropriate etc etc then accepted standards and norms change.  

Given that the game of golf is surviving quite nicely without the rigid application of this HNSP or whatever you call it, would suggest quite strongly that it is no longer the a part of the required etiquette of golf.  

The modern etiquette in regard to the tee box is to stand in a position that is acceptable to whoever is teeing off, to keep quiet and to keep still.
		
Click to expand...

Nothing about teeing off has changed in the last 40yrs - though attitudes towards rules have.  In this specific matter I don't see why modern etiquette should be any different from historical etiquette - if it applied for good reasons back then - then it should apply today.

And you have - like many others - seem to maintain and state the view that what DfT and I suggested as being rigid - it's not rigid.  You only stand in the HNSP when you can; when it's sensible; when it's appropriate, and you move elsewhere if the player teeing off asks you to move elsewhere.

Many aspects of golf etiquette are not at all obvious to a newcomer to the game - and so the newcomer has to be advised.  We can all agree that where you stand is one of these things that may not be immediately obvious to the newcomer.  And so it's best to have some simple rules or guidelines for newcomers based upon what we know (from precedent and experience) golfers to have found to be in general most appropriate and least likely to be distracting (this would lead me to refer to such a rule as etiquette).  

And that is all there is to the HNSP.  If you don't know of a player's preference for where you should stand when he is teeing off (actually who would tell you that up front) - then easy - just stand at the HNSP and you will rarely go wrong.  Nothing to do with whether that position suits you - but all to do with what suits the player on the tee.

And out.


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 13, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Nothing about teeing off has changed in the last 40yrs - though attitudes towards rules have.  In this specific matter I don't see why modern etiquette should be any different from historical etiquette - if it applied for good reasons back then - then it should apply today.

And you have - like many others - seem to maintain and state the view that what DfT and I suggested as being rigid - it's not rigid.  You only stand in the HNSP when you can; when it's sensible; when it's appropriate, and you move elsewhere if the player teeing off asks you to move elsewhere.

Many aspects of golf etiquette are not at all obvious to a newcomer to the game - and so the newcomer has to be advised.  We can all agree that where you stand is one of these things that may not be immediately obvious to the newcomer.  And so it's best to have some simple rules or guidelines for newcomers based upon what we know (from precedent and experience) golfers to have found to be in general most appropriate and least likely to be distracting (this would lead me to refer to such a rule as etiquette).  

And that is all there is to the HNSP.  If you don't know of a player's preference for where you should stand when he is teeing off (actually who would tell you that up front) - then easy - just stand at the HNSP and you will rarely go wrong.  Nothing to do with whether that position suits you - but all to do with what suits the player on the tee.

And out.
		
Click to expand...

I only read through a couple of lines of that to realise that you are missing the point completely.  It was a point of etiquette once - it isn't any more.


----------



## delc (Jan 13, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Is the correct answer.
		
Click to expand...

So why were two of my threads closed down so quickly, when they couldn't possibly be more pointless than this one!


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 13, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			I only read through a couple of lines of that to realise that you are missing the point completely.  It was a point of etiquette once - it isn't any more.
		
Click to expand...

The " Professionals " seem to adhere to it mostly :thup:


----------



## JamesR (Jan 13, 2014)

I think actually that most people agree - 2 o'clock'ish is a good place to stand, you can easily follow the ball to assist spotting the shot, you are not in the way, or at risk of flying golf clubs or ball.

What people do say is that it isn't a rigid rule of etiquette that must be adhered to when possible, and those that don't always stand there are not ignorant.

At the most it is just best practice.


----------



## Hacker Khan (Jan 13, 2014)

I always say if you are confused, check with the sun, carry a compass to help you along, your feet are going to be on the ground, your head is there to move you around. 

Simples really, and everyone is happy.  And if anyone stands facing me then they are fair game to be hit the way I play sometimes.


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 13, 2014)

Gil_Emott said:



			I think actually that most people agree - 2 o'clock'ish is a good place to stand, you can easily follow the ball to assist spotting the shot, you are not in the way, or at risk of flying golf clubs or ball.

What people do say is that it isn't a rigid rule of etiquette that must be adhered to when possible, and those that don't always stand there are not ignorant.

At the most it is just best practice.
		
Click to expand...

:thup:


----------



## Phil2511 (Jan 13, 2014)

delc said:



			So why were two of my threads closed down so quickly, when they couldn't possibly be more pointless than this one!
		
Click to expand...

I believe this was explained to you in a PM by a member of the moderating team.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 13, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			I only read through a couple of lines of that to realise that you are missing the point completely.  It was a point of etiquette once - it isn't any more.
		
Click to expand...

Well that makes two of us.  

A matter of etiquette doesn't just _disappear _if some can't be bothered with it, haven't heard of it, or don't see the point of it.  

It would correctly disappear if the conditions under which the etiquette or other guidelines applied themselves disappeared or became obsolete - for instance the position of the tee box (we don't use sand to form a tee these days).  But nothing about teeing off has changed.  So why should the etiquette disappear or not apply today?  That's all.

And as I have already mentioned - it *isn't *rigid - it is a starting point.


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 13, 2014)

delc said:



			So why were two of my threads closed down so quickly, when they couldn't possibly be more pointless than this one!
		
Click to expand...

"Pointless" is subjective. This thread has provided entertainment and (mostly) good natured banter. In the Winter months, this is invaluable. I didn't read your threads so can't comment on them though...

Anyway, I've joined a new club today, and one of the selling points was that jeans were allowed in the Clubhouse (not on the course obviously). I can play off the whites whenever I want and my kids are more than welcome to join me after a round... So I'm in a good mood..... Happy Golfing...:thup:


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 13, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well that makes two of us.  

A matter of etiquette doesn't just _disappear _if some can't be bothered with it, haven't heard of it, or don't see the point of it.  

It would correctly disappear if the conditions under which the etiquette or other guidelines applied themselves disappeared or became obsolete - for instance the position of the tee box (we don't use sand to form a tee these days).  But nothing about teeing off has changed.  So why should the etiquette disappear or not apply today?  That's all.

And as I have already mentioned - it *isn't *rigid - it is a starting point.
		
Click to expand...

You are right, a point of etiquette doesn't just disappear because *some* cant be bothered with, it disappears because the *majority* can't be bothered with it.

Over a period of time people feel something is unnecessary, less and less people do it until it is no longer the accepted norm or a point of etiquette.  This happens in all walks of life and no doubt in other sports as well.


----------



## Fish (Jan 13, 2014)

http://youtu.be/c3DcChXNyYQ


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 13, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And you have - like many others - seem to maintain and state the view that what DfT and I suggested as being rigid - it's not rigid.  You only stand in the HNSP when you can; when it's sensible; when it's appropriate, and you move elsewhere if the player teeing off asks you to move elsewhere.
.
		
Click to expand...

That sounds a lot less rigid than your first few posts on the matter.


What have we learnt from this thread?


There is a "widely known accepted practice" which is not widely known, and therefore not universally practiced.

This widely known practice should be adhered to because "most" players prefer that others stand facing the person on the tee.

Most players aren't really bothered if others face their front or their back as they remain stationary and silent.

Golfers have far too much time on their hands


Has this thread changed where I will stand in the future?
Not much- those people that I usually play with seem to adopt the same practice as myself, ie stand on the path side of the tee, be it right or left.
When I play interclub matches against ladies I have never met before, I always say on the first tee "I'm pretty careful about where I stand, but if I am in the wrong place for you, please let me know. I won't be in the "wrong" place on purpose."


----------



## JamesR (Jan 13, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			When I play interclub matches against ladies I have never met before, I always say on the first tee "I'm pretty careful about where I stand, but if I am in the wrong place for you, please let me know. I won't be in the "wrong" place on purpose."
		
Click to expand...

Brilliant gamesmanship, they'll be thinking about where you're standing every time they tee off :thup:


----------



## bladeplayer (Jan 13, 2014)

Snelly said:



			I'd like you to clarify your meaning here please.
		
Click to expand...




stevie_r said:



			There's 3 of them listed, which one isn't a gent? 

Click to expand...

DOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Totally my bad guys i did not see the 3rd name in the post .. MY apologies to Snelly 




_Splendid prize it would be too, to play with 2 gents off the forum_

Click to expand...

_ ...& snelly _:rofl:

Just kidding mate genuinely did not see 3rd name , it would be a pleasure also im sure :thup:


----------



## Imurg (Jan 13, 2014)

I saw someone crossing the tee box to the opposite side when a Lefty was pegging up his ball.
No really I did.
A Righty played, this Guy then walked across to the other side while the lefty played, he then crossed back for the 3rd player, a Righty,  and then tee'd off himself.........

Trouble is......

He went from behind the Righty's back to behind the Lefty's and then behind the Righty's back again.....â€¦

Came close to wetting myself........:rofl:


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 13, 2014)

Imurg said:



			I saw someone crossing the tee box to the opposite side when a Lefty was pegging up his ball.
No really I did.
A Righty played, this Guy then walked across to the other side while the lefty played, he then crossed back for the 3rd player, a Righty,  and then tee'd off himself.........

Trouble is......

He went from behind the Righty's back to behind the Lefty's and then behind the Righty's back again.....â€¦

Came close to wetting myself........:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Ah, but thats the Edinburgh position.. Don't get in the middle of that little argument...


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 13, 2014)

Gil_Emott said:



			Brilliant gamesmanship, they'll be thinking about where you're standing every time they tee off :thup:
		
Click to expand...

They may well be, but my actual message is meant to be â€I don't do silly gamesmanship so don't try it on with me!"


----------



## sev112 (Jan 13, 2014)

The funny thing is , it is apparently bad etiquette to stand behind a player's back in case the player throws his club at you after a bad shot ...?  Which apparently is OK etiquette ...?
...


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 13, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			You are right, a point of etiquette doesn't just disappear because *some* cant be bothered with, it disappears because the *majority* can't be bothered with it.

Over a period of time people feel something is unnecessary, less and less people do it until it is no longer the accepted norm or a point of etiquette.  This happens in all walks of life and no doubt in other sports as well.
		
Click to expand...

Really? Perhaps in matters of fashion or local club custom - but general etiquette?  Who would be 'surveyed' to find out whether the majority can't be bothered with something?  Even if you could determine the majority view you can't have it local to a club or area, as one crucial aspect of golfing etiquette is that it is common across boundaries and ages - it's what enables us to play the game together with (theoretically ) little in the way of grounds for disagreement.  And besides, etiquette is generally manners and consideration driven - so just because one group of golfers can't be bothered with something absolutely doesn't remove the need for it - indeed one of the great things about our game is that we show absolute consideration for others - *regardless* of our own feelings or views.


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 13, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Really? Perhaps in matters of fashion or local club custom - but general etiquette?  Who would be 'surveyed' to find out whether the majority can't be bothered with something?
		
Click to expand...

Yes really, in everything, including what you call general etiquette.  You don't have to survey anyone to see if they can be bothered, it doesn't go to a vote or referendum; slowly, over time, practises and beliefs change.  The fact that the vast majority don't do it prove the fact.  It is no longer etiquette.  In addition have a look at the coloured lines at the top of the page, they give you a clue too.

Let me repeat it for the final time, whether YOU like it or not, this HNSP crap is no longer a point of current golf etiquette.  You of course may continue to stand there if you wish - as long as your PP is happy with it.


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 13, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Really? Perhaps in matters of fashion or local club custom - but general etiquette?  Who would be 'surveyed' to find out whether the majority can't be bothered with something?  Even if you could determine the majority view you can't have it local to a club or area, as one crucial aspect of golfing etiquette is that it is common across boundaries and ages - it's what enables us to play the game together with (theoretically ) little in the way of grounds for disagreement.  And besides, etiquette is generally manners and consideration driven - so just because one group of golfers can't be bothered with something absolutely doesn't remove the need for it - indeed one of the great things about our game is that we show absolute consideration for others - *regardless* of our own feelings or views.
		
Click to expand...

But yet again you are saying that it is inconsiderate and ill-mannered to stand somewhere other that this position that you advocate.
I stand- quiet and still- on the path side of tee. If  requested to stand elsewhere, I will promptly do so in a considerate manner.

I am most definitely NOT inconsiderate or ill-mannered. Please stop insisting that I am.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 13, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			I am most definitely NOT inconsiderate or ill-mannered. Please stop insisting that I am.
		
Click to expand...

You know well that I am not suggesting that for one moment.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 13, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			You know well that I am not suggesting that for one moment.
		
Click to expand...

But every time you post on here you keep suggesting people are because they don't follow this etiquette rule you were informed of by some guy from Glasgow - you may not realise it but that's exactly what is happening


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But every time you post on here you keep suggesting people are because they don't follow this etiquette rule you were informed of by some guy from Glasgow - you may not realise it but that's exactly what is happening
		
Click to expand...

Groan - I can't help what folks choose to read into what I write but that is not my intention.  And it wasn't just 'some guy from Glasgow' - it is what I have understood and had confirmed over the years I have played by others by their actions.

However it is now VERY clear to me that most others here don't recognise what I have been advocating as pretty basic etiquette.  And that does surprise me.


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 13, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			However it is now VERY clear to me that most others here don't recognise what I have been advocating as pretty basic etiquette.  And that does surprise me.
		
Click to expand...

Groan, and the fact that they don't proves, beyond all reasonable doubt, that it is not current golfing etiquette.  If it were then the vast majority of golfers would carry it out.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jan 13, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			However it is now VERY clear to me that most others here don't recognise what I have been advocating as pretty basic etiquette.  And that does surprise me.
		
Click to expand...

Basic etiquette is to stand quietly in a position where you and your shadow will not distract your FC, whilst allowing you the best opportunity to watch your FC's ball.  End of.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 13, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Groan - I can't help what folks choose to read into what I write but that is not my intention.  And it wasn't just 'some guy from Glasgow' - it is what I have understood and had confirmed over the years I have played by others by their actions.

However it is now VERY clear to me that most others here don't recognise what I have been advocating as pretty basic etiquette.  And that does surprise me.
		
Click to expand...

Because people see basic etiquette as keeping quiet and still whilst their FC is taking their shot with the position that they stand irrelevant


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 13, 2014)

OK...


----------



## Fish (Jan 13, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			OK...
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 13, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			To me it is fairly simple, etiquette in all areas of life, not only golf, evolves over time.  When people feel something is no longer necessary/ appropriate etc etc then accepted standards and norms change.  

Given that the game of golf is surviving quite nicely without the rigid application of this HNSP or whatever you call it, would suggest quite strongly that it is no longer the a part of the required etiquette of golf.  

The modern etiquette in regard to the tee box is to stand in a position that is acceptable to whoever is teeing off, to keep quiet and to keep still.
		
Click to expand...

Stevie

That is was exactly the same as my take on it. So why are you not on the receiving end of the abuse I have been getting

My argument all along is with people on here telling me that the position where you stood on the tee was absolute rubbish, something that Hogan and I [and about 20 others on this thread] had somehow invented, set in stone and was something all golfers had to adhere to.


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Jan 13, 2014)

Shall I lock it now while we have the chance ??


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 13, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Shall I lock it now while we have the chance ?? 

Click to expand...

Very wearily - yes please


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 13, 2014)

Why the need to lock the thread ? Surely it will come to a natural end on its own accord


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Jan 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why the need to lock the thread ? Surely it will come to a natural end on its own accord
		
Click to expand...

you reckon. not if you keep posting on it :rofl:

the comment was made in jest btw:thup:


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 13, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			you reckon. not if you keep posting on it :rofl:

the comment was made in jest btw:thup:
		
Click to expand...

A few have asked for it to be closed just unsure why any would need closing unless it had got nasty :thup:


----------



## Hacker Khan (Jan 13, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Anyway, I've joined a new club today, and one of the selling points was that jeans were allowed in the Clubhouse (not on the course obviously). I can play off the whites whenever I want and my kids are more than welcome to join me after a round... So I'm in a good mood..... Happy Golfing...:thup:
		
Click to expand...

Where is this mythical place, it sounds like a vision in a dream, is it Xanadu?


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 13, 2014)

Phil, you should see it from my side of the fence.

I am very disappointed by the reaction of a few on here and will be crossing them off my Xmas card list.


----------



## Slime (Jan 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A few have asked for it to be closed just unsure why any would need closing *unless it had got nasty *:thup:
		
Click to expand...

Is that a threat, a promise or a dare?  


*Slime*.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 13, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Phil, you should see it from my side of the fence.

I am very disappointed by the reaction of a few on here and will be crossing them off my Xmas card list.
		
Click to expand...

Have I missed something ? 

:mmm:


----------



## tsped83 (Jan 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A few have asked for it to be closed just unsure why any would need closing unless it had got nasty :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Maybe it needs to be closed because it's........DULL....


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 13, 2014)

no one is forced to read.   locking threads is censorship. It is unnecessary as we are all adults.


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 13, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Phil, you should see it from my side of the fence.

I am very disappointed by the reaction of a few on here and will be crossing them off my Xmas card list.
		
Click to expand...

I would hope that I'm not one of the guilty parties. I don't think that I've been abusive in any way, shape or form, but I am aware that sometimes offence is taken without any intention. If I have insulted anyone then please have my apologies. I think that this thread has stayed just on the right side of "banter" for the vast majority of its lifespan...


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 13, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Where is this mythical place, it sounds like a vision in a dream, is it Xanadu?
		
Click to expand...

Lol. I spoke to the owner and pro today, and words like "progressive" and "modern" were used repeatedly.. Right now this club suits my needs.  I'm sure there are plenty who would prefer a more "traditional" club.. Different strokes for different folks..:thup:


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 13, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Lol. I spoke to the owner and pro today, and words like "progressive" and "modern" were used repeatedly.. Right now this club suits my needs.  I'm sure there are plenty who would prefer a more "traditional" club.. Different strokes for different folks..:thup:
		
Click to expand...


Good luck at your new club :thup:


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 13, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			I would hope that I'm not one of the guilty parties. I don't think that I've been abusive in any way, shape or form, but I am aware that sometimes offence is taken without any intention. If I have insulted anyone then please have my apologies. I think that this thread has stayed just on the right side of "banter" for the vast majority of its lifespan...

Click to expand...

You don't manage golf courses for 25 years without getting a fair amount of abuse, one assault, two death threats and one threat on my family's safety. [and that was just the Ladies Section!]
I am pretty bomb proof and a few weekend warriors will wash straight off me.

I just felt the tone of a few replies to Hogan, myself and a new member were not really 'banter' and unusual for this otherwise excellent forum.


----------



## chris661 (Jan 13, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			no one is forced to read.   locking threads is censorship. *It is unnecessary as we are all adults. *

Click to expand...

Em, actually sometimes it is necessary because not everyone acts like an adult all the time


----------



## chrisd (Jan 13, 2014)

I havn't had my say yet ........ If someone could just tell me what this load of cobblers is about then I would like to post my opinion before the threads closed!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 13, 2014)

chrisd said:



			I havn't had my say yet ........ If someone could just tell me what this load of cobblers is about then I would like to post my opinion before the threads closed!
		
Click to expand...

Where do you stand when your FC tee off ? :thup:


----------



## JustOne (Jan 13, 2014)

Hello 

Just wanted in before the thread gets locked..... :thup:

I stand where I want.... if someone asks me to move then I will.   

</end>


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 13, 2014)

chrisd said:



			I havn't had my say yet ........ If someone could just tell me what this load of cobblers is about then I would like to post my opinion before the threads closed!
		
Click to expand...

Don't come the smarty pants, you must have read it to know that it is a load of cobblers!


----------



## john0 (Jan 13, 2014)

JustOne said:



			Hello 

Just wanted in before the thread gets locked..... :thup:

I stand where I want.... if someone asks me to move then I will.   

</end>
		
Click to expand...

I can't believe that there has been over 1000 posts of arguing and you haven't been involved yet


----------



## delc (Jan 13, 2014)

Phil2511 said:



			I believe this was explained to you in a PM by a member of the moderating team.
		
Click to expand...

One moderator told me I could start a separate thread on the yips in post #387 in 'The Rules I would like to change' thread, which I did, but then another moderator said I couldn't and closed the thread!  As a significant number of older long term players suffer from this affliction, surely it is of interest?  At least more interesting than the load of garbage in this thread. A number of posters have correctly answered the OP's question, but they keep getting ignored!


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 13, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Phil, you should see it from my side of the fence.
		
Click to expand...

Is standing behind a fence while an FC tees off considered good or bad etiquette? Maybe that's the problem with the HNSP. DfT and SILH have been building fences around it and others aren't able to get in to stand there.


----------



## chrisd (Jan 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Where do you stand when your FC tee off ? :thup:
		
Click to expand...



On my Footjoys of course!





Doon frae Troon said:



			Don't come the smarty pants, you must have read it to know that it is a load of cobblers!
		
Click to expand...

Me! A smarty pants Doon? How could you?

Us from the South East can smell a load of cobblers from 50 posts away!


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 13, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Stevie

That is was exactly the same as my take on it. So why are you not on the receiving end of the abuse I have been getting

My argument all along is with people on here telling me that the position where you stood on the tee was absolute rubbish, something that Hogan and I [and about 20 others on this thread] had somehow invented, set in stone and was something all golfers had to adhere to.
		
Click to expand...

Doon,

I have no idea and couldn't comment pal, I haven't followed this thread religiously and have only looked at it now and again.  Apart from waiting for the 1000 post last night, which dragged on and on so I went to bed.  We could have said what ever we wanted - no mods logged on at all


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 13, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			You don't manage golf courses for 25 years without getting a fair amount of abuse, one assault, two death threats and one threat on my family's safety. [and that was just the Ladies Section!]
I am pretty bomb proof and a few weekend warriors will wash straight off me.

I just felt the tone of a few replies to Hogan, myself and *a new member* were not really 'banter' and unusual for this otherwise excellent forum.
		
Click to expand...

The new member seemed pretty able to stand up for himself by playing the Category 1 card and saying some on here don't know much about etiquette.  A very jokey reply to said new member then attributed to a bully by someone... who also extrapolated that those who don't adhere to this convention will also play slowly, be noisy and fail to call anyone through.

Pot... kettle...

Anyhoo.
It's been educational. 

In many ways.

I'm happy to accept that this convention exists for some, but this thread illustrates that it is definitely not widely known or practised


----------



## Allanxyz (Jan 13, 2014)

I might go as far as to concede that standing in front of the person teeing off could be seen as "best practice", but to me there is a cigarette paper between this and standing behind the opponent (behind his back) - backed up by the poll results (in that nobody really cares as long as you are quiet and still). As there is essentially not much difference between this and "best practice" it doesn't make sense to me to be crossing the tee box.

@SILH - part of this debate was the premise that you should stand in front as this is the best place for an FC, and if you don't stand there they might be too shy to let you know... What do you make of the pole results... Do you concede that generally people don't mind, so you're making this big effort for no reason.

i agree with a whoever wrote that the etiquette has evolved here. If we had another pole asking if you stood still and on the path next to your bag, but behind the players back...would you consider this bad etiquette I strongly believe the majority will say it is not.


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 13, 2014)

delc said:



			One moderator told me I could start a separate thread on the yips in post #387 in 'The Rules I would like to change' thread, which I did, but then another moderator said I couldn't and closed the thread!  As a significant number of older long term players suffer from this affliction, surely it is of interest?  At least more interesting than the load of garbage in this thread. A number of posters have correctly answered the OP's question, but they keep getting ignored!
		
Click to expand...


A bit off topic Del...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 13, 2014)

chrisd said:



			On my Footjoys of course!
		
Click to expand...

Thankfully not Adizeros :thup:


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Jan 13, 2014)

delc said:



			One moderator told me I could start a separate thread on the yips in post #387 in 'The Rules I would like to change' thread, which I did, but then another moderator said I couldn't and closed the thread!  As a significant number of older long term players suffer from this affliction, surely it is of interest?  At least more interesting than the load of garbage in this thread. A number of posters have correctly answered the OP's question, but they keep getting ignored!
		
Click to expand...


Del as discussed via PM, the subject of The Yips had been fully discussed, dissected , regurgitated and recycled as firelighters on the "rules we would like to see thread" over the previous few days and therefore was no valid reason to start up a new thread.

if you wish to vent your spleen further, please take it to PM


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 13, 2014)

I know my replies on this thread haven't always been serious but two genuine questions for SILH or DfT or anyone else on that side of the discussion/argument. 

1) How do you deal with raised tees? At my place there are a couple that are 4-5 feet above the level of the surrounding ground. Would this fall under times when it was not practicable to stand facing the player?

2) If I am smoking while you tee off and I am facing you but upwind of you, would you rather I move to avoid smoke blowing in your direction or stay in the HNSP?


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 13, 2014)

from the usga *Golf Etiquette 101.*

Consideration for Other Players

No Disturbance or Distraction

Players should always show consideration for other players on the course and should not disturb their play by moving, talking or making any unnecessary noise. 

Players should ensure that any electronic device taken onto the course does not distract other players. 

On the teeing ground, a player should not tee his ball until it is his turn to play. 

Players should not stand close to or directly behind the ball, or directly behind the hole, when a player is about to play.


----------



## john0 (Jan 13, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			The new member seemed pretty able to stand up for himself by playing the Category 1 card and saying some on here don't know much about etiquette.  A very jokey reply to said new member then attributed to a bully by someone... who also extrapolated that those who don't adhere to this convention will also play slowly, be noisy and fail to call anyone through.

Pot... kettle...

Anyhoo.
It's been educational. 

In many ways.

I'm happy to accept that this convention exists for some, but this thread illustrates that it is definitely not widely known or practised
		
Click to expand...

A very good post


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 13, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			from the usga *Golf Etiquette 101.*

Consideration for Other Players

No Disturbance or Distraction

Players should always show consideration for other players on the course and should not disturb their play by moving, talking or making any unnecessary noise. 

Players should ensure that any electronic device taken onto the course does not distract other players. 

On the teeing ground, a player should not tee his ball until it is his turn to play. 

Players should not stand close to or directly behind the ball, or directly behind the hole, when a player is about to play.
		
Click to expand...

Pretty much mirrors part of the etiquette section from the R&A Rules of Golf does it not?


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 13, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			I know my replies on this thread haven't always been serious but two genuine questions for SILH or DfT or anyone else on that side of the discussion/argument. 

1) How do you deal with raised tees? At my place there are a couple that are 4-5 feet above the level of the surrounding ground. Would this fall under times when it was not practicable to stand facing the player?

2) If I am smoking while you tee off and I am facing you but upwind of you, would you rather I move to avoid smoke blowing in your direction or stay in the HNSP?
		
Click to expand...

1} Probably, depending on the size of the tee, pathway to the tee, where my other playing partners are standing, the line of the hole, where the sun/wind/rain/hail/ sleet or snow are coming from and other obvious factors. 
2} Are you being serious?
3} I invented HNSP as a joke and  have a little smile to myself each time someone types it seriously.

[Some of those replies may not be serious]


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 13, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			1} Probably, depending on the size of the tee, pathway to the tee, where my other playing partners are standing, the line of the hole, where the sun/wind/rain/hail/ sleet or snow are coming from and other obvious factors. 
2} Are you being serious?
3} I invented HNSP as a joke and  have a little smile to myself each time someone types it seriously.

[Some of those replies may not be serious]
		
Click to expand...

2) It was a serious question. 

3) I'm only using HSNP as it seems to have become accepted on this thread as the area we are talking about. Personally I preferred the KNOBS zone () suggested by someone on about page 6 or wherever it was


----------



## delc (Jan 13, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			from the usga *Golf Etiquette 101.*

Consideration for Other Players

No Disturbance or Distraction

Players should always show consideration for other players on the course and should not disturb their play by moving, talking or making any unnecessary noise. 

Players should ensure that any electronic device taken onto the course does not distract other players. 

On the teeing ground, a player should not tee his ball until it is his turn to play. 

Players should not stand close to or directly behind the ball, or directly behind the hole, when a player is about to play.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly what the R&A rule book says in the etiquette section. If you are a playing partner in a team or a caddie, you shouldn't stand directly behind your partner's or player's line of swing, as this is a breach of Rule 14-2b (which is why caddies on the LPGA Tour move away after lining up their player before she starts her swing). This does not apply to fellow competitors in stroke play, or opponents in match play.


----------



## Fish (Jan 14, 2014)

delc said:



			If you are a playing partner in a team or a caddie, you shouldn't stand directly behind your partner's .
		
Click to expand...

It doesn't say that at all!


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 14, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			2) It was a serious question.
		
Click to expand...


Oh dear.

OK I shall be patient and polite and try to give you an honest answer.

In 57 years of playing golf I cannot recall one occasion when I was aware of the smoke from a FC's cigarette bothering me.
I have also noticed that very few golfer smoke nowadays.

...another wee smile.


----------



## delc (Jan 14, 2014)

Fish said:



			It doesn't say that at all!
		
Click to expand...

Rule 14-2 Assistance

b. Positioning of Caddie or Partner Behind Ball
A player must not make a stroke with his caddie, his partner or his partner's caddie positioned on or close to an extension of the line of play or line of putt behind the ball. 
Exception: There is no penalty if the playerâ€™s caddie, his partner or his partner's caddie is inadvertently located on or close to an extension of the line of play or line of putt behind the ball.
PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 14-1 or 14-2:
Match play â€“ Loss of hole; Stroke play â€“ Two strokes.

See also decision 14-2/1.  Assistance does not apply prior to making a stroke.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 14, 2014)

Re cigarettes.
I recall a right rules stushey once when a player had a habit of laying his cigarette down at the far side of his ball and in line with the hole.
His opponent claimed it was an aid and that the smoke from the cigarette was also a wind indicator.

It became very messy but I can't remember how it was resolved.


----------



## Fish (Jan 14, 2014)

delc said:



			Rule 14-2 Assistance

b. Positioning of Caddie or Partner Behind Ball
A player must not make a stroke with his caddie, his partner or his partner's caddie positioned on or close to an extension of the line of play or line of putt behind the ball. 
Exception: There is no penalty if the playerâ€™s caddie, his partner or his partner's caddie is inadvertently located on or close to an extension of the line of play or line of putt behind the ball.
PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 14-1 or 14-2:
Match play â€“ Loss of hole; Stroke play â€“ Two strokes.

See also decision 14-2/1.  Assistance does not apply prior to making a stroke.
		
Click to expand...

You can quote as many things as you like, it does not say you cannot stand behind the player, I.E his back!


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 14, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Re cigarettes.
I recall a right rules stushey once when a player had a habit of laying his cigarette down at the far side of his ball and in line with the hole.
His opponent claimed it was an aid and that the smoke from the cigarette was also a wind indicator.

It became very messy but I can't remember how it was resolved.
		
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha! Excellent!


----------



## delc (Jan 14, 2014)

Unless you want to risk being hit by a ball, you wouldn't want to stand in front of the tee. That leaves three basic positions. Facing the player, standing behind the tee, i.e. on his line of play, or behind his back. Personally I don't care which unless it would infringe rule 14-2b and fellow competitors don't distract me by moving or making noise as I play my shot.


----------



## Imurg (Jan 14, 2014)

Fish said:



			You can quote as many things as you like, it does not say you cannot stand behind the player, I.E his back!
		
Click to expand...

This is where half the confusion/arguement has come from on this thread.
Defining the word "behind" either in English of Golfish......


----------



## Fish (Jan 14, 2014)

Imurg said:



			This is where half the confusion/arguement has come from on this thread.
Defining the word "behind" either in English of Golfish......
		
Click to expand...

I don't think there is, or shouldn't be any confusion, some people have simply interpreted that to suit their argument, the word _behind_ when seen quoted in the rules has always been associated to the line of play, behind the tee or behind the ball, so, that means at 3pm of the right handed player teeing off looking down the line/fairway which _can_ be adopted if playing into the sun for spotting. Otherwise you can stand wherever you like, as most if not all of us do!


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 14, 2014)

Imurg said:



			This is where half the confusion/arguement has come from on this thread.
Defining the word "behind" either in English of Golfish......
		
Click to expand...

Or gibberish...


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 14, 2014)

Imurg said:



			This is where half the confusion/arguement has come from on this thread.
Defining the word "behind" either in English of Golfish......
		
Click to expand...

Or Doric.

Yes, huge confusion on 'behind the player', covered much earlier on.


----------



## delc (Jan 14, 2014)

Imurg said:



			This is where half the confusion/arguement has come from on this thread.
Defining the word "behind" either in English of Golfish......
		
Click to expand...

At our course we have several tees where it is only practical to stand facing the player. This has never caused a problem that I am aware of. Also we have several holes that face directly into sun early in the morning or late in the evening. In these cases we often get fellow competitors to stand behind the line to help see where the ball as gone.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 14, 2014)

Fish said:



			I don't think there is, or shouldn't be any confusion, some people have simply interpreted that to suit their argument, the word _behind_ when seen quoted in the rules has always been associated to the line of play, behind the tee or behind the ball, so, that means at 3pm of the right handed player teeing off looking down the line/fairway which _can_ be adopted if playing into the sun for spotting. Otherwise you can stand wherever you like, as most if not all of us do!
		
Click to expand...

As I have said before on this thread, the rules of golf are very careful to use the term "behind the ball" or "on an extension of the line of play", they don't simply say "behind", presumably as that would cause confusion. SilH is also careful to distinguish this in his OP.


----------



## Twire (Jan 14, 2014)

Imurg said:



			This is where half the confusion/arguement has come from on this thread.
Defining the word "behind" either in English of Golfish......
		
Click to expand...


I think the confusion comes with people only reading what they want to see. On several posts I've seen "half quotes" which then takes the original quote out of context, or even gives it a different meaning.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 14, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			As I have said before on this thread, the rules of golf are very careful to use the term "behind the ball" or "on an extension of the line of play", they don't simply say "behind", presumably as that would cause confusion. SilH is also careful to distinguish this in his OP.
		
Click to expand...

...and I actually have absolutely no issue with a FC standing behind my back as I prepare to tee-off - as long as they are a good distance back from me and stay there as I prepare.  

That is not perhaps where I would prefer them to stand (assuming they could) and you know where that is - because some players do fiddle about - with stuff in their pockets, marking cards, their clubs etc whilst waiting - thinking that as they can't be seen by the player they are OK to do this as long as they are quiet - as they try to be and usually are.  But we are all guilty of having had made a noise (accidentally or due uncontrollable natural causes) at an inappropriate moment in a FC prep or swing.  Standing facing the player whenever you can removes the desire to fiddle.


----------



## JamesR (Jan 14, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			They may well be, but my actual message is meant to be â€I don't do silly gamesmanship so don't try it on with me!"
		
Click to expand...

Only kidding


----------



## Hacker Khan (Jan 14, 2014)

Can't help think that anyone thinking of taking up the sport and reading this is thinking, may be not, I'll see if the local tennis club has any beginners lessons...


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 14, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Re cigarettes.
I recall a right rules stushey once when a player had a habit of laying his cigarette down at the far side of his ball and in line with the hole.
His opponent claimed it was an aid and that the smoke from the cigarette was also a wind indicator.

It became very messy but I can't remember how it was resolved.
		
Click to expand...

I have remembered this story and will open a new thread on it as it was quite interesting. sorry Hogan.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 14, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			...and I actually have absolutely no issue with a FC standing behind my back as I prepare to tee-off - as long as they are a good distance back from me and stay there as I prepare.  

That is not perhaps where I would prefer them to stand (assuming they could) and you know where that is - because some players do fiddle about - with stuff in their pockets, marking cards, their clubs etc whilst waiting - thinking that as they can't be seen by the player they are OK to do this as long as they are quiet - as they try to be and usually are.  But we are all guilty of having had made a noise (accidentally or due uncontrollable natural causes) at an inappropriate moment in a FC prep or swing.  Standing facing the player whenever you can removes the desire to fiddle.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah , I realise that from the OP, I was just pointing out, as I have before in this thread, that behind, in the context of the thread, as dictated by your OP, doesn't mean behind the line, otherwise you wouldn't have been so careful as to distinguish. Unfortunately, some have not taken your OP as reference for the position you are talking about.

I also have no issue with your preference of where people stand when you tee off and if I was in the wrong place would happily move for you.

My only issue with this thread was the insistence from some that I and others are somehow practicing bad etiquette if we don't stand in front of a player when he tees off. But then I have said that as well previously in this thread as well.


----------



## Robobum (Jan 14, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			....  
.  Standing facing the player whenever you can removes the desire to fiddle.
		
Click to expand...

How the hell does that work then.!?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 14, 2014)

Robobum said:



			How the hell does that work then.!?
		
Click to expand...

Because when I walk to the side of the tee facing my FC (when circumstances permit) I tend to take the club I am going to use with me so won't be rummaging in my bag getting my club; I am away from my bag so won't be undoing zips getting sweets or anything else out; I won't be pulling a jersey off etc. In fact I will simply adhere to our agreed etiquette of standing still and keeping quiet - actually doing *nothing *while my FC tees off.


----------



## MadAdey (Jan 14, 2014)

I agree that people need to show good etiquette and be respectful of the player teeing off. But someone with there hand in there pocket is going to put you off? Come on, we play this game in the outdoors where you have wildlife making noise all the time. Others players on different holes chatting and rattling their bags about. Do not get me wrong making noise lie they do on Happy Gilmore is not good but I do not find little noises like people shuffling to be annoying.


----------



## vkurup (Jan 14, 2014)

Something tells me that this thread will be an 'Eastender'....   

Everyone is saying the same things again and again and making no progress.  Some comments are being rehashed, rewritten and sometimes rerere-written by someone else..   and before we know it it will go past its 2000 comment.. 

I am switching off..


----------



## CMAC (Jan 14, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			...and I actually have absolutely no issue with a FC standing behind my back as I prepare to tee-off - as long as they are a good distance back from me and stay there as I prepare.  

That is not perhaps where I would prefer them to stand (assuming they could) and you know where that is - because some players do fiddle about - with stuff in their pockets, marking cards, their clubs etc whilst waiting - thinking that as they can't be seen by the player they are OK to do this as long as they are quiet - as they try to be and usually are.  But we are all guilty of having had made a noise (accidentally or due uncontrollable natural causes) at an inappropriate moment in a FC prep or swing.  *Standing facing the player whenever you can removes the desire to fiddle*.
		
Click to expand...

there is an exception to every rule :smirk:

[video=youtube_share;MVZfOvxINd8]http://youtu.be/MVZfOvxINd8[/video]


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 14, 2014)

So let me get this straight,
In cricket the wicket keeper stands behind the ball


JOKING!!!


----------



## JamesR (Jan 14, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			So let me get this straight,
In cricket the wicket keeper stands behind the ball


JOKING!!!
		
Click to expand...

Well that depends...is the cricket meaning of "behind" the same as the golf meaning? :lol:


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 14, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			So let me get this straight,
In cricket the wicket keeper stands behind the ball


JOKING!!!
		
Click to expand...

If he's on the English Ashes Team, he stands 6" to the right of the ball when he fails to catch it


----------



## CMAC (Jan 14, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			So let me get this straight,
In cricket the wicket keeper stands behind the ball


JOKING!!!
		
Click to expand...

isn't he in front of the ball coming towards him :smirk:


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jan 14, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			So let me get this straight,
In cricket the wicket keeper stands behind the ball


JOKING!!!
		
Click to expand...

No, he stands behind the wicket, with the batsman being in front of the wicket. What cricket has to do with this I don't know.


----------



## Robobum (Jan 14, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Because when I walk to the side of the tee facing my FC (when circumstances permit) I tend to take the club I am going to use with me so won't be rummaging in my bag getting my club; I am away from my bag so won't be undoing zips getting sweets or anything else out; I won't be pulling a jersey off etc. In fact I will simply adhere to our agreed etiquette of standing still and keeping quiet - actually doing *nothing *while my FC tees off.
		
Click to expand...

There seems to be an awful lot of scenarios that have the potential to disturb you during your shot.

I think such fragility of mind should be the first thing I'd address. This is making Monty look like someone with cast iron concentration levels!!


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 14, 2014)

Robobum said:



			There seems to be an awful lot of scenarios that have the potential to disturb you during your shot.

I think such fragility of mind should be the first thing I'd address. This is making Monty look like someone with cast iron concentration levels!! 

Click to expand...

Don't forget we are not talking about your ability to shut things put and not get distracted and I also am not that bothered by most things - we're talking about your FC - and you may not know how sensitive your FC is.  I've got a mate who will step back from a shot if he hears a car in the distance heading along a road skirting the course - or if he hears cyclists on the road chatting as they go past - or even just going past he stops in case they start talking 

Anyway - all of what you say is absolutely correct - but you can't deny that you are more likely to fiddle around if you can't be seen by your FC on the tee than if you can be seen by him.  That's all in respect of fiddling about.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Don't forget we are not talking about your ability to shut things put and not get distracted - we're talking about your FC - and you may not know how sensitive your FC is.  I've got a mate who will step back from a shot if he hears a car in the distance heading along a road skirting the course - or if he hears cyclists on the road chatting as they go past.
		
Click to expand...


He must struggle to get a round in under 5 hours if he steps back from every single noise.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 14, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He must struggle to get a round in under 5 hours if he steps back from every single noise.
		
Click to expand...

Not every shot obviously - but it can be a bit painful...true


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Jan 14, 2014)

Surely then the prevalent etiquette in this situation is for him to hurry up and stop holding up the course, ahead of where his FC stands? 

On a side note, can you rank matters of etiquette? I assume you can, but I'm probably (normally) wrong.


----------



## cookelad (Jan 14, 2014)

Can this be correct?

I've just clicked to show all threads since "beginning" sorted by replies and this fairly innocuous looking thread has had the most replies ever in "The Lounge"


----------



## Twire (Jan 14, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I've got a mate who will step back from a shot if he hears a car in the distance heading along a road skirting the course - or if he hears cyclists on the road chatting as they go past - or even just going past he stops in case they start talking 

Click to expand...

Aye, we have a fella like that at our place........... he struggles to find anyone who will play with him.


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 14, 2014)

cookelad said:



			Can this be correct?

I've just clicked to show all threads since "beginning" sorted by replies and this fairly innocuous looking thread has had the most replies ever in "The Lounge"
		
Click to expand...

Over 1110 replies...Mostly along the lines of

Yes, you should...
No, you shouldn't ..
and
He's behind you!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Not every shot obviously - but it can be a bit painful...true
		
Click to expand...


I'm going to guess he also holds people up and doesn't let people through and will most certainly tut and blame others for him being unable to focus and concentrate

I'm also going to guess that his handicap is around 10-15


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 14, 2014)

he's behind you.......

Oh no he isn't.


----------



## NuShooz (Jan 15, 2014)

After reading this thread can someone kill me please? but please executioner - can you stand to the side and not within my peripheral vision as it puts me off my thoughts of impending doom...


----------



## hovis (Jan 15, 2014)

113 pages on where to stand!  Get a life guy's.

Have any of you even kissed a girl


----------



## JamesR (Jan 15, 2014)

hovis said:



			113 pages on where to stand!  Get a life guy's.

Have any of you even kissed a girl 

Click to expand...

Yes, & I liked it!








Not so sure about her though


----------



## CMAC (Jan 15, 2014)

Post #1110 makes this whole thread entirely worthwhile:whoo:


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm going to guess he also holds people up and doesn't let people through and will most certainly tut and blame others for him being unable to focus and concentrate

I'm also going to guess that his handicap is around 10-15
		
Click to expand...

Actually he is one of the most liked, respectful and courteous members of the golf club - and he is ALWAYS suggesting that we let players through - even when we don't really need to to.  He's off 20.  And when putting he fiddles about making sure his alignment mark on his ball is 'just so'.  But for all that we all really like him.  And he is VERY particular about etiquette - he's pulled me up on quite a few occasions for such as talking a little loudly when someone on an adjoining fairway is playing - and that is fine


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 15, 2014)

For me the thread developed:

- from me believing and stating strongly that there is etiquette associated with where you stand at the tee; 
- to me realising with much surprise  that most do not follow the etiquette;
- to me realising with even greater surprise that most had not heard of the etiquette never mind adhere to it;
- to debating with most others whether it was etiquette at all;
- to whether etiquette can become obsolete due to changes in the game and/or equipment and courses;
- to whether etiquette can be determined to be irrelevant by players and hence ignored; 
- to me continuing to believe what I was taught - regardless of what the rest of you think;
- to me determining to continue to teach that as the appropriate etiquette - but to not argue with non-believers;
- and to me appreciating the delights of post 1110;
- and wondering whether or not this specific subject has EVER been discussed at this length ANYWHERE else before - EVER.


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			For me the thread developed:

- from me believing and stating strongly that there is etiquette associated with where you stand at the tee; 
- to me realising with much surprise  that most do not follow the etiquette;
- to me realising with even greater surprise that most had not heard of the etiquette never mind adhere to it;
- to debating with most others whether it was etiquette at all;
- to whether etiquette can become obsolete due to changes in the game and/or equipment and courses;
- to whether etiquette can be determined to be irrelevant by players and hence ignored; 
- to me continuing to believe what I was taught - regardless of what the rest of you think;
- to me determining to continue to teach that as the appropriate etiquette - but to not argue with non-believers;
- and to me appreciating the delights of post 1110;
- *and wondering whether or not this specific subject has EVER been discussed at this length ANYWHERE else before - EVER*.
		
Click to expand...

Probably not, but you are still failing to grasp this simple concept, that etiquette is determined by what the majority wish to do and what the majority find to be acceptable practise.  The fact that something was believed to be an important point of etiquette years ago doesn't mean it will remain so forever.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 15, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			Probably not, but you are still failing to grasp this simple concept, *that etiquette is determined by what the majority wish to do and what the majority find to be acceptable practise.*  The fact that something was believed to be an important point of etiquette years ago doesn't mean it will remain so forever.
		
Click to expand...

...and were I to ask about how *this *could ever be determined for any rule of etiquette - when continuing to observe the rule causes nobody any problems, then the debate continues.  But I am not going to.  For therein lies the desolation of Smaug and a black hole from which there is no escape (if there ever could be escape)


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			...and were I to ask about how *this *could ever be determined for any rule of etiquette - when continuing to observe the rule causes nobody any problems, then the debate continues.  But I am not going to.  For therein lies the desolation of Smaug and a black hole from which there is no escape (if there ever could be escape)
		
Click to expand...

Very, very simple,

For example, Safety - Players should not play until the players in front are out of range.  A point that the vast majority of golfers ensure each and every time they play.  It's what we do therefore it is a point of current etiquette.

See? It's not really difficult when you remove personal feeling from it and actually think about it.


----------



## TheJezster (Jan 15, 2014)

Well, I was away snowboarding last week and following this thread loosely whilst over there.  I've quite enjoyed it, missed large parts out but generally kept up with it..

From my point of view, i think the question is whether this was ever actually etiquette in the true sense of the word.  What I mean by that is that it's obvious SILH and a few others were taught this years ago, but I'm not sure whether this was borne of true etiquette or a misunderstanding of CADDIE protocol and simply developed from there.  Either way, a small minority were taught this when learning so this cant be disputed.  As far as THEY are concerned it IS correct etiquette.  No point in arguing about this, it's what they were taught so they believe it to be correct.

What we dont know for sure is whether it actually was etiquette for golfers once upon a time, rather than just caddies.  It MAY have been, but I guess we wont ever know.

I think what everyone does agree on though is that you should generally keep still and quiet when your partner(s) tee off.  This is just common sense.  Everything else is just nonsense (well apart from post 1110 of course) ;-)


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			For me the thread developed:

- from me believing and stating strongly that there is etiquette associated with where you stand at the tee; 
- to me realising with much surprise  that most do not follow the etiquette;
- to me realising with even greater surprise that most had not heard of the etiquette never mind adhere to it;
- to debating with most others whether it was etiquette at all;
- to whether etiquette can become obsolete due to changes in the game and/or equipment and courses;
- to whether etiquette can be determined to be irrelevant by players and hence ignored; 
- to me continuing to believe what I was taught - regardless of what the rest of you think;
- *to me determining to continue to teach that as the appropriate etiquette - but to not argue with non-believers*;
- and to me appreciating the delights of post 1110;
- and wondering whether or not this specific subject has EVER been discussed at this length ANYWHERE else before - EVER.
		
Click to expand...

Carry on practising and teaching what you wish, but I think you may have to revise your assertion that you should stand facing the player's front - *as that is where everyone would want you to stand*, as the poll has made clear.

And you know how I feel about describing non-believers as inconsiderate, so of course you won't be doing that in the future...:thup:


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 15, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			Carry on practising and teaching what you wish, but I think you may have to revise your assertion that you should stand facing the player's front - *as that is where everyone would want you to stand*, as the poll has made clear.

And you know how I feel about describing non-believers as inconsiderate, so of course you won't be doing that in the future...:thup:
		
Click to expand...

Other than when I thought it was commonly held etiquette I have not said that you *must* stand facing your FC and I do not consider non-believers as being inconsiderate. I might ask that non-believers respect that some folks they play with might believe.  

And in general @TheJezster's post above encapsulates where I stand on the matter - at least he seems to understand (though not all posts have been nonsense )


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 15, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			Very, very simple,

For example, Safety - Players should not play until the players in front are out of range.  A point that the vast majority of golfers ensure each and every time they play.  It's what we do therefore it is a point of current etiquette.

See? It's not really difficult when you remove personal feeling from it and actually think about it.
		
Click to expand...

What I meant was - how can anyone determine if the majority are happy for a point of etiquette to lapse?  Who are you asking - and what about the constituency that you don't ask?  

And as etiquette is largely a matter of manners and respect for your FC, is it not just easier to continue to follow established rules of etiquette until the likes of the R&A tell us that a rule is obsolete and no longer applies - especially if following the rule is easy and not disruptive.  That is surely the most considerate default position for any player in respect of his FC.


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan;979801[B said:
			
		


			]Other than when I thought it was commonly held etiquette I have not said that you *must* stand facing your FC and I do not consider non-believers as being inconsiderate[/B]. I might ask that non-believers respect that some folks they play with might believe.  

And in general @TheJezster's post above encapsulates where I stand on the matter - at least he seems to understand (though not all posts have been nonsense )
		
Click to expand...

You have softened your view since you started this thread.

As have I...
I have always done my best to be considerate about where and how I stand, and because those I play with have not objected, have considered that always standing on the cart path side is fine (that's where pretty much where everyone I play with stands)

However in the future,  knowing how much it matters to some people, I shall* proactively *enquire as to the preference of others at the start of the round. And if they want me in Hogan's Spot, that is where i shall be.

So maybe we are not too far apart after all SLIH.
Maybe we'll always be on the same side (of the tee)...:thup:


----------



## Slime (Jan 15, 2014)

Surely, if over 85% of golfers do something in a particular manner without causing upset to fellow players, and against the accepted ettiquette of the time, they have created a newer, more modern ettiquette ................. as in this instance.


*Slime*.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 15, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			You have softened your view since you started this thread.

As have I...
I have always done my best to be considerate about where and how I stand, and because those I play with have not objected, have considered that always standing on the cart path side is fine (that's where pretty much where everyone I play with stands)

However in the future,  knowing how much it matters to some people, I shall* proactively *enquire as to the preference of others at the start of the round. And if they want me in Hogan's Spot, that is where i shall be.

So maybe we are not too far apart after all SLIH.
Maybe we'll always be on the same side (of the tee)...:thup:
		
Click to expand...

Thankyou @NorthMs.  Yes I absolutely have softened my position - I took a strong position as I thought it was a 'universally accepted' point of etiquette.  I now know differently as it's not even considered etiquette by most...however I will continue to believe what I believed back then despite what is said - I do no harm 

And to be honest - you really don't need to ask folks before you play - believe me.  No-body has EVER asked me to move from DfT's HNSP.  You'll be OK.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 15, 2014)

Slime said:



			Surely, if over 85% of golfers do something in a particular manner without causing upset to fellow players, and against the accepted ettiquette of the time, they have created a newer, more modern ettiquette ................. as in this instance.


*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...

So tough on the 15% who are upset when it costs nothing for you to avoid causing that upset.

(and I'm not saying it is that upsetting - it's the principle)

Ah well.


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			What I meant was - how can anyone determine if the majority are happy for a point of etiquette to lapse?
		
Click to expand...

It's not a case of that.  See whatever the majority are doing? then that is the current etiquette.  If the majority were happy with standing where you think people should stand then guess what? That's where they would be standing.

Do you want me to draw you a series of pictures?


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			So tough on the 15% who are upset when it costs nothing for you to avoid causing that upset.

(and I'm not saying it is that upsetting - it's the principle)

Ah well.
		
Click to expand...

So the 85% who aren't happy with it, who want to stand elsewhere, should just put up with it rather than upset you?


----------



## john0 (Jan 15, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			Do you want me to draw you a series of pictures?
		
Click to expand...

Oh not the ball flight laws again I hope


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 15, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			It's not a case of that.  See whatever the majority are doing? then that is the current etiquette.  If the majority were happy with standing where you think people should stand then guess what? That's where they would be standing.

Do you want me to draw you a series of pictures?
		
Click to expand...

I wouldn't mind seeing a pic - been looking to see one of this "universally accepted" position for a while now


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 15, 2014)

john0 said:



			Oh not the ball flight laws again I hope 

Click to expand...

Not me, I don't understand them


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 15, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			It's not a case of that.  See whatever the majority are doing? then that is the current etiquette.  If the majority were happy with standing where you think people should stand then guess what? That's where they would be standing.

Do you want me to draw you a series of pictures?
		
Click to expand...

But stevie - *who* are this majority - *who* are you asking?  Our game isn't confined to groups of guys playing their own and a few other tracks - it is a global game - and rules of etiquette are (I believe) global.  How do you _see_ what the majority are doing? If you could then great and I'd agree - but you can't.  

Why change etiquette if it does not *need* to be changed.  Rules of Etiquette evolved over many years and they evolved for many good reasons.  

Off top of my head I can't think of *any* rule of etiquette that has been discarded over the time I have played - closest I guess would be in respect of stymies and that was well before my time. 

What makes you think that today we (as a generation of golfers) are in any better a position than previous generations to discard any rule of etiquette simply on the grounds that many don't adhere to it.  Lot's of folk doing something wrong doesn't make it right - and I'm talking about etiquette in general here and not where we stand when teeing off.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Off top of my head I can't think of *any* rule of etiquette that has been discarded over the time I have played - closest I guess would be in respect of stymies and that was well before my time.
		
Click to expand...

Neither can I. 

Mind you even in the days of stymies [explanation for the young team....  a snookered putt in the days before marking your ball became a rule.] it was considered jolly bad form to lay up and then blooter your opponents ball into the next county.

My grandfather was an expert at using check spin on putts to spin around or lay a stymie. Now there is a skill we won't see again.


----------



## Slime (Jan 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Why change etiquette if it does not *need* to be changed.  Rules of Etiquette evolved over many years and they evolved for many good reasons.  

Off top of my head I can't think of *any* rule of etiquette that has been discarded over the time I have played - closest I guess would be in respect of stymies and that was well before my time.
		
Click to expand...

No-one sets out to deliberately change etiquette, it just, in certain instances, morphs over time.
Oh, and I don't believe it is a rule, more a generally acceoted code of practice.
*
Etiquette* *is a code of behaviour that delineates expectations for social behaviour according to contemporary norms* *within a society, class or group.
*
*Slime*.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 15, 2014)

Slime said:



*Etiquette* *is a code of behaviour that delineates expectations for social behaviour according to contemporary norms* *within a society, class or group.
*
*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...

Ahh right.........Is that why there are so many oiks at Royal Ascot now.

[Oops Horse racing I mean of course!]


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Thankyou @NorthMs.  Yes I absolutely have softened my position - I took a strong position as I thought it was a 'universally accepted' point of etiquette.  I now know differently as it's not even considered etiquette by most...however I will continue to believe what I believed back then despite what is said - I do no harm 

And to be honest - you really don't need to ask folks before you play - believe me.  No-body has EVER asked me to move from DfT's HNSP.  You'll be OK.
		
Click to expand...

I do need to either check or else get everyone in the 4 ball to agree. Otherwise I'll be standing on the far side of tee from the other 2 on 10 out of 18 holes!
I'm pretty relaxed about where others stand when I'm teeing off, but I don't want one left, one right and one behind. Everyone on the one side please,wherever that may be....


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 15, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			I do need to either check or else get everyone in the 4 ball to agree. Otherwise I'll be standing on the far side of tee from the other 2 on 10 out of 18 holes!
I'm pretty relaxed about where others stand when I'm teeing off, but I don't want one left, one right and one behind. Everyone on the one side please,wherever that may be....
		
Click to expand...

Well said sir.
Please remember that the HNSP [wee smile] is generally not used on tees where it is not appropriate so you should not have any bother complying with your other playing partners.


----------



## john0 (Jan 15, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



*Well said sir.*

Click to expand...


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			But stevie - *who* are this majority - *who* are you asking?  Our game isn't confined to groups of guys playing their own and a few other tracks - it is a global game - and rules of etiquette are (I believe) global.  How do you _see_ what the majority are doing? If you could then great and I'd agree - but you can't.  

Why change etiquette if it does not *need* to be changed.  Rules of Etiquette evolved over many years and they evolved for many good reasons.  

Off top of my head I can't think of *any* rule of etiquette that has been discarded over the time I have played - closest I guess would be in respect of stymies and that was well before my time. 

What makes you think that today we (as a generation of golfers) are in any better a position than previous generations to discard any rule of etiquette simply on the grounds that many don't adhere to it.  Lot's of folk doing something wrong doesn't make it right - and I'm talking about etiquette in general here and not where we stand when teeing off.
		
Click to expand...

Well for a start how about the (vast ) majority of people on this forum, that's an indication for a start.
Correct, it's a global game.  If people in for example Australia still wish to stand where you think is correct then that is up to them.  The simple fact of the matter is they are not rules or laws, they are simply what is deemed to be best or polite practise at the time.  I will reiterate and put it in big letters for you:

If the majority of people wished to stand, where you suggest it is of vital importance, while people played their tee shot, then they would and it would be current etiquette.  It isn't. 

No one has turned round one day and said 'do you know what? lets stand somewhere else while our PPs tee off' - things evolve, you are aware of the concept of evolution I presume?  No rule of etiquette has been discarded - simply because it never was a rule, simply etiquette.  Over time players decided it wasn't necessarily ideal to stand where you suggest they should.

Do you ever go into a shop and pick up and examine an item that you have no intention of buying?  Why? You are aware I presume that in Victorian Britain this was seen as particularly poor etiquette.


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 15, 2014)

Had some correspondence on this with a golf commentator and asked the question  
"Why do pro's and caddies use the right hand side of the tee please?"
"To stand facing right-handed golfers."

"So is it bad etiquette to not stand facing a golfer for us mere mortals ?"
"Not really bad etiquette. Just kind of expected. But you wouldn't necessarily move for left-handers."


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 15, 2014)

john0 said:





Click to expand...

Is Mimms not a Sir then.........very sorry.


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 15, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Had some correspondence on this with a golf commentator and asked the question  
"Why do pro's and caddies use the right hand side of the tee please?"
"To stand facing right-handed golfers."

"So is it bad etiquette to not stand facing a golfer for us mere mortals ?"
"Not really bad etiquette. Just kind of expected. But you wouldn't necessarily move for left-handers."
		
Click to expand...

End the thread..END THE THREAD NOW!!! It's not going to get any better than this. Everyone wins.. Party time.. Open a Party 7 and dance the night away to The Nolans and Showaddywaddy................


----------



## Twire (Jan 15, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Had some correspondence on this with a golf commentator and asked the question  
"Why do pro's and caddies use the right hand side of the tee please?"
"To stand facing right-handed golfers."

"So is it bad etiquette to not stand facing a golfer for us mere mortals ?"
"Not really bad etiquette. Just kind of expected. But you wouldn't necessarily move for left-handers."
		
Click to expand...


You keep throwing a curve ball by mentioning pro's and caddies. Caddies will always stand in front of their pro because they will be discussing club selection etc. We don't have caddies, so no need to worry about where we stand.


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 15, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Is Mimms not a Sir then.........very sorry.
		
Click to expand...

I'm female, which considering how attitudes have changed over the years, could explain why I see etiquette as something that can change!
(Having once been told that I couldn't go into the Spike Bar for a cold drink after a round of golf, but would have to take off my shoes and have my cup of tea with the other ladies in The Lounge. 
I didn't want a cup of tea- i wanted a beer, but i realised that if I told the chap that, he might well have a fit)


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 15, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Open a Party 7 and dance the night away to *The Nolans and Showaddywaddy*................

Click to expand...

That, Sir, might just well be the most offensive thing that anyone has written on this thread! :thup:


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 15, 2014)

Twire said:



			You keep throwing a curve ball by mentioning pro's and caddies. Caddies will always stand in front of their pro because they will be discussing club selection etc. We don't have caddies, so no need to worry about where we stand.
		
Click to expand...

Re read , second question refers to us mere mortals. And anyway whats wrong with not taking a lead from what the professional tour does ( slow play not withstanding )


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 15, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Re read , second question refers to us mere mortals. And anyway whats wrong with not taking a lead from what the professional tour does ( slow play not withstanding ) 

Click to expand...

This thread seems to be the only thread in the history of The Lounge when posters do not slavishly follow 'what the Pro's do'.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 15, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			That, Sir, might just well be the most offensive thing that anyone has written on this thread! :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Awfully sorry I should have known better.


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 15, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			This thread seems to be the only thread in the history of The Lounge when posters do not slavishly follow 'what the Pro's do'.
		
Click to expand...

:thup:


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 15, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			Well for a start how about the (vast ) majority of people on this forum, that's an indication for a start.
Correct, it's a global game.  If people in for example Australia still wish to stand where you think is correct then that is up to them.  The simple fact of the matter is they are not rules or laws, they are simply what is deemed to be best or polite practise at the time.  I will reiterate and put it in big letters for you:

If the majority of people wished to stand, where you suggest it is of vital importance, while people played their tee shot, then they would and it would be current etiquette.  It isn't. 

No one has turned round one day and said 'do you know what? lets stand somewhere else while our PPs tee off' - things evolve, you are aware of the concept of evolution I presume?  No rule of etiquette has been discarded - simply because it never was a rule, simply etiquette.  Over time players decided it wasn't necessarily ideal to stand where you suggest they should.

Do you ever go into a shop and pick up and examine an item that you have no intention of buying?  Why? You are aware I presume that in Victorian Britain this was seen as particularly poor etiquette.
		
Click to expand...

You will have noticed that in my previous post I was talking about etiquette in general.  And so again I make the general point - I see no particular need for any rule of etiquette to be discarded unless the context in which the rule came about has disappeared from the game or has at least changed significantly.


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 15, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Awfully sorry I should have known better.
		
Click to expand...

Not you calling me Sir (quite used to it on here!)

My comment was directed at bluewolf suggesting we dance to showaddywaddy!
(Bay City Rollers for me...)


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			You will have noticed that in my previous post I was talking about etiquette in general.  And so again I make the general point - I see no particular need for any rule of etiquette to be discarded unless the context in which the rule came about has disappeared from the game or has at least changed significantly.
		
Click to expand...

Well that's the way you see it, the majority see it differently.


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			You will have noticed that in my previous post I was talking about etiquette in general.  And so again I make the general point - I see no particular need for any rule of etiquette to be discarded unless the context in which the rule came about has disappeared from the game or has at least changed significantly.
		
Click to expand...

Rule? What rule? I was under the impression that Etiquette was defined as a guideline, not a rule? If it was a Rule, then we'd all still be following it or getting punished for not doing so. To my knowledge, No one has ever been punished for not following the HNSP (?)


----------



## CMAC (Jan 15, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			This thread seems to be the only thread in the history of The Lounge when posters do not slavishly follow 'what the Pro's do'.
		
Click to expand...

from what I've seen numerous times the pro's stand where they can as they are usually 'guided' onto a tee and surrounded by spectators so usually not a lot of room. They stand still and quiet but in lots of very different places.

You realise we will all be focusing on this now at tournaments as opposed to what club, what shot and what swing :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 15, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			End the thread..END THE THREAD NOW!!! It's not going to get any better than this. Everyone wins.. Party time.. Open a Party 7 and dance the night away to The Nolans and Showaddywaddy................

Click to expand...

 You need the Mavericks to dance the night away, I don't know who played The Last Post.


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 15, 2014)

CMAC said:



			from what I've seen numerous times the pro's stand where they can as they are usually 'guided' onto a tee and surrounded by spectators so usually not a lot of room. They stand still and quiet but in lots of very different places.

You realise we will all be focusing on this now at tournaments as opposed to what club, what shot and what swing :rofl: :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

It's all I'm going to be concentrating on when it kicks off in Abu Dhabi in the morning....


----------



## User20205 (Jan 15, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Rule? What rule? I was under the impression that Etiquette was defined as a guideline, not a rule? If it was a Rule, then we'd all still be following it or getting punished for not doing so. To my knowledge, No one has ever been punished for not following the HNSP (?)
		
Click to expand...

This thread is punishment enough !!!!!

I promise to conform if you make it go away!!


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 15, 2014)

williamalex1 said:



			You need the Mavericks to dance the night away, I don't know who played The Last Post.
		
Click to expand...

Surely the theme tune to this thread should be Elton John's *I'm Still Standing.*
Maybe we could get a remix with lyrics of I'm Standing Still.


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 15, 2014)

therod said:



			This thread is punishment enough !!!!!

I promise to conform if you make it go away!!
		
Click to expand...

You are of course correct, but you can't stop reading it can you? It's like a super slo-mo car crash in which no one gets injured, but lots of people get ever so slightly frustrated and just constantly wonder round in circles.... This what it must be like to watch Big Brother or one of the other gutter reality shows...


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 15, 2014)

williamalex1 said:



			You need the Mavericks to dance the night away, I don't know who played The Last Post.
		
Click to expand...

It was during the Mavericks that I decided I needed carnal knowledge of my current wife oo:


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 15, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			Not you calling me Sir (quite used to it on here!)

My comment was directed at bluewolf suggesting we dance to showaddywaddy!
(Bay City Rollers for me...)
		
Click to expand...

I gathered that................... eventually!!


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 15, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			It was during the Mavericks that I decided I needed carnal knowledge of my current wife oo:
		
Click to expand...

Did your Seniorita sway a bit then!!


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 15, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Did your Seniorita sway a bit then!!
		
Click to expand...

Jiggly in places


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 15, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			Surely the theme tune to this thread should be Elton John's *I'm Still Standing.*
Maybe we could get a remix with lyrics of I'm Standing Still.
		
Click to expand...

 Or Move it by [the] Cliff


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 15, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Did your Seniorita sway a bit then!!
		
Click to expand...

 "now that she has gone and I am free and she can't do a thing to me".


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 15, 2014)

Come Together..John Lennon


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 15, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			It was during the Mavericks that I decided I needed carnal knowledge of my current wife oo:
		
Click to expand...

so it was it a raisin.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 15, 2014)

Come on guys. If you keep going off topic the thread will be closed. 

On second thoughts, has anyone got an opinion on the hole being made bigger to prevent the yips? Now that conversation should get it shut down. :lol:


----------



## Slime (Jan 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			You will have noticed that in my previous post I was talking about etiquette in general.  And so again I make the general point - I see no particular need for any *rule of etiquette* to be discarded unless the context in which *the rule* came about has disappeared from the game or has at least changed significantly.
		
Click to expand...

There are no strict *rules* of etiquette per se. 
It is more a *customary* *code of polite behaviour* or an *unwritten code of practice* followed by members of any of certain                professions or groups and as such is more likely to evolve over time in a natural manner. 
As the vast majority of golfers who voted on this poll "_don't care _(where PP's stand)_ as long as they are quiet, still and out of the way"_ that is the forum etiquette.
Well, it is as far as I'm concerned .

*Slime*.


----------



## Fish (Jan 15, 2014)

Slime said:



			There are no strict *rules* of etiquette per se. 
It is more a *customary* *code of polite behaviour* or an *unwritten code of practice* followed by members of any of certain                professions or groups and as such is more likely to evolve over time in a natural manner. 
As the vast majority of golfers who voted on this poll "_don't care _(where PP's stand)_ as long as they are quiet, still and out of the way"_ that is the forum etiquette.
Well, it is as far as I'm concerned .

*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 15, 2014)

Fish said:



View attachment 8806

Click to expand...

There have never been any Rules Of Etiquette, only advice.

The wording of the poll could only lead to one answer [as the poster well knew].

If it was worded that  'I choose to follow tradition and the advice and practices of the R&A and The European Tour.'
How many would have voted for that.


----------



## Crow (Jan 15, 2014)

This thread could be used to find out who on the forum most needs to get a life.

All that needs to be done is for someone (who needs to get a life) to tally up the number of posts made by each forummer and whoever has the most takes the honour.


----------



## richart (Jan 15, 2014)

williamalex1 said:



			You need the Mavericks to dance the night away, I don't know who played The Last Post.
		
Click to expand...

 or the Motors for dancing the night away.:thup:


----------



## MashieNiblick (Jan 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Why change etiquette if it does not *need* to be changed.  Rules of Etiquette evolved over many years and they evolved for many good reasons.  

Off top of my head I can't think of *any* rule of etiquette that has been discarded over the time I have played - closest I guess would be in respect of stymies and that was well before my time.
		
Click to expand...

Interesting and enjoyable thread (but far far too long) and not felt the need to add to it but I have to say that etiquette has changed in respect of the standing of single players. Once upon a time they had no standing and had to stand aside to let others through. Now they don't have to and indeed should be waved through if they play more quickly. Times (and attitudes) change.


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 15, 2014)

Crow said:



			This thread could be used to find out who on the forum most needs to get a life.

All that needs to be done is for someone (who needs to get a life) to tally up the number of posts made by each forummer and whoever has the most takes the honour.
		
Click to expand...

I'm currently in 7th place with 44 posts against SLH who has over 100. I really must get out more.
(and no i didn't add them up- you get this info if you click on "replies" in main Lounge page)


----------



## Crow (Jan 15, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			I'm currently in 7th place with 44 posts against SLH who has over 100. I really must get out more.
(and no i didn't add them up- you get this info if you click on "replies" in main Lounge page)
		
Click to expand...

Neat, you learn something new every day.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 15, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			I'm currently in 7th place with 44 posts against SLH who has over 100. I really must get out more.
(and no i didn't add them up- you get this info if you click on "replies" in main Lounge page)
		
Click to expand...

And how many people have now gone to the lounge and clicked on "replies"? (I have)


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 15, 2014)

richart said:



			or the Motors for dancing the night away.:thup:
		
Click to expand...

You will have to ask Stevie if that would have had the same effect on his carnal knowledge.see post 1176


----------



## Fish (Jan 15, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			And how many people have now gone to the lounge and clicked on "replies"? (I have)
		
Click to expand...

I've tried but can't find it.


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 15, 2014)

Fish said:



			I've tried but can't find it.
		
Click to expand...

Hit the actual number right next to where it tells you how many replies it has had. I'm in 8th with 39 now!!!


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 15, 2014)

Fish said:



			I've tried but can't find it.
		
Click to expand...

Here you go Fish.......


----------



## bluewolf (Jan 15, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			Here you go Fish.......
View attachment 8808

Click to expand...

Smartarse!!!


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 15, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			Here you go Fish.......
View attachment 8808

Click to expand...

Very impressive!

Shall we now educate those who think this thread is nearly 100 pages long, on how to make it a mere (!) 30 pages...?


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 15, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Smartarse!!!

Click to expand...

My skills with CTRL/Print Screen and "paste" in Paint are unequalled anywhere in the developed world.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 15, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			Very impressive!

Shall we now educate those who think this thread is nearly 100 pages long, on how to make it a mere (!) 30 pages...?
		
Click to expand...

No, no, no, no, no!!!! Where's the fun in that?  Although it wasn't that long ago that I learned that you could change it.


----------



## Fish (Jan 15, 2014)

Cheers, never knew about that facility :thup:

11th, out of the top 10


----------



## Imurg (Jan 15, 2014)

I'm surprised I only have 21.......

sorry! 22...


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 15, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Rule? What rule? I was under the impression that Etiquette was defined as a guideline, not a rule? If it was a Rule, then we'd all still be following it or getting punished for not doing so. To my knowledge, No one has ever been punished for not following the HNSP (?)
		
Click to expand...

Oh please - I deliberately made the point in the above that I wasn't talking about standing at DfTs HNSP - as reference to that in any discussion on rules (or guidelines or whatever you want to call them that you are happy with) of etiquette with HNSP mentioned won't go anywhere as the HNSP is not recognised by most here as having anything to do with etiquette.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 15, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			I'm currently in 7th place with 44 posts against SLH who has over 100. I really must get out more.
(and no i didn't add them up- you get this info if you click on "replies" in main Lounge page)
		
Click to expand...

just of 100 out of about 1200 in total - well I had to do something to stand my ground when assailed on just about all sides.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 15, 2014)

Anyway - in my mind the issue has actually evolved to one about etiquette - and the circumstances under which aspects of etiquette are or can be dropped - if ever.  Who decides and how do we find out or get told about it.  For instance if some reason players decided it was OK to stand looking down the line of a FCs tee shot as they weren't bothered - and passed this on to newbies - it's only etiquette after all - no penalty - and so the newbie adopts the same practice and then plays with golfers who still recognise that etiquette - arguments and embarrassment - what a mess.


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 15, 2014)

Good grief, it's like constantly trying to explain the same point to a 6 year old who is being difficult.  When you are finally forced, even though you don't want to, to just say

*Because!*


----------



## Allanxyz (Jan 15, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			There have never been any Rules Of Etiquette, only advice.

The wording of the poll could only lead to one answer [as the poster well knew].

If it was worded that  'I choose to follow tradition and the advice and practices of the R&A and The European Tour.'
How many would have voted for that.
		
Click to expand...

The only quote I've seen from the R&A states something along the lines of not standing on the line of the shot or behind the hole.... So if people did chose your option above it would not back up SILH's original argument.

I appreciate opinions have softened, including my own... 
@SILH - On the question of etiquette, the main issue for me is not whether etiquette can change and evolve (which I believe it can), but whether this was actually etiquette in the first place... I think that is still up for debate, although I respect your opinion as to why you think it is. You also state we should follow the R&A, which doesn't state anything as strict as yourself...

I'm also not convinced about all these imaginary people who get upset about standing infront or behind (the back) of the player... Where's the proof, other than the etiquette that you suggest and many don't believe in?


----------



## Allanxyz (Jan 15, 2014)

Ps... Just trying to bump my number of replies...

also golf is ruined for me now, playing and watching... I'll be screaming at the tv, yelling that they should pan out a little just so I can see how everyone is standing on the tee box and hoping Phil is in contention so I can keep a close eye out for players shuffling across when the left hander takes his turn...


----------



## john0 (Jan 15, 2014)

This is my 49th post of the thread and I think at least 46 of them have been constructive


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 15, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			Good grief, it's like constantly trying to explain the same point to a 6 year old who is being difficult.  When you are finally forced, even though you don't want to, to just say

*Because!*

Click to expand...

Because WHAT?  Tell me how etiquette changes in the way you seem to suggest without things getting a mess.  Thing is that basically etiquette doesn't really change.  And I am not talking here at all or any any way shape or form about teeing off.  I'm taking about etiquette in general.  Anyway we - seem to both be missing each other's points.


----------



## Slime (Jan 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Anyway - in my mind the issue has actually evolved to one about etiquette - and the circumstances under which aspects of etiquette are or can be dropped - if ever. * Who decides and how do we find out or get told about it*.  For instance if some reason players decided it was OK to stand looking down the line of a FCs tee shot as they weren't bothered - and passed this on to newbies - it's only etiquette after all - no penalty - and so the newbie adopts the same practice and then plays with golfers who still recognise that etiquette - arguments and embarrassment - what a mess.
		
Click to expand...

No one person decides on etiquette! 
A game is invented, people play it and rules are drawn up. Meanwhile, as the game developes, certain behavioural aspects evolve borne out of common sense and good manners ........................... this is what we call etiquette. These are effectively a collection of unwritten rules if you like, not rules of the game per se, but universally accepted conventions to which we all (?) try to adhere. 
If one of these conventions is transgressed the guilty party is merely educated as to what should have happened and in no way is he punished for breaking a rule - because he hadn't done that.


*Slime*.

P.S. That sounded so much clearer in my head!


----------



## stevie_r (Jan 15, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Because WHAT?  Tell me how etiquette changes in the way you seem to suggest without things getting a mess.  Thing is that basically etiquette doesn't really change.  And I am not talking here at all or any any way shape or form about teeing off.  I'm taking about etiquette in general.  Anyway we - seem to both be missing each other's points.
		
Click to expand...

Final time because I really do think you are just at the wind up now.  It is no longer required by etiquette to stand where you suggested (if indeed it ever was) as a result of this massive change, has the game of golf descended into complete anarchy?

Now the reason for this is that over time (with me so far?) people change the way they feel (still with me?) about how things should happen, what seemed necessary or important no longer is (managing to keep up ok?) and new ways of doing things evolve (that means change).

Now if other elements of golf etiquette evolve (that means change remember) over time then there won't be a huge reaction it will be because over 20/ 30/ 40 years people will slowly gravitate to another way of doing things - in golf and in society in general.

Let's go back to your original example.  

'You know mate, I never really feel comfortable standing here when you tee off, mind if I stand over there?'
'But I won't know what you are doing, you might fiddle with stuff in your pockets'
'Promise I won't'
'OK then'

and in such fashion is pointless crap slowly eradicated from our lives.


----------



## vkurup (Jan 16, 2014)

Been away for 2 days, and already added 200+ posts to this thread... This thread keeps on giving..


BTW, what is an FC?


----------



## JamesR (Jan 16, 2014)

vkurup said:



			BTW, what is an FC?
		
Click to expand...

I think it's the same as a PP


----------



## vkurup (Jan 16, 2014)

Gil_Emott said:



			I think it's the same as a PP
		
Click to expand...

I go the PP bit.. but could not figure out who or what an FC is.. 
(would that be the fielding coach .. now that we are mixing cricket & golf)


----------



## JamesR (Jan 16, 2014)

vkurup said:



			I go the PP bit.. but could not figure out who or what an FC is.. 
(would that be the fielding coach .. now that we are mixing cricket & golf)
		
Click to expand...

I understood it to be Fellow Competitor, if it isn't I may have been offending an awful lot of people


----------



## john0 (Jan 16, 2014)

Gil_Emott said:



			I understood it to be Fellow Competitor, if it isn't I may have been offending an awful lot of people
		
Click to expand...

Did you know that is bad etiquette to offend people if you don't do it from the correct position


----------



## CMAC (Jan 16, 2014)

Gil_Emott said:



			I understood it to be Fellow Competitor, if it isn't I may have been offending an awful lot of people
		
Click to expand...

lol,:rofl: I think your definition of FC should be the norm now.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 16, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			Final time because I really do think you are just at the wind up now.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry - not my intention at all.




			It is no longer required by etiquette to stand where you suggested (if indeed it ever was) as a result of this massive change, has the game of golf descended into complete anarchy?
		
Click to expand...

I agree in part but it is simply your (and I admit many others) assertion that it is no longer required - clearly nobody had told me or DfT - and that is actually the general point I am making




			Now the reason for this is that over time (with me so far?) people change the way they feel (still with me?) about how things should happen, what seemed necessary or important no longer is (managing to keep up ok?) and new ways of doing things evolve (that means change).
		
Click to expand...

I agree in part - for instance it is no longer deemed necessary and good etiquette to wear a red jacket on the golf course to warn the public that there are golfers about - because most golf is not played on common land etc.  

But just because golfers attitudes towards something change in one place that can't just mean that the change applies everywhere.  Very different when we are talking about equipment as these changes and their impact on etiquette will be realised everywhere golf is played.  But personal attitudes and preferences are just these - even if they are shared in a group or locally.  That doesn't make them globally known about never mind accepted.  And please note that the things I am specifically talking about are things around aspects of the game that have not changed (like teeing off).  Because the context of the etiquette has not changed many may not agree with you about any need to change the etiquette - despite what one (possibly very large) constituency of golfers might think.




			Now if other elements of golf etiquette evolve (that means change remember) over time then there won't be a huge reaction it will be because over 20/ 30/ 40 years people will slowly gravitate to another way of doing things - in golf and in society in general.
		
Click to expand...

I agree - but this change needs to be agreed across and throughout the game and communicated - otherwise you risk confusion and upset.




			Let's go back to your original example.  

'You know mate, I never really feel comfortable standing here when you tee off, mind if I stand over there?'
'But I won't know what you are doing, you might fiddle with stuff in your pockets'
'Promise I won't'
'OK then'

and in such fashion is pointless crap slowly eradicated from our lives.
		
Click to expand...

All I can say on this is the DfTs HNSP came about for good reasons - and the reasons for it haven't really changed as far as I can see.  So I disagree that it's pointless crap - it costs almost nothing in time and effort to do - if you can be bothered.

So we disagree.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 16, 2014)

Allanxyz said:



			@SILH - On the question of etiquette, the main issue for me is not whether etiquette can change and evolve (which I believe it can), but whether this was actually etiquette in the first place... I think that is still up for debate, although I respect your opinion as to why you think it is. You also state we should follow the R&A, which doesn't state anything as strict as yourself...
		
Click to expand...

I agree - though I caveat that with the fact that there never really was anything *strictly *prescriptive about where folk should stand - in that you *must* stand there.  It was just always recognised to be the most appropriate place to stand being the most likely spot to avoid the possibility of distracting the player (and help the player spot his wayward shots)


----------



## Foxholer (Jan 16, 2014)

This really is a pretty ridiculous thread, even for January!

Over 1200 posts discussing it. Over 85% of voters(106 where the highest of the other options is 5!) in the poll 'Don't Care'!

:rofl:


----------



## JamesR (Jan 16, 2014)

OK, my last (reasonably) sensible post on this thread:

It is probably best to stand in front (at approx. 2 o'clock) of the player on the tee (or FC). It Is not a rule, but a best practice. It is easier to see the shot being played, track it in the air, and you are not likely to be hurt by flying balls, clubs etc.
You do not have to stand there, for example if there is not enough room, or it is unsafe. By not doing so you are not being rude, ignorant or lacking etiquette.

Etiquette has not really changed over the years, some clubs internal rules have, ie type of clothing allowed etc. 
Not everyone was given guidance on things such as SILH & myself were, as they may have learnt to play the game with mates who started at the same time, for instance. I would not say that they are changing etiquette, they are merely doing something different. I'm sure that if they were playing with someone who politely asked them to move, they would do so without fuss, that is good etiquette.

I think that the main points of view on this thread have been SILH et al said how they like it, others read into it a form of (for want of a better word) snobbery and condescension, even though I don't believe it was actually meant. As such battle lines were drawn and common sense at times went out the window, not helped by the rest of us who either took the proverbial, or kept re-stating there original views and answering what we thought were inaccuracies or misstatements by either side (the fence sitters, or, FS's you could call us).

Right, those are my opinions, like 'em or lump 'em I don't care, so long as you agree!


----------



## Snelly (Jan 16, 2014)

Gil_Emott said:



			OK, my last (reasonably) sensible post on this thread:

It is probably best to stand in front (at approx. 2 o'clock) of the player on the tee (or FC). It Is not a rule, but a best practice. It is easier to see the shot being played, track it in the air, and you are not likely to be hurt by flying balls, clubs etc.
You do not have to stand there, for example if there is not enough room, or it is unsafe. By not doing so you are not being rude, ignorant or lacking etiquette.

Etiquette has not really changed over the years, some clubs internal rules have, ie type of clothing allowed etc.

Not everyone was given guidance on things such as SILH & myself were, as they may have learnt to play the game with mates who started at the same time, for instance. I would not say that they are changing etiquette, they are merely doing something different. I'm sure that if they were playing with someone who politely asked them to move, they would do so without fuss, that is good etiquette.
		
Click to expand...

Well said.  I agree with you.


----------



## upsidedown (Jan 16, 2014)

Gil_Emott said:



			OK, my last (reasonably) sensible post on this thread:

It is probably best to stand in front (at approx. 2 o'clock) of the player on the tee (or FC). It Is not a rule, but a best practice. It is easier to see the shot being played, track it in the air, and you are not likely to be hurt by flying balls, clubs etc.
You do not have to stand there, for example if there is not enough room, or it is unsafe. By not doing so you are not being rude, ignorant or lacking etiquette.

Etiquette has not really changed over the years, some clubs internal rules have, ie type of clothing allowed etc. 
Not everyone was given guidance on things such as SILH & myself were, as they may have learnt to play the game with mates who started at the same time, for instance. I would not say that they are changing etiquette, they are merely doing something different. I'm sure that if they were playing with someone who politely asked them to move, they would do so without fuss, that is good etiquette.

I think that the main points of view on this thread have been SILH et al said how they like it, others read into it a form of (for want of a better word) snobbery and condescension, even though I don't believe it was actually meant. As such battle lines were drawn and common sense at times went out the window, not helped by the rest of us who either took the proverbial, or kept re-stating there original views and answering what we thought were inaccuracies or misstatements by either side (the fence sitters, or, FS's you could call us).

Right, those are my opinions, like 'em or lump 'em I don't care, so long as you agree!
		
Click to expand...

Good for me :thup:


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Jan 16, 2014)

I agree with the above, especially the 2 o clock position, that's where I go to if I can.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 16, 2014)

2 o clock wouldn't be the best for me - would prefer directly behind at the back of the tee - but as long as they are quiet that's all that matters


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 16, 2014)

Gil_Emott said:



			OK, my last (reasonably) sensible post on this thread:

It is probably best to stand in front (at approx. 2 o'clock) of the player on the tee (or FC). It Is not a rule, but a best practice. It is easier to see the shot being played, track it in the air, and you are not likely to be hurt by flying balls, clubs etc.
You do not have to stand there, for example if there is not enough room, or it is unsafe. By not doing so you are not being rude, ignorant or lacking etiquette.

Etiquette has not really changed over the years, some clubs internal rules have, ie type of clothing allowed etc. 
Not everyone was given guidance on things such as SILH & myself were, as they may have learnt to play the game with mates who started at the same time, for instance. I would not say that they are changing etiquette, they are merely doing something different. I'm sure that if they were playing with someone who politely asked them to move, they would do so without fuss, that is good etiquette.

I think that the main points of view on this thread have been SILH et al said how they like it, others read into it a form of (for want of a better word) snobbery and condescension, even though I don't believe it was actually meant. As such battle lines were drawn and common sense at times went out the window, not helped by the rest of us who either took the proverbial, or kept re-stating there original views and answering what we thought were inaccuracies or misstatements by either side (the fence sitters, or, FS's you could call us).

Right, those are my opinions, like 'em or lump 'em I don't care, so long as you agree!
		
Click to expand...

Wonderful post, probably the best of over 1200.

I really like the bit that said 'common sense at times went out of the window'.


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 16, 2014)

Lads be reasonable, half 3 at the earliest !  You are all crazy!


----------



## SocketRocket (Jan 16, 2014)

I disagree and firmly believe that anyone not standing within an arc between 1:50  and  3:10 should have the dogs set on them and receive a life ban.


----------



## JamesR (Jan 16, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			Lads be reasonable, half 3 at the earliest !  You are all crazy!
		
Click to expand...

Look here, I struggle with telling time enough as it is. Not helped by purchasing a clock from The Theakstons brewery a few years ago which had the words "Old Peculiar Time" written on it. I thought that meant something to do with the little character on Theakstons bottles, I was only partly right. The clock also goes backwards, something I didn't notice on purchase. As a result, your 3 o'clock is my 9 o'clock.
very confusing

http://www.theakstons.co.uk/m/Our-Shop/Product-Details/?Product=414

Link attached (I think)


----------



## the smiling assassin (Jan 16, 2014)

Personally, the only 2 positions I get a little distracted is when someone is loitering just inside my peripheral vision (5), or when standing facing me (1). 

In my experience, often when opponents stand in position (1) it is when they are trying to intimidate the opposition - i.e. gamesmanship, which is very poor ettiquette in my opinion.


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 16, 2014)

the smiling assassin said:



View attachment 8811


Personally, the only 2 positions I get a little distracted is when someone is loitering just inside my peripheral vision (5), or when standing facing me (1). 

*In my experience, often when opponents stand in position (1) it is when they are trying to intimidate the opposition - i.e. gamesmanship, which is very poor ettiquette in my opinion.*

Click to expand...

Open.
Can.
Worms.
Everywhere.


----------



## Slime (Jan 16, 2014)

When I'm playing I prefer othewrs to be around position 7 or 8, (which isn't shown), *AND STANDING STILL*, *AND QUIET!*

*Slime*.


----------



## the smiling assassin (Jan 16, 2014)

yeah, 6-8 is ok


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 16, 2014)

the smiling assassin said:



			yeah, 6-8 is ok
		
Click to expand...

Seriously....I have seen golfers hit by the ball when standing there.


----------



## the smiling assassin (Jan 16, 2014)

obviously the number scale only applies with a RH golfer in the middle. 

i've seen a car hit when it was parked 50 yards away down the line from no. 4.


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 16, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Seriously....I have seen golfers hit by the ball when standing there.
		
Click to expand...

How do you get hit at position 6?

I've been hit by a ball when standing at position 6, but it was a wayward approach shot to the green I had just left!


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Jan 16, 2014)

What if your watch is digital without a traditional face

we need a universal point of reference that doesnt discriminate against Joey Essex


----------



## the smiling assassin (Jan 16, 2014)

as requested - standardised in degrees rather than arbitrarily numbered


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Jan 16, 2014)

the smiling assassin said:



			as requested - standardised in degrees rather than arbitrarily numbered


View attachment 8812

Click to expand...

Where on earth were you with this on page 1?! It's now solely your fault that this has gone on so long. I hope you're proud of that! :smirk:


----------



## the smiling assassin (Jan 16, 2014)

a picture saves a 1000 posts (well 1200ish)


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 16, 2014)

the smiling assassin said:



			a picture saves a 1000 posts (well 1200ish)
		
Click to expand...

It might avoid ambiguity but not argument!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 16, 2014)

Been watching the golf from Abu Dhabi. I think one or two need to come on here for a refresher


----------



## MadAdey (Jan 16, 2014)

IS this really still going on? Who bloody cares where someone stands as long as they are quite and not trying to put me off. They can stand to me on left of they want to at the 9 o'clock position, as long as they realise there will be a ball coming at them doing about 150MPH....lol

The only etiquette I was ever taught regarding where to stand is anywhere as long as it does not interfere with someone. What was good in the old days is not so today. Etiquette is not a hard written set of rules but something we abide by to show good manners and sportsmanship.

The rules of ettiquette in golf to me is a living thing that changes with the times, what may have been the norm in the old days may not be now. Golf has changed a lot over the last 20 years or so as it has become a game that is accessible by the masses not just just the privileged few. Gone are the days of the old school golfer that normally tended to be people like bank managers and doctors to a game that is played by the working class man. Because of the wide variety of people that play golf now, the rules of etiquette has changed with that.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Been watching the golf from Abu Dhabi. I think one or two need to come on here for a refresher
		
Click to expand...

Only one or two
That must mean the vast majority comply.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 16, 2014)

the smiling assassin said:



			obviously the number scale only applies with a RH golfer in the middle.
		
Click to expand...

That's better!


----------



## the smiling assassin (Jan 16, 2014)

so to conclude, it is best to adopt either the 120* or the 240* position (as below), as either will be acceptable when playing with either a lefty or a righty. 

some times you just have to draw it to see it...


----------



## the smiling assassin (Jan 16, 2014)

and if its a 4 ball, 2 of the players will need to adopt the IJP/HS pose


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 16, 2014)

Assassin.........you are wasted on here.

Did you work at Bletchley during the war?


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 16, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			IS this really still going on? Who bloody cares where someone stands as long as they are quite and not trying to put me off. They can stand to me on left of they want to at the 9 o'clock position, as long as they realise there will be a ball coming at them doing about 150MPH....lol

The only etiquette I was ever taught regarding where to stand is anywhere as long as it does not interfere with someone. What was good in the old days is not so today. Etiquette is not a hard written set of rules but something we abide by to show good manners and sportsmanship.

The rules of ettiquette in golf to me is a living thing that changes with the times, what may have been the norm in the old days may not be now. Golf has changed a lot over the last 20 years or so as it has become a game that is accessible by the masses not just just the privileged few. Gone are the days of the old school golfer that normally tended to be people like bank managers and doctors to a game that is played by the working class man. Because of the wide variety of people that play golf now, the rules of etiquette has changed with that.
		
Click to expand...


OI Pal..... you missed out the Artisans.


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 16, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Assassin.........you are wasted on here.

Did you work at Bletchley during the war?
		
Click to expand...

I guess Assassin's course is shut at the moment!


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 16, 2014)

Was in my local Oxfam Bookshop earlier today - they had _Know the Game - Golf (1st Edn. 1950)_ for sale.  Had quick look under section *Etiquette*.  Damn - no mention of HNSP.  Clearly I know nuuuuthing! 

Anyway - was just a summary of what was in the Rule Book back then so what did I expect.  Â£2.99 though - might buy it as a wee keepsake in remembrance of this discussion.


----------



## TheJezster (Jan 16, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Sorry - not my intention at all.



I agree in part but it is simply your (and I admit many others) assertion that it is no longer required - clearly nobody had told me or DfT - and that is actually the general point I am making



I agree in part - *for instance it is no longer deemed necessary and good etiquette to wear a red jacket on the golf course to warn the public that there are golfers about* - because most golf is not played on common land etc.  

But just because golfers attitudes towards something change in one place that can't just mean that the change applies everywhere.  Very different when we are talking about equipment as these changes and their impact on etiquette will be realised everywhere golf is played.  But personal attitudes and preferences are just these - even if they are shared in a group or locally.  That doesn't make them globally known about never mind accepted.  And please note that the things I am specifically talking about are things around aspects of the game that have not changed (like teeing off).  Because the context of the etiquette has not changed many may not agree with you about any need to change the etiquette - despite what one (possibly very large) constituency of golfers might think.



I agree - but this change needs to be agreed across and throughout the game and communicated - otherwise you risk confusion and upset.



All I can say on this is the DfTs HNSP came about for good reasons - and the reasons for it haven't really changed as far as I can see.  So I disagree that it's pointless crap - it costs almost nothing in time and effort to do - if you can be bothered.

So we disagree.
		
Click to expand...

You talk for yourself, I'll have you know we DO still have to wear red whilst playing, to distinguish ourselves from the walkers/runners etc


----------



## Allanxyz (Jan 16, 2014)

the smiling assassin said:



			and if its a 4 ball, 2 of the players will need to adopt the IJP/HS pose
		
Click to expand...

Beer on keyboard... via mouth


----------



## williamalex1 (Jan 16, 2014)

TheJezster said:



			You talk for yourself, I'll have you know we DO still have to wear red whilst playing, to distinguish ourselves from the walkers/runners etc
		
Click to expand...

Me too it matches my eyes.:rofl:


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 16, 2014)

TheJezster said:



			You talk for yourself, I'll have you know we DO still have to wear red whilst playing, to distinguish ourselves from the walkers/runners etc
		
Click to expand...

You'll be a Womble then!


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 16, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			You'll be a Womble then!
		
Click to expand...

They are making a come back.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 17, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			They are making a come back.
		
Click to expand...

..and forever picking up rubbish - and that has nothing to do with this discussion though...


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 17, 2014)

Balamory is not called Tobermory [where it is filmed] because the BBC blocked them using Tobermory as he was a Womble.

Not a lot of folk know that!


----------



## North Mimms (Jan 17, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Balamory is not called Tobermory [where it is filmed] because the BBC blocked them using Tobermory as he was a Womble.

Not a lot of folk know that!
		
Click to expand...

I shall try to drop this fact into converstaion today!


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Jan 24, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			I shall try to drop this fact into converstaion today!
		
Click to expand...

Did you manage it? I've yet to do this, but i'm primed ready

( I just wanted to keep this thread alive).

I've got a medal this weekend. I'm making a concerted effort to stand opposite the person teeing off on the first, and will see how it goes down.

We're the last group off, so I will no doubt have pleeennty of time stood on each tee to consider this scenario


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 24, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Did you manage it? I've yet to do this, but i'm primed ready

( I just wanted to keep this thread alive).

I've got a medal this weekend. I'm making a concerted effort to stand opposite the person teeing off on the first, and will see how it goes down.

We're the last group off, so I will no doubt have pleeennty of time stood on each tee to consider this scenario
		
Click to expand...

You'll be OK and won't suffer any trauma - and neither with your PP teeing off.


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Jan 24, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			You'll be OK and won't suffer any trauma - and neither with your PP teeing off.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about avoiding all trauma. with some of my ball striking, there are days when all points of the clock face are in danger!


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Mar 4, 2015)

So SWILH, how is the campaign going to get people stood in the right place?


----------



## richart (Mar 4, 2015)

Wow the thread is over a year old. Time flies when you get old.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 4, 2015)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			So SWILH, how is the campaign going to get people stood in the right place? 

Click to expand...

Oh please God no !!


It was all bad enough the first time around


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Mar 4, 2015)

richart said:



			Wow the thread is over a year old. Time flies when you get old.

Click to expand...

That was my thought, a whole year! No stand out similar threads this year.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 4, 2015)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			That was my thought, a whole year! No stand out similar threads this year.
		
Click to expand...

I don't expect there to be ever a thread like it ever again !!


----------



## North Mimms (Mar 4, 2015)

If we are discussing a correct place to stand circa 1950, the correct place for me as a woman would have been in the Clubhouse, serving behind the bar.

Thank goodness times have changed


----------



## FairwayDodger (Mar 4, 2015)

Must confess, I ignored this thread first time round. Would anyone care to summarise?


----------



## North Mimms (Mar 4, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Must confess, I ignored this thread first time round. Would anyone care to summarise?
		
Click to expand...

"They're all oot of step apart from Oor Wullie..."


----------



## FairwayDodger (Mar 4, 2015)

North Mimms said:



			"They're all oot of step apart from Oor Wullie..."
		
Click to expand...

:rofl:

Love it


----------



## Pin-seeker (Mar 4, 2015)

I can report that in the year that as passed since this thread I've had no issue with where my playing partners stand.


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Mar 4, 2015)

Pin-seeker said:



			I can report that in the year that as passed since this thread I've had no issue with where my playing partners stand.
		
Click to expand...

But where have they stood?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Mar 4, 2015)

Pin-seeker said:



			I can report that in the year that as passed since this thread I've had no issue with where my playing partners stand.
		
Click to expand...

Same with me. There again I wasn't too bothered while this thread ran. Keep out of my eye line and keep quiet. I don't care where you stand. That's all I ask


----------



## Pin-seeker (Mar 4, 2015)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			But where have they stood?
		
Click to expand...

I honestly couldn't tell you. 
When I'm in the zone,I'm in the zone :fore:


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Mar 4, 2015)

Pin-seeker said:



			I honestly couldn't tell you. 
When I'm in the zone,I'm in the zone :fore:
		
Click to expand...

Is that the historic zone?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Mar 4, 2015)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Is that the historic zone?
		
Click to expand...

I'm usually just praying to god that I make contact with the little white ball.


----------



## MrBrightside (Mar 4, 2015)

Pin-seeker said:



			I honestly couldn't tell you. 
When I'm in the zone,I'm in the zone :fore:
		
Click to expand...

when i'm in the zone, I'm usually in the drop zone!


----------



## Slab (Mar 5, 2015)

Just realised I didn't actually cast a vote first time round, do you think it'll change the outcome?


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 5, 2015)

I should not really contribute to this thread as I have retired from playing golf [too slow for me now] and taken up bowls.

I was surprised to notice that the HNSP seems to be the same as golf used to be.
More closely observed by the senior players.


----------



## Crow (Mar 5, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I should not really contribute to this thread as I have retired from playing golf [too slow for me now] and taken up bowls.

I was surprised to notice that the HNSP seems to be the same as golf used to be.
More closely observed by the senior players.
		
Click to expand...

"Somewhere In front of you"

Doesn't that mean that they'd be standing in line with the jack?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 6, 2015)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			So SWILH, how is the campaign going to get people stood in the right place? 

Click to expand...

I will still ask folk to move if I don't like where they are standing - and still myself try to stand at the HNSP. If I am playing with a newbies I let them know about the HNSP


----------



## StrangelyBrown (Mar 6, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			If I am playing with a newbies I let them know about the *HNSP*

Click to expand...

The what?


----------



## chrisd (Mar 6, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I will still ask folk to move if I don't like where they are standing - and still myself try to stand at the HNSP. If I am playing with a newbies I let them know about the HNSP
		
Click to expand...

If I stand where I normally stand, and someone told me to stand somewhere different, I probably wouldn't stand for it!  :rofl:


----------



## MadAdey (Mar 6, 2015)

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I really couldn't give a toss where people stand. I'm concentrating on my shot not them, unless they are rattling tees in their pocket or bouncing a ball on their club face then I get annoyed as that is just bad manners.

what do people do at courses where the first tee is against the car park or clubhouse? Do you go into the clubhouse and ask everyone who is sat on the wrong side of you to move while you play your shot? Do you get the car park shut down so nobody gets out of a car on the wrong side of you?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I will still ask folk to move if I don't like where they are standing - and still myself try to stand at the HNSP. *If I am playing with a newbies I let them know about the HNSP*

Click to expand...

And i would hope they would have the common sense to ignore such advise and realise that every single person who plays golf is different


----------



## bladeplayer (Mar 6, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I will still ask folk to move if I don't like where they are standing - and still myself try to stand at the HNSP. If I am playing with a newbies I let them know about the HNSP

Click to expand...




StrangelyBrown said:



			The what?
		
Click to expand...


OH NO !!!


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 6, 2015)

chrisd said:



			If I stand where I normally stand, and someone told me to stand somewhere different, I probably wouldn't stand for it!  :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

But you'd move - of course?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 6, 2015)

MadAdey said:



			I've said it before and I'll say it again, I really couldn't give a toss where people stand. I'm concentrating on my shot not them, unless they are rattling tees in their pocket or bouncing a ball on their club face then I get annoyed as that is just bad manners.
		
Click to expand...

But some players do - I am sure that out of respect for any player about to play you stand as unobtrusively out of the way as possible and if asked by the player to move you do so unquestioningly and without hesitation.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 6, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And i would hope they would have the common sense to ignore such advise and realise that every single person who plays golf is different
		
Click to expand...

You would encourage new players to ignore advice offered on etiquette that is offered with the best interests of the newbie in mind - so that the newbie might avoid finding himself in slightly awkward and embarrassing situations in future and not knowing what do do?  Excellent!  It's not what the non-playing player feels or wants, it is about the best interests and wishes of the player about to play that is important surely.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			You would encourage new players to ignore advice offered on etiquette that is offered with the best interests of the newbie in mind - so that the newbie might avoid finding himself in slightly awkward and embarrassing situations in future and not knowing what do do?  Excellent!  It's not what the non-playing player feels or wants, it is about the best interests and wishes of the player about to play that is important surely.
		
Click to expand...

I would ensure newbies realise that different people have different ways on the tee and that there is no defined place were to stand and that whilst playin they will learn where the best place is too stand - I would hope anyone with any amount of common sense would ignore someone when they are told that there is a place they must always stand and its historic yet not written down anywhere and only appears to be the figment of one person's imagination


----------



## North Mimms (Mar 6, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			You would encourage new players to ignore advice offered on etiquette that is offered with the best interests of the newbie in mind - so that the newbie might avoid finding himself in slightly awkward and embarrassing situations in future and not knowing what do do?  Excellent!  It's not what the non-playing player feels or wants, it is about the best interests and wishes of the player about to play that is important surely.
		
Click to expand...

At the risk of rehashing an old thread, discussion on this topic has made it clear that the majority of club players do not recognise this HNSP. So you are "educating" these newbies on what you want.
See my earlier post about Oor Wullie

I find it strange how many courses I play which have tees designed that this "HNSP" would be in a bush if the player on the tee was right handed (as the majority of golfers are)

I have never been made to feel awkward or embarrassed because of where I am standing.
I reserve that for after I play my own tee shot!


----------



## garyinderry (Mar 6, 2015)

After last weeks performance I am pretty sure I could shank one at the HNSP.


----------



## BTatHome (Mar 6, 2015)

As a newbie if someone where to tell you where you should stand, but be unable to substantiate their opinion, then what is the newbie supposed to think?  Probably just some fuddy duddy spouting off? Or should he just listen to everyone that decides to quote etiquette, or spirit of the game, or commonly held belief, as to what he should do?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 6, 2015)

Ach - I can't be bothered.

But if someone is standing too close to me behind my back (and the distance can vary depending upon how I feel) or at the back of the tee looking directly down the line of my shot, then I'll most likely ask them to move.  Don't honestly care where they then move to.  

My view was simply that, if practical, the HNSP was, and still is, a place you can stand and pretty much guarantee to not be asked to move by the player on the tee.  That's all.


----------



## North Mimms (Mar 6, 2015)

BTatHome said:



			As a newbie if someone where to tell you where you should stand, but be unable to substantiate their opinion, then what is the newbie supposed to think?  Probably just some fuddy duddy spouting off? Or should he just listen to everyone that decides to quote etiquette, or spirit of the game, or commonly held belief, as to what he should do?
		
Click to expand...

Trouble is, as a newbie- I listened and believed everything I was told by anyone who had been playing longer than me.
that's how golfing myths get perpetuated


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Mar 6, 2015)

Lets say SWILH asks them to stand there. Would there be anyone who had a problem if in the future, the newbie always stood there?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 6, 2015)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Lets say SWILH asks them to stand there. Would there be anyone who had a problem if in the future, the newbie always stood there?
		
Click to expand...

Good question sir!


----------



## Slab (Mar 6, 2015)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Lets say SWILH asks them to stand there. Would there be anyone who had a problem if in the future, the newbie always stood there?
		
Click to expand...

Confusion may arise when they physically cant stand there and so end up somewhere else and strangely the world doesn't end as a result!


----------



## bluewolf (Mar 6, 2015)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Lets say SWILH asks them to stand there. Would there be anyone who had a problem if in the future, the newbie always stood there?
		
Click to expand...

I couldn't give a flying monkey fart where someone stands as long as they are quiet, and a respectful distance away from my swing arc.. If my PP wants me to stand in a specific place (where possible) then that's no issue at all... Just show some respect and stop making things more complicated than they need to be... The game is complex enough...


----------



## North Mimms (Mar 6, 2015)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Lets say SWILH asks them to stand there. Would there be anyone who had a problem if in the future, the newbie always stood there?
		
Click to expand...

No. 
With the priviso that if those waiting to play are standing , say on the left hand side of tee, that they stay there whilst all drive off.

SILH has in the past said that he will swap his standing position for a left handed player.
Frankly if I was playing with two RH players and 2 LH players, and everyone was bobbing from one side of tee to the other like windscreen wipers, I would find that quite irritating.


----------



## North Mimms (Mar 6, 2015)

I have a couple of regular playing partners who have definite preferences- one does not like anyone holding the flag one it is removed: they insist that it is laid down.
In the interest of politeness, I will accommodate their wish, but it doesn't mean i lay the flag down when I play with other people, nor insist that others do.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 6, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			I couldn't give a flying monkey fart where someone stands as long as they are quiet, and a respectful distance away from my swing arc.. If my PP wants me to stand in a specific place (where possible) then that's no issue at all... Just show some respect and stop making things more complicated than they need to be... The game is complex enough...
		
Click to expand...

Point is that this isn't about you - because you know about you.  It's about the player who DOES care - and maybe finds it awkward to ask folk to move.  All I have ever said all along is that the 'safest' place to stand if standing close to the tee and you are unsure of what the players preference is, or don't want to be embarrassed by being asked to move - has been the HNSP.  This isn't complex; this isn't difficult; it isn't mandatory; if someone is standing somewhere that is OK by me I'm not going to ask them to move to the HNSP; if it isn't going to be practical to stand at the HSNP I wouldn't myself try and stand there or expect anyone else to.  

I repeat that if a newbie came to me and said they were unsure about where to stand when someone else was teeing off - I'd tell them about the HNSP - but I'd also say that if they were to stand well away from the tee ground then they'll be OK wherever.


----------



## bluewolf (Mar 6, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Point is that this isn't about you - because you know about you.  It's about the player who DOES care - and maybe finds it awkward to ask folk to move.  All I have ever said all along is that the 'safest' place to stand if standing close to the tee and you are unsure of what the players preference is, or don't want to be embarrassed by being asked to move - has been the HNSP.  This isn't complex; this isn't difficult; it isn't mandatory; if someone is standing somewhere that is OK by me I'm not going to ask them to move to the HNSP; if it isn't going to be practical to stand at the HSNP I wouldn't myself try and stand there or expect anyone else to.  

I repeat that if a newbie came to me and said they were unsure about where to stand when someone else was teeing off - I'd tell them about the HNSP - but I'd also say that if they were to stand well away from the tee ground then they'll be OK wherever.
		
Click to expand...


You do your thing and I'll do mine. Everyone's happy that way...:thup: 

Oh, and if someone is a bit too meek to ask someone if they could possibly move during a friendly round of golf, then maybe the issue is a bit bigger than the HNSP. They either need to learn to speak up, or they need to find someone else to play with...


----------



## Dan2501 (Mar 6, 2015)

I don't really care, so long as they're not too close, still and quiet.


----------



## Region3 (Mar 6, 2015)

Is anyone else slightly disturbed than an acronym has been invented for something that doesn't exist?


----------



## Robobum (Mar 6, 2015)

Region3 said:



			Is anyone else slightly disturbed than an acronym has been invented for something that doesn't exist?
		
Click to expand...

YIA


----------



## Imurg (Mar 6, 2015)

Region3 said:



			Is anyone else slightly disturbed than an acronym has been invented for something that doesn't exist?
		
Click to expand...

Im slightly disturbed that the whole thread has been resurrected at all.....


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Mar 6, 2015)

Imurg said:



			Im slightly disturbed that the whole thread has been resurrected at all.....
		
Click to expand...


----------



## john0 (Mar 6, 2015)

To save me reading right through this thread again can someone please remind me what the HNSP actually is and how it came about?  Thanks


----------



## uncle chop chop (Mar 6, 2015)

If my playing partners expected me to keep swapping sides of the tee I would actually tell them to get lost. Pace of play needs to be thought about here, I can understand not behid looking down the line of your shot, but what difference does it make in front or behind as long as still, quiet and not close enough to hinder. People need to get a grip and get on with it.

Oh and if my playing partner wanted the flag laying on the floor everytime and picking up, he would be doing it himself.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Mar 6, 2015)

john0 said:



			To save me reading right through this thread again can someone please remind me what the HNSP actually is and how it came about?  Thanks
		
Click to expand...

Historical Natural Standing Position.

And it came about because SILH invented it.


----------



## North Mimms (Mar 6, 2015)

uncle chop chop said:



			Oh and if my playing partner wanted the flag laying on the floor everytime and picking up, he would be doing it himself.
		
Click to expand...

In her defence, the fact that it once slipped out of my hands just as the third member of our group was putting "might" have something to do with it


----------



## North Mimms (Mar 6, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I repeat that if a newbie came to me and said they were unsure about where to stand when someone else was teeing off - I'd tell them about the HNSP - but I'd also say that if they were to *stand well away* from the tee ground then they'll be OK wherever.
		
Click to expand...

Ah, well this is new.

So the place that I frequently stand (at someone's back but not close) was ok all along?
I walk from green to tee and stand at the side of the tee closest to me (and the path)
I call this the BOSP.
Blatantly Obvious Standing Position
Walking round to the "wrong" side of the tee has always seemed time wasting and daft to me, and I will continue to do as I have always done as it seems it was ok all along.


Might as well shut the thread


----------



## upsidedown (Mar 6, 2015)

If I was playing with a "Newbie " and they asked where should I stand whilst you tee off , I'd reply thus.

"I'd like you to stand in a position where you can keep an eye on my ball flight please ,so if I don't see it you'll be able to tell me where it has gone." For a right handed player this postilion would be the NHSP as the ball can be followed with uninterrupted vision ( until it disappeared into the trees )and no distractions from the teeing off players swing. 
PP's not watching / losing sight where your ball has gone is definitely one of the causes of slow play.
 I would also explain that it's not always possible to be in that position so to stand well out of the way, out of my eyeline, I'd also explain that it's not necessary to swap for left handed players


----------



## the smiling assassin (Mar 6, 2015)

Warning. Asking somebody to move to another spot is as sure a way as possible to guarantee a poor golf shot. Best to just shut up and play better golf.


----------



## North Mimms (Mar 6, 2015)

upsidedown said:



			If I was playing with a "Newbie " and they asked where should I stand whilst you tee off , I'd reply thus.

"I'd like you to stand in a position where you can keep an eye on my ball flight please ,so if I don't see it you'll be able to tell me where it has gone." For a right handed player this postilion would be the NHSP as the ball can be followed with uninterrupted vision ( until it disappeared into the trees )and no distractions from the teeing off players swing. 
PP's not watching / losing sight where your ball has gone is definitely one of the causes of slow play.
 I would also explain that it's not always possible to be in that position so to stand well out of the way, out of my eyeline, I'd also explain that it's not necessary to swap for left handed players
		
Click to expand...

I'll sometimes stand on the "other" side if it aids watching the ball.

This time of year when the sun is low there can be a preferred side which reduces looking into the glare


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 6, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			Historical Natural Standing Position.

And it came about because SILH invented it.
		
Click to expand...

He did not 'invent it' as it was standard practice for golfers playing up until the 1960's [after that golf became more popular for commoners]


----------



## bluewolf (Mar 6, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			He did not 'invent it' as it was standard practice for golfers playing up until the 1960's [after that golf became more popular for commoners]
		
Click to expand...

Bored again? If you are so disinterested that all you can do is try to wind people up then why don't you find a group more suited to your illusory superiority?


----------



## North Mimms (Mar 6, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			He did not 'invent it' as it was standard practice for golfers playing up until the 1960's [after that golf became more popular for commoners]
		
Click to expand...

It was also standard practice for men to wear hats then.
Times change


----------



## MadAdey (Mar 6, 2015)

All standings bother I hit place does not transfer into the real world. If I use my old club at Spalding as an example as it is a good length parkland course on a typical size on land of land. This is how your standing position would be with no other choice exept to stand here, obviously avoiding the directly where possible.

Stand anywhere = 3 holes
Right of the tee box = 8 holes
Left of the tee box = 4 holes
Directly behind, inline with the swing = 2 holes
Right of the tee box 20 yards in front = 1 hole

So spot the problem here. There is no way of standing in a predetermined position at the tee box, every hole has to be taken as it comes, including standing directly behind. If you play on a nice open links course then it is easy to apply certain standing rules as you do not have trees and bushes to contend with.


----------



## USER1999 (Mar 6, 2015)

Stand where you want. Stand still. Look for where the ball went.

Job done.

I can't see what the issue is.


----------



## bluewolf (Mar 6, 2015)

murphthemog said:



			Stand where you want. Stand still. Look for where the ball went.

Job done.

I can't see what the issue is.
		
Click to expand...

There isn't really an issue, but I'm keen to see if I can get a thread about standing up all the way to 2000 posts....


----------



## USER1999 (Mar 6, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			There isn't really an issue, but I'm keen to see if I can get a thread about standing up all the way to 2000 posts....
		
Click to expand...

Fair point, and I'm with you all the way.


----------



## BTatHome (Mar 6, 2015)

North Mimms said:



			I walk from green to tee and stand at the side of the tee closest to me (and the path)
I call this the BOSP.
Blatantly Obvious Standing Position
		
Click to expand...

I'm loving this terminology best, much easier to remember .... and even when the goalposts get moved it still means the same thing


----------



## john0 (Mar 6, 2015)

murphthemog said:



			Fair point, and I'm with you all the way.
		
Click to expand...

Will you be behind him or to the side of him though?


----------



## bluewolf (Mar 6, 2015)

He'll be at the side of me, in front, wearing a hat and a nice set of Harris Tweeds.. We'll then visit the clubhouse for a plate of faggots and a large glass of sherry, before taking the horseless carriage back to the Gentlemens club for a nightcap...


----------



## ColchesterFC (Mar 6, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			There isn't really an issue, but I'm keen to see if I can get a thread about standing up all the way to 2000 posts....
		
Click to expand...




murphthemog said:



			Fair point, and I'm with you all the way.
		
Click to expand...

Well that's just ridiculous. And I'm not going to help you achieve that target by pointlessly replying to comments like these. (Insert appropriate s mk Riley that my Kindle won't let me add)


----------



## USER1999 (Mar 6, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			Well that's just ridiculous. And I'm not going to help you achieve that target by pointlessly replying to comments like these. (Insert appropriate s mk Riley that my Kindle won't let me add)
		
Click to expand...

Nonsense post, but I can't help but support your right to post  on this thread, even though I think you might be wrong, unless I misunderstood. In which case I'm with you all the way.


----------



## MadAdey (Mar 7, 2015)

BTatHome said:



			I'm loving this terminology best, much easier to remember .... and even when the goalposts get moved it still means the same thing 

Click to expand...

I like to employ the 'WGAF' attitude to where people are standing.......


----------



## Imurg (Mar 7, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			Well that's just ridiculous. And I'm not going to help you achieve that target by pointlessly replying to comments like these. (Insert appropriate s mk Riley that my Kindle won't let me add)
		
Click to expand...

Im wondering who s mk Riley is and where they're going to stand.....


----------



## bluewolf (Mar 7, 2015)

Imurg said:



			Im wondering who s mk Riley is and where they're going to stand.....
		
Click to expand...

I'm hoping that it's Rachel Riley, and I can tell her exactly where to stand. And it will definitely be in front of me.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Mar 7, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			I'm hoping that it's Rachel Riley, and I can tell her exactly where to stand. And it will definitely be in front of me.
		
Click to expand...

Get in the queue behind me pal... and many more ahead. Her Strictly partner Artem whatshisname definitely got a Brucie Bonus pulling her


----------



## huds1475 (Feb 22, 2016)

Wow. Can't believe I missed this bad boy.


----------



## tugglesf239 (Feb 22, 2016)

Ha 

Rabble rouser!


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 22, 2016)

huds1475 said:



			Wow. Can't believe I missed this bad boy.
		
Click to expand...

...and this one was part two as the original one was closed (though I can't remember why).  HNSP was a goodie.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 23, 2016)

Nooooooooooooo. Only just recovered from part one and the demised follow up. One of the best threads we've had!!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2016)

To us, relatively, new members, wow, just wow, it makes a lot of other issues, queries etc fall into place, there's also a lot of strange names of forum members past, some quality posts though.


----------



## Odvan (Feb 23, 2016)

Huds, what have you done!


----------



## UlyssesSky (Feb 23, 2016)

Ooops, only saw how old this thread is after voting...


----------



## vkurup (Feb 23, 2016)

Classic thread... not sure we ever reached a unanimous view on this one.. 

BTW, at what point does a thread lose the plot about the original post and take a life of its own?


----------



## rickg (Feb 23, 2016)

vkurup said:



			BTW, at what point does a thread lose the plot about the original post and take a life of its own?
		
Click to expand...

Usually when DelC starts to post in it..... :rofl:


----------



## craigstardis1976 (Jun 14, 2019)

Back right-hand corner of the tee box, standing at a 55 degree angle to the golfer, eyes on his ball on the tee, ready to swivel my head in the direction of the shot!


----------



## adam6177 (Jun 14, 2019)

Please lock this down! ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜†ðŸ˜


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 14, 2019)

craigstardis1976 said:



			Back right-hand corner of the tee box, standing at a 55 degree angle to the golfer, eyes on his ball on the tee, ready to swivel my head in the direction of the shot!
		
Click to expand...

Close - but not quite what I was taught by the auld fellas back in 1970 - though of course they could have been wrongðŸ‘


----------



## GG26 (Jun 14, 2019)

I just make sure that my PP are not in front of me especially if I have an iron in my hand, I have been catching many off of the toe recently and just worried for their safety.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 14, 2019)

craigstardis1976 said:



			Back right-hand corner of the tee box, standing at a 55 degree angle to the golfer, eyes on his ball on the tee, ready to swivel my head in the direction of the shot!
		
Click to expand...

Why did you bump this three year old topic?

Has this actually got 68 pages!?


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 14, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Why did you bump this three year old topic?

Has this actually got 68 pages!?
		
Click to expand...

It does, and you should read them, it's comedy gold.


----------



## Slab (Jun 15, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Why did you bump this three year old topic?

Has this actually got 68 pages!?
		
Click to expand...

And don't forget to read the thread that closed before this one
Epic and nice to see it surface again


----------



## Slab (Jun 15, 2019)

As time has gone by I have come to see the merit in a HNSP when I tee off... 

But only when the other players are wearing black socks with shorts! 
Get behind me you eyesore!


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jun 15, 2019)

Last poster before yesterday's bump... still sadly missed.


----------



## bladeplayer (Jun 15, 2019)

Last comment before it was brought back to life .. the ever smiling RickG .. 
RIP  Rick keep smiling


----------



## Jamesbrown (Jun 15, 2019)

Whenever I feel sad, I search for HNSP. 
Cheers up a dull day.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 15, 2019)

bladeplayer said:



			Last comment before it was brought back to life .. the ever smiling RickG ..
RIP  Rick keep smiling
		
Click to expand...

Would have been his birthday today as well. Happy birthday pal


----------

