# Why does a draw go further ?



## tommyangles (May 27, 2012)

The flight seems more penetrating and continuous but why. My bad shot was / is a manageable fade and sometimes a slice and travel 10 - 20% less.

Thanks 
Tom


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## HomerJSimpson (May 27, 2012)

In simple terms a draw is more like a top shot in tennis with lots of rolling spin and a fade is more of a drop shot with a lot more side spin. Not an exact answer I know but a simple analogy


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## JustOne (May 27, 2012)

A draw doesn't go further than a fade, Bubba hits a fade.

A draw doesn't have topspin.

When we hit a fade we generally open the face more than we do when we hit a draw eg: more loft and therefore more spin. More spin = less distance.


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## JustOne (May 27, 2012)

JustOne said:



			A draw doesn't go further than a fade, Bubba hits a fade.
		
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Let me rephrase that, a draw doesn't go further than a fade under the SAME impact conditions, it will if you hit it harder than you hit your fade though.... seems obvious? perhaps, but most people's swings are slower hitting a fade than they can achieve hitting a draw.

If you hit a ball with the same loft and speed it doesn't matter if you've imparted left or right axis tilt to the ball, it will go the same distance.


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## RGDave (May 27, 2012)

JustOne said:



			Let me rephrase that, a draw doesn't go further than a fade under the SAME impact conditions, it will if you hit it harder than you hit your fade though.... seems obvious? perhaps, but most people's swings are slower hitting a fade than they can achieve hitting a draw.

If you hit a ball with the same loft and speed it doesn't matter if you've imparted left or right axis tilt to the ball, it will go the same distance.
		
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Ouch, you've activated my spare (3rd) brain cell.

Are you saying that a robot hitting a ball with a certain set loft and certain set speed will get exactly the same distance regardless of left or right spin? If so, I get it!  that's kind of obvious.

OK, so a ball hit at 100mph with the path 2 degrees from the inside with 1 degree open face (to target, not path) will go the same as 2 degrees from the outside with 1 degree closed. Tiny draw vs tiny fade.


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## USER1999 (May 27, 2012)

RGDave said:



			Ouch, you've activated my spare (3rd) brain cell.

Are you saying that a robot hitting a ball with a certain set loft and certain set speed will get exactly the same distance regardless of left or right spin? If so, I get it!  that's kind of obvious.

OK, so a ball hit at 100mph with the path 2 degrees from the inside with 1 degree open face (to target, not path) will go the same as 2 degrees from the outside with 1 degree closed. Tiny draw vs tiny fade.
		
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Yes, exactly.


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## Crow (May 27, 2012)

On the golf course though, a draw is usually hit with a delofted face and a fade with a more lofted face so the trajectories will be different (draw being lower) and hence the draw goes further.

At least that's how I've always understood it.


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## Foxholer (May 27, 2012)

Well, a Draw by a rightee is exactly the same as a Fade by a leftee - and vice-versa. The ball can't tell the difference, so it has to be something else and Launch Angle is normally the difference - a Fade is normally launched higher, so 'stalls' quicker, while a Draw is normally lower, so has mor roll.


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## Ethan (May 27, 2012)

RGDave said:



			Ouch, you've activated my spare (3rd) brain cell.

Are you saying that a robot hitting a ball with a certain set loft and certain set speed will get exactly the same distance regardless of left or right spin? If so, I get it!  that's kind of obvious.

OK, so a ball hit at 100mph with the path 2 degrees from the inside with 1 degree open face (to target, not path) will go the same as 2 degrees from the outside with 1 degree closed. Tiny draw vs tiny fade.
		
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Not sure that is correct. An open face effectively increases the loft, a closed one decreases it. Less loft will result in more distance, assuming minimum launch conditions are achieved. 

In your experiment above, there is another variable - swing path - so you are not testing the hypothesis in isolation.


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## Ethan (May 27, 2012)

Foxholer said:



			Well, a Draw by a rightee is exactly the same as a Fade by a leftee - and vice-versa. The ball can't tell the difference, so it has to be something else and Launch Angle is normally the difference - a Fade is normally launched higher, so 'stalls' quicker, while a Draw is normally lower, so has mor roll.
		
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They are not the same. It has nothing to do with right and left, but the additional effect on loft of drawing and fading. A fade is a safer softer shot than a draw whether hit by a lefty or right.


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## RGDave (May 27, 2012)

Ethan said:



			Not sure that is correct. An open face effectively increases the loft, a closed one decreases it. Less loft will result in more distance, assuming minimum launch conditions are achieved. 

In your experiment above, there is another variable - swing path - so you are not testing the hypothesis in isolation.
		
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I thought swing path was in there...

I'm always surprised how a draw "seems" to go further and yet most draws happen with the clubface open to the target line, but closed to the path.

I still keep remembering my custom fit in 1896 (sorry, 1996) when the pro remarked how consistent I was with my path and face, which would explain my best ever season (1995-1996) when I hit draws all summer.

Shame that after the custom fit (Mizunos) I never hit one ever again.


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## duncan mackie (May 27, 2012)

Ethan said:



			Not sure that is correct. An open face effectively increases the loft, a closed one decreases it. Less loft will result in more distance, assuming minimum launch conditions are achieved. 

In your experiment above, there is another variable - swing path - so you are not testing the hypothesis in isolation.
		
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I would actually agree with both of you!

I think you are both saying the same thing in that RGDave is instinctively using 'tiny fade/tiny draw' in an attempt to negate the other factors, and you are quite rightly highlighting that there are other factors in play as soon as you start to create a draw, and certainly when you compare it to any fade!


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## mikeyn86 (Jul 3, 2014)

It is the dynamic loft presented at impact. There is less dynamic loft presented at impact when hitting a draw in comparison to the dynamic loft presented when hitting a fade. Ok now to explain this: All clubs have a loft. In general, lower lofted clubs go further than higher lofted clubs. For example, a driver usually has a loft of around 10 degrees. Compare this to a sand wedge which usually has a loft around 52 degrees. As I'm sure everyone knows, a driver goes further than a sand wedge! Ok, so now we have established that clubs have different lofts and that lower lofts go further than higher lofts we can tackle the real question... Why does hitting a club, for example a 7 iron, with a draw send the ball further than hitting a 7 iron with a fade? The answer is dynamic loft. When you hit a draw shot, the face of the club is closed (in relation to the swing path of the club). This takes loft off  the club. When you hit a fade, the club face is open (in relation to the path of the club). This puts loft on the club. As was mentioned before. less loft = more distance. It's simple really. When you want to hit your sand or lob wedge high what do you do? You open the face up to create more loft!


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## One Planer (Jul 3, 2014)

It doesn't.

I can hit a push fade as far as I can hit a draw.


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## mikeyn86 (Jul 3, 2014)

That's perfectly possible. Loft is not the only factor in distance. For example, when there is too little loft for a persons swing speed, the  ball does not launch and therefore does not travel as far as a higher lofted club. For example, I can hit a 10.5 degree driver further than I could hit a 8.5 degree driver. But Bubba Watson uses an 8.5 degree driver because, for one reason, he has a faster swing speed than me. I bet most weekend golfers could hit their 6 iron off the fairway longer than they could hit a 1 iron as 1 irons are difficult to launch. There are lots of factors that go into distance. More than I could even pretend to know. However, one thing that is 100% true, drawling the golf ball requires closing the face in relation to swing path. This delofts the club. Fading the ball requires opening the club face in relation to swing path. This adds loft to the club. Seriously though, can you push fade all your clubs as far as you can draw them? I find it difficult to believe that if you fade your wedges and mid irons they go as far as your draw, unless you can't hit a draw properly.


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## guest100718 (Jul 3, 2014)

The trouble with comparing a draw with a fade, is that most of the fades you see hit in your monthly medal are more like slices, which dont go far at all. So when you see a half decent draw smashed in to the distance it stands to reason that it goesd a lot further than a fade. I'd say go and watch a pro tour event and then you'll see what a proper fade looks like......


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## Alex1975 (Jul 3, 2014)

With a draw the club face is closed to the path so lets just call it closes, so less loft, lower flight, more roll.....


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## drdel (Jul 3, 2014)

Very simple physics - all other things being equal.
A draw has some degree of backspin which since the ball's spinning against the direction of travel causes a braking effect upon aerodynamic and on landing.

A ball hit with fade has some topspin (or much less backspin) which means its probably rotating in the same direction its travelling meaning it adds aerodynamic force and helps forward speed on landing/contact with the ground.


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## Alex1975 (Jul 3, 2014)

*You cant top spin a golf ball*!!!! It would just dive into the ground.....


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## guest100718 (Jul 3, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



*You cant top spin a golf ball*!!!! It would just dive into the ground.....
		
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Of course you can. I see it on the 1st tee every week......


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## Alex1975 (Jul 3, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Of course you can. I see it on the 1st tee every week......
		
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Hehe ye... It does that dive into the ground thing too though hu...


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## guest100718 (Jul 3, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			Hehe ye... It does that dive into the ground thing too though hu...
		
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like a topspin lob


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## rosecott (Jul 3, 2014)

Gareth said:



			It doesn't.

I can hit a push fade as far as I can hit a draw.
		
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Have you actually measured them both?


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## One Planer (Jul 3, 2014)

rosecott said:



			Have you actually measured them both?
		
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Not on the same day


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