# Thorbjorn Olesen - Arrested



## Dan2501 (Aug 1, 2019)

https://www.bunkered.co.uk/golf-news/report-thorbjorn-olesen-arrested-after-flight-disturbance

Mental story this. Thunderbear obviously got rather intoxicated before/on this flight, had to be calmed down by Ian Poulter, urinated in the aisle of a First Class BA flight, molested a female onboard, sounds like dreadful behaviour.


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## GOLFER1994 (Aug 1, 2019)

Wow. He's had a nightmare there


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## howbow88 (Aug 1, 2019)

Never good behaviour but on a long-haul flight? Very poor. Judges are really coming down on 'air rage' at the moment, so he could be in some trouble.


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## Britishshooting (Aug 1, 2019)

I like this myself...

â€œIt was shocking behaviour. You would expect it maybe on a budget airline but not in the first-class cabin on BA.â€™â€™

I've honestly had most of the worse experiences on flights in first class on BA as some people think they're above the law and are self important bum holes. 

Be interesting to see how this one plays out.


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## Grant85 (Aug 1, 2019)

RIP Thorbjorn.


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## Orikoru (Aug 1, 2019)

Wow. I hope he wasn't wearing black socks as well - they'll throw away the key.


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## Slab (Aug 1, 2019)

Genuinely shocked reading that


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 1, 2019)

Â£1 says he will use the 'I took a sleeping tablet and it reacted badly at altitude and with alcohol' defence. That seems to be the standard approach when someone in 1st class, a professional etc kicks off on a plane. Put them in a tracksuit.....................


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## Tiger man (Aug 1, 2019)

Godspeed Thorbjorn


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## hines57 (Aug 1, 2019)

what a pillock! Unacceptable where ever this sort of thing takes place, but at 38,000 feet and a potential threat to passengers and drew - no, no, no......


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## Pathetic Shark (Aug 1, 2019)

I'm trying to get my head round the phrase "had to be calmed down by Ian Poulter".


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## drdel (Aug 1, 2019)

Made an idiot of himself; better get his wallet out and ready for a serious dent if not jail time.

A few legal eagles about to get a good payday.


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## Jimaroid (Aug 1, 2019)

Sounds like another victim of Ambien.

Silly boy.


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## inc0gnito (Aug 1, 2019)

The source is The Scum, so god knows how reliable (ie made up) all of it is.


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## rksquire (Aug 1, 2019)

"...would expect it on a budget airline..."...what?  That witness / passenger also needs a bit of educating, hope he/she managed to recover their monocle after the incident.

Sounds shocking, but as mentioned, these are allegations, but it's never good that the crew felt it necessary to have the police there on arrival.


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## howbow88 (Aug 1, 2019)

I work for an airline, and police are called to more flights than you would think. However, 90% of the time the police just give them a ticking off and the airline sends them a letter telling them not to behave like such tools. The police don't often make an arrest, so I would guess that there is definitely something in this...


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## Orikoru (Aug 1, 2019)

rksquire said:



			"...would expect it on a budget airline..."...what?  That witness / passenger also needs a bit of educating, hope he/she managed to recover their monocle after the incident.
		
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Well there had to be a _bit_ of elitism in a golf-related article.


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## JamesR (Aug 1, 2019)

rksquire said:



			"...would expect it on a budget airline..."...what?  That witness / passenger also needs a bit of educating, hope he/she managed to recover their monocle after the incident.

Sounds shocking, but as mentioned, these are allegations, but it's never good that the crew felt it necessary to have the police there on arrival.
		
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Friend of mine is a pilot, flying to Hamburg regularly with a plane load of stag do idiots. 
Apparently he often has to threaten to not even take off, the behaviour of the drunken knobs is so bad !

So it isnâ€™t really a snobbish point of view, more likely an educated one.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 1, 2019)

JamesR said:



			Friend of mine is a pilot, flying to Hamburg regularly with a plane load of stag do idiots.
Apparently he often has to threaten to not even take off, the behaviour of the drunken knobs is so bad !

So it isnâ€™t really a snobbish point of view, more likely an educated one.
		
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Why are they even allowed on the plane? Drunks are not supposed to get past the final boarding area. There are lots of stages where this problem could be nipped in the bud but everyone keeps passing the buck further down the line. The pilots and crew should not be the ones having to deal with it, that is the point where the most danger is.


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## Crawley1981 (Aug 1, 2019)

Well if he does get convicted of the main offence there it will make getting into the US suddenly very difficult for him.


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## Jacko_G (Aug 1, 2019)

inc0gnito said:



			The source is The Scum, so god knows how reliable (ie made up) all of it is.
		
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ðŸ™„ðŸ™„ðŸ™„ðŸ™„ðŸ™„ðŸ™„ðŸ™„


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## Jacko_G (Aug 1, 2019)

Bad enough acting like a lout without getting your tadger out and exposing yourself to the plane never mind urinate.

Filthy disgusting horrible man.

Would love to see the courts hammer him.


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## Wolf (Aug 1, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Bad enough acting like a lout without getting your tadger out and exposing yourself to the plane never mind urinate.

Filthy disgusting horrible man.

Would love to see the courts hammer him.
		
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If all the account is true then hammered he should be and bloody rightly so. Will make playing in any majors stateside difficult with a conviction, doubt they'd even allow him entry. Absolute career suicide if he gets a conviction.


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## Lazkir (Aug 1, 2019)

Wolf said:



			If all the account is true then hammered he should be and bloody rightly so. Will make playing in any majors stateside difficult with a conviction, doubt they'd even allow him entry. Absolute career suicide if he gets a conviction.
		
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Unfortunately I'm not sure that's strictly true. He'd pretty much pass the relevant 2019 esta questions:


Have you ever been arrested or convicted for a crime that resulted in serious damage to property, or serious harm to another person or government authority?
Have you ever violated any law related to possessing, using, or distributing illegal drugs?
Do you seek to engage in or have you ever engaged in terrorist activities, espionage, sabotage, or genocide?
Have you ever committed fraud or misrepresented yourself or others to obtain, or assist others to obtain, a visa or entry into the United States?
I'm pretty sure he'd be safe saying 'no' to all of those. No doubt some on here will argue otherwise though if the sexual assault sticks.
Also as a 'famous' sportsman I doubt he'd be seen as much of a risk, plus he'd have good representation if he was asked to go to the American Embassy for a full visa.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 1, 2019)

Be interesting to see what happens with his endorsement contracts if the reports turn out to be correct.  Might be a bigger hammer than any court could impose.


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## Hitdaball (Aug 1, 2019)

Looks like he went full Sergio.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 1, 2019)

Well if allegations stop you doing your job in the USA Trump would never get back in the country when he travels abroad.
We can condem him if and when proved until then???


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## Wolf (Aug 1, 2019)

Lazkir said:



			Unfortunately I'm not sure that's strictly true. He'd pretty much pass the relevant 2019 esta questions:


Have you ever been arrested or convicted for a crime that resulted in serious damage to property, or serious harm to another person or government authority?
Have you ever violated any law related to possessing, using, or distributing illegal drugs?
Do you seek to engage in or have you ever engaged in terrorist activities, espionage, sabotage, or genocide?
Have you ever committed fraud or misrepresented yourself or others to obtain, or assist others to obtain, a visa or entry into the United States?
I'm pretty sure he'd be safe saying 'no' to all of those. No doubt some on here will argue otherwise though if the sexual assault sticks.
Also as a 'famous' sportsman I doubt he'd be seen as much of a risk, plus he'd have good representation if he was asked to go to the American Embassy for a full visa.
		
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You may well be right but have to also remember things like the Masters being an invitational event if the sex allegation sticks they're not the sort to allow a potentially convicted man through their gates. Whatever the outcome if the allegations all prove to be true its going to largely damage his career from a sponsor point of view and could limit invites to some events.


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## Lazkir (Aug 1, 2019)

Wolf said:



			You may well be right but have to also remember things like the Masters being an invitational event if the sex allegation sticks they're not the sort to allow a potentially convicted man through their gates. Whatever the outcome if the allegations all prove to be true its going to largely damage his career from a sponsor point of view and could limit invites to some events.
		
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And deservedly so!


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 1, 2019)

Wolf said:



			You may well be right but have to also remember things like the Masters being an invitational event if the sex allegation sticks they're not the sort to allow a potentially convicted man through their gates. Whatever the outcome if the allegations all prove to be true its going to largely damage his career from a sponsor point of view and could limit invites to some events.
		
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Yes I agre here ,but would the Masters not invite someone who has qualified .( if he does)
I know itâ€™s an invitation but  would he have a legal case if he serves his sentence,as it would be costly to his career , fed ex etc.
This is just another reason the Majors should not be invitations.


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## Wolf (Aug 1, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I agre here but would the Masters not invite someone who has qualified .( if he does)
I know itâ€™s an invitation but he would have a legal case as it would be costly to his career , fed ex etc.
This is just another reason the Majors should not be invitations.
		
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Interesting points. Can't 100% say for certain whether they would extend or remove the invite until whatever happens to him happens. However with the Masters players hit the qualifying criteria in order to be offered the invite, I wouldn't have thought that it guarantees anything and would still be at their discretion as its their invitational tournament run by them seperate to any tours. He could try to take them to court  and I maybe wrong here but I don't see him winning a case against them as they set the criteria for entry and they send the invites, they could argue if he is convicted that they feel it in the interests of their members, patrons and workers a person of convicted of  sex offence isn't safe or appropriate to have around. 

Obviously all pure conjecture without proof or any charges as yet. Nobody can say for certain until its all come to pass but I wouldn't be surprised if they took that stance. Especially as the add on would be he takes them to court as it costly to his career, the argument could be made it was his actions that cost him.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 1, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Interesting points. Can't 100% say for certain whether they would extend or remove the invite until whatever happens to him happens. However with the Masters players hit the qualifying criteria in order to be offered the invite, I wouldn't have thought that it guarantees anything and would still be at their discretion as its their invitational tournament run by them seperate to any tours. He could try to take them to court  and I maybe wrong here but I don't see him winning a case against them as they set the criteria for entry and they send the invites, they could argue if he is convicted that they feel it in the interests of their members, patrons and workers a person of convicted of  sex offence isn't safe or appropriate to have around. 

Obviously all pure conjecture without proof or any charges as yet. Nobody can say for certain until its all come to pass but I wouldn't be surprised if they took that stance. Especially as the add on would be he takes them to court as it costly to his career, the argument could be made it was his actions that cost him.
		
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Yes I can see your argument!
But what about an invite to a former champion that has admitted damaging greens and tees.

If Olsen serves his sentence if convicted ,he has paid his dept to society ????
Not sure if Tiger was convicted of drug driving ( quite dangerous to others) bet he gets invited.

Just playing devils advocate, but if itâ€™s true he deserves all he gets, but innocent until proven guilty and nobody should be punished before conviction.


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## Wolf (Aug 2, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I can see your argument!
But what about an invite to a former champion that has admitted damaging greens and tees.

If Olsen serves his sentence if convicted ,he has paid his dept to society ????
Not sure if Tiger was convicted of drug driving ( quite dangerous to others) bet he gets invited.

Just playing devils advocate, but if itâ€™s true he deserves all he gets, but innocent until proven guilty and nobody should be punished before conviction.
		
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Agree with everything you say, that's why I said all conjecture without proof or charges. We don't know the full extent of what's happened and the report itself is a little contradictory in that it's says he made a pass at a woman, then later says assaulted that's a big leap between the 2. With Sergio I think he should have been sanctioned by the tours but that's a seperate issue and compared to potential sexual assualt a mere misdemeanour, as for Tiger they may make the argument the only person he hurt was himself etc. We don't kniw what will happen we can merely speculate


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## tugglesf239 (Aug 2, 2019)

What a legend


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 2, 2019)

What a way to effectively pan your career. Can't see too many sponsors in the future rushing to sign him up and wonder how long his current ones will stick around. I would guess until the court case and bin him if found guilty. I would be surprised if Augusta offered him an invite (does he meet qualifying criteria anyway??)


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## backwoodsman (Aug 2, 2019)

If true, it would be appalling behaviour and he'd deserve everything he gets for it. 

But..  the piece has an awful lot of quotation marks in it, meaning much can't be relied upon as fact. I think I'll reserve judgement until the full story comes out.


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## Tiger man (Aug 2, 2019)

tugglesf239 said:



			What a legend 

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LADZ, LADS, LADS!


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## howbow88 (Aug 2, 2019)

Forgetting any potential conviction, there is a fair chance that BA will ban him if what has been reported is true. The airline I work for has banned people for far less. 

From a practicality point of view, this will be a massive pain for him.


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## Jacko_G (Aug 6, 2019)

He's to appear in court at a later date. 

USPGA have also issued a statement and they're not impressed with the behaviour and negative press since he was returning from one of their tournaments. This could run a bit yet. 

It also says the sexual assault was molesting another passenger. 

https://www.golfmagic.com/golf-news/olesen-accused-sexual-assault-now-appear-london-court


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 7, 2019)

Now on BBC that he has been charged with common assault, sexual assault and being drunk on a plane.   Can't appear to add the link from the iPad.


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## Coffey (Aug 7, 2019)

He has just been suspended by the ET.

https://www.bunkered.co.uk/golf-news/thorbjorn-olesen-suspended-by-european-tour


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## Tashyboy (Aug 7, 2019)

Sorted BIM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/49257562


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## Jacko_G (Aug 7, 2019)

Brilliant news, just can't act like that.


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## User20204 (Aug 7, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Brilliant news, just can't act like that.
		
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Would hate to be up on a charge if you were on the jury.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 7, 2019)

Whilst you would like to think that if he has been charged there is substantial evidence of wrongdoing, until that is proven he remains an innocent man. If it transpires that he is not guilty, where do the ET stand re potential loss of earnings?


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## Jacko_G (Aug 7, 2019)

Blue in Munich said:



			Whilst you would like to think that if he has been charged there is substantial evidence of wrongdoing, until that is proven he remains an innocent man. If it transpires that he is not guilty, where do the ET stand re potential loss of earnings?
		
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They will use the "bringing the Tour into disrepute" line which will cover a multitude of sins. I'm sure they will have done their own legal homework prior to making this decision.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 7, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			They will use the "bringing the Tour into disrepute" line which will cover a multitude of sins. I'm sure they will have done their own legal homework prior to making this decision.
		
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Surely they canâ€™t have seen the evidence before a trial, so they are going on hearsay and opinions.
So much for innocent until proven guilty.
He will get whatâ€™s coming to him ,but at the moment itâ€™s still an allegation.


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## Jacko_G (Aug 7, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Surely they canâ€™t have seen the evidence before a trial, so they are going on hearsay and opinions.
So much for innocent until proven guilty.
He will get whatâ€™s coming to him ,but at the moment itâ€™s still an allegation.
		
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Regardless of all that bringing the Tour into disrepute will be a catch all to cover a multitude of sins. 

They won't have done anything that they feel they're not entitled to do. I'd be shocked if they haven't had legal consultation prior to arriving at that decision.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 7, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Regardless of all that bringing the Tour into disrepute will be a catch all to cover a multitude of sins. 

They won't have done anything that they feel they're not entitled to do. I'd be shocked if they haven't had legal consultation prior to arriving at that decision.
		
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No dought .
This is one of my pet hates about the modern world.
An allegation is now seen as gospel by employers , press.etc . No smoke without fire.
Itâ€™s getting to the stage where nobody can get a fair trial because itâ€™s been on social media for everyone to discuss ( irony button) 
Look what happened to Cliff Richard.
If true he deserves all he gets , but what if heâ€™s found innocent and misses the Ryder cup by a point.


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## Jacko_G (Aug 7, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			No dought .
This is one of my pet hates about the modern world.
An allegation is now seen as gospel by employers , press.etc . No smoke without fire.
Itâ€™s getting to the stage where nobody can get a fair trial because itâ€™s been on social media for everyone to discuss ( irony button)
Look what happened to Cliff Richard.
If true he deserves all he gets , but what if heâ€™s found innocent and misses the Ryder cup by a point.
		
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Then he should have conducted himself in a more appropriate manner. 

Police clearly have enough "evidence" to submit a report.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 7, 2019)

Good move by the ET tour to ban him pending the outcome on the 21st. Police and magistrates clearly think there's a case to be answered so without knowing the full in and outs it's not looking good for him


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 7, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Then he should have conducted himself in a more appropriate manner. 

Police clearly have enough "evidence" to submit a report.
		
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I am not disagreeing with you .
But until found guilty itâ€™s an allegation ,dosnt matter how much the police have.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 7, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Good move by the ET tour to ban him pending the outcome on the 21st. Police and magistrates clearly think there's a case to be answered so without knowing the full in and outs it's not looking good for him
		
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I completely disagree heâ€™s been banned from his job before being found guilty!
IF he is found guilty thatâ€™s when he should be punished.


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## Slab (Aug 7, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



*Good move by the ET tour to ban him pending the outcome on the 21st. Police and magistrates *clearly think there's a case to be answered so without knowing the full in and outs it's not looking good for him
		
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I don't think they've banned him. I read he was suspended pending an investigation
Has this case been before a magistrate yet (even provisionally)?


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## Orikoru (Aug 7, 2019)

Slab said:



			I don't think they've banned him. *I read he was suspended pending an investigation*
Has this case been before a magistrate yet (even provisionally)?
		
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But if that was someone working a normal job they'd still get paid, but for him it means he can't enter tournaments so he can't earn anything. So in essence the same as being 'banned'.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 7, 2019)

Slab said:



			I don't think they've banned him. I read he was suspended pending an investigation
Has this case been before a magistrate yet (even provisionally)?
		
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My mistake. Appears before magistrates on 21st https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/49257562


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## Slab (Aug 7, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			But if that was someone working a normal job they'd still get paid, but for him it means he can't enter tournaments so he can't earn anything. So in essence the same as being 'banned'.
		
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I don't know but I'd hazard a guess there's an important distinction between the two terms for the ET & its members (not that it compels a forum user to use the correct term instead of making up their own, but why not just use the correct one?)


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## Imurg (Aug 7, 2019)

There's probably a clause in the conditions of membership of the Tour that you have to keep your nose clean
And he's still being paid by sponsors....for now.


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## Jacko_G (Aug 8, 2019)

So the charges are, sexual assault, common assault and being drunk on an aircraft. 

How to throw away a career. Utter madness.


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## patricks148 (Aug 8, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			So the charges are, sexual assault, common assault and being drunk on an aircraft.

How to throw away a career. Utter madness.
		
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a good brief, get him off no problem, look at all the high profile EPL that have got off with far worse


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## Beezerk (Aug 8, 2019)

patricks148 said:



			a good brief, get him off no problem, look at all the high profile EPL that have got off with far worse
		
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I dunno mate, whenever I read a story about people getting arrested on planes it usually ends up with them getting time or the likes.
Loads of witnesses in a confined space, probably someone filmed it on a phone, tough one for him. I wonder what evidence Poulter will give.


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## Jacko_G (Aug 8, 2019)

patricks148 said:



			a good brief, get him off no problem, look at all the high profile EPL that have got off with far worse
		
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A plane full of witnesses. Good luck.

Regardless of conviction or not the sponsorship deals will "dry" up, let's be honest nobody in today's society will want to be associated with someone who has had a sexual assault allegation against them.


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## *TQ* (Aug 8, 2019)

It was in first class so there won't be a lot of witnesses most first class cabins are only around a dozen seats and they may not all have been taken.


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## patricks148 (Aug 8, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			A plane full of witnesses. Good luck.

Regardless of conviction or not the sponsorship deals will "dry" up, let's be honest nobody in today's society will want to be associated with someone who has had a sexual assault allegation against them.
		
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Christiano Ranaldo still seams to do ok


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## patricks148 (Aug 8, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			I dunno mate, whenever I read a story about people getting arrested on planes it usually ends up with them getting time or the likes.
Loads of witnesses in a confined space, probably someone filmed it on a phone, tough one for him. I wonder what evidence Poulter will give.
		
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Of course, but how many celebs, footballers get done DD and sexual offences and get off. good QC, humble and appologetic  get councelling etc..naughty boy fineor the like... i'm not cynical or anything


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## Orikoru (Aug 8, 2019)

Witnesses can be paid off...


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## Dibby (Aug 8, 2019)

*TQ* said:



			It was in first class so there won't be a lot of witnesses most first class cabins are only around a dozen seats and they may not all have been taken.
		
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When I fly transatlantic in first, it's usually about 20 seats, plus you have 2-4 dedicated cabin crew for the cabin, additionally, the pilot will have reported the incident to air traffic control, and the police will have tested his alcohol level on arrival. I think 20-25 witnesses would be hard to bury.


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## Slab (Aug 8, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			A plane full of witnesses. Good luck.

Regardless of conviction or not *the sponsorship deals will "dry" up, let's be honest nobody in today's society will want to be associated with someone who has had a sexual assault allegation against them*.
		
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He's with Nike isn't he? 


He'll be fine


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## bobmac (Aug 8, 2019)

What a shame. A guy gets drunk, makes an arse of himself and loses everything, while other people commit much worse crimes and nothing gets done.
At the end of the day, was anyone hurt or injured?


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 8, 2019)

bobmac said:



			What a shame. A guy gets drunk, makes an arse of himself and loses everything, while other people commit much worse crimes and nothing gets done.
At the end of the day, was anyone hurt or injured?
		
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Up to a point I agree Bob but as a sponsor, would you want to be associated with someone charged (and for arguments sake - found guilty) of these charges. It won't sit well with potential buyers and consumers. At the end of the day, these guys know they are in the public eye and so being responsible while in the public domain seems to be a given and I am sure when they get on tour, sign with a management company etc, they are given chapter and verse on what to and what not to do and how behave


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 8, 2019)

bobmac said:



			What a shame. A guy gets drunk, makes an arse of himself and loses everything, while other people commit much worse crimes and nothing gets done.
At the end of the day, was anyone hurt or injured?
		
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If proven sexual assault is very serious!
But I do remember the reporter in the White House who argued with Trump was accused of just that for merely touching the arm of a woman staff member  when she tried to remove the mic from him.

So these allegations have to be proven in court, and until they are or not he is an innocent man!

But as I said earlier accusations seem to be enough for some people!!!


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## Orikoru (Aug 8, 2019)

bobmac said:



			What a shame. A guy gets drunk, makes an arse of himself and loses everything, while other people commit much worse crimes and nothing gets done.
At the end of the day, was anyone hurt or injured?
		
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I slightly agree, but when a sexual assault is implicated then there will always be severe consequences. We're not in the days where slapping a stewardesses backside was deemed ok. (Or whoever it was.)


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## bobmac (Aug 8, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Up to a point I agree Bob but as a sponsor, would you want to be associated with someone charged (and for arguments sake - found guilty) of these charges. It won't sit well with potential buyers and consumers. At the end of the day, these guys know they are in the public eye and so being responsible while in the public domain seems to be a given and I am sure when they get on tour, sign with a management company etc, they are given chapter and verse on what to and what not to do and how behave
		
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Even in America they get 3 strikes



clubchamp98 said:



			If proven sexual assault is very serious!
But I do remember the reporter in the White House who argued with Trump was accused of just that for merely touching the arm of a woman staff member  when she tried to remove the mic from him.

So these allegations have to be proven in court, and until they are or not he is an innocent man!

But as I said earlier accusations seem to be enough for some people!!!
		
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We don't know what happened and what the ''sexual assault'' was but as you say, it could be something of nothing.
It's a shame it couldn't of been handled in house with a ban or hefty fine.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 8, 2019)

It becomes way more serious when someone gets out of hand mid air. The consequences are so much more.


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## Jacko_G (Aug 8, 2019)

bobmac said:



			What a shame. A guy gets drunk, makes an arse of himself and loses everything, while other people commit much worse crimes and nothing gets done.
At the end of the day, was anyone hurt or injured?
		
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Would you be as placid/understanding if it was your wife/daughter involved in one part of his "misdemeanor"?


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## bobmac (Aug 8, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Would you be as placid/understanding if it was your wife/daughter involved in one part of his "misdemeanor"?
		
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I don't have either so can't comment, but I can repeat we don't know what the assault was, but many have got away with a lot worse


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 8, 2019)

bobmac said:



			Even in America they get 3 strikes
		
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And the American public seem far more forgiving of their sports stars and celebrities once they've been seen to have paid their dues. Personally I don't like any idea of 3 strikes as it gives some form of mitigation to repeat the offence after the first time. If Olesen has broken the law, I'd rather he be arrested and dealt with as anyone else would be. Once he has done time, paid fine, found not guilty or whatever plays out then I do think he is entitled to some leeway to try and pick up the pieces and get back to a semblance of normality and play golf


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 8, 2019)

bobmac said:



			Even in America they get 3 strikes



We don't know what happened and what the ''sexual assault'' was but as you say, it could be something of nothing.
It's a shame it couldn't of been handled in house with a ban or hefty fine.
		
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No you canâ€™t do that!
How many sex scandals are coming out now because it wasnâ€™t handled â€œin house â€œ so they got away Scot free!
Just because others have been treated to lenient dosnt mean he should get a slap on the wrist.
If proven guilty obviously.


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## Dibby (Aug 8, 2019)

bobmac said:



			I don't have either so can't comment, but I can repeat we don't know what the assault was, but many have got away with a lot worse
		
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In essence, it boils down to whether you think the things he did should be crimes or you think they shouldn't.

It doesn't matter what others got away with, either those things are wrong and we should provide justice where possible, or those things are fine and we should punish no one. No doubt there are quite a few people on this earth who have got away with murder and rape, so should we now let all murderers and rapists off, because many others have gotten away with it?


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 8, 2019)

bobmac said:



			I don't have either so can't comment, but I can repeat we don't know what the assault was, but many have got away with a lot worse
		
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How do you know if we donâ€™t know what it was?
That statement dosnt make sense.


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## bobmac (Aug 8, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			How do you know if we donâ€™t know what it was?
That statement dosnt make sense.
		
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I'm talking about peolpe in a position of trust who rape and molest children with their bosses knowledge and getting away with it.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 8, 2019)

bobmac said:



			I'm talking about peolpe in a position of trust who rape and molest children with their bosses knowledge and getting away with it.
		
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Thatâ€™s rare I would say.
In that case I agree with you but the police canâ€™t do anything if itâ€™s not reported.
Their boss should get the same sentence for hiding it imo


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## bobmac (Aug 8, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thatâ€™s rare I would say.
In that case I agree with you but the police canâ€™t do anything if itâ€™s not reported.
Their boss should get the same sentence for hiding it imo
		
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But they don't, they get promoted.
And if you think its rare, I suggest you watch a film based on a true story called 'Spotlight'


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## drdel (Aug 8, 2019)

The range to things that might be 'sexual' and/or 'assault' is very very wide, emotive and also subjective.

We've even had cases/reports of one guy 'brushing' against another guy. There's the recent assertion by Sturgeon that Boris Johnson was belittling her by stepping aside to allow her through a door first. An act some would alternatively define as courtesy.  

There's a tendency to assume the worst and we might be wise not to condemn too quickly!


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 8, 2019)

bobmac said:



			But they don't, they get promoted.
And if you think its rare, I suggest you watch a film based on a true story called 'Spotlight'
		
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Bob nothing would surprise me these days.
All I am saying is letâ€™s wait to hear what the evidence is before we condemn him.
Seen on news at ten in Russia a riot cop hitting a man with a truncheon on his knees and ankles really gave him a pasting while two of his mates held him down, sickening .


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 8, 2019)

drdel said:



			The range to things that might be 'sexual' and/or 'assault' is very very wide, emotive and also subjective.

We've even had cases/reports of one guy 'brushing' against another guy. There's the recent assertion by Sturgeon that Boris Johnson was belittling her by stepping aside to allow her through a door first. An act some would alternatively define as courtesy.  

There's a tendency to assume the worst and we might be wise not to condemn too quickly!
		
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Must be a nightmare asking a woman out these days , without being accused of something.


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## backwoodsman (Aug 8, 2019)

bobmac said:



			I don't have either so can't comment, but I can repeat we don't know what the assault was, but many have got away with a lot worse
		
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Perhaps people have got away with worse - but two wrongs never make a right. If true, he deserves what he gets.

If it is/was just getting drunk & making a pillock of himself, then yes, it should be the airline who deal with it. But as soon as there is any semblance of endangering a plane or its crew then it needs to be treated seriously. In every case. And sexual assault also needs to be treated very seriously no matter how slight we outsiders may or may not think the action or deed was. And employers, governing bodies, and the like, should take it seriously too. That some don't  doesn't mean that that should be the norm.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 8, 2019)

If he was drunk, two questions; if he was drunk before he got on, why was he allowed on; if he became drunk on the plane, who served him the alcohol?


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## User20204 (Aug 8, 2019)

drdel said:



			There's a tendency to assume the worst and we might be wise not to condemn too quickly!
		
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Some on here have seem to have already been judge and jury, surprised they've not asked for the death penalty back for him.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 8, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			Some on here have seem to have already been judge and jury, surprised they've not asked for the death penalty back for him.
		
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Yeah maybe it was all just a misunderstanding ðŸ™ˆ


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 8, 2019)

Blue in Munich said:



			If he was drunk, two questions; if he was drunk before he got on, why was he allowed on; if he became drunk on the plane, who served him the alcohol?
		
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Valid point but they donâ€™t make him drink it.
Every bar person in the country would be guilty for the behaviour of the punters.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 8, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Valid point but they donâ€™t make him drink it.
*Every bar person in the country would be guilty for the behaviour of the punters.*

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They already are; s. 141 of the Licensing Act.  It might be a question Olesen's defence team will ask at trial.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 8, 2019)

Blue in Munich said:



			They already are; s. 141 of the Licensing Act.  It might be a question Olesen's defence team will ask at trial.
		
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Was he in this country or international airspace ?
Are the laws the same?


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 8, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Was he in this country or international airspace ?
Are the laws the same?
		
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The normal position is that passengers are subject to the laws of the country in which the aircraft is registered once it is in flight, subject to the law of the country it is in when grounded.  He was in flight on a BA flight, charged by the Met Police & is appearing in an English Magistrates court.  So effectively he is in this country, regardless of where he was in the air.  I believe that flight attendants have the same right to refuse service as ground bar staff.


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## Dibby (Aug 9, 2019)

Blue in Munich said:



			The normal position is that passengers are subject to the laws of the country in which the aircraft is registered once it is in flight, subject to the law of the country it is in when grounded.  He was in flight on a BA flight, charged by the Met Police & is appearing in an English Magistrates court.  So effectively he is in this country, regardless of where he was in the air.  I believe that flight attendants have the same right to refuse service as ground bar staff.
		
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I think we are really getting into the unknown now.  There are so many permutations it becomes a silly game:

1. He was drunk before he boarded.
2. He was sober before he boarded.
3. He consumed enough alcohol to be drunk before he boarded, but it hadn't yet been absorbed into the bloodstream, so he appeared sober.

Then for each of the above 3 options:

1. He didn't drink any further on the flight.
2. He was served alcohol whilst appearing drunk.
3. He was served alcohol whilst sober.
4. He was served alcohol whilst appearing sober as the alcohol from previous drinking was not yet absorbed.
5. He drank alcohol ordered by another passenger (with or without their permission, and whom appeared sober\drunk etc..) 
6. He brought his own alcohol onto the plane.
7. His drink was spiked.

There are loads more possibilities, no matter how likely or unlikely. So not much point playing a guessing game, until the facts are revealed.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 9, 2019)

Blue in Munich said:



			The normal position is that passengers are subject to the laws of the country in which the aircraft is registered once it is in flight, subject to the law of the country it is in when grounded.  He was in flight on a BA flight, charged by the Met Police & is appearing in an English Magistrates court.  So effectively he is in this country, regardless of where he was in the air.  I believe that flight attendants have the same right to refuse service as ground bar staff.
		
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Dibby said:



			I think we are really getting into the unknown now.  There are so many permutations it becomes a silly game:

1. He was drunk before he boarded.
2. He was sober before he boarded.
3. He consumed enough alcohol to be drunk before he boarded, but it hadn't yet been absorbed into the bloodstream, so he appeared sober.

Then for each of the above 3 options:

1. He didn't drink any further on the flight.
2. He was served alcohol whilst appearing drunk.
3. He was served alcohol whilst sober.
4. He was served alcohol whilst appearing sober as the alcohol from previous drinking was not yet absorbed.
5. He drank alcohol ordered by another passenger (with or without their permission, and whom appeared sober\drunk etc..)
6. He brought his own alcohol onto the plane.
7. His drink was spiked.

There are loads more possibilities, no matter how likely or unlikely. So not much point playing a guessing game, until the facts are revealed.
		
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And this has what relevance to the post that you quoted?


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## Dibby (Aug 9, 2019)

Blue in Munich said:



			And this has what relevance to the post that you quoted?
		
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The relevance is that we don't even know if the flight attendants served him alcohol or allowed him to board in an apparent state of intoxication, and so, therefore, your post and the few preceding it are going down a rabbit hole that may not even apply to the situation.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 9, 2019)

Dibby said:



			The relevance is that we don't even know if the flight attendants served him alcohol or allowed him to board in an apparent state of intoxication, and so, therefore, your post and the few preceding it are going down a rabbit hole that may not even apply to the situation.
		
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There might be a relevance if you'd quoted the correct post. 

As for going down rabbit holes, the poster with whom I was discussing it & I were quite happy to do so, if we need pulling up over it I'll take that from a Mod.


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## bobmac (Aug 9, 2019)

Dibby said:



			So not much point playing a guessing game, until the facts are revealed.
		
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Too late, he's been found guilty by the media including the ET.


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## Dibby (Aug 9, 2019)

bobmac said:



			Too late, he's been found guilty by the media including the ET.
		
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I think that's a tough one for the ET. He certainly shouldn't be deemed guilty, but equally, he has caused some reputation damage. 

It's a bit of a rock and a hard place scenario for the ET, they do what they've done and they get criticised for punishing a potentially innocent man, they do nothing and they effectively are saying bad behaviour is tolerated, especially if he is found guilty. I think this was a lose-lose, as no matter how, they handled it, some group would have complained.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 9, 2019)

Dibby said:



			I think that's a tough one for the ET. He certainly shouldn't be deemed guilty, but equally, he has caused some reputation damage. 

It's a bit of a rock and a hard place scenario for the ET, they do what they've done and they get criticised for punishing a potentially innocent man, they do nothing and they effectively are saying bad behaviour is tolerated, especially if he is found guilty. I think this was a lose-lose, as no matter how, they handled it, some group would have complained.
		
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He should be punished if and when found guilty! NOT before 
As you say previously we are speculating.


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## Dibby (Aug 9, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			He should be punished if and when found guilty! NOT before
As you say previously we are speculating.
		
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Surely that depends what he is being punished for? Is the ET suspending him for the crime itself, for bringing them into disrepute, or for some other rule he agreed to when he became a member? Whilst he is yet to be proven guilty of the crime, he is guilty of damaging the reputation of the tour.

For most people, in this situation, they would be suspended from work on full pay, whilst investigated, and they may not have this information published globally. The nature of being a touring pro makes doing this impossible.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 9, 2019)

Dibby said:



			I think that's a tough one for the ET. He certainly shouldn't be deemed guilty, but equally, he has caused some reputation damage.

It's a bit of a rock and a hard place scenario for the ET, they do what they've done and they get criticised for punishing a potentially innocent man, they do nothing and they effectively are saying bad behaviour is tolerated, especially if he is found guilty. I think this was a lose-lose, as no matter how, they handled it, some group would have complained.
		
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I agree but in my own opinion I think the ET had to be seen to do something if only to protect its own image. I am sure should Olesen be acquitted at trial he will be given back his full playing privileges, although I am sure the ET disciplinary panel will lay down the law regarding ongoing behaviour in no uncertain terms


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## Dibby (Aug 9, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I agree but in my own opinion I think the ET had to be seen to do something if only to protect its own image. I am sure should Olesen be acquitted at trial he will be given back his full playing privileges, although I am sure the ET disciplinary panel will lay down the law regarding ongoing behaviour in no uncertain terms
		
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If he is acquitted, he potentially has a claim for lost earnings too. Could be a very interesting (and messy) situation.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 9, 2019)

Dibby said:



			Surely that depends what he is being punished for? Is the ET suspending him for the crime itself, for bringing them into disrepute, or for some other rule he agreed to when he became a member? Whilst he is yet to be proven guilty of the crime, he is guilty of damaging the reputation of the tour.

For most people, in this situation, they would be suspended from work on full pay, whilst investigated, and they may not have this information published globally. The nature of being a touring pro makes doing this impossible.
		
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In most I would agree but in your previous post you said â€œsome group would complainâ€
So they are pandering to the twitter/ media circus.
Itâ€™s an accusation at the moment ,nothing more 
The ET are wide open for a lawsuit if he is found not guilty.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 9, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I agree but in my own opinion I think the ET had to be seen to do something if only to protect its own image. I am sure should Olesen be acquitted at trial he will be given back his full playing privileges, although I am sure the ET disciplinary panel will lay down the law regarding ongoing behaviour in no uncertain terms
		
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Has the ET really got an image to protect ?
They did nothing to a major winner who admitted damaging the greens and tees of a tournament course.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 9, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I agree but in my own opinion I think the ET had to be seen to do something if only to protect its own image. I am sure should Olesen be acquitted at trial he will be given back his full playing privileges, although I am sure the ET disciplinary panel will lay down the law regarding ongoing behaviour in no uncertain terms
		
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If he is acquitted how can the ET lay down the law to him?
Acquitted means heâ€™s not guilty and as such hasnâ€™t done anything wrong so how can they justify any further action?


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 9, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Has the ET really got an image to protect ?
They did nothing to a major winner who admitted damaging the greens and tees of a tournament course.
		
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Of course it has an image to protect and while I wouldn't condone Garcia's behaviour, a lot of the negative publicity was confined to golfing social media and press whie Olesen has been platered all over the tabloids and broadsheets and so reaching a wider audience



clubchamp98 said:



			If he is acquitted how can the ET lay down the law to him?
Acquitted means heâ€™s not guilty and as such hasnâ€™t done anything wrong so how can they justify any further action?
		
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I am not suggesting they take further action but I am sure the tour will speak to Olesen about what happened and warn him about his future conduct. Something along the lines of a first written warning in the workplace. No further action at this stage but kept on file for a period of time


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## woofers (Aug 9, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Has the ET really got an image to protect ?
They did nothing to a major winner who admitted damaging the greens and tees of a tournament course.
		
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But the major winner wasn't arrested for damaging the greens and tees of a tournament course.


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## Jacko_G (Aug 9, 2019)

bobmac said:



			Too late, he's been found guilty by the media including the ET.
		
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He has not been found guilty at all by anyone. 

What has happened is "his employers" have taken steps to ensure that he complies with set criteria and they have enforced their own rules to protect themselves for criticism. 

You don't agree, that's fair enough we are all entitled to an opinion.


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## *TQ* (Aug 9, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			If he is acquitted how can the ET lay down the law to him?
Acquitted means heâ€™s not guilty and as such hasnâ€™t done anything wrong so how can they justify any further action?
		
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Whilst I largely agree to a certain extent you could argue that rather than not doing anything wrong, he would actually not have done anything wrong which could be proved to the standard required by the criminal courts, a civil case (or employment law case) could still find him guilty on the balance of probability rather than beyond all reasonable doubt.


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## drdel (Aug 9, 2019)

*TQ* said:



			Whilst I largely agree to a certain extent you could argue that rather than not doing anything wrong, he would actually not have done anything wrong which could be proved to the standard required by the criminal courts, a civil case (or employment law case) could still find him guilty on the balance of probability rather than beyond all reasonable doubt.
		
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Given the exposure on social media, news and the ET action a 'fair' trial could now become  a challenge


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## TheDiablo (Aug 9, 2019)

drdel said:



			Given the exposure on social media, news and the ET action a 'fair' trial could now become  a challenge
		
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I think you're overestimating the reach of this into the general public. 

If I asked my office if theyd heard of him or the event at hand, I'd give it evens that 1% knew what I was on about


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 9, 2019)

woofers said:



			But the major winner wasn't arrested for damaging the greens and tees of a tournament course.
		
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My comment was about image!


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## GB72 (Aug 9, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			He has not been found guilty at all by anyone.

What has happened is "his employers" have taken steps to ensure that he complies with set criteria and they have enforced their own rules to protect themselves for criticism.

You don't agree, that's fair enough we are all entitled to an opinion.
		
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This is where I am confused as to the legal relationship between the tour and the player and the contractual obligations on the part of each other. The tour do not employ him and so it would depend on any contract as to whether they have the right to select who is eligible to play in any given tournament. I would be interested to hear how the legalities between a Tour and a player actually work. As they pick and choose events, often last minute, there is obviously no requirement on the player to enter events but is there an obligation on the tour to allow players of a certain ranking to enter events if they wish to participate. As I said, suspect the relationship is pretty complex.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 9, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			I think you're overestimating the reach of this into the general public. 

If I asked my office if theyd heard of him or the event at hand, I'd give it evens that 1% knew what I was on about
		
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Exactly the image of the ET is not as high as they obviously think.
Suspending an innocent man until proven guilty is just wrong. Imo.


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## User20204 (Aug 9, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Bad enough acting like a lout without getting your tadger out and exposing yourself to the plane never mind urinate.

Filthy disgusting horrible man.

Would love to see the courts hammer him.
		
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Jacko_G said:



			He has not been found guilty at all by anyone.

.
		
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Looks to me like someone has found him guilty


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## Jacko_G (Aug 9, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			Looks to me like someone has found him guilty
		
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Only thing I'm guilty of is quoting what is already in the press. 

Keep trying though.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 9, 2019)

Letâ€™s put some perspective here if he was a teacher and was accused of interfering with the kids I could understand a suspension on safety grounds .
But heâ€™s only a golfer playing golf .
What he is accused of has no relevance to his work .


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## 3puttpercy (Aug 9, 2019)

Drunks on an aircraft are a danger to the safety of passengers and crew.
In an emergency they will disrupt passenger evacuation which could cause lives being lost.
As mentioned they should not get passed check in if already incapable.
But if they do drink airside stopped at the gate.
It is imperative this is done.


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## User20204 (Aug 9, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Only thing I'm guilty of is quoting what is already in the press.

.
		
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My apologies, I thought the....

 "_filthy disgusting horrible man_" and "_Would love to see the courts hammer him."_

Were direct quotes from yourself, got a link to where this was quoted in the press ?


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## Jacko_G (Aug 9, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			My apologies, I thought the....

"_filthy disgusting horrible man_" and "_Would love to see the courts hammer him."_

Were direct quotes from yourself, got a link to where this was quoted in the press ?
		
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You see that's an opinion, not accusing someone on being guilty, as I say keep trolling you may get somewhere eventually. 

Try sticking to one argument at a time.


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## sunshine (Aug 10, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			You see that's an opinion, not accusing someone on being guilty, as I say keep trolling you may get somewhere eventually.

Try sticking to one argument at a time.
		
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You've got lost here trying to defend yourself, maybe go back and read the posts again?


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## Jacko_G (Aug 10, 2019)

sunshine said:



			You've got lost here trying to defend yourself, maybe go back and read the posts again?
		
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I don't require too. 

ðŸ‘


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## Orikoru (Aug 21, 2019)

Apparently he has pleaded not guilty to sexual assault. 

https://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/news...%%emailname_%%&utm_medium=email&utm_source=ET


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 21, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Apparently he has pleaded not guilty to sexual assault.

https://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/news...%%emailname_%%&utm_medium=email&utm_source=ET

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Not surprised though. He clearly feels its not as it happened. See what a court decides


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## Beezerk (Aug 21, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not surprised though. He clearly feels its not as it happened. See what a court decides
		
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Probably can't remember


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## JonnyGutteridge (Aug 21, 2019)

I think it's already been said earlier in the thread

His defence is likely to be that any unusual behaviour was caused by an unexpected reaction caused by sleeping pills, alcohol and altitude. 

I reckon he's screwed.


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## Jacko_G (Sep 19, 2019)

European Tour confirm that he is still suspended until after the court case. Also another charge has been added.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/49742940

Also looks like he is going down the bad reaction to medicine and alcohol route as was suggested earlier in the thread.


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## inc0gnito (Sep 19, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			European Tour confirm that he is still suspended until after the court case. Also another charge has been added.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/49742940


Also looks like he is going down the bad reaction to medicine and alcohol route as was suggested earlier in the thread.
		
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That aul chestnut


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## Pathetic Shark (Sep 21, 2019)

It's about as standard as so-called celebrities posting an abusive or insulting tweet and then claiming their account was hacked.


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## Robster59 (Sep 21, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			European Tour confirm that he is still suspended until after the court case. Also another charge has been added.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/49742940

Also looks like he is going down the bad reaction to medicine and alcohol route as was suggested earlier in the thread.
		
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He shouldn't take the alcohol then. All medicines are clearly marked.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 23, 2019)

medicine makes you get your pecker out on a plane. every days a school day. really.


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## Robster59 (Sep 23, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



 medicine makes you get your pecker out on a plane. every days a school day. really.
		
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Maybe it was Viagra.


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## drdel (Sep 23, 2019)

He's plenty of time to think about it. Court date is about March 2020 (I think) and the Tour has banned him until that's past.


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## howbow88 (Mar 12, 2021)

I randomly remembered this case this morning. Now due in court in December 2021, due to covid backlog... European Tour lifted the suspension as a result, so he did play in some competitions last year.


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## sunshine (Mar 12, 2021)

Feel a bit sorry for the lad. He had broken into the world top 50 in 2018, was starting to win big tournaments and establishing himself at the top table. He's now ranked 419.

Obviously he made a serious mistake, and there should be consequences, but should this destroy his career? Having it hanging over him for 2 years is very tough, especially as we don't really know the details of what happened. Many have judged him already.


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## Marshy77 (Mar 12, 2021)

sunshine said:



			Feel a bit sorry for the lad. He had broken into the world top 50 in 2018, was starting to win big tournaments and establishing himself at the top table. He's now ranked 419.

Obviously he made a serious mistake, and there should be consequences, but should this destroy his career? Having it hanging over him for 2 years is very tough, especially as we don't really know the details of what happened. Many have judged him already.
		
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Similar was said about a young lad who played football for Bradford. Case delayed for what seemed a long time, people questioning whether he said be allowed to carry on playing, he made a mistake etc. In the end he was found guilty and he destroyed his own career. 

I'm not comparing the 2 allegations but unfortunately he choose the wrong thing to do. If he was on meds then he shouldn't have drank.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 12, 2021)

I think a major part of the problem is that these cases are in a massive back log of being seen to re Covid. Ryan Giggs is in a similar position re Charges hanging over his head. If they allow them to play, coach or carry on as normal and are found guilty. Folk are going to say something. Damned if you do damned if you don’t.


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## Canary_Yellow (Mar 12, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I think a major part of the problem is that these cases are in a massive back log of being seen to re Covid. Ryan Giggs is in a similar position re Charges hanging over his head. If they allow them to play, coach or carry on as normal and are found guilty. Folk are going to say something. Damned if you do damned if you don’t.
		
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It's a difficult one, but if we take the Adam Johnson case as an example of how it can go wrong, he was charged and bailed in March, maintained he was innocent until the following Feb when he got to court, at which point he changed his plea to guilty.

He was playing and getting paid up until the change of plea, at which point he was immediately sacked.

Very difficult one to judge because whether a suspension is right or wrong will turn on the outcome of the case. It's particularly hard for a golfer as they don't earn unless they're playing, as opposed to a footballer where it seems the right thing is to suspend on full pay pending the outcome of the case.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 12, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I think a major part of the problem is that these cases are in a massive back log of being seen to re Covid. Ryan Giggs is in a similar position re Charges hanging over his head. If they allow them to play, coach or carry on as normal and are found guilty. Folk are going to say something. Damned if you do damned if you don’t.
		
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But on the basis that your innocent until proven guilty he should be able to go to work.
This is one of our biggest rights in law.
But seems to have been forgotten the last few years when being on trial by social media.
What if he is found innocent who does he sue for loss of earnings.?


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## Sats (Mar 13, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			I think a major part of the problem is that these cases are in a massive back log of being seen to re Covid. Ryan Giggs is in a similar position re Charges hanging over his head. If they allow them to play, coach or carry on as normal and are found guilty. Folk are going to say something. Damned if you do damned if you don’t.
		
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Ryan Giggs is on bail, so that would mean conditions were placed upon his release from custody/court. It may be that he's had to surrender his passport, observe a curfew or reside at specific address - I'm making educated guesses here as I don't have anything to do with the investigation. By going with Wales he could be breaching those conditions hence why they decided not to go - he could request for changes in his bail but that is not guaranteed that it would be changed.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 13, 2021)

Sats said:



			Ryan Giggs is on bail, so that would mean conditions were placed upon his release from custody/court. It may be that he's had to surrender his passport, observe a curfew or reside at specific address - I'm making educated guesses here as I don't have anything to do with the investigation. By going with Wales he could be breaching those conditions hence why they decided not to go - he could request for changes in his bail but that is not guaranteed that it would be changed.
		
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Am not sure, I just read he has no involvement for the next three games. But that aside it was just an observation that Covid is dragging things on longer than they normally would. 👍


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## Billysboots (Mar 13, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Am not sure, I just read he has no involvement for the next three games. But that aside it was just an observation that Covid is dragging things on longer than they normally would. 👍
		
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Covid is definitely impacting on Court proceedings, but shouldn’t be having too detrimental an effect on the investigations that take place prior to someone being charged.

Sure, investigators and those they need to liaise with are working in different ways at the moment but, in my experience at least, investigative timescales are largely unchanged.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 13, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Covid is definitely impacting on Court proceedings, but shouldn’t be having too detrimental an effect on the investigations that take place prior to someone being charged.

Sure, investigators and those they need to liaise with are working in different ways at the moment but, in my experience at least, investigative timescales are largely unchanged.
		
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Genuine Question.
Have the staff that do these investigations been cut over the years .?
If so does this have a impact on the amount of cases and the time it takes to prosecute them?
Does that mean more people are out on bail or on remand.


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## Billysboots (Mar 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Genuine Question.
Have the staff that do these investigations been cut over the years .?
If so does this have a impact on the amount of cases and the time it takes to prosecute them?
Does that mean more people are out on bail or on remand.
		
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A good question to which there’s no quick and easy answer I’m afraid.

Overall police numbers are down, but in an attempt to protect core investigation functions most Forces have robbed Peter to pay Paul, and cut numbers elsewhere. Most traffic departments have virtually disappeared, for example, meaning very little expertise is left.

And expertise seems to be a real issue across the board. There is a national shortage of detectives, especially investigating core crime such as robbery, serious assaults and so on, meaning those investigations are now managed too often by either new and inexperienced detectives or uniform officers who don’t have the requisite skills.

I don’t think investigations are necessarily taking longer, although some doubtless are, but the standard has probably suffered and that in itself will cause issues further down the line.

There shouldn’t now be people on police bail for an eternity due to changes in bail legislation. Once someone is charged and in the Court process there is still a lot of work to do, but the current delays in getting cases to trial are Covid related because Courts haven’t been sitting in the traditional way. I shudder to think what the backlog is.

The above is an extremely simplistic answer to a very complex question.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 13, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			A good question to which there’s no quick and easy answer I’m afraid.

Overall police numbers are down, but in an attempt to protect core investigation functions most Forces have robbed Peter to pay Paul, and cut numbers elsewhere. Most traffic departments have virtually disappeared, for example, meaning very little expertise is left.

And expertise seems to be a real issue across the board. There is a national shortage of detectives, especially investigating core crime such as robbery, serious assaults and so on, meaning those investigations are now managed too often by either new and inexperienced detectives or uniform officers who don’t have the requisite skills.

I don’t think investigations are necessarily taking longer, although some doubtless are, but the standard has probably suffered and that in itself will cause issues further down the line.

There shouldn’t now be people on police bail for an eternity due to changes in bail legislation. Once someone is charged and in the Court process there is still a lot of work to do, but the current delays in getting cases to trial are Covid related because Courts haven’t been sitting in the traditional way. I shudder to think what the backlog is.

The above is an extremely simplistic answer to a very complex question.
		
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Yes so fighting with one hand behind your back.
If there is nobody to uphold the law no wonder we are where we are.

I would say this is like a firm not training their own apprentices eventually you run out of skilled people who are not replaced and have to import lesser skilled people at a later date.
But all that knowledge is not passed on that’s such a waste .
Once those skills have gone it’s very hard to get it back.


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## Billysboots (Mar 13, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes so fighting with one hand behind your back.
If there is nobody to uphold the law no wonder we are where we are.

I would say this is like a firm not training their own apprentices eventually you run out of skilled people who are not replaced and have to import lesser skilled people at a later date.
But all that knowledge is not passed on that’s such a waste .
Once those skills have gone it’s very hard to get it back.
		
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It’s certainly not all doom and gloom. Some of the work that is possible these days hadn’t even been dreamed of when I started - we didn’t even have basic desktop computers in 1991.

But there is a bit of an experience vacuum in some disciplines.


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## Sats (Mar 13, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			It’s certainly not all doom and gloom. Some of the work that is possible these days hadn’t even been dreamed of when I started - we didn’t even have basic desktop computers in 1991.

But there is a bit of an experience vacuum in some disciplines.
		
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Yeah there's some with 4-5 years experience swinging the lamp around the place like the RT driver.


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## Jimaroid (Dec 7, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			Sounds like another victim of Ambien.

Silly boy.
		
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Nailed it. Well done, me. 😂


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## Ethan (Dec 7, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			Nailed it. Well done, me. 😂 
	View attachment 39846

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He is responsible, not the zolpidem. He had 5 drinks before boarding and took 2 sedative pills. Alcohol and sedatives are disinhibitory and in combination are well know to cause episodes like this, especially on long haul flights, so perhaps deoxygenation plays a part too. 

Looks like a large fine and a suspended sentence to me. And a ban from whatever airline it was.


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## Jimaroid (Dec 7, 2021)

Ethan said:



			He is responsible, not the zolpidem. He had 5 drinks before boarding and took 2 sedative pills. Alcohol and sedatives are disinhibitory and in combination are well know to cause episodes like this, especially on long haul flights, so perhaps deoxygenation plays a part too.
		
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I was aware, the behaviour was immediately indicative. Like I say, silly boy.


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## Ethan (Dec 8, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			I was aware, the behaviour was immediately indicative. Like I say, silly boy.
		
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Sure, not criticising your comment at all. It is traditional to mount a defence of an idiosyncratic (unusual/unexpected) reaction, though.


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## Slab (Dec 8, 2021)

Just announced... 

Not guilty of the criminal charges


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## srixon 1 (Dec 8, 2021)

Slab said:



			Just announced...

Not guilty of the criminal charges
		
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Lucky boy. He could have ended up on the sex offenders register if it had gone the other way, or worse.


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## Canary_Yellow (Dec 8, 2021)

I’m glad - the punishment he’s endured for the last 2 and a bit years is more than sufficient for his conduct. He’s learned a very tough lesson already. What happened is very unpleasant, but ending his career would have been too much for me.


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## JonnyGutteridge (Dec 8, 2021)

I’d suggest he has a brilliant lawyer.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 8, 2021)

I'm not sure cabin crew around the world will be feeling too happy right now. Whilst I feel some sympathy for Olesen I feel more for the staff he was deeply unpleasant to. Surely you can't absolve all responsibility like that?


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## Ethan (Dec 8, 2021)

I feel little sympathy for him. He may well not remember what he did, but he wasn't slipped these pills against his will. He took prescription pills for which he did not have a prescription after 5 alcoholic drinks. He then owns all that results. In my opinion, the disinhibition caused by such a cocktail does not change the true personality, it reveals it.


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## Canary_Yellow (Dec 8, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm not sure cabin crew around the world will be feeling too happy right now. Whilst I feel some sympathy for Olesen I feel more for the staff he was deeply unpleasant to. Surely you can't absolve all responsibility like that?
		
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It certainly feels like he should be guilty of some kind of criminal offence, even if not the ones he was charged with.


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## Imurg (Dec 8, 2021)

So..open season on a couple of jars and some pills then......could be a raucous summer next year..


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 8, 2021)

Disappointing for the staff involved and doesn't send a good message. Other travellers (not just the celebs) will see it as a green light to have a load of booze, take some pills and hang the consequence


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## Canary_Yellow (Dec 8, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Disappointing for the staff involved and doesn't send a good message. Other travellers (not just the celebs) will see it as a green light to have a load of booze, take some pills and hang the consequence
		
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I don’t think that’s right, or perhaps I’m misconstruing what you’re saying. 

I’m pretty sure though if the pills had been taken for recreational use as opposed to with the plan of sleeping, olesen could not have relied on the particular defence that he did.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 8, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			I don’t think that’s right, or perhaps I’m misconstruing what you’re saying.

I’m pretty sure though if the pills had been taken for recreational use as opposed to with the plan of sleeping, olesen could not have relied on the particular defence that he did.
		
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As others have alluded to, this seemed to be a standard defence for this type of incident. He took a cocktail of drink and drugs and couldn't remember what he was doing. I would argue if you did that on a flight back from your holidays (if we are ever allowed to travel freely again) then if you applied the same defence it wouldn't work out as well. Perhaps being "known" with a few quid allows you to buy a good defence team


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## Canary_Yellow (Dec 8, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			As others have alluded to, this seemed to be a standard defence for this type of incident. He took a cocktail of drink and drugs and couldn't remember what he was doing. I would argue if you did that on a flight back from your holidays (if we are ever allowed to travel freely again) then if you applied the same defence it wouldn't work out as well. Perhaps being "known" with a few quid allows you to buy a good defence team
		
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I’ve no idea on whether it’s a standard defence, I’m certainly no expert on these matters, I’ll take your word on it.

It’s also not really relevant to my point, which was that my understanding is that this isn’t going to result in the “green light” that you suggested because the defence relies on more than just a lack of memory. It relies on previous exemplary character and demonstrating that the sleeping pills were taken for the purpose of sleeping rather than partying.

That’s just based on my understanding of the argument though, im sure a legal eagle can point it out if that’s not correct. It’s probably covered in one or more of the other cases where this has been used as the standard defence. You could probably check what they were based on if you’re interested / concerned about the wider ramifications of the olesen case.


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## hairball_89 (Dec 8, 2021)

Ethan said:



			I feel little sympathy for him. He may well not remember what he did, but he wasn't slipped these pills against his will. He took prescription pills for which he did not have a prescription after 5 alcoholic drinks. He then owns all that results. In my opinion, the disinhibition caused by such a cocktail does not change the true personality, it reveals it.
		
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It's this for me. Private plan and shedloads of cash for a lawyer or not, if you get your appendage out, urinate in public and hurl abuse you deserve the book thrown at you. Ridiculous IMO.


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## Foxholer (Dec 8, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			As others have alluded to, this seemed to be a standard defence for this type of incident....
		
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Perhaps because it's 'the standard reason' it happens!
Not that I am in any way condoning what happened. In fact, loss of his income notwithstanding, I'm disappointed there doesn't seem to have been any 'compensation to the victims' involved/applied/required.


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## Billysboots (Dec 8, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			I’ve no idea on whether it’s a standard defence, I’m certainly no expert on these matters, I’ll take your word on it.

It’s also not really relevant to my point, which was that my understanding is that this isn’t going to result in the “green light” that you suggested because the defence relies on more than just a lack of memory. It relies on previous exemplary character and demonstrating that the sleeping pills were taken for the purpose of sleeping rather than partying.

That’s just based on my understanding of the argument though, im sure a legal eagle can point it out if that’s not correct. It’s probably covered in one or more of the other cases where this has been used as the standard defence. You could probably check what they were based on if you’re interested / concerned about the wider ramifications of the olesen case.
		
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Automatism is a recognised defence, occasionally raised in road traffic cases, and is not really about an inability to remember, but about a defendant’s actions being involuntary.

I haven’t really followed this case closely, but it seems automatism has been raised as a defence on the basis that the cocktail of drink and drugs was such that the defendant acted entirely involuntarily.

I’m not a fan of it as a defence. I’m an ex-cop, for one! But a bigger issue for me is that it is very difficult to counter if argued effectively. Remember, a defence only has to introduce reasonable doubt for a defendant to be acquitted.


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## Canary_Yellow (Dec 8, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Automatism is a recognised defence, occasionally raised in road traffic cases, and is not really about an inability to remember, but about a defendant’s actions being involuntary.

I haven’t really followed this case closely, but it seems automatism has been raised as a defence on the basis that the cocktail of drink and drugs was such that the defendant acted entirely involuntarily.

I’m not a fan of it as a defence. I’m an ex-cop, for one! But a bigger issue for me is that it is very difficult to counter if argued effectively. Remember, a defence only has to introduce reasonable doubt for a defendant to be acquitted.
		
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Yes, and as a question of fact it’s for the jury to decide. Which is what I was getting at with references to his character and the intent with which he took the pills. 

Presumably to succeed with the argument, as a starting point the pills taken must be capable of that effect? I believe this one is a potential date rape drug, so would seem feasible.

My wife and I both did jury service recently, which was eye opening, particularly actually when it comes to the ability of defence barristers to muddy the waters and introduce shades of grey.


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## Billysboots (Dec 8, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Yes, and as a question of fact it’s for the jury to decide. Which is what I was getting at with references to his character and the intent with which he took the pills.

Presumably to succeed with the argument, as a starting point the pills taken must be capable of that effect? I believe this one is a potential date rape drug, so would seem feasible.

My wife and I both did jury service recently, which was eye opening, particularly actually when it comes to the ability of defence barristers to muddy the waters and introduce shades of grey.
		
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The pills would certainly have to be capable of inducing the kind of response alleged. 

One example of automatism regularly cited is if a driver suffers a sneezing fit at the wheel and has a collision as a direct result. The defence would be that, during such an episode, a driver would have little or no control over a car.

And this is where it perhaps becomes a difficult defence, which is perhaps why it is rarely used. Something like that is as difficult to prove as it is to disprove, so can be considered a risky defence.

You’re absolutely bang on about defence barristers. Courtroom drama is very real, and at times borders on acting. I’ve come up against some absolutely brilliant defence barristers. And many who try and pull some outrageous stunts. Shades of grey is what it’s all about - they don’t need to prove their client’s innocence, after all, merely introduce doubt.


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## Canary_Yellow (Dec 8, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			The pills would certainly have to be capable of inducing the kind of response alleged.

One example of automatism regularly cited is if a driver suffers a sneezing fit at the wheel and has a collision as a direct result. The defence would be that, during such an episode, a driver would have little or no control over a car.

And this is where it perhaps becomes a difficult defence, which is perhaps why it is rarely used. Something like that is as difficult to prove as it is to disprove, so can be considered a risky defence.

You’re absolutely bang on about defence barristers. Courtroom drama is very real, and at times borders on acting. I’ve come up against some absolutely brilliant defence barristers. And many who try and pull some outrageous stunts. Shades of grey is what it’s all about - they don’t need to prove their client’s innocence, after all, merely introduce doubt.
		
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Thank you, I think that’s encouraging, and to my point, that this case is unlikely to open a floodgate of people popping pills and not taking responsibility for themselves and getting away with it.

In this case, I think olesen has actually suffered quite a bit without being found guilty, which might not be the case for your average Joe!


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## Ethan (Dec 8, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			Perhaps because it's 'the standard reason' it happens!
Not that I am in any way condoning what happened. In fact, loss of his income notwithstanding, I'm disappointed there doesn't seem to have been any 'compensation to the victims' involved/applied/required.
		
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If someone used the defence that they had 10 pints and a couple of vodkas and it is therefore not their fault they acted like a total Richard, would you accept that defence?


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## Canary_Yellow (Dec 8, 2021)

Ethan said:



			If someone used the defence that they had 10 pints and a couple of vodkas and it is therefore not their fault they acted like a total Richard, would you accept that defence?
		
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 No, because alcohol isn’t capable of having that effect. Also, anyone that did that would definitely be guilty of being drunk on a plane!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 8, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			I’m glad - the *punishment* he’s endured for the last 2 and a bit years is more than sufficient for his conduct. He’s learned a very tough lesson already. What happened is very unpleasant, but ending his career would have been too much for me.
		
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Canary_Yellow said:



			It certainly feels like he *should be guilty of some kind of criminal offence*, even if not the ones he was charged with.
		
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Canary_Yellow said:



			Thank you, I think that’s encouraging, and to my point, that this case is unlikely to open a floodgate of people popping pills and not taking responsibility for themselves and getting away with it.

In this case, *I think olesen has actually suffered quite a bit without being found guilty*, which might not be the case for your average Joe!
		
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I apologise, but aren’t you sending some mixed messages here?

Plus I’m not too sure on your definition’s of punishment and suffered.

What about a shout out to the sexual abuse the stewardess actually suffered, I’m not too convinced she’s feeling that protected tonight and as others have stated his ability to pay for a top lawyer will of helped.

By all means we have to trust the British Justice System, I’m just not sure we should be looking at him as some sort of victim in all this.


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## Ethan (Dec 8, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			No, because alcohol isn’t capable of having that effect. Also, anyone that did that would definitely be guilty of being drunk on a plane!
		
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Oh, alcohol is most certainly capable of having that effect.

And I guarantee you that was not his first rodeo. Maybe first on a plane, but I bet there have been some others.


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## Billysboots (Dec 8, 2021)

Ethan said:



			Oh, alcohol is most certainly capable of having that effect.
		
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I’m not sure a defence of automatism in these circumstances would succeed if the defendant was simply drunk, primarily because he could realistically expect his behaviour to worsen when alcohol was consumed to excess.

I suspect the defence was successful because not only were his actions argued to be involuntary, but also unforeseen.

It’s a defence I’ve never been comfortable with, as it can be used in circumstances it perhaps wasn’t really intended for. Read into that what you will.


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## Ethan (Dec 8, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I’m not sure a defence of automatism in these circumstances would succeed if the defendant was simply drunk, primarily because he could realistically expect his behaviour to worsen when alcohol was consumed to excess.

I suspect the defence was successful because not only were his actions argued to be involuntary, but also unforeseen.

It’s a defence I’ve never been comfortable with, as it can be used in circumstances it perhaps wasn’t really intended for. Read into that what you will.
		
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Ambien is very well known in the US and there have been more than a few celebs who have lost it on Ambien, especially when mixed with alcohol at altitude. I think it was reasonably foreseeable.


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## Billysboots (Dec 8, 2021)

Ethan said:



			Ambien is very well known in the US and there have been more than a few celebs who have lost it on Ambien, especially when mixed with alcohol at altitude. I think it was reasonably foreseeable.
		
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In which case I’m surprised the defence succeeded, but as I say, I haven’t followed the case closely.

I’ve never seen automatism raised as a defence in an assault case. It’s rarely used at all, and we can perhaps see why. I’m not sure I’d be happy putting my fate in the hands of a jury relying on it, that’s for sure.


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## Jimaroid (Dec 8, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			but also unforeseen.
		
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That is the part I’m struggling with as the effects of alcohol and Ambien on long haul flights are well documented.

edit. Ethan beat me.


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## Foxholer (Dec 8, 2021)

Ethan said:



			If someone used the defence that they had 10 pints and a couple of vodkas and it is therefore not their fault they acted like a total Richard, would you accept that defence?
		
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No!


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## Billysboots (Dec 8, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			No!
		
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Likewise.


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## Foxholer (Dec 8, 2021)

Ethan said:



			Ambien is very well known in the US and there have been more than a few celebs who have lost it on Ambien, especially when mixed with alcohol at altitude. I think it was reasonably foreseeable.
		
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Perhaps there should be some 'standard' questions/tests asked at check-in (or elsewhere) so that such possibilities can be avoided in future. I know I've been 'stranded' in one of Edinburgh's pre-flight lounges (waiting for Gordon Brown to arrive) for long enough to imbibe sufficient to be incapable of driving home after landing!


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## Canary_Yellow (Dec 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I apologise, but aren’t you sending some mixed messages here?

Plus I’m not too sure on your definition’s of punishment and suffered.

What about a shout out to the sexual abuse the stewardess actually suffered, I’m not too convinced she’s feeling that protected tonight and as others have stated his ability to pay for a top lawyer will of helped.

By all means we have to trust the British Justice System, I’m just not sure we should be looking at him as some sort of victim in all this.
		
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I can’t see any mixed messages.

I don’t think there’s any question that he did the things that he was accused of, and therefore to me it seems like he should be guilty of an offence, even if he’s not guilty of the offences he was charged with. I’m not an expert though, maybe there weren’t alternative charges, or the CPS were sufficiently certain of a conviction for the harsher charges that they didn’t go for something lesser.

Again though, as horrible as what he did was, he’s been found not guilty of a crime. In that time since the incident though he wasn’t allowed to work for 12 months, and his career has suffered considerable damage. Don’t know if it is any consolation to the cabin crew members that were subjected to his indecent behaviour, but I do think he has been punished and I hope it is some consolation to them. 

If he had been convicted, the sentence itself would have been nothing compared to the loss of his career. Maybe I’m wrong, I strongly suspect he’s learned his lesson already.


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## Beedee (Dec 8, 2021)

Ethan said:



			<snip>In my opinion, the disinhibition caused by such a cocktail does not change the true personality, it reveals it.
		
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I must admit I try to be unusually careful in work socials these days.  I've found that intoxication can lead to accidental honesty.  And that might not go down well with managers! ;-)


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## Slab (Dec 9, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Disappointing for the staff involved and doesn't send a good message.* Other travellers (not just the celebs) will see it as a green light to have a load of booze, take some pills and hang the consequence*

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I'd be really stupid if I lived my life & made decisions based on the outcome of actions by others

As kids we probably all tried this 'defense' to our parents when we're caught doing something wrong... but Jimmy did it!
And no wonder parents replied with... " if Jimmy jumped off a bridge would you do it too?"

Most of society will have left your rationale (in bold) firmly behind them in childhood


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 9, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			I can’t see any mixed messages.

I don’t think there’s any question that he did the things that he was accused of, and therefore to me it seems like he should be guilty of an offence, even if he’s not guilty of the offences he was charged with. I’m not an expert though, maybe there weren’t alternative charges, or the CPS were sufficiently certain of a conviction for the harsher charges that they didn’t go for something lesser.

Again though, as horrible as what he did was, he’s been found not guilty of a crime. In that time since the incident though he wasn’t allowed to work for 12 months, and his career has suffered considerable damage. Don’t know if it is any consolation to the cabin crew members that were subjected to his indecent behaviour, but I do think he has been punished and I hope it is some consolation to them.

If he had been convicted, the sentence itself would have been nothing compared to the loss of his career. Maybe I’m wrong, I strongly suspect he’s learned his lesson already.
		
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The mixed message is in one reply you believe he’s guilty of something, in the other 2 you describe him almost as a victim, I don’t see how he can be both.

If they’d of gone for lesser charges and he’d of been found guilty then surely any punishment or suffering he’d of endured would of been his own fault surely?

And as Ethan had already put, this probably wasn’t his first rodeo.

He’s a very lucky bloke.


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## Canary_Yellow (Dec 9, 2021)

I’ve tried, not very successfully, to avoid simply repeating myself! 



pauldj42 said:



			The mixed message is in one reply you believe he’s guilty of something, in the other 2 you describe him almost as a victim, I don’t see how he can be both. *I can’t explain it any more clearly than I already have and there’s no point repeating myself*

If they’d of gone for lesser charges and he’d of been found guilty then surely any punishment or suffering he’d of endured would of been his own fault surely? *But he wasn’t so it’s not relevant and I haven’t made any comment on that.*

And as Ethan had already put, this probably wasn’t his first rodeo. *That’s speculation, isn’t it? I’ve no idea if that’s true*

He’s a very lucky bloke. *Sort of, ultimately he’s innocent in the eyes of the law but he’s endured a rough 30 months that have cost him financially and mentally. On the other hand, doesn’t sound like there’s much doubt about whether physically he did what he did, so yes, I can see that view too*.
		
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## fenwayrich (Dec 9, 2021)

Very surprising that the criminal law allows someone to knowingly put all that junk into their system and then be absolved of responsibility for their subsequent actions.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 9, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			I’ve tried, not very successfully, to avoid simply repeating myself!
		
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From your first post yesterday you have made it like he’s suffered, you mention mental health and others, aren’t you speculating just as much as Ethan or anyone else? 

For all you/we know he could of been playing Golf everyday while laughing all the way to the bank with the money he already has, yet you tell us he’s had a rough 30 months.


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## Canary_Yellow (Dec 9, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			From your first post yesterday you have made it like he’s suffered, you mention mental health and others, aren’t you speculating just as much as Ethan or anyone else?

For all you/we know he could of been playing Golf everyday while laughing all the way to the bank with the money he already has, yet you tell us he’s had a rough 30 months.
		
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I’ve already made my thoughts very clear and I don’t have anything to add. If you don’t agree, that’s your prerogative in the same way it’s mine not to agree with your view.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 9, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			I’ve already made my thoughts very clear and I don’t have anything to add. If you don’t agree, that’s your prerogative in the same way it’s mine not to agree with your view.
		
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I actually agree with the majority of your posts, what I couldn’t and still don’t fully understand is how you are so sure he has suffered mentally and been through a rough time whilst dismissing others thoughts on him as speculation.

I can see the financial loss from being barred from playing now he’s been found not guilty, but if he hadn’t been barred and allowed to play on while waiting to go to court and found guilty, the PGA would of been slammed.

Have a nice day.


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## Jimaroid (Dec 9, 2021)

I find it interesting that nobody's mentioned the issue of non-prescribed drug use amongst "professional athletes" in this situation.

He's very likely not the only silly boy on tour.


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## Canary_Yellow (Dec 9, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			I actually agree with the majority of your posts, what I couldn’t and still don’t fully understand is how you are so sure he has suffered mentally and been through a rough time whilst dismissing others thoughts on him as speculation.

I can see the financial loss from being barred from playing now he’s been found not guilty, but if he hadn’t been barred and allowed to play on while waiting to go to court and found guilty, the PGA would of been slammed.

Have a nice day.

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I didn’t say I was sure, it’s just an opinion, but in my mind a pretty reasonable one and based on how he was in tears in court. Others are free to have their opinion too and if that’s different to mine, that’s fine. It doesn’t make my opinion wrong or invalid.

The reason I didn’t want to comment on the “rodeo” comment is because I don’t think that suggestion is fair on olesen given there doesnt appear to be any evidence of that. I haven’t said anywhere that Ethan isn’t entitled to his view or dismissed it, Ethan and you, if it’s your view too, are absolutely entitled to make that assumption.

I agree with you on the being allowed to play point, it’s no win for anyone, and frankly, there’s only one person that could have made different decisions and avoided all of this altogether….


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## Ethan (Dec 9, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			I didn’t say I was sure, it’s just an opinion, but in my mind a pretty reasonable one and based on how he was in tears in court. Others are free to have their opinion too and if that’s different to mine, that’s fine. It doesn’t make my opinion wrong or invalid.

The reason I didn’t want to comment on the “rodeo” comment is because I don’t think that suggestion is fair on olesen given there doesnt appear to be any evidence of that. I haven’t said anywhere that Ethan isn’t entitled to his view or dismissed it, Ethan and you, if it’s your view too, are absolutely entitled to make that assumption.

I agree with you on the being allowed to play point, it’s no win for anyone, and frankly, there’s only one person that could have made different decisions and avoided all of this altogether….
		
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People who deal with those who get drunk and/or high and behave like this rarely find it is the first time it, or something like it, has occurred. The defence of 'My goodness, I had no idea that mixing a bunch of alcoholic drinks and taking powerful prescription sedatives that were not prescribed for me then heading into a low oxygen environment would cause a problem' is a very large stack of Pro V1s.


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## Canary_Yellow (Dec 9, 2021)

Ethan said:



			People who deal with those who get drunk and/or high and behave like this rarely find it is the first time it, or something like it, has occurred. The defence of 'My goodness, I had no idea that mixing a bunch of alcoholic drinks and taking powerful prescription sedatives that were not prescribed for me then heading into a low oxygen environment would cause a problem' is a very large stack of Pro V1s.
		
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Yes, that’s fair. He’s certainly been silly, I’d like to think it’s a one off, but you could well be right 🤦‍♂️


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## Boomy (Dec 9, 2021)

Must get some ambien in for the Christmas period….

That way after the lads annual Christmas night out, too much beer (usually only about 6/7 pints nowadays), getting home at 4am and widdling on the cat before climbing into bed and snoring like a walrus with a cold I can say to the Mrs it was the ambien on the flight home from the pub that did it.


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## sunshine (Dec 9, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			what I couldn’t and still don’t fully understand is how you are so sure he has suffered mentally and been through a rough time whilst dismissing others thoughts on him as speculation.
		
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I think this was probably the crux of the court case. And the jury decided this was an isolated out of character event, based on the evidence submitted. Or at least gave him the benefit of the doubt.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 9, 2021)

sunshine said:



			I think this was probably the crux of the court case. And the jury decided this was an isolated out of character event, based on the evidence submitted. Or at least gave him the benefit of the doubt.
		
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I’ve no doubt how his persona would of been portrayed over the last few years in court, but we can only go on what was reported in the media and from what I’ve read, listened too, his main defence was not knowing how the drink and drugs mix would affect him and he had no memory of what took place.

I’m sure the money he paid his lawyer was well worth it in the end and I’m pretty confident no defence lawyer is going to stand there and say their client isn’t bothered what happened and it hadn’t affected them.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 9, 2021)

Where does that eave Olesen now? Can he resume his career on the DP tour and what has the enforced break done for his tour status?


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## davidy233 (Dec 9, 2021)

A player I liked and I'd not judge him going forward in his career - but anyone who behaves like that under influence of what's he's drunk/taken and being able to get away with it is ridiculous - there has to be consequences


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## harpo_72 (Dec 9, 2021)

Perhaps the legality is based on a concoction of over the counter legally available items….I wonder if there will be a warning added to some pills about behaviour after mixing with other specific items making the person liable.
I used to fly a lot irrespective of how tired or which class I flew , sleeping was impossible in the end. A champagne on take off and a couple of glasses with the meal worked but then stopped .. I never bothered with sleeping tablets, I just accepted I would not sleep and the flight would be tedious. It made the race weekends tougher and recovering was slower .. I think I understand in a small way what is going on


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 9, 2021)

sunshine said:



			I think this was probably the crux of the court case. And the* jury* decided this was an isolated out of character event, based on the evidence submitted. Or at least gave him the benefit of the doubt.
		
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davidy233 said:



			A player I liked and I'd not judge him going forward in his career - but anyone who behaves like that under influence of what's he's drunk/taken and being able to get away with it is *ridiculous* - there has to be consequences
		
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Those who have served in law enforcement, or given evidence in court, or served on juries, or even done all 3, will have no difficulty in providing examples of how often the two highlighted words go together.  Don't give the QC too much credit...


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