# Walking Away From My Club - Advice?



## Scrindle (Feb 4, 2014)

Hi all,

Potentially a bit of a controversial question here but I can't ask anyone at my club, so I need to post here!

(Sorry in advance for the wall of text!)

I'm not happy at my club at all.

I like the course and it is challenging (to me at least!), but the management of it is not very good and investment in the course itself is non-existent for the most part (the club car park has been resurfaced recently to be fair - I have no doubt that cost quite a bit - but I suspect this was done in order to make it look a bit more presentable for those who happen to be guests at the attached hotel).

I read on here quite a bit about people saying they had a chat with their club pro about something they were concerned with in their game, or were lent a particular demo club by the pro to test out for a round, etc... and I just cannot imagine my pro ever doing something like that for members. Whenever I'm in the club house to book a tee time or talk about some aspect of my game and a desire to book lessons, it just seems like him taking the time to talk to me is a massive chore and he would rather be doing something else (this is the same with other members from what I have observed too). A lot of the time you try and have a chat with him after getting back from a round or buying something and he doesn't even look you in the eye, just carries on with what he's doing giving 1 word answers and making it clear that he has absolutely no idea what you're actually saying because he's not even listening.

I did have quite a few lessons with him when I first joined, but I just get the impression that unless he knows you are guaranteed to spend something he has absolutely no interest in talking to you whatsoever.

The club house is servicable, but the food is hugely expensive and not value for money (think Â£9 for a small burger and a hand full of chips, Â£4 for a bacon roll, etc...).

Compared to some other clubs I have seen the systems appear to be antiquated. No online handicap tracking or tee booking and the website doesn't even tell you what the status of the course is. It's very difficult to speak to any of the secretaries. Hard to arrange a game with strangers (I put up a very brief note on our notice board with my mobile number saying that I was looking to get to know a few more people in the club, and would be happy to make time to play a game with people when convenient, and found it a few days later in the bin in the men's locker room scrumpled up...).

From reading other peoples' experiences on this forum I just feel like if I were to go elsewhere there is a good chance I would get much better value for money, better facilities and a much friendlier atmosphere who are more open to welcoming new members rather than shunning them.

Close to where I live is a course called the Worcestershire. I have heard very good things about it and a quick walk around the club house the other day revealed they were miles ahead of my current club. A random person who didn't recognise me even gave me his business card and said that while he wasn't sure of the current way members joined, if I needed any help joining I should give him a call and he would do all he could. This club is only slightly more expensive that my current one (if you discount the joining fee), but being in the 25-27 year old category, if I am reading their current subscriptions correctly I am pretty sure that I would be eligible for a decently reduced annual fee and waived joining fee!

So now on to my question.

My membership does not run out until September I think, but I want to walk away and join another club. This being the first golf club I have joined, I am completely unaware of how seriously golf clubs may or may not take things like this and being sued could get me stuck off so it is something I need to consider carefully. What is the practical approach most golf clubs take to their members walking away? Our club allows us to pay by standing order, which I do, so if I were to cancel it and just not turn up again I would still technically be obliged to pay until 1 August this year.

Any thoughts?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 4, 2014)

Sorry to read of your experience at your existing club - a great pity.  Question- did you pay an entrance/joining fee?


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## JamesR (Feb 4, 2014)

I can only advise that you speak to the treasurer to confirm the position. But I find it odd that your membership runs to September, normally I thought clubs work from spring (following the golf season).


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## USER1999 (Feb 4, 2014)

Normally, if you pay in installments, you are legally obliged to pay all of the years fees, as you have entered into a contract with them. You may be able to negotiate. Try asking, and explaining why you feel your current place isn't for you.

It is not uncommon for unauthorised notices to be taken down. Notice boards are for the club to use, not individual members.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Feb 4, 2014)

With regards to "walking away", it sounds like it's the same as other memberships where you sign up for a set period of time. Just because they let you pay over the 12 months, even if you stop using it, they still want paying.

Unless it's a nice course, I wouldn't be surprised if they chased you for any unpaid monies. I doubt that it would ever lead to suing you, more likely the small claims court eventually, but you never know. 

You said you like the course, could you not just keep playing it until Aug, and then move?


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## chellie (Feb 4, 2014)

Your current club doesn't sound very welcoming at all. At our club fees are due for the full year even if you leave part way through. Also, from chatting to someone else the other day who left their old club to join ours they had to officially resign from the old club. Is there anything in your membership documents which state what you need to do.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 4, 2014)

Gil_Emott said:



			I can only advise that you speak to the treasurer to confirm the position. But I find it odd that your membership runs to September, normally I thought clubs work from spring (following the golf season).
		
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aside - my membership is 1st Nov to 30th Sept.


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## drawboy (Feb 4, 2014)

Hi, I feel sorry for the position you are in, it doesn't sound like fun one little bit and understand why you feel like you do. Unfortunately though once you have agreed to join for the year you do have to pay the full amount if you decide to leave early. The contract you have signed will state this. The golf courses position is that you have agreed to play for the year and they have agreed to provide a course and facilities for you to do so for the year. If they were to withdraw this facility then you would have course to sue them for it. They have the same course of action. If you really want to leave you may resign but you would still be liable to make your payments until September. 
If you did leave without paying your full subscription they probably would pursue the matter through the small claims courts and they would come down on the side of the club.
You have two choices. Leave now and carry on paying either in a lump sum or keep paying the installments or stay whilst September and then resign and join somewhere else.
I know it is harsh but golf is a business.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Feb 4, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			aside - my membership is 1st Nov to 30th Sept.
		
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My membership is just 12 months from whenever I join. My previous course was 1st Aug to 31 July.


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## stevie_r (Feb 4, 2014)

Gil_Emott said:



			I can only advise that you speak to the treasurer to confirm the position. But I find it odd that your membership runs to September, normally I thought clubs work from spring (following the golf season).
		
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Although the start of April was I suppose the traditional start of subs period date, there seems to be a degree of variation, certainly around Renfrewshire/ Dunbartonshire, my club for example is 1 Mar.

I know of a couple of clubs who operate a 12 month period from whatever date you join; it makes better business sense than a part-year pro rata I suppose.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 4, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			aside - my membership is 1st Nov to 30th Sept.
		
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Oops 1st Nov - 31st October


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 4, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			With regards to "walking away", it sounds like it's the same as other memberships where you sign up for a set period of time. Just because they let you pay over the 12 months, even if you stop using it, they still want paying.

Unless it's a nice course, I wouldn't be surprised if they chased you for any unpaid monies. I doubt that it would ever lead to suing you, more likely the small claims court eventually, but you never know. 

You said you like the course, could you not just keep playing it until Aug, and then move?
		
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Problem is that monthly installments arrangements are usually made between the club and a finance company - you don't pay the club your monthly payment - you pay the finance company.  The finance company pays the club your annual subs up front and gets that back from the member over the course of a year.  If you just stopped and cancelled a SO or DD the finance company would be after you - nothing to do with the club unfortunately.  The club might agree to pay the finance company the balance due on membership when you cancelled your monthly payment - but I doubt it.


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## Scrindle (Feb 4, 2014)

Thanks for the responses guys.  I was under the impression that my membership ran until the end of May despite having joined in August since it was done on a pro-rata basis for joining mid-season.  When I phoned up the other day to check when my membership came up for renewal they told me that it was 1 September despite this.  I have yet to dig out my contract and actually look at the terms.  In any event I would argue whatever I signed was verbally varied - proving that would be the difficult part.

I did not pay a joining fee, no.  I think the club has historically struggled with membership numbers despite being quite a nice, scenic course (lots of water scare people aware, perhaps? ).  The hotel it is attached to has gone under several times and changed hands a lot.



murphthemog said:



			Normally, if you pay in installments, you are legally obliged to pay all of the years fees, as you have entered into a contract with them.
		
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I'm aware of this and it's the main reason I started this thread.  Being sued for fees would cause me no end of professional issues.


I thought about speaking with one of the secretaries about it but as I said above they're virtually impossible to get a hold of and are so cliquey I just don't think it would have any effect.  Not the mention the fact that drawing something like this to their attention could make life even worse with a bad atmosphere compounding everything else if they weren't willing to let me just walk away.


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## Canary_Yellow (Feb 4, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			aside - my membership is 1st Nov to 30th Sept.
		
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Does everyone take October as a month off?


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## JamesR (Feb 4, 2014)

Sorry to OP for taking the thread off topic, but all the clubs around me seem to be sometime in spring.

back to the OP, as Chellie suggests good etiquette is to resign your membership. You certainly shouldn't just stop paying and give up. But, unless you didn't sign anything to agree it, you will probably have to pay for the full year.
Speak to someone in authority, and try to get written proof of your position.


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## stevie_r (Feb 4, 2014)

Scrindle said:



			Thanks for the responses guys.  I was under the impression that my membership ran until the end of May despite having joined in August since it was done on a pro-rata basis for joining mid-season.  When I phoned up the other day to check when my membership came up for renewal they told me that it was 1 September despite this.  I have yet to dig out my contract and actually look at the terms.  In any event I would argue whatever I signed was verbally varied - proving that would be the difficult part.

I did not pay a joining fee, no.  I think the club has historically struggled with membership numbers despite being quite a nice, scenic course (lots of water scare people aware, perhaps? ).  The hotel it is attached to has gone under several times and changed hands a lot.



I'm aware of this and it's the main reason I started this thread.  Being sued for fees would cause me no end of professional issues.


I thought about speaking with one of the secretaries about it but as I said above they're virtually impossible to get a hold of and are so cliquey I just don't think it would have any effect.  Not the mention the fact that drawing something like this to their attention could make life even worse with a bad atmosphere compounding everything else if they weren't willing to let me just walk away.
		
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Which hotel group is it?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 4, 2014)

Scrindle said:



			Thanks for the responses guys.  I was under the impression that my membership ran until the end of May despite having joined in August since it was done on a pro-rata basis for joining mid-season.  When I phoned up the other day to check when my membership came up for renewal they told me that it was 1 September despite this.  I have yet to dig out my contract and actually look at the terms.  In any event I would argue whatever I signed was verbally varied - proving that would be the difficult part.

I did not pay a joining fee, no.  I think the club has historically struggled with membership numbers despite being quite a nice, scenic course (lots of water scare people aware, perhaps? ).  The hotel it is attached to has gone under several times and changed hands a lot.



I'm aware of this and it's the main reason I started this thread.  Being sued for fees would cause me no end of professional issues.


I thought about speaking with one of the secretaries about it but as I said above they're virtually impossible to get a hold of and are so cliquey I just don't think it would have any effect.  Not the mention the fact that drawing something like this to their attention could make life even worse with a bad atmosphere compounding everything else if they weren't willing to let me just walk away.
		
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Do you pay monthly to the club or a finance company?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 4, 2014)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Does everyone take October as a month off?
		
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Not October (yes I spotted it) but this year we all might have well have taken January off. 

Not to put a downer on it - would you expect them to waive your remaining monthly subs payments if you did your back in or broke a leg half way through the year? No I suspect - they just wouldn't be able to help you.  So I suspect that they can't and won't create a precedent 'just' because you don't get on with the members or pro.  Sorry.


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## Scrindle (Feb 4, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			more likely the small claims court eventually
		
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The value of any claim they may wish to bring would be well within the small claims track, you are right, however there is no difference between small, fast and multi track claims from a 'being sued' perspective, other than the size of your legal fees and the level of representation/case management needed. I'll amend the OP but just so everyone knows I'm more than aware of my technical obligations under contract law, etc...

I'm just interested, from the experience of people on here, what the practical outcome is for most golf clubs for a member simply walking away. I.e. Are they *likely* to sue me?

Standing order is paid to the club directly, not a finance company so that isn't an issue fortunately. It would just be what action the club decides to take against me, if any. There are no membership documents for the club itself, it is simply a contractual relationship.

If there is a finance company involved, it would actually make the situation much easier because the situation would be so non-compliant with the CCA that getting out of payment would be a walk in the park.


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## drawboy (Feb 4, 2014)

Our club has posted notices on both the boards in the clubhouse and locker room informing members that they have recently taken past members to the small claims courts because they left and did not pay the balance of their subscription. It states in both cases they won. It isn't a threat as such more of a way of informing anyone who is thinking of doing the same they will pursue the individual for the balance if they did the same. That way everyone knows where they stand.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Feb 4, 2014)

Scrindle said:



			The value of any claim they may wish to bring would be well within the small claims track, you are right, however there is no difference between small, fast and multi track claims from a 'being sued' perspective, other than the size of your legal fees and the level of representation/case management needed.  I'll amend the OP but just so everyone knows I'm more than aware of my technical obligations under contract law, etc...

I'm just interested, from the experience of people on here, what the practical outcome is for most golf clubs for a member simply walking away.  I.e. Are they *likely* to sue me?

Standing order is paid to the club directly, not a finance company so that isn't an issue fortunately.  It would just be what action the club decides to take against me, if any.  There are no membership documents for the club itself, it is simply a contractual relationship.
		
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You might be lucky then....

My previous club let you cancel whenever you liked through the year, and as I was paying on a standing order, the only step was to cancel that, and let them know!

As with most things in golf, it seems every club does things their own way.

Cheers for pointing out the difference with suing/small claims, that's quite handy to know actually, I thought they weren't as bad, better avoid them as well!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 4, 2014)

Scrindle said:



			The value of any claim they may wish to bring would be well within the small claims track, you are right, however there is no difference between small, fast and multi track claims from a 'being sued' perspective, other than the size of your legal fees and the level of representation/case management needed.  I'll amend the OP but just so everyone knows I'm more than aware of my technical obligations under contract law, etc...

I'm just interested, from the experience of people on here, what the practical outcome is for most golf clubs for a member simply walking away.  I.e. Are they *likely* to sue me?

Standing order is paid to the club directly, not a finance company so that isn't an issue fortunately.  It would just be what action the club decides to take against me, if any.  There are no membership documents for the club itself, it is simply a contractual relationship.
		
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I (like many golfers who have carried all their life) had a serious does of the sciatica a few years back.  I couldn't walk for weeks and was out of action for six months - club was sympathetic but couldn't do anything for me.  And for 5 yrs my work had me away from home all week so I could only play at weekends - and being away so much justifying two rounds to my mrs was difficult. Again nothing the club could do for me other than give me sympathy.  They just can't set precedents when finances are so tight.  But we are a trad members club - upside is that we care - downside is that our main source of income is subs.  And we can't compromise our subs income.


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## ger147 (Feb 4, 2014)

Scrindle said:



			Hi all,

Potentially a bit of a controversial question here but I can't ask anyone at my club, so I need to post here!

(Sorry in advance for the wall of text!)

I'm not happy at my club at all.

I like the course and it is challenging (to me at least!), but the management of it is not very good and investment in the course itself is non-existent for the most part (the club car park has been resurfaced recently to be fair - I have no doubt that cost quite a bit - but I suspect this was done in order to make it look a bit more presentable for those who happen to be guests at the attached hotel).

I read on here quite a bit about people saying they had a chat with their club pro about something they were concerned with in their game, or were lent a particular demo club by the pro to test out for a round, etc... and I just cannot imagine my pro ever doing something like that for members. Whenever I'm in the club house to book a tee time or talk about some aspect of my game and a desire to book lessons, it just seems like him taking the time to talk to me is a massive chore and he would rather be doing something else (this is the same with other members from what I have observed too). A lot of the time you try and have a chat with him after getting back from a round or buying something and he doesn't even look you in the eye, just carries on with what he's doing giving 1 word answers and making it clear that he has absolutely no idea what you're actually saying because he's not even listening.

I did have quite a few lessons with him when I first joined, but I just get the impression that unless he knows you are guaranteed to spend something he has absolutely no interest in talking to you whatsoever.

The club house is servicable, but the food is hugely expensive and not value for money (think Â£9 for a small burger and a hand full of chips, Â£4 for a bacon roll, etc...).

Compared to some other clubs I have seen the systems appear to be antiquated. No online handicap tracking or tee booking and the website doesn't even tell you what the status of the course is. It's very difficult to speak to any of the secretaries. Hard to arrange a game with strangers (I put up a very brief note on our notice board with my mobile number saying that I was looking to get to know a few more people in the club, and would be happy to make time to play a game with people when convenient, and found it a few days later in the bin in the men's locker room scrumpled up...).

From reading other peoples' experiences on this forum I just feel like if I were to go elsewhere there is a good chance I would get much better value for money, better facilities and a much friendlier atmosphere who are more open to welcoming new members rather than shunning them.

Close to where I live is a course called the Worcestershire. I have heard very good things about it and a quick walk around the club house the other day revealed they were miles ahead of my current club. A random person who didn't recognise me even gave me his business card and said that while he wasn't sure of the current way members joined, if I needed any help joining I should give him a call and he would do all he could. This club is only slightly more expensive that my current one (if you discount the joining fee), but being in the 25-27 year old category, if I am reading their current subscriptions correctly I am pretty sure that I would be eligible for a decently reduced annual fee and waived joining fee!

So now on to my question.

My membership does not run out until September I think, but I want to walk away and join another club. This being the first golf club I have joined, I am completely unaware of how seriously golf clubs may or may not take things like this and being sued could get me stuck off so it is something I need to consider carefully. What is the practical approach most golf clubs take to their members walking away? Our club allows us to pay by standing order, which I do, so if I were to cancel it and just not turn up again I would still technically be obliged to pay until 1 August this year.

Any thoughts?
		
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For the sake of a few hundred quid, either pay up in full now and leave or pay till the end then leave.


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## Scrindle (Feb 4, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Cheers for pointing out the difference with suing/small claims, that's quite handy to know actually, I thought they weren't as bad, better avoid them as well!
		
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No problem.  Basically, any contact with the Courts and a Judgment handed out against you will destroy your credit rating and leave you open to enforcement action if you don't comply with the Judgment (bailiffs, third party debt orders, charging orders, etc...).  If you're regulated by a professional body (solicitor, accountant, IFA, etc...) you'll probably also find that being slapped with a CCJ is enough to automatically lose your practicing certificate regardless of circumstance.  So definitely best to avoid them!!!!!


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## pbrown7582 (Feb 4, 2014)

Sounds an unfortunate position to be in, made the savings available for being in the highly sought after 25-30 brackets could offset any due fees at your current club?


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## Scrindle (Feb 4, 2014)

pbrown7582 said:



			Sounds an unfortunate position to be in, made the savings available for being in the highly sought after 25-30 brackets could offset any due fees at your current club?
		
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Good idea.  From the responses on here I think I'm just going to *try* and talk to the club manager and basically tell them that I want to leave, see what happens.  Not worth the risk.


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## Old Skier (Feb 4, 2014)

You really need to talk to someone who can give you the answer at the club. As you can tell, a number of clubs operate differently and there may also be big variations between members and proprietors clubs. My club If you pay DD do not use a finance company and if you cancel and move on are not likely to pursue you. They are also very good when/if you become injured and are unable to play.

It's ok asking for advice on the tinternet but you will only get the actual answer at the club.


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## Fyldewhite (Feb 4, 2014)

The answer is to communicate with them. Remember, all clubs lose members all the time. They will be well versed in the financial implications and have policies accordingly. Also, they will not want to burn their bridges with you or get bad press etc so I would guess would likely be sympathetic to you paying for only what you actually use. If a finance company is involved then as per other posts above this may be different but just check your documentation and facts then ask the club. They should be interested as to why you want to leave but will most likely be pragmatic and possibly even helpful. Also, if you do end up staying for the summer use the time to properly check out the clubs you may want to move to (better than you did last time!!).


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2014)

Ultimately depends on your contract and what you agreed when you joined. 

At my current club my membership is monthly and can be terminated at any time with no commitment to pay for any future months that I dont use (was a big part of the reason I joined so that if my knee goes again I dont have to pay for the full year as I have had to previously)


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## stevie_r (Feb 4, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I (like many golfers who have carried all their life) had a serious does of the sciatica a few years back.  I couldn't walk for weeks and was out of action for six months - club was sympathetic but couldn't do anything for me.
		
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Another reason I've got my insurance, I can claim back my subs for the period I am out through illness or injury.


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## richart (Feb 4, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Oops 1st Nov - 31st October
		
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 Same here. Must be the area we live in.


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## Lincoln Quaker (Feb 4, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Problem is that monthly installments arrangements are usually made between the club and a finance company - you don't pay the club your monthly payment - you pay the finance company.  The finance company pays the club your annual subs up front and gets that back from the member over the course of a year.  If you just stopped and cancelled a SO or DD the finance company would be after you - nothing to do with the club unfortunately.  The club might agree to pay the finance company the balance due on membership when you cancelled your monthly payment - but I doubt it.
		
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Your slightly incorrect there SILH, If you go with fairway credit and stop paying them its collected back from the golf club not the individual and its up to the golf club to chase the non payer. I don't think they even register it on a credit file anywhere either. It would be up to the club to take you to small claims court if you haven't paid.


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## Lincoln Quaker (Feb 4, 2014)

Also back to the OP, if you are that unhappy there and not getting value for money speak with the club, The may want to find out and help you sort out the issues to stop you leaving. No club in there right mind wants members to leave as its very difficult to replace them.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 4, 2014)

richart said:



			Same here. Must be the area we live in.

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Maybe they think that with fast draining heathland courses existing members are happy to pay in November knowing that they'll be able to play through the winter months - well that was the theory.  One quarter of my golfing year (subs-wise) now gone and I must have played no more than half a dozen times over that period.  Expensive rounds when you pro-rata it - Â£60+ a round


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 4, 2014)

Lincoln Quaker said:



			Your slightly incorrect there SILH, If you go with fairway credit and stop paying them its collected back from the golf club not the individual and its up to the golf club to chase the non payer. I don't think they even register it on a credit file anywhere either. It would be up to the club to take you to small claims court if you haven't paid.
		
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Ah - that's interesting as I pay through Fairway Credit.  Not really looked into cancelling myself so didn't realise that.  So club acts as Guarantor for each member - hmmm.


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## Sweep (Feb 4, 2014)

It sounds like your current club management is very poor and a few years behind the times. Sometimes this happens and as most golf clubs are run on pretty much a voluntary basis it is often difficult to arrest the decline. Nevertheless, if you stand for a job on committee you should do your best and be prepared to take a certain amount of flak if things are not up to scratch and it sounds like your current club is a long way from offering a reasonable membership "experience".
The first and best move they could make is to change the pro and the sooner the better. Believe me, that alone can make a massive difference to a club, it's members and the general atmosphere around the place. It sounds to me like he has decided he is OK to live on his retainer and he therefore needs to put in no more effort than is absolutely neccesary. There are a lot of club pros out there that would give anything to be a head professional.
In answer to your main question, I think it is highly likely that you would have to pay for the year, which is probably fair enough to be honest. However, by the sound of it, I don't think you will be the last to leave!


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## chellie (Feb 4, 2014)

Lincoln Quaker said:



			Your slightly incorrect there SILH, If you go with fairway credit and stop paying them its collected back from the golf club not the individual and its up to the golf club to chase the non payer. I don't think they even register it on a credit file anywhere either. It would be up to the club to take you to small claims court if you haven't paid.
		
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I thought you were entering into a credit agreement with Fairway Credit so they would chase you. Could be wrong though as we don't use them.


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## stevie_r (Feb 4, 2014)

chellie said:



			I thought you were entering into a credit agreement with Fairway Credit so they would chase you. Could be wrong though as we don't use them.
		
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Our pro mentioned this last week, if payments are defaulted then the problem is thrown back at the club.  The hotel group that own our course are taking DDs in house next year, so bye bye fairway credit and their 6.1%.


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## Lincoln Quaker (Feb 4, 2014)

chellie said:



			I thought you were entering into a credit agreement with Fairway Credit so they would chase you. Could be wrong though as we don't use them.
		
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Although you are they put the responsibility back to the club to chase the debt.


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## Lincoln Quaker (Feb 4, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			Our pro mentioned this last week, if payments are defaulted then the problem is thrown back at the club.  The hotel group that own our course are taking DDs in house next year, so bye bye fairway credit and their 6.1%.
		
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6.1% is a good deal in this day with finance. And with your club doing there own dd cash flow will be a lot tighter for the start of the season, fairway credit normally pay up in full as soon as the second payment has gone out, your club will be relying on that money every month instead of a one off payment.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 4, 2014)

We had issues when the club used Fairway Credit of members joining, playing April-October and then buggering off and cancelling the DD. I think the club had the liability and was then responsible for chasing the debt. Not sure if they ever did. We brought it back in house


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## stevie_r (Feb 4, 2014)

Lincoln Quaker said:



			6.1% is a good deal in this day with finance. And with your club doing there own dd cash flow will be a lot tighter for the start of the season, fairway credit normally pay up in full as soon as the second payment has gone out, your club will be relying on that money every month instead of a one off payment.
		
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With a private members club I agree it could make start of season finances tight, but as a proprietary club of a largish hotel chain I have little, if any, concern.


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## Lincoln Quaker (Feb 4, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			With a private members club I agree it could make start of season finances tight, but as a proprietary club of a largish hotel chain I have little, if any, concern.
		
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Do you pay any interest on your in house direct debit or do the club do this as a service?


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## stevie_r (Feb 4, 2014)

Lincoln Quaker said:



			Do you pay any interest on your in house direct debit or do the club do this as a service?
		
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Bespoke Hotels are doing it interest free, so in real terms my subs are reducing slightly :thup:


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## Lincoln Quaker (Feb 4, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			Bespoke Hotels are doing it interest free, so in real terms my subs are reducing slightly :thup:
		
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Now that's a good bit of customer service, clubs doing that deserve to keep members :thup:


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 4, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			Our pro mentioned this last week, if payments are defaulted then the problem is thrown back at the club.  The hotel group that own our course are taking DDs in house next year, so bye bye fairway credit and their 6.1%.
		
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I've asked our chairman about feasibility of doing this as would enable club perhaps to come up with more interesting membership options - so for instance could offer 'fixed cost' subs over say 5 or 10 yrs with a penalty for pulling out.  But this would mean club would have to operate under the FSA - and that would be expensive to manage and not really worth it.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 4, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			We had issues when the club used Fairway Credit of members joining, playing April-October and then buggering off and cancelling the DD. I think the club had the liability and was then responsible for chasing the debt. Not sure if they ever did. We brought it back in house
		
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That's why I was a bit surprised that the club is guarantor to Fairway Credit for each member - one heck of a liability for club to carry - but if that's how it works.


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## Lincoln Quaker (Feb 4, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I've asked our chairman about feasibility of doing this as would enable club perhaps to come up with more interesting membership options - so for instance could offer 'fixed cost' subs over say 5 or 10 yrs with a penalty for pulling out.  But this would mean club would have to operate under the FSA - and that would be expensive to manage and not really worth it.
		
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You already have a consumer credit licence to do the fairway credit so if the club took it in house I don't think you would fall under the FSA and differently than you do now.

As for the non payers I don't imagine that many people do default.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 4, 2014)

Lincoln Quaker said:



			You already have a consumer credit licence to do the fairway credit so if the club took it in house I don't think you would fall under the FSA and differently than you do now.

As for the non payers I don't imagine that many people do default.
		
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Maybe I'll ask again - but we have two experienced accountants on our new committee so hopefully they'd be able to advise if it is something we should consider doing.  Chairman was pretty sure it wasn't worth it - but heck - he's our chairman. Maybe it would be to do with the fact that offering say 5 yr fixed rate deals would be offering a financial services product that we'd have to manage and administer - dunno.


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## Scrindle (Feb 4, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I've asked our chairman about feasibility of doing this as would enable club perhaps to come up with more interesting membership options - so for instance could offer 'fixed cost' subs over say 5 or 10 yrs with a penalty for pulling out.  But this would mean club would have to operate under the FSA - and that would be expensive to manage and not really worth it.
		
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I think it is more likely to be a case of obtaining a Consumer Credit License under the CCA, rather than any real interaction with the FCA (Financial Conduct Authority now!), since what you've described isn't likely to constitute a regulated activity for the purposes of the FSMA 2000 or the RAO 2001, as far as I am aware (could be wrong though!).


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 4, 2014)

Scrindle said:



			I think it is more likely to be a case of obtaining a Consumer Credit License under the CCA, rather than any real interaction with the FCA (Financial Conduct Authority now!), since what you've described isn't likely to constitute a regulated activity for the purposes of the FSMA 2000 or the RAO 2001, as far as I am aware (could be wrong though!).
		
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Yes - CC License sounds possibly what he was on about.


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## Lincoln Quaker (Feb 4, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Yes - CC License sounds possibly what he was on about.
		
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I think you will already have a CCL, I think you have to have one for fairway credit.


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## Scrindle (Feb 4, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Yes - CC License sounds possibly what he was on about.
		
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Would make more sense.  I can't give you advice but I believe you would need a Category A consumer credit license at least (at the moment your club might have a category C license that enables it to introduce members to Fairway for credit purposes, depending on how the arrangement works).  The trouble you would have with offering a 5-10 year sub period is that since the credit is being taken over a period longer than 12 months, your club would have to be compliant with Money Laundering Regulations which is a huge pain in the arse.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 4, 2014)

OP

So you like the course, they have resurfaced the car park, they are a bit expensive with their burgers and you don't like the Club Pro, You seem to find the members cliquey.  Are their regular competitions, roll ups etc that you can take part in and get to know people?

What about other members of staff?  Is it only the Pro that you have a problem with, what about bar staff, assistant Pro's etc.  Surely they are not all unhelpful.

Most Clubs have a members committee made up of elected members who organise members events, handicaps and represent the members to the owners.   Have you discussed your issues with the club Captain or Officers?  You could make your feelings known regarding the way you perceive the Club Pro, maybe others feel the same and if enough complaints are made then something will be done.   

Regarding leaving and not paying the remainder of your fees, you will have probably accepted their Terms and Conditions so should check them through, they would quite likely chase you for the remaining fees as they probably would not want to set a precedence.

If you are going to join another club in the area I would suggest 'Worcester Golf and Country Club' (Boughton Park in St Johns) is worth a look, its a very nice club and course.


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## stevie_r (Feb 4, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I've asked our chairman about feasibility of doing this as would enable club perhaps to come up with more interesting membership options - so for instance could offer 'fixed cost' subs over say 5 or 10 yrs with a penalty for pulling out.  But this would mean club would have to operate under the FSA - and that would be expensive to manage and not really worth it.
		
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Personally I wouldn't sign up for a 5 year term let alone 10.  Additionally, part way into that period, the club could be underselling itself and missing out on potential revenue; predicting demand that far in advance and trying guess what subs could potentially be in 5 years time doesn't sound too wise.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 5, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			Personally I wouldn't sign up for a 5 year term let alone 10.  Additionally, part way into that period, the club could be underselling itself and missing out on potential revenue; predicting demand that far in advance and trying guess what subs could potentially be in 5 years time doesn't sound too wise.
		
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I was only musing on possible ways of getting a commitment - not suggesting that we did it.  Thinking was around member retention - an issue for all clubs.  Rather goes back to OP.


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## stevie_r (Feb 5, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I was only musing on possible ways of getting a commitment - not suggesting that we did it.  Thinking was around member retention - an issue for all clubs.  Rather goes back to OP.
		
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It's a tricky one alright.  Gone are long waiting lists (in the main) and joining fees are becoming the exception rather than the norm; Golf is now very much a buyers market and people will quite rightly look for what they perceive to be the best deal for them.

Some suggestions from the floor at our AGM last night from people who hadn't really thought it through:

*'Stop signing the course up for voucher deals and society days'.* - That is revenue that the hotel group needs to manage the course,  we only have 221 male members and the course is fairly underplayed compared to some.  There hasn't been a subscription increase at my club for a few years now, long may it continue.

*'Increase subs and plow the extra money back into course improvements'* - And thereby risk members finding a better deal elsewhere.  In addition, there is no guarantee of course that all that increased revenue would be put back into the course by the hotel group.

_*'Reduce subs substantially and gain huge numbers of new members'*_ - Or possibly not attract many having just committed financial suicide.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 5, 2014)

My basic line of thinking was to put 'products' together than offer say 5 or 10 yr memberships - with subs for each year fixed at a very attractive level - maybe quite a bit lower than a 1 or 2 year rate.  But the longer deals have 'early cancellation' charge - to cover shortfall in subs paid over the number of years into the deal and administration costs =- so a buy-out cost.

But I don't know how it would work and whether a club would be able to get back the 'early cancellation' charge - unless you take a refundable deposit up front from which the charge is deducted if the member leaves early.  But if you hold members repayable deposits that would seem to put the club in a place that the FSA would possibly have an interest in.

Was only a thought.


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