# Handicap question?



## Golfmmad (May 2, 2017)

Ok, so I'm no longer a club member and played my last comp as a member in October 2015.
My handicap was then 24.4 exact.
 I still don't have an official handicap - last year at the Cooden meet I shot 44 points and won the individual Stableford. As I've just put in the "I played today" thread about winning a guest competition playing off 24 handicap, I'm wondering if I should play off a lower h'cap.

As my Brother said, "You should ask in the "Experts" section.

So, what do you guys think? 

Thanks in advance. :thup:


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## Dasit (May 2, 2017)

If you don't have an active handicap you should not be allowed to win at club events

Very unfair on the people who keep real handicaps when someone who is not submitting cards comes in and plays and scores far better than what their handicap suggests.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 2, 2017)

Golfmmad said:



			Ok, so I'm no longer a club member and played my last comp as a member in October 2015.
My handicap was then 24.4 exact.
 I still don't have an official handicap - last year at the Cooden meet I shot 44 points and won the individual Stableford. As I've just put in the "I played today" thread about winning a guest competition playing off 24 handicap, I'm wondering if I should play off a lower h'cap.

As my Brother said, "You should ask in the "Experts" section.

So, what do you guys think? 

Thanks in advance. :thup:
		
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As you don't have an official HC I would look at your recent scores and then play off what you believe is a fair reflection of your ability at the moment .


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## Golfmmad (May 2, 2017)

Dasit said:



			If you don't have an active handicap you should not be allowed to win at club events

Very unfair on the people who keep real handicaps when someone who is not submitting cards comes in and plays and scores far better than what their handicap suggests.
		
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I fully understand what you're saying, however, as a guest of my Brother his club did not ask for handicap certificates. Obviously I wouldn't have played otherwise. It was a guest invitation day.

And just to clarify, I am not one of these people as you suggest, not submitting cards etc.

As a high handicapper I'm just as likely to shoot 24 points being the inconsistent golfer that I am.


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## Golfmmad (May 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As you don't have an official HC I would look at your recent scores and then play off what you believe is a fair reflection of your ability at the moment .
		
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That's just it Phil, I don't know. As I don't play very often as I used to. But I want to be fair when I play at the Cooden meet, hence my question to the experts.

My brother RLBurnside reckons 21, what do you think?


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## patricks148 (May 2, 2017)

why not just calculate your last few scores from the SSS of the courses, or download one of those handicap apps if that's too difficult.


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## Rlburnside (May 3, 2017)

The course Chis mentioned has a sss of 71 , he shoot a gross 86 playing off 24, his last 2 scores would have been around 100. 

So working a h/c of the three cards as per normal it would be off the score of 86, as I understand it this category is .4 so 9 .4s gives a reduction of 3.6, his last official h/c was 24.4 so his h/c would come out at 21.

Is this correct ?


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## Duckster (May 3, 2017)

Golfmmad said:



			I fully understand what you're saying, however, as a guest of my Brother his club did not ask for handicap certificates. Obviously I wouldn't have played otherwise. It was a guest invitation day.

And just to clarify, I am not one of these people as you suggest, not submitting cards etc.

As a high handicapper I'm just as likely to shoot 24 points being the inconsistent golfer that I am.
		
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If that was at my place, you could have happily played, however without a valid and active handicap, you couldn't have actually won anything.


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## Golfmmad (May 3, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			The course Chis mentioned has a sss of 71 , he shoot a gross 86 playing off 24, his last 2 scores would have been around 100. 

So working a h/c of the three cards as per normal it would be off the score of 86, as I understand it this category is .4 so 9 .4s gives a reduction of 3.6, his last official h/c was 24.4 so his h/c would come out at 21.

Is this correct ?
		
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Thanks for that Roy, I'd happily play off 21. 

:thup:


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## Imurg (May 3, 2017)

Be a Man and play off 18&#128077;&#128540;&#128512;


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## Golfmmad (May 3, 2017)

Duckster said:



			If that was at my place, you could have happily played, however without a valid and active handicap, you couldn't have actually won anything.
		
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Again, I fully understand the above and it would not have mattered a jot to not win a prize.
To have played well with 43 points is the most important to me.

Just as an aside, what happens at a forum meet in the same circumstances?

Would the winner of a stableford comp not get any money or prizes?


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## chrisd (May 3, 2017)

Chris is one of the true nice guys on the forum and I have absolutely no doubt that he would always decide the most appropriate handicap for any game. I'd be very happy that he has a really good day at the office as I'm certain he would play as fair as possible


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## Golfmmad (May 3, 2017)

Chris, many thanks for your sentiments mate. As they say, "From one Gent to another".

:thup:


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## Golfmmad (May 3, 2017)

Imurg said:



			Be a Man and play off 18&#128077;&#128540;&#128512;
		
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You looking for bovver mate? :angry:

:ears:


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## heronsghyll (May 3, 2017)

Golfmmad said:



			Again, I fully understand the above and it would not have mattered a jot to not win a prize.
To have played well with 43 points is the most important to me.

Just as an aside, what happens at a forum meet in the same circumstances?

Would the winner of a stableford comp not get any money or prizes?
		
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If you don't care about winning a prize, and are happy to shoot 43 points - then don't take the prize. 

Golf is a game in which the best players don't always win hence the handicapping system. BUT that only works if it's fair. To play in a competition against players who play regularly to get and keep a valid handicap when you don't have one -is not fair (in my view).

Come and play the day, enjoy your golf, shoot what you shoot and no one would care, they would be pleased to have you join them.  To win the money from a non-existent handicap is in my opinion - not good form or the spirit of golf


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## Rlburnside (May 3, 2017)

Heronsghyll

As long as your honest (and I assure you Chris is) I think it's easy to adjust yourself if you follow your scores, and to play off a unofficial h/c, I'm sure if someone done this in a forum meet this would be acceptable.

But I can see your point of how this could be abused if a player wasn't known.


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## Golfmmad (May 3, 2017)

heronsghyll said:



			If you don't care about winning a prize, and are happy to shoot 43 points - then don't take the prize. 

Golf is a game in which the best players don't always win hence the handicapping system. BUT that only works if it's fair. To play in a competition against players who play regularly to get and keep a valid handicap when you don't have one -is not fair (in my view).

Come and play the day, enjoy your golf, shoot what you shoot and no one would care, they would be pleased to have you join them.  To win the money from a non-existent handicap is in my opinion - not good form or the spirit of golf
		
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This tone of post is not what I expected.

Perhaps I should clarify a few points.

Firstly, I had a valid handicap up until the end of October 2016, my understanding is that a handicap is valid for up to a year after membership ceases. So playing at Cooden my handicap was valid. I donated my winnings that day to the Air Ambulance that attended RickG at The Centurion Golf Club.

I was a guest at my brothers club that didn't require an official handicap. The first prize for the guest was a golf shirt. First for a member was a flat screen tv - only fair that a member should get a better prize.

I'd better check with Rob re the Cooden meet to see if he requires official handicaps, if he does then I will not play, after all, I want to adhere to the good spirit of golf.


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## Three (May 3, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			The course Chis mentioned has a sss of 71 , he shoot a gross 86 playing off 24, his last 2 scores would have been around 100. 

So working a h/c of the three cards as per normal it would be off the score of 86, as I understand it this category is .4 so 9 .4s gives a reduction of 3.6, his last official h/c was 24.4 so his h/c would come out at 21.

Is this correct ?
		
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The idea of a handicap is to give people a chance of competing on a good day. 

Now I can see that the OP is a thoroughly decent chap, so if he is able to shoot 15 over on his best day, maybe around 18-20 is about right?


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## Rlburnside (May 3, 2017)

Three

If you scored a gross 86 off a h/c of 24 in a official competition I don't think you would come down to 18-20, coming down 6-4 shots is a big reduction


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## Three (May 3, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			Three

If you scored a gross 86 off a h/c of 24 in a official competition I don't think you would come down to 18-20, coming down 6-4 shots is a big reduction
		
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If you are able to shoot 86 in a competition you shouldn't be off 24.
Your brother is asking what is a fair handicap. 
By "fair" I'm looking at "fair" for everyone. 
24 is not a fair handicap for someone who can shoot 15 over par, albeit on his best day. 
Around 18-20, max, is fair.


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## duncan mackie (May 3, 2017)

There's no right answer - agonising over one is madness!

To support this I would highlight that in 18 months a recent entrant to the game could easily have progressed from 24 to 10;  and equally easily someone playing regularily for their 24 could struggle with only the odd game to play to 28.

I can only suggest that yiu play off 2 less than your mates think you should, and walk tall in your, and their, eyes.

It's a shame that it's always tough when you win a handicap event at golf - not only are others quick to suggest it's your handicap rather than your effort on the day; but you end up thinking it yourself!

Put it behind you now - and after Cooden I'm sure there will be many more opinions as to an appropriate figure &#129300;


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## Golfmmad (May 3, 2017)

duncan mackie said:



			There's no right answer - agonising over one is madness!

To support this I would highlight that in 18 months a recent entrant to the game could easily have progressed from 24 to 10;  and equally easily someone playing regularily for their 24 could struggle with only the odd game to play to 28.

I can only suggest that yiu play off 2 less than your mates think you should, and walk tall in your, and their, eyes.

It's a shame that it's always tough when you win a handicap event at golf - not only are others quick to suggest it's your handicap rather than your effort on the day; but you end up thinking it yourself!

Put it behind you now - and after Cooden I'm sure there will be many more opinions as to an appropriate figure &#129300;
		
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Thanks Duncan, a voice of reason.


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## Three (May 3, 2017)

Golfmmad said:



			Thanks Duncan, a voice of reason. 

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So what do you think of the suggestion of playing off about 18-20, which was based on the fact that you've already beaten everyone on a given day by shooting +15?


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## TomTom (May 3, 2017)

chrisd said:



			Chris is one of the true nice guys on the forum and I have absolutely no doubt that he would always decide the most appropriate handicap for any game. I'd be very happy that he has a really good day at the office as I'm certain he would play as fair as possible
		
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I'm sorry but I can't give this


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## Rlburnside (May 3, 2017)

Duncan

Of course there is a right answer, as I've pointed out it's easy to regulate your own h/c by adjusting it to the sss of the courses you play,


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## TomTom (May 3, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			Duncan

Of course there is a right answer, as I've pointed out it's easy to regulate your own h/c by adjusting it to the sss of the courses you play,
		
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If he became a Member of a Club then he would have a proper handicap!


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## Rlburnside (May 3, 2017)

TomTom said:



			If he became a Member of a Club then he would have a proper handicap!
		
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Of course he would but that's a pointless post and doesn't contribute much to the discussion, there's many reasons people don't choose to become members.


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## TomTom (May 3, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			Of course he would but that's a pointless post and doesn't contribute much to the discussion, there's many reasons people don't choose to become members.
		
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So the whole thread is pointless then?!


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## Three (May 3, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			Of course he would but that's a pointless post and doesn't contribute much to the discussion, there's many reasons people don't choose to become members.
		
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Why are you and your brother avoiding my simple question? 

It's a very simple case.  Your brother asks what is a fair handicap to play off, he's previously won a golf day shooting 86, so surely 18-20 is extremely fair, no?


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## Rlburnside (May 3, 2017)

Three said:



			Why are you and your brother avoiding my simple question? 


It's a very simple case.  Your brother asks what is a fair handicap to play off, he's previously won a golf day shooting 86, so surely 18-20 is extremely fair, no?
		
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I'm not avoiding your question, I thought I answered it by stating what h/c he should recive if he shoot that in a official competition, 

You say no player should shoot 86 off a 24h/c
but he played off 24 for at least 10 years being a member, for the past year or so he has not been a member and plays no more than once a week, then has a rare day and shoots 86.

So my thinking is the fairest way to adjust  his h/c 'fair' is to try and do it the way most of us members get our h/c adjusted.


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## Three (May 4, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			I'm not avoiding your question, I thought I answered it by stating what h/c he should recive if he shoot that in a official competition, 

You say no player should shoot 86 off a 24h/c
but he played off 24 for at least 10 years being a member, for the past year or so he has not been a member and plays no more than once a week, then has a rare day and shoots 86.

So my thinking is the fairest way to adjust  his h/c 'fair' is to try and do it the way most of us members get our h/c adjusted.
		
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I didn't say that and you are avoiding the subject of allocating a "fair" handicap.


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## Rlburnside (May 4, 2017)

Sorry I thought by your post saying I didn't answer a simple question of yours you thought I was avoiding the matter.


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## Rlburnside (May 4, 2017)

TomTom said:



			So the whole thread is pointless then?!
		
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No the whole thread is not pointless just your contribution, your other post just said 'sorry but I can't give this' what the hell is that supposed to mean?


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## TomTom (May 4, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			No the whole thread is not pointless just your contribution, your other post just said 'sorry but I can't give this' what the hell is that supposed to mean?
		
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That you're just making it up as you go along!


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## Rlburnside (May 4, 2017)

TomTom said:



			That you're just making it up as you go along!
		
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Yet another stupid post, your comment, 'sorry but can't give this' was a reply to Chrisd , so I don't understand who you think is just making it up as they go along. 

This question was asked in ask the experts section you should refrain from posting in this section until you learn to contribute in a more constructive way.


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## hairball_89 (May 4, 2017)

Golfmmad said:



			Thanks Duncan, a voice of reason. 

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To follow on from Duncan's reply, could you do what I (and a lot of other golfers it seems) have done, and arrange an 'online' unofficial handicap from somewhere like Golfshake? I'm not attached to a club, so i keep my scores on there and it tracks your handicap as any other system would (to my knowledge). There are also paid for options to give you certificates or handicap card, should you be playing a venue where a certificate is required (there's a list of some top top courses, including the Old Course at St Andrews, that accept it as a proof of handicap online).


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## Slab (May 4, 2017)

If these last three rounds (100, 100, 86) were for an initial handicap allocation what would it have been, just guessing at around the 15 or 16 mark

If you were still a club member what would you get your 24 reduced to on those same scores, about 21 I think

Just split the difference and go for 19 





(Not an expert)


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## heronsghyll (May 5, 2017)

Golfmmad said:



			This tone of post is not what I expected.

Perhaps I should clarify a few points.

Firstly, I had a valid handicap up until the end of October 2016, my understanding is that a handicap is valid for up to a year after membership ceases. So playing at Cooden my handicap was valid. I donated my winnings that day to the Air Ambulance that attended RickG at The Centurion Golf Club.

I was a guest at my brothers club that didn't require an official handicap. The first prize for the guest was a golf shirt. First for a member was a flat screen tv - only fair that a member should get a better prize.

I'd better check with Rob re the Cooden meet to see if he requires official handicaps, if he does then I will not play, after all, I want to adhere to the good spirit of golf.
		
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Chris,

If you had a handicap until October 2016, then it was valid when you played at the Cooden meet. Therefore, in my view your score of 43 points on the day was and should be acceptable to EVERYONE. You had a 100% valid entry and were perfectly entitled to win anything. The fact you had a stonking day is perfectly acceptable and understandable. End of that discussion.

I did not realise you were asking what to do going forward at future events - you did not make this clear - well at least I didn't get it. So I apologise for suggesting or casting any aspersions on your right to win.

However, going forward which is what your post is about - is I still hold the view that to win money or prizes from a non-existent handicap (even if it is an old one) is in my opinion - not good form or the spirit of golf.  Especially if you win by such a large margin.  If you shoot 36/37/38 no problem. People will accept that, but 43 points plus is not.
In my view you will always face the wrath of players with an official handicap when you do this. 

So, without a handicap if you play any society event in future I would suggest you choose a number to play from which - if you have a good day - you would shoot 36 or so. From reading the recent posts that seems to be about 20.  Also without a handicap I would only guest in a club event/invitation if I made it clear I had no Congu status and that was accepted by the organiser.

In summary - you asked the question of this forum, and the overall response seems to be play of what YOU feel is right and honourable.

That's my view and I hope you consider it is the way it was meant - my honest opinion to the question you asked. I hope to see you at Cooden in July and Ill buy you a beer!


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## Golfmmad (May 11, 2017)

heronsghyll said:



			Chris,

If you had a handicap until October 2016, then it was valid when you played at the Cooden meet. Therefore, in my view your score of 43 points on the day was and should be acceptable to EVERYONE. You had a 100% valid entry and were perfectly entitled to win anything. The fact you had a stonking day is perfectly acceptable and understandable. End of that discussion.

I did not realise you were asking what to do going forward at future events - you did not make this clear - well at least I didn't get it. So I apologise for suggesting or casting any aspersions on your right to win.

However, going forward which is what your post is about - is I still hold the view that to win money or prizes from a non-existent handicap (even if it is an old one) is in my opinion - not good form or the spirit of golf.  Especially if you win by such a large margin.  If you shoot 36/37/38 no problem. People will accept that, but 43 points plus is not.
In my view you will always face the wrath of players with an official handicap when you do this. 

So, without a handicap if you play any society event in future I would suggest you choose a number to play from which - if you have a good day - you would shoot 36 or so. From reading the recent posts that seems to be about 20.  Also without a handicap I would only guest in a club event/invitation if I made it clear I had no Congu status and that was accepted by the organiser.

In summary - you asked the question of this forum, and the overall response seems to be play of what YOU feel is right and honourable.

That's my view and I hope you consider it is the way it was meant - my honest opinion to the question you asked. I hope to see you at Cooden in July and Ill buy you a beer!
		
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Thanks for that Heronsgyll, (sorry, don't know your first name).

Looking forward to July at Cooden and the beer!

Well I've played quite a bit since this thread started.

Last Friday was my first Society outing, where my handicap from last year was 26 but decided to play off 21 after taking into account discussions on here. 
I didn't play well at all and shot 25 points on a tough course: Mannings Heath Waterfall. So even playing to 24 would not have made any difference.

Then straight on to our away 3 days at Lingfield Golf.
First round front 9 I scored a measley 6 points, yes 6! But back 9 getting it back together with 19 points, so again 25 - and playing off 21.

Next day, well, an embarrassing 14 points on 18 holes!

Following day, a much better 28 points with only 30 putts.

See what I meant in an earlier post saying, " I'm likely to shoot 24 points being the  inconsistent golfer that I am". 

Finally, as mentioned, I was a member with a full Congu handicap for over 10 years, so very experienced of playing to a handicap. The last club as a member, where I was at for 18 months, I joined with a handicap of 22.3. In the time there I only buffered twice and went up .1 after every medal or stableford comp. So ended up with 24.4 exact. It was a tough course playing off the white competition tees which I found difficult to play well off. 
The comps that I scored well on were forum meets or friendly from the yellow tees - makes all the difference.

So I think a fair handicap for me at the moment is 21.


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