# And, we're off.....2016/17



## Fish (Jun 15, 2016)

The new fixtures have been published so here we go......

http://www.skysports.com/premier-league-fixtures


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## Slime (Jun 15, 2016)

Fish said:



*The new fixtures have been published so here we go......*

http://www.skysports.com/premier-league-fixtures

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........... and I, for one, can't bloody wait!   :whoo:


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jun 15, 2016)

I don't know if I can stand looking at a grammar error in the title for the whole of the next season!


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## Tashyboy (Jun 15, 2016)

Mint just seen City's fixtures and I am missing three games already inc city V the Arse on Dec 17th, hope they change it to the Sunday.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 15, 2016)

Some very interesting fixtures. Liverpool arguably have the worse start of anyone


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## full_throttle (Jun 15, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Mint just seen City's fixtures and I am missing three games already inc city V the Arse on Dec 17th, hope they change it to the Sunday.
		
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City? Which Nottingham club is that then?


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 15, 2016)

Now the fixtures are out this is Paddy Power's take on Arsenal's season.......


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## Tashyboy (Jun 15, 2016)

full_throttle said:



			City? Which Nottingham club is that then?

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Nah not me, you can take the boy out of Manchester, but you can't take Manchester out of the boy.


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## PhilTheFragger (Jun 16, 2016)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			I don't know if I can stand looking at a grammar error in the title for the whole of the next season!
		
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Sorted using Super Mod Powers 

Don't say we don't do nuffink to help


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## Hacker Khan (Jun 16, 2016)

That I'd get my one and only contribution to this thread out of the way early. Back of the net.


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## Fish (Jun 16, 2016)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Sorted using Super Mod Powers 

Don't say we don't do nuffink to help 

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I did ask nicely though :smirk:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 16, 2016)

Sky News reporting Skrtel on the verge of joining Fenerbache, not a good sign for our lovable neighbours if one of their better players wants away.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jun 16, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Sky News reporting Skrtel on the verge of joining Fenerbache, not a good sign for our lovable neighbours if one of their better players wants away.
		
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Not "wants away" more Klopp has told him he won't get as much first team action, and has been off the boil for a while. He has been a bit of a liability for a while, so probably time to move on.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 16, 2016)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Not "wants away" more Klopp has told him he won't get as much first team action, and has been off the boil for a while. He has been a bit of a liability for a while, so probably time to move on.
		
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So Klopp likely to have replacements lined up, as Skrtel only signed a new contract (pre Klopp) last summer, I know he's had injuries this year, but I'd of still thought he was one of the better defensive players they have, Lovren has improved and Toure is getting on.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jun 16, 2016)

Toure has gone. He has signed Matip, a young central defender so will possibly look for another dependning on how they think Sahko will fair. Also don't forget Gomez, who was having an excellent season till his knee injury.


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## pbrown7582 (Jun 16, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Sky News reporting Skrtel on the verge of joining Fenerbache, not a good sign for our lovable neighbours if one of their better players wants away.
		
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You showing us your softer side with some brotherly concern?


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 16, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Sky News reporting Skrtel on the verge of joining Fenerbache, not a good sign for our lovable neighbours if one of their better players wants away.
		
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Thought he would have gone to the WWE.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jun 16, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Thought he would have gone to the WWE.

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Not stole enough shirts yet


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## john0 (Jun 16, 2016)

Oh I can post on this thread this season rather than that championship one with supporters of all those crap teams like Reading and Fulham &#128512;


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 16, 2016)

john0 said:



			Oh I can post on this thread this season rather than that championship one with supporters of all those crap teams like Reading and Fulham &#128512;
		
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Only for a season....only joking!


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## richart (Jun 16, 2016)

john0 said:



			Oh I can post on this thread this season rather than that championship one with supporters of all those crap teams like Reading and Fulham &#128512;
		
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You will not be missed on the Championship thread.:angry:


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 17, 2016)

Anyone know when Sky & BT announce how they've buggered up the fixture list?


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 17, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Anyone know when Sky & BT announce how they've buggered up the fixture list?
		
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Another 2 weeks I believe.

It used to be 3 days later, but longer now.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 17, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Another 2 weeks I believe.

It used to be 3 days later, but longer now.
		
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Thanks mate.  Unfortunately we are at home to Man USA on the H4H weekend; I suppose there's two hopes of that staying on Saturday so that I can sign guests in on Sundayâ€¦â€¦ :angry:


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 17, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Thanks mate.  Unfortunately we are at home to Man USA on the H4H weekend; I suppose there's two hopes of that staying on Saturday so that I can sign guests in on Sundayâ€¦â€¦ :angry:
		
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We've got West Brom at home - surely they wont move that to a Sunday, it would spoil too many people's Sunday dinners.


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## pbrown7582 (Jun 17, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Another 2 weeks I believe.

It used to be 3 days later, but longer now.
		
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If we're lucky IIRC it was nearly a month last year. 
Quite a few are obvious but don't forget some Friday nights this year too.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 17, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			If we're lucky IIRC it was nearly a month last year. 
Quite a few are obvious but don't forget some Friday nights this year too.
		
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They better hadnt make our game at Anfield the Friday night - me and my mates have a free 4ball in a comp at Woburn that day!!!


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## sawtooth (Jun 19, 2016)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36571877

Looks like Vardy is staying put.

I think that he may live to regret that decision. No disrespect to Leicester but at 29yrs old when a club like Arsenal come calling you should grab the opportunity with both hands IMO.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 19, 2016)

I disagree. He stays at Leicester and he will be a legend forever. 20 years after retiring the fans of Leicester will still love him and shake his hand. If he went to Arsenal he would just be another player. Not everything in life has to be a cold, calculating decision.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36571877

Looks like Vardy is staying put.

I think that he may live to regret that decision. No disrespect to Leicester but at 29yrs old when a club like Arsenal come calling you should grab the opportunity with both hands IMO.
		
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No, I think staying at a bigger club is understandable :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36571877

Looks like Vardy is staying put.

I think that he may live to regret that decision. No disrespect to Leicester but at 29yrs old when a club like Arsenal come calling you should grab the opportunity with both hands IMO.
		
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Why will he regret it ? What will he get at Arsenal that he can't at Leicester ?


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## sawtooth (Jun 19, 2016)

I respect his decision and in a way I'm pleased to see that he shows loyalty to the club that helped him along his way.

Just cant help thinking that when he is older and retired that he might look back and regret not taking the opportunity to join a big club like Arsenal. Same goes for other big clubs if they came in for him not just Arsenal.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 19, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What will he get at Arsenal that he can't at Leicester ?
		
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The Tube into Central London&#128515;


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## sawtooth (Jun 19, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why will he regret it ? What will he get at Arsenal that he can't at Leicester ?
		
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Playing for a big club like Arsenal.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Playing for a big club like Arsenal.
		
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Does he get a medal for that ?

And he wouldn't play week in week out though

If it was a big club winning big trophies then could understand his regret but it's not and he has just as much chance for further success with Leicester than he does with Arsenal. 

Maybe it will be a wake up call for Arsenal that being called a big club isn't enough - they have to prove it


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 19, 2016)

If you ask Alan Shearer, as many have, do you regret not joining Man Utd and staying with Newcastle he will say, without breaking stride, no. He is treated like a king up here and will be forever more. Fans appreciate loyalty, particularly at so called smaller teams and that warmth at Leicester has come through.


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## sawtooth (Jun 19, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If you ask Alan Shearer, as many have, do you regret not joining Man Utd and staying with Newcastle he will say, without breaking stride, no. He is treated like a king up here and will be forever more. Fans appreciate loyalty, particularly at so called smaller teams and that warmth at Leicester has come through.
		
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What else could he say? He is hardly going to say that he regretted leaving Newcastle besides its a bit different for Shearer as he was born there.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 19, 2016)

He could say maybe, possibly, perhaps. You can apply it to other players but Shearer is the obvious one.

I'm a romantic and I also don't see arsenal as threatening the title so I don't see the decision as overly difficult. If Guardiola and City came knocking I think that would be a harder one to say no to.


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## Hobbit (Jun 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Playing for a big club like Arsenal.
		
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Choices, choices. Play for a club that has just won the league or an also ran. Maybe he should join Preston North End... they've got fantastic history.

I know where you're coming from but you could say why not join Liverpool. Big club going nowhere.


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## sawtooth (Jun 19, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Choices, choices. Play for a club that has just won the league or an also ran. Maybe he should join Preston North End... they've got fantastic history.

I know where you're coming from but you could say why not join Liverpool. Big club going nowhere.
		
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I would say exactly the same Brian about Liverpool, you just don't turn a club like that down no matter what they may or may not have won in recent years. They are a bigger club than Leicester.

Vardy will know that its this season or never for a move to a big club , again no disrespect to Leicester.


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## sawtooth (Jun 19, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He could say maybe, possibly, perhaps. You can apply it to other players but Shearer is the obvious one.

I'm a romantic and I also don't see arsenal as threatening the title so I don't see the decision as overly difficult. If Guardiola and City came knocking I think that would be a harder one to say no to.
		
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Agreed that City could be a better bet for winning stuff but Arsenal is a big club and he could play CL football until his career ends whereas it will probably only happen once for Vardy at Leicester.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 19, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why will he regret it ? What will he get at Arsenal that he can't at Leicester ?
		
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pauldj42 said:



			The Tube into Central London&#62979;
		
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Mrs BiM likes this :thup:

:rofl:


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 19, 2016)

If he scores another 20 goals next year then another opportunity will come his way. Goal scorers are always in demand. If it goes pear shaped at Leicester this year and he is scoring goals then he could make a great January signing. Plenty of options for him still.


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## sawtooth (Jun 19, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If he scores another 20 goals next year then another opportunity will come his way. Goal scorers are always in demand. If it goes pear shaped at Leicester this year and he is scoring goals then he could make a great January signing. Plenty of options for him still.
		
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If it was me I would grab the chance now whilst its there. You just don't know if that chance will come around again, nobody knows what the future holds.


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## Hobbit (Jun 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I would say exactly the same Brian about Liverpool, you just don't turn a club like that down no matter what they may or may not have won in recent years. They are a bigger club than Leicester.

Vardy will know that its this season or never for a move to a big club , again no disrespect to Leicester.
		
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I dare say his agent has just negotiated a fantastic loyalty bonus, and will get a decent signing on fee at the end of next season.

That said, City and Utd have made their ambitions very plain. Arsenal just aren't vocal enough with their ambitions. Wenger has done a fantastic job, and wouldn't let you down in keeping them where they are, but will he really move the club forward?

I've been a supporter of his, especially earlier this season, but its time he went. That in itself would be a message of ambition, especially if they brought in a top manager.

New manager and big shopping list would send the message City, Utd & Chelsea have been sending for years. I just don't see it from Arsenal. If they where a blue chip company on the FTSE I'd put my money with them. No risk, but an average reward.

Is that attractive enough in the transfer market? Vardy says no, as did some players last summer transfer window.


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## sawtooth (Jun 19, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			I dare say his agent has just negotiated a fantastic loyalty bonus, and will get a decent signing on fee at the end of next season.

That said, City and Utd have made their ambitions very plain. Arsenal just aren't vocal enough with their ambitions. Wenger has done a fantastic job, and wouldn't let you down in keeping them where they are, but will he really move the club forward?

I've been a supporter of his, especially earlier this season, but its time he went. That in itself would be a message of ambition, especially if they brought in a top manager.

New manager and big shopping list would send the message City, Utd & Chelsea have been sending for years. I just don't see it from Arsenal. If they where a blue chip company on the FTSE I'd put my money with them. No risk, but an average reward.

Is that attractive enough in the transfer market? Vardy says no, as did some players last summer transfer window.
		
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I hear you Brian but if Vardy turned down Arsenal for another big club then fair do's. But if he rejects Arsenal for Leicester then I think that he will probably regret that in a few years when he hangs his boots up.


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## BrianM (Jun 19, 2016)

I'd be very surprised if Vardy is still at Leicester at the start of the season, he's probably made up his mind but out of respect for Leicester and he's at a major tournament with England, he's staying quiet.


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## Hobbit (Jun 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I hear you Brian but if Vardy turned down Arsenal for another big club then fair do's. But if he rejects Arsenal for Leicester then I think that he will probably regret that in a few years when he hangs his boots up.
		
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I know where you're coming from, but here's a thought. Are Arsenal that attractive? Players want to win things, not come 4th - ok, 2nd this year. City have had top players queuing up, but even UTD have struggled to attract top players in the last couple of seasons. I'd equate Arsenal as attractive as Utd at present, well maybe marginally more.

Vardy has stayed at a club with ambition and a Chairman willing to invest. They might be the next big club - City were in the doldrums for 30yrs.


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## sawtooth (Jun 19, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			I know where you're coming from, but here's a thought. Are Arsenal that attractive? Players want to win things, not come 4th - ok, 2nd this year. City have had top players queuing up, but even UTD have struggled to attract top players in the last couple of seasons. I'd equate Arsenal as attractive as Utd at present, well maybe marginally more.

Vardy has stayed at a club with ambition and a Chairman willing to invest. They might be the next big club - City were in the doldrums for 30yrs.
		
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What would you do Brian? Leicester or Arsenal?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I hear you Brian but if Vardy turned down Arsenal for another big club then fair do's. But if he rejects Arsenal for Leicester then I think that he will probably regret that in a few years when he hangs his boots up.
		
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I'll be blunt - why would he regret not going to a club that doesn't challenge for any major honours ? What does Arsenal offer him right now over Leicester 

If it was Utd or Chelsea or City then yes I would understand the regret and maybe that's who he is waiting for 

The bigger regret would be not being with Leicester in their debut CL season.


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## sawtooth (Jun 19, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'll be blunt - why would he regret not going to a club that doesn't challenge for any major honours ? What does Arsenal offer him right now over Leicester 

If it was Utd or Chelsea or City then yes I would understand the regret and maybe that's who he is waiting for 

The bigger regret would be not being with Leicester in their debut CL season.
		
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Same question for you Phil, if you are Vardy and Liverpool came calling what do you do? Join Liverpool or stay at Leicester City?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Same question for you Phil, if you are Vardy and Liverpool came calling what do you do? Join Liverpool or stay at Leicester City?
		
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Taking away being a Liverpool fan - stay at Leicester because he gets CL football

So what exactly is he going to regret if he turns down Arsenal ?


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## sawtooth (Jun 19, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Taking away being a Liverpool fan - stay at Leicester because he gets CL football

So what exactly is he going to regret if he turns down Arsenal ?
		
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Really? That surprises me. I thought that you would join the bigger club. 

OK Liverpool don't have CL next year but they will be challenging for major honours in the next 3-4 years but with Leicester you might just have a short run in CL until Xmas and then its back to oblivion. Might conceivably find yourself in a relegation battle next year (at Leicester).

Regret not joining Arsenal? One of the biggest and richest clubs in the world. Same goes for Man U, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool, City. You only have one career and in Vardy's case only a few years, he has to take the chance when its offered to him IMHO.


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## Hobbit (Jun 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			What would you do Brian? Leicester or Arsenal?
		
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I'd go where the money is. I might break my leg and retire next season. I'd be looking to maximise my earnings. Clubs have virtually no Loyalty to any player, selling when it suits, so why should a player? 

Big club has nothing to do with it for me. If Leicester offered a good loyalty bonus I'd stay. If Arsenal were offering more I'd go there, and that has nothing to do with big club.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Really? That surprises me. I thought that you would join the bigger club. 

OK Liverpool don't have CL next year but they will be challenging for major honours in the next 3-4 years but with Leicester you might just have a short run in CL until Xmas and then its back to oblivion. Might conceivably find yourself in a relegation battle next year (at Leicester).

Regret not joining Arsenal? One of the biggest and richest clubs in the world. Same goes for Man U, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool, City. You only have one career and in Vardy's case only a few years, he has to take the chance when its offered to him IMHO.
		
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Does he get a medal that says "I played for one of the richest clubs in the World" - most of the Chinese clubs are richer - should he go there ? 

Arsenal don't offer him anything he can't get at Leicestet right now - and in fact he has won a major comp with Leicester.

I have no doubt that he along with most players wants to win things and get paid well - he has that at Leicester where as at Arsenal he would only get paid well - if a trophy winning big club came in for him then maybe he would look to move on but I expect he doesn't see Arsenal as a step forward in his career - and I can see why


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## sawtooth (Jun 19, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Does he get a medal that says "I played for one of the richest clubs in the World" - most of the Chinese clubs are richer - should he go there ? 

Arsenal don't offer him anything he can't get at Leicestet right now - and in fact he has won a major comp with Leicester.

I have no doubt that he along with most players wants to win things and get paid well - he has that at Leicester where as at Arsenal he would only get paid well - if a trophy winning big club came in for him then maybe he would look to move on but I expect he doesn't see Arsenal as a step forward in his career - and I can see why
		
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Fair enough Phil that's your opinion and I respect that.

For me as a professional Vardy should jump at the chance of joining Arsenal (or another big club that comes in for him), assuming the money is the same or better. 

Infact for me its much more likely that he is holding out for another offer or two then it is that he has decided to stay at Leicester. 

For me that would make much more sense.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Fair enough Phil that's your opinion and I respect that.

For me as a professional Vardy should jump at the chance of joining Arsenal (or another big club that comes in for him), assuming the money is the same or better. 

Infact for me its much more likely that he is holding out for another offer or two then it is that he has decided to stay at Leicester. 

For me that would make much more sense.
		
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To be fair, I could understand if he went to Arsenal.


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## Slime (Jun 20, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			I know where you're coming from, but here's a thought. Are Arsenal that attractive? Players want to win things, not come 4th - ok, 2nd this year. City have had top players queuing up, but even UTD have struggled to attract top players in the last couple of seasons. *I'd equate Arsenal as attractive as Utd at present, well maybe marginally more.
*
Vardy has stayed at a club with ambition and a Chairman willing to invest. They might be the next big club - City were in the doldrums for 30yrs.
		
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Totally disagree with you here ......................... and yes, I may be biased, but United are a bigger club, they show far more ambition than Arsenal and Mourinho, regardless of what I think of him, is a far more successful coach than Wenger.



Liverbirdie said:



			To be fair, *I could understand if he went to Arsenal*.
		
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Me too, but I could also understand if he stayed at Leicester City.
He'll still get paid millions, he'll quite probably become a Leicester legend and the fairy tale continues whilst they are in the Champions League.
Okay, they'll never win it .......................... but they were never going to win the Premier League either!
He has more Premier League medals than anyone's got at Arsenal over the last dozen years or so!


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## sawtooth (Jun 20, 2016)

Slime said:



			Totally disagree with you here ......................... and yes, I may be biased, but United are a bigger club, they show far more ambition than Arsenal and Mourinho, regardless of what I think of him, is a far more successful coach than Wenger.



Me too, but I could also understand if he stayed at Leicester City.
He'll still get paid millions, he'll quite probably become a Leicester legend and the fairy tale continues whilst they are in the Champions League.
Okay, they'll never win it .......................... but they were never going to win the Premier League either!
He has more Premier League medals than anyone's got at Arsenal over the last dozen years or so!
		
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Its just a pity for Utd that you cant even enter the race to sign Vardy this Summer.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Its just a pity for Utd that you cant even enter the race to sign Vardy this Summer.
		
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Why not? Because they've not got CL footy?
Im pretty sure that if Leicester and UTD compete for a player this summer they'll choose UTD. 

RE Vardy, fair play to him if he stays. But I think he'll leave. If his intentions were to stay it's nit difficult to say that during the euros. It wouldn't add any pressure ruling out a move.


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## Fish (Jun 20, 2016)

I can understand both sides of the Vardy decision and I wholeheartedly admire his current decision to stay, it makes me wonder if the players, whom did seem to display a very good tight relationship amongst themselves on and off the field have got together and collectively through their agents and club all negotiated to stay and defend their title and play together in the CL with big bonuses on offer along with renewed contracts, if that's the case what a great story that would be, and more importantly, if they play as well as they did last season and defend their title and finish in the top 4/5 whilst having a good run in the CL and have a run in a domestic cup, again they'll break the mold of what we all take for granted with players moving on to "bigger" clubs when in fact a smaller club has the ability to compete and not be broken up to feed those big clubs and can change their fortunes and ambitions and enter the arena, and rightly so, it shouldn't be a closed shop that when a smaller club does well the natural thing is that players move on making the usual suspects squads stronger, smaller clubs need to show more ambition at times and I hope that this decision, if it stays like this, breaks new ground, and believe me, I have absolutely no love for Leicester whatsoever!  

The owners have money so why cash in, twist and carry on, pay the players to stay and build &#128077;


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 20, 2016)

Fish said:



			I can understand both sides of the Vardy decision and I wholeheartedly admire his current decision to stay, it makes me wonder if the players, whom did seem to display a very good tight relationship amongst themselves on and off the field have got together and collectively through their agents and club all negotiated to stay and defend their title and play together in the CL with big bonuses on offer along with renewed contracts, if that's the case what a great story that would be, and more importantly, if they play as well as they did last season and defend their title and finish in the top 4/5 whilst having a good run in the CL and have a run in a domestic cup, again they'll break the mold of what we all take for granted with players moving on to "bigger" clubs when in fact a smaller club has the ability to compete and not be broken up to feed those big clubs and can change their fortunes and ambitions and enter the arena, and rightly so, it shouldn't be a closed shop that when a smaller club does well the natural thing is that players move on making the usual suspects squads stronger, smaller clubs need to show more ambition at times and I hope that this decision, if it stays like this, breaks new ground, and believe me, I have absolutely no love for Leicester whatsoever!  

The owners have money so why cash in, twist and carry on, pay the players to stay and build &#62541;
		
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Agree with all of this.....although I'd have used more full stops.


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## sawtooth (Jun 20, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Why not? Because they've not got CL footy?
Im pretty sure that if Leicester and UTD compete for a player this summer they'll choose UTD. 

RE Vardy, fair play to him if he stays. But I think he'll leave. If his intentions were to stay it's nit difficult to say that during the euros. It wouldn't add any pressure ruling out a move.
		
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That's right because Utd don't have CL.


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## freddielong (Jun 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Playing for a big club like Arsenal.
		
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He obviously doesn't think he is good enough to get games at Arsenal.


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## Slime (Jun 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Its just a pity for Utd that you cant even enter the race to sign Vardy this Summer.
		
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United obviously don't want or need him.
Ibrahimovic or Vardy ..................................... erm, no brainer for me and how good will Rashford and Martial be in a year's time?


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## sawtooth (Jun 20, 2016)

freddielong said:



			He obviously doesn't think he is good enough to get games at Arsenal.
		
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Might be holding out to see if there are more offers after the Euro's. Maybe City, Chelsea or even Spurs now that they're a CL side might come in for him.

Like I said before it will be a good thing if he stays at Leicester in some ways, but from a player point of view he must be torn about joining a bigger club because it might be his last chance.


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## sawtooth (Jun 20, 2016)

Slime said:



			United obviously don't want or need him.
Ibrahimovic or Vardy ..................................... erm, no brainer for me and how good will Rashford and Martial be in a year's time?
		
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Pretty sure if Fergy was around and you were in the CL he would fork out Â£30M for Vardy no sweat.

Utd always used to have 4 decent strikers.


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## Hobbit (Jun 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Pretty sure if Fergy was around and you were in the CL he would fork out Â£30M for Vardy no sweat.

Utd always used to have 4 decent strikers.
		
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Who would be on your shopping list? Obviously pointless saying Messi, Ronaldo and some of their respective team mates. Where do you most need cover, or enhancing?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 20, 2016)

Slime said:



			United obviously don't want or need him.
Ibrahimovic or Vardy ..................................... erm, no brainer for me and how good will Rashford and Martial be in a year's time?
		
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I would say looking at last season's goals that Man Utd a goalscorer - whilst both Rashford and Martial are both very talented youngsters with potentially great futures - they don't look heavy goalscorers - playing alongside someone like Ibra would be perfect for the pair and even Vardy or Benzema or Higuain etc

But UTD need for a regular goalscorer is the same as Arsenals


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Might be holding out to see if there are more offers after the Euro's. Maybe City, Chelsea or even Spurs now that they're a CL side might come in for him.

Like I said before it will be a good thing if he stays at Leicester in some ways, but from a player point of view he must be torn about joining a bigger club because it might be his last chance.
		
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Would you rather play for a bigger club that doesn't win titles or a smaller club that does win titles ? 

Sorry Sean you keep saying "playing for a bigger club" as if it's the pinnacle alone for a player - clubs like AC Milan and Inter Milan are bigger clubs , Ajax etc etc but they struggle to attract the top players despite being a bigger club - players want more than just playing for a bigger club - surely they also want to actually compete for titles and trophies as opposed to "just playing for the bigger club".

We have struggled to attract the better players because of that exact reason.

Leicester aren't a "bigger club" but that's irrelevant when they actually go and win the title - there is more to football that just playing for a bigger club - playing for Arsenal for a non Arsenal fan ( as Vardy is ) isn't the be all and end all for a player - it isn't the pinnacle. If Arsenal and indeed Spurs and Liverpool were actually winning titles then you can say that players would be attracted to them but they aren't.


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## freddielong (Jun 20, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would you rather play for a bigger club that doesn't win titles or a smaller club that does win titles ? 

Sorry Sean you keep saying "playing for a bigger club" as if it's the pinnacle alone for a player - clubs like AC Milan and Inter Milan are bigger clubs , Ajax etc etc but they struggle to attract the top players despite being a bigger club - players want more than just playing for a bigger club - surely they also want to actually compete for titles and trophies as opposed to "just playing for the bigger club".

We have struggled to attract the better players because of that exact reason.

Leicester aren't a "bigger club" but that's irrelevant when they actually go and win the title - there is more to football that just playing for a bigger club - playing for Arsenal for a non Arsenal fan ( as Vardy is ) isn't the be all and end all for a player - it isn't the pinnacle. If Arsenal and indeed Spurs and Liverpool were actually winning titles then you can say that players would be attracted to them but they aren't.
		
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Serious question, do you know before you start typing that your post is going to be utter trolling dros or does the magic just flow when you start typing?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 20, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Serious question, do you know before you start typing that your post is going to be utter trolling dros or does the magic just flow when you start typing?
		
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How about for a change instead of just accusing people of "trolling" because they are negative towards Arsenal that you address the points or does the accusation of trolling arrive because it then helps you gloss over the points ? 

Why don't you add something to the thread instead of just throwing trolling accusations around ?

What exactly in my post is so bad that you believe is trolling ?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 20, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Serious question, do you know before you start typing that your post is going to be utter trolling dros or does the magic just flow when you start typing?
		
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I think you could be the one that is trolling in this case as, for once, I have to agree 100% with Phil.

Players are professionals and will, therefore, join or play for whichever club is best for their  career (earnings power) both now and in the future.

Therefore, what is the attraction to Vardy in joining Arsenal. Leicester can and will afford the same level of earnings and he will be getting CL exposure next season. That may further enhance his reputation, more perhaps than playing for a club that consistently underachieves relative to expectations.

All these references to "big clubs" are irrelevant. After all most would suggest that Newcastle and Villa are "big clubs", certainly bigger than Leicester, but surely would not suggest that Vardy should join either of them if they came knocking.


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## pbrown7582 (Jun 20, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I would say looking at last season's goals that Man Utd a goalscorer - whilst both Rashford and Martial are both very talented youngsters with potentially great futures - they don't look heavy goalscorers - playing alongside someone like Ibra would be perfect for the pair and even Vardy or Benzema or Higuain etc

But UTD need for a regular goalscorer is the same as Arsenals
		
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Vardy doesn't fit the way JM plays or last season under LVG's philosophy, that said don't think he fits into the Arsenal style either.


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## Hobbit (Jun 20, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Serious question, do you know before you start typing that your post is going to be utter trolling dros or does the magic just flow when you start typing?
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



			How about for a change instead of just accusing people of "trolling" because they are negative towards Arsenal that you address the points or does the accusation of trolling arrive because it then helps you gloss over the points ? 

Why don't you add something to the thread instead of just throwing trolling accusations around ?

What exactly in my post is so bad that you believe is trolling ?
		
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MetalMickie said:



			I think you could be the one that is trolling in this case as, for once, I have to agree 100% with Phil.

Players are professionals and will, therefore, join or play for whichever club is best for their  career (earnings power) both now and in the future.

Therefore, what is the attraction to Vardy in joining Arsenal. Leicester can and will afford the same level of earnings and he will be getting CL exposure next season. That may further enhance his reputation, more perhaps than playing for a club that consistently underachieves relative to expectations.

All these references to "big clubs" are irrelevant. After all most would suggest that Newcastle and Villa are "big clubs", certainly bigger than Leicester, but surely would not suggest that Vardy should join either of them if they came knocking.
		
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Sums it for me Freddie. There's only one person Trolling, and it isn't Phil.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 20, 2016)

Solent Radio is reporting Wanyama is in the process of signing for Tottenham. What are the thoughts of Saints fan on him? Looks a decent player.


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## freddielong (Jun 20, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would you rather play for a bigger club that doesn't win titles or a smaller club that does win titles ? 

Sorry Sean you keep saying "playing for a bigger club" as if it's the pinnacle alone for a player - clubs like AC Milan and Inter Milan are bigger clubs , Ajax etc etc but they struggle to attract the top players despite being a bigger club - players want more than just playing for a bigger club - surely they also want to actually compete for titles and trophies as opposed to "just playing for the bigger club".

We have struggled to attract the better players because of that exact reason.

Leicester aren't a "bigger club" but that's irrelevant when they actually go and win the title - there is more to football that just playing for a bigger club - playing for Arsenal for a non Arsenal fan ( as Vardy is ) isn't the be all and end all for a player - it isn't the pinnacle. If Arsenal and indeed Spurs and Liverpool were actually winning titles then you can say that players would be attracted to them but they aren't.
		
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Ok ignoring the obvious and just looking at this from a purely financial point of view Vardy turning down Arsenal makes no sense

Vardyâ€™s new offer from Leicester is (if you believe the rags) Â£100,000 per week (again if you believe the rags) Arsenal supposedly offered him Â£120,000 per week, the Arsenal offer will have also had some sort of signing fee (usually around 10% of the transfer fee). 

Ok you say in your post that Leicester City are a small club that wins titles, you are wrong they are a small club that has won one top flight title in 100+ years, they have been relegated 11 times in that time so it would be easy to argue that they are ten times more likely to get relegated next season than win the title again, this is especially true when you factor in the extra games they will have to play in the championâ€™s league.

Jamie Vardy is 29 now if he has a poor season next season or gets injured he will be a 30 year old in a small club with a good chance of relegation, I am also making the assumption that the offer from Leicester will have a relegation clause in it which usually halves the offered wage. If Vardy had signed the Arsenal contract he could have guaranteed his earnings for the next 3 years possibly 4, I do not think he can do that at Leicester.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Its just a pity for Utd that you cant even enter the race to sign Vardy this Summer.
		
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I don't know where you got your info but there is absolutely nothing to stop United joining the race to sign Vardy this summer. In fact if Leicester decide to sell him then they might very well welcome United getting involved. With Arsenal playing in the CL they can trigger the release clause in Vardy's contract (20 million?) which is solely for clubs playing in the CL. If United decided they wanted him they would have to offer more money but there isn't anything to stop them bidding. Who do you think Leicester would sell to if Arsenal offered 20 million and 1 pounds and United offered 40 million?


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## G.U.R (Jun 20, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Solent Radio is reporting Wanyama is in the process of signing for Tottenham. What are the thoughts of Saints fan on him? Looks a decent player.
		
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The Saints fans I work with are still pee'd off with Koeman going, this news wll not improve their moods. Tottenham wanted him last summer and failed with several bids. Why they want him when they have Dier and Dembele I'm not sure as I don't see him as being any better then either of them.


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## pbrown7582 (Jun 20, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Ok ignoring the obvious and just looking at this from a purely financial point of view Vardy turning down Arsenal makes no sense

Vardyâ€™s new offer from Leicester is (if you believe the rags) Â£100,000 per week (again if you believe the rags) Arsenal supposedly offered him Â£120,000 per week, the Arsenal offer will have also had some sort of signing fee (usually around 10% of the transfer fee). 

Ok you say in your post that Leicester City are a small club that wins titles, you are wrong they are a small club that has won one top flight title in 100+ years, they have been relegated 11 times in that time so it would be easy to argue that they are ten times more likely to get relegated next season than win the title again, this is especially true when you factor in the extra games they will have to play in the championâ€™s league.

Jamie Vardy is 29 now if he has a poor season next season or gets injured he will be a 30 year old in a small club with a good chance of relegation, I am also making the assumption that the offer from Leicester will have a relegation clause in it which usually halves the offered wage. If Vardy had signed the Arsenal contract he could have guaranteed his earnings for the next 3 years possibly 4, I do not think he can do that at Leicester.
		
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all assuming the rags have top notch info and Leicester haven't matched the deal arsenal put forward? or maybe even his agent has used arsenal to get him a pay rise at Leicester?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 20, 2016)

G.U.R said:



			The Saints fans I work with are still pee'd off with Koeman going, this news wll not improve their moods. Tottenham wanted him last summer and failed with several bids. Why they want him when they have Dier and Dembele I'm not sure as I don't see him as being any better then either of them.
		
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It gives them depth though. They play a high intensity game and that is tiring work. Throw in the CL and they will need to rotate more. Makes sense for Tottenham.

The fans would have been more hacked off if he had followed Koeman to Everton so at least that is something.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 20, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Ok ignoring the obvious and just looking at this from a purely financial point of view Vardy turning down Arsenal makes no sense

Vardyâ€™s new offer from Leicester is (if you believe the rags) Â£100,000 per week (again if you believe the rags) Arsenal supposedly offered him Â£120,000 per week, the Arsenal offer will have also had some sort of signing fee (usually around 10% of the transfer fee). 

Ok you say in your post that Leicester City are a small club that wins titles, you are wrong they are a small club that has won one top flight title in 100+ years, they have been relegated 11 times in that time so it would be easy to argue that they are ten times more likely to get relegated next season than win the title again, this is especially true when you factor in the extra games they will have to play in the championâ€™s league.

Jamie Vardy is 29 now if he has a poor season next season or gets injured he will be a 30 year old in a small club with a good chance of relegation, I am also making the assumption that the offer from Leicester will have a relegation clause in it which usually halves the offered wage. If Vardy had signed the Arsenal contract he could have guaranteed his earnings for the next 3 years possibly 4, I do not think he can do that at Leicester.
		
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The figures offered to the player are press speculation, nothing more. As for signing on fees they long since ceased to be a percentage of transfer fees and are also often paid to players when signing a new contract with their existing club.

There does appear to be a level of ignorance of the wealth of Leicester City's backers/owners and matching the salary for Vardy would not be a problem to them. As for relegation clauses, in that unlikely event he would move on for another payday. 

The problem seems to be that you are looking at this as an Arsenal fan and because you would, understandably, love the opportunity to play for them you assume players think similarly.

They don't and whatever decision Vardy ultimately makes it will not be influenced by the chance to play for a "big club". One of the biggest and most common lies in football is that peddled when a player signs for a new club and after the obligatory photo with the scarf or shirt he comes out with the usual rubbish about "a fantastic opportunity to play for such a big club" etc;

Does anybody believe that said player would take that opportunity if the money wasn't right?


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## One Planer (Jun 20, 2016)

Perhaps Vardy is one of the very (Very) rare breed of footballers who is actually loyal to his current club and contract?


Time will tell, but it's worth bearing in mind.


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## Slime (Jun 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Pretty sure if Fergy was around and you were in the CL he would fork out Â£30M for Vardy no sweat.
*
Utd always used to have 4 decent strikers*.
		
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That was back in the days when United played a 4-4-2 formation ........................... very rare these days.


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## sawtooth (Jun 20, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			I don't know where you got your info but there is absolutely nothing to stop United joining the race to sign Vardy this summer. In fact if Leicester decide to sell him then they might very well welcome United getting involved. With Arsenal playing in the CL they can trigger the release clause in Vardy's contract (20 million?) which is solely for clubs playing in the CL. If United decided they wanted him they would have to offer more money but there isn't anything to stop them bidding. Who do you think Leicester would sell to if Arsenal offered 20 million and 1 pounds and United offered 40 million?
		
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Â£20M and CL needed to trigger clause. 

"Liverpool are also interested in Vardy â€“ and would be willing to pay wages in excess of Â£100,000 a week â€“ but, crucially, the release clause in his contract only relates to clubs in the Champions League. Vardy would also be unlikely to leave Leicester, who are also in the Champions League, for a club outside Europeâ€™s elite club competition. "


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Â£20M and CL needed to trigger clause. 

"Liverpool are also interested in Vardy â€“ and would be willing to pay wages in excess of Â£100,000 a week â€“ but, crucially, the release clause in his contract only relates to clubs in the Champions League. Vardy would also be unlikely to leave Leicester, who are also in the Champions League, for a club outside Europeâ€™s elite club competition. "
		
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Don't understand your point.

The release clause is nothing other than an insurance to the player. There is nothing to prevent Leicester accepting an offer of whatever amount from whatever club and it would then be up to the player to decide if he wanted to move.

If Liverpool, Manchester United or Chelsea offered Leicester a figure that was acceptable to them then the CL status of that club would be irrelevant.


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## sawtooth (Jun 20, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Don't understand your point.

The release clause is nothing other than an insurance to the player. There is nothing to prevent Leicester accepting an offer of whatever amount from whatever club and it would then be up to the player to decide if he wanted to move.

If Liverpool, Manchester United or Chelsea offered Leicester a figure that was acceptable to them then the CL status of that club would be irrelevant.
		
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Maybe but I didn't read it that way, Leicester are not obliged to listen to offers from a club unless they meet those conditions .


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 20, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Ok ignoring the obvious and just looking at this from a purely financial point of view Vardy turning down Arsenal makes no sense

Vardyâ€™s new offer from Leicester is (if you believe the rags) Â£100,000 per week (again if you believe the rags) Arsenal supposedly offered him Â£120,000 per week, the Arsenal offer will have also had some sort of signing fee (usually around 10% of the transfer fee). 

*Ok you say in your post that Leicester City are a small club that wins titles, you are wrong they are a small club that has won one top flight title in 100+ years, they have been relegated 11 times in that time so it would be easy to argue that they are ten times more likely to get relegated next season than win the title again, this is especially true when you factor in the extra games they will have to play in the championâ€™s league.*

Jamie Vardy is 29 now if he has a poor season next season or gets injured he will be a 30 year old in a small club with a good chance of relegation, I am also making the assumption that the offer from Leicester will have a relegation clause in it which usually halves the offered wage. If Vardy had signed the Arsenal contract he could have guaranteed his earnings for the next 3 years possibly 4, I do not think he can do that at Leicester.
		
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You can equally argue that Leicester have won the title at their second attempt since their last promotion from the Championship, a 50% success rate, something Arsenal haven't managed in their last 12, never mind 2, attempts.  That's a 0% success rateâ€¦â€¦.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Maybe but I didn't read it that way, Leicester are not obliged to listen to offers from a club unless they meet those conditions .
		
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Of course they are not obliged but if they wish to accept an offer they will.

In that respect nothing has changed in football despite the advent of "release clauses".


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 20, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



*With Arsenal playing in the CL they can trigger the release clause in Vardy's contract (20 million?)* *which is solely for clubs playing in the CL.* If United decided they wanted him they would have to offer more money but there isn't anything to stop them bidding. Who do you think Leicester would sell to if Arsenal offered 20 million and 1 pounds and United offered 40 million?
		
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sawtooth said:



*Â£20M and CL needed to trigger clause.* 

"Liverpool are also interested in Vardy â€“ and would be willing to pay wages in excess of Â£100,000 a week â€“ but, crucially, the release clause in his contract only relates to clubs in the Champions League. "
		
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You've just repeated back exactly what I typed so I don't get your point. 

We've both agreed that the release clause only applies to clubs in the CL but there is nothing to stop another club making a higher offer with higher wages. You've already said Vardy should go to Arsenal as it's a bigger club and more money. What if Liverpool or United offer Leicester 40 million and 150k per week. Do you think Leicester will say "no it's ok, we'll sell you to Arsenal for 20 million less as they have triggered the release clause". Surely by your own logic he should go to one of them instead as they are bigger clubs and it's more money.


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## john0 (Jun 20, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why will he regret it ? What will he get at Arsenal that he can't at Leicester ?
		
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Some losers medals.


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## freddielong (Jun 20, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			You can equally argue that Leicester have won the title at their second attempt since their last promotion from the Championship, a 50% success rate, something Arsenal haven't managed in their last 12, never mind 2, attempts.  That's a 0% success rateâ€¦â€¦.
		
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You could If you were on the wind up


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## sawtooth (Jun 20, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			You've just repeated back exactly what I typed so I don't get your point. 

We've both agreed that the release clause only applies to clubs in the CL but there is nothing to stop another club making a higher offer with higher wages. You've already said Vardy should go to Arsenal as it's a bigger club and more money. What if Liverpool or United offer Leicester 40 million and 150k per week. Do you think Leicester will say "no it's ok, we'll sell you to Arsenal for 20 million less as they have triggered the release clause". Surely by your own logic he should go to one of them instead as they are bigger clubs and it's more money.
		
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That's the agreement with the player, he can go if a club that is in the CL offers more than Â£20M 

Leicester can't then say no you go when you say we can.  Once that clause is triggered I would say that Leicester are pretty powerless to do anything.

Vardy signs for Â£20M and gets a bumper signing on fee so he will be laughing. Somehow I don't think Vardy is the type of guy to show loyalty and compassion so my guess is that he is either genuinely focussed on England or that he is hoping for a bigger better deal either with Arsenal or elsewhere.

Time will tell.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			That's the agreement with the player, he can go if a club that is in the CL offers more than Â£20M 

Leicester can't then say no you go when you say we can.  Once that clause is triggered I would say that Leicester are pretty powerless to do anything.

Vardy signs for Â£20M and gets a bumper signing on fee so he will be laughing. Somehow I don't think Vardy is the type of guy to show loyalty and compassion so my guess is that he is either genuinely focussed on England or that he is hoping for a bigger better deal either with Arsenal or elsewhere.

Time will tell.
		
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You seem remarkably well informed on the terms of his current contract.

Release clauses are rarely that straight forward, _viz _â€‹Suarez to Arsenal.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 20, 2016)

G.U.R said:



			The Saints fans I work with are still pee'd off with Koeman going, this news wll not improve their moods. Tottenham wanted him last summer and failed with several bids. Why they want him when they have Dier and Dembele I'm not sure as I don't see him as being any better then either of them.
		
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Its a squad game though, especially when in the CL also, so you need 4 very good centre midfielders.


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## sawtooth (Jun 20, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			You seem remarkably well informed on the terms of his current contract.

Release clauses are rarely that straight forward, _viz _&#8203;Suarez to Arsenal.
		
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Not really mate I just read the papers. It will all come out in the wash it always does.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 21, 2016)

Leicester won't repeat last seasons success and will be out of the CL at the group stage (in my opinion) and so in terms of longer term progression and keeping his profile high, Vardy going to Arsenal makes perfect sense. I think they are perhaps three decent signings away from a side that can really go on and win the PL and if Wenger is spending big this summer this could be their time. Either way he'll play more games at a higher standard


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## pbrown7582 (Jun 21, 2016)

In more games you mean 1 CL knockout round? 
And as a squad player rather than a nailed on starter? At a higher standard? Leicester are champions so that's a higher standard than the rest of the league.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 21, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			In more games you mean 1 CL knockout round? 
And as a squad player rather than a nailed on starter? At a higher standard? Leicester are champions so that's a higher standard than the rest of the league.
		
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I disagree. Leicester are champions but won't repeat it and Arsenal will usually at least be competitive in the PL race (well until Easter). Again, it might only be one more CL game but still one more opportunity to perform on a bigger stage than he'll get at Leicester once they go out, and for Vardy that's what it's about in terms of keeping a regular England spot. Not sure he'll be that much of a squad player and will get games and goals. I think he'll give them that poacher (inside the six yard box) edge you'll never get from Walcott or Giroud


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## G.U.R (Jun 21, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It gives them depth though. They play a high intensity game and that is tiring work. Throw in the CL and they will need to rotate more. Makes sense for Tottenham.

The fans would have been more hacked off if he had followed Koeman to Everton so at least that is something.
		
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It does make sense for Tottenham although Holding midfield and Centre backs are positions you don't want to swap about too much, but for Southampton it makes no sense when they did so much to keep him last year. I guess it comes back to the on going argument about when a so called big club comes calling. He'll go because in the end MONEY talks and it'll be under the guise of improving as a footballer at a better club.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 21, 2016)

G.U.R said:



			It does make sense for Tottenham although Holding midfield and Centre backs are positions you don't want to swap about too much, but for Southampton it makes no sense when they did so much to keep him last year. I guess it comes back to the on going argument about when a so called big club comes calling. He'll go because in the end MONEY talks and it'll be under the guise of improving as a footballer at a better club.
		
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Wanyama has wanted out since the moment he joined us. We were a bigger club (financial package) than Celtic and now he wants his next upgrade. A few years a t Spurs and then onto a proper big club. But he'll have to perform more consistently. He's very much like mane. Saves his best for the TV games.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 21, 2016)

Don't forget that Leicester will go into the CL group stage as one of the top seeds so will have an easier group than Arsenal. They'll be up against one decent side, a reasonable side and a poor side so they have a pretty good chance of getting through the group stage if they can keep their current team together.


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## garyinderry (Jun 21, 2016)

The delusion is strong with these boys.  :rofl: 

[video=youtube;tdnzFc5_gWw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdnzFc5_gWw[/video]


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## sawtooth (Jun 21, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			The delusion is strong with these boys.  :rofl: 

[video=youtube;tdnzFc5_gWw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdnzFc5_gWw[/video]
		
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I recognise Liverbirdie , StuartC and LiverpoolPhil but who is the 4th person?


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## Stuart_C (Jun 21, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			The delusion is strong with these boys.  :rofl: 

[video=youtube;tdnzFc5_gWw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdnzFc5_gWw[/video]
		
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Embarrassing.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 22, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Embarrassing.
		
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Arrogant and embarrassing. Let's see how many of those get 20 or more next season. My money is on none of them


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 22, 2016)

I think too many of you have missed the point of what the're actually saying.......


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## Stuart_C (Jun 22, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think too many of you have missed the point of what the're actually saying.......
		
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I'll let you tell me then  as I've not watched it. 

Grown men in footy tops is a no no.


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## stokie_93 (Jun 22, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Embarrassing.
		
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Think Benteke will go.
Sturridge will be lucky to play more than 20 matches never mind score 20 goals.
Ings is a bang average striker.

The only one I really think could be good is Origi, every time i've watched him he makes things happen. He absolutely took us (Stoke) apart at Anfield; although we were awful.
Seems to fit Klopps ethos much more than Sturridge and Benteke also!


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## sawtooth (Jun 23, 2016)

The news that Vardy had decided to stay with Leicester delighted Gary Lineker.

The former Foxes striker tweeted: "A show of loyalty from @vardy7 and a show of ambition from @LCFC is to be applauded."

Vardy putting loyalty in front of his own ambition. Amazing.


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## ger147 (Jun 23, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			The news that Vardy had decided to stay with Leicester delighted Gary Lineker.

The former Foxes striker tweeted: "A show of loyalty from @vardy7 and a show of ambition from @LCFC is to be applauded."

Vardy putting loyalty in front of his own ambition. Amazing.
		
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Unless his ambition is to continue to play for Leicester and try to win more trophies with them...


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## sawtooth (Jun 23, 2016)

Fair enough Leicester might prove me wrong and compete in the top honours over the next 4 years


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## fundy (Jun 23, 2016)

Dont think he was ever leaving, his agent did a nice job using Arsenal to get him the contract he wanted at Leicester. Seems like Deeney jumped on too to get the deal he wanted at Watford

Personally think its the best move for him, its where he wants to be and not convinced he would have fitted in to the Arsenal style. Good job I like Giroud lol


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## sawtooth (Jun 23, 2016)

fundy said:



			Dont think he was ever leaving, his agent did a nice job using Arsenal to get him the contract he wanted at Leicester. Seems like Deeney jumped on too to get the deal he wanted at Watford

Personally think its the best move for him, its where he wants to be and not convinced he would have fitted in to the Arsenal style. Good job I like Giroud lol
		
Click to expand...

Do we know what deal Arsenal had on the table? Interested to know if it was 4 years


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## freddielong (Jun 23, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Do we know what deal Arsenal had on the table? Interested to know if it was 4 years
		
Click to expand...

It was supposedly 3 years with the option of an extra year if both parties agreed given that he would have been 32 by then it was essentially a 3 year deal.


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## pbrown7582 (Jun 23, 2016)

4 years at 29 is a big deal, fair play to him. But I think fundy is right his agent has played a blinder.


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## Fish (Jun 23, 2016)

Wanyama gone to Spurs


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 26, 2016)

The first play offs for the CL and Europa League start on tuesday!


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## pbrown7582 (Jun 26, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			The first play offs for the CL and Europa League start on tuesday!
		
Click to expand...

Who you playing?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 26, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Who you playing? 

Click to expand...

Just shocked how early it starts for some teams,


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## pbrown7582 (Jun 26, 2016)

Some English teams started nearly this early when they went into the intertoto Fulham and West Ham both played games mid July.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 27, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Some English teams started nearly this early when they went into the intertoto Fulham and West Ham both played games mid July.
		
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We played Europa league qualifiers mid July and it killed league form towards the end of the season. Fulham simply didn't have a deep enough squad for all their Europa games and then playbPL a few days level and it showed


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## Papas1982 (Jun 27, 2016)

Rumours Messi has retired from intl footy having lost another final. 

Appears the pressure of losing another one has got to him. 
He missed a penalty in shoot out, not the first big one he's missed. 

I hope one its just a response when feeling down  and he will reevaluate. It p hardly strikes me as the actions of a team player. Looks like he's decided it's not worth the effort. And he can just mop up more easy records. 

If if its true then as far as Argentinians are concerned he will never be the best ever.


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## Dan2501 (Jun 27, 2016)

He's just overtaken Maradona as leading goalscorer in Argentinean history, not a bad way to go out. He'll never win a world cup though, which is a shame.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 27, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



			He's just overtaken Maradona as leading goalscorer in Argentinean history, not a bad way to go out. He'll never win a world cup though, which is a shame.
		
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Quitting at 29. Purely for self interest and nit that of the team. For all his faults. Maradonna is streets ahead of him for international legacy imo.


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## pbrown7582 (Jun 27, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Quitting at 29. Purely for self interest and nit that of the team. For all his faults. Maradonna is streets ahead of him for international legacy imo.
		
Click to expand...

looks like mascherano and aguero tempted to do the same and retire from international football.


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## User62651 (Jun 27, 2016)

Gotta move on some time but he's clearly not past it yet, does seem premature given a WC in 2 years. Does seem like self interest, he might be of an age now where he'd rather spend his summers with the family on the beach. 100+ caps is a very good contribution to be fair.


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## One Planer (Jun 27, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Quitting at 29. Purely for self interest and nit that of the team. *For all his faults. Maradonna is streets ahead of him for international legacy imo*.
		
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Not really difficult is it?

The only thing Messi has won at international level is Olympic Gold.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 27, 2016)

So Â£34m gets you Mane,worlds gone mad.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 27, 2016)

The Argentinians have never really taken to him in the same way as Maradona as he left for Barcelona at such a young age. Maybe he thinks stuff it. Does he need the long flights back and dogs abuse when he can stay in Spain and be loved. The fact that such a number are retiring at once suggests he is not alone in his feeling.

Mane - Wow. If that is the benchmark figure for the summer then we are going to see some whopping fees.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 27, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Mane - Wow. If that is the benchmark figure for the summer then we are going to see some whopping fees.
		
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It makes you wonder who is actually making the decision to sanction these types of deals. I reckon it's the work experience kid.


It would be cheaper to buy Southampton's scouts.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 27, 2016)

Stuart, that last sentence make more sense that the Â£34m just spent. Clubs are rarely that smart though.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 27, 2016)

I've not seen too much of Mane,but his goal record is bang average.
So why is he valued at Â£34m?
Cracking bit of business from Southampton. 

And why aren't Liverpool going in for a Heguin or Benzema?


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## pbrown7582 (Jun 27, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			It makes you wonder who is actually making the decision to sanction these types of deals. I reckon it's the work experience kid.


It would be cheaper to buy  *Southampton*.
		
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Thats more like it!


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## Stuart_C (Jun 27, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Stuart, that last sentence make more sense that the Â£34m just spent. Clubs are rarely that smart though.
		
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Let's be honest there's very little common sense in football from top to bottom.

Mane is a decent player but not worth that type of money, but if Klopp wants him and he's not 5/6/7th  choice then sound, the manager is being backed.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 27, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			I've not seen too much of Mane,but his goal record is bang average.
So why is he valued at Â£34m?
Cracking bit of business from Southampton. 

And why aren't Liverpool going in for a Heguin or Benzema?
		
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Who does Heguin play for and how much would he cost?


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## pbrown7582 (Jun 27, 2016)

â‚¬38m bid from Palace for Marseille striker let the money go round games begin!


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 30, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Who does Heguin play for and how much would he cost?
		
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Plays for Naple,not sure what he'd cost tbh.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 30, 2016)

Batshuayi passes medical at Chelsea,tbh I'd never heard of him.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 30, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Batshuayi passes medical at Chelsea,tbh I'd never heard of him. 

Click to expand...

You're not a.one. Plays for Marseille but that's about it for me


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## Fish (Jun 30, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			You're not a.one. Plays for Marseille but that's about it for me
		
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Great signing, versatile striker, be interesting to see who starts leaving now..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/06/29/who-is-michy-batshuayi/


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## G.U.R (Jun 30, 2016)

Fish said:



			Great signing, versatile striker, be interesting to see who starts leaving now..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/06/29/who-is-michy-batshuayi/

Click to expand...

The last striker Chelsea bought from Marseille wasn't bad so fingers crossed. Falcao and Pato have already gone and Saha is expected to be off too. Conte prefers to play with 2 strikers so will be interesting to see who comes and who goes.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 30, 2016)

Fish said:



			Great signing, versatile striker, be interesting to see who starts leaving now..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/06/29/who-is-michy-batshuayi/

Click to expand...

Hopefully


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## Dan2501 (Jun 30, 2016)

G.U.R said:



			The last striker Chelsea bought from Marseille wasn't bad so fingers crossed. Falcao and Pato have already gone and _Saha_ is expected to be off too. Conte prefers to play with 2 strikers so will be interesting to see who comes and who goes.
		
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Didn't know Louis Saha was still playing, let alone for Chelsea 

Batshuayi is a handy signing. Clearly a lot of interest in him, be interesting to see how much game time he gets. I think Chelsea could be the team to beat with Conte in charge next season.


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## G.U.R (Jun 30, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



			Didn't know Louis Saha was still playing, let alone for Chelsea 

Batshuayi is a handy signing. Clearly a lot of interest in him, be interesting to see how much game time he gets. I think Chelsea could be the team to beat with Conte in charge next season.
		
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Loic Remy is what I meant, not sure where I got Saha from 

He certainly seems to get the most from his players, as long as the squad buy's into it then Chelsea will do well, though there do seem to be a few ego's there that need pampering to.


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## Dan2501 (Jun 30, 2016)

Oh there's definitely egos, but seems like Conte is the sort of character that will get results wherever he goes. No-one picked this Italy team to do anything, but he's got them playing the best football in the tournament. Chelsea will be well organised but dynamic in attack. Hazard playing well in the Euro's is a massive boost too, if he gets back on form Chelsea will be dangerous.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 30, 2016)

G.U.R said:



			Conte prefers to play with 2 strikers so will be interesting to see who comes and who goes.
		
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Unusual for a continental manager to play with two up to, will be interesting to see.


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## G.U.R (Jun 30, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Unusual for a continental manager to play with two up to, will be interesting to see.
		
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He also favours 3 at the back, but may have to adjust depending on purchases in the summer. So far I like what I've seen and heard from him. His English is already better than Ranieri's.


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## stokie_93 (Jun 30, 2016)

G.U.R said:



			Loic Remy is what I meant, 
.
		
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Would take Remy at Stoke in a heartbeat!


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## G.U.R (Jun 30, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Would take Remy at Stoke in a heartbeat!
		
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It wouldn't be a bad move, and he could be available.


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## stokie_93 (Jun 30, 2016)

G.U.R said:



			It wouldn't be a bad move, and he could be available.
		
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I know Pulis was really keen on him but don't know what Hughes thinks.

If we get Berahino as rumoured i'd be extremely chuffed but think a bigger club will step in at the end of it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 30, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



			Oh there's definitely egos, but seems like Conte is the sort of character that will get results wherever he goes. No-one picked this Italy team to do anything, but he's got them playing the best football in the tournament. Chelsea will be well organised but dynamic in attack.* Hazard playing well in the Euro's is a massive boost too, *if he gets back on form Chelsea will be dangerous.
		
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For Real Madrid of course yes ? Think he is playing for the big move abroad and would be surprised to see him stay especially without CL football. 

Batshuayi is a decent player but very much untested as such - clever movement. Certainly needs to hope get more from him compared to recent signings. 

Conte is a good manager - certainly gets a lot from his players - going to be interesting to see who else he brings in and how he handles the prem

With Pep , Klopp and Maureen plus Wenger in the league next season it could be fireworks on the sidelines - wonder what the odds are for the first one to get a touchline ban


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 30, 2016)

So Ibra's joining UTD &#128561;


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## Fish (Jul 1, 2016)

Nolito To Man City


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 1, 2016)

City are very quietly and calmly making some tidy signings. A top centre half and they are in business again.


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## G.U.R (Jul 1, 2016)

Palace have signed Townsend for Â£13M.


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## stokie_93 (Jul 1, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			City are very quietly and calmly making some tidy signings. A top centre half and they are in business again.
		
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not sure I 100% agree with you.

IF Gundogan gets back to his best then yes I'd agree because he's a brilliant player on his day. However he has been in and out of fitness so much recently that you don't know what his form is going to be like.

Nolito whilst having a good season looked way way out of his depth for Spain in the Euro's and not sure he's the right signing for City but time will tell. Â£14 mil is a risk for a 29 year old who's had 1 good season.


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## Slime (Jul 1, 2016)

Pogba back to United .............................. yes please!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 1, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			not sure I 100% agree with you.

IF Gundogan gets back to his best then yes I'd agree because he's a brilliant player on his day. However he has been in and out of fitness so much recently that you don't know what his form is going to be like.

Nolito whilst having a good season looked way way out of his depth for Spain in the Euro's and not sure he's the right signing for City but time will tell. Â£14 mil is a risk for a 29 year old who's had 1 good season.
		
Click to expand...

Fair comment but no one has looked good at the euros, I wouldn't offer Â£20 for Ronaldo on current form. I'm not a city fan but I would trust Guardiola and his judgement on players. I suppose I like the no fuss manner of their buying. Players in before pre season, no drawn out sagas. Very smooth.

As you say though, they could be dogs. Ha ha.


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## stokie_93 (Jul 1, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fair comment but no one has looked good at the euros, I wouldn't offer Â£20 for Ronaldo on current form. I'm not a city fan but I would trust Guardiola and his judgement on players. I suppose I like the no fuss manner of their buying. Players in before pre season, no drawn out sagas. Very smooth.

As you say though, they could be dogs. Ha ha.
		
Click to expand...

yeah i'm keen on managers doing that way. Really enjoyed Mark Hughes way of going about it with the majority of our transfers.

There's a few players i've really liked the look of over the Euros these include:

Draxler
Milik
Krychowiak
Kimmich
Khedira 
Kroos
Pelle
Perisic


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## stokie_93 (Jul 1, 2016)

Oh and the whole Italian defence!


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## Fish (Jul 1, 2016)

Ibrahimovic at Carrington undergoing a medical...


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 1, 2016)

So apparently Watford have turned down a Â£37.5m bid for Ighalo ðŸ¤”


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## pokerjoke (Jul 1, 2016)

Fish said:



 Ibrahimovic at Carrington undergoing a medical...

Click to expand...

Are you there?:ears:

Jose at Utd will all end in tears


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## sawtooth (Jul 1, 2016)

Slime said:



			Pogba back to United .............................. yes please!
		
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That would be a shrewd piece of business. How much did you sell him for again Â£500K?   :rofl:


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 1, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Oh and the whole Italian defence!
		
Click to expand...

Yup. Them plus German midfield. Neur or Buffon in goal. Not seen a decent striker but let's go for Levandoski. That would be quite a team.

I wonder if Conte will go raiding his old Juve team? Well worth asking the question as they are some back 4.


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## Fish (Jul 1, 2016)

I see Palace have bid Â£25m for Benteke, shouldn't there be a decimal point in there somewhere ðŸ˜œ


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## pokerjoke (Jul 1, 2016)

Fish said:



			I see Palace have bid Â£25m for Benteke, shouldn't there be a decimal point in there somewhere ðŸ˜œ
		
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And some people want Pardew as the next England manager


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 1, 2016)

Fish said:



			I see Palace have bid Â£25m for Benteke, shouldn't there be a decimal point in there somewhere ðŸ˜œ
		
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Would be a decent signing,he'll get goals if you know how to play him.
Liverpool bought him & seemed to expect him to totally change his style of play.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 1, 2016)

Were's Palace getting all this money from? Have they been bought out? Or is it the TV money?


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 1, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Were's Palace getting all this money from? Have they been bought out? Or is it the TV money?
		
Click to expand...

Tv money Â£100m to finish bottom this season!


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## Slime (Jul 2, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			That would be a shrewd piece of business. *How much did you sell him for again Â£500K?   *:rofl:
		
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How very dare you .......................... I think it was Â£800K .


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 2, 2016)

Slime said:



			How very dare you .......................... I think it was Â£800K .
		
Click to expand...

All due to Fergie making another short term decision, rather than a long term one for the good of the new incumbent.:thup:


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 2, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			All due to Fergie making another short term decision, rather than a long term one for the good of the new incumbent.:thup:
		
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Wouldn't been so bad if we had beat Blackburn that fateful December day Pogba made up his mind to leave!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 2, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Were's Palace getting all this money from? Have they been bought out? Or is it the TV money?
		
Click to expand...

Everyone's rich now, even Sunderland. The world's gone man when Crystal Palace are bidding that much for a player. It makes the drop to the championship even scarier now though.


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## Evesdad (Jul 2, 2016)

Our season rests on keeping our keys players, especially Kante, although I think he will be leaving. Â£20m release clause being quoted. Add in some additions, another pacey striker required in my opinion. Then the champions league will be ours! ðŸ˜œ


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 2, 2016)

Evesdad said:



			Our season rests on keeping our keys players, especially Kante, although I think he will be leaving. Â£20m release clause being quoted. Add in some additions, another pacey striker required in my opinion. Then the champions league will be ours! ðŸ˜œ
		
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With the crazy prices being spent & quoted so far,Â£20m for Kante looks like a bargain.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 2, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Wouldn't been so bad if we had beat Blackburn that fateful December day Pogba made up his mind to leave!
		
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Yep, bringing back an ageing Scholes instead of bringing Pogba through.


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## chrisd (Jul 2, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Everyone's rich now, even Sunderland. The world's gone man when Crystal Palace are bidding that much for a player. It makes the drop to the championship even scarier now though.
		
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We had an American investor plough in money towards the end of last season


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## NWJocko (Jul 2, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, bringing back an ageing Scholes instead of bringing Pogba through.
		
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Odd with Pogba and Pique there isn't it?

I know utd pride themselves on bringing youth through yet he seemed reluctant to give those 2 a chance and let both go for peanuts.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 2, 2016)

NWJocko said:



			Odd with Pogba and Pique there isn't it?

I know utd pride themselves on bringing youth through yet he seemed reluctant to give those 2 a chance and let both go for peanuts.
		
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Being fair, I dont think Pique had peaked yet, when he went.

Pogba ran his contract down, I think, but the main reason was due to him not feeling he was given a fair crack, exacerbated by Scholes being brought out of retirement, instead of starting to give Pogba the odd game.

Short-termism on that one, and with Fergie leaving an ageing squad, I think protected his own interests, as he could always say "well I left them as Champions". Still suffering from it IMHO.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 2, 2016)

chrisd said:



			We had an American investor plough in money towards the end of last season
		
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I do get that but the sky money is a huge game changer for every team. That input of money means some of these signings hold no financial risk.


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 2, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Being fair, I dont think Pique had peaked yet, when he went.

Pogba ran his contract down, I think, but the main reason was due to him not feeling he was given a fair crack, exacerbated by Scholes being brought out of retirement, instead of starting to give Pogba the odd game.

Short-termism on that one, and with Fergie leaving an ageing squad, I think protected his own interests, as he could always say "well I left them as Champions". Still suffering from it IMHO.
		
Click to expand...

Can't argue with that.


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## NWJocko (Jul 2, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Short-termism on that one, and with Fergie leaving an ageing squad, I think protected his own interests, as he could always say "well I left them as Champions". Still suffering from it IMHO.
		
Click to expand...

Hadn't thought about it like that as don't really care about Utd but probably a fair criticism I think.

A lot of chat with Moyes was that "Fergie won the team with them last year".....


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 2, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Can't argue with that.
		
Click to expand...

Well thats no bloody fun.


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 3, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Well thats no bloody fun.

Click to expand...

For all SAF greatness and trophies there were still many things that could of been done better, and really even more trophies should of been won.


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 3, 2016)

Mata to Everton?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 3, 2016)

Yes please. No love between him and Maureen, no need to move house.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 3, 2016)

Arsenal have agreed to sign Japan forward Takuma Asano.

Google says &#128515; 21 year old, just called up for national team, 2 goals in 11 league matches this season.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 3, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Mata to Everton?
		
Click to expand...

I hope not.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 3, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Arsenal have agreed to sign Japan forward Takuma Asano.

Google says &#55357;&#56835; 21 year old, just called up for national team, 2 goals in 11 league matches this season.
		
Click to expand...


Arsene does like having a lot of folk at his disposal...

As well as the first team squad there's [I've read] about forty others on the books...


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## freddielong (Jul 3, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Arsenal have agreed to sign Japan forward Takuma Asano.

Google says &#128515; 21 year old, just called up for national team, 2 goals in 11 league matches this season.
		
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He is to be loaned out, very quick, strong could be  a good become a very good player.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 3, 2016)

freddielong said:



			He is to be loaned out, very quick, strong could be  a good become a very good player.
		
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Or just sell a lot of shirts in Asia &#129300;


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## Papas1982 (Jul 3, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Or just sell a lot of shirts in Asia &#129300;
		
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Is the answer. Inamoto anyone.............

Same reason Utd were happy to sell Park when they signed Kagawa.


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 3, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I hope not.
		
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Good reliable source says fee agreed.

Zlatan has his shirt no. And JM doesn't rate him so I suspect it's true.


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## Fish (Jul 3, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Good reliable source says fee agreed.

Zlatan has his shirt no. And JM doesn't rate him so I suspect it's true.
		
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25m euros by all accounts and he's already agreed personal terms, looks a done deal.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 3, 2016)

A type of player Everton have not really had. Could open defences for us in a different way. If Stu is unhappy then that says enough about Mata &#128513;


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## MegaSteve (Jul 3, 2016)

Mata was always going to be on his toes...
With an incoming manager having previously expressed he's not up to the task...


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 3, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A type of player Everton have not really had. Could open defences for us in a different way. If Stu is unhappy then that says enough about Mata &#128513;
		
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That's cos stu was going build a team around him a few weeks back!


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 3, 2016)

Now official mata has signed for Everton.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 3, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



*Good reliable source says fee agreed.*

Zlatan has his shirt no. And JM doesn't rate him so I suspect it's true.
		
Click to expand...

HP or Daddies?


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## freddielong (Jul 3, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Or just sell a lot of shirts in Asia &#129300;
		
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If that's all it ends up being then that's a good thing for the club if he makes the team then that is also good.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 3, 2016)

freddielong said:



			If that's all it ends up being then that's a good thing for the club if he makes the team then that is also good.
		
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Agreed &#128077;&#127995;


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 3, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			HP or Daddies?
		
Click to expand...

Daddies definitely.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 3, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Now official mata has signed for Everton.
		
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Were you getting this from? Still no official announcement.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 3, 2016)

Telegraph insider apparently. Not official yet but it is the telegraph who are pushing the story. Deal is supposedly done between the club's, it is over to Mata now.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 3, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Telegraph insider apparently. Not official yet but it is the telegraph who are pushing the story. Deal is supposedly done between the club's, it is over to Mata now.
		
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Would be a top signing for Everton. 
Quality player.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 3, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Would be a top signing for Everton. 
Quality player.
		
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Would be a quality signing for them if it goes through.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 3, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Would be a quality signing for them if it goes through.
		
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Personally think his best days are behind him,not the player he was at Chelsea.

He might get a new lease of life away from Moyes and LVG, but dont think he'l scale the heights of what he did a few years ago.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 4, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Personally think his best days are behind him,not the player he was at Chelsea.

He might get a new lease of life away from Moyes and LVG, but dont think he'l scale the heights of what he did a few years ago.
		
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But a bit like the Zlatan signing even if he doesn't hit top form, he'll still be influential to those around him. I think he has struggled at United but think the style and managers didn't help that. I think he had enough about him to still be a quality signing and if Everton make a few more they could be on the verge of a top six or better season


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 5, 2016)

If Mata is taking this long to decide then he can stay and sit on the bench at Utd :angry: . Plenty of other players out there.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 5, 2016)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...jewel-encrusted-bathroom-fleet-supercars.html

&#128547;


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## Slime (Jul 5, 2016)

He gets paid lots of money ......................... why shouldn't he spend it.
At least it's being recycled rather than if he'd kept it all in the bank.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 5, 2016)

Slime said:



			He gets paid lots of money ......................... why shouldn't he spend it.
At least it's being recycled rather than if he'd kept it all in the bank.
		
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I agree and I would wager the article was done before the event and so typical Daily Mail spin on it to make a story out of nothing


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## Stuart_C (Jul 5, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I agree and I would wager the article was done before the event and so typical Daily Mail spin on it to make a story out of nothing
		
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Some of those pictures are from the house he lived in Southport when he was at Liverpool. It's not like the DM to spin the truth though is it.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 5, 2016)

Slime said:



			He gets paid lots of money ......................... why shouldn't he spend it.
At least it's being recycled rather than if he'd kept it all in the bank.
		
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Just all looks a bit tacky imo. 
Everybody look at this sink I've paid a stupid amount of money money for. 

We all know he's on silly money.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 5, 2016)

Interesting story and book may be worth a read http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/northern-ireland/36502589


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 5, 2016)

Seems Celtic have introduced safe standing areas in the stadium 

Could be the start of a revisit in the Prem if it proves successful with no issues


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## Stuart_C (Jul 5, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seems Celtic have introduced safe standing areas in the stadium 

Could be the start of a revisit in the Prem if it proves successful with no issues 

View attachment 20105

Click to expand...


That's better than what we've currently got.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 5, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seems Celtic have introduced safe standing areas in the stadium 

Could be the start of a revisit in the Prem if it proves successful with no issues 

View attachment 20105

Click to expand...

They have them at the westfalonstadium, in Dortmund.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 6, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			They have them at the westfalonstadium, in Dortmund.
		
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Mate is a big Dortmund fan and goes 6-7 times a year. He says it's brilliant and other than apathy by the powers that be here, there's no reason why it shouldn't be at all PL grounds. Might wake up the library at the Emirates


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 6, 2016)

Do you think Lionel Messi would like to serve his community service at Goodison? We are the people's club after all


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 7, 2016)

Jordan Ibe 15m to Bournmouth. 
What happened there?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 7, 2016)

There is going to be more of these head scratchers this summer. Mane for Â£34m, Ibe for Â£15m. Decent player but Â£15m? Agents must be buzzing around PL teams this year. Easy money for them.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 7, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			There is going to be more of these head scratchers this summer. Mane for Â£34m, Ibe for Â£15m. Decent player but Â£15m? Agents must be buzzing around PL teams this year. Easy money for them.
		
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I thought Ibe was suppose to be the next big thing.


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## stokie_93 (Jul 7, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			I thought Ibe was suppose to be the next big thing.
		
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according to a lot of fans who claim its their year...

every year.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 7, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			according to a lot of fans who claim its their year...

every year.


Click to expand...


:rofl:

He could well be the next big thing but clubs don't seem to have patience any more. Equally, maybe players don't either.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 7, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			There is going to be more of these head scratchers this summer. Mane for Â£34m, Ibe for Â£15m. Decent player but Â£15m? Agents must be buzzing around PL teams this year. Easy money for them.
		
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Using Fellaini as the barometer, it's a fair price  for ibe


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## Stuart_C (Jul 7, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			:rofl:

He could well be the next big thing but clubs don't seem to have patience any more. Equally, maybe players don't either.
		
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Having watched him, he needs to improve with his final ball and lift his head up. He always runs into players. 

Most people fell for the spiel that he was better than Sterling, I never though.


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## garyinderry (Jul 7, 2016)

Surprised he was let go. 

You would think Klopp could knock a bit of football sense into him.  

Could turn out to be a good move for the  lad.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 7, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			Surprised he was let go. 

You would think Klopp could knock a bit of football sense into him.  

Could turn out to be a good move for the  lad.
		
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I wasn't,  he has ability  just hasn't got a  football brain.


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## Tarkus1212 (Jul 7, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Just all looks a bit tacky imo. 
Everybody look at this sink I've paid a stupid amount of money money for. 

We all know he's on silly money.
		
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Lots of money but a distinct lack of taste, not hugely surprising.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 7, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Having watched him, he needs to improve with his final ball and lift his head up. He always runs into players. 

Most people fell for the spiel that he was better than Sterling, I never though. 

Click to expand...

Did make me laugh at the time when they were all giving it the old 
'Ibe's better than Sterling anyway' ðŸ˜³.

Let's be honest Â£15m buys you nothing these days in the Prem,so could be a good move for Ibe & Bournmouth.


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 7, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Using Fellaini as the barometer, it's a fair price  for ibe 

Click to expand...

You mean he's only half the player Fellaini is?


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 7, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Another 2 weeks I believe.

It used to be 3 days later, but longer now.
		
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Poxy Friday night!


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 7, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Poxy Friday night!
		
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Which one for you?  I see we are the first Monday night game, that's screwed up 3 people's arrangements that I know of already.

I see the Chelsea v Man Utd fixture has no date on the Chelsea website but showing as Sunday with no kick off time on the Utd website.  Really helpful the day before H4H. :angry:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 7, 2016)

Sunderland V Everton, 6 miles away and they've moved it to the monday night, I go to Gleneagles on the sunday!!!!! Not a big game, leave the thing alone. aaaargh


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## Stuart_C (Jul 7, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			You mean he's only half the player Fellaini is? 

Click to expand...

No, I mean Everton had yernited's pants down :rofl: 

Lallana looks a steal in comparison


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## Stuart_C (Jul 7, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Which one for you?  I see we are the first Monday night game, that's screwed up 3 people's arrangements that I know of already.

I see the Chelsea v Man Utd fixture has no date on the Chelsea website but showing as Sunday with no kick off time on the Utd website.  Really helpful the day before H4H. :angry:
		
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Be a tasty one as well against West Ham.


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 7, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Which one for you?  I see we are the first Monday night game, that's screwed up 3 people's arrangements that I know of already.

I see the Chelsea v Man Utd fixture has no date on the Chelsea website but showing as Sunday with no kick off time on the Utd website.  Really helpful the day before H4H. :angry:
		
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We got the first Friday 19th Aug home to soton.
The Chelsea v United match will be Sunday at least (we're in Europa league) but they haven't confirmed as still chance of Monday night.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 7, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			We got the first Friday 19th Aug home to soton.
The Chelsea v United match will be Sunday at least (we're in Europa league) but they haven't confirmed as still chance of Monday night.
		
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Not sure if Monday is better or worse; means I could take 3 to mine before H4H but then means leaving H4H before Slasher Nash has bought his own car back in the auction!   4pm Sunday is a pain in the butt for getting to the curry, and still won't let me get guests onto mine.  :angry:

Sometimes I think I prefer it when we were crap and football was 3pm on a Saturday afternoon.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 7, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			Surprised he was let go. 

You would think Klopp could knock a bit of football sense into him.  

Could turn out to be a good move for the  lad.
		
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If he does go, I'm glad we are inserting a buy back and sell on option, still think he has many attributes, but also needs some good coaching.

He is only 20 at the end of the day, and not the finished article.He should have taken his chance more last season after Sterling went.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 7, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Sometimes I think I prefer it when we were crap and football was 3pm on a Saturday afternoon.
		
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Yep, walking down Fulham Broadway in my.......


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 7, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Not sure if Monday is better or worse; means I could take 3 to mine before H4H but then means leaving H4H before Slasher Nash has bought his own car back in the auction!   4pm Sunday is a pain in the butt for getting to the curry, and still won't let me get guests onto mine.  :angry:

Sometimes I think I prefer it when we were crap and football was 3pm on a Saturday afternoon.
		
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Sunday will be most likely as the following week is league cup week.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 7, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Sunday will be most likely as the following week is league cup week.
		
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Reckon you'll still be in itâ€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦..?


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 7, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			If he does go, I'm glad we are inserting a buy back and sell on option, still think he has many attributes, but also needs some good coaching.

He is only 20 at the end of the day, and not the finished article.He should have taken his chance more last season after Sterling went.
		
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Isn't Klopp upto the job? &#129300;


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 8, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Reckon you'll still be in itâ€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦..?  

Click to expand...

yeah as we get a bye due to being in Europe .............you?


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## BrianM (Jul 8, 2016)

Paul Pogba, 100 million to Man Utd.
Is he worth that in this day and age, the way football is or is it just ridiculous?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 8, 2016)

Brian -I refer you to the Mane and Ibe discussions of recent days. No is the answer. It's bonkers but it shows how much cash is sloshing around in football. Oh to be a football agent, or carry the bags of a football agent.

We will be having this discussion frequesntly over this transfer window.

Regarding Pogba, a very good player. One of the best midfielders out there but not worth Â£100m


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## Slime (Jul 8, 2016)

BrianM said:



			Paul Pogba, 100 million to Man Utd.
Is he worth that in this day and age, the way football is or is it just ridiculous?
		
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Only time will tell.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 8, 2016)

Bournemouth spent Â£47,000,000 in transfers last year.
Their ground capacity is less than 11,500.
Is this the new face of televised football.


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## Kellfire (Jul 8, 2016)

As a Man Utd fan I'm excited for the coming season - on paper Mhkitaryan should be a great signing but we've said that many times recently and been wrong.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 8, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Bournemouth spent Â£47,000,000 in transfers last year.
Their ground capacity is less than 11,500.
Is this the new face of televised football.
		
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Doon - It is terrifying. I know they have a rich owner but if Bournemouth get relegated then there is no way that their finances add up. It is QPR / Leeds all over again. I want my club to do well, not Bournemouth incidentally, but more importantly I want them to be there in 10yrs time. If that means they come 6-8th in the PL rather than 3rd or 4th then so be it. Chasing the dream is dangerous.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 8, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Doon - It is terrifying. I know they have a rich owner but if Bournemouth get relegated then there is no way that their finances add up. It is QPR / Leeds all over again. I want my club to do well, not Bournemouth incidentally, but more importantly I want them to be there in 10yrs time. If that means they come 6-8th in the PL rather than 3rd or 4th then so be it. Chasing the dream is dangerous.
		
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It is sad that great teams with big support like Ajax and Celtic just cannot compete with the likes of Bournemouth in the transfer market.
But as you say I still expect them to be here in 10 years time.
Bournemouth look like they will be England's Gretna.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 8, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			As a Man Utd fan I'm excited for the coming season - on paper Mhkitaryan should be a great signing but we've said that many times recently and been wrong.
		
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Hope I'm wrong but I can see UTD being in contention at the end of the season. 
Some decent looking signings & I can certainly see Jose getting more out of the players already there.


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## Slime (Jul 8, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Hope I'm wrong but I can see UTD being in contention at the end of the season. 
Some decent looking signings & I can certainly see Jose getting more out of the players already there.
		
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I think the fact that Mourinho is getting his new players early is a very positive sign. 
That way they have a pre-season with their new team mates.
United definitely in with a shout if they get Pogba too!


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 8, 2016)

What's with the pyro at tranmere?


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 8, 2016)

Slime said:



			I think the fact that Mourinho is getting his new players early is a very positive sign. 
That way they have a pre-season with their new team mates.
United definitely in with a shout if they get Pogba too!
		
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Is Pogba really worth the money being reported? 
From what I've seen he does look good,But is he Â£100m+ good?

PS I'd take him at Chelsea.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 8, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			What's with the pyro at tranmere?
		
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No pyro, no party!:thup:


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## Stuart_C (Jul 9, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			What's with the pyro at tranmere?
		
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The obsession begins again.......


#No Pyro, No Party


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## Stuart_C (Jul 9, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			No pyro, no party!:thup:
		
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Isoz I didn't see this post!!!


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## Fish (Jul 9, 2016)

Slime said:



			I think the fact that Mourinho is getting his new players early is a very positive sign. 
That way they have a pre-season with their new team mates.
United definitely in with a shout if they get Pogba too!
		
Click to expand...

So, are you starting to enjoy the Jose journey, I always said, with united's war chest and structure and the way he goes about his preparation, Jose would be very dangerous if he ended up there against anywhere else in the PL, minimum top 3 but with a strong confident start, runners up at least!



Pin-seeker said:



			Is Pogba really worth the money being reported? 
From what I've seen he does look good,But is he Â£100m+ good?

PS I'd take him at Chelsea.
		
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Nobody is worth Â£100m, but if he ends up at united for any amount of money, he'll be a huge threat and a massive asset to the team/squad that Jose is building!


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## freddielong (Jul 9, 2016)

I am really looking forward to the meltdown when he realises it is too big a task for him and he gets annoyed by all the pressure.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 9, 2016)

Fish said:



			So, are you starting to enjoy the Jose journey, I always said, with united's war chest and structure and the way he goes about his preparation, Jose would be very dangerous if he ended up there against anywhere else in the PL, minimum top 3 but with a strong confident start, runners up at least!



Nobody is worth Â£100m, but if he ends up at united for any amount of money, he'll be a huge threat and a massive asset to the team/squad that Jose is building!
		
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Nobody is worth Â£20m really. 
It really is madness when you think about it.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 9, 2016)

freddielong said:



			I am really looking forward to the meltdown when he realises it is too big a task for him and he gets annoyed by all the pressure.
		
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Wishfull thinking Freddie? 
It certainly adds a bit more spice to the Arsenal v Utd fixtures. 
Jose really does know how to get to Wenger.


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## freddielong (Jul 9, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Wishfull thinking Freddie? 
It certainly adds a bit more spice to the Arsenal v Utd fixtures. 
Jose really does know how to get to Wenger.
		
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Maybe I just cannot see it working.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 9, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Maybe I just cannot see it working.
		
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Time will tell. 
They're now 2 favourites to win the title.

Personally I can't see past Chelsea &#128556;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 9, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			What's with the pyro at tranmere?
		
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Checkout the Danny Ings tribute videos on Youtube from the match:rofl:

#delusional


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 9, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Isoz I didn't see this post!!!
		
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Oh god, starting to spout the same sheeeeeiiiiiii... as you know.


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 9, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			No pyro, no party!:thup:
		
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Get that but why risk a banning order?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Is Pogba really worth the money being reported? 
From what I've seen he does look good,But is he Â£100m+ good?

PS I'd take him at Chelsea.
		
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Not sure Pogba is worth that much, considering it didn't work out that well last time. He has improved but by no means the stand out players of the EC's. Think Jose is being canny getting all the deals done early so everyone can gel and have a full pre-season together


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 9, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Get that but why risk a banning order?
		
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Have you seen us the last two seasons?


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## Fish (Jul 9, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Have you seen us the last two seasons?

Click to expand...

Yeah, bit like a wet banger &#128540;


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 9, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Have you seen us the last two seasons?

Click to expand...

When are all these world class players going to arrive that Klopp was suppose to attract? &#128580;


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## GG26 (Jul 10, 2016)

Leicester have already done some great business, which appears to have gone under the radar.  Mendy and Musa signed this week


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 10, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			When are all these world class players going to arrive that Klopp was suppose to attract? &#128580;
		
Click to expand...

As I've said before without European football, how many will want to come to Liverpool when there is a chance to go elsewhere and play CL/Europa League. I think it really is a big part of a lot of deals this year and it must be hard to attract big names without a guarantee they'll be playing European football after the coming season either.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 10, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			As I've said before without European football, how many will want to come to Liverpool when there is a chance to go elsewhere and play CL/Europa League. I think it really is a big part of a lot of deals this year and it must be hard to attract big names without a guarantee they'll be playing European football after the coming season either.
		
Click to expand...

Hey, cant we have a rest from the Liverpool-fest for two months, until the season starts.:thup:


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## Papas1982 (Jul 10, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Hey, cant we have a rest from the Liverpool-fest for two months, until the season starts.:thup:
		
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I Believe predictable Liverpool baiting is officially allowed to start each pre season you sign a saints player........


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 10, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Hey, cant we have a rest from the Liverpool-fest for two months, until the season starts.:thup:
		
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I know you've not got any home games for a bit but isn't it *1* month until the season starts?


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 10, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			I know you've not got any home games for a bit but isn't it *1* month until the season starts? 

Click to expand...

We wont get a point until September, so ours starts then.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 10, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			I Believe predictable Liverpool baiting is officially allowed to start each pre season you sign a saints player........
		
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They become sinners, as soon as we sign them.....apart from Clyne.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 10, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			They become sinners, as soon as we sign them.....apart from Clyne.
		
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I think Lallana will have a shot at redemption under Klopp.....

Mane for Â£34m is great business for us. Talent in bundles and wouldn't be surprised to see him do well for you, but for us he only ever showed up when the cameras were there.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 11, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			I think Lallana will have a shot at redemption under Klopp.....

Mane for Â£34m is great business for us. Talent in bundles and wouldn't be surprised to see him do well for you, but for us he only ever showed up when the cameras were there.
		
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We're normally on live more than you, so I'll expect a spike in his offensive statistics.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 11, 2016)

Can we forget about that Euro nonsense now and get back to some proper football. Yeeeessssss. 

Dear Mr Koeman - please go and buy some players. Thank you, LT


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 11, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can we forget about that Euro nonsense now and get back to some proper football. Yeeeessssss. 

Dear Mr Koeman - please go and buy some players. Thank you, LT
		
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thought we kept hearing you have one of the best squads ever and was just the dodgy manager? ..........


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 11, 2016)

We have a decent squad that under performed and I expect Ronnie to sort that with a decent level of organisation. All teams need to move forward though and we lack a bit of class in midfield in particular, inbetween the sticks clearly and we also need better back up / options up front. No problem with admitting any of that.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 11, 2016)

Pelle has just signed for a Chinese club. Kerrrrrching for his wallet but the end of his career for Italy in reality. Liverpool will be gutted, a Southampton player they missed out on :rofl:


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 12, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Pelle has just signed for a Chinese club. Kerrrrrching for his wallet but the end of his career for Italy in reality. Liverpool will be gutted, a Southampton player they missed out on :rofl:
		
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What if he goes on to be a leading scorer in the Chinese league? Will Italy ignore a man in form? I agree it's a bit of a gamble in pursuit of easy money especially as he seems to have got himself a regular place in national side


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 12, 2016)

Being the leading scorer in the Chinese league is no great feat. It is like being top scorer in the US or some other mickey mouse league. It's a pub league with some very expensive star players brought in.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 12, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We have a decent squad that under performed and I expect Ronnie to sort that with a decent level of organisation. All teams need to move forward though and we lack a bit of class in midfield in particular, inbetween the sticks clearly and we also need better back up / options up front. No problem with admitting any of that.
		
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From what I saw on TV live matches I would suggest that your greatest weaknesses are in defence.

One decent full-back and one who is shot, one ageing CB, one reasonable CB still getting to terms with the PL and a young one who thinks he is a cross between Moore and Beckenbauer (he isn't!).

Also short on goal scorers, particularly if Lukaku leaves.

Kept hearing this about decent squad but iffy manager but I'm afraid that, to me, your squad was nowhere near being better than a 10th - 15th placed club.


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 12, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Pelle has just signed for a Chinese club. Kerrrrrching for his wallet but the end of his career for Italy in reality. Liverpool will be gutted, a Southampton player they missed out on :rofl:
		
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cant blame him really at 30 couple of good years on mega money and sit on the beach for the rest of his life!
will in still be 1st choice for Italy in 2 years for the WC.  also think the Chinese league will get a lot more respect over next couple of years with the money they are throwing at it. Some big name players are taking the $'s and heading that way.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 12, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			From what I saw on TV live matches I would suggest that your greatest weaknesses are in defence.

One decent full-back and one who is shot, one ageing CB, one reasonable CB still getting to terms with the PL and a young one who thinks he is a cross between Moore and Beckenbauer (he isn't!).

Also short on goal scorers, particularly if Lukaku leaves.

Kept hearing this about decent squad but iffy manager but I'm afraid that, to me, your squad was nowhere near being better than a 10th - 15th placed club.
		
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I agree that the weakness was in defence but not the rest of the analysis. Our keepers were poor last year. Baines in ageing but still very good, they have an able replacement in Galloway. Coleman is still very good. Jagielka is a solid PL defender, not international class but still better than Cahill and Smalling in my view. Stones can be top draw with an arm around his shoulder and someone in his ear, Fuenes Mori is a more than decent player. I would have no problem with the same defence and a new keeper. The defence is solid PL standard. A decent manager will get that defence playing properly again. The issue was method and organisational and I expect that to be resolved.

We are short on goalscorers even if Lukaku stays. We are overly dependent on him and that needs to change this year.

Proof is in the pudding, not long to go now. Bring on the Spurs.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 12, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I agree that the weakness was in defence but not the rest of the analysis. Our keepers were poor last year. Baines in ageing but still very good, they have an able replacement in Galloway. Coleman is still very good. Jagielka is a solid PL defender, not international class but still better than Cahill and Smalling in my view. Stones can be top draw with an arm around his shoulder and someone in his ear, Fuenes Mori is a more than decent player. I would have no problem with the same defence and a new keeper. The defence is solid PL standard. A decent manager will get that defence playing properly again. The issue was method and organisational and I expect that to be resolved.

We are short on goalscorers even if Lukaku stays. We are overly dependent on him and that needs to change this year.

Proof is in the pudding, not long to go now. Bring on the Spurs.
		
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Sorry but that defence, as Jagielka and Baines get older and Stones continues to flatter to deceive, ain't much better than the Villa defence last season.

As for Jagielka being better than Cahill and Smalling (neither of whom are great); you must be having a laugh. At least the latter two can still run.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 12, 2016)

I'd still take him over both of them.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 12, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			From what I saw on TV live matches I would suggest that your greatest weaknesses are in defence.

One decent full-back and one who is shot, one ageing CB, one reasonable CB still getting to terms with the PL and a young one who thinks he is a cross between Moore and Beckenbauer (he isn't!).

Also short on goal scorers, particularly if Lukaku leaves.

Kept hearing this about decent squad but iffy manager but I'm afraid that, to me, your squad was nowhere near being better than a 10th - 15th placed club.
		
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Hindsight is a wonderful thing&#128515;


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 12, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			From what I saw on TV live matches I would suggest that your greatest weaknesses are in defence.

One decent full-back and one who is shot, one ageing CB, one reasonable CB still getting to terms with the PL and a young one who thinks he is a cross between Moore and Beckenbauer (he isn't!).

Also short on goal scorers, particularly if Lukaku leaves.

Kept hearing this about decent squad but iffy manager but I'm afraid that, to me, your squad was nowhere near being better than a 10th - 15th placed club.
		
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Sorry Mickie, but Everton had a team that could/should have finished top 5-8 last season. Just look how many points that they lost in the last 10 minutes of games that they had dominated, and IMHO it was down to Martinez's "philosophy" of playing the same way, whether it's the 1st or the 95th minute.

BTW - Why are you talking Villa's defence up, and me Everton's team - what's happened to us?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Sorry Mickie, but Everton had a team that could/should have finished top 5-8 last season. Just look how many points that they lost in the last 10 minutes of games that they had dominated, and IMHO it was down to Martinez's "philosophy" of playing the same way, whether it's the 1st or the 95th minute.

BTW - Why are you talking Villa's defence up, and me Everton's team - what's happened to us?

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Always thought Martinez was a charlatan.

However, poorer players tend to get tired towards end of games and that is when their shortcomings are exposed.

At the start of last season I would have said that Man City, Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool, Stoke and Soton were better squads than Everton who, for the reasons I have stated, I would have seen as on a par with West Ham. So 9th or 10th would have been a reasonable expectation.

As yet there does not appear to have been much of an improvement to their squad and,  hence, my remark of 10th to 15th.

But early days yet!


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## Fish (Jul 12, 2016)

I've heard Wenger has told Thiery Henry he can't be involved anymore with the youth at Arsenal whilst he continues to be a TV pundit as its a conflict of interest as he may have to critique them!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 12, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Always thought Martinez was a charlatan.

However, poorer players tend to get tired towards end of games and that is when their shortcomings are exposed.

At the start of last season I would have said that Man City, Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool, Stoke and Soton were better squads than Everton who, for the reasons I have stated, I would have seen as on a par with West Ham. So 9th or 10th would have been a reasonable expectation.

As yet there does not appear to have been much of an improvement to their squad and,  hence, my remark of 10th to 15th.

But early days yet!
		
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So completely wrong about Chelsea and no mention of Leicester and 6 of the teams mentioned changed their manager, not sure what you based Stoke and Soton on as they had both had 1 good season finishing above Everton.
Don't get me wrong I'm certainly not saying Everton are top 6 material, infact currently we are way short of that and will have to wait and see what Koeman does, I would be happy to see him achieve 7-9 this season as a lot of "normality" in my opionion will be resumed, ie Chelsea/Arsenal and the 2 Manchester clubs fighting it out for top 4, Spurs and LPool will mix it up taking some points of the top 4, West Ham seem to be happy to sell anyone at the right price, Soton are selling again and who knows how they'll start, don't rate Stoke so see Everton behind this lot, long way off 15th. All will depend on who we keep or sell.


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 12, 2016)

Fish said:



			I've heard Wenger has told Thiery Henry he can't be involved anymore with the youth at Arsenal whilst he continues to be a TV pundit as its a conflict of interest as he may have to critique them!
		
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Daily Mail? 

Update hes left the club and will completee his UEFA Pro Licence elsewhere.


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## Fish (Jul 12, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Daily Mail? 

Update hes left the club and will completee his UEFA Pro Licence elsewhere.
		
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BBC TV lunchtime news actually


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So completely wrong about Chelsea and no mention of Leicester and 6 of the teams mentioned changed their manager, not sure what you based Stoke and Soton on as they had both had 1 good season finishing above Everton.
Don't get me wrong I'm certainly not saying Everton are top 6 material, infact currently we are way short of that and will have to wait and see what Koeman does, I would be happy to see him achieve 7-9 this season as a lot of "normality" in my opionion will be resumed, ie Chelsea/Arsenal and the 2 Manchester clubs fighting it out for top 4, Spurs and LPool will mix it up taking some points of the top 4, West Ham seem to be happy to sell anyone at the right price, Soton are selling again and who knows how they'll start, don't rate Stoke so see Everton behind this lot, long way off 15th. All will depend on who we keep or sell.
		
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15th would certainly be extreme I agree but I really can't see higher than 10th (at the moment) and allowance always has to be made for surprise teams.

Stoke have IMO a very under-rated squad, Soton seem to be a very well organised club and I am afraid I don't see West Ham as a selling club.

But who knows? After all not many would have forecast Chelsea or Leicester doing what they did last season.


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## Hobbit (Jul 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So completely wrong about Chelsea and no mention of Leicester and 6 of the teams mentioned changed their manager, not sure what you based Stoke and Soton on as they had both had 1 good season finishing above Everton.
Don't get me wrong I'm certainly not saying Everton are top 6 material, infact currently we are way short of that and will have to wait and see what Koeman does, I would be happy to see him achieve 7-9 this season as a lot of "normality" in my opionion will be resumed, ie Chelsea/Arsenal and the 2 Manchester clubs fighting it out for top 4, Spurs and LPool will mix it up taking some points of the top 4, West Ham seem to be happy to sell anyone at the right price, Soton are selling again and who knows how they'll start, don't rate Stoke so see Everton behind this lot, long way off 15th. All will depend on who we keep or sell.
		
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That's hindsight Paul. No one expected Chelsea to implode, and Mickie did say, "at the start of the season." I'm surprised where Everton finished because they looked so good for 70-80 mins of pretty much every match. But the numbers don't lie. And its a fine line between 1-0, 1-1, 1-2. Villa lost the plot completely towards the end of the season, but there's plenty of teams that but for the luck of the bounce occasionally could have been fighting relegation, and then its about mindset.

I can't see Everton anywhere near 9th or better unless the new manager can do a Raineri and bring in some discipline to the structure and how they play out the games for 95mins. The top 7, as you have identified, will be pretty much those teams, and maybe Leicester in a honeymoon period. 

I'd put Stoke and Everton on a par with West Ham. And then its how the cards fall in some matches as to who finishes above who.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 12, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			That's hindsight Paul. No one expected Chelsea to implode, and Mickie did say, "at the start of the season." I'm surprised where Everton finished because they looked so good for 70-80 mins of pretty much every match. But the numbers don't lie. And its a fine line between 1-0, 1-1, 1-2. Villa lost the plot completely towards the end of the season, but there's plenty of teams that but for the luck of the bounce occasionally could have been fighting relegation, and then its about mindset.

I can't see Everton anywhere near 9th or better unless the new manager can do a Raineri and bring in some discipline to the structure and how they play out the games for 95mins. The top 7, as you have identified, will be pretty much those teams, and maybe Leicester in a honeymoon period. 

I'd put Stoke and Everton on a par with West Ham. And then its how the cards fall in some matches as to who finishes above who.
		
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Hindsight was my point Brian, at the start of last season we'd only finished outside the top 7 twice in 12 seasons and finished 5th with a points total that would have been top 4 in all but 3 Premier League seasons, the season before with the same players, so how someone could state our squad at the start of last season was at best 10-15 is laughable against the records of Stoke/Soton and West Ham over the same period.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 12, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			15th would certainly be extreme I agree but I really can't see higher than 10th (at the moment) and allowance always has to be made for surprise teams.

Stoke have IMO a very under-rated squad, Soton seem to be a very well organised club and I am afraid I don't see West Ham as a selling club.

But who knows? After all not many would have forecast Chelsea or Leicester doing what they did last season.
		
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When a chairman puts a minimum selling price on your best player (Payet) rather than simply saying they are not for sale, imo sends out the wrong message.

Stoke have flattered to deceive for many years and Southampton are selling again and will have to rebuild.

As you say though, who knows and let's just hope it's a good season.


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## Hobbit (Jul 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Hindsight was my point Brian, at the start of last season we'd only finished outside the top 7 twice in 12 seasons and finished 5th with a points total that would have been top 4 in all but 3 Premier League seasons, the season before with the same players, so how someone could state our squad at the start of last season was at best 10-15 is laughable against the records of Stoke/Soton and West Ham over the same period.
		
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I see where you're coming from now. I'd rather look at what clubs are doing and what difference it will make to their position. For me, Stoke have looked like they've been improving incrementally for a few seasons. West Ham, With Bilic, look good, and are well organised like Leicester - maybe punching above their weight as Leicester have. Soton have made good strides in recent years.

Whereas I feel Everton have gone backwards. Forget the league position for a second or two. What improvements has there been to Everton's squad in the last couple of seasons? There's the odd good one come in, e.g. Lukaku.

Don't get me wrong, I've got a soft spot for Everton. Their fans, when they've come up to the Riverside, are immense. Loudest by far. But it needs a shake up or that 15th spot is looking a fair call.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Hindsight was my point Brian, at the start of last season we'd only finished outside the top 7 twice in 12 seasons and finished 5th with a points total that would have been top 4 in all but 3 Premier League seasons, the season before with the same players, so how someone could state our squad at the start of last season was at best 10-15 is laughable against the records of Stoke/Soton and West Ham over the same period.
		
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But those other sides were and are taking steps to try and improve. Everton had been stagnating for several seasons.

Of course it may be different this close season but I am expressing an opinion based upon the current Everton squad. My view was the same last season (trust me that is not hindsight) and sadly I was proved right.

I have nothing against your club, in fact I tend to follow their performances quite closely as a dear friend of mine (sadly now departed) was an Evertonian, but at this point in time I do not see much cause for optimism. Better manager but same players!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 12, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			I see where you're coming from now. I'd rather look at what clubs are doing and what difference it will make to their position. For me, Stoke have looked like they've been improving incrementally for a few seasons. West Ham, With Bilic, look good, and are well organised like Leicester - maybe punching above their weight as Leicester have. Soton have made good strides in recent years.

Whereas I feel Everton have gone backwards. Forget the league position for a second or two. What improvements has there been to Everton's squad in the last couple of seasons? There's the odd good one come in, e.g. Lukaku.

Don't get me wrong, I've got a soft spot for Everton. Their fans, when they've come up to the Riverside, are immense. Loudest by far. But it needs a shake up or that 15th spot is looking a fair call.
		
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Fair points made by you both  and Martinez failure to at least maintain if not move forward from him getting 5th in his first season is whats cost him his job.
He spent over 80 mil in the last 2 seasons and brought players like Lennon, Funes Mori, Deulofeu and Niasse, Cleverley on a free, he also bought Lukaku and Kone in his first year.

Add to the above we refused to sell players like Stones and Barkley.

So it's not as if he wasn't given chances for us to move forward, so to say we didn't isn't correct, the club gave him the backing, but he made some dodgy buys.

I genuinely believe it'll be more about who stays rather than who comes in. The current squad is more than good enough to be top 8.

Martinez has us at 5th, 11th and 11th with 2 semi finals as well last season, I'm sure many teams would accept that, but to me, and thankfully the club, it's not good enough.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 12, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Always thought Martinez was a charlatan.

However, poorer players tend to get tired towards end of games and that is when their shortcomings are exposed.

At the start of last season I would have said that Man City, Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool, Stoke and Soton were better squads than Everton who, for the reasons I have stated, I would have seen as on a par with West Ham. So 9th or 10th would have been a reasonable expectation.

As yet there does not appear to have been much of an improvement to their squad and,  hence, my remark of 10th to 15th.

But early days yet!
		
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I dunno, if you "rate" Everton's team on an individual basis,yes, they are probably around 6-8th, but the same could be said for Spurs.

However, as proved by Leicester and some teams in the Euros, a team can be well more than a sum of it's parts.

I do agree with you on Bobby Martinez though, which is why I didnt want him at Anfield, when we had talks with him.


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## Tarkus1212 (Jul 15, 2016)

Sky Sports reporting that Chelsea have agreed a deal with Leicester for Kante, is he the new Makalele? One of the main reasons behind Leicester's success last season IMHO. An excellent signing for Chelsea if true.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 15, 2016)

Tarkus1212 said:



			Sky Sports reporting that Chelsea have agreed a deal with Leicester for Kante, is he the new Makalele? One of the main reasons behind Leicester's success last season IMHO. An excellent signing for Chelsea if true.
		
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Totally agree, Chelsea will be back amongst it next season, great signing if they pull it off.


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## Fish (Jul 15, 2016)

Tarkus1212 said:



			Sky Sports reporting that Chelsea have agreed a deal with Leicester for Kante, is he the new Makalele? One of the main reasons behind Leicester's success last season IMHO. An excellent signing for Chelsea if true.
		
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Agreed transfer of 32m, just personal terms to be agreed, but looks like a done deal, very pleased with this signing &#128077;


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 15, 2016)

Tarkus1212 said:



			Sky Sports reporting that Chelsea have agreed a deal with Leicester for Kante, is he the new Makalele? One of the main reasons behind Leicester's success last season IMHO. An excellent signing for Chelsea if true.
		
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Mixed feelings.  No doubting his quality and if true it can only improve upon the shambles that was last season, but at the same time disappointed that it appears the Leicester City team that so charmed us last season and restored the romance, and in some ways a degree of morality, to the Premier League may be starting to break up.  It would have been interesting to see what they could have achieved as a unit.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 15, 2016)

Tarkus1212 said:



			Sky Sports reporting that Chelsea have agreed a deal with Leicester for Kante, is he the new Makalele? One of the main reasons behind Leicester's success last season IMHO. An excellent signing for Chelsea if true.
		
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I really didnt want any of our rivals to get him, think he's a great signing.


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 15, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I really didnt want any of our rivals to get him, think he's a great signing.
		
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None of them have  :rofl:


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## One Planer (Jul 16, 2016)

Kante to Chelsea.

Rumoured Â£30M


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## Fish (Jul 16, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Kante to Chelsea.

Rumoured Â£30M
		
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Bit late to the party #310 - #313


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## One Planer (Jul 16, 2016)

Fish said:



			Bit late to the party #310 - #313



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Meh.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 16, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Totally agree, Chelsea will be back amongst it next season, great signing if they pull it off.
		
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Chelsea building a decent looking squad for the season and I can see them being right up there for the title. Think they'll do well in CL as well


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 16, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Chelsea building a decent looking squad for the season and I can see them being right up there for the title. Think they'll do well in CL as well
		
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I'll take the bite, 10th didn't qualify for CL?


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 16, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I'll take the bite, 10th didn't qualify for CL?
		
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:rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 16, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			:rofl:
		
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You couldn't make it up&#128515;


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 16, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Chelsea building a decent looking squad for the season and I can see them being right up there for the title. Think they'll do well in CL as well
		
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I was aware of the typo when I re-emerged after a doze to get the hangover sorted. Big, big night - me bad. *HOWEVER* I think top four next season and will then take the CL by storm the year after!


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 16, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			You couldn't make it up&#128515;
		
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On about made up just seen some season ticket figures got to be made up?

You 32500
Across the park 25000 that can't be right?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 16, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			On about made up just seen some season ticket figures got to be made up?

You 32500
Across the park 25000 that can't be right?
		
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That's probably the amount sold to locals, the other 20,000+ they sell,  will be to their fans from Scandinavia and Devon :rofl:

Without the ground increase they have 55% Season tickets, Everton are 73%


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## Stuart_C (Jul 16, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			On about made up just seen some season ticket figures got to be made up?

You 32500
Across the park 25000 that can't be right?
		
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Old news that la, they make more money on GA tickets than they do with ST's.  Those glory hunters will travel from all over the land, Everton wouldn't know what glory is :whoo:


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## sawtooth (Jul 16, 2016)

Fish said:



			Agreed transfer of 32m, just personal terms to be agreed, but looks like a done deal, very pleased with this signing &#128077;
		
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That should please Vardy, not.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 16, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			That should please Vardy, not.
		
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You aren't bitter that he turned you down are you ?


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			That's probably the amount sold to locals, the other 20,000+ they sell,  will be to their fans from Scandinavia and Devon :rofl:

Without the ground increase they have 55% Season tickets, Everton are 73%
		
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Biggest myth going that there are more blues than reds in the city.:thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 17, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Biggest myth going that there are more blues than reds in the city.:thup:
		
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But still you bite every time it's mentioned :rofl:


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 17, 2016)

My cousin is a season ticket holder at Liverpool and he says every time someone near him gives up their ticket it gets bought by Thomas Cook. Joking apart there is a big market for bundled holiday packages including football matches involving certain clubs. Liverpool are one of those. The buyer goes to the match, spends a fortune in the club shop. Repeat for a different person every home match. More money for the club than a season ticket holder who buys his shirt, once, goes to the match, end of spending. Everton don't have that worldwide appeal.

I don't know if those season ticket figures are true or just ribbing but I understand why if they are true.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 17, 2016)

They're correct as at March this year, that's why when they brag about their waiting list you should take it with a pinch of salt, they are near the bottom of clubs and % of season tickets allocated, I'm sure if everyone else dropped from the mid 70's% to their level, a lot of clubs woukd have waiting lists, as you say, the visitor is preffered to the local.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 17, 2016)




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## Pin-seeker (Jul 17, 2016)

Demba Ba suffered a horrific broken leg.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 17, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Demba Ba suffered a horrific broken leg.
		
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Seen a clip. DO NOT WATCH IF YOU ARE SQUEAMISH. Absolute horror


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			They're correct as at March this year, that's why when they brag about their waiting list you should take it with a pinch of salt, they are near the bottom of clubs and % of season tickets allocated, I'm sure if everyone else dropped from the mid 70's% to their level, a lot of clubs woukd have waiting lists, as you say, the visitor is preffered to the local.
		
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Your right in some ways, but some clubs prefer to cap the number of season tickets available, so it shouldnt be used as a bench mark for attendance levels.

If Liverpool had a stadium of 75,000 they could sell out for 80% of weekend PL games. If Everton's held 50,000 they wouldnt, unless they drastically lowered the tickets.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 17, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Your right in some ways, but some clubs prefer to cap the number of season tickets available, so it shouldnt be used as a bench mark for attendance levels.

If Liverpool had a stadium of 75,000 they could sell out for 80% of weekend PL games. If Everton's held 50,000 they wouldnt, unless they drastically lowered the tickets.
		
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More than happy to accept you get bigger crowds, the point is, at whose cost, how are the other 20,000 sold?, your waiting list is closed and yet you only have 25,000 season tickets, that tells me the Club is greedy for the travelling fan, even if you's raised season tickets to by 5,000 they'd sell instantly, not really looking after the local community are they.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			More than happy to accept you get bigger crowds, the point is, at whose cost, how are the other 20,000 sold?, your waiting list is closed and yet you only have 25,000 season tickets, that tells me the Club is greedy for the travelling fan, even if you's raised season tickets to by 5,000 they'd sell instantly, not really looking after the local community are they.
		
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Lots are sold to "members", which is the next level down from season ticket holders, supporters clubs, travel "partners" etc.

I wouldnt defend Liverpool fc that much in terms of ticketing policies, especially in comparison to Everton.

Here is a recent initiative, albeit brought on as a result of recommendations by the supporters club committees, spirit of Shankly pressure, as well as last years walkout:-

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/ann...e-ticket-initiatives-for-young-and-local-fans

One possible reason for the difference between Everton's and Liverpool's policies, is Liverpool dont have to, and Everton have to be somewhat more "creative" to fill their ground.:whoo:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 17, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Lots are sold to "members", which is the next level down from season ticket holders, supporters clubs, travel "partners" etc.

I wouldnt defend Liverpool fc that much in terms of ticketing policies, especially in comparison to Everton.

Here is a recent initiative, albeit brought on as a result of recommendations by the supporters club committees, spirit of Shankly pressure, as well as last years walkout:-

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/ann...e-ticket-initiatives-for-young-and-local-fans

One possible reason for the difference between Everton's and Liverpool's policies, is Liverpool dont have to, and Everton have to be somewhat more "creative" to fill their ground.:whoo:
		
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Glad to see they are working closely with fans groups, but, you have to ask why the need to do this? Have they been neglecting the locals over the years?


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Glad to see they are working closely with fans groups, but, you have to ask why the need to do this? Have they been neglecting the locals over the years?
		
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Probably various things, but due to the prices they charged they have priced out a lot of locals over the years, so initiatives like this are going the right way.

Its probably the same for Man U - a worldwide fanbase means that they can charge a premium for tickets (in the north), but doesnt help for lots of locals.


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## fundy (Jul 18, 2016)

sounds like Allardyce is leaving Sunderland, must be a done deal for Eng mgr


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 18, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Probably various things, but due to the prices they charged they have priced out a lot of locals over the years, so initiatives like this are going the right way.

Its probably the same for Man U - a worldwide fanbase means that they can charge a premium for tickets (in the north), but doesnt help for lots of locals.
		
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we have a different outlook! flog as many season tickets as you can get the money in, in June if not late May for the following season, claim the interest on 60000 season tickets lock all ST holders into Automatic cup scheme too, open up membership on June 1st for remaining tickets put these on sale as soon as fixtures announced except premium games.
When we get  midweek league Europa cup match then offer tickets to local schools claiming to be thinking of locals but really its a case of not being able to shift tickets!

although we haven't had a price increase for 4 season on ST but match day tickets have.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 18, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			we have a different outlook! flog as many season tickets as you can get the money in, in June if not late May for the following season, claim the interest on 60000 season tickets lock all ST holders into Automatic cup scheme too, open up membership on June 1st for remaining tickets put these on sale as soon as fixtures announced except premium games.
When we get  midweek league Europa cup match then offer tickets to local schools claiming to be thinking of locals but really its a case of not being able to shift tickets!

although we haven't had a price increase for 4 season on ST but match day tickets have.
		
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Yeah, your right - the Glazers have been forcing you to watch them since Fergie went.


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## sawtooth (Jul 18, 2016)

Arsenal linked to quite a few attacking players this Summer, still no signatures yet though. :-(

Draxler
Lacazette
Mahrez
Morata
Higuain
Icardi

Come on Wenger season starts soon!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 18, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Arsenal linked to quite a few attacking players this Summer, still no signatures yet though. :-(

Draxler
Lacazette
Mahrez
Morata
Higuain
Icardi
VARDY

Come on Wenger season starts soon!
		
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You been watching Sesame Street again? :rofl:


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 18, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Arsenal linked to quite a few attacking players this Summer, still no signatures yet though. :-(

Draxler
Lacazette
Mahrez
Morata
Higuain
Icardi

Come on Wenger season starts soon!
		
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Realistically how many do you really expect to be playing for you next year. One at most?


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## Papas1982 (Jul 18, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Arsenal linked to quite a few attacking players this Summer, still no signatures yet though. :-(

Draxler
Lacazette
Mahrez
Morata
Higuain
Icardi

Come on Wenger season starts soon!
		
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Ill call it early that you'll sign none of those. But one or two more with potential.


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## sawtooth (Jul 18, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Realistically how many do you really expect to be playing for you next year. One at most?
		
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I think one will have to happen we've lost Welbeck for half the season so Wenger needs to do something. He showed with Vardy bid that he is serious about getting a someone in , just a matter of who and when. 

Lacazette is looking the most likely. The one I definitely cant see happening is Higuain. too expensive for Wenger and he is getting on a bit.


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## Fish (Jul 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Arsenal linked to quite a few attacking players this Summer, still no signatures yet though. :-(

Draxler
Lacazette
Mahrez
Morata
Higuain
Icardi

Come on Wenger season starts soon!
		
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Easy statement, "none of the above"!

As normal you'll sign some little known French African youngster with potential, no doubt Wenger will improve him but then the player will move on to win things &#128540;&#128514;


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 19, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yeah, your right - the Glazers have been forcing you to watch them since Fergie went.

Click to expand...




Fish said:



			Easy statement, "none of the above"!

As normal you'll sign some little known French African youngster with potential, no doubt Wenger will improve him but then the player will move on to win things &#55357;&#56860;&#55357;&#56834;
		
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:rofl: :rofl:


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## Kellfire (Jul 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			He showed with Vardy bid that he is serious about getting a someone in
		
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Arsenal showed they were happy to pay a relatively low buy out clause and have made no big signings since that attempt failed.

If they are serious then it seems no one wants to join so far.


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## stokie_93 (Jul 19, 2016)

Â£20 Million bid submitted for Berahino!

Go get him Hughesy!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 19, 2016)

Stokie - Why on earth would you want him? His attitude has stunk for 2-3 years now. I get he has talent but part of team building is getting the right type of person.


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## sawtooth (Jul 19, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Arsenal showed they were happy to pay a relatively low buy out clause and have made no big signings since that attempt failed.

If they are serious then it seems no one wants to join so far.
		
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Yes mate but if the players heart is not in it or if he ( or agent) is demanding too much money then what can you do? I said before Wenger will not sign someone because he happens to win the player over by money alone. Recipe for disaster.


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## stokie_93 (Jul 19, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Stokie - Why on earth would you want him? His attitude has stunk for 2-3 years now. I get he has talent but part of team building is getting the right type of person.
		
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his attitude has stunk because West Brom have forced him to stay, no player that wants away is ever going to be happy are they?

He's an out and out goalscorer, something that we've not had since joining the Premiership and an area we've always lacked in.

Arnautovic's attitude apparently was awful when he joined and look how that's ended up for us.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 19, 2016)

Could go either way. I hope he reacts well for you.


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## stokie_93 (Jul 19, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Could go either way. I hope he reacts well for you.
		
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Likewise, there's no denying he's a good player and just what we need.

Along with a CB and defensive mid!


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 19, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Â£20 Million bid submitted for Berahino!

Go get him Hughesy!
		
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He's all that is wrong with the young modern footballer.


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## Piece (Jul 19, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Â£20 Million bid submitted for Berahino!

Go get him Hughesy!
		
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I hope you get him. Saves us from having him!


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## stokie_93 (Jul 19, 2016)

Piece said:



			I hope you get him. Saves us from having him! 

Click to expand...

I'm still laughing at the amount of money you turned down for Deeney


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## Hosel Fade (Jul 19, 2016)

fundy said:



			sounds like Allardyce is leaving Sunderland, must be a done deal for Eng mgr
		
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Apparently Bruce has been for an interview. Doubt even the FA are that daft though even if he were to offer to do it for a years supply of serssidge rerls from Gregg's


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 19, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			I'm still laughing at the amount of money you turned down for Deeney 

Click to expand...

Surely that was a wind up.


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## stokie_93 (Jul 19, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Surely that was a wind up.
		
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Â£25 mil for a bang average 28 year old championship player?

Woulda drove him to Leicester myself!


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## Hosel Fade (Jul 19, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Â£25 mil for a bang average 28 year old championship player?

Woulda drove him to Leicester myself!
		
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In all fairness he is a bit better than bang average championship level, scored 1 in 2 his last three seasons in there and 1 in 3 this season in the PL. Doesn't get injured either, think it really is a sign of the times.


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## Piece (Jul 19, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			I'm still laughing at the amount of money you turned down for Deeney 

Click to expand...

Yeah, me too! Wasn't enough...he's invaluable to us


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## stokie_93 (Jul 19, 2016)

Hosel Fade said:



			In all fairness he is a bit better than bang average championship level, scored 1 in 2 his last three seasons in there and 1 in 3 this season in the PL. Doesn't get injured either, think it really is a sign of the times.
		
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6 of his goals were penalties last season, for someone who missed so little games you're saying 9 isn't an average amount of goals for a striker?

I understand that Deeney is valuable as a whole to Watford but Â£25 million is a lot of money to turn down for someone of his calibre.


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## Piece (Jul 19, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			6 of his goals were penalties last season, for someone who missed so little games you're saying 9 isn't an average amount of goals for a striker?

I understand that Deeney is valuable as a whole to Watford but Â£25 million is a lot of money to turn down for someone of his calibre.
		
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Deeney also provided a fair number of assists last year. Penalties are a skill itself; just ask Berahino 

Would I pay Â£25m for him if I wasn't a fan? Unlikely.


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## Hosel Fade (Jul 19, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			6 of his goals were penalties last season, for someone who missed so little games you're saying 9 isn't an average amount of goals for a striker?I understand that Deeney is valuable as a whole to Watford but Â£25 million is a lot of money to turn down for someone of his calibre.
		
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 Think its a case of Watford wanting to avoid the unknown, not really played him right up front this season either.

Just been looking at the penalty stats this season, it went totally over my head just how many Leicester got given

 Leicester 13
Man City 8
Watford 7
Then there is a bunch on 5
Outliers on the low end are Arsenal & Liverpool only getting 2 each
Suppose one might also say he is a quality penalty taker and that in itself costs money


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## stokie_93 (Jul 19, 2016)

Hosel Fade said:



			Think its a case of Watford wanting to avoid the unknown, not really played him right up front this season either. Just been looking at the penalty stats this season, it went totally over my head just how many Leicester got given. Leicester 13Man City 8Watford 7Then there is a bunch on 5Outliers on the low end are Arsenal & Liverpool only getting 2 eachSuppose one might also say he is a quality penalty taker and that in itself has value
		
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Danny Higginbotham was a fantastic penalty taker for us, wouldn't rate him at Â£25 million  

Ighalo I would have in a flash for that price but just couldn't fathom paying that much for Deeney!


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 19, 2016)

Bang average Prem player/very good championship player imo.


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## Piece (Jul 19, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Danny Higginbotham was a fantastic penalty taker for us, wouldn't rate him at Â£25 million  

Ighalo I would have in a flash for that price but just couldn't fathom paying that much for Deeney!
		
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Rumoured Chinese offer of Â£37.5m wasn't enough for Ighalo. I think that is more unbelievable that Â£25m for Deeney.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 19, 2016)

Piece said:



			Rumoured Chinese offer of Â£37.5m wasn't enough for Ighalo. I think that is more unbelievable that Â£25m for Deeney.
		
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Did that offer really happen? 
Personally I don't believe it for one minute. 
But I stand to be corrected.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 19, 2016)

Liverpool have signed a 30yr old Estonia international for Â£5m. 
Finally the Klopp starts to attract the world class players ðŸ˜‚


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## stokie_93 (Jul 19, 2016)

Piece said:



			Rumoured Chinese offer of Â£37.5m wasn't enough for Ighalo. I think that is more unbelievable that Â£25m for Deeney.
		
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his filthy scoop turn is worth an extra 12.5 mil


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 19, 2016)

Chinese clubs are offering mad money so I would not be surprised by any offer coming from there. Super rich people looking to show off their wealth with a new toy.


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## Piece (Jul 19, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			his filthy scoop turn is worth an extra 12.5 mil 

Click to expand...

:whoo::thup:


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## Fish (Jul 19, 2016)

Steve Walsh off to Everton as Director of Football, a deal has been agreed in principle with Leicester!


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 19, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Liverpool have signed a 30yr old Estonia international for Â£5m. 
Finally the Klopp starts to attract the world class players ðŸ˜‚
		
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So cutting. So funny :rofl::rofl:


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## Evesdad (Jul 19, 2016)

Fish said:



			Steve Walsh off to Everton as Director of Football, a deal has been agreed in principle with Leicester!
		
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Gutted about this, he's revolutionised our scouting system.


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## sawtooth (Jul 19, 2016)

Fish said:



			Steve Walsh off to Everton as Director of Football, a deal has been agreed in principle with Leicester!
		
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They say it's all about the players so if Steve Walsh works his magic at Everton they can expect to be a much improved team in the future.

Might even do a Leicester who knows.


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## sawtooth (Jul 19, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Ill call it early that you'll sign none of those. But one or two more with potential.
		
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Yep , it looks like we are signing Rob Holding from Bolton for Â£2M . Not the finished article but a top prospect .....apparently.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yep , it looks like we are signing Rob Holding from Bolton for Â£2M . Not the finished article but a top prospect .....apparently.
		
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Apparently it was 10m last year. 

Not it sure whether that means you've got a great deal, or his not as good as first thought........


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## Fish (Jul 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			They say it's all about the players so if Steve Walsh works his magic at Everton they can expect to be a much improved team in the future.

*Might even do a Leicester who knows*.
		
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You just in from the pub


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## sawtooth (Jul 20, 2016)

Fish said:



			You just in from the pub 

Click to expand...

I did have a few lagers and ciders last night but in the cold light of day.....your're right. 

What was I thinking?!


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 20, 2016)

If UTD get Pogba they'll be the team to beat this season &#128547;


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## stokie_93 (Jul 20, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			If UTD get Pogba they'll be the team to beat this season &#63011;
		
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is it only me who doesn't see the huge hype around him?

He's a good player no denying that but he didn't exactly set the euros alight?
although I think he's played in a more advanced role for Juve and not seen much of him there...


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## Hobbit (Jul 20, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			is it only me who doesn't see the huge hype around him?

He's a good player no denying that but he didn't exactly set the euros alight?
although I think he's played in a more advanced role for Juve and not seen much of him there...
		
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No, it's not just you. He's probably got the physique needed to play up front in the Prem, but I think his first touch can let him down too often. A couple of good centre backs to clatter him a few times might show if he's got the appetite for it...


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## stokie_93 (Jul 20, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			No, it's not just you. He's probably got the physique needed to play up front in the Prem, but I think his first touch can let him down too often. A couple of good centre backs to clatter him a few times might show if he's got the appetite for it...
		
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For me he's got to play as a box to box because he's not defensive minded enough to sit deep but to me he hasn't got the feet to play in attacking mid role.

It'll certainly be interesting to see if he could adapt to the pace of the premiership.

Ryan Shawcross will put him in his place :thup:


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 20, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			For me he's got to play as a box to box because he's not defensive minded enough to sit deep but to me he hasn't got the feet to play in attacking mid role.

It'll certainly be interesting to see if he could adapt to the pace of the premiership.

Ryan Shawcross will put him in his place :thup:
		
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The old "but could he do it on a cold Monday night at Stoke" argument!

And we wonder why the English game lags behind the rest of the world when we make heroes out of players like Shawcross and Skirtl whose talents are holding, shirt pulling, tripping, kicking opponents, lumping the ball upfield and just occasionally passing to a team-mate.

Every team needs its destroyers but don't hold them up to be a measure.


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## stokie_93 (Jul 20, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			The old "but could he do it on a cold Monday night at Stoke" argument!

And we wonder why the English game lags behind the rest of the world when we make heroes out of players like Shawcross and Skirtl whose talents are holding, shirt pulling, tripping, kicking opponents, lumping the ball upfield and just occasionally passing to a team-mate.

Every team needs its destroyers but don't hold them up to be a measure.
		
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Bias maybe but Shawcross is a fantastic defender. 

Don't make assumptions on what the media tells you. :thup:


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 20, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Bias maybe but Shawcross is a fantastic defender. 

Don't make assumptions on what the media tells you. :thup:
		
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I have seen more than enough of him (and his ilk) to form my own opinion and Shawcross is a destroyer rather than a defender, to me there is a difference.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 20, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			is it only me who doesn't see the huge hype around him?

He's a good player no denying that but he didn't exactly set the euros alight?
although I think he's played in a more advanced role for Juve and not seen much of him there...
		
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I've not seen too much of him tbh. 
But he must be decent if he's being valued at Â£100m


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## stokie_93 (Jul 20, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			I have seen more than enough of him (and his ilk) to form my own opinion and Shawcross is a destroyer rather than a defender, to me there is a difference.
		
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you've seen the tackle a mistimed but not malicious challenge on Ramsey? 

Shawcross has come on massively since Hughes joined too and he's actually a brilliant passer of the ball and very comfortable on the ball. I'm sure he'd be in the England set up a lot more if he didn't play for Stoke.

Shows last year how good of a defender he is when returning from injury we had 6/7 clean sheets in a row.
The lads a brilliant player who has been ridiculed and labelled as a 'rough' player from one tackle and Aaron Ramsey playing on it for the last 5 years.

I for one am delighted that he's our captain.


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## stokie_93 (Jul 20, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			I've not seen too much of him tbh. 
But he must be decent if he's being valued at Â£100m
		
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We're living in a day & age where Christian Benteke is supposedly worth Â£32.5 million


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			They say it's all about the players so if Steve Walsh works his magic at Everton they can expect to be a much improved team in the future.
		
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A while ago on this thread I joked, I think it was me but if it was someone else then I apologise, that Liverpool should be hiring the head of recruitment at Southampton instead of spending small fortunes on buying the players that this guy had picked out. It looks as though Everton have followed this theory with Walsh. I hope he signs soon, we need to get some players in. If he comes off then the compensation fee to Leicester will be paid back in bucket loads.


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## fundy (Jul 20, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			you've seen the tackle a mistimed but not malicious challenge on Ramsey? 

Shawcross has come on massively since Hughes joined too and he's actually a brilliant passer of the ball and very comfortable on the ball. I'm sure he'd be in the England set up a lot more if he didn't play for Stoke.

Shows last year how good of a defender he is when returning from injury we had 6/7 clean sheets in a row.
The lads a brilliant player who has been ridiculed and labelled as a 'rough' player from one tackle and *Aaron Ramsey playing on it for the last 5 years.*

I for one am delighted that he's our captain.
		
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get over yerself lol, the stoke fans still booo Ramsey for having the gall to put his leg in the way of Shawcross disgusting over the ball "tackle". hardly a one off tackle either, plenty of others over the years


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## stokie_93 (Jul 20, 2016)

fundy said:



			get over yerself lol, the stoke fans still booo Ramsey for having the gall to put his leg in the way of Shawcross disgusting over the ball "tackle". hardly a one off tackle either, plenty of others over the years
		
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Ramsey is the one that needs to get over it 

Strikes me as ridiculous that a player would deny another professional the chance to play international football for a mistimed tackle. :smirk:


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## fundy (Jul 20, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Ramsey is the one that needs to get over it 

Strikes me as ridiculous that a player would deny another professional the chance to play international football for a mistimed tackle. :smirk:
		
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Ramsey isnt denying Shawcross anything, he just isnt good enough. And its Shawcross who stopped Ramsey playing for best part of a year!!!!


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## stokie_93 (Jul 20, 2016)

fundy said:



			Ramsey isnt denying Shawcross anything, he just isnt good enough. And its Shawcross who stopped Ramsey playing for best part of a year!!!!
		
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...y-doesnt-want-Ryan-Shawcross-Wales-squad.html

no didn't deny him anything at all.

This stuff happens mate, it's a contact sport.
Ramsey's leg was already planted when Ryan tackled him and any sort of contact moving at that speed was going to break it, he clearly had all eyes on the ball and was probably an inch over the top of the ball.

The lad was in absolute bits the moment it happened and couldn't be sorry enough.
The 1 thing that annoyed me most about Ramsey is he acted like it had never ever happened to anyone else and it was 'the worst thing that could happen on a pitch' despite incidents such as Marc-Vivien Foe and Fabrice Muamba.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 20, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			you've seen the tackle a mistimed but not malicious challenge on Ramsey? 

Shawcross has come on massively since Hughes joined too and he's actually a brilliant passer of the ball and very comfortable on the ball. I'm sure he'd be in the England set up a lot more if he didn't play for Stoke.

Shows last year how good of a defender he is when returning from injury we had 6/7 clean sheets in a row.
The lads a brilliant player who has been ridiculed and labelled as a 'rough' player from one tackle and Aaron Ramsey playing on it for the last 5 years.

I for one am delighted that he's our captain.
		
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My assessment of him deliberately excludes the Ramsey tackle, which , I agree, was mistimed rather than malicious.

However, it was also massively reckless and the Stoke fans continued baiting of Ramsey is, even by the standards of football supporters, pathetic and boorish. 

If you believe him to be a "brilliant passer"  and "very comfortable on the ball" we must clearly have massively different standards.

 A more than adequate destroyer but not a brilliant player nor international standard.


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## stokie_93 (Jul 20, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			My assessment of him deliberately excludes the Ramsey tackle, which , I agree, was mistimed rather than malicious.

However, it was also massively reckless and the Stoke fans continued baiting of Ramsey is, even by the standards of football supporters, pathetic and boorish. 

If you believe him to be a "brilliant passer"  and "very comfortable on the ball" we must clearly have massively different standards.

 A more than adequate destroyer but not a brilliant player nor international standard.
		
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Either we have very different standards or I watch him play week in week out? 
Each to their own though I guess


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## BrianM (Jul 20, 2016)

Juventus reject Â£85 million bid from Man Utd for Pogba, wow, wonder how much they want.....


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 20, 2016)

As much as they can get. Win win for Juve. Too much and they keep him for another year and sell him for Â£85m next year. Squeeze the pips nice and tight. In their shoes I would ask Â£100m and see what happens. Madness.


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## freddielong (Jul 20, 2016)

Lcardi to Arsenal looks like a goer.


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 20, 2016)

BrianM said:



			Juventus reject Â£85 million bid from Man Utd for Pogba, wow, wonder how much they want.....
		
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believed Â£13m of that was in add ons, they want there Â£85 plus add ons not far apart and reckon even Dick n Ed cant fail on this one.......


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 20, 2016)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36844570.

Wow I think we shall be seeing quite a few five a side finishes. :lol:

Still OK to shove folk around at free kicks and diving though.


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 20, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36844570.

Wow I think we shall be seeing quite a few five a side finishes. :lol:

Still OK to shove folk around at free kicks and diving though.
		
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reckon we ought to have a sweep stake on number of reds on 1st weekend?

5 or more anyone........?


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## fundy (Jul 20, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...y-doesnt-want-Ryan-Shawcross-Wales-squad.html

no didn't deny him anything at all.

This stuff happens mate, it's a contact sport.
Ramsey's leg was already planted when Ryan tackled him and any sort of contact moving at that speed was going to break it, he clearly had all eyes on the ball and was probably an inch over the top of the ball.

The lad was in absolute bits the moment it happened and couldn't be sorry enough.
The 1 thing that annoyed me most about Ramsey is he acted like it had never ever happened to anyone else and it was 'the worst thing that could happen on a pitch' despite incidents such as Marc-Vivien Foe and Fabrice Muamba.
		
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sorry is Ramsey the Welsh manager now then, I didnt realise that


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 20, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36844570.

Wow I think we shall be seeing quite a few five a side finishes. :lol:

Still OK to shove folk around at free kicks and diving though.
		
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This is a welcome move but I agree that there needs to be a similarly tough attitude to shirt pulling and holding at corners and free-kicks as well as diving.

Strange that some who welcome this and say that it could lead to 10 v 9 are the same people who suggest that action cannot be taken on shirt pulling etc; as it could lead to too many red cards.


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## freddielong (Jul 20, 2016)

BrianM said:



			Juventus reject Â£85 million bid from Man Utd for Pogba, wow, wonder how much they want.....
		
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Its not a very good bargaining position when you describe something as an initial bid.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 20, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			believed Â£13m of that was in add ons, they want there Â£85 plus add ons not far apart and reckon even Dick n Ed cant fail on this one....... 

Click to expand...

 
I've heard scary amounts going to the player and agent. How much will the club actually get?We are probably best not knowing.


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## stokie_93 (Jul 20, 2016)

fundy said:



			sorry is Ramsey the Welsh manager now then, I didnt realise that
		
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Chris Coleman declared interest in Shawcross but would only call him up at Ramsey's discretion.

If you read the article you would've seen that :thup:


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## fundy (Jul 20, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Chris Coleman declared interest in Shawcross but would only call him up at Ramsey's discretion.

If you read the article you would've seen that :thup:
		
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Sounds like Colemans lack of balls to me, if hes manager and wants to pick a player pick him, or was Coleman actually not that fussed cos Shawcross isnt that good a player?


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## stokie_93 (Jul 20, 2016)

fundy said:



			Sounds like Colemans lack of balls to me, if hes manager and wants to pick a player pick him, or was Coleman actually not that fussed cos Shawcross isnt that good a player?
		
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or maybe he's fussed because other than Bale - Ramsey is the outstanding player they have in the team and he didn't want to upset him and unsettle him?

he's a better player than 2 of the CB's they took to the Euros so that argument is dead in the water.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 20, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36844570.

Wow I think we shall be seeing quite a few five a side finishes. :lol:

Still OK to shove folk around at free kicks and diving though.
		
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Good to see but I will be more impressed if the refs follow it through 

As for the other bits being talked about 

Pogba - beast of a player , been brilliant in Serie A for a couple seasons now , a mix of Toure and Veira , would need to be a box to box type player, he can change games but not sure if he can carry a team - whilst I think he is a top player Â£100mil is a lot of money 

Shawcross - a solid defender who is decent on the ball , believe he should have been given a decent run with England but think in the past season he has struggled against strikers with clever quick movement - someone like Greizman would have him in knots but would do well against someone like Giroud and Costa the more physical battle


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## Piece (Jul 20, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I've heard scary amounts going to the player and agent. How much will the club actually get?We are probably best not knowing.
		
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Sky Sports were saying the agent could get 30%? Got quite a few big name players on his books too....


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## stokie_93 (Jul 20, 2016)

Piece said:



			Sky Sports were saying the agent could get 30%? Got quite a few big name players on his books too....
		
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how do you become a football agent


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## Hosel Fade (Jul 20, 2016)

Hull only have 13 fit senior outfield players on top of the FA sniffing round Jabba the pasty crusher


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## Hobbit (Jul 20, 2016)

C'mon the Imps. 20 mins gone, and still 0-0.

i jinxed it.


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## One Planer (Jul 20, 2016)

My day is just getting better and better.

First fat Sam looks like becoming the next England manager and now Liverpool have accept a Â£13M bid, from Stoke, for Joe Allan.



Shoot me now.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 20, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36844570.

Wow I think we shall be seeing quite a few five a side finishes. :lol:

Still OK to shove folk around at free kicks and diving though.
		
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Unlikely as the ref is obliged to stop the game if one side gets down to less than seven players.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 20, 2016)

One Planer said:



			My day is just getting better and better.

First fat Sam looks like becoming the next England manager and now Liverpool have accept a Â£13M bid, from Stoke, for Joe Allan.



Shoot me now.
		
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Joe Allen has showed in the Euro's that he is a very good player - he was a big part of Wales getting as far as they did, actually thought that he did enough for Klopp to keep him - in modern day prices getting him for Â£13mil is a bargain and would be straight into your first team - that's a very good buy


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## Slime (Jul 20, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			is it only me who doesn't see the huge hype around him?

He's a good player no denying that *but he didn't exactly set the euros alight?*
although I think he's played in a more advanced role for Juve and not seen much of him there...
		
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Based on that, Kane and Hart are Championship players ar best!
I would argue that NO player is worth Â£100M, but, if Joe Allen is worth Â£13M .......................


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 21, 2016)

Slime said:



			Based on that, Kane and Hart are Championship players ar best!
I would argue that NO player is worth Â£100M, but, if Joe Allen is worth Â£13M .......................
		
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The Â£100m price is all relative to income, saw an infographic last night and Pogba at that price in terms of income to % spend would be a cheaper % spend than JS Veron and Rio were.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 21, 2016)

One Planer said:



			My day is just getting better and better.

First fat Sam looks like becoming the next England manager and now Liverpool have accept a Â£13M bid, from Stoke, for Joe Allan.



Shoot me now.
		
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I'm surprised Brenda didn't try to re sign his love child.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 21, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36844570.

Wow I think we shall be seeing quite a few five a side finishes. :lol:

Still OK to shove folk around at free kicks and diving though.
		
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Needed looking at so a positive move forward. I'd love the PL to take a lead on the holding at corners but not sure how much they can really do over above UEFA directives. That said, holding and pushing are both free kick offences so does it simply need the refs to actually give decisions on what they are seeing rather than it being six of one all the time


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## stokie_93 (Jul 21, 2016)

Slime said:



			Based on that, Kane and Hart are Championship players ar best!
I would argue that NO player is worth Â£100M, but, if Joe Allen is worth Â£13M .......................
		
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I understand that one bad tournament doesn't make you a bad player. 

Joe Allen for Â£13 million is a good deal compared to some flying around!


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## richy (Jul 21, 2016)

Bid accepted of 25mil from Liverpool for Wijnaldum. 

What do the Liverpool fans think of that?


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

richy said:



			Bid accepted of 25mil from Liverpool for Wijnaldum. 

What do the Liverpool fans think of that?
		
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I dont understand it. I'm not sure where his best position is for starters. 

What do you think?


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## richy (Jul 21, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I dont understand it. I'm not sure where his best position is for starters. 

What do you think?
		
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Probably the number 10 role but he played across the whole midfield over the season for us. 

I'm over the moon with 25mil. When the going got tough he disappeared for us. He's a decent player when everything is going his way.


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## One Planer (Jul 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Joe Allen has showed in the Euro's that he is a very good player - he was a big part of Wales getting as far as they did, actually thought that he did enough for Klopp to keep him - in modern day prices getting him for Â£13mil is a bargain and would be straight into your first team - that's a very good buy
		
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But he's showed very little for the majority of his time at Liverpool, barely making the starting 11.

I appreciate he had a good Euro, but playing well for a few weeks in an international tournament doesn't change my opinion of him.

I also appreciate that Â£13M is not a huge sum of money by modern player fees but I would rather it was spent on better quality.  We only spent Â£18M on Imbula and much less on Bojan and several others who are, in my opinion , a better class of player.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

richy said:



			Probably the number 10 role but he played across the whole midfield over the season for us. 

I'm over the moon with 25mil. When the going got tough he disappeared for us. He's a decent player when everything is going his way.
		
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Great just what we need.


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## One Planer (Jul 21, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			I'm surprised Brenda didn't try to re sign his love child.
		
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I'm hoping he comes in with a last minute bid


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

One Planer said:



			But he's showed very little for the majority of his time at Liverpool, barely making the starting 11.

I appreciate he had a good Euro, but playing well for a few weeks in an international tournament doesn't change my opinion of him.

I also appreciate that Â£13M is not a huge sum of money by modern player fees but I would rather it was spent on better quality.  We only spent Â£18M on Imbula and much less on Bojan and several others who are, in my opinion , a better class of player.
		
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When he came he started well then had an injury and never seemed to recover. Then Rodgers was playing pick the 11 bingo and just throwing people here, there and everywhere hoping they'd gel. 

I'd say he's replacing Adam and I think he's a much better player than Adam.


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## One Planer (Jul 21, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			When he came he started well then had an injury and never seemed to recover. Then Rodgers was playing pick the 11 bingo and just throwing people here, there and everywhere hoping they'd gel. 

I'd say he's replacing Adam and I think he's a much better player than Adam.
		
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Like for like I'd probably agree but I don't rate Adam either :rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 21, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Great just what we need. 

Click to expand...

Surprised you didn't go in for GÃ¶tze.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 21, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I dont understand it. I'm not sure where his best position is for starters. 

What do you think?
		
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My son has a season ticket at Newcastle and his reaction was "dad, offer to drive him down". Maybe he will turn out to be a decent player in a good team but he was non existent for large parts of last year. Away games in particular he didn't show up. It will be interesting to see how he goes at Liverpool. I'm not sure who he is going to replace though as the attacking midfielder slot is pretty rammed at Anfield.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Surprised you didn't go in for GÃ¶tze.
		
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I'm not.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Like for like I'd probably agree but I don't rate Adam either :rofl:
		
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Neither do I but at least you get my drift.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			My son has a season ticket at Newcastle and his reaction was "dad, offer to drive him down". Maybe he will turn out to be a decent player in a good team but he was non existent for large parts of last year. Away games in particular he didn't show up. It will be interesting to see how he goes at Liverpool.* I'm not sure who he is going to replace though as the attacking midfielder slot is pretty rammed at Anfield*.
		
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Neither am I, though I do have a theory.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 21, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm not.
		
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May I ask why?


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## Slime (Jul 21, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Neither am I, though *I do have a theory*.
		
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................. and may I ask what?


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## Fish (Jul 21, 2016)

richy said:



			Bid accepted of 25mil from Liverpool for Wijnaldum. 

What do the Liverpool fans think of that?
		
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He's 18 points on the Scrabble board, maybe more on a double letter or word :smirk:


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			May I ask why?
		
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Wages.

The owners have proved they'll spend decent money on players but they won't pay the top wages. It's all pointing to a sale.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

Fish said:



			He's 18 points on the Scrabble board, maybe more on a double letter or word :smirk:
		
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Somebody must've told you, I'm not having you've played scrabble :ears:


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

Slime said:



			................. and may I ask what?
		
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What?


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## Fish (Jul 21, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			What?
		
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He invented the steam engine&#128540;


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## Tarkus1212 (Jul 21, 2016)

Fish said:



			He's 18 points on the Scrabble board, maybe more on a double letter or word :smirk:
		
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Actually its 22 if Wijnaldum is the correct spelling (sorry but I am a pedant)


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## Fish (Jul 21, 2016)

Tarkus1212 said:



			Actually its 22 if Wijnaldum is the correct spelling (sorry but I am a pedant) 

Click to expand...

Your right, I was rushing between pints and had the J as a 4 not a 8 &#128563;


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

Fish said:



			Your right, I was rushing between pints and had the J as a 4 not a 8 &#128563;
		
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Somebody has stole fish's login......


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 21, 2016)

One Planer said:



			But he's showed very little for the majority of his time at Liverpool, barely making the starting 11.

I appreciate he had a good Euro, but playing well for a few weeks in an international tournament doesn't change my opinion of him.

I also appreciate that Â£13M is not a huge sum of money by modern player fees but I would rather it was spent on better quality.  We only spent Â£18M on Imbula and much less on Bojan and several others who are, in my opinion , a better class of player.
		
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Joe Allen showed last year a lot of times how decent a player he can be - he came on a number of times and changed the game for us and I think he should have started more games , he is a very good passer of the ball and does keep possession well - but suffered a bit with injuries and nonsense that Rodgers was spouting about him. I would prefer to see him stay because think Henderson will keep having issues with his toe but seems he is going with the youngsters which is why I think Allen is being allowed to go. 

For 13mil you are getting an expirenced prem international midfielder who will go straight into your first 11 who would work well alongside Imbula and feeding the likes of Bojan


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## Papas1982 (Jul 21, 2016)

According to lfc's very own comparison app, he got one assist from his 19 games in the league. With two goals. His ability to pass backwards and side ways may be helpful for teams looking to retain the ball and play possession football. 

But Stoke to my mind don't do that, they're not the long ball teams they once were, but are still direct. I think 13m isn't a bad price in this league. But hes not the right type for Stoke.


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## Fish (Jul 21, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Somebody has stole fish's login......
		
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&#128514; Can I have a "P" Bob &#128563;


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 21, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Wages.

The owners have proved they'll spend decent money on players but they won't pay the top wages. It's all pointing to a sale.
		
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Surely with the new TV money you can compete with the likes of Dortmund when it comes to wages. 
Upto now Klopp is signing the same calibre of player as Brenda was signing.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Joe Allen showed last year a lot of times how decent a player he can be - he came on a number of times and changed the game for us and I think he should have started more games , he is a very good passer of the ball and does keep possession well - but suffered a bit with injuries and nonsense that Rodgers was spouting about him. I would prefer to see him stay because think Henderson will keep having issues with his toe but seems he is going with the youngsters which is why I think Allen is being allowed to go. 

For 13mil you are getting an expirenced prem international midfielder who will go straight into your first 11 who would work well alongside Imbula and feeding the likes of Bojan
		
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How many of the games shown on sky/Bt did he come on & change?&#129300;

Just Bantz from 1 armchair fan to another Phil &#128077;&#127995;


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Surely with the new TV money you can compete with the likes of Dortmund when it comes to wages. 
Upto now Klopp is signing the same calibre of player as Brenda was signing.
		
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I think they can, but it goes against their business model. The wage bill is significantly lower than It was when they've  bought us. The club is now worth around Â£1bn on recent figures, they've  "invested" around Â£400m of their own money. If they sold up tomorrow they'd nett over Â£500m profit. 

A high wage bill on a P&L sheet doesn't look good to potential buyers.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 21, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I think they can, but it goes against their business model. The wage bill is significantly lower than It was when they've  bought us. The club is now worth around Â£1bn on recent figures, they've  "invested" around Â£400m of their own money. If they sold up tomorrow they'd nett over Â£500m profit. 

A high wage bill on a P&L sheet doesn't look good to potential buyers.
		
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Â£1bn or $1bn? 
Surely every Prem clubs value as rocketed due to the tv money?


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Â£1bn or $1bn? 
Surely every Prem clubs value as rocketed due to the tv money?
		
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Â£1bn. 

It's not just TV money. They've increased the sponsorship massively. 

Â£20m plus just for going to USA pre season. All of this increased revenue yet we're still paying average wages.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 21, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Â£1bn. 

It's not just TV money. They've increased the sponsorship massively. 

Â£20m plus just for going to USA pre season. All of this increased revenue yet we're still paying average wages.
		
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Tidy bit of buisness.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 21, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Â£1bn. 

It's not just TV money. They've increased the sponsorship massively. 

Â£20m plus just for going to USA pre season. All of this increased revenue yet we're still paying average wages.
		
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Don't we have the 5th biggest wage bill in the prem not including the new signings this year ? And we still don't turn over a profit yet so whilst the club maybe "worth" more doesn't mean we can spend more than we earn.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Don't we have the 5th biggest wage bill in the prem not including the new signings this year ? And we still don't turn over a profit yet so whilst the club maybe "worth" more doesn't mean we can spend more than we earn.
		
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That maybe so, but when you've got x amount of players on 60-90k a week on loan whose wages you're subsidising its criminal.

We've been here before. The top players want top wages. The lesser players will accept Â£90k a week. That's were we are at right now. 

I sense a sale sooner rather than later and Coutinho will be next out the door for a Â£40m profit.

Get rid of the expensive deadwood and start paying the top players the top money. Otherwise we'll stand still watching everybody else.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 21, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			That maybe so, but when you've got x amount of players on 60-90k a week on loan whose wages you're subsidising its criminal.

We've been here before. The top players want top wages. The lesser players will accept Â£90k a week. That's were we are at right now. 

I sense a sale sooner rather than later and Coutinho will be next out the door for a Â£40m profit.
		
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That's why those players aren't being sent on loan - instead the manager is trying to get them sold and off the books to allow other players to arrive 

It's been confirmed that every player that has arrived is because of Klopp - it's who he wants regardless of cost or wages , his time at Dortmund wasn't full of big money big wage players top players - he went for who he wants and can work with and can play the way he wants. I'm just happy we have allowed the manager to go for who he wants as opposed to a committee. It's Klopps first chance to recruit and with the youngsters he is bringing in as well instead of sending on loan there is certainly a lot more to be optimistic about right now instead of being suspicious. We are a long way away from being able to attract the "top" players - think it's time we trusted our manager


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 21, 2016)

richy said:



			Probably the number 10 role but he played across the whole midfield over the season for us. 

I'm over the moon with 25mil. When the going got tough he disappeared for us. He's a decent player when everything is going his way.
		
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Think thats a microcosm of what I've read so far.

Great at home when things are going well, disappears when away etc.

Overall, I have liked him when I have seen him. Pacy, skilful, scores goals and a good engine......at least in the highlights. He is used to the PL and know more about him than Zielinski etc., so I'm quite happy.

You can add 30% on top of normal prices for last season with the extra tv money. Possibly can be a poor man's pogba, for 1/4 of the price.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 21, 2016)

Fish said:



			&#62978; Can I have a "P" Bob &#63027;
		
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At your age, you already have too many.:whoo:


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That's why those players aren't being sent on loan - instead the manager is trying to get them sold and off the books to allow other players to arrive 

It's been confirmed that every player that has arrived is because of Klopp - it's who he wants regardless of cost or wages , his time at Dortmund wasn't full of big money big wage players top players - he went for who he wants and can work with and can play the way he wants. I'm just happy we have allowed the manager to go for who he wants as opposed to a committee. It's Klopps first chance to recruit and with the youngsters he is bringing in as well instead of sending on loan there is certainly a lot more to be optimistic about right now instead of being suspicious. We are a long way away from being able to attract the "top" players - think it's time we trusted our manager
		
Click to expand...

If klopp wants every player that comes through the door this season then I'll be happy the manager is getting what he wants as opposed to being forced a Balotelli.

The question was why didn't we go for Gotze, my opinion is we don't offer the wages the other top clubs do. Could we afford it? Yes I think we could.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Think thats a microcosm of what I've read so far.

*Great at home when things are going well, disappears when away etc.
*
Overall, I have liked him when I have seen him. Pacy, skilful, scores goals and a good engine......at least in the highlights. He is used to the PL and know more about him than Zielinski etc., so I'm quite happy.

You can add 30% on top of normal prices for last season with the extra tv money. Possibly can be a poor man's pogba, for 1/4 of the price.
		
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We don't need anymore passengers, we've got enough already.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 21, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			We don't need anymore passengers, we've got enough already.
		
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Would you rather have Wijnaldum, or Zielinski?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That's why those players aren't being sent on loan - instead the manager is trying to get them sold and off the books to allow other players to arrive 

It's been confirmed that every player that has arrived is because of Klopp - it's who he wants regardless of cost or wages , his time at Dortmund wasn't full of big money big wage players top players - he went for who he wants and can work with and can play the way he wants. I'm just happy we have allowed the manager to go for who he wants as opposed to a committee. It's Klopps first chance to recruit and with the youngsters he is bringing in as well instead of sending on loan there is certainly a lot more to be optimistic about right now instead of being suspicious. We are a long way away from being able to attract the "top" players - think it's time we trusted our manager
		
Click to expand...

He had no choice at Dortmund initially, they were on the verge of going bust, Yes, he brought them success, but his policy after that didn't sustain them and they fell away.
Liverpool aren't in that situation, previous managers have been given money, it seems to me Stu is correct, and he should be trying to bring in at least 1 or 2 big names, otherwise it looks like a rebuilding job,
Great if he's given 3-4 years, but will the fans be happy with 1 or 2 mediocre seasons.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 22, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Would you rather have Wijnaldum, or Zielinski?
		
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Neither.

We need proper quality now. We've enough good players, that team needs quality in and around Coutinho if he doesn't get sold.

Benteke is a gonner, Balotelli as well. 

We've got sturridge who can't be relied on all season, an inexperienced Origi and Danny ings. We need a goalscorer.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			He had no choice at Dortmund initially, they were on the verge of going bust, Yes, he brought them success, but his policy after that didn't sustain them and they fell away.
Liverpool aren't in that situation, previous managers have been given money, it seems to me Stu is correct, and he should be trying to bring in at least 1 or 2 big names, otherwise it looks like a rebuilding job,
Great if he's given 3-4 years, but will the fans be happy with 1 or 2 mediocre seasons.
		
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It is a rebuilding job to some degree. 

Klopp needs time, unless you're buying the top players he can't be expected to work miracles with good players.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 22, 2016)

Probably just paper talk but Cavani linked with Chelsea.


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## Fish (Jul 22, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Probably just paper talk but Cavani linked with Chelsea.
		
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Chelsea have tabled an initial 41.5m bid but PSG want 66m, plus he's now the No1 front man with Ibrahimovic now gone, so he would take some prising away I think, unless Conte has that pulling power as a manager/coach?


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 22, 2016)

Fish said:



			Chelsea have tabled an initial 41.5m bid but PSG want 66m, plus he's now the No1 front man with Ibrahimovic now gone, so he would take some prising away I think, unless Conte has that pulling power as a manager/coach?
		
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Can't see it happening tbh.
Still need another striker & get rid of Remy.


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## Fish (Jul 22, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Can't see it happening tbh.
Still need *another* striker & get rid of Remy.
		
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Are you assuming Costa is staying?


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 22, 2016)

Fish said:



			Are you assuming Costa is staying?
		
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Yes &#128077;&#127995;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 22, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			It is a rebuilding job to some degree. 

Klopp needs time, unless you're buying the top players he can't be expected to work miracles with good players.
		
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Exactly, that's why I agreed with your point about the "bigger" signings, all new managers need time, some seem to get less than others though!


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## Stuart_C (Jul 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Exactly, that's why I agreed with your point about the "bigger" signings, all new managers need time, some seem to get less than others though!
		
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I said last year that he needs 3 seasons at least and  I'm confident he'll get it right, I think most sensible supporters would agree.


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## pokerjoke (Jul 22, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I said last year that he needs 3 seasons at least and  I'm confident he'll get it right, I think most sensible supporters would agree.
		
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Where do you think you will finish this year Stu?


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## stokie_93 (Jul 22, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			According to lfc's very own comparison app, he got one assist from his 19 games in the league. With two goals. His ability to pass backwards and side ways may be helpful for teams looking to retain the ball and play possession football. 

But Stoke to my mind don't do that, they're not the long ball teams they once were, but are still direct. I think 13m isn't a bad price in this league. But hes not the right type for Stoke.
		
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you definitely didn't watch us last year.

We're fantastic at having possession for the sake of it


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 22, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I said last year that he needs 3 seasons at least and  I'm confident he'll get it right, I think most sensible supporters would agree.
		
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Good luck finding the sensible ones, I haven't met one in over 50 years :rofl:
#sne #thisyearisouryear :rofl:


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 22, 2016)

Fish said:



			Chelsea have tabled an initial 41.5m bid but PSG want 66m, plus he's now the No1 front man with Ibrahimovic now gone, so he would take some prising away I think, unless Conte has that pulling power as a manager/coach?
		
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Wouldn't The 67m Madrid want for Morata would be a better deal? If you have bid 62 as alleged not far away from the asking price?


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 22, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I said last year that he needs 3 seasons at least and  I'm confident he'll get it right, I think most sensible supporters would agree.
		
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3 years the managers of today don't get that!


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## Stuart_C (Jul 22, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Where do you think you will finish this year Stu?
		
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1st.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 22, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			3 years the managers of today don't get that!
		
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That's the downside to modern football fans


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 22, 2016)

:rofl:


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## Slime (Jul 22, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			My son has a season ticket at Newcastle and his reaction was "dad, offer to drive him down". Maybe he will turn out to be a decent player in a good team but he was non existent for large parts of last year. Away games in particular he didn't show up. It will be interesting to see how he goes at Liverpool. *I'm not sure who he is going to replace though as the attacking midfielder slot is pretty rammed at Anfield.*

Click to expand...




Stuart_C said:



			Neither am I, though *I do have a theory.*

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Slime said:



			................. and *may I ask what?*

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Stuart_C said:



*What?*

Click to expand...


Your theory.


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## stokie_93 (Jul 22, 2016)

Slime said:



			Your theory.
		
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Think he said before Slime that he reckons Coutinho will go.

Personally think he will go if no Champions League after this season.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 22, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Think he said before Slime that he reckons Coutinho will go.

Personally think he will go if no Champions League after this season.
		
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I can't see Coutinho leaving just yet. 
He needs to turn up a bit more often to get into one of Europes top teams imo.


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 22, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			That's the downside to modern football fans
		
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I also blame the media too.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 22, 2016)

I thought he reckons they are getting set up for a sale. They are trying to keep the wage bill low and so are buying middle ranking players instead of top notch ones. I'm sure Stu will will come on later to confirm.


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 22, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			1st.
		
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see post #480


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 22, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Think he said before Slime that he reckons Coutinho will go.

Personally think he will go if no Champions League after this season.
		
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Barca are alleged to be keeping an on Courtinho


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 22, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			1st.
		
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Don't panic Mr. Manninger (sic).


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## Slime (Jul 22, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Think he said before Slime that he reckons Coutinho will go.

Personally think he will go if no Champions League after this season.
		
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I must have missed that.
Thanks stokie_93.


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## stokie_93 (Jul 22, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			I can't see Coutinho leaving just yet. 
He needs to turn up a bit more often to get into one of Europes top teams imo.
		
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does he need to turn up or have better players around him?


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 22, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			does he need to turn up or have better players around him?
		
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Good point&#128077;&#127995;


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## stokie_93 (Jul 22, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Good point&#62541;&#62459;
		
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he's not really had a striker all of last season to feed with Sturridge being a crock and Benteke being, well Benteke...

as an outsider though I do like the look of Origi and think he's promising and I like Ings, but he's just not a class that Liverpool should be striving for...


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## Hosel Fade (Jul 22, 2016)

Quite a few amusing bits on here, even if it is unlikely to be real


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 22, 2016)

http://www.90min.com/posts/3497378-...s-young-man-city-fan-in-top-video?a_aid=40681

This is so cool.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 22, 2016)

Steve Bruce has quit Hull, locals thought Moyes was coming to SLand, but maybe it'll be Bruce now?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 22, 2016)

They sacked him once before,why go back to him? Moyes will do a good job there if they give him a few quid to buy some decent players.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Steve Bruce has quit Hull, locals thought Moyes was coming to SLand, but maybe it'll be Bruce now?
		
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Seriously?
You really think Bruce is going to Sunderland? &#129300;


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 22, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Seriously?
You really think Bruce is going to Sunderland? &#129300;
		
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He might not be going to Sunderland but I imagine he's going to another club soon. Why else would you quit Hull so suddenly?


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 22, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			He might not be going to Sunderland but I imagine he's going to another club soon. Why else would you quit Hull so suddenly?
		
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Because the owner is making a right pigs ear of selling the club. No signings and only 10 fit players at present.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 22, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Because the owner is making a right pigs ear of selling the club. No signings and only 10 fit players at present.
		
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Fair point. Didn't realise it had got that bad. Makes Leeds and Blackpool seem well run


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 22, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Fair point. Didn't realise it had got that bad. Makes Leeds and Blackpool seem well run
		
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Not really


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## Fish (Jul 23, 2016)

David Moyes is now the Sunderland manager, 4 year deal!


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 23, 2016)

Fish said:



			David Moyes is now the Sunderland manager, 4 year deal!
		
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Not a bad appointment that.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 23, 2016)

Marhez to Arsenal doing the rounds.


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## freddielong (Jul 23, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Marhez to Arsenal doing the rounds.
		
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We have been linked with everyone else so why not, would be good if true but who knows.

Supposedly started due to his agent being at the Arsenal Lens game last night, he may also represent one of the Lens players though.


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## sawtooth (Jul 23, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Arsenal linked to quite a few attacking players this Summer, still no signatures yet though. :-(

Draxler
Lacazette
Mahrez
Morata
Higuain
Icardi

Come on Wenger season starts soon!
		
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Could be that Mahrez is the most likely to happen?


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 23, 2016)

freddielong said:



			We have been linked with everyone else so why not, would be good if true but who knows.

Supposedly started due to his agent being at the Arsenal Lens game last night, he may also represent one of the Lens players though.
		
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Looks like Higuain is off to Juventus.


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## freddielong (Jul 23, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Looks like Higuain is off to Juventus.
		
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He is to old for Arsenal to pay the numbers talked about there is no way Arsene would pay that much for a 29 year old.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 23, 2016)

freddielong said:



			He is to old for Arsenal to pay the numbers talked about there is no way Arsene would pay that much for a 29 year old.
		
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If the figures I've seen on Twitter are true,it's obvious why Arsenal haven't gone in for him. 
Crazy money for a player of his age.


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## sawtooth (Jul 23, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			If the figures I've seen on Twitter are true,it's obvious why Arsenal haven't gone in for him. 
Crazy money for a player of his age.
		
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Yep that was never gonna happen with Wenger and who can blame him. Higuain is good but at 28/29 you can really only expect 1-2 really good years and he may need time to adjust as well and that's if he does adjust. Some players are just not cut out for the PL.


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## pokerjoke (Jul 23, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yep that was never gonna happen with Wenger and who can blame him. Higuain is good but at 28/29 you can really only expect 1-2 really good years and he may need time to adjust as well and that's if he does adjust. Some players are just not cut out for the PL.
		
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So on that basis don't bother buying anyone because they might not adapt.

Also 1 or 2 years left at 28/29 imo that's rubbish players look after themselves much better these days.

I read somewhere Arsene is going to spend big trouble is hes happy just qualifying for C/L and never looking like winning the P/L or the C/L and it looks like some fans are happy with that too,what happened to ambition.

At this rate Arsenal will be battling with Liverpool for 7th to 12th


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 23, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			So on that basis don't bother buying anyone because they might not adapt.

Also 1 or 2 years left at 28/29 imo that's rubbish players look after themselves much better these days.

I read somewhere Arsene is going to spend big trouble is hes happy just qualifying for C/L and never looking like winning the P/L or the C/L and it looks like some fans are happy with that too,what happened to ambition.

At this rate Arsenal will be battling with Liverpool for 7th to 12th
		
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But â‚¬94m & â‚¬30m in wages over 4yrs (if true) is a hell of a lot of money. 
Don't you agree?


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## sawtooth (Jul 23, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			So on that basis don't bother buying anyone because they might not adapt.

Also 1 or 2 years left at 28/29 imo that's rubbish players look after themselves much better these days.

I read somewhere Arsene is going to spend big trouble is hes happy just qualifying for C/L and never looking like winning the P/L or the C/L and it looks like some fans are happy with that too,what happened to ambition.

At this rate Arsenal will be battling with Liverpool for 7th to 12th
		
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No what I mean is if you buy at say 23 then it really doesn't matter if it takes a year to settle because the best years are still ahead. At 29 it's different, can't really  afford to wait a season to settle. Yes players are playing a little longer these days and keep themselves in top shape but they will still lose their pace. 

Why 7th to 12th when for the past 18 seasons we've managed to  finish top 4? 

Whatever Wenger does he still achieves that milestone which is tremendous!


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 23, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yep that was never gonna happen with Wenger and who can blame him. Higuain is good but at 28/29 you can really only expect 1-2 really good years and he may need time to adjust as well and that's if he does adjust. Some players are just not cut out for the PL.
		
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Didnt you sell van persie to Man U when over this age, and he helped them win the league.

Granted, he was proven in the prem, which Higuain isnt, but dont buy the age factor at 28.


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## pokerjoke (Jul 23, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			But â‚¬94m & â‚¬30m in wages over 4yrs (if true) is a hell of a lot of money. 
Don't you agree?
		
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It is a lot of money however that's the going rate for a good player.

To be honest there is so much money in football at the moment and billionaires use clubs as play things and as long as that continues if you don't pay top dollar you will get left behind.

Man Utd have done well to attract big names even though we are not in the C/L because we will still spend the big money wether on a manager or players.

Look at Liverpool and what they are attracting without C/L and they will continue to fall.

Arsenal have money but are happy with qualification to the C/L every year but if they have ambition to win things they will have to spend big.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 23, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Didnt you sell van persie to Man U when over this age, and he helped them win the league.

Granted, he was proven in the prem, which Higuain isnt, but dont buy the age factor at 28.
		
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RVP didn't go for â‚¬94m.
If Higuain was available for the Â£30m mark all the top clubs would have been fighting over him.


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## pokerjoke (Jul 23, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			No what I mean is if you buy at say 23 then it really doesn't matter if it takes a year to settle because the best years are still ahead. At 29 it's different, can't really  afford to wait a season to settle. Yes players are playing a little longer these days and keep themselves in top shape but they will still lose their pace. 

Why 7th to 12th when for the past 18 seasons we've managed to  finish top 4? 

Whatever Wenger does he still achieves that milestone which is tremendous!
		
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7th to 12th was tongue in cheek banter.

Sean 4th is knowhere mate trophies are what counts for clubs and medals and trophies for players.

As I said there is too much money on football and maybe players and managers are looking at their bank balances instead of the trophy cabinet.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 23, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			It is a lot of money however that's the going rate for a good player.

To be honest there is so much money in football at the moment and billionaires use clubs as play things and as long as that continues if you don't pay top dollar you will get left behind.

Man Utd have done well to attract big names even though we are not in the C/L because we will still spend the big money wether on a manager or players.

Look at Liverpool and what they are attracting without C/L and they will continue to fall.

Arsenal have money but are happy with qualification to the C/L every year but if they have ambition to win things they will have to spend big.
		
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Yep I agree with all of that,I just think as good as he is its over priced (even by today's standards) for a player of his age. 
Morata would be a better buy imo.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 23, 2016)

Either way if Arsenal don't win the title this season (which I don't think they will) it really is time for Wenger to do the right thing and walk.


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## Slime (Jul 23, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Either way if Arsenal don't win the title this season (which I don't think they will) it really is time for Wenger to do the right thing and walk.
		
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Some have been saying that for the last three years ....................... and he's still there!


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 23, 2016)

Slime said:



			Some have been saying that for the last three years ....................... and he's still there!
		
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Yep,he's going no where.


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## sawtooth (Jul 23, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			7th to 12th was tongue in cheek banter.

Sean 4th is knowhere mate trophies are what counts for clubs and medals and trophies for players.

As I said there is too much money on football and maybe players and managers are looking at their bank balances instead of the trophy cabinet.
		
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It's not true trophies are not everything Tony. There are supporters from other clubs who have never seen their team win anything in their lifetime but they still love their club. They still watch and support their club no matter what. 

And there are no guarantees that a club will be in the top flight YoY or even in existence 50 yrs from now. I place stability and long term security over winning trophies. That means the prime goals for PL league teams are staying in the division, trying to get CL football and spending within your means in case things go pear shaped. If you can do all that then yes it would be great to win trophies on top.

Got to look at the big picture and blowing  78M Euros on a aging player hoping that he can get us the goals that might help win the PL is not a sensible and responsible thing to do. If it's not in the long term best interest of the club then don't do it. Seems right to me.

With that said I would like Wenger to buy a good player or two before the window closes. 

And whether it's a Mahrez-like prospect for Â£4M that Wenger has managed to find or the real Mahrez at Â£40M I dont really mind. Nobody heard of Ljungberg when he came to Arsenal and he turned out to be a dream of a player.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 23, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			It's not true trophies are not everything Tony. There are supporters from other clubs who have never seen their team win anything in their lifetime but they still love their club. They still watch and support their club no matter what. 

And there are no guarantees that a club will be in the top flight YoY or even in existence 50 yrs from now. I place stability and long term security over winning trophies. That means the prime goals for PL league teams are staying in the division, trying to get CL football and spending within your means in case things go pear shaped. If you can do all that then yes it would be great to win trophies on top.
		
Click to expand...

Ask the real fans, the ones who actually go to matches rather than watching on TV, and I think you would get a different answer.

Would they rather win a trophy or just stay in the PL never winning anything? 

I think it would  be the former.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 23, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			It's not true trophies are not everything Tony. There are supporters from other clubs who have never seen their team win anything in their lifetime but they still love their club. They still watch and support their club no matter what. 

And there are no guarantees that a club will be in the top flight YoY or even in existence 50 yrs from now. I place stability and long term security over winning trophies. That means the prime goals for PL league teams are staying in the division, trying to get CL football and spending within your means in case things go pear shaped. If you can do all that then yes it would be great to win trophies on top.

Got to look at the big picture and blowing  78M Euros on a aging player hoping that he can get us the goals that might help win the PL is not a sensible and responsible thing to do. If it's not in the long term best interest of the club then don't do it. Seems right to me.

With that said I would like Wenger to buy a good player or two before the window closes. 

And whether it's a Mahrez-like prospect for Â£4M that Wenger has managed to find or the real Mahrez at Â£40M I dont really mind. Nobody heard of Ljungberg when he came to Arsenal and he turned out to be a dream of a player.
		
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Not sure how true it is but apparently Ljunberg was close to a move to Barnsley before he had a good euros and Arsenal spotted him. 
Quality player.


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## Slime (Jul 23, 2016)

Trophy cabinets are for trophies ..................... for the fans to brag about.
Fans don't want to see a trophy cabinet full of balance sheets with black figures!


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## Papas1982 (Jul 23, 2016)

All fans dream of trophies.

This idea that (mainly arsenal fans float) people would be happy finishing 4th is a myth. Most clubs would love to reach the CL. But once there they wouldn't be chuffed of that was all they got for10years! Eventually people want their clubs to progress. 

Arsenal wont under wenger. If they couldn't winit last year then they never will. All credit to Leicester, but miraculous team spirit or not. Arsenal blew that last year big time. 

Im a saints fan and I'd love a cup run. I'd rather win the cup and finish 12th. Than finish 4th as I know that we don't have the finances the compete and stay there. 

Me me and my friends reminisce about our runs to quarters and semis, even the zenith cup gets a mention. None of us care too much about getting new record points totals the last few seasons.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 23, 2016)

Higuain is expensive because he scores goals and a lot of them - he scores the amount of goals that would give a team a step up in results - he may cost Â£70mil but that is an outlay that would turn Arsenal from also rans in the CL and just top 4 to seriously challenge for the Title - he is the type of player that would earn that fee back in 2 years - at 28/29 he is getting close to peak and got a good 5 years left in him.

But Arsenal won't pay that money and they will have the same season as the last decade and will celebrate beating Spurs again no doubt

Football for all clubs should be about winning things - success , watching them lift a trophy - Arsenal fans have turned getting into the top 4 as a trophy win


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 23, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Higuain is expensive because he scores goals and a lot of them - he scores the amount of goals that would give a team a step up in results - he may cost Â£70mil but that is an outlay that would turn Arsenal from also rans in the CL and just top 4 to seriously challenge for the Title - he is the type of player that would earn that fee back in 2 years - at 28/29 he is getting close to peak and got a good 5 years left in him.

But Arsenal won't pay that money and they will have the same season as the last decade and will celebrate beating Spurs again no doubt

Football for all clubs should be about winning things - success , watching them lift a trophy - Arsenal fans have turned getting into the top 4 as a trophy win
		
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So why have Liverpool recently signed 2 players with a combined age of 69 & a player from a team that was relegated? 

I'm sure you can put a good spin on it tho Phil ðŸ‘ðŸ»


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## sawtooth (Jul 23, 2016)

Slime said:



			Trophy cabinets are for trophies ..................... for the fans to brag about.
Fans don't want to see a trophy cabinet full of balance sheets with black figures!
		
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Yeah Leeds were ambitious and dreamed of trophies and look what happened to them. Portsmouth too.

Maybe they wished they had healthy balance sheets in the cabinet and were in the top flight? Leeds no longer own their ground things got that bad. 

Not saying trophies are not important, there's things that are even more important. Like surviving and being able to pay bills. Unless you have sugar daddies you have to worry about those things too.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 23, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			So why have Liverpool recently signed 2 players with a combined age of 69 & a player from a team that was relegated? 

I'm sure you can put a good spin on it tho Phil &#62541;&#62459;
		
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The same reason wba won't sign a player like higauain. They couldn't make themselves appealing to him. Arsenal could, but have chosen not to. That's the difference.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 23, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah Leeds were ambitious and dreamed of trophies and look what happened to them. Portsmouth too.

Maybe they wished they had healthy balance sheets in the cabinet and were in the top flight? Leeds no longer own their ground things got that bad. 

Not saying trophies are not important, there's things that are even more important. Like surviving and being able to pay bills. Unless you have sugar daddies you have to worry about those things too.
		
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Arsenal not signing higauain isn't about you risking survival though is it. You could afford one superstar striker. Not signing him is down to Arsene, not the board (wenger helped employ)  being prudent.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 23, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			The same reason wba won't sign a player like higauain. They couldn't make themselves appealing to him. Arsenal could, but have chosen not to. That's the difference.
		
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Excuse me&#128561;&#128561; Liverpool fc are one of the biggest clubs in the universe & it's a honour to play in front of the Kopp.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 23, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Excuse me&#63025;&#63025; Liverpool fc are one of the biggest clubs in the universe & it's a honour to play in front of the Kopp.
		
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Sorry, my mistake. 

I thiught they were a well known team that wasn't willing to pay proper wages and aimed to finish in the Europa league....


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## sawtooth (Jul 23, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Arsenal not signing higauain isn't about you risking survival though is it. You could afford one superstar striker. Not signing him is down to Arsene, not the board (wenger helped employ)  being prudent.
		
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It will no doubt break the pay structure and then open the floodgates for other players to ask for improved contracts or threaten to leave.

And if it doesn't work out? You sell at a huge loss and you have to go again.

Also I don't think Wenger will want players at the club that he had to bring kicking and screaming. If Higuain really fancied Arsenal it might have happened who knows.


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## freddielong (Jul 23, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Excuse me&#128561;&#128561; Liverpool fc are one of the biggest clubs in the universe & it's a honour to play in front of the Kopp.
		
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Liverpool are only big when it suits them.

Chelsea have proved you can sign players without champions league football.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 23, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Sorry, my mistake. 

I thiught they were a well known team that wasn't willing to pay proper wages and aimed to finish in the Europa league....
		
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That's probably more like it tbh&#128077;&#127995;
It's ok slating other clubs signings,but when that club have recently signed Ozil & Sanchez,whilst your own team sign Milner,Lellana & Henderson & you big them up it just makes you look stupid & deluded.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 23, 2016)

Mahrez's value just gone up with that finish.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 23, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Mahrez's value just gone up with that finish.
		
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Wasn't too shabby was it.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 23, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			It will no doubt break the pay structure and then open the floodgates for other players to ask for improved contracts or threaten to leave.

And if it doesn't work out? You sell at a huge loss and you have to go again.

Also I don't think Wenger will want players at the club that he had to bring kicking and screaming. If Higuain really fancied Arsenal it might have happened who knows.
		
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higuain has a buyout of 79m. Arsenal need to pay that before you imply that it's higuain not wanting the move or wanting too much. 

Re wages, if arsenal want to win trophies and not just be a very profitable business then they need to look at the wages of most of their rivals both home and abroad. They'll soon realise it costs to win.


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## Fish (Jul 24, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			So why have Liverpool recently signed 2 players with a combined age of 69 & a player from a team that was relegated? 

I'm sure you can put a good spin on it tho Phil ï‘ï»
		
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and selling also, Â£6m for Brad Smith to Bournemouth, I always though left backs were a good commodity as there aren't a lot of decent one's out there, not sure if it was planned to sell him as they took him away to the states and has played in preseason games, the rest of the prem will be pleased though to carry on facing Moreno


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## freddielong (Jul 24, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			higuain has a buyout of 79m. Arsenal need to pay that before you imply that it's higuain not wanting the move or wanting too much. 

Re wages, if arsenal want to win trophies and not just be a very profitable business then they need to look at the wages of most of their rivals both home and abroad. They'll soon realise it costs to win.
		
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You have to do both you cannot pay wages you cannot afford in the possibility of future success.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 24, 2016)

I see the runaway winners of the EPL managed to squeeze past the SPL winners 6-5 on penalties after a 1-1 draw at Parkhead.


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## One Planer (Jul 24, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I see the runaway winners of the EPL managed to squeeze past the SPL winners 6-5 on penalties after a 1-1 draw at Parkhead in a pre-season nothing tournament.

Click to expand...

Fixed that for you chief :thup:


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## Papas1982 (Jul 24, 2016)

freddielong said:



			You have to do both you cannot pay wages you cannot afford in the possibility of future success.
		
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Arsenal can afford 200k a week. This reason you won't sign him is because wenger thinks you have enough. I think most believe in this he is wrong.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 24, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I see the runaway winners of the EPL managed to squeeze past the SPL winners 6-5 on penalties after a 1-1 draw at Parkhead.

Click to expand...

Was that the same SPL winners that lost to a team of part timers in Gibraltar recently or different SPL winners?


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## One Planer (Jul 25, 2016)

Only a 5 year deal. 

Lucky us


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## stokie_93 (Jul 26, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Only a 5 year deal. 

Lucky us 

Click to expand...

personally think it's a great signing for us mate. 
I think his energy and tenacity will mirror Imbula brilliantly.

I'm worried about Arnie now though, seems like he's on the verge of going.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 26, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			personally think it's a great signing for us mate. 
I think his energy and tenacity will mirror Imbula brilliantly.

I'm worried about Arnie now though, seems like he's on the verge of going.
		
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Ah, but that's maybe an informed opinion who watches a player and makes his own mind up, and doesn't just follow what the papers say. :thup:

Joe Allen hasn't been brilliant for us, but has always been steady. However, the "exotic" Joe Allen (of the beard and long hair)was quite an improved player last season, especially from the bench. I don't know why he wasn't given more starts as when he played in an advanced midfield role, mainly as sub, he changed lots of games in our favour.

Also depends on where Hughes wants to play him.

That Imbula looks some player though.


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## stokie_93 (Jul 26, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ah, but that's maybe an informed opinion who watches a player and makes his own mind up, and doesn't just follow what the papers say. :thup:

Joe Allen hasn't been brilliant for us, but has always been steady. However, the "exotic" Joe Allen (of the beard and long hair)was quite an improved player last season, especially from the bench. I don't know why he wasn't given more starts as when he played in an advanced midfield role, mainly as sub, he changed lots of games in our favour.

Also depends on where Hughes wants to play him.

That Imbula looks some player though.
		
Click to expand...

can't remember what game it was against us whether it was in the league or the cup semi finals but he was immense against us, never gave us any time to settle and play and was 'everywhere'. 

I think Hughes will try and put him in as a swap for Whelan but we shall see, not sure what plans he has for him.

Agree on the Imbula side of it though, just needs to adapt to the pace of play and I reckon he'll be different class for us.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 26, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			can't remember what game it was against us whether it was in the league or the cup semi finals but he was immense against us, never gave us any time to settle and play and was 'everywhere'. 

I think Hughes will try and put him in as a swap for Whelan but we shall see, not sure what plans he has for him.

Agree on the Imbula side of it though, just needs to adapt to the pace of play and I reckon he'll be different class for us.
		
Click to expand...

He's definitely an improvement on Whelan.


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## stokie_93 (Jul 26, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			He's definitely an improvement on Whelan.
		
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I love Whelan, think he's been a brilliant asset since signing for us.
He's disciplined, calm and reliable. Rarely puts a foot wrong and has a brilliant ability to mark players out the game but no doubt Allen is an improvement.

If Arnautovic signs a new contract however it'll be better than any player we sign in this transfer window.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 26, 2016)

So maybe the Prem league is going to introduce a winter break,so that'll be another world tour to promote their brand &#128580;


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## Hobbit (Jul 26, 2016)

Busiest club in the Prem for transfers is the mighty Boro. However, quantity and quality are two different things. Not sure how such an influx can be good for a club but, equally, I'm looking forward to seeing if it gels. The thing they've really lacked for two seasons is a goal scorer.

Nugent joined in January but spent a lot of time bench warming yet still accrued 8 goals. Rhodes didn't have the best of starts since arriving in Jan, and Stuani the top goal scorer could go missing for weeks at a time. Just hope Negredo adds that firepower we've been missing.

Mind you, its an easy opener in Stoke up at Middlesbrough.


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## stokie_93 (Jul 26, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Mind you, its an easy opener in Stoke up at Middlesbrough.

Click to expand...

if it's anything like how we started last season it will be mate


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## One Planer (Jul 26, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			He's definitely an improvement on Whelan.
		
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I beg to differ, but then I would.

Whelan is very underrated as a midfielder. Yes he doesn't grab the headlines, but he does a job.

I'd love to be proved wrong with the JA signing, but I cant see it.


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## stokie_93 (Jul 26, 2016)

One Planer said:



			I beg to differ, but then I would.

Whelan is very underrated as a midfielder. Yes he doesn't grab the headlines, but he does a job.

I'd love to be proved wrong with the JA signing, but I cant see it.
		
Click to expand...

at least we've still got Glen there if it doesn't click mate! 

What dya think of Arnie's situation?


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## fundy (Jul 26, 2016)

Higuain gone to Juve for Â£75m, decent enough player but thats a ridiculous fee imo, anyone would think Juve gonna have potfuls of money from someone coming in lol


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## One Planer (Jul 26, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			at least we've still got Glen there if it doesn't click mate! 

What dya think of Arnie's situation?
		
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He's wanted out for a while.

His attitude hasn't been great, but then it never was.

Quality player I would love to keep but if he wants out let him go.


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## Slime (Jul 26, 2016)

fundy said:



			Higuain gone to Juve for Â£75m, decent enough player but thats a ridiculous fee imo, anyone would think Juve gonna have potfuls of money from someone coming in lol
		
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That's a huge sum of money, however, that seems to be the way it is nowadays ....................... unless you can get one on a free .


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 26, 2016)

fundy said:



			Higuain gone to Juve for Â£75m, decent enough player but thats a ridiculous fee imo, anyone would think Juve gonna have potfuls of money from someone coming in lol
		
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I say stuff em if there not going to pay there share of agents fee walk away especially as they've spent the money already


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 26, 2016)

Seems a lot of cash but clearly they think he's worth it. 36 goals in Serie A must have something about him


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## Slime (Jul 26, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			I say stuff em if there not going to pay there share of agents fee walk away especially as they've spent the money already 

Click to expand...

Totally agree. 
Walk away before it gets totally out of hand.
The agent works for the player so let the player sort out agents' fees!


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 27, 2016)

Apparently Sakho's been a naughty boy AGAIN&#128580;


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 27, 2016)

Stokie, you may have got your wish. It sounds like Arnie is staying. Your boys are also pictured at Universal Studio's at the moment. They are paving the way for your visit


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## stokie_93 (Jul 27, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Stokie, you may have got your wish. It sounds like Arnie is staying. Your boys are also pictured at Universal Studio's at the moment. They are paving the way for your visit 

Click to expand...

Fingers crossed mate, won't believe until he's signed on the dotted lines!

I saw yesterday mate, they're playing Orlando tomorrow in a friendly, shame i'm not over there now!


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## Dan2501 (Jul 27, 2016)

Say what you want about Higuain's price tag, but the man is a goalscorer. 

Real Madrid: 107 goals in 190 games
Napoli: 71 goals in 104 games

Serious goal ratio and had a superb season last season. Not many guys featured in EA's Team of the Week on FIFA 16 more than Higuain. If you know anything about FIFA Ultimate Team - Higuain has 10 different cards this year, just insane. Ignoring the fees they're going for, if you asked me who I'd pay more money for - Higuain or Pogba, it'd be Higuain all day. He's awesome.


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## stokie_93 (Jul 27, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



			Say what you want about Higuain's price tag, but the man is a goalscorer. 

Real Madrid: 107 goals in 190 games
Napoli: 71 goals in 104 games

Serious goal ratio and had a superb season last season. Not many guys featured in EA's Team of the Week on FIFA 16 more than Higuain. If you know anything about FIFA Ultimate Team - Higuain has 10 different cards this year, just insane. Ignoring the fees they're going for, if you asked me who I'd pay more money for - Higuain or Pogba, it'd be Higuain all day. He's awesome.
		
Click to expand...


with you on this mate, the guy just scores goals.

I think he's a massively underrated player too, nothing fancy but a great all round player.

Juventus with him and Dybala up top will be lethal.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 27, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			with you on this mate, the guy just scores goals.

I think he's a massively underrated player too, nothing fancy but a great all round player.

Juventus with him and Dybala up top will be lethal.
		
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They now need to win the CL.


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## Dan2501 (Jul 27, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			with you on this mate, the guy just scores goals.

I think he's a massively underrated player too, nothing fancy but a great all round player.

Juventus with him and Dybala up top will be lethal.
		
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He's hugely under-rated. Juve had an awesome side last year, but this year they've added Dani Alves, Miralem Pjanic, Medhi Benatia and now Higuain. Be a shame for them if they lose Pogba, but when they've got Marchisio-Pjanic-Khedira I don't think it's a huge issue. Got to be one of the big favourites for the CL this year.

-------------------------Buffon--------------------
-----------Bonucci----Chiellini----Benatia--------
---Alves---------------Khedira-------Sandro------
-------------Marchisio-----------Pjanic------------
--------------Higuain------------Dybala------------

What a side that is, and they have the likes of Pereyra, Mandzukic, Lichtsteiner, Barzagli, Evra and Zaza on the bench. They're going to be a force.


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## stokie_93 (Jul 27, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



			He's hugely under-rated. Juve had an awesome side last year, but this year they've added Dani Alves, Miralem Pjanic, Medhi Benatia and now Higuain. Be a shame for them if they lose Pogba, but when they've got Marchisio-Pjanic-Khedira I don't think it's a huge issue. Got to be one of the big favourites for the CL this year.

-------------------------Buffon--------------------
-----------Bonucci----Chiellini----Benatia--------
---Alves---------------Khedira-------Sandro------
-------------Marchisio-----------Pjanic------------
--------------Higuain------------Dybala------------

What a side that is, and they have the likes of Pereyra, Mandzukic, Lichtsteiner, Barzagli, Evra and Zaza on the bench. They're going to be a force.
		
Click to expand...

very very good team.
Interesting that Madrid and Barca have not really made many moves as of yet, will have to see what happens!


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## Dan2501 (Jul 27, 2016)

Barca have done a bit of business. Signed Umtiti, Andre Gomes, Lucas Digne and Denis Suarez. Not big names but 4 very solid signings. But yeah, Madrid have done no business other than bringing Morata back, but looks like they're insta-selling him for a profit.


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## G.U.R (Jul 27, 2016)

Aren't Madrid under a transfer embargo for past indiscretions? I also thought Barca were as well?


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## Dan2501 (Jul 27, 2016)

Barca's embargo is up, been allowed to buy players from this summer.


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 27, 2016)

G.U.R said:



			Aren't Madrid under a transfer embargo for past indiscretions? I also thought Barca were as well?
		
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and madrids doesn't start until january


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 27, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



			He's hugely under-rated. Juve had an awesome side last year, but this year they've added Dani Alves, Miralem Pjanic, Medhi Benatia and now Higuain. Be a shame for them if they lose Pogba, but when they've got Marchisio-Pjanic-Khedira I don't think it's a huge issue. Got to be one of the big favourites for the CL this year.

-------------------------Buffon--------------------
-----------Bonucci----Chiellini----Benatia--------
---Alves---------------Khedira-------Sandro------
-------------Marchisio-----------Pjanic------------
--------------Higuain------------Dybala------------

What a side that is, and they have the likes of Pereyra, Mandzukic, Lichtsteiner, Barzagli, Evra and Zaza on the bench. They're going to be a force.
		
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adding in bribing a few officials and they'll be well away!


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 27, 2016)

John Stones could be on his way to City for Â£50m.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 29, 2016)

Our new keeper has broken his hand and will be out for up to 10 weeks, we'll have  got suffer Mingolet for the 1st 10 games of the new season :angry:


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 29, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Our new keeper has broken his hand and will be out for up to 10 weeks, we'll have  got suffer Mingolet for the 1st 10 games of the new season :angry:
		
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Is that whilst he collected his pension?


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## sawtooth (Jul 29, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



			Say what you want about Higuain's price tag, but the man is a goalscorer. 

Real Madrid: 107 goals in 190 games
Napoli: 71 goals in 104 games

Serious goal ratio and had a superb season last season. Not many guys featured in EA's Team of the Week on FIFA 16 more than Higuain. If you know anything about FIFA Ultimate Team - Higuain has 10 different cards this year, just insane. Ignoring the fees they're going for, if you asked me who I'd pay more money for - Higuain or Pogba, it'd be Higuain all day. He's awesome.
		
Click to expand...

I agree he certainly knows where the goal is and for the past 5 years he would have been well worthy of that 75Mil price tag. Just not sure about the next 5 years that's all.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 29, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I agree he certainly knows where the goal is and for the past 5 years he would have been well worthy of that 75Mil price tag. Just not sure about the next 5 years that's all.
		
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Serious question,where do you see Arsenal finishing without any more major signings? 
I'll say 2nd at the very best. 
And that's if other teams under perform like last season.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 29, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Is that whilst he collected his pension? 

Click to expand...

Eh?? You mean Manninger


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## sawtooth (Jul 29, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Serious question,where do you see Arsenal finishing without any more major signings? 
I'll say 2nd at the very best. 
And that's if other teams under perform like last season.
		
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Honestly think 2nd at worst.

Best team bar Leicester last season and I can't see them winning it again.

Lots of manager change with other teams at the top and its not guaranteed to make those teams better in the first season. Might take a while and there's a lot to be said for continuity. That's why I predict both North London clubs to be up there again scrapping it out at the top.


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## Slime (Jul 29, 2016)

sawtooth said:



*Honestly think 2nd at worst.*

Best team bar Leicester last season and I can't see them winning it again.

Lots of manager change with other teams at the top and its not guaranteed to make those teams better in the first season. Might take a while and there's a lot to be said for continuity. That's why I predict both North London clubs to be up there again scrapping it out at the top.
		
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Really?
2nd *at worst*!
With all the major clubs strengthening, whilst Arsenal haven't yet, I see Arsenal 4th *at best*.
What do other Arsenal supporters think ....................... honestly?


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## sawtooth (Jul 29, 2016)

Slime said:



			Really?
2nd *at worst*!
With all the major clubs strengthening, whilst Arsenal haven't yet, I see Arsenal 4th *at best*.
What do other Arsenal supporters think ....................... honestly?
		
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More than one way to strengthen a team Slime. It's not all about buying the worlds most expensive player you know.


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## Slime (Jul 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			More than one way to strengthen a team Slime. It's not all about buying the worlds most expensive player you know.
		
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I totally agree, but what have Arsenal done to strengthen?


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## Hobbit (Jul 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Honestly think 2nd at worst.

Best team bar Leicester last season and I can't see them winning it again.

Lots of manager change with other teams at the top and its not guaranteed to make those teams better in the first season. Might take a while and there's a lot to be said for continuity. That's why I predict both North London clubs to be up there again scrapping it out at the top.
		
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You were gifted second, in a poor season. Above you, The two Mancs plus a maturing Spurs at the very least. I wouldn't be surprised to see you slip to 6th.


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## Fish (Jul 30, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			You were gifted second, in a poor season. Above you, The two Mancs plus a maturing Spurs at the very least. *I wouldn't be surprised to see you slip to 6th*.
		
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Wouldn't that be nice.

Your right Bri, they were gifted 2nd due to an array of poor performances from teams that the owners simply won't allow to happen again! But the blinkers won't allow that to be seen or accepted, no more points or better stats than previous seasons so 4th at best for me but could slip lower due to other teams that have been pushing into that top 6 arena over a few years strengthening more than Arsenal.

Same old same old for me from the gurners with the exception of last season which wasn't their doing....


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Honestly think 2nd at worst.

Best team bar Leicester last season and I can't see them winning it again.

Lots of manager change with other teams at the top and its not guaranteed to make those teams better in the first season. Might take a while and there's a lot to be said for continuity. That's why I predict both North London clubs to be up there again scrapping it out at the top.
		
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Only time will tell,should be a cracking season &#128077;&#127995;


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 30, 2016)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....fer-fee-within-a-fortnight/amp/?client=safari


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## sawtooth (Jul 30, 2016)

Slime said:



			I totally agree, but what have Arsenal done to strengthen?
		
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You'll have to ask Wenger. I'm sure that he will want to change certain things from last season not so much in personnel but how we play, formation, strategy etc.

Another season with the same group of players cannot hurt either. Some young players breaking through, fit again Wilshere and Cazorla. Xhaka  looks a decent signing.....

Doesn't worry me, people on here writing off Arsenal before anyone has kicked a ball.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			You'll have to ask Wenger. I'm sure that he will want to change certain things from last season not so much in personnel but how we play, formation, strategy etc.

Another season with the same group of players cannot hurt either. Some young players breaking through, fit again Wilshere and Cazorla. Xhaka  looks a decent signing.....

Doesn't worry me, people on here writing off Arsenal before anyone has kicked a ball.
		
Click to expand...

If he wants to do that then why hasn't he before - it's another summer for Arsenal where teams around look to strengthen and move forward and Arsenal just leave the same old gaps in the team and because of that people expect the same old season as the previous 10 

Do you think there will ever be a time for you when you will say enough is enough and its time someone actually looked to move Arsenal forward - or are you happy with top 4 each year and that's it. Do you think with the club charging more for a season ticket than nearly anyone else in European football the fans should expect more ? Telly money gone through the roof this year and teams looking to spend big on players and Arsenal buy another "young potential" - would you like to see them spend the money required for someone like Higuain knowing that he adds a massive extra dimension that Arsenal are crying out for


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 30, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Telly money gone through the roof this year and teams looking to spend big on players and Arsenal buy another "young potential" -
		
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Yeah you've only got to look at the World class players that Klopps been splashing the cash on&#128563;&#128514;. 
But obviously you're happy and the future looks bright &#128580;

Crack on Hall of famer &#128077;&#127995;&#128077;&#127995;


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## Slime (Jul 30, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yeah you've only got to look at the World class players that Klopps been splashing the cash on&#63027;&#62978;. 
But obviously you're happy and the future looks bright &#63044;

Crack on Hall of famer &#62541;&#62459;&#62541;&#62459;
		
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To be fair to Phil, I think he's bang on with his Arsenal appraisal.
Most of their fans must be soooooooooooo confused and deflated.
Splash the cash, take a punt on a proven top player or two and see where the journey takes you.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 30, 2016)

Slime said:



			To be fair to Phil, I think he's bang on with his Arsenal appraisal.
Most of their fans must be soooooooooooo confused and deflated.
Splash the cash, take a punt on a proven top player or two and see where the journey takes you.
		
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He probably is,but then he'll bang on about how great Liverpools average signings are. 
TV money as also gone through the roof for them. 
But I'm sure he can put a good spin on it.


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## sawtooth (Jul 30, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If he wants to do that then why hasn't he before - it's another summer for Arsenal where teams around look to strengthen and move forward and Arsenal just leave the same old gaps in the team and because of that people expect the same old season as the previous 10 

Do you think there will ever be a time for you when you will say enough is enough and its time someone actually looked to move Arsenal forward - or are you happy with top 4 each year and that's it. Do you think with the club charging more for a season ticket than nearly anyone else in European football the fans should expect more ? Telly money gone through the roof this year and teams looking to spend big on players and Arsenal buy another "young potential" - would you like to see them spend the money required for someone like Higuain knowing that he adds a massive extra dimension that Arsenal are crying out for
		
Click to expand...

Â£75M on a 29 yr old that hasn't played a second of PL football does not guarantee a 'massive extra dimension that Arsenal are crying out for'. Do you even know if Higuain ever wanted to leave Italy?

Arsenal second in the league last year and Wenger beat the likes of Klopp, Van Gaal, Hiddink, Pochettino, Pellegrini etc.  So not too shabby , where did Liverpool finish again?

Arsenal charge what people are prepared to pay to watch great, exciting , progressive football in the city of London - market forces.

We don't have the same fan base as Utd and we don't have sugar daddies like Chelsea and City. So i know if we are top 4 then we are doing OK.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 30, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yeah you've only got to look at the World class players that Klopps been splashing the cash on&#128563;&#128514;. 
But obviously you're happy and the future looks bright &#128580;

Crack on Hall of famer &#128077;&#127995;&#128077;&#127995;
		
Click to expand...

So general football discussion, everybody's opinion allowed and as soon as Phil posts you come on and start the wind up!! give it a rest, it's you trolling his every post that is becoming boring and spoiling this thread, even worse when you agree with Slime about his post being sensible, but he'll talk crap in the future so your giving him stick for future posts.

Grow up or put him on ignore


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Â£75M on a 29 yr old that hasn't played a second of PL football does not guarantee a 'massive extra dimension that Arsenal are crying out for'. Do you even know if Higuain ever wanted to leave Italy?

Arsenal second in the league last year and Wenger beat the likes of Klopp, Van Gaal, Hiddink, Pochettino, Pellegrini etc.  So not too shabby , where did Liverpool finish again?

Arsenal charge what people are prepared to pay to watch great, exciting , progressive football in the city of London - market forces.

We don't have the same fan base as Utd and *we don't have sugar daddies like Chelsea and City*. So i know if we are top 4 then we are doing OK.
		
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Oh the rank hypocrisy; moan like stink about other clubs having rich owners yet quite happy to have a manager who is on record as saying that there are two prices for every player, the Chelsea price and everybody else's price.  You really couldn't make it up.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 30, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So general football discussion, everybody's opinion allowed and as soon as Phil posts you come on and start the wind up!! give it a rest, it's you trolling his every post that is becoming boring and spoiling this thread, even worse when you agree with Slime about his post being sensible, but he'll talk crap in the future so your giving him stick for future posts.

Grow up or put him on ignore
		
Click to expand...

Why not put me on ignore Paul?? &#128563;&#128563;

Sluuuurrp sluuuuuurrrp


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 30, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Why not put me on ignore Paul?? &#128563;&#128563;

Sluuuurrp sluuuuuurrrp
		
Click to expand...

Seriously, have a look at yourself, nothing to do with childish remarks (slurp etc) you agreed with Slime his post was sensible! So the only reason you answered him was to have a dig, you are the issue on the football thread, you stalk him, check your own posts out and if I'm wrong I'll make a donation to H4H


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 30, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Seriously, have a look at yourself, nothing to do with childish remarks (slurp etc) you agreed with Slime his post was sensible! So the only reason you answered him was to have a dig, you are the issue on the football thread, you stalk him, check your own posts out and if I'm wrong I'll make a donation to H4H
		
Click to expand...

Sorry Paul I'm struggling to make much sense out of this &#128077;&#127995;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 30, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Sorry Paul I'm struggling to make much sense out of this &#128077;&#127995;
		
Click to expand...

So you're just a troll and I'm out.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 30, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So you're just a troll and I'm out.
		
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Ok Paul no worries &#128077;&#127995;


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 30, 2016)

So apparently City won't go to Â£50m for Stones. 
Â£50m should get you the finished article,not potential.
Bet Barnsley are preying for the move to happen.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			You'll have to ask Wenger. I'm sure that he will want to change certain things from last season not so much in personnel but how we play, formation, strategy etc.

Another season with the same group of players cannot hurt either. Some young players breaking through, fit again Wilshere and Cazorla. Xhaka  looks a decent signing.....

Doesn't worry me, people on here writing off Arsenal before anyone has kicked a ball.
		
Click to expand...

If you're right and you do kick on from last season then surely only winning the League is an acceptable improvement over last season.

What then would be unacceptable?
Still got over 4 weeks of the transfer window left so he could buy, but I would suggest anything outside the top 4 this season would be disastrous for you's.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 30, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			but I would suggest anything outside the top 4 this season would be disastrous for you's.
		
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Nothing like stating the obvious&#128580;


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## Fish (Jul 30, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So general football discussion, everybody's opinion allowed and as soon as Phil posts you come on and start the wind up!! give it a rest, it's you trolling his every post that is becoming boring and spoiling this thread, even worse when you agree with Slime about his post being sensible, but he'll talk crap in the future so your giving him stick for future posts.

Grow up or put him on ignore
		
Click to expand...

I think it's you who has a problem with Pinseeker which is bordering obsessive! PS is constantly on here and questioning everyone's opinions, so why not LP's also when he jumps in? The point PS was making, which I could see, was although LP's post was accurate against what Sean posted, he (ps) was questioning the irony of it as Liverpool aren't exactly doing what he was suggesting and preaching. 

Maybe if you pulled yourself out of LP's backside you'd have read it correctly instead of in your biased view of PS, IMO.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 30, 2016)

Fish said:



			I think it's you who has a problem with Pinseeker which is bordering obsessive! PS is constantly on here and questioning everyone's opinions, so why not LP's also when he jumps in? The point PS was making, which I could see, was although LP's post was accurate against what Sean posted, he (ps) was questioning the irony of it as Liverpool aren't exactly doing what he was suggesting and preaching. 

Maybe if you pulled yourself out of LP's backside you'd have read it correctly instead of in your biased view of PS, IMO.
		
Click to expand...

You're wasting your time fish,Paul just sees it as a oppertunity to score brownie points with Phil AGAIN.


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## Fish (Jul 30, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			but I would suggest anything outside the top 4 this season would be disastrous for you's.
		
Click to expand...

You weren't out for long &#128540;

And what a comment that is, the only 1 you'll never hear when referring to Everton &#128514;&#128514;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 30, 2016)

Fish said:



			You weren't out for long &#128540;

And what a comment that is, the only 1 you'll never hear when referring to Everton &#128514;&#128514;
		
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I won't be replying to the troll anymore, not the thread&#128515;


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 30, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I won't be replying to the troll anymore, not the thread&#128515;
		
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You've said this before,any chance of sticking to it this time?


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## Fish (Jul 30, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I won't be replying to the troll anymore, not the thread&#128515;
		
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Which one, LP or PS &#128514;&#128514;


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 30, 2016)

Fish said:



			Which one, LP or PS &#128514;&#128514;
		
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&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;
Knob


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 30, 2016)

https://twitter.com/bbcsporf/status/759399502126190592

&#128514;


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## sawtooth (Jul 30, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Oh the rank hypocrisy; moan like stink about other clubs having rich owners yet quite happy to have a manager who is on record as saying that there are two prices for every player, the Chelsea price and everybody else's price.  You really couldn't make it up.
		
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Hardly moaning like stink, just pointing out where Arsenal are in the pecking order in terms of financial muscle in the transfer market.

I wouldn't mention it at all but it seems certain people need reminding that Arsenal are infact doing quite well and that Wenger is doing a great job. Just putting things in perspective a little that's all  - no offence.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 30, 2016)

Over 100k expected in Michigan later to see Chelsea v Real. 
From a financial point of view can certainly see why clubs push their brand so much abroad. 
Apparently Chelsea were 3rd on the list of shirts sold in 2015/16,behind Barca & Bayern. 
UTD & Arsenal also in the top 10.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Hardly moaning like stink, just pointing out where Arsenal are in the pecking order in terms of financial muscle in the transfer market.

I wouldn't mention it at all but it seems certain people need reminding that Arsenal are infact doing quite well and that Wenger is doing a great job. Just putting things in perspective a little that's all  - no offence.
		
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Wenger does a great job as a buinsinessman. As a football manager, i'd argue he's doing quite a poor job. Last year was a bottle job. The title was yours to win. Yet you scored how many points?

You do the same each season. You arent good enough to get to 80 points and how often is the league won with that few points.

I'd predict you'll get another 75-77 points, where you finish will depend more on your opponents than you. They play well and youll finish outside top 4. they do badly and you may squeak second.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Â£75M on a 29 yr old that hasn't played a second of PL football does not guarantee a 'massive extra dimension that Arsenal are crying out for'. Do you even know if Higuain ever wanted to leave Italy?

Arsenal second in the league last year and Wenger beat the likes of Klopp, Van Gaal, Hiddink, Pochettino, Pellegrini etc.  So not too shabby , where did Liverpool finish again?

Arsenal charge what people are prepared to pay to watch great, exciting , progressive football in the city of London - market forces.

We don't have the same fan base as Utd and we don't have sugar daddies like Chelsea and City. So i know if we are top 4 then we are doing OK.
		
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It's all just the same excuses every summer 

Higuain is a proven goalscorer - if you are going to dismiss any player who hasn't played in the Prem then who are you left with ? 

Last year was Arsenals best chance and yet blew it again plus the annual last 16 exit in the CL 

Arsenal are one of the biggest richest clubs in the world owned by a billionaire - Leicester blew your money excuse out the window 

So for you is top 4 your level of ambition ?


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 30, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's all just the same excuses every summer 

Higuain is a proven goalscorer - if you are going to dismiss any player who hasn't played in the Prem then who are you left with ? 

Last year was Arsenals best chance and yet blew it again plus the annual last 16 exit in the CL 

Arsenal are one of the biggest richest clubs in the world owned by a billionaire - Leicester blew your money excuse out the window 

So for you is top 4 your level of ambition ?
		
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So The reason Liverpool haven't won the league since Jesus was a lad is because other teams have bought the league,and now you're upset because Arsenal aren't "buying the league" &#129300;


Oh & it's your year this year &#128077;&#127995;&#128077;&#127995;
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ad-is-his-now-and-is-pleased-with-its-quality

Hope this post is ok with you Paulie &#128563;


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## fundy (Jul 30, 2016)

Ah good to see the same old faces are criticising Arsenal for the same old things again lol, like a broken record this thread. Everyone knows the "arsenal approach" but also knows better, despite their club potentially having far bigger issues based on last season! Or is it just easier to discuss Arsenals failings than other clubs?

Just out of curiosity, why is it just Arsenal that bottled it last season? I keep reading that Arsenal bottled it? How? They werent the best team, Leicester were, but in comparison to the so called other big clubs, how were Arsenal the ones that bottled it? What happened to Chelsea, City, United, Liverpool and Spurs that meant it was Arsenal and not them that bottled it?


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## Papas1982 (Jul 30, 2016)

fundy said:



			Ah good to see the same old faces are criticising Arsenal for the same old things again lol, like a broken record this thread. Everyone knows the "arsenal approach" but also knows better, despite their club potentially having far bigger issues based on last season! Or is it just easier to discuss Arsenals failings than other clubs?

Just out of curiosity, why is it just Arsenal that bottled it last season? I keep reading that Arsenal bottled it? How? They werent the best team, Leicester were, but in comparison to the so called other big clubs, how were Arsenal the ones that bottled it? What happened to Chelsea, City, United, Liverpool and Spurs that meant it was Arsenal and not them that bottled it?
		
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The reason i say arsenal bottled it, is because quite frequently i've heard their fans blame the money clubs for their lack of titles. Well that wasnt valid last season. Spurs and liverpool arent title contenders so blew nothing. 

Where as UTD, chelsea and city had stinkers. I'd still expect all three of those to win the league again before arsenal do under Wenger.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 30, 2016)

fundy said:



			Ah good to see the same old faces are criticising Arsenal for the same old things again lol, like a broken record this thread. Everyone knows the "arsenal approach" but also knows better, despite their club potentially having far bigger issues based on last season! Or is it just easier to discuss Arsenals failings than other clubs?

Just out of curiosity, why is it just Arsenal that bottled it last season? I keep reading that Arsenal bottled it? How? They werent the best team, Leicester were, but in comparison to the so called other big clubs, how were Arsenal the ones that bottled it? What happened to Chelsea, City, United, Liverpool and Spurs that meant it was Arsenal and not them that bottled it?
		
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Chelsea never bottled it,we were just rubbish. 
Spurs were the big bottles.


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## Fish (Jul 30, 2016)

fundy said:



			Ah good to see the same old faces are criticising Arsenal for the same old things again lol, like a broken record this thread. Everyone knows the "arsenal approach" but also knows better, despite their club potentially having far bigger issues based on last season! Or is it just easier to discuss Arsenals failings than other clubs?

Just out of curiosity, why is it just Arsenal that bottled it last season? I keep reading that Arsenal bottled it? How? They werent the best team, Leicester were, but in comparison to the so called other big clubs, how were Arsenal the ones that bottled it? What happened to Chelsea, City, United, Liverpool and Spurs that meant it was Arsenal and not them that bottled it?
		
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We were never in a position to get the top off the bottle.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2016)

fundy said:



			Ah good to see the same old faces are criticising Arsenal for the same old things again lol, like a broken record this thread. Everyone knows the "arsenal approach" but also knows better, despite their club potentially having far bigger issues based on last season! Or is it just easier to discuss Arsenals failings than other clubs?

Just out of curiosity, why is it just Arsenal that bottled it last season? I keep reading that Arsenal bottled it? How? They werent the best team, Leicester were, but in comparison to the so called other big clubs, how were Arsenal the ones that bottled it? What happened to Chelsea, City, United, Liverpool and Spurs that meant it was Arsenal and not them that bottled it?
		
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Yes Liverpool bottled - they weren't good enough and the manager lost his job early because they weren't good enough. The manager didn't meet the expectations of the fans or owners and lost his job because of it. We got a new manager in who has shown signs of being able to take us forward and it will be interesting to see how he does. 

The club aren't afraid to make a change when it's not working out 

Werent Arsenal at one stage 6 points clear and on top at Xmas but then failed to move forward during Feb - with a team a good deal better than Leicesters. The other teams that fell below expectations have made changes - new managers , spending money to get new players into the team - to try and move forward 

Or are Arsenal and their fans happy with not winning the league or CL and just getting into the Top 4 each year - is that the level of expectation and ambition for a club the size of Arsenal 

Quite happy to discuss Liverpools failing over the years - but at least the club are happy to try something different


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 30, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes Liverpool bottled - they weren't good enough and the manager lost his job early because they weren't good enough. The manager didn't meet the expectations of the fans or owners and lost his job because of it. We got a new manager in who has shown signs of being able to take us forward and it will be interesting to see how he does. 

The club aren't afraid to make a change when it's not working out 

Werent Arsenal at one stage 6 points clear and on top at Xmas but then failed to move forward during Feb - with a team a good deal better than Leicesters. The other teams that fell below expectations have made changes - new managers , spending money to get new players into the team - to try and move forward 

Or are Arsenal and their fans happy with not winning the league or CL and just getting into the Top 4 each year - is that the level of expectation and ambition for a club the size of Arsenal 

Quite happy to discuss Liverpools failing over the years - but at least the club are happy to try something different
		
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Try something different?? 
Or keep on buying bang average players from the likes of Southampton & Newcastle&#129300;
With the massive Tv money why not go out & buy some proper quality? 

It's ok to criticise others,but don't try & paint everything Rosie for your own failing club. 
That was my point earlier,sadly the village idiot missed that&#128584;.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 30, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes Liverpool bottled - they weren't good enough and the manager lost his job early because they weren't good enough. The manager didn't meet the expectations of the fans or owners and lost his job because of it. We got a new manager in who has shown signs of being able to take us forward and it will be interesting to see how he does. 

The club aren't afraid to make a change when it's not working out 

Werent Arsenal at one stage 6 points clear and on top at Xmas but then failed to move forward during Feb - with a team a good deal better than Leicesters. The other teams that fell below expectations have made changes - new managers , spending money to get new players into the team - to try and move forward 

Or are Arsenal and their fans happy with not winning the league or CL and just getting into the Top 4 each year - is that the level of expectation and ambition for a club the size of Arsenal 

Quite happy to discuss Liverpools failing over the years - but at least the club are happy to try something different
		
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We never bottled it, we weren't  good enough. Though the timing of a change of manager didn't help, it should've been last summer.


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## freddielong (Jul 30, 2016)

This season is over anyway, remember Liverpoolphil said Jose would guarantee Arsenal or Utd the title so this year's champions are already Utd


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## sawtooth (Jul 30, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Wenger does a great job as a buinsinessman. As a football manager, i'd argue he's doing quite a poor job. Last year was a bottle job. The title was yours to win. Yet you scored how many points?

You do the same each season. You arent good enough to get to 80 points and how often is the league won with that few points.

I'd predict you'll get another 75-77 points, where you finish will depend more on your opponents than you. They play well and youll finish outside top 4. they do badly and you may squeak second.
		
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Sorry but that is just ridiculous.  

Presumably Arsenal were fortunate in the other 17 previous occasions finishing top 4 , lucky for us that the competition didn't play well?!

38 match season , you deserve where you end up whether your competitors lose games at the beginning, middle or end of the season.


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## freddielong (Jul 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Sorry but that is just ridiculous.  

Presumably Arsenal were fortunate in the other 17 previous occasions finishing top 4 , lucky for us that the competition didn't play well?!

38 match season , you deserve where you end up whether your competitors lose games at the beginning, middle or end of the season.
		
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Just put it with the other ridiculous derogatory comments about Arsene there have been many on here over the years.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 30, 2016)

Didn't take Ibra long long.

Just seen it,duffed scissor kick....pffffft 
He's pants.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Sorry but that is just ridiculous.  

Presumably Arsenal were fortunate in the other 17 previous occasions finishing top 4 , lucky for us that the competition didn't play well?!

38 match season , you deserve where you end up whether your competitors lose games at the beginning, middle or end of the season.
		
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How was it ridicuous, which bit was fictitious? 
Did you fluff your lines? YES
Did you again score less than 80? YES

Finishing top 4 doesnt matter! In history, if in 30 years you look back at 30 years in the CL and a few FA cups and conclude thats a success then I'd much rather support my mid table team and dream. 
 Winning the league, which was my point is what matters. You will finish wherever a high 70's point total dictates. Same as the last decade.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 30, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Just put it with the other ridiculous derogatory comments about Arsene there have been many on here over the years.
		
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It wasnt derogatory. He was a great manager. But, for the last decade he's been a great steward. But two FA cups in 10 years doesn't strengthen his legacy.


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## Kellfire (Jul 30, 2016)

https://t.co/C8QYQI3308

Shinned it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2016)

Just reading through the friendly match updates and they were saying that currently Chelsea have 58 players on their books ! Currently 14 on loan leaving 44 in their squad


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 30, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just reading through the friendly match updates and they were saying that currently Chelsea have 58 players on their books ! Currently 14 on loan leaving 44 in their squad
		
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Surely that's the wrong way around 44 on loan  :rofl:


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 30, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Didn't take Ibra long long.

Just seen it,duffed scissor kick....pffffft 
He's pants.
		
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Hardly in the same league as the Rooney version but a goal four minutes into your debut with an effort like that isn't a bad start


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## Stuart_C (Jul 30, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Hardly in the same league as the Rooney version but a goal four minutes into your debut with an effort like that isn't a bad start
		
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Can he do it on a cold and wet Wednesday night At The Britannia though


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 30, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Can he do it on a cold and wet Wednesday night At The Britannia though 

Click to expand...

Who can? I think he's a shrewd buy though and he'll be used wisely. Not a starter every game but not a bad sub perhaps.


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## One Planer (Jul 30, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Can he do it on a cold and wet Wednesday night At The Britannia though 

Click to expand...

Probably.

Sadly not the fortress it used to be.


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 31, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Who can? I think he's a shrewd buy though and he'll be used wisely. Not a starter every game but not a bad sub perhaps.
		
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Quality buy .... FOC!


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 31, 2016)

fundy said:



			Ah good to see the same old faces are criticising Arsenal for the same old things again lol, like a broken record this thread. Everyone knows the "arsenal approach" but also knows better, despite their club potentially having far bigger issues based on last season! Or is it just easier to discuss Arsenals failings than other clubs?

Just out of curiosity, why is it just Arsenal that bottled it last season? *I keep reading that Arsenal bottled it? How? *They werent the best team, Leicester were, but in comparison to the so called other big clubs, how were Arsenal the ones that bottled it? What happened to Chelsea, City, United, Liverpool and Spurs that meant it was Arsenal and not them that bottled it?
		
Click to expand...

Chelsea were absolutely dire last season, the worst they've been in the last 20 years if not longer.  Yet despite that, I do seem to remember them taking 6 points off Arsenal.  

Royally rogered by City at the Etihad, with only Begovic stopping a cricket score, beaten at home by Palace and then away at Everton was the run into the home fixture where the worst Chelsea team in living memory turned you over 2 - 0; home draws against the mighty West Brom and Everton, the latter with a questionable injury time equaliser,  before turning you over at your place.  

I'm sorry but if you seriously consider yourself title contenders you should have put us to the sword in both of those games, but you bottled it both times.  6 of the 10 points you were behind Leicester right there.


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## freddielong (Jul 31, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Chelsea were absolutely dire last season, the worst they've been in the last 20 years if not longer.  Yet despite that, I do seem to remember them taking 6 points off Arsenal.  

Royally rogered by City at the Etihad, with only Begovic stopping a cricket score, beaten at home by Palace and then away at Everton was the run into the home fixture where the worst Chelsea team in living memory turned you over 2 - 0; home draws against the mighty West Brom and Everton, the latter with a questionable injury time equaliser,  before turning you over at your place.  

I'm sorry but if you seriously consider yourself title contenders you should have put us to the sword in both of those games, but you bottled it both times.  6 of the 10 points you were behind Leicester right there.
		
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The ref gave you the first game


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 31, 2016)

freddielong said:



			The ref gave you the first game
		
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Great brace he scored .......


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 31, 2016)

Hat trick for Lampard yesterday in the MLS. 
At today's prices how much would he be worth in his prime? 
Â£80m minimum


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## Stuart_C (Jul 31, 2016)

freddielong said:



			The ref gave you the first game
		
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Didn't Gabrial lose his head that game and get sent off?


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 31, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Didn't Gabrial lose his head that game and get sent off?
		
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No the ref incited him.....


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 31, 2016)

Same old crap on here I see.

If lpoolphil has a good point, turn it back on the team he supports.

pinseeker having one way arguments with people who can't see his rubbish, picks his fights doesn't he.

fish, the enemy of my...........you have nothing in common with pinseeker, except a mutual hatred,don't align yourself with him mate.:thup:


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 31, 2016)

freddielong said:



			The ref gave you the first game
		
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Same ref that didn't give us 2 stonewall penalties?  Same ref that you'd have praised to the roof had the snide kick out been by Costa on Gabriel rather than the other way round and he'd spotted it?  Your lot bottled it & lost their heads, end of.

How were you robbed of the second game, or did you just bottle that as well?


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## Stuart_C (Jul 31, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			No the ref incited him..... 

Click to expand...

:rofl:  :rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 31, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Same old crap on here I see.

If lpoolphil has a good point, turn it back on the team he supports.

pinseeker having one way arguments with people who can't see his rubbish, picks his fights doesn't he.

fish, the enemy of my...........you have nothing in common with pinseeker, except a mutual hatred,don't align yourself with him mate.:thup:
		
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Stick to cleaning windows lad 



I'm slightly disappointed that you didn't add your usual hilarious line at the end of this post 

#residentfunnyman :rofl:


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## freddielong (Aug 1, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Same ref that didn't give us 2 stonewall penalties?  Same ref that you'd have praised to the roof had the snide kick out been by Costa on Gabriel rather than the other way round and he'd spotted it?  Your lot bottled it & lost their heads, end of.

How were you robbed of the second game, or did you just bottle that as well?
		
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If that is true why was Gabriels red card recinded and why did Costa receive a ban, because the referee sent off the wrong player.


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## sawtooth (Aug 1, 2016)

Chelsea looking to re-sign Lukaku and Everton asking for around Â£75M

Good bit of business there by Chelsea who sold him a couple of years ago for Â£28M ;-)


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 1, 2016)

Not quite as good as Man Utd and Pogba but still funny.

I have an image of the top bods at Everton sat laughing around the phone, making up numbers. "They've offered Â£50m", "Ask for Â£75m, go on, it will be funny". Cue sniggering and school boy laughter. Everton can't lose. If Lukaku stays he will get us 20-25 goals. If we sell him for Â£60-Â£70m we can buy a number of players with that. We just have to buy intelligently.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 1, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Chelsea looking to re-sign Lukaku and Everton asking for around Â£75M

Good bit of business there by Chelsea who sold him a couple of years ago for Â£28M ;-)
		
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So you think Chelsea are goin to pay Â£75m? ðŸ™ˆ


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## sawtooth (Aug 1, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			So you think Chelsea are goin to pay Â£75m? ðŸ™ˆ
		
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Possibly , they have money to burn.


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## ger147 (Aug 1, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			So you think Chelsea are goin to pay Â£75m? ðŸ™ˆ
		
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No - Arsenal will nip in with a Â£80m bid and snatch him from under Chelsea's noses at the last minute...


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## freddielong (Aug 1, 2016)

ger147 said:



			No - Arsenal will nip in with a Â£80m bid and snatch him from under Chelsea's noses at the last minute...
		
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Dear God no.

It's no wonder Wenger is perturbed by the current transfer market, 4 years ago Â£16million bought you Santi Cazorla, now it would buy you Johnny Evans.

I leave that there for you to think about.


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## Slime (Aug 1, 2016)

ger147 said:



			No - Arsenal will nip in with a Â£80m bid and snatch him from under Chelsea's noses at the last minute...
		
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No, no, no.
If someone offers Â£75M, Wenger will surely come in with a bid of Â£75,000,001 .


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## stokie_93 (Aug 1, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Not quite as good as Man Utd and Pogba but still funny.

I have an image of the top bods at Everton sat laughing around the phone, making up numbers. "They've offered Â£50m", "Ask for Â£75m, go on, it will be funny". Cue sniggering and school boy laughter. Everton can't lose. If Lukaku stays he will get us 20-25 goals. If we sell him for Â£60-Â£70m we can buy a number of players with that. We just have to buy intelligently.
		
Click to expand...

Depends who will want to move to you.

You've been linked to a few names already in this window and no one really seems to be interested.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 1, 2016)

The word is it will all happen this week at Goodison. If not then we could have a ropey start. We are thin in depth and need to add some quality in certain positions. You never know if the players linked are genuine or just agents bumping up prices. Non have been earth shattering so far so I can't say I'm stressed that they have not come our way. An awful lot of clubs have done very little at this stage. It could be a mad last week of the window.


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## stokie_93 (Aug 1, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The word is it will all happen this week at Goodison. If not then we could have a ropey start. We are thin in depth and need to add some quality in certain positions. You never know if the players linked are genuine or just agents bumping up prices. Non have been earth shattering so far so I can't say I'm stressed that they have not come our way. An awful lot of clubs have done very little at this stage. It could be a mad last week of the window.
		
Click to expand...

yeah, should probably get a bit of a move on with it.

Running the risk of A) not getting the right signings in on time B) Panic buying C) Focusing more on signings than the squad you've got now.

I think if you don't get any new faces in sharpish you may be in for another long year. Another year of us ahead of you too


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 1, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The word is it will all happen this week at Goodison. If not then we could have a ropey start. We are thin in depth and need to add some quality in certain positions. You never know if the players linked are genuine or just agents bumping up prices. Non have been earth shattering so far so I can't say I'm stressed that they have not come our way. An awful lot of clubs have done very little at this stage. It could be a mad last week of the window.
		
Click to expand...

TBH I'd be happy if Koeman gets 12 months with the current squad, a lot was made of the potential of it last year, so new man, new ideas, let's see if he can get them playing to that potential. The ones we've released are no great loss.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 1, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Dear God no.

It's no wonder Wenger is perturbed by the current transfer market, 4 years ago Â£16million bought you Santi Cazorla, now it would buy you Johnny Evans.

I leave that there for you to think about.
		
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and 15 years ago 10m got you Jeffers......
Whilst Utd bought Ronaldo for 12m 2 years later.....

Theyre are plenty of good and bad examples


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## freddielong (Aug 1, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			and 15 years ago 10m got you Jeffers......
Whilst Utd bought Ronaldo for 12m 2 years later.....

Theyre are plenty of good and bad examples
		
Click to expand...

It was more that 16 used to be a top top  player not a poor one


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 1, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			TBH I'd be happy if Koeman gets 12 months with the current squad, a lot was made of the potential of it last year, so new man, new ideas, let's see if he can get them playing to that potential. The ones we've released are no great loss.
		
Click to expand...

To an extent I agree but our GK were not good enough last year and neither we're our back up strikers. The rest can wait but I don't think those positions can.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 1, 2016)

freddielong said:



			It was more that 16 used to be a top top  player not a poor one
		
Click to expand...

The market has moved on - Â£1mil used to get you a top top player 

We got Coutinho for Â£8.5 only 3 years ago 

Every now and then a player is bought for a very good price but once a player is in any sort of headline for his play then his price is put up - Cazola at one stage was being touted at over Â£25-30mil when he was with Spain in 08


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 1, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			To an extent I agree but our GK were not good enough last year and neither we're our back up strikers. The rest can wait but I don't think those positions can.
		
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A lot of the issues though were down to tactics and no plan B, he's got another keeper and if we can keep the bulk then I'd rather spend 8-15Mil looking for back up than 40-50 and starting again, again and again.
We'd be stupid to turn down the daft money that is being touted around, but I don't want to start the season with one squad and 2 weeks later when the transfer window shuts have 2-4 panic buys to replace people we lose, make decisions now and get on with it.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 1, 2016)

freddielong said:



			It was more that 16 used to be a top top  player not a poor one
		
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Shearer and Denilson both cost 15m within weeks of each other.
the transfer fee doesn't always dictate the calibre of player. Some are finished articles, others are potential. 

Cazorla was a good price, Johnny Evans would probably be about right in this market. 

All things football related have gone up in The top flight. My first season ticket was less than Â£300 it isn't anymore.


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## Hobbit (Aug 1, 2016)

ger147 said:



			No - Arsenal will nip in with a Â£80m bid and snatch him from under Chelsea's noses at the last minute...
		
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Holy smoke Batman! I've just fired Stella over my iPad. If he's more than 17/6 Arsenal won't be paying


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 1, 2016)

freddielong said:



			If that is true why was Gabriels red card recinded and why did Costa receive a ban, because the referee sent off the wrong player.
		
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As has been pointed out on here many times before, it's more often not what's done but who's done it that decides that.  

Only the disciplinary panel could come up with the excuse of because he didn't make contact the kick was sufficient for a straight red card.


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## freddielong (Aug 1, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			As has been pointed out on here many times before, it's more often not what's done but who's done it that decides that.  

Only the disciplinary panel could come up with the excuse of because he didn't make contact the kick was sufficient for a straight red card.
		
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Or more likely they watched it decided the ref got it wrong and dished out the relevant punishment.


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## Old Skier (Aug 1, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Holy smoke Batman! I've just fired Stella over my iPad. If he's more than 17/6 Arsenal won't be paying
		
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About time someone bought some sanity back into the market. The cost of 2nd rate players is getting silly.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 1, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Or more likely they watched it decided the ref got it wrong and dished out the relevant punishment.
		
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Yet curiously enough, for the first and probably the only time in living memory, Arsene Wenger actually saw an Arsenal player commit a transgression and agreed in the post match interview that the referee was correct to dismiss him.


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## freddielong (Aug 1, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Yet curiously enough, for the first and probably the only time in living memory, Arsene Wenger actually saw an Arsenal player commit a transgression and agreed in the post match interview that the referee was correct to dismiss him.
		
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And yet the panel that watched it recinded the red and punished Costa because the ref sent the wrong man off.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 1, 2016)

I confee, i can't recall the game too well. So did a little google. From what i just read, Arsenal were lucky to have reached half time at 0-0. So whilst the apparent injustice may have helped condemn them to defeat. It was hardly likely that a simple victory was all theirs if it had remained 11 aside.


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## freddielong (Aug 2, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			I confee, i can't recall the game too well. So did a little google. From what i just read, Arsenal were lucky to have reached half time at 0-0. So whilst the apparent injustice may have helped condemn them to defeat. It was hardly likely that a simple victory was all theirs if it had remained 11 aside.
		
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Pretty confident we would have won against 10 men instead of having 10 men.


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## Kellfire (Aug 2, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Pretty confident we would have won against 10 men instead of having 10 men.
		
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I'm shocked as you're usually so unbiased.


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## freddielong (Aug 2, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			I'm shocked as you're usually so unbiased.
		
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I am sensing sarcasm but fail to see what my lack of neutrality has to do with the decision of a panel of experts.


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## Slime (Aug 2, 2016)

Why do I get the feeling that Stones may end up at United?


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 2, 2016)

Slime said:



			Why do I get the feeling that Stones may end up at United?
		
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Can't see it tbh mate. 
It'll be City or stuck at Everton.


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## Kellfire (Aug 2, 2016)

Slime said:



			Why do I get the feeling that Stones may end up at United?
		
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Not a Mourinho style CB.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 2, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Not a Mourinho style CB.
		
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He wanted him at Chelsea last season, so not sure what's changed.
I'd be happy if he went nowhere just yet.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 2, 2016)

Slime said:



			Why do I get the feeling that Stones may end up at United?
		
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I thought the same until they signed a CB.


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## Fish (Aug 3, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			He wanted him at Chelsea last season, so not sure what's changed.
I'd be happy if he went nowhere just yet.
		
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Just because Chelsea go for some players I can assure you it's not always with the current managers full blessing.  We've got a complete knob doing that side of things and until he goes there will be bad signings & sales of players along with hanging on to too much dead wood.

Also what might be a good fit into 1 team diesnt make him (Stones) a good fit in another, unless your going to build around that player, but I don't think Stones has matured yet to build around, he's good and could get a lot better playing with and around more experience, but he's not a leader by example yet IMO.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 3, 2016)

Fish said:



			Just because Chelsea go for some players I can assure you it's not always with the current managers full blessing.  We've got a complete knob doing that side of things and until he goes there will be bad signings & sales of players along with hanging on to too much dead wood.

Also what might be a good fit into 1 team diesnt make him (Stones) a good fit in another, unless your going to build around that player, but I don't think Stones has matured yet to build around, he's good and could get a lot better playing with and around more experience, but he's not a leader by example yet IMO.
		
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Agreed, but on the reverse some managers like particular players.
I don't rate Stones anywhere near the money being touted about, but Jose did make quite a few statements about him at the time.
As you know I rate Jose as possibly the best manager currently in football and to put up a one liner with no back up as Kellfire did saying he's not a Jose style CB is puzzling.
Jose knows exactly what he wants from his teams and gets the best out of them.


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## stokie_93 (Aug 3, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			As you know I rate Jose as possibly the best manager currently in football
		
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Certainly showed it last season 

Simeone is a better manager for a start if you ask me.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 3, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Certainly showed it last season 

Simeone is a better manager for a start if you ask me.
		
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That's what good about Football, we all have opinions and very rarely agree&#128515;
Simeone has nowhere near the record Jose does, and Jose has done it with every team in diferent leagues, Simeone has been fantastic with one club in one league.


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## Kellfire (Aug 3, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			As you know I rate Jose as possibly the best manager currently in football and to put up a one liner with no back up as Kellfire did saying he's not a Jose style CB is puzzling..
		
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Jose normally tends towards big, strong athletic no nonsense CBs like Bailly. Not always but I don't see him wanting Stones at United.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 3, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Jose normally tends towards big, strong athletic no nonsense CBs like Bailly. Not always but I don't see him wanting Stones at United.
		
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Fair one, hope Koeman can do it, but honestly believe someone like Jose could get Stones to his potential, regardless of what Club Jose was/is at.


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## stokie_93 (Aug 3, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			That's what good about Football, we all have opinions and very rarely agree&#62979;
Simeone has nowhere near the record Jose does, and Jose has done it with every team in diferent leagues, Simeone has been fantastic with one club in one league.
		
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Think we'll see truly see how good Jose is, I think the guys brilliant and no denying he's a brilliant manager.

He's got one hell of a task at United though at the rate they've declined the last couple of years.


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## fundy (Aug 3, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Think we'll see truly see how good Jose is, I think the guys brilliant and no denying he's a brilliant manager.

He's got one hell of a task at United though at the rate they've declined the last couple of years.
		
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one hell of a task? Blank chequebook, buy who you want at whatever price. You want to pay Â£100m for a player we gave away, go ahead Jose - you think thats a hard task? Dream management job isnt it


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 3, 2016)

fundy said:



			one hell of a task? Blank chequebook, buy who you want at whatever price. You want to pay Â£100m for a player we gave away, go ahead Jose - you think thats a hard task? Dream management job isnt it
		
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Dream managers job would be one with a massive salary & no pressure to win anything ðŸ¤”


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## pokerjoke (Aug 3, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Certainly showed it last season 

Simeone is a better manager for a start if you ask me.
		
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What makes you come up with this statement I'm all ears on this one?


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## stokie_93 (Aug 3, 2016)

fundy said:



			one hell of a task? Blank chequebook, buy who you want at whatever price. You want to pay Â£100m for a player we gave away, go ahead Jose - you think thats a hard task? Dream management job isnt it
		
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As Pin-seeker said, a blank chequebook doesn't make it an easy task.

He had an abundance of money last season at Chelsea, you gonna tell me that went well. (yes i know he's been successful previous years)


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## stokie_93 (Aug 3, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			What makes you come up with this statement I'm all ears on this one?
		
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he's won La Liga and narrowly missed out on 2 champions league cups with a team that is below the standards of others in said competitions.

He has also done this at a 'selling club' every year they sell a big player and he manages to replace.
They haven't got the biggest pulling power for a club and don't get the A list players but he always gets them playing and always signs the right players. 
Look at Griezzmann, good player when at Sociedad but the level he's managed to step up to whilst at Athletico is phenomenal.

He's a fantastic tactician and always wears his heart on his sleeve.

Brilliant manager if you ask me.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 3, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Think we'll see truly see how good Jose is, I think the guys brilliant and no denying he's a brilliant manager.

He's got one hell of a task at United though at the rate they've declined the last couple of years.
		
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All because they didn't treat Moyes fairly! :rofl:


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## pokerjoke (Aug 3, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			he's won La Liga and narrowly missed out on 2 champions league cups with a team that is below the standards of others in said competitions.

He has also done this at a 'selling club' every year they sell a big player and he manages to replace.
They haven't got the biggest pulling power for a club and don't get the A list players but he always gets them playing and always signs the right players. 
Look at Griezzmann, good player when at Sociedad but the level he's managed to step up to whilst at Athletico is phenomenal.

He's a fantastic tactician and always wears his heart on his sleeve.

Brilliant manager if you ask me.
		
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The forum that just keeps on giving.

If I could be bothered to entertain I think I could come up with a much better argument for Jose but I really do have to get on with my life in the real world.

Your entiltled to your opinion though


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## stokie_93 (Aug 3, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			The forum that just keeps on giving.

If I could be bothered to entertain I think I could come up with a much better argument for Jose but I really do have to get on with my life in the real world.

Your entiltled to your opinion though
		
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Apologies that my opinion doesn't match up to yours.


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## freddielong (Aug 3, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			The forum that just keeps on giving.

If I could be bothered to entertain I think I could come up with a much better argument for Jose but I really do have to get on with my life in the real world.

Your entiltled to your opinion though
		
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How rude asks you for your opinion then does one.


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## sawtooth (Aug 3, 2016)

I see that City have just spent another Â£26M on Gabriel Jesus. Spending has now gone beyond Â£100M

Man U will easily top that if they buy Pogba

Must be really difficult managing teams like Utd and City.

Guardiola and Mourinho are genius and will rightly be lauded if they win silverware this season.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I see that City have just spent another Â£26M on Gabriel Jesus. Spending has now gone beyond Â£100M

Man U will easily top that if they buy Pogba

Must be really difficult managing teams like Utd and City.

Guardiola and Mourinho are genius and will rightly be lauded if they win silverware this season.
		
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Try and be a bit more subtle when fishing ðŸ™„


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## Fish (Aug 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I see that City have just spent another Â£26M on Gabriel Jesus. Spending has now gone beyond Â£100M

Man U will easily top that if they buy Pogba

Must be really difficult managing teams like Utd and City.

Guardiola and Mourinho are genius and will rightly be lauded if they win silverware this season.
		
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Oh the bitterness, it's not our fault you have a billionaire owner who never attends and hasn't put a penny of his own money into the club and yet charges 3m a year for advisory services! You have the 3rd highest income/turnover, one of the highest gate receipts and yet you bleet about money all the time, the records getting thin now, it's your choice or Stans and Arsene's you don't spend anything, you've got the dollar, we heard all last season you were going to spend big this time now the excuses of the stadium had finished, so, wheres these big spending signings?   

Will never happen whilst Arsene is there IMO and whilst he's there and doesn't change, you won't win the PL, IMHO


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## sawtooth (Aug 3, 2016)

Bitter? Certainly not bitter.

I'm pleased and proud at how our club is run.


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## freddielong (Aug 3, 2016)

Fish said:



			Oh the bitterness, it's not our fault you have a billionaire owner who never attends and hasn't put a penny of his own money into the club and yet charges 3m a year for advisory services! You have the 3rd highest income/turnover, one of the highest gate receipts and yet you bleet about money all the time, the records getting thin now, it's your choice or Stans and Arsene's you don't spend anything, you've got the dollar, we heard all last season you were going to spend big this time now the excuses of the stadium had finished, so, wheres these big spending signings?   

Will never happen whilst Arsene is there IMO and whilst he's there and doesn't change, you won't win the PL, IMHO
		
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If you want to pretend you know what your talking about, its possibly best to get your facts right, Stan is the major shareholder he isn't the owner.


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## Fish (Aug 3, 2016)

freddielong said:



			If you want to pretend you know what your talking about, its possibly best to get your facts right, Stan is the major shareholder he isn't the owner.
		
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*Arsenal ownership* Arsenal Holdings PLC, major shareholders are: Kroenke Sports Enterprises UK (registered in Delaware, owned by US resident Stan Kroenke) 67%; Red and White Securities Limited (owned via Jersey, by Russian resident Alisher Usmanov) 30%.

Stan Kroenke appears the epitome of absentee investor ownership; he has put no money into the club itself, rarely attends, and his company again charged a Â£3m fee for â€œstrategic and advisory servicesâ€.

Good enough for you..


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## freddielong (Aug 3, 2016)

Wow you can Google,  well done.

Maybe you can stop calling him the owner now you know he isn't &#128077;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 3, 2016)

Belgium appoint Roberto Martinez as there new manager!!!
Good luck to him.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 3, 2016)

:mmm: failure rewarded.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 3, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			:mmm: failure rewarded.
		
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Surprised tbh, newspapers had him linked with Hull. 

Mind you, name a manager who hasn't failed and been rewarded, they all seem to just shuffle around.


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## sawtooth (Aug 3, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Surprised tbh, newspapers had him linked with Hull. 

Mind you, name a manager who hasn't failed and been rewarded, they all seem to just shuffle around.
		
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Wenger


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Wenger
		
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So are you saying he's failed at Arsenal?


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 3, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Belgium appoint Roberto Martinez as there new manager!!!
Good luck to him.
		
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Mason Holgate looks a good prospect?


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## Stuart_C (Aug 4, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Mason Holgate looks a good prospect?
		
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Did you go?


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## sawtooth (Aug 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So are you saying he's failed at Arsenal?
		
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No he hasn't failed ( isn't failing) 

I think most neutral , unbiased, football loving people will share the same view.


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## Hobbit (Aug 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			No he hasn't failed ( isn't failing) 

I think most neutral , unbiased, football loving people will share the same view.
		
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I think what he achieved during the tight financial times was fantastic. Now, I think he is failing. 

Which Arsenal player excites? None. They are as grey as Wenger's suit. Is there a Henry, Vieta, Wright, Adams, Bergkamp in the squad? No, there isn't one single stand out star.


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## freddielong (Aug 4, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			I think what he achieved during the tight financial times was fantastic. Now, I think he is failing. 

Which Arsenal player excites? None. They are as grey as Wenger's suit. Is there a Henry, Vieta, Wright, Adams, Bergkamp in the squad? No, there isn't one single stand out star.
		
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You might find all those players have retired, there is an Alexis, Ã–zil and a Ramsey.


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## sawtooth (Aug 4, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			I think what he achieved during the tight financial times was fantastic. Now, I think he is failing. 

Which Arsenal player excites? None. They are as grey as Wenger's suit. Is there a Henry, Vieta, Wright, Adams, Bergkamp in the squad? No, there isn't one single stand out star.
		
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Ozil, Sanchez, Giroud, Ramsey, Cazorla, Ox, Walcott , Akpom, Campbell, Bellerin, most of them actually.

We have plenty of pace in the team and most can pick a pass or score spectacular goals!

Most of our trouble is keeping everybody fit long enough, Wenger has been very unlucky with injuries at critical times over past seasons. Cost us a championship or 2 for sure but that's football.


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## Hobbit (Aug 4, 2016)

freddielong said:



			You might find all those players have retired, there is an Alexis, Ã–zil and a Ramsey.
		
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They've retired? I hadn't realised.



sawtooth said:



			Ozil, Sanchez, Giroud, Ramsey, Cazorla, Ox, Walcott , Akpom, Campbell, Bellerin, most of them actually.

We have plenty of pace in the team and most can pick a pass or score spectacular goals!

Most of our trouble is keeping everybody fit long enough, Wenger has been very unlucky with injuries at critical times over past seasons. Cost us a championship or 2 for sure but that's football.
		
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But where are the stars? Very good players, some of them, but no stars. Capable of producing some magic occasionally but every player is capable of that. No stars...


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## Fish (Aug 4, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			They've retired? I hadn't realised.



But where are the stars? Very good players, some of them, but no stars. Capable of producing some magic occasionally but every player is capable of that. No stars...
		
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## fundy (Aug 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Ozil, Sanchez, Giroud, Ramsey, Cazorla, Ox, Walcott , Akpom, Campbell, Bellerin, most of them actually.

We have plenty of pace in the team and most can pick a pass or score spectacular goals!

*Most of our trouble is keeping everybody fit long enough*, Wenger has been very unlucky with injuries at critical times over past seasons. Cost us a championship or 2 for sure but that's football.
		
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Not for me its not, its the lack of a proper holding midfielder, complete lack of leadership (ideally from a dominant centre half) and a better number 9. Injuries dont help but everyone suffers them in the modern game (and the more small delicate players you have the more you suffer)


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 4, 2016)

Sanchez & Ozil are top draw. 
The rest are bang average.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Ozil, Sanchez, Giroud, Ramsey, Cazorla, Ox, Walcott , Akpom, Campbell, Bellerin, most of them actually.

We have plenty of pace in the team and most can pick a pass or score spectacular goals!

Most of our trouble is keeping everybody fit long enough, Wenger has been very unlucky with injuries at critical times over past seasons. Cost us a championship or 2 for sure but that's football.
		
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Said many times Wenger HAS been one if not the best manager the PL has seen, but you won't answer a straight question and make excuses, you can't keep saying top 4 is success for a club like Arsenal, 
Basically you seem to say Wenger is a genius and until he steps down you will back him and accept the results he brings, or is there a line?


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Said many times Wenger HAS been one if not the best manager the PL has seen, but you won't answer a straight question and make excuses, you can't keep saying top 4 is success for a club like Arsenal, 
Basically you seem to say Wenger is a genius and until he steps down you will back him and accept the results he brings, or is there a line?
		
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Not even the most deluded Arsenal fan could suggest that he's been the best.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 4, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Did you go?
		
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Can't possibly publicly comment.


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## sawtooth (Aug 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Said many times Wenger HAS been one if not the best manager the PL has seen, but you won't answer a straight question and make excuses, you can't keep saying top 4 is success for a club like Arsenal, 
Basically you seem to say Wenger is a genius and until he steps down you will back him and accept the results he brings, or is there a line?
		
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What direct question did I not answer?

Wenger is NOT failing IMHO.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			What direct question did I not answer?

Wenger is NOT failing IMHO.
		
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Do you think Arsenal should be winning titles and CL ?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			What direct question did I not answer?

Wenger is NOT failing IMHO.
		
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What is unacceptable in your opinion?
Is outside the top 4 OK if you win the FA Cup? 
Where is the line when Wengers future as manager becomes questionable?

NOT failing and being succesful are miles apart though.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Said many times Wenger HAS been one if not the best manager the PL has seen, but you won't answer a straight question and make excuses, you can't keep saying top 4 is success for a club like Arsenal, 
Basically you seem to say Wenger is a genius and until he steps down you will back him and accept the results he brings, or is there a line?
		
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Bloody hell even you Paul have caught the deluded bug and if it carries on this way cookoo land will be full up.

The best manager the P/L has seen[absolute delusion].


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 4, 2016)

Bring on the new season & something new to discuss &#128580;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 4, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Bloody hell even you Paul have caught the deluded bug and if it carries on this way cookoo land will be full up.

The best manager the P/L has seen[absolute delusion].
		
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Not deluded mate, definitely between Fergie and him, going on silverware it's Fergie, but to Arsenal fans on here it seems success is more than trophies, (that's delusional) taking into account longevity, going a season unbeaten etc some would put him above Fergie.


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## sawtooth (Aug 4, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you think Arsenal should be winning titles and CL ?
		
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Should be competing , playing attractive football and being in the mix yes.

It will be nice to win but you have to be realistic. Yes Leicester did it last year but we all know that sort of thing happens once in a blue moon.

Arsenal were close last year as runners up and might go one better this year if we have less injury problems.


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## jp5 (Aug 4, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Is there a Henry, Vieta, Wright, Adams, Bergkamp in the squad? No, there isn't one single stand out star.
		
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sawtooth said:



			Ozil, Sanchez, Giroud, Ramsey, Cazorla, Ox, Walcott , Akpom, Campbell, Bellerin, most of them actually.
		
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Are you serious? Akpom in the same league as Henry? Has he even scored a goal for Arsenal yet?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Should be competing , playing attractive football and being in the mix yes.

It will be nice to win but you have to be realistic. Yes Leicester did it last year but we all know that sort of thing happens once in a blue moon.

Arsenal were close last year as runners up and might go one better this year if we have less injury problems.
		
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Again that avoided the question 

If Wenger has been set just to be a top 4 club then he isn't failing - if it's to win big competitions then he is failing and has been for a decade 

I don't think I have ever seen an Arsenal fan with so low ambition and expectations as yourself - I guess that's because it helps you believe Wenger is doing a great job 

It's the same excuses - money and injuries every single year yet Arsenal are one of the richest clubs in the world and your manager keeps giving these injury prone players new deals instead of going out and buying a deeper squad to cover for injuries


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## pokerjoke (Aug 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Not deluded mate, definitely between Fergie and him, going on silverware it's Fergie, but to Arsenal fans on here it seems success is more than trophies, (that's delusional) taking into account longevity, going a season unbeaten etc some would put him above Fergie.
		
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Bloody hell I give up.

Your not an Arsenal fan and you suggested he might be the best P/L manager ever.
Sean is delusional but we know that already.

Do you put him above Fergie then and if so your reasons.


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## sawtooth (Aug 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Not deluded mate, definitely between Fergie and him, going on silverware it's Fergie, but to Arsenal fans on here it seems success is more than trophies, (that's delusional) taking into account longevity, going a season unbeaten etc some would put him above Fergie.
		
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I agree it does depend on criteria. For example Arsenal are a hell of a lot closer to Utd now in terms of financial clout than we would otherwise have been. Wenger revolutionised Arsenal and put the club on a solid footing that will stand it in good stead for decades to come. 

We could easily have become mid table strugglers if it wasn't for Wenger.

We are one of the safest clubs in the league now, self sustaining and not reliant on any external finances - well not as dependent as others that's for sure.

Clubs like Liverpool, Everton and Spurs haven't reached the same level of stability and without sounding too dramatic they have uncertain futures.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 4, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Bloody hell I give up.

Your not an Arsenal fan and you suggested he might be the best P/L manager ever.
Sean is delusional but we know that already.

Do you put him above Fergie then and if so your reasons.
		
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Fergie is undoubtebly the greatest PL manager we've seen.

Putting a balanced view across with regards Wenger, to me he HAS been superb and 2nd to Fergie, but, imo, he's had his day and he's the reason they haven't won the PL or CL in recent years.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I agree it does depend on criteria. For example Arsenal are a hell of a lot closer to Utd now in terms of financial clout than we would otherwise have been. Wenger revolutionised Arsenal and put the club on a solid footing that will stand it in good stead for decades to come. 

We could easily have become mid table strugglers if it wasn't for Wenger.

We are one of the safest clubs in the league now, self sustaining and not reliant on any external finances - well not as dependent as others that's for sure.

Clubs like Liverpool, Everton and Spurs haven't reached the same level of stability and without sounding too dramatic they have uncertain futures.
		
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There's the problem right there, you're bringing LPool, Everton and Spurs into your argument, you's should be a level ahead and comparing yourself to Chelsea, City and Utd, 
You didn't once mention trophies, even as a delusional Everton fan I expect us to win a trophy as a measurement of success, hence years of abject failure.
There's no trophy for financial stability and I can't see any PL team going bust in the next 20-30 years.


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## Kellfire (Aug 4, 2016)

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

I don't believe Wenger refuses to spend money. I don't believe any manager, especially one who fails to deliver the main trophies for a decade, would refuse that money. The money isn't there to spend, it's being taken off as profits by the owner.

Whether or not Wenger is happy taking a big wage, knowing that failure is a probability every year, or if he truly believes each year is the year that he defies the odds is beyond me.


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## sawtooth (Aug 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			There's the problem right there, you're bringing LPool, Everton and Spurs into your argument, you's should be a level ahead and comparing yourself to Chelsea, City and Utd, 
You didn't once mention trophies, even as a delusional Everton fan I expect us to win a trophy as a measurement of success, hence years of abject failure.
There's no trophy for financial stability and I can't see any PL team going bust in the next 20-30 years.
		
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Can't see any PL team going bust in next 20-30 years? Really? I don't know how you can say that. There's a lot of money sloshing around but there's also a lot of financial liability. I think the whole model is a bit fragile and unsustainable but admittedly I'm no expert.

I think that is a real possibility or at least you might see 1-2 clubs fall down the leagues. Nothing is guaranteed and nothing is forever.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I agree it does depend on criteria. For example Arsenal are a hell of a lot closer to Utd now in terms of financial clout than we would otherwise have been. Wenger revolutionised Arsenal and put the club on a solid footing that will stand it in good stead for decades to come. 

We could easily have become mid table strugglers if it wasn't for Wenger.

We are one of the safest clubs in the league now, self sustaining and not reliant on any external finances - well not as dependent as others that's for sure.

Clubs like Liverpool, Everton and Spurs haven't reached the same level of stability and without sounding too dramatic they have uncertain futures.
		
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Sean you baffle me sometimes.

You are knowhere need Utd in terms of financial clout if your club have no intention of spending it.

Pogba is a total waste of money at 100 million plus but someone is willing at Utd to spend big to deliver trophies.
Arsenal and Arsene will never spend 100 million so its irrelevant how much money you have in the bank.

Imo and in my experience 99.9% of supporters want success and trophies,coming top 4 and 1/4 finals of the C/L just doesn't sit well with me as success.

By all means be financially secure for decades but that's not what football is about.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Fergie is undoubtebly the greatest PL manager we've seen.

Putting a balanced view across with regards Wenger, to me he HAS been superb and 2nd to Fergie, but, imo, he's had his day and he's the reason they haven't won the PL or CL in recent years.
		
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:clap:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Can't see any PL team going bust in next 20-30 years? Really? I don't know how you can say that. There's a lot of money sloshing around but there's also a lot of financial liability. I think the whole model is a bit fragile and unsustainable but admittedly I'm no expert.

I think that is a real possibility or at least you might see 1-2 clubs fall down the leagues. Nothing is guaranteed and nothing is forever.
		
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Another answer about finances and nothing about trophies, 
We're discussing Football not the FTSE 100.


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## Fish (Aug 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Should be competing , playing attractive football and being in the mix yes.
		
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So happy not to win if you come between 2nd-4th and played attractive football!



sawtooth said:



			It will be nice to win but you have to be realistic. Yes Leicester did it last year but we all know that sort of thing happens once in a blue moon.
		
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Well it does with Arsenal as well!



sawtooth said:



			Arsenal were close last year as runners up and might go one better this year if we have less injury problems.
		
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So 1 (ONE) better will mean 3rd at best then as the clubs that massively underperformed won't repeat that poor season as they are already strengthening their squads and some of those players are in pre-season friendlies already, but where are your new signings?  You didn't statistically improve last season from any previous season/s so you'll stand still at best, again!


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## Hobbit (Aug 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Fergie is undoubtebly the greatest PL manager we've seen.

Putting a balanced view across with regards Wenger, to me he HAS been superb and 2nd to Fergie, but, imo, he's had his day and he's the reason they haven't won the PL or CL in recent years.
		
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That pretty much nails it for me.

I'd also add that Fergie also recognised when to go. Wenger is blinkered in that respect.


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## Kellfire (Aug 4, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			I'd also add that Fergie also recognised when to go.
		
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Then stayed another few seasons leaving his successor with an awful squad and high expectations. He then pushed for his buddy, an appointment very few fans wanted, for the job and made it even worse.

Yes he won a league in his last season but he didn't leave us in a good place. He could've/should've gone a few years earlier on the back of the first Champions League final loss to Barca in my opinion.


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## Fish (Aug 4, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			That pretty much nails it for me.

I'd also add that Fergie also recognised when to go. Wenger is blinkered in that respect.
		
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I think Fergie was very lucky in that last season, he should have gone the year before, but he got a real squeeze and then left poor Moysey with a load of knackered garbage.


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## freddielong (Aug 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Another answer about finances and nothing about trophies, 
We're discussing Football not the FTSE 100.
		
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He was answering a specific point you raised about finances, you should probably read your own posts at some point.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 4, 2016)

freddielong said:



			He was answering a specific point you raised about finances, you should probably read your own posts at some point.
		
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He actually avoided the football question twice and focussed on finances, pherhaps you can read the posts and answer the points he ignored.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Clubs like Liverpool, Everton and Spurs haven't reached the same level of stability and without sounding too dramatic they have uncertain futures.
		
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One has just built a new stand, increasing capacity by 8,000+, with outline planning permission for another stand being extended.

One has a spade in the ground to build a new stadium of around 60k.

One is on about its 3rd attempt to move out of it's stadium, sorry ground.

Arent these the type of things that can make a club more stable, by having increased customers, therefore more money to spend..........and doing what Arsenal did. Maybe we just need the right guy in the team manager/club accountant position to pay it off a bit earlier.No wonder he's one of the best paid managers, with his dual job.

Stable = accepting, CL money mediocrity?


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 4, 2016)

Fish said:



			I think Fergie was very lucky in that last season, he should have gone the year before, but he got a real squeeze and then left poor Moysey with a load of knackered garbage.
		
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I'd second that.  I'd also put Mourinho, for all his flaws, ahead of Wenger as a manager, but Fergie is without doubt the best by some distance in the modern era (God it pained me to type that!).


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## sawtooth (Aug 4, 2016)

Top managers in PL

Unlimited spending

1. Fergie
2. Mourinho
3, Wenger

Restricted spending

1. Wenger
2. Fergie
3. Mourinho


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Top managers in PL

Unlimited spending

1. Fergie
2. Mourinho
3, Wenger

Restricted spending

1. Wenger
2. Fergie
3. Mourinho
		
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:rofl:

That's a quality bit of fishing 

Can you show me where on the trophies or winners medals it mentions money spent ?


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## Stuart_C (Aug 4, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Can't possibly publicly comment. 

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Haha you did didnt yer!! 

i always knew you had a soft spot for Rooneh.....


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 4, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha you did didnt yer!! 

i always knew you had a soft spot for Rooneh.....
		
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Special request by the lad. Wembley Sunday too.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 4, 2016)

P



pbrown7582 said:



			Special request by the lad. Wembley Sunday too.
		
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That auld chestnut eh


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## Papas1982 (Aug 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Top managers in PL

Unlimited spending

1. Fergie
2. Mourinho
3, Wenger

Restricted spending

1. Wenger
2. Fergie
3. Mourinho
		
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When arsenal had money (pre emirates) I'd probably agree with the order. 

But since the new stadium, with just PL counting, you have had no success, So financial struggles aside you shouldn't be on the list. 

For the record, Ranieri wins the second list hands down, irrespective of past or future success. I'd also put moyes at everton above wenger if financial constraints count.


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## sawtooth (Aug 4, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			When arsenal had money (pre emirates) I'd probably agree with the order. 

But since the new stadium, with just PL counting, you have had no success, So financial struggles aside you shouldn't be on the list. 

For the record, Ranieri wins the second list hands down, irrespective of past or future success. I'd also put moyes at everton above wenger if financial constraints count.
		
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I hear what you say and it's really only a comparison between these 3. Just illustrating that it's not a level playing field so that needs to be taken into account when determining who is "best".

Moyes, Allardyce, and others would be top of their own category I am sure because they both have done managed clubs extremely well during the PL years.

Let's not forget Wengers achievements though, 3 PL titles, 6 FA cups ( most successful manager in this comp of all time) invincibles, etc.

Yes the second half of his career has less silverware but in my eyes is just as impressive qualifying for CL YoY and competing on all fronts whilst the clubs real priority was financing the new ground.
We are exiting that phase now and the team will be even more competitive in the years to come.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Let's not forget Wengers achievements though, 3 PL titles, 6 FA cups ( most successful manager in this comp of all time) invincibles, etc.

Yes the second half of his career has less silverware but in my eyes is just as impressive qualifying for CL YoY and competing on all fronts whilst the clubs real priority was financing the new ground.
We are exiting that phase now and the team will be even more competitive in the years to come.
		
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Actually agree with what you say above, 

However, to be more competitive surely that means win the PL and at least CL final as repeating top 4 and CL 1/4 Finals for the next 5-10 years would not progress.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I hear what you say and it's really only a comparison between these 3. Just illustrating that it's not a level playing field so that needs to be taken into account when determining who is "best".

Moyes, Allardyce, and others would be top of their own category I am sure because they both have done managed clubs extremely well during the PL years.

Let's not forget Wengers achievements though, 3 PL titles, 6 FA cups ( most successful manager in this comp of all time) invincibles, etc.

Yes the second half of his career has less silverware but in my eyes is just as impressive qualifying for CL YoY and competing on all fronts whilst the clubs real priority was financing the new ground.*
We are exiting that phase now and the team will be even more competitive in the years to come.*

Click to expand...

I believe you have been saying that for a good couple of years now - is it the same as Article 50 and takes a good couple of years to exit ? 

It's just more excuses - Leicester blew all your money excuses out of the window


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## One Planer (Aug 4, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I believe you have been saying that for a good couple of years now - is it the same as Article 50 and takes a good couple of years to exit ? 

*It's just more excuses - Leicester blew all your money excuses out of the window*

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Not very often Phil and I agree but that is spot on right there :thup:


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## Papas1982 (Aug 4, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I believe you have been saying that for a good couple of years now - is it the same as Article 50 and takes a good couple of years to exit ? 

It's just more excuses - Leicester blew all your money excuses out of the window
		
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I agree with you re it being the same excuses year on year, but people (not just on here) keep bringing up Leicester. It was a freak of nature. Beating everyone with that yardstick is they same as calling people fools for working for 50 years because Jim and Sue down the road one the lottery.

For me, fabulous as it is, it was much Like Greece winning Euros or everton getting top 4 years ago. Its a one off and normality will resume, so hoping for it for your club would be naive.


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## One Planer (Aug 4, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree with you re it being the same excuses year on year, but people (not just on here) keep bringing up Leicester. It was a freak of nature. Beating everyone with that yardstick is they same as calling people fools for working for 50 years because Jim and Sue down the road one the lottery.

For me, fabulous as it is, it was much Like Greece winning Euros or everton getting top 4 years ago. Its a one off and normality will resume, so hoping for it for your club would be naive.
		
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The point is Leicester is they didn't buy the league. They won it through teamwork.

You're right, they may never win it again, but they proved it can be done without buying the league.


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## sawtooth (Aug 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Actually agree with what you say above, 

However, to be more competitive surely that means win the PL and at least CL final as repeating top 4 and CL 1/4 Finals for the next 5-10 years would not progress.
		
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Thats true and I think it's a realistic goal to win either the PL or reach the CL within the next 5 years. Although I wouldn't bet on Wenger being manager beyond the next 2-3 years.

The club however will be perfectly set up for someone else to come in and take over.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 4, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree with you re it being the same excuses year on year, but people (not just on here) keep bringing up Leicester. It was a freak of nature. Beating everyone with that yardstick is they same as calling people fools for working for 50 years because Jim and Sue down the road one the lottery.

For me, fabulous as it is, it was much Like Greece winning Euros or everton getting top 4 years ago. Its a one off and normality will resume, so hoping for it for your club would be naive.
		
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What Leicester showed is 

You can get top quality world class players without spending multimillions 

You can mould those top quality players along with decent players into a very good team that plays great football

That the right talented manager can build that team without the need of a sugar daddy and can apply the correct tactics and set up to beat the top teams to win a title 

It maybe a one off and won't happen again but they proved that it can happen and that Arsenal constantly blaming money and injuries is just a poor excuse for them constantly failing to win the title when in good positions and constantly being nothing but also rans in the CL


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 4, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What Leicester showed is 

You can get top quality world class players without spending multimillions 

You can mould those top quality players along with decent players into a very good team that plays great football

That the right talented manager can build that team without the need of a sugar daddy and can apply the correct tactics and set up to beat the top teams to win a title 

It maybe a one off and won't happen again but they proved that it can happen and that Arsenal constantly blaming money and injuries is just a poor excuse for them constantly failing to win the title when in good positions and constantly being nothing but also rans in the CL
		
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Agree with everything except the Sugar Daddy, they are owned by a billionaire and are still being investigated for financial irregularities, their spend was no were near the big lads but what was spent was provided by him.
It wasn't done on a shoe string.
Doesn't detract from Ranieri and his ability though.


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## sawtooth (Aug 4, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What Leicester showed is 

You can get top quality world class players without spending multimillions 

You can mould those top quality players along with decent players into a very good team that plays great football

That the right talented manager can build that team without the need of a sugar daddy and can apply the correct tactics and set up to beat the top teams to win a title 

It maybe a one off and won't happen again but they proved that it can happen and that Arsenal constantly blaming money and injuries is just a poor excuse for them constantly failing to win the title when in good positions and constantly being nothing but also rans in the CL
		
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You are missing one very important ingredient in the Leicester success story - good fortune. 

Whilst they were a fantastic team last year and they very much deserved to win they were fortunate with injuries. This was probably due in part to not having to play European games midweek, they won't have that luxury next year. I read somewhere that the amount of changes they made to their starting 11 in a season was much lower than the norm and that was a key part of their success IMO.

Arsenal in contrast probably made more changes to the starting 11 than anyone else ( at a guess).  Thats just how it goes and there's not much you can do about it.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 4, 2016)

While it appears that there is a lot of focus on Arsenal here, many of the same comments could be levied on most sides with the exceptions perhaps of United, Chelsea and City who have perhaps dominated in reason years. What of the likes of Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal (of course) etc who have all bought players and managers in and yet cannot find a way to win the PL and in most cases get CL football. On that last count, I still think 16 (or is it now 17) consecutive qualification years is a might impressive. 

It would be brilliant to see the likes of Liverpool return to their glory years, Everton to come good again and Spurs to give Arsenal a battle to be top dogs in north London. Add in the odd surprise package and it would make the PL far more rivetting which is why Leicester last year seemed to catch the imagination. I fear we'll be back to the usual City United Arsenal Chelsea domination yet again this year


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 4, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree with you re it being the same excuses year on year, but people (not just on here) keep bringing up Leicester. It was a freak of nature. Beating everyone with that yardstick is they same as calling people fools for working for 50 years because Jim and Sue down the road one the lottery.

For me, fabulous as it is, it was much Like Greece winning Euros or everton getting top 4 years ago. Its a one off and normality will resume, so hoping for it for your club would be naive.
		
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Spot on, as great as it was, you cant use it as an example of the pathway to choose for PL champions success.

I can see Mourinho now saying to Ed Woodward - right, go and buy me a French midfielder for 5mill, a French winger for 250k, and a Villa reject winger, and ex. Fleetwood player...........


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			You are missing one very important ingredient in the Leicester success story - good fortune. 

Whilst they were a fantastic team last year and they very much deserved to win they were fortunate with injuries. This was probably due in part to not having to play European games midweek, they won't have that luxury next year. I read somewhere that the amount of changes they made to their starting 11 in a season was much lower than the norm and that was a key part of their success IMO.

Arsenal in contrast probably made more changes to the starting 11 than anyone else ( at a guess).  Thats just how it goes and there's not much you can do about it.
		
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Arsenal were top at new year and then over the next 8 weeks dropped like a stone with no European games being played 

It's just more excuses - if the issue is with injuries why does Wenger persist with players who are constantly injured - why hasn't he gone out and bought cover for players who get injured 

When Giroud went a couple months without scoring was that because of injuries ? Ozil , Sanchez all still around , back four still the same - injuries is a poor excuse


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			You are missing one very important ingredient in the Leicester success story - good fortune. 

Whilst they were a fantastic team last year and they very much deserved to win they were fortunate with injuries. This was probably due in part to not having to play European games midweek, they won't have that luxury next year. I read somewhere that the amount of changes they made to their starting 11 in a season was much lower than the norm and that was a key part of their success IMO.

Arsenal in contrast probably made more changes to the starting 11 than anyone else ( at a guess).  Thats just how it goes and there's not much you can do about it.
		
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Rather than claiming Leicester were lucky, should you not be more concerned about the fact that for more than a few years, Arsenal's challenge falls apart at the same time of the season and for the same reasons?  It doesn't seem to happen at a number of other clubs.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 4, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			While it appears that there is a lot of focus on Arsenal here, many of the same comments could be levied on most sides with the exceptions perhaps of United, Chelsea and City who have perhaps dominated in reason years. What of the likes of Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal (of course) etc who have all bought players and managers in and yet cannot find a way to win the PL and in most cases get CL football. On that last count, I still think 16 (or is it now 17) consecutive qualification years is a might impressive. 

It would be brilliant to see the likes of Liverpool return to their glory years, Everton to come good again and Spurs to give Arsenal a battle to be top dogs in north London. Add in the odd surprise package and it would make the PL far more rivetting which is why Leicester last year seemed to catch the imagination. I fear we'll be back to the usual City United Arsenal Chelsea domination yet again this year
		
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You could do it overnight.

Lets introduce a new investment capping scheme, for arguments sake we'll call it "financial fair play" , and with Arsenal, City, United, Liverpool, Spurs, Newcastle, West ham, Chelsea, Sunderland and possibly Everton in future all playing in 50k+ stadiums and just surviving on gate receipts and equal telly money, I'm sure we would have lots of changes in the PL winners and CL qualifiers changing every year - it would be great.:thup: Clubs with smaller gates/resources could still upset the apple cart by good management and equal telly money with the traditional big boys, so the likes of Stoke, Southampton, Villa etc may also have a chance.


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## One Planer (Aug 4, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			You could do it overnight.

Lets introduce a new investment capping scheme, for arguments sake we'll call it "financial fair play" , and with Arsenal, City, United, Liverpool, Spurs, Newcastle, West ham, Chelsea, Sunderland and possibly Everton in future all playing in 50k+ stadiums and just surviving on gate receipts and equal telly money, I'm sure we would have lots of changes in the PL winners and CL qualifiers changing every year - it would be great.:thup: Clubs with smaller gates/resources could still upset the apple cart by good management and equal telly money with the traditional big boys, so the likes of *Stoke*, Southampton, Villa etc may also have a chance.
		
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No they wouldn't


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 4, 2016)

One Planer said:



			No they wouldn't 

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Sorry, I meant the giants of the potteries - Stone - my mistake.


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## sawtooth (Aug 4, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Rather than claiming Leicester were lucky, should you not be more concerned about the fact that for more than a few years, Arsenal's challenge falls apart at the same time of the season and for the same reasons?  It doesn't seem to happen at a number of other clubs.
		
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I guess because Arsenal are consistently in contention YoY that you notice it more with Arsenal. 

The one year recently that Liverpool were close their challenge fell apart too. Same for Spurs last year but because both of those clubs don't consistently threaten to win the league they aren't serial offenders like Arsenal.

You could say that Arsenal are victims of their own success in that regard. Maybe it would be better to fall away to mid table and lie low for a while then come back and mount a serious challenge every 5 years? ;-)


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## sawtooth (Aug 4, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			You could do it overnight.

Lets introduce a new investment capping scheme, for arguments sake we'll call it "financial fair play" , and with Arsenal, City, United, Liverpool, Spurs, Newcastle, West ham, Chelsea, Sunderland and possibly Everton in future all playing in 50k+ stadiums and just surviving on gate receipts and equal telly money, I'm sure we would have lots of changes in the PL winners and CL qualifiers changing every year - it would be great.:thup: Clubs with smaller gates/resources could still upset the apple cart by good management and equal telly money with the traditional big boys, so the likes of Stoke, Southampton, Villa etc may also have a chance.
		
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I like that idea. 

Bring in a minimum quota of English players while you are at it so we can improve the national team as well.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I guess because Arsenal are consistently in contention YoY that you notice it more with Arsenal. 

The one year recently that Liverpool were close their challenge fell apart too. Same for Spurs last year but because both of those clubs don't consistently threaten to win the league they aren't serial offenders like Arsenal.

You could say that Arsenal are victims of their own success in that regard. Maybe it would be better to fall away to mid table and lie low for a while then come back and mount a serious challenge every 5 years? ;-)
		
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In the last 10 years Arsneal have been 10 points, 12, 7, 16, 19, 12, 11, 18, 4, 21, 24 behind the winners. 
Or 154 points.
Or 15.4 per season.

The fact you consider that challenging is the very crux of your problem. If you're seriously happy to just watch CL every season, then to a point i can respect that. But to continue to suggest that you have a chance of anything else just looks foolish.


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## sawtooth (Aug 4, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			In the last 10 years Arsneal have been 10 points, 12, 7, 16, 19, 12, 11, 18, 4, 21, 24 behind the winners. 
Or 154 points.
Or 15.4 per season.

The fact you consider that challenging is the very crux of your problem. If you're seriously happy to just watch CL every season, then to a point i can respect that. But to continue to suggest that you have a chance of anything else just looks foolish.
		
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Interesting how we view things differently, I see It that if Arsenal were to have won just 4 more games each season then they would have been champions 6 more times. Not even 4 games as we have tended to lose against the top 4 more often than not and those games are 6 pointers.

Fine margins indeed.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Interesting how we view things differently, I see It that if Arsenal were to have won just 4 more games each season then they would have been champions 6 more times. Not even 4 games as we have tended to lose against the top 4 more often than not and those games are 6 pointers.

Fine margins indeed.
		
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So it's not bad luck, it's your inability to contend with the teams around you, that must be the fault of the manager then, not having the tactical ability or building a good enough squad to beat your rivals.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Interesting how we view things differently, I see It that if Arsenal were to have won just 4 more games each season then they would have been champions 6 more times. Not even 4 games as we have tended to lose against the top 4 more often than not and those games are 6 pointers.

Fine margins indeed.
		
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I think if we looked into the results against the big teams it would show that's exactky where you do lose it. But those "just four wins" need to come from the teams that invariably win the league and that for me sums it up. You are far and away the safest bet for top 4 besue you team is full of very good players. Lose one an another replaces them. But not enough stars to win the league. The romantic in me would like to see Wenger win it once more and ride off into the sunset. My sensible head says unfortunately i think the pockets of noise will grow year on year.


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## sawtooth (Aug 4, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			I think if we looked into the results against the big teams it would show that's exactky where you do lose it. But those "just four wins" need to come from the teams that invariably win the league and that for me sums it up. You are far and away the safest bet for top 4 besue you team is full of very good players. Lose one an another replaces them. But not enough stars to win the league. The romantic in me would like to see Wenger win it once more and ride off into the sunset. My sensible head says unfortunately i think the pockets of noise will grow year on year.
		
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Yes but don't forget that the PL winners have (almost exclusively) come from Utd, City and Chelsea.

It really isn't a shock to lose out to those teams due to the imbalance in finances available to strengthen the team.

Real failure is when Arsenal consistently lose out to those outside the big 3. 

Just our luck that a season where Wengers consistency gives us yet another chance   (and have the beating of the big 3) a 5000/1 shot like Leicester put together something really special. 

Now that you really can't make up.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yes but don't forget that the PL winners have (almost exclusively) come from Utd, City and Chelsea.

It really isn't a shock to lose out to those teams due to the imbalance in finances available to strengthen the team.

Real failure is when Arsenal consistently lose out to those outside the big 3. 

*Just our luck* that a season where Wengers consistency gives us yet another chance   (and have the beating of the big 3) a 5000/1 shot like Leicester put together something really special. 

Now that you really can't make up.
		
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That really sums it up i'm afraid. Still believing it was your misfortune. Interestingly, if Leicester had performed as most would have expected then the likes of City and spurs would have gotten 5 more extra points and suddenly you're third in the league......


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yes but don't forget that the PL winners have (almost exclusively) come from Utd, City and Chelsea.

It really isn't a shock to lose out to those teams due to the imbalance in finances available to strengthen the team.

Real failure is when Arsenal consistently lose out to those outside the big 3. 

Just our luck that a season where Wengers consistency gives us yet another chance   (and have the beating of the big 3) a 5000/1 shot like Leicester put together something really special. 

Now that you really can't make up.
		
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Your points for runners up was one of the lowest ever and some seasons wouldn't of made top 4, 
You were lucky the other big sides had bad seasons, not unlucky.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			It really isn't a shock to lose out to those teams due to the imbalance in finances available to strengthen the team.
		
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But isn't the point that there is not that much of an imbalance in the finances *available.

*It is more a case of whether or not the Club (be it Wenger or the Board) are prepared to spend enough of those available funds to mount a serious challenge for the title.


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## sawtooth (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Your points for runners up was one of the lowest ever and some seasons wouldn't of made top 4, 
You were lucky the other big sides had bad seasons, not unlucky.
		
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Comparing point totals from one season to another is pretty meaningless tbh.

It's a bit like comparing scores from 2 rounds of golf, one on a calm sunny day and another when it's cold, wet and windy.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Comparing point totals from one season to another is pretty meaningless tbh.

It's a bit like comparing scores from 2 rounds of golf, one on a calm sunny day and another when it's cold, wet and windy.
		
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Yet you bang on about 18yrs of CL football, :rofl:
You can't have it both ways using stats to back your point up, then denying them when they prove you wrong


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## sawtooth (Aug 5, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			That really sums it up i'm afraid. Still believing it was your misfortune. Interestingly, if Leicester had performed as most would have expected then the likes of City and spurs would have gotten 5 more extra points and suddenly you're third in the league......
		
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I disagree, don't you think Spurs wanted to finish above Arsenal regardless if Spurs could catch Leicester? You're implying that both City and Spurs threw 5 points. 

Lets be clear, Leicester were outstanding last year and swept the big clubs aside (except for Arsenal who managed to beat them home and away but I digress). Leicester deserved to win it!!

All I am saying is that they had the rub of the green when it came to injuries. Not moaning or being bitter just stating the fact.

Good luck to Leicester I say and but wish better fortune for Arsenal next season.


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## garyinderry (Aug 5, 2016)

I have to say I am disappointed with Arsenal's activity in the transfer market yet again.   went out and bought Xhaka nice and early but didn't push on. 


Same old Higuain rubbish,  Lacazzette being dragged out (if we want him we should have him already) , centre half needed to cover the beanpole.

Man united got their business done quickly apart from the pogba deal which seems to be done but not finalised due to the ridiculousness of the whole transfer.

We have money from last years window too so just spend it for heavens sake.


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## sawtooth (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Yet you bang on about 18yrs of CL football, :rofl:
You can't have it both ways using stats to back your point up, then denying them when they prove you wrong
		
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Sorry I don't get the point you are making. 

18 successive years of CL is an achievement

Finishing top 4 is an achievement any year regardless of the points total. A lower points total indicates to me that the league was more competitive that year. 

Some might actually argue that it was a bigger achievement finishing top 4 last year than in previous years for that reason.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Sorry I don't get the point you are making. 

18 successive years of CL is an achievement

Finishing top 4 is an achievement any year regardless of the points total. A lower points total indicates to me that the league was more competitive that year. 

Some might actually argue that it was a bigger achievement finishing top 4 last year than in previous years for that reason.
		
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I used previous seasons to prove my point and you said I can't compare one season against another as they are as diferent as 2 rounds of golf in diferent weather.
You then prove your point by using 18 previous seasons.
Either you can or you can't use previous seasons. You can't pick and choose which stats are ok and which are not.
18 consecutive seasons is outstanding and something I could dream of Everton doing, luckily your low points tally from last season kept the run going as in previous years 71 points wouldn't of got you CL Football.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Sorry I don't get the point you are making. 

18 successive years of CL is an achievement

Finishing top 4 is an achievement any year regardless of the points total. A lower points total indicates to me that the league was more competitive that year. 

Some might actually argue that it was a bigger achievement finishing top 4 last year than in previous years for that reason.
		
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It maybe an achievement but it's not a success to celebrate - there is no trophy to parade around the city , no medals for the players , no final for the fans to enjoy 

I'm not sure if you are trying to persuade yourself that there is no issues right now with Arsenal or persuade everyone else 

If Arsenal don't win it appears it's because of - injuries and money 

When a team does win with a squad that is weaker than Arsenals it's all down to good fortune 

Arsenal every single year at the same point every single year fall apart - Jan through to March - they normally go from leading to fighting for a top 4 and fall out of the CL at the same stage ever single year - you can keep celebrating making CL but it's hollow when the club is just a bystander 

If Wenger is the genuis you portray then why hasn't he tackled this - why hasn't he gone out and bought players that will cover all these injuries , why does he persist with the injured players , why does he persist without a clear goalscorer or dominating CB and then have some depth behind , why does he continuely lose to the other big teams - it's a decade plus now of it happening 

Arsenal are one of the biggest clubs in the world - surely you and they want more that to just qualify. The reason why Arsenal aren't winning the title or at the very least taking it to the last week and getting into CL is because of the manager - he will not change he way of working and thinking which is safety first but it doesn't win titles. Arsenal have a lovely brand new shiny stadium - shame it's empty of top titles


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## sawtooth (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I used previous seasons to prove my point and you said I can't compare one season against another as they are as diferent as 2 rounds of golf in diferent weather.
You then prove your point by using 18 previous seasons.
Either you can or you can't use previous seasons. You can't pick and choose which stats are ok and which are not.
18 consecutive seasons is outstanding and something I could dream of Everton doing, luckily your low points tally from last season kept the run going as in previous years 71 points wouldn't of got you CL Football.
		
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Sorry but I still don't get what you mean. 

Top 4 with 60 points one year is worth the same as 80 points in another. It's all relative surely?


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## Hobbit (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Interesting how we view things differently, I see It that if Arsenal were to have won just 4 more games each season then they would have been champions 6 more times. Not even 4 games as we have tended to lose against the top 4 more often than not and those games are 6 pointers.

Fine margins indeed.
		
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Papas quoted actual figures, facts. And you answer it with might have beens, fairy tales.

I think it was Einstein who said something like, if you continue to do something the same way you're going to get the same result.

What do you think Arsenal need to do to to win something? And that's what do Arsenal need to do, not what do you need the other clubs to do, like lose. 

As things stand, Arsenal will continue to entertain, but where is that final, orgasmic trophy win/buzz going to come from?

Being satisfied with second best is very, very poor.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2016)

Why are people SO bothered about where Arsenal finish in the league? 
The longer they go without winning the league the better.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Sorry but I still don't get what you mean. 

Top 4 with 60 points one year is worth the same as 80 points in another. It's all relative surely?
		
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The point is, you keep saying you's are unlucky, facts show you were very lucky, other teams having a bad season masked your issues.


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## sawtooth (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			The point is, you keep saying you's are unlucky, facts show you were very lucky, *other teams having a bad season* masked your issues.
		
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Other teams that found it difficult in a tough season. Arsenal finished above these teams yet we have the issues? That's a very strange perspective.


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## Slime (Aug 5, 2016)

The best thing for Arsenal would be to finish 5th at best. 
Then maybe, and only maybe, they'll wake up and smell the whiff of failure .............................. and do something about it!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Other teams that found it difficult in a tough season. Arsenal finished above these teams yet we have the issues? That's a very strange perspective.
		
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They have all recognised they had problems and addressed them, your hoping you get a bit of luck as apparently that's all your missing.


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## sawtooth (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			They have all recognised they had problems and addressed them, your hoping you get a bit of luck as apparently that's all your missing.
		
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Ha Ha you know that's not what I am saying.

We have added a few but still trying to bring in a couple more. I think something will be announced in the next week or so.

Chuba Akpom might be one to watch this year and from what I saw of Xhaka and Holding so far , looks very encouraging.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Ha Ha you know that's not what I am saying.

We have added a few but still trying to bring in a couple more. I think something will be announced in the next week or so.

Chuba Akpom might be one to watch this year and from what I saw of Xhaka and Holding so far , looks very encouraging.
		
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Putting your hopes into two kids is exactly what Arsenals issues are - other teams are looking for the established internationals or players who are on the verge of breaking through and are happy to pay that little bit extra - City buy Sane and Jesus - it may cost them around Â£50 mil for the pair but both players are in that top level for youngsters 

Akpom spent a year at Hull and scored 3 in 35 games - not exactly a record in a lower league that shouts out 

It just shows the level of ambition being shown - it may be financially sound not to risk Â£20 plus on a youngster but it doesn't help the team not to chase those sort of players 

Only have to look at Martial - Wenger could have had him but just turned away because of the money


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## sawtooth (Aug 5, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Putting your hopes into two kids is exactly what Arsenals issues are - other teams are looking for the established internationals or players who are on the verge of breaking through and are happy to pay that little bit extra - City buy Sane and Jesus - it may cost them around Â£50 mil for the pair but both players are in that top level for youngsters 

Akpom spent a year at Hull and scored 3 in 35 games - not exactly a record in a lower league that shouts out 

It just shows the level of ambition being shown - it may be financially sound not to risk Â£20 plus on a youngster but it doesn't help the team not to chase those sort of players 

Only have to look at Martial - Wenger could have had him but just turned away because of the money
		
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Is that the same Martial that couldn't get a game at the Euro's? Behind in the pecking order  Benzema, Giroud and Cignac ?

Not saying Martial won't come good but he has a bit to prove to justify his hefty price tag.


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## Paperboy (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Is that the same Martial that couldn't get a game at the Euro's? Behind in the pecking order  Benzema, Giroud and Cignac ?

Not saying Martial won't come good but he has a bit to prove to justify his hefty price tag.
		
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Sean do you honestly rate Giroud? Think he's ok but nothing special, seems to go missing for the tough parts of the season!


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## freddielong (Aug 5, 2016)

Paperboy said:



			Sean do you honestly rate Giroud? Think he's ok but nothing special, seems to go missing for the tough parts of the season!
		
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Giroud is a very good old fashioned number 10 his hold up play,flicks and lay offs are excellent he is the best I have ever seen at the cushioned headerlay off but he just isn't a number 9 and that is what Arsenal need.


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## stokie_93 (Aug 5, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Putting your hopes into two kids is exactly what Arsenals issues are - other teams are looking for the established internationals or players who are on the verge of breaking through and are happy to pay that little bit extra - City buy Sane and Jesus - it may cost them around Â£50 mil for the pair but both players are in that top level for youngsters 

Akpom spent a year at Hull and scored 3 in 35 games - not exactly a record in a lower league that shouts out 

It just shows the level of ambition being shown - it may be financially sound not to risk Â£20 plus on a youngster but it doesn't help the team not to chase those sort of players 

Only have to look at Martial - Wenger could have had him but just turned away because of the money
		
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I thought that Alex Iwobi looked a great prospect when playing last season, where as Akpom as pointed out above has not done an awful lot.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Is that the same Martial that couldn't get a game at the Euro's? Behind in the pecking order  Benzema, Giroud and Cignac ?

Not saying Martial won't come good but he has a bit to prove to justify his hefty price tag.
		
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Is this the same Benzema who didn't get selected by France for the Euros so never played one minute.

Stick to Hockey mate your talking rubbish


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## Jates12 (Aug 5, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Is this the same Benzema who didn't get selected by France for the Euros so never played one minute.

Stick to Hockey mate your talking rubbish
		
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:rofl::rofl: Martial is a decent player and Arsenal could do with someone like him. If they wanted to win the league they would of gone all out and bought Higuain, Kante and a Centre Half and i reckon they would of walked it. But with their current squad they will struggle, again, for goals and finish 3rd or 4th.


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## sawtooth (Aug 5, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Is this the same Benzema who didn't get selected by France for the Euros so never played one minute.

Stick to Hockey mate your talking rubbish
		
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We all know Benzema was left behind for non football reasons. As discussed on here a while ago I was told that Benzema would have played instead of Giroud.

I've never played hockey it's what girls play isn't it? ;-)


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## Dan2501 (Aug 5, 2016)

Benzema would definitely get in the team ahead of Giroud and Martial, although tbf, Lacazette should have got in ahead of both of them too. Benzema was definitely not dropped for footballing reasons, he's class.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2016)

Breaking News: 
James Milner (aka Mr Reliable) retires from international football. 
Big Sam as no chance of succeeding now.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Sorry I don't get the point you are making. 

*18 successive years of CL is an achievement*

Finishing top 4 is an achievement any year regardless of the points total. A lower points total indicates to me that the league was more competitive that year. 

Some might actually argue that it was a bigger achievement finishing top 4 last year than in previous years for that reason.
		
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No, qualifying isn't an achievement, actually winning it is an achievement.  

We may not have been in it for 18 continuous years, but we've won it (when we probably shouldn't  ), lost a final (that we probably should have won :angry: ) and won a Europa League :thup:.  As opposed to being in it 18 continuous years  and losing one final.  

I can tell you which I prefer.


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## sawtooth (Aug 5, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			No, qualifying isn't an achievement, actually winning it is an achievement.  

We may not have been in it for 18 continuous years, but we've won it (when we probably shouldn't  ), lost a final (that we probably should have won :angry: ) and won a Europa League :thup:.  As opposed to being in it 18 continuous years  and losing one final.  

I can tell you which I prefer. 

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Me too. 

The lesser but genuine achievement and not the fake ones purchased with someone's millions. Null and void in my book.


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## Hobbit (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Me too. 

The lesser but genuine achievement and not the fake ones purchased with someone's millions. Null and void in my book.
		
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Sorry Sean but that is the most perverse thing I've read from a football supporter. Really, you'd rather not win?

I am totally gobsmacked. So what's the difference between the purchases Arsenal have made, and those of Chelsea, Utd and City? There isn't a difference. Arsenal have just spent less, that's all. Irrespective of the spend, where's the ambition?


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Me too. 

The lesser but genuine achievement and not the fake ones purchased with someone's millions. Null and void in my book.
		
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The squad might have been purchased with Abramovich's money, the achievement was earned by the players on the pitch, whether you like it or not, and to say otherwise demeans you, not them.  The bitterness is palpable.

And again, an Arsenal fan bangs on about Chelsea's money whilst the Arsenal manager is quite prepared to up the price to sell to Chelsea.  The hypocrisy is laughable.


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## sawtooth (Aug 5, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Sorry Sean but that is the most perverse thing I've read from a football supporter. Really, you'd rather not win?

I am totally gobsmacked. So what's the difference between the purchases Arsenal have made, and those of Chelsea, Utd and City? There isn't a difference. Arsenal have just spent less, that's all. Irrespective of the spend, where's the ambition?
		
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Winning the right way is very important. I would absolutely hate it if a new man replaced Wenger and then used Kroenke's billions, started buying Pogba's for Â£100M and Messi's for Â£200M.  I like it the way it is, spend the money we have from our football generated activities and see how far that gets us. If we win then great , it will be worth something. Buying the league would not make me happy. 

There is a big difference between the Arsenal way and the Chelsea way (and City way) thank you very much.

Sorry if that sounds perverse but that's how I see it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Winning the right way is very important. I would absolutely hate it if a new man replaced Wenger and then used Kroenke's billions, started buying Pogba's for Â£100M and Messi's for Â£200M.  I like it the way it is, spend the money we have from our football generated activities and see how far that gets us. If we win then great , it will be worth something. Buying the league would not make me happy. 

There is a big difference between the Arsenal way and the Chelsea way (and City way) thank you very much.

Sorry if that sounds perverse but that's how I see it.
		
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:rofl: so the Â£250 Million and 4th highest spending in the PL over the last 5 years is OK but the 3 above is wrong, brilliant, you couldn't make it up.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Winning the right way is very important. I would absolutely hate it if a new man replaced Wenger and then used Kroenke's billions, started buying Pogba's for Â£100M and Messi's for Â£200M.  I like it the way it is, spend the money we have from our football generated activities and see how far that gets us. If we win then great , it will be worth something. Buying the league would not make me happy. 

There is a big difference between the Arsenal way and the Chelsea way (and City way) thank you very much.

Sorry if that sounds perverse but that's how I see it.
		
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If you had won the league you would have actually bought it just for a lot less money than some others and that's a fact.

Leicester have actually proved you don't need massive names with massive ego,s but I believe it wont happen again so either spend big or win very little if anything at all.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			:rofl: so the Â£250 Million and 4th highest spending in the PL over the last 5 years is OK but the 3 above is wrong, brilliant, you couldn't make it up.
		
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Of course you can, he does.


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## garyinderry (Aug 5, 2016)

We really really really need the season to start.


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## sawtooth (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			:rofl: so the Â£250 Million and 4th highest spending in the PL over the last 5 years is OK but the 3 above is wrong, brilliant, you couldn't make it up.
		
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Yes but where did the money come from that's the point you missed.


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## sawtooth (Aug 5, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			If you had won the league you would have actually bought it just for a lot less money than some others and that's a fact.

Leicester have actually proved you don't need massive names with massive ego,s but I believe it wont happen again so either spend big or win very little if anything at all.
		
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I think you missed the point too Tony.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			We really really really need the season to start.   

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We really do,some people's obsession with Arsenal is slightly worrying &#128584;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yes but where did the money come from that's the point you missed.
		
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A Billionaire just like yours, nothing illegal.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			A Billionaire just like yours, nothing illegal.
		
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Nope,but everyone likes to whinge about Chelsea & City's owners splashing the cash. 
And now you & others are moaning because Arsenals owner isn't splashing the cash. 
Come on Paul I'm sure even you can see how hypocritical this is&#128563;.

Do you even realise that you're just making the same points over & over & over again?? 
What are you hoping to achieve? The Arsenal fans agree with you just to shut you up? &#129300;


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## sawtooth (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			A Billionaire just like yours, nothing illegal.
		
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Except we spend what we make from football.  That's how it should be IMO.


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## One Planer (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Except we spend what we make from football.  That's how it should be IMO.
		
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Football has changed. Simple as that.

While I admire the principle behind what Arsenal do, the modern game of billionaire owners has changed the playing field so to speak.

FFP was/is a joke. If it wasn't how come City can still spend Â£100M+ and other club's spending mass amounts.

Times have changed and, while Arsenal have the capacity to spend the money they have made from football (wasn't it over Â£100M) , they choose not to.

Question is why?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Nope,but everyone likes to whinge about Chelsea & City's owners splashing the cash. 
And now you & others are moaning because Arsenals owner isn't splashing the cash. 
Come on Paul I'm sure even you can how hypocritical this is&#128563;.

Do you even realise that you're just making the same points over & over & over again?? 
What are you hoping to achieve? The Arsenal fans agree with you just to shut you up? &#129300;
		
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I don't care what Arsenal/Chelsea/Man Utd or any other club spend good luck to them.
It is trying to understand how they see themselves moving forward, others are spending to improve, but to some that is unfair.

I haven't heard fans of any other team moaning about the spends of rivals and the bad luck they get compared to Arsenal fans.

Chelsea had an absolute shocker of a season and are simply sorting it out and getting on with it, no blaming off field antics etc or City spending more.

Finally, please don't question what I post or how often it is a forum were I can post what and how often I like so long as I stay within the forum rules, please feel free to block or ignore me


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Except we spend what we make from football.  That's how it should be IMO.
		
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But not reality, so you have to accept what other clubs do and if they are more succesful then so be it,


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I don't care what Arsenal/Chelsea/Man Utd or any other club spend good luck to them.
It is trying to understand how they see themselves moving forward, others are spending to improve, but to some that is unfair.

I haven't heard fans of any other team moaning about the spends of rivals and the bad luck they get compared to Arsenal fans.

Chelsea had an absolute shocker of a season and are simply sorting it out and getting on with it, no blaming off field antics etc or City spending more.

Finally, please don't question what I post or how often it is a forum were I can post what and how often I like so long as I stay within the forum rules, please feel free to block or ignore me
		
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So you've never heard other fans ,or even other teams players blaming other teams spending for their own failures?? Wow&#128563;

Evertons new owner as got a few bob,obviously he'll be splashing the cash on big name players & challenging for major honours?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			So you've never heard other fans ,or even other teams players blaming other teams spending for their own failures?? Wow&#128563;

Evertons new owner as got a few bob,obviously he'll be splashing the cash on big name players & challenging for major honours?
		
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No, I've read bitter jealous people moan about it, especially about City and Chelsea, good luck to them, normal fans care about winning trophies.

If Evertons new owner spends his money and we get Trophies, brilliant,

What's the point of having these owners if they don't spend.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			But not reality, so you have to accept what other clubs do and if they are more succesful then so be it,
		
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Ok Paul let's forget about Arsenal for 1min (if possible)
Who are the top class signings that the likes of Spurs,Everton,Liverpool & Southampton have made to try & really kick on this season? 
All got wealthy owners & recieve their share of the TV money,so why aren't they trying to sign the cream of the crop?


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## sawtooth (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			But not reality, so you have to accept what other clubs do and if they are more succesful then so be it,
		
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And I do.

Only when supporters of those clubs come on here and give it the big'un about Arsenal/Wengers "failings" that these petty arguments develop.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			No, I've read bitter jealous people moan about it, especially about City and Chelsea, good luck to them, normal fans care about winning trophies.

If Evertons new owner spends his money and we get Trophies, brilliant,

What's the point of having these owners if they don't spend.
		
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So do you expect him to spend big?


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## freddielong (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			a billionaire just like yours, nothing illegal.
		
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we (arsenal ) do not have a billionaire sugar daddy we have a billionaire majority shareholders.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			No, I've read bitter jealous people moan about it, especially about City and Chelsea, good luck to them, normal fans care about winning trophies.

If Evertons new owner spends his money and we get Trophies, brilliant,

What's the point of having these owners if they don't spend.
		
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so you've read the bitter jealous people moaning about it on here then &#128077;&#127995;

That's not the way they want success &#128580;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			So do you expect him to spend big?
		
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I expect him to support Koeman in who he believes we need to sign, if Koeman thinks Pogba should sign for Everton and make a difference, yes I expect us to put in a bid, Pogba and his agent will laugh, but that shouldn't mean we accept mediocrity.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			so you've read the bitter jealous people moaning about it on here then &#128077;&#127995;

That's not the way they want success &#128580;
		
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People on here have moaned about abramovich etc, but not blamed abramovich directly for their team failing unlike Arsenal fans, never Wengers fault,


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2016)

freddielong said:



			we (arsenal ) do not have a billionaire sugar daddy we have a billionaire majority shareholders.
		
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Who apparently have no issue giving millions to Wenger.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			People on here have moaned about abramovich etc, but not blamed abramovich directly for their team failing unlike Arsenal fans, never Wengers fault,
		
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They have tho Paul,you must have conveniently missed those posts.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			They have tho Paul,you must have conveniently missed those posts.
		
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Or you are conveniently making it up to point score.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I expect him to support Koeman in who he believes we need to sign, if Koeman thinks Pogba should sign for Everton and make a difference, yes I expect us to put in a bid, Pogba and his agent will laugh, but that shouldn't mean we accept mediocrity.
		
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Everton & Liverpool both replaced their managers in a hope to kick on & challenge.
Thats all well & good,but you need to sign some top class players.
Klopp hasn't made 1 signing that looks any better than what Brenda (or the transfer comity) were making before he arrived. 
Everton will definitely improve this season under Koeman,but let's be honest that wouldn't be hard,Martinez is terrible imo.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Or you are conveniently making it up to point score.
		
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Yeah maybe Paul &#128580;
Grow up &#128077;&#127995;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yeah maybe Paul &#128580;
Grow up &#128077;&#127995;
		
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I'm not the one moaning about other peoples post, you had a sly dig asking if I'd conveniently missed some posts, so I responded in kind.
Please feel free to find the posts I conveniently missed or don't throw accusations at me.
Happy to debate with anyone, you took it down a notch.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I'm not the one moaning about other peoples post, you had a sly dig asking if I'd conveniently missed some posts, so I responded in kind.
Please feel free to find the posts I conveniently missed or don't throw accusations at me.
Happy to debate with anyone, you took it down a notch.
		
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So obviously you'll be asking why other teams (including your own)aren't signing world class players,instead of obsessing over Arsenal? 

Suppose it gets you a few brownie points tho &#128563;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			So obviously you'll be asking why other teams (including your own)aren't signing world class players,instead of obsessing over Arsenal? 

Suppose it gets you a few brownie points tho &#128563;
		
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Once again you can't post without a dig, Me, Sawtooth and others have discussed Arsenal, if he wishes to stop the discussion he only has to say or not answer, it is you coming on making smart ar5e comments, nobody is making you post, please feel free to discuss any PL subject in an adult manner, 

Everton are being linked with buying and selling allsorts of big name players, just a few weeks ago we were told on here we'd signed Mata, I'm not saying we're unlucky because of injuries or other teams had better luck, we underperformed and the club has addressed it, hopefully we will make some signings and keep the players we've got.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Once again you can't post without a dig, Me, Sawtooth and others have discussed Arsenal, if he wishes to stop the discussion he only has to say or not answer, it is you coming on making smart ar5e comments, nobody is making you post, please feel free to discuss any PL subject in an adult manner, 

Everton are being linked with buying and selling allsorts of big name players, just a few weeks ago we were told on here we'd signed Mata, I'm not saying we're unlucky because of injuries or other teams had better luck, we underperformed and the club has addressed it, hopefully we will make some signings and keep the players we've got.
		
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And if not obviously you'll make LOTS of posts showing your disapproval at the clubs lack of ambition &#128077;&#127995;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			And if not obviously you'll make LOTS of posts showing your disapproval at the clubs lack of ambition &#128077;&#127995;
		
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I'll post whatever I deem fit as and when the situation arises.
If he improves on 11th I will be content in his first season.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I disagree, don't you think Spurs wanted to finish above Arsenal regardless if Spurs could catch Leicester? You're implying that both City and Spurs threw 5 points. 

Lets be clear, Leicester were outstanding last year and swept the big clubs aside (except for Arsenal who managed to beat them home and away but I digress). Leicester deserved to win it!!

All I am saying is that they had the rub of the green when it came to injuries. Not moaning or being bitter just stating the fact.

Good luck to Leicester I say and but wish better fortune for Arsenal next season.
		
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I wasn't implying either team threw the games. I'm simply saying that if your apparent bad luck (leciester being good) hadn't occurred, then you'd likely have had to teams above you.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I'll post whatever I deem fit as and when the situation arises.
If he improves on 11th I will be content in his first season.
		
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So you'd seriously be happy with 10th? 

And you question Arsenal's ambition&#129300;

As you were &#128077;&#127995;


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## freddielong (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Who apparently have no issue giving millions to Wenger.
		
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The money we spend is not money given to us by the shareholders it's revenue.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			So you'd seriously be happy with 10th? 

And you question Arsenal's ambition&#129300;

As you were &#128077;&#127995;
		
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Koeman has a 5yr contract and needs time to get his squad and his way of playing.
So, yes I'd be content (note never said happy) with 10th next season as it shows improvement, 2 year I'd like to challenge 8-6 and 3rd year 6-4.
Arsenal are an established top 4 Club who imo have been 2-3 players short of winning the PL and if that was Everton I would want the board to spend whatever it took to take us to the title.
Everton over the same period have been 4-17 so not exactly consistent.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 5, 2016)

freddielong said:



			The money we spend is not money given to us by the shareholders it's revenue.
		
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I think the point people are trying to make is that even if we all accept that you were hard done by when the sugar daddies came in. You're at a Point where you can now compete. Yet choose not too. That is why we query the ambition. Wengers first third in the prem was out standing. His second admirable, but his third is IMO and some arsenal fans as has been seen by crowd complaints, in danger of becoming a let down.


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## freddielong (Aug 5, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			I think the point people are trying to make is that even if we all accept that you were hard done by when the sugar daddies came in. You're at a Point where you can now compete. Yet choose not too. That is why we query the ambition. Wengers first third in the prem was out standing. His second admirable, but his third is IMO and some arsenal fans as has been seen by crowd complaints, in danger of becoming a let down.
		
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I don't think we can financially


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Koeman has a 5yr contract and needs time to get his squad and his way of playing.
So, yes I'd be content (note never said happy) with 10th next season as it shows improvement, 2 year I'd like to challenge 8-6 and 3rd year 6-4.
Arsenal are an established top 4 Club who imo have been 2-3 players short of winning the PL and if that was Everton I would want the board to spend whatever it took to take us to the title.
Everton over the same period have been 4-17 so not exactly consistent.
		
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So 10th this season & then 8th the following season would be OK. Wow. 
So basically Martinez massively under achieving as made it pretty easy for Koeman.!

On that basis Conte is laughing &#128514;


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## Papas1982 (Aug 5, 2016)

freddielong said:



			I don't think we can financially
		
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You soent how much on Sanchez and ozil? Both had massive impact on the pitch, but with what looks like another window without a big by to match them. How long before they wanna go elsewhere.

i agree that you might not be able to spend 250m in a window. But how many ones for the future do you really need? 

Look ok at your ideal starting line up this season. How many of them have come through from wenger nurturing them as youngsters?

a decade a go he excelled in picking the future star, now all clubs have great scouts (except Liverpool, they just wait a year and buy form us). It's often said the best time to spend is at a time of strength. This season was your season with the upper hand and it appears to have been wasted IMO.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			So 10th this season & then 8th the following season would be OK. Wow. 
So basically Martinez massively under achieving as made it pretty easy for Koeman.!

On that basis Conte is laughing &#128514;
		
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OK, please tell me what we should be doing and which teams are going to go backwards to allow us to walk up the league.
Obviously I'd like to be totally wrong and finish top 4, others would like me to be totally wrong and see us relegated.
Martinez had us at 5th his first season with a points total that would of seen us runners-up last season, he finished 11th the last 2 seasons, not exactly stability or improvement was it.


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## freddielong (Aug 5, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			You soent how much on Sanchez and ozil? Both had massive impact on the pitch, but with what looks like another window without a big by to match them. How long before they wanna go elsewhere.

i agree that you might not be able to spend 250m in a window. But how many ones for the future do you really need? 

Look ok at your ideal starting line up this season. How many of them have come through from wenger nurturing them as youngsters?

a decade a go he excelled in picking the future star, now all clubs have great scouts (except Liverpool, they just wait a year and buy form us). It's often said the best time to spend is at a time of strength. This season was your season with the upper hand and it appears to have been wasted IMO.
		
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I don't see why the last season was our great chance we had a poor season like everyone else, we were slated at the start saying we wouldn't finish top five, come the end we ate slated for only finishing second.

We have already spent an Alexis size fee on a player.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 5, 2016)

freddielong said:



			I don't see why the last season was our great chance we had a poor season like everyone else, we were slated at the start saying we wouldn't finish top five, come the end we ate slated for only finishing second.

We have already spent an Alexis size fee on a player.
		
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with all due respect, figures are growing. 30m on a player now isn't a big signing, that's a CL squad player fee. 

The he reason I see last season as your chance is that you had the better season. You were still better than those others, so it was something to sell yourself as a club on. You could claim to be league contenders as you'd been runners up. Where as next season could be like many before, CL participants.....


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## freddielong (Aug 5, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			with all due respect, figures are growing. 30m on a player now isn't a big signing, that's a CL squad player fee. 

The he reason I see last season as your chance is that you had the better season. You were still better than those others, so it was something to sell yourself as a club on. You could claim to be league contenders as you'd been runners up. Where as next season could be like many before, CL participants.....
		
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Â£30M is a big signing for a club that adheres the financial fair play laws, even Leicester made up a company to sponsor their stadium last season to allow them to spend more money



That's your opinion and that's fine it's only valuable to you.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			OK, please tell me what we should be doing and which teams are going to go backwards to allow us to walk up the league.
Obviously I'd like to be totally wrong and finish top 4, others would like me to be totally wrong and see us relegated.
Martinez had us at 5th his first season with a points total that would of seen us runners-up last season, he finished 11th the last 2 seasons, not exactly stability or improvement was it.
		
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Maybe the teams that came backwards to allow Leicester to walk up the league&#128077;&#127995;.

Couldn't Arsenal say the same? 

Martinez had you 5th,but you'd take 6th in 3 seasons under Koeman?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Maybe the teams that came backwards to allow Leicester to walk up the league&#128077;&#127995;.

Couldn't Arsenal say the same? 

Martinez had you 5th,but you'd take 6th in 3 seasons under Koeman?
		
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Yes I'd take 6th in 3 seasons if it's progress, if he does that then I'd hope he be signed on a longer contract and be mixing it top 4 after that, would rather have the long term progression than a new manager every 3-4 years.

Freddie has stated Arsenal had a bad season last season and still managed 2nd surely even you can see progression must be 1st, the chances of all the big 4 having another bad season is virtually impossible.


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## freddielong (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Yes I'd take 6th in 3 seasons if it's progress, if he does that then I'd hope he be signed on a longer contract and be mixing it top 4 after that, would rather have the long term progression than a new manager every 3-4 years.

Freddie has stated Arsenal had a bad season last season and still managed 2nd surely even you can see progression must be 1st, the chances of all the big 4 having another bad season is virtually impossible.
		
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For me progression would be a sustained challenge whether we finish first or not


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2016)

freddielong said:



			For me progression would be a sustained challenge whether we finish first or not
		
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I genuinely don't understand that, surely you want to see the return of winning titles not just challenging for them?


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## Papas1982 (Aug 5, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Â£30M is a big signing for a club that adheres the financial fair play laws, even Leicester made up a company to sponsor their stadium last season to allow them to spend more money



That's your opinion and that's fine it's only valuable to you.
		
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with the new tv deal, 30m on one player is a fee that every premier league club can afford. If your team is scared of paying that much out a couple of times then it won't be long til you are caught. No point to the new stadium if the benefits aren't reaped.


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## freddielong (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I genuinely don't understand that, surely you want to see the return of winning titles not just challenging for them?
		
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Only one team can win the league, and in the end it can come down to a bad referee or an injury at the wrong time, progress from where Arsenal are at the moment would be a sustained fight for the title, obviously I want to win.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Is that the same Martial that couldn't get a game at the Euro's? Behind in the pecking order  Benzema, Giroud and Cignac ?

Not saying Martial won't come good but he has a bit to prove to justify his hefty price tag.
		
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That's because Deschamps is a water carrier merchant.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Winning the right way is very important. I would absolutely hate it if a new man replaced Wenger and then used Kroenke's billions, started buying *Pogba's for Â£100M* and Messi's for Â£200M.  I like it the way it is, spend the money we have from our football generated activities and see how far that gets us. If we win then great , it will be worth something. Buying the league would not make me happy. 

There is a big difference between the Arsenal way and the Chelsea way (and City way) thank you very much.

Sorry if that sounds perverse but that's how I see it.
		
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It's all relative to % income when you generate nearly twice as much you can spend twice as much,


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Is that the same Martial that couldn't get a game at the Euro's? Behind in the pecking order  Benzema, Giroud and Cignac ?

Not saying Martial won't come good but he has a bit to prove to justify his hefty price tag.
		
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Maybe with France struggling to score when it mattered ( no surprise with Giroud upfront ) they should have got him on the pitch

The "hefty price tag" is what these sort of players go for these days - you either take the risk or you try with players like Akpom - what sort of players do you think the top teams are taking a risk on - the Â£30 mil teenager or the guy who was on loan at Hull ? Arsenal prefer the teenager on loan whilst the Â£30mil player goes to a Chelsea or City or Utd and proves his worth


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Yes I'd take 6th in 3 seasons if it's progress, if he does that then I'd hope he be signed on a longer contract and be mixing it top 4 after that, would rather have the long term progression than a new manager every 3-4 years.

Freddie has stated Arsenal had a bad season last season and still managed 2nd surely even you can see progression must be 1st, the chances of all the big 4 having another bad season is virtually impossible.
		
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Arsenal last 4 seasons
4,4,3,2

Yet you'd be happy with your team going from 11th to 10th &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 5, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Only one team can win the league, and in the end it can come down to a *bad referee* or an injury at the wrong time, progress from where Arsenal are at the moment would be a sustained fight for the title, obviously I want to win.
		
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:rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe with France struggling to score when it mattered ( no surprise with Giroud upfront ) they should have got him on the pitch

The "hefty price tag" is what these sort of players go for these days - you either take the risk or you try with players like Akpom - what sort of players do you think the top teams are taking a risk on - the Â£30 mil teenager or the guy who was on loan at Hull ? Arsenal prefer the teenager on loan whilst the Â£30mil player goes to a Chelsea or City or Utd and proves his worth
		
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And Liverpool sign Mane,Manninger & some 30yr old Pole.
You optimistic about the new season Phil?


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 5, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			No, qualifying isn't an achievement, actually winning it is an achievement.  

We may not have been in it for 18 continuous years, but we've won it (when we probably shouldn't  ), lost a final (that we probably should have won :angry: ) and won a Europa League :thup:.  As opposed to being in it 18 continuous years  and losing one final.  

I can tell you which I prefer. 

Click to expand...

Didnt know you were a Liverpool fan also.........or same record as us.

Was Blakey on the bus last time arsenal paraded a euro trophy?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Arsenal last 4 seasons
4,4,3,2

Yet you'd be happy with your team going from 11th to 10th &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;
		
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Obviously you don't wish to be involved in serious debate or can't be bothered to read answers when you ask questions, have you ever wondered why 99% of your posts go unanswered.


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## Hobbit (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Obviously you don't wish to be involved in serious debate or can't be bothered to read answers when you ask questions, have you ever wondered why 99% of your posts go unanswered.
		
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Who said that?


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 5, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Didnt know you were a Liverpool fan also.........or same record as us.

Was Blakey on the bus last time arsenal paraded a euro trophy?
		
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Nah, it was probably horse drawnâ€¦â€¦.. 

Never thought about the matching records until you mentioned it.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Obviously you don't wish to be involved in serious debate or can't be bothered to read answers when you ask questions, have you ever wondered why 99% of your posts go unanswered.
		
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Yet again Paul your post makes no sense &#128580;

Life must be a real struggle


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## One Planer (Aug 5, 2016)

OK guys enough of the baiting and counter baiting.

It would be a shame to have to lock this before the season even starts.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 5, 2016)

Fwiw, I understand sawtooth(Sean's), view on the way he wants arsenal to win, and not just a billionaire blowing everyone else out the water. If one gave arsenal 800mill to spend in 2 years on the likes of messi, Ronald's etc they would win the league. Same for me, again, unless 10 others have them, then I'd want one. Slightly hypocritical, but I prefer the old school chances.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 5, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yet again Paul your post makes no sense &#128580;

Life must be a real struggle
		
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You have asked/stated twice that I would be happy with 10th next season.
I've explained and answered twice I have never said HAPPY said content if he shows progress and yet instead of reading my answers you take the mick and try and point score, 
It's not me struggling to keep up.
If you don't want answers and are purely on a wind up, please feel free to ignore me.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2016)

One Planer said:



			OK guys enough of the baiting and counter baiting.

It would be a shame to have to lock this before the season even starts.
		
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Sorry mate,but it really was getting like Groundhog Day. 

Yes Wenger needs to sign Messi & Ronaldo!

We get it &#128585;


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			You have asked/stated twice that I would be happy with 10th next season.
I've explained and answered twice I have never said HAPPY said content if he shows progress and yet instead of reading my answers you take the mick and try and point score, 
It's not me struggling to keep up.
If you don't want answers and are purely on a wind up, please feel free to ignore me.
		
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content1
k&#601;n&#712;t&#603;nt/
adjective
1.
in a state of peaceful happiness


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 5, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Fwiw, I understand sawtooth(Sean's), view on the way he wants arsenal to win, and not just a billionaire blowing everyone else out the water. If one gave arsenal 800mill to spend in 2 years on the likes of messi, Ronald's etc they would win the league. Same for me, again, unless 10 others have them, then I'd want one. Slightly hypocritical, but I prefer the old school chances.
		
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I don't think anyone doesn't understand the principle Peter, to a degree I agree with it, but to say that one team's achievements, won fairly and squarely on the pitch, don't count because the club has a rich benefactor is utterly ridiculous and frankly pathetic.  Some of the Gooners on here are so far up their own Arsenals about the moral high ground they believe they occupy that it beggars belief.


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## freddielong (Aug 5, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			:rofl:
		
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I don't understand why you are laughing are you not neurotypical


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## freddielong (Aug 5, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			And Liverpool sign Mane,Manninger & some 30yr old Pole.
You optimistic about the new season Phil?
		
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Don't ask him about Liverpool he only talks about Arsenal


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Don't ask him about Liverpool he only talks about Arsenal
		
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That's because everything is Rosie & the future is looking bright. 
Just like under Brenda. 

But I do hope that Wenger fails &#128513;


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## Hobbit (Aug 6, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			I don't think anyone doesn't understand the principle Peter, to a degree I agree with it, but to say that one team's achievements, won fairly and squarely on the pitch, don't count because the club has a rich benefactor is utterly ridiculous and frankly pathetic.  Some of the Gooners on here are so far up their own Arsenals about the moral high ground they believe they occupy that it beggars belief.
		
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Personally, I'm glad Sean explained his ethos yesterday, as it was driving me nuts trying to understand the logic of being a happy loser. Now, I feel it resembles a Monty Python sketch. Either the Black Knight guarding the bridge in the Holy Grail, or the Judian Suicide Squad in Life of Brian. 

As as for taking the higher moral ground whilst having the most expensive season tickets in the Prem...utterly laughable, and even more Python-esqu. In fact, the more I think about the absurdity of it, the more I'm wetting myself with laughter.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 7, 2016)

Mane put a very good performance in  yesterday, it was only a friendly but barca still had a very good side out. I wasn't too sure if Mane was what we needed but  if  he puts that type of performance in on a consistent basis this season I'll be happy.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 7, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Mane put a very good performance in  yesterday, it was only a friendly but barca still had a very good side out. I wasn't too sure if Mane was what we needed but  if  he puts that type of performance in on a consistent basis this season I'll be happy.
		
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For us he always showed up against the big teams. Think it'll go one of two ways for you. Either now he'll consider himself at the big club and you've got a star. Or he'll continue as was and you'll get 10 great games and the rest be left scratching your head. 

For the money you paid, he was probably the least upsetting player to lose.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 7, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			For us he always showed up against the big teams. Think it'll go one of two ways for you. Either now he'll consider himself at the big club and you've got a star. Or he'll continue as was and you'll get 10 great games and the rest be left scratching your head. 

For the money you paid, he was probably the least upsetting player to lose.
		
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I'm used to watching players  have 10 good games a season

Transfer fees are through the roof at the minute for most players, we've just got to accept it unfortunately.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 7, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm used to watching players  have 10 good games a season

Transfer fees are through the roof at the minute for most players, we've just got to accept it unfortunately.
		
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Yeah I just meant I was happier with his fee, than for Lallana or Loren (gotta love hindsight)!

as long as one of his 10 isn't against us I'll be happy. Still can't believe the bloke took Fowlers record. Now he was a striker!


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## Stuart_C (Aug 7, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Yeah I just meant I was happier with his fee, than for Lallana or Loren (gotta love hindsight)!

as long as one of his 10 isn't against us I'll be happy. Still can't believe the bloke took Fowlers record. Now he was a striker!
		
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Lovren has shown he can be a top defender, I just think he needs a solid partner as fonte was.  

I think he'll shine with Matip next to him.

Lallana is frustrating, technically he's a very good footballer and he grafts at times but he tends to just go through the motions if you know what I mean. He also needs to add goals to his game.

It doesn't count, Fowler's was against a proper team, not like Mane's  against a pub team


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## Papas1982 (Aug 7, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Lovren has shown he can be a top defender, I just think he needs a solid partner as fonte was.  

I think he'll shine with Matip next to him.

Lallana is frustrating, technically he's a very good footballer and he grafts at times but he tends to just go through the motions if you know what I mean. He also needs to add goals to his game.

It doesn't count, Fowler's was against a proper team, not like Mane's  against a pub team
		
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Haha!

tbf at their peaks I know I certainly wouldn't be choosing Mane.
I think as a youngster I used to like fowler as he was God and we had Le God.

for us Lallana was never really a scorer, we had lambert for that and Lallana got half or more of his assists through him. He's playing a different role with you, less playmaker and more goals are expected. I think Klopp will like him as he does tend to get stuck in. Certainly sink or swim this season for him though.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 7, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Haha!

tbf at their peaks I know I certainly wouldn't be choosing Mane.
I think as a youngster I used to like fowler as he was God and we had Le God.

*for us Lallana was never really a scorer, *we had lambert for that and Lallana got half or more of his assists through him. He's playing a different role with you, less playmaker and more goals are expected. I think Klopp will like him as he does tend to get stuck in. Certainly sink or swim this season for him though.
		
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That's his biggest issue for me. He has chances  but just doesn't take enough of them. He improved last season from his 1st season  but there's no excuses now, he needs to score 10 imo.

I can understand why Mane and Wijnaldum have been brought in 25 league goals between iirc last season, add them to coutinho's 12  and there's 37 goals from midfield all being well. Wouldn't have been my picks though.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 7, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			That's his biggest issue for me. He has chances  but just doesn't take enough of them. He improved last season from his 1st season  but there's no excuses now, he needs to score 10 imo.

I can understand why Mane and Wijnaldum have been brought in 25 league goals between iirc last season, add them to coutinho's 12  and there's 37 goals from midfield all being well. Wouldn't have been my picks though.
		
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i think your main issue is getting a striker in that the manager trusts. Even if your midfield get you 50 goals. Sturridge may get you 10 in the 12 games he plays. But benteke and origi don't strike me as the answer.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 7, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			i think your main issue is getting a striker in that the manager trusts. Even if your midfield get you 50 goals. Sturridge may get you 10 in the 12 games he plays. But benteke and origi don't strike me as the answer.
		
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Sturridge cannot be relied upon, Origi has improved a lot and is much better than he's given credit for. Ings and Firmino will score goals too.

Benteke was never a Liverpool player and it's been confirmed he's not got a future with us.


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## larmen (Aug 7, 2016)

Has everybody picked 'their Leicester' yet and put a wager on?

I had a look at William Hill and in the premiership the odds are quite low. I wanted to put Â£5 on my favourite German team, but they restrict the bet to a Â£1000 max win these days. Is that because of what Leicester did?


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 7, 2016)

Another trophy to the tally..... 

And #pogback happy days.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 8, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Another trophy to the tally..... 

And #pogback happy days. 

Click to expand...

Pffft, the charity shield doesn't count 

Buying a player back for Â£100m you let go for buttons shouldn't be celebrated, I wonder which managers fault  that was


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 8, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Pffft, the charity shield doesn't count 

Buying a player back for Â£100m you let go for buttons shouldn't be celebrated, I wonder which managers fault  that was 

Click to expand...


Even the greatest make mistakes.


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## Kellfire (Aug 8, 2016)

There's also the fact that Pogba didn't look as good as he thought he was at the time and his attitude stank. Hopefully he's sorted that but I'm not so sure. He's one that really seems to walk the line between overly arrogant and self confident.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 8, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Another trophy to the tally..... 

And #pogback happy days. 

Click to expand...

And all with the manager you didn't want&#128515;


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 8, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			And all with the manager you didn't want&#55357;&#56835;
		
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yep but JM is here now and the season is about to start so its go time and anyone in a red shirt gets supported once there on the pitch/in the dugout.


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## stokie_93 (Aug 8, 2016)

larmen said:



			Has everybody picked 'their Leicester' yet and put a wager on?

I had a look at William Hill and in the premiership the odds are quite low. I wanted to put Â£5 on my favourite German team, but they restrict the bet to a Â£1000 max win these days. Is that because of what Leicester did?
		
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Â£5 on my own team to win the league and Â£10 on us to qualify for Europe.

Just got to wait till May for my winnings


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## Stuart_C (Aug 8, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Â£5 on my own team to win the league and Â£10 on us to qualify for Europe.

Just got to wait till May for my winnings 

Click to expand...

I'm going to back Arsenal to win it and then cash out around February just before the bad luck hits them and they capitulate like they always have done over the last 10yrs. Easy money.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 8, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			yep but JM is here now and the season is about to start so its go time and anyone in a red shirt gets supported once there on the pitch/in the dugout.
		
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That's the attitude, no splitters.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 8, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			yep but JM is here now and the season is about to start so its go time and anyone in a red shirt gets supported once there on the pitch/in the dugout.
		
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Or until results go against you :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Aug 8, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Or until results go against you :rofl:
		
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Hopefully by mid September


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 8, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Hopefully by mid September 

Click to expand...

Was hoping for this weekend tbh :rofl:


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## Hobbit (Aug 8, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm going to back Arsenal to win it and then cash out around February just before the bad luck hits them and they capitulate like they always have done over the last 10yrs. Easy money.
		
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Damn! Never thought of that. I went for a nailed on 4th.


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## GG26 (Aug 8, 2016)

Just think about it - the team that won the league by 10 points are 33/1 to win it this time and they now have a deeper squad.


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## freddielong (Aug 8, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm going to back Arsenal to win it and then cash out around February just before the bad luck hits them and they capitulate like they always have done over the last 10yrs. Easy money.
		
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Ha ha 

I'm going to back Liverpool and cash out in ........... Well ... juSt .................before ....oh yeah that won't work sorry


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 9, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Or until results go against you :rofl:
		
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Stuart_C said:



			Hopefully by mid September 

Click to expand...




pauldj42 said:



			Was hoping for this weekend tbh :rofl:
		
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:rofl:


:ears:


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 9, 2016)

Log a has signed then after all those column inches and TV hours dedicated will he, when, how much etc.

I wasn't overly impressed in the recent Euros and yes he was good, but far from a stand out and I remain unconvinced he'll set the PL alight. Jose is talking about building sides around him going forward but I really don't see it. Will he be value for money or a long term expensive dud?


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Ha ha 

*I'm going to back Liverpool and cash out in ........... Well ... juSt .................before ....oh yeah that won't work sorry*

Click to expand...

Very poor attempt at humour again eh Freddie?


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Log a has signed then after all those column inches and TV hours dedicated will he, when, how much etc.

I wasn't overly impressed in the recent Euros and yes he was good, but far from a stand out and I remain unconvinced he'll set the PL alight. Jose is talking about building sides around him going forward but I really don't see it. Will he be value for money or a long term expensive dud?
		
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Hopefully the latter 

I wonder if Ferguson and scholes will be as quick on the phone to him this morning congratulating him on his move as they were to slag him when the allegedly greatest manager decided he wasn't good enough for them?

Ferguson had form for getting rid of important players at the wrong time because of his personal issues with them.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 9, 2016)

Â£30m a year isn't that the same deal you have with Southampton? 

Who could you be talking about RVN becks Stam .....


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Hopefully the latter 

I wonder if Ferguson and scholes will be as quick on the phone to him this morning congratulating him on his move as they were to slag him when the allegedly greatest manager decided he wasn't good enough for them?

Ferguson had form for getting rid of important players at the wrong time because of his personal issues with them.
		
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Did that phone call really happen? 
Poor if it did. 

Didn't do Fergie much harm getting rid of certain players. 
If their attitude was wrong then he was right to ship them out. 

If Pogba stayed at UTD who would he have replaced in the team?


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## Kellfire (Aug 9, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Hopefully the latter 

I wonder if Ferguson and scholes will be as quick on the phone to him this morning congratulating him on his move as they were to slag him when the allegedly greatest manager decided he wasn't good enough for them?

Ferguson had form for getting rid of important players at the wrong time because of his personal issues with them.
		
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Pogba was nowhere near ready to come into the first team when he left Man Utd and his attitude was awful.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Did that phone call really happen? 
Poor if it did. 

Didn't do Fergie much harm getting rid of certain players. 
If their attitude was wrong then he was right to ship them out. 

If Pogba stayed at UTD who would he have replaced in the team?
		
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I can't be 100% certain it never but I wouldn't put it past him. He was a bully.

Getting rid of Stam wasn't the right decision iirc. Sometimes you've just got to put your personal differences aside for the good of the team/club, his mistake has  cost yernited Â£100m aswell as all the other dodgy deals him and his brother was involved in.

I think Ferguson done that to a few players, Keane,Stam,RVN beckham, Lee sharpe, Bebe........

I think Pogba was as good at the time as what they had in midfield (cleverly, Richardson etc) though I'm sure I'll be told otherwise.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 9, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I can't be 100% certain it never but I wouldn't put it past him. He was a bully.

Getting rid of Stam wasn't the right decision iirc. Sometimes you've just got to put your personal differences aside for the good of the team/club, his mistake has  cost yernited Â£100m aswell as all the other dodgy deals him and his brother was involved in.

I think Ferguson done that to a few players, Keane,Stam,RVN beckham, Lee sharpe, Bebe........

I think Pogba was as good at the time as what they had in midfield (cleverly, Richardson etc) though I'm sure I'll be told otherwise.
		
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Closet Manc?


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 9, 2016)

I think history has it that bringing Scholes back out of retirement finished off Pogba. So to answer the question an ageing and very short term Scholes replaced the youthful Pogba. Quite possibly correct for that season, I never watch a match with Man Utd in it unless it's against my own team, but a poor decision overall.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Closet Manc? 

Click to expand...

Definitely not!!

It's the old "keep your friends Close and your enemies closer"


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## freddielong (Aug 9, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Very poor attempt at humour again eh Freddie?
		
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I did apologise the analogy just didn't work with Liverpool as they are never in it.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

freddielong said:



			I did apologise the analogy just didn't work with Liverpool as they are never in it.
		
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That's common knowledge.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I can't be 100% certain it never but I wouldn't put it past him. He was a bully.

Getting rid of Stam wasn't the right decision iirc. Sometimes you've just got to put your personal differences aside for the good of the team/club, his mistake has  cost yernited Â£100m aswell as all the other dodgy deals him and his brother was involved in.

I think Ferguson done that to a few players, Keane,Stam,RVN beckham, Lee sharpe, Bebe........

I think Pogba was as good at the time as what they had in midfield (cleverly, Richardson etc) though I'm sure I'll be told otherwise.
		
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But maybe if he'd kept the players mentioned it would have caused problems.
Didn't he get rid of Sharpe because he liked to party a bit too much & Feegie was worried that it was rubbing off on Giggs?


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## Karl102 (Aug 9, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Pogba was nowhere near ready to come into the first team when he left Man Utd and his attitude was awful.
		
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I am sure he is one of the players who's agent dictated a lot of what went on. He and Fergie could be heard screaming at each other over contract disputes and Fergie never backed down. Yes there was the Scholes thing, but Scholes even then was the best midfielder the prem has ever seen, so who wouldn't want him in the team.
Mate close to Man Utd told me Pogba's mum still lives in Sale and he was always coming back, it was just a case of when.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

Bet Fergies fuming knowing how much Pogbas agent is making out of the deal &#128514;


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## Karl102 (Aug 9, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Bet Fergies fuming knowing how much Pogbas agent is making out of the deal &#128514;
		
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His nose will be redder than rudolphs and the expletives would see several infractions on here !!!


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## freddielong (Aug 9, 2016)

I think we have passed the point were players worth is important yes 100m is a stupid amount of money that Utd may or may not re coup, the only real questions are, can they afford it ? Does him improve the team ?

If its yes on both then go for it.


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## stokie_93 (Aug 9, 2016)

Karl102 said:



			I am sure he is one of the players who's agent dictated a lot of what went on. He and Fergie could be heard screaming at each other over contract disputes and Fergie never backed down. Yes there was the Scholes thing, but *Scholes even then was the best midfielder the prem has ever seen*, so who wouldn't want him in the team.
Mate close to Man Utd told me Pogba's mum still lives in Sale and he was always coming back, it was just a case of when.
		
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have a word.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			But maybe if he'd kept the players mentioned it would have caused problems.
Didn't he get rid of Sharpe because he liked to party a bit too much & Feegie was worried that it was rubbing off on Giggs?
		
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Yeah, Giggs turned out to be a really nice bloke as well


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			have a word.
		
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The best midfielder who couldn't tackle, great player though.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 9, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			The best midfielder who couldn't tackle, great player though.
		
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You sure you've not been out in the sun too long?


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## garyinderry (Aug 9, 2016)

Pogba's medical seemed to take forever yesterday.   were they giving him a going over top to toe?   Â£100 million on the line. 


Na, he was making a music video for Adidas.   


I still can't get my head around the size of the agents fee?


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah, Giggs turned out to be a really nice bloke as well 

Click to expand...

Good professional,he just liked having a go on his brothers Mrs &#128584;


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 9, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			Pogba's medical seemed to take forever yesterday.   were they giving him a going over top to toe?   Â£100 million on the line. 


Na, he was making a music video for Adidas.   


I still can't get my head around the size of the agents fee?
		
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adidas photoshoot was rumoured in LA last Thursday....


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## Karl102 (Aug 9, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			have a word.
		
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Just my opinion....

City just signed Stones for Â£47.5 mill.... 
Who are Eferton going to spent their money on ?!?!


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## stokie_93 (Aug 9, 2016)

Karl102 said:



			Just my opinion....

City just signed Stones for Â£47.5 mill.... 
Who are Eferton going to spent their money on ?!?!
		
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a very strong one at that! 
IMO Gerrard was a much better player and i'd probably put Keane, Viera and Ballack above Scholes too.

In regards to Everton, no one has been wanting to go there.
I'd be quite concerned as an Everton fan right now!


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## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			a very strong one at that! 
IMO Gerrard was a much better player and i'd probably put Keane, Viera and Ballack above Scholes too.

In regards to Everton, no one has been wanting to go there.
I'd be quite concerned as an Everton fan right now!
		
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i don't think the ballack we saw in the prem was close to the guy who performed in Germany. Keane and viera definitely got the crowds going with the performances as did Gerard. As premiership players they all maybe had the better attributes. But I think most of the worlds top footballers all raved about scholes. He was the engine room at Utd for many years and would have easily fit into the brilliant bar a side of a few years back. Not sure the others would have.

re Fergie letting good players leave. I think stam is the only one he regrets. All the others were replaced with future stars. No other manager has had such a long successful career so it's hard to guess how others would have dealt with them. Most other top managers if lucky preside over one era of players and therefor don't need to worry about the repercussions of player sales.

pogba as youngster through his toys out, scholes came in and won the league so hard to argue it was a bad decision.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 9, 2016)

Stones gone for Â£47.5m then, making him the 2nd most expensive defender of all-time. David Luiz and Stones make up almost Â£100m of central defenders, let that sink in.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

Karl102 said:



			Just my opinion....

City just signed Stones for Â£47.5 mill.... 
Who are Eferton going to spent their money on ?!?!
		
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Why is it that players can't wait to get out of Merseyside? ðŸ¤”


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

Karl102 said:



			Just my opinion....

City just signed Stones for Â£47.5 mill.... 
Who are Eferton going to spent their money on ?!?!
		
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Â£50m is a bargain for Stones.

I've just  heard they're in negotiations with Johnny Evans to replace Stones.


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## stokie_93 (Aug 9, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			i don't think the ballack we saw in the prem was close to the guy who performed in Germany. Keane and viera definitely got the crowds going with the performances as did Gerard. As premiership players they all maybe had the better attributes. But I think most of the worlds top footballers all raved about scholes. He was the engine room at Utd for many years and would have easily fit into the brilliant bar a side of a few years back. Not sure the others would have.
		
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Gerrard was a key factor in Liverpool nearly winning the title. I know Suarez and Sturridge were excellent but so was Gerrard so that's not true. 
Viera would've fit in easily, he was a better version of Yaya.

Keane was probably the only one that maybe wouldn't as the technical side of the game seems to be ever evolving. However saying that, although known for the physical side of his game he was a fantastic player too.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			i don't think the ballack we saw in the prem was close to the guy who performed in Germany. Keane and viera definitely got the crowds going with the performances as did Gerard. As premiership players they all maybe had the better attributes. But I think most of the worlds top footballers all raved about scholes. He was the engine room at Utd for many years and would have easily fit into the brilliant bar a side of a few years back. Not sure the others would have.

re Fergie letting good players leave. I think stam is the only one he regrets. All the others were replaced with future stars. No other manager has had such a long successful career so it's hard to guess how others would have dealt with them. Most other top managers if lucky preside over one era of players and therefor don't need to worry about the repercussions of player sales.

pogba as youngster through his toys out, scholes came in and won the league so hard to argue it was a bad decision.
		
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It's just cost yernited nearly Â£100m to buy him back, it's blatantly obvious it was a bad decision.


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## Karl102 (Aug 9, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Â£50m is a bargain for Stones.

I've just  heard they're in negotiations with Johnny Evans to replace Stones.
		
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Lmao They can have him for tuppence....


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## Kellfire (Aug 9, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			It's just cost yernited nearly Â£100m to buy him back, it's blatantly obvious it was a bad decision.
		
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He would maybe never have progressed as a player to the level he is now at United because his attitude stank and he wasn't getting games. So no, it can't be obvious unless you have seen a parallel universe where Pogba stayed.

----

Also, must laugh at someone saying Keane wasn't technically brilliant; he read the game as well as anyone and that's why, despite not being the biggest, strongest or fastest, he's been the best midfielder of his type in the Premier League era.

Scholes/Gerrard/Lampard will always cause arguments and rightly so, they're fantastic. For me Gerrard looks the more star player in highlight reels because he was surrounded by so much dross for large periods of his career. Scholes and Lampard were more consistent for me. I'd say Scholes, then Gerrard and then Lampard. But none of them is a bad player!

Ballack though? Ahahahahaa. Wait, seriously?


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## Karl102 (Aug 9, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			a very strong one at that! 
IMO Gerrard was a much better player and i'd probably put Keane, Viera and Ballack above Scholes too.

In regards to Everton, no one has been wanting to go there.
I'd be quite concerned as an Everton fan right now!
		
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Sorry, Scholes was ten times the player Gerrard was. If you asked every prem manager there has ever been who they would want out of the two, it would be Scholes every time. That includes the Liverpool managers


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Gerrard was a key factor in Liverpool nearly winning the title.
		
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He was also a key factor why they didn't win the title &#128514;


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

Neither could lace Lampards boots &#128077;&#127995;


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			He would maybe never have progressed as a player to the level he is now at United because his attitude stank and he wasn't getting games. So no, it can't be obvious unless you have seen a parallel universe where Pogba stayed.

----

Also, must laugh at someone saying Keane wasn't technically brilliant; he read the game as well as anyone and that's why, despite not being the biggest, strongest or fastest, he's been the best midfielder of his type in the Premier League era.

Scholes/Gerrard/Lampard will always cause arguments and rightly so, they're fantastic. For me Gerrard looks the more star player in highlight reels because he was surrounded by so much dross for large periods of his career. Scholes and Lampard were more consistent for me. I'd say Scholes, then Gerrard and then Lampard. But none of them is a bad player!

Ballack though? Ahahahahaa. Wait, seriously?
		
Click to expand...

Pogba was highly rated at the time by everybody at yernited and in Europe, his attitude was a concern but that can be managed.

I did have my hindsight T-shirt on at the time though.

We'll never know if he could've carried a side on his own like Gerrard did. One thing is Scholes was a great player.


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## Karl102 (Aug 9, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Neither could lace Lampards boots &#128077;&#127995;
		
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Who ?!?


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

Karl102 said:



			Lmao They can have him for tuppence....
		
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Â£18m apparently, The Ashley Williams deal is dead in the water.


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## Karl102 (Aug 9, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Pogba was highly rated at the time by everybody at yernited and in Europe, his attitude was a concern but that can be managed.

I did have my hindsight T-shirt on at the time though.
		
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I really can't say I've seen enough of Pogba, only read. Apparently he was a big part of Juventus successes last year. 
One thing is for sure, Utd desperately need quality in midfield. Have done for years now. They have paid the price for it... Hope he turns out to be a world beater....


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## stokie_93 (Aug 9, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Also, must laugh at someone saying Keane wasn't technically brilliant; he read the game as well as anyone and that's why, despite not being the biggest, strongest or fastest, he's been the best midfielder of his type in the Premier League era.

Scholes/Gerrard/Lampard will always cause arguments and rightly so, they're fantastic. For me Gerrard looks the more star player in highlight reels because he was surrounded by so much dross for large periods of his career. Scholes and Lampard were more consistent for me. I'd say Scholes, then Gerrard and then Lampard. But none of them is a bad player!

Ballack though? Ahahahahaa. Wait, seriously?
		
Click to expand...

In terms of Keane's technical ability he was no way near as all rounded as Gerrard, Scholes or Viera. 

Ballack was class mate.


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## Karl102 (Aug 9, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Â£18m apparently, The Ashley Williams deal is dead in the water.
		
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Seriously! 18 mil for him? I would give them Jones and Evans for that!


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## Dan2501 (Aug 9, 2016)

I thought Evans was going to Arsenal?

We're in for Lamine Kone, and can see the Williams deal being pushed through now. He's the sort of player we need.


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## Kellfire (Aug 9, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			In terms of Keane's technical ability he was no way near as all rounded as Gerrard, Scholes or Viera. 

Ballack was class mate.
		
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He wasn't as rounded as those three but he could do defensive things those three could only dream of. 

I always loved the Keane vs Vieira battles - neither would flinch. Except when Vieira wanted a cry and to hug Bergkamp in the tunnel.


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## Karl102 (Aug 9, 2016)

As much as like him and do t want him to leave Utd, Blind would be a great defender/midfielder to get.... Rumour has it him, Mata, Schweinsteiger and Rojo all on the way out....


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## stokie_93 (Aug 9, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			He wasn't as rounded as those three but he could do defensive things those three could only dream of. 

I always loved the Keane vs Vieira battles - neither would flinch. Except when Vieira wanted a cry and to hug Bergkamp in the tunnel. 

Click to expand...

Not disagreeing at all mate. Keane was a different monster defensively & I agree with you saying he was the best of his kind but in this modern day and age there really isn't many like him in the game anymore, it's evolved from then if you ask me.

Yeah they were brilliant, don't get rivalries like that anymore if you ask me. Everything is a bit more tame.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 9, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Â£50m is a bargain for Stones.

I've just  heard they're in negotiations with Johnny Evans to replace Stones.
		
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Another utd old boy........

Thought it was going to be ash Williams though?


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 9, 2016)

Karl102 said:



			As much as like him and do t want him to leave Utd, Blind would be a great defender/midfielder to get.... Rumour has it him, Mata, Schweinsteiger and Rojo all on the way out....
		
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If Everton Want to spend 18m drop rojo on there doorstep this afternoon.....


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## Dan2501 (Aug 9, 2016)

Williams has joined Everton pending a medical today. Â£12m.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 9, 2016)

If Stones reaches the potential he showed 2 seasons a go then it could be a good buy for City, but 47.5Mil is fantastic business for us and Barnsley, will be very pleased to get Williams for 12mil.


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## freddielong (Aug 9, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Why is it that players can't wait to get out of Merseyside? &#129300;
		
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Have you ever been?


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Have you ever been?
		
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Once &#128513;


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 9, 2016)

Stones out for a bonkers fee and Williams in for a quarter of it. Great business by Everton. Good luck to Stones and I genuinely hope he achieves his potential. Williams will give us a classic old fashioned centre half, stability and leadership. Good buy. 

Johnny Evans, no thanks.

Possible talk of us swapping Jags for Kone from Sunderland. I'd be happy with that. Jags has been really good for us but injuries are starting to kick in.

Come on Ronnie, go and buy Begovic next. Finally we are joining the fun.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Stones out for a bonkers fee and Williams in for a quarter of it. Great business by Everton. Good luck to Stones and I genuinely hope he achieves his potential. Williams will give us a classic old fashioned centre half, stability and leadership. Good buy. 

Johnny Evans, no thanks.

Possible talk of us swapping Jags for Kone from Sunderland. I'd be happy with that. Jags has been really good for us but injuries are starting to kick in.

Come on Ronnie, go and buy Begovic next. Finally we are joining the fun.
		
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Dya think Begovic will join? Not implying it wouldn't be a good move. But he knew what he was getting going to Chelsea. So can't exactly play the surprised at lack of game time card.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 9, 2016)

We should sign Mark Schwarzer. Proven title winner.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 9, 2016)

Papas, shot in the dark mate but he is far too good to play at being a number 2. We should offer Chelsea a decent amount and then sell the club to him. He can be our number one for 4-5 years and that has to be better than warming the bench at Chelsea. He had a go at removing Courtois last year and it didn't work out, does he fancy more of the same? Let's find out? A proven top PL keeper and he knows the northwest well so settling in would not be an issue.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 9, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



			We should sign Mark Schwarzer. Proven title winner.
		
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It is for posts like this that we need a thank you button &#128513;


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## stokie_93 (Aug 9, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Stones out for a bonkers fee and Williams in for a quarter of it. Great business by Everton. Good luck to Stones and I genuinely hope he achieves his potential. Williams will give us a classic old fashioned centre half, stability and leadership. Good buy. 

Johnny Evans, no thanks.

Possible talk of us swapping Jags for Kone from Sunderland. I'd be happy with that. Jags has been really good for us but injuries are starting to kick in.

Come on Ronnie, go and buy Begovic next. Finally we are joining the fun.
		
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late to the party but Williams is a great buy especially after the fee you've just received for Stones.

Begovic is a top keeper matey, would like you to get him because he's far too good of a player to be sat on a bench!


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 9, 2016)

Stokie, your recruitment team can certainly spot a keeper. Begovic has been top class and Butland is the best young keeper around. If he regains his fitness then he is England's no 1 for me. What's your current reserve keeper like?


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## stokie_93 (Aug 9, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Stokie, your recruitment team can certainly spot a keeper. Begovic has been top class and Butland is the best young keeper around. If he regains his fitness then he is England's no 1 for me. What's your current reserve keeper like?
		
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yeah we've had some great keepers since joining the Prem, Tommy Sorenson was first class for us too and at the time had Begovic as number 2 so a great back up.
Jack is a completely different class though mate, his shot stopping is just ridiculous. 

our reserve keeper(s) are awful mate. Think Given is past his best and Haugaard (young danish) is unconvinving, had a couple of howlers last season and already had one pre-season. Saying that I do think there's a good keeper in there somewhere, he's got a hell of a kick and throw and his shot stopping generally is good. He's only 24 so plenty of time there to work with him.

 We need a good back-up because we looked shaky when Jack was injured last season.


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## Hobbit (Aug 9, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Stokie, your recruitment team can certainly spot a keeper. Begovic has been top class and Butland is the best young keeper around. If he regains his fitness then he is England's no 1 for me. What's your current reserve keeper like?
		
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Ming the merciful might move across the park...


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## Karl102 (Aug 9, 2016)

From the bbc.... Imagine this team in the prem....

Here is a list of the most expensive player in each position. Notably two of them have happened today.

Goalkeeper: Gianluigi Buffon (Â£32.6m, Parma - Juventus 2001)

Right-back: Dani Alves (Â£27.5m, Sevilla - Barcelona 2008) 

Centre-back: David Luiz (Â£50m, Chelsea - Paris St-Germain 2014)

Centre-back: John Stones (Â£47.5m, Everton - Manchester City 2016)

Left-back: Luke Shaw (Â£27m, Southampton - Manchester United 2014)

Right midfield: Angel di Maria (Â£59.7m, Real Madrid - Manchester United 2014)

Centre midfield: Paul Pogba (Â£89m. Juventus - Manchester United 2016)

Left midfield: James Rodriguez (Â£63m, Monaco - Real Madrid 2014)

Right forward: Cristiano Ronaldo (Â£80m, Manchester United - Real Madrid 2009)

Centre forward: Gonzalo Higuain (Â£76.5m, Napoli - Juventus 2016)

Left forward: Gareth Bale (Â£85.3m, Tottenham - Real Madrid 2013)

Total cost: Â£638.1m


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 9, 2016)

They would have to be massively drunk on the Stones transfer money to bid for him. Please tell me that's your opinion and not a rumour &#128552; . We have enough money to be able to go much better than him.


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## sawtooth (Aug 9, 2016)

City clearly have more money than sense. 

I think Arsenal's Rob Holding will turn out to be a better player than Stones and Holding only cost Â£2M!!


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 9, 2016)

Karl, best value for me, Buffon. Still quality now. A few quid wasted there as well.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 9, 2016)

'dat centre back partnership. Â£97.5m well spent.


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## Karl102 (Aug 9, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Karl, best value for me, Buffon. Still quality now. A few quid wasted there as well.
		
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I agree.... Lots of $$$ wasted on some very mediocre players.... Imagine what players like  Best, Law, Dagleish, Moore to name but a few would be worth now...


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 9, 2016)

More up to date, Pirlo, Xavi, Iniesta. What value on them? Great names you picked there though.


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## stokie_93 (Aug 9, 2016)

What about Ronaldo (Proper Ronaldo), Figo and Zidane in their primes.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			More up to date, Pirlo, Xavi, Iniesta. What value on them? Great names you picked there though.
		
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I still can't believe jive got Pirlo on a free!

iniesta was a relative late bloomer. Before Pep took over at barca I remember he was always subbed on the hour, either on or off. Seemed Ryjkaard didn't know best how to use him. For me he's the best of that barca midfield. Has all the typical barca passing ability, but also a bit more directness to his game.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 9, 2016)

Zidane was one of the best midfielders I've ever seen. Did it at every level, club and international, tournaments as well. It would be a scary figure for him if Pogba is worth Â£100m.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			What about Ronaldo (Proper Ronaldo), Figo and Zidane in their primes.
		
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Controversial maybe, but I think figo would probably only go for a similar figure now as he did then, back then he was exactly what clubs expected of advanced wingers. Nowadays his goals ratio wouldn't get him mentioned against the names of messi, Ronaldo or bale.

a stoker like Ronaldo now would be silly money. The record he had, even after all the injuries was sublime. Can still recall him getting a standing ovation at old Trafford after he dumped Utd out of the CL.


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## stokie_93 (Aug 9, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Controversial maybe, but I think figo would probably only go for a similar figure now as he did then, back then he was exactly what clubs expected of advanced wingers. Nowadays his goals ratio wouldn't get him mentioned against the names of messi, Ronaldo or bale.

a stoker like Ronaldo now would be silly money. The record he had, even after all the injuries was sublime. Can still recall him getting a standing ovation at old Trafford after he dumped Utd out of the CL.
		
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As a huge football lover as a kid (and now) I grew up with them in their prime. Zidane was different class to watch and Ronaldo has to be up there as one of the best natural strikers going.

Obviously watching English football I grew up idolising Thierry Henry, what a truly sublime player he was. Can watch video's of him all day cause he was stunning to watch. That goal against United was just something else.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 9, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			City clearly have more money than sense. 

I think Arsenal's Rob Holding will turn out to be a better player than Stones and Holding only cost Â£2M!!
		
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:rofl: :rofl: mint :rofl: :rofl:


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## stokie_93 (Aug 9, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Zidane was one of the best midfielders I've ever seen. Did it at every level, club and international, tournaments as well. It would be a scary figure for him if Pogba is worth Â£100m.
		
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had a lethal headbutt too


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## Dan2501 (Aug 9, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			City clearly have more money than sense. 

I think Arsenal's Rob Holding will turn out to be a better player than Stones and Holding only cost Â£2M!!
		
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Is that a serious post?


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## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			As a huge football lover as a kid (and now) I grew up with them in their prime. Zidane was different class to watch and Ronaldo has to be up there as one of the best natural strikers going.

Obviously watching English football I grew up idolising Thierry Henry, what a truly sublime player he was. Can watch video's of him all day cause he was stunning to watch. That goal against United was just something else.
		
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Ronaldo was the first world star I really saw the career from start to finish. Remember seeing him play in Holland as a goofy teen (him not me) and didn't maybe understand how poor their league was / how good he was. I think his goalscoring record was phenomenal. The closest to him now I'd say is aguero for being a gaol scorer first and foremost.


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## stokie_93 (Aug 9, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Ronaldo was the first world star I really saw the career from start to finish. Remember seeing him play in Holland as a goofy teen (him not me) and didn't maybe understand how poor their league was / how good he was. I think his goalscoring record was phenomenal. The closest to him now I'd say is aguero for being a gaol scorer first and foremost.
		
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slightly different players but yeah Aguero has the same instinct about him.

He's by far the best striker in the premiership and has been the best we've seen for a while to be honest.

Favourite striker of recent years has been Drogba, he had absolutely everything you could want in a striker.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 9, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			had a lethal headbutt too 

Click to expand...

A true all rounder then &#128513;


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## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			slightly different players but yeah Aguero has the same instinct about him.

He's by far the best striker in the premiership and has been the best we've seen for a while to be honest.

Favourite striker of recent years has been Drogba, he had absolutely everything you could want in a striker.
		
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Yeah, different styles. But both similarly lethal.

i liked drogba, thiught the English game suited him. And the partnership he had with lampard meant that his goalscoring limits were easily acceptable due to the amount of goals he assisted with. Shame he had the balance of a drunk man at last orders.


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## stokie_93 (Aug 9, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Yeah, different styles. But both similarly lethal.

i liked drogba, thiught the English game suited him. And the partnership he had with lampard meant that his goalscoring limits were easily acceptable due to the amount of goals he assisted with. Shame he had the balance of a drunk man at last orders.
		
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Drogba just had a fantastic knack of scoring goals at the right time!

Don't forget at the time Chelsea operated with 2 up front and Lampard close behind which meant Drogba wasn't the main focal point of attack.

He was an absolute defenders nightmare. Still absolutely tearing it up for Toronto, 19 goals in 23 games at the grand age of 38! Mickey Mouse league aside...


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## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Drogba just had a fantastic knack of scoring goals at the right time!

Don't forget at the time Chelsea operated with 2 up front and Lampard close behind which meant Drogba wasn't the main focal point of attack.

He was an absolute defenders nightmare. Still absolutely tearing it up for Toronto, 19 goals in 23 games at the grand age of 38! Mickey Mouse league aside...
		
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His goalscoring wasn't really meant as a slight. Don't get me wrong, if I was putting my money on someone scoring then he would be down the list. But if I wanted a very good goalscoring that could fit into almost any team, then he'd be the main man.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 9, 2016)

Not denying any of the strikers already mentioned, but PL wise Alan Shearer is still by a mile the best goal scorer we've seen in the modern era.


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## stokie_93 (Aug 9, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Not denying any of the strikers already mentioned, but PL wise Alan Shearer is still by a mile the best goal scorer we've seen in the modern era.
		
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yeah very good shout.

Ruud Van Nistelrooy always comes to mind as a pure goalscorer.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 9, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			yeah very good shout.

Ruud Van Nistelrooy always comes to mind as a pure goalscorer.
		
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Unfortunately the foreign players tend to spend a short time here and make a big impact, At the end of last season 8 of the top 10 PL all time goal scorers were English, that's more likely to be down to seasons played, not sure how the list looks if it was done goals per game.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Unfortunately the foreign players tend to spend a short time here and make a big impact, At the end of last season 8 of the top 10 PL all time goal scorers were English, that's more likely to be down to seasons played, not sure how the list looks if it was done goals per game.
		
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Aguero has the best record by a country mile on that front I believe. Something like a goal every 90 odd minutes on the pitch.

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/club/manche...00-goals-premier-league-most-efficient-scorer

thint he scored a few more before end of season, as recall the 90mi ute stat being used at some point last year.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Aguero has the best record by a country mile on that front I believe. Something like a goal every 90 odd minutes on the pitch.

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/club/manche...00-goals-premier-league-most-efficient-scorer

thint he scored a few more before end of season, as recall the 90mi ute stat being used at some point last year.
		
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Think Aguero beat Henry's goal per min record,but not by much.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Think Aguero beat Henry's goal per min record,but not by much.
		
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It's only their first 100 goals, but scoring a goal more than 10% faster on average is still quite a jump IMO. Henry's record overall looks to have slowed towards the end. Will be interesting to see if aguero plays here two more seasons. Then a pretty direct goals / games comparison can be made.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 9, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Aguero has the best record by a country mile on that front I believe. Something like a goal every 90 odd minutes on the pitch.

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/club/manche...00-goals-premier-league-most-efficient-scorer

thint he scored a few more before end of season, as recall the 90mi ute stat being used at some point last year.
		
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But that's the problem with stats, Shearer is the fastest to 100 and possibly played a little bit longer than he should have, because of Aquero's talent and others like him they get tempted to join the bigger clubs abroad.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			But that's the problem with stats, Shearer is the fastest to 100 and possibly played a little bit longer than he should have, because of Aquero's talent and others like him they get tempted to join the bigger clubs abroad.
		
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True, but when I was originally discussing Ronaldo and aguero, then drogba......

my my main point about him was his goalscoring nack. Aguero scoring 100 goals in the least minutes of them all I'd say is pretty clear cut. Not a misleading stat at all.

that said, I'd still take shearer over them all. Even if he did desert us young. (We're used to it)!


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## sawtooth (Aug 9, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			:rofl: :rofl: mint :rofl: :rofl:
		
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Dan2501 said:



			Is that a serious post?
		
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What?! 

Holding looks quality and has great potential. Stones on the other hand worries me, some of his performances have been far from convincing. 

Chelsea never went back in for him did they?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 9, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			True, but when I was originally discussing Ronaldo and aguero, then drogba......

my my main point about him was his goalscoring nack. Aguero scoring 100 goals in the least minutes of them all I'd say is pretty clear cut. Not a misleading stat at all.

that said, I'd still take shearer over them all. Even if he did desert us young. (We're used to it)!
		
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Not disagreeing, just pointing out the frustration with stats, sometimes it's down to the Club they play for.
Andy Cole is No2 in the list and Defoe at 11,


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 9, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			What?! 

Holding looks quality and has great potential. Stones on the other hand worries me, some of his performances have been far from convincing. 

Chelsea never went back in for him did they?
		
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But never heard of or mentioned by you until he signed for Arsenal.
Are you saying the sign of a good player is Chelsea making a bid? :rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

I wish Chelsea had got Stones,he really is going to be top draw IMO. 
But Â£47m for potential is crazy. 

So the best part of Â£100m for him & SterlingðŸ˜±ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜±


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## sawtooth (Aug 9, 2016)

How many people had heard of Stones before he signed for Everton for Â£3M?

Holding came from nowhere after having one decent season with Bolton. 

Just surprised Chelsea did not pursue Stones that's all, maybe I am reading too much into it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 9, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			How many people had heard of Stones before he signed for Everton for Â£3M?

Holding came from nowhere after having one decent season with Bolton. 

Just surprised Chelsea did not pursue Stones that's all, maybe I am reading too much into it.
		
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As I posted before Stones was superb 2 seasons back and last season was not, as you've put Holden has had one decent season in the FL, let's see how he does in the PL, then it would be fair to compare.
Chelsea changed managers and possibly priorities, maybe Conte doesn't rate him.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			How many people had heard of Stones before he signed for Everton for Â£3M?

Holding came from nowhere after having one decent season with Bolton. 

Just surprised Chelsea did not pursue Stones that's all, maybe I am reading too much into it.
		
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Â£47.5m and you're surprised ðŸ˜£


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 9, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			But that's the problem with stats, Shearer is the fastest to 100 and possibly played a little bit longer than he should have, because of Aquero's talent and others like him they get tempted to join the bigger clubs abroad.
		
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Shearer could of gone to a bigger club but stuck with his home town club.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

Â£30m for Balasie ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Wow


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 9, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			How many people had heard of Stones before he signed for Everton for Â£3M?

Holding came from nowhere after having one decent season with Bolton. 

Just surprised Chelsea did not pursue Stones that's all, maybe I am reading too much into it.
		
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Change of manager he's not a Conte defender. Can see why Pep has gone for him at city. Would fit into AW football style just about Â£45m too much!


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Â£30m for Balasie ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Wow
		
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It makes Mane look value


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## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Not disagreeing, just pointing out the frustration with stats, sometimes it's down to the Club they play for.
Andy Cole is No2 in the list and Defoe at 11,
		
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Fair point!
Be interesting to see ifDefoe gets a knock this season if he scores another 15?


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## garyinderry (Aug 9, 2016)

Massive and I mean massive upgrade on Lennon.    exciting player.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Shearer could of gone to a bigger club but stuck with his home town club.
		
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I wouldn't call Everton a bigger club, anyway at the time of the bid they offered Â£2m up front and the rest was in Everton mints.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			How many people had heard of Stones before he signed for Everton for Â£3M?

Holding came from nowhere after having one decent season with Bolton. 

Just surprised Chelsea did not pursue Stones that's all, maybe I am reading too much into it.
		
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Whilst im not sold on Stones, think he has a  moment in him at any point. I've still seen him play some blinding footy in the last two years. 

Genuinely, before you signed him. How much of a poor Bolton side have you watched to proclaim he's going to be better? Or are yiu just basing it on him signing for your club?


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			It makes Mane look value

Click to expand...

It really does &#128563;


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

Stones will have more time on the ball unlike at everton, add in he'll be playing with much better players and under the guidance of Pep I've no doubt he'll flourish.


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## sawtooth (Aug 9, 2016)

I agree Bolassie is a stand out player but Â£30M is probably Â£15M too much.

The world has gone mad.


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## Kellfire (Aug 9, 2016)

On the day we announce Pogba, City and Everton help us out by announcing much worse sounding deals. Cheers, pals.


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## sawtooth (Aug 9, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Stones will have more time on the ball unlike at everton, add in he'll be playing with much better players and under the guidance of Pep I've no doubt he'll flourish.
		
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He is good on the ball and composed ( so is Holding btw) but he's paid to defend first and foremost.

He will have to improve considerably to justify Â£50M on the evidence from last season. He is still young though so will wait and see.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

If Bolaise(sp) does join Everton, it's only a matter of time before Palace buy Benteke.

Everton might as well just give us the cash :whoo:


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## Fish (Aug 9, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			As I posted before Stones was superb 2 seasons back and last season was not, as you've put Holden has had one decent season in the FL, let's see how he does in the PL, then it would be fair to compare.
Chelsea changed managers and possibly priorities, maybe Conte doesn't rate him.
		
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At the time we were going for him Cahill was as good as on his way so it would have been Stones & Zouma in the centre but then he got injured so it all went tits up, for the best imo, just hope Zouma is the same player we saw prior to injury and doesn't become another Essien


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 9, 2016)

Fish said:



			At the time we were going for him Cahill was as good as on his way so it would have been Stones & Zouma in the centre but then he got injured so it all went tits up, for the best imo, just hope Zouma is the same player we saw prior to injury and doesn't become another Essien
		
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Totally agree, from an England point of view I hope Stones does reach his potential, but on last seasons form I'd take Zouma, Cahill and Terry ahead of him.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 9, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			If Bolaise(sp) does join Everton, it's only a matter of time before Palace buy Benteke.

Everton might as well just give us the cash :whoo:
		
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:rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			If Bolaise(sp) does join Everton, it's only a matter of time before Palace buy Benteke.

Everton might as well just give us the cash :whoo:
		
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&#128514; 
Hope that doesn't mean Lukaku comes to Chelsea &#128552;


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## sawtooth (Aug 9, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Whilst im not sold on Stones, think he has a  moment in him at any point. I've still seen him play some blinding footy in the last two years. 

Genuinely, before you signed him. How much of a poor Bolton side have you watched to proclaim he's going to be better? Or are yiu just basing it on him signing for your club?
		
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Formed my opinion purely on what I have seen of Holding in an Arsenal shirt pre-season.

I know it's early days but he doesn't look out of place. The way our injuries have gone he might even get a game on Subday against Liverpool. That will be a big test for him and it will be interesting to see how he copes.

At 20 he looks a very good prospect.


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## garyinderry (Aug 9, 2016)

sturridge out again too apparently.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			sturridge out again too apparently.
		
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He's making  big Dunc look like Mr motivator


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 9, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Formed my opinion purely on what I have seen of Holding in an Arsenal shirt pre-season.

I know it's early days but he doesn't look out of place. The way our injuries have gone he might even get a game on Subday against Liverpool. That will be a big test for him and it will be interesting to see how he copes.

At 20 he looks a very good prospect.
		
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Early days ?! He hasnt played a competitive game in the prem yet. He has come from a team bottom of the champ last year in a team that let in 81 goals - has it really got to that stage now where you have to persuade yourself on every signing Wenger makes. It's laughable how you can compare him to Stones


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			sturridge out again too apparently.
		
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How can one man/girl get SO many injuries?


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## Slime (Aug 9, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			How can one man/girl get SO many injuries?
		
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It's because he's a tart!


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

Slime said:



			It's because he's a tart! 

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He really does need a large dose of Man the F up pills.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Formed my opinion purely on what I have seen of Holding in an Arsenal shirt pre-season.

I know it's early days but he doesn't look out of place. The way our injuries have gone he might even get a game on Subday against Liverpool. That will be a big test for him and it will be interesting to see how he copes.

At 20 he looks a very good prospect.
		
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And he's better than Stones because of friendlies?!

Blimey, talk about blind loyalty!


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 9, 2016)

Any Palace fans on here? I seem to remember there are. What are your views on Bolasie? I've seen glimpses of him and heard the name but don't really know the pluses and minuses.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 9, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			&#62978; 
Hope that doesn't mean Lukaku comes to Chelsea &#63016;
		
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Why?


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## sawtooth (Aug 9, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			And he's better than Stones because of friendlies?!

Blimey, talk about blind loyalty!
		
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Please read my posts properly , I said I think Holding will turn out better than Stones.

Holding is not as good as Stones at present but I think he will go further.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Why?
		
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Just don't fancy him at the fee being suggested.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Please read my posts properly , I said I think Holding will turn out better than Stones.

Holding is not as good as Stones at present but I think he will go further.
		
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Can't beat potential,like when Ibe was going to be top draw &#128584;


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 9, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Please read my posts properly , I said I think Holding will turn out better than Stones.

Holding is not as good as Stones at present but I think he will go further.
		
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Based on zero competitive games at the highest level ? How can any comparison be made beyond as be suggested blind loyalty towards an Arsenal player.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 9, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Just don't fancy him at the fee being suggested.
		
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Money aside do you rate him?


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 9, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Early days ?! He hasnt played a competitive game in the prem yet. He has come from a team bottom of the champ last year in a team that let in 81 goals - has it really got to that stage now where you have to persuade yourself on every signing Wenger makes. It's laughable how you can compare him to Stones
		
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Sorry but you're mocking Arsenal who got top four *again* and you finished where? Of course any fan is going to have players they hope will be the real deal going forward. I can think of a few you've named in a red shirt as being the answer


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sorry but you're mocking Arsenal who got top four *again* and you finished where? Of course any fan is going to have players they hope will be the real deal going forward. I can think of a few you've named in a red shirt as being the answer
		
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No he's not, he's raised a very valid point, backed up with facts and the only retort you've got is to compare Arsenal v Liverpool.

Anybody else posts that and you'd agree, it's petty.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Money aside do you rate him?
		
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on the form of the 1st half of last season yes. But he wouldn't excite me. 
You?


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sorry but you're mocking Arsenal who got top four *again* and you finished where? Of course any fan is going to have players they hope will be the real deal going forward. I can think of a few you've named in a red shirt as being the answer
		
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Don't question LP,it's not allowed &#128580;


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Money aside do you rate him?
		
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Too inconsistent for me, though playing with better quality might improve his consistency.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Don't question LP,it's not allowed &#128580;
		
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It's allowed, but at least have a valid point to counter act his point.

Even you can understand this.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 9, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			No he's not, he's raised a very valid point, backed up with facts and the only retort you've got is to compare Arsenal v Liverpool.
		
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I disagree. The whole thread in recent days is very anti-Arsenal and to be honest it's not right in my opinion. They consistently out perform most other teams and if a poster thinks they have a gem then what difference does facts make. Look at Pogba's career in the PL to date, and yet suddenly he's worth so much money and the answer to United's problems. 

My view and not getting into a protracted debate ongoing. You have a different view, which I don't agree with but respect


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## sawtooth (Aug 9, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Based on zero competitive games at the highest level ? How can any comparison be made beyond as be suggested blind loyalty towards an Arsenal player.
		
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It's not about Wenger it's about the player.

So what if it's just friendlies he looked good.

Good touch, strong,  timed his tackles well, looked confident and comfortable with the ball. Not blind faith but what I have seen so far.

it's been a really encouraging start for him and before you say it again it was only in friendlies I know.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I disagree. The whole thread in recent days is very anti-Arsenal and to be honest it's not right in my opinion. They consistently out perform most other teams and *if a poster thinks they have a gem then what difference does facts make*. Look at Pogba's career in the PL to date, and yet suddenly he's worth so much money and the answer to United's problems. 

My view and not getting into a protracted debate ongoing. You have a different view, which I don't agree with but respect
		
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Homer, if LP or any red made the same statement that sawtooth made everybody would jump on it. 

Sawtooth has made a massive statement about a defender who was part of the Bolton side that got well and truly relegated. To say he'll be better than stones is ludicrous.

That has nothing to do with Arsenal's great achievement in qualifying for CL and struggling year on year.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			It's not about Wenger it's about the player.

So what if it's just friendlies he looked good.

Good touch, strong,  timed his tackles well, looked confident and comfortable with the ball. Not blind faith but what I have seen so far.

it's been a really encouraging start for him and before you say it again it was only in friendlies I know.
		
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Wenger has signed a young prospect and you've made a massive statement about the player based on a couple of pre season games.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 9, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			It's not about Wenger it's about the player.

So what if it's just friendlies he looked good.

Good touch, strong,  timed his tackles well, looked confident and comfortable with the ball. Not blind faith but what I have seen so far.

it's been a really encouraging start for him and before you say it again it was only in friendlies I know.
		
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It's meaningless unless it's in competitive games - plenty of young kids over the years for many teams have looks decent in pre season only to never be seen again 

Stones was chased by some of the biggest teams in Europe - he has shown his ability at the highest level and the best manager in the world right now is willing to spend big money on him - yet you believe a guy who played in a team whose defence leaked 81 goals in the championship finishing dead last and picked up on the cheap will turn out better ! Based on friendlies ! Can you not see why people think that's a joke or utter blind faith 

It's not a start because the season hasn't started yet. He has right now done zero at the top level -pre season  friendlies don't count and never have done - they are for fitness and building up towards the season with not many players anywhere near 100% or games played at 100%.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 9, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I disagree. The whole thread in recent days is very anti-Arsenal and to be honest it's not right in my opinion. They consistently out perform most other teams and if a poster thinks they have a gem then what difference does facts make. Look at Pogba's career in the PL to date, and yet suddenly he's worth so much money and the answer to United's problems. 

My view and not getting into a protracted debate ongoing. You have a different view, which I don't agree with but respect
		
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Unfortunately Martin whether your post was valid or not, 3 other posters picked up on Sean before Phil and it's only Phil and LPool you comment on, whether it's on purpose or not, serious question, how does it look? and it was me who has been banging on about Arsenal over the past few days and that stopped over the weekend when a mod stepped in, there's been no bitching or digs for a few days now, just honest discussion, ffs please let's keep it that way rather than reverting to last season and every post being took personally.&#128515;


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			It's allowed, but at least have a valid point to counter act his point.

Even you can understand this.
		
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But we've all seen LP big up all Liverpools signings in the past,even young players with "great potential"
Yet he pulls Arsenal fans on it. 

When people talk about Liverpool as much as he does Arsenal they're obsessed,yet no problem with him constantly banging on about Arsenal or picking up all of Sawtooth's posts. 

But hey ho &#128077;&#127995;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 9, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			It's not about Wenger it's about the player.

So what if it's just friendlies he looked good.

Good touch, strong,  timed his tackles well, looked confident and comfortable with the ball. Not blind faith but what I have seen so far.

it's been a really encouraging start for him and before you say it again it was only in friendlies I know.
		
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Reading social media tonight and a lot of posters taking the p1ss out of Everton signing Bolaise, except Arsenal fans who seem upset that a team like Everton are spending and you's seem stuck.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			But we've all seen LP big up all Liverpools signings in the past,even young players with "great potential"
Yet he pulls Arsenal fans on it. 

When people talk about Liverpool as much as he does Arsenal they're obsessed,yet no problem with him constantly banging on about Arsenal or picking up all of Sawtooth's posts. 

But hey ho &#128077;&#127995;
		
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So isn't he allowed to?

At least those players he's banged on about have actually played competitive football unlike the next better than John stones.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Reading social media tonight and a lot of posters taking the p1ss out of Everton signing Bolaise, except Arsenal fans who seem upset that a team like Everton are spending and you's seem stuck.
		
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Haven't Arsenal spent more than Everton??


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			So isn't he allowed to?

At least those players he's banged on about have actually played competitive football unlike the next better than John stones.
		
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Yep,but most have turned out to be average at best &#128077;&#127995;


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 9, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Unfortunately Martin whether your post was valid or not, 3 other posters picked up on Sean before Phil and it's only Phil and LPool you comment on, whether it's on purpose or not, serious question, how does it look? and it was me who has been banging on about Arsenal over the past few days and that stopped over the weekend when a mod stepped in, there's been no bitching or digs for a few days now, just honest discussion, ffs please let's keep it that way rather than reverting to last season and every post being took personally.&#128515;
		
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And yet the next post #1058 echoes what I said. As I said it's my opinion (withing forum rules and not personal or abusive) and I happen to simply find it funny how many posts have been poking fun at Arsenal (to put it politely) and yet their own clubs (may posters not simply Liverpool based) haven't performed as consistently. To be fair, Wenger definitely has form for taking young players and bringing them on so if the OP thinks there may be another unpolished diamond, rather than mock, based on a few pre-seasons games, and previous form, let's see it play out and see how it develops. I'm out as you seem to "making it personal" by ignoring my right to an opinion and singling me out. Done as I refuse to be drawn further and risk infractions


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 9, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			on the form of the 1st half of last season yes. But he wouldn't excite me. 
You?
		
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I'd have him quite happily.  Something of Drogba about him and he actually wants to be here & achieve something with the club.  Much as I like Costa the player, Costa the man is a bloody liability and given the disciplinary panels attitude of it's not what was done but who was doing it means he could play considerably more than Costa.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 9, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			I'd have him quite happily.  Something of Drogba about him and he actually wants to be here & achieve something with the club.  Much as I like Costa the player, Costa the man is a bloody liability and given the disciplinary panels attitude of it's not what was done but who was doing it means he could play considerably more than Costa.
		
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He's closer to being the finished article and if he plays in a team that can mix it up and play to his strengths he'll be 20 goals plus a season, we were too dependant on him and tactically found wanting, without his goals last season we'd of been in the relegation fight.


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## garyinderry (Aug 9, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			So isn't he allowed to?

At least those players he's banged on about have actually played competitive football unlike the next better than John stones.
		
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Pretty sure playing for Bolton counts as competitive football.      their POTY no less. :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 9, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And yet the next post #1058 echoes what I said. As I said it's my opinion (withing forum rules and not personal or abusive) and I happen to simply find it funny how many posts have been poking fun at Arsenal (to put it politely) and yet their own clubs (may posters not simply Liverpool based) haven't performed as consistently. To be fair, Wenger definitely has form for taking young players and bringing them on so if the OP thinks there may be another unpolished diamond, rather than mock, based on a few pre-seasons games, and previous form, let's see it play out and see how it develops. I'm out as you seem to "making it personal" by ignoring my right to an opinion and singling me out. Done as I refuse to be drawn further and risk infractions
		
Click to expand...

And if you read the posts over the last few days the main comments have been about Arsenals future, people are very complimentary about what Wenger has achieved in the past, I never made it personal, I asked a genuine question and asked for your opinion, playing the old, I'm out before I risk an infraction is disappointing as I'm sure your more than capable of debating honestly.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 9, 2016)

Karl102 said:



			Sorry, Scholes was ten times the player Gerrard was. If you asked every prem manager there has ever been who they would want out of the two, it would be Scholes every time. That includes the Liverpool managers 

Click to expand...

Absolute tosh.

gerrard gets the ball from traore, wall pass with leonardsen, knock down from Diouf, puts in Voronin to miss.

Scholes receives it from vidic, one-two with beck ham, slots in  nistelroy, squares to van Persie.

see where I'm going.......look up zidanes comments on Gerard also.


how would scholes have looked in most Liverpool teams - we would have won less. With Gerard, Man U would have won more.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Please read my posts properly , I said I think Holding will turn out better than Stones.

Holding is not as good as Stones at present but I think he will go further.
		
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Ok, so on a few meaningless friendlies you've seen more potential in a player that has so far been in a disasterous Bolton defence than someone who has played more in the prem and for his country. 

Youre point is is still as absurd IMO irrespective of the apparent misinterpretation on my behalf.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 9, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Early days ?! He hasnt played a competitive game in the prem yet. He has come from a team bottom of the champ last year in a team that let in 81 goals - has it really got to that stage now where you have to persuade yourself on every signing Wenger makes. It's laughable how you can compare him to Stones
		
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Spot on. Comparing Holding with Stones right now is laughable.

Bolasie is an excellent signing, and it's been a good day for Everton. Shame to see Stones go, but good to cash in now because he'd have left anyway, to make that much for him after he had a very poor season last season is good business. I do think he'll go on to be a superb defender under Pep, but right now replacing him with Williams looks like excellent business. We're also about to complete on Lamine Kone and are in for Bolasie. Good day to be a Toffee, and nice to see us picking things up in the transfer market. Typical Everton to leave it to the last couple of weeks though!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 9, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Absolute tosh.

gerrard gets the ball from traore, wall pass with leonardsen, knock down from Diouf, puts in Voronin to miss.

Scholes receives it from vidic, one-two with beck ham, slots in  nistelroy, squares to van Persie.

see where I'm going.......look up zidanes comments on Gerard also.


how would scholes have looked in most Liverpool teams - we would have won less. With Gerard, Man U would have won more.
		
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It's a question you'll never get an answer to, loyalties are split and so are the views of the worlds best.
Gets even worse if you add Lampard to the question.
For me they were all great players, just a pity England didn't/couldn't get them in the same team running our midfield on a world stage.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			Pretty sure playing for Bolton counts as competitive football.      their POTY no less. :rofl:
		
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I don't remember sawtooth banging on about this Lad last season, it's obvious that he's made this statement based on half hearted friendlies.

Stones still has a lot to prove btw.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			And if you read the posts over the last few days the main comments have been about Arsenals future, people are very complimentary about what Wenger has achieved in the past, I never made it personal, I asked a genuine question and asked for your opinion, playing the old_*, I'm out before I risk an infraction is disappointing as I'm sure your more than capable of debating honestly.*_

Click to expand...

_*

That's the easy way out. He should be a politician.

*_


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 9, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And yet the next post #1058 echoes what I said. As I said it's my opinion (withing forum rules and not personal or abusive) and I happen to simply find it funny how many posts have been poking fun at Arsenal (to put it politely) and yet their own clubs (may posters not simply Liverpool based) haven't performed as consistently. To be fair, Wenger definitely has form for taking young players and bringing them on so if the OP thinks there may be another unpolished diamond, rather than mock, based on a few pre-seasons games, and previous form, let's see it play out and see how it develops. I'm out as you seem to "making it personal" by ignoring my right to an opinion and singling me out. Done as I refuse to be drawn further and risk infractions
		
Click to expand...

Homer, neither me, lpoolphil or stuc manage Liverpool fc.

we can't have an effect on signings, tactics or picking the team. So, why when lpoolphil Phil, not me or stu, do you always defend Arsenal with, well Liverpool............why always the comparison, on a point of view on selection etc.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 9, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			It's a question you'll never get an answer to, loyalties are split and so are the views of the worlds best.
*Gets even worse if you add Lampard to the question.*
For me they were all great players, just a pity England didn't/couldn't get them in the same team running our midfield on a world stage.
		
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No it gets much easierâ€¦..


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 9, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			I'd have him quite happily.  Something of Drogba about him and he actually wants to be here & achieve something with the club.  Much as I like Costa the player, Costa the man is a bloody liability and given the disciplinary panels attitude of it's not what was done but who was doing it means he could play considerably more than Costa.
		
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And you have seen both live, so can form a good opinion, and not just via a sky season ticket.

I really hope you don't get lukaku, as the closest to drogba, without the diving. Awesome player.


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## Hobbit (Aug 9, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Absolute tosh.

gerrard gets the ball from traore, wall pass with leonardsen, knock down from Diouf, puts in Voronin to miss.

Scholes receives it from vidic, one-two with beck ham, slots in  nistelroy, squares to van Persie.

see where I'm going.......look up zidanes comments on Gerard also.


how would scholes have looked in most Liverpool teams - we would have won less. With Gerard, Man U would have won more.
		
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You been on the ginger beer again Pete? Scholes over Gerrard for me. A better stopper and passer. Didn't score as many goals but broke more attacks. Probably a little like comparing apples with oranges but if I had to choose one over the other I'd go for Scholes.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 9, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			And you have seen both live, so can form a good opinion, and not just via a sky season ticket.

I really hope you don't get lukaku, as the closest to drogba, without the diving. Awesome player.
		
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I wish we'd kept him so that he could have learnt from Drogbaâ€¦â€¦â€¦


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 9, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			I wish we'd kept him so that he could have learnt from Drogbaâ€¦â€¦â€¦
		
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Lukaku has the ability to be as unplayable as Drogba once at his best - would have learned a lot from Drogba but seems to have a bit of an attitude and a lazy streak going when things aren't going well - a lack of fight ( might explain not wanting to wait for a chance at Chelsea ) 

Would there be space for him and Costa or would Costa be then on the move back to Atletico


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## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			And you have seen both live, so can form a good opinion, and not just via a sky season ticket.

I really hope you don't get lukaku, as the closest to drogba, without the diving. Awesome player.
		
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I think his ability isn't in doubt. 

Temperament maybe a be a little more so. Depends how you view his departure of Chelsea. Either he was hungry enough to want game time, or he stropped. He was certainly rather frank about Everton being a stepping stone.

everton fans, over the course of the season he obviously scored well, but How was he when it really mattered? Coz he didn't sell himself well in France.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 9, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lukaku has the ability to be as unplayable as Drogba once at his best - would have learned a lot from Drogba but seems to have a bit of an attitude and a lazy streak going when things aren't going well - a lack of fight ( might explain not wanting to wait for a chance at Chelsea ) 

Would there be space for him and Costa or would Costa be then on the move back to Atletico
		
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Don't forget though Phil, he's still only 23, so a lot of the issues he's had can be put down to inexperience and possibly immaturity, obviously would love to keep him, but whoever he plays for he can only get better.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 9, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			You been on the ginger beer again Pete? Scholes over Gerrard for me. A better stopper and passer. Didn't score as many goals but broke more attacks. Probably a little like comparing apples with oranges but if I had to choose one over the other I'd go for Scholes.
		
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i think you've been on the absinthe, bri.

scholes a better stopper, you have got to be joking. I don't think even the most biased Man U fan would say This. By foul means, yes, by good tackling, never. He was known for being a dirty b, and anyone who buys into ferries "mistiming" excuse, doesn't know footy at all. Scholes could dictate a pace of a game better, granted, slipped lovely passes in behind a defence, arrived in the box with perfect timing, but a better stopper, pack in.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 9, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			I wish we'd kept him so that he could have learnt from Drogbaâ€¦â€¦â€¦
		
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The dark arts? ðŸ‘¹


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## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			i think you've been on the absinthe, bri.

scholes a better stopper, you have got to be joking. I don't think even the most biased Man U fan would say This. By foul means, yes, by good tackling, never. He was known for being a dirty b, and anyone who buys into ferries "mistiming" excuse, doesn't know footy at all. Scholes could dictate a pace of a game better, granted, slipped lovely passes in behind a defence, arrived in the box with perfect timing, but a better stopper, pack in.
		
Click to expand...

I read that as interceptions. I wouldn't necessarily agree he was better than Gerard in that respect, but he did have a habit of being in the right place at the right time. His tackling atrocious, but a lot of it was taking one for the team when someone had messed up and he was covering.

i think the two of them were what should have been England's midfield for years, but scholes disgracefully was pushed out to the left wing.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 9, 2016)

Btw Bolasie can be awesome on his day, and if Everton did manage to pair him and lukaku together, could have some forward line.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 9, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			I think his ability isn't in doubt. 

Temperament maybe a be a little more so. Depends how you view his departure of Chelsea. Either he was hungry enough to want game time, or he stropped. He was certainly rather frank about Everton being a stepping stone.

everton fans, over the course of the season he obviously scored well, but How was he when it really mattered? Coz he didn't sell himself well in France.
		
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As posted, he's still learning, he was still a teenager when Chelsea signed him and putting him out on loan was for his benefit, unfortunately he was a success so didn't want to return to Chelsea and be a sub.
He may appear to drift out of games but 18 goals in the PL in a struggling side is a great return, he can pop up first or last minute with a goal, 
Don't think many players had a good Euros, you can probably count on one hand those that did.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 9, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			I think his ability isn't in doubt. 

Temperament maybe a be a little more so. Depends how you view his departure of Chelsea. *Either he was hungry enough to want game time, or he stropped.* He was certainly rather frank about Everton being a stepping stone.

everton fans, over the course of the season he obviously scored well, but How was he when it really mattered? Coz he didn't sell himself well in France.
		
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You forgot the "Jose didn't fancy him & gave him the Mata treatment" option.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			You forgot the "Jose didn't fancy him & gave him the Mata treatment" option. 

Click to expand...

Fair point

Would certainly be interesting to see if you signed him and kept costa too!


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## Karl102 (Aug 9, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Absolute tosh.

gerrard gets the ball from traore, wall pass with leonardsen, knock down from Diouf, puts in Voronin to miss.

Scholes receives it from vidic, one-two with beck ham, slots in  nistelroy, squares to van Persie.

see where I'm going.......look up zidanes comments on Gerard also.


how would scholes have looked in most Liverpool teams - we would have won less. With Gerard, Man U would have won more.
		
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Have to agree to disagree... Utd would not have won more with Gerrard than Scholes and Liverpool would have won more with Scholes than Gerrard... Both great dedicated players but Gerrard not fit to lace Gerrards boots....


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## Hobbit (Aug 9, 2016)

Karl102 said:



			Have to agree to disagree... Utd would not have won more with Gerrard than Scholes and Liverpool would have won more with Scholes than Gerrard... Both great dedicated players but Gerrard not fit to lace Gerrards boots....
		
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I'm seeing double


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## Slime (Aug 10, 2016)

Karl102 said:



			Have to agree to disagree... Utd would not have won more with Gerrard than Scholes and Liverpool would have won more with Scholes than Gerrard... Both great dedicated players *but Gerrard not fit to lace Gerrards boots....*

Click to expand...

Maybe he should use velcro!


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## Dan2501 (Aug 10, 2016)

Finalised the Fantasy team for this week. What do you reckon?







Who have you guys picked?


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## stokie_93 (Aug 10, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



			Finalised the Fantasy team for this week. What do you reckon?
		
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who have you got on your bench, dunno how you've managed to work all them in!


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## Karl102 (Aug 10, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			I'm seeing double
		
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:rofl: 
Sorry, apologies... Too much Perioni in Sorrento last night.... Obviously meant Gerrard not fit to lace Scholes boots....


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## Karl102 (Aug 10, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



			Finalised the Fantasy team for this week. What do you reckon?







Who have you guys picked?
		
Click to expand...

Good team that!!!


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## Hobbit (Aug 10, 2016)

Karl102 said:



			:rofl: 
Sorry, apologies... Too much Perioni in Sorrento last night.... Obviously meant Gerrard not fit to lace Scholes boots....
		
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aaahhh, Sorrento. I watched a few games there last year. Its only local amateur stuff but they're really friendly, especially for the post match drinks. The ground is near the Grand Hotel Riviera. Its on the via Aniello Califano(lousy spelling), about 5 mins from the town centre.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 10, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			who have you got on your bench, dunno how you've managed to work all them in!
		
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Got Jakupovic, Hojbjerg, Browning and Friend on the bench.


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## stokie_93 (Aug 10, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



			Got Jakupovic, Hojbjerg, Browning and Friend on the bench.
		
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ahh gone for the strong starting 11 weak bench option  

I'm more of a squad player. 

Tried uploading a picture but struggling, team as follows:

Courtois
Walker Joel Ward Bellerin Van Dijk
Walcott Hazard Bojan
Shane Long Musa Aguero

Bench: Butland, Baines, Feghouli, Jordan Ibe


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## drewster (Aug 10, 2016)

Question to you Liverpool folk.....who will start up front for you guys ?  Will they go with Origi? Ings ? Is Sturridge fit ?  Benteke ?? or will they do a Barcelona and not play a recognised striker and play Firmino up top ??? Your input would be appreciated.


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## drewster (Aug 10, 2016)

As it stands and subject to change of course !!!! 

de Gea

Byram,Williams,Stones

Hazard,Redmond,Pogba,Ayew,

Origi,AgÃ¼ero,Ibrahimovic


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## Karl102 (Aug 10, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			aaahhh, Sorrento. I watched a few games there last year. Its only local amateur stuff but they're really friendly, especially for the post match drinks. The ground is near the Grand Hotel Riviera. Its on the via Aniello Califano(lousy spelling), about 5 mins from the town centre.
		
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Off there on Saturday! Can't beat amateur footy


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## stokie_93 (Aug 10, 2016)

drewster said:



			As it stands and subject to change of course !!!! 

de Gea

Byram,Williams,Stones

Hazard,Redmond,Pogba,Ayew,

Origi,AgÃ¼ero,Ibrahimovic
		
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that explains why you want to know who Liverpool will play


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## drewster (Aug 10, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			that explains why you want to know who Liverpool will play 

Click to expand...

Indeed, personally i think he's the real deal but am not sure Klippety thinks the same !!!!


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## stokie_93 (Aug 10, 2016)

drewster said:



			Indeed, personally i think he's the real deal but am not sure Klippety thinks the same !!!!
		
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I agree with you mate, think he looks a brilliant player.

Strong, quick and skillful.

Not sure who he'll play at the weekend in all fairness, if it was down to me he's got to play a striker due to Arsenal having injury troubles at the back but I guess we'll see!!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 10, 2016)

Ashley Williams confirmed, very happy with that signing.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 10, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Ashley Williams confirmed, very happy with that signing.
		
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Good signing that, just need bolaise to hurry up and sign....


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## Stuart_C (Aug 10, 2016)

drewster said:



			Question to you Liverpool folk.....who will start up front for you guys ?  Will they go with Origi? Ings ? Is Sturridge fit ?  Benteke ?? or will they do a Barcelona and not play a recognised striker and play Firmino up top ??? Your input would be appreciated.
		
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I think Origi will play most games provided he stays fit. He's the typical player Klopp likes, someone who grafts  and puts the yards in and he can finish.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 10, 2016)

Reminds me of the Distin move after we sold Lescott. That was a cracking double as well.

Bolasie is more of a winger than a striker though unless Ronnie is also going to use him down the middle in addition to outwide. We need a back up for Lukaku for when he is off colour.

I'm on holiday at the moment. Have the Lukaku to Chelsea stories gone quiet now?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 10, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Reminds me of the Distin move after we sold Lescott. That was a cracking double as well.

Bolasie is more of a winger than a striker though unless Ronnie is also going to use him down the middle in addition to outwide. We need a back up for Lukaku for when he is off colour.

I'm on holiday at the moment. Have the Lukaku to Chelsea stories gone quiet now?
		
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Papers say Chelsea are going to play the waiting game, Chelsea fan sites on twitter reported Lukaku didn't train today and took that as a positive sign for themselves.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 10, 2016)

Bet this lads doing a roaring trade now :rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## richart (Aug 10, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			Pretty sure playing for Bolton counts as competitive football.      their POTY no less. :rofl:
		
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 He was rubbish against us. Got sent off in the first half.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 10, 2016)

Karl102 said:



			Have to agree to disagree... Utd would not have won more with Gerrard than Scholes and Liverpool would have won more with Scholes than Gerrard... Both great dedicated players but Gerrard not fit to lace Gerrards boots....
		
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Gerrards that good, you named him twice.

The prem has had five outstanding centre midfielders imho. Gerrard, scholes, Viera, Keane and lampard. All where consistently top drawer for 8-15 years. 

Some others have had great 3-4 year bursts like  Essien, petit, mascherano, yay a, makalele etc. 

There is only half or 1 out of 10 at the most difference between any of the top 5 mentioned, no one unfit to lace anyone's boots. Scholes was a failed striker, whereas gerrard could and did play numerous positions for both club and country, he was that good. Scholes only ever played in a top team, and wasn't often picked ahead of lampard or Gerrards for England.

also, give me one of your best midfielders, and I,d have picked Keane anyway.:ears:

so justify how scholes was 10 times the player........, after your hangover.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 10, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Gerrards that good, you named him twice.

The prem has had five outstanding centre midfielders imho. Gerrard, scholes, Viera, Keane and lampard. All where consistently top drawer for 8-15 years. 

Some others have had great 3-4 year bursts like  Essien, petit, mascherano, yay a, makalele etc. 

There is only half or 1 out of 10 at the most difference between any of the top 5 mentioned, no one unfit to lace anyone's boots. Scholes was a failed striker, whereas gerrard could and did play numerous positions for both club and country, he was that good. Scholes only ever played in a top team, and wasn't often picked ahead of lampard or Gerrards for England.

also, give me one of your best midfielders, and I,d have picked Keane anyway.:ears:

so justify how scholes was 10 times the player........, after your hangover.
		
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Six outstanding midfielders, Six.........you forgot Leon Osman :rofl:


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 11, 2016)

With all the chat about Gerrard and Scholes I'm smiling to myself about the players that existed before the PL, remember that time, who I'd pick above both of them. Have a remember about the 70's and 80's. The last few pages of this thread has got stuck in a very recent time warp.

Before anyone asks the question, I'll start you with Souness and follow with Hoddle. I'd pick both of them ahead of Scholes and Gerard and yes, I'm very sober &#128512;. They'd work beautifully side by side as well.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 11, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			With all the chat about Gerrard and Scholes I'm smiling to myself about the players that existed before the PL, remember that time, who I'd pick above both of them. Have a remember about the 70's and 80's. The last few pages of this thread has got stuck in a very recent time warp.

Before anyone asks the question, I'll start you with Souness and follow with Hoddle. I'd pick both of them ahead of Scholes and Gerard and yes, I'm very sober &#128512;. They'd work beautifully side by side as well.
		
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Unfortunately&#128515; Kenny Dalglish was one of the all time best imo and a shout for Bryan Robson who would put himself about.
Peter Reid, legend.


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## Kellfire (Aug 11, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			With all the chat about Gerrard and Scholes I'm smiling to myself about the players that existed before the PL, remember that time, who I'd pick above both of them. Have a remember about the 70's and 80's. The last few pages of this thread has got stuck in a very recent time warp.

Before anyone asks the question, I'll start you with Souness and follow with Hoddle. I'd pick both of them ahead of Scholes and Gerard and yes, I'm very sober &#55357;&#56832;. They'd work beautifully side by side as well.
		
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Duncan Edwards. Case closed. Lock the thread.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 11, 2016)

Paul, I'll add Paul Bracewell, my favourite player of that time / team. For those arsenal fans lets also throw in Liam Brady. Murhen at Ipswich, Ardiles at Tottenham. This could go on and on so how about we forget about Scholes and Gerard hey?


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 11, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Duncan Edwards. Case closed. Lock the thread. 

Click to expand...

It's a great shame, apart from the obvious, that there is not more footage of him. For those born outside his era we have seen little of him. Highly regarded by all who did though.


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## Hobbit (Aug 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Unfortunately&#62979; Kenny Dalglish was one of the all time best imo and a shout for Bryan Robson who would put himself about.
Peter Reid, legend.
		
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Dalglish and Robson, absolutely. Reid? Who is this Reid you speak of? Although him and Robson were excellent at shifting beer in Yarm on regular occasions.


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## Slime (Aug 11, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Duncan Edwards. Case closed. Lock the thread. 

Click to expand...


As above.
Duncan Edwards. Case closed. Lock the thread. :thup:


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 11, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Dalglish and Robson, absolutely. Reid? Who is this Reid you speak of? Although him and Robson were excellent at shifting beer in Yarm on regular occasions.
		
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Mr Reid did it both at club and international level. Remember the transformation during the world cup when Wilkins was sent off and Reid came on? Had more impact in a tournament than Scholes or Gerard ever managed.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 11, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Paul, I'll add Paul Bracewell, my favourite player of that time / team. For those arsenal fans lets also throw in Liam Brady. Murhen at Ipswich, Ardiles at Tottenham. This could go on and on so how about we forget about Scholes and Gerard hey?
		
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Stevens - Reid - Bracewell - Sheedy.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



*Stevens* - Reid - Bracewell - Sheedy.
		
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Gary?


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## BesCumber (Aug 11, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Although him and Robson were excellent at shifting beer in Yarm on regular occasions.
		
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They wer'nt behind the door at shifting a few in Benny's close to Bury as well Hobbit.
Legends. :lol:


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## Hobbit (Aug 11, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Mr Reid did it both at club and international level. Remember the transformation during the world cup when Wilkins was sent off and Reid came on? Had more impact in a tournament than Scholes or Gerard ever managed.
		
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Is that the same Mr Reid that got a whole 13 caps for England? 13 caps! Wow, he certainly was special.

It was a cracking Everton side he was in, probably the best ever!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 11, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Is that the same Mr Reid that got a whole 13 caps for England? 13 caps! Wow, he certainly was special.

It was a cracking Everton side he was in, probably the best ever!
		
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Reid was a late developer&#128515;


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 11, 2016)

He was a late developer and he also played at a time when trying to move established players out was nigh on impossible. It was the era of picking experienced players no matter how poor they were playing. I'm not claiming Reid was world class for 10 years but he was for a spell and he grabbed hold of England matches in a world cup in a way I never saw Scholes, Gerard or Lampard ever do. For that he deserves respect.

The midfield quartet quoted by Paul brings a lump in the throat to any blue. A great midfield, each player offering something different. The Everton and Liverpool teams during those years had some genuinely top players in them.

Back to Robson. I grew up in Cheshire where most of the Man Utd players lived and Robsons drinking capability was legendary. Thoroughly miserable as well but I'm told his brother is a lovely bloke, quite the opposite. Nothing to do with anything but I thought I'd throw that in.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 11, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Is that the same Mr Reid that got a whole 13 caps for England? 13 caps! Wow, he certainly was special.

It was a cracking Everton side he was in, probably the best ever!
		
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Kenny Sampson got more caps than a 2 time European Cup winner, who was a better full back than him.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 11, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Gary? 

Click to expand...

No, shakin :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 11, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He was a late developer and he also played at a time when trying to move established players out was nigh on impossible. It was the era of picking experienced players no matter how poor they were playing. I'm not claiming Reid was world class for 10 years but he was for a spell and he grabbed hold of England matches in a world cup in a way I never saw Scholes, Gerard or Lampard ever do. For that he deserves respect.

The midfield quartet quoted by Paul brings a lump in the throat to any blue. A great midfield, each player offering something different. The Everton and Liverpool teams during those years had some genuinely top players in them.

Back to Robson. I grew up in Cheshire where most of the Man Utd players lived and Robsons drinking capability was legendary. Thoroughly miserable as well but I'm told his brother is a lovely bloke, quite the opposite. Nothing to do with anything but I thought I'd throw that in.
		
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I met Bryan Robson in an Indian in Birmingham last November, came across really well, maybe they mellow out when fully retired.
Stu_C, Is that Phil Neal you're on about?


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 11, 2016)

Stu, as I said. During that era if your face fitted you could fill your cupboard with caps. Lots of cracking players never got a look in.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I met Bryan Robson in an Indian in Birmingham last November, came across really well, maybe they mellow out when fully retired.
Stu_C, Is that Phil Neal you're on about?
		
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No, Alan Kennedy. It's believed  that Sampson was picked because he was based in London.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 11, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Stu, as I said. During that era if your face fitted you could fill your cupboard with caps. Lots of cracking players never got a look in.
		
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That was my point to hobbit #1125. Anyone north of watford struggled to get In the squad.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 11, 2016)

Don Howe influence as well no doubt.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 11, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			No, Alan Kennedy. It's believed  that Sampson was picked because he was based in London.
		
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London > Liverpool ....


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## Stuart_C (Aug 11, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			London > Liverpool .... 

Click to expand...

At that time the score in European cups was London 0 Liverpool 4 :lol:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 11, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			At that time the score in European cups was London 0 Liverpool 4 :lol:
		
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No mate it was The North West 5 London 0 &#128515;


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## Stuart_C (Aug 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			No mate it was The North West 5 London 0 &#128515;
		
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 See post 1135


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 11, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Kenny Sampson got more caps than a 2 time European Cup winner, who was a better full back than him.
		
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And Mark Dennis was way better than either of them.

Only problem was he was a complete headbanger!


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## Dan2501 (Aug 11, 2016)

Why's Wenger going in for Mustafi? Thought they'd already bought a defender this year who's better than Stones?


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## Stuart_C (Aug 11, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



			Why's Wenger going in for Mustafi? *Thought they'd already bought a defender this year who's better than Stones?*

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:rofl: :rofl:


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## freddielong (Aug 11, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



			Why's Wenger going in for Mustafi? Thought they'd already bought a defender this year who's better than Stones?
		
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Only time will tell.


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## Slime (Aug 11, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Only time will tell.
		
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Surely time is the one thing Wenger is running out of!


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 11, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Kenny Sampson got more caps than a 2 time European Cup winner, who was a better full back than him.
		
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To be fair, Sansom was a good player,and "Barney Rubble" was intermittent. As we've said before, you just cant judge a players ability on their medal collection.

In them days, I used to stand towards the back of the Kop, and his shooting used to trouble the cafe at the back. Put him in a final though, and he was lethal.

I can still see that penalty going in in the stadio olimpico in 1984, best holiday ever as a 13 year old. My arl fella let me have a bevvy, seen the Vatican, 6 day trip with a load of drunken posties on a coach to Rome.....I didnt want that trip to end.:thup:

BTW, I seen Souness for a few years and he was awesome, but still think Gerrard was better. Hoddle was a fancy dan.:whoo:


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 11, 2016)

Both excellent players,but 
What part of Gerrards game was better than Lampards that made him better? 
It's ok saying that stats don't tell the whole story,but I honestly can't see how Gerrard was better. 
Suppose it's like comparing Messi & Ronaldo,it's all about opinions.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 11, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			To be fair, Sansom was a good player,and "Barney Rubble" was intermittent. As we've said before, you just cant judge a players ability on their medal collection.

In them days, I used to stand at the front of the queue at the cafe, and his shooting used to trouble the cafe at the back. Put him in a final though, and he was lethal.

I can still see that penalty going in in the stadio olimpico in 1984, best holiday ever as a 13 year old. My arl fella let me have a bevvy, seen the Vatican, 6 day trip with a load of drunken posties on a coach to Rome.....I didnt want that trip to end.:thup:

BTW, I seen Souness for a few years and he was awesome, but still think Gerrard was better. Hoddle was a fancy dan.:whoo:
		
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Fixed 

I've no doubt Sansom was a good player but if Barney would've played down south he'd have had more England caps.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 11, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Both excellent players,but 
What part of Gerrards game was better than Lampards that made him better? 
It's ok saying that stats don't tell the whole story,but I honestly can't see how Gerrard was better. 
Suppose it's like comparing Messi & Ronaldo,it's all about opinions.
		
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Gerrard could play almost every position and still look boss. 

You can't appreciate a player properly until you actually watch them live week in week out. 

You don't see everything on the telly.

When it comes to these types of discussions I think United fans will say Scholes, Chelsea fans will say Lampard and Liverpool fans will say Gerrard, after all it's only opinion based.


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## Hobbit (Aug 11, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			You can't appreciate a player properly until you actually watch them live week in week out. 

You don't see everything on the telly.
		
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Spot on there Stu.

The TV doesn't show the off the ball movement. How they read the game. The marshalling of a defence or midfield. Twin strikers swapping positions.

The best reader of a game I ever saw was Beardsley. He made Liniker look outstanding. Bryan Robson made the defence look immense by protecting them so much.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 11, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Gerrard could play almost every position and still look boss. 

You can't appreciate a player properly until you actually watch them live week in week out. 

You don't see everything on the telly.

When it comes to these types of discussions I think United fans will say Scholes, Chelsea fans will say Lampard and Liverpool fans will say Gerrard, after all it's only opinion based.
		
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As a neutral i'd take scholes all day.

Just preferred his style of play. Always seemed to turn up when it mattered too. Unfortunately, in my memory for every Istanbul, Fa cup or olimpiakos there is a slip, own goal or pass back.

I think gerrard was defo more versatile and therefore certainly at intl level, wasnt able to play his style as was always the one played out of position. Re more defensive to allow lamps to go forward.

Lampard, great goalscorer, not sure he had the alround of gerrard. But with stats a case could be made for all three. 

I think like a lot of players that retire, its only once gone we realise what we had. If only for one of those 3 instead of what we have now. Much like having players like king and carra on the bench, when now we have smalling starting!


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## Stuart_C (Aug 11, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Spot on there Stu.

The TV doesn't show the off the ball movement. How they read the game. The marshalling of a defence or midfield. Twin strikers swapping positions.

The best reader of a game I ever saw was Beardsley. He made Liniker look outstanding. Bryan Robson made the defence look immense by protecting them so much.
		
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i loved Beardsley, he was superb, gutted he signed for that lot across the park.


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## freddielong (Aug 11, 2016)

Slime said:



			Surely time is the one thing Wenger is running out of!
		
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Wenger will sign for another 3 years


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 11, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Wenger will sign for another 3 years
		
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That's not what he stated in interviews yesterday, he stated this seasons results will determine if he stays or not, he wants to continue working but doesn't know.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 11, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			i loved Beardsley, he was superb, gutted he signed for that lot across the park.
		
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Utd reject!


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## freddielong (Aug 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			That's not what he stated in interviews yesterday, he stated this seasons results will determine if he stays or not, he wants to continue working but doesn't know.
		
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Just an interview, he doesn't want to retire yet the board dont want him to go so it's more or less guaranteed.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 11, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Just an interview, he doesn't want to retire yet the board dont want him to go so it's more or less guaranteed.
		
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So why wait till end of season, give him a contract extension now.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 12, 2016)

Anyone who enjoyed Class of 92; Out of their League last season about the Man Utd boys buying Salford City, there's a new series starting Thursday 25th August on BBC 1.


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## sawtooth (Aug 12, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Just an interview, he doesn't want to retire yet the board dont want him to go so it's more or less guaranteed.
		
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I think it's Wengers way to gee up the squad.
The  players will be focussed on doing well for him be it his final year or to try and keep him for a bit longer.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 12, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I think it's Wengers way to gee up the squad.
The  players will be focussed on doing well for him be it his final year or to try and keep him for a bit longer.
		
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Maybe he should save the mind games for after the xmas do...............


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## Stuart_C (Aug 12, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I think it's Wengers way to gee up the squad.
The  players will be focussed on doing well for him be it his final year or to try and keep him for a bit longer.
		
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So it's an idle threat then?


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## Stuart_C (Aug 12, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Utd reject!
		
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Your lot have a good history of not keeping hold of top top top top top  talent haven't they :ears:


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## freddielong (Aug 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So why wait till end of season, give him a contract extension now.
		
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Arsene has always said if he doesn't think he can do the job he will step down I think it's his way a of putting pressure on himself, it is worth noting that he has just bought two players that he sees as future stars.

Given the stupid money flying around if he gets Mustafi over the line at the numbers being talked about that would be an amazing signing.


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## Slime (Aug 12, 2016)

Matt Le Tissier anyone?
I never tire of watching footage of one of the most naturally gifted players I've ever seen.

Oh, don't forget the great Robin Friday.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 12, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Arsene has always said if he doesn't think he can do the job he will step down I think it's his way a of putting pressure on himself, it is worth noting that he has just bought two players that he sees as future stars.

Given the stupid money flying around if he gets Mustafi over the line at the numbers being talked about that would be an amazing signing.
		
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Or risking the board not wanting to keep him?
Sean, do you really believe that apart from a small minority the players will try harder because the managers contract is up for renewal.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 12, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Arsene has always said if he doesn't think he can do the job he will step down I think it's his way a of putting pressure on himself, it is worth noting that he has just bought two players that he sees as future stars.

Given the stupid money flying around if he gets Mustafi over the line at the numbers being talked about that would be an amazing signing.
		
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So far he has failed to get Vardy and Mahrez and neither were massive money none more than he has spent before.

I wonder what the reasons were.


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## Fish (Aug 12, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			So far he has failed to get Vardy and Mahrez and neither were massive money none more than he has spent before.

*I wonder what the reasons were*.
		
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They wanted to win things, not just compete :smirk:


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## Dan2501 (Aug 12, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Arsene has always said if he doesn't think he can do the job he will step down I think it's his way a of putting pressure on himself, it is worth noting that he has just bought two players that he sees as future stars.

Given the stupid money flying around if he gets Mustafi over the line at the numbers being talked about that would be an amazing signing.
		
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Certainly cheaper than the other Everton reject that City bought.


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## Hobbit (Aug 12, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Arsene has always said if he doesn't think he can do the job he will step down I think it's his way a of putting pressure on himself, it is worth noting that he has just bought two players that he sees as future stars.

Given the stupid money flying around if he gets Mustafi over the line at the numbers being talked about that would be an amazing signing.
		
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He's bought lots of future stars in recent years, the majority of which have been safe bets in that they've not flopped. But they've not hit the heights either.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 12, 2016)

Just seen that Arsenal are without Koscielny, Mertesacker and Gabriel for the weekend. No wonder they're after Mustafi. Could have to start with Chambers and Holding at CB against Liverpool. Good luck with that.

Also read that Mustafi's dad has come out and said the agent saying he is working with Mustafi on this transfer doesn't represent him, they've heard nothing about the transfer, and Valencia don't want to sell and instead have put Abdenouur up for sale


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## freddielong (Aug 12, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			So far he has failed to get Vardy and Mahrez and neither were massive money none more than he has spent before.

I wonder what the reasons were.
		
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We didn't get Vardy but we're not after Mahrez


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## Papas1982 (Aug 12, 2016)

Slime said:



			Matt Le Tissier anyone?
I never tire of watching footage of one of the most naturally gifted players I've ever seen.

Oh, don't forget the great Robin Friday.
		
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Personally don't think you'll find a better highlight real on YouTube. 

Yeah he he didn't run around, but that didn't matter. There wasn't one saints player during his time that wouldn't cover the extra miles knowing he was the one that would pull the rabbit out of the hat.


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## Hobbit (Aug 12, 2016)

Slime said:



			Matt Le Tissier anyone?
I never tire of watching footage of one of the most naturally gifted players I've ever seen.

Oh, don't forget the great Robin Friday.
		
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Lazy player on the pitch. As for people making excuses for him being fat... C'mon, it was further evidence of him being lazy.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 12, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Lazy player on the pitch. As for people making excuses for him being fat... C'mon, it was further evidence of him being lazy.
		
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So was ronaldinho.....


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## freddielong (Aug 12, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Lazy player on the pitch. As for people making excuses for him being fat... C'mon, it was further evidence of him being lazy.
		
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He played at a time when you didn't need to be a world class athlete if you were skillful enough, on his day he was unplayable.


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## sawtooth (Aug 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Or risking the board not wanting to keep him?
Sean, do you really believe that apart from a small minority the players will try harder because the managers contract is up for renewal.
		
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My mind must work differently to most but yes I do think that the players will pull together a bit extra  in this the last year of Wengers contract.

Everyone at the club wants to see Wenger go out on a high if indeed it turns out to be his last year.  Otherwise they would want him to stay and extend his contract. For either to happen the players need to achieve top 4 and probably a trophy this season.

Doubters and so called expert pundits say it every year that it's going to be tough for Arsenal to finish top 4 but they always find a way.  I already see plenty of that this season too because people look at the money the others have spent.

City, Utd, Chelsea have all spent loads yes but all have new managers and it may take a while for them to see big improvement.

Arsenal on the other hand have continuity, stability and a lot of promising talented youngsters.

4, 3, 2......what will 2017 bring for Arsenal?


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## Papas1982 (Aug 12, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			My mind must work differently to most but yes I do think that the players will pull together a bit extra  in this the last year of Wengers contract.

Everyone at the club wants to see Wenger go out on a high if indeed it turns out to be his last year.  Otherwise they would want him to stay and extend his contract. For either to happen the players need to achieve top 4 and probably a trophy this season.

Doubters and so called expert pundits say it every year that it's going to be tough for Arsenal to finish top 4 but they always find a way.  I already see plenty of that this season too because people look at the money the others have spent.

City, Utd, Chelsea have all spent loads yes but all have new managers and it may take a while for them to see big improvement.

Arsenal on the other hand have continuity, stability and a lot of promising talented youngsters.

*4, 3, 2......what will 2017 bring for Arsenal?*

Click to expand...

*
*
Careful, you'll be accused of sounding like Liverpool fans there......

fwiw, MOST people I know think top 4 isn't unrealistic for you at all. You're continuity probably makes you the safest bet for that, as a Chelsea could happen to one of your rivals, or new players managers not gel. Likewise MOST people think I know think with Wenger in charge you'll also not get the title.

doesnt Wenger always leave his contract until it's last few months? Remind me how many of those seasons have ended with triumph as the players raise their game for him?

i don't think there's any reason for him to sign yet. Think it makes sense for all to leave it till next year. I'd be surprised if he does t sign another contract as most of the big name managers have recently joined clubs so didn't imagine you getting anyone of note to replace him. Maybe someone? But nit sure you've a squad compatible to his ethics atm.


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## stokie_93 (Aug 12, 2016)

Butland injured again  Just the start to the season we needed


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## Papas1982 (Aug 12, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Butland injured again  Just the start to the season we needed 

Click to expand...

And many a fantasy football team now to be rejigged!


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 12, 2016)

Reports that Messi is coming out of international retirement. 
If true it's just embarrassing.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 12, 2016)

Stokie, also bad for England. Hope it is only a short term injury.


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## sawtooth (Aug 12, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			[/B]
Careful, you'll be accused of sounding like Liverpool fans there......

fwiw, MOST people I know think top 4 isn't unrealistic for you at all. You're continuity probably makes you the safest bet for that, as a Chelsea could happen to one of your rivals, or new players managers not gel. Likewise MOST people think I know think with Wenger in charge you'll also not get the title.

*doesnt Wenger always leave his contract until it's last few months? Remind me how many of those seasons have ended with triumph as the players raise their game for him?
*
i don't think there's any reason for him to sign yet. Think it makes sense for all to leave it till next year. I'd be surprised if he does t sign another contract as most of the big name managers have recently joined clubs so didn't imagine you getting anyone of note to replace him. Maybe someone? But nit sure you've a squad compatible to his ethics atm.
		
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I don't think many thought he would leave much before now. Its really only this last contract when its seriously on the cards. He's not getting any younger and he passes the 20 year anniversary in October. Maybe it is time to call it a day who knows.

We have missed out on a few transfer targets this summer and I am beginning to wonder if its a sign. If Wenger was himself non-committal about his future beyond 2017 then it may be the reason why. Players generally don't come to Arsenal for the wages (they can get higher elsewhere), they come because of Wenger.


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## fundy (Aug 12, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I don't think many thought he would leave much before now. Its really only this last contract when its seriously on the cards. He's not getting any younger and he passes the 20 year anniversary in October. Maybe it is time to call it a day who knows.

We have missed out on a few transfer targets this summer and I am beginning to wonder if its a sign. If Wenger was himself non-committal about his future beyond 2017 then it may be the reason why. Players generally don't come to Arsenal for the wages (they can get higher elsewhere), they come because of Wenger.
		
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Theres a few who are choosing not to sign new contracts too on all accounts, rumour that both Ozil and Sanchez have turned down extensions doesnt bode well. the longer the uncertainty goes on the harder it gets in both attracting new players and keeping the existing ones


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## sawtooth (Aug 12, 2016)

fundy said:



			Theres a few who are choosing not to sign new contracts too on all accounts, rumour that both Ozil and Sanchez have turned down extensions doesnt bode well. the longer the uncertainty goes on the harder it gets in both attracting new players and keeping the existing ones
		
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Yeah that was put to Wenger in the press conference today. He said that both players have 2 yrs contract left to run so there's no panic and nothing to worry about. I guess if they haven't both  signed by Xmas then we should start to worry maybe. Same applies to Wenger really.

Maybe Wenger himself won't want to stay if he felt that he would be out staying his welcome. That would only be the case if it  turns out to be a disaster of a season but I don't see that happening.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 13, 2016)

BIM TV games out for October November the Chelsea match is moved to Sunday 4pm ko as expected prior to HFH.


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## Hobbit (Aug 13, 2016)

freddielong said:



			He played at a time when you didn't need to be a world class athlete if you were skillful enough, on his day he was unplayable.
		
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"On his day," I read as if he was in the mood. Without a doubt a fantastic player, if he was in the mood. He was well capable of disappearing in a game if the ball didn't run for him.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 13, 2016)

Happy new football season one and all.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 13, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			"On his day," I read as if he was in the mood. Without a doubt a fantastic player, if he was in the mood. He was well capable of disappearing in a game if the ball didn't run for him.
		
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For about 7/8 years he was as consistent as any of the best players in the league at that time. 

Having watched most of his career live, he covered plenty of ground. He didn't track back often but that's not what he was on the team for. Unfortunately back then to coverage was limited. So you'd only see his highlight real or the games we played against the big boys.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 13, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			BIM TV games out for October November the Chelsea match is moved to Sunday 4pm ko as expected prior to HFH.
		
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Thanks mate :thup:  a right pain in the posterior that will be; won't be able to host on the Sunday prior to H4H and doesn't make the curry easy either, 2pm would have worked better. :angry:

And before anyone suggests it, no, missing Mourinho's first visit to Stamford Bridge with United is NOT an option!!


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 13, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Thanks mate :thup:  a right pain in the posterior that will be; won't be able to host on the Sunday prior to H4H and doesn't make the curry easy either, 2pm would have worked better. :angry:

And before anyone suggests it, no, missing Mourinho's first visit to Stamford Bridge with United is NOT an option!! 

Click to expand...



Hopefully you'll wish you missed it come 6pm!


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 13, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Hopefully you'll wish you missed it come 6pm! 

Click to expand...

We might have to agree to differ on that one


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 13, 2016)

Can't lie, happy with a point &#128515;


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## Stuart_C (Aug 13, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Can't lie, happy with a point &#128515;
		
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Good point indeed, though Spurs ruined my Fulham/Spurs double


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 13, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Happy new football season one and all.
		
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You're a week late!


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## Stuart_C (Aug 13, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			You're a week late!
		
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Better late than never


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 13, 2016)

Well Leicester screwed my Acca up before it even started. 
They're really going to miss Kante.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 13, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Well Leicester screwed my Acca up before it even started. 
They're really going to miss Kante.
		
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They had plenty of chances to be fair, nobody took them. 
Kante will be loss no doubt but I don't think they missed him today.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 13, 2016)

Anybody see the City game? 
Thoughts?


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## sawtooth (Aug 13, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Anybody see the City game? 
Thoughts?
		
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I thought Stones should have done better on the Defoe goal, Sterling looked as bad as ever and Sunderland were unlucky not to get a point.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 13, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I thought Stones should have done better on the Defoe goal, Sterling looked as bad as ever and Sunderland were unlucky not to get a point.
		
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I'm sure Holding will show Stones how to defend properly tomorrow.

I thought city had tons of possession without doing anything with it. They looked to play mostly down the middle and the few times they used the wide area's they looked threatening.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 13, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I thought Stones should have done better on the Defoe goal, Sterling looked as bad as ever and Sunderland were unlucky not to get a point.
		
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Actually Stones, a player who I think is over rated, was the only one who did anything to try to prevent the goal. He attempted to close Rodwell before the latter released the ball to Defoe.

Sterling had a pretty decent game but, in general, City lacked a sharpness in their approach play. Mind you Navas, in his cameo, looked to have more idea and if Guardiola finds a player in there that would be an achievement.

Agree that a draw would not have flattered Sunderland.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 13, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Actually Stones, a player who I think is over rated, was the only one who did anything to try to prevent the goal. He attempted to close Rodwell before the latter released the ball to Defoe.

Sterling had a pretty decent game but, in general, City lacked a sharpness in their approach play. Mind you Navas, in his cameo, looked to have more idea and if Guardiola finds a player in there that would be an achievement.

Agree that a draw would not have flattered Sunderland.
		
Click to expand...

I thought Sterling had a decent game, he just hasnt  shown any performances for City like he produced for us. After the summer where Hodgson hung him out to dry the Lad is under a lot more scrutiny now.

The positions of city's fullbacks was a weird one, they seemed to be playing centre mid, I don't think they'll be able to play that way against the better sides.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 13, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I thought Sterling had a decent game, he just hasnt  shown any performances for City like he produced for us. After the summer where Hodgson hung him out to dry the Lad is under a lot more scrutiny now.

The positions of city's fullbacks was a weird one, they seemed to be playing centre mid, I don't think they'll be able to play that way against the better sides.
		
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This has been highlighted in a couple of there friendlys, I noticed at the end of last season LVG tried it too. Maybe a theory around overloading centre mid in a possession based philosophy?


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## Stuart_C (Aug 13, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			This has been highlighted in a couple of there friendlys, I noticed at the end of last season LVG tried it too. Maybe a theory around overloading centre mid in a possession based philosophy?
		
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I get that but Sagna's and Clichy's best attributes are attacking down the flanks. It seemed a waste of those players.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 13, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I get that but Sagna's and Clichy's best attributes are attacking down the flanks. It seemed a waste of those players.
		
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Plus it relies upon the opposition not playing with width and your own wingers providing cover. All coaches these days seem obsessed with flooding the centre of the park


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## Stuart_C (Aug 13, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Plus it relies upon the opposition not playing with width and your own wingers providing cover. All coaches these days seem obsessed with flooding the centre of the park
		
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I hate it, get the ball in behind the defence and you've got a good chance of scoring. Passing the ball in front of a 6 man unit is easier to defend.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 13, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I hate it, get the ball in behind the defence and you've got a good chance of scoring. Passing the ball in front of a 6 man unit is easier to defend.
		
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Bang on!

Defenders are generally happy playing facing the ball. Few of them like playing side on or being turned.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 13, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I thought Stones should have done better on the Defoe goal, Sterling looked as bad as ever and Sunderland were unlucky not to get a point.
		
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Having just seen the goal and agree if Stones goes to apply pressure there he has to get there and stop the through ball.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 13, 2016)

How come the cameras have gone into the other stand at Boro, have they extended the other side?


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## garyinderry (Aug 14, 2016)

Everton have a player in gueye.   easily the best player in the first half.   

Pity the rest of his team went into their shells second half.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 14, 2016)

Â£100m for Pogba and Fellaini is starting ahead of him


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Â£100m for Pogba and Fellaini is starting ahead of him  

Click to expand...

Could have been Â£200m,but if he's suspended he's suspended 
ðŸ˜³


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 14, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Â£100m for Pogba and Fellaini is starting ahead of him  

Click to expand...

I think he's suspended or something for one game.


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## Kellfire (Aug 14, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Â£100m for Pogba and Fellaini is starting ahead of him  

Click to expand...

That went well. ðŸ˜


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## Stuart_C (Aug 14, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think he's suspended or something for one game.
		
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I actually knew, just being silly!! 

Anyway I'm off out to watch  the mightys enjoy :cheers:


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I actually knew, just being silly!! 

Anyway I'm off out to watch  the mightys enjoy :cheers:
		
Click to expand...

Of course you did &#128584;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 14, 2016)

Are Arsenal suffering a lot of injuries, I knew they had a couple but that team doesn't look too strong, really don't need the noisey neighbours getting a winning start.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2016)

Bailly looks a very steady player.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 14, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Are Arsenal suffering a lot of injuries, I knew they had a couple but that team doesn't look too strong, really don't need the noisey neighbours getting a winning start.
		
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All the centre halves are crocked and the season not started.


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2016)

Arsenal have 4 (5 at a stretch) of their bext XI starting today, what a hideous way to start the season. No fit senior centre halfs, only summer singing doesnt start nor do those who played in Euros plus a few with injuries. Glass barely half full this year for me, hopefully be proved wrong


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2016)

Moreno's hair tho &#128547;


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2016)

And such a bad player,why is he still there?


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			And such a bad player,why is he still there?
		
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hes been Arsenal best player by a country mile


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2016)

cracking hit from Coutinho that, pretty soft free kick to give away from Holding tho


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2016)

Wenger out after 60mins of new season &#128514;.
Some cracking goals in this game.


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## Kellfire (Aug 14, 2016)

It isn't Arsenal's fault though.


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2016)

who'd have thought it eh, not having anyone able to defend just doesnt work lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 14, 2016)

Will take that :whoo:

The issues are the ones we all know - LB and GK 

But some great attacking play 

Arsenal fans booing already - wonder what the odds are for Xhaka to be the first to be banned


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 14, 2016)

Good game for the nuetral.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2016)

fundy said:



			who'd have thought it eh, not having anyone able to defend just doesnt work lol
		
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Is their a good defence in the Prem? 
No one seems to be able defend anymore.


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## davemc1 (Aug 14, 2016)

Get in!!

hope that's not a sign of things to come tho


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## anotherdouble (Aug 14, 2016)

There's never an Arsenal fan around when you need one &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 14, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			It isn't Arsenal's fault though.
		
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I missed it, did they bottle it?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 14, 2016)

Well there's two teams that will entertain the neutrals this season but very unlikely to challenge for the title if that is typical of their defending.

Sorry Phil but it wasn't just the keeper and left-back. The centre-backs were still shaky and Clyne is terrific going forward but still dodgy defensively.

As for Arsenal their defensive problems were so great it was even making Cech look nervous.


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## Kellfire (Aug 14, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			I missed it, did they bottle it?
		
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I was just getting in before the Arsenal fans did with the deflection.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			I missed it, did they bottle it?
		
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Some good goals tbf. 
But both defences look poor. 
Moreno is so bad.


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## Stuey01 (Aug 14, 2016)

I'm an Arsenal fan.  There's no excuse to be starting the season with a defence in such a shambolic state and having not addressed the glaring holes in the squad.  It's basically negligent.
day after day we hear about all our rivals making big signings, strengthening and the silence from Arsenal is deafening.   I'm fed up to the back teeth of it.


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## Hobbit (Aug 14, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Formed my opinion purely on what I have seen of Holding in an Arsenal shirt pre-season.

I know it's early days but he doesn't look out of place. The way our injuries have gone he might even get a game on Subday against Liverpool. That will be a big test for him and it will be interesting to see how he copes.

At 20 he looks a very good prospect.
		
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pbrown7582 said:



			All the centre halves are crocked and the season not started.
		
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But Holding is the best thing since sliced bread. Arsenal are rock solid with Holding in the back four. They're hardly likely to ship more than the odd goal at home with Holding in the line up...


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## Stuart_C (Aug 14, 2016)

Holding looked like Franz beckenbaur today.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 14, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Well there's two teams that will entertain the neutrals this season but very unlikely to challenge for the title if that is typical of their defending.

Sorry Phil but it wasn't just the keeper and left-back. The centre-backs were still shaky and Clyne is terrific going forward but still dodgy defensively.

As for Arsenal their defensive problems were so great it was even making Cech look nervous.
		
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Good point. Cracking game for the armchair but both sides have clear issues defensively. Wonder if Klopp has adopted the old Keegan tactic from when Newcastle were title challengers, and simply going for the "we'll score one more than you" ethos


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## Bunkermagnet (Aug 14, 2016)

After that performance by Moreno, I do wonder why we let Brad Smith go to Bournemouth, ok with a 2 yr buy back clause...but why let him go?


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## USER1999 (Aug 14, 2016)

What I expected. Tactically naive, no defence,  lots of tippy tappy backwards stuff. A few moments of individual brilliance, but team wise,  that was rubbish. I've never been so flat going into a new season.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 14, 2016)

Bunkermagnet said:



			After that performance by Moreno, I do wonder why we let Brad Smith go to Bournemouth, ok with a 2 yr buy back clause...but why let him go?
		
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Apart from his stupid challenge for the pen and the one on iwobi (I think ) in the 1st half I don't think he had a bad game. He certainly wasn't at fault  for the goal despite what super pundit Neville said. 

We'd started to attack and it's obvious the manager wants our fullbacks to be our outlet when we break and Moreno was doing just that. Lallana lost the ball in a position he shouldn't have and Moreno was already attacking giving Lallana the option.


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## Paperboy (Aug 14, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Apart from his stupid challenge for the pen and the one on iwobi (I think ) in the 1st half I don't think he had a bad game. He certainly wasn't at fault  for the goal despite what super pundit Neville said. 

We'd started to attack and it's obvious the manager wants our fullbacks to be our outlet when we break and Moreno was doing just that. Lallana lost the ball in a position he shouldn't have and Moreno was already attacking giving Lallana the option.
		
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Stu, are Gomez and Flanagan injured again/still. Would rather either of those over Moreno. See him as more suited to midfield.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 14, 2016)

Paperboy said:



			Stu, are Gomez and Flanagan injured again/still. Would rather either of those over Moreno. See him as more suited to midfield.
		
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Flanagan is on loan at burnley and Gomez is still getting back to fitness.

Don't get me wrong I'd like to see Moreno replaced long term but he wasn't at fault today but I  think he's become a scapegoat.

Gomez is a right footed CB iirc.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 14, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Apart from his stupid challenge for the pen and the one on iwobi (I think ) in the 1st half I don't think he had a bad game. He certainly wasn't at fault  for the goal despite what super pundit Neville said. 

We'd started to attack and it's obvious the manager wants our fullbacks to be our outlet when we break and Moreno was doing just that. Lallana lost the ball in a position he shouldn't have and Moreno was already attacking giving Lallana the option.
		
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To give him the benefit of the doubt, Lallana shouldnt have given it away so easy, but he doesnt deserve the benefit Stu, he's a nightmare waiting to happen.

He thinks he can win every tackle, dives in when no need, doesnt know how to jockey a player, and he defends out to in, instead of in to out. He's a terrible defender, and I dont think coaching will change him - he hasnt a brain. He's even making Djimi Traore look sensible.

I didnt think we were anything special today, outside of the goals, so could be a long season for us and Arsenal. We desparately need a new left back and also for Karius to be given a run, when he's fit again.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 14, 2016)

Talking about doing silly things, Clyne challenge for the 3rd goal free kick, so silly something that annoys me why do professionals give away so many silly free kicks!


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 14, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Talking about doing silly things, Clyne challenge for the 3rd goal free kick, so silly something that annoys me why do professionals give away so many silly free kicks!
		
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That's Lucas's job, so nice to see the responsibility being shared around.


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## Paperboy (Aug 14, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Gomez is a right footed CB iirc.
		
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Thought he played left back beginning of last season?

Or have I got mixed up with a different youngster?


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## davemc1 (Aug 14, 2016)

Moreno either can't or won't defend. He hasn't learnt to jockey, or to stay on his feet. A total lilability. Anyone know a left back who loves defending? It's a dying art.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 15, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			To give him the benefit of the doubt, Lallana shouldnt have given it away so easy, but he doesnt deserve the benefit Stu, he's a nightmare waiting to happen.

He thinks he can win every tackle, dives in when no need, doesnt know how to jockey a player, and he defends out to in, instead of in to out. He's a terrible defender, and I dont think coaching will change him - he hasnt a brain. He's even making Djimi Traore look sensible.

I didnt think we were anything special today, outside of the goals, so could be a long season for us and Arsenal. We desparately need a new left back and also for Karius to be given a run, when he's fit again.
		
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I agree on the whole, I was just pointing out he wasn't to blame for the goal.

The challenge on iwobi up the arsenal end near the byline, where all's he had to do was stand and jockey him,instead he for in and gave a free kick away.

Anyway, I hope sawtooth and Freddielong are ok


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## USER1999 (Aug 15, 2016)

It all becomes clear. The French man has spoken. We weren't ready, it's as simple as that. Us fans mustn't worry, because when the team are ready, we will be fine and dandy.

Wow. Perhaps Arsenal might have been a bit more ready if their manager hadn't spent the off season swanning about in France doing commentary for French TV,  while trousering 8 million pounds a year from his employers.

It's not as if the date of the start of the premiership wasn't in the diary.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 15, 2016)

murphthemog said:



			It all becomes clear. The French man has spoken. We weren't ready, it's as simple as that. Us fans mustn't worry, because when the team are ready, we will be fine and dandy.

Wow. Perhaps Arsenal might have been a bit more ready if their manager hadn't spent the off season swanning about in France doing commentary for French TV,  while trousering 8 million pounds a year from his employers.

It's not as if the date of the start of the premiership wasn't in the diary.
		
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I was surprised to hear the comments. If they weren't ready then him and his staff haven't done there job very well.

I'm sure the wenger apologists will be along to defend him.


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## sawtooth (Aug 15, 2016)

murphthemog said:



			It all becomes clear. The French man has spoken. We weren't ready, it's as simple as that. Us fans mustn't worry, because when the team are ready, we will be fine and dandy.

Wow. Perhaps Arsenal might have been a bit more ready if their manager hadn't spent the off season swanning about in France doing commentary for French TV,  while trousering 8 million pounds a year from his employers.

It's not as if the date of the start of the premiership wasn't in the diary.
		
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The dates of the Euro's and Copa America were known as well but you can't go changing those Im afraid. 

We lost a lot of senior players before today it's just how it is. Wenger cannot backfill with mediocre replacements as they take up valuable space in the squad. Need to replace quality with quality and it's not been easy to find. Hopefully Mustafi is coming in this week though. Holding is quality but he is a youngster he will need time to flourish.

We lost out opening game last year as well and you probably had the same apocalyptic view back then.

My advice would be to support the team and manager in defeat as well as winning because you get both and the season is long.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 15, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			The dates of the Euro's and Copa America were known as well but you can't go changing those Im afraid. 

We lost a lot of senior players before today it's just how it is. Wenger cannot backfill with mediocre replacements as they take up valuable space in the squad. Need to replace quality with quality and it's not been easy to find. Hopefully Mustafi is coming in this week though. Holding is quality but he is a youngster he will need time to flourish.

We lost out opening game last year as well and you probably had the same apocalyptic view back then.

My advice would be to support the team and manager in defeat as well as winning because you get both and the season is long.
		
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Well said, no other team faces the issues Arsenal do and as soon as everyone else realise that the better!
These teams with no overseas players are lucky.:rofl:


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## sawtooth (Aug 15, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Well said, no other team faces the issues Arsenal do and as soon as everyone else realise that the better!
These teams with no overseas players are lucky.:rofl:
		
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My take on injuries, tiredness, extended break etc be it caused by internationals or pre season friendlies etc is....

It happens, get on with it.

No point spitting dummies out and as you say it's not like Areenal are the only team in the position of having many senior players missing.


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## Kellfire (Aug 15, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			We lost out opening game last year as well and you probably had the same apocalyptic view back then.
		
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And how did last season go again?

No trophies and sneaked second place in the weakest quality season in years?


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## sawtooth (Aug 15, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			And how did last season go again?

No trophies and sneaked third place in the weakest quality season in years?
		
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We came second , it was a good year.

Unless you support Leicester you are in no position to criticise.


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## USER1999 (Aug 15, 2016)

Arsenal have won the opening game of the season once in 8 years. That's not a sign of preparation, it's a sign of incompetence.

Other teams also have missing players. They still manage to win games.

Effectively Arsenal are the same team that failed in the Champions league last year. They are making no effort to use their resources to improve the team,  and I expect the same results as usual. 4th place, and last 16. Ground hog day.

To see it any differently is delusional.

What's the point in having 200 million in the bank, if you can't find better players to spend it on. It's not like the squad is packed full of world class talent, is it. They shouldn't be looking to buy back up players, but ones to make the players already there the back ups.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 15, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			My take on injuries, tiredness, extended break etc be it caused by internationals or pre season friendlies etc is....

It happens, get on with it.

No point spitting dummies out and as you say it's not like Areenal are the only team in the position of having many senior players missing.
		
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But not one mention of the game yesterday, no honest critique, nothing that gave you hope or annoyed you, just a load of excuses,


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 15, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			The dates of the Euro's and Copa America were known as well but you can't go changing those Im afraid.
		
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That's a very poor argument in my opinion. The date of the opening weekend of the Premier League is also well known and its the managers job to have a squad ready for that date. It's not like someone from the FA jumped out from behind a Bush at Arsenal's training ground on Thursday and said "Surprise, you've got you first Premier League game this weekend".


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## sawtooth (Aug 15, 2016)

murphthemog said:



			Arsenal have won the opening game of the season once in 8 years. That's not a sign of preparation, it's a sign of incompetence.

Other teams also have missing players. They still manage to win games.

Effectively Arsenal are the same team that failed in the Champions league last year. They are making no effort to use their resources to improve the team,  and I expect the same results as usual. 4th place, and last 16. Ground hog day.

To see it any differently is delusional.

What's the point in having 200 million in the bank, if you can't find better players to spend it on. It's not like the squad is packed full of world class talent, is it. They shouldn't be looking to buy back up players, but ones to make the players already there the back ups.
		
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Wenger is trying to bring in a CB and striker. if we can get those in and our players back fit then we will do just fine.

Or are you suggesting major rework?

Top quality players that are available are not that easy to find.


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## Kellfire (Aug 15, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			We came second , it was a good year.

Unless you support Leicester you are in no position to criticise.
		
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Apologies, I meant second, I edited just before you replied.

And that is a nonsense argument. I am absolutely in a position to criticise as the only thing we are discussing here is Arsenal and you implied that you had a good season when you demonstrably had a relatively poor one.

The final league positions of other teams doesn't directly influence the fact that the league was weak last year and Arsenal (easily the most settled team in terms of personnel) didn't take their best chance to win it by a long shot.

Football isn't a case of "If your team don't do something, you can't criticise my team for not doing it". That's pure playground antics!

I support Man Utd. We were rubbish last year. We won the cup but that didn't make us have a good season.


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## USER1999 (Aug 15, 2016)

They have been looking for a striker for 4 years. To have not found one is pretty poor, given the cash in the attic.

They need 2 centrebacks, and a right winger too. A proper winger. Not Campbell,  Walcott , oxlade chamberlain, Ramsey,  or any one else who would rather play in a different position.

No, not a total make over, just some basic improvements. Certain players are just not good enough, and others are getting older.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 15, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Wenger is trying to bring in a CB and striker. if we can get those in and our players back fit then we will do just fine.

Or are you suggesting major rework?

Top quality players on the cheap, want to play for Arsenal, no other club has spotted, whose wife likes London, was a boyhood Arsenal fan, that dislikes Spurs, that wants to take a pay cut, loves to talk about the unbeaten season, dreams about playing for Wenger and that are available are not that easy to find.
		
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Fixed that for you&#128515;


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## Dan2501 (Aug 15, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Wenger is trying to bring in a CB and striker. if we can get those in and our players back fit then we will do just fine.

Or are you suggesting major rework?

Top quality players that are available are not that easy to find.
		
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If they're not that easy to find, how come teams across the country have managed to spend Â£475m on players? Been tons of top players moving around Europe all summer and yet Wenger seems to find it so hard to find any that are available. Arsenal have been in need of another centre back and a striker for a good 3 or 4 seasons now. Koscielny is class but he needs a world-class partner and has done for a while. Just seems like the same old story every year for Arsenal and everyone but Arsenal fans seems to notice. This year is the most competitive Premier League season possibly of all-time on paper. City, United, Chelsea and Liverpool have made big steps with new managers, new systems and new players and are showing clear desire to improve. For Arsenal it's just the same old story, and I'm amazed more gooners aren't kicking up a fuss. I'd be fuming, they've got Â£200m in the bank and starting the Premier League season with Holding and Chambers at centre back.


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## Kellfire (Aug 15, 2016)

We always hear that Wenger doesn't want players who don't want to play for Arsenal.

What a cop out - part of his (and Arsenal's) job is to sell Arsenal to players so they want to join. 

Man Utd have been able to make marquee signings consistently, even when not in the Champions League. Liverpool are good at it, as well to a lesser extent. Arsenal seem to struggle to get over the finishing line with some big signings even with the draw of London and CL football. Why? What is Wenger failing to do? What is the world on the street amongst the players that puts so many good players off? Is it Wenger himself?


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## Dan2501 (Aug 15, 2016)

So many defenders from around the world have been sold this year too, Wenger could have gone in for one of them. Umtiti, Hummels, Benatia, Bailly, Matip, Rudiger, N'Koulou, Bartra, Naldo, Mammana, Castan, and even Stones and Williams would have been better options than Chambers and Holding. All available and all sold this summer.

As for strikers. You've got Higuain, Batshuayi, Zlatan, Morata, Gameiro, Milik, Hulk, Embolo, Musa, Janssen, Vazquez, Volland, Jese and Ben Yedder. All available, all sold this summer


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## stokie_93 (Aug 15, 2016)

Mixed emotions in terms of my team on Saturday.

Happy with a draw at Boro but they were there for the taking. They should've been 2-0 up at half time we were that bad.

Missing Glen Johnson in the team and Pieters had his worst game in a Stoke top. Shawcross looked a lot more solid 2nd half and Butland only out for 2 weeks which is great news.

Our midfield looks great but we so obviously need a striker, no output from midfield to attack it's all just knock it a round and hope something happens.

Was dreading playing City next week but they weren't great this weekend, have to wait and see!


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## sawtooth (Aug 15, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



			So many defenders from around the world have been sold this year too, Wenger could have gone in for one of them. Umtiti, Hummels, Benatia, Bailly, Matip, Rudiger, N'Koulou, Bartra, Naldo, Mammana, Castan, and even Stones and Williams would have been better options than Chambers and Holding. All available and all sold this summer.


As for strikers. You've got Higuain, Batshuayi, Zlatan, Morata, Gameiro, Milik, Hulk, Embolo, Musa, Janssen, Vazquez, Volland, Jese and Ben Yedder. All available, all sold this summer
		
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Our CB problem started only a few weeks ago with Metersacker was injured. The problem became serious when Gabriel was injured barely a week ago.

Hindsight is something only armchair managers have unfortunately. Wenger brought in Holding and hopefully Mustafi will sign later this week.

I'm not against Wenger buying a good promising English centre back (Holding) . I think that's a positive thing.  Mustafi is proven quality so no complaints there either.

Any new CB partnership will look at odds with each other doesn't matter who they are. So no complaints there either.

As for a striker , again it's not like we are not trying to do something. Still hopeful that Wenger will sign one of his targets before the window closes. Personally I don't think we have a crisis in the scoring goals department but admit that we do need reinforcements as the games come thick and fast during the season.


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## fundy (Aug 15, 2016)

sawtooth said:



*Our CB problem started only a few weeks* ago with Metersacker was injured. The problem became serious when Gabriel was injured barely a week ago.

Hindsight is something only armchair managers have unfortunately. Wenger brought in Holding and hopefully Mustafi will sign later this week.

I'm not against Wenger buying a good promising English centre back (Holding) . I think that's a positive thing.  Mustafi is proven quality so no complaints there either.

Any new CB partnership will look at odds with each other doesn't matter who they are. So no complaints there either.

As for a striker , again it's not like we are not trying to do something. Still hopeful that Wenger will sign one of his targets before the window closes. Personally I don't think we have a crisis in the scoring goals department but admit that we do need reinforcements as the games come thick and fast during the season.
		
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Take the tinted glasses off lol. We went into last season with only 3 proper centre halves in the squad (yet 93 small attacking midfielders). And of those 3 only 1 is close to being top class, the other 2 are no more than adequate and none of them are proper leaders. Reliant on using inadequate full backs as cover for injuries and suspension. You can actually go back further that too, not really had a top class centre half pairing for getting on for 10 years. Balance of the squad is totally wrong and has been for a while


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 15, 2016)

Stones for Williams 
Lukarku for Charlie Austin you sure you just got a rich investor not an asset stripper?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 15, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Stones for Williams 
Lukarku for Charlie Austin you sure you just got a rich investor not an asset stripper? 

Click to expand...

Is from the same source that told you weeks ago we'd signed Mata&#128515;


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 15, 2016)

Bolassie has officially signed for Everton. We have paid over the top but that is the market and we have the Stones money banked to cover it. He will certainly add pace to the team, I don't know enough about him to say more. Pace in a team is always a good thing though. 

Could Hart be next? Looking at the top teams it is Everton and Liverpool who need a top keeper, the others have that position covered. I assume City have someone lined up to replace him as Cabellero is pretty poor for their level IMO. I'd take Hart.


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## stokie_93 (Aug 15, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Bolassie has officially signed for Everton. We have paid over the top but that is the market and we have the Stones money banked to cover it. He will certainly add pace to the team, I don't know enough about him to say more. Pace in a team is always a good thing though. 

Could Hart be next? Looking at the top teams it is Everton and Liverpool who need a top keeper, the others have that position covered. I assume City have someone lined up to replace him as Cabellero is pretty poor for their level IMO. I'd take Hart.
		
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Looks like Bravo is going to City.
Really strange one as Hart is a good player, saying that not really seen much of Bravo recently.

Stekelenberg looked really good for you on Saturday and saved a point for you, that save from Lamela was brilliant.

Without being offensive I don't think Hart will want to make that much of a jump down from Champions League & there's plenty of clubs that would probably take him both over here and abroad.

Think Begovic would be an ideal signing for yourself.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 15, 2016)

Liverpool bought Karius who is very good, and was one of the top keepers in the Bundesliga last year, just unfortunately for them, he got injured. 

I'd happily take Hart at Everton. Again, will be hugely over-priced but he's a class keeper.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 15, 2016)

Don't want Hart, if he's dodgy with a top defence, he'd be a liability for us.


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## Kellfire (Aug 15, 2016)

Arsenal fans don't like me - they never reply to my points or questions. :'(


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## Rooter (Aug 15, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Arsenal fans don't like me - they never reply to my points or questions. :'(
		
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you should add a poll. Arsenal fans love a poll!


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 15, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Looks like Bravo is going to City.
Really strange one as Hart is a good player, saying that not really seen much of Bravo recently.

Stekelenberg looked really good for you on Saturday and saved a point for you, that save from Lamela was brilliant.

Without being offensive I don't think Hart will want to make that much of a jump down from Champions League & there's plenty of clubs that would probably take him both over here and abroad.

Think Begovic would be an ideal signing for yourself.
		
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I agree about Begovic, I'd love him. I didn't think about Hart as I didn't see him as being available. With regards as to whether he would come in normal terms I would agree. We are not challenging for the title, nor are we in Europe. However if you look at the top teams, Man Utd, Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal, Leicester they all have keepers of the equal or better than Hart. You then get into the Southampton, Everton, Stoke, West Ham level. Southampton and Stoke have two quality keepers, the West Ham lad looks okay too. As someone has mentioned Liverpool have bought someone otherwise he would come in ahead of Mignolet. Unless he goes abroad I see Everton being the highest team he can get into, unless I have missed a team. Up to Hart to choose where he wants to be.


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## sawtooth (Aug 15, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			We always hear that Wenger doesn't want players who don't want to play for Arsenal.

What a cop out - part of his (and Arsenal's) job is to sell Arsenal to players so they want to join. 

Man Utd have been able to make marquee signings consistently, even when not in the Champions League. Liverpool are good at it, as well to a lesser extent. Arsenal seem to struggle to get over the finishing line with some big signings even with the draw of London and CL football. Why? What is Wenger failing to do? What is the world on the street amongst the players that puts so many good players off? Is it Wenger himself?
		
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We'll probably never know but it's likely to be money. Not just the fee, wages but often the parasitic agents.

Arsenal just wont pay over the odds for a player and IMO if you are in bidding war then it's better to step away because the player is probably not worth fighting for.

Utd, City and Chelsea are willing to part with large sums all day long and if it doesnt work out then no problem they buy more. 

I accept that certain players will sign for Utd because they are United but this won't apply to Chelsea or City quite the same way.


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## USER1999 (Aug 15, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Arsenal fans don't like me - they never reply to my points or questions. :'(
		
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I don't need to. I think my views on Arsenal and Wenger are pretty well known.


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## USER1999 (Aug 15, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			We'll probably never know but it's likely to be money. Not just the fee, wages but often the parasitic agents.

Arsenal just wont pay over the odds for a player and IMO if you are in bidding war then it's better to step away because the player is probably not worth fighting for.

Utd, City and Chelsea are willing to part with large sums all day long and if it doesnt work out then no problem they buy more. 

I accept that certain players will sign for Utd because they are United but this won't apply to Chelsea or City quite the same way.
		
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Quite a few players had Arsenal as a first choice, Mhkitarian and Mahrez to name a couple, but most of the time Arsenal never even put a bid in, despite showing interest with the player and his agent.
If you want to buy players, you have to be in the market. 

I don't think there has been a coherent transfer strategy for 5 plus years. There's no identifying what is needed, draw up a short list, and go out and get what you need about Arsenal. If the best the scouting team could come up with was Vardy, they can't be working very hard. We have ended up with a team of busy midfield midgets. Even Ozil and Sanchez weren't planned, they were an accident, when the selling clubs needed to balance the books.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 15, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Bolassie has officially signed for Everton. We have paid over the top but that is the market and we have the Stones money banked to cover it. He will certainly add pace to the team, I don't know enough about him to say more. Pace in a team is always a good thing though. 

Could Hart be next? Looking at the top teams it is Everton and Liverpool who need a top keeper, the others have that position covered. I assume City have someone lined up to replace him as Cabellero is pretty poor for their level IMO. I'd take Hart.
		
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I think Bolasie is a good player, and someone who can play on the wing, or up front. Still raw in terms of application at times, but very strong, direct and skillful.

I'd have Hart over mignolet, or Robles anyday. Whether Stekelenberg is the same standard, better or worse, I dont know.

Overall, them two signings I think would be good for the blues, and will improve you.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 15, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Is from the same source that told you weeks ago we'd signed Mata&#128515;
		
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Deal was all set not my fault he sacked our retirement home off...... :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Aug 15, 2016)

Good to see the refs still don't know the difference between a foul and a yellow card.

Shocking decision to book Kante.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 15, 2016)

Oscar just got a 9.5 for the execution.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 15, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Oscar just got a 9.5 for the execution.
		
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With the new rules on mouthing back to the ref Costa won't last long 

This ref is poor - every foul a booking ?!


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 15, 2016)

You wait until there's a debatable last man foul on the edge of the box.

Free kick outside and red card or penalty and a yellow card.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 15, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			With the new rules on mouthing back to the ref Costa won't last long 

This ref is poor - every foul a booking ?!
		
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He's ruined the game.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 15, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			You wait until there's a debatable last man foul on the edge of the box.

Free kick outside and red card or penalty and a yellow card. 

Click to expand...

It's pathetic


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 15, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Oscar just got a 9.5 for the execution.
		
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Theatrical I agree, but still a penalty.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 15, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Theatrical I agree, but still a penalty.
		
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Never a penalty that Sir.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 15, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Never a penalty that Sir.
		
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Stick a stiff arm across William's chest like Reid did as he is running and it is a penalty in the modern game.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 15, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Stick a stiff arm across William's chest like Reid did as he is running and it is a penalty in the modern game.
		
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Sorry mickie, I think we've crossed wires, I was talking about the pen that wasn't given in the 1st half and not the actual pen that was given.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 15, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Sorry mickie, I think we've crossed wires, I was talking about the pen that wasn't given in the 1st half and not the actual pen that was given.
		
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So was I!


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## Stuart_C (Aug 15, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			So was I!
		
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Oops sorry Mickie, Still not a pen though. 

That's the problem,too many pens have wrongly been given in previous years and now those are pens in the modern game.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 15, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Oops sorry Mickie, Still not a pen though. 

That's the problem,too many pens have wrongly been given in previous years and now those are pens in the modern game.
		
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I agree but if it is now usual for them to be given then they all have to be given.

Thing is it is a game for "Big Jessies" these days but them's the rules.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 15, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			He's ruined the game.
		
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Sorry Stu, he wasn't that good.  If that's the standard of refereeing we can expect God help us.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Sorry Stu, he wasn't that good.  If that's the standard of refereeing we can expect God help us.
		
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It makes me wonder what the assessors are watching  when  they assess these refs. I'd like to read some of those reports.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 16, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Sorry Stu, he wasn't that good.  If that's the standard of refereeing we can expect God help us.
		
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It will be worse than last year. I can see referees being a big talking point and the new law changes making it harder for them to referee with any discretion. Chelsea looked an effective unit last night. Much tighter front to back


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## Kellfire (Aug 16, 2016)

Finally caught up on Sunday's games. I liked the look of United in that second half - much quicker at breaking, the front four happy to interchange positions and all making direct runs rather than worrying first and foremost about keeping possession. Hopefully a sign of things to come as the players get used to the system. With Mhkitaryan and Pogba to also get starts, it's exciting times at Old Trafford.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 16, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			It will be worse than last year. I can see referees being a big talking point and the new law changes making it harder for them to referee with any discretion. Chelsea looked an effective unit last night. Much tighter front to back
		
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Discretion is where inconsistancies occur though?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 16, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Discretion is where inconsistancies occur though?
		
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I don't think you should be questioning qualified officials :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 16, 2016)

So how when Taylor was booking people for nothing tackles he then did nothing when Costa was late studs up on the GK. It was borderline red but a clear yellow card


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## Dan2501 (Aug 16, 2016)

I thought the ref got the big decisions right last night. The penalty decision he gave was correct, the one he didn't also correct, and Costa just miss-timed going for the ball against the keeper, didn't deserve to be sent off for it. Keeper made a massive meal of it trying to get him sent off, but Costa was legitimately going for the ball. It was a foul, but not a booking for me.


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## garyinderry (Aug 16, 2016)

Had he not been booked it was surely a yellow.   I'd give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.    caught the keeper a sore one alright.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



			I thought the ref got the big decisions right last night. The penalty decision he gave was correct, the one he didn't also correct, and Costa just miss-timed going for the ball against the keeper, didn't deserve to be sent off for it. Keeper made a massive meal of it trying to get him sent off, _*but Costa was legitimately going for the ball. It was a foul, but not a booking for me*_.
		
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90% of yellow cards are for the same as you've described, it was a foul and yellow but the ref bottled it. If he'd hadn't have been booked previously I'm sure he'd have been booked.


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## stokie_93 (Aug 16, 2016)

I'd love a 50/50 challenge with Costa


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 16, 2016)

It'll all balance out at the end of the season, daft to think we won't have controversey, next week Everton, week after Swansea etc.

Difficult to see what the Refs see and they get one shout.

Read the thread about Lamps, Stevie G and Scholes, differeing opinions, some said 2 of them were thugs.

Anyone else but Costa it wouldn't be mentioned, he's a marked man and opposition know this.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 16, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			It will be worse than last year. I can see referees being a big talking point and the new law changes making it harder for them to referee with any discretion. Chelsea looked an effective unit last night. Much tighter front to back
		
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They did, but they should do if they play Matip and kante (an Italian perspective, possibly).

To be fair, sorting the defence and building from there, should be a few other managers priority, ourselves included.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 16, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So how when Taylor was booking people for nothing tackles he then did nothing when Costa was late studs up on the GK. It was borderline red but a clear yellow card
		
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It was.

however, the first 3-4 times I saw it, I just thought the keeper was doing the extra rolls to get costa sent off, but only after a few replays did it show how high and dangerous it was. Think the lino should have spotted it better than the ref. Costa had a right to tackle the keeper in that situation, although if you hit someone shin high, it buckles there ankle it should have seen him off.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 16, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			It'll all balance out at the end of the season, daft to think we won't have controversey, next week Everton, week after Swansea etc.

Difficult to see what the Refs see and they get one shout.

Read the thread about Lamps, Stevie G and Scholes, differeing opinions, some said 2 of them were thugs.

Anyone else but Costa it wouldn't be mentioned, he's a marked man and opposition know this.
		
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It never balances itself out over a season. ClichÃ©d, and untrue.:thup:


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 16, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So how when Taylor was booking people for nothing tackles he then did nothing when Costa was late studs up on the GK. It was borderline red but a clear yellow card
		
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bottled it!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 16, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			It never balances itself out over a season. ClichÃ©d, and untrue.:thup:
		
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I genuinely think it does, no official intentionally makes a bad decision, you yourself said the decision last night was wrong after you watched replays.
Very few of us call every bad decision against our own team.
Please feel free to show me were a team has only had bad decisions against them.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 16, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I genuinely think it does, no official intentionally makes a bad decision, you yourself said the decision last night was wrong after you watched replays.
Very few of us call every bad decision against our own team.
Please feel free to show me were a team has only had bad decisions against them.
		
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When Everton called in the FA and the refs, as they hadn't had a penalty in about 18 months.:thup:

The big/successful teams definitely get more. We benefitted years ago, to a degree, we still do more than most.

Ferguson had the refs round his little finger, no away team got an away pen in about 3 years at one point. Terry, Rooney, Gerrard tried to ref the match themselves for years, and got away with dissent far too many times. Duncan Ferguson, Niall Quinn, Andy Carroll and Peter Crouch can have their shirts ripped off their backs and no foul, they slightly touch someone and its given as a foul etc.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 16, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			When Everton called in the FA and the refs, as they hadn't had a penalty in about 18 months.:thup:

The big/successful teams definitely get more. We benefitted years ago, to a degree, we still do more than most.

Ferguson had the refs round his little finger, no away team got an away pen in about 3 years at one point. Terry, Rooney, Gerrard tried to ref the match themselves for years, and got away with dissent far too many times. Duncan Ferguson, Niall Quinn, Andy Carroll and Peter Crouch can have their shirts ripped off their backs and no foul, they slightly touch someone and its given as a foul etc.
		
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We've also benefitted from dodgy decisions just like Terry, Gerard and Rooney, Carroll was all over the Chelsea players last night.
We all benefit and we all moan.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 16, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			We've also benefitted from dodgy decisions just like Terry, Gerard and Rooney, Carroll was all over the Chelsea players last night.
We all benefit and we all moan.
		
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You know the point, I'm making,mate.

We have all had and will also get ones go our way for us and against us, there is no doubt. 

I'ts the statement that it is evenly spread, that isn't true.


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## Hosel Fade (Aug 16, 2016)

Just been and watched the highlights, Reid on Oscar is a stonewall penalty, to say otherwise is silly.

Costas is a crap challenge that is a clear as day booking as well


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 16, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			You know the point, I'm making,mate.

We have all had and will also get ones go our way for us and against us, there is no doubt. 

I'ts the statement that it is evenly spread, that isn't true.
		
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We'll agree to disagree then mate, I genuinely don't believe any team benefits from more good than bad decisions, although I would say certain players are treated unfairly, both good and bad.


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## ger147 (Aug 16, 2016)

Hart on the way out of Man City according to SSN...


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## Fish (Aug 16, 2016)

ger147 said:



			Hart on the way out of Man City according to SSN...
		
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Pep's after buying and bringing in Claudio Bravo, not sure Hart is destined to go abroad so Everton could be a serious option with their new found wealth :smirk:


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## Papas1982 (Aug 16, 2016)

ger147 said:



			Hart on the way out of Man City according to SSN...
		
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Hopefully that'll give butland or Forster a chance for England now that he's not a top four keeper.


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## ger147 (Aug 16, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Hopefully that'll give butland or Forster a chance for England now that he's not a top four keeper.
		
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Forster should be England's No.1 IMO.


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## Tarkus1212 (Aug 16, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



			I thought the ref got the big decisions right last night. The penalty decision he gave was correct, the one he didn't also correct, and Costa just miss-timed going for the ball against the keeper, didn't deserve to be sent off for it. Keeper made a massive meal of it trying to get him sent off, but Costa was legitimately going for the ball. It was a foul, but not a booking for me.
		
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I thought the ref had a shocker, from the third minute when he booked Kante for a nothing foul. I thought Reid on Oscar was a definite penalty, if the ref didn't then he should have booked Oscar - got it wrong twice!

Carroll conned the ref, getting Dave booked without him making any contact, the ball hit Carroll and he went down clutching his head as if he'd been bludgeoned by a mad axeman. That free kick led to West Ham scoring.

Costa's challenge was a definite booking and although a straight red would have been harsh it wouldn't have been a surprise.

Looks like another season where we'll be discussing the paucity of the officials.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 16, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			We'll agree to disagree then mate, I genuinely don't believe any team benefits from more good than bad decisions, although I would say certain players are treated unfairly, both good and bad.
		
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So can we agree that Merseyside derbies have been absolutely even over the years then?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 16, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			So can we agree that Merseyside derbies have been absolutely even over the years then?

Click to expand...

Completely, except 1, Dave Hamiltons goal in the semi-final, won't forgive Clive Thomas :rofl:


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 16, 2016)

ger147 said:



			Hart on the way out of Man City according to SSN...
		
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I said this way back Pep is not impressed by his play with the at his feet.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 16, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			I said this way back Pep is not impressed by his play with the at his feet.
		
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Rumour has it Hart wants to stay in England and Everton looking for a loan deal initially. Think that's a good result for all parties


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 16, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Rumour has it Hart wants to stay in England and Everton looking for a loan deal initially. Think that's a good result for all parties
		
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Yeah I bet Hart is chomping at the bit to join Everton.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 16, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yeah I bet Hart is chomping at the bit to join Everton.
		
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If it keeps him in the UK and playing PL football and therefore in Big Sam's mind regularly why not?


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## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yeah I bet Hart is chomping at the bit to join Everton.
		
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Is Hart really that good were he could potentially pick any top 6 side? I don't think he is. He's not better than De Gea,Courtois, Lloris,Cech, Adrian, Better than schmicheal possibly though I'm not sure. 

He's obviously better than Mingolet but I wouldn't have him long term. 

Everton,Stoke, Southampton is probably his true level.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Completely, except 1, Dave Hamiltons goal in the semi-final, won't forgive Clive Thomas :rofl:
		
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Have you forgiven Moysies mate Clattenburg?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 16, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Is Hart really that good were he could potentially pick any top 6 side? I don't think he is. He's not better than De Gea,Courtois, Lloris,Cech, Adrian, Better than schmicheal possibly though I'm not sure. 

He's obviously better than Mingolet but I wouldn't have him long term. 

Everton,Stoke, Southampton is probably his true level.
		
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So he's better than Ming, but obviously you's are a club above his level :rofl: 
Not at all dellusional are you&#128515;


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## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So he's better than Ming, *but obviously you's are a club above his level *:rofl: 
Not at all dellusional are you&#128515;
		
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Robles is better than Mingolet doesn't mean we should take him just because he's a slight improvement. 

I'd like a better keeper than Hart long term.


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## Hosel Fade (Aug 17, 2016)

Fish said:



			Pep's after buying and bringing in Claudio Bravo, not sure Hart is destined to go abroad so Everton could be a serious option with their new found wealth :smirk:
		
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Signed a new keeper already, would be looking more at the other side of town imo.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 17, 2016)

Liverpool won't buy him. They've got Karius who is back in training after his injury. 

Everton have signed Stekelenburg, but I don't believe he was ever signed to be our #1. Think Koeman had bigger plans for our keeper spot than just Stekelenburg.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 17, 2016)

Stekelenburg is adequate cover. But the fact that as soon as Forster was fit he got dropped. 

Fully agree Koeman long term would want better.


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## GG26 (Aug 17, 2016)

Mahrez has signed a new 4 year deal


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 18, 2016)

It looks as though the Benteke deal is now going through. Â£27m rising to Â£30m. Palace have spent big although there is some balance there from the Bolassie deal. A good deal for both parties.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 18, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It looks as though the Benteke deal is now going through. Â£27m rising to Â£30m. Palace have spent big although there is some balance there from the Bolassie deal. A good deal for both parties.
		
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I'm happy with that. There's no doubt about his ability, he just never suited the style of football that Rodgers brought him into and once Klopp came in his work rate and effort were poor. He had plenty of chances under Klopp.

I wonder if Pardew still thinks he's a cheat and i hope he's going to publicly put him to the sword about not diving.

Balotelli out the door next hopefully.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 19, 2016)

Good header by ibrahimovic.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 19, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Good header by ibrahimovic.
		
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Hell of a free signing


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 19, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Hell of a free signing
		
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Definitely. Already talk of extending the contract for more than this initial season deal


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## Slime (Aug 19, 2016)

Watching United's pace of play compared to last season is like watching one of last seasons' games on fast forward!
Ibrahimovic looks ridiculous value for money, Pogba's a beast with ability and Fellaini didn't get booked .

The world's gone mad, I tell you, absolutely mad!


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## Stuart_C (Aug 19, 2016)

Slime said:



			Watching United's pace of play compared to last season is like watching one of last seasons' games on fast forward!
Ibrahimovic looks ridiculous value for money, Pogba's a beast with ability *and Fellaini didn't get booked .*

The world's gone mad, I tell you, absolutely mad!
		
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Not surprised, the refs from wythenshawe and he's a ST holder.

Agree though, they look a lot more dangerous.


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## sawtooth (Aug 19, 2016)

Slime said:



			Watching United's pace of play compared to last season is like watching one of last seasons' games on fast forward!
Ibrahimovic looks ridiculous value for money, Pogba's a beast with ability and Fellaini didn't get booked .

The world's gone mad, I tell you, absolutely mad!
		
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Not completely mad, you're still winning penalties at home.

Can't believe no one is debating the pen? Luke Shaw tripped over his own feet surely?


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 19, 2016)

I thought the defender caught his foot and that caused him to trip himself up. Not seen a replay as have turned over to the Olympic hockey final but that was my first impression.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Not completely mad, you're still winning penalties at home.

Can't believe no one is debating the pen? Luke Shaw tripped over his own feet surely?
		
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It was a shocking pen considering the size of Him.


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## Karl102 (Aug 19, 2016)

Bailly, Pogba and Ibra.... 3 great signings... Middle of the pitch looks as strong as it has in years! Early days, but general energy, speed and passing looks impressive...


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## Papas1982 (Aug 19, 2016)

Better team won. We had a chance early doors but Long fluffed his lines. 

Bever troubled De Gea, pains ,e to say it, but in today's game it was a pen. Anyone not thinking so just watch our lads face. He KNEW what he'd done.


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## Slime (Aug 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Not completely mad, you're still winning penalties at home.

*Can't believe no one is debating the pen?* Luke Shaw tripped over his own feet surely?
		
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Including Clasie?
He clearly caught Shaw's foot which caused him to trip himself up.
Nothing malicious, nothing deliberate ................ just a simple foul. 
No Southampton player had an issue with the decision.




sawtooth said:



			Not completely mad, *you're still winning penalties at home*.

Can't believe no one is debating the pen? Luke Shaw tripped over his own feet surely?
		
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Penalties .......................... and matches!
Yourselves?


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## Slime (Aug 19, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Better team won. We had a chance early doors but Long fluffed his lines. 

Never troubled De Gea, pains me to say it, but *in today's game it was a pen. Anyone not thinking so just watch our lads face. He KNEW what he'd done.*

Click to expand...

Some will, hilariously, refuse to accept the bleedin' obvious.
Good, honest appraisal :thup:.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 19, 2016)

Slime said:



			Some will, hilariously, refuse to accept the bleedin' obvious.
Good, honest appraisal :thup:.
		
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Tbf, it it had been for Pompey it would obviously have been a dive.........

Zlatan terrified us, and whilst not all pogbas efforts came off. I was impressed with him. Think you need a right back though as we had a field day going down the left in first half.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 20, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Definitely. Already talk of extending the contract for more than this initial season deal
		
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It's a 2 year deal already.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 20, 2016)

I dont care how well City do this season. And England team with Stones at the back will struggle. Quality attributes, but likes to defend as much as David Luiz.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 20, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			I dont care how well City do this season. And England team with Stones at the back will struggle. Quality attributes, but likes to defend as much as David Luiz.
		
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And the 2 mentioned are the most expensive defenders in the world&#129300;


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## Papas1982 (Aug 20, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			And the 2 mentioned are the most expensive defenders in the world&#129300;
		
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Shocking isn't it!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 20, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			I dont care how well City do this season. And England team with Stones at the back will struggle. Quality attributes, but likes to defend as much as David Luiz.
		
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For the sake of England I hope Pep brings Stones on, but I can't lie, I'm very happy with the Williams for Stones deals for this season at least.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 20, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Shocking isn't it!
		
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Crazy.
How much would Maldini be worth now? 
A proper defender. 
Or a young John Terry or Rio Ferdinand.


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## anotherdouble (Aug 20, 2016)

Well done Mike Dean. 2 penalties for holding in the box. At bloody last


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 20, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			Well done Mike Dean. 2 penalties for holding in the box. At bloody last
		
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I wholeheartedly agree. Just hope all other refs take a similarly tough line.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 20, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			It's a 2 year deal already.
		
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Anyway, can we all agree now that if Man U win the league, they've bought it.

Saves any arguments later, then.:thup:


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## Tashyboy (Aug 20, 2016)

Get in there Nolly.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 20, 2016)

Whether we win the title or not, I have spent all my life wishing to watch football of that quality coming from a blue shirt. ( well maroon and black ).


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## Papas1982 (Aug 20, 2016)

Groundhog day!

1 step forward, one wobble back...........

Bring back Brendan!


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 20, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			I wholeheartedly agree. Just hope all other refs take a similarly tough line.
		
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Referees.  Consistency.  Do you seriously expect to see those two words in the same sentence in relation to the Premier League; if so, can I have a pint of what you're drinking please? :rofl:


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## Papas1982 (Aug 20, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Referees.  Consistency.  Do you seriously expect to see those two words in the same sentence in relation to the Premier League; if so, can I have a pint of what you're drinking please? :rofl:
		
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A common review of todays games.......


*"Referees* yet again show a complete lack of *consistency".


*Easy


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## Old Skier (Aug 20, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			A common review of todays games.......


*"Referees* yet again show a complete lack of *consistency".


*Easy 

Click to expand...

Post of the day


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## PhilTheFragger (Aug 20, 2016)

Oooo Watford leading Chelski 1:0 
Burnley 2:0 up v Liverpool 
Interesting
15 mins to go


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 20, 2016)

PhilTheFragger said:



*Oooo Watford leading Chelsea 1:0* 
Burnley 2:0 up v Liverpool 
Interesting
15 mins to go
		
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Do keep upâ€¦â€¦..


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## PhilTheFragger (Aug 20, 2016)

Sorry
Commentators curse kicks in
At least for Watford


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 20, 2016)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Sorry
Commentators curse kicks in
At least for Watford
		
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Can you commentate on Burnley next Saturday afternoon please Mr Fragger sir?


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 20, 2016)

Great fight back from Chelsea :whoo::whoo::whoo:

And Liverpool stuffed by Burnley :rofl::rofl:

Happy days :cheers:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 20, 2016)

Great result away at W Brom, especiall from 1-0 down, the right back, Holgate, looks a crackin player. Early days but always good to move above the loveable neighbours :rofl:


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## PhilTheFragger (Aug 20, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Can you commentate on Burnley next Saturday afternoon please Mr Fragger sir? 

Click to expand...

It can be arranged for my usual fee


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 20, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Great fight back from Chelsea :whoo::whoo::whoo:

And Liverpool stuffed by Burnley :rofl::rofl:

Happy days :cheers:
		
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Apparently it was all the referee's fault for not sending Costa off, according to Tony Gale.  Unfortunately, judging by the comments on a Chelsea forum, he may have a pointâ€¦â€¦â€¦.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 20, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Referees.  Consistency.  Do you seriously expect to see those two words in the same sentence in relation to the Premier League; if so, can I have a pint of what you're drinking please? :rofl:
		
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I did say hope *not *believe!

But perhaps this might just be a start.


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## Piece (Aug 20, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Apparently it was all the referee's fault for not sending Costa off, according to Tony Gale.  Unfortunately, judging by the comments on a Chelsea forum, he may have a pointâ€¦â€¦â€¦.
		
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Costa was really good today from my seat in the stands. Perhaps we missed something worthy of a red?


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 20, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			I did say hope *not *believe!

But perhaps this might just be a start.

Click to expand...

Let's hope so.  :cheers:


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## Junior (Aug 20, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Anyway, can we all agree now that if Man U win the league, they've bought it.

Saves any arguments later, then.:thup:
		
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Agreed...or if Citeh win it ...... Sad the way its gone really.  Dont think there will be another Leicester for some years....


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 20, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			I wholeheartedly agree. Just hope all other refs take a similarly tough line.
		
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I've only just seen these on Sky Sports News. First one, the defender had his arm and shirt but I thought the Sterling one was soft as he was fending him off with his hands and not holding. Is there anything in the laws that says a player *has to* look at the ball as this seems to be the key to the directive being given. I didn't think he had hold and to be fair given the height difference I didn't see Sterling was gaining an advantage


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## fundy (Aug 20, 2016)

Every big decision gone arsenals way and still lucky to scrape a 0-0 draw thanks to Cechs late save, another horrid performance, carrying far too much dead weight far too many comfy in their roles without actually performing, no leadership, defense as creaky as ever, big names look barely interested and reliant on a couple of individuals to turn the game. Coquelin shouldve seen red and Leicester shouldve had a penalty near the end. Will anything change before the window closes? of course not lol


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## sawtooth (Aug 20, 2016)

fundy said:



			Every big decision gone arsenals way and still lucky to scrape a 0-0 draw thanks to Cechs late save, another horrid performance, carrying far too much dead weight far too many comfy in their roles without actually performing, no leadership, defense as creaky as ever, big names look barely interested and reliant on a couple of individuals to turn the game. Coquelin shouldve seen red and Leicester shouldve had a penalty near the end. Will anything change before the window closes? of course not lol
		
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Not a bad performance at all against the champions.

I agree Coquelin was fortunate to stay on but I think 0-0 was a fair result.

Kos was immense today and thought Holding did well too.


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## fundy (Aug 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Not a bad performance at all against the champions.

I agree Coquelin was fortunate to stay on but I think 0-0 was a fair result.

Kos was immense today and thought Holding did well too.
		
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Kos was indeed outstanding, he was pretty much on his own though (bar Cechs late save). Not sure how 0-0 is fair when we shouldve had 10 men for 30 mins and they have a clear pen turned down though.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 20, 2016)

fundy said:



			Every big decision gone arsenals way and still lucky to scrape a 0-0 draw thanks to Cechs late save, another horrid performance, carrying far too much dead weight far too many comfy in their roles without actually performing, no leadership, defense as creaky as ever, big names look barely interested and reliant on a couple of individuals to turn the game. Coquelin shouldve seen red and Leicester shouldve had a penalty near the end. Will anything change before the window closes? of course not lol
		
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Honest review, 2 things to add, I would tell Wallcott he is not to shoot only pass when in the box and Holding was lucky that free kick came to nothing near the end.


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## sawtooth (Aug 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Honest review, 2 things to add, I would tell Wallcott he is not to shoot only pass when in the box and Holding was lucky that free kick came to nothing near the end.
		
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Yeah but it might have been more dangerous if Ulloa got past him so took one for the team there a bit.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah but it might have been more dangerous if Ulloa got past him so took one for the team there a bit.
		
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Or stay on your feet and tackle properly rather than diving in on the edge of the box!


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 20, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Anyway, can we all agree now that if Man U win the league, they've bought it.

Saves any arguments later, then.:thup:
		
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Bought it with free transfer?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 20, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Bought it with free transfer? 

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Hate it when owners try to buy success :rofl:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...o-buy-club-from-fenway-for-700m-a7083836.html


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 20, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Apparently it was all the referee's fault for not sending Costa off, according to Tony Gale.  Unfortunately, judging by the comments on a Chelsea forum, he may have a pointâ€¦â€¦â€¦.
		
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Oh dear Diego.  That's embarrassing and pathetic.  Cut it out.  Now. :angry:


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 20, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Oh dear Diego.  That's embarrassing and pathetic.  Cut it out.  Now. :angry:
		
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Quality player when he's in the mood. 
But at times I see him as more of a liability. 
That dive today was pathetic & should have been a 2nd yellow.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 20, 2016)

Junior said:



			Agreed...or if Citeh win it ...... Sad the way its gone really.  Dont think there will be another Leicester for some years....
		
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Stop being so bloody reasonable - where's the fun in that?


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Hate it when owners try to buy success :rofl:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...o-buy-club-from-fenway-for-700m-a7083836.html

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Thats one expensive Chinese that.......as Dave Whelan may say.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 20, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Oh dear Diego.  That's embarrassing and pathetic.  Cut it out.  Now. :angry:
		
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It was.

However, he is some "baddie" though.

We nearly got him the year before you did. Him and Suarez would have played together for a year - I think I might have booed and hissed at them.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 20, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Stop being so bloody reasonable - where's the fun in that?

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Another Liverpool fan (armchair) keeps slating another team for NOT trying to "buy the league title". 
No pleasing you lot &#128580;&#128556;


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## Piece (Aug 21, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Quality player when he's in the mood. 
But at times I see him as more of a liability. 
That dive today was pathetic & should have been a 2nd yellow.
		
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Dive was laughable at the time, crowd baying for him to be booked. I think no-one, including me, realised that he was booked earlier!


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 21, 2016)

Piece said:



			Dive was laughable at the time, crowd baying for him to be booked. I think no-one, including me, realised that he was booked earlier!
		
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How can grown men not feel embarrassed when they see replays of themselves acting like that?


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## john0 (Aug 21, 2016)

Good win for the Boro, nice to be playing league derbies again.....especially when we win them &#128512;


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 21, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			How can grown men not feel embarrassed when they see replays of themselves acting like that?
		
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Can we describe the majority of professional footballers as grown men?


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 21, 2016)

The West Ham goalscorer "thinks" that might be the first Premiership goal at the new stadium.  Well, it's the first Premier League game, and there's only one goal, so it's a definite maybe!! 

i wonder if I could donate him a brain cell so he has a pair to work with?


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 21, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Can we describe the majority of professional footballers as grown men?
		
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Fair point.


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## PhilTheFragger (Aug 21, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			The West Ham goalscorer "thinks" that might be the first Premiership goal at the new stadium.  Well, it's the first Premier League game, and there's only one goal, so it's a definite maybe!! 

i wonder if I could donate him a brain cell so he has a pair to work with?
		
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Careful Blue, don't want to short side yourself


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 21, 2016)

I saw a bit of the West Ham match. The fans are further away from the pitch than I expected. It reminded me of the old Wembley. I wouldn't like that as a fan week in week out, even if I was getting the ground for a song.

Any Hammers fans on here? Views on the new stadium from those who have been there?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I saw a bit of the West Ham match. The fans are further away from the pitch than I expected. It reminded me of the old Wembley. I wouldn't like that as a fan week in week out, even if I was getting the ground for a song.

Any Hammers fans on here? Views on the new stadium from those who have been there?
		
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Seems like a lot of empty seats in the stadium - pictures of areas of the stands where they had sold ST but no actual seats in place. 

If that's the amount they can't get into the stadium for the grand opening first game will they ever fill it ? Maybe they have a stadium that is too big for them. But then it's costing them peanuts so shouldn't be a money drain


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seems like a lot of empty seats in the stadium - pictures of areas of the stands where they had sold ST but no actual seats in place. 

If that's the amount they can't get into the stadium for the grand opening first game will they ever fill it ? Maybe they have a stadium that is too big for them. But then it's costing them peanuts so shouldn't be a money drain
		
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August gates can somewhat skew the figures, due to lots being on holidays, so better to judge in September.

However, from what I'm told, I'm an armchair fan.

An armchair fan who has visited over 70 odd English grounds, been a season ticket holder for 30 years (and counting), been to over 30 European aways, 500 in the Uk......blah,blah,blah.

Oh to be a glory hunter, who hasnt been to my own "home" ground more than 10 times, embarassed by other old skool Chelsea fans on here, sitting in my Barnsley sky season ticket armchair. I think I'll invest in a big blue foam hand this year........

You couldn't make it up.......:rofl:


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## sawtooth (Aug 21, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I saw a bit of the West Ham match. The fans are further away from the pitch than I expected. It reminded me of the old Wembley. I wouldn't like that as a fan week in week out, even if I was getting the ground for a song.

Any Hammers fans on here? Views on the new stadium from those who have been there?
		
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I think the green AstroTurf/carpet covering the track looks naff.

They should have went with some contrasting colour or better to leave the track uncovered IMO. I can't see that lasting very long it just looks weird.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seems like a lot of empty seats in the stadium - pictures of areas of the stands where they had sold ST but no actual seats in place. 

If that's the amount they can't get into the stadium for the grand opening first game will they ever fill it ? Maybe they have a stadium that is too big for them. But then it's costing them peanuts so shouldn't be a money drain
		
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They have sold loads of Season Tickets to trendy folk who don't actually support West Ham. Loads of London-based Youtubers have bought Season Tickets despite supporting other London clubs, so don't imagine they'll be full very often.


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## stokie_93 (Aug 22, 2016)

Going to be a long season for us if we don't sort our defence out


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2016)

Stokie - you are doing what Everton did under Moyes. Start badly and then come good. It used to drive us nuts each year. If only they could start well....... The problem for you is going to be what use is Shawcross if refs are going to keep stopping him rugby tackle attackers in the penalty area at corners? You are one defender down if he can't use his arms :rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 22, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			August gates can somewhat skew the figures, due to lots being on holidays, so better to judge in September.

However, from what I'm told, I'm an armchair fan.

An armchair fan who has visited over 70 odd English grounds, been a season ticket holder for 30 years (and counting), been to over 30 European aways, 500 in the Uk......blah,blah,blah.

Oh to be a glory hunter, who hasnt been to my own "home" ground more than 10 times, embarassed by other old skool Chelsea fans on here, sitting in my Barnsley sky season ticket armchair. I think I'll invest in a big blue foam hand this year........

You couldn't make it up.......:rofl:
		
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Might want to read my post again Sinbad &#128077;&#127995;

"Another" &#128580;

Stick to cleaning windows La.


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## stokie_93 (Aug 22, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Stokie - you are doing what Everton did under Moyes. Start badly and then come good. It used to drive us nuts each year. If only they could start well....... The problem for you is going to be what use is Shawcross if refs are going to keep stopping him rugby tackle attackers in the penalty area at corners? You are one defender down if he can't use his arms :rofl:
		
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Fair enough LT we played City with Aguero who is in stupidly good form but we were so poor at the back. Our draw against Middlesborough is looking a good one after they beat Sunderland yesterday so not massively fussed. It was far from a 4-1 game Saturday but that's the way it goes when you're pushing for a goal against a top team.

I don't know what Ryan was thinking, it couldn't have been made clearer over the summer what would happen if players were pulling in the box.
It happens everywhere in every game but refs will look at it now, just a case of whether they will be consistent in their decisions?


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2016)

Fans have been calling for an end to pulling at corners for years. I hope they stick to enforcing it. As a defender in another sport I always thought grabbing onto people was a sign that you were not good at your job. Defend properly, defend cleanly. If he and others keep doing it then they are clearly stupid and deserve the penalties they get against them. The warnings have been clear enough. In his case he is renowned for it so he needs to be extra careful. Aguero is on fire at the moment, bad time to play City. If only it had been a wet Wednesday in February?

One extra, BET365 Stadium. What is that about? Whatever they are giving you, it is not enough.


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## stokie_93 (Aug 22, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fans have been calling for an end to pulling at corners for years. I hope they stick to enforcing it. As a defender in another sport I always thought grabbing onto people was a sign that you were not good at your job. Defend properly, defend cleanly. If he and others keep doing it then they are clearly stupid and deserve the penalties they get against them. The warnings have been clear enough. In his case he is renowned for it so he needs to be extra careful. Aguero is on fire at the moment, bad time to play City. If only it had been a wet Wednesday in February?

One extra, BET365 Stadium. What is that about? Whatever they are giving you, it is not enough.
		
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Couldn't agree more LT, nothing wrong with a bit of jostling if you ask me but once arm and shirt pulling is involved it gets silly.
Players like John Terry have been doing it for years and got away with it so we'll see how it goes.

If Aguero keeps fit this season I can see him getting 30 goals and City running away with it if you ask me.

Don't ask about the Stadium it's ridiculous, we haven't been tied to Britannia for years so can understand the change but it's a ludicrous stadium name.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 22, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			August gates can somewhat skew the figures, due to lots being on holidays, so better to judge in September.

However, from what I'm told, I'm an armchair fan.

An armchair fan who has visited over 70 odd English grounds, been a season ticket holder for 30 years (and counting), been to over 30 European aways, 500 in the Uk......blah,blah,blah.

Oh to be a glory hunter, who hasnt been to my own "home" ground more than 10 times, embarassed by other old skool Chelsea fans on here, sitting in my Barnsley sky season ticket armchair. I think I'll invest in a big blue foam hand this year........

You couldn't make it up.......:rofl:
		
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It's all them half and halfs you've collected!  :rofl:


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 22, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			It's all them half and halfs you've collected!  :rofl:
		
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I dropped my half-and-half the other week, when pulling out my selfie stick, because we had a penalty.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 22, 2016)

Can't hold it in any longer.
Burnley 2 - 0 against LPool :rofl: :rofl:
No comments from the red noses, must really be hurting.
Come on lads it's early days, Klippetty will come good and in May you'll be above us, but Burnley :rofl:


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Can't hold it in any longer.
Burnley 2 - 0 against LPool :rofl: :rofl:
No comments from the red noses, must really be hurting.
Come on lads it's early days, Klippetty will come good and in May you'll be above us, but Burnley :rofl:
		
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And you'd done so well :clap::rofl:And it's the might Burton for them next


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Can't hold it in any longer.
Burnley 2 - 0 against LPool :rofl: :rofl:
No comments from the red noses, must really be hurting.
Come on lads it's early days, Klippetty will come good and in May you'll be above us, but Burnley :rofl:
		
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Surprised you held out less than the armchair fan (who calls out other armchair fans).

Maybe there's an armchair heirarchy, that I'm not aware of. 

Oh, the irony.......


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 22, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:





Surprised you held out less than the armchair fan (who calls out other armchair fans).

Maybe there's an armchair heirarchy, that I'm not aware of. 

Oh, the irony.......
		
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Apparently having someone on ignore,yet keeps having a dig &#129300;

Now that's irony Sinbad &#128563;


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 22, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Great fight back from Chelsea :whoo::whoo::whoo:

And Liverpool stuffed by Burnley :rofl::rofl:

Happy days :cheers:
		
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Oh & you must have missed this &#128514;&#128514;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 22, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:





Surprised you held out less than the armchair fan (who calls out other armchair fans).

Maybe there's an armchair heirarchy, that I'm not aware of. 

Oh, the irony.......
		
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It's been killing me mate&#128515; add to that Newcastle going down I'll probably only get to one LPool match this season, might give me time to get the armchair re-upholstered:rofl:


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			It's been killing me mate&#62979; add to that Newcastle going down I'll probably only get to one LPool match this season, might give me time to get the armchair re-upholstered:rofl:
		
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You should be able to get 2 in - Boro and Sunderland.

I reckon Pinseeker's has a mini-bar in it, with 3 types of Vodka, a foam hand holder, and a "learn yourself cockernee" so he can converse online with PROPER Chelsea fans.

Reckon yours has bitter. :whoo:


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 22, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			You should be able to get 2 in - Boro and Sunderland.

I reckon Pinseeker's has a mini-bar in it, with 3 types of Vodka, a foam hand holder, and a "learn yourself cockernee" so he can converse online with PROPER Chelsea fans.

Reckon yours has bitter. :whoo:
		
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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 22, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			You should be able to get 2 in - Boro and Sunderland.

I reckon Pinseeker's has a mini-bar in it, with 3 types of Vodka, a foam hand holder, and a "learn yourself cockernee" so he can converse online with PROPER Chelsea fans.

Reckon yours has bitter. :whoo:
		
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Bitter on tap &#128515; For some reason the lads aren't interested in coming the Boro match, didn't argue too hard,


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 22, 2016)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Careful Blue, don't want to short side yourself  

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I may be many things Phil, but short ain't one of them!


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## john0 (Aug 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Bitter on tap &#128515; For some reason the lads aren't interested in coming the Boro match, didn't argue too hard,
		
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Maybe they can't bear to see them get stuffed by the Boro &#128512;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 22, 2016)

john0 said:



			Maybe they can't bear to see them get stuffed by the Boro &#128512;
		
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I'd be happy for that to happen&#128515;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 23, 2016)

The FA have charged Andre Gray over the tweets he made 4 years ago.
Absolutely ridiculous, FA making themselves look stupid imo.


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## Kellfire (Aug 23, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			The FA have charged Andre Gray over the tweets he made 4 years ago.
Absolutely ridiculous, FA making themselves look stupid imo.
		
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Have you read what he said about gay people, white people and women? I'd expect to be fired from my job if my employers found things like that on my social media and rightly so.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 23, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Have you read what he said about gay people, white people and women? I'd expect to be fired from my job if my employers found things like that on my social media and rightly so.
		
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Yes mate, saw the tweets, read his statement and Burnleys, he was a professional Footballer when he made them, why didn't the FA take action then?
He's apologised, admitted he was wrong young and stupid, 
Not agreeing or condoning what he said, just think the FA are only reacting to the media.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 24, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Yes mate, saw the tweets, read his statement and Burnleys, he was a professional Footballer when he made them, why didn't the FA take action then?
He's apologised, admitted he was wrong young and stupid, 
Not agreeing or condoning what he said, just think the FA are only reacting to the media.
		
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Or maybe it's only just come to the FA's attention as they don't follow him on Twitter?


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## Papas1982 (Aug 24, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Yes mate, saw the tweets, read his statement and Burnleys, he was a professional Footballer when he made them, why didn't the FA take action then?
He's apologised, admitted he was wrong young and stupid, 
Not agreeing or condoning what he said, just think the FA are only reacting to the media.
		
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I agree, everyone has made mistakes in their past.

It strikes me that all of a sudden because he is high profile (premiership), they seem to care. Unless they're gonna check all football league players witter feed then its tokenism and nothing more.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 25, 2016)

West Ham out of Europe. Good job they aren't reliant on that cash for the new stadium. Saw bits of the game and they were poor


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## GG26 (Aug 25, 2016)

My son went on a three day Leicester City summer football training school this week, which he has done for the last couple of years.  They put on a number of these over the school holidays.  This year Christian Fuchs turns up for all three days and gets involved with the games.  How many premiership footballers would do that, let alone league winners?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 25, 2016)

GG26 said:



			My son went on a three day Leicester City summer football training school this week, which he has done for the last couple of years.  They put on a number of these over the school holidays.  This year Christian Fuchs turns up for all three days and gets involved with the games.  How many premiership footballers would do that, let alone league winners?
		
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I believe that sort of thing happens at every club - plenty even run their own training camps and get involved


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## Kellfire (Aug 26, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I believe that sort of thing happens at every club - plenty even run their own training camps and get involved
		
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Yep. All the top clubs have their players kept busy doing things in the community and for bigger charities because it helps the brand of the club. Leicester are by no means a trend setter here, they'll just be highlighted more for it after last season.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 26, 2016)

GG26 said:



			My son went on a three day Leicester City summer football training school this week, which he has done for the last couple of years.  They put on a number of these over the school holidays.  This year Christian Fuchs turns up for all three days and gets involved with the games.  How many premiership footballers would do that, let alone league winners?
		
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Don't wish to disillusion you but this is pretty commonplace.

On the other hand you could ask my son, a school-teacher in Leicester, just how much LCFC charge local schools to take part in their inter-schools tournament. Hardly in keeping with Football in the Community.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 26, 2016)

After the rumours about Hart being dismissed by Koeman, Klopp has followed suit and done the same.
Does anyone want him or are Clubs waiting till the last minute or will Hart take a pay cut from Â£135,000.00 per week to play?


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 26, 2016)

I'm thinking the last sentence. Clubs may be waiting and hope that either City subsidise his wages or they drop the price they want for the loan. At the moment the deal is too pricey. It's a poker game now, who blinks first.

The one that interests me is Chelsea have signed a back up keeper, Portugal's number 2. Does that mean they would be open to a bid for Begovic?


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 26, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm thinking the last sentence. Clubs may be waiting and hope that either City subsidise his wages or they drop the price they want for the loan. At the moment the deal is too pricey. It's a poker game now, who blinks first.

The one that interests me is Chelsea have signed a back up keeper, Portugal's number 2. Does that mean they would be open to a bid for Begovic?
		
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Not sure,but Begovic is a better keeper than Hart imo.


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## Rlburnside (Aug 26, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			After the rumours about Hart being dismissed by Koeman, Klopp has followed suit and done the same.
Does anyone want him or are Clubs waiting till the last minute or will Hart take a pay cut from Â£135,000.00 per week to play?
		
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Cat and mouse game, someone will probebly go for him near the end of the transfer window, btw looks like Doon was right all along, only one I can remember not rating Hart before the Euros started


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 26, 2016)

Rlburnside said:



			Cat and mouse game, someone will probebly go for him near the end of the transfer window, btw looks like Doon was right all along, only one I can remember not rating Hart before the Euros started

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Maybe only one before the Euros, but a few others have never rated him.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 27, 2016)

Good to see the refs are continuing to award penalties for pulling and holding in the box - Mike Dean has no issues giving them in the previous game so why when the ref clearly saw that one he gave nothing bar a talking too ? They don't help themselves do they


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 27, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Good to see the refs are continuing to award penalties for pulling and holding in the box - Mike Dean has no issues giving them in the previous game so why when the ref clearly saw that one he gave nothing bar a talking too ? They don't help themselves do they
		
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Because until the ball is in play he can't give a penalty and I assume he blew before the Liverpool player took the corner. 

Any comment on the Matip foul in the box that should have been a Spurs penalty or the fact Mane could easily have been sent off but the ref bottled giving a second yellow LP?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 27, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Because until the ball is in play he can't give a penalty and I assume he blew before the Liverpool player took the corner. 

Any comment on the Matip foul in the box that should have been a Spurs penalty or the fact Mane could easily have been sent off but the ref bottled giving a second yellow LP?
		
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The Matip situation is the same - should have been a penalty and ref bottled it 

As for Mane - not every foul should be a booking - none of his challenges should have warranted a booked unless under accumulation


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## One Planer (Aug 27, 2016)

That's Pathetic from ManÃ¨!!!

Pure cheating.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 27, 2016)

One Planer said:



			That's Pathetic from ManÃ¨!!!

Pure cheating.
		
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What did he do?


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## One Planer (Aug 27, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			What did he do?
		
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Hand brushed across his face and,  after thinking about it,  went down like he'd copped one from Klitchko.

It's not just him TBF, but it is one of the things I personally find disgusting in the modern game.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 27, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Hand brushed across his face and,  after thinking about it,  went down like he'd copped one from Klitchko.

It's not just him TBF, but it is one of the things I personally find disgusting in the modern game.
		
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Yep it's embarrassing. 
Would be good to see the players asked about it.


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## Piece (Aug 27, 2016)

Arsenal were brilliant today in the first half, :clap:, set on their way by a penalty award that no-one appealed for or even saw. 

Second half showed why Arsenal won't win the League. Under pressure and paper thin, there was a draw there for the taking.

Kevin Friend. Awful, just awful. :angry:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 27, 2016)

On a positive note, Everton won and are now 3 points clear of Lpool :rofl: :rofl:


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## GG26 (Aug 27, 2016)

Good job the Leicester match finished when it did, with another ten minutes in that deluge and the pitch would have been unplayable, the ball was stopping quickly for the last ten minutes as it was.

Looked a comfortable win until Swansea scored ten mins from time.  Time to take Mahrez off of penalty duty, another one easily saved by the keeper.


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 27, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The Matip situation is the same - should have been a penalty and ref bottled it 

As for Mane - not every foul should be a booking - none of his challenges should have warranted a booked unless under accumulation
		
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Would the Matip foul have been a red card as well? Thought I'd heard something about rule changes and some fouls when the man was clean through only being a yellow.

I agree that not every foul is a booking but your first post implied that you weren't happy with lack of consistency from referees. Having already booked Mane and Rose for challenges that weren't as bad as the second one from Mane then to be consistent it was a definite second yellow.

And if the Matip foul was a straight red for the guy being clean through (?) then Liverpool could have been down to 9 men.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 27, 2016)

Piece said:



			Arsenal were brilliant today in the first half, :clap:, set on their way by a penalty award that no-one appealed for or even saw. 

Second half showed why Arsenal won't win the League. Under pressure and paper thin, there was a draw there for the taking.

Kevin Friend. Awful, just awful. :angry:
		
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Having just seen it you were hardly hard done to by the award, awful defending.

Did I miss something about teams wearing their second strips?  The Arsenal second strip seems to potentially clash even more with Watford than the traditional red & white and I couldn't see any clash that would force a change?  Chelsea played in a changed strip there last week and there didn't seem to be a clash then either.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 27, 2016)

Hazard looks a different gravy again.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Aug 27, 2016)

How on earth was that foul on Huth not given as a penalty? He had two defenders fouling him and dragging him to the ground.


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## Piece (Aug 28, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Having just seen it you were hardly hard done to by the award, awful defending.

Did I miss something about teams wearing their second strips?  The Arsenal second strip seems to potentially clash even more with Watford than the traditional red & white and I couldn't see any clash that would force a change?  Chelsea played in a changed strip there last week and there didn't seem to be a clash then either. 

Click to expand...

Having seen the penalty incident on MotD, I don't have any complaints.

Clubs are free to chose their away kit from their approved list no less than 10 days before the fixture. I would imagine there are kit contract clauses that says X kit shall be used Y times per season. Personally Arsenal's kit choice was better that their traditional red and white.


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## SaintHacker (Aug 28, 2016)

I'm a very worried Southampton fan this morning. Under Poch, Koeman and even Adkins to a degree we played a high tempo, pressing type of football which this guy seems to have come in and ripped up. All we've heard the last 5 years is the Southampton way this and the Southampton way that. Well at the moment that seems to have gone out the window. I'm very concerned that its totally clear to anyone with half a brain that his preferred system doesn't work with the players we have available, but he plows on with it rather than changing the system to suit the players we have. Whilst I agree 3 games is not long enough to judge a manager sometimes an appointment just doesn't 'feel' right from the start, for me this is one of them. I hope I'm wrong but I have a horrible feeling our recruitment people have got it wrong this time.


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## SaintHacker (Aug 28, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Hand brushed across his face and,  after thinking about it,  went down like he'd copped one from Klitchko.

It's not just him TBF, but it is one of the things I personally find disgusting in the modern game.
		
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Get used to it, he does like to go down like he's been hit by a sniper


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

SaintHacker said:



			I'm a very worried Southampton fan this morning. Under Poch, Koeman and even Adkins to a degree we played a high tempo, pressing type of football which this guy seems to have come in and ripped up. All we've heard the last 5 years is the Southampton way this and the Southampton way that. Well at the moment that seems to have gone out the window. I'm very concerned that its totally clear to anyone with half a brain that his preferred system doesn't work with the players we have available, but he plows on with it rather than changing the system to suit the players we have. Whilst I agree 3 games is not long enough to judge a manager sometimes an appointment just doesn't 'feel' right from the start, for me this is one of them. I hope I'm wrong but I have a horrible feeling our recruitment people have got it wrong this time.
		
Click to expand...

Must be very frustrating when you see your players/managers doing so well & you just know that it's only a matter of time until someone comes in for them. 
Recently you've done a good job replacing them,but surely it can't continue.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2016)

Just seen the highlights of our game, how can the ref not give a pen for the pulling on  Matip? The ball from the corner was in play!!

Mingolet should've done better for the goal, he's game out to close the ball down and turns his back. The quicker Karius is fit the better.


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## guest100718 (Aug 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Just seen the highlights of our game, how can the ref not give a pen for the pulling on  Matip? The ball from the corner was in play!!

Mingolet should've done better for the goal, he's game out to close the ball down and turns his back. The quicker Karius is fit the better.
		
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The ref was poor.  But that wasn't a pen


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 28, 2016)

Few dodgy pens given and not given yesterday, Shearer and Gullet got my back up going on about the Spurs game and the pen that wasn't, then complaining when soft pens were given, apparently as Benteke was having his shirt pulled it was OK as he was going away from goal, these "experts" really don't help, either it's penalty or not, we know the Referee's are inconsistent so you can't have it either way as well.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2016)

guest100718 said:



			The ref was poor.  But that wasn't a pen
		
Click to expand...

Under the new directives it was a pen. 

The ball was in play, refs spotted the infringement and stopped play to warn the offender then ordered the corner to be retaken, it's a foul in the box then it's a pen.


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## guest100718 (Aug 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Under the new directives it was a pen. 

The ball was in play, refs spotted the infringement and stopped play to warn the offender then ordered the corner to be retaken, it's a foul in the box then it's a pen.
		
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Ball wasnt in play, Shearer was trying to make it look that way.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Under the new directives it was a pen. 

The ball was in play, refs spotted the infringement and stopped play to warn the offender then ordered the corner to be retaken, it's a foul in the box then it's a pen.
		
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Serious one mate, not doubting Lamela caught whoever legs for a pen, but did he trip him or run into the back of him accidentally?


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## guest100718 (Aug 28, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Serious one mate, not doubting Lamela caught whoever legs for a pen, but did he trip him or run into the back of him accidentally?
		
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Probably the softest pen of the weekend along with the one against stoke.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Serious one mate, not doubting Lamela caught whoever legs for a pen, but did he trip him or run into the back of him accidentally?
		
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A pen that we see loads of times were players switch off, he caught Firmino.

I just don't know how madley or the the refs main man can justify what he did yesterday. Every club and every player know the new rules (whether or not we agree on them is a different matter) on shirt pulling in the box at corners.

We've only got ourselves to blame for not winning that game yesterday but these obvious decisions don't help.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			A pen that we see loads of times were players switch off, he caught Firmino.

I just don't know how madley or the the refs main man can justify what he did yesterday. Every club and every player know the new rules (whether or not we agree on them is a different matter) on shirt pulling in the box at corners.

We've only got ourselves to blame for not winning that game yesterday but these obvious decisions don't help.
		
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Their keeper had a worldly early on, stupid decision at the corner, and as you say players legs get tangled, thing is you have to get a pen otherwise players will run into each other and claim an accident. Do you think you need anymore signings?


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## guest100718 (Aug 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			A pen that we see loads of times were players switch off, he caught Firmino.

I just don't know how madley or the the refs main man can justify what he did yesterday. Every club and every player know the new rules (whether or not we agree on them is a different matter) on shirt pulling in the box at corners.

We've only got ourselves to blame for not winning that game yesterday but these obvious decisions don't help.
		
Click to expand...


If lamela touched him at all it was outside the area and firninio tripped himself over.

Little mention of the stonewall pen for pulling that you seem to think should have been given.

We rode our luck at times, but had some excellent chances of our own, we are desperate for dembele to return.


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## Old Skier (Aug 28, 2016)

guest100718 said:



			Ball wasnt in play, Shearer was trying to make it look that way.
		
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Strange one, the ball was on the field of play, the ref blows the whistle to continue play.  Are you saying that if while waiting for a free kick to be taken a player kicks another player before the whistle is blown for a free kick then no action rather than a stiff talking to is required. Difficult dilemma for the refs to get sorted.  Perhaps a yellow card was the answer.


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## guest100718 (Aug 28, 2016)

Old Skier said:



			Strange one, the ball was on the field of play, the ref blows the whistle to continue play.  Are you saying that if while waiting for a free kick to be taken a player kicks another player before the whistle is blown for a free kick then no action rather than a stiff talking to is required. Difficult dilemma for the refs to get sorted.  Perhaps a yellow card was the answer.
		
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its a tough call as there is always a load of pulling etc going on before the ball is put in to play. Some will deal with it like in the spurs game and tell them to stop before the corner is taken,others will let it carry on and award the pen.


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## Old Skier (Aug 28, 2016)

guest100718 said:



			its a tough call as there is always a load of pulling etc going on before the ball is put in to play. Some will deal with it like in the spurs game and tell them to stop before the corner is taken,others will let it carry on and award the pen.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately we all want consistency so they need to get things sorted or it will be back to the old wrestling match. Today's refs are pretty poor.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

Well it hasn't taken long for the Liverpool fans to start with the old "poor us" this season. 

Not happy with ref not giving decisions their way,but quite happy when he doesn't give them to the opposition. 
It doesn't make it any easier for the ref when you've got players like Mane trying to con him.


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## davemc1 (Aug 28, 2016)

Whats your thoughts on him now mate? 

Settled in fantastically well up here, and looks the part. If he keeps his hunger and workrate (and maybe his head) up then weve signed a cracker. He must be one of the first names on the team sheet already.

(This is aimed at sainthacker, or any other Saints fan's on here) :thup:


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2016)

guest100718 said:



			its a tough call as there is always a load of pulling etc going on before the ball is put in to play. Some will deal with it like in the spurs game and tell them to stop before the corner is taken,others will let it carry on and award the pen.
		
Click to expand...

The corner had already been taken. The ref blew his whistle whilst it was in air.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Well it hasn't taken long for the Liverpool fans to start with the old "poor us" this season. 

Not happy with ref not giving decisions their way,but quite happy when he doesn't give them to the opposition. 
It doesn't make it any easier for the ref when you've got players like Mane trying to con him.
		
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No poor us at all. See the last paragraph of post #1467.

As for Mane diving, I've only seen the highlights on Goals on Sunday and they never shown it so I've not commented on it. I don't like seeing our players do it and something needs doing about it across the board.


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## One Planer (Aug 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			No poor us at all. See the last paragraph of post #1467.

As for Mane diving, I've only seen the highlights on Goals on Sunday and they never shown it so I've not commented on it. I don't like seeing our players do it and something needs doing about it across the board.
		
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Thing is Stu, referees are part of the problem because they keep blowing up for a foul?

Premier league players these days appear to be made of tissue paper with any contact (...or strong breeze) capable of knocking them over.

If referees stopped offering a whistle for the slightest touch and fall they would soon stop.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Thing is Stu, referees are part of the problem because they keep blowing up for a foul?

Premier league players these days appear to be made of tissue paper with any contact (...or strong breeze) capable of knocking them over.

If referees stopped offering a whistle for the slightest touch and fall they would soon stop.
		
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I agree OP. 

Many of times Ive seen great 50/50 tackles being given as  fouls on the reaction of players, problem is it started 20yrs ago and nothing had been  done apart from diluting the game. 

It's like every foul is a yellow card now and it's ruined the game.


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## guest100718 (Aug 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			The corner had already been taken. The ref blew his whistle whilst it was in air.
		
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lol besides shearer, klop and you ive not seent claimed a pen anywhere else. Maybe he felt he had to cancel out the ridiculous one he gave against lamela. You seem pretty quiet about that one.

and how Mane stayed on the pitch is also amazing!


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2016)

guest100718 said:



			lol besides shearer, klop and you ive not seent claimed a pen anywhere else. Maybe he felt he had to cancel out the ridiculous one he gave against lamela. You seem pretty quiet about that one.
		
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Not at all, it was a foul, lamela clipped Firmino's leg and he went down. I'd be more bothered Lamela switched off and put himself in position to cause the foul as firmino was  going nowhere.


Like I said to attention seeker, I only saw the highlights on Goals on Sunday and it was blatantly obvious that The ref blew his whistle after the corner had been taken.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 28, 2016)

The ball was entering the 6 yard box as the ref blew - he'll be getting a telling off about that one from the ref's bosses on Monday, believe me.

Lamela was unlucky for the given pen, as I dont think it was deliberate so should'nt have been a pen.

Mane lucky to stay on, although Vertonghen should have been booked for an elbow on him.

I think we deserved all 3 points, and should have been at least 2 up in the first half.

Stuey, I see the glory hunters are out in force today.:thup:


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## One Planer (Aug 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I agree OP. 

Many of times Ive seen great 50/50 tackles being given as  fouls on the reaction of players, problem is it started 20yrs ago and nothing had been  done apart from diluting the game. 

It's like every foul is a yellow card now and it's ruined the game.
		
Click to expand...

That's why I call it the Andrex Premier League. 

Soft and unnecessarily expensive.


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## guest100718 (Aug 28, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			The ball was entering the 6 yard box as the ref blew - he'll be getting a telling off about that one from the ref's bosses on Monday, believe me.

Lamela was unlucky for the given pen, as I dont think it was deliberate so should'nt have been a pen.

Mane lucky to stay on, although Vertonghen should have been booked for an elbow on him.

I think we deserved all 3 points, and should have been at least 2 up in the first half.

Stuey, I see the glory hunters are out in force today.:thup:
		
Click to expand...

Lol coming from a fan of the ultimate glory hunters club.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 28, 2016)

guest100718 said:



			Lol coming from a fan of the ultimate glory hunters club.
		
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:rofl:

Half n half LB!!!


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 28, 2016)

guest100718 said:



			Lol coming from a fan of the ultimate glory hunters club.
		
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Hey, I was supporting them in 1978 when we were only winning the league 2 out of every 3 years......which was your last time wasn't it?

Then they get in the CL and you suddenly you find your AA road atlas - I'd be embarassed, if I was you.

You'll also find that Liverpool's gates have gone up in the less successful years.:thup:


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			You'll also find that Liverpool's gates have gone up in the less successful years.:thup:
		
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That's because everyone knows that next year is going to be your year &#128584;&#128514;


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 28, 2016)

Sounds like the Liverpool bell has gone off in glory seeker's household.........


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Sounds like the Liverpool bell has gone off in glory seeker's household.........
		
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&#128514;&#128514;&#128514; quality Bantz as ever sinbad &#128077;&#127995;


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 28, 2016)

Ding, ding!!!!


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ding, ding!!!!
		
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&#128514;&#128514; brilliant,funny guy &#128077;&#127995;


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## Papas1982 (Aug 28, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Whats your thoughts on him now mate? 

Settled in fantastically well up here, and looks the part. If he keeps his hunger and workrate (and maybe his head) up then weve signed a cracker. He must be one of the first names on the team sheet already.

(This is aimed at sainthacker, or any other Saints fan's on here) :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Well so far he's played well twice on tv. That was his speciality with us. His ability is without question. It was he's work ethic, i mean he will run about. But he vanished far to often when the big teams weren't in town.

I still think the fee was too good to turn down, but said at the time. If he finally thinks he's made it and plays as he can week in, then he's got all you need as an attacker.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			The ball was entering the 6 yard box as the ref blew - he'll be getting a telling off about that one from the ref's bosses on Monday, believe me.

Lamela was unlucky for the given pen, as I dont think it was deliberate so should'nt have been a pen.

Mane lucky to stay on, although Vertonghen should have been booked for an elbow on him.

I think we deserved all 3 points, and should have been at least 2 up in the first half.

Stuey, I see the glory hunters are out in force today.:thup:
		
Click to expand...

Lamela wasn't unlucky, just stupid.

Paddy won't recognise WHL these days, it's been a long time since he's been isn't it.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

Why don't West Brom just cash in on Berahino,surely it can't be good for the dressing room forcing him to stay.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2016)

Sterling starting to show again what he's capable of, he'll only get better under Pep.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 28, 2016)

3 games down and City playing the best imo.
Will be interesting to see how they cope against Utd's attack.
Aquero should be banned once the FA see his elbow.
Should be an interesting season dominated by City, Utd and Chelsea.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Lamela wasn't unlucky, just stupid.

Paddy won't recognise WHL these days, it's been a long time since he's been isn't it.
		
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Dunno, I wouldnt be happy if a penalty was given against us for that.

I think he may have gone last year, but before that it was 1978.

Maybe he's bought some creosote for his rattle.

Barnsley blue will need a new battery in his alarm, as well. How can you get so obsessed with another club, to the point you talk more about them than your own..........maybe he should have picked Everton.


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 28, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			The ball was entering the 6 yard box as the ref blew
		
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No it wasn't. The replay on MOTD last night showed that the ref already had the whistle to his lips as the Liverpool player took the corner. It certainly wasn't in the 6 yard box.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Dunno, I wouldnt be happy if a penalty was given against us for that.

I think he may have gone last year, but before that it was 1978.

Maybe he's bought some creosote for his rattle.

Barnsley blue will need a new battery in his alarm, as well. How can you get so obsessed with another club, to the point you talk more about them than your own..........maybe he should have picked Everton.

Click to expand...

Your obsession with me is getting slightly worrying now Sinbad. 
Back to football now hey La &#128077;&#127995;


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			3 games down and City playing the best imo.
Will be interesting to see how they cope against Utd's attack.
Aquero should be banned once the FA see his elbow.
Should be an interesting season dominated by City, Utd and Chelsea.
		
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Doubt he'll be banned, The ref must've seen it, it was right in front of him.

Stones looked good today aswell


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## guest100718 (Aug 28, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Hey, I was supporting them in 1978 when we were only winning the league 2 out of every 3 years......which was your last time wasn't it?

Then they get in the CL and you suddenly you find your AA road atlas - I'd be embarassed, if I was you.

You'll also find that Liverpool's gates have gone up in the less successful years.:thup:
		
Click to expand...

Great enjoy your next 30 years of no title too.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 28, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Dunno, I wouldnt be happy if a penalty was given against us for that.

I think he may have gone last year, but before that it was 1978.

Maybe he's bought some creosote for his rattle.

Barnsley blue will need a new battery in his alarm, as well. How can you get so obsessed with another club, to the point you talk more about them than your own..........maybe he should have picked Everton.

Click to expand...

He's from outside Merseyside, ideal Red Nose&#128515;


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			No it wasn't. The replay on MOTD last night showed that the ref already had the whistle to his lips as the Liverpool player took the corner. It certainly wasn't in the 6 yard box.
		
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Goals on Sunday showed it and the  ball had left the corner then the ref blew.  Kamara even said watch the ball and listen for the whistle. It doesn't matter as it wasn't given, we had enough chances in the game to win it.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			He's from outside Merseyside, ideal Red Nose&#128515;
		
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He definitely wouldn't be a blue, all of them live on county road apparently....


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Doubt he'll be banned, The ref must've seen it, it was right in front of him.

Stones looked good today aswell
		
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That was a deliberate elbow, he couldn't of seen it.

Early days for Stones mate, it's when they're on the back foot he has to improve, although they'll be on the back foot a lot less than us&#128515;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			He definitely wouldn't be a blue, all of them live on county road apparently....
		
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Exactly mate:rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2016)

guest100718 said:



			Great enjoy your next 30 years of no title too.
		
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:rofl: :rofl: a  Spurs armchair  fan mocking for not winning trophies!!


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Dunno, I wouldnt be happy if a penalty was given against us for that.

I think he may have gone last year, but before that it was 1978.

Maybe he's bought some creosote for his rattle.

Barnsley blue will need a new battery in his alarm, as well. How can you get so obsessed with another club, to the point you talk more about them than your own..........maybe he should have picked Everton.

Click to expand...

He doesn't need an alarm, it's part of his daily routine.


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## guest100718 (Aug 28, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Dunno, I wouldnt be happy if a penalty was given against us for that.

I think he may have gone last year, but before that it was 1978.

Maybe he's bought some creosote for his rattle.

Barnsley blue will need a new battery in his alarm, as well. How can you get so obsessed with another club, to the point you talk more about them than your own..........maybe he should have picked Everton.

Click to expand...

I'm sure had my dad not died he'd have carried on taking me.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

Wow I'm actually being mocked by Scousers &#128563;&#128584;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2016)

guest100718 said:



			I'm sure had my dad not died he'd have carried on taking me.
		
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How old are you Paddy?


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Wow I'm actually being mocked by Scousers &#128563;&#128584;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;
		
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Come up to moor allerton next Saturday and we'll give you a cuddle and buy you can of coke.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 28, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			No it wasn't. The replay on MOTD last night showed that the ref already had the whistle to his lips as the Liverpool player took the corner. It certainly wasn't in the 6 yard box.
		
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It was. Maybe Sky had more angles as it was their game.

On goals on Sunday they overlaid the audio with the ref's whistle, and it was more or less as the ball was getting towards the 6 yard box.:thup:


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 28, 2016)

guest100718 said:



			I'm sure had my dad not died he'd have carried on taking me.
		
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I'm not going to mock if thats the real excuse, but I'm guessing that you are older than 45, so I dont think that that is the real reason, is it?


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Come up to moor allerton next Saturday and we'll give you a cuddle and buy you can of coke.
		
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That's a strange combination


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			That's a strange combination
		
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Will a bag of haribo's seal the deal? I wouldn't like to think we've upset you.

I'd buy you a pint but I reckon youd start fighting.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Will a bag of haribo's seal the deal? I wouldn't like to think we've upset you.
		
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I'm all good thanks,I'm not really that way inclined. 
Plus a can of coke & packet of haribos might usually "seal the deal"&#128563; Around your neck of the woods,but it's just wrong around here &#128077;&#127995;


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## Old Skier (Aug 28, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			I'm all good thanks,I'm not really that way inclined. 
Plus a can of coke & packet of haribos might usually "seal the deal"&#128563; Around your neck of the woods,but it's just wrong around here &#128077;&#127995;
		
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That's because your lot prefer coke in a line. Boom boom.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Sterling starting to show again what he's capable of, he'll only get better under Pep.
		
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Sassh those inverted full backs will soon get found out..............


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 28, 2016)

Very impressed with City under Pep. They are looking very good although I wonder if they'll fluff their CL lines again. Wonder what will happen to Hart? No-one seems that keen. Has he baggage attached or just silly wages


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## SaintHacker (Aug 28, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			(This is aimed at sainthacker, or any other Saints fan's on here) :thup:
		
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Why?


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Very impressed with City under Pep. They are looking very good although I wonder if they'll fluff their CL lines again. Wonder what will happen to Hart? No-one seems that keen. Has he baggage attached or just silly wages
		
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I dont think he's as good as people make him out to be, and his wages are extremely high.

Whoever takes a punt on him will get a decent chunk of his wages paid for them.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I dont think he's as good as people make him out to be, and his wages are extremely high.

Whoever takes a punt on him will get a decent chunk of his wages paid for them.
		
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I'm with you on how good he is, and certainly capable of dropping some clangers. It's funny though how the national #1 is unwanted across Europe. Can it be all down to the wages, even if they are subsidised


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I'm with you on how good he is, and certainly capable of dropping some clangers. It's funny though how the national #1 is unwanted across Europe. Can it be all down to the wages, even if they are subsidised
		
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Is he England's number 1 just because of the club he plays for? 

He's a bang average keeper,that's why no big clubs are showing any interest.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 28, 2016)

He's better than average, come on. He is a very good keeper on inflated wages. Not a top 4 keeper but certainly top half of the league. At the moment however the PL has either very good keepers or clubs who are not willing to pay his wages. Either City or Hart will have to compromise, maybe both.


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## One Planer (Aug 28, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Is he England's number 1 just because of the club he plays for? 

He's a bang average keeper,that's why no big clubs are showing any interest.
		
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Exactly. Butland is a massively better keeper and I'm not just saying that as a Stoke supporter.

It was like most of Woy's choices.  Who you played for was more important than how good you were. See Wilshire selection ahead of Drinkwater for the Euros as an example.

It will be interesting to see if he stays in the Prem.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He's better than average, come on. He is a very good keeper on inflated wages. Not a top 4 keeper but certainly top half of the league. At the moment however the PL has either very good keepers or clubs who are not willing to pay his wages. Either City or Hart will have to compromise, maybe both.
		
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So he's not a top 4 keeper,but he's not a bottom of the table keeper. 
So maybe mid table,which would make him average.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 28, 2016)

Mmmmmmmm. Okay we are into definitions. I don't consider top half of the PL as a definition of average players but I see if you are looking at average within the PL then your definition is correct. To me though he is far better than average.

Incidentally I agree that Butland is the best English keeper at the moment but I would still have Hart as number 2.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Exactly. Butland is a massively better keeper and I'm not just saying that as a Stoke supporter.

It was like most of Woy's choices.  Who you played for was more important than how good you were. See Wilshire selection ahead of Drinkwater for the Euros as an example.

It will be interesting to see if he stays in the Prem.
		
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Tbf it wasn't only Hodgeson that did this. 
If you play for(even squad players) certain teams you seem to get a call up. 
As soon as you move on to a lesser team you don't get a look in,even if you're then a regular starter.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Mmmmmmmm. Okay we are into definitions. I don't consider top half of the PL as a definition of average players but I see if you are looking at average within the PL then your definition is correct. To me though he is far better than average.

Incidentally I agree that Butland is the best English keeper at the moment but I would still have Hart as number 2.
		
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Yes I was talking Prem quality. 
He's no De Gea,Courtois or Cech. 
But he's certainly no Mignolet either


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 28, 2016)

He made his debut when he was at Birmingham after being U21 and U23 Keeper. So the big Club argument really doesn't hold up.
Whether he is the best English keeper is debatable, the bigger question is lack of quality English keepers, 
The PL probably has 6-7 of the worlds top 10 keepers.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 28, 2016)

Yes, it would be cruel to describe him in that bracket &#128514;.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			He made his debut when he was at Birmingham after being U21 and U23 Keeper. So the big Club argument really doesn't hold up.
Whether he is the best English keeper is debatable, the bigger question is lack of quality English keepers, 
The PL probably has 6-7 of the worlds top 10 keepers.
		
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So he'd have kept his place as No1 if he was still at Birmingham?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 28, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			So he'd have kept his place as No1 if he was still at Birmingham?
		
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Was never going to stay at Birmingham, he was loan there from City for 2 seasons.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Was never going to stay at Birmingham, he was loan there from City for 2 seasons.
		
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So why doesn't the big club argument stand up? 
He may have made his debut whilst at Birmingham,but was he England's established No1?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 28, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			So why doesn't the big club argument stand up? 
He may have made his debut whilst at Birmingham,but was he England's established No1?
		
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James and Robinson were the established keepers at the time and it was his performances with Birmingham that got him into the first team, City were not the big club then it was 4 years before they won the PL.


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## davemc1 (Aug 28, 2016)

SaintHacker said:



			Why?
		
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Just after your general opinion buddy, seems a great buy so far. no malice meant


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 28, 2016)

Surprised, but pleased to see Barkley not in the England squad, struggled last season, has started this season well, but only 3 games in, plenty of time to prove big sam right or wrong.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			James and Robinson were the established keepers at the time and it was his performances with Birmingham that got him into the first team, City were not the big club then it was 4 years before they won the PL.
		
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You sure it was 4 years? When did he return from Birmingham & when did City win their 1st Prem title? 
His performances with Birmingham may have got him a call up to the squad & a few appearances as sub in a few friendly games. 
But we were talking established No1&#128077;&#127995;


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## Tashyboy (Aug 28, 2016)

Well me, young Bradley Tash and Missis T are back. That first half at City was the best football I have ever seen. Poor West Ham were chasing shadows. However mr Bilic certainly earned his money at half time coz that second half performance was good very good. For 20-25 mins it was squeaky bum time as a city fan. Sterling is looking a totally differant player this year as is John Stones, he will be massive for City and England for the next 10 yrs. Sterling and stones look immense under Pep.

However without stating the obvious Joe Hart has been found out. On his day Joe has been Brilliant, on other days poor, very poor. Playing behind a dodgy back four last year highlighted that. His distribution since he came to City has been woeful, and the term squeaky bum time applied to Joe every game. Do you blame him or the goalkeeping coaches at City. At times he could not take a goal kick without it going into rowZ. It is obvious he has never played a game of five a side in his life where distribution from a keeper is paramount. Watching him on weds v Steau Bucharest and watching Willy today. The gulf between them is massive.

cannot understand Joes stance, City want him out, they have been honest with him, they will pay most of his wages, he has chance of a high standard of football, but not yet taken it. If he does not pull his finger out, his no1 spot as England goalie will be gone, and he struggle to get it back.

Dont get me started on that waste of space YaYa.


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## SaintHacker (Aug 28, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Just after your general opinion buddy, seems a great buy so far. no malice meant
		
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Ok, sorry, read it the wrong way. My honest opinion is that, on his day, he will take entire defences to pieces. His pace is outrageous, he hits 0-full tilt in about three paces and if he keeps the ball at his feet there isn't a player in the league that can stay with him. HOWEVER, when he's off, he's worse than bad. Remeber Ali Dia? Worse than him. Positional sense goes out the window, falls over a lot, usually the ball or his own feet, struggles to find a team mate 4 ft away, he is dreadful. This seems to happen most either when playing 'poor' teams, or particularly on cold december/january evening games. Oh, and he doesn't try and get back from the ACON in a hurry.
If Klopp can keep his head in the former then you've got a gem for a snip, if he can't you've had your pants properly pulled down.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Surprised, but pleased to see Barkley not in the England squad, struggled last season, has started this season well, but only 3 games in, plenty of time to prove big sam right or wrong.
		
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He really does need a big season,you can only live off potential for so long & at 22 he's cutting it fine. 
Looks top draw on his day.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 28, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			You sure it was 4 years? When did he return from Birmingham & when did City win their 1st Prem title? 
His performances with Birmingham may have got him a call up to the squad & a few appearances as sub in a few friendly games. 
But we were talking established No1&#128077;&#127995;
		
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Made his debut in 08, City won PL in 12.


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## One Planer (Aug 28, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Well me, young Bradley Tash and Missis T are back. That first half at City was the best football I have ever seen. Poor West Ham were chasing shadows. However mr Bilic certainly earned his money at half time coz that second half performance was good very good. For 20-25 mins it was squeaky bum time as a city fan. Sterling is looking a totally differant player this year as is John Stones, he will be massive for City and England for the next 10 yrs. Sterling and stones look immense under Pep.

However without stating the obvious Joe Hart has been found out. On his day Joe has been Brilliant, on other days poor, very poor. Playing behind a dodgy back four last year highlighted that. His distribution since he came to City has been woeful, and the term squeaky bum time applied to Joe every game. Do you blame him or the goalkeeping coaches at City. At times he could not take a goal kick without it going into rowZ. It is obvious he has never played a game of five a side in his life where distribution from a keeper is paramount. Watching him on weds v Steau Bucharest and watching Willy today. The gulf between them is massive.

cannot understand Joes stance, City want him out, they have been honest with him, they will pay most of his wages, he has chance of a high standard of football, but not yet taken it. If he does not pull his finger out, his no1 spot as England goalie will be gone, and he struggle to get it back.

Dont get me started on that waste of space YaYa.
		
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That's a point.

Where is Yoyo? Can't even get into the match day squad?


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Made his debut in 08, City won PL in 12.
		
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Got his 1st competitive cap in 2012 &#128077;&#127995;

Like I said were talking No1 here,not a bit part squad player.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 28, 2016)

One Planer said:



			That's a point.

Where is Yoyo? Can't even get into the match day squad?
		
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Still looking for his birthday cake?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 28, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Got his 1st competitive cap in 2012 &#128077;&#127995;

Like I said were talking No1 here,not a bit part squad player.
		
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Whatever, pick the stats you like to prove your point.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 28, 2016)

City are now in a similar situation to Chelsea a few years ago in that they pay inflated wages and that makes it hard to move players on who are happy to sit and take the cash. In Yaya's case he is near the end of his career and the need to play is less. He can sit it out in Manchester or move to China. Manchester is easier. I suspect you are stuck with him unless you offer him a whopping pay off. Hart's case is different as he still has plenty of time left and collecting splinters is a waste.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Whatever, pick the stats you like to prove your point.
		
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&#128514; Wow come on Paul it's really not difficult.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Hart


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2016)

One Planer said:



			That's a point.

Where is Yoyo? Can't even get into the match day squad?
		
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At the bottom of his garden counting his money.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			City are now in a similar situation to Chelsea a few years ago in that they pay inflated wages and that makes it hard to move players on who are happy to sit and take the cash. In Yaya's case he is near the end of his career and the need to play is less. He can sit it out in Manchester or move to China. Manchester is easier. I suspect you are stuck with him unless you offer him a whopping pay off. Hart's case is different as he still has plenty of time left and collecting splinters is a waste.
		
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You get the feeling that YaYa would be more than happy to just turn up to training & collect his massive wages.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 28, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			&#128514; Wow come on Paul it's really not difficult.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Hart

Click to expand...

You replied to posts after I'd said he was behind James and Robinson and you go on about people using google, your point is, he's only number No1 because he played for City, rubbish, he was established as the future of English goalkeeping and became that when others retired or were dropped, not because he was with City.


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## One Planer (Aug 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			At the bottom of his garden counting his money.
		
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Can't argue with that :rofl:

Perhaps I should of asked why he isn't playing or in the squad?


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 28, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Got his 1st competitive cap in 2012
		
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Pin-seeker said:



			ï˜‚ Wow come on Paul it's really not difficult.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Hart

Click to expand...

Come on Pin-seeker it's really not difficult. A direct quote from the link you posted.....

"[FONT=&quot]Hart was given his first competitive cap in a UEFA Euro 2012 qualifier, a 4â€“0 win against Bulgaria at Wembley[/FONT]"

The match v Bulgaria was September 2010 so his first competitive cap was in 2010 not 2012.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/8952514.stm


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2016)

Big Sam has got a perfect excuse to drop Hart Next Week, he's not playing club football.

That said, I dont think Forster or Heaton are any better, Butland looks a much better keeper than all 3.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Can't argue with that :rofl:

Perhaps I should of asked why he isn't playing or in the squad?
		
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Pep got rid of him from BarÃ§a, he doesn't rate him.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 28, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Can't argue with that :rofl:

Perhaps I should of asked why he isn't playing or in the squad?
		
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Pep doesn't see him as fitting into his plans. Don't forget he moved him on from Barcelona and now he is older, slower and less consistent. This is a year too far for him but his wages are huge so who, other than the Chinese will take him on? If he doesn't fancy life out there then City will be stuck with him until his contract ends.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			You replied to posts after I'd said he was behind James and Robinson and you go on about people using google, your point is, he's only number No1 because he played for City, rubbish, he was established as the future of English goalkeeping and became that when others retired or were dropped, not because he was with City.
		
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No Paul,me Lord Tyrion & one planeR were discussing it & you came in & have got yourself all confused and flustered AGAIN. 
And now you're throwing a stop AGAIN.

Yes I believe Joe Hart is England No1 because he's at a top team. 
He established himself as England's No1 whilst playing for that same top team. 

That's not me choosing stats that suit,it's just facts.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Come on Pin-seeker it's really not difficult. A direct quote from the link you posted.....

"[FONT=&quot]Hart was given his first competitive cap in a UEFA Euro 2012 qualifier, a 4â€“0 win against Bulgaria at Wembley[/FONT]"

The match v Bulgaria was September 2010 so his first competitive cap was in 2010 not 2012.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/8952514.stm

Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


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## Tashyboy (Aug 28, 2016)

Saw YaYa on weds night and young Bradley put more effort in eating his Haribos than YaYa did all night. Pep has gone on record and said there is a place in his team if he can put the effort in. Well he has not for the last 18 months so YaYas next game may well be in the Carling cup. When Fernando comes on as a sub before YaYa you know he don't give two hoots. Quite frankly I blame his agent as much as I blame YaYa. 
Just seen Agueros elbow on YouTube and he will missing from the Derby game, not one of his finest moments.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 28, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			No Paul,me Lord Tyrion & one planeR were discussing it & you came in & have got yourself all confused and flustered AGAIN. 
And now you're throwing a stop AGAIN.

Yes I believe Joe Hart is England No1 because he's at a top team. 
He established himself as England's No1 whilst playing for that same top team. 

That's not me choosing stats that suit,it's just facts.
		
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City bought him before the sugar daddy's arrived and were not a big club, you then introduced competitive and ColchesterFC made you look an a55.
Not throwing a strop just bored with you moving the goalposts everytime you saw an answer you didn't like.


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## fundy (Aug 28, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Well me, young Bradley Tash and Missis T are back. *That first half at City was the best football I have ever seen.* Poor West Ham were chasing shadows. However mr Bilic certainly earned his money at half time coz that second half performance was good very good. For 20-25 mins it was squeaky bum time as a city fan. Sterling is looking a totally differant player this year as is John Stones, he will be massive for City and England for the next 10 yrs. Sterling and stones look immense under Pep.

However without stating the obvious Joe Hart has been found out. On his day Joe has been Brilliant, on other days poor, very poor. Playing behind a dodgy back four last year highlighted that. His distribution since he came to City has been woeful, and the term squeaky bum time applied to Joe every game. Do you blame him or the goalkeeping coaches at City. At times he could not take a goal kick without it going into rowZ. It is obvious he has never played a game of five a side in his life where distribution from a keeper is paramount. Watching him on weds v Steau Bucharest and watching Willy today. The gulf between them is massive.

cannot understand Joes stance, City want him out, they have been honest with him, they will pay most of his wages, he has chance of a high standard of football, but not yet taken it. If he does not pull his finger out, his no1 spot as England goalie will be gone, and he struggle to get it back.

Dont get me started on that waste of space YaYa.
		
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really? you need to watch more football then lol


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			City bought him before the sugar daddy's arrived and were not a big club, you then introduced competitive and ColchesterFC made you look an a55.
Not throwing a strop just bored with you moving the goalposts everytime you saw an answer you didn't like.
		
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Yes they bought him before,no one said otherwise. 
We were talking about him being England No1.

Ok Paul maybe he can move to any club he chooses & he'll keep his place in the national team. 

As for looking like an a55 &#129300;


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## davemc1 (Aug 28, 2016)

SaintHacker said:



			Ok, sorry, read it the wrong way. My honest opinion is that, on his day, he will take entire defences to pieces. His pace is outrageous, he hits 0-full tilt in about three paces and if he keeps the ball at his feet there isn't a player in the league that can stay with him. HOWEVER, when he's off, he's worse than bad. Remeber Ali Dia? Worse than him. Positional sense goes out the window, falls over a lot, usually the ball or his own feet, struggles to find a team mate 4 ft away, he is dreadful. This seems to happen most either when playing 'poor' teams, or particularly on cold december/january evening games. Oh, and he doesn't try and get back from the ACON in a hurry.
If Klopp can keep his head in the former then you've got a gem for a snip, if he can't you've had your pants properly pulled down.
		
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wow! I've seen a little bit of the first person you mention and non of the second. The kid is a live wire. Totally different to what we have, really hard not to get carried away by him

Main reason I asked was because both mane and the fella from Newcastle we signed &#128540; Where greeted with the same response from fans on here, good on his day but glad of the money. 

Winjaldum?? Has shown no better than Can, whilst Mane has been boss &#128077;


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## Papas1982 (Aug 28, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			wow! I've seen a little bit of the first person you mention and non of the second. The kid is a live wire. Totally different to what we have, really hard not to get carried away by him

Main reason I asked was because both mane and the fella from Newcastle we signed &#63004; Where greeted with the same response from fans on here, good on his day but glad of the money. 

Winjaldum?? Has shown no better than Can, whilst Mane has been boss &#62541;
		
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Tbf thiugh, you've seen him play three games......

he he can be boss when in it, as said. If he wants it then he is ace but his attitude for us was very temperamental.


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## davemc1 (Aug 28, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Well so far he's played well twice on tv. That was his speciality with us. His ability is without question. It was he's work ethic, i mean he will run about. But he vanished far to often when the big teams weren't in town.

I still think the fee was too good to turn down, but said at the time. If he finally thinks he's made it and plays as he can week in, then he's got all you need as an attacker.
		
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Thanks for the reply mate ðŸ‘ Â£30odd m is a hell of a lot. Hopefully being under the microscope that is Liverpool will bring the best out of him. Cracking start to his lfc career. 

Sameish money Palace payed for Benteke. No brainier so far


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## davemc1 (Aug 29, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbf thiugh, you've seen him play three games......

he he can be boss when in it, as said. If he wants it then he is ace but his attitude for us was very temperamental.
		
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Haha this is true &#128077; 


But stop trying to burst my bubble, yeah? &#128540;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 29, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yes they bought him before,no one said otherwise. 
We were talking about him being England No1.

Ok Paul maybe he can move to any club he chooses & he'll keep his place in the national team. 

As for looking like an a55 &#129300;
		
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Again the goalposts move, you said he was only No1 because he's at a big club and facts prove he was there and an international goalkeeper and No1 before they became one of the big clubs.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 29, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Haha this is true &#62541; 


But stop trying to burst my bubble, yeah? &#63004;
		
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Hes got great talent. And he's direct, something I think a lot of clubs are missing in the prem. 

If Klopp keeps him engaged then I think he'll do you well. Personally, having seen him for a few years, when it gets cold he'll need extra motivation.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 29, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Main reason I asked was because both mane and the fella from Newcastle we signed &#63004; Where greeted with the same response from fans on here, good on his day but glad of the money. 

Winjaldum?? Has shown no better than Can, whilst Mane has been boss &#62541;
		
Click to expand...

The Toon fans would have queued up to drive him to Liverpool for half the fee you paid. You've been done there. He showed up some games but was anonymous for many, away games in particular. He may be a better player in a decent team, Newcastle were awful last year, so maybe Klopp can get the best out of him but I think he is one of your weaker signings. No problem in being proved wrong on this, we'll see by the end of the season.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 29, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Again the goalposts move, you said he was only No1 because he's at a big club and facts prove he was there and an international goalkeeper and No1 before they became one of the big clubs.
		
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No goal posts being moved Paul,City were spending big money & were up their when Hart established himself as the No1. 

So what year would you say Hart became England's No1?
We're talking 1st choice keeper,not 1st cap or coming on as substitute.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 29, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			City bought him before the sugar daddy's arrived and were not a big club, you then introduced competitive and ColchesterFC made you look an a55.
Not throwing a strop just bored with you moving the goalposts everytime you saw an answer you didn't like.
		
Click to expand...

According to some fans were not a big club were massive :whoo:


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 29, 2016)

The Agureo elbow looks pretty bad from one angle,but not so much from another angle.


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## Old Skier (Aug 29, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			The Agureo elbow looks pretty bad from one angle,but not so much from another angle.
		
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Not like him but guilty as charged. Shame if he's going to go down that road Chelsea will be after him.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 29, 2016)

Old Skier said:



			Not like him but guilty as charged. Shame if he's going to go down that road Chelsea will be after him.
		
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https://twitter.com/vivianrebello/status/770080643862687749

From the 1st angle he should get 20yrs.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 29, 2016)

If Henderson is named England captain I'm done with international football &#128547;


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 29, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			If Henderson is named England captain I'm done with international football &#128547;
		
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I wouldn't be done with international football but I would consider it a very poor decision. Surely there has to be better contenders?


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 29, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I wouldn't be done with international football but I would consider it a very poor decision. Surely there has to be better contenders?
		
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He shouldn't even be a starter. 
Brings nothing to the table.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 29, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			He shouldn't even be a starter. 
Brings nothing to the table.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure we really have a leader atm, but agreed he shouldn't be what we build around. 

I saw dier was at CB for Spurs at weekend. I thiugh him a drinkwater could be a solid base for us.


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## richy (Aug 29, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			If Henderson is named England captain I'm done with international football &#128547;
		
Click to expand...

Never thought I'd say this but I reckon I'd be done with them too. 

I wonder if we'll ever get an England manager who'll pick in form players in their right positions. I mean why has he included Rooney as a midfielder? Did he not watch the Euros?


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## Papas1982 (Aug 29, 2016)

richy said:



			Never thought I'd say this but I reckon I'd be done with them too. 

I wonder if we'll ever get an England manager who'll pick in form players in their right positions. I mean why has he included Rooney as a midfielder? Did he not watch the Euros?
		
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People said it at the time, but other than iceland where they were all shocking, i thought rooney played as well as any other midfielder.......


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## Tashyboy (Aug 29, 2016)

Within a year John Stones will be the captain for the next 10 yrs.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 29, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Within a year John Stones will be the captain for the next 10 yrs.
		
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Not with allardyce in charge. Stones spent all of 10 seconds in defence for you Saturday. Does that at intl level and he'll not last five minutes. We don't play Spanish footy.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 29, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



*Not sure we really have a leader atm*, but agreed he shouldn't be what we build around. 

I saw dier was at CB for Spurs at weekend. I thiugh him a drinkwater could be a solid base for us.
		
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We do, but he declined Sam's offer to come back.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 29, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			We do, but he declined Sam's offer to come back.
		
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And to be fair to Terry I think he realised that he's perhaps not quite good enough at that level these days. I don't see what Henderson brings either. I am worried that we'll get beaten on Sunday and could even struggle to win the group


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## Papas1982 (Aug 29, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			We do, but he declined Sam's offer to come back.
		
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His time has passed now. Whilst not denying how good he was. I don't think he would have been the answer. If he had Stones alongside him, we'd be buggered because Stones would go walkies and terry cant recover.


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## Slime (Aug 29, 2016)

richy said:



			Never thought I'd say this but I reckon I'd be done with them too. 

I wonder if we'll ever get an England manager who'll pick in form players in their right positions. I mean *why has he included Rooney as a midfielder? Did he not watch the Euros?*

Click to expand...

On that basis, he wouldn't pick any of those who went to the Euro's.
So, who would you take?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 29, 2016)

Once again we'll breeze through the group, Hodgson took the rap for the players at the Euros, same players will win this weekend and Sam's a hero.


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## One Planer (Aug 29, 2016)

Hart to Torino on loan being reported.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 29, 2016)

Well watching him alongside Cahill each week I know who'd be first on my team sheet out of the two of them, but Sam's will be different.

No doubt he is not as good as once he was, but I'm not sure who of the current England squad I'd choose to replace him with.  I thought he might be the ideal man to teach Stones what defending actually involves?


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## Papas1982 (Aug 29, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Well watching him alongside Cahill each week I know who'd be first on my team sheet out of the two of them, but Sam's will be different.

No doubt he is not as good as once he was, but I'm not sure who of the current England squad I'd choose to replace him with.  I thought he might be the ideal man to teach Stones what defending actually involves?
		
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Pique is often viewed as a great defender, not sure he would have learned much from terry. Unfortunately I think stones isn't made for an English defence.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 29, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Well watching him alongside Cahill each week I know who'd be first on my team sheet out of the two of them, but Sam's will be different.

No doubt he is not as good as once he was, but I'm not sure who of the current England squad I'd choose to replace him with.  I thought he might be the ideal man to teach Stones what defending actually involves?
		
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Pity Terry isn't at least involved in the squad, even as you say a mentor for Stones, or even guarenteed 45-60 mins or as a substitute if needed.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 29, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Pity Terry isn't at least involved in the squad, even as you say a mentor for Stones, or even guarenteed 45-60 mins* or as a substitute if needed.*

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Only problem with that Paul is when he came on he'd end up acting as a captain, whether or not he actually was, which might create as many problems as it solves.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 29, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Only problem with that Paul is when he came on he'd end up acting as a captain, whether or not he actually was, which might create as many problems as it solves.
		
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That would be down to what Sam needs, he may need another Captain on the pitch, almost a case of "In Emergency, Break Glass" :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 29, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Pique is often viewed as a great defender, not sure he would have learned much from terry. Unfortunately I think stones isn't made for an English defence.
		
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Stones has the potential to be what ever is needed.


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## richy (Aug 29, 2016)

Slime said:



			On that basis, he wouldn't pick any of those who went to the Euro's.
So, who would you take?
		
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Rooney isn't a midfielder, he just isn't. If he's included as a striker then fine....as long as he's playing better than the others available,if not then he doesn't play. Simple

I know that's probably not nice to hear being a Manure fan.


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## sawtooth (Aug 29, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Pity Terry isn't at least involved in the squad, even as you say a mentor for Stones, or even guarenteed 45-60 mins or as a substitute if needed.
		
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Terry for England? I dont think that would be good idea with his history do you?


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## Papas1982 (Aug 29, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Stones has the potential to be what ever is needed.
		
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I can't say I've seen many fantastic defensive attributes displayed by him if truth be told. Now that may be down to some of Martinez tactics, but whilst I think he can become a great defender in the style of a ball playing pique. So far he doesn't seem interested in defending. 

Ferdinand was undoubtably our most gifted (ball skills) defender but he could also defend first. I don't see it in stones yet, and Rio was how old when he was earmarked for success?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 29, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Terry for England? I dont think that would be good idea with his history do you?
		
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Yes, hence my post&#128515;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 29, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			I can't say I've seen many fantastic defensive attributes displayed by him if truth be told. Now that may be down to some of Martinez tactics, but whilst I think he can become a great defender in the style of a ball playing pique. So far he doesn't seem interested in defending. 

Ferdinand was undoubtably our most gifted (ball skills) defender but he could also defend first. I don't see it in stones yet, and Rio was how old when he was earmarked for success?
		
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Last season all the pressure/distraction got to him, if he settles down he has the potential to be superb, 2 years ago I would've said he was going to be one of the best centrsl defenders I'd seen, I hope for Englands sake he's put last season behind him.


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## fundy (Aug 29, 2016)

sky reporting Arsenal prepared to let Wilshere go out on loan to get 1st team football. How much did Wenger turn down from City last year???


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 29, 2016)

Rooney to remain captain.


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## sawtooth (Aug 29, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Yes, hence my post&#128515;
		
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I didn't see anything in your post about Anton Ferdinand and racial abuse though?

Hardly a good mentor/role model for Stones or anyone else.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 29, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Terry for England? I dont think that would be good idea with his history do you?
		
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History of what exactly?


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## sawtooth (Aug 29, 2016)

fundy said:



			sky reporting Arsenal prepared to let Wilshere go out on loan to get 1st team football. How much did Wenger turn down from City last year???
		
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Still haven't seen the best of Wilshere IMO just needs to sort his fitness out. Surely his luck will change at some point.


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 29, 2016)

fundy said:



			sky reporting Arsenal prepared to let Wilshere go out on loan to get 1st team football. How much did Wenger turn down from City last year???
		
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Very kind of Arsenal to allow another team's medical department to gain experience by letting Wilshere go out on loan. #madeofglass #alwaysinjured


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 29, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Very kind of Arsenal to allow another team's medical department to gain experience by letting Wilshere go out on loan. #madeofglass #alwaysinjured
		
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Which club?

Holby city?


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## sawtooth (Aug 29, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Which club?

Holby city?

Click to expand...

Maybe they will sign Sturridge as well mate ;-)


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I didn't see anything in your post about Anton Ferdinand and racial abuse though?

Hardly a good mentor/role model for Stones or anyone else.
		
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Try a search of Arsenal and racism then come back and have a proper discussion.


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## sawtooth (Aug 30, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Try a search of Arsenal and racism then come back and have a proper discussion.
		
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But I'm not one the suggesting that a racist mentors a young, future England captain. ?!


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## Tashyboy (Aug 30, 2016)

Rad a piece last year about Wilshere playing at Arsenal and at times because of a lack of players he was asked to play in the wrong role, defensive midfielder where he kept getting injured through his tackling. Was right right or journalistic rubbish. Same piece said that if he came to City he would play a differant role (similar to Silva) but even Silva has to tackle now and then.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 30, 2016)

Surely thats the end of Wilshere's Arsenal career?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			But I'm not one the suggesting that a racist mentors a young, future England captain. ?!
		
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Oh sorry, didn't realise there's good racism and bad racism!


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## Stuart_C (Aug 30, 2016)

fundy said:



			sky reporting Arsenal prepared to let Wilshere go out on loan to get 1st team football. *How much did Wenger turn down from City last year??*?
		
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Another bad decision from Wenger?


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## sawtooth (Aug 30, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Oh sorry, didn't realise there's good racism and bad racism!
		
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There isn't and I never said that there was.

Do you still think Terry would be a good role model and mentor for Stones in the England setup? Did you forget about Terry's past or do you think the racist element wouldn't be a problem?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			There isn't and I never said that there was.

Do you still think Terry would be a good role model and mentor for Stones in the England setup? Did you forget about Terry's past or do you think the racist element wouldn't be a problem?
		
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As a central defender and England captain yes Terry would be a very good person for Stones to learn from


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 30, 2016)

I can't believe people are still harking back to Terry. A very fine defender in his prime but does no one remember how people were walking past him at his last tournament for England? His legs have gone. Excellent to coach and give advice to Stones, or any other young centre half, but not to play any more at international level.


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## sawtooth (Aug 30, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Another bad decision from Wenger?
		
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That would depend on whether a) Wenger's crystal ball was working and b) he chose to use it at the time that the City bid came in.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 30, 2016)

I think this could be good for Wilshere. The lad is either made of glass or there are issues at Arsenal, training methods, pitches etc which are affecting him. If he goes elsewhere we will find out either way. He should also go to a club where he can play, if fit, week in week out. The current situation is not working for him so this is worth a punt. I bet it has got a few managers twitching this morning as he would be a welcome addition at a number of clubs.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 30, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Oh sorry, didn't realise there's good racism and bad racism!
		
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Paul how have you even come up with this? 

Where as sawtooth suggested this?


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 30, 2016)

I would have liked to see Stones at Chelsea playing alongside Terry,it could really have helped his game. 

Bringing up racism is just pathetic imo.


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## Piece (Aug 30, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think this could be good for Wilshere. The lad is either made of glass or there are issues at Arsenal, training methods, pitches etc which are affecting him. If he goes elsewhere we will find out either way. He should also go to a club where he can play, if fit, week in week out. The current situation is not working for him so this is worth a punt. I bet it has got a few managers twitching this morning as he would be a welcome addition at a number of clubs.
		
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We'll take him, not far to go and right next door on the training ground! Get Arsenal to pay most of the wages and job done. Then see if he's good enough to get in our team


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 30, 2016)

Good shout actually, why not.


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## fundy (Aug 30, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Another bad decision from Wenger?
		
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thought so at the time, at the numbers being mentioned I offered to drive him there myself lol, there again Ive always thought he was more problems than needed and highly over rated. there again i dont particularly rate any of the english players at arsenal


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 30, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			I would have liked to see Stones at Chelsea playing alongside Terry,it could really have helped his game. 

Bringing up racism is just pathetic imo.
		
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I didn't bring racism up, somehow Sean has made a leap from us talking about Terry's football ability (which he totalky knew) and an instance years ago which Terry denied, but was found guilty, under the rehabilitation of offenders act, Terry has served his punishment and previous offences should not be used against him, I simply highlighted Seans club has had issues with racism and he still supports them, I'd suggest people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			That would depend on whether a) Wenger's crystal ball was working and b) he chose to use it at the time that the City bid came in. 

Click to expand...

Probably the same crystal you're using to state Stones is a future England Captain.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			There isn't and I never said that there was.

Do you still think Terry would be a good role model and mentor for Stones in the England setup? Did you forget about Terry's past or do you think the racist element wouldn't be a problem?
		
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I think it would be ideal and if the FA and Sam think it's alright, who am I to question them? Move on, you're making something out of nothing.


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## ger147 (Aug 30, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I didn't bring racism up, somehow Sean has made a leap from us talking about Terry's football ability (which he totalky knew) and an instance years ago which Terry denied, but was found guilty, under the rehabilitation of offenders act, Terry has served his punishment and previous offences should not be used against him, I simply highlighted Seans club has had issues with racism and he still supports them, I'd suggest people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
		
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Terry was found not guilty in court so not sure what any rehabilition of offenders act has to do with it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 30, 2016)

ger147 said:



			Terry was found not guilty in court so not sure what any rehabilition of offenders act has to do with it.
		
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Apologies, confused with him being banned by FA and doing his ban


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## sawtooth (Aug 30, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I think it would be ideal and if the FA and Sam think it's alright, who am I to question them? Move on, you're making something out of nothing.
		
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I wonder if Anton Ferdinand thinks being called those vile names '"was nothing". Or the other black players in the England camp, what they think about Terry coming back.

It's at odds with kicking racism out of football.


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## sawtooth (Aug 30, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Probably the same crystal you're using to state Stones is a future England Captain.
		
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I think you meant Holding, and did I say that he would be future England Captain? 

I think I said that Holding would turn out to be better than Stones. And I stand by that.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I wonder if Anton Ferdinand thinks being called those vile names '"was nothing". Or the other black players in the England camp, what they think about Terry coming back.

It's at odds with kicking racism out of football.
		
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He served his ban, should he be punished for life? You're making something out of nothing


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## Stuart_C (Aug 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			That would depend on whether a) Wenger's crystal ball was working and b) he chose to use it at the time that the City bid came in. 

Click to expand...

What are you confused about? Do you think  Wenger knew about Wilshere's previous long list of injuries prior to the man city bid?


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## sawtooth (Aug 30, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			He served his ban, should he be punished for life? You're making something out of nothing
		
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No he should not be punished further , he just shouldn't be rewarded with a role in the England team mentoring young professionals.

Again, it's easy to say that it was nothing when you're not the target of racism.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			But I'm not one the suggesting that a racist mentors a young, future England captain. ?!
		
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Crystal Ball time, this post maybe


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			No he should not be punished further , he just shouldn't be rewarded with a role in the England team mentoring young professionals.

Again, it's easy to say that it was nothing when you're not the target of racism.
		
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You have no idea about me and whether I have subjected to racial abuse or not. 
Facts are we were talking about Football and you have an axe to grind.
Absolute no excuse for racism, but people learn and move on, as it is Terry has said no, so it's a none argument


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## sawtooth (Aug 30, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			You have no idea about me and whether I have subjected to racial abuse or not. 
Facts are we were talking about Football and you have an axe to grind.
Absolute no excuse for racism, but people learn and move on, as it is Terry has said no, so it's a none argument
		
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Target of racism in this context I mean. AFAIK he didn't call you a BC.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Target of racism in this context I mean. AFAIK he didn't call you a BC.
		
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Serving 36 years in the Forces all over the world I can assure you I've been on the receiving end of a lot worse, I won't be replying to anymore about racism.
Nice of you to reply about Stones and Captain prediction.


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## sawtooth (Aug 30, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Serving 36 years in the Forces all over the world I can assure you I've been on the receiving end of a lot worse, I won't be replying to anymore about racism.
Nice of you to reply about Stones and Captain prediction.
		
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I got confused, thought you were saying Stones for captain a few posts ago.

Yeah better to leave the racism thing there I reckon.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 30, 2016)

fundy said:



			thought so at the time, at the numbers being mentioned I offered to drive him there myself lol, there again Ive always thought he was more problems than needed and highly over rated. there again i dont particularly rate any of the english players at arsenal
		
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I think he'd be a good player if he could stay fit but looking at his injury record  there's only so long you can stay loyal to an injury prone  player for. 

Same goes for Sturridge, he's no use to us sitting on the physio table week after week.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 30, 2016)

Remy to Palace for a year. Good signing for both parties. Does that mean they will play 2 up front? Benteke and Remy would make quite a duo. No point in getting either and plonking them on the bench.


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## sawtooth (Aug 30, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			What are you confused about? Do you think  Wenger knew about Wilshere's previous long list of injuries prior to the man city bid?
		
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Wilshere was fit at the time of the bid and looking forward to the start of the season. 

How would Wenger know a couple of months later Wilshere would sustain a season lasting injury?


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 30, 2016)

Well with players such as Wilshere and Sturridge that situation never seems that far away. His history suggests he is only a game or two away from an injury, for Arsenal anyway. I don't think much of a crystal ball was required.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Wilshere was fit at the time of the bid and looking forward to the start of the season. 

How would Wenger know a couple of months later Wilshere would sustain a season lasting injury?
		
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His injury record isnt the best and at the time it was  a gamble  that he'd remain fit.  For the type of money that was being offered  for a player with his injury record, it was a strange decision to keep him. 

But any negative comment about Wenger you'll just defend him and make excuses.


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## sawtooth (Aug 30, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			His injury record isnt the best and at the time it was  a gamble  that he'd remain fit.  For the type of money that was being offered  for a player with his injury record, it was a strange decision to keep him. 

But any negative comment about Wenger you'll just defend him and make excuses.
		
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Wenger is s father figure to players like Wilshere who has grown up at the club and Wilshere loves the club.

I doubt either of them wanted the Ciry deal to happen. The loan seems a sensible arrangement and hopefully he can come back to us later on. I for one think Wilshere is worth persevering with.

Similar to Sturridge, damned if you do damned if you don't (keep him)


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## fundy (Aug 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Wenger is s father figure to players like Wilshere who has grown up at the club and Wilshere loves the club.

I doubt either of them wanted the Ciry deal to happen. The loan seems a sensible arrangement and hopefully he can come back to us later on. I for one think Wilshere is worth persevering with.

Similar to Sturridge, damned if you do damned if you don't (keep him)
		
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you say this like we were offered 5m for him. what happened to wenger the economist when silly numbers were on the table? he turned into wenger the father figure?


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## chrisd (Aug 30, 2016)

Remy on loan and possibly Wilshere coming too with Benteke now getting fit to play. I'm very happy with this !


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 30, 2016)

Aquero charged with violent conduct, possibly misses the Manchester Derby.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Wenger is s father figure to players like Wilshere who has grown up at the club and Wilshere loves the club.

I doubt either of them wanted the Ciry deal to happen. The loan seems a sensible arrangement and hopefully he can come back to us later on. I for one think Wilshere is worth persevering with.

Similar to Sturridge, damned if you do damned if you don't (keep him)
		
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What happens if he breaks down while on loan with whoever?  What happens next? Your asset is worth peanuts. As much as we don't like it, all footballers are assets and football is a business. I hate it but that's what we've now got.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 30, 2016)

Out of curiosity I've just looked at JW's stats and I'm amazed he's played c.125 games in 8 seasons for Arsenal.

And Wenger turned down Â£40m from City :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Wilshere was fit at the time of the bid and looking forward to the start of the season. 

How would Wenger know a couple of months later Wilshere would sustain a season lasting injury?
		
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All Wenger had to do was look at Wheelchairs history in the previous seasons to show he spends more time with the physio than the coach - he is giving both Anderton and King a run for their money for being made of balsa wood


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 30, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Aquero charged with violent conduct, possibly misses the Manchester Derby.
		
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:thup: so he should Fellaini or Costa would of already been found guilty!


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## Kellfire (Aug 30, 2016)

Chelsea trying to buy back David Luiz. That's an interesting one.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 30, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			:thup: so he should Fellaini or Costa would of already been found guilty!
		
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Rightly so, the pair of thugs


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 30, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Aquero charged with violent conduct, possibly misses the Manchester Derby.
		
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Rightly so.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 30, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			:thup: so he should Fellaini or Costa would of already been found guilty!
		
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Your joking, Fellaini only gets done one out of every 5 times he does it.

On a separate note, looks like Arsenal are panic buying. :rofl:


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## fundy (Aug 30, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Your joking, Fellaini only gets done one out of every 5 times he does it.

On a separate note, looks like Arsenal are panic buying. :rofl:
		
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why? Mustafi and Perez been on the radar for a while. Mustafi definitely fits the bill of what we need, whether Perez is good enough only time will tell

more strange is the loanees going out, Joel Campbell gone and looks like Chambers, Gnabry and Wilshere all going too, squad looks pretty thin on the grounds in certain areas still


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 30, 2016)

fundy said:



			why? Mustafi and Perez been on the radar for a while. Mustafi definitely fits the bill of what we need, whether Perez is good enough only time will tell

more strange is the loanees going out, Joel Campbell gone and looks like Chambers, Gnabry and Wilshere all going too, squad looks pretty thin on the grounds in certain areas still
		
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Have been after Mustafi for a while and certainly interesting to see how his second go at the prem goes 

But Perez been on the radar for a while ?

Wasn't he about to join another club and Arsenal came in last minute after missing out on - Vardy , Lacazette , Morata and all the other strikers ? And a strange signing at that when looking at his record 

But no idea why players like Chambers and Campbell are going - Campbell finally got given a go last season and looked a player 

Thinning out a squad already not the deepest doesn't seem the smartest move as the fixtures start to pile up


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 30, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Your joking, Fellaini only gets done one out of every 5 times he does it.

On a separate note, looks like Arsenal are panic buying. :rofl:
		
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Arsene been having lunch with Harry? 

Hey you leave hero Fellaini alone after he gallantly saved the granny on Saturday.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 30, 2016)

This looks weird from Arsene. The squad looks very thin in places and a few injuries, and surely that's a given with Arsenal, and they could be in trouble to sustain a PL or CL campaign. Are these players really better than what they have?


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## fundy (Aug 30, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Have been after Mustafi for a while and certainly interesting to see how his second go at the prem goes 

But Perez been on the radar for a while ?

Wasn't he about to join another club and Arsenal came in last minute after missing out on - Vardy , Lacazette , Morata and all the other strikers ? And a strange signing at that when looking at his record 

But no idea why players like Chambers and Campbell are going - Campbell finally got given a go last season and looked a player 

Thinning out a squad already not the deepest doesn't seem the smartest move as the fixtures start to pile up
		
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how he has walcott sanogo and the ox above campbell and gnabry i dont understand, and letting a versatile covering option in areas we are weak in Chambers go makes no sense at all


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## sawtooth (Aug 30, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Out of curiosity I've just looked at JW's stats and I'm amazed he's played c.125 games in 8 seasons for Arsenal.

And Wenger turned down Â£40m from City :rofl:
		
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And he's only 24 and has a lot of years in front of him. Not ready for the scrap heap yet and we will probably get him back or sell him for a profit. Hopefully the former because I like the player a lot.


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## sawtooth (Aug 30, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All Wenger had to do was look at Wheelchairs history in the previous seasons to show he spends more time with the physio than the coach - he is giving both Anderton and King a run for their money for being made of balsa wood
		
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Wenger is fully aware of Wilsheres injury record and knows what he is capable of when fit. 

Please don't call him Wheelchairs, it's inappropriate and insulting to people who genuinely use them.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Wenger is fully aware of Wilsheres injury record and knows what he is capable of when fit. 

Please don't call him Wheelchairs, it's inappropriate and insulting to people who genuinely use them.
		
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If he is fully aware of his injury record then why didn't he take Â£40mil when it was offered - because it's Wenger 

Do you back every single decision Wenger makes ? Do you have a breaking point or is it until the bitter end ?


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## Stuart_C (Aug 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Wenger is fully aware of Wilsheres injury record and knows what he is capable of when fit. 

*Please don't call him Wheelchairs, it's inappropriate and insulting to people who genuinely use them*.
		
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Lighten up fella.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 30, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If he is fully aware of his injury record then why didn't he take Â£40mil when it was offered - because it's Wenger 

Do you back every single decision Wenger makes ? Do you have a breaking point or is it until the bitter end ?
		
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Yes and yes is my guess.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 30, 2016)

Who offered Â£40m for him? 
Paper talk?


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## sawtooth (Aug 30, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If he is fully aware of his injury record then why didn't he take Â£40mil when it was offered - because it's Wenger 

Do you back every single decision Wenger makes ? Do you have a breaking point or is it until the bitter end ?
		
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I'm pleased Wilshere didn't leave to go to our rivals for Â£40M . If he can stay fit he is still worth Â£40M and potentially more. Different if he was 29 but he's not, he still has plenty of time.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I'm pleased Wilshere didn't leave to go to our rivals for Â£40M . If he can stay fit he is still worth Â£40M and potentially more. Different if he was 29 but he's not, he still has plenty of time.
		
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Big IF in that sentence and it's quite clear that he doesn't stay fit - so let's deal with the reality as opposed to possibilities 

He doesn't stay fit , the evidence of that is quite clear - so why wouldn't someone take a lot of money on someone who clearly can't stay fit ? Do you think Wenger should have sold him ?


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## Stuart_C (Aug 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I'm pleased Wilshere didn't leave to go to our rivals for Â£40M . If he can stay fit he is still worth Â£40M and potentially more. Different if he was 29 but he's not, he still has plenty of time.
		
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Was you pleased with RVP going to United for Â£30m and winning the tittle?


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## fundy (Aug 30, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Was you pleased with RVP going to United for Â£30m and winning the tittle?
		
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i know youre not asking me but I didnt have a problem selling RVP for Â£30m, just not to Man U at the time. Another whose fitness was very questionable so understood the sale. Not to sell Wilshere for Â£40m laughably bad though imo


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 30, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He doesn't stay fit , the evidence of that is quite clear - so why wouldn't someone take a lot of money on someone who clearly can't stay fit ? Do you think Wenger should have sold him ?
		
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Is the problem with Wilshere or with something else at Arsenal? Training methods, training pitches, physios, rushing him back too quickly after previous injuries or something else? Genuine question as Arsenal seem to bemoan their bad luck with injuries almost every season more than a lot of other clubs.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 30, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Was you pleased with RVP going to United for Â£30m and winning the tittle?
		
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Â£30m I thought it was Â£22m

Or was it *20*....


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## sawtooth (Aug 30, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Big IF in that sentence and it's quite clear that he doesn't stay fit - so let's deal with the reality as opposed to possibilities 

He doesn't stay fit , the evidence of that is quite clear - so why wouldn't someone take a lot of money on someone who clearly can't stay fit ? Do you think Wenger should have sold him ?
		
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No I'm pleased Wilshere is still at Arsenal. Like I said he is still worth a lot of money and its a calculated risk keeping him. Just because the last 5 years have been injury ridden it doesn't mean that the next 5 will be.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 30, 2016)

fundy said:



			i know youre not asking me but I didnt have a problem selling RVP for Â£30m, just not to Man U at the time. Another whose fitness was very questionable so understood the sale. Not to sell Wilshere for Â£40m laughably bad though imo
		
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The difference between the 2 is massive when both fit, RVP won you games single handedly, wilsheres never fit enough to   Wenger weakend his side and improved the United side with that deal.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 30, 2016)

fundy said:



			why? Mustafi and Perez been on the radar for a while. Mustafi definitely fits the bill of what we need, whether Perez is good enough only time will tell

more strange is the loanees going out, Joel Campbell gone and looks like Chambers, Gnabry and Wilshere all going too, squad looks pretty thin on the grounds in certain areas still
		
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Errrrrr, I was joking matey, hence the smiley.:thup:


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## garyinderry (Aug 30, 2016)

I would like to see Wilshire go to Everton for the year.   really hope he can stay fit.   west ham another good option, as he he won't have to move house.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 30, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Hey you leave hero Fellaini alone after he gallantly saved the granny-fancier on Saturday.
		
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You should help your captain, when you can.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 31, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			You should help your captain, when you can.
		
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:rofl:


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## sawtooth (Aug 31, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			The difference between the 2 is massive when both fit, RVP won you games single handedly, wilsheres never fit enough to   Wenger weakend his side and improved the United side with that deal.
		
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For 1 season I agree. An awful lot of money to pay for one good year but I guess the gamble paid off because United won the league with him. 

If he wanted to go what can you do though? Not a lot.


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## GreiginFife (Aug 31, 2016)

Talk of Chelsea looking to take David Luiz back for 32 mil.
Bit of a panic buy? How fo Chelski fans feel about that one?


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## Kellfire (Aug 31, 2016)

The other factor that no one seems to be raising about Wilshere is that he isn't really that good.


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## sawtooth (Aug 31, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			The other factor that no one seems to be raising about Wilshere is that he isn't really that good.
		
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Maybe because only you think that.

What's your team again? Spurs?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Maybe because only you think that.

What's your team again? Spurs?
		
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I agree with him - he is a decent player but nothing outstanding , never been blown away by him


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 31, 2016)

GreiginFife said:



			Talk of Chelsea looking to take David Luiz back for 32 mil.
Bit of a panic buy? How fo Chelski fans feel about that one?
		
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Probably terrified. The rest of us are all laughing and looking forward to him coming back. Always a goal around with him at the back.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 31, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Maybe because only you think that.

What's your team again? Spurs?
		
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What relevance is the team he supports? 

Belive its UTD btw, wilshere in my memory has had one stand out game for Arsenal, against Barca. He's got a poor attitude to go with his inflated ego. The fact that it's palace and bmouth after him, shows exactly what other clubs think of him (no disrespect to those two clubs).


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## sawtooth (Aug 31, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			What relevance is the team he supports? 

Belive its UTD btw, wilshere in my memory has had one stand out game for Arsenal, against Barca. He's got a poor attitude to go with his inflated ego. The fact that it's palace and bmouth after him, shows exactly what other clubs think of him (no disrespect to those two clubs).
		
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It's because Wenger won't let him go to a rival , that's pretty obvious IMO.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 31, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			It's because Wenger won't let him go to a rival , that's pretty obvious IMO.
		
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Don't think JW would be welcome at Spurs either after his sing songs....


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## Papas1982 (Aug 31, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			It's because Wenger won't let him go to a rival , that's pretty obvious IMO.
		
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Since when has wenger not sold to rivals? Quite simply teams that think he adds something have made a bid. Nit one top team would take wilshere right now. 

at his peak (where he never performs) he's a good midfielder. But quite simply his isn't good or fit enough. At least when sturridge plays you generally get results from him.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 31, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			It's because Wenger won't let him go to a rival , that's pretty obvious IMO.
		
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Or Arsenal don't have the players that the top teams want anymore.
When was the last time you saw a rumour about any of Arsenals best players being linked with a top club?


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## Kellfire (Aug 31, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Maybe because only you think that.

What's your team again? Spurs?
		
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Many people think it. He doesn't score goals, reckless tackler, his second touch is often a lunge tackle and that's all when he actually gets on the park which isn't nearly often enough.

Talented? Yes, but he is utterly mindless and the body just doesn't stand up.

I support Man Utd. I await being told why this matters.


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## sawtooth (Aug 31, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Since when has wenger not sold to rivals? Quite simply teams that think he adds something have made a bid. Nit one top team would take wilshere right now. 

at his peak (where he never performs) he's a good midfielder. But quite simply his isn't good or fit enough. At least when sturridge plays you generally get results from him.
		
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He's not being sold he's being loaned. I can't recall an Arsenal player going to a rival on loan before.

Juve and Roma are top teams aren't they? They are reportedly interested in a loan deal.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 31, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			He's not being sold he's being loaned. I can't recall an Arsenal player going to a rival on loan before.

Juve and Roma are top teams aren't they? They are reportedly interested in a loan deal.
		
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Funny how he's apparently already met Bmouth and Palace. Haven't seen his meetings with Roma or Juve, most likely the agent trying to gather some interest. 

The he point remains. If a top rival wanted him, they'd make a cheeky offer. They haven't.....


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## fundy (Aug 31, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			The other factor that no one seems to be raising about Wilshere is that he isn't really that good.
		
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think I raised it a while ago lol

as for where he goes on loan, id be utterly amazed if he leaves the london area, let alone England. Palace big favs surely


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## sawtooth (Aug 31, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Many people think it. He doesn't score goals, reckless tackler, his second touch is often a lunge tackle and that's all when he actually gets on the park which isn't nearly often enough.

Talented? Yes, but he is utterly mindless and the body just doesn't stand up.

I support Man Utd. I await being told why this matters.
		
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It matters because when you look it objectively and you know a bit about football then you should recognise how brilliant a footballer Wilshere is.


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## jp5 (Aug 31, 2016)

Objectively being an Arsenal fan of course 

Think the best games I've seen Wilshere play have been for England.

Definitely would have accepted Â£40m from City last year, seemed like a no-brainer really.


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## sawtooth (Aug 31, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Funny how he's apparently already met Bmouth and Palace. Haven't seen his meetings with Roma or Juve, most likely the agent trying to gather some interest. 


The he point remains. If a top rival wanted him, they'd make a cheeky offer. They haven't.....
		
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It's a season long loan so unlikely to want to uproot and go abroad. Also it's been reported that being dropped from the England squad has prompted the loan move so better to stay in the EPL.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 31, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			It's a season long loan so unlikely to want to uproot and go abroad. Also it's been reported that being dropped from the *England squad has prompted the loan move so better to stay in the EPL*.
		
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Thats why Hart is going to Torino then?

he shouldn't have been in the squad to get dropped from in the first place. 

He started one 1 prem league game last season. 

To claim that he is a brilliant footballer is about as bias a statement as there can be, as to understanding football. If wenger said playing an onion up front was the way forward you would support it.


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## sawtooth (Aug 31, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Thats why Hart is going to Torino then?

he shouldn't have been in the squad to get dropped from in the first place. 

He started one 1 prem league game last season. 

To claim that he is a brilliant footballer is about as bias a statement as there can be, as to understanding football. If wenger said playing an onion up front was the way forward you would support it.
		
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If you say so.

But I can point to the 6-7 man of the match perfomances for England during qualification. It's not about Arsenal, he performs and shines at the highest level.....when he is fit.


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## Slime (Aug 31, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			The other factor that no one seems to be raising about Wilshere is that he isn't really that good.
		
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He can be a very good player, at times, but I don't really think he's anything special, certainly not on a consistent basis. I certainly wouldn't want him anywhere near my team.
That's why he'll probably end up at Bournemouth.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 31, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			If you say so.

But I can point to the 6-7 man of the match perfomances for England during qualification. It's not about Arsenal, he performs and shines at the highest level.....when he is fit.
		
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ok. So he's a brilliant arsenal player, yet he doesn't perform for them? The discussion was about him being a waste at arsenal. 

But it if you wanna try and move the goals posts. This England performances you mention. They were at the the highest level? Qualifiers? The euros or World Cup is the highest stage and he couldn't get a place on the team.


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## sawtooth (Aug 31, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			ok. So he's a brilliant arsenal player, yet he doesn't perform for them? The discussion was about him being a waste at arsenal. 

But it if you wanna try and move the goals posts. This England performances you mention. They were at the the highest level? Qualifiers? The euros or World Cup is the highest stage and he couldn't get a place on the team.
		
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because he was injured?!

When fully fit he would be one of the first names on the team sheet for club and country.

I just hope that his injuries haven't taken their toll and that he can get back to his best. At only 24 his best years should be yet to come but like I say it depends on what damage has already been done.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 31, 2016)

jp5 said:



			Objectively being an Arsenal fan of course 

Think the best games I've seen Wilshere play have been for England.

Definitely would have accepted Â£40m from City last year, seemed like a no-brainer really.
		
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Did they actually make an offer?


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 31, 2016)

Unfortunately with regards to Wilshere "because he was injured" is at the heart of the matter. Good or not if you spend 3/4 of the season on the phsio's bench then you are not much use to anyone. Carroll, Wilshere, Sturridge all come under the same category. You can't spend your career being called great based on a run of 4 games before another injury happens.


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## garyinderry (Aug 31, 2016)

This is surely a good move for the lad.   already has years wasted sitting injured so going to a team and getting game time is vital. 

Talk sport were positively foaming at the mouth yesterday at the prospect of him leaving arsenal and staying fit and playing well as if it would be a massive stick to beat arsenal with.  This is exactly what every arsenal supporter and Wenger wants to happen. 

Show us what you are made of and then come back.   its the best for all parties.


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## davemc1 (Aug 31, 2016)

Anyone else getting bored of all the wilshere talk? &#128164; international breaks are to blame for this &#128078;


On another matter, if Klopp doesn't sign a lb (which doesn't look likely) I'll be very disappointed. Milner cannot be a first choice lb, borders on negligence to me.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 31, 2016)

Dave, I think it borders on negligence if he doesn't. It is so clearly your weak link, I'm assuming your new keeper is not far away from returning and is going to replace Mignolet.

As an Everton man I'm looking for a keeper and a striker. I'm not hearing anything on the keeper front which worries me. The rest I am quite happy with.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 31, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Anyone else getting bored of all the wilshere talk? &#128164; international breaks are to blame for this &#128078;


On another matter, if Klopp doesn't sign a lb (which doesn't look likely) I'll be very disappointed. Milner cannot be a first choice lb, borders on negligence to me.
		
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Transfer window should shut before the season starts.


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## sawtooth (Aug 31, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			This is surely a good move for the lad.   already has years wasted sitting injured so going to a team and getting game time is vital. 

Talk sport were positively foaming at the mouth yesterday at the prospect of him leaving arsenal and staying fit and playing well as if it would be a massive stick to beat arsenal with.  This is exactly what every arsenal supporter and Wenger wants to happen. 

Show us what you are made of and then come back.   its the best for all parties.
		
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I think you're right it seems the best solution all round.

Wilshere gets valuable playing time with the opportunity to get back into the England squad, prove fitness, but remains an Arsenal player.

We need to offload a few as well because by my reckoning we have 3 too many over the allowed 25 man squad. Can see a couple more leaving before the end of the window.


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## sawtooth (Aug 31, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Anyone else getting bored of all the wilshere talk? &#128164; international breaks are to blame for this &#128078;


On another matter, if Klopp doesn't sign a lb (which doesn't look likely) I'll be very disappointed. Milner cannot be a first choice lb, borders on negligence to me.
		
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Yeah let's take it back to Liverpool for a change lol.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 31, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Transfer window should shut before the season starts.
		
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I prefer the old way at the  end of march. 

There's a lot of inflated prices because the window is in place.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 31, 2016)

Sky are reporting Sissoko to Tottenham for Â£30m based on payments over the course of his contract. My son has just rung, season ticket holder, and has offered to pitch in for his taxi fare. Had he been 17 if he would have driven him to WHL. There will not be a single tear at St James when he goes and if they get that for him then the laughter and disbelief will be long and hard. Not disruptive, just anonymous.


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## One Planer (Aug 31, 2016)

Bony to Stoke apparently (Loan).


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 31, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Maybe because only you think that.

What's your team again? Spurs?
		
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I think Wilshere is a good player, but like Sturridge, its hard to build a team around someone who is only available 25-30% of the time.


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## Paperboy (Aug 31, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Anyone else getting bored of all the wilshere talk? &#55357;&#56484; international breaks are to blame for this &#55357;&#56398;


On another matter, if Klopp doesn't sign a lb (which doesn't look likely) I'll be very disappointed. Milner cannot be a first choice lb, borders on negligence to me.
		
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Flanagan has played there in the past. Thought he did ok at the end of last season when he played. Gomez still injured then?


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 31, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			If wenger said playing an onion up front was the way forward you would support it.
		
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It's pronounced O - nion, by the Way (its a hard "O"). :rofl:


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## davemc1 (Aug 31, 2016)

Paperboy said:



			Flanagan has played there in the past. Thought he did ok at the end of last season when he played. Gomez still injured then?
		
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Flanno out on loan at Burnley. Gomez also has ? Regarding ability imo. 

If all else fails let's give saints a call and sign Bertrand &#128514;


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## davemc1 (Aug 31, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah let's take it back to Liverpool for a change lol.
		
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Now you're talking :rofl:


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 31, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Flanno out on loan at Burnley. Gomez also has ? Regarding ability imo. 

If all else fails let's give saints a call and sign Bertrand &#62978;
		
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I'd go for Cresswell at west ham, looks like a younger Leighton Baines.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 31, 2016)

Marcos Alonso signs for Chelsea.  Just what we need; a left back when Cesar "Dave" Azpilicueta has probably been our most consistent player for some time.  The only saving grace would be if Conte shifts Dave back to his natural right side and parks Ivanovic on the bench.  Must really give hope to Ola Aina as wellâ€¦â€¦â€¦.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 31, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Sky are reporting Sissoko to Tottenham for Â£30m based on payments over the course of his contract. My son has just rung, season ticket holder, and has offered to pitch in for his taxi fare. Had he been 17 if he would have driven him to WHL. There will not be a single tear at St James when he goes and if they get that for him then the laughter and disbelief will be long and hard. Not disruptive, just anonymous.
		
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The man from tottingham he say Noooo

Everton next option .......


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 31, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Marcos Alonso signs for Chelsea.  Just what we need; a left back when Cesar "Dave" Azpilicueta has probably been our most consistent player for some time.  The only saving grace would be if Conte shifts Dave back to his natural right side and parks Ivanovic on the bench.  Must really give hope to Ola Aina as wellâ€¦â€¦â€¦. 

Click to expand...

What about Luis?


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## Stuart_C (Aug 31, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'd go for Cresswell at west ham, looks like a younger Leighton Baines.
		
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I'd have Cresswell, England's best left back.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 31, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			What about Luis?
		
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He's a better DM than CB IMO.

 Unless Conte thinks he can convert him into a top CB I think it's a mad signing.


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 31, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			He's a better DM than CB IMO.

 Unless Conte thinks he can convert him into a top CB I think it's a mad signing.
		
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I can't believe this but I agree!


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 31, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			What about Luis?
		
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For Â£3 million he's worth a punt.


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## Slime (Aug 31, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I'd have Cresswell, England's best left back.
		
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Now, you wouldn't be on a fishing trip would you? :smirk:


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## Stuart_C (Aug 31, 2016)

Slime said:



			Now, you wouldn't be on a fishing trip would you? :smirk:
		
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No, I think he's boss.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 31, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			The man from tottingham he say Noooo

Everton next option .......
		
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I bloomin hope not &#128552;


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 31, 2016)

Wheelchairs to Bournemouth apparently? Not good for Nathan Ake. :angry:


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Wheelchairs to Bournemouth apparently? Not good for Nathan Ake. :angry:
		
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I wouldn't worry - don't expect Wheelchair to be fit for more than a month

Amazed at the signing of Luiz


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 31, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I wouldn't worry - don't expect Wheelchair to be fit for more than a month

Amazed at the signing of Luiz
		
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If the reports are true it's effectively a free as PSG allegedly haven't been keeping up their paymentsâ€¦â€¦..


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 31, 2016)

Balotelli joins Nice on a free. 
Was he actually ever any good?


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## pbrown7582 (Aug 31, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			If the reports are true it's effectively a free as PSG allegedly haven't been keeping up their paymentsâ€¦â€¦..
		
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Maybe the 50m wasn't such a good deal then if you never got it


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## Stuart_C (Aug 31, 2016)

Sissoko for Â£30m :rofl: that trumps Â£35m for Andy Carroll :ears:


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## Stuart_C (Aug 31, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Balotelli joins Nice on a free. 
Was he actually ever any good?
		
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No.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 31, 2016)

How can Chelsea or anyone else for that matter send a player out on loan for 3yrs?? Surely that just makes a mockery of the system.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 31, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			No.
		
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I agree,i just can't see why clubs keep signing him.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 31, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Maybe the 50m wasn't such a good deal then if you never got it 

Click to expand...

Didn't see this one coming.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 31, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			How can Chelsea or anyone else for that matter send a player out on loan for 3yrs?? Surely that just makes a mockery of the system.
		
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Agreed. How is that not a sale? Weird.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 31, 2016)

Carragher has just tweeted how Nice have paid over the top for Balotelli. Ha ha


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 31, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I'd have Cresswell, England's best left back.
		
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Thats no great criteria....


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 31, 2016)

The total amount spent in this transfer window is just crazy. 
How do the other major leagues in Europe compare? 

Kate Abdo tho &#128076;


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## fundy (Aug 31, 2016)

sounds like Wilsheres gone to Bournemouth


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## sawtooth (Aug 31, 2016)

fundy said:



			sounds like Wilsheres gone to Bournemouth
		
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If he stays fit then they have done very well.I know it's a big If. I wish him the best of luck and hopefully he'll be back.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 31, 2016)

It looks like Everton have got a weed on. :rofl:


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## fundy (Aug 31, 2016)

My favourite tweet for a long while  
_
The fight between Spurs and Everton for Moussa Sissoko is like a couple of blokes with beer goggles with only one bird left in the club_


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## garyinderry (Aug 31, 2016)

Dodged a bullet.   30 million quid.  


Bit of a grim deadline day when this is the big news. :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 31, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Sissoko for Â£30m :rofl: that trumps Â£35m for Andy Carroll :ears:
		
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Unlucky Stu :rofl: :rofl:
Happy days are here again ðŸ˜ƒ


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 31, 2016)

To Newcastle fans, or watchers.

25m for Wijnaldum, or 30m for Sissoko.

If you were another prem club, who would have the better deal?

I can handle the truth!!!!!


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 31, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			To Newcastle fans, or watchers.

25m for Wijnaldum, or 30m for Sissoko.

If you were another prem club, who would have the better deal?

I can handle the truth!!!!!

Click to expand...

That's a bit like asking if you'd rather have cancer of the left testicle or the right testicle.


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 31, 2016)

Muppet from EFL on Sky Sports proudly saying how he predicted that the last 3 hours of the window would be the busiest.  Would that be before or after you predicted that the sun would rise in the morning?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 31, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			To Newcastle fans, or watchers.

25m for Wijnaldum, or 30m for Sissoko.

If you were another prem club, who would have the better deal?

I can handle the truth!!!!!

Click to expand...

I'm over the moon the Sissoko deal has fell through, wouldn't want either of them, both produced the odd 15 minutes in the odd game, just no consistencey.

You've probably got the best deal as tbh I can't see Sissoko improving Spurs and he will have the media attention. Klopp will probably have tight reins on Wijnauldum and get the best out of him.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 31, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I'm over the moon the Sissoko deal has fell through, wouldn't want either of them, both produced the odd 15 minutes in the odd game, just no consistencey.

You've probably got the best deal as tbh I can't see Sissoko improving Spurs and he will have the media attention. Klopp will probably have tight reins on Wijnauldum and get the best out of him.
		
Click to expand...

You dont count on this question. :whoo:


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 31, 2016)

Will the last player at Anfield, please turn the lights off.....


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 31, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			You dont count on this question. :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

The Geordies reckon he'll fail the medical as he has no heart :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 31, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Will the last player at Anfield, please turn the lights off.....

Click to expand...

Mingolet to stay as No 1 then :rofl:
Where's your Left Back?&#128515;


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## sawtooth (Aug 31, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I'm over the moon the Sissoko deal has fell through, wouldn't want either of them, both produced the odd 15 minutes in the odd game, just no consistencey.

You've probably got the best deal as tbh I can't see Sissoko improving Spurs and he will have the media attention. Klopp will probably have tight reins on Wijnauldum and get the best out of him.
		
Click to expand...

With respect , only Spurs and Everton going for Sissoko tells you something about the player.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 31, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			With respect , only Spurs and Everton going for Sissoko tells you something about the player.
		
Click to expand...

Steady tiger I seem to remember you's were in for Perez with us, so both you and Spurs were our competition for players.


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## sawtooth (Aug 31, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Steady tiger I seem to remember you's were in for Perez with us, so both you and Spurs were our competition for players.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly. That's why I am concerned about Perez.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 31, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Mingolet to stay as No 1 then :rofl:
Where's your Left Back?&#62979;
		
Click to expand...

Well Karius has 2 hands, so that gives him an advantage over Mignolet.

No left back - very poor.

I dont believe in expensive signings being the be all and end all, but I think Klopp would give Arsene a run for his money in the frugality stakes.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 31, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			With respect , only Spurs and Everton going for Sissoko tells you something about the player.
		
Click to expand...

Miaaaaoooowwwwww!!!!!


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## GG26 (Aug 31, 2016)

Good window for Leicester, only lost Kante and let Inler go, but picked up Slimani, Musa, Mendy, Kapustka, Hernandez, & Zieler.  Strengthens the squad nicely ahead of the Champions League adventure.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 31, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Steady tiger I seem to remember you's were in for Perez with us, so both you and Spurs were our competition for players.
		
Click to expand...

Didnt you also only play that Mustafi a few times and give him away for free, now worth Â£35m to Arsenal.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 1, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Didnt you also only play that Mustafi a few times and give him away for free, now worth Â£35m to Arsenal.
		
Click to expand...

15 minutes came on for Tony Hibbert:rofl: in a European game.
No PL gamesðŸ˜ƒ


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## Kellfire (Sep 1, 2016)

I think Sissoko will do quite well for Spurs. Better players around him will bring it out...


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## user2010 (Sep 1, 2016)

Sissoko must`ve been bricking it until Spurs came in for him at the death.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 1, 2016)

My word, I went to bed with a heavy heart last night. What a relief to find out Sissoko went to Tottenham. Dodged a bullet there. We are still a keeper and striker short but at least we have not wasted Â£30m on a waste of space with no heart.

In answer to LB, I would take Wijnaldum over Sissoko but not at the price you paid and frankly I wouldn't take either in reality. Newcastle have played a blinder in getting the fees they managed for both of them.

Maybe both will be better in decent teams but they will have to improve a LOT. Both disappear far too easily.


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## Piece (Sep 1, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			My word, I went to bed with a heavy heart last night. What a relief to find out Sissoko went to Tottenham. Dodged a bullet there. We are still a keeper and striker short but at least we have not wasted Â£30m on a waste of space with no heart.

In answer to LB, I would take Wijnaldum over Sissoko but not at the price you paid and frankly I wouldn't take either in reality. Newcastle have played a blinder in getting the fees they managed for both of them.

Maybe both will be better in decent teams but they will have to improve a LOT. Both disappear far too easily.
		
Click to expand...

It is great that Sissoko was Â£30m. It means my own value has rocketed to Â£25m


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## Dan2501 (Sep 1, 2016)

Leicester have some serious attacking threat now. Mahrez, Vardy, Musa, Slimani. Expecting some nice football from them this season.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 1, 2016)

Piece said:



			It is great that Sissoko was Â£30m. It means my own value has rocketed to Â£25m 

Click to expand...


Great quote, love it. True as well. It makes the Deeney offer look reasonable now.


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## One Planer (Sep 1, 2016)

Of I'm honest I'm very happy with the business Stoke have done. 

Should see us well after we've been relegated :angry:


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 1, 2016)

Come on now, Stoke have had a good window. Bony in particular is a good signing for you. Imagine how depressed you'd be if you were a Baggy. Now that is a team determined to do a Villa.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 1, 2016)

reports sturridge wanted a loan move to Arsenal??


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## fundy (Sep 1, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			reports sturridge wanted a loan move to Arsenal??
		
Click to expand...

clearly heard there was space in the physios room after Wilsheres departure


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 1, 2016)

Are you two doing a double act? One sets it up, the other throws in the punch line :rofl:Maybe the tables at Arsenal are more comfy to lie on?


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## Piece (Sep 1, 2016)

I'm not fluent who is in our squad now and where they will play. By the looks of the start we've had, nor does the manager.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 1, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			reports sturridge wanted a loan move to Arsenal??
		
Click to expand...

I believe that Wilshere told him that they have a better class of bandage.

Oops, miles behind....:thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 1, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			reports sturridge wanted a loan move to Arsenal??
		
Click to expand...

Apparently his agents approached Arsenal, he didn't ask LPool to be released.
Sakho refused to go on loan at Klopps request also being reported.
The good ship Anfield might be heading for stormy waters&#128515;


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 1, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Apparently his agents approached Arsenal, he didn't ask LPool to be released.
Sakho refused to go on loan at Klopps request also being reported.
The good ship Anfield might be heading for stormy waters&#62979;
		
Click to expand...

Ah, the old Evertonian taxi driver rumours......we'll be ok mate.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 1, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ah, the old Evertonian taxi driver rumours......we'll be ok mate.
		
Click to expand...

Tbf both stories are being run my mainstream media and not just the taxi drivers.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 1, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Tbf both stories are being run my mainstream media and not just the taxi drivers.
		
Click to expand...

I know, but the journalists listen in on delta taxis waveband for any tittle-tattle.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 1, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Tbf both stories are being run my mainstream media and not just the taxi drivers.
		
Click to expand...

It's called deflection, deny everything, face up to nothing, blame the players at a later date&#128515;(cough.....Carroll, Alonso, Sterling, Mingolet)


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 2, 2016)

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/...rangers-fans-react-aberdeens-apparent-8750049

Aberdeen being a bit controversial with their upcoming game v Rangers. funny though:lol:

[look bottom right on the web page]


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## Hobbit (Sep 2, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			reports sturridge wanted a loan move to Arsenal??
		
Click to expand...

Arsenal do free BUPA...


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 2, 2016)

Doesn't matter what "they" wanted or is reported, the window has closed so everyone has to knuckle down no matter or where they are.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 2, 2016)

Aquero gets 3 Match Ban, rightly so.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 2, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Aquero gets 3 Match Ban, rightly so.
		
Click to expand...

I think it's harsh, he had no previous so should have had a suspended sentence, anybody else should receive the same unless he plays for Chelsea, Yernited or Everton


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 2, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Aquero gets 3 Match Ban, rightly so.
		
Click to expand...

Nash he should of been given the extra match ban for a frivlous appeal.....


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 2, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I think it's harsh, he had no previous so should have had a suspended sentence, anybody else should receive the same unless he plays for Chelsea, Yernited or Everton 

Click to expand...

He's a saint?...


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## Stuart_C (Sep 2, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			He's a saint?...
	View attachment 20669

Click to expand...

It's against Luiz by the looks of it, he probably made a meal of it so it doesn't count


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## Papas1982 (Sep 2, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Nash he should of been given the extra match ban for a frivlous appeal.....
		
Click to expand...

That hasn't existed for a few years now as all appeals are fast tracked so no games can be played prior to a suspension.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 2, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Nash he should of been given the extra match ban for a frivlous appeal.....
		
Click to expand...

Why, did he wear a hula skirt or something?


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 2, 2016)

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...k-lampards-300th-goal-after-calculation-error

Maybe they took off all the deflected ones, so he's still on 187.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 2, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



http://www.skysports.com/football/n...k-lampards-300th-goal-after-calculation-error

Maybe they took off all the deflected ones, so he's still on 187.

Click to expand...

&#128514; You're on form tonight Sinbad &#128077;&#127995;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 8, 2016)

Nice views from the improvements at Anfield


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Nice views from the improvements at Anfield

View attachment 20714

View attachment 20715

Click to expand...

They must've took the design from woodison 

Oh an they're the Â£9 tickets, they should be paying punters to sit there.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 8, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			They must've took the design from woodison 

Oh an they're the Â£9 tickets, they should be paying punters to sit there.
		
Click to expand...

Disgrace that mate in this day and age, nowhere near as bad as that in The School of Science ðŸ˜ƒ


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Disgrace that mate in this day and age, nowhere near as bad as that in The School of Science &#128515;
		
Click to expand...

How would you know, you've never been to woodison :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 8, 2016)

I was probably going to both grounds before you were born :whoo:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I was probably going to both grounds before you were born :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

You must feel really old typing that :rofl:


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 8, 2016)

Is that seriously from the new stand? Surely not.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Is that seriously from the new stand? Surely not.
		
Click to expand...

Yes.

We've pished up Â£150m for 5000 corporate seats and 900  even more restricted views than we had in the old main stand.

I've questioned the owners motivation in the last few years  and this just confirms my thoughts.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 8, 2016)

The one with the pole above apparently was put there for a laugh there isn't actually a seat there and the big red posts are temporary until the second part of the expansion is down there is about 800 restricted views until phase two is complete


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 8, 2016)

Blimey I can't believe that. I'd expect clear views in a modern stadium. Why would they design in restricted views?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 8, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes.

We've pished up Â£150m for 5000 corporate seats and 900  even more restricted views than we had in the old main stand.

I've questioned the owners motivation in the last few years  and this just confirms my thoughts.
		
Click to expand...

The owners motivation is to increase match day revenue and that include corperate just like all the other big clubs that earn a lot more per match than we do 

I expect you like the cheap tickets to locals that they have brought in 

For decades we have needed to expand the stadium - we went through previous owners and the spade in the ground business and now we finally get them extending the stadium and looking to further increase it the motivations are questioned - what exactly is it confirming by spending Â£150 mil to expand the stadium ? Is that not what every wants ?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The one with the pole above apparently was put there for a laugh there isn't actually a seat there and the big red posts are temporary until the second part of the expansion is down there is about 800 restricted views until phase two is complete
		
Click to expand...

What about not being able to see the corner flag, underneath the scoreboard  Kop end from the corner of the new stand?

Don't forget part of the Kop roof has been cut back for this stand.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 8, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			What about not being able to see the corner flag, underneath the scoreboard  Kop end from the corner of the new stand?

Don't forget part of the Kop roof has been cut back for this stand.
		
Click to expand...

Here is a picture of the new stand 




On the right is the post that Paul put which actually doesn't block many 

On the left you can see the roof restricting some views and it was always going to be that way until phase two was complete because of the way it was being built up 

It was either spend Â£350 mil plus and do all four stands at once and have to play away from anfield for a year or do it in stages


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The owners motivation is to increase match day revenue and that include corperate just like all the other big clubs that earn a lot more per match than we do 

I expect you like the cheap tickets to locals that they have brought in 

For decades we have needed to expand the stadium - we went through previous owners and the spade in the ground business and now we finally get them extending the stadium and looking to further increase it the motivations are questioned - what exactly is it confirming by spending Â£150 mil to expand the stadium ? Is that not what every wants ?
		
Click to expand...

We need. To start acting like a big club in the transfer market.

Those measley 500 tickets available to local fans are the same price as what Tarquin from Tunbridge wells would pay. Let's be honest, a local football team keeping 1% of tickets for local fans is pathetic.

That Â£150m will be paid back by the club, the owners will want their investment money plus a return. 

They'll be long gone before the 2nd phase is even started. Meanwhile spurs are building  a new stadium.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Here is a picture of the new stand 

View attachment 20716


On the right is the post that Paul put which actually doesn't block many 

On the left you can see the roof restricting some views and it was always going to be that way until phase two was complete because of the way it was being built up 

It was either spend Â£350 mil plus and do all four stands at once and have to play away from anfield for a year or do it in stages
		
Click to expand...


They could've built a new stadium in the park in two seasons,  everything was in place ready for it to be built. Don't forget, the purchase of the club included a new stadium which was non negotiable.

Top left hand corner of that stand you cannot see from past the 18yard box to the corner flag. That is a restricted view and it won't matter until the Kop gets knocked down which won't happen.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 8, 2016)

When is phase 2 due to happen? What will it do?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 8, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			We need. To start acting like a big club in the transfer market.

Those measley 500 tickets available to local fans are the same price as what Tarquin from Tunbridge wells would pay. Let's be honest, a local football team keeping 1% of tickets for local fans is pathetic.

That Â£150m will be paid back by the club, the owners will want their investment money plus a return. 

They'll be long gone before the 2nd phase is even started. Meanwhile spurs are building  a new stadium.
		
Click to expand...

What does "act like a big club mean in the transfer market" ? 

The owners backed the manager - that's all that can ever be asked. Klopp got in players he wanted  he refused to be held to ransom and over pay for players , he has gone on record to say that and he got rid of a lot of expensive dross

And as for the tickets 

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/ann...e-ticket-initiatives-for-young-and-local-fans

I don't think it matters what they try their motives will always be questioned and suspicion will always be there - unfairly as well 

Lots of rumours of the Chinese over big money so if they wanted to make a profit and run they would have gone - but they haven't Stu and are still there looking to get investment in and sell minority stakes to help with future development


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 8, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The one with the pole above apparently was put there for a laugh there isn't actually a seat there and the big red posts are temporary until the second part of the expansion is down there is about 800 restricted views until phase two is complete
		
Click to expand...

No restrictions from our armchairs tho hey Phil &#128077;&#127995;&#128514;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 8, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The one with the pole above apparently was put there for a laugh there isn't actually a seat there and the big red posts are temporary until the second part of the expansion is down there is about 800 restricted views until phase two is complete
		
Click to expand...

So the club are quite happily take money for restricted views, wouldn't it of been better if they'd of took out the 800 seats until phase 2.
To put a seat there it would've needed the fittings surely?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 8, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			They could've built a new stadium in the park in two seasons,  everything was in place ready for it to be built. Don't forget, the purchase of the club included a new stadium which was non negotiable.
		
Click to expand...

And people didn't want to leave Anfield and instead build it up which is what they are doing. Included in the sale was to get a bigger stadium via either increasing the size off Anfield or build a new stadium. 

Like I said they will never win


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 8, 2016)

Ding ding ding ding :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What does "act like a big club mean in the transfer market" ? 

The owners backed the manager - that's all that can ever be asked. Klopp got in players he wanted  he refused to be held to ransom and over pay for players , he has gone on record to say that and he got rid of a lot of expensive dross

And as for the tickets 

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/ann...e-ticket-initiatives-for-young-and-local-fans

I don't think it matters what they try their motives will always be questioned and suspicion will always be there - unfairly as well 

Lots of rumours of the Chinese over big money so if they wanted to make a profit and run they would have gone - but they haven't Stu and are still there looking to get investment in and sell minority stakes to help with future development
		
Click to expand...


Hooray, they've kept 500 Â£9 restricted view tickets back local fans, how very thoughtful Phil.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 8, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Hooray, they've kept 500 Â£9 restricted view tickets back local fans, how very thoughtful Phil.
		
Click to expand...

I can't see in that article where they have said that its 500 Â£9 restricted view tickets Stu 

*Make around 10,000 tickets priced at Â£9 available across the season to local supporters for every home Premier League game.
â€¢    Introduce a 17-21 young adult concession for home Premier League games.
â€¢    Give local people priority access to tickets.
â€¢    Give local schools 1,000 free tickets to Premier League games across the season.

Further details released today include:

Locals' ticket sales

The club's Â£9 ticket initiative is open to all supporters with an L postcode. Tickets will go on sale online around four weeks before a Premier League game, with each fan able to purchase one ticket per person. These Â£9 tickets will also be available to supporters with an L postcode for cup matches.

*


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And people didn't want to leave Anfield and instead build it up which is what they are doing. Included in the sale was to get a bigger stadium via either increasing the size off Anfield or build a new stadium. 

Like I said they will never win
		
Click to expand...

No it wasn't Phil, have a look on google there's a clip of Martin broughton categorically stating a new stadium is part of the purchase deal. 

I didnt want to leave but that stand is a monstrosity. It's looks out of place with the other 3 sides and even if they done anfield road it'd still look odd. They can't do much with the kemlyn.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I can't see in that article where they have said that its 500 Â£9 restricted view tickets Stu 

*Make around 10,000 tickets priced at Â£9 available across the season to local supporters for every home Premier League game.
â€¢    Introduce a 17-21 young adult concession for home Premier League games.
â€¢    Give local people priority access to tickets.
â€¢    Give local schools 1,000 free tickets to Premier League games across the season.

Further details released today include:

Locals' ticket sales

The club's Â£9 ticket initiative is open to all supporters with an L postcode. Tickets will go on sale online around four weeks before a Premier League game, with each fan able to purchase one ticket per person. These Â£9 tickets will also be available to supporters with an L postcode for cup matches.

*

Click to expand...

Do the maths Phil, it really is simple.  10000 divided by 19 league games = 523 tickets per game. There's 800 restricted views, do you honestly believe a local fan could get a ticket for the middle of the kemlyn for Â£9?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			When is phase 2 due to happen? What will it do?
		
Click to expand...

Supposedly the Road end, I'll show my arse in woolies window if that happens.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 8, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Nice views from the improvements at Anfield

View attachment 20714

View attachment 20715

Click to expand...


:rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 8, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Do the maths Phil, it really is simple.  10000 divided by 19 league games = 523 tickets per game. There's 800 restricted views, do you honestly believe a local fan could get a ticket for the middle of the kemlyn for Â£9?
		
Click to expand...

So it's nothing but a suspicion then Stu as opposed to the actual fact ? 

It seems that no matter what they do they will never win and people will always look for angle to critisize them 

They have took us out of financial trouble , they have given three managers a great deal of money to spend on players , they have increased the capacity of the stadium to help increase the matchplay revenue to bring in further funds , they have replaced a manager that wasn't wanted with one of the best managers in the game , introduced schemes to allow more local people and kids to get into watch the games but they will never win no matter what they do

I'm not sure what sort of owners people actually want but I have a feeling it's not the sort that are in football anymore


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 8, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Supposedly the Road end, I'll show my arse in woolies window if that happens.
		
Click to expand...

Woolies? And there was you mentioning old........


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 8, 2016)

Good job Woolies have closed &#128514;


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 8, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Supposedly the Road end, I'll show my arse in woolies window if that happens.
		
Click to expand...

There are some images I wish I could wipe from my mind!!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 8, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Woolies? And there was you mentioning old........ 

Click to expand...

Would've needed a mega store to fit his ar5e :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So it's nothing but a suspicion then Stu as opposed to the actual fact ? 

It seems that no matter what they do they will never win and people will always look for angle to critisize them 

They have took us out of financial trouble , they have given three managers a great deal of money to spend on players , they have increased the capacity of the stadium to help increase the matchplay revenue to bring in further funds , they have replaced a manager that wasn't wanted with one of the best managers in the game , *introduced schemes to allow more local people and kids to get into watch the games but they will never win no matter what they do*

I'm not sure what sort of owners people actually want but I have a feeling it's not the sort that are in football anymore
		
Click to expand...

You make it sound like the fsg top brass sat around a table and decided to save 500 tickets per game for locals. That came about from the LOCAL fan groups. They've done it to keep the fans sweet. They're in it for the money and that's it. 

6 years on and every year we've sold our best players. Minus nett spend this summer when it's obvious we need proper proven quality additions to the squad.

Re the Â£9 tickets, where do you honestly think those tickets will be? Have a guess Phil.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 8, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Re the Â£9 tickets, where do you honestly think those tickets will be? Have a guess.
		
Click to expand...

Bullens Road :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 8, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			You make it sound like the fsg top brass sat around a table and decided to save 500 tickets per game for locals. That came about from the LOCAL fan groups. They've done it to keep the fans sweet. They're in it for the money and that's it. 

6 years on and every year we've sold our best players. Minus nett spend this summer when it's obvious we need proper proven quality additions to the squad.
		
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Isnt everyone in football in it for money now ? But if they just want money why don't they sell for the Â£700 mil plus to the Chinese ? That's a massive profit for them

As I said they have done something good and yet you will turn it around to be a negative towards them ? 

Klopp got who he wanted during this window  - which "best player" did we sell this summer ? We could have spent over the odds on numerous players but one person stopped that - the manager , no one else , all transfers were his call - he got in who he wanted and got rid of the players he didn't need. The transfer window should be judged on what actually happens on the pitch as opposed to the bank balance.

As for where the Â£9 tickets will be - I don't know yet so I'm not going to make assumptions based on nothing to use to bash the owners with.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Bullens Road :rofl:
		
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They give them away at the Pitt.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Isnt everyone in football in it for money now ? 




			That's alright then I suppose.
		
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But  if they just want money why don't they sell for the Â£700 mil plus to the Chinese ? That's a massive profit for them




			Maybe they're waiting and They'll sell for more in near future 




			As I said they have done something good and yet you will turn it around to be a negative towards them ? 




			They've increased the stadium by 2100 standard ticket seats,  5000 corporate that there struggling to shift and 900 abysmal restricted views, which if the Anny road gets done it'll reduce them to 500 restricted views
		
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Klopp got who he wanted during this window  - which "best player" did we sell this summer ? 




			Balotelli :rofl: none in fairness because we've only got 1 left in Coutinho and he'll be next
		
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 We could have spent over the odds on numerous players but one person stopped that - the manager , no one else , all transfers were his call - he got in who he wanted and got rid of the players he didn't need. The transfer window should be judged on what actually happens on the pitch as opposed to the bank balance.
		
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 That's fair do's and like I've said previously,if the manager gets who he wants then I'm happy.

You can tell I've only just found the quote button :rofl::rofl:

Re the Â£9 tickets I'll call the ticket office tomorrow and find out exactly, rows, blocks etc. I've also got a mate  who works there I'll try him too.
		
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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 8, 2016)

Stuart_C said:





Liverpoolphil said:



			Isnt everyone in football in it for money now ? But  if they just want money why don't they sell for the Â£700 mil plus to the Chinese ? That's a massive profit for them




			Maybe they're waiting and They'll sell for more in near future  That's fair do's and like I've said previously,if the manager gets who he wants then I'm happy.
		
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The recent talk was of bid going up to Â£1bil for the club because the Chinese are that desperate for a big club to put them seriously on map - and that would be turned down. They don't want to sell - they want to build the club up and are happy to sell of minority stakes in the club which will bring in big funds 

Only have to look at Klopps history in the market - he will only spend big on someone he really wants - Mane in this window but wouldn't spend Â£25- Â£30 mil on Hector or DeScilgia because he doesn't think that's right ( also why we didn't get Teixeira ) - and he is targeting younger players.
		
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## NWJocko (Sep 8, 2016)

Bit off topic Phil but what do you think about Klopp not buying a left back in the window?

Putting restricted view seats in just sets clubs up for criticism, they should just leave the seats out, in the grand scheme of things the income is pennies for the club over a season, never understand why they do it.

Is/was there big opposition to moving away from Anfield to a new ground?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 8, 2016)

NWJocko said:



			Bit off topic Phil but what do you think about Klopp not buying a left back in the window?

Putting restricted view seats in just sets clubs up for criticism, they should just leave the seats out, in the grand scheme of things the income is pennies for the club over a season, never understand why they do it.

Is/was there big opposition to moving away from Anfield to a new ground?
		
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I think not getting a left back isn't the end of the world - it would have been nice to have got a stronger LB don't get me wrong but it's not a big worry for me.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:





Stuart_C said:





Liverpoolphil said:



			Isnt everyone in football in it for money now ? But  if they just want money why don't they sell for the Â£700 mil plus to the Chinese ? That's a massive profit for them

The recent talk was of bid going up to Â£1bil for the club because the Chinese are that desperate for a big club to put them seriously on map - and that would be turned down. They don't want to sell - they want to build the club up and are happy to sell of minority stakes in the club which will bring in big funds 

Only have to look at Klopps history in the market - he will only spend big on someone he really wants - Mane in this window but wouldn't spend Â£25- Â£30 mil on Hector or DeScilgia because he doesn't think that's right ( also why we didn't get Teixeira ) - and he is targeting younger players.
		
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I've just text a mate and he got 3 x Â£9 tickets, row 70 block u severely restricted view.
		
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## NWJocko (Sep 8, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think not getting a left back isn't the end of the world - it would have been nice to have got a stronger LB don't get me wrong but it's not a big worry for me.
		
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Fair enough, I'd be worried relying on Moreno (especially) or Milner at LB if I was hoping for anything serious this season but could be wrong.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 8, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Supposedly the Road end, I'll show my arse in woolies window if that happens.
		
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pbrown7582 said:



			Woolies? And there was you mentioning old........ 

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Lord Tyrion said:



			Good job Woolies have closed &#62978;
		
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Just for information, I've been working out in Germany this year and the Woolworth's name lives on over there so there is still opportunity for Stu C to honour his promise if it happens. This one is on Borkum an island off north east Germany and I will be happy to provide travel details for Stu to get there if necessary.......


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 8, 2016)

Stuart_C said:





Liverpoolphil said:





Stuart_C said:



			I've just text a mate and he got 3 x Â£9 tickets, row 70 block u severely restricted view.
		
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Says in here that some with be the restricted views for Cat C matches 

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2016/0...and-to-have-around-400-restricted-view-seats/

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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 8, 2016)

Every team playing Liverpool this year will focus on Moreno. He is clearly the weak link defensively. Watch everyone attack down their right.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 8, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Just for information, I've been working out in Germany this year and the Woolworth's name lives on over there so there is still opportunity for Stu C to honour his promise if it happens. This one is on Borkum an island off north east Germany and I will be happy to provide travel details for Stu to get there if necessary.......

View attachment 20717

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Can I have the restricted view seats please &#128552;


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

NWJocko said:



			Bit off topic Phil but what do you think about Klopp not buying a left back in the window?

Putting restricted view seats in just sets clubs up for criticism, they should just leave the seats out, in the grand scheme of things the income is pennies for the club over a season, never understand why they do it.

Is/was there big opposition to moving away from Anfield to a new ground?
		
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From my memory there wasn't much opposition to moving away, certainly not like Everton's KEIOC. I think the general consensus was we'd be getting a new stadium, 20yards away from were we are now and hopefully we'd kick on, on the pitch.

I didn't want to leave because of the great memories and that.

Hopefully he's waiting for Cresswell to return to fitness


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 8, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can I have the restricted view seats please ï˜¨
		
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Certainly sir, that will be Â£9 each. How many would you like?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Just for information, I've been working out in Germany this year and the Woolworth's name lives on over there so there is still opportunity for Stu C to honour his promise if it happens. This one is on Borkum an island off north east Germany and I will be happy to provide travel details for Stu to get there if necessary.......

View attachment 20717

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Sound, do they still sell pick and mix and miniature cans of Coca Cola?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Certainly sir, that will be Â£9 each. How many would you like?
		
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No sorry, you need to pay Â£30 to be a member to purchase a ticket.


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## NWJocko (Sep 8, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			From my memory there wasn't much opposition to moving away, certainly not like Everton's KEIOC. I think the general consensus was we'd be getting a new stadium, 20yards away from were we are now and hopefully we'd kick on, on the pitch.

I didn't want to leave because of the great memories and that.

Hopefully he's waiting for Cresswell to return to fitness 

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Always tougher for a club that's had as much success to leave than the likes of City (back then) I guess.

Spurs seem to be doing a good job with theirs and right next door to the old ground so maybe not so much of a wrench to "move".

So is that off the table completely now and redeveloping Anfield will be the end of it?  

Moreno is a shocker, I was amazed you didn't buy another LB, especially after letting the young lad Smith moved, hadn't seen loads of him but looked good in the FA cup games on the box


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Says in here that some with be the restricted views for Cat C matches 

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2016/0...and-to-have-around-400-restricted-view-seats/

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It's every game for those 523 Â£9 tickets. 

Look at that 3rd picture,that's embarrassing but hey ho those nice men at FSGhave given us a nice new stand .


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

NWJocko said:



			Always tougher for a club that's had as much success to leave than the likes of City (back then) I guess.

Spurs seem to be doing a good job with theirs and right next door to the old ground so maybe not so much of a wrench to "move".

So is that off the table completely now and redeveloping Anfield will be the end of it?  

Moreno is a shocker, I was amazed you didn't buy another LB, especially after letting the young lad Smith moved, hadn't seen loads of him but looked good in the FA cup games on the box
		
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Yes mate, phase 1 completed, the anfield road end is supposed to be next but the increase will only be an extra 4000 seats. Not a lot really if you take into account corporate tickets.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

Phil, here's the layout that shows you where the Â£9 tickets are. Fact and not opinion just to beat the owners with.

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/tickets/match-day-premier-league-prices-2016-17


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 8, 2016)

Phil you know how you can't get to watch Liverpool anymore because you've been "priced out" .
Why not grab yourself a Â£9 ticket. 
Bargain ðŸ‘ðŸ»


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## Papas1982 (Sep 8, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Phil, here's the layout that shows you where the Â£9 tickets are. Fact and not opinion just to beat the owners with.

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/tickets/match-day-premier-league-prices-2016-17

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Are they offering the seats on offer for a set amount of years?

will they suddenly withdraw the offer once restricted views no longer exist or actually take a hit on saleable seats?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Are they offering the seats on offer for a set amount of years?

will they suddenly withdraw the offer once restricted views no longer exist or actually take a hit on saleable seats?
		
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The restricted views down the Kop will stay as restricted and severely restricted because that is what they are. 

If they carry out the phase 2 Of The road end  then some of those restricted views might  get changed bit looking at the plans/layout I can't see it.  The cost to carry out phase 2 for an extra Â£7.5m in ticket revenue per season wouldnt be worthwile imo and it's take a longer period to repay the costs to build.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Phil you know how you can't get to watch Liverpool anymore because you've been "priced out" .
Why not grab yourself a Â£9 ticket. 
Bargain ðŸ‘ðŸ»
		
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He can't they're only on sale to people with L postcode.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 8, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Blimey I can't believe that. I'd expect clear views in a modern stadium. Why would they design in restricted views?
		
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To keep the roof up?

As Phil said that bad one will probably be sorted when the Anny road end is done, although will be a few years off yet.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 8, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Supposedly the Road end, I'll show my arse in all of woolies windows if that happens.
		
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## Liverbirdie (Sep 8, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So it's nothing but a suspicion then Stu as opposed to the actual fact ? 

It seems that no matter what they do they will never win and people will always look for angle to critisize them 

They have took us out of financial trouble , they have given three managers a great deal of money to spend on players , they have increased the capacity of the stadium to help increase the matchplay revenue to bring in further funds , they have replaced a manager that wasn't wanted with one of the best managers in the game , introduced schemes to allow more local people and kids to get into watch the games but they will never win no matter what they do

I'm not sure what sort of owners people actually want but I have a feeling it's not the sort that are in football anymore
		
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I'm somewhere in the middle, Phil.

I think they are showing a lack of ambition, and although they have started to extend the stadium (very important to me), I still feel that they are still stuck in this moneyball/transfer committee/buy low and young SELL high rut.

They were putting prices up last season, before the walkout, OK, its good that they have listened and acted accordingly, but they are still doing very well out of our club.

I'm thankful for what they have done, but sceptical as to what will happen in the coming years, anny road extension aside.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 8, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Just for information, I've been working out in Germany this year and the Woolworth's name lives on over there so there is still opportunity for Stu C to honour his promise if it happens. This one is on Borkum an island off north east Germany and I will be happy to provide travel details for Stu to get there if necessary.......

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Can I buy a severely restricted view ticket when he does it, please.    (still catching up, Tyrion)

#Dotheystockdan'smindbleach?


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## davemc1 (Sep 8, 2016)

Struggling to see your perspective on this Stu? 

You didn't want them to move, they havnt. 
Anfield is too small, they've made it bigger, with plans to go bigger again. 
They messed up on ticket prices, but have since backed down, froze prices and introduced the 'locals' scheme which is unheard of. 
You seem to have beef with so many corporates, yet want them to have big transfer ambitions?? 
Everyone knows about them bad seats, yet they'll sell out every game. 
They are business men, if there idea is to fatten up the chicken, then that's business

&#128540; &#128077;


Seems im a little way behind on the thread, sos


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 8, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'm somewhere in the middle, Phil.

I think they are showing a lack of ambition, and although they have started to extend the stadium (very important to me), I still feel that they are still stuck in this moneyball/transfer committee/buy low and young SELL high rut.

They were putting prices up last season, before the walkout, OK, its good that they have listened and acted accordingly, but they are still doing very well out of our club.

I'm thankful for what they have done, but sceptical as to what will happen in the coming years, anny road extension aside.
		
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All signings went through Klopp this summer - no committee , never been moneyball anyway really ( buy cheap based on stats ) - Ayre not involved. Transfers down to the manager and it's the type of transfers he did at Dortmund ( didn't spend big there - got quality at great prices )


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 8, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Just for information, I've been working out in Germany this year and the Woolworth's name lives on over there so there is still opportunity for Stu C to honour his promise if it happens. This one is on Borkum an island off north east Germany and I will be happy to provide travel details for Stu to get there if necessary.......

View attachment 20717

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Location logged :thup:


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 8, 2016)

NWJocko said:



			Always tougher for a club that's had as much success to leave than the likes of City (back then) I guess.

Spurs seem to be doing a good job with theirs and right next door to the old ground so maybe not so much of a wrench to "move".

So is that off the table completely now and redeveloping Anfield will be the end of it?  

Moreno is a shocker, I was amazed you didn't buy another LB, especially after letting the young lad Smith moved, hadn't seen loads of him but looked good in the FA cup games on the box
		
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I think the majority realised that to kick on we needed the ground vastly extended, or a new ground.

I was happy to move, but happier that we've stayed. TBH when the old standing Kop was knocked down, it was never going to be the same. Believe me mate, standing on the old kop was not only an education, but a pleasure, and so many happy memories.

If/when the anny road is done, it will go up to about 58k, and it will fit in aesthetically with the new main stand. The kop looks tiny now, so the ground will look slightly lopsided.

However, I dont mind waiting another 10-15 years, if they extend or put another tier on the kop, and if they did the same with the Kemlyn, would probably take it to 75k, which I think will not only look great, but should fill for weekend league games, as long as the footy bubble doesnt burst.

Spurs extension was well overdue, 30,000 extra paddy k's, will help. 

I think not signing a LB, letting Smith go and Flanagan on loan, was negligent. Ok, if he's saving his money for someone good to maybe come in January, I'll take that, but if we dont get one until next year, we are daft. Moreno looks beyond coaching to me.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 8, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All signings went through Klopp this summer - no committee , never been moneyball anyway really ( buy cheap based on stats ) - Ayre not involved. Transfers down to the manager and it's the type of transfers he did at Dortmund ( didn't spend big there - got quality at great prices )
		
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He had no choice at Dortmund, they were on the verge of going bust and even Bayern Munich gave them a loan, he found some absolute crackers but to compare his situation when he first when to Dortmund and now with you's is chalk and cheese,


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## NWJocko (Sep 8, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Believe me mate, standing on the old kop was not only an education, but a pleasure, and so many happy memories.
		
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Sadly I can only imagine, would have loved to experience that, especially watching King Kenny in his prime :thup:



Liverbirdie said:



			I think not signing a LB, letting Smith go and Flanagan on loan, was negligent. Ok, if he's saving his money for someone good to maybe come in January, I'll take that, but if we dont get one until next year, we are daft. Moreno looks beyond coaching to me.
		
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He may well have someone lined up but a bit of a risk leaving it until January, especially getting rid of other full backs.  Did a signing fall through or something?  Almost as if he expected to sign someone and cleared the decks beforehand but it didn't happen


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 8, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All signings went through Klopp this summer - no committee , never been moneyball anyway really ( buy cheap based on stats ) - Ayre not involved. Transfers down to the manager and it's the type of transfers he did at Dortmund ( didn't spend big there - got quality at great prices )
		
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Yes they did, and I'm also not totally obsessed by the nett spend, as its more about the quality that we get in, and these days there are some good free signings going around.

However, we shouldnt be arguing over 2-3 mill when we want Leicester's Chilwell, or others. Sometimes you've got to just pay the dough, especially when Moreno is the alternative answer.

It worked in Germany Phil, but outside of Bayern Munich, who blow everyone out of the water financially, you can become the second/third/fourth best in Germany without a billionaire. You cant do that in England, generally. Good coaching, astute signings and fan patience can get you further in Germany than what it can here. 

Thank God Ayre's not involved anymore. A great chief exec in getting new sponsors in, rubbish in getting signings over the line.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 8, 2016)

NWJocko said:



			Sadly I can only imagine, would have loved to experience that, especially watching King Kenny in his prime :thup:



He may well have someone lined up but a bit of a risk leaving it until January, especially getting rid of other full backs.  Did a signing fall through or something?  Almost as if he expected to sign someone and cleared the decks beforehand but it didn't happen
		
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Its hard to tell, as sky had us linked with 15 left backs.

We should have offered west ham 20 mill for Cresswell and along with a new goalkeeper, were our 2 main requirements.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 8, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Struggling to see your perspective on this Stu? 

You didn't want them to move, they havnt. 
Anfield is too small, they've made it bigger, with plans to go bigger again. 
They messed up on ticket prices, but have since backed down, froze prices and introduced the 'locals' scheme which is unheard of. 
You seem to have beef with so many corporates, yet want them to have big transfer ambitions?? 
Everyone knows about them bad seats, yet they'll sell out every game. 
They are business men, if there idea is to fatten up the chicken, then that's business

ðŸ˜œ ðŸ‘


Seems im a little way behind on the thread, sos
		
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Haven't you got greens to wreck?:rofl:

I don't buy into them. I don't know what their ambitions are, do you? 

I've never heard so much fuss  over a new stand with 5000 corporate's 900 restricted views up in the gods and 2000 new season ticket holders  Introducing tickets for local people is the least we can do. The Â£9 tickets are being pedalled as a great innitiative, we're a football club in liverpool ffs, just because Tarquin and Campbell from Tunbridge wells have jumped on the band wagon we've alienated our local support. 

Try getting tickets from the ticket office, it's an absolute drama.

Don't forget, when they bought the club the deal included a new stadium, non negotiable. You're right I didn't wanna leave that was my personal preference but I wouldn't have moaned had we moved into a stadium in the park.

They've made it bigger by 3000 General seats, unless of course you've got Â£3200 for a low level hospitality st (coffee and a proey) your laughin.

Another 6000 seats on the road  end will probably cost 80-110million to build and they'll get Â£7.5m back per season on tickets at Â£50 each. It'll take 15 years to pay for itself.

So potentially to add 13000 seats it'd cost Â£230-Â£260m,it was quoted as Â£300m to build a new 65000 seater stadium in the park.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 9, 2016)

Remy now out for upto 2month. 
He must be gutted.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 9, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			So potentially to add 13000 seats it'd cost Â£230-Â£260m,it was quoted as Â£300m to build a new 65000 seater stadium in the park.
		
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I think the're using a plumbers calculator.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 9, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Remy now out for upto 2month. 
He must be gutted.
		
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Not as much as the Palace chairman who is paying his wages.

On to the Manchester derby. One for Tashy and other blues. Will Pep play Iheanacho? I hope so. He looks an exciting player and it works better than putting Sterling or de Bruyne up top.


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## freddielong (Sep 9, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Not as much as the Palace chairman who is paying his wages.

On to the Manchester derby. One for Tashy and other blues. Will Pep play Iheanacho? I hope so. He looks an exciting player and it works better than putting Sterling or de Bruyne up top.
		
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I think the loan has been terminated and he is back at Chelski


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 9, 2016)

freddielong said:



			I think the loan has been terminated and he is back at Chelski
		
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Back at Chelsea for treatment. 
Not sure what would happen with his wages.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 10, 2016)

Citeh have been immense here.


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## USER1999 (Sep 10, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Citeh have been immense here.
		
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Pity Sterling is rubbish,  or they would be more in front.


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## Junior (Sep 10, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Citeh have been immense here.
		
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Bossed it......we're chasing shadows and passing the ball to them.  Nothing more than they deserve.  Bad move playing for the counter and leaving both Martial and Rashford on the bench.  I'd have played Mata too.  Hopefully we can play a bit more in the 2nd half.


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## garyinderry (Sep 10, 2016)

Enjoyed that.   united getting beat and city bought a shaky goalkeeper.    lovely. :rofl:


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## Slime (Sep 10, 2016)

Fabulous finish from Ibrahimovic.
Lingard's having a mare ...................... I'd sub him for Rashford.
I'd also remind the United players that they are playing in red so STOP PASSING TO PLYERS WEARING BLUE!
A very nervy start by United, definitely second best in the first half.
Hopefully the goal will give them a lift and they'll settle down for the second half.
I'm also sure they'll have noticed that City's 'keeper is a bit suspect at best!


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## Junior (Sep 10, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			Enjoyed that.   united getting beat and city bought a shaky goalkeeper.    lovely. :rofl:
		
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Good game.....City bossed it but we could have made it 2-2 (unjustly) at half time.   Bodes well for 2nd half.  Get some pace on up front Jose !!!!!!!


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 10, 2016)

What a half. Great steal and finish and De Bruyne and City bossing it until the keeper made a whopping howler. I bet Hart will be laughing his socks off especially as the keeper nearly gifted Ibrahimovich a second. Rashford coming on will make this even better in the second half to watch.


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## richy (Sep 10, 2016)

Rooney. LOL. 

That is all


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## One Planer (Sep 10, 2016)

richy said:



			Rooney. LOL. 

That is all
		
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Been poor so far.

City's new keeper looks more of a liability than Hart :rofl:


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## Fish (Sep 10, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Been poor so far.

City's new keeper looks more of a liability than Hart :rofl:
		
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He should have got a red or at the very least a yellow, jump tackle and studs showing, if that was an outfield player I think they'd walk for that!


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## richy (Sep 10, 2016)

Fish said:



			He should have got a red or at the very least a yellow, jump tackle and studs showing, if that was an outfield player I think they'd walk for that!
		
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Keeper always seem to get away with more


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## Stuart_C (Sep 10, 2016)

Fish said:



			He should have got a red or at the very least a yellow, jump tackle and studs showing, if that was an outfield player I think they'd walk for that!
		
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Agreed.  That was a pen under current rules, it's decisions like these that Refs aren't consistent with. Clattenburg will give that next week.


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## One Planer (Sep 10, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Agreed.  That was a pen under current rules, it's decisions like these that Refs aren't consistent with. Clattenburg will give that next week.
		
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Bob on.

Battenberg is one of the most inconsistent referees used in the premier league.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 10, 2016)

Fish said:



			He should have got a red or at the very least a yellow, jump tackle and studs showing, if that was an outfield player I think they'd walk for that!
		
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Stuart_C said:



			Agreed.  That was a pen under current rules, it's decisions like these that Refs aren't consistent with. Clattenburg will give that next week.
		
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You're having a laugh.  Wins the ball cleanly with the side of his foot and the studs were never directed at Rooney.

The one thing we probably can agree on is that had a penalty been awarded, Rooney would have shrugged off his life threatening injury to take itâ€¦â€¦â€¦. 

I see Rooney is still gobbling off at referees and not getting booked (and didn't appear to be wearing the captain's armband)


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## Piece (Sep 10, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			You're having a laugh.  Wins the ball cleanly with the side of his foot and the studs were never directed at Rooney.

The one thing we probably can agree on is that had a penalty been awarded, Rooney would have shrugged off his life threatening injury to take itâ€¦â€¦â€¦. 

I see Rooney is still gobbling off at referees and not getting booked (and didn't appear to be wearing the captain's armband) 

Click to expand...

Voice of sense. Bravo's tackle was old school hard and fair. In control with the side foot, no studs showing.

Rooney has looked an old man this game.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 10, 2016)

Piece said:



*Voice of sense. *Bravo's tackle was old school hard and fair. In control with the side foot, no studs showing.

Rooney has looked an old man this game.
		
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Mrs. BiM says there's a first time for everythingâ€¦â€¦â€¦


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## Slime (Sep 10, 2016)

I can't argue with the result ........................... City were the better team although I agree that the 'keeper should have been sent off.
Before the season began I couldn't see past City for the Premier League .
I think Utd and Chelsea will run them close though.
I know United got beaten, but it's a far better United than I've seen for the last couple of years so I'm not too disheartened.
I can't wait for Mourinho's excuses though ..................... or has he mellowed?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 10, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			You're having a laugh.  Wins the ball cleanly with the side of his foot and the studs were never directed at Rooney.

The one thing we probably can agree on is that had a penalty been awarded, Rooney would have shrugged off his life threatening injury to take itâ€¦â€¦â€¦. 

I see Rooney is still gobbling off at referees and not getting booked (and didn't appear to be wearing the captain's armband) 

Click to expand...

From what I can see that sums it up 

How did Rooney get away without being booked for as long as he did - constantly mouthing off , a good number of fouls - should have been booked a good twenty mins before Clattenburg got his card out 

Man City were very impressive in the first half - Silva and De Bryne were outstanding , Ferdandino was all over the place. 

That's a very good win and without Aguero. 

Man Utd throwing a lot of long balls in there up to Elbows and Ibrahimovic - by passed the midfield all day long - can't see them challenging City if that's how they will play.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 10, 2016)

I said it last week and I was mocked on here, that first half performance against West Ham and now Utd was as good as I have seen. Why does this weeks performance have any more merit about it just coz it is Utd. Who scored with a poor decision from a keeper and just lumped a ball into the box alla fat Sam style. no wonder Rooney is capt of his team.
did no see enough from Utd to think they will be pushing for the title, they will struggle v Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea.

THE CITY IS OURS.

Proper blood and guts Derby though.


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## sawtooth (Sep 10, 2016)

Schneiderlin and Martial on the bench again.

 Â£63M well spent there. ;-)


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## One Planer (Sep 10, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Schneiderlin and Martial on the bench again.

 Â£63M well spent there. ;-)
		
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.... At least united are willing to spend the Â£Â£Â£ though eh? :smirk:


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## Fish (Sep 10, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			You're having a laugh.  Wins the ball cleanly with the side of his foot and the studs were never directed at Rooney.

The one thing we probably can agree on is that had a penalty been awarded, Rooney would have shrugged off his life threatening injury to take itâ€¦â€¦â€¦. 

I see Rooney is still gobbling off at referees and not getting booked (and didn't appear to be wearing the captain's armband) 

Click to expand...

I've not watched any replays and only saw it at the time, but for me if looked like the keeper left the ground and it was a jump type tackle, as I said, if an outfield player left the ground and jumped into a tackle he'd have walked as I'm sure your not allowed to do that?!

1 dodgy keeper replaced with another!


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## sawtooth (Sep 10, 2016)

One Planer said:



			.... At least united are willing to waste the Â£Â£Â£ though eh? :smirk:
		
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Fixed that for you.


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## One Planer (Sep 10, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Fixed that for you.
		
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Depends on your point of view I suppose.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 10, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Schneiderlin and Martial on the bench again.

 Â£63M well spent there. ;-)
		
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On the bench for Arsenal

Xhaka - Â£35 mil
Sanchez - Â£32 mil

Â£67 mil well spent there


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## fundy (Sep 10, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Schneiderlin and Martial on the bench again.

 Â£63M well spent there. ;-)
		
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sanchez and xhaka on the bench again Â£60m+ well spent there too


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## fundy (Sep 10, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			On the bench for Arsenal

Xhaka - Â£35 mil
Sanchez - Â£32 mil

Â£67 mil well spent there 

Click to expand...

haha beaten to it 

so arsenal buy elneny and xhaka and still coquelin starts, must be pretty damning what he has on wenger or wengers bought 2 even worse duds


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## fundy (Sep 10, 2016)

arsenal losing to saints again, deja vu. pretty flukey goal mind


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## sawtooth (Sep 10, 2016)

fundy said:



			haha beaten to it 

so arsenal buy elneny and xhaka and still coquelin starts, must be pretty damning what he has on wenger or wengers bought 2 even worse duds
		
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.
It's called strength in depth. 

I don't know what schneiderlin has to do to get a game.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 10, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			.
It's called strength in depth. 

I don't know what schneiderlin has to do to get a game.
		
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A waste of money When others spend it but strength in depth when Arsenal do?

Anyway, I'm off the match enjoy our game from your comfy armchairs.


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## sawtooth (Sep 10, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			A waste of money When others spend it but strength in depth when Arsenal do?

Anyway, I'm off the match enjoy our game from your comfy armchairs.
		
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Not quite mate but can't be asked to argue. Let's wait until the end of the season to see how much game time they all get.


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## fundy (Sep 10, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Not quite mate but can't be asked to argue. Let's wait until the end of the season to see how much game time they all get.
		
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well Elneny wont be getting much in January for Arsenal


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 10, 2016)

Billic for England? &#129300;


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## fundy (Sep 10, 2016)

some turnaround from 2-0 to 2-4 that


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## USER1999 (Sep 10, 2016)

Koscielny looks like a pretty good striker. Well taken goal for a centre back. Cech a bit unlucky. I guess Elneny and Xakha are being saved for Tuesday.  I'd not have started with coquelin, but I guess ghats rotation for you.


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## Piece (Sep 10, 2016)

fundy said:



			some turnaround from 2-0 to 2-4 that
		
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:whoo:


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## Slime (Sep 10, 2016)

Piece said:



			:whoo:
		
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So, where in Godalming do you go to celebrate?


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## Piece (Sep 10, 2016)

Slime said:



			So, where in Godalming do you go to celebrate?
		
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A toss up between Wetherspoons or Sainsburys


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 10, 2016)

Liverpool playing well but Leicester look a mile off where there were last year.


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## sawtooth (Sep 10, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Liverpool playing well but Leicester look a mile off where there were last year.
		
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Leicester lost 1-0 to Liverpool at Anfield last year so you can't read too much into it.

It's not like they are being battered, they might even get something from this game yet.


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## sawtooth (Sep 10, 2016)

I might start a campaign to get commentators banned from commentating on their own teams.

Painful. It shouldn't be allowed


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 10, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Leicester lost 1-0 to Liverpool at Anfield last year so you can't read too much into it.

It's not like they are being battered, they might even get something from this game yet.
		
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Ooops :rofl:


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## sawtooth (Sep 10, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Ooops :rofl:
		
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OK OK there's always the danger of going further behind when pushing to score.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 10, 2016)

Well that was pretty impressive especially going forward , could have been a lot more tonight. Mane , Sturridge and Firmino linked up very well - Mane is very dangerous , Milner was good at LB , lost nothing going forward and kept Mahrez pretty quiet. Sooner Karius comes in the better but Matip is looking solid at the back. Enjoyed that game


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 10, 2016)

Hope you didn't have a restricted view :whoo::whoo::rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 10, 2016)

Jeff Stelling quote of the day "well, West Ham bragged they could fill their new stadium, let me tell you, they can empty it too"

:rofl:


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 10, 2016)

Arguable the most impressive win of the day has to be Spurs away at Stoke. Can't see many going there and getting four goals


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## Tashyboy (Sep 10, 2016)

Out of interest, when will Pogba be making his debut for the rags this year.


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## One Planer (Sep 10, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Arguable the most impressive win of the day has to be Spurs away at Stoke. Can't see many going there and getting four goals
		
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I can.

We're dire at the minute.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 10, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Arguable the most impressive win of the day has to be Spurs away at Stoke. Can't see many going there and getting four goals
		
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I'm giving it to Watford,they even gave West Ham a 2 goal start.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 10, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			I'm giving it to Watford,they even gave West Ham a 2 goal start.
		
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I can't argue with that either


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## SaintHacker (Sep 10, 2016)

Absolutely shafted by dreadful refereeing yet again today. Yes we should have taken our chances earlier and won the game but to be basically cheated out of a point stinks. The standard of officiating is ruining the game. And I don't go with all this 'they have a hard job' business, if you can't see someone tread on someone elses heel 3 foot away then you need to be thinking about getting a different job.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 10, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well that was pretty impressive especially going forward , could have been a lot more tonight. Mane , Sturridge and Firmino linked up very well - Mane is very dangerous , Milner was good at LB , lost nothing going forward and kept Mahrez pretty quiet. Sooner Karius comes in the better but Matip is looking solid at the back. Enjoyed that game
		
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Apart from them getting back to 2-1 with a gift and prior to your 3rd when you's look slightly deflated, 5 or 6 -1 would've been fair, they looked like the Leicester of 2 seasons ago.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 10, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Jeff Stelling quote of the day "well, West Ham bragged they could fill their new stadium, let me tell you, they can empty it too"

:rofl:
		
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I thought it was McManaman when he was saying "You just can't stop LPool scoring this season" .......I guess he missed the Burnley match then :rofl:


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## Fish (Sep 10, 2016)

That's a big stadium to fill when the not so happy hammers find themselves in the Championship, got to say I'm surprised how poor they are.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 10, 2016)

Superb performance toady against the champions,  I thought Lucas was immense, just a shame his mistake was a costly one.

Lallana had another great game and his finish for the 3rd  was boss.  Mane and sturridge linked up well too, just a shame sturridge doesn't do it week in week out.

The new stand looks nice.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 10, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Out of interest, when will Pogba be making his debut for the rags this year.
		
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ðŸ˜‚. If he is Â£90m then what are De Bruyne and Silva worth?


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## Piece (Sep 10, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			I'm giving it to Watford,they even gave West Ham a 2 goal start.
		
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Obviously I would agree....but still the game wasn't good enough to be game of the day on Sky tonight, Sky choosing to show the full 90 mins of Man U v Man C again six hours after showing it live.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 10, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Superb performance toady against the champions,  I thought Lucas was immense, just a shame his mistake was a costly one.

Lallana had another great game and his finish for the 3rd  was boss.  Mane and sturridge linked up well too, just a shame sturridge doesn't do it week in week out.

The new stand looks nice.
		
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Cracking atmosphere as well mate.

Ok its the first game and everyone making a special effort, but if they do the anny road as well, that will be great for the bigger games at Anfield.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 10, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			ï˜‚. If he is Â£90m then what are De Bruyne and Silva worth?
		
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A similar quote was on the Manchester evening news re silva. One of the best midfielders I have Seen play


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 10, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Superb performance toady against the champions,  I thought Lucas was immense, just a shame his mistake was a costly one.

Lallana had another great game and his finish for the 3rd  was boss.  Mane and sturridge linked up well too, just a shame sturridge doesn't do it week in week out.

The new stand looks nice.
		
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The link up and the runs from players were superb 

Lallana is becoming a hell of a creative player in a bit of a free role , Winaljdum looked good as well - some great runs from deep 

If the players can find some consistent form going then got to have a great chance at top 4


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## Stuart_C (Sep 10, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The link up and the runs from players were superb 

Lallana is becoming a hell of a creative player in a bit of a free role , Winaljdum looked good as well - some great runs from deep 

*If the players can find some consistent form going then got to have a great chance at top 4*

Click to expand...

Calm down dear, it was only Leicester 

Lallana has improved every season, he needed to add goals and those performances consistently and Upto now he's done it. 

Matip looked solid again.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 10, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Cracking atmosphere as well mate.

Ok its the first game and everyone making a special effort, but if they do the anny road as well, that will be great for the bigger games at Anfield.
		
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Great. More prawn sandwich brigade for the big games:smirk:

I didn't notice how long it took for the corporate tier to return to their seats today, I'll make sure I take more notice week after next :thup:


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## Slime (Sep 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Jeff Stelling quote of the day "well, West Ham bragged they could fill their new stadium, let me tell you, they can empty it too"

:rofl:
		
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A great quote ...................... Stelling really is a star.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 11, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Great. More prawn sandwich brigade for the big games:smirk:

I didn't notice how long it took for the corporate tier to return to their seats today, I'll make sure I take more notice week after next :thup:
		
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It was half full when the 2nd half kicked off, but pretty full within 5 minutes......unlike the emirates.

I seen some mad things today.

Sturridge tracked back, and one weirdo even had black boots on - whats that all about?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 11, 2016)

Were where you rednoses after the Burnley match? None of you's posted or mentioned top 4 then


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## Tashyboy (Sep 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Were where you rednoses after the Burnley match? None of you's posted or mentioned top 4 then 

Click to expand...

Nah when Paul behave it's a bit early for that &#128513;

Lallana, saw him a couple of years ago ripping City apart for the saints and thought he was clas. he is what Rooney wants to be but Lallana has energy ( and hair).

was reading about how much running the City team did v Utd. As a team it was about 8 km more. But it was the Utd team that looked knackered.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 11, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Nah when Paul behave it's a bit early for that &#128513;

Lallana, saw him a couple of years ago ripping City apart for the saints and thought he was clas. he is what Rooney wants to be but Lallana has energy ( and hair).

was reading about how much running the City team did v Utd. As a team it was about 8 km more. But it was the Utd team that looked knackered.
		
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Behave? Me? Nah &#128515; just love the selective match reports, they were excellent and made Leicester look poor, but same amount of points off them as last season.
Not a single one of them posted after the Burnley match, so, unlucky, rough with the smooth.
They'll probably finish above us so got to make the most of it. :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Were where you rednoses after the Burnley match? None of you's posted or mentioned top 4 then 

Click to expand...

I was on holiday.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 11, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			It was half full when the 2nd half kicked off, but pretty full within 5 minutes......unlike the emirates.

I seen some mad things today.

Sturridge tracked back, and one weirdo even had black boots on - whats that all about?
		
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He's so frustrating at times, when he's in the mood he's superb it's just a shame he cannot be relied upon.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Were where you rednoses after the Burnley match? None of you's posted or mentioned top 4 then 

Click to expand...

We're always about mate, win, lose or draw.

We give so much reason to Pinseeker's life.

Have we mentioned top 4 today?


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 11, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Anyway, can we all agree now that if Man U win the league, they've bought it.

Saves any arguments later, then.:thup:
		
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Liverbirdie said:



			Stop being so bloody reasonable - where's the fun in that?

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Liverbirdie said:



			Thats one expensive Chinese that.......as Dave Whelan may say.

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Liverbirdie said:



			It was.

However, he is some "baddie" though.

We nearly got him the year before you did. Him and Suarez would have played together for a year - I think I might have booed and hissed at them.

Click to expand...




Liverpoolphil said:



			Seems like a lot of empty seats in the stadium - pictures of areas of the stands where they had sold ST but no actual seats in place. 

If that's the amount they can't get into the stadium for the grand opening first game will they ever fill it ? Maybe they have a stadium that is too big for them. But then it's costing them peanuts so shouldn't be a money drain
		
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Liverbirdie said:



			August gates can somewhat skew the figures, due to lots being on holidays, so better to judge in September.

However, from what I'm told, I'm an armchair fan.

An armchair fan who has visited over 70 odd English grounds, been a season ticket holder for 30 years (and counting), been to over 30 European aways, 500 in the Uk......blah,blah,blah.

Oh to be a glory hunter, who hasnt been to my own "home" ground more than 10 times, embarassed by other old skool Chelsea fans on here, sitting in my Barnsley sky season ticket armchair. I think I'll invest in a big blue foam hand this year........

You couldn't make it up.......:rofl:
		
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I must be imagining these posts after the Burnley game, Paulo.:thup:


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## pokerjoke (Sep 11, 2016)

Can someone go back through the thread and find the posts where the Liverpool contingent were slagging Lallana off,now hes class.

Did anyone watch MOTD when Liverpool had that goal disallowed for off-side when Lallana went from his own half and set up the goal[that wasn't] cant remember who it was against[about 2 weeks ago],bloody brilliant play.
Dare I say it he looks a Utd player of old[pace] we are now pedestrian.

Wont be in the top 6


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 11, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			We're always about mate, win, lose or draw.

We give so much reason to Pinseeker's life.

Have we mentioned top 4 today?
		
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Your obsession really is worrying La &#128563;

You still cleaning the windows on Brookside close Sin?


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 11, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Can someone go back through the thread and find the posts where the Liverpool contingent were slagging Lallana off,now hes class.

Did anyone watch MOTD when Liverpool had that goal disallowed for off-side when Lallana went from his own half and set up the goal[that wasn't] cant remember who it was against[about 2 weeks ago],bloody brilliant play.
Dare I say it he looks a Utd player of old[pace] we are now pedestrian.

Wont be in the top 6
		
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Or maybe see if he has been picked in a different position at Liverpool?

I was one of the ones who slagged Lallana off, as his final contribution was poor. Not enough goals or assists.

He has recently been playing as one of the 3 in the midfield 3, instead of one of the 3 in a 4-2-3-1, so not as much attacking play expected of him.

So he scores his first goal for in 27 appearances for England, and some for Liverpool, and now he's Messi?

Judge a player on 1-2 months great form, if you like, but I'm judging him on 2 years worth.

Is Januzaj, still the new golden boy as he had a good 2-3 months once (not used him as a Man u example), but as an example of a few months of good form being the unusual, as opposed to the norm.:thup:


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## pokerjoke (Sep 11, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Or maybe see if he has been picked in a different position at Liverpool?

I was one of the ones who slagged Lallana off, as his final contribution was poor. Not enough goals or assists.

He has recently been playing as one of the 3 in the midfield 3, instead of one of the 3 in a 4-2-3-1, so not as much attacking play expected of him.

So he scores his first goal for in 27 appearances for England, and some for Liverpool, and now he's Messi?

Judge a player on 1-2 months great form, if you like, but I'm judging him on 2 years worth.

Is Januzaj, still the new golden boy as he had a good 2-3 months once (not used him as a Man u example), but as an example of a few months of good form being the unusual, as opposed to the norm.:thup:
		
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. 
I never mentioned Messi and I have never mentioned Januzaj as example's. I  suppose some are to quick to judge.As regards positions surely a good manager should know his players best position and attributes. I actually have always rated Lallana and now he is showing some form.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 11, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I must be imagining these posts after the Burnley game, Paulo.:thup:
		
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Were's the mention of Burnley or how you played? Not random posts!


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 11, 2016)

Why they heck are you talking about a game nearly a month ago ?!? 

We were rubbish , we couldn't score in an open net that day 

Sorry I didn't post on the day but I was watching the T20 finals and was away the weekend 

But I'll make sure it doesn't happen again.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why they heck are you talking about a game nearly a month ago ?!? 

We were rubbish , we couldn't score in an open net that day 

Sorry I didn't post on the day but I was watching the T20 finals and was away the weekend 

But I'll make sure it doesn't happen again.
		
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Cheers Phil, got to take the rough with the smooth, otherwise we'll think you're like the Arsenal fans who only post when they win &#128515;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 11, 2016)

That Chelsea line up looks very strong could be an interesting season if they and City both go on a run.


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## sawtooth (Sep 11, 2016)

Nice dive Ivanovic. Pathetic.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 11, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Nice dive Ivanovic. Pathetic.
		
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Not as pathetic as someone who misses both bits of contact before he goes down.


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## sawtooth (Sep 11, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Not as pathetic as someone who misses both bits of contact before he goes down.
		
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I saw the contact , It was nothing and he went down 5 minutes later to win a free kick.


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## anotherdouble (Sep 11, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Nice dive Ivanovic. Pathetic.
		
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And Giroud is a stand up citizen.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 11, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			And Giroud is a stand up citizen.
		
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If Swansea had been going through the back of Arsenal players like they are Chelsea's players he'd be squealing like a stuck pig; ignores all of that and picks out a perceived dive despite the player being kicked twice.  Hypocrisy of the first order.


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## anotherdouble (Sep 11, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			If Swansea had been going through the back of Arsenal players like they are Chelsea's players he'd be squealing like a stuck pig; ignores all of that and picks out a perceived dive despite the player being kicked twice.  Hypocrisy of the first order.
		
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they don't see it at the Emirates though.


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## sawtooth (Sep 11, 2016)

I don't like to see cheating full stop. Giroud included.

I admit Giroud went down too easily for the pen yesterday. Therefore technically cheating.

Pity you can't admit the same about Ivanovic unless you genuinely think that he couldn't stay on his feet due to the force of the challenge.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 11, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I don't like to see cheating full stop. Giroud included.

I admit Giroud went down too easily for the pen yesterday. Therefore technically cheating.

Pity you can't admit the same about Ivanovic unless you genuinely think that he couldn't stay on his feet due to the force of the challenge.
		
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So obviously you posted showing your disgust in Giroud for cheating?


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## anotherdouble (Sep 11, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I don't like to see cheating full stop. Giroud included.

I admit Giroud went down too easily for the pen yesterday. Therefore technically cheating.

Pity you can't admit the same about Ivanovic unless you genuinely think that he couldn't stay on his feet due to the force of the challenge.
		
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I have posted my times about the failings of individuals from my team. You however just like to pick at any player or team and then go on the defensive when anybody criticises anything to do with Arsenal.


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## sawtooth (Sep 11, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			So obviously you posted showing your disgust in Giroud for cheating?
		
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If it was on live and I was in front of my computer I would have!


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 11, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I don't like to see cheating full stop. Giroud included.

I admit Giroud went down too easily for the pen yesterday. Therefore technically cheating.

Pity you can't admit the same about Ivanovic unless you genuinely think that he couldn't stay on his feet due to the force of the challenge.
		
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Ah so it's actually cheating and worthy of a post if a Chelsea player goes down when kicked twice but only technically cheating and not worthy of a mention until you're caught out if it's an Arsenal player who, on your own admission, goes down too easily then?  Got it now. :thup:

I'd put the spade down if I were you, the hole's big enough as it isâ€¦â€¦.


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## anotherdouble (Sep 11, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			If it was on live and I was in front of my computer I would have!
		
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Let's hope when Arsenal are next live we see it. Somehow me thinks not.


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## sawtooth (Sep 11, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			I have posted my times about the failings individuals. You however just like to pick at any player or team and then go on the defensive when anybody criticises anything to do with Arsenal.
		
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Not true I don't like cheating and play acting full stop.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 11, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			If it was on live and I was in front of my computer I would have!
		
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So did you post after seeing the hi lights? 
Have you ever posted condemning a Arsenal player for diving?


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 11, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Not true I don't like cheating and play acting full stop.
		
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Agree here 100%. 
I haven't seen the Ivanovic incident as I only caught the back end of the 1st half. 
But Ivanovic as been guilty of play acting in the past.


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## anotherdouble (Sep 11, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Not true I don't like cheating and play acting full stop.
		
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I never said anything about just cheating. People criticised Arsenal players on England duty and even though the player couldn't dribble, cross, control a ball the defensive gates came down.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 11, 2016)

How is that not a foul on Cahill?


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 11, 2016)

Marriner showing himself up as an absolute joke.  Still, I'm sure sawtooth will be along shortly to tell us Cahill dived.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 11, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			How is that not a foul on Cahill?
		
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How have Swansea still got 11 on the field?


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## sawtooth (Sep 11, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			I never said anything about just cheating. People criticised Arsenal players on England duty and even though the player couldn't dribble, cross, control a ball the defensive gates came down.
		
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Look back on my posts I've criticised Walcott plenty before. I took issue with a comment that implied Walcott was the worst player. He only came on with 20 mins to go. 

Don't always make it an Arsenal thing. Any player coming on with 20 mins or less to go may take a bit of time to get into the game. 

Ask any footballer and they will tell you.


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## anotherdouble (Sep 11, 2016)

Everybody apart from Mariner could see that was a foul but what was Cahill doing when alone like that anyway. A defensive coach like Conte will not like what he has seen today


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## sawtooth (Sep 11, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Marriner showing himself up as an absolute joke.  Still, I'm sure sawtooth will be along shortly to tell us Cahill dived. 

Click to expand...

No wrong again. Cahill was fouled no doubt about it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 11, 2016)

Well that was an entertaining game 

Bit of spice in it 

The incidents prob even themselves up 

Prob two dropped points for Chelsea , nasty fall for Terry - luckily they have sideshow bob to fill the shoes


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 11, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			No wrong again. Cahill was fouled no doubt about it.
		
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But no comment on the two dives by Swansea in injury time though?  You're even worse than Marriner.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well that was an entertaining game 

Bit of spice in it 

*The incidents prob even themselves up *

Prob two dropped points for Chelsea , nasty fall for Terry - luckily they have sideshow bob to fill the shoes
		
Click to expand...

There's two people on here with worse judgement than Marrinerâ€¦â€¦.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 11, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			There's two people on here with worse judgement than Marrinerâ€¦â€¦. 

Click to expand...

? 

Cahill was fouled and the goal shouldn't have stood 

And Costa should have got a second yellow and be off for his dive ( the third time this season now he should have been off but gone on to have an impact on the result ) but went on to score an equaliser which could have been deemed dangerous as he kicked someone in the head


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## sawtooth (Sep 11, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			But no comment on the two dives by Swansea in injury time though?  You're even worse than Marriner.
		
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I didn't see those incidents real time but just for you I went back and watched just now.

I assume you mean hazard challenge on naughton - foul as hazard pushed him over 

The other one ( in the box) was a clear dive by the Swansea player


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			? 

Cahill was fouled and the goal shouldn't have stood 

*And Costa should have got a second yellow and be off for his dive ( the third time this season now he should have been off but gone on to have an impact on the result ) but went on to score an equaliser which could have been deemed dangerous as he kicked someone in the head*

Click to expand...

Try re-watching it and look at Fabianski's little trip with the foot and then the shoulder charge to knock him over.  No dive there at all.  

If you want to talk about accumulated yellow cards that weren't given, do give us the benefit of your wisdom as to how Fer and Amat stayed on the field?  Try looking at all the incidents rather than another opportunity to take a dig at Costa.


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## anotherdouble (Sep 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			? 

Cahill was fouled and the goal shouldn't have stood 

And Costa should have got a second yellow and be off for his dive ( the third time this season now he should have been off but gone on to have an impact on the result ) but went on to score an equaliser which could have been deemed dangerous as he kicked someone in the head
		
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It could have been deemed that dangerous that not one Swansea player appealed


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 11, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I didn't see those incidents real time but just for you I went back and watched just now.
		
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Strange how you miss the Swansea indiscretions; are you suffering from Arsenitis, that well known condition of selective vision?



sawtooth said:



			I assume you mean hazard challenge on naughton - foul as hazard pushed him over
		
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No it was on Barrow who fell over when there was clearly insufficient contact; a bit of a Giroud, if you like.



sawtooth said:



			The other one ( in the box) was a clear dive by the Swansea player
		
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And yet, despite your apparent dislike of cheating, you chose not to criticise it.  Was it because he didn't play for Chelsea?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 11, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			It could have been deemed that dangerous that not one Swansea player appealed
		
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It's a tough one because so many times players have pulled off the skill brilliant then get punished for the high foot at someone's head - highlighted it with two incidents on Goals on Sunday today - one gets pulled up the other doesn't. But as with the Swansea CB he shouldn't have been on the pitch to score it in my opinion as he should have been booked for the dive.


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## freddielong (Sep 11, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Try re-watching it and look at Fabianski's little trip with the foot and then the shoulder charge to knock him over.  No dive there at all.  

If you want to talk about accumulated yellow cards that weren't given, do give us the benefit of your wisdom as to how Fer and Amat stayed on the field?  Try looking at all the incidents rather than another opportunity to take a dig at Costa.
		
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Try re watching it without the Chelsea blinkers Costa is already going down at that point, his dive creates the contact.


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## anotherdouble (Sep 11, 2016)

What dive. Are you on about the 'tangle' with fabianski. Went down easy but not a dive.


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## freddielong (Sep 11, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			What dive. Are you on about the 'tangle' with fabianski. Went down easy but not a dive.
		
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Hmmmm ok &#128402;not a dive


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## anotherdouble (Sep 11, 2016)

It was that much of a talking point I don't think it has even been mentioned in the studio


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## freddielong (Sep 11, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			It was that much of a talking point I don't think it has even been mentioned in the studio
		
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Oh no quick just talk about what there saying in the studio.


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## anotherdouble (Sep 11, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Oh no quick just talk about what there saying in the studio.
		
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Pathetic comment.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 11, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Try re-watching it and look at Fabianski's little trip with the foot and then the shoulder charge to knock him over.  No dive there at all.  

If you want to talk about accumulated yellow cards that weren't given, do give us the benefit of your wisdom as to how Fer and Amat stayed on the field?  Try looking at all the incidents rather than another opportunity to take a dig at Costa.
		
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What was the difference between the challenge on Costa that Amat got booked for which was a clash of heads and the challenge by Costa and Naughton on the back post where Costa jumped into him? Amat and possibly Fer could have both been sent off but to deny that Costa could also have gone is blinkered at best and totally biased at worst.


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## freddielong (Sep 11, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			Pathetic comment.
		
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Ok, less pathetic than defending Costa's dive or more pathetic.


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## anotherdouble (Sep 11, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Ok, less pathetic than defending Costa's dive or more pathetic.
		
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Sorry can't be bothered. Have already said he went down easy but not a dive.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 11, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			Sorry can't be bothered. Have already said he went down easy but not a dive.
		
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In your opinion what's the difference between a dive and going down easily?


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## freddielong (Sep 11, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			Sorry can't be bothered. Have already said he went down easy but not a dive.
		
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He dived admit it the game is over the refs not listening, it will make you feel better.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 11, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Try re watching it without the Chelsea blinkers Costa is already going down at that point, his dive creates the contact.
		
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I watched it the first time without Chelsea blinkers on, he was on his feet until Fabianski challenged him, and a different Arsenal troll from the first one won't make me change my mind.


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## freddielong (Sep 11, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			I watched it the first time without Chelsea blinkers on, he was on his feet until Fabianski challenged him, and a different Arsenal troll from the first one won't make me change my mind.
		
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Ha ha what a load of rubbish


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 11, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Ha ha what a load of rubbish
		
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If that's the best you've got as a rebuttal I'll take it I was right then.  Try watching it again yourself without your Costa goggles on, then you can come back and explain how you got it wrong. :thup:


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## anotherdouble (Sep 11, 2016)

freddielong said:



			He dived admit it the game is over the refs not listening, it will make you feel better.
		
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I like my therapy sessions to be face to face, but thanks for your advice. Next time I am in need of what I need to do to feel better I know where to turn to. Your concern for my welfare is very kind of you


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## freddielong (Sep 11, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			If that's the best you've got as a rebuttal I'll take it I was right then.  Try watching it again yourself without your Costa goggles on, then you can come back and explain how you got it wrong. :thup:
		
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I doesn't matter admit it or not, it was a dive, the ref bottled sending him off, again, everyone else can see it .


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 11, 2016)

freddielong said:



			I doesn't matter admit it or not, it was a dive, the ref bottled sending him off, again, everyone else can see it .
		
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Curiously enough, the only commentator that thought that was the ex-Arsenal player; maybe it's something that medical science will one day find a cure for.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 11, 2016)

Just watching the man city Salford derby game again on MUTV of all things. Some of the bias commentating is unbelievable. Bit like reading some of the comments on here &#128513;


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## freddielong (Sep 11, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Curiously enough, the only commentator that thought that was the ex-Arsenal player; maybe it's something that medical science will one day find a cure for. 

Click to expand...

No, unfortunately I think diving cheating and Chelsea are here to stay but we can always hope.


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## One Planer (Sep 11, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Just watching the man city Salford derby game again on MUTV of all things. Some of the bias commentating is unbelievable. Bit like reading some of the comments on here &#128513;
		
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Amen brother


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 11, 2016)

On 5 live drive in tonight they had a ref phone in to give his views on incidents 

Said that Amat should have gone 

Swansea second goal shouldn't have stood because of the foul on Cahill

Costa should have been booked for simulation and gone 

No issues with the Costa goal 

Ki should have been booked for simulation


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## freddielong (Sep 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			On 5 live drive in tonight they had a ref phone in to give his views on incidents 

Said that Amat should have gone 

Swansea second goal shouldn't have stood because of the foul on Cahill

Costa should have been booked for simulation and gone 

No issues with the Costa goal 

Ki should have been booked for simulation
		
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A referee grr, what does he know hey Blue, probably one of those Arsenal supporting troll referees you get now days.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			On 5 live drive in tonight they had a ref phone in to give his views on incidents 

Said that Amat should have gone 

Swansea second goal shouldn't have stood because of the foul on Cahill

Costa should have been booked for simulation and gone 

*No issues with the Costa goal* 

Ki should have been booked for simulation
		
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How can there be no issues with the Costa goal when he kicked the defender in the head on his follow through? And it wasn't like the defender was ducking to try to head the ball.


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## BesCumber (Sep 11, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Just watching the man city Salford derby game again on MUTV of all things. Some of the bias commentating is unbelievable. Bit like reading some of the comments on here &#62977;
		
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Must be a London thing Tashy.
If they're not dancing round handbags, they're clouting each other wi' em.


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## One Planer (Sep 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			On 5 live drive in tonight they had a ref phone in to give his views on incidents 

Said that Amat should have gone 

Swansea second goal shouldn't have stood because of the foul on Cahill

Costa should have been booked for simulation and gone 

No issues with the Costa goal 

Ki should have been booked for simulation
		
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Who was the ref?


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## garyinderry (Sep 11, 2016)

Bias commentary on MUTV.    who would have thought?   :rofl:


Looking forward to this Chelsea game on motd.   sounds like plenty going on.   I will get to see who is talking nonsense on here and who tells the truth.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			On 5 live drive in tonight they had a ref phone in to give his views on incidents 

Said that Amat should have gone 

Swansea second goal shouldn't have stood because of the foul on Cahill

Costa should have been booked for simulation and gone 

No issues with the Costa goal 

Ki should have been booked for simulation
		
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Well I suppose he got three out of the five right, that's a better return than Marriner.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 11, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			Bias commentary on MUTV.    who would have thought?   :rofl:


*Looking forward to this Chelsea game on motd.   sounds like plenty going on.   I will get to see who is talking nonsense on here and who tells the truth.*

Click to expand...

Surely that will depend on what "highlights" the BBC choose to include?


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## Fish (Sep 11, 2016)

The Amat incident is key though, if he walks, as he should have done, they have to change their formation immediately, and more than likely then don't score 2 minutes later!  The ref felt the need to talk to him and the captain after the foul but didn't book him, again!


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## Stuart_C (Sep 11, 2016)

Just seen the Fer goal for  Swansea and that is a foul all day long.

I expect Marriner to be stood down next week. Shocking decision.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 11, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			. 
I never mentioned Messi and I have never mentioned Januzaj as example's. I  suppose some are to quick to judge.As regards positions surely a good manager should know his players best position and attributes. I actually have always rated Lallana and now he is showing some form.
		
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You didnt mention Messi, Ill give you that.I mentioned Januzaj as an example of a 2-3 month form guide not transferring to a season of form. 

Yes, he is showing form but it is long overdue. 6 goals in 2 seasons isnt good enough for a winger/no.10. You should be getting double figures, or at least setting up another 10. I also include Coutinho in that although he has improved year on year.

Overall, Lallana's contribution for us in 2 seasons has been sub-standard, for all his Cruyff turns and nice touches, and just looks great on a highlights package.His work rate is admirable, though, but so was Heskey's, but up that end of the pitch goals/assists are what pay the rent.:thup:


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Were's the mention of Burnley or how you played? Not random posts!
		
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You only had to ask, mate.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			On 5 live drive in tonight they had a ref phone in to give his views on incidents 

Said that Amat should have gone 

Swansea second goal shouldn't have stood because of the foul on Cahill

Costa should have been booked for simulation and gone 

No issues with the Costa goal 

Ki should have been booked for simulation
		
Click to expand...

That is just one persons view, doesnt necessarily make it right.

Its like when one player or manager says....."he was the greatest defender I ever saw", it still doesnt make it a fact.

It sound like it should have ended 5-a-side.......


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 11, 2016)

If I was a Chelsea fan I'd be pissed off tonight, 2 reasons, 1, Cahill was clearly fouled, 2, Game should've been put to bed regardless of bad decisions, totally dominated the game.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 11, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			You didnt mention Messi, Ill give you that.I mentioned Januzaj as an example of a 2-3 month form guide not transferring to a season of form. 

Yes, he is showing form but it is long overdue. 6 goals in 2 seasons isnt good enough for a winger/no.10. You should be getting double figures, or at least setting up another 10. I also include Coutinho in that although he has improved year on year.

Overall, Lallana's contribution for us in 2 seasons has been sub-standard, for all his Cruyff turns and nice touches, and just looks great on a highlights package.His work rate is admirable, though, but so was Heskey's, but up that end of the pitch goals/assists are what pay the rent.:thup:
		
Click to expand...

In fairness his 1st season was interrupted by injuries, he improved last season though I'd agree his goal return was poor and I said earlier on in this thread that needed to improve. I think it was Papas who said he wasn't a goalscorer. 

I don't like the assist stat as it doesn't show a true reflection of the players performances.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 11, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			In fairness his 1st season was interrupted by injuries, he improved last season though I'd agree his goal return was poor and I said earlier on in this thread that needed to improve. I think it was Papas who said he wasn't a goalscorer. 

I don't like the assist stat as it doesn't show a true reflection of the players performances.
		
Click to expand...

This year could be your year........ for assists


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## Stuart_C (Sep 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			This year could be your year........ for assists 

Click to expand...

One things for certain, it won't be yours :ears::rofl:


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 11, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			In fairness his 1st season was interrupted by injuries, he improved last season though I'd agree his goal return was poor and I said earlier on in this thread that needed to improve. I think it was Papas who said he wasn't a goalscorer. 

I don't like the assist stat as it doesn't show a true reflection of the players performances.
		
Click to expand...

If you dont have the goals, you must have the assists.

Beardsley was never a prolific scorer, but he did his share, and more than made up for it in assists. Heskey made a career of it.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 11, 2016)

Foul on Cahill.


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## USER1999 (Sep 11, 2016)

It's Chelsea, who gives a stuff.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 11, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			If you dont have the goals, you must have the assists.

Beardsley was never a prolific scorer, but he did his share, and more than made up for it in assists. Heskey made a career of it.
		
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An assist is only the final ball, sometimes  the hard work has been done before that final ball, yet the player who has the final touch gets credited. 

I'd like to see him involved a lot more and in fairness his good performances towards the end of last season he's carried on into this season.

Heskey was turd.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 11, 2016)

murphthemog said:



			It's Chelsea, who gives a stuff.
		
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Next week that ref will be at The Emirates and  it'll be Arsenal next.

Regardless of who the team was, it's a shocking decision.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 11, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			An assist is only the final ball, sometimes  the hard work has been done before that final ball, yet the player who has the final touch gets credited. 

I'd like to see him involved a lot more and in fairness his good performances towards the end of last season he's carried on into this season.

Heskey was turd.
		
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I think your just making excuses for him.

If your playing as a no.10/winger you should be scoring or assisting 15 minimum a season.

He has been very good for 2-3 months, carry on doing it and I'd have him in the team every week, but still early doors for me after seeing 2 years of average.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 11, 2016)

freddielong said:



			He dived admit it the game is over the refs not listening, it will make you feel better.
		
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freddielong said:



			I doesn't matter admit it or not, it was a dive, the ref bottled sending him off, again, everyone else can see it .
		
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Well, now you've had a chance to see it again on MOTD, and had the benefit of further analysis, do you want to stick with the tosh you posted earlier or are you actually going to man up and admit you were wrong?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 11, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think your just making excuses for him.

If your playing as a no.10/winger you should be scoring or assisting 15 minimum a season.

He has been very good for 2-3 months, carry on doing it and I'd have him in the team every week, but still early doors for me after seeing 2 years of average.
		
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Not at all, I've wrote off his 1st season as he was injured in pre season came back around October and was injured in January iirc. By the Time he got back into the struggling Rodgers side the season was over. 

Last season was an improvement and if he carries it on like he has the last few games then I'm happy to have him in the team but he needs to add goals 10 at least.  

Same goes for Coutinho, Mane,Firmino etc.

I don't like the assist stat as it doesn't show a true reflection of a players game. He could take on 4 players do the hard work, square it to mane who knocks it sideways to Sturridge and he scores.  Mane gets the assist.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 11, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I don't like the assist stat as it doesn't show a true reflection of a players game. He could take on 4 players do the hard work, square it to mane who knocks it sideways to Sturridge and he scores.  Mane gets the assist.
		
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I know how it works, but a player operating in the 20-30 yards out area should be directly assisting goals.

Still got the excuse book out?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 11, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I know how it works, but a player operating in the 20-30 yards out area should be directly assisting goals.

Still got the excuse book out?

Click to expand...

Your then relying on the strikers to finish good balls into them.

Last season he had Benteke to serve and the season before Balotelli.

I had you down as better than this.

Assist stats are for armchair phone in merchants.


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## garyinderry (Sep 11, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Well, now you've had a chance to see it again on MOTD, and had the benefit of further analysis, do you want to stick with the tosh you posted earlier or are you actually going to man up and admit you were wrong?
		
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On first viewing from the TV camera up in the stand it looked as if he had thrown himself to the ground.   quite clearly he was fouled and went over as all footballers do.    

No sending off for that for me.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 11, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Your then relying on the strikers to finish good balls into them.

Last season he had Benteke to serve and the season before Balotelli.

I had you down as better than this.

Assist stats are for armchair phone in merchants.
		
Click to expand...

Nope I mainly go on what I seen of him every other week, and as you've agreed in person, he hasnt been good enough.

I dont often use stats as the main argument, and I go on an appreciation of the player, but with Lallana, up to the last 2 months of last season he didnt "contribute" enough in our attacking play in the final third of the game, either directly or indirectly. The last 3 months of play he has, and long may it continue. He is now playing to a good level, and if anything in a slightly withdrawn role, so even better.

Are you still watching his 100 best Cruyff turns video?


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 11, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			On first viewing from the TV camera up in the stand it looked as if he had thrown himself to the ground.   quite clearly he was fouled and went over as all footballers do.    

No sending off for that for me.
		
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And thats coming from sn Arsenal fan, BIM.

He'll be getting thrown out the union.....


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## Stuart_C (Sep 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Nope I mainly go on what I seen of him every other week, and as you've agreed in person, he hasnt been good enough.

*I dont often use stats as the main argument*, and I go on an appreciation of the player, but with Lallana, up to the last 2 months of last season he didnt "contribute" enough in our attacking play in the final third of the game, either directly or indirectly. The last 3 months of play he has, and long may it continue. He is now playing to a good level, and if anything in a slightly withdrawn role, so even better.

Are you still watching his 100 best Cruyff turns video?

Click to expand...

I have it on repeat:whoo:

You're being harsh saying he's only had 2good months last season, his performances  were better from Christmas at least.

If you're going to use a stat make sure it's a worthy one ffs :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 12, 2016)

Phil, here's the view from the Â£9 tickets.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 12, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			In fairness his 1st season was interrupted by injuries, he improved last season though I'd agree his goal return was poor and I said earlier on in this thread that needed to improve. I think it was Papas who said he wasn't a goalscorer. 

I don't like the assist stat as it doesn't show a true reflection of the players performances.
		
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I like the assist stat if it produces results Ozil is a prime example of this.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			You didnt mention Messi, Ill give you that.I mentioned Januzaj as an example of a 2-3 month form guide not transferring to a season of form. 

Yes, he is showing form but it is long overdue. 6 goals in 2 seasons isnt good enough for a winger/no.10. You should be getting double figures, or at least setting up another 10. I also include Coutinho in that although he has improved year on year.

Overall, Lallana's contribution for us in 2 seasons has been sub-standard, for all his Cruyff turns and nice touches, and just looks great on a highlights package.His work rate is admirable, though, but so was Heskey's, but up that end of the pitch goals/assists are what pay the rent.:thup:
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully now he can kick on for Liverpool and England.
The way he is playing now is exactly what you paid good money for.
Of course you watch him more than me but I'm more impressed especially when hes playing well,would like him at Utd in this form.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 12, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I have it on repeat:whoo:

You're being harsh saying he's only had 2good months last season, his performances  were better from Christmas at least.

If you're going to use a stat make sure it's a worthy one ffs :rofl:
		
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And what stat proves he was boss from Christmas......looking forward to that one.


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## anotherdouble (Sep 12, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Phil, here's the view from the Â£9 tickets.








Click to expand...

Can't argue with that for under a tenner


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 12, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Hopefully now he can kick on for Liverpool and England.
The way he is playing now is exactly what you paid good money for.
Of course you watch him more than me but I'm more impressed especially when hes playing well,would like him at Utd in this form.
		
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Yep, I agree Tony. Currently he is everything you would want from a midfielder. Pressing and working his socks off, scoring and assisting and buying into the managers philosophy. Also a nice skin care range and leaving the local populace's grannies alone. 

What a thoroughly decent gentleman.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 12, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			Can't argue with that for under a tenner
		
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And you only get to see 1/2 our corners hit the first man.


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## freddielong (Sep 12, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Well, now you've had a chance to see it again on MOTD, and had the benefit of further analysis, do you want to stick with the tosh you posted earlier or are you actually going to man up and admit you were wrong?
		
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Yes 100% a dive he was going down before he got to flappyhandski.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 12, 2016)

Â£9 for that is very decent. Seen worse in other grounds or theatres for far more. Fair play to Liverpool for only charging that. Whoever buys them knows the score as well so they shouldn't be disappointed.

Had to laugh about not clearing the first person at corners. A real pet hate of mine.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			And what stat proves he was boss from Christmas......looking forward to that one.
		
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I don't need stats for me to make an opinion on a players performance. 

Stewart Dowing had great stats and data and look at how he turned out.

Stats are for armchair cling ons. Fact.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 12, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Â£9 for that is very decent. Seen worse in other grounds or theatres for far more. Fair play to Liverpool for only charging that. Whoever buys them knows the score as well so they shouldn't be disappointed.

Had to laugh about not clearing the first person at corners. A real pet hate of mine.
		
Click to expand...

We've mastered that art.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Nope I mainly go on what I seen of him every other week, and as you've agreed in person, he hasnt been good enough.

I dont often use stats as the main argument, and I go on an appreciation of the player, but with Lallana, up to the last 2 months of last season he didnt "contribute" enough in our attacking play in the final third of the game, either directly or indirectly. The last 3 months of play he has, and long may it continue. He is now playing to a good level, and if anything in a slightly withdrawn role, so even better.

Are you still watching his 100 best Cruyff turns video?

Click to expand...

can we all see the vid of stuc doing cruyff turns


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## Stuart_C (Sep 12, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			can we all see the vid of stuc doing cruyff turns 

Click to expand...

It's not pretty I tell thee!!


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## Stuart_C (Sep 12, 2016)

I'll have a pint of what Moysie's been on :rofl:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...e-could-have-won-the-premier-league-if-he-ha/


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 12, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I'll have a pint of what Moysie's been on :rofl:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...e-could-have-won-the-premier-league-if-he-ha/

Click to expand...

Unreal isn't it. :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 12, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Phil, here's the view from the Â£9 tickets.








Click to expand...

Cheers Stu

My cousin said the atmosphere was really good


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 12, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I don't need stats for me to make an opinion on a players performance. 

Stewart Dowing had great stats and data and look at how he turned out.

Stats are for armchair cling ons. Fact.
		
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Same here in the main, stats can help an argument, they aren't the be all and end all.

You've changed your mind, from when we discussed it in person. maybe your just a keyboard warrior.

You want some?:rofl:


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## Kellfire (Sep 12, 2016)

So much anger on this thread.

I'm not too unhappy with where Man Utd are right now. There were positives in that match and I think we'll do ok this year.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 12, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			can we all see the vid of stuc doing cruyff turns 

Click to expand...

Yes, but we have to clear Morrison's car park, first.


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## Kellfire (Sep 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			You want some?:rofl:
		
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You've got no fans! You've got no ground...


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## Stuart_C (Sep 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Same here in the main, stats can help an argument, they aren't the be all and end all.

You've changed your mind, from when we discussed it in person. maybe your just a keyboard warrior.

You want some?:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Changed my mind from what? 

I can't believe  Sinbad is offering straighteners :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Unreal isn't it. :rofl:
		
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Funny how he never mentions his stints with United and Real Sociedad though.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 12, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Changed my mind from what? 

I can't believe  Sinbad is offering straighteners :rofl:
		
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You agreed last year that Lallana wasn't up to standard.

Put em up, put em up!!!!


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 12, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Funny how he never mentions his stints with United and Real Sociedad though.
		
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noooo stop that nightmare talk!!!


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## Stuart_C (Sep 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			You agreed last year that Lallana wasn't up to standard.

Put em up, put em up!!!!

Click to expand...

I did but I also said he'd improved on his 1st season and I'd like to see him improve again  this and he needed to add goals to his game.

Upto now he's done it but needs to continue throughout this season.

Assists stats :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 12, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Funny how he never mentions his stints with United and Real Sociedad though.
		
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Wasn't his fault, :rofl:


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 12, 2016)

Good Lord, Sky have finally managed to stop talking about Saturday's Manchester derby and actually managed to mention tonight's game.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 12, 2016)

You can picture a very happy MikeH, a fine pint of bitter in hand watching this with a huge smile on his face. Lukaku looks unstoppable on this form but surely needs to be doing it every week


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 12, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			You can picture a very happy MikeH, a fine pint of bitter in hand watching this with a huge smile on his face. Lukaku looks unstoppable on this form but surely needs to be doing it every week
		
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Is that the form that hasnt seen him score since last March......or are you just talking the last 40 minutes?:mmm:


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Is that the form that hasnt seen him score since last March......or are you just talking the last 40 minutes?:mmm:
		
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I wasn't aware until it came up in commentary that it was that long and looking at his performance tonight you have to ask why? Is it new manager syndrome and why can't he do it week in week out.


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## Odvan (Sep 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Is that the form that hasnt seen him score since last March......or are you just talking the last 40 minutes?:mmm:
		
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I think he meant the form of that 45 minutes. He was poor first half, as was Mirallis and Barkley. Gueye looks like a bargain. Barry was superb throughout as was Bolasie. Your lot will be doing a lot of looking up this season ;-)


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 12, 2016)

Odvan said:



			I think he meant the form of that 45 minutes. He was poor first half, as was Mirallis and Barkley. Gueye looks like a bargain. Barry was superb throughout as was Bolasie. Your lot will be doing a lot of looking up this season ;-)
		
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I think Lukaku is a cracking striker, so much so, I still kept him in my fantasy league team,despite his poor run. He was still dangerous in the first half though, and could have had 5 on the night.

As a betting man, I'm sure you'd like to put your money where your marrrrrfffffff is.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 12, 2016)

Lukaku is lazy, shocking 1st half, Barkley was even worse and shouldn't of lasted 45 mins, Gueye and Williams were immense, Koeman must've had a go at them, Duelofeu woke Miralles up in the 2nd half, Bolaise needs to keep running at people.
Great win in the end, didn't think we'd see 3 goals at half time.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think Lukaku is a cracking striker, so much so, I still kept him in my fantasy league team,despite his poor run. He was still dangerous in the first half though, and could have had 5 on the night.

As a betting man, I'm sure you'd like to put your money where your marrrrrfffffff is.

Click to expand...

Pete, sat next to me nephew who came over for the match with a few mates, after Lukaku scored his 3rd one of his mates just sat there quiet, one of the lads asks if he was alright as he was not celebrating, he then showed us all his Bet 365 screen on his phone.

Half way through the first half he put 60 quid on Lukaku to score a hat trick at 66/1 and had just won 4 Grand, 
&#128515;


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## Odvan (Sep 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Pete, sat next to me nephew who came over for the match with a few mates, after Lukaku scored his 3rd one of his mates just sat there quiet, one of the lads asks if he was alright as he was not celebrating, he then showed us all his Bet 365 screen on his phone.

Half way through the first half he put 60 quid on Lukaku to score a hat trick at 66/1 and had just won 4 Grand, 
ï˜ƒ
		
Click to expand...

Not as quite a good a story but I told Birchy to 'lump on' an away win only to be greeted with "have I lost my marbles?" and then proceeded to tell him it'd be 0-2 or 0-3. I'd already stuck some on -1 so am happy, just not 4K happy.

And yes Pete, if ya that confident on 'pool finishing above Everton, offer me 11/4 and I'll stake Â£20 with ya? Â£55 if I (Everton above) win, Â£20 if I (Liverpool above) lose?


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Lukaku is lazy, shocking 1st half, Barkley was even worse and shouldn't of lasted 45 mins, Gueye and Williams were immense, Koeman must've had a go at them, Duelofeu woke Miralles up in the 2nd half, Bolaise needs to keep running at people.
Great win in the end, didn't think we'd see 3 goals at half time.
		
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Listen, I hate lazy players as much as the next man, but give me a Lukaku who will get you 20 odd a season over an Heskey who will chase every lost ball going, but be knackered or on the halfway line when he should be in the box, when you do have the ball.

Barkley was shocking in the 1st 10 minutes, didnt get much better. Williams is looking a belter of a signing, as is Bolasie (was happy when we were linked with him).

Cracking bet up for the nephew's mate.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 12, 2016)

Odvan said:



			Not as quite a good a story but I told Birchy to 'lump on' an away win only to be greeted with "have I lost my marbles?" and then proceeded to tell him it'd be 0-2 or 0-3. I'd already stuck some on -1 so am happy, just not 4K happy.

And yes Pete, if ya that confident on 'pool finishing above Everton, offer me 11/4 and I'll stake Â£20 with ya? Â£55 if I (Everton above) win, Â£20 if I (Liverpool above) lose? 

Click to expand...

Whoa there madman - you were giving it the big I am - you should be giving me odds, you were sounding so confident.

Based on your confidence, I'll be generous and give you evens on Â£25.

Double the bet and include our fantasy league teams, if you want.:thup:

Your not Welch are you.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Listen, I hate lazy players as much as the next man, but give me a Lukaku who will get you 20 odd a season over an Heskey who will chase every lost ball going, but be knackered or on the halfway line when he should be in the box, when you do have the ball.

Barkley was shocking in the 1st 10 minutes, didnt get much better. Williams is looking a belter of a signing, as is Bolasie (was happy when we were linked with him).

Cracking bet up for the nephew's mate.
		
Click to expand...

Best thing was the banner below


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Best thing was the banner below
View attachment 20763

Click to expand...

Good lads - Leicester had it up in their end on Saturday, as well.

These things should unite footy fans.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Good lads - Leicester had it up in their end on Saturday, as well.

These things should unite footy fans.
		
Click to expand...

Just seen on Sky News that Everton have donated Â£200,000.00 to the fund for the mascot tonight to send him to USA for treatment.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Just seen on Sky News that Everton have donated Â£200,000.00 to the fund for the mascot tonight to send him to USA for treatment.
		
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Spot on, the blues.:thup:


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## Odvan (Sep 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Whoa there madman - you were giving it the big I am - you should be giving me odds, you were sounding so confident.

Based on your confidence, I'll be generous and give you evens on Â£25.

Double the bet and include our fantasy league teams, if you want.:thup:

Your not Welch are you.

Click to expand...

Lol, if ever there is a vote of no confidence in your team, that is it, after all, your poor, under achieving neighbours couldn't quite possibly finish above you in the league, could they....

One seems to be running scared.

Skybet are offering 4/1 for Everton to finish above Liverpool, despite a 3 point start so my 11/4 was perfectly judged. Bookies are always right, eh....

Now who's the Welch ;-)

And I haven't done a fantasy team this season for I get all the fantasy I need from this thread...

My original suggested bet is my only suggestion. 

Stu C, Dave Mc or LP fancy it instead, you guys are more than all talk, surely. Any Liverpool fans got big nads?


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 12, 2016)

Odvan said:



			Lol, if ever there is a vote of no confidence in your team, that is it, after all, your poor, under achieving neighbours couldn't quite possibly finish above you in the league, could they....

One seems to be running scared.

Skybet are offering 4/1 for Everton to finish above Liverpool, despite a 3 point start so my 11/4 was perfectly judged. Bookies are always right, eh....

Now who's the Welch ;-)

And I haven't done a fantasy team this season for I get all the fantasy I need from this thread...

My original suggested bet is my only suggestion. 

Stu C, Dave Mc or LP fancy it instead, you guys are more than all talk, surely. Any Liverpool fans got big nads?



Click to expand...

As I thought, all mouth and no trousers.

I've shown I'm more than willing to give odds out in a bet, thought you would back your own judgement.

Anyway, shouldn't you be asleep now, dont want you daydreaming at your desk now, do we?


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 13, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Just seen on Sky News that Everton have donated Â£200,000.00 to the fund for the mascot tonight to send him to USA for treatment.
		
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:clap:


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 13, 2016)

I'm going to echo Paul's thoughts here. Gueye looks a belter of a signing. Well spotted whoever signed him. Looking through the mess that was Villa last year and seeing him as a diamond. Well done. Barry alongside him just does his stuff. What a cracking buy he has been. Williams and Jagielka are a brick wall across the penalty area.

First half was okay, Sunderland did their job. Ronnie obviously got to work at helf time. Barkley was off the pace and breaking up Everton's attacks, Mirallas was anonymous. Bolassie switched wings and just pinged crosses over for fun. Delofeu ripped up on the other wing. Pace was injected, the level went up a notch. Sunderland couldn't handle it.

When Lukaku plays like that and has service like that he is unstoppable. We just need to make sure it happens more often. Bolassie was man of the match for me. This year should be an exciting year for Everton. This was only Sunderland so we need to do this against better teams but the promise is there.

Question for Sunderland fans. There was a round of applause at 5 minutes but nothing came up on the screen. What was that for?

Weird moment of the night. We were sat to the right of the Everton fans, top level. We had a drink in the bar in that corner before the match. There were about 8 of us in the room. Never seen a bar area in a stadium so empty before. At half time we popped in again and it was only marginally better. Two people serving, awful service, dead as a doornail. Most clubs make a fortune in this area. Where we just in a dead section that both club and fans have given up on?


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## Rooter (Sep 13, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Question for Sunderland fans. There was a round of applause at 5 minutes but nothing came up on the screen. What was that for?
		
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37341891

bravo to all involved, nice to see clubs get personal, and super Bravo Everton, not even their mascot and they donated 200k! fantastic!


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 13, 2016)

Thanks Rooter.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 13, 2016)

Interesting arsenal line up.....


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## GreiginFife (Sep 13, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Interesting arsenal line up.....
		
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Interesting start


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## richy (Sep 13, 2016)

GreiginFife said:



			Interesting start
		
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Same old Arsenal


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## GreiginFife (Sep 13, 2016)

richy said:



			Same old Arsenal
		
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No idea why the fans put up with it. A team with so much disposable income should be better than drawing with Leicester and scraping past Southampton.
A board that seems more interested in shsreholder happiness than fan satisfaction, viewed from the outside in of course.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 13, 2016)

I thought Cacani played for Arsenal &#129300;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 13, 2016)

GreiginFife said:



			Interesting start
		
Click to expand...

And in Spain.


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## fundy (Sep 13, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Interesting arsenal line up.....
		
Click to expand...

and still Coquelin (booked) isnt rotated out lol

Wow how does cavani miss there


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## sawtooth (Sep 13, 2016)

Need  to bring Giroud on and push Sanchez out wide with Ox on the other side.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 13, 2016)

Arsenal look poor. Is it Wenger's fault or does it now run deeper and a lack of ambition by the board to invest. It's the hardest game of the group (in theory) and the first thing you want to do is keep it tight for the first fifteen minutes, not concede less than a minute in and then look like you'll concede again. Wenger hasn't much option off the bench and it seems to be the same old, same old


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 13, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			And in Spain.
		
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Feels like Celtic should be 7-0 down at HT


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## fundy (Sep 13, 2016)

For the Wenger apologists, a few questions

Why does he not pick his best keeper in the CL?
Why has he bought 2 central midfielders yet still picks Coquelin above them both?
Why hasnt he picked a striker in the first CL game of the year against the group favs?
Why are there still no leaders anywhere in the squad?

Was going to say its as bad as last year when we play a decent side but expect its worse, PSG arent that great and if anything Arsenal appear to have regressed further at this level.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2016)

Am I allowed to have an opinion on Arsenal or Wenger even though Liverpool aren't in the CL??


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## fundy (Sep 13, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Am I allowed to have an opinion Arsenal or Wenger even though Liverpool aren't in the CL??
		
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of course, open forum isnt it (and as a Lpool fan you obviously will  )


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## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2016)

fundy said:



			of course, open forum isnt it (and as a Lpool fan you obviously will  )
		
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I'm just being polite 

The reason I ask is any negative opinion about Wenger/Arsenal the response is usually " well your club haven't ..............."


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## fundy (Sep 13, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm just being polite 

The reason I ask is any negative opinion about Wenger/Arsenal the response is usually " well your club haven't ..............."
		
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the occasional view is fine, its the weekly dissection as if nothings wrong in your own backyard that gets a bit grinding


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 13, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Feels like Celtic should be 7-0 down at HT
		
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Penalty miss by dembele wasn't good, instead of 1-1 they quickly went 2-0 down and yes it could/should be 4 or 5 - 0,
2nd half PSG V Arsenal,


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## GreiginFife (Sep 13, 2016)

That Iniesta can play a bit

Edit: so can that Messi, 5 now


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## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2016)

fundy said:



			the occasional view is fine, its the weekly dissection as if nothings wrong in your own backyard that gets a bit grinding 

Click to expand...

Woah there, I'm probably the only one who points out our problems, can't say the same for the others though


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## fundy (Sep 13, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Woah there, I'm probably the only one who points out our problems, can't say the same for the others though

Click to expand...

at what point did I say that was about you lol , more a generic view on some of the liverpool posters on here 

just post your thoughts anyway


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## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2016)

fundy said:



			at what point did I say that was about you lol , more a generic view on some of the liverpool posters on here 

just post your thoughts anyway 

Click to expand...

Nah it's alright, I'll save it for another time 

Ospina has had a great game between the sticks tonight though.


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## fundy (Sep 13, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Nah it's alright, I'll save it for another time 

Ospina has had a great game between the sticks tonight though.
		
Click to expand...

outside Cavani hes been Arsenals best player tonight


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## fundy (Sep 13, 2016)

massive bonus getting a point, only papering over the cracks though. could be worse, could be a celtic fan (or wolves or qpr)

ref having a laugh with those 2 reds


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## jp5 (Sep 13, 2016)

Bit of luck and some great goalkeeping makes a good point.

Wish he would just play Sanchez in his proper position.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 13, 2016)

Great result that for Arsenal, didn't see the 1st half, but not a bad 2nd half performance overall, rode their luck at times and Ospina was top notch,


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## Piece (Sep 13, 2016)

Ooof, that was a knobbing. Barca even not breaking sweat.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 13, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Feels like Celtic should be 7-0 down at HT
		
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That was weird.......FT then:lol:


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## sawtooth (Sep 13, 2016)

A great result against a very good team away from home. No mean feat to go there and come back with something. Well done to Wenger for having the courage to play Ospina after what happened last year. Good man management that and it would have done Ospina's confidence the world of good.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 14, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			A great result against a very good team away from home. No mean feat to go there and come back with something. Well done to Wenger for having the courage to play Ospina after what happened last year. Good man management that and it would have done Ospina's confidence the world of good.
		
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Didn't see the 1st half, Ospina had a superb game, but good man management for Ospina surely means he got it wrong with the other starting 10, Ospina and bad finishing aside, on the 2nd half alone your defence and midfield were chasing shadows at times, great result, but you need to be a bit more honest about the whole performance.


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## HankMarvin (Sep 14, 2016)

X



Piece said:



			Ooof, that was a knobbing. Barca even not breaking sweat.
		
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Yul Brynner leading Barca to victory in the Magnificent Seven. Brendon Rodgers said his team were not going their to be passengers, he was right they were there as spectators


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## Stuart_C (Sep 14, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Didn't see the 1st half, Ospina had a superb game, but good man management for Ospina surely means he got it wrong with the other starting 10, Ospina and bad finishing aside, on the 2nd half alone your defence and midfield were chasing shadows at times, great result, but you need to be a bit more honest about the whole performance.
		
Click to expand...

Ospina is  a world class goalkeeper apparently, he's only played 10 games in last 12 months


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 14, 2016)

Question for Sunderland fans, open to others as well. Talking to a mate after Mondays match we were looking at the way this season is going to go for Sunderland and Newcastle. Newcastle have re-grouped and are likely to have a strong season. Fans will be positive, they will see their team win lots of matches. They will be happy. Sunderland are going to have a 6th grim year on the trot. They will see their team lose more often than not, expectations will be low, atmosphere in the ground will be grim.

Who are better off, Sunderland or Newcastle? Will Sunderland be better off going down this year rather than hanging on for grim death yet again but not really progressing? Will a year in the championship give them a chance to re-group?


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## sawtooth (Sep 14, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Didn't see the 1st half, Ospina had a superb game, but good man management for Ospina surely means he got it wrong with the other starting 10, Ospina and bad finishing aside, on the 2nd half alone your defence and midfield were chasing shadows at times, great result, but you need to be a bit more honest about the whole performance.
		
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Yeah the performance wasn't great but the result was.

It was PSG in Paris so was never going to be a walk in the park. Many a good side would be chasing shadows for a period of the game against that team. Chelsea, City , etc have gone there before and haven't won so it's no great surprised to be outclassed and out played at times.

Wenger has experimented with Sanchez but I think he will give that one up now. Worth a try but Sanchez ain't no CF.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 14, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah the performance wasn't great but the result was.

It was PSG in Paris so was never going to be a walk in the park. Many a good side would be chasing shadows for a period of the game against that team. Chelsea, City , etc have gone there before and haven't won so it's no great surprised to be outclassed and out played at times.

Wenger has experimented with Sanchez but I think he will give that one up now. Worth a try but Sanchez ain't no CF.
		
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You still avoided the question, totally agree it was a great result and I fully support any English team in Europe, but are you really giving credit to Wenger for the result? Come on mate, he dodged a bullet last night. His team selection got lucky. Sanchez in the 2nd half ran his guts out and I'm sure before last night we knew he was no CF.


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## Hobbit (Sep 14, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Question for Sunderland fans, open to others as well. Talking to a mate after Mondays match we were looking at the way this season is going to go for Sunderland and Newcastle. Newcastle have re-grouped and are likely to have a strong season. Fans will be positive, they will see their team win lots of matches. They will be happy. Sunderland are going to have a 6th grim year on the trot. They will see their team lose more often than not, expectations will be low, atmosphere in the ground will be grim.

Who are better off, Sunderland or Newcastle? Will Sunderland be better off going down this year rather than hanging on for grim death yet again but not really progressing? Will a year in the championship give them a chance to re-group?
		
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Could flip that around for Middlesbrough. I wanted them to get promoted but would have preferred an entertaining season pushing for top rather than a Prem season probably looking at the trapdoor immediately below.


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## Hobbit (Sep 14, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			You still avoided the question, totally agree it was a great result and I fully support any English team in Europe, but are you really giving credit to Wenger for the result? Come on mate, he dodged a bullet last night. His team selection got lucky. Sanchez in the 2nd half ran his guts out and I'm sure before last night we knew he was no CF.
		
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Did his team selection get lucky, or was it a good result? I thought the team he picked had draw written all over it. He set out for a draw against a very tough side away from home.

Well done Wenger and the Wenger boys.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 14, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Could flip that around for Middlesbrough. I wanted them to get promoted but would have preferred an entertaining season pushing for top rather than a Prem season probably looking at the trapdoor immediately below.
		
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I think in the first season up there is still raw excitement and a level of forgiveness if you get badly turned over. In Sunderland's position this has become standard, a bit like Wigan. I don't see the fun it it, they are surviving but nothing more. Boro look better than Sunderland so I think you may be okay. The aim is to stabilise yr 1, progress yr 2, move up to mid table yr 3. If you are always 4th from bottom I don't really see the point.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 14, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Did his team selection get lucky, or was it a good result? I thought the team he picked had draw written all over it. He set out for a draw against a very tough side away from home.

Well done Wenger and the Wenger boys.
		
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Brian, fantastic result with hindsight, saw the 1st half highlights and watched the 2nd half, it wasn't a good team performance, without Ospina and poor finishing it could've easily been 3/4 - 0.
No manager could set up a team deliberately for that.
Hopefully tonight we'll see the other 3 win.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 14, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Ospina is  a world class goalkeeper apparently, he's only played 10 games in last 12 months  

Click to expand...

think his contract is only for CL matches .......


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 14, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think in the first season up there is still raw excitement and a level of forgiveness if you get badly turned over. In Sunderland's position this has become standard, a bit like Wigan. I don't see the fun it it, they are surviving but nothing more. Boro look better than Sunderland so I think you may be okay. The aim is to stabilise yr 1, progress yr 2, move up to mid table yr 3. If you are always 4th from bottom I don't really see the point.
		
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Sunderland will finish 12-15 this season.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 14, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Sunderland will finish 12-15 this season.
		
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you offering odvans 11/4 against that....


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 14, 2016)

I think that is hugely optimistic. If they stay up and keep Moyes then I can see that for next season. I'm not sure he can save them this year, even at this early stage. Which, minimum, five teams are worse than Sunderland?


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## Hobbit (Sep 14, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Brian, fantastic result with hindsight, saw the 1st half highlights and watched the 2nd half, it wasn't a good team performance, without Ospina and poor finishing it could've easily been 3/4 - 0.
No manager could set up a team deliberately for that.
Hopefully tonight we'll see the other 3 win.
		
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Lots of managers have started away games without a striker, packing midfield or adding a 5th defender. Their intention being not to concede a goal, and maybe sneak a win. It's not a team/formation set up to win, it's set up not to lose, ergo a draw.


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## jp5 (Sep 14, 2016)

The formation was no different to playing an out and out striker up front. It was just the wrong player in that position.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 14, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Sunderland will finish 12-15 this season.
		
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Is Defoe Sunderland's player now, or his on loan from an USA side? If he ie will he play the full season?


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## stokie_93 (Sep 14, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Is Defoe Sunderland's player now, or his on loan from an USA side? If he ie will he play the full season?
		
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He's never been on loan at Sunderland mate, they signed him directly from Toronto.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 14, 2016)

He belongs to Sunderland now. Problem is they don't seem to have another striker that actually scores. Can he play every game, can he keep fit? His record for injuries is good but it is asking a lot for the whole burden to be on him at his age.

Seeing Stokie reply made me think. Sunderland should go to Stoke and ask for Crouch on loan. Back to little and large, Defoe and Crouch - Quinn and Philips. That would make sense to me.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 14, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Lots of managers have started away games without a striker, packing midfield or adding a 5th defender. Their intention being not to concede a goal, and maybe sneak a win. It's not a team/formation set up to win, it's set up not to lose, ergo a draw.
		
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It wasn't the formation they were awful and got a great result.


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## fundy (Sep 14, 2016)

Arsenal got a draw despite the initial set up not because of it. Ospina had a blinder and Cavani an utter shocker, Ibra wouldve scored 3 maybe 4 in Cavani's shoes last night.

A very lucky point papers over cracks that nothing has changed and that we wont be competing with the best in the CL yet again.

Giving Wenger credit for last night is frankly laughable imo, best you could give him is he corrected some of his initial mistakes


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 14, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think that is hugely optimistic. If they stay up and keep Moyes then I can see that for next season. I'm not sure he can save them this year, even at this early stage. Which, minimum, five teams are worse than Sunderland?
		
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Aren't judging them against 5 worse teams, just think he'll get them solid and getting results. Not getting a win in the first few games is no different to the last 6 seasons.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 14, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			He's never been on loan at Sunderland mate, they signed him directly from Toronto.
		
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Didn't know that, thought he was a loan player, or at least initially.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 14, 2016)

fundy said:



			Arsenal got a draw despite the initial set up not because of it. Ospina had a blinder and Cavani an utter shocker, Ibra wouldve scored 3 maybe 4 in Cavani's shoes last night.

A very lucky point papers over cracks that nothing has changed and that we wont be competing with the best in the CL yet again.

Giving Wenger credit for last night is frankly laughable imo, best you could give him is he corrected some of his initial mistakes
		
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Very fair, I'd love any of the English teams to win the CL or EL, but as you say last night was a lucky point.


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## stokie_93 (Sep 14, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Didn't know that, thought he was a loan player, or at least initially.
		
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He had a month loan at Spurs after moving to Toronto I think then Sunderland signed him.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 14, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Aren't judging them against 5 worse teams, just think he'll get them solid and getting results. Not getting a win in the first few games is no different to the last 6 seasons.
		
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Problem is that they look poor and so to stay up, like past years, they are relying on teams being worse than them rather than them being better than other teams. I agree he will tighten them up but I'm not sure the players he has are up to it.
Where are the goals outside of Defoe? It is one thing to rev up a team for a relegation battle at the end of a season, it is another to get a poor bunch going from the start. Plenty of managers have come in recently and saved them only to be sacked half way through the next season. 

I see West Brom being down there, Burnley and Hull will not be far off but I don't see any of those having a total nightmare.

I have seen the stat about not winning in Aug/Sept since 2012 but you can't keep doing that and hope to get away with it.


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## stokie_93 (Sep 14, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I see West Brom being down there, Burnley and Hull will not be far off but I don't see any of those having a total nightmare.

.
		
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see us being down there too!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 14, 2016)

It's way too early to judge, once he's got the players buying into how he works they'll kick on.


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## sawtooth (Sep 14, 2016)

I fancy having a tenner on Monaco tonight at 4/1

Spurs might find it difficult at Wembley and Monaco arguably best team in France atm.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 14, 2016)

French league is pants,PSG will have it in the bag by xmas.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 14, 2016)

Poor defending by  Spurs, that cross has got to be stopped.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 14, 2016)

Game on at Wembley now Spurs have scored. Wonder if they can turn it around and we can get an English clean sweep tonight. Great effort out the blocks by Leicester


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## Tashyboy (Sep 14, 2016)

I have waited a long time to see football like that.

well done Citeh.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 14, 2016)

Good results for City and Leicester tonight, disappointed with Spurs result, hopefully not to much damage in the long run.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 14, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Good results for City and Leicester tonight, disappointed with Spurs result, hopefully not to much damage in the long run.
		
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Shame for Spurs but as long as they can win their other home games and get some points away they'll be fine. They need to be better than tonight though.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 14, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Good results for City and Leicester tonight, disappointed with Spurs result, hopefully not to much damage in the long run.
		
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I thought Leicester would've struggled, great result though.

Spurs were poor, the atmosphere sounded very flat too.


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## davemc1 (Sep 14, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I fancy having a tenner on Monaco tonight at 4/1

Spurs might find it difficult at Wembley and Monaco arguably best team in France atm.
		
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Good call! Hope you got your bet on :thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 14, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I thought Leicester would've struggled, great result though.

Spurs were poor, the atmosphere sounded very flat too.
		
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They started the 2nd half really bright then ran out of steam. Definitely didn't seem to make the noise of 85,000 fans.


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## sawtooth (Sep 14, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Good call! Hope you got your bet on :thup:
		
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Â£25 on in the end, I could have done without the goal in the last minute of the 1st half it did make me sweat a bit. 

Arsenal found it difficult at the old Wembley even though we filled it with fans (as Spurs did tonight) its just not the same as playing at home and the away side might also raise their game playing at a venue like that.


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## GG26 (Sep 14, 2016)

Looking forward to Porto at the King Power in two weeks.  Couldn't have asked for a better start.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 14, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			He had a month loan at Spurs after moving to Toronto I think then Sunderland signed him.
		
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Know all.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 14, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			see us being down there too!
		
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Nar, stoke will be fine, you've ot too much class in your team.

You just need to get used to the new grappling laws, then you'll be fine.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 14, 2016)

GG26 said:



			Looking forward to Porto at the King Power in two weeks.  Couldn't have asked for a better start. 

Click to expand...

Until you see the diving and playacting.

I find the Portuguese the worst for it in Europe.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 15, 2016)

Well that went well.

Good to see Depay and Young get a cameo would be good to see them maybe get back into the fold.


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## user2010 (Sep 15, 2016)

Ha ha ha Manure beaten again megalolz.:rofl::thup::whoo:


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 15, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Well that went well.

Good to see Depay and Young get a cameo would be good to see them maybe get back into the fold.
		
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Anyone want an Argentinan left back? LB, stu?


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 15, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Anyone want an Argentinan left back? LB, stu?
		
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Only if its a swap deal for our one,and it also includes Mignolet.

You cant say we're not generous.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 15, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Anyone want an Argentinan left back? LB, stu?
		
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:rofl:

When's Pogba getting a start??


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 15, 2016)

Is it only Man Utd and Southampton in the Europa league this season? I thought we'd have more teams in it than that. I know West Ham got knocked out before the group stages but did anyone else not make it?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 15, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Is it only Man Utd and Southampton in the Europa league this season? I thought we'd have more teams in it than that. I know West Ham got knocked out before the group stages but did anyone else not make it?
		
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Only get 3 places this season plus those that drop down from CL later on.
We didn't get a Fair Play Place


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## Tashyboy (Sep 15, 2016)

Stumbled across MUTV and listening to them talk about there defeat. The united fans were not happy with the performance at all. Ron Atkinson and David May were the people in the chair. It was embarrassing listening to the lame excuses from them both. Not to dissimilar to a lot of Man yoo fans.

Brilliant.

Big Ron, City only have to drop a level and us kick on and we will be as good as them. Right oh Ron.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 15, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Stumbled across MUTV and listening to them talk about there defeat. The united fans were not happy with the performance at all. Ron Atkinson and David May were the people in the chair. It was embarrassing listening to the lame excuses from them both. Not to dissimilar to a lot of Man yoo fans.

Brilliant.

Big Ron, City only have to drop a level and us kick on and we will be as good as them. Right oh Ron.
		
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What is it they say about pride before a fall.......

last season people were claiming Chelsea had the League sewn up after 5 games.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 16, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Stumbled across MUTV and listening to them talk about there defeat. The united fans were not happy with the performance at all. Ron Atkinson and David May were the people in the chair. It was embarrassing listening to the lame excuses from them both. Not to dissimilar to a lot of Man yoo fans.

Brilliant.

Big Ron, City only have to drop a level and us kick on and we will be as good as them. Right oh Ron.
		
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you sure your not a secret red you seem to have MUTV on a lot?   :rofl:


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 16, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			:rofl:

When's Pogba getting a start??
		
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conspiracy time    we have had a couple of dubious (at best!) decisions against us the last 2 games.........


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## Kellfire (Sep 16, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Anyone want an Argentinan left back? LB, stu?
		
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Rojo isn't a left back though, he was played out of position. He's a left sided CB, best suited to playing in a three. Not that I'm saying he's good enough, he was a failed experiment it seems.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 16, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			conspiracy time    we have had a couple of dubious (at best!) decisions against us the last 2 games.........
		
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Haha, to be fair it was a shocking decision not to flag for offside, it was blatant and in front of the liner.  

But then Yernited can't complain about dodgy decisions with their previous


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 16, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha, to be fair it was a shocking decision not to flag for offside, it was blatant and in front of the liner.  

But then Yernited can't complain about *dodgy decisions with their previous *

Click to expand...

I don't know what you mean? 

are you trying to say Baiily should of tackled the CF "Bravo" style? :mmm:


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## Fish (Sep 16, 2016)

Big game tonight, Terry is out so Luiz makes his debut return which is a little bit of a concern as I don't see him as a CB, unless he has changed his wandering ways?

Chelsea has only lost once in their last 8 PL matches against Liverpool and if Chelsea win, it will be the 27th home win in this fixture in the PL (currently 13 each) - no PL fixture has had more, so possibly we'll be making even more new history tonight :smirk:

The ref unfortunately will be key as I expect just like at the weekend, Costa will have lumps kicked out of him early doors looking to get and goading for a reaction


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## Stuart_C (Sep 16, 2016)

Fish said:



			Big game tonight, Terry is out so Luiz makes his debut return which is a little bit of a concern as I don't see him as a CB, unless he has changed his wandering ways?

Chelsea has only lost once in their last 8 PL matches against Liverpool and if Chelsea win, it will be the 27th home win in this fixture in the PL (currently 13 each) - no PL fixture has had more, so possibly we'll be making even more new history tonight :smirk:

The ref unfortunately will be key as I expect just like at the weekend, Costa will have lumps kicked out of him early doors looking to get and goading for a reaction 

Click to expand...

And Costa will play fairly won't he


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## Hobbit (Sep 16, 2016)

Fish said:



			Big game tonight, Terry is out so Luiz makes his debut return which is a little bit of a concern as I don't see him as a CB, unless he has changed his wandering ways?

Chelsea has only lost once in their last 8 PL matches against Liverpool and if Chelsea win, it will be the 27th home win in this fixture in the PL (currently 13 each) - no PL fixture has had more, so possibly we'll be making even more new history tonight :smirk:

The ref unfortunately will be key as I expect just like at the weekend, Costa will have lumps kicked out of him early doors looking to get and goading for a reaction 

Click to expand...

Looking forward to it. Both managers have the teams playing well. A draw?

also looking forward to Boro's game against Everton tomorrow. I'd be happy with a draw, especially as Koeman appears to have Everton playing well.


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## Evesdad (Sep 16, 2016)

GG26 said:



			Looking forward to Porto at the King Power in two weeks.  Couldn't have asked for a better start. 

Click to expand...

I've been trying to call in favours with everyone I know with a box!


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 16, 2016)

I've always said Henderson is rubbish. Can't believe he just shinned that one in from 30 yards.


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## anotherdouble (Sep 16, 2016)

Inept and lifeless. Shocking display so far.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 16, 2016)

Costa looks isolated up front, LPools midfield got the upper hand, interesting 2nd half ahead.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 16, 2016)

That's a pretty big win early season :whoo:

Some impressive performances out there tonight


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## Stuart_C (Sep 16, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That's a pretty big win early season :whoo:

Some impressive performances out there tonight
		
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Not really, we only beat a mid table side.

On a side note, how disappointed did Martin Tyler sound when Henderson scored?? He sounded like he was gonna cry.


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## Old Skier (Sep 16, 2016)

Fish said:



			Chelsea has only lost once in their last 8 PL matches against Liverpool and if Chelsea win, it will be the 27th home win in this fixture in the PL (currently 13 each) - no PL fixture has had more, so possibly we'll be making even more new history tonight :smirk:


Click to expand...

Was a bit like a Homer prediction.


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## anotherdouble (Sep 16, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Not really, we only beat a mid table side.

On a side note, how disappointed did Martin Tyler sound when Henderson scored?? He sounded like he was gonna cry.
		
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I am sorry to say but that wasn't even a mid table performance. Every department lacked any idea. One sorry display. See if they can pick it up Tuesday night


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 16, 2016)

Feeling quite dizzy being this far up the table, and all thanks to our loveable neighbours :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 16, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Not really, we only beat a mid table side.

On a side note, how disappointed did Martin Tyler sound when Henderson scored?? He sounded like he was gonna cry.
		
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He will always be a bitter Manc 

Was a quality strike - Winaljdum in the middle is being quietly effect , Mane dangerous again but Matip was impressive once again. Just got to get Karius in


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## Stuart_C (Sep 16, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He will always be a bitter Manc 

Was a quality strike - Winaljdum in the middle is being quietly effect , Mane dangerous again but Matip was impressive once again. Just got to get Karius in
		
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Matip should've stayed on his feet, we gifted them their goal.

Winaljdum played well but I'm not too sure he's going to be the answer in CM long term.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 16, 2016)

I've watched them a couple of times so far this season and they've been playing quite well. What do Liverpool fans think is a realistic aim for this season? A title challenge? Top 4? Top 6? I'm meaning what do you think WILL happen rather than what you hope COULD happen.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 16, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			I've watched them a couple of times so far this season and they've been playing quite well. What do Liverpool fans think is a realistic aim for this season? A title challenge? Top 4? Top 6? I'm meaning what do you think WILL happen rather than what you hope COULD happen.
		
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Think Top 4 is realistic aim this year 

Think City are going to stroll the league and below them you have 5 teams fighting for 3 spots


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## Stuart_C (Sep 16, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			I've watched them a couple of times so far this season and they've been playing quite well. What do Liverpool fans think is a realistic aim for this season? A title challenge? Top 4? Top 6? I'm meaning what do you think WILL happen rather than what you hope COULD happen.
		
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Win the league.


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## davemc1 (Sep 16, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Win the league.
		
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Ditto


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 16, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			I've watched them a couple of times so far this season and they've been playing quite well. What do Liverpool fans think is a realistic aim for this season? A title challenge? Top 4? Top 6? I'm meaning what do you think WILL happen rather than what you hope COULD happen.
		
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We have an attacking prowess that could finish in the top 3, we have defensive weaknesses that  mean we could finish 6-7.

Not being in Europe should mean we are somewhere around 3-5th.Who knows, though?


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## Papas1982 (Sep 16, 2016)

havent seen much of Karius, but if he comes in and is any good. The. The top 4 may be an outside bet, top six more likely. 

ATM, even this early Liverpool ship too many goals for me and their one proven scorer isn't firing yet. 

Theyve had some good results so far and beaten teams considered rivals. But I still think the finances of Chelsea, city and Utd along with the dependable arsenal and improving Spurs will have Liverpool contesting for the final europa spot.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 16, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Win the league.
		
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davemc1 said:



			Ditto
		
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Are you serious that you really think that Liverpool can win the league? Or is that just the blind optimism that comes from supporting your team?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Are you serious that you really think that Liverpool can win the league? Or is that just the blind optimism that comes from supporting your team?
		
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Yes.

keeping players fit is key to being successful.  We've had a tough start to this season Spurs, Arsenal,Leicester, Chelsea and we've been the The better side  in each of them. 

The burnley result was a freak result but we need to stop making stupid individual mistakes because at the momment they're being punished.

There's no blind optimism here.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			We have an attacking prowess that could finish in the top 3, we have defensive weaknesses that  mean we could finish 6-7.

Not being in Europe should mean we are somewhere around 3-5th.Who knows, though?
		
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Ay Sin, another Lallana assist make sure you add it to your stats chart.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 17, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			And Costa will play fairly won't he

Click to expand...

Well why don't we try not kicking lumps out of him & see what happens?  



anotherdouble said:



			Inept and lifeless. Shocking display so far.
		
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Pretty much sums it up.


Liverpoolphil said:



			That's a pretty big win early season :whoo:

Some impressive performances out there tonight
		
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Really?  Trolling again Phil?  



Stuart_C said:



			Not really, we only beat a mid table side.
		
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Sadly we weren't even that good. 



anotherdouble said:



			I am sorry to say but that wasn't even a mid table performance. Every department lacked any idea. One sorry display. See if they can pick it up Tuesday night
		
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Spot on again.  The only ray of light was that Luiz looked a better defender than the player that left, assuming that we actually bought him for defensive dutiesâ€¦..  Worst thing about it was that we weren't so much outplayed as outfought and outworked, which is unforgivable.  We were actually that bad that we made Mignolet look competent.



Stuart_C said:



			Win the league.
		
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davemc1 said:



			Ditto
		
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:rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Well why don't we try not kicking lumps out of him & see what happens?  

Click to expand...

That didn't happen last night.

Costa gives it just as much as he gets it, he's hardly innocent.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 17, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Well why don't we try not kicking lumps out of him & see what happens?  



Pretty much sums it up.


Really?  Trolling again Phil?  



Sadly we weren't even that good. 



Spot on again.  The only ray of light was that Luiz looked a better defender than the player that left, assuming that we actually bought him for defensive dutiesâ€¦..  Worst thing about it was that we weren't so much outplayed as outfought and outworked, which is unforgivable.  We were actually that bad that we made Mignolet look competent.





:rofl::rofl::rofl:
		
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How the hell can you accuse me of trolling because of that post ?!? That is utterly pathetic 

It is a pretty big win to beat a team supposedly one of the favourites for the title on the home ground and there was some impressive performances from some players last night 

Just smacks of sour grapes


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 17, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			That didn't happen last night.
		
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And did he play fair?  So there's your answer then.


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## Hobbit (Sep 17, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How the hell can you accuse me of trolling because of that post ?!? That is utterly pathetic 

It is a pretty big win to beat a team supposedly one of the favourites for the title on the home ground and there was some impressive performances from some players last night 

Just smacks of sour grapes
		
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Was it a big win or an easy win? I was really looking forward to a good game but... Liverpool played less rubbish than Chelsea.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			And did he play fair?  So thee's your answer then. 

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So it's everybody else's fault? Poor Costa :rofl:

Chelsea  hardly had the ball in the final 3rd for him to get near our defence.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Was it a big win or an easy win? I was really looking forward to a good game but... Liverpool played less rubbish than Chelsea.
		
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Would you have said the same had the result been the other way round?

Not many teams will got to Chelsea and dominate for as long as we did last night. Regardless of how poor Chelsea were,  we were excellent and played some great stuff.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 17, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How the hell can you accuse me of trolling because of that post ?!? That is utterly pathetic 

It is a pretty big win to beat a team supposedly one of the favourites for the title on the home ground and there was some impressive performances from some players last night 

Just smacks of sour grapes
		
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That'll be the post that you haven't requoted thenâ€¦â€¦â€¦.. 

Sour grapes?  You couldn't make it up. :rofl:  We got exactly what we deserved out of that performance, but we are nowhere near favourites for the title, we still have too much of last season's dead wood.  I'd like to know who has supposedly made us favourites for the title, but we are nowhere near that and hanging your hat on that performance as a pretty big win is utterly laughable.  

I acknowledged that you completely outworked & outfought us, yet as utterly pathetic as we were, we got one back and were more likely to get an equaliser that you were to close it out as a good team should have done.  Against a team one of your fellow Scousers accurately describes as mid table.

Am I unhappy?  Yes, but with my own team's performance.  Am I quaking in my boots at the second coming of the mighty Liverpool?  Oh do get over yourself Phil, your lot weren't that good.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 17, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Was it a big win or an easy win? I was really looking forward to a good game but... Liverpool played less rubbish than Chelsea.
		
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Is the correct answer. :thup:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			That'll be the post that you haven't requoted thenâ€¦â€¦â€¦.. 

Sour grapes?  You couldn't make it up. :rofl:  We got exactly what we deserved out of that performance, but we are nowhere near favourites for the title, we still have too much of last season's dead wood.  I'd like to know who has supposedly made us favourites for the title, but we are nowhere near that and hanging your hat on that performance as a pretty big win is utterly laughable.  

I acknowledged that you completely outworked & outfought us, yet as utterly pathetic as we were, *we got one back and were more likely to get an equaliser that you were to close it out as a good team should have done.  Against a team one of your fellow Scousers accurately describes as mid table.*

Am I unhappy?  Yes, but with my own team's performance.  Am I quaking in my boots at the second coming of the mighty Liverpool?  Oh do get over yourself Phil, your lot weren't that good.
		
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Chelsea were gifted that goal and I can't remember them having another clear chance. Only a great save from Courtois stopped us from " closing it out as a good team should". I'd say we closed the game out rather professionally but then that's only my opinion not  a fact.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 17, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Chelsea were gifted that goal and I can't remember them having another clear chance. Only a great save from Courtois stopped us from " closing it out as a good team should". I'd say we closed the game out rather professionally but then that's only my opinion not  a fact.
		
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A bit like you were gifted your opener thenâ€¦â€¦â€¦.?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			A bit like you were gifted your opener thenâ€¦â€¦â€¦.?
		
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Nothing like it......


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 17, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes.

keeping players fit is key to being successful.  We've had a tough start to this season Spurs, Arsenal,Leicester, Chelsea and we've been the The better side  in each of them. 

The burnley result was a freak result but we need to stop making stupid individual mistakes because at the momment they're being punished.

There's no blind optimism here.
		
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You''re not really any further forward than last seasons results against the same teams, you beat Chelsea and Leicester and drew with Spurs, 2 points gained from Arsenal but 3 dropped at Burnley so you could be 5 points better but instead 1 worse off.
Think you''ll fighting 6th-4th but winners :rofl: :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			You''re not really any further forward than last seasons results against the same teams, you beat Chelsea and Leicester and drew with Spurs, 2 points gained from Arsenal but 3 dropped at Burnley so you could be 5 points better but instead 1 worse off.
Think you''ll fighting 6th-4th but winners :rofl: :rofl:
		
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Of course we are, we haven't got a manager bluffing his way through games :rofl:

Klopp has also had a pre season with the players and they look a lot fitter than this time last season.

The league doesn't matter til after 10games or Xmas (depending on were we are at that time  )


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 17, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Of course we are, we haven't got a manager bluffing his way through games :rofl:

Klopp has also had a pre season with the players and they look a lot fitter than this time last season.

The league doesn't matter til after 10games or Xmas (depending on were we are at that time  )

Click to expand...

That's better mate, the small print is all that matters, can't blame you for getting carried away. Nice to see you've woke up with red stinted specs on the bedside table.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			That's better mate, the small print is all that matters, can't blame you for getting carried away. Nice to see you've woke up with red stinted specs on the bedside table. 

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I sleep in them :rofl:


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## Hobbit (Sep 17, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Chelsea were gifted that goal and I can't remember them having another clear chance. Only a great save from Courtois stopped us from " closing it out as a good team should". I'd say we closed the game out rather professionally but then that's only my opinion not  a fact.
		
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Different second half than the one I saw. Chelsea had some decent periods of pressure and Liverpool were lucky to hang on.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Different second half than the one I saw. Chelsea had some decent periods of pressure and Liverpool were lucky to hang on.
		
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Chelsea saw much more of the ball I agree but they never done anything with it or made Mignolet work. 

Not many teams go away to Chelsea and dominate for as long as we did. Usually they have 10/15 mins per half but it was the opposite last night. We controlled the game for much of that game last night IMO.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 17, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Chelsea saw much more of the ball I agree but they never done anything with it or made Mignolet work. 

Not many teams go away to Chelsea and dominate for as long as we did. Usually they have 10/15 mins per half but it was the opposite last night. We controlled the game for much of that game last night IMO.
		
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Unfortunately I agree.
Chelsea never got going in the 1st half,bettter 2nd half but still not great. 
Struggled to get Costa into the game & Hazard was average by his standards. 

Ivanovic had a shocker & behaved like a knob on a couple of occasions. 
I still dont think Cahill is good enough.


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## sawtooth (Sep 17, 2016)

A good win from Liverpool but I wouldn't call them title contenders after just 5 games.  

At the moment Liverpool are giving teams a lesson in work rate and seem to win the games in the first 45-60 mins through sheer work rate and high intensity. It looks to me like this level though cant be sustained through 90 mins which might explain why teams come back into it a bit after Liverpool have shot their bolt. I might be wrong but that's how it looked last night and when Liverpool played us.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 17, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			That'll be the post that you haven't requoted thenâ€¦â€¦â€¦.. 

Sour grapes?  You couldn't make it up. :rofl:  We got exactly what we deserved out of that performance, but we are nowhere near favourites for the title, we still have too much of last season's dead wood.  I'd like to know who has supposedly made us favourites for the title, but we are nowhere near that and hanging your hat on that performance as a pretty big win is utterly laughable.  

I acknowledged that you completely outworked & outfought us, yet as utterly pathetic as we were, we got one back and were more likely to get an equaliser that you were to close it out as a good team should have done.  Against a team one of your fellow Scousers accurately describes as mid table.

Am I unhappy?  Yes, but with my own team's performance.  Am I quaking in my boots at the second coming of the mighty Liverpool?  Oh do get over yourself Phil, your lot weren't that good.
		
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I didn't say anything about any second coming or anything in connection to suggesting that. 

Likely to get an equaliser ? I think there was one shot which went straight at Mignolet but beyond that can't remember anything else threatening ? If anything the best chance fell to us which required the best save of the night from Mignolet 

And yes for me it's a pretty big win away from home and yes there were some impressive performances on the night, believe you would have gone top with a win last night - I would like to know how saying that makes it trolling ?!?


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 17, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Win the league.
		
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No I won't say it ....


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## sawtooth (Sep 17, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			No I won't say it .... 

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Go on say it &#128578;


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			No I won't say it .... 

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I can smell the fear :rofl:


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 17, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I didn't say anything about any second coming or anything in connection to suggesting that. 

Likely to get an equaliser ? I think there was one shot which went straight at Mignolet but beyond that can't remember anything else threatening ? If anything the best chance fell to us which required the best save of the night from Mignolet 

And yes for me it's a pretty big win away from home and yes there were some impressive performances on the night, believe you would have gone top with a win last night - I would like to know how saying that makes it trolling ?!?
		
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You've bigged up your win beyond all belief.  We are never title contenders this season having done barely anything to address the issues we had in the squad yet you have claimed us up to be with no basis in fact whatsoever; the majority of experts that I saw were suggesting top 6 would be an achievement after last season, maybe top 4 as the lack of European football would help.  Yes we would have gone top with a win last night having played West Ham, Watford, Burnley, Swansea and Liverpool, the majority of whom you'd expect to find in the lower reaches of the final table, not fighting for European places.  

Dress up a deserved win against a team that didn't show up all you like, but to suggest that was a pretty big win with some impressive performances is you, as usual, on the wind up.  Frankly we were an embarrassment to the badge, the Dog & Duck 11 would have put up a better show than we did last night and you're kidding yourself if you think different.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 17, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			You've bigged up your win beyond all belief.  We are never title contenders this season having done barely anything to address the issues we had in the squad yet you have claimed us up to be with no basis in fact whatsoever; the majority of experts that I saw were suggesting top 6 would be an achievement after last season, maybe top 4 as the lack of European football would help.  Yes we would have gone top with a win last night having played West Ham, Watford, Burnley, Swansea and Liverpool, the majority of whom you'd expect to find in the lower reaches of the final table, not fighting for European places.  

Dress up a deserved win against a team that didn't show up all you like, but to suggest that was a pretty big win with some impressive performances is you, as usual, on the wind up.  Frankly we were an embarrassment to the badge, the Dog & Duck 11 would have put up a better show than we did last night and you're kidding yourself if you think different.
		
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Don't rise to it,he knows what he's doing.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			A good win from Liverpool but I wouldn't call them title contenders after just 5 games.  

At the moment Liverpool are giving teams a lesson in work rate and seem to win the games in the first 45-60 mins through sheer work rate and high intensity. It looks to me like this level though cant be sustained through 90 mins which might explain why teams come back into it a bit after Liverpool have shot their bolt. I might be wrong but that's how it looked last night and when Liverpool played us.
		
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Without work rate you don't win games and that is a fact. Yes we're working harder but we're also using space better and our passing looks a lot sharper.  The players look fitter than last season and we're not blowing after 60minutes.

Time will tell whether or not we're tittle contenders but one things for sure if on current form Arsenal are then Liverpool should be too.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 17, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			You've bigged up your win beyond all belief.  We are never title contenders this season having done barely anything to address the issues we had in the squad yet you have claimed us up to be with no basis in fact whatsoever; the majority of experts that I saw were suggesting top 6 would be an achievement after last season, maybe top 4 as the lack of European football would help.  Yes we would have gone top with a win last night having played West Ham, Watford, Burnley, Swansea and Liverpool, the majority of whom you'd expect to find in the lower reaches of the final table, not fighting for European places.  

Dress up a deserved win against a team that didn't show up all you like, but to suggest that was a pretty big win with some impressive performances is you, as usual, on the wind up.  Frankly we were an embarrassment to the badge, the Dog & Duck 11 would have put up a better show than we did last night and you're kidding yourself if you think different.
		
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Sorry but the constant suggestions of trolling and winding up just because I think it was a pretty big is poor 

Last night the experts on sky were calling it a big win and impressive performance -are they also on the wind up or trolling ?! They highlighted Henderson being impressive and Matip and also Mane 

But having an opinion that is differing from you doesn't mean I'm trolling or trying to wind up anyone 

I think last night was a pretty big win for us and there was some impressive performances from some players - if you believe you are being wound up by that then the problem is with you


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## Papas1982 (Sep 17, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Without work rate you don't win games and that is a fact. Yes we're working harder but we're also using space better and our passing looks a lot sharper.  The players look fitter than last season and we're not blowing after 60minutes.

*Time will tell whether or not we're tittle contenders but one things for sure if on current form Arsenal are then Liverpool should be too.*

Click to expand...

Personally don't think either are. Far too early in a season for teams with no creditable title challenges in recent seasons to be expeccted to maintain. People didnt genuinely believe in leciester until about 33 games down. Whilst there are causes for optimism, I think the flawed defence and lack of goal scorer will be the downfall of both teams. With one (I'd back arsenal) making top four. 

Both full of very good players, but neither IMO have a roll your sleeves up cm, or good enough striker. It looks to me that Liverpool, could easily become the arensal of the last decade. Lots of good attacking players with similar characteristics, but no main man up front.


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## sawtooth (Sep 17, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Without work rate you don't win games and that is a fact. Yes we're working harder but we're also using space better and our passing looks a lot sharper.  The players look fitter than last season and we're not blowing after 60minutes.

Time will tell whether or not we're tittle contenders but one things for sure if on current form Arsenal are then Liverpool should be too.
		
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But if you look at the games against Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea you would've lost the games if they started at the hour mark.

It will be interesting to see if this trend continues but to me , so far at least , it looks like Liverpool go out all guns blazing and weaken as the game goes on. 

I didn't watch the Burnley game but my guess is that they may have nullified Liverpool by matching their work ethic - something Arsenal , Spurs and Chelsea failed to do.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Personally don't think either are. Far too early in a season for teams with no creditable title challenges in recent seasons to be expeccted to maintain. People didnt genuinely believe in leciester until about 33 games down. Whilst there are causes for optimism, I think the flawed defence and lack of goal scorer will be the downfall of both teams. With one (I'd back arsenal) making top four. 

Both full of very good players, but neither IMO have a roll your sleeves up cm, or good enough striker. It looks to me that Liverpool, could easily become the arensal of the last decade. Lots of good attacking players with similar characteristics, but no main man up front.
		
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I must've missed Arsenal's credible tittle challenge's over the last 5 seasons or so. 

Defensively we need consistency and I think with Lovren and Matip as the central pairing that'll improve. Better than Skrtel/Toure that's for sure.

Sturridge is capable of 20+goals a season, I just  don't think we can rely on him.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 17, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I must've missed Arsenal's credible tittle challenge's over the last 5 seasons or so. 

Defensively we need consistency and I think with Lovren and Matip as the central pairing that'll improve. Better than Skrtel/Toure that's for sure.

Sturridge is capable of 20+goals a season, I just  don't think we can rely on him.
		
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It may not have been clear, but I was saying you were both as unlikely IMO to win the title as neither of you are near title challengers. 

The reason I implied they may finish fourth ahead of you is because they have shown repeatedly to have a knack for finishing there. 

As to sturridge, great ability that he has. He's as safe a bet for 20 goals a season as wilshere is for that many appearances.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

sawtooth said:



*But if you look at the games against Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea you would've lost the games if they started at the hour mark*.

It will be interesting to see if this trend continues but to me , so far at least , it hlooks like Liverpool go out all guns blazing and weaken as the game goes on. 

I didn't watch the Burnley game but my guess is that they may have nullified Liverpool by matching their work ethic - something Arsenal , Spurs and Chelsea failed to do.
		
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Hahaha are you for real with that comment?

We never weakened as the game went on, we were away from home against a side with very good players in it, no team goes away from home to Chelsea, Arsenal,Yernited,city,Spurs etc and dominates from the 1st whistle to the last. It does not happen.

The burnley game was IMO a freak result, the 2goals came from 2 very poor  individual mistakes and we got punished. Created loads of chances and never took them. It happens to every side, you just have to accept it and move on.

I don't know how we're expected to play, but at the minute it's working.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 17, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			But if you look at the games against Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea you would've lost the games if they started at the hour mark.

It will be interesting to see if this trend continues but to me , so far at least , it looks like Liverpool go out all guns blazing and weaken as the game goes on. 

I didn't watch the Burnley game but my guess is that they may have nullified Liverpool by matching their work ethic - something Arsenal , Spurs and Chelsea failed to do.
		
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Let's be honest, I hope LPool implode and get relegated, but is that post a wind up, surely your opening sentence says more about those 3 teams than LPool.

Putting them at fault for dominating teams away from home for only 60 minutes.

More to the point, why do they look at the Burnley game as a freak result, maybe that's the real LPool, recent seasons have shown they can get results against the big teams and fail to show up for the lesser teams.


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## sawtooth (Sep 17, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Hahaha are you for real with that comment?

We never weakened as the game went on, we were away from home against a side with very good players in it, no team goes away from home to Chelsea, Arsenal,Yernited,city,Spurs etc and dominates from the 1st whistle to the last. It does not happen.

The burnley game was IMO a freak result, the 2goals came from 2 very poor  individual mistakes and we got punished. Created loads of chances and never took them. It happens to every side, you just have to accept it and move on.

I don't know how we're expected to play, but at the minute it's working.
		
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I'm not suggesting that you are meant to go to those grounds and dominate the whole game. That's not my point at all.

I'm suggesting that Klopp places a lot of emphasis on pressing, running, closing down, etc When you do this you over run teams and get a lot of success. 

My theory is that as the game goes on it becomes less effective and allows the opponents to come back into the game.

Not saying it's right or wrong but just how it looks to me.

It's perhaps no coincidence that the team to beat Liverpool was Burnley. No disrespect to them but their biggest chance of getting something from the game was to work as hard as Liverpool.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Let's be honest, I hope LPool implode and get relegated, but is that post a wind up, surely your opening sentence says more about those 3 teams than LPool.

Putting them at fault for dominating teams away from home for only 60 minutes.

More to the point, why do they look at the Burnley game as a freak result, maybe that's the real LPool, recent seasons have shown they can get results against the big teams and fail to show up for the lesser teams.
		
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If only we could play the big teams and Everton -guaranteed 6points - we'd definitely win the league :whoo: :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I'm not suggesting that you are meant to go to those grounds and dominate the whole game. That's not my point at all.

I'm suggesting that Klopp places a lot of emphasis on pressing, running, closing down, etc When you do this you over run teams and get a lot of success. 

My theory is that as the game goes on it becomes less effective and allows the opponents to come back into the game.

Not saying it's right or wrong but just how it looks to me.

It's perhaps no coincidence that the team to beat Liverpool was Burnley. No disrespect to them but their biggest chance of getting something from the game was to work as hard as Liverpool.
		
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How many times have you seen Arsenal dominate a game in all areas and lose?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 17, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			If only we could play the big teams and Everton -guaranteed 6points - we'd definitely win the league :whoo: :rofl:
		
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Nice deflection from the "freak" Burnley result, how dare a club like that beat you


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## pokerjoke (Sep 17, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			A good win from Liverpool but I wouldn't call them title contenders after just 5 games.  

At the moment Liverpool are giving teams a lesson in work rate and seem to win the games in the first 45-60 mins through sheer work rate and high intensity. It looks to me like this level though cant be sustained through 90 mins which might explain why teams come back into it a bit after Liverpool have shot their bolt. I might be wrong but that's how it looked last night and when Liverpool played us.
		
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Last season on many occasions Liverpool started a game pressing high up the pitch only to tire later so Klopp changed tactics in other games because it was impossible to keep it going with injuries and players coming back from injury and not being match fit.

I can see Liverpool playing the pressing game for a while yet but once again depending I suspect they will tire later in the season and adapt accordingly.

I thought Liverpool were good for the win last night but I was surprised how bad Chelsea were especially as the new manager would expect a lot more from his big players.

Its early doors but I would be surprised if Liverpool or Chelsea were anywhere near the title and both are playing for top 4 imo.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Nice deflection from the "freak" Burnley result, how dare a club like that beat you 

Click to expand...

I know, those two extra fingers the Keepers got was the difference..


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Last season on many occasions Liverpool started a game pressing high up the pitch only to tire later so Klopp changed tactics in other games because it was impossible to keep it going with injuries and players coming back from injury and not being match fit.

I can see Liverpool playing the pressing game for a while yet but once again depending I suspect they will tire later in the season and adapt accordingly.

I thought Liverpool were good for the win last night but I was surprised how bad Chelsea were especially as the new manager would expect a lot more from his big players.

Its early doors but I would be surprised if Liverpool or Chelsea were anywhere near the title and both are playing for top 4 imo.
		
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We are a lot fitter now than this time last season and that's what  Klopp needed. Time to work them, unfortunately he was expected to come straight in and turn a struggling side around whilst playing 3 games a week.

3pts in the bag and next week we play hull, yesterdays game has gone now regardless of how good we were or how poor Chelsea were.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 17, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			We are a lot fitter now than this time last season and that's what  Klopp needed. Time to work them, unfortunately he was expected to come straight in and turn a struggling side around whilst playing 3 games a week.

3pts in the bag and next week we play hull, yesterdays game has gone now regardless of how good we were or how poor Chelsea were.
		
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What's your strength in depth like Stu? 2 or 3 injuries in the wrong areas would knacker us.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			What's your strength in depth like Stu? 2 or 3 injuries in the wrong areas would knacker us.
		
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We have back in most areas - but most teams would struggle if they lost a couple in one specific area. CB could be the one issue to worry if Sahko is out of the picture at the moment


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 17, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but the constant suggestions of trolling and winding up just because I think it was a pretty big is poor 

Last night *the experts on sky were calling it a big win and impressive performance* -are they also on the wind up or trolling ?! They highlighted Henderson being impressive and Matip and also Mane 

But having an opinion that is differing from you doesn't mean I'm trolling or trying to wind up anyone 

I think last night was a pretty big win for us and there was some impressive performances from some players - if you believe you are being wound up by that then the problem is with you
		
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That's the two ex-Liverpool players and the Chelsea hating ex-Arsenal player on the balanced Sky panel was it?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 17, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			We have back in most areas - but most teams would struggle if they lost a couple in one specific area. CB could be the one issue to worry if Sahko is out of the picture at the moment
		
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I'd read Klopp had got rid of 14 players and brought in 6, wondered what the remaining quality was like.
Obviously didn't mean 2 or 3 injuries to the one area, across the board we'd struggle most.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I'd read Klopp had got rid of 14 players and brought in 6, wondered what the remaining quality was like.
Obviously didn't mean 2 or 3 injuries to the one area, across the board we'd struggle most.
		
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A lot of the 14 that went were not really involved or going to be - he has a smaller compact squad now which will be ok without Europe

For me I think we need two players - a strong DM and a top quality left back 

It's only 5 games so far so IMO it's too early to have any talk about titles or challenges etc but think that City will stroll to the title 

But I think the team has enough talent to be challenging for top 4 slot - there is lots of creativity , pace and even though it's been dismissed we have goals in the team. 

The big step forward would be the way the CB form a partnership - so far it's been really positive - Matip looks a quality player and on a bosman , Klavan looks a solid back and Lovren improves with every game 

Right now I'm enjoying watching the way we play - it's exciting and always look to move forward. 

Can only be positive about the start to the season - even more so when you look at the fixtures


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			What's your strength in depth like Stu? 2 or 3 injuries in the wrong areas would knacker us.
		
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LB is probably the biggest worry.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

Wenger buys a Â£35m midfielder then sit's him on the bench, great tactics


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## sawtooth (Sep 17, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Wenger buys a Â£35m midfielder then sit's him on the bench, great tactics 

Click to expand...

Thanks Stu it's nice to hear credit when it's due. Although Arsenal haven't won the game yet there's still an hour to play, but yes tactics seem to be working nicely so far. ;-)


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 17, 2016)

Bilic for England? &#128514;


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## fundy (Sep 17, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Wenger buys a Â£35m midfielder then sit's him on the bench, great tactics 

Click to expand...

if he cant dislodge coquelin from the team then he must have bought one helluva dud, that or coquelin really does have the intel on wenger lol


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

fundy said:



			if he cant dislodge coquelin from the team then he must have bought one helluva dud, that or coquelin really does have the intel on wenger lol
		
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It's a strange one,  if your paying Â£35m for a player you'd expect him to be in the starting line up.


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## sawtooth (Sep 17, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			It's a strange one,  if your paying Â£35m for a player you'd expect him to be in the starting line up.
		
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Why is it a strange one?  Coquelin would easily fetch Â£35M So would Cazorla, Ozil et al.

Xhaka was bought to strengthen the squad not the starting eleven.

And money does not represent a players quality anyway especially in this age of inflated prices.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 17, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			And money does not represent a players quality anyway especially in this age of inflated prices.
		
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Totally agree.....

60 Grand 60 Grand Seamus Coleman,
60 Grand 60 Grand I say,
60 Grand 60 Grand Seamus Coleman,
Playing football the Everton way.
:clap: :clap: :clap:


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 17, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Why is it a strange one?  Coquelin would easily fetch Â£35M So would Cazorla, Ozil et al.

Xhaka was bought to strengthen the squad not the starting eleven.

And money does not represent a players quality anyway especially in this age of inflated prices.
		
Click to expand...

Coquelin worth Â£35mil ?!? Seriously ? 

Since when did Arsenal start spending Â£35mil on a squad player ?

It seems Wenger isn't starting him yet until he gets ready for the pace of the Prem.

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...as-34m-midfielder-is-benched-vs-a3347431.html


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## Fish (Sep 17, 2016)

Everton will finish above Liverpool this season and L'pool with finish 6th at best. 

&#128540;


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 17, 2016)

Fish said:



			Everton will finish above Liverpool this season and L'pool with finish 6th at best. 

ðŸ˜œ
		
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Â£10 bet for H4H that we finish about Everton ?


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## Fish (Sep 17, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Â£10 bet for H4H that we finish about Everton ?
		
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Done


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## One Planer (Sep 17, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Coquelin worth Â£35mil ?!? Seriously ? 

Since when did Arsenal start spending Â£35mil on a squad player ?

It seems Wenger isn't starting him yet until he gets ready for the pace of the Prem.

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...as-34m-midfielder-is-benched-vs-a3347431.html

Click to expand...

I can think of other players signed for Â£35M that weren't/aren't worth 35p

A players value is as much as someone is willing to pay. 

Take Pogba as an example


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## Tashyboy (Sep 17, 2016)

It just gets better and better at the emptihead


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Why is it a strange one?  Coquelin would easily fetch Â£35M So would Cazorla, Ozil et al.

Xhaka was bought to strengthen the squad not the starting eleven.

And money does not represent a players quality anyway especially in this age of inflated prices.
		
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Have you been on them funny pills again? Coquelin would fetch Â£35m??:rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

Fish said:



			Everton will finish above Liverpool this season and L'pool with finish 6th at best. 

&#128540;
		
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6th would be progress.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 17, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Why is it a strange one?  Coquelin would easily fetch Â£35M So would Cazorla, Ozil et al.

Xhaka was bought to strengthen the squad not the starting eleven.

And money does not represent a players quality anyway especially in this age of inflated prices.
		
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WOW WOW WOW.

Those are some blinkers. 

Ozil would I agree.
The other two would barely fetch 35m between em!


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 17, 2016)

One Planer said:



			I can think of other players signed for Â£35M that weren't/aren't worth 35p

A players value is as much as someone is willing to pay. 

Take Pogba as an example
		
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Yes some players do go for more than they are worth but it's normally for a reason 

They score goals , they create goals , they play international football - three things that Coquelin doesn't do - he is a bit of a nothing player , a decent Prem player who someone would pay Â£15-20mil for


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 17, 2016)

OK it's only Boro (with respect to Boro fans) but Everton under Koeman seem more than revived and heading for second. Clearly, in the same way as it's too early to say Liverpool are title contenders as others have, it's too early to say how well they could do. Certainly the future on Merseyside looks very bright but I think both sides will need to add some depth in January to maintain the form all season. I have to say, I think Europa cup places for both would have to be a minimum, based on what I've seen so far. Whether that's achievable remains to be seen but really enjoying watching both Liverpool and Everton playing on the box this year


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## Fish (Sep 17, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			6th would be progress.
		
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It would, but I did say at best and I think you'll fall short again.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 17, 2016)

I'd still take anything 10th and up at this stage, great start to the season which hopefully we can going at least until we play City in a few weeks.
Boring, well controlled second half, much better performance over 90 minutes than monday night.
Still dizzy and there for another week......at least&#128515;


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

Fish said:



			It would, but I did say at best and I think you'll fall short again.
		
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I'll have a pint of what you've had :rofl: :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I'd still take anything 10th and up at this stage, great start to the season which hopefully we can going at least until we play City in a few weeks.
Boring, well controlled second half, much better performance over 90 minutes than monday night.
Still dizzy and there for another week......at least&#128515;
		
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The league doesn't matter til after 10 games 

That said, apart from Spurs you've not had to play any decent sides yet and probably would've been expected to beat them teams.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 17, 2016)

Fair enough but we lost to SLand and Soton last season, so that's were I see improvement. Winning breeds confidence&#128515;


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 17, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			OK it's only Boro (with respect to Boro fans) but Everton under Koeman seem more than revived and heading for second. Clearly, in the same way as it's too early to say Liverpool are title contenders as others have, it's too early to say how well they could do. Certainly the future on Merseyside looks very bright but I think both sides will need to add some depth in January to maintain the form all season. I have to say, I think Europa cup places for both would have to be a minimum, based on what I've seen so far. Whether that's achievable remains to be seen but really enjoying watching both Liverpool and Everton playing on the box this year
		
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At last a voice of reason (first time you've been accused of that Homer).

I watched the match last night in the boozer, so not the best place for judging tactics etc. Ive just watched the first half again, and whilst "live" felt we were fantastic, when watching it retrospectively we were very good, and 2-0 at Chelsea is still no mean feat, but not as impressive as I remember.

Yes, its not the Chelsea of the last 10 years, but any team going to Stamford bridge will still know its a tough place to get 3 points from, like Anfield, Highbury, Old Trafford is (despite varying lack of success over recent seasons). The crowd demand that at least a fight is put up. Chelsea didnt though, and possibly started on the back foot (whether manager-inspired tactics or, we just played great, we'll never know).

Chelsea do look like they have lost a lot of pace in the side, and only Hazard I would say has great pace (Willian has some, same with Kante). The substitutions were too late. 

We did "wobble" and we need to learn to keep the ball better, if that happens, and I also thought we were too passive when we did get in good positions in the 2nd half.

We "can" win the league, as also "can" 7 other teams, but I doubt we will. 

One thing I will say though, I think we will be the most entertained fans this season.We will be pulling our hair out at times, but unless we get a new keeper (or start playing Karius), and a new left back (although Milner is doing a great job so far) the league will still be a way off.

I think City, United will be in the top 2/3. One of Arsenal/Chelsea will get top 4, but I think we will be the other.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I'd still take anything 10th and up at this stage, great start to the season which hopefully we can going at least until we play City in a few weeks.
		
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I dont buy into this "1 place better than last season is progress", malarkey.

If the team have underperformed in the previous season, I dont think thats progress.

Chelsea finish champions, then tenth, so is 9th really progress with the squad that they have? They should still be aiming at 3rd or fourth. 

Everton were mis-managed last season, so should 1 place higher be seen as acceptable?

It also depends on what others do around you, but was West Ham's a freak season, Leicester too?

I think in the middle of the table, 3-4 places higher for good teams should be seen as progress. OK up the top is a bit harder, but one place higher for Chelsea and Everton - sorry should be expecting more.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 17, 2016)

Fish said:



			Done
		
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Well done Fish, willing to back your judgement with cash:thup:, unlike some who then give it the big un' then cry asking for odds etc........


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## fundy (Sep 17, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Why is it a strange one? * Coquelin would easily fetch Â£35M* So would Cazorla, Ozil et al.

*Xhaka was bought to strengthen the squad not the starting eleven.*

And money does not represent a players quality anyway especially in this age of inflated prices.
		
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do you actually read what you post lol or do you just write stuff that fits what Wenger is currently doing?

cant see anyone paying more than Â£20m for coquelin (and would be over priced at that), as for buying a Â£35m midfielder as a squad player ROFL would be the worst use of Â£35m ever

Ill have a large one of what youre drinking and a pair of the tinted glasses plse


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 17, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I dont buy into this "1 place better than last season is progress", malarkey.

If the team have underperformed in the previous season, I dont think thats progress.

Chelsea finish champions, then tenth, so is 9th really progress with the squad that they have? They should still be aiming at 3rd or fourth. 

Everton were mis-managed last season, so should 1 place higher be seen as acceptable?

It also depends on what others do around you, but was West Ham's a freak season, Leicester too?

I think in the middle of the table, 3-4 places higher for good teams should be seen as progress. OK up the top is a bit harder, but one place higher for Chelsea and Everton - sorry should be expecting more.
		
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Doesn't really matter what you buy into, the "experts" on BT Sport are talking about 7th or 8th being realistic, the difference 10th or 6th could be 1 or 2 games, so instead of being unrealistic I am happy to see progress on the pitch over a few seasons, the last 2 seasons were shocking, not just last season.
Obviously 1-9 would be better than 10th but don't want what we've had with Martinez 5th then 2 11's, In 2 seasons I'd like to see us as solid contenders for top 4 rather than the boom and bust.


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## sawtooth (Sep 17, 2016)

fundy said:



			do you actually read what you post lol or do you just write stuff that fits what Wenger is currently doing?

cant see anyone paying more than Â£20m for coquelin (and would be over priced at that), as for buying a Â£35m midfielder as a squad player ROFL would be the worst use of Â£35m ever

Ill have a large one of what youre drinking and a pair of the tinted glasses plse 

Click to expand...

Figure it out for yourself. Coquelin is keeping a Â£35M player out of the team. 

If Coquelin would leave it would cost Arsenal Â£35M at least to replace him with a player of equal or better ability. Not withstanding his age and international future with France. 

I make my own mind up and I believe Coquelin is an amazing player. Did you watch him against PSG the other week?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 17, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Figure it out for yourself. Coquelin is keeping a Â£35M player out of the team. 

If Coquelin would leave it would cost Arsenal Â£35M at least to replace him with a player of equal or better ability. Not withstanding his age and international future with France. 

I make my own mind up and I believe Coquelin is an amazing player. Did you watch him against PSG the other week?
		
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Amazing player ? Why isn't he in the French squad ? He is 25 with zero caps , he doesn't score goals , doesn't set up goals , picks up a lot of bookings 

The minute Wenger thinks Xhaka is ready he will be the team and Coquelin will be on the bench. Â£35mil player ?! Not in a million years

I know I post with Liverpool bias but you trump everyone but not with club bias but Wenger bias


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## fundy (Sep 17, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Figure it out for yourself. Coquelin is keeping a Â£35M player out of the team. 

If Coquelin would leave it would cost Arsenal Â£35M at least to replace him with a player of equal or better ability. Not withstanding his age and international future with France. 

I make my own mind up and I believe Coquelin is an amazing player. Did you watch him against PSG the other week?
		
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amazing player? clumsy holding midfielder, often booked early in games, not overly powerful or quick, doesnt create or score goals, doesnt lead or set the tempo, what does he do thats "amazing"? - think we may have to agree to disagree here lolol


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## Papas1982 (Sep 17, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Figure it out for yourself. Coquelin is keeping a Â£35M player out of the team. 

If Coquelin would leave it would cost Arsenal Â£35M at least to replace him with a player of equal or better ability. Not withstanding his age and international future with France. 

I make my own mind up and I believe Coquelin is an amazing player. Did you watch him against PSG the other week?
		
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Oh I do love this forum. Heskey once destroyed Germany and wilshere had a good game against barca once. Using one game to evaluate a player is foolish. 

If we go by your logic does that mean all players are simply valued by the rest on the bench? Barca coukd make a fortune benching Messi once in a while and then selling his replacement......


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Doesn't really matter what you buy into, the "experts" on BT Sport are talking about 7th or 8th being realistic, the difference 10th or 6th could be 1 or 2 games, so instead of being unrealistic I am happy to see progress on the pitch over a few seasons, the last 2 seasons were shocking, not just last season.
Obviously 1-9 would be better than 10th but don't want what we've had with Martinez 5th then 2 11's, In 2 seasons I'd like to see us as solid contenders for top 4 rather than the boom and bust.
		
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Ok then, would you feel progress had been made and Everton finishing tenth, amd lets say Swansea, Palace, Hull finished above you?


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## jp5 (Sep 17, 2016)

Quite some mental gymnastics to have to defend every decision of someone else!

Coquelin got the job done today and often does, lets not be silly and pretend him - or the nearly 32 year old cazorla - would be bought for Â£35 million


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 17, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			At last a voice of reason (first time you've been accused of that Homer).

Click to expand...

Careful, I'll be getting a reputation :rofl::cheers:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2016)

jp5 said:



			Quite some mental gymnastics to have to defend every decision of someone else!

Coquelin got the job done today and often does, lets not be silly and pretend him - or the nearly 32 year old cazorla - would be bought for Â£35 million
		
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Spot on


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 17, 2016)

Everton may not have played the top teams yet but you can only beat what's in front of you and they've done that. Winning builds confidence, it allows the new players to bed in and it sets us up for the tougher matches to come. It's not just that we've won but how we've won. Happy days at Goodison &#128588;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 17, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ok then, would you feel progress had been made and Everton finishing tenth, amd lets say Swansea, Palace, Hull finished above you?
		
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Doesn't matter who finishes above us, if they get more points then good luck to them, the table doesn't lie at the end of the season, My heart says we we can win the league, my head says be realistic 8-10 this season, following season 6-8 then 4-6,
We were 13 points of you's in 8th, massive gap to make up, but only 4 off 9th.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			We were 13 points of you's in 8th, massive gap to make up, but only 4 off 9th.
		
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Nothing counts until 10 games in.

Apart from Spurs on the opening day, your first 10 games arent the hardest I've ever seen (on paper), but the're all worth 3 points. You must have a glut of the bigger fish to come in the months after, I presume. That said I still think you can give anyone a game at Goodison, on your day.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 17, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Nothing counts until 10 games in.

Apart from Spurs on the opening day, your first 10 games arent the hardest I've ever seen (on paper), but the're all worth 3 points. You must have a glut of the bigger fish to come in the months after, I presume. That said I still think you can give anyone a game at Goodison, on your day.
		
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Exactly, but going on last season we lost some shockers, long way to go and after the misery of last season really don't want to get carried away, not sure we have another goalscorer if Lukaku gets injured, big bonus is Ashley Williams and Gueye.
Your issue like I said to Stu, you's have had no problem in recent seasons turning up for the big games (City last season etc) and failing with the lesser clubs.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Exactly, but going on last season we lost some shockers, long way to go and after the misery of last season really don't want to get carried away, not sure we have another goalscorer if Lukaku gets injured, big bonus is Ashley Williams and Gueye.
Your issue like I said to Stu, you's have had no problem in recent seasons turning up for the big games (City last season etc) and failing with the lesser clubs.
		
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Your right on Lukaku, as in, if he got injured.

Also on us against the lesser lights. The thing is the bigger teams will generally give you more space to play in, as they will always attack you. 

If I was a Hull,I would sit deep, pack the defence and look to hit us on the break, or just wait for set pieces against us, as we're still poor at defending them.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 17, 2016)

Pep seems to be getting a lot more out of Sterling.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 17, 2016)

I don't and never have rated Sterling but have to admit that some of what he did today was outstanding particularly one run with the ball that took him past 4 or 5 defenders. 

On another note the ref in the Arsenal v Hull game looked poor. Not convinced by the red card for the Hull player. Especially when the ref managed to do as much as possible not to send Cazorla off. And how he didn't see the penalty for Hull and had to be told by the assistant was ridiculous.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 17, 2016)

Lee Mason proving that there was more than one shocking referee on display today. Both teams first goal in the Everton v Boro match could and almost certainly should have been ruled out for fouls on the keeper.


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## garyinderry (Sep 17, 2016)

Pep may well be but sterling will never be a natural striker of a football.    Somehow scuffed one in today.  Lol    just as well he is quick.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 17, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			Pep may well be but sterling will never be a natural striker of a football.    Somehow scuffed one in today.  Lol    just as well he is quick.
		
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I agree mate, but neither was Michael Owen.

With the pace and trickery he showed today, it doesnt matter if your not a pure striker of a ball, if most of your shots are from 10-15 years out.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 17, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Lee Mason proving that there was more than one shocking referee on display today. Both teams first goal in the Everton v Boro match could and almost certainly should have been ruled out for fouls on the keeper.
		
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Agreed, a carbon copy of the goal in the 1984 FA cup final, that stood.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 18, 2016)

Andy Gray headed the ball, clean as you like. Negrado headed Steklenbergs arm, clean as you like. Never touched the ball.


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## GG26 (Sep 18, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Everton may not have played the top teams yet but you can only beat what's in front of you and they've done that. Winning builds confidence, it allows the new players to bed in and it sets us up for the tougher matches to come. It's not just that we've won but how we've won. Happy days at Goodison &#63052;
		
Click to expand...

Very true, Leicester were told a number of times last season that they hadn't played anyone good yet.

Great debut from Slimani yesterday, not just his goals, but his strength and running off the ball.


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## user2010 (Sep 18, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I agree mate, but neither was Michael Owen.

With the pace and trickery he showed today, it doesnt matter if your not a pure striker of a ball, if most of your shots are from 10-15 *years* out.
		
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Worth waiting for then?:thup::rofl:


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 18, 2016)

I watched MotD this morning and I have to say it was a pleasure to watch Man City. Bournemouth may well have allowed them too much space but even so you have to admire how City used it. De Bruyne in particular is elegance in motion. He looks the sort of player who doesn't leave an imprint in the grass as he glides over the pitch. 

Were Chelsea fans okay when he left or did they think it was too early to let him go? Was it the error it looks now or could you not see the development that has happened coming? 

I don't buy into the claim that City will walk the title, it's a long way to go, form can fade, injuries happen etc but they are very easy on the eye.


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## davemc1 (Sep 18, 2016)

Great result for Watford &#128512;


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## Papas1982 (Sep 18, 2016)

How good was SAF?


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## user2010 (Sep 18, 2016)

HA! HA! HA!, That is all.:rofl::thup:


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## sawtooth (Sep 18, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			How good was SAF?
		
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Bloody good, the best infact.

They will say the same about Wenger when he's gone as well.


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## anotherdouble (Sep 18, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Bloody good, the best infact.

They will say the same about Wenger when he's gone as well.
		
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The only difference being people and supporters everywhere will continue to talk about Sir Alex but I have a feeling the Wenger will only be talked about by gooners.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 18, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			The only difference being people and supporters everywhere will continue to talk about Sir Alex but I have a feeling the Wenger will only be talked about by gooners.
		
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Is the right answer.  :thup:  I don't think we'll ever see the like of SAF again, certainly not in my lifetime.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 18, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I watched MotD this morning and I have to say it was a pleasure to watch Man City. Bournemouth may well have allowed them too much space but even so you have to admire how City used it. De Bruyne in particular is elegance in motion. He looks the sort of player who doesn't leave an imprint in the grass as he glides over the pitch. 

*Were Chelsea fans okay when he left or did they think it was too early to let him go? Was it the error it looks now or could you not see the development that has happened coming? 
*
I don't buy into the claim that City will walk the title, it's a long way to go, form can fade, injuries happen etc but they are very easy on the eye.
		
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This one wasn't.  For all of Mourinho's good points, he simply refused to trust youth, and we've suffered as a consequence in my opinion.  It would be interesting to see how we would do with someone like Wenger, who will play young players, when you look at the success of our youth teams over recent years.


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## jp5 (Sep 18, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			The only difference being people and supporters everywhere will continue to talk about Sir Alex but I have a feeling the Wenger will only be talked about by gooners.
		
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Even then most level headed Gooners would admit Ferguson was in a different league to Wenger.


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## Fish (Sep 18, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Bloody good, the best infact.

*I* will say the same about Wenger when he's gone as well.
		
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Edited that for you, some people outstay their welcome, SAF nearly did, well in fact he actually did but got a squeeze and still succeeded when he should have failed, whereas the same can't be said of Wenger, he'll go down with the sinking ship :smirk:

Watford must have looked at those first fixtures and worried, whereas now those 6 points against the not so happy hammers (away) and now manure at home will sit very nicely with them, will they be the rogue team this season to split the pack? they've been sniffing and played some good football over the last few seasons, is this the season they'll make a little move forward into the top 10 or better?


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## Papas1982 (Sep 18, 2016)

jp5 said:



			Even then most level headed Gooners would admit Ferguson was in a different league to Wenger.
		
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You'd think so wouldn't you.......

If wenger had retired a decade ago then I imagine it could have had an awful effect. But whoever new comes in now simply has to get foIrth. Hardly a legacy to be lost such as utds seems to be


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## sawtooth (Sep 18, 2016)

Fish said:



			Edited that for you, some people outstay their welcome, SAF nearly did, well in fact he actually did but got a squeeze and still succeeded when he should have failed, whereas the same can't be said of Wenger, he'll go down with the sinking ship :smirk:
		
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Wenger is still welcome by the majority of supporters and its hardly a sinking ship. 

Still at least our success (big or small) is real and wasn't just purchased by a billionaire. :thup: And now with City around you cant even guarantee to out spend people like you did.


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## USER1999 (Sep 18, 2016)

I never really rated SAF until that last season. How he won the league with that squad.  Genius. And it was him, no one else. He dragged them over the line. The worst United squad ever, and he made them win it.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 18, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Wenger is still welcome by the majority of supporters and its hardly a sinking ship. 

Still at least our success (big or small) is real and wasn't just purchased by a billionaire. :thup: And now with City around you cant even guarantee to out spend people like you did.
		
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:blah: :blah:  Change the record will you.  Regardless of who paid how much for which player, the results are achieved by the players on the field.


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## Hobbit (Sep 18, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Still at least our success (big or small) is real and wasn't just purchased by a billionaire. :thup: And now with City around you cant even guarantee to out spend people like you did.
		
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Arsenal's net spending in the last 5 seasons is the 6th highest in the Prem. Using your logic, their position in the league was bought and isn't real.


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## sawtooth (Sep 18, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			:blah: :blah:  Change the record will you.  Regardless of who paid how much for which player, the results are achieved by the players on the field.
		
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It's Fish that keeps playing the same old tune.


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## Piece (Sep 18, 2016)

Well, that was a good day out


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

murphthemog said:



			I never really rated SAF until that last season. How he won the league with that squad.  Genius. And it was him, no one else. He dragged them over the line. The worst United squad ever, and he made them win it.
		
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I don't agree. It wasn't just skill that won them that league, that lot had a 12pt  head start every season on refereeing decisions alone. 

It wasnt a coincidence that refs gave more pens against them in Moyes' season than they'd had in the previous 10yrs. 

That season they won the league with RVP went totally against Ferguson's style, he knew he couldn't rebuild the defence so he went and bought an aging striker who he knew would score 25+ goals but had no real future or resale value and adopted the style of "we'll score more than you".

He's the reason they're struggling now, 2managers have taken the blame yet his ego still gets massaged week in week out. He loves it.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

Piece said:



			Well, that was a good day out 

Click to expand...

Is right, I backed Watford at 11/2 just a shame I added Celtic  to my Acca of Watford,Southampton, and Spurs :rant:


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## Papas1982 (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I don't agree. It wasn't just skill that won them that league, that lot had a 12pt  head start every season on refereeing decisions alone. 

It wasnt a coincidence that refs gave more pens against them in Moyes' season than they'd had in the previous 10yrs. 

That season they won the league with RVP went totally against Ferguson's style, he knew he couldn't rebuild the defence so he went and bought an aging striker who he knew would score 25+ goals but had no real future or resale value and adopted the style of "we'll score more than you".
		
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Sounding a little green there fella.

Maybe they faced less pens because they spent so much of a game attacking!

as to RVP, he played 442 for 20 years then changed when it stopped working. He signed him to win and did so. If that's not the sign of a good manager I don't know what is.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			That season they won the league with RVP went totally against Ferguson's style, he knew he couldn't rebuild the defence so he went and bought an aging striker who he knew would score 25+ goals but had no real future or resale value and adopted the style of "we'll score more than you".
		
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Yes because it's that simple &#129300;

Can't believe no one at Liverpool have thought of doing this for the last 26 years &#128547;


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Sounding a little green there fella.

Maybe they faced less pens because they spent so much of a game attacking!
		
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Have you been watching football for the last 20yrs?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yes because it's that simple &#129300;

Can't believe no one at Liverpool have thought of doing this for the last 26 years &#128547;
		
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They did, but that manager didn't have the 12pt head start.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Have you been watching football for the last 20yrs?
		
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Yes, just about old enough to remember your last title. Granted spent most of it watching us survive. But I've seen ALL of the title pl winners, as well as Liverpool get far more than (it evening itself out). Suggesting UTD won simply due to a 12 point start is ridiculous. Even if it were true at the end (which it wasn't). How did they get to that point? Surely that was fergies skill to have dominated so much?


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			They did, but that manager didn't have the 12pt head start.
		
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&#128514;&#128514; yeah poor Liverpool.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Yes, just about old enough to remember your last title. Granted spent most of it watching us survive. But I've seen ALL of the title pl winners, as well as Liverpool get far more than (it evening itself out). Suggesting UTD won simply due to a 12 point start is ridiculous. Even if it were true at the end (which it wasn't). How did they get to that point? Surely that was fergies skill to have dominated so much?
		
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Our last title doesn't matter, that was before football was invented 

So you can't remember decisions going yerniteds way week In week out?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...s-against-Manchester-United-Old-Trafford.html


Apologies for the daily mail link.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Our last title doesn't matter, that was before football was invented 

So you can't remember decisions going yerniteds way week In week out?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...s-against-Manchester-United-Old-Trafford.html


Apologies for the daily mail link.
		
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For the record I mentioned your last win simply to enthasise I had watched football Pre fergie. 
so you're entire argument is based on a retired ref who was trying to sell column inches. 

I remember big clubs getting lots of decisions. As a saints fan, many were against us. But, considering their dominance for almost all the premiership duration. I find their total of penalties for and against hardly looks exaggerated. 

http://www.myfootballfacts.com/Premier_League_Penalty_Statistics.html


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			so you're entire argument is based on a retired ref who was trying to sell column inches. 

I remember big clubs getting lots of decisions. As a saints fan, many were against us. But, considering their dominance for almost all the premiership duration. I find their total of penalties for and against hardly looks exaggerated. 

http://www.myfootballfacts.com/Premier_League_Penalty_Statistics.html

Click to expand...


No. My point is made with what I saw in that period, I wasn't watching league 1 football at the time neither.

Example, that season they won the league, United v Stoke at Stoke,  Neville had fouled etherington that was well worthy of a yellow card but because he'd only just been booked, Marriner  bottled it and never booked him, Ferguson subbed him not long after and they won the game 2-1. Those type of  decisions were more frequent and went for them, very rarely  against them. There's your 12pts a season.


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## freddielong (Sep 18, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			For the record I mentioned your last win simply to enthasise I had watched football Pre fergie. 
so you're entire argument is based on a retired ref who was trying to sell column inches. 

I remember big clubs getting lots of decisions. As a saints fan, many were against us. But, considering their dominance for almost all the premiership duration. I find their total of penalties for and against hardly looks exaggerated. 

http://www.myfootballfacts.com/Premier_League_Penalty_Statistics.html

Click to expand...

Loughborough university did a study of all the 50 50 decisions at old Trafford, over aI think it was a15 year period and 82 % of them were given Uniteds way, so not just a retired referee.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			No. My point is made with what I saw in that period, I wasn't watching league 1 football at the time neither.

Example, that season they won the league, United v Stoke at Stoke,  Neville had fouled etherington that was well worthy of a yellow card but because he'd only just been booked, Marriner  bottled it and never booked him, Ferguson subbed him not long after and they won the game 2-1. Those type of  decisions were more frequent and went for them, very rarely  against them. There's your 12pts a season.
		
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The fact you can remember incidents from a meaningless 2-1 between two sides neither of whom you support, IMO shows as much for your impressive knowledge as it does your strong dislike and willingness to find fault at whatever you can to back up an anti Utd stance. 

UTD were the best team in the league for many seasons. All good teams have their share of luck, but the best teams win the league.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 18, 2016)

I never felt more like singing the blues, City win Utd lose, 
oh City you got me singing the blues.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 18, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Loughborough university did a study of all the 50 50 decisions at old Trafford, over aI think it was a15 year period and 82 % of them were given Uniteds way, so not just a retired referee.
		
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did they do the same study for Liverpool, Chelsea, and Arsenal? Because as a supporter of a small team I can tell you. We faced as many shocking decisions against all the big clubs.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			No. My point is made with what I saw in that period, I wasn't watching league 1 football at the time neither.

Example, that season they won the league, United v Stoke at Stoke,  Neville had fouled etherington that was well worthy of a yellow card but because he'd only just been booked, Marriner  bottled it and never booked him, Ferguson subbed him not long after and they won the game 2-1. Those type of  decisions were more frequent and went for them, very rarely  against them. There's your 12pts a season.
		
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1977 Cup Semi, penalty not given, Clive Thomas......end of &#128515;


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			The fact you can remember incidents from a meaningless 2-1 between two sides neither of whom you support, IMO shows as much for your impressive knowledge as it does your strong dislike and willingness to find fault at whatever you can to back up an anti Utd stance. 

UTD were the best team in the league for many seasons. All good teams have their share of luck, but the best teams win the league.
		
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I've backed my opinion up with a fact and it's all because of my dislike for United? :rofl:

That last season United won the league was probably the most gung Ho United side  I've ever seen and they conceded more goals than they've ever conceded when they've won the title. The season they lost the the league to city on goal difference Ferguson was livid and his response was to adopt keegans tactics.  Why didn't he rebuild a whole new defence? Because he knew he didn't have time to do that.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			1977 Cup Semi, penalty not given, Clive Thomas......end of &#128515;
		
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That doesn't count, football was only invented in 1992 :rofl:


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 18, 2016)

So has the Maureen magic finally gone and will he get the Spanish archer like LvG if results don't pick up. Three bad results in a week clearly doesn't make it a disaster, but he's not got them playing that well and they still look a long, long way off being a consistent side capable of grinding out ugly 1-0 wins which is what Spurs and others seem to be getting better at.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 18, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			did they do the same study for Liverpool, Chelsea, and Arsenal? Because as a supporter of a small team I can tell you. We faced as many shocking decisions against all the big clubs.
		
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When Citeh were a small club, some of the decisions that went against us were shocking. We were kicked when we were down. It was not just Yoonited though. When Missis T started goin to the football with me, we went to watch City v Chelsea. She WAS in love with Frank Lampard the great floozie. Anyway it lasted about 30 seconds. lampard, Cole, Terry, the gamesmanship and blatant cheating, hounding of refs was disgusting. Them and Younited were disgusting. No one is going to convince me it only happend v City.

I said this the other night when I watched the MUTV Comedy channel. The fans were not happy with the style of football. It is just not happening for them&#128514; Yet? The thoughts of other supporters re Utd are that quite frankly they are dire, proper dire and other teams supporters could not be happier. Most clubs now smell blood when playing Utd. That fear factor of playing Utd has gone. Utd now find themselves in the same position as every team in the premier league that decisions go against you. Me at the moment, am loving seeing Utd and there fans squirm. What comes around goes around.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			No. My point is made with what I saw in that period, I wasn't watching league 1 football at the time neither.

Example, that season they won the league, United v Stoke at Stoke,  Neville had fouled etherington that was well worthy of a yellow card but because he'd only just been booked, Marriner  bottled it and never booked him,
		
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So much like the referee doing all he could to avoid sending off Cazorla for Arsenal in the match yesterday against Hull? It wasn't just United getting the decisions in their favour it was and still is all of the bigger clubs.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 18, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			When Citeh were a small club, some of the decisions that went against us were shocking. We were kicked when we were down. It was not just Yoonited though. When Missis T started goin to the football with me, we went to watch City v Chelsea. She WAS in love with Frank Lampard the great floozie. Anyway it lasted about 30 seconds. lampard, Cole, Terry, the gamesmanship and blatant cheating, hounding of refs was disgusting. Them and Younited were disgusting. No one is going to convince me it only happend v City.

I said this the other night when I watched the MUTV Comedy channel. The fans were not happy with the style of football. It is just not happening for them&#128514; Yet? The thoughts of other supporters re Utd are that quite frankly they are dire, proper dire and other teams supporters could not be happier. Most clubs now smell blood when playing Utd. That fear factor of playing Utd has gone. Utd now find themselves in the same position as every team in the premier league that decisions go against you. Me at the moment, am loving seeing Utd and there fans squirm. What comes around goes around.
		
Click to expand...

Now Citeh are getting the decisions,  ball clearly over the line in the Carling Cup Semi 2nd leg last season.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I've backed my opinion up with a fact and it's all because of my dislike for United? :rofl:

That last season United won the league was probably the most gung Ho United side  I've ever seen and they conceded more goals than they've ever conceded when they've won the title. The season they lost the the league to city on goal difference Ferguson was livid and his response was to adopt keegans tactics.  Why didn't he rebuild a whole new defence? Because he knew he didn't have time to do that.
		
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You mentioned one incident where Utd got a benifit and all of a sudden the 12 points is fact? 

I remember some papers used to show what a league would look like we ref decisions corrected. Generally the top stayed the same. Just the bottom changed slightly of one team had been hard done by. 

Fergie knew he was retiring so signed players that helped him leave successfully. Of course he wanted to go out winning. Nit sure what is wrong with that. The other. Anagers have had plenty of backing to change it since. They've probably had a bett spend of as much as fergies in the last four seasons. If the new managers can't make it work. It shows just how good fergie was IMO.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			So much like the referee doing all he could to avoid sending off Cazorla for Arsenal in the match yesterday against Hull? It wasn't just United getting the decisions in their favour it was and still is all of the bigger clubs.
		
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If it was Snodgrass or any other Hull player I very much doubt he'd have done the same, I can't prove it though so it's just my opinion.

United under Ferguson got a lot more and that was down to Ferguson alone. That Graham Poll interview sums it up. 

I'll stand by my view he won them 12pts a season alone.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 18, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			When Citeh were a small club, some of the decisions that went against us were shocking. We were kicked when we were down. It was not just Yoonited though. When Missis T started goin to the football with me, we went to watch City v Chelsea. She WAS in love with Frank Lampard the great floozie. Anyway it lasted about 30 seconds. lampard, Cole, Terry, the gamesmanship and blatant cheating, hounding of refs was disgusting. Them and Younited were disgusting. No one is going to convince me it only happend v City.

I said this the other night when I watched the MUTV Comedy channel. The fans were not happy with the style of football. It is just not happening for them&#62978; Yet? The thoughts of other supporters re Utd are that quite frankly they are dire, proper dire and other teams supporters could not be happier. Most clubs now smell blood when playing Utd. That fear factor of playing Utd has gone. Utd now find themselves in the same position as every team in the premier league that decisions go against you. Me at the moment, am loving seeing Utd and there fans squirm. What comes around goes around.
		
Click to expand...

Not really sure Karma has much to do with it. But I certainly don't begrudge any team success. I still think Utd will improve. But if Aguero plays 30 games the you win the league. 

It's refreshing for cites fans to be winning as they accept where they were before and genuinely just seem happy to enjoy the ride.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			If it was Snodgrass or any other Hull player I very much doubt he'd have done the same, I can't prove it though so it's just my opinion.

United under Ferguson got a lot more and that was down to Ferguson alone. That Graham Poll interview sums it up. 

*I'll stand by my view he won them 12pts a season alone*.
		
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i agree with that, but more that his aura at so called intimidation had the same effect on his players. 

Just look at the results Klopp is getting with making the player s run the extra mile.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			You mentioned one incident where Utd got a benifit and all of a sudden the 12 points is fact? 

I remember some papers used to show what a league would look like we ref decisions corrected. Generally the top stayed the same. Just the bottom changed slightly of one team had been hard done by. 

Fergie knew he was retiring so signed players that helped him leave successfully. Of course he wanted to go out winning. Nit sure what is wrong with that. The other. Anagers have had plenty of backing to change it since. They've probably had a bett spend of as much as fergies in the last four seasons. If the new managers can't make it work. It shows just how good fergie was IMO.
		
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That was one example, they had loads more like that if not worse. 

Ferguson was more bothered about himself IMO.

He left Moyes with a championship winning side but it needed a serious rebuild defensively, which backs up my initial point that Ferguson went against his ways and adopted the "we'll score more than you" attitude. He then jumped a sinking ship.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



*If it was Snodgrass or any other Hull player I very much doubt he'd have done the same*, I can't prove it though so it's just my opinion.

United under Ferguson got a lot more and that was down to Ferguson alone. That Graham Poll interview sums it up. 

I'll stand by my view he won them 12pts a season alone.
		
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Absolutely agree with this. The ref was quick enough to pull out the red card for the handball by the Hull player in the area and I'm sure that if Cazorla had been in an amber and black shirt yesterday he would have been sent off.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			i agree with that, but more that his aura at so called intimidation had the same effect on his players. 

Just look at the results Klopp is getting with making the player s run the extra mile.
		
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Every ref was frightened going there, they knew if they went against the they'd never ref their again.

A bit like Moyes at Everton. Called Clattenburg out and he never went back to woodison for 18 months or more.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Every ref was frightened going there, they knew if they went against the they'd never ref their again.

A bit like Moyes at Everton. Called Clattenburg out and he never went back to woodison for 18 months or more.
		
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that was down to the fa, not fergie. surely?

genuine question. Do you not rate fergie at all? Do you believe it was alol bulky tactics? No skill?

i mean, for him to have got to a point where his voice mattered, surely it took great skill to get there. 

As to the legacy he left Moyes. That lays with the board. Look how they've backed LvG and Mourinho since. 

All footballers and managers are selfish. They consider themselves first. I'm not sure how leaving a championship winning team can be a bad thing.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Every ref was frightened going there, they knew if they went against the they'd never ref their again.

A bit like Moyes at Everton. Called Clattenburg out and he never went back to woodison for 18 months or more.
		
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:rofl: :rofl: can't believe you're serious, no away team ever gets the decisions at Analfield :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

Papas1982;1574432[B said:
			
		


			]that was down to the fa, not fergie. surely[/B]?

genuine question. Do you not rate fergie at all? Do you believe it was alol bulky tactics? No skill?

i mean, for him to have got to a point where his voice mattered, surely it took great skill to get there. 

As to the legacy he left Moyes. That lays with the board. Look how they've backed LvG and Mourinho since. 

All footballers and managers are selfish. They consider themselves first. I'm not sure how leaving a championship winning team can be a bad thing.
		
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Ferguson had them clowns at the FA in his pocket too. How many touch line bans did he get away from? Not forgetting his brush with the law? Got off with a speeding offence...

I'm not doubting his acheivements but I'm talking specifically about his last season  post #2301.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			:rofl: :rofl: can't believe you're serious, no away team ever gets the decisions at Analfield :rofl:
		
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Why do you always have to turn it to us? obsessed?

The decisions like the Tiago handball v Chelsea, Kop end, Mike Riley puts his whistle to his mouth and then doesn't blow. Blatant handball we lose the game.?


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 18, 2016)

So the reason Liverpool haven't won the Prem is because UTD always had a 12pt start & Billionaire owners &#129300;
&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;

Oh and we're all obsessed &#128563;.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 18, 2016)

Ferguson was a nasty bully. He is one of many reasons, but a big one, why Utd are despised by opposition fans. I'm with StuC on this one. I'm also with Tashy and the city fans in dancing every time they lose a match. To lose with Maureen at the helm makes it even sweeter. Two nasties together.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Why do you always have to turn it to us? obsessed?

The decisions like the Tiago handball v Chelsea, Kop end, Mike Riley puts his whistle to his mouth and then doesn't blow. Blatant handball we lose the game.?
		
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I turned it to you because you's are worse than Utd, what about the game V Chelsea in CL when you were awarded the non goal that Garcia scored?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			So the reason Liverpool haven't won the Prem is because UTD always had a 12pt start & Billionaire owners &#129300;
&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;

Oh and we're all obsessed &#128563;.
		
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Who said that??


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I turned it to you because you's are worse than Utd, what about the game V Chelsea in CL when you were awarded the non goal that Garcia scored?
		
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No we're not. I admire your hatred for us but even you can't say we get more than United :rofl:

It was a goal, the liner and ref gave it. If it wasn't it was definitely a foul and a pen red card.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Who said that??
		
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&#128584;&#128514;
Aaahhh the old ignore list joke,what are you like?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ferguson was a nasty bully. He is one of many reasons, but a big one, why Utd are despised by opposition fans. I'm with StuC on this one. I'm also with Tashy and the city fans in dancing every time they lose a match. To lose with Maureen at the helm makes it even sweeter. Two nasties together.
		
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Closest red??:whoo:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			&#128584;&#128514;
Aaahhh the old ignore list joke,what are you like?
		
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No ignore list here, you keep me amused too much. 

I asked you who said what you wrote because I certainly never.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			No we're not. I admire your hatred for us but even you can't say we get more than United :rofl:

It was a goal, the liner and ref gave it. If it wasn't it was definitely a foul and a pen red card.
		
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By the start of last season you's had been awarded the most pens in PL history, Fortress Analfield was a standing joke, totally agree SAF put pressure on refs, but to make out they had a 12 point start is laughable, 
I think you we should say 9 or 15 points or just pluck any number out the air, I don't hate you's, completely believe you's are dellusional though. You have to accept like us and many clubs, you just haven't been good enough to win the PL. &#128515;


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			By the start of last season you's had been awarded the most pens in PL history, Fortress Analfield was a standing joke, totally agree SAF put pressure on refs, but to make out they had a 12 point start is laughable, 
I think you we should say 9 or 15 points or just pluck any number out the air, I don't hate you's, completely believe you's are dellusional though. You have to accept like us and many clubs, you just haven't been good enough to win the PL. &#128515;
		
Click to expand...

United had about 3pens against them at OT over 10 seasons, in Moyes' season they had 4 in 1 season!!

You're right we haven't been good enough to win the league but we've won a European cup though :thup:


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Closest red??:whoo:
		
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Nah. A blue can despise them as much as a red. I also grew up in Cheshire, vying with Surrey as the main fan base for Utd, so my dislike goes back to school days. Happy days those. A time when Utd were bog average, bit like now. Ha ha. (I know they could click and get it right at any point so we have to enjoy it whilst we can)


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			United had about 3pens against them at OT over 10 seasons, in Moyes' season they had 4 in 1 season!!
		
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But isn't a large part of that because in most games the ball spent 80% of the time in the opposition half and was very rarely in the United box. In the season with Moyes they weren't as dominant and therefore the opposition got the ball in the United box more often.Yes they got their fair share of decisions that went their way but you're more likely to get given penalties and less likely to concede them if the ball is in the opposition penalty area. Look at the seasons when Chelsea were dominant. They were getting 11 or 12 penalties for them each year and only 2 or 3 against them.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			United had about 3pens against them at OT over 10 seasons, in Moyes' season they had 4 in 1 season!!

You're right we haven't been good enough to win the league but we've won a European cup though :thup:
		
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Boooooomm You've the European Cup, seriously? How many times? 
Not seen that mentioned...............much...........just every time someone mentions the PL :rofl: :whoo:


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## Papas1982 (Sep 18, 2016)

Posted this earlier, but maybe it was missed. 

http://www.myfootballfacts.com/Premier_League_Penalty_Statistics.html

of all teams with more than 10 seasons in prem. it's  only Everton with a positive record that isn't one of the so called big clubs. 

Palace (Johnson the swan) also are in profit due to one good season. 

Considering the the amount of success Utd had, I'd actually expect them to have even more pens to their name.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			But isn't a large part of that because in most games the ball spent 80% of the time in the opposition half and was very rarely in the United box. In the season with Moyes they weren't as dominant and therefore the opposition got the ball in the United box more often.Yes they got their fair share of decisions that went their way but you're more likely to get given penalties and less likely to concede them if the ball is in the opposition penalty area. Look at the seasons when Chelsea were dominant. They were getting 11 or 12 penalties for them each year and only 2 or 3 against them.
		
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You have a point,  but there's loads of incidents that pens haven't been given when they should've been. I'll only be accused of being obsessed if I named them all.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 18, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			But isn't a large part of that because in most games the ball spent 80% of the time in the opposition half and was very rarely in the United box. In the season with Moyes they weren't as dominant and therefore the opposition got the ball in the United box more often.Yes they got their fair share of decisions that went their way but you're more likely to get given penalties and less likely to concede them if the ball is in the opposition penalty area. Look at the seasons when Chelsea were dominant. They were getting 11 or 12 penalties for them each year and only 2 or 3 against them.
		
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Way too much common sense in this post.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Boooooomm You've the European Cup, seriously? How many times? 
Not seen that mentioned...............much...........just every time someone mentions the PL :rofl: :whoo:
		
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Happy 21st :cheers:


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			You have a point,  but there's loads of incidents that pens haven't been given when they should've been. I'll only be accused of being obsessed if I named them all.
		
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So you know them all,but aren't going to name them &#129300;
Obsessed &#128514;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			You have a point,  but there's loads of incidents that pens haven't been given when they should've been. I'll only be accused of being obsessed if I named them all.
		
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Obsessed No, Sad YES :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

I hope brownie is ok? 3 defeats in 8 days I'm concerned for him.

Let us know if you're ok sir


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			So you know them all,but aren't going to name them &#129300;
Obsessed &#128514;
		
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I didnt t say I did, diddle I?

I'm going to bed soon I haven't got time anyway.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Happy 21st :cheers:
		
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Sing us a song about how many times you've won it or call it big ears, big ears is cute &#128515;


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Posted this earlier, but maybe it was missed. 

http://www.myfootballfacts.com/Premier_League_Penalty_Statistics.html

of all teams with more than 10 seasons in prem. it's  only Everton with a positive record that isn't one of the so called big clubs. 

Palace (Johnson the swan) also are in profit due to one good season. 

Considering the the amount of success Utd had, I'd actually expect them to have even more pens to their name.
		
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Remember Moyes moaning that Johnson never got a pen?


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I didnt t say I did, diddle I?

I'm going to bed soon I haven't got time anyway.
		
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Sweet dreams


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Sing us a song about how many times you've won it or call it big ears, big ears is cute &#128515;
		
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That's the closest you'll get to one though :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Remember Moyes moaning that Johnson never got a pen?
		
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I remember that, bit like when Brenda said the same about Sterling.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

Anyway, let's get back to Ferguson, his record in Europe was poor considering the amount of times they qualified for the CL or where they like Arsenal, there to make the numbers up?


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			You have a point,  but there's loads of incidents that pens haven't been given when they should've been. I'll only be accused of being obsessed if I named them all.
		
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Absolutely agree but then again Gerrard and Suarez weren't averse to "going down easily" or as I like to call it diving to win dubious penalties for your team were they? And I've only used those two due to the team you support. If it had been a Chelsea fan I was replying to I would've gone with Costa and Robben and could've done the same for any other team.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I remember that, bit like when Brenda said the same about Sterling.
		
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Joking aren't yer, Moyes had the FA involved and everything. Even LIPA went down to bellefield to work on his diving skills :rofl:


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## Tashyboy (Sep 18, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Now Citeh are getting the decisions,  ball clearly over the line in the Carling Cup Semi 2nd leg last season.
		
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one bad decision is one bad decision. It's a decision that no city fan will argue against, whereas utds and Chelsea's fans argue A, they should get these decisions that favour them and B, these desisions should not go against them when it does not favour them.
Same as Aguero and Nolito. They were/should of been reds. No arguement.

As papas says, most City fans have a degree in crap football. The guy sat at the side of Missis T wÃ s getting a bit emotional watching the standard of football yesterday, the great big fairy. Says he only ever dreamed of seeing his club play football like that.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Absolutely agree but then again Gerrard and Suarez weren't averse to "going down easily" or as I like to call it diving to win dubious penalties for your team were they? And I've only used those two due to the team you support. If it had been a Chelsea fan I was replying to I would've gone with Costa and Robben and could've done the same for any other team.
		
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They've all got them, unfortunately.

Remember them crowding around Andy D'Urso the ref, that ended his refereeing career that night.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Anyway, let's get back to Ferguson, his record in Europe was poor considering the amount of times they qualified for the CL or where they like Arsenal, there to make the numbers up?
		
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## Pin-seeker (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Anyway, let's get back to Ferguson, his record in Europe was poor considering the amount of times they qualified for the CL or where they like Arsenal, there to make the numbers up?
		
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The old Arsenal obsession AGAIN.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			The old Arsenal obsession AGAIN.
		
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I'm talking Ferguson.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 18, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Bloody good, the best infact.

They will say the same about Wenger when he's gone as well.
		
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 No "they" won't 

He isn't anywhere near the top managers that have been in GB 

Is he even the best seen at Arsenal ?

When he finally goes half the Arsenal fans will celebrate


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 18, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No "they" won't 

He isn't anywhere near the top managers that have been in GB 

Is he even the best seen at Arsenal ?

When he finally goes half the Arsenal fans will celebrate
		
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Rubbish in my opinion. He's won trophies, did something rarely seen and went a whole season unbeaten. He's met all the criteria laid down by the board and delivered what was expected and for the most part, the crowd have bought into this. How many manager's have gone unbeaten? Any of the greats? Three PL's and 6 FA cups stand up to a majority of top managers in both the present and previous era's


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Rubbish in my opinion. He's won trophies, did something rarely seen and went a whole season unbeaten. He's met all the criteria laid down by the board and delivered what was expected and for the most part, the crowd have bought into this. How many manager's have gone unbeaten? Any of the greats? Three PL's and 6 FA cups stand up to a majority of top managers in both the present and previous era's
		
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3leagues and 5 FA cups in 20 years and a very average European record?


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			3leagues and 5 FA cups in 20 years and a very average European campaigns?
		
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Thought it was  6 FA cups but either way... I agree that Europe has been a weakness but he's done everything that was asked and got Arsenal to the cash cow every year for 16 or 17 years so he must be doing something right year in year out to be top four. We've done that particular subject (is it enough) to death but my point is compared to the majority with perhaps the exception of Fergie and Mourinho, and several City managers who've spent masses securing PL success, his record is still good


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			3leagues and 5 FA cups in 20 years and a very average European record?
		
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Was it 6 leagues , 3 European Cups , a UEFA  Cup plus a couple of League Cups in just 9 years for Bob ? 

Wengers record isn't anywhere near touching the greats


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 18, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Rubbish in my opinion. He's won trophies, did something rarely seen and went a whole season unbeaten. He's met all the criteria laid down by the board and delivered what was expected and for the most part, the crowd have bought into this. How many manager's have gone unbeaten? Any of the greats? Three PL's and 6 FA cups stand up to a majority of top managers in both the present and previous era's
		
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Stuart_C said:



			3leagues and 5 FA cups in 20 years and a very average European record?
		
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Surely that should be 3 league titles and 4/5 (depending on whether Homer or Stu are correct) FA Cups in 10 years and then 1 more FA Cup in the next 10 years. For the first ten years he was right up there with the best managers ever. For the last ten years, not so much.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Thought it was  6 FA cups but either way... I agree that Europe has been a weakness but he's done everything that was asked and got Arsenal to the cash cow every year for 16 or 17 years so he must be doing something right year in year out to be top four. We've done that particular subject (is it enough) to death but my point is compared to the majority with perhaps the exception of Fergie and Mourinho, and several City managers who've spent masses securing PL success, his record is still good
		
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I've not doubted his record, but his failure in Europe shouldn't be glossed over just because of the invincibles over a decade ago.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Surely that should be 3 league titles and 4/5 (depending on whether Homer or Stu are correct) FA Cups in 10 years and then 1 more FA Cup in the next 10 years. For the first ten years he was right up there with the best managers ever. For the last ten years, not so much.
		
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His failure in Europe gets forgotten about. 

Anyway I'm bored of talking Arsenal.....


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I've not doubted his record, but his failure in Europe shouldn't be glossed over just because of the invincibles over a decade ago.
		
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And I agree but by the same token, the invincibles shouldn't be forgotten either. He should have done better in Europe, but again, has done what other big clubs in the PL never have and got there every season.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And I agree but by the same token, the invincibles shouldn't be forgotten either. He should have done better in Europe, but again, has done what other big clubs in the PL never have and got there every season.
		
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Getting there  and making the numbers up shouldn't classed as a major acheivement.

Again, I'm not doubting his domestic acheivements at all, but to be classed as a great manager you've got to have done it in Europe IMO.


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## fundy (Sep 18, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No "they" won't 

*He isn't anywhere near the top managers that have been in GB 

Is he even the best seen at Arsenal ?*

When he finally goes half the Arsenal fans will celebrate
		
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Name me 10 better managers in GB from the last 20 years? Think hes comfortably in the top managers that have been in GB.

As for being the best at Arsenal, well yes at least since the 1930s, Chapman was something special though on all accounts


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## freddielong (Sep 18, 2016)

fundy said:



			Name me 10 better managers in GB from the last 20 years? Think hes comfortably in the top managers that have been in GB.

As for being the best at Arsenal, well yes at least since the 1930s, Chapman was something special though on all accounts
		
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Its not worth it, the genepool have a weird agenda just nod back away and don't make eye contact.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 18, 2016)

fundy said:



			Name me 10 better managers in GB from the last 20 years? Think hes comfortably in the top managers that have been in GB.

As for being the best at Arsenal, well yes at least since the 1930s, Chapman was something special though on all accounts
		
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Why only from the last 20 years ? 

Ignoring the 20 years bit as not sure why the time line

Top 10 Managers seen in UK 

Paisley
Ferguson 
Clough
Shankly
Stein
Ramsey
Busby
Mourinho
Dalglish
Wenger

But for me those top three are miles ahead of anyone else 

And the top 6/7 are the true greats that have been


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 18, 2016)

fundy said:



			Name me 10 better managers in GB from the last 20 years? Think hes comfortably in the top managers that have been in GB.

As for being the best at Arsenal, well yes at least since the 1930s, Chapman was something special though on all accounts
		
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Why only from the last 20 years? The original point was about SAF being one of the best if not the best ever not just from recent times. If Wenger had left Arsenal 10 years ago then he would probably have been considered one of the top 10 managers that have worked in the UK but the last 10 years have tarnished those times. Off the top of my head I'd put SAF, Maureen, Bill Shankly, Jock Stein, Alf Ramsey, Brain Clough, Matt Busby, Bob Paisley and Pep Guardiola above him of those that have worked in the UK. And possibly controversially Hiddink and Van Gaal as well, not so much for what they did here but what they did previously in other countries. Even Walter Smith won more trophies but that was at Rangers with less competition so I guess the quality of opposition also needs to be considered.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Why only from the last 20 years? The original point was about SAF being one of the best if not the best ever not just from recent times. If Wenger had left Arsenal 10 years ago then he would probably have been considered one of the top 10 managers that have worked in the UK but the last 10 years have tarnished those times. Off the top of my head I'd put SAF, Maureen, Bill Shankly, Jock Stein, Alf Ramsey, Brain Clough, Matt Busby, Bob Paisley and Pep Guardiola above him of those that have worked in the UK. And possibly controversially Hiddink and Van Gaal as well, not so much for what they did here but what they did previously in other countries. Even Walter Smith won more trophies but that was at Rangers with less competition so I guess the quality of opposition also needs to be considered.
		
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Moyes?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

The only positive from uniteds result today, there fans haven't got too far to get home


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Moyes?
		
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Only for a Liverpool fan. You'd probably like to add Mike Walker and Roberto Martinez to the list as well.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 18, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			that was down to the fa, not fergie. surely?

genuine question. Do you not rate fergie at all? Do you believe it was alol bulky tactics? No skill?

i mean, for him to have got to a point where his voice mattered, surely it took great skill to get there. 

As to the legacy he left Moyes. That lays with the board. Look how they've backed LvG and Mourinho since. 

All footballers and managers are selfish. They consider themselves first. I'm not sure how leaving a championship winning team can be a bad thing.
		
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Just a quick question - do you think Rooney gets reffereed the same as all other premiership players, or are allowances made for him in the way that he can berate refs 10-15 times a game, and still never get booked for dissent?


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## One Planer (Sep 18, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Just a quick question - do you think Rooney gets reffereed the same as all other premiership players, or are allowances made for him in the way that he can berate refs 10-15 times a game, and still never get booked for dissent?
		
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Are club captains allowed leeway when talking to a referee?

I agree with what you say BTW, just looking for a rational toward it.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 18, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I turned it to you because you's are worse than Utd, what about the game V Chelsea in CL when you were awarded the non goal that Garcia scored?
		
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We have been worse than United over the years for decisions - yeah right, maybe as a blue you dont notice theirs, as much.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 18, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Just a quick question - do you think Rooney gets reffereed the same as all other premiership players, or are allowances made for him in the way that he can berate refs 10-15 times a game, and still never get booked for dissent?
		
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i think dissent isn't taken seriously by the refs. 
That being said, id attribute the leniency more to him being englands great hope (rightly or wrongly) than the badge he wears at the weekend.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 18, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			But isn't a large part of that because in most games the ball spent 80% of the time in the opposition half and was very rarely in the United box. In the season with Moyes they weren't as dominant and therefore the opposition got the ball in the United box more often.Yes they got their fair share of decisions that went their way but you're more likely to get given penalties and less likely to concede them if the ball is in the opposition penalty area. Look at the seasons when Chelsea were dominant. They were getting 11 or 12 penalties for them each year and only 2 or 3 against them.
		
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As a general rule I agree with you.

When us, Arsenal, Chelsea you do tend to get more pemalties (and decisions), but no matter what in Man U's era of success I think they got a good 20% more than what the others ever did.

Fergie bullied the refs, linesmen, referee officials, FA - you name it, and he got away with it in the main. His team were fantastic to watch and still would have won many, many trophies but IMHO they were also helped along the way. As has been seen since, are Man U getting anywhere near as much - no, and I dont think it was an old trafford thing, it was a Fergie thing.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 18, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Are club captains allowed leeway when talking to a referee?

I agree with what you say BTW, just looking for a rational toward it.
		
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Yes some, and as I've said on many occasions Terry and Gerrard where also up there.

Rooney is head and shoulders above everyone though. There has also been new guidelines this year, with regards to dissent, but they still dont apply to Rooney.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 18, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			i think dissent isn't taken seriously by the refs. 
That being said, id attribute the leniency more to him being englands great hope (rightly or wrongly) than the badge he wears at the weekend.
		
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Why isnt dissent taken seriously, especially this season?

He was England's great hope over 5 years ago, and think you are being very naive as to why.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 18, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Why isnt dissent taken seriously, especially this season?

He was England's great hope over 5 years ago, and think you are being very naive as to why.
		
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It just never gets punished. Just like jostling at corners. 

They make a big fuss for a few games at start of season, then back to usual. Im nit saying that's right. Just what seems to happen. 

As as to my naivety. It's just as easy for be to say I think you're just showing you bias. 

If rooney played for Saints I'm sure he would get in more trouble, but he doesn't and it's all part of a package. Playing for England's biggest club and arguably being England's best player for quite some time IMO makes it clear why he may be treated differently.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 18, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			It just never gets punished. Just like jostling at corners. 

They make a big fuss for a few games at start of season, then back to usual. Im nit saying that's right. Just what seems to happen. 

As as to my naivety. It's just as easy for be to say I think you're just showing you bias. 

If rooney played for Saints I'm sure he would get in more trouble, but he doesn't and it's all part of a package. Playing for England's biggest club and arguably being England's best player for quite some time IMO makes it clear why he may be treated differently.
		
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But dissent is currently being cracked down on this season, as is jostling.

Ok, it might lessen in the next few months, but Rooney cant help himself as he has done it for 10 years, unpunished.

Rooney wouldn't get away with it anywhere else.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 18, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			We have been worse than United over the years for decisions - yeah right, maybe as a blue you dont notice theirs, as much.
		
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All the big clubs tend to get the decisions and maybe they got more than most, but making out that's the reason they were succesful is a joke.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 18, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			But dissent is currently being cracked down on this season, as is jostling.

Ok, it might lessen in the next few months, but Rooney cant help himself as he has done it for 10 years, unpunished.

Rooney wouldn't get away with it anywhere else.
		
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Well unfirtinateky there's no way to prove that to be right or wrong as he's probably not gonna play at another club. That said, I don't recall too many players being sent off for dissent. 

Like i say, IMO it doesn't get handled properly for anyone.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 18, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			All the big clubs tend to get the decisions and maybe they got more than most, but making out that's the reason they were succesful is a joke.
		
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Nobody said it was the only  reason they were successful.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 18, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			All the big clubs tend to get the decisions and maybe they got more than most, but making out that's the reason they were succesful is a joke.
		
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I havent said thats the reason that they were successful. They had brilliant team(s) who were amongst the best teams and footballers ever seen in England, what I said is that I think they were helped by referees. Even if they werent they still would have won many leagues.:thup:

I think your reading what you think you want to, rather than what is being actually written by me.:thup:

You've changed your tune, what happened to the tired old untrue cliche that it evens........


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Nobody said it was the only  reason they were successful.
		
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Fergie was worth 12 points :rofl: don't remember ever seeing him in the starting 11, good job he didn't sign Cech, with his 10 and Fergies 12 they'd had the League won in March :clap:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 18, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I havent said thats the reason that they were successful. They had brilliant team(s) who were amongst the best teams and footballers ever seen in England, what I said is that I think they were helped by referees. Even if they werent they still would have won many leagues.:thup:

I think your reading what you think you want to, rather than what is being actually written by me.:thup:

You've changed your tune, what happened to the tired old untrue cliche that it evens........
		
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You answered my answer to Stu, I'm back to the original point. I'm not the one moaning about decisions for other clubs, Everton get some decisions and lose some decisions, yesterday was a perfect example, just don't think the decisions and Fergies 12 points were the reason they were succesful.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 19, 2016)

To even have the gall to ask a referee to do this, shows how much he felt he was untouchable:-

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...ot-his-way-with-referees-at-Manchester-United


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## Kellfire (Sep 19, 2016)

I think Man Utd's dominance over the past 25 years is what leads to stuff like this "12 points a season" nonsense that is being spouted on here. That's the price of success.

Mourinho needs to get over the Fellaini obsession and give Rooney an extend spell on the bench. Herrera and Schneiderlin need to get time on the pitch and Rashford and Martial need to play through the middle more often, especially the former. No point sticking an instinctive finisher on the wing.


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## stokie_93 (Sep 19, 2016)

Another weekend, another dreadful performance from our lot.

Serious worries for the season, thought our performances against City & Spurs could have been a combination of bad luck/better team but we looked so far out of our depth yesterday it was mental. Can't even pinpoint what's gone wrong...


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 19, 2016)

Can I rewind a few pages. I'm not having Dalglish above Kendall in the top 10 managers list. Dalglish inherited an already succesful Liverpool team and bought a championship with Blackburn. Kendall developed a team at Everton and created a genuinely top side for a few years. I'm not claiming top 3 or 5 but I'm having him over Kenny.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 19, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			I think Man Utd's dominance over the past 25 years is what leads to stuff like this "12 points a season" nonsense that is being spouted on here. That's the price of success.
		
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Totally agree, but it's easier to blame someone else than accept their own inadaquencies.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 19, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can I rewind a few pages. I'm not having Dalglish above Kendall in the top 10 managers list. Dalglish inherited an already succesful Liverpool team and bought a championship with Blackburn. Kendall developed a team at Everton and created a genuinely top side for a few years. I'm not claiming top 3 or 5 but I'm having him over Kenny.
		
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So what about the team in 88 -did he inherit that as well which went on to win two titles 

He was also the first player manager to also win the double and took over a side who hadn't previously won the league 

And he took Blackburn from the old second div to winning the Prem during a time Man Utd were dominating 

He won twice the amount of league titles Kendall did 

Sorry but Kenny above Kendall every day of the week


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## Kellfire (Sep 19, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Another weekend, another dreadful performance from our lot.

Serious worries for the season, thought our performances against City & Spurs could have been a combination of bad luck/better team but we looked so far out of our depth yesterday it was mental. Can't even pinpoint what's gone wrong...
		
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Is this the pay off of moving from a style of solid, direct football from the back with an emphasis on good defensive structure to a team with more expansive players who want to do more on the ball? It was a culture shock and was probably going to happen eventually. I think Stoke will turn it around and be comfortably midtable by the end of the season but it must be worrying to be leaking 3-4 goals seemingly every week!


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 19, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So what about the team in 88 -did he inherit that as well which went on to win two titles 

He was also the first player manager to also win the double and took over a side who hadn't previously won the league 

And he took Blackburn from the old second div to winning the Prem during a time Man Utd were dominating 

He won twice the amount of league titles Kendall did 

Sorry but Kenny above Kendall every day of the week
		
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At Blackburn he bought big and it paid off. Well done, great achievement but that team wasn't built, it was bought. Liverpool were hardly in the doldrums in 88. I just did a quick google to check the team out. Grobbelaar, Nicol, Hansen, Lawrenson, Staunton, McMahon, Whelan, Houghton, Wark, Molby, Barnes, Dalglish, Rush, Beardsley, Aldridge were there and immediately stood out. Most of them had been there for a good while. Liverpool during the 80's evolved every year, no big rebuilding job required. With the back room staff there the side ran itself. Brilliant set up.

Kendall built the team virtually from scratch. Bigger achievement in my eyes.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 19, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			At Blackburn he bought big and it paid off. Well done, great achievement but that team wasn't built, it was bought. Liverpool were hardly in the doldrums in 88. I just did a quick google to check the team out. Grobbelaar, Nicol, Hansen, Lawrenson, Staunton, McMahon, Whelan, Houghton, Wark, Molby, Barnes, Dalglish, Rush, Beardsley, Aldridge were there and immediately stood out. Most of them had been there for a good while. Liverpool during the 80's evolved every year, no big rebuilding job required. With the back room staff there the side ran itself. Brilliant set up.

Kendall built the team virtually from scratch. Bigger achievement in my eyes.
		
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I feel a "google off" coming on


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 19, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I can smell the fear :rofl:
		
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bunting still kept ready to celebrate Demba day again!


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## freddielong (Sep 19, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So what about the team in 88 -did he inherit that as well which went on to win two titles 

He was also the first player manager to also win the double and took over a side who hadn't previously won the league 

And he took Blackburn from the old second div to winning the Prem during a time Man Utd were dominating 

He won twice the amount of league titles Kendall did 

Sorry but Kenny above Kendall every day of the week
		
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Or you could argue Kenny took over a well oiled machine that had its own way of doing things, a proven system of success and promoting from within that dominated football for decades and left it in the toilet.

Both appear valid


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 19, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			United had about 3pens against them at OT over 10 seasons, in* Moyes' season they had 4 in 1 season*!!

You're right we haven't been good enough to win the league but we've won a European cup though :thup:
		
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that's because he told the Cb's to study Jagielka DVD's to teach them how to defend.....


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 19, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I hope brownie is ok? 3 defeats in 8 days I'm concerned for him.

Let us know if you're ok sir 

Click to expand...

no been sulking and avoiding ropes :ears:




actually a weekend of under 8's football and the refs decisions were no better on the park! 


#conspiracy I tell thee......


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## stokie_93 (Sep 19, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Is this the pay off of moving from a style of solid, direct football from the back with an emphasis on good defensive structure to a team with more expansive players who want to do more on the ball? It was a culture shock and was probably going to happen eventually. I think Stoke will turn it around and be comfortably midtable by the end of the season but it must be worrying to be leaking 3-4 goals seemingly every week!
		
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something like that mate. I totally understand that with a more attacking and 'footballing' approach becomes more chance of conceding goals. However the goals we are conceding are unacceptable. 

We look totally shot of confidence and the players look like they don't have a clue what their roles are both individually and as a team. They don't look like they trust the player next to them nor trust the managers ethos or gameplan.

We've got to address the defensive issues first because we've got enough talent to score goals.
2 home games this week so hopefully restore against confidence. WBA at home next week is a huge game and i'm not particularly looking forward to it.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 19, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Anyway, let's get back to Ferguson, his record in Europe was poor considering the amount of times they qualified for the CL or where they like Arsenal, there to make the numbers up?
		
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Despite the domestic dominance.
Can't argue with that other that a little hampered to start with whilst the forgieners rule was in place but TBF he was tactically out thought on quite a few occasions.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 19, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			They've all got them, unfortunately.

Remember them crowding around Andy D'Urso the ref, that ended his refereeing career that night.
		
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Yep but the penalty stood......


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 19, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Just a quick question - do you think Rooney gets reffereed the same as all other premiership players, or are allowances made for him in the way that he can berate refs 10-15 times a game, and still never get booked for dissent?
		
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Can one of them please send him and give a 6-10 match ban soon!!!!!


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## pokerjoke (Sep 19, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Despite the domestic dominance.
Can't argue with that other that a little hampered to start with whilst the forgieners rule was in place but TBF he was tactically out thought on quite a few occasions.
		
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Alex himself in his book says he wishes he won more C/L titles and by the sounds of it that's his biggest disappointment.

How some people say they never rated him though is just plain stupid.

Hope the Hockey season starts soon


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## Kellfire (Sep 19, 2016)

Look at the number of games and the quality of opposition Liverpool faced when they were in the European Cup in the 70s and 80s. You could win it by playing only one or two tough opponents in the whole campaign. The CL is much more difficult to win as can be shown by no team yet retaining it and Barca not truly converting their dominance into more CL victories.

The European Cup and the Champions League are not directly comparable in my opinion if you look at the demands and structure of them.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 19, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			At Blackburn he bought big and it paid off. Well done, great achievement but that team wasn't built, it was bought. Liverpool were hardly in the doldrums in 88. I just did a quick google to check the team out. Grobbelaar, Nicol, Hansen, Lawrenson, Staunton, McMahon, Whelan, Houghton, Wark, Molby, Barnes, Dalglish, Rush, Beardsley, Aldridge were there and immediately stood out. Most of them had been there for a good while. Liverpool during the 80's evolved every year, no big rebuilding job required. With the back room staff there the side ran itself. Brilliant set up.

Kendall built the team virtually from scratch. Bigger achievement in my eyes.
		
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Kenny - took over after the Heysel disaster with the club in a bit of a mess after Joe resigned , the club took a big risk appointing Kenny as player manager and Bob was brought in to help him but he was the manager and he took the club to their first ever double - that's something that no manager will ever do again 

The next season they had a dip due to aging players and was the first in a while were we didn't win anything and we lost Rush who left to Juve so Kenny went out and bought a lot of very good players - Barnes , Beardsley , Aldridge ( was bought before Rush in the Jan ) , Houghton , McMahon and IMO produced prob the best team seen in the this country - the football being played was out of this world and the 5 nil stuffing is prob one of the best games I have ever seen. He won two titles with that team as well as having to deal with Hillsborough. Team should have won also in 89 but too many games just took their toil

He then came back into football with Blackburn and bought some very good players and took the team from Div 1 to win the title with his second team - don't believe anyone else has won the league with two different teams

Even a decade later he came back and won another trophy with us 

So he not only broke records as a player he did so as a manager and records that won't be touched . He also produced IMO one of the best teams in the history of English Football 

So yes I'll have him above Kendall every day of the week


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 19, 2016)

That's fine LP. You keep Kenny, I'll keep Howard. Not surprising really.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 19, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can I rewind a few pages. I'm not having Dalglish above Kendall in the top 10 managers list. Dalglish inherited an already succesful Liverpool team and bought a championship with Blackburn. Kendall developed a team at Everton and created a genuinely top side for a few years. I'm not claiming top 3 or 5 but I'm having him over Kenny.
		
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Have you ever looked at Liverpool's 1985 side (under Joe Fagan, won nothing, great manager BTW) and our 1987 side - totally different team.

Kenny was 2 wins away from doing 3 doubles.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 19, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Or you could argue Kenny took over a well oiled machine that had its own way of doing things, a proven system of success and promoting from within that dominated football for decades and left it in the toilet.

Both appear valid
		
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So did David Moyesa, although he did get rid of the pistons and the crankshaft.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 19, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Look at the number of games and the quality of opposition Liverpool faced when they were in the European Cup in the 70s and 80s. You could win it by playing only one or two tough opponents in the whole campaign. The CL is much more difficult to win as can be shown by no team yet retaining it and Barca not truly converting their dominance into more CL victories.

The European Cup and the Champions League are not directly comparable in my opinion if you look at the demands and structure of them.
		
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maybe now but some of the defeats in the around the turn of the century were to lesser opposition just being more tactically astute IMO.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 19, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			So did David Moyesa, although he did get rid of the pistons and the crankshaft.

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:rofl: :rofl:


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 19, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Have you ever looked at Liverpool's 1985 side (under Joe Fagan, won nothing, great manager BTW) and our 1987 side - totally different team.

Kenny was 2 wins away from doing 3 doubles.
		
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Just googled it. Not a huge difference to my eyes. Maybe some of the names were at the end of their careers but as I did not follow Liverpool I could not tell you when the Hansen's, Lawrenson's, Rush's etc were coming to the end.

Fagan won nothing in 85 due to Kendall's Everton team, thanks for highlighting this , but cleared up in 84 as Howard was still in the building phase. Maybe Kenny only did well as Howard left and Everton started to decline? Ha ha.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 19, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Just googled it. Not a huge difference to my eyes. Maybe some of the names were at the end of their careers but as I did not follow Liverpool I could not tell you when the Hansen's, Lawrenson's, Rush's etc were coming to the end.

Fagan won nothing in 85 due to Kendall's Everton team, thanks for highlighting this , but cleared up in 84 as Howard was still in the building phase. Maybe Kenny only did well as Howard left and Everton started to decline? Ha ha.
		
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Unfortunately we were 1 win away from a treble and never got a chance to compete in Europe for 5 years and who knows if we may or may not achieved more under Kendall.
Don't agree with these lists about greatest ever this that or the other as football has changed over the decades, prefer to judge on what I've witnessed not what I've read about in History books. There is no doubt to me that the Liverpool domination in the mid 70's - 90's through various managers was more down to how the Club was run than singleing out 1 individual and I doubt we'll never see that repeated by any Club.


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## sawtooth (Sep 19, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Have you ever looked at Liverpool's 1985 side (under Joe Fagan, won nothing, great manager BTW) and our 1987 side - totally different team.

*Kenny was 2 wins away from doing 3 doubles*.
		
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So was Wenger 

I like Dalglish, he talks a lot of sense. :thup:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/kenny-dalglish-chelsea-vs-arsenal-4374157


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## Stuart_C (Sep 20, 2016)

Everton being turned over at home by Norwich.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 20, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Everton being turned over at home by Norwich. 

Click to expand...

Norwich deserve it mate, bodies on the line defending then scored a superb 2nd (worth seeing) on the break. 
Proves what we were discussing about squad depth.
Good win by Norwich, Ruddy had a good night in goal and their defence was excellent, no excuses and good luck to Norwich in the next round.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 20, 2016)

We're concentrating on the league &#128513;. Fair play to Norwich, decent club.


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## davemc1 (Sep 20, 2016)

Cmon Paul, you cannot blame squad depth. Norwich made 10 changes &#129300;


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 20, 2016)

Mrs BiM has kindly made me a cup of tea - and missed 2 Chelsea goals whilst doing so!   She is not amusedâ€¦â€¦â€¦


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## Stuart_C (Sep 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Norwich deserve it mate, bodies on the line defending then scored a superb 2nd (worth seeing) on the break. 
Proves what we were discussing about squad depth.
Good win by Norwich, Ruddy had a good night in goal and their defence was excellent, no excuses and good luck to Norwich in the next round.
		
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FA Cup or bust now


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 20, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			FA Cup or bust now 

Click to expand...

U23 Cup :clap:


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Norwich deserve it mate, bodies on the line defending then scored a superb 2nd (worth seeing) on the break. 
Proves what we were discussing about squad depth.
Good win by Norwich, Ruddy had a good night in goal and their defence was excellent, no excuses and good luck to Norwich in the next round.
		
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Your squad depth should easily outdo Norwich at home.

According to radio Merseyside (I know the blues on here dont get that where they live) Norwich have made ten changes to their side from Saturday (weaker team), whereas the blues only made 6, and should have more than enough for them.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 20, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Cmon Paul, you cannot blame squad depth. Norwich made 10 changes &#129300;
		
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Dave, we had all the possession, loads of chances, failed to take them due to poor finishing plus Norwich keeper and defence had one of them nights, credit to Norwich. We weren't good enough tonight, said the other day we have no back up to Lukaku.


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## davemc1 (Sep 20, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Your squad depth should easily outdo Norwich at home.

According to radio Merseyside (I know the blues on here dont get that where they live) Norwich have made ten changes to their side from Saturday (weaker team), whereas the blues only made 6, and should have more than enough for them.
		
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Think I wrote most of the above, top of the page &#129300; 

Im not on ignore now am I? &#128540;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 20, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Your squad depth should easily outdo Norwich at home.

According to radio Merseyside (I know the blues on here dont get that where they live) Norwich have made ten changes to their side from Saturday (weaker team), whereas the blues only made 6, and should have more than enough for them.
		
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Of course we should, I coukd put my blue glasses on and moan about Naismith slipping over to score, stonewall handball on the line when we were 1-0 down, fact was regardless of squad changes we do have more than enough and tonight Norwich fought harder and wanted it more, better to lose this than lose in the league.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 20, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Think I wrote most of the above, top of the page &#63764; 

Im not on ignore now am I? &#63004;
		
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 Your out of the scouse gang now, yer big puff.

Ding, ding!! No mate, thats just for one special person.


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## Hobbit (Sep 21, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Of course we should, I coukd put my blue glasses on and moan about Naismith slipping over to score, stonewall handball on the line when we were 1-0 down, fact was regardless of squad changes we do have more than enough and tonight Norwich fought harder and wanted it more, better to lose this than lose in the league.
		
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Every single stat says you battered them, apart from they had 2 shots on target and scored with both of them.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 21, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Every single stat says you battered them, apart from they had* 2 shots * on target and *scored * with both of them.
		
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ulitimately  the only stat that counts!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 21, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Every single stat says you battered them, apart from they had 2 shots on target and scored with both of them.
		
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I watched it mate, only ourselves to blame, Norwich did what they needed and as said, there's only one stat that really counts.
Initially watching it I was getting wound up, especially when Naismith slipped and lobbed the keeper, but the longer it went on I knew they would get a 2nd, one of those nights were we didn't look like scoring no matter how many chances.


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## stokie_93 (Sep 21, 2016)

Off to watch our lot tonight. Hopefully get to see some youngsters play who look half arsed.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 21, 2016)

League Cup draw started well; West Ham v Chelsea followed by Utd v City and 4th game Liverpool v Spurs.  Customary soft draw for Arsenalâ€¦â€¦â€¦..


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## Stuart_C (Sep 21, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			League Cup draw started well; West Ham v Chelsea followed by Utd v City and 4th game Liverpool v Spurs.  Customary soft draw for Arsenalâ€¦â€¦â€¦.. 

Click to expand...

Very tasty draw, would've preferred United but at home to Spurs should be a good game.

I wonder if the policing issue at the London stadium will be sorted for this game.


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## richart (Sep 21, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			League Cup draw started well; West Ham v Chelsea followed by Utd v City and 4th game Liverpool v Spurs.  Customary soft draw for Arsenalâ€¦â€¦â€¦.. 

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:angry: Played them 10 times, lost ten times. OK you have got a point.


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## Slime (Sep 21, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Very tasty draw, *would've preferred United* but at home to Spurs should be a good game.

I wonder if the policing issue at the London stadium will be sorted for this game.
		
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I think everyone would prefer United, the way they're playing right now is total gash.
Carrick was excellent tonight but Rojo had a shocker.
United should sell him with a special offer of 'Buy one Rojo, get one Fellaini free'.


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## jp5 (Sep 21, 2016)

richart said:



			:angry: Played them 10 times, lost ten times. OK you have got a point.
		
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One with a 4 goal headstart!


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 22, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Very tasty draw, would've preferred United but at home to Spurs should be a good game.

I wonder if the policing issue at the London Council House will be sorted for this game.
		
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It will give them a little test!


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## Fish (Sep 22, 2016)

West Ham playing very poor currently but with any London Derby form goes out the window, I can see major problems happening if they don't address the easy accessibility between the stands around the stadium, lots of bans that were served following the Cardiff confrontations have now all but expired and stewards in the ground won't stop something happening if good segregation isn't applied!  The drums are already beating!


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## stokie_93 (Sep 22, 2016)

we're s**t out of luck at the moment. Haven't seen us play a more one sided game for a while.

Saturday is going to be a huge game.


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## davemc1 (Sep 22, 2016)

jp5 said:



			One with a 4 goal headstart!
		
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:rofl:  how on earth could you lose from being 4 up?

or even draw &#128540;


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## jp5 (Sep 22, 2016)

I wouldn't know! :mmm:


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 22, 2016)

Fish said:



			West Ham playing very poor currently but with any London Derby form goes out the window, I can see major problems happening if they don't address the easy accessibility between the stands around the stadium, lots of bans that were served following the Cardiff confrontations have now all but expired and stewards in the ground won't stop something happening if good segregation isn't applied!  The drums are already beating!
		
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What will be the away allocation at there new ground for a cup game.

I remember the good old days of 25% in the FA cup, 14,000 reds at Villa etc 

Don think they do that anymore, or always "subject to segregation".


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 22, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			What will be the away allocation at there new ground for a cup game.

*I remember the good old days of 25% in the FA cup, 14,000 reds at Villa etc *


Don think they do that anymore, or always "subject to segregation".
		
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Well it was a semi final   


away ticket allocations are a real bone of contention these days and im pretty confident in thinking clubs hide behind safety certifcates and council safety officers to reduce size of allocations


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## Fish (Sep 22, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			What will be the away allocation at there new ground for a cup game.

I remember the good old days of 25% in the FA cup, 14,000 reds at Villa etc 

Don think they do that anymore, or always "subject to segregation".
		
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The original plan was that away fans get the upper & lower sections of the South West Corner fir cup games which is 15% and could give us 8,100 &#128540;


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 22, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Well it was a semi final   


away ticket allocations are a real bone of contention these days and im pretty confident in thinking clubs hide behind safety certifcates and council safety officers to reduce size of allocations
		
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Nar mate, an early round when you got the full Witton lane, the paddock behind the goal, and possibly above also?

The days when Barnes was in his prime (i.e.better than Giggs).


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## pokerjoke (Sep 22, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Nar mate, an early round when you got the full Witton lane, the paddock behind the goal, and possibly above also?

The days when Barnes was in his prime (i.e.better than Giggs).

Click to expand...

Stop it


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 22, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Nar mate, an early round when you got the full Witton lane, the paddock behind the goal, and possibly above also?

The days when Barnes was in his prime (i.e.better than Giggs).

Click to expand...

cant remember that long ago you mean there was football before sky and all seater stadia......


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## sawtooth (Sep 22, 2016)

YaYa Toure agent, Seluk, publicly criticising Pep.

â€œIf Pep wants to prove himself as a great manager, then he should go to Real Zaragoza or Sunderland. Letâ€™s see how good he is when he doesn't take over a great team and hasn't got half a billion pounds to spend." 

He has a point. ðŸ˜


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 22, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			YaYa Toure agent, Seluk, publicly criticising Pep.

â€œIf Pep wants to prove himself as a great manager, then he should go to Real Zaragoza or Sunderland. Letâ€™s see how good he is when he doesn't take over a great team and hasn't got half a billion pounds to spend." 

He has a point.
		
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doesn't matter if you have half a billion in the transfer kitty if your banned from signing players........


http://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/foot...-of-youngster/ar-BBwuuMZ?li=BBoPWjP&ocid=iehp


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 22, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			YaYa Toure agent, Seluk, publicly criticising Pep.

â€œIf Pep wants to prove himself as a great manager, then he should go to Real Zaragoza or Sunderland. Letâ€™s see how good he is when he doesn't take over a great team and hasn't got half a billion pounds to spend." 

He has a point. ðŸ˜
		
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Only spent 20 Million at Bayern and the link below from 2015 has him behind Wenger for spending.

http://www.90min.com/posts/2043756-the-world-s-12-biggest-spending-managers-since-2004

He's spent a bit more at City, but not what an agent says.

Trophies wise, he's money well spent.


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## sawtooth (Sep 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Only spent 20 Million at Bayern and the link below from 2015 has him behind Wenger for spending.

http://www.90min.com/posts/2043756-the-world-s-12-biggest-spending-managers-since-2004

He's spent a bit more at City, but not what an agent says.

Trophies wise, he's money well spent.
		
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Nonsense. He spent more than that at Bayern. Thiago Silva cost more than that alone.

And that link compares managers from 2004 onwards. Pep didn't take charge of Barca until 08/09 !

And with City let's not forget the Â£1Bn that was spent before Pep arrived and he spent another few hundred million. 

I could take charge of City tomorrow and would stand a chance of winning something in my first season too.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 22, 2016)

Doesn't matter how much he spent at Bayern,he took over a treble winning side that didn't need any money spending on it to win the league.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 22, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Nonsense. He spent more than that at Bayern. Thiago Silva cost more than that alone.

And that link compares managers from 2004 onwards. Pep didn't take charge of Barca until 08/09 !

And with City let's not forget the Â£1Bn that was spent before Pep arrived and he spent another few hundred million. 

I could take charge of City tomorrow and would stand a chance of winning something in my first season too.
		
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The 20 Million was in his first season, apologies, irrelevant what was spent before him, you can't credit them to him, Wenger has spent half a billion since he's been in post and Guardiola is still more succesful, if it's all about the teams you inherit, why wasn't Moyes succesful at Utd or what happened to Jose last season.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/15126/10153635/pep-guadiolas-transfer-policy-analysed-ahead-of-man-city-move


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 22, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			YaYa Toure agent, Seluk, publicly criticising Pep.

â€œIf Pep wants to prove himself as a great manager, then he should go to Real Zaragoza or Sunderland. Letâ€™s see how good he is when he doesn't take over a great team and hasn't got half a billion pounds to spend." 

He has a point. ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Your opinion and attitude towards Pep was slightly different when you were extremely confident he was going to take over at Arsenal.

His trophy count stands up to be counted both domestically and in Europe. 

I guess he just needs a good run of 4th places to rated alongside Wenger


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Your opinion and attitude towards Pep was slightly different when you were extremely confident he was going to take over at Arsenal.

His trophy count stands up to be counted both domestically and in Europe. 

I guess he just needs a good run of 4th places to rated alongside Wenger 

Click to expand...

And back to Wenger &#128580;

Obsessed.


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## sawtooth (Sep 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Your opinion and attitude towards Pep was slightly different when you were extremely confident he was going to take over at Arsenal.

His trophy count stands up to be counted both domestically and in Europe. 

I guess he just needs a good run of 4th places to rated alongside Wenger 

Click to expand...

I don't think that I was ever extremely confident lol. 

His trophy count stands up as one of the best yes but he has just so happened to have managed 3 of the most priveleged clubs in their respective countries .

This has nothing to do with Wenger and I don't know why people are quick to make comparisons. You are comparing apples and oranges anyway.

The debate is about Pep and would he be any good if he managed a smaller club with less money to spend.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 22, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I don't think that I was ever extremely confident lol. 

His trophy count stands up as one of the best yes but he has just so happened to have managed 3 of the most priveleged clubs in their respective countries .

This has nothing to do with Wenger and I don't know why people are quick to make comparisons. You are comparing apples and oranges anyway.

The debate is about Pep and would he be any good if he managed a smaller club with less money to spend.
		
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Serious question, can you name any person at the top of their profession who has put his hand up and said they've had enough success and wish to start at the bottom again.
It's ridiculous to constantly bring up the point about people reproving themselves at other clubs lower down the peckin order or not having money to spend, they're in that position because they are the best at the moment.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 22, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I don't think that I was ever extremely confident lol. 

His trophy count stands up as one of the best yes but he has just so happened to have managed 3 of the most priveleged clubs in their respective countries .

This has nothing to do with Wenger and I don't know why people are quick to make comparisons. You are comparing apples and oranges anyway.

The debate is about Pep and would he be any good if he managed a smaller club with less money to spend.
		
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The best and successful managers get the bigger clubs - the reason being that they bring success 

What would you consider "success" at a smaller club ?

City last year were a bit of a mess , players a mess , Pep comes and gets them playing together and looking like they will walk the league - spent a bit but hasn't gone mad in the same way Maureen has at the Mancs yet outclassed them the other week. 

He is IMO the best manager in the game right now


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## Papas1982 (Sep 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Serious question, can you name any person at the top of their profession who has put his hand up and said they've had enough success and wish to start at the bottom again.
It's ridiculous to constantly bring up the point about people reproving themselves at other clubs lower down the peckin order or not having money to spend, they're in that position because they are the best at the moment.
		
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The only point I can see some make is that he never had to work his way up as such. Fergie did his time and lower levels, as did Mourinho. Pep went into a well piled machine. Granted he improved them. At bayern they at times played more entertaining football but he didn't do anything unexpected.


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## sawtooth (Sep 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Serious question, can you name any person at the top of their profession who has put his hand up and said they've had enough success and wish to start at the bottom again.
It's ridiculous to constantly bring up the point about people reproving themselves at other clubs lower down the peckin order or not having money to spend, they're in that position because they are the best at the moment.
		
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Not constantly bringing it up, it's topical now due to the Toure agent bust up with Pep. 

Of course you wouldn't blame Pep if he carried on cherry picking the best jobs in football. He has earned that right and unless he wanted to prove something to himself I can't ever see him taking over a project with next to no money to spend.

Same can be said for Mourinho. 

As you bought Wenger into it, he is the exact opposite, He likes a bargain and would relish the prospect of turning nothing into something. As you keep pointing out , he has the money but doesn't spend it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 22, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Not constantly bringing it up, it's topical now due to the Toure agent bust up with Pep. 

Of course you wouldn't blame Pep if he carried on cherry picking the best jobs in football. He has earned that right and unless he wanted to prove something to himself I can't ever see him taking over a project with next to no money to spend.

Same can be said for Mourinho. 

As you bought Wenger into it, he is the exact opposite, He likes a bargain and would relish the prospect of turning nothing into something. As you keep pointing out , he has the money but doesn't spend it.
		
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So why doesn't Wenger move on to a club with little money to spend to get those bargains and turn them into something ?

As opposed to sitting in the seat of no ambition


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So why doesn't Wenger move on to a club with little money to spend to get those bargains and turn them into something ?

As opposed to sitting in the seat of no ambition
		
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Because they wouldn't pay him Â£7m a year?


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## sawtooth (Sep 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So why doesn't Wenger move on to a club with little money to spend to get those bargains and turn them into something ?

As opposed to sitting in the seat of no ambition
		
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Ambition is the same as it's ever been.  Now we have the money we are spending it more. Some players just aren't for sale simple as that. And others are offered at ridiculously inflated prices.


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## sawtooth (Sep 22, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Because they wouldn't pay him Â£7m a year?
		
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He could have left to go to PSG four times and they would have easily matched Â£7M, might have even doubled it.

Money is not Wengers motivation. He loves the club.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 22, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Ambition is the same as it's ever been.  Now we have the money we are spending it more. Some players just aren't for sale simple as that. And others are offered at ridiculously inflated prices.
		
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Sorry but you were talking about Wenger relishing the prospect of turning nothing into something and bargains - so why has he not moved on to a club to try that then ? 

The other managers you mention - Pep and Maureen may spend money and work with great players but they also win trophies - they do what is required of them, they have no need to go to a Sunderland etc . Wenger spends money ( lots of it in the last 4 years ) to win nothing.

I ask the question - would Pep and Maureen have done better with Arsenal over the last five years with the same budget - for me yes , they both would have won the title with Arsenal IMO


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 22, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			The only point I can see some make is that he never had to work his way up as such. Fergie did his time and lower levels, as did Mourinho. Pep went into a well piled machine. Granted he improved them. At bayern they at times played more entertaining football but he didn't do anything unexpected.
		
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Fair point, but he's not the first, Cruyff, Beckenbauer and Klinnsmann etc also went into top jobs straight away, others have gone into very succesful sides and took them backwards.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 22, 2016)

All this talk of Pep, Wenger etc, why is anybody taking any notice of an agent, bloodsucking leaches, 99% of them never kicked a ball.


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## richart (Sep 22, 2016)

jp5 said:



			One with a 4 goal headstart!
		
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 As if I had forgotten that.:angry: We have drawn  two games after 90 minutes, just extra time that is a problem.


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## sawtooth (Sep 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but you were talking about Wenger relishing the prospect of turning nothing into something and bargains - so why has he not moved on to a club to try that then ? 

The other managers you mention - Pep and Maureen may spend money and work with great players but they also win trophies - they do what is required of them, they have no need to go to a Sunderland etc . Wenger spends money ( lots of it in the last 4 years ) to win nothing.

I ask the question - would Pep and Maureen have done better with Arsenal over the last five years with the same budget - for me yes , they both would have won the title with Arsenal IMO
		
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Because his project is not finished at Arsenal. He over saw the most significant milestone in Arsenals history , a stadium move , and kept us competitive against the odds during those years.  Now that is behind us we are spending more and we have a couple of FA Cups to show for that within the last few years. 

We can't hope to financially match Utd, City or Chelsea but we are a darn site closer now then we ever would have been without Wenger.

You might not accept me talking sense, but you might understand it better coming from this man.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/kenny-dalglish-chelsea-vs-arsenal-4374157


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## Stuart_C (Sep 22, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I don't think that I was ever extremely confident lol. 

His trophy count stands up as one of the best yes but he has just so happened to have managed 3 of the most priveleged clubs in their respective countries .

This has nothing to do with Wenger and I don't know why people are quick to make comparisons. You are comparing apples and oranges anyway.
*
The debate is about Pep and would he be any good if he managed a smaller club with less money to spend*.
		
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What other Top managers have done what you've proposed in recent history?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 22, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Because his project is not finished at Arsenal. He over saw the most significant milestone in Arsenals history , a stadium move , and kept us competitive against the odds during those years.  Now that is behind us we are spending more and we have a couple of FA Cups to show for that within the last few years. 

We can't hope to financially match Utd, City or Chelsea but we are a darn site closer now then we ever would have been without Wenger.

You might not accept me talking sense, but you might understand it better coming from this man.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/kenny-dalglish-chelsea-vs-arsenal-4374157

Click to expand...

Sorry but the financial excuse for not winning the league blown out of the water last year 

The teams you mention - Utd , Chelsea and City all fell over last season giving Arsenal their best chance to win the title and again they failed whilst a team with a tenth of the budget of Arsenal won the title , whilst Arsenal celebrated being above Spurs 

The project has been over a decade now and is it really any closer over the last 4 years since Wenger has been spending. He has spent money but each year goes by and it's the same holes , the same excuses with no change. 

Pep and Mourinho and possibly Klopp would have IMO won the title with Arsenal in the last 4/5 years had they been at the helm with the same spending power. 

Pep especially - to continuely hide behind others success based on finances gives you the perfect excuse each year. Sorry Leicester showed us all that doesn't weigh up anymore.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Fair point, but he's not the first, Cruyff, Beckenbauer and Klinnsmann etc also went into top jobs straight away, others have gone into very succesful sides and took them backwards.
		
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Oh I agree. I don't think there's a right or wrong route into football. It's just that the pep route always leaves the possibility for discussion. 

Muuch like some some use the fact Barca built around messi to question if he's better than Ronaldo or not.


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## sawtooth (Sep 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but the financial excuse for not winning the league blown out of the water last year 

The teams you mention - Utd , Chelsea and City all fell over last season giving Arsenal their best chance to win the title and again they failed whilst a team with a tenth of the budget of Arsenal won the title , whilst Arsenal celebrated being above Spurs 

The project has been over a decade now and is it really any closer over the last 4 years since Wenger has been spending. He has spent money but each year goes by and it's the same holes , the same excuses with no change. 

Pep and Mourinho and possibly Klopp would have IMO won the title with Arsenal in the last 4/5 years had they been at the helm with the same spending power. 

Pep especially - to continuely hide behind others success based on finances gives you the perfect excuse each year. Sorry Leicester showed us all that doesn't weigh up anymore.
		
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Well I will give you last season but it was a freak and we don't expect to see anything of the like again for another 50 yrs.

But with that said Wenger still achieved top 4 where other 'distinguished'  managers did not. Klopp included, infact he didn't even make top 6.

I expect business as usual this season and the top 4 will most probably be ranked by financial might.

If Liverpool make top 4 then that would be an excellent achievement although you will probably be disappointed because you expect to win the league.

I don't think like that, as long as we play great football and we give it a real go then that's all I can ask for. I take nothing for granted when other teams are throwing money around like confetti. I hope that we can win the PL or CL - I don't expect it.


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## sawtooth (Sep 22, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			What other Top managers have done what you've proposed in recent history?
		
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I can't think of any of the top of my head, it's a hypothetical situation. I don't see Pep going on to manage Bournemouth after this TBH.  It doesn't really happen.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 22, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I can't think of any of the top of my head, it's a hypothetical situation. I don't see Pep going on to manage Bournemouth after this TBH.  It doesn't really happen.
		
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Exactly, you want him to do something that never has been done, ( well, apart from Benitez whose currently the only manager to put his neck on the block,) just to prove how good of a manager he is?   His record speaks for itself.

On your other snide dig  about City spending over Â£1bn, how else would you have  expect City or anybody else outside of the top 4 for that matter to achieve what they have to date? 

You're very bitter towards clubs who have had a helping hand.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but the financial excuse for not winning the league blown out of the water last year 

The teams you mention - Utd , Chelsea and City all fell over last season giving Arsenal their best chance to win the title and again they failed whilst a team with a tenth of the budget of Arsenal won the title , whilst Arsenal celebrated being above Spurs 

The project has been over a decade now and is it really any closer over the last 4 years since Wenger has been spending. He has spent money but each year goes by and it's the same holes , the same excuses with no change. 

Pep and Mourinho and possibly Klopp would have IMO won the title with Arsenal in the last 4/5 years had they been at the helm with the same spending power. 

Pep especially - to continuely hide behind others success based on finances gives you the perfect excuse each year. Sorry Leicester showed us all that doesn't weigh up anymore.
		
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Sorry Phil, agree with everything but, I know you said Possibly,  the Klopp comment, he's not in the same league as Pep or Jose, maybe in time.
We know all about his record with Dortmund, but that's it. The other 2 have done it in different countries not one and they've won the CL, Ancellotti or Big Phil or even Pellegrini are worthy of a mention before him, not Klopp, not yet.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 22, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Well I will give you last season but it was a freak and we don't expect to see anything of the like again for another 50 yrs.

But with that said Wenger still achieved top 4 where other 'distinguished'  managers did not. Klopp included, infact he didn't even make top 6.
		
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That just shows to me the lack of ambition - you should be livid that Arsenal didnt take advantage of the slip ups instead you are looking for "success" in finishing above certain other teams - hence the wild celebrations just finsihing above Spurs



			I expect business as usual this season and the top 4 will most probably be ranked by financial might.

If Liverpool make top 4 then that would be an excellent achievement although you will probably be disappointed because you expect to win the league.

I don't think like that, as long as we play great football and we give it a real go then that's all I can ask for. I take nothing for granted when other teams are throwing money around like confetti. I hope that we can win the PL or CL - I don't expect it.
		
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If we make top 4 i will be happy - excellent acheivement ? Nope there is no trophy so excellent it isnt, it should be used as a stepping stone to move further forward and challenge for trophies

And when did Arsenal last "give it a real go" ? 2006 for CL ? The league ? 2004 ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Sorry Phil, agree with everything but, I know you said Possibly,  the Klopp comment, he's not in the same league as Pep or Jose, maybe in time.
We know all about his record with Dortmund, but that's it. The other 2 have done it in different countries not one and they've won the CL, Ancellotti or Big Phil or even Pellegrini are worthy of a mention before him, not Klopp, not yet.
		
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I wasnt rating Klopp alongside those managers ? 

I just think he would have won the title for Arsenal if he was manager in the last 5 years


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 22, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Exactly, you want him to do something that never has been done, ( well, apart from Benitez whose currently the only manager to put his neck on the block,) just to prove how good of a manager he is?   His record speaks for itself.

On your other snide dig  about City spending over Â£1bn, how else would you have  expect City or anybody else outside of the top 4 for that matter to achieve what they have to date? 

You're very bitter towards clubs who have had a helping hand.
		
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Yes because spending Â£50m to get out of the Championship is the mark of a truly great manager ðŸ™„


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I wasnt rating Klopp alongside those managers ? 

I just think he would have won the title for Arsenal if he was manager in the last 5 years
		
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You must be buzzing to know that a Klopp will win the title with Liverpool in the next 5years then &#128536;


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## Stuart_C (Sep 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Sorry Phil, agree with everything but, I know you said Possibly,  the Klopp comment, he's not in the same league as Pep or Jose, maybe in time.
We know all about his record with Dortmund, but that's it. The other 2 have done it in different countries not one and they've won the CL, Ancellotti or *Big Phil *or even Pellegrini are worthy of a mention before him, not Klopp, not yet.
		
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Is this the same big Phil  that only lasted 4 months at Chelsea?:rofl: :rofl:


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 22, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			cant remember that long ago you mean there was football before sky and all seater stadia...... 

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Yes, but I think it was when they had tape for a crossbar and the referees wore a suit.

Actually your old enough to remember Barnes, being better than Giggs.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 22, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yes because spending Â£50m to get out of the Championship is the mark of a truly great manager ðŸ™„
		
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I never said he was a "truly great manager"  

The championship isn't the easiest league to get out of and currently he's put his reputation on the block.

It's - Â£15m nett actually.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 22, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Is this the same big Phil  that only lasted 4 months at Chelsea?:rofl: :rofl:
		
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July 2008 - Feb 2009, My point is that he was a manager with international pedigree and way better than Klopp.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			July 2008 - Feb 2009, My point is that he was a manager with international pedigree and way better than Klopp.
		
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But done nothing of note as a club manager ?

Not sure how you can compare Scolari to any club manager


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But done nothing of note as a club manager ?

Not sure how you can compare Scolari to any club manager
		
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Because he comes with a pedigree, what are you basing Klopp winning the title with Arsenal on? The squad he'd inherit, the money he'd spend or a complete rebuild, as of now he's un-proven outside of Germany.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			July 2008 - Feb 2009, My point is that he was a manager with international pedigree and way better than Klopp.
		
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What's 3 months between muckers Eh 

Big Phil may be a good international manager but his club record is pretty rubbish, bit like Hodgson.........


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Because he comes with a pedigree, what are you basing Klopp winning the title with Arsenal on? The squad he'd inherit, the money he'd spend or a complete rebuild, as of now he's un-proven outside of Germany.
		
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What pedigree ? Scolari took over a Chelsea team full of stars and had financial backing yet failed horribly 


Klopp won two titles with an unfancied team in a league normally dominated by one team with the most financial muscle. 

You cant call Klopp unproven yet suggest Scolari who has done nothing of note in European Club football has pedigree ?!?!


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## NWJocko (Sep 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But done nothing of note as a club manager ?

Not sure how you can compare Scolari to any club manager
		
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Other than winning the Libertadores twice?

Not too many club managers have won the World Cup though so maybe isn't a fair comparison :thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 22, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			What's 3 months between muckers Eh 

Big Phil may be a good international manager but his club record is pretty rubbish, bit like Hodgson.........
		
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Maybe I should've googled first &#128515; They were just international renowned managers that came to mind.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But done nothing of note as a club manager ?

Not sure how you can compare Scolari to any club manager
		
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Whilst I don't think he's as good as mourinho, fergie or pep. 
He's won close to 20 clubs trophies as well as a World Cup. 

Granted not in Europe which is apparently the only barometer for some. But I certainly wouldn't write his credentials off.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What pedigree ? Scolari took over a Chelsea team full of stars and had financial backing yet failed horribly 


Klopp won two titles with an unfancied team in a league normally dominated by one team with the most financial muscle. 

You cant call Klopp unproven yet suggest Scolari who has done nothing of note in European Club football has pedigree ?!?!
		
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So ok, scolari was a bad choice, you care to justify how Klopp would of won the PL with Arsenal.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 22, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Whilst I don't think he's as good as mourinho, fergie or pep. 
He's won close to 20 clubs trophies as well as a World Cup. 

Granted not in Europe which is apparently the only barometer for some. But I certainly wouldn't write his credentials off.
		
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Yeah but he hasn't done it with San Marino though


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 22, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, but I think it was when they had tape for a crossbar and the referees wore a suit.

Actually your old enough to remember Barnes, being better than Giggs.

Click to expand...



Only at rapping?......&#128556;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 22, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah but he hasn't done it with San Marino though 

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On a side note mate, thought what the council did today for the 96 and the 4 others was superb.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So ok, scolari was a bad choice, you care to justify how Klopp would of won the PL with Arsenal.
		
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It's only his opinion,  I reckon moysie would've won it with that arsenal side...


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So ok, scolari was a bad choice, you care to justify how Klopp would of won the PL with Arsenal.
		
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With Mignolet, Moreno......need I go on?


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## sawtooth (Sep 22, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Exactly, you want him to do something that never has been done, ( well, apart from Benitez whose currently the only manager to put his neck on the block,) just to prove how good of a manager he is?   His record speaks for itself.

On your other snide dig  about City spending over Â£1bn, how else would you have  expect City or anybody else outside of the top 4 for that matter to achieve what they have to date? 

You're very bitter towards clubs who have had a helping hand.
		
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Actually I'm not Stuart or should I say I never used to bother me.

It's certain people on here that keep banging on about lack of trophies and taking shots at Wenger that I find myself having to constantly go over the same ground. There can be no denying that Wenger would have won more titles if it wasn't for those clubs that got a helping hand as you put it. But that's life and I can accept that and move on until the next time someone (usual suspects) criticises Wenger for not winning enough.

I was hoping that by posting what King Kenny had written the penny might have dropped. Someone who once fell out with Wenger big time is gracious enough now to write a piece acknowledging Wengers achievements. 

And for the record there is no way Klopp , Pep, Guardiola would have won more at Arsenal over the same transition period with the same budget. Absolutely no chance IMO.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 22, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I never said he was a "truly great manager"  

The championship isn't the easiest league to get out of and currently he's put his reputation on the block.

It's - Â£15m nett actually.
		
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ðŸ˜‚ The old nett spend.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			On a side note mate, thought what the council did today for the 96 and the 4 others was superb.
		
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I'm not too sure with it all if I'm being honest.

There's many many more  people who deserve recognition for their efforts.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 22, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			With Mignolet, Moreno......need I go on?

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Fair one, they'd be his first signings along side Osman and Hibbert :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 22, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm not too sure with it all if I'm being honest.

There's many many more  people who deserve recognition for their efforts.
		
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Hopefully in time they'll be recognised to, good start though. Highest honour a City can give.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 22, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Only at rapping?......&#63020;
		
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For 4 seasons he (w)rapped in 61 league goals, from the wing.

It took Ryan 7 years (in his best seasons to score that). In his worst seasons it took him 14 years to do the equivalent.

I can't believe its up for debate?:thup:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 22, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Actually I'm not Stuart or should I say I never used to bother me.

It's certain people on here that keep banging on about lack of trophies and taking shots at Wenger that I find myself having to constantly go over the same groun*d. There can be no denying that Wenger would have won more titles if it wasn't for those clubs that got a helping hand as you put it. *But that's life and I can accept that and move on until the next time someone (usual suspects) criticises Wenger for not winning enough.

I was hoping that by posting what King Kenny had written the penny might have dropped. Someone who once fell out with Wenger big time is gracious enough now to write a piece acknowledging Wengers achievements. 

And for the record there is no way Klopp , Pep, Guardiola would have won more at Arsenal over the same transition period with the same budget. Absolutely no chance IMO.
		
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Haha are you for real?? How can you even think that never mind print it?

I've read the link and even though it's 2yrs out of date I don't agree with him but like me, you, Phil etc Kenny is entitled to his opinion. I will not change my mind or view on wenger just because Kenny says he's great.

Same budget?? He's spent millions over the last 6 years and you're banging on like he's had to take free transfers and sell to buy. He keeps telling all you Arsenal fans that there's money there to be spent, which one is it?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Hopefully in time they'll be recognised to, good start though. Highest honour a City can give.
		
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Nah there's a lot of history between them (certain people)


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## sawtooth (Sep 22, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha are you for real?? How can you even think that never mind print it?

I've read the link and even though it's 2yrs out of date I don't agree with him but like me, you, Phil etc Kenny is entitled to his opinion. I will not change my mind or view on wenger just because Kenny says he's great.

Same budget?? He's spent millions over the last 6 years and you're banging on like he's had to take free transfers and sell to buy. He keeps telling all you Arsenal fans that there's money there to be spent, which one is it?
		
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YES i absolutely believe that, take a look at the league tables over the past 12 years, remove City and Chelsea from them and tell me where Arsenal would have finished.

Arsenal had money but it's all relative isn't it? We haven't Spent Â£900M like City have under Pellegrini and Mancini before him. So yes the same budget, which was higher than some admittedly during the stadium move but crucially, less than the teams that finished above us. I'm not just talking signing on fees and not being able to recruit the players.  I am also talking about the players that defected due to the lure of obscene wages. 

You are making out that money doesn't have a part to play, that is just plain wrong. You will find out yourself when Klopp gets agonisingly close a few times but not close enough.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 22, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			YES i absolutely believe that, take a look at the league tables over the past 12 years, remove City and Chelsea from them and tell me where Arsenal would have finished.



			If My mam had bollox she'd have been my dad :rofl:

Back in the real world.....

Next you'd be telling me if Lehman hadn't have been sent off you'd have won the CL :rofl::rofl::rofl:
		
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Arsenal had money but it's all relative isn't it? We haven't Spent Â£900M like City have under Pellegrini and Mancini before him. So yes the same budget, which was higher than some admittedly during the stadium move but crucially, less than the teams that finished above us. I'm not just talking signing on fees and not being able to recruit the players.  I am also talking about the players that defected due to the lure of obscene wages. 




			it wasn't a level playing field to begin with so there was never any other way for City to progress as much as they have in such a short space of time. You keeping harping on about Chelsea and City, let it go it's the way football is these days. I don't like it but It is what it is
		
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You are making out that money doesn't have a part to play, that is just plain wrong. 




			I am not, your posts about Chelsea and city especially  come across very bitter
		
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You will find out yourself when Klopp gets agonisingly close a few times but not close enough.
		
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According to a few on here we'll be fighting it out for 6th if we're lucky so I won't know about going close.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 22, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			YES i absolutely believe that, take a look at the league tables over the past 12 years, remove City and Chelsea from them and tell me where Arsenal would have finished.

Arsenal had money but it's all relative isn't it? We haven't Spent Â£900M like City have under Pellegrini and Mancini before him. So yes the same budget, which was higher than some admittedly during the stadium move but crucially, less than the teams that finished above us. I'm not just talking signing on fees and not being able to recruit the players.  I am also talking about the players that defected due to the lure of obscene wages. 

You are making out that money doesn't have a part to play, that is just plain wrong. You will find out yourself when Klopp gets agonisingly close a few times but not close enough.
		
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Stop using money as an excuse - Leicester have shown that you can't continuely fall back on that excuse 

Arsenal since 11 have spent Â£340 mill on players ! And players like Van Persie didn't leave because of wages - they left because they wanted to win titles. Why have you not included Man Utd when you want to remove title winners ? 

Does money play a part ? Yes it does - it will help buy the better players but the last season showed that have the better players doesn't automatically mean you will win the title.


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## sawtooth (Sep 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Stop using money as an excuse - Leicester have shown that you can't continuely fall back on that excuse 

Arsenal since 11 have spent Â£340 mill on players ! And players like Van Persie didn't leave because of wages - they left because they wanted to win titles. Why have you not included Man Utd when you want to remove title winners ? 

Does money play a part ? Yes it does - it will help buy the better players but the last season showed that have the better players doesn't automatically mean you will win the title.
		
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Don't use one example like Leicester , that was the exception not the rule.

Man U is a bit different. They generate more than Arsenal anyway from football related activities and that you just have to accept.

It's just unfortunate for Wenger that massive foreiign outside-investment came in when Arsenal were at their most vulnerable financially.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 22, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Don't use one example like Leicester , that was the exception not the rule.

Man U is a bit different. They generate more than Arsenal anyway from football related activities and that you just have to accept.

It's just unfortunate for Wenger that massive foreiign outside-investment came in when Arsenal were at their most vulnerable financially.
		
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But Leicester aren't the only club breaking the financial rule. 

Saints have finished above above teams in recent years that have spent significantly better. The question that's raised is why Wenger has t been able to inspire the Arsenal team to better things. 

I think what what he did in the early years was great, what he did during transition was exceptional. But now, finances can't be blamed and personally belive that he could have done better. Last season you had the lead in the league and crumbled. Your points tally was poor. It's that plan and simple. So questions remain, will he guide you to another title. And finances can't be the excuse anymore, nit because of Leicester, but because your team is expesive enough to at least properly challenge.


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## One Planer (Sep 22, 2016)

sawtooth said:



*Don't use one example like Leicester , that was the exception not the rule.*

Man U is a bit different. They generate more than Arsenal anyway from football related activities and that you just have to accept.

It's just unfortunate for Wenger that massive foreiign outside-investment came in when Arsenal were at their most vulnerable financially.
		
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What about Klopps Dortmund or SimionÃ¨'s Athletico Madrid?

Both won leagues without the available spends of the usual suspects/winners within their leagues (Bayern Munich, Barcelona and Real Madrid respectively).

Different leagues granted but only echoes the fact Leicester are not the only team to win league titles while not having the spending power of their league rivals.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 22, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			It's just unfortunate for Wenger that massive foreiign outside-investment came in when Arsenal were at their most vulnerable financially.
		
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It's a bit disingenuous to complain about "massive foreign outside investment" when your major shareholder (just under 67%) is an American with a net worth of over Â£4 billion. Wenger and the board say that there is money to spend and in the last few seasons Wenger hasn't exactly been shy of spending some of that money.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 22, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			It's a bit disingenuous to complain about "massive foreign outside investment" when your major shareholder (just under 67%) is an American with a net worth of over Â£4 billion. Wenger and the board say that there is money to spend and in the last few seasons Wenger hasn't exactly been shy of spending some of that money.
		
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It's ok when Arsenal splash Â£34m on a squad player, but when city or Chelsea do it they're spoiling the game


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 22, 2016)

One Planer said:



			What about Klopps Dortmund or SimionÃ¨'s Athletico Madrid?

Both won leagues without the available spends of the usual suspects/winners within their leagues (Bayern Munich, Barcelona and Real Madrid respectively).

Different leagues granted but only echoes the fact Leicester are not the only team to win league titles while not having the spending power of their league rivals.
		
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Disagree and a bit unfair to Leicester, Klopp and Simeone did and are doing great things against big spending rivals, but both clubs especially Atletico were not in the state Leicester were, both were League and Cup winners and European winners in their very recent history when Klopp and Simeone took over.
Both took a coupke of years to win the respective titles again.
Ranieri inherited a team that finished 1 place off relegation and turned them into the League champions in his first season, a team with a very limited history.
Not saying at all Klopp and Simeone had it easy or didn't/aren't deserve praise, but Leicester has no were near the stature or history of Dortmund or Atletico and what they did imo is incompariable in modern football.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 22, 2016)

I agree with Sawtooth with regards to Leicester.

Yes, it is correct that Leicester won the league with little money (also in a season, when the previous years champions finished 9 places lower), which is equally as unusual.

Over the last 10-12 years the top 4-5 spending teams have generally finished in the top 4-5. Money does make a massive difference in football nowadays, but it isnt the ABSOLUTE be all and end all.

Just because leicester done it once, doesnt mean that it will be done many times in the future.

I will also argue against him on Wenger, but the leicester defence doesnt stack up against it for me.


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## jp5 (Sep 23, 2016)

If your hypothesis is that a team can't win the league as they don't have the financial resources, it only takes one counter-example to refute that.

Teams have done it abroad, and now they've done it here as well.


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## jp5 (Sep 23, 2016)

Much is made of the top four consistency but if you look at the finances that's what arsenal should be expected to achieve. The same way it's expected the big money clubs will finish higher. Rarely seems to be mentioned though.


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## sawtooth (Sep 23, 2016)

jp5 said:



			Much is made of the top four consistency but if you look at the finances that's what arsenal should be expected to achieve. The same way it's expected the big money clubs will finish higher. Rarely seems to be mentioned though.
		
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I don't dispute what you say but want to add that it's on the back of Wenger's great work that Arsenal finances are what they are today.


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## Kellfire (Sep 23, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			There can be no denying that Wenger would have won more titles if it wasn't for those clubs that got a helping hand as you put it.

And for the record there is no way Klopp , Pep, Guardiola would have won more at Arsenal over the same transition period with the same budget. Absolutely no chance IMO.
		
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You're so biased towards Wenger, it is nothing short of laughable.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 23, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			For 4 seasons he (w)rapped in 61 league goals, from the wing.

It took Ryan 7 years (in his best seasons to score that). In his worst seasons it took him 14 years to do the equivalent.

I can't believe its up for debate?:thup:
		
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you didn't have to google the stats im not really debating but not going to publicly give youse any praise ever! 



PS. Lge Cup away allocations 10%
Fa Cup 15%
 all subject to safety certificate obviously like the PL allocations another reduced one for us on Oct 17th!!! :angry:


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## Hobbit (Sep 23, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I don't dispute what you say but want to add that it's on the back of Wenger's great work that Arsenal finances are what they are today.
		
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Wenger is the (football) manager, not the club's financial director. C'mon Sean, as much as I'm very much a Wenger fan I don't think he is either Superman or Saint Arsene. I don't doubt he's done some fantastic stuff, football-wise, that have impacted on the club's finances but it's the FD that's given him the rope.


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## NWJocko (Sep 23, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			You're so biased towards Wenger, it is nothing short of laughable.
		
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It is, however equally laughable (painful) is people turning him posting a quote made by Yaya Toure's agent about Pep Guardiola into another 3 pages of covering the same old ground about Arsenal and Wenger.

This would be a decent thread if that argument didn't consume it every week or if something new was discussed but it's the same stuff posted over and over and over and over and over and over.......


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 23, 2016)

Yaya's agent is a prat who has just burnt some very wealthy bridges. No doubt he is a multi millionaire so he wont care but if I was one of his clients I would be looking elsewhere for representation.

Questions about Guardiola's management skills? Really? Watch the number of clubs queuing up to employ him when he is finished at City. I'd have him.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 23, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			you didn't have to google the stats im not really debating but not going to publicly give youse any praise ever! 

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See, a Man U fan from back in the day before all the bandwagon jumpers came on board, so remembers when everything wasn't rosy in the garden. A man of taste also.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 23, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			See, a Man U fan from back in the day before all the bandwagon jumpers came on board, so remembers when everything wasn't rosy in the garden. A man of taste also. 

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That'll be the 2nd Division garden too!


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 24, 2016)

Rooney dropped to the bench for the game today. Now we just need the England manager to grow the balls to do the same.


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## sawtooth (Sep 24, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Rooney dropped to the bench for the game today. Now we just need the England manager to grow the balls to do the same.
		
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Need Allardyce to play Rooney in his usual striker position. If he then doesn't cut it there then agreed , needs to be dropped.

It's a bit unfair to judge Rooney on being a midfielder when clearly he isn't one and never will be.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 24, 2016)

I not think on his current form he deserves a place in the team in any position. Every time I've seen him play this season attacks have slowed down when they went through him.


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## sawtooth (Sep 24, 2016)

Leicester is probably the last team Mourinho would want to be playing right now.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 24, 2016)

Well that was against the run of play.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 24, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			It's a bit unfair to judge Rooney on being a midfielder when clearly he isn't one and never will be.
		
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I dunno over a season he will do a good job there, I reckon.

Good enough to be top 3, not sure, but can definitely do a better job than most premiership midfielders.


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## sawtooth (Sep 24, 2016)

Blimey that's game well and truly over. I thought Leicester would be a tough test today but Man U brushed them aside.


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## davemc1 (Sep 24, 2016)

Fair play to Utd, but how bad are Leicester? Champions? Can't see them staying up at this rate


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 24, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Fair play to Utd, but how bad are Leicester? Champions? Can't see them staying up at this rate
		
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Since they went behind they have looked desperate.



sawtooth said:



			Blimey that's game well and truly over. I thought Leicester would be a tough test today but Man U brushed them aside.
		
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Leicester were troubling them and looked more likely to score first but since then it has been one way traffic.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 24, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Fair play to Utd, but how bad are Leicester? Champions? Can't see them staying up at this rate
		
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Backed at 33/1 to get relegated end of last season. Not sure what they're at atm. But i certainly see more chance of bottom half than top. They were on a crest of confidence, unfortunately all their players played at 100% last year and think reality good hit hard.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 24, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Leicester is probably the last team Mourinho would want to be playing right now.
		
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OOPS sometimes mate its just best to keep your thoughts to yourself.

Pogba's turned up finally


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## pokerjoke (Sep 24, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Need Allardyce to play Rooney in his usual striker position. If he then doesn't cut it there then agreed , needs to be dropped.

It's a bit unfair to judge Rooney on being a midfielder when clearly he isn't one and never will be.
		
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Along with 99% of Utd supporters Rooney needed to be dropped and it doesn't matter where he has played of late he has been very poor for his standards.


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## Junior (Sep 24, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Along with 99% of Utd supporters Rooney needed to be dropped and it doesn't matter where he has played of late he has been very poor for his standards.
		
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:thup:  He crossed for a couple of goals in the first couple of matches, but sadly, he is no longer the player he was and Herrera , Mata, Pogba should be on the sheet ahead of him.  Actually, Blind as a box to box CM is a better option, but he's in at LB today.


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## Junior (Sep 24, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I dunno over a season he will do a good job there, I reckon.

Good enough to be top 3, not sure, but can definitely do a better job than most premiership midfielders.
		
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Possibly, but he wouldnt do a better job than Herrera, Mata, Pogba, Blind or even Carrick.  He's honestly been that bad.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 24, 2016)

Junior said:



			Possibly, but he wouldnt do a better job than Herrera, Mata, Pogba, Blind or even Carrick.  He's honestly been that bad.
		
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I think carrick is the player he should mound himself on. He's a frustrating sort, when you play him up top he always drifts back to midfield, but if you try playing him deep like a carrick, pirlo or alonso he roams to far forward. That was fine when first on scene as he had the legs for it. Now, unless his positional discipline improves I think the bench will become his usual place.


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## Slime (Sep 24, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



*I think carrick is the player he should mound himself on.* He's a frustrating sort, when you play him up top he always drifts back to midfield, but if you try playing him deep like a carrick, pirlo or alonso he roams to far forward. That was fine when first on scene as he had the legs for it. Now, unless his positional discipline improves I think the bench will become his usual place.
		
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Isn't that illegal?


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## Papas1982 (Sep 24, 2016)

Haha! 

No no worse that what he did with Grannies.......


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## davemc1 (Sep 24, 2016)

This should be abar 100-0


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 24, 2016)

Disappointing result today, reports saying we were lucky just lose by 1, gutted, but on to next friday.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 24, 2016)

And the Citeh go marching on. What odds on City bein Prem champs.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 24, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			And the Citeh go marching on. What odds on City bein Prem champs.
		
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Best price 4/6. 
Liverpool 2nd favourites,but obviously they're not putting any pressure on themselves & top 4 is massive for them &#128580;


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## fundy (Sep 24, 2016)

4/6 Tashyboy

I see Wenger still not picking a striker and Coquelin yet again preferred


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## fundy (Sep 24, 2016)

I guess you dont need to pick a striker if the oppo arent gonna pick any centre halfs 

Cracking goal the 2nd one


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## jp5 (Sep 24, 2016)

Working well at the moment! Bossing the game and taken our chances for a change.


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## davemc1 (Sep 24, 2016)

fundy said:



			I guess you dont need to pick a striker if the oppo arent gonna pick any centre halfs 

Cracking goal the 2nd one
		
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:rofl:


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## Junior (Sep 24, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			And the Citeh go marching on. What odds on City bein Prem champs.
		
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They look the best team by a country mile.  They started strong last year but faded a little.  I don't think pep will let them do that.  It'll be in the bag by Feb.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 24, 2016)

Junior said:



			They look the best team by a country mile.  They started strong last year but faded a little.  I don't think pep will let them do that.  It'll be in the bag by Feb.
		
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Heard somewhere last season and never checked it out That was relegation form not champs league form. &#128563;


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## davemc1 (Sep 24, 2016)

so much fun watching Chelsea getting whacked &#128515;&#128077;


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 24, 2016)

United right back on it and personally thought they looked a better side without Rooney with better movement, pace and invention. I wonder if the fact he was on the bench, if not wholly surprising given the furore in the press this week, is the sing of things to come.

To be honest City, Liverpool and Arsenal all look bang on form especially on todays results. Not sure what is happening at Chelsea but they look a mess today and Conte seems no better than the last guy and will Abramovich be getting his spies on the case to look for a new man again. This can't go on can it?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 24, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Feeling quite dizzy being this far up the table, and all thanks to our loveable neighbours :rofl:
		
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That didn't last long :rofl: :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 24, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			The league doesn't matter til after 10 games 

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:clap: :clap: :clap: :whoo:


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## sawtooth (Sep 24, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			United right back on it and personally thought they looked a better side without Rooney with better movement, pace and invention. I wonder if the fact he was on the bench, if not wholly surprising given the furore in the press this week, is the sing of things to come.

To be honest City, Liverpool and Arsenal all look bang on form especially on todays results. Not sure what is happening at Chelsea but they look a mess today and Conte seems no better than the last guy and will Abramovich be getting his spies on the case to look for a new man again. This can't go on can it?
		
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Ivanovic has been Arsenal's best player but they've all been good tbh.

Expect a reaction from Chelsea 2nd half,  I think Conte will be giving out the hair drier treatment.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 24, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			United right back on it and personally thought they looked a better side without Rooney with better movement, pace and invention. I wonder if the fact he was on the bench, if not wholly surprising given the furore in the press this week, is the sing of things to come.

To be honest City, Liverpool and Arsenal all look bang on form especially on todays results. *Not sure what is happening at Chelsea but they look a mess today and Conte seems no better than the last guy and will Abramovich be getting his spies on the case to look for a new man again. This can't go on can it?*

Click to expand...

What did you expect Conte to do in such a short space of time? He's a manager not a miracle worker.

I've only seen the last 10mins of this game how did Luiz not get booked for that challenge?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 24, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			:clap: :clap: :clap: :whoo:
		
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Knob.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 24, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			What did you expect Conte to do in such a short space of time? He's a manager not a miracle worker.

I've only seen the last 10mins of this game how did Luiz not get booked for that challenge?
		
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Not like he didn't have world class players to work with though is it?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 24, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not like he didn't have world class players to work with though is it?
		
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What did you expect him to do?


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## Tashyboy (Sep 24, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Heard somewhere last season and never checked it out That was relegation form not champs league form. &#63027;
		
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right al start again, heard somewhere that city won there first five games last season and won 16 of there next 33. That was relegation form not champs league. Just asked Missis T what our five kit makers were. She got Nike, Reebok, Le cow sport if and Umbro. She said "is the last one Dunlop". 
We're not talking now.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 24, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not like he didn't have world class players to work with though is it?
		
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chelsea look pedestrian, very pedestrian. A standard was set last year and Chelsea are no where near that. Unfortunately  the score could flatter Arsenal who are playing a poor Chelsea side. Chelsea look like a City side from last year. At this rate champions league football will not be played at the bridge next year either. Having said that, I think they have the right man in Conte there.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 24, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			What did you expect him to do?
		
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The same as Big Sam get his magic wand out cast a spell and all is rosy in the garden!


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 24, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			so much fun watching Chelsea getting whacked &#62979;&#62541;
		
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Technically speaking, can you get whacked if you don't turn up?  If any of this lot pick up their wages they should be done for fraud.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 24, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not like he didn't have world class players to work with though is it?
		
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He's got pretty much the same squad as last season, and they conclusively proved they weren't up to the job then.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 24, 2016)

I don't know whether it's Chelsea looking slow and pedestrian tonight, but are Arsenal starting to move the ball quicker than they use to. So many more runners and they seem to be pinging the ball forward much quicker and not looking to find the perfect pass and picture book goal every time


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 24, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I don't know whether it's Chelsea looking slow and pedestrian tonight, but are Arsenal starting to move the ball quicker than they use to. So many more runners and they seem to be pinging the ball forward much quicker and not looking to find the perfect pass and picture book goal every time
		
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Chelsea have been slow & pedestrian for a good couple of seasons now, not just tonight.


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## sawtooth (Sep 24, 2016)

Happy Anniversary Wenger.

A fitting way to mark 20 years in charge.

:whoo::whoo::whoo:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 24, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Happy Anniversary Wenger.

A fitting way to mark 20 years in charge.

:whoo::whoo::whoo:
		
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Really? You've only beaten a mid table side.

Congratulations Mr Wenger.


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## JCW (Sep 24, 2016)

_ :thup:


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 24, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Really? You've only beaten a *mid table side*.

Congratulations Mr Wenger.
		
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Really;  were we that good?  I must have missed that bit.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 24, 2016)

Sat 3rd so guess AW will be happy with that come May season aim &#10004;&#65039;


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## Stuart_C (Sep 24, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Really;  were we that good?  I must have missed that bit. 

Click to expand...

Apparently, the league table doesn't lie.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 24, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Really? You've only beaten a mid table side.

Congratulations Mr Wenger.
		
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Apparently it was a big win for Liverpool v Chelsea &#128547;


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 24, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Really? You've only beaten a mid table side.

Congratulations Mr Wenger.
		
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Pin-seeker said:



			Apparently it was a big win for Liverpool v Chelsea &#63011;
		
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Only according to some Liverpool fans and not the one you quoted.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 24, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Apparently, the league table doesn't lie.
		
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I thought it didn't count until 10 games inâ€¦â€¦â€¦.


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## sawtooth (Sep 24, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Apparently, the league table doesn't lie.
		
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It can miislead though.

City are top but talk of being champions is a bit premature. I think people are getting carried away with the 'Guardiola' effect.  

They've had a pretty good run of fixtures to be fair. Next week at Spurs will be a toughie.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 24, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			I thought it didn't count until 10 games inâ€¦â€¦â€¦.
		
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I believe that to be the case but I based my comment on last season :cheers:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 24, 2016)

sawtooth said:



*It can miislead though.*

City are top but talk of being champions is a bit premature. I think people are getting carried away with the 'Guardiola' effect.  

*They've had a pretty good run of fixtures to be fair. Next week at Spurs will be a toughie.*

Click to expand...

You're correct, but my comment was based on last season's table 

Bit like Everton, they come up against a good football side and collapse :whoo:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 24, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			I thought it didn't count until 10 games inâ€¦â€¦â€¦.
		
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:clap: Touche :clap:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 24, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			:clap: Touche :clap:
		
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Get back in your box you, I was talking about last season's table were they actually finished 10th which is exactly mid table.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 24, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Get back in your box you, I was talking about last season's table were they actually finished 10th which is exactly mid table.
		
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I see Sakho was playing on twitter last night :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 24, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I see Sakho was playing on twitter last night :rofl:
		
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Snapchat actually :ears:

He's certainly doing himself no favours.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 24, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Get back in your box you, I was talking about last season's table were they actually finished 10th which is exactly mid table.
		
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Technically it's top half; you'd need an odd number of teams in the league to actually finish mid-tableâ€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦


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## Stuart_C (Sep 24, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Technically it's top half; you'd need an odd number of teams in the league to actually finish mid-tableâ€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦ 

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Bottom of top half?


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 24, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Bottom of top half?
		
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Yes, but still above the middle. :ears:  Which will be a darn sight better than this season unless he gets hold of them & quickly. :angry:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 24, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Yes, but still above the middle. :ears:  Which will be a darn sight better than this season unless he gets hold of them & quickly. :angry:
		
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Mid table it is then 

I think it's a much bigger Job than it looks to improve that squad without adding quality to it. That said,  the games I've seen there doesn't seem to be a proper plan of how he wants them to play.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 24, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Mid table it is then 

I think it's a much bigger Job than it looks to improve that squad without adding quality to it. That said,  the games I've seen there doesn't seem to be a proper plan of how he wants them to play.
		
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I don't think it's a coincidence that the performances have dropped since Terry's injury as Cahill seems incapable of thinking for himself and Ivanovic seems to lack the necessary gumption to captain the team.  I'd put Azpilicueta back to his correct side & bring in Alonso on the left as a start. 

As far as bringing people in, who'd want to come to a mid-table side; not the sort of people you'd need to increase the quality of that squad I'd suggest?  As for the plan, I think he knows how he wants them to play, I'm just not sure he has the personnel to do it, or that he trusts to do it, which isn't necessarily the same.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 24, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			I don't think it's a coincidence that the performances have dropped since Terry's injury as Cahill seems incapable of thinking for himself and Ivanovic seems to lack the necessary gumption to captain the team.  I'd put Azpilicueta back to his correct side & bring in Alonso on the left as a start. 

As far as bringing people in, who'd want to come to a mid-table side; not the sort of people you'd need to increase the quality of that squad I'd suggest?  As for the plan, I think he knows how he wants them to play, I'm just not sure he has the personnel to do it, or that he trusts to do it, which isn't necessarily the same.
		
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Problem is how many quality CB are their at the minute?
Not many young Terry/Ferdinand/Campbell or even Woodgates coming through.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 24, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Problem is how many quality CB are their at the minute?
Not many young Terry/Ferdinand/Campbell or even Woodgates coming through.
		
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I'd be willing to try Christensen & Kalas over Cahill & Ivanovic.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 24, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			I'd be willing to try Christensen & Kalas over Cahill & Ivanovic.
		
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TBH I'd try anybody over Cahill & Ivanovic.

Cahill as always been average & Terry made him look good. 
Ivanovic as been good but looks to have list it.


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## sawtooth (Sep 24, 2016)

Liverpool 11/2 second favourites for the PL title? They've had a great start but I think the bookies are having a laugh.

Man U and Arsenal 9/1 , Spurs 12/1


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## Stuart_C (Sep 24, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Liverpool 11/2 second favourites for the PL title? They've had a great start but I think the bookies are having a laugh.

Man U and Arsenal 9/1 , Spurs 12/1
		
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I agree way too short. A bookie prices everything in their own favour.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 24, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Liverpool 11/2 second favourites for the PL title? They've had a great start but I think the bookies are having a laugh.

Man U and Arsenal 9/1 , Spurs 12/1
		
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Going on current results I can see why they'd be second favourites. They look the 2nd best outfit in the league. No Europe as a distraction. Plus the bookies don't wanna get hammered, what with the amount that will lay bets as its #theiryear


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 25, 2016)

I can see city walking it &#128547;


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## JCW (Sep 25, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Liverpool 11/2 second favourites for the PL title? They've had a great start but I think the bookies are having a laugh.

Man U and Arsenal 9/1 , Spurs 12/1
		
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--:whoo:


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## Paperboy (Sep 25, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I believe that to be the case but I based my comment on last season :cheers:
		
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How was Karius in goal? Not got to see any highlights yet


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## Imurg (Sep 25, 2016)

Feel free to shout me down on this as I'm going from memory....
A week or two ago a player got a second yellow card for celebrating by going to be crowd and hugging fans...Palace player, maybe..?
Just watching MoTD re-run and when Sterling scores he changes direction and deliberately goes to a fan behind the goal for a clinch...doesn't get booked....
Apart from playing for a big club, what's the difference..??


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 25, 2016)

Paperboy said:



			How was Karius in goal? Not got to see any highlights yet
		
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It was 10 man Hull he should look a worldie .....


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 25, 2016)

Imurg said:



			Feel free to shout me down on this as I'm going from memory....
A week or two ago a player got a second yellow card for celebrating by going to be crowd and hugging fans...Palace player, maybe..?
Just watching MoTD re-run and when Sterling scores he changes direction and deliberately goes to a fan behind the goal for a clinch...doesn't get booked....
Apart from playing for a big club, what's the difference..??
		
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Referee inconsistency seem quite a bit of it yesterday in the highlights of the Swansea match!


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 25, 2016)

Just watched the highlights of the Liverpool v Hull. Cracking dive by Sturridge to win the second penalty.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2016)

Paperboy said:



			How was Karius in goal? Not got to see any highlights yet
		
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I never went yesterday, I'd already booked to play at Aberdovey in the pairs open before the fixtures came out.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			It was 10 man Hull he should look a worldie ..... 

Click to expand...

Won a a game gave yers?? 3 defeats and  we never seen yer :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Just watched the highlights of the Liverpool v Hull. Cracking dive by Sturridge to win the second penalty.
		
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Pen all-day long that, might've made a meal of it like they all do but it was a pen IMO.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 25, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Pen all-day long that, might've made a meal of it like they all do but it was a pen IMO.
		
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Take off the red specs, there was no contact, Sturridge saw the defenders leg come out and dived over it. Not the first time he's done it and won't be the last. He does do it with style though. They say that players should learn from those around him. Looks like Sturridge learnt loads from Gerrard and Suarez in the diving department.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Take off the red specs, there was no contact, Sturridge saw the defenders leg come out and dived over it. Not the first time he's done it and won't be the last. He does do it with style though. They say that players should learn from those around him. Looks like Sturridge learnt loads from Gerrard and Suarez in the diving department.
		
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There was contact.


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## sawtooth (Sep 25, 2016)

It's still cheating if the contact wasn't enough to take you down but you still go down .

Verdict - Dive 

They would still be talking about this if it was 0-0 at the time, as it is nobody really cares  because the game was well and truly won.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 25, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			There was contact.
		
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It's a bit early for panto season but.......Oh no there wasn't.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 25, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Just watched the highlights of the Liverpool v Hull. Cracking dive by Sturridge to win the second penalty.
		
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Just seen it and to put the record straight he did not learn that at Citeh.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			It's still cheating if the contact wasn't enough to take you down but you still go down .

Verdict - Dive 

They would still be talking about this if it was 0-0 at the time, as it is nobody really cares  because the game was well and truly won.
		
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How do you measure the contact for it to warrant a penalty?

Verdict- penalty.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			It's a bit early for panto season but.......Oh no there wasn't.
		
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It's all about opinion isn't it?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Just seen it and to put the record straight he did not learn that at Citeh.
		
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I agree, it was at Chelsea. After all he's played with two of the biggest culprits in recent history Drogba and Robben


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 25, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Won a a game gave yers?? 3 defeats and  we never seen yer :rofl:
		
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:ears: :ears:


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## sawtooth (Sep 25, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			How do you measure the contact for it to warrant a penalty?

Verdict- penalty.
		
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I think that I can tell the difference between having to go down and choosing to go down. Sturridge yesterday falls into the latter for me.

Other reference points are the player reactions  the defender looked aggrieved, Sturridge looked sheepish. 

And was Sturridge going to score? was he going anywhere? Not really.

Add it all together and you have to say that he felt the contact and took full advantage. It's not the worst kind of cheating because I think the player at least  made contact. A professional dive if there is such a thing.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I think that I can tell the difference between having to go down and choosing to go down. Sturridge yesterday falls into the latter for me.

Other reference points are the player reactions  the defender looked aggrieved, Sturridge looked sheepish. 




			What did you want him to do? Roll over 14times holding his ankle pretending to be in pain?
		
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And was Sturridge going to score? was he going anywhere? Not really.




			The defender shouldn't have thrown a stupid tackle in then but This is irrelevant, it's a foul in the box. Pen.
		
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Add it all together and you have to say that he felt the contact and took full advantage. It's not the worst kind of cheating because I think the player at least  made contact. A professional dive if there is such a thing.
		
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We both agree there was contact, Colchester says there wasn't. Funny isn't it we all see things differently.


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## sawtooth (Sep 25, 2016)

Why would he be pretending if he was kicked? Anyway I  would expect him to be a little bit miffed or upset that the defender hurt him or deprived him of a goal scoring opportunity. 

Truth is the tackle did neither hence why Sturridge looked the way he did, looked almost worried as if the ref could have given it either way. In my humble opinion.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Why would he be pretending if he was kicked? Anyway I  would expect him to be a little bit miffed or upset that the defender hurt him or deprived him of a goal scoring opportunity.



			why would you expect that given you said earlier he was going nowhere.  I didn't realise you was a body language expert.
		
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Truth is the tackle did neither hence why Sturridge looked the way he did, looked almost worried as if the ref could have given it either way. In my humble opinion.
		
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You're entitled to your opinion, but it was a pen, the ref saw it in real time and gave it. Sturridge's reaction had no affect on the decision.


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## sawtooth (Sep 25, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			You're entitled to your opinion, but it was a pen, the ref saw it in real time and gave it. Sturridge's reaction had no affect on the decision.
		
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Eh? Never mind mate it's all about opinions.

I'm a neutral in this I'm I just saying that I thought Sturridge dived with the minute amount of contact. You can't be in the jury as you are friends of the accused.


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## Hobbit (Sep 25, 2016)

I've watched the Sturridge dive on Sky and MOTD, in real time and slo-mo. I can't tell if there's contact or not. That said, it certainly looks like a pen, and Sturridge made sure it looked like a pen.

Did he dive? No, I don't think he did but I do think he exaggerated contact.


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## sawtooth (Sep 25, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			I've watched the Sturridge dive on Sky and MOTD, in real time and slo-mo. I can't tell if there's contact or not. That said, it certainly looks like a pen, and Sturridge made sure it looked like a pen.

Did he dive? No, I don't think he did but I do think he exaggerated contact.
		
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Well that clears it up Brian, lol.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Eh? Never mind mate it's all about opinions.

I'm a neutral in this I'm I just saying that I thought Sturridge dived with the minute amount of contact. You can't be in the jury as you are friends of the accused.
		
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I'd like to think I'm fair across the board when it comes to decisions and incidents. If it was a dive and no contact then I'd say something like I have in the past on here. 

Like I've asked previously, how do we measure what's enough contact for a pen?


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## freddielong (Sep 25, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I'd like to think I'm fair across the board when it comes to decisions and incidents. If it was a dive and no contact then I'd say something like I have in the past on here. 

Like I've asked previously, how do we measure what's enough contact for a pen?
		
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The problem is it would take a lot more to bring down a Giroud or a sturridge than it would say a Sterling or a Walcott so is it fair that a foul on one isn't a foul on the other, so I can see both sides, that said it doesn't sit right with me when a player chooses to go down.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 25, 2016)

freddielong said:



			The problem is it would take a lot more to bring down a Giroud or a sturridge than it would say a Sterling or a Walcott so is it fair that a foul on one isn't a foul on the other, so I can see both sides, that said it doesn't sit right with me when a player chooses to go down.
		
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You can't have watched Sturridge play very often. It takes very little to bring down a Sturridge. And sometimes it takes nothing, other than a defender being in the same postcode for him to go down.


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## sawtooth (Sep 25, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I'd like to think I'm fair across the board when it comes to decisions and incidents. If it was a dive and no contact then I'd say something like I have in the past on here. 

Like I've asked previously, how do we measure what's enough contact for a pen?
		
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It's not measured but like I said before you can normally tell if someone falls as a result of the actual contact versus someone causing themselves to go to ground because of a contact.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2016)

freddielong said:



			The problem is it would take a lot more to bring down a Giroud or a sturridge than it would say a Sterling or a Walcott so is it fair that a foul on one isn't a foul on the other, so I can see both sides, that said it doesn't sit right with me when a player chooses to go down.
		
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Exactly. We can't measure so every decision given some will be right and some will be wrong. It's the blatantly obvious decisions that annoys me not just for us but football in general. 

It seems that players have to go down to get the decisions, Andy Gray was always banging on when he was on sky, "go down and give the ref something to think about " was his usual comment.

How do we get rid of this problem?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 25, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Exactly. We can't measure so every decision given some will be right and some will be wrong. It's the blatantly obvious decisions that annoys me not just for us but football in general. 

It seems that players have to go down to get the decisions, Andy Gray was always banging on when he was on sky, "go down and give the ref something to think about " was his usual comment.

How do we get rid of this problem?
		
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The only way you'll get Clubs to take it serious is to take points off them, I know it's extreme and completely unlikely but to me fines and individual bans are no good, taking points could be the difference between between promotion/relegation/league position, european qual etc and could cost them millions. Only clubs can sort this out.


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## freddielong (Sep 25, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			The only way you'll get Clubs to take it serious is to take points off them, I know it's extreme and completely unlikely but to me fines and individual bans are no good, taking points could be the difference between between promotion/relegation/league position, european qual etc and could cost them millions. Only clubs can sort this out.
		
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Exactly there has to be a post game panel with the power to ban players and remove points for repeat offenders, as soon as clubs start loosing players and points it will stop overnight.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 25, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			The only way you'll get Clubs to take it serious is to take points off them, I know it's extreme and completely unlikely but to me fines and individual bans are no good, taking points could be the difference between between promotion/relegation/league position, european qual etc and could cost them millions. Only clubs can sort this out.
		
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They tried that in the CL and the club concerned cried unfair and just claimed its wasn't a deliberate dive and threatened the court of arbitration for sport


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 25, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Just watched the highlights of the Liverpool v Hull. Cracking dive by Sturridge to win the second penalty.
		
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Agreed, 20 rows in front of me at the match, and didnt think it was there either. Poor.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			They tried that in the CL and the club concerned cried unfair and just claimed its wasn't a deliberate dive and threatened the court of arbitration for sport
		
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Let me guess, it was one of those dirty cheating,corrupt  European teams right?


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 25, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Other reference points are the player reactions  the defender looked aggrieved, Sturridge looked sheepish. 

And was Sturridge going to score? was he going anywhere? Not really.
		
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I'll agree overall that I think it was a dive.

However, the two things you say above are rubbish and have no bearing on rules, or interpretation.

Defenders have also become the biggest cheats in football, appealing for decisions when they know they have had the last touch.

If it is a foul in the box, it doesnt matter if he was going anywhere or not its is still a penalty (or not). It may have a bearing on if it is a red or yellow, but thats a load of rubbish on the actual foul decision.

Can you point out in the rules where it says about direction of travel, or how a ref should read the body language of a player's guilt?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Agreed, 20 rows in front of me at the match, and didnt think it was there either. Poor.
		
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If you were closer you'd have seen the foul


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 25, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			If you were closer you'd have seen the foul

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I'll have to take my red specs back, they obviously arent working properly. 

It was right in front of me, and sometimes even close enough to hear contact, but my first reaction at the match was to think that he dived/no contact.

I dont think the camera angles prove 100% conclusively either way, but overall I think a dive, or very minimal contact and not enough to go down.


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## sawtooth (Sep 25, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'll agree overall that I think it was a dive.

However, the two things you say above are rubbish and have no bearing on rules, or interpretation.

Defenders have also become the biggest cheats in football, appealing for decisions when they know they have had the last touch.

If it is a foul in the box, it doesnt matter if he was going anywhere or not its is still a penalty (or not). It may have a bearing on if it is a red or yellow, but thats a load of rubbish on the actual foul decision.

Can you point out in the rules where it says about direction of travel, or how a ref should read the body language of a player's guilt?
		
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It's called a motive.

If Sturridge was 6 yards out with the open goal gaping and he goes down. What then? 

It's a powerful indicator that he did not intend to go down. 

Of course it has a bearing on the decision making. It does in law so why shouldn't it here?

The majority of dives and dodgy decisions are when there is no clear advantage to staying on your feet. Its common sense really.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 25, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			It's called a motive.

If Sturridge was 6 yards out with the open goal gaping and he goes down. What then? 

It's a powerful indicator that he did not intend to go down. 

Of course it has a bearing on the decision making. It does in law so why shouldn't it here?

The majority of dives and dodgy decisions are when there is no clear advantage to staying on your feet. Its common sense really.
		
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I'm sorry, but people do go down when there isnt the advantage, not often, but they do.

You still cant point it out in the rules, though.

How many times have you seen a defender foul someone and massively appeal to the ref that they didnt? Loads of times. The cheats arent just attackers anymore.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 25, 2016)

Yet another Liverpool player caught up in a diving debate&#128580;.

The Liverpool way &#128514;


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## sawtooth (Sep 25, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'm sorry, but people do go down when there isnt the advantage, not often, but they do.

You still cant point it out in the rules, though.

How many times have you seen a defender foul someone and massively appeal to the ref that they didnt? Loads of times. The cheats arent just attackers anymore.
		
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I'm saying most of the time people will go down when there is no advantage, they have more to gain with the penalty.

I can't see that many strikers will dive when they are nailed on to score.

Of course it's not conclusive either way but like I say it is a pointer and if I was a ref I would take that into consideration in questionable cases.

Sturridge wasn't going to score yesterday so it makes it more likely that he dived or that he was looking for it in my book.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 25, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yet another Liverpool player caught up in a diving debate&#128580;.

The Liverpool way &#128514;
		
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That's a pretty lazy and poor attempt at a wind up/trolling. Every club has players that dive and to suggest that it's one club's way just to get a reaction from supporters of that club is pretty childish.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 25, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			That's a pretty lazy and poor attempt at a wind up/trolling. Every club has players that dive and to suggest that it's one club's way just to get a reaction from supporters of that club is pretty childish.
		
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Not to worry


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 25, 2016)

Billic for England?


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 25, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			That's a pretty lazy and poor attempt at a wind up/trolling. Every club has players that dive and to suggest that it's one club's way just to get a reaction from supporters of that club is pretty childish.
		
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Leave him be, matey.

Its his reason to get out of bed in the morning, although how he gets away with it constantly for 3 years is beyond me, on here.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 25, 2016)

Can we play you every week!


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 25, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Can we play you every week!
		
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That was very impressive that, should have been 5 or 6.

Can we put our name down for Van Dijk in your January sale. Him and Forster got me 11 fantasy league points also.:whoo:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2016)

Great result for Southampton thoroughly deserved. 

West Ham were shocking, that Zaza up front looks bad.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 25, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			That was very impressive that, should have been 5 or 6.

Can we put our name down for Van Dijk in your January sale. *Him and Forster got me 11 fantasy league points also*.:whoo:
		
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Ditto, Van Dijk as captain too.

I've a feeling he will be on his way next summer. Forster i'm not so sure as he would probably cost too much.

Felt we rode it a bit with a few 50/50 pen calls, but we could easily of had more.


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## Hacker Khan (Sep 25, 2016)

Just had the misfortune of listening to 606. Christ, they must be desperate for contributors if those that get on make the grade. It's like care in the community in the radio.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 25, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			Just had the misfortune of listening to 606. Christ, they must be desperate for contributors if those that get on make the grade. It's like care in the community in the radio.
		
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Are you referring to those who phone in or the hosts?


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## One Planer (Sep 25, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Are you referring to those who phone in or the hosts?
		
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:rofl:


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 25, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Let me guess, it was one of those dirty cheating,corrupt  European teams right?
		
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:thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 25, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Liverpool 11/2 second favourites for the PL title? They've had a great start but I think the bookies are having a laugh.

Man U and Arsenal 9/1 , Spurs 12/1
		
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Who would you put behind City right now in terms of second favs then ? 

Considering the start we have had and the way we are playing right I think it's a fair statement at the moment to say we are leading the group behind City


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 25, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who would you put behind City right now in terms of second favs then ? 

Considering the start we have had and the way we are playing right I think it's a fair statement at the moment to say we are leading the group behind City
		
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Maybe the other 2 teams above you at the moment that also finished above you last season?&#129300;


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## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			:thup:
		
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Italian or Spanish?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Maybe the other 2 teams above you at the moment that also finished above you last season?&#129300;
		
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The bookies wouldn't stand the 12/1 for Liverpool to win it regardless of what you or anybody else think. 11/2 is way too short for me to punt  but I'd load the wheelbarrow at 12's.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 25, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			The bookies wouldn't stand the 12/1 for Liverpool to win it regardless of what you or anybody else think. 11/2 is way too short for me to punt  but I'd load the wheelbarrow at 12's.
		
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You been on the ale la?


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 25, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Italian or Spanish?
		
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Cockney


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 25, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			The bookies wouldn't stand the 12/1 for Liverpool to win it regardless of what you or anybody else think. 11/2 is way too short for me to punt  but I'd load the wheelbarrow at 12's.
		
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It might be 12's after 10 games, that's when it starts to count isn't it :thup:


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 25, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Let me guess, it was one of those dirty cheating,corrupt  European teams right?
		
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pbrown7582 said:



			:thup:
		
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Stuart_C said:



			Italian or Spanish?
		
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Largely French.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Cockney
		
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Arsenal??

It was probably Chelsea's fault.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			You been on the ale la?
		
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No.

My book would be

City  4/6
Everton 5/2
Arsenal 6/1
Yernited 7/1
Spurs 8/1 
Liverpool 10/1

66/1 bar

11/2 we're way too short, anything above 10's I'd get involved but it's a volatile market and there can be a massive over reaction to a couple of poor results aswell as a over reaction to some good results like now where 11/2.

What price do you Think  we should be?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			It might be 12's after 10 games, that's when it starts to count isn't it :thup:
		
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That's the issue with this market, it can change very quickly after a couple of results.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 25, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			No.

My book would be

City  4/6
Everton 5/2
Arsenal 6/1
Yernited 7/1
Spurs 8/1 
Liverpool 10/1

66/1 bar

11/2 we're way too short, anything above 10's I'd get involved but it's a volatile market and there can be a massive over reaction to a couple of poor results.

What price do you Think  we should be?
		
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Everton 5/2 &#128514; No more special brew for this man. 
Typical Liverpool fan playing down the expectations.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Everton 5/2 &#128514; No more special brew for this man. 
*Typical Liverpool fan playing down the expectations.*

Click to expand...

Alright


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## sawtooth (Sep 25, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who would you put behind City right now in terms of second favs then ? 

Considering the start we have had and the way we are playing right I think it's a fair statement at the moment to say we are leading the group behind City
		
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United for starters, and probably both Spurs and Arsenal.

You lot finished 8th last year and it's only 6 games in - really mean odds 11/2 it's a strange one.

Bookies obviously placing big emphasis on the fact that you don't have European football.
But you would be a mug to take 11/2 at this stage on Liverpool IMO.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			United for starters, and probably both Spurs and Arsenal.

You lot finished 8th last year and it's only 6 games in - really mean odds 11/2 it's a strange one.

Bookies obviously placing big emphasis on the fact that you don't have European football.
But you would be a mug to take 11/2 at this stage on Liverpool IMO.
		
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Leicester won it last year and were 33/1 this year. We were 10's to start with.

The bookies price it in their favour and there'll be loads of people jumping on the bandwagon without really looking at the true price/value.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 26, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			United for starters, and probably both Spurs and Arsenal.

You lot finished 8th last year and it's only 6 games in - really mean odds 11/2 it's a strange one.

Bookies obviously placing big emphasis on the fact that you don't have European football.
But you would be a mug to take 11/2 at this stage on Liverpool IMO.
		
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Do you mean the same United having their ups and downs in regards form , Arsenal who we have already beaten away from home ,Spurs who managed to just snatch a draw ? 

I have no idea about odds but going on form and the results and the way we are playing I think it's a fair reflection to have us second favs.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 26, 2016)

Are there any real Liverpool supporters that believe they will win the league and actually back them with their hard earned,i seriously doubt it.

11/2 for 2nd only is stupid odds let alone winning.
History shows Liverpool will be way behind first place and I hope that continues


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## One Planer (Sep 26, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you mean the same United having their ups and downs in regards form , Arsenal who we have already beaten away from home ,Spurs who managed to just snatch a draw ? 

I have no idea about odds but going on form and the results and the way we are playing I think it's a fair reflection to have us second favs.
		
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I would have thought bookies would also look at previous league finishes as a 'guide'.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 26, 2016)

The season is 6 games old. Most leagues show a form guide during full seasons that cover approx 6-8 games. 

So going by that alone Liverpool are merely the 4th most in form team. Add that to their usual finishes and 2nd favs is purely bookies knowing how well they will be backed by optimistic fans. So they are covering their backsides in case it happens. 

It's all good beating arsenal and being unlucky drawing at Spurs. But a league table, much like a scorecard shows how many (points) not how they're accumlated. A fortunate draw for Spurs against pool is still worth 1 more than an unlucky defeat at Burnley.....


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## Stuart_C (Sep 26, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Are there any real Liverpool supporters that believe they will win the league and actually back them with their hard earned,i seriously doubt it.

11/2 for 2nd only is stupid odds let alone winning.
History shows Liverpool will be way behind first place and I hope that continues
		
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On paper that squad isn't good enough imo but football isn't played on paper.  

I believe we'll win every game we play because that's what a supporter is supposed to do. Believe. 

At the minute we've had a couple of good performances but we can improve no doubt.

I'd back us at 12's  but I wouldn't touch  us with your money @11/2.  The bookies don't give nothing away so I'm not surprised to see us so short. We've also played 3 tough away games against Arsenal,Chelsea and Spurs and have looked good in all 3 of them, put the champions to bed and swept aside hull, it's only the disappointing result at Burnley that has been a negative thus far. 

It'll be tough to dislodge City off top spot with the strength in depth they've got but I'm quite happy up-to now.  Only time will tell.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 26, 2016)

One Planer said:



			I would have thought bookies would also look at previous league finishes as a 'guide'.
		
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You'd think so wouldn't you, but they still had Chelsea around 4/1 at the start of the season despite last year's debacle. Based on the last few years Liverpool should be 100/1 but the bookies wouldn't offer that because whether we agree or not Liverpool are a threat.


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## Kellfire (Sep 26, 2016)

As a Man Utd fan it's not fun to say but Klopp has that side playing some great attacking football. Squad depth and the back line are the question marks for me - I can see that team losing a few more stupid games through lack of clinical finishing and stupid defensive lapses but they'll win way more than they lose in my opinion. I also think some people are playing above their normal level and I wonder what would happen if a couple of key players lost form at the same time.

Obviously I hope I am wrong and they bomb in spectacular fashion!


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## stokie_93 (Sep 26, 2016)

So close to 3 points yet so far. Knew as soon as we conceded that corner they'd score.

Much better performance tainted by a lapse in concentration.
United away next week, we'll win that knowing our lot.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 26, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			United for starters, and probably both Spurs and Arsenal.

You lot finished 8th last year and it's only 6 games in - really mean odds 11/2 it's a strange one.

Bookies obviously placing big emphasis on the fact that you don't have European football.
But you would be a mug to take 11/2 at this stage on Liverpool IMO.
		
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I agree with regards to the odds being way short.

I'd also not fully endorse us being second favourites, but bookies odds are also based on what money has been placed on, and as the 2nd best supported club in the Uk, maybe there have been lots of reds placing on us.


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## sawtooth (Sep 28, 2016)

Talking of strange odds, Celtic 9/1 at home tonight. 

You don't see that very often.


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## Slime (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Talking of strange odds, Celtic 9/1 at home tonight. 

You don't see that very often.
		
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I wouldn't touch them at less than 100/1.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Talking of strange odds, Celtic 9/1 at home tonight. 

You don't see that very often.
		
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Is that how many they will concede. &#128563;


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## ger147 (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Talking of strange odds, Celtic 9/1 at home tonight. 

You don't see that very often.
		
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If they finish within 3 goals of Man C they'll have done OK, and I'm from the green half of Glasgow...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 28, 2016)

Great start at Celtic Park!


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 28, 2016)

Barca currently screwing my bet up


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 28, 2016)

Cracking game, ManC and Celtic playing Scottish style tonight.:lol:


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## Tashyboy (Sep 28, 2016)

Stonker of a game for the neutral north of Adrian's wall. As a Citeh fan ave no toenails left to chew on.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 28, 2016)

Get in Barca!!!


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## Tashyboy (Sep 28, 2016)

Yup that was a stonker of a game.


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## Fish (Sep 28, 2016)

Would seem the Liverpool stadium may now not get further expanded if fans complain about ticket prices, the article is basically saying, if you don't accept a hike in ticket prices, they'll be no further expansion as it won't be economically viable! 

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/c481...ol-reassesses-further-anfield-expansion-after


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## sawtooth (Sep 29, 2016)

Fish said:



			Would seem the Liverpool stadium may now not get further expanded if fans complain about ticket prices, the article is basically saying, if you don't accept a hike in ticket prices, they'll be no further expansion as it won't be economically viable! 

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/c481...ol-reassesses-further-anfield-expansion-after

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I thought that they would be over subscribed and have a waiting list for season tickets. Is that not the case?

Can't be all that well supported after all ;-) Build it and they will come surely?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 29, 2016)

Fish said:



			Would seem the Liverpool stadium may now not get further expanded if fans complain about ticket prices, the article is basically saying, if you don't accept a hike in ticket prices, they'll be no further expansion as it won't be economically viable! 

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/c481...ol-reassesses-further-anfield-expansion-after

Click to expand...

Just like I predicted 

These owners want a quick ROI on everything they "invest" in. 

The failure to sell out the corporate tickets in the new stand hasn't helped the case, but to blame the fans for that walkout just sums up where their true feelings lie.

This confirms their long term plans for the club under their investment....


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## Stuart_C (Sep 29, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I thought that they would be over subscribed and have a waiting list for season tickets. Is that not the case?

Can't be all that well supported after all ;-) Build it and they will come surely?
		
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It'd take 15 yrs for them to get their ROI if they just  sold general ST's. They want Corporates in their and the demand isn't high enough.

If they backed the managers properly and the team was successful then I think the corporate demand might be there.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 29, 2016)

I think it is a fair response from the club. They are including the fans in the decision. They can increase the size of the ground but there is a price to pay. If you are happy to pay it then we will do it. If you aren't then we wont.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 29, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Supposedly the Road end, I'll show my arse in woolies window if that happens.
		
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Looking like I won't have to travel to find a woolies..


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## Stuart_C (Sep 29, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think it is a fair response from the club. They are including the fans in the decision. They can increase the size of the ground but there is a price to pay. If you are happy to pay it then we will do it. If you aren't then we wont.
		
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No they're not, they're protecting themselves and making sure that any monies they put in they get it back quickly plus more. Ive questioned their motives re ownership of us and it's decisions like this I'm right to.

They bought us for below  market value, they've put very little of their own money in and its market value today is circa Â£1bn.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 29, 2016)

A lot of conclusions being made from a one off sentence

Can't see again what it is they have said that's wrong 

They will include the fans in any further descions about ground extension


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 29, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I thought that they would be over subscribed and have a waiting list for season tickets. Is that not the case?

Can't be all that well supported after all ;-) Build it and they will come surely?
		
Click to expand...

Yes it is the case, but if you read it properly (and between the lines), it is more or less saying if we could charge Â£60.00 per ticket instead of, say Â£45 it is a more profitable investment.

Dont worry, we would fill it.:thup:

BTW - nowhere in that article does it say that they will consult the fans.

I also don't agree with the new market pool system, introduced by UEFA. Why should Liverpool/Man U earn more money for winning it than say Arsenal/City/leicester? Not right.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 29, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Looking like I won't have to travel to find a woollies, with a massive window.
		
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:thup:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 29, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A lot of conclusions being made from a one off sentence

Can't see again what it is they have said that's wrong 

They will include the fans in any further descions about ground extension
		
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The fact that JW Henry rarely speaks is a clue in itself, if he'd had said nothing nobody would've been surprised.
'


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## sawtooth (Sep 29, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			It'd take 15 yrs for them to get their ROI if they just  sold general ST's. They want Corporates in their and the demand isn't high enough.

If they backed the managers properly and the team was successful then I think the corporate demand might be there.
		
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Didn't they back BR properly? Easy to say that but if the gamble doesn't pay off you would be in the mire very quickly.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 29, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes it is the case, but if you read it properly (and between the lines), it is more or less saying if we could charge Â£60.00 per ticket instead of, say Â£45 it is a more profitable investment.

Dont worry, we would fill it.:thup:

BTW - nowhere in that article does it say that they will consult the fans.

I also don't agree with the new market pool system, introduced by UEFA. Why should Liverpool/Man U earn more money for winning it than say Arsenal/City/leicester? Not right.
		
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At Â£60 per ticket it still wouldn't return enough in the 5yr framework they currently work under.itd probably cost Â£60-80m  to rebuild that Stand. They're not interested in getting more real fans in. Dont forget the famous  sweetspot quote from Sure.

They want corporates.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 29, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Didn't they back BR properly? Easy to say that but if the gamble doesn't pay off you would be in the mire very quickly.
		
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Did they?

More like got rid of his best players and top earners. 

Example: Pepe Reina was sold and Mingolet brought in on less money and half the keeper Reina was.


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## sawtooth (Sep 29, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Did they?
		
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IDK it was a question. Seemed to spend a bit from what I remember. Lallana, Lovren, Ballotelli.

Using your own logic would it have been wise for Liverpool to have really really backed him with say Â£500M ? You might be in trouble now if BR was as bad as you all make out. It's a good job the board were cautious then?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 29, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Did they?

More like got rid of his best players and top earners. 

Example: Pepe Reina was sold and Mingolet brought in on less money and half the keeper Reina was.
		
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Sorry but you can't blame the owner for the players the manager signs - BR was the one that got rid of Pepe and bought Ming not the owners 

Come on Stu we have spent plenty of money


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## Stuart_C (Sep 29, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but you can't blame the owner for the players the manager signs - BR was the one that got rid of Pepe and bought Ming not the owners 

Come on Stu we have spent plenty of money
		
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Come on Phil you're not that niave. 

Reina was a much better keeper in every single department than Mignolet and he suited BRs style perfectly,why else was he pushed out? 

You're  like what sawtooth is with  wenger to our investors, you defend everything they say.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 29, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Come on Phil you're not that niave. 

Reina was a much better keeper in every single department than Mignolet and he suited BRs style perfectly,why else was he pushed out? 

You're  like what sawtooth is with  wenger to our investors, you defend everything they say.
		
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Sorry Stu but you have nothing to back up that Pepe was forced out by the owners - 

Right now I can't complain about the owners because I don't see what they are doing wrong - they are doing everything they said they would and have backed the managers 

I'm not exactly sure what sort of owners you want


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## Kellfire (Sep 29, 2016)

Mignolent was fantastic before he joined Liverpool. Reina was always vastly overrated by Liverpool fans and he was certainly on the decline by the time he went.

At the time it seemed a good swap - hindsight is 20/20.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 29, 2016)

Mignolet was a cracking shot stopper at Sunderland. They way they defended gave him plenty of chance to show off those skills and he saved them many a point. I think his weaknesses at Liverpool is on crosses, something Sunderland dealt better with. Liverpool didn't do their homework on him well enough to see if he would suit their style of defending.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 29, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			IDK it was a question. Seemed to spend a bit from what I remember. Lallana, Lovren, Ballotelli.

Using your own logic would it have been wise for Liverpool to have really really backed him with say Â£500M ? You might be in trouble now if BR was as bad as you all make out. It's a good job the board were cautious then?
		
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Good old hindsight Eh. 

He was given money yes but we failed to replace Suarez etc


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## Stuart_C (Sep 29, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Mignolent was fantastic before he joined Liverpool. *Reina was always vastly overrated by Liverpool fans and he was certainly on the decline by the time he went.*

At the time it seemed a good swap - hindsight is 20/20.
		
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No he wasn't.  Might've been the armchair talksport phone in fans who were saying that but people who I went the match with and around always rated Pepe.

12 months prior Arsenal bid Â£20m for him and he was lined up to replace Valdes at BarÃ§a so he couldn't have been that bad.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 29, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			It'd take 15 yrs for them to get their ROI if they just  sold general ST's. They want Corporates in their and the demand isn't high enough.

If they backed the managers properly and the team was successful then I think the corporate demand might be there.
		
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most places have excess corporate seats to meet demand every week yes they can sell out for half a dozen games a season.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 29, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes it is the case, but if you read it properly (and between the lines), it is more or less saying if we could charge Â£60.00 per ticket instead of, say Â£45 it is a more profitable investment.

Dont worry, we would fill it.:thup:

BTW - nowhere in that article does it say that they will consult the fans.

I also don't agree with the new market pool system, introduced by UEFA. Why should Liverpool/Man U earn more money for winning it than say *Arsenal/City/leicester*? Not right.
		
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shouldn't worry that's not to happen


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 29, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Did they?

More like got rid of his best players and top earners. 

Example: Pepe Reina was sold and Mingolet brought in on less money and *half the keeper *Reina was.
		
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that explains his problem catching cross he cant reach them.......


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## JCW (Sep 29, 2016)

-----


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## Stuart_C (Sep 29, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry Stu but you have nothing to back up that Pepe was forced out by the owners - 

Right now I can't complain about the owners because I don't see what they are doing wrong - they are doing everything they said they would and have backed the managers 

*I'm not exactly sure what sort of owners you want*

Click to expand...

Owners who are in it for the long haul and not just a return on their investment. 

You shot me down when I suggested that they'll be looking to sell in the near future, telling me about phase 2 of the big rebuild etc and how great they are.

Phase 2 wont happen.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 29, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Owners who are in it for the long haul and not just a return on their investment. 

You shot me down when I suggested that they'll be looking to sell in the near future, telling me about phase 2 of the big rebuild etc and how great they are.

Phase 2 wont happen.
		
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If they are looking to sell then why haven't they sold to the Chinese who are looking to buy for over Â£700mil ? 

They have said they are not looking to sell ?


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 29, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Mignolet was a cracking shot stopper at Sunderland. They way they defended gave him plenty of chance to show off those skills and he saved them many a point. I think his weaknesses at Liverpool is on crosses, something Sunderland dealt better with. Liverpool didn't do their homework on him well enough to see if he would suit their style of defending.
		
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Keepers who play in struggling teams can always look great.

Brad Friedel was the same. When they have to save 10-15 shots a game and they save loads, and only let 1-2 in, they look worldies.

A difference between a Clemence or a Cech, when they only fact 2-3 a game but expect to keep a clean sheet.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 29, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If they are looking to sell then why haven't they sold to the Chinese who are looking to buy for over Â£700mil ? 

They have said they are not looking to sell ?
		
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Because the club is valued at Â£1bn, and they were offered Â£300m less.

Those comments from Henry re the ticket pricing issue is a swipe at the fans. It seems they'll build the stand for 4th he money/corporates but the Riff Raff fans can do one.

I don't believe them. They'll sell once they get their Â£1bn


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 29, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Keepers who play in struggling teams can always look great.

Brad Friedel was the same. When they have to save 10-15 shots a game and they save loads, and only let 1-2 in, they look worldies.

A difference between a Clemence or a Cech, when they only fact 2-3 a game but expect to keep a clean sheet.
		
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Agreed. Plenty of examples as you describe. Gomes is similar at the moment, looking great at Watford but mistakes were highlighted at Spurs.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 29, 2016)

Is anyone watching the Man Utd game tonight? 75% possession but not a single shot on target in the first 40 minutes. Only viewing the BBC live text so not seen any of the game but they are suggesting it's similar to the football played under Van Gaal with lots of possession and passing but most of it is sideways and backwards.


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## SaintHacker (Sep 29, 2016)

Happy with tonights result. Not a classic game by any stretch but a point away at a difficult place to go, top of the group and with a game against Inter next, who seem totally uninterested in the competition


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 29, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Is anyone watching the Man Utd game tonight? 75% possession but not a single shot on target in the first 40 minutes. Only viewing the BBC live text so not seen any of the game but they are suggesting it's similar to the football played under Van Gaal with lots of possession and passing but most of it is sideways and backwards.
		
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The opposition are running their legs off and Utd are constantly giving the ball away, complete bore fest Zzzzzzzz


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 29, 2016)

6 foot 5 Swedish hero.....


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 29, 2016)

Southampton assistant manager Eric Black named in Telegraph investigation. Just breaking on Sky News


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## SaintHacker (Sep 29, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Southampton assistant manager Eric Black named in Telegraph investigation. Just breaking on Sky News
		
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Yep, already a statement on the club website about it. If a certain H. Redknapp comes out of this unscathed I will be beyond amazed...


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 29, 2016)

SaintHacker said:



			Yep, already a statement on the club website about it. If a certain H. Redknapp comes out of this unscathed I will be beyond amazed...
		
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Well he managed to slip out of the inland Revenue's graspâ€¦.. or was that his dog, I forget.


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## sawtooth (Sep 29, 2016)

Has he managed during this investigation though?


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 30, 2016)

How wide is this Telegraph investigation? Seems to be affecting more and more clubs. Is the game inherently rotten and bent, is it the paper simply making its own buck and selling copy or is it a few greedy and corrupt managers? Off the back of FIFA's issues it's not good


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## sawtooth (Sep 30, 2016)

Trapping people as unsavoury as it sounds actually will have a positive effect on the game. It will certainly make people think twice which is not a bad thing.

It happens in most sports , where there's money there's corruption and greed. Look at John Higgins , set up big time. Willing to throw snooker matches in return for cash.


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## ger147 (Sep 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Trapping people as unsavoury as it sounds actually will have a positive effect on the game. It will certainly make people think twice which is not a bad thing.

It happens in most sports , where there's money there's corruption and greed. Look at John Higgins , set up big time. Willing to throw snooker matches in return for cash.
		
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Just for sake of accuracy, Higgins was found not guilty of match fixing. He admitted and was banned on a disrepute charge for not reporting the approach to the WPBSA.


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## Hobbit (Sep 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Trapping people as unsavoury as it sounds actually will have a positive effect on the game. It will certainly make people think twice which is not a bad thing.
QUOTE]

I too don't have a problem with entrapment providing its governed, and isn't done by someone without a commercial interest in the outcome. This is a big story that sells copy. The Telegraph will sell more copy the juicier the story is. Also, are investigative journalists professionally trained to investigate in an unbiased manner, or are they chasing the juicy bits?

Its a tough one to reconcile. My hope is that if the authorities do take onboard the evidence they also question the methodology and outcomes.
		
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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 30, 2016)

I heard a journalist talking about these methods this week. You can not set up an "entrapment" meeting off the cuff. There has to be reasonable suspicions in the first place. These are not just fishing trips, they are targetted. 

I would not expect big clubs to be as affected now as surely managers don't get involved in the money side of transfers etc. There are chief execs, director of football etc who do this. It should only be low level clubs where managers are still involved. Maybe wrong but that is my perception.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 30, 2016)

Lively match at Goodison. Plenty of pace on display. 

Has Lennon kicked Ronnie's dog? Had a good season for us last year, can't get a kick this year.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 30, 2016)

Definitely hand ball, bit of luck, but I'll take it &#128515;


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 30, 2016)

I'm happy to argue it was still a free kick. The foul of the high boot happened before the handball. Decision stands.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 30, 2016)

Can anyone explain the point of Cleverly? I don't see what he does, what is his thing?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 30, 2016)

Palace played much better in the 2nd half and had the better chances, not completely sure what the Palace 2nd goal was disallowed for.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 30, 2016)

They had a bloke who ran in front of the keeper and did a feeble jump, possibly pulled out. He was deemed as interfering as it was right in front of the keepers eyeline.

Not our finest tonight so will take a point. Would have liked to have seen Delofeu have a run in the last 20. Koeman was too cautious tonight.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 30, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They had a bloke who ran in front of the keeper and did a feeble jump, possibly pulled out. He was deemed as interfering as it was right in front of the keepers eyeline.

Not our finest tonight so will take a point. Would have liked to have seen Delofeu have a run in the last 20. Koeman was too cautious tonight.
		
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He wasn't in squad, took a knock last week.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 30, 2016)

Ha ha, fair enough. I didn't see the pre match chat as I was watching the golf. What's the score with Lennon though? Is he injured?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 30, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ha ha, fair enough. I didn't see the pre match chat as I was watching the golf. What's the score with Lennon though? Is he injured?
		
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On the bench, not used, international break then Man City next.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 30, 2016)

Benteke 

What happened to the flag  "Ross is boss"?? It should be changed to  "Ross was boss"


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 30, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Benteke 

What happened to the flag  "Ross is boss"?? It should be changed to  "Ross was boss" 

Click to expand...

Just goes to show how decent Benteke is when you play to his strengths, another player you let slip


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## Stuart_C (Oct 1, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Just goes to show how decent Benteke is when you play to his strengths, another player you let slip 

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He doesn't do much for us and he's a waste of money,  he scores against your lot and he's decent striker?? 

Turn it in. I see normal service has resumed at woodison:rofl:

Ross was boss....


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 1, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			He doesn't do much for us and he's a waste of money,  he scores against your lot and he's decent striker?? 

Turn it in. I see normal service has resumed at woodison:rofl:

Ross was boss....
		
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He's only played for them 5 times and already got a third of what he scored for you's, good record at every club he's played for except one.............all his fault though :clap: :clap:


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## Stuart_C (Oct 1, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			He's only played for them 5 times and already got a third of what he scored for you's, good record at every club he's played for except one.............*all his fault though* :clap: :clap:
		
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Whoelse's fault is it? His performances were poor as was his workrate. Flat track bully imo.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 1, 2016)

Benteke's strengths were clear to see at Villa. They are clear at Palace. Liverpool wanted him to play a different way. Where is the sense in that? Liverpool took a round peg and tried to fit him in a square hole. Palace have put him back in a round hole.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 1, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Benteke's strengths were clear to see at Villa. They are clear at Palace. Liverpool wanted him to play a different way. Where is the sense in that? Liverpool took a round peg and tried to fit him in a square hole. Palace have put him back in a round hole.
		
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I agree and I said at the time how confused I was that we signed him as he wasn't a Rodgers type player. That said some of his performances were poor and that was down to the lack of effort and desire to be successful. 

Surely an international footballer can play more than one way? We got our almost all of our money back on him anyway.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 1, 2016)

They should but then you are not playing to their strengths. Imagine lumping high balls up to Messi? I agree it was just an odd signing for your style of play. He didn't put himself out but then maybe he realised he didn't fit and his heart wasn't in it. Players need to feel wanted. As you say, you got most of your money back so you did okay.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 1, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I agree and I said at the time how confused I was that we signed him as he wasn't a Rodgers type player. That said some of his performances were poor and that was down to the lack of effort and desire to be successful. 

Surely an international footballer can play more than one way? We got our almost all of our money back on him anyway.
		
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I would go further Stu and say he was never a Liverpool player.

I have mostly know Liverpool to play with the ball on the ground and imo whoever sanctioned a move for Benteke got it majorly wrong,however it also would have been passed by others as well.

The same has happened at Utd over the last few years where we were all about speed before but now we have had players that are pedestrian to say the least.

Maybe things are starting to change and Jose can see we are too slow in our build up.

The way Liverpool play under Klopp he likes to press and has fit players and its working.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 1, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I agree and I said at the time how confused I was that we signed him as he wasn't a Rodgers type player. That said some of his performances were poor and that was down to the lack of effort and desire to be successful. 

Surely an international footballer can play more than one way? We got our almost all of our money back on him anyway.
		
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So your then manager bought a player who didn't fit in and then had no desire and showed a lack of effort and was one dimensional.

But you got your money back so still the players fault.

Or, it was a panic buy and as it didn't workout, still blame the player.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 1, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			I would go further Stu and say he was never a Liverpool player.

I have mostly know Liverpool to play with the ball on the ground and imo whoever sanctioned a move for Benteke got it majorly wrong,however it also would have been passed by others as well.

The same has happened at Utd over the last few years where we were all about speed before but now we have had players that are pedestrian to say the least.

Maybe things are starting to change and Jose can see we are too slow in our build up.

The way Liverpool play under Klopp he likes to press and has fit players and its working.
		
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I get all that Tony, but to accuse Benteke of showing a lack of effort and no desire to be succesful is poor.

Isn't it a club's responsibility to manage these people and communicate what's expected.

He never lost his fitness, maintained his international place and was worth 30+ Mil, surely people in the game looking in to buy players would see that so his value was maintained.

Fair enough on Klopp he inherited him, but rather than simply say the club messed up they blame the player.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 1, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I get all that Tony*, but to accuse Benteke of showing a lack of effort and no desire to be succesful is poor.
*
Isn't it a club's responsibility to manage these people and communicate what's expected.

He never lost his fitness, maintained his international place and was worth 30+ Mil, surely people in the game looking in to buy players would see that so his value was maintained.

Fair enough on Klopp he inherited him, but rather than simply say the club messed up they blame the player.
		
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No it's not. I saw it with my own eyes, he was often the furthest player away from the box when we attacked. 

That Exeter game was a typical example. If he put himself about a bit more like Origi did then maybe  he'd have played more.

To accuse me of blaming the player and not the club is out of order, I've been consistent in questioning the clubs transfer policy. You only get out what you put in.

BTW he didn't maintain his international place, he was sub an origi was getting on before him.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 1, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			No it's not. I saw it with my own eyes, he was often the furthest player away from the box when we attacked. 

That Exeter game was a typical example. If he put himself about a bit more like Origi did then maybe  he'd have played more.

To accuse me of blaming the player and not the club is out of order, I've been consistent in questioning the clubs transfer policy. You only get out what you put in.

BTW he didn't maintain his international place, he was sub an origi was getting on before him.
		
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Why did he lose his form at Liverpool?
Why wasn't he in the correct positions?
He has been included in every Belgium squad for the last 4 years.

You have questioned the club's transfer policy, I'm talking about 1 player not every transfer.
Why would a player with an average of a goal every 2 games worth 35 Mil suddenly change at the new club.

I'd agree every club make signings that don't work out, but to put all the blame on the player, as you are with Benteke, is unfair, he's a decent player who when used to his strengths is an asset, or did LPool buy him to change the way he plays?


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 1, 2016)

Benteke was a mistake buy by Liverpool. However he never showed any sort of desire to push himself, like his team-mates. It may well be a case of not exactly playing to his strengths, but surely as a player you would put in the effort to contribute to the team result regardless of whether they are playing 100% to your own prefered style or not.
 If you constantly show a lack of interest to try your hardest you aren't going to stay long at that club.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 1, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Why did he lose his form at Liverpool?
Why wasn't he in the correct positions?
He has been included in every Belgium squad for the last 4 years.

You have questioned the club's transfer policy, I'm talking about 1 player not every transfer.
Why would a player with an average of a goal every 2 games worth 35 Mil suddenly change at the new club.

I'd agree every club make signings that don't work out, but to put all the blame on the player, as you are with Benteke, is unfair, he's a decent player who when used to his strengths is an asset, or did LPool buy him to change the way he plays?
		
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When we bought crouch off Southampton he came in didn't  score for 15 games but every single week he gave 100% and his workrate and effort was there every game.  He scored a flukey one against Wigan and then he kicked on. 

That never happened with Benteke, when  a player is struggling to score which they all do as long as they put the effort in and graft then fans accept it.

I didn't rate Benteke at the time and watching him and his posistions/runs he makes  live I still don't think he's as good as his record suggests.

As for playing to his strengths or fitting into our style at the time, when the player was approached, he knew exactly how Liverpool played and the chances were we'd carry on playing that way so surely has asked himself can I change? 

Benteke has found his level.


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## garyinderry (Oct 1, 2016)

The atmosphere surrounding benteke stunk from the beginning. 

From the fans to the management.  Liverpool management refusing to simply put some crosses into the box as shown many times in his early pool career that there was many opportunities to put the ball in but never did.  Many fans didn't take to him on signing and turned their nose up at the thought of slinging in a cross or two. He could sense from the crowd he wasn't wanted.

He stopped making runs, got disheartened, got dropped, lost confidence, missed sitters, dropped again, overlooked when no strikers fit and eventually shown the door. 

Liverpool were lucky to get their money back on him.  No chance would I pay the money they did when its clear they wanted rid.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 1, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			The atmosphere surrounding benteke stunk from the beginning. 

From the fans to the management.  Liverpool management refusing to simply put some crosses into the box as shown many times in his early pool career that there was many opportunities to put the ball in but never did.  Many fans didn't take to him on signing and turned their nose up at the thought of slinging in a cross or two. He could sense from the crowd he wasn't wanted.

He stopped making runs, got disheartened, got dropped, lost confidence, missed sitters, dropped again, overlooked when no strikers fit and eventually shown the door. 

Liverpool were lucky to get their money back on him.  No chance would I pay the money they did when its clear they wanted rid.
		
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But how many teams play the old school way of down the wings then cross? Most now try the tippee tappee pass it down the centre route. However whichever style of play is chosen you as a player have to give your all, and that is something Benteke never did.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 1, 2016)

Bunkermagnet said:



			But how many teams play the old school way of down the wings then cross? Most now try the tippee tappee pass it down the centre route. However whichever style of play is chosen you as a player have to give your all, and that is something Benteke never did.
		
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So they bought him without discussing plans and style of play they envisaged and went it went wrong it was Benteke's fault! Were was the management of him, the club still valued him at 30Mil, hell of a valuation for a disheartened, disinterested player.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 1, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So your then manager bought a player who didn't fit in and then had no desire and showed a lack of effort and was one dimensional.

But you got your money back so still the players fault.

Or, it was a panic buy and as it didn't workout, still blame the player.
		
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Hard one to call Paul but imo the main blame imo would have to go with the manager that bought him because he would have to be the one who integrates him into the clubs playing system.

If the manager had to change the team so much into a different playing system just to incorporate one player that would be madness.

Benteke probably would have been told where he would have played and how he was going to fit in before signing,however knowing this and then signing he has to give everything,and for this I'm with Stu because at the end he didn't,no difference to Torres at Chelsea,both in the end were scared to go anywhere near the box for the fear of messing up.

Saying all this Liverpool have done this before with Andy Carroll and that looks like a bigger mistake than Benteke ever was and I believe King Kenny sanctioned that move[but I could be wrong].


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 1, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Hard one to call Paul but imo the main blame imo would have to go with the manager that bought him because he would have to be the one who integrates him into the clubs playing system.

If the manager had to change the team so much into a different playing system just to incorporate one player that would be madness.

Benteke probably would have been told where he would have played and how he was going to fit in before signing,however knowing this and then signing he has to give everything,and for this I'm with Stu because at the end he didn't,no difference to Torres at Chelsea,both in the end were scared to go anywhere near the box for the fear of messing up.

Saying all this Liverpool have done this before with Andy Carroll and that looks like a bigger mistake than Benteke ever was and I believe King Kenny sanctioned that move[but I could be wrong].
		
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:thup: I would still class him as decent though, failing to reach the standards or whatever was required at LPool doesn't make him a bad player, just a bad signing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 1, 2016)

Well that's game we would have lost over the last couple of seasons , bit of a battle and scrappy but three points in the bag.


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## davemc1 (Oct 1, 2016)

Phew, was hard work. Good dig in performance when things weren't going well. 

Worryingly, it seems we've bought another keeper with an aversion to crosses &#128078;


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## Stuart_C (Oct 1, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Phew, was hard work. Good dig in performance when things weren't going well. 

Worryingly, it seems we've bought another keeper with an aversion to crosses &#128078;
		
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Give him a chance yer pleb.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 1, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Give him a chance yer pleb.
		
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Maybe Dave's got the same feelings towards Karius as you had with Benteke :rofl: :whoo:


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 1, 2016)

Benteke  - It depends on if you want to believe the type of player you think he is, or the actual player he is.

Only 19 of his 54 goals have been with his head, so he's not just a big lump up front, he also has speed, power and aggression on his day.

One thing that Liverpool were accused of after Chelsea did their number on us, was not having a plan B, so it was felt that we also needed an aerial threat.

I wanted Benteke.

He'd always impressed me at Villa, and always played well against us, and him being a 1-in-2 striker, who also offered a physical presence was just what we needed.

I dont think we played to ALL his strengths. We didnt slip him in enough, when he was in a good position. The types of passes that we would always give Sturridge in the same positions, with the same body shape (on the inside of the full back, away from the CB and giving it the......go on slip me in). We werent doing it enough.

Managers fault, team mates fault, yes, and he probably stopped making them runs in due course as a result. 

However as time went on he was not putting a shift in, and looked out of sorts. He'd also stopped winning headers, started missing one-on-ones and being easily knocked off the ball and just like Torres at Chelsea, no longer looked the confident, quick, barn-storming player he had looked previously.

I think it was a mix of all at fault, but to get our money back wasnt a bad thing, although still think he can be awesome on his day, and I will be worried when we play against him.

If you think Liverpool should have just been throwing aimless crosses in every two minutes to him and changing their style, or he was just a one-dimensional player, sorry your wrong.

Check out his goals for Villa.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 1, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Benteke  - It depends on if you want to believe the type of player you think he is, or the actual player he is.

Only 19 of his 54 goals have been with his head, so he's not just a big lump up front, he also has speed, power and aggression on his day.

One thing that Liverpool were accused of after Chelsea did their number on us, was not having a plan B, so it was felt that we also needed an aerial threat.

I wanted Benteke.

He'd always impressed me at Villa, and always played well against us, and him being a 1-in-2 striker, who also offered a physical presence was just what we needed.

I dont think we played to ALL his strengths. We didnt slip him in enough, when he was in a good position. The types of passes that we would always give Sturridge in the same positions, with the same body shape (on the inside of the full back, away from the CB and giving it the......go on slip me in). We werent doing it enough.

Managers fault, team mates fault, yes, and he probably stopped making them runs in due course as a result. 

However as time went on he was not putting a shift in, and looked out of sorts. He'd also stopped winning headers, started missing one-on-ones and being easily knocked off the ball and just like Torres at Chelsea, no longer looked the confident, quick, barn-storming player he had looked previously.

I think it was a mix of all at fault, but to get our money back wasnt a bad thing, although still think he can be awesome on his day, and I will be worried when we play against him.

If you think Liverpool should have just been throwing aimless crosses in every two minutes to him and changing their style, or he was just a one-dimensional player, sorry your wrong.

Check out his goals for Villa.
		
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Fair one&#128515;


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## Piece (Oct 1, 2016)

Excellent game today, Wat v Bou. End to end, both sides wanting to win, with good quality passing.


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## sawtooth (Oct 1, 2016)

Piece said:



			Excellent game today, Wat v Bou. End to end, both sides wanting to win, with good quality passing.
		
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How did Wilshere do for Bournemouth?


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## Kellfire (Oct 2, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			How did Wilshere do for Bournemouth?
		
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Well he tested their woodwork...


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## sawtooth (Oct 2, 2016)

Blatant dive by Sturridge yesterday, or is that another one where we are unfair to the player (like last week)?

Maybe we need to measure the contact to be sure eh Stu?


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## sawtooth (Oct 2, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Well he tested their woodwork...
		
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Unlucky with the first effort,should have scored the second one. 4 starts in a row and getting closer to finishing 90 minutes. Fingers crossed for him.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Blatant dive by Sturridge yesterday, or is that another one where we are unfair to the player (like last week)?

Maybe we need to measure the contact to be sure eh Stu? 

Click to expand...

I've seen much much worse from Arsenal forwards


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## sawtooth (Oct 2, 2016)

Now I finally know what gegenpress is.

When you are in the box press against the defender and go down. ;-)


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Now I finally know what gegenpress is.

When you are in the box press against the defender and go down. ;-)
		
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I haven't a clue what you're  about.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 2, 2016)

Sturridge fell down far to easy, just as every striker does in the box. It's been a cancer within the game since Francis Lee years back.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 2, 2016)

Major opportunity to close the gap today missed especially after City losing.

Have not seen the game yet did anyone watch and have a match report.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 2, 2016)

congrats spuds. Brought there A game today and beat a city team that was running at D level. Said it before and will say it again. Fernando and Fernandinho together are pants. Spuds ripped them two apart last year and did it again today. If a couple of chances had dropped today would of been a smash and grab for city, but deserved three points for spuds.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 2, 2016)

Very impressed with the desire and intensity of Spurs today. Thoroughly deserved that win


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## fundy (Oct 2, 2016)

Horrid performance from Arsenal, but we'll take the late goal


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 2, 2016)

Can't believe Arsenal won that with a goal that was handball and offside. I bet Burnley are gutted.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 2, 2016)

Er how can you give a goal when it is bundled in with you arms above your head. Disgusting decision. Ref bottled it.


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## Kellfire (Oct 2, 2016)

Handball was accidental but a mile offside. Shocking they missed that!


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## sawtooth (Oct 2, 2016)

We won ugly today real ugly! Can't be hand ball as he couldn't do anything about it. 

Burnley played really well, Sean Dyche for England?


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 2, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			We won ugly today real ugly! *Can't be hand ball as he couldn't do anything about it. *

Burnley played really well, Sean Dyche for England?
		
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I don't think I've ever seen that in the laws of the game. Isn't it normally if the "hand is in an unnatural position" when they talk about whether it's a penalty for handball? For instance if your arm is by your side and it hits you then it's not a penalty but if it's up in the air or sticking out then it is. Koscielny's arms were up and it's definitely handball.


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## freddielong (Oct 2, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			I don't think I've ever seen that in the laws of the game. Isn't it normally if the "hand is in an unnatural position" when they talk about whether it's a penalty for handball? For instance if your arm is by your side and it hits you then it's not a penalty but if it's up in the air or sticking out then it is. Koscielny's arms were up and it's definitely handball.
		
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Oh well we have more go against us than we get so who cares, 3 points move on.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 2, 2016)

Scrappy win and probably undeserved but if you want to be in with a title shout these ugly 1-0's are what you need.


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## freddielong (Oct 2, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Scrappy win and probably undeserved but if you want to be in with a title shout these ugly 1-0's are what you need.
		
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Absolutely dominated possession chances and the game but undeserved.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 2, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Oh well we have more go against us than we get so who cares, 3 points move on.
		
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Really? I can only assume that post was typed with your tongue firmly in your cheek. You can't seriously be suggesting that Arsenal get more dodgy decisions against them than for them over the course of the season.


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## freddielong (Oct 2, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Really? I can only assume that post was typed with your tongue firmly in your cheek. You can't seriously be suggesting that Arsenal get more dodgy decisions against them than for them over the course of the season.
		
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Arsenal are treated dreadfully by refs and have many many more decisions go again than for, we have even had a ref celebrate a goal against us.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 2, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Absolutely dominated possession chances and the game but undeserved.
		
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But did they really look like scoring??? Only three shots on target


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## freddielong (Oct 2, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But did they really look like scoring??? Only three shots on target
		
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If we are the only team trying to win it can't be undeserved when we do.


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## sawtooth (Oct 2, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But did they really look like scoring??? Only three shots on target
		
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I wouldn't have complained with a point, Arsenal could have quite easily lost that game. Burnley were great.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 2, 2016)

freddielong said:



			If we are the only team trying to win it can't be undeserved when we do.
		
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Yes it can, when you win 1-0 and the goal that wins it for you is handball and offside.


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## JCW (Oct 2, 2016)

- :thup:     .........EYG


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## freddielong (Oct 2, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Yes it can, when you win 1-0 and the goal that wins it for you is handball and offside.
		
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Oh well, fortunately what you think means nothing and we get 3 points


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## sawtooth (Oct 2, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Yes it can, when you win 1-0 and the goal that wins it for you is handball and offside.
		
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It wasn't offside , Chamberlain never touched it. 

Handball maybe.  I don't think he could have seen the ball leaving his own foot and then reacting by handling it deliberately. It all happened too fast and the player was unaware IMO.


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## Kellfire (Oct 2, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			It wasn't offside. .
		
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Wow.


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## sawtooth (Oct 2, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Wow.
		
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Wow what? Please explain who was offside and why.


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## freddielong (Oct 2, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Wow.
		
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Have a look at it again Kosh is onside (boyd plays him on) he plays it onto his own elbow, probably handball but definitely not offside.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 2, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Arsenal are treated dreadfully by refs and have many many more decisions go again than for, we have even had a ref celebrate a goal against us.
		
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Was the ref a Homer?


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 2, 2016)

Didnt an Arsenal fan this week say that part of your decision should be based on a player's reaction?

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...-of-a-handball-during-late-winner-for-arsenal


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2016)

freddielong said:



			If we are the only team trying to win it can't be undeserved when we do.
		
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To say Burnley didn't try is disrespectful.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2016)

Spurs taking 3pts off City done everybody else a favour, I can't see them losing too many this season.

I wonder what's happened to Hose A's magic touch??


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## freddielong (Oct 2, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			To say Burnley didn't try is disrespectful.
		
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Oh shut up


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Oh shut up
		
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That's a very grown up response isn't it?


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## freddielong (Oct 2, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			That's a very grown up response isn't it?
		
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Has the golf finished so your going back to being a muppet on the football thread


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Has the golf finished so your going back to being a muppet on the football thread
		
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Haha you're very brave throwing insults about, have you been on the Bushys again?? 

Keyboard warrior.


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## freddielong (Oct 2, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha you're very brave throwing insults about, have you been on the Bushys again?? 

Keyboard warrior.
		
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Ok yes that must be it &#128077;


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Ok yes that must be it &#128077;
		
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Thought it was either that or your mum has told you to switch the internet off because it's getting late now and  you won't get up in the morning for school and you've become a big hard case.

I'd get to bed and sleep it off before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

Goodnight


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## freddielong (Oct 2, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Thought it was either that or your mum has told you to switch the internet off because it's getting late now and  you won't get up in the morning for school and you've become a big hard case.

I'd get to bed and sleep it off before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

Goodnight
		
Click to expand...

What are you on about?


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2016)

freddielong said:



			What are you on about?
		
Click to expand...

When you sober up tomorrow you'll realise, if you don't pm me and I'll draw you a picture.

Good night hard case.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 2, 2016)

I tell you what, that Burnley had some chances considering they weren't trying.


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## Slime (Oct 2, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Arsenal are treated dreadfully by refs and have many many more decisions go again than for, we have even had a ref celebrate a goal against us.
		
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:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Oh my God, what have you been drinking tonight?
I want some.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I tell you what, that Burnley had some chances considering they weren't trying.
		
Click to expand...

They hit the bar too. Unlucky to lose it to a scruffy goal in the dying seconds but that's football.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2016)

Slime said:



			:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Oh my God, what have you been drinking tonight?
I want some.
		
Click to expand...

Dont, you'll start throwing insults about


----------



## freddielong (Oct 2, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Dont, you'll start throwing insults about 

Click to expand...

You started with the trolling


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 2, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Freddielong hit the bar too. Unlucky to lose it to a scruffy goal in the dying seconds but that's handball.
		
Click to expand...

What you really wanted to type.:rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 2, 2016)

Glenn Johnson back in the England squad due to Clyne's injury.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2016)

freddielong said:



			You started with the trolling
		
Click to expand...

You're very childish tonight, bushys bitter must be too strong for you.

As for Trolling?? 

Get over yourself, I quoted something you posted and was prepared to have a reasoned debate on why you thought Burnley didn't try to win even though sawtooth said they were very good then you told me to shut up and insulted me. 

Goodnight hard case.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Glenn Johnson back in the England squad due to Clyne's injury.
		
Click to expand...

I like GJ, he became a bit of a scapegoat the last 2seasons for us, a bit like RB is now for your lot.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			What you really wanted to type.:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Not at all, you know me if I want to say it, I do.

That wasn't deliberate handball neither.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 2, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I like GJ, he became a bit of a scapegoat the last 2seasons for us, a bit like RB is now for your lot.
		
Click to expand...

Ross is not playing well mate and once again omitted from squad, can't believe Johnson is the next best after Clyne, Ox-Chamb back in as well, I think Southgate has his favourites


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 2, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Not at all, you know me if I want to say it, I do.

That wasn't deliberate handball neither.
		
Click to expand...

They were definitely in a unnatural position!


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 2, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Not at all, you know me if I want to say it, I do.

That wasn't deliberate handball neither.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, it wasnt offside either.:thup:


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Ross is not playing well mate and once again omitted from squad, can't believe Johnson is the next best after Clyne, Ox-Chamb back in as well, I think Southgate has his favourites
		
Click to expand...

I agree Ross isn't pulling up trees but listening to blues who actually go the game, they can't wait to blame him.

It's sad really as he's still relatively young but all of the criticism (some unfair ) won't help him through this bad spell.

Name me a better fit English RB than Clyne?


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			They were definitely in a unnatural position!
		
Click to expand...

It still wasn't Deliberate Handball!!!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 2, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			It still wasn't Deliberate Handball!!!
		
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Didn't say it was, don't start with your exclamation marks at me, keyboard warrior :whoo:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 2, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I agree Ross isn't pulling up trees but listening to blues who actually go the game, they can't wait to blame him.

It's sad really as he's still relatively young but all of the criticism (some unfair ) won't help him through this bad spell.

Name me a better fit English RB than Clyne?
		
Click to expand...

What you on? Clyne is the best, don't think Johnson is next after him.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Didn't say it was, don't start with your exclamation marks at me, keyboard warrior :whoo:
		
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Stop trolling then!!!!!!


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			What you on? Clyne is the best, don't think Johnson is next after him.
		
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I've had  1 bottle of Heineken and 4cups of builders tea.

Answer the question fgs?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 2, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Stop trolling then!!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

More exclamation marks? Don't start on me as Freddies gone off :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			More exclamation marks? Don't start on me as Freddies gone off :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Answer the question then.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 2, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I've had  1 bottle of Heineken and 4cups of builders tea.

Answer the question fgs?
		
Click to expand...

I answered it, Clyne is the best, therefore there isn't a better one!


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I answered it, Clyne is the best, therefore there isn't a better one!
		
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Who is fit now.?????????


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 2, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Who is fit now.?????????
		
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Oh a new question!
Kyle Walker

Edit 
I'd like to see Danny Simpson of Leicester getting a chance.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 2, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Stop trolling then!!!!!!
		
Click to expand...




Stuart_C said:



			Who is fit now.?????????
		
Click to expand...

Yes son, I fought in the great punctuation wars of 23.50-23.54.:ears:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 2, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes son, I fought in the great punctuation wars of 23.50-23.54.:ears:
		
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:clap: :clap: :clap:


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## Stuart_C (Oct 3, 2016)

Pauljd12659871398528



Stuart_C said:




Name me a better fit English RB than Clyne?
		
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FFS this is the question I asked you.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 3, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes son, I fought in the great punctuation wars of 23.50-23.54.:ears:
		
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Yer pleb.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 3, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			FFS this is the question I asked you.
		
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That reads BETTER THAN CLYNE, you should've asked INSTEAD OF CLYNE.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 3, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Yer pleb.
		
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They were the neutrals.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 3, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			That reads BETTER THAN CLYNE, you should've asked INSTEAD OF CLYNE.
		
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I thought the FIT part of the question would be a giveaway.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 3, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I thought the FIT part of the question would be a giveaway.
		
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No it wasn't&#128515; But after all that, what about me answers?


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## Stuart_C (Oct 3, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			No it wasn't&#128515; But after all that, what about me answers?
		
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They're not better than GJ.


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## Piece (Oct 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			How did Wilshere do for Bournemouth?
		
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Only just saw this.. He was OK, playing better the further forward he was. Did he influence the game? Not really. Ran out of legs and was promptly subbed after missing an easy chance.


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## sawtooth (Oct 3, 2016)

Piece said:



			Only just saw this.. He was OK, playing better the further forward he was. Did he influence the game? Not really. Ran out of legs and was promptly subbed after missing an easy chance.
		
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He is still short on fitness obviously but seems to be making slow but steady progress. Seems like they don't want him to play a full 90 at the moment which is sensible.

Could have got a couple of goals as well which is good to see.


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## jp5 (Oct 3, 2016)

Not sure how you can say Arsenal have been treated badly by referees over the years. Perhaps if you only consider the bad decisions and none of the good ones. 

Probably worth speaking to some of the smaller teams we've played over the years and see if they'd agree with that!

It was harsh on Burnley to concede after restricting us to just 2 shots on target, but ultimately nothing wrong with the goal!


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## davemc1 (Oct 3, 2016)

jp5 said:



			Not sure how you can say Arsenal have been treated badly by referees over the years. Perhaps if you only consider the bad decisions and none of the good ones. 

Probably worth speaking to some of the smaller teams we've played over the years and see if they'd agree with that!

It was harsh on Burnley to concede after restricting us to just 2 shots on target, but ultimately nothing wrong with the goal!
		
Click to expand...

Apart from the handball which knocked a shot in that looked like was going over...

It was a tough call at the time, it just didnt look right. But you get them your happy,  they go against you, youd be spitting feathers


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## stokie_93 (Oct 3, 2016)

Glen Johnson is a great player and if you ask me got way too much stick at Liverpool. Not the best defensively by any stretch of the imagination but brilliant going forward and a reliable solid player. Links up brilliantly with Shaqiri for us. 

However saying that, Walker would be my first choice with Clyne behind him.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 3, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Glen Johnson is a great player and if you ask me got way too much stick at Liverpool. Not the best defensively by any stretch of the imagination but brilliant going forward and a reliable solid player. Links up brilliantly with Shaqiri for us. 

However saying that, Walker would be my first choice with Clyne behind him.
		
Click to expand...

He's better defensively than he's given credit for imo.

I don't think Walker is better than clyne, he seems to lose his position quite easily when I've watched him.


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## davemc1 (Oct 3, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Glen Johnson is a great player and if you ask me got way too much stick at Liverpool. Not the best defensively by any stretch of the imagination but brilliant going forward and a reliable solid player. Links up brilliantly with Shaqiri for us. 

However saying that, Walker would be my first choice with Clyne behind him.
		
Click to expand...

He cant be that great then :rofl:

To be fair, he did take a lot of stick. Too much for me, but his last season with us was his worst. Good time for him to move on.

I always thought he was best siuted to a wing back, much like moreno is now. Doesnt seem a popular system anymore though


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## jp5 (Oct 3, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Apart from the handball which knocked a shot in that looked like was going over...

It was a tough call at the time, it just didnt look right. But you get them your happy,  they go against you, youd be spitting feathers
		
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Whether they're for or against us I'd look to see the rule guidelines to see if the correct decision was made.

As far as I can tell, handball has to be deliberate to be an offence - unlike say, tripping, where an accidental offence is still a foul.


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## stokie_93 (Oct 3, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			He cant be that great then :rofl:

To be fair, he did take a lot of stick. Too much for me, but his last season with us was his worst. Good time for him to move on.

I always thought he was best siuted to a wing back, much like moreno is now. Doesnt seem a popular system anymore though
		
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Moreno is a truly horrendous footballer :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 3, 2016)

jp5 said:



			Whether they're for or against us I'd look to see the rule guidelines to see if the correct decision was made.

As far as I can tell, handball has to be deliberate to be an offence - unlike say, tripping, where an accidental offence is still a foul.
		
Click to expand...

The guidance for Referees include if the hands are in an unnatural position as FIFA do not explain what "Deliberate Handall" actually means, so the ball may of hit his hands, but where were his hands when the ball struck them.


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## One Planer (Oct 3, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			The guidance for Referees include if the hands are in an unnatural position as FIFA do not explain what "Deliberate Handall" actually means, so the ball may of hit his hands, but where were his hands when the ball struck them.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe he keeps his hands there all the time


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## davemc1 (Oct 3, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Moreno is a truly horrendous footballer :rofl:
		
Click to expand...


Nooo, Moreno is a truly horrendous lb, which in all honesty isn't good for a defender &#128561;

futher forward he could be the next Gareth bale...  Which of course is a joke, but you get the general idea


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## stokie_93 (Oct 3, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Nooo, Moreno is a truly horrendous lb, which in all honesty isn't good for a defender &#63025;

futher forward he could be the next Gareth bale...  Which of course is a joke, but you get the general idea
		
Click to expand...

Good job you've got Milner. Wouldn't surprise me if the lad could play in net.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 3, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Good job you've got Milner. Wouldn't surprise me if the lad could play in net.
		
Click to expand...

I genuinely think that there is no better LB in the prem at the moment, than Milner.


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 3, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I genuinely think that there is no better LB in the prem at the moment, than Milner.
		
Click to expand...


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 3, 2016)

Guidolin gone, Bradley in. Slightly strange choice as he has never managed over here. I think most people thought Giggs was a shoe in. I like Swansea, seems a decent well run club, so I hope he kick starts them.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 3, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:





Click to expand...

Go on then (and you cant get Glen Johnson to switch sides).


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## stokie_93 (Oct 3, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Go on then (and you cant get Glen Johnson to switch sides).

Click to expand...

Danny Rose naming 1.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 3, 2016)

Leighton Baines naming 2


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## stokie_93 (Oct 3, 2016)

Nacho Monreal naming 3


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 3, 2016)

Cresswell - naming 4


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 3, 2016)

Fuchs - naming 5


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## stokie_93 (Oct 3, 2016)

Ryan Bertrand - 6
Cesar Azipilacueta - 7


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 3, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Ryan Bertrand - 6
Cesar Azipilacueta - 7
		
Click to expand...

:clap: :clap: :clap:


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## stokie_93 (Oct 3, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			:clap: :clap: :clap:
		
Click to expand...

Gael Clichy - 8


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## Stuart_C (Oct 3, 2016)

Liverbirdie has just left himself wide open, what a tool  :rofl:

I hope cresswell  returns to his form after this injury, he looked superb last season.


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## stokie_93 (Oct 3, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Liverbirdie has just left himself wide open, what a tool  :rofl:

I hope cresswell  returns to his form after this injury, he looked superb last season.
		
Click to expand...

yeah was a shame about his injury, if he and Luke Shaw also can both hit form we've got two great wing backs for England.

Of course with Glen Johnson on the other side


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 3, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Liverbirdie has just left himself wide open, what a tool  :rofl:

I hope cresswell  returns to his form after this injury, he looked superb last season.
		
Click to expand...

Hard to resist :whoo:


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 3, 2016)

So has Herrera got away with this shocker then ? No retrospective action then 

http://www.90min.in/posts/3883201-v...off-with-ridiculously-high-tackle?a_aid=35135


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 3, 2016)

Come on Phil you know the rules around this one. The ref saw it and booked him so they can't take any action. Shocking challenge though.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 3, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Come on Phil you know the rules around this one. The ref saw it and booked him so they can't take any action. Shocking challenge though.
		
Click to expand...

Very true - so got away with it due to the poor ref who also seemed to do nothing about this as well 

http://www.90min.in/posts/3882740-v...e-allen-with-referee-1-metre-away?a_aid=35135

Is he the new Howard Webb ?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 3, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Very true - so got away with it due to the poor ref who also seemed to do nothing about this as well 

http://www.90min.in/posts/3882740-v...e-allen-with-referee-1-metre-away?a_aid=35135

Is he the new Howard Webb ?
		
Click to expand...

Well the video seems to be showing the ref blowing for a foul.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 3, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Well the video seems to be showing the ref blowing for a foul.
		
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So if he has blown for a foul do you think that Stoke would have had a free kick ? Instead of a corner to Utd ? 

Guess what happened next


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 3, 2016)

I wonder what Joe Allen has done to upset Man Utd players. He certainly didn't seem their favourite person from those two clips.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 3, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So if he has blown for a foul do you think that Stoke would have had a free kick ? Instead of a corner to Utd ? 

Guess what happened next
		
Click to expand...

Personally I couldn't care less.

Looking at a video clip in isolation means nothing. I have watched football (live) for over 50 years and one thing throughout that time remains constant. We all think that refs are wrong and that some teams get the better of it when it comes to decisions.

Spurs in the 60's, Liverpool in the 70's & 80's, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea ; it's a constant. What's new?


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 3, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Well the video seems to be showing the ref blowing for a foul.
		
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I don't think the ref can give a foul as the ball wasn't in play. Was probably blowing to stop the corner being taken. Would like to see that from another angle to see if Allen did anything and also what the ref did next.


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## Slime (Oct 3, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So if he has blown for a foul do you think that Stoke would have had a free kick ? Instead of a corner to Utd ? 

Guess what happened next
		
Click to expand...


Don't pretend to be surprised, Phil, you know full well what happened and why a free kick wasn't awarded to Stoke.
Stop playing the faux confused card.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 3, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Leighton Baines naming 2
		
Click to expand...

Been a class player in the past, but this season?


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 3, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Cresswell - naming 4
		
Click to expand...

Injured this season - again I did say currently.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 3, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Ryan Bertrand - 6
Cesar Azipilacueta - 7
		
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Bertrand I'll give you is a good player, Azpilacueta, not so sure.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 3, 2016)

Slime said:



			Don't pretend to be surprised, Phil, you know full well what happened and why a free kick wasn't awarded to Stoke.
Stop playing the faux confused card.
		
Click to expand...

So why wasn't Pogba shown a card for putting his hands up onto someone and throwing them to the ground - right in front of the ref ? An act of the football field that has seen multiple players at the very least yellow card but by the letter of the law should have been sent off.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 3, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Gael Clichy - 8
		
Click to expand...

Now you can pack right in - average at best.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 3, 2016)

Bob Bradley appointed at Swansea. Interesting appointment and first American to manage in the PL. Some decent credentials


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## stokie_93 (Oct 3, 2016)

I can't believe Herrera was still on the pitch at the end of that game yesterday. An absolute farce. It didn't even get a mention on match of the day but guarantee if it was someone like Charlie Adam there'd be uproar around it.


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## stokie_93 (Oct 3, 2016)

Haha! 
Jimmy Milner. Jack of all trades. Master of none.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 3, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Very true - so got away with it due to the poor ref who also seemed to do nothing about this as well 

http://www.90min.in/posts/3882740-v...e-allen-with-referee-1-metre-away?a_aid=35135

Is he the new Howard Webb ?
		
Click to expand...

Lee Mason gave one similar at Fulham on Saturday, I wonder if he'll remember to give them in a PL game throughout this season.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 4, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Lee Mason gave one similar at Fulham on Saturday, I wonder if he'll remember to give them in a PL game throughout this season.
		
Click to expand...

Waste of time though. Three penalties this season and missed them all


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 4, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Waste of time though. Three penalties this season and missed them all
		
Click to expand...

Just shows you, Jimmy Millie has scored four - master of spot kicks!!!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 4, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Just shows you, Jimmy Millie has scored four - master of spot kicks!!!

Click to expand...

Thanks to Sturridge being a gymnast :whoo:


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Thanks to Sturridge being a gymnast :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

No good being a gymnast when you're sat on the bench the whole game.....


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Thanks to Sturridge being a gymnast :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

YEP THAT WAS POOR THAT ONE, ALTHOUGH RIGHTFULLY DIDNT GET US A PEN.:thup:


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## sawtooth (Oct 4, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			YEP THAT WAS POOR THAT ONE, ALTHOUGH RIGHTFULLY DIDNT GET US A PEN.:thup:
		
Click to expand...

Yeah he is much better at disguising a dive than that usually. I agree not one of his better efforts. ;-)


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 6, 2016)

Is anyone watching the Wales game? Cracking opening goal from Wales and a lovely pass for the equaliser from the Austrian player. But just seen Ashley Williams go in for a challenge on the side of the Austria box and the Austria player went down clutching his ankle as if it had been nearly snapped off. The ref gave a free kick and then told the Austria player to get up. The replay showed that Williams had made absolutely no contact with the defender's ankle at all. Embarrassing from the Austrian but fair play to the ref for not falling for it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 6, 2016)

Good game isn't it? Don't want to jinx it, but I can see more goals in the 2nd half &#128515;


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 6, 2016)

Good game to watch as a neutral. Austria looked the better side for a lot of the first half but I guess that Wales have been "lucky".


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 6, 2016)

Cracking game and a tough place to go these days. Austria beginning to shape up well and I think Wales would take a draw


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## stokie_93 (Oct 7, 2016)

All of our lot scoring last night 

Joe Allen is god btw.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 7, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			Joe Allen is god btw.
		
Click to expand...

Never mind trying to slip it in under the radar in an international week.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 7, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			All of our lot scoring last night 

Joe Allen is god btw.
		
Click to expand...

Never thought he was a bad player, seemed to do a steady job at LPool,
any idea why they sold him?
Started great for yourselves.


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## stokie_93 (Oct 7, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Never thought he was a bad player, seemed to do a steady job at LPool,
any idea why they sold him?
Started great for yourselves.
		
Click to expand...

good player mate but not the class Liverpool are after I guess mate.
Done brilliant for us so far, literally never seen a player run so much :rofl:

If Liverpool ever want to give away a few more players i'd take Emre Can.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 7, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			good player mate but not the class Liverpool are after I guess mate.
Done brilliant for us so far, literally never seen a player run so much :rofl:

If Liverpool ever want to give away a few more players i'd take Emre Can.
		
Click to expand...

We actually had 2 Joe Allens at our club.

1st Joe Allen - short back and sides, Brendan's favourite, always put a shift in, generally knitted the play together well without being spectacular, but always did 2 to 3 suicidal passes a game for some reason.

2nd Joe Allen - grew his hair, sported a beard became a bit of an impact sub playing further forward, and changed a good few games for the good. I don't think he was going to become a regular further forward, with the likes of Coutinho, Mane, Firminho, Ojo and lallana also vieing for them spaces.

Some people though, never change their mind on a player, unless their paper tells them to.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 7, 2016)

Andorra are 4-0 down and down to 10 men have decided to kick the Portugal players at every opportunity.
It maybe the only way they can stop Portugal, but it's ridiculous!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 7, 2016)

5-0 and down to 9


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 8, 2016)

Is Rooney really playing as a holding midfielder against Malta? Two questions about this....Do we actually need a holding midfielder against Malta? And if we do is Rooney better in that position than Dier?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 8, 2016)

How long till ?
Same old, Same old,
It's only Malta,
(Insert Name here) is useless
No improvement from Roy.


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## JohnnyDee (Oct 8, 2016)

20 minutes in and England managing to hold the footballing collassus that men call Mata to a steady goalless 0-0.

Only 70 minutes more to hang on.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 8, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Is Rooney really playing as a holding midfielder against Malta? Two questions about this....Do we actually need a holding midfielder against Malta? And if we do is Rooney better in that position than Dier?
		
Click to expand...

You honestly thought against Malta Rooney would be a holding midfielder,yes like we would really need one.


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## Slime (Oct 8, 2016)

JohnnyDee said:



			20 minutes in and England managing to hold the footballing collassus that men call Mata to a steady goalless 0-0.

Only 70 minutes more to hang on.
		
Click to expand...


Viewing is not compulsory ....................... you do know that, don't you?


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## pokerjoke (Oct 8, 2016)

Very impressed with Deli Ali 

Southgate celebrating like its the world cup


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 8, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			You honestly thought against Malta Rooney would be a holding midfielder,yes like we would really need one.
		
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I was basing that on social media comments from several ex players before I swapped from CBeebies to the football. But nothing would surprise me with an England manager. I would have gone 4-4-2 with Rooney/Vardy and Sturridge up front and pace down both wings. But can't complain too much about the manager's selection or line up when we're 2-0 up even if it is "only Malta". All the manager and players can do is win the game and at the minute they're doing it.


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## Slime (Oct 8, 2016)

Can someone please tell Sturridge that he does have team mates and he is allowed to pass the bloody ball!


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## sawtooth (Oct 8, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Is Rooney really playing as a holding midfielder against Malta? Two questions about this....Do we actually need a holding midfielder against Malta? And if we do is Rooney better in that position than Dier?
		
Click to expand...

No and No.


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## JohnnyDee (Oct 8, 2016)

Slime said:



			Viewing is not compulsory ....................... you do know that, don't you?
		
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Was just having a little bit of mischievous and innocent fun &#128526;


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## Hickory_Hacker (Oct 8, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Very impressed with Deli Ali 

Southgate celebrating like its the world cup
		
Click to expand...

First time that I've heard of that English guy Bamidele Jermaine  alli, good goal.


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## Beezerk (Oct 8, 2016)

Slime said:



			Can someone please tell Sturridge that he does have team mates and he is allowed to pass the bloody ball!
		
Click to expand...

He's such a greedy player, you get few chances against good teams and he is just too wasteful the majority the time.


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## Slime (Oct 8, 2016)

JohnnyDee said:



			Was just having a little bit of mischievous and innocent fun &#62990;
		
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Me too :thup:.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 8, 2016)

Hickory_Hacker said:



			First time that I've heard of that English guy Bamidele Jermaine  alli, good goal.
		
Click to expand...

You musn't follow football then! 
Play''s for Spurs. Born and bred in England (Milton Keynes) to English mother and Nigerian father.
Played for England at every level from U17's
He's the current PFA Young Player of the Year.
Everyday's a school day.


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## JohnnyDee (Oct 8, 2016)

Slime said:



			Me too :thup:.
		
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&#128077;&#9917;&#65039;&#9917;&#65039;


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## Slime (Oct 8, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



*You musn't follow football then! *
Play''s for Spurs. Born and bred in England (Milton Keynes) to English mother and Nigerian father.
Played for England at every level from U17's
He's the current PFA Young Player of the Year.
Everyday's a school day.
		
Click to expand...

Why would he ......................... he's Scottish .


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## Slime (Oct 8, 2016)

JohnnyDee said:



			&#62541;&#9917;&#65039;&#9917;&#65039;
		
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?
I can't see those symbols as anything.


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## JohnnyDee (Oct 8, 2016)

Slime said:



			?
I can't see those symbols as anything.
		
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Thumbs up and two footballs but off IPhone symbols. Can't use the site's ones on my mobile app on phone


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## Slime (Oct 8, 2016)

JohnnyDee said:



			Thumbs up and two footballs but off IPhone symbols. Can't use the site's ones on my mobile app on phone 

Click to expand...


Got it, thanks :thup:


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## Hobbit (Oct 8, 2016)

Powder puff football with no real penetration. It looks like Ray Wilkins is on the coaching staff. 2yd sideways passing


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 8, 2016)

Slime said:



			Why would he ......................... he's Scottish .
		
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:clap: :clap:


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## Imurg (Oct 8, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Powder puff football with no real penetration. It looks like Ray Wilkins is on the coaching staff. 2yd sideways passing
		
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Is that the best we can do against Number 176 in the rankings....theres only 33 worse in the world..
A win's a win, but.........


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 8, 2016)

Onwards and upwards&#128515;


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 8, 2016)

We keep getting told about all this exciting attacking talent we have but it all looks so slow and pedestrian when we go forward. At times there was a midfielder looking for a pass forward and everyone ahead of the ball was standing still. It's terrible when you compare it to the attacking movement of teams like Germany and Spain.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 8, 2016)

Henderson talking about protecting the centre half's, we were playing Malta for christ sake!
Will someone on the panel lose their patience and be honest, it was shocking!


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## freddielong (Oct 8, 2016)

England are terrible the national side is an embarrassment.


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## Beezerk (Oct 8, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Henderson talking about protecting the centre half's, we were playing Malta for christ sake!
Will someone on the panel lose their patience and be honest, it was shocking!
		
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Panelists are a waste of time, just a bunch of yes men who just sit on the fence.
They need Chris Waddle on the TV more but he ain't pc enough.


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## sawtooth (Oct 8, 2016)

JohnnyDee said:



			Thumbs up and two footballs but off IPhone symbols. Can't use the site's ones on my mobile app on phone 

Click to expand...

You can but you need to switch to "full site" at the bottom of the page.


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## harpo_72 (Oct 8, 2016)

Technically the back passing was excellent, however the movement and vision was absent.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 8, 2016)

Don't worry England fans, it could be worse. You could be Scottish.


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## GG26 (Oct 8, 2016)

I didn't see tonight's match, but the selection of the squad seems to be based on who you play for and reputation, rather than actual current form.

Having watched Leicester a few times this season, it is quite clear that Vardy has yet to find his touch and confidence and is not currently playing well enough to warrant a place in the squad.  On the other hand Drinkwater has been playing excellently and doesn't even make the squad.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 8, 2016)

GG26 said:



			I didn't see tonight's match, but the selection of the squad seems to be based on who you play for and reputation, rather than actual current form.

Having watched Leicester a few times this season, it is quite clear that Vardy has yet to find his touch and confidence and is not currently playing well enough to warrant a place in the squad.  On the other hand Drinkwater has been playing excellently and doesn't even make the squad.
		
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Agree about Drinkwater, at a minimum he should be in the squad imo.


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## freddielong (Oct 9, 2016)

Should England do more to encourage players who are eligible to play for England to choose England, I am thinking of Iwobi but he isn't the only one, he was eligible to play for both Nigeria and England but Nigeria openly chased him and he chose them.
Should we be more like France and Germany?


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## Slime (Oct 9, 2016)

freddielong said:



*Should England do more to encourage players who are eligible to play for England to choose England*, I am thinking of Iwobi but he isn't the only one, he was eligible to play for both Nigeria and England but Nigeria openly chased him and he chose them.
Should we be more like France and Germany?
		
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Karamoko Dembele is the one I'd be looking at.
Okay, he's only 13, but he has recently played for Celtic U20's and is being watched by many clubs including PSG and Barcelona!
I think he's eligible to play for England, Scotland or Ivory Coast.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 9, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Should England do more to encourage players who are eligible to play for England to choose England, I am thinking of Iwobi but he isn't the only one, he was eligible to play for both Nigeria and England but Nigeria openly chased him and he chose them.
Should we be more like France and Germany?
		
Click to expand...


Iwobi!!!???

I think you are letting your Arsenal bias cloud your judgement. There may be some that could be considered but, in any event, we already have young players that could be developed.

As for other nations how many of the German team were not born in Germany?


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 9, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Iwobi!!!???

I think you are letting your Arsenal bias cloud your judgement. There may be some that could be considered but, in any event, we already have young players that could be developed.

As for other nations how many of the German team were not born in Germany?
		
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Think Padolski & Klose were born in Poland,not sure of their parents nationality.
I know neither play for the national team anymore,but both been big players for Germany.


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## Hickory_Hacker (Oct 9, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Don't worry England fans, it could be worse. You could be Scottish. 

Click to expand...

For sure ... Strachan is getting it a bit tight up here which doesn't bother me much. What does bother me though is his press conference attitude, there's no need for it.


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## freddielong (Oct 9, 2016)

Slime said:



			Karamoko Dembele is the one I'd be looking at.
Okay, he's only 13, but he has recently played for Celtic U20's and is being watched by many clubs including PSG and Barcelona!
I think he's eligible to play for England, Scotland or Ivory Coast.
		
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Exactly what I mean we should be maximising the talent that we have at our disposal


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 9, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Think Padolski & Klose were born in Poland,not sure of their parents nationality.
I know neither play for the national team anymore,but both been big players for Germany.
		
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So one more than England. (Raheem Stirling).

Personally I see no reason to change our current practice.


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## freddielong (Oct 9, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Iwobi!!!???

I think you are letting your Arsenal bias cloud your judgement. There may be some that could be considered but, in any event, we already have young players that could be developed.

As for other nations how many of the German team were not born in Germany?
		
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Maybe I am but he is still a 20 yr old playing for a top epl side who hasn't looked out of place for 1 second played champions league etc etc who was eligible to play for England and we let him play for Nigeria, and if I am not mistaken he has just scored twice in qualifying  for them.

I am sure Ozil as well as the other 2 mentioned was also eligible to play for turkey bur the Germans ensured he chose them.


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## freddielong (Oct 9, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			So one more than England. (Raheem Stirling).

Personally I see no reason to change our current practice.
		
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I think it's a few more than that

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/wo...lf-Joachim-Lows-squad-outside-Fatherland.html


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 9, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Maybe I am but he is still a 20 yr old playing for a top epl side who hasn't looked out of place for 1 second played champions league etc etc who was eligible to play for England and we let him play for Nigeria, and if I am not mistaken he has just scored twice in qualifying  for them.

I am sure Ozil as well as the other 2 mentioned was also eligible to play for turkey bur the Germans ensured he chose them.
		
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Why would he pick England over Nigeria ? 

Surely looking at recent history he would have picked Nigeria anyway.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 9, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			So one more than England. (Raheem Stirling).

Personally I see no reason to change our current practice.
		
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Nope I just named the 2 that sprung to mind.?
Google it if you're that bothered.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 9, 2016)

freddielong said:



			I think it's a few more than that

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/wo...lf-Joachim-Lows-squad-outside-Fatherland.html

Click to expand...

I am talking about country of birth. There have been plenty of examples in the past of players, whose parents were immigrants, playing for England and also players with English parents but themselves born overseas.

As for Iwobi, decent enough but has not yet done enough for us to worry that we might have missed out. He's no Marcus Rashford!


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## freddielong (Oct 9, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why would he pick England over Nigeria ? 

Surely looking at recent history he would have picked Nigeria anyway.
		
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He played for England at youth level so it wasn't a given.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 9, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Nope I just named the 2 that sprung to mind.?
Google it if you're that bothered.
		
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Like I said I'm happy with the way things are done now so I'm not bothered but both Podolski & Klose were born in Poland to Polish parents of German origin and moved to Germany as young children.

I would be more concerned by a Costa type of eligibility. I still cannot see how he can be allowed to play for Spain.


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## freddielong (Oct 9, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Like I said I'm happy with the way things are done now so I'm not bothered but both Podolski & Klose were born in Poland to Polish parents of German origin and moved to Germany as young children.

I would be more concerned by a Costa type of eligibility. I still cannot see how he can be allowed to play for Spain.
		
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We can afford to loose talented players its not as if we are still playing a clearly past it Wayne Rooney in the middle of the pitch.


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## sawtooth (Oct 9, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Should England do more to encourage players who are eligible to play for England to choose England, I am thinking of Iwobi but he isn't the only one, he was eligible to play for both Nigeria and England but Nigeria openly chased him and he chose them.
Should we be more like France and Germany?
		
Click to expand...

Iwobi didn't cost Â£50M so he must be rubbish. It's not not good enough for some that he is a regular in a very good EPL team and plays ( and scores) for his country too.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 9, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Iwobi didn't cost Â£50M so he must be rubbish. It's not not good enough for some that he is a regular in a very good EPL team and plays ( and scores) for his country too.
		
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I think there is a long way to go yet - not scored this season for club yet , only scored 2 last season and one goal for Nigeria. Compar his record to Rashford 

Rashford has 4 in 9 this season 

8 in 18 last season 

Streets apart right now


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## Papas1982 (Oct 9, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Maybe I am but he is still a 20 yr old playing for a top epl side who hasn't looked out of place for 1 second played champions league etc etc who was eligible to play for England and we let him play for Nigeria, and if I am not mistaken he has just scored twice in qualifying  for them.

I am sure Ozil as well as the other 2 mentioned was also eligible to play for turkey bur the Germans ensured he chose them.
		
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He has 18 apps for Arsenal,it's  too early for us to expect too much. 

He also played for England at junior levels. Maybe he made HIS choice to represent Nigeria?


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## freddielong (Oct 9, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think there is a long way to go yet - not scored this season for club yet , only scored 2 last season and one goal for Nigeria. Compar his record to Rashford 

Rashford has 4 in 9 this season 

8 in 18 last season 

Streets apart right now
		
Click to expand...

Rashford is a centre forward and my point wasn't really about Iwobi although I do think England will come to regret not perusing him he was just used as an example it was more about being more flexible with eligible players.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 9, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Rashford is a centre forward and my point wasn't really about Iwobi although I do think England will come to regret not perusing him he was just used as an example it was more about being more flexible with eligible players.
		
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But we are flexible.

 Iwobi may have chosen Nigeria but what could the FA do to prevent him making that decision. He was selected to represent England at U16,17 & 18. At the age of 19, before he had made his senior debut for Arsenal he chose to play for Nigeria. At that time England could not have offered him a guarantee of U21 selection, never mind the full side.

I agree we cannot afford to miss out on young talent but I cannot believe you would want the FA to offer assurances to someone in his situation, after all no such guarantee would be given to a player without dual eligibility.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 9, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			But we are flexible.

 Iwobi may have chosen Nigeria but what could the FA do to prevent him making that decision. He was selected to represent England at U16,17 & 18. At the age of 19, before he had made his senior debut for Arsenal he chose to play for Nigeria. At that time England could not have offered him a guarantee of U21 selection, never mind the full side.

I agree we cannot afford to miss out on young talent but I cannot believe you would want the FA to offer assurances to someone in his situation, after all no such guarantee would be given to a player without dual eligibility.
		
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Very good point. Having gone through the England junior sides, the FA should have recognised the potential (isn't that part of the St Georges remit?). It should have been possible to get his commitment going forward and both the player and the FA should have been realistic in terms of his U21 debut and progression going forward and that if he got into the Arsenal team and improve, recognition in the U21 would follow.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 9, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Rashford is a centre forward and my point wasn't really about Iwobi although I do think England will come to regret not perusing him he was just used as an example it was more about being more flexible with eligible players.
		
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I have a feeling the England will persue the players they believe will be worth it and players that look like they will have bright futures - when you look at the bright young talent around the league and even in the youth set ups Iwobi won't stick out like others do and have - and I expect that's why England didn't persue him. If someone who looks like they have a very bright future but has dual nationality then I'm sure that England will ensure they are part of the national set up. PS from when I have seen him Rashford is playing the same sort of wide supporting role that Iwobi is - and one of them sticks out way above the other


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 9, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Very good point. Having gone through the England junior sides, the FA should have recognised the potential (isn't that part of the St Georges remit?). It should have been possible to get his commitment going forward and both the player and the FA should have been realistic in terms of his U21 debut and progression going forward and that if he got into the Arsenal team and improve, recognition in the U21 would follow.
		
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But how do you secure that commitment?

Imagine you are Iwobi, what have the FA got to offer you to ensure you do not accept an offer to represent the country of your birth and that of your family.

As I said I cannot see that it can be a guarantee of future full caps or even U21, especially when you are still to make your full debut at club level.

Ultimately it has to be the player's choice.


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## freddielong (Oct 9, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I have a feeling the England will persue the players they believe will be worth it and players that look like they will have bright futures - when you look at the bright young talent around the league and even in the youth set ups Iwobi won't stick out like others do and have - and I expect that's why England didn't persue him. If someone who looks like they have a very bright future but has dual nationality then I'm sure that England will ensure they are part of the national set up. PS from when I have seen him Rashford is playing the same sort of wide supporting role that Iwobi is - and one of them sticks out way above the other
		
Click to expand...

But that's from the man who doesn't notice Ozil either


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 9, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			But how do you secure that commitment?

Imagine you are Iwobi, what have the FA got to offer you to ensure you do not accept an offer to represent the country of your birth and that of your family.

As I said I cannot see that it can be a guarantee of future full caps or even U21, especially when you are still to make your full debut at club level.

Ultimately it has to be the player's choice.
		
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I guess it would depend if Nigeria, in this case, could guarantee U21 football and progression the senior squad but as a relatively untried club player, how could they, in the same way as England, be certain he'd cut it at that level. As you say, it has to come down to the player but I do think the FA could be more reactionary


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 9, 2016)

freddielong said:



			But that's from the man who doesn't notice Ozil either
		
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I guess the England national team set up at U21 must think the same hence after he turned 18 he didn't go into the U21 set in 2014. 

But if you are right then I'm sure he will start to light up the Prem in the same way young players like Ali , Rashford , Sterling are doing

Ultimately you would be hard pressed to find many players that could have represented England but went on to star for another country


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 9, 2016)

freddielong said:



			But that's from the man who doesn't notice Ozil either
		
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Best if we forget individuals, Iwobi or Rashford, they are irrelevant to the problem with which the FA would be faced.

How do they secure the players' commitment?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 9, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I guess it would depend if Nigeria, in this case, could guarantee U21 football and progression the senior squad but as a relatively untried club player, how could they, in the same way as England, be certain he'd cut it at that level. As you say, it has to come down to the player but I do think the FA could be more reactionary
		
Click to expand...

See post#2968.

He made his debut for the Nigerian full side before he had even played for Arsenal's first team.

In those circumstances what could the FA do.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 9, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Best if we forget individuals, Iwobi or Rashford, they are irrelevant to the problem with which the FA would be faced.

How do they secure the players' commitment?
		
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Isn't unearthing the new vein of talent all part of the plan for St Georges and surely the FA need to be more proactive. It isn't a new problem though is it. Ryan Giggs anyone?


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 9, 2016)

Steve Bruce looks like he's been smashing the salads.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 9, 2016)

freddielong said:



			But that's from the man who doesn't notice Ozil either
		
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Do you really belive that iwobi has outperformed rashford since their breakthroughs last season?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 9, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Isn't unearthing the new vein of talent all part of the plan St Georges and surely the FA need to be more proactive. It isn't a new problem though is it. Ryan Giggs anyone?
		
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In what way was Ryan Giggs eligible for England?

Born in Wales, Welsh parents. Came to live, and go to school, in England when he was six. That did not mean he could play for the English national sides, other than England Schoolboys.

And Iwobi represented England at U16, U17 & U18.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 9, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			In what way was Ryan Giggs eligible for England?

Born in Wales, Welsh parents. Came to live, and go to school, in England when he was six. That did not mean he could play for the English national sides, other than England Schoolboys.

And Iwobi represented England at U16, U17 & U18.
		
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I don't know the answer, but surely if he played for the schoolboys, then by default he would have been eligible to progress to the U16-U18 and onwards to the U21.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 9, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I don't know the answer, but surely if he played for the schoolboys, then by default he would have been eligible to progress to the U16-U18 and onwards to the U21.
		
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Not until the rules were changed in 2009 could he have ever been eligible but only if he had not already represented another country in a competitive (i.e. not a friendly) match.

Irrelevant in a way, as he retired from international fooyball in 2007!


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 9, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Not until the rules were changed in 2009 could he have ever been eligible but only if he had not already represented another country in a competitive (i.e. not a friendly) match.

Irrelevant in a way, as he retired from international fooyball in 2007!
		
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He was the first name that came to mind but surely there must have been others


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 9, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			He was the first name that came to mind but surely there must have been others
		
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Why must there be others?

To suit an agenda of bashing the FA?

So far no one has come up with a coherent suggestion of what the FA can do to secure some sort of "commitment". They cannot offer guarantees of future selection nor can they select players for the national side before they are ready.

Obviously they can tell players that they are "in their thoughts for future selection" and in Iwobi's case, for example, this had been made clear by his selection for the various age group teams.

Beyond that it is hard to see what the FA can do; and I am definitely no great supporter of that body.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 9, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Why must there be others?

To suit an agenda of bashing the FA?

So far no one has come up with a coherent suggestion of what the FA can do to secure some sort of "commitment". They cannot offer guarantees of future selection nor can they select players for the national side before they are ready.

Obviously they can tell players that they are "in their thoughts for future selection" and in Iwobi's case, for example, this had been made clear by his selection for the various age group teams.

Beyond that it is hard to see what the FA can do; and I am definitely no great supporter of that body.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not saying there MUST be others, but assuming that was the case. I do agree with you, what can the FA do although I do think as part of their remit when they opened St Georges, they were prepared to develop the next generation through the junior sides, into the U21 and the full squad. So many variables of course and many players don't go on and fulfil their potential, and so the question of choosing their nationality, fails to arise. 

The one thing I hope we can agree on is that the FA have a difficult job, although they don't always seem to help themselves. What can they do? As a question (and again I don't know the answer hence asking) do other countries do things differently?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 9, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I'm not saying there MUST be others, but assuming that was the case. I do agree with you, what can the FA do although I do think as part of their remit when they opened St Georges, they were prepared to develop the next generation through the junior sides, into the U21 and the full squad.
		
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As far as I can see St. Georges is working well judging by the recent successes of the "junior" teams and, thus, it would appear that developing talent is being identified. 

With regard to other countries I see no evidence to suggest that any of them are any more successful than the FA in identifying and then retaining young talent.

Our senior side has well publicised difficulties but so far those do not seem to have arisen from missing out on exceptional talent.


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## USER1999 (Oct 10, 2016)

The best way forward for the FA would be to get the senior team winning trophies, and then the best players would want to play for England, and not Wales, Nigeria, or where ever.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 10, 2016)

That would be a great plan apart from a few minor details. Such as the fact that we aren't actually very good and our players certainly aren't as good as they think they are. I've heard comments from Henderson and Stones saying that Rooney was superb against Malta. I know they can't say he was awful but they must think that all England fans are stupid if they think we'll buy that. Rooney was one of several England players that put in average performances against a very poor team.


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## Slime (Oct 10, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			That would be a great plan apart from a few minor details. Such as the fact that we aren't actually very good and our players certainly aren't as good as they think they are. I've heard comments from Henderson and Stones saying that Rooney was superb against Malta. I know they can't say he was awful but *they must think that all England fans are stupid if* they think we'll buy that. Rooney was one of several England players that put in average performances against a very poor team.
		
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Don't forget that a lot of fans will boo him just because of who he is and who he plays for.


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## freddielong (Oct 10, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			That would be a great plan apart from a few minor details. Such as the fact that we aren't actually very good and our players certainly aren't as good as they think they are. I've heard comments from Henderson and Stones saying that Rooney was superb against Malta. I know they can't say he was awful but they must think that all England fans are stupid if they think we'll buy that. Rooney was one of several England players that put in average performances against a very poor team.
		
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Given Rooney is a naturally chunky guy with a game built around his speed and strengh his career was always going to end abruptly he has scored a lot of goals for England but I cannot see there being many more.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 10, 2016)

Slime said:



			Don't forget that a lot of fans will boo him just because of who he is and who he plays for.
		
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Agreed, it would be nice if we coukd put our club allegiances aside when it comes to the National side, unfortunately even genuine comments about players are dismissed or jumped on and judged by the person making the comment and who they support.
I will always support England, but to me the game against Malta was the worst I've seen for years and that includes McClaren, Taylor etc. The 2-0 win was as good as a loss to me (apart from the points) not one player could hold his head up and walk off that pitch thinking he'd worked a shift.


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## Slime (Oct 10, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Agreed, it would be nice if we coukd put our club allegiances aside when it comes to the National side, unfortunately even genuine comments about players are dismissed or jumped on and judged by the person making the comment and who they support.
I will always support England, but to me the game against Malta was the worst I've seen for years and that includes McClaren, Taylor etc. The 2-0 win was as good as a loss to me (apart from the points) not one player could hold his head up and walk off that pitch thinking he'd worked a shift.
		
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It wasn't too inspiring, I'll give you that ........................ but England did miss a couple of sitters and the Malta goalie made several world class saves.
It could easily have been 7 or 8-0 on another day.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 10, 2016)

Rooney isn't playing great,but he's not
alone.
He makes himself available for selection,it's then down to the manager to drop him if he's not performing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 10, 2016)

Slime said:



			Don't forget that a lot of fans will boo him just because of who he is and who he plays for.
		
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Which was Something that started around 2001 when England played at Old Trafford and certain players were booed because of the club they played for. 

I very much doubt it's as bad now playing at Wemberlee and being booed just for playing for the Mancs I don't think is common place - seems he is getting booed right now because he is playing poorly but that in itself shows the level of the modern fan when players get booed just for playing poorly


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## Kellfire (Oct 10, 2016)

If a player gives it his all and is poor, he shouldn't be booed. I don't think anyone would claim Rooney doesn't put in a shift every time he steps onto the pitch - he just isn't good enough anymore.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 10, 2016)

Slime said:



			It wasn't too inspiring, I'll give you that ........................ but England did miss a couple of sitters and the Malta goalie made several world class saves.
It could easily have been 7 or 8-0 on another day.
		
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We've been using them excuses and saying that for years, when is enough, enough, if an England team ever had a chance to boost themselves it was last saturday.


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## USER1999 (Oct 10, 2016)

People pay a lot of money to be entertained watching footy. If they want to boo, fine, they have paid their money, it's up to them. It's also up to the players to entertain. They didn't.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 10, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Which was Something that started around 2001 when England played at Old Trafford and certain players were booed because of the club they played for. 

I very much doubt it's as bad now playing at Wemberlee and being booed just for playing for the Mancs I don't think is common place - seems he is getting booed right now because he is playing poorly but that in itself shows the level of the modern fan when players get booed just for playing poorly
		
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No England player has ever took the stick and bad press as Rooney has been given, the whole team was poor against Malta and only he was booed.
Right now he is at the fans and media centre for all that is wrong with the team and is being made the scapegoat.
If England win comfortably tomorrow without him starting then that's what'll be focussed on.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 10, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			No England player has ever took the stick and bad press as Rooney has been given, the whole team was poor against Malta and only he was booed.
Right now he is at the fans and media centre for all that is wrong with the team and is being made the scapegoat.
If England win comfortably tomorrow without him starting then that's what'll be focussed on.
		
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Whole team poor ? 

I didn't watch the game but reading papers and BBC as well as the radio seems to suggest that Henderson had a very good game and it seems he will take over the captaincy ? So were the reports wrong ?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 10, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Whole team poor ? 

I didn't watch the game but reading papers and BBC as well as the radio seems to suggest that Henderson had a very good game and it seems he will take over the captaincy ? So were the reports wrong ?
		
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I did watch it and yes, it was Malta at Wembley Phil, we dominated possession so Henderson and Rooney saw a lot of the ball, never put under any pressure by their midfield, they put 9 in defence, but it was clueless, lots of side passing, backwards and forwards, final ball apart from a couple of times was found wanting.
Not singleing out any particular player as going on the opposition it was only what you'd expect.
You'll always get a MoM, Southgate thought Rooney was superb and now he's dropped him.
You know how much I've defended England on here and all the issues you and StuC have brought up time after time happened in this game.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 10, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			No England player has ever took the stick and bad press as Rooney has been given, the whole team was poor against Malta and only he was booed.
Right now he is at the fans and media centre for all that is wrong with the team and is being made the scapegoat.
If England win comfortably tomorrow without him starting then that's what'll be focussed on.
		
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It wasn't a great performance and there were a few that didn't perform well but Rooney was definitely a scapegoat as you rightfully say. How much of this decision by Southgate to put Rooney on the bench is to do with him flexing his managerial muscles in front of the FA and perhaps less to do with the tactical needs of the team away to a tricky opponent


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## Hacker Khan (Oct 10, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			It wasn't a great performance and there were a few that didn't perform well but Rooney was definitely a scapegoat as you rightfully say. *How much of this decision by Southgate to put Rooney on the bench is to do with him flexing his managerial muscles in front of the FA and perhaps less to do with the tactical needs of the team away to a tricky opponent*

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Or it could be that he is that rare breed of England manager, one that picks players that are in form and not by reputation (also known as the Darren Clark disease) and Rooney has contributed little in real terms when it matters for club and country for a long time now.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 10, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			Or it could be that he is that rare breed of England manager, one that picks players that are in form and not by reputation (also known as the Darren Clark disease) and Rooney has contributed little in real terms when it matters for club and country for a long time now.
		
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We can but hope that he is indeed picking on form and not reputation


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 10, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			Or it could be that he is that rare breed of England manager, one that picks players that are in form and not by reputation (also known as the Darren Clark disease) and Rooney has contributed little in real terms when it matters for club and country for a long time now.
		
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No issue with Rooney not being picked for any team based in form.
Have a read of Southgates comments about Rooney before and after the Malta game, how important he is, how he can influence games, how the media treat unfairly etc
He then makes him Captain, we win, he drops him! Is Southgate being his own man or listening to the media?


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## USER1999 (Oct 10, 2016)

When I was watching the match, it felt like I was watching subbuteo. There was so little movement in the final third of the pitch. It wasn't Rooneys fault, it was all of them.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 10, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			No issue with Rooney not being picked for any team based in form.
Have a read of Southgates comments about Rooney before and after the Malta game, how important he is, how he can influence games, how the media treat unfairly etc
He then makes him Captain, we win, he drops him! Is Southgate being his own man or listening to the media?
		
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It does seem that Southgate wants England to play at a faster tempo, something Rooney is no longer capable of.

This was obvious last season at club level and contributed towards the downfall of van Gaal, Southgate does not want to go the same way.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 10, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			It does seem that Southgate wants England to play at a faster tempo, something Rooney is no longer capable of.

This was obvious last season at club level and contributed towards the downfall of van Gaal, Southgate does not want to go the same way.
		
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Dier is unavailable so he plays Rooney instead, why play Rooney at all? he's not a midfield player and surely it's not another England manager who thinks it is?
I get it was Southgates first match and unexpected, but surely he wouldn't of got poorer opposition to try and get the players to play the way he wants and to pick those best suited. I didn't see any of this faster tempo against Malta or was that because Rooney played.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 10, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			No issue with Rooney not being picked for any team based in form.
Have a read of Southgates comments about Rooney before and after the Malta game, how important he is, how he can influence games, how the media treat unfairly etc
He then makes him Captain, we win, he drops him! Is Southgate being his own man or listening to the media?
		
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Or the Man U manager has had a quiet word with Gareth, and asked him not to play him?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 10, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Or the Man U manager has had a quiet word with Gareth, and asked him not to play him?
		
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Fair one, he'll want to be fresh for next monday


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 10, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Fair one, he'll want to be fresh for next monday 

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Precisely.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 10, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I didn't see any of this faster tempo against Malta or was that because Rooney played.
		
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Obviously not solely responsible but he does seem remarkably pedestrian these days which, in the role he fulfilled on Saturday,slows down the whole team.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 10, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Obviously not solely responsible but he does seem remarkably pedestrian these days which, in the role he fulfilled on Saturday,slows down the whole team.
		
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But that's the managers responsibility to pick the right player for the job and if me and you can see that that isn't Rooney, why was he picked?
He'll be on the bench tomorrow and if Henderson or Dier take a knock, it'll be Rooney replacing them!


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 10, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Fair one, he'll want to be fresh for next monday 

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Liverpool can only hope &#128513;


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## Kellfire (Oct 10, 2016)

Did anyone see Benteke's goal after seven seconds tonight? Hilarious defending. 

Pogba made Stekelenburg look stupid tonight, too.


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## richy (Oct 11, 2016)

I can't believe Henderson is going to captain the national side. 

England are poor because he is deemed one of our better players now. We've regressed so much in the last few years it's astonishing.


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## freddielong (Oct 11, 2016)

murphthemog said:



			When I was watching the match, it felt like I was watching subbuteo. There was so little movement in the final third of the pitch. It wasn't Rooneys fault, it was all of them.
		
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Its catch 22 though if the ball is getting stuck in midfield it makes it impossible to time your runs, I would agree that it wasn't all his fault but he is not good enough to play out of position.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 11, 2016)

richy said:



			I can't believe Henderson is going to captain the national side. 

England are poor because he is deemed one of our better players now. We've regressed so much in the last few years it's astonishing.
		
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I wouldn't say that Henderson is necessarily great captain material.

What I would say is who is a regular more senior player than him, currently?

Who says captains have to be the better players? Some of the worlds greatest players haven't been captains.


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## Beezerk (Oct 11, 2016)

richy said:



			I can't believe Henderson is going to captain the national side. 

England are poor because he is deemed one of our better players now. We've regressed so much in the last few years it's astonishing.
		
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Applause.

He's England's new Gareth Barry. Steady but when it comes to it, classless.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 11, 2016)

Beezerk said:



			Applause.

He's England's new Gareth Barry. Steady but when it comes to it, classless.
		
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I cant argue, as Henderson does do the safe thing far too many times, but again, easy saying it shoudnt be him as captain - offer who it should be, and why. :thup:


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## Kellfire (Oct 11, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I cant argue, as Henderson does do the safe thing far too many times, but again, easy saying it shoudnt be him as captain - offer who it should be, and why. :thup:
		
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Hart if he's to be the goalkeeper for the time being. Experience.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 11, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I cant argue, as Henderson does do the safe thing far too many times, but again, easy saying it shoudnt be him as captain - offer who it should be, and why. :thup:
		
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No issue with Henderson being Captain, I'd only give it to someone who Captains their club and can carry the role off.


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## freddielong (Oct 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			No issue with Henderson being Captain, I'd only give it to someone who Captains their club and can carry the role off.
		
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He is only pretend captain though the actual captain is sulking on the bench sending texts to colleen.


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## Slime (Oct 11, 2016)

freddielong said:



			He is only pretend captain though *the actual captain is sulking* on the bench sending texts to colleen.
		
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I take it that you didn't see his interview with Southgate.


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## richy (Oct 11, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I wouldn't say that Henderson is necessarily great captain material.

What I would say is who is a regular more senior player than him, currently?

Who says captains have to be the better players? Some of the worlds greatest players haven't been captains.
		
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I'd have Hart over Henderson. 

I didn't mean he was captain because he was our best player but his name has been mentioned in recent performances as one of our better players.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 11, 2016)

richy said:



			I'd have Hart over Henderson. 

I didn't mean he was captain because he was our best player but his name has been mentioned in recent performances as one of our better players.
		
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I think Hart is about the only other choice, but depends on if you want a goalie as a captain, or not. IS Hart guaranteed a place at the mo?

I think ink that goalies are generally mouthy organisers anyway, so get a respect from that anyway, especially when marshalling a defence. I would generally like a centre half or CM to be my captain, unless a forward or a FB was an outstanding candidate. 

ENgland captains have all the off field stuff to contend with as well.....so you have to help out old ladies etc.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 11, 2016)

Well for Liverpool Henderson has started very well and is captaining the side very well , reading reports and listening to ex players and pundits on 5Live suggest he was the best player on the pitch the other night and currently seems he is worth his place for both club and country - so can see why he would be a good choice for England captain. Henderson will always have his critics and that won't change no matter what he does but right now he is on form and playing well - and that's what England should be doing - picking players who are on form. 

Don't see many other choices to pick from right now


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## richy (Oct 11, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think Hart is about the only other choice, but depends on if you want a goalie as a captain, or not. IS Hart guaranteed a place at the mo?

I think ink that goalies are generally mouthy organisers anyway, so get a respect from that anyway, especially when marshalling a defence. I would generally like a centre half or CM to be my captain, unless a forward or a FB was an outstanding candidate. 

ENgland captains have all the off field stuff to contend with as well.....so you have to help out old ladies etc.  

Click to expand...

Hart or Henderson as our best candidates just shows how poor the pool to select from is.


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## richy (Oct 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well for Liverpool Henderson has started very well and is captaining the side very well , reading reports and listening to ex players and pundits on 5Live suggest he was the best player on the pitch the other night and currently seems he is worth his place for both club and country - so can see why he would be a good choice for England captain. Henderson will always have his critics and that won't change no matter what he does but right now he is on form and playing well - and that's what England should be doing - picking players who are on form. 

Don't see many other choices to pick from right now
		
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Being the best player on the pitch against a team of part timers when your own team is playing poorly doesn't really scream of quality. 

And before I anyone thinks I'm just slagging Henderson for the sake of it I was singing his praises as one of our best players during the last World Cup. My opinion is totally impartial


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 11, 2016)

richy said:



			Being the best player on the pitch against a team of part timers when your own team is playing poorly doesn't really scream of quality. 

And before I anyone thinks I'm just slagging Henderson for the sake of it I was singing his praises as one of our best players during the last World Cup. My opinion is totally impartial
		
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Henderson is the form English midfielder in the league right now - he is not world class or a top quality player but right now he is in form and playing very well - creating chances , protecting the ball , his runs from midfield are superb and he can cross a ball . He isn't the most skillful and you won't see him skinning players with fancy footwork but he is doing all the right things despite the constant flak he gets. He has earned his place in the team right now at this moment. Better more skillful players aren't playing better


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 11, 2016)

richy said:



			Being the best player on the pitch against a team of part timers when your own team is playing poorly doesn't really scream of quality. 

And before I anyone thinks I'm just slagging Henderson for the sake of it I was singing his praises as one of our best players during the last World Cup. My opinion is totally impartial
		
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Wasn't hard to look good in front of that lot, playing that badly. Not convinced he's as shining a midfield star as others see him and not sure he's a truly world class midfielder..yet. He's improving and to be honest we're not flooded with talent in his role. Klopp will improve him but at the moment but he's got a way to go in my mind. We'll see what captaincy does to the performance tonight and whether he can handle the responsibility of captaining his country, away from home in what may be a tricky encounter.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Henderson is the form English midfielder in the league right now - he is not world class or a top quality player but right now he is in form and playing very well - creating chances , protecting the ball , his runs from midfield are superb and he can cross a ball . He isn't the most skillful and you won't see him skinning players with fancy footwork but he is doing all the right things despite the constant flak he gets. He has earned his place in the team right now at this moment. Better more skillful players aren't playing better
		
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I would trust his form for LPool far more than his performance against Malta, he's started the season great and I'd also like to see Milner in the team as he has also started the season in great form, I'm just surprised you are now trusting the pundits and ex-players with opinions about England matches when in the past you've dismissed most of them were England is concerned.


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## richy (Oct 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I would trust his form for LPool far more than his performance against Malta, he's started the season great and I'd also like to see Milner in the team as he has also started the season in great form, I'm just surprised you are now trusting the pundits and ex-players with opinions about England matches when in the past you've dismissed most of them were England is concerned.
		
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He'll use their opinions when it fits his narrative. If he was slated he'd say it was because of club bias or some tosh.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I would trust his form for LPool far more than his performance against Malta, he's started the season great and I'd also like to see Milner in the team as he has also started the season in great form, I'm just surprised you are now trusting the pundits and ex-players with opinions about England matches when in the past you've dismissed most of them were England is concerned.
		
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Where would you play Milner? Him and Henderson in cm would be depressing IMO. 

And wouldbt want him at lb. hasn't he retired anyway?


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## Slime (Oct 11, 2016)

Jeeeeez.
He's not even starting and it's still all about Rooney.
Can't they give him a break and leave him alone .......................... just for a change?
It should be about England, the team and it's starting eleven, you'd think.


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## Junior (Oct 11, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Or the Man U manager has had a quiet word with Gareth, and asked him not to play him?
		
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Haha, never.  I think he wants an excuse not to play him.  Jose dropped him against Leicester and we looked the best we have all year.


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## richy (Oct 11, 2016)

Slime said:



			Jeeeeez.
He's not even starting and it's still all about Rooney.
Can't they give him a break and leave him alone .......................... just for a change?
It should be about England, the team and it's starting eleven, you'd think.
		
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When the captain gets dropped its pretty big news


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## pokerjoke (Oct 11, 2016)

Time for the new look England to stand up and be counted tonight,great chance once and for all to show we are moving in the right direction.

I believe it is a good time to drop Rooney as he has not played his best for a while now,however if we are going down the road of form players where is Drinkwater.

This could be the making of Henderson or he could fall flat on his face,i do hope he does well as we need a England playing good football.


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## Slime (Oct 11, 2016)

Dier for Rooney ................... that's working well .


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 11, 2016)

Going well so far. Should be one down. Very poor from Dier


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## PhilTheFragger (Oct 11, 2016)

Am I allowed to say "flipping heck what are they playing at"


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## freddielong (Oct 11, 2016)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Am I allowed to say "flipping heck what are they playing at"



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I am not sure ask a mod.

Nice pass by Dier d'oh


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 11, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Where would you play Milner? Him and Henderson in cm would be depressing IMO. 

And wouldbt want him at lb. hasn't he retired anyway?
		
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He has retired, but he's only 30, one of those players that give 100% and can be used in a number of positions, started the season very well and is certainly imo worthy of still being selected.


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## Fish (Oct 11, 2016)

I reckon Sturridge practices those dives, whilst in the air he deliberately places his foot against the defender into fooling the ref there's contact, which there is but it's cheating, and the annoying thing is he could probably go onto goal and beat that defender but his first choice is to dive&#128545;


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## NWJocko (Oct 11, 2016)

This is probably the poorest England side, in terms of quality of player, I've ever seen to be fair, a lot of very average players. Can't think of another time (maybe early 90's with Taylor?) they've looked so weak.

Still be enough to thump us right enough but expectations should be low looking at that side......


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## Kellfire (Oct 11, 2016)

Meanwhile in Germany...


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## Slime (Oct 11, 2016)

NWJocko said:



			This is probably the poorest England side, in terms of quality of player, I've ever seen
		
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Meanwhile, over in Slovakia :rofl:.


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## Beezerk (Oct 11, 2016)

Awful, Southgate has the job nailed on.
Sturridge his usual greedy, wasteful self, Walcott is just clueless where to make runs and look for the ball.
Someone point out a positive please cos I'm switching over to great train rides or summat &#128514;


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## NWJocko (Oct 11, 2016)

Slime said:



			Meanwhile, over in Slovakia :rofl:.
		
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What's your point? Or did you choose not to read my second paragraph?

We know we're rubbish, you'll need to learn looking at this!! :thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 11, 2016)

Very average at the moment, going for 1-0 England win, Rooney from the bench


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 11, 2016)

Not convinced by this England team at all. Lingard not good enough, Walcott ineffectual and no one controlling the ball and making telling passes. Sturridge up front looks incapable of standing up let alone scoring. Think Rooney will be on after an hour if not sooner. This is not a good performance or good team


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## pokerjoke (Oct 11, 2016)

If Henderson gets any deeper he will be in goal,how the hell can you effect a game from there.

If you play with 2 wide players who the hell is looking to pick the pass to play them in,the one time Walcot was in he fluffed his lines.


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## Slime (Oct 11, 2016)

Beezerk said:



			Awful, Southgate has the job nailed on.
Sturridge his usual greedy, wasteful self, Walcott is just clueless where to make runs and look for the ball.
Someone point out a positive please cos I'm switching over to great train rides or summat &#62978;
		
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Spot on regarding Sturridge and Walcott.
The only positives are that we're not losing and Rooney's not getting booed!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			He has retired, but he's only 30, one of those players that give 100% and can be used in a number of positions, started the season very well and is certainly imo worthy of still being selected.
		
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Definite Jack of All Trades but, at international level, Master of None.

His effort can never be questioned but to select him now would be a completely retrograde step.

Watching this only confirms for me that the best players in the PL are foreign. Aguero, de Bruyne, Coutinho, Payet, Ozil. Any two of those would make a massive difference. Too many of our players are make weights and water-carriers in their club sides.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 11, 2016)

I'm reading a book and flicking at the BBC online coverage. Less stressful than watching it from the look of the posts on here.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 11, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Definite Jack of All Trades but, at international level, Master of None.

His effort can never be questioned but to select him now would be a completely retrograde step.

Watching this only confirms for me that the best players in the PL are foreign. Aguero, de Bruyne, Coutinho, Payet, Ozil. Any two of those would make a massive difference. Too many of our players are make weights and water-carriers in their club sides.
		
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I'd be happy if this lot would put half of Milners effort in.


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## Fish (Oct 11, 2016)

Meanwhile at Holby &#128540;


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I'd be happy if this lot would put half of Milners effort in.
		
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It's not effort that is lacking, it's skill, technical ability, whatever you want to call it the English players don't have it.


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## garyinderry (Oct 11, 2016)

International footballer, Theo Walcott's clearance there now.   truly shocking.  :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 11, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			It's not effort that is lacking, it's skill, technical ability, whatever you want to call it the English players don't have it.
		
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They have skill and technical ability, I don't doubt it, it's a lack of desire and belief.


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## Slime (Oct 11, 2016)

A great five minute for Hart ....................... thankfully!


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## richy (Oct 11, 2016)

Beezerk said:



			Awful, Southgate has the job nailed on.
Sturridge his usual greedy, wasteful self, Walcott is just clueless where to make runs and look for the ball.
Someone point out a positive please cos I'm switching over to great train rides or summat &#128514;
		
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Hart has played well, kept us in it so far.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			They have skill and technical ability, I don't doubt it, it's a lack of desire and belief.
		
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Technical ability includes a good first touch, ability to turn, finding space when not in possession, passing under pressure. Which of this lot consistently displays any of those?

Our most gifted player is a centre-back for God's sake!


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## IainP (Oct 11, 2016)

Struggling to recall the last time England looked dangerous from a corner, anyone remember?


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## freddielong (Oct 11, 2016)

Wow the guy that has just come on for Slovenia sounds like some sort of heavy mining equipment.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 11, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Technical ability includes a good first touch, ability to turn, finding space when not in possession, passing under pressure. Which of this lot consistently displays any of those?

Our most gifted player is a centre-back for God's sake!
		
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Are you seriously saying no other player has the ability to do that, agreed it's sh1te tonight and on saturday but they are not that inept, that's why it's so frustrating!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 11, 2016)

IainP said:



			Struggling to recall the last time England looked dangerous from a corner, anyone remember?
		
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It doesn't help when the delivery is consistently poor.

Kane, Rooney and now Henderson; it makes no difference.


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## freddielong (Oct 11, 2016)

England are just too slow they move at a pedestrian pace, dross is coming on, that should help.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Are you seriously saying no other player has the ability to do that, agreed it's sh1te tonight and on saturday but they are not that inept, that's why it's so frustrating!
		
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All I will say is that when you play with better players you are more likely to look decent, I know that was true in my case. The better my team-mates the better I was.

That is why these players often look better for their clubs but when they are all together for England they are revealed as what they are, bog average.


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## Beezerk (Oct 11, 2016)

richy said:



			Hart has played well, kept us in it so far.
		
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I'm trying but the trains are calling... peeep peeep...last call for decent football.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 11, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			All I will say is that when you play with better players you are more likely to look decent, I know that was true in my case. The better my team-mates the better I was.

That is why these players often look better for their clubs but when they are all together for England they are revealed as what they are, bog average.
		
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Even bog average should be able to do the basics and we're failing at that tonight.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 11, 2016)

Get Wazzer on :whoo:


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 11, 2016)

Beezerk said:



			Someone point out a positive please cos I'm switching over to great train rides or summat &#62978;
		
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A great programme - great continental rail journeys.

A programme mixing great places, great trains and Michael Portillo modelling Lincoln quaker's summer collection - whats not to like?


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 11, 2016)

When Hart is your best player - BY A MILE, you know something is wrong with personnel and tactics. This is very very poor by England.


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## Hacker Khan (Oct 11, 2016)

Is anyone honestly surprised by this though?


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 11, 2016)

Team mates when Sturridge is on the ball 

https://media1.giphy.com/media/JPoPNaw6fA4IU/giphy.gif


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## Slime (Oct 11, 2016)

I'd like Wazza and Rashford for Sturridge and Horrenderson .................... who's had a total mare tonight!


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## Region3 (Oct 11, 2016)

This is the least skilful effort at sport I've seen today and I've watched the celebrities at the hero challenge!


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## USER1999 (Oct 11, 2016)

Region3 said:



			This is the least skilful effort at sport I've seen today and I've watched the celebrities at the hero challenge!
		
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They were poor, but I thought the event was fun.  More so than this rubbish anyway.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 11, 2016)

I've caved in and put it on. Cahill is looking like a pub player. What has happened to him? 

Townsend has injected some pace and drive. Good to see.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 11, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I've caved in and put it on. Cahill is looking like a pub player. What has happened to him? 

Townsend has injected some pace and drive. Good to see.
		
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Cahill as always been average at best.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 11, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			When Hart is your best player - BY A MILE, you know something is wrong with personnel and tactics. This is very very poor by England.
		
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There are no outstanding candidates not in the team. Southgate could perhaps have picked one or two different but it would be like shifting the deck-chairs on the Titanic.

We just do not have sufficient good players available to the manager.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 11, 2016)

IainP said:



			Struggling to recall the last time England looked dangerous from a corner, anyone remember?
		
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I'm struggling to recall the last time England managed to miss the first defender from a corner.


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## Beezerk (Oct 11, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Team mates when Sturridge is on the ball 

https://media1.giphy.com/media/JPoPNaw6fA4IU/giphy.gif

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Classic.
The phrase "even a blind squirrel will find a nut eventually" springs to mind with Sturridge.


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## Beezerk (Oct 11, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'm struggling to recall the last time England managed to miss the first defender from a corner.
		
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I'm struggling to recall the last time England looked dangerous. Maybe one of them got dressed as a clown recently.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 11, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Time for the new look England to stand up and be counted tonight,great chance once and for all to show we are moving in the right direction.

I believe it is a good time to drop Rooney as he has not played his best for a while now,however if we are going down the road of form players where is Drinkwater.

This could be the making of Henderson or he could fall flat on his face,i do hope he does well as we need a England playing good football.
		
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Somebody pick Henderson up it was the latter


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 11, 2016)

Beezerk said:



			I'm struggling to recall the last time England looked dangerous. Maybe one of them got dressed as a clown recently.
		
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The last time an English footballer looked dangerous was when Adam Johnson was in possession of a mobile phone and the local high school phone book.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 11, 2016)

Worst performance in a long long time. Sorry Gareth, you've took us backwards in just 2 games.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 11, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Somebody pick Henderson up it was the latter
		
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Be fair!

There was not one outfield player there tonight whose performance was "international class".


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## Hacker Khan (Oct 11, 2016)

Wonder what more proof there needs to be before fans realise this is the level we are at, this is the new normal. We are at the level of the Slovenias, Austrias, Switzerlands and Paraguays of this world.  Has there ever been such a disconnect in any country between the quality of a national league and the national team? Chuff knows how we got to be top seeded for a group when Italy and Spain are in the same group.


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## richy (Oct 11, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Somebody pick Henderson up it was the latter
		
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He wasn't the worst player. I'd give that accolade to either Walcott or Sturidge


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## Hacker Khan (Oct 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Worst performance in a long long time. Sorry Gareth, you've took us backwards in just 2 games.
		
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Hardly his fault, inherited a team with zero confidence and (very) limited ability who probably can't wait to get back to their club sides and play with some half decent players.


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## Kellfire (Oct 11, 2016)

Our 2-0 loss in Germany doesn't feel so bad now.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 11, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			Hardly his fault, inherited a team with zero confidence and (very) limited ability who probably can't wait to get back to their club sides and play with some half decent players.
		
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It was worse than the Euros and Sam's 1 game, they didn't look this useless, so why suddenly a down turn in form, why no confidence, what's happened to cause that?


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## richy (Oct 11, 2016)

Great post match interview by Joe Hart. Very honest, captain material right there!!


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 11, 2016)

To slow, to static.
Don't really see the worth of Walcott, Dier or Walker. 
Obviously we are World beaters looking at the wages they earn, but in reality they can't beat a team with a player from the German 2nd division.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 11, 2016)

Played with no confidence. Unsure first touches, no movement and no cutting edge. I don't know the cause but I think it was a wake up call for Southgate about just how hard this job will be if gets the post. He has a lot of work to do before the next game


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## pokerjoke (Oct 11, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Be fair!

There was not one outfield player there tonight whose performance was "international class".
		
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In my previous post I mentioned the captain that's all.

Your other point is spot on.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			It was worse than the Euros and Sam's 1 game, they didn't look this useless, so why suddenly a down turn in form, why no confidence, what's happened to cause that?
		
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Sorry but this is merely a continuation of what has been going on for years, including the Euro's where we were pathetic.

We haven't got the players, as successive managers have all found.

Like Hacker said there is a massive disconnect between the standard of the PL (where the best players are foreign) and the national team.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 11, 2016)

richy said:



			He wasn't the worst player. I'd give that accolade to either Walcott or Sturidge
		
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Walcott wasn't playing


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## Beezerk (Oct 11, 2016)

Why are England obsessed with players who have pace? There's no point if as a player, you have no idea how to best utilise it. When was the last time we ripped a team apart using pace, yet the media seem obsessed with it.


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## Beezerk (Oct 11, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			The last time an English footballer looked dangerous was when Adam Johnson was in possession of a mobile phone and the local high school phone book. 

Click to expand...

Belly laugh &#128514;


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 11, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Walcott wasn't playing
		
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Easy to have missed him!


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## Kellfire (Oct 11, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Walcott wasn't playing
		
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I assume you're joking?


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## Beezerk (Oct 11, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			I assume you're joking?
		
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Get back to yer craft beer.


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## richy (Oct 11, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Walcott wasn't playing
		
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What?


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 11, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			Chuff knows how we got to be top seeded for a group when Italy and Spain are in the same group.
		
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Just imagine if England and France had been drawn the other way around. I wouldn't have fancied our chances of getting out of a group with Sweden, Holland and Bulgaria. We might've picked up a few points against Belarus and Luxembourg but on the last two performances I'm not convinced by that.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 11, 2016)

richy said:



			Great post match interview by Joe Hart. Very honest, captain material right there!!
		
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:thup:


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## Kellfire (Oct 11, 2016)

Beezerk said:



			Get back to yer craft beer.
		
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Eh? Haha.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 11, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			Wonder what more proof there needs to be before fans realise this is the level we are at, this is the new normal. We are at the level of the Slovenias, Austrias, Switzerlands and Paraguays of this world.
		
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Maybe we should just accept we'll never be the cream of the crop.

Just like when someone is born and bred in Wem, Woking or weston-super-mare but engineers some affinity with Man U, Liverpool or Chelsea. Maybe we should just enjoy our parochial team now and again, but glory hunt a big team for the big stuff.

I've always wondered where my swarthy Italian looks came from.........


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## Beezerk (Oct 11, 2016)

Slipknot did a song about England but they called them People for some reason.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 11, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Sorry but this is merely a continuation of what has been going on for years, including the Euro's where we were pathetic.

We haven't got the players, as successive managers have all found.

Like Hacker said there is a massive disconnect between the standard of the PL (where the best players are foreign) and the national team.
		
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So how of teams with far worse players managed to look like a team or make the best of what they've got.
Anyone with an ounce of sense can see what our strengths and weakness's are, those players looked clueless and Southgate (who I'd hoped would have a fresh approach) has took us backwards, look at the shear amount of individual mistakes, these players are no were near as bad as they looked tonight. 
They need to be allowed to express themselves.
I'd rather we went back to playing "the English" way, ever since we've tried to play possession football like they do on the continent we've gone backwards. Effort guts and determination, rather than being something were not.
Defence, full backs pushing on, central defenders playing it out - we invite pressure.

Midfield, sideways and backwards looking for the defence splitting pass. - not good enough

Forwards - no height, no presence, no ariel threat, can't pass.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So how of teams with far worse players managed to look like a team or make the best of what they've got.
Anyone with an ounce of sense can see what our strengths and weakness's are, those players looked clueless and Southgate (who I'd hoped would have a fresh approach) has took us backwards, look at the shear amount of individual mistakes, these players are no were near as bad as they looked tonight. 
They need to be allowed to express themselves.
I'd rather we went back to playing "the English" way, ever since we've tried to play possession football like they do on the continent we've gone backwards. Effort guts and determination, rather than being something were not.
Defence, full backs pushing on, central defenders playing it out - we invite pressure.

Midfield, sideways and backwards looking for the defence splitting pass. - not good enough

Forwards - no height, no presence, no ariel threat, can't pass.
		
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Your last two points seem to contradict your earlier remark that the players are not as bad as they looked tonight.


Sorry but I disagree. As I said earlier when playing for their club sides they are alongside better players, thereby making them look better. Together for England the truth is revealed, they are that bad!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 11, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Your last two points seem to contradict your earlier remark that the players are not as bad as they looked tonight.


Sorry but I disagree. As I said earlier when playing for their club sides they are alongside better players, thereby making them look better. Together for England the truth is revealed, they are that bad!
		
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I don't think they're bad footballers, just being asked to play the wrong way or not listening to the manager or the manager is clueless.
Did you hear what Giggs was saying about Sturridge and what a brilliant footballer he is and then showed the dross he did tonight, why when they get on the pitch for England does they lose all that? 
They showed 3 or 4 decisions that Sturridge messed up, why? does he not trust his team mates or wants the glory or, as you say, he's not as good as he thinks, but with due respect to yourself, I think Giggs is in a better position to judge him


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## harpo_72 (Oct 11, 2016)

It was a dreadful game .. back passes were not even as good as the previous game! They just seem to attach themselves to their markers. How many times did yo see a throw in and no one moving about? 
That was shocking, beginning to think they should make a premier league side English only and make them play the premier league ... they would get hammered but eventually they would get better ..


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## Fish (Oct 12, 2016)

You can't cut new wood with the same old blunt saw, the manager whoever it could be can do no better with what we have to offer, they are simply not good enough and our expectations for them to suddenly perform on their own without the weekly support of naturally gifted foreign players who make them look better than they actual are ain't going to happen!

We need to accept we are no longer going to win anything of any substance on the world stage for a long time or even push ourselves into any threatening positions where we could trouble the French, Germans, Spanish, Italians and a lot more to boot until re address our whole footballing strategy and that starts at club level and that I'm afraid isn't going to change overnight as radical changes need to be made with regards to the amount of foreign players we have in a team/squad can be allowed, but then the investors and new blood club owners will possibly not be interested anymore and a whole new era would be born, but at what cost and potential damage?! 

Nationally were a mess!


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## Hacker Khan (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I don't think they're bad footballers, just being asked to play the wrong way or not listening to the manager or the manager is clueless.
Did you hear what Giggs was saying about Sturridge and what a brilliant footballer he is and then showed the dross he did tonight, why when they get on the pitch for England does they lose all that? 
They showed 3 or 4 decisions that Sturridge messed up, why? does he not trust his team mates or wants the glory or, as you say, he's not as good as he thinks, but with due respect to yourself, I think Giggs is in a better position to judge him
		
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Of course they are decent footballers, but I agree with MM in that they need foreign players in their club sides to bring out the best in them and add that special X factor. We do not have a special player or players who can do that. Rooney at his peak was the closest we have had, but he is well past his peak.


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## sawtooth (Oct 12, 2016)

Fish said:



			You can't cut new wood with the same old blunt saw, the manager whoever it could be can do no better with what we have to offer, they are simply not good enough and our expectations for them to suddenly perform on their own without the weekly support of naturally gifted foreign players who make them look better than they actual are ain't going to happen!

We need to accept we are no longer going to win anything of any substance on the world stage for a long time or even push ourselves into any threatening positions where we could trouble the French, Germans, Spanish, Italians and a lot more to boot until re address our whole footballing strategy and that starts at club level and that I'm afraid isn't going to change overnight as radical changes need to be made with regards to the amount of foreign players we have in a team/squad can be allowed, but then the investors and new blood club owners will possibly not be interested anymore and a whole new era would be born, but at what cost and potential damage?! 

Nationally were a mess!
		
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I agree , we don't have a larger enough pool of players and the standard is not where it should be.

The FA needs to make sure that a higher percentage of English players play in the EPL for starters. The league ought to be flooded with young promising English players , this would aid development and drive competition for places.

It's going to take years to change but without it I don't see us getting significantly better. 

Wenger  or A. Nother would need 10 years and total control from grass roots to the top to have any real impact.


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## USER1999 (Oct 12, 2016)

So the answer is to have more over paid, under performing English players in the premiership,  who will take the cash, and pretend to be Billy big boots. It won't improve them,  as they get too much money and fame too early, and stop trying to develop into the best they can be. David Bentley and Jermaine Pennant spring to mind as examples. All the talent,  zero application.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 12, 2016)

I think the overly large pay the English players get from being in the premiership,compared to other countries national leagues, leaves them thinking them are better than they actually are and them expecting other teams to just roll over.
Perhaps having the national team play premiership clubs instead of some meaningless friendlies might focus their attention and actually show them how much they need to work to win.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Worst performance in a long long time. Sorry Gareth, you've took us backwards in just 2 games.
		
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How can you judge after two games?


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## Hacker Khan (Oct 12, 2016)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I think the overly large pay the English players get from being in the premiership,compared to other countries national leagues, leaves them thinking them are better than they actually are and them expecting other teams to just roll over.
*Perhaps having the national team play premiership clubs* instead of some meaningless friendlies might focus their attention and actually show them how much they need to work to win.
		
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Nice idea but there is no way in a million years that premiership clubs will want their players doing this.  Plus the friendlies normally take place on international breaks so most premiership teams will have very few players left who are not on friendly duty for various countries.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			How can you judge after two games?
		
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Because you and Phil educated me, Roy had us playing a system that at least got us through the group stages and when he got good solid wins was given no credit because of the standard of the opposition, Sam, we'll never know.
Southgate is given 4 games, 3 qualifiers (2 against the easiest teams in the group) and a friendly, the performance on saturday and last night were worse than any game in the last 4-5 years.
All these excuses about thinking were better than we are or it's because of the amount of foreign players in the PL are a smokescreen, how many individual errors or incomplete passes did we see last night, that's down to the manager and how he's set them up.
How has Coleman or Ranieri or Klopp even got 80-90% of the players they inherited looking like different players,
Southgate said he'd had them for 10 days and they'd worked hard, come on mate, if that's the performance after 10 days of hard work they need a shoeing.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Because you and Phil educated me, 




			haha I don't believe that. I'm just curious how you can because you shouted me down when I said  there last performance under Big Sam was no better than what Hodgson served up.
		
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Roy had us playing a system that at least got us through the group stages and when he got good solid wins was given no credit because of the standard of the opposition, Sam, we'll never know.




			roy was given plenty of credit, let's be honest after Brazil he should've been out in his ear
		
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Southgate is given 4 games, 3 qualifiers (2 against the easiest teams in the group) and a friendly, the performance on saturday and last night were worse than any game in the last 4-5 years.
All these excuses about thinking were better than we are or it's because of the amount of foreign players in the PL are a smokescreen, how many individual errors or incomplete passes did we see last night, that's down to the manager and how he's set them up.
How has Coleman or Ranieri or Klopp even got 80-90% of the players they inherited looking like different players,
Southgate said he'd had them for 10 days and they'd worked hard, come on mate, if that's the performance after 10 days of hard work they need a shoeing.
		
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Southgate has had 10days with them, I don't know what you expect him to do, he's not a miracle worker.

I only seen the 2nd half and it was poor but the players again need to take responsibility. His substitutions were like for like and never really made an impact. 

Anyway I'm off the pool bar for a beer and a swim :cheers:


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 12, 2016)

It is not unreasonable to look for a pattern of play, a new style, a player who is different to the norm who may change what has happened before. I saw the last 20mins last night, read the comments on here and on the BBC sport site, and saw that nothing had changed, personnel style of play etc. Same old same old. 

If you have 4 matches as an audition you have to stand out. More of the same, when the same has not been very good, will not cut it. Better to go out fighting than with a whimper.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Southgate has had 10days with them, I don't know what you expect him to do, he's not a miracle worker.

I only seen the 2nd half and it was poor but the players again need to take responsibility. His substitutions were like for like and never really made an impact. 

Anyway I'm off the pool bar for a beer and a swim :cheers:
		
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So Roy was all to blame and now it's the players, the same players Roy was slated about.

Like for like substitutions that made no impact, who made them decisions? Not the players.

We beat Malta, let's change a winning team!

As said Southgate could've had this job sown up if he'd of gone for it.

Any of us could pick a team to batter Malta and win last night.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I don't think they're bad footballers, just being asked to play the wrong way or not listening to the manager or the manager is clueless.
Did you hear what Giggs was saying about Sturridge and what a brilliant footballer he is and then showed the dross he did tonight, why when they get on the pitch for England does they lose all that? 
They showed 3 or 4 decisions that Sturridge messed up, why? does he not trust his team mates or wants the glory or, as you say, he's not as good as he thinks, but with due respect to yourself, I think Giggs is in a better position to judge him
		
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Dangerous to place too much store in the comments of the pundits, I mean do you take Ian Wright seriously?

The ex-pros vary rarely tell it like it is, the broadcasters do not want them to as it would denigrate the product they are trying to sell to us. There are exceptions e.g. Chris Waddle & Chris Sutton  and there are good analysts like Carragher and Neville but in the main when commenting on players they will tend towards bland sycophancy.

With regard to Sturridge my opinion of him is the same whether in an England or Liverpool shirt. Decent but nowhere near as good as he thinks he is.


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## Slime (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So Roy was all to blame and now it's the players, the same players Roy was slated about.

Like for like substitutions that made no impact, who made them decisions? Not the players.

We beat Malta, let's change a winning team!

As said Southgate could've had this job sown up if he'd of gone for it.

*Any of us could pick a team to batter Malta and win last night.*

Click to expand...

Who would you have picked to BATTER Malta and win last night?


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 12, 2016)

Batter teams or not, the style of football we play as a national team is just plain terrible....bereft of ideas, direction or pace. 
Our current premiership champions played with pace. Liverpool play (normally) with pace, Utd in the pomp played with pace....even Arsenal (when not trying to pass the ball into the net ) play with pace. So if these teams can and do play with pace, as do most of the premiership teams now, why when the national team go out to play do they play so pedestrian and negatively?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So Roy was all to blame and now it's the players, the same players Roy was slated about.

Like for like substitutions that made no impact, who made them decisions? Not the players.

We beat Malta, let's change a winning team!

As said Southgate could've had this job sown up if he'd of gone for it.

Any of us could pick a team to batter Malta and win last night.
		
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Hodgson had years in the job and didn't learn - he wasn't slated after two games , he was slated after being shocking at the World Cup and failing to get out of the group , he then didn't learn from that and was just as shocking in the Euros - he was blamed for those poor performances.

All over social media Southgate is being slated after ten days and two games - just shows the problem with modern day football now


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hodgson had years in the job and didn't learn - he wasn't slated after two games , he was slated after being shocking at the World Cup and failing to get out of the group , he then didn't learn from that and was just as shocking in the Euros - he was blamed for those poor performances.

All over social media Southgate is being slated after ten days and two games - just shows the problem with modern day football now
		
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Hodgson was putting together a young squad having dumped the dead wood from the WC and the speed and movement contributed to an unbeaten qualification for the Euro's.

There was a failure from both the players and Hodgson in France and both had to shoulder the blame for not playing in the same manner they had done in the preceding 18 months on the whole.

Southgate inherited the same group of players who had been capable of making runs and playing with speed but in the two games in charge had introduced a familiar air of caution with players scared or unwilling to take a chance on the ball or play with freedom. For that alone the blame levelled at Southgate is in my opinion justified, and I don't buy his "I inherited a mess" quote. No you didn't. You've inherited the same players and made them scared to play

Hodgson made mistakes and arguably wasn't good enough in the finals of two competitions but he had at least sowed the seed of youth getting a chance and being given their head. Now we are back to the safety first days of Sven, Fabio and McClaren


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Slime said:



			Who would you have picked to BATTER Malta and win last night?
		
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Any of the 11 in the squad, it's a confidence and belief thing to me, Southgate said the squad was battered and bruised and a bit down after recent events! WHAT, ridiculous, he should've blown smoke up there ar5e and told them to go all out and have fun, Malta are part timers and yes i sincerely believe that sometimes there are some easy games at that level.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hodgson had years in the job and didn't learn - he wasn't slated after two games , he was slated after being shocking at the World Cup and failing to get out of the group , he then didn't learn from that and was just as shocking in the Euros - he was blamed for those poor performances.

All over social media Southgate is being slated after ten days and two games - just shows the problem with modern day football now
		
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You and Stu were slating him and claiming he should never of got the job, that's before one day. 

Did you watch last night?


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I agree , we don't have a larger enough pool of players and the standard is not where it should be.

The FA needs to make sure that a higher percentage of English players play in the EPL for starters. The league ought to be flooded with young promising English players , this would aid development and drive competition for places.

It's going to take years to change but without it I don't see us getting significantly better. 

Wenger  or A. Nother would need 10 years and total control from grass roots to the top to have any real impact.
		
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Again, there is always this premise that that is what everyone wants (I.E. a string English side, rather than a strong premiership). Not all footy fans want to engineer everything to suit England FC. If as a by-product England are also successful, great. However, lots of fans, like me are more worried about my club side than anything else, so don't presume that we all want everything to change in football to work towards this end. I know some wont like that, but that is the truth.

I'm sorry, but currently I'd rather watch Coutinho in a Liverpool shirt than some bog standard Englishman.

Even when England had loads of great players (the 70's and 80's) we were still a rubbish international side, so more Englishmen in the top league doesn't necessarily mean a more successful England team.:thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			You and Stu were slating him and claiming he should never of got the job, that's before one day. 

Did you watch last night?
		
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I don't believe Hodgson should have got the job but I don't believe I saw people giving him "blame" two games into his reign - Hodgson was giving blame and slated after the summer finals 
No I didn't watch last night


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2016)

stuart_c said:



			anyway i'm off the pool bar for a beer and a swim :cheers:
		
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tsssssuuuunnnnnaaaaammmmiiiiiiii!!!!!!!!!!:d


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## Hobbit (Oct 12, 2016)

Southgate led Middlesbrough to a magnificent relegation, managing them from '06, after McClaren left, to '09 and the relegation season.

Since then he's done...........................................................................................................................

There's better English managers in the Prem, irrespective of what he achieves in the next few games with England.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 12, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Southgate led Middlesbrough to a magnificent relegation, managing them from '06, after McClaren left, to '09 and the relegation season.

Since then he's done...........................................................................................................................

There's better English managers in the Prem, irrespective of what he achieves in the next few games with England.
		
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Won the Toulon U21 Comp ?


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## Beezerk (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Won the Toulon U21 Comp ?
		
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*wolf whistle*


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Again, there is always this premise that that is what everyone wants (I.E. a string English side, rather than a strong premiership). Not all footy fans want to engineer everything to suit England FC. If as a by-product England are also successful, great. However, lots of fans, like me are more worried about my club side than anything else, so don't presume that we all want everything to change in football to work towards this end. I know some wont like that, but that is the truth.

I'm sorry, but currently I'd rather watch Coutinho in a Liverpool shirt than some bog standard Englishman.

Even when England had loads of great players (the 70's and 80's) we were still a rubbish international side, so more Englishmen in the top league doesn't necessarily mean a more successful England team.:thup:
		
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So no national pride when they play, very sad in my opinion.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don't believe Hodgson should have got the job but I don't believe I saw people giving him "blame" two games into his reign - Hodgson was giving blame and slated after the summer finals 
No I didn't watch last night
		
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Roy wasn't as bad after 2 games, Roy was the manager, Southgate has 4 games, on those 2 performances, he aint getting the job, worst interview ever!


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Roy wasn't as bad after 2 games, Roy was the manager, Southgate has 4 games, on those 2 performances, he aint getting the job, worst interview ever!
		
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I do believe Southgate right now is unbeaten in two games in qualifying - the marker you used to judge Hodgson was how well they did in qualifying regardless of performance ? Why the change ?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I do believe Southgate right now is unbeaten in two games in qualifying - the marker you used to judge Hodgson was how well they did in qualifying regardless of performance ? Why the change ?
		
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Roy was 100%, is Southgate, you didn't see the game, have you read the reports?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Roy was 100%, is Southgate, you didn't see the game, have you read the reports?
		
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England wasn't 100% qualifying for the World Cup in 2014 which was Hodgson first full qualifying campaign - the team had three draws so did you bring out the same level of criticism towards Hodgson ( drew the second game against Ukraine at Wemberlee )

The results was very much the emphasis as a defence when people criticised the style of play employed by Hodgson ( even more so when he had up to 4 years to change ) despite the results 

So why the change from yourself ?

And LB has it spot on in regards country and club focus - why should a club focus towards the national side ? And national pride ?! In a bunch of multimillionaire footballs !!


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## Stuart_C (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So Roy was all to blame and now it's the players, the same players Roy was slated about.

Like for like substitutions that made no impact, who made them decisions? Not the players.

We beat Malta, let's change a winning team!

As said Southgate could've had this job sown up if he'd of gone for it.

Any of us could pick a team to batter Malta and win last night.
		
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No Roy wasn't solely to blame like I'd said on many many occasions  that players had to take responsibility. 

Let Roy go, he had plenty of time to deliver and he failed when it mattered even though expectations were so low.

Substitutions have an element of luck to them at times, but yes Southgate has to take responsibility for those not working.

I think you're being a bit ott re any one of us picking a side to beat Slovenia and batter Malta.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			You and Stu were slating him and claiming he should never of got the job, that's before one day. 

Did you watch last night?
		
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Whilst everybody else was waxing lyrical over the great man.

 Did he prove us wrong?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			England wasn't 100% qualifying for the World Cup in 2014 which was Hodgson first full qualifying campaign - the team had three draws so did you bring out the same level of criticism towards Hodgson ( drew the second game against Ukraine at Wemberlee )

The results was very much the emphasis as a defence when people criticised the style of play employed by Hodgson ( even more so when he had up to 4 years to change ) despite the results 

So why the change from yourself ?

And LB has it spot on in regards country and club focus - why should a club focus towards the national side ? And national pride ?! In a bunch of multimillionaire footballs !!
		
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What part of Roy was the manager and Southgate isn't don't you get?
Whoever they appoint on a permanent basis I will give a chance, you never gave Roy a chance from day 1, you've seen nothing of Southgates matches and you want to give him a chance, really don't think you're in a position to discuss Southgate when you didn't see the shocking dismal displays which in my opinion were far worse than any performance under Roy.
I've never once stated Clubs should focus on Country over Club, I'd rather watch a quality foreigner like Coutinho over a bog standard Englishman any day, I find it disgraceful that any person would not support their national side, I also don't agree that it's the foreigners fault that England are rubbish, surely our best, ie Henderson, Sturridge are beneffiting playing along side the brazilians.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			No Roy wasn't solely to blame like I'd said on many many occasions  that players had to take responsibility. 

Let Roy go, he had plenty of time to deliver and he failed when it mattered even though expectations were so low.

Substitutions have an element of luck to them at times, but yes Southgate has to take responsibility for those not working.

I think you're being a bit ott re any one of us picking a side to beat Slovenia and batter Malta.
		
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The only reason Roy was mentioned was because it was you who never gave him a chance and the Euros proved you were correct, that's hindsight though, even when he qualified with a 100% record you gave no credit citing the standard of opposition.
As for Malta comment, 179th in the World, of course anyone on here could've picked a better team.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			What part of Roy was the manager and Southgate isn't don't you get?
		
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Is Southgate not the manager right now then ? So Southgate doesn't get the same treatment because is caretaker then ? 




			Whoever they appoint on a permanent basis I will give a chance, you never gave Roy a chance from day 1, you've seen nothing of Southgates matches and you want to give him a chance, really don't think you're in a position to discuss Southgate when you didn't see the shocking dismal displays which in my opinion were far worse than any performance under Roy.
		
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I havent said anything about Southgate as a manager ? I just commented on how after two games you are slating the manager despite them not losing and wanted to know why you don't afford him the same luxury you gave the previous manager. I haven't said anything about the two previous performances because I didn't see them. Under Hodgson the results where the important thing - why the change now to focus on the performances ? When people mentioned some of the poor performances under Hodgson despite him being in charge for years you seem to allow that because of the result - you told everyone to get behind the England manager because it's the England manager - yet you don't seem to be doing the same with the current one ? 




			I've never once stated Clubs should focus on Country over Club, I'd rather watch a quality foreigner like Coutinho over a bog standard Englishman any day, I find it disgraceful that any person would not support their national side, I also don't agree that it's the foreigners fault that England are rubbish, surely our best, ie Henderson, Sturridge are beneffiting playing along side the brazilians.
		
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Why should someone support the national team ? Why is it "disgraceful" not to support them ? It's just a football team at the end of the day - I think it's more disgraceful that people judge people's national pride based on supporting a national team !!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is Southgate not the manager right now then ? So Southgate doesn't get the same treatment because is caretaker then ? 



I havent said anything about Southgate as a manager ? I just commented on how after two games you are slating the manager despite them not losing and wanted to know why you don't afford him the same luxury you gave the previous manager. I haven't said anything about the two previous performances because I didn't see them. Under Hodgson the results where the important thing - why the change now to focus on the performances ? When people mentioned some of the poor performances under Hodgson despite him being in charge for years you seem to allow that because of the result - you told everyone to get behind the England manager because it's the England manager - yet you don't seem to be doing the same with the current one ? 



Why should someone support the national team ? Why is it "disgraceful" not to support them ? It's just a football team at the end of the day - I think it's more disgraceful that people judge people's national pride based on supporting a national team !!
		
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Southgate is stop gap and someone who has gone on record saying he's not ready for the job, so if he's lied he has the best opportunity in the world.

I'm judging him on 2 games of shocking football, like I said, worse imo than any performance in the last 5-10 years not just under Roy.

Whether it's Football, Rugby Hockey or any sport that England are involved in I believe that any English person should get behind that Team or individual and want them to succeed, anything else is disgraceful and those publicly stating they'd want people wearing their National colours to fail are despicable in my book.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Southgate is stop gap and someone who has gone on record saying he's not ready for the job, so if he's lied he has the best opportunity in the world.

I'm judging him on 2 games of shocking football, like I said, worse imo than any performance in the last 5-10 years not just under Roy.

Whether it's Football, Rugby Hockey or any sport that England are involved in I believe that any English person should get behind that Team or individual and want them to succeed, anything else is disgraceful and those publicly stating they'd want people wearing their National colours to fail are despicable in my book.
		
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You're confusing me here - you believe any English person should get behind the team or individual and if they don't they are disgraceful ?! Yet your slating Southgate ?

It's just a sportsteam for goodness sake - no ones national pride should ever be determined by support of a sportsteam - and if someone does then they need to take a good hard look at themselves. It's beyond pathetic to make judgements about people's patriotism based on a football team. 

And the game last night must have been bad to beat the game against Iceland which England lost.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You're confusing me here - you believe any English person should get behind the team or individual and if they don't they are disgraceful ?! Yet your slating Southgate ?

It's just a sportsteam for goodness sake - no ones national pride should ever be determined by support of a sportsteam - and if someone does then they need to take a good hard look at themselves. It's beyond pathetic to make judgements about people's patriotism based on a football team. 

And the game last night must have been bad to beat the game against Iceland which England lost.
		
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You're the one comfusing National Pride and patrioism with supporting a national sportsman, not me, you follow sport, I follow sport and therefore I would like every English sportsman and woman to suceed when representing England, 
Last night those representing England on the football pitch that I watched and supported and hoped they'd do well, imo failed miserably, and the responsibility for that imo is Southgate.
So if someone has no interest in sport, by your explanation I am saying they are unpatriotic and a disgrace........err no, we are on a football thread, I thought you'd understand.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Whether it's Football, Rugby Hockey or any sport that England are involved in I believe that any English person should get behind that Team or individual and want them to succeed, anything else is disgraceful and those publicly stating they'd want people wearing their National colours to fail are despicable in my book.
		
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Doesn't happen very often but I have to agree with Liverpoolphil on this one.

I am very proud to be English but I certainly see no reason why, as a result of that pride, I should be obliged to offer unqualified support to a sports team.

For instance I have no interest in the sport of Hockey (Sorry Phil!) and very little in Rugby Union or League and whilst I wish those teams no ill equally I am unable to support them

Nationality does not equate to affinity with a team.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Doesn't happen very often but I have to agree with Liverpoolphil on this one.

I am very proud to be English but I certainly see no reason why, as a result of that pride, I should be obliged to offer unqualified support to a sports team.

For instance I have no interest in the sport of Hockey (Sorry Phil!) and very little in Rugby Union or League and whilst I wish those teams no ill equally I am unable to support them

Nationality does not equate to affinity with a team.
		
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So by wishing them no ill, I would take that you don't want to see them fail.

I don't understand people who follow Football and are English wanting England to fail, will never get my head around that.

it's just my opinion but I would hope that Nationality *WOULD* equate to affinity with a team. why would you want your own nation to lose?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So by wishing them no ill, I would take that you don't want to see them fail.

I don't understand people who follow Football and are English wanting England to fail, will never get my head around that.

it's just my opinion but I would hope that Nationality *WOULD* equate to affinity with a team. why would you want your own nation to lose?
		
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Not a case of wishing that they lose.

Including the football team (but with the exception of the cricketers) it is basically a case of indifference.

If a team representing England at any sport in which I am interested plays in a way that I find attractive, note they do not have to be winning, Then for what it is worth I will support them.

Otherwise I could not give a stuff and that includes the football team for which we do not have the players to play in that attractive manner.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Not a case of wishing that they lose.

Including the football team (but with the exception of the cricketers) it is basically a case of indifference.

If a team representing England at any sport in which I am interested plays in a way that I find attractive, note they do not have to be winning, Then for what it is worth I will support them.

Otherwise I could not give a stuff and that includes the football team for which we do not have the players to play in that attractive manner.
		
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Maybe I'm too simplistic then, regardless of who or when England are playing I support them and hope they win, afterwards regardless of result, everyone is entitled to an opinion. 
Looking forward to the Scotland game if we play in the same manner as the last 2 we could be in for a very dificult evening, obviously I will be fully supporting them and hope to god they prove me wrong and put a decent performance in.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Maybe I'm too simplistic then, regardless of who or when England are playing I support them and hope they win, afterwards regardless of result, everyone is entitled to an opinion. 
Looking forward to the Scotland game if we play in the same manner as the last 2 we could be in for a very dificult evening, obviously I will be fully supporting them and hope to god they prove me wrong and put a decent performance in.
		
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As I say I have to be interested and, therefore, I cannot support or express an opinion on England's performance in certain sports such as Rugby as I do not understand these sports sufficiently to appreciate, or otherwise, the performance. 

The Scotland game is one I may not bother with as it would seem that it will be a match up of two pretty poor sides playing equally poor football.


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## chrisd (Oct 12, 2016)

Id want England to win at "Underwater Bareback Scrabble" if they did such a thing. I ABSOLUTELY cannot agree with anyone who puts club before country!


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## JCW (Oct 12, 2016)

:cheers::cheers::cheers:utt::funk::clap::clap::clap:


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## Slime (Oct 12, 2016)

JCW said:



 .................. :clap:
		
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WTF is that all about?


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## Slime (Oct 12, 2016)

chrisd said:



			Id want England to win at "Underwater Bareback Scrabble" if they did such a thing. I ABSOLUTELY cannot agree with anyone who puts club before country!
		
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BOOM ...................... I'm right there with you Chris.
It absolutely baffles me.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 12, 2016)

Slime said:



			WTF is that all about?
		
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Glad it wasn't just me :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 12, 2016)

Slime said:



			BOOM ...................... I'm right there with you Chris.
It absolutely baffles me.
		
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Paul Scholes must have disappointed you then 

So why should a fan put country before club ? 

Millions of fans all over the country pay money every single week to watch their team , to fund the wages of the players , to help out their team in anyway - they grow a connection to the club and the club connect with the local community , they travel from top to bottom of the country supporting their club - so why should a fan put the national team before that ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Paul Scholes must have disappointed you then 

So why should a fan put country before club ? 

Millions of fans all over the country pay money every single week to watch their team , to fund the wages of the players , to help out their team in anyway - they grow a connection to the club and the club connect with the local community , they travel from top to bottom of the country supporting their club - so why should a fan put the national team before that ?
		
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National pride. Simple as that. I want my country to do well in every sport and I'll always support England regardless. I followed my team home and away for years watching them in the lower leagues with no chance of glory. Paid my money week in week out, usually to be disappointed but would still go to Wembley to see England play or watch it on the TV


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## Papas1982 (Oct 12, 2016)

Footballers always tell us (whether they mean it may be different) that intl caps are the pinnacle. So if its most important to them, imo it should be to fans. I respect anyone who chooses differently. But maybe supporting a smaller club made me feel like england were always more likely to provide trophies than Saints so i had that hope. Also, now that players do seem picked more on form than club name, i'd like to think support could go hand in hand, If a player is doing well for england, they should be doing well for their club. So it could be win win.

Any talk of not caring about footballers as they're over paid etc etc kinda smacks of hypocrisy to me when we were all routing for europe last week in a sport where the players are paid just as handsomely.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Paul Scholes must have disappointed you then 

So why should a fan put country before club ? 

Millions of fans all over the country pay money every single week to watch their team , to fund the wages of the players , to help out their team in anyway - they grow a connection to the club and the club connect with the local community , they travel from top to bottom of the country supporting their club - so why should a fan put the national team before that ?
		
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Why does there have to be an order? Why can't club and country go hand in hand?
Recognition of form is to be selected by your country, it's not a slight on the player and clubs are more than happy to play the international card when trying to sell them.
Totally understand a footballer retiring from international football to extend his club career, that again shouldn't be took as a slight but common sense.
Never ever ever heard of a an uncapped footballer saying no to his country.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 12, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Footballers always tell us (whether they mean it may be different) that intl caps are the pinnacle. So if its most important to them, imo it should be to fans. I respect anyone who chooses differently. But maybe supporting a smaller club made me feel like england were always more likely to provide trophies than Saints so i had that hope. Also, now that players do seem picked more on form than club name, i'd like to think support could go hand in hand, If a player is doing well for england, they should be doing well for their club. So it could be win win.

Any talk of not caring about footballers as they're over paid etc etc kinda smacks of hypocrisy to me when we were all routing for europe last week in a sport where the players are paid just as handsomely.
		
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That can't be it because as a Birmingham supporter I have certainly learned not to expect success.

Perhaps my disconnect is partially due to being able to see my club team whereas for anyone outside the M25 attending England games requires expensive travel and often an overnight stay.

As for all of us rooting for Europe I have to say that my support was perhaps less partisan. More interested in the golf than the result.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 12, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			That can't be it because as a Birmingham supporter I have certainly learned not to expect success.
		
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Try being a Fulham fan. At least you have some league cup wins in the history


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## Papas1982 (Oct 12, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			That can't be it because as a Birmingham supporter I have certainly learned not to expect success.

Perhaps my disconnect is partially due to being able to see my club team whereas for anyone outside the M25 attending England games requires expensive travel and often an overnight stay.

As for all of us rooting for Europe I have to say that my support was perhaps less partisan. More interested in the golf than the result.
		
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Supporting england in any event costs money tbf unless you live where they are participating. And plenty of fans of all clubs but especially to the big clubs who don't get to see their club but class themselves as fans. Not saying that they aren't. Just that getting to the venue certinalynisnt IMO a reason to not support. You can support club or ountry as compatibly as each other form your armchair.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 12, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Try being a Fulham fan. At least you have some league cup wins in the history
		
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I'll see your being a Fulham fan and raise you being a Colchester United fan. You've got a Europa league final. We've got nothing. Not even a faint glimmer of hope.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 12, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'll see your being a Fulham fan and raise you being a Colchester United fan. You've got a Europa league final. We've got nothing. Not even a faint glimmer of hope.
		
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Tough times! But you wouldn't have missed them would you


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'll see your being a Fulham fan and raise you being a Colchester United fan. You've got a Europa league final. We've got nothing. Not even a faint glimmer of hope.
		
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Beating Leeds in the FA Cup&#128515;


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So no national pride when they play, very sad in my opinion.
		
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There are lots of sociological and historical reasons why England arent my passion, and covered lots of times before.

I like to see them do well, but doesnt "hurt" when they dont. Im quite passionate about the Rugby and Cricket teams though.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 12, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Tough times! But you wouldn't have missed them would you
		
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pauldj42 said:



			Beating Leeds in the FA Cup&#62979;
		
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The Leeds win was before I was born. Think the highlight since I've been supporting them was the Vauxhall Conference and FA Trophy double in 1992. Other highlights include seeing Wimbledon on their rise up through the leagues and beating them at Layer Road with Dave Beasant coming up for a corner in the final minute and hitting the crossbar with a header that would have been the equaliser.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			The only reason Roy was mentioned was because it was you who never gave him a chance and the Euros proved you were correct, that's hindsight though, even when he qualified with a 100% record you gave no credit citing the standard of opposition.
As for Malta comment, 179th in the World, of course anyone on here could've picked a better team.
		
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The thing is Paul, Liverpool fans had seen first hand Roy's "work". It wasnt a case of not giving him a chance, more a case of predicting that he would be Rubbish for England at the top level. There is a difference.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Whether it's Football, Rugby Hockey or any sport that England are involved in I believe that any English person should get behind that Team or individual and want them to succeed, anything else is disgraceful and those publicly stating they'd want people wearing their National colours to fail are despicable in my book.
		
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What advice do you give to someone who is born and raised in England, but whose parents are both Irish? What guidelines can you give.....


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So by wishing them no ill, I would take that you don't want to see them fail.

I don't understand people who follow Football and are English wanting England to fail, will never get my head around that.

it's just my opinion but I would hope that Nationality *WOULD* equate to affinity with a team. why would you want your own nation to lose?
		
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There is also a difference between not feeling much of an affinity, and wanting them to lose. Again different things.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2016)

chrisd said:



			Id want England to win at "Underwater Bareback Scrabble" if they did such a thing. I ABSOLUTELY cannot agree with anyone who puts club before country!
		
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Are they not entitled to feel more in common with a local club, than a team 200 miles away, who hardly ever visits.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			National pride. Simple as that. I want my country to do well in every sport and I'll always support England regardless. I followed my team home and away for years watching them in the lower leagues with no chance of glory. Paid my money week in week out, usually to be disappointed but would still go to Wembley to see England play or watch it on the TV
		
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Yes, but England play 10 miles away......all the time.

What I cant believe is southerners who dictate to northerners, how they should feel.

Dont you even try to put yourself in the mind of some northern fans, and think why they would feel no affinity. Go on, give it a try.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Are they not entitled to feel more in common with a local club, than a team 200 miles away, who hardly ever visits.
		
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Fair point, how about the ones who live closer to Wembley than Anfield, old trafford etc?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			There are lots of sociological and historical reasons why England arent my passion, and covered lots of times before.

I like to see them do well, but doesnt "hurt" when they dont. Im quite passionate about the Rugby and Cricket teams though.
		
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Unfortunately there are thoughs who wish to see England fail #SNE


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			The Leeds win was before I was born. Think the highlight since I've been supporting them was the Vauxhall Conference and FA Trophy double in 1992. Other highlights include seeing Wimbledon on their rise up through the leagues and beating them at Layer Road with Dave Beasant coming up for a corner in the final minute and hitting the crossbar with a header that would have been the equaliser.
		
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Only reason I know about Leeds is that you played Everton at Goodison in the next round.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			The thing is Paul, Liverpool fans had seen first hand Roy's "work". It wasnt a case of not giving him a chance, more a case of predicting that he would be Rubbish for England at the top level. There is a difference.
		
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So you agree LPool fans didn't give him a chance simply based on the fact he failed at LPool.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			What advice do you give to someone who is born and raised in England, but whose parents are both Irish? What guidelines can you give.....
		
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Whatever team or teams you follow, never ever hope they lose just to prove your point.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			There is also a difference between not feeling much of an affinity, and wanting them to lose. Again different things.
		
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Yes, but there are those that rather stay ambivolent and say nothing actually enjoy them losing, sorry, will never understand that.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Are they not entitled to feel more in common with a local club, than a team 200 miles away, who hardly ever visits.
		
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Is this not the same for Twickenham or is that somehow diferent to Wembley?


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Fair point, how about the ones who live closer to Wembley than Anfield, old trafford etc?
		
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They may have a different mentality, as football fans arent one size fits all. Examples:-

Lots of Liverpool born reds still want to beat the blues more than Man U. 95% of overseas reds would want it the other way round, as more likely to be in contact on a daily basis with Man U fans.

Southern based Liverpool/United fans may make a priority to attending at Anfield/OT, when tickets become available, even though a trip to the NW may cost them a lot more. When they feel like, they may go and watch England, have an affinity with both, and be equally as passionate about both. 

I know tonnes of Liverpool season ticket holders past and present, and not many have followed England or are bothered about them, although, like myself, have seen England on a few occasions.

For clarity, I had a few bob in the summer of 1996, and had access to tickets for England at Wembley and travelled down to 3 of the games, enjoyed it, sang the national anthem and went mental when we scored. I have also seen them at Anfield 2-3 times and also supported them. 

Affinity wise - its Liverpool 1st, second and last.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Unfortunately there are thoughs who wish to see England fail #SNE
		
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What is SNE?


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So you agree LPool fans didn't give him a chance simply based on the fact he failed at LPool.
		
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No, but a lot of it was in reaction to loads of experts saying that Liverpool fans hadnt given him a chance at Anfield, so a lot of reaction by reds was naturally to say........ok, lets see how England fans react to his "football philosophy" - they were worst than Liverpool fans.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Whatever team or teams you follow, never ever hope they lose just to prove your point.
		
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That doesnt answer the question raised in any way, shape or form.


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## Beezerk (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			What advice do you give to someone who is born and raised in England, but whose parents are both Irish? What guidelines can you give.....
		
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No brainer, drink loads of Guinness while wearing your England shirt.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Is this not the same for Twickenham or is that somehow diferent to Wembley?
		
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Yep, equally as bad.

I can slightly live with the fact that the south is in more of a union hotbed, whereas the north is mainly a league stronghold. I dont know if union can be played at most northern football grounds or not, due to the size of the pitch. Football is the national sport.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			They may have a different mentality, as football fans arent one size fits all. Examples:-

Lots of Liverpool born reds still want to beat the blues more than Man U. 95% of overseas reds would want it the other way round, as more likely to be in contact on a daily basis than Man U fans.

Southern based Liverpool/United fans may make a priority to attending at Anfield/OT, when tickets become available, even though a trip to the NW may cost them a lot more. When they feel like, they may go and watch England, have an affinity with both, end be equally as passionate about both. 

I know tonnes of Liverpool season ticket holders past and present, and not many have followed England or are bothered about them, although, like myself, have seen England on a few occasions.

For clarity, I had a few bob in the summer of 1996, and had access to tickets for England at Wembley and travelled down to 3 of the games, enjoyed it, sang the national anthem and went mental when we scored. I have also seen them at Anfield 2-3 times and also supported them. 

Affinity wise - its Liverpool 1st, second and last.
		
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I know you are answering Papas, but I don't get this Club, 1st, 2nd and last, you've put you've seen England play but still no affinity, you don't have to choose 1 or the other.
A lot of reds had no problem supporting Spain or Uruguay rather than England when Torres and Suarez played for yous, I don't get it.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2016)

Beezerk said:



			No brainer, drink loads of Guinness while wearing your England shirt.
		
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Maybe a steak and guiness pie, is the middle ground.

I'm still waiting for Paul's guidelines.......


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			That doesnt answer the question raised in any way, shape or form.
		
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Yes it does, the mam and dad might have no interest in Football or love it and let the lad choose for himself, every situation would be different, there isn't one answer to the question.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I know you are answering Papas, but I don't get this Club, 1st, 2nd and last, you've put you've seen England play but still no affinity, you don't have to choose 1 or the other.
A lot of reds had no problem supporting Spain or Uruguay rather than England when Torres and Suarez played for yous, I don't get it.
		
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I have a massive passion for LFC, I have an "interest" in England. Thats it, just cos you cant get your head around it, doesnt make it right or wrong.

I supported Scotland as a young teenager, cos we had lots of Scottish players. I still like seeing all the British (and ROI) teams do well, and can cheer when they score.

I'm sure that some England fans would say that I should sing anti-IRA songs, to show my "passion" for England. One of the big turn-offs for me is England's support - do you find England's support as something to be proud of? I find them embarassing.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Yes it does, the mam and dad might have no interest in Football or love it and let the lad choose for himself, every situation would be different, there isn't one answer to the question.
		
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At least thats a better answer than your previous one, but still a cop out.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I have a massive passion for LFC, I have an "interest" in England. Thats it, just cos you cant get your head around it, doesnt make it right or wrong.

I supported Scotland as a young teenager, cos we had lots of Scottish players. I still like seeing all the British (and ROI) teams do well, and can cheer when they score.

I'm sure that some England fans would say that I should sing anti-IRA songs, to show my "passion" for England. One of the big turn-offs for me is England's support - do you find England's support as something to be proud of? I find them embarassing.
		
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Whether it's Club or Country you get the d1ckheads, you can't judge all fans on a minority.
Same question could be asked to me you and Man Utd fans when the minority sing about Munich or Heysel.
And yes I am proud of 99% of England fans and disgusted with the 1%.

I've never said it was right or wrong, but don't understand it as nobody has ever explained it in a way that would make me understand it.

I've also never seen you post any comments about wanting England to fail.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			At least thats a better answer than your previous one, but still a cop out.
		
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How's it a cop out? Give me an exact scenario and I'll give you an exact answer.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Whether it's Club or Country you get the d1ckheads, you can't judge all fans on a minority.
Same question could be asked to me you and Man Utd fans when the minority sing about Munich or Heysel.
And yes I am proud of 99% of England fans and disgusted with the 1%.

I've never said it was right or wrong, but don't understand it as nobody has ever explained it in a way that would make me understand it.

I've also never seen you post any comments about wanting England to fail.
		
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Come on Paul, its not 1% of England fans. Its a massive minority.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			How's it a cop out? Give me an exact scenario and I'll give you an exact answer.
		
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I gave you one, does it matter if 1,2 or none of the parents are football fans.

He is either a disgrace, or not..


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I gave you one, does it matter if 1,2 or none of the parents are football fans.

He is either a disgrace, or not..
		
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If he's been brought up with Irish traditions, culture, follow Dundalk then he may feel more Irish than English and follow Ireland, no issue.
Or all his mates are mad England fans and he supports England.
He may also have 2 passports.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Come on Paul, its not 1% of England fans. Its a massive minority.
		
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:rofl: how many is a massive minority,
Interview with coppers who were at the Euros in France said at times there were over 60,000 English fans over there and about 200 hundred English troublemakers, a lot less than 1%.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			If he's been brought up with Irish traditions, culture, follow Dundalk then he may feel more Irish than English and follow Ireland, no issue.
Or all his mates are mad England fans and he supports England.
He may also have 2 passports.
		
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Actually he hates football, and loves rugby.:rofl::ears:

Shall I throw him back in......


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			:rofl: how many is a massive minority,
Interview with coppers who were at the Euros in France said at times there were over 60,000 English fans over there and about 200 hundred English troublemakers, a lot less than 1%.
		
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Behave, only 200 troublemakers.

What about 20 odd years ago, the troublecausers would have been in their thousands.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, but England play 10 miles away......all the time.

What I cant believe is southerners who dictate to northerners, how they should feel.

Dont you even try to put yourself in the mind of some northern fans, and think why they would feel no affinity. Go on, give it a try.
		
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Oi, don't you start on southerners, I'm with you on this one you northern gitâ€¦â€¦â€¦


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Oi, don't you start on southerners, I'm with you on this one you northern gitâ€¦â€¦â€¦ 

Click to expand...

Oi you, I wasnt talking to open-minded southerners.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Oi you, I wasnt talking to open-minded southerners.

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:rofl: :cheers:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Behave, only 200 troublemakers.

What about 20 odd years ago, the troublecausers would have been in their thousands.
		
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20 years ago they were in there thousands at some clubs.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			20 years ago they were in there thousands at some clubs.
		
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Too right, that has changed a lot at club level in England due to police intelligence, banning orders, CCTV and other reasons.

Its taken a long time for foreign forces to catch up, and I still think there are a few thousand following England for trouble still. Anyway I'm not just on about hooligans, even non-hooligan England fans are embarassing.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 13, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Too right, that has changed a lot at club level in England due to police intelligence, banning orders, CCTV and other reasons.

Its taken a long time for foreign forces to catch up, and I still think there are a few thousand following England for trouble still. Anyway I'm not just on about hooligans, even non-hooligan England fans are embarassing.
		
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 Every club has them


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## Kellfire (Oct 13, 2016)

I've been to see Northern Ireland once. We lost 1-0 at home to Armenia.

Shut up and be thankful you're English*.


*no one should ever be thankful they're English


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 13, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I know you are answering Papas, but I don't get this Club, 1st, 2nd and last, you've put you've seen England play but still no affinity, you don't have to choose 1 or the other.
A lot of reds had no problem supporting Spain or Uruguay rather than England when Torres and Suarez played for yous, I don't get it.
		
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Why are you so desperate for people to support the England football team 

I have see you mention a number of times about people wanting them to lose - but I don't recall anyone suggesting that on here ?

Just because someone supports their club and not the country doesn't automatically mean they want England football team to lose 

I don't have a rugby team to follow - I just enjoy watching all the games and go to various matches around in this area but I support the England Rugby Team and have seen them loads of times , same with hockey. In cricket I support both Somerset and England. In football I'm a Liverpool fan - that's it , I enjoy watching international summer tournaments but beyond that don't watch qualifies on the whole - I'm totally indifferent towards the national team , I don't support them nor do I wish them to lose. There is nothing wrong with that and no judgements should be made towards people's national pride etc etc as we have seen. And when Suarez or Torres played for their country I didn't support that country I supported the player wanting him to do well 

If you want to support England over Everton then away you go - no one will judge you on that so the respect should be held both ways


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 13, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why are you so desperate for people to support the England football team 

I have see you mention a number of times about people wanting them to lose - but I don't recall anyone suggesting that on here ?

Just because someone supports their club and not the country doesn't automatically mean they want England football team to lose 

I don't have a rugby team to follow - I just enjoy watching all the games and go to various matches around in this area but I support the England Rugby Team and have seen them loads of times , same with hockey. In cricket I support both Somerset and England. In football I'm a Liverpool fan - that's it , I enjoy watching international summer tournaments but beyond that don't watch qualifies on the whole - I'm totally indifferent towards the national team , I don't support them nor do I wish them to lose. There is nothing wrong with that and no judgements should be made towards people's national pride etc etc as we have seen. And when Suarez or Torres played for their country I didn't support that country I supported the player wanting him to do well 

If you want to support England over Everton then away you go - no one will judge you on that so the respect should be held both ways
		
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I think you're missing the point some have made. For many, it's not a case of supporting club over country and the fact that they actually go hand in hand. I support my club as passionately as I've ever done but I still want England to do well in every game they play.

Like you I don't support a rugby team but will want England to do well. I'm a Surrey cricket supporter and again want them to win every competition and then feel exactly the same way when England play. It's not a case of wanting one over the other or even wanting my club players to play/not play for their country to boost their own and the clubs own interests.

For someone with a self proclaimed apathy to the England football team, their performances and issues seem to cause you an awful lot of concerns on here!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 13, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why are you so desperate for people to support the England football team 

I have see you mention a number of times about people wanting them to lose - but I don't recall anyone suggesting that on here ?

Just because someone supports their club and not the country doesn't automatically mean they want England football team to lose 

I don't have a rugby team to follow - I just enjoy watching all the games and go to various matches around in this area but I support the England Rugby Team and have seen them loads of times , same with hockey. In cricket I support both Somerset and England. In football I'm a Liverpool fan - that's it , I enjoy watching international summer tournaments but beyond that don't watch qualifies on the whole - I'm totally indifferent towards the national team , I don't support them nor do I wish them to lose. There is nothing wrong with that and no judgements should be made towards people's national pride etc etc as we have seen. And when Suarez or Torres played for their country I didn't support that country I supported the player wanting him to do well 

If you want to support England over Everton then away you go - no one will judge you on that so the respect should be held both ways
		
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Who said it's one or the other? Please read what is posted, stated a few times, they can hand in hand it's not a competition, for someone who doesn't want them to lose you certainly wanted them to fail.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 13, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Who said it's one or the other? Please read what is posted, stated a few times, they can hand in hand it's not a competition, for someone who doesn't want them to lose you certainly wanted them to fail.
		
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Sorry but not once said I wanted England to fail - so would suggest you stop making that assumption. 

Yet you have certainly made enough judgements towards people who don't support the England football team - believe the words disgraceful has been used by you , others have talked about national pride , others have made remarks about people who put their club first - how about respect people's right to support who they wish without the need to judge. 

You say I don't have to chose one or the other but then that's not up to you to decide - if someone decides not to support the England football team and instead just supports their club - there is nothing wrong with that and people should respect that's persons wishes.


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## PhilTheFragger (Oct 13, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why are you so desperate for people to support the England football team 

I have see you mention a number of times about people wanting them to lose - but I don't recall anyone suggesting that on here ?

Just because someone supports their club and not the country doesn't automatically mean they want England football team to lose 

I don't have a rugby team to follow - I just enjoy watching all the games and go to various matches around in this area but I support the England Rugby Team and have seen them loads of times , same with hockey. In cricket I support both Somerset and England. In football I'm a Liverpool fan - that's it , I enjoy watching international summer tournaments but beyond that don't watch qualifies on the whole - I'm totally indifferent towards the national team , I don't support them nor do I wish them to lose. There is nothing wrong with that and no judgements should be made towards people's national pride etc etc as we have seen. And when Suarez or Torres played for their country I didn't support that country I supported the player wanting him to do well 

If you want to support England over Everton then away you go - no one will judge you on that so the respect should be held both ways
		
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HomerJSimpson said:



			I think you're missing the point some have made. For many, it's not a case of supporting club over country and the fact that they actually go hand in hand. I support my club as passionately as I've ever done but I still want England to do well in every game they play.

Like you I don't support a rugby team but will want England to do well. I'm a Surrey cricket supporter and again want them to win every competition and then feel exactly the same way when England play. It's not a case of wanting one over the other or even wanting my club players to play/not play for their country to boost their own and the clubs own interests.

For someone with a self proclaimed apathy to the England football team, their performances and issues seem to cause you an awful lot of concerns on here!
		
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pauldj42 said:



			Who said it's one or the other? Please read what is posted, stated a few times, they can hand in hand it's not a competition, for someone who doesn't want them to lose you certainly wanted them to fail.
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but not once said I wanted England to fail - so would suggest you stop making that assumption. 

Yet you have certainly made enough judgements towards people who don't support the England football team - believe the words disgraceful has been used by you , others have talked about national pride , others have made remarks about people who put their club first - how about respect people's right to support who they wish without the need to judge. 

You say I don't have to chose one or the other but then that's not up to you to decide - if someone decides not to support the England football team and instead just supports their club - there is nothing wrong with that and people should respect that's persons wishes.
		
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Guys, Change the record, we have had this argument so many times before.

there is no law that says that if you are English then you HAVE to support the England Footy Team, 
However it is also fair to say that those who do NOT support the national team, yet regularly pass comment on them are just making a rod for their own backs.

Just sayin


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 13, 2016)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Guys, Change the record, we have had this argument so many times before.

there is no law that says that if you are English then you HAVE to support the England Footy Team, 
However it is also fair to say that those who do NOT support the national team, yet regularly pass comment on them are just making a rod for their own backs.

Just sayin
		
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Is that not the same as 

Chelsea fans who comment on Liverpool
Man Utd fans who comment on Liverpool
Liverpool fans who comment on Arsenal 
Fulham fans who comment on Liverpool , Arsenal , Man Utd , Chelsea , Spurs , Leicester , 
Everton fans who comment on just about everyone. 

Just because someone doesn't support a team doesn't mean they can't comment on a team - or can people only post about the team they support ? I only commented when Paul decided to bring me and Stu into it and then going on about national pride and being a disgrace etc etc etc


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 13, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is that not the same as 

Chelsea fans who comment on Liverpool
Man Utd fans who comment on Liverpool
Liverpool fans who comment on Arsenal 
Fulham fans who comment on Liverpool , Arsenal , Man Utd , Chelsea , Spurs , Leicester , 
Everton fans who comment on just about everyone. 

Just because someone doesn't support a team doesn't mean they can't comment on a team - or can people only post about the team they support ? I only commented when Paul decided to bring me and Stu into it and then going on about national pride and being a disgrace etc etc etc
		
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I'll respect fraggers wishes and make this my last post on the subject with you, for the whole of Roy's reign you never gave him a chance regardless of results, you claim your disinterested in England but yet comment on games when LPool players get MoM and conveniently don't comment when the same player has a shocker.
For someone to have such a knowledge of a vast range of sports it's only the England football team you are not bothered about, so why take the time to post about them or like you did over Roy, constantly draw the negatives out when they were winning.
I never asked you to comment over my thoughts in regards to Southgate, you joined in.
The first time I mentioned you was in answer to Stu and was complementing you both.


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## Hobbit (Oct 13, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is that not the same as 

Chelsea fans who comment on Liverpool
Man Utd fans who comment on Liverpool
Liverpool fans who comment on Arsenal 
Fulham fans who comment on Liverpool , Arsenal , Man Utd , Chelsea , Spurs , Leicester , 
Everton fans who comment on just about everyone. 

Just because someone doesn't support a team doesn't mean they can't comment on a team - or can people only post about the team they support ? I only commented when Paul decided to bring me and Stu into it and then going on about national pride and being a disgrace etc etc etc
		
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But by your own admission you don't watch the qualifiers yet feel you have all the info you need to make judgement ad nauseum.

If you don't want to support the national team, fine crack on. I wouldn't dream of watching England play hockey unless there's nothing better on the TV, but I'll cheer them on.

I agree with others that say there's no reason why a fan can't support both. And let's face it, when England are playing, Liverpool aren't. But the choice is yours. But if you want to be taken seriously in the discussion you need to debate from a position of strength. Posting "I didn't watch the game," and then expecting to be taken seriously. Lots of LOL on that one.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 13, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			But by your own admission you don't watch the qualifiers yet feel you have all the info you need to make judgement ad nauseum.

If you don't want to support the national team, fine crack on. I wouldn't dream of watching England play hockey unless there's nothing better on the TV, but I'll cheer them on.

I agree with others that say there's no reason why a fan can't support both. And let's face it, when England are playing, Liverpool aren't. But the choice is yours. But if you want to be taken seriously in the discussion you need to debate from a position of strength. Posting "I didn't watch the game," and then expecting to be taken seriously. Lots of LOL on that one.
		
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But I haven't made any judgements on any of the recent England games nor made any judgement on Southgate or any of the players who played in either match ? 

I didn't comment or make judgements on either match whilst they were going on or after about anything that went on because I didn't watch them to make a judgement.

What I made a comment on is when people start calling others a disgrace because they don't support the national team.


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## Hobbit (Oct 13, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But I haven't made any judgements on any of the recent England games nor made any judgement on Southgate or any of the players who played in either match ? 

I didn't comment or make judgements on either match whilst they were going on or after about anything that went on because I didn't watch them to make a judgement.

What I made a comment on is when people start calling others a disgrace because they don't support the national team.
		
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Have a look back to the posts, post World Cup, and to those through the Euro Qualifiers and into the finals. And now we're getting the same in these WC qualifiers. Are we to be subjected to constant posts about these qualifiers by someone who, by his own admission, doesn't even watch the games? Hilarious!


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## Imurg (Oct 13, 2016)

What I don't get is those who support England Rugby, Cricket, Hockey, Tiddlywinks etc but don't support the football team...why?
And don't come back with " Its my choice" that's like saying "You're wrong, because you are".
If you can support the National team in one sport, why not another one.....?


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 13, 2016)

Imurg said:



			What I don't get is those who support England Rugby, Cricket, Hockey, Tiddlywinks etc but don't support the football team...why?
And don't come back with " Its my choice" that's like saying "You're wrong, because you are".
If you can support the National team in one sport, why not another one.....?
		
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Not sure if this was based on things I said earlier, but for clarity, if it is.

England Cricket and rugby are not massively overpaid, overhyped, over-privileged sportsmen, generally. They are not supported by boorish Anti-German/French/Irish/Scottish who want to fight the world, embarrass us when abroad. They also haven't stuck two fingers up to the rest of the nation after having a few years on the road. I also don't feel as much as an affinity with the football team, as the other sports, and I say that as a football fan. I feel more in common with the European ryder cup team, than them.

If I had an all-expenses tournament pass to the Euros, I would definitely consider following Ireland or Scotland than England, due to the atmosphere surrounding England in town, compared to Ireland or Scotland in town.

I do hope they all win, though. :thup:


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## Imurg (Oct 13, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Not sure if this was based on things I said earlier, but for clarity, if it is.

England Cricket and rugby are not massively overpaid, overhyped, over-privileged sportsmen, generally. They are not supported by boorish Anti-German/French/Irish/Scottish who want to fight the world, embarrass us when abroad. They also haven't stuck two fingers up to the rest of the nation after having a few years on the road. I also don't feel as much as an affinity with the football team, as the other sports, and I say that as a football fan. I feel more in common with the European ryder cup team, than them.

If I had an all-expenses tournament pass to the Euros, I would definitely consider following Ireland or Scotland than England, due to the atmosphere surrounding England in town, compared to Ireland or Scotland in town.

I do hope they all win, though. :thup:
		
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A well reasoned response Sir - Bravo!


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 13, 2016)

Imurg said:



			A well reasoned response Sir - Bravo!
		
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Do I have to leave this thread now?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 13, 2016)

Imurg said:



			What I don't get is those who support England Rugby, Cricket, Hockey, Tiddlywinks etc but don't support the football team...why?
And don't come back with " Its my choice" that's like saying "You're wrong, because you are".
If you can support the National team in one sport, why not another one.....?
		
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With Rugby for example my dad was a big England Rugby fan - he took me a load of matches throughout the 80's and we went to the WC in 91 - I have affiliation to any club and don't support any club - just England 

For football I grew up a Liverpool fan - went regularly to watch the team , can only remember England when they played in the summer tournaments , didn't go to any England games just didn't have any connection to supporting them. Through the 90's as the media got worse and worse and the hype got even bigger. Then I was a steward at Wemberlee for Euro 96 and it was great - no media hype , no major trouble , no hatred being displayed towards any player because they played for a club 

And then the England football team hype blew in with the Beckham media circus hitting town - first there was 98 , fan trouble , then the hype and then burning of Beckham effergeis , and then the media circus just got even worse , haircuts back page or even front page news , then a spice girl , then the players jumping on the hype , then we had the Gerrard/Lampard issue and the amount of tripe posted towards players because of who they played and it just snowballed from there 

In 2000 when they went on the road whilst people outside of London got to see the national team you also had England players booed and jeered and subjected to insults based on who they played for - at Old Trafford - Liverpool players booed and vice versa for the grounds and clubs . Then you only have to look at social media and you can only guess at what fans say about England players who aren't from their own club . To me it's just not something that i could ever suppprt , just don't see any connection to the team 

You don't see it happening with the cricket team or rugby team or indeed any other sport


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## pokerjoke (Oct 13, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			With Rugby for example my dad was a big England Rugby fan - he took me a load of matches throughout the 80's and we went to the WC in 91 - I have affiliation to any club and don't support any club - just England 

For football I grew up a Liverpool fan - went regularly to watch the team , can only remember England when they played in the summer tournaments , didn't go to any England games just didn't have any connection to supporting them. Through the 90's as the media got worse and worse and the hype got even bigger. Then I was a steward at Wemberlee for Euro 96 and it was great - no media hype , no major trouble , no hatred being displayed towards any player because they played for a club 

And then the England football team hype blew in with the Beckham media circus hitting town - first there was 98 , fan trouble , then the hype and then burning of Beckham effergeis , and then the media circus just got even worse , haircuts back page or even front page news , then a spice girl , then the players jumping on the hype , then we had the Gerrard/Lampard issue and the amount of tripe posted towards players because of who they played and it just snowballed from there 

In 2000 when they went on the road whilst people outside of London got to see the national team you also had England players booed and jeered and subjected to insults based on who they played for - at Old Trafford - Liverpool players booed and vice versa for the grounds and clubs . Then you only have to look at social media and you can only guess at what fans say about England players who aren't from their own club . To me it's just not something that i could ever suppprt , just don't see any connection to the team 

You don't see it happening with the cricket team or rugby team or indeed any other sport
		
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Only you Phil can write such nonsense.

You seem to have a awful lot to say on something that doesn't interest you as others have posted,even things you have not watched because you get that info from papers and radio 5 live,Henderson being a prime example.

You mention Beckham and the spice girl but if you happened to read his book you may understand a little more about their relationship, that actually is still going strong and children they can be proud of.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 13, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Not sure if this was based on things I said earlier, but for clarity, if it is.

England Cricket and rugby are not massively overpaid, overhyped, over-privileged sportsmen, generally. They are not supported by boorish Anti-German/French/Irish/Scottish who want to fight the world, embarrass us when abroad. They also haven't stuck two fingers up to the rest of the nation after having a few years on the road. I also don't feel as much as an affinity with the football team, as the other sports, and I say that as a football fan. I feel more in common with the European ryder cup team, than them.

If I had an all-expenses tournament pass to the Euros, I would definitely consider following Ireland or Scotland than England, due to the atmosphere surrounding England in town, compared to Ireland or Scotland in town.

I do hope they all win, though. :thup:
		
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The hooligans have won then!
Like you I'm more than happy to see the home nations win, but not against England, then again I like to see our club sides win in Europe, regardless of club loyalties. England first for me everytime.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 13, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			The hooligans have won then!
Like you I'm more than happy to see the home nations win, but not against England, then again I like to see our club sides win in Europe, regardless of club loyalties. England first for me everytime.
		
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Mate I see what your saying but I have to disagree,there is no way I want Liverpool to win anywhere regardless of who they play.
I actually watch Liverpool quite a lot when they are on purely because if they lose I can take the p more.


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## Fish (Oct 13, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I like to see our club sides win in Europe, regardless of club loyalties.
		
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No no no noooooo, ain't gonna happen, the only team I would hope to do well would be a rogue team that's not a rival that probably won't get into Europe again, otherwise, good night vienna!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 13, 2016)

I totally get people not understanding me wanting English teams to do well in Europe, but love seeing English Clubs being the best, in the PL only interested in Everton winning (doesn't happen often).


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## JCW (Oct 13, 2016)

Slime said:



			WTF is that all about?
		
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I just smile and read these days , no comment to make , leave it to the experts for which I am not ................EYG :thup::clap:


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 13, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			The hooligans have won then!
Like you I'm more than happy to see the home nations win, but not against England, then again *I like to see our club sides win in Europe, regardless of club loyalties.* England first for me everytime.
		
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Paul, I've had the good fortune in recent years to visit Wembley a few times for semis & finals.  Regardless of who we are playing, I normally end up having to act as a human shield to protect my wife from the bottles, cans and any other crap that the English opposition fans feel it's acceptable to throw at us on the way up to the stadium.

We've also had the good fortune to visit Germany for one particular final against German opposition.  I wore a club shirt.  There, the entire town turned out for the day, mostly in red.  At no point did my wife and I have anything throw at us, get spat on or otherwise get threatened or assaulted.  If we stopped and got the map out we were immediately surrounded by red shirted Bayern fans anxious to help.  One guy even came out of his shop leaving it unattended.  We shared beers and jokes with them, and they even joined in with good grace when the cretinous element amongst the Chelsea fans started the Dambusters antics.  When a few fans invaded the pitch afterwards the German police threw them back into the terraces rather than nicking them.  After the game, and having robbed them in their own back yard, we were congratulated by the opposition fans & wished a safe journey in perfect English.  At no point did either of us feel in any danger whatsoever.

If Bayern Munich are playing any English club other than Chelsea it shouldn't be too difficult to work out who I'm going to be pulling for or why.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 13, 2016)

BiM, how about if Man Utd were playing Bayern Munich in the CL final with Chelsea having finished 4th in the league. The PL would lose their 4th CL place if Man Utd didn't win the final due to the coefficient. Would you rather Chelsea missed out on CL football the following year and have Bayern win the final or have Man Utd win so Chelsea qualified the following year?

The above is the reason that I don't understand any fan of one of the bigger clubs not supporting English clubs in Europe. If they do well then we maintain our 4 CL places, if they do badly then we could lose one of our places and it could be your team that misses out.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 13, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			BiM, how about if Man Utd were playing Bayern Munich in the CL final with Chelsea having finished 4th in the league. The PL would lose their 4th CL place if Man Utd didn't win the final due to the coefficient. Would you rather Chelsea missed out on CL football the following year and have Bayern win the final or have Man Utd win so Chelsea qualified the following year?

The above is the reason that I don't understand any fan of one of the bigger clubs not supporting English clubs in Europe. If they do well then we maintain our 4 CL places, if they do badly then we could lose one of our places and it could be your team that misses out.
		
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Man Utd fans are amongst those who have chucked the bottles so it changes nothing as far as I'm concerned.  

If we want to be in the Champions League we should be doing better than 4th and not relying on favours from other clubs.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 13, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Paul, I've had the good fortune in recent years to visit Wembley a few times for semis & finals.  Regardless of who we are playing, I normally end up having to act as a human shield to protect my wife from the bottles, cans and any other crap that the English opposition fans feel it's acceptable to throw at us on the way up to the stadium.

We've also had the good fortune to visit Germany for one particular final against German opposition.  I wore a club shirt.  There, the entire town turned out for the day, mostly in red.  At no point did my wife and I have anything throw at us, get spat on or otherwise get threatened or assaulted.  If we stopped and got the map out we were immediately surrounded by red shirted Bayern fans anxious to help.  One guy even came out of his shop leaving it unattended.  We shared beers and jokes with them, and they even joined in with good grace when the cretinous element amongst the Chelsea fans started the Dambusters antics.  When a few fans invaded the pitch afterwards the German police threw them back into the terraces rather than nicking them.  After the game, and having robbed them in their own back yard, we were congratulated by the opposition fans & wished a safe journey in perfect English.  At no point did either of us feel in any danger whatsoever.

If Bayern Munich are playing any English club other than Chelsea it shouldn't be too difficult to work out who I'm going to be pulling for or why.
		
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We've all seen good and bad at football grounds over the years, lived in Germany for over 10 years which coincided with Everton playing Bayern in the CWC Semi-final and yes the Bayern fans were superb, I was also there for Euro 88 and watched the Germans and Dutch beat the hell out of each other and witnessed the Germans attacking the English fans in Dusseldorf.
The worst violence and behaviour I've ever seen was Spurs v Chelsea a few years back, went as a guest sat near the Chelsea end and the abuse and objects being thrown from the Spurs fans was unbelievable, never experienced an atmosphere like it.
For all the good and bad, I genuinely cannot in my heart of hearts hope any foreign team beats an English team, 
My ideal scenario, apart from Everton, was the 2008 CL Final, English winner guaranteed and I didn't care who won so long as it was a good game for the nuetral.


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 13, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Do I have to leave this thread now? 

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You can hide on Monday?


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 13, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Man Utd fans are amongst those who have chucked the bottles so it changes nothing as far as I'm concerned.
		
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Every club has idiots that will throw bottles/bricks or hurl racist abuse etc. Including Chelsea. But you still want Chelsea to win when they are playing. So you are prepared to accept that sort of behaviour from your own fans but not from other fans?


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## pokerjoke (Oct 13, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			You can hide on Monday? 

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Some will be hiding for weeks:whoo:


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 13, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Every club has idiots that will throw bottles/bricks or hurl racist abuse etc. Including Chelsea. But you still want Chelsea to win when they are playing. So you are prepared to accept that sort of behaviour from your own fans but not from other fans?
		
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I don't find that sort of behaviour acceptable from any fans, *particularly* Chelsea fans.  I specifically avoided mentioning any particular club in my post to avoid the usual accusations about singly out certain clubs.  The one exception to singling out particular clubs was Chelsea, when I referred to "the cretinous element amongst the Chelsea fans".  That should be fairly obvious to anyone except for the hard of thinking that this was an acknowledgement that we have an unacceptable element.  But not apparently to you. 

Paul's post revolved around why fans don't support *other* English clubs in Europe.  I gave him an explanation of why I don't support *other* English clubs in Europe.  You've tried to twist that into a slagging of fans of other English clubs whilst accepting the same sort of behaviour from fans of my own club, which it wasn't and never will be.  I made the mistake of thinking you were asking a serious question rather than trying to stitch me up.  I won't be making it again.  Goodnight.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 13, 2016)

I will accept that you have no genuine response as you have resorted to insults. 

It was a serious question as you mentioned fan behaviour as one of the reasons for not supporting other clubs. I wasn't trying to stitch you up but it seems very hypocritical to not support other clubs for that reason when a minority of Chelsea fans behave the same way. Why is it that you accept that you have a "cretinous element" but you can still support your team but other clubs having that same "cretinous element" means that you can't support them?


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## USER1999 (Oct 13, 2016)

Imurg said:



			What I don't get is those who support England Rugby, Cricket, Hockey, Tiddlywinks etc but don't support the football team...why?
And don't come back with " Its my choice" that's like saying "You're wrong, because you are".
If you can support the National team in one sport, why not another one.....?
		
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Because most of the players in the footy team are morally bankrupt and thoroughly reprehensible?


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## davemc1 (Oct 13, 2016)

Just looked at the weekends fixtures. Can see wins for chelsea, arsenal, spurs and city. Potentially be a vbad week for whoever loses ground on monday.


Potentially a very sore head on tuesday however it ends up


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## Kellfire (Oct 14, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			BiM, how about if Man Utd were playing Bayern Munich in the CL final with Chelsea having finished 4th in the league. The PL would lose their 4th CL place if Man Utd didn't win the final due to the coefficient. Would you rather Chelsea missed out on CL football the following year and have Bayern win the final or have Man Utd win so Chelsea qualified the following year?
		
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This can't happen as the current season's results don't directly influence the following season, it's factored in the season after next.


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 14, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Some will be hiding for weeks:whoo:
		
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Just hope it's not me!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 15, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Just looked at the weekends fixtures. Can see wins for chelsea, arsenal, spurs and city. Potentially be a vbad week for whoever loses ground on monday.


Potentially a very sore head on tuesday however it ends up
		
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2 out of 4 mate, not bad&#128515;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 15, 2016)

Very happy with a point at City, Steklenburg saves 2 penalties and pulls off a couple of worldies, please for him after the stick he took midweek for Holland.
City dominated and will be feeling that's 2 points dropped.


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## sawtooth (Oct 15, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Very happy with a point at City, Steklenburg saves 2 penalties and pulls off a couple of worldies, please for him after the stick he took midweek for Holland.
City dominated and will be feeling that's 2 points dropped.
		
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Yes so you should be that was a great point.

Arsenal win again , Spurs draw and Leicester lose to Chelsea ;-)

Just hope Liverpool beat Utd on Monday to cap a great weekend for Arsenal. )


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 15, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Just hope Liverpool beat Utd on Monday to cap a great weekend for Arsenal. )
		
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No, If Lpool win they have a chance of going top and we'll never hear the end of it :rofl:


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 15, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			No, If Lpool win they have a chance of going top and we'll never hear the end of it :rofl:
		
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Thought someone once said on here the tables don't count until 10 games have been played. On the plus side they'd have to win by a three goal margin to go top on GD


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## sawtooth (Oct 15, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Thought someone once said on here the tables don't count until 10 games have been played. On the plus side they'd have to win by a three goal margin to go top on GD
		
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I thought the top 4 would be the 2 Manchester and North London teams in no particular order.

After 8 games I haven't changed my mind , obviously there's a long way to go still.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 15, 2016)

I simply can't see Man United getting into the top four on what I've seen this season


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 15, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I thought the top 4 would be the 2 Manchester and North London teams in no particular order.

After 8 games I haven't changed my mind , obviously there's a long way to go still.
		
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Unfortunately the team playing the best football after City is LPool, what have you seen in the 3 apart from City that makes you think they'll finish above LPool going on the 8 games so far?


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## Tashyboy (Oct 15, 2016)

Thought City played really well today, for the first time Silva, De Bruyne and Gundowan or however you spell his name played in the middle of the park and the just purred. Everton were defensively well organised.
Loved listening to that Younited muppet on talk sport saying that Guardiola has now been found out. not by Maureen he wasn't. Looks like being a good season for the premier league.


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## sawtooth (Oct 15, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Unfortunately the team playing the best football after City is LPool, what have you seen in the 3 apart from City that makes you think they'll finish above LPool going on the 8 games so far?
		
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Arsenal and Spurs will stay the distance, they did last year and they strengthened where they needed to in the Summer.

Mourinho is work in progress at Utd and they have sufficient quality in their squad to make top 4

Liverpool are working harder than any team I know and I don't think they will be able to sustain that for the 38 games. Not having Europe will help a bit but I think if they lose 1-2 important players they will suffer a bit.

Conte will need a season to sort out Chelsea.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 15, 2016)

Wow, some saves there today by Stekelenberg.

Walcott my captain in fantasy footy, should have had 50 points alone from him today.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Unfortunately there are thoughs who wish to see England fail #SNE
		
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Are still not over it yet?


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## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			What is SNE?
		
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Scouse Not English


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## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			You can hide on Monday? 

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Have you sold that rock


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 16, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Are still not over it yet?
		
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That's so last week, did you have nice holiday?:thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 16, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Arsenal and Spurs will stay the distance, they did last year and they strengthened where they needed to in the Summer.

Mourinho is work in progress at Utd and they have sufficient quality in their squad to make top 4

Liverpool are working harder than any team I know and I don't think they will be able to sustain that for the 38 games. Not having Europe will help a bit but I think if they lose 1-2 important players they will suffer a bit.

Conte will need a season to sort out Chelsea.
		
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Seeing as how LPool coped with both you and Spuds and that was before they hit form, I'd be careful writing them off, hope you're right, but after 8 games they are City's main rivals imo (it hurts to type that )


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## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			That's so last week, did you have nice holiday?:thup:
		
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It was originally so last 3yrs ago but nevermind :ears:

It was sound.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Arsenal and Spurs will stay the distance, they did last year and they strengthened where they needed to in the Summer.

Mourinho is work in progress at Utd and they have sufficient quality in their squad to make top 4
*
Liverpool are working harder than any team I know and I don't think they will be able to sustain that for the 38 games*. Not having Europe will help a bit but I think if they lose 1-2 important players they will suffer a bit.

Conte will need a season to sort out Chelsea.
		
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There's no doubt they're working harder but it's a myth that we do it for 90mins.  In the majority of games I'd say we will have more possession which will be less intense running. 

Playing good football doesn't gaurantee success as Arsenal have proved in recent years.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 16, 2016)

One for Tashy and other City fans. Who takes your next penalty? Genuine question. Aguero is not that reliable, De Bruyne fluffed his chance. Do you have another taker who may now be given a chance? Maybe not one of the flash boys but a Baines or Milner who just keep putting them away. Strong wrists by Steklenbergs but they were a lovely height for him. Neither were good penalties.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 16, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			One for Tashy and other City fans. Who takes your next penalty? Genuine question. Aguero is not that reliable, De Bruyne fluffed his chance. Do you have another taker who may now be given a chance? Maybe not one of the flash boys but a Baines or Milner who just keep putting them away. Strong wrists by Steklenbergs but they were a lovely height for him. Neither were good penalties.
		
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Yaya was always pretty reliable.....


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## Piece (Oct 16, 2016)

Gawd that was ugly. But three points :whoo:


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## Tashyboy (Oct 16, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			One for Tashy and other City fans. Who takes your next penalty? Genuine question. Aguero is not that reliable, De Bruyne fluffed his chance. Do you have another taker who may now be given a chance? Maybe not one of the flash boys but a Baines or Milner who just keep putting them away. Strong wrists by Steklenbergs but they were a lovely height for him. Neither were good penalties.
		
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Its gotta be Aguero, he was getting slated before yesterday's game for missing one for the argues mid week. Bearing in mind Agueros missed five this season. Pep is massive on ironing out small irritations and penalty a would fit in that category. Think Aguero will hit 200 pens in training this week.
proper wound me up listening to talk sport yesterday, two weeks ago it was our keeper who was under pressure. Yesterday he was fantastic. Nowt was said though, Sterling was ripped to bits last year, he is transformed under Pep. Nowt was said though yesterday, he now cannot get in the England team. Stones was outstanding again yesterday. But pundits said he struggled against Lukaku a beast of a player. What game where that watching. Watching city this year is fantastic as a fan and neutral. But for some it's not enough. pep don't have a plan B, eh. Wingers were switched, Kompany played up front. Pundits who have not got a clue what goes on in Peps head question a manager who is at the top of the league. After five games a reporter asked if it was possible that City could win all four trophies he's was heard to say "FFS". Two games later after being asked that question City are now in a slump. Frustrating to hear all this Rammel as a city fan. :rant:


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 16, 2016)

No matter how frustrated you are always remember your life is so much better than that of a Sunderland fan &#128513;


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## Papas1982 (Oct 16, 2016)

Well it looks like our new manager knows what he's doing all of a sudden. 
Who can we skin for 30m next summer.


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 16, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Have you sold that rock 

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Got first refusal on it!


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## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Got first refusal on it! 

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I might need it, seeing as we're playing against 12men


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 16, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I might need it, seeing as we're playing against 12men 

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There's no truth in the rumour mr Taylor has a seat on the team coach! :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			There's no truth in the rumour mr Taylor has a seat on the team coach! :rofl:
		
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Nor is he a fully paid up member Of The USC


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## pokerjoke (Oct 16, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I might need it, seeing as we're playing against 12men 

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First excuse in:whoo:


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## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			First excuse in:whoo:
		
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No excuse just  surprised that a Manchester based ref is reffing arguably  the biggest game in English football. I wouldn't question the integrity of any referee's  as I think it's unfair. 

The media will have a field day  and I'm surprised it's been allowed to happen especially what happened last season with Kevin Friend who was removed from officiating the Spurs game because he's a Leicester fan.

We had it the other year aswell when we played City away and Lee Mason Was the ref.


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## anotherdouble (Oct 16, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			No excuse just  surprised that a Manchester based ref is reffing arguably  the biggest game in English football. I wouldn't question the integrity of any referee's  as I think it's unfair. 

The media will have a field day  and I'm surprised it's been allowed to happen especially what happened last season with Kevin Friend who was removed from officiating the Spurs game because he's a Leicester fan.

We had it the other year aswell when we played City away and Lee Mason Was the ref.
		
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Must be ok as he supports Altringham :thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 16, 2016)

LPool travelling fans on their way for tomorrow night

https://mobile.twitter.com/FinallyFirmino/status/787474634757341185


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 16, 2016)

This is even worse!
https://mobile.twitter.com/FinallyFirmino/status/787479978485186560


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## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			Must be ok as he supports Altringham :thup:
		
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Mike Dean should be allowed to referee us and everton then as he supports Tranmere. He lost a cup final gig a couple of  seasons  ago because Liverpool were in it.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			This is even worse!
https://mobile.twitter.com/FinallyFirmino/status/787479978485186560

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Embarrassing.


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## sawtooth (Oct 16, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			There's no doubt they're working harder but it's a myth that we do it for 90mins.  In the majority of games I'd say we will have more possession which will be less intense running. 

Playing good football doesn't gaurantee success as Arsenal have proved in recent years.
		
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You have more possession because of the intense running IMO.

I think it will take its toll on the players over the course of the season which is why I don't think you can finish top 4.


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## SaintHacker (Oct 16, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Well it looks like our new manager knows what he's doing all of a sudden. 
Who can we skin for 30m next summer.
		
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He's winning me round slowly but surely. Still not a fan of the system per se, particularly not in comparison to the way we played last season, but if it carries on getting results then good on him.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 16, 2016)

SaintHacker said:



			He's winning me round slowly but surely. Still not a fan of the system per se, particularly not in comparison to the way we played last season, but if it carries on getting results then good on him.
		
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I think he's slowly realising what the players are good at too. Noticeably more pressing in the last few games. 

Granted Not as much as last year, also a little more direct which I quite like. Not just long balls, but set the ball through to full backs, less 2 yard passes around an opponents box. 

Not convinced on redmond yet, but he seems to like him.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 16, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			You have more possession because of the intense running IMO.

I think it will take its toll on the players over the course of the season which is why I don't think you can finish top 4.
		
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If they have possession for 70% of the game, how can they get to tired overly exerting themselves for 20 mins a game? 

Last season son was a culture shock for em and fatigue did hit em, but a full Klopp preseason will have increased their fitness. Plus, saints have been high press for the last few years so half their team can handle it already


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## Tashyboy (Oct 16, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No matter how frustrated you are always remember your life is so much better than that of a Sunderland fan &#62977;
		
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Suddenly a great weight has been lifted from my shoulders, cheers Lord T. What's your thoughts on Mr Moyes saying you are in a relegation battle.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			You have more possession because of the intense running IMO.

I think it will take its toll on the players over the course of the season which is why I don't think you can finish top 4.
		
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Only time will tell if your right but we are a lot fitter this stage Of The season compared to this time last season.

Everybody will get injuries that's part and parcel of football,  if were lucky enough to have fewer injuries than everybody else then great, if not we'll deal with it.

 We'll get more recovery time between games  than Arsenal City and spurs.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 16, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			Must be ok as he supports Altringham :thup:
		
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And when he goes the chippy he'll prob be served by a United fan, goes the pub, the barman will be a Stretford-ender........He shouldnt be put in that position. 

Lets face it if he gives us a major decision Mourinho will say, that he has tried to look too neutral, if he gives it to them we will say are you surprised, he lives in greater Manchester.

As everyone says "with refs we just want consistency", well thats gone out of the window for the ref's bosses. Mike Dean - no Liverpool/Everton games ever (and rightfully so). Even if you dont support that team, you still live in the area.

I think hes a crap ref anyway, and finding out he lives in Manchester just fills me with dread. I just hope that whoever wins, its down to their players and not the ref's decision.Totally wrong and the FA should have had a word with the refs.:thup:


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 16, 2016)

I thought all Man Utd fans lived in the south of England and the Far East so surely there's no issue with a ref that lives in Manchester taking charge of one of their games.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			And when he goes the chippy he'll prob be served by a United fan, goes the pub, the barman will be a Stretford-ender........He shouldnt be put in that position. 

Lets face it if he gives us a major decision Mourinho will say, that he has tried to look too neutral, if he gives it to them we will say are you surprised, he lives in greater Manchester.

As everyone says "with refs we just want consistency", well thats gone out of the window for the ref's bosses. Mike Dean - no Liverpool/Everton games ever (and rightfully so). Even if you dont support that team, you still live in the area.

I think hes a crap ref anyway, and finding out he lives in Manchester just fills me with dread. I just hope that whoever wins, its down to their players and not the ref's decision.Totally wrong and the FA should have had a word with the refs.:thup:
		
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Spot on though Mike Dean Is from the wirral and lives in north wales and can't ref us though Mike Jones from Chester can.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 16, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Spot on though Mike Dean Is from the wirral and lives in north wales and can't ref us though Mike Jones from Chester can.
		
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Mike Jones is a blue though.They must have a County road in Criccieth, as well.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Mike Jones is a blue though.They must have a County road in Criccieth, as well.
		
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He's not he supports Chester, and Dean supports Tranmere.

Just seen the City game on New Years Day has been brought forward to 530pm ko on New Years Eve to suit sky with no concern for supporters at all.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 16, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			He's not he supports Chester, and Dean supports Tranmere.

Just seen the City game on New Years Day has been brought forward to 530pm ko on New Years Eve to suit sky with no concern for supporters at all.
		
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Believe me, he's a blue.:thup:

I seen a list last week of who the premiership refs "say" they support. Hardly any of them had down a premiership side, makes you wonder if they dont want to miss out on some big games so say semi-pro and lower league teams.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Believe me, he's a blue.:thup:

I seen a list last week of who the premiership refs "say" they support. Hardly any of them had down a premiership side, makes you wonder if they dont want to miss out on some big games so say semi-pro and lower league teams.
		
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Where's your evidence??  :rofl:


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 16, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Where's your evidence??  :rofl:
		
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I was friendly with an ex-prem linesman.......before he made me redundant.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 16, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Believe me, he's a blue.:thup:

I seen a list last week of who the premiership refs "say" they support. Hardly any of them had down a premiership side, makes you wonder if they dont want to miss out on some big games so say semi-pro and lower league teams.
		
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He's ref'd Everton games, including v Chelsea when he allowed Terry's equaliser to stand, he's not a blue.

http://www.express.co.uk/pictures/galleries/5808/Premier-League-referees-teams-support-sportgalleries


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## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			He's ref'd Everton games, including v Chelsea when he allowed Terry's equaliser to stand, he's not a blue.
		
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And rightly so :whoo:


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## huds1475 (Oct 16, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			LPool travelling fans on their way for tomorrow night

https://mobile.twitter.com/FinallyFirmino/status/787474634757341185

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This is actually no more nauseating than any of the other versions I've heard to be fair.


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## user2010 (Oct 16, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			Must be ok as he supports Altringham :thup:
		
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That`s Altrincham.....


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 17, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			He's not he supports Chester, and Dean supports Tranmere.

Just seen the City game on New Years Day has been brought forward to 530pm ko on New Years Eve to suit sky with no concern for supporters at all.
		
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There were no games planned for New Year's Day as its a Sunday full fixtures Saturday NYE and bank holiday Monday. 
Wondered who the lucky ones were getting the Saturday evening slot on NYE. 
Bet the old bill are impressed too!


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 17, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Suddenly a great weight has been lifted from my shoulders, cheers Lord T. What's your thoughts on Mr Moyes saying you are in a relegation battle.
		
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Tashy, I'm actually an Everton fan, thank you for the point by the way, but as I live in the NE I am very aware of all things NE football. Sunderland are in a dire position and I think this is the year they go down. They have been poor for a number of years, no progress at all as far as I can see so frankly the league would be better off without them. Both Bournemouth and Watford have made more progress in 1 year than Sunderland have in 4 so I have no sympathy for them.

I think Moyes can rebuild them, they will need to do a Newcastle and go down a year though, but I thought his comments were poor. What message do you send to your players when you come out with that straight away. Their instant mindset is we are not good enough. Poor psychology for me, even though it was the truth. I would not be at all surprised to see Allardyce back there by Christmas.

Incidentally, back to your original point, listening to Talksport is bad for your health. Their whole remit is to annoy and irritate, to wind you up. There have some good presenters who play it straight, H & J stand out for me, but most of the others prod you to make you angry. They have a lot of sport on so they draw you in but it is bad for your blood pressure to listen to them too much. Enjoy watching City, forget them. You are seeing some of the best football ever seen in this country, lap it up.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			He's ref'd Everton games, including v Chelsea when he allowed Terry's equaliser to stand, he's not a blue.

http://www.express.co.uk/pictures/g...-League-referees-teams-support-sportgalleries

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Im sorry, but he's a blue. Never mind who they "declare" they support. Maybe he could put to one-side who he supported. 

He also allowed the beach ball goal against us, so got to be.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 17, 2016)

Cheers LT, was listening to a City fan on talk sport saying how he would not be happy watching Everton play like that every week. He must of been a glory hunter city fan coz Everton played better than we ever did up until six or seven years ago. 

On on holiday in Portugal last week or so, sat in a portugese resturaunt having peri piri chicken and steak which they screwed up an brought us a turkey stark instead
 ( al comment on that at the end) us tourists stuck out like a sore thumb as it was rammed with portugeseians. Anyway the guy on the next table had a thick Yorkshire accent and he just wanted to be heard by anyone within 10 yds. He came out with a comment that had me spluttering on Missis Ts Piri piri.

He says quote " I am a Leeds Utd fan and it is blatantly obvious that the premier league is missing us, but more importantly it needs us more than we need them". I heard it and more importantly Missis T heard it. She gave me that glare that said
 " shut yer cake hole". God I was dying to say summat. That aside Newcastle had the sixth highest attendance in Europe over the weekend and they didn't play in the premier league.

Anyway back to me meal, I ordered a nice big fat beef steak for me meal and turkey steak turned up. Missis T says " shudup and get it eaten, don't make a fuss it's a genuine mistake, anyway you like turkey", "yeah but I wanted steak", " shut up whinging and get it down you". So I did, and yes it was quite nice. So onto pudding. what with Tashyboys body being a temple/ruin I was not bothered but Missis T went for the ice cream with fruit on top. Only when it came it was ice cream with chocolate and nuts on top. Well didn't it just kick off " shudup and get it eaten " I said, inside I was in bits. " not on your life, I did not order this",  she glares at me. "I didn't order turkey", now am being a dick, she says. With that her arms waving in the air to the waiter. " this is not what I ordered she politely says" giving the same look to the waiter which I had earlier recieved in the evening with said Leeds fan. He had that in built radar which told him not to mess with Missis T and her ice cream.


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 17, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			. I just hope that whoever wins, its down to their players and not the ref's decision.:thup:
		
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Your going soft!  Its not how its how many!!!


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 17, 2016)

Tashy, great story, ha ha. 

Leeds fans are totally delusional, I am sure that bloke you overheard is not alone in thinking that. The reality is that when Leeds were in the PL they had a very unpleasant, racist section of fans, (note not all Leeds fans) and no one is missing them. The PL is a far nicer place without them.

Mmmm, a team go to City, pack the midfield, play on the break, come away with a point. Job done, welcome to the new world of Man City. You have a team that can take anyone apart so why would anyone throw players forward against you? We used the template of how to play a top team on their own ground and come away with something. Yes, we were lucky but you need to ride your luck sometimes. We don't play like that every week, that caller was a very silly boy. Koeman adapts his team to play the team in front of him and when you play a free flowing team like City you need to stifle their flow, makes sense to me. 

I saw the Newcastle fact in the paper this morning. Amazing stat. It is a football obsessed city but they can be hugely destructive. Just turning up every week doesn't make you a good supporter and the Toon fans often forget that. All good with the Rafalution so far though.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Tashy, great story, ha ha. 

Leeds fans are totally delusional, I am sure that bloke you overheard is not alone in thinking that. The reality is that when Leeds were in the PL they had a very unpleasant, racist section of fans, (note not all Leeds fans) and no one is missing them. The PL is a far nicer place without them.

Mmmm, a team go to City, pack the midfield, play on the break, come away with a point. Job done, welcome to the new world of Man City. You have a team that can take anyone apart so why would anyone throw players forward against you? We used the template of how to play a top team on their own ground and come away with something. Yes, we were lucky but you need to ride your luck sometimes. We don't play like that every week, that caller was a very silly boy. Koeman adapts his team to play the team in front of him and when you play a free flowing team like City you need to stifle their flow, makes sense to me. 

I saw the Newcastle fact in the paper this morning. Amazing stat. It is a football obsessed city but they can be hugely destructive. Just turning up every week doesn't make you a good supporter and the Toon fans often forget that. All good with the Rafalution so far though.
		
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Don't get carried away with the fantastic Newcastle support, they compete against no one for supporters, look at every other Club and they share a population and if it's not Football it's Rugby.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Im sorry, but he's a blue. Never mind who they "declare" they support. Maybe he could put to one-side who he supported.
		
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So he can put his loyalty aside, but tonights Ref gets stick before the match! :rofl:


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Don't get carried away with the fantastic Newcastle support, they compete against no one for supporters, look at every other Club and they share a population and if it's not Football it's Rugby.
		
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Never have done Paul. I think the "terrific fans" thing is a myth. They turn up, correct no other sport to follow, and they tear their own team to pieces. I've seen many home players targetted and picked on until they crack. I've been to many football matches, my dad used to be a scout, and I've never seen any fans look to demolish their own in the same way Newcastle fans do.

Having a great support is not a numbers game, it is about how you act. Crystal Palace are a great example of this, terrific home support.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So he can put his loyalty aside, but tonights Ref gets stick before the match! :rofl:
		
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Yes, cos not everyone is the same.

Do you think its right that a manc or a wirralite refs this match? Although weirdly enough the FA have allowed it twice in one way, but none in the other.....


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 17, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, cos not everyone is the same.

Do you think its right that a manc or a wirralite refs this match? Although weirdly enough the FA have allowed it twice in one way, but none in the other.....
		
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Conspiracy.......??


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 17, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Conspiracy.......??
		
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I'll let the facts speak for themselves.:ears:

U-N-I-T-E-D, Bryan Robson's got V.D...........


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, cos not everyone is the same.

Do you think its right that a manc or a wirralite refs this match? Although weirdly enough the FA have allowed it twice in one way, but none in the other.....
		
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I don't have an issue with it, they are professionals, not 13yr old boys.
Judge him afterwards, not before.


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 17, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'll let the facts speak for themselves.:ears:

U-N-I-T-E-D, Bryan Robson's got V.D...........
		
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Repeat 20 times???


Enj Naah I don't mean that! Have fun!


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 17, 2016)

All a bit cagey so far and not many chances. Interesting tactical battle and I wonder if Jose wants to draw Liverpool out in the second half? Think it has been refereed very sensibly so far


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## Piece (Oct 17, 2016)

That was rubbish.


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## sawtooth (Oct 17, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			All a bit cagey so far and not many chances. Interesting tactical battle and I wonder if Jose wants to draw Liverpool out in the second half? Think it has been refereed very sensibly so far
		
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Working well for Mourinho and Utd so far. Sturridge hardly had a touch. Lallana should come on for him 2nd half.


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## Paperboy (Oct 17, 2016)

Lucas, should have started as the defensive midfielder with Henderson further up the pitch for me.

Emre Can has been distinctly average!!


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 17, 2016)

Better from Liverpool and great save from De Gea


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 17, 2016)

So who was it moaned...."they came, they parked the bus"??


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 17, 2016)

Better point for United I would say. Hardly adventurous and had a pretty clear game plan.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 17, 2016)

Bus was parked to gain a draw and two outstanding saves from De Gea got them the point - 

Neville shouldn't be able to commentate on Man Utd matches - beyond bias - did Herrera get the Motm for chasing Coutinho around ?! De Gea should have been motm for those two saves alone 

Does it say a lot that UTD turned up looking for a draw - Â£149mil spent and just didn't look threatening.

Not much really to say on the game - happy where we are right now at this stage of the season


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## Tashyboy (Oct 17, 2016)

Seven comments on here on the biggest game of the season so far. Really. That was proper rammel.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 17, 2016)

I think that the biggest thing to come out of the game tonight was that if you are a Man City, Arsenal or Tottenham fan then you shouldn't be too worried about your place in the top 4 at the end of the season. On tonight's performance there is no way that both Man Utd and Liverpool will both finish in the top 4 this season. One of them possibly. Both of them no chance. And I'd be happy to have a small wager in aid of next year's H4H if anyone thinks I'm talking rubbish and disagrees with me and thinks that they both will.


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## sawtooth (Oct 17, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Better point for United I would say. Hardly adventurous and had a pretty clear game plan.
		
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Yeah Utd will be very pleased with a point against the second favourites to win the league.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2016)

What a load of rubbish, Sturridge was awful, Llanana did more in his first 2 minutes than Sturridge did in 60.
Bad miss by Zlatan, great saves by De Gea.
93 minutes I'll never get back.


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## Slime (Oct 17, 2016)

I wasn't unable to watch the game as I play footy on a Monday.
I'll read all the reports later, but I'd like to know whether the ref had a good game or not.
Any comments on him?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2016)

Excellent interview from Klippetty, very honest and obviously frustrated.


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## Piece (Oct 17, 2016)

Slime said:



			I wasn't unable to watch the game as I play footy on a Monday.
I'll read all the reports later, but I'd like to know whether the ref had a good game or not.
Any comments on him?
		
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He was the best on the pitch. Snooze fest.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2016)

Slime said:



			I wasn't unable to watch the game as I play footy on a Monday.
I'll read all the reports later, but I'd like to know whether the ref had a good game or not.
Any comments on him?
		
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Best comment is that there are no comments, very well controlled and no contentious decisions.


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## sawtooth (Oct 17, 2016)

Slime said:



			I wasn't unable to watch the game as I play footy on a Monday.
I'll read all the reports later, but I'd like to know whether the ref had a good game or not.
Any comments on him?
		
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Yes he had an excellent game IMO.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 17, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yes he had an excellent game IMO.
		
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No major problems but wouldn't say excellent 

Allowed too many bookable fouls go earlier on and the game was getting very testy - Herrera should have gone in the book , so should have Henderson , could there have been a penalty for the shirt tugging on Can and then the challenge from Pogba on Milner ? Maybe - allowed too much shouting and screaming from certain players 

Wasn't the worst performance but certainly not "excellent"


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 17, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yes he had an excellent game IMO.
		
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:thup:

Let the game flow too rather than making it all about him.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 17, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			I think that the biggest thing to come out of the game tonight was that if you are a Man City, Arsenal or Tottenham fan then you shouldn't be too worried about your place in the top 4 at the end of the season. On tonight's performance there is no way that both Man Utd and Liverpool will both finish in the top 4 this season. One of them possibly. Both of them no chance. And I'd be happy to have a small wager in aid of next year's H4H if anyone thinks I'm talking rubbish and disagrees with me and thinks that they both will.
		
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Looks like theres no takers on that one Mr ColchesterFC &#128514;


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## TheDiablo (Oct 17, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No major problems but wouldn't say excellent 

Allowed too many bookable fouls go earlier on and the game was getting very testy - Herrera should have gone in the book , so should have Henderson , *could there have been a penalty for the shirt tugging on Can and then* *the challenge from Pogba on Milner* ? Maybe - allowed too much shouting and screaming from certain players 

Wasn't the worst performance but certainly not "excellent"
		
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Good grief what a load of tripe! The ref played advantage for United on the Pogba and Milner coming together, not a single Liverpool player appealed. The 'shirt pull' hasnt warranted a single replay in a game where Sky are gagging on things to cling onto to try and hype the game.

If anything he overcompensated and booked a couple of United players in the first half and then wasnt consistent with Lpool players (like you say about Henderson). 

I thought he did well, but nothing really to do tbh.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 17, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Looks like theres no takers on that one Mr ColchesterFC &#62978;
		
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That's because all Man Utd and Liverpool fans are total pussies and are too scared to take the bet. 

Or possibly that Liverpool fans realise that Man Utd are rubbish and will never finish in the top 4, Man Utd fans realise that Liverpool are rubbish and will never finish in the top 4, both sets of fans realise they are equally rubbish and won't both finish in the top 4 or both sets of fans hate the other so much that they could never bet on the other finishing in the top 4.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 17, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			That's because all Man Utd and Liverpool fans are total pussies and are too scared to take the bet. 

Or possibly that Liverpool fans realise that Man Utd are rubbish and will never finish in the top 4, Man Utd fans realise that Liverpool are rubbish and will never finish in the top 4, both sets of fans realise they are equally rubbish and won't both finish in the top 4 or both sets of fans hate the other so much that they could never bet on the other finishing in the top 4.
		
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Or it's just one game early in the season and its far too early to be making any bold judgements or claims just yet


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 17, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			I think that the biggest thing to come out of the game tonight was that if you are a Man City, Arsenal or Tottenham fan then you shouldn't be too worried about your place in the top 4 at the end of the season. On tonight's performance there is no way that both Man Utd and Liverpool will both finish in the top 4 this season. One of them possibly. Both of them no chance. And I'd be happy to have a small wager in aid of next year's H4H if anyone thinks I'm talking rubbish and disagrees with me and thinks that they both will.
		
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I probably agree that both wont, but why are we judging any team on 1 performance? Daft? So by rights if you judge Arsenal (in 2nd place and finished second last season) on their performance against Liverpool - they have no chance.

League position is based on 38 results, not one performance.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 17, 2016)

I'm sorry but the ref was crap.

Talk about stifling a game by giving fouls (to the defensive team) when ever it got close to the box. 

Also for a ref who is normally card happy in games I've seen him in allowed Herrera and Ibrahimovic virtually unlimited fouls, then booked Bailly for nothing and his first foul. I think he stopped any flow to the game and played everything safe.

He also asked Milner to leave the pitch after a head injury, he had let the ball be put out for a throw in then started the game with a free kick to United. How can Can have the ball in the box for 3-4 seconds in a scoring position and his shirt be pulled so obviously - yeah great reffing.

Poor game, I was surprised Man U only had 35% possession, as it felt like more at the match,, and thought they played well 1st half, without threatening too much. Glad to have a clean sheet for a change.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2016)

No matter how good or bad yerniteds tactics were, I'm annoyed that we got into the battle of long balls etc and not keep the ball on the floor. 2nd half was better but still not good enough, it's games like this we lack quality experience in the middle of the park.

I can't remember seeing a yernited back 6 at anfield neither.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So he can put his loyalty aside, but tonights Ref gets stick before the match! :rofl:
		
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OK, is it beyond the realms of possibility that if he had given Liverpool a controversial goal, that he could fear for his safety in Manchester tomorrow?

Shouldn't the FA have a duty of care?

We'd never hear the last of it if a Liverpool supporting ref, reffed Everton and made a bad decision. They shouldnt be put in that posittion.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			OK, is it beyond the realms of possibility that if he had given Liverpool a controversial goal, that he could fear for his safety in Manchester tomorrow?

Shouldn't the FA have a duty of care?

We'd never hear the last of it if a Liverpool supporting ref, reffed Everton and made a bad decision. They shouldnt be put in that posittion.
		
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Can't believe your faulting his performance tonight, totally grey man, sounds more like your frustrations with your performance than the Refs.

Every game ever fans will see decisions differently, no players apart from Young (rightly booked) got in his face and if Can had scored I'm sure you'd be posting that the Ref should've blown before he kicked it past De Gea and given the penalty

We can spend all night inventing scenarios that never might happen and as for Everton fans going on about decisions, who mentioned the beach ball at Sunderland and blamed the "blue" ref :rofl:


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Can't believe your faulting his performance tonight, totally grey man, sounds more like your frustrations with your performance than the Refs.

Every game ever fans will see decisions differently, no players apart from Young (rightly booked) got in his face and if Can had scored I'm sure you'd be posting that the Ref should've blown before he kicked it past De Gea and given the penalty

We can spend all night inventing scenarios that never might happen and as for Everton fans going on about decisions, who mentioned the beach ball at Sunderland and blamed the "blue" ref :rofl:
		
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Nope I'm faulting the ref as he stifled the game. We werent great and neither were United, but every time a situation arose near the box the ref just gave a foul to the defensive team nearly all the time. 

You are saying he had a good game - why? Uncontoversial yes, but he didnt allow anything controversial to even happen and "managed" the game in that way.

Normally players are booked after 2, maybe 3 fouls these days. I wouldnt be surprised if Herrera did 7 or Ibrahimovic 10 fouls before being booked.

Clive Thomas?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Nope I'm faulting the ref as he stifled the game. We werent great and neither were United, but every time a situation arose near the box the ref just gave a foul to the defensive team nearly all the time. 

You are saying he had a good game - why? Uncontoversial yes, but he didnt allow anything controversial to even happen and "managed" the game in that way.

Normally players are booked after 2, maybe 3 fouls these days. I wouldnt be surprised if Herrera did 7 or Ibrahimovic 10 fouls before being booked.

Clive Thomas?
		
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United came to frustrate and they did, none of the players, managers or pundits mentioned the Ref after the game, that's a big plus for me, no talk of him not letting the game flow etc.
Most LPool fans had made up their mind about him before a ball was kicked, if he'd of thrown yellows about he'd be accussed of over reacting and losing control.

Have a listen to Klippetty's Post match interview with Sky, excellent and spot on.

Clive Thomas, disgrace, should never of been allowed to Ref another match after that monumental mistake


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			United came to frustrate and they did, none of the players, managers or pundits mentioned the Ref after the game, that's a big plus for me, no talk of him not letting the game flow etc.
Most LPool fans had made up their mind about him before a ball was kicked, if he'd of thrown yellows about he'd be accussed of over reacting and losing control.

Have a listen to Klippetty's Post match interview with Sky, excellent and spot on.

Clive Thomas, disgrace, should never of been allowed to Ref another match after that monumental mistake 

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Unlike lots on here, I dont need journalists or pundits to make up my mind for me. I rely on original thought.

You still havent said if its "right", or not, that he should be in that position. He lives 6 miles away from Old Trafford.

BTW - he was 10 yards away from Can with an unimpeded view of Smalling pulling his shirt.


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## davemc1 (Oct 18, 2016)

Fair result in a very uninspiring game. One fantastic save, one good save and one bad miss were the total highlights.

seemed like 2 teams more scared of losing

oh, an Stu c, still to early for a opinion on krapius..? I mean 
karius &#128557;


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 18, 2016)

As the home side I thought Liverpool were reluctant to take too many chances to win the game bar the two efforts De Gea made good saves from. United came with a clear plan and Liverpool had no answer. Thought their forwards were poor. To be fair to the ref I thought given the fuss made he was in a no win situation and actually handled it well especially early on when a few tackles were flying in and it could have got out of hand. All in all though a bit of a damp squib


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 18, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or it's just one game early in the season and its far too early to be making any bold judgements or claims just yet
		
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Of course, you could always take the wager up then if you think that


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## sawtooth (Oct 18, 2016)

No ref in the world can get every single decision correct over 90 minutes. He got most things correct and if he seemed to over officiate it was probably to stop the tackles getting out of control. You would be moaning more if one of your players were on crutches this morning or nursing a broken cheekbone due to a fellaini elbow.

if it was decided on points then Liverpool would have won the game hands down. But fair play to United they defended very well.


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## Junior (Oct 18, 2016)

Terrible match.  For the hundreds of millions of pounds worth of players on the pitch it was shocking.  I dont think Liverpool deserved to win but if one of those Coutinio efforts had crept in it would have served United right for being so defensive.  I expected us to play a back 6, thats what our manager does against big teams.  We just dont have the pace to counter.  

One thing is for sure , Citeh are not quaking in their boots.


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## Piece (Oct 18, 2016)

As a neutral, the ref was excellent. Managed it well, without throwing cards randomly or unnecessarily. If he had let tackles go, it would have escalated very quickly and someone would have been sent off. He would have been accused of losing control then.

Shows how the poor the game was if we're discussing the ref who had a decent game.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 18, 2016)

Piece said:



			As a neutral, the ref was excellent. Managed it well, without throwing cards randomly or unnecessarily. If he had let tackles go, it would have escalated very quickly and someone would have been sent off. He would have been accused of losing control then.

Shows how the poor the game was if we're discussing the ref who had a decent game.
		
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Rubbish, should 2 players be allowed to get away with 8-9 fouls?

Herrera did some great stuff in the game, but if your allowed to make 6-7 fouls without getting booked you can be the best defensive midfielder in the world.

What is the average number of fouls allowed in the prem these days before your booked  - 3? 4 if your lucky. just because Ibrahimovic is a forward also doesn't give you more leeway - same for him.

There were 3 main reasons it was a crap game. The way the ref "managed" the game, Mourinho's tactics and our poor passing (and Man u's good pressing) in the first half. Klopp also should have played Origi.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 18, 2016)

Junior said:



			Terrible match.  For the hundreds of millions of pounds worth of players on the pitch it was shocking.  I dont think Liverpool deserved to win but if one of those Coutinio efforts had crept in it would have served United right for being so defensive.  I expected us to play a back 6, thats what our manager does against big teams.  We just dont have the pace to counter.  

One thing is for sure , Citeh are not quaking in their boots.
		
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The thing is this early in the season City have form, so do Spuds and the Arsenal. Utd, Leicester and a fare few others don't. Ave said this to Missis T, if City can be there or there about when the Jan sales come along and so does Jesus from Brazil Then Pep will kick on. Don't matter who Maureen buys, it will still be boring to watch and a million miles away from the sides Fergie put out.


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## Junior (Oct 18, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Rubbish, should 2 players be allowed to get away with 8-9 fouls?

Herrera did some great stuff in the game, but if your allowed to make 6-7 fouls without getting booked you can be the best defensive midfielder in the world.

What is the average number of fouls allowed in the prem these days before your booked  - 3? 4 if your lucky. just because Ibrahimovic is a forward also doesn't give you more leeway - same for him.

There were 3 main reasons it was a crap game. The way the ref "managed" the game, Mourinho's tactics and our poor passing (and Man u's good pressing) in the first half. Klopp also should have played Origi.
		
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I'm surprised Origi didnt come on sooner as opposed to 5 minutes from the end.  They were lording the Man U performance this morning on the radio.... first team this season to take points off Liverpool at home etc etc.  it doesn't sit well with me celebrating a draw.  What did you think of Pogba ?  I wanted him to be what De Bruyn is for Citeh, but so far this season I have been very disappointed. Despite the cross for Ibrahimovic's miss he didn't create much at all.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Rubbish, should 2 players be allowed to get away with 8-9 fouls?

Herrera did some great stuff in the game, but if your allowed to make 6-7 fouls without getting booked you can be the best defensive midfielder in the world.

What is the average number of fouls allowed in the prem these days before your booked  - 3? 4 if your lucky. just because Ibrahimovic is a forward also doesn't give you more leeway - same for him.

There were 3 main reasons it was a crap game. The way the ref "managed" the game, Mourinho's tactics and our poor passing (and Man u's good pressing) in the first half. Klopp also should have played Origi.
		
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Are those 3 reasons in priority order?
It's showing more and more your frustration at your own team, 99% of the time on here you're answers are honest, looks like last night is the 1% exception, nobody else saw the refs performance like you, Coutinho threw himself about a few times, Can gave as good as he got, but no mention of them, 
To have the old sly dig about people needing journo's and pundits opinions is beneath you, 
Maybe watching on the TV isn't as good as being there, but you do get to see things 3 or 4 times and from different angles.
Bad performance from you's, get over it, you won't see many like that.

On thr Ref, no issue were he lives said that on here over the weekend.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 18, 2016)

Junior said:



			What did you think of Pogba ?  I wanted him to be what De Bruyn is for Citeh, but so far this season I have been very disappointed. Despite the cross for Ibrahimovic's miss he didn't create much at all.
		
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Don't forget that this is De Bruyne's second season with Man City and he didn't exactly set the world alight at the start of his spell there. It wasn't really until the second half of last season that he started to put in the performances that we are now seeing. Pogba has only had a dozen games back at Man Utd so he might take a while to reach his best.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 18, 2016)

I was talking with Tashy yesterday about Everton being happy with a point at City and setting up to play on the break because we accept that City are currently on another level, both in playing and financial terms. What surprised me is that despite breaking the bank over the summer, despite getting in the self appointed best manager in the world, United did the same at Liverpool. Not City, Liverpool. What an enormous change in mentality at Old Trafford. Instead of expecting to be the best and aiming for the best they are grateful for a point and performances of that nature. Why bother blowing Â£90m on Pogba if that performance is your ambition. 

Can Utd fans tell me honestly that they have progressed from Van Gaal because I can't see it so far.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I was talking with Tashy yesterday about Everton being happy with a point at City and setting up to play on the break because we accept that City are currently on another level, both in playing and financial terms. What surprised me is that despite breaking the bank over the summer, despite getting in the self appointed best manager in the world, United did the same at Liverpool. Not City, Liverpool. What an enormous change in mentality at Old Trafford. Instead of expecting to be the best and aiming for the best they are grateful for a point and performances of that nature. Why bother blowing Â£90m on Pogba if that performance is your ambition. 

Can Utd fans tell me honestly that they have progressed from Van Gaal because I can't see it so far.
		
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He's 9 games into the season, is it fair to judge, LPool have to started the season very well and if any team goes to Anfield expecting to dominate or attack consistently then they'll probably get battered.
Jose has always been about tactics and last night he was playing a better team.
Jose and the players need time.
Koeman did the same at City and we're over the moon.


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## Junior (Oct 18, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			He's 9 games into the season, is it fair to judge, LPool have to started the season very well and if any team goes to Anfield expecting to dominate or attack consistently then they'll probably get battered.
Jose has always been about tactics and last night he was playing a better team.
Jose and the players need time.
		
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Your right. 9 games is not enough to judge him on. I hope Pogba comes good and adapts to the faster pace of the Prem.  Also worth remembering that these are the exact same tactics that won him his last title with Chelsea.    

I like Mata in the side, he is the one that finds the pass but he'll never get a start against the bigger teams and defensive tactics.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 18, 2016)

I agree Koeman did the same at City but in other matches this year Everton have played some really good football and we are seeing a pattern to their play that is really good to watch. Mourinho has bought big and yet the football is dull. Only 9 matches in but I don't see any progress. Going to Liverpool and having so little ambition in Utds position is really poor in my eyes. I don't expect them to go gung ho but I expect something. If Utd fans are happy with last night then that says something about where they are at the moment. Are you happy playing with that style?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I agree Koeman did the same at City but in other matches this year Everton have played some really good football and we are seeing a pattern to their play that is really good to watch. Mourinho has bought big and yet the football is dull. Only 9 matches in but I don't see any progress. Going to Liverpool and having so little ambition in Utds position is really poor in my eyes. I don't expect them to go gung ho but I expect something. If Utd fans are happy with last night then that says something about where they are at the moment. Are you happy playing with that style?
		
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8 games gone, 7th in the League and 5 points off top, not bad for poor team,
I'll be over the moon if we do the same at Anfield, very few teams will get anything at Anfield this season.


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 18, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I was talking with Tashy yesterday about Everton being happy with a point at City and setting up to play on the break because we accept that City are currently on another level, both in playing and financial terms. What surprised me is that despite breaking the bank over the summer, despite getting in the self appointed best manager in the world, United did the same at Liverpool. Not City, Liverpool. What an enormous change in mentality at Old Trafford. Instead of expecting to be the best and aiming for the best they are grateful for a point and performances of that nature. Why bother blowing Â£90m on Pogba if that performance is your ambition. 

Can Utd fans tell me honestly that they have progressed from Van Gaal because I can't see it so far.
		
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United have moved forward, not massively but its a work in progress there has been some good stuff so far and also so not so good!
Last night was a typical Jose performance away from home at a rival, tight compact and disruptive always been his way and always will be IMO. wrong maybe from an entertainment prove of view.
The biggest issue seems to be figuring out the best team and system with the players in the squad.
Pogba didn't do an awful lot last night but if Zlatan finishes the cross and its 1-0 he will have had an assist to win the game, no one else created anything much a few scraps from right wing crosses.


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 18, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			8 games gone, 7th in the League and 5 points off top, not bad for poor team,
I'll be over the moon if we do the same at Anfield, very few teams will get anything at Anfield this season.
		
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:thup:

Its still very early in the season remember this time last year Sity ribbons were already tied to the trophy


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 18, 2016)

Historically I would have taken a point at the start, however after the game I feel 2 points dropped. Utd played it well in the first half, and we didn't. Sturridge is just becoming more and more the lone sulk. He looks off the pace, disinterested and not team centred. I just hope the cramps appearing towards the end are not followed by strains or damage after their global travelling.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 18, 2016)

Very poor game as has been mentioned however this morning you would rather be in Utd shoes.

I couldn't believe how slow Liverpool were out the blocks I really did expect a high tempo high pressing first 20 mins but they just couldn't get the ball.

I also believe[a lot of believing going on] that Klopp is killing his players asking week in week out to play the high tempo pressing game,his players were dropping like flies at the end.

I think we missed a trick leaving Zlatan on so long I would have liked Rashford to have gone up top and Lingard or Young running at Milner,Rashford looked lost out wide.

Also not great for Liverpool or England as Sturridge and Henderson put in 2 of the worst performances ive seen in a long time,how the hell Henderson can be captain is a joke he is not a tenth of a Stevie G.

Top 4 for Utd no problem but Liverpool not a hope in hell they will be shot and shattered.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			No matter how good or bad yerniteds tactics were, I'm annoyed that we got into the battle of long balls etc and not keep the ball on the floor. 2nd half was better but still not good enough, it's games like this we lack quality experience in the middle of the park.

I can't remember seeing a yernited back 6 at anfield neither.
		
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Stu how do you rate Henderson?
To me last night every pass he made was either square or backwards


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## pokerjoke (Oct 18, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Seven comments on here on the biggest game of the season so far. Really. That was proper rammel.
		
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Remind me how you got on the weekend against that massive club.

And remind me again why your massive club cant fill a stadium,empty seats everywhere again.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 18, 2016)

Junior said:



			I'm surprised Origi didnt come on sooner as opposed to 5 minutes from the end.  They were lording the Man U performance this morning on the radio.... first team this season to take points off Liverpool at home etc etc.  it doesn't sit well with me celebrating a draw.  What did you think of Pogba ?  I wanted him to be what De Bruyn is for Citeh, but so far this season I have been very disappointed. Despite the cross for Ibrahimovic's miss he didn't create much at all.
		
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Pogba - I thought he was ok, but whenever he got the ball we got to him quick, which is the key.

If you give him space, let him turn he will give you trouble.I don't think his first touch is the best, but give him open spaces and he will hurt sides, or a big pitch (OT is one of the biggest, so will suit him).

I actually think he could be the problem from a shape point of view, ala Beardsley, Barmby, Barkley, Rooney (currently). A great footballer, if you can fit him into a position in the team, but can be a problem if you cant, in the overall picture. Find his niche and he could be a great buy, though and I'm not writing him off as could be a beast for you in the coming seasons.

Rooney is a good example of this - he's been a great buy for 10 years, or however long it was, but latterly as he has lost speed, now a problem for your team structure.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 18, 2016)

PJ -  I bet their fans went away better entertained though and probably will feel the same over the course of the year. I'd rather watch City get a point playing how they did than Utd do a good copy of West Brom. It is an entertainment business after all. Utd fans in the past would have ripped other fans if their team had performed the way they did last night.


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## davemc1 (Oct 18, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Very poor game as has been mentioned however this morning you would rather be in Utd shoes.

I couldn't believe how slow Liverpool were out the blocks I really did expect a high tempo high pressing first 20 mins but they just couldn't get the ball.

I also believe[a lot of believing going on] that Klopp is killing his players asking week in week out to play the high tempo pressing game,his players were dropping like flies at the end.

I think we missed a trick leaving Zlatan on so long I would have liked Rashford to have gone up top and Lingard or Young running at Milner,Rashford looked lost out wide.

Also not great for Liverpool or England as Sturridge and Henderson put in 2 of the worst performances ive seen in a long time,how the hell Henderson can be captain is a joke he is not a tenth of a Stevie G.

Top 4 for Utd no problem but Liverpool not a hope in hell they will be shot and shattered.
		
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Dropping like flies? Firmino and Coutinho had cramp, which was caused no end by the international break. Smalling also had cramp, whats his excuse?


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## pokerjoke (Oct 18, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Dropping like flies? Firmino and Coutinho had cramp, which was caused no end by the international break. Smalling also had cramp, whats his excuse?
		
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2-1 to Utd then.

Time will tell.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 18, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Dropping like flies? Firmino and Coutinho had cramp, which was caused no end by the international break. Smalling also had cramp, whats his excuse?
		
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Henderson must have been struggling with the weight of Pogba in his pocket as well  

Last night we didn't play very well yet Mancs offered not much threat to be honest. A lot of money was spent and doesn't seem to be much difference than last year. 9 men behind the ball looking for a point - it's not what you expect from Utd but i guess it's what you expect from Maureen. 

Will be surprised if they get top 4 this year


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## pokerjoke (Oct 18, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			PJ -  I bet their fans went away better entertained though and probably will feel the same over the course of the year. I'd rather watch City get a point playing how they did than Utd do a good copy of West Brom. It is an entertainment business after all. Utd fans in the past would have ripped other fans if their team had performed the way they did last night.
		
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Its not an entertainment business it is a results business.

I do agree though but its not just Utd fans in the past,we were poor last night along with Liverpool but not losing was as important.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 18, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Are those 3 reasons in priority order?
It's showing more and more your frustration at your own team, 99% of the time on here you're answers are honest, looks like last night is the 1% exception, nobody else saw the refs performance like you, Coutinho threw himself about a few times, Can gave as good as he got, but no mention of them, 
To have the old sly dig about people needing journo's and pundits opinions is beneath you, 
Maybe watching on the TV isn't as good as being there, but you do get to see things 3 or 4 times and from different angles.
Bad performance from you's, get over it, you won't see many like that.

On thr Ref, no issue were he lives said that on here over the weekend.
		
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No they are just the 3 main reasons I think contributed to a poor game.

The pundits/journoes remark is sadly true for the majority of football fans who just regurgitate what they listen/read, not aimed at anyone, but more a generalisation. 

Yes, I was frustrated but even the next day, I still have the same views, and I will still call it honestly, but always with a red "bent". 

That is what happens when you go the match, you get caught up in the emotion of the game, and still for hours and even days afterwards. people commenting from their SKY-vory towers might have every angle and opinion shoved down their throat, but seeing a ref/player in the flesh, incorporating the ebb and flow of football, decisions, atmosphere, strong tackles in the same environment that you are in as well as the officials and players. Ok, you may go home and that "no way was he offside" is 5 yards offside, never touched him(went right through him) can change your mind, but that ref kept a lid on that game.

Haven't we all had them refs who give you 20 fouls on the half way line, but the oppos 20 around your box. The stats just say 20 fouls each, but we all know there is a world of difference.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 18, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Henderson must have been struggling with the weight of Pogba in his pocket as well  

Last night we didn't play very well yet Mancs offered not much threat to be honest. A lot of money was spent and doesn't seem to be much difference than last year. 9 men behind the ball looking for a point - it's not what you expect from Utd but i guess it's what you expect from Maureen. 

Will be surprised if they get top 4 this year
		
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Troll alert

Theres no doubt your on the wind up Phil


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 18, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Remind me how you got on the weekend against that massive club.

And remind me again why your massive club cant fill a stadium,empty seats everywhere again.
		
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:rofl: :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 18, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Troll alert

Theres no doubt your on the wind up Phil
		
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Sorry but what exactly is getting you so wound up then in my post ?

Have i missed something in last nights game then or indeed any game so far that point to Mancs getting a top 4 slot and not Liverpool as you suggest ? 

You slated both Henderson and Sturridge from last night so you can remind us exactly what impact Pogba and Ibrahimovic had last night ?


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## pokerjoke (Oct 18, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Henderson must have been struggling with the weight of Pogba in his pocket as well  

Last night we didn't play very well yet Mancs offered not much threat to be honest. A lot of money was spent and doesn't seem to be much difference than last year. 9 men behind the ball looking for a point - it's not what you expect from Utd but i guess it's what you expect from Maureen. 

Will be surprised if they get top 4 this year
		
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pokerjoke said:



			Troll alert

Theres no doubt your on the wind up Phil
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but what exactly is getting you so wound up then in my post ?

Have i missed something in last nights game then or indeed any game so far that point to Mancs getting a top 4 slot and not Liverpool as you suggest ? 

You slated both Henderson and Sturridge from last night so you can remind us exactly what impact Pogba and Ibrahimovic had last night ?
		
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I am certainly not wound up but you are definitely on the wind up.

Do you seriously believe Henderson had Pogba in his pocket?

Do you seriously believe Utd are worse now than they were under LVG

A lot of money has been spent because Utd are a massive club that attracts the best players and the best players cost a lot of money and its not my money so I don't give a hoot how much they cost.

Pogba and Zlatan were poor but Pogba will no doubt get a lot better.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 18, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			I am certainly not wound up but you are definitely on the wind up.

Do you seriously believe Henderson had Pogba in his pocket?

Do you seriously believe Utd are worse now than they were under LVG

A lot of money has been spent because Utd are a massive club that attracts the best players and the best players cost a lot of money and its not my money so I don't give a hoot how much they cost.

Pogba and Zlatan were poor but Pogba will no doubt get a lot better.
		
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Pogba offered nothing last night and yes believe Henderson marshalled him very well 

I didn't say that Man Utd are worse now than under LVG - I said there doesn't seem to be much difference despite a big spend on players in the summer 

And yes I believe right now we are in a better position to get into the top 4 

So why is saying that me being a troll or on a wind up ?! It's just an opinion


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## pokerjoke (Oct 18, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Pogba offered nothing last night and yes believe Henderson marshalled him very well 

I didn't say that Man Utd are worse now than under LVG - I said there doesn't seem to be much difference despite a big spend on players in the summer 

And yes I believe right now we are in a better position to get into the top 4 

So why is saying that me being a troll or on a wind up ?! It's just an opinion
		
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:thup:


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## Kellfire (Oct 18, 2016)

Parking the bus comments are pathetic. As a Man Utd fan I've seen a multitude of teams "parking the bus" against us even when they are at home yet we have beat them consistently for most of my life.

If the so called "best attacking team of the season so far" as I've seen many claim have to rely on a couple of long range efforts to have a chance at scoring, then perhaps the issues lie with that team and not the team away from home, still finding their best formation and players with a manager still learning the team.

The match wasn't great for the spectator but as someone has said above, it's a results business NOT ENTERTAINMENT. That's just a desirable addition!

Both teams were poor going forward, both were good at shutting down the opposite and nullifying some good attacking players. Sometimes defensive outplays attack. It happened last night.

So let's not all cry collectively about how "football is ruined", the league is so poor blah blah blah. The two teams didn't decide to call it "Red Monday", Sky did. Whinge about them overhyping it. The two managers had a job to do and neither will lose any sleep over a 0-0 draw against the old enemy at this stage of the year.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but what exactly is getting you so wound up then in my post ?

Have i missed something in last nights game then or indeed any game so far that point to Mancs getting a top 4 slot and not Liverpool as you suggest ? 

You slated both Henderson and Sturridge from last night so you can remind us exactly what impact Pogba and Ibrahimovic had last night ?
		
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Twice you've mentioned the cost of Utd players (Â£149 Mil quoted I believe) Zlatan was on a free and looked better than Sturridge and Mane, how much did they cost, find it hilarious when people talk about other big teams spending, How much has Klopp spent?


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## freddielong (Oct 18, 2016)

It reminded me of a game at the Emirates from a couple of years ago when Maureen took his Chelski team there, admittedly as champions and stunk the place out, it was the game where he got upset by the crowd singing boring boring Chelsea,  he used the same anti tactics last night.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			No they are just the 3 main reasons I think contributed to a poor game.

The pundits/journoes remark is sadly true for the majority of football fans who just regurgitate what they listen/read, not aimed at anyone, but more a generalisation. 

Yes, I was frustrated but even the next day, I still have the same views, and I will still call it honestly, but always with a red "bent". 

*That is what happens when you go the match, you get caught up in the emotion of the game, and still for hours and even days afterwards. people commenting from their SKY-vory towers might have every angle and opinion shoved down their throat, but seeing a ref/player in the flesh, incorporating the ebb and flow of football, decisions, atmosphere, strong tackles in the same environment that you are in as well as the officials and players.* Ok, you may go home and that "no way was he offside" is 5 yards offside, never touched him(went right through him) can change your mind, but that ref kept a lid on that game.

Haven't we all had them refs who give you 20 fouls on the half way line, but the oppos 20 around your box. The stats just say 20 fouls each, but we all know there is a world of difference.
		
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So no neutral should watch a match on Sky without commenting on it because they weren't there and we have no opinion for ourselves we just listen to the biased pundits..........and you call us bitter!

Over 45 years of going to matches (more than some, less than others) imo opinion gives me the knowledge to watch a match on TV and comment in a fair and unbiased manner.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Parking the bus comments are pathetic. As a Man Utd fan I've seen a multitude of teams "parking the bus" against us even when they are at home yet we have beat them consistently for most of my life.

If the so called "best attacking team of the season so far" as I've seen many claim have to rely on a couple of long range efforts to have a chance at scoring, then perhaps the issues lie with that team and not the team away from home, still finding their best formation and players with a manager still learning the team.

The match wasn't great for the spectator but as someone has said above, it's a results business NOT ENTERTAINMENT. That's just a desirable addition!

Both teams were poor going forward, both were good at shutting down the opposite and nullifying some good attacking players. Sometimes defensive outplays attack. It happened last night.

So let's not all cry collectively about how "football is ruined", the league is so poor blah blah blah. The two teams didn't decide to call it "Red Monday", Sky did. Whinge about them overhyping it. The two managers had a job to do and neither will lose any sleep over a 0-0 draw against the old enemy at this stage of the year.
		
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:thup:


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## ger147 (Oct 18, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So no neutral should watch a match on Sky without commenting on it because they weren't there and we have no opinion for ourselves we just listen to the biased pundits..........and you call us bitter!

Over 45 years of going to matches (more than some, less than others) imo opinion gives me the knowledge to watch a match on TV and comment in a fair and unbiased manner.
		
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No offence intended but are you not an Everton fan? How can you claim to comment on a Liverpool game in an unbiased manner? Surely the whole point of supporting one team rather than another requires you to be biased?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 18, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Twice you've mentioned the cost of Utd players (Â£149 Mil quoted I believe) Zlatan was on a free and looked better than Sturridge and Mane, how much did they cost, find it hilarious when people talk about other big teams spending, How much has Klopp spent?
		
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Yes Â£149 mil was spent in the summer and how have Man Utd improved so far since then ?

Klopp has spent Â£65 mil with 6 players arriving and we have improved on the scores we got from the same games last season - 6 points better off ( believe we even made a Â£2mil profit in the transfer market this summer ) 

So for me our relative smaller spend is so far bearing better fruit than the larger spend of Mancs 

So do you not expect a bit more for the amount of money Maureen spend instead of a team looking to just get a point


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## Kellfire (Oct 18, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So do you not expect a bit more for the amount of money Maureen spend instead of a team looking to just get a point
		
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If you're as big a football fan as you seem to be you'll know that money is no guarantee of anything and that some players take time to settle in. 

You'll also know that we have now had three new managers in an incredibly short space of time at a club that is used to being steered by one captain for a quarter of a century and that it would be difficult for one new manager to have changed the style of a team, let alone one coming in after two failed attempts in three years.

So yea, basically either admit you're trolling with this constant nonsense about us spending loads this summer = we should now be the Harlem Globetrotters of football, or admit that you don't really know as much about football as you claim!


And this is said by someone who gets annoyed with how other posters pick on you!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes Â£149 mil was spent in the summer and how have Man Utd improved so far since then ?

Klopp has spent Â£65 mil with 6 players arriving and we have improved on the scores we got from the same games last season - 6 points better off ( believe we even made a Â£2mil profit in the transfer market this summer ) 

So for me our relative smaller spend is so far bearing better fruit than the larger spend of Mancs 

So do you not expect a bit more for the amount of money Maureen spend instead of a team looking to just get a point
		
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No I don't, You's are flying and Klopp has been there a year, Jose has had 8 games and is just starting, he went tactically and to spoil the way you play, it worked, he didn't set up to attack.

He got point at Anfield, as previously stated, I don't think many teams will. regardless of how much money they spend.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2016)

ger147 said:



			No offence intended but are you not an Everton fan? How can you claim to comment on a Liverpool game in an unbiased manner? Surely the whole point of supporting one team rather than another requires you to be biased?
		
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Because I was brought up being taken to both Everton and Liverpool as a kid, went for Everton as teenager, and genuinely believe I can watch any game objectively and give credit were credit is due, most of my posts have actually bigged up the start LPool have had to the season, sometimes people on here read the poster and not the post.

will be happy for LPool to be relegated though


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 18, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			If you're as big a football fan as you seem to be you'll know that money is no guarantee of anything and that some players take time to settle in. 

You'll also know that we have now had three new managers in an incredibly short space of time at a club that is used to being steered by one captain for a quarter of a century and that it would be difficult for one new manager to have changed the style of a team, let alone one coming in after two failed attempts in three years.

So yea, basically either admit you're trolling with this constant nonsense about us spending loads this summer = we should now be the Harlem Globetrotters of football, or admit that you don't really know as much about football as you claim!


And this is said by someone who gets annoyed with how other posters pick on you!
		
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Man Utd aren't the only team to go through managerial changes - it was only a year ago we changed our manager and have had plenty managerial changes over the years , same with City - managerial change at the beginning of the year with players arriving but I bet they would look for better than a draw away from home. 

I didn't say anything about "entertaining or Harlem Globtrotters" - just would not expect Man Utd or their fans to be settling for a point away at Liverpool , would not expect after getting players like Ibrahimovic and Pogba to be sitting deep with 9 men behind the ball and no threat on the counter - would expect at least a counter attack threat with pace

So yes I would expect a Man Utd team to do a hell of a lot more away at their biggest rival than what was served up last night - especially when you have people suggesting we have no chance at Top 4 and Man Utd do

But at the end of the day it's an opinion -  just like others post them , it does not make it trolling or winding up


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 18, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			will be happy for LPool to be relegated though

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:cheers:


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## ger147 (Oct 18, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Because I was brought up being taken to both Everton and Liverpool as a kid, went for Everton as teenager, and genuinely believe I can watch any game objectively and give credit were credit is due, most of my posts have actually bigged up the start LPool have had to the season, sometimes people on here read the poster and not the post.

will be happy for LPool to be relegated though

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Your last sentence confirming you're biased, which as a fan of their rivals you're supposed to be.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 18, 2016)

After all the pre-match hype I felt the ref did pretty well, getting most decisions right.

He could, possibly, have clamped down sooner on or two players; Herrera and Can spring to mind and could also have reminded one or two (Coutinho and Young) that it is not necessary to go to ground seeking a free-kick each time an opponent tackles you.

Very impressed by the maturity of Rashford in adhering to the game plan and supporting his full-back (as did Young) thereby negating any threat from Milner or Clyne.

Liverpool looked so much better with the arrival of Lallana and Firminho replacing Sturridge in the centre. But, based only on last night's performance it would appear that goal-keeper remains a problem position for them. This fella seems a real Dracula and is not yet filling his defenders with confidence.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 18, 2016)

Trolling is when it is obvious you are talking rubbish or fabricating a point that is obviously not true ie Pogba was in Henderson's pocket,or Utd have not got any better under Jose as apposed to LVG.I would not say that about Liverpool because they obviously are.


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## Kellfire (Oct 18, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			After all the pre-match hype I felt the ref did pretty well, getting most decisions right.

He could, possibly, have clamped down sooner on or two players; Herrera and Can spring to mind and could also have reminded one or two (Coutinho and Young) that it is not necessary to go to ground seeking a free-kick each time an opponent tackles you.

Very impressed by the maturity of Rashford in adhering to the game plan and supporting his full-back (as did Young) thereby negating any threat from Milner or Clyne.

Liverpool looked so much better with the arrival of Lallana and Firminho replacing Sturridge in the centre. But, based only on last night's performance it would appear that goal-keeper remains a problem position for them. This fella seems a real Dracula and is not yet filling his defenders with confidence.
		
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See, I thought Rashford was poor. The ball seemed to bounce off him all night, his second touch was too often a tackle/foul. Yes he stuck to the game plan which showed good attitude but he's wasted out there. We needed Mata playing last night more centrally to give some sort of control in the Liverpool half.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 18, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			See, I thought Rashford was poor. The ball seemed to bounce off him all night, his second touch was too often a tackle/foul. Yes he stuck to the game plan which showed good attitude but he's wasted out there. We needed Mata playing last night more centrally to give some sort of control in the Liverpool half.
		
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But then who would have countered the Liverpool full-back (just look how bad Rooney was in that role). Use of the full-backs as an attacking force has been one of Liverpool's most potent weapons this season.

With Man U's tactics last night Mata would have found the game passing him by.

Having said that I would agree that Rashford provides a much greater threat when not confined in his role but that was the plan.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 18, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So no neutral should watch a match on Sky without commenting on it because they weren't there and we have no opinion for ourselves we just listen to the biased pundits..........and you call us bitter!

Over 45 years of going to matches (more than some, less than others) imo opinion gives me the knowledge to watch a match on TV and comment in a fair and unbiased manner.
		
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You seem to have this knack of saying people have said things when they havent.

*WHERE HAVE I SAID THAT PEOPLE CANT COMMENT?*


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## Hobbit (Oct 18, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			You seem to have this knack of saying people have said things when they havent.

*WHERE HAVE I SAID THAT PEOPLE CANT COMMENT?*

Click to expand...


SSssshhhhh! Too loud man.

C'mon Boro!!


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## TheDiablo (Oct 18, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Rubbish, should 2 players be allowed to get away with 8-9 fouls?

Herrera did some great stuff in the game, but if your allowed to make 6-7 fouls without getting booked you can be the best defensive midfielder in the world.

What is the average number of fouls allowed in the prem these days before your booked  - 3? 4 if your lucky. just because Ibrahimovic is a forward also doesn't give you more leeway - same for him.

There were 3 main reasons it was a crap game. The way the ref "managed" the game, Mourinho's tactics and our poor passing (and Man u's good pressing) in the first half. Klopp also should have played Origi.
		
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Quick one - are you as enraged that Coutinho didnt get booked like you are with Herrera?

Crap game played by 2 crap sides. Without City and Arsenal in the league there would be no world class outfield players in the Prem - what a far cry from a decade ago. No wonder Sky are hyping everything so much when they're losing viewers quicker than I lose golf balls.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			You seem to have this knack of saying people have said things when they havent.

*WHERE HAVE I SAID THAT PEOPLE CANT COMMENT?*

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Probably from your constant subtle snipes about those that watch from armchairs or Sky vory towers etc, and how it's different from actually being there, it's the standard fall back position.


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## Kellfire (Oct 18, 2016)

TheDiablo said:



			Without City and Arsenal in the league there would be no world class outfield players in the Prem.
		
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Trolls gonna troll!

Games like this sure do bring out some ridiculous comments from people.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 18, 2016)

Paddy Power were certainly impressed with last night's match judging by this post on Facebook...........


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 18, 2016)

Ha ha, very funny and so true.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 18, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Fair result in a very uninspiring game. One fantastic save, one good save and one bad miss were the total highlights.

seemed like 2 teams more scared of losing

oh, an Stu c, still to early for a opinion on krapius..? I mean 
karius &#128557;
		
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You're entitled to form Your Own opinion  on him but I'm prepared to give him a season, he didn't do too much wrong last night, apart from a shocking pass back  from lovren which he should be doing better with.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 18, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Probably from your constant subtle snipes about those that watch from armchairs or Sky vory towers etc, and how it's different from actually being there, it's the standard fall back position.
		
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I was actually asked by someone on here last year about opinions from people who go the match and ones that dont.

 I said people were entitled to their OWN opinion, and some people who hardly ever go are the most insightful. I also have some right divvies by me who are there every week, and dont have the first clue about footy, so yet again it doesnt fit with what you are saying I'm saying.

I dont mind anyone's opinion as long as its their opinion and not just a regurgitated opinion, that is trotted out without any thoughts of their own, without an ounce of dissemination. Yes, I'll argue if I disagree, but what armchair fans dont see is both sides. You are at the match and see, hear and feel things (the pitch is slippy, a bit of rain in the air, cold, windy. The atmosphere (or lack of) in real terms, not how much sky turn the volumes up or down,  the tackles at pitch level, runs off the ball. Then you go home and watch it from 8 angles and sometimes see it differently.

You see everything on telly, but feel nothing! Its one dimensional, its sterile, its warm, you get beat then you turn over to Strictly or something.

You dont have that walk/drive home where your seething in the rain or elated in the sun. That 6 hour drive home from a cup final when you've been beat, or the 7 hour party that you dont want to end.

What does boil my onions is the derogatory look down from the sky season ticket holder, who says to the match-goer....well see it on the telly.....thats the reason we go so that we can shout and scream and head every ball, because its the game we still love, no matter that its harder to go and played by multi-millionaires who dont give a stuff about us. 

Ok, get your corner flag cam, your ref in the studio, your bet from the couch, your stat-attack, your 89" super duper 3d slow mo, but you know what your home made Bovril will never be better than it tastes on a cold Wednesday in Oldham.

Mis-represent that?


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## Stuart_C (Oct 18, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Stu how do you rate Henderson?
To me last night every pass he made was either square or backwards
		
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I think he's decent  but lacks that bit more quality, he's playing a bit deeper than he's used to and that position is a tough one to play. You can't judge him on last nights performance.

I wouldn't be too bothered if he was sold.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 18, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I was actually asked by someone on here last year about opinions from people who go the match and ones that dont.

 I said people were entitled to their OWN opinion, and some people who hardly ever go are the most insightful. I also have some right divvies by me who are there every week, and dont have the first clue about footy, so yet again it doesnt fit with what you are saying I'm saying.

I dont mind anyone's opinion as long as its their opinion and not just a regurgitated opinion, that is trotted out without any thoughts of their own, without an ounce of dissemination. Yes, I'll argue if I disagree, but what armchair fans dont see is both sides. You are at the match and see, hear and feel things (the pitch is slippy, a bit of rain in the air, cold, windy. The atmosphere (or lack of) in real terms, not how much sky turn the volumes up or down,  the tackles at pitch level, runs off the ball. Then you go home and watch it from 8 angles and sometimes see it differently.

You see everything on telly, but feel nothing! Its one dimensional, its sterile, its warm, you get beat then you turn over to Strictly or something.

You dont have that walk/drive home where your seething in the rain or elated in the sun. That 6 hour drive home from a cup final when you've been beat, or the 7 hour party that you dont want to end.

What does boil my onions is the derogatory look down from the sky season ticket holder, who says to the match-goer....well see it on the telly.....thats the reason we go so that we can shout and scream and head every ball, because its the game we still love, no matter that its harder to go and played by multi-millionaires who dont give a stuff about us. 

Ok, get your corner flag cam, your ref in the studio, your bet from the couch, your stat-attack, your 89" super duper 3d slow mo, but you know what your home made Bovril will never be better than it tastes on a cold Wednesday in Oldham.

Mis-represent that?
		
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Great post Ped.


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## sawtooth (Oct 18, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I was actually asked by someone on here last year about opinions from people who go the match and ones that dont.

 I said people were entitled to their OWN opinion, and some people who hardly ever go are the most insightful. I also have some right divvies by me who are there every week, and dont have the first clue about footy, so yet again it doesnt fit with what you are saying I'm saying.

I dont mind anyone's opinion as long as its their opinion and not just a regurgitated opinion, that is trotted out without any thoughts of their own, without an ounce of dissemination. Yes, I'll argue if I disagree, but what armchair fans dont see is both sides. You are at the match and see, hear and feel things (the pitch is slippy, a bit of rain in the air, cold, windy. The atmosphere (or lack of) in real terms, not how much sky turn the volumes up or down,  the tackles at pitch level, runs off the ball. Then you go home and watch it from 8 angles and sometimes see it differently.

You see everything on telly, but feel nothing! Its one dimensional, its sterile, its warm, you get beat then you turn over to Strictly or something.

You dont have that walk/drive home where your seething in the rain or elated in the sun. That 6 hour drive home from a cup final when you've been beat, or the 7 hour party that you dont want to end.

What does boil my onions is the derogatory look down from the sky season ticket holder, who says to the match-goer....well see it on the telly.....thats the reason we go so that we can shout and scream and head every ball, because its the game we still love, no matter that its harder to go and played by multi-millionaires who dont give a stuff about us. 

Ok, get your corner flag cam, your ref in the studio, your bet from the couch, your stat-attack, your 89" super duper 3d slow mo, but you know what your home made Bovril will never be better than it tastes on a cold Wednesday in Oldham.

Mis-represent that?
		
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Stuart_C said:



			Great post Ped.
		
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I'll second that. :thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I was actually asked by someone on here last year about opinions from people who go the match and ones that dont.

 I said people were entitled to their OWN opinion, and some people who hardly ever go are the most insightful. I also have some right divvies by me who are there every week, and dont have the first clue about footy, so yet again it doesnt fit with what you are saying I'm saying.

I dont mind anyone's opinion as long as its their opinion and not just a regurgitated opinion, that is trotted out without any thoughts of their own, without an ounce of dissemination. Yes, I'll argue if I disagree, but what armchair fans dont see is both sides. You are at the match and see, hear and feel things (the pitch is slippy, a bit of rain in the air, cold, windy. The atmosphere (or lack of) in real terms, not how much sky turn the volumes up or down,  the tackles at pitch level, runs off the ball. Then you go home and watch it from 8 angles and sometimes see it differently.

You see everything on telly, but feel nothing! Its one dimensional, its sterile, its warm, you get beat then you turn over to Strictly or something.

You dont have that walk/drive home where your seething in the rain or elated in the sun. That 6 hour drive home from a cup final when you've been beat, or the 7 hour party that you dont want to end.

What does boil my onions is the derogatory look down from the sky season ticket holder, who says to the match-goer....well see it on the telly.....thats the reason we go so that we can shout and scream and head every ball, because its the game we still love, no matter that its harder to go and played by multi-millionaires who dont give a stuff about us. 

Ok, get your corner flag cam, your ref in the studio, your bet from the couch, your stat-attack, your 89" super duper 3d slow mo, but you know what your home made Bovril will never be better than it tastes on a cold Wednesday in Oldham.

Mis-represent that?
		
Click to expand...

Nobody has ever said watching it on the Telly is better than going or you get a better experience, I take it you've never watched a game not involving LPool, because if you have surely you fall in line with everything you posted when you do? 

I mentioned last night that niether the managers or players or pundits commented on the Ref and your response was as follows;

"Unlike lots on here, I dont need journalists or pundits to make up my mind for me. I rely on original thought"

Totally ignored the fact that no one from either club mentioned it, just a comment having a dig at other posters implying we can't think for ourselves and regurgitate what we hear.

Done plenty of sh1tty nights in the cold and wet watching matches, makes no difference to forming an opinion on a game on the telly.


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 18, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I was actually asked by someone on here last year about opinions from people who go the match and ones that dont.

 I said people were entitled to their OWN opinion, and some people who hardly ever go are the most insightful. I also have some right divvies by me who are there every week, and dont have the first clue about footy, so yet again it doesnt fit with what you are saying I'm saying.

I dont mind anyone's opinion as long as its their opinion and not just a regurgitated opinion, that is trotted out without any thoughts of their own, without an ounce of dissemination. Yes, I'll argue if I disagree, but what armchair fans dont see is both sides. You are at the match and see, hear and feel things (the pitch is slippy, a bit of rain in the air, cold, windy. The atmosphere (or lack of) in real terms, not how much sky turn the volumes up or down,  the tackles at pitch level, runs off the ball. Then you go home and watch it from 8 angles and sometimes see it differently.

You see everything on telly, but feel nothing! Its one dimensional, its sterile, its warm, you get beat then you turn over to Strictly or something.

You dont have that walk/drive home where your seething in the rain or elated in the sun. That 6 hour drive home from a cup final when you've been beat, or the 7 hour party that you dont want to end.

What does boil my onions is the derogatory look down from the sky season ticket holder, who says to the match-goer....well see it on the telly.....thats the reason we go so that we can shout and scream and head every ball, because its the game we still love, no matter that its harder to go and played by multi-millionaires who dont give a stuff about us. 

Ok, get your corner flag cam, your ref in the studio, your bet from the couch, your stat-attack, your 89" super duper 3d slow mo, but you know what your home made Bovril will never be better than it tastes on a cold Wednesday in Oldham.

Mis-represent that?
		
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Bovril in Oldham they've gone up market I thought it was beef tea there.......


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## sawtooth (Oct 18, 2016)

Vardy not scored in 9 games now. 

#justsaying


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## TheDiablo (Oct 18, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Trolls gonna troll!

Games like this sure do bring out some ridiculous comments from people.
		
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Not sure where the trolling is? Name a genuinely world class outfilelder in the prem outside of those clubs? World class to me is top 5 in their position. 

Sure, there's a handful on the level below that who are very good footballers,  but I stick by my comments that the league is miles and miles behind where it was 10 years ago.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 18, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Nobody has ever said watching it on the Telly is better than going or you get a better experience, I take it you've never watched a game not involving LPool, because if you have surely you fall in line with everything you posted when you do? 

I mentioned last night that niether the managers or players or pundits commented on the Ref and your response was as follows;

"Unlike lots on here, I dont need journalists or pundits to make up my mind for me. I rely on original thought"

Totally ignored the fact that no one from either club mentioned it, just a comment having a dig at other posters implying we can't think for ourselves and regurgitate what we hear.

Done plenty of sh1tty nights in the cold and wet watching matches, makes no difference to forming an opinion on a game on the telly.
		
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So just because the pundits or managers never mentioned  the refs poor performance, he done well?

For the record  I agree with LB, I thought he gave the easy decisions and the booking of Bailly was  hilarious.


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			So just because the pundits or managers never mentioned  the refs poor performance, he done well?

For the record  I agree with LB, I thought he gave the easy decisions and the booking of Bailly was  hilarious.
		
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Intially I thought why the Bailly booking but seeing the replay it was a correct decision IMO but then to let Henderson off for the same thing was a bit inconsistant


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## Stuart_C (Oct 18, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Intially I thought why the Bailly booking but seeing the replay it was a correct decision IMO but then to let Henderson off for the same thing was a bit inconsistant
		
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I've not seen it back yet but it looked like it was one of those where he'd let quite a few tackles go  but he needed  to make sure everybody knew he  was in control  so the next foul was going to be a booking. 

Rashford looked great as a RB


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			So just because the pundits or managers never mentioned  the refs poor performance, he done well?

For the record  I agree with LB, I thought he gave the easy decisions and the booking of Bailly was  hilarious.
		
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No Stu, wrong context mate, the point I was trying to make was Pete ignored the 2 clubs saying nothing, zero'd in on journos and pundits and made the comment about people on here not being able to think for themselves.


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## garyinderry (Oct 18, 2016)

Henderson's idea of rock and roll football is a 50yard pass back to the goal keeper.   :rofl:  


BOOM indeed :mmm:


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## Tashyboy (Oct 19, 2016)

Ok, get your corner flag cam, your ref in the studio, your bet from the couch, your stat-attack, your 89" super duper 3d slow mo, but you know what your home made Bovril will never be better than it tastes on a cold Wednesday in Oldham.

Oi, I took me home made Bovril to the City game on Saturday for the first time ever in my special flask which fits snugly in me coat so I can smuggle it into the game. I can confirm that it tastes just as nice as Oldham's..

That kind of slander deserves an infraction. :whoo:


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2016)

Many years ago, in my student days at Newcastle, I used to go to their home matches. One Boxing Day they were away at Oldham so I made the short journey from my mums to Boundary Park. Just to date this John Burridge was in goal and Oldham played on one of the original astroturf pitches. Anyway, Boxing Day, the away fans were behind the goal with no stand to protect them from the wind coming off the hills. No question the coldest I have ever been at a football match. Perishing. Just to finish it off Oldham won 1-0 with a deflected goal that spun past Burridge in a way that couldn't happen on grass in football but occasionally catches out a fielder in cricket. I would have loved a Bovril but I think I was too cold to move and walk to the van selling it in the corner. Never been back.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 19, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			No Stu, wrong context mate, the point I was trying to make was Pete ignored the 2 clubs saying nothing, zero'd in on journos and pundits and made the comment about people on here not being able to think for themselves.
		
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I tell you what paul, don't quote me ever again - as you keep saying things I haven't said.

I have said SOME, and I don't just mean it on here, but in all walks of life.


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## Kellfire (Oct 19, 2016)

TheDiablo said:



			Name a genuinely world class outfilelder in the prem outside of those clubs?
		
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In my eyes, Pogba, Mkhitaryan and Ibrahimovic definitely fit the bill at Man Utd with Mata very close.

Countinho would be viewed as such by many though I'd disagree.

At Spurs I'd say Alderweireld definitely and Vertonghen is damn close if not already. They're arguably the best CB pairing in world football for me. I think Harry Kane is very close, but he does have these "cold" spells and then scores for fun. More consistency and I'd say he's up there.

Chelsea have Hazard, Matic and Costa which for me walk into every squad in the world, too. Kante obviously needs time to prove it's not a flash in the pan but I feel he has what it takes, too.

Mahrez is another debateable one at Leicester.


And I know it doesn't fit your criteria but the standard of keeper isn't to be sniffed at - De Gea, Lloris and Courtois are arguably the three best in the world and there aren't many teams who wouldn't want a player of Cech's calibre.

All just my opinion I suppose but they're all top quality players.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 19, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I tell you what paul, don't quote me ever again - as you keep saying things I haven't said.

I have said SOME, and I don't just mean it on here, but in all walks of life.
		
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Didn't say you said all, but when responding to someone direct, why wouldn't they think it was directed at them?


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## TheDiablo (Oct 19, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			In my eyes, Pogba, Mkhitaryan and Ibrahimovic definitely fit the bill at Man Utd with Mata very close.

Countinho would be viewed as such by many though I'd disagree.

At Spurs I'd say Alderweireld definitely and Vertonghen is damn close if not already. They're arguably the best CB pairing in world football for me. I think Harry Kane is very close, but he does have these "cold" spells and then scores for fun. More consistency and I'd say he's up there.

Chelsea have Hazard, Matic and Costa which for me walk into every squad in the world, too. Kante obviously needs time to prove it's not a flash in the pan but I feel he has what it takes, too.

Mahrez is another debateable one at Leicester.


And I know it doesn't fit your criteria but the standard of keeper isn't to be sniffed at - De Gea, Lloris and Courtois are arguably the three best in the world and there aren't many teams who wouldn't want a player of Cech's calibre.

All just my opinion I suppose but they're all top quality players.
		
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Fair enough, like you say all opinions but IMO that's an unbelievably shielded view of world football. Either that or your standards are incredibly low!

United - Ibra is 35 and in the twilight of his once world class career. Pogba hasnt done anything deserving of the 'world class' tag (yet) and was outshone by a centre mid who got relegated from the prem last year in France Euro squad. Mkhit definitely isnt close to world class, and nor is Juan Mata. 

Liverpool - Coutinho close to being world class, but there's at least 10 others I would have rather than him @ 10. 

Spurs - Good center back pairing. Work well toghether, neither individually world class. If you're looking at world class defensive partnerships just look at the Juventus or Atletico teams - its a completely different level, the 2 you mention arent close. Likewise, if you want to pick out a single players they again wouldnt be in top 10. Kane - very close to World class? And you called me a troll?!? :rofl:

Chelsea - Again, loads more players I'd have over any of those 3. Hazard is a world class flat track bully, I'll give him that, but needs to show up more in big games and win some by himself - there's a reason nobody other than PSG have looked at him seriously in last 2 years. There are 10 better center mids in Spain alone than Matic and Costa is a very good striker but a notch down from the best. 

I specifically didnt mention keepers as that is where we do have an abundance of talent in the league - whilst the 'Top 3' is a huge overstatement I'd agree de Gea and Lloris are top 5 and the other 2 top 10. 

Stop believing all the Sky hype. You've only got to look at the recent failings of English teams in the Champs league finals to see how far the prem has fallen in recent years - 0 teams in 5 years compared to 7 in 7 before that. 

I'll stick by what I said thanks. It was no attempt to troll at all, just a neutral opinion getting sick of the Sky hype on the PL.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 19, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Didn't say you said all, but when responding to someone direct, why wouldn't they think it was directed at them?
		
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Because you can be talking generally, even though its in reply to one particular post. It actually happens a lot.:thup:


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 19, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Nobody has ever said watching it on the Telly is better than going or you get a better experience, I take it you've never watched a game not involving LPool, because if you have surely you fall in line with everything you posted when you do? 

I mentioned last night that niether the managers or players or pundits commented on the Ref and your response was as follows;

"Unlike lots on here, I dont need journalists or pundits to make up my mind for me. I rely on original thought"

Totally ignored the fact that no one from either club mentioned it, just a comment having a dig at other posters implying we can't think for ourselves and regurgitate what we hear.

Done plenty of sh1tty nights in the cold and wet watching matches, makes no difference to forming an opinion on a game on the telly.
		
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For clarity:-

A. I haven't said that one is better, just that it is a different experience watching something live (and once) than seeing it on the telly, with all the add ons. Yes I do watch other matches and comment, and as I've said never said anyone cant. 

B. Just because the managers/players haven't commented on it doesn't mean it didn't happen or they still weren't thinking it. There are fines these days for some comments. It was Man U's manager who commented on the appointment before the game, not ours. Did our players appeal for a pen on Can - No - doesn't mean that Smalling didn't have half his chest hair in his hand.

C. The match-goer is mainly the more passionate fan and it means more to them, than the armchair fan who doesn't invest as much time, money and emotion, which is why I would give a little bit more leeway to matchgoers opinions rather than the guy just posting from the sanctity of his armchair, and that's for all fans.


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## Hobbit (Oct 19, 2016)

I think TV gives you a better view of the action, and the slo-mo/repeats clarifies things better. It doesn't give atmosphere or passion, and its narrow camera view doesn't let you see some of the runs off the ball or the reading of the game a player does.

Pro's and cons from both sides but I feel that TV, especially with the close ups gives you a more honest view.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 19, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Because you can be talking generally, even though its in reply to one particular post. It actually happens a lot.:thup:
		
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:thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 19, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			For clarity:-

C. The match-goer is mainly the more passionate fan and it means more to them, than the armchair fan who doesn't invest as much time, money and emotion, which is why I would give a little bit more leeway to matchgoers opinions rather than the guy just posting from the sanctity of his armchair, and that's for all fans.
		
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Emotions get carried away by all fans regardless of being there or watching from the armchair when watching a game involving their team,
Sometimes though a neutral with no axe to grind can see things from a different perspective and make an honest assessment without the emotional involvement.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 19, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Emotions get carried away by all fans regardless of being there or watching from the armchair when watching a game involving their team,
Sometimes though a neutral with no axe to grind can see things from a different perspective and make an honest assessment without the emotional involvement.
		
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Define a neutral standpoint watching a Liverpool game (non-Europe) from a blue perspective. This could be fun......

When watching Man U I have only ever wanted to win on less than 2-3 occasions and take pleasure from seeing them getting beat. (I would expect Man U fans to do the same with us).

I now take pleasure in seeing Chelsea get beat, but not as much as the above. I'd also expect.......

I take some pleasure from seeing Everton get beat, but it does depend on how it may help/hinder us also.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2016)

I can never remember a game that I wanted Utd to win. Ever. Now that Maureen is in charge I take even more glee in their losses. Old Trafford as car park = happy days.

Chelsea, no, don't want them to win either but not on the same level as Utd. Less so now Conte is there as I like him.

Liverpool, easy come easy go. I want to finish above them but I don't lose sleep over a Liverpool win. (I grew up in Cheshire, not Liverpool which will explain some of the above)

Everyone else, doesn't bother me. This is good fun. Who do you dislike the most, ha ha.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 19, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Define a neutral standpoint watching a Liverpool game (non-Europe) from a blue perspective. This could be fun......

When watching Man U I have only ever wanted to win on less than 2-3 occasions and take pleasure from seeing them getting beat. (I would expect Man U fans to do the same with us).

I now take pleasure in seeing Chelsea get beat, but not as much as the above. I'd also expect.......

I take some pleasure from seeing Everton get beat, but it does depend on how it may help/hinder us also.
		
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So it's not possible for me to watch a game of football objectively and pass comment?

I believe I can and if you can't that's your issue not mine.

Many times on here I've been given stick for my view point on European games or defending LPool (accussed of being a closet red etc).

First and foremost I'm an Everton fan but can appreciatte good football whoever plays it.

So sorry mate, I stand by my comments that I believe the referee the other night had a very good game, others disagree fine, but my opinion has nothing to do with like or dislike of any particular team.

As mentioned, was taken to both grounds as a kid till 1977, youngest of 9, including Dad, it was 6 Blue and 4 Red, if anything I'd rather see the Mancs fail, at least that way some of the families happy.


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 19, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Define a neutral standpoint watching a Liverpool game (non-Europe) from a blue perspective. This could be fun......

When watching Man U I have only ever wanted to win on less than 2-3 occasions and take pleasure from seeing them getting beat. (I would expect Man U fans to do the same with us).

I now take pleasure in seeing Chelsea get beat, but not as much as the above. I'd also expect.......

I take some pleasure from seeing Everton get beat, but it does depend on how it may help/hinder us also.
		
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Lord Tyrion said:



			I can never remember a game that I wanted Utd to win. Ever. Now that Maureen is in charge I take even more glee in their losses. Old Trafford as car park = happy days.

Chelsea, no, don't want them to win either but not on the same level as Utd. Less so now Conte is there as I like him.

Liverpool, easy come easy go. I want to finish above them but I don't lose sleep over a Liverpool win. (I grew up in Cheshire, not Liverpool which will explain some of the above)

Everyone else, doesn't bother me. This is good fun. Who do you dislike the most, ha ha.
		
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think may have to borrow Milwall's strap line........  :rofl:


No one likes us we don't care!

Hated Adored BUT never Ignored


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Hated Adored BUT never Ignored 

Click to expand...

Who was that? I think I heard something. No, nothing


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 19, 2016)

Some finish from Sanchez in the Arsenal game. Take a bow son. Quality


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## Tashyboy (Oct 19, 2016)

Well that was an odd first 45 mins, City doin OK til Ferandinho slips. Barca looked ok but not stunning. city could of gone in 2-1 up but in the last secs coulda been 2-0 to Barca.
One things for sure, it bears watching that Rammel last night. Must be painful bein a rag and Chelsea fan at the mo &#128513;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 19, 2016)

Would like to see Aquero on, he can torment any defence.


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## Slime (Oct 19, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			One things for sure, it bears watching that Rammel last night. *Must be painful bein a rag* and Chelsea fan *at the mo* &#62977;
		
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Not a bit, why do you think that?


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## pokerjoke (Oct 19, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Well that was an odd first 45 mins, City doin OK til Ferandinho slips. Barca looked ok but not stunning. city could of gone in 2-1 up but in the last secs coulda been 2-0 to Barca.
One things for sure, it bears watching that Rammel last night. Must be painful bein a rag and Chelsea fan at the mo &#128513;
		
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Rammel is that slang for dodgy keeper.

Haha another failed C/L campaign


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 19, 2016)

Why are the commentators praising Man City's display tonight. Yes they would have still been in the game if it hadn't been for the Fernandinho slip or if Stones had scored the header but Barcelona have a midfielder who normally plays centre back playing at right back and City haven't had a go at him at all. Too many mistakes adn as I type that another mistake gifts Messi his hat trick. Shocking performance from a team that don't seem to be good enough to play the way their manager wants them to play.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 19, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Why are the commentators praising Man City's display tonight. Yes they would have still been in the game if it hadn't been for the Fernandinho slip or if Stones had scored the header but Barcelona have a midfielder who normally plays centre back playing at right back and City haven't had a go at him at all. Too many mistakes adn as I type that another mistake gifts Messi his hat trick. Shocking performance from a team that don't seem to be good enough to play the way their manager wants them to play.
		
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So based on this one performance.........


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 19, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			So based on this one performance.........

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Or the performance against Celtic. Or the performance against Spurs.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 19, 2016)

Arsenal playing some lovely football in the 2nd half.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 19, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Rammel is that slang for dodgy keeper.

Haha another failed C/L campaign
		
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Another, didn't know last years semi final was failure, are we already out. Damn it. Must of missed that one.

on a positive, er gimme half an hour.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 19, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			For clarity:-

C.* The match-goer is mainly the more passionate fan and it means more to them*, than the armchair fan who doesn't invest as much time, money and emotion, which is why I would give a little bit more leeway to matchgoers opinions rather than the guy just posting from the sanctity of his armchair, and that's for all fans.
		
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Does this match-goer meet your description of more passionate Peter?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-37703656

Brilliant!


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## Tashyboy (Oct 19, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Does this match-goer meet your description of more passionate Peter?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-37703656

Brilliant! 

Click to expand...

saw that earlier, fantastic.


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 19, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Well that was an odd first 45 mins, City doin OK til Ferandinho slips. Barca looked ok but not stunning. city could of gone in 2-1 up but in the last secs coulda been 2-0 to Barca.
One things for sure, it bears watching that Rammel last night. Must be painful bein a rag and Chelsea fan at the mo &#128513;
		
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Sooner watch the rammel and get a point that get a pasting 4-0 :rofl:


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## JCW (Oct 19, 2016)

--        Ozil ,    Just class , aiways was


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 19, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Does this match-goer meet your description of more passionate Peter?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-37703656

Brilliant! 

Click to expand...

Bloody Part timer.

At 5 years of age I'd taken the stretford end, the North Bank, Highbury, the geordies too.......... My milk crate had been all over Europe by then.

Then you'll get his mate watching the highlights on C-Beebies quoting touches in the opposition box stats, "he did get a nick on it", but only mascot-cam picked it up, and Gary Neville said that Anfield has the best sherbert lemons..........:whoo:


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## USER1999 (Oct 19, 2016)

JCW said:



--        Ozil ,    Just class , aiways was
		
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Ozil will never amount to anything.  You heard it here first.

Apart from the Hatrick, and the assists, and goals,  and the generally being world class, what has he done for Arsenal?


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## Papas1982 (Oct 19, 2016)

murphthemog said:



			Ozil will never amount to anything.  You heard it here first.

Apart from the Hatrick, and the assists, and goals,  and the generally being world class, what has he done for Arsenal?
		
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i rate ozil, but championing for the hatrick when already three up against no hopers is rather pointless IMO. 

Lets wait til April/may and see how he stands up to be counted.


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## sawtooth (Oct 20, 2016)

murphthemog said:



			Ozil will never amount to anything.  You heard it here first.

Apart from the Hatrick, and the assists, and goals,  and the generally being world class, what has he done for Arsenal?
		
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:thup:

Ozil is truly world class and has nothing to prove to anybody. 

Arsenal looking strong on all fronts and playing some wonderful stuff at the moment but I agree with many , as a team we still have a lot more to prove. We have been here before - several times! 

We need to see it out for the whole season and touch wood we get a bit of luck with injuries along the way.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



:thup:

Ozil is truly world class and has nothing to prove to anybody. 

Arsenal looking strong on all fronts and playing some wonderful stuff at the moment but I agree with many , as a team we still have a lot more to prove. We have been here before - several times! 

We need to see it out for the whole season and touch wood we get a bit of luck with injuries along the way.
		
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Not to mention Ramsey to return soon? &#128543;


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## sawtooth (Oct 20, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Not to mention Ramsey to return soon? &#63007;
		
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and Welbeck.....remember him?


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 21, 2016)

Fantastic response by the United fans to the van Persia goal last night. Great touch


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## user2010 (Oct 21, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Fantastic response by the United fans to the van Persia goal last night. Great touch
		
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Who?


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## sawtooth (Oct 21, 2016)

Van Per$ie is the correct spelling Homer.


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 21, 2016)

Van Persie the premier league champion.


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## freddielong (Oct 21, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Van Persie the premier league champion. 

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Not any more, now he is a no one.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 21, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Not any more, now he is a no one.
		
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Is that the same for Henry, Adams et all?

or just players who left you for success?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 21, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Not any more, now he is a no one.
		
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I believe he still has his medal at home 

Same with Nasri , Fabregas and indeed any player who left and went on to win trophies


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 21, 2016)

Classy as ever


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## USER1999 (Oct 21, 2016)

Van Per$ie was permanently broken while he was at arsenal, and the club stuck with him. The moment he was fit, he rewarded that loyalty by leaving. 

Also, had he stayed at arsenal that season, there is a very real chance arsenal would have won the league.

Henry is different fish, and every one knew fab wanted to return to Barca.


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## sawtooth (Oct 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I believe he still has his medal at home 

Same with Nasri , Fabregas and indeed any player who left and went on to win trophies
		
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But no legacy.

Like Owen,  is he loved and admired by Liverpool supporters? Legacy went when he signed for Utd.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 21, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			But no legacy.

Like Owen,  is he loved and admired by Liverpool supporters? Legacy went when he signed for Utd.
		
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"Legacy" ? 

Do you think it matters when he has won what he really wanted to when he left ? Do you think he would have felt fulfilled as a player by staying but winning zero titles but he did have a"legacy" 

Owen wasn't loved and admired by supporters even when he was a player 

I'm pretty sure 99% of players don't give a hoot about legacy.

Local players and players born and bred within the club will care and they will be the ones that stay throughout their career and not jump when in their prime - Gerrard , Terry , Lampard , Carra , Neville , Scholes , Rooney


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## freddielong (Oct 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I believe he still has his medal at home 

Same with Nasri , Fabregas and indeed any player who left and went on to win trophies
		
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So is he the premier league champion, no I believe he was a member of a team that WAS premier league champions but isn't currently the premier league champion.

What I meant by no one was hated at Arsenal  barely remembered one season wonder at Utd.


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## freddielong (Oct 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			"Legacy" ? 

Do you think it matters when he has won what he really wanted to when he left ? Do you think he would have felt fulfilled as a player by staying but winning zero titles but he did have a"legacy" 

Owen wasn't loved and admired by supporters even when he was a player 

I'm pretty sure 99% of players don't give a hoot about legacy.

Local players and players born and bred within the club will care and they will be the ones that stay throughout their career and not jump when in their prime - Gerrard , Terry , Lampard , Carra , Neville , Scholes , Rooney
		
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So by your standards was Gerrard a bit of a fool wasting his career at Liverpool when he could have won trophies elsewhere.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 21, 2016)

freddielong said:



			So by your standards was Gerrard a bit of a fool wasting his career at Liverpool when he could have won trophies elsewhere.
		
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Gerrard did win trophies at Liverpool - won the biggest club trophy in Europe at Liverpool  

He is missing one from his collection the title but he stated on many occasions that he only wanted to win it with Liverpool and he finished very disappointed that he didn't get to win it.


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## freddielong (Oct 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Gerrard did win trophies at Liverpool - won the biggest club trophy in Europe at Liverpool  

He is missing one from his collection the title but he stated on many occasions that he only wanted to win it with Liverpool and he finished very disappointed that he didn't get to win it.
		
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But he won that in 2005 was it, when did he retire?  if legacy doesn't matter and what the fans think doesn't matter its only medal count, should he have moved?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 21, 2016)

freddielong said:



			But he won that in 2005 was it, when did he retire?  if legacy doesn't matter and what the fans think doesn't matter its only medal count, should he have moved?
		
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Gerrard grew up a Liverpool fan , he was born and bred in the city and was Liverpool through and through - his life and situation is different from someone who was bought in from abroad and had no initial connection to the club 

What does it matter when he won it - he won it , he has the medal 

As my post clearly says -legacy will not matter to 99% of the players 

The ones that will care will be the local ones as mentioned in my post  - and you decide to counter the point with one of those local players ?!


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## NWJocko (Oct 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Owen wasn't loved and admired by supporters even when he was a player 

I'm pretty sure 99% of players don't give a hoot about legacy.
		
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Completely agree with you about "legacy"!

Re Owen, I always find it interesting he was never really adopted by the supporters there as much as others, why was that?  I played a lot against/with him when I was younger as we're the same age and he really was seen as the golden child both with club and country, got the impression they'd throw rose petals at his feet when he was going anywhere if he asked.....  I obviously don't know enough about Liverpool to know why, thought it was odd though.

Not a criticism, just something I've always wondered really as he wasn't held in the same regard as Gerrard etc even before he left.


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## Kellfire (Oct 21, 2016)

freddielong said:



			barely remembered one season wonder at Utd.
		
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Van Persie was by no means a one season wonder at United. He kept scoring goals in a weakened Man Utd team into his second and third season, though undoubtedly his first season was his best.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 21, 2016)

NWJocko said:



			Completely agree with you about "legacy"!

Re Owen, I always find it interesting he was never really adopted by the supporters there as much as others, why was that?  I played a lot against/with him when I was younger as we're the same age and he really was seen as the golden child both with club and country, got the impression they'd throw rose petals at his feet when he was going anywhere if he asked.....  I obviously don't know enough about Liverpool to know why, thought it was odd though.

Not a criticism, just something I've always wondered really as he wasn't held in the same regard as Gerrard etc even before he left.
		
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For me it just seemed that he never put the club first - he always seemed to get fit just in time for international duty but then go missing. It was clear that England was a priority for him. For some it felt like we were just a stepping stone for him


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## freddielong (Oct 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Gerrard grew up a Liverpool fan , he was born and bred in the city and was Liverpool through and through - his life and situation is different from someone who was bought in from abroad and had no initial connection to the club 

What does it matter when he won it - he won it , he has the medal 

As my post clearly says -legacy will not matter to 99% of the players 

The ones that will care will be the local ones as mentioned in my post  - and you decide to counter the point with one of those local players ?!
		
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As usually you have an exception /get out clause for Liverpool, pathetic.


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 21, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Van Per$ie is the correct spelling Homer
		
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The same opinion of Sol Campbell?


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## NWJocko (Oct 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			For me it just seemed that he never put the club first - he always seemed to get fit just in time for international duty but then go missing. It was clear that England was a priority for him. For some it felt like we were just a stepping stone for him
		
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Makes sense, cheers for that just something I've always wondered about.  :thup:


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 21, 2016)

freddielong said:



			As usually you have an exception /get out clause for *everything*.
		
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Changed that for you matey


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 21, 2016)

freddielong said:



			As usually you have an exception /get out clause for Liverpool, pathetic.
		
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I think you need to read the initial post that you countered and quite clearly notice that I didn't just mention Liverpool players and already mentioned Gerrard as well as other teams players

Look it's not my fault players leave Arsenal to look for success and feel zero connection to the club


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## Kellfire (Oct 21, 2016)

Van Persie stays with Arsenal for years, no sign of a league title.

Leaves Arsenal, wins league the next year, scoring many vital goals in that success.

How can anyone argue that isn't the right thing he did?

Oh the big, bad Dutch man felt no great love for the London team, managed by a Frenchman...


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## Papas1982 (Oct 21, 2016)

freddielong said:



			So is he the premier league champion, no I believe he was a member of a team that WAS premier league champions but isn't currently the premier league champion.

What I meant by no one was hated at Arsenal  barely remembered one season wonder at Utd.
		
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Pretty sure the ovation he got last year shows he's remembered.


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## USER1999 (Oct 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think you need to read the initial post that you countered and quite clearly notice that I didn't just mention Liverpool players and already mentioned Gerrard as well as other teams players

Look it's not my fault players leave Arsenal to look for success and feel zero connection to the club
		
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I think you will find Henry feels very connected to Arsenal still, Fabregas too, but to a lesser extend.


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 21, 2016)

murphthemog said:



			I think you will find *Henry feels very connected *to Arsenal still, Fabregas too, but to a lesser extend.
		
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even though he got booted out of coaching the younger sides because of his Sky contract?


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Local players and players born and bred within the club will care and they will be the ones that stay throughout their career and not jump when in their prime - Gerrard , Terry , Lampard , Carra , Neville , Scholes , Rooney
		
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I just need to check this. Were you drinking when you added Rooney to this list? Why would you add Rooney to a list of players that stayed loyal to a club and didn't look to jump. Rooney moved through the Everton junior system and then jumped to Utd, anyone but Utd blimey. Every few years at Utd he threatens to leave until his contract is bumped up. Clear as you like, more money or I go. Rooney will retire and no fans will love him in the way they love the other players on your list. Incidentally, throw Alan Shearer into that mix. Ask him if he would swap titles with Utd for the years and adoration from his home support? He wouldn't blink in answering no. He is still worshipped for that loyalty, Rooney will not have that.

As a pro you make that choice, if you are lucky. It's a short career and it is up to each individual. 10-20-30 years after you are finished it must be pretty nice though, going back to your old club and having people happy to see you still. That has to be worth something more than just rattling around in your mansion counting your money.


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## sawtooth (Oct 21, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			The same opinion of Sol Campbell?
		
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No why?!  did he leave us in the lurch for more cash?


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## sawtooth (Oct 21, 2016)

freddielong said:



			As usually you have an exception /get out clause for Liverpool, pathetic.
		
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Yeah looks like Gerrard wasted his last 6-7 years of his best years at Liverpool.

He should have left to further his career? Is that what Liverpool supporters would have wanted? Not sure that it would have been.


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## Kellfire (Oct 21, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			No why?!  did he leave us in the lurch for more cash?
		
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Are you joking with this response?


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## freddielong (Oct 21, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			even though he got booted out of coaching the younger sides because of his Sky contract?
		
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It wasn't felt that he could honestly express an opinion on a Saturday and then come in on a Monday and train the same players it was Henry's choice in the end.


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## sawtooth (Oct 21, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Van Persie stays with Arsenal for years, no sign of a league title.

Leaves Arsenal, wins league the next year, scoring many vital goals in that success.

How can anyone argue that isn't the right thing he did?

Oh the big, bad Dutch man felt no great love for the London team, managed by a Frenchman...
		
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It's not just leaving , it's the manner of leaving and what he said to press since leaving that sticks in the throat.

Fabregas and Henry left too but they left in a very different manner and have not been disrespectful to either Arsenal or Wenger.


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## sawtooth (Oct 21, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Are you joking with this response? 

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No , are you denying that he left for a large signing on fee and much improved weekly wage?

Are you joking with your response?

Naive if you buy - I am leaving for trophies or for honours rubbish. Cold hard cash for an aging striker with one last payday is closer to the mark.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 21, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah looks like Gerrard wasted his last 6-7 years of his best years at Liverpool.

He should have left to further his career? Is that what Liverpool supporters would have wanted? Not sure that it would have been.
		
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Im pretty sure even you can clearly see the difference between someone like Gerrard and someone like Van Persie

Van Persie had no deep routed connection to Arsenal so had no problems leaving to allow him to wins the major trophies 

Gerrard won major trophies at Liverpool and yes he could have left to another club to win the league but he said it wouldn't have felt the same winning it with Chelsea for example 

You will always believe Van Persie left for money - you will dismiss the idea that he wanted to win trophies and it wasn't ( and still doesn't ) happening at Arsenal - he took a chance to win a title and it paid if for him.


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## Kellfire (Oct 21, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			No , are you denying that he left for a large signing on fee and much improved weekly wage?

Are you joking with your response?

Naive if you buy - I am leaving for trophies or for honours rubbish. Cold hard cash for an aging striker with one last payday is closer to the mark.
		
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At his stage in life he wanted for nothing. He had a cushy life in the capital city and money was certainly no issue for him.

I believe he wanted one last shot at a league and potentially Champions League title under the best manager the league has ever seen.


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 21, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			No , are you denying that he left for a large signing on fee and much improved weekly wage?

Are you joking with your response?

Naive if you buy - I am leaving for trophies or for honours rubbish. Cold hard cash for an aging striker with one last payday is closer to the mark.
		
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Same for Campbell amazing how it's different when the boots on the other foot.....

Also why is it footballers are supposed to stay loyal to the club and turn down a better job and more money? You work your apperenticeship become skilled the stay for the rest of your working life out of loyalty and turn down better paid jobs out of loyalty..... Real world!


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## freddielong (Oct 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What does it matter when he won it - he won it , he has the medal 
?!
		
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How many times have you banged on about timescale for someone else or is it just because you know Arsene doesn't keep his medals.

You are a hypocrite


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 21, 2016)

freddielong said:



			How many times have you banged on about timescale for someone else or is it just because you know Arsene doesn't keep his medals.

You are a hypocrite
		
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Who is talking about Wenger ? I have no idea if Wenger keeps his medals or not - it's not relevant to the discussion. 

I'm pretty sure you can tell the difference between players gaining honours and clubs gaining honours


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 21, 2016)

NWJocko said:



			Completely agree with you about "legacy"!

Re Owen, I always find it interesting he was never really adopted by the supporters there as much as others, why was that?  I played a lot against/with him when I was younger as we're the same age and he really was seen as the golden child both with club and country, got the impression they'd throw rose petals at his feet when he was going anywhere if he asked.....  I obviously don't know enough about Liverpool to know why, thought it was odd though.

Not a criticism, just something I've always wondered really as he wasn't held in the same regard as Gerrard etc even before he left.
		
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A good comparison is Robbie Fowler, Iain, and for many scouse reds they were seen as follows:-


Fowler 

1.<script id="gpt-impl-0.41552671498338095" src="http://partner.googleadservices.com/gpt/pubads_impl_103.js"></script> Scouser from Toxteth (he went to my old junior school)
2. He was "ours" first and foremost.
3. He was a scorer of great goals as well as tap ins.
4. He was a jack the lad, and had a cheeky wit.
5. He was often seen around the town, going to his old school, supported the dockers strike, and lived in the city.

Owen.

1. He was a "wool".
2. After the goal against Argentina he was the England poster boy, and belonged to the world.
3. He was a scorer of some great goals, but more of a speed merchant/sniffer.
4. He was the clean cut, boy next door, but who also exploited a massive PR and advertising income.
5. Outside of training and playing, didn't see him around much.

None are necessarily criticisms, but how many reasons why me, mates and other lads I knew loved "God" a lot more than Michael. One left when we needed him, one left as he was not the player he previously was (Fowler), but he took it in good grace.


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## sawtooth (Oct 21, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			A good comparison is Robbie Fowler, Iain, and for many scouse reds they were seen as follows:-


Fowler 

1.<script id="gpt-impl-0.41552671498338095" src="http://partner.googleadservices.com/gpt/pubads_impl_103.js"></script> Scouser from Toxteth (he went to my old junior school)
2. He was "ours" first and foremost.
3. He was a scorer of great goals as well as tap ins.
4. He was a jack the lad, and had a cheeky wit.
5. He was often seen around the town, going to his old school, supported the dockers strike, and lived in the city.

Owen.

1. He was a "wool".
2. After the goal against Argentina he was the England poster boy, and belonged to the world.
3. He was a scorer of some great goals, but more of a speed merchant/sniffer.
4. He was the clean cut, boy next door, but who also exploited a massive PR and advertising income.
5. Outside of training and playing, didn't see him around much.

None are necessarily criticisms, but how many reasons why me, mates and other lads I knew loved "God" a lot more than Michael. One left when we needed him, one left as he was not the player he previously was (Fowler), but he took it in good grace.
		
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Forget all the rest this line tells me all so need to know.


Michael. One left when we needed him, .......and he went to Utd

No difference to RVP , had he had stayed Owen would be on the same pedestal as Fowler no doubt about it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 21, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Forget all the rest this line tells me all so need to know.


Michael. One left when we needed him, .......and he went to Utd

No difference to RVP , had he had stayed Owen would be on the same pedestal as Fowler no doubt about it.
		
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Owen wouldn't have been on the same pedestal - he wasn't when he was a Liverpool player and he wouldn't have been if he stayed. Pete explained why Owen was seen differently and it appears you decided to ignore that 

He also didn't go direct to Utd - went via Newcastle and Madrid - he wanted to come back to us from Madrid and Newcastle and we didn't want him and majority of the fans weren't bothered


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## NWJocko (Oct 21, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			A good comparison is Robbie Fowler, Iain, and for many scouse reds they were seen as follows:-


Fowler 

1.<script id="gpt-impl-0.41552671498338095" src="http://partner.googleadservices.com/gpt/pubads_impl_103.js"></script> Scouser from Toxteth (he went to my old junior school)
2. He was "ours" first and foremost.
3. He was a scorer of great goals as well as tap ins.
4. He was a jack the lad, and had a cheeky wit.
5. He was often seen around the town, going to his old school, supported the dockers strike, and lived in the city.

Owen.

1. He was a "wool".
2. After the goal against Argentina he was the England poster boy, and belonged to the world.
3. He was a scorer of some great goals, but more of a speed merchant/sniffer.
4. He was the clean cut, boy next door, but who also exploited a massive PR and advertising income.
5. Outside of training and playing, didn't see him around much.

None are necessarily criticisms, but how many reasons why me, mates and other lads I knew loved "God" a lot more than Michael. One left when we needed him, one left as he was not the player he previously was (Fowler), but he took it in good grace.
		
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Cheers Pedro. :thup:

Interesting comparison as Owen was very much "groomed for stardom" as the modern footaller so probably does become more distant whereas Fowler was a bit more old school.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 21, 2016)

I'll throw into this as a neutral, Everton fan, with lots of Liverpool relations. Owen was never held in affection in the way that Fowler was. Owen just isn't a warm character. He was robotic in his interviews, too clinical in his answers, no feeling. Fowler (Gerrard, Carragher etc) all answered with passion and all related to Liverpool being central to everything. Owen left when it suited his career, clinical. He didn't wait to stick things out, he saw a chance to move and he took it. Fans don't like or want that. Fowler was sold on, he didn't want to leave the club. Huge difference.

I doubt you will find Owen is held in affection by any club fans, ask a Newcastle fan about Owen but stand well clear. Just not that type of person.


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## freddielong (Oct 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who is talking about Wenger ? I have no idea if Wenger keeps his medals or not - it's not relevant to the discussion. 

I'm pretty sure you can tell the difference between players gaining honours and clubs gaining honours
		
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You have to judge everyone by the same standards you have repeatedly banged on about Wenger being rubbish and passed it for not winning the title in 10 years but when a Liverpool player was involved as long as he has won it once the sun shines out his ring all all will  be forgiven.

Hypocrite


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 21, 2016)

freddielong said:



			You have to judge everyone by the same standards you have repeatedly banged on about Wenger being rubbish and passed it for not winning the title in 10 years but when a Liverpool player was involved as long as he has won it once the sun shines out his ring all all will  be forgiven.

Hypocrite
		
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What ?

You do realise one is a manager and one is a player ? 

One sets up the teams and is responsible for the way the team plays and how successful they are - the other plays the way the manager wants

What is this all is forgiven business - why do I need to forgive Gerrard ? He gave his all for the club and won us some great trophies and we had some great times with him as a player - when we didn't succeed as we should in his time the manager was sacked 

Not once have a said Wenger is rubbish - right now I believe he is very lucky that despite not winning a major trophy for a big club in over a decade he is still in the job and believe he is the manager that is stopping Arsenal winning big trophies 

How on any planet can you compare a manager to a player ? Do you even think before ranting away


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## sawtooth (Oct 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What ?

You do realise one is a manager and one is a player ? 

One sets up the teams and is responsible for the way the team plays and how successful they are - the other plays the way the manager wants

What is this all is forgiven business - why do I need to forgive Gerrard ? He gave his all for the club and won us some great trophies and we had some great times with him as a player - when we didn't succeed as we should in his time the manager was sacked 

Not once have a said Wenger is rubbish - right now I believe he is very lucky that despite not winning a major trophy for a big club in over a decade he is still in the job and believe he is the manager that is stopping Arsenal winning big trophies 

How on any planet can you compare a manager to a player ? Do you even think before ranting away
		
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Lucky?

You really don't have a clue mate......or you are trolling.

The club are enormously lucky to have had Wenger. He has helped to pay off the stadium with his success and consistency as a manager for over a decade.

The lucky manager they are desperate to keep.


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## freddielong (Oct 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What ?

You do realise one is a manager and one is a player ? 

One sets up the teams and is responsible for the way the team plays and how successful they are - the other plays the way the manager wants

What is this all is forgiven business - why do I need to forgive Gerrard ? He gave his all for the club and won us some great trophies and we had some great times with him as a player - when we didn't succeed as we should in his time the manager was sacked 

Not once have a said Wenger is rubbish - right now I believe he is very lucky that despite not winning a major trophy for a big club in over a decade he is still in the job and believe he is the manager that is stopping Arsenal winning big trophies 

How on any planet can you compare a manager to a player ? Do you even think before ranting away
		
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So you cannot compare two human beings in similar  professions playing for the same honours to see if they are successful or not?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 21, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Lucky?

You really don't have a clue mate......or you are trolling.

The club are enormously lucky to have had Wenger. He has helped to pay off the stadium with his success and consistency as a manager for over a decade.

The lucky manager they are desperate to keep.
		
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Ok couple of questions to determine something 

1. How many league titles has Wenger won in the past decade?

2. How many CL has Wenger won ?

3 How many managers have been sacked over the past ten years despite winning leagues and CL ? 

What determines the success of a club - trophies they win or how much money they have or what stadium they have ?

What does a fan celebrate - winning a big trophy or a stadium being built

What do players celebrate - winning a medal or a new stand being built ?

How the hell am I troll because I believe Wenger is holding back Arsenal ? Maybe that's just down to your low expectations of your club


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## freddielong (Oct 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ok couple of questions to determine something 

1. How many league titles has Wenger won in the past decade?

2. How many CL has Wenger won ?

3 How many managers have been sacked over the past ten years despite winning leagues and CL ? 

What determines the success of a club - trophies they win or how much money they have or what stadium they have ?

What does a fan celebrate - winning a big trophy or a stadium being built

What do players celebrate - winning a medal or a new stand being built ?
		
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You can only be judged against the parameters you are  set.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 21, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Forget all the rest this line tells me all so need to know.


Michael. One left when we needed him, .......and he went to Utd

No difference to RVP , had he had stayed Owen would be on the same pedestal as Fowler no doubt about it.
		
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Not really, if you know your football. He went to Real Madrid, then Newcastle before United.

The list was based on when him and Fowler where both there, and not a retrospective look.

Maybe next time, read it properly.:thup:


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 21, 2016)

NWJocko said:



			Cheers Pedro. :thup:

Interesting comparison as Owen was very much "groomed for stardom" as the modern footaller so probably does become more distant whereas Fowler was a bit more old school.
		
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Zackly!!!!!! and owen, was a wool. :whoo:


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 21, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'll throw into this as a neutral, Everton fan, with lots of Liverpool relations. Owen was never held in affection in the way that Fowler was. Owen just isn't a warm character. He was robotic in his interviews, too clinical in his answers, no feeling. Fowler (Gerrard, Carragher etc) all answered with passion and all related to Liverpool being central to everything. Owen left when it suited his career, clinical. He didn't wait to stick things out, he saw a chance to move and he took it. Fans don't like or want that. Fowler was sold on, he didn't want to leave the club. Huge difference.

I doubt you will find Owen is held in affection by any club fans, ask a Newcastle fan about Owen but stand well clear. Just not that type of person.
		
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Zackly (2)!!!!

As I say, the explanation wasn't based on how they both left, more from how we felt about both when still there.

Honest to God, lar.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 21, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'll throw into this as a neutral, Everton fan, with lots of Liverpool relations. Owen was never held in affection in the way that Fowler was. Owen just isn't a warm character. He was robotic in his interviews, too clinical in his answers, no feeling. Fowler (Gerrard, Carragher etc) all answered with passion and all related to Liverpool being central to everything. Owen left when it suited his career, clinical. He didn't wait to stick things out, he saw a chance to move and he took it. Fans don't like or want that. Fowler was sold on, he didn't want to leave the club. Huge difference.

I doubt you will find Owen is held in affection by any club fans, ask a Newcastle fan about Owen but stand well clear. Just not that type of person.
		
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Come on mate when a striker is banging in goals for Liverpool he was idolised by thousands,i believe he is disliked because he went to Utd simples.

I believe English clubs are missing a trick with their top players like Giggs,Gerrard,Carragher,Neville,scholes,Lampard I could go on,and by the way I'm not saying all would or wanted too but they could have become good managers whilst in their final years.
They needed to be groomed like players are abroad.

If Liverpool felt about Gerrard the way he felt about Liverpool he should still be there now,no doubt he will be in the future in some role but imo he should be there now,the same as Giggs at UTD.


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## Kellfire (Oct 21, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			the same as Giggs at UTD.
		
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And look how that's not working. Time for him to go and learn the world of football elsewhere in my opinion.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 21, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			And look how that's not working. Time for him to go and learn the world of football elsewhere in my opinion.
		
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This is exactly my point we missed a trick,imo Fergie could have mentored him for 3 years and helped him become a great manager.

Look at ex players managing abroad and big clubs at that with no previous managerial experience.


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## sawtooth (Oct 21, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Not really, if you know your football. He went to Real Madrid, then Newcastle before United.

The list was based on when him and Fowler where both there, and not a retrospective look.

Maybe next time, read it properly.:thup:
		
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So you say, I think Owen going to Utd albeit indirectly has influenced your opinion.

You love Coutinho now right? If he left to go to Man Utd next year for more money you are trying to tell me that you'll look back fondly at his liverpool years? Or you would still love him post Liverpool?

Yeah right.


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## richy (Oct 21, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			So you say, I think Owen going to Utd albeit indirectly has influenced your opinion.

You love Coutinho now right? If he left to go to Man Utd next year for more money you are trying to tell me that you'll look back fondly at his liverpool years? Or you would still love him post Liverpool?

Yeah right.
		
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Why can't you grasp the fact that owen didn't go directly to man Utd?

If coutinho went to man Utd next year that would be completely different.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 21, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			So you say, I think Owen going to Utd albeit indirectly has influenced your opinion.

You love Coutinho now right? If he left to go to Man Utd next year for more money you are trying to tell me that you'll look back fondly at his liverpool years? Or you would still love him post Liverpool?

Yeah right.
		
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Believe me or not, yes, I agree that Owen has been cast off in the main by Liverpool fans since, I dont disagree.

As Jocko asked why wasnt he loved as much, I truly answered (and used Robbie Fowler) as a very good example.

It was an honest assessment from the eyes of lots of scousers of the red persuasion of the time, and also noticed by lots of neutrals as to why Fowler was loved more than Owen. If you take Fowler's stock as 10, Owen at his peak would still have been only a 7 or an 8, and I agree since then it is down to about 2-3.

If you dont believe me check out the reception he received in a Newcastle shirt (pre-Man U) with songs like "where were you in Istanbul", as he chose to leave the year before, and 8 months leater we won it. I actually clapped him and didnt sing that song, as from a generation that applauded ex-players. He was probably on a 4 -5 then.

Signing for Man U will obviously take that down to a 2, at best.

If coutinho went there directly it would be even worse, correct.

Is it really worth bothering to answer?


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## sawtooth (Oct 21, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Believe me or not, yes, I agree that Owen has been cast off in the main by Liverpool fans since, I dont disagree.

As Jocko asked why wasnt he loved as much, I truly answered (and used Robbie Fowler) as a very good example.

It was an honest assessment from the eyes of lots of scousers of the red persuasion of the time, and also noticed by lots of neutrals as to why Fowler was loved more than Owen. If you take Fowler's stock as 10, Owen at his peak would still have been only a 7 or an 8, and I agree since then it is down to about 2-3.

If you dont believe me check out the reception he received in a Newcastle shirt (pre-Man U) with songs like "where were you in Istanbul", as he chose to leave the year before, and 8 months leater we won it. I actually clapped him and didnt sing that song, as from a generation that applauded ex-players. He was probably on a 4 -5 then.

Signing for Man U will obviously take that down to a 2, at best.

If coutinho went there directly it would be even worse, correct.

Is it really worth bothering to answer?
		
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On your closing question,  no it isn't you're right.

Wenger staying on for another two years? Now that is something worth discussing.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 21, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			On your closing question,  no it isn't you're right.

Wenger staying on for another two years? Now that is something worth discussing. 

Click to expand...

That's good as its one less club for the title,however the books look ok:thup:


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## sawtooth (Oct 21, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			That's good as its one less club for the title,however the books look ok:thup:
		
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Arsenal could win the league this season could they not?


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## Fish (Oct 21, 2016)

I haven't looked in here for a while, glanced at the last few posts and......seriously, are we still going on like an old 78 about the same old guff :mmm:


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## pokerjoke (Oct 22, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Arsenal could win the league this season could they not?
		
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Of course in theory they could but history tells us they wont.

Good to see Jack Wiltshire complete the full 90 minutes today for the first time in two years and was actually still working hard at the end.

Could it be down to Arsenal and their training:ears:


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## sawtooth (Oct 22, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Of course in theory they could but history tells us they wont.

Good to see Jack Wiltshire complete the full 90 minutes today for the first time in two years and was actually still working hard at the end.

Could it be down to Arsenal and their training:ears:
		
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It could be but Bournemouth should take some credit too. ;-)

Arsenal top of the league!!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 22, 2016)

Lucky point last week to robbed this week! Totally dominated the game and 2 stupid goals conceded, Steklenburg at fault for the first and bad defending for the last minute winner, could and should of had 3 or 4.


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## Hobbit (Oct 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Lucky point last week to robbed this week! Totally dominated the game and 2 stupid goals conceded, Steklenburg at fault for the first and bad defending for the last minute winner, could and should of had 3 or 4.
		
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The coulda shoulda woulda seen Boro 2-0 up at half time, and drawing 3-3


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 22, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			The coulda shoulda woulda seen Boro 2-0 up at half time, and drawing 3-3
		
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You should be happy with a point&#128515;


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## pokerjoke (Oct 22, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			The coulda shoulda woulda seen Boro 2-0 up at half time, and drawing 3-3
		
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Cant be bothered to google Bri but this Traore looks a signing


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## pokerjoke (Oct 22, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			It could be but Bournemouth should take some credit too. ;-)

Arsenal top of the league!!
		
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Bottled it Sean

Watched the whole game and tried to walk the ball in and could easily have lost also.
Anyway life goes on,now for an Albion point.


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## Fish (Oct 22, 2016)

I don't like to use the word, so I won't, but what the hell is there to like about Garth Crooks!

Oh, and no talking footy at the curry house or in earshot of Herr Leader  :rofl:


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## Fish (Oct 22, 2016)

:rofl:


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## Hobbit (Oct 22, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Cant be bothered to google Bri but this Traore looks a signing
		
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Certainly looks decent, as do a few of the new signings. The big, massive disappointment is Negrado. I've seen more pace in a snail race!


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## sawtooth (Oct 22, 2016)

Fish said:



View attachment 21061


:rofl:
		
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Welcome back Fish you must think Chelsea's season is back on again. &#128513;


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## Fish (Oct 22, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Welcome back Fish you must think Chelsea's season is back on again. &#128513;
		
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I thought I'd get a few in early before spending 4 hours with you on Monday :ears:


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## sawtooth (Oct 22, 2016)

Fish said:



			I thought I'd get a few in early before spending 4 hours with you on Monday :ears:
		
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OMG I so need Utd to take something off your lot tomorrow else I am throwing a sickie Monday.

Coutinho is quality , way too good for Liverpool. &#128567;


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 22, 2016)

That will do - should have put them way out of sight but some great saves from Foster. 

I'm just wondering if Hoddle has seen the scores this year - seemed to me he kept going on about Liverpool having to show they can play this way against teams like Arsenal and Chelsea ?! I wonder if he knows we have already played them once this season already


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 22, 2016)

Good win but perhaps slightly under the cosh in the last ten minutes as WBA looked to equalise. Some easier looking fixtures coming up so they could be top soon. Whether they stay there is another conversation


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## davemc1 (Oct 23, 2016)

Some stunning football from the reds yesterday, twas a pleasure to watch. 

We've been known to slip up when results go in our favour, Klopp is a different animal tho, hugely impressed by him.


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## Fish (Oct 23, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Some stunning football from the reds yesterday, twas a pleasure to watch. 

We've been known to slip up when results go in our favour, Klopp is a different animal tho, hugely impressed by him.
		
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I thought you were hanging on slightly at the end, you need to put teams away when you can, so on that evidence, do you have the stamina for a long season?


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## Hobbit (Oct 23, 2016)

Fish said:



			I thought you were hanging on slightly at the end, you need to put teams away when you can, so on that evidence, do you have the stamina for a long season?
		
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They'll be like a blown horse by Feb. That intensity on heavy pitches will see an injury list akin to Arsenal's usual mid season.


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## davemc1 (Oct 23, 2016)

Fish said:



			I thought you were hanging on slightly at the end, you need to put teams away when you can, so on that evidence, do you have the stamina for a long season?
		
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There is absolutely no reason why not. All the talk of running out of steam is rubbish. Wasn't the old saying in football, you work harder without the ball? I'm guessing we've had most possession in most of our games. Also, We'll prob play 10 games less than most. 

I agree we should have buried them yesterday, but it's not easy to score 4 every week. I thought after they scored and came out more, we where the only team to create the chances.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 23, 2016)

Bit of hanging on towards the end. But a great point!


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## Fish (Oct 23, 2016)

&#128526; get in &#128077;&#128079;


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## Fish (Oct 23, 2016)

Were all over them like a rash &#128526;&#128077;&#128079;&#128540;


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## Fish (Oct 23, 2016)

And that's the 3rd goal we needed to kill it off, and even Jose sarcastically clapped it &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;

Sean, your mine all mine tomorrow &#128077;


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## ger147 (Oct 23, 2016)

Are Chelsea about to declare and have a bowl?


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## sawtooth (Oct 23, 2016)

Fish said:



			And that's the 3rd goal we needed to kill it off, and even Jose sarcastically clapped it &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;

Sean, your mine all mine tomorrow &#128077;
		
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Still above you mate so it won't be that bad thinking about it. 

Utd ? Dear oh dear what a shower today.

I still believe though that they will come good and finish top 4. I know that they are getting thrashed here but it's not really a game that they would have expected to win.


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## Fish (Oct 23, 2016)

&#128077;&#128514;&#128079;&#127866; need a quick lie down now before tonight &#129300;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 23, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Still above you mate so it won't be that bad thinking about it. 

Utd ? Dear oh dear what a shower today.

I still believe though that they will come good and finish top 4. I know that they are getting thrashed here but it's not really a game that they would have expected to win.
		
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For Utd to finish Top 4 who do you see dropping back? I reckon the top 5 now are the only real challengers for the title.


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## sawtooth (Oct 23, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			For Utd to finish Top 4 who do you see dropping back? I reckon the top 5 now are the only real challengers for the title.
		
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Chelsea and Liverpool to make way for Spurs and Utd.

Long way to go yet.


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## sawtooth (Oct 23, 2016)

Great point for Soton today.

I like the look of Puel he is looking the real deal. He obviously learnt a lot from Wenger when they were at Monaco together. ;-)


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 23, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Chelsea and Liverpool to make way for Spurs and Utd.

Long way to go yet.
		
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Very long way, but can't see both Chelsea and LPool slipping back, Spurs will be in the mix.


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## Slime (Oct 23, 2016)

Well, that was the strangest 4-0 I've ever seen!

Oh, and Luiz is a horrid thug ................ great hair though!


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 23, 2016)

Slime said:



			Oh, and Luiz is a horrid thug ................ great hair though!
		
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He was the last time he played for them. Nothing has changed. Very poor United and Mourinho has a very hard job to turn that shambles around to get top four and it won't happen this season. I can see lots of comings and goings in January but they looked disjointed and the system they played, certainly today, didn't seem to work


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## Golfmmad (Oct 23, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I just need to check this. Were you drinking when you added Rooney to this list? Why would you add Rooney to a list of players that stayed loyal to a club and didn't look to jump. Rooney moved through the Everton junior system and then jumped to Utd, anyone but Utd blimey. Every few years at Utd he threatens to leave until his contract is bumped up. Clear as you like, more money or I go. Rooney will retire and no fans will love him in the way they love the other players on your list. Incidentally, throw Alan Shearer into that mix. Ask him if he would swap titles with Utd for the years and adoration from his home support? He wouldn't blink in answering no. He is still worshipped for that loyalty, Rooney will not have that.

As a pro you make that choice, if you are lucky. It's a short career and it is up to each individual. 10-20-30 years after you are finished it must be pretty nice though, going back to your old club and having people happy to see you still. That has to be worth something more than just rattling around in your mansion counting your money.
		
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Are you sure about that statement? "Every few years at Utd he threatens to leave until his contract is bumped up".

As I understood it, it was a time at United when Rooney thought more players were needed to be brought in. At a meeting with Alex Ferguson he was assured that would happen, and of course his agent negotiated more money for Rooney - and for himself of course. It was one occasion, not every few years as you mentioned.

Where is Rooney now? Still at United and still playing for England with no talk of retiring from International football.

To me that is loyalty.


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## Slime (Oct 23, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			He was the last time he played for them. Nothing has changed. Very poor United and Mourinho has a very hard job to turn that shambles around to get top four and it won't happen this season. I can see lots of comings and goings in January but they looked disjointed and the system they played, certainly today, didn't seem to work
		
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But they had more possession, more shots, more corners, more passes, higher % pass success, more touches in opposition penalty area .......................... 4-0 is just weird.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 23, 2016)

Slime said:



			But they had more possession, more shots, more corners, more passes, higher % pass success, more touches in opposition penalty area .......................... 4-0 is just weird.
		
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I agree if you look at the stats, 4-0 looks just plain wrong. However I think Chelsea clearly led them on and Conte had his tactics spot on. I really don't see anything in the United side this season that makes me think Mourinho can get them into the top four


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## sawtooth (Oct 23, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I agree if you look at the stats, 4-0 looks just plain wrong. However I think Chelsea clearly led them on and Conte had his tactics spot on. I really don't see anything in the United side this season that makes me think Mourinho can get them into the top four
		
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It can change again next week, Utd can beat Burnley at home at the teams above Utd can all lose given the fixtures.

Mourinho will sort things out eventually I am confident of that.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 23, 2016)

Golfmmad said:



			Are you sure about that statement? "Every few years at Utd he threatens to leave until his contract is bumped up".

As I understood it, it was a time at United when Rooney thought more players were needed to be brought in. At a meeting with Alex Ferguson he was assured that would happen, and of course his agent negotiated more money for Rooney - and for himself of course. It was one occasion, not every few years as you mentioned.

Where is Rooney now? Still at United and still playing for England with no talk of retiring from International football.

To me that is loyalty.
		
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   :rofl:


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## Papas1982 (Oct 23, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



View attachment 21073
   :rofl:
		
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Spot on. I feel the stick Rooney gets is often misplaced and in a few years England may well realise what has gone. But loyalty isn't something I'd attribute to him at all.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 24, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			For Utd to finish Top 4 who do you see dropping back? I reckon the top 5 now are the only real challengers for the title.
		
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I see you've not mentioned your defeat to burnley, is everything OK?:smirk:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 24, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I see you've not mentioned your defeat to burnley, is everything OK?:smirk:
		
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Have you had a beer soft lad, mentioned it 2 minutes after the game finished if you want to check back :whoo:
Unlike you lot who took 2 days :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Oct 24, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Have you had a beer soft lad, mentioned it 2 minutes after the game finished if you want to check back :whoo:
Unlike you lot who took 2 days :rofl:
		
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Only a couple like, just glad you've not forgotten, though to say ou were robbed is poor form.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 24, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Only a couple like, just glad you've not forgotten, though to say ou were robbed is poor form.
		
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:rofl:


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## freddielong (Oct 24, 2016)

Maureen tryng to deflect from a terrible performance with all that Conte trying to humiliate him rubbish, no Maureen your team did that not Conte.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 24, 2016)

Did they forget the bus


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## Kellfire (Oct 24, 2016)

Rumours that Bailly could be out for a long spell. We already needed one CB in January, as that embarrassing showing from Chris Smalling proved (I made him at fault for every goal to some degree) but now we may need two... Yikes.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 24, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Rumours that Bailly could be out for a long spell. We already needed one CB in January, as that embarrassing showing from Chris Smalling proved (I made him at fault for every goal to some degree) but now we may need two... Yikes.
		
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Without stating the obvious, you need more than a couple of centre backs to sort out that shower at the moment.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 24, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Maureen tryng to deflect from a terrible performance with all that Conte trying to humiliate him rubbish, no Maureen your team did that not Conte.
		
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Was thinking earlier on how managers such as Klopp, Conte, Pep, Koeman, Billic, Wenger, Howe, the guy at saints and prob a few others have given there teams an identity playing good football. Not for one min did I think about putting Maureen in that bracket along with Moyes and Van Gaul, so what's goin off at Utd coz it's just not happening. &#128513;


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## Kellfire (Oct 24, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Without stating the obvious, you need more than a couple of centre backs to sort out that shower at the moment.
		
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And what do Man City need to win a game right now?


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## ger147 (Oct 24, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			And what do Man City need to win a game right now?
		
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A game against Man Utd???


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## Kellfire (Oct 24, 2016)

ger147 said:



			A game against Man Utd???
		
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Well they have that on Wednesday night so that should be City's inability to win sorted... but they can't play us every week so what happens when the next team who realise that putting any pressure on City's back line causes them to make myriad mistakes?


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## User62651 (Oct 24, 2016)

Was well publicised this summer that there is a total dearth of good centre backs at present, they're like gold dust, Morgan and Huth at Leicester were about the best of them last season, for those of a certain age can you imagine how much someone of Des Walker's ability would be worth in this day and age. Every one of the top sides in EPL seems to have a weakness at centre back positions. Where are the next generation of Rio Ferdinands, Sammi Hypia's, John Terry's?


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## Kellfire (Oct 24, 2016)

There's zero reason for Soton to sell to us, but if I was Mourinho I'd try to lure Jose Fonte to Man Utd for a couple of seasons. I think he could steady the ship.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 24, 2016)

maxfli65 said:



			Was well publicised this summer that there is a total dearth of good centre backs at present, they're like gold dust, Morgan and Huth at Leicester were about the best of them last season, for those of a certain age can you imagine how much someone of Des Walker's ability would be worth in this day and age. Every one of the top sides in EPL seems to have a weakness at centre back positions. Where are the next generation of Rio Ferdinands, Sammi Hypia's, John Terry's?
		
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Ashley Williams is one of our best signings in recent years.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 24, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			There's zero reason for Soton to sell to us, but if I was Mourinho I'd try to lure Jose Fonte to Man Utd for a couple of seasons. I think he could steady the ship.
		
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I think that transfer depends on how much fonte pushes. As quality as he is, with his age. We aren't gonna get the blockbuster fees we have for others. So as you say, no reason to sell unless with have a player kicking off. We need to keep him really as he seems to get better year on year and can play with anyone. Not sure how long his partner will be with us though.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 24, 2016)

ger147 said:



			A game against Man Utd???
		
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Again &#128513;.
Thing is as a City fan I am not worried one bit. As a City fan, without stating e obvious, players like Kolarov, Zabaleta, otamendi etc are playing for moves elsewhere. In some instances before the end of the season. Pep knows that and so do the fans, I suspect so do some of the players inc Toure.
As a Utd fan, they are still the best team in the world with the best manager and team in the world. Unfortunately at the mo, they are not the best team in Manchester never mind England.
As a City fan, top of the league and not winning, if we are not doing it right what about the rest of the league. Happy days ahead for City. Can Utd say the same.


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## Kellfire (Oct 24, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			As a Utd fan, they are still the best team in the world with the best manager and team in the world.
		
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Don't know any Man Utd fans who think that way. You talk utter nonsense.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 24, 2016)

maxfli65 said:



			Was well publicised this summer that there is a total dearth of good centre backs at present, they're like gold dust, Morgan and Huth at Leicester were about the best of them last season, for those of a certain age can you imagine how much someone of Des Walker's ability would be worth in this day and age. Every one of the top sides in EPL seems to have a weakness at centre back positions. Where are the next generation of Rio Ferdinands, Sammi Hypia's, John Terry's?
		
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But has that something to do with the FA's instruction to ref's to clamp down on the shirt pulling? I heard Ranieri saying that whereas his defenders played on the edge of legality last year, this year they can't risk it


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 25, 2016)

http://youtu.be/M5HbmeNKino

RIP Carlos Alberto


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 25, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



http://youtu.be/M5HbmeNKino

RIP Carlos Alberto
		
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37767301

Very sad but what a goal. And perfect commentary from David Coleman


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2016)

Good game tonight - enjoyed it 

A good amount of talented young English players on the pitch and every one of them held their own - impressed again with Stewart and Alex-Arnold was superb 

Decent win and into the hat for the next round

The ref though again was shocking


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## Papas1982 (Oct 25, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Good game tonight - enjoyed it 

A good amount of talented young English players on the pitch and every one of them held their own - impressed again with Stewart and Alex-Arnold was superb 

Decent win and into the hat for the next round

The ref though again was shocking
		
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Was a very entertaining game. Seems all the players have started to play the same way (across all liverpools age ranges). Will be interesting to see if they continue onwards towards a final with youth and perform well against a full team.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 26, 2016)

good game to say its played on an ice rink


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			good game to say its played on an ice rink
		
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Good game ?! 

Really ? 

It's shocking - have they managed a shot on target yet - either side


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## Tashyboy (Oct 26, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Don't know any Man Utd fans who think that way. You talk utter nonsense.
		
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Apparantly am not the only one.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 26, 2016)

There's the breakthrough. Should open the game nicely. City looking a bit vulnerable in the last five minutes


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## Tashyboy (Oct 26, 2016)

A poor city display
A poor referee
Pogbas best game for Utd.
Utd deserved winners


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## sawtooth (Oct 26, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			A poor city display
A poor referee
Pogbas best game for Utd.
Utd deserved winners
		
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Guardiola winless in 6 , if he wants to play like Barcelona he has a long way to go with this lot.

Pleased for Mourinho actually , i think this is the real Utd whereas the defeat against Chelsea was a bit of a freak result.


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## Foxholer (Oct 26, 2016)

Excellent win by Hammers against a Chelsea team that only sent the big guns on after 65 or so mins. Shame about the last second 'clean sheet destroyer', but that might kick start WH's Home Game performance - which I've always thought would be a problem this season!


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Guardiola winless in 6 , if he wants to play like Barcelona he has a long way to go with this lot.

Pleased for Mourinho actually , i think this is the real Utd whereas the defeat against Chelsea was a bit of a freak result.
		
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Did you watch the game ?

City played a bunch of reserves or kids or people returning from injury where as Utd had a very strong side out 

And even then it seemed a helping hand from the ref was needed - they were shocking and if that's the real Utd then mid table would be a good finish for them


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 27, 2016)

Not sure how high the EFL cup was on Pep's list of priorities and that was shown by the starting line up. Thought United were poor and did little to break them down.

Disappointing to see the scenes at West Ham despite a massive police presence and some issues inside and out of the stadium that clearly need addressing quickly. I hope the culprits are picked out and dealt with


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## sawtooth (Oct 27, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Did you watch the game ?

City played a bunch of reserves or kids or people returning from injury where as Utd had a very strong side out 

And even then it seemed a helping hand from the ref was needed - they were shocking and if that's the real Utd then mid table would be a good finish for them
		
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Take away Chelsea drubbing last week and Utd have looked OK. Of course they are not the finished article yet but they could have been on the end of another 4 nil defeat tonight but they weren't.

It's not pretty and it's not the Utd way (although they played well in patches) but getting back to clean sheets is the basis to which to build from. Pretty sure Utd fans are happy with any kind of win against their local rivals and Pep would have wanted a win to break their winless run.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 27, 2016)

As a City fan you have to try and look for positives ( not excuses ) from last nights game.
Maffeo at right back was excellent.
Ineacho is not a serious threat to Aguero, could well be City's super sub. To one footed.
Kompany has been told to listen to his body and be honest when he cannot play.Saying he was tired for the second half could well confirm that. He may well play a good bit more.
Kolarov and Otamendia days are numbered.
Pep will have noticedall of that and then some.

what has happened to Luke Shaw, I know he has had a serious injury but he looked a shadow of the player that ripped City to bits when playing for Saints a few years ago.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Take away Chelsea drubbing last week and Utd have looked OK. Of course they are not the finished article yet but they could have been on the end of another 4 nil defeat tonight but they weren't.

It's not pretty and it's not the Utd way (although they played well in patches) but getting back to clean sheets is the basis to which to build from. Pretty sure Utd fans are happy with any kind of win against their local rivals and Pep would have wanted a win to break their winless run.
		
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Looking "ok" isn't exactly what Man Utd fans prob expect 

They played a full strength team last night against a very much weakened City team and got by in the end but didn't see many shoots of improvements - Ibrahimovic hasn't scored now for a while and believe it's his worst run in his career ( prob one move too much but will earn millions ) , Pogba still nowhere near dominating games like he should , Rashford looking a shadow of the player that burst onto the scene last year , lost their one strong CB for a couple of months , the best player in the German league last year seems to not be worthy of a game , missing their other bright quick striker in Martial and then there is the Rooney issue plus the manager being miserable as sin at the moment 

It's hard to look for many positives to grab for Man Utd beyond De Gea - I can't see how they are going to get anywhere near a top four spot at the moment. 


On a different subject I see there was more violence at West Ham again 

Listening to 5live this morning and A spokesman from West Supporters Group was pretty much trying to blame everyone else bar their own fans , saying that the media are blowing it all out of proportion - despite a young girl getting a nice cut on her forehead from a thrown pound coin - apparently there isn't an issue at the new stadium yet so far this season 57 fans have been banned from the stadium for life before last night with more arrested - there is clearly a big issue with the new stadium and a portion of inbreds visiting it - strong action should be taken , soon will have to ban fans from watching. It appears the greed of West Ham had clouded any judgement in regards the move from Upton Park


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## Kellfire (Oct 27, 2016)

Pep out. Can't even beat a woeful Man Utd team. Was that the sixth game in a row they've gone 1-0 down? No wins in forever?

Shockingly bad for a man on so much money with so much talent at his disposal.


/irony


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## richy (Oct 27, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looking "ok" isn't exactly what Man Utd fans prob expect 

They played a full strength team last night against a very much weakened City team and got by in the end but didn't see many shoots of improvements - Ibrahimovic hasn't scored now for a while and believe it's his worst run in his career ( prob one move too much but will earn millions ) , Pogba still nowhere near dominating games like he should , Rashford looking a shadow of the player that burst onto the scene last year , lost their one strong CB for a couple of months , the best player in the German league last year seems to not be worthy of a game , missing their other bright quick striker in Martial and then there is the Rooney issue plus the manager being miserable as sin at the moment 

It's hard to look for many positives to grab for Man Utd beyond De Gea - I can't see how they are going to get anywhere near a top four spot at the moment. 


On a different subject I see there was more violence at West Ham again 

Listening to 5live this morning and A spokesman from West Supporters Group was pretty much trying to blame everyone else bar their own fans , saying that the media are blowing it all out of proportion - despite a young girl getting a nice cut on her forehead from a thrown pound coin - apparently there isn't an issue at the new stadium yet so far this season 57 fans have been banned from the stadium for life before last night with more arrested - there is clearly a big issue with the new stadium and a portion of inbreds visiting it - strong action should be taken , soon will have to ban fans from watching. It appears the greed of West Ham had clouded any judgement in regards the move from Upton Park
		
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Unfair to lay he blame all on West Ham fans. Chelsea fans were throwing coins from up above I believe. 

Both sets of fans have been on the radio this morning trying to blame everything other than themselves


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 27, 2016)

I only watched the second half, Bake Off took priority. City reserves v Utd 1st team, mmmmmmm. Otamendi was awful, headless. City have bought some terrible CH for big money and whoever bought him and Managala should be leaving the room. City have some nice back up players but none were hammering the door down to get picked. As a reserve team the signs are good though, introduce the odd one into an already strong team and you will be okay. Boy, do you need to keep Aguero fit though.

Utd are still deeply unattractive to watch, Pogba may need the whole season to settle in, Zlatan is clearly no longer the player he once was. Their goal followed a near rugby tackle by Herrera but then I didn't see a City shot on target so they didn't deserve it either.

All in all a typical EFL Cup match, yawn. Even pouty face winning the Bake Off, so annoying, was better than that. I'll not bother watching the QF, I'll read a book.

West Ham - Chelsea, what the heck is happening at the ground? Is there a fight every game? They seem to have time warped back to the 70's. Maybe West Ham will use some of the money they saved being gifted this stadium to sorting out the problem, either structurally or in terms of policing.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 27, 2016)

richy said:



			Unfair to lay he blame all on West Ham fans. Chelsea fans were throwing coins from up above I believe. 

Both sets of fans have been on the radio this morning trying to blame everything other than themselves
		
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Why do one group have to retaliate? If they really wanted to "beat" the opposition fans they should stay still, not retaliate and hand all evidence to the stewards and police. The guilty fans could then be punished accordingly. 
Of course that is to sensible, and just reinforces the difference between football "fans" and those at say rugby matches.
just as in prison, everyone says their innocent.


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## Raesy92 (Oct 27, 2016)

While Man Utd were poor in the first half they were very good in the second.

Had quite a few free flowing moves and could have won by a couple more. Pogba shot that was saved on to the post was a great team move. Also Ibra had a great chance after a great ball in from Rashford.

While it wasn't City's strongest team they still had Clichy, Otamendi, Kompany, Fernando, Nolito, Sane, Iheanacho and Navas. While bringing on Sterling, Aguero and Kolarov. It was hardly an inexperienced team they had out. Many of these players will feature a fair bit this season.


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## User62651 (Oct 27, 2016)

Mourinho keeps talking about resting Ibrahimovic given his age to get the best out of him but he contradicts that by making him play 90 minutes what seems like every match. Guy needs a rest.

Pogba is not looking worth the money so far, decent but not standing out imo. Expected big things given his Juve form last couple years.

MU Look like a collection of talented individuals but got gelling into a real team for me.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 27, 2016)

richy said:



			Unfair to lay he blame all on West Ham fans. Chelsea fans were throwing coins from up above I believe. 

Both sets of fans have been on the radio this morning trying to blame everything other than themselves
		
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I don't want to get involved in who was to blame, as I wasn't there, but anyone with any sense would know that this was a flashpoint game.

However, how can the local council keep giving the ground a licence, based on this years events? There has been trouble/arrests at virtually every game, and most a lot less high profile.

From what I have read, the segregation is poor and they are trying to get away with stewarding/policing on the cheap. 

West Ham, the local council, the police and the FA need to have a long look at themselves.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 27, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I only watched the second half, Bake Off took priority. City reserves v Utd 1st team, mmmmmmm. Otamendi was awful, headless. City have bought some terrible CH for big money and whoever bought him and Managala should be leaving the room. City have some nice back up players but none were hammering the door down to get picked. As a reserve team the signs are good though, introduce the odd one into an already strong team and you will be okay. Boy, do you need to keep Aguero fit though.

Utd are still deeply unattractive to watch, Pogba may need the whole season to settle in, Zlatan is clearly no longer the player he once was. Their goal followed a near rugby tackle by Herrera but then I didn't see a City shot on target so they didn't deserve it either.

All in all a typical EFL Cup match, yawn. Even pouty face winning the Bake Off, so annoying, was better than that. I'll not bother watching the QF, I'll read a book.

West Ham - Chelsea, what the heck is happening at the ground? Is there a fight every game? They seem to have time warped back to the 70's. Maybe West Ham will use some of the money they saved being gifted this stadium to sorting out the problem, either structurally or in terms of policing.
		
Click to expand...

I didn't see the "highlights" of bake off, but I heard there was much sweating, much will I get done in time, and much just about got it done in time, and I strayed 2 seconds over the time limit......... was I right?


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 27, 2016)

Considering West Ham got the ground on the cheap, cutting corners on policing / stewarding is inexcusable. They have a duty of care to their customers, fans, and at the moment they are failing with this. By all accounts segregation is non existent as it was not built with that in mind. Then again, segregation should not be an issue if the people attending were not idiots.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 27, 2016)

Considering West Ham got the ground on the cheap, cutting corners on policing / stewarding is inexcusable. They have a duty of care to their customers, fans, and at the moment they are failing with this. By all accounts segregation is non existent as it was not built with that in mind. 

Agree with the above.

Then again, segregation should not be an issue if the people attending were not idiots.

Maybe, but like if you build a nightclub - you cant not have bouncers, and trust people until they do act violently, you have to cater the security arrangements based on how some people act in nightclubs. West Ham FC seem to be closing their eyes, crossing their fingers and hoping for the best. Negligent.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 27, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I didn't see the "highlights" of bake off, but I heard there was much sweating, much will I get done in time, and much just about got it done in time, and I strayed 2 seconds over the time limit......... was I right?

Click to expand...


They were level going into the final bake. It was a batch bake challenge, 4 x 12 mini items plus one big cake. Obviously time was going to be tight but no worse than any other occasion. Jane messed a couple of hers, the door was open for Andrew but he blew 3 of his. Candice basically had to avoid any mistakes rather than having to be brilliant. She did avoid mistakes, she wasn't brilliant but she won. The others lost it rather than she won it. Not a great standard this year, okay but not top notch.

I had Andrew in the office sweep so I was disappointed there but even more annoyed that old pouty face won. So irritating :rant:


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 27, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Considering West Ham got the ground on the cheap, cutting corners on policing / stewarding is inexcusable. They have a duty of care to their customers, fans, and at the moment they are failing with this. By all accounts segregation is non existent as it was not built with that in mind. 

Agree with the above.

Then again, segregation should not be an issue if the people attending were not idiots.

Maybe, but like if you build a nightclub - you cant not have bouncers, and trust people until they do act violently, you have to cater the security arrangements based on how some people act in nightclubs. West Ham FC seem to be closing their eyes, crossing their fingers and hoping for the best. Negligent.
		
Click to expand...


You are right of course, it is just a shame. I was at the Sunderland v Everton game a few weeks ago. Both sets of supporters mingled outside the ground. I was in the Sunderland section but right next to the Everton fans. No abuse or anger in either direction. How it should be. It is just disappointing that we are going down that road again.

Someone mentioned a safety licence a little earlier, it may have been you. The threat of withdrawing that should focus their minds.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 27, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You are right of course, it is just a shame. I was at the Sunderland v Everton game a few weeks ago. Both sets of supporters mingled outside the ground. I was in the Sunderland section but right next to the Everton fans. No abuse or anger in either direction. How it should be. It is just disappointing that we are going down that road again.

Someone mentioned a safety licence a little earlier, it may have been you. The threat of withdrawing that should focus their minds.
		
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Yep, it was me.

If WH fans were causing trouble the club can only do so much, in real terms.

However. on this occasion they seem to be doing the bare minimum, or even less. It was a stadium built for a family orientated Olympics. I don't know how much changes they have done, but segregation of football fans is still a must, as is having police in and around the stadium. These things are basics.


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 27, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, it was me.

If WH fans were causing trouble the club can only do so much, in real terms.

However. on this occasion they seem to be doing the bare minimum, or even less. It was a stadium built for a family orientated Olympics. I don't know how much changes they have done, but segregation of football fans is still a must, as is having police in and around the stadium. These things are basics.
		
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apparently due to radio air wave problems there will be no Police presence inside the ground until at least February unless any criminal offences occur and they are called.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 27, 2016)

Again listening to the phone ins on the way home it's the same message being said by West Ham fans 

- it's our culture against our rivals 

- it's being blown out of proportion 

-it's only being highlighted by the media when it's us 

Total denial 

They are trying to do everything on the cheap and right now they are ruining the legacy of the Olympics with their actions - the club did nothing after the Man Utd bus got smashed up , done nothing since the issues at Watford - they don't deserve that stadium so they should have the lease removed


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## Tashyboy (Oct 27, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again listening to the phone ins on the way home it's the same message being said by West Ham fans 

- it's our culture against our rivals 

- it's being blown out of proportion 

-it's only being highlighted by the media when it's us 

Total denial 

They are trying to do everything on the cheap and right now they are ruining the legacy of the Olympics with their actions - the club did nothing after the Man Utd bus got smashed up , done nothing since the issues at Watford - they don't deserve that stadium so they should have the lease removed
		
Click to expand...

of all of the things that have happened since West Ham moved to there new ground, there has been one common denominator. West Ham fans.
There is one way to sort out this mess. Tell the owners of West Ham that if they cannot sort out there fans they will play the rest of the season behind closed doors.


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## richy (Oct 27, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again listening to the phone ins on the way home it's the same message being said by West Ham fans 

- it's our culture against our rivals 

- it's being blown out of proportion 

-it's only being highlighted by the media when it's us 

Total denial 

They are trying to do everything on the cheap and right now they are ruining the legacy of the Olympics with their actions - the club did nothing after the Man Utd bus got smashed up , done nothing since the issues at Watford - they don't deserve that stadium so they should have the lease removed
		
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Tashyboy said:



			of all of the things that have happened since West Ham moved to there new ground, there has been one common denominator. West Ham fans.
There is one way to sort out this mess. Tell the owners of West Ham that if they cannot sort out there fans they will play the rest of the season behind closed doors.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on. Or start deducting points. The club would soon start to take action against those idiots then. 

Why anyone would go to the match wanting to kick off is beyond me. You're not "hard" because you do it, they only ever do it in big groups or when they know they can't be got at. 

Thick moronic idiots.


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## Bogie Laird (Oct 27, 2016)

The stadium was not designed to accommodate football fans,and as a result is not fit for purpose, we had 5,200 supporters there last night and only 8 turnstiles available for them to gain access, the result of this, 300 fans were still queuing to get in as half time approached. The segregation outside the ground was non existent. If organising a football match was a task on The Apprentice, Ms Brady would have got the pointy finger. Unless the management take immediate action to rectify their appalling security issues, I think this situation will deteriorate further during the season, Chelsea still have to return to face them in the PL, and there are a lot more potential flashpoints on the horizon .


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## Tashyboy (Oct 27, 2016)

there are not many clubs that have gone to new grounds and hit the floor running. e.g. City, arsenal, Derby,Sunderland, Leicester etc etc. But West Hams probs are all to do with violence. Nothing to do at all with settling in. The only way west ham will learn is to hit the in the pocket. 8 yr old girls being hit with coins, disgusting. attacking team buses, disgusting.
The FA need to act and act soon


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## MegaSteve (Oct 27, 2016)

Easy with hindsight but for first season at least, only the previous season ticket holders [with a record of good conduct] should have been able to get tickets for new venue... Rather than put them on general sale... My family not happy with their club being dragged through the mire..


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## CheltenhamHacker (Oct 27, 2016)

MegaSteve said:



			Easy with hindsight but for first season at least, only the previous season ticket holders [with a record of good conduct] should have been able to get tickets for new venue... Rather than put them on general sale... My family not happy with their club being dragged through the mire..
		
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I'm sorry but I completely disagree. Who would move into a massive new stadium and then ban new fans from coming in? It would be half empty!


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 27, 2016)

Just gets worse for West Ham 

http://m.goal.com/s/en-gb/news/2920...o-sing?utm_referrer=https://www.google.co.uk/

Still nothing condemning the actions from the club


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## Fish (Oct 28, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just gets worse for West Ham 

http://m.goal.com/s/en-gb/news/2920...o-sing?utm_referrer=https://www.google.co.uk/

Still nothing condemning the actions from the club
		
Click to expand...

From the editorial within the link.

West Ham "unreservedly" condemned the actions of sections of supporters swiftly after the game.


This was always going to happen, there had been trouble at _every_ home game leading up to this fixture and it was widely known that segregation was poor if not almost non-existent.  Away fans often found themselves in wrong areas of the ground due to poor signs and communication with the ability to almost walk around it once in, so through no fault of themselves are then set upon.  This problem is then exaggerated when you can buy tickets so openly on general sale as this ground is far too big for West Ham!  

Obviously if there can be trouble against much lower profile clubs at every home game, and there was, to then not address and put in place far greater segregation for a much high profile match with loads of history is nothing short of incompetence!    

Sometimes I wonder if these situations are honey traps!?


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 28, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just gets worse for West Ham 

http://m.goal.com/s/en-gb/news/2920...o-sing?utm_referrer=https://www.google.co.uk/

Still nothing condemning the actions from the club
		
Click to expand...

I disagree as the club has been very firm in its stance about banning fans and assisting the police with their enquiries. Not sure what else they can do.

Given the nature of the game and the previous trouble I think they need to be more robust in the way the stadium is segregated but in all honesty it was never designed as a football venue.

When there are idiots distributing sick leaflets before the game, there is an inherent core that will seek to cause trouble. West Ham aren't alone in that and to be fair, no club seems that interested in cutting out the mindless minority that infects it.

Definitely wrong to say West Ham haven't condemned the actions. They did so the same evening. Doing something more tangible than that would seem a bigger ask


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## Tashyboy (Oct 28, 2016)

MegaSteve said:



			Easy with hindsight but for first season at least, only the previous season ticket holders [with a record of good conduct] should have been able to get tickets for new venue... Rather than put them on general sale... My family not happy with their club being dragged through the mire..
		
Click to expand...

The thing is though Steve, that when City extended the emptyhad, they did there homework and asked fans if they would be interested in season tickets. They got the response they were looking for. The fact they advertised season tickets at Â£299 helped massively. There has been no trouble what so ever. The same can be said for all the other teams that have moved to bigger grounds. The fact that West Ham have banned 200 fans is not enough. If they have proof that they have been causing trouble, the identities of those people should be passed onto the police.


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## drewster (Oct 28, 2016)

Fish said:



			From the editorial within the link.

West Ham "unreservedly" condemned the actions of sections of supporters swiftly after the game.


This was always going to happen, there had been trouble at _every_ home game leading up to this fixture and it was widely known that segregation was poor if not almost non-existent.  Away fans often found themselves in wrong areas of the ground due to poor signs and communication with the ability to almost walk around it once in, so through no fault of themselves are then set upon.  This problem is then exaggerated when you can buy tickets so openly on general sale as this ground is far too big for West Ham!  

Obviously if there can be trouble against much lower profile clubs at every home game, and there was, to then not address and put in place far greater segregation for a much high profile match with loads of history is nothing short of incompetence!    

Sometimes I wonder if these situations are honey traps!?
		
Click to expand...



I think you could be right. To let everyone out at the same time is literally "asking for it"  and both sides don't need a second invitation.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 28, 2016)

Fish said:



			From the editorial within the link.

West Ham "unreservedly" condemned the actions of sections of supporters swiftly after the game.


This was always going to happen, *there had been trouble at every home game leading up to this fixture* and it was widely known that segregation was poor if not almost non-existent.  Away fans often found themselves in wrong areas of the ground due to poor signs and communication with the ability to almost walk around it once in, so through no fault of themselves are then set upon.  This problem is then exaggerated when you can buy tickets so openly on general sale as this ground is far too big for West Ham!  

Obviously if there can be trouble against much lower profile clubs at every home game, and there was, to then not address and put in place far greater segregation for a much high profile match with loads of history is nothing short of incompetence!    

Sometimes I wonder if these situations are honey traps!?
		
Click to expand...

No small number of them looking for trouble outside Stamford Bridge after their away league fixture as well.  I know that every club has its idiots, but West Ham seem by far the worst of the London clubs.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 28, 2016)

It seems that West Ham are putting some more stringent measures in place

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...event-further-crowd-trouble-at-london-stadium

There are 200 fans being banned apparently and evidence given to the police. Hardly seems to be a club not taking the matter seriously although whether these new measures will work or not remains to be seen


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## sawtooth (Oct 29, 2016)

Giroud, what an underrated player he is. Superbly taken goal.


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## sawtooth (Oct 29, 2016)

And again, special player.


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## MegaSteve (Oct 29, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Giroud, what an underrated player he is. Superbly taken goal.
		
Click to expand...




sawtooth said:



			And again, special player.
		
Click to expand...


I reckon he should've been on from about 30mins...
Too many of the same type of player started today...

Anyway, all came good in the end...


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## sawtooth (Oct 29, 2016)

I don't think he would have wanted to use him for an hour, he hasn't played for a while. But like you say it came good in the end and nice that he gives us something different which we needed a bit today.

Although we should have won the game in the first half really. No complaints about the pen but we should have had our own just before. Not sure why Cech took him out when Kos was cleaning up anyway.

Good 3 points and wait to see what happens with the other resuts now.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 29, 2016)

Dont think there will be many posts today from the Spuds and rag fans today.

looks like the crisis at Citeh rumbles on to at least Tuesday when Barca turn up.

Just seen the palace goal, has the Liverpool keeper got any hands, if so why did he not put them up.

bumped into a Utd fan in Nottingham today, for a Utd fan he had me laughing. He said quote. " my Utd fan mates hate City at the mo, coz you have seen years of crap/Rammel football and we cannot wind you up. but City fans find it easy to wind up the  Utd fans" Never looked at it like that, but for the first time in a long time, a rag fan is correct.


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## SaintHacker (Oct 29, 2016)

What is it with Liverpool fans and flares? Idiots.


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## Fish (Oct 29, 2016)

SaintHacker said:



			What is it with Liverpool fans and flares? Idiots.
		
Click to expand...

Wait till Villa Vs Birmingham, that'll be mental &#128540;

Results have gone our way so far, just need the Eagles to keep plugging away and get something out of the game, theres a gap forming now with the top 5 clubs which I think unless anyone of them choke or implode, that could be the final top 5 but not in the current order &#129300;


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## SaintHacker (Oct 29, 2016)

Fish said:



			Wait till Villa Vs Birmingham, that'll be mental &#128540;

Results have gone our way so far, just need the Eagles to keep plugging away and get something out of the game, theres a gap forming now with the top 5 clubs which I think unless anyone of them choke or implode, that could be the final top 5 but not in the current order &#129300;
		
Click to expand...

Don't get too far ahead of yourself, big game for you tomorrow


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## chrisd (Oct 29, 2016)

SaintHacker said:



			What is it with Liverpool fans and flares? Idiots.
		
Click to expand...

You mean their trousers?


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## Fish (Oct 29, 2016)

SaintHacker said:



			Don't get too far ahead of yourself, big game for you tomorrow

Click to expand...

Is it? we can't be overtaken or go down any places, manure missed a trick today and others above us didn't pull away, so we're sitting pretty whatever the result while we still sort ourselves out.


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## SaintHacker (Oct 29, 2016)

Any game at St Marys is a big game these days


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 29, 2016)

What a cracking game - great advert for Prem Football , enjoyed that , some brilliant football going forward - the front three are top of the tree at the moment. Great enjoyable win :whoo:

Pardew clutching at straws :rofl:


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 29, 2016)

Arsenal did well but is that the end for Moyes. Are Sunderland the worse side to grace the PL? Entertaining game at Selhurst Park with clinical finishing and some pub league defending


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## Stuart_C (Oct 29, 2016)

Solid win, Just need to stop the stupid Individual mistakes.

 Can we start looking at the table now?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 29, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Solid win, Just need to stop the stupid Individual mistakes.

 Can we start looking at the table now? 

Click to expand...

10 games gone  :whoo:


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## Stuart_C (Oct 29, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			10 games gone  :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

 

Not heard from any of the yernited lot yet


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## Fish (Oct 29, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Solid win, Just need to stop the stupid Individual mistakes.

 Can we start looking at the table now? 

Click to expand...

It'll only end in tears &#128540;


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## Fish (Oct 29, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



 

Not heard from any of the yernited lot yet 

Click to expand...

Still on the coach back to Devon &#128540;


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## Stuart_C (Oct 29, 2016)

Fish said:



			It'll only end in tears &#128540;
		
Click to expand...

7th at best iirc :ears:


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 29, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Solid win, Just need to stop the stupid Individual mistakes.

 Can we start looking at the table now? 

Click to expand...

Of course you can.


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## Fish (Oct 29, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			7th at best iirc :ears:
		
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Long way to go yet, your like a Catherine wheel currently, spinning and whizzing like a midget on speed, but they all come to the same end with a cough and a splutter and disappear in a puff of smoke &#128540;&#128077;


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## Slime (Oct 29, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



 

Not heard from any of the yernited lot yet 

Click to expand...


What can I say.
Totally bossed it ............................. but met a 'keeper who had the game of his life.


Anyway, the table means nothing until they've all played 20 games, everybody with any sense knows that .


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## Tashyboy (Oct 29, 2016)

It seems the yernited lot only get goaded by the part time Beatles lot


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## Slime (Oct 29, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			It seems the yernited lot only get goaded by the part time Beatles lot
		
Click to expand...


I'm sorry, I thought this was an English speaking forum .................. my mistake .


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## davemc1 (Oct 29, 2016)

Another good win, plenty of goals and even more missed chances. Felt the new lb settled in well &#128518;


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## Tashyboy (Oct 29, 2016)

Slime said:



			I'm sorry, I thought this was an English speaking forum .................. my mistake .
		
Click to expand...

Nope slyme it's werldwide tinternet. &#128513;


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## sawtooth (Oct 29, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Another good win, plenty of goals and even more missed chances. Felt the new lb settled in well &#128518;
		
Click to expand...

Agreed but Gibbs isn't new he's been at Arsenal a while.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 29, 2016)

SaintHacker said:



			What is it with Liverpool fans and flares? Idiots.
		
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I've been in the Liverpool end at Newcastle, relative is a red and we meet up. They've been setting flares off for a while now. Obviously stupid but even more so because cctv picks you out. So.......you are so committed that you travel to away matches, you pay your money, give up your time and then throw it all away to set off a flare. I asked him why they do it. He thought for a second and just said "k#ob". End of. No argument, pointless.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 30, 2016)

Good to get back to winning. Good 3 points.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 30, 2016)

Agreed. Not at our finest but we got better as the match went on. Good to steady the ship and we can move on from here. Lukaku is a different player when he is up for it. Tough to handle after his goal.


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## Fish (Oct 30, 2016)

That'll do nicely, very impressive performance, clean sheet and only 1 point from top spot and looking better & stronger every match, what's not to like &#128526;&#128077;


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## anotherdouble (Oct 30, 2016)

Fish said:



			That'll do nicely, very impressive performance, clean sheet and only 1 point from top spot and looking better & stronger every match, what's not to like &#128526;&#128077;
		
Click to expand...

Have to agree Robin. They are playing well and I have not seen Moses play better. He is rejuvenated this season. Seems a totally different player since Conte arrived


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2016)

Think the Top 5 will move away from the others - can see Spurs dropping away thought to make it a top 4


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## Slime (Oct 30, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Think the Top 5 will move away from the others - can see Spurs dropping away thought to make it a top 4
		
Click to expand...


Don't forget United playing their way into the top four!


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## Fish (Oct 30, 2016)

Slime said:



			Don't forget United playing their way into the top four!
		
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At whose expense &#129300;


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## Rlburnside (Oct 30, 2016)

Wouldn't write Spurs off just yet, let's not forget we have the best defensive record in the league and not lost a game yet, like last season we have drawn to many games, but with Harry and Toby coming back soon we should get more wins.


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## sawtooth (Oct 30, 2016)

Fish said:



			At whose expense &#129300;
		
Click to expand...

Chelsea and Liverpool. 

Doing ok for the minute but wait and see. Also Leicester might also come back into it. Only a quarter through the season.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2016)

Fish said:



			At whose expense &#129300;
		
Click to expand...

Might end up battling for 4th spot with Arsenal at best


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 30, 2016)

Pretty straightforward wins for Everton and Chelsea today. I simply cannot see Man United troubling top four this season and I wonder what Jose will do to improve things. Pogba and Zlatan aren't producing regularly enough, Rashford hasn't produced the form of last season and Rooney is reaching the end of the line. They've spent millions but seem no further forward. 

There is a gap emerging at the top already and I think this will only get bigger and the top five will remain the same although in which order they finish remains to be seen. Looking forward to the North London derby next week. That'll be a test of title credentials for both sides. Chelsea v Everton looks a cracker too


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## Fish (Oct 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Chelsea and Liverpool. 

Doing ok for the minute but wait and see. Also Leicester might also come back into it. Only a quarter through the season.
		
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&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## sawtooth (Oct 30, 2016)

Fish said:



			&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;
		
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You have a lot of faith in a manager in his PL first season and with largely the same squad of players that failed so miserably last year.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			You have a lot of faith in a manager in his PL first season and with largely the same squad of players that failed so miserably last year.
		
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Which is largely the same squad that won the Prem at a canter the year before that. 

Seems Conte is figuring it out quickly.


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## sawtooth (Oct 30, 2016)

That was 2 years ago. Last year they came nowhere.

Not saying Conte won't get it right eventually but top 4 isn't a given in his first year.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			You have a lot of faith in a manager in his PL first season and with largely the same squad of players that failed so miserably last year.
		
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Thats where a great manager can make a difference though.

Playing players in their right positions, the right tactics, good coaching and being able to motivate them.

Conte seems to be doing it very well, as is our manager with most of the same team as Rodgers had. 

Machiavelinho though........


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## Slime (Oct 30, 2016)

Fish said:



			At whose expense &#63764;
		
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Liverpool or Arsenal.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 30, 2016)

https://twitter.com/dirtyfootbaiier/status/792799743089008641


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2016)

Slime said:



			Liverpool or Arsenal.
		
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Need to start winning games first - already 8 points behind so early in the season with a team that is clearly struggling. 

Can't see Man Utd getting near top 4 this year. So many issues with the team


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## sawtooth (Oct 31, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Need to start winning games first - already 8 points behind so early in the season with a team that is clearly struggling. 

Can't see Man Utd getting near top 4 this year. So many issues with the team
		
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Yes but you must have followed football long enough to know that every team has a dip in a season. Who is to say that the likes of Leicester and Utd are not having theirs now and that Liverpool, Arsenal, etc will come later on?

You might have a gut feeling but tbh it changes every week with the results. Pick your top 4 and be done with it mate.

Mines still both North London and Manchester clubs and that won't change until at least January.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yes but you must have followed football long enough to know that every team has a dip in a season. Who is to say that the likes of Leicester and Utd are not having theirs now and that Liverpool, Arsenal, etc will come later on?

You might have a gut feeling but tbh it changes every week with the results. Pick your top 4 and be done with it mate.

Mines still both North London and Manchester clubs and that won't change until at least January.
		
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Also followed long enough to see that not many teams claw back gaps like that and that whilst other teams may have dips the other teams need to take advantage of that. Man Utd have been struggling since Taggert left - And it hasn't changed since Maureen arrived - believe is a worse start that what they had previously under both Moyes and Van Gaal

We all know that Arsenal will have their Feb slump and I expect that we will have a run of games where we will struggle but by then I expect Man Utd to not be in a position to do anything about 

The only thing that is changing every week at the moment is the gap between the top 5 and the ones below. Leicester won't get near the top 4 and with the way it is at the moment Man Utd also won't 

I will be surprised if you see many people picking Utd to make the Top 4 right now beyond Utd fans and people that have already nailed their colours to the mast. 

The good thing is you continue to dismiss us


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## NWJocko (Oct 31, 2016)

Liverpool seem a bit like the Rodgers version on steroids just now, scoring and conceding a fair bit, great to watch though.

On paper they have a run of "good" fixtures coming up, without any European games they could be looking very strong in 5/6 weeks.......

May happen but I'd be surprised to see Utd get back in top 4, a lot more competition now with Spurs and Liverpool this season. Is possible but they'd have to go on an impressive run.


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## sawtooth (Oct 31, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Also followed long enough to see that not many teams claw back gaps like that and that whilst other teams may have dips the other teams need to take advantage of that. Man Utd have been struggling since Taggert left - And it hasn't changed since Maureen arrived - believe is a worse start that what they had previously under both Moyes and Van Gaal

We all know that Arsenal will have their Feb slump and I expect that we will have a run of games where we will struggle but by then I expect Man Utd to not be in a position to do anything about 

The only thing that is changing every week at the moment is the gap between the top 5 and the ones below. Leicester won't get near the top 4 and with the way it is at the moment Man Utd also won't 

I will be surprised if you see many people picking Utd to make the Top 4 right now beyond Utd fans and people that have already nailed their colours to the mast. 

The good thing is you continue to dismiss us
		
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TBF Liverpool haven't won the league for over 25 years so don't blame me for not getting excited about them just yet.

The unknown quantity for me is knowing whether Liverpool have the mental toughness, can physically last the season at the current energy levels, can play another way when they need to and have the strength in depth to cope with injuries to 1-2 key players ( because this WILL happen over the course of a season).

 Leicester had an unbelievable run of injury free games last year and it played a massive part in winning the league for them. Liverpool will need a similar freak season where they can keep their starting 11 the same.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			TBF Liverpool haven't won the league for over 25 years so don't blame me for not getting excited about them just yet.

The unknown quantity for me is knowing whether Liverpool have the mental toughness, can physically last the season at the current energy levels, can play another way when they need to and have the strength in depth to cope with injuries to 1-2 key players ( because this WILL happen over the course of a season).

 Leicester had an unbelievable run of injury free games last year and it played a massive part in winning the league for them. Liverpool will need a similar freak season where they can keep their starting 11 the same.
		
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But we aren't talking about winning the title 

This convo is about getting into top 4 

We have already had a few injuries to the starting 11 and coped with them - there are players waiting to come in 

If anything the struggles at times at the back will be an issue if we don't score 

We have a decent run of fixtures coming up - no European football , good strong second team for cups and one of the best managers around who has got them stronger and physically best 

And everything you point too is exactly what are Arsenal's struggles have been for a decade


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## sawtooth (Oct 31, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But we aren't talking about winning the title 

This convo is about getting into top 4 

We have already had a few injuries to the starting 11 and coped with them - there are players waiting to come in 

If anything the struggles at times at the back will be an issue if we don't score 

We have a decent run of fixtures coming up - no European football , good strong second team for cups and one of the best managers around who has got them stronger and physically best 

And everything you point too is exactly what are Arsenal's struggles have been for a decade
		
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Yes and we "struggled" as you put it because essentially not having a deep and rich enough squad. Major investment in recent years has redressed the balance and we now have a strong squad.

Liverpool for me have the same type of squad as Leicester last year. A great starting 11 but the bench is pretty thin. It can be done as Leicester showed but they broke records last year fielding a team with least amount of changes in PL history. Something I am pretty sure will not be repeated for a while.

Hey it's just opinions but that's how I see it.


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## freddielong (Oct 31, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yes and we "struggled" as you put it because essentially not having a deep and rich enough squad. Major investment in recent years has redressed the balance and we now have a strong squad.

Liverpool for me have the same type of squad as Leicester last year. A great starting 11 but the bench is pretty thin. It can be done as Leicester showed but they broke records last year fielding a team with least amount of changes in PL history. Something I am pretty sure will not be repeated for a while.

Hey it's just opinions but that's how I see it.
		
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What will be interesting will be to see how Maureen wins the title for Utd from where he is (Liverpoolphil said it would be guaranteed if a top club signed him as manager although I think he said guaranteed within two seasons so maybe it's next year).


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## sawtooth (Oct 31, 2016)

freddielong said:



			What will be interesting will be to see how Maureen wins the title for Utd from where he is (Liverpoolphil said it would be guaranteed if a top club signed him as manager although I think he said guaranteed within two seasons so maybe it's next year).
		
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No guarantees in football. You have to give someone like Mourinho a bit of time, at least a couple more windows so he can continue bringing in the players he wants and shipping the ones out that he doesn't. 

He was right about Willian when he spoke about him recently. Looked a duffer at first and took time to settle, now he's one of the best midfielders in the league. I bet he wishes he had him and a few more of his players from his old club at OT.


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## freddielong (Oct 31, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			No guarantees in football. You have to give someone like Mourinho a bit of time, at least a couple more windows so he can continue bringing in the players he wants and shipping the ones out that he doesn't. 

He was right about Willian when he spoke about him recently. Looked a duffer at first and took time to settle, now he's one of the best midfielders in the league. I bet he wishes he had him and a few more of his players from his old club at OT.
		
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Liverpoolphil was very clear that Maureen would guarantee success.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 31, 2016)

Why do fans moan "if we don't get into Europe we won't attract the best players", then when they get into Europe they moan " you're lucky not having to play in Europe midweek, your teams players get a rest"
Rediculous


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 31, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Liverpoolphil was very clear that Maureen would guarantee success.
		
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I think you'll find the same opinion from the man himself.....even sat in the stands...


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 31, 2016)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Why do fans moan "if we don't get into Europe we won't attract the best players", then when they get into Europe they moan " you're lucky not having to play in Europe midweek, your teams players get a rest"
Rediculous

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There are two "Europes" though. 

Europa league - more games than the CL, if you go all the way, Thursday night footy, less high profile, doesn't turn the head of players you are trying to recruit, not necessarily full houses, can hamper your league form etc

CL - If you qualify year after year you should be able to keep a bigger (and better) squad to cater for the extra games, Tuesday/Wednesday games, highest profile in club football, will turn the heads of sought after players, full houses = more money. 

I can't think of any London club who haven't taken full advantage of it over the last 20 years.


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## sawtooth (Oct 31, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			There are two "Europes" though. 

Europa league - more games than the CL, if you go all the way, Thursday night footy, less high profile, doesn't turn the head of players you are trying to recruit, not necessarily full houses, can hamper your league form etc

CL - If you qualify year after year you should be able to keep a bigger (and better) squad to cater for the extra games, Tuesday/Wednesday games, highest profile in club football, will turn the heads of sought after players, full houses = more money. 

I can't think of any London club who haven't taken full advantage of it over the last 20 years. 

Click to expand...

Helped finance one of the best football stadiums in the world. I agree 100% Pete.


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## User62651 (Oct 31, 2016)

Noticed on MOTD the WBA v Man City game had an awful lot of empty seats, would have thought Guardiola and Man C would be a major draw for the home fans even if they lose? 

Prices/disinterest/time of day - what's t'reason, would have thought they're bought and paid for season tickets seats anyway aren't they? As a neutral, of any teams in the EPL Man City or Liverpool would be my choice to watch currently.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 31, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			No guarantees in football. You have to give someone like Mourinho a bit of time, at least a couple more windows so he can continue bringing in the players he wants and shipping the ones out that he doesn't. 

He was right about Willian when he spoke about him recently. Looked a duffer at first and took time to settle, now he's one of the best midfielders in the league. *I bet he wishes he had him and a few more of his players from his old club at OT.*

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Well he's got Juan Mata backâ€¦â€¦â€¦  Maybe he'll appreciate him this time round.


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 31, 2016)

Crazy


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## MegaSteve (Oct 31, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Well he's got Juan Mata backâ€¦â€¦â€¦  Maybe he'll appreciate him this time round.
		
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That was a sale I never quite understood.... 
Even my blue mate was puzzled though he thought Jose was god and supported all he did...


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 31, 2016)

maxfli65 said:



			Noticed on MOTD the WBA v Man City game had an awful lot of empty seats, would have thought Guardiola and Man C would be a major draw for the home fans even if they lose? 

Prices/disinterest/time of day - what's t'reason, would have thought they're bought and paid for season tickets seats anyway aren't they? As a neutral, of any teams in the EPL Man City or Liverpool would be my choice to watch currently.
		
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They have been "Pullissed"?

I would think that most clubs would have 20% of fans who subjected to that type of football, wouldn't bother, but would return again if they got someone else in.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 31, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Helped finance one of the best football stadiums in the world. I agree 100% Pete.
		
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:thup:


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 31, 2016)

MegaSteve said:



			That was a sale I never quite understood.... 
Even my blue mate was puzzled though he thought Jose was god and supported all he did...
		
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I don't think you'll find any Chelsea supporter who understood that one.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 31, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			I don't think you'll find any Chelsea supporter who understood that one.
		
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Do you think Jose wanted to make a mark to say "I'm back, and I'm the boss".

I'm sure Mata was feeling very good about himself as had had a cracking season the year before, player of the year etc.

It wouldnt surprise me if Jose wanted to pick an early fight and maybe seen Mata being full of himself a little bit and thought .......right, son......


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## Kellfire (Nov 1, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			It wouldnt surprise me if Jose wanted to pick an early fight and maybe seen Mata being full of himself a little bit and thought .......right, son......
		
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Obviously we'll never know but that goes against everything people say about Mata. Humble, hard working etc.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 1, 2016)

It also does say everything about Jose though, "I'm the big man". Only ever heard good things about Mata.

Where is Stokie? He should be on here enjoying himself. The Stoke wagon is rolling on.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 1, 2016)

Seems like the Germans have a sense of humour after all, when they played Celtic the other week a pub put the game on the telly but could not spell the teams name. After several weak attempts they wrote " A German Team" Borrusia Monchengladbach found this funny and ordered 2000 scarves with a German team wrote on them. They have sold out so ordered some more :whoo:


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 1, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Do you think Jose wanted to make a mark to say "I'm back, and I'm the boss".

I'm sure Mata was feeling very good about himself as had had a cracking season the year before, player of the year etc.

It wouldnt surprise me if Jose wanted to pick an early fight and maybe seen Mata being full of himself a little bit and thought .......right, son......
		
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I really don't know mate.  He did it first time round with Joe Cole, who I could possibly see as being a bit full of himself, but Mata?  Mata was like another Zola, heard nothing but good about him, and was absolutely loved by the fans.  The reception he gets despite coming back in a United shirt should say everything about the esteem he is held in down here.  If he wants rid again we'd be happy to make spaceâ€¦â€¦..



Kellfire said:



			Obviously we'll never know but that goes against everything people say about Mata. Humble, hard working etc.
		
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This ^^^


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 1, 2016)

Great results for all the British teams in CL tonight, really enjoyed the City match.


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## sawtooth (Nov 1, 2016)

Important win for Arsenal and what a goal by Ozil, sheer class.


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## Piece (Nov 1, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Great results for all the British teams in CL tonight, really enjoyed the City match.
		
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Superb game that. Not one for defences though


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 1, 2016)

Piece said:



			Superb game that. Not one for defences though 

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Wouldn't of called that result at half time.


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## Piece (Nov 1, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Wouldn't of called that result at half time.
		
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I said to the wife at HT, there's gaps in the Barca defence if they press high and be bold. She ignored me and carried on watching Cold Feet.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 1, 2016)

Piece said:



			I said to the wife at HT, there's gaps in the Barca defence if they press high and be bold. She ignored me and carried on watching Cold Feet.
		
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No pleasing some people mate, :rofl:


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 1, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			I really don't know mate.  He did it first time round with Joe Cole, who I could possibly see as being a bit full of himself, but Mata?  Mata was like another Zola, heard nothing but good about him, and was absolutely loved by the fans.  The reception he gets despite coming back in a United shirt should say everything about the esteem he is held in down here.  If he wants rid again we'd be happy to make spaceâ€¦â€¦..



This ^^^
		
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To be honest, it was more of a question than an answer.

I dont know Mata, and he doesnt seem like a billy big boots, but from the outside it was a strange decision for Jose to get rid of him, so always leads to speculation as to why. 

Ill-informed, wild, baseless speculation by some......


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## Fish (Nov 2, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			To be honest, it was more of a question than an answer.

I dont know Mata, and he doesnt seem like a billy big boots, but from the outside it was a strange decision for Jose to get rid of him, so always leads to speculation as to why. 

Ill-informed, wild, baseless speculation by some......

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Jose was always tough on players that didn't track back if they lost possession and stopped, I think at the time Mata ticked that box, although he could be excused IMO for being like that as his overall contribution was still excellent when it mattered.  He's offloaded a few that shouldn't haven't gone either at a critical time with no real replacement or simply shouldn't have gone period!  I think he's always looking for the perfect fit but at times you have to offset some players slight imperfections because of what they offer elsewhere when it matters, Mata ticked that box IMO and should never have left, same as SchÃ¼rrle.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 2, 2016)

Good performance from City and Arsenal. The latter seem to be showing far more resilience this season which may bode well for their PL bid and they may even get past the first knockout stage in the CL. Some free kick by De Bruyne too.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 2, 2016)

Who said that German's don't have a sense of humour ?:lol:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37834104


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## Tashyboy (Nov 2, 2016)

What a night, what a fantastic night. champs league has finally arrived at the emptyhad. First half just felt like city were giving Barca far to much respect and it was screaming for a simple ball over the top. The ref was dire proper dire. Second half was just wow, and emphasised what I said earlier in this blog that City can at times play some of the best football I have seen. The first half showed the worst of City.
Cheers Pep.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 2, 2016)

Tashy - I don't have BT so didn't see the match last night. What sort of player is Gundogan? I don't know much about him other than he is highly regarded. Is he a box to box player, defensive, attacking, a passer? Give me a low down.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 2, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Tashy - I don't have BT so didn't see the match last night. What sort of player is Gundogan? I don't know much about him other than he is highly regarded. Is he a box to box player, defensive, attacking, a passer? Give me a low down.
		
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He is the lot , brilliant player and getting him so cheap was a great deal. He had a really bad injury last season so that obviously put teams off as he was looking to go for Â£40mil plus a year or so back 

Seems like Danny Ings is out for the season again gutted for him as he was just back from a season out last year


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## User62651 (Nov 2, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			What a night, what a fantastic night. champs league has finally arrived at the emptyhad. First half just felt like city were giving Barca far to much respect and it was screaming for a simple ball over the top. The ref was dire proper dire. Second half was just wow, and emphasised what I said earlier in this blog that City can at times play some of the best football I have seen. The first half showed the worst of City.
Cheers Pep.
		
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Agree with this summation, watched the game and a bit like last yr v Madrid they were too respectful early on, amazing how much confidence and zip the equalizing first goal gave City, was like watching 2 different teams either side of that goal. Apprently Messi had a falling out with a city player in the tunnel, good - those Barca primadonnas need a reality check sometimes, Barca looked pretty ordinary last night. Hopefully a club from outwith Spain can win ECL this year, Man City and Arsenal must have a decent shout of winning this year, Bayern will figure as usual. Tottenham and Leicester should qualify but cant see them going further than last 8, Celtic have done ok in a tough group but wont qualify for either ECL or Europa league I think given their remaining fixtures.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 2, 2016)

Sad news about Ings. Two big injuries now at such an early stage in his career.


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## Slime (Nov 2, 2016)

I'm really gutted for Danny Ings.
No youngster deserves the run of bad luck he seems to be in.
I genuinely wish him a full and speedy recovery :thup:.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 2, 2016)

Slime said:



			I'm really gutted for Danny Ings.
No youngster deserves the run of bad luck he seems to be in.
I genuinely wish him a full and speedy recovery :thup:.
		
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Football is a great way to make your living but it can also be very cruel.

Rhoys Wiggins joined Birmingham on loan from Bournemouth on Deadline Day. His career had been a little stop/start recently and he had to wait for his chance at Blues due to the improved form of another.

Finally, due to a suspension, he got his first start on Sunday and looked really good. Then just before the end he tried a shot and clashed knees accidentally with a Villa player. Now looks like being out for a very long time, just when he had got a chance.

Like I say it can be very cruel.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 2, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Tashy - I don't have BT so didn't see the match last night. What sort of player is Gundogan? I don't know much about him other than he is highly regarded. Is he a box to box player, defensive, attacking, a passer? Give me a low down.
		
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LP has said it quite well. Thing is when you first saw Gundogan you knew he was of the same ilk has De Bryune. He really is that good. His energy levels just seem astounding. Cool as a cucumber in front of goal.
that team he picked last night. The midfield and up front is the nucleus of our team for a few season. The back four no way with the exception of Stones. For a team that want to build from the back, that will be peps priority in the coming transfer windows. What with Jesus coming in January who is rated alongside Neymar, the future is looking good at City.


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## stokie_93 (Nov 2, 2016)

Went to watch Stoke on Monday night for the first time this season.

Average performance first half but hit the post 3 times.

Brilliant 2nd half, stepped it up a notch and were a different class at times.

What a steal Joe Allen is too, the man is an absolute machine.


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## Piece (Nov 2, 2016)

That's one helluva goal from Bale! 

Weird playing in an empty stadium.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 2, 2016)

City are a conundrum. They can be brilliant at times like the second half last night but can also be laboured and short of ideas the next week. I think Pepe will get it right by the end of the season and they will be stronger next year with some players going and the cheque book being waved again


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## sawtooth (Nov 2, 2016)

If Ben Davies stands up like a man instead of turning his back like a girl then Leverkusen do not score there.

The players today are real pansies they really are.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 2, 2016)

Is Delle Ali the biggest diver , prime Donna crybaby in the Prem ? Constantly throwing himself to the ground and then throwing tantrums when he doesn't get the foul after his clear dive ?

Is he the English Ronaldo minus 70% of the playing ability

And still will never understand how Walker gets picked ahead of Clyne for England - Walker is just a headless chicken with no end product or footballing brain

And Spurs fans booing and the final whistle ?! :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 2, 2016)

Disappointing night in Europe after last nights good results.


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## USER1999 (Nov 2, 2016)

I'm happy. Spurs heading towards Thursday night football.

Where they belong.


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## sawtooth (Nov 2, 2016)

Spurs suffering from Wembley syndrome. It doesn't feel like home ( because it isn't) and i am sure the away team raise their game as well.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 2, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Spurs suffering from Wembley syndrome. It doesn't feel like home ( because it isn't) and i am sure the away team raise their game as well.
		
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Certainly agree it lifts the away team, definitely backfiring at the moment.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 2, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Certainly agree it lifts the away team, definitely backfiring at the moment.
		
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Will be interesting if they spend a season there for the league.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 2, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Spurs suffering from Wembley syndrome. It doesn't feel like home ( because it isn't) and i am sure the away team raise their game as well.
		
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The result isn't down to "Wembley syndrome" more the case of a very inexperienced side and manager. European football is another step up from PL football and they're struggling.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 2, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			The result isn't down to "Wembley syndrome" more the case of a very inexperienced side and manager. European football is another step up from PL football and they're struggling.
		
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Spot on. They seem very naive and can't control a game, let alone kill it off


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 2, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			The result isn't down to "Wembley syndrome" more the case of a very inexperienced side and manager. European football is another step up from PL football and they're struggling.
		
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As a Club they've played in Europe in 9 of the last 10 seasons, so not completely inexperienced, but agreed some players will be.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 2, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			As a Club they've played in Europe in 9 of the last 10 seasons, so not completely inexperienced, but agreed some players will be.
		
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There's a gulf in class between sides in the Europa to the CL. When the CL sides enter the Europa they usually field weakened teams.  How many players are still there from their last CL campaign?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 2, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			There's a gulf in class between sides in the Europa to the CL. When the CL sides enter the Europa they usually field weakened teams.  How many players are still there from their last CL campaign?
		
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Maybe once (if) they got out of the group, but their group isn't the strongest and whether it's Europa or CL they have enough experience to at least realise it's a big step up.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 2, 2016)

Fish said:



			Jose was always tough on players that didn't track back if they lost possession and stopped, I think at the time Mata ticked that box, although he could be excused IMO for being like that as his overall contribution was still excellent when it mattered.  He's offloaded a few that shouldn't haven't gone either at a critical time with no real replacement or simply shouldn't have gone period!  I think he's always looking for the perfect fit but at times you have to offset some players slight imperfections because of what they offer elsewhere when it matters, Mata ticked that box IMO and should never have left, same as SchÃ¼rrle.
		
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I agree, dont get me wrong I hate lazy players, but you have to give them a bit of leeway if they offer a lot in other ways.

Mata and Hazard were 2 of the best players in their positions in seasons 2013/2014 and 2014/15, and one was bombed out and the other massively struggled for form in the season after, both under his stewardship. 

We have the same conundrum with Sturridge, lazy player but on his day is one of the best finishers going. I'd rather have a Sturridge than a Heskey though.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Maybe once (if) they got out of the group, but their group isn't the strongest and whether it's Europa or CL they have enough experience to at least realise it's a big step up.
		
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Monaco are a very good side that have lots of CL experience and Leverkuesen are no mugs too.

Spurs have got almost 80k of their own supporters in that stadium (2.5 times WHL's capacity), to  even suggest that playing at Wembley is the problem is stupid imo.


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## sawtooth (Nov 3, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Monaco are a very good side that have lots of CL experience and Leverkuesen are no mugs too.

Spurs have got almost 80k of their own supporters in that stadium (2.5 times WHL's capacity), to  even suggest that playing at Wembley is the problem is stupid imo.
		
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Unfamiliar surroundings and playing surface. It's like playing away for Spurs too IMO,


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## user2010 (Nov 3, 2016)

Excuses, excuses, excuses, face it, they aren`t good enough yet.


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## sawtooth (Nov 3, 2016)

It cost Arsenal as well ifor 2 seasons 98-2000


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## Fish (Nov 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Unfamiliar surroundings and playing surface. It's like playing away for Spurs too IMO,
		
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How many at Spurs play at Wembley for England, is that why were crap at International level also, we play at a National stadium that's unfamiliar to us?

So I don't buy that excuse personally, if your good enough you should be able to turn it on at Hackney Marshes.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 3, 2016)

Fish said:



			How many at Spurs play at Wembley for England, is that why were crap at International level also, we play at a National stadium that's unfamiliar to us?

So I don't buy that excuse personally, if your good enough you should be able to turn it on at Hackney Marshes.
		
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After West Ham's poor start, sky ran lots of graphics showing the majority of teams struggle at new stadiums. So whilst it's not the sole excuse, it is a totally plausible one.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 3, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Monaco are a very good side that have lots of CL experience and Leverkuesen are no mugs too.

Spurs have got almost 80k of their own supporters in that stadium (2.5 times WHL's capacity), to  even suggest that playing at Wembley is the problem is stupid imo.
		
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Monaco? Played CL football twice in 11 years and once out the group:rofl:
Never said any were mugs, just it isn't the strongest group, to suggest it is, is stupid imo.


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## sawtooth (Nov 3, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Monaco? Played CL football twice in 11 years and once out the group:rofl:
Never said any were mugs, just it isn't the strongest group, to suggest it is, is stupid imo.
		
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Top 2-3 in France are every bit as strong as our top 3 - including Monaco


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## Kellfire (Nov 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Top 2-3 in France are every bit as strong as our top 3 - including Monaco
		
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They really aren't - PSG at a push but the better English sides are much stronger than their French equivalents.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Monaco? Played CL football twice in 11 years and once out the group:rofl:
Never said any were mugs, just it isn't the strongest group, to suggest it is, is stupid imo.
		
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What about the previous years or doesn't that matter?? I never said it Was The strongest group did I?


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## sawtooth (Nov 3, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			They really aren't - PSG at a push but the better English sides are much stronger than their French equivalents.
		
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PSG battered Arsenal ( lucky 1-1), Monaco beat Spurs away.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 3, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			What about the previous years or doesn't that matter?? I never said it Was The strongest group did I?
		
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How far do you want to go back to prove your point, I accept Spurs don't have lots of CL experience, just the lesser Europa League, you came back with questioning how much CL experience the Spurs Manager and players have, isn't that the same for the current Monaco set up?
Totally agree with Robin that players should be able to perform on any stage, but any decent team playing at home tends to hold an advantage, imo, Wembley will not be feeling like playing at White Hart Lane to the players, regardless of how many supporters turn up.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			PSG battered Arsenal ( lucky 1-1), Monaco beat Spurs away.
		
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The same Monaco who knocked arsenal out of the CL after being described  as the easier draw.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			How far do you want to go back to prove your point, I accept Spurs don't have lots of CL experience, just the lesser Europa League, you came back with questioning how much CL experience the Spurs Manager and players have, isn't that the same for the current Monaco set up?
Totally agree with Robin that players should be able to perform on any stage, but any decent team playing at home tends to hold an advantage, imo, Wembley will not be feeling like playing at White Hart Lane to the players, regardless of how many supporters turn up.
		
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"You said, I said, you said" it's a petty response isn't it? 

I've not suggested that the reason for their poor showing in the CL is playing at Wembley.

Anyway, what do you  know about CL football your lot haven't been in it


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 3, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			"You said, I said, you said" it's a petty response isn't it? 

I've not suggested that the reason for their poor showing in the CL is playing at Wembley.

Anyway, what do you  know about CL football your lot haven't been in it 

Click to expand...

There it is :clap: I wondered how long it would take :thup:


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Top 2-3 in France are every bit as strong as our top 3 - including Monaco
		
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Eh? 

Who was the last French winner (or even finalist) of the champions league?


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## Fish (Nov 3, 2016)

150 season ticket holders at West Ham will have to be moved starting against Stoke this Saturday as segregation for the 'first time' is imposed, why wasn't segregation in place or looked at before?

2,900 Stoke going to WH and some of them aren't saints so although apparently they'll be police inside the stadium for the first time, I think they'll still be mayhem with a few days notice before fans gets moved and booted out their seats. There will be some 'not so' happy Hammers 

What a total mess and cock up and KB has the goul to judge people on the Apprentice


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## garyinderry (Nov 3, 2016)

Two cracking goals against man U tonight.   lovely


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## Tashyboy (Nov 3, 2016)

Ah see Utd nil are playing, and not very well at that


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 3, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			Two cracking goals against man U tonight.   lovely 

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Looked inept up front and rich for the picking on the break. This really is a poor squad Jose has got and he needs to lose the dead wood in January. Can't see United getting out the group on current form


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## sawtooth (Nov 3, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Eh? 

Who was the last French winner (or even finalist) of the champions league?
		
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12 years ago , what's your point?

I'm talking modern history Pete and in the past couple of years French sides in the comp have been more than a match for English sides.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Looked inept up front and rich for the picking on the break. This really is a poor squad Jose has got and he needs to lose the dead wood in January. Can't see United getting out the group on current form
		
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They haven't got a poor squad at all, there's tons of quality throughout the whole squad. It's cost over Â£500m to assemble.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 3, 2016)

Anyone care to shed any light on what's happening wi shrek. He has scored an absolute screamer and don't celebrate. Alls not well in Dulock.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 3, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			They haven't got a poor squad at all, there's tons of quality throughout the whole squad. It's cost over Â£500m to assemble.
		
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Certainly not playing like a squad costing that much. Where does the blame lie? Players under performing or Jose unable to mange them and tactically short (found out). They are struggling in the PL and Europe and hardly free scoring. Something seems wrong


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## user2010 (Nov 3, 2016)

Oh dear:whoo::thup::rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 3, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Certainly not playing like a squad costing that much. Where does the blame lie? Players under performing or Jose unable to mange them and tactically short (found out). They are struggling in the PL and Europe and hardly free scoring. Something seems wrong
		
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Or people are over-reacting, new manager, new players, 8th in the PL only 8 points off top after only 10 games, 1/4 final of League Cup and still in Europe, maybe a little early to judge,


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## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Certainly not playing like a squad costing that much. Where does the blame lie? Players under performing or Jose unable to mange them and tactically short (found out). They are struggling in the PL and Europe and hardly free scoring. Something seems wrong
		
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I don't know but long may it continue :whoo: :rofl:


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			12 years ago , what's your point?

I'm talking modern history Pete and in the past couple of years French sides in the comp have been more than a match for English sides.
		
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The point is that the top 3 French sides arent a match for the prem sides, and I'll even just go back 5 years.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 3, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Anyone care to shed any light on what's happening wi shrek. He has scored an absolute screamer and don't celebrate. Alls not well in Dulock.
		
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Because it meant nothing.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 3, 2016)

Well played Saints, thought they'd blown it when they missed the pen.


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## SaintHacker (Nov 3, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Well played Saints, thought they'd blown it when they missed the pen.
		
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Cheers, you and me both! And against one of the most inept refereeing displays. What exactly do the two muppets behind the goal line actually do?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 4, 2016)

SaintHacker said:



			Cheers, you and me both! And against one of the most inept refereeing displays. What exactly do the two muppets behind the goal line actually do?
		
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Did you see the elbow on your player during the fracas in the box?


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## SaintHacker (Nov 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Did you see the elbow on your player during the fracas in the box?
		
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Yeah, where did the yellow card come from? Thats either a red or he didn't see anything and its nothing. And we should have had a penalty at every corner, they were virtually playing rugby with VVD. Ah whatever, always a nice bit of karma when an own goal gets you the points after all that cheating


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 4, 2016)

SaintHacker said:



			Yeah, where did the yellow card come from? Thats either a red or he didn't see anything and its nothing. And we should have had a penalty at every corner, they were virtually playing rugby with VVD. Ah whatever, always a nice bit of karma when an own goal gets you the points after all that cheating

Click to expand...

For some reason European refs allow Italian teams to get away with it more, as if to say "well they do it every week".

I'm not sure if the punishing for holding at corners was an Premier league directive and not a European one - bifurcation of the rules?

Good performance BTW:thup:


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## Papas1982 (Nov 4, 2016)

Was chuffed to get the win. We weren't anywhere near as good as we were in Italy IMO. But if we'd got 0 points from the two games would have been gutted. 

Thiught the the one we got was the softest of our appeals if I'm honest, but how the 95 refs didn't give the red for the elbow I don't know.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 4, 2016)

Watched both the Utd and Southampton game and was quite shocked by the hounding of the ref by players.

The "respect" campaign has gone completely out the window and fines need to be administered.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 4, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Watched both the Utd and Southampton game and was quite shocked by the hounding of the ref by players.

The "respect" campaign has gone completely out the window and fines need to be administered.
		
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Again Tony, not sure if the recent clampdown is just a Premier league thing or a European one, although the UEFA "Respect" campaign has been running for a long time now.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 4, 2016)

Man yooniteds premier league goal of the month was scored by Martial v Stoke. There was no runner up as that was the only goal they scored in the league during October.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 4, 2016)

Fantastic win for Saints last night (reminded me of that night we bit Juve in the same comp)


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## Kellfire (Nov 5, 2016)

City's overall form continues to flounder...

 Best football ever though!


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## sawtooth (Nov 5, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			City's overall form continues to flounder...

 Best football ever though!
		
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Well done Boro , obviously not a fluke when they took a point at the Emirates a few weeks ago.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 5, 2016)

Stacking up behind City now


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 5, 2016)

Chelsea on fire. Going top at the moment


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## Fish (Nov 5, 2016)

Oh I never felt quite like singing the Blues..... &#128526;&#128079;&#128077;


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## Fish (Nov 5, 2016)

&#128526; we want 4, we want want 4 &#128514;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2016)

Fish said:



			&#128526; we want 4, we want want 4 &#128514;
		
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Please No, &#128515;I feel battered just watching, totally different class to us in that half!


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## anotherdouble (Nov 5, 2016)

Fish said:



			&#128526; we want 4, we want want 4 &#128514;
		
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We should of had it with Costa at the end there


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## The Autumn Wind (Nov 5, 2016)

Best 45 minutes from Chelsea in years. Sublime football.


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## User62651 (Nov 5, 2016)

The Autumn Wind said:



			Best 45 minutes from Chelsea in years. Sublime football.
		
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Agree with that, Everton are no mugs and dont get done 5-0 very often, Hazard and Pedro look very much in the mood these days, Conte's enthusiasm seems to be catching.


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## The Autumn Wind (Nov 5, 2016)

Not sure how Everton are in the top half of the table. No heart, no fight, they've been manshamed in this game.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2016)

The Autumn Wind said:



			Not sure how Everton are in the top half of the table. No heart, no fight, they've been manshamed in this game.
		
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Because of results, we've been beaten by a better team who've put in a great performance tonight, these games happen. Seasons last 38 games not 1.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 5, 2016)

The Autumn Wind said:



			Not sure how Everton are in the top half of the table. No heart, no fight, they've been manshamed in this game.
		
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Been taken apart by a very good side playing at the top of their game. Before today Everton have been a decent PL side who over the season won't be far off a Europa league spot. Every side will have a nightmare game and this is their one


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2016)

Lucky it was only 5, terrible performance, all credit to Chelsea better in every area tonight.


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## davemc1 (Nov 5, 2016)

Message sent by Chelsea &#128078;

How bad where the ev? &#128514;


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 5, 2016)

Good day not to have BT &#128546;


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## Rlburnside (Nov 5, 2016)

Brilliant performance from Chelsea tonight, but it makes me wonder what Chelsea fans think of Hazard who  had a great game tonight and got a good ovation when he come off.

This from a player that went missing when Chelsea needed him most and was a big factor getting Mourinho sacked, a manager most fans wanted to stay.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 5, 2016)

Well that went a bit tits up at Citeh, battered the boro and came away with one point. My first criticism of Pep. Why did he not change it? Well earned point for the Boro. Sounds like a good win for the Chelsea and me finks would be worth a sneaky tenner for the title.


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## Fish (Nov 5, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Sounds like a good win for the Chelsea and me finks would be worth a sneaky tenner for the title.
		
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But we're making way for yernited who apparently will rise like a Phoenix according to a bitter jealous gurner &#128514;&#128514;


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 5, 2016)

Rlburnside said:



			Brilliant performance from Chelsea tonight, but it makes me wonder what Chelsea fans think of Hazard who  had a great game tonight and got a good ovation when he come off.

This from *a player that went missing *when Chelsea needed him most and was a big factor getting Mourinho sacked, a manager most fans wanted to stay.
		
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Curiously enough the Manchester United players have recently been accused of something similar by someone; indeed a Special someone.  Seems to be a common factor thenâ€¦â€¦â€¦. 

Haven't seen Chelsea play that well in ages.  My seat is almost directly in front of the TV studio.  I turned round just after Hazard put the 4th in, Scholes & McManaman were both applauding whilst shaking their heads in disbelief.  Bit lucky I suppose; after all, according to some on here Hazard is just a flat track bullyâ€¦â€¦â€¦.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 5, 2016)

Fish said:



			But we're making way for yernited who apparently will rise like a Phoenix according to a bitter jealous gurner &#62978;&#62978;
		
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B
was talking to some Italian friends in June time about this seasons premier league and the new managers. They said " underestimate Conta at your peril". They reckon he is the real deal.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 5, 2016)

Only watched the first half and they were pretty good - impressed with Costa and the way he stayed calm after that studs up tackle on him. How the ref didn't even give a foul for that is unexplainable


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 5, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Only watched the first half and they were pretty good - impressed with Costa and the way he stayed calm after that studs up tackle on him. How the ref didn't even give a foul for that is unexplainable
		
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What's really unexplainable Phil is how the Everton fans, in front of whom the incident occurred, sat fit to boo Costa for assaulting Coleman's studs with his shin.  Should have been obvious it was a clear foul and the booing as if Costa had dived was out of order.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 5, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			What's really unexplainable Phil is how the Everton fans, in front of whom the incident occurred, sat fit to boo Costa for assaulting Coleman's studs with his shin.  Should have been obvious it was a clear foul and the booing as if Costa had dived was out of order.
		
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Clear from the coverage that the challenge drew blood too. Poor challenge and deserved a booking. In fact I've seen reds for similar


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 5, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			What's really unexplainable Phil is how the Everton fans, in front of whom the incident occurred, sat fit to boo Costa for assaulting Coleman's studs with his shin.  Should have been obvious it was a clear foul and the booing as if Costa had dived was out of order.
		
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Yeah I heard the booing and at first I thought it was Coleman how was being booed - can't understand how they could boo Costa , was clearly a foul - prob a yellow as it was late as opppsed to malicious ( but a red card wouldn't have been a wrong decision ). Thought when I saw that he was bleeding that he was off.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			What's really unexplainable Phil is how the Everton fans, in front of whom the incident occurred, sat fit to boo Costa for assaulting Coleman's studs with his shin.  Should have been obvious it was a clear foul and the booing as if Costa had dived was out of order.
		
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We see things differently, you's were awesome tonight and if the Referee doesn't give a foul biased fans( were all guilty of that) see the opposition as feigning injury.
If that's what people pick out of a performance like that, I give up.
So much football to be admired and discussed and we compliment Costa's staying cool and a possible error by the Ref.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			We see things differently, you's were awesome tonight and if the Referee doesn't give a foul biased fans( were all guilty of that) see the opposition as feigning injury.
If that's what people pick out of a performance like that, I give up.
So much football to be admired and discussed and we compliment Costa's staying cool and a possible error by the Ref.
		
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They are talking points but I agree it shouldn't take away from a marvellous performance. By far the best I've seen for a few seasons. Costa did seem more disciplined today and wonder if that's the new manager working more effectively with him than the predecessors. Is it a good time for Everton to have a gap now, and regroup after the break or would you prefer another game quickly to get that game out of the season? Mind you Swansea at home is probably an ideal fixture


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			We see things differently, you's were awesome tonight and if the Referee doesn't give a foul biased fans( were all guilty of that) see the opposition as feigning injury.
*If that's what people pick out of a performance like that, I give up.*
So much football to be admired and discussed and we compliment Costa's staying cool and a possible error by the Ref.
		
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I actually didn't pick it out Paul; Phil did and I commented on it from a different perspective.  If there was any doubt about the level of contact then I'd quite understand it as Costa isn't exactly without previous on that front, but it was clear from 100 yards away that Coleman had taken him out & right in front of the very fans who then booed Costa.  I'm sorry mate but there was no feigned injury there and if those booing thought there was then they don't need Specsavers, they need labradors and white sticks.  

Given the amount of flak that Costa has received on here (a lot of it justified) for his hot-headedness, maybe the fact that he hasn't taken out the bloke that did him is worthy of comment.

My pick was the two ex-pros appreciation of just how good Hazard was.


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## SaintHacker (Nov 5, 2016)

Ronald who?:whoo:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			I actually didn't pick it out Paul; Phil did and I commented on it from a different perspective.  If there was any doubt about the level of contact then I'd quite understand it as Costa isn't exactly without previous on that front, but it was clear from 100 yards away that Coleman had taken him out & right in front of the very fans who then booed Costa.  I'm sorry mate but there was no feigned injury there and if those booing thought there was then they don't need Specsavers, they need labradors and white sticks.  

Given the amount of flak that Costa has received on here (a lot of it justified) for his hot-headedness, maybe the fact that he hasn't taken out the bloke that did him is worthy of comment.

My pick was the two ex-pros appreciation of just how good Hazard was.
		
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The response to yourself was more about the fans booing, what do you expect opposition fans to do when a player with previous goes down after a tackle and no foul is given? it was a hard tackle and the Ref wasn't 100 yds away and he didn't give a foul, I think we forget at times it's a contact sport.
Seen it mentioned on social media and BBC about the Everton fans applauding Chelsea off at the end.

Maybe Costa accepted it as a fair challenge were he come off second best.

The best way Costa answered was with his performance.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2016)

SaintHacker said:



			Ronald who?:whoo:
		
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Koeman, 4 places and 5 points clear of the club he left behind:rofl:


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			The response to yourself was more about the fans booing, *what do you expect opposition fans to do when a player with previous goes down after a tackle and no foul is given?* it was a hard tackle and the Ref wasn't 100 yds away and he didn't give a foul, I think we forget at times it's a contact sport.
Seen it mentioned on social media and BBC about the Everton fans applauding Chelsea off at the end.

Maybe Costa accepted it as a fair challenge were he come off second best.

The best way Costa answered was with his performance.
		
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When it's obviously a dive then I fully expect them to boo; I'd be telling him in no uncertain terms to cut it out too.

The point is it clearly wasn't a dive & was right under their noses and under those circumstances I expect different.  Maybe you had to be there to fully appreciate the nature of it.


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## SaintHacker (Nov 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Koeman, 4 places and 5 points clear of the club he left behind:rofl:
		
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The club who have a game in hand (v Hull) and who only got beat 3-0by Chelsea!


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 5, 2016)

SaintHacker said:



			The club who have a game in hand (v Hull) and who only got beat 3-0by Chelsea!

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But you were at homeâ€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			When it's obviously a dive then I fully expect them to boo; I'd be telling him in no uncertain terms to cut it out too.

The point is it clearly wasn't a dive & was right under their noses and under those circumstances I expect different.  Maybe you had to be there to fully appreciate the nature of it.
		
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Whether I was there or not is irrelevant, in the opinion of the only one that matters, the Ref, it wasn't a foul.

Regardless of that, best performance against us for a few years, some superb stuff and happy to discuss the actual football.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2016)

SaintHacker said:



			The club who have a game in hand (v Hull) and who only got beat 3-0by Chelsea!

Click to expand...

So if you win, you'll still be behind us? Probably best leave this one to the end of the season to see if he made the right decision.:whoo:


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 6, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			The response to yourself was more about the fans booing, what do you expect opposition fans to do when a player with previous goes down after a tackle and no foul is given? it was a hard tackle and the Ref wasn't 100 yds away and he didn't give a foul, I think we forget at times it's a contact sport.
Seen it mentioned on social media and BBC about the Everton fans applauding Chelsea off at the end.

Maybe Costa accepted it as a fair challenge were he come off second best.

The best way Costa answered was with his performance.
		
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Are you being serious ?

Coleman went over the ball and studs landed firmly on Costas ankle - the blood on the socks gave that away. 

If that had happened to an Everton player then the teddies would be flying 

It was a poor tackle that should have at the very least been a yellow and could have a been a red - the fact the ref was clueless to not see it doesn't change that.


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## Piece (Nov 6, 2016)

I would argue that Hazard was suffocated by Mourinho, asking him to stay wide left and track back. Conte seems to have give him a bit of license to roam.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 6, 2016)

Never understood why you get one of your best attacking players to waste energy and spend time at the wrong end of the pitch, exactly where the other team want you. Give them license to do damage up top and let other players do the defensive work. You buy players like Hazard to rip teams apart, not to defend.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 6, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are you being serious ?

Coleman went over the ball and studs landed firmly on Costas ankle - the blood on the socks gave that away. 

If that had happened to an Everton player then the teddies would be flying 

It was a poor tackle that should have at the very least been a yellow and could have a been a red - the fact the ref was clueless to not see it doesn't change that.
		
Click to expand...

Whether you think it was/is a foul is a pointless debate, the Referee deemed it fair, end of.


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## sawtooth (Nov 6, 2016)

How you feeling today Paul? Losing 5-0 , ,man that is rough.

We beat those pretenders 3 nil &#128077;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 6, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			How you feeling today Paul? Losing 5-0 , ,man that is rough.

We beat those pretenders 3 nil &#128077;
		
Click to expand...

Am good mate, could of easily been 7 or 8, making for an interesting season at the top, if they continue to play football like that you may have to change your mind about them slipping out the top 4.
That was some of the best football I've seen this season,


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## sawtooth (Nov 6, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Am good mate, could of easily been 7 or 8, making for an interesting season at the top, if they continue to play football like that you may have to change your mind about them slipping out the top 4.
That was some of the best football I've seen this season,
		
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....and some of the worst defending.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 6, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			....and some of the worst defending.
		
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Chelseas against your lot was pretty close. But that doesn't help your agenda does it.....


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 6, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			....and some of the worst defending.
		
Click to expand...

Not by Chelsea:thup: losing them 2 games back to back seems to have woken them up, looking forward to you eating the humble pie Fish and BiM will be serving you&#128515;


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## Hobbit (Nov 6, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Am good mate, could of easily been 7 or 8, making for an interesting season at the top, if they continue to play football like that you may have to change your mind about them slipping out the top 4.
That was some of the best football I've seen this season,
		
Click to expand...

If Chelsea make 4th, does that mean Arsenal go 5th... sorry Sean, cheap shot


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## sawtooth (Nov 6, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Chelseas against your lot was pretty close. But that doesn't help your agenda does it.....
		
Click to expand...

Arsenal were good that day but Chelsea are a different animal at the moment , owed it seems , to a change in formation.

Chances are if we played Chelsea today that it would be a much closer affair.


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## sawtooth (Nov 6, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			If Chelsea make 4th, does that mean Arsenal go 5th... sorry Sean, cheap shot
		
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I will keep saying that the season is long until at least February!


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## anotherdouble (Nov 6, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I will keep saying that the season is long until at least February!
		
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Coz that's when arsenal's season usually ends. League has gone and Feb is 1st knockout stage of Champions League and we all know the outcome of that


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## sawtooth (Nov 6, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			Coz that's when arsenal's season usually ends. League has gone and Feb is 1st knockout stage of Champions League and we all know the outcome of that
		
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Some teams don't even make the knockout ;-)


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## anotherdouble (Nov 6, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Some teams don't even make the knockout ;-)
		
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And some can't win it


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## Rlburnside (Nov 6, 2016)

Looks like Dier might play more of a holding role in midfield, good position for him, positive selection from Spurs, good test today against a very good Arsenal side.

Should be a good game 

COYS.


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## sawtooth (Nov 6, 2016)

1-1 is a fair result.

Everybody on telly saying Clattenburg had a great game, I have to disagree with that. Over officiating and giving free kicks away like confetti. Never a pen in my opinion but Dembele took full advantage of Kos stupidity and starts leaning into and going down long before Kos makes a tackle.

Cant understand Kos yellow card on Kane either, clearly makes contact first but what? cant you tackle from the side nowadays?

Not bitter about the officiating I would have said the same win lose or draw. 

We didn't do enough to win and if anything Spurs deserved the 3 points more than we did.


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## anotherdouble (Nov 6, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			1-1 is a fair result.

Everybody on telly saying Clattenburg had a great game, I have to disagree with that. Over officiating and giving free kicks away like confetti. Never a pen in my opinion but Dembele took full advantage of Kos stupidity and starts leaning into and going down long before Kos makes a tackle.

Cant understand Kos yellow card on Kane either, clearly makes contact first but what? cant you tackle from the side nowadays?

Not bitter about the officiating I would have said the same win lose or draw. 

We didn't do enough to win and if anything Spurs deserved the 3 points more than we did.
		
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Whilst this is the most objective post I think you have made after a game be careful you don't get suspended from the Wenger supporters club &#128519;&#128077;&#128540;&#128121;


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## garyinderry (Nov 6, 2016)

Silly tackle and a penalty all day.  No complaints. 


Slack passing from arsenal and draw a fair result.


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## Fish (Nov 6, 2016)

I think seeing as Spurs scored both goals Arsenal were lucky to get anything out of the game &#128540;


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## Fish (Nov 6, 2016)

As results stand, Arsenal must be happy sitting in their familiar 4th position &#128540;


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## Piece (Nov 6, 2016)

I need to find a large hole to hide in


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## Old Skier (Nov 6, 2016)

Piece said:



			I need to find a large hole to hide in 

Click to expand...

Could be the greatest comeback this year.


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## ger147 (Nov 6, 2016)

Old Skier said:



			Could be the greatest comeback this year.
		
Click to expand...

Would be the greatest comeback since Lazarus...


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## One Planer (Nov 6, 2016)

...Still fancy Watford.


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## Old Skier (Nov 6, 2016)

ger147 said:



			Would be the greatest comeback since Lazarus...
		
Click to expand...

Maybe not after all


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 6, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			1-1 is a fair result.

Everybody on telly saying Clattenburg had a great game, I have to disagree with that. Over officiating and giving free kicks away like confetti. Never a pen in my opinion but Dembele took full advantage of Kos stupidity and starts leaning into and going down long before Kos makes a tackle.

Cant understand Kos yellow card on Kane either, clearly makes contact first but what? cant you tackle from the side nowadays?

Not bitter about the officiating I would have said the same win lose or draw. 

We didn't do enough to win and if anything Spurs deserved the 3 points more than we did.
		
Click to expand...

Would say that it was a clear penalty - soft but it's a penalty , would be surprised to see or read anyone else bar yourself suggest any different

But then the Arsenal goal could and maybe should have been offside 

So now Arsenal have dropped to forth in the league - the two teams you have dismissed are now the form team and have smoothly playing the best football in the league cruised to the top two slots in the Table - 

Both have no European Football but have strength sat waiting 

Brilliant from Liverpool - possibly should have been double figures 

Is there any player playing better than Coutinho right now - ably supported by Firmino and Mane who can't stop scoring 

Such a great start to the season


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## Fish (Nov 6, 2016)

Southampton allowing a bigger gap to form falling foul of Hull, I wonder if it's the refs fault yet again &#129300;&#128540;


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## Piece (Nov 6, 2016)

Still top ten, I'll take that.


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## Piece (Nov 6, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Brilliant from Liverpool - possibly should have been double figures
		
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Yeah...fair score should have been 10-3


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## Fish (Nov 6, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is there any player playing better than Coutinho right now -
		
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Yes, Hazzard


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 6, 2016)

SaintHacker said:



			Ronald who?:whoo:
		
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Claude who?


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## Hobbit (Nov 6, 2016)

Fish said:



			Yes, Hazzard
		
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Is the right answer


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## One Planer (Nov 6, 2016)

Fish said:



			Yes, Hazzard
		
Click to expand...

Not forgetting

Aguero.
De Bruyne
Sanchez


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 6, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Is the right answer
		
Click to expand...

Tight call between the two if anything  

Impact for each team is the same - Hazard getting a few more goals but Coutinho creating a few more. 

Each team would prob keep their respective players and I would have Coutinho over Hazard 

Hazard and Costa have a great understanding - Coutinho the same with Firmino and Mane


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 6, 2016)

anyone would think that Liverpool were top of the league 

Oh wait a minute.......


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## SaintHacker (Nov 6, 2016)

Fish said:



			Southampton allowing a bigger gap to form falling foul of Hull, I wonder if it's the refs fault yet again &#129300;&#128540;
		
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No it was our fault for going to sleep at the back. Idiots.


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## SaintHacker (Nov 6, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Claude who? 

Click to expand...

Touche  In fairness we all said that when he wqs appointed!


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## Hobbit (Nov 6, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Tight call between the two if anything  

Impact for each team is the same - Hazard getting a few more goals but Coutinho creating a few more. 

Each team would prob keep their respective players and I would have Coutinho over Hazard 

Hazard and Costa have a great understanding - Coutinho the same with Firmino and Mane
		
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I think in Mane Liverpool might have found the next Aguero.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 6, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			I think in Mane Liverpool might have found the next Aguero.
		
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He can certainly finish , lots of pace , clever movement and can certainly pick a pass - when we bought him I must admit I was unsure especially with the price but at the moment he is justifying that at the moment.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 6, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He can certainly finish , lots of pace , clever movement and can certainly pick a pass - when we bought him I must admit I was unsure especially with the price but at the moment he is justifying that at the moment.
		
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It looks like his attitude has changed with you. With us he only ever cared about a big club signing him. All his best games were on tv. I happily took the money as for us he wasn't worth 30m. But he's looking. Ore worth it for you as each games passes.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 6, 2016)

Piece said:



			I need to find a large hole to hide in 

Click to expand...

We Everton fans are very friendly. We will move over and make space for you &#128513;. We can remind each other it is only one game and on the whole the season has started well. Do we have to wait until the international break is over before we re-emerge?


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## davemc1 (Nov 6, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Message sent by Chelsea &#62542;

How bad where the ev? &#62978;
		
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sent, received, forwarded on


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 6, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Seen it mentioned on social media and BBC about the Everton fans applauding Chelsea off at the end.
		
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All 15 of them?

I'll say one thing Chelsea seem the most balanced team out of the "contenders", can they win it with a 3-5-2 though as very effective now, but no-one has won the league playing it, and it does have some weaknesses, but none getting found out at the moment though. I think Chelsea have the players to play it though, so hats off to Conte to adapting the system to suit the right players.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 6, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			I think in Mane Liverpool might have found the next Aguero.
		
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No mate, hes not that good. Aguero is another level and some.


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## sawtooth (Nov 6, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would say that it was a clear penalty - soft but it's a penalty , would be surprised to see or read anyone else bar yourself suggest any different

But then the Arsenal goal could and maybe should have been offside 

So now Arsenal have dropped to forth in the league - the two teams you have dismissed are now the form team and have smoothly playing the best football in the league cruised to the top two slots in the Table - 

Both have no European Football but have strength sat waiting 

Brilliant from Liverpool - possibly should have been double figures 

Is there any player playing better than Coutinho right now - ably supported by Firmino and Mane who can't stop scoring 

Such a great start to the season
		
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That's the league sorted then Phil, Liverpool champions and Chelsea runners up. No excuses.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 6, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			That's the league sorted then Phil, Liverpool champions and Chelsea runners up. No excuses.
		
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Make a note of the post and see what happens after the last day of the season. I don't think it's done yet and while Liverpool were every bit as good as Chelsea (albeit against arguably weaker opposition) I think all of the top four would claim to have title credentials. I'm looking forward to a long and tight title chase.


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## davemc1 (Nov 6, 2016)

Go on then, who is the leagues best no.10?

Philly, ozil, hazard, silva/de buyne , ericsson, mata?

personally I've never rated ozil (don't mind admitting I've been proved wrong-ish) silva passed his best, hazard stunning (what he done to mourinho must hurt) Ericsson a spurs player (good but not good enough) mata, na. De buyne maybe, not seen enough 

if you're in the top 6, and could swap, would you?

its a no for me


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## Papas1982 (Nov 6, 2016)

Not in the top 6.

But if i was picking one, it would be Ozil. I think hazard could be the best, but his vanishing act last year hurts his appeal. Think Mata is underrated.


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## davemc1 (Nov 6, 2016)

Got me thinking of best no.9s. 

firminos not even the best drummer in the band  &#129300;


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## Stuart_C (Nov 6, 2016)

Sound performance and cracking result today.

Thought the keeper was solid, Lucas slotted in and looked comfortable, Firmino Coutinho Mane and Lallana were excellent.

Nothing has been won today but it was vital we won after others around us dropped points and Chelsea won.

Hazard has proved how good he is, where was that Hazard last season?


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## Papas1982 (Nov 6, 2016)

Putting a league 11 together currently playing. If i could have em it would be.

De Gea
Azpilicueta
Koscielny
Bailly
Bellerin
Dier
Ali
Hazard
Mane
Ozil
Aguero


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## Stuart_C (Nov 6, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Go on then, who is the leagues best no.10?

Philly, ozil, hazard, silva/de buyne , ericsson, mata?

personally I've never rated ozil (don't mind admitting I've been proved wrong-ish) silva passed his best, hazard stunning (what he done to mourinho must hurt) Ericsson a spurs player (good but not good enough) mata, na. De buyne maybe, not seen enough 

if you're in the top 6, and could swap, would you?

its a no for me
		
Click to expand...

You've forgot Bolaise 

All very good footballers and theres no wrong answer really, but id rather have Coutinho for us than against us, he's absolute class. The TV doesn't do him justice. 

Off the ball he's so clever making space and to be fair Firmino is the same.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 6, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Go on then, who is the leagues best no.10?

Philly, ozil, hazard, silva/de buyne , ericsson, mata?

personally I've never rated ozil (don't mind admitting I've been proved wrong-ish) silva passed his best, hazard stunning (what he done to mourinho must hurt) Ericsson a spurs player (good but not good enough) mata, na. De buyne maybe, not seen enough 

if you're in the top 6, and could swap, would you?

its a no for me
		
Click to expand...

I dont think I'd be changing the goalposts too much to suggest Firminho.

Today Coutinho was full of great touches and lovely "highlights package" stuff. Firminho, however, was the great all-rounder.

Beating Kaboul in the air regularly, great hold up play, scoring, setting up goals and tackling and pressuring every defender. Today was a great performance by him. The reason I think you could say he was a 10, is because he is playing a no. 7, 9 and 10 at the moment. 

Hazard is the best no.10 going forward, but doesnt offer anything in a defensive element.

Costa is the best no.9 at the moment.

Edit: Just watching MOTD a few minutes behind and all of this was typed, before Shearer copied my words, after reading it on hear, obviously.


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## Slime (Nov 6, 2016)

Pogba's goal ........................... WOW!


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 6, 2016)

Slime said:



			Pogba's goal ........................... WOW!
		
Click to expand...

Fantastic technique.

Hitting under the ball, but not making it rise is one of the hardest shots to do - he pulled that off great, and putting it in the top corner also.
For 90m, he should have beaten 4 men first though.:whoo:


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 7, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



*All 15 of them?*

I'll say one thing Chelsea seem the most balanced team out of the "contenders", can they win it with a 3-5-2 though as very effective now, but no-one has won the league playing it, and it does have some weaknesses, but none getting found out at the moment though. I think Chelsea have the players to play it though, so hats off to Conte to adapting the system to suit the right players.
		
Click to expand...

Glad you said it, I'd have got pelted for that!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 7, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Glad you said it, I'd have got pelted for that! 

Click to expand...

I'd of laughed if you'd said it. :whoo:


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 7, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Glad you said it, I'd have got pelted for that! 

Click to expand...

How can the BBC say that Chelsea were rapturelessly clapped by the blues at the end, when the end was empty?

Unless Kenny Everett has made a comeback (he was a scouser, after all):-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E39htndsmA


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 7, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			How can the BBC say that Chelsea were rapturelessly clapped by the blues at the end, when the end was empty?

Unless Kenny Everett has made a comeback (he was a scouser, after all):-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E39htndsmA



Click to expand...

Must of been enough for Chelsea fans on Twitter and Faceache to mention it as well, sounding bitter Pete! Why does it matter to you? &#128515;


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 7, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Must of been enough for Chelsea fans on Twitter and Faceache to mention it as well, sounding bitter Pete! Why does it matter to you? &#62979;
		
Click to expand...

I think I have commented on the blues about 20% as much you have on the reds.

I just wonder why someone would say that they got a great ovation from an end that was 10% full. A bit sensitive?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 7, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think I have commented on the blues about 20% as much you have on the reds.

I just wonder why someone would say that they got a great ovation from an end that was 10% full. A bit sensitive?
		
Click to expand...

Just confused, we got battered away and fans left, I can understand why, you's battered Watford at home to go top and the Kemlyn Rd was emptying with 10 minutes to go, some of your fans didn't even stay to congratulate your own team, you've commented more on us than you's this weekend, just wondered if you're getting a little bit obsessed?


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 7, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Just confused, we got battered away and fans left, I can understand why, you's battered Watford at home to go top and the Kemlyn Rd was emptying with 10 minutes to go, some of your fans didn't even stay to congratulate your own team, you've commented more on us than you's this weekend, just wondered if you're getting a little bit obsessed?
		
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:rofl:

If I'd have been giving it the big up to the reds you'd have shot me down.

Instead I comment on a daft comment from the BBC, and you say I'm obsessed.

I cant win.

Over the season how much do you think I have commented on the blues compared to you on the reds, go on, be honest.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 7, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Just confused, we got battered away and fans left, I can understand why, *you's battered Watford at home to go top and the Kemlyn Rd was emptying with 10 minutes to go, some of your fans didn't even stay to congratulate your own team,* you've commented more on us than you's this weekend, just wondered if you're getting a little bit obsessed?
		
Click to expand...

Haha you're talking pony now La, going top after 11games doesn't deserve a round of applause. The performance did but its nothing new fans leaving before the end of a game and that happens at every ground.

10/10 super fan points for your 20 or so who stayed though.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 7, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			:rofl:

If I'd have been giving it the big up to the reds you'd have shot me down.

Instead I comment on a daft comment from the BBC, and you say I'm obsessed.

I cant win.

Over the season how much do you think I have commented on the blues compared to you on the reds, go on, be honest.
		
Click to expand...

Chill out Pete, if either of us have been shot down for praising you lot, it's me, apparently I haven't got an honest opinion when it comes to yous.
Fill your boots praising LPool the table doesn't lie,
I take it we both can't make daft comments then?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 7, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha you're talking pony now La, going top after 11games doesn't deserve a round of applause. The performance did but its nothing new fans leaving before the end of a game and that happens at every ground.
		
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So Pete can make daft comments about fans leaving and I can't? :thup:


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 7, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Chill out Pete, if either of us have been shot down for praising you lot, it's me, apparently I haven't got an honest opinion when it comes to yous.
Fill your boots praising LPool the table doesn't lie,
I take it we both can't make daft comments then?
		
Click to expand...

I'm totally chilled mate, think its you who is losing the plot.

I didnt say you made a daft comment, I said the BBC did.

Again, how much do I talk about the blues compared to you about the reds? 30% tops.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 7, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'm totally chilled mate, think its you who is losing the plot.

I didnt say you made a daft comment, I said the BBC did.
		
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I meant daft comments anytime, not that particular one!


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## Stuart_C (Nov 7, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So Pete can make daft comments about fans leaving and I can't? :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Where did I say that or even suggest that? 

That's right I never. 

Your comment about us kemlyn boys was your way of defending your lot for leaving early. It's petty point scoring, that seems to happen a lot in this thread.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 7, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Where did I say that or even suggest that? 

That's right I never. 

Your comment about us kemlyn boys was your way of defending your lot for leaving early. It's petty point scoring, that seems to happen a lot in this thread.
		
Click to expand...

I'll tell you what Stu, I thought me and Pete were having a bit of harmless banter, remember it all started with Pete's "all 15" comment, either I've misinterpreted Pete's and mine comments or you have, but you win, I'll bow out and you won't get confused if my comments are petty point scoring. By the way, go back and look at your late night comments after the Curry at H4H Sunday night and tell me again about petty point scoring.
Pete, I apologise for any confusion.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 7, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I'll tell you what Stu, I thought me and Pete were having a bit of harmless banter, remember it all started with Pete's "all 15" comment, either I've misinterpreted Pete's and mine comments or you have, but you win, I'll bow out and you won't get confused if my comments are petty point scoring. *By the way, go back and look at your late night comments after the Curry at H4H Sunday night and tell me again about petty point scoring.*
Pete, I apologise for any confusion.
		
Click to expand...

Is that the night you accused me of posting while  being bevvied, even though I'd only had a few? 

What  are you spitting your dummy out for?

There's absolute no confusion on my part from  your comments.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 7, 2016)

Come on lads, lets not turn it into a scousers vs wools bust up.

JOKING, Paul.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 7, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Come on lads, lets not turn it into a scousers vs wools bust up.

JOKING, Paul.

Click to expand...

Stu's not a wool mate :rofl:

Hugs Stu :thup:


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## Slime (Nov 11, 2016)

Come on England :whoo:.


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## Piece (Nov 14, 2016)

Dzeko! Getting sent off for pulling someone's shorts down! :rofl:


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 14, 2016)

That was embarrassing. Why one earth did he do it? Good job we are no longer in the era of the jock strap 

I have no interest in the midweek internationals this week, let's get back to proper football.


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## Fish (Nov 19, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Hazard is the best no.10 going forward, but doesnt offer anything in a defensive element.

Costa is the best no.9 at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

Hazard in this new formation is the most forward player and is totally reborn, but watch this video by Pat Nevin and see how that formation folds back perfectly, I don't think many teams will cope with it and if they change their natural formation in an attempt to stifle it, you'll get what Everton got :smirk: 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38033200


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## sawtooth (Nov 19, 2016)

Happy with a point at OT and Giroud what can I say, superstar!


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## anotherdouble (Nov 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Happy with a point at OT and Giroud what can I say, superstar!
		
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So am I. 2 points dropped.


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## sawtooth (Nov 19, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			So am I. 2 points dropped.
		
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Really?! drawing at OT is never 2 points dropped. Man U will be top 4 this year.


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## anotherdouble (Nov 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Really?! drawing at OT is never 2 points dropped. Man U will be top 4 this year.
		
Click to expand...

At that my forum friend is where you and I will alway differ


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## Papas1982 (Nov 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Really?! drawing at OT is never 2 points dropped. Man U will be top 4 this year.
		
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Generally, the title is won by the team that has the most success against their main rivals. Usually it is where Arsenal falter. Considering you equalised at the end it will feel better than a loss, but at the end of the season it may be costly.,


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## sawtooth (Nov 19, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Generally, the title is won by the team that has the most success against their main rivals. Usually it is where Arsenal falter. Considering you equalised at the end it will feel better than a loss, but at the end of the season it may be costly.,
		
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Yes but if you take 4 points from title rivals that's not a bad return. Win at home and get a point away if you can.

I would have settled for a point to begin with tbf.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yes but if you take 4 points from title rivals that's not a bad return. Win at home and get a point away if you can.

I would have settled for a point to begin with tbf.
		
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I agree. If you can do that against all the rivals you're in a good place. But IMO, you need to take 16 plus points from Liverpool, Chelsea, city and Utd to have a chance. Imo, it's a bit early to take a draw. Especially with utds form. 

Only time will tell. Certainly not a distaster.


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## Fish (Nov 19, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree. If you can do that against all the rivals you're in a good place. But IMO, you need to take 16 plus points from Liverpool, Chelsea, city and Utd to have a chance. Imo, it's a bit early to take a draw. Especially with utds form. 

Only time will tell. Certainly not a distaster.
		
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And they won't get that tally with only 1 shot on target in 90mins.


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## garyinderry (Nov 19, 2016)

Arsenal have not been fantastic through October and November so far.  It was important not to lost that game today.  Could easily have lost against man U and spurs so positives to be taken.


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## Fish (Nov 19, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			Arsenal have not been fantastic through October and November so far.  It was important not to lost that game today.  Could easily have lost against man U and spurs so positives to be taken.
		
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I think the 3 of you will be battling it out for 4th, 5th & 6th, you didn't lose but it was against 2 teams that aren't exactly setting the world alight either! 

All the scores going Chelsea's way so far, although a Southampton & Palace win would be nice &#128526;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 19, 2016)

Bad performance at home to Swansea, loads of possession and very few good chances created, Swansea will feel like they've been mugged after a good away showing. 
Need to start winning or we'll start slipping down the table.


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## SaintHacker (Nov 19, 2016)

I'll take that. Pretty awful game to watch but we had a game plan which we stuck to well enough, the form Liverpool are in at the moment I think a point is an ok result.


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## garyinderry (Nov 19, 2016)

SaintHacker said:



			I'll take that. Pretty awful game to watch but we had a game plan which we stuck to well enough, the form Liverpool are in at the moment I think a point is an ok result.
		
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Firmino missed a sitter.  Comfortable enough for rest of second half from what I could see.


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## SaintHacker (Nov 19, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			Firmino missed a sitter. .
		
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Austin missed an even easier one


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## davemc1 (Nov 19, 2016)

Being a negative person I'd of took a point beforehand, having watched it deffo 2 points dropped. We didn't create an awful lot (firmino + clyne apart) but dominated throughout.

lil Phil looked jaded and we lacked a quality left footer, where we had most space.

clean sheet isn't to be sniffed at tho, and fixture list looking favourable.

good day for city &#128078;


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## richy (Nov 19, 2016)

Is Alan Pardew the.........


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## Papas1982 (Nov 19, 2016)

richy said:



			Is Alan Pardew the.........
		
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Manager of a premiership team?


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## Tashyboy (Nov 19, 2016)

Flippin Eck Yaya, where did that come from.


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## richy (Nov 19, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Manager of a premiership team?
		
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For now they are


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## Fish (Nov 19, 2016)

And what about slippy being offered the MK Dons job &#129300;


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## Papas1982 (Nov 19, 2016)

richy said:



			For now they are
		
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I reckon they will be next season too, same as you would have been on both the occasions the fans sacked your manager (Aallardyce too).


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## richy (Nov 19, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			I reckon they will be next season too, same as you would have been on both the occasions the fans sacked your manager (Aallardyce too).
		
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I didn't realise fans could sack a manager


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## Papas1982 (Nov 19, 2016)

richy said:



			I didn't realise fans could sack a manager
		
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Of course they have an influence. Staging protests and staying away. Your fans thought you were too big for Sam's style of football and you have been pretty constant on your witch hunt for Pardew on here. Even after he left you can't let go. And yet Newcastle's stock has fallen far more than his.,


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## richy (Nov 19, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Of course they have an influence. Staging protests and staying away. Your fans thought you were too big for Sam's style of football and you have been pretty constant on your witch hunt for Pardew on here. Even after he left you can't let go. And yet Newcastle's stock has fallen far more than his.,
		
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So he left us and wasn't sacked?


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Really?! drawing at OT is never 2 points dropped. Man U will be top 4 this year.
		
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Not a chance. I'll have Â£10 for next years H4H with you on that

On the plus side, I thought it was a solid performance in what I thought was a pretty uninspiring game.


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## sawtooth (Nov 19, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not a chance. I'll have Â£10 for next years H4H with you on that

On the plus side, I thought it was a solid performance in what I thought was a pretty uninspiring game.
		
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That's a deal Homer.

Man U to sneak top 4 ,  a tenner on it.


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## Fish (Nov 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			That's a deal Homer.

Man U to sneak top 4 ,  a tenner on it.
		
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If they did, Which they won't, it would only be at your expense.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			That's a deal Homer.

Man U to sneak top 4 ,  a tenner on it.
		
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Ahhh, so now you say Man U to SNEAK the top four..........I thought you said they were nailed on.........

The Iceman melteth.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 20, 2016)

richy said:



			So he left us and wasn't sacked?
		
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Was a turn of phrase. Sacked or forced out by fans thinking there was better out their for them. 

Either way. He's in the and prem.


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## richy (Nov 20, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Was a turn of phrase. Sacked or forced out by fans thinking there was better out their for them. 

Either way. He's in the and prem.
		
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We were sick of getting thumped on a regular basis and as we pay our money we have every right to voice our opinions if we aren't happy. 

There was absolutely better out there for us, it wasn't the fans fault the owner didn't appoint someone like that immediately.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 20, 2016)

richy said:



			We were sick of getting thumped on a regular basis and as we pay our money we have every right to voice our opinions if we aren't happy. 

There was absolutely better out there for us, it wasn't the fans fault the owner didn't appoint someone like that immediately.
		
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Of course fans are. 

But youre orignally message was a was a fishing trip to dig at pardew. 

As things stand. Ones doing a whole lot better than the other. 

His witch hunt aside. Allardyce was chased out before he even arrived. His results were irrelevant to his sacking. You all thought you were better than him. See, to recall that ended the same way too.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 20, 2016)

I'm not a Toon fan but I live up here and go to the odd match. Allardyce was never wanted by the fans and his style of football when he was here was awful. Mind numbingly backwards. Yes, the fans wanted him out as quickly as they could shift him. You'll not find one up here that regrets that decision. Pardew was disliked for two reasons. Firstly we was a consistent apologist for the hated Ashley and fans saw him as a stooge. Secondly his teams are consistently hot and cold. Three wins followed by six defeats. This kept happening, little progress was made and mix in the Ashley situation and it was never going to end well. Again you will not find a Toon fan who wants Pardew back. 

They would far rather take Benitez building a decent team, playing attractive footbal in the championship for a season than another season in the PL with either Pardew or Allardyce.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 20, 2016)

I can't edit on my tablet so I have to add another post. Again, looking in, fans don't think they are better than Allardyce or Pardew. They just don't want to see the football their teams produce. That seems fair to me, they pay the cash after all.


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## sawtooth (Nov 20, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm not a Toon fan but I live up here and go to the odd match. Allardyce was never wanted by the fans and his style of football when he was here was awful. Mind numbingly backwards. Yes, the fans wanted him out as quickly as they could shift him. You'll not find one up here that regrets that decision. Pardew was disliked for two reasons. Firstly we was a consistent apologist for the hated Ashley and fans saw him as a stooge. Secondly his teams are consistently hot and cold. Three wins followed by six defeats. This kept happening, little progress was made and mix in the Ashley situation and it was never going to end well. Again you will not find a Toon fan who wants Pardew back. 

They would far rather take Benitez building a decent team, playing attractive footbal in the championship for a season than another season in the PL with either Pardew or Allardyce.
		
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Hated Ashley?!?! , the same man that came in and turned the club around spending millions of pounds of his own money in the process?

Perhaps Newcastle supporters would love to see the team fall through the leagues but it would be OK as long as they played decent football.

OK Ashley isn't perfect but it's unbelievably  ungrateful and dismissive of Ashley's contribution IMO. Hated? Unbelievable.


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## richy (Nov 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Hated Ashley?!?! , the same man that came in and turned the club around spending millions of pounds of his own money in the process?

Perhaps Newcastle supporters would love to see the team fall through the leagues but it would be OK as long as they played decent football.

OK Ashley isn't perfect but it's unbelievably  ungrateful and dismissive of Ashley's contribution IMO. Hated? Unbelievable.
		
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That's exactly the response is expect from a supporter of Wenger FC


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## Papas1982 (Nov 20, 2016)

richy said:



			That's exactly the response is expect from a supporter of Wenger FC
		
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Would you seriously rather be watching your team wallow in league one?

without his investment you'd have been close to folding. 

As a saints fan it's nit as thiugh I've ever had aspirations of grand success. But when we were in league one. I'd still much rather have had more seasons of battling at the dell than travelling to Luton on a Wednesday night (no offence Luton).


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Hated Ashley?!?! , the same man that came in and turned the club around spending millions of pounds of his own money in the process?

Perhaps Newcastle supporters would love to see the team fall through the leagues but it would be OK as long as they played decent football.

OK Ashley isn't perfect but it's unbelievably  ungrateful and dismissive of Ashley's contribution IMO. Hated? Unbelievable.
		
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Ashley:

11 managers in 9 years.

45 Million pound profit on signings.

Net Worth of Club doubled to 542 million in his 11 years.

Relegated twice.

Wage Bill decreased.

From a business point of view all good.

From a football point of view what's his contribution? Were has all the money gone?
Does it not need to be balanced?
Buying players and selling for a profit is good so long as the replacements are decent, they're not, you can't blame the fans for wanting to see the man spend the money on the team.

Claims he regrets buying a Football Club but has rejected 2 buy outs!


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Hated Ashley?!?! , the same man that came in and turned the club around spending millions of pounds of his own money in the process?

Perhaps Newcastle supporters would love to see the team fall through the leagues but it would be OK as long as they played decent football.

OK Ashley isn't perfect but it's unbelievably  ungrateful and dismissive of Ashley's contribution IMO. Hated? Unbelievable.
		
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He has singularly managed a decline of a great football club, for personal profit. He has instilled a sense of "just get by", and doesnt strive to achieve.........actually,I can see the attraction.

Football shouldnt be about balance sheets, P+L but about glory, trophies and memorable matches.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 20, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Would you seriously rather be watching your team wallow in league one?

without his investment you'd have been close to folding. 

As a saints fan it's nit as thiugh I've ever had aspirations of grand success. But when we were in league one. I'd still much rather have had more seasons of battling at the dell than travelling to Luton on a Wednesday night (no offence Luton).
		
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No your right, Luton deserve stick.:thup:

Although I would generally always want my team to be in the top division, I would rather have a Benitez in the championship playing good attacking football than a Pullis/Allardyce team treading water in the prem playing their "style" of football.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 20, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			No your right, Luton deserve stick.:thup:

Although I would generally always want my team to be in the top division, I would rather have a Benitez in the championship playing good attacking football than a Pullis/Allardyce team treading water in the prem playing their "style" of football.
		
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You have the advantage of not having had that choice. 

Trust me, just because your team aspire to play well, it doesn't mean you get to watch it week in week out when grinding through a season in the championship. 

Whikst i I accept certain styles aren't favourable long term. I still recall allardyce at Bolton and whilst he had no problem upsetting the big teams with anti football,  he had flair too. 

A year or 4 in the championship and maybe Newcastle fans will change their mind. 

As to all all the talk of Ashley. Do I think he's a great chairman? Not at all. But, do o think Newcastle would even be as high in the football pyramid with out him? That's a no too.


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## richy (Nov 20, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Would you seriously rather be watching your team wallow in league one?

without his investment you'd have been close to folding.
		
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Why does it have to be one or the other?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 20, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			You have the advantage of not having had that choice. 

Trust me, just because your team aspire to play well, it doesn't mean you get to watch it week in week out when grinding through a season in the championship. 

Whikst i I accept certain styles aren't favourable long term. I still recall allardyce at Bolton and whilst he had no problem upsetting the big teams with anti football,  he had flair too. 

A year or 4 in the championship and maybe Newcastle fans will change their mind. 

As to all all the talk of Ashley. Do I think he's a great chairman? Not at all. But, do o think Newcastle would even be as high in the football pyramid with out him? That's a no too.
		
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Unless you can see alternative universe's how can you justify the last paragraph, would City or Chelsea or Man Utd etc be as high if they had different owners? Prior to Ashley Newcastle had CL Football and finished 3rd in the PL, if ever there was a club with potential?
They also have the 9th in the list of trophies won, pretty high in that pyramid!


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 20, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			You have the advantage of not having had that choice. 

Trust me, just because your team aspire to play well, it doesn't mean you get to watch it week in week out when grinding through a season in the championship. 

Whikst i I accept certain styles aren't favourable long term. I still recall allardyce at Bolton and whilst he had no problem upsetting the big teams with anti football,  he had flair too. 

A year or 4 in the championship and maybe Newcastle fans will change their mind. 

As to all all the talk of Ashley. Do I think he's a great chairman? Not at all. But, do o think Newcastle would even be as high in the football pyramid with out him? That's a no too.
		
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All good points, but no matter I doubt I could watch a Pullis team week after week, no matter what division we were in.


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## richy (Nov 20, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			All good points, but no matter I doubt I could watch a Pullis team week after week, no matter what division we were in.
		
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Precisely. Watching football is a hobby that needs to be enjoyed.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 20, 2016)

richy said:



			Precisely. Watching football is a hobby that needs to be enjoyed.
		
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Unlike golf.


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## MegaSteve (Nov 20, 2016)

Much of my family are 'ammers... Asked them this morning if, with their current form, they have a hankering for Big Sam to return... Can't really use their replies on here... But, a resounding no thank you sums them up... Staying in the top level is important but watching good footie prevails for most fans...


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 20, 2016)

Well what has your club stadium held over the years?

Christian crusaders, ex-Beatles, Harlem globetrotters, baseball, tennis, boxing, other clubs winning their first league championship, Rugby world cup finals, England unbeaten in all internationals, Scottish (ghost) hand balls (and drinking competition, by the looks of it), and even Man united home games.......

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...ws/isnt-anfield-liverpools-home-used-12185338


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Hated Ashley?!?! , the same man that came in and turned the club around spending millions of pounds of his own money in the process?

Perhaps Newcastle supporters would love to see the team fall through the leagues but it would be OK as long as they played decent football.

OK Ashley isn't perfect but it's unbelievably  ungrateful and dismissive of Ashley's contribution IMO. Hated? Unbelievable.
		
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That is the expected response of someone who counts the bank balance and stadium as a measure of success in sport


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 20, 2016)

Just come back from watching the Fantastic Beasts film and found it very funny that someone thinks Mike Ashley has made a positive contribution to Newcastle. Really, that is funny &#128513;. Except for Newcastle fans who are still crying &#128546;.

Great post by Paul on the subject, lays it out without the emotion. Throw emotion into the mix and no, he really is not popular or wanted.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Unless you can see alternative universe's how can you justify the last paragraph, would City or Chelsea or Man Utd etc be as high if they had different owners? Prior to Ashley Newcastle had CL Football and finished 3rd in the PL, if ever there was a club with potential?
They also have the 9th in the list of trophies won, pretty high in that pyramid!
		
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I justify the last paragraph as such. 

When he he came in they weren't a cl qualifying team. They were a team who were already in a mess And likely to get Worse. Leeds are a pretty big name and now they're usually happily to settle mid table in the championship. 

Their history and fan base is totally irrelevant. Without Ashley they would have plummeted. I don't recall their being too many over bids to save them. Now they want better, there's nothing wrong with that at all. But this whole convo came because someone had to have a pop and someone who left a year ago. 

My original response was simply that there last manager is still going better than they are....


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## Papas1982 (Nov 20, 2016)

richy said:



			Why does it have to be one or the other?
		
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You can of course want both. 

I want two holdiays abroad each year and to own my own home. Unfortunately I have to forgo the odd holiday to pay the mortgage. 

The point im making is that IMO, if it wasn't for Ashley. Your team would most likely have been lucky to be challenging in the championship. Let alone anything else. 

So whilst I wouldn't expect anyone in Newcastle to build a statue for him. I'd think most would have at least accepted that he helped to keep you stable.


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## richy (Nov 20, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			You can of course want both. 

I want two holdiays abroad each year and to own my own home. Unfortunately I have to forgo the odd holiday to pay the mortgage. 

The point im making is that IMO, if it wasn't for Ashley. Your team would most likely have been lucky to be challenging in the championship. Let alone anything else. 

So whilst I wouldn't expect anyone in Newcastle to build a statue for him. I'd think most would have at least accepted that he helped to keep you stable.
		
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Maybe if you use your crystal ball to get the winning lottery numbers instead of peering into another her dimension where Ashley doesn't buy the club and we plummet, you could have those 2 holidays a year and your house would already be paid off.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 20, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			I justify the last paragraph as such. 

When he he came in they weren't a cl qualifying team. They were a team who were already in a mess And likely to get Worse. Leeds are a pretty big name and now they're usually happily to settle mid table in the championship. 

Their history and fan base is totally irrelevant. Without Ashley they would have plummeted. I don't recall their being too many over bids to save them. Now they want better, there's nothing wrong with that at all. But this whole convo came because someone had to have a pop and someone who left a year ago. 

My original response was simply that there last manager is still going better than they are....
		
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11 managers in 9 years and you claim he's kept them stable, relegated twice in that time? 
I'd happily see Newcastle fail season on season, but genuinely and honestly have seen nothing but turmoil on and off the pitch since he took over, history is irrelevant you say, what has he done then? They are now a championship side, they weren't when he bought them so surely he's took them backwards


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## Papas1982 (Nov 20, 2016)

If you can use hindsight to justify your apparent claims of Pardew I can use mine to suggest that Ashley at the time helped you survive. 

The only u overseas we have is one where he stepped in and saved you. The alternatives are all subjects your imagination not kind. You're the one who thinks you've had a rough deal. 

Feel free to to tell me all about the alternative offers made for your club that would of served you better?


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## Papas1982 (Nov 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			11 managers in 9 years and you claim he's kept them stable, relegated twice in that time? 
I'd happily see Newcastle fail season on season, but genuinely and honestly have seen nothing but turmoil on and off the pitch since he took over, history is irrelevant you say, what has he done then? They are now a championship side, they weren't when he bought them so surely he's took them backwards
		
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When he bought they were broke. Pretty much all teams in that position have suffered relegation. Quite a few have gone a lot lower than just the chamopionship to rebuild. 

Ive never claimed he has been a great success. Just that without the financial input he put in initially I reckon they'd be worse off. 

Re the trnasfer profit they've made over that time. Saints haven't spend a lot in the same time and have had more success. West Ham have soent more and had less. Financial input can't be all that's judged for a level of commitment IMO. 

Ironically last season they spent more than usual and still failed.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 20, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			When he bought they were broke. Pretty much all teams in that position have suffered relegation. Quite a few have gone a lot lower than just the chamopionship to rebuild. 

Ive never claimed he has been a great success. Just that without the financial input he put in initially I reckon they'd be worse off. 

Re the trnasfer profit they've made over that time. Saints haven't spend a lot in the same time and have had more success. West Ham have soent more and had less. Financial input can't be all that's judged for a level of commitment IMO. 

Ironically last season they spent more than usual and still failed.
		
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Not sure why you say they were broke? One of the owners Sir John Hall sold his shares to Ashley and the other owner Shepherd refused to sell, it was only after Ashley bought out minor shareholders and had enough to oust Shepherd as Chairman he agreed to sell his shares. No idea what Soton and West Ham have to do with it, there are good and bad run clubs in every league.
Agree simply spending money for the sake of it is wrong, but we'll see next season when they come back up and if Ashley gives benitez money to strengthen.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Not sure why you say they were broke? One of the owners Sir John Hall sold his shares to Ashley and the other owner Shepherd refused to sell, it was only after Ashley bought out minor shareholders and had enough to oust Shepherd as Chairman he agreed to sell his shares. No idea what Soton and West Ham have to do with it, there are good and bad run clubs in every league.
Agree simply spending money for the sake of it is wrong, but we'll see next season when they come back up and if Ashley gives benitez money to strengthen.
		
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To shepherds credit he didn't want to sell (to Ashley). But according to their own financial report from end of 2006 they were looking to sell and wouldn't invest in recruitment due to financial troubles. 

My point about saints and West Ham was that they're two clubs that in recent times have had financial hardship and have gone about things differently with similar results. 

Id imagine if Rafa is given 70m like was spemt by Newcastle the year of their relegation he'd do well. But it's all just pie in the sky ATM. i actually like Newcastle. Always a good night out with the footy. 

I just think semtimes times it's better the devil you know.


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## richy (Nov 20, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			To shepherds credit he didn't want to sell (to Ashley). But according to their own financial report from end of 2006 they were looking to sell and wouldn't invest in recruitment due to financial troubles. 

My point about saints and West Ham was that they're two clubs that in recent times have had financial hardship and have gone about things differently with similar results. 

Id imagine if Rafa is given 70m like was spemt by Newcastle the year of their relegation he'd do well. But it's all just pie in the sky ATM. i actually like Newcastle. Always a good night out with the footy. 

I just think semtimes times it's better the devil you know.
		
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The amount you spend doesn't really matter, it's how you spend it that counts. 

Ashley allowed Graham Carr to dictate the signing and most of them were terrible. Another reason why Ashley is dislike. He tried to buy on the cheap to sell on without actually buying anybody decent.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 20, 2016)

Come on boro......just need Costa (my captain) to get a hat-trick, all set up by Hazard, and Gibson scoring four for Boro to keep my team top of the GM monthly fantasy league......and miles ahead of Stu C.


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## sawtooth (Nov 20, 2016)

This is a joke isn't it? Ashley took over a mess and now the club are financially stable.

It's not really Ashley's fault that managers have come in and have been disappointing. He has top coach now with Rafa and he must have said a lot of the right things to him to make him want to stay despite being in the championship.

Fickle fans looking at the here and now rather than the big picture. In 5, 10, 15, years from now you will most likely look back and see how beneficial it was to have someone like Ashley come in and sort the club out.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 20, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			To shepherds credit he didn't want to sell (to Ashley). But according to their own financial report from end of 2006 they were looking to sell and wouldn't invest in recruitment due to financial troubles. 

My point about saints and West Ham was that they're two clubs that in recent times have had financial hardship and have gone about things differently with similar results. 

Id imagine if Rafa is given 70m like was spemt by Newcastle the year of their relegation he'd do well. But it's all just pie in the sky ATM. i actually like Newcastle. Always a good night out with the footy. 

I just think semtimes times it's better the devil you know.
		
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Rafa has spent 55mil and they've sold players for 85Mil, including Wijnaldum who cost 14.5, part  of the 70 you mention, for 25, Sissoko cost 2.5 sold for 30, the fans aren't seeing the big money reinvested, they see in recent years a big turnover in squad with players bought cheap and sold big, great business model but not the model for a great football team.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			This is a joke isn't it? Ashley took over a mess and now the club are financially stable.

It's not really Ashley's fault that managers have come in and have been disappointing. He has top coach now with Rafa and he must have said a lot of the right things to him to make him want to stay despite being in the championship.

Fickle fans looking at the here and now rather than the big picture. In 5, 10, 15, years from now you will most likely look back and see how beneficial it was to have someone like Ashley come in and sort the club out.
		
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Just keeping posting nonsense rather than answering the vaild facts put to you.

11 managers in 9 years and it's not ashleys fault :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			This is a joke isn't it? Ashley took over a mess and now the club are financially stable.

It's not really Ashley's fault that managers have come in and have been disappointing. He has top coach now with Rafa and he must have said a lot of the right things to him to make him want to stay despite being in the championship.

Fickle fans looking at the here and now rather than the big picture. In 5, 10, 15, years from now you will most likely look back and see how beneficial it was to have someone like Ashley come in and sort the club out.
		
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http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/mike-ashley-nine-years-newcastle-7951146

Yep they are financially stable as he has sold players for profit and kept it in his pocket as the club has been relegated.

Only Wenger Arsenal fans look at a balance sheet as a measure of success- they were a Prem team which gained Europeans football before Ashley arrived - they are now a Championship team - in the 9 years on the pitch they have gone backwards


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## richy (Nov 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Just keeping posting nonsense rather than answering the vaild facts put to you.

11 managers in 9 years and it's not ashleys fault :rofl:
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/mike-ashley-nine-years-newcastle-7951146

Yep they are financially stable as he has sold players for profit and kept it in his pocket as the club has been relegated.

Only Wenger Arsenal fans look at a balance sheet as a measure of success- they were a Prem team which gained Europeans football before Ashley arrived - they are now a Championship team - in the 9 years on the pitch they have gone backwards
		
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He'll just ignore the factual points being made and keep coming back with nonsense. 

Typical Wengerite


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 20, 2016)

Great reaction from Costa there.


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## Fish (Nov 20, 2016)

Boro have worked hard tbf but give that man a sniff and we'll break your hearts 

Top of the league &#128526;


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## sawtooth (Nov 20, 2016)

richy said:



			He'll just ignore the factual points being made and keep coming back with nonsense. 

Typical Wengerite
		
Click to expand...

Keep moaning about Ashley if it makes you feel better but without his intervention you could well have gone down the same road as Portsmouth.

As it is you will be most likely be back in the big time next year with a top coach and money to spend.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Keep moaning about Ashley if it makes you feel better but without his intervention you could well have gone down the same road as Portsmouth.

As it is you will be most likely be back in the big time next year with a top coach and money to spend.
		
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Money to spend ? It appears facts are not a strong point - Newcastle under Ashley don't spend money - they make a profit , they buy players cheap and then look to sell them on for a profit with that profit not going to the manager to replace the players. Why are you ignoring the clear facts of the last decade


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## richy (Nov 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Keep moaning about Ashley if it makes you feel better but without his intervention you could well have gone down the same road as Portsmouth.

As it is you will be most likely be back in the big time next year with a top coach and money to spend.
		
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We could have been but it's all if's buts and maybes. 

Yes it looks like we'll be back. Maybe it's all been a blessing in disguise as Ashley now realises he can't to things on the cheap and employ poor managers.


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## Fish (Nov 20, 2016)

I'm noticing more and more shirts having the Christian name of the player on and not his surname, how long has this been allowed, will we start to see Steve, Dave & Bill on the backs soon &#129300;


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			This is a joke isn't it? Ashley took over a mess and now the club are financially stable.

It's not really Ashley's fault that managers have come in and have been disappointing. He has top coach now with Rafa and he must have said a lot of the right things to him to make him want to stay despite being in the championship.

Fickle fans looking at the here and now rather than the big picture. In 5, 10, 15, years from now you will most likely look back and see how beneficial it was to have someone like Ashley come in and sort the club out.
		
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I can see the opposite to this in every single word.
They have looked at the bigger picture, as Ashley has been there for 10 years and he has totally mis-managed a decline.

52,000 - fickle? You couldnt make it up.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 20, 2016)

Chelsea top and another clean sheet. They may not be banging too many in at the other end but they are rolling along nicely. Even Costa has stopped spoiling for a fight every two minutes although he does still fall over in the slightest breeze


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 20, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Chelsea top and another clean sheet. They may not be banging too many in at the other end but they are rolling along nicely. *Even Costa has stopped spoiling for a fight every two minutes although he does still fall over in the slightest breeze*

Click to expand...

Plenty worse examples of that from the opposition this afternoon but that doesn't get a mentionâ€¦â€¦â€¦.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 20, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Plenty worse examples of that from the opposition this afternoon but that doesn't get a mentionâ€¦â€¦â€¦. 

Click to expand...

I saw the game and agree with you that there were other players in red doing the same thing. It's a disease in the game and nothing seems to be done to change it in any way


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 20, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I saw the game and agree with you that there were other players in red doing the same thing. It's a disease in the game and nothing seems to be done to change it in any way
		
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Well passing it off as only the one player doing it hardly helps the situation does it?


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## fundy (Nov 20, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Well passing it off as only the one player doing it hardly helps the situation does it? 

Click to expand...

and defending the worst culprit over the last couple of years does?


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 20, 2016)

fundy said:



			and defending the worst culprit over the last couple of years does?
		
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And where in that exchange have I defended him?  I've actually openly criticised his behaviour on here in other posts.  All I did on this occasion was ask why he was being singled out when there were plenty of other examples from the opposition, a point that Homer then agreed with.  I don't consider pointing out the fact that he isn't the only culprit to be defending him.


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## fundy (Nov 20, 2016)

fair enough, just hate the "well theyre all doing it" explanation for what is one of the biggest blights on the game, if youre gonna criticise him criticise him


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 20, 2016)

fundy said:



			fair enough, just hate the "well theyre all doing it" explanation for what is one of the biggest blights on the game, if youre gonna criticise him criticise him
		
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I wasn't using it to justify his behaviour, I was simply asking why pick on him when others were worse than him; I'm actually struggling to think of when he did that this afternoon.    

Granted that the dog has given himself a bad name in this particular aspect of his play so only has himself to blame, but to then excuse everyone else on basis that it's Costa is as bad in my opinion as the accusation that I'm excusing him by blaming everyone else.  I'm not.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 20, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			I wasn't using it to justify his behaviour, I was simply asking why pick on him when others were worse than him; I'm actually struggling to think of when he did that this afternoon.    

Granted that the dog has given himself a bad name in this particular aspect of his play so only has himself to blame, but to then excuse everyone else on basis that it's Costa is as bad in my opinion as the accusation that I'm excusing him by blaming everyone else.  I'm not.
		
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I couldn't recall any dives or simulation from Costa today , can only remember the left back going down a bit early , and just remember the one Boro player who went down a bit quickly 

It was good game , Boro played well but Chelsea did what was needed - could have scored the goal of the season 

Quite surprised that after a decent game with no real ( if any ) contraversial incidents that the talk is about diving ?!


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## sawtooth (Nov 20, 2016)

I thought the tackle from Fonte on Coutinho in the box was a sronewall penalty Saturday. However the challenge came after Coutinho got his shot away. 

Ball was still in play just curious why is wasn't awarded. A foul is a foul is it not? regardless if attacker has ball under control or not.


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## Slime (Nov 20, 2016)

Fish said:



			I'm noticing more and more shirts having the Christian name of the player on and not his surname, how long has this been allowed, will we start to see Steve, Dave & Bill on the backs soon &#63764;
		
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Many moons ago I was at Old Trafford to see United wallop Barnsley 7-0 and Jordi Cruyff just has Jordi on the back of his shirt, but in his case it was merely because of who his father was.
That was back in '97, so it's been going on for a while now.


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## richart (Nov 20, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Plenty worse examples of that from the opposition this afternoon but that doesn't get a mentionâ€¦â€¦â€¦. 

Click to expand...

 because nobody other than Chelsea fans can stand Costa.:ears: He is like a pantomine villain, so stop ruining our fun, and let us hate him.:thup:


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## Fish (Nov 21, 2016)

richart said:



			because nobody other than Chelsea fans can stand Costa.:ears: He is like a pantomine villain, so stop ruining our fun, and let us hate him.:thup:
		
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Oi, get back in the cheap Championship seats....:smirk:


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 21, 2016)

It appears Pardew is no longer the best then 

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38040858


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## richy (Nov 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It appears Pardew is no longer the best then 

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38040858

Click to expand...

Well, well, well.......

Where are all the numptys wanting him as the next England manager now?


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## richart (Nov 21, 2016)

Fish said:



			Oi, get back in the cheap Championship seats....:smirk:
		
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I am warming up for when we are back in the big boys league next season.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 22, 2016)

Some game in Dortmund, 7 goals in first half hour!


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 22, 2016)

Leicester looking like they are in the knock out stages.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 22, 2016)

Watching Leicester,what an amazing achievement carrying on from their title.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 22, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Watching Leicester,what an amazing achievement carrying on from their title.
		
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Started with the Leicester match then flicked over at 20 minutes when Dortmund went 2-1 up, next 10 minutes was daft&#128515;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 22, 2016)

Another 2 goals in 10 minutes, 6-3, great defending.........not&#128515;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 22, 2016)

Finished 8-4 a CL record, also had 4 goals disallowed between them. Unreal to watch :rofl:


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## pokerjoke (Nov 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Finished 8-4 a CL record, also had 4 goals disallowed between them. Unreal to watch :rofl:
		
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Will have to watch the highlights as I wanted to see Leicester get the job done,does sound a cracker.

The real comp is on Thursday though


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 22, 2016)

Leicester top the group. Unbelievable Jeff. Just need to find this form in the PL


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## GG26 (Nov 22, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Leicester top the group. Unbelievable Jeff. Just need to find this form in the PL
		
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I was at the King Power, the second half was the worst football I've seen them play in three seasons - its a team playing with no confidence and once Bruges got one back they started to panic.  I am starting to get a little worried about the Premier League now, especially if we lose against Middlesborough on Saturday.

Still enjoying the Champions League though


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## sawtooth (Nov 22, 2016)

Spurs out but no disgrace, never going to be easy playing at Wembley and despite what many might think their group wasn't easy with Monaco and Leverkeusen.

They will probably hope to finish last to avoid the dreaded Europa cup.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 23, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Spurs out but no disgrace, never going to be easy playing at Wembley and despite what many might think their group wasn't easy with Monaco and Leverkeusen.

They will probably hope to finish last to avoid the dreaded Europa cup.
		
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Lets hope they don't get to the FA cup final then.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 23, 2016)

Not sure which game to watch tonight, flicking between all 3 at the moment&#128515;


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 23, 2016)

Was enjoying the quality of the Arsenal v PSG game until HID rudely grabbed the remote and stuck Masterchef on. Missed the penalty! Words have been exchanged


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## garyinderry (Nov 23, 2016)

Arsenal poor.   lucky to get a pen imho.   one of those where he feels a touch and goes down.   

I'd call it a dive to be honest.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 23, 2016)

Lucky second for Arsenal but Arsene will take that


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## sawtooth (Nov 23, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Lucky second for Arsenal but Arsene will take that
		
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PSG are one of the best sides in Europe and sometimes you need a bit of luck.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 23, 2016)

There is a saying at City " typical City" Fernandinho getting sent off in essence 10 v 10 typifies that.
But what the sending off was for I will never know. Absolute Rammel by the ref.


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## garyinderry (Nov 23, 2016)

Lovely dive from cavani


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## sawtooth (Nov 23, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			Lovely dive from cavani
		
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It seems that these refs don't know how to book for simulation.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 23, 2016)

A second place finish by the look of it for Arsenal unless there is a turn up in the PSG game. City second too. I can't see the draw being too kind to either.


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## Slime (Nov 23, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			PSG are one of the best sides in Europe and *sometimes you need a bit of luck.*

Click to expand...

I thought Arsene used up a fair chunk of his last weekend against United!
I mean, how much luck canm one team get?


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## pokerjoke (Nov 24, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Was enjoying the quality of the Arsenal v PSG game until HID rudely grabbed the remote and stuck Masterchef on. Missed the penalty! Words have been exchanged
		
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Did the conversation go something like this

H-hey I was watching that

MH-so

H-cant you watch MS on I-player tomorrow

MH no,why don't you go on the forum and boost your post count.

H- I would but ive got nothing important to say

MH-go on the pointless Word Association 2 thread then and get it up that way then.

H-oh alright then you win.

Only bants Homer:ears:


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 24, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Did the conversation go something like this

H-hey I was watching that

MH-so

H-cant you watch MS on I-player tomorrow

MH no,why don't you go on the forum and boost your post count.

H- I would but ive got nothing important to say

MH-go on the pointless Word Association 2 thread then and get it up that way then.

H-oh alright then you win.

Only bants Homer:ears:
		
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Close but you missed out her anglo saxon language when I made a sneaky dart to check the scores in the middle of the first skills test. Other than that I couldn't comment less I increase my post count.......ooops!


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 24, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			A second place finish by the look of it for Arsenal unless there is a turn up in the PSG game. City second too. I can't see the draw being too kind to either.
		
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Does it really matter that much?  It's not like there's a really soft draw in the last 16, and IIRC winning the group means you play the second leg at home which in my experience isn't always beneficial.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 24, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Does it really matter that much?  It's not like there's a really soft draw in the last 16, and IIRC winning the group means you play the second leg at home which in my experience isn't always beneficial.
		
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Thonk they mentioned last night that approx 80% of semis and finals are made from group winners. 

Of course thats probably because better teams win groups. Not just get easy draws.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 24, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Does it really matter that much?  It's not like there's a really soft draw in the last 16, and IIRC winning the group means you play the second leg at home which in my experience isn't always beneficial.
		
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And this year with Bayern Munich, and possibly Real Madrid and even Juve, finishing 2nd in their groups winning the group isn't going to guarantee you an easier draw. 

But having said that didn't Arsenal get the easier draw last time when they got Monaco, who were supposedly the weakest team they could have drawn, and we know how that ended up.


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## fundy (Nov 24, 2016)

Arsenal been very poor in both games against PSG, outplayed on both occasions and the amount of good chances Cavani missed well into double figures. No signs of any improvement when playing better sides, same issues still rearing their head. No doubt some will see no issues in these 2 games but for me they show exactly where Arsenal are at, which is pretty much where theyve been for years.

And still Coquelin starts lol, kicks people for half an hour, gets booked then scared to make another tackle for the rest of the game. Game after game Arsenal second best in midfield of late, Cazorla missing certainly doesnt help on that either


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 24, 2016)

Decent result for Manure and hopefully see them and Saints through to next round.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 24, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Does it really matter that much?  It's not like there's a really soft draw in the last 16, and IIRC winning the group means you play the second leg at home which in my experience isn't always beneficial.
		
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It mentioned it on TS last night and I think it was something like 70 or 80 something % of the group winners normally go through in the next round of 16.

OK, most times Barca, Real etc will finish top and generally normally get through to the semis/finals in the last few years, but overall still a high percentage. Ok Arsenal always going out then will also skew the percentages.....

Edit:just seen Papas post.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2016)

So City and Liverpool get their 3 points and i expect Chelsea to gain 3 points as well which would mean a little gap starting to form between the top 3 - maybe a sign of the season ahead

As for the MOTD going to be a cracker with the Palace Swansea game


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## Hobbit (Nov 26, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So City and Liverpool get their 3 points and i expect Chelsea to gain 3 points as well which would mean a little gap starting to form between the top 3 - maybe a sign of the season ahead

As for the MOTD going to be a cracker with the Palace Swansea game
		
Click to expand...

I'll skip the Boro match. A 94th min penalty to Leicester spoilt the day.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 26, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As for the MOTD going to be a cracker with the Palace Swansea game
		
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Can someone check on Chrisd to make sure he's ok. Maybe take away his belt and shoelaces just as a precaution.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So City and Liverpool get their 3 points and i expect Chelsea to gain 3 points as well which would mean a little gap starting to form between the top 3 - maybe a sign of the season ahead
		
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Unless Arsenal win tomorrow and it's as you were.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Unless Arsenal win tomorrow and it's as you were.
		
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Do Arsenal win in November ?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do Arsenal win in November ?
		
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I'll leave it there, obviously looking to wind the Arsenal fans up. :thup:


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 26, 2016)

Some game at the Liberty Stadium. Will be worth watching and hoping it's the Sky match of day and shown in full.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I'll leave it there, obviously looking to wind the Arsenal fans up. :thup:
		
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Or it's just actually statistically their worst month and very well known 

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...-worst-month-in-arsene-wenger-era-is-november


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 26, 2016)

So two draws against potential top four rivals and a home game they should win tomorrow. Add in a win and draw in th CL and that's a shocking November isn't it


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or it's just actually statistically their worst month and very well known 

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...-worst-month-in-arsene-wenger-era-is-november

Click to expand...

Just remember, you reap what you sow :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Just remember, you reap what you sow :thup:
		
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What are you going on about ?


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## Papas1982 (Nov 26, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What are you going on about ?
		
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Well when people start commenting that Liverpool will screw up and fluff the league. You can't argue it, as statistically it's true. 

Something along those lines I'd imagine.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Well when people start commenting that Liverpool will screw up and fluff the league. You can't argue it, *as statistically it's true. *

Something along those lines I'd imagine.
		
Click to expand...

Is it ? Or is that a valid statement for every single club who don't win the league ?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is it ? Or is that a valid statement for every single club who don't win the league ?
		
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Is it a valid statement that Arsenal don't win in november or statistically it was a bad month for them and you were on a fishing trip?


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 26, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Is it a valid statement that Arsenal don't win in november or statistically it was a bad month for them and you were on a fishing trip?
		
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Not valid this November for sure with two draws agaist United and Spurs, an away win and draw against a strong side in PSG in the CL. Bournemouth tomorrow should be a home win banker and will that not make it an unbeaten November? Terrible month


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Is it a valid statement that Arsenal don't win in november or statistically it was a bad month for them and you were on a fishing trip?
		
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Of course It's a valid statement when it's common knowledge to even their manager that the club struggle in November and have done regularly over the years - and right now they have dropped 4 points out of 6 in the league 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mi...senal-boss-arsene-wenger-solution-9336135.amp

Same as saying that their CL season is normally over in Feb 

Not all posts are aimed on stirring - that may come as a surprise to you I know


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## Papas1982 (Nov 26, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is it ? Or is that a valid statement for every single club who don't win the league ?
		
Click to expand...

It being true for other clubs doesn't make it less of an accurate ststement re liverpool.

I was merely pointing out what could be aimed at you, in regards to reaping what you so.

That said, of all the teams with realistic aims to win a title, i'd say its only Liverpool (maybe include Newcastle) that have failed as such in recent history.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 26, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not valid this November for sure with two draws agaist United and Spurs, an away win and draw against a strong side in PSG in the CL. Bournemouth tomorrow should be a home win banker and will that not make it an unbeaten November? Terrible month
		
Click to expand...

The article Phil linked was purely based on points accumulated, opposition is irrelevant as i'm sure they have had tough opponents in other months too in that example. But if Bmouth are the banker and then they beat saints, that'll be 13points in 7 games at an avaerage of 1.857 points.

Making, and wait for it as its hard to say 

Phil's statement factually correct.

And if they do slip up, it could be as low as a point game!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Of course It's a valid statement when it's common knowledge to even their manager that the club struggle in November and have done regularly over the years - and right now they have dropped 4 points out of 6 in the league 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mi...senal-boss-arsene-wenger-solution-9336135.amp

Same as saying that their CL season is normally over in Feb 

Not all posts are aimed on stirring - that may come as a surprise to you I know
		
Click to expand...

Provide as many links as you like, you know with your football knowledge that first post about 3 teams opening up a gap before all the weekends fixtures have been played is either nonsense or a fishing trip.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Provide as many links as you like, you know with your football knowledge that first post about 3 teams opening up a gap before all the weekends fixtures have been played is either nonsense or a fishing trip.
		
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It was neither nonsense or a fishing trip - stop looking for an angle 

It was a comment based on the results of today's games and even a comment that have heard the commentators say today in regards a three way battle.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was neither nonsense or a fishing trip - stop looking for an angle 

It was a comment based on the results of today's games and even a comment that have heard the commentators say today in regards a three way battle.
		
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:thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 27, 2016)

I actually thought Mike Jones was no longer a Prem Ref as he is that shocking but nope there he is continuing to get paid for being even worse than Uriah Rennie !! Shocking ref


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 27, 2016)

Arsenal did enough but didn't look great. Top four starting to take shape so Everton could really do with a win to keep in touch as do Man United who are only drawing at home.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 27, 2016)

Lucky to be only 1 down at HT, hopefully won't play as bad second half.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 27, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Lucky to be only 1 down at HT, hopefully won't play as bad second half.
		
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Not your best 45 minutes this season. Look a little sluggish and short of ideas. Hoping the second half will pick up to watch


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## MegaSteve (Nov 27, 2016)

The day folk cease raising the alleged 'shortcomings' of the Gunners is the day I'll acknowledge the club is maybe in decline...


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## Tashyboy (Nov 27, 2016)

Looks like Maureen has first dibs on the best shower again.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 27, 2016)

Saints unlucky not to win by 3 or 4, something not right at Everton at the moment, another awful display.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 27, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Saints unlucky not to win by 3 or 4, something not right at Everton at the moment, another awful display.
		
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I think koeman will come good. 

What i I wouldn't give for another decent striker. Might take sturridge as a paperweight next summer when Liverpool di their usual shopping visit.


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## Fish (Nov 27, 2016)

Manure will be lucky to hold on to or secure a top 6 place imo, but hey, there are some deluded gurners that think they'll rise like a salmon and swap places with a failing Chelsea &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;

If there's are a swap to be had it will be with Arsenal as they are far from convincing and luck can only last so long &#129300;

There's some gaps now clearly being made, it will be interesting over Christmas when the fixtures come quick & fast what squads can handle that congestion better!


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## Fish (Nov 27, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Saints unlucky not to win by 3 or 4, something not right at Everton at the moment, another awful display.
		
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Let's hope yours and Bournemouths fortunes change next Sunday &#128540;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 27, 2016)

Fish said:



			Let's hope yours and Bournemouths fortunes change next Sunday &#128540;
		
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We need something to change! &#128515;


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 27, 2016)

Can anyone really still see Man Utd getting into the Top 4 ?

Now 11 points behind one team they were supposed to replace and ten points behind the other team ? Struggling to get a string of wins together , struggling to figure out the best 11 and struggling to keep the manager on the sidelines 

The gap is starting to form and right now it's hard to see the top 4 changing over the season - what happens with Coutinho will be crucial for us . Xmas will be a big time


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 27, 2016)

Already had a bet with Sawtooth for H4H. No way are they a top four side and you have to wonder how long Jose will be given especially as he'll no doubt buy again in January and again in the summer (if he's still in post by then)


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## sawtooth (Nov 27, 2016)

Fish said:



			Manure will be lucky to hold on to or secure a top 6 place imo, but hey, there are some deluded gurners that think they'll rise like a salmon and swap places with a failing Chelsea &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;

If there's are a swap to be had it will be with Arsenal as they are far from convincing and luck can only last so long &#129300;

There's some gaps now clearly being made, it will be interesting over Christmas when the fixtures come quick & fast what squads can handle that congestion better!
		
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Way too early to crown Chelsea champions and say that Utd will finish outside top 6.

I'm just pleased that Wenger doesn't read this forum , if he did we would have Martial, Schneiderlin, Vardy and God knows who else in our squad.

Very happy with Arsenal at the moment, not playing our best but still grinding out results. You know what they say about a team that does that don't you?

I think Fish that you are a bit insecure and you keep saying Arsenal will fall outside top 4 doesn't make it more likely to happen you know.

Mourinho is a cheque book manager and he needs to buy more ready made good quality players to replace the dross in that side. Give him another window and he will buy big again.


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## Fish (Nov 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Way too early to crown Chelsea champions and say that Utd will finish outside top 6.

I'm just pleased that Wenger doesn't read this forum , if he did we would have Martial, Schneiderlin, Vardy and God knows who else in our squad.

Very happy with Arsenal at the moment, not playing our best but still grinding out results. You know what they say about a team that does that don't you?

I think Fish that you are a bit insecure and you keep saying Arsenal will fall outside top 4 doesn't make it more likely to happen you know.

Mourinho is a cheque book manager and he needs to buy more ready made good quality players to replace the dross in that side. Give him another window and he will buy big again.
		
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Where have I crowned or even suggested we are or will be champions? 

You'll finish 4th at best, manure will be 6th at best, the gaps are already forming, some might say it's only 2 or 3 matches as a variable, but that's expecting those above to lose thise games also, and yet there above them because of, erm, consistency! 

Big weekend for everyone next week, London derby, 1st Vs 3rd and everyone else away except Spurs, so a bit of shuffling could be on the cards for the top 4, but, manure & spurs cant go up any places and can only hang on a little, but for how long?


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## richart (Nov 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Way too early to crown Chelsea champions and say that Utd will finish outside top 6.

I'm just pleased that Wenger doesn't read this forum , if he did we would have Martial, Schneiderlin, Vardy and God knows who else in our squad.

Very happy with Arsenal at the moment, not playing our best but still grinding out results. You know what they say about a team that does that don't you?

I think Fish that you are a bit insecure and you keep saying Arsenal will fall outside top 4 doesn't make it more likely to happen you know.

Mourinho is a cheque book manager and he needs to buy more ready made good quality players to replace the dross in that side. Give him another window and he will buy big again.
		
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 I thought Arsenal wanted Vardy and he turned them down ?


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## Fish (Nov 27, 2016)

richart said:



			I thought Arsenal wanted Vardy and he turned them down ?

Click to expand...

&#128077;&#128540;&#128526;


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Way too early to crown Chelsea champions and say that Utd will finish outside top 6.

I'm just pleased that Wenger doesn't read this forum , if he did we would have Martial, Schneiderlin, Vardy and God knows who else in our squad.

Very happy with Arsenal at the moment, not playing our best but still grinding out results. You know what they say about a team that does that don't you?

I think Fish that you are a bit insecure and you keep saying Arsenal will fall outside top 4 doesn't make it more likely to happen you know.

Mourinho is a cheque book manager and he needs to buy more ready made good quality players to replace the dross in that side. Give him another window and he will buy big again.
		
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Didnt Wenger go for both Vardy and Martial ? 

Vardy turned them down as well and decided Martial was too expensive and certainly wouldn't  judge Martial when he is being managed by a manager who struggles to get the best out of young and upcoming talent - look at Rashford as well - it's why he buys the established players 

Bit of a helping hand from the ref today for Arsenal today helps

Do you really think Man Utd will replace Liverpool or Chelsea with both along with City looking the teams to beat this year.


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## sawtooth (Nov 27, 2016)

richart said:



			I thought Arsenal wanted Vardy and he turned them down AT THE MONEY WE WANTED TO PAY?

Click to expand...

Filled in the all important detail that you left out Richard. Truth is that he wasn't worth a penny more and he is kind of showing us why now. Same applies to Schneiderlin, Martial and probably Stones too. Some players are just not worth breaking the bank for.

In Wenger we trust.


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## sawtooth (Nov 27, 2016)

Fish said:



			Where have I crowned or even suggested we are or will be champions? 

You'll finish 4th at best, manure will be 6th at best, the gaps are already forming, some might say it's only 2 or 3 matches as a variable, but that's expecting those above to lose thise games also, and yet there above them because of, erm, consistency! 

Big weekend for everyone next week, London derby, 1st Vs 3rd and everyone else away except Spurs, so a bit of shuffling could be on the cards for the top 4, but, manure & spurs cant go up any places and can only hang on a little, but for how long?
		
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Where did I say that you said that?


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## Fish (Nov 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Filled in the all important detail that you left out Richard. Truth is that he wasn't worth a penny more and he is kind of showing us why now. Same applies to Schneiderlin, Martial and probably Stones too. Some players are just not worth breaking the bank for.

*In Wenger we trust*.
		
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and long may that continue as you are not and won't be contenders currently whilst he's still in the post.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 27, 2016)

Everton badly need a second striker. No back up for when Lukaku has an off day or when we need a boost with 20 minutes to go. It was clear last year, even more obvious this year.

Maureen's stock just keeps dropping. I thought when van Gaal left Utd would bounce back but Mo is currently out doing him. Well done Agent Mo &#128588;


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## Fish (Nov 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Where did I say that you said that?
		
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sawtooth said:



			Way too early to crown Chelsea champions
		
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Think that answers that....


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## sawtooth (Nov 27, 2016)

Fish said:



			Think that answers that....
		
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No it doesn't, I was just saying that it's too early to crown Chelsea as champions. That's not quoting you.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Filled in the all important detail that you left out Richard. Truth is that he wasn't worth a penny more and he is kind of showing us why now. Same applies to Schneiderlin, Martial and probably Stones too. Some players are just not worth breaking the bank for.

In Wenger we trust.
		
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Vardy signed a contract with Leicester at the same wage that he would have got at Arsenal - both offered the 100k a year and he picked Leicester. 

Your original comments suggested that Wenger wasn't after the players but he was after them and attempted to buy them


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## Fish (Nov 27, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Everton badly need a second striker. No back up for when Lukaku has an off day or when we need a boost with 20 minutes to go. It was clear last year, even more obvious this year.

Maureen's stock just keeps dropping. I thought when van Gaal left Utd would bounce back but Mo is currently out doing him. Well done Agent Mo &#128588;
		
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Manchester United after 13 games:

- Moyes: 22 points 

- Van Gaal: 22 points

- Mourinho: 20 points


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## Fish (Nov 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			No it doesn't, I was just saying that it's too early to crown Chelsea as champions. That's not quoting you.
		
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But nobody was crowning them champions so why make that comment?

#Fishing


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## Stuart_C (Nov 27, 2016)

Fish said:



			Where have I crowned or even suggested we are or will be champions? 

*You'll finish 4th at best, manure will be 6th at best, the gaps are already forming, some might say it's only 2 or 3 matches as a variable, but that's expecting those above to lose thise games also, and yet there above them because of, erm, consistency! *

Big weekend for everyone next week, London derby, 1st Vs 3rd and everyone else away except Spurs, so a bit of shuffling could be on the cards for the top 4, but, manure & spurs cant go up any places and can only hang on a little, but for how long?
		
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Where will we finish then mystic peg?


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 27, 2016)

Fish said:



			Manchester United after 13 games:

- Moyes: 22 points 

- Van Gaal: 22 points

- Mourinho: 20 points
		
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It's just funny. They are so dull. I suspect they could handle it if they played like Liverpool but couldn't win. As it is they've spent a fortune and they are still going sideways and backwards.

My cousin is a Utd fan and it is agonising for him. He hates Mo, hates how they are playing, loves his team. I'd almost feel sorry for him but he had 20 years of gloating so I'm going to enjoy it for a bit longer.


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## Fish (Nov 27, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Where will we finish then mystic peg?

Click to expand...

Depends if you strengthen in January or suffer any more injuries to a weak squad compared to those around you.  Also PSG coming for  Lalanna for Â£40m could weaken you even more, unless you buy well !

Did you get my pm from a couple of weeks back?


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## fundy (Nov 27, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Didnt Wenger go for both Vardy and Martial ? 

Vardy turned them down as well and decided Martial was too expensive and certainly wouldn't  judge Martial when he is being managed by a manager who struggles to get the best out of young and upcoming talent - look at Rashford as well - it's why he buys the established players 

*Bit of a helping hand from the ref today for Arsenal today helps*

Do you really think Man Utd will replace Liverpool or Chelsea with both along with City looking the teams to beat this year.
		
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lol, ref was truly awful, but to say he helped Arsenal over the course of the game is laughable


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## Fish (Nov 27, 2016)

fundy said:



			lol, ref was truly awful, but to say he helped Arsenal over the course of the game is laughable
		
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Was the handball not a pen &#129300;


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## sawtooth (Nov 27, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Vardy signed a contract with Leicester at the same wage that he would have got at Arsenal - both offered the 100k a year and he picked Leicester. 

Your original comments suggested that Wenger wasn't after the players but he was after them and attempted to buy them
		
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No, it's common knowledge Wenger was after the player. His didnt see value in offering more than what he offered, which in hindsight was the right call.


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## Hobbit (Nov 27, 2016)

If anyone breaks into the top 4 it will be a stuttering Spurs finding some of the form they showed last season. For me its between Chelsea and City for the league. Asking Liverpool to maintain that intensity as the pitches get heavier and injuries start to bite is a stretch. Arsenal finishing above 4th, maybe 3rd, will depend on others faltering, like last season. 

As for Utd, 5th or 10th or anywhere in between. They're just about punching their current weight. They have the right manager but its a poor Utd squad. Kids bought, or brought through the academy, being asked to perform at a consistently high level, and too many of them in the team. Has-beens chosen on fading abilities and reputations.


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## fundy (Nov 27, 2016)

Fish said:



			Was the handball not a pen &#129300;
		
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was the foul on sanchez on the edge of the box not a foul, was the penalty given a penalty?


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## sawtooth (Nov 27, 2016)

Fish said:



			But nobody was crowning them champions so why make that comment?

#Fishing
		
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Because they're currently top.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 27, 2016)

fundy said:



			lol, ref was truly awful, but to say he helped Arsenal over the course of the game is laughable
		
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The handball against Monreal was a clear penalty , was it Mustafi with the clear push in the box ? Two crucial desicions that went Arsenal's way


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 27, 2016)

Fish said:



			Was the handball not a pen &#129300;
		
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No, his arms were already in that position and the ball hit them, there was no movement of arms towards the ball.


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## sawtooth (Nov 27, 2016)

Fish said:



			Was the handball not a pen &#129300;
		
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I watched the game and only saw the  ballhand. When did the handball happen?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 27, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The handball against Monreal was a clear penalty , was it Mustafi with the clear push in the box ? Two crucial desicions that went Arsenal's way
		
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A clear push picked up 1-2 minutes later on TV, come on, every team gets away with fouls in the box.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 27, 2016)

Fish said:



			Depends if you strengthen in January or suffer any more injuries to a weak squad compared to those around you.  Also PSG coming for  Lalanna for Â£40m could weaken you even more, unless you buy well !

Did you get my pm from a couple of weeks back?
		
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Didn't you say 7th at best in July?

No mate. 

I've not had chance to get on for a while, resend it and I'll reply.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			No, it's common knowledge Wenger was after the player. His didnt see value in offering more than what he offered, which in hindsight was the right call.
		
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He wasn't just after the player - Wenger activated the release clause - you spent days celebrating Vardy arriving at Arsenal with him being a player to propel you to winning the league - and then Vardy turned you down, nothing to do with money.


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## sawtooth (Nov 27, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He wasn't just after the player - Wenger activated the release clause - you spent days celebrating Vardy arriving at Arsenal with him being a player to propel you to winning the league - and then Vardy turned you down, nothing to do with money.
		
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Yes we know Vardy turned us down but Wenger didn't exactly bend over backwards to get him.

What was it ? Â£20M? 

Wenger has a valuation for a player and doesnt go above it and you can see why. Very easy to get caught up in a bidding war and before you know it you have mediocrity at a huge price. No thanks.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yes we know Vardy turned us down but Wenger didn't exactly bend over backwards to get him.

What was it ? Â£20M? 

Wenger has a valuation for a player and doesnt go above it and you can see why. Very easy to get caught up in a bidding war and before you know it you have mediocrity at a huge price. No thanks.
		
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Â£20m was the release clause - as soon as that was met then Arsenal were free to talk to Vardy - why does he need to go higher or get into a bidding war when the player has a release clause ?!! I'm not sure you have thought this through

As for Wenger and his bidding wars - only have to go back to his embarrassing Suarez Â£40mil and 1 pound bid ! He could have got Suarez if he had been serious enough and now he is prob the third best player in the world - bet Wenger is relieved he didn't go any higher


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## Papas1982 (Nov 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yes we know Vardy turned us down but Wenger didn't exactly bend over backwards to get him.

What was it ? Â£20M? 

Wenger has a valuation for a player and doesnt go above it and you can see why. Very easy to get caught up in a bidding war and before you know it you have mediocrity at a huge price. No thanks.
		
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It wasn't a bidding war. You got to talk to him after meeting his clause. You then offered him what he's on at Leicester now. 

So so quite simply he had a choice of Arsenal or Leicester for the same money. And he turned you down. 

I said he he was foolish at the time and belive that still to be true. But if you can't convince Vardy to join you. Good luck!


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## sawtooth (Nov 27, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			It wasn't a bidding war. You got to talk to him after meeting his clause. You then offered him what he's on at Leicester now. 

So so quite simply he had a choice of Arsenal or Leicester for the same money. And he turned you down. 

I said he he was foolish at the time and belive that still to be true. But if you can't convince Vardy to join you. Good luck!
		
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Exactly. Matched what he was offered by Leicester. Didn't bow to demands and break the bank to get him.


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## Slime (Nov 27, 2016)

Fish said:



			Manchester United after 13 games:

- Moyes: 22 points 

- Van Gaal: 22 points

- Mourinho: 20 points
		
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We're only &#8531; of the way through the season!
Plenty of time yet, but it'd help if opposing 'keepers didn't play so bloody well against us.
Hammers 'keeper with a MoM performance.


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## sawtooth (Nov 27, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Â£20m was the release clause - as soon as that was met then Arsenal were free to talk to Vardy - why does he need to go higher or get into a bidding war when the player has a release clause ?!! I'm not sure you have thought this through

As for Wenger and his bidding wars - only have to go back to his embarrassing Suarez Â£40mil and 1 pound bid ! He could have got Suarez if he had been serious enough and now he is prob the third best player in the world - bet Wenger is relieved he didn't go any higher
		
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Come on Phil even you can see that if Wenger really wanted Vardy that he would have offered Vardy an offer that he could not refuse. Truth is Wenger won't get sucked into spending over the odds and on this occasion he was probably right.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 27, 2016)

What exactly is Wenger getting wrong at the moment or is it the "they'll finish 4th again" they are still in the CL, 3 points off top and could go 2nd next saturday, still in the EFL, surely it would be better waiting till the Jan transfer has closed or they're out the top 4, etc,


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Come on Phil even you can see that if Wenger really wanted Vardy that he would have offered Vardy an offer that he could not refuse. Truth is Wenger won't get sucked into spending over the odds and on this occasion he was probably right.
		
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Sorry but no actually I can't see that - Wenger offered Vardy a lot of money and he turned Arsenal down - he had a choice and decided to stay with Leicester - im not sure why you keep talking about spending over the odds when a release clause was met and Vardy wasn't asking for anything more than was offered by both clubs ?

The decision Vardy made was nothing to do with money. If another club had offered more or Leicester had offered more then maybe you would have a point but no one did


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 27, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			What exactly is Wenger getting wrong at the moment or is it the "they'll finish 4th again" they are still in the CL, 3 points off top and could go 2nd next saturday, still in the EFL, surely it would be better waiting till the Jan transfer has closed or they're out the top 4, etc,
		
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Excellent point. Some rubbish being spouted about Wenger (again). The window is shut and Wenger has his squad and Arsenal seem to be ticking along rather well


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## Fish (Nov 27, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Didn't you say 7th at best in July?

No mate. 

I've not had chance to get on for a while, resend it and I'll reply.
		
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Plenty of time to drop like a stone. especially  as injuries mount up and fixtures come thick and fast! The January window will be key for some teams to strengthen, but will they?


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## sawtooth (Nov 27, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but no actually I can't see that - Wenger offered Vardy a lot of money and he turned Arsenal down - he had a choice and decided to stay with Leicester - im not sure why you keep talking about spending over the odds when a release clause was met and Vardy wasn't asking for anything more than was offered by both clubs ?

The decision Vardy made was nothing to do with money. If another club had offered more or Leicester had offered more then maybe you would have a point but no one did
		
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Like I said Wenger didn't offer Vardy anything special, just a match of Leicester's offer. Because he's not worth paying more for and Vardy will probably regret that decision for the rest of his life.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Like I said Wenger didn't offer Vardy anything special, just a match of Leicester's offer. Because he's not worth paying more for and Vardy will probably regret that decision for the rest of his life.
		
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So the player had a straight choice between Arsenal and Leicester and picked Leicester - it is really as simple as that Wenger couldn't persuade a Leicester player to join the club - right now he also can't persuade your two best players to sign new contracts as well 

Your initial post stated that it's good that Wenger doesn't listen to the forum or Arsenal would have players like Vardy and Martial - all that was pointed out to you was that Wenger did go for those players - and in fact one of those players turned him down - no matter how you try to twist into a financial issue it clearly wasn't - it was a straight choice between two clubs and he went with the League Champions.

And why would he regret it ? He has already got something that no player at Arsenal has won with Arsenal - a league medal , he is in a team that had already won their CL group and into the next round and is making history with that club and they have a great chance to keep going.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 27, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			I think koeman will come good. 

What i I wouldn't give for another decent striker. Might take sturridge as a paperweight next summer when Liverpool di their usual shopping visit.
		
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Straight swap for Van Dijk,please - sign here...............

I think him and Matip together would be great, Lovren is doing well with him, but think Matip/Dijk would be a fantastic partnership for the next 5 years.

Actually, I think we have some loyalty vouchers we can use up as well.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 27, 2016)

Fish said:



			Manchester United after 13 games:

- Moyes: 22 points 

- Van Gaal: 22 points

- Mourinho: 20 points
		
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Previous achievements go a long way, but are also not finite.

That why Moyes got less than a year (not much previous achievements).

Van Gaal got 2 seasons due to his previous managerial trophy list.

Mourinho will he get 2-3 seasons, though? The thing with Mourinho is that when things do go wrong, the whole world gets attacked and it brings negative press on the club/players and anyone else in his firing line, and its whether the board and supporters will accept that, or not.

You've got to give him to the end of the season.....as long as there are good signs.......and he hasnt dragged the club through the gutter press each week.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 27, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Straight swap for Van Dijk,please - sign here...............

I think him and Matip together would be great, Lovren is doing well with him, but think Matip/Dijk would be a fantastic partnership for the next 5 years.

Actually, I think we have some loyalty vouchers we can use up as well.

Click to expand...

Lol. 

Nope and nope. 

Being realistic, he will leave us. But, I certainly wouldn't want an injury prone (quality) player in exchange. 

think he'all leave in summer and for you to have a chance you'll need top 4 as he's cl quality no doubt.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 27, 2016)

Slime said:



			We're only &#8531; of the way through the season!
Plenty of time yet, but it'd help if opposing 'keepers didn't play so bloody well against us.
Hammers 'keeper with a MoM performance.
		
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You've only finished as high as you have in the last 2 seasons because of De gea though.:thup:


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 27, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Lol. 

Nope and nope. 

Being realistic, he will leave us. But, I certainly wouldn't want an injury prone (quality) player in exchange. 

think he'all leave in summer and for you to have a chance you'll need top 4 as he's cl quality no doubt.
		
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I wouldnt blame you.

Sturridge has been a great finisher, but the last 2 seasons injuries have taken their toll, and his pace and sharpness have suffered.

I still think he could be a great signing for someone, but it would be a gamble.

Van Dijk has impressed me this and last season. From what I saw at Celtic, he also looked very good, but us English have a myopic view as to Scottish based players being able to play in the Prem, but fair play to you for going for him.

Has he any weaknesses?


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## sawtooth (Nov 27, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So the player had a straight choice between Arsenal and Leicester and picked Leicester - it is really as simple as that Wenger couldn't persuade a Leicester player to join the club - right now he also can't persuade your two best players to sign new contracts as well 

Your initial post stated that it's good that Wenger doesn't listen to the forum or Arsenal would have players like Vardy and Martial - all that was pointed out to you was that Wenger did go for those players - and in fact one of those players turned him down - no matter how you try to twist into a financial issue it clearly wasn't - it was a straight choice between two clubs and he went with the League Champions.

And why would he regret it ? He has already got something that no player at Arsenal has won with Arsenal - a league medal , he is in a team that had already won their CL group and into the next round and is making history with that club and they have a great chance to keep going.
		
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Because with all due respect Arsenal are a far bigger club than Leicester.

He would have still had his league winner medal if he had joined Arsenal but he could conceivably be playing in the championship within the next couple of years with Leicester.

Yes they won the league last year but they are now 1000/1 to do it again and Arsenal are 6/1. Is there something you know that the bookies don't?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Because with all due respect Arsenal are a far bigger club than Leicester.
		
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Leicester are current League champions - Arsenal aren't - seems for Vardy the "size" of the club is irrelevant 




			He would have still had his league winner medal if he had joined Arsenal but he could conceivably be playing in the championship within the next couple of years with Leicester.

Yes they won the league last year but they are now 1000/1 to do it again and Arsenal are 6/1. Is there something you know that the bookies don't?
		
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Arsenal were shorter odds than Leicester last year to win it as well - seems the bookies were wrong then 

Ultimately Wenger wanted Vardy but he turned him down - so your initial statement and many more since are at best not very well through through


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## Papas1982 (Nov 27, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I wouldnt blame you.

Sturridge has been a great finisher, but the last 2 seasons injuries have taken their toll, and his pace and sharpness have suffered.

I still think he could be a great signing for someone, but it would be a gamble.

Van Dijk has impressed me this and last season. From what I saw at Celtic, he also looked very good, but us English have a myopic view as to Scottish based players being able to play in the Prem, but fair play to you for going for him.

Has he any weaknesses?
		
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Would have to see him when not alongside Fonte to judge. 
a lot of us (saints fans) thought fonte was a weak link a few years back, but he seems to be just as good no matter what cb we replace the previous with. 

He he likes to wander a little at times, but for me there aren't many I'd take over him. In the air he is immense. Quite quick and play a pass. 

Re Sturridge, would happily take him on loan but can't see how you can afford to lose him ATM with Mane likely to leave for Africa in Jan.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 27, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Would have to see him when not alongside Fonte to judge. 
a lot of us (saints fans) thought fonte was a weak link a few years back, but he seems to be just as good no matter what cb we replace the previous with. 

He he likes to wander a little at times, but for me there aren't many I'd take over him. In the air he is immense. Quite quick and play a pass. 

Re Sturridge, would happily take him on loan but can't see how you can afford to lose him ATM with Mane likely to leave for Africa in Jan.
		
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Van Dijk seems to be very cool on the ball as well, although get the wandering thing after seeing him today.

At the moment, If Coutinho is out for a few weeks/months I'd give Origi a run of 10 games and put Firminho slightly wider in the 3. Sturridge is a better finisher than Origi, on past history, but Origi works harder, holds it up better, has better link play and contributes more to the team. If he can score 2/3's of Sturridges goals it would be enough.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 27, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Van Dijk seems to be very cool on the ball as well, although get the wandering thing after seeing him today.

At the moment, If Coutinho is out for a few weeks/months I'd give Origi a run of 10 games and put Firminho slightly wider in the 3. Sturridge is a better finisher than Origi, on past history, but Origi works harder, holds it up better, has better link play and contributes more to the team. If he can score 2/3's of Sturridges goals it would be enough.
		
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I certainly expect to see more of Origi, quality finisher that sturridge is. His best season also came when he was part of a fluid forward line that suited him. 

He he seems to not connect with the team as he did with Suarez, gerrard and sterling.


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## Rlburnside (Nov 28, 2016)

Thought I'd lighten the mood a little.

My 5 year old grandson came down after football training the other day in his Arsenal strip ( his dads seen one Arsenal game and thinks he's supports them) so I called him over and took his top off and packed it in the bin,the look on his face was priceless, he stood for awhile before he took it back out.

The day after the Monaco loss I said to him " Spurs lost last night" he gave a fist pump and said "yes" . Have to have words with his dad.


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## sawtooth (Nov 28, 2016)

Rlburnside said:



			Thought I'd lighten the mood a little.

My 5 year old grandson came down after football training the other day in his Arsenal strip ( his dads seen one Arsenal game and thinks he's supports them) so I called him over and took his top off and packed it in the bin,the look on his face was priceless, he stood for awhile before he took it back out.

The day after the Monaco loss I said to him " Spurs lost last night" he gave a fist pump and said "yes" . Have to have words with his dad.

Click to expand...

Haha sounds a great little boy.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2016)

Tidy win and onto the semi finals - great to see the young lad get his first goal and in front of the kop , something dreams are made off.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 29, 2016)

The Tony Pullis case - wow, just wow!!!!


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## sawtooth (Nov 30, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			The Tony Pullis case - wow, just wow!!!!
		
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Karma. It couldn't have happened to a nicer man lol.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Karma. It couldn't have happened to a nicer man lol.
		
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Before this incident, what had he done wrong?

and please don't say Ramsey!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 30, 2016)

Hate to say it, but Man Utd are playing some decent football this 2nd half!


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## fundy (Nov 30, 2016)

lack of depth in the Arsenal squad yet again on show tonight, take out the best 6 or 7 and the rest look very ordinary time after time yet get paid as if they are world beaters


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## Papas1982 (Nov 30, 2016)

fundy said:



			lack of depth in the Arsenal squad yet again on show tonight, take out the best 6 or 7 and the rest look very ordinary time after time yet get paid as if they are world beaters
		
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Clearly your reserves. But certainly a lot easier than sides we've face in the last in similar situations. Although that may also be down to us having a better team that I've seen back then. 

Either way, happy to be through.


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## fundy (Nov 30, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Clearly your reserves. But certainly a lot easier than sides we've face in the last in similar situations. Although that may also be down to us having a better team that I've seen back then. 

Either way, happy to be through.
		
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arguably a few from our current starting XI (Ramsey, Iwobi, Coquelin) but look very lightweight without the likes of Sanchez, Ozil, Cazorla, Kos, etc certainly far from the depth in squad (mainly through hugely promising youngsters) that used to be one of Wengers great strengths

good luck in the rest of it, would happily see you win it

edit, think thats 3 years in this comp that we havent scored against let alone beaten prem opposition


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## Slime (Nov 30, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Hate to say it, but Man Utd are playing some decent football this 2nd half!
		
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They were excellent ................... but WHU were awful tonight.
Good to see Schweinsteiger getting a game and the West Ham keeper should have been off in the first couple of minutes for a shocking assault on Ibra.
I would call it a tackle, but the ball was already well gone ............. it was horrid.
United seemed to be enjoying themselves, for a change.
Mkhitaryan looked awesome tonight and Martial seemed to have a bit of zip once again.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 30, 2016)

Slime said:



			They were excellent ................... but WHU were awful tonight.
Good to see Schweinsteiger getting a game and the West Ham keeper should have been off in the first couple of minutes for a shocking assault on Ibra.
I would call it a tackle, but the ball was already well gone ............. it was horrid.
United seemed to be enjoying themselves, for a change.
*Mkhitaryan* looked awesome tonight and Martial seemed to have a bit of zip once again.
		
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Dont get what mourinho has against him. Last year in Germany he was up there as the best they (the league) had to offer. 
Its like mourinho has to humiliate an attacking player. Strange that generally mata gets ahead of him. Nit that Mata isn't quality, just because of how he treated him at a Chelsea. 

Pronabky the the best I've seen you all season other than against us in the second half.


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## sawtooth (Nov 30, 2016)

fundy said:



			arguably a few from our current starting XI (Ramsey, Iwobi, Coquelin) but look very lightweight without the likes of Sanchez, Ozil, Cazorla, Kos, etc certainly far from the depth in squad (mainly through hugely promising youngsters) that used to be one of Wengers great strengths

good luck in the rest of it, would happily see you win it

edit, think thats 3 years in this comp that we havent scored against let alone beaten prem opposition
		
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Wenger uses the league cup to give fringe players a game I wouldn't read too much into lol. 

And take 4 key players from any team in the world and see how different they would look. 

Good luck to Soton , I second that.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2016)

Goal of the Season

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38171160


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2016)

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chelsea-board-knew-of-sex-abuse-cover-up-x9kdpmvc5

Reporting that Chelsea knew about a cover up in Regards child sex abuse with coaches 

Is it the first of a number of clubs


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## Fish (Dec 2, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chelsea-board-knew-of-sex-abuse-cover-up-x9kdpmvc5

Reporting that Chelsea knew about a cover up in Regards child sex abuse with coaches 

Is it the first of a number of clubs
		
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Whilst I appreciate it's a sensitive subject, should the term 'cover up' be used at this time?  

It reads that the club, like many companies and individuals do, legally, agree to a settlement without admitting liability and draw up a confidentiality clause, this isn't an admission of guilt and is at times when it's simply 1 persons word against another the best way to settle something legally rather than dragging things through a court with no real winners or losers only to damage both individuals reputations (club & player) if there's no history, substance or evidence other than a single allegation, the only winners are the white collars representing both parties earning obscenes amount of money!

If there were no historic allegations made at or around the time of his employment so it was, as it seems to be currently, an isolated allegation then I can understand neither party wanting to be dragged through the courts and having the media circus in tow.  However, if it turns out that there are more allegations being reported against him and further evidence (keyword) surfaces that it was _known_ he was a predator, then yes, it's a 'cover up' and the club, but more so those directors at that time should be fined and asked to explain!

I'd say this for any club involved with only what we know at present, not just because its mine before someone jumps on that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2016)

Dario Gradi now accused of covering up whilst at Chelsea 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-alexandra-smoothed-over-claims-a7453151.html


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 2, 2016)

Dangerous to start pointing fingers without any evidence or the FA enquiry having started. The papers have a history of stirring things up. Just look at everything post Saville and those wrongly accused


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 3, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Reporting that ************** knew about a cover up in Regards child sex abuse with coaches
		
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Lets face it,it could be any club, it doesnt matter.

If it was match fixing, ref-paying, dope-taking fair enough, have a go at the club, but this subject is nothing to do with one particular club, its a scourge on society.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 3, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Lets face it,it could be any club, it doesnt matter.

If it was match fixing, ref-paying, dope-taking fair enough, have a go at the club, but this subject is nothing to do with one particular club, its a scourge on society.
		
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Just to be clear - i wasn't "having a go at the club" because of who the club is - so far they are the only club that are being reported/accused of covering up at this moment in time and yes regardless of which club it is very disturbing


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## sawtooth (Dec 3, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just to be clear - i wasn't "having a go at the club" because of who the club is - so far they are the only club that are being reported/accused of covering up at this moment in time and yes regardless of which club it is very disturbing
		
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Who are you kidding?

I bet you couldn't wait to post this&#128567;


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Who are you kidding?

I bet you couldn't wait to post this&#128567;
		
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Actually Sean no - this is issue is far too serious an issue to use for some petty point scoring exercise and i would hope im better than that as person to not even think about using it for that purpose to wind some fans up


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## pokerjoke (Dec 3, 2016)

Empty seats at the Ethiad in one of their biggest fixtures how embarrassing.


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## anotherdouble (Dec 3, 2016)

Sorry David you should have gone there. Clearly prevented a goal scoring opportunity. We got away with one there


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 3, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			Sorry David you should have gone there. Clearly prevented a goal scoring opportunity. We got away with one there
		
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You're having a laugh.  Never enough there for a yellow, never mind a red.


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## anotherdouble (Dec 3, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			You're having a laugh.  Never enough there for a yellow, never mind a red.
		
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Not at all. If that had been against my team I would have been fuming. It's all about opinions. The way I saw it is Luiz stepped across him in a deliberate action.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 3, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			Not at all. If that had been against my team I would have been fuming. It's all about opinions. The way I saw it is Luiz stepped across him in a deliberate action.
		
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He did make him go the long way round but he didn't poleaxe him like the collapse suggested.  But you're right,it's all about opinions and a different referee would possible have had Aguero & Fernandinho gone for some of their other actions.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 3, 2016)

Why are Chelsea giving De Bryune so much space - seems to have all the time in the world to pick a pass. Kante has been superb.

As for the Luiz incident - think it was a foul , it was a barge but not as dramatic as the fall suggested but looked a foul in all the replays as well which would mean he has denied a goalscorinf chance


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 3, 2016)

That was coming. If you put in enough top crosses one will go in eventually. Chelsea need to stop the wide stuff.


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## davemc1 (Dec 3, 2016)

Gary Cahill is rammel :rofl:


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 3, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Gary Cahill is rammel :rofl:
		
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Fortunately Costa is better. :thup:


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## Fish (Dec 3, 2016)

Brilliant cross from Fab and a real strikers goal, great strength & ability &#128526;


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 3, 2016)

Brilliant from Costa - lethal counter. 

Costa unplayable at the moment


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## Fish (Dec 3, 2016)

Costa has been superb, and what a clinical break, been a game of taking your chances, which City haven't &#128526;&#128514;&#128540;


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## Piece (Dec 3, 2016)

Would like my keeper to do a bit better than that Mr Bravo....


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 3, 2016)

And that should be game over!! 



Piece said:



			Would like my keeper to do a bit better than that Mr Bravo....
		
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Yup, but he can play with his feetâ€¦â€¦...

There seems to be a fire drill at the Emptihad :rofl:


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## Fish (Dec 3, 2016)

Lethal counter attack and Hazard doesn't miss those, now twist the knife a bit more, we want 4.....&#128540;&#128540;&#128540;


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## Piece (Dec 3, 2016)

Quality away performance, taking your chances. Should have been 2-zip if KdB had taken that noddy chance.

Quite fancy three points now on the 14th Dec...


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## Piece (Dec 3, 2016)

Biffo! Definite red and that's three games out my son


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## fundy (Dec 3, 2016)

what a horror tackle that is from Aguero, be lucky if he only misses 3 games for that

lol at the handbags afterwards


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 3, 2016)

And Fernandinho joins him.  A certain lack of discipline under Pep.


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## Piece (Dec 3, 2016)

Bit Spurs like that lack of discipline... heads gone, heads gone...repeat


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 3, 2016)

Poor from Aguero and Fernandinho - really poor

Was a cracking game ruined there even with the ref being shocking throughout 

Clinical from Chelsea and poor finishing from City the difference 

Costa was outstanding


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## Piece (Dec 3, 2016)

I thought the ref was OK?


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 3, 2016)

Piece said:



			I thought the ref was OK?
		
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I've seen far, far worse than that this season from referees.


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## Piece (Dec 3, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			I've seen far, far worse than that this season from referees.
		
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Oh yes.


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## Fish (Dec 3, 2016)

Aguero let himself and his team down with that tackle now missing at least 3 matches at a key period, then put Fernandinho into that with another 3 matches at least and City will be relying on the depth of their squad over the coming weeks, which I don't think is that strong. 

I'm sure the FA will still try and fine Chelsea in some  way, it's what they do, although City could be in real trouble with fans lashing out at players & coaching staff from what looked like behind or to the side of the dugouts.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 3, 2016)

Bearing in mind the way they've been with Mourinho, it'll be interesting to see if Pep escapes sanction.


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## Fish (Dec 3, 2016)

Are all reporters natuarally thick with their questions, to Costa 'do you think when you equalised it changed the game'! erm yes you thicko &#128540;&#128514;


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## Fish (Dec 3, 2016)

That's poor from Pep, he's trying to say it was a strong 50/50 tackle. Luiz kicked through the ball comfortably and aguero studs were late and high and on his Davids thigh, never an equal strong tackle which he alluded to &#128545;


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 3, 2016)

Fish said:



			That's poor from Pep, he's trying to say it was a strong 50/50 tackle. Luiz kicked through the ball comfortably and aguero studs were late and high and on his Davids thigh, never an equal strong tackle which he alluded to &#63009;
		
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Had that been Costa committing the tackle Sky would be petitioning the FA for a season long ban as we speak.


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## Dan2501 (Dec 3, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Had that been Costa committing the tackle Sky would be petitioning the FA for a season long ban as we speak.
		
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Spot on. Not like it's the first time either, they have previous, Aguero not quite the squeaky clean forward people make him out to be. 

[video=youtube;LDDOxa_0PG0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDDOxa_0PG0[/video]

Didn't even get booked for that one. Should get a lengthy ban for this one, disgusting tackle.


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## anotherdouble (Dec 3, 2016)

Had to go to work at half time so looking forward to match of the day


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## anotherdouble (Dec 3, 2016)

Leicester could be bottom 3 tonight. Catastrophic fall from grace. Obvious they couldn't emulate last year but this is very wrong


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## Fish (Dec 3, 2016)

Club apology..


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## sawtooth (Dec 3, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			Leicester could be bottom 3 tonight. Catastrophic fall from grace. Obvious they couldn't emulate last year but this is very wrong
		
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Bet Vardy had wished he moved to Arsenal now ;-))


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Bet Vardy had wished he moved to Arsenal now ;-))
		
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Why?.....so he could come fourth again?
Of course Leicester were never going to repeat last years fantastic season, but you have to give Vardy credit and praise for being loyal to a team.


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## sawtooth (Dec 3, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Had that been Costa committing the tackle Sky would be petitioning the FA for a season long ban as we speak.
		
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To be fair Costa has previous and so everybody knows what he is like and what he does.

Aguero doesn't deserve the same attention because anyone with a bit of common sense will know that Aguero a) isn't that type of player usually b) probably had a great deal of provocation from Luiz throughout the match. 

Don't forget that we don't see half the things that go on in a match even when live at the ground. I bet Luis was doing all sorts to wind Aguero  up in 90mins and Aguero had enough.

That's how I see it anyway.


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## sawtooth (Dec 3, 2016)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Why?.....so he could come fourth again?
Of course Leicester were never going to repeat last years fantastic season, but you have to give Vardy credit and praise for being loyal to a team.
		
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I give him credit for that yes but when a team like Arsenal come calling sorry you should take it especially at 29yrs old and playing for a team like Leicester.


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I give him credit for that yes but when a team like Arsenal come calling sorry you should take it especially at 29yrs old and playing for a team like Leicester.
		
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I still fail to see your end logic. Leicester were far more dynamic than Arsenal last year, more entertaining and a faster game. I dare say they suited his style of play whereas Arsenal probably wouldnt.


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## sawtooth (Dec 3, 2016)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I still fail to see your end logic. Leicester were far more dynamic than Arsenal last year, more entertaining and a faster game. I dare say they suited his style of play whereas Arsenal probably wouldnt.
		
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He can tell his grand kids that he played for Leicester I suppose. ;-)


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			He can tell his grand kids that he played for Leicester I suppose. ;-)
		
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Has to be more romantic than saying he played for the foruth place team.......


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## Fish (Dec 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			To be fair Costa has previous and so everybody knows what he is like and what he does.

Aguero doesn't deserve the same attention because anyone with a bit of common sense will know that Aguero a) isn't that type of player usually b) probably had a great deal of provocation from Luiz throughout the match. 

Don't forget that we don't see half the things that go on in a match even when live at the ground. I bet Luis was doing all sorts to wind Aguero  up in 90mins and Aguero had enough.

That's how I see it anyway.
		
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Jeez, you couldn't make it up, what a load of hogwash based on assumptions! 

And by the same logic, hadn't Costa lashed out when he'd had enough of being hacked down, studs scraped down him etc, but no doubt that different!

Your so full of it at times it begs belief!!


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## Fish (Dec 3, 2016)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Has to be more romantic than saying he played for the foruth place team.......

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And of course show them a PL Champions medal, they'll even get further in the CL &#128514;


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## sawtooth (Dec 3, 2016)

Fish said:



			Jeez, you couldn't make it up, what a load of hogwash based on assumptions! 

And by the same logic, hadn't Costa lashed out when he'd had enough of being hacked down, studs scraped down him etc, but no doubt that different!

Your so full of it at times it begs belief!!
		
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Put it this way Fish,  If i had to name a couple of nasty, dirty cheats in the prem I would name Luiz and Costa way before Aguero.


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## fundy (Dec 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:





Fish said:



			Jeez, you couldn't make it up, what a load of hogwash based on assumptions! 

And by the same logic, hadn't Costa lashed out when he'd had enough of being hacked down, studs scraped down him etc, but no doubt that different!

Your so full of it at times it begs belief!![/QUOTE)

Put it this way Fish,  If i had to name a couple of nasty, dirty cheats in the prem I would name Luiz and Costa way before Aguero.
		
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you werent asked to name dirty cheats, you tried to excuse a hideous tackle because a player had less previous
		
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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Put it this way Fish,  If i had to name a couple of nasty, dirty cheats in the prem I would name Luiz and Costa way before Aguero.
		
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It was a shocking tackle from Aguero and I expect his ban to be expected by a game or maybe two - whilst Luiz got a bit lucky in the first half it wasn't because of a "dirty" tackle and Costa right now appears to be concentrating on his football.


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## Hobbit (Dec 3, 2016)

Fish said:



			Jeez, you couldn't make it up, what a load of hogwash based on assumptions! 

And by the same logic, hadn't Costa lashed out when he'd had enough of being hacked down, studs scraped down him etc, but no doubt that different!

Your so full of it at times it begs belief!!
		
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I think Costa has been great this season. As to ongoing wind ups out of sight or hearing of the ref or linesman. You better believe it happens, and to the nth degree.

I played left back till my late 30's to a very decent amateur standard. The nudges, digs and verbals happen all through the game. Defenders on forwards and forwards on defenders. It's rare that it goes over the top but if someone has a short fuse...


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## fundy (Dec 3, 2016)

think i need a lie down, im agreeing with fish and phil on the footie thread


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## sawtooth (Dec 3, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was a shocking tackle from Aguero and I expect his ban to be expected by a game or maybe two - whilst Luiz got a bit lucky in the first half it wasn't because of a "dirty" tackle and Costa right now appears to be concentrating on his football.
		
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Like I said stuff goes on that you don't get to hear and see. My personal opinion is that for Aguero to do something like that he must have.been provoked beyond belief and Luiz knows what buttons to press.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 3, 2016)

Sean you are delusional and by some of your comments your another who needs the Hockey season to start.


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## sawtooth (Dec 3, 2016)

Class from Sanchez, almost as good as Suarez isn't he?


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 3, 2016)

West Ham look rubbish. Could Bilic be on borrowed time soon. Mind you with goals like the ones from Sanchez and Oxlaide Chamberlain there's not much you can do


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Like I said stuff goes on that you don't get to hear and see. My personal opinion is that for Aguero to do something like that he must have.been provoked beyond belief and Luiz knows what buttons to press.
		
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Second Red card of the season already done 3 matches for elbowing West Ham player, probably provoked in that game as well eh!


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## sawtooth (Dec 3, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Second Red card of the season already done 3 matches for elbowing West Ham player, probably provoked in that game as well eh!
		
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Yeah most likely.The better player you are the more of a target you are.


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## NWJocko (Dec 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah most likely.The better player you are the more of a target you are.
		
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Whilst that may be true Aguero does have a nasty streak.

That tackle was an absolute disgrace.

Impressive win by Chelsea and Arsenal to keep in touch a bit. Top 4/5 sort of separating themselves a bit now, Utd going to have to put a strong run together to get close.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah most likely.The better player you are the more of a target you are.
		
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Doesn't that count for Costa then?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 3, 2016)

NWJocko said:



			Whilst that may be true Aguero does have a nasty streak.

That tackle was an absolute disgrace.

Impressive win by Chelsea and Arsenal to keep in touch a bit. Top 4/5 sort of separating themselves a bit now, Utd going to have to put a strong run together to get close.
		
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Nice editing, did you check todays Spurs result after you pressed post? :rofl:


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## NWJocko (Dec 3, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Nice editing, did you check todays Spurs result after you pressed post? :rofl:
		
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Ha ha, I completely missed them looking at the table and thought they must have been below Utd! :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 3, 2016)

NWJocko said:



			Ha ha, I completely missed them looking at the table and thought they must have been below Utd! :rofl:
		
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Still think it's only a 4 horse race, I can see Spurs taking points off the top 4 head to head, but mess up against lower teams.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I give him credit for that yes but when a team like Arsenal come calling sorry you should take it especially at 29yrs old and playing for a team like Leicester.
		
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Did you have the same attitude when RVP went to United?


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## Tashyboy (Dec 3, 2016)

Well ave just got back from the game and when Chelsea were good they were awesome. When they were average they got away with murder. Cannot remember the last time I saw a team that ended with so many players rolling on the floor. Oh ah I can, it was Chelsea last year.
I don't know what I was more frustrated with, the referee or city's woeful finishing.
Re the  Aguero incident, he was kicked from pillar to post during the game, he and other City players for no protection and frustrations boiled over. No excuses. Said this before and will say it again. Pep will look at that team today and knows he needs a left back right back and centre half, at least.
Nice to see YaYa come on and do nowt. Maybe the thought of a drink driving charge hanging over his head was playing on his mind. Thought he was a tea total non alcohol drinking Muslim.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 3, 2016)

They were saying on the radio that with the Fernadinho incident that Fabregas started it all with a slap to someone's face and that he will possibly be given a ban as well ? Can't remember them showing it but would explain why Fernadinho went for him


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 3, 2016)

I've missed all the shenanigans at City so looking forward to seeing it later and in the morning on Sky on the Sunday Supplement. Sounds like a lot to digest. Judging by the reaction on here the Aguero challenge was a shocker. Did Chelsea deserve to win so easily?


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 3, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They were saying on the radio that with the Fernadinho incident that Fabregas started it all with a slap to someone's face and that he will possibly be given a ban as well ? Can't remember them showing it but would explain why Fernadinho went for him
		
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Actually they did show it, and judging by the sanction for Chalobah, Fabregas would have got a yellow at worst for it.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah most likely.The better player you are the more of a target you are.
		
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pauldj42 said:



			Doesn't that count for Costa then?
		
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Apparently not then Paul.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 3, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Actually they did show it, and judging by the sanction for Chalobah, Fabregas would have got a yellow at worst for it.
		
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Raising hands to someone's face is a red card - violent conduct 

http://www.givemesport.com/930652-footage-explains-why-fernandinho-was-so-angry-with-cesc-fabregas

If Chalobah did the same and got a yellow card then that's another poor decision from the ref


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 3, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



			Spot on. Not like it's the first time either, they have previous, Aguero not quite the squeaky clean forward people make him out to be. 

[video=youtube;LDDOxa_0PG0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDDOxa_0PG0[/video]

Didn't even get booked for that one. Should get a lengthy ban for this one, disgusting tackle.
		
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sawtooth said:



			To be fair Costa has previous and so everybody knows what he is like and what he does.

Aguero doesn't deserve the same attention because anyone with a bit of common sense will know that Aguero a) isn't that type of player usually b) probably had a great deal of provocation from Luiz throughout the match. 

Don't forget that we don't see half the things that go on in a match even when live at the ground. I bet Luis was doing all sorts to wind Aguero  up in 90mins and Aguero had enough.

That's how I see it anyway.
		
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sawtooth said:



			Put it this way Fish,  If i had to name a couple of nasty, dirty cheats in the prem I would name Luiz and Costa way before Aguero.
		
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Try looking at the video above; Aguero has got plenty of previous himself, still as it's on Luiz I suppose it's okay, isn't it Sean. Delusional is about right.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 3, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Well ave just got back from the game and when Chelsea were good they were awesome. When they were average they got away with murder. Cannot remember the last time I saw a team that ended with so many players rolling on the floor. Oh ah I can, it was Chelsea last year.
I don't know what I was more frustrated with, the referee or city's woeful finishing.
*Re the  Aguero incident, he was kicked from pillar to post during the game, he and other City players for no protection and frustrations boiled over*. No excuses. Said this before and will say it again. Pep will look at that team today and knows he needs a left back right back and centre half, at least.
Nice to see YaYa come on and do nowt. Maybe the thought of a drink driving charge hanging over his head was playing on his mind. Thought he was a tea total non alcohol drinking Muslim.
		
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Did you have Arsene Wenger's seat for the afternoon?  Utter rammel.  Aguero and in particular Fernandinho were kicking anything that moved, extremely cyclical chop from Fernandinho on the halfway line to stop a break.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 3, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Well ave just got back from the game and when Chelsea were good they were awesome. When they were average they got away with murder. Cannot remember the last time I saw a team that ended with so many players rolling on the floor. Oh ah I can, it was Chelsea last year.
I don't know what I was more frustrated with, the referee or city's woeful finishing.
Re the  Aguero incident, he was kicked from pillar to post during the game, he and other City players for no protection and frustrations boiled over. No excuses. Said this before and will say it again. Pep will look at that team today and knows he needs a left back right back and centre half, at least.
Nice to see YaYa come on and do nowt. Maybe the thought of a drink driving charge hanging over his head was playing on his mind. Thought he was a tea total non alcohol drinking Muslim.
		
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At least your right.
Watching the game you have 3 really good players the rest need replacing.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 3, 2016)

Costa himself took some stick although he gives as good as he gets but atm he is concentrating on his football and as others have said he looks a quality player.

Last year he needed replacing.

Don't write UTD off we are starting to play some decent football and will go on a good run.


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## Fish (Dec 3, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Don't write UTD off we are starting to play some decent football and will go on a good run.
		
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But those all above you have to go on a bad run to make up what ground there is already between them and you, can't see you pushing into the top 4 unless someone drops like a stone, which with injuries and suspensions could happen but you can't afford anything less than 3 points tomorrow, and although Evrrton are certainly not the form team, they'll raise their game tomorrow for uniteds visit.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 3, 2016)

Missed most of the second half of the City game but they should have been home and hosed before Chelsea equalised. If De Bruyne scores, how did he not, just before the Chelsea goal then the game is very different. Such are the margins. Chelsea seem to be a second half team, very powerful and you clearly need to put them away when you get the chance.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 3, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I've missed all the shenanigans at City so looking forward to seeing it later and in the morning on Sky on the Sunday Supplement. Sounds like a lot to digest. Judging by the reaction on here the Aguero challenge was a shocker. Did Chelsea deserve to win so easily?
		
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City had one disallowed for offside, went one up, de Bryune missed a sitter, Courtois had a stonker. City should of been 3-0 up. But like I say when Chelsa were good they were very good. Both teams were good bad and ugly. So no Homer the score don't really reflect on the game.


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## Fish (Dec 3, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			City had one disallowed for offside, went one up, de Bryune missed a sitter, Courtois had a stonker. City should of been 3-0 up. But like I say when Chelsa were good they were very good. Both teams were good bad and ugly. So no Homer the score don't really reflect on the game.
		
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And don't forget the only goal you got was an own goal &#128540;


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## pokerjoke (Dec 3, 2016)

Fish said:



			But those all above you have to go on a bad run to make up what ground there is already between them and you, can't see you pushing into the top 4 unless someone drops like a stone, which with injuries and suspensions could happen but you can't afford anything less than 3 points tomorrow, and although Evrrton are certainly not the form team, they'll raise their game tomorrow for uniteds visit.
		
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I feel City and Liverpool will drop and if they don't well so what life goes on.

We have played well in spots the last few games and I see green shoots


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## Tashyboy (Dec 3, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Did you have Arsene Wenger's seat for the afternoon?  Utter rammel.  Aguero and in particular Fernandinho were kicking anything that moved, extremely cyclical chop from Fernandinho on the halfway line to stop a break.
		
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B in M, what you saw from City you saw, there was no excuses for some of the challenges. You don't need arsenes seat for that, what I also saw was the Chelsea sub shove Aguero, that's a sending off like Nolito got early this year. Dint happen.What I also saw was Luis blatantly block Aguero running through that could of been a red as well, dint happen. Let's discuss the penalty appeals, again dint happen.  A minute or two into the game the ref stops play because Hazard is down. With City on the break. Five minutes later a City player is down and the game plays on. What fans want is consistency. Today's ref was consistently Rammel, only matched by some of the Chelsea players antics, obviously am just a bitter fan, but when a player dives for a penalty or free kick, you expect a booking. Dint happen.
What did happen was because a ref could not control a game, It was farcical. What I will say as well is if my team started with some of those tactics what Chelsea used today I would not be impressed one bit.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 3, 2016)

Fish said:



			And don't forget the only goal you got was an own goal &#63004;
		
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At least he was English &#128513;


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## Fish (Dec 3, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			I feel City and Liverpool will drop and if they don't well so what life goes on.

We have played well in spots the last few games and I see green shoots
		
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Will certainly be interesting to see how Liverpool cope over the coming weeks with a busy fixture list,same for City with suspensions.


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 3, 2016)

Fish said:



			Will certainly be interesting to see how Liverpool cope over the coming weeks with a busy fixture list,same for City with suspensions.
		
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Are they the only 2 with a busy fixture list then?


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## Fish (Dec 3, 2016)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Are they the only 2 with a busy fixture list then?
		
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They've both lost their star player and imo they don't have the squad or a natural replacement to help get them through what is traditionally a busy festive period.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 3, 2016)

Thoughts on todays game.

City could and should have been clear, even though at the time Chelsea were still giving them summat to think about. 

Luiz on Aguero was deffo a foul, he ran right across him, deliberately, and the ref was very poor. Not enough weight to knock Aguero down......and I hate saying this, but like shirt-tugs in the box......you generally only get it if you go down. Its not always a red any more, but should have deffo been a yellow. At this point I thought the ref had got a lot wrong. Again, I'll say it , now it isnt my team it involves, but a Greater manc ref shouldnt be doing city or United.

Chelsea were great second half, and it was a cracking match. Costa was immense and in control, as he has been all season - some player now to lead the line.

Citys defending was poor and the gaps they left were shocking - defend the middle of the pitch for God's sake, not strung out like knickers on a line.....City without yaya, Barry, Kompany, Milner are missing some captain material, and a few old heads. Great individuals, but not enough "narks" in the team. Chelsea, again look the most well-balanced team in the prem.

Disgusting challenge by Aguero - worth 2 red cards. Sh.....ouse play by Fabregas, do the sly slap on someone, then when he confronts you, back, back away trying to get him sent off, horrible stuff.

Overall, if I was a Chelsea fan i'd be well happy with that overall performance/result today....although could have been very different.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 3, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			B in M, what you saw from City you saw, there was no excuses for some of the challenges. You don't need arsenes seat for that, what I also saw was the Chelsea sub shove Aguero, that's a sending off like Nolito got early this year. Dint happen.What I also saw was Luis blatantly block Aguero running through that could of been a red as well, dint happen. Let's discuss the penalty appeals, again dint happen.  A minute or two into the game the ref stops play because Hazard is down. With City on the break. Five minutes later a City player is down and the game plays on. What fans want is consistency. Today's ref was consistently Rammel, only matched by some of the Chelsea players antics, obviously am just a bitter fan, but when a player dives for a penalty or free kick, you expect a booking. Dint happen.
What did happen was because a ref could not control a game, It was farcical. What I will say as well is if my team started with some of those tactics what Chelsea used today I would not be impressed one bit.
		
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Which penalty appeals do you want to discuss Tashy?  The one where Cahill was on the deck with his back to play when the ball hit his arm; the one around the penalty spot that was a clean win of the ball with the City player going over; or the one where Navas (I believe) went down like a sack of spuds with minimal or no contact which the referee waved away?  You're right, he didn't get booked for that dive.

Fernandinho & Aguero could have accrued enough yellow cards to be long gone before the handbags.  The referee did see Chalobah shove Aguero but decided it only merited a yellow; considering what he'd let Fernandinho get away with there's an argument that the yellow was harsh.

As for players antics do you want to discuss the classy antics of Aguero after Cahill put through his own net, the antics of City players in trying to get opposition players booked, the antics of Pep on the touchline, which ones?  I'd have a much closer look at your own players antics before trying to take the moral high ground after that performance.  Bottom line is that you weren't good enough, but it's easier to blame the referee & the opposition than the bloke that hit the bar from 4 yards out.  Telling Bravo to dive towards the ball rather than away from it might help as well.

You're right in one respect though, you are coming across as a bitter fan.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 3, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Thoughts on todays game.

City could and should have been clear, even though at the time Chelsea were still giving them summat to think about. 

Luiz on Aguero was deffo a foul, he ran right across him, deliberately, and the ref was very poor. Not enough weight to knock Aguero down......and I hate saying this, but like shirt-tugs in the box......you generally only get it if you go down. Its not always a red any more, but should have deffo been a yellow. At this point I thought the ref had got a lot wrong. Again, I'll say it , now it isnt my team it involves, but a Greater manc ref shouldnt be doing city or United.

Chelsea were great second half, and it was a cracking match. Costa was immense and in control, as he has been all season - some player now to lead the line.

Citys defending was poor and the gaps they left were shocking - defend the middle of the pitch for God's sake, not strung out like knickers on a line.....City without yaya, Barry, Kompany, Milner are missing some captain material, and a few old heads. Great individuals, but not enough "narks" in the team. Chelsea, again look the most well-balanced team in the prem.

Disgusting challenge by Aguero - worth 2 red cards. *Sh.....ouse play by Fabregas, do the sly slap on someone, then when he confronts you, back, back away trying to get him sent off, horrible stuff.*

Overall, if I was a Chelsea fan i'd be well happy with that overall performance/result today....although could have been very different.
		
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I take your point Peter, but it seems to be that when people wind Costa up & he reacts it's Costa's fault for reacting, yet when Fabregas winds Fernandinho up and Fernandinho reacts, it's Fabregas' fault for winding him up; how does that work?   Personally I'm with you, it's not pleasant but if we are going to slate people for it then let's be consistent and slate those who wind Costa up as well.  

I'm not saying that you were one of the ones slagging Costa btw, it's just that you were the one that made the point about Fabregas.  Nor am I suggesting that Costa has been a saint, but if we are going to knock players' behaviour a consistent approach would be good. :thup:


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 3, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



*City had one disallowed for offside,* went one up, de Bryune missed a sitter, Courtois had a stonker. City should of been 3-0 up. But like I say when Chelsa were good they were very good. Both teams were good bad and ugly. So no Homer the score don't really reflect on the game.
		
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Could that have been because it was offside?  Referee gets a decision right & he still can't win.


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## sawtooth (Dec 3, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Try looking at the video above; Aguero has got plenty of previous himself, still as it's on Luiz I suppose it's okay, isn't it Sean. Delusional is about right.
		
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Not at all delusional, i just saw the most blatant body check on Aguero by Luis and ref never batted an eyelid.


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## sawtooth (Dec 3, 2016)

Another shove on Aguero there by Luiz. I didn't need to see the match to know that Luiz did a job on Aguero and I for one am very pleased that he dished something back to him later on.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 3, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Try looking at the video above; Aguero has got plenty of previous himself, still as it's on Luiz I suppose it's okay, isn't it Sean. Delusional is about right.
		
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sawtooth said:



			Not at all delusional, i just saw the most blatant body check on Aguero by Luis and ref never batted an eyelid.
		
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And completely ignores any comment on the assault by Aguero in the video; you should be in politics.


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## sawtooth (Dec 3, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			And completely ignores any comment on the assault by Aguero in the video; you should be in politics. 

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Retaliation though wasn't it? I certainly lhink so. Take your blue glasses off for a second and agree that Luiz is a scum bag. Go on it won't hurt to do that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Another shove on Aguero there by Luiz. I didn't need to see the match to know that Luiz did a job on Aguero and I for one am very pleased that he dished something back to him later on.
		
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You're pleased that Aguero went in two footed studs up into Luis knee ?!?! Are you serious Sean or on the wind up !! That's a disgusting thing to say , shocking - and after all the preaching and attitude towards Pullis and Stoke about the Ramsey tackle - Aguero could have caused serious damage to Luis today and you're pleased ?! 

You have let yourself down with that comment

Between all the banter and wind ups on here all the true fans don't cross a line - only the obvious ones looking for a reaction cross the line and you just joined them with that comment - thought you were better than that


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Retaliation though wasn't it? I certainly lhink so. Take your blue glasses off for a second and agree that Luiz is a scum bag. Go on it won't hurt to do that.
		
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Scum bag?  Really?  You've plumbed new depths there, even by your standards.  Goodnight.


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## fundy (Dec 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Another shove on Aguero there by Luiz. I didn't need to see the match to know that Luiz did a job on Aguero and *I for one am very pleased that he dished something back to him later on*.
		
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then you're not a football fan and are now just embarassing yourself!


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 3, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			I take your point Peter, but it seems to be that when people wind Costa up & he reacts it's Costa's fault for reacting, yet when Fabregas winds Fernandinho up and Fernandinho reacts, it's Fabregas' fault for winding him up; how does that work?   Personally I'm with you, it's not pleasant but if we are going to slate people for it then let's be consistent and slate those who wind Costa up as well.  

I'm not saying that you were one of the ones slagging Costa btw, it's just that you were the one that made the point about Fabregas.  Nor am I suggesting that Costa has been a saint, but if we are going to knock players' behaviour a consistent approach would be good. :thup:
		
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My point with Fabregas was the unmanly/cynical way that he slapped someone, then when he was confronted he backed off like a big tart, or he was being "clever" to the point of just doing enough to get Fernandinho sent off. This was a situation commented on in isolation. It's "portuguese" behaviour.

To give Costa his due, he gives it out and he takes it. He wouldnt have backed down the way fabregas did.

Costa was the most targetted player in the prem, because of his short fuse, and now that he is showing a little more sense, he is now treated better than last year. I think refs are being a bit fairer with him now, and the opposing players arent trying it on as much. Hence, you now have a great player leading the line.

If Costa and Fernandinho were in the same situation, Costa wouldnt have taken a backward step.:thup:

I also would have been glad about Chalobah's reaction, if he was my team mate. Lets face it if someone had punched Aguero, he'd have deserved it, after that challenge. Luiz is a lucky boy not to have been hurt more.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 3, 2016)

Trouble is with going to the football that it's a bit like the F1 racing, brilliant to be there but it's better for viewing on the telly. Now people are seeing on MOTD what I saw live earlier. You start to see what I was on about. Trouble is with MOTD it will edit ten minutes of 90 minutes and will only partly paint the full picture. Yup am bogged off but like I said Chelsea when they were good they were fantastic, it's just that ugly side of Chelsea leaves a bitter taste in your mouth.


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## sawtooth (Dec 3, 2016)

No I am sick to the teeth of Luiz, I feel for Aguero I really do. How anybody can defend Luiz and pretend to not know what he is like amazes me.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 3, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			I take your point Peter, but it seems to be that when people wind Costa up & he reacts it's Costa's fault for reacting, yet when Fabregas winds Fernandinho up and Fernandinho reacts, it's Fabregas' fault for winding him up; how does that work?   Personally I'm with you, it's not pleasant but if we are going to slate people for it then let's be consistent and slate those who wind Costa up as well.  

I'm not saying that you were one of the ones slagging Costa btw, it's just that you were the one that made the point about Fabregas.  Nor am I suggesting that Costa has been a saint, but if we are going to knock players' behaviour a consistent approach would be good. :thup:
		
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Anyway, go away and enjoy your win. :thup:

Like many times, I've come away from the match feeling great, then I come on here and some of the comments can take the gloss of it, due to people's "angles".

Watch MOTD, goals on Sunday, Sunday supplement, then go on the Chelsea channel......cos every neutral hates yers....:whoo:


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## NWJocko (Dec 3, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			No I am sick to the teeth of Luiz, I feel for Aguero I really do. How anybody can defend Luiz and pretend to not know what he is like amazes me.
		
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Eh!? Luiz will no doubt be a wind up merchant. Doesn't excuse Aguero going in at waist height on him though!!! 

Why exactly do you feel sorry for Aguero?


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 3, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Trouble is with going to the football that it's a bit like the F1 racing, brilliant to be there but it's better for viewing on the telly. Now people are seeing on MOTD what I saw live earlier. You start to see what I was on about. *Trouble is with MOTD it will edit ten minutes of 90 minutes and will only partly paint the full picture*. Yup am bogged off but like I said Chelsea when they were good they were fantastic, it's just that ugly side of Chelsea leaves a bitter taste in your mouth.
		
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Fortunate for you then that with the exception of the handbags at the end, the editor whitewashed out the ugly side of City.


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## garyinderry (Dec 3, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			My point with Fabregas was the unmanly/cynical way that he slapped someone, then when he was confronted he backed off like a big tart, or he was being "clever" to the point of just doing enough to get Fernandinho sent off. This was a situation commented on in isolation. It's "portuguese" behaviour.

To give Costa his due, he gives it out and he takes it. He wouldnt have backed down the way fabregas did.

Costa was the most targetted player in the prem, because of his short fuse, and now that he is showing a little more sense, he is now treated better than last year. I think refs are being a bit fairer with him now, and the opposing players arent trying it on as much. Hence, you now have a great player leading the line.

If Costa and Fernandinho were in the same situation, Costa wouldnt have taken a backward step.:thup:

I also would have been glad about Chalobah's reaction, if he was my team mate. Lets face it if someone had punched Aguero, he'd have deserved it, after that challenge. Luiz is a lucky boy not to have been hurt more.
		
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Can't argue with any of that.  Pathetic from fabregas.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 3, 2016)

Disgraceful dive by Dele Alli for the Spurs penalty.


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## MegaSteve (Dec 3, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Disgraceful dive by Dele Alli for the Spurs penalty.
		
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Really?

The spuds won by five had 25 shots to the swans one so it makes just one tiny dive OK... Apparently...


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 3, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Disgraceful dive by Dele Alli for the Spurs penalty.
		
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Nuryev-esque, the little quatrime devant in mid air, was sublime.


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## Fish (Dec 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Another shove on Aguero there by Luiz. I didn't need to see the match to know that Luiz did a job on Aguero and *I for one am very pleased that he dished something back to him later on*.
		
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Wow, I hope one of your players keeps winding up someone up in the future and gets his just deserves, although you've had plenty of unpleasant players in the past fit that role, I wonder what your opinion would be of an opposition player who constantly gets nudged, wound up and fouled but not in a dangerous manner by 1 of your players to put him off his game only then to get recklessly and dangerously tackled in a way that could have caused serious injury, maybe you'd just say "well he dished it out all day so he had that coming", bet you don't though!  

Did you watch any games when Vieira (PL record holder of red cards) , Adams & Keown played?

You have now fell to an all time low, it's one thing having blinkers and wanting to be Arsene's love child, it's another totally condoning that tackle from any player irrelevant of anything that may or may not have gone on before, that's disgraceful from you IMO.


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## Hobbit (Dec 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Retaliation though wasn't it? I certainly lhink so. Take your blue glasses off for a second and agree that Luiz is a scum bag. Go on it won't hurt to do that.
		
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sawtooth said:



			No I am sick to the teeth of Luiz, I feel for Aguero I really do. How anybody can defend Luiz and pretend to not know what he is like amazes me.
		
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sawtooth said:



			Another shove on Aguero there by Luiz. I didn't need to see the match to know that Luiz did a job on Aguero and I for one am very pleased that he dished something back to him later on.
		
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You on the sauce last night Sean, or just trolling? I guess it was just trolling for an argument as you didn't see the match.


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## sawtooth (Dec 4, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			You on the sauce last night Sean, or just trolling? I guess it was just trolling for an argument as you didn't see the match.
		
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I might have had one or two&#128537;

TBH I hadn't seen the "horror" tackle from aguero before I said what I said so that was reckless of me and I apologise  for that, There is no place for that kind of tackle whether the player had it coming or not,

But you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that Aguero would have been levelling the score with Luis, And even in the 5 mins highlights I saw evidence to back that up, I can almost guarantee that in the other 85 mins Luiz would have been at it off camera with Aguero maybe even with verbal insults to boot.

I'm a mild mannered person but once or twice in the distant past playing football I would react like that on the football pitch, If I was kicked all game or be or be on the receiving end of some pretty dangerous tackles I would wait until that player had the ball and give some back,  I wouldn't worry about the consequences.

With a lot of provocation you can sometimes understand why people do the things they do.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 4, 2016)

Costa is a thug, Fabregas is a sneak and Aguero's tackle was plain nasty. Sorted &#128513;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Costa is a thug, Fabregas is a sneak and Aguero's tackle was plain nasty. Sorted &#128513;
		
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Not sure of the need to mention Costa, he has history sure, but naming him you could name another 50.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I might have had one or two&#128537;

TBH I hadn't seen the "horror" tackle from aguero before I said what I said so that was reckless of me and I apologise  for that, There is no place for that kind of tackle whether the player had it coming or not,

But you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that Aguero would have been levelling the score with Luis, And even in the 5 mins highlights I saw evidence to back that up, I can almost guarantee that in the other 85 mins Luiz would have been at it off camera with Aguero maybe even with verbal insults to boot.

I'm a mild mannered person but once or twice in the distant past playing football I would react like that on the football pitch, If I was kicked all game or be or be on the receiving end of some pretty dangerous tackles I would wait until that player had the ball and give some back,  I wouldn't worry about the consequences.

With a lot of provocation you can sometimes understand why people do the things they do.
		
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You should've stopped after the emoji.
Always said a drunken man speaks a sober mans thoughts.


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## freddielong (Dec 4, 2016)

One of the worst tackles I have ever seen he has already been banned for violent conduct so he should (if the fa have any balls) get 9 games for that.


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## irip (Dec 4, 2016)

I am amazed that having just watched a brilliant game between two sides who are probably the two most fancied sides to win the league that all that is being talked about is a bit of push and shove when the game was finished.

Yes the Aguero tackle was disgraceful, as a top player he should be used to getting some stick on the pitch and deal with it in a much better way, all top players especially attacking players receive the same treatment every game, and i bet if city were winning then it would not of happened.

The game was great to watch.

City looked awesome going forward for long spells and and but for better finishing and some superb keeping and excellent body on the line defending could and should of been out of sight, but still looked dodgy every time chelsea went forward, it looked very much like watching Barcelona when Pep was in charge, but i think as a whole the Premier league is stronger than the Spanish league and City will have to improve a hell of a lot to win the league.

Chelsea played as though they had real belief in each other and the manager, last year under Jose they would of lost that game easily, under Conte they looked like they really want it, they are all working for each other and with their quality that makes them a good side. They proved yesterday they can dig a result out as well as blowing teams away and took full advantage of City not being able to finish the game when they were well on top. As soon as Chelsea had a good spell they took their chances.

For me a cracking game really interesting and yes their was some diving and play acting going on, none of us like it but both teams were doing it, and that is the same for every team in the league (and in fact the leagues below) so lets accept that and enjoy the football and discuss the good points of the game, I am not a Chelsea fan but they in about 6 pages on here they have had very little credit for a very good performance that had a bit of everything.

And Breathe.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Not sure of the need to mention Costa, he has history sure, but naming him you could name another 50.
		
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The last x number of pages have been about players from both teams yesterday who caused bother etc. I decided to offer a quick summary. You can't exclude the big lad from that list. You can add others but you can't leave him off. Maybe I should have substituted Luis for Costa as Luis is a thug as well.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 4, 2016)

freddielong said:



			One of the worst tackles I have ever seen he has already been banned for violent conduct so he should (if the fa have any balls) get 9 games for that.
		
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9 games? Really!

hes neem an idiot. But that why there's a charge for violent conduct. He should probably get 4. 3 for violent conduct and an additional for second red. 

It was a dirty tackle and there's no defending it. But the only reason I can see poeple wanting such bans is so he's not playing for a rival. 

All the top clubs have had players put in shocking tackles over the years and never heard calls for such bans before.


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## freddielong (Dec 4, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			9 games? Really!

hes neem an idiot. But that why there's a charge for violent conduct. He should probably get 4. 3 for violent conduct and an additional for second red. 

It was a dirty tackle and there's no defending it. But the only reason I can see poeple wanting such bans is so he's not playing for a rival. 

All the top clubs have had players put in shocking tackles over the years and never heard calls for such bans before.
		
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Both incidents involving him have been nasty and violent, he was really trying to injure Luiz yesterday what if Luiz had his foot planted and Aguero got him full on, that was a career ending tackle just because Luiz was lucky it doesn't mean Aguero should get away with it.

I am pretty sure Aguero now misses the Arsenal game so it doesn't really matter to me after that.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The last x number of pages have been about players from both teams yesterday who caused bother etc. I decided to offer a quick summary. You can't exclude the big lad from that list. You can add others but you can't leave him off. Maybe I should have substituted Luis for Costa as Luis is a thug as well.
		
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Costa certainly knows how to give it out, but yesterday, no, no chance, he wasn't involved in the controversy.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Costa certainly knows how to give it out, but yesterday, no, no chance, he wasn't involved in the controversy.
		
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He wasn't involved in it, but his attempted elbow which never connected with Kolarov was overshadowed with other unsavoury events on the pitch. If it had of connected we would of been talking a bit more about it now.


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## Backache (Dec 4, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Both incidents involving him have been nasty and violent, he was really trying to injure Luiz yesterday what if Luiz had his foot planted and Aguero got him full on, that was a career ending tackle just because Luiz was lucky it doesn't mean Aguero should get away with it.

I am pretty sure Aguero now misses the Arsenal game so it doesn't really matter to me after that.
		
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Aguero's tackle was actually far to high to be a likely cause of a bad injury. with a foot planted you need to be below or at about knee level for that. He might have hurt him with that tackle but was unlikely to cause him serious injury.

The other incident wasn't particularly nasty and violent he caught Reid with a forearm when Reid was trying to grapple with him. A sending off nowadays yes but not really very dangerous.


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## Piece (Dec 4, 2016)

Jeez, there's some blinkered hot air here, again.

Here's a simple fact: one team was a bit better at sticking the ball in the back of the net. No change there then.

Here's another: some top prima donna stars, from both sides, got their nose put out and didn't like. No change there then.

Here's another: take the shade of blue blinkers off, the ref had a decent game.


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## freddielong (Dec 4, 2016)

Piece said:



			Jeez, there's some blinkered hot air here, again.

Here's a simple fact: one team was a bit better at sticking the ball in the back of the net. No change there then.

Here's another: some top prima donna stars, from both sides, got their nose put out and didn't like. No change there then.

Here's another: take the shade of blue blinkers off, the ref had a decent game.
		
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Except Chelsea should also have finished with 9 men David Luiz should have gone first half and the guy who rushed over and pushed Aguero to the ground after the tackle that sparked the handbags, you cannot raise your hands, and if you want to go letter of the law Cesc slapped Fernandinho.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			He wasn't involved in it, but his attempted elbow which never connected with Kolarov was overshadowed with other unsavoury events on the pitch. If it had of connected we would of been talking a bit more about it now.
		
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I'm sure if you look close enough you could find incidents from both teams that could've been worse.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2016)

Backache said:



			Aguero's tackle was actually far to high to be a likely cause of a bad injury. with a foot planted you need to be below or at about knee level for that. He might have hurt him with that tackle but was unlikely to cause him serious injury.

The other incident wasn't particularly nasty and violent he caught Reid with a forearm when Reid was trying to grapple with him. A sending off nowadays yes but not really very dangerous.
		
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Any bad tackle can cause serious injury even soft tackles can, it was hideous and there is no excusing or explaining it away as less than it was and then to say the Reid wasn't particularly nasty is just as bad, not particularly nasty, does that mean a little bit nasty or not nasty or a smidgen nasty, it's nasty and he will thankfully receive extra games banned on top of the 3.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Except Chelsea should also have finished with 9 men David Luiz should have gone first half and the guy who rushed over and pushed Aguero to the ground after the tackle that sparked the handbags, you cannot raise your hands, and if you want to go letter of the law Cesc slapped Fernandinho.
		
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Fully expect the FA to take action against Fabregas and the guy who pushed Aquero to the ground. Luiz's incident was seen by the Ref so can't see that going any further.


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## Piece (Dec 4, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Except Chelsea should also have finished with 9 men *David Luiz should have gone first half* and the guy who rushed over and pushed Aguero to the ground after the tackle that sparked the handbags, you cannot raise your hands, and if you want to go letter of the law Cesc slapped Fernandinho.
		
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I didn't see that as foul. Nor did the ref....


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## Backache (Dec 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Any bad tackle can cause serious injury even soft tackles can, it was hideous and there is no excusing or explaining it away as less than it was and then to say the Reid wasn't particularly nasty is just as bad, not particularly nasty, does that mean a little bit nasty or not nasty or a smidgen nasty, it's nasty and he will thankfully receive extra games banned on top of the 3.
		
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Any contact could in theory cause an injury even non contact can may footballers hurt themselves going over on their ankles without any contact but in terms of career threatening injuries. Aguero's tackle was highly unlikely to cause it.

As for the Red challenge of course there are degrees of violence and Aguero's was at a pretty low end of it and it was whilst Reid was trying to stop him from playing. Red Card offence? yes Nasty , well only if you think that any physical contact in a contact sport is intrinsically nasty.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2016)

Backache said:



			Any contact could in theory cause an injury even non contact can may footballers hurt themselves going over on their ankles without any contact but in terms of career threatening injuries. Aguero's tackle was highly unlikely to cause it.

As for the Red challenge of course there are degrees of violence and Aguero's was at a pretty low end of it and it was whilst Reid was trying to stop him from playing. Red Card offence? yes Nasty , well only if you think that any physical contact in a contact sport is intrinsically nasty.
		
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He's a superb footballer who can handle himself and never said anywhere there should be no contact, both his Red Cards are Violent Conduct, playing with words and trying to downgrade his behaviour is wrong, both offences could of ended in serious injury, there is no defending either of his actions imo.


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## freddielong (Dec 4, 2016)

Piece said:



			I didn't see that as foul. Nor did the ref....
		
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Ok&#128077;


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## Backache (Dec 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			He's a superb footballer who can handle himself and never said anywhere there should be no contact, both his Red Cards are Violent Conduct, playing with words and trying to downgrade his behaviour is wrong, both offences could of ended in serious injury, there is no defending either of his actions imo.
		
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I am not particularly trying to defend his actions I have said they were both red card offences and as a professional footballer he should know better. But although the term used for the offences is violent conduct there are degrees of violence. 

The Winston Reid offence would only have resulted in serious injury in the most bizarrely improbable circumstance and it was whilst being illegally grappled with. Should he have known better? yes. Was it an action that would be regarded as being particularly violent be most people playing contact sport? I think not.
Yesterdays tackle whilst being definitely illegal was not particularly dangerous, it was at an angle and a height not straight on.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2016)

Backache said:



			I am not particularly trying to defend his actions I have said they were both red card offences and as a professional footballer he should know better. But although the term used for the offences is violent conduct there are degrees of violence. 

The Winston Reid offence would only have resulted in serious injury in the most bizarrely improbable circumstance and it was whilst being illegally grappled with. Should he have known better? yes. Was it an action that would be regarded as being particularly violent be most people playing contact sport? I think not.
Yesterdays tackle whilst being definitely illegal was not particularly dangerous, it was at an angle and a height not straight on.
		
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I'll agree to disagree with you then, because use of elbows could of easily split Reids face or worse caught him in the throat and it seems you are explaining Aqueros tackle as a controlled illegal tackle which imo is even worse as he coukdn't control Luiz's movements and imo was way over the top, vicious and inexcusable


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## Hobbit (Dec 4, 2016)

Backache said:



			I am not particularly trying to defend his actions I have said they were both red card offences and as a professional footballer he should know better. But although the term used for the offences is violent conduct there are degrees of violence. 

The Winston Reid offence would only have resulted in serious injury in the most bizarrely improbable circumstance and it was whilst being illegally grappled with. Should he have known better? yes. Was it an action that would be regarded as being particularly violent be most people playing contact sport? I think not.
Yesterdays tackle whilst being definitely illegal was not particularly dangerous, it was at an angle and a height not straight on.
		
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Aguero's tackle yesterday was knee height and from the side. The knee isn't designed to bend in that direction. If's ands and buts aside, it was dangerous in the extreme.

Elbows, one of which was clearly aimed... he needs a decent ban to give him time to reflect and cool off.

Sledging, both verbal and physical, happens in every game, especially where (almost) man to man marking between defenders and forwards takes place. If Aguero doesn't learn to laugh it off he is going to be targeted by defenders each swapping positions with their team mates to have a go. 

That aside, why is Aguero being made out to be the victim by so many people? Yes, Luiz is hard, and sails up against the line more than most but apart from some basic niggly stuff he did nowt wrong.


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## MegaSteve (Dec 4, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Yes, Luiz is hard, .
		
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You are 'aving a giraffe surely?

Proper hard men don't flail around, dying swan style, when getting some of their own medicine back...


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## Hobbit (Dec 4, 2016)

MegaSteve said:



			You are 'aving a giraffe surely?

Proper hard men don't flail around, dying swan style, when getting some of their own medicine back...
		
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Bet ya 50p you'd run from him.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Fully expect the *FA to take action against* Fabregas and *the guy who pushed Aquero to the ground.* Luiz's incident was seen by the Ref so can't see that going any further.
		
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Why Paul?  Chalobah was booked at the time so i would expect that to be the end of it.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 4, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Why Paul?  Chalobah was booked at the time so i would expect that to be the end of it.
		
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True but Fabregas was clearly shown giving a girlie slap to Fernandinho which, nowadays, would often result in a red card. May not be right but would not rule out retrospective action being taken by the FA.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 4, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			True but Fabregas was clearly shown giving a girlie slap to Fernandinho which, nowadays, would often result in a red card. May not be right but would not rule out retrospective action being taken by the FA.
		
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Not disputing that MM, I only bolded the bit pertaining to Chalobah.  Fully accept Fabregas might get something but Chalobah should be case closed, surely?


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## One Planer (Dec 4, 2016)

Is my TV broken?

Eddie Howe is a magician.


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## Slime (Dec 4, 2016)

Wow!
Just got in, turned on the telly and saw Bournemouth scoring their fourth goal!


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## pokerjoke (Dec 4, 2016)

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::whoo::whoo::whoo::whoo::whoo::whoo::whoo::whoo::whoo::whoo::whoo::whoo::whoo::whoo:What a bunch of amateurs


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Why Paul?  Chalobah was booked at the time so i would expect that to be the end of it.
		
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Apologies mate, thought he'd escaped a Red in the melee, can't see how it's a yellow though under current rules.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 4, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Not disputing that MM, I only bolded the bit pertaining to Chalobah.  Fully accept Fabregas might get something but Chalobah should be case closed, surely?
		
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Yes, retrospective action is only for incidents where the ref "hasn't seen it" and as Chalobah received a yellow that is not the case for him so end of story.

It's only Fabregas who could be in trouble.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Apologies mate, thought he'd escaped a Red in the melee, can't see how it's a yellow though under current rules.
		
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Like you mate, I'm surprised he escaped a red but under the current rules if he's been booked then that's it, yes?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2016)

Switched off after Can's cracker!! What did I miss? thought it was all over. Will have to catch the highlights later.


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## sawtooth (Dec 4, 2016)

Wow Bournemouth!

Woeful defending by Liverpool and more evidence that they tire as the game goes on.

The downside to playing with such high intensity I suppose, need to pace themselves lol.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Switched off after Can's cracker!! What did I miss? thought it was all over. Will have to catch the highlights later.
		
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Well the chant from the Bournemouth fans at the end was "3 - 1, and you mucked it up".  Well it sounded like muckedâ€¦.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Well the chant from the Bournemouth fans at the end was "3 - 1, and you mucked it up".  Well it sounded like muckedâ€¦. 

Click to expand...

Big weekend for Chelsea and Arsenal, bit of a gap forming at the top, I wonder if it's a sign of the season ahead. :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Like you mate, I'm surprised he escaped a red but under the current rules if he's been booked then that's it, yes?
		
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Yes if the ref has dealt with the incident on the pitch then it can't be reviewed unless the ref asks for it 


And got to take your hats off to Bournemouth and that young lad Fraser , what a comeback and what an impact from him. Very lazy from us today - poor concentration when the game should have been buried, got to use it as a kick in the backside and move on from it. Think Matip the big miss.


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## PhilTheFragger (Dec 4, 2016)

Wow credit to Bournemouth, Liverpool cant afford to lose games like that if they want to win anything


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## sawtooth (Dec 4, 2016)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Wow credit to Bournemouth, Liverpool cant afford to lose games like that if they want to win anything
		
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Premiership winning teams generally have a great goalkeeper and I don't think Liverpool have one.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2016)

Shocking challenge - red card all day long


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## Hobbit (Dec 4, 2016)

Two footed tackle!! How on earth is he still on the pitch??


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## garyinderry (Dec 4, 2016)

Horrible tackle. No excuse.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 4, 2016)

Looks like Marcus Rojo has just eclipsed Aguero on the dangerous tackle front and got away with only a yellow.

Edit; must learn to type quicker.


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## SaintHacker (Dec 4, 2016)

Unbelievable.  What the hell is the ref playing at?


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## Hobbit (Dec 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Premiership winning teams generally have a great goalkeeper and I don't think Liverpool have one.
		
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I'll help you out there Sean. Liverpool definitely don't have a keeper of Prem standard - I think they get their keepers from the local park on the way to the match


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 4, 2016)

Can't see this ending 11 a side.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 4, 2016)

Rojo off terrible challenge.Barry should have been booked but big credit to IBRA for not rolling around.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I'm sure if you look close enough you could find incidents from both teams that could've been worse.
		
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Without a shadow of doubt, but I was responding to Costas new found innocence. Strangely enough, all of City's misdemeanours were punished and rightly so. The arguement is that not all of Chelsea's were.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Without a shadow of doubt, but I was responding to Costas new found innocence. Strangely enough, all of City's misdemeanours were punished and rightly so. The arguement is that not all of Chelsea's were.
		
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Tashy, even the Chelsea fans have a pop at Costa, he was still irrelevant when discussing Aquero's tackle though&#128515;


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## Hobbit (Dec 4, 2016)

Am I watching a Championship match? There's more errors from both sides than between a Basil Fawlty 11 'v' a Mr Bean 11.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Am I watching a Championship match? There's more errors from both sides than between a Basil Fawlty 11 'v' a Mr Bean 11.
		
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Struggling to remember if there has been a shot on goal ( on or off target ?)


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## freddielong (Dec 4, 2016)

Wow, watched the first 25 of the Liverpool game they were so dominant how on earth did they loose.


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## sawtooth (Dec 4, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Wow, watched the first 25 of the Liverpool game they were so dominant how on earth did they loose.
		
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They ran out of steam and let Bournemouth back into it. Karius had a shocker which didn't help.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 4, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Without a shadow of doubt, but I was responding to Costas new found innocence. *Strangely enough, all of City's misdemeanours were punished* and rightly so. The arguement is that not all of Chelsea's were.
		
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Not even close, you really are having a laugh.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			They ran out of steam and let Bournemouth back into it. Karius had a shocker which didn't help.
		
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Ran out of steam ? Sorry but that doesn't give Bournemouth enough credit ( I know it fits in with your theory about the team tiring but that's not why we lost ) 

Bournemouth gained the momentum and capalisted on silly mistakes


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2016)

Same old, same old, hoping Koeman can find something, rubbish form continues!


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## Tashyboy (Dec 4, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Wow, watched the first 25 of the Liverpool game they were so dominant how on earth did they loose.
		
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Same way city did yesterday ?


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## sawtooth (Dec 4, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ran out of steam ? Sorry but that doesn't give Bournemouth enough credit ( I know it fits in with your theory about the team tiring but that's not why we lost ) 

Bournemouth gained the momentum and capalisted on silly mistakes
		
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So tiredness doesnt lead to silly mistakes?!


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## Tashyboy (Dec 4, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Not even close, you really are having a laugh.
		
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Well I will try and make it easy for you. make a list of the City offences that were not punished then do the same for Chelsea's. Obviously I am not even close so it should be easy for you.


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## sawtooth (Dec 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Same old, same old, hoping Koeman can find something, rubbish form continues!
		
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I know your keeper was at fault but Ko eman will not be happy with the defender trotting back, If he followed up properly he would have easily prevented that goal.


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## garyinderry (Dec 4, 2016)

Neville calling that right.  Naughty indeed.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2016)

Now is Ibrahimovic a very lucky person there - bringing the heel down on his head ?


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## garyinderry (Dec 4, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Now is Ibrahimovic a very lucky person there - bringing the heel down on his head ?
		
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He knew exactly what he was doing.  Saw red after being out muscled.


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## Slime (Dec 4, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Now is Ibrahimovic a very lucky person there - bringing the heel down on his head ?
		
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I don't think so.
Rojo certainly is though ................. horrid challenge.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2016)

Slime said:



			I don't think so.
Rojo certainly is though ................. horrid challenge.
		
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He is more than lucky - should have been the second red of the day, knew what he was doing and didn't have to put his foot down on his head.


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## PhilTheFragger (Dec 4, 2016)

https://www.facebook.com/ynfafootball/videos/1210823325621227/

Liverpool fans on social media tonight 

Shamelessly stolen from Facebook


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## freddielong (Dec 4, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Same way city did yesterday ?
		
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Similar but much more so Bournemouth couldn't get out of their half for 25 minutes


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 4, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Well I will try and make it easy for you. make a list of the City offences that were not punished then do the same for Chelsea's. Obviously I am not even close so it should be easy for you.
		
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I managed to see the first half  and Fernandinho was certainly "at it". Should, at least, have had a yellow before half-time. Mind you he was the only City player putting in much of a challenge.

As a neutral I could not understand Guardiola going three at the back when he had not got the players for that formation. No wing backs and the centre-backs not good enough.


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## ger147 (Dec 4, 2016)

Great substitution...


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## Fish (Dec 4, 2016)

If the fuzzy one wants to keep arguing give him a red  &#128540;


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## Fish (Dec 4, 2016)

Well now I know why they call it Super Sunday  &#128526;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2016)

Happy with the point but not the performance, still lacking something, glad the Man Utd team that played midweek didn't turn up!


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2016)

With the way the review system works - Rojo will no doubt get away with that shocking challenge , that was the worst of the weekend but will Ibrahimovic get punishment for what he did ? 

Good substitution from Maureen bringing on Sideshow Bob - worked out well


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## Fish (Dec 4, 2016)

Top 5 now pulling away, 6-12 can fight over the scraps, United irrelevant of any current form can kiss goodbye to top 4 now IMO.


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## sawtooth (Dec 4, 2016)

Fish said:



			Top 5 now pulling away, 6-12 can fight over the scraps, United irrelevant of any current form can kiss goodbye to top 4 now IMO.
		
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Yeah because those 2 points are going to make all the difference with 5 months of the season to go ?!

Still no definites in early December.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah because those 2 points are going to make all the difference with 5 months of the season to go ?!

Still no definites in early December.
		
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It's a pretty big gap so early in the season especially when they aren't stringing results together and the other teams are . Fully agree with Fish - the top 5 will pull away and Utd won't bridge the gap.


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## Hobbit (Dec 4, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's a pretty big gap so early in the season especially when they aren't stringing results together and the other teams are . Fully agree with Fish - the top 5 will pull away and Utd won't bridge the gap.
		
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Utd should be worrying about staying in the top 10, or looking further down. They were rubbish. Everton were Everton. Disappointing but it is beginning to look like the new manager is dealing with the dross that the previous manager had to deal with.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Utd should be worrying about staying in the top 10, or looking further down. They were rubbish. Everton were Everton. Disappointing but it is beginning to look like the new manager is dealing with the dross that the previous manager had to deal with.
		
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They have spent Â£400mil ( not including the Ibrahimovic sign on ) in the past three seasons ( since summer 2014 ) - and it's hard to see where the quality is beyond the GK


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## Hobbit (Dec 4, 2016)

Can you see them keeping De Gea with yet another season of no CL ahead?


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## Fish (Dec 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah because those 2 points are going to make all the difference with 5 months of the season to go ?!

Still no definites in early December.
		
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There a clear 9 points away from 4th now you knob, the 2 points dropped today just supports the fact that those above them are more consistent,  your opinion is worth squat now anyway with your latest drivel.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Can you see them keeping De Gea with yet another season of no CL ahead?
		
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Fully expect him to go this summer - would think to Madrid but would be interesting to see if City went for him


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 4, 2016)

Wow, What a day for comebacks. Watched AFC Wimbledon get out of jail in the cup but usurped in grand fashion by Liverpool. Saw the first two goals, both taken and thought they'd win with ease. Even when they got back to 3-1 up it looked a certain three points. What a fightback from Bournemouth and I still maintain that Liverpool need a real top class keeper and don't think Karius is it

Some very poor tackles in the Everton v United game that I thought were red cards. What was Fellaini doing? I think he's an accident waiting to happen most games and don't rate him at all


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## Fish (Dec 4, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Can you see them keeping De Gea with yet another season of no CL ahead?
		
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No, clubs will be queuing up to prise him away from an average team at best.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah because those 2 points are going to make all the difference with 5 months of the season to go ?!

Still no definites in early December.
		
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Have to agree with Fish I'm afraid. United aren't good enough at this time and you can't see them going on any sort of winning run to close the gap and squeeze into fourth


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## Fish (Dec 4, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Have to agree with Fish I'm afraid. United aren't good enough at this time and you can't see them going on any sort of winning run to close the gap and squeeze into fourth
		
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It's not just a case of the them or anyone going on a run of form, it's the expectancy of teams already above them going into reverse over the same amount of matches, it ain't gonna happen!


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 4, 2016)

Fish said:



			It's not just a case of the them or anyone going on a run of form, it's the expectancy of teams already above them going into reverse over the same amount of matches, it ain't gonna happen!
		
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Surely it's going to need both. United need to win, and win often and the top four need to drop points often. As you say, won't happen


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They have spent Â£400mil ( not including the Ibrahimovic sign on ) in the past three seasons ( since summer 2014 ) - and it's hard to see where the quality is beyond the GK
		
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Jose has been in post 4 months and has to be given time. The players he's signed are a different class to what was bought before him, is it fair to bring Rodgers signings in to a discussion about Klopp or Martinez's for Koeman.


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## Hobbit (Dec 4, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Surely it's going to need both. United need to win, and win often and the top four need to drop points often. As you say, won't happen
		
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You might get one or two teams having a dodgy patch, probably Arsenal, but the only gives Utd an opportunity to catch them. Just can't see that AND Utd improving.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 4, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			You might get one or two teams having a dodgy patch, probably Arsenal, but the only gives Utd an opportunity to catch them. Just can't see that AND Utd improving.
		
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A case could be made for every one of the top four having a poor second half of the season. At least two have suspect defences and dodgy keepers, all are heavily reliant upon one or two key players and, therefore, injuries could be an issue. Some have disciplinary worries.

However, it is hard to see more than one imploding.

Hang about; what happened last year? Lightning couldn't strike twice, could it?


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Jose has been in post 4 months and has to be given time. The players he's signed are a different class to what was bought before him, is it fair to bring Rodgers signings in to a discussion about Klopp or Martinez's for Koeman.
		
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Will Jose get too much time. I can see him getting the summer to get rid of the rubbish and get in those he wants, but if in twelve months time United are still out of the top four and so far adrift will he be given more time after that? To me he seems to have been found out tactically but is that down to the team he's able to put out


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## anotherdouble (Dec 4, 2016)

I think this is their limit. They will win some but never get into the top 4 with this squad


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## MegaSteve (Dec 4, 2016)

For me, Pogba hasn't looked anywhere near being an Â£80M player...


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## sawtooth (Dec 4, 2016)

MegaSteve said:



			For me, Pogba hasn't looked anywhere near being an Â£80M player...
		
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You have to give him a bit of time, I remember people saying Ozil didn't look a Â£42M player when he came to Arsenal. He's worth probably more now.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 4, 2016)

MegaSteve said:



			For me, Pogba hasn't looked anywhere near being an Â£80M player...
		
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Hasn't looked an Â£8M player so far. Very disappointing


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## Kellfire (Dec 4, 2016)

Statistically Pogba is United's most influential player this season.


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## USER1999 (Dec 4, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			You might get one or two teams having a dodgy patch, probably Arsenal, but the only gives Utd an opportunity to catch them. Just can't see that AND Utd improving.
		
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Um, we are looking better. Just need to look after sanchez, and tie his contract down, along with ozil, get a couple of players back, and we are bolted on fourth place. Sorted.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 4, 2016)

Backache said:



			Any contact could in theory cause an injury even non contact can may footballers hurt themselves going over on their ankles without any contact but in terms of career threatening injuries. Aguero's tackle was highly unlikely to cause it.

As for the Red challenge of course there are degrees of violence and Aguero's was at a pretty low end of it and it was whilst Reid was trying to stop him from playing. Red Card offence? yes Nasty , well only if you think that any physical contact in a contact sport is intrinsically nasty.
		
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Do you think Aguero should only get the standard 3 match ban, for that tackle?

That tackle at least deserves another 1 game, minimum, otherwise there is no deterrent. Sometimes you have to punish for the intent of a tackle, rather than the result of it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Do you think Aguero should only get the standard 3 match ban, for that tackle?

That tackle at least deserves another 1 game, minimum, otherwise there is no deterrent. Sometimes you have to punish for the intent of a tackle, rather than the result of it.
		
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I believe it's an automatic 4 match ban as it's his second Red Card this season, whether they give anymore is anyones guess.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 4, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Why Paul?  Chalobah was booked at the time so i would expect that to be the end of it.
		
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Me too, Chalobah's push want that bad, yellow yes, but no worse.

Ive never bought into this "he raised his hands" guff, which is mainly something spouted by telly pundits. To me, its mainly based on if you push/punch/elbow the head, and not so much doing it to someones chest.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Wow Bournemouth!

Woeful defending by Liverpool and more evidence that they tire as the game goes on.

The downside to playing with such high intensity I suppose, need to pace themselves lol.
		
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Absolute rubbish, nothing to do with tiredness, just to do with rank bad defending. How many have we scored in the last 10-15 minutes, compared to what we've conceded?

Today was what sums the premiership up, you just cant relax as no-one gives up.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 4, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Premiership winning teams generally have a great goalkeeper and I don't think Liverpool have one.
		
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Totally correct, with regards to our keeper, although youse won it with Lehmann.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I believe it's an automatic 4 match ban as it's his second Red Card this season, whether they give anymore is anyones guess.
		
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Correct, but that is the standard 3, plus the standard one, as he has had the second red card.

There is no decision making in that process. I'm asking if more games should be added on, on top of the 3+1, due to the nature of that tackle, and IMO, it should be another 1-2 (and not because it would mean him missing our game). 

By the end of the season that will be in the worst 2-3 tackles of the season. Today Rojo's was a red, but still not in the same ball park as Aguero's.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 4, 2016)

I didnt see the last 30 mins of the Everton game, but hardly any Everton play was through the midfield, with most balls into Luaku coming from 50 yards away.

Rank bad, and amateur defending by United for the pen - must have been watching us earlier, eh Tony? :rofl:


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## Tashyboy (Dec 5, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Correct, but that is the standard 3, plus the standard one, as he has had the second red card.

There is no decision making in that process. I'm asking if more games should be added on, on top of the 3+1, due to the nature of that tackle, and IMO, it should be another 1-2 (and not because it would mean him missing our game). 

By the end of the season that will be in the worst 2-3 tackles of the season. Today Rojo's was a red, but still not in the same ball park as Aguero's.
		
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just watched Dermot Gallachers assessment of " iffy decisions " over the weekend. Re the tree main talking points, Agueros was bad very bad and he knows what is coming. Gareth Barry's, very naughty that was a potential leg snapper.  Rojos was worse than Barry's. They are career threatening tackles. Cannot understand how they were not reds, what I cannot also understand is that say an attempted elbow is missed by the ref, you can make retrospective decisions on a Monday. Why not with tackles like those.
Having said all that there was some excellent decisions by refs as well.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 5, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			just watched Dermot Gallachers assessment of " iffy decisions " over the weekend. Re the tree main talking points, Agueros was bad very bad and he knows what is coming. Gareth Barry's, very naughty that was a potential leg snapper.  Rojos was worse than Barry's. They are career threatening tackles. Cannot understand how they were not reds, what I cannot also understand is that say an attempted elbow is missed by the ref, you can make retrospective decisions on a Monday. Why not with tackles like those.
Having said all that there was some excellent decisions by refs as well.
		
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I haven't seen the Barry one, as didn't see all the match.

It all stems from this ridiculous thing that if the ref has given a yellow, it has been dealt with.

A typical example would be that if the ref has somehow inexplicable missed Agueros tackle (in the same way Rojo's was), that Aguero would only get a yellow, but as it has been seen he will miss 4 games minimum, possibly 5-6.

All players/clubs have gained from it and all been on the wrong end of it, but all-in-all its a woeful perspective of it all from the FA.


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## freddielong (Dec 5, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I haven't seen the Barry one, as didn't see all the match.

It all stems from this ridiculous thing that if the ref has given a yellow, it has been dealt with.

A typical example would be that if the ref has somehow inexplicable missed Agueros tackle (in the same way Rojo's was), that Aguero would only get a yellow, but as it has been seen he will miss 4 games minimum, possibly 5-6.

All players/clubs have gained from it and all been on the wrong end of it, but all-in-all its a woeful perspective of it all from the FA.
		
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I think also if the ref has seen it and dealt with it (rightly or wrongly ) if you then change that you are under mining the refs authority on the pitch, if the ref didn't see it then it's fair game.


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## Hobbit (Dec 5, 2016)

MegaSteve said:



			For me, Pogba hasn't looked anywhere near being an Â£80M player...
		
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He may not be firing on all cylinders but I thought he was half decent yesterday. Mind you, it wasn't hard to shine in that rubbish. Woeful game for the spectator.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 5, 2016)

I don't see that reviewing decisions undermines refs. It doesn't in cricket, rugby looks at bad tackles after the game. A ref doesn't have a perfect view, cameras do. The Rojo tackle was a horror and I think if the ref see that again from the better camera angles he would acknowledge it is a sure fire red. Now Rojo escapes punishment. That is just wrong when his tackle was just as career threatening as the Aguero one on Saturday. Surely the important thing is to reach the correct decision whether during or after the match when it comes to red card offences.


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## stokie_93 (Dec 5, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't see that reviewing decisions undermines refs. It doesn't in cricket, rugby looks at bad tackles after the game. A ref doesn't have a perfect view, cameras do. The Rojo tackle was a horror and I think if the ref see that again from the better camera angles he would acknowledge it is a sure fire red. Now Rojo escapes punishment. That is just wrong when his tackle was just as career threatening as the Aguero one on Saturday. Surely the important thing is to reach the correct decision whether during or after the match when it comes to red card offences.
		
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Iâ€™m totally with you on this, I cant believe that itâ€™s not been brought in to football as of yet.

Itâ€™d also prevent so many decisions, look at Dele Alliâ€™s dive at the weekend for instance.
Ashley Barnes shouldâ€™ve been off against us at the weekend for a blatant elbow but the ref didnâ€™t see it. Being able to review play would clearly show these things.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 5, 2016)

Yes Pete rank defending.Overall once again we were better than the opposition but failed to get a 2nd,I for one don't understand why we are failing to kill teams off I really thought we were turning a corner.I still believe 4th is there and am more worried of Spurs than Liverpool no surprise there.Apart from when Liverpool came 2nd for the last 10 years they have been miles behind and their main problem has always been weaker teams.Long way to go but a run is on its way.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Yes Pete rank defending.Overall once again we were better than the opposition but failed to get a 2nd,I for one don't understand why we are failing to kill teams off I really thought we were turning a corner.I still believe 4th is there and am more worried of Spurs than Liverpool no surprise there.Apart from when Liverpool came 2nd for the last 10 years they have been miles behind and their main problem has always been weaker teams.Long way to go but a run is on its way.
		
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As much as I didn't rate us, Steklenburg didn't have one save to make, De Gea was far busier, surely to kill teams off you've got to create chances, you only had slightly more possession less attempts at goal and less on target. apart from Herrera hitting the woodwork you just didn't create the chances or play anywhere near as well as midweek against West Ham, as Hobbit put woeful game.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 5, 2016)

Two out of form teams. I must get a pair of Maureen's glasses, he was watching a different match to everyone else.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 5, 2016)

Paul woeful game yes but up until your goal I never felt we were going to lose,once you scored yes the crowd woke up and you pressed but once we had 1 I would have liked to c Mate and Rashford and go for a 2nd as appossed to Fellaini as a more defence minded player.Onwards and upwards hopefully.


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## MegaSteve (Dec 5, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			He may not be firing on all cylinders but I thought he was half decent yesterday. Mind you, it wasn't hard to shine in that rubbish. Woeful game for the spectator.
		
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You've summed it up perfectly... On a day he could've/should've shone he was "half decent" and that's it... Yes, I am sure some days he will shine but for Â£80M I'd be expecting a lot better... Thought Jose intended to build his team around him... Reckon he'll be having to rethink that...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Paul woeful game yes but up until your goal I never felt we were going to lose,once you scored yes the crowd woke up and you pressed but once we had 1 I would have liked to c Mate and Rashford and go for a 2nd as appossed to Fellaini as a more defence minded player.Onwards and upwards hopefully.
		
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The 2 saves from De Gea were prior to the penalty and for all your posession you's really didn't create anything, even your goal was more down to an error, I was pleased when I saw Mata on the bench, if you'd gone for it after half time it would of been better, I was surprised how early your players started time wasting, probably better trying to kill teams off than protecting one goal. Rashford needs more time on the pitch and I thought Carrick was your best player, he seemed to be everywhere.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 5, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't see that reviewing decisions undermines refs. It doesn't in cricket, rugby looks at bad tackles after the game. A ref doesn't have a perfect view, cameras do. The Rojo tackle was a horror and I think if the ref see that again from the better camera angles he would acknowledge it is a sure fire red. Now Rojo escapes punishment. That is just wrong when his tackle was just as career threatening as the Aguero one on Saturday. Surely the important thing is to reach the correct decision whether during or after the match when it comes to red card offences.
		
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Cameras certainly don't have a perfect view, they are only two-dimensional so they lack depth perception. 

They may help but they are not infallible.

Personally I would like to see a return to the attitude where the ref is right even when he is wrong but I realise that is not going to happen. Too many smart arse analysts and TV viewers with their Super Slow-Mo and 17 different camera angles.

All reflects the society we live in. Don't like a ref's decision, demand a review. Don't like a referendum result, demand a rerun.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 5, 2016)

MM - I'm afraid those days have long gone. The moment we got 20 cameras at a match, sports phone ins, 24hr sports news channels to fill. I actually agree with you and in my own sporting days any question of a decision was done in the bar after a game, camly and politely. Refs/umpires encouraged it, after the match of course, and all parties learnt something from the experience. Sometimes that the ref was a prat but usually why the decision was made, even if it was a wrong decision. 

TV cameras don't offer perfection but I bet Michael Oilver wishes he could have seen that tackle again in slow motion and from three different angles. He doesn't get that luxury which is why I have not criticised him at all, just the system that allows the offender to escape. The refs assessor will have seen it and reported it, that's for sure.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 5, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			MM - I'm afraid those days have long gone. The moment we got 20 cameras at a match, sports phone ins, 24hr sports news channels to fill. I actually agree with you and in my own sporting days any question of a decision was done in the bar after a game, camly and politely. Refs/umpires encouraged it, after the match of course, and all parties learnt something from the experience. Sometimes that the ref was a prat but usually why the decision was made, even if it was a wrong decision. 

TV cameras don't offer perfection but I bet Michael Oilver wishes he could have seen that tackle again in slow motion and from three different angles. He doesn't get that luxury which is why I have not criticised him at all, just the system that allows the offender to escape. The refs assessor will have seen it and reported it, that's for sure.
		
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But why would the ref wish he had the benefit of the cameras. After all the more dependence upon cameras the less necessity there is for a "real" ref.

I know it is now too late and the genie is out of the bottle but if I could prevail upon sporting authorities to make one rule it would be to ban TV replays. Incidents involving contentious decisions cannot be rerun on the "big screen" in the stadium in order to protect the ref's integrity so they would merely have to extend that ruling to all TV pictures.

BTW I agree that Rojo's tackle was a disgrace but there will have been others this week-end in games where there are few if any cameras so the perpetrators of those will escape.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Cameras certainly don't have a perfect view, they are only two-dimensional so they lack depth perception. 

They may help but they are not infallible.

Personally I would like to see a return to the attitude where the ref is right even when he is wrong but I realise that is not going to happen. Too many smart arse analysts and TV viewers with their Super Slow-Mo and 17 different camera angles.

All reflects the society we live in. Don't like a ref's decision, demand a review. Don't like a referendum result, demand a rerun.
		
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So should we just smile when Deli Alli blantantly cheats and fools the Ref into making a genuine mistake, or should we look to help the officials? and stop the cheats?


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 5, 2016)

If he had the benefit of the camera then he could be more certain of his decision. I can not believe the ref will look back at that decision and think he got it right. All refs want to get decisions correct. They make a decision based on what their eyes tell them based on their view. Have a different angle, closer and without obstruction, and the chances are the decision will be more accurate. It may be the same decision but sometimes it wont.

The last paragraph is the Fifa view on these things on the whole. Either everyone has it or no one does. I don't agree with that. You want to be getting more decisions right, not fewer. I suspect any poor challenge in the PL or Championship will be picked up. That is a pretty good start. Maybe it will drift down to the next division as well but if it doesn't then does that mean the top two divisions ignore bad tackles? The PL is meant to be the elite so they should have everything available to them. Similar to cricket where international cricket gets reviews, county cricket doesn't.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So should we just smile when Deli Alli blantantly cheats and fools the Ref into making a genuine mistake, or should we look to help the officials? and stop the cheats?
		
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Life is full of disappointments! 

No system is perfect so let's just move on and be mature. Like the Stones said:- "you can't always get what you want."


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## Doon frae Troon (Dec 5, 2016)

Liverpool defending that goal......five defenders in touching distance of lone attacker who takes a touch, controls ball and shoots @ best league in the world .com

Cumnock Juniors would have had one defender blocking, one elbowing him in the face, one taking him off at the knees whilst the other two watched and laughed.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 5, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Life is full of disappointments! 

No system is perfect so let's just move on and be mature. Like the Stones said:- "you can't always get what you want."
		
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Many other sports have embraced the use of modern technology to help the sport and it's officials. Only in football is there this belief that it will undermine the refs. By helping the refs and looking at decisions afterwards it might actually improve the refs performance and might actually give the players something to think about. 

Sport is massive in the world now - football for one is huge in financial terms - got to help minimise the risks of mistakes as much as possible - use technology to help and improve the sport as it has done for many others


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## stokie_93 (Dec 5, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Many other sports have embraced the use of modern technology to help the sport and it's officials. Only in football is there this belief that it will undermine the refs. By helping the refs and looking at decisions afterwards it might actually improve the refs performance and might actually give the players something to think about.
		
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I watch sports like Rugby and it must fill the refs with confidence knowing they wonâ€™t get ridiculed for a decision if they get it wrong because they have that backing there.
The amount of abuse they get off players/managers could so easily be cut out by investing in technology like that.
Theyâ€™ve done it for goal line technology so why canâ€™t it be done for other areas.
All you have to do is look at cricket, thereâ€™s so much technology behind it now so why canâ€™t football follow suit?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Life is full of disappointments! 

No system is perfect so let's just move on and be mature. Like the Stones said:- "you can't always get what you want."
		
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A dodgy decision, 2 players fully committed, no issue, blatant cheating!! No I won't accept that, what if it's the difference between promotion and relegation?


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 5, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Yes, retrospective action is only for incidents where the ref "hasn't seen it" and as Chalobah received a yellow that is not the case for him so end of story.

*It's only Fabregas who could be in trouble.*

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Or possibly not; according to the report in The Times, he was given a yellow card for his part in the handbags so he may be off the hook as well.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Or possibly not; according to the report in The Times, he was given a yellow card for his part in the handbags so he may be off the hook as well.
		
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Just checked Sky and he was booked in the 98th minute, only charges maybe to both teams for failing to control their players, the FA use that when they've ran out of ideas.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 5, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Many other sports have embraced the use of modern technology to help the sport and it's officials. Only in football is there this belief that it will undermine the refs. By helping the refs and looking at decisions afterwards it might actually improve the refs performance and might actually give the players something to think about. 

Sport is massive in the world now - football for one is huge in financial terms - got to help minimise the risks of mistakes as much as possible - use technology to help and improve the sport as it has done for many others
		
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Other sports have breaks in play facilitating the use of replays, football does not. Crowds are not going to be happy waiting on the result of a TV replay that is, after all, only being used to satisfy the demands of those not attending the match.

So TV replays would not benefit the game for those at the game.

And if you seriously think that the possible use of retrospective replays will somehow stop or deter players from diving or making dangerous tackles you clearly have not played the game. These sort of actions are instinctive not premeditated and the use of replays has not stopped them yet, nor will it.

As for sport being massive and huge in financial terms; so what?

Refs, like players, make mistakes that affect the outcome of games, that is part of *SPORT.
*


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## Tashyboy (Dec 5, 2016)

What does me about the cameras using them to right wrongs. Is that we already do. Viewers on Sky, BT or whoever you watch your live football with, within seconds have numerous angles to see " said incidents". I want to talk about a game of football when it has finished who was good and who was crap. I want to hear Gary Nevilles excellent analogy of games. But more and more the talk is not about football, but penaltys that were not given or given, Cheating, bad tackles. offside or not offside. 
Ironic that now even Dermot Gallacher has said it is time for replays to be involved. Again to not even give it a try I find astounding, bit like goal line technology there are those that did not want it, but now is the norm.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Other sports have breaks in play facilitating the use of replays, football does not. Crowds are not going to be happy waiting on the result of a TV replay that is, after all, only being used to satisfy the demands of those not attending the match.

So TV replays would not benefit the game for those at the game.

And if you seriously think that the possible use of retrospective replays will somehow stop or deter players from diving or making dangerous tackles you clearly have not played the game. These sort of actions are instinctive not premeditated and the use of replays has not stopped them yet, nor will it.

As for sport being massive and huge in financial terms; so what?

Refs, like players, make mistakes that affect the outcome of games, that is part of *SPORT.
*

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Big difference between a genuine mistake and deliberately cheating.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 5, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Other sports have breaks in play facilitating the use of replays, football does not. Crowds are not going to be happy waiting on the result of a TV replay that is, after all, only being used to satisfy the demands of those not attending the match.
		
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I don't advocate the use of to replays during the game but crowds is every other sport don't seem to have a problem waiting for a replay to ensure the decision is correct - why would football crowds be different ? 



			So TV replays would not benefit the game for those at the game.
		
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Why not when other sport crowds benefit from them ? Is there something different with a football, crowd ?




			And if you seriously think that the possible use of retrospective replays will somehow stop or deter players from diving or making dangerous tackles you clearly have not played the game. These sort of actions are instinctive not premeditated and the use of replays has not stopped them yet, nor will it.

As for sport being massive and huge in financial terms; so what?

Refs, like players, make mistakes that affect the outcome of games, that is part of *SPORT.
*

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The use of retrospective bans and checking of the game video would ensure players that have gone over the line face the punishment their actions deserve - plenty players over the years have gotten away with it in football - other sports ensure those players don't so again why is football any different - why can't a panel look at the video from the weekend and decide that clearly Rojo should have had a red , Barnes a red , Chalaboh and Fabregas red - then players haven't got away with their actions 

Refs do make mistakes in other sports but they also happy and confident that if they do miss something it will be picked up later - and it can work both ways - reds and yellow that shouldn't have been given are removed 

The sooner football embraces the further use of technology the better the sport will be


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 5, 2016)

Football crowds are not different. The game is.

In Rugby there are set-plays; scrums, line-outs etc; Cricket effectively has a break in play after each delivery.

Football does not have these breaks and, as a frequent attendee at matches, I believe it is better for that.

Goal-line technology is OK since it is instantaneous and does not require any interruption.

With regard to your penultimate paragraph I would say that we already have most of that. Players are issued with a retrospective red card for incidents not covered by the ref's report and red cards issued at the time can be appealed against. Yellow cards cannot.

I am sorry but realistically I cannot see how the increased use of technology can improve the game. After all you have frequently reminded us of the financial success that is the EPL so it can't be that bad.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Football crowds are not different. The game is.

In Rugby there are set-plays; scrums, line-outs etc; Cricket effectively has a break in play after each delivery.

Football does not have these breaks and, as a frequent attendee at matches, I believe it is better for that.

Goal-line technology is OK since it is instantaneous and does not require any interruption.

With regard to your penultimate paragraph I would say that we already have most of that. Players are issued with a retrospective red card for incidents not covered by the ref's report and red cards issued at the time can be appealed against. Yellow cards cannot.

I am sorry but realistically I cannot see how the increased use of technology can improve the game. After all you have frequently reminded us of the financial success that is the EPL so it can't be that bad.
		
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Corners, throw ins, free kicks, goal kicks, fouls, substitutions etc plenty of breaks in play. The last study in to time the ball is actually in play found it was only in play for 64 minutes.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Corners, throw ins, free kicks, goal kicks, fouls, substitutions etc plenty of breaks in play. The last study in to time the ball is actually in play found it was only in play for 64 minutes.
		
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If you, like me, actually attend matches you will not want to be sat around waiting for a review of an incident involving slow-mo and several camera angles.

Crowds already get restless if they think too much time is being taken over a goal-kick or throw in. We do not want the game to become like the NFL.


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## MegaSteve (Dec 5, 2016)

Sadly, in my opinion, video reviews will eventually come to the prem... Reason being the TV audience is now way more important than the folk that come through the turnstiles... Don't go too often these days but have spent way too much time freezing me proverbials off standing on windy terraces to have the patience for multiple reviews only for the powers that be to still get it wrong... As I have witnessed in recent times at rugby...


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## Papas1982 (Dec 5, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			If you, like me, actually attend matches you will not want to be sat around waiting for a review of an incident involving slow-mo and several camera angles.

Crowds already get restless if they think too much time is being taken over a goal-kick or throw in. We do not want the game to become like the NFL.
		
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Im fully in this camp. Retro punishment, absolutely. But once we agree to replays for one thing, say penalties, people will want offside, fouls, corners. 

Cricket lasts a day, the extension is minimal, rugby I can't comment on really as don't watch enough. But IMO games would end up being nearer 2hours minimum with replays.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			If you, like me, actually attend matches you will not want to be sat around waiting for a review of an incident involving slow-mo and several camera angles.

Crowds already get restless if they think too much time is being taken over a goal-kick or throw in. We do not want the game to become like the NFL.
		
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That's a culture thing, why do you think it is going to add so long? Some games will have no incidents, others may have a few, middle ground could be so many challenges per side, ie 2 per half. 
I rather be at a match taking a few minutes longer and decisions were correct rather than travelling home feeling we were robbed.
The England v Australia Rugby match was a perfect example of how it works without adding much time.
The fear it's going to add 10-30 minutes to a game is unfounded and used as a scare tactic.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Im fully in this camp. Retro punishment, absolutely. But once we agree to replays for one thing, say penalties, people will want offside, fouls, corners. 

Cricket lasts a day, the extension is minimal, rugby I can't comment on really as don't watch enough. But IMO games would end up being nearer 2hours minimum with replays.
		
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To me it should be all or nothing, it's ok saying goal or no goal but what if that decision follows on from an incorrectly awarded throw-in, corner
or offside.


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## Slime (Dec 5, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The sooner football embraces the further use of technology the better the sport will be
		
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I think it really is that simple :thup:.


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## MegaSteve (Dec 5, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The sooner football embraces the further use of technology the better the sport will be
		
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Yep, It will make a real difference to those playing the game on the 'marshes'...


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 5, 2016)

freddielong said:



			I think also if the ref has seen it and dealt with it (rightly or wrongly ) if you then change that you are under mining the refs authority on the pitch, if the ref didn't see it then it's fair game.
		
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Maybe if the're arrogant enough to think they are always right.

I would love to see rugby refs and cricket umpires (who have spanned the before and after of video refereeing), to see what their views were, before and after it came in. It would be interesting reading.

The difference shouldnt be 1 yellow or 5 games out, just cos a ref misses it, or bottles a decision as happened at least twice over the weekend.

I cant believe Fabregas and Ibrahimovich havent been looked into.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 5, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Yes Pete rank defending.Overall once again we were better than the opposition but failed to get a 2nd,I for one don't understand why we are failing to kill teams off I really thought we were turning a corner.I still believe 4th is there and am more worried of Spurs than Liverpool no surprise there.Apart from when Liverpool came 2nd for the last 10 years they have been miles behind and their main problem has always been weaker teams.Long way to go but a run is on its way.
		
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All fair points, though I think we'll finish above Spurs. Although I think Spurs have a better balanced team in some ways, our firepower is a big advantage, as think that after Kane and Alli, there isnt a lot of other goals in the side. I think we'll lose more than spurs, but will have more wins and less draws, compared to them.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			To me it should be all or nothing, it's ok saying goal or no goal but what if that decision follows on from an incorrectly awarded throw-in, corner
or offside.
		
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Because football is like life; it will never be perfect and the sooner the armchair fans get their head round that the better it will be. 

Strikers will miss open goals, goalkeepers will chuck it in their own net and so on. Indded if players made as few mistakes as refs it would be a better game.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 5, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Paul woeful game yes but up until your goal I never felt we were going to lose,once you scored yes the crowd woke up and you pressed but once we had 1 I would have liked to c Mate and Rashford and go for a 2nd as appossed to Fellaini as a more defence minded player.Onwards and upwards hopefully.
		
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I think thats the difference between Fergie and Mourinho. Mourinho will happiliy defend a 1-0 with 10 minutes to go, whereas Fergie will be going for 2,3 and 4.

Mourinho has had some good defences at Chelsea (twice) and Inter, but cant say that at the moment.Great keeper, Valencia doing a good job, not so much after that.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 5, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			TV cameras don't offer perfection but I bet Michael Oilver wishes he could have seen that tackle again in slow motion and from three different angles. He doesn't get that luxury which is why I have not criticised him at all, just the system that allows the offender to escape. The refs assessor will have seen it and reported it, that's for sure.
		
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Come on though, do you think that that challenge needed super slo-mo, or alternate angles.

There was no other players in the icinity, Rojo jumped in 2 footed from a few feet away, and it was the linesman's side.

He must have seen it to give the yellow - he must have just bottled it.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			To me it should be all or nothing, it's ok saying goal or no goal but what if that decision follows on from an incorrectly awarded throw-in, corner
or offside.
		
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But the goal takes no time from the game whatsoever. And is 100% factual. All over decisions can on occasion be inconclusive.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Because football is like life; it will never be perfect and the sooner the armchair fans get their head round that the better it will be. 

Strikers will miss open goals, goalkeepers will chuck it in their own net and so on. Indded if players made as few mistakes as refs it would be a better game.
		
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What's with the armchair fans comment? Is there a set number of games over a certain period you'd like to lay down so we know if we are worthy of an opinion.
If you'd like to know my attendance record please ask!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			But the goal takes no time from the game whatsoever. And is 100% factual. All over decisions can on occasion be inconclusive.
		
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Agreed, however, ball in or out of play is also 100% factual.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 5, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Come on though, do you think that that challenge needed super slo-mo, or alternate angles.

There was no other players in the icinity, Rojo jumped in 2 footed from a few feet away, and it was the linesman's side.

He must have seen it to give the yellow - he must have just bottled it.
		
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Exactly, so what would be the answer.

Retrospective action would only mean Rojo would not be available for three games against other sides. No advantage to the side against whom he committed the foul.

I admit I would be interested to know what the ref saw (or thought he saw) as, in real time on TV, it looked a straight red. But the use of technology would not change that.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			What's with the armchair fans comment? Is there a set number of games over a certain period you'd like to lay down so we know if we are worthy of an opinion.
If you'd like to know my attendance record please ask!
		
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What a touchy little soul you are!

The reference to armchair fans is aimed at the demand for TV involvement in decision making which I have never heard voiced by fans at matches as they tend to be far too wrapped up in the game.

The call seems to be from those who have the benefit of numerous replays and to use them would, in my opinion, change the game forever and not for the better.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 5, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Exactly, so what would be the answer.

Retrospective action would only mean Rojo would not be available for three games against other sides. No advantage to the side against whom he committed the foul.

I admit I would be interested to know what the ref saw (or thought he saw) as, in real time on TV, it looked a straight red. But the use of technology would not change that.
		
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Well getting the correct amount of game punishemebt afterwards would be a start so his team rightly suffers for the players discretion 

And as for in game issues - in the time it took the other player to got treatment a video ref could have look at that incident within seconds and told the ref it was a jumping two footed tackle - whole issue sorted with no extra delay.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 5, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Other sports have breaks in play facilitating the use of replays, football does not. Crowds are not going to be happy waiting on the result of a TV replay that is, after all, only being used to satisfy the demands of those not attending the match.

So TV replays would not benefit the game for those at the game.

And if you seriously think that the possible use of retrospective replays will somehow stop or deter players from diving or making dangerous tackles you clearly have not played the game. These sort of actions are instinctive not premeditated and the use of replays has not stopped them yet, nor will it.

As for sport being massive and huge in financial terms; so what?

Refs, like players, make mistakes that affect the outcome of games, that is part of *SPORT.
*

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I would be happy at the match to wait for a critical decision to go "upstairs", as long as there is a limit to how many appeals you can have.

I dont want this to all be harsh on the refs though, and players also have to take their share of the blame by the amount of cheating that goes on.

Maybe all penalties and red cards are looked at on a Monday, and if anyone blatantly dives, like Alli at the weekend, he is fined 3 weeks wages, and is banned for 3 matches. It wont cure it fully, but will go a long way to solving it.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 5, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I would be happy at the match to wait for a critical decision to go "upstairs", as long as there is a limit to how many appeals you can have.

I dont want this to all be harsh on the refs though, and players also have to take their share of the blame by the amount of cheating that goes on.

Maybe all penalties and red cards are looked at on a Monday, and if anyone blatantly dives, like Alli at the weekend, he is fined 3 weeks wages, and is banned for 3 matches. It wont cure it fully, but will go a long way to solving it.
		
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There we must differ as I would not want the delay, fine in Rojo's case as that should have been instantly visible but many contentious decisions would require much more of a delay. And if you restrict the number of appeals there will be a further delay as the captain or manager decides if he is going to use up one of his quota.

As for deterring diving all I will say is nearly 50 years ago I played with a guy who was very adept at clipping his own heels at just the right time. He was so good at it even the opposition ended up convinced it was a penalty!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			What a touchy little soul you are!

The reference to armchair fans is aimed at the demand for TV involvement in decision making which I have never heard voiced by fans at matches as they tend to be far too wrapped up in the game.

The call seems to be from those who have the benefit of numerous replays and to use them would, in my opinion, change the game forever and not for the better.
		
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When you mention it 2-3 times to make your point and you've made us fully aware on numerous occassions the level you played at, it comes across as condescending, as I've stated I'm not in agreement per say for trial by tv, it's either all or nothing, half hearted piss poor attempts will do nothing but damage to the game, again like Rugby, one man in a booth speaking to the Ref.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 5, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Exactly, so what would be the answer.

Retrospective action would only mean Rojo would not be available for three games against other sides. No advantage to the side against whom he committed the foul.

I admit I would be interested to know what the ref saw (or thought he saw) as, in real time on TV, it looked a straight red. But the use of technology would not change that.
		
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If there was video technology, Everton would have gained on the day, instead of Man U's next few opponents, although with Rojo being out, they may have more chance of getting beat with him out of the side. :whoo:

Mickie, I was a fervent anti-video refereeing guy for 15 yera, regularly arguing with one mate on the way back from away matches, all up until about 5 years ago.

Whether it is increased athleticism, diet and all of the other things, but refereeing is now dire in the prem possibly due to the increased speed and fitness.

A common thing 20 years ago was, out a winger on in the last 20 to run at the tiring full back. That full back is now still sprinting full out in the 90th minute. They are athletes now, and I think the game needs to change with it. I'm a luddite in most things in life, but this has to change IMHO.

I can understand some of the other arguments against, but until it is trialled, it shouldnt be written off. The pro argument also know that 100% of decisions wont be write, but a lot more will be.

It isnt a right or wrong argument, but I'm sure cricket and rugby fans were having the same arguments 20 years ago, wonder what they think now?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			There we must differ as I would not want the delay, fine in Rojo's case as that should have been instantly visible but many contentious decisions would require much more of a delay. And if you restrict the number of appeals there will be a further delay as the captain or manager decides if he is going to use up one of his quota.

As for deterring diving all I will say is nearly 50 years ago I played with a guy who was very adept at clipping his own heels at just the right time. He was so good at it even the opposition ended up convinced it was a penalty!
		
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You wouldn't accept cheating in Golf, what makes it acceptable in Football, it might take generations to sort it, but surely somewhere someone has to make a stand?


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 5, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			There we must differ as I would not want the delay, fine in Rojo's case as that should have been instantly visible but many contentious decisions would require much more of a delay. And if you restrict the number of appeals there will be a further delay as the captain or manager decides if he is going to use up one of his quota.

As for deterring diving all I will say is nearly 50 years ago I played with a guy who was very adept at clipping his own heels at just the right time. He was so good at it even the opposition ended up convinced it was a penalty!
		
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If only Pathe news would have had video replay......................:whoo:

Give the captain only 30 seconds (like in the cricket) to decide, and no help from the technical area, in case they watch a very quick replay on dead fast, super-ready, slow-mo.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			When you mention it 2-3 times to make your point and you've made us fully aware on numerous occassions the level you played at, it comes across as condescending, as I've stated I'm not in agreement per say for trial by tv, it's either all or nothing, half hearted piss poor attempts will do nothing but damage to the game, again like Rugby, one man in a booth speaking to the Ref.
		
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I can accept technology for "items of fact" like goal-line or ball in or out of play but anything else involves judgement or interpretation and, thus, undermines the ref. Umpires in cricket now seem to be almost redundant.


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			I can accept technology for "items of fact" like goal-line or ball in or out of play but anything else involves judgement or interpretation and, thus, undermines the ref. Umpires in cricket now seem to be almost redundant.
		
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and crickets a far better game for it, drs by far from perfect but overall standard of decisions now far higher than before


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 5, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			I can accept technology for "items of fact" like goal-line or ball in or out of play but anything else involves judgement or interpretation and, thus, undermines the ref. Umpires in cricket now seem to be almost redundant.
		
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Umpires are far from almost redundant and  the decisions from the umpires are at a better standard - the same with rugby refs and both sports are better for it


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 5, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			You wouldn't accept cheating in Golf, what makes it acceptable in Football, it might take generations to sort it, but surely somewhere someone has to make a stand?
		
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I genuinely don't get as worked up  as many on here about cheats in golf, firmly in the camp that the only people they are cheating are themselves although I will call it if I see it.

In any event one person's cheating is another's doing what is necessary to win. Not something I could agree with but then human nature means some will cheatin all walks of life ; sport, business, marriage, whatever.

Something we all have to acknowledge.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 5, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Umpires are far from almost redundant and  the decisions from the umpires are at a better standard - the same with rugby refs and both sports are better for it
		
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Cricket most certainly is not (have no idea about rugby as I have zero interest).

Umpires now miss more front foot no balls than they spot and the practice of accepting a fielder's word for a fair catch has now disappeared even in Club cricket where replays are not available. So no evidence to suggest that DRS has improved the game.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			I genuinely don't get as worked up  as many on here about cheats in golf, firmly in the camp that the only people they are cheating are themselves although I will call it if I see it.

In any event one person's cheating is another's doing what is necessary to win. Not something I could agree with but then human nature means some will cheatin all walks of life ; sport, business, marriage, whatever.

Something we all have to acknowledge.
		
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I agree with the human nature comment and we all have to acknowledge it, but in all the examples you quote, if caught, those responsible are brought to account except in Football, in Football it seems to be more accepted as part of the game.


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## richart (Dec 5, 2016)

Stam going back to Old Trafford. I wonder if Fergie will say hello ?


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## Beezerk (Dec 5, 2016)

Boro away in the cup,  bring it on.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 5, 2016)

Beezerk said:



			Boro away in the cup,  bring it on.
		
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The whole draw seems a bit crap this year. No local derbies I can think of, or big hitters together.


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## pbrown7582 (Dec 6, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			The whole draw seems a bit crap this year. No local derbies I can think of, or big hitters together.
		
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maybe because those doing the draw were looking to do favours to get a job!


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## Hobbit (Dec 6, 2016)

Beezerk said:



			Boro away in the cup,  bring it on.
		
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At least you'll be able to concentrate on the league after your very brief cup run...


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## richart (Dec 6, 2016)

I was a bit disappointed we didn't get Barrow. First game I ever went to back in 1970 was against Barrow. We won 6-3, and still not seen as many goals in one game since.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 6, 2016)

I don't often agree with Robbie Savage, but I'm with him here;

[video=youtube;_kQ4uQP-45s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kQ4uQP-45s[/video]


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 6, 2016)

And I'm with him here as well;

[video]http://www.101greatgoals.com/101ggvideos/leicester-fan-calls-claudio-ranieris-head-floors-robbie-savage-top-replacement-video/[/video]


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			The whole draw seems a bit crap this year. No local derbies I can think of, or big hitters together.
		
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I'm off to the big one. Sutton v AFC Wimbledon. Great local derby and a chance of an upset


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## Doon frae Troon (Dec 6, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I'm off to the big one. Sutton v AFC Wimbledon. Great local derby and a chance of an upset
		
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Lucky you, up here a few days ago BBC2 Scotland was showing Mackeralton City v Sodding Chippenbury [well something like that] on prime viewing time.
I would love to have known what their viewing figures were?

It would have been the equivalent of showing East Fife v Forfar in SE England. As if that would ever happen.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 6, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I'm off to the big one. Sutton v AFC Wimbledon. Great local derby and a chance of an upset
		
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Amazing that Wimbledon got through,3-0 down,then scored 3 in 2 minutes.Makes Bournemouth look frugal.


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## Piece (Dec 10, 2016)

Lovely stuff :whoo:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 10, 2016)

Piece said:



			Lovely stuff :whoo:
		
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Just in from Course, haven't seen the match but reports say you deserved it. 
Really worried about our next 2 matches


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## Tashyboy (Dec 10, 2016)

Son in law has took young Bradley Tash to see the the "Blades"/ Sheff Utd today. He is not very happy. He wanted to wear his Man City shirt. Cannot understand why he can't wear it. Wanted to know where Pep Guardiola was, very upset that Moonchester was not there. Must of been a relaxing experience for him, he fell asleep during the game. Good lad.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 10, 2016)

Piece said:



			Lovely stuff :whoo:
		
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being up north next week, I cannot get to the midweek game. Got an horrible feeling that Watford could be coming away with something weds night


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 10, 2016)

Tidy finish by Vardy to end his drought. Not as good as that second though from King. Pep has a huge problem


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## garyinderry (Dec 10, 2016)

You beauty Vardy. :whoo:


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## garyinderry (Dec 10, 2016)

Well :whoo:


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## Piece (Dec 10, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Just in from Course, haven't seen the match but reports say you deserved it. 
Really worried about our next 2 matches 

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Yeah, fair score. Not a good advert for defending crosses though!


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## Piece (Dec 10, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			being up north next week, I cannot get to the midweek game. Got an horrible feeling that Watford could be coming away with something weds night
		
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I would go but work deadlines have ruled that out. We will come away with a spanking...


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## Tashyboy (Dec 10, 2016)

Piece said:



			I would go but work deadlines have ruled that out. We will come away with a spanking...
		
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Just watched the first half and well, can I borrow your last sentance.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 10, 2016)

Watching the Leics v City match and the commentators are discussing the CL draw and saying how wonderful it would it be for Leics to get Bayern or Barca in the next round so the team and their fans can have a great adventure.
No! It would only be great if they won and got through to the next round.
Let them get the draw that gives them the best chance of staying in the Comp and leave playing the very best for the Final.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 10, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Watching the Leics v City match and the commentators are discussing the CL draw and saying how wonderful it would it be for Leics to get Bayern or Barca in the next round so the team and their fans can have a great adventure.
No! It would only be great if they won and got through to the next round.
Let them get the draw that gives them the best chance of staying in the Comp and leave playing the very best for the Final.
		
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It depends. Leicester tonight looked more like the one from last year, granted City were shocking in the first half particularly. If they play like that and like their first few group games then they could give anyone a game over two legs


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## Fish (Dec 10, 2016)

What a big game it is for yawnited & spuds tomorrow, both need to win to keep in touch with the groups of teams there in and around but anything other than a win for manure and their season is all about hanging onto 6th &#128540;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 10, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			It depends. Leicester tonight looked more like the one from last year, granted City were shocking in the first half particularly. If they play like that and like their first few group games then they could give anyone a game over two legs
		
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No, they weren't saying that, what they were saying was basically they aren't going to go much further so go out to big team on an adventure.
Some people can't accept they are there on merit and we should be wanting them to get as far as possible and getting, what seems on paper, a lesser team they'd have a better chance of progressing.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 10, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			It depends. Leicester tonight looked more like the one from last year, granted City were shocking in the first half particularly. If they play like that and like their first few group games then they could give anyone a game over two legs
		
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Trouble is Homer I am inclined to agree with Paul 42, City with a woeful defence that is sooooooooo slooooooooow played right into Leicesters hands that was a woeful City performance. Would like to see Leicester get a kind draw, they deserve it. City have a ? World class centre forward coming in January, would like to see three world class defenders coming in as well. I said a month or so ago that City need to be on the leaders tails after Christmas. At this rate they won't be.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 10, 2016)

Snodgrass  - Instant Karma!


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## One Planer (Dec 10, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Snodgrass  - Instant Karma!
		
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What did I miss?

Saw the dive and pen???


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 10, 2016)

One Planer said:



			What did I miss?

Saw the dive and pen???
		
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A total no contact dive, he scored himself from the resultant pen,then he gave a penalty away himself.


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## One Planer (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			A total no contact dive, he scored himself from the resultant pen,then he gave a penalty away himself.

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Ah.  Still doesn't excuse what had to be the worst dive in living memory!


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## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Ah.  Still doesn't excuse what had to be the worst dive in living memory!
		
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Nah the Phil Neville one for Everton was the worst Ive ever seen.


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## Imurg (Dec 11, 2016)

The FA seem to condone diving by not having retrospective action available like it is in Scotland...
Doesn't make sense.
Almost every game there's a dive or two and, quite frankly, it's making a mockery of the game.
Cheats never prosper - unless you're a footballer that is.....


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## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2016)

Imurg said:



			The FA seem to condone diving by not having retrospective action available like it is in Scotland...
Doesn't make sense.
Almost every game there's a dive or two and, quite frankly, it's making a mockery of the game.
Cheats never prosper - unless you're a footballer that is.....
		
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The only way to stop all forms of cheating is to take points off teams, fines and bans do nothing.


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## Imurg (Dec 11, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			The only way to stop all forms of cheating is to take points off teams, fines and bans do nothing.
		
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And as that's never going to happen it ain't ever gonna stop.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 11, 2016)

Fish said:



			What a big game it is for yawnited & spuds tomorrow, both need to win to keep in touch with the groups of teams there in and around but anything other than a win for manure and their season is all about hanging onto 6th &#63004;
		
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If United lose today against Spurs I wonder if they'll be focusing more on the Europa League and trying to win that as a way into the Champions League rather than trying to finish top 4.


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## Sweep (Dec 11, 2016)

Imurg said:



			The FA seem to condone diving by not having retrospective action available like it is in Scotland...
Doesn't make sense.
Almost every game there's a dive or two and, quite frankly, it's making a mockery of the game.
Cheats never prosper - unless you're a footballer that is.....
		
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Excellent post. Diving has simply ruined the game for me, to the extent that I watch much less nowadays. This scourge of the game renders the result, the league and the game itself utterly irrelevant. Football these days is about as authentic as WWE or your local pantomime. It's not a sport. Sport requires sportsmanship. It's a game full of gamesmanship. There is a world of difference between the two.


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## Hobbit (Dec 11, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Trouble is Homer I am inclined to agree with Paul 42, City with a woeful defence that is sooooooooo slooooooooow played right into Leicesters hands that was a woeful City performance. Would like to see Leicester get a kind draw, they deserve it. City have a ? World class centre forward coming in January, would like to see three world class defenders coming in as well. I said a month or so ago that City need to be on the leaders tails after Christmas. At this rate they won't be.
		
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Hobbits's agrees with Tashboy. That defence is starting to look old and creaky. Sort the defence and an upside is you'll be able to attack more.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 11, 2016)

Sweep said:



			Excellent post. Diving has simply ruined the game for me, to the extent that I watch much less nowadays. This scourge of the game renders the result, the league and the game itself utterly irrelevant. Football these days is about as authentic as WWE or your local pantomime. It's not a sport. Sport requires sportsmanship. It's a game full of gamesmanship. There is a world of difference between the two.
		
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You get the odd dive in the odd game and Stu_C is 100% correct that until teams lose points then nothing will change, but to compare it to WWE or a panto is ridiculous.


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## richy (Dec 11, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Trouble is Homer I am inclined to agree with Paul 42, City with a woeful defence that is sooooooooo slooooooooow played right into Leicesters hands that was a woeful City performance. Would like to see Leicester get a kind draw, they deserve it. City have a ? World class centre forward coming in January, would like to see three world class defenders coming in as well. I said a month or so ago that City need to be on the leaders tails after Christmas. At this rate they won't be.
		
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I don't get it. Man City have spent well over 80mil on defenders over the last 3 years so to say you need THREE more defenders is crazy. Man City are turning into Chelsea where if they have a problem they just throw a ridiculous amount of money at it and hope for the best.


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## Sweep (Dec 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			You get the odd dive in the odd game and Stu_C is 100% correct that until teams lose points then nothing will change, but to compare it to WWE or a panto is ridiculous.
		
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Really? There is a dive in every game.
Who won yesterday? Hull or Palace? The result was skewed because of cheating. That's what it is, cheating. ( I am not a Palace fan btw). This in turn will skew the league.
You are right though, you can't compare it with pantomime or WWE. At least those two don't pretend to be serious. Football is becoming a laughing stock.
I remind you of Benteke when he won a penalty for cheating by diving v Palace (oddly enough) last year. 
Interviwer: " Was it a penalty?"
Benteke: "I think he touched me"
Panalist: He had every right to go down.

Please! And my comparison is ridiculous???

Just imagine if golf was tainted this way.


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## Sweep (Dec 11, 2016)

richy said:



			I don't get it. Man City have spent well over 80mil on defenders over the last 3 years so to say you need THREE more defenders is crazy. Man City are turning into Chelsea where if they have a problem they just throw a ridiculous amount of money at it and hope for the best.
		
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For the past couple of years City were a different team when Kompany played and they really missed him when he was injured. I know he hasn't figured under Pep and is injured, but I do wonder if he is the answer to City's defensive woes.


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## richy (Dec 11, 2016)

Sweep said:



			For the past couple of years City were a different team when Kompany played and they really missed him when he was injured. I know he hasn't figured under Pep and is injured, but I do wonder if he is the answer to City's defensive woes.
		
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He probably is but for a team to have spent so much over the past few years they really shouldn't be relying on a single player.


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## Sweep (Dec 11, 2016)

richy said:



			He probably is but for a team to have spent so much over the past few years they really shouldn't be relying on a single player.
		
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I agree and it goes to prove you can't always buy the title.


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## Sweep (Dec 11, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			If United lose today against Spurs I wonder if they'll be focusing more on the Europa League and trying to win that as a way into the Champions League rather than trying to finish top 4.
		
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Personally I don't think United should have entered the Europa League.
I am a United fan but I don't think they will make the Champions League either way (I hope I am wrong though).
IMO if you haven't been good enough to get into the Champions League you need to concentrate on your league form and take advantage of fewer games to do so. After all, it's not like the old days when only the Champions got into the European Cup. If you haven't made the top four or win the cup you shouldn't be playing in Europe. Winning a cup for teams that have come 5th or worse is not European glory. It's just about cash.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 11, 2016)

Sweep said:



			Really? There is a dive in every game.
Who won yesterday? Hull or Palace? The result was skewed because of cheating. That's what it is, cheating. ( I am not a Palace fan btw). This in turn will skew the league.
You are right though, you can't compare it with pantomime or WWE. At least those two don't pretend to be serious. Football is becoming a laughing stock.
I remind you of Benteke when he won a penalty for cheating by diving v Palace (oddly enough) last year. 
Interviwer: " Was it a penalty?"
Benteke: "I think he touched me"
Panalist: He had every right to go down.

Please! And my comparison is ridiculous???

Just imagine if golf was tainted this way.
		
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So one instance yesterday out of all the games played and one from last season, proves your point then!
I totally agree it's cheating and disgraceful and needs stamping out, but it's nothing new, diving has been going on for years, Francis Lee in the early 70's was one of the best.
Football is bigger and more popular than it's ever been so it must be doing something right.
If it's become a laughing stock it's for the obscene amount of money in the game.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2016)

Players have been diving for years , it's not a new phenomenon 

I don't agree with punishing the clubs with points but do think they need to grab some balls and start to check videos afterwards and hand out retrospective action to any offender. 

But you only have to look at the Eduardo case with UEFA when they attempted to ban him for 3 games - they couldn't prove him "intended" to dive so he got off on appeal - would be the same problem now , how do you proof it was an intentional dive looking to gain an advantage? 

The easiest way is to just not allow them to appeal and any like found guilty of diving is banned for 4 games , it won't take long for that to hit Home


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## One Planer (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Players have been diving for years , it's not a new phenomenon 

I don't agree with punishing the clubs with points but do think they need to grab some balls and start to check videos afterwards and hand out retrospective action to any offender. 

But you only have to look at the Eduardo case with UEFA when they attempted to ban him for 3 games - they couldn't prove him "intended" to dive so he got off on appeal - would be the same problem now , how do you proof it was an intentional dive looking to gain an advantage? 

The easiest way is to just not allow them to appeal and any like found guilty of diving is banned for 4 games , it won't take long for that to hit Home
		
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Did you see the Snodgrass dive. 

He was looking for a penalty and won it.  Pure dive, zero contact. 

That is exactly the situation the FA should be retrospectively issuing bans for.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Did you see the Snodgrass dive. 

He was looking for a penalty and won it.  Pure dive, zero contact. 

That is exactly the situation the FA should be retrospectively issuing bans for.
		
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I haven't seen it but did hear that he said that he was diving out of the way of the tackle and that it shouldn't have been a penalty ? So how do they prove that he was looking for it ?


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## richy (Dec 11, 2016)

Sweep said:



			I agree and it goes to prove you can't always buy the title.
		
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Then throwing more money at it won't be the answer then. 

They've supposedly got one of the best coaches in the world (they haven't, he's massively overrated IMO) so he should be able to fix it.


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## One Planer (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I haven't seen it but did hear that he said that he was diving out of the way of the tackle and that it shouldn't have been a penalty ? So how do they prove that he was looking for it ?
		
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Because they're was no tackle Phil. 

Snodgrass jumped for a tackle/contact that never came, nor was even close.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Because they're was no tackle Phil. 

Snodgrass jumped for a tackle/contact that never came, nor was even close.
		
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So if he says he was expected a tackle coming in so dived out of the way from that expected tackle is he diving to get a penalty or to protect himself ? 

This is what he said 

*"Apologies from my end, it was never a penalty," tweeted Snodgrass after the match. "But genuinely thought defender was going to slide, so tried to ride the tackle."*


To charge the player they would have to prove that he did it to gain a penalty - and that's what they couldn't do with Eduardo , proving the intent. Would love for them to ban everyone who dives - but it's a minefield

Another example is look at the Charlie Adam incident from yesterday - he stood on Sanchez - so the question is to he mean too ? Was it a deliberate stamp ? Do you take his previous into account or was it an accident and that Adam couldn't have avoided standing on him - was there intent and can it be proved


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## ger147 (Dec 11, 2016)

Seems to wrok fine up here...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/14677417.Hearts_midfielder_Jamie_Walker_loses_diving_ban_case/


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## One Planer (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So if he says he was expected a tackle coming in so dived out of the way from that expected tackle is he diving to get a penalty or to protect himself ? 

This is what he said 

*"Apologies from my end, it was never a penalty," tweeted Snodgrass after the match. "But genuinely thought defender was going to slide, so tried to ride the tackle."*


To charge the player they would have to prove that he did it to gain a penalty - and that's what they couldn't do with Eduardo , proving the intent. Would love for them to ban everyone who dives - but it's a minefield

Another example is look at the Charlie Adam incident from yesterday - he stood on Sanchez - so the question is to he mean too ? Was it a deliberate stamp ? Do you take his previous into account or was it an accident and that Adam couldn't have avoided standing on him - was there intent and can it be proved
		
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I watched the game live Phil, he knew exactly what he was doing.  He shows zero remorse and slotted the Penally. 

I remember a few years back where Robbie Fowler went over easily in the box and could clearly be seen telling the ref it wasn't a penalty.  He missed the subsequent spot kick.  On purpose? Who knows. 

My point is *if* a player was sliding to tackle and he attempted to ride the challenge, I would agree. 

The difference in this case is the player making the challenge didn't slide in. Snodgrass anticipated a tackle that never came. 

How can he be defending himself from a tackle that was never made?

Obvious dive for all to see. Blatant cheating.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Players have been diving for years , it's not a new phenomenon 

I don't agree with punishing the clubs with points but do think they need to grab some balls and start to check videos afterwards and hand out retrospective action to any offender. 

But you only have to look at the Eduardo case with UEFA when they attempted to ban him for 3 games - they couldn't prove him "intended" to dive so he got off on appeal - would be the same problem now , how do you proof it was an intentional dive looking to gain an advantage? 

The easiest way is to just not allow them to appeal and any like found guilty of diving is banned for 4 games , it won't take long for that to hit Home
		
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If you take retrospective action, how does the team the offence was committed against benefit?
As said Snodgrass could've put the ball over the bar.
Instead he takes no responsibility and even his tweet is a piss take.
I don't believe they'll take points but that to me is the only way teams would take it seriously.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			If you take retrospective action, how does the team the offence was committed against benefit?
As said Snodgrass could've put the ball over the bar.
Instead he takes no responsibility and even his tweet is a piss take.
I don't believe they'll take points but that to me is the only way teams would take it seriously.
		
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There is other offences within the game that happen more regualry - deliberate pulls in the box , shirt grabbing , deliberate handballs , deliberate trips , fouls that should be red instead of yellow - events that if correctly punished give the opposition the benefit there and then - should the retrospective action be points taken off the team whose player committed the offence ? For example should Man Utd had points deducted for the Rojo tackle which for me is worse than diving , should Chelsea had points deducted for Luiz incident ? 

The action should always be against the player - the teams also need to take action against the player - bans , fines etc - right now there is no action against players so that needs to be done first , as soon as and start to be given out the players will start to shape up


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There is other offences within the game that happen more regualry - deliberate pulls in the box , shirt grabbing , deliberate handballs , deliberate trips , fouls that should be red instead of yellow - events that if correctly punished give the opposition the benefit there and then - should the retrospective action be points taken off the team whose player committed the offence ? For example should Man Utd had points deducted for the Rojo tackle which for me is worse than diving , should Chelsea had points deducted for Luiz incident ? 

The action should always be against the player - the teams also need to take action against the player - bans , fines etc - right now there is no action against players so that needs to be done first , as soon as and start to be given out the players will start to shape up
		
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I know 99% disagree, but that's why it should be a tier'd system, 30 bookings or 10 Reds - lose 1 point, 50 bookings or 15 Reds another 2 points, etc
With modern squads and wages missing 1 player for 3 games or 50 grand fines has little impact, losing points impacts on everyone and everyone would feel a collective responsibility.


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## garyinderry (Dec 11, 2016)

I'd like to see automatic red cards for dives in the box.  It would make a diver think twice before throwing themselves down.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I know 99% disagree, but that's why it should be a tier'd system, 30 bookings or 10 Reds - lose 1 point, 50 bookings or 15 Reds another 2 points, etc
With modern squads and wages missing 1 player for 3 games or 50 grand fines has little impact, losing points impacts on everyone and everyone would feel a collective responsibility.
		
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Why should innocent people be punished though - that's what happens if the team is affected by taking points. What happens if deducting a point or two means that a team misses out on Europe or even winning the title - one person's action affected the whole squad, players who have prob never been booked all season long get punished as well, that doesn't seem fair. 

And then there is the refs - knowing that cards could mean points taken off , they get put under even more pressure. 

Sorry but in no other sport does a single person's action mean punishment for the whole club - you punish the player in the strictest possibly way - adding in points deductions for bookable offences is beyond way over the top.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Why should innocent people be punished though - that's what happens if the team is affected by taking points. What happens if deducting a point or two means that a team misses out on Europe or even winning the title - one person's action affected the whole squad, players who have prob never been booked all season long get punished as well, that doesn't seem fair. *

And then there is the refs - knowing that cards could mean points taken off , they get put under even more pressure. 

Sorry but in no other sport does a single person's action mean punishment for the whole club - you punish the player in the strictest possibly way - adding in points deductions for bookable offences is beyond way over the top.
		
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What if that players dive is in the 90th minute of the last game of the season and secures CL footy or the title? Then the team they beat (for the league or 4th) has been done over by someone's actions. 

All players know know when they are diving and if they knew the repercussions then I think it could change things. That said, it'll NEVER happen. Just like at the start of season pens were given formshirt pulling. Still happens as much. Same as when players were gonna be booked for approaching refs. 

These ideas get debated each year or so. Then blow over.


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## Slime (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I haven't seen it but did hear that *he said that he was diving out of the way of the tackle* and that it shouldn't have been a penalty ? So how do they prove that he was looking for it ?
		
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That's a blatant lie ............... and he knows it.
If he's that apologetic he should have missed the penalty.


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## One Planer (Dec 11, 2016)

Slime said:



			That's a blatant lie ............... and he knows it.
If he's that apologetic he should have missed the penalty.
		
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Or at least not celebrated in the manor he did!


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			What if that players dive is in the 90th minute of the last game of the season and secures CL footy or the title? Then the team they beat (for the league or 4th) has been done over by someone's actions. 

All players know know when they are diving and if they knew the repercussions then I think it could change things. That said, it'll NEVER happen. Just like at the start of season pens were given formshirt pulling. Still happens as much. Same as when players were gonna be booked for approaching refs. 

These ideas get debated each year or so. Then blow over.
		
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Right now there is no repercussions beyond a yellow card and the incident above has never occurred or even come close to occurring.

If a player dives in the game today the maximum penalty for them is a yellow card , to most that's a nothing punishment  - first stage is to increase that punishment to a red straight away if it's in the box as been mentioined already and then the FA have the chance to increase bans and the teams need to make themselves responsible and discipline their own players. 

If you start deducting points for diving then it creates a bigger problem because there are offences in the game that have just as big affect on the game and in some causes a bigger affect


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## Papas1982 (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Right now there is no repercussions beyond a yellow card and the incident above has never occurred or even come close to occurring.

If a player dives in the game today the maximum penalty for them is a yellow card , to most that's a nothing punishment  - first stage is to increase that punishment to a red straight away if it's in the box as been mentioined already and then the FA have the chance to increase bans and the teams need to make themselves responsible and discipline their own players. 

If you start deducting points for diving then it creates a bigger problem because there are offences in the game that have just as big affect on the game and in some causes a bigger affect
		
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It may nit ever happen. But that shouldn't be a safety net for all teams to think they can dove as their are no repercussions. I'm not goin to feel sorry for poor players who miss out on playing in the CL Beira series of their team mates actions over those of the team that could be cheated out of a position. 

As to more serious crimes. A player making a disgusting tackle, whilst able to have lasting effects on a players career. A team will likely suffer more directly to conceding a penalty and losing points. I'd imagine more teams that have been 0-0 and had a player sent off have gotten a draw than teams that have conceded a penalty at 0-0.


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## Sweep (Dec 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So one instance yesterday out of all the games played and one from last season, proves your point then!
I totally agree it's cheating and disgraceful and needs stamping out, but it's nothing new, diving has been going on for years, Francis Lee in the early 70's was one of the best.
Football is bigger and more popular than it's ever been so it must be doing something right.
If it's become a laughing stock it's for the obscene amount of money in the game.
		
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It's every week.
I agree about the money though


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## Old Skier (Dec 11, 2016)

Remember it's only cheating if it's done AGAINST you or your team.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Right now there is no repercussions beyond a yellow card and the incident above has never occurred or even come close to occurring.

If a player dives in the game today the maximum penalty for them is a yellow card , to most that's a nothing punishment  - first stage is to increase that punishment to a red straight away if it's in the box as been mentioined already and then the FA have the chance to increase bans and the teams need to make themselves responsible and discipline their own players. 

If you start deducting points for diving then it creates a bigger problem because there are offences in the game that have just as big affect on the game and in some causes a bigger affect
		
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I'm not suggesting points being deducted for diving, I'm suggesting points for Red and Yellow cards, therefore every offence can have an impact, Players/managers would have to look at every aspect of their performance, 
Snodgrass will face absolutely no repucussions and his team certainly won't punish him. Makes no difference to him whether it's red or yellow, as far as the system cares he was fouled.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I'm not suggesting points being deducted for diving, I'm suggesting points for Red and Yellow cards, therefore every offence can have an impact, Players/managers would have to look at every aspect of their performance, 
Snodgrass will face absolutely no repucussions and his team certainly won't punish him. Makes no difference to him whether it's red or yellow, as far as the system cares he was fouled.
		
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Points for yellow and red cards ?!! That's even worse - sorry but that's ridiculous. The refs have a hard enough job as it is without heaping even more pressure on them. Why such a harsh punishment when they have already been given a card ? That would make an absolute mockery of the sport and thankfully is something that I'm 100% certain will never get introduced into the game because it's that ridiculous.


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## garyinderry (Dec 11, 2016)

Its a non starter even debating that.  Never going to happen.  Its a contact sport.  Yellows and reds are part and parcel of it all.


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## One Planer (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Points for yellow and red cards ?!! That's even worse - sorry but that's ridiculous. The refs have a hard enough job as it is without heaping even more pressure on them. Why such a harsh punishment when they have already been given a card ? That would make an absolute mockery of the sport and thankfully is something that I'm 100% certain will never get introduced into the game because it's that ridiculous.
		
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Would a compromise be points deductions for retrospective bans/action?

Use the Snodgrass incident as an example. 

Because of Snodgrass' blatant dive, Crystal palace have been, potentially, cheated out of 2 points.  

Is that fair. 

Why not retrospectively award Palace the win with Hull getting nothing. Incidents and punishment of this nature would soon pull players and clubs into line.


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## Sweep (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why should innocent people be punished though - that's what happens if the team is affected by taking points. What happens if deducting a point or two means that a team misses out on Europe or even winning the title - one person's action affected the whole squad, players who have prob never been booked all season long get punished as well, that doesn't seem fair. 

And then there is the refs - knowing that cards could mean points taken off , they get put under even more pressure. 

Sorry but in no other sport does a single person's action mean punishment for the whole club - you punish the player in the strictest possibly way - adding in points deductions for bookable offences is beyond way over the top.
		
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It's a team game. Players play for each other. The point is if the punishment is severe enough the player won't commit the offence in the first place. Would you like to be the guy that cost your team the title or a place in Europe by being caught cheating? It would be a start if the football fraternity actually started to refer to it as cheating. All I hear now is "it's part of the game".

Its all a pointless debate. Nothing will happen. We have all had endless discussion on how football can be governed better, but little happens. It's that bad the only conclusion I can come to is that they run it badly on purpose so that people like us talk about it. 4+ hours of football talk programs on Sky alone this morning. Much of it on penalties that should or shouldn't have been. Not actually that much on great skill like the Zaha goal.


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## Imurg (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why should innocent people be punished though - that's what happens if the team is affected by taking points. What happens if deducting a point or two means that a team misses out on Europe or even winning the title - one person's action affected the whole squad, players who have prob never been booked all season long get punished as well, that doesn't seem fair. 

And then there is the refs - knowing that cards could mean points taken off , they get put under even more pressure. 

Sorry but in no other sport does a single person's action mean punishment for the whole club - you punish the player in the strictest possibly way - adding in points deductions for bookable offences is beyond way over the top.
		
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Punishing the team for one players actions is what happens when someone gets sent off.
Punishing the team with points deductions for one players actions may make teams, managers and players realise that what is going on has to stop and if it doesn't then they lose more points. If they miss out on the League or Europe then that's the way it goes.
It's up to the clubs and the managers to somehow drill into the thick skull of the modern day footballer that it's not acceptable.
And if it takes points deductions then so be it.
It's a TEAM game after all......


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Would a compromise be points deductions for retrospective bans/action?

Use the Snodgrass incident as an example. 

Because of Snodgrass' blatant dive, Crystal palace have been, potentially, cheated out of 2 points.  

Is that fair. 

Why not retrospectively award Palace the win with Hull getting nothing. Incidents and punishment of this nature would soon pull players and clubs into line.
		
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Where do you stop - referee gives a penalty  that shouldn't have been given , players pulls a shirt to stop someone going clean through and it's missed , player deliberately trips a player , player should have been given a red and the team goes on to win  - the list is endless

With the amount of incorrect decisions given out over the season multiple games could have results overturned or points taken off and given.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Points for yellow and red cards ?!! That's even worse - sorry but that's ridiculous. The refs have a hard enough job as it is without heaping even more pressure on them. Why such a harsh punishment when they have already been given a card ? That would make an absolute mockery of the sport and thankfully is something that I'm 100% certain will never get introduced into the game because it's that ridiculous.
		
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So do nothing, I acknowledged 99% would disagree and the amount of Yellow and Red Cards needed to result in losing points would have to be looked at.

Everton had the most Yellow Cards last Season (67) if they knew they could lose a point after 50 bookings, the attitude or petulant fouls or diving might stop.
Fines and bans have changed nothing, maybe we need to think outside the box and consider the ridiculous to at least try and get an answer.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2016)

Imurg said:



			Punishing the team for one players actions is what happens when someone gets sent off.
Punishing the team with points deductions for one players actions may make teams, managers and players realise that what is going on has to stop and if it doesn't then they lose more points. If they miss out on the League or Europe then that's the way it goes.
It's up to the clubs and the managers to somehow drill into the thick skull of the modern day footballer that it's not acceptable.
And if it takes points deductions then so be it.
It's a TEAM game after all......
		
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Points dedications for actions that happen on the field would make a mockery of the sport - it's never going to happen because it's just not a workable solution 

Right now there is very little retrospective action taken after the game - it's all dependant on the refs report.

The next natural progressive step is simply assesing the game after and then adding in retrospective cards/bans for any offence that is deemed to require it 

Diving , violent conduct , clear red card offences that have been missed. 

If the players know that any action that they commit will be picked up after then it's going to make them think twice 

But points deduction - total non starter


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## Old Skier (Dec 11, 2016)

We have been here before and some forumers quite openly stated that cheating is part of the game and are more than happy that nothing is done about it.

Cheating is openly supported by managers, players, pundits and unfortunately by some "fans" of the game.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So do nothing, I acknowledged 99% would disagree and the amount of Yellow and Red Cards needed to result in losing points would have to be looked at.

Everton had the most Yellow Cards last Season (67) if they knew they could lose a point after 50 bookings, the attitude or petulant fouls or diving might stop.
Fines and bans have changed nothing, maybe we need to think outside the box and consider the ridiculous to at least try and get an answer.
		
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What exactly is it you are trying to achieve by bringing in a points deduction system for yellow and red cards ? 

What problem are you looking to solve ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2016)

Old Skier said:



			We have been here before and some forumers quite openly stated that cheating is part of the game and are more than happy that nothing is done about it.

Cheating is openly supported by managers, players, pundits and unfortunately by some "fans" of the game.
		
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What exactly is this in response to because not one single person has suggested "nothing is done about cheating in the game" - and no one has "openly supported it"


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## Old Skier (Dec 11, 2016)

Like I said, we have been here before and I'm sure those involved know who they are.


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## Slime (Dec 11, 2016)

Shock news .................. United win a league game!!!
Great finish by Mkhitaryan.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What exactly is it you are trying to achieve by bringing in a points deduction system for yellow and red cards ? 

What problem are you looking to solve ?
		
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What I see it trying to achieve is the stopping or controlling of deliberate non-sportsman like behaviour, whether that be cheating or petulant behaviour or violence, it's a full on contact sport and that shouldn't be curtailed, big difference between a mis-timed tackle than a deliberate 2 footed dive.

What does retrospective bans and fines achieve? The game isn't better for them, it has no real impact on a Club, whether your best player is banned or injured for 4 games makes no difference.

Forgetting the impact of promotion or relegation on a team for a monent financially 1 point can cost a team millions in mid-table position alone and this is the only thing modern clubs care about


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## Papas1982 (Dec 11, 2016)

The more I see of him. The more I like Klopp. 

almost makes me want to see Liverpool win. Almost......


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## pokerjoke (Dec 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So do nothing, I acknowledged 99% would disagree and the amount of Yellow and Red Cards needed to result in losing points would have to be looked at.

Everton had the most Yellow Cards last Season (67) if they knew they could lose a point after 50 bookings, the attitude or petulant fouls or diving might stop.
Fines and bans have changed nothing, maybe we need to think outside the box and consider the ridiculous to at least try and get an answer.
		
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One mans red is anothers yellow and anothers yellow is anothers nothing so impossible to police.

Good win for Utd today and certainly playing a lot better and with more confidence.
Top 4 predicted and another step towards the C/L


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 11, 2016)

Old Skier said:



			We have been here before and some forumers quite openly stated that cheating is part of the game and are more than happy that nothing is done about it.

Cheating is openly supported by managers, players, pundits and unfortunately by some "fans" of the game.
		
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Rubbish, some have said it's part of the modern game because it is, nobody has said they are more than happy nothing is done about it.

Everyone agrees it should be removed from the game.

Please feel free to show the post backing up your point.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			What I see it trying to achieve is the stopping or controlling of deliberate non-sportsman like behaviour, whether that be cheating or petulant behaviour or violence, it's a full on contact sport and that shouldn't be curtailed, big difference between a mis-timed tackle than a deliberate 2 footed dive.

What does retrospective bans and fines achieve? The game isn't better for them, it has no real impact on a Club, whether your best player is banned or injured for 4 games makes no difference.

Forgetting the impact of promotion or relegation on a team for a monent financially 1 point can cost a team millions in mid-table position alone and this is the only thing modern clubs care about
		
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Do you think Aguero's ban wont effect City's results?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 11, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			One mans red is anothers yellow and anothers yellow is anothers nothing so impossible to police.

Good win for Utd today and certainly playing a lot better and with more confidence.
Top 4 predicted and another step towards the C/L
		
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Very good win for you's.

Even without any changes I believe every card should be reviewed as a matter of course.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 11, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Do you think Aguero's ban wont effect City's results?
		
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No, don't think any one player is or has ever been that good.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			What I see it trying to achieve is the stopping or controlling of deliberate non-sportsman like behaviour, whether that be cheating or petulant behaviour or violence, it's a full on contact sport and that shouldn't be curtailed, big difference between a mis-timed tackle than a deliberate 2 footed dive.

What does retrospective bans and fines achieve? The game isn't better for them, it has no real impact on a Club, whether your best player is banned or injured for 4 games makes no difference.

Forgetting the impact of promotion or relegation on a team for a monent financially 1 point can cost a team millions in mid-table position alone and this is the only thing modern clubs care about
		
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But they very rarely do retrospective bans or fines for a lot of issues so you don't know what the affect will be if more retrospective action is taken 

As was said earlier - yellow and red cards are part of a physical contact game 

What happens if a team only gets yellow and red cards from badly timed tackles no yellows for cheating or diving  - by your system they then get a points deduction just for poor tackling ?  Is the punishment fair or right then - imagine Sunderland battle all season long and pick up bookings from poor tackles or time wasting and then get enough yellows that they lose a point and because of that they are relegated ? Fair ? 

To me it sounds laughable and utterly ridiculous tbh 

As was also said earlier it's something that will never be introduced and rightly so.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 11, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			The more I see of him. The more I like Klopp. 

almost makes me want to see Liverpool win. Almost......
		
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Strange that, it has the opposite affect on me :rofl:


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## Old Skier (Dec 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Please feel free to show the post backing up your point.
		
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Last seasons thread and lifes to short.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Strange that, it has the opposite affect on me :rofl:
		
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funny old game!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But they very rarely do retrospective bans or fines for a lot of issues so you don't know what the affect will be if more retrospective action is taken 

As was said earlier - yellow and red cards are part of a physical contact game 

What happens if a team only gets yellow and red cards from badly timed tackles no yellows for cheating or diving  - by your system they then get a points deduction just for poor tackling ?  Is the punishment fair or right then - imagine Sunderland battle all season long and pick up bookings from poor tackles or time wasting and then get enough yellows that they lose a point and because of that they are relegated ? Fair ? 

To me it sounds laughable and utterly ridiculous tbh 

As was also said earlier it's something that will never be introduced and rightly so.
		
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So 3 or 4 can see some merit in it and we all agree it will never happen, but as it's simply a discussion putting different points of view and ideas to each other, the comments laughable and utterly ridiculous because you disagree with it really doesn't help and adds nothing to your otherwise intelligent comments.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 11, 2016)

Old Skier said:



			Last seasons thread and lifes to short.
		
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Thought so :thup:


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## Hobbit (Dec 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I'm not suggesting points being deducted for diving, I'm suggesting points for Red and Yellow cards, therefore every offence can have an impact, Players/managers would have to look at every aspect of their performance, 
Snodgrass will face absolutely no repucussions and his team certainly won't punish him. Makes no difference to him whether it's red or yellow, as far as the system cares he was fouled.
		
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Absolutely 100% behind you on this. The clubs are responsible for their player's behaviour, hence the fines for when a melee breaks out. And its the clubs that benefit from unpunished and weakly punished foul play. 

Every club has a player or three that could win an Oscar. Start off with fines/player ban, and if that doesn't sort it deduct points.

Every club gets the chance to sort it before a points deduction takes place. And if they can't get their own house in order, they deserve what's coming to them.


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## Slime (Dec 11, 2016)

It sounds like another Karius blunder.
Anyone see it?
He could cost Liverpool big time this season ........... here's hoping .


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## garyinderry (Dec 11, 2016)

He should have done better.     2nd one was a mess all round.


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## garyinderry (Dec 11, 2016)

Should have been a penalty there for sure.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 11, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			Should have been a penalty there for sure.
		
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Liverpool wouldn't have been happy if one like that was given against them.


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## ger147 (Dec 11, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			Should have been a penalty there for sure.
		
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Deffo not a penalty IMO.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 11, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I know 99% disagree, but that's why it should be a tier'd system, 30 bookings or 10 Reds - lose 1 point, 50 bookings or 15 Reds another 2 points, etc
With modern squads and wages missing 1 player for 3 games or 50 grand fines has little impact, losing points impacts on everyone and everyone would feel a collective responsibility.
		
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There has been rumours of Chelsea being deducted points as they've a history of "not controlling their players" even though Conte doesn't think it'll happen http://www.skysports.com/football/n...els-threat-of-chelsea-points-deduction-a-joke

I think in the instance we saw in the City game, and others where players constantly surround the referee (it still happens even though there was suppose to be a clampdown this season) on a regular basis, there's a clear example. I thought clubs were already fined under FA rules if the team reached a certain number of yellow and red cards per season. However the issue is contentious as a referee only gets one chance to make a decision and bookings can't be rescinded and it's clear in every game not every yellow is deserved and other challenges are then let off without punishment

Football needs to do more, especially on cheating/diving and nothing is working. The so called clampdown on holding at set pieces has been shown to be unmanageable and quietly forgotten about so that's as bad as ever. Players go down at the softest (if any) touch and continue to con referees. I don't see it working although the need is there


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 11, 2016)

Not a great result for Liverpool. A great save by the West Ham keeper from Henderson to make up for his blunder for the second Liverpool goal. I don't think the Liverpool keeper looks that good and certainly no better than Mignolet. The top of the table could get shaken up next week though with City v Arsenal and Liverpool will need something in the Mersey derby.


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## anotherdouble (Dec 11, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not a great result for Liverpool. A great save by the West Ham keeper from Henderson to make up for his blunder for the second Liverpool goal. I don't think the Liverpool keeper looks that good and certainly no better than Mignolet. The top of the table could get shaken up next week though with City v Arsenal and Liverpool will need something in the Mersey derby.
		
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With the way Chelsea and Leicester beat city I can see the gooner speed merchants running the city back 3  or 4 ragged and the way everybody are taking points of both Merseyside clubs it is the harder one to call


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## ger147 (Dec 11, 2016)

Good weekend for Man Utd, closing the gap to the top 4.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2016)

2 points dropped today 

Started well , great goal from Lallana 

Then let West Ham back into it 

Think the GK is getting a bit of unfair flak in regards the goal - his positioning is ok , the wall crumbled but think his hand was a bit weak. Think it's poor from Carra to focus the blame on the second goal to him when all the errors were in front of him. 

The situation with Karius is the way football is now - he is a young GK just arriving into the league , it's a very steep learning curve for anyone especially GK and he is being unfortunately crucified by certain pundits who should know better and understand that. I remember when De Gea first arrived and the lad was battered every single week ( not saying Karius is as good as De Gea ) but once he settled he showed how good he is. GK need time - it's ten games into his first season and thankfully I believe the manager is going to stick by him - shame some of the fans aren't.


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## garyinderry (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			2 points dropped today 

Started well , great goal from Lallana 

Then let West Ham back into it 

Think the GK is getting a bit of unfair flak in regards the goal - his positioning is ok , the wall crumbled but think his hand was a bit weak. Think it's poor from Carra to focus the blame on the second goal to him when all the errors were in front of him. 

The situation with Karius is the way football is now - he is a young GK just arriving into the league , it's a very steep learning curve for anyone especially GK and he is being unfortunately crucified by certain pundits who should know better and understand that. I remember when De Gea first arrived and the lad was battered every single week ( not saying Karius is as good as De Gea ) but once he settled he showed how good he is. GK need time - it's ten games into his first season and thankfully I believe the manager is going to stick by him - shame some of the fans aren't.
		
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I think they have called it just about right there. He was certainly indecisive on the 2nd goal. 

Anyway get big Ming back in. :whoo:


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## One Planer (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			2 points dropped today 

Started well , great goal from Lallana 

Then let West Ham back into it 

Think the GK is getting a bit of unfair flak in regards the goal - his positioning is ok , the wall crumbled but think his hand was a bit weak. Think it's poor from Carra to focus the blame on the second goal to him when all the errors were in front of him. 

The situation with Karius is the way football is now - he is a young GK just arriving into the league , it's a very steep learning curve for anyone especially GK and he is being unfortunately crucified by certain pundits who should know better and understand that. I remember when De Gea first arrived and the lad was battered every single week ( not saying Karius is as good as De Gea ) but once he settled he showed how good he is. GK need time - it's ten games into his first season and thankfully I believe the manager is going to stick by him - shame some of the fans aren't.
		
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Really?

I thought you were lucky to get anything. Especially as the West Ham keeper gifted you your equaliser.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 11, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Really?

I thought you were lucky to get anything. Especially as the West Ham keeper gifted you your equaliser.
		
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I think most would agree that 1 point was 2 less than expected prior to kick off. 

Agree on performance it was probably fair. Fast start for Liverpool but a blunder saved em. The save to Henderson wasn't as special as being portrayed IMO. Most keeps save those these days.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 11, 2016)

I think Karius is a bag of nerves. It's understandable and he has the makings of a decent keeper but he's no offering anything that Mignolet doesn't. The problem with Karius is that he's made the odd gaff and it's playing on his mind. He needs a run of good solid games to get acclimatised. He's not alone in struggling early on and many have had dodgy starts and gone on to have good PL careers. However I don't think he's the answer, but I don't think Mignolet is either and I'd like to see Liverpool get a top keeper, and shore that back four up and personally I think they'll be a PL title threat for a few seasons to come.

I'd love to see the pace of Arsenal rip City to shreds. I like the way they are playing this season and City are certainly there for the taking on current form but I'm expecting Pep to get a reaction from them at home, However I see a banana skin for Arsenal at Goodison midweek


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## Slime (Dec 11, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I think Karius is a bag of nerves. It's understandable and he has the makings of a decent keeper but he's no offering anything that Mignolet doesn't. The problem with Karius is that he's made the odd gaff and it's playing on his mind. He needs a run of good solid games to get acclimatised. He's not alone in struggling early on and many have had dodgy starts and gone on to have good PL careers. However I don't think he's the answer, but I don't think Mignolet is either and *I'd like to see Liverpool get a top keeper, and shore that back four up* and personally I think they'll be a PL title threat for a few seasons to come.
		
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Oi, easy Homer, leave well alone. 
It's okay just the way it is!


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 11, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Really?

I thought you were lucky to get anything. Especially as the West Ham keeper gifted you your equaliser.
		
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Well you've never had an objective view on our games have you,lets face it.

So your really saying West Ham deserved all 3 points?


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## Hobbit (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Well you've never had an objective view on our games have you,lets face it.

So your really saying West Ham deserved all 3 points?
		
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I thought a draw was fair. Liverpool dominated early on but took their foot off the gas mid first half. West Ham played well to get the equaliser. After that it could have gone either way. Liverpool looked great going forward, but West Ham broke quickly.

Neither defences looked stella. Still think Liverpool get their keepers out of a lucky bag, or is it an unlucky bag.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 11, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			I thought a draw was fair. Liverpool dominated early on but took their foot off the gas mid first half. West Ham played well to get the equaliser. After that it could have gone either way. Liverpool looked great going forward, but West Ham broke quickly.

Neither defences looked stella. Still think Liverpool get their keepers out of a lucky bag, or is it an unlucky bag.
		
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A fair assessment as West ham did look dangerous at times, but to say we deserved no points from our performance is the sign of a bitter mind.

On current and historical form, our keepers arent in the top 50 in the Prem and championship. Karius may turn it around, we dont know, Mignolet is not the long term answer.

I just hope that Klopp isnt to proud to realise he cant coach everyone to become miles better, or bring someone through for every position. Sometimes you just need to go out and BUY the right man.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			A fair assessment as West ham did look dangerous at times, but to say we deserved no points from our performance is the sign of a bitter mind.

On current and historical form, our keepers arent in the top 50 in the Prem and championship. Karius may turn it around, we dont know, Mignolet is not the long term answer.

I just hope that Klopp isnt to proud to realise he cant coach everyone to become miles better, or bring someone through for every position. Sometimes you just need to go out and BUY the right man.
		
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Just our luck that the cup isn't until Jan. 

Youll probabaly have signed forster by then to sort your problems......


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 11, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Just our luck that the cup isn't until Jan. 

Youll probabaly have signed forster by then to sort your problems......
		
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Youse are like cockroaches though, just as we buy one of yours, 3 more pop up......we just cant keep pace with you.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Youse are like cockroaches though, just as we buy one of yours, 3 more pop up......we just cant keep pace with you.

Click to expand...

The trick is to let the youngsters play just enough so as that it looks like we've got loads of cover and can afford to lose another star for 30m......

Not sure what's going on with fonte re a contract ATM and cb isn't a position we're blessed with cover.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 11, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			The trick is to let the youngsters play just enough so as that it looks like we've got loads of cover and can afford to lose another star for 30m......

Not sure what's going on with fonte re a contract ATM and cb isn't a position we're blessed with cover.
		
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Yes strange one with Fonte,who is class, just a shame he's 31, but still another good 2 years in him, I'd say.


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## One Planer (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Well you've never had an objective view on our games have you,lets face it.

So your really saying West Ham deserved all 3 points?
		
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Objective is such a curious word. 

I can be objective as I support neither team and can pass judgement on what I see. 

Did West Ham deserve all 3 points? Probably not, but ( in the quote referenced in my in my post) to say 2 points dropped does West Ham a disservice. 

On balance I think Liverpool may make top 4 this year.  Your attacking play is, IMO, the best in the league but you need your defense looking at in the coming window.

Not the keeper though.  I agree with Phil.  Once he's settled he'll come good.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 11, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Objective is such a curious word. 

I can be objective as I support neither team and can pass judgement on what I see. 

Did West Ham deserve all 3 points? Probably not, but ( in the quote referenced in my in my post) to say 2 points dropped does West Ham a disservice. 

On balance I think Liverpool may make top 4 this year.  Your attacking play is, IMO, the best in the league but you need your defense looking at in the coming window.

Not the keeper though.  I agree with Phil.  Once he's settled he'll come good.
		
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A more reasoned approach, as you normally go with the anti-Liverpool, stance on every occasion since you were knocked out the cup last year, for some reason. Move on. 

Your not saying anything new about our defence or keeper,that hasnt been said before.

I dont like to use stats solely to back up an argument, but we had 10 times (literally) touches in their box than they did in ours, so IMHO it is a dis-service to Liverpool to suggest that West ham should and did deserve to get all the points. They had 5 touches in our box (their season low), to our 59 in theirs.Curious that.:thup:


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## One Planer (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			A more reasoned approach, as you normally go with the anti-Liverpool, stance on every occasion since you were knocked out the cup last year, for some reason. Move on. 

Your not saying anything new about our defence or keeper,that hasnt been said before.

*I dont like to use stats solely to back up an argument, but we had 10 times (literally) touches in their box than they did in ours, so IMHO it is a dis-service to Liverpool to suggest that West ham should and did deserve to get all the points. They had 5 touches in our box (their season low), to our 59 in theirs*.Curious that.:thup:
		
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So is that a mark of West Ham efficiency or Liverpool wastefulness/Over playing?


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## garyinderry (Dec 11, 2016)

Mane is thee man the pool need to keep fit.  Makes the team buzz and the only one who always looks a threat.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 11, 2016)

One Planer said:



			So is that a mark of West Ham efficiency or Liverpool wastefulness/Over playing?
		
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It can be a sign of both, but what it does show is that we had more shots, pressure etc than them , so would suggest that if anyone deserved a win, or at least a draw, it was us.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 11, 2016)

Man U "fans" booing Fellaini - poor form.


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## One Planer (Dec 11, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			It can be a sign of both, but what it does show is that we had more shots, pressure etc than them , so would suggest that if anyone deserved a win, or at least a draw, it was us.
		
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You could also see it as West Ham defended better than Liverpool, which they did. 

If West Ham scored two worldys firm 35 yards and head no more touches in the Liverpool area does that make the result less of a draw?

I think we agree that's stats can paint different pictures depending on viewpoint. 

As for the ManU fans booing, totally agree. I can understand why but that doesn't excuse it.


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## Sweep (Dec 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Man U "fans" booing Fellaini - poor form.
		
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Absolutely disgraceful behaviour from our fans. Embarrassing.


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## pbrown7582 (Dec 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Man U "fans" booing Fellaini - poor form.
		
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:clap:

would like to say it was a few JCL with half n halves but the few it was were ST holders in the Stretford end when he started warming up, although the boo's were reasonably quickly drowned out by applause until the substitution then again quite a large minority. Modern day football


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## pbrown7582 (Dec 12, 2016)

One Planer said:



			As for the ManU fans booing, totally agree. I can understand why but that doesn't excuse it.
		
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There IS NO EXCUSE for it! 

Wasn't even a pen last week!


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## stokie_93 (Dec 12, 2016)

Totally outplayed 2nd half on Saturday by Arsenal.

Bellerin made the difference when he came on, very very good player. We looked bright first half down the left until he came on.

As for Arsenal, they really are a terrible bunch aren't they.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 12, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			Mane is thee man the pool need to keep fit.  Makes the team buzz and the only one who always looks a threat.
		
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Be interesting to see how Liverpool get on when Mane goes off to the ACON in January especially with Coutinho is still out injured.


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## Slime (Dec 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Man U "fans" booing Fellaini - poor form.
		
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I am one of those who would love to see him sold, the sooner the better, but I will NEVER boo a United player.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 12, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			There IS NO EXCUSE for it! 

Wasn't even a pen last week! 

Click to expand...

:rofl: :rofl:


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## Paperboy (Dec 12, 2016)

Looks like Arsenal are probably going out of the Champion's League in the first knockout round.

Man City have a decent chance, and if Leicester play well may cause an upset.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 12, 2016)

One Planer said:



			You could also see it as West Ham defended better than Liverpool, which they did. 

If West Ham scored two worldys firm 35 yards and head no more touches in the Liverpool area does that make the result less of a draw?

I think we agree that's stats can paint different pictures depending on viewpoint. 

As for the ManU fans booing, totally agree. I can understand why but that doesn't excuse it.
		
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West ham did defend better than Liverpool (its not hard), but the vast majority of people would judge the "deserving" of a result based on chances and pressure in the box, of which we had an overwhelming amount.

I cant understand or excuse the booing of Fellaini.

I can only understand booing your own player if he spoke ill of the club, fans or was totally engineering a move away, if in the extreme.

Booing a player because he made a tackle in a match, though????


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 12, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Be interesting to see how Liverpool get on when Mane goes off to the ACON in January especially with Coutinho is still out injured.
		
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Coutinho is due to come back 1-2 weeks before Mane goes, so hopefully it will cross over.

I think we need another striker/winger type anyway with Ings being out for the season and Sturridge being made out of pipe cleaner stuck together with jucy fruit. Glad to see Ojo coming back from injury, but whether Jurgen may dip into our transfer fund remains to be seen.

Our need for a left back has diminished, so only need a CH to replace Sakho and another forward......unless a boss keeper becomes available, but I think he'll stick with Mignolet and Karius until the summer.

BTW - Arsenal - you should have consolidated 2nd in your group.:rofl:


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## sawtooth (Dec 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			BTW - Arsenal - you should have consolidated 2nd in your group.:rofl:
		
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Was always going to happen but if we go out it will help our cause in the league and if we get past Bayern the confidence will be sky high. Gotta look at the positives.


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## USER1999 (Dec 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie;1615887

BTW - Arsenal - you should have consolidated 2nd in your group.:rofl:[/QUOTE said:
			
		


			And then we would have got Barcelona instead.

I wanted Real Madrid.
		
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## MegaSteve (Dec 12, 2016)

murphthemog said:



			And then we would have got Barcelona instead.

I wanted Real Madrid.
		
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My lad was hoping for another trip to the Nou Camp...


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## sawtooth (Dec 12, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Be interesting to see how Liverpool get on when Mane goes off to the ACON in January especially with Coutinho is still out injured.
		
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They still have For-Me-No and Stutteridge ;-)


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## Fish (Dec 12, 2016)

MegaSteve said:



			My lad was hoping for another trip to the Nou Camp...
		
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The Nou Camp is just a concrete toilet!

A good few days can be had  around the city but the ground is a wreck, it only looks good on the TV when it's full, your stuck up in the gods uncovered in the winter freezing yer nuts off so it's a poor stadium considering its hosts IMO.


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## stokie_93 (Dec 12, 2016)

Fish said:



			The Nou Camp is just a concrete toilet!
		
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With you on this one mate, was so underwhelmed when we went.

The Bernabeu is by far a nicer stadium.


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## MegaSteve (Dec 12, 2016)

Fish said:



			The Nou Camp is just a concrete toilet!
		
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That it might be... But, the atmosphere is a bit special...


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 12, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Was always going to happen but if we go out it will help our cause in the league and if we get past Bayern the confidence will be sky high. Gotta look at the positives.
		
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Its called Sods law, Sean.:thup:

No foregone conclusion that Bayern will get through, as on your day Arsenal can trouble anyone, but its whether you have enough mettle to get through a Bayern and a Madrid or Barca, if not all 3.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 12, 2016)

Fish said:



			The Nou Camp is just a concrete toilet!

A good few days can be had  around the city but the ground is a wreck, it only looks good on the TV when it's full, your stuck up in the gods uncovered in the winter freezing yer nuts off so it's a poor stadium considering its hosts IMO.
		
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Not a great atmosphere either, for 98,000 people.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 12, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



With you on this one mate, was so underwhelmed when we went.

The Bernabeu is by far a nicer stadium.

Click to expand...

Yep, its cleaner, more grande and a better atmosphere.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 12, 2016)

MegaSteve said:



			That it might be... But, the atmosphere is a bit special...
		
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Do you think?

Ive been to Genoa, Milan, Roma, Galatasaray, Athletico, Valencia, Real, Celtic, PSG, Marseille, Dortmund, Ajax and more and all have been better than Barca.

OK they dont have a roof, which doesnt help to keep any atmosphere in, but they are more like theatre-goers than fans at Barca.


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## Fish (Dec 12, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Do you think?

Ive been to Genoa, Milan, Roma, Galatasaray, Athletico, Valencia, Real, Celtic, PSG, Marseille, Dortmund, Ajax and more and all have been better than Barca.

OK they dont have a roof, which doesnt help to keep any atmosphere in, but they are more like theatre-goers than fans at Barca.
		
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I agree, it's the poorest out of all those you mention and some.  When the ends of the stadiums chant at each other it's pretty special, Marseille being the most memorable along with PSG, I went to an Ajax Vs Feyenord and that was electric and borderline frightening, but not as bad as CSK who attached our hotel in huge numbers in the middle of the night, the police came and brought along a coach and said they were moving us all (30+) for our own safety but took us all back to the airport and flew us out  &#128545;

Best nights on the town before & after has to be Sofia though,we  just couldn't spend our money, they loved us, but sorry looking for a capitol though, still war torn.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 12, 2016)

Fish said:



			I agree, it's the poorest out of all those you mention and some.  When the ends of the stadiums chant at each other it's pretty special, Marseille being the most memorable along with PSG, I went to an Ajax Vs Feyenord and that was electric and borderline frightening, but not as bad as CSK who attached our hotel in huge numbers in the middle of the night, the police came and brought along a coach and said they were moving us all (30+) for our own safety but took us all back to the airport and flew us out  &#63009;

Best nights on the town before & after has to be Sofia though,we  just couldn't spend our money, they loved us, but sorry looking for a capitol though, still war torn.
		
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Yes, Marseille is special for that, and I can imagine more so, now that they have a roof.

Genoa was great as a tidy, compact 45k seater that is all enclosed and as they are the little neighbours of Sampdoria, they wanted to put a big show on, especially playing Liverpool in a European game.

Galatasaray for sheer effort at the Al Semi Yen, only 21,000 (as had become all seater when I went), but they made it sound like 60, 000. Everyone sang, and at the top of their voice for the full 90 minutes. They had been in there for 6 hours before also - the're mad.

Me and 2 mates got battered by CSKA also......even though we were playing Spartak.

Was your hotel the Rossiya, literally over the road from the Kremlin, by St. Basils?


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## pbrown7582 (Dec 12, 2016)

Al Semi Yen was amazing from an atmosphere point of view but a hole of a place! 
It was certainly a welcome to hell.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 12, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Al Semi Yen was amazing from an atmosphere point of view but a hole of a place! 
It was certainly a welcome to hell.
		
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Did you go the "Cantona" one - I think it held around 40k then, so may have been even better.


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## pbrown7582 (Dec 12, 2016)

Yep that's the one! All hell broke loose the night before and the welcome was even warmer by the time the day trippers turned up. 
Think it was a good job they won with the state of our coaches afterwards anyway.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 12, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Yep that's the one! All hell broke loose the night before and the welcome was even warmer by the time the day trippers turned up. 
Think it was a good job they won with the state of our coaches afterwards anyway.
		
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We went about 1 or 2 years after the Leeds game, but tbh we were treated great. Ok, we were bussed in and out but no probs the night before or on the night of the game.

It may have been different if you made your own way to the ground though.

A man U lad in our place is considering going to his first European away for St. Etienne - I've told him to be verrrrryyyy careful, as they may be looking for revenge.


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## Slime (Dec 12, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



With you on this one mate, was so underwhelmed when we went.
*The Bernabeu is by far a nicer stadium*.

Click to expand...

And it's graced by the best player in the world .


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 12, 2016)

Slime said:



			And it's graced by the best player in the world .
		
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Has Leon Osman signed for Real Madrid? :rofl:


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## pbrown7582 (Dec 13, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			We went about 1 or 2 years after the Leeds game, but tbh we were treated great. Ok, we were bussed in and out but no probs the night before or on the night of the game.

It may have been different if you made your own way to the ground though.

A man U lad in our place is considering going to his first European away for St. Etienne - I've told him to be verrrrryyyy careful, as they may be looking for revenge.
		
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i was with the official party so we were looked after well beforehand, but the night before the game there was all sorts of mither, and resulted in a plane load being escorted out of there hotel with tanks and everyone deported.



Watch out for low flying baguettes.......... And gendarmes batons.......


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 13, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			i was with the official party so we were looked after well beforehand, but the night before the game there was all sorts of mither, and resulted in a plane load being escorted out of there hotel with tanks and everyone deported.



Watch out for low flying baguettes.......... And gendarmes batons.......
		
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I presume you mean for Gala.......you would have been too young for St. Etienne away in the 70's, wouldn't you?


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## stokie_93 (Dec 13, 2016)

Slime said:



			And it's graced by the best player in the world .
		
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you're telling me Joe Allen doesn't play for Stoke anymore?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 13, 2016)

stokie_93 said:



			you're telling me Joe Allen doesn't play for Stoke anymore? 

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He's not fit to clean Leon's boots :rofl:


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## stokie_93 (Dec 13, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			He's not fit to clean Leon's boots :rofl:
		
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Joe Allen is fit enough to do anything. 

Rumour has it he can win a game of connect 4, in 3 movesâ€¦


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 13, 2016)

:whoo: :whoo: :whoo:

An if you know your history,
It's enough to make your heart go
................

:whoo: :whoo: :whoo:


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## garyinderry (Dec 13, 2016)

Good honest game of footy.  Everton needed a response and they got it tonight.   fully deserved.   


What a finish to that game.


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## Slime (Dec 13, 2016)

Is this where it all starts to go horribly wrong for Arsenal?


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## pokerjoke (Dec 13, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			:whoo: :whoo: :whoo:

An if you know your history,
It's enough to make your heart go
................

:whoo: :whoo: :whoo:
		
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Great 2nd half mate and what a finish,have not seen the replays yet but was there a penalty missed right at the end?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 13, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Great 2nd half mate and what a finish,have not seen the replays yet but was there a penalty missed right at the end?
		
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Don't know Tony, I was behind the sofa :rofl:


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## upsidedown (Dec 13, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			Good honest game of footy.  Everton needed a response and they got it tonight.   fully deserved.   


What a finish to that game.
		
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:thup:


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## sawtooth (Dec 13, 2016)

No complaints and hats off to Everton they were very good tonight.

I don't think that it was a pen at the death with Sanchez.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 13, 2016)

Crazy finish and a good result for Everton. Big game on Sunday now for Arsenal. They need a win but I can see City doing them


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## garyinderry (Dec 13, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Great 2nd half mate and what a finish,have not seen the replays yet but was there a penalty missed right at the end?
		
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Be nice to see again.   only a maybe...


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			No complaints and hats off to Everton they were very good tonight.

I don't think that it was a pen at the death with Sanchez.
		
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Arsenal looked tired tonight.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Don't know Tony, I was behind the sofa :rofl:
		
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What happened to #wegothegame?


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## pbrown7582 (Dec 13, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I presume you mean for Gala.......you would have been too young for St. Etienne away in the 70's, wouldn't you?
		
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Yeah too young for Euro aways 70's  but one of dads mates who was like an unofficial grandad went and came back with lumps and bumps all over his semi bald head. Utter mayhem by all accounts but then that was norm for most of our away games in those days!


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 13, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Arsenal looked tired tonight.
		
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Not sure they looked tired. Plenty of spirited running especially going forward but definitely lacked a killer pass and short of ideas up front


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 13, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			What happened to #wegothegame?
		
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Had a halfnhalf posted to me to wear in me armchair&#128515;


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## garyinderry (Dec 13, 2016)

Everton played to their strengths.  Strong running, hard tackling, good battling from big rom. 

There is no excuse for not having that intensity every single game.  You don't have to wait for the lights.


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## garyinderry (Dec 13, 2016)

Would like to have seen a bit more aggression from arsenal.  That was a fight tonight and they weren't right up for it.  Some good shows but not all. 


Should have hooked theo earlier and got Giroud on earlier.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 13, 2016)

Only half the Arsenal team turned up tonight.

Walcott,chamberlin and even Ozil were way below par and you cant afford to carry passengers,i would also question Wenger and why he left it so late to put Giroud on,walcott could still be playing and not look like scoring.

Good news though Utd will be 4th by the new year.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 13, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Only half the Arsenal team turned up tonight.

Walcott,chamberlin and even Ozil were way below par and you cant afford to carry passengers,i would also question Wenger and why he left it so late to put Giroud on,walcott could still be playing and not look like scoring.

Good news though Utd will be 4th by the new year.
		
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Not sure I'd agree only half the team turned up. I thought they were the better side for large periods of the game either side of the Everton equaliser and then got undone at a set piece. I will admit that Walcott was poor but I thought Ozil did enough, Not sure Chamberlain got the ball enough, certainly where he good do some damage. Not doubting they (Arsenal) will have to up their game big time for the trip to City as I think Pep will want a massive reaction after the Leicester debacle


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not sure they looked tired. Plenty of spirited running especially going forward but definitely lacked a killer pass and short of ideas up front
		
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Just an opinion ref:thup:


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## garyinderry (Dec 13, 2016)

Ozil may well as not be in the box defending for that winning goal.  Made no attempt to attack the ball.  Has to shoulder so blame for that.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 13, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			Ozil may well as not be in the box defending for that winning goal.  Made no attempt to attack the ball.  Has to shoulder so blame for that.
		
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He's still Arsenals best footballer.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 13, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			:whoo: :whoo: :whoo:

An if you know your history,
It's enough to make your heart go
................

:whoo: :whoo: :whoo:
		
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Why are you singing a Celtic / Rangers / Spurs song?


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 13, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Great 2nd half mate and what a finish,have not seen the replays yet but was there a penalty missed right at the end?
		
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Certainly looked it in real time, but not after seeing the replays.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 13, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Yeah too young for Euro aways 70's  but one of dads mates who was like an unofficial grandad went and came back with lumps and bumps all over his semi bald head. Utter mayhem by all accounts but then that was norm for most of our away games in those days!
		
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Good to see someone knows his history.:thup: BTW, you were banned after it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 13, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Why are you singing a Celtic / Rangers / Spurs song?
		
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You know all about singing Celtic songs :thup:


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 13, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			You know all about singing Celtic songs :thup:
		
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## pbrown7582 (Dec 14, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Good to see someone knows his history.:thup: BTW, you were banned after it.

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got back in on appeal but had to play 200miles away from OT in the second leg. Celtic was not allowed as an option so 2nd leg was played at Home Park


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## Fish (Dec 14, 2016)

I see whinging Wenger can only go on about and openly criticise Clattenburg afterwards, it will be interesting to see if he gets fined or banned, but don't hold your breathe though, the FA  only pick on certain managers and clubs &#128545;

Big matches now tonight and there are some awkward away fixtures, so I can see City leapfrogging Liverpool and Spurs closing the gap on them, Arsenal have started their preparations early sliding towards their favourite finishing position, but I think they could slide a bit more as others strengthen in January when we all know Wenger won't &#128540;

,


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## pokerjoke (Dec 14, 2016)

Fish said:



			I see whinging Wenger can only go on about and openly criticise Clattenburg afterwards, it will be interesting to see if he gets fined or banned, but don't hold your breathe though, the FA  only pick on certain managers and clubs &#128545;

Big matches now tonight and there are some awkward away fixtures, so I can see City leapfrogging Liverpool and Spurs closing the gap on them, Arsenal have started their preparations early sliding towards their favourite finishing position, but I think they could slide a bit more as others strengthen in January when we all know Wenger won't &#128540;

,
		
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To be fair I did see an interview where he gives Everton some credit although he said they treated it like a cup game.

Some good games coming up now and up to the new year we could see some big changes.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 14, 2016)

Karius dropped tonight, very surprised at that decision.

Hopefully Klopp has done it to try to protect him, Mignolet will be under massive scrutiny. I hope his kicking has improved...


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## pokerjoke (Dec 14, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Karius dropped tonight, very surprised at that decision.

Hopefully Klopp has done it to try to protect him, Mignolet will be under massive scrutiny. I hope his kicking has improved...
		
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He should be he will end up costing you points,however now that's a real slap in the face.

Imo Mig is better but neither inspires confidence and next season I expect both not to be a No1

Imo Klopp has just knocked his confidence but I'm only guessing,who knows what has been said.

The good news is for the teams around you and ones just behind as Klopp doesn't know his best team and cracks are starting to show


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			He should be he will end up costing you points,however now that's a real slap in the face.

Imo Mig is better but neither inspires confidence and next season I expect both not to be a No1

Imo Klopp has just knocked his confidence but I'm only guessing,who knows what has been said.

The good news is for the teams around you and ones just behind as Klopp doesn't know his best team and cracks are starting to show
		
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Doesn't know his best team ? How do you come to that conclusion ?


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 14, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Karius dropped tonight, very surprised at that decision.

Hopefully Klopp has done it to try to protect him, Mignolet will be under massive scrutiny. I hope his kicking has improved...
		
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Well mate, to add grist to your mill, you only have to look at our bench tonight to see how much a lack of investment by the owners may cost us. Yep, we have a good few injuries at the mo, but you should have 22-25 minimum experienced players to start with. We've got a few injuries and 4 of our subs are teenagers.


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## sawtooth (Dec 14, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Karius dropped tonight, very surprised at that decision.

Hopefully Klopp has done it to try to protect him, Mignolet will be under massive scrutiny. I hope his kicking has improved...
		
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Personally I would have thought it would have been better to persevere with Karius. Now the whole world will be watching Mignolet and murphys law he will do something silly tonight, is bound to happen.

It should be wins on paper for Chelsea, City, Liverpool , Utd and Spurs tonight, but as we all know football isn't played on paper


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 14, 2016)

I don't think Mignolet offers anything different to Karius and its going to knock his confidence once he gets back in. It's definitely an area that Liverpool needed to have really addressed in the summer but haven't resolved it and I think the keeper and back four is the place where Liverpool will struggle especially if they get injuries and suspensions


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## sawtooth (Dec 14, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I don't think Mignolet offers anything different to Karius and its going to knock his confidence once he gets back in. It's definitely an area that Liverpool needed to have really addressed in the summer but haven't resolved it and I think the keeper and back four is the place where Liverpool will struggle especially if they get injuries and suspensions
		
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It's too early to write Karius off, every player needs time and a chance to settle.  The jury is definitely out but he could still turn out to be a great signing for them.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 14, 2016)

I'd love him at Everton but if I was klopp I'd be going for Begovic in January. Waste of a cracking keeper sat on the bench.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 14, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			It's too early to write Karius off, every player needs time and a chance to settle.  The jury is definitely out but he could still turn out to be a great signing for them.
		
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Not writing him off but he's had a rocky start and dropping him so quickly won't help the confidence going forward. As I said I don't see what Mignolet adds and wonder if he could have been given more time


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## Slime (Dec 14, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Karius dropped tonight, very surprised at that decision.

*Hopefully Klopp has done it to try to protect him*, Mignolet will be under massive scrutiny. I hope his kicking has improved...
		
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No, no .................. he's just realised that Carragher and the Nevilles are, indeed, correct!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 14, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Karius dropped tonight, very surprised at that decision.

Hopefully Klopp has done it to try to protect him, Mignolet will be under massive scrutiny. I hope his kicking has improved...
		
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It's Klippety playing mind games, Mingolet comes in tonight against a small team that you'll beat easily and does nothing to impress. Karius restored monday and has a worldie against us, Klippety's a hero and I bury me head in sand till May&#128515;


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2016)

Rojo with another two footed lunge and should be a red card


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## fundy (Dec 14, 2016)

yet again Rojo commits another horrid 2 footed lunge and yet again doesnt see red, so hard done by eh Jose


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 14, 2016)

fundy said:



			yet again Rojo commits another horrid 2 footed lunge and yet again doesnt see red, so hard done by eh Jose 

Click to expand...

Two in two games and as Howard Webb said, he's not learning any lessons. Definitely red


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## fundy (Dec 14, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Two in two games and as Howard Webb said, he's not learning any lessons. Definitely red
		
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more concerning the refs arent learning any lessons (or acting on whats right in front of their eyes)!


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 14, 2016)

How has he got away with that twice; Jose's pressure on the refs telling?


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## Papas1982 (Dec 14, 2016)

fundy said:



*more concerning the refs arent learning any lessons* (or acting on whats right in front of their eyes)!
		
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whilst I agree he should have gone both times. That to me looks like you're suggesting they should have his card marked before kick off. 

That only leads to trouble.


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## Fish (Dec 14, 2016)

Big 3 points that taking us 6 points clear, and although it will be no picnic away to Palace early on Saturday, with Arsenal & Man City playing each other along with the Merseyside derby and also Manure away to West Brom I can only see 1 banker in Spurs so they'll be a few more positional changes by the end of the weekend, except us &#128540;&#128077;&#128526;


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2016)

Well that Manc match had some of the worst referring you will see

Rojo should have gone 
First goal was handball then offside
Then should have been a handball and penalty 
Then a disallowed goal that should have stood 
Then Pogba it appeared to take a dive when on a yellow 

Just shocking from the ref


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## davemc1 (Dec 14, 2016)

Wer gonna win the lea.... oh ang on, Chelsea won again &#128078;


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## fundy (Dec 14, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well that Manc match had some of the worst referring you will see

Rojo should have gone 
First goal was handball then offside
Then should have been a handball and penalty 
Then a disallowed goal that should have stood 
Then Pogba it appeared to take a dive when on a yellow 

Just shocking from the ref
		
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as good an advert youre going to see for introducing video replays that game, cant remember a big decision thhe ref got right


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 14, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			How has he got away with that twice; Jose's pressure on the refs telling?
		
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Did he get away with it again,due to getting a yellow?


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 14, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Did he get away with it again,due to getting a yellow?
		
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Yes mate, he did; there's no doubt it should have been red, a ban and down to 10 men for the remainder of the game.  A yellow is hardly an adequate substitute for what he should have got, yet assures him that he won't get a retrospective ban as the referee has apparently dealt with it.  You could argue a yellow is actually worse than no card at all as no card would at least leave a retrospective ban as a possibility.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 14, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Yes mate, he did; there's no doubt it should have been red, a ban and down to 10 men for the remainder of the game.  A yellow is hardly an adequate substitute for what he should have got, yet assures him that he won't get a retrospective ban as the referee has apparently dealt with it.  You could argue a yellow is actually worse than no card at all as no card would at least leave a retrospective ban as a possibility.
		
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Yep, and for two games in quick succession. By rights he would have now been banned for at least 4 games for two reds.

The law (FA) is an ass.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 14, 2016)

Bradley Lowery is a 5yr Old local lad up here who has Leukemia. You may or may not of seen the fundraisings efforts of the Sunderland Fans to raise money to get him to America for treatment, unfortunately last week his family were told the heartbreaking news that the cancer had returned and he may only have a few months left.
So tonight Sunderland made him the mascot against Chelsea and before the game he went on to the pitch with the players.
Diego Costa was superb with him, he took him into the 18yd box, had a knock about with him and then got Bradley to take a few penalties against Courtois, he scored them all, twice sending Courtois the wrong way &#128515;
Hats off to Chelsea, his little face was beaming when he left the pitch.
We get enough slagging of each others teams, nice to be able to post a positive.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 14, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Bradley Lowery is a 5yr Old local lad up here who has Leukemia. You may or may not of seen the fundraisings efforts of the Sunderland Fans to raise money to get him to America for treatment, unfortunately last week his family were told the heartbreaking news that the cancer had returned and he may only have a few months left.
So tonight Sunderland made him the mascot against Chelsea and before the game he went on to the pitch with the players.
Diego Costa was superb with him, he took him into the 18yd box, had a knock about with him and then got Bradley to take a few penalties against Courtois, he scored them all, twice sending Courtois the wrong way &#62979;
Hats off to Chelsea, his little face was beaming when he left the pitch.
We get enough slagging of each others teams, nice to be able to post a positive.
		
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:thup: Poor little mite.


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## chrisd (Dec 15, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well that Manc match had some of the worst referring you will see

Rojo should have gone 
First goal was handball then offside
Then should have been a handball and penalty 
Then a disallowed goal that should have stood 
Then Pogba it appeared to take a dive when on a yellow 

Just shocking from the ref
		
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IT seems at the moment if we can get a decision from a ref it's a shocking one!


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## Fish (Dec 15, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Yes mate, he did; there's no doubt it should have been red, a ban and down to 10 men for the remainder of the game.  A yellow is hardly an adequate substitute for what he should have got, yet assures him that he won't get a retrospective ban as the referee has apparently dealt with it.  You could argue a yellow is actually worse than no card at all as no card would at least leave a retrospective ban as a possibility.
		
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Maybe a another colour card should be introduced, let's say a blue one for 'going on report', very much like in RL when it's obvious to all concerned something has happened but the ref can't be 100% sure, this then stops him dishing out a yellow as a safety net believing he has then dealt with it but as in a few cases we have all seen just lately, that can benefit player instead of punishing him correctly.  A board then reviews the incident within 72 hours and the appropriate punishment, if any is announced.

Seems a simple and effective measure to me, keeps the game moving as a swift blue is shown which would also play on the player's mind the rest of the match and would also eliminate the amount of diving as blue cards in those incidents could then be much easily dealt with than they are now.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 15, 2016)

chrisd said:



			IT seems at the moment if we can get a decision from a ref it's a shocking one!
		
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The old " if I didn't have bad luck, I'd have no luck at all" comes to mind.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 15, 2016)

Fish said:



			Maybe a another colour card should be introduced, let's say a blue one for 'going on report', very much like in RL when it's obvious to all concerned something has happened but the ref can't be 100% sure, this then stops him dishing out a yellow as a safety net believing he has then dealt with it but as in a few cases we have all seen just lately, that can benefit player instead of punishing him correctly.  A board then reviews the incident within 72 hours and the appropriate punishment, if any is announced.

Seems a simple and effective measure to me, keeps the game moving as a swift blue is shown which would also play on the player's mind the rest of the match and would also eliminate the amount of diving as blue cards in those incidents could then be much easily dealt with than they are now.
		
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That's an interesting idea. Would a blue card in your example also count as a yellow? So in the case of Rojo last night if the ref had shown him a blue card and then later in the game had shown him a yellow for another foul would that still equal a red card?

EDIT - Do you think it might lead to more refs "bottling" the big decisions? If they know they can give a blue card rather than a straight red they might be more inclined to do that and let the review panel decide.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 15, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			He should be he will end up costing you points,however now that's a real slap in the face.

Imo Mig is better but neither inspires confidence and next season I expect both not to be a No1

Imo Klopp has just knocked his confidence but I'm only guessing,who knows what has been said.

The good news is for the teams around you and ones just behind as Klopp doesn't know his best team and cracks are starting to show
		
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I disagree Mingolet is better, Karius' kicking alone is 10x better than Mingolet and he's come for more crosses than Mingolet ever has done.

Klopp Definitely knows his best 11, he can't play it though due to injuries and the lack of quality in depth is showing.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 15, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Well mate, to add grist to your mill, *you only have to look at our bench tonight to see how much a lack of investment by the owners may cost us*. Yep, we have a good few injuries at the mo, but you should have 22-25 minimum experienced players to start with. We've got a few injuries and 4 of our subs are teenagers.
		
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I agree, some of the yanks apologists wouldn't though, they've backed every manager apparently....


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## anotherdouble (Dec 15, 2016)

Fish said:



			Maybe a another colour card should be introduced, let's say a blue one for 'going on report', very much like in RL when it's obvious to all concerned something has happened but the ref can't be 100% sure, this then stops him dishing out a yellow as a safety net believing he has then dealt with it but as in a few cases we have all seen just lately, that can benefit player instead of punishing him correctly.  A board then reviews the incident within 72 hours and the appropriate punishment, if any is announced.

Seems a simple and effective measure to me, keeps the game moving as a swift blue is shown which would also play on the player's mind the rest of the match and would also eliminate the amount of diving as blue cards in those incidents could then be much easily dealt with than they are now.
		
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Not against this idea but some people are saying that the refs in RL no longer make decisions they just refer everything. I can easily see this happening. The refs will bottle everything and just issue 10 blue cards a game


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 15, 2016)

Fish said:



			Maybe a another colour card should be introduced, let's say a blue one for 'going on report', very much like in RL when it's obvious to all concerned something has happened but the ref can't be 100% sure, this then stops him dishing out a yellow as a safety net believing he has then dealt with it but as in a few cases we have all seen just lately, that can benefit player instead of punishing him correctly.  A board then reviews the incident within 72 hours and the appropriate punishment, if any is announced.

Seems a simple and effective measure to me, keeps the game moving as a swift blue is shown which would also play on the player's mind the rest of the match and would also eliminate the amount of diving as blue cards in those incidents could then be much easily dealt with than they are now.
		
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I think it's an idea with merit - having some sort of system where the ref would like to put someone on report to check after to see if it's still a yellow or warrants something stronger


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## fundy (Dec 15, 2016)

or they could stop being so precious and supporting refs making incorrect decisions and allow them to be reviewed whether they've given a yellow card or not


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## Fish (Dec 15, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			That's an interesting idea. Would a blue card in your example also count as a yellow? So in the case of Rojo last night if the ref had shown him a blue card and then later in the game had shown him a yellow for another foul would that still equal a red card?

EDIT - Do you think it might lead to more refs "bottling" the big decisions? If they know they can give a blue card rather than a straight red they might be more inclined to do that and let the review panel decide.
		
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I think the blue card should be a minimum yellow as the ref or linesman has seen an offence that would at the very least warrant it but it would carry the ability for it to be reviewed and upgraded to a red. 

A yellow still stands with no review required and a blue for an offence that warranted a yellow but the official couldn't determine the intent or anything else that went on unseen.  This I believe would then not let the refs bottle it throwing blues about as they still have to commit to a yellow in the normal way.


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## NWJocko (Dec 15, 2016)

Fish said:



			I think the blue card should be a minimum yellow as the ref or linesman has seen an offence that would at the very least warrant it but it would carry the ability for it to be reviewed and upgraded to a red. 

A yellow still stands with no review required and a blue for an offence that warranted a yellow but the official couldn't determine the intent or anything else that went on unseen.  This I believe would then not let the refs bottle it throwing blues about as they still have to commit to a yellow in the normal way.
		
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Would you not still end up with a debate over a yellow that should have been a "blue" though but nothing can be done?

I agree with fundy, would be far easier just to allow review of yellow card decisions where TV shows something more than seen by the officials at the time.


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## pendodave (Dec 15, 2016)

fundy said:



			or they could stop being so precious and supporting refs making incorrect decisions and allow them to be reviewed whether they've given a yellow card or not
		
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This x several. 

Why would a decent ref have a problem in finding out that a tackle was much worse than it appeared in realtime? It is downright ridiculous that someone who jumps in with two feet escapes a ban as a result of a ref it getting slightly wrong in the heat of the moment.


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## Junior (Dec 15, 2016)

I like the idea of a blue card, but would say that during the post match review, any card decision can be reviewed by the refs.  &#12288;

Rojo should have been sent off twice now, Pogba should have gone for a 2nd yellow for diving.  Neither would have bothered me in the slightest as Blind is a better CB and Mata is a better footballer than Pogba.


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Nigel Owens (the rugby ref) made a good point when asked on 5live the other day whether a TMO could be brought into footy, and he replied that rugby had suitable hold up points to accommodate it whereas footy was faster paced and didn't  lend itself to that type of hold up so he thought it wouldn't work. 
However what they could do is have some sort of TMO who just watches the whole game without contact with the ref and inserts flag points on any action the ref misses to be assessed straight after the game to see if they need further action. At least then less could be got away with or missed, accepting the current process Sint that effective.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 15, 2016)

fundy said:



			or they could stop being so precious and supporting refs making incorrect decisions and allow them to be reviewed whether they've given a yellow card or not
		
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^This^ They review the whole game anyway, why not be honest, remove yellow cards when refs have over reacted and increase to red when they've got that wrong.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 15, 2016)

chrisd said:



			IT seems at the moment if we can get a decision from a ref it's a shocking one!
		
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Stuart_C said:



			The old " if I didn't have bad luck, I'd have no luck at all" comes to mind.
		
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As long as it continues on Saturdayâ€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦. 

(If it goes the other way on Saturday I'll never hear the last of it from the Old Timer :mmm

To be fair Chris, he did chalk off a good goal in your favour and completely ignored Ledley's volleyball moment.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 15, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Bradley Lowery is a 5yr Old local lad up here who has Leukemia. You may or may not of seen the fundraisings efforts of the Sunderland Fans to raise money to get him to America for treatment, unfortunately last week his family were told the heartbreaking news that the cancer had returned and he may only have a few months left.
So tonight Sunderland made him the mascot against Chelsea and before the game he went on to the pitch with the players.
Diego Costa was superb with him, he took him into the 18yd box, had a knock about with him and then got Bradley to take a few penalties against Courtois, he scored them all, twice sending Courtois the wrong way &#62979;
Hats off to Chelsea, his little face was beaming when he left the pitch.
We get enough slagging of each others teams, nice to be able to post a positive.
		
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It's nice to be on the positive side of a story for once, especially if it involves everybody's favourite pantomime villain, thanks for posting mate, although I thought it was Begovic in goal for the penalty unless the cheeky little tyke did both of them


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 15, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			It's nice to be on the positive side of a story for once, especially if it involves everybody's favourite pantomime villain, thanks for posting mate, although I thought it was Begovic in goal for the penalty unless the cheeky little tyke did both of them 

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Your keepers all look the same&#128515;
Campaign started on social media for one of his goal's to be included in MOTD's Goal of The Month for December and some of your players are pushing it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 15, 2016)

https://youtu.be/2PHwivaCx1g


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 15, 2016)

The simple answer would seem (in my simple mind) to be to stop this "protection" of the yellow card where it can't be changed to a red as it's deemed to have been dealt with at the time.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 15, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



https://youtu.be/2PHwivaCx1g

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"Bradley, come & say Hello to our visitors from Chelsea"

"NO!!"

:rofl:  Brilliant.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 15, 2016)

Yellow cards rescinded in Scotland after they were given for diving 

https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCSport/status/809430929672466432


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## ger147 (Dec 15, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yellow cards rescinded in Scotland after they were given for diving 

https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCSport/status/809430929672466432

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We also hand out 2 game bans for players who DO dive but it is not spotted by the ref or where the ref is fooled by the dive as I posted above.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 15, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			"Bradley, come & say Hello to our visitors from Chelsea"

"NO!!"

:rofl:  Brilliant.
		
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How brilliant is that video? Think you are having a bad, day? Watch that. Great little kid, cracking parents.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 15, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The simple answer would seem (in my simple mind) to be to stop this "protection" of the yellow card where it can't be changed to a red as it's deemed to have been dealt with at the time.
		
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Totally agree, but I think UEFA or FIFA insist upon it being "dealt with", so not sure if the FA can go their own way.

I think its a bit like golf. The rules of the game are inviolate, but you can introduce some local rules, which you feel are more relevant to your own course(league).


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## richart (Dec 15, 2016)

I see Man Utd are charging us Â£45 for tickets for the FA Cup tie. It seems the maximum Â£30 for away fans doesn't cover the Cup. Reading are going to subsidise supporters so we will only pay Â£30. Well done to the Club, but boooooooooo to Utd. 

Arsenal only charged us Â£10 for the EFL Cup, so not all Premier League clubs are money grabbers.:thup:


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## Papas1982 (Dec 15, 2016)

richart said:



			I see Man Utd are charging us Â£45 for tickets for the FA Cup tie. It seems the maximum Â£30 for away fans doesn't cover the Cup. Reading are going to subsidise supporters so we will only pay Â£30. Well done to the Club, but boooooooooo to Utd. 

Arsenal only charged us Â£10 for the EFL Cup, so not all Premier League clubs are money grabbers.:thup:
		
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Aren't FA cup rules that the gate reciepts are shared? So technically charging fans more will help your club out?

if you were to get through and face Arsenal in the 4th I don't think you'd be so pleasantly suprised with ticket prices. EFL cup is Mickey Mouse to most fans and always cheaper.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 15, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			EFL cup is Mickey Mouse to most fans and always cheaper.
		
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Shush, your not supposed to say that when in your in the semis - thems the rules.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 15, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Shush, your not supposed to say that when in your in the semis - thems the rules.

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Haha!

sorry, EFL is Mickey Mouse to most fans once they're knocked out off it.......


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 15, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Haha!

sorry, EFL is Mickey Mouse to most fans once they're knocked out off it.......
		
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Quick learner.:thup:


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## sawtooth (Dec 15, 2016)

Fish said:



			I think the blue card should be a minimum yellow as the ref or linesman has seen an offence that would at the very least warrant it but it would carry the ability for it to be reviewed and upgraded to a red. 

A yellow still stands with no review required and a blue for an offence that warranted a yellow but the official couldn't determine the intent or anything else that went on unseen.  This I believe would then not let the refs bottle it throwing blues about as they still have to commit to a yellow in the normal way.
		
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Why not orange? I can't stand blue.


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## pbrown7582 (Dec 16, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Aren't FA cup rules that the gate reciepts are shared? So technically charging fans more will help your club out?

 EFL cup is Mickey Mouse to most fans and always cheaper.
		
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Not to us United have been charging full price for all EFL cup matches and are doing the same for the semi. Its the Europa league which we get a 25% reduction for.

I do think that they charge away fans Â£5 to much per ticket as we price the tickets at non members prices,


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## Papas1982 (Dec 16, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			Not to us United have been charging full price for all EFL cup matches and are doing the same for the semi. Its the Europa league which we get a 25% reduction for.

I do think that they charge away fans Â£5 to much per ticket as we price the tickets at non members prices,
		
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That's likely a downside to your size. Most other teams struggle to get 10k inside their ground for efl. You seem to have higher figures, so i guess supply and demand dictates they can charge a little more.


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## pbrown7582 (Dec 16, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			That's likely a downside to your size. Most other teams struggle to get 10k inside their ground for efl. You seem to have higher figures, so i guess supply and demand dictates they can charge a little more.
		
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and an automatic cup scheme which means if you opt out of any match EFL or EL you cant apply for away matches, semi finals or finals.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 17, 2016)

I see the ref has spoilt the Stoke vs Leicester game by sending Vardy off and now 2-0 down booking galore for the Foxes.

Never a red, football is getting as soft as melting snow


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 17, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			I see the ref has spoilt the Stoke vs Leicester game by sending Vardy off and now 2-0 down booking galore for the Foxes.

Never a red, football is getting as soft as melting snow
		
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I've not seen it but if it is as I've heard described, it would seem that Vardy may have suffered for the incompetence of the officials that missed the Marcus Rojo red cards.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 17, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			I've not seen it but if it is as I've heard described, it would seem that Vardy may have suffered for the incompetence of the officials that missed the Marcus Rojo red cards.
		
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You could be right but refs need to use some common sense,if the ref had any sense he would have looked at it being Vardy and realised hes not that type of player,however never a red as long as I'm breathing.

Leicester are in a massive dog fight and it would be a travesty if the went down,last year they gave everyone so much pleasure and belief that the underdog could be successful.


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## Fish (Dec 17, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			You could be right but refs need to use some common sense,if the ref had any sense he would have looked at it being Vardy and realised hes not that type of player,however never a red as long as I'm breathing.

Leicester are in a massive dog fight and it would be a travesty if the went down,last year they gave everyone so much pleasure and belief that the underdog could be successful.
		
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I've not seen it but had the sports centre on at the time and Geoff stated he went in 2 footed, he may not have caught the other player but the rule as I understand it, is, if you leave the ground you no longer have control so it's reckless and a straight red!  If we start interpreting rules, which in golf we can't, even more inconsistencies will happen, so, I've not seen it but if he left the ground he knows the rules and the red was correct &#129300;


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## Fish (Dec 17, 2016)

Anyway, lets talk about another 3 points for the mighty blues &#128077;&#128079;&#128540;&#128526;


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## pokerjoke (Dec 17, 2016)

Fish said:



			I've not seen it but had the sports centre on at the time and Geoff stated he went in 2 footed, he may not have caught the other player but the rule as I understand it, is, if you leave the ground you no longer have control so it's reckless and a straight red!  If we start interpreting rules, which in golf we can't, even more inconsistencies will happen, so, I've not seen it but if he left the ground he knows the rules and the red was correct &#129300;
		
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No mate you will have to see it first.
He was off the ground because he was pushed,watch it and you might change your mind


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## pokerjoke (Dec 17, 2016)

Fish said:



			Anyway, lets talk about another 3 points for the mighty blues &#128077;&#128079;&#128540;&#128526;
		
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No thanks


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 17, 2016)

Fish said:



			I've not seen it but had the sports centre on at the time and Geoff stated he went in 2 footed, he may not have caught the other player but the rule as I understand it, is, if you leave the ground you no longer have control so it's reckless and a straight red!  If we start interpreting rules, which in golf we can't, even more inconsistencies will happen, so, I've not seen it but if he left the ground he knows the rules and the red was correct &#27138;
		
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pokerjoke said:



			No mate you will have to see it first.
He was off the ground because he was pushed,watch it and you might change your mind
		
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Jeff also said that Ranieri had to be restrained from going for the referee at half time which tends to suggest to me that the referee got it wrong; Claudio is one of the better ones for accepting decisions against him if they are correct.


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## anotherdouble (Dec 17, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			I've not seen it but if it is as I've heard described, it would seem that Vardy may have suffered for the incompetence of the officials that missed the Marcus Rojo red cards.
		
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Same ref I think as the 2nd Rojo incident


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 17, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			Same ref I think as the 2nd Rojo incident
		
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Ah, squaring it up thenâ€¦â€¦â€¦..


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## anotherdouble (Dec 17, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Ah, squaring it up thenâ€¦â€¦â€¦.. 

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That most probably the correct answer


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## fundy (Dec 17, 2016)

Fish said:



			Anyway, lets talk about another 3 points for the mighty blues &#128077;&#128079;&#128540;&#128526;
		
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nice to see Costa and Kante fancied a few extra days off at xmas too


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## Fish (Dec 17, 2016)

fundy said:



			nice to see Costa and Kante fancied a few extra days off at xmas too 

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Costa will only miss Bournemouth I think, best get it out the way, when your sitting on that it's inevitable it's coming, so it's all about the timing &#128521;


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 17, 2016)

Missed all the football but 5 Live saying the Vardy red card was harsh. Apparently the normally calm and placid Ranieiri got after the ref at half time. Will make interesting viewing tonight


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 17, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			No mate you will have to see it first.
He was off the ground because he was pushed,watch it and you might change your mind
		
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Just watched it Tony and to be honest I don't think he gave the Ref any choice, he's battling for the ball with Glen Johnson and loses his balance while he's in the air both feet of the ground he lunges to get the ball and catches the defender, certainly not a foul by Johnson on Vardy and certainly no intent to harm the defender by Vardy, but he does tackle with both feet in the air, from the Refs angle he's got both feet off the ground when the contact is made and once again questions would've asked whatever decision he made, the Stoke players certainly made a fuss.


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## ger147 (Dec 17, 2016)

Fish said:



			Costa will only miss Bournemouth I think, best get it out the way, when your sitting on that it's inevitable it's coming, so it's all about the timing &#128521;
		
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If he had lasted till 31st Dec his yellow cards count gets reset, wouldn't have carried over into 2017.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Just watched it Tony and to be honest I don't think he gave the Ref any choice, he's battling for the ball with Glen Johnson and loses his balance while he's in the air both feet of the ground he lunges to get the ball and catches the defender, certainly not a foul by Johnson on Vardy and certainly no intent to harm the defender by Vardy, but he does tackle with both feet in the air, from the Refs angle he's got both feet off the ground when the contact is made and once again questions would've asked whatever decision he made, the Stoke players certainly made a fuss.
		
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Ive just seen it and I thought it was harsh.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 17, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Just watched it Tony and to be honest I don't think he gave the Ref any choice, he's battling for the ball with Glen Johnson and loses his balance while he's in the air both feet of the ground he lunges to get the ball and catches the defender, certainly not a foul by Johnson on Vardy and certainly no intent to harm the defender by Vardy, but he does tackle with both feet in the air, from the Refs angle he's got both feet off the ground when the contact is made and once again questions would've asked whatever decision he made, the Stoke players certainly made a fuss.
		
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Got to disagree Paul.  Yes he was off his feet, not through choice but because Glen Johnson "helps" him off his feet.  The legs aren't extended, the studs aren't showing, there is basically no comparison with the Rojo incident that he got wrong, but I suspect he felt the pressure from that and consequently needed to send someone off to prove a point.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 17, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Got to disagree Paul.  Yes he was off his feet, not through choice but because Glen Johnson "helps" him off his feet.  The legs aren't extended, the studs aren't showing, there is basically no comparison with the Rojo incident that he got wrong, but I suspect he felt the pressure from that and consequently needed to send someone off to prove a point.
		
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Possibly felt pressure, but the Stoke players certainly didn't help.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 17, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Ive just seen it and I thought it was harsh.
		
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I wouldn't be happy if it happened to one of ours.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I wouldn't be happy if it happened to one of ours.
		
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With Mike Dean in charge on Monday I wouldn't be surprised, even though he's a Blue.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 18, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Possibly felt pressure, but *the Stoke players certainly didn't help*.
		
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Wouldn't disagree with that, although unfortunately that's a relatively modern trend of which all teams are guilty as far as I can see.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2016)

Good finish from Sterling then.  

Arsenal have been sloppy this 2nd half, I wonder if tiredness is kicking in....


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## fundy (Dec 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Good finish from Sterling then.  

Arsenal have been sloppy this 2nd half, I wonder if tiredness is kicking in....
		
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nah just a pathetically weak centre midfield pairing and an over reliance on 4 or 5 players to carry the rest, pretty predictable whats going on (at least it is to anyone whos watched the last 10 years)


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## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2016)

fundy said:



			nah just a pathetically weak centre midfield pairing and an over reliance on 4 or 5 players to carry the rest, pretty predictable whats going on (at least it is to anyone whos watched the last 10 years)
		
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I agree. I just  hope sawtooth doesn't read this


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## Paperboy (Dec 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I agree. I just  hope sawtooth doesn't read this 

Click to expand...

Or Freddie, in Wenger they trust &#128077;&#127995;


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 18, 2016)

And every other team keeps hoping they continue to trust him :thup:. Same old, same old.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2016)

Situation normal then 

Can see how deflated Sanchez looked on his haunches , he knows he won't win the top titles with Arsenal 

Why didn't Ozil play today ? - injured or suspended ? 

Pretty big win for City


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## fundy (Dec 18, 2016)

same deficiencies, and its not as if we hadnt had a recent reminder of it at goodison park midweek. no fight, no leaders, too vulnerable through the middle and too reliant on a handful of individuals, hey but what do i know


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## anotherdouble (Dec 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I agree. I just  hope sawtooth doesn't read this 

Click to expand...

He will just say they played well, solid performance, bit unlucky and nothing to worry about. The club earned a few bob and at least with 2 away games our pitch was protected and didn't have to use any leccy so all good in the world of Arsene


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## anotherdouble (Dec 18, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Situation normal then 

Can see how deflated Sanchez looked on his haunches , he knows he won't win the top titles with Arsenal 

Why didn't Ozil play today ? - injured or suspended ? 

Pretty big win for City
		
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Froggy eyes was playing or was that a little bit of sarcasm as he went missing yet again


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## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Situation normal then 

Can see how deflated Sanchez looked on his haunches , he knows he won't win the top titles with Arsenal 
*
Why didn't Ozil play today ? - injured or suspended ? 
*
Pretty big win for City
		
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:rofl:


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## pokerjoke (Dec 18, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Situation normal then 

Can see how deflated Sanchez looked on his haunches , he knows he won't win the top titles with Arsenal 

Why didn't Ozil play today ? - injured or suspended ? 

Pretty big win for City
		
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Unfortunately for Arsenal Sanchez took a knock and really should have come off early in the 2nd half.

Ozil didn't play today his useless twin brother did.

Good win for City and the top 4 still pulling clear:rofl:

Utd well in the top 4 by the new year and Liverpool dropping out[ok pretty predictable response but certainly a big possibility.


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## davemc1 (Dec 18, 2016)

Whats the situation with the ox? Subbed 13 mins after coming on. 5live commentary reckon he wasnt injured....


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## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2016)

Wenger blames everyone else than himself.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Whats the situation with the ox? Subbed 13 mins after coming on. 5live commentary reckon he wasnt injured....
		
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He pulled up iirc.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 18, 2016)

Top six looking pretty established and chelsea looking in good form. Think they'll be comfotable top four as will city.

But the other 4 could easily finish 3-6 with all of them looking likely to have good and bad runs.

Glad to win the mini derby today. Hopefully Jay can stay healthy as he is our best bet for goals this season. Need a new striker sharpish!


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## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			He will just say they played well, solid performance, bit unlucky and nothing to worry about. The club earned a few bob and at least with 2 away games our pitch was protected and didn't have to use any leccy so all good in the world of Arsene
		
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:rofl: :rofl:


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## garyinderry (Dec 18, 2016)

Wenger must have passed out the self destruct buttons at half time as everyone was furiously tapping away on them in that second half.  

**** scared to move up the pitch and two silly goals conceeded. 

TisSbollocks


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			Froggy eyes was playing or was that a little bit of sarcasm as he went missing yet again
		
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The best players in the world even when struggling at the very least put the effort into it - Ozil just wandered around that pitch today not caring not working hard , same with a number of players on that pitch - almost feel sorry for Sanchez who shows the desire and heart needed. A lot in that team could learn from him


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 18, 2016)

Very poor week for Arsenal. Top four becoming settled but on current form hard to see beyond Chelsea.


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## anotherdouble (Dec 18, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Very poor week for Arsenal. Top four becoming settled but on current form hard to see beyond Chelsea.
		
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Hate to disagree with you buddy but I think the top 4 is far from being settled, with Arsenal losing the last 2 and Tottenham winning, that only puts Spurs 1pt behind in 5th


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## pokerjoke (Dec 18, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Very poor week for Arsenal. Top four becoming settled but on current form hard to see beyond Chelsea.
		
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anotherdouble said:



			Hate to disagree with you buddy but I think the top 4 is far from being settled, with Arsenal losing the last 2 and Tottenham winning, that only puts Spurs 1pt behind in 5th
		
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Me also but these are the type of stupid posts we have to put up with.

Yes Homer a dig but your giving me the ammo

Can anyone honestly[that knows football]look at the table tonight and tell me its a 4 team race for the top 4.

Unbelievable Jeff


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 18, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			Hate to disagree with you buddy but I think the top 4 is far from being settled, with Arsenal losing the last 2 and Tottenham winning, that only puts Spurs 1pt behind in 5th
		
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Fair point although their consistency and a big game on 4th January against Chelsea are a worry. If they can string some results together then of course they break into the top four


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## Fish (Dec 18, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			Hate to disagree with you buddy but I think the top 4 is far from being settled, with Arsenal losing the last 2 and Tottenham winning, that only puts Spurs 1pt behind in 5th
		
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I agree, and the only thing that could keep manure out of breaking into any european places could be their goal difference, it's massively lacking compared to everyone else above them and could be become a key factor.

Huge game now for Liverpool tomorrow night, Everton will want to climb 2 places and try to keep in touch with everyone above and L'pool obviously want to get back to 2nd place and put some room between Spurs & United, an Everton win or a draw will do for me..

The January window is going to be key I think otherwise some which are already a bit thin on the ground already are going to suffer more and that pack underneath us will keep shuffling about..


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 18, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Me also but these are the type of stupid posts we have to put up with.

Yes Homer a dig but your giving me the ammo

Can anyone honestly[that knows football]look at the table tonight and tell me its a 4 team race for the top 4.

Unbelievable Jeff
		
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Not just him Tony, someone else made a statement about a little gap starting to form between the top 3 and it maybe a sign of the season ahead back in November :rofl: :rofl:


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## Tashyboy (Dec 18, 2016)

It was an odd game to go to, took bro in law as he is an arsenal fan. After five mins it was a case of oh dear here we go again. Then put in a performance similar to the Barcelona game and parts of Chelsea game. It really did look a nervy first twenty mins. Once more City not able to hit the target with chances. Don't know what Pep said at half time, but al bet the swear box is a bit fuller. The pass from De Bryune to sterling was worth the admission fee alone. Asked bro in law what's your thoughts on the Arsenal. The swear box is now full.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 18, 2016)

Saw this posted elsewhere about Arsenal;

Don't tell me Chelsea's improvement is about money - it's all about management.  Just like Arsenal, Chelsea have one world class player (Sanchez/Hazard) and one just slightly below that (Ozil/Costa).  Beyond that there is no difference in quality.  Arguably Arsenal have the deeper squad.  Yet look at how little time it has taken Conte to make an impact at Chelsea.  He hasn't done that by throwing money at the squad - he has done it by coaching them, motivating them and introducing a system that works.

The player they did sign in the summer, Kante, is the type of player we have been crying out for since the invincibles.  Whatever qualities Xhaka may have, he is not a top-drawer defensive midfielder.  Nor is Coquelin.  As per usual, wenger showed no instinct for competing for a player we really needed.

Will the last Wenger supporter saying "Be careful what you wish for" please leave the building.  The man is a busted flush & has been for years.


Discuss.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2016)




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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Saw this posted elsewhere about Arsenal;

Don't tell me Chelsea's improvement is about money - it's all about management.  Just like Arsenal, Chelsea have one world class player (Sanchez/Hazard) and one just slightly below that (Ozil/Costa).  Beyond that there is no difference in quality.  Arguably Arsenal have the deeper squad.  Yet look at how little time it has taken Conte to make an impact at Chelsea.  He hasn't done that by throwing money at the squad - he has done it by coaching them, motivating them and introducing a system that works.

The player they did sign in the summer, Kante, is the type of player we have been crying out for since the invincibles.  Whatever qualities Xhaka may have, he is not a top-drawer defensive midfielder.  Nor is Coquelin.  As per usual, wenger showed no instinct for competing for a player we really needed.

Will the last Wenger supporter saying "Be careful what you wish for" please leave the building.  The man is a busted flush & has been for years.


Discuss.
		
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Right now the biggest difference between the two is one player for me - Costa , at the moment is the most in form player and the system that Conte is giving him the chances to score the goals that have you up the table. He is prob the most in form striker in Europe. 

Kante has been superb also and it's spot on that he is exactly the player Arsenal have needed and he is prob as important to the team as Costa is - he protects that back three which prob the weak link in the team 

But Conte has shown that he can change things when they don't work - Wenger doesn't - it's the same old same old


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 18, 2016)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...edmanchester-city-tribute-injured-midfielder/


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## richart (Dec 18, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Saw this posted elsewhere about Arsenal;

Don't tell me Chelsea's improvement is about money - it's all about management.  Just like Arsenal, Chelsea have one world class player (Sanchez/Hazard) and one just slightly below that (Ozil/Costa).  Beyond that there is no difference in quality.  Arguably Arsenal have the deeper squad.  Yet look at how little time it has taken Conte to make an impact at Chelsea.  He hasn't done that by throwing money at the squad - he has done it by coaching them, motivating them and introducing a system that works.

The player they did sign in the summer, Kante, is the type of player we have been crying out for since the invincibles. 


Discuss.
		
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 Didn't he buy Alonso and Luiz ? Along with Kante, that must be approaching Â£90 million quids worth, so not the most accurate comment. 

I am sure you spotted that Richard.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 18, 2016)

richart said:



			Didn't he buy Alonso and Luiz ? Along with Kante, that must be approaching Â£90 million quids worth, so not the most accurate comment. 

I am sure you spotted that Richard.

Click to expand...

I think chelseas net spend was 109m this summer, arsenals was 87. So whilst there's a difference. I'd say it lends itself to the original point. Made by an Arsenal fan it would appear. 

Im sure they'll Finnish top 4 again and that'll appease many of their fans. But, nit all of them are happy with that anymore.


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## richart (Dec 18, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			I think chelseas net spend was 109m this summer, arsenals was 87. So whilst there's a difference. I'd say it lends itself to the original point. Made by an Arsenal fan it would appear. 

Im sure they'll Finnish top 4 again and that'll appease many of their fans. But, nit all of them are happy with that anymore.
		
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 The money has helped the improvement, because they have bought better players. Three of them are regulars, and they didn't make one signing as per article. (The player they did sign.)


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## Papas1982 (Dec 18, 2016)

richart said:



The money has helped the improvement, because they have bought better players. Three of them are regulars, and they didn't make one signing as per article. (The player they did sign.)
		
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My point was simply that the extra finance wasn't really the biggest difference maker as in the grand scheme of things, Chelsea spending an extra 10m wasn't significant. 

Arsenal also bought players who have had have had less impact than those chosen Conte. Hence agreeing with the point that He has been more important than Wenger.


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## fundy (Dec 18, 2016)

Im pretty critical of Wenger as an Arsenal fan, but for me the Chelsea squad at the start of the summer was a good bit stronger than Arsenals. Ultimately the Chelsea squad was the one that had won the league 12 months before (and then had a huff the following season all over a girl  ) compared to a squad that annually finishes 4th and then they purchased the one player every Arsenal fan was screaming would be the best possible signing for us! Bit early to be overly praising Conte for me (albeit I actually think he will be highly successful at Chelsea)


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## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2016)

Since Conte changed to a 3-4-3 it's fair to say both their performances and  results have improved.

Hazard is 10x the player he was last season but  the whole squad  has improved too. Their midtable finish was 30points way below there own capabilities with that squad.

Arsene blaming tiredness and 2 offside goals was embarrassing though.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Since Conte changed to a 3-4-3, after we battered them at the bridge, and he panicked into changing their formation. I can't blame them after such a schooling, fell on his feet though, its all worked out well.......luckily.
		
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A bit harsh, Stu.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 19, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Right now the biggest difference between the two is one player for me - Costa , at the moment is the most in form player and the system that Conte is giving him the chances to score the goals that have you up the table. He is prob the most in form striker in Europe. 

Kante has been superb also and it's spot on that he is exactly the player Arsenal have needed and he is prob as important to the team as Costa is - he protects that back three which prob the weak link in the team 

But Conte has shown that he can change things when they don't work - Wenger doesn't - it's the same old same old
		
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change that first sentance to Courtois (he is the man in the prem league)and I would agree with every word you have said. I keep nagging on about it but nobody in England knew about Conte, yet my Italian pals were raving about him.
Also did say was looking forward to this year re managers. Still think there are twists and turns this year but and its a massive but, Chelsea similar to Leicester last year have no champs league. I still laugh when Pep was asked if city could go all year unbeaten and his response was FFS. how things have changed over a few months and will continue to do so.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 19, 2016)

richart said:



The money has helped the improvement, because they have bought better players. Three of them are regulars, and they didn't make one signing as per article. (The player they did sign.)
		
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It's not an article, it's an observation made elsewhere on social media by an Arsenal fan.


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## freddielong (Dec 19, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			My point was simply that the extra finance wasn't really the biggest difference maker as in the grand scheme of things, Chelsea spending an extra 10m wasn't significant. 

Arsenal also bought players who have had have had less impact than those chosen Conte. Hence agreeing with the point that He has been more important than Wenger.
		
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Your looking at one season Chelsea have out spent Arsenal every season for the last decade.


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## richart (Dec 19, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			It's not an article, it's an observation made elsewhere on social media by an Arsenal fan.
		
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Do you think the comment is accurate ? Discuss.

For me Chelsea are the only Premiership team, that can go a goal up, and you expect them to be able to keep a clean sheet and see the game out. That has been helped by buying two defenders, and a defensive midfield player.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 19, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Your looking at one season Chelsea have out spent Arsenal every season for the last decade.
		
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I am comparing the difference from last year to this year. 

Your squad did did better than theirs last season and they have improved dramatically with only a small extra outlay. 

You can blame finance all you wish. But when you start spending 50m plus every season, which you've started doing, the managed has to carry the can if you don't improve. What's happened to all the youngsters Wenger apparently always brings through?


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## freddielong (Dec 19, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			I am comparing the difference from last year to this year. 

Your squad did did better than theirs last season and they have improved dramatically with only a small extra outlay. 

You can blame finance all you wish. But when you start spending 50m plus every season, which you've started doing, the managed has to carry the can if you don't improve. What's happened to all the youngsters Wenger apparently always brings through?
		
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Arsenal have played more academy players than any other premier league team this season what is your point 
And you cannot compare one almost equal spend against the compound effect of ten years of massive investment.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 19, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Arsenal have played more academy players than any other premier league team this season what is your point 
And you cannot compare one almost equal spend against the compound effect of ten years of massive investment.
		
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And how good are those academy players?

If you really are gonna continually hide behind the money then i hope you enjoy your lifelong support of teams playing well and a very small trophy cabinet.,


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## freddielong (Dec 19, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			And how good are those academy players?

If you really are gonna continually hide behind the money then i hope you enjoy your lifelong support of teams playing well and a very small trophy cabinet.,
		
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I was answering your comment I wasn't hiding behind anything , if I wanted to hide behind something it would be the three bad decisions that have ended with three goals against in the last two games.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2016)

freddielong said:



*Arsenal have played more academy players than any other premier league team this season *what is your point 
And you cannot compare one almost equal spend against the compound effect of ten years of massive investment.
		
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Really ? - Iwobi is one ?


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## Dan2501 (Dec 19, 2016)

Arsenal bottling it over the winter period again. Surprise, surprise. 4th place in the bag and another year of Wenger's mediocrity next season guaranteed.


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## fundy (Dec 19, 2016)

can someone please explain how Arsenal are bottling it yet other sides just arent good enough? What is the difference please (apart from its fashionable to call it bottling it)


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2016)

fundy said:



			can someone please explain how Arsenal are bottling it yet other sides just arent good enough? What is the difference please (apart from its fashionable to call it bottling it)
		
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Possibly some think that Arsenal are good enough to win it but seem to fall short ?

I believe when it comes down to the crunch they always seem to lacking - is that down to bottle , ability or mental strength ? More than likely a combination of all three


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 19, 2016)

I would not say Arsenal bottle the title, they just aren't good enough. They get more stick than other teams about this because they just don't seem to make progress. They maintain a consistently high level every year but they never look like going that next step up. They have the chance, they certainly have the money but every time they seem frightened to commit to a genuine challenge. A psychologist would suggest they are afraid to win as that might bring failure in coming second. They see 4th as an achievement and they can meet that. It's safe.

Chelsea, City, Utd, even Liverpool are all prepared to buy a big player or two to try and win the title. Wenger keeps talking about value for money. Not everyone can win but can people say Arsenal have pushed themselves to win? Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Utd all can and even though they are having mixed success they are at least trying and not aiming to stand still.


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## anotherdouble (Dec 19, 2016)

freddielong said:



			I was answering your comment I wasn't hiding behind anything , if I wanted to hide behind something it would be the three bad decisions that have ended with three goals against in the last two games.
		
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What 3 bad decisions. A corner that the pundits needed extra slow slow motion to see who it came off last. Hardly a bad decision in real speed. An off side decision that was measured at 1.3 inches. Hardly a bad decision in real time and I take it the 3 was sterlings goal. No interference as the rules state and no Arsenal players holding hands with their arms up in the air(as is the norm) at the time complaining of offside. So again no bad decision


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## anotherdouble (Dec 19, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Possibly some think that Arsenal are good enough to win it but seem to fall short ?

I believe when it comes down to the crunch they always seem to lacking - is that down to bottle , ability or mental strength ? More than likely a combination of all three
		
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Wouldn't say ability Phil. I think this Arsenal squad has ability in spades. More mental aptitude for me or a lack of toughness in the management. I constantly hear ex players saying that Wenger is not the sought to issue the hairdryer treatment. Perhaps that's what his little cherubs need


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			Wouldn't say ability Phil. I think this Arsenal squad has ability in spades. More mental aptitude for me or a lack of toughness in the management. I constantly hear ex players saying that Wenger is not the sought to issue the hairdryer treatment. Perhaps that's what his little cherubs need
		
Click to expand...

I think they have ability in certain areas but lack in some crucial areas - a strong DM for example - they have Coqulein , spent money on Eleney and Xhaka and all don't seem to be up the job. For the same money as Xhaka they could have had Kante and taken a massive step towards a realistic title shout. Plus they are a top striker short imo


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## freddielong (Dec 19, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			What 3 bad decisions. A corner that the pundits needed extra slow slow motion to see who it came off last. Hardly a bad decision in real speed. An off side decision that was measured at 1.3 inches. Hardly a bad decision in real time and I take it the 3 was sterlings goal. No interference as the rules state and no Arsenal players holding hands with their arms up in the air(as is the norm) at the time complaining of offside. So again no bad decision
		
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You have just admitted they were wrong so wrong, wrong is wrong isn't it, in the first half similar to the Sane where he was offside Monreal was through and squared to Iwobi it was called offside, Arsenal do not get the benefit of the doubt other teams get


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2016)

I hope sawtooth is alright.

Anyway enough of this Arsenal  rubbish, its all about the Klopp express tonight:whoo:


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 19, 2016)

freddielong said:



			You have just admitted they were wrong so wrong, wrong is wrong isn't it, in the first half similar to the Sane where he was offside Monreal was through and squared to Iwobi it was called offside, Arsenal do not get the benefit of the doubt other teams get
		
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Yeah! It's all a conspiracy against Arsenal.

Get real!  

The only conspiracy was on the part of the players who "downed tools" at half-time and I don't think for one minute that Arsene instructed them to do that. I agree with Harry Redknapp, after that performance some of them need to take a long, hard look at themselves.

And BTW under the current offside rule Sterling's goal was not offside.


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## sawtooth (Dec 19, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I hope sawtooth is alright.

Anyway enough of this Arsenal  rubbish, its all about the Klopp express tonight:whoo:
		
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ha ha I'm alright Stuart I just have a self imposed 24hr ban on the forum after Arsenal lose. It gives me a chance to reflect and come to terms with the result.

Less chance of saying things that I might regret this way. :thup:

Glad to see that sensible football people haven't written off Arsenals chances on the back of 2 difficult away games.


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## fundy (Dec 19, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			ha ha I'm alright Stuart I just have a self imposed 24hr ban on the forum after Arsenal lose. It gives me a chance to reflect and come to terms with the result.

Less chance of saying things that I might regret this way. :thup:

Glad to see that sensible football people haven't written off Arsenals chances on the back of 2 difficult away games.

Click to expand...

Nope, sensible people have written them off based on the last 5 years+, the fact that key deficiencies havent been addressed and the fact that they are a distance away from being the best team in the league rather than knee jerk reactions to 1 or 2 games


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## pokerjoke (Dec 19, 2016)

fundy said:



			Nope, sensible people have written them off based on the last 5 years+, the fact that key deficiencies havent been addressed and the fact that they are a distance away from being the best team in the league rather than knee jerk reactions to 1 or 2 games
		
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That's Liverpool out of the title race as well then based on the last 10 years at least


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## pokerjoke (Dec 19, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I hope sawtooth is alright.

Anyway enough of this Arsenal  rubbish, its all about the Klopp express tonight:whoo:
		
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The nuts and bolts are being loosened as we speak.

If Liverpool win tonight and it would surprise me I might say the nuts and bolts are being tightened again and maybe a top 6 is possible:ears:


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			The nuts and bolts are being loosened as we speak.

If Liverpool win tonight and it would surprise me I might say the nuts and bolts are being tightened again and maybe a top 6 is possible:ears:
		
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No loose nuts tonight La, the red machine is well oiled and raring to go.

I just hope the ref doesn't spoil it.  

I'm off the match with my Lad now, toodle pip :ears:


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 19, 2016)

Gone for Liverpool to win 2-1. Got a feeling this is going to be feisty and just hope it's refereed sensibly


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## anotherdouble (Dec 19, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Gone for Liverpool to win 2-1. Got a feeling this is going to be feisty and just hope it's refereed sensibly
		
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With Mike Dean some would say that's impossible


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 19, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			With Mike Dean some would say that's impossible
		
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And I'd agree but hoping (against hope) he can be responsible and let it be played as a derby. He's surely experienced enough to know how it should be refereed. Question is, who would be the best ref on the PL panel to do it


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 19, 2016)

Come on Everton!


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## Tashyboy (Dec 19, 2016)

I see the FA is going to help former star players get onto a coaching coach to stop them going out of football. I am all for that, but Keith Curle is one. He's the one who when he was manager of Mansfield Town had 16 yr old trainees running around forest town welfare football pitch naked coz it was character building. Not to sure that's the kinds guy we need to be supporting.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 19, 2016)

Liverpool are being very rude. It's our ground, our ball, can we please play with it as well? We are just not in the game.


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## Kellfire (Dec 19, 2016)

Naughty one there from Barkley.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 19, 2016)

I would've accepted a red for Barkley there after seeing the replay.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 19, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Naughty one there from Barkley.
		
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Agree with that. Very lucky it wasn't red. Not sure what Coleman did to get booked but if it was for pushing then why didn't Lovren get one as well?


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 19, 2016)

Because Lovren had already had a yellow and the ref didn't have the bottle to see it through. Incidentally, I agree. Barkley should have seen red for that. Ankle breaker.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2016)

Poor late challenge and should have been a red


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## NWJocko (Dec 19, 2016)

Fairly uninspiring stuff all round and Liverpool badly missing Coutinho.

Barkleys tackle was very poor, didn't look as bad at first look, liner must have seen it though.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 19, 2016)

Should have been a definite red for Barkley but what a save from the Everton keeper as well. If any side looks like getting a winner it's the red side of town. Everton not at it in the second half


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2016)

Ref certainly doesn't want to send anyone off does he - Barkley kicking the ball away


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 19, 2016)

I think Barkley fancies having Xmas and New Year off the way he's going. Certainly trying to get himself sent off.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2016)

Yes. !!!!!!!!!!!!!! :whoo:


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 19, 2016)

How bad must Niasse be if he can't even get on the bench? Who sanctioned that move? We badly need a second striker to come on and help up front.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2016)

Idiots on the pitch and throwing flares -


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 19, 2016)

Gutted, We never came out for the 2nd half and only one team looked like scoring!


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 19, 2016)

What is it with Liverpool and flares? The idiots that do it will be picked up on cctv and banned. Muppets.

Everton got all they deserved tonight, diddly. Very sobering for Koeman methinks.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2016)

Well pretty shocking game but on the balance of play just about could say it's the right result - an ugly win which looked at one stage there was only going to be the Barkley challenge to talk about. That's another tackle that should be looked at and then upgraded to a red.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 19, 2016)

As with Rojo's two challenges however a yellow was given meaning that's the end of it.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 19, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What is it with Liverpool and flares? The idiots that do it will be picked up on cctv and banned. Muppets.

Everton got all they deserved tonight, diddly. Very sobering for Koeman methinks.
		
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Very poor from Liverpool and the flares and hope the club take action. An Everton of two halves and they edged the first half but were totally second best for most of the second. Scrappy goal, in a scrappy game. Two wins and five defeats in the last ten games for Everton. Do their fans think a) Koeman is the right man and b) is he running out of time?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 19, 2016)

That's pretty pathetic from the reporter trying to get Henderson to slate Barkley and keep pushing him about the tackle and the stand off later but fair play from Henderson saying it's done and dusted now , hands shaken


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 19, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Very poor from Liverpool and the flares and hope the club take action. An Everton of two halves and they edged the first half but were totally second best for most of the second. Scrappy goal, in a scrappy game. Two wins and five defeats in the last ten games for Everton. Do their fans think a) Koeman is the right man and b) is he running out of time?
		
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You post some utter rubbish! It's a flare, fans are passionate, good on them!


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 19, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			With Mike Dean some would say that's impossible
		
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He shouldnt be doing a Merseyside derby, or reffing any of our teams.


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## davemc1 (Dec 19, 2016)

Keomans interview :rofl: forget ross` ankle breaker, it was the reaction of lovren that was the real crime in a game we clearly were unlucky to lose. 

And we're the disillusioned ones


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 19, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Keomans interview :rofl: forget ross` ankle breaker, it was the reaction of lovren that was the real crime in a game we clearly were unlucky to lose. 

And we're the disillusioned ones 

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That's not what he said he agreed it could of easily been a red, but if Coleman gets booked then so should Lovren,


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## davemc1 (Dec 19, 2016)

I was paraphrasing, but imo that was exactly his sentiment

Anyway, bad game to watch. Was disappointed with lallana, I thought he could of ran the show tonight. Gini didnt have a great game either. Another day firmino could of had 2 or 3, Mane is a cracker, an happy for sturrigde to be back contributing


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2016)

Went to the game it was very poor 
Everton long ball did not work no plan B.
liverpool no final ball very poor crosses , gave ball away to much.
only Mike Dean and the linesman who never saw Barkleys tackle as red. shocker?..
pit amazes me you can get booked for hitting someone with your hankie but only get a yellow for that.
he also kicked the ball away ref bottled it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 19, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			I was paraphrasing, but imo that was exactly his sentiment
		
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After he'd agreed Barkley was lucky and he was correct, we both should've down to 10.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			That's not what he said he agreed it could of easily been a red, but if Coleman gets booked then so should Lovren,
		
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Lovren  was involved with original incident I was there the linesman told the ref that Coleman ran 50 yds to get involved that's why he booked him.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 19, 2016)

clubchamp98 said:



			Lovren  was involved with original incident I was there the linesman told the ref that Coleman ran 50 yds to get involved that's why he booked him.
		
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Both raised the hands and Lovren was the first one to reach Barkley and started all the other players joining in, not defending Coleman at all, but Lovren instigated it and imo should've got a yellow as well.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2016)

Last minute winners at Woodison are boss.

Merry Christmas Everton :whoo::whoo:


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 19, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Both raised the hands and Lovren was the first one to reach Barkley and started all the other players joining in, not defending Coleman at all, but Lovren instigated it and imo should've got a yellow as well.
		
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I think he did what he did for Barkley's kicking the ball away, he wanted to keep 11 on the pitch by not giving another yellow for a daft thing.

Fair point that if he books Coleman for getting involved, he should also book Lovren, but only the Barkley challenge should have seen someone DEFINITELY sent off.

Probably our worst performance of the season, but glad for a late winner in a derby and a clean sheet.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 19, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Last minute winners at Woodison are boss.

Merry Christmas Everton :whoo::whoo:
		
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Cheers Stu, I hope you next sh1t is a hedgehog :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Both raised the hands and Lovren was the first one to reach Barkley and started all the other players joining in, not defending Coleman at all, but Lovren instigated it and imo should've got a yellow as well.
		
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If Coleman didn't stick his oar in running  30+ yards then it wouldn't have got  to where it did. Ive just seen the  Barkley tackle and he is a very lucky boy. In real time it looked bad but the replay was worse.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 19, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think he did what he did for Barkley's kicking the ball away, he wanted to keep 11 on the pitch by not giving another yellow for a daft thing.

Fair point that if he books Coleman for getting involved, he should also book Lovren, but only the Barkley challenge should have seen someone DEFINITELY sent off.

Probably our worst performance of the season, but glad for a late winner in a derby and a clean sheet.
		
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The only person defending Barkley was Henderson and credit to him because it was a shocker and Barkley should of seen red, how the linesman can watch Coleman and not see how bad that tackle was is ridiculous.
Got more and more worried as the 2nd half went on, you's were much the better team.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 19, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			If Coleman didn't stick his oar in running  30+ yards then it wouldn't have got  to where it did. Ive just seen the  Barkley tackle and he is a very lucky boy. In real time it looked bad but the replay was worse.
		
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Lovren started the players sticking their oar in.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Both raised the hands and Lovren was the first one to reach Barkley and started all the other players joining in, not defending Coleman at all, but Lovren instigated it and imo should've got a yellow as well.
		
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refs are very inconsistent some book you some don't it needs sorting out .
they need to be more consistent but players don't help bunch of tarts.
all this rolling on the ground when they have been hit by a passing fly.
they need to change the rule that says "if you get booked that's it you can't be sanctioned anymore ,,why not?"
use the technology to stop the cheats this will make refs job a bit easier.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Cheers Stu, I hope you next sh1t is a hedgehog :rofl:
		
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Cheers Pablo :ears: 

The park end where in fine voice tonight. Heysel,always the victim  etc got a very good airing from a good 3rd of the stand. Classy.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Lovren started the players sticking their oar in.
		
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Lovren  was right to have a go, it was a bad tackle. Lovren's 1st booking was harsh too.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 19, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Cheers Pablo :ears: 

The park end where in fine voice tonight. Heysel,always the victim  etc got a very good airing from a good 3rd of the stand. Classy.
		
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Unfortunately mate you'll never get rid of the ignorant scum fans, it disgusts me, apologies on behalf of the decent fans.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 19, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Lovren  was right to have a go, it was a bad tackle. Lovren's 1st booking was harsh too.
		
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No he's not, that's like saying it's ok for all players to get involved to protect their own, let the Ref deal with it.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 19, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Lovren  was right to have a go, it was a bad tackle. Lovren's 1st booking was harsh too.
		
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Nar, Lovren's first booking was a deffo.

Knew what he was doing, we should do more of that, do the deliberate foul on the half way line, instead of on the edge of our own box. Chelsea behaviour.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 19, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Nar, Lovren's first booking was a deffo.

Knew what he was doing, we should do more of that, do the deliberate foul on the half way line, instead of on the edge of our own box. Chelsea behaviour. 

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I thought Firmino was a bit petulant at times tonight, hadn't noticed it before, was it frustration or does he have that side to him?


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 19, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I thought Firmino was a bit petulant at times tonight, hadn't noticed it before, was it frustration or does he have that side to him?
		
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I dont think so, generally, although he has been poor the last 3 games, so possibly that.

He was playing centrally up to a few games ago, and was great, but has been shifted onto the wing to play Origi centrally.

He always puts a shift in, and lets face it, you dont need shrinking violets in a derby game, do you.


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 19, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I thought Firmino was a bit petulant at times tonight, hadn't noticed it before, was it frustration or does he have that side to him?
		
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Firmmino worst player on the pitch first half.
not much better second half just one of those days 
every thing he tried didn't come off.
suprissed he lasted whole game what was Klop watching


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I dont think so, generally, although he has been poor the last 3 games, so possibly that.

He was playing centrally up to a few games ago, and was great, but has been shifted onto the wing to play Origi centrally.

He always puts a shift in, and lets face it, you dont need shrinking violets in a derby game, do you.
		
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Firmino looks like he's carrying a knock to my medical eye.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 19, 2016)

clubchamp98 said:



			Firmmino worst player on the pitch first half.
not much better second half just one of those days 
every thing he tried didn't come off.
suprissed he lasted whole game what was Klop watching
		
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Nah Origi had Dirk Kuyt's boots on tonight, his touch was shocking, couldn't control nothing and his chance in the 1st half summed him up. I'd have been happy to see him hooked at half time.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 19, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I dont think so, generally, although he has been poor the last 3 games, so possibly that.

He was playing centrally up to a few games ago, and was great, but has been shifted onto the wing to play Origi centrally.

He always puts a shift in, and lets face it, you dont need shrinking violets in a derby game, do you.
		
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That's why I was asking if it was frustrstion, was never going to be a free flowing football game, maybe just doesn't his style, with no Coutinho, he was the one I was more worried about, but Origi was the player I thought created the most trouble, initially pleased when him and Llalana were took off.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 19, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			That's why I was asking if it was frustrstion, was never going to be a free flowing football game, maybe just doesn't his style, with no Coutinho, he was the one I was more worried about, but Origi was the player I thought created the most trouble, initially pleased when him and Llalana were took off.
		
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Right Paul, you've done your 15 posts after getting beat in a derby, so you can go to bed now.

Trying too hard......:whoo:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 19, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Right Paul, you've done your 15 posts after getting beat in a derby, so you can go to bed now.

Trying too hard......:whoo:
		
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Kiss me hoop :rofl: no sleep tonight, awake all night crying into pillow!


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## One Planer (Dec 19, 2016)

Never mind the football. 

What's going on with Firminos teeth?

Do they come with a dimmer switch?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 20, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Nah Origi had Dirk Kuyt's boots on tonight, his touch was shocking, couldn't control nothing and his chance in the 1st half summed him up. I'd have been happy to see him hooked at half time.
		
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Both Origi and Lallana had one of those games where the ball was like a hot potato , just wasn't working for them 

Mane was very good again as was Henderson , Gini was quietly effective just needs to find shooting boots , Sturridge and Can coming back was good 

Thought Lovern and Klavan coped very well with the balls thrown up to them and pretty much kept to them to one chance all night 

It was a scrappy game but a good win 

As for the incident with Lovren and Coleman - Lovren was there and got involved , Coleman ran 50 yards to get involved and piled into Lovren - maybe that's why he got the card but certainly not a card for their little pushing each other.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			You post some utter rubbish! It's a flare, fans are passionate, good on them!
		
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Crap. Flares are patently dangerous and have injured players and fans across Europe and are banned so why bring them into a ground to start with and then hurl one which could have injured stewards, fans or players. Stand by my statement. Very poor


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## Imurg (Dec 20, 2016)

No mention of Kloppy-Time yet then....?&#128513;&#128513;


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2016)

Imurg said:



			No mention of Kloppy-Time yet then....?&#128513;&#128513;
		
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It was about right to be fair, if anything the blue ref played an extra 2minutes. Everton's keeper used 4mins combined them the subs.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Both Origi and Lallana had one of those games where the ball was like a hot potato , just wasn't working for them 

Mane was very good again as was Henderson , Gini was quietly effective just needs to find shooting boots , Sturridge and Can coming back was good 

Thought Lovern and Klavan coped very well with the balls thrown up to them and pretty much kept to them to one chance all night 

It was a scrappy game but a good win 

*As for the incident with Lovren and Coleman - Lovren was there and got involved , Coleman ran 50 yards to get involved and piled into Lovren - maybe that's why he got the card but certainly not a card for their little pushing each other.*

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I've just watched it again and the only reason Coleman gets booked is because he came running in from 30 yards to get involved, the lino grassed him up. Barkley Barry lukaku, winaldjum Lovren were all pushing and shoving.


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## Doon frae Troon (Dec 20, 2016)

Toughest job of the night must have been the TV editor searching for the 'highlights'.
Pretty dour stuff.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Toughest job of the night must have been the TV editor searching for the 'highlights'.
Pretty dour stuff.
		
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Agreed, by there's no better way to beat that shower at goodison than a last minute winner :whoo:

MOTD'S  first bit of coverage was in the 22nd minute.


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## Fish (Dec 20, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Agreed, by there's no better way to beat that shower at goodison than a last minute winner :whoo:

MOTD'S  first bit of coverage was in the 22nd minute.
		
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and if that's all you can muster in a derby than those all around you have nothing to worry about, yes you carved out a 3 pointer and got your win, but in the grand scheme of things watching that dross poses no threat to the title unless everyone around you implodes :smirk:


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2016)

Fish said:



			and if that's all you can muster in a derby than those all around you have nothing to worry about, yes you carved out a 3 pointer and got your win, but in the grand scheme of things watching that dross poses no threat to the title unless everyone around you implodes :smirk:
		
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It's a very good job it's not the best we can muster then, and well you know it fishy:thup:


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## Hobbit (Dec 20, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Agreed, by there's no better way to beat that shower at goodison than a last minute winner :whoo:

MOTD'S  first bit of coverage was in the 22nd minute.
		
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A good 3pts, and not much else worth watching, or even talking about. A bit of handbags, which didn't amount to much more than venting testosterone. Winning ugly sometimes is the only thing you can do in a derby. I certainly wouldn't take any negatives from it for either side - derbies are like that...


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Two wins and five defeats in the last ten games for Everton. Do their fans think a) Koeman is the right man and b) is he running out of time?
		
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Yes and no. Too early, still using Martinez's players. I think last night will have taught him an awful lot and January could see some movement out as well as in.


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## Dan2501 (Dec 20, 2016)

Have to give Koeman time. They've been playing awfully recently, but thanks to our strong start we're still in the Top 10, we're doing better than we did last year. Investment has to be made in this team though, we just don't look good enough right now. 

Starting Enner Valencia was a strange one, he was absolutely awful again last night, I don't understand why we've brought him in. He was terrible at West Ham and he's been terrible for us. The midfield is lacking a spark too. Barkley has been dire this season, and was poor again last night. Need to bring someone in that can link up with Lukaku and provide some creativity. Can obviously tell Lukaku knows he's a 1 man band ATM, was trying to do it all himself last night as he just couldn't rely on his team-mates. Something needs to change and change quickly, but I'm sure Koeman knows that and will be lining up some big signings in January. Depay would be a great start and then we need another top CB, and a creative midfielder. Hopefully it won't be another frustrating Everton transfer window!


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2016)

The talk is Depay and Schneiderlein are pretty well sewn up. They would be good signings. We need a striker to help out Lukaku. 

If Spurs are really offering Â£25m for Barkley I would take it. Maybe he needs to move to progress. He is standing still, maybe even going backwards at the moment. I really like him but it is not happening for him. Maybe the deal could include Ericssen coming our way?

Agreed on Valencia. I'd like to see Delofeu get more game time as well. He can provide the crosses for Rom.


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## Fish (Dec 20, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The talk is Depay and Schneiderlein are pretty well sewn up. They would be good signings. We need a striker to help out Lukaku. 

If Spurs are really offering Â£25m for Barkley I would take it. Maybe he needs to move to progress. He is standing still, maybe even going backwards at the moment. I really like him but it is not happening for him. Maybe the deal could include Ericssen coming our way?

Agreed on Valencia. I'd like to see Delofeu get more game time as well. He can provide the crosses for Rom.
		
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Do you not think Barkley could move forward with some better quality around him and the club/team show a little more ambition, maybe he's frustrated with the current situation, there's no doubting his talent, but I don't think you'll see much of it if things stay the same at Everton.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2016)

Fish - I agree. We are playing in a way that isolates Lukaku and Barkley. Both of them are left on their own in their own section of the pitch. They both need more players in blue around them. It's a case of here's the ball, go and do something with it, some players may join you, they may not. I think he is getting disheartened at which point the level of his whole game drops, the ball bounces off him etc. I think he is a genuine talent, two footed, goes past players in a way that Gazza did and whilst I would love him to do it at Everton I want him to become the player we hop he can. That may not be with us and if so that is fine, as long as he does not follow Rooney to the Mancs as that is utterly unforgiveable, obviously .

I'd like to see the midfield step forward a few yards to support both Barkely and Lukaku higher up the pitch.


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## pbrown7582 (Dec 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			You post some utter rubbish! It's a flare, fans are passionate, good on them!
		
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no pyro no party......


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 20, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Never mind the football. 

What's going on with Firminos teeth?

Do they come with a dimmer switch?
		
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He looks like Ross in friends, when he left his teeth in the bleacher too long.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			He looks like Ross in friends, when he left his teeth in the bleacher too long.
		
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Great comparison :rofl:. He does look ridiculous.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 20, 2016)

Fish said:



			and if that's all you can muster in a derby than those all around you have nothing to worry about, yes you carved out a 3 pointer and got your win, but in the grand scheme of things watching that dross poses no threat to the title unless everyone around you implodes :smirk:
		
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A very long way to go and can't see how anything can be judged on a derby - didn't Chelsea get mullered in a Derby this year ?

We didn't play great , missing a couple of big players but still got a good three points - so winning when not setting the world alight , pretty good indicator for a team challenging in the Top 4


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 20, 2016)

A win is a win, 3 points is all the history books will show.
I thought it was good to see some of the more "flair" players showing some physical and mental strength, and restraint in general after that horror tackle from Barclay.


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## Fish (Dec 20, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A very long way to go and can't see how anything can be judged on a derby - didn't Chelsea get mullered in a Derby this year ?

We didn't play great , missing a couple of big players but still got a good three points - so winning when not setting the world alight , pretty good indicator for a team challenging in the Top 4
		
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Do you think all the foreign players really appreciate what a Derby is or stands for, or is it just another match, although a slightly higher profile one?

With that said, yes, we lost to Arsenal by 3 goals whilst a new manager was finding his team and formation, you don't have that excuse with Kliperty any more, however, since that match and using your terminology we then went on to _muller_ Leicester, Man Utd and Everton (by 5) and beating everyone else put in front of us to the reach the 11 matches we've won back to back to date  

I personally think we've seen the best of Liverpool already, I think teams now know you'll come out fast and press and huff & puff but as everyone has already seen, you run out of steam and teams come back at you, you can't finish anyone off or protect those early goals IMO, as such, even with players to come back, we've all seen your hand and just like Everton did in the first half, teams will play you at your own game, but where's your plan B, I personally don't think you have one?

Man Utd have now found their feet and I expect them to carry that on now, they traditionally step it up after Christmas but I still don't think they'll reach the top 4, but if they do, it will be at Liverpool's expense as I think those immediately below you have better strength in depth and will dip into the market in January and strengthen even more, I think you'll burn up, a bit like Boom & Bust but in football terminology.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 20, 2016)

Fish said:



			and if that's all you can muster in a derby than those all around you have nothing to worry about, yes you carved out a 3 pointer and got your win, but in the grand scheme of things watching that dross poses no threat to the title unless everyone around you implodes :smirk:
		
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If we would have took Arsenal's early season whacking of Chelsea as a pointer in a derby.......


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## Fish (Dec 20, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			If we would have took Arsenal's early season whacking of Chelsea as a pointer in a derby.......
		
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Your not supposed to post until midnight, get back in yer coffin' :smirk:


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 20, 2016)

Fish said:



			Your not supposed to post until midnight, get back in yer coffin' :smirk:
		
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I'm on the Horlicks in work.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2016)

Bunkermagnet said:



			A win is a win, 3 points is all the history books will show.
I thought it was good to see some of the more "flair" players showing some physical and mental strength, and restraint in general after that horror tackle from Barclay.
		
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:rofl: restrain :rofl: cos no Lpool player ever, ever, made a mis-timed tackle in a Derby.


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			:rofl: restrain :rofl: cos no Lpool player ever, ever, made a mis-timed tackle in a Derby.
		
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At what point did I excuse previous horrors? Those previous offenders weren't playing last night as far I was aware....


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2016)

Bunkermagnet said:



			At what point did I excuse previous horrors? Those previous offenders weren't playing last night as far I was aware....
		
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It was the restraint rubbish, even Pete agreed Lovren should've been booked, it was the lack of restraint from both sides that led to the handbags.


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## davemc1 (Dec 20, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The talk is Depay and Schneiderlein are pretty well sewn up. They would be good signings. We need a striker to help out Lukaku. 

If Spurs are really offering Â£25m for Barkley I would take it. Maybe he needs to move to progress. He is standing still, maybe even going backwards at the moment. I really like him but it is not happening for him. Maybe the deal could include Ericssen coming our way?

Agreed on Valencia. I'd like to see Delofeu get more game time as well. He can provide the crosses for Rom.
		
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Can't believe no-ones picked you up on this, Ericsson to everton? ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ 

Why would spurs give you their best player?

Why would he move from cl club to mid table obscurity?

Funny you blues


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2016)

Fish said:



			Do you think all the foreign players really appreciate what a Derby is or stands for, or is it just another match, although a slightly higher profile one?

With that said, yes, we lost to Arsenal by 3 goals whilst a new manager was finding his team and formation, you don't have that excuse with Kliperty any more, however, since that match and using your terminology we then went on to _muller_ Leicester, Man Utd and Everton (by 5) and beating everyone else put in front of us to the reach the 11 matches we've won back to back to date  

I personally think we've seen the best of Liverpool already, I think teams now know you'll come out fast and press and huff & puff but as everyone has already seen, you run out of steam and teams come back at you, you can't finish anyone off or protect those early goals IMO, as such, even with players to come back, we've all seen your hand and just like Everton did in the first half, teams will play you at your own game, but where's your plan B, I personally don't think you have one?

Man Utd have now found their feet and I expect them to carry that on now, they traditionally step it up after Christmas but I still don't think they'll reach the top 4, but if they do, it will be at Liverpool's expense as I think those immediately below you have better strength in depth and will dip into the market in January and strengthen even more, *I think* you'll burn up, a bit like Boom & Bust but in football terminology.
		
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More like " you want us to " 

We're a much fitter side than we were this time last season and we've got less games anda greater recovery period after games. 

We do lack quality in depth but I haven't seen any games this season were our fitness levels have caused us to drop points.

On a side note I hope all of those everton wives are OK this morning


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Can't believe no-ones picked you up on this, Ericsson to everton? &#62978;&#62978; 

Why would spurs give you their best player?

Why would he move from cl club to mid table obscurity?

Funny you blues
		
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If you don't ask you don't get. We lack a player like him so you can't blame me for wanting him on my wish list. Do I expect to get him, no, but sometimes a manager moves players on if a simple question is asked so why not? Spurs have a surplus of midfielders, always have had over the years so you never know. I remember Southampton fans on this forum scoffing asking why would Koeman move. It happened then, this could too (incidentally I have no evidence or rumour, he is just a player I like and would improve us)


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Can't believe no-ones picked you up on this, Ericsson to everton? &#128514;&#128514; 

Why would spurs give you their best player?

Why would he move from cl club to mid table obscurity?

Funny you blues
		
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It was noted and in the vault for future evidence when required :rofl:


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## garyinderry (Dec 20, 2016)

Some crying done about that tackle from Barkley.  Proper yellow card derby tackle. Bit late and looked sore as it caught henderson right on the ankle but for me that is part of the game. A rojo horror tackle it wasnt. 

Everton very slow to react for the goal. Mane is some player. You cant fail to be impressed with his energy.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 20, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If you don't ask you don't get. We lack a player like him so you can't blame me for wanting him on my wish list. Do I expect to get him, no, but sometimes a manager moves players on if a simple question is asked so why not? Spurs have a surplus of midfielders, always have had over the years so you never know. I remember Southampton fans on this forum scoffing asking why would Koeman move. It happened then, this could too (incidentally I have no evidence or rumour, he is just a player I like and would improve us)
		
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Wasn't that how Cantona from Leeds to Man U happened? I recall hearing something about the Leeds manager speaking to Ferguson about buying one of the Man United players. Ferguson said no but I'll buy Cantona if you'd sell him and the Leeds manager said ok.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			More like " you want us to " 

We're a much fitter side than we were this time last season and we've got less games anda greater recovery period after games. 

We do lack quality in depth but I haven't seen any games this season were our fitness levels have caused us to drop points.

On a side note I hope all of those everton wives are OK this morning 

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Day gets worse mate, at a Hospital appt in Newcastle, comes out the toilet, some bloke is coming in and like a gentleman I held the door and let him go first, looks at him.......Rafa Benitez! Newcastle players and Staff visiting the kids!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Can't believe no-ones picked you up on this, Ericsson to everton? &#128514;&#128514; 

Why would spurs give you their best player?

Why would he move from cl club to mid table obscurity?

Funny you blues
		
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Why not, you've managed to sign a few players as a mid-table team over the last few seasons :whoo:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2016)

Was thinking about the match last night and regardless off the performances of both teams, the result was disastrous and brilliant depending on who you support, so, forgetting all the great games you've seen, what was the worst from a results point of view.
I have 2, being there when LPool beat us 5-0 at Goodison and Rush got 4, closely followed by Utd beating us 6-2 on a Boxing Day again at Goodison. never felt so low going home from a game.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2016)

85 Cup Final. Best Everton team of my lifetime, on for a treble. Didn't play well in the final, Whiteside scores a belter. Lots of very nasty Utd fans off their faces with drink, unpleasant atmosphere. Long drive home back to the NW. Horrible feeling.

Worst derby feeling, can't remember the year but I can still see Steve McMahon drilling a shot into the top corner at Goodison to win a match. I was stood in the Gwladys Street and I had a perfect view. It was a cracking match, not like last night, and they were the days when we would win every so often .


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Wasn't that how Cantona from Leeds to Man U happened? I recall hearing something about the Leeds manager speaking to Ferguson about buying one of the Man United players. Ferguson said no but I'll buy Cantona if you'd sell him and the Leeds manager said ok.
		
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I think Andy Cole from Newcastle to Man Utd was a similar type of story. Fergie had asked before and Keegan had said no. This time he said yes but I don't think Fergie expected it. If you don't ask you don't get.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 20, 2016)

Fish said:



			Do you think all the foreign players really appreciate what a Derby is or stands for, or is it just another match, although a slightly higher profile one?
		
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I think the foreign players fully appreciate what the Derby means - only have to see the reaction from them when the whistle went and staying behind to celebrate with the fans - I think you would have to be made of stone to not get the Derby especially in Liverpool



			With that said, yes, we lost to Arsenal by 3 goals whilst a new manager was finding his team and formation, you don't have that excuse with Kliperty any more, however, since that match and using your terminology we then went on to _muller_ Leicester, Man Utd and Everton (by 5) and beating everyone else put in front of us to the reach the 11 matches we've won back to back to date 

Click to expand...

Why do we need an excuse ? Each team so far has had a little run going in the league , and each one has come to halt with a couple of stumbling games -  Chelsea started poorly with some big defeats and now on their run , I have no doubt they will have the same sort of stumble that Arsenal , Liverpool and City have had - especially when they appear to be reliant on one goalscorer



			I personally think we've seen the best of Liverpool already, I think teams now know you'll come out fast and press and huff & puff but as everyone has already seen, you run out of steam and teams come back at you, you can't finish anyone off or protect those early goals IMO, as such, even with players to come back, we've all seen your hand and just like Everton did in the first half, teams will play you at your own game, but where's your plan B, I personally don't think you have one?
		
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Everton attempted to nullify the threat yesterday but even then at half time we had the better chances of that half. We then dominated the second half to finish them off and finish the stronger - certainly didn't seem to run out of steam last night , or against Boro. Against Bournemouth we lost concentration as opposed to fitness 



			Man Utd have now found their feet and I expect them to carry that on now, they traditionally step it up after Christmas but I still don't think they'll reach the top 4, but if they do, it will be at Liverpool's expense as I think those immediately below you have better strength in depth and will dip into the market in January and strengthen even more, I think you'll burn up, a bit like Boom & Bust but in football terminology.
		
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A number have said that we will burn up because it seems to me that the team is getting stronger - a few players will return to the side soon to bolster it , Klopp will sign players during the window to strengthen in areas. With Chelsea so reliant on Costa there is a chance that he could suffer with fatigue and injury as he will need to play every single minute. The biggest hit for us could be Mane going to the ACN - his pace will be a big miss. Our strength in depth prob needs a couple more but then I think that could be the same for all teams

Think there are a lot of twists and turns to come just yet in the title race and don't think anyone can be written off yet - could be one the best title races for a while


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think the foreign players fully appreciate what the Derby means - only have to see the reaction from them when the whistle went and staying behind to celebrate with the fans - I think you would have to be made of stone to not get the Derby especially in Liverpool


Why do we need an excuse ? Each team so far has had a little run going in the league , and each one has come to halt with a couple of stumbling games -  Chelsea started poorly with some big defeats and now on their run , I have no doubt they will have the same sort of stumble that Arsenal , Liverpool and City have had - especially when they appear to be reliant on one goalscorer


Everton attempted to nullify the threat yesterday but even then at half time we had the better chances of that half. We then dominated the second half to finish them off and finish the stronger - certainly didn't seem to run out of steam last night , or against Boro. Against Bournemouth we lost concentration as opposed to fitness 


A number have said that we will burn up because it seems to me that the team is getting stronger - a few players will return to the side soon to bolster it , Klopp will sign players during the window to strengthen in areas. With Chelsea so reliant on Costa there is a chance that he could suffer with fatigue and injury as he will need to play every single minute. The biggest hit for us could be Mane going to the ACN - his pace will be a big miss. Our strength in depth prob needs a couple more but then I think that could be the same for all teams

Think there are a lot of twists and turns to come just yet in the title race and don't think anyone can be written off yet - could be one the best title races for a while
		
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TBH, I think it'll be LPool chasing Chelsea as the main 2, they seem to have the most consistencey, whether that is down to no European Football remains to be seen, I don't think either manager would accept a bad run of 2-3 games.
I find your last paragraph amusing as you'd written Arsenal off back in November :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			TBH, I think it'll be LPool chasing Chelsea as the main 2, they seem to have the most consistencey, whether that is down to no European Football remains to be seen, I don't think either manager would accept a bad run of 2-3 games.
I find your last paragraph amusing as you'd written *Arsenal off back in November *:rofl:
		
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He was 2 months too late though:rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			TBH, I think it'll be LPool chasing Chelsea as the main 2, they seem to have the most consistencey, whether that is down to no European Football remains to be seen, I don't think either manager would accept a bad run of 2-3 games.
I find your last paragraph amusing as you'd written Arsenal off back in November :rofl:
		
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It more a token sympathy mention tbh - we all know they will end up 4th and knocked out of the CL in the last 16 leaving City Chelsea and Lpool to fight it out with Mancs and Spurs fighting for 5th 

If I had to go right now with a finishing top 6 it would be what the table is tbh

Chelsea
Liverpool
City
Arsenal
Spurs 
Mancs


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## garyinderry (Dec 20, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			No mate you will have to see it first.
He was off the ground because he was pushed,watch it and you might change your mind
		
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Just catching up on this as I missed it at the weekend.   I see the red card stands.   very harsh.  I can see clearly why the ref sent him off but watching the slow motion replays I can fully understand how he ended up going in like he did.  It certainly wasn't a conscious act of flying in with two feet.  The jostling before had a massive hand in how the tackle for the loose ball took place.


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## garyinderry (Dec 20, 2016)

[video=youtube;JAZcjPQyxhQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAZcjPQyxhQ[/video]


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			Just catching up on this as I missed it at the weekend.   I see the red card stands.   very harsh.  I can see clearly why the ref sent him off but watching the slow motion replays I can fully understand how he ended up going in like he did.  It certainly wasn't a conscious act of flying in with two feet.  The jostling before had a massive hand in how the tackle for the loose ball took place.
		
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That's exactly what I said on saturday, from the Refs angle he is mid air with both feet off the floor, Stoke players all appealed, but as you say, in slo-mo he is eased off the ball by Johnson. Certainly harsh.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It more a token sympathy mention tbh - we all know they will end up 4th and knocked out of the CL in the last 16 leaving City Chelsea and Lpool to fight it out with Mancs and Spurs fighting for 5th 

If I had to go right now with a finishing top 6 it would be what the table is tbh

Chelsea
Liverpool
City
Arsenal
Spurs 
Mancs
		
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Agree on the top 2, but believe Utd might push further up, how far I'm not sure.
Not sure how each team will be affected by ACN, obviously some more than others.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 20, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It more a token sympathy mention tbh - we all know they will end up 4th and knocked out of the CL in the last 16 leaving City Chelsea and Lpool to fight it out with Mancs and Spurs fighting for 5th 

If I had to go right now with a finishing top 6 it would be what the table is tbh

Chelsea
Liverpool
City
Arsenal
Spurs 
Mancs
		
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Wow absolutely no belief in your own team,when are you going to win it then,probably not in our lifetime.

Unfortunately for us Chelsea have flown so I'm going

Chelsea
Utd 
Arsenal
City
Liverpool
Spurs


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Agree on the top 2, but believe Utd might push further up, how far I'm not sure.
Not sure how each team will be affected by ACN, obviously some more than others.
		
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ACN could be a big one for us because I think it will affect us most losing Mane - don't think any of the other teams lose big players 

Still nowhere near convinced with Utd - might scrape into top 4 but think there first 11 is the weakest on paper and it shows. Mhyktrian (sp!) is the key for them


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			ACN could be a big one for us because I think it will affect us most losing Mane - don't think any of the other teams lose big players 

Still nowhere near convinced with Utd - might scrape into top 4 but think there first 11 is the weakest on paper and it shows. Mhyktrian (sp!) is the key for them
		
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On paper I'd say Utd have one of the strongest 11, that's been their issue, the 11 haven't clicked.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			On paper I'd say Utd have one of the strongest 11, that's been their issue, the 11 haven't clicked.
		
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But are starting to.

We are relying on Zlatan for goals but have Rashford and Martial and Rooney so a big squad.

Chelsea rely on Costa but both these could hit 30 goals alone.

One thing you need in these title races are plan Bs just look at City without Auguero.

Liverpool have by far the weakest squad and will need to strengthen to stay in the race imo.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			On paper I'd say Utd have one of the strongest 11, that's been their issue, the 11 haven't clicked.
		
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Not for me - weak links at RB , CB , CM and the wide areas. Their strength for me is De Gea and Carrick at the moment. City with all fit for me still the strongest but Ilkay a massive loss for them and still need a CB , Chelsea - the back three the weak link , Arsenal - the centre mid and another CB and us - the back line when Matip is out but we have managed a couple clean sheets in the last couple of games without him and then there is the GK. So for me Utd have more weak links or gaps.


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## Fish (Dec 20, 2016)

For me, it's

Chelsea
City
Utd 
Arsenal
Liverpool
Spurs


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## pokerjoke (Dec 20, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not for me - weak links at RB , CB , CM and the wide areas. Their strength for me is De Gea and Carrick at the moment. City with all fit for me still the strongest but Ilkay a massive loss for them and still need a CB , Chelsea - the back three the weak link , Arsenal - the centre mid and another CB and us - the back line when Matip is out but we have managed a couple clean sheets in the last couple of games without him and then there is the GK. So for me Utd have more weak links or gaps.
		
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The good news is you don't know what your talking about so we have a chance.

You obviously have not watched us lately and how well the back 4 are playing.


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## Fish (Dec 20, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Chelsea - the back three the weak link
		
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&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;

That's why 2 of them are in all the pundits team of the season to date. 

And to think we have Zouma to come back still.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not for me - weak links at RB , CB , CM and the wide areas. Their strength for me is De Gea and Carrick at the moment. City with all fit for me still the strongest but Ilkay a massive loss for them and still need a CB , Chelsea - the back three the weak link , Arsenal - the centre mid and another CB and us - the back line when Matip is out but we have managed a couple clean sheets in the last couple of games without him and then there is the GK. So for me Utd have more weak links or gaps.
		
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Last night after the match, both Neville and Carragher had Azpil... and Luiz in their team of the season so far, As much as you's are playing well I think that's more down to Klopp getting performances from players that imo on paper are not as good player to player as Utd have, Jose is only now starting to get these players near to performing, for a side that has had the worst start, they aren't really that far off.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Last night after the match, both Neville and Carragher had Azpil... and Luiz in their team of the season so far, As much as you's are playing well I think that's more down to Klopp getting performances from players that imo on paper are not as good player to player as Utd have, Jose is only now starting to get these players near to performing, for a side that has had the worst start, they aren't really that far off.
		
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All about opinions but I believe if a team got past Kante and at those CB's then they wouldn't cope - that's the area to expose Chelsea, they are being covered by Kante who is out of this world . 

A long way to go for Utd yet - without Mhkytarion just think they look laboured going forward especially without Rashford and Martial nowhere near any sort of form.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All about opinions but I believe if a team got past Kante and at those CB's then they wouldn't cope - that's the area to expose Chelsea, they are being covered by Kante who is out of this world . 

A long way to go for Utd yet - without Mhkytarion just think they look laboured going forward especially without Rashford and Martial nowhere near any sort of form.
		
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That could go LPool as well, get past Henderson and those at CB wouldn't cope, before last night you'd conceded the same amount of goals as us so far this season.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			That could go LPool as well, get past Henderson and those at CB wouldn't cope, before last night you'd conceded the same amount of goals as us so far this season.
		
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Hence why I had already said a CB is our weak link along with a GK but there was a number of encouraging signs from Klavan and Lovren last night


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## davemc1 (Dec 20, 2016)

I cant get my head round Martial. Think hes a cracking player, yet both utd and france use him sparingly. I wouldnt be surprised to see him leave.



Prob go to everton with Ericsson


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## sawtooth (Dec 20, 2016)

Chelsea are looking the most complete team at the moment but they will probably hit a bad patch like most teams do.

No European football is probably helping a bit as well, Chelsea and Liverpool 1-2 in the league.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			I cant get my head round Martial. Think hes a cracking player, yet both utd and france use him sparingly. I wouldnt be surprised to see him leave.



Prob go to everton with Ericsson 

Click to expand...

Proper obsessed with us, you la :rofl:


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## davemc1 (Dec 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Proper obsessed with us, you la :rofl:
		
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Haha, this is bad coming from the biggest closet red ive ever known :whoo:


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## Slime (Dec 20, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Wasn't that how Cantona from Leeds to Man U happened? I recall hearing something about the Leeds manager speaking to Ferguson about buying one of the Man United players. Ferguson said no but I'll buy Cantona if you'd sell him and the Leeds manager said ok.
		
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The word on the street was that he had to go because he was doing Lee Chapman's wife.




Liverpoolphil said:



			It more a token sympathy mention tbh - we all know they will end up 4th and knocked out of the CL in the last 16 leaving City Chelsea and Lpool to fight it out with Mancs and Spurs fighting for 5th 

If I had to go right now with a finishing top 6 it would be what the table is tbh

Chelsea
Liverpool
City
Arsenal
Spurs 
Mancs
		
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I just can't believe how much of an ABU you are ................. you're almost as bad as Quinny from Talk Sport!
Was that from the head or the heart, Phil?
Do you *genuinely* believe that United are as far up the table as they'll be all season?


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## davemc1 (Dec 20, 2016)

Slime said:



			The word on the street was that he had to go because he was doing Lee Chapman's wife

They shudda sold chapman instead 

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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 20, 2016)

Slime said:



			The word on the street was that he had to go because he was doing Lee Chapman's wife.




I just can't believe how much of an ABU you are ................. you're almost as bad as Quinny from Talk Sport!
Was that from the head or the heart, Phil?
Do you *genuinely* believe that United are as far up the table as they'll be all season?
		
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It's from what I have seen this season - See them at the right place for them - they don't score enough and right now still leaking goals so yep 6th seems about right


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## Fish (Dec 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Chelsea are looking the most complete team at the moment but they will probably hit a bad patch like most teams do.

No European football is probably helping a bit as well, Chelsea and Liverpool 1-2 in the league.
		
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You've changed your tune &#129300;  and, we've already had our bad patch at the start, but now we're cookin' on gas &#128077;


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2016)

Fish said:



			For me, it's

Chelsea
City
Utd 
Arsenal
Liverpool
Spurs
		
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What happened to your "7th at  best" prediction?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



*The good news is you don't know what your talking about so we have a chance.
*
You obviously have not watched us lately and how well the back 4 are playing.
		
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Surely he is entitled to an opinion no?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Haha, this is bad coming from the biggest closet red ive ever known :whoo:
		
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Sorry mate, I forgot I'm meant to bitter all the time.
:rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			I cant get my head round Martial. Think hes a cracking player, yet both utd and france use him sparingly. I wouldnt be surprised to see him leave.



Prob go to everton with Ericsson 

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The  only Erikssen they're likely to get is Sven Goran


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			That could go LPool as well, get past Henderson and those at CB wouldn't cope, before last night you'd conceded the same amount of goals as us so far this season.
		
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Are you suggesting Henderson is as good as Kante with that comment?? :mmm:


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## sawtooth (Dec 20, 2016)

Fish said:



			You've changed your tune &#129300;  and, we've already had our bad patch at the start, but now we're cookin' on gas &#128077;
		
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No I think your bad patch is yet to come besides teams will probably figure Chelsea out a bit more in the second games against them.

And despite what you said a few weeks ago Utd are still very much in the mix for top 4.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Chelsea are looking the most complete team at the moment but they will probably hit a bad patch like most teams do.

_No European football is probably helping a bit as wel_l, Chelsea and Liverpool 1-2 in the league.
		
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It will help Arsenal come the 1st week in March ]


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			I cant get my head round Martial. Think hes a cracking player, yet both utd and france use him sparingly. I wouldnt be surprised to see him leave.



Prob go to everton with Ericsson 

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Now, now. No need to be sarky. Blending Depay, Schneiderlin and Ericsson into the team in January will be enough without adding Martial into the mix as well.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Are you suggesting Henderson is as good as Kante with that comment?? :mmm:
		
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He's certainly as important, biggest difference is the other players around them, LPool don't have Chelsea's depth, losing Henderson would have a bigger impact on you's than if Chelsea lost Kante.


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## sawtooth (Dec 20, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			It will help Arsenal come the 1st week in March ]
		
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Yeah you never know, Arsenal could go on another long unbeaten run in the league before then.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			He's certainly as important,
		
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I didn't ask how important he was :ears:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I didn't ask how important he was :ears:
		
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Pressed wrong button, see above.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah you never know, Arsenal could go on another long unbeaten run in the league before then.
		
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You need players to be fit for anything like that and as Arsenal are so consistent I don't see that happening :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Pressed wrong button, see above.
		
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Nah don't agree with that. We've got Lucas and Can.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Nah don't agree with that. We've got Lucas and Can.
		
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Lucas is going further and further back and Can isn't consistent enough.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 20, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Now, now. No need to be sarky. Blending Depay, Schneiderlin and Ericsson into the team in January will be enough without adding Martial into the mix as well.
		
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Are you really holding your hopes on Depay ? The guy was clearly found out to be nowhere near good enough for the Prem - he is another Alonso Alves - excellent in Holland on a flat track - poor in the Prem


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			He's certainly as important, biggest difference is the other players around them, LPool don't have Chelsea's depth, losing Henderson would have a bigger impact on you's than if Chelsea lost Kante.
		
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Can is more than capable of filling in


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can is more than capable of filling in
		
Click to expand...

Easily wound up and likes to wander, not saying he's a bad player, just still learning and not yet ready to step up.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 20, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are you really holding your hopes on Depay ? The guy was clearly found out to be nowhere near good enough for the Prem - he is another Alonso Alves - excellent in Holland on a flat track - poor in the Prem
		
Click to expand...

Id have him at saints. Plenty of highlights showing he still has potential. Look at all the attacking player Utd have signed. They've stunted almost all of them at some point. 

Not sayng hes the next Ronaldo. But think it's too soon to write him off.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 20, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Surely he is entitled to an opinion no?
		
Click to expand...

Never said he wasn't Stu but in my opinion he talks rubbish so if he has an opinion I don't have to agree with it.

I hate Liverpool and he hates Utd and I have no problem with that.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			He's certainly as important, biggest difference is the other players around them, LPool don't have Chelsea's depth, losing Henderson would have a bigger impact on you's than if Chelsea lost Kante.
		
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I cant believe how deep Henderson plays I cant work out wether he is a defensive midfielder or an attacking one.

I think he would be more dangerous in the final 3rd.
Sometimes last night he was the last man.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Never said he wasn't Stu but in my opinion he talks rubbish so if he has an opinion I don't have to agree with it.

I hate Liverpool and he hates Utd and I have no problem with that.
		
Click to expand...

You said he doesn't know what he's talking about but he's allowed an opinion

I just think you're a bit of a bell end on this thread.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			I cant believe how deep Henderson plays I cant work out wether he is a defensive midfielder or an attacking one.

I think he would be more dangerous in the final 3rd.
Sometimes last night he was the last man.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure he knows, he has games were he seems to cover every blade of grass, currently, imo, he's probably their most important player and why I think he'd be more of a loss than Kante would be at Chelsea.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I'm not sure he knows, he has games were he seems to cover every blade of grass, currently, imo, he's probably their most important player and why I think he'd be more of a loss than Kante would be at Chelsea.
		
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He's played all season in the DM role.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			He's played all season in the DM role.
		
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It's not a criticism Stu, in the past he was talked up as possibly replacing Gerrard and seemed a bit lost when Gerrard was in the side.
Without being accussed of being a closet red, credit were credits due, he's having a great season and at times has been seen up front, wide, last man, his workrate is what I think you couldn't currently replace with the players you've got, he's doing what Gerrard did without the goals.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 20, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			Some crying done about that tackle from Barkley.  Proper yellow card derby tackle. Bit late and looked sore as it caught henderson right on the ankle but for me that is part of the game. A rojo horror tackle it wasnt. 

Everton very slow to react for the goal. Mane is some player. You cant fail to be impressed with his energy.
		
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Rubbish Gaz, that was a ankle breaker, that luckily didnt.

A Certain Alan Stubbs said when Milan Baros did it to him that it was a ####house tackle. Every player pundit has said it was a red, as they know the intent and how reckless it was and what damage it could have caused.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Was thinking about the match last night and regardless off the performances of both teams, the result was disastrous and brilliant depending on who you support, so, forgetting all the great games you've seen, what was the worst from a results point of view.
I have 2, being there when LPool beat us 5-0 at Goodison and Rush got 4, closely followed by Utd beating us 6-2 on a Boxing Day again at Goodison. never felt so low going home from a game.
		
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The 5-0 at Goodison was my very first derby, lower Bullens in the home end with me arl fella, it was great.

We didnt get in till about 12.00, I must have had 30 glasses of coke and 40 bags of crisp, done up and down county road that night, and I was only about 11.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			The 5-0 at Goodison was my very first derby, lower Bullens in the home end with me arl fella, it was great.

We didnt get in till about 12.00, I must have had 30 glasses of coke and 40 bags of crisp, done up and down county road that night, and I was only about 11.
		
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I was 18 and on home on leave and also in the Lower Bullens, pretty sure I never went out that night.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			It's not a criticism Stu, in the past he was talked up as possibly replacing Gerrard and seemed a bit lost when Gerrard was in the side.
Without being accussed of being a closet red, credit were credits due, he's having a great season and at times has been seen up front, wide, last man, his workrate is what I think you couldn't currently replace with the players you've got, he's doing what Gerrard did without the goals.
		
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I've not took it as criticism, it's just that's been his main role this season as a DM. Saying that he and the other midfield 3 are flexible and there will be times when he'll be out of position through attacking situations and the others will drop in. 

He's not fit enough to lace Gerrard's boots and in fairness all of that hype has not helped the Lad.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I've not took it as criticism, it's just that's been his main role this season as a DM. Saying that he and the other midfield 3 are flexible and there will be times when he'll be out of position through attacking situations and the others will drop in. 

He's not fit enough to lace Gerrard's boots and in fairness all of that hype has not helped the Lad.
		
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For England's sake I'd be happy for him to continue to grow.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 20, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			I cant believe how deep Henderson plays I cant work out wether he is a defensive midfielder or an attacking one.

I think he would be more dangerous in the final 3rd.
Sometimes last night he was the last man.
		
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Its because we split our centre halves, so the DM (Henderson) goes in line with them a lot, as a pivot.

It then allows the full backs to push on, as more or less wing backs. It also lets Lallana and Wijnaldum get forward more. 
Its great as an attacking model, but obviously can leave you exposed at times.

TBH our defence isnt that bad in open play, but we are woeful at defending free kicks and corners, which is our soft underbelly.

Instead of me picking my top 6 in order, I'll go with:-

Finishing position:-

Chelsea 1-2

Liverpool 1-3

City 2-4

Arsenal 2-5

United 4-6

Spurs 5-6


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 20, 2016)

Dead tired us, lar:-


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## garyinderry (Dec 20, 2016)

Other teams usally have their feet up by the 90th minute. 

Lol  stats


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## sawtooth (Dec 21, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Dead tired us, lar:-






Click to expand...

What happened in the Bournemouth match? 

Fatigue or not the Liverpool defence ain't good enough. Likewise City's probably isn't either.

Tottenham have the opposite problem, great defence but can't score.

And Arsenal well....i'll leave that to the forum to decide.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 21, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			You said he doesn't know what he's talking about but he's allowed an opinion

I just think you're a bit of a bell end on this thread.
		
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Lol Stu but of course your entitled to your opinion.

This thread seems to make a few of us a bit different to what we normally are but its mostly good natured,i suppose its the passion we show for our respective teams.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are you really holding your hopes on Depay ? The guy was clearly found out to be nowhere near good enough for the Prem - he is another Alonso Alves - excellent in Holland on a flat track - poor in the Prem
		
Click to expand...


No I'm not but he is worth a loan move until the end of the season now that Bolassie is out. Depay is unloved and lost at Utd. Often happens at big clubs, certainly happens with Maureen. We can pick him up, give him a hug and play him week in week out. We will get more out of him. If he is a flat track bully then he will go back to Utd in June and it has only cost us some of his wages. If it goes well then presumably we will have first option on him. It's worth a punt. Someone thought he was worth something a couple of years ago so let's see if we can re-ignite him, he is young enough.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 21, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			What happened in the Bournemouth match? 

Fatigue or not the Liverpool defence ain't good enough. Likewise City's probably isn't either.

Tottenham have the opposite problem, great defence but can't score.

And Arsenal well....i'll leave that to the forum to decide.
		
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Ah, so you move from one thing to another, to suit your argument.

Bournemouth was one of them mad things that happen in the prem. No Liverpool fan has said our defence is good enough.

FYI - I don't think you noticed that this is over the whole of the prem seasons......so not really apt, from me, either.


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## Dan2501 (Dec 21, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No I'm not but he is worth a loan move until the end of the season now that Bolassie is out. Depay is unloved and lost at Utd. Often happens at big clubs, certainly happens with Maureen. We can pick him up, give him a hug and play him week in week out. We will get more out of him. If he is a flat track bully then he will go back to Utd in June and it has only cost us some of his wages. If it goes well then presumably we will have first option on him. It's worth a punt. Someone thought he was worth something a couple of years ago so let's see if we can re-ignite him, he is young enough.
		
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Certainly worth a go rather than just writing him off based on one bad season. Has already put in a match-winning performance for the Dutch this season and he's certainly capable of more than he showed last year for United. I think he could potentially be a superb signing.


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## garyinderry (Dec 21, 2016)

More likely to see him in the gossip pages for wearing an outrageous item of clothing, rather than the back pages for changing a game. 

I'd be very surprised if someone could get him to apply himself fully and realise his potential.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 21, 2016)

Who do you see splashing the cash in January and who is likely to come and go?


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 21, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Who do you see splashing the cash in January and who is likely to come and go?
		
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United, at least at the end of the season we can say that they bought fifth place.:whoo:


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## pbrown7582 (Dec 21, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			United, at least at the end of the season we can say that they bought fifth place.:whoo:
		
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:rofl:


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## Kellfire (Dec 22, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Dead tired us, lar:-






Click to expand...

Does a stat based over many years really disapprove a theory about the last year?


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## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2016)

I've just took my Lad to see father Christmas and look in went in before us


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 22, 2016)

And all you want to go with it is a yappy dog at his feet with Maureens head, and the fairy on the tree with Wingers


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 22, 2016)

Bunkermagnet said:



			And all you want to go with it is a yappy dog at his feet with Maureens head, and the fairy on the tree with Wingers

Click to expand...

And Conte looking down on them all


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## stokie_93 (Dec 22, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Who do you see splashing the cash in January and who is likely to come and go?
		
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.
I think West Ham will want to splash a bit with their current situation, they need a striker and badly (Callum Wilson is a name going round)
Don't see Chelsea doing much with their squad. Same with Arsenal as normal in January (I think their priority right now is contracts for Ozil & Sanchez)
Liverpool maybe in for a couple of players but unsure who and same with City as normal...

As for us, we need a striker & a LB. Bony looks like he's off as not in plans. Diouf is off to ACON which is leaves us with Crouch and Walters... 
I think we'll be back in for Berahino.


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## Fish (Dec 22, 2016)

Lots of gossip regarding Hart to Liverpool, not sure about the possibility of it myself.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			And Conte looking down on them all 

Click to expand...

Nah, you'd only spoil it having those 3 on it. :rofl: :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2016)

Fish said:



			Lots of gossip regarding Hart to Liverpool, not sure about the possibility of it myself.
		
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I'll be very surprised if buy anyone in Jan.


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## davemc1 (Dec 22, 2016)

Is Alan pardew...


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## Fish (Dec 22, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Is Alan pardew...
		
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Sacked....yes :thup:

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-12-22/crystal-palace-sack-manager-alan-pardew/


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 22, 2016)

I can't be bothered to trawl back through the pages on this thread but for those people who were smugly laughing at Newcastle, not my team incidentally, as Pardew and Allardyce were both doing "so well" in their respective jobs after not being wanted by the fans there.....................................nuff said?


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 22, 2016)

Whats the saying....oh yes...."be careful what you wish for".

Shame many fans don't remember it more often.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 22, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I'll be very surprised if buy anyone in Jan.
		
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I would be surprised by any movement into the top 4/5 teams. Movement out yes, in no. Movement in during January is usually at the lower end as teams panic buy to try to stay up. If you also look at the quality of player being required by the top 4/5, who will sell them that quality of player mid season? The top teams are looking fairly solid and probably don't need the upset of inserting a new star name in mid season.


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## sawtooth (Dec 22, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I can't be bothered to trawl back through the pages on this thread but for those people who were smugly laughing at Newcastle, not my team incidentally, as Pardew and Allardyce were both doing "so well" in their respective jobs after not being wanted by the fans there.....................................nuff said?
		
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Yes but Allardyce will probably take over and will keep Palace up. :thup:


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 22, 2016)

Quite probably, partly because he does that well and partly because Palace are better than at least 3 teams in that league and they are under performing. 18 months later the fans will want rid of him though because they can't bear his style of football. He keeps teams up, like Pullis, but would you want to watch his teams week in week out? History suggests, other than at Bolton, the answer is no.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 22, 2016)

I guess that answers that question that used to asked regualry 

No he isn't the best manager


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## chrisd (Dec 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I guess that answers that question that used to asked regualry 

No he isn't the best manager
		
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What berk ever said he was?.


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## 3offTheTee (Dec 22, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Quite probably, partly because he does that well and partly because Palace are better than at least 3 teams in that league and they are under performing. 18 months later the fans will want rid of him though because they can't bear his style of football. He keeps teams up, like Pullis, but would you want to watch his teams week in week out? History suggests, other than at Bolton, the answer is no.
		
Click to expand...

He was well respected at Blackburn before they were taken over by The Venky Clowns who then brought in Steve Keen and it has been downhill all the way since then.

With a bit of luck, sorry lot of luck, will just manage to stay in The Championship


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## richy (Dec 22, 2016)

I hate to say I told you so..........

I always knew he was crap


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## chrisd (Dec 22, 2016)

richy said:



			I hate to say I told you so..........

I always knew he was crap
		
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I don't remember that!


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## richy (Dec 22, 2016)

chrisd said:



			I don't remember that!
		
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Your memory isn't what it was though


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 22, 2016)

Will be interested to see what sort of reception Allardyce gets if he gets appointed as seems likely. How much stick will he get for the England farce? What sort of football will Palace play and will he keep them up. At least he'll have January to get players in


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 22, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Quite probably, partly because he does that well and partly because Palace are better than at least 3 teams in that league and they are under performing. 18 months later the fans will want rid of him though because they can't bear his style of football. He keeps teams up, like Pullis, but would you want to watch his teams week in week out? History suggests, other than at Bolton, the answer is no.
		
Click to expand...

That seems a little bit harsh on Pulis who has been doing a decent job at West Brom. Have only seen them on MOTD but they've looked like they've been playing some reasonable football and are comfortably in the top half of the table.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 22, 2016)

Rumblings that Hodgson has interviewed for the job at Palace


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Rumblings that Hodgson has interviewed for the job at Palace
		
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Hodgson long odds with Sky http://www.skysports.com/football/n...-sam-allardyce-odds-on-to-replace-alan-pardew


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## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Rumblings that Hodgson has interviewed for the job at Palace
		
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:rofl: :rofl: Imagine being replaced by that fraud


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 23, 2016)

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38411955

Chelsea cleared in handling of sex abuse case.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 23, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38411955

Chelsea cleared in handling of sex abuse case.
		
Click to expand...

Thank you Paul, the original poster seems to have missed the update. :cheers:


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## USER1999 (Dec 23, 2016)

Alardyce will be back in employment by Christmas then. Bungtastic news.


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## anotherdouble (Dec 23, 2016)

Oscar to china on Jan 1st in Â£60M deal. Great business for the blue gods


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## pokerjoke (Dec 23, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			Oscar to china on Jan 1st in Â£60M deal. Great business for the blue gods
		
Click to expand...

Yes great business 60 million for a sub although a good one.

China obviously has too much money and will pay stupid amounts for top names,if Oscar is 60 mill then there are many 100 mill players.


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## sawtooth (Dec 23, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Yes great business 60 million for a sub although a good one.

China obviously has too much money and will pay stupid amounts for top names,if Oscar is 60 mill then there are many 100 mill players.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah Ozil would be worth Â£150M 

Me being cynical but offloading players to China for inflated fees seems a great way to get around FFP rules.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 23, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah Ozil would be worth Â£150M 

Me being cynical but offloading players to China for inflated fees seems a great way to get around FFP rules.
		
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Ozil the other day would have been a tenner.

I actually thought football fees might have dropped over the last few years but it seems that now its getting close to someone earning 500k a week[madness].


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## stokie_93 (Dec 23, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Ozil the other day would have been a tenner.

I actually thought football fees might have dropped over the last few years but it seems that now its getting close to someone earning 500k a week[madness].
		
Click to expand...

There's talk about Tevez earning 600k a week, the guys 33!


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## richy (Dec 23, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah Ozil would be worth Â£150M 

Me being cynical but offloading players to China for inflated fees seems a great way to get around FFP rules.
		
Click to expand...

Imagine how much he'd be worth if he actually put a shift in?


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## sawtooth (Dec 23, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Ozil the other day would have been a tenner.

I actually thought football fees might have dropped over the last few years but it seems that now its getting close to someone earning 500k a week[madness].
		
Click to expand...

Same here, it's absolute madness.

It looks like the PL table will mirror the financial table yet again after the freak  season last year.


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## anotherdouble (Dec 23, 2016)

richy said:



			Imagine how much he'd be worth if he actually put a shift in?
		
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Hope his bank card doesn't go missing like he does otherwise Mrs Ozil won't be happy


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 23, 2016)

Sad to see from an ambition perspective but Oscar is only young so two years in China, trouser the cash and then come back to proper football. There is a Brazilian community appearing in Chinese football so maybe it not a surprise that he is going there. Great move from Chelsea, certainly helps thier FFP. I bet Man City will be looking to hawk some players to China if they are going to pay those types of fees.


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## One Planer (Dec 23, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Sad to see from an ambition perspective but Oscar is only young so two years in China, trouser the cash and then come back to proper football. There is a Brazilian community appearing in Chinese football so maybe it not a surprise that he is going there. Great move from Chelsea, certainly helps thier FFP. I bet Man City will be looking to hawk some players to China if they are going to pay those types of fees.
		
Click to expand...

Heard a whisper that Tevez is on the verge of moving from Boca Juniors to a Chinese side. Â£650K a week reported salary!

They're throwing some crazy money at it just now.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 23, 2016)

New billionaires showing off to their other rich friends. They are toys for rich people. The joy of communism.


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## Sweep (Dec 23, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Heard a whisper that Tevez is on the verge of moving from Boca Juniors to a Chinese side. Â£650K a week reported salary!

They're throwing some crazy money at it just now.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, Â£610k a week. For Tevez. That's Â£31.7 million a year.
All this will have a knock on effect for the EPL and football around the world. It can only end in tears.


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## ger147 (Dec 23, 2016)

Sweep said:



			Yes, Â£610k a week. For Tevez. That's Â£31.7 million a year.
All this will have a knock on effect for the EPL and football around the world. It can only end in tears.
		
Click to expand...

I can only smile at the madness when the bottom club in the EPL will be banking Â£100m a year in TV money alone but won't be able to afford anyone better than "decent"...


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## Paperboy (Dec 23, 2016)

Looks like Joey Barton has been a very naughty boy!!


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## Imurg (Dec 23, 2016)

Right.
I don't understand something......

If what Big Sam did a few months ago that cost him his job as England Manager was so bad, how come what he did back then is overlooked and it let's him back into the Premier League so soon..?

Or does everyone in Football have the memory of a dead goldfish...?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 23, 2016)

Imurg said:



			Right.
I don't understand something......

If what Big Sam did a few months ago that cost him his job as England Manager was so bad, how come what he did back then is overlooked and it let's him back into the Premier League so soon..?

Or does everyone in Football have the memory of a dead goldfish...?
		
Click to expand...

What he did was embarass himself and make his position as England manager untenable, he didn't actually "do" anything apart from talk.
Obviously Crystal Palace are willing to risk that, if he gets the job.


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## Imurg (Dec 23, 2016)

Paperboy said:



			Looks like Joey Barton has been a very naughty boy!!
		
Click to expand...

1200 bets in 10 years......When you're not allowed to bet at all....
I know footballers are supposed to be thick but this takes the trophy....


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## sawtooth (Dec 23, 2016)

Imurg said:



			Right.
I don't understand something......

If what Big Sam did a few months ago that cost him his job as England Manager was so bad, how come what he did back then is overlooked and it let's him back into the Premier League so soon..?

Or does everyone in Football have the memory of a dead goldfish...?
		
Click to expand...

There was talk of a complete ban from football for him, I guess that's not going to happen now after all.

Sam is a thoroughly good manager, limited , but good at what he does.


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## richart (Dec 23, 2016)

Imurg said:



			1200 bets in 10 years......When you're not allowed to bet at all....
I know footballers are supposed to be thick but this takes the trophy....
		
Click to expand...

Yes, but he didn't get caught for ten years.


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## Imurg (Dec 23, 2016)

richart said:



			Yes, but he didn't get caught for ten years.
		
Click to expand...

Simply proving that everyone in Football is either thick or has the memory of a dead goldfish....&#128514;


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## ger147 (Dec 23, 2016)

richart said:



			Yes, but he didn't get caught for ten years.
		
Click to expand...

I have no idea how not. When he was done for betting up here during his short stay in Glasgow, all his bets were placed via an account in his own name so no attempt to hide it from him.


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## richart (Dec 23, 2016)

ger147 said:



			I have no idea how not. When he was done for betting up here during his short stay in Glasgow, all his bets were placed via an account in his own name so no attempt to hide it from him.
		
Click to expand...

 Perhaps he was thought to be too nice to do anything wrong and wasn't investigated.


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## Imurg (Dec 23, 2016)

Maybe he'll get snapped up by Shanghai Athletic.......


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 23, 2016)

Imurg said:



			1200 bets in 10 years......When you're not allowed to bet at all....
I know footballers are supposed to be thick but this takes the trophy....
		
Click to expand...

1260 to be exact http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ey-barton-charged-with-betting-offences-by-fa and it seems weird that if the authorities had a sniff of him doing it, and surely with him there must be some pointers. A very lost soul who could have been a top class player but with all his issues he's largely frittered his career away


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 23, 2016)

Imurg said:



			Right.
I don't understand something......

If what Big Sam did a few months ago that cost him his job as England Manager was so bad, how come what he did back then is overlooked and it let's him back into the Premier League so soon..?

Or does everyone in Football have the memory of a dead goldfish...?
		
Click to expand...

Because morals left football a long time ago and all that matters to Palace is staying in the cash cow that is the Prem - that overrides anything. Fat Sam shouldn't be near another job yet gets employed within months

Palace won't care about any previous indiscretions as long as he keeps them in the Prem


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 23, 2016)

Imurg said:



			Right.
I don't understand something......

If what Big Sam did a few months ago that cost him his job as England Manager was so bad, how come what he did back then is overlooked and it let's him back into the Premier League so soon..?

Or does everyone in Football have the memory of a dead goldfish...?
		
Click to expand...

Not 100% sure but I don't think he actually broke any rules other than making his role untenable. Palace obviously don't have any issue with is baggage. Whether he'll do a good job remains to be seen, especially with the squad he has. Are they strong enough


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 23, 2016)

These two stories are both quite depressing for football. Plenty of good stories, players going into hospitals at this time of year, little Bradley at Sunderland being treated like a king by everyone in football but it can still go into the gutter without blinking. The press who caught Sam will be praising his appointment tomorrow. Sad.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 23, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			These two stories are both quite depressing for football. Plenty of good stories, players going into hospitals at this time of year, little Bradley at Sunderland being treated like a king by everyone in football but it can still go into the gutter without blinking. The press who caught Sam will be praising his appointment tomorrow. Sad.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair these feel good stories have been all over local media (for respective clubs) and Bradley has been all over TV and the press in the last few weeks so there is still some good news to be had. Sadly though bad news, gossip and idiots like Barton make stories and these sell. It has always been the same. I can only go back as far as the 70's when Revie went to UAE, Clough and Leeds etc but these stories ran and ran because controversy sells


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 23, 2016)

Homer, absolutely. There are plenty of positives regarding football but somehow it shoots itself in the foot every now and again. Every club has its community side, the visits to children's wards lift spirits for all those there. I think for tonight I'll remember the good things and not Sam and Joey.


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## chrisd (Dec 23, 2016)

Even someone who's served time in prison is entitled to gain employment after, Sam only blabbed  too much, and he was always going to get a job offer sooner or later. If we get a mid table position at the end of the season I'll be as happy as BIM when Chelsea win the PL.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 24, 2016)

Come on, do you not feel just a little dirty and down that Sam is now your manager? Are you looking forward to Sam's style?


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## Papas1982 (Dec 24, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Come on, do you not feel just a little dirty and down that Sam is now your manager? Are you looking forward to Sam's style?
		
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I think it's fair to say his style may not be too exciting. But why dirty?

the FA had to sack him I agree about that. But players do far worse and fans still idolise them.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 24, 2016)

Making none of it clean. He left in disgrace, very recently and now is being welcomed with open arms. I'm pleased it's not at my club.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 24, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Making none of it clean. He left in disgrace, very recently and now is being welcomed with open arms. I'm pleased it's not at my club.
		
Click to expand...

I personally didn't him when he was linked to us a few years ago after pochetinho. 

But if saints were 17th at January I'd take him with open arms. 

Id rather watch us in the Prem than not. Which I think is the reason palace have gone for him. I also don think he is a disgrace, but that's a whole different story.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 24, 2016)

He left in disgrace rather than being a disgrace. I put him in the grubby region but he is not in that room on his own.


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## Hobbit (Dec 24, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Making none of it clean. He left in disgrace, very recently and now is being welcomed with open arms. I'm pleased it's not at my club.
		
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Lord Tyrion said:



			He left in disgrace rather than being a disgrace. I put him in the grubby region but he is not in that room on his own.
		
Click to expand...

Until people like him and Malky Mac in Scotland are banned sine die from the game the game will always have a seedy side. If my CV showed shady dealings and rabid racism I wouldn't get a job sweeping the streets let alone a Â£6mill a year job.


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## chrisd (Dec 24, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Come on, do you not feel just a little dirty and down that Sam is now your manager? Are you looking forward to Sam's style?
		
Click to expand...

Football has become simply a results based game, it's very easy to say that a certain style isn't acceptable but I'd rather spend a few seasons in the PL with Sam's "style" than 5 years in the Championship with someone else's.


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## richy (Dec 24, 2016)

chrisd said:



			Football has become simply a results based game, it's very easy to say that a certain style isn't acceptable but I'd rather spend a few seasons in the PL with Sam's "style" than 5 years in the Championship with someone else's.
		
Click to expand...

You say that but I've enjoyed our football this season in the championship much more than any of the time Pardew was in charge. 

He's not a good manager (which I may have mentioned a few times)


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## richart (Dec 24, 2016)

richy said:



			You say that but I've enjoyed our football this season in the championship much more than any of the time Pardew was in charge. 

He's not a good manager (which I may have mentioned a few times)
		
Click to expand...

 It is bound to be more enjoyable when you are stuffing the opposition. Easier to play good football against the likes of Rotherham, Burton, and Wigan.





















and Reading.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 24, 2016)

richart said:



			It is bound to be more enjoyable when you are stuffing the opposition. Easier to play good football against the likes of Rotherham, Burton, and Wigan.





















and Reading.

Click to expand...

Easy to stuff Reading. 5-0 GET IN


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## richart (Dec 24, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Easy to stuff Reading. 5-0 GET IN
		
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 Not everyone has judging by our 3rd position.:ears:


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 24, 2016)

richart said:



			Not everyone has judging by our 3rd position.:ears:
		
Click to expand...

Will you be 3rd after we've handed you a damn good score draw on the 30th. Will you be there


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## richart (Dec 24, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Will you be 3rd after we've handed you a damn good score draw on the 30th. Will you be there
		
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 Oh yes. Revenge will be sweet.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 24, 2016)

richart said:



			Oh yes. Revenge will be sweet.
		
Click to expand...

We'll see. Looking forward to a good game, few bevvies with my Reading mates from work and the right result (for us)


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## Stuart_C (Dec 25, 2016)

Only Everton could this.     

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff320/chadmuffin/Golf stuff/IMG_20161225_185752.jpg


 :rofl: :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 25, 2016)

How sad!

Edit: Just seen it on twitter, embarrassing!!


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## Stuart_C (Dec 25, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			How sad!

Edit: Just seen it on twitter, embarrassing!!
		
Click to expand...

"Once a blue, Always a manc"
:rofl: :rofl:


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## Hobbit (Dec 25, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Only Everton could this.     

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff320/chadmuffin/Golf stuff/IMG_20161225_185752.jpg


 :rofl: :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Brilliant!

Must be staged, can't be genuine.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 25, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Brilliant!

Must be staged, can't be genuine.
		
Click to expand...

It's 100% genuine, they're Everton  aren't they


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 25, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Brilliant!

Must be staged, can't be genuine.
		
Click to expand...

Bloke ordered it from Official shop and when he opened it he noticed the badge on the No, you couldn't make it up!


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## clubchamp98 (Dec 25, 2016)

Jose is not that stupid


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## Fish (Dec 26, 2016)

clubchamp98 said:



			Jose is not that stupid
		
Click to expand...

No, but he loves a conspiracy &#128540;


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## sawtooth (Dec 26, 2016)

It didn't take long Big Sam to make his mark.

1up at Watford


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## Papas1982 (Dec 26, 2016)

Still can't get over clattenberg and his Ronaldo stance!

and know card fir the keeper? Seriously?


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## Fish (Dec 26, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			It didn't take long Big Sam to make his mark.

1up at Watford
		
Click to expand...

Not hard, Watford are woeful, then 2 quick injuries forcing changes, Palace should win at a canter.


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## GG26 (Dec 26, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Still can't get over clattenberg and his Ronaldo stance!

and know card fir the keeper? Seriously?
		
Click to expand...

Clear yellow card at least, but awful penalty.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 26, 2016)

GG26 said:



			Clear yellow card at least, but awful penalty.
		
Click to expand...

Just saw the challenge very quickly so will have to see it again but was it not a leg breaker?

Also have not seen the teams yet but imo Townsend playing was a must in a struggling team but he had not been starting of late under Pardew.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 26, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Just saw the challenge very quickly so will have to see it again but was it not a leg breaker?

Also have not seen the teams yet but imo Townsend playing was a must in a struggling team but he had not been starting of late under Pardew.
		
Click to expand...

The ref signalled that he wasn't goal bound and I know theyve mentioned changing it two a yellow unless clear goal scoring or dangerous play. 

But it the fact he kicked him in the shin should have been a yellow wherever it was on the pitch.


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## Fish (Dec 26, 2016)

Firmino won't be driving to Anfield when Chelsea visit .....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...#38;ns_campaign=bbcnews&#38;ns_source=twitter


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## Papas1982 (Dec 26, 2016)

Fish said:



			Firmino won't be driving to Anfield when Chelsea visit .....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=twitter

Click to expand...

Be interesting to see if the moral code they used against sakho is as strong as when put against a first teamed......


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## Stuart_C (Dec 26, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Be interesting to see if the moral code they used against sakho is as strong as when put against a first teamed......
		
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The article doesn't say how much over the limit he was. I think there's a lot of people who have drove after a previous night's drinks after feeling OK the following morning. 

Sakho was hardly  hard done by, he had 3 warnings before turning up late for a pre season trip and missing his flight.


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## Fish (Dec 26, 2016)

Excellent penalty &#128077;


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## Fish (Dec 26, 2016)

Pedro, Willian & Hazard break away with such speed they must be a nightmare to defend against, and then Moses is there to mop up, think weve answered a few critics proving that were not wholly dependent on Costa and we've got plenty of strength & options in our squad to mix it up and still score goals.


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## Fish (Dec 26, 2016)

Shocker of a deflection but it's a goal & 3-nil and another clean sheet will do. 

12 wins and counting &#128077;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 26, 2016)

:whoo: Beat the PL Champions, we must be good :rofl:


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## Fish (Dec 26, 2016)

What a huge offside for Utd' 2nd goal &#128563;

Arsenal scrape a soft goal in the last few minutes, Man City should win tonight  but.......they can be a little hot & cold, and then tomorrow the country will all be supporting the Potters &#128077;&#128514;


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## Fish (Dec 26, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			:whoo: Beat the PL Champions, we must be good :rofl:
		
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Obviously 30,000.00 Vardy masks didn't make a difference &#128540;


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## sawtooth (Dec 26, 2016)

An important win for Arsenal today. A bit of Ozil quality and that man again Giroud. 

Has to be one of the best headers of a football in the world at the moment.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 26, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			The article doesn't say how much over the limit he was. I think there's a lot of people who have drove after a previous night's drinks after feeling OK the following morning. 

Sakho was hardly  hard done by, he had 3 warnings before turning up late for a pre season trip and missing his flight.
		
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It's irrelevant how much he was over, it's irrelevant to him what Sakho did, let the courts take their action and the club their's, he isn't the first professional footballer to get caught and he certainly won't be the last.


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## Fish (Dec 26, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			An important win for Arsenal today. A bit of Ozil quality and that man again Giroud. 

Has to be one of the best headers of a football in the world at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

Anyone can score a free header &#128540;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 26, 2016)

Fish said:



			Obviously 30,000.00 Vardy masks didn't make a difference &#128540;
		
Click to expand...

I was happier seein Mahrez starting on the bench. &#128515;


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## Fish (Dec 26, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			The article doesn't say how much over the limit he was. I think there's a lot of people who have drove after a previous night's drinks after feeling OK the following morning. 

Sakho was hardly  hard done by, he had 3 warnings before turning up late for a pre season trip and missing his flight.
		
Click to expand...

You seem to be inferring he was stopped in the morning as if we would be on our way to work after a night out, I've read elsewhere it was in the early hours being 1am, that's a bit different Stu, he's still out on the pop!


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## pokerjoke (Dec 26, 2016)

Fish said:



			What a huge offside for Utd' 2nd goal &#128563;

Arsenal scrape a soft goal in the last few minutes, Man City should win tonight  but.......they can be a little hot & cold, and then tomorrow the country will all be supporting the Potters &#128077;&#128514;
		
Click to expand...

Get your facts right it was our 3rd goal    way offside though:ears:


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## Stuart_C (Dec 26, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			It's irrelevant how much he was over, it's irrelevant to him what Sakho did, let the courts take their action and the club their's, he isn't the first professional footballer to get caught and he certainly won't be the last.
		
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My response re Sakho was to papas' point as I've quoted.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 26, 2016)

Fish said:



			You seem to be inferring he was stopped in the morning as if we would be on our way to work after a night out, I've read elsewhere it was in the early hours being 1am, that's a bit different Stu, he's still out on the pop!
		
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Usually a report will be "xxx was 2 and half times over the legal amount" and as there was none of that I *assumed* he was pulled up on his way to training. I know Her majesty's finest were out in force in town  on Saturday morning.


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## richy (Dec 26, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			The article doesn't say how much over the limit he was. I think there's a lot of people who have drove after a previous night's drinks after feeling OK the following morning.
		
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Well if everyone else is doing it, may as well just let him off then.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 26, 2016)

richy said:



			Well if everyone else is doing it, may as well just let him off then.
		
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In what way is Stu saying that ?! 

It's quite clear that Stu is just saying that a number of people drive the next day thinking they are under the limit then they actually aren't - but nowhere was he suggesting anything about being let off !


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## Papas1982 (Dec 26, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			My response re Sakho was to papas' point as I've quoted.
		
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You raise a fair point re sakho and his many stances. Personally though I'd still be expecting my club to offer more than just a slap on the wrists. But I'm sensible enough to know that there's more chance of a squad player getting scolded than first team regular. Football is business first and foremost.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 26, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Be interesting to see if the moral code they used against sakho is as strong as when put against a first teamed......
		
Click to expand...

Sahkos issues are totally different to what Firmino has done - he disrupted team meetings , late a number of times to training , was sent home from pre season due to being disruptive influence. Firmino will be dealt with by the authorities and Liverpool will also punish him for being a complete idiot

Sahko was a first team player until he threw it away during the summer


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 26, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			You raise a fair point re sakho and his many stances. Personally though I'd still be expecting my club to offer more than just a slap on the wrists. But I'm sensible enough to know that there's more chance of a squad player getting scolded than first team regular. Football is business first and foremost.
		
Click to expand...

Surely Lpool have to wait until he's found guilty before judging him.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 26, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sahkos issues are totally different to what Firmino has done - he disrupted team meetings , late a number of times to training , was sent home from pre season due to being disruptive influence. Firmino will be dealt with by the authorities and Liverpool will also punish him for being a complete idiot

Sahko was a first team player until he threw it away during the summer
		
Click to expand...

He played 21 games last season. I think we all know that some players are first team/squad payers and others are more important. 

Given the the choice of one or the other (I know they play different positions). I think firminio would be put in the team and the expense of sakho. 

Re their different faults, they are both still actions that should require displinary action. Imo, a legal incident should be teams more important than an in house disruption. Nut inaccpet that all clubs, not just Liverpool will make decisions based on what's best for the team whenever they can.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 26, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Surely Lpool have to wait until he's found guilty before judging him.
		
Click to expand...

I don't know anyone who's been charged with drink driving. So don't know how unrealsible a test is. I'd imagine you have an opportunity to plead guilty, but very few famous (rich) people don't contest a charge with expensive lawyers......

I wasn't saying they should drop him immediately, just curious how they will treat him if guilty. In comparison to someone who IMO was deemed less important to the team.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 26, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			He played 21 games last season. I think we all know that some players are first team/squad payers and others are more important. 

Given the the choice of one or the other (I know they play different positions). I think firminio would be put in the team and the expense of sakho. 

Re their different faults, they are both still actions that should require displinary action. Imo, a legal incident should be teams more important than an in house disruption. Nut inaccpet that all clubs, not just Liverpool will make decisions based on what's best for the team whenever they can.
		
Click to expand...

Sahko was out injured for parts of the season and was also banned for other parts of the season - until the summer he was one of the first choice centre backs 

Liverpool have dealt with Sahko how they see appropriate to his behaviour not what level of player he is seen as 

And Firmino will be dealt appropriately to his behaviour by the club 

Firmino isn't the first to be caught drink driving and he won't be the last - im not sure why you think it will affect the team more than a player disrupting things behind the scenes ?

Whatever angle you are looking for just isn't there


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## Papas1982 (Dec 26, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sahko was out injured for parts of the season and was also banned for other parts of the season - until the summer he was one of the first choice centre backs 

Liverpool have dealt with Sahko how they see appropriate to his behaviour not what level of player he is seen as 

And Firmino will be dealt appropriately to his behaviour by the club 

Firmino isn't the first to be caught drink driving and he won't be the last - im not sure why you think it will affect the team more than a player disrupting things behind the scenes ?

Whatever angle you are looking for just isn't there
		
Click to expand...

Im not looking for an angle at all. 

Others being caught is irrelevant too. Doesn't make his fault any better or worse. 

People are are allowed to question your club without you coming to their rescue like some knight for a damsel!

My point about sakho was that his actions were probably more of an issue towards club moral as he was disruptive. None of the players will care what firminho did. That doesn't make it right either. 

If you'd like to give me a list of topics I can and can't raise though I'll endevour to consult it before offering my opinion in future. sir.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 26, 2016)

richy said:



			Well if everyone else is doing it, may as well just let him off then.
		
Click to expand...

Not at all. The article is very vague hence my response, i was aware that there was a massive police presence pulling drivers early Saturday morning in Liverpool.

He's been caught and I'm certainly not defending him.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 26, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Im not looking for an angle at all. 

Others being caught is irrelevant too. Doesn't make his fault any better or worse. 

People are are allowed to question your club without you coming to their rescue like some knight for a damsel!

My point about sakho was that his actions were probably more of an issue towards club moral as he was disruptive. None of the players will care what firminho did. That doesn't make it right either. 

If you'd like to give me a list of topics I can and can't raise though I'll endevour to consult it before offering my opinion in future. sir.
		
Click to expand...

Of course you were looking for angle - hence the suggestion in the first place. It's quite clear exactly what you were aiming at in regards questioning the moral code of the club and treating players different with relevance to how they are seen within the squad. 

It's two separate incidents - one has been dealt with the other will be dealt with. None of it will have any relevance to how they are seen within the squad


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 26, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			I don't know anyone who's been charged with drink driving. So don't know how unrealsible a test is. I'd imagine you have an opportunity to plead guilty, but very few famous (rich) people don't contest a charge with expensive lawyers......

I wasn't saying they should drop him immediately, just curious how they will treat him if guilty. In comparison to someone who IMO was deemed less important to the team.
		
Click to expand...

City took no further action against Toure, I'd be surprised if LPool do anything.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 26, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			You raise a fair point re sakho and his many stances. Personally though I'd still be expecting my club to offer more than just a slap on the wrists. But I'm sensible enough to know that there's more chance of a squad player getting scolded than first team regular. Football is business first and foremost.
		
Click to expand...

Sakho wasn't a squad player. Sakho failed a drugs test, was late for team meetings and then missed his flight to the US for pre season despite many reminders and warnings. You cannot compare his actions to this.

I honestly don't see what LFC can do to him. He's failed a breathalyser test and he'll have to face the consequences.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 26, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			City took no further action against Toure, I'd be surprised if LPool do anything.
		
Click to expand...

Ah but the major differance between Toure and Firmino is that Toures was an 
" unfortunate understanding" with a tub of rola cola and three bottles of rum and Firmino is just a drink driver.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 26, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Ah but the major differance between Toure and Firmino is that Toures was an 
" unfortunate understanding" with a tub of rola cola and three bottles of rum and Firmino is just a drink driver. 

Click to expand...

Maybe Toure was in the passenger seat and tried to warn him about the evils of drink :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Dec 26, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			You raise a fair point re sakho and his many stances. Personally though I'd still be expecting my club to offer more than just a slap on the wrists. But I'm sensible enough to know that there's more chance of a squad player getting scolded than first team regular. Football is business first and foremost.
		
Click to expand...

I honestly don't know what else the club can do apart from a telling off.

It's a personal incident.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 26, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Sakho wasn't a squad player. Sakho failed a drugs test, was late for team meetings and then missed his flight to the US for pre season despite many reminders and warnings. You cannot compare his actions to this.

I honestly don't see what LFC can do to him. He's failed a breathalyser test and he'll have to face the consequences.
		
Click to expand...

Most companies have rules for bringing the compnany into disrepute don't they?

dpmt get me wrong. I don't think footballers should be help up as role models. So don't necessarily think he should face action. Just curious if he will. Which was all my ordinal message was meant to query.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 26, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Most companies have rules for bringing the compnany into disrepute don't they?

dpmt get me wrong. I don't think footballers should be help up as role models. So don't necessarily think he should face action. Just curious if he will. Which was all my ordinal message was meant to query.
		
Click to expand...

So your curious if he'll be treated the same way as someone who broke club rules on numerous occasions, even though you don't think he should be punished?


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## Tashyboy (Dec 26, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Maybe Toure was in the passenger seat and tried to warn him about the evils of drink :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Hmmm Toure in the passenger seat whilst Firmino is driving, that I could believe. &#128514;


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## richy (Dec 26, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In what way is Stu saying that ?! 

It's quite clear that Stu is just saying that a number of people drive the next day thinking they are under the limit then they actually aren't - but nowhere was he suggesting anything about being let off !
		
Click to expand...

Who asked you?


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## Papas1982 (Dec 26, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			So your curious if he'll be treated the same way as someone who broke club rules on numerous occasions, even though you don't think he should be punished?
		
Click to expand...

I was curious how a club would treat to seperatebplayers for misdemeanours dependant on their importance to a club.


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## richy (Dec 26, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			So your curious if he'll be treated the same way as someone who broke club rules on numerous occasions, even though you don't think he should be punished?
		
Click to expand...

He should face the harshest punishment possible. 

Club rules are one thing but the law is far more important


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## GG26 (Dec 26, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			:whoo: Beat the PL Champions, we must be good :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

I was there - both sides poor and Everton got the rub of the green.  Quite why Ranierei took off Demarai Grey, our most potent threat was beyond me.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 26, 2016)

richy said:



*He should face the harshest punishment possible. *

Club rules are one thing but the law is far more important
		
Click to expand...

I agree, he should be punished by the law in line with how over the limit he was.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 26, 2016)

GG26 said:



			I was there - both sides poor and Everton got the rub of the green.  Quite why Ranierei took off Demarai Grey, our most potent threat was beyond me.
		
Click to expand...

Watched it on dodgy box, heard you's booing when he took him off.


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## Slime (Dec 26, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Get your facts right it was our 3rd goal   *way offside though*:ears:
		
Click to expand...

Deffo offside ....................... but what a finish!
And how that wasn't a penalty in the first half is absolutely beyond me.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Watched it on dodgy box, heard you's booing when he took him off.
		
Click to expand...

won a game have yers? 1win and you remember how to type :rofl:

Where's Tigerman these days?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 27, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			won a game have yers? 1win and you remember how to type :rofl:

Where's Tigerman these days?
		
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Do one knobhead :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Do one knobhead :rofl:
		
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I'll take that as a compliment:rofl:


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## sawtooth (Dec 27, 2016)

Fish said:



			Anyone can score a free header &#128540;
		
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Is there anyone better in the air than Giroud?


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## Papas1982 (Dec 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Is there anyone better in the air than Giroud?
		
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In world football?

just I. The league id say Antonio at West Ham for one.


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## richy (Dec 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Is there anyone better in the air than Giroud?
		
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Loads


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## Fish (Dec 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Is there anyone better in the air than Giroud?
		
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Plenty, he doesn't even figure in many pundits top 10's.


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## sawtooth (Dec 27, 2016)

I'm talking In the air? Headed goals? 

Antonio?
Not even in pundits top 10?
Loads?

Seriously?! Put away your blinkers for a second and think again.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I'm talking In the air? Headed goals? 

Antonio?
Not even in pundits top 10?
Loads?

Seriously?! Put away your blinkers for a second and think again.
		
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Antonio has scored as many headers goals this season so far, as giroud did all last season. So let's talk about your blinkers......

if a pundit it says your team is lightweight and lacking a decent cm and manager. Do you suddenly take their opinion as gospel?


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## Hobbit (Dec 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Is there anyone better in the air than Giroud?
		
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I can think of four in the Premiership alone. And there's 32 players ahead of him for goals scored in the Prem this season, 3 of them ahead of him at Arsenal. 

He's a wimp. He backed out of a challenge yesterday when he could so easily have scored. He's a prime example of why Arsenal don't win anything of note. They're missing the final piece in the puzzle, i.e. bottle when the going gets tough.


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## richy (Dec 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I'm talking In the air? Headed goals? 

Antonio?
Not even in pundits top 10?
Loads?

Seriously?! Put away your blinkers for a second and think again.
		
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Hobbit said:



			I can think of four in the Premiership alone. And there's 32 players ahead of him for goals scored in the Prem this season, 3 of them ahead of him at Arsenal. 

He's a wimp. He backed out of a challenge yesterday when he could so easily have scored. He's a prime example of why Arsenal don't win anything of note. They're missing the final piece in the puzzle, i.e. bottle when the going gets tough.
		
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I was goi g to reply but someone else has pretty much said it for me. 

It's quite ironic you claim others to be blinkered when Arsenal fans are some of the most blinkered in the country.


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## sawtooth (Dec 27, 2016)

Ok Ok Giroud is a donkey, there blinkers are off.


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## richy (Dec 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Ok Ok Giroud is a donkey, there blinkers are off.
		
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I wouldn't say he's a donkey. He's an international player at a decent club. He's just not world class.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Is there anyone better in the air than Giroud?
		
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Yes 

Carroll
Mandzukic
Costa
Llorente
Ronaldo
Morata


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## anotherdouble (Dec 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I'm talking In the air? Headed goals? 

Antonio?
Not even in pundits top 10?
Loads?

Seriously?! Put away your blinkers for a second and think again.
		
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He has scored 27 headed goals for Arsenal. Even little Tim Cahill scored 31 so on that basis he hardly prolific. Current time who is better than him, don't know as not thought about it. Too wide of a base to determine who is the best in the air.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Is there anyone better in the air than Giroud?
		
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Yes there is but that headed goal yesterday was a very good one loads of strength to hold off the defender and still got power and direction.


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## Fish (Dec 27, 2016)

I reckon if shearer put his boots back on he'd pish all over him in the air, probably literally seeing what a wuss he is &#128514;&#128514;


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## Slime (Dec 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Is there anyone better in the air than Giroud?
		
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Zlatan ................ to name just one.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 27, 2016)

Come on Stoke :rofl:


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## Fish (Dec 27, 2016)

&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;

I know it's too soon but, I enjoyed that &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## user2010 (Dec 27, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Come on Stoke :rofl:
		
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Sorry?


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## Old Skier (Dec 27, 2016)

Fish said:



			&#62978;&#62978;&#62978;&#62978;

I know it's too soon but, I enjoyed that &#62978;&#62978;&#62978;
		
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Something's are just not meant to happen and this could well be one :lol:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 27, 2016)

Lpool in total control now, could see them getting 4 or 5.
Stoke are useless :rofl:


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## Old Skier (Dec 27, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Lpool in total control now, could see them getting 4 or 5.
Stoke are useless :rofl:
		
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and that's 4


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 27, 2016)

Old Skier said:



			and that's 4
		
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Stoke have given them 3 of the goals!


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## One Planer (Dec 27, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Lpool in total control now, could see them getting 4 or 5.
Stoke are useless :rofl:
		
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Can't argue with that. 

Liverpool looking good in this game.  Worthy winners today.


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## Old Skier (Dec 27, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Stoke have given them 3 of the goals!
		
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And accepted with open arms.


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## garyinderry (Dec 27, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Stoke have given them 3 of the goals!
		
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Schoolboy stuff.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2016)

Decent win from a pretty good performance with a bit of helping hand from some poor defending. Really enjoyed the first half but it sorted fizzled out in the end , keeps the pressure on with a big game coming up on Saturday


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## stokie_93 (Dec 27, 2016)

Totally embarrassing defensive performance on our behalf. 

Liverpool really looked there for the taking at the back and we could've gone 2 up. 

Better team at the end of the day but will still finish 3rd/4th.


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## Hobbit (Dec 27, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Can't argue with that. 

Liverpool looking good in this game.  Worthy winners today.
		
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They're easy on the eye too. Knock the ball around really well. Definitely seeing Kloop's influence now, and a bit like the Netherlands total football. 

Dark horses for the title...?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2016)

Swansea sack Bradley - club turning into a big of a joke with the amount of managers they have been through since Rodgers left


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 27, 2016)

Simple win for Liverpool and good to see Stoke giving out some late presents


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## Slime (Dec 27, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			They're easy on the eye too. Knock the ball around really well. Definitely seeing Kloop's influence now, and a bit like the Netherlands total football. 
*
Dark horses for the title...?*

Click to expand...

Oh my goodness, what a horrible thought ......................... come on you blues !


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## richy (Dec 27, 2016)

Did Firmino play?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2016)

richy said:



			Did Firmino play?
		
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He did - scored and was Man of the Match


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2016)

richy said:



			Did Firmino play?
		
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He did yeah, though he looked pished to me.


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## richy (Dec 27, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He did - scored and was Man of the Match
		
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Stuart_C said:



			He did yeah, though he looked pished to me.
		
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Thought as much


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2016)

richy said:



			Thought as much
		
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Did you expect him to be banned?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2016)

richy said:



			Thought as much
		
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Should he have been dropped ?


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## richy (Dec 27, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Did you expect him to be banned?
		
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No I didn't expect Liverpool to not play him.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2016)

richy said:



			No I didn't expect Liverpool to not play him.
		
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What's your point?


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## richy (Dec 27, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Should he have been dropped ?
		
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I'm not sure. What do you think?


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## sawtooth (Dec 27, 2016)

I really hope and pray that Swansea go down now. Bradley sacked after only 85 days, disgusting way to treat someone.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2016)

richy said:



			I'm not sure. What do you think?
		
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Right now his actions have embarrassed him - the club have said they will act once the case has been completed. It's a matter of law and they are leaving it up to the law to decide his fate and then they will decide if he should be punished further by the club. 

The sort of action I expect most clubs would take.


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## Old Skier (Dec 27, 2016)

Club have stated no action until after the legal process as is the correct action.


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## richy (Dec 27, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Right now his actions have embarrassed him - the club have said they will act once the case has been completed. It's a matter of law and they are leaving it up to the law to decide his fate and then they will decide if he should be punished further by the club. 

The sort of action I expect most clubs would take.
		
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His head must be right if he got MOM today.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I really hope and pray that Swansea go down now. Bradley sacked after only 85 days, disgusting way to treat someone.
		
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Can't argue. Hardly any time to get the side playing his way and or invest in January to improve things.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I really hope and pray that Swansea go down now. Bradley sacked after only 85 days, disgusting way to treat someone.
		
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Disgusting; really?  He was employed to do a job, he clearly wasn't up to it judging by the results so the owners have acted to try & stop the rot before they are condemned to the drop.  He knows the business & he knows what happens if he doesn't produce, no surprise to anyone.


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 27, 2016)

To go into sad man mode......at least our player will be able to afford it, unlike Ashley cole (Chelsea player) who said he couldnt.

Now back out of sad man mode......


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## sawtooth (Dec 27, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			Disgusting; really?  He was employed to do a job, he clearly wasn't up to it judging by the results so the owners have acted to try & stop the rot before they are condemned to the drop.  He knows the business & he knows what happens if he doesn't produce, no surprise to anyone.
		
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What do you expect him to do in 85 days? 

It took Ferguson 3-4 seasons to start making a difference at Utd. Not saying he should have that long but 85 days ?!

Pathetic expecting an improvement on Guidoline in such a short space of time.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			What do you expect him to do in 85 days? 

It took Ferguson 3-4 seasons to start making a difference at Utd. Not saying he should have that long but 85 days ?!

Pathetic expecting an improvement on Guidoline in such a short space of time.
		
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There's considerably more money at stake now than when fergie came in. If rumours of all the players being against him are true, then sacking him was only option. Can't sack the whole squad.


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## sawtooth (Dec 27, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			There's considerably more money at stake now than when fergie came in. If rumours of all the players being against him are true, then sacking him was only option. Can't sack the whole squad.
		
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Yeah I know the pressures but did Bradley even get to buy or sell a single player? 

I just think the owners are deluded and they will hire and fire , expecting instant results and it will probably end in tears.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah I know the pressures but did Bradley even get to buy or sell a single player? 

I just think the owners are deluded and they will hire and fire , expecting instant results and it will probably end in tears.
		
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Or they've realised they can't be loyal to a fellow yank without reason to be. 

Imo he shouldn't have got the job in the first place. That being said, selling Williams's for such a fee was crazy too. I think they'll struggle to get too many in this window. Would be a shame as they did until last year play some good stuff.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah I know the pressures but did Bradley even get to buy or sell a single player? 

*I just think the owners are deluded and they will hire and fire , expecting instant results and it will probably end in tears.*

Click to expand...


The American way I'm afraid.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Or they've realised they can't be loyal to a fellow yank without reason to be. 

Imo he shouldn't have got the job in the first place. That being said, selling Williams's for such a fee was crazy too. I think they'll struggle to get too many in this window. Would be a shame as they did until last year play some good stuff.
		
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Williams isn't exactly setting the standard at Everton. I think they've never properly replaced Rodgers though Garry monk was unlucky I thought.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 27, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Williams isn't exactly setting the standard at Everton. I think they've never properly replaced Rodgers though Garry monk was unlucky I thought.
		
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He's better than what he replaced this season and he's certainly better than anyone you's of got, :whoo:


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## davemc1 (Dec 28, 2016)

No talk about the 4 1 demolition? 

The reds are coming up the hill boys..x


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			He's better than what he replaced this season and he's certainly better than anyone you's of got, :whoo:
		
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He looked it last week too.

Couldn't lace Lucas' boots


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## davemc1 (Dec 28, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			He's better than what he replaced this season and he's certainly better than anyone you's of got, :whoo:
		
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Haha boss value you lid :ears:


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			No talk about the 4 1 demolition? 

The reds are coming up the hill boys..x
		
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There was, just very very briefly.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Williams isn't exactly setting the standard at Everton. I think they've never properly replaced Rodgers though Garry monk was unlucky I thought.
		
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Thats good old hindsight though. As a regular prem player and someone who had IMO a good euros, he seemed to be sold cheap. 

Not it like the board or manager can have evaluated him properly before selling him. Still think he's better than what they have.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			He looked it last week too.

Couldn't lace Lucas' boots
		
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You mean the Sub?
In a joint Merseyside team I'd only put 3 of our players in it, Coleman, Williams and Lukaku, you can have 6 and we can argue over the keeper. &#128515;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 28, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			No talk about the 4 1 demolition? 

The reds are coming up the hill boys..x
		
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Read the thread lightning, and how are you's coming up the hill, Chelsea have caught you's and then pulled away :rofl:


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## davemc1 (Dec 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			There was, just very very briefly.
		
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On it, didnt realise itd be so far back

Paul, seriously, every blue I know thinks colemans a busted flush. 2-3 years ago he was the biggest talent, now hes just the next Barkley #schoolofscience


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 28, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			On it, didnt realise itd be so far back

Paul, seriously, every blue I know thinks colemans a busted flush. 2-3 years ago he was the biggest talent, now hes just the next Barkley #schoolofscience
		
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No chance, he's quality and will only get better.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			No chance, he's quality and will only get better.
		
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Not in that team he won't.


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## davemc1 (Dec 28, 2016)

Watching the game back, thought carragher was wrong to blame mignolet for the goal, almost like hes defending his stance too much. Lovren and to a lesser extent Mane should of made sure the opportunity wasnt there.

Great result after watching eveyone else win, seems we`re not getting tired after 70 mins after all :rofl:


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			What do you expect him to do in 85 days? 

It took Ferguson 3-4 seasons to start making a difference at Utd. Not saying he should have that long but 85 days ?!

Pathetic expecting an improvement on Guidoline in such a short space of time.
		
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I'd expect him not to make the situation worse; he's succeeded in taking them two places lower than they were when he took over; he's apparently soured the relationship with the fans to the extent that it isn't fixable; and he's supposedly done the same with the dressing room.  An even keel until the transfer window might have been something, instead it's dive, dive, dive.

God knows how the owners ever thought he had the experience for the job.  Having realised that he isn't up to it they've taken the only reasonable action available to them to try & retrieve the situation.  How that is disgusting I'm not sure.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 28, 2016)

Swansea needed Bradley to give them a bounce, stop the rot, organise and inspire. That didn't happen and Swansea don't have the time to let him go further. Harsh but money in the PL is so huge they can't take the risk. A tidy pay out will be coming his way before we shed too many tears.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 28, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			I'd expect him not to make the situation worse; he's succeeded in taking them two places lower than they were when he took over; he's apparently soured the relationship with the fans to the extent that it isn't fixable; and he's supposedly done the same with the dressing room.  An even keel until the transfer window might have been something, instead it's dive, dive, dive.

God knows how the owners ever thought he had the experience for the job.  Having realised that he isn't up to it they've taken the only reasonable action available to them to try & retrieve the situation.  How that is disgusting I'm not sure.
		
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Interesting though about experience I see Giggs is favorite to take over,if anyone can my hero can.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 28, 2016)

Good weekend for the top teams.

Really impressed with Chelsea and Liverpool,Chelsea without 2 big players also.

Liverpool impressive against a very poor team especially after they started so well.

The mighty reds are coming though.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 28, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Watching the game back, thought carragher was wrong to blame mignolet for the goal, almost like hes defending his stance too much. Lovren and to a lesser extent Mane should of made sure the opportunity wasnt there.

Great result after watching eveyone else win, seems we`re not getting tired after 70 mins after all :rofl:
		
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I agree I didn't think it was the keepers fault.
Interesting no-one has mentioned your keeper that has been dropped obviously Klopp has lost confidence in him why else drop him after one mistake, I did say they both wont be their No1 next year.

Rumours of Joe Hart?


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## Fish (Dec 28, 2016)

Everton expect to complete a Â£10m deal for 19-year-old Ademola Lookman early in the January transfer window

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38449936


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 28, 2016)

Fish said:



			Everton expect to complete a Â£10m deal for 19-year-old Ademola Lookman early in the January transfer window

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38449936

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Getting linked with quite a few, same happened in the summer and we ended up with Valencia!


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## sawtooth (Dec 28, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			I'd expect him not to make the situation worse; he's succeeded in taking them two places lower than they were when he took over; he's apparently soured the relationship with the fans to the extent that it isn't fixable; and he's supposedly done the same with the dressing room.  An even keel until the transfer window might have been something, instead it's dive, dive, dive.

God knows how the owners ever thought he had the experience for the job.  Having realised that he isn't up to it they've taken the only reasonable action available to them to try & retrieve the situation.  How that is disgusting I'm not sure.
		
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It seems horrendously unfair to me. 11 matches in charge with a team that his predecessor assembled. Also had just sold their talisman Ashley Williams to Everton. 

Bradley didn't have a chance to ship players out and bring his players in. They couldn't even wait for the January window before they sacked him.

The fans were always going to get on a managers back if results weren't good.

I agree that he wasn't the right man at that time to come in but once in they should have stood by him until the end of the season at least. That's why I think the owners treatment of Bradley is disgusting.

Unless they give new man money in January they will most likely go down.


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## Slime (Dec 28, 2016)

FWIW I also think he's been treated very, very poorly indeed.
He's been given less than three months between transfer windows! Unable to change the squad. Unable to ship anyone out or bring anyone in. What the hell did Swansea expect?


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 28, 2016)

Fish said:



			Everton expect to complete a Â£10m deal for 19-year-old Ademola Lookman early in the January transfer window

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38449936

Click to expand...

Supposedly going to take him straight away as well rather than loaning him back for the rest of the season. Is that an indictment of the current squad or is he that good?

Steve Walsh's first proper window for Everton, will be interesting.


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## Fish (Dec 28, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Supposedly going to take him straight away as well rather than loaning him back for the rest of the season. Is that an indictment of the current squad or is he that good?

Steve Walsh's first proper window for Everton, will be interesting.
		
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I think it's a case of accepting and knowing that without anyone supporting Lukaku nothing will change at Everton, so it has to be a positive buy and putting him straight in shows a good intent that they want to impress on those above them.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 28, 2016)

Hope so. I agree that the lack of support for Lukaku badly needs addressing.


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## Old Skier (Dec 28, 2016)

Spurs caught dreaming of a white Christmas


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2016)

Old Skier said:



			Spurs caught dreaming of a white Christmas
		
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I done  VVD 1st goal @ 25/1 :whoo:


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## Fish (Dec 28, 2016)

Old Skier said:



			Spurs caught dreaming of a white Christmas
		
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Manure will be celebrating as much as the Saints...


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I done  VVD 1st goal @ 25/1 :whoo:
		
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Did you really tho? 
I know a kid that claims to have bets AFTER they come in &#128584;


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Did you really tho? 
I know a kid that claims to have bets AFTER they come in &#128584;
		
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I did yeah. Sorry for Aftertiming like  but they did score within 90 seconds.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I did yeah. Sorry for Aftertiming like  but they did score within 90 seconds.
		
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Nice 1 &#128077;&#127995;


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## sawtooth (Dec 28, 2016)

Another goal conceded by player turning back on the ball. 

Why don't managers stamp this out?


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Another goal conceded by player turning back on the ball. 

Why don't managers stamp this out?
		
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No idea how they'd do that. Is it a modern thing? I can remember seeing defenders turn their back in the past. Is it a continental thing when you compare them to the likes of Terry, Carragher, Bruce, etc


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## Fish (Dec 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Another goal conceded by player turning back on the ball. 

Why don't managers stamp this out?
		
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Getting worried are you, another goal will see them only 1 point behind you again, I can see you struggling to hang on to that 4th spot this season &#128540;


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## sawtooth (Dec 28, 2016)

Fish said:



			Getting worried are you, another goal will see them only 1 point behind you again, I can see you struggling to hang on to that 4th spot this season &#128540;
		
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Why would you expect something that hasn't happened in the last 20 seasons?

Wishful thinking yes but expectation? I don't think so.

I will probably have to drop one of my picks for top 4 soon as it looks like Chelsea will grab one of the spots.

Still too early to call top 4 as we haven't reached half way yet and all to play for still.


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## sawtooth (Dec 28, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			No idea how they'd do that. Is it a modern thing? I can remember seeing defenders turn their back in the past. Is it a continental thing when you compare them to the likes of Terry, Carragher, Bruce, etc
		
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It is a modern thing yes. Once upon a time when footballers were men they never used to cry when the ball hit them.

I heard recently on the radio that Arthur Cox told players that they would not play for him again if he saw them do that.

Managers could fine players or drop them, I would!!


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 28, 2016)

Two great headed goals from Spurs tonight.


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## Fish (Dec 28, 2016)

Another header &#128540; 

Both Spurs & Manure look far more convincing than Arsenal who scrape through matches currently, 4th, 5th & 6th getting very interesting, 1 slip and it's all change &#128540;


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 28, 2016)

That penalty looked a bit soft and was it a red card? Justice perhaps with that atrocious effort from Kane


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## Fish (Dec 28, 2016)

Penalty now..........and a red card, can't see a way back for Saints now.......what a miss.....was he last man for the red or has he said something to the ref?


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2016)

somethings just landed in my back garden, gonna go and check but assume its Kanes penalty lol


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			That penalty looked a bit soft and was it a red card? Justice perhaps with that atrocious effort from Kane
		
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I thought it was very soft and the Red was harsh.


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## Fish (Dec 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I thought it was very soft and the Red was harsh.
		
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I think he's had a tug at him before he fell into him, the ref saw it but the cameraman didn't, not sure he was last defender though with the 2 running by the side of them.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I thought it was very soft and the Red was harsh.
		
Click to expand...

I thought the rules had changed in Regards red card and penalties 

*A foul on a running striker committed by the last man of the defence will no longer result in a direct red card and suspension, unless the foul is violent or consists in a hand-ball in the box. *

Edit : deliberate fouls still get a red so


----------



## sawtooth (Dec 28, 2016)

Fish said:



			Another header &#63004; 

Both Spurs & Manure look far more convincing than Arsenal who scrape through matches currently, 4th, 5th & 6th getting very interesting, 1 slip and it's all change &#63004;
		
Click to expand...

Mark of a good team though, getting results when not playing that great.:thup:

Kane unfortunate there with the pen. His standing foot displaced turf as he took his pen and effectively put the ball up on a tee. No wonder he skied it!


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 28, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I thought the rules had changed in Regards red card and penalties 

*A foul on a running striker committed by the last man of the defence will no longer result in a direct red card and suspension, unless the foul is violent or consists in a hand-ball in the box. *

Click to expand...

Just been screaming that at the tv. 

Sours have been playing well, we missed our chance for 2-0. But with 10 men the ref has really helped us out!?!


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2016)

Fish said:



			I think he's had a tug at him before he fell into him, the ref saw it but the cameraman didn't, not sure he was last defender though with the 2 running by the side of them.
		
Click to expand...

The initial "contact " was outside the box. We've seen it many times where a foul has continued in the box only for it to be pulled back and a free kick be given.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I thought the rules had changed in Regards red card and penalties 

*A foul on a running striker committed by the last man of the defence will no longer result in a direct red card and suspension, unless the foul is violent or consists in a hand-ball in the box. *

Edit : deliberate fouls still get a red so
		
Click to expand...

I don't think it's was either.


----------



## Slime (Dec 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Another goal conceded by player turning back on the ball. 

*Why don't managers stamp this out?*

Click to expand...

It's just human instinct to turn away from possible damage.
A manager can't just tell a player to turn his back and it'd be very difficult to train it out of a player.


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## Fish (Dec 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			The initial "contact " was outside the box. We've seen it many times where a foul has continued in the box only for it to be pulled back and a free kick be given.
		
Click to expand...

Well it took a long time, maybe the linesman has relayed something to the ref and then hes given it? Or maybe words were exchanged?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I don't think it's was either.
		
Click to expand...

If he had pulled him back in the box then it can only be deliberate so a red card is right - looking at the replays so far whilst it's soft it's prob the correct call


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## Papas1982 (Dec 28, 2016)

Fish said:



			Well it took a long time, maybe the linesman has relayed something to the ref and then hes given it? Or maybe words were exchanged?
		
Click to expand...

Or the refs just got it wrong?

i can accept its a pen, albeit there is a case the offence occurred outsode the box. But it's not a red. Even if it was for something he said, when was a player last sent off for foul language? Would surely be two yellows if it were one for each. Not straight red.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 28, 2016)

Looking at that last replay, the inital pull looked to have started outsode the box anyway. No idea what the linesman could have relayed as the ref had already given it so he'd made the decision not the linesman. Only the ref would have heard any abusive language which would be a straight red but the delay seemed strange. Kane's miss evened up a poor decision and Spurs not good enough tonight to make the extra man count (at least so far)


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## Fish (Dec 28, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Or the refs just got it wrong?

i can accept its a pen, albeit there is a case the offence occurred outsode the box. But it's not a red. Even if it was for something he said, when was a player last sent off for foul language? Would surely be two yellows if it were one for each. Not straight red.
		
Click to expand...

It would seem it's because he made no attempt at the ball, so the initial offence happened outside the box but he then deliberately fell into him bringing him down, thus it's a straight red!


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## Papas1982 (Dec 28, 2016)

Realistically. Fonte should be gone there.


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## Fish (Dec 28, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Realistically. Fonte should be gone there.
		
Click to expand...

Not in control and could have been bad, lucky boy.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 28, 2016)

Fish said:



			It would seem it's because he made no attempt at the ball, so the initial offence happened outside the box but he then deliberately fell into him bringing him down, thus it's a straight red!
		
Click to expand...

i don't think there were two separate motions if I'm honest. I think the entire action was one movement. If there was 10 yards prior to the box he'd still have fell into him. 

Point being that that he was always going to fall into him as he couldn't catch him. Therefor it's not IMO deliberate. No more so than any mistimed tackle. 

But it it's been levelled now as fonte should be gone.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 28, 2016)

Fish said:



			Not in control and could have been bad, lucky boy.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe it's his soon to be Man Utd protection from refs kicking in.......


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2016)

I reckon Lloris has got 2-2


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## Fish (Dec 28, 2016)

That took a wicked deflection right into his path, I'd just said to the wife that Saints were still in this, I'll keep my mouth shut in future &#128540;


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## Fish (Dec 28, 2016)

That's another good finish, but too many tackles missed and too much time in the box.


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## Papas1982 (Dec 28, 2016)

Fish said:



			That's another good finish, but too many tackles missed and too much time in the box.
		
Click to expand...

Heads well and truly gone. 

Nice fairwell for fonte.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2016)

Fish said:



			That took a wicked deflection right into his path, I'd just said to the wife that Saints were still in this*, I'll keep my mouth shut in future* &#128540;
		
Click to expand...

Where's the like button when you need it:rofl:


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 29, 2016)

Rooney has a few drinks on his day off in a hotel, crucified. 

Firmino drink drives, endangers lives and gets this. The hypocrisy is real.



Stolen off twitter but hard to argue.


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## sawtooth (Dec 30, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Rooney has a few drinks on his day off in a hotel, crucified. 

Firmino drink drives, endangers lives and gets this. The hypocrisy is real.
View attachment 21553


Stolen off twitter but hard to argue.
		
Click to expand...

For-me-no is Brazilian, it was never going to be a bigger story than the England captain.

it might be the opposite over in Brazil who knows.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 30, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			For-me-no is Brazilian, it was never going to be a bigger story than the England captain.

it might be the opposite over in Brazil who knows.
		
Click to expand...

The Rooney "incident" wasn't even a story tho,but because he was the scapegoat for the national side being so rubbish the press went to town on it.


----------



## sawtooth (Dec 30, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			The Rooney "incident" wasn't even a story tho,but because he was the scapegoat for the national side being so rubbish the press went to town on it.
		
Click to expand...

That pretty much explains it. 

I bet there's been more column inches about Formeno's ridiculous white teeth than his drink drive charge. &#128567;


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2016)

http://www.espnfc.com/story/3028297...o-move-to-china-with-100m-salary-jorge-mendes

Just a ridiculous amount of money - and I don't think it will be long before it happens


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 30, 2016)

How crap is this match! 2 bad teams.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 30, 2016)

Great free kick by Snodgrass, worth a watch, 
Let's hope 2017 is better!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 30, 2016)

How did he miss that header? Wonderful cross from the busted flush that is Coleman &#128513;.

 Probably sums up where Everton are at the moment. Couple of new boys in January please.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 30, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How did he miss that header? Wonderful cross from the busted flush that is Coleman &#128513;.

 Probably sums up where Everton are at the moment. Couple of new boys in January please.
		
Click to expand...

I think we need more than 2!


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## Fish (Dec 31, 2016)

Didn't watch it but looking at the scores and the times, you were lucky to go down the tunnel at half time level only thanks to an own goal!


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## stokie_93 (Dec 31, 2016)

Really not looking forward to today's game


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 31, 2016)

I don't think my 7 year old is very impressed with the quality of Scottish football. I've got the Old Firm game on and he just said "why do we have to watch rubbish League 1 football".


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 31, 2016)

The quality is poor but there is lots of action and shots on goal.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 31, 2016)

I feel so dirty as I have just included Liverpool in my win accumulator,now I'm torn between supporting them and wanting them to lose


----------



## Hobbit (Dec 31, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			I feel so dirty as I have just included Liverpool in my win accumulator,now I'm torn between supporting them and wanting them to lose

Click to expand...

Hope you didn't take Utd against the mighty Boro...


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 31, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Hope you didn't take Utd against the mighty Boro...
		
Click to expand...

Of course so I only hope we win by 2 or 3


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## Fish (Dec 31, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			I feel so dirty as I have just included Liverpool in my win accumulator,now I'm torn between supporting them and wanting them to lose

Click to expand...




Hobbit said:



			Hope you didn't take Utd against the mighty Boro...
		
Click to expand...




pokerjoke said:



			Of course so I only hope we win by 2 or 3
		
Click to expand...

I'd tear it up now and flush it &#128540;


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## Fish (Dec 31, 2016)

&#128079;&#128079;&#128079;&#128079;


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 31, 2016)

Well it's seem quite clear who Sutton used to play for but also possibly shows how one sided it is 

https://grabyo.com/g/v/2pMul5p55Xz


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## One Planer (Dec 31, 2016)

Fish said:



			&#62543;&#62543;&#62543;&#62543;
		
Click to expand...

.


----------



## Old Skier (Dec 31, 2016)

One Planer said:



.
		
Click to expand...

Or

 -


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## Fish (Dec 31, 2016)

One Planer said:



.
		
Click to expand...

I lost my stream, took a few minutes to get it back and you bloody scored &#128545;

I'm back now so we'll score again......


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## Old Skier (Dec 31, 2016)

Fish said:



			I lost my stream, took a few minutes to get it back and you bloody scored &#63009;

I'm back now so we'll score again......
		
Click to expand...

And you did


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## Fish (Dec 31, 2016)

Yesssssss &#128079;&#128079;&#128079;&#128079;


----------



## Old Skier (Dec 31, 2016)

fish said:



			yesssssss &#62543;&#62543;&#62543;&#62543;
		
Click to expand...

It sounds a bit mad


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## Fish (Dec 31, 2016)

That's a poor goal to give away &#128542;


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## Fish (Dec 31, 2016)

Yessssss &#128405;&#128405;&#128405;&#128405;&#128405;&#128405;


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## sawtooth (Dec 31, 2016)

Blimey the mighty Boro have the lead at OT.

Have to love this league it's so unpredictable.


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## Fish (Dec 31, 2016)

I've just seen the manure disallowed goal and have to say it's harsh but then the feet/studs are high, it's one of those that some refs will give and others won't &#129300;  

Tough titty I say &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Fish (Dec 31, 2016)

That'll do nicely &#128079;&#128079;&#128079;&#128079;


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## Kellfire (Dec 31, 2016)

Lee Mason is bloody awful.


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## davemc1 (Dec 31, 2016)

An afternoon that threatened so much ended in so little &#128078;

Up the reds 

hyn y'all


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## One Planer (Dec 31, 2016)

Good game that.

Well played Chelsea :clap:


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## Slime (Dec 31, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			I feel so dirty as I have just included Liverpool in my win accumulator,now *I'm torn between supporting them and wanting them to lose*

Click to expand...


You should want them to lose .................. you should *ALWAYS* want them to lose!


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## garyinderry (Dec 31, 2016)

City way off the boil at the minute.  So poor.


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## USER1999 (Dec 31, 2016)

Back to Bradley being sacked. I thought Swansea made a brave decision, appointing a manager from outside the prem, but with a plan, a vision, a bit of fresh blood. The alternative was Giggs, with zero experience anywhere, or which ever previous prem manager who was sacked last. I wish more teams would take a punt. Alardyce a case in point. Dreary manager, will be binned off within two years, and will advocate dreary footy.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 31, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			City way off the boil at the minute.  So poor.
		
Click to expand...

Is the kettle even on? Terrible performance and Pep seems to be struggling to get them up for these bigger games (Arsenal result aside). They've hardly threatened and seem way off


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## garyinderry (Dec 31, 2016)

Big win for the pool but by God that was a grim game of footy.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 31, 2016)

That will do nicely :whoo:

Great way to end 2016 - Happy New Year


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## pokerjoke (Dec 31, 2016)

Slime said:



			You should want them to lose .................. you should *ALWAYS* want them to lose!
		
Click to expand...

Always but felt City were poor and so it has been proven.


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## sawtooth (Dec 31, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That will do nicely :whoo:

Great way to end 2016 - Happy New Year
		
Click to expand...

You didn't really need to wait until the final whistle to celebrate LP,  the result was safe a long time ago.

 Abject performance by City, they look so disjointed and only 1 tame effort to show for their efforts.


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## chrisd (Dec 31, 2016)

Pep to Swansea?


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## anotherdouble (Dec 31, 2016)

I still do not get what managers see in Sterling, I just don't see it


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## sawtooth (Dec 31, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			I still do not get what managers see in Sterling, I just don't see it
		
Click to expand...

and Stones.


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## garyinderry (Dec 31, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			I still do not get what managers see in Sterling, I just don't see it
		
Click to expand...

Walcott mkII


Speed merchant with very little else.  Brutal shooting.


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## anotherdouble (Dec 31, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			and Stones.
		
Click to expand...

I have been saying that forb18 months to a mate who rates him. Another who's not for me


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 31, 2016)

That's 90 minutes of my life I've just wasted and won't get back.

Great goal fit to win any match. Just a shame it was wasted on that load of dross.

Don't think I have ever seen so many misplaced passes in a game at that level. That ineptitude started with City and quickly spread to Liverpool. As is so often the case the matches given the big build up by the media turn out to be rubbish.


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## richart (Dec 31, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			That's 90 minutes of my life I've just wasted and won't get back.

Great goal fit to win any match. Just a shame it was wasted on that load of dross.

Don't think I have ever seen so many misplaced passes in a game at that level. That ineptitude started with City and quickly spread to Liverpool. As is so often the case the matches given the big build up by the media turn out to be rubbish.
		
Click to expand...

 You are lucky. I just watched Brentford and Norwich.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 31, 2016)

richart said:



			You are lucky. I just watched Brentford and Norwich.

Click to expand...

If it was even less inspiring than "The Match of the Day" then you have my deepest sympathy!


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 1, 2017)

Nice to win a game where a nice defensive performance will be ignored. Not a  great  performance, but a great result. Looking like one of chelseas few  challengers....go on offer me a brave bet....


.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 1, 2017)

Sinbad's had a drink as he


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 1, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Nice to win a game where a nice defensive performance will be ignored. Not a  great  performance, but a great result. Looking like one of chelseas few  challengers....go on offer me a brave bet....


.
		
Click to expand...

I'll agree with that.

Liverpool's defensive play was very solid and overall they were the only team that was going to win the match. But after about 30 mins the attacking/constructive play become pretty well as poor as City.

Hence my remarks that as a spectacle to the neutral it was something of a disappointment.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jan 1, 2017)

Just lke a score card, how you got the ball into the hole doesn't matter, its the final number that counts. It's 3 points from a difficult and much anticipated fixture, thats all that matters.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 1, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Just lke a score card, how you got the ball into the hole doesn't matter, its the final number that counts. It's 3 points from a difficult and much anticipated fixture, thats all that matters.
		
Click to expand...

I agree that if I were a Liverpool fan that is exactly how I would feel.

My point was more about the media hype before the game which led to much anticipation but the game itself did not live up to that build up.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 1, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Just lke a score card, how you got the ball into the hole doesn't matter, its the final number that counts. It's 3 points from a difficult and much anticipated fixture, thats all that matters.
		
Click to expand...

Funny that, when Arsenal was winning the PL with 1-0 wins, opposition fans would sing, Boring Boring Arsenal.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			I agree that if I were a Liverpool fan that is exactly how I would feel.

My point was more about the media hype before the game which led to much anticipation but the game itself did not live up to that build up.
		
Click to expand...

Is it not a regular occurrence with games not living up to hype - believe it's just easier to ignore the hype ?

It was an important game with the result being key and Liverpool fans being extremely pleased with the result and I was very pleased with the defensive display especially with the flak they have got from that area. City full of attacking threat were reduced to pretty much zero clearcut chances. Where as we still created a good number chances that on another day could have had the score up to 3


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## Papas1982 (Jan 1, 2017)

Te biggest thing for me during the game was that Liverpool had the one real moment of class. 

The rest was was pretty poor from both. It was good for Liverpool to keep a clean sheet, but I'd be interested to see the passing stats in the attacking third. It seemed to me that on every occasion either team was about to have a decent chance, the final pass was lacking. 

Whether thats good defending im not so sure. But as has been mentioned on many times before. And the end of the season, the name goes on the trophy, nit the level of performance in each game. All champions win ugly at some point.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 1, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Te biggest thing for me during the game was that Liverpool had the one real moment of class. 

The rest was was pretty poor from both. It was good for Liverpool to keep a clean sheet, but I'd be interested to see the passing stats in the attacking third. It seemed to me that on every occasion either team was about to have a decent chance, the final pass was lacking. 

Whether thats good defending im not so sure. But as has been mentioned on many times before. And the end of the season, the name goes on the trophy, nit the level of performance in each game. All champions win ugly at some point.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on, let's not get carried away with some how making out it was a tactical plan, 1-0 for either team would've been a great result, but neither set of fans would be happy (if they were honest) if they played that way for the rest of the season.
3 points off main rivals is massive.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 1, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Spot on, let's not get carried away with some how making out it was a tactical plan, 1-0 for either team would've been a great result, but neither set of fans would be happy (if they were honest) if they played that way for the rest of the season.
3 points off main rivals is massive.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly! 
but we all do it. A few weeks ago when we played you last I was ready to say haha to koeman, just about held my time hue and it's lucky I did as we've been a shambles since!

wanna trade him back for Puel in the summer?


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 1, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Where as we still created a good number chances that on another day could have had the score up to 3
		
Click to expand...


What?

Only one effort on target in 90 mins and only five attempts in total. A solid display defensively but aside from a terrific counter-attack goal with a great finish neither side looked threatening.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 1, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Exactly! 
but we all do it. A few weeks ago when we played you last I was ready to say haha to koeman, just about held my time hue and it's lucky I did as we've been a shambles since!

wanna trade him back for Puel in the summer?
		
Click to expand...

No thanks mate, he doesn't look happy though, I think it's a bigger re-build job than some realised.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			What?

Only one effort on target in 90 mins and only five attempts in total. A solid display defensively but aside from a terrific counter-attack goal with a great finish neither side looked threatening.
		
Click to expand...

Well you had Firmino through from a great ball from Milner - poor touch 

Then you had Lallana and Firmino through with a poor timed ball 

Then Mane , Firmino and Origi through but the ball was just a touch heavy 

Origi then created himself a great chance but delayed too long 

So as I said - on another day with the same level of execution that we have shown over the last couple weeks it could have been more but alas it didnt matter - it was three points in the bag and we keep moving on and I'll take those three points every week :whoo:


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 1, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Spot on, let's not get carried away with some how making out it was a tactical plan, 1-0 for either team would've been a great result, but neither set of fans would be happy (if they were honest) if they played that way for the rest of the season.
3 points off main rivals is massive.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly! 
but we all do it. A few weeks ago when we played you last I was ready to say haha to koeman, just about held my time hue and it's lucky I did as we've been a shambles since!

wanna trade him back for Puel in the summer?


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 1, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			No thanks mate, he doesn't look happy though, I think it's a bigger re-build job than some realised.
		
Click to expand...

Its ok thiugh as you've got a billionaire owner.....

50m for Virgil latest newspaper talk. With greatest respect I think he'll be at a bugger club than both ours next summer.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 1, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well you had Firmino through from a great ball from Milner - poor touch 

Then you had Lallana and Firmino through with a poor timed ball 

Then Mane , Firmino and Origi through but the ball was just a touch heavy 

Origi then created himself a great chance but delayed too long 

So as I said - on another day with the same level of execution that we have shown over the last couple weeks it could have been more but alas it didnt matter - it was three points in the bag and we keep moving on and I'll take those three points every week :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

So that's one actual chance and a goal. Just as all have said. 

The fact that your players mistimed passes and made poor choices doesn't mean it was anywhere close to being your 2nd or third goal. 

If you'd missed a sitter, hit woodwork or keeper pulled of worldies then maybe you could claim you could have more. 

You got the the three points which is great, but if you're gonna say you could have scored more if you'd attacked like previous weeks  then it's just as likely you could have conceded more if you'd defended like previous weeks too.....


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jan 1, 2017)

It is interesting that after a match involving 2nd and 3rd in the Premiership that there are moans of "only 1 goal". It just goes to show how and where Klopp and Pepe have taken their teams as regards goals scored.
It has been one of the best first halves of the Premiership I have seen, as regards number of goals scored.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 1, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			It is interesting that after a match involving 2nd and 3rd in the Premiership that there are moans of "only 1 goal". It just goes to show how and where Klopp and Pepe have taken their teams as regards goals scored.
It has been one of the best first halves of the Premiership I have seen, as regards number of goals scored.
		
Click to expand...

TBH everybody has agreed it was a great 3 points for LPool, nobody on here has mentioned "only 1 goal" the negative comments have all been about the lack of quality from both sides, even as a blue I can admit your attacking play has been good to watch and yesterday both teams made more mistakes in that game than they've probably made all season, unfortunately games between the teams at the top can sometimes be a damp squib as so much is riding on it and all the record books will show is the result.


----------



## Tarkus1212 (Jan 1, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Its ok thiugh as you've got a billionaire owner.....

50m for Virgil latest newspaper talk. With greatest respect I think he'll be at a *bugger *club than both ours next summer.
		
Click to expand...

That'll be Arsenal then?


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 1, 2017)

Tarkus1212 said:



			That'll be Arsenal then? 

Click to expand...

No comment.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 1, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Spot on, let's not get carried away with some how making out it was a tactical plan, 1-0 for either team would've been a great result, but neither set of fans would be happy (if they were honest) if they played that way for the rest of the season.
3 points off main rivals is massive.
		
Click to expand...


Both teams would have took 1-0 before the game and I as a Utd supporter would take 1-0 against the teams above us right now playing ugly.
At the end of the season its all about positions not performances.
Liverpool never looked like losing the game so perhaps tactics were spot on.
Yes the quality was not as good as the previous game against Stoke but on many occasions this year they have been hence their position.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 1, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Both teams would have took 1-0 before the game and I as a Utd supporter would take 1-0 against the teams above us right now playing ugly.
At the end of the season its all about positions not performances.
Liverpool never looked like losing the game so perhaps tactics were spot on.
Yes the quality was not as good as the previous game against Stoke but on many occasions this year they have been hence their position.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed Tony, except for the tactics bit, that's only their 2nd 1-0 win in 2016, the mistakes/mis-controls from both sides was something we've not seen from them this season and no manager in the world can call that tactical.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 1, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Both teams would have took 1-0 before the game and I as a Utd supporter would take 1-0 against the teams above us right now playing ugly.
At the end of the season its all about positions not performances.
Liverpool never looked like losing the game so perhaps tactics were spot on.
Yes the quality was not as good as the previous game against Stoke but on many occasions this year they have been hence their position.
		
Click to expand...

When even souness admits the result wasn't a tactical result I think it's fair to say that all agree the result is all that matters. 

But the performce wasn't IMO a masterclass, it was a poor game (quality wise) but important for pool in their quest for second.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 1, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Agreed Tony, except for the tactics bit, that's only their 2nd 1-0 win in 2016, the mistakes/mis-controls from both sides was something we've not seen from them this season and no manager in the world can call that tactical.
		
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Sometimes you have to look deeper to see something,one thing that was picked up by Hoddle was how Milner was pushed right up on Sterling so Sterling could not run at him as he is much faster and it really took Sterling out of the game,and as Milner is also good going the other way and Sterling cant defend it worked.

Keeping City quiet and reducing them to scraps tells me tactics all over the park were working.
Liverpool press high and have done all season and even very good players are less effective in small spaces.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 1, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Sometimes you have to look deeper to see something,one thing that was picked up by Hoddle was how Milner was pushed right up on Sterling so Sterling could not run at him as he is much faster and it really took Sterling out of the game,and as Milner is also good going the other way and Sterling cant defend it worked.

Keeping City quiet and reducing them to scraps tells me tactics all over the park were working.
Liverpool press high and have done all season and even very good players are less effective in small spaces.
		
Click to expand...

No doubt both teams had a game plan and somethings worked really well, it was the level of bad passes and mis controls by both teams surprised me, we all agree the only stat that counts is the score line, but to see LPool create such few chances and as Mickie put only one on target in 90 minutes at home was surprising imo, like you I had LPool favourites before the game and that was based on how good they've been so far.


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## sawtooth (Jan 1, 2017)

Nice second goal there from Spurs.

Superb cross on half volley and great finish from Kane.


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## Fish (Jan 1, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Looking like one of chelseas few  challengers....go on offer me a brave bet.... .
		
Click to expand...

Looking at clubs with momentum, strength in depth and more convincing than others in current false positions. I think it will be a London 1 & 2 and Arsenal not in the top 4 &#128540;&#128526;


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## Fish (Jan 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Nice second goal there from Spurs.

Superb cross on half volley and great finish from Kane.
		
Click to expand...

Pressures on &#128540;

Tonight Mathew I'm going to be an EAGLE &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## sawtooth (Jan 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			Pressures on &#128540;

Tonight Mathew I'm going to be an EAGLE &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;
		
Click to expand...

Pressure was always on Fish. If I remember correctly you called me a name for saying that Spurs and Utd were still very much in the race  a few weeks ago.


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## davemc1 (Jan 1, 2017)

How bad are watford


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## Piece (Jan 1, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			How bad are watford 

Click to expand...

Very poor, I agree. Quite a few first teamers out, but we should have the ability to pass the ball 

4-3 win? :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			Looking at clubs with momentum, strength in depth and more convincing than others in current false positions. I think it will be a London 1 & 2 and Arsenal not in the top 4 &#128540;&#128526;
		
Click to expand...

Top three clubs in Regards form 

Chelsea
Man Utd
Liverpool 

Teams missing big players at the moment yet still winning - Liverpool 

I'm guessing you keep dismissing Liverpool in some hope it might come true - yet we keep on staying there. Won't take much for that small gap between Liverpool and Chelsea to disappear :whoo:


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## Fish (Jan 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Pressure was always on Fish. If I remember correctly you called me a name for saying that Spurs and Utd were still very much in the race  a few weeks ago.
		
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I think you'll find that the last league position I posted actually had Utd in 3rd and I've always said that if Utd and/or Spurs pushed themselves into the top 4 it would be at the expense of Arsenal &/or Liverpool, and that's still possible going on 'performances' !

Watford are poor but Spurs are playing with a purpose and look hungry & clinical, Ali is turning every 50/50 into a 60/40 ball and they are clearly putting down a marker and displaying far more desire for a top 4 spot than I've seen from Arsenal. 

,I doubt we'll see the same kind of performance later and we'll probably be subjected to more mediocre football from the gurners and more whining from Wenger!


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## sawtooth (Jan 1, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Top three clubs in Regards form 

Chelsea
Man Utd
Liverpool 

Teams missing big players at the moment yet still winning - Liverpool 

I'm guessing you keep dismissing Liverpool in some hope it might come true - yet we keep on staying there. Won't take much for that small gap between Liverpool and Chelsea to disappear :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool have never won the PL so the pressure will also be a factor in the closing stages.

If it comes down to a 2 horse race between Chelsea and Liverpool in the title run in I would fancy Chelsea. 

But with half a season yet to go anything can happen.


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## Fish (Jan 1, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Top three clubs in Regards form 

Chelsea
Man Utd
Liverpool 

Teams missing big players at the moment yet still winning - Liverpool 

I'm guessing you keep dismissing Liverpool in some hope it might come true - yet we keep on staying there. Won't take much for that small gap between Liverpool and Chelsea to disappear :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

I'm dismissing Liverpool because your not good enough irrelevant of current results to go the distance imo, you huff & puff and will run out of steam, you have an easy fixture against Sunderland next but we have Spurs away, but then I expect us to put more distance between us and whoever is fighting below us for the scraps. 

10 points between 4th and top, I think that's a lot but what I think could be key to some positions below us will be Utd's poor goal difference.


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## Hobbit (Jan 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Liverpool have never won the PL so the pressure will also be a factor in the closing stages.

If it comes down to a 2 horse race between Chelsea and Liverpool in the title run in I would fancy Chelsea. 

But with half a season yet to go anything can happen.
		
Click to expand...

I think it is already a 2 horse race between Chelsea and Liverpool. Chelsea are looking invincible, and Liverpool are starting to look like a real class act. 

City are looking awful, and need a major injection of something. Arsenal are running to their usual form and will be in the mix for the other two spots but I can't see them getting second this season.

Tottenham, after a poor start, are coming on strongly. Utd, I'm not convinced they've really found the missing spark yet. Yesterday's result against Boro wasn't that good in terms of play. Boro rarely look like winning, and a team of Utd's supposed class shouldn't have been struggling for the win, especially at home.

Chelsea
Liverpool
Tottenham
Arsenal
City
Utd.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			I'm dismissing Liverpool because your not good enough irrelevant of current results to go the distance imo, you huff & puff and will run out of steam, you have an easy fixture against Sunderland next but we have Spurs away, but then I expect us to put more distance between us and whoever is fighting below us for the scraps. 

10 points between 4th and top, I think that's a lot but what I think could be key to some positions below us will be Utd's poor goal difference.
		
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Been good enough to beat so far - Arsenal , Chelsea and City - with two of those games away meaning that Arsenal and Chelsea have to come to Anfield where we haven't lost for nearly 12 months. People keep saying we will "run out of steam" yet doesn't seem to be happening - no European football and some players coming back from injury will help keep that going.

Chelsea got some big games coming up after a decent run - a couple of defeats and it all changes a defeat to Spurs then get nothing from the visit to Anfield and the gap disappears to zero. 

Chelsea have the upper hand at the moment but lots of games to go and certainly more twists yet .


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 1, 2017)

It's like the Brenda era all over again :whoo::rofl:


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## Fish (Jan 1, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			I think it is already a 2 horse race between Chelsea and Liverpool. Chelsea are looking invincible, and Liverpool are starting to look like a real class act. 

City are looking awful, and need a major injection of something. Arsenal are running to their usual form and will be in the mix for the other two spots but I can't see them getting second this season.

Tottenham, after a poor start, are coming on strongly. Utd, I'm not convinced they've really found the missing spark yet. Yesterday's result against Boro wasn't that good in terms of play. Boro rarely look like winning, and a team of Utd's supposed class shouldn't have been struggling for the win, especially at home.

Chelsea
Liverpool
Tottenham
Arsenal
City
Utd.
		
Click to expand...

I think it could end up 

Chelsea
Tottenham
City (goal difference on Utd)
United 
Liverpool
Arsenal

I think City have too much quality to fall away and will sort themselves out at the same time L'pool crash & burn &#128540;


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## sawtooth (Jan 1, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Been good enough to beat so far - Arsenal , Chelsea and City - with two of those games away meaning that Arsenal and Chelsea have to come to Anfield where we haven't lost for nearly 12 months. People keep saying we will "run out of steam" yet doesn't seem to be happening - no European football and some players coming back from injury will help keep that going.

Chelsea got some big games coming up after a decent run - a couple of defeats and it all changes a defeat to Spurs then get nothing from the visit to Anfield and the gap disappears to zero. 

Chelsea have the upper hand at the moment but lots of games to go and certainly more twists yet .
		
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But season is young and it will only take losing a couple of players together for cracks to appear.

Admittedly Liverpool have coped admirably without Coutinho so far but it will be a real test if Lallana now gets injured especially when Mane disappears for a few weeks.
Most top teams can manage losing a star player but usually suffer if that becomes 2-3 at once.

That's part of the reason for Leicester winning title last season. Their core 11-13 players were available for almost the whole season. 

Chelsea and Liverpool have a better chance of emulating Leicester in that respect due to no European football but there are no guarantees.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 1, 2017)

Lucas leaving Liverpool after 10 years service off to Inter quite surprising as they have a small squad anyways.

Any rumours of any new arrivals?


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## Papas1982 (Jan 1, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Lucas leaving Liverpool after 10 years service off to Inter quite surprising as they have a small squad anyways.

Any rumours of any new arrivals?
		
Click to expand...

their scouting portfolio was leaked last week......

https://southamptonfc.com/first-team


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			But season is young and it will only take losing a couple of players together for cracks to appear.

Admittedly Liverpool have coped admirably without Coutinho so far but it will be a real test if Lallana now gets injured especially when Mane disappears for a few weeks.
Most top teams can manage losing a star player but usually suffer if that becomes 2-3 at once.

That's part of the reason for Leicester winning title last season. Their core 11-13 players were available for almost the whole season. 

Chelsea and Liverpool have a better chance of emulating Leicester in that respect due to no European football but there are no guarantees.
		
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We have also been without Matip our best CB for the best three weeks as well and he is due to come back - we have also been without Lallana ( after England games ) , Can , Wjinaldum , Lovren at stages throughout the season and coped with it. We also have some youngsters that have shown they are comfortable if they are needed. Being without Matip and Coutinho for the past 4/5 weeks has been a blow but we have still kept the wins coming. Mane going will be a blow but at the same time Coutinho will be back and Sturridge up to strength. 

The season is young and Klopp may well dip into the market to get another young player into the team 

Even if we don't win this season - it won't take Klopp long with the foundation he is building.


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## fundy (Jan 1, 2017)

put the rod away Fish lol


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## Papas1982 (Jan 1, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			We have also been without Matip our best CB for the best three weeks as well and he is due to come back - we have also been without Lallana ( after England games ) , Can , Wjinaldum , Lovren at stages throughout the season and coped with it. We also have some youngsters that have shown they are comfortable if they are needed. Being without Matip and Coutinho for the past 4/5 weeks has been a blow but we have still kept the wins coming. Mane going will be a blow but at the same time Coutinho will be back and Sturridge up to strength. 

The season is young and Klopp may well dip into the market to get another young player into the team 

*Even if we don't win this season - it won't take Klopp long with the foundation he is building.*

Click to expand...

*
*
Well that's it folks. 

We may may as well give up watching. Liverpool will win the league......

Eventually.......


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## Fish (Jan 1, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			[/B]
Well that's it folks. 

We may may as well give up watching. Liverpool will win the league......

Eventually.......
		
Click to expand...

Obviously nobody else is building and we're all standing still whilst this imaginary empire is being built &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Fish (Jan 1, 2017)

fundy said:



			put the rod away Fish lol
		
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I've tried the float, I'm going for a ledger with a swimfeeder full of pinkies now &#128540;


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			[/B]
Well that's it folks. 

We may may as well give up watching. Liverpool will win the league......

Eventually.......
		
Click to expand...

How's your manager getting on ?

Still keeping the club as a feeder club for the big teams ?


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## sawtooth (Jan 1, 2017)

Giroud my word!

I think I've just witnessed one of the best goals ever. Great build up and what a finish.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 1, 2017)

Tek a bow Giroud.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Giroud my word!

I think I've just witnessed one of the best goals ever. Great build up and what a finish.
		
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It's a quality finish but best goals ever ? Really ?


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## Fish (Jan 1, 2017)

It's a good instinctive goal/finish but what an exaggeration to say best goal ever &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Papas1982 (Jan 1, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How's your manager getting on ?Still keeping the club as a feeder club for the big teams ?
		
Click to expand...

Oh dear. Want some help putting the toys back.....As a REALISTIC fan I'm actually quite happy. We will have our ups and downs. But just enjoy going to the odd game and enjoy the season as it goes.


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## sawtooth (Jan 1, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's a quality finish but best goals ever ? Really ?
		
Click to expand...

One of them, certainly.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 1, 2017)

Arsenal totally in control against a poor side, 
Giroud's goal was superb, great breakaway, quick passing, brilliant finish.

Can't see past Chelsea winning the league, still a lot of twists n turns to go, good to see a few teams in and around it.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 1, 2017)

Fantastic goal,but not one of the best ever imo. 

But it's all about opinions so not really a right or wrong.


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## fundy (Jan 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			I've tried the float, I'm going for a ledger with a swimfeeder full of pinkies now &#128540;
		
Click to expand...

surely you're bored catching the same ones then throwing them back again and again


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## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Spot on, let's not get carried away with some how making out it was a tactical plan, 1-0 for either team would've been a great result, but neither set of fans would be happy (if they were honest) if they played that way for the rest of the season.
3 points off main rivals is massive.
		
Click to expand...

I'd accept playing like that if it guaranteed winning. We've seen other teams play great stuff over the course of a season and win nothing.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 1, 2017)

Given the hyperbole over the Mikhitaryian effort, then this one was definitely better and certainly a contender for goal of the season. As for one of the best ever, it would get into a PL top 20 but not an all time top 20. Good, exceptionally good, but I've seen better over the years, some of which never got captured on TV (back in the 80's when there wasn't wall to wall coverage across all the divisions)


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## Fish (Jan 1, 2017)

fundy said:



			surely you're bored catching the same ones then throwing them back again and again 

Click to expand...

I'm keeping the next ones and having them stuffed & mounted &#128540;


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			One of them, certainly.
		
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong it was a quality finish but 5 mins before highlights the issue with Giroud - the simplist of chances , those are the ones a top striker needs to put away and Giroud just doesn't


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## sawtooth (Jan 1, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Given the hyperbole over the Mikhitaryian effort, then this one was definitely better and certainly a contender for goal of the season. As for one of the best ever, it would get into a PL top 20 but not an all time top 20. Good, exceptionally good, but I've seen better over the years, some of which never got captured on TV (back in the 80's when there wasn't wall to wall coverage across all the divisions)
		
Click to expand...

Even if you said it made the top 500 of all time,  by definition it's one of the best goals ever.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			One of them, certainly.
		
Click to expand...

Really? 

The ball was behind him and I don't think he actually meant to put it in the way it went in, I thought it looked a great goal but iy was more luck than skill.

Martin Tyler loves to over exaggerate  though.


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## Qwerty (Jan 1, 2017)

It was pretty to watch, something a little different but lets be honest it was an instinctive albeit athletic waft of the leg that got lucky.


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## sawtooth (Jan 1, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Really? 

The ball was behind him and I don't think he actually meant to put it in the way it went in, I thought it looked a great goal but iy was more luck than skill.

Martin Tyler loves to over exaggerate  though.
		
Click to expand...

Yes really, if it was a Liverpool player Souness and Carragher wouldn't be playing it down like they are.

Like I said it's one of the best not THE best.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yes really, if it was a Liverpool player Souness and Carragher wouldn't be playing it down like they are.

Like I said it's one of the best not THE best.
		
Click to expand...

If it was a Liverpool player then it would've been the best ever ever goal scored obviously


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## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2017)

Qwerty said:



			It was pretty to watch, something a little different but lets be honest it was an instinctive albeit athletic waft of the leg that got lucky.
		
Click to expand...

Here here!!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 1, 2017)

Qwerty said:



			It was pretty to watch, something a little different but lets be honest it was an instinctive albeit athletic waft of the leg that got lucky.
		
Click to expand...

That's basically how he described it, it was behind him and he tried to direct it goalwards, still superb to watch.


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## sawtooth (Jan 1, 2017)

Qwerty said:



			It was pretty to watch, something a little different but lets be honest it was an instinctive albeit athletic waft of the leg that got lucky.
		
Click to expand...

Like a hole in one I guess or holing a pitch from 100yds.

You put a good swing on it and you intend to hole it or score but you need a bit of luck to how (if) it goes in.

No one can deny Giroud tried to score but to put it where he did? Off the bar and just out of reach from the GK? That was lucky.


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yes really, if it was a Liverpool player Souness and Carragher wouldn't be playing it down like they are.

Like I said it's one of the best not THE best.
		
Click to expand...

Some bloke called Giroud reckoned it was lucky, but what would he know?


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## Qwerty (Jan 1, 2017)

I suppose it all depends what you like to see In a goal, if your looking at pure skill, poise and 100% intent surely there's been much better goals from other Arsenal players over the last 20 yrs, Theres certainly a lot to go at.

Premier league goals - I'd have this at No1

[video=youtube_share;KTsq5ZlTTeQ]https://youtu.be/KTsq5ZlTTeQ[/video]


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## sawtooth (Jan 1, 2017)

Blue in Munich said:



			Some bloke called Giroud reckoned it was lucky, but what would he know? 

Click to expand...

Keep up.

Of course with a shot like that there is always an element of luck.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Keep up.

Of course with a shot like that there is always an element of luck.
		
Click to expand...

To be classed as one of the best goals then it should be about the skill and ability used to score, not luck in my opinion.


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## sawtooth (Jan 1, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			To be classed as one of the best goals then it should be about the skill and ability used to score, not luck in my opinion.
		
Click to expand...

And I respect your opinion.


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## USER1999 (Jan 1, 2017)

Didnt Rooneys bicycled shin poke get goal of the season a few years ago? Of course he meant to shin it, its part of the skill set. Or not.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think it could end up 

Chelsea
Tottenham
City (goal difference on Utd)
United 
Liverpool
Arsenal

I think City have too much quality to fall away and will sort themselves out at the same time L'pool crash & burn ï˜œ
		
Click to expand...

Â£20 bet on it?

Liverpool to finish in the top four for me. Game?

Hope your hungry for a bet again, after last year's hibernation.:rofl:


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## Fish (Jan 1, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Â£20 bet on it?

Liverpool to finish in the top four for me. Game?

Hope your hungry for a bet again, after last year's hibernation.:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

You're on ðŸ‘


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			You're on &#62541;
		
Click to expand...

Good stuff.:thup:


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## Fish (Jan 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Keep up.

Of course with a shot like that there is always an element of luck.
		
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It's not even a shot! It was a posh instinctive cow kick &#128514;&#128514; that got lucky&#128540;


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## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Good stuff.:thup:
		
Click to expand...

I hope you haven't jinxed us now


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 1, 2017)

Giroud's goal.

Wow, great move and a cracking finish, and it was onside.

One of the best in the prem.:thup:


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## Hobbit (Jan 1, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Giroud's goal.

Wow, great move and a cracking finish, and it was onside.

One of the best in the prem.:thup:
		
Click to expand...

Stay off the juice!

It might of been a hole in one but it was a shank off a tree that hit a rake in a bunker before trickling into the hole


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 1, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Stay off the juice!

It might of been a hole in one but it was a shank off a tree that hit a rake in a bunker before trickling into the hole
		
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Nah, he meant it.


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## sawtooth (Jan 1, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Nah, he meant it.
		
Click to expand...

No he meant to clear it.


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## Fish (Jan 2, 2017)

Not sure what Boro fans are moaning about, their players are diving and falling down far too easily, maybe if they had stabilisers they'd play better &#129300;&#128540;


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## pokerjoke (Jan 2, 2017)

Fish said:



			Not sure what Boro fans are moaning about, their players are diving and falling down far too easily, maybe if they had stabilisers they'd play better &#129300;&#128540;
		
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Marhez just fell over when the ball hit him on his hands,football has gone so soft its ridiculous


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## Hobbit (Jan 2, 2017)

Fish said:



			Not sure what Boro fans are moaning about, their players are diving and falling down far too easily, maybe if they had stabilisers they'd play better &#27138;&#63004;
		
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Most of them got Diego Costa DVD's for Xmas but have not watched the goal scoring bits yet


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## freddielong (Jan 2, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			To be classed as one of the best goals then it should be about the skill and ability used to score, not luck in my opinion.
		
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As Chris Sutton said last night there is an element of luck in all goals.


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## Fish (Jan 2, 2017)

Sunderland have a penalty decision turned down and then L'pol score &#128545;


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## Fish (Jan 2, 2017)

Couldn't turn that one down, 2-2 &#128540;  Come on you Macems &#128077;

That should be a 2nd yellow for Llanana, blatant handball at half time and now complains about the pen! 

Edgy end to this match.


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## Slime (Jan 2, 2017)

Fish said:



			Couldn't turn that one down, 2-2 &#63004;  Come on you Macems &#62541;

That should be a 2nd yellow for Llanana, blatant handball at half time and now complains about the pen! 

Edgy end to this match.
		
Click to expand...

............ and it looks like Sturridge is broken again!
He just can't buy any luck, poor bugger.


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## Fish (Jan 2, 2017)

&#128079;&#128079;&#128079;&#128079; Well done Sunderland. Teams fighting for survival won't always be an easy touch, that's a huge point for them and got to be 2 lost for L'pool &#128526;


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## fundy (Jan 2, 2017)

keep throwing more bait into the water Fishy


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 2, 2017)

Good win for Everton and really good to see Tom Davies make his debut. Another graduate of the youth system making it through to the 1st team. 

Whilst not in great form we are getting results and are leading the 2nd division, league within a league. Currently a battle between ourselves and West Brom for 7th. A lot of teams that should be fighting in that mini league are under performing this year.


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## Rlburnside (Jan 2, 2017)

Man City struggle for a win, Liverpool drop points same defensive issues as last season, conceded 23 goals already.

Looking good for Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, think these three will finish in top three with Man City in fourth.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Good win for Everton and really good to see Tom Davies make his debut. Another graduate of the youth system making it through to the 1st team. 

Whilst not in great form we are getting results and are leading the 2nd division, league within a league. Currently a battle between ourselves and West Brom for 7th. A lot of teams that should be fighting in that mini league are under performing this year.
		
Click to expand...

1st half wasn't too good, passes going a stray etc, 1st goal settled them and could've had a couple more, Lukaku's was a crackin finish.
Close the gap on our lovable neighbours by 2 points :whoo:


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## Fish (Jan 2, 2017)

fundy said:



			keep throwing more bait into the water Fishy 

Click to expand...

I hear a bit of aniseed mixed in gets 'em going &#128540;


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			1st half wasn't too good, passes going a stray etc, 1st goal settled them and could've had a couple more, Lukaku's was a crackin finish.
Close the gap on our lovable neighbours by 2 points :whoo:
		
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How did you see it? I followed it on the BBC website and I could fathom the first half was a stinker.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2017)

Disappointing to drop points - simple mistakes don't help plus keeper having a cracking game - can't win them all. Still in our best position in the league at this time of year for a decade and still a long way to go - 2nd in the league , pretty good right now.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How did you see it? I followed it on the BBC website and I could fathom the first half was a stinker.
		
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Kodi mate, haven't missed a game all season, most from the comfort of my armchair&#128515;


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 2, 2017)

Back to work tomorrow 
Newcastle screw my Acca up :angry:

But a blooming big heart warming smile from the stadium of light:whoo: :whoo:

Splendid :clap:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2017)

How brilliant is this 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38490020

Well done BBC and MOTD


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## sawtooth (Jan 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Disappointing to drop points - simple mistakes don't help plus keeper having a cracking game - can't win them. Still in our best position in the league at this time of year for a decade and still a long way to go - 2nd in the league , pretty good right now.
		
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Liverpool were probably a bit leggy after a run of games with their high intensity game. Well done to Sunderland to come back twice.

Looks like a Sturridge is injured again, and Mane off now for a few weeks as well.

Will be a big test for Klopp in the coming weeks.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How brilliant is this 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38490020

Well done BBC and MOTD
		
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It's great that football can put a smile on his little  face.


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## upsidedown (Jan 2, 2017)

Terrible decision from ref there


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## Kellfire (Jan 2, 2017)

Mike Dean with a huge mistake there. Never a red card, two players committed to winning a 50/50 and Jones just got there first. Feghouli made sure to keep his studs out of it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2017)

Once again Mike Dean shows that beneath all his eccentric actions on the pitch he is a shocking ref - that is a poor poor decision


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## chrisd (Jan 2, 2017)

Quite the worst ref in the PL


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## Hobbit (Jan 2, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			.

Looks like a Sturridge is injured again, and Mane off now for a few weeks as well.
		
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Stolen from FB; "it's a shame to see a professional hospital patient like Sturridge have his career blighted by football."


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## Kellfire (Jan 2, 2017)

The logic of booing Jones though...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 2, 2017)

Mike Dean gets one look at it from his angle in real time, Jones is writhing around and 7 Man Utd players go running in, some from over 20yds and replays show it's harsh, let's blame the Ref though after all he should be perfect!


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## chrisd (Jan 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Mike Dean gets one look at it from his angle in real time, Jones is writhing around and 7 Man Utd players go running in, some from over 20yds and replays show it's harsh, let's blame the Ref though after all he should be perfect!
		
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But he could only see what actually happened, the writhing round and Man United  players shouldn't influence his decision and he couldn't  have seen anything that warranted a red card.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2017)

https://mobile.twitter.com/BigSportGB/status/815974428408446976

For once Garth Crooks has it spot on


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## Fish (Jan 2, 2017)

&#128514;&#128514;&#128514; how did they both miss &#128540;&#128540;


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## sawtooth (Jan 2, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Stolen from FB; "it's a shame to see a professional hospital patient like Sturridge have his career blighted by football."
		
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&#128567;

Didn't Sturridge just come back from injury last week? Might have come back to soon who knows.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 2, 2017)

chrisd said:



			But he could only see what actually happened, the writhing round and Man United  players shouldn't influence his decision and he couldn't  have seen anything that warranted a red card.
		
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From his angle? He obviously thought he'd lost control and dived in.


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## Old Skier (Jan 2, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			The logic of booing Jones though...
		
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One of many professional cheats might have something to do with it.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 2, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Mike Dean with a huge mistake there. Never a red card, two players committed to winning a 50/50 and Jones just got there first. Feghouli made sure to keep his studs out of it.
		
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Totally agree and he allowed himself to be swayed by the United players crowding in. A good old fashioned 50/50 challenge and shame that the United player was writhing one minute and then back playing the ball the next. Dean looks like he's getting a bit card happy now. Will he even it up?


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## Fish (Jan 2, 2017)

Old Skier said:



			One of many professional cheats might have something to do with iron.
		
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Is that 'any old iron' &#128540;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://mobile.twitter.com/BigSportGB/status/815974428408446976

For once Garth Crooks has it spot on
		
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From Oct 2015


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			From Oct 2015
		
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And ? He has it spot on about Mike Dean - wants to be the star of the show - shocking ref


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 2, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Stolen from FB; "it's a shame to see a professional hospital patient like Sturridge have his career blighted by football."
		
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Makes you wonder if Liverpool football club are handling the player correctly.


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## Old Skier (Jan 2, 2017)

Fish said:



			Is that 'any old iron' &#128540;
		
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Tankie fingers


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And ? He has it spot on about Mike Dean - wants to be the star of the show - shocking ref
		
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It gets brought up every time Dean is involved in a controversial decision that comment was relevant to that game and on Refs Stats Dean is no were near the worst Ref, that goes to John Moss.


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## fundy (Jan 2, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			The logic of booing Jones though...
		
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every reason, clutching a part of his leg that wasnt touched and rolling over 3 times screaming in agony, sums up a lot of whats wrong with football


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## Hobbit (Jan 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Mike Dean gets one look at it from his angle in real time, Jones is writhing around and 7 Man Utd players go running in, some from over 20yds and replays show it's harsh, let's blame the Ref though after all he should be perfect!
		
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He did Boro's last fixture of last season, at home to Brighton. Everything to play for by both teams, lots of intensity and passion. I'd have made him man of the match. He was head and shoulders above any other ref I saw last season.

Did he get this decision wrong? I don't think he did. The West Ham player was off the ground. He has a responsibility to make a safe tackle. How is he doing that when he's lost control off the ball and takes off like that?

Well done Mike Dean.


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## chrisd (Jan 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			From his angle? He obviously thought he'd lost control and dived in.
		
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My understanding is that he is required to give what he sees and not what he thought he saw. I'm no lover of instant live TV replays for refs but this sort of decision starts to sway me


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## sawtooth (Jan 2, 2017)

Ref at fault but really the biggest culprit was Jones. Rolling around like he's been shot. Cheating IMO.


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## sawtooth (Jan 2, 2017)

fundy said:



			every reason, clutching a part of his leg that wasnt touched and rolling over 3 times screaming in agony, sums up a lot of whats wrong with football
		
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When he rolled over he forgot what leg he was supposed to hold.
&#128567;


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## Fish (Jan 2, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			He did Boro's last fixture of last season, at home to Brighton. Everything to play for by both teams, lots of intensity and passion. I'd have made him man of the match. He was head and shoulders above any other ref I saw last season.

Did he get this decision wrong? I don't think he did. The West Ham player was off the ground. He has a responsibility to make a safe tackle. How is he doing that when he's lost control off the ball and takes off like that?

Well done Mike Dean.
		
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I didn't see it live and just saw the replay/s, ok MD doesn't have loads of replays but if he's seen him leave the ground going into the tackle, then he's going to give a red, and rightly so!

 But hey, let the witch hunt continue &#128540;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 2, 2017)

chrisd said:



			My understanding is that he is required to give what he sees and not what he thought he saw. I'm no lover of instant live TV replays for refs but this sort of decision starts to sway me
		
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But he can't win, Barkley should've got a red, slagged off, today, no red, slagged off, Quinn admits Feghouli takes a heavy touch and loses control, how can it then be 50/50, he's dived in, initially it looked worse than the replays and as you say, he makes a call and will be debated relentlessly, will have to wait and see if FA over turn it.


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## Fish (Jan 2, 2017)

What I never like is the pundits saying 'and it's so early in the game' as if to say, get some crunching tackles in early you won't or shouldn't get a red as it's too early &#129300;


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## Kellfire (Jan 2, 2017)

Then Kouyate maybe could have gone and nothing. Poor again.


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## fundy (Jan 2, 2017)

and then Kouyate gets nothing for a horror jump in over the ball lunge


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## sawtooth (Jan 2, 2017)

Fish said:



			What I never like is the pundits saying 'and it's so early in the game' as if to say, get some crunching tackles in early you won't or shouldn't get a red as it's too early &#129300;
		
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I suppose the school of thought is to give players some benefit of doubt for being cold, not being up to the pace of the game and conditions.


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## chrisd (Jan 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			But he can't win, Barkley should've got a red, slagged off, today, no red, slagged off, Quinn admits Feghouli takes a heavy touch and loses control, how can it then be 50/50, he's dived in, initially it looked worse than the replays and as you say, he makes a call and will be debated relentlessly, will have to wait and see if FA over turn it.
		
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I didn't see the Everton game but I've been to many a game where Dean has cowed up and stand by my view that he's one of the worst refs in the PL.


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## fundy (Jan 2, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I suppose the school of thought is to give players some benefit of doubt for being cold, not being up to the pace of the game and conditions.
		
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100k+ a week but give them the benefit of the doubt they havent fully warmed up 15 minutes into a game WALOFS


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## sawtooth (Jan 2, 2017)

fundy said:



			100k+ a week but give them the benefit of the doubt they havent fully warmed up 15 minutes into a game WALOFS
		
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I did say I suppose......maybe it's not.


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## Fish (Jan 2, 2017)

You've got to put them away.


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## Rlburnside (Jan 2, 2017)

Real shame West Ham down to 10 men, they have been playing well of late and I expected them to win tonight, still sticking in and they could well get a draw, wow they just missed a great chance.


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## Slime (Jan 2, 2017)

Fish said:



			You've got to put them away.
		
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Mata just has done :whoo:.


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## Fish (Jan 2, 2017)

Fish said:



			You've got to put them away.
		
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And that's what happens when you don't.


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## Fish (Jan 2, 2017)

Fighting in the stands again, has there ever been a home game without trouble inside &#129300;

Club should be heavily fined or given sanctions.


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## Kellfire (Jan 2, 2017)

Officials having a great game here...


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## Slime (Jan 2, 2017)

Ibraaaaaa.


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## Slime (Jan 2, 2017)

............. I know, I just don't care!


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 2, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Officials having a great game here...
		
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Even Ibra knew he was offside. 
Shocking.


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## sawtooth (Jan 2, 2017)

Another horrendous decision


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 2, 2017)

As the commentator said, he had one against Boro disallowed that shouldn't have been and now he's allowed one that should have been disallowed. But the anti United brigade won't mention the Boro decision but will be all over this one tonight.


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## Rlburnside (Jan 2, 2017)

Hammers don't deserve that, maybe unluckiest team in the league eh Jose


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## Slime (Jan 2, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			As the commentator said, he had one against Boro disallowed that shouldn't have been and now he's allowed one that should have been disallowed. But the anti United brigade won't mention the Boro decision but will be all over this one tonight.
		
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Spot on, obviously .


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 2, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			As the commentator said, he had one against Boro disallowed that shouldn't have been and now he's allowed one that should have been disallowed. But the anti United brigade won't mention the Boro decision but will be all over this one tonight.
		
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Doesn't make it anti Utd if someone slates the officials for having a mare.


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## freddielong (Jan 2, 2017)

In a world of awful referees Mike Dean is king


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## sawtooth (Jan 2, 2017)

freddielong said:



			In a world of awful referees Mike Dean is king
		
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But you wont hear Mourinho say anything bad about the refereeing today.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 2, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			But you wont hear Mourinho say anything bad about the refereeing today.
		
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Same as every other manager in the league.


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## Kellfire (Jan 2, 2017)

Best handball EVER.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 2, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Doesn't make it anti Utd if someone slates the officials for having a mare.
		
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It does when that same person doesn't slate the officials for making a shocking decision that goes against United.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 2, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			It does when that same person doesn't slate the officials for making a shocking decision that goes against United.
		
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Seperate decisions,maybe that same person thought one decision was more blatant than the other &#129300;


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 2, 2017)

freddielong said:



			In a world of awful referees Mike Dean is king
		
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Long live the king. He's not very good. Couldn't even get the offside goal right although you have to ask what the linesman was doing?


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## sawtooth (Jan 2, 2017)

I just saw the Pep interview, what's eating him?


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## Slime (Jan 2, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Long live the king. *He's not very good. Couldn't even get the offside goal right* although you have to ask what the linesman was doing?
		
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As an ex ref, you should know better than most that that's not the ref's call.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 2, 2017)

Not a great performance but will take the win and I do believe its a 6 horse race although imo its Chelsea's to lose.

Shocking performance from the officials and its costing teams and with so much money on the line they need to be better.

Not a red for me although he was out of control but Jones wasn't pulling out either and I hate the rolling around after.

Just watched the UTD players reactions and they were not all at the ref has been suggested I believe Carrick and Valencia said something but it should never had swayed his decision that's what the refs paid for.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 2, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Long live the king. He's not very good. Couldn't even get the offside goal right although you have to ask what the linesman was doing?
		
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I think you have been told already but why would it be the refs decision?

Its the linesman's job to see it and put his flag up to show the ref it was offside and he failed to do so.


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## freddielong (Jan 2, 2017)

Slime said:



			As an ex ref, you should know better than most that that's not the ref's call.
		
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The ref always has the last decision so could have called it without a flag but there are no excuses for the sending off .


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## pokerjoke (Jan 2, 2017)

freddielong said:



			The ref always has the last decision so could have called it without a flag but there are no excuses for the sending off .
		
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I disagree,looking along the line is way easier than head on and its was 100% the linesmans call in that situation imho,the refs whistle goes on the linesmans flag going up.


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## freddielong (Jan 2, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			I disagree,looking along the line is way easier than head on and its was 100% the linesmans call in that situation imho,the refs whistle goes on the linesmans flag going up.
		
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I don't understand what you are disagreeing with all I did was state the fact that the ref always has the last say and doesn't need a flag to make a call.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 2, 2017)

freddielong said:



			The ref always has the last decision so could have called it without a flag but there are no excuses for the sending off .
		
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Are you seriously suggesting that Mike Dean could have given the offside? 




By all means slag him off for the red card but how can he give the offside decision when he's looking at it from perpendicular to the offside line? The linesman has made a horlicks of that decision but to criticise the ref for not giving it is ridiculous.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 2, 2017)

Didn't watch the game but saw a clip of the sending off. I then went out to walk the dog and read a headline of the match afterwards. Have to be honest, I assumed pre dog walk that it was Jones who had been sent off. I thought it was a little harsh but Jones didn't look in control. Now I discover that the West Ham guy was the one sent off. I'll have to see that again as that never registered as an option. I suspect an appeal will go in.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 2, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Not a great performance but will take the win and I do believe its a 6 horse race although imo its Chelsea's to lose.

Shocking performance from the officials and its costing teams and with so much money on the line they need to be better.

Not a red for me although he was out of control but Jones wasn't pulling out either and I hate the rolling around after.

Just watched the UTD players reactions and they were not all at the ref has been suggested I believe Carrick and Valencia said something but it should never had swayed his decision that's what the refs paid for.
		
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I said the Utd players ran, not to the Ref though, some ran to the West Ham player.


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## sawtooth (Jan 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Didn't watch the game but saw a clip of the sending off. I then went out to walk the dog and read a headline of the match afterwards. Have to be honest, I assumed pre dog walk that it was Jones who had been sent off. I thought it was a little harsh but Jones didn't look in control. Now I discover that the West Ham guy was the one sent off. I'll have to see that again as that never registered as an option. I suspect an appeal will go in.
		
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IMO ref was swayed by the OTT reaction by Jones when really he ought to judge on what he saw in the challenge. 

I think "play on" should have been the order of the day, it seems like we cant have a 50/50 challenge for a ball without the ref blowing his whistle and waving a card.

I'm not sure if a lot goes on without us knowing but I would like to see a lot more communication between the ref and the other officials. No harm in asking if the others saw it and what they thought before handing out a card or blowing for a pen. Not sure if the powers that be would consider this to be a weakness or working smarter?

Why cant we hear what they say like in rugby?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 2, 2017)

Slime said:



			As an ex ref, you should know better than most that that's not the ref's call.
		
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And you have to read I asked what his assistant was doing? Should have been an easy decision


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 2, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			IMO ref was swayed by the OTT reaction by Jones when really he ought to judge on what he saw in the challenge. 

I think "play on" should have been the order of the day, it seems like we cant have a 50/50 challenge for a ball without the ref blowing his whistle and waving a card.

I'm not sure if a lot goes on without us knowing but I would like to see a lot more communication between the ref and the other officials. No harm in asking if the others saw it and what they thought before handing out a card or blowing for a pen. Not sure if the powers that be would consider this to be a weakness or working smarter?

Why cant we hear what they say like in rugby?
		
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How can the Ref know if Jones is playing acting or not? even in a fair genuine tackle if someone appears to be hurt, as Jones did, he has to stop the game immediately.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 2, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			IMO ref was swayed by the OTT reaction by Jones when really he ought to judge on what he saw in the challenge. 

I think "play on" should have been the order of the day, it seems like we cant have a 50/50 challenge for a ball without the ref blowing his whistle and waving a card.

I'm not sure if a lot goes on without us knowing but I would like to see a lot more communication between the ref and the other officials. No harm in asking if the others saw it and what they thought before handing out a card or blowing for a pen. Not sure if the powers that be would consider this to be a weakness or working smarter?

Why cant we hear what they say like in rugby?
		
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Whilst I agree that he may have been swayed. A 50/50 tackle doesn't involve one player off the ground and out of control. 

If that hat was done by a stoke player against Sanchez I'd love to see such a reasoned response......


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## sawtooth (Jan 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			How can the Ref know if Jones is playing acting or not? even in a fair genuine tackle if someone appears to be hurt, as Jones did, he has to stop the game immediately.
		
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Yeah OK if he's not sure he stops the game but play on with a drop ball.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 2, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah OK if he's not sure he stops the game but play on with a drop ball.
		
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Yep, agreed.


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## sawtooth (Jan 2, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Whilst I agree that he may have been swayed. A 50/50 tackle doesn't involve one player off the ground and out of control. 

*If that was done by a stoke player against Sanchez I'd love to see such a reasoned response....*..
		
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It didn't look malicious to me, it wouldn't matter who it was. 

I would be equally annoyed at Sanchez for rolling around though. I never like to see that.


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## garyinderry (Jan 2, 2017)

It was still a foul.  Never a red mind you.


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## Slime (Jan 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Didn't watch the game but saw a clip of the sending off. I then went out to walk the dog and read a headline of the match afterwards. Have to be honest, I assumed pre dog walk that it was Jones who had been sent off. I thought it was a little harsh but Jones didn't look in control. *Now I discover that the West Ham guy was the one sent off. I'll have to see that again as that never registered as an option. I suspect an appeal will go in.*

Click to expand...

Why would Jones be sent off, he won the ball before the West Ham player got there?
Oh, and Feghouli was airborne.
I think an appeal would be viewed as frivolous, it would be to me.



sawtooth said:



*It didn't look malicious to me*, it wouldn't matter who it was. 
I would be equally annoyed at Sanchez for rolling around though. I never like to see that.
		
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It doesn't have to be malicious, it just has to be dangerous .................. and the ref thought it was.


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## Old Skier (Jan 2, 2017)

Not a great match for the officials but until something is done about the continued cheating by a large minority of players it makes it harder for the refs.

Getting the offside rule back into something resembling a sensible rule would also help.


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## Slime (Jan 2, 2017)

Old Skier said:



			Not a great match for the officials but until something is done about the continued cheating by *a large minority* of players it makes it harder for the refs.

Getting the offside rule back into something resembling a sensible rule would also help.
		
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Ooops.


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## Old Skier (Jan 2, 2017)

Slime said:



			Ooops.
		
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I was being kind


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 2, 2017)

Do any of us actually know what was the contact between Feghouli and Jones? The television pictures are, to say the least, inconclusive. 

Unless we know it is hard to see how we can assess if the reaction by Jones was OTT.


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## Old Skier (Jan 2, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			Do any of us actually know what was the contact between Feghouli and Jones? The television pictures are, to say the least, inconclusive. 

Unless we know it is hard to see how we can assess if the reaction by Jones was OTT.
		
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Once he was back on the pitch he took off faster than Usan Bolt giving a very good impression that the damage wasn't as terminal as the initial act implied.


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## freddielong (Jan 2, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Are you seriously suggesting that Mike Dean could have given the offside? 

View attachment 21580


By all means slag him off for the red card but how can he give the offside decision when he's looking at it from perpendicular to the offside line? The linesman has made a horlicks of that decision but to criticise the ref for not giving it is ridiculous.
		
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No, just pointing out that although he wasn't at fault he wasn't blameless, it is still his job to get the correct decision.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 2, 2017)

Slime said:



			Why would Jones be sent off, he won the ball before the West Ham player got there?
Oh, and Feghouli was airborne.
I think an appeal would be viewed as frivolous, it would be to me.
		
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I didn't think it was worthy of a red card, incidentally getting the ball is irrelevant if the tackle is still dangerous, but I knew a red had been given. With my brief glance at the incident it was Jones who came across as more reckless in the way he went in so I assumed he had been shown the red.


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## Hobbit (Jan 2, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			Do any of us actually know what was the contact between Feghouli and Jones? The television pictures are, to say the least, inconclusive. 

Unless we know it is hard to see how we can assess if the reaction by Jones was OTT.
		
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Spot on. I dare say most of us have taken a knock on a nerve, and few of us have probably had a full on mistimed tackle where we've thought we've broken our leg. In most instances we will have been bounding around like a new born lamb 5 mins later.

In my opinion, the WH player reacted to losing control. It was an instinctive lunge for the ball, and poorly timed and lacking thought. 

So what did Mike Dean see? He saw a player jumping in, and off the ground. He saw Jones knock the ball away before contact. 1) it was a foul. 2) the player off the ground had little/no control over the tackle. 

It then comes down to interpretations. A) He followed the ball but there was no advantage. B) Blow for the foul. C) Red or yellow.

Even without Jones's pain, real or otherwise, he had to deal with a foul in which a player lunged with an off the ground tackle. For me, its red all day long and twice on Mondays...


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



*How can the Ref know if Jones is playing acting or not?* even in a fair genuine tackle if someone appears to be hurt, as Jones did, he has to stop the game immediately.
		
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I'd suggest by the fact that he's rolling around asa much as he was Paul.  Anytime I've seen someone who was genuinely seriously injured they either don't move much at all or scream & move but on the spot; they don't roll around like Jones did.  And seriously, how hard would he have had to have been kicked to move him that far, especially considering that it would have had to have overcome the momentum he put in?  Jones should be seriously embarrassed when he sees that back.


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## Kellfire (Jan 2, 2017)

Slime said:



			Ooops.
		
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A minority can be large. 49% for example would be a very large minority.


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## Beezerk (Jan 2, 2017)

I think Jones was play acting as he thought he was in for a red card.
Only seen one replay but from that angle it appeared Jones was the one who "dove" in without control.


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 2, 2017)

Why do more referees not do what Anthony Taylor just did; walk past the wall that is nowhere near 10 yards and mark the line, rather than arguing with them & trying to push them back?


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## sawtooth (Jan 2, 2017)

Bad dive from Sterling before Aguero scored and referee did nothing. MOTD didn't even mention it.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 2, 2017)

Blue in Munich said:



			Why do more referees not do what Anthony Taylor just did; walk past the wall that is nowhere near 10 yards and mark the line, rather than arguing with them & trying to push them back?
		
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Well at least he's got something right, because if that's a freekick the game is finished.

A good chance to at least close the gap was wasted today by two brain dead decisions.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			How can the Ref know if Jones is playing acting or not? even in a fair genuine tackle if someone appears to be hurt, as Jones did, he has to stop the game immediately.
		
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Just by watching him roll around like a big jessie would be enough.:thup:


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 2, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Well at least he's got something right, because if that's a freekick the game is finished.
		
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But there was contact, therefore Defoe is "entitled to go down". I'm sure that's the current go to phrase to cover when an attacker goes down easily, especially when it's in the box.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 2, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			But there was contact, therefore Defoe is "entitled to go down". I'm sure that's the current go to phrase to cover when an attacker goes down easily, especially when it's in the box.
		
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Ahh that  phrase coined by the famous Andy Gray?

I expect our professional referees to know the difference between contact and a foul. Afterall it's a contact sport.


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## jp5 (Jan 2, 2017)

Couple of wrong decisions but harsh to blame officials that get 1 look in real time.

If fans want more correct decisions technology is the only way to go!


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## Tashyboy (Jan 2, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I just saw the Pep interview, what's eating him?

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Hmmm I thought exactly the same, he did not look a happy bunny, odd thing is that city have had some awful referee performances this year including today. That coupled with some of the questions he has been asked this year by interviews would grate even the most mild mannered of people. Eg, do you think you can go the season unbeaten.

That aside City are supposed to be having a poor season but are three points better of than this stage last season. There are great expectations from City but it is basically the same squad as last year which struggled to fourth in the league. His four major signings.
1, Jesus has not played yet.
2, Gundowan out for rest of season.
3, Sane still finding his feet.
4, Bravo, well the jury's out on him, but had a decent game today.

but what is up with Pep?


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 2, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Spot on. I dare say most of us have taken a knock on a nerve, and few of us have probably had a full on mistimed tackle where we've thought we've broken our leg. In most instances we will have been bounding around like a new born lamb 5 mins later.

In my opinion, the WH player reacted to losing control. It was an instinctive lunge for the ball, and poorly timed and lacking thought. 

So what did Mike Dean see? He saw a player jumping in, and off the ground. He saw Jones knock the ball away before contact. 1) it was a foul. 2) the player off the ground had little/no control over the tackle. 

It then comes down to interpretations. A) He followed the ball but there was no advantage. B) Blow for the foul. C) Red or yellow.

Even without Jones's pain, real or otherwise, he had to deal with a foul in which a player lunged with an off the ground tackle. For me, its red all day long and twice on Mondays...
		
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You been on the sauce?

If you want red cards for that, it'll become basketball or 7 a side every week.

Yellow card.


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## Hobbit (Jan 2, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			You been on the sauce?

If you want red cards for that, it'll become basketball or 7 a side every week.

Yellow card.
		
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Alan Pardew, ex-West Ham manager, has just interpreted it exactly the same way. Red card.


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## NWJocko (Jan 2, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			You been on the sauce?

If you want red cards for that, it'll become basketball or 7 a side every week.

Yellow card.
		
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Not even sure it's a yellow tbh Pedro, watched it a few times and you could probably argue for a foul either way with it.  Almost as if these days you can't have a tackle with committed players from both sides without someone being "to blame" and getting a card of some colour.

Re Liverpool, shouldn't have been a free kick but no idea what Mane was doing, or Klavan for the first penalty either.

Tough school in the top 6 just now though, Utd and Spurs closed in on the top 4 but Utd have won 6 on the bounce and still 6th!  Hopefully (as a neutral) Chelsea don't run away with it but look pretty ominous.  

I could be wrong but Liverpool have played the others in the top 6 all away so far?  That, and lack of European football, should see them finish in top 4 this year I reckon.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 2, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Alan Pardew, ex-West Ham manager, has just interpreted it exactly the same way. Red card.
		
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I wouldn't quote one pundits opinion as being fact.

I would never stoop so low as to quote Pardew, no matter how desperate I was.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 2, 2017)

NWJocko said:



			Re Liverpool, shouldn't have been a free kick but no idea what Mane was doing, or Klavan for the first penalty either.



			neither do I :rant:
		
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I could be wrong but Liverpool have played the others in the top 6 all away so far?  That, and lack of European football, should see them finish in top 4 this year I reckon.
		
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we need to play City and Yernited away  and we play yernited next with the rest at home


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## Hobbit (Jan 3, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			I wouldn't quote one pundits opinion as being fact.

I would never stoop so low as to quote Pardew, no matter how desperate I was.

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So who's best to listen to? Which armchair expert? Souness? 

Sorry, it was Curbishly. As he said, "you leave the ground when making a tackle like that, this season, and you risk a red." IMO Dean got it right.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 3, 2017)

In this day and age with all the technology it would make sense for the ref to have a look at first half sendings off and if he is sure it was right he stays off.
if he is doughtful let him back on for the second half.

But I think Mike Dean would never admit he was wrong , and I think most refs would follow his example.

you can tell when someone is hurt the less they move the more they are hurt.
jones should get an Oscar.
it was a poor tackle from both players , but Jones got the ball never a red 
but if you are a nano second late these days you are walking.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 3, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Mike Dean gets one look at it from his angle in real time, Jones is writhing around and 7 Man Utd players go running in, some from over 20yds and replays show it's harsh, let's blame the Ref though after all he should be perfect!
		
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What happened to the FAs dictat that any players crowding around the ref trying to influence his decision was going to be punished .
just like the shirt pulling 
it was enforced early on but they have let it slide.
The refs are to inconsistent.
football these days 22 cheats and the ref


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## freddielong (Jan 3, 2017)

jp5 said:



			Couple of wrong decisions but harsh to blame officials that get 1 look in real time.

If fans want more correct decisions technology is the only way to go!
		
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A couple of wrong decisions that totally undermined the whole game.


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## garyinderry (Jan 3, 2017)

Did anyone clock the way Sagna was barking at the ref yesterday even after being booked.   very lucky lad.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2017)

Obviously everyone who's posted has seen the tackle and we've got:

Red Card - Feghouli
Yellow Card - Feghouli
No Foul
Red Card -Jones
Yellow Cards - Man Utd Players

And then the Ref gets stick for making a decision........Easy game this.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2017)

Anyone care to enlighten me re the differance between the  feghouli and Fernandinho tackles. Both had there feet off the ground and both made contact with players. In the eyes of the law, it's a red card. The ref knows that and more importantly, so do the players..

Even if I do think it is a stupid rule.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2017)

Blue in Munich said:



			I'd suggest by the fact that he's rolling around asa much as he was Paul.  Anytime I've seen someone who was genuinely seriously injured they either don't move much at all or scream & move but on the spot; they don't roll around like Jones did.  And seriously, how hard would he have had to have been kicked to move him that far, especially considering that it would have had to have overcome the momentum he put in?  Jones should be seriously embarrassed when he sees that back.
		
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I get that, Jones was simply an example in answer to Sawtooth saying the Ref should not stop play in a 50/50 tackle, the Ref has to stop play these days if he thinks someone could have a bad injury,


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## Fish (Jan 3, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I get that, Jones was simply an example in answer to Sawtooth saying the Ref should not stop play in a 50/50 tackle, the Ref has to stop play these days if he thinks someone could have a bad injury,
		
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I think Neville had it spot on, I don't think MD saw him off the ground and initially saw it as a 50/50 as he looked away to follow the ball/play, if he had thought either tackle was reckless at the time he wouldn't have looked for an advantage or for the game to carry on, he would have blown immediately. I think the extent of Jones rolling around forced his hand and changed his initial opinion of what he saw, unfortunately MD will now have a perfect get out because there is no doubt the player was fully off the ground when lunging in, so whether we think it's 50/50 or not, the ref has the ruling on his side and any appeal will fail, imo.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Anyone care to enlighten me re the differance between the  feghouli and Fernandinho tackles. Both had there feet off the ground and both made contact with players. In the eyes of the law, it's a red card. The ref knows that and more importantly, so do the players..

Even if I do think it is a stupid rule.
		
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The difference between the two is quite clear - Fernandinho went off the ground and dived in using a scissor motion and landing two footed - clear red card 

The West Ham player and Jones both went for a 50/50 - neither were going in two footed , Jones beat the West Ham player to the ball with the West Ham player being a fraction late and hitting Jones - a foul and yellow card at most 

Bar the odd one - every single pundit , ex player , ex ref , newspapers all seem to agree that it should have only been a yellow for the West Ham player and a clear red for Fernandinho 

Mike Dean imo watched the play then reacted to the Jones multi role around the pitch as if he had been shot , Lee Mason had a clear look at the Fernandinho tackle and got it spot on 

Mike Dean once again got it wrong - he was shocking in the recent Derby with the clear late tackle on Henderson which should have been a red and was wrong with the most recent red he has dished out - he imo is arrogant as a ref , too busy interested in his "internet fame" in regards his mannerisms when he refs and that masks how many poor decisions he makes - he is up there ( or should I say down there ) with the likes of Mike Jones , Uriah Rennie , Steve Bennett and Rob Styles as the worst refs seen in the Prem


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## freddielong (Jan 3, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think Neville had it spot on, I don't think MD saw him off the ground and initially saw it as a 50/50 as he looked away to follow the ball/play, if he had thought either tackle was reckless at the time he wouldn't have looked for an advantage or for the game to carry on, he would have blown immediately. I think the extent of Jones rolling around forced his hand and changed his initial opinion of what he saw, unfortunately MD will now have a perfect get out because there is no doubt the player was fully off the ground when lunging in, so whether we think it's 50/50 or not, the ref has the ruling on his side and any appeal will fail, imo.
		
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This is how I saw it, Dean definitely looks away and follows the ball, he looks back due to the screams of Jones and thinks maybe I missed something I better send him off.

The worry is though with Dean his mistakes always tend to favour the same teams.


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2017)

Beezerk said:



			I think Jones was play acting as he thought he was in for a red card.
Only seen one replay but from that angle it appeared *Jones was the one who "dove" in without control.*

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In case you missed it, *Jones got the ball* before Feghouli arrived off the ground.



pauldj42 said:



			Obviously everyone who's posted has seen the tackle and we've got:

Red Card - Feghouli
Yellow Card - Feghouli
No Foul
Red Card -Jones
Yellow Cards - Man Utd Players

And then the Ref gets stick for making a decision........Easy game this.
		
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Excellent post ..................... poor refs have absolutely no chance, not on this forum anyway .


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## Fish (Jan 3, 2017)

Slime said:



			In case you missed it, *Jones got the ball* .
		
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Winning or getting the ball first doesn't mean he wasn't reckless or committing a foul though, we just saw that with Ferdie who got the ball but it was a scissor tackle taking the man afterwards and he rightly walked! 

Players coming in from behind or head on and getting to the ball marginally first does not excuse them if they have done so whilst committing a foul, it doesn't exoneration them as some seem to believe!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 3, 2017)

I heard Ray Wilkins describe the Jones aspect of the tackle this morning as "he cleared out the attacker". Took the ball, no question, but also fully took out the West Ham player. An old fashioned tackle in effect which in the modern era is not often seen as it gives the ref a chance to book you. I am absolutely not advocating that Jones should have been carded but clearing out a player is a risky business in modern football. 

Stay on your feet, stops the problem. If you were a manager you would be pounding that into players heads all the time.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I heard Ray Wilkins describe the Jones aspect of the tackle this morning as "he cleared out the attacker". Took the ball, no question, but also fully took out the West Ham player. An old fashioned tackle in effect which in the modern era is not often seen as it gives the ref a chance to book you. I am absolutely not advocating that Jones should have been carded but clearing out a player is a risky business in modern football. 

Stay on your feet, stops the problem. If you were a manager you would be pounding that into players heads all the time.
		
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Whether Feghouli should've been sent
off or not, I really really can't see anything wrong with Jones tackle, Feghouli took a heavy touch and Jones reacted quickly and ckeared the ball, Feghouli was late and caught Jones or Jones couldn't miss him.
Obviously from the Refs point of view Jones did nothing wrong and was never going to book him for the 2.5 rolls and a tuck.


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## sawtooth (Jan 3, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I heard Ray Wilkins describe the Jones aspect of the tackle this morning as "he cleared out the attacker". Took the ball, no question, but also fully took out the West Ham player. An old fashioned tackle in effect which in the modern era is not often seen as it gives the ref a chance to book you. I am absolutely not advocating that Jones should have been carded but clearing out a player is a risky business in modern football. 

*Stay on your feet, *stops the problem. If you were a manager you would be pounding that into players heads all the time.
		
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I agree to some extent and its a basic principle of good defending. However, it is absolutely necessary sometimes to commit to a challenge to avoid injury. Good coaches tell you that also.

Can you imagine what could have happened to Feghouli or Jones if either one of them had remained stood up?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Can you imagine what could have happened to Feghouli or Jones if either one of them had remained stood up?
		
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Nothing most likely. Neither would have been sent off. I doubt they would have full on collided as a head on collision rarely happens. Self preservation takes over.

Nearly all reckless tackles involve being off your feet. Now I do get that sometimes you need to slide in or extend yourself but if you look back over the season and see why players are given straight reds for tackles and I suspect 95% are off their feet.

I heard Danny Murphy on the radio a month or two ago talking about how he coped as a central midfielder if he was on a booking. The key thought in his mind at that stage was stay on your feet. He cut out the diving tackles, the lunges etc and stayed upright.


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## sawtooth (Jan 3, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Nothing most likely. Neither would have been sent off. I doubt they would have full on collided as a head on collision rarely happens. Self preservation takes over.

Nearly all reckless tackles involve being off your feet. Now I do get that sometimes you need to slide in or extend yourself but if you look back over the season and see why players are given straight reds for tackles and I suspect 95% are off their feet.

I heard Danny Murphy on the radio a month or two ago talking about how he coped as a central midfielder if he was on a booking. The key thought in his mind at that stage was stay on your feet. He cut out the diving tackles, the lunges etc and stayed upright.
		
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What I meant is if one player had stayed on their feet and the other went flying in you are at risk of serious injury. 

Most of us were taught to be fully committed in challenges instead of hanging back ( protecting ourself) for that reason.

When I say fully committed I mean fair and hard not reckless and OTT.


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## pbrown7582 (Jan 3, 2017)

Mike dean did even things out though by not sending kouyate off for what was a two footed out of control lunge......


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 3, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Obviously everyone who's posted has seen the tackle and we've got:

Red Card - Feghouli
Yellow Card - Feghouli
No Foul
Red Card -Jones
Yellow Cards - Man Utd Players

And then the Ref gets stick for making a decision........Easy game this.
		
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But it is the referees that don't want the technology because it will show how wrong they get some big decisions.
how many goal line decisions at the weekend with Mark Clatenberg pointing to his watch you can't argue with the ref when he points to the technology making the correct decision.
How many of them would have been waved away.
i am not really slagging refs off I just think they should accept that the speed of players now that they need all the help they can get.
The players don't help all this rolling around .
they should take a look at Rugby it's part of the tension in the game waiting for the video ref to decide by the time Jones had been treated the decision could be made.
but four people have come to a different decision on this forum so no system is perfect just think you might get a better decision if video is used.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			But it is the referees that don't want the technology because it will show how wrong they get some big decisions.
how many goal line decisions at the weekend with Mark Clatenberg pointing to his watch you can't argue with the ref when he points to the technology making the correct decision.
How many of them would have been waved away.
i am not really slagging refs off I just think they should accept that the speed of players now that they need all the help they can get.
The players don't help all this rolling around .
they should take a look at Rugby it's part of the tension in the game waiting for the video ref to decide by the time Jones had been treated the decision could be made.
but four people have come to a different decision on this forum so no system is perfect just think you might get a better decision if video is used.
		
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It's one of them subjects that divides opinion as well and has been discussed at length, some totally agree, some think part technology etc.
For me part of what I love about the game is these decisions, the FA will look at it and decide, nobody is perfect and I don't believe any Official makes a mistake on purpose.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 3, 2017)

freddielong said:



			This is how I saw it, Dean definitely looks away and follows the ball, he looks back due to the screams of Jones and thinks maybe I missed something I better send him off.

The worry is though with Dean his mistakes always tend to favour the same teams.
		
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he plays on the Maxitour where most of the comps are in Manchester with a few ex Man U players also play don't know where he lives but if he is Manchester based he should not be doing Manchester clubs games.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			he plays on the Maxitour where most of the comps are in Manchester with a few ex Man U players also play don't know where he lives but if he is Manchester based he should not be doing Manchester clubs games.
		
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He lives in North Wales and he's a Blue apparently.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2017)

Refs should wear head cams like rugby refs do, then that evidence would dispel the old " I didn't see it" scenario.

Dean imo only gave that red card because of Jones reaction.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 3, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			It's one of them subjects that divides opinion as well and has been discussed at length, some totally agree, some think part technology etc.
For me part of what I love about the game is these decisions, the FA will look at it and decide, nobody is perfect and I don't believe any Official makes a mistake on purpose.
		
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Agree with this but if I was refing a game with what is in effect 22 speed merchants I would welcome some help.
look how long it took to get goal line technology so not holding my breath.
but basics still not good look at linesman in Man U second goal that was a shocker.
video would sort that instantly as the game was stopped any way.


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## Hobbit (Jan 3, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think Neville had it spot on, I don't think MD saw him off the ground and initially saw it as a 50/50 as he looked away to follow the ball/play, if he had thought either tackle was reckless at the time he wouldn't have looked for an advantage or for the game to carry on, he would have blown immediately. I think the extent of Jones rolling around forced his hand and changed his initial opinion of what he saw, unfortunately MD will now have a perfect get out because there is no doubt the player was fully off the ground when lunging in, so whether we think it's 50/50 or not, the ref has the ruling on his side and any appeal will fail, imo.
		
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Not picking on you specifically Robin, but using your post to highlight a point.

Its an assumption by Neville, its not known as fact. And you're assuming Neville's assumption is right to back up your argument. What if both Neville's and your assumption is wrong? Alan Curbishley saw it as I saw it. The guy was off the ground, straight red. But is Cirbsihley's assumption right? Strangely enough, he came to the same conclusion as the guy who made the decision.

The only person who knows why the WH player was sent off is Mike Dean.

For those who though it was a 50/50 ball, why didn't Fego-whatsit arrive at the same time as Jones? He didn't, therefore it wasn't a 50/50 ball. He judgement was flawed.

Once upon a time it wouldn't even have warranted a card, but it does now. Crikey, I'd have spent half the season on the sidelines. And, equally, I've gone for a ball knowing the other guy has already committed to the lunge, and that I'll get there first and get the foul. Doing that I've had two nasty injuries, and thank god there's now more than just a free kick at stake for being reckless.

Or look at it another way, Jones was lucky not to get his leg broken.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			What I meant is if one player had stayed on their feet and the other went flying in you are at risk of serious injury. 

Most of us were taught to be fully committed in challenges instead of hanging back ( protecting ourself) for that reason.

When I say fully committed I mean fair and hard not reckless and OTT.
		
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:thup:

That is the same in rugby or hockey as well. A half hearted tackle is more dangerous than a full on one. Only when in control though, as you say.


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## user2010 (Jan 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Bad dive from Sterling before Aguero scored and referee did nothing. MOTD didn't even mention it. 

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He didn`t dive....he kicked the ground and fell over the advancing keeper.:rofl::thup:


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## Qwerty (Jan 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Bad dive from Sterling before Aguero scored and referee did nothing. MOTD didn't even mention it. 

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Yep It was a shocking dive, he really needs to work on his technique with his Diving coach.

Glad you mentioned it, I was beginning to think I'd imagined it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			He lives in North Wales and he's a Blue apparently.
		
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:rofl: :rofl: it's a conspiracy :rofl: :rofl:


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## freddielong (Jan 3, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			he plays on the Maxitour where most of the comps are in Manchester with a few ex Man U players also play don't know where he lives but if he is Manchester based he should not be doing Manchester clubs games.
		
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Manchester United and Spurs always do well with him whilst Arsenal who have a win rate of approx 60 percent usually it falls suspiciously to around 20 percent when Dean refs.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 3, 2017)

At this particular moment I would like to quote the late, great Kenneth Williams, as Julius Cesar:

"infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for me". 

Shown only the other day and it still made me laugh.


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## sawtooth (Jan 3, 2017)

Scrotie McBoogerballs said:



			He didn`t dive....he kicked the ground and fell over the advancing keeper.:rofl::thup:
		
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Maybe that's the cunning new dive technique. This way you can still try to fool the ref for a pen but you also have a get out. You cant castigate a player for accidentally kicking the ground. Genius.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			:rofl: :rofl: it's a conspiracy :rofl: :rofl:
		
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I always thought he supported tranmere but LB told me he was definitely a Blue. Tranmere is on his list at the FA as the team he supports.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2017)

Has only Ref'd 4 games in total between us, was took off the 2006 Cup Final between you's and West Ham because of possible allegiances to you's (papers claimed).
Neither of us suffer or benefit from him, unlike poor Arsenal :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Has only Ref'd 4 games in total between us, was took off the 2006 Cup Final between you's and West Ham because of possible allegiances to you's (papers claimed).
Neither of us suffer or benefit from him, unlike poor Arsenal :rofl:
		
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He's the reason  Arsenal haven't won the league over the last decade


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## freddielong (Jan 3, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			He's the reason  Arsenal haven't won the league over the last decade 

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It must be nice when you haven't won the league in so long that people stop joking about it, just so I know Stuart_C when is that?


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## sawtooth (Jan 3, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			He's the reason  Arsenal haven't won the league over the last decade 

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Whats youse excuse for the last 25? &#128567;


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## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2017)

freddielong said:



			It must be nice when you haven't won the league in so long that people stop joking about it, just so I know Stuart_C when is that?
		
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When is what ?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Whats youse excuse for the last 25? &#128567;
		
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Uriah Rennie, Howard Webb, rob styles, Graham poll, Roger Milford, Steve Bennett Jeff winte:r   Mike Riley, dermott Gallagher:rofl: :rofl:


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## freddielong (Jan 3, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			When is what ?
		
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How many years of not winning the league before people just don't expect your team to so stop joking about it? I am guessing around 15 -20.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2017)

freddielong said:



			How many years of not winning the league before people just don't expect your team to so stop joking about it? I am guessing around 15 -20.
		
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I don't set the rules so crack on.  Personally I don't get so touchy when it's mentioned by other armchair fans.


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I heard Ray Wilkins describe the Jones aspect of the tackle this morning as "he cleared out the attacker". Took the ball, no question, *but also fully took out the West Ham player.* An old fashioned tackle in effect which in the modern era is not often seen as it gives the ref a chance to book you. I am absolutely not advocating that Jones should have been carded but clearing out a player is a risky business in modern football. 
Stay on your feet, stops the problem. If you were a manager you would be pounding that into players heads all the time.
		
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No he didn't.
Jones was on his way past the West Ham player when the West Ham player arrived and then went into the side of Jones's legs.


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## Old Skier (Jan 3, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			Mike dean did even things out though by not sending kouyate off for what was a two footed out of control lunge......
		
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And this is his main fault here, total lack of consistency giving the impression that he may have thought the first one may have been wrong so he wasn't going to do anything about the Kouyate incident which was worthy of the same punishment.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 3, 2017)

Slime said:



			No he didn't.
Jones was on his way past the West Ham player when the West Ham player arrived and then went into the side of Jones's legs.
		
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We will have to agree to disagree on that one.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 3, 2017)

Is it march already?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2017)

Well that's an interesting start - poor defending


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## Fish (Jan 3, 2017)

&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Dan2501 (Jan 3, 2017)

Haha, this is going well!


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 3, 2017)

dam, just got home as the second hit the back of the net.   whats going on?   seen the penalty.  silly.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 3, 2017)

Terrible from Arsenal and shocking defending to concede the penalty. Big ask now as Bournemouth are well up for this. Can see Arsene being very miserable in the post match interview and dropping further behind Chelsea


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## anotherdouble (Jan 3, 2017)

2-0 is never a safe score. The goooners have the ability and the luck to go on and win this


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 3, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			2-0 is never a safe score. The goooners have the ability and the luck to go on and win this
		
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Draw is the best they can hope for I think and not sure they are good enough tonight for that


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## fundy (Jan 3, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Draw is the best they can hope for I think and not sure they are good enough tonight for that
		
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probably given me more hope than anything else as an arsenal fan Homer, thanks


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## Fish (Jan 3, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Terrible from Arsenal and shocking defending to concede the penalty. Big ask now as Bournemouth are well up for this. Can see Arsene being very miserable in the post match interview and dropping further behind Chelsea
		
Click to expand...

Chelsea are not their first concern, just staying ahead of Spurs & Utd is their only priority now and hoping to secure 4th, which I think will be a battle they won't win.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 3, 2017)

fundy said:



			probably given me more hope than anything else as an arsenal fan Homer, thanks 

Click to expand...

You must be one heck of an optimist on this first half performance


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## anotherdouble (Jan 3, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Draw is the best they can hope for I think and not sure they are good enough tonight for that
		
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As a London blue boy that would be a great result BUT I never trust them not to have the luck they are going to need because they not playing well


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 3, 2017)

I like Arsenal's new black/red striped away kit - they're playing some good football. Not sure about the Bournemouth yellow home kit. 

What's that, Arsenal are in the yellow? Surely you jest, they're being outplayed by Bournemouth.


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## sawtooth (Jan 3, 2017)

Give some credit to Bournemouth they have been great.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Give some credit to Bournemouth they have been great.
		
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Arsenal look a bit tired ? Maybe they needed an extra day off - oh they did do


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 3, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			So who's best to listen to? Which armchair expert? Souness? 

Sorry, it was Curbishly. As he said, "you leave the ground when making a tackle like that, this season, and you risk a red." IMO Dean got it right.
		
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They are all worth listening to.  Assimilate what they say, a soupcon of your own judgement, boil for 10 minutes then make your own decision.:thup:

One pundit/player/manager's opinion doesnt make something a fact, as like us mere mortals, we all have different opinions.

Jones also came in from the side which is a mitigating factor, maybe if Jones had come in straight on and Feghouli jumped in, it may have been right. However, he didnt, it wasnt and IMHO it was never a red.

Future tip: quote more respected people than Pardew.:whoo:


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Give some credit to Bournemouth they have been great.
		
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They have been great for the whole half. Interesting if they keep that intensity up for a chunk of the second half too


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## fundy (Jan 3, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			You must be one heck of an optimist on this first half performance
		
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haha me an optimist re arsenal, you cant have read many of my posts lol, more banking on your jinxing ability


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 3, 2017)

Fish said:



			Winning or getting the ball first doesn't mean he wasn't reckless or committing a foul though, we just saw that with Ferdie who got the ball but it was a scissor tackle taking the man afterwards and he rightly walked! 

Players coming in from behind or head on and getting to the ball marginally first does not excuse them if they have done so whilst committing a foul, it doesn't exoneration them as some seem to believe!
		
Click to expand...

Spot on.


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## sawtooth (Jan 3, 2017)

fundy said:



			haha me an optimist re arsenal, you cant have read many of my posts lol, more banking on your jinxing ability 

Click to expand...

So true. 

Any more negative and I would start calling you a spud &#128567;


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## pokerjoke (Jan 3, 2017)

Absolutely love watching Bournemouth play and one of my favourite players Dan Gosling.

He does not start every game but most times I watch his pass completion percentage must be very high,not a superstar by any stretch but a good solid pro.

Hope Arsenal don't get a draw or better they deserve nowt on the first half performance,they miss Ozil big time and dare I say it Walcotts pace.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 3, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			Mike dean did even things out though by not sending kouyate off for what was a two footed out of control lunge......
		
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Now they are the worst referees, the ones you know are itching to even out a bad decision with an even worse one.


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## fundy (Jan 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			So true. 

Any more negative and I would start calling you a spud &#128567;
		
Click to expand...

nothing wrong with a bit of realism to balance out the fanboy approach


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 3, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			He lives in North Wales and he's a Blue apparently.
		
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No thats Mike Jones (N Wales and Everton), not Mike Dean (who does live on the Wirral and supports Tranmere). Keep up, fatty.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Now they are the worst referees, the ones you know are itching to even out a bad decision with an even worse one.
		
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Two wrongs don't make a right.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			No thats Mike Jones, not Mike Dean (who lives on the Wirral and supports Tranmere). Keep up.

Click to expand...

Come on Pete, keep up, they're all Blue :rofl:


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## Fish (Jan 3, 2017)

Now that's 3 and curtains &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 3, 2017)

Start the car Arsene


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 3, 2017)

It gets even better. ArsenalFanTV is going to be even more hilarious than normal. That fella off Storage Hunters is gonna go nuts.


----------



## sawtooth (Jan 3, 2017)

Foul on Bellerin?!


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## Fish (Jan 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Foul on Bellerin?!
		
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Your defender made no appeal, and if you get nudged off that easily you deserve what you get, he needed to be stronger or put it in row Z, he did neither.


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## garyinderry (Jan 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Foul on Bellerin?!
		
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Yeah it was.   if ever there was a chance of getting back into the game its gone now.   its the kind of nudge you only get away with at home.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			No thats Mike Jones, not Mike Dean (who lives on the Wirral and supports Tranmere). Keep up.

Click to expand...

Sorry you're right, I had my wires crossed:mmm:


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 3, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Two wrongs don't make a right.
		
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Thats what I'm saying, soft lad.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Foul on Bellerin?!
		
Click to expand...

It could be argued.

If Bellerin was my player, I'd be livid with him though, no matter.

He is one of the fastest players in the prem, had a few yards start, and didnt get his shoulder in first. Criminal to be knocked off the ball there, always get your shoulder in first.


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## Fish (Jan 3, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Yeah it was.   if ever there was a chance of getting back into the game its gone now.   its the kind of nudge you only get away with at home.
		
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Just seeing it from behind now and it looks like a good solid Should to shoulder and the gurner wimped out &#128540;


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## sawtooth (Jan 3, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Yeah it was.   if ever there was a chance of getting back into the game its gone now.   its the kind of nudge you only get away with at home.
		
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What was the difference between the Xhaka barge and the barge on Bellerin? Nothing.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			What was the difference between the Xhaka barge and the barge on Bellerin? Nothing.
		
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Ive only seen the Xhaka one once, so would like to see more replays.

However, a shoulder charge is level with each other (and normally more of a 50/50), whilst a push in the back isnt.:thup:


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## USER1999 (Jan 3, 2017)

Not dead yet.


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## garyinderry (Jan 3, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			It could be argued.

If Bellerin was my player, I'd be livid with him though, no matter.

He is one of the fastest players in the prem, had a few yards start, and didnt get his shoulder in first. Criminal to be knocked off the ball there, always get your shoulder in first.
		
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He should have got his whole body in the way.   be that as it may, it was still a foul.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 3, 2017)

Fair play some finish that


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## pokerjoke (Jan 3, 2017)

Fish said:



			Now that's 3 and curtains &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;
		
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Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 3, 2017)

Checked the odds just after Arsenal scored their first goal. 33/1. Wish I'd had a few of quid on it then as I can see them going on to win it from here.


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## anotherdouble (Jan 3, 2017)

3-3 would do me. So what if it is a great comeback. To me it's still 2 points dropped. Nil points or 1 no big difference


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2017)

Next goal, (if there is one), will be scored by the winners .......................... I just hope it's B'mouth.


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## USER1999 (Jan 3, 2017)

Bellerin having a shocker tonight.


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## Kellfire (Jan 3, 2017)

Another debatable red in my opinion.


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## Fish (Jan 3, 2017)

Let them breathe a little longer and give a little hope and then just finish 'em off with a killer punch,


Straight red.


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## USER1999 (Jan 3, 2017)

10 men, but i think its too late.


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## garyinderry (Jan 3, 2017)

Soft red for me there.


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## Old Skier (Jan 3, 2017)

IMO fairly clear cut.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 3, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			He should have got his whole body in the way.   be that as it may, it was still a foul.
		
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Your forgetting the rule that says, if the player is shorter than you by 5 inches, you cant give a shoulder charge against him.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 3, 2017)

Thought the ref got that red spot on


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## anotherdouble (Jan 3, 2017)

Why don't they just cut straight to the 95th minute equaliser. Save all the tension


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 3, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Thought the ref got that red spot on
		
Click to expand...

I though Ramsey should have got a red.......


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 3, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Thought the ref got that red spot on
		
Click to expand...

I thought it was a poor decision and probably should have been a yellow. Wasn't a two footed lunge but more a mistimed poor challenge. Any criticism of Ramsey for going down like he'd been shot and then being back up and running around OK 2 minutes later?

This isn't aimed at you so much Homer but more those that criticised Jones for his reaction that got the West Ham player sent off yesterday.


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## USER1999 (Jan 3, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Why don't they just cut straight to the 95th minute equaliser. Save all the tension
		
Click to expand...

Done


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 3, 2017)

Wow. Well payed Arsenal. That's impressive. Looked dead and buried. Some fightback. What price a winner?


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## Old Skier (Jan 3, 2017)

Who woke them up


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## USER1999 (Jan 3, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			I thought it was a poor decision and probably should have been a yellow. Wasn't a two footed lunge but more a mistimed poor challenge. Any criticism of Ramsey for going down like he'd been shot and then being back up and running around OK 2 minutes later?

This isn't aimed at you so much Homer but more those that criticised Jones for his reaction that got the West Ham player sent off yesterday.
		
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Ramsey has previous too, ok, last time his leg was mangled, but it was obviously a dive, just a one legged one.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2017)

fundy said:



			haha me an optimist re arsenal, you cant have read many of my posts lol, more banking on your jinxing ability 

Click to expand...

The powers are strong :rofl:


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## fundy (Jan 3, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The powers are strong :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

haha indeed they are 

papering over some obvious cracks, wenger will blame the ref and not enough rest rather than the same old issues meaning were playing for 4th again


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## sawtooth (Jan 3, 2017)

Astonishing come back and a excellent point. &#128077;&#128077;&#128077;&#128567;&#128567;&#128567;


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## anotherdouble (Jan 3, 2017)

2 points dropped. That will do me


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## garyinderry (Jan 3, 2017)

Take a point after all that.  Heart pumping stuff.


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## anotherdouble (Jan 3, 2017)

I see Hull have sacked Phelan. With all of the hassle of appointing him I don't think the owners really wanted him


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## sawtooth (Jan 3, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Take a point after all that.  Heart pumping stuff.
		
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Deffo , point away to a top 10 team never a bad result. We see how difficult Liverpool found it there a few weeks back.


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## Fish (Jan 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Deffo , point away to a top 10 team never a bad result. We see how difficult Liverpool found it there a few weeks back.
		
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So if you were offered a point at the start  you'd have taken it?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2017)

Fish said:



			So if you were offered a point at the start  you'd have taken it?
		
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Of course they would've


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2017)

Good game for the neutral, feel sorry for B'mouth but still feel it's more of a 2 points dropped by Arsenal though.


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## garyinderry (Jan 3, 2017)

Was I the only one shouting 'get back up the pitch' when Giroud was doing his celebration.  :rofl:


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## Dan2501 (Jan 3, 2017)

Good comeback but still 2 points dropped for Arsenal. Not exactly making a charge at Chelsea.


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## garyinderry (Jan 3, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Good comeback but still 2 points dropped for Arsenal. Not exactly making a charge at Chelsea.
		
Click to expand...

Chelsea won't beat spurs tomorrow.  Sure of it.


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## Fish (Jan 3, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Of course they would've 

Click to expand...

What's even funnier is it would seem they use yous as a barometer &#128514;

So, a team in 4th (currently) only expects 1 point against all top 10 teams when away from home, and they think that they can win a league with fans thinking like that &#128514;&#128514;


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## sawtooth (Jan 3, 2017)

Fish said:



			So if you were offered a point at the start  you'd have taken it?
		
Click to expand...

No not saying that, of course would have preferred to win. But from 3 nil down this point feels like a win.

A point isn't a disaster away to a top 10 team though.


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2017)

Arsenal now only 2 points ahead of United ........................ and we all know how crap they are .


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## garyinderry (Jan 3, 2017)

Sticking with it.  Not a red for me.    super harsh.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2017)

Nicked off Twitter

Liverpool: "That night in Istanbul"

Man Utd: "That night in Moscow"

Chelsea: "That night in Munich"

Arsenal: "That night in Bournemouth"


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## Slime (Jan 3, 2017)

Fish said:



			What's even funnier is it would seem they use yous as a barometer &#62978;

So, a team in 4th (currently) only expects 1 point against all top 10 teams when away from home, and they think that they can win a league with fans thinking like that &#62978;&#62978;
		
Click to expand...

That's just a measure of how desperate they are. 
They are panicking so blindly that they just don't know what they actually want!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Sticking with it.  Not a red for me.    super harsh.
		
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I think it's one of those tackles that you can justify being a red - he has gone high over the ball and used the scissors motion again , if a yellow then I don't think anyone would be demanding a red. Prob a yellow is the right call but can see why it's a red


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 3, 2017)

Here's a thought.

IF, Chelsea won 20 straight games on the run, would that be a bigger achievement than Arsenal's unbeaten league season?

It's OK, Sean, we know your answer.


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## sawtooth (Jan 3, 2017)

I agree with Henry there, soft red card for Francis. Hardly going to do any real harm with that challenge.


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## Fish (Jan 3, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Sticking with it.  Not a red for me.    super harsh.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, watching the replays that's a very harsh red, it's not reckless, he's in control, he just gets the top if the ball but goes through Ramsey but there's no real intent imo, it's a yellow all day for me and the red changed the game and the result imo.


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## Old Skier (Jan 3, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Here's a thought.

IF, Chelsea won 20 straight games on the run, would that be a bigger achievement than Arsenal's unbeaten league season?

It's OK, Sean, we know your answer.

Click to expand...

I suppose, as Chelsea are a fairly junior club they have time for that in the future.


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## sawtooth (Jan 3, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Here's a thought.

IF, Chelsea won 20 straight games on the run, would that be a bigger achievement than Arsenal's unbeaten league season?

It's OK, Sean, we know your answer.

Click to expand...

Pete, bit busy at the moment to think about that. Can I tell you my answer about the same time tomorrow?


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## Papas1982 (Jan 3, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Here's a thought.

IF, Chelsea won 20 straight games on the run, would that be a bigger achievement than Arsenal's unbeaten league season?

It's OK, Sean, we know your answer.

Click to expand...

Not for me. Arsenals total for that season has already been beaten, but for me it's still the greatest title win the pressure towards the end must have been immense. 

Even if if piers did cheat to keep it intact against Portsmouth.


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## sawtooth (Jan 3, 2017)

I can see why Eddie Howe is being touted to replace Wenger. 

Howe's team can play some beautiful stuff but doesn't always get what he deserves. He'll fit right in. &#128567;


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## Fish (Jan 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I can see why Eddie Howe is being touted to replace Wenger. 

Howe's team can play some beautiful stuff but doesn't always get what he deserves. He'll fit right in. &#128567;
		
Click to expand...

Not sure why he would want to go to Arsenal, in 8 years he's brought Bournemouth from League 2 to a potential top 10 PL club which I think could do even more with, why go to Arsenal when he will get far more satisfaction making Bournemouth a side pushing for a European spot without the shackles he'd find himself under especially if Whinger went upstairs.


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## garyinderry (Jan 3, 2017)

Play great football, get a man set off, let a 3 goal lead slip.  Yep, he's our man.   sign him up.  


Got a lot of time for him.  Great young manager. :thup:


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Pete, bit busy at the moment to think about that. Can I tell you my answer about the same time tomorrow?
		
Click to expand...

Ok mate - no asking Curbishley though.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 3, 2017)

Eaxcatly...why would Howe want to go to Arsenal, surely he would want to be at a big club.


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## sawtooth (Jan 3, 2017)

Fish said:



			Not sure why he would want to go to Arsenal, in 8 years he's brought Bournemouth from League 2 to a potential top 10 PL club which I think could do even more with, why go to Arsenal when he will get far more satisfaction making Bournemouth a side pushing for a European spot without the shackles he'd find himself under especially if Whinger went upstairs.
		
Click to expand...

Assuming he wants to of course. With all due respect to Bournemouth, he might want to manage a bigger club wherever and whenever that might be.


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## jp5 (Jan 3, 2017)

A point away to Bournemouth is an excellent result nowadays? Gee.

Got to question why we didn't start the game with the urgency we finished it with.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2017)

Nice to see Swansea win, I have a real dislike for "big sam" and his yard dog football.


----------



## Slime (Jan 3, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Eaxcatly...why would Howe want to go to Arsenal, surely he would want to be at a big club.
		
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My guess is that he'll wait until the England job comes round again.
He won't want the Arsenal job because he's ambitious .............. Arsenal aren't.


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## sawtooth (Jan 3, 2017)

Slime said:



			My guess is that he'll wait until the England job comes round again.
He won't want the Arsenal job because he's ambitious .............. Arsenal aren't.
		
Click to expand...

It sure as hell won't be Utd where life expectancy is no more than 2 seasons.:ears:


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## stokie_93 (Jan 4, 2017)

Thanks for another 3 points Piece :whoo:


----------



## pbrown7582 (Jan 4, 2017)

10 years behind .... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:whoo:


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 4, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			10 years behind .... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:whoo:
		
Click to expand...

The worrying thing is the apologists will be agreeing with him.


----------



## fundy (Jan 4, 2017)

jp5 said:



			A point away to Bournemouth is an excellent result nowadays? Gee.

Got to question why we didn't start the game with the urgency we finished it with.
		
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Watching the interviews last night they kept talking about the great character to come back from 3-0 down. Not once did they mention the attitude/character to get to 3-0 down lol


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## sawtooth (Jan 4, 2017)

fundy said:



			Watching the interviews last night they kept talking about the great character to come back from 3-0 down. Not once did they mention the attitude/character to get to 3-0 down lol
		
Click to expand...

Bournemouth deserve some credit for last nights performance, don't make it all about Arsenal.


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## fundy (Jan 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Bournemouth deserve some credit for last nights performance, don't make it all about Arsenal.
		
Click to expand...

hahahahahahaha are you for real


----------



## sawtooth (Jan 4, 2017)

fundy said:



			hahahahahahaha are you for real
		
Click to expand...

Sometimes you just have to hold your hands up and accept that the opposition were better and that was the case for the first 45 mins last night. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, Bournemouth were great IMO.


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## richy (Jan 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Sometimes you just have to hold your hands up and accept that the opposition were better and that was the case for the first 45 mins last night. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, Bournemouth were great IMO.
		
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What would it take for you/Wenger supporters to say enough is enough and it's time for him to go? 
Miss out on top 4? 
Miss out on Europa?
Relegation?

Serious question


----------



## sawtooth (Jan 4, 2017)

richy said:



			What would it take for you/Wenger supporters to say enough is enough and it's time for him to go? 
Miss out on top 4? 
Miss out on Europa?
Relegation?

Serious question
		
Click to expand...

Miss out on top 4 for a couple of years in a row will probably do it. However, Wenger would probably resign if he failed to make top 4 once. He set that particular benchmark himself but people forget how difficult it is to achieve.


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## richy (Jan 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Miss out on top 4 for a couple of years in a row will probably do it. However, Wenger would probably resign if he failed to make top 4 once. He set that particular benchmark himself but people forget how difficult it is to achieve.
		
Click to expand...

It's very difficult to achieve but why can't Wenger get Arsenal to kick on and win a major trophy?


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Sometimes you just have to hold your hands up and accept that the opposition were better and that was the case for the first 45 mins last night. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, Bournemouth were great IMO.
		
Click to expand...

1st goal, right back goes missing
2nd goal midfielder is an idiot
3rd goal right back vanishes further into the hole he dug himself.


Whilst bournemouth played with high tempo all three goals were due to defensive inadequacies, not great play imo.


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## sawtooth (Jan 4, 2017)

richy said:



			It's very difficult to achieve but why can't Wenger get Arsenal to kick on and win a major trophy?
		
Click to expand...

Well I think part of it is that we can't get first pick of the players we want to bring in. Not that many top drawer players available to begin with and when they do become available we don't the pay as much as the competition.

And we have more of a fight to keep the talent we have. We are not alone in that, Spurs, Liverpool , etc experience the same.

I would like to think we are getting better at spending money but still not in the same league as some. 

Waiting for someone to mention Leicester any minute.&#128077;


----------



## sawtooth (Jan 4, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			1st goal, right back goes missing
2nd goal midfielder is an idiot
3rd goal right back vanishes further into the hole he dug himself.


Whilst bournemouth played with high tempo all three goals were due to defensive inadequacies, not great play imo.
		
Click to expand...

Yes but you could also argue that Bournemouths good play, pressing and high tempo caused Arsenal to become disorganised , harried and pulled out of place.  It depends on how you look at it.


----------



## richy (Jan 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Well I think part of it is that we can't get first pick of the players we want to bring in. Not that many top drawer players available to begin with and when they do become available we don't the pay as much as the competition.

And we have more of a fight to keep the talent we have. We are not alone in that, Spurs, Liverpool , etc experience the same.

I would like to think we are getting better at spending money but still not in the same league as some. 

Waiting for someone to mention Leicester any minute.&#128077;
		
Click to expand...

The thing is you mention Leicester yourself so you know the money excuse doesn't tell the whole story. Good coaching, a well balanced side and team work rate works wonders. 

Your owners are billionaires so money must be available. Wenger has done magnificent for you but that was a long time ago and he can't really cut it at the very top when it comes to winning major trophies anymore.


----------



## user2010 (Jan 4, 2017)

How does Mystic Meg(Homer) see the game going tonight?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 4, 2017)

West Ham's appeal against the red has been successful


----------



## sawtooth (Jan 4, 2017)

richy said:



			The thing is you mention Leicester yourself so you know the money excuse doesn't tell the whole story. Good coaching, a well balanced side and team work rate works wonders. 

Your owners are billionaires so money must be available. Wenger has done magnificent for you but that was a long time ago and he can't really cut it at the very top when it comes to winning major trophies anymore.
		
Click to expand...

Leicester was a freak thing, it will be another 100 years before anything like that happens again. 

Money is a lot of it, invariably the club with the best players wins the day. But management, coaching, work rate, motivation,  training, tactics, formation, diet all play a part and dare I say it -  luck also.

I am sure Wenger would do certain things differently given his time again but nobody is perfect I guess.

Maybe we need Pep? :smirk:


----------



## freddielong (Jan 4, 2017)

richy said:



			The thing is you mention Leicester yourself so you know the money excuse doesn't tell the whole story. Good coaching, a well balanced side and team work rate works wonders. 

Your owners are billionaires so money must be available. Wenger has done magnificent for you but that was a long time ago and he can't really cut it at the very top when it comes to winning major trophies anymore.
		
Click to expand...

Arsenal do not have owners they are still a traded commodity on the AIM we have majority shareholders there is a massive massive difference. Usmanov or Kronke are not going to give money to something they only part own without something back in return.

And re Leicester you can not use the only exception to prove a rule.


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## jp5 (Jan 4, 2017)

Can only spend so much money - after that other factors come into play, as Leicester (and Chelsea) showed last year.


----------



## richy (Jan 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Leicester was a freak thing, it will be another 100 years before anything like that happens again. 

Money is a lot of it, invariably the club with the best players wins the day. But management, coaching, work rate, motivation,  training, tactics, formation, diet all play a part and dare I say it -  luck also.

I am sure Wenger would do certain things differently given his time again but nobody is perfect I guess.

Maybe we need Pep? :smirk:
		
Click to expand...

I know that was a tongue in cheek remark but you probably do need Pep. Or a manager of that calibre. Wenger used to be at that level but hasn't been for a number of years. 

I heard on the radio to that if Bayern beat you in the Champions League that will be 7 years straight you've been knocked out at the first KO stage. Is that true?


----------



## sawtooth (Jan 4, 2017)

richy said:



			I know that was a tongue in cheek remark but you probably do need Pep. Or a manager of that calibre. Wenger used to be at that level but hasn't been for a number of years. 

I heard on the radio to that if Bayern beat you in the Champions League that will be 7 years straight you've been knocked out at the first KO stage. Is that true?
		
Click to expand...

Yes sounds about right.

If Wenger was at charge at Barca and Bayern instead of Pep I bet he would have enjoyed exactly the same success.

I honestly don't see Pep as an upgrade unless he brought with him Â£500M to spend


----------



## richy (Jan 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yes sounds about right.

If Wenger was at charge at Barca and Bayern instead of Pep I bet he would have enjoyed exactly the same success.

I honestly don't see Pep as an upgrade unless he brought with him Â£500M to spend
		
Click to expand...

He could be Wenger 2.0

His sides can play nice football
technically superior than opposition 
They like to walk it in the net
However they actually win things


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## sawtooth (Jan 4, 2017)

As much as I would love Chelsea to extend their winning run I've stuck a tenner on Kane to score and Spurs to win in 90 mins , miserly 4/1

Anyone else had a small flutter?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 4, 2017)

Sounds daft, but that first 30 mins have flown by!


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## garyinderry (Jan 4, 2017)

Great header.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 4, 2017)

A cracking header from Ali, always a good time score.


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## sawtooth (Jan 4, 2017)

Very nice goal &#128077;

COYS


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## One Planer (Jan 4, 2017)

Anybody seen Fish


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## pokerjoke (Jan 4, 2017)

Great ball very composed header,however I have a feeling Ali might not last 90 mins picking up a yellow for celebrating with the fans[bonkers rule].


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## sawtooth (Jan 4, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Anybody seen Fish 

Click to expand...

:whoo:

I thought I better test this still works, I havent seen it for a while.

:whoo:


yep all OK.


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## richy (Jan 4, 2017)

Where was Luis going for that goal?


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## ger147 (Jan 4, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Great ball very composed header,however I have a feeling Ali might not last 90 mins picking up a yellow for celebrating with the fans[bonkers rule].
		
Click to expand...

As the rule is leaving the field of play and especially going right up to/into the crowd to celebrate, why is it only the goal scorer who gets booked? There must have been about 7 players near enough in the front row of the stand celebrating.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 4, 2017)

I'm not sure but would guess it's probably due to the exact wording of that particular law. It will possibly say something along the lines of "If a player, after scoring a goal, leaves the field of play and goes into the crowd they will receive a yellow card". As it, in my example, doesn't mention other players then they don't get booked.


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## fundy (Jan 4, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Anybody seen Fish 

Click to expand...

hes at WHL


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## anotherdouble (Jan 4, 2017)

Courtois was lost for that goal. 2 defenders at back post and he goes flying in and misses it


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## sawtooth (Jan 4, 2017)

I wouldnt be happy with Courtois there, closed his eyes and turned his head away from the header.


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## davemc1 (Jan 4, 2017)

The Ev are singing a beaut in Eriksen &#128077;


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## Piece (Jan 4, 2017)

It's the quality of Eriksen's delivery that makes both goals.


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## sawtooth (Jan 4, 2017)

Piece said:



			It's the quality of Erikson's delivery that makes both goals.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely right.


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## sawtooth (Jan 4, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Here's a thought.

IF, Chelsea won 20 straight games on the run, would that be a bigger achievement than Arsenal's unbeaten league season?

It's OK, Sean, we know your answer.

Click to expand...

I think 20 wins on the spin might be bigger :rofl::rofl:


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 4, 2017)

Seemed a very under par Chelsea performance tonight and didn't create too much. Makes the top a bit tighter though which has to be good for the neutral


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 4, 2017)

So Spurs back into the Top 4 - the gap behind Chelsea still very much manageable 

That top 6 looks very tasty


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## Jensen (Jan 4, 2017)

Who put the end to the Chelski run - Tottenham.

Fantastic result, get in.

We've got Alli, Dele Alli, I just don't think you understand. 
He only cost 5 mill- he's better than Ozil, we've got Dele Alli.

We've got Alli, Dele Alli.....

Yid Army, Yid Army


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 4, 2017)

Sunday 15th could be pivotal with Everton v City and can see City dropping points. Man United v Liverpool a massive game and hard to call that. Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea "*should*" get results against lower teams but who knows.


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## Slime (Jan 4, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Who put the end to the Chelski run - Tottenham.

Fantastic result, get in.

We've got Alli, Dele Alli, I just don't think you understand. 
He only cost 5 mill- he's better than Ozil, we've got Dele Alli.

We've got Alli, Dele Alli.....

Yid Army, Yid Army
		
Click to expand...

What time does school start tomorrow?
Shouldn't you be in bed by now?


----------



## Jensen (Jan 4, 2017)

Slime said:



			What time does school start tomorrow?
Shouldn't you be in bed by now?
		
Click to expand...

Oh have I touched a nerve.......


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 4, 2017)

Spurs very much the better side tonight,  they didn't let Chelsea dictate the play and took there chances. 

I thought the ref let quite a few silly fouls go that he'd have blown up for in many of his previous games, let's hope it's a sign Of The times though i won't hold my breath.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 4, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			The Ev are singing a beaut in Eriksen &#128077;
		
Click to expand...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: stop it la


----------



## guest100718 (Jan 4, 2017)

We've got Alli.
Dele Alli...


----------



## guest100718 (Jan 4, 2017)

jensen said:



			who put the end to the chelski run - tottenham.

Fantastic result, get in.

We've got alli, dele alli, i just don't think you understand. 
He only cost 5 mill- he's better than ozil, we've got dele alli.

We've got alli, dele alli.....

Yid army, yid army
		
Click to expand...

come on you spurs


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## Tarkus1212 (Jan 4, 2017)

No complaints, best team won and now the media can stop going on about records.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 4, 2017)

Enjoyed that tonight, 2 good teams and the better on the night came out on top, 
All top 6 will drop points, it about who drops the least and against who, fun times ahead.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 4, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Enjoyed that tonight, 2 good teams and the better on the night came out on top, 
All top 6 will drop points, it about who drops the least and against who, fun times ahead.
		
Click to expand...

The ref didn't spoil it neither which was a bonus.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			The ref didn't spoil it neither which was a bonus.
		
Click to expand...

Always good when they're not mentioned&#128515;


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			The ref didn't spoil it neither which was a bonus.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, from the 70 odd minutes I saw, he let it flow.

I didnt think Chelsea were that bad, just not as clinical in the box.

It seems like Spurs fans have only just found this thread. One thing I hate is part time, glory hunters, who only find a voice when their team is going well.

I worked with a Welsh fella for 8 years who never mentioned Man U or football once, then they won the league after 26 years and suddenly he's talking about them every week. Hate 'em.


----------



## guest100718 (Jan 4, 2017)

I avoid this thread as it full of net spend idiots.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 4, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			I avoid this thread as it full of net spend idiots.
		
Click to expand...

How much do you spend on nets? Or do you mean nett.


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## Jensen (Jan 5, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			It seems like Spurs fans have only just found this thread. One thing I hate is part time, glory hunters, who only find a voice when their team is going well.

I worked with a Welsh fella for 8 years who never mentioned Man U or football once, then they won the league after 26 years and suddenly he's talking about them every week. Hate 'em.
		
Click to expand...

Oh well...at least it provides an opportunity for your hate to be focused elsewhere &#128077;


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## Slime (Jan 5, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			I avoid this thread as it full of net spend idiots.
		
Click to expand...




Liverbirdie said:



			How much do you spend on nets? Or do you mean nett.

Click to expand...


Beautiful .................. made me chuckle, thanks Pete :thup:.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			The ref didn't spoil it neither which was a bonus.
		
Click to expand...

Your right I think there was a foul before the goal but he waved play on.

Big game on the 15th now mate a win for us and we are title contenders


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## Stuart_C (Jan 5, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Your right I think there was a foul before the goal but he waved play on.

Big game on the 15th now mate a win for us and we are title contenders
		
Click to expand...

You see in the last 15 years those type of tackles have been given as fouls so it becomes the norm. I've seen plenty of refs Inc Oliver who have blown up for fouls like the one against Arsenal for the 3rd. 

I'd love refs to start waving play on to these niggly little clashes because it improves the game. 

That game was a decent spectacle for the neutral and I think that was down to Atkinson , Mike Dean Was The same in the Derby apart from the Barkley on  Henderson challenge. 

Yernited have always been title contenders with that squad and manager. I wonder if he'll set up for a point like he did at Anfield?

Where's fishy?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 5, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Oh well...at least it provides an opportunity for your hate to be focused elsewhere &#62541;
		
Click to expand...

Maybe hate isn't the right word, invective, sound much better.:thup:


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Where's fishy?
		
Click to expand...

Still battling through the gloryhunters.......so to speak.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			You see in the last 15 years those type of tackles have been given as fouls so it becomes the norm. I've seen plenty of refs Inc Oliver who have blown up for fouls like the one against Arsenal for the 3rd. 

I'd love refs to start waving play on to these niggly little clashes because it improves the game. 

That game was a decent spectacle for the neutral and I think that was down to Atkinson , Mike Dean Was The same in the Derby apart from the Barkley on  Henderson challenge. 

Yernited have always been title contenders with that squad and manager. I wonder if he'll set up for a point like he did at Anfield?

Where's fishy?
		
Click to expand...

No mate all out for the win.

You know Fish only posts when Chelsea is winning[that should entice him out]


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 5, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			No mate all out for the win.

You know Fish only posts when Chelsea is winning[that should entice him out]
		
Click to expand...

I think he's a beer with BiM and PSeeker to discuss a response :rofl:


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## Fish (Jan 5, 2017)

Getting back in the very early hours, I've had a lie in :smirk:


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## Hobbit (Jan 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			Getting back in the very early hours, I've had a lie in :smirk:
		
Click to expand...

Cry yourself to sleep Robin?


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## sawtooth (Jan 5, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I think he's a beer with BiM and PSeeker to discuss a response :rofl:
		
Click to expand...


This should be interesting:ears:


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## Stuart_C (Jan 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			Getting back in the very early hours, I've had a lie in :smirk:
		
Click to expand...

I'm glad you're back safe fishy, hopefully not too disheartened


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 5, 2017)

Everton have spent somewhere between Â£7.5m and Â£11m on Charlton youngster Ademola Lookman. Don't know anything about him, any reports?


----------



## Fish (Jan 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm glad you're back safe fishy, hopefully not too disheartened 

Click to expand...

A bit lively before and a few skirmishes but otherwise unscathed.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 5, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Everton have spent somewhere between Â£7.5m and Â£11m on Charlton youngster Ademola Lookman. Don't know anything about him, any reports?
		
Click to expand...

He's the next Messi/Ronaldo rolled into 1 :rofl:


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 5, 2017)

Dan - I'll be following the answers to your question as I don't know much about him either. They are not loaning him back though and the indications are that he will be playing for the first team pretty imminently. Hopefully he is the next Deli Alli :whoo:


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## Dan2501 (Jan 5, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			He's the next Messi/Ronaldo rolled into 1 :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

As long as he's not the next Arouna Kone I'm happy.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 5, 2017)

Or Niasse


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## davemc1 (Jan 5, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Or Niasse 

Click to expand...

Or Eriksen..... 



Sos, couldn't help myself &#128540;


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 5, 2017)

Windows open for a while yet Dave


----------



## Rlburnside (Jan 5, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, from the 70 odd minutes I saw, he let it flow.

I didnt think Chelsea were that bad, just not as clinical in the box.

It seems like Spurs fans have only just found this thread. One thing I hate is part time, glory hunters, who only find a voice when their team is going well.

I worked with a Welsh fella for 8 years who never mentioned Man U or football once, then they won the league after 26 years and suddenly he's talking about them every week. Hate 'em.
		
Click to expand...


Or maybe Spurs fans (and others) don't post on this thread because they get fed up with the never ending saga between some Liverpool and Arsenal fans regarding Wenger:thup:

Great win for Spurs and its made the title race more interesting now.


----------



## richart (Jan 5, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Everton have spent somewhere between Â£7.5m and Â£11m on Charlton youngster Ademola Lookman. Don't know anything about him, any reports?
		
Click to expand...

 Saw him play last season, and looked very lightweight for the Championship. Only young so presume he has been bought as one for the future. Surprised if he features much this season.

What do Liverpool supporters know about Tiago Ilori ? Any good ? Understand he is quick and left footed and can play from the back. Sounds good for us, but hardly had a game in defence for Liverpool in three years is worrying.


----------



## fundy (Jan 5, 2017)

Good to see Wenger getting the chequebook out early in the window 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38519179


----------



## ger147 (Jan 5, 2017)

West Ham in for Dembele from Celtic, Â£20m bid.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 5, 2017)

richart said:



			Saw him play last season, and looked very lightweight for the Championship. Only young so presume he has been bought as one for the future. Surprised if he features much this season.

What do Liverpool supporters know about Tiago Ilori ? Any good ? Understand he is quick and left footed and can play from the back. Sounds good for us, but hardly had a game in defence for Liverpool in three years is worrying.

Click to expand...

Another one of Rodger's finest signings.He was a great prospect when we signed him and was highly rated in Portugal. He never got a real chance apart from a couple of games under Klopp  where he was badly lacking match fitness though he looked decent.


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## Fish (Jan 5, 2017)

Well Fonte has put in a request to leave Southampton and could be on his way to Utd not Liverpool for a change and Sanchez is not a happy bunny at Arsenal, calls for Wengers head will certainly get stronger if Sanchez jumps ship as he's clearly not happy with his team mates and the real possibility of no European football next year, it's obviously not a good enough attraction to only challenge for a domestic cup now & then &#128540;


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 5, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			Or maybe Spurs fans (and others) don't post on this thread because they get fed up with the never ending saga between some Liverpool and Arsenal fans regarding Wenger:thup:

Great win for Spurs and its made the title race more interesting now.
		
Click to expand...

Poor excuse, must try harder.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 5, 2017)

richart said:



			Saw him play last season, and looked very lightweight for the Championship. Only young so presume he has been bought as one for the future. Surprised if he features much this season.

What do Liverpool supporters know about Tiago Ilori ? Any good ? Understand he is quick and left footed and can play from the back. Sounds good for us, but hardly had a game in defence for Liverpool in three years is worrying.

Click to expand...

He has looked good in reserve games, and friendlies etc, but doesnt look robust enough to be a centre half in the Premiership. I dont think hes gonna fill out any more, so may have to go abroad. Quick, cool on the ball. May be a good option for you, but needs a few pies down him.

He also has a slightly curlyish "hairdo".


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 5, 2017)

ger147 said:



			West Ham in for Dembele from Celtic, Â£20m bid.
		
Click to expand...

Cracking player who was superb for us and come on at Celtic even further. He'll do a job for any PL side


----------



## Slime (Jan 6, 2017)

Fish said:



			Sanchez is not a happy bunny at Arsenal, calls for Wengers head will certainly get stronger if Sanchez jumps ship as he's clearly not happy with his team mates and the *real possibility of no European football next year*, it's obviously not a good enough attraction to only challenge for a domestic cup now & then &#63004;
		
Click to expand...

Hey Fish, I think they're almost a dead cert for European football next year .............. in the Europa League.


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 6, 2017)

Interesting story regarding Usmanovs company aquiring naming rights at Everton's training ground finch farm. If it wasn't he who bought Moshiris stake at Arsenal I'd be thinking he's looking at getting out. 

I know for certain I wouldn't be happy if a company JWH owned ploughed money into another Prem team.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 6, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			Interesting story regarding Usmanovs company aquiring naming rights at Everton's training ground finch farm. If it wasn't he who bought Moshiris stake at Arsenal I'd be thinking he's looking at getting out. 

I know for certain I wouldn't be happy if a company JWH owned ploughed money into another Prem team.
		
Click to expand...

I smell a rat with this one.


----------



## anotherdouble (Jan 6, 2017)

Never a foul on Zabaleta after the slo mo but I can see why Oliver gave it in real time


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 6, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Never a foul on Zabaleta after the slo mo but I can see why Oliver gave it in real time
		
Click to expand...

Was deffo a foul, even if it was soft, he clipped his heels. The turning point was West Ham missing a sitter.
3-0 will do me.


----------



## anotherdouble (Jan 6, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Was deffo a foul, even if it was soft, he clipped his heels. The turning point was West Ham missing a sitter.
3-0 will do me.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry mate. Still not for me


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 6, 2017)

No pen for me.  He ran into his standing foot.   more a coming together than a trip. 


Ref sees contact and gives it.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 6, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I smell a rat with this one.
		
Click to expand...

How can an individual have an interest in two teams ?


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 6, 2017)

Ah say where's everyone gone.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 6, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			How can an individual have an interest in two teams ?
		
Click to expand...

He or she can't. I think Usmanov will sell his stake in Arsenal now everton are gonna be the next Real Madrid


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 6, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			How can an individual have an interest in two teams ?
		
Click to expand...

He hasn't, Sky Sports News went into detail, it's only if the individual has a place on the board or owns shares, no issue with the Company sponsoring the training ground.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 6, 2017)

West Ham woeful tonight. Is Slaven in trouble as it's been a poor season for West Ham and their aspirations


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## anotherdouble (Jan 6, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			West Ham woeful tonight. Is Slaven in trouble as it's been a poor season for West Ham and their aspirations
		
Click to expand...

I dont think a loss in the cup to Man City will cause his demise but I don't think he will have long if more results against so called lesser teams go against him


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 6, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			I dont think a loss in the cup to Man City will cause his demise but I don't think he will have long if more results against so called lesser teams go against him
		
Click to expand...

Thing is, with their league position, European football is unlikely and so I think the club and fans would have wanted a good cup run. Can it be solely down to the new stadium?


----------



## Slime (Jan 6, 2017)

Did West Ham try their hardest ......................... I don't think so, they were pathetic.
The players coud cost Bilic, but hey, I expect they'll blame the stadium!


----------



## anotherdouble (Jan 6, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Thing is, with their league position, European football is unlikely and so I think the club and fans would have wanted a good cup run. Can it be solely down to the new stadium?
		
Click to expand...

Do West Ham win away.....Yes and so I don't believe the stadium is the reason at all. Players are not performing. Their main man From last season Payet has not been at the races this year.


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 6, 2017)

That was one grim cup match.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 6, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			He or she can't. I think Usmanov will sell his stake in Arsenal now everton are gonna be the next  Get Real  

Click to expand...

More like it.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 6, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			More like it.
		
Click to expand...

&#128514;&#128553;&#128514; fantastic Sinbad,it really is Bantz of the top level.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 6, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			More like it.
		
Click to expand...

Pete, you know Stu likes his conspiracy theories


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 6, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Pete, you know Stu likes his conspiracy theories 

Click to expand...

It beats listening to bluenose taxi driver lies :rofl:


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 6, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			&#128514;&#128553;&#128514; fantastic Sinbad,it really is Bantz of the top level.
		
Click to expand...

Bump

Cooey:ears:


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 6, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Bump

Cooey:ears:
		
Click to expand...

Why?


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 6, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			That was one grim cup match.
		
Click to expand...

Not for the Tash it wasn't.:whoo:


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 6, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Bump

Cooey:ears:
		
Click to expand...

Hes a knob isnt he, I'd report him to the mods but would rather sort things out myself.

As great a bantz as trotting out Sinbad every time.

Stuey, did I ever tell you about the time when he sent me 3 PM's, panicking about LP being banned, it was probably the end of the sad mans little life.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Hes a knob isnt he, I'd report him to the mods but would rather sort things out myself.

As great a bantz as trotting out Sinbad every time.

Stuey, did I ever tell you about the time when he sent me 3 PM's, panicking about LP being banned, it was probably the end of the sad mans little life.
		
Click to expand...

Apologies if my saying that you're a dead ringer for the window cleaner off brookside upset you La.


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## Fish (Jan 7, 2017)

&#128514;&#128514;&#128514; dodgy keeper &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## sawtooth (Jan 7, 2017)

Fish said:



			&#128514;&#128514;&#128514; dodgy keeper &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;
		
Click to expand...

Are we still talking about Spurs win against Chelsea? &#128567;


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## Fish (Jan 7, 2017)

Just saw a tackle by manure resident diver Young in a replay and I think some refs going on recent events would have sent him off, certainly no complaints from anyone if he'd have received a red &#129300;


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## Slime (Jan 7, 2017)

I think the ref got that one right as Young was not airborne.
Some would have given a red though, understandably.


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## Fish (Jan 7, 2017)

Everton take the lead and within 8 minutes are 2-1 down &#128563;&#129300;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 7, 2017)

Fish said:



			Everton take the lead and within 8 minutes are 2-1 down &#128563;&#129300;
		
Click to expand...

We're concentrating on getting into the Europa league :rofl: :rofl:


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## Fish (Jan 7, 2017)

Get in their Preston  &#128077;&#128079;&#128079;&#128079;


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## PhilTheFragger (Jan 7, 2017)

The Mighty Wycombe into the 4th round of the F A Cup
Credit to Stourbridge, put up a very good fight

they are where Wycombe were 30 years ago.


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## Fish (Jan 7, 2017)

Millwall put Bournemouth to the sword and I must admit I now look at the Terriers scores and they convincingly put Port Vale to bed.


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## Fish (Jan 7, 2017)

Preston should be 3-nil up here, or is that the idea, Arsenal now give 3-0 head starts &#128514;&#128540;


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## fundy (Jan 7, 2017)

getting outplayed by a championship mid table side, its ok though because we'll show "character" later on

take out 3 or 4 players and this looks a very ordinary group


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## sawtooth (Jan 7, 2017)

fundy said:



			getting outplayed by a championship mid table side, its ok though because we'll show "character" later on

take out 3 or 4 players and this looks a very ordinary group
		
Click to expand...

Yeah because we should be beating teams like Preston in the cup 8-0 

#fantasyfootball


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## Fish (Jan 7, 2017)

fundy said:



			getting outplayed by a championship mid table side, its ok though because we'll show "character" later on

take out 3 or 4 players and this looks a very ordinary group
		
Click to expand...

Preston are playing great football, constantly picking arsenals pockets in midfield, I hope the missed chances don't cost them because they working very hard.


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## fundy (Jan 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah because we should be beating teams like Preston in the cup 8-0 

#fantasyfootball
		
Click to expand...

who said anything about 8-0? we should at least look like the premiership side, maybe win the midfield, create a few chances? or you happy with being outplayed at preston?


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## Fish (Jan 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah because we should be beating teams like Preston in the cup 8-0 

#fantasyfootball
		
Click to expand...

I doubt you'll have 8 shots on target at this rate,......and that chance off the line could/should  be 4-nil &#128514;

#WengerObsession


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## sawtooth (Jan 7, 2017)

fundy said:



			who said anything about 8-0? we should at least look like the premiership side, maybe win the midfield, create a few chances? or you happy with being outplayed at preston?
		
Click to expand...

No I'm happy that's it's a typical FA Cup tie with an hour to go.


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## USER1999 (Jan 7, 2017)

fundy said:



			getting outplayed by a championship mid table side, its ok though because we'll show "character" later on

take out 3 or 4 players and this looks a very ordinary group
		
Click to expand...

I think this is the best squad we have had for 10 years. There is one weak link, and he doesn't set foot on the pitch.


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## USER1999 (Jan 7, 2017)

Soft yellow. It looked nasty, but it was an accident. Gabriel doesn't look happy!


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## sawtooth (Jan 7, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			I think this is the best squad we have had for 10 years. There is one weak link, and he doesn't set foot on the pitch.
		
Click to expand...

WOB out in full force tonight.

Embarrassing.


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## USER1999 (Jan 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			WOB out in full force tonight.

Embarrassing.
		
Click to expand...

Why is it embarassing? Everyone has a sell by date, and he has reached his. He has been fantastic, but he is now so far off the pace of a top manager. Its time for change. Nothing lasts forever.


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## Fish (Jan 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			WOB out in full force tonight.

Embarrassing.
		
Click to expand...

No, for a PL team in the position they are with the players you have, you have been embarrassing and embarrassed in the whole of that first half, it's no wonder Wenger is concentrating on existing contracts, I can hear the shouts from the dressing room, ABANDON SHIP &#128514;&#128514;


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## USER1999 (Jan 7, 2017)

Lovely strike.


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## fundy (Jan 7, 2017)

far better intent as soon as they came out and back on level terms, why do we have to go behind for this to happen though???


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## MegaSteve (Jan 7, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Lovely strike.
		
Click to expand...


About bloomin' time...

Way too many lackadaisical errors from the gunners at present...


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## Fish (Jan 7, 2017)

fundy said:



			far better intent as soon as they came out and back on level terms, why do we have to go behind for this to happen though???
		
Click to expand...

I think your very lucky to have conceded only the 1 goal in that first half. 

You looked a different team for the first few minutes of the second half but you've gone quiet again, who the motivator out there supposed to be, do you gave a captain &#129300;


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## Fish (Jan 7, 2017)

The games gone soft if that's a yellow!


----------



## fundy (Jan 7, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think your very lucky to have conceded only the 1 goal in that first half. 

You looked a different team for the first few minutes of the second half but you've gone quiet again, who the motivator out there supposed to be, do you gave a captain &#129300;
		
Click to expand...

we may have one wearing an armband, we certainly dont have a leader

that should be a pen for the pull on giroud


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## Fish (Jan 7, 2017)

6ft 7", he's playing the wrong sport &#128540;


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## USER1999 (Jan 7, 2017)

Replay?


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## Fish (Jan 7, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Replay?
		
Click to expand...

Kiss of death question &#128540;


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## Fish (Jan 7, 2017)

Bummer &#128545;


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## USER1999 (Jan 7, 2017)

That will do then.


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## fundy (Jan 7, 2017)

Fish said:



			Bummer &#128545;
		
Click to expand...

dont know what youre talking about fish, commanding victory, wenger got it spot on once again


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## Fish (Jan 7, 2017)

fundy said:



			dont know what youre talking about fish, commanding victory, wenger got it spot on once again 

Click to expand...

Has Sean hacked your account &#128540;


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## MegaSteve (Jan 7, 2017)

Taking the positives....

Danny back playing and Olivier continues to prove his detractors wrong...


Onwards and upwards...


----------



## sawtooth (Jan 7, 2017)

Fish said:



			Has Sean hacked your account &#63004;
		
Click to expand...

Tried all sorts of passwords- ungratefulgooner, wengerout, iwantpep, shortmemory, but got there in the end.

User fundy
Password spudindisguise


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## stokie_93 (Jan 7, 2017)

Hughes Out.


----------



## sawtooth (Jan 7, 2017)

stokie_93 said:



			Hughes Out.
		
Click to expand...

Had to check , thought he walked or got sacked!


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## fundy (Jan 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Tried all sorts of passwords- ungratefulgooner, wengerout, iwantpep, shortmemory, but got there in the end.

User fundy
Password spudindisguise
		
Click to expand...

only took the one guess to get yours  ilovewenger


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 7, 2017)

Is it me (probably) but has the 3rd round been very lacklustre so far. Good result for Sutton v Wimbledon but other than that all rather so so


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## stokie_93 (Jan 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Had to check , thought he walked or got sacked!
		
Click to expand...

I wish.


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## Fish (Jan 7, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Is it me (probably) but has the 3rd round been very lacklustre so far. Good result for Sutton v Wimbledon but other than that all rather so so
		
Click to expand...

It's you. 

West Ham: Out
West Brom: Out
Stoke: Out
Everton: Out
Swansea: Out
Bournemouth: Out

When's the draw?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 7, 2017)

Fish said:



			It's you. 

West Ham: Out
West Brom: Out
Stoke: Out
Everton: Out
Swansea: Out
Bournemouth: Out

When's the draw?
		
Click to expand...

West Ham out to a PL team
West Brom out to a top championship side 
Stoke at home to Wolves - good away win 
Everton - out to a PL team
Swansea out to a PL side
Bournemouth - probably the biggest result of the round to date.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 7, 2017)

Didn't Bournemouth make 11 changes? If that is right then the result is not really much of a surprise.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 7, 2017)

Listening to all the bloo's ringing in moaning to Ronnie Goodlass on the wireless today was funny, I was surprised at how many times we got mentioned and we didn't even play today :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Listening to all the bloo's ringing in moaning to Ronnie Goodlass on the wireless today was funny, I was surprised at how many times we got mentioned and we didn't even play today :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

In what context were you's mentioned?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			In what context were you's mentioned?
		
Click to expand...

Have a listen on catch up :smirk:


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Listening to all the bloo's ringing in moaning to Ronnie Goodlass on the wireless today was funny, I was surprised at how many times we got mentioned and we didn't even play today :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Hardly surprising,after all you're the biggest club in the universe & everyone's obsessed with you &#128580;


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## Stuart_C (Jan 7, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Hardly surprising,after all you're the biggest club in the universe & everyone's obsessed with you &#128580;
		
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Hurrrayyyyy pinseeker actually has a brain cell. Well done you :clap: :clap:


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Hurrrayyyyy pinseeker actually has a brain cell. Well done you :clap: :clap:
		
Click to expand...

Obviously you haven't noticed the amount of times other teams get talked about,yet their fans don't seem to play the poor us card so much.
Wonder why that is &#129300;


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## Stuart_C (Jan 7, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Obviously you haven't noticed the amount of times other teams get talked about,yet *their fans don't seem to play the poor us card so much.*
Wonder why that is &#129300;
		
Click to expand...

Listen gobshyte instead of taking snide little digs like a little rat  why don't you just come out and say what you really mean?


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 7, 2017)

Calm down La,I mean you don't see other fans on here crying like little girls because they get talked about. 
But crack on flower &#128077;&#127995;


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## Tiger man (Jan 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Listening to all the bloo's ringing in moaning to Ronnie Goodlass on the wireless today was funny, I was surprised at how many times we got mentioned and we didn't even play today :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Well we are crap so I can understand the moaning, but at least the club looks like it's on the up for the first time in 25-30 years so another season of waiting is not going to harm us, the future looks bright.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 7, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Calm down La,I mean you don't see other fans on here crying like little girls because they get talked about. 
But crack on flower &#128077;&#127995;
		
Click to expand...

I'm very calm.

I know exactly what you're referring too, like I said instead of snide little digs come out and say it. I know you won't because it's too easy to hide behind a computer  screen instead.

Internet hardcase.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm very calm.

I know exactly what you're referring too, like I said instead of snide little digs come out and say it. I know you won't because it's too easy to hide behind a computer  screen instead.

Internet hardcase.
		
Click to expand...

Stu leave him to it - the more that ignore him then he might just drift away when he isn't getting the reaction he craves


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm very calm.

I know exactly what you're referring too, like I said instead of snide little digs come out and say it. I know you won't because it's too easy to hide behind a computer  screen instead.

Internet hardcase.
		
Click to expand...

Here we go again &#128580;.
I've told you exactly what I mean,but don't let that stop you AGAIN.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 7, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Stu leave him to it - the more that ignore him then he might just drift away when he isn't getting the reaction he craves
		
Click to expand...

I crave a reaction? Seriously Phil. 
You're the biggest attention seeker on here.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 7, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Here we go again &#128580;.
I've told you exactly what I mean,but don't let that stop you AGAIN.
		
Click to expand...

Whose crying like a little girl playing the poor us card because I wasn't.


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## stokie_93 (Jan 7, 2017)

Popcorn anyone?:whoo:


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 7, 2017)

stokie_93 said:



			Popcorn anyone?:whoo:
		
Click to expand...


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 7, 2017)

stokie_93 said:



			Hughes Out.
		
Click to expand...

Ooooo, should you judge him on a cup game, as so many arent "up" for it these days, or make lots of changes, or is that the final nail in the coofin, cos of his league form, although thought you were doing ok.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 8, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm very calm.

I know exactly what you're referring too, like I said instead of snide little digs come out and say it. I know you won't because it's too easy to hide behind a computer  screen instead.

Internet hardcase.
		
Click to expand...

Hes a coward mate, no friends to talk of on here, and all the Chelsea fans hate him, as well.

10k posts and 9k on Liverpool, or quoting me, you or Phil.

If I had an obsession like that, I'd expect a mate to take me to one side, which he obviously lacks.

Is that ok, girlfriend?


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 8, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Listening to all the bloo's ringing in moaning to Ronnie Goodlass on the wireless today was funny, I was surprised at how many times we got mentioned and we didn't even play today :rofl:
		
Click to expand...


i heard him saying 1-2, 1-2. I thought he was testing his microphone for a minute &#128514;&#128514;


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## stokie_93 (Jan 8, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ooooo, should you judge him on a cup game, as so many arent "up" for it these days, or make lots of changes, or is that the final nail in the coofin, cos of his league form, although thought you were doing ok.
		
Click to expand...

Of course I should. We played a championship side (not even a good one) at home with a full side. 
Players that have won CL trophies and we were so poor. 

We were awful against watford it was just that they were way worse. 
Bojan is probably the most talented player I've ever seen at Stoke yet he's being forced out by championship level players. 
His tactics are poor and never seems to have a plan B. 
His man management is horrendous tbh and we're starting to stagnate. 

All becoming a bit boring really.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 8, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			i heard him saying 1-2, 1-2. I thought he was testing his microphone for a minute &#128514;&#128514;
		
Click to expand...

Are you Stan Boardman in disguise?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 8, 2017)

Stokie, interesting one. I'd say you, West Ham, Southampton, Palace are all under performing this year. Everton are just about getting away with it, West Brom are over achieving. I'm talking about the mid division within a division that exists in the PL. Is Hughes actually under pressure or are you a lone voice so far?


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## Kellfire (Jan 8, 2017)

Quality finish by Rashford for the fourth yesterday. Great technique, struck perfectly and curled expertly into the net. World class.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 8, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Quality finish by Rashford for the fourth yesterday. Great technique, struck perfectly and curled expertly into the net. World class.
		
Click to expand...

yeah it was decent. 
You think he's got what it takes to become world class?


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## Slime (Jan 8, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			yeah it was decent. 
*You think he's got what it takes to become world class?*

Click to expand...

Yes.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 8, 2017)

Slime said:



			Yes.
		
Click to expand...

So hell be the one that the press build up & put all the pressure on for the World Cup.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 8, 2017)

Slime said:



			Yes.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think he will at Utd. Still down the pecking order ATM. Personally think if he was destined for that he'd be the main one already. He's gonna be very good. But imo more of a good player than great. Would love to be proved wrong as he's English.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 8, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I don't think he will at Utd. Still down the pecking order ATM. Personally think if he was destined for that he'd be the main one already. He's gonna be very good. But imo more of a good player than great. Would love to be proved wrong as he's English.
		
Click to expand...

Still only 19 tho mate.
Rooney & Ibra not getting any younger so maybe he'll get more game time sooner rather than later.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 8, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Still only 19 tho mate.
Rooney & Ibra not getting any younger so maybe he'll get more game time sooner rather than later.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah he may do. I think a lot will depend who's manager. Don't see him as a mourinho striker. Will he be happy in 3 years always being sub or played out wide?

he seems a talent ATM. But think he's a long way off world class ATM. Will be good to seem him develop though.


----------



## stokie_93 (Jan 8, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Stokie, interesting one. I'd say you, West Ham, Southampton, Palace are all under performing this year. Everton are just about getting away with it, West Brom are over achieving. I'm talking about the mid division within a division that exists in the PL. Is Hughes actually under pressure or are you a lone voice so far?
		
Click to expand...

100% not the only one LT. 

Been a lot of pressure since the start we had. We've shipped 4 goals summat like 5/6 times already this season. 
The run we went on sort of covered the cracks but we were playing worse teams than us and rightly beat them. 

A lot of pressure recently has come from Hughes team selections, in game tactics and man management. 

Last night I was just a bit irrational as I do like Hughes and he's progressed the squad but if he were to go I wouldn't be massively fussed. Although I wouldn't know who we'd replace him with.


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## Slime (Jan 8, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			So hell be the one that the press build up & put all the pressure on for the World Cup.
		
Click to expand...


Maybe.
Right now the press seem to be fixated with Dele Alli, who knows who they'll be picking on next year!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 8, 2017)

Anyone know when Sky choose the March fixtures to show? My sister is 50 at the end of Feb and she wants to go the Liverpool v Arsenal match on March 5th. At the moment it is still showing as a 3pm Saturday fixture but it screams a Sky match. I can see matches up until the end of Feb but nothing in March yet.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 8, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Anyone know when Sky choose the March fixtures to show? My sister is 50 at the end of Feb and she wants to go the Liverpool v Arsenal match on March 5th. At the moment it is still showing as a 3pm Saturday fixture but it screams a Sky match. I can see matches up until the end of Feb but nothing in March yet.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure when they choose,but it'll definitely be worth n Sky or Bt so won't be 3pm sat.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 8, 2017)

My thinking as well. The next likely game is then C.Palace at home in April. 12.45 or 5.30 would still be okay, Sunday would be more awkward.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 8, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			My thinking as well. The next likely game is then C.Palace at home in April. 12.45 or 5.30 would still be okay, Sunday would be more awkward.
		
Click to expand...

In the past it would definitely been a super Sunday game. 
But it's all changed now.


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 8, 2017)

Thinking plymouth are massively over priced at 11s


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 8, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			Thinking plymouth are massively over priced at 11s
		
Click to expand...

Currently 45/1 on betfair


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 8, 2017)

All this talk about LPool benefiting from no European Football, 9 matches this month alone, could be make or break this month.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 8, 2017)

Chelsea cruising now,nice to see Batshuayi on the score sheet. :whoo: :whoo:


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 8, 2017)

stokie_93 said:



			100% not the only one LT. 

Been a lot of pressure since the start we had. We've shipped 4 goals summat like 5/6 times already this season. 
The run we went on sort of covered the cracks but we were playing worse teams than us and rightly beat them. 

A lot of pressure recently has come from Hughes team selections, in game tactics and man management. 

Last night I was just a bit irrational as I do like Hughes and he's progressed the squad but if he were to go I wouldn't be massively fussed. Although I wouldn't know who we'd replace him with.
		
Click to expand...

I think he has bridged the gap of the Pullis "style" to a more footballing one, but maybe to proceed, you may need someone else who is a bit braver. Consolidating a position in the 7-11 positions league (with Everton, Soton etc) has been a good achievement though.

Breaking into the top 6 is going to be a tall order for anyone in the coming few years, as I can see it being a bit of a closed shop once Spurs and Chelsea get their new grounds. The only other possible ones could be Newcastle or Everton, unless someone else gets "sugar-daddied".


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 8, 2017)

My god Spurs v Villa first half was grim.
England should do away with the FA cup if the teams only play the 2nd/3rd string players.


----------



## MegaSteve (Jan 8, 2017)

Doon frae Troon said:



			My god Spurs v Villa first half was grim.
England should do away with the FA cup if the teams only play the 2nd/3rd string players.
		
Click to expand...


If you can find the interview with the two lads that manage/coach Lincoln... Take a listen then you'll maybe understand why the FA cup still has importance in the game...


----------



## Jensen (Jan 8, 2017)

Where's the Spurs glory boys now....oh wait a second I'm online &#128514;&#128514;

Not really happening for Janssen since his move to Spurs, looks  short on confidence which isn't suppressing. Hopefully it's just a case of adapting to the pace of the premiership as we certainly need someone to support Kane,


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 8, 2017)

Good result for Plymouth even if Klopp had changed the side hugely. Another fixture for Liverpool to play. Becoming a crowded schedule now


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 8, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Good result for Plymouth even if Klopp had changed the side hugely. Another fixture for Liverpool to play. Becoming a crowded schedule now
		
Click to expand...

We could've done without it but hey ho that's the beauty of The FA Cup. Nice to see Gomez back in the side after a long injury though.


----------



## Old Skier (Jan 8, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Good result for Plymouth
		
Click to expand...

 All down to Gingsters


----------



## pbrown7582 (Jan 8, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Anyone know when Sky choose the March fixtures to show? My sister is 50 at the end of Feb and she wants to go the Liverpool v Arsenal match on March 5th. At the moment it is still showing as a 3pm Saturday fixture but it screams a Sky match. I can see matches up until the end of Feb but nothing in March yet.
		
Click to expand...


The match will played on the Saturday arsenal have CL on the following Tuesday. TV fixtures for March due very soon.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 8, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			The match will played on the Saturday arsenal have CL on the following Tuesday. TV fixtures for March due very soon.
		
Click to expand...

Yet another Man Utd fan obsessed with Arsenal :rofl: :ears:


----------



## pbrown7582 (Jan 9, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Yet another Man Utd fan obsessed with Arsenal :rofl: :ears:
		
Click to expand...

thought you'd be quite today as your seasons over........:rofl:

or laughing at yesterdays half and half shirts .......


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 9, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			thought you'd be quite today as your seasons over........:rofl:

or laughing at yesterdays half and half shirts .......
		
Click to expand...

Pete and Stu got a half n half each :rofl:


----------



## pbrown7582 (Jan 9, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Pete and Stu got a half n half each :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

CAN JUST SEE IT,  ON THERE WAY DOWN THE M5 next Wednesday....


GREEN ARMY

RED ARMY

GREEN ARMY

RED ARMY.....


:rofl:


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 9, 2017)

So Ronaldo is the best player in the world. 
No Premier league players make the team of the year. 
Infact the team is made up of Real & Barca players apart from the GK.


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Jan 9, 2017)

The mighty Wycombe away to Spurs in the FA cup 4th round

Bring it on


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## sawtooth (Jan 9, 2017)

PhilTheFragger said:



			The mighty Wycombe away to Spurs in the FA cup 4th round

Bring it on 

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Is it just me or is this the most uninspiring 4th round draw ever?

Normally there's one stand out game of the round but I'm struggling to see it here. Sets it up for the 5th round I suppose as most of the big teams SHOULD get through this round.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 9, 2017)

I thought the very same although home to Hull will do me and think we have a reasonable chance of winning that. Not one game there that looks exciting and not sure what TV will do with this menu


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## Fish (Jan 9, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Is it just me or is this the most uninspiring 4th round draw ever?

Normally there's one stand out game of the round but I'm struggling to see it here. Sets it up for the 5th round I suppose as most of the big teams SHOULD get through this round.
		
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I think Plymouth Vs Wolves will be a tight affair &#128540;


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 9, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think Plymouth Vs Wolves will be a tight affair &#128540;
		
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Naughty:rofl::thup::cheers:


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 9, 2017)

For god sake don't set them off AGAIN  :blah:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 9, 2017)

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...-dortmund-supporters-win-first-fifa-fan-award

Looked an amazing night topped off with such a great game


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 10, 2017)

So looks like they are going to increase the World Cup to 48 teams apparently because of the success of the Euro - im guessing they mean success as in financial rewards for the governing body because as a spectator it was one of the worst summer tournaments in recent memory - with the most memorable moment being some clap by the Iceland fans !

A World Cup of 48 will imo just dilute the quality and will be poor for the spectators but will of course bring in more money to FIFA and ensure the President gets a few more votes


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## Fish (Jan 10, 2017)

It's just about money, in fact it's worth an additional â‚¬980m ($1billion) nett!  But the pigs with their snouts in the trough won't care when the first country gets humiliated 12-nil, if it's lucky, cus they'll still be counting their dosh.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 10, 2017)

Everton have agreed a deal with Man Utd for Schneiderlein. Â£22m apparently. Good buy for us and I'm pleased we have him now, not at the end of the month. Hopeful of one or two more but this is a great start.


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## SaintHacker (Jan 10, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Everton have agreed a deal with Man Utd for Schneiderlein. Â£22m apparently. Good buy for us and I'm pleased we have him now, not at the end of the month. Hopeful of one or two more but this is a great start.
		
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You've got yourself a superb player there. Of all the ones that have left us he's the one I miss the most and the only one I would have back.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 10, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Everton have agreed a deal with Man Utd for Schneiderlein. Â£22m apparently. Good buy for us and I'm pleased we have him now, not at the end of the month. Hopeful of one or two more but this is a great start.
		
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I think he could be a very good buy especially as he's only 27 and plenty of good years left


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## Papas1982 (Jan 10, 2017)

SaintHacker said:



			You've got yourself a superb player there. Of all the ones that have left us he's the one I miss the most and the only one I would have back.
		
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I agree he was superb for us. Hasnt been given a fair chance at utd imo. 

Think Romeu has done well so far. Think we need to get a striker and just play fonte unless he refuses to start?

Toffees, is this the end of Gareth "yellow card" barry?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 10, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree he was superb for us. Hasnt been given a fair chance at utd imo. 

Think Romeu has done well so far. Think we need to get a striker and just play fonte unless he refuses to start?

Toffees, is this the end of Gareth "yellow card" barry?
		
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Barry has been good for us and will be happy if he and Schneiderlein play together for the rest of this season then Barry takes a step back, we've struggled for a bit of bite when Barry has been out.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 10, 2017)

Decent lead for Utd to take to Hull, and that's all that counts, but what an awful match, flicking between that and the 2014 Ryder Cup to keep me going.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 10, 2017)

Barry has been an excellent buy for us but he is obviously getting to the end of his career and Schniederlin and Gueye are the future. With this signing Koeman can keep those three fresh and have instant cover when the inevitable suspensions come along. It's a clever and good buy that will improve us rather than a squad buy that will keep us at the same level at best.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 10, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Barry has been an excellent buy for us but he is obviously getting to the end of his career and Schniederlin and Gueye are the future. With this signing Koeman can keep those three fresh and have instant cover when the inevitable suspensions come along. It's a clever and good buy that will improve us rather than a squad buy that will keep us at the same level at best.
		
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Keeping Barry though is always going to give you options especially off the bench going forward


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## Papas1982 (Jan 10, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Barry has been an excellent buy for us but he is obviously getting to the end of his career and Schniederlin and Gueye are the future. With this signing Koeman can keep those three fresh and have instant cover when the inevitable suspensions come along. It's a clever and good buy that will improve us rather than a squad buy that will keep us at the same level at best.
		
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I think if he beds in well then he has the potential to make Barry redundant very soon. He's defo a step up. Or at least the player we sold was lol

Who next for Koeman? Pelle back from China maybe


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 10, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Decent lead for Utd to take to Hull, and that's all that counts, but what an awful match, flicking between that and the 2014 Ryder Cup to keep me going.
		
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Has the offside rule been changed specifically for United recently?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 10, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Has the offside rule been changed specifically for United recently?
		
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Don't you start, we'll have Stu on with his conspiracy theories 

Mata should've been disallowed and how late was he giving the Hull header offside! Same lino as well wasn't it?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 10, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Don't you start, we'll have Stu on with his conspiracy theories 

Mata should've been disallowed and how late was he giving the Hull header offside! Same lino as well wasn't it?
		
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No conspiracy theories concerning that lot. The proof is out there for everyone to see :ears:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 10, 2017)

Fish said:



			It's just about money, in fact it's worth an additional â‚¬980m ($1billion) nett!  But the pigs with their snouts in the trough won't care when the first country gets humiliated 12-nil, if it's lucky, cus they'll still be counting their dosh.
		
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Agree about the money, but just seen how it's planned to work.
48 teams in 16 groups of 3.
Top 2 go through
Last 32 is knockout.

So to me you have a good chance of some upsets.

Currently 32 whittled down to 16 before knockouts and teams have played better opposition.

Never know new format could throw up some surprises.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 10, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			No conspiracy theories concerning that lot. The proof is out there for everyone to see :ears:
		
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And all through the 70's & 80's supporters of United and every other club said exactly the same about Liverpool. I still remember my lot being robbed blind at Anfield in '72-'73 season.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 10, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			And all through the 70's & 80's supporters of United and every other club said exactly the same about Liverpool. I still remember my lot being robbed blind at Anfield in '72-'73 season.
		
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That doesn't count, sky invented football don't forget


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## pbrown7582 (Jan 11, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Has the offside rule been changed specifically for United recently?
		
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don't things even out over the season that's 3 decisions back of the 14 against us so far this season


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 11, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			That doesn't count, sky invented football don't forget

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Don't get me started on that one, Stu.

There have been many benefits to arise from the PL and Sky's coverage but the Pol Pot style of revisionism is not one of them. The dominance of the PL by Man U, Arsenal & Chelsea (and more latterly Man City) is to be admired but is no more praiseworthy than your lot's performance through the 70's & 80's.

But which does Sky keep going on about?


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## Papas1982 (Jan 11, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			Don't get me started on that one, Stu.

There have been many benefits to arise from the PL and Sky's coverage but the Pol Pot style of revisionism is not one of them. The dominance of the PL by Man U, Arsenal & Chelsea (and more latterly Man City) is to be admired but is no more praiseworthy than your lot's performance through the 70's & 80's.

But which does Sky keep going on about?
		
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I agree it's no more praiseworthy. But, they are selling a product so will of course push the one they show. Plus they sell to a captive audience. And hope to engage new fans too. Let's be honest, there's now a generation of fans who haven't seen Liverpool win a title. So the discussion of them Is obviously going to take a back seat. 

The same thing happens during during recent major tournaments when I hear you youngsters calling Spain and Germany the best teams ever seen, they seem oblivious to anything that they've nit witnessed. 

In fact, rant mode on. Fat Ronaldo!! The Brazilian 
legend is quite often referred to as that now that Skinny Ronaldo is around!


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## Stuart_C (Jan 11, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree it's no more praiseworthy. But, they are selling a product so will of course push the one they show. Plus they sell to a captive audience. And hope to engage new fans too. Let's be honest, there's now a generation of fans who haven't seen Liverpool win a title. So the discussion of them Is obviously going to take a back seat. 

The same thing happens during during recent major tournaments when I hear you youngsters calling Spain and Germany the best teams ever seen, they seem oblivious to anything that they've nit witnessed. 

In fact, rant mode on. Fat Ronaldo!! The Brazilian 
legend is quite often referred to as that now that Skinny Ronaldo is around!
		
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In fairness we still do get a lot of  discussion, too much at times, but its the other great successfull teams Of The pre premier league that get forgotten about.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 11, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			Don't get me started on that one, Stu.

There have been many benefits to arise from the PL and Sky's coverage but the Pol Pot style of revisionism is not one of them. The dominance of the PL by Man U, Arsenal & Chelsea (and more latterly Man City) is to be admired but is no more praiseworthy than your lot's performance through the 70's & 80's.

But which does Sky keep going on about?
		
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Of course it's the PL, that's their "product".


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 11, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			And all through the 70's & 80's supporters of United and every other club said exactly the same about Liverpool. I still remember my lot being robbed blind at Anfield in '72-'73 season.
		
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Mickie, I agree with you that we got more then, Chelsea the last 10 years, Arsenal in their hey-day , but I honestly think that Man U took it to their own level when they had a successful Fergie.

They haven't had it so much over the last 3 years, and been treated like everyone else, but now that they have an ultra-moaner back in charge, maybe its coming back again. 

Fergie/Mourinho and Man U's profile prove to be a heady mix in applying pressure to the FA/head of refereeing/individual refs once their on a roll. :thup:


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## Jensen (Jan 11, 2017)

I predicted Man U's dominance would come to an end when Fergie left. Purely on the "Fergie factor" , he used to intimidate referees and linesmen, you could see that referees were terrified of him, and that led to PLENTY of decisions going one way.


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## Kellfire (Jan 11, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Mickie, I agree with you that we got more then, Chelsea the last 10 years, Arsenal in their hey-day , but I honestly think that Man U took it to their own level when they had a successful Fergie.

They haven't had it so much over the last 3 years, and been treated like everyone else, but now that they have an ultra-moaner back in charge, maybe its coming back again. 

Fergie/Mourinho and Man U's profile prove to be a heady mix in applying pressure to the FA/head of refereeing/individual refs once their on a roll. :thup:
		
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Jensen said:



			I predicted Man U's dominance would come to an end when Fergie left. Purely on the "Fergie factor" , he used to intimidate referees and linesmen, you could see that referees were terrified of him, and that led to PLENTY of decisions going one way.
		
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No matter how many times us United fans read this stuff, it never fails to be amusing.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 11, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			The same thing happens during during recent major tournaments when I hear you youngsters calling Spain and Germany the best teams ever seen, they seem oblivious to anything that they've nit witnessed
		
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Have I just been called a youngster?

Brazil won the first World Cup I ever saw on TV................................in 1958!


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## Papas1982 (Jan 11, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			Have I just been called a youngster?

Brazil won the first World Cup I ever saw on TV................................in 1958!
		
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You can have that of ya like. But it's more that my iPad seems to duplicate full and part words. In this case it typed you before youngsters.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 11, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			You can have that of ya like. But it's more that my iPad seems to duplicate full and part words. In this case it typed you before youngsters.
		
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Now you've gone and spoiled it!

I will just have to have another Werthers Original to overcome the disappointment.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 11, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			Now you've gone and spoiled it!

I will just have to have another Werthers Original to overcome the disappointment.

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Hard bolied I hope. Don't want you breaking a tooth.....


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## Fish (Jan 11, 2017)

Oh when the Saints &#128540;


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## richy (Jan 11, 2017)

Liverpool keeper has made 2 big saves. They could be going in 3 down.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 11, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Hard bolied I hope. Don't want you breaking a tooth.....
		
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What makes you think I've still got teeth?


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## sawtooth (Jan 11, 2017)

richy said:



			Liverpool keeper has made 2 big saves. They could be going in 3 down.
		
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Yeah but that last one was right at him, Soton striker should have buried that.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 11, 2017)

Sturridge blown over in the wind again. Can he ever stay on his feet?


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## Papas1982 (Jan 11, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah but that last one was right at him, Soton striker should have buried that.
		
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If only redmond was even remotely a striker. Makes Walcott look prolific.


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## sawtooth (Jan 11, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			If only redmond was even remotely a striker. Makes Walcott look prolific.
		
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Wow I see what you mean. Should have been 2 right there.


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## fundy (Jan 11, 2017)

great to see all the Southampton players busting a gut for their next contract


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## Papas1982 (Jan 11, 2017)

fundy said:



			great to see all the Southampton players busting a gut for their next contract 

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I wonder if pool have more staff on the bench or in the stands.....

They can have redmond next.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 11, 2017)

Missing Horrenderson and Mane big time, unfortunately don't think 1 is enough for the Saints, but more than happy to be proved wrong


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Missing Horrenderson and Mane big time, unfortunately don't think 1 is enough for the Saints, but more than happy to be proved wrong 

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I agree. I think Liverpool will definitely get a couple, minimum and can't see Southampton scoring. They seemed to lack a killer finisher


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## fundy (Jan 11, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I wonder if pool have more staff on the bench or in the stands.....

They can have redmond next.
		
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looks like a modern version of walcott to me


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## Fish (Jan 11, 2017)

I think the word all Liverpool supporters will use is relieved.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 11, 2017)

Well that 0 wins in 3.
Looks like they're getting tired &#128556;. 
Some pressure now for Sunday.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 11, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			If only redmond was even remotely a striker. Makes Walcott look prolific.
		
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He is a winger and never has been a striker so why would you now expect him to be?


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## Slime (Jan 11, 2017)

Jensen said:



			I predicted Man U's dominance would come to an end when Fergie left. Purely on the "Fergie factor" , he used to intimidate referees and linesmen, you could see that referees were terrified of him, and that led to PLENTY of decisions going one way.
		
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Ha, ha, ha, you actually believe that Utd's dominance was *purely* down to the *Fergie Factor* :rofl:.
Obviously it was nothing to do with the best players for many, many years playing some absolutely superb football.
No ................... you're right, it's purely because refs were scared of Fergie.
He played a big part for sure, but


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## Papas1982 (Jan 11, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			He is a winger and never has been a striker so why would you now expect him to be?
		
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*I Dont. 


*&#8203;but our manager is on record saying that's how he sees him in the team.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 11, 2017)

That performance was pretty rubbish, roll on Sunday.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 11, 2017)

Slime said:



			Ha, ha, ha, you actually believe that Utd's dominance was *purely* down to the *Fergie Factor* :rofl:.
Obviously it was nothing to do with the best players for many, many years playing some absolutely superb football.
No ................... you're right, it's purely because refs were scared of Fergie.
He played a big part for sure, but
		
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Your success was entirely down to fergie. Not all because of intimidation. But also he's great motivation and faith in characters. 

Yes you had some very good players. But he also got so,e great performances out of average ones. Look at the decline once he left (from a title winning side). Chelsea did you a favour last year with their shocking defence so yours doesn't look so bad, fortunately for Chelsea, leicester look to be going one worke.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 11, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			That performance was pretty rubbish, roll on Sunday.
		
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Couldn't agree more. Looking forward to that "rebound" pundits often look for.


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## Slime (Jan 11, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Your success was entirely down to fergie. Not all because of intimidation. But also he's great motivation and faith in characters. 

Yes you had some very good players. But he also got so,e great performances out of average ones. *Look at the decline once he left (from a title winning side).* Chelsea did you a favour last year with their shocking defence so yours doesn't look so bad, fortunately for Chelsea, leicester look to be going one worke.
		
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He actually left a very poor and ageing squad of players.
United stumbled to the title that year.
Of the 14 players that played in Fergie's last game, 11 have been moved on ................ and most of those went almost immediately!


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## Tarkus1212 (Jan 11, 2017)

Stamford Bridge redevelopment approved by Hammersmith & Fulham Council. Great news!


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## One Planer (Jan 11, 2017)

Tarkus1212 said:



			Stamford Bridge redevelopment approved by Hammersmith & Fulham Council. Great news!
		
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Have you seen the proposed design?

It's horrific!


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## Tarkus1212 (Jan 11, 2017)

Don't care what it looks like, functionality over form where football stadia are concerned. If the design solves the issues of getting away from the ground after matches then what it looks like is irrelevant. The Bridge is hardly a thing of beauty currently.


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## Tarkus1212 (Jan 11, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Have you seen the proposed design?

It's horrific!
		
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I don't think its that bad


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## richart (Jan 11, 2017)

Tarkus1212 said:



			Don't care what it looks like, functionality over form where football stadia are concerned. If the design solves the issues of getting away from the ground after matches then what it looks like is irrelevant. The Bridge is hardly a thing of beauty currently.
		
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Looks like a wasp's nest.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 11, 2017)

richart said:



			Looks like a wasp's nest.

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No, it will be full of B's.

Great 0-1 for us that.

Please someone else else tell me that there is a less-tarty player in the prem than Sturridge. He must be the easiest man to be physical against, bar none - is anyone worse??


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 11, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			No, it will be full of B's.

Great 0-1 for us that.

Please someone else else tell me that there is a less-tarty player in the prem than Sturridge. He must be the easiest man to be physical against, bar none - is anyone worse??
		
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Think you are right. 
Why did orighi not start Van Dyke never broke sweat marking Sturridge.
Two banks of four and Liverpool were clue less that's why they struggle against lesser sides but not against top teams because they try and play so leave more space.
we were lucky it wasn't three! it will be interesting to see how Jose sets his team.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 12, 2017)

Good to see it was all down to liverpools bad play and non good of saints.......

wasnt a a great game, but think we could easily rue not having a decent striker as should have been a couple more realistically. 

On to the 2nd leg, where hopefully sturridge starts.


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## sawtooth (Jan 12, 2017)

Liverpool having a little wobble at the moment. 

Winless in 3 in all competitions , hardly a crisis I know but some tough games coming up and now without Mane and Matip as well for best part of a month.

Will be very interesting to see how they cope.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 12, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Liverpool having a little wobble at the moment. 

Winless in 3 in all competitions , hardly a crisis I know but some tough games coming up and now without Mane and Matip as well for best part of a month.

Will be very interesting to see how they cope.
		
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Mane will be a miss but Coutinho coming back is a boost 

Matip start full training this week and could be on the bench on Saturday


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## Dan2501 (Jan 12, 2017)

Schneiderlin and Belfodil in - Cleverley out. Transfer window has started well!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 12, 2017)

Dan - I have never worked out what Cleverly does. He is like Jermaine Jenas, pointless. Good to get him moved on.

I assume Belfodil is a Walsh signing. Interesting one. Seems to have gone through a lot of clubs but hopefully he will find a home with us. We certainly need someone else to help score goals.

All very positive though. 3 signings early on in the window, no messing about. Please now go and get Begovic from the Chelsea bench. That would finish the window off nicely.


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## Dan2501 (Jan 12, 2017)

Cleverley must have something, or at least show it in training because he's had some very top level managers rate him, particularly Ferguson. I thought he'd do well at Everton, but has flopped again.

Kostas Manolas has been rumoured too. He'd be an amazing signing, exactly what we need. Probably won't happen, but he'd be a dream signing.


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## sawtooth (Jan 12, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Schneiderlin and Belfodil in - Cleverley out. Transfer window has started well!
		
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Time will tell but Schneiderlin can't be all that if he can't get a game at Utd. Fellaini and Carrick to name a couple keep him out of the side, kind of tells me all you need to know really.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 12, 2017)

No, it tells you that Mourinho is a funny bloke who likes some players and ostracises others. He has done that everywhere. Plenty have left Jose and gone on to better things. That doesn't worry me at all.

Huge statement from Bilic stating that Payet doesn't want to play for West Ham. He says they will not sell him but surely better to get the money and use it elsewhere. Not point carrying a player.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 12, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Time will tell but Schneiderlin can't be all that if he can't get a game at Utd. Fellaini and Carrick to name a couple keep him out of the side, kind of tells me all you need to know really.
		
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Mata couldn't get a game at one stage at Chelsea - some players just don't suit managers. Schneiderlin would improve the Arsenal midfield


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## freddielong (Jan 12, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Mata couldn't get a game at one stage at Chelsea - some players just don't suit managers. Schneiderlin would improve the Arsenal midfield
		
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Schneiderlin was scouted by Arsenal but it was decided he wasn't good enough, nothing has changed.


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## sawtooth (Jan 12, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Schneiderlin was scouted by Arsenal but it was decided he wasn't good enough, nothing has changed.
		
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Glad we swerved that one.&#128077;


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## Dan2501 (Jan 12, 2017)

Might not be getting a game at United, but was absolute class at Southampton, could be a fantastic signing.

Also, Mourinho not using someone is evidence of nothing. He sold Mata to United, he sold Bonucci for Â£3.4m while at Inter, he let De Bruyne leave Chelsea, same with Salah and Cuadrado, he sold Zlatan while at Inter and sold Lukaku to us for what now looks like a bargain at Â£28m. Mourinho not rating someone proves nothing.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 12, 2017)

Dan - You expanded on my post beautifully. If he does as well for us as that other Mourinho reject, big Rom, then I will be very happy.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 12, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Schneiderlin was scouted by Arsenal but it was decided he wasn't good enough, nothing has changed.
		
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Or when it came to spending the money to get him Arsenal wouldn't pay the required fee needed for the club to sell him


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## freddielong (Jan 12, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Glad we swerved that one.&#128077;
		
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Yes, very good player just not great and doesn't really excel at anything


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## freddielong (Jan 12, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or when it came to spending the money to get him Arsenal wouldn't pay the required fee needed for the club to sell him
		
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Or he was scouted on numerous occasions and we decided not to bid at all, but you add a Phil spin if it makes you feel better.


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## Fish (Jan 12, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Mata couldn't get a game at one stage at Chelsea - some players just don't suit managers. Schneiderlin would improve the Arsenal midfield
		
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This doesn't make sense to me because when Jose returned to Chelsea, Mata, who was the fans player of the season prior wouldn't do what was asked of him and expected by Jose, in that, he wanted players who lost possession in the final third to track back, not just stop in their tracks, Mata was lazy in this area of his game and as such Jose didn't start him, so, if it was just a case of 'some players don't suit managers' he wouldn't be starting or playing that much at United either, but he is.  

For me, United now have a different team set-up and formation to that of Chelsea when Mata was there so he isn't required to track back as much due to natural cover and as such gets his games in, he obviously didn't have that scenario at Chelsea so he was asked to work harder, but he didn't, if it was simply down to player/manager relationship Mata wouldn't be at United now or playing as many games as he is because of that history.

I think Moses is a casing point in this, shipped out and looked a spent force, now in a completely new formation and role he's a different player, yes that's down to a new manager but more-so because of a new formation/position.


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## Dan2501 (Jan 12, 2017)

Hmm. Doesn't seem like every Arsenal scout agrees with you.....




			And according to one Arsenal scout, who has spoken to the Secret Footballer, the Gunners had sorted a deal for Schneiderlin back in January before Wenger decided against the signing, allowing United to move in during the summer.
â€˜Itâ€™s Arsene [Wenger],â€™ the scout is quoted as saying.
â€˜Heâ€™s so indecisive itâ€™s frightening. We had [Morgan] Schneiderlin done and dusted last January and, by the summer, the gaffer had changed his mind.â€™
		
Click to expand...

Seems like they'd scouted him, were happy, had everything agreed and then Arsene couldn't get his wallet out of his pocket.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 12, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Time will tell but Schneiderlin can't be all that if he can't get a game at Utd. Fellaini and Carrick to name a couple keep him out of the side, kind of tells me all you need to know really.
		
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Trolling at it's best, you go nuts when anyone criticise's Arsenal players or manager, an Everton fan posts he's pleased with what the club are doing and your post nonsense and then expect to have your opinions respected.


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## garyinderry (Jan 12, 2017)

I think he is a great signing for Everton.  Thank god they didn't get that numpty Memphis.


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## Fish (Jan 12, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Might not be getting a game at United, but was absolute class at Southampton, could be a fantastic signing.

Also, Mourinho not using someone is evidence of nothing. He sold Mata to United, he sold Bonucci for Â£3.4m while at Inter, he let De Bruyne leave Chelsea, same with Salah and Cuadrado, he sold Zlatan while at Inter and sold Lukaku to us for what now looks like a bargain at Â£28m. Mourinho not rating someone proves nothing.
		
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I agree in part, but, I don't think it's just a case of him not rating the player per se but more so the formation and tactics that manager is trying to impose on the team and sometimes that player, who may be very gifted, simply can't adjust or play in that proposed role or formation as it's not natural to him!  

I think some managers buy players after watching their successes elsewhere but then how many times do we see those managers try to change them and play them in totally different positions and formations and those same players then struggle only then to be relegated to the bench and eventually offloaded, I'd say many if not too many!


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## fundy (Jan 12, 2017)

Schneiderlin wouldnt be an improvement on Coquelin or Xhaka or Elneny? Love to know what any of those have excelled at of late (or ever). Personally think Schneiderlin would be a decent fit for us


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 12, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Good to see it was all down to liverpools bad play and non good of saints.......
		
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Fair point if a neutral is only commenting on the one team, normally decrying the bigger team (as so often happens), but only right that as a Liverpool fan, I look at it from our perspective.

I didn't think you played brilliant football per se, however you did defend well and had some quality chances.

Only HT.

I think Schneiderlin will be a good signing for the blues, had at least 2 quality seasons at the Saints, and you would hope now also has something to prove.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 12, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Think you are right. 
Why did orighi not start Van Dyke never broke sweat marking Sturridge.
Two banks of four and Liverpool were clue less that's why they struggle against lesser sides but not against top teams because they try and play so leave more space.
we were lucky it wasn't three! it will be interesting to see how Jose sets his team.
		
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I think van Dijk will dominate most physically, but at least Origi would win a few, whereas Sturridge wins nothing in the air or on the ground, and loses most 70/30's in his favour also.

Some terrible dives also.


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## freddielong (Jan 12, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Hmm. Doesn't seem like every Arsenal scout agrees with you.....



Seems like they'd scouted him, were happy, had everything agreed and then Arsene couldn't get his wallet out of his pocket.
		
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I don't know who the secret footballer is, but I have heard from the right people that Arsene didn't see him as good enough and I believe them over a fake ex footballer.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 12, 2017)

freddielong said:



			I don't know who the secret footballer is, but I have heard from the right people that Arsene didn't see him as good enough and I believe them over a fake ex footballer.
		
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Looking at the history and the signings that Wenger has missed out on or players left because of money not offered I'm inclined to get with what the Scout has said - being indecisive about a players value just shouts Wenger. 

Soon to add Sanchez and Ozil to the list of players leaving no doubt


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## Fish (Jan 12, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looking at the history and the signings that Wenger has missed out on or players left because of money not offered I'm inclined to get with what the Scout has said - being indecisive about a players value just shouts Wenger. 

*Soon to add Sanchez and Ozil to the list of players leaving no doubt*

Click to expand...

and like many before them, going on to win more achievements at another club...


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## freddielong (Jan 12, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looking at the history and the signings that Wenger has missed out on or players left because of money not offered I'm inclined to get with what the Scout has said - being indecisive about a players value just shouts Wenger. 

Soon to add Sanchez and Ozil to the list of players leaving no doubt
		
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Ok, your free to believe what you want


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## Papas1982 (Jan 12, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Fair point if a neutral is only commenting on the one team, normally decrying the bigger team (as so often happens), but only right that as a Liverpool fan, I look at it from our perspective.

I didn't think you played brilliant football per se, however you did defend well and had some quality chances.

Only HT.

I think Schneiderlin will be a good signing for the blues, had at least 2 quality seasons at the Saints, and you would hope now also has something to prove.
		
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Lol, wasn't aimed at reds in particular. Just everyone saying you were poor. 

I agree we weren't great, but against the top teams these year we've set a stalls to defends and break and certainly think our plan was executed a lot better than yours. 

That said, without checking the bookies I'd still make you favourites. If coutinho could get a cold before the 2nd leg I'd be very happy!

i think sneiderlin will be great for Everton, didn't fit for Utd, I think he's competition was carrick, and he isn't quite as good at passing as him. But for a team that wants a ball winner, I don't think there are too many better.


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## sawtooth (Jan 12, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Hmm. Doesn't seem like every Arsenal scout agrees with you.....



Seems like they'd scouted him, were happy, had everything agreed and then Arsene couldn't get his wallet out of his pocket.
		
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Or changed his mind?


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## sawtooth (Jan 12, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Trolling at it's best, you go nuts when anyone criticise's Arsenal players or manager, an Everton fan posts he's pleased with what the club are doing and your post nonsense and then expect to have your opinions respected.
		
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Not trolling at all, just my opinion and Everton supporters have theirs. Not personal nor offensive just contrary opinions.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 12, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looking at the history and the signings that Wenger has missed out on or players left because of money not offered I'm inclined to get with what the Scout has said - being indecisive about a players value just shouts Wenger. 

Soon to add Sanchez and Ozil to the list of players leaving no doubt
		
Click to expand...

Wenger has also spent big money on signings like Ozil and Sanchez and they have proved very good signings and I am almost certain most top clubs could have bought either.

How many signings have Liverpool made over 35 million maybe only Andy Carroll and we all know how that turned out and he was not worth 20 but he was a panic buy.

We also did it with Fellani and others but all clubs do it not just Arsenal.


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## SaintHacker (Jan 12, 2017)

freddielong said:



			I don't know who the secret footballer is, but I have heard from the right people that Arsene didn't see him as good enough and I believe them over a fake ex footballer.
		
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Dave Kitson


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## freddielong (Jan 12, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looking at the history and the signings that Wenger has missed out on or players left because of money not offered I'm inclined to get with what the Scout has said - being indecisive about a players value just shouts Wenger. 

Soon to add Sanchez and Ozil to the list of players leaving no doubt
		
Click to expand...

Anyway from what I heard Ozil and Sanchez are not about money as the club and players are around similar numbers,  Ã–zil wants reassurances that Arsene will sign and if Wenger extends Ã–zil will sign within a couple of weeks. Sanchez is a little harder as he doesn't think the training is hard enough and with the right intensity, he doesn't think the team are pushed enough and that he will probably leave.


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## Fish (Jan 12, 2017)

Advice for West Ham fans reading about Payet refusal to play for them...


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 12, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No, it tells you that Mourinho is a funny bloke who likes some players and ostracises others. He has done that everywhere. Plenty have left Jose and gone on to better things. That doesn't worry me at all.

Huge statement from Bilic stating that Payet doesn't want to play for West Ham. He says they will not sell him but surely better to get the money and use it elsewhere. Not point carrying a player.
		
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Would really like to see West Ham make a really big statement and let him rot in the reserves 

I reckon I'm the only one who thinks he is a touch overrated as well


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## sawtooth (Jan 12, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would really like to see West Ham make a really big statement and let him rot in the reserves 

*I reckon I'm the only one who thinks he is a touch overrated as well*

Click to expand...

Yes you probably are.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 12, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would really like to see West Ham make a really big statement and let him rot in the reserves 

I reckon I'm the only one who thinks he is a touch overrated as well
		
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sawtooth said:



			Yes you probably are. 

Click to expand...

Payet is way too good for WH and wants to leave probably to better his chances of a trophy absolutely no different to wanting to change jobs to a better company.

Why let him rot in the reserves?many managers have tried this and in the end they sell them.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 12, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would really like to see West Ham make a really big statement and let him rot in the reserves 

I reckon I'm the only one who thinks he is a touch overrated as well
		
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Yes he looked way overated at the Euros
Another Neymar moment?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 12, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Yes he looked way overated at the Euros
Another Neymar moment?
		
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Don't remember the calls for Sterling to rot in the reserves!


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## pbrown7582 (Jan 12, 2017)

tarkus1212 said:



			don't care what it looks like, functionality over form where football stadia are concerned. If the design solves the issues of getting away from the ground after matches then what it looks like is irrelevant. The bridge is hardly a thing of beauty currently.
		
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it will make it worse 50% more people to disperse!


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## sawtooth (Jan 12, 2017)

Payet would improve Arsenal.


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## Dan2501 (Jan 12, 2017)

If Payet wanted to jump he should have done it after a great season with West Ham and a brilliant Euros. Have to feel his stock has dropped a bit now, and the interest from the big boys may have disappeared. Could end up stuck at West Ham having pissed off the club, the fans and the rest of the team with no-one else willing to pay his wages.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 12, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			If Payet wanted to jump he should have done it after a great season with West Ham and a brilliant Euros. Have to feel his stock has dropped a bit now, and the interest from the big boys may have disappeared. Could end up stuck at West Ham having pissed off the club, the fans and the rest of the team with no-one else willing to pay his wages.
		
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No I don't think so there is always some club after his quality and of course there is always China.

I would still like him at a club to win trophies but with most now its about the money.


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## richart (Jan 12, 2017)

freddielong said:



			I don't know who the secret footballer is, but I have heard from the right people that Arsene didn't see him as good enough and I believe them over a fake ex footballer.
		
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Dave Kitson, or as he was known at Reading Dave Kitson what a bargain.  We had a ginger day for one game, loads of ginger wigs worn. Steve Sidwell was well up for it, but Kitson got the right hump. strange bloke.


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## sawtooth (Jan 12, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			If Payet wanted to jump he should have done it after a great season with West Ham and a brilliant Euros. Have to feel his stock has dropped a bit now, and the interest from the big boys may have disappeared. Could end up stuck at West Ham having pissed off the club, the fans and the rest of the team with no-one else willing to pay his wages.
		
Click to expand...

He will go in the window now I reckon no way back from that.

He'll be no good for West Ham now and they will want the money in to buy someone else sooner rather than later.


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## Fish (Jan 12, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			He will go in the window now I reckon no way back from that.

He'll be no good for West Ham now and they will want the money in to buy someone else sooner rather than later.
		
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Well they've just turned down Marseille!  The video from Bilic is excellent and really shows the player for what he is, if he wasn't happy why sign an extension to your contract well before it was due, has he been 'tapped up' as Bilic states?  Personally if he refuses to play I wouldn't pay his wages and put him on ice.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 12, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Fair point if a neutral is only commenting on the one team, normally decrying the bigger team (as so often happens), but only right that as a Liverpool fan, I look at it from our perspective.

I didn't think you played brilliant football per se, however you did defend well and had some quality chances.

Only HT.

I think Schneiderlin will be a good signing for the blues, had at least 2 quality seasons at the Saints, and you would hope now also has something to prove.
		
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liverpools problem is when a team plays two banks of four they don't seem to be able to get through the lines .
But when a team does this and concedes 70% possession they should not lose the game.
0-0 would have been ok but to lose was very poor and it could have been worse but for bad finishing by saints.
can only remember Forster making one save and that was right at him.
How Can stayed on that long amazed me he is to slow and needs two touches to control the ball.


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## sawtooth (Jan 12, 2017)

Fish said:



			Well they've just turned down Marseille!  The video from Bilic is excellent and really shows the player for what he is, if he wasn't happy why sign an extension to your contract well before it was due, has he been 'tapped up' as Bilic states?  Personally if he refuses to play I wouldn't pay his wages and put him on ice.
		
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I feel a bit for Bilic and admire his stance but at the end of the day they won't keep a player at a club against his wishes. It just won't happen.

No club would accept the first offer, West Ham know that a few clubs would be interested and they will hold out for the highest bid naturally. 

City, PSG ,Utd and Chelsea are the favourites most likely to land him.

If he is less concerned about the money then it could also be Arsenal or Marseille to name a couple.


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## richy (Jan 12, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I reckon I'm the only one who thinks he is a touch overrated as well
		
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Yup and wouldn't be the first time you were wrong


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 12, 2017)

richy said:



			Yup and wouldn't be the first time you were wrong
		
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It's called "an opinion" 

As you can see all the Top Clubs who have queued up to buy him before West Ham and the top clubs queuing right now - or maybe he just had one season at the top. I'm guessing there must be a reason why he has been a bit of a big fish at small clubs during his career


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## richy (Jan 12, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's called "an opinion" 

As you can see all the Top Clubs who have queued up to buy him before West Ham and the top clubs queuing right now - or maybe he just had one season at the top. I'm guessing there must be a reason why he has been a bit of a big fish at small clubs during his career
		
Click to expand...

So loads of other people comment along the same lines as me yet you only single me out? 

Why me? Why Phil, why?

I feel so victimised 

Sound familiar?


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 12, 2017)

Payet is behaving like a complete knob,but football is full of them. 
Wonder if West Ham/Billic would have a problem with it if one of their targets behaved like this to force a move.


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## richy (Jan 12, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Payet is behaving like a complete knob,but football is full of them. 
Wonder if West Ham/Billic would have a problem with it if one of their targets behaved like this to force a move.
		
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I think he has previous so in a way they knew what was they were getting. 

Still doesn't make it any better for the fans.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 12, 2017)

richy said:



			I think he has previous so in a way they knew what was they were getting. 

Still doesn't make it any better for the fans.
		
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It's pathetic mate,but hardly surprising. 
Too many Diva's in the game now.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 12, 2017)

As much as I'd like West Ham to stand strong and back the manager's decision to rot, and he's not allowed anywhere near the first team at the moment, it's a business and sooner or later they'll have to cut their losses and move him on. Not sure who'll take him but you wouldn't bet against Payet doing it again


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## Stuart_C (Jan 12, 2017)

Allegedly he's refused to play for West Ham,  I wonder if he still expects to be paid by West Ham?

There's ways of getting a move, refusing to play is shysters way about it.


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## richy (Jan 12, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Allegedly he's refused to play for West Ham,  I wonder if he still expects to be paid by West Ham?

There's ways of getting a move, refusing to play is shysters way about it.
		
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Exactly. Surely if he's refusing to play then he's in breach of his contract therefore doesn't deserve paying?


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## sawtooth (Jan 12, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Allegedly he's refused to play for West Ham,  I wonder if he still expects to be paid by West Ham?

There's ways of getting a move, refusing to play is shysters way about it.
		
Click to expand...

I shouldn't think so its a clear breach of contract. He'll be gone by the end of this window its just a matter of where. His antics though will put a lot of managers off that's for sure.

I can only think of one club in England that would take him no questions asked.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 12, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I shouldn't think so its a clear breach of contract. He'll be gone by the end of this window its just a matter of where. His antics though will put a lot of managers off that's for sure.

I can only think of one club in England that would take him no questions asked. 

Click to expand...

He wouldn't go to Everton


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## pokerjoke (Jan 12, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Payet is behaving like a complete knob,but football is full of them. 
Wonder if West Ham/Billic would have a problem with it if one of their targets behaved like this to force a move.
		
Click to expand...

I have not read any stories about what has been said but these situations can also be 2 sided.

I have read loads of stories where players have fallen out of favour with the manager and have also been left to rot either with the reserves or on the bench with no chance of getting on the field.

It seems to me that clubs can ruin a players career but a player cant move on.

Do we really know the whole story.

I don't see much difference to what Sanchez is doing at Arsenal where he doesn't think the players around him or the training is good enough or hard enough so will probably move on because he feels he cant win things with Arsenal.

Ozil has said I believe that he wont sign a new contract until he knows Arsene Wengers future well does he want to continue playing for Arsenal or not.

Maybe Payet is going about it the wrong way but these players have advisors also.

I cant remember one player that has been left to rot for too long when they are a valuable asset they are always sold on.

Of course Payet has not damaged his reputation loads of players have done a lot worse and been bought for massive fees.


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## Dan2501 (Jan 12, 2017)

Everton just had to go and ruin it by giving Schneiderlin number 2 didn't they. That number should have been retired when the great man left.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 12, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			I have not read any stories about what has been said but these situations can also be 2 sided.

I have read loads of stories where players have fallen out of favour with the manager and have also been left to rot either with the reserves or on the bench with no chance of getting on the field.

It seems to me that clubs can ruin a players career but a player cant move on.

Do we really know the whole story.

I don't see much difference to what Sanchez is doing at Arsenal where he doesn't think the players around him or the training is good enough or hard enough so will probably move on because he feels he cant win things with Arsenal.

Ozil has said I believe that he wont sign a new contract until he knows Arsene Wengers future well does he want to continue playing for Arsenal or not.

Maybe Payet is going about it the wrong way but these players have advisors also.

I cant remember one player that has been left to rot for too long when they are a valuable asset they are always sold on.

Of course Payet has not damaged his reputation loads of players have done a lot worse and been bought for massive fees.
		
Click to expand...

If Sanchez wants to move on then I can't see the problem? 
Has he refused to play?


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## pokerjoke (Jan 12, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			If Sanchez wants to move on then I can't see the problem? 
Has he refused to play?
		
Click to expand...

No but there are many ways to get a move.

I read that Sanchez has questioned the fitness of other squad members and obviously Wengers training methods this can also be very damaging.

As I stated usually two side to all stories and there is too much speculation surrounding this story[probably].


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 12, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			No but there are many ways to get a move.

I read that Sanchez has questioned the fitness of other squad members and obviously Wengers training methods this can also be very damaging.

As I stated usually two side to all stories and there is too much speculation surrounding this story[probably].
		
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Yeah,tbf people believe what they want to believe. 

If a player wants a move they should hand in a transfer request,if the club says no Then that should be the end of it. 

But if you were a player at a mid table team with no chance of winning anything,
& one of the Big boys come in for you & offered you a big increase in pay what would you do?


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## sawtooth (Jan 12, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			No but there are many ways to get a move.

I read that Sanchez has questioned the fitness of other squad members and obviously Wengers training methods this can also be very damaging.

As I stated usually two side to all stories and there is too much speculation surrounding this story[probably].
		
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I don't think Sanchez is a bad egg at all, I prefer to believe that his passion to do well and cant stand losing attitude got the better of him. You can see how hard he tries on the pitch and even plays when he's not 100% or when he just got back from Chile. Plenty of evidence to suggest that he is nothing but highly motivated.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 12, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I don't think Sanchez is a bad egg at all, I prefer to believe that his passion to do well and cant stand losing attitude got the better of him. You can see how hard he tries on the pitch and even plays when he's not 100% or when he just got back from Chile. Plenty of evidence to suggest that he is nothing but highly motivated.
		
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I agree I don't think he is either but he has done some damage by even questioning it.

I just think now he doesn't believe his team mates are good enough to get him where he wants to go.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 12, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			I agree I don't think he is either but he has done some damage by even questioning it.

I just think now he doesn't believe his team mates are good enough to get him where he wants to go.
		
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Hardly surprising that's how he feels considering the club he left.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 12, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Everton just had to go and ruin it by giving Schneiderlin number 2 didn't they. That number should have been retired when the great man left.
		
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Ha ha. I got it &#128587;. At least he stayed within 1-11. Old school.


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## sawtooth (Jan 12, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			I agree I don't think he is either but he has done some damage by even questioning it.

I just think now he doesn't believe his team mates are good enough to get him where he wants to go.
		
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If he said that at all then it was probably designed to get a positive reaction IMO.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 12, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			If he said that at all then it was probably designed to get a positive reaction IMO.
		
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Do you not think it's a bit disrespectful to question your team mates fitness in public?


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## sawtooth (Jan 12, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Do you not think it's a bit disrespectful to question your team mates fitness in public?
		
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What did you read and where?


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 12, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Payet would improve Arsenal.
		
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Player/manager?

Could just work.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 12, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			liverpools problem is when a team plays two banks of four they don't seem to be able to get through the lines .
But when a team does this and concedes 70% possession they should not lose the game.
0-0 would have been ok but to lose was very poor and it could have been worse but for bad finishing by saints.
can only remember Forster making one save and that was right at him.
How Can stayed on that long amazed me he is to slow and needs two touches to control the ball.
		
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Our worst 3 players were Sturridge, Lallana and Can. Lallana and Can got caught on the ball far too many times. Lallana's first touch was abysmal last night (unusually so), but fair play we're all allowed a bad game.


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## sawtooth (Jan 13, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Player/manager?

Could just work.
		
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That's a bit harsh.

Remind me what Klopp has achieved at Liverpool? &#128077;


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## Tarkus1212 (Jan 13, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			it will make it worse 50% more people to disperse!
		
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That was always the reason previous proposals had been rejected. I have to assume that the latest scheme addresses the issues of dispersion, if so then its a win win for everyone including local residents.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 13, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			That's a bit harsh.

Remind me what Klopp has achieved at Liverpool? &#62541;
		
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Just a joke, Sean.

He's won my admiration, respect and ignited belief, hope, leadership and a great all-round feel-good factor at Anfield. It may win us nothing, but so far, after only 14 months, its like being on a rollercoaster, and loving it.:thup:     it must feel like being on the waltzers being a goner, round and round, seeing the same stuff over and over again.


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## sawtooth (Jan 13, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Just a joke, Sean.

He's won my admiration, respect and ignited belief, hope, leadership and a great all-round feel-good factor at Anfield. It may win us nothing, but so far, after only 14 months, its like being on a rollercoaster, and loving it.:thup:     it must feel like being on the waltzers being a goner, round and round, seeing the same stuff over and over again. 

Click to expand...

Sorry I didn't see a smiley so took it as a full on attack &#128522;

Actually I quite like the waltzer and don't want it to end.


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## Tarkus1212 (Jan 13, 2017)

Reports of a "training ground bust-up" between Conte and Costa, Costa dropped for trip to Leicester according to the Daily Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...n-doesn-t-travel-clash-against-Leicester.html

Worrying....


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## Rlburnside (Jan 13, 2017)

QUOTE=Tarkus1212;1633007]Reports of a "training ground bust-up" between Conte and Costa, Costa dropped for trip to Leicester according to the Daily Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...n-doesn-t-travel-clash-against-Leicester.html

Worrying....[/QUOTE]

Good News


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## Fish (Jan 13, 2017)

Tarkus1212 said:



			Reports of a "training ground bust-up" between Conte and Costa, Costa dropped for trip to Leicester according to the Daily Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...n-doesn-t-travel-clash-against-Leicester.html

Worrying....
		
Click to expand...

I'm not worried, nobody is bigger than the club, and if it's a ploy for a quick big money move to China, then so be it, take the millions and spend them well, we've still won and played just as well without him at times and I fully back the manager,  If it happens it could actually act as a new injection through the squad as everyone steps up to the plate for Conte. 

Bring it on.....Flyin' high......


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## pokerjoke (Jan 13, 2017)

The greed in football is becoming just as bad as football itself.

I for one have started to watch less and less and when I do finally settle down and watch a game the cheating makes me turn off.

If the allegations are true but of course at this stage its once again all speculation I feel for Conte although he will get over it,Costa has been a revelation this year compared to the last and Chelsea need him imo.


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## richy (Jan 13, 2017)

It's been reported he's been offered 30mil a year if he moves to China. 

That is mental!!


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 13, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			The greed in football is becoming just as bad as football itself.

I for one have started to watch less and less and when I do finally settle down and watch a game the cheating makes me turn off.

If the allegations are true but of course at this stage its once again all speculation I feel for Conte although he will get over it,Costa has been a revelation this year compared to the last and Chelsea need him imo.
		
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Agree with this,cheating as actually become a bit of an art for the modern footballer. 

And then you get the idiots defending a playing when he's blatantly took a dive.


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## freddielong (Jan 13, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Agree with this,cheating as actually become a bit of an art for the modern footballer. 

And then you get the idiots defending a playing when he's blatantly took a dive.
		
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All that, look if you look really closely there was slight contact so he's entitled to go down.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 13, 2017)

freddielong said:



			All that, look if you look really closely there was slight contact so he's entitled to go down.
		
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That's the worst one. 
No they don't have the right to go down,they should go down if the challenge takes them down. 
Sturridge is a prime example,the slightest touch and he's looking to get a penalty/free kick. 
He's certainly not alone,but he's as bad as it gets.


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## sawtooth (Jan 13, 2017)

Tarkus1212 said:



			Reports of a "training ground bust-up" between Conte and Costa, Costa dropped for trip to Leicester according to the Daily Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...n-doesn-t-travel-clash-against-Leicester.html

Worrying....
		
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Vampire v Werewolf , it was never going to work.:rofl:


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 14, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			That's the worst one. 
No they don't have the right to go down,they should go down if the challenge takes them down. 
Sturridge is a prime example,the slightest touch and he's looking to get a penalty/free kick. 
He's certainly not alone,but he's as bad as it gets.
		
Click to expand...


But every commentary you hear the same sentence "make the referee make a descision". It's been embeded in the game for years, since Francis Lee was the first acknowleged guily party/practitioner.
It isn't nice, but do we really think anything will change?


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 14, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			It isn't nice, but do we really think anything will change?
		
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if anything it'll only get worse. 
We now get pundits looking at an incident from lots of different angles,in slow mo to see if there was the slightest of contacts. 
If yes then apparently it's a penalty. 
Pathetic.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 14, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			if anything it'll only get worse. 
We now get pundits looking at an incident from lots of different angles,in slow mo to see if there was the slightest of contacts. 
If yes then apparently it's a penalty. 
Pathetic.
		
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I agree, but thats the modern game and media coverage. 
Do we complain as much when it's for the national team?...I would wager we don't.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 14, 2017)

Andy Carroll just scored a beauty.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 14, 2017)

This will be interesting to see how they're dealt with.

http://www.thefa.com/news/2017/jan/11/manchester-city-charged-fa-rules-anti-doping


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 14, 2017)

The scrap for 2nd in the Premier League is hotting up :whoo:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 14, 2017)

Very good performance from Chelsea this evening.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 14, 2017)

What's up with Sanchez? Team doing well 4-0 up and acts like a big kid when sub'd, I admire any sportsman with a winning attitude, but the photos of him behaving like a kn8b are ridiculous.


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## freddielong (Jan 14, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			What's up with Sanchez? Team doing well 4-0 up and acts like a big kid when sub'd, I admire any sportsman with a winning attitude, but the photos of him behaving like a kn8b are ridiculous.
		
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He hates not playing football he lives for it, he only played 80 minutes he wanted the full 90.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 14, 2017)

Massive game tomos really need a win and a good performance would be nice also.

Very impressed with Chelsea today but Leicester were woeful so much lack of ambition and looked like they were scared to lose.
Also need a plan B as the quick ball over the top to Vardy is no-more.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 14, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Massive game tomos really need a win and a good performance would be nice also.

Very impressed with Chelsea today but Leicester were woeful so much lack of ambition and looked like they were scared to lose.
Also need a plan B as the quick ball over the top to Vardy is no-more.
		
Click to expand...

How the hell did they win the league last season?


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## pokerjoke (Jan 14, 2017)

freddielong said:



			He hates not playing football he lives for it, he only played 80 minutes he wanted the full 90.
		
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I agree that's what he wants but he needs to look at the bigger picture and not be so selfish,i think Wenger had a cheeky grin about it in his interview.


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## freddielong (Jan 14, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			I agree that's what he wants but he needs to look at the bigger picture and not be so selfish,i think Wenger had a cheeky grin about it in his interview.
		
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Absolutely agree you can't have the rest of the team being brought down after a good win, the guy would play every second of every game if he was allowed, he does press ups at training while Arsene is describing drills or talking to the squad, he is a machine.


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## SaintHacker (Jan 14, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			This will be interesting to see how they're dealt with.

http://www.thefa.com/news/2017/jan/11/manchester-city-charged-fa-rules-anti-doping

Click to expand...

As with most things involving mega rich clubs and the premier league, a large rug and a brush will be involved...


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## pokerjoke (Jan 14, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			How the hell did they win the league last season?
		
Click to expand...

Confidence and it got stronger every game and the whole country was behind them.
The confidence has gone and there in a dog fight,ive no doubt they will survive though.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 14, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Absolutely agree you can't have the rest of the team being brought down after a good win, the guy would play every second of every game if he was allowed, he does press ups at training while Arsene is describing drills or talking to the squad, he is a machine.
		
Click to expand...

I would see that as being disrespectful but I suppose you have to be there to understand.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 14, 2017)

freddielong said:



			He hates not playing football he lives for it, he only played 80 minutes he wanted the full 90.
		
Click to expand...

Superb footballer, but no need to act like a brat, it isn't the first time he's been subbed and won't be the last, you'd hope he'd want people talking about his ability and performance rather than discussing him hiding under a coat


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 14, 2017)

SaintHacker said:



			As with most things involving mega rich clubs and the premier league, a large rug and a brush will be involved...

Click to expand...

They'll get a big fine, nowt else they can do, the charge is against the Club not individuals.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2017)

Sanchez wants to win - and win the big trophies , he is one player that would take from Arsenal , his work ethic is amazing , the match against Bournemouth was prob a penny dropping for him that some in the team just don't seem to care about the team - 3 minutes left , Sanchez is desperate to get the game going again to get a winner - what's Giroud doing - some stupid dance celebrating. 

He knows he won't win a big trophy at Arsenal and it's frustrating for him - expect him to be at Madrid or City next year


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 14, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sanchez wants to win - and win the big trophies , he is one player that would take from Arsenal , his work ethic is amazing , the match against Bournemouth was prob a penny dropping for him that some in the team just don't seem to care about the team - 3 minutes left , Sanchez is desperate to get the game going again to get a winner - what's Giroud doing - some stupid dance celebrating. 

He knows he won't win a big trophy at Arsenal and it's frustrating for him - expect him to be at Madrid or City next year
		
Click to expand...

On that basis every Liverpool must be frustrated & that must be why their top players jump ship.


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## freddielong (Jan 14, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sanchez wants to win - and win the big trophies , he is one player that would take from Arsenal , his work ethic is amazing , the match against Bournemouth was prob a penny dropping for him that some in the team just don't seem to care about the team - 3 minutes left , Sanchez is desperate to get the game going again to get a winner - what's Giroud doing - some stupid dance celebrating. 

He knows he won't win a big trophy at Arsenal and it's frustrating for him - expect him to be at Madrid or City next year
		
Click to expand...

Blah blah blah yeah got a chance to turn something into a pathetic little dig at Arsenal, you are predictable and pathetic.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Blah blah blah yeah got a chance to turn something into a pathetic little dig at Arsenal, you are predictable and pathetic.
		
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Not turned anything - it's quite clear watching him that something is wrong , not signing a new contract , going the same way as all the others that have left over the last decade - moving on to win trophies. 

It's not pathetic nor a dig - it's an assessment on what I think is going on with him - throwing your toys out just allows you to mask the issue.


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## One Planer (Jan 14, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sanchez wants to win - and win the big trophies , he is one player that would take from Arsenal , his work ethic is amazing , the match against Bournemouth was prob a penny dropping for him that some in the team just don't seem to care about the team - 3 minutes left , Sanchez is desperate to get the game going again to get a winner - what's Giroud doing - some stupid dance celebrating. 

He knows he won't win a big trophy at Arsenal and it's frustrating for him - expect him to be at Madrid or City next year
		
Click to expand...

Same with Suarez, Sterling and Alonso then?


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## sawtooth (Jan 14, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sanchez wants to win - and win the big trophies , he is one player that would take from Arsenal , his work ethic is amazing , the match against Bournemouth was prob a penny dropping for him that some in the team just don't seem to care about the team - 3 minutes left , Sanchez is desperate to get the game going again to get a winner - what's Giroud doing - some stupid dance celebrating. 

He knows he won't win a big trophy at Arsenal and it's frustrating for him - expect him to be at Madrid or City next year
		
Click to expand...

Why not Liverpool? Don't you think  that he could win a big trophy with you?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Same with Suarez, Sterling and Alonso then?
		
Click to expand...

Correct - that's exactly why they left , we weren't in CL and they moved on to win and compete at clubs that would give them a better chance to win the titles

But what do they have to do with Sanchez ?


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 14, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Blah blah blah yeah got a chance to turn something into a pathetic little dig at Arsenal, you are predictable and pathetic.
		
Click to expand...

He really is like a broken record. 
He must have missed all the players leaving his beloved Liverpool due to lack of success & ambition.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Why not Liverpool? Don't you think  that he could win a big trophy with you?
		
Click to expand...

He turned us down once before - don't see him coming to Liverpool


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 14, 2017)

Just ignore him,if he doesn't get the attention that he obviously craves he might get bored & turn his attention to something else.


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## sawtooth (Jan 14, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He turned us down once before - don't see him coming to Liverpool
		
Click to expand...

That's interesting, Liverpool weren't good enough for him then and you think it will be the same now with Klopp?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 14, 2017)

Interesting game tomorrow and if United win they go level on points with City. The top six now a mini league and so each definitely archetypal six pointers. If anything City look the weakest of them all which given their spend and getting Pep in seems funny


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 14, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Interesting game tomorrow and if United win they go level on points with City. The top six now a mini league and so each definitely archetypal six pointers. If anything City look the weakest of them all which given their spend and getting Pep in seems funny
		
Click to expand...

Surely that depends on the City result?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			That's interesting, Liverpool weren't good enough for him then and you think it will be the same now with Klopp?
		
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Don't believe I said anything about any team not being good enough for him then or now 

I just don't see us signing Sanchez , don't see Klopp going for him when he looks to leave in the summer


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 14, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Surely that depends on the City result?
		
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Indeed but fancy an Everton win


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 14, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Indeed but fancy an Everton win
		
Click to expand...

Don't say that! You're a jinx with your predictions on here


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## sawtooth (Jan 14, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Don't believe I said anything about any team not being good enough for him then or now 

I just don't see us signing Sanchez , don't see Klopp going for him when he looks to leave in the summer
		
Click to expand...

Well if he turned you down you obviously wasn't good enough for him, you didn't have to say it.

FWIW I agree, I also think Sanchez wouldn't go to Liverpool even if Klopp is now there.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 14, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Don't say that! You're a jinx with your predictions on here 

Click to expand...

OK City to win in the last minute. Happy :cheers::thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 14, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			OK City to win in the last minute. Happy :cheers::thup:
		
Click to expand...

Cheers, guaranteed the 3 points now :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Well if he turned you down you obviously wasn't good enough for him, you didn't have to say it.

FWIW I agree, I also think Sanchez wouldn't go to Liverpool even if Klopp is now there.
		
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Sanchez will end up at Madrid I believe - will replace Benzema who will end up at PSG with Verratti going to Barce.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 14, 2017)

Sorry Paul but I'm going for a Manc double tomorrow.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 14, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sanchez will end up at Madrid I believe - will replace Benzema who will end up at PSG with Verratti going to Barce.
		
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Wow looks like you've got it all worked out Phil. 
But you was adamant that Suarez wasn't leaving,so I don't know what to believe now &#128514;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 14, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Sorry Paul but I'm going for a Manc double tomorrow.
		
Click to expand...

2 home wins for me :whoo:


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## Fish (Jan 14, 2017)

Manc double for me also &#128540;


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## sawtooth (Jan 14, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sanchez will end up at Madrid I believe - will replace Benzema who will end up at PSG with Verratti going to Barce.
		
Click to expand...


You might be right but you don't seem to have any belief that Liverpool can win big trophies.

Serious question, when do you think Liverpool can compete for a big trophy?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 14, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			You might be right but you don't seem to have any belief that Liverpool can win big trophies.

Serious question, when do you think Liverpool can compete for a big trophy?
		
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Chances are they'll be in the league cup final so a golden chance there


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			You might be right but you don't seem to have any belief that Liverpool can win big trophies.

Serious question, when do you think Liverpool can compete for a big trophy?
		
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Are we onto a different subject now ? When did I say I don't have belief that we can win big trophies ?

As for your question - we could we be competing for a big trophy this season, have to see how it goes and then with Klopp can see us building further to mount challenges for big trophies each season.


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## sawtooth (Jan 14, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Chances are they'll be in the league cup final so a golden chance there
		
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Maybe league cup is not considered a big trophy Homer.


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## sawtooth (Jan 14, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are we onto a different subject now ? When did I say I don't have belief that we can win big trophies ?

As for your question - we could we be competing for a big trophy this season, have to see how it goes and then with Klopp can see us building further to mount challenges for big trophies each season.
		
Click to expand...

When you said Sanchez wanted to leave Arsenal because he knows that he won't win a big trophy there. You said that he could go to Madrid or City next year. 

You didn't list Liverpool I was just curious to know why.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			When you said Sanchez wanted to leave Arsenal because he knows that he won't win a big trophy there. You said that he could go to Madrid or City next year. 

You didn't list Liverpool I was just curious to know why.
		
Click to expand...

Because that's the clubs I see going for him during the summer when he will be looking to leave - as already said I don't see Klopp going for him. Nothing to do with any belief I have in my own team challenging for trophies.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 14, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			When you said Sanchez wanted to leave Arsenal because he knows that he won't win a big trophy there. You said that he could go to Madrid or City next year. 

You didn't list Liverpool I was just curious to know why.
		
Click to expand...

Serious question Sean why would Sanchez leave a club he believes the players around him are not good enough to win trophies and go to another one with less good players.

If Arsenal show some ambition and buy world class players he will stay if not he will go to a club that does and I don't believe that will be in England imo.


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## Tiger man (Jan 14, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Sorry Paul but I'm going for a Manc double tomorrow.
		
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I'm going for a 1-1 draw in the red game and 1-2 Citeh win.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 14, 2017)

Tiger man said:



			I'm going for a 1-1 draw in the red game and 1-2 Citeh win.
		
Click to expand...

Nothing would surprise me in either game tbh. 
Everton look poor,but it depends which City turn up. 
Jose looks to have got something going at UTD,Pogba & Ibra look quality. Liverpool struggling recently & Klopp doesn't seem to be have a plan B. 
Should be a decent Super Sunday.


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## sawtooth (Jan 14, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Serious question Sean why would Sanchez leave a club he believes the players around him are not good enough to win trophies and go to another one with less good players.

If Arsenal show some ambition and buy world class players he will stay if not he will go to a club that does and I don't believe that will be in England imo.
		
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I wasn't really suggesting he should leave to go to Liverpool Tony.

Phil said that Sanchez would seek out a club that he could win a big trophy with and he gave examples. 

He didn't list Liverpool so I was naturally curious to know why.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 14, 2017)

http://talksport.com/football/best-...-owner-ranked-worst-first-current-performance


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## stokie_93 (Jan 14, 2017)

Up The Potters!

Marko Arnautovic is the man. 
I slightly forgive Hughes after last weeks atrosity. Let's take it to Man Ure next weekend. :thup:


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## Jensen (Jan 14, 2017)

Hats off to Alexis Sanchez for sulking when he was taken off.
The boy clearly loves to play and it's refreshing to see, all credit to him


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 15, 2017)

Never confident going to OT, but just hope the linesman brush up again on the offside rule.

I see we're back to answering all Arsenal questions with Liverpool in the sentence........yawn.

Sanchez, wonderful player and a great attitude in so many ways, but some of his antics recently are disrespectful to some of his team mates.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 15, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Serious question Sean why would Sanchez leave a club he believes the players around him are not good enough to win trophies and go to another one with less good players.

If Arsenal show some ambition and buy world class players he will stay if not he will go to a club that does and I don't believe that will be in England imo.
		
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Was his heart on going to Arsenal in the first place, rumours are abound that he was on his way to City til the transfer embargo was placed on city a couple of years ago.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 15, 2017)

Andy Carroll goal of the season so far? 
Better than Giroud's for me.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 15, 2017)

Obviously as a city fan am gonna say that was a penalty, clattenburg didn't give it. Sterling appealed for it so why did clattenburg not book him for diving. Which he didn't.


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## One Planer (Jan 15, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Obviously as a city fan am gonna say that was a penalty, clattenburg didn't give it. Sterling appealed for it so why did clattenburg not book him for diving. Which he didn't.
		
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Because not all contact in the penalty area should lead to a penalty.


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## Fish (Jan 15, 2017)

That's a very good team goal &#128077;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Keep this to half time at a minimum &#128079;&#127995;


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## bluewolf (Jan 15, 2017)

Fish said:



			That's a very good team goal &#128077;
		
Click to expand...

Could do with a few more as I've got money riding on 7 or more goals over the 2 games.....


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Obviously as a city fan am gonna say that was a penalty, clattenburg didn't give it. Sterling appealed for it so why did clattenburg not book him for diving. Which he didn't.
		
Click to expand...

Tbh Tash, there is contact, but certainly not a foul, Quinn's going on about entitlement to go down, it's the scourge of the game and all teams will appeal in those instances, anywhere else on the field the players wouldn't appeal they'd just get on with it, it seems it's only a contact sport outside the 18yd box.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 15, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Because not all contact in the penalty area should lead to a penalty.
		
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True, but that one was nailed on.

In the ref's defence his view of the contact from the goalkeeper would have been obscured by the defender sliding in.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

bluewolf said:



			Could do with a few more as I've got money riding on 7 or more goals over the 2 games.....
		
Click to expand...

We'll let this game stay as it is and Utd to win 6-0, that'll keep us both happy :rofl:


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## bluewolf (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			We'll let this game stay as it is and Utd to win 6-0, that'll keep us both happy :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

I'd take that mate


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## garyinderry (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Tbh Tash, there is contact, but certainly not a foul, Quinn's going on about entitlement to go down, it's the scourge of the game and all teams will appeal in those instances, anywhere else on the field the players wouldn't appeal they'd just get on with it, it seems it's only a contact sport outside the 18yd box.
		
Click to expand...


Quite clear on the replay there was more than enough contact to be a foul.   got lucky,  the ref may have been slightly distracted by Baines sliding in.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 15, 2017)

Welcome to the Prem Pep &#128514;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Quite clear on the replay there was more than enough contact to be a foul.   got lucky,  the ref may have been slightly distracted by Baines sliding in.
		
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But surely a player expects some contact on the pitch and anywhere else they'd try stay on their feet, it happens that much in the box we'd end up with 8 pens a game!


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## Papas1982 (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			But surely a player expects some contact on the pitch and anywhere else they'd try stay on their feet, it happens that much in the box we'd end up with 8 pens a game!
		
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I'm not convinced it was a pen, and i hate the phrase "he's entitles to go down", but, If its elsewhere on the pitch there could be any number of reasons to stay on your feet, may a break is on, or its miles from goal so a free kick is no help. But when in the box, the biggest advanatge unless able to shoot is take the opportunity of a pen.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			But surely a player expects some contact on the pitch and anywhere else they'd try stay on their feet, it happens that much in the box we'd end up with 8 pens a game!
		
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If a player is running and then attempts to jump over a diving keeper who then clips his leg he will find it difficult to stay on his feet when landing.

That was a penalty every day of the week and you would be moaning if it had been say Bravo on Lukaku and not given.


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## The Evertonian (Jan 15, 2017)

Looks like it's gonna be a long half hour


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			If a player is running and then attempts to jump over a diving keeper who then clips his leg he will find it difficult to stay on his feet when landing.

That was a penalty every day of the week and you would be moaning if it had been say Bravo on Lukaku and not given.
		
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If you take the time to read all posts I've already stated every team would call for it and there was contact, it still doesn't make it right though, has the keeper clipped his leg or is the forward trailing a leg looking for contact?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I'm not convinced it was a pen, and i hate the phrase "he's entitles to go down", but, If its elsewhere on the pitch there could be any number of reasons to stay on your feet, may a break is on, or its miles from goal so a free kick is no help. But when in the box, the biggest advanatge unless able to shoot is take the opportunity of a pen.
		
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Then as you've put the only thing that'll change this scurge is players themselves..


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 15, 2017)

Long 20 minutes  now. To be fair Robles has not had to make a save in the 2nd half but all this pressure is not good for the blood pressure. Really liking Davies. Somehow more satisfying when they come through the ranks.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Then as you've put the only thing that'll change this scurge is players themselves..
		
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Yeah,but my point was that it isn't necessarily cheating, otherwise the same could be labeled at defenders/keepers, saying they put in this types of fouls knowing that a penalty isn't always given.


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## Fish (Jan 15, 2017)

Not sure what Pep has done but he's definitely broken city, they have no desire, no sharpness, totally lacklustre, just look like there clocking in and going through the motions! Not that Liverpool or Manure will be moaning as its a good result for both of them.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 15, 2017)

Fish said:



			Not sure what Pep has done but he's definitely broken city, they have no desire, no sharpness, totally lacklustre, just look like there clocking in and going through the motions! Not that Liverpool or Manure will be moaning as its a good result for both of them.
		
Click to expand...

His post match interview should be good &#128522; 
He'd have been better off going to PSG or Celtic where he'd have been garunteed another title.


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## The Evertonian (Jan 15, 2017)

Hahaha light the cigars...job done


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 15, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Long 20 minutes  now. To be fair Robles has not had to make a save in the 2nd half but all this pressure is not good for the blood pressure. Really liking Davies. Somehow more satisfying when they come through the ranks.
		
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He's just capped off a very good performance,the lad will be buzzing.


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## garyinderry (Jan 15, 2017)

Super goal from the lad.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 15, 2017)

Please refer to my earlier post. Tom Davies, take a bow.

We can enjoy the rest of the match now.

Tashy, what has happened to your lot?


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## sawtooth (Jan 15, 2017)

Davies showing Sterling how it's done. Superb


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 15, 2017)

Niall Quin is shocking&#128547;


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## Fish (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverpool  have withdrawn Joel Matip from the squad to face Man Utd over questions about his international clearance fearing punishment from FIFA if they play him as he didn't want to go to the African Nations.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			If you take the time to read all posts I've already stated every team would call for it and there was contact, it still doesn't make it right though, has the keeper clipped his leg or is the forward trailing a leg looking for contact?
		
Click to expand...


IMO it was clearly the former, Stirling had no need to dive. He had beaten the keeper and from that angle Baines wasn't getting there.

Still no matter the game is now deservedly won.

BTW there is no one who hates more than me that expression "He was entitled to go down." Stay on your bloody feet if you can as you won't score sat on your backside.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 15, 2017)

For all that he talks rubbish most of the time I like Micky Quinn's take on diving in the box. He states he never did it as he wasn't often the penalty taker. "Why would I dive and give someone else the chance to score". He wanted to score more than anything. I like that view.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Yeah,but my point was that it isn't necessarily cheating, otherwise the same could be labeled at defenders/keepers, saying they put in this types of fouls knowing that a penalty isn't always given.
		
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Defenders should be rightly punished for a foul, they're scared to make a tackle in the box at times knowing that any contact,  the forwards look to make the most of.


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## Fish (Jan 15, 2017)

Now that's a fairy tale ending &#128079;&#128079;&#128079;

Thank god we didn't buy Stones &#128514;&#128514;


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## garyinderry (Jan 15, 2017)

Delighted for the youngster.   took it well.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

What a fantastic result, wouldn't of called that at halftime :whoo:


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## garyinderry (Jan 15, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			IMO it was clearly the former, Stirling had no need to dive. He had beaten the keeper and from that angle Baines wasn't getting there.

Still no matter the game is now deservedly won.

BTW there is no one who hates more than me that expression "He was entitled to go down." Stay on your bloody feet if you can as you won't score sat on your backside.
		
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He was clearly caught enough to bring him down.  The replay shows as much.   even sterling would be able to kick the floor and duff it into the net from the position he was in had he not be clipped.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Â£5.00 Double on Everton & Utd, 
currently offering Â£22.49 on cash out, projected returns Â£50.60.
Decisions, Decisions :rofl:


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 15, 2017)

Great performance by Everton and great to see to debutants get in on the goals.

Pep's press conference could be good.
I can see some so called big signings going in the for sale section soon.

Just hope Utd stuff Liverpool now and make it a perfect weekend.


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## JCW (Jan 15, 2017)

Everton 4 Man City 0 ,  Pep found wanting , been manager at micky mouse German and spain , In German he had the best players and club plus money to spend , easy , same in spain , Barcelona had Messi and the best midfield ever in a 2 club league , well maybe 3 , he could only win it was not hard if you had the best players in a league that had only a few tough games , over here they are all hard , don`t show up against the bottom teams and you get done ................looking forward to his press conference , the one after the Burnley game show a spoilt brat , see what this brings if he turns up ...................EYG


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## pokerjoke (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Â£5.00 Double on Everton & Utd, 
currently offering Â£22.49 on cash out, projected returns Â£50.60.
Decisions, Decisions :rofl:
		
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Haha just look at the pleasure of picking up your winnings will give you.


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## JCW (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverpool v Man U next , Liverpool to put jose to sleep , well hope so .......................EYG


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## JCW (Jan 15, 2017)

Fish said:



			Now that's a fairy tale ending &#128079;&#128079;&#128079;

Thank god we didn't buy Stones &#128514;&#128514;
		
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Your lot are going to be Chinese takeaways soon , Tottenham are the Team at the moment , hate to say it as a gunner but they are and most of the players are English too .....................EYG


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## Tashyboy (Jan 15, 2017)

bluewolf said:



			Could do with a few more as I've got money riding on 7 or more goals over the 2 games.....
		
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Would like to say am elated to see my team help you with your bet. I really would like to say it.




bloody Rammel.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

I'm sick of this Merseyside v Manchester crap, don't think anyone outside of Sky actually believes any of the 4 clubs fans care.


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## Jensen (Jan 15, 2017)

Must admit, I haven't seen a massive amount of John Stones, but what I've seen doesn't inspire me. He reminds me of David Luiz, great technically but CANT defend


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 15, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Must admit, I haven't seen a massive amount of John Stones, but what I've seen doesn't inspire me. He reminds me of David Luiz, great technically but CANT defend
		
Click to expand...

You mean the old David Luiz? &#128556;


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## pokerjoke (Jan 15, 2017)

JCW said:



			Your lot are going to be Chinese takeaways soon , Tottenham are the Team at the moment , hate to say it as a gunner but they are and most of the players are English too .....................EYG
		
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Wow if my Arsenal mates saw this they would disown you.

Obviously Spurs are not the team of the moment Chelsea are.
Nice to have you back though always a laugh


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 15, 2017)

Take your winnings Paul. Manure on the up, Liverpool just dipping slightly. Home win for me.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 15, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Take your winnings Paul. Manure on the up, Liverpool just dipping slightly. Home win for me.
		
Click to expand...

Don't you mean let it ride?


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## Fish (Jan 15, 2017)

Well looking at the line up, I think once Liverpool go down 2-nil Klipperty will have realised he should have started his better players first, this could be a real grubbing as that team of Liverpool's looks very weak by comparison imo .


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 15, 2017)

I'm an idiot. I read it the other way. Yes, leave it on. Then again I'm rubbish at gambling. Do it responsibly :thup:


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 15, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do it responsibly :thup:
		
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:rofl:
Wise words


----------



## Tiger man (Jan 15, 2017)

Get in Everton! Koeman got his tactics and subs spot on, has Tippy tappy Pep well sussed, master v apprentice.


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## Fish (Jan 15, 2017)

I'd get Pogba off, he's giving the ball away and that's a stupid pen to give away.  As for Phil Jones, he's a big worry in any defensive line up.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 15, 2017)

Isn't handball meant to be intentional now?
domt get me wrong. I'd still want it for my team. But jumping naturally as he did and mis timing it isn't intentional. Is it?


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## sawtooth (Jan 15, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Isn't handball meant to be intentional now?
domt get me wrong. I'd still want it for my team. But jumping naturally as he did and mis timing it isn't intentional. Is it?
		
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Maybe that's how he wanted it to look? Disguised handball ,made it look like he was going up for a header. 

He didn't seem to complain that much.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 15, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Isn't handball meant to be intentional now?
domt get me wrong. I'd still want it for my team. But jumping naturally as he did and mis timing it isn't intentional. Is it?
		
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You for real?? 
He was trying to Dab mid air.


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## sawtooth (Jan 15, 2017)

Great tackle from Lovren but gets a yellow card!?


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## JCW (Jan 15, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Wow if my Arsenal mates saw this they would disown you.

Obviously Spurs are not the team of the moment Chelsea are.
Nice to have you back though always a laugh
		
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They playing the best football like or not , took WBA apart yesterday     , next few games will see if Chelsea will go on but they are in the best position and with no European football they will be hard to catch .........but if Costa goes to china then it will change things for sure , the Chinese got him on the menu already , no .10 Brazilian chicken cooked spainish style with rice .................EYG


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## Fish (Jan 15, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Maybe that's how he wanted it to look? Disguised handball ,made it look like he was going up for a header. 

He didn't seem to complain that much.
		
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You think he's that clever, I don't, he's lost his head and I can see him walking if Clattenburg sees his antics off the ball.


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## sawtooth (Jan 15, 2017)

Pogba very lucky boy.


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## JCW (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverpool donkey keeper doing well , 2 saves now ....................EYG


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## Papas1982 (Jan 15, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			You for real?? 
He was trying to Dab mid air.
		
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His arm didnt imo move to the ball which would show intent. Not saying i wouldnt want the pen, just not sure what counts as intent. Wasnt as if all of the players appealled.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 15, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Maybe that's how he wanted it to look? Disguised handball ,made it look like he was going up for a header. 

He didn't seem to complain that much.
		
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Nope, he's arm didnt make a second ovement, i doubt anyone when a ball is crossed in thinks ".I'll try and get my hand subtly in the way instead of my head".

That said he is having a mare!


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## JCW (Jan 15, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Blah blah blah yeah got a chance to turn something into a pathetic little dig at Arsenal, you are predictable and pathetic.
		
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Like


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## Papas1982 (Jan 15, 2017)

Fish said:



			You think he's that clever, I don't, he's lost his head and I can see him walking if Clattenburg sees his antics off the ball.
		
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Is he on the line?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Cash out down to Â£9.63 :rofl: typical Mancs


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## Fish (Jan 15, 2017)

I should have carried on watching 633 Squadron &#128540;


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## pokerjoke (Jan 15, 2017)

Seriously Liverpool are pants without the penalty they have produced nothing and they are there for the taking,wether we can or not is another thing.

Once again pressing high and all over the park just hope they tire.

Phil Jones is just no where near good enough and Pogba today is headless,time for Jose to earn his wages.

Mignolet superb so far.


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## JCW (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sanchez wants to win - and win the big trophies , he is one player that would take from Arsenal , his work ethic is amazing , the match against Bournemouth was prob a penny dropping for him that some in the team just don't seem to care about the team - 3 minutes left , Sanchez is desperate to get the game going again to get a winner - what's Giroud doing - some stupid dance celebrating. 

He knows he won't win a big trophy at Arsenal and it's frustrating for him - expect him to be at Madrid or City next year
		
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One place he won`t be is Liverpool , as for city , no way , they are an team that's getting old , Juv or PSG maybe , I think he will stay as he has already played in spain , Chinese league maybe but he wants to win and play all the time so that is a long shot , how Arsenal go from now onwards will say where he goes plus who we bring in this summer ............................EYG


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## JCW (Jan 15, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Seriously Liverpool are pants without the penalty they have produced nothing and they are there for the taking,wether we can or not is another thing.

Once again pressing high and all over the park just hope they tire.

Phil Jones is just no where near good enough and Pogba today is headless,time for Jose to earn his wages.

Mignolet superb so far.
		
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Well the answer is coming on now , Rooney ........................EYG


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## HawkeyeMS (Jan 15, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Great tackle from Lovren but gets a yellow card!?
		
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Glad I'm not the only one who thought that. There is no way that was a foul, let alone a booking. The commentators described it as "a lunge" which is just ridiculous. Football has gone soft.


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## garyinderry (Jan 15, 2017)

Convinced that dip around the pitch at old Trafford contributes massively to the poor quality of corners.  Really impedes the corner takers run.  They can't get set properly and inevitably make poor contact or don't flight it properly.


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## Fish (Jan 15, 2017)

Utd need to take those chances.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 15, 2017)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Glad I'm not the only one who thought that. There is no way that was a foul, let alone a booking. The commentators described it as "a lunge" which is just ridiculous. Football has gone soft.
		
Click to expand...

Lovren always looked in control of the challenge to me. 
Harsh.


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## Slime (Jan 15, 2017)

I have a horrible feeling that Liverpool are going to snatch one on the break.
I'm really not feeling good about today's game.


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## Fish (Jan 15, 2017)

Pogba is absolutely kite, he must be devaluing at an astonishing rate!

He couldn't win a 1 ticket raffle &#128514;


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## Slime (Jan 15, 2017)

Ibraaaaaaaaaaaaa.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Game on!


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## Slime (Jan 15, 2017)

Beware the counter attack !!


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## Fish (Jan 15, 2017)

It was coming, wouldn't surprise if they push for the win, gotta watch for the counter though.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 15, 2017)

Watching Utd the last 10 minutes is like watching Wimbledon of old. It's worked but it's not clever or pretty. Sheer brute force.


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## Jensen (Jan 15, 2017)

Man U goal came from a foul throw, shouldn't have stood.
Ball was thrown from top of head in a downward motion, rather than behind the head.
However this seems to happen a lot lately, seems to be the latest issue


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 15, 2017)

Did Herrera briefly pretend to hold his face then? Shabby.


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## garyinderry (Jan 15, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Did Herrera briefly pretend to hold his face then? Shabby.
		
Click to expand...

Yes and its typical of him.  Hateful wee person. 


Draw will do nicely.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 15, 2017)

Not the worst point  - good to see the Old Trafford Officials working well for the home side as usual - Herrera going to hold his face , embarrassment


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## Slime (Jan 15, 2017)

A good opportunity missed, I thought United edged it ................. but hey ho.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

:whoo: :whoo: Bottle went, cashed out at Â£24.73: :rofl:
Good decision!


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## anotherdouble (Jan 15, 2017)

Great result. Future is blue


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## Jensen (Jan 15, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Great result. Future is blue
		
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But City got beat &#128513;


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## anotherdouble (Jan 15, 2017)

Jensen said:



			But City got beat &#128513;
		
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211 miles too far north


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 15, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Liverpool run out of steam again but United didn't do enough to deserve all 3 points.

Draw was a fair result and probably the best outcome for Spurs and Arsenal.
		
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Run out of steam ? I know you will keep peddling that nonsense because it's something you said a couple months back but which team was it in the last 5 mins going for the winner ? It wasn't Utd.


----------



## sawtooth (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Run out of steam ? I know you will keep peddling that nonsense because it's something you said a couple months back but which team was it in the last 5 mins going for the winner ? It wasn't Utd.
		
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It was from where I was standing. Liverpool hanging on a bit IMO.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Run out of steam ? I know you will keep peddling that nonsense because it's something you said a couple months back but which team was it in the last 5 mins going for the winner ? It wasn't Utd.
		
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Hope you soon get your TV repaired.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 15, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			It was from where I was standing. Liverpool hanging on a bit IMO.
		
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It was at times back to the wall but that was due to pressure from them putting a lot of balls into the big men nothing to do with "running out of steam" nonsense


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not the worst point  - good to see the Old Trafford Officials working well for the home side as usual - Herrera going to hold his face , embarrassment
		
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Surely Firmino was lucky not be sent off, if you watch he had 2 goes at Herrera, no he didn't touch his face but was still violent conduct.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jan 15, 2017)

I thought Liverpool didnt quite have that cutting edge when presented with opportunities and Utd didn't have the collective drive or control. Probably a fair result in the end.


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 15, 2017)

What is your gripe with the officials Phil?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 15, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			What is your gripe with the officials Phil?
		
Click to expand...

Rooney getting away with a clear late tackle studs on Milner , for some reason even though the ref saw it he failed to give the card the tackle clearly deserved , Lovren getting a yellow for clear clean tackle , Pogba getting away with grabbing Henderson around the neck then throwing him to the ground , Valencia offside for the cross for their goal 

I'm still amazed he managed to spot the Pogba handball.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Surely Firmino was lucky not be sent off, if you watch he had 2 goes at Herrera, no he didn't touch his face but was still violent conduct.
		
Click to expand...

Obvious simulation and acting, and an unpunished horror tackle from Rooney. Honours even I would suggest.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jan 15, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Lovren always looked in control of the challenge to me. 
Harsh.
		
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Tackling used to be a skill, and we'll timed tackled like that used to be applauded, now you get booked for it.


----------



## sawtooth (Jan 15, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Nope, he's arm didnt make a second ovement, i doubt anyone when a ball is crossed in thinks ".I'll try and get my hand subtly in the way instead of my head".

That said he is having a mare!
		
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I just watched it again, are you saying Pogba did not handle deliberately?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Obvious simulation and acting, and an unpunished horror tackle from Rooney. Honours even I would suggest.
		
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Ha Ha, simulation! He raised his hands and pushed him over, what's Rooney's offence got to do with it?


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Rooney getting away with a clear late tackle studs on Milner , for some reason even though the ref saw it he failed to give the card the tackle clearly deserved , Lovren getting a yellow for clear clean tackle , Pogba getting away with grabbing Henderson around the neck then throwing him to the ground , Valencia offside for the cross for their goal 

I'm still amazed he managed to spot the Pogba handball.
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough.  The pogba throwing incident could certainly have handed you the 3 points.   off the ball so can and did get away with it. 

The offside for the goal was unlucky.  

The others are minor gripes.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 15, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I just watched it again, are you saying Pogba did not handle deliberately?
		
Click to expand...

Ive on,y seen it once, dodgy feed and workingmean haven't seen replays. 

When I first saw it, it appears he was jumping at it hit him. After motd maybe that'll change. From people's comments on here, I'm guessing I need a replay.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Very fair interview from Klippety there, hate to admit he's growing on me as a person


----------



## chrisd (Jan 15, 2017)

Whether deliberate or not it was a cert penalty


----------



## Slime (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Run out of steam ? I know you will keep peddling that nonsense because it's something you said a couple months back but *which team was it in the last 5 mins going for the winner ? It wasn't Utd.*

Click to expand...

Just out of interest Phil, which game were you watching?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 15, 2017)

Slime said:



			Just out of interest Phil, which game were you watching?
		
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Was it Winladjum who had a shot saved in the last minute of extra time , plus a number of counter attacks coming from Liverpool after United got the equaliser - Liverpool will better finishing could have easily snatched it at the end. Believe Henry just said the same in the studio - Utd were still hoofing balls up though


----------



## sawtooth (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Was it Winladjum who had a shot saved in the last minute of extra time , plus a number of counter attacks coming from Liverpool after United got the equaliser - Liverpool will better finishing could have easily snatched it at the end. Believe Henry just said the same in the studio - Utd were still hoofing balls up though
		
Click to expand...

Wijnaldum didn't have much left in the tank if the shot was anything to go by.  I've seen firmer back passes than that.


----------



## Slime (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Was it Winladjum who had a shot saved in the last minute of extra time , plus a number of counter attacks coming from Liverpool after United got the equaliser - Liverpool will better finishing could have easily snatched it at the end. Believe Henry just said the same in the studio - *Utd were still hoofing balls up though*

Click to expand...

But obviously not looking for a winner ?


----------



## Qwerty (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			but which team was it in the last 5 mins going for the winner ? It wasn't Utd.
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



			plus a number of counter attacks coming from Liverpool after United got the equaliser -
		
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Counter Attack - So Liverpool were countering an Attack ??


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Was it Winladjum who had a shot saved in the last minute of extra time , plus a number of counter attacks coming from Liverpool after United got the equaliser - Liverpool will better finishing could have easily snatched it at the end. Believe Henry just said the same in the studio - Utd were still hoofing balls up though
		
Click to expand...

Obviously with better finishing either side could have snatched it but neither side deserved to.

As for only one team trying to win it at the end you must , in the vernacular, "be having a laugh".


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 15, 2017)

Qwerty said:



			Counter Attack - So Liverpool were countering an Attack ??
		
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Ok I'll rephrase what I was meaning which was in response to Sawtooth constant "run out of steam" comment 

Liverpool clearly had steam left to still be looking dangerous right up until the final whistle and looking like the team that could sneak the winner with a number of quick breaks in the final 5 mins - whilst Utd where just lumping the ball forward


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 15, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Fair enough.  The pogba throwing incident could certainly have handed you the 3 points.   off the ball so can and did get away with it. 

The offside for the goal was unlucky.  

The others are minor gripes.
		
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The tackle from Rooney was far from minor - it was a shocking tackle - could have been a red card if you look at what he booked Lovren for


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The tackle from Rooney was far from minor - it was a shocking tackle - could have been a red card if you look at what he booked Lovren for
		
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Never a red.  You can't upgrade that to red because lovern got a silly yellow.  Come on chap.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 15, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Never a red.  You can't upgrade that to red because lovern got a silly yellow.  Come on chap.
		
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It's late , it's studs onto the leg - plenty have been shown red for the same sort of tackle. Ref got to at least show consistency- or did the Liverpool players need to surround the ref like the Mancs did ?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Has anyone checked on Tashyboy? Heard nowt since the first half of the Everton v City match :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's late , it's studs onto the leg - plenty have been shown red for the same sort of tackle. Ref got to at least show consistency- or did the Liverpool players need to surround the ref like the Mancs did ?
		
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Did you not see your players surround the Ref when Firmino got lucky?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 15, 2017)

City were woeful again today and I think if United keep kicking on, and Everton play like today, then Pep will be lucky to get a CL spot. As for the other game, Pogba, how much? Rubbish and I've been less than impressed all season. I thought both sides created chances, and it got a tad feisty, but I don't think some of these tackles were necessarily red cards. When did going in hard go out of fashion. Not a great result for Liverpool and now a three horse race for second in my eyes.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 15, 2017)

chrisd said:



			Whether deliberate or not it was a cert penalty
		
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Surely that's the deciding factor in whether it's a penalty or not. If it wasn't deliberate then it shouldn't have been a penalty. I haven't seen it so have no idea if it was deliberate or not but the laws of the game say.......

 "A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences:

handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within their penalty area)
HANDLING THE BALL
Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm.
The following must be considered:
the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)
the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)
the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement"


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## sawtooth (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Very fair interview from Klippety there, hate to admit he's growing on me as a person 

Click to expand...

I've always like Klopp (he's not the problem lol)

I've just watched the brilliant clip on Sky of Mourinho and Klopp exchanging words on 90 mins.

It looked to me that Klopp was having a pop at Mourinho for his antics when Firmino pushed Herrera over. Klopp prancing up and down mimicking Mourinho was hilarious.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 15, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I've always like Klopp (he's not the problem lol)

I've just watched the brilliant clip on Sky of Mourinho and Klopp exchanging words on 90 mins.

It looked to me that Klopp was having a pop at Mourinho for his antics when Firmino pushed Herrera over. Klopp prancing up and down mimicking Mourinho was hilarious.
		
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I like Klopp too. He's very honest, good bad or indifferent


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 15, 2017)

With all this tooing and froing on the last few pages, notice no one has criticised the ref in the early match. Well done that man. 

Forget your anger folks, relax and bask in a royal blue glow &#128513;. (I think we are really cementing 7th place, ha ha)


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## Kellfire (Jan 15, 2017)

As a United fan here's my take on the game...

Both teams were awful. Yes Pogba was the worst but did ANYONE look worthy of the fixture? Nope, not in my opinion. Yes our goal was offside. Not gonna feel bad. That's football. The penalty was 50/50. By the rules he didn't make any attempt to handle it but it was clumsy as hell. 

Neither team deserved anything from that pish. Onwards and hopefully upwards!


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## Tarkus1212 (Jan 15, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



*City were woeful again today *and I think if United keep kicking on, and Everton play like today, then Pep will be lucky to get a CL spot. As for the other game, Pogba, how much? Rubbish and I've been less than impressed all season. I thought both sides created chances, and it got a tad feisty, but I don't think some of these tackles were necessarily red cards. When did going in hard go out of fashion. Not a great result for Liverpool and now a three horse race for second in my eyes.
		
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What I find really surprising about City is how little fight their appears to be in them. When was the last time they came back from two goals down? They don't appear to have any leadership on or off the pitch.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I've always like Klopp (he's not the problem lol)

I've just watched the brilliant clip on Sky of Mourinho and Klopp exchanging words on 90 mins.

It looked to me that Klopp was having a pop at Mourinho for his antics when Firmino pushed Herrera over. Klopp prancing up and down mimicking Mourinho was hilarious.
		
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People are mentioning the penalty, defo penalty, arm was in a bad position, great decision.
Totally understand Firmino losing his head, good break on and rightly pissed off, but he clearly went for Herrera, it wasn't 2 players pushing and shoving, so I'm confused why it's not a red, Herrera should count himself lucky it was Firmino trying to slap and not someone giving him a right hook, I think that's what Jose was asking and Klippetty mimicking.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Tarkus1212 said:



			What I find really surprising about City is how little fight their appears to be in them. When was the last time they came back from two goals down? They don't appear to have any leadership on or off the pitch.
		
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Tbf, until our 2nd I thought they were the much better team, but in certain games could do with a proper No 9, sometimes they have 3 or 4 going forward and overplay.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			People are mentioning the penalty, defo penalty, arm was in a bad position, great decision.
Totally understand Firmino losing his head, good break on and rightly pissed off, but he clearly went for Herrera, it wasn't 2 players pushing and shoving, so I'm confused why it's not a red, Herrera should count himself lucky it was Firmino trying to slap and not someone giving him a right hook, I think that's what Jose was asking and Klippetty mimicking.
		
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He pushed him away and was rightly yellow carded for it - he didn't try and slap and didn't try and punch him 

https://mobile.twitter.com/LFCTransferRoom/status/820706247099944969/video/1


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## Tarkus1212 (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Tbf, until our 2nd I thought they were the much better team, but in certain games could do with a proper No 9, sometimes they have 3 or 4 going forward and overplay.
		
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That's what I mean, when they're on level terms or ahead they can look fantastic. But if they go behind they seem to lack self-belief.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He pushed him away and was rightly yellow carded for it - he didn't try and slap and didn't try and punch him 

https://mobile.twitter.com/LFCTransferRoom/status/820706247099944969/video/1

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What's the first swipe he miss's with, the second is the push,


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			What's the first swipe he miss's with, the second is the push,
		
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The first swipe is he trying to get him to release his shirt by trying to knock away his hand from his shirt and the second he had pushed him - it's a yellow card despite Herrera trying to make out contact was made with the face .


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The first swipe is he trying to get him to release his shirt by trying to knock away his hand from his shirt and the second he had pushed him - it's a yellow card despite Herrera trying to make out contact was made with the face .
		
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Agree Herrera is out of order grabbing his face, but surely Firmino still went at him, what makes it only a yellow?


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## sawtooth (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			People are mentioning the penalty, defo penalty, arm was in a bad position, great decision.
Totally understand Firmino losing his head, good break on and rightly pissed off, but he clearly went for Herrera, it wasn't 2 players pushing and shoving, so I'm confused why it's not a red, Herrera should count himself lucky it was Firmino trying to slap and not someone giving him a right hook, I think that's what Jose was asking and Klippetty mimicking.
		
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Maybe, need to see again on MOTD2 if they bring it up. I didn't see Mourinho but I can just imagine him going mental when Herrera hit the deck, it looked like Klopp was taking the mick.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 15, 2017)

Tarkus1212 said:



			What I find really surprising about City is how little fight their appears to be in them. When was the last time they came back from two goals down? They don't appear to have any leadership on or off the pitch.
		
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There doesn't appear to be any spark anywhere, even before they concede. They don't seem to want to start well and dictate games and almost wait for the opposition to give them a simple chance to score. If teams press, tackle and work hard, they don't seem to want to know. Do they need more players this month? Who is there and will they actually be any different to what they have


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 15, 2017)

It was handbags,that's all it was. 
Herrera took one for the team & was rightly shown a yellow. 
Firmino threw his arms about like a little girl & was also given a yellow.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 15, 2017)

So who's going to win the fight for 2nd? &#128516;


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## Stuart_C (Jan 15, 2017)

Disappointed with the result, it's hard to accept wrong decisions when the officials don't keep up with play  but we still should've done better. 

The performance was a massive improvement from Wednesday night. 

I like Herrera, I'd have him I'm my side no danger but WTF was he doing holding his face on the floor?? Embarrassing.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Agree Herrera is out of order grabbing his face, but surely Firmino still went at him, what makes it only a yellow?
		
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Do you really think he deserves to be sent off?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Has anyone checked on Tashyboy? Heard nowt since the first half of the Everton v City match :rofl: :rofl:
		
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Won a game have yers??


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Do you really think he deserves to be sent off?
		
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We were discussing Referee's and consistencey, it's not about what I think (even though I don't and stated I totally get his frustration) I'm asking if by the rules he should've been.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Won a game have yers??

Click to expand...

Won a few since you's last did :ears:


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## Stuart_C (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Won a few since you's last did :ears:
		
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Even a stuck clock is right twice a day :ears:


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## Stuart_C (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			We were discussing Referee's and consistencey, it's not about what I think (even though I don't and stated I totally get his frustration) I'm asking if by the rules he should've been.
		
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Thank god referees are inconsistent :rofl:

Common sense is what made it only a yellow. Imagine how better the game would be if common sense was used by all referees?


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Agree Herrera is out of order grabbing his face, but surely Firmino still went at him, what makes it only a yellow?
		
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Do you think Lukaku should also have walked, then?

P poor referee. 

In a microcosm of 1 minute:-

Lallana  shoved by Rojo as the corner comes in, Pogba wrestles (assaults Henderson) and shoves him to the ground by the neck, ball goes out to Herrera (rightly concede a free kick), then as the free kick is taken Pogba shoves 2 players out of the way to allow Zlatan's free kick to go through the wall. 4 clear as day fouls, only one given (United's one).

Herrera kicks the ball away after a free kick is given/ Wijnaldum booked for keeping hold of the ball.

Rooney/Lovren's tackle. One not a foul and booked, one a deffo yellow for Rooney.

That ref was pants. I think he only give the pen cos it hit both hands.

Some saying it wasnt a pen. Wow. Another offiside goal,again (as predicted).

Yes, I'll see it from our perspective, but think that most neutrals wouldnt argue with all the above about the decisions.

Overall I dont think anyone can lay claim to deserving all 3 points. Mignolet made some very good saves, we had equally as good chances in the 2nd half, but didnt force  De Gea into having to make them.

I thought is was churlish by Klopp to say that they "only" scored by lumping it. Its part of the game, and a lumped goal counts just as much as a 15 pass move.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Do you think Lukaku should also have walked, then?

P poor referee. 

In a microcosm of 1 minute:-

Lallana  shoved by Rojo as the corner comes in, Pogba wrestles (assaults Henderson) and shoves him to the ground by the neck, ball goes out to Herrera (rightly concede a free kick), then as the free kick is taken Pogba shoves 2 players out of the way to allow Zlatan's free kick to go through the wall. 4 clear as day fouls, only one given (United's one).

Herrera kicks the ball away after a free kick is given/ Wijnaldum booked for keeping hold of the ball.

Rooney/Lovren's tackle. One not a foul and booked, one a deffo yellow for Rooney.

That ref was pants. I think he only give the pen cos it hit both hands.

Some saying it wasnt a pen. Wow. Another offiside goal,again (as predicted).

Yes, I'll see it from our perspective, but think that most neutrals wouldnt argue with all the above about the decisions.

Overall I dont think anyone can lay claim to deserving all 3 points. Mignolet made some very good saves, we had equally as good chances in the 2nd half, but didnt force  De Gea into having to make them.

I thought is was churlish by Klopp to say that they "only" scored by lumping it. Its part of the game, and a lumped goal counts just as much as a 15 pass move.
		
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Lukaku didn't raise his hands, but what part of I don't think Firmino should've walked do you not get, so was the Firmino only a yellow another bad decision?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Lukaku didn't raise his hands, but what part of I don't think Firmino should've walked do you not get, so was the Firmino only a yellow another bad decision?
		
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I think you're harping on about a rule that doesn't exist.

" If you raise your hands, youâ€™re going to get sent offâ€ is a mythical rule.

Pushing and shoving isn't violent conduct.

Unless you can show me where exactly in the laws Of The game I'll  be happy to be corrected.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Lukaku didn't raise his hands, but what part of I don't think Firmino should've walked do you not get, so was the Firmino only a yellow another bad decision?
		
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pauldj42 said:



			Surely Firmino was lucky not be sent off, if you watch he had 2 goes at Herrera, no he didn't touch his face but was still violent conduct.
		
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Which is it ? You don't think he should have walked or as you said earlier he was lucky not to be sent off going on about violent conduct ?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I think you're harping on about a rule that doesn't exist.

" If you raise your hands, youâ€™re going to get sent offâ€ is a mythical rule.

Pushing and shoving isn't violent conduct.

Unless you can show me where exactly in the laws Of The game I'll  be happy to be corrected.
		
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I'm not "harping" on about anything, I'm replying to your's and Petes post to me!


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## USER1999 (Jan 15, 2017)

As a neutral in this, i enjoyed Klopps interview, and saw his comments about route one footy as a bit of tongue in cheek stirring, rather than as a put down. The game was messy. I would have Pogba cited for dangerous play, as in rugby. Grabbing a player around the neck is dangerous play. Other than that, it was entertaining rubbish. These games never live up to the Sky hype.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Which is it ? You don't think he should have walked or as you said earlier he was lucky not to be sent off going on about violent conduct ?
		
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You tell me, you were moaning about inconsistent officials,


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Lukaku didn't raise his hands, but what part of I don't think Firmino should've walked do you not get, so was the Firmino only a yellow another bad decision?
		
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Posts 6044 and 6052?

You seem to be asking questions of why Firmino shouldnt have seen red.

Whose writing your scripts, Jekyll or Hyde?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I'm not "harping" on about anything, I'm replying to your's and Petes post to me!
		
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Paul, we've had this discussion on numerous occasions mate, even discussing as far back as when Sterling  was with us  and he  done it to a city player after they'd tumbled off the pitch and there was handbags.

The rule doesn't exist.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Posts 6044 and 6052?

You seem to be asking questions of why Firmino shouldnt have seen red.

Whose writing your scripts, Jekyll or Hyde?
		
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They were questions in response to moaning about Ref's inconsistencey, I don't know what he was booked for?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Posts 6044 and 6052?

You seem to be asking questions of why Firmino shouldnt have seen red.

Whose writing your scripts, Jekyll or Hyde?
		
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And postS 6007 & 6038.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			And postS 6007 & 6038.
		
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Overwhelming evidence - take him down.

BTW I thought the Sterling one was a pen. I didnt think so for 2-3 replays until they showed it from behind, but Robles takes both legs, so it was a pen.Nevertheless, great performance by the blues, outside of that.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Overwhelming evidence - take him down.

BTW I thought the Sterling one was a pen. I didnt think so for 2-3 replays until they showed it from behind, but Robles takes both legs, so it was a pen.Nevertheless, great performance by the blues, outside of that.
		
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Think you should stop "harping" on :ears:


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Think you should stop "harping" on :ears:
		
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Let back in on appeal......

Go on then clarify your view on the Firmino one. Yellow (granted).


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 15, 2017)

How biased is Phil Neville to his old clubs and team mates?

I thought he was bad the other week at OT, but some of the rubbish about Stones, was excellently called out by Shearer.


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## NWJocko (Jan 15, 2017)

Only saw highlights on motd but looked some debut by Davies for Everton. Haven't heard of him (don't follow as closely anymore), he been one to watch out for a while?

That Liverpool kit is honking!!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Let back in on appeal......

Go on then clarify your view on the Firmino one. Yellow (granted).
		
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The force he used on Herrera might of been seen by some Refs as excessive and therefore Violent Conduct which is a Red, I thought he had took a previous swipe at Herrera, but Phil's link showed it was to break the grip Herrera had on his shirt (Refs don't get replays).
As some were moaning about the Ref, funnily enough social media is also full of Mancs saying he was favouring yous, I asked if in that situation Firmino may of been lucky to just get a yellow.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			The force he used on Herrera might of been seen by some Refs as excessive and therefore Violent Conduct which is a Red, I thought he had took a previous swipe at Herrera, but Phil's link showed it was to break the grip Herrera had on his shirt (Refs don't get replays).
As some were moaning about the Ref, funnily enough social media is also full of Mancs saying he was favouring yous, I asked if in that situation Firmino may of been lucky to just get a yellow.
		
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Instead of asking us, tell me your view.

For me not. If it had of been into his face, probably but a push on its own and to the chest is rarely a yellow card in handbags, unless someone tries to make more out of it than what it was (which Herrera did by grabbing his face).

Again, should Lukaku have been sent off then? For me no, but a booking was right.

How could the mancs say he was favouring us?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

NWJocko said:



			Only saw highlights on motd but looked some debut by Davies for Everton. Haven't heard of him (don't follow as closely anymore), he been one to watch out for a while?

That Liverpool kit is honking!!
		
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Local kid we've had since he was
10, made 9 appearances so far, played for England kids from U14 to U17, got a couple of young lads with potential, still only 18 so lots of time to keep developing.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			The force he used on Herrera might of been seen by some Refs as excessive and therefore Violent Conduct which is a Red, I thought he had took a previous swipe at Herrera, but Phil's link showed it was to break the grip Herrera had on his shirt (Refs don't get replays).
As some were moaning about the Ref, funnily enough social media is also full of Mancs saying he was favouring yous, I asked if in that situation Firmino may of been lucky to just get a yellow.
		
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Yellow at most. 

Any ref that gives that as violent conduct against any pro footballer needs to be jibbed off.

Common sense is needed where refs are concerned.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Instead of asking us, tell me your view.

For me not. If it had of been into his face, probably but a push on its own and to the chest is rarely a yellow card in handbags, unless someone tries to make more out of it than what it was (which Herrera did by grabbing his face).

Again, should Lukaku have been sent off then? For me no, but a booking was right.

How could the mancs say he was favouring us?
		
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Herrera was a disgrace and his play acting could've easily been a red for Firmino, a yellow was right, also answered the Lukaku one last time, he didn't raise his arms and a yellow was fair enough.


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## NWJocko (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Local kid we've had since he was
10, made 9 appearances so far, played for England kids from U14 to U17, got a couple of young lads with potential, still only 18 so lots of time to keep developing.
		
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Cheers, promising start, very calm on the ball from what you get to see in the highlights.

No doubt the papers will have him in the England team tomorrow morning then hammer him if he doesn't score a goal like that every week now!!


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 15, 2017)

Are Man U fans having that guff that Mourinho just spoke.

We had our chances at Anfield.........

Liverpool just come to defend......

Absolute rot.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 15, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Are Man U fans having that guff that Mourinho just spoke.

We had our chances at Anfield.........

Liverpool just come to defend......

Absolute rot.
		
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It's the ones who believe him and will spout in work tomorrow as gospel who I feel sorry for. 

He's just a European  Tony Pulis.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			It's the ones who believe him and will spout in work tomorrow as gospel who I feel sorry for. 

He's just a European  Tony Pulis.
		
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Neville just said that Jose said that they have a small team!!!!

Ibrahimavic, Fellaini, Jones, Pogba, Carrick, Rojo, Darmian, De Gea Martial must all be 6 ft 1 or above all on their own.

The man is that paranoid he's trying to re-write history and facts.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			We were discussing Referee's and consistencey, it's not about what I think (even though I don't and stated I totally get his frustration) I'm asking if by the rules he should've been.
		
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what referees see is a mystery to me.
Lannzini on Saturday ran into the crowd after scoring and was yellow carded as players are who do this.
Davies did exactly the same after scoring today he had already been yellow carded so by the law of the game he should have seen red.
I can't believe the ref did not see it so inconsistent is right 
you don't need a replay to see this .
I think refs should do a press conference after the game after all Pep has to.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 16, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			what referees see is a mystery to me.
Lannzini on Saturday ran into the crowd after scoring and was yellow carded as players are who do this.
Davies did exactly the same after scoring today he had already been yellow carded so by the law of the game he should have seen red.
I can't believe the ref did not see it so inconsistent is right 
you don't need a replay to see this .
I think refs should do a press conference after the game after all Pep has to.
		
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And we get told we're bitter :rofl:
See Law 18


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			And we get told we're bitter :rofl:
See Law 18
		
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whos we I merely pointed out an inconsistency in referees.
That is what post was about.

I personally think it's a diabolical decision to book a player for celebrating with the fans.


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## Fish (Jan 16, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			what referees see is a mystery to me.
Lannzini on Saturday ran into the crowd after scoring and was yellow carded as players are who do this.
Davies did exactly the same after scoring today he had already been yellow carded so by the law of the game he should have seen red.
I can't believe the ref did not see it so inconsistent is right 
you don't need a replay to see this .
I think refs should do a press conference after the game after all Pep has to.
		
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I noticed this immediately and thought he'd get carded, especially as we've seen many players get a yellow for going into the crowd even very recently.  The ref didn't give the yellow possibly knowing it would send him off and possibly knowing his story as a local lad and it being a debut goal, and so here lies the inconsistency, in other words, if he hadn't been already booked and there wasn't a story behind the goal & celebration, would he have received a yellow? I think he would have!

So I think when it suits us we applaud the ref for making a judgement call and interpreting the rule in association with the circumstances at the time, and when it doesn't suit us we want the ref to act on a rule clinically and without any consideration!  

Can we really expect consistency, I don't think so unless you really want to sanitise the game more than it is already!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			I noticed this immediately and thought he'd get carded, especially as we've seen many players get a yellow for going into the crowd even very recently.  The ref didn't give the yellow possibly knowing it would send him off and possibly knowing his story as a local lad and it being a debut goal, and so here lies the inconsistency, in other words, if he hadn't been already booked and there wasn't a story behind the goal & celebration, would he have received a yellow? I think he would have!

So I think when it suits us we applaud the ref for making a judgement call and interpreting the rule in association with the circumstances at the time, and when it doesn't suit us we want the ref to act on a rule clinically and without any consideration!  

Can we really expect consistency, I don't think so unless you really want to sanitise the game more than it is already!
		
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We need consistency- that is the one thing the refs need to show then at the very least the players and teams and fans can know where they stand 

You can't have refs not giving cards based on a "players story" or if he is a young local lad - if Davies jumped into the crowd to celebrate then he should have been booked , it happens to all the other players so it should have happened to him - regardless of if he had a card already, he should be treated the same as the 18 year professional. 

The ref needs to treat them all the same - as soon as he starts to make judgement calls based on the player it self then more trouble will occur for the officials. 

The players know you can't jump into the crowd and celebrate like that and even though it's a ridiculous rule - it's still a yellow card offence


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			I noticed this immediately and thought he'd get carded, especially as we've seen many players get a yellow for going into the crowd even very recently.  The ref didn't give the yellow possibly knowing it would send him off and possibly knowing his story as a local lad and it being a debut goal, and so here lies the inconsistency, in other words, if he hadn't been already booked and there wasn't a story behind the goal & celebration, would he have received a yellow? I think he would have!

So I think when it suits us we applaud the ref for making a judgement call and interpreting the rule in association with the circumstances at the time, and when it doesn't suit us we want the ref to act on a rule clinically and without any consideration!  

Can we really expect consistency, I don't think so unless you really want to sanitise the game more than it is already!
		
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Exactly mate, he was lucky he didn't get a 2nd yellow.
Inconsistencey is normally highlighted by opposition fans


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## sawtooth (Jan 16, 2017)

I want let refs know that it is OK to have a hard , legal  50/50 tackle and that they don't have to feel obliged to stop play and hand a card out each and every time. Its so bloody annoying.

Secondly, if the ref thinks that he saw something and if he has any sort of doubt whatsoever, to pause and go speak to the linesmen and other officials before making a decision. Refs seem to act too hastily for my liking. Better to take those extra few seconds , gauge reaction of players, listen to what everyone is saying and go from there.


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## Fish (Jan 16, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I want let refs know that it is OK to have a hard , legal  50/50 tackle and that they don't have to feel obliged to stop play and hand a card out each and every time. Its so bloody annoying.

Secondly, if the ref thinks that he saw something and if he has any sort of doubt whatsoever, to pause and go speak to the linesmen and other officials before making a decision. Refs seem to act too hastily for my liking. Better to take those extra few seconds , *gauge reaction of players, listen to what everyone is saying* and go from there.
		
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That ain't gonna work with all the play acting that goes on and your then inviting players to surround you!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 16, 2017)

Gauge the reaction of players, ha ha ha ha :rofl:. Still laughing. How can you gauge a reaction when so many are trying to cheat? Look at how Chelsea in their Mourinho heyday used to surround a ref en masse in a pre-ordained way. Utd under Ferguson were similar. You think the ref should take that into account? I'm sorry but you need to ignore players until they start to behave themselves.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			I noticed this immediately and thought he'd get carded, especially as we've seen many players get a yellow for going into the crowd even very recently.  The ref didn't give the yellow possibly knowing it would send him off and possibly knowing his story as a local lad and it being a debut goal, and so here lies the inconsistency, in other words, if he hadn't been already booked and there wasn't a story behind the goal & celebration, would he have received a yellow? I think he would have!

So I think when it suits us we applaud the ref for making a judgement call and interpreting the rule in association with the circumstances at the time, and when it doesn't suit us we want the ref to act on a rule clinically and without any consideration!  

Can we really expect consistency, I don't think so unless you really want to sanitise the game more than it is already!
		
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The other that does my head in is refs who only give 1-2 minutes injury time, because someone has been whacked 5-0 or more, as if feeling sorry for them.

That may have meant 3-4 goal celebrations in the second half, as well as normal subs and injury time, but the ref sees it as "they've had enough" so ends the match early.


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## User62651 (Jan 16, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I want let refs know that it is OK to have a hard , legal  50/50 tackle and that they don't have to feel obliged to stop play and hand a card out each and every time. Its so bloody annoying.
		
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Agree wholeheartedly with this, very frustrating, refs need to remember this is a spectator sport too so flow of the game is important. Son likes me to watch football with him, have to explain that football used to be a contact sport. Imagine Graeme Souness nowadays, would last 5 minutes a game. As long as players play the ball and not the man, hard tackling should be ok...imo. As for the diving, must have gone on back in the day but as tackling was allowed back then it didn't work to the same degree as a cheat tactic. The tactic of attacker stretching the leg out and leaving the foot in contact with a defender then falling down is very annoying. Even the match of the day pundits are saying 'but there was contact so it must be a pen' - daft and needs sorted with retrospective cheat bans/fines......imo.


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## Fish (Jan 16, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			The other that does my head in is refs who only give 1-2 minutes injury time, because someone has been whacked 5-0 or more, as if feeling sorry for them.

That may have meant 3-4 goal celebrations in the second half, as well as normal subs and injury time, but the ref sees it as "they've had enough" so ends the match early.
		
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and another goal could be the difference in qualifying for Europe on goal difference!


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			and another goal could be the difference in qualifying for Europe on goal difference!
		
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Yup, or by the same token. the other team potentially staying up or going down.

A Man U fan in work reckons the Lovren foul was a red card.......:rofl:


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## pokerjoke (Jan 16, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yup, or by the same token. the other team potentially staying up or going down.

A Man U fan in work reckons the Lovren foul was a red card.......:rofl:
		
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I think he must be on a wind up mate.

The trouble with football atm is its gone so soft and the faking injury and cheating has made it difficult to see what is fake and what is real.

Many times I have instinctively said penalty or foul until we see the replays and realise I was wrong,what chance has the ref got when some overpaid pre Madonna is rolling around like he has been shot.

Why are these refs not trained to realise if some idiot is rolling around he has not been hurt.

Herrera and the Man City player should be embarrassed this morning for their respective actions.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 16, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			I think he must be on a wind up mate.

The trouble with football atm is its gone so soft and the faking injury and cheating has made it difficult to see what is fake and what is real.

Many times I have instinctively said penalty or foul until we see the replays and realise I was wrong,what chance has the ref got when some overpaid pre Madonna is rolling around like he has been shot.

Why are these refs not trained to realise if some idiot is rolling around he has not been hurt.

Herrera and the Man City player should be embarrassed this morning for their respective actions.
		
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He was at the match, and said he hasnt seen it since......is the full story.  

So I'll give him the "at the match passion" angle.:thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 16, 2017)

Following on from different posts, there is no doubt there seems to be a big difference in the Refs, some good are judged as awful or biase towards certain teams, some are bad are judged as ok.
Are we being fair to them though? It's a multi billion pound business and for those involved the stakes are huge, should we be giving them more help, whether that's technology or something else I don't know.
It just seems to me at the moment we are expecting them to get every decision right, every single decision.


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## jp5 (Jan 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			It just seems to me at the moment we are expecting them to get every decision right, every single decision.
		
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That's the problem. There's going to be a limit of what one official can judge from one angle in real time in the heat of the cauldron. Vs. a studio full of pundits with multiple slow motion replays.

Linesmen in particular you have to think are guessing a lot of the time - having to look in two places at once, and tracking half a dozen players!

Think I would give teams one review per game, which should rectify any obvious mistakes.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 16, 2017)

We want a linesman to look down the line for offside, oh and look for tugs and pulls, bad fouls etc. Oh and keep up with sprint merchants. Finally make a decision which tv will slow down, use a 3D display and show they will be 3" right or wrong. If 3" wrong, equivalent to 0.01 seconds or something similar, then that person will be pilloried by pundits who wouldn't dream of putting their necks on the line and doing the job. Comfy sofa etc. 

If anyone has ever refereed, done a line etc in any fast sport, amateur level, then they will be largely sympathetic to officials. Those who mouth off tend never to have done it. Very, very difficult job although I would accept that some do not help themselves.


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## freddielong (Jan 16, 2017)

jp5 said:



			That's the problem. There's going to be a limit of what one official can judge from one angle in real time in the heat of the cauldron. Vs. a studio full of pundits with multiple slow motion replays.

Linesmen in particular you have to think are guessing a lot of the time - having to look in two places at once, and tracking half a dozen players!

Think I would give teams one review per game, which should rectify any obvious mistakes.
		
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But when the technology exists to ensure that every descision is correct and the governing body choose not to use it then I think we are entitled to expect parity.


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## sawtooth (Jan 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			That ain't gonna work with all the play acting that goes on and your then inviting players to surround you!
		
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I didn't mean a mother's meeting , just listen out and think for a second or two before making a decision.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 16, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I didn't mean a mother's meeting , just listen out and think for a second or two before making a decision.
		
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I think Mark Clattenburg does that pretty well. He rarely looks rushed, seems to take his time. His heart may be thumping but he outwardly looks as though he is giving himself time to think.


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## jp5 (Jan 16, 2017)

freddielong said:



			But when the technology exists to ensure that every descision is correct and the governing body choose not to use it then I think we are entitled to expect parity.
		
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I'm not sure that it's a case of the governing body choosing not to use it - I don't think there's sufficient demand from fans for the technology.

People raise concerns about slowing the game down, spoiling the 'romanticism' of getting decisions for and against you, etc..

Personally I think it could be implemented properly, and though you'll never get all decisions right (even the pundits don't agree!) I think you could eliminate the howlers with minimal impact on the game.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Following on from different posts, there is no doubt there seems to be a big difference in the Refs, some good are judged as awful or biase towards certain teams, some are bad are judged as ok.
Are we being fair to them though? It's a multi billion pound business and for those involved the stakes are huge, should we be giving them more help, whether that's technology or something else I don't know.
It just seems to me at the moment we are expecting them to get every decision right, every single decision.
		
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There are bad decisions and there will always be bad ones, what I hate is cowardice or uneven refereeing. 

Yesterday, for me, was a prime example of uneven refereeing. I've already listed them out.


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## freddielong (Jan 16, 2017)

jp5 said:



			I'm not sure that it's a case of the governing body choosing not to use it - I don't think there's sufficient demand from fans for the technology.

People raise concerns about slowing the game down, spoiling the 'romanticism' of getting decisions for and against you, etc..

Personally I think it could be implemented properly, and though you'll never get all decisions right (even the pundits don't agree!) I think you could eliminate the howlers with minimal impact on the game.
		
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I agree that the gains to using technology to ensure descisions are mostly correct would soon out way any pains from its use.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 16, 2017)

I don't think you can stop the play for interventions by a TMO. What you could do is have retrospective inspections of contentious points so that punishments could be given out after the game for those moments such as a player having his elbow touched but goes down holding his face.


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## freddielong (Jan 16, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I don't think you can stop the play for interventions by a TMO. What you could do is have retrospective inspections of contentious points so that punishments could be given out after the game for those moments such as a player having his elbow touched but goes down holding his face.
		
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No but goals free kicks etc where there is a natural stop you could ensure the correct decision is given


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 16, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I don't think you can stop the play for interventions by a TMO. What you could do is have retrospective inspections of contentious points so that punishments could be given out after the game for those moments such as a player having his elbow touched but goes down holding his face.
		
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Unless you took points or goals from teams retrospective punishments are useless, ie, what would you do about Man Utd offside goal, take it off them or ban the linesman ?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 16, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			There are bad decisions and there will always be bad ones, what I hate is cowardice or uneven refereeing. 

Yesterday, for me, was a prime example of uneven refereeing. I've already listed them out.
		
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Was it a good Ref having a bad day or just a bad Ref? If he's just had a bad day then how to stop it happening again.


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## Slime (Jan 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Was it a good Ref having a bad day or just a bad Ref? If he's just had a bad day then how to stop it happening again.
		
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It was just yet another ref that is owned by Man United .................... one of so very many, apparently .


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## sawtooth (Jan 16, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think Mark Clattenburg does that pretty well. He rarely looks rushed, seems to take his time. His heart may be thumping but he outwardly looks as though he is giving himself time to think.
		
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It's probably no coincidence that he's one of the best we have.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Following on from different posts, there is no doubt there seems to be a big difference in the Refs, some good are judged as awful or biase towards certain teams, some are bad are judged as ok.
Are we being fair to them though? It's a multi billion pound business and for those involved the stakes are huge, should we be giving them more help, whether that's technology or something else I don't know.
It just seems to me at the moment we are expecting them to get every decision right, every single decision.
		
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If you run into the crowd the ref should not miss that.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 16, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			If you run into the crowd the ref should not miss that.
		
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The Liverpool fan in you is coming out, did you feel the same when Lovren should've got a 2nd yellow in the Derby when he and Coleman played handbags after Barkley should've been red carded?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			The Liverpool fan in you is coming out, did you feel the same when Lovren should've got a 2nd yellow in the Derby when he and Coleman played handbags after Barkley should've been red carded?
		
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Why are you going on about games from months back ? Why does his comment make him a Liverpool fan ? 

Did Davies go into the crowd - if yes then he scored have been yellow carded don't you agree ?


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			The Liverpool fan in you is coming out, did you feel the same when Lovren should've got a 2nd yellow in the Derby when he and Coleman played handbags after Barkley should've been red carded?
		
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Whats that got to do with consistency in referees .
simple question should Davies get a yellow for going into the crowd. .Yes Or No


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 16, 2017)

Quality from Pep. 
Such a brave little boy,certainly puts things into perspective.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 16, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I don't think you can stop the play for interventions by a TMO. What you could do is have retrospective inspections of contentious points so that punishments could be given out after the game for those moments such as a player having his elbow touched but goes down holding his face.
		
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Someone on here muted the idea from RL and that was to put players on report. Have a white card (for arguments sake) and the referee could give that if he thinks something has gone on but hasn't got a decent view and it's not picked up by the other officials. Surely this could be used in those tackles where it looks iffy but there's an element of doubt and could therefore stop some players walking which would keep the sides equal. Similarly use it for perceived simulation or serious foul play like the chest push yesterday and the player going down holding their face. If there's a case, the FA/PL can give a retrospective red/yellow depending on the severity


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 16, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Whats that got to do with consistency in referees .
simple question should Davies get a yellow for going into the crowd. .Yes Or No
		
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If you took the time to read previous posts you'd see I'd already said he was a lucky lad and should've been booked! Hence why I thought you being a Red was making a point.

Coleman ran 20-25 yds and was booked, him and Lovren who ran 15-20 yds pushing each other, only one was booked, were's the consistencey?


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Was it a good Ref having a bad day or just a bad Ref? If he's just had a bad day then how to stop it happening again.
		
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Who knows? 

Make them more responsible for their decisions would be a start.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			If you took the time to read previous posts you'd see I'd already said he was a lucky lad and should've been booked! Hence why I thought you being a Red was making a point.

Coleman ran 20-25 yds and was booked, him and Lovren who ran 15-20 yds pushing each other, only one was booked, were's the consistencey?
		
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You are not a Politician are you as you can't answer yes or no.
I can't see your point we both agree refs are inconsistent 
most fans wear red or blue glasses .
the Man U fans thought the ref favoured us 
the Liverpool fans think otherwise.
the Coleman booking was the linesman who told the ref.
he can't be looking both ways at once 
the linesman yesterday could not see Valencia was offside from 10ft because he got himself in a very poor position.
but there really is no excuse for not seeing a player run into the fans as the game is stopped and most players are booked for it.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 16, 2017)

Slime said:



			It was just yet another ref that is owned by Man United .................... one of so very many, apparently .
		
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Go on then, give me the Man U version of refs decisions yesterday.

I havent called him a Man U fan BTW, just questioned his uneven decision making for very similar situations. Your version?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 16, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			You are not a Politician are you as you can't answer yes or no.
I can't see your point we both agree refs are inconsistent 
most fans wear red or blue glasses .
the Man U fans thought the ref favoured us 
the Liverpool fans think otherwise.
the Coleman booking was the linesman who told the ref.
he can't be looking both ways at once 
the linesman yesterday could not see Valencia was offside from 10ft because he got himself in a very poor position.
but there really is no excuse for not seeing a player run into the fans as the game is stopped and most players are booked for it.
		
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So your way of proving Referees are inconsistent is to give examples were the Linesman got it wrong :rofl:
No mention of ignoring previous posts :thup:
Still no mention of whether Lovren should've been booked or not!


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Go on then, give me the Man U version of refs decisions yesterday.

I havent called him a Man U fan BTW, just questioned his uneven decision making for very similar situations. Your version?
		
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pogba should be done for assault on Henderson.

i have taken the dog for shorter walks than Herrera had hold of Firminos shirt then went down like he had been shot in the face but think Firminos very lucky to stay on you just can't do that these days.

Rooneys was a very poor tackle on Millner.

Linesman not in line with last man so could not see offside.

officials very poor but have to control 22 cheats they all do it.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			So your way of proving Referees are inconsistent is to give examples were the Linesman got it wrong :rofl:
No mention of ignoring previous posts :thup:
Still no mention of whether Lovren should've been booked or not!
		
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Yes or no.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 16, 2017)

As fans we all of us see incorrect decisions that go against us but overlook the others.

The same linesman who missed Valencia being offside also wrongly gave Rooney offside but fortunately his effort was saved. Had it not been I wonder what the Liverpool fans would now be saying about the decision and a perfectly good goal had been disallowed.

Impossible for the committed fan to make objective assessments?


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 16, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			As fans we all of us see incorrect decisions that go against us but overlook the others.

The same linesman who missed Valencia being offside also wrongly gave Rooney offside but fortunately his effort was saved. Had it not been I wonder what the Liverpool fans would now be saying about the decision and a perfectly good goal had been disallowed.

Impossible for the committed fan to make objective assessments?
		
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It is hard to be objective as a match-going passionate fan, I'm sure you can relate to that. Its even harder when its a derby game.

However, I wont say black is white. I might have 20 odd years ago, but most of us mature with age, but not all.

I cant remember that Rooney one.:whoo:

That was the exception that proved the rule.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			As fans we all of us see incorrect decisions that go against us but overlook the others.

The same linesman who missed Valencia being offside also wrongly gave Rooney offside but fortunately his effort was saved. Had it not been I wonder what the Liverpool fans would now be saying about the decision and a perfectly good goal had been disallowed.

Impossible for the committed fan to make objective assessments?
		
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Agree with this but that's part of the fun.

my mate some years ago made a computer program that could reverse the kits on teams playing together , most fans reversed their opinions as they could not admit their team was at fault it was very interesting..


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 16, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes or no.
		
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Yes or no what?


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			So your way of proving Referees are inconsistent is to give examples were the Linesman got it wrong :rofl:
No mention of ignoring previous posts :thup:
Still no mention of whether Lovren should've been booked or not!
		
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If you agree the linesman got it wrong how can the ref book Lovren if he did not see it.
I do think Lovren should have been booked yes.

as for the previous posts typical blue nose living in the past.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Yes or no what?
		
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well read the previous posts ike you told me.
Davies into crowd yellow yes or no.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 16, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			If you agree the linesman got it wrong how can the ref book Lovren if he did not see it.
I do think Lovren should have been booked yes.

as for the previous posts typical blue nose living in the past.
		
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Please tell me what you're on about "living in the past" you've lost me on that one.

What was the Ref doing when Coleman and Lovren were pushing each other.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 16, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			well read the previous posts ike you told me.
Davies into crowd yellow yes or no.
		
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Just for you, already stated on the thread at 09:41 this morning that he was a lucky lad because he should've been booked,


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## Fish (Jan 16, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			I cant remember that Rooney one.:whoo:
		
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Selective memory loss of just an age thing &#128540;


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Please tell me what you're on about "living in the past" you've lost me on that one.

What was the Ref doing when Coleman and Lovren were pushing each other.[/

how do do I know what the ref was doing , but if he had to take the linesmans word for it he obviously wasn't watching the handbags or he would have booked both of them.

The ref was probably watching the other 20 cheats the players really don't help.

most blues still think they are a big club like in the past , you were once but not anymore.

Liverpool are not what they used to be its all about money these days.
		
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## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Just for you, already stated on the thread at 09:41 this morning that he was a lucky lad because he should've been booked,
		
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still can't see a yes.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 16, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:





pauldj42 said:



			Please tell me what you're on about "living in the past" you've lost me on that one.

What was the Ref doing when Coleman and Lovren were pushing each other.[/

how do do I know what the ref was doing , but if he had to take the linesmans word for it he obviously wasn't watching the handbags or he would have booked both of them.

The ref was probably watching the other 20 cheats the players really don't help.

most blues still think they are a big club like in the past , you were once but not anymore.

Liverpool are not what they used to be its all about money these days.
		
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I've not stated anything about being a big club you're making yourself look a bit daft with that comment.

I take it saying Davies should've been booked means something else to you, because to me it means yes.

Have a read of Liverbirdie or Stu_C's posts, they're good at banter, you could learn a lot from them :thup:
		
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## Liverbirdie (Jan 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			Selective memory loss of just an age thing &#63004;
		
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Didnt show it on the highlights.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:





clubchamp98 said:



			I've not stated anything about being a big club you're making yourself look a bit daft with that comment.

I take it saying Davies should've been booked means something else to you, because to me it means yes.

Have a read of Liverbirdie or Stu_C's posts, they're good at banter, you could learn a lot from them :thup:
		
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My main point about the past was we were talking about referees you brought it up about the derby match weeks ago.

why not just say yes when you mean yes then.

yes because they speak sense not like you.
		
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## sawtooth (Jan 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Matip start full training this week and could be on the bench on Saturday
		
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Or maybe not.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38638651

Curious situation.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 17, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Or maybe not.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38638651

Curious situation.
		
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Very strange seeing as he's retired from international duties, either way it needs sorting ASAP.


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## sawtooth (Jan 17, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Very strange seeing as he's retired from international duties, either way it needs sorting ASAP.
		
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You still have Klavan. &#128537;


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			As fans we all of us see incorrect decisions that go against us but overlook the others.

The same linesman who missed Valencia being offside also wrongly gave Rooney offside but fortunately his effort was saved. Had it not been I wonder what the Liverpool fans would now be saying about the decision and a perfectly good goal had been disallowed.

Impossible for the committed fan to make objective assessments?
		
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"IF" Rooney had scored and the linesman had incorrectly flagged then the Mancs would have been rightly annoyed at a poor decision from the linesman - but he didn't score and perfectly good goal wasn't disallowed and it didn't affect the result unlike the other mistake he made that did affect the result


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Or maybe not.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38638651

Curious situation.
		
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Another reason to dislike international Football

Matip stopped played for Cameroon in 2015 - he told them he didn't want to be selected anymore as is his right to do. 

18 months later Cameroon decided to call him despite the players wishes and FIFA as per usual don't have the balls to tell stick up for the players who no longer wish to play international football. Cameroon shouldn't have a leg to stand on - the club pay his wages and right now the club are not allowed to play him - but if it came down to it FIFA would always stand on the side of the country ( gotta make sure those votes keep coming in ) 

It's a joke of a situation made worse by having the tournament during the main European season


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:





pauldj42 said:



			My main point about the past was we were talking about referees you brought it up about the derby match weeks ago.

why not just say yes when you mean yes then.

yes because they speak sense not like you.
		
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Because I mention a game played less than a month ago I'm living in the past :rofl: :rofl:
		
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## garyinderry (Jan 17, 2017)

We often call for refs to use common sense.  That is why he didn't send the young Everton player off.   its a silly rule anyway. 

Great to see the passion.   would have been worth the red had he received it.


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## sawtooth (Jan 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Matip stopped played for Cameroon in 2015 - he told them he didn't want to be selected anymore as is his right to do.
		
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Any particular reason for stopping International football at 23-24 yrs old? It's the players prerogative I agree, just curious that's all. 

Most young footballers would jump at the chance I am sure, if for no other reason than to raise their profile and value.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			"IF" Rooney had scored and the linesman had incorrectly flagged then the Mancs would have been rightly annoyed at a poor decision from the linesman - but he didn't score and perfectly good goal wasn't disallowed and it didn't affect the result unlike the other mistake he made that did affect the result
		
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You completely miss the point.

If we are fans of the side on the receiving end of a poor decision we react as if it only ever goes against our team and overlook any similarly poor decisions that may go in our favour.

As is often said, these things usually balance themselves.


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## Kellfire (Jan 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Matip stopped played for Cameroon in 2015 - he told them he didn't want to be selected anymore as is his right to do.
		
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I could be mistaken but isn't this the point, that it isn't his right to do?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Any particular reason for stopping International football at 23-24 yrs old? It's the players prerogative I agree, just curious that's all. 

Most young footballers would jump at the chance I am sure, if for no other reason than to raise their profile and value.
		
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He didn't retire, he fell out with the then management and was also injured, he then said he doesn't want to play at this time to concentrate on Liverpool.

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2016/1...el-matip-wont-face-suspension-cameroon-exile/


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2017)

Also stated in this interview about situation changing.

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/liverpool/s...iss-african-nations-cup-to-focus-on-liverpool


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			I could be mistaken but isn't this the point, that it isn't his right to do?
		
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Of course it's the players right - if he doesn't want to play for his country then he shouldn't be forced too. Every player should have the right to decide.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Of course it's the players right - if he doesn't want to play for his country then he shouldn't be forced too. Every player should have the right to decide.
		
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Totally agree, but he hasn't actually retired has he? So I can understand Cameroon picking him as they want their best squad, however, then accepting he doesn't want to play in this tournament.


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## freddielong (Jan 17, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Any particular reason for stopping International football at 23-24 yrs old? It's the players prerogative I agree, just curious that's all. 

Most young footballers would jump at the chance I am sure, if for no other reason than to raise their profile and value.
		
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Perhaps FIFA are concerned that the player or players could be pressured into rejecting international football, I am not saying it's the case here but there must be instances where a club says reject your national team and we will give you .....
Or don't play African cup of nations and we will sign you.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 17, 2017)

Playing devils advocate here. Many managers put pressure on players not to play international football, there are some obvious examples on our own shores. In terms of African and Latin American players matches will involve long haul flights, sometimes questionable medical help and short turn arounds when they return from a midweek match. For the ACON the players are clearly away for a number of weeks and that has quite an impact on a club. It is not hard to see club managers and officials putting pressure on young players not to represent their countries and that is why this rule was brought in. Yes, there will be some occasions where players genuinely don't want to play but I believe you can appeal. The idea behind the rule is sound though IMO.


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## freddielong (Jan 17, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Playing devils advocate here. Many managers put pressure on players not to play international football, there are some obvious examples on our own shores. In terms of African and Latin American players matches will involve long haul flights, sometimes questionable medical help and short turn arounds when they return from a midweek match. For the ACON the players are clearly away for a number of weeks and that has quite an impact on a club. It is not hard to see club managers and officials putting pressure on young players not to represent their countries and that is why this rule was brought in. Yes, there will be some occasions where players genuinely don't want to play but I believe you can appeal. The idea behind the rule is sound though IMO.
		
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Great minds and all that


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## pbrown7582 (Jan 17, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Didnt show it on the *highlights*.

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that's another age thing......


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Playing devils advocate here. Many managers put pressure on players not to play international football, there are some obvious examples on our own shores. In terms of African and Latin American players matches will involve long haul flights, sometimes questionable medical help and short turn arounds when they return from a midweek match. For the ACON the players are clearly away for a number of weeks and that has quite an impact on a club. It is not hard to see club managers and officials putting pressure on young players not to represent their countries and that is why this rule was brought in. Yes, there will be some occasions where players genuinely don't want to play but I believe you can appeal. The idea behind the rule is sound though IMO.
		
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Sounds better if you use the word retired, that way Cameroon look bad.


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## pbrown7582 (Jan 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Of course it's the players right - if he doesn't want to play for his country then he shouldn't be forced too. Every player should have the right to decide.
		
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not according to FIFA again its always different when its your own clubs players.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Playing devils advocate here. Many managers put pressure on players not to play international football, there are some obvious examples on our own shores. In terms of African and Latin American players matches will involve long haul flights, sometimes questionable medical help and short turn arounds when they return from a midweek match. For the ACON the players are clearly away for a number of weeks and that has quite an impact on a club. It is not hard to see club managers and officials putting pressure on young players not to represent their countries and that is why this rule was brought in. Yes, there will be some occasions where players genuinely don't want to play but I believe you can appeal. The idea behind the rule is sound though IMO.
		
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The player decided that he didn't want to play in this comp a while back - no pressure is being applied to any player 

Players should always have the right to choose - the clubs pay their wages and the clubs are the ones that suffer if something happens when they go away. 

If someone wants to play international football then no one should stop him and I expect that's what happens - managers putting pressure on players not to go to tournaments ? I don't think that's the case , maybe meaningless friendlies some managers may speak to players carrying an injury or tired etc 

But if a player himself doesn't want to go and would prefer to play for the club that pays his wage then he should be allowed to do that without any punishments. 

The clubs are the ones that take any hits in regards the players yet they are the ones that pay the players. Club should always come first


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 17, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Great minds and all that
		
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Oh yes :cheers:


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## sawtooth (Jan 17, 2017)

Damn, just typed out a post and deleted it by accident!!

Not typing all again but basically if Liverpool asked player not to play in ACN I don't have a problem with that. It's up to the player he has the final say surely.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The player decided that he didn't want to play in this comp a while back - no pressure is being applied to any player 

Players should always have the right to choose - the clubs pay their wages and the clubs are the ones that suffer if something happens when they go away. 

If someone wants to play international football then no one should stop him and I expect that's what happens - managers putting pressure on players not to go to tournaments ? I don't think that's the case , maybe meaningless friendlies some managers may speak to players carrying an injury or tired etc 

But if a player himself doesn't want to go and would prefer to play for the club that pays his wage then he should be allowed to do that without any punishments. 

The clubs are the ones that take any hits in regards the players yet they are the ones that pay the players. Club should always come first
		
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So he's not retired then? Maybe he needs too to stop this happening in the future, otherwise all Countries will choose their best players.
I wholeheartedly agree players have a right to choose and none should be forced, but you can't pick and choose which Tournament is OK and which isn't when you're fully fit as that's not fair on your Country either.


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## MegaSteve (Jan 17, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			We often call for refs to use common sense.  That is why he didn't send the young Everton player off.   its a silly rule anyway. 

Great to see the passion.   would have been worth the red had he received it.
		
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Couldn't put it better myself...


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 17, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Damn, just typed out a post and deleted it by accident!!

Not typing all again but basically if Liverpool asked player not to play in ACN I don't have a problem with that. It's up to the player he has the final say surely.
		
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What if the player is 20 and intimidated by his big scary manager? He wants to play for his country but the manager is leaning on him, a la Fergie. That is where the governing body, FIFA, have to help. Take it out of the players hands, remove the power of intimidation from the manager or club.


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## garyinderry (Jan 17, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			Couldn't put it better myself...
		
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Oh and I guarantee you, had the ref sent him off, sky would have had a whole host of clips showing booked players jumping into the fans.  

The referees cannot win.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 17, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			As is often said, these things usually balance themselves.
		
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Its often said, but its the biggest load of bull in football.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 17, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Playing devils advocate here. Many managers put pressure on players not to play international football, there are some obvious examples on our own shores. In terms of African and Latin American players matches will involve long haul flights, sometimes questionable medical help and short turn arounds when they return from a midweek match. For the ACON the players are clearly away for a number of weeks and that has quite an impact on a club. It is not hard to see club managers and officials putting pressure on young players not to represent their countries and that is why this rule was brought in. Yes, there will be some occasions where players genuinely don't want to play but I believe you can appeal. The idea behind the rule is sound though IMO.
		
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But if he wasn't playing for Cameroon when he was latterly at Schalke, its not Liverpool putting pressure on him not to play, but a player's own decision.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 17, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What if the player is 20 and intimidated by his big scary manager? He wants to play for his country but the manager is leaning on him, a la Fergie. That is where the governing body, FIFA, have to help. Take it out of the players hands, remove the power of intimidation from the manager or club.
		
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I can understand that, but what if he genuinely doesn't want to play for them?

Maybe you have to officially retire and you sign an affidavit saying you are retiring yourself, and it lasts for your whole career, or at least 5 years. 

It would possibly make them think twice, especially if you think you will move club at some stage. Maybe that's the sensible halfway option.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 17, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			But if he wasn't playing for Cameroon when he was latterly at Schalke, its not Liverpool putting pressure on him not to play, but a player's own decision.
		
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I totally understand that. He is getting caught in a rule that protects players and the international game on the whole but he is the exception. Cameroon can resolve this quite easily by signing him off but they are being awkward I believe.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 17, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I totally understand that. He is getting caught in a rule that protects players and the international game on the whole but he is the exception. Cameroon can resolve this quite easily by signing him off but they are being awkward I believe.
		
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So typical of FIFA. BY "protecting" the players interests, he now cant play at all.

It is a minefield, but there should be transparent way forward. If you want to retire from int'l football, you do so for say 3 years minimum.


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## ger147 (Jan 17, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			I can understand that, but what if he genuinely doesn't want to play for them?

Maybe you have to officially retire and you sign an affidavit saying you are retiring yourself, and it lasts for your whole career, or at least 5 years. 

It would possibly make them think twice, especially if you think you will move club at some stage. Maybe that's the sensible halfway option.
		
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There is no notion of "retirement" from international football within FIFA's rules.

If your country selects you, you are obliged to turn up. As an individual, you are of course free not to turn up if you so choose, there are no FIFA snatch squads. But if you do decide not to turn up, the rules are crystal clear i.e. you cannot play for your club if selected for international duty but you choose not to go unless your country give permission.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			So typical of FIFA. BY "protecting" the players interests, he now cant play at all.

It is a minefield, but there should be transparent way forward. If you want to retire from int'l football, you do so for say 3 years minimum.
		
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He hasn't retired though Pete, you may think it's semantics, but unless a player clearly states he has retired from international duty and no longer wishes to be considered for selelection then he's risking being called up, in the interview in October he stated he "wouldn't be playing in the ANC, but things may change", surely there's a breakdown in communication between him and Cameroon prior to him being called up, FIFA are rubbish and I can't see them doing the right thing by Matip.


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## sawtooth (Jan 17, 2017)

I think the situation at Liverpool is that they don't know where they stand at the moment and are erring on the side of caution.

Is that right? FIFA haven't explicitly said that Liverpool cant play Matip have they? rather they don't want to take a chance in case of any penalties later on.


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## freddielong (Jan 17, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I think the situation at Liverpool is that they don't know where they stand at the moment and are erring on the side of caution.

Is that right? FIFA haven't explicitly said that Liverpool cant play Matip have they? rather they don't want to take a chance in case of any penalties later on.
		
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I thought FIFA had said that they cannot play him as cameron haven't said that it's ok


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I think the situation at Liverpool is that they don't know where they stand at the moment and are erring on the side of caution.

Is that right? FIFA haven't explicitly said that Liverpool cant play Matip have they? rather they don't want to take a chance in case of any penalties later on.
		
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Cameroon have lodged a complaint against Matip, so LPool unfortunately have to be sensible in case Cameroon win tge complaint and LPool risk losing points! Would be nice if the FA stepped in and told Cameroon and FIFA to ram it.


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## sawtooth (Jan 17, 2017)

freddielong said:



			I thought FIFA had said that they cannot play him as cameron haven't said that it's ok
		
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pauldj42 said:



			Cameroon have lodged a complaint against Matip, so LPool unfortunately have to be sensible in case Cameroon win tge complaint and LPool risk losing points! Would be nice if the FA stepped in and told Cameroon and FIFA to ram it.
		
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One thing is clear, Liverpool should not have found themselves in this position, they have handled it badly. :ears:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			One thing is clear, Liverpool should not have found themselves in this position, they have handled it badly. :ears:
		
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Please enlighten us into how the club could have handled it any different to "so they wouldn't be found to be in this position"


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Please enlighten us into how the club could have handled it any different to "so they wouldn't be found to be in this position"
		
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Maybe providing Matip with advice or communicating with Cameroon on his behalf, to suddenly withdraw him on sunday hours before the game suggests there was no pre-emptive action been taken.
Cameroon announced the squad in December with Matip in.
Liverpool - "Excuse Mr Matip I see you've been included in the squad"

Matip - "It's ok I've withdrawn"

LPool - "OK, Have you had a response from the Cameroon FA ?"

Matip - "Not yet or Yes"

LPool - "OK, keep us informed and let is know if we can help"

Etc etc,


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## freddielong (Jan 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Please enlighten us into how the club could have handled it any different to "so they wouldn't be found to be in this position"
		
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They could have ensured that Cameroon agreed that he wasn't eligible for selection months ago they could have easily had this locked down way before it became an issue, but of course you won't see that.


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## Slime (Jan 17, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Go on then, give me the Man U version of refs decisions yesterday.

I havent called him a Man U fan BTW, just questioned his uneven decision making for very similar situations. Your version?
		
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Maybe I'm not very good at irony!
The referee, in my unbiased opinion, favoured United .................... there, I've said it.
But isn't it generally the norm that the home side benefits from this?
It shouldn't be, but it is.
There will always be exceptions to the rule but, having watched United for decades, I find that they generally benefit from wrong decisions at Old Trafford, but this isn't necessarilly the case when playing away.
Oh, and don't forget, like most supporters, I do find it difficult to be impartial when discussing my own team :thup:.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 17, 2017)

Bloody hell the way this is going  you would have thought they lost Pele


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2017)

freddielong said:



			They could have ensured that Cameroon agreed that he wasn't eligible for selection months ago they could have easily had this locked down way before it became an issue, but of course you won't see that.
		
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Yet FIFA could have sorted this out a while back 

http://thecomeback.com/32flags/fifa...arding-joel-matip-liverpool-and-cameroon.html

Even back in august it appeared the Cameroon manager was leaving it up to the player

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.li...ool-defender-matips-self-imposed-11820074.amp

So from that is looks like Cameroon have called up a number of players they know didn't want to play in the tournament but called them up anyway so that they can get some financial compensation from the clubs


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## freddielong (Jan 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yet FIFA could have sorted this out a while back 

http://thecomeback.com/32flags/fifa...arding-joel-matip-liverpool-and-cameroon.html

Even back in august it appeared the Cameroon manager was leaving it up to the player

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.li...ool-defender-matips-self-imposed-11820074.amp

So from that is looks like Cameroon have called up a number of players they know didn't want to play in the tournament but called them up anyway so that they can get some financial compensation from the clubs
		
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Its Liverpool who suffer though, you don't leave things like this up to other people, you take responsibility and you ensure its not going to bite you, why would you leave it up to FIFA.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yet FIFA could have sorted this out a while back 

http://thecomeback.com/32flags/fifa...arding-joel-matip-liverpool-and-cameroon.html

Even back in august it appeared the Cameroon manager was leaving it up to the player

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.li...ool-defender-matips-self-imposed-11820074.amp

So from that is looks like Cameroon have called up a number of players they know didn't want to play in the tournament but called them up anyway so that they can get some financial compensation from the clubs
		
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One link claims Matip has made no contact and the other link the Author admits the money thing is only HIS theory.

So no clarification as to why LPool didn't get involved to help Matip.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Its Liverpool who suffer though, you don't leave things like this up to other people, you take responsibility and you ensure its not going to bite you, why would you leave it up to FIFA.
		
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Liverpool have already gone to FIFA who "claim they are investigating" - either way it's with FIFA there is nothing more the clubs involved ( 5 other players involved ) can do - their players don't want to go , the clubs don't want them to go - the FA has called them up - so right now the club needs to wait until FIFA pull their finger out. If the FA calls up a player the clubs can ask for the player to be released - if the FA don't then it's up to FIFA - any agreements prior are meaningless. FIFA are the governing body and it is up to them to decide


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2017)

Back tracking a bit after a bit of research Matip has not been included in Cameroons final 21 man squad, Liverpool asked the Cameroon FA for clarification weeks ago that Matip would be eligible to play for them, they have not responded and LPool have asked FIFA to step in and sort it out.
If they play him and Cameroon complain as they've threatened they might, LPool could lose points or be thrown out of the FA Cup.
Don't think LPool could of done anymore than maybe get Matip to clarify his position.


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## sawtooth (Jan 17, 2017)

freddielong said:



			They could have ensured that Cameroon *agreed that he wasn't eligible for selection months ago *they could have easily had this locked down way before it became an issue, but of course you won't see that.
		
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Exactly right. 

Dear FIFA as we all know the ACN is coming up in a few months time and I have a question about one of our players.......we obviously want to get this sorted now so we all know where we stand should Mr Matip get selected...please let us know soonest as we will all look a bit silly come January otherwise.......many Thanks.

Its not that difficult.


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## freddielong (Jan 17, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Exactly right. 

Dear FIFA as we all know the ACN is coming up in a few months time and I have a question about one of our players.......we obviously want to get this sorted now so we all know where we stand should Mr Matip get selected...please let us know soonest as we will all look a bit silly come January otherwise.......many Thanks.

Its not that difficult.

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Exactly, but of course it isn't Liverpools fault. &#128077;


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Exactly right. 

Dear FIFA as we all know the ACN is coming up in a few months time and I have a question about one of our players.......we obviously want to get this sorted now so we all know where we stand should Mr Matip get selected...please let us know soonest as we will all look a bit silly come January otherwise.......many Thanks.

Its not that difficult.

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You do know that Liverpool have asked and did ask a while back if Matip could play whilst the ACN is on - it's not as if they suddenly asked on Friday so that he can play on the Sunday 

Matip ended up not being part of the 21 man squad along with a number of others so they have attempted to clarify if Matip can play but FIFA are not communicating with the clubs 

I know it's strange to blame someone else but maybe do a tiny bit of research- and there are a number of clubs including West Brom in the same position

So maybe it's a bit more difficult than sending an email


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## NWJocko (Jan 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You do know that Liverpool have asked and did ask a while back if Matip could play whilst the ACN is on - it's not as if they suddenly asked on Friday so that he can play on the Sunday 

Matip ended up not being part of the 21 man squad along with a number of others so they have attempted to clarify if Matip can play but FIFA are not communicating with the clubs 

I know it's strange to blame someone else but maybe do a tiny bit of research- and there are a number of clubs including West Brom in the same position

So maybe it's a bit more difficult than sending an email 

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Sort of missed all this, seems a bit bizarre.

If he hasn't been called up to squad why could Liverpool face sanctions if they play him?  Isn't he now in the same position any other Cameroon players not in the squad are?

That said, it is FIFA involved so no surprise it's a bit odd!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2017)

NWJocko said:



			Sort of missed all this, seems a bit bizarre.

If he hasn't been called up to squad why could Liverpool face sanctions if they play him?  Isn't he now in the same position any other Cameroon players not in the squad are?

That said, it is FIFA involved so no surprise it's a bit odd!
		
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I think it comes down to Cameroon wanted him to be in the squad but he declined the call up so the club are trying to find out if that means he is eligible to play for the club - it appears FIFA just quoted to the rules to them instead of being human and speaking to clarify if he can play or not. The club believe he can but with FIFA anything is possible and you just know they would look for sanctions


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2017)

NWJocko said:



			Sort of missed all this, seems a bit bizarre.

If he hasn't been called up to squad why could Liverpool face sanctions if they play him?  Isn't he now in the same position any other Cameroon players not in the squad are?

That said, it is FIFA involved so no surprise it's a bit odd!
		
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He was initially in the 30 man squad announced in December, whittled down after injuries, no shows etc.


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## sawtooth (Jan 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You do know that Liverpool have asked and did ask a while back if Matip could play whilst the ACN is on - it's not as if they suddenly asked on Friday so that he can play on the Sunday 

Matip ended up not being part of the 21 man squad along with a number of others so they have attempted to clarify if Matip can play but FIFA are not communicating with the clubs 

I know it's strange to blame someone else but maybe do a tiny bit of research- and there are a number of clubs including West Brom in the same position

So maybe it's a bit more difficult than sending an email 

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That's feeble Phil and if that truly was the case then Liverpool still at fault for not following up. 

Pick up the phone then.

Dear FIFA this is Liverpool FC can I talk to somebody about Matip?

I sent a mail last week and I am concerned that I have not heard anything....And we are only 8 weeks from the start of the ACN.....

The chances are that Liverpool left it a bit late and sprung it on FIFA last minute.


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## NWJocko (Jan 17, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			He was initially in the 30 man squad announced in December, whittled down after injuries, no shows etc.
		
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Surely any standby players in the original 30 that didn't make the cut aren't ineligible to play for their club side though?

Maybe more to it if he would have been in the final cut and has just refused to play.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			That's feeble Phil and if that truly was the case then Liverpool still at fault for not following up. 

Pick up the phone then.

Dear FIFA this is Liverpool FC can I talk to somebody about Matip?

I sent a mail last week and I am concerned that I have not heard anything....And we are only 8 weeks from the start of the ACN.....

The chances are that Liverpool left it a bit late and sprung it on FIFA last minute.
		
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As I suggested maybe do a bit of research into it instead of just blindly blaming the. Club 


*Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp says Fifa will decide on Friday whether to open an investigation into Joel Matipâ€™s availability for his club.

But the governing body has warned the process to decide whether Matip should be representing Cameroon at the African Cup of Nations could then take another 10 days, ruling the defender out for a further four games.

Klopp does not want to wait that long and admitted he could bring the matter to a conclusion by selecting the 25-year-old against Plymouth Argyle in the FA Cup. That runs the risk of Liverpool facing sanctions for playing an ineligible player.

â€œI have not been in a situation like this in my life,â€ said Klopp.

â€œThe thing is I think I have to try. I donâ€™t want to blame anybody but our supporters deserve to know the process we are in. In this moment we are sure we did nothing wrong. We are sure Joel Matip did nothing wrong. He did not play for Cameroon since 2015.

â€œSince he has been here is not a Cameroon national player. He is not in the squad of Cameroon so he could not play for Cameroon but we have no 100 per cent guarantee he could play for us. The last few weeks we were getting more busy with all departments and the procedure is that I would consider playing him tomorrow, but I am not sure if I can.â€

Klopp revealed Fifa have decided to look at the case, but they are not acting quickly enough. Matip finds himself in limbo while the process is ongoing.

â€œFifa told us (on Friday) they will decide if they will open a case about it or not. I accept rules in life, wherever, but they should be based on human sense. It is difficult. If he was not injured he could not play since Jan 2. 

â€œIf we go to Friday and they open a case, it would be seven to 10 days before we get a decision, that would mean Plymouth, Swansea, and another two games â€“ eight games since Jan 2. *

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.te...gation-ongoing-joel-matip-saga-liverpool/amp/


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 17, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Oh and I guarantee you, had the ref sent him off, sky would have had a whole host of clips showing booked players jumping into the fans.  

The referees cannot win.
		
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Am sure players have been sent off for this and taking shirt off.

put your self in Lanzinnis shoes he got booked on Saturday for this.

its a stupid rule and shirts off as well bare chested men all over the telly / boxing swimming etc, so what's the problem in football stadia.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 17, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Maybe providing Matip with advice or communicating with Cameroon on his behalf, to suddenly withdraw him on sunday hours before the game suggests there was no pre-emptive action been taken.
Cameroon announced the squad in December with Matip in.
Liverpool - "Excuse Mr Matip I see you've been included in the squad"

Matip - "It's ok I've withdrawn"

LPool - "OK, Have you had a response from the Cameroon FA ?"

Matip - "Not yet or Yes"

LPool - "OK, keep us informed and let is know if we can help"

Etc etc,
		
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yes this is right everyone talks like he is 16 yrs old he is 23 I think.

this should have been sorted by all these advisers they have.

when do footballers take responsibility for their own actions this is Matips own fault.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2017)

NWJocko said:



			Surely any standby players in the original 30 that didn't make the cut aren't ineligible to play for their club side though?

Maybe more to it if he would have been in the final cut and has just refused to play.
		
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Unfortunately I think Cameroon are being the problem, Matip didn't play for them for over 18 months due to injury and personality clash, then declared he was taking an international break (not retire) to regain full fitness and concentrate on club football.
In an interview with Telegraph in Oct he declared he wouldn't play in ANC but things could change, Cameroon FA reckon they've tried to contact him over 25 times to discuss his break from international football, selected him hoping he'd turn up and now if LPool play him they run the risk of Cameroon making official complaint, if he plays and they don't no issue, but currently Cameroon won't give that promise hence LPool going to FIFA for help.


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## NWJocko (Jan 17, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Unfortunately I think Cameroon are being the problem, Matip didn't play for them for over 18 months due to injury and personality clash, then declared he was taking an international break (not retire) to regain full fitness and concentrate on club football.
In an interview with Telegraph in Oct he declared he wouldn't play in ANC but things could change, Cameroon FA reckon they've tried to contact him over 25 times to discuss his break from international football, selected him hoping he'd turn up and now if LPool play him they run the risk of Cameroon making official complaint, if he plays and they don't no issue, but currently Cameroon won't give that promise hence LPool going to FIFA for help.
		
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Cheers, understand a bit better now :thup:


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## sawtooth (Jan 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As I suggested maybe do a bit of research into it instead of just blindly blaming the. Club 


*Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp says Fifa will decide on Friday whether to open an investigation into Joel Matipâ€™s availability for his club.

But the governing body has warned the process to decide whether Matip should be representing Cameroon at the African Cup of Nations could then take another 10 days, ruling the defender out for a further four games.

Klopp does not want to wait that long and admitted he could bring the matter to a conclusion by selecting the 25-year-old against Plymouth Argyle in the FA Cup. That runs the risk of Liverpool facing sanctions for playing an ineligible player.

â€œI have not been in a situation like this in my life,â€ said Klopp.

â€œThe thing is I think I have to try. I donâ€™t want to blame anybody but our supporters deserve to know the process we are in. In this moment we are sure we did nothing wrong. We are sure Joel Matip did nothing wrong. He did not play for Cameroon since 2015.

â€œSince he has been here is not a Cameroon national player. He is not in the squad of Cameroon so he could not play for Cameroon but we have no 100 per cent guarantee he could play for us. The last few weeks we were getting more busy with all departments and the procedure is that I would consider playing him tomorrow, but I am not sure if I can.â€

Klopp revealed Fifa have decided to look at the case, but they are not acting quickly enough. Matip finds himself in limbo while the process is ongoing.

â€œFifa told us (on Friday) they will decide if they will open a case about it or not. I accept rules in life, wherever, but they should be based on human sense. It is difficult. If he was not injured he could not play since Jan 2. 

â€œIf we go to Friday and they open a case, it would be seven to 10 days before we get a decision, that would mean Plymouth, Swansea, and another two games â€“ eight games since Jan 2. *

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.te...gation-ongoing-joel-matip-saga-liverpool/amp/

Click to expand...

I think you're missing the point. Perhaps if Liverpool had spoken to FIFA a lot earlier then it would have been resolved by now.

I go on holiday in the Summer but I won't leave it until May to apply for a passport.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I think you're missing the point. Perhaps if Liverpool had spoken to FIFA a lot earlier then it would have been resolved by now.

I go on holiday in the Summer but I won't leave it until May to apply for a passport.
		
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How can they speak any earlier than when the squads get announced ? The club won't know what Cameroons intentions are until they announced the squads. They know the players intentions , they know he hasn't played for Cameroon for 18 months and not been picked in that period so why would they need to speak to FIFA ? 

Once that is done then they can approach FIFA - remember Matip wasn't included in the 21 Squad - then Liverpool can seek clarification from FIFA and that's what they have been trying to do for weeks now .


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## freddielong (Jan 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How can they speak any earlier than when the squads get announced ? The club won't know what Cameroons intentions are until they announced the squads. They know the players intentions , they know he hasn't played for Cameroon for 18 months and not been picked in that period so why would they need to speak to FIFA ? 

Once that is done then they can approach FIFA - remember Matip wasn't included in the 21 Squad - then Liverpool can seek clarification from FIFA and that's what they have been trying to do for weeks now .
		
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But if a player doesn't want to be eligible that could have been sorted out at anytime before.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How can they speak any earlier than when the squads get announced ? The club won't know what Cameroons intentions are until they announced the squads. They know the players intentions , they know he hasn't played for Cameroon for 18 months and not been picked in that period so why would they need to speak to FIFA ? 

Once that is done then they can approach FIFA - remember Matip wasn't included in the 21 Squad - then Liverpool can seek clarification from FIFA and that's what they have been trying to do for weeks now .
		
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As much as he hadn't played for them he was still being selected by them, and after 4 hours sitting in a hospital at appointment searching for facts rather than smoke and internet rumours, Liverpool believed he had retired when you signed him, but in October he did leave the door open for Cameroon to select him for the ANC with thst interview, Lpool are blameless in this but Matip isn't, he could've simply retired properly and left Cameroon in no doubt he was finished for them, 90% Cameroon, 10% Matip to blame for me.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 17, 2017)

Irrespective of where the blame lies it does leave Klopp a nasty dilemma. Does he risk it and play him unsure of what action if any Fifa take or does he simply tow the line and leave a good player out when he's fit and ready to play. The issue I guess, if they try and impose a points deduction what does it do for the PL challenge that is still going well and should Chelsea have a couple of slips will be very close


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## Stuart_C (Jan 17, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			As much as he hadn't played for them he was still being selected by them, and after 4 hours sitting in a hospital at appointment searching for facts rather than smoke and internet rumours, Liverpool believed he had retired when you signed him, but in October he did leave the door open for Cameroon to select him for the ANC with thst interview, Lpool are blameless in this but Matip isn't, he could've simply retired properly and left Cameroon in no doubt he was finished for them, 90% Cameroon, 10% Matip to blame for me.
		
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I've not read the whole discussion re Matip but seeing as he wasn't named in the Cameroon squad surely thats the end of it? No?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I've not read the whole discussion re Matip but seeing as he wasn't named in the Cameroon squad surely thats the end of it? No?
		
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He was selected for the initial squad when he didn't turn up he was not selected for the final 21, Cameroon are saying he should've reported, and as he was named and fit, then the FIFA rules back Cameroon, I believe from what I've read the disagreement is whether he is/was retired and shouldn't if even been named in the 30 man squad.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 17, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			He was selected for the initial squad when he didn't turn up he was not selected for the final 21, Cameroon are saying he should've reported, and as he was named and fit, then the FIFA rules back Cameroon, I believe from what I've read the disagreement is whether he is/was retired and shouldn't if even been named in the 30 man squad.
		
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He wasn't fit though was he? He missed a few games for us in December. 

Regardless, FIFA don't rush anything. We're dealing with an untouchable, unregulated and corrupt organisation. 

I'd be more than happy for Klopp to play him tomorrow, it'll force FIFA's hand somewhat. If the worst case scenario happens then we get thrown out of the FA Cup and that will have to be sorted quickly due to 4th round Next Week.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			He wasn't fit though was he? He missed a few games for us in December. 

Regardless, FIFA don't rush anything. We're dealing with an untouchable, unregulated and corrupt organisation. 

I'd be more than happy for Klopp to play him tomorrow, it'll force FIFA's hand somewhat. If the worst case scenario happens then we get thrown out of the FA Cup and that will have to be sorted quickly due to 4th round Next Week.
		
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Don't know tbh mate, just see it as a shambles.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 17, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Don't know tbh mate, just see it as a shambles.
		
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Are you surprised with FIFA involved?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2017)

Unfortunately at the moment it's LPool who have involved FIFA as Cameroon won't give LPool any assurances they won't complain.

I do believe our spineless FA should be acting on your behalf.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 17, 2017)

This is Matip we're talking about right?
He's a bang average player,it's not like Liverpools whole season rests on him playing or not.


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## davemc1 (Jan 17, 2017)

Wonder if homers gonna get the hump about Lincoln setting off flares and having a pitch invasion...


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 17, 2017)

Slime said:



			Maybe I'm not very good at irony!
The referee, in my unbiased opinion, favoured United .................... there, I've said it.
But isn't it generally the norm that the home side benefits from this?
It shouldn't be, but it is.
There will always be exceptions to the rule but, having watched United for decades, I find that they generally benefit from wrong decisions at Old Trafford, but this isn't necessarilly the case when playing away.
Oh, and don't forget, like most supporters, I do find it difficult to be impartial when discussing my own team :thup:.
		
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Can you take your bloody fair-mindedness elsewhere - not wanted on this thread.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 17, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Exactly right. 

Dear FIFA as we all know the ACN is coming up in a few months time and I have a question about one of our players.......we obviously want to get this sorted now so we all know where we stand should Mr Matip get selected...please let us know soonest as we will all look a bit silly come January otherwise.......many Thanks.

Its not that difficult.

Click to expand...

Rumour has it that Liverpool wrote it on ordinary A4 white paper, and not on Â£50 notes, which is why they are still awaiting an answer.


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## Slime (Jan 18, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Can you take your bloody fair-mindedness elsewhere - not wanted on this thread.

Click to expand...


Sorry Pete, I'll put my United tinted glasses back on now :thup:.


We was robbed on Sunday, bloody well robbed!!!


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 18, 2017)

Slime said:



			Sorry Pete, I'll put my United tinted glasses back on now :thup:.


We was robbed on Sunday, bloody well robbed!!!
		
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Better.

Welcome back to the fray.:thup:


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 18, 2017)

Not brilliant, but in the next round in the cup, which is all you want.

Gotta say, how did the ref miss the shirt pull for our first goal.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 18, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Not brilliant, but in the next round in the cup, which is all you want.

Gotta say, how did the ref miss the shirt pull for our first goal.
		
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Got to be in it to win it. Banana skin avoided and onwards towards Wembley


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## richart (Jan 18, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Not brilliant, but in the next round in the cup, which is all you want.

Gotta say, how did the ref miss the shirt pull for our first goal.
		
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 Did you score a phantom goal ?


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## Papas1982 (Jan 20, 2017)

Fonte to West Ham.

i try to defend most of our sales as usually it's a youngster going to a massive club. But what the hell? After all his talk of ambition it's clearly for Â£Â£Â£Â£!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 20, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Fonte to West Ham.

i try to defend most of our sales as usually it's a youngster going to a massive club. But what the hell? After all his talk of ambition it's clearly for Â£Â£Â£Â£!
		
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Well it's either that or lose him for nothing in the summer


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## Papas1982 (Jan 20, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well it's either that or lose him for nothing in the summer
		
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Id have happily seen him go to Utd as was rumoured. He'd have gone with my blessing, but he's been all over instagram with his love for the club blah blah blah. Then refuses to sign a deal. So it's obviosuly about money and not ambition. We aren't having a great season, but neither are West Ham. He's secured his final pay check and good luck to him, but he won't be welcomed back now by many (not that he'll care).


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## sawtooth (Jan 20, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Fonte to West Ham.

i try to defend most of our sales as usually it's a youngster going to a massive club. But what the hell? After all his talk of ambition it's clearly for Â£Â£Â£Â£!
		
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Its almost always about the money.

Costa was leaving Chelsea for China last week. Then the Chinese transfer rules changed and the deal fell through. Guess what?  he loves Chelsea again. 

Sanchez and Ozil are also probably considering big money moves away from Arsenal hence delay in signing new contracts. 

Payet as well at West Ham.

Greed, it's the scourge of modern football.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 20, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Its almost always about the money.

Costa was leaving Chelsea for China last week. Then the Chinese transfer rules changed and the deal fell through. Guess what?  he loves Chelsea again. 

Sanchez and Ozil are also probably considering big money moves away from Arsenal hence delay in signing new contracts. 

Payet as well at West Ham.

Greed, it's the scourge of modern football.
		
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I agree it plays a massive part. 

As a lesser club im used to players leaving. Some disappoint and some can be understood. Some (like this) leave a bitter taste.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 20, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Its almost always about the money.

Costa was leaving Chelsea for China last week. Then the Chinese transfer rules changed and the deal fell through. Guess what?  he loves Chelsea again. 

Sanchez and Ozil are also probably considering big money moves away from Arsenal hence delay in signing new contracts. 

Payet as well at West Ham.

Greed, it's the scourge of modern football.
		
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Do you not consider another reason why Sanchez and Ozil could be looking to move on ?

Costa wasn't actually leaving but had been approached and don't expect any deal was actually happening 

Payet isn't looking to leave West Ham for money - just wants to go back to Marseille


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## Papas1982 (Jan 20, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you not consider another reason why Sanchez and Ozil could be looking to move on ?

Costa wasn't actually leaving but had been approached and don't expect any deal was actually happening 

Payet isn't looking to leave West Ham for money - just wants to go back to Marseille
		
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I reckon if Barca or Utd made an offer Payet may change his mind. 
He's still going about it the wrong way, as did Costa. 

Ozil and Sanchez have both been at the top level (Barca and Madrid) and found themselves surplus. I reckon if Arsenal look remotely like winning something and get offered the right new contract, they'd be happy to stay and stay in the safe Arsenal bubble.


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## Fish (Jan 20, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Its almost always about the money.

Costa was leaving Chelsea for China last week. Then the Chinese transfer rules changed and the deal fell through. Guess what?  he loves Chelsea again. 

Sanchez and Ozil are also probably considering big money moves away from Arsenal hence delay in signing new contracts. 

Payet as well at West Ham.

Greed, it's the scourge of modern football.
		
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God you make some crap up, there was no deal to fall through so any change in Chinese rules meant nothing! There's a huge difference between an unauthorised announcement of wanting a player for a certain amount of money and actual approved talks taking place, do you know the difference or do you only read the Metro garbage.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 20, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Its almost always about the money.

Costa was leaving Chelsea for China last week. Then the Chinese transfer rules changed and the deal fell through. Guess what?  he loves Chelsea again. 

Sanchez and Ozil are also probably considering big money moves away from Arsenal hence delay in signing new contracts. 

Payet as well at West Ham.

Greed, it's the scourge of modern football.
		
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Costa yes but all the others no.

Sanchez wants to play with better players for the chance to win trophies and I believe Ozil wanted assurances on Wengers future.

Payet also wants to play in a better team wether that brings a transfer and more money only time will tell.


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## sawtooth (Jan 20, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Costa yes but all the others no.

Sanchez wants to play with better players for the chance to win trophies and I believe Ozil wanted assurances on Wengers future.

Payet also wants to play in a better team wether that brings a transfer and more money only time will tell.
		
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Oh that old chestnut, I want to leave to win things ( although I haven't heard Sanchez say that) . 

Each to their own but I never fall that balloney.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 20, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Oh that old chestnut, I want to leave to win things ( although I haven't heard Sanchez say that) . 

Each to their own but I never fall that balloney.
		
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Yet the players that have left Arsenal have gone on to win the big trophies 

Unless you can think of a player who left for more and not winning trophies ? Just look at the players that have left Arsenal and the trophies they have won 

You don't want to fall for it because the reality may make you realise that Arsenal will always struggle to keep their top players unless they start to actually win the leagues and challenge in the CL. That's no different to any club with top players - it's why we have lost players and why we will lose players like Coutinho. You keep going on about money because it gives you a excuse that you believe it's valid - it's not. If players are going to clubs that are winning leagues and getting to the latter stages of the CL then they are leaving to win things - if they go to China etc then it's for the money


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## Papas1982 (Jan 20, 2017)

Fish said:



			God you make some crap up, there was no deal to fall through so any change in Chinese rules meant nothing! There's a huge difference between an unauthorised announcement of wanting a player for a certain amount of money and actual approved talks taking place, do you know the difference or do you only read the Metro garbage.
		
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You must have felt there was a likelihood of it happening though surely. 

You were all ready for him to leave as long as the money was spent well.....


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## sawtooth (Jan 20, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yet the players that have left Arsenal have gone on to win the big trophies 

Unless you can think of a player who left for more and not winning trophies ? Just look at the players that have left Arsenal and the trophies they have won 

You don't want to fall for it because the reality may make you realise that Arsenal will always struggle to keep their top players unless they start to actually win the leagues and challenge in the CL. That's no different to any club with top players - it's why we have lost players and why we will lose players like Coutinho. You keep going on about money because it gives you a excuse that you believe it's valid - it's not. If players are going to clubs that are winning leagues and getting to the latter stages of the CL then they are leaving to win things - if they go to China etc then it's for the money
		
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Can you think of a player that left Arsenal for less money to pursue silverware elsewhere?

I rest my case.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 20, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Can you think of a player that left Arsenal for less money to pursue silverware elsewhere?

I rest my case.
		
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Players very rarely leave a club with a pay drop - that doesn't automatically mean someone is leaving because of money

Players that have left Arsenal and gone onto to win major trophies after winning nothing at Arsenal 

Fabregas
Van Persie
Nasri
Clichy 
Sagna 
Hleb 

They have all gone on to win league titles and/or CL - something they weren't getting at Arsenal - or was it just a coincidence that they joined clubs that were winning titles 

Expect to add the name of Ozil and Sanchez to be added to that list 

Your "case" has major flaws


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## sawtooth (Jan 20, 2017)

Fish said:



			God you make some crap up, there was no deal to fall through so any change in Chinese rules meant nothing! There's a huge difference between an unauthorised announcement of wanting a player for a certain amount of money and actual approved talks taking place, do you know the difference or do you only read the Metro garbage.
		
Click to expand...

Haha that's embarrassing. I suppose you expect us to believe Costa had a bad back last week. 

You were already spending the transfer fee! And you say that I talk rubbish &#128512;&#128512;

Your post is the biggest joke that I have read for quite sometime.


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## sawtooth (Jan 20, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Players very rarely leave a club with a pay drop - that doesn't automatically mean someone is leaving because of money

Players that have left Arsenal and gone onto to win major trophies after winning nothing at Arsenal 

Fabregas
Van Persie
Nasri
Clichy 
Sagna 
Hleb 

They have all gone on to win league titles and/or CL - something they weren't getting at Arsenal - or was it just a coincidence that they joined clubs that were winning titles 

Expect to add the name of Ozil and Sanchez to be added to that list 

Your "case" has major flaws
		
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All left for more money.

Who took a pay cut to leave Arsenal and win stuff at other clubs?


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## pokerjoke (Jan 20, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Can you think of a player that left Arsenal for less money to pursue silverware elsewhere?

I rest my case.
		
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Googles good.

Since Arsenal last won silverware 23 ex players have won 56 trophies.

Millionaires don't need more money Sean they want recognition for achievements.

You hardly hear of any player leaving a club for less money unless hes fallen out of favour and needs a move or he hates it at the club he just wants out.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 20, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Players very rarely leave a club with a pay drop - that doesn't automatically mean someone is leaving because of money

Players that have left Arsenal and gone onto to win major trophies after winning nothing at Arsenal 

Fabregas
Van Persie
Nasri
Clichy 
Sagna 
Hleb 

They have all gone on to win league titles and/or CL - something they weren't getting at Arsenal - or was it just a coincidence that they joined clubs that were winning titles 

Expect to add the name of Ozil and Sanchez to be added to that list 

Your "case" has major flaws
		
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But surely this is something you can levy at many clubs, not just Arsenal.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 20, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			All left for more money.

Who took a pay cut to leave Arsenal and win stuff at other clubs?
		
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I don't know the wage packets of each player because that's not on their record page - what is though is their titles and medals they won with the clubs they left Arsenal for 

So as I said - when players move clubs at the prime of their career they normally get a pay rise - that doesn't automatically mean they are only leave because of the money on offer 

So simple question - did they only leave Arsenal because of money ? Yes or no


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## sawtooth (Jan 20, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But surely this is something you can levy at many clubs, not just Arsenal.
		
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Leave Phil and Tony to it Homer. 

They prove my point beautifully. 

The common denominator in that list of players is money.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 20, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Millionaires don't need more money Sean they want recognition for achievements.

t.
		
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Yep that's exactly why Oscar,Tevez & co are currently in China&#129300;
And also why Falcou,Cavarni & Ibra opted to ply their trade in the mighty French League &#128580;.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 20, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Leave Phil and Tony to it Homer. 

They prove my point beautifully. 

The common denominator in that list of players is money.
		
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Not the 56 trophies?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 20, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Leave Phil and Tony to it Homer. 

They prove my point beautifully. 

The common denominator in that list of players is money.
		
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Don't forget the other common denominator for them - medals won 

So simple question - Did they only leave because of money ?


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## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But surely this is something you can levy at many clubs, not just Arsenal.
		
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Dont think so Homer, think the point is they left Arsenal to win trophies. The only team that comes close to that would be Liverpool. Alla Suarez unless you count league cups, which no one classes as a proper trophy unless you haven't won owt for years.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 20, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yep that's exactly why Oscar,Tevez & co are currently in China&#129300;
And also why Falcou,Cavarni & Ibra opted to ply their trade in the mighty French League &#128580;.
		
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As with all walks of life you get the greedy people who love money.

I believe all the players you mention have major trophies and to be fair apart from Cavani they have all had a crack at the P/L.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 20, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Dont think so Homer, think the point is they left Arsenal to win trophies. The only team that comes close to that would be Liverpool. Alla Suarez unless you count league cups, which no one classes as a proper trophy unless you haven't won owt for years.
		
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We have lost a lot of players over the last decade because we weren't winning trophies 

Suarez
Torres
Sterling
Mascherano
Arbeloa
Alonso
Yossi 

They all got more money at their new club but that's not why they left


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 20, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don't know the wage packets of each player because that's not on their record page - what is though is their titles and medals they won with the clubs they left Arsenal for 

So as I said - when players move clubs at the prime of their career they normally get a pay rise - that doesn't automatically mean they are only leave because of the money on offer 

So simple question - did they only leave Arsenal because of money ? Yes or no
		
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Out of the players you listed I'd say 
Sagna-definitely left for money & couldn't believe his luck. 

Fabregas-Barca came knocking,obviously he's going. 

Hleb- see above. 

Nasri- would probably sell his own grandmother for a few extra Â£. 

We're at a point now where most players are more motivated by money rather than success.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 20, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			We have lost a lot of players over the last decade because we weren't winning trophies 

Suarez
Torres
Sterling
Mascherano
Arbeloa
Alonso
Yossi 

They all got more money at their new club but that's not why they left
		
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How do you know?


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## pokerjoke (Jan 20, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Dont think so Homer, think the point is they left Arsenal to win trophies. The only team that comes close to that would be Liverpool. Alla Suarez unless you count league cups, which no one classes as a proper trophy unless you haven't won owt for years.
		
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Exactly Ozil and Sanchez will leave Arsenal unless Wenger stays regarding Ozil and buys quality regarding Sanchez.

If they get the rises they are looking for well they can expect to win very little for the remainder of their careers.


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## sawtooth (Jan 20, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Don't forget the other common denominator for them - medals won 

So simple question - Did they only leave because of money ?
		
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Yes and if you think Costa wants to leave Chelsea to win the Chinese super league I don't believe that also.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 20, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yes and if you think Costa wants to leave Chelsea to win the Chinese super league I don't believe that also.
		
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Costa will leave for money - already said that people going to China are doing it for the money

But players leaving to go to clubs like Barcelona and Man Utd arent doing it just for the money - also for the titles and medals playing for those clubs brings. 

I thought you actually understand football but to suggest anyone who leaves Arsenal for a club that wins is only doing it for the money is utterly clueless.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 20, 2017)

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38700017

Seeing we had such a fuss about Matip the other day and FIFA have come through for LPool, I thought I'd post this so Red noses can publicly thank FIFA


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## sawtooth (Jan 20, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Costa will leave for money - already said that people going to China are doing it for the money

But players leaving to go to clubs like Barcelona and Man Utd are doing it just for the money - also for the titles and medals playing for those clubs brings. 

I thought you actually understand football but to suggest anyone who leaves Arsenal for a club that wins is only doing it for the money is utterly clueless.
		
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Fabregas went back home so not all about the money for him.

Adebayor, Flamini. Song, Sagna, Nasri, Cole, Van Persie 

All went for more money, call me clueless if you want but that's how I see it.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 20, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Fabregas went back home so not all about the money for him.

Adebayor, Flamini. Song, Sagna, Nasri, Cole, Van Persie 

All went for more money, call me clueless if you want but that's how I see it.
		
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Ill give you four. 

Song was hardly valued by you til he left, cole and van Persia left to win. The fact fergie said he paid the silly price just to win shows the different perspective of fergie and Wenger.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 21, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Fabregas went back home so not all about the money for him.

Adebayor, Flamini. Song, Sagna, Nasri, Cole, Van Persie 

All went for more money, call me clueless if you want but that's how I see it.
		
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Ok, lets say for a minute that they have left for the money only.......

A. Do you think Arsenal's wage structure is archaic for a regular CL club, who often finish in the top 2/3/4.

or

B. Someone is taking far too much money out of Arsenal.

C. Wenger needs to start paying top wages, if he has any ambition for the club.

I'm expecting a D.


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## sawtooth (Jan 21, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ok, lets say for a minute that they have left for the money only.......

A. Do you think Arsenal's wage structure is archaic for a regular CL club, who often finish in the top 2/3/4.

or

B. Someone is taking far too much money out of Arsenal.

C. Wenger needs to start paying top wages, if he has any ambition for the club.

I'm expecting a D.
		
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D) Arsenal pay footballers very well but they act responsibly and are protective over the clubs future. Theres a pay structure in place and spending has increased significantly on playing staff in recent years and will continue for years to come. But there is a limit and the club is not prepared to cross the line so to put the future of the club in jeopardy.

If for example Arsenal offer Sanchez Â£250K a week and he is offered Â£300K somewhere else then let him go. If that's archaic then so be it, it's not the sort of characters we would want at the club anyway. (not saying Sanchez is BTW) Infact with Arsenal acting that way it will help deter others who are obsessed and preoccupied with money from joining the club. We might miss out on a few really good players but so what, we'll survive.

Liverpool have spending limits too and you're doing OK at the minute. However, would you want Klopp to overstretch Liverpools finances to keep Coutinho and other stars even if that meant putting the club at risk? I'm not sure that you would.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 21, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			D) Arsenal pay footballers very well but they act responsibly and are protective over the clubs future. Theres a pay structure in place and spending has increased significantly on playing staff in recent years and will continue for years to come. But there is a limit and the club is not prepared to cross the line so to put the future of the club in jeopardy.

If for example Arsenal offer Sanchez Â£250K a week and he is offered Â£300K somewhere else then let him go. If that's archaic then so be it, it's not the sort of characters we would want at the club anyway. (not saying Sanchez is BTW) Infact with Arsenal acting that way it will help deter others who are obsessed and preoccupied with money from joining the club. We might miss out on a few really good players but so what, we'll survive.

Liverpool have spending limits too and you're doing OK at the minute. However, would you want Klopp to overstretch Liverpools finances to keep Coutinho and other stars even if that meant putting the club at risk? I'm not sure that you would.
		
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Arsenal make millions - one of the richest clubs in the world - they bring in millions in revenue every year. Someone is getting rich or the piggy bank is filling up 

Every year players become available at decent prices - but it's not just about not spending money , it's when money is spent it's not on the right player. Arsenal spent Â£35 mil on Xhaka in the summer and Chelsea spent less on Kante who is a far superior player ? Arsenal have spent the money just seems on players in the wrong area. Also hear that there is money to spend but Wenger won't. 

Money is always the convenient excuse for Arsenal ( Wenger Fans )


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## Fish (Jan 21, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			You must have felt there was a likelihood of it happening though surely. 

You were all ready for him to leave as long as the money was spent well.....
		
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Anything can happen these days as contracts are worthless. 

I'm of the stance as I stated that nobody is bigger than the club and if someone or anyone however instrumental they may or may not be wants to leave then get the right money and let them go because once that individual has openly displayed an interest in moving then it  can be destructive within the squad and dressing room and that needs stemming quickly imo. 



sawtooth said:



			Haha that's embarrassing. I suppose you expect us to believe Costa had a bad back last week. 

You were already spending the transfer fee! And you say that I talk rubbish &#128512;&#128512;

Your post is the biggest joke that I have read for quite sometime.
		
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See comments above, and further to that, you mentioned and stated 'the deal fell through only because of a change in Chinese rules', can you link me to when and where this deal took place, when the player and/or his agents sat down with the Chinese club and when he was given permission to do so by our club and when the club was officially approached?! 

Or was it just a gattling gun throw it out there sound bite by the Chinese press or club/s to cause unrest to targeted players across the world like throwing out a big fishing net to see how many bites and what they might catch?   

Players have short careers and most now once reaching the PL or being in it for a short time at a top club are millionaires, there will be those that are solely money orientated and there are those that will be satisfied with the excellent wages they receive but will want to succeed, they are professional sportsmen and want to win things, it's not unusual for a good player to be sold on after a few years for more money than he was purchased for and also for him to get better wages with that move, but if he was settled and competing for titles and trophies or even winning some I don't think they'd move as frequently as we've seen so many excellent players at Arsenal move after giving a good few years to the club only for them to witness them never pushing the boat out and building a team around them and be good enough to challenge, all they do is then lose those top players due to a lack of ambition and replace them one for one but still don't build around them, so it's like Groundhog Day, and that will never change as long as Wenger is at the helm.


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## sawtooth (Jan 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Arsenal make millions - one of the richest clubs in the world - they bring in millions in revenue every year. Someone is getting rich or the piggy bank is filling up 

Every year players become available at decent prices - but it's not just about not spending money , it's when money is spent it's not on the right player. Arsenal spent Â£35 mil on Xhaka in the summer and Chelsea spent less on Kante who is a far superior player ? Arsenal have spent the money just seems on players in the wrong area. Also hear that there is money to spend but Wenger won't. 

Money is always the convenient excuse for Arsenal ( Wenger Fans )
		
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Arsenal were interested in Kante but like so many times in the past the player snubs Arsenal and goes to Chelsea. They either pay more fee, salary, or both (agents included) because they frankly don't care a toss how much it costs Roman or they act more decisively (again because they don't need to worry about the consequences if it doesn't work out) Chelsea simply cut their losses and buy again until it does.

Granted that Xhaka looks a little of the pace in the PL but it's  his first year so unfair IMO to make comparisons until next season. 

But I concede that it's unlikely Xhaka will ever be as important to a team than Kante would be.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 21, 2017)

Chelsea, City, Man Utd all have genuine ambition to win trophies, clear as you like. Arsenal seen simply content to tick over as they are. I know where I'd go if I was a top player and it wouldn't be the Emirates.


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## sawtooth (Jan 21, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Chelsea, City, Man Utd all have genuine ambition to win trophies, clear as you like. Arsenal seen simply content to tick over as they are. I know where I'd go if I was a top player and it wouldn't be the Emirates.
		
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Ambition comes at a cost and as I have said numerous times before Arsenal will not pay out as much as the other 3 clubs.

So naturally players would prefer to choose one of those clubs over Arsenal.

The playing field is never level but hypothetically if it was and money and trappings etc were the same then players would probably go (for footballing reasons) to United, Arsenal, Chelsea and City in that order.

Geography will also skew things in favour of London clubs let's be honest.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 21, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Ambition comes at a cost and as I have said numerous times before Arsenal will not pay out as much as the other 3 clubs.

So naturally players would prefer to choose one of those clubs over Arsenal.

The playing field is never level but hypothetically if it was and money and trappings etc were the same then players would probably go (for footballing reasons) to United, Arsenal, Chelsea and City in that order.

Geography will also skew things in favour of London clubs let's be honest.
		
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If money wasn't an option then players would choose Utd and Liverpool first and foremost. As the others clubs would have no advantage over them (well Liverpool as Utd have the money) and they are still the biggest two clubs in England.


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## sawtooth (Jan 21, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			If money wasn't an option then players would choose Utd and Liverpool first and foremost. As the others clubs would have no advantage over them (well Liverpool as Utd have the money) and they are still the biggest two clubs in England.
		
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I was just repeating the clubs LT had in his post to be fair. He never mentioned Liverpool.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 21, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I was just repeating the clubs LT had in his post to be fair. He never mentioned Liverpool.
		
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Thats faor eniugh. Thought you'd maybe forgotten em.


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## freddielong (Jan 21, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			How do you know?
		
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Phil confuses thoughts with facts


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## Slime (Jan 21, 2017)

sawtooth said:



*Arsenal were interested in Kante but* *like so many times in the past the player snubs Arsenal and goes to Chelsea. They either pay more fee, salary, or both* (agents included) because they frankly don't care a toss how much it costs Roman or they act more decisively (again because they don't need to worry about the consequences if it doesn't work out) Chelsea simply cut their losses and buy again until it does
		
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................ and possibly the chance of winning stuff!!
Nobody can convince me that winning stuff is not a major consideration to the players who snub Arsenal.


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## Slime (Jan 21, 2017)

Ooooh ....................... just seen the score at Anfield, just a couple of minutes to go :lol:.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 21, 2017)

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## pokerjoke (Jan 21, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
		
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Lets credit Klopp now for his press conference praising Swansea and acting all gracefull[blah ha].

Sturridge has no future at Anfield just walks around doing sod all.

As I have said in the past the one reason[well there are lots] Liverpool wont win the league they cant beat the weak teams and its always been there problem.

Well done Swansea and Clement a very solid performance.


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## JCW (Jan 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Arsenal make millions - one of the richest clubs in the world - they bring in millions in revenue every year. Someone is getting rich or the piggy bank is filling up 

Every year players become available at decent prices - but it's not just about not spending money , it's when money is spent it's not on the right player. Arsenal spent Â£35 mil on Xhaka in the summer and Chelsea spent less on Kante who is a far superior player ? Arsenal have spent the money just seems on players in the wrong area. Also hear that there is money to spend but Wenger won't. 

Money is always the convenient excuse for Arsenal ( Wenger Fans )
		
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Jurgen Flop is a loser again, how many finals has he lost , 2nd best always and again today , paying whatever money to players  does not always work , Chelsea will now have to pay through the nose to keep costa , then it will be hazard , who next , if they want to go then go , like a black mailer , you think once you paid thats it , haha , big fool you , come on the swans swimming up the Mersey .................EYG


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 21, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Lets credit Klopp now for his press conference praising Swansea and acting all gracefull[blah ha].

Sturridge has no future at Anfield just walks around doing sod all.

As I have said in the past the one reason[well there are lots] Liverpool wont win the league they cant beat the weak teams and its always been there problem.

Well done Swansea and Clement a very solid performance.
		
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Shocking result for LPool this, :rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 21, 2017)

Klopps "Philosophy" seems to be working about as good as Peps in the Premier League:rofl:

Bring back Brenda :whoo: :whoo::whoo:


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## sawtooth (Jan 21, 2017)

Teams do have a chance against Liverpool as their defence is pretty weak it has to be said.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 21, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Shocking result for LPool this, :rofl:
		
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The boys will be a while they are working out their spin.

No good unless others take advantage so need a win at stoke and a draw at City or a Spurs win,really cant see a City win at all.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 21, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			The boys will be a while they are working out their spin.

No good unless others take advantage so need a win at stoke and a draw at City or a Spurs win,really cant see a City win at all.
		
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Apparently it doesn't really matter if they win anything under Klopp,they're just loving his enthusiasm & passion 
But as he actually improved the team? 

Spurs look well overpriced to me.


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## Fish (Jan 21, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			The boys will be a while they are working out their spin.

No good unless others take advantage so need a win at stoke and a draw at City or a Spurs win,really cant see a City win at all.
		
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Just back from the club and only just seen the result ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ oh how I'd love a City win later, then with an Arsenal draw L'pool drop to 4th with 3 teams on 45 and scrapping it out amongst themselves with us 10 points clear ðŸ˜ŽðŸ‘

Utd are sniffing whilst teams above drop silly points but I've said it for ages, Utd's goal difference could hamper them for a CL position come the end of the season. 

My Â£20 bet just grew some legs ðŸ˜œ


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## Fish (Jan 21, 2017)

Hmm, if a was a Utd fan I'd ease off the pish taking, your not going to put pressure on your noisy neighbours going 1 down to Stoke &#128540;


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## sawtooth (Jan 21, 2017)

Fish said:



			Hmm, if a was a Utd fan I'd ease off the pish taking, your not going to put pressure on your noisy neighbours going 1 down to Stoke &#128540;
		
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It's gone very quiet on here &#128512;


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## pokerjoke (Jan 21, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			It's gone very quiet on here &#128512;
		
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It will liven up now:whoo:


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## One Planer (Jan 21, 2017)

I'm off to kick the cat.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 21, 2017)

One Planer said:



			I'm off to kick the cat.
		
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&#128514; Just be happy for Rooney


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## anotherdouble (Jan 21, 2017)

One Planer said:



			I'm off to kick the cat.
		
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Why is it a Utd supporter


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## One Planer (Jan 21, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			&#128514; Just be happy for Rooney
		
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I'd rather boil his head


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## GreiginFife (Jan 21, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Why is it a Utd supporter
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure it has its reasons...


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## stokie_93 (Jan 21, 2017)

Brilliant goal and congrats to Rooney. 

if someone could explain where 5 minutes of injury time came from it'd be great.


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## sawtooth (Jan 21, 2017)

stokie_93 said:



			Brilliant goal and congrats to Rooney. 

if someone could explain where 5 minutes of injury time came from it'd be great.
		
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From what I heard they deserved a point and Stoke never scored a goal so fairs fair.

Some will say 2 points dropped for United but Stoke away never easy.


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## stokie_93 (Jan 21, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			From what I heard they deserved a point and Stoke never scored a goal so fairs fair.

Some will say 2 points dropped for United but Stoke away never easy.
		
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Oh yeah we far from deserved the win. 

Just frustrating when we showed so much fight in the game to be robbed when it shoulda finished.


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## One Planer (Jan 21, 2017)

stokie_93 said:



			Brilliant goal and congrats to Rooney. 

if someone could explain where 5 minutes of injury time came from it'd be great.
		
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Fergie time.


Well, he was in the stands


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## JCW (Jan 21, 2017)

Spurs are the side in form and playing really well and as a gunner it hurts me to say it but they win today and they be flying , I expect Chelsea and Arsenal to win tomorrow but after today results nothink is to be taken for granted , Chelsea next game is away to Liverpool then its Arsenal h, Burnley a , 3 tough games , if they are still 5 or 6 clear after that then no one is catching them .......................EYG


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 21, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Lets credit Klopp now for his press conference praising Swansea and acting all gracefull[blah ha].

Sturridge has no future at Anfield just walks around doing sod all.

As I have said in the past the one reason[well there are lots] Liverpool wont win the league they cant beat the weak teams and its always been there problem.

Well done Swansea and Clement a very solid performance.
		
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Just got home and have to say congrats to Swans they deserved to win.
Tactics spot on 
Subs spot on 
Finishing spot on.
Swansea fans were brilliant.

Liverpool can't break down a team that plays two banks of four with a holding player teams have worked this out.

But you should not concede 3 goals when you have 80% possession.

midfield is awful Can Wilanldem not good enough.

Sturridge good finisher but is a chicken with no head.

no plan B if pressing game can't work because teams sit back in their shape there is no alternative 

this is is why they struggle against lower sides as the big teams come out and play and give us room .


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 21, 2017)

Today is why Liverpool won't win the league. They drop too many silly points against those from the lower end of the table. You have to be winning these games especially at home. I have no idea what Sturridge offers and how he gets a game

Well done to Rooney for breaking the record and not a bad way of getting it done.

Looking forward to this City v Spurs game catching fire. There has to be goals in this and Pep and City definitely need a win to keep touch with their rivals


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## sawtooth (Jan 21, 2017)

JCW said:



			Spurs are the side in form and playing really well and as a gunner it hurts me to say it but they win today and they be flying , I expect Chelsea and Arsenal to win tomorrow but after today results nothink is to be taken for granted , Chelsea next game is away to Liverpool then its Arsenal h, Burnley a , 3 tough games , if they are still 5 or 6 clear after that then no one is catching them .......................EYG
		
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Arsenal v Watford not Burnley. That match is tomorrow.

Looking forward to the Liverpool v Chelsea match already. Klopp will be looking for a reaction so they will be really up for it.


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## JCW (Jan 21, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Arsenal v Watford not Burnley. That match is tomorrow.

Looking forward to the Liverpool v Chelsea match already. Klopp will be looking for a reaction so they will be really up for it.
		
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Chelsea next 3 games are Liverpool a ,  Arsenal h , and Burnley a 

Arsenal got Burnley h, Watford h and Chelsea away , 3 wins for us be good ...................EYG


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## JCW (Jan 21, 2017)

Watching Man City V Spurs , how city are not 3 or 4 up at 1/2 time , spurs could sneak it later ..................spurs of old , but man city have stop the spurs full backs , its knocked spurs off line so to speak , .......................EYG


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 21, 2017)

JCW said:



			Chelsea next 3 games are Liverpool a ,  Arsenal h , and Burnley a 

Arsenal got Burnley h, Watford h and Chelsea away , 3 wins for us be good ...................EYG
		
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Chelsea's next game is Hull h. 

EYG.......


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## sawtooth (Jan 21, 2017)

JCW said:



			Spurs are the side in form and playing really well and as a gunner it hurts me to say
		
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That's what I call a kiss of death.&#128512; 

Game not over yet though.


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## sawtooth (Jan 21, 2017)

A game is never complete without a Sterling dive. Slightest contact and he goes over complaining and looking for a pen. Shocking unprofessionalism.


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## sawtooth (Jan 21, 2017)

The one time Sterling is entitled to go down and he doesn't. &#128512;


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## richy (Jan 21, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			A game is never complete without a Sterling dive. Slightest contact and he goes over complaining and looking for a pen. Shocking unprofessionalism.
		
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Stayed on his feet there though when he was clearly pushed.


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## jp5 (Jan 21, 2017)

And there is why players have to go down! Refs don't help themselves sometimes.


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## pendodave (Jan 21, 2017)

I've no dog in this fight, but the ref's had a shocker. Citeh have been robbed blind.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 21, 2017)

These Jesus puns could become very boring,very quickly &#128547;


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## sawtooth (Jan 21, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			These Jesus puns could become very boring,very quickly &#128547;
		
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Such as?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 21, 2017)

pendodave said:



			I've no dog in this fight, but the ref's had a shocker. Citeh have been robbed blind.
		
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Yep. Clear cut penalty irrespective of the player going down or not


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 21, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Such as?
		
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Jesus 1st touch almost an assist, 2nd touch almost a goal. 3rd almost scored again.

Almost turned the water in the bottles into wine too


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## Jensen (Jan 21, 2017)

They say it's a game of 2 halfs, and no one knows that better than Lloris. Magic 1st half, mere second half.
How penalty wasn't given is beyond me. But thankfully I'll take it.
Great point,but we really got outa jail.
Sorry Tashyboy &#128537;


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## sawtooth (Jan 21, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Jesus 1st touch almost an assist, 2nd touch almost a goal. 3rd almost scored again.

Almost turned the water in the bottles into wine too
		
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Pretty naff I agree.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 21, 2017)

Well without even playing, it's been a pretty good day for Chelsea 
:whoo:


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 21, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Pretty naff I agree.
		
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It's full of them on twitter.


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## sawtooth (Jan 21, 2017)

Jensen said:



			They say it's a game of 2 halfs, and no one knows that better than Lloris. Magic 1st half, mere second half.
How penalty wasn't given is beyond me. But thankfully I'll take it.
Great point,but we really got outa jail.
Sorry Tashyboy &#128537;
		
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A good point for Spurs in the end but trouble ahead with both centrebacks now out.


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## Jensen (Jan 21, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			A good point for Spurs in the end but trouble ahead with both centrebacks now out.
		
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Sadly yes, although we have strength in depth those 2 are irreplaceable


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## pokerjoke (Jan 21, 2017)

Gone very quiet from the usually full of themselves Liverpool supporters some embarrassing result today.

Slipping very slowly towards 6th and the Blues catching up,oh well still Arsenal to slag off I suppose.

Just banter boys don't throw your toys out your prams


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## Fish (Jan 21, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Well without even playing, it's been a pretty good day for Chelsea 
:whoo:
		
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Would have been better with a citeh win, bloody refs &#128545;


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## Stuart_C (Jan 21, 2017)

I never went today or saw the game but the result was disappointing.

The highlight for me, I had Firmino captain in my fantasy side.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I never went today or saw the game but the result was disappointing.
		
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Lmao such a nice response.


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## sawtooth (Jan 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I never went today or saw the game but the result was disappointing.
		
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That's football for you. 

Pick yourselves up, dust yourselves down and get out there and beat Chelsea next week. &#128537;


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## Stuart_C (Jan 21, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Lmao such a nice response.
		
Click to expand...

What do you want me to write? I've not seen the game or read anything about it so I can't post any opinion.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 21, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			That's football for you. 

Pick yourselves up, dust yourselves down and get out there and beat Chelsea next week. &#128537;
		
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We've got 2 big Mickey Mouse cup games before we can think about Chelsea.


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## Fish (Jan 21, 2017)

Well unless Arsenal commit suicide it's 1, 2, 3 for London clubs after tomorrow, but who's going to nip in and grab that 4th place if it was to stay like that, I think citeh &#128540;


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## pokerjoke (Jan 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			What do you want me to write? I've not seen the game or read anything about it so I can't post any opinion.
		
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Brilliant the game is 6 hours old and you expect me to believe that.

I bet all your mates have txt you the whole gory details


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			What do you want me to write? I've not seen the game or read anything about it so I can't post any opinion.
		
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:thup:


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## sawtooth (Jan 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			What do you want me to write? I've not seen the game or read anything about it so I can't post any opinion.
		
Click to expand...

That's never stopped LP. &#128512;


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## freddielong (Jan 21, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			That's never stopped LP. &#128512;
		
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He will give us his opinion once he's had time to read the star and check google


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## Stuart_C (Jan 21, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Brilliant the game is 6 hours old and you expect me to believe that.

I bet all your mates have txt you the whole gory details
		
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Are you calling me a liar?


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 21, 2017)

Fish said:



			Would have been better with a citeh win, bloody refs &#128545;
		
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Can't bee too greedy tho Fish &#128556;


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## freddielong (Jan 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Are you calling me a liar?
		
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Ha ha Brilliant


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## Stuart_C (Jan 21, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Ha ha Brilliant
		
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Whats your problem?


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## Fish (Jan 21, 2017)

Hmm, the night is young &#128540;


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## pbrown7582 (Jan 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			We've got 2 big Mickey Mouse cup games before we can think about Chelsea.
		
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Never mind them better losing in the semi than going to Wembley to get beat


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## Stuart_C (Jan 21, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			Never mind them better losing in the semi than going to Wembley to get beat 

Click to expand...

We'd beat hull at Wembley :ears:


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## freddielong (Jan 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Whats your problem?
		
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Ha ha even better.


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## NWJocko (Jan 21, 2017)

Just when i thought this thread couldn't get worse than LP's Arsenal obsession being regurgitated for about the thousandth time 

Poor result for Liverpool but Utd, City and Spurs all only getting a point each means it could have been worse for them.  

Haven't seen any games today, bad defending by Liverpool?  They seem to be pretty similar to the Rodgers team that went close to the title, scoring loads but poor at the back and prone to losing the odd game "they shouldn't on paper"?  Sure there'll be more to it but how it looks from the outside looking in.....

Good to see that Rooney hasn't delivered on his potential breaking 50 year old records for club and country, the English press do make me laugh


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Whats your problem?
		
Click to expand...




Stuart_C said:



			Are you calling me a liar?
		
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Nice to see you've taken your title hopes crumbling well &#128584;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## davemc1 (Jan 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Are you calling me a liar?
		
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R a, dont you 2 fall out. I thought use where gonna be bookie bashing buddies? :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Jan 21, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			R a, dont you 2 fall out. I thought use where gonna be bookie bashing buddies? :rofl:
		
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Haha yer pleb, turn it in.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 21, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			D) Arsenal pay footballers very well but they act responsibly and are protective over the clubs future. Theres a pay structure in place and spending has increased significantly on playing staff in recent years and will continue for years to come. But there is a limit and the club is not prepared to cross the line so to put the future of the club in jeopardy.

If for example Arsenal offer Sanchez Â£250K a week and he is offered Â£300K somewhere else then let him go. If that's archaic then so be it, it's not the sort of characters we would want at the club anyway. (not saying Sanchez is BTW) Infact with Arsenal acting that way it will help deter others who are obsessed and preoccupied with money from joining the club. We might miss out on a few really good players but so what, we'll survive.

Liverpool have spending limits too and you're doing OK at the minute. However, would you want Klopp to overstretch Liverpools finances to keep Coutinho and other stars even if that meant putting the club at risk? I'm not sure that you would.
		
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Some good points, I'll give you that.

However, I would expect our owners to give the manager 90% of the available cash reserves for squad/team strengthening, if desired. I would also expect the manager to use this money, if he feels he needs it. I think Arsenal and Arsend massively fail on these two points.

For fairness, I dont think our current owners are backing him and his predecessor enough. I also think Klopp is overestimating his ability to coach/develop our current crop, and he has to look to the transfer market to improve us defensively. Unless Karius impresses on his next run of games , we will need a keeper. We should have gone and got Van Dijk, and also need another 2-3 players to flesh out our squad, especially if we did get CL next season.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I never went today or saw the game but the result was disappointing.

The highlight for me, I had Firmino captain in my fantasy side.
		
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I'd just taken him out last night.

Apparently, if we dont type out our match reports on Liverpool defeats within an hour of the final whistle, we've somehow failed in our duty.

Maybe armchair fans dont realise that getting home from a 52 k sell out can take a bit of time, or we may go for a pint afterwards.......


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 21, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'd just taken him out last night.

Apparently, if we dont type out our match reports on Liverpool defeats within an hour of the final whistle, we've somehow failed in our duty.

Maybe armchair fans dont realise that getting home from a 52 k sell out can take a bit of time, or we may go for a pint afterwards.......
		
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Spot on Sinbad & maybe the armchair Liverpool fans forget their login details after a defeat &#128514;.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 21, 2017)

Well ave just got back from a stonking game at City. I was talking about the game all the way back from Manchester and singing the refs praises. How he had such a good game etc etc. Just watched Match of the day, and yup City have had another **** running around in Black pretending to be a referee. 
This year I have seen some of the worst referees performances I can remember. Complete and utter Rammel the lot of them.

On a positive Mr Gabriel Jesus looks special.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 21, 2017)

Congratulations to the scouser becoming man U's top overall scorer, just going past the ticket tout's record.:thup:


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 21, 2017)

And looks like Klopp wants you to make a bit more noise. 
Singing THAT song before kick off isn't cutting it &#128580;


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## sawtooth (Jan 21, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Some good points, I'll give you that.

However, I would expect our owners to give the manager 90% of the available cash reserves for squad/team strengthening, if desired. I would also expect the manager to use this money, if he feels he needs it. I think Arsenal and Arsend massively fail on these two points.

For fairness, I dont think our current owners are backing him and his predecessor enough. I also think Klopp is overestimating his ability to coach/develop our current crop, and he has to look to the transfer market to improve us defensively. Unless Karius impresses on his next run of games , we will need a keeper. We should have gone and got Van Dijk, and also need another 2-3 players to flesh out our squad, especially if we did get CL next season.
		
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I don't think anyone that knows the first thing about football can honestly say that Arsenal and Arsene are massively failing. 

Also we are spending more now than ever before and if that's still not enough for some players and agents then tough.  Chances are they're not the sort of characters we want associated with the club any way.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 21, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I don't think anyone that knows the first thing about football can honestly say that Arsenal and Arsene are massively failing. 

Also we are spending more now than ever before and if that's still not enough for some players and agents then tough.  Chances are they're not the sort of characters we want associated with the club any way.
		
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I meant massively failing in giving and/or using all their available financial  resources.:thup:


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## garyinderry (Jan 21, 2017)

Another sulk from Guardiola.   coining the phrase 'pepulance.'


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## Tashyboy (Jan 21, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Another sulk from Guardiola.   coining the phrase 'pepulance.'
		
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Yup you do tend to sulk when you get shafted week after week by the man in black.


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## Jensen (Jan 21, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Another sulk from Guardiola.   coining the phrase 'pepulance.'
		
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Understandable, given as I said earlier it was a stonewall penalty. We certainly got outa jail there


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## garyinderry (Jan 21, 2017)

He is still behaving like a man-child.   have a proper moan like an adult.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'd just taken him out last night.

Apparently, if we dont type out our match reports on Liverpool defeats within an hour of the final whistle, we've somehow failed in our duty.

Maybe armchair fans dont realise that getting home from a 52 k sell out can take a bit of time, or we may go for a pint afterwards.......
		
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Apologies Pete I should have been here after the match with my thoughts instead of taking my lovely pregnant wife to a 4d scan to confirm the sex of our baby - I'll ensure I get my priorities right to satisfy the small number of doorknobs who were clearly looking for ways to get a reaction.

I didn't watch the game so no idea what happened so will wait until I watch a replay sometime tomorrow


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Apologies Pete I should have been here after the match with my thoughts instead of taking my lovely pregnant wife to a 4d scan to confirm the sex of our baby - I'll ensure I get my priorities right to satisfy the small number of doorknobs who were clearly looking for ways to get a reaction.

I didn't watch the game so no idea what happened so will wait until I watch a replay sometime tomorrow
		
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We all look forward to your opinion Phil &#128077;&#127995;


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## Papas1982 (Jan 22, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I don't think anyone that knows the first thing about football can honestly say that Arsenal and Arsene are massively failing. 

Also we are spending more now than ever before and if that's still not enough for some players and agents then tough.  Chances are they're not the sort of characters we want associated with the club any way.
		
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What sort of characters are good enough for Arsenal then?

when you were winning things character was never mentioned, if it was that important would the likes of Merson or Adams would never of got a game. They're hardly players setting good examples. 

Or or maybe you mean dirty players like viera or pires one a nasty but excellent player, and one a constant diver?

or do you just mean a player that chooses a club without showing any loyalty? I guess good old Sol would fit that description?

if a player chooses a different club other Arsenal I'd suggest the character trait they are usually showing is ambition. Nothing more.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Apologies Pete I should have been here after the match with my thoughts instead of taking my lovely pregnant wife to a 4d scan to confirm the sex of our baby - I'll ensure I get my priorities right to satisfy the small number of doorknobs who were clearly looking for ways to get a reaction.

I didn't watch the game so no idea what happened so will wait until I watch a replay sometime tomorrow
		
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Shame on you Phil.

20 years ago, the husband would have put the wife on the bus, gone the pub, and maybe asked her how she got on 3 days later. 

We should know better, big clubs never get ignored.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 22, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Shame on you Phil.

20 years ago, the husband would have put the wife on the bus, gone the pub, and maybe asked her how she got on 3 days later. 

We should know better, big clubs never get ignored.

Click to expand...

Genuine question, does Liverpool have just the one bus company or two?  My mum used to always make us wait for the red buses (blue ones went funny routes)!

joing aside, do you think you need a striker? I know firminio got a double, but to me when the game was close and Swansea seemed happy for the draw, much like against us in cup. You seemed to lack someone in the box. Countless times you went down the wings and got crosses in, but let's be honest, coutinho and lallana aren't gonna win to many headers.

congrats btw Phil!


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## chrisd (Jan 22, 2017)

Was Alan Pardew the best manager in the PL.?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 22, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Well ave just got back from a stonking game at City. I was talking about the game all the way back from Manchester and singing the refs praises. How he had such a good game etc etc. Just watched Match of the day, and yup City have had another **** running around in Black pretending to be a referee. 
This year I have seen some of the worst referees performances I can remember. Complete and utter Rammel the lot of them.

On a positive Mr Gabriel Jesus looks special.
		
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First post on here since half time last sunday, really took your time to get over it :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 22, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'd just taken him out last night.

Apparently, if we dont type out our match reports on Liverpool defeats within an hour of the final whistle, we've somehow failed in our duty.

Maybe armchair fans dont realise that getting home from a 52 k sell out can take a bit of time, or we may go for a pint afterwards.......
		
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Goes both ways though, some of yous have no issues logging on and giving others stick within an hour of games finishing when their team loses :ears:

8 hours to get home, helluva pint or is that back to Devon and Scandinavia :whoo:


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## Paperboy (Jan 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Goes both ways though, some of yous have no issues logging on and giving others stick within an hour of games finishing when their team loses :ears:

8 hours to get home, helluva pint or is that back to Devon and Scandinavia :whoo:
		
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If I'd watch us play like that live I'd stayed out for more then a few :whoo:


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## richy (Jan 22, 2017)

chrisd said:



			Was Alan Pardew the best manager in the PL.?
		
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No he was the second worst.


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## richy (Jan 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Apologies Pete I should have been here after the match with my thoughts instead of taking my lovely pregnant wife to a 4d scan to confirm the sex of our baby
		
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:thup:
Congrats


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I didn't watch the game so no idea what happened so will wait until I watch a replay sometime tomorrow
		
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You've relied on social media and internet before to make comments, why the need to watch this one?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			You've relied on social media and internet before to make comments, why the need to watch this one?
		
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Maybe read the whole of my post to see why I don't really care and had imo more important things on my mind - I do apologies for not commenting though so that you could satisfy your clear obsession about what Liverpool fans think- I'll adjust my priorities for you

Everton won yesterday didnt they ? Yet you're more interested in the Liverpool match - must be a bit embarrassed. You are as bad as the Barnsley fan so can be treated the same - ignored


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## richy (Jan 22, 2017)

Some toys being thrown this morning. 

It's only banter between fans, jeez!!


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## sawtooth (Jan 22, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			What sort of characters are good enough for Arsenal then?

when you were winning things character was never mentioned, if it was that important would the likes of Merson or Adams would never of got a game. They're hardly players setting good examples. 

Or or maybe you mean dirty players like viera or pires one a nasty but excellent player, and one a constant diver?

or do you just mean a player that chooses a club without showing any loyalty? I guess good old Sol would fit that description?

if a player chooses a different club other Arsenal I'd suggest the character trait they are usually showing is ambition. Nothing more.
		
Click to expand...

I'm talking about players that force moves away for money, play one club off against the other for the biggest deal, down tools, etc. 

If that's what an incoming player is up to then it's probably best to walk away. Chances are they will be doing to your club a year or two later. 

I can't honestly remember a time where Wenger has signed someone under such circumstances. It's obviously important for a player to show desire to sign for you when money isn't the no.1 reason.

As you mentioned him, Campbell spent 10 years at Spurs. He is exactly the type of character you want at your club.

I don't see many people queuing up to buy Payet , maybe his antics have put a lot of suitors off. Wenger says that he thinks Payet is great player but doesn't have a need. Reading between the lines I don't think that he wants the baggage to be honest.

By the way this isn't all about Arsenal and Wenger , I think a lot of clubs and managers will think the same way.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe read the whole of my post to see why I don't really care and had imo more important things on my mind - I do apologies for not commenting though so that you could satisfy your clear obsession about what Liverpool fans think- I'll adjust my priorities for you

Everton won yesterday didnt they ? Yet you're more interested in the Liverpool match - must be a bit embarrassed. You are as bad as the Barnsley fan so can be treated the same - ignored
		
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Bet you'd have found the time if Arsenal had lost tho Phillip 

And from one armchair fan to another,congrats on your news :thup:


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## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2017)

I saw the highlights on MOTD, same old shocking defending for the goals. 

A nice bit of play for our 2nd goal though.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I'm talking about players that force moves away for money, play one club off against the other for the biggest deal, down tools, etc. 

If that's what an incoming player is up to then it's probably best to walk away. Chances are they will be doing to your club a year or two later. 

I can't honestly remember a time where Wenger has signed someone under such circumstances. It's obviously important for a player to show desire to sign for you when money isn't the no.1 reason.

As you mentioned him, Campbell spent 10 years at Spurs. He is exactly the type of character you want at your club.

I don't see many people queuing up to buy Payet , maybe his antics have put a lot of suitors off. Wenger says that he thinks Payet is great player but doesn't have a need. Reading between the lines I don't think that he wants the baggage to be honest.

By the way this isn't all about Arsenal and Wenger , I think a lot of clubs and managers will think the same way.
		
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The amount of players that "force" moves away for money doing tools are prob very slim

When Tevez downed tools it's because he wanted to go back to South America 

Payet wants to go back to France - he already got a load of money out of West Ham

Berahino is another who wanted to move to a club he thought was a step up 

How many can you think of forcing a move based purely on money ?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe read the whole of my post to see why I don't really care and had imo more important things on my mind - I do apologies for not commenting though so that you could satisfy your clear obsession about what Liverpool fans think- I'll adjust my priorities for you

Everton won yesterday didnt they ? Yet you're more interested in the Liverpool match - must be a bit embarrassed. You are as bad as the Barnsley fan so can be treated the same - ignored
		
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:thup: maybe if you didn't call people doorknobs they wouldn't react, banter goes both ways.
And as for priorities, you take time out to reply to me, but don't have the manners and good grace to thank people who offer you congratulations on the baby.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 22, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I'm talking about players that force moves away for money, play one club off against the other for the biggest deal, down tools, etc. 

If that's what an incoming player is up to then it's probably best to walk away. Chances are they will be doing to your club a year or two later. 

I can't honestly remember a time where Wenger has signed someone under such circumstances. It's obviously important for a player to show desire to sign for you when money isn't the no.1 reason.

As you mentioned him, Campbell spent 10 years at Spurs. He is exactly the type of character you want at your club.

I don't see many people queuing up to buy Payet , maybe his antics have put a lot of suitors off. Wenger says that he thinks Payet is great player but doesn't have a need. Reading between the lines I don't think that he wants the baggage to be honest.

By the way this isn't all about Arsenal and Wenger , I think a lot of clubs and managers will think the same way.
		
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Thats all valid points. But it's a little different from the original point. It started with you not wanting to pay the money. Now it's for player status only after money and trouble. 

I agree players like payet are trouble, but plenty have turned you down and I'm sure others may have offered more money, but it wasn't like they held you to ransom. Kante for one, he may have wanted 20k a week more than you wanted to pay. But long gone are the days when a player will choose Arsenal (or many others) for just the prestige and honour of paying for you. The players that do that are 16-20 and right ones you've been signing in that range haven't cut it. 

Your best two players have cost you Â£40m plus. That's what needs to be paid nowadays for game changers. Granted all clubs will do well with a few cheaper options. But imo, if you want to win then you have to spend. That or you want for your perfect storm (leciester).


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## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			:thup: maybe if you didn't call people doorknobs they wouldn't react, banter goes both ways.
*And as for priorities, you take time out to reply to me, but don't have the manners and good grace to thank people who offer you congratulations on the baby*.
		
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He can't see them, you're all on ignore :rofl:


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## Papas1982 (Jan 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The amount of players that "force" moves away for money doing tools are prob very slim

When Tevez downed tools it's because he wanted to go back to South America 

Payet wants to go back to France - he already got a load of money out of West Ham

Berahino is another who wanted to move to a club he thought was a step up 

How many can you think of forcing a move based purely on money ?
		
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Fonte &#128548;&#128548;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			He can't see them, you're all on ignore :rofl:
		
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Quality, he must only be able to see you Red noses and Arsenal fans now :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Fonte &#128548;&#128548;
		
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How much more is he on at West Ham ?


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## Tashyboy (Jan 22, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			He is still behaving like a man-child.   have a proper moan like an adult.
		
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Unfortunately, after the first ten games he was asked if he could go unbeaten all season. His memorable FFS response was typical Manc bless him. Some of the questions he has been asked by reporters have bordered on ludicrous, only matched by some of the refs we have had week after week. Once more, yesterday's fantastic game (for the neutral ) was overshadowed by that prat in black. I want to talk about de Bruynes mom performance, Jesus, and all the other highlights of a good game. But last night I went to bed asking why a linesman who flagged for a block on Aguero which resulted in a yellow ( which was not on MOTD) was the same linesman who did not see a push on Sterling which according to Shearer was a stonewall red and penalty.
 City have dished out some horrendous challenges this season, some of them Bourne out of frustration from dire referee performances and been rightly punished. But a bit of equality would not go a miss.
 City have had a bum deal with refs this year, which is why Sagna got his little fine last week for his " played v 12" Twitter remark a couple of weeks ago. It has got under Peps skin and the reporters know that. So what is the first question BBC ask him. Not his opinion on a fantastic game, but one on the penalty that was not that brought out the man child strop.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			First post on here since half time last sunday, really took your time to get over it :rofl:
		
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Sometimes you have gotta just bite your lip, otherwise it could mean an infraction when they have put in a performance like that. Thanks for reminding me am off on another pep strop now.&#128543;


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## Tashyboy (Jan 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Apologies Pete I should have been here after the match with my thoughts instead of taking my lovely pregnant wife to a 4d scan to confirm the sex of our baby - I'll ensure I get my priorities right to satisfy the small number of doorknobs who were clearly looking for ways to get a reaction.

I didn't watch the game so no idea what happened so will wait until I watch a replay sometime tomorrow
		
Click to expand...


Congrats on the little un/uns coming Phil, what is Missis LP carrying a Phil or Phillipa.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 22, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Unfortunately, after the first ten games he was asked if he could go unbeaten all season. His memorable FFS response was typical Manc bless him. Some of the questions he has been asked by reporters have bordered on ludicrous, only matched by some of the refs we have had week after week. Once more, yesterday's fantastic game (for the neutral ) was overshadowed by that prat in black. I want to talk about de Bruynes mom performance, Jesus, and all the other highlights of a good game. But last night I went to bed asking why a linesman who flagged for a block on Aguero which resulted in a yellow ( which was not on MOTD) was the same linesman who did not see a push on Sterling which according to Shearer was a stonewall red and penalty.
 City have dished out some horrendous challenges this season, some of them Bourne out of frustration from dire referee performances and been rightly punished. But a bit of equality would not go a miss.
 City have had a bum deal with refs this year, which is why Sagna got his little fine last week for his " played v 12" Twitter remark a couple of weeks ago. It has got under Peps skin and the reporters know that. So what is the first question BBC ask him. Not his opinion on a fantastic game, but one on the penalty that was not that brought out the man child strop.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair the reporter did say he only asked him this because when the cameras cut to Pep he was actually watching that incident on the monitor.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 22, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			To be fair the reporter did say he only asked him this because when the cameras cut to Pep he was actually watching that incident on the monitor.
		
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He was, good job it was on otherwise he didn't have a question to ask.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 22, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Congrats on the little un/uns coming Phil, what is Missis LP carrying a Phil or Phillipa.
		
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Got to be Thierry or Arsene if it's a boy.


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## freddielong (Jan 22, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Got to be Thierry or Arsene if it's a boy.
		
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Michael or Thomas are nice boys names.


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## sawtooth (Jan 22, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Thats all valid points. But it's a little different from the original point. It started with you not wanting to pay the money. Now it's for player status only after money and trouble. 

I agree players like payet are trouble, but plenty have turned you down and I'm sure others may have offered more money, *but it wasn't like they held you to ransom*. Kante for one, he may have wanted 20k a week more than you wanted to pay. But long gone are the days when a player will choose Arsenal (or many others) for just the prestige and honour of paying for you. The players that do that are 16-20 and right ones you've been signing in that range haven't cut it. 


Your best two players have cost you Â£40m plus. That's what needs to be paid nowadays for game chan<script id="gpt-impl-0.7035134781782679" src="https://securepubads.g.doubleclick.net/gpt/pubads_impl_108.js"></script>gers. Granted all clubs will do well with a few cheaper options. But imo, if you want to win then you have to spend. That or you want for your perfect storm (leciester).
		
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You don't know that anymore than I do. 

When Ozil joined Arsenal it wasn't all about the money. He could have went to PSG for more, instead joined Arsenal for footballing reasons ie personal development, wanting to work with Wenger etc.

Sanchez joined Arsenal instead of Liverpool. Again part of that was wanting to work under Wenger. 

I'd much rather be signing players under those conditions rather than to simply pay the most for someone. We probably could have entered a bidding war for Kante but I genuinely believe its not a path we want to go down. If the player doesn't want to come for what Arsenal believe is good money then stuff them. People keep saying that we have large wage bill so its not like we don't pay players well for their services, its just that some want to take the pish (as Fish would put it).


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## sawtooth (Jan 22, 2017)

Yes congratulations Phil on your new baby :cheers:


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## Fish (Jan 22, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Michael or Thomas are nice boys names.
		
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More like a Winston with all the golf he plays 

:smirk:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 22, 2017)

Arsenal playing some lovely football, but possibly over playing at times, if they get one soon I can see them getting two or three, if they don't the nerves are going to rise!


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## sawtooth (Jan 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Arsenal playing some lovely football, but possibly over playing at times, if they get one soon I can see them getting two or three, if they don't the nerves are going to rise!
		
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Thanks Paul you're a star!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 22, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Thanks Paul you're a star!
		
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Ha Ha, now for another couple


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## fundy (Jan 22, 2017)

Someone please explain how he cost more than 30m please lol.  

Idiotic attempt to make up for the fact he cant trap a bag of sand, oh joy now we get Coquelin instead


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## sawtooth (Jan 22, 2017)

fundy said:



			Someone please explain how he cost more than 30m please lol.  

Idiotic attempt to make up for the fact he cant trap a bag of sand, oh joy now we get Coquelin linstead
		
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I'm with you but will give him a season to settle. Still has a lot to prove.

No complaints , straight red all day long.


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## fundy (Jan 22, 2017)

Played 19 games, had 19 shots of which 3 have hit the target and 1 went in. 1 assist. 65% pass completion rate. Has tried to make 52 tackles in which hes received 2 reds and 2 yellows.

Thatll be 35m please lol


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## sawtooth (Jan 22, 2017)

It was one of those when player felt contact and went down. Cant blame the player and I would have been annoyed if it wasn't awarded for us tbf.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 22, 2017)

Wow,crazy finish. 
Got to feel for Burnley.


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## sawtooth (Jan 22, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Wow,crazy finish. 
Got to feel for Burnley.
		
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Why?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 22, 2017)

Xhaka needs a shoeing, Arsenal totally in control until his red card and then 2 controversial penalties, 

Burnley didn't look like scoring until the sending off.

Good fun for the nuetral :rofl:


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## sawtooth (Jan 22, 2017)

Pure class from Sanchez and on balance of play deserved the win.


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## jp5 (Jan 22, 2017)

Burnley will wonder how they've got nothing against us this season. Very lucky to win both matches!


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## Region3 (Jan 22, 2017)

Question for anyone that knows the rules:

The Arsenal guy was in an offside position when the ball was kicked, but before he had anything to do with play he moved back onside then went for the ball. Still offside?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 22, 2017)

Region3 said:



			Question for anyone that knows the rules:

The Arsenal guy was in an offside position when the ball was kicked, but before he had anything to do with play he moved back onside then went for the ball. Still offside?
		
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By the laws he was offside, Linesman's error.


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## anotherdouble (Jan 22, 2017)

Region3 said:



			Question for anyone that knows the rules:

The Arsenal guy was in an offside position when the ball was kicked, but before he had anything to do with play he moved back onside then went for the ball. Still offside?
		
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YES


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## anotherdouble (Jan 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			By the laws he was offside, Linesman's error.
		
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I don't understand how he got it so wrong. 10 yards away. Total clear vision and bang in line. Horrendous error. Should have a long rest and rest of the season being trained.


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## One Planer (Jan 22, 2017)

Lucky,lucky Arsenal.


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## sawtooth (Jan 22, 2017)

jp5 said:



			Burnley will wonder how they've got nothing against us this season. Very lucky to win both matches!
		
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Given the late goals I agree but by every stat in the book Arsenal deserved 6 points.


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## USER1999 (Jan 22, 2017)

Exiting stuff. I was getting bored until xakhas stupidity.


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## Slime (Jan 22, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Why?
		
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Because the Arsenal player was offside ................. not a penalty.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 22, 2017)

Very unlucky for Burnley. Thought got nothing tackles warranted pens. But Arsenals was offside so they got lucky. 

As to stats meaning Arsenal deserved to win. Rubbish. Of course you'd expect to have Orem possession and shots. But unless you score more you don't deserve anything. And in clear (fair chance) it should have been 1-1.


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## freddielong (Jan 22, 2017)

Slime said:



			Because the Arsenal player was offside ................. not a penalty.
		
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Oh well that's 1 back in our favour we are possibly only 15 - 1 down on decisions over the last couple of seasons now.

Anyone know what happened to Mason in the Hull Chelsea game seemed to be in a lot of pain and must of had 10 minutes of treatment.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 22, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Oh well that's 1 back in our favour we are possibly only 15 - 1 down on decisions over the last couple of seasons now.

Anyone know what happened to Mason in the Hull Chelsea game seemed to be in a lot of pain and must of had 10 minutes of treatment.
		
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Clash of heads with Cahill.


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## freddielong (Jan 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Clash of heads with Cahill.
		
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Hope he's ok seemed to be in a lot of pain, they put the stretcher down a couple of times.


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## Fish (Jan 22, 2017)

That's a yellow all day long on Pedro and as such a second yellow! Ref bottled it &#128545;


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## jp5 (Jan 22, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Oh well that's 1 back in our favour we are possibly only 15 - 1 down on decisions over the last couple of seasons now.
		
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Always unlucky Arsenal are... except when they are lucky.

Talking of bad decisions Chelsea must feel aggrieved not to be 1-up and against 10 men by half time!


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## Fish (Jan 22, 2017)

jp5 said:



			Always unlucky Arsenal are... except when they are lucky.

Talking of bad decisions Chelsea must feel aggrieved not to be 1-up and against 10 men by half time!
		
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Thank you sir &#128077;Costa &#128079;&#128079;


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## sawtooth (Jan 22, 2017)

jp5 said:



			Always unlucky Arsenal are... except when they are lucky.
		
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You sound so much like LP that it's scary. &#129300;


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## sawtooth (Jan 22, 2017)

Fish said:



			Thank you sir &#128077;Costa &#128079;&#128079;
		
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He's only there because he has to be. &#128513;


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## jp5 (Jan 22, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			You sound so much like LP that it's scary. &#129300;
		
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Have you ever seen us at the same time... 

But honestly I just call it as I see it - I would never let my support for a team get in the way of my objective opinion.

We get the same amount of luck as any other team, probably more than the lower teams. If anyone thinks we get more bad luck than good luck they need to examine their bias - likely they see the bad luck but not the good.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2017)

Fish said:



			More like a Winston with all the golf he plays 

:smirk:
		
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? I'm guessing there is a joke in there ?



Tashyboy said:



			Congrats on the little un/uns coming Phil, what is Missis LP carrying a Phil or Phillipa.
		
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Cheers Tashy , Sean Ricky and Papa 

And carrying a lovely little girl :whoo:

Can't wait


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## freddielong (Jan 22, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			You sound so much like LP that it's scary. &#129300;
		
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Its been said many times before


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 22, 2017)

Region3 said:



			Question for anyone that knows the rules:

The Arsenal guy was in an offside position when the ball was kicked, but before he had anything to do with play he moved back onside then went for the ball. Still offside?
		
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Offside when the ball was played so play should have ceased at that point, had the linesman done his job and so the foul for the penalty would have null and void


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## sawtooth (Jan 22, 2017)

I can't see Hull getting anything out of this. &#128537;&#128537;&#128537;&#128537;&#128537; They don't even look like scoring&#128532;&#128532;&#128532;

(It's been working all day)


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 22, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Offside when the ball was played so play should have ceased at that point, had the linesman done his job and so the foul for the penalty would have null and void
		
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:rofl: I thought you were a Ref? In an offside position when the ball was played but so was Sanchez, he should of raised his flag when he became active, ie the second movement. not when the ball was played, how can the linesman know were the cross was going to end up?


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## Fish (Jan 22, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I can't see Hull getting anything out of this. &#128537;&#128537;&#128537;&#128537;&#128537; They don't even look like scoring&#128532;&#128532;&#128532;

(It's been working all day)
		
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Oi, do one &#128070;

To be fair to them they've got in behind us a few too many times but lacked that last bit of quality, hence the double sub I think as we went flat and was allowing them onto us, but we should be playing 10 men!

There's no easy games when teams are fighting for their PL lives but I expected more from us after we got the goal as Hull can't sit back like they were for 43 minutes.


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## Fish (Jan 22, 2017)

&#128079;&#128079; lovely pinpoint cross, job done &#128077;


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			:rofl: I thought you were a Ref? In an offside position when the ball was played but so was Sanchez, he should of raised his flag when he became active, ie the second movement. not when the ball was played, how can the linesman know were the cross was going to end up?
		
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Either way it is still offside if the player was in an offside position when the ball is played. Returning to an onside position after it has been played alters nothing.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Xhaka needs a shoeing, Arsenal totally in control until his red card and then 2 controversial penalties, 

Burnley didn't look like scoring until the sending off.

Good fun for the nuetral :rofl:
		
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Why were the pens controversial?

They were also going on about it in the studio, as in looking for reasons why they shouldnt have been.......cos it was so late on?

Why, they were both cast iron penalties.

Surely Wenger should be getting a 3-5 game touchline ban, after pushing the 4th official.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 22, 2017)

Well the league table is looking pretty good after the weekends results 
:whoo: :whoo:


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 22, 2017)

Only seen the second half of the Chelsea game, but the ref getting the big decisions wrong.

Along with other big ones over the weekend and seemingly every week,referreeing in the prem is in peril. Needs sorting out.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 22, 2017)

Another great weekend for Mike Dean. 
Does he get demoted to a league 1 match now?


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## freddielong (Jan 22, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Another great weekend for Mike Dean. 
Does he get demoted to a league 1 match now?
		
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I would just like to point out that when I pointed out how bad he was I was initially laughed down.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Only seen the second half of the Chelsea game, but the ref getting the big decisions wrong.

Along with other big ones over the weekend and seemingly every week,referreeing in the prem is in peril. Needs sorting out.
		
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The sport is being ruined by their incompetence

The mistakes by the officials affect the results of matches and there must be a time for them to be held accountable for those mistakes - teams shouldn't be winning/losing because of a mistake by an official - other sports are trying their very best to ensure the impact of the official is minimal 

Big decisions they need held from the 4th official if the game has already been stopped.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 22, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Why were the pens controversial?

They were also going on about it in the studio, as in looking for reasons why they shouldnt have been.......cos it was so late on?

Why, they were both cast iron penalties.

Surely Wenger should be getting a 3-5 game touchline ban, after pushing the 4th official.
		
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Because both teams felt they shouldn't of been given, both managers said so, Are you saying the Arsenal one shouldn't of been given as offside?

Hopefully Wenger will be punished.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 22, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			Either way it is still offside if the player was in an offside position when the ball is played. Returning to an onside position after it has been played alters nothing.
		
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Only if the returning player becomes active, if Koscielny had played no part when the ball arrived in the box his position when the ball was crossed is irrelevant, it was only a definite penalty because he received the ball.


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## Fish (Jan 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Hopefully Wenger will be punished.
		
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Stone him, throw him to the gwound &#128540;


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## freddielong (Jan 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Because both teams felt they shouldn't of been given, both managers said so, Are you saying the Arsenal one shouldn't of been given as offside?

Hopefully Wenger will be punished.
		
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Hopefully it should show the morons who think he isn't interested in winning that they should get their opinions from better quality news sources.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 22, 2017)

Fish said:



			Stone him, throw him to the gwound &#128540;
		
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And that's just for his choice in coats. 
Why so long??


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## MegaSteve (Jan 22, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			And that's just for his choice in coats. 
Why so long??
		
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He doesn't want his old chap to catch a chill...


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 22, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			He doesn't want his old chap to catch a chill...
		
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&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 22, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Another great weekend for Mike Dean. 
Does he get demoted to a league 1 match now?
		
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So only a few more weeks before the conference and beyond. If only it were so


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 22, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Another great weekend for Mike Dean. 
Does he get demoted to a league 1 match now?
		
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What on earth have the League 1 teams done to deserve that?

I saw him ref us against Doncaster (I think) last year as it was an international weekend and there was no Premier League or Championship and he was awful. Probably the most incompetent refereeing performance I have ever seen. He managed to annoy both managers, both teams and both sets of fans. And this isn't coming from a position of sour grapes as we won the game 4-1. It wasn't the fact that he favoured one team or the other it was just that he got every big decision wrong.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 22, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			What on earth have the League 1 teams done to deserve that?

I saw him ref us against Doncaster (I think) last year as it was an international weekend and there was no Premier League or Championship and he was awful. Probably the most incompetent refereeing performance I have ever seen. He managed to annoy both managers, both teams and both sets of fans. And this isn't coming from a position of sour grapes as we won the game 4-1. It wasn't the fact that he favoured one team or the other it was just that he got every big decision wrong.
		
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He's just rubbish. Simple as. Shouldn't be on any panel let alone the PL one


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			What on earth have the League 1 teams done to deserve that?

I saw him ref us against Doncaster (I think) last year as it was an international weekend and there was no Premier League or Championship and he was awful. Probably the most incompetent refereeing performance I have ever seen. He managed to annoy both managers, both teams and both sets of fans. And this isn't coming from a position of sour grapes as we won the game 4-1. It wasn't the fact that he favoured one team or the other it was just that he got every big decision wrong.
		
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He is a shocking ref - he is just behind Mike Jones in replacing Rennie as the worst ref ever seen 

He has an arrogance about him that helps him mask shocking officiating - he is starting to believe his own Internet hype.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 22, 2017)

Ah say, yesterday when I sounded bitter and twisted about the state of refs in the prem league when City have played I was ridiculed yes ridiculed as being bitter and twisted. Which I was. But the state of refing in the prem league is in my view at an all time low.
if any forumers on here half a day spare, can they go through the last 644 pages and see how many posts are about refs. This blog was started for football not crap refs.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Because both teams felt they shouldn't of been given, both managers said so, Are you saying the Arsenal one shouldn't of been given as offside?

Hopefully Wenger will be punished.
		
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And thats your first mistake. Dont take a players/managers reaction to be a litmus test for if a decision is right.

Arsenal's one should have been given as offside first, but once it wasnt it was a foul, so a pen.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 22, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Hopefully it should show the morons who think he isn't interested in winning that they should get their opinions from better quality news sources.
		
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Maybe he does want to win, when push comes to shove.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			And thats your first mistake. Dont take a players/managers reaction to be a litmus test for if a decision is right.

Arsenal's one should have been given as offside first, but once it wasnt it was a foul, so a pen.
		
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I thought it was a harsh pen. Koscielny (sp?) has stooped to head it and Mee has stretched to win it, I think Mee was entitled to put a boot on it.

 Koscielny's reaction was poor, Mee's boot never touched his face.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Maybe he does want to win, when push comes to shove. 

Click to expand...

Imagine the outcry had it been Mourinho.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I thought it was a harsh pen. Koscielny (sp?) has stooped to head it and Mee has stretched to win it, I think Mee was entitled to put a boot on it.

 Koscielny's reaction was poor, Mee's boot never touched his face.
		
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Nar mate, he did dip slightly but only a foot or so. Mee's foot was still high and dangerous, and did make contact.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2017)

Frightening news if it's true 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mi...yan-mason-suffers-fractured-skull-9674938.amp

Hope it goes all ok


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## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Nar mate, he did dip slightly but only a foot or so. Mee's foot was still high and dangerous, and did make contact.
		
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Enough for him to go to ground holding his face?

I think it's unfair that player A can stoop to head the ball yet player B can't raise his foot. Not just today but across the game.

Not for me from the angle I saw it.  His reaction won that pen imo.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Enough for him to go to ground holding his face?

I think it's unfair that player A can stoop to head the ball yet player B can't raise his foot. Not just today but across the game.

Not for me from the angle I saw it.  His reaction won that pen imo.
		
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I cant remember if it did hit his face, but you are allowed to dip to win a header.

I know what you mean if someone heads it 3 foot off the ground, but this wasnt. 

It was a scorpion/scissor kick to the head.


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## freddielong (Jan 22, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Maybe he does want to win, when push comes to shove. 

Click to expand...

I see what you did there


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## Papas1982 (Jan 22, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			I cant remember if it did hit his face, but you are allowed o dip o win a header.

I know what you mean if someone heads it 3 foot off the ground, but this wasnt. 

It was a scorpion/scissor kick to the head. 

Click to expand...

I just don't get how a high foot by a defender is dangerous play, but if a striker does a bucycle kick his foot is higher and yet never called as a foul. 

My 2 cents is that both can easily be deemed a pens. Arsenals was the lucky one as officials missed the offside.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 22, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			And thats your first mistake. Dont take a players/managers reaction to be a litmus test for if a decision is right.

Arsenal's one should have been given as offside first, but once it wasnt it was a foul, so a pen.
		
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The managers interviews were afterwards, first look from my armchair the Burnley player went looking for the pen and dived over his leg, Arsenals was a pen all day at first look, Dyce was upset that it wasn't flagged for offside, but once again it takes freeze frame TV to prove it and we blame the linesman for missing it.


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## Hobbit (Jan 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Frightening news if it's true 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mi...yan-mason-suffers-fractured-skull-9674938.amp

Hope it goes all ok
		
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Also being broadcast by other media outlets now. Emergency neuro surgery for a bleed...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 22, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I just don't get how a high foot by a defender is dangerous play, but if a striker does a bucycle kick his foot is higher and yet never called as a foul. 

My 2 cents is that both can easily be deemed a pens. Arsenals was the lucky one as officials missed the offside.
		
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Didn't someone get penalised last season for a scissor kick as a defenders head was close, was it Norwich?


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 22, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Genuine question, does Liverpool have just the one bus company or two?  My mum used to always make us wait for the red buses (blue ones went funny routes)!

joing aside, do you think you need a striker? I know firminio got a double, but to me when the game was close and Swansea seemed happy for the draw, much like against us in cup. You seemed to lack someone in the box. Countless times you went down the wings and got crosses in, but let's be honest, coutinho and lallana aren't gonna win to many headers.

congrats btw Phil!
		
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What years you talking, when I was a lad they were green.

Firmino has done a great job when played centrally this season. Whereas he was great on the wing last year, when hes been put back out there this season, he hasnt been as effective.

I think its time to give up on Sturridge though. Origi is streaky, but recently has taken to running down blind alleys, or holding onto the ball too long.

Danny Ings - bad luck doesnt cut it for him.

Some rely on a central striker getting them 20 plus goals, but ours are spread round better, but a Suarez/Costa/Kane in our team at the mo, would be great. A goalscorer who can hold it up, as well as bring others into it also.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 22, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I just don't get how a high foot by a defender is dangerous play, but if a striker does a bucycle kick his foot is higher and yet never called as a foul. 

My 2 cents is that both can easily be deemed a pens. Arsenals was the lucky one as officials missed the offside.
		
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It is if he boots someone in the head or upper body.

I know what you mean about the strikers getting away with it at times, but the relevant point is if anyone else is touched or at least in the close vicinity.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 22, 2017)

Yep. Koscielny caught on the head.

Really hope the Hull player gets through it ok.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 22, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep. Koscielny caught on the head.

Really hope the Hull player gets through it ok.
		
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Hull just put out statement confirming fractured skull and out of surgery.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Hull just put out statement confirming fractured skull and out of surgery.
		
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Fingers crossed he has a full recovery.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 22, 2017)

Not good for the lad at hull. Hope he makes a full recovery


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 22, 2017)

The Club statement confirmed he's in a stable condition, so hopefully signs are good.


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## freddielong (Jan 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			The Club statement confirmed he's in a stable condition, so hopefully signs are good.
		
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Just heard that so hopefully good news, fingers crossed.


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## garyinderry (Jan 22, 2017)

Definite penalty for Burnley.  Got lucky there on the end. 


The standard of the top teams is poor again this year.  Chelsea definitely the pick of the bunch as they are tight enough at the back, good cover with kante and matic on front and buzzing options going forward with Costa the cherry on top.


Things change very quickly in football and there is plenty of games to come between the top teams.  We need Chelsea to have a shock defeat to really make it interesting.


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## sawtooth (Jan 23, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Definite penalty for Burnley.  Got lucky there on the end. 


The standard of the top teams is poor again this year.  Chelsea definitely the pick of the bunch as they are tight enough at the back, good cover with kante and matic on front and buzzing options going forward with Costa the cherry on top.


Things change very quickly in football and there is plenty of games to come between the top teams.  We need Chelsea to have a shock defeat to really make it interesting.
		
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Next up for Chelsea are Liverpool and Arsenal. It really isn't beyond the realms of possibility to lose both those games and then the gap at the top will only be 2.

Long way to go yet.


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## anotherdouble (Jan 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Next up for Chelsea are Liverpool and Arsenal. It really isn't beyond the realms of possibility to lose both those games and then the gap at the top will only be 2.

Long way to go yet.
		
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Or we could beat Arsenal. 11 points clear and it could be groundhog days all over again for a certain part of North London and roll on 2017-2018 league season


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## sawtooth (Jan 23, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Or we could beat Arsenal. 11 points clear and it could be groundhog days all over again for a certain part of North London and roll on 2017-2018 league season
		
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Chances are Liverpool and/or Arsenal will take some points of Chelsea between them.

And Spurs are not too far away too with probably the best run in from the lot of us.


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## Fish (Jan 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Chances are Liverpool and/or Arsenal will take some points of Chelsea between them.
		
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I think Cahill alluded to that in his after match interview stating that the 3 points against Hull were extremely important to maintain and have as good a buffer with a few tough games coming up.

There's no doubt that Chelsea _could_ drop some points over those tough games or even after, but by the same token Arsenal, Spurs and/or L'pool don't have it in them to go unbeaten the remainder of the season either!  It's one thing reducing a points gap when teams at the top play each other and another expecting the team at the top to lose to much lesser positioned clubs whilst those in the hunt go unbeaten!


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## Jensen (Jan 23, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Or we could beat Arsenal. 11 points clear and it could be groundhog days all over again for a certain part of North London and roll on 2017-2018 league season
		
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Long way to go yet before you can start shouting that silly St Tottering Day


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 23, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Surely Wenger should be getting a 3-5 game touchline ban, after pushing the 4th official.
		
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Good to see the FA have charged him, just got to wait and see the punishment.


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## freddielong (Jan 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Good to see the FA have charged him, just got to wait and see the punishment.
		
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I think it will have a positive effect on the team, it can be a bit calm and relaxed at times I think it will help instill a bit of siege mentality.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Good to see the FA have charged him, just got to wait and see the punishment.
		
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I think it was inevitable even with the post match apology. I would reckon at least three matches


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 23, 2017)

freddielong said:



			I think it will have a positive effect on the team, it can be a bit calm and relaxed at times I think it will help instill a bit of siege mentality.
		
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It's a strange one for me, maybe it is a bit safe at times, said a few times I'd happily swap your last 10 seasons for ours, however, as an Everton fan the only time I care about you's is twice a season when we play each other.
It must be frustrating as an Arsenal fan as over those 10 years you have probably been 1 or 2 players away from winning the PL a couple of times, I think you'll have a couple of interesting years ahead and were you'll be if and when Arsene retires,


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## Fish (Jan 23, 2017)

freddielong said:



			I think it will have a positive effect on the team, it can be a bit calm and relaxed at times I think it will help instill a bit of siege mentality.
		
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Whether he's on the bench or in the stands, what's the difference, it's not like he barks out any orders from the touch line, ever!


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## sawtooth (Jan 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			It's a strange one for me, maybe it is a bit safe at times, said a few times I'd happily swap your last 10 seasons for ours, however, as an Everton fan the only time I care about you's is twice a season when we play each other.
It must be frustrating as an Arsenal fan as over those 10 years you have probably been 1 or 2 players away from winning the PL a couple of times, I think you'll have a couple of interesting years ahead and were you'll be if and when Arsene retires,
		
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It's credit to Wenger that Arsenal even competed as well as they did in those 10 years. 

I don't look back and see failure I honestly don't. I celebrate the fact that we managed to move stadium, built a new training complex and yet stay in touch with the top end of the table. 

Now is the time that Arsenal can kick on, we're not as hamstrung as before and can expect big money signings when the right player comes available. 

My glass is well and truly half full.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 23, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think Cahill alluded to that in his after match interview stating that the 3 points against Hull were extremely important to maintain and have as good a buffer with a few tough games coming up.

There's no doubt that Chelsea _could_ drop some points over those tough games or even after, but by the same token Arsenal, Spurs and/or L'pool don't have it in them to go unbeaten the remainder of the season either!  It's one thing reducing a points gap when teams at the top play each other and another expecting the team at the top to lose to much lesser positioned clubs whilst those in the hunt go unbeaten!
		
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Spot on,I honestly don't see Arsenal,Spurs & Liverpool improving much. 
Theyre currently playing at their level & none of them have what it takes to win the league. 
City can obviously improve but they're too far back now imo. 
I can only see UTD improving under Mourinho,but top 4 is all they can hope for this season.


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## sawtooth (Jan 23, 2017)

Fish said:



			Whether he's on the bench or in the stands, what's the difference, it's not like he barks out any orders from the touch line, ever!
		
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When we have weekends like the last one that we had a part of me wonders if this could be our year.

We took 6 points from Burnley and our play fully deserved it, however it could easily have been 2 if not for a couple of minutes.


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## sawtooth (Jan 23, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Spot on,I honestly don't see Arsenal,Spurs & Liverpool improving much. 
Theyre currently playing at their level & none of them have what it takes to win the league. 
City can obviously improve but they're too far back now imo. 
I can only see UTD improving under Mourinho,but top 4 is all they can hope for this season.
		
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Not many would have predicted that Liverpool drop 7 points in 3 games (against the likes of Swansea and Sunderland.) 

It happens and Chelsea aren't unbeatable as Spurs showed a few weeks ago. 

Arsenal are not at full tilt but are still picking up wins.


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## Fish (Jan 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Not many would have predicted that Liverpool drop 7 points in 3 games (against the likes of Swansea and Sunderland.) .
		
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I did and have a bet running that there's more points to drop still as they fall from grace and out of the top 4 &#128540;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			It's credit to Wenger that Arsenal even competed as well as they did in those 10 years. 

I don't look back and see failure I honestly don't. I celebrate the fact that we managed to move stadium, built a new training complex and yet stay in touch with the top end of the table. 

Now is the time that Arsenal can kick on, we're not as hamstrung as before and can expect big money signings when the right player comes available. 

My glass is well and truly half full.
		
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Didn't use the word failure or criticise Wenger, asked if there was an element of frustration, a player signed 3 or 4 years ago against paying off the Stadium 1 year later, other teams have undoubtebly got stronger, we use to have a 2 horse title race, then 4, now 6. 
Chelsea have a nice gap and 2-6 is very close.


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## fundy (Jan 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			When we have weekends like the last one that we had a part of me wonders if this could be our year.

We took 6 points from Burnley and our play fully deserved it, however it could easily have been 2 if not for a couple of minutes.
		
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a 97th minute winner against pretty much the worst away side in the league, and 2 central midfielders proving how ineffective and dumb they are, yep looked like its gonna be our year to me too lol

that or we lose in the next round of the CL and finish 4th in the league

you ever watched groundhog day?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			It's credit to Wenger that Arsenal even competed as well as they did in those 10 years. 

I don't look back and see failure I honestly don't. I celebrate the fact that we managed to move stadium, built a new training complex and yet stay in touch with the top end of the table. 

Now is the time that Arsenal can kick on, we're not as hamstrung as before and can expect big money signings when the right player comes available. 

My glass is well and truly half full.
		
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And how many major trophies in that same period ? 

Every year you say the same thing about - kicking on , not being hamstrung ( have you seen how much Arsenal have spent over the last 5 years ) , expect big signings but it's the same result at the end of the season. 

When is it the time for more than that ?


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Not many would have predicted that Liverpool drop 7 points in 3 games (against the likes of Swansea and Sunderland.) 

It happens and Chelsea aren't unbeatable as Spurs showed a few weeks ago. 

Arsenal are not at full tilt but are still picking up wins.
		
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Spurs away was always going to be tough. 
But other teams didn't capitalze. 
Like Fish said,none of the other teams in contention are capable of going unbeaten. 
You'll make top 4 and that's about it &#128556;


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## sawtooth (Jan 23, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And how many major trophies in that same period ? 

Every year you say the same thing about - kicking on , not being hamstrung ( have you seen how much Arsenal have spent over the last 5 years ) , expect big signings but it's the same result at the end of the season. 

When is it the time for more than that ?
		
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Arsenal might win the league this year, why not? 

Still in the CL as well. 

Granted only 1 team can win the PL and there will be a few disappointed teams but that's life.

You were talking up Liverpool only a few games ago have you given up on them?


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## Fish (Jan 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Arsenal might win the league this year, why not?
		
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Because I say so, and will go as far as saying you won't be runner up either, fancy a bet &#129300;


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Arsenal might win the league this year, why not? 

Still in the CL as well. 

Granted only 1 team can win the PL and there will be a few disappointed teams but that's life.

You were talking up Liverpool only a few games ago have you given up on them?
		
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Arsenal won't win the league and they won't win the CL - it will be the exact same ending as the last ten seasons. 

I still think we will finish in the Top 4 - think Chelsea have too big a gap and the teams around don't have the consistency to close that gap


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## sawtooth (Jan 23, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Spurs away was always going to be tough. 
But other teams didn't capitalze. 
Like Fish said,none of the other teams in contention are capable of going unbeaten. 
You'll make top 4 and that's about it &#128556;
		
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Mate, Fish wrote off Spurs and United top 4 chances back in November. To say that a team cannot go on a run is really quite silly. United are on a run now aren't they?


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 23, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And how many major trophies in that same period ? 

Every year you say the same thing about - kicking on , not being hamstrung ( have you seen how much Arsenal have spent over the last 5 years ) , expect big signings but it's the same result at the end of the season. 

When is it the time for more than that ?
		
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And every year Liverpool are building for the future&#128580;
Suppose next year is your year. 
Why not go out & buy some real top quality rather than raiding Southampton or other mid table teams?


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## sawtooth (Jan 23, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Arsenal won't win the league and they won't win the CL - it will be the exact same ending as the last ten seasons. 

I still think we will finish in the Top 4 - think Chelsea have too big a gap and the teams around don't have the consistency to close that gap
		
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Top 4 ? So you think Liverpool have blown their chance to win the league?


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Mate, Fish wrote off Spurs and United top 4 chances back in November. To say that a team cannot go on a run is really quite silly. United are on a run now aren't they?
		
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Ok we'll see. 
Chelsea have had some average performance's recently.
Hull for example,yet took 3pts.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Top 4 ? So you think Liverpool have blown their chance to win the league?
		
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I think we have dropped too many silly points over the last month but we will see what happens.


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## sawtooth (Jan 23, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think we have dropped too many silly points over the last month but we will see what happens.
		
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So you have hope of catching Chelsea?


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## Fish (Jan 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Mate, Fish wrote off Spurs and United top 4 chances back in November. To say that a team cannot go on a run is really quite silly. United are on a run now aren't they?
		
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United have a very poor goal difference compared to those they will be in contention with and if they can maintain their current run, their still a good way from being in the top 4 for me unless someone above them goes into free fall! 

I've always said irrelevant of my picks at any time, runs can be put together but if those above that team are still winning then it doesn't mean a jot, they can only move up at the expense of someone above them failing,will that happen, are there cracks in Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal for Utd to climb, hell yeah!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			So you have hope of catching Chelsea?
		
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Have hope ? 

Every fan "hopes" but expectations need to be realistic  - i believe Chelsea will win the league now , what I hope doesn't really matter.

Anything can happen but right now it's a big ask for any team to catch Chelsea.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 23, 2017)

Once again we get someone asking an Arsenal fan a genuine question and along comes someone else to turn it into a Arsenal v Liverpool discussion,
Would be nice to have a serious debate rather than petty point scoring!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 23, 2017)

Fish said:



			United have a very poor goal difference compared to those they will be in contention with and if they can maintain their current run, their still a good way from being in the top 4 for me unless someone above them goes into free fall! 

I've always said irrelevant of my picks at any time, runs can be put together but if those above that team are still winning then it doesn't mean a jot, they can only move up at the expense of someone above them failing,will that happen, are there cracks in Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal for Utd to climb, hell yeah!
		
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As much as you may drop points, I can't see anyone catching you, Conte has been the best manager by far. Be interesting if or who he signs to strengthen you's next season.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 23, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			And every year Liverpool are building for the future&#128580;
Suppose next year is your year. 
Why not go out & buy some real top quality rather than raiding Southampton or other mid table teams?
		
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They have bought some good players, not just from Southampton but the issues remain, clear for many fans that the defence and arguably the keeper are the weak areas and still need shoring up with some top quality players. Whether that happens this month or in the summer remains to be seen. Of course you could argue your point is valid too and it's a continual work in progress and next year is THE year.


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## sawtooth (Jan 23, 2017)

Fish said:



			United have a very poor goal difference compared to those they will be in contention with and if they can maintain their current run, their still a good way from being in the top 4 for me unless someone above them goes into free fall! 

I've always said irrelevant of my picks at any time, runs can be put together but if those above that team are still winning then it doesn't mean a jot, they can only move up at the expense of someone above them failing,will that happen, are there cracks in Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal for Utd to climb, hell yeah!
		
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City dropped like a stone from looking pretty invincible not that long ago.

Chelsea could easily go through a bad patch. This league can change in a blink of an eye.


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## sawtooth (Jan 23, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Have hope ? 

Every fan "hopes" but expectations need to be realistic  - i believe Chelsea will win the league now , what I hope doesn't really matter.

Anything can happen but right now it's a big ask for any team to catch Chelsea.
		
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Closed question to make it easier

Do you think Liverpool can still win this league simply yes or no?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Closed question to make it easier

Do you think Liverpool can still win this league simply yes or no?
		
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Yes it is mathematically possible for Liverpool to win the league


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Closed question to make it easier

Do you think Liverpool *will* still win this league simply yes or no?
		
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That's the question you needed to ask. Many sides *can* still win it but you wouldn't put too much on it


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## Fish (Jan 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			City dropped like a stone from looking pretty invincible not that long ago.

Chelsea could easily go through a bad patch. This league can change in a blink of an eye.
		
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I think if you think Chelsea are capable of going on such a losing streak your deluded and not a football fan and just bitter! 

We've conceded only 4 goals in the last 4 months, do you seriously think that will suddenly change?


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## sawtooth (Jan 23, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes it is mathematically possible for Liverpool to win the league
		
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And so you should IMO.

Arsenal are at this moment in time 2 points better off than Liverpool and I think we can win the league as well. 

Spurs can too.

As can City and United.

Everything still to play for, anyone that disputes that really hasn't seen a lot of football over the years.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			And so you should IMO.

Arsenal are at this moment in time 2 points better off than Liverpool and I think we can win the league as well. 

Spurs can too.

As can City and United.

Everything still to play for, anyone that disputes that really hasn't seen a lot of football over the years.
		
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How many teams over the last decade that were in the same sort of position as Chelsea have not gone on to win the league ?

They are 8 points clear with 16 games left - as well as Chelsea having to drop points the other teams also have to go on unbeaten runs 

Football doesn't work in hope - it works in reality - and the reality is Chelsea should win the league with a couple games left to spare , they have the lead , the strongest 11 with prob the best striker in the Prem and the strongest back line. 

Arsenal , Liverpool , City , Spurs are fighting for 3 CL spots right now - that is being realistic.


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## Fish (Jan 23, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How many teams over the last decade that were in the same sort of position as Chelsea have not gone on to win the league ?

They are 8 points clear with 16 games left - as well as Chelsea having to drop points the other teams also have to go on unbeaten runs 

Football doesn't work in hope - it works in reality - and the reality is Chelsea should win the league with a couple games left to spare , they have the lead , the strongest 11 with prob the best striker in the Prem and the strongest back line. 

Arsenal , Liverpool , City , Spurs are fighting for 3 CL spots right now - that is being realistic.
		
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Is the right answer but I still take nothing for granted just yet, but as far as realistic expectations, it's ours to lose now.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 23, 2017)

Fish said:



			I did and have a bet running that there's more points to drop still as they fall from grace and out of the top 4 &#63004;
		
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Who was that with?


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 23, 2017)

Fish said:



			Because I say so, and will go as far as saying you won't be runner up either, fancy a bet &#63764;
		
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Your trying to lay your bet off, to pay me with, arent yer?


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 23, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think if you think Chelsea are capable of going on such a losing streak your deluded and not a football fan and just bitter! 

We've conceded only 4 goals in the last 4 months, do you seriously think that will suddenly change?
		
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I dont think you will lose the league now, but Champions to not even in Europe, probably back to champions, says that its not beyond the realms of possibility in this league, for you to go on a losing streak.

Whats highly unlikely is someone putting a good enough run to catch you, though.


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## sawtooth (Jan 23, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How many teams over the last decade that were in the same sort of position as Chelsea have not gone on to win the league ?

They are 8 points clear with 16 games left - as well as Chelsea having to drop points the other teams also have to go on unbeaten runs 

Football doesn't work in hope - it works in reality - and the reality is Chelsea should win the league with a couple games left to spare , they have the lead , the strongest 11 with prob the best striker in the Prem and the strongest back line. 

Arsenal , Liverpool , City , Spurs are figh
		
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How long have you followed football for?

95-96 Newcastle lost a 12 point in March to United

97-98 Arsenal came back from 11 points behind in March to beat United

03-04 Arsenal lost from an 8 point lead to United later in the season than now

08-09 Liverpool lost a 8 point lead later in the season then now.

11-12 Ok City ended up winning still on the last kick of the season but their 8 point lead in April disappeared


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## Fish (Jan 23, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			I dont think you will lose the league now, but Champions to not even in Europe, probably back to champions, says that its not beyond the realms of possibility in this league, for you to go on a losing streak.

Whats highly unlikely is someone putting a good enough run to catch you, though.
		
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There's a huge difference imo to not getting a good start and then battling your way up the league with so may teams above you, which I think we did fantastically towards the end with a brilliant run, and being where we are now and going in reverse! 

I don't think I need to lay my bet off, just yet &#128540;


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			How long have you followed football for?

95-96 Newcastle lost a 12 point in March to United

97-98 Arsenal came back from 11 points behind in March to beat United

03-04 Arsenal lost from an 8 point lead to United later in the season than now

08-09 Liverpool lost a 8 point lead later in the season then now.

11-12 Ok City ended up winning still on the last kick of the season but their 8 point lead in April disappeared
		
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So you came up with 5 examples - 3 are over a decade old ( as i did ask in the last decade ) 

In 08/09 - we were second with 16 games left ? So how did we lose an 8 point lead later in the season when we were the team chasing Utd ? 

City still won in 11/12 

Didn't Arsenal also win in 03/04 being Top with 16 games left and never being overtaken 

Maybe a bit of research is required


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## sawtooth (Jan 23, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So you came up with 5 examples - 3 are over a decade old ( as i did ask in the last decade ) 

In 08/09 - we were second with 16 games left ? So how did we lose an 8 point lead later in the season when we were the team chasing Utd ? 

City still won in 11/12 

Didn't Arsenal also win in 03/04 being Top with 16 games left and never being overtaken 

Maybe a bit of research is required
		
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I think I've just blown your silly argument about an unassailable lead out of the water tbh. 

Why the cap at 10 years anyway. The fact is bigger leads and much later in the season have been surrended. You have been talking out of your backside and the facts speak for themselves.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I think I've just blown your silly argument about an unassailable lead out of the water tbh. 

Why the cap at 10 years anyway. The fact is bigger leads and much later in the season have been surrended. You have been talking out of your backside and the facts speak for themselves.
		
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Eh ?!

I asked how teams over the last decade that were in the same sort of position as Chelsea and haven't gone onto win the league 

You answered with 

5 answers , 3 over a decade ago , 2 of them the team still won the league , one that wasn't in the same position as Chelsea 

Suggest you research better and ensure you get your facts correct


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## Fish (Jan 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I think I've just blown your silly argument about an unassailable lead out of the water tbh. 

Why the cap at 10 years anyway. The fact is bigger leads and much later in the season have been surrended. You have been talking out of your backside and the facts speak for themselves.
		
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But in all those examples most were won in the low 80's and even 1 season not achieving 80 points! Chelsea have won previously in the mid 90's points and with their current points tally look to be heading for 90 points plus again, those years you highlight there was no dominance from any team hence and due to the very low points achieved to win the league, I think it's you who needs to look at the bigger picture as they are very poor examples.


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## sawtooth (Jan 24, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Eh ?!

I asked how teams over the last decade that were in the same sort of position as Chelsea and haven't gone onto win the league 

You answered with 

5 answers , 3 over a decade ago , 2 of them the team still won the league , one that wasn't in the same position as Chelsea 

Suggest you research better and ensure you get your facts correct
		
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1 team still win not 2.

Arsenal is a typo ,meant to be 02-03

Say what you like but they are all perfectly good examples of where  an 8 point lead or more have been swallowed up in 1-2 months and here we are in January with almost 4 months left to go.

Your twisting cannot change the record books. I'm sure that it looked bleak and Ã ll but over for 4 of those clubs chasing back then as it does for Arsenal and others now but they managed it.

In 02-03 there was actually a 13 point swing,Arsenal were top with an 8 point gap but ended up losing by a 5 point margin.

If that's doesn't count due to your "only lastb10 years count" rule then what do you have to say about Liverpool in 08-09?

Won 8 in a row that year, 8 points clear, lost by 4 to United in the end who actually made up 12 points on Liverpool in the closing couple of months.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			1 team still win not 2.

Arsenal is a typo ,meant to be 02-03

Say what you like but they are all perfectly good examples of where  an 8 point lead or more have been swallowed up in 1-2 months and here we are in January with almost 4 months left to go.

Your twisting cannot change the record books. I'm sure that it looked bleak and Ã ll but over for 4 of those clubs chasing back then as it does for Arsenal and others now but they managed it.

In 02-03 there was actually a 13 point swing,Arsenal were top with an 8 point gap but ended up losing by a 5 point margin.

*If that's doesn't count due to your "only lastb10 years count" rule then what do you have to say about Liverpool in 08-09?

Won 8 in a row that year, 8 points clear, lost by 4 to United in the end who actually made up 12 points on Liverpool in the closing couple of months.*

Click to expand...

Because we weren't 8 points clear in Jan 

We were second from week 20 of the season we're team chasing Man Utd - 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008â€“09_Liverpool_F.C._season

Said you need to check your facts a few times now 

I haven't twisted anything 

I don't believe Chelsea will be caught and will win the league


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## Imurg (Jan 24, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Once again we get someone asking an Arsenal fan a genuine question and along comes someone else to turn it into a Arsenal v Liverpool discussion,
Would be nice to have a serious debate rather than petty point scoring!
		
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You don't want much do you....&#128526;


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## pokerjoke (Jan 24, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How many teams over the last decade that were in the same sort of position as Chelsea have not gone on to win the league ?

They are 8 points clear with 16 games left - as well as Chelsea having to drop points the other teams also have to go on unbeaten runs 

Football doesn't work in hope - it works in reality - and the reality is Chelsea should win the league with a couple games left to spare , they have the lead , the strongest 11 with prob the best striker in the Prem and the strongest back line. 

Arsenal , Liverpool , City , Spurs are fighting for 3 CL spots right now - that is being realistic.
		
Click to expand...

Probably right about Chelsea but your last statement is far from realistic.

Yes I know you don't think Utd will be fighting for C/L but in the real world how is that being realistic.

We are 6 points off 2nd and on a great run so are well in the mix and write us off at your peril.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 24, 2017)

Fish said:



			United have a very poor goal difference compared to those they will be in contention with and if they can maintain their current run, their still a good way from being in the top 4 for me unless someone above them goes into free fall! 

I've always said irrelevant of my picks at any time, runs can be put together but if those above that team are still winning then it doesn't mean a jot, they can only move up at the expense of someone above them failing,will that happen, are there cracks in Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal for Utd to climb, hell yeah!
		
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A few 6 or 7 nils should change that GD


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## pokerjoke (Jan 24, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Mate, Fish wrote off Spurs and United top 4 chances back in November. To say that a team cannot go on a run is really quite silly. United are on a run now aren't they?
		
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Spot on we are on a run however since we have turned it around the top 5 have been winning too unfortunately.

Long way to go as people say.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 24, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Probably right about Chelsea but your last statement is far from realistic.

Yes I know you don't think Utd will be fighting for C/L but in the real world how is that being realistic.

We are 6 points off 2nd and on a great run so are well in the mix and write us off at your peril.
		
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Everton are closer to 4th than 4th are to 1st so if people want to be realistic maybe it's not over for us yet.


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## sawtooth (Jan 24, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Spot on we are on a run however since we have turned it around the top 5 have been winning too unfortunately.

Long way to go as people say.
		
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No, according to LP and Fish it's all over.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 24, 2017)

Imurg said:



			You don't want much do you....&#128526;
		
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We can all dream :thup:


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## Fish (Jan 24, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			No, according to LP and Fish it's all over.
		
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Please quote the post where I have said?


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## sawtooth (Jan 24, 2017)

Fish said:



			Please quote the post where I have said?
		
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Seriously? You've said a few times that we are all playing for second place. Also your very last mail questions what I said about teams coming back from 8 points and how it's so very different with Chelsea this year.

We'll see how bomb proof your title campaign is over the coming weeks and months.


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## Fish (Jan 24, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Seriously? You've said a few times that we are all playing for second place. Also your very last mail questions what I said about teams coming back from 8 points and how it's so very different with Chelsea this year.

We'll see how bomb proof your title campaign is over the coming weeks and months.
		
Click to expand...

Bomb proof &#128514;&#128514; 

I think you read what you want and don't digest things that are really said, I've left all my posts regarding the actual title and places quite open, there's only 1 person blinkered here and twisting/spinning things, and it's not LP. 

I think your anger is born from frustration, maybe being the nearly men for so long is starting to take its effect on you as another season with the possibility of an empty cabinet looms &#128540;


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## freddielong (Jan 24, 2017)

Fish said:



			But in all those examples most were won in the low 80's and even 1 season not achieving 80 points! Chelsea have won previously in the mid 90's points and with their current points tally look to be heading for 90 points plus again, those years you highlight there was no dominance from any team hence and due to the very low points achieved to win the league, I think it's you who needs to look at the bigger picture as they are very poor examples.
		
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I think the point Sawtooth was trying to make is that it is Chelsea s to loose but it has happened before and for it to happen the team leading needs a bad run or a mini collapse. Obviously if Chelsea obtain the number of points you were taking about there won't have been a collapse and Chelsea won't have let anyone back in.


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## sawtooth (Jan 24, 2017)

Fish said:



			Bomb proof &#128514;&#128514; 

I think you read what you want and don't digest things that are really said, I've left all my posts regarding the actual title and places quite open, there's only 1 person blinkered here and twisting/spinning things, and it's not LP. 

I think your anger is born from frustration, maybe being the nearly men for so long is starting to take its effect on you as another season with the possibility of an empty cabinet looms &#128540;
		
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Not angry at all just confused that you and LP can call the title winners in January.

It's not necessarily over and history backs me up on that.


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## freddielong (Jan 24, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How many teams over the last decade that were in the same sort of position as Chelsea have not gone on to win the league ?
		
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I always find it hilarious how Liverpoolphil always adds his own time frame for the thing you have to prove as if outside of that it's not important or didn't happen.

In the last fifteen minutes how many times have Arsenal. .    ......

I heard something yesterday that suprised me in there first 81 games LVG at Utd and Klopp at pool have the same number of wins (same win rate).

One was terrible the other is the second coming, you wor it out.


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## Fish (Jan 24, 2017)

freddielong said:



			I* think the point Sawtooth was trying to make is that it is Chelsea s to loose* but it has happened before and for it to happen the team leading needs a bad run or a mini collapse. Obviously if Chelsea obtain the number of points you were taking about there won't have been a collapse and Chelsea won't have let anyone back in.
		
Click to expand...

and I have said exactly that and stated I still take nothing for granted, but he then quotes me as saying 'it's all over' and we are 'bomb proof', I have said no such statements or even alluded to them!


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## anotherdouble (Jan 24, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Long way to go yet before you can start shouting that silly St Tottering Day
		
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What you on about St Tottering day. I was quoting an Aresenal supporter and any Groundhog Day wouldn't be apt for Spurs because apart from last year you have never been in the chase


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## freddielong (Jan 24, 2017)

Fish said:



			and I have said exactly that and stated I still take nothing for granted, but he then quotes me as saying 'it's all over' and we are 'bomb proof', I have said no such statements or even alluded to them!
		
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It may just be the way it's worded but your post that I quoted sounds to me that you would rule it out.


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## anotherdouble (Jan 24, 2017)

fundy said:



			a 97th minute winner against pretty much the worst away side in the league, and 2 central midfielders proving how ineffective and dumb they are, yep looked like its gonna be our year to me too lol

that or we lose in the next round of the CL and finish 4th in the league

you ever watched groundhog day?
		
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Don't mention Groundhog Day or the Spurs supporters will be on your back


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## anotherdouble (Jan 24, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			As much as you may drop points, I can't see anyone catching you, Conte has been the best manager by far. Be interesting if or who he signs to strengthen you's next season.
		
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Be good to get a top notch striker. I am not convinced that Costa will stay. I think there is a lot more than what the club have said


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 24, 2017)

Point is, if Costa goes in the summer then they will get a bucket load for him. They can then spend that bucket load on another top striker. So the circle goes on. 

It is no great statement to say this is Chelsea's to lose. They look powerful, well balanced and put teams away. They look a complete team. Not as hateful as past years either . They don't seem to have the same snarling, nastiness of past era's. All the better for it as well.


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## sawtooth (Jan 24, 2017)

Fish said:



			and I have said exactly that and stated I still take nothing for granted, but he then quotes me as saying 'it's all over' and we are 'bomb proof', I have said no such statements or even alluded to them!
		
Click to expand...

No I didn't quote you as saying that, several of your mails IMPLY that you think it's all over and that the lead is unassailable.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2017)

freddielong said:



			I always find it hilarious how Liverpoolphil always adds his own time frame for the thing you have to prove as if outside of that it's not important or didn't happen.

In the last fifteen minutes how many times have Arsenal. .    ......

I heard something yesterday that suprised me in there first 81 games LVG at Utd and Klopp at pool have the same number of wins (same win rate).

One was terrible the other is the second coming, you wor it out.
		
Click to expand...

Ok let me help you out a little to try and understand the need for timelines in the sport 

In 1991 there was a very big change in the Sport - the Prem was started and money started to come into the game - that started the dominance of Man Utd with Arsenal popping up every now and then with a win but from the years of 1991 to 2004/5 there was only really a two horse race in regards the title - there was no real "big 4/5/6" also looking to secure CL spots 

Then in 2004 the picture changed again - Abramovich arrived and this first real Top 4 appeared - , then when City arrived and with Spurs appearing again it became a Top 6 

So the reason why I use a decade as a timeline is because it gives a more recent picture of how things are within the Prem

Did someone 20 years lose an 8 point lead - yes they did but for me it not a fair comparison but the league has massively changed since 20 years. 

So for me because in the last decade teams don't throw away 8 point league with only 16 games left in the season - teams are too strong for that now. It just doesn't happen with the way the league is now. If someone wants to hold out hope by using an example 20 years ago then away they go - the chances are more than likely they will be disappointed "again" 

As for Klopp and LVG - the response is and ? 

Liverpool fans are happy with Klopp and the style of play and what he is trying to achieve at the club and Man Utd weren't happy with LVG and his style of play. But then you won't be able to see that using a stat


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## sawtooth (Jan 24, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ok let me help you out a little to try and understand the need for timelines in the sport 

In 1991 there was a very big change in the Sport - the Prem was started and money started to come into the game - that started the dominance of Man Utd with Arsenal popping up every now and then with a win but from the years of 1991 to 2004/5 there was only really a two horse race in regards the title - there was no real "big 4/5/6" also looking to secure CL spots 

Then in 2004 the picture changed again - Abramovich arrived and this first real Top 4 appeared - , then when City arrived and with Spurs appearing again it became a Top 6 

So the reason why I use a decade as a timeline is because it gives a more recent picture of how things are within the Prem

Did someone 20 years lose an 8 point lead - yes they did but for me it not a fair comparison but the league has massively changed since 20 years. 

So for me because in the last decade teams don't throw away 8 point league with only 16 games left in the season - teams are too strong for that now. It just doesn't happen with the way the league is now. If someone wants to hold out hope by using an example 20 years ago then away they go - the chances are more than likely they will be disappointed "again" 

As for Klopp and LVG - the response is and ? 

Liverpool fans are happy with Klopp and the style of play and what he is trying to achieve at the club and Man Utd weren't happy with LVG and his style of play. But then you won't be able to see that using a stat
		
Click to expand...

What a load of tosh.If anything there are more teams around today capable of taking points of the leaders.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 24, 2017)

freddielong said:



			I heard something yesterday that suprised me in there first 81 games LVG at Utd and Klopp at pool have the same number of wins (same win rate).

One was terrible the other is the second coming, you wor it out.
		
Click to expand...

Even if it was true, if one gets 15 draws extra, and the other one has only two, one manager is 13 points better off, so enjoy your sky stats (if true) but it doesn't paint the bigger picture.

Also LVG was playing mind-numbingly boring football, was using players who less than 3 years ago had been champions, and had also spent over 100 (maybe even 200 million).

Still think Klopp is doing the same as LVG?


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## sawtooth (Jan 24, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Still think Klopp is doing the same as LVG?
		
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No. LVG managed to win something,&#128512;


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			What a load of tosh.If anything there are more teams around today capable of taking points of the leaders.
		
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So why hasn't it happened - teams aren't taking points of the leaders yet they are taking them off all the other teams. If it was 4/5 points then there is a chance but it's 8 and only 16 games left - that is a very big gap and as already said no team since Abramovich arrived in 04 has thrown away such a big lead at this time of the year - all the teams have gone on to win the title


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 24, 2017)

No team with 55 points or more after 22 games has failed to become champs since the PL began


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 24, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			No. LVG managed to win something,&#62976;
		
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True.

FA cup wins normally keep a manager in a job, though.


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## fundy (Jan 24, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			No team with 55 points or more after 22 games has failed to become champs since the PL began
		
Click to expand...

how many sides have had 55 points after 22 games? cant be that many can it?


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## fundy (Jan 24, 2017)

btw, Chelsea win it about 7 times out of 10 from here if you believe the betting (think its more than that personally)


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## freddielong (Jan 24, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Even if it was true, if one gets 15 draws extra, and the other one has only two, one manager is 13 points better off, so enjoy your sky stats (if true) but it doesn't paint the bigger picture.

Also LVG was playing mind-numbingly boring football, was using players who less than 3 years ago had been champions, and had also spent over 100 (maybe even 200 million).

Still think Klopp is doing the same as LVG?
		
Click to expand...

Sorry it was just throw away stat that suprised me, I would also prefer Klopp to LVG


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 24, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			No team with 55 points or more after 22 games has failed to become champs since the PL began
		
Click to expand...

Is that "the" PL, or the one from 15 years ago or the one that is only 10 years old, apparently it's changed beyond recognition


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 24, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Sorry it was just throw away stat that suprised me, I would also prefer Klopp to LVG
		
Click to expand...

As a person, Klopp for me all day, as LPool manager I'd refer LVG :rofl:


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## sawtooth (Jan 24, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So why hasn't it happened - teams aren't taking points of the leaders yet they are taking them off all the other teams. If it was 4/5 points then there is a chance but it's 8 and only 16 games left - that is a very big gap and as already said no team since Abramovich arrived in 04 has thrown away such a big lead at this time of the year - all the teams have gone on to win the title
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps it will be 5 points after the next round of matches who knows . Liverpool COULD (note emphasis on could) beat Chelsea and Arsenal COULD beat Watford. 

Not impossible and the bookies would give you pretty short odds for that particular double.

And it's not a quantum leap for Arsenal to beat Chelsea in a one off game ( we already beat them 3 nil this season) and then the gap is only 2.


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## freddielong (Jan 24, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ok let me help you out a little to try and understand the need for timelines in the sport 

In 1991 there was a very big change in the Sport - the Prem was started and money started to come into the game - that started the dominance of Man Utd with Arsenal popping up every now and then with a win but from the years of 1991 to 2004/5 there was only really a two horse race in regards the title - there was no real "big 4/5/6" also looking to secure CL spots 

Then in 2004 the picture changed again - Abramovich arrived and this first real Top 4 appeared - , then when City arrived and with Spurs appearing again it became a Top 6 

So the reason why I use a decade as a timeline is because it gives a more recent picture of how things are within the Prem

Did someone 20 years lose an 8 point lead - yes they did but for me it not a fair comparison but the league has massively changed since 20 years. 

So for me because in the last decade teams don't throw away 8 point league with only 16 games left in the season - teams are too strong for that now. It just doesn't happen with the way the league is now. If someone wants to hold out hope by using an example 20 years ago then away they go - the chances are more than likely they will be disappointed "again" 

As for Klopp and LVG - the response is and ? 

Liverpool fans are happy with Klopp and the style of play and what he is trying to achieve at the club and Man Utd weren't happy with LVG and his style of play. But then you won't be able to see that using a stat
		
Click to expand...

I think also using the precious decade I am sure Arsenal were 6 points ahead in February in 2008 and Liverpool were 3 or 4 ahead with a  couple to go.


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## sawtooth (Jan 24, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			True.

FA cup wins normally keep a manager in a job, though. 

Click to expand...

It should help, it is a major trophy is it not?

(Cue another 50 pointless posts arguing a toss that the FA Cup is a major trophy or not).&#128580;


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## Fish (Jan 24, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Perhaps it will be 5 points after the next round of matches who knows . Liverpool COULD (note emphasis on could) beat Chelsea and Arsenal COULD beat Watford. 

Not impossible and the bookies would give you pretty short odds for that particular double.

And it's not a quantum leap for Arsenal to beat Chelsea in a one off game ( we already beat them 3 nil this season) and then the gap is only 2.
		
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This speaks volumes to me as it should read, Liverpool COULD beat Chelsea (especially at home) and Arsenal SHOULD beat Watford! (anywhere).  

Your lack of confidence to not beat teams below you if you believe you are indeed title contenders displays the lack of ambition Arsenal and their fans have and to settle for a top 4 spot, again. 

#GroundhogDay


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## sawtooth (Jan 24, 2017)

Fish said:



			This speaks volumes to me as it should read, Liverpool COULD beat Chelsea (especially at home) and Arsenal SHOULD beat Watford! (anywhere).  

Your lack of confidence to not beat teams below you if you believe you are indeed title contenders displays the lack of ambition Arsenal and their fans have and to settle for a top 4 spot, again. 

#GroundhogDay
		
Click to expand...

Actually if I would have typed SHOULD what would happen if Arsenal lose to Watford?  No thanks. Every game a final as Watford battling for points. I thought you would have remembered that bottom club Swansea just beat title challengers Liverpool at their own ground.

How can I be lacking confidence when I've said a number of times that Arsenal can still win this league?

Others have given up on their team but I'm a glass half full person and still everything to play for.

Any one from 6 can still win it.


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## anotherdouble (Jan 24, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			No team with 55 points or more after 22 games has failed to become champs since the PL began
		
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Cheers for that Mr HJS. Everything must end. Have the mockers now been cast :mmm:


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## Slime (Jan 24, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Football doesn't work in hope - it works in reality - and the reality is Chelsea should win the league with a couple games left to spare , they have the lead , the strongest 11 with prob the best striker in the Prem and the strongest back line. 

*Arsenal , Liverpool , City , Spurs are fighting for 3 CL spots right now* - that is being realistic.
		
Click to expand...

Oy, don't forget United :thup:.



Liverpoolphil said:



			Ok let me help you out a little to try and understand the need for timelines in the sport 

*In 1991 there was a very big change in the Sport - the Prem was started* and money started to come into the game - that started the dominance of Man Utd with Arsenal popping up every now and then with a win but from the years of 1991 to 2004/5 there was only really a two horse race in regards the title - there was no real "big 4/5/6" also looking to secure CL spots
		
Click to expand...

If stats are so important then it would be vital to get them correct.
As far as I am aware the Premier League did NOT start in 1991, it was actually founded on 20th February 1992 ................. just saying.


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## Fish (Jan 24, 2017)

Slime said:



			Oy, don't forget United :thup:.



If stats are so important then it would be vital to get them correct.
As far as I am aware the Premier League did NOT start in 1991, it was actually founded on 20th February 1992 ................. just saying.
		
Click to expand...

With the first match being in August 1992, yernited were the first to win the PL title and there's some good stats from the opening matches, like, Teddy Sheringham scored the first televised and winning goal for Forest against Liverpool :smirk: Mark Robbins scored 2 goals to allow Norwich a 4-2 win against Arsenal at Highbury :smirk: Cantona scored the first PL hat trick when Leeds thrashed Spurs 5-nil :smirk: 

Here's a passage from that first PL end of season report:  _The early pacesetters were Norwich, who won 10 of their first 16 matches, with Arsenal, Blackburn and Aston Villa close behind. While Arsenal fell away...! _ I see some things haven't changed that much :smirk:  

Utd finished 10 points clear of Villa with Norwich, Blackburn & QPR making up the other top places 

Oh how times have changed, well for some :smirk:


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## Kellfire (Jan 24, 2017)

Xhaka in the headlines again. Being accused of racially abuse at Heathrow.


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## Fish (Jan 24, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Xhaka in the headlines again. Being accused of racially abuse at Heathrow.
		
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...enal-accused-racial-abuse-interviewed-police/


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 24, 2017)

So In an attempt to avoid relegated Sunderland sign Lescott &#128547;


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 24, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Liverpool fans are happy with Klopp and the style of play and what he is trying to achieve at the club and Man Utd weren't happy with LVG and his style of play. But then you won't be able to see that using a stat
		
Click to expand...

So you can be happy with a manager that currently has you sat 4th in the table & 10pts off the top,But you can't accept that some Arsenal fans are happy with Wenger? 

Are you hoping that banging on about it will make them change their minds? 

It's an opinion Phil,everybody's doesn't have to have the same as yours &#128077;&#127995;&#128077;&#127995;


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 24, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			So In an attempt to avoid relegated Sunderland sign Lescott &#128547;
		
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They have no money, not sure how in the era of Sky money, and so that's the table they are feeding at. You have to be pretty bad this year to end up lower than Sunderland.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 24, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			So In an attempt to avoid relegated Sunderland sign Lescott &#128547;
		
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Wow, That sounds desperate. At 34 his best days are behind him and not sure what he'll give they haven't already got


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 24, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They have no money, not sure how in the era of Sky money, and so that's the table they are feeding at. You have to be pretty bad this year to end up lower than Sunderland.
		
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They'd have been better of making no signing. 
How interested do you think he will be in a relegation scrap.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 24, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			They'd have been better of making no signing. 
How interested do you think he will be in a relegation scrap.
		
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Probably the opposite, if he does well and they stay up he gets a last chance of PL football. Tbh he's better than most of what they've got!


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 24, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Probably the opposite, if he does well and they stay up he gets a last chance of PL football. Tbh he's better than most of what they've got!
		
Click to expand...

Or he couldn't believe his luck for one last pay day. 
Looks like he's been spending his spare time at Greggs.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 24, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Probably the opposite, if he does well and they stay up he gets a last chance of PL football. Tbh he's better than most of what they've got!
		
Click to expand...

Not based on the evidence of last season. Stole a living at Villa, and if he couldn't get motivated to perform for the club he (supposedly) supported what do you think he will give Sunderland.

He was/is a classic example of a player who looks better the better the other players around him.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 24, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			Not based on the evidence of last season. Stole a living at Villa, and if he couldn't get motivated to perform for the club he (supposedly) supported what do you think he will give Sunderland.

He was/is a classic example of a player who looks better the better the other players around him.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 24, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Or he couldn't believe his luck for one last pay day. 
Looks like he's been spending his spare time at Greggs.
		
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All the pictures of him today at Sunderland have him looking lean, not sure what picture you've seen.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 24, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			Not based on the evidence of last season. Stole a living at Villa, and if he couldn't get motivated to perform for the club he (supposedly) supported what do you think he will give Sunderland.

He was/is a classic example of a player who looks better the better the other players around him.
		
Click to expand...

On the evidence of the Sunderland defence this season and Moyes knows him, it is only my opinion that he's got nothing to lose.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 24, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			On the evidence of the Sunderland defence this season and Moyes knows him, it is only my opinion that he's got nothing to lose.
		
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You could be right but I suspect that, with the type of players round him, it will be more the Villa version rather than the Everton or Man City. Not exactly getting any younger either.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 24, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			On the evidence of the Sunderland defence this season and Moyes knows him, it is only my opinion that he's got nothing to lose.
		
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Think you're missing the point here Paul&#129300;
He's definitely got nothing to lose,but Sunderland have&#128584;
Did you actually see him "playing" for Villa?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 24, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Think you're missing the point here Paul&#129300;
He's definitely got nothing to lose,but Sunderland have&#128584;
Did you actually see him "playing" for Villa?
		
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Only last season, but I've seen Sunderland a lot this season and obviously when he was with us, Moyes knows what he's getting, better than an unknown and only on loan which can be cancelled.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 24, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Only last season, but I've seen Sunderland a lot this season and obviously when he was with us, Moyes knows what he's getting, better than an unknown and only on loan which can be cancelled.
		
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Personally I'd rather take the unknown that's hungry & looking to impress. 
Can't even use the experience line,because he was embarrassing last season.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 24, 2017)

And yes he's certainly looking buff 
	

:rofl::rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 24, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Personally I'd rather take the unknown that's hungry & looking to impress. 
Can't even use the experience line,because he was embarrassing last season.
		
Click to expand...

They've in theory got those and they are not stepping up! The whole Villa team were embarrassing you can't single 1 player out.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 24, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			They've in theory got those and they are not stepping up! The whole Villa team were embarrassing you can't single 1 player out.
		
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I'm not singling one player out,he's the one currently being discussed.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 24, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			They've in theory got those and they are not stepping up! The whole Villa team were embarrassing you can't single 1 player out.
		
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I support the real Birmingham team but have friends and relatives who follow Villa and I think they would all agree that they were all pathetic but they have a special place in their hearts for the disaster that was Lescott and Micah Richards.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 24, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			I support the real Birmingham team but have friends and relatives who follow Villa and I think they would all agree that they were all pathetic but they have a special place in their hearts for the disaster that was Lescott and Micah Richards.
		
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Similar to how the locals here feel about their current centre half's &#128515;


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 24, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			It should help, it is a major trophy is it not?

(Cue another 50 pointless posts arguing a toss that the FA Cup is a major trophy or not).&#63044;
		
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Yes, agreed it is a major trophy.:thup:

So is the league cup.:thup:


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## sawtooth (Jan 24, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			So is the league cup.:thup:
		
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I bet it won't be this time tomorrow.  :thup:


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 24, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I bet it won't be this time tomorrow.  :thup:
		
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Oh yes it is, no matter what the result.


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## sawtooth (Jan 24, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Oh yes it is, no matter what the result.
		
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Thats good to hear ( providing you are not taking the pish)

I remember watching Arsenal beat Liverpool 2-1 in the Littlewoods cup 1987. At that age at least it felt like the World Cup to me. I wonder if the spotty 16 yr olds of today feel the same way as I did back then? Or has it lost any of its magic?


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 24, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Thats good to hear ( providing you are not taking the pish)

I remember watching Arsenal beat Liverpool 2-1 in the Littlewoods cup 1987. At that age at least it felt like the World Cup to me. I wonder if the spotty 16 yr olds of today feel the same way as I did back then? Or has it lost any of its magic?
		
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No you didnt win it that day.

Our players hit the back of the net 3 times, you scored none. 

I was there myself,the first time Rush had scored and we'd been beaten, after about 6 years. It happened a few days later against Norwich, as well.

It is a major trophy, not the most sought after, but still a good trophy to win. Just look at the winners over the last 10 years.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 24, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			He was/is a classic example of a player who looks better the better the other players around him.
		
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Like Gerrard at Liverpool who looked brilliant with Alonso/Mascherano/Suarez around him or Lampard at Chelsea with Essien/Makelele/Drogba. Even I would look reasonable with those players around me but put them in an England shirt with lesser players around them and they did nothing/very little.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 24, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Like Gerrard at Liverpool who looked brilliant with Alonso/Mascherano/Suarez around him or Lampard at Chelsea with Essien/Makelele/Drogba. Even I would look reasonable with those players around me but put them in an England shirt with lesser players around them and they did nothing/very little.
		
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So all England footballers over the last 50 years have been rubbish then?

Does that make De Bruyne, Torres, Lukaku, Morientes, Veron,  rubbish then, cos they didnt do it at Chelsea/Liverpool/United, even though they were great elsewhere?

What about when Gerrard had Biscan, Cheyrou and Diao around him - he was still a great player then.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 24, 2017)

I didn't say they were rubbish, just not as good as they were made out to be. My point is that they were made to look better than they actually are by the players around them. Gerrard, Lampard, Beckham, Ferdinand, Terry, A. Cole, Rooney have all been feted as world class but all seven played in the same team and did nothing at international level.

De Bruyne is only 25 and is now starting to show what he is capable of. Torres and Morientes performed for Spain at the highest level, Veron likewise for Argentina. Lukaku is still to prove himself.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 24, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			I didn't say they were rubbish, just not as good as they were made out to be. My point is that they were made to look better than they actually are by the players around them. Gerrard, Lampard, Beckham, Ferdinand, Terry, A. Cole, Rooney have all been feted as world class but all seven played in the same team and did nothing at international level.

De Bruyne is only 25 and is now starting to show what he is capable of. Torres and Morientes performed for Spain at the highest level, Veron likewise for Argentina. Lukaku is still to prove himself.
		
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What exactly did Morientes win with Spain? Or veron with Argentina?

ashley cole was the best lb in the world for quite some time. I don't think anyone else came close to marking Ronaldo or messi out of a game like he did on numerous occasions. 

Many players ers haven't won major into honours. Doesn't make them bad players. Just look at some of the cb at top teams now. Terry and Ferdinand would walk into almost any team.


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## richart (Jan 24, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Wow, That sounds desperate. At 34 his best days are behind him and not sure what he'll give they haven't already got
		
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A 33 year old centre back has just gone for 8 million.


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## sawtooth (Jan 25, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Like Gerrard at Liverpool who looked brilliant with Alonso/Mascherano/Suarez around him or Lampard at Chelsea with Essien/Makelele/Drogba. Even I would look reasonable with those players around me but put them in an England shirt with lesser players around them and they did nothing/very little.
		
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Using that logic Sterling and Stones should be leaving City in the next year or two as they look average even surrounded by great players at City.  

Not the best use of Â£100M it has to be said.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 25, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Like Gerrard at Liverpool who looked brilliant with Alonso/Mascherano/Suarez around him or Lampard at Chelsea with Essien/Makelele/Drogba. Even I would look reasonable with those players around me but put them in an England shirt with lesser players around them and they did nothing/very little.
		
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Doesnt the performances of the Chelsea players under Maureen for his last half season at Chelsea and the players performances under Conte dispel that idea? 
You would hardly have said Hazard was a top player.
When playing for the national team you surely have to do exactly what the man in charge says, and if that is play an unnatural game to your normal so be it?


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## Kellfire (Jan 25, 2017)

Ferdinand, Cole, Beckham and Terry were all fantastic for England. Definitely world class.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 25, 2017)

Looks like Coutinho has signed a new long terms contract worth reported Â£200k a week and seems he is pretty happy at Liverpool - no release clause added into the contract as well. Barce are sniffing around him as well so will see what they do now


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## Fish (Jan 25, 2017)

I found this interesting and if true and possible, Levy is a very astute businessman, further to that, I heard their was a shortage of crains to hire so he's bought 6, he's already had offers for those crains yielding a Â£3m profit on their original purchase price!

Report. 

At the beginning of this season, I was given a story that seemed so implausible at the time, that had it not been from such an impeccable source I would have dismissed it as nonsense. The story was that Spurs have a secret plan to go into the new stadium next season, yes the 2017/18 season.

I was told, that by the beginning of the season, the project was already 3 months ahead of schedule and that the builders were on massive bonuses to finish the project so that the club could play there the following season.

At the time I kept thinking that it would be impossible to demolish the old stadium and build the remaining third in three months, but every time I have returned to the stadium and seen how advanced the work is, it has played on my mind. Why was it so important that the builders cut the corner out of the North Stand when they would still have 14 months to build the final third of the stadium? Why have the club not signed the contract for next season with Wembley? And why, have the marketing team not begun selling Wembley hospitality packages for next season* to existing executive members, when they have already sold them their seats in the new stadium? *Last season contracts went out in November.



Over the Christmas period, I read up on the construction plans and was intrigued to read that the single tier 17,000 all-seated South Stand will not be a concrete construction as is the rest of the stadium, but a steel construction with a concrete finish. This suggests that it would not only be erected quicker than the rest of the stadium, but could be built independently after the rest of the stadium was built.

Just last week I was talking to a member of Spurs staff and was surprised to hear that they had not been given any information on their roles for next season at Wembley, however, the insider told me that whenever the 2017/18 season is mentioned, the hierarchy always use the term, â€œIf we go to Wembleyâ€, not â€œWhen we goâ€.

As I understand it, should this mild winter continue and the building work continues at its current pace, Tottenham will apply to the Premier League for their opening group of fixures to be played away from home, very much in the same way that Liverpool have this season whilst their new main stand was being constructed and West Ham will next season with the World Athletics taking place at the London Stadium. This will give them enough time to bulldoze the Paxton Road North Stand after the final game of this season and lay the pitch in the new stadium. Tottenham will then play in a horseshoe like stadium whilst the 17,000 all-seater terrace is constructed and other finishes applied to the rest of the stadium. Considering safety aspects the capacity should be around 40,000, some 8,000 more than the current capacity and saving the club around Â£15 million in costs of playing at Wembley.


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## richy (Jan 25, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			I didn't say they were rubbish, just not as good as they were made out to be. My point is that they were made to look better than they actually are by the players around them. Gerrard, Lampard, Beckham, Ferdinand, Terry, A. Cole, Rooney have all been feted as world class but all seven played in the same team and did nothing at international level.

De Bruyne is only 25 and is now starting to show what he is capable of. Torres and Morientes performed for Spain at the highest level, Veron likewise for Argentina. Lukaku is still to prove himself.
		
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Lukaku has been one the best strikers in the premiership in recent years, and that's without him being at a top 6 club


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 25, 2017)

richy said:



			Lukaku has been one the best strikers in the premiership in recent years, and that's without him being at a top 6 club
		
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Get back to the Championship thread Ricky, how rude! Not a top 6 club,? We finished 5th once :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 25, 2017)

Looks like Coutinho's off in the summer, LPool have given him a new contract to guarantee a bigger transfer fee, remember Suarez


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 25, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Looks like Coutinho's off in the summer, LPool have given him a new contract to guarantee a bigger transfer fee, remember Suarez 

Click to expand...

Dream on....  &#128522;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 25, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Dream on....  &#128522;
		
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We'll see :ears:


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## Fish (Jan 25, 2017)

To be honest it's nothing to get overly excited about nowadays when a player extends their contract, I'm not saying this just because it's Coutinho, but we saw an extension with Payet and quite simply contracts are almost worthless now as far as a player committing to the club, if he isn't or becomes unhappy, they go,the contract just ensures the club hopefully gets the right money for them and doesn't lose out on their investment.  

Sad but true IMO.


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## pbrown7582 (Jan 25, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Looks like Coutinho's off in the summer, LPool have given him a new contract to guarantee a bigger transfer fee, remember Suarez 

Click to expand...

:rofl: :rofl:


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 25, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Looks like Coutinho's off in the summer, LPool have given him a new contract to guarantee a bigger transfer fee, remember Suarez 

Click to expand...

Proves the point, if you want the latest news on Liverpool Fc, ask a blue.


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## freddielong (Jan 25, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Thats good to hear ( providing you are not taking the pish)

I remember watching Arsenal beat Liverpool 2-1 in the Littlewoods cup 1987. At that age at least it felt like the World Cup to me. I wonder if the spotty 16 yr olds of today feel the same way as I did back then? Or has it lost any of its magic?
		
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Perry Groves best Arsenal performance.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looks like Coutinho has signed a new long terms contract worth reported Â£200k a week and seems he is pretty happy at Liverpool - no release clause added into the contract as well. Barce are sniffing around him as well so will see what they do now
		
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So he's chose money over winning trophies ðŸ¤”


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 25, 2017)

Fish said:



			To be honest it's nothing to get overly excited about nowadays when a player extends their contract, I'm not saying this just because it's Coutinho, but we saw an extension with Payet and quite simply contracts are almost worthless now as far as a player committing to the club, if he isn't or becomes unhappy, they go,the contract just ensures the club hopefully gets the right money for them and doesn't lose out on their investment.  

Sad but true IMO.
		
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100% agree.

It is pathetic the way all clubs parade these players and their new contracts and the media suck it all up. I have just heard on the radio that Coutinho has committed to Liverpool until 2022. Yeah! Of course he has.

Certainly do not blame any club for protecting themselves but, at least, stop trying to con the fans. And I repeat this is not a dig at Liverpool, any number of clubs have been guilty.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 25, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			100% agree.

It is pathetic the way all clubs parade these players and their new contracts and the media suck it all up. I have just heard on the radio that Coutinho has committed to Liverpool until 2022. Yeah! Of course he has.

Certainly do not blame any club for protecting themselves but, at least, stop trying to con the fans. And I repeat this is not a dig at Liverpool, any number of clubs have been guilty.
		
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Whilst it's hard to trust what footballers say - many times Coutinho has said a lot of positive things about staying at the club, again whilst it's just words and the actions will show more I actually believe Coutinho has no intentions to leave and that's why he has no problems signing a new contract - he has made a lot of noise about being loyal to the club because of what they have done for his career - rare I know in football but he is certainly one person to be taken at face value so don't see any "con" going on. 

Maybe the best way is to just each player on their own separate merits as opposed to blanket judging them


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 25, 2017)

Hull have just sold Snodgrass to Burnley. Their one decent player, their top scorer. Wave the white flag now. Shocking decision if you are a fan.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 25, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Hull have just sold Snodgrass to Burnley. Their one decent player, their top scorer. Wave the white flag now. Shocking decision if you are a fan.
		
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It depends on wether they will spend the cash on 2 players[what was the fee].
I believe he has 9 of the 16 scored however 46 against paints a bigger picture,Snodgrass would not save Hull on his own.

Time will tell of course.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Whilst it's hard to trust what footballers say - many times Coutinho has said a lot of positive things about staying at the club, again whilst it's just words and the actions will show more I actually believe Coutinho has no intentions to leave and that's why he has no problems signing a new contract - he has made a lot of noise about being loyal to the club because of what they have done for his career - rare I know in football but he is certainly one person to be taken at face value so don't see any "con" going on. 

Maybe the best way is to just each player on their own separate merits as opposed to blanket judging them
		
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I bet you still believe in Father Christmas!

These guys are professional footballers not fans. Coutinho has undoubtedly benefited from his time at Liverpool and I'm sure he is appreciative of the effects upon his career.

However, if for example Real Madrid came sniffing around with an offer of 50% more money I  doubt that he would feel himself committed until 2022.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 25, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			100% agree.

It is pathetic the way all clubs parade these players and their new contracts and the media suck it all up. I have just heard on the radio that Coutinho has committed to Liverpool until 2022. Yeah! Of course he has.

Certainly do not blame any club for protecting themselves but, at least, stop trying to con the fans. And I repeat this is not a dig at Liverpool, any number of clubs have been guilty.
		
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Contracts are not worth the paper they are written on as it can work both ways.

However whilst I don't believe he will be there until 2022 it does show a commitment by Liverpool to keep hold of their best players and show other players their intent to build.

Put it this way could Liverpool really afford to let him go that really could of had a negative effect on attracting bigger players.

200k a week though for their best player I would question the quality they can get in looking at what other big clubs are spending on big stars.


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## ger147 (Jan 25, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Contracts are not worth the paper they are written on as it can work both ways.

However whilst I don't believe he will be there until 2022 it does show a commitment by Liverpool to keep hold of their best players and show other players their intent to build.

Put it this way could Liverpool really afford to let him go that really could of had a negative effect on attracting bigger players.

200k a week though for their best player I would question the quality they can get in looking at what other big clubs are spending on big stars.
		
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BBC Sport are reporting Â£150k and that makes him the top earner at Liverpool...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38741844


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 25, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			It depends on wether they will spend the cash on 2 players[what was the fee].
I believe he has 9 of the 16 scored however 46 against paints a bigger picture,Snodgrass would not save Hull on his own.

Time will tell of course.
		
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About Â£10m I believe. What will that buy them? You need goals to stay up. Yes, you need to stop them but without a goalscorer you are far more likely to go down. He scored goals, he made assists. In their position can they afford to lose him? I'm not saying he was world class or even top class but he may be the one player that kept them up and they have just sold him for less than Crystal Palace bid for Sunderlands left back.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 25, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			I bet you still believe in Father Christmas!

These guys are professional footballers not fans. Coutinho has undoubtedly benefited from his time at Liverpool and I'm sure he is appreciative of the effects upon his career.

However, if for example Real Madrid came sniffing around with an offer of 50% more money I  doubt that he would feel himself committed until 2022.
		
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Actually i just think that some footballers you judge them seperately as opposed to being lazy and lumping them all in together. It can happen that some of these players become fans as well as players - Coutinho has been nothing but complimentary about the club - signed numerous contracts to to reaffirm him wanting to stay and hasn't once entertained any overtures to leave been the model player and along with his friends at the club has enjoyed himself along with his family. 

Coutinho might not be at the Club until 2022 he could leave before but then again he could stay longer - but right now I believe he sees himself staying at the club for as long as possible. I know loyalty is prob non existent for you but I still think there as the odd decent player around


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## pokerjoke (Jan 25, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			About Â£10m I believe. What will that buy them? You need goals to stay up. Yes, you need to stop them but without a goalscorer you are far more likely to go down. He scored goals, he made assists. In their position can they afford to lose him? I'm not saying he was world class or even top class but he may be the one player that kept them up and they have just sold him for less than Crystal Palace bid for Sunderlands left back.
		
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I agree with what your saying but only time will tell and who knows what the clubs plans are.
I suppose proper Hull fans would have liked to see a few quality additions and a fight to stay in the PL but without knowing what the clubs plans are its difficult.

Maybe they are struggling financially and are finding the PL to big for them.
I'm speculating of course.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 25, 2017)

ger147 said:



			BBC Sport are reporting Â£150k and that makes him the top earner at Liverpool...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38741844

Click to expand...

Do you honestly think I'm going to believe that LP said 200k so it must be right,unless of course its all made up.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Actually i just think that some footballers you judge them seperately as opposed to being lazy and lumping them all in together. It can happen that some of these players become fans as well as players - Coutinho has been nothing but complimentary about the club - signed numerous contracts to to reaffirm him wanting to stay and hasn't once entertained any overtures to leave been the model player and along with his friends at the club has enjoyed himself along with his family. 

Coutinho might not be at the Club until 2022 he could leave before but then again he could stay longer - but right now I believe he sees himself staying at the club for as long as possible. I know loyalty is prob non existent for you but I still think there as the odd decent player around
		
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Of course you do !

He plays for your club so you want to believe it. I just think we have seen far too many instances of both players and clubs ignoring the length of contract once it suits them.

It has absolutely nothing whatsoever with a player being "decent" since as I have said before they and their advisers will base their decisions on what is right for the player's career not the club and certainly not the fans. 

The professional game is a job, nothing more and nothing less and all of us make our calls from personal perspectives not from the employer (club) or customer (fans).


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 25, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			I agree with what your saying but only time will tell and who knows what the clubs plans are.
I suppose proper Hull fans would have liked to see a few quality additions and a fight to stay in the PL but without knowing what the clubs plans are its difficult.

Maybe they are struggling financially and are finding the PL to big for them.
I'm speculating of course.
		
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I think you are right and maybe they are just planning for the Championship next year. After all Bruce left pre-season because he could see what was happening and didn't want to get tarnished by it. Phelan should have been smarter and declined the job. I just feel for Hull fans as you want to see everyone fighting to stay up and selling your best player sends out all the wrong signals.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 25, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			I didn't say they were rubbish, just not as good as they were made out to be. My point is that they were made to look better than they actually are by the players around them. Gerrard, Lampard, Beckham, Ferdinand, Terry, A. Cole, Rooney have all been feted as world class but all seven played in the same team and did nothing at international level.

De Bruyne is only 25 and is now starting to show what he is capable of. Torres and Morientes performed for Spain at the highest level, Veron likewise for Argentina. Lukaku is still to prove himself.
		
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You said that playing with other great players, even you would look good. No doubt playing with good players normally elevates the team and the player, but not to 5 times the players abilities.

Gerrard played with great players and rubbish players, he still stood out.

Torres played with overall better players at Chelsea, but he was a worse player than what he was at Liverpool. Morientes was great for Real and Spain, but not so great for us.

Lukaku has proved himself as a great player.

England have has worls class players, just because they haven't won the big trophies doesn't mean some of the players haven't been world class. They haven't had a world class manager though.

Other things such as tactics, team shape, role, also have a part to play.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 25, 2017)

Fish said:



			I found this interesting and if true and possible, Levy is a very astute businessman, further to that, I heard their was a shortage of crains to hire so he's bought 6, he's already had offers for those crains yielding a Â£3m profit on their original purchase price!

Report. 

At the beginning of this season, I was given a story that seemed so implausible at the time, that had it not been from such an impeccable source I would have dismissed it as nonsense. The story was that Spurs have a secret plan to go into the new stadium next season, yes the 2017/18 season.

I was told, that by the beginning of the season, the project was already 3 months ahead of schedule and that the builders were on massive bonuses to finish the project so that the club could play there the following season.

At the time I kept thinking that it would be impossible to demolish the old stadium and build the remaining third in three months, but every time I have returned to the stadium and seen how advanced the work is, it has played on my mind. Why was it so important that the builders cut the corner out of the North Stand when they would still have 14 months to build the final third of the stadium? Why have the club not signed the contract for next season with Wembley? And why, have the marketing team not begun selling Wembley hospitality packages for next season* to existing executive members, when they have already sold them their seats in the new stadium? *Last season contracts went out in November.



Over the Christmas period, I read up on the construction plans and was intrigued to read that the single tier 17,000 all-seated South Stand will not be a concrete construction as is the rest of the stadium, but a steel construction with a concrete finish. This suggests that it would not only be erected quicker than the rest of the stadium, but could be built independently after the rest of the stadium was built.

Just last week I was talking to a member of Spurs staff and was surprised to hear that they had not been given any information on their roles for next season at Wembley, however, the insider told me that whenever the 2017/18 season is mentioned, the hierarchy always use the term, â€œIf we go to Wembleyâ€, not â€œWhen we goâ€.

As I understand it, should this mild winter continue and the building work continues at its current pace, Tottenham will apply to the Premier League for their opening group of fixures to be played away from home, very much in the same way that Liverpool have this season whilst their new main stand was being constructed and West Ham will next season with the World Athletics taking place at the London Stadium. This will give them enough time to bulldoze the Paxton Road North Stand after the final game of this season and lay the pitch in the new stadium. Tottenham will then play in a horseshoe like stadium whilst the 17,000 all-seater terrace is constructed and other finishes applied to the rest of the stadium. Considering safety aspects the capacity should be around 40,000, some 8,000 more than the current capacity and saving the club around Â£15 million in costs of playing at Wembley.
		
Click to expand...

Good piece. 

When did they start the construction, only a year or so ago? Amazing if they get it all built within 2 years, although as we know its the fitting out that takes the time, but you can always have burger vans within the perimeter whilst the food stalls are built.

It wouldn't surprise me with Levy, very astute.


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## freddielong (Jan 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Whilst it's hard to trust what footballers say - many times Coutinho has said a lot of positive things about staying at the club, again whilst it's just words and the actions will show more I actually believe Coutinho has no intentions to leave and that's why he has no problems signing a new contract - he has made a lot of noise about being loyal to the club because of what they have done for his career - rare I know in football but he is certainly one person to be taken at face value so don't see any "con" going on. 

Maybe the best way is to just each player on their own separate merits as opposed to blanket judging them
		
Click to expand...

You really are something else, how is it I can mark this post incase it's needed at a future date.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 25, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			About Â£10m I believe. What will that buy them? You need goals to stay up. Yes, you need to stop them but without a goalscorer you are far more likely to go down. He scored goals, he made assists. In their position can they afford to lose him? I'm not saying he was world class or even top class but he may be the one player that kept them up and they have just sold him for less than Crystal Palace bid for Sunderlands left back.
		
Click to expand...

Just buy Colchester Fc off golf monthly forum, then put a few decent players round him.

joking!


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 25, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Contracts are not worth the paper they are written on as it can work both ways.

However whilst I don't believe he will be there until 2022 it does show a commitment by Liverpool to keep hold of their best players and show other players their intent to build.

Put it this way could Liverpool really afford to let him go that really could of had a negative effect on attracting bigger players.

200k a week though for their best player I would question the quality they can get in looking at what other big clubs are spending on big stars.
		
Click to expand...

Bang on.

Mickie isn't wrong, but if he signs a new long term contract.

A. The player gets a big pay rise.

B. The club has a better negotiating stance, if Barca and Real come in.

C. If no release clause, it also strengthens their stance.

D. For the time being, we keep a great player.

TBH If he stayed this and next season and we won nothing, i could blame him if he looked elsewhere. it would just be how he "manages" the exit, that makes a big difference.


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## pbrown7582 (Jan 25, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			About Â£10m I believe. What will that buy them? You need goals to stay up. Yes, you need to stop them but without a goalscorer you are far more likely to go down. He scored goals, he made assists. In their position can they afford to lose him? I'm not saying he was world class or even top class but he may be the one player that kept them up and they have just sold him for less than Crystal Palace bid for Sunderlands left back.
		
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Hull's whole season has been a joke from starting with not enough players not trying to strength not shirts in club shop there is an endless amount of faults and selling Snodgrass just about top the lot. There only creative player and majority of goals, they have just surrendered but knowing parachute money is on the way ala Blackpool!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jan 25, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Bang on.

Mickie isn't wrong, but if he signs a new long term contract.

A. The player gets a big pay rise.

B. The club has a better negotiating stance, if Barca and Real come in.

C. If no release clause, it also strengthens their stance.

D. For the time being, we keep a great player.

TBH If he stayed this and next season and we won nothing, i could blame him if he looked elsewhere. it would just be how he "manages" the exit, that makes a big difference.
		
Click to expand...

A, B, C, & D. I agree with you LB.

In no way was my post critical of Liverpool other than the marketing hype and, as I said, many other clubs are equally if not more guilty.

As you say the club have been very clever in their negotiating and have undoubtedly strengthened their hand. However, I still do not think Coutinho sees himself as committed until 2022 and, for that matter, neither do I think the club believe he is.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 25, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			A, B, C, & D. I agree with you LB.

In no way was my post critical of Liverpool other than the marketing hype and, as I said, many other clubs are equally if not more guilty.

As you say the club have been very clever in their negotiating and have undoubtedly strengthened their hand. However, I still do not think Coutinho sees himself as committed until 2022 and, for that matter, neither do I think the club believe he is.
		
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Yep, if I was a betting man, I wouldn't bet on it either.:thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 25, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Proves the point, if you want the latest news on Liverpool Fc, ask a blue.
		
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Unfortunately LP posted before me :ears:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 25, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Bang on.

Mickie isn't wrong, but if he signs a new long term contract.

A. The player gets a big pay rise.

B. The club has a better negotiating stance, if Barca and Real come in.

C. If no release clause, it also strengthens their stance.

D. For the time being, we keep a great player.

TBH If he stayed this and next season and we won nothing, i could blame him if he looked elsewhere. it would just be how he "manages" the exit, that makes a big difference.
		
Click to expand...

Great post, Coutinho is superb imo and would improve any and I mean improve any Football Club, makes absolute sense to tie him down, slight issue is that the new contract doesn't come into effect until 01 Jul, so a big offer could come in prior to that.

I would add to your post that it sends out the right message for the Club and its fans.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Actually i just think that some footballers you judge them seperately as opposed to being lazy and lumping them all in together. It can happen that some of these players become fans as well as players - Coutinho has been nothing but complimentary about the club - signed numerous contracts to to reaffirm him wanting to stay and hasn't once entertained any overtures to leave been the model player and along with his friends at the club has enjoyed himself along with his family. 

Coutinho might not be at the Club until 2022 he could leave before but then again he could stay longer - but right now I believe he sees himself staying at the club for as long as possible. I know loyalty is prob non existent for you but I still think there as the odd decent player around
		
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Forum Gold, you went on another thread saying we shouldn't of been allowed a vote on Brexit as we don't understand the issues and now you reply to another post saying it's lazy lumping people together :blah::blah::rofl:

Can someone please repost this as PlaygroundPhil has me on ignore


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## Papas1982 (Jan 25, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Forum Gold, you went on another thread saying we shouldn't of been allowed a vote on Brexit as we don't understand the issues and now you reply to another post saying it's lazy lumping people together :blah::blah::rofl:

Can someone please repost this as PlaygroundPhil has me on ignore
		
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Standard forum rules dictate that separate threads can't be used to prove your hypocrisy. 

Havent you you read the t's and c's?


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## Hobbit (Jan 25, 2017)

Where's Fish when you want him?

Fish, *FISH! 

*Seeing as you're in Middlesbrough on Saturday do you fancy the FA Cup game, Boro 'v' Accrington Stanley? There's still tickets available...


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 25, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Just buy Colchester Fc off golf monthly forum, then put a few decent players round him.

joking!

Click to expand...

That's a brilliant idea. Â£10 million transfer fee for me will be ok as they already have that. Not sure where they will get the Â£500 million they'll need to bring in Pogba, Sanchez, Coutinho, Hazard and a couple of others to make me look good.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 25, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			That's a brilliant idea. Â£10 million transfer fee for me will be ok as they already have that. Not sure where they will get the Â£500 million they'll need to bring in Pogba, Sanchez, Coutinho, Hazard and a couple of others to make me look good.
		
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:thup:

What about my agent cut?


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## JCW (Jan 25, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Michael or Thomas are nice boys names.
		
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Brenda , good girls name , boy could be Mario , really cracker that ..................EYG


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## davemc1 (Jan 25, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			You said that playing with other great players, even you would look good. No doubt playing with good players normally elevates the team and the player, but not to 5 times the players abilities.

Gerrard played with great players and rubbish players, he still stood out.

Torres played with overall better players at Chelsea, but he was a worse player than what he was at Liverpool. Morientes was great for Real and Spain, but not so great for us.

Lukaku has proved himself as a great player.

England have has worls class players, just because they haven't won the big trophies doesn't mean some of the players haven't been world class. They haven't had a world class manager though.

Other things such as tactics, team shape, role, also have a part to play.
		
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I hope you forgot about Capello when you say England havnt had a worldie manager. Right up there with the best in my book :thup:


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 25, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



:thup:

What about my agent cut?
		
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If you can convince Hull to sign me for Â£10 million I will split any signing bonus and weekly wages wages with you 50/50. :thup:


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## Hobbit (Jan 25, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			I hope you forgot about Capello when you say England havnt had a worldie manager. Right up there with the best in my book :thup:
		
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must resist... must not agree...

I'd also say there's never been anywhere close to 11 world class players at anyone time. Always had a few weak links in the squad, which are exposed as soon as there's an injury.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 25, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			I hope you forgot about Capello when you say England havnt had a worldie manager. Right up there with the best in my book :thup:
		
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He wasnt given long enough.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 25, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			If you can convince Hull to sign me for Â£10 million I will split any signing bonus and weekly wages wages with you 50/50. :thup:
		
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I'd want 20 million to live in 'Ull.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 25, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			I hope you forgot about Capello when you say England havnt had a worldie manager. Right up there with the best in my book :thup:
		
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Shurrup.....I'm getting my coat on......


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## JCW (Jan 25, 2017)

I feel Chelsea next 2 games vs Liverpool & Arsenal will decide the title race , lose both and it will open things up but they could still go on and win , but if they win both then the rest will be playing for 2nd , 3rd and 4th place .............................EYG


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## Slime (Jan 25, 2017)

JCW said:



			I feel Chelsea next 2 games vs Liverpool & Arsenal will decide the title race , lose both and it will open things up but they could still go on and win , but *if they win both then the rest will be playing for 2nd , 3rd and 4th place* .............................EYG
		
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I think they already are!


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## Fish (Jan 25, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Where's Fish when you want him?

Fish, *FISH! 

*Seeing as you're in Middlesbrough on Saturday do you fancy the FA Cup game, Boro 'v' Accrington Stanley? There's still tickets available...
		
Click to expand...

I'll let you know tomorrow, I need to look at my times as I was looking to do an appointment in Nottingham on the way up. 

Who would I be supporting &#129300;


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## Papas1982 (Jan 25, 2017)

hurray!

i thought we were playing Utd at old Trafford with Howard Webb in the middle these first 10 mins.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 25, 2017)

Well, this is only gonna end in pain for us!


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 25, 2017)

Biggest chances gone to the away side so far. Liverpool look a little flat


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## Papas1982 (Jan 25, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Biggest chances gone to the away side so far. Liverpool look a little flat
		
Click to expand...

Please expand and tell me you think they'll (pool) win. Need your curse to help us lol


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## fundy (Jan 25, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Please expand and tell me you think they'll (pool) win. Need your curse to help us lol
		
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asking him for the curse is just gonna destroy it for all of us, let it happen naturally


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 25, 2017)

What's happened to Sturridge? 
Did Suarez make him & Stirling appear to be better than they are because the opposition defenders were concentrating on him so much?


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## Tarkus1212 (Jan 25, 2017)

Fish said:



			I found this interesting and if true and possible, Levy is a very astute businessman, further to that, I heard their was a shortage of crains to hire so he's bought 6, he's already had offers for those crains yielding a Â£3m profit on their original purchase price!

..
		
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There is indeed a shortage of cranes for hire at the moment. A major reason is that one of the big players, Hewdens, has gone into receivership and all of their cranes are currently sitting idle in yards all over the country. Mr Levy is indeed a very astute businessman and wealthy for a very good reason.


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## pbrown7582 (Jan 25, 2017)

:whoo:


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## Papas1982 (Jan 25, 2017)

Yes it was a penalty. 

But as all all fans of big teams say. 

They even themselves over a season......


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 25, 2017)

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## JCW (Jan 25, 2017)

Jurgen Flop 2nd best yet again , 90 % of the ball and still lose , talksport be full of Liverpool fans blaming everything , beat Chelsea next , no chance playing like this , come on the saints .......................EYG


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 25, 2017)

Booooom get in Southampton 6/1 doubled up with Leeds :whoo: :whoo:
Liverpool really are pants :rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Tashyboy (Jan 25, 2017)

Oops.

No doubt it's a crap cup anyway


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## Slime (Jan 25, 2017)

Over the two legs the better team definitely went through to the final.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 25, 2017)

Having seen that tonight, Liverpool won't win anything with Sturridge upfront. Total rubbish. That said, Southampton rode some luck, but took the goal well.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 25, 2017)

But isn't that Klopp a character &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Papas1982 (Jan 25, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Having seen that tonight, Liverpool won't win anything with Sturridge upfront. Total rubbish. That said, Southampton rode some luck, but took the goal well.
		
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Some luck?

i accept it was a pen. 

But on chances we we could have won both legs comfortably by half time. 

Agree re sturridge. He just doesn't fit their style at all.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 25, 2017)

Tarkus1212 said:



			There is indeed a shortage of cranes for hire at the moment. A major reason is that one of the big players, Hewdens, has gone into receivership and all of their cranes are currently sitting idle in yards all over the country. Mr Levy is indeed a very astute businessman and wealthy for a very good reason.
		
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How can there be a shortage, every time I drive up the M1 to watch City, there's half a dozen at the side of the M1 top side Sheffiled and the only thing they have done in four years is stick a Christmas tree up it, at er Christmas. &#128513;


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 25, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Some luck?

i accept it was a pen. 

But on chances we we could have won both legs comfortably by half time. 

Agree re sturridge. He just doesn't fit their style at all.
		
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Def a penalty and keeper got lucky but do Saints fans care. Wemberleeeeeeeee


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 25, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Some luck?

i accept it was a pen. 

But on chances we we could have won both legs comfortably by half time. 

Agree re sturridge. He just doesn't fit their style at all.
		
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I thought Long was lucky as that was a pen for me, I thought Origi made a meal of it and threw himself.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 25, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Some luck?

i accept it was a pen. 

But on chances we we could have won both legs comfortably by half time. 

Agree re sturridge. He just doesn't fit their style at all.
		
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Having seen Sturridge at City then Chelsea and now Liverpool the only style that Sturridge fits is his own. He is a one footed over rated trick pony.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 25, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Yes it was a penalty. 

But as all all fans of big teams say. 

They even themselves over a season......
		
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Yes it was a penalty 

No they don't even themselves out over the season 

But Southampton played well over the two legs and tonight defended superbly - good luck in the final :thup:


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## sawtooth (Jan 25, 2017)

Does Klopp have a plan b?

If out-running teams doesn't work they really struggle.

They need less intensity and more quality.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 25, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Having seen Sturridge at City then Chelsea and now Liverpool the only style that Sturridge fits is his own. He is a one footed over rated trick pony.
		
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100% accurate.


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## Fish (Jan 25, 2017)

I think I might have a Wolves Saints double on Saturday &#128540;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 25, 2017)

No pen for Carra, that's gospel :whoo:


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## Papas1982 (Jan 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes it was a penalty 

No they don't even themselves out over the season 

But Southampton played well over the two legs and tonight defended superbly - good luck in the final :thup:
		
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I agree that they don't.  Was a sarcastic comment as a fan of a smaller club who imo do generally get the raw deal. 

That said, with carragher not giving it. I'll sleep easier. 

got a feeling quite a few neutral may prefer us to win lol


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## Papas1982 (Jan 25, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Def a penalty and keeper got lucky but do Saints fans care. Wemberleeeeeeeee
		
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Id like to think it was a great second save.

if it had gone in, imo that would have been luck for Liverpool. 

Come on hull!


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## JCW (Jan 25, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Oops.

No doubt it's a crap cup anyway
		
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mickey mouse cup , get it right , LP calls it that and Liverpool cant even win that , win the league , yeah only if Chelsea get lost in the Bemuda triangle .....................EYG


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 25, 2017)

Said it the other week, Klopp gives a great, very honest interview, a lot of managers could learn from him.

Still sticks in the throat though


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## Papas1982 (Jan 25, 2017)

JCW said:



			mickey mouse cup , get it right , LP calls it that and Liverpool cant even win that , win the league , yeah only if Chelsea get lost in the Bemuda triangle .....................EYG
		
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 I really do like Klopp. 

Wven when hen he has a bit of a strop he entertains me.


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## JCW (Jan 25, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I really do like Klopp. 

Wven when hen he has a bit of a strop he entertains me.
		
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Yeah agree , they need a centreback , striker and goalie , he dive out of the way of the ball , I thought he could have done better by staying on his feet not dive to cover to the left and the ball going to the right , check it for yourselfs .....................EYG


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## Slime (Jan 25, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Some luck?

*i accept it was a pen. 
*
But on chances we we could have won both legs comfortably by half time. 

Agree re sturridge. He just doesn't fit their style at all.
		
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Not for me ....................... and not for Carra.
He even thinks that Liverpool could be in trouble as it appears that they're running out of steam.
I'm actually warming to Carra, despite his 'fingernails down a blackboard' voice .


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## Fish (Jan 25, 2017)

Carra being honest, no pen, thinks they've run out of energy, team selection questionable, not a good enough bench or squad, says when Sturidge doesn't score there playing with 10 men as he adds or brings nothing else to the team! 

Looks like there isn't a plan B, will be interesting to see how they react and how many players get rested on Saturday or if he plays a full strength team against Wolves to build confidence, but what if..... ....


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## sawtooth (Jan 25, 2017)

Slime said:



			Not for me ....................... and not for Carra.
He even thinks that Liverpool could be in trouble as it appears that they're running out of steam.
I'm actually warming to Carra, despite his 'fingernails down a blackboard' voice .
		
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I've said for a while that I didn't think Liverpool could maintain their high intensity for the season. Fatigue over 90 mins and injuries over the season will inevitably start taking its toll. Might be OK in Germany where it's not as competitive.

1 win in 7, a chance to bounce back in style against Chelsea or will they pile more misery on Klopp?


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## SaintHacker (Jan 25, 2017)

:whoo::whoo::whoo::whoo:


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## SaintHacker (Jan 25, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Def a penalty
		
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Which one? The Long handball I thought was probably a pen, however we got nothing in the first half when Lovren tried undressing Yoshida in the box. The Origi/Stephens one was never a pen, even Carragher said so.


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## JCW (Jan 25, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I've said for a while that I didn't think Liverpool could maintain their high intensity for the season. Fatigue over 90 mins and injuries over the season will inevitably start taking its toll. Might be OK in Germany where it's not as competitive.

1 win in 7, a chance to bounce back in style against Chelsea or will they pile more misery on Klopp?
		
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spot on , pep is getting found out too , one thing pressing in mickey mouse leagues in Germany and spain where there are only a few teams of standard unlike the premire league where you need to press for 90 mins and 38 plus games .....................EYG


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 25, 2017)

Fish said:



			Carra being honest, no pen, thinks they've run out of energy, team selection questionable, not a good enough bench or squad, says when Sturidge doesn't score there playing with 10 men as he adds or brings nothing else to the team! 

Looks like there isn't a plan B, will be interesting to see how they react and how many players get rested on Saturday or if he plays a full strength team against Wolves to build confidence, but what if..... ....
		
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just got home and agree 100% with this .

Problem is most fans at game know this as well

Sturridge is very poor should be standing in club shop window for his movement is dire . But to be fair the service is not there had some half chances but Sanchez / Aguero would slot one of them.

must blame Klopp as well 75 mins of mediocre before he changed anything.

could still be playing now and still not scored.

80% possession means nothing if you don't score.

Thought Saints were more likely to get one you could see it coming.

To be honest we got what we deserved they played very well and deserved to win over the two games.

Good luck in the final you deserve to be there never conceded all the way that's impressive.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 25, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			just got home and agree 100% with this .

Problem is most fans at game know this as well

Sturridge is very poor should be standing in club shop window for his movement is dire . But to be fair the service is not there had some half chances but Sanchez / Aguero would slot one of them.

must blame Klopp as well 75 mins of mediocre before he changed anything.

could still be playing now and still not scored.

80% possession means nothing if you don't score.

Thought Saints were more likely to get one you could see it coming.

To be honest we got what we deserved they played very well and deserved to win over the two games.

Good luck in the final you deserve to be there never conceded all the way that's impressive.
		
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Do we have to file our match reports in order......

Saints deserved it over both legs. Great defensively, and had the best chances on the break in both legs. We were lucky to go in 0-0, had some good chances in the 2nd half, but didnt go our way.

I thought Romeu was great for them, MOM.

I'm no gonna throw the baby out with the bath water, ok, its turned into a long blip, but over the last 5-6 weeks we've had Coutinho, Matip, Henderson, Mane out at times, so the spine of our team. We have 17-18 good enough players, but thats not enough to compete in 3 or even 4 comps at the top end, you need 22 minimum, and once we have 2-3 injuries our bench suffers.

The yanks need to dip deep into their pockets, and Jurgen needs to realise you cant improve everyone with coaching, and bring loads of kids in in one go. Sometimes you just have to go out and buy the finished article.

Stuey's nearer the ground, so cant believe he's late with his report........


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## Papas1982 (Jan 25, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Do we have to file our match reports in order......

Saints deserved it over both legs. Great defensively, and had the best chances on the break in both legs. We were lucky to go in 0-0, had some good chances in the 2nd half, but didnt go our way.

I thought Romeu was great for them, MOM.

I'm no gonna throw the baby out with the bath water, ok, its turned into a long blip, but over the last 5-6 weeks we've had Coutinho, Matip, Henderson, Mane out at times, so the spine of our team. We have 17-18 good enough players, but thats not enough to compete in 3 or even 4 comps at the top end, you need 22 minimum, and once we have 2-3 injuries our bench suffers.

The yanks need to dip deep into their pockets, and Jurgen needs to realise you cant improve everyone with coaching, and bring loads of kids in in one go. Sometimes you just have to go out and buy the finished article.

Stuey's nearer the ground, so cant believe he's late with his report........
		
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You can have sims and ward prowse (both skates). Double deal Â£40m?

at least now you don't need to worry about being distracted from golf in Kent come Feb......ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 25, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			You can have sims and ward prowse (both skates). Double deal Â£40m?

at least now you don't need to worry about being distracted from golf in Kent come Feb......ï˜‚ï˜‚
		
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Make it Van Dijk and Forster, and I'll even give you 55 mill, plus Colchester FC in a player/cash swap deal.

Sound, I wanted to play Princes on the Sunday anyway........


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## richy (Jan 26, 2017)

Only Liverpool could take Â£100mil worth of Southampton players and still fail to beat them


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## richy (Jan 26, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Get back to the Championship thread Ricky, how rude! Not a top 6 club,? We finished 5th once :rofl:
		
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So did we and everyone else lost their minds and thought Pardew should be the next England manager. 

Now how did that turn out again?


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## sawtooth (Jan 26, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			... but over the last 5-6 weeks we've had Coutinho, Matip, Henderson, Mane out at times, so the spine of our team. We have 17-18 good enough players, but thats not enough to compete in 3 or even 4 comps at the top end, you need 22 minimum, and once we have 2-3 injuries ..
		
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Quality Manager, doing well, unlucky with injuries , but can see the great work that manager is doing, ....

Welcome to my world.&#128512;


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 26, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Said it the other week, Klopp gives a great, very honest interview, a lot of managers could learn from him.

Still sticks in the throat though 

Click to expand...

What was the interview before the game all about? 
He looked like he'd been smoking something.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 26, 2017)

Very impressed with Southampton over the 2 legs and especially Redmond last night in the first half he was superb and definitely an England future star.
Missed the first 2 minutes of the 2nd half and he had been put to right midfield and was pegged back by Lallana and the threat was gone but I suspect Rodriguez was injured and the manager had to change.

I also think by the sounds from the fans last night Sturridge is on borrowed time but Origi is no where near the answer.

I'm expecting a win tonight so a good open final beckons.

I believe Klopp has to take the blame as his style of play doesn't suit the English game his chase everything down and press high has really tired his players out and I said previously I think will come 6th in the league purely for this reason.

The cheque book needs to come out bigtime and he needs backing from the powers that be.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 26, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Do we have to file our match reports in order......

Saints deserved it over both legs. Great defensively, and had the best chances on the break in both legs. We were lucky to go in 0-0, had some good chances in the 2nd half, but didnt go our way.

I thought Romeu was great for them, MOM.

I'm no gonna throw the baby out with the bath water, ok, its turned into a long blip, but over the last 5-6 weeks we've had Coutinho, Matip, Henderson, Mane out at times, so the spine of our team. We have 17-18 good enough players, but thats not enough to compete in 3 or even 4 comps at the top end, you need 22 minimum, and once we have 2-3 injuries our bench suffers.

The yanks need to dip deep into their pockets, and Jurgen needs to realise you cant improve everyone with coaching, and bring loads of kids in in one go. Sometimes you just have to go out and buy the finished article.

Stuey's nearer the ground, so cant believe he's late with his report........
		
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Certainly no need for any panic -

Missing Mane clearly shows - he provides pace , width and creativity and without him it all gets too narrow and congested in the middle - the only person providing width was the young right back who again was superb but needed help. I'm surprised he hasn't given someone like Ojo a go - he certainly provides pace and width and defiantly need to look at the market - still trying to get that Pulisic from Dortmund , there is money there to spend - guess Klopp wants to make sure if is getting the right player.

Certainly no need for panic stations - it's a dip in form which expect to recover from , good to see Matip back , Coutinho back , need Mane back 

And time to cut losses with Sturridge - he just doesn't offer enough and not putting away the chances when they come 

Long way to go yet - you would think we were languishing in middle table getting knocked out of cups in the first round


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## sawtooth (Jan 26, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Certainly no need for any panic -

Missing Mane clearly shows - he provides pace , width and creativity and without him it all gets too narrow and congested in the middle - the only person providing width was the young right back who again was superb but needed help. I'm surprised he hasn't given someone like Ojo a go - he certainly provides pace and width and defiantly need to look at the market - still trying to get that Pulisic from Dortmund , there is money there to spend - guess Klopp wants to make sure if is getting the right player.

Certainly no need for panic stations - it's a dip in form which expect to recover from , good to see Matip back , Coutinho back , need Mane back 

And time to cut losses with Sturridge - he just doesn't offer enough and not putting away the chances when they come 

Long way to go yet - you would think we were languishing in middle table getting knocked out of cups in the first round
		
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As long as you are still progressing &#128512;


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 26, 2017)

Heard on the radio yesterday that Liverpool haven't won a game this season when Mane hasn't been playing. How much longer is he away at the ACON for?


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## Beezerk (Jan 26, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And time to cut losses with Sturridge - he just doesn't offer enough and not putting away the chances when they come
		
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Could have sworn you were singing his praises in another thread not too long ago, anyway I digress.
If Liverpool had cut their losses on him last summer, when it was fairly clear he gave nothing to the team, and invested in a top notch striker, Liverpool would be sitting pretty at the top of the league and in a cup final, albeit a toy town cup &#128521;


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 26, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Heard on the radio yesterday that Liverpool haven't won a game this season when Mane hasn't been playing. How much longer is he away at the ACON for?
		
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The final isn't until the 5th Feb so could be away until then if Senegal get there - hopefully they lose the QF. Don't think many expected him to be such a crucial player for us but he imo is up there with Coutinho


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## Tashyboy (Jan 26, 2017)

Re Sturridge, City got rid coz he wanted a similar wage to the established stars ie Silva, Tevez etc. World class players, World Cup winners. He had just come out of the academy and scored a few goals. He was told to get lost and sold to Chelsea. Have followed his career closely and quite frankly, yeah he can be good on his day but never great and never on a regular basis. Bottom line, over rated.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 26, 2017)

Mane is in his first season and will disappear once settled, just like the Saints fans warned, Sturridge is no good anymore :rofl: he was the answer! 
No one is hitting panic buttons at Anfield, just giving homest assesments which some fans can't grasp.
Weird how normally every word of Carraghers is hung upon when positive but the silence speaks volumes


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## Tashyboy (Jan 26, 2017)

JCW said:



			spot on , pep is getting found out too , one thing pressing in mickey mouse leagues in Germany and spain where there are only a few teams of standard unlike the premire league where you need to press for 90 mins and 38 plus games .....................EYG
		
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Pep is not getting found out, his players are getting found out. Like Zabaleta, otamendi, Sagna, Bravo. To name but a few. Bravo, don't get me started.
Also some of the referees we have had have been found out. An all to repetitive theme on this blog week after week. We Have battered teams this year and come away with one point Everton ( two pens missed) Boro, Battered Chelsea, but could not find the net, battered Spuds we know what happened there That's nine points off the top of my head. That's not finding Pep out, that's him finding out about his players.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 26, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Very impressed with Southampton over the 2 legs and especially Redmond last night in the first half he was superb and definitely an England future star.
Missed the first 2 minutes of the 2nd half and he had been put to right midfield and was pegged back by Lallana and the threat was gone but I suspect Rodriguez was injured and the manager had to change.

I also think by the sounds from the fans last night Sturridge is on borrowed time but Origi is no where near the answer.

I'm expecting a win tonight so a good open final beckons.

I believe Klopp has to take the blame as his style of play doesn't suit the English game his chase everything down and press high has really tired his players out and I said previously I think will come 6th in the league purely for this reason.

The cheque book needs to come out bigtime and he needs backing from the powers that be.
		
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Redmond won't get anywhere near the England team imo. He plays as part of a final 3 as he couldn't play in the middle like lallana for example. And his finishing is abysmal. For all the talk of his fantastic play. If we'd gone out it would have been down to the first leg when he missed countless chances. Don't get me wrong, he's a good outball and fine for us in the league. But I certainly wouldn't want to see him in an England shirt unless he improves massively.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 26, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Pep is not getting found out, his players are getting found out. Like Zabaleta, otamendi, Sagna, Bravo. To name but a few. Bravo, don't get me started.
Also some of the referees we have had have been found out. An all to repetitive theme on this blog week after week. We Have battered teams this year and come away with one point Everton ( two pens missed) Boro, Battered Chelsea, but could not find the net, battered Spuds we know what happened there That's nine points off the top of my head. That's not finding Pep out, that's him finding out about his players.
		
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Pep biught bravo. And those same players have won the league previously. Somwhilst long term pep may be able to buy enough players to fit his style. With the stars you have, some of your performances have been shocking. All well and good blaming refs, but your defending at times has been poor, as has discipline. If pep was the messiah he's been built up to in world football, then he'd be able to accept if players couldn't play his way and find a system that works whilst he brings more players in.


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## freddielong (Jan 26, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The final isn't until the 5th Feb so could be away until then if Senegal get there - hopefully they lose the QF. Don't think many expected him to be such a crucial player for us but he imo is up there with Coutinho
		
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You need pace upfront to create space for the passers to exploit, it is what happens to Arsenal when Giroud plays upfront, defenders know the ball over the top or into the channel isn't going to happen so they can close out the space.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 26, 2017)

From this thread there must be some people who never miss a Liverpool game on the telly.

#The entertainers


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## sawtooth (Jan 26, 2017)

Imagine if the Wenger out brigade got their way a couple of years ago. What would Arsenal be like now under Pep or Klopp? 

Careful what you wish for because Wenger ain't all that bad really and the grass is not always greener.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 26, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Imagine if the Wenger out brigade got their way a couple of years ago. What would Arsenal be like now under Pep or Klopp? 

Careful what you wish for because Wenger ain't all that bad really and the grass is not always greener.
		
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At arsenal, pep would have players that suit his style. 

Think hed improve you. 

Klopp or simieone one would struggle as your players aren't their style. 

Of of course you could of got Ranieri, and look what he did.


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## sawtooth (Jan 26, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			At arsenal, pep would have players that suit his style. 

Think hed improve you. 

Klopp or simieone one would struggle as your players aren't their style. 

Of of course you could of got Ranieri, and look what he did.
		
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Yeah Ranieri doing great but don't want to win something one year and be in a relegation battle the next though to be honest.

Wengers consistency is remarkable and we will never see the likes of that again IMO.

Plenty of people were saying that Pep will do wonders due to the players at City, it hasn't happened yet and looks to be going backwards infact.

I like the look of Claude Puel. &#128077;


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## garyinderry (Jan 26, 2017)

I find it amazing that anyone would underestimate how much liverpool would miss Mane while he was out of the team. I heard stuart pearce say as much last night on the radio. 

He is the one real dangerman who looks to drive the team forward and like many top players, rarely has a complete shocker.  

Countinhio can turn a match with a pass but can also have quiet games. Mane's presense is enough to unsettle defences and bring his team mates into the game and put the opposition on the back foot.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 26, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			I find it amazing that anyone would underestimate how much liverpool would miss Mane while he was out of the team. I heard stuart pearce say as much last night on the radio. 

He is the one real dangerman who looks to drive the team forward and like many top players, rarely has a complete shocker.  

Countinhio can turn a match with a pass but can also have quiet games. Mane's presense is enough to unsettle defences and bring his team mates into the game and put the opposition on the back foot.
		
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Then he's only started doing this season, ask the Saints fans, some were shocked at how much they got.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 26, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			From this thread there must be some people who never miss a Liverpool game on the telly.

#The entertainers

Click to expand...

Probably same ones that will sit in an armchair tonight and watch the match and laugh if Utd get beat :ears:


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## Papas1982 (Jan 26, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah Ranieri doing great but don't want to win something one year and be in a relegation battle the next though to be honest.

Wengers consistency is remarkable and we will never see the likes of that again IMO.

Plenty of people were saying that Pep will do wonders due to the players at City, it hasn't happened yet and looks to be going backwards infact.

I like the look of Claude Puel. &#62541;
		
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I and a lot of fans don't particular rate him. He reminds me of Rafa. Rotation and cup runs. But for a league need players to feel confident and he doesn't seem to give them that. That said, if we had a proper striker maybe our league form would pick up. 

Ranieri was tongue  hue in cheek tbh, but without starting the Arsenal cycle off AGAIN. If you're u want to have a chance of winning trophies. Risks sometimes need to be taken, Wenger may win the league again (unlikely imo). Someone new may bring new performance. Of course, they may not. And the Arsenal board spcertinly aren't likely to risk the money of top 4 for someone else.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 26, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Then he's only started doing this season, ask the Saints fans, some were shocked at how much they got.
		
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This!

granted he's missed most of the could by the time he comes back. But it wouldn't have surprised me if he'd vanished  for pool over xmas. 

Currently he looks value for money tbf. But I'd be amazed if he doesn't have a quiet period where fans quiestion his desire and use.


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## Fish (Jan 26, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Wengers consistency is remarkable and we will never see the likes of that again IMO.
		
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Do you have a blow up Wenger that you hump every day :mmm:


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## freddielong (Jan 26, 2017)

Fish said:



			Do you have a blow up Wenger that you hump every day :mmm:
		
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Sorry I am confused are you saying you need to be sexually attracted to someone to be excited by and respect their achievements


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## Doon frae Troon (Jan 26, 2017)

Chelsea after Craig Gordon but Celtic not selling.


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## pbrown7582 (Jan 26, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Probably same ones that will sit in an armchair tonight and watch the match and laugh if Utd get beat :ears:
		
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Oi that's enough of that!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 26, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			Oi that's enough of that!
		
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I wouldn't worry too much, even if you did get beat we'll still see the thread twisted back to Wenger and LPool :rofl:


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## Hobbit (Jan 26, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Wengers consistency is remarkable and we will never see the likes of that again IMO.

&#62541;
		
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You better hope that you will see the like again, or you are coming to the end of your golden era. That said, There's plenty of teams around the world that put in that level of consistency. Celtic, Ranger, Liverpool, Man Utd, PSG, Barca, Real Madrid to name a few.

Can't really name Arsenal in that pool of teams as they've won mountains of stuff and Arsenal have regularly won...... 4th.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 26, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			From this thread there must be some people who never miss a Liverpool game on the telly.

#The entertainers

Click to expand...

If I can I will watch Liverpools games because it keeps the hatred alive,also it will mean I'm not relying on other sources to tell me whats happened,other sources like 5 live,The Sunday times or even worse Souness or Henry so I can come on here and wind the Scousers up.

I must admit though they are entertainers pure comedy gold,keep dreaming the title is only a few decades away


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## sawtooth (Jan 26, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			You better hope that you will see the like again, or you are coming to the end of your golden era. That said, There's plenty of teams around the world that put in that level of consistency. Celtic, Ranger, Liverpool, Man Utd, PSG, Barca, Real Madrid to name a few.

Can't really name Arsenal in that pool of teams as they've won mountains of stuff and Arsenal have regularly won...... 4th.
		
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19 Top 4 finishes Brian,  that's what I am talking about.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 26, 2017)

1 - Liverpool have won just one of their seven games in 2017 so far, their worst start to a calendar year since 1993. Slump.

Got to love a good stat &#128514;


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## jp5 (Jan 26, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			19 Top 4 finishes Brian,  that's what I am talking about.
		
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And Utd have had 17 top 4 finishes over that time, but I reckon all they'll care about is the trophies won in that period.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 26, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			19 Top 4 finishes Brian,  that's what I am talking about.
		
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*Honours

The Football League & Premier League

    First Division (until 1992) and Premier League

    Winners (13): 1930â€“31, 1932â€“33, 1933â€“34, 1934â€“35, 1937â€“38, 1947â€“48, 1952â€“53, 1970â€“71, 1988â€“89, 1990â€“91, 1997â€“98, 2001â€“02, 2003â€“04

    League Cup

    Winners (2): 1986â€“87, 1992â€“93

    Southern Professional Floodlit Cup

    Winners (1): 1958â€“59

    Mercantile Credit Centenary Trophy

    Winners (1): 1988â€“89

The Football Association

    FA Cup

    Winners (12): 1929â€“30, 1935â€“36, 1949â€“50, 1970â€“71, 1978â€“79, 1992â€“93, 1997â€“98, 2001â€“02, 2002â€“03, 2004â€“05, 2013â€“14, 2014â€“15 (shared record)

    FA Community Shield (FA Charity Shield before 2002)

    Winners (14): 1930, 1931, 1933, 1934, 1938, 1948, 1953, 1991 (shared), 1998, 1999, 2002, 2004, 2014, 2015

UEFA

    UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (European Cup Winners' Cup before 1994)

    Winners (1): 1993â€“94

    Inter-Cities Fairs Cup

    Winners (1): 1969â€“70 *

Thats the honours list - is there a trophy in the cabinet for what you are talking about ?


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 26, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			If I can I will watch Liverpools games because it keeps the hatred alive,also it will mean I'm not relying on other sources to tell me whats happened,other sources like 5 live,The Sunday times or even worse Souness or Henry so I can come on here and wind the Scousers up.

I must admit though they are entertainers pure comedy gold,keep dreaming the title is only a few decades away

Click to expand...

I'd rather be defined by what I am, than what I'm not.


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## NWJocko (Jan 26, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Honours

The Football League & Premier League

    First Division (until 1992) and Premier League

    Winners (13): 1930â€“31, 1932â€“33, 1933â€“34, 1934â€“35, 1937â€“38, 1947â€“48, 1952â€“53, 1970â€“71, 1988â€“89, 1990â€“91, 1997â€“98, 2001â€“02, 2003â€“04

    League Cup

    Winners (2): 1986â€“87, 1992â€“93

    Southern Professional Floodlit Cup

    Winners (1): 1958â€“59

    Mercantile Credit Centenary Trophy

    Winners (1): 1988â€“89

The Football Association

    FA Cup

    Winners (12): 1929â€“30, 1935â€“36, 1949â€“50, 1970â€“71, 1978â€“79, 1992â€“93, 1997â€“98, 2001â€“02, 2002â€“03, 2004â€“05, 2013â€“14, 2014â€“15 (shared record)

    FA Community Shield (FA Charity Shield before 2002)

    Winners (14): 1930, 1931, 1933, 1934, 1938, 1948, 1953, 1991 (shared), 1998, 1999, 2002, 2004, 2014, 2015

UEFA

    UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (European Cup Winners' Cup before 1994)

    Winners (1): 1993â€“94

    Inter-Cities Fairs Cup

    Winners (1): 1969â€“70 *

Thats the honours list - is there a trophy in the cabinet for what you are talking about ?
		
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For someone who moans about people posting against you rather than what you've said this is it hypocritical LP.

Sawtooth said consistency, nothing about trophies so not sure what you're getting at?

Maybe take some of your own advice when Sean  posts, getting pretty tiresome reading your anti-Arsenal tirades every other day, especially when not relevant but Sean has posted :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 26, 2017)

NWJocko said:



			For someone who moans about people posting against you rather than what you've said this is it hypocritical LP.

Sawtooth said consistency, nothing about trophies so not sure what you're getting at?

Maybe take some of your own advice when Sean  posts, getting pretty tiresome reading your anti-Arsenal tirades every other day, especially when not relevant but Sean has posted :thup:
		
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Sean's posts was in rsposnse to Hobbits about trophies , JP5 also responded to Sean about trophies :thup:

But I'm sure soon I'll expect the same sort of post to the people who post on a daily basis the anti Liverpool tirades yes ? But then you could do what I do with them "ignore them" if you don't like them :thup:


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## NWJocko (Jan 26, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sean's posts was in rsposnse to Hobbits about trophies , JP5 also responded to Sean about trophies :thup:

But I'm sure soon I'll expect the same sort of post to the people who post on a daily basis the anti Liverpool tirades yes ? But then you could do what I do with them "ignore them" if you don't like them :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Phil, why do you think people on here comment on Liverpools scores?

Actually I can't be bothered, been ignoring this thread for a wee bit so will just go back to doing that instead which is a shame.

As you were. Enjoy :thup:


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## Tashyboy (Jan 26, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Pep biught bravo. And those same players have won the league previously. Somwhilst long term pep may be able to buy enough players to fit his style. With the stars you have, some of your performances have been shocking. All well and good blaming refs, but your defending at times has been poor, as has discipline. If pep was the messiah he's been built up to in world football, then he'd be able to accept if players couldn't play his way and find a system that works whilst he brings more players in.
		
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Trying to go through your post bit by bit, yup Pep bought Bravo and he is not up to it. He's not the first player not to cut it in the Prem, and he was not Pepes first choice. Defending has been shocking, but I already mentioned that in me list of players. Yes players have won the Prem at City, but they were younger and quicker. how many performances have been shocking ( Leicester and Everton) which was down to individual performances. IF you had been to some of City's games this year you would of seen a 10 game unbeaten run in Which Pep was asked if he could go all year unbeaten, they were that good.  But players have not been good enough.


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## Slime (Jan 26, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			1 - Liverpool have won just one of their seven games in 2017 so far, their worst start to a calendar year since 1993. Slump.

*Got to love a good stat* &#62978;
		
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Here's an interesting one.

LVG's 1st 50 games at United = 94pts
Klopp 1st 50 games at L'pool  = 90pts

To be honest, I'm surprised LVG got that many points!


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## Papas1982 (Jan 26, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Trying to go through your post bit by bit, yup Pep bought Bravo and he is not up to it. He's not the first player not to cut it in the Prem, and he was not Pepes first choice. Defending has been shocking, but I already mentioned that in me list of players. Yes players have won the Prem at City, but they were younger and quicker. how many performances have been shocking ( Leicester and Everton) which was down to individual performances. IF you had been to some of City's games this year you would of seen a 10 game unbeaten run in Which Pep was asked if he could go all year unbeaten, they were that good.  But players have not been good enough.
		
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I saw plenty of your start, and you were great. But I'm not sure that was more down to the players or pep. Your start My line up is imo still as good as any in the league. So a good run would always happen, but imo he's currently trying to play a style that too many of your players can't. He caught teams cold at the start, but they've clued up to you. 

Still think he has time as you've loads of money and the owners have wanted him from the start so won't panic. Just think that although decisions have gone agaisnt you. Anyone who clings to the fact that refs have cost them more than poor performances, is looking in the wrong direction.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 26, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Honours

The Football League & Premier League

    First Division (until 1992) and Premier League

    Winners (13): 1930â€“31, 1932â€“33, 1933â€“34, 1934â€“35, 1937â€“38, 1947â€“48, 1952â€“53, 1970â€“71, 1988â€“89, 1990â€“91, 1997â€“98, 2001â€“02, 2003â€“04

    League Cup

    Winners (2): 1986â€“87, 1992â€“93

    Southern Professional Floodlit Cup

    Winners (1): 1958â€“59

    Mercantile Credit Centenary Trophy

    Winners (1): 1988â€“89

The Football Association

    FA Cup

    Winners (12): 1929â€“30, 1935â€“36, 1949â€“50, 1970â€“71, 1978â€“79, 1992â€“93, 1997â€“98, 2001â€“02, 2002â€“03, 2004â€“05, 2013â€“14, 2014â€“15 (shared record)

    FA Community Shield (FA Charity Shield before 2002)

    Winners (14): 1930, 1931, 1933, 1934, 1938, 1948, 1953, 1991 (shared), 1998, 1999, 2002, 2004, 2014, 2015

UEFA

    UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (European Cup Winners' Cup before 1994)

    Winners (1): 1993â€“94

    Inter-Cities Fairs Cup

    Winners (1): 1969â€“70 *

Thats the honours list - is there a trophy in the cabinet for what you are talking about ?
		
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Cannot see the STAMPA cup on that list, my lad won that when he was 16 playing goalie for Mansfield Gas, youngest ever winner of said Mens Sunday league cup KO.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 26, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sean's posts was in rsposnse to Hobbits about trophies , JP5 also responded to Sean about trophies :thup:

But I'm sure soon I'll expect the same sort of post to the people who post on a daily basis the anti Liverpool tirades yes ? But then you could do what I do with them "ignore them" if you don't like them :thup:
		
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Why always you hey Phil? &#128584;

I'm surprised Stu or Sinbad haven't had a word with you about your obsession with Arsenal.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 26, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I saw plenty of your start, and you were great. But I'm not sure that was more down to the players or pep. Your start My line up is imo still as good as any in the league. So a good run would always happen, but imo he's currently trying to play a style that too many of your players can't. He caught teams cold at the start, but they've clued up to you. 

Still think he has time as you've loads of money and the owners have wanted him from the start so won't panic. Just think that although decisions have gone agaisnt you. Anyone who clings to the fact that refs have cost them more than poor performances, is looking in the wrong direction.
		
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Would never say that refs have cost is more than poor performances, but it is fine lines that owt you titles, top four or relegation. If city get the win v spuds they go second. A penalty that was never given. Doesn't guarantee a goal,  But it should of put Spuds down to 10 men. 30 seconds later it's 2-2. With no thanks to Bravo, again. This year I have seen some of the best goalkeepers in the Prem ever. Courtois the best, Burnley, Everton, Boro, arsenals keepers have been excellent and kept them in Games. Ironically Bravo and the spuds keeper have been atrocious. Would Hart of made a difference, without a shadow of doubt. His signings Jesus, Gundohan, De Bryune are a class above most of what was already at City. 
As a City fan, it is not all rosy watching them at times, certainly when seeing people like Kompany, Zabba, Kolarov and a few others who are past there best.
it sticks in my throat saying this but, City are a team in transition, it is something that Fergie managed to do quite well building three dynasties whilst at the swamp.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 26, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Would never say that refs have cost is more than poor performances, but it is fine lines that owt you titles, top four or relegation. If city get the win v spuds they go second. A penalty that was never given. Doesn't guarantee a goal,  But it should of put Spuds down to 10 men. 30 seconds later it's 2-2. With no thanks to Bravo, again. This year I have seen some of the best goalkeepers in the Prem ever. Courtois the best, Burnley, Everton, Boro, arsenals keepers have been excellent and kept them in Games. Ironically Bravo and the spuds keeper have been atrocious. Would Hart of made a difference, without a shadow of doubt. His signings Jesus, Gundohan, De Bryune are a class above most of what was already at City. 
As a City fan, it is not all rosy watching them at times, certainly when seeing people like Kompany, Zabba, Kolarov and a few others who are past there best.
it sticks in my throat saying this but, City are a team in transition, it is something that Fergie managed to do quite well building three dynasties whilst at the swamp.
		
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I fully agree that decisions at the time can feel bad. Trust me as a fan of a small club I've had plenty of cause for complaint in the past. But I don't think any team has one the league, or been relegated and can truly blame the refs. 

I dont watch you as as much as you do, but I'm sure since the money has come in, you can probabaly recall more occasions you've had a good advantage compared to the days y I struggled at Maine road. 

Btw, De Bruyne was there before pep I believe.


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## Kellfire (Jan 26, 2017)

Jesus has made a huge impact right enough. Haha.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 26, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Jesus has made a huge impact right enough. Haha.
		
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What's he done?


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## Kellfire (Jan 26, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			What's he done?
		
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Exactly.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 26, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Exactly.
		
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You've lost me.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 26, 2017)

Half of me is laughing, come on Hull :whoo:


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## Papas1982 (Jan 26, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			You've lost me.
		
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He was being sarcastic in response to tashy.

he pointed gundogan, de Brunei and Jesus as three quality signings by pep. 

Problme is, ones played One game I believe, one is injured and the other wasn't signed by pep.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 26, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Half of me is laughing, come on Hull :whoo:
		
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Mate football is doomed if that was a pen.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 26, 2017)

What is Phil Neville on, they show Rojo pulling McQuires shirt and he says it was wrong, that's not a penalty apparently!


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 26, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			He was being sarcastic in response to tashy.

he pointed gundogan, de Brunei and Jesus as three quality signings by pep. 

Problme is, ones played One game I believe, one is injured and the other wasn't signed by pep.
		
Click to expand...

&#128563; I missed that. 
Cheers.


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## anotherdouble (Jan 26, 2017)

Whether a penalty or not, if the player doesn't pull the shirt the ref has no decision to make


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 26, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Mate football is doomed if that was a pen.
		
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He's dragging his shirt, they're ones we go mad at when the officials miss them.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 26, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			What is Phil Neville on, they show Rojo pulling McQuires shirt and he says it was wrong, that's not a penalty apparently!
		
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pauldj42 said:



			He's dragging his shirt, they're ones we go mad at when the officials miss them.
		
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The problem once again is inconsistency. Yes it's a penalty, but we see defenders doing that every week without getting punished for it. At the start of the season it was being clamped down on and then it all went quiet - much like the players surrounding the ref. If the refs gave the decisions week in week out then players would stop doing it.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 26, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			He's dragging his shirt, they're ones we go mad at when the officials miss them.
		
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Have to be honest in real time I thought it was soft but seeing the replay you can see why it's given and of course you see it happening on your striker every set piece and want a penalty, knowing 99% of the time it'll never happen. Sets up the second half though


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 26, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			The problem once again is inconsistency. Yes it's a penalty, but we see defenders doing that every week without getting punished for it. At the start of the season it was being clamped down on and then it all went quiet - much like the players surrounding the ref. If the refs gave the decisions week in week out then players would stop doing it.
		
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We all agree they're inconsistent, but I'd rather he gave it than not.


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## Kellfire (Jan 26, 2017)

And there's the inconsistencies showing. That's a penalty.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 26, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			We all agree they're inconsistent, but I'd rather he gave it than not.
		
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Absolutely agree. If they gave them and then kept giving them the problem would soon go away.

Also agree with Kellfire that the challenge on Smalling was also probably a penalty.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 26, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Absolutely agree. If they gave them and then kept giving them the problem would soon go away.

Also agree with Kellfire that the challenge on Smalling was also probably a penalty.
		
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Come on, Smalling threw himself theatrically, you are allowed contact, no way was that a pen.


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## Kellfire (Jan 26, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Come on, Smalling threw himself theatrically, you are allowed contact, no way was that a pen.
		
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Your eyes are as inconsistent as the ref.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 26, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Absolutely agree. If they gave them and then kept giving them the problem would soon go away.

Also agree with Kellfire that the challenge on Smalling was also probably a penalty.
		
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Trouble is they'd be ten pens per side at the moment


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 26, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Your eyes are as inconsistent as the ref.
		
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Utd have started the 2nd half dropping like flies and appealing for everything, 
I must of missed the post were everyone condemned Pogba for diving or is it only refs that are bad


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 26, 2017)

Zlatan is a different level for me, great to have him in the PL.

Edit: Back to a scowl


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 26, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Trouble is they'd be ten pens per side at the moment
		
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Yes, but only for the first week or two. I know that footballers aren't renowned for their intelligence but even they would work it out after the first couple of weeks when they kept conceding penalties.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 26, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Pep is not getting found out, his players are getting found out. Like Zabaleta, otamendi, Sagna, Bravo. To name but a few. Bravo, don't get me started.
Also some of the referees we have had have been found out. An all to repetitive theme on this blog week after week. We Have battered teams this year and come away with one point Everton ( two pens missed) Boro, Battered Chelsea, but could not find the net, battered Spuds we know what happened there That's nine points off the top of my head. That's not finding Pep out, that's him finding out about his players.
		
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It could be levelled at him that the great start was because Pep hadn't fully integrated his ideas, and the players were playing as they had been.......

You'll be fine with him, just give him time, and dont let the talk sports morons drag him down. Its klopps turn now, will be someone else next month.:thup:


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## Tashyboy (Jan 26, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			He was being sarcastic in response to tashy.

he pointed gundogan, de Brunei and Jesus as three quality signings by pep. 

Problme is, ones played One game I believe, one is injured and the other wasn't signed by pep.
		
Click to expand...

Gundogan, was having an excellent season til he knackered his knee, differant injury to the one when we bought him injured.

Jesus, Olympic gold medal winner, winner of Brazilian League with Palmeras, and young player of year in Brazil. 

De Bryune, it is a poor secret that Pep was contacted to see if he would want him in his future squad as Pellegrini was the manager at that time. Pep gave the go ahead for that transfer to happen. Pelligrini was told he was on his way a couple of months later. If Pep did not want De Bryune he would not be at City now.

Thought everyone knew all of the above.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 26, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			It could be levelled at him that the great start was because Pep hadn't fully integrated his ideas, and the players were playing as they had been.......

You'll be fine with him, just give him time, and dont let the talk sports morons drag him down. Its klopps turn now, will be someone else next month.:thup:
		
Click to expand...

What is happening with talk sport, at one time I could listen to that station and be enlightened by some comments from fans and presenters. Now it just seems that the shows are run by wind up merchants. It has become painful to listen to.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 26, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			What is happening with talk sport, at one time I could listen to that station and be enlightened by some comments from fans and presenters. Now it just seems that the shows are run by wind up merchants. It has become painful to listen to.
		
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Dunno it has always sounded sensationalist and full of divvies to me.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 26, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Gundogan, was having an excellent season til he knackered his knee, differant injury to the one when we bought him injured.

Jesus, Olympic gold medal winner, winner of Brazilian League with Palmeras, and young player of year in Brazil. 

De Bryune, it is a poor secret that Pep was contacted to see if he would want him in his future squad as Pellegrini was the manager at that time. Pep gave the go ahead for that transfer to happen. Pelligrini was told he was on his way a couple of months later. If Pep did not want De Bryune he would not be at City now.

Thought everyone knew all of the above.
		
Click to expand...

nice bit of spin. 

I reckon jesus may become a good player. But there have been lots of new peles/Ronaldo/neymars with similar. So I'd not be using him as a class above. Especially as Silva is likely the guy to be replaced. 

As to pep giving the ok for Bruyne. Funny, I've never heard it, and personally think. That's a rumour of blue Manchester. He signed for you in august I belive? Pep agreed after January. I know Peligrini had been told if ever pep was available you'd go for him. But don't for one second think that city wouldn't have signed de Bruyne. He's a quality player. Unless he also ok'd otamend, sterling and Delphi that is......


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## Tashyboy (Jan 26, 2017)

Delph we got for next to nothing, and he is English, so helped with UEFA quotas.
Sterling was supposed to be the next best young English talent.
Otamendi was supposed to replace Kompany, you might as well give his shirt to Moonchester. He is one who is getting found out.


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## pbrown7582 (Jan 26, 2017)

:d


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## sawtooth (Jan 27, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



View attachment 21801



:d
		
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I wouldn't have been believed that. Actually I still don't.


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## richy (Jan 27, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Sterling was supposed to be the next best young English talent.
		
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Similar to Jesus for Brazil then?


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 27, 2017)

richy said:



			Similar to Jesus for Brazil then?
		
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Tbf Jesus is suppose to be decent.


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## Beezerk (Jan 27, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Tbf Jesus is suppose to be decent.
		
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And the value of Stirling is nose diving.


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## richy (Jan 27, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Tbf Jesus is suppose to be decent.
		
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I don't doubt that but so was Sterling.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 27, 2017)

richy said:



			I don't doubt that but so was Sterling.
		
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He was always over rated.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 27, 2017)

richy said:



			I don't doubt that but so was Sterling.
		
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He is a perfect example of a young player getting too much too early - on top of being poorly advised by his agent who was looking out for his own bonus. Sterling has all the ability but zero confidence right now


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## Beezerk (Jan 27, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sterling has zero ability but zero confidence right now
		
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Sorted


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## sawtooth (Jan 27, 2017)

Beezerk said:



			And the value of Stirling is nose diving.
		
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Yep like John the defender they signed from Everton. His value will be dropping like a Stone(s) too.


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## freddielong (Jan 27, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He is a perfect example of a young player getting too much too early - on top of being poorly advised by his agent who was looking out for his own bonus. Sterling has all the ability but zero confidence right now
		
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100% agree with that, english footballers get to much too soon, I remember a story about Jay Emmanuel Thomas (who, exactly) having a car crash around 2010 it was a 100000 pounds Mclaren Mercedes he was an 18 year old with 0 first team starts.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 27, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yep like John the defender they signed from Everton. His value will be dropping like a Stone(s) too.
		
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Of all the players that get slated at City for under performing, he is the one that I have the most sympathy with. Playing alongside some of those defenders must be nigh on impossible. Otamendi is always on his Arse diving in coz he has no pace, the whole of the defence has the same problem. 
V Everton when they battered us 4-0 Stones attempted clearance came off ? Baines, lopped over there heads and dropped to the Everton player who scored. The first thing I said was " where's Otamendi" or any other covering defender.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 27, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He is a perfect example of a young player getting too much too early - on top of being poorly advised by his agent who was looking out for his own bonus. Sterling has all the ability but zero confidence right now
		
Click to expand...

The same player who was idolised by the kop who was half of the legendary S A S, then slated by them when he went to City. Ironically not a lot was said when Milner went the opposite way. He apparantly is a level headed kid, unfortunately he is not the only player who's agent is a knob. YaYa springs to mind.
His first season under Pelligrine was painful, he is getting back to the player he was at Liverpool. I certainly would not lump him in the same category as some of the other under performers I have mentioned.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 27, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Of all the players that get slated at City for under performing, he is the one that I have the most sympathy with. Playing alongside some of those defenders must be nigh on impossible. Otamendi is always on his Arse diving in coz he has no pace, the whole of the defence has the same problem. 
V Everton when they battered us 4-0 Stones attempted clearance came off ? Baines, lopped over there heads and dropped to the Everton player who scored. The first thing I said was " where's Otamendi" or any other covering defender.
		
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We had a whole season of Stones being unlucky, his problem is that sometimes it needs Row Z, he will improve with maturity, but opposition know if they put him under pressure he'll make mistakes because he tries to retain possession.


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## Jensen (Jan 27, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			. Ironically not a lot was said when Milner went the opposite way. He apparantly is a level headed kid, unfortunately he is not the only player who's agent is a knob. YaYa springs to mind..
		
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It's a shame there are not more James Milners about, he is a REAL credit to his profession.
He was messed about something rotten at Newcastle when he was sent on loan to
Villa. Newcastle called him back from a loan spell only to send him back again, then when a deal was going through to sell him to Villa, Newcastle cancelled it.
How did he repay Newcastle, by giving 110% on every appearance.
James Milner has a fantastic attitude, always keen to play whilst always giving his all.
There are a lot of players both young and old who could learn a lot from James Milner


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## pbrown7582 (Jan 27, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			We had a whole season of Stones being unlucky, his problem is that sometimes it needs Row Z, he will improve with maturity, but opposition know if they put him under pressure he'll make mistakes because he tries to retain possession.
		
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Other than when he tried to put in in row Z at goodison the other week it was charged down and a goal scored :rofl:


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## richy (Jan 27, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			He was always over rated.
		
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Easy to say that now.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 27, 2017)

richy said:



			Easy to say that now.
		
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I've always said it,just another Aron Lennon. 
He's even got the same silly run. 
Like a camp T Rex


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 27, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			Other than when he tried to put in in row Z at goodison the other week it was charged down and a goal scored :rofl:
		
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A few times Everton players put him under pressure as they knew he likes time on the ball, Baines got close enough to block it. :whoo:


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## Beezerk (Jan 27, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			I've always said it,just another Aron Lennon. 
He's even got the same silly run. 
Like a camp T Rex
		
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Pmsl &#128514; harsh but true.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 27, 2017)

Beezerk said:



			Pmsl &#62978; harsh but true.
		
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Missis T reckons he is erm effeminate coz of the way he runs.


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## Jensen (Jan 27, 2017)

Said it when Aaron Lennon was at Tottenham, great at going past a man but a crap crosser. Also couldn't use his left foot.


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## sawtooth (Jan 27, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Said it when Aaron Lennon was at Tottenham, great at going past a man but a crap crosser. Also couldn't use his left foot.
		
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I think that scouts and coaches must get excited and carried away with  pace and hope that they can teach the art of being a footballer.

I'm afraid you can only coach so much, Lennon, Walcott and Sterling are all quick but are not and never will be great footballers


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## sawtooth (Jan 27, 2017)

4 match touchline ban for Wenger, going to miss games against Soton, Watford, Chelsea and Hull by the look of it.

I'm not convinced that touchline bans make that much difference tbh.


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## NWJocko (Jan 27, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I'm not convinced that touchline bans make that much difference tbh.
		
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Agree, more effective are the bans (is it in Uefa comps?) where they aren't allowed any contact with the team or coaches before or during the game from when they get to the stadium.  

Sure they will have all the talks beforehand etc but different not being on the mobile phone up in the stands all the time during the game and in control of tactical changes/subs etc


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 27, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			4 match touchline ban for Wenger, going to miss games against Soton, Watford, Chelsea and Hull by the look of it.

I'm not convinced that touchline bans make that much difference tbh.
		
Click to expand...

Dunno, the fourth officials will be able to rest easy for them games.


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## sawtooth (Jan 27, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Dunno, the fourth officials will be able to rest easy for them games. 

Click to expand...

Don't they anyway? Useless so and so's


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 27, 2017)

NWJocko said:



			Agree, more effective are the bans (is it in Uefa comps?) where they aren't allowed any contact with the team or coaches before or during the game from when they get to the stadium.  

Sure they will have all the talks beforehand etc but different not being on the mobile phone up in the stands all the time during the game and in control of tactical changes/subs etc
		
Click to expand...

I agree. Make it more punitive and a deterrent. Still too easy to get involved and make changes as it stands


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 28, 2017)

Not going the match today I have proper Manflu  gave ticket to my lad but watching first half hour glad I never .
always think though if you travelled a long way with all the expense involved to watch Liverpool reserves I would not be to happy.
schoolboy errors for first goal borderline offside but shocking defending !
all the first team saved for Chelsea because the real money is in the premier league finishing position .
but if we go out of the cup we will win nothing again this season.
i think you can't play a second string team against a decent side like Wolves without asking for trouble.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 28, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			i think you can't play a second string team against a decent side like Wolves without asking for trouble.
		
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Currently 18th in the Championship :thup:


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 28, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Currently 18th in the Championship :thup:
		
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I don't think this team we have out would be any higher if we played in that league.
They just don't learn from there mistakes.


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## davemc1 (Jan 28, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not going the match today I have proper Manflu  gave ticket to my lad but watching first half hour glad I never .
always think though if you travelled a long way with all the expense involved to watch Liverpool reserves I would not be to happy.
schoolboy errors for first goal borderline offside but shocking defending !
all the first team saved for Chelsea because the real money is in the premier league finishing position .
but if we go out of the cup we will win nothing again this season.
i think you can't play a second string team against a decent side like Wolves without asking for trouble.
		
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Bit peeved myself with the line up, we need a performance and win against anyone to lift spirits. This should of been the game. No offence to wolves.. &#128077;


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## freddielong (Jan 28, 2017)

Going well for Liverpool &#128515;&#128517;&#128516;


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## Slime (Jan 28, 2017)

I'm not too sure about Klopp's thinking process.
L'pool, as I'm sure he's aware, are not going to win the EPL so why not concentrate on the FA Cup in order to give the fans something to hang on to.
They may well be out of the cup tonight leaving their fans the forlorn hope of L'pool to win the league which is a massive long shot, especially the way they're playing this year.
A reserve team against Wolves, I think, is just a huge mistake.
What do Liverpool supporters honestly think?


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## Fish (Jan 28, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think I might have a Wolves Saints double on Saturday &#128540;
		
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I'm halfway there &#128077;&#128540;&#128079;




Fish said:



			Looks like there isn't a plan B, will be interesting to see how they react and how many players get rested on Saturday or if he plays a full strength team against Wolves to build confidence, but what if..... ....
		
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Hmm, I did wonder after the other night, I think he's not a very good gambler myself, what will be the verdict if he loses in the final, is out of the FA Cup and drops out the top 4, as things stand that's all more than a possibility, will the Liverpool faithful still judge him on being a great personality or on those  later results, or will they blame the owners?


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 28, 2017)

Slime said:



			I'm not too sure about Klopp's thinking process.
L'pool, as I'm sure he's aware, are not going to win the EPL so why not concentrate on the FA Cup in order to give the fans something to hang on to.
They may well be out of the cup tonight leaving their fans the forlorn hope of L'pool to win the league which is a massive long shot, especially the way they're playing this year.
A reserve team against Wolves, I think, is just a huge mistake.
What do Liverpool supporters honestly think?
		
Click to expand...

Big mistake as it looks like we are going out .
a good cup run is always nice for the fans especially after midweek 
big money for places in prem is devaluing the cup games.
winning the league is a no.
just scored so maybe lifeline for season


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## freddielong (Jan 28, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Big mistake as it looks like we are going out .
a good cup run is always nice for the fans especially after midweek 
big money for places in prem is devaluing the cup games.
winning the league is a no.
just scored so maybe lifeline for season
		
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Just got interesting at Anfield


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## Tashyboy (Jan 28, 2017)

As a neutral you could see comparisons between Liverpool this year and Leicester last year. Both out of the cup comps with only one game a week til the end of the season.
However, last year the top six bar Leicester were crap. This year Chelsea are on a roll, the other top four will take points off each other. Liverpool are imploding like the Arsenal usually do.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 28, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			Bit peeved myself with the line up, we need a performance and win against anyone to lift spirits. This should of been the game. No offence to wolves.. &#128077;
		
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Why hasn't he dipped in to the transfer market? 
I can understand him waiting till summer if he's building for next year but you's were flying up to Christmas, commentator's going on about Mane he's only scored 9 that's 1 more than Firmino and 2 more than Lallana.


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## One Planer (Jan 28, 2017)

Booooooooooooo


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## Dan2501 (Jan 28, 2017)

Lolverpool.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 28, 2017)

Never thought I would be saying well done to 
Swansea
Southampton
Wolves 
all winning at anfield but we were outfought in all games and got what we deserved.

good defending but we created nothing.


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## upsidedown (Jan 28, 2017)

Gonna be a some happy chappies at the club today plus the ones who went up


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 28, 2017)

Fish said:



			I'm halfway there &#62541;&#63004;&#62543;




Hmm, I did wonder after the other night, I think he's not a very good gambler myself, what will be the verdict if he loses in the final, is out of the FA Cup and drops out the top 4, as things stand that's all more than a possibility, will the Liverpool faithful still judge him on being a great personality or on those  later results, or will they blame the owners?
		
Click to expand...

The owners don't pick the team.
squad is not good enough.
but the one thing I thought Kiopp would give us is a bit of clout in the transfer market with his reputation but he has not up to now?


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 28, 2017)

:rofl::whoo::rofl::whoo:


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 28, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Why hasn't he dipped in to the transfer market? 
I can understand him waiting till summer if he's building for next year but you's were flying up to Christmas, commentator's going on about Mane he's only scored 9 that's 1 more than Firmino and 2 more than Lallana.
		
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It's more Manes work rate Sturridge could not tackle a wet paper bag.

The service to the strikers is abysmal.

we can't defend.

manager seems to have lost the plot to me his press conferences are jiberish.

that is not a good summary!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 28, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			It's more Manes work rate Sturridge could not tackle a wet paper bag.

The service to the strikers is abysmal.

we can't defend.

manager seems to have lost the plot to me his press conferences are jiberish.

that is not a good summary!
		
Click to expand...

No mate, you've still missed some chances the last few weeks and before, even with Mane back you need an out n out goalscorer.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 28, 2017)

First it was because Matip was missing and now Mane. 
It's just excuse after excuse. 
Would Mane sort out all the shambolic defending? 
Mane is a decent Premier League  player but that's all he is. 
You'd think he was Messi &#128580;


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 28, 2017)

Nice touch from the Spurs players.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 28, 2017)

Klopp has actually knackered out his players by playing the high fast pressing game,this is the P/L the fastest hardest league in the world and to play the way he plays you need a big squad.

They will finish 6th or 7th in the league but it looks like he thinks the Chelsea game is key to the title.

How is he going to attract big signings if he has no C/L.

The Klopp Express has finally derailed but of course the faithfull wont agree or see it.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 28, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			No mate, you've still missed some chances the last few weeks and before, even with Mane back you need an out n out goalscorer.
		
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Agree but that is what Sturridge is supposed to be , he has missed the chances that have fell to him but he brings nothing else to the team.
Suarez did what Mane is doing now he harasses defenders .
Tell me the last time twinkle toes Sturridge tackled and took the ball off anyone.

Its not just him I think today is Klopps fault he should have played a stronger team because that's another trophy less season.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 28, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Agree but that is what Sturridge is supposed to be , he has missed the chances that have fell to him but he brings nothing else to the team.
Suarez did what Mane is doing now he harasses defenders .
Tell me the last time twinkle toes Sturridge tackled and took the ball off anyone.

Its not just him I think today is Klopps fault he should have played a stronger team because that's another trophy less season.
		
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Hence my point about strengthing for this season.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 28, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Klopp has actually knackered out his players by playing the high fast pressing game,this is the P/L the fastest hardest league in the world and to play the way he plays you need a big squad.

They will finish 6th or 7th in the league but it looks like he thinks the Chelsea game is key to the title.

How is he going to attract big signings if he has no C/L.

The Klopp Express has finally derailed but of course the faithfull wont agree or see it.
		
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quite the opposite I do blame Klopp he is prioritising top four C/L we have no chance in the title.

but we have lost two cup games where we had 80% possession  I know that does not win games but you should not lose games you dominate.

its not not the pressing game that's the problem the last three games teams have sat back so you can't really press them .

we have been hit by counter attacks because we can't defend.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 28, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Hence my point about strengthing for this season.
		
Click to expand...

according to Klopp the squad is good enough !

but the guys on the Kop totally disagree with him as I do .

I honestly thought his reputation would bring some class players to us but up to now that hasn't happened.

wheather that's Klopp or the owners nobody knows but at the moment it's not good to watch .

The last thing any football fan wants to hear is we are building for the future that just means we are not good enough now.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 28, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			The last thing any football fan wants to hear is we are building for the future .
		
Click to expand...

You'll be surprised,we've heard that line quite a few times on here &#128514;


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 28, 2017)

Chelsea 2up early :whoo:

Would be nice to see Batshuayi on the score sheet.


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## Fish (Jan 28, 2017)

Get in their Wycombe &#128079;&#128079;


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 28, 2017)

Fish said:



			Get in their Wycombe &#128079;&#128079;
		
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The magic of the cup hey &#128556;


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## Fish (Jan 28, 2017)

and now Burton against the hoops &#128514;&#128514;


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## Fish (Jan 28, 2017)

Fish said:



			Get in their Wycombe &#128079;&#128079;
		
Click to expand...

2-nil &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Imurg (Jan 28, 2017)

Well, there goes my Super 6
Didn't have The Chairboys down for scoring 2!!!!!

Any Spurs fans in da house&#128536;&#128536;


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## PhilTheFragger (Jan 28, 2017)

Oh yes that's brilliant from Wycombe


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 28, 2017)

Ha Ha, Come on Wycombe &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## fundy (Jan 28, 2017)

Fish gonna like his bet even more when he sees the Xi Arsenal are fielding lol

All the teams fighting for 4th doing their best not to qualify today lol


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## fundy (Jan 28, 2017)

And less so when he sees the Saints XI, seems neither are too fussed


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## Imurg (Jan 28, 2017)

Boooooooooommmmmmmmmm


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 28, 2017)

Imurg said:



			Boooooooooommmmmmmmmm
		
Click to expand...

Pretend that's for the Spurs winner, you'll look a lot cooler &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## PhilTheFragger (Jan 28, 2017)

Lucky Spurs

Not many teams can go to White Hart Lane, score 3 and still lose

Proper cup tie, great spirit fromWycombe


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## anotherdouble (Jan 28, 2017)

fundy said:



			And less so when he sees the Saints XI, seems neither are too fussed
		
Click to expand...

Can't understand Southampton. Won't get relegated. Not going to finish in a European spot so why not go all out for another cup run


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## Papas1982 (Jan 28, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Can't understand Southampton. Won't get relegated. Not going to finish in a European spot so why not go all out for another cup run
		
Click to expand...

We have a tiny squad. And Puel rotates every week no matter what. 

Id rather we played a full team, but being in one final I'd much prefer us to have a fully fit first 11 to face Utd in Feb. 

Plus, our youth need a shot somewhere, gotta keep those Liverpool Â£Â£Â£Â£'s rolling in!


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## Jensen (Jan 28, 2017)

Was concerning for Spurs, but credit to the lads for keep fighting. Pleased it didn't go to a replay.
All credit to Wycombe, they put up spirited performance.


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## freddielong (Jan 28, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Was concerning for Spurs, but credit to the lads for keep fighting. Pleased it didn't go to a replay.
All credit to Wycombe, they put up spirited performance.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, not condescending at all.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 28, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Can't understand Southampton. Won't get relegated. Not going to finish in a European spot so why not go all out for another cup run
		
Click to expand...

Won't they qualify for EL by winning the League Cup :whoo:


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## Jensen (Jan 28, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Yeah, not condescending at all.
		
Click to expand...

&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## freddielong (Jan 28, 2017)

Danny's Well back.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 28, 2017)

Slime said:



			What do Liverpool supporters honestly think?
		
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Wenger out?


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## Papas1982 (Jan 28, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Danny's Well back.
		
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Yep. A goal against our reserves! Bit of a waste playing him in this fixture as it's one of his (fully fit quota) exhausted before he gets a paper cut.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 28, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Yep. A goal against our reserves! Bit of a waste playing him in this fixture as it's one of his (fully fit quota) exhausted before he gets a paper cut.
		
Click to expand...

As a nuetral to this game, it'd be nice to see some of the English lads put on a good performance and give Southgate a few options.


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## freddielong (Jan 28, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Yep. A goal against our reserves! Bit of a waste playing him in this fixture as it's one of his (fully fit quota) exhausted before he gets a paper cut.
		
Click to expand...

Make that two against your reserves


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## fundy (Jan 28, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			We have a tiny squad. And Puel rotates every week no matter what. 

*Id rather we played a full team, but being in one final I'd much prefer us to have a fully fit first 11 to face Utd in Feb.* 

Plus, our youth need a shot somewhere, gotta keep those Liverpool Â£Â£Â£Â£'s rolling in!
		
Click to expand...

thats 4 weeks away though, bit early to be saving players for isnt it. really dont get why Southampton arent playing a first team in this game, or do the players need resting for their mid table battle

great chance to beat arsenal today and progress and decided not to even compete

seems as though the cup is totally dead now bar a few sides


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## ger147 (Jan 28, 2017)

Apparently Arsenal are going to declare at half-time and have a bowl in the 2nd half...


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## sawtooth (Jan 28, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Make that two against your reserves
		
Click to expand...

Make it 3.

Quality from Arsenal and that should be us in the next round already.


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## MegaSteve (Jan 28, 2017)

Perhaps Mr Wenger should sit in the stands more often...


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## jp5 (Jan 28, 2017)

How come Saints are playing their reserves? Bet the fans feel a bit miffed!


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## Papas1982 (Jan 28, 2017)

fundy said:



			thats 4 weeks away though, bit early to be saving players for isnt it. really dont get why Southampton arent playing a first team in this game, or do the players need resting for their mid table battle

great chance to beat arsenal today and progress and decided not to even compete

seems as though the cup is totally dead now bar a few sides
		
Click to expand...

I think we will rotate til the final. We will be safe in league so Cup is priority. Lots of teams our level do it. 

Why are arsenal Resting Players? Granted their reserves are above our, bit of we'd played full team they could have been in trouble and they've got no other actual,honours to play for.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 28, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Make it 3.

Quality from Arsenal and that should be us in the next round already.
		
Click to expand...

He could score 6 or 7, wouldn't really be too bothered. We took a punt, it's gone wrong. We've only one priority now this season.


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## sawtooth (Jan 28, 2017)

jp5 said:



			How come Saints are playing their reserves? Bet the fans feel a bit miffed!
		
Click to expand...

Same reason Arsenal are.


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## jp5 (Jan 28, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Same reason Arsenal are.
		
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Arsenal bigger upcoming priorities (plus much more strength in depth). Find it odd Soton would prioritise, say, one league place higher finish than chance at a trophy.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 28, 2017)

jp5 said:



			Arsenal bigger upcoming priorities (plus much more strength in depth). Find it odd Soton would prioritise, say, one league place higher finish than chance at a trophy.
		
Click to expand...

Witht the greatest respect. We are in a final. For us, that's as big as it comes. We aren't resting for the league, although 3 league places higher in league is worth more than fa cup. 

 You have an impending defeat in the CL and then what? A battle for 4th?

id say the fa cup is again your best chance of a trophy so if anything, you should have prioritised it.


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## jp5 (Jan 28, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Witht the greatest respect. We are in a final. For us, that's as big as it comes. We aren't resting for the league, although 3 league places higher in league is worth more than fa cup. 

 You have an impending defeat in the CL and then what? A battle for 4th?

id say the fa cup is again your best chance of a trophy so if anything, you should have prioritised it.
		
Click to expand...

The final's in a month?! Wouldn't have thought playing a full team today would have any impact.

As for Arsenal - priorities have to be PL and CL, still in with a chance of both! Plus with the money these days our second string is probably a decent PL team by itself.


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## freddielong (Jan 28, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Witht the greatest respect. We are in a final. For us, that's as big as it comes. We aren't resting for the league, although 3 league places higher in league is worth more than fa cup. 

 You have an impending defeat in the CL and then what? A battle for 4th?

id say the fa cup is again your best chance of a trophy so if anything, you should have prioritised it.
		
Click to expand...

You are in the Mickey mouse cup final you could have gotten into the real cup final


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## sawtooth (Jan 28, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Witht the greatest respect. We are in a final. For us, that's as big as it comes. We aren't resting for the league, although 3 league places higher in league is worth more than fa cup. 

 You have an impending defeat in the CL and then what? A battle for 4th?

id say the fa cup is again your best chance of a trophy so if anything, you should have prioritised it.
		
Click to expand...

Arsenal are still in the league and CL so Wenger can't go mad and play the strongest possible 11.

That said he does take the FA Cup seriously and rightly so. He put out the weakest team that he felt was good enough to secure a win. In hindsight he could have weakened it further,&#128537;


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## Papas1982 (Jan 28, 2017)

jp5 said:



			The final's in a month?! Wouldn't have thought playing a full team today would have any impact.

As for Arsenal - priorities have to be PL and CL, still in with a chance of both! Plus with the money these days our second string is probably a decent PL team by itself.
		
Click to expand...

I accept your reserves are decent, although we've beat you in cups recently, so resting was a risk (til our line up). But as mentioned, Puel rotates constantly. It's the way he is. He also knows that the fans are on his back. So the cup is his only priority and he'll aim to have his starting line up ready. 

Final is a way off, but with our small squad, playing once a week is ideal so this game came at wrong time. 

We we are making cup,our target, just as you are with league and CL. I'd imagine if you went to bookies, we are shorter odds to win our trophy than you are. So don't feel we've done anything wrong. 

Small clubs dont don't get the luxury to choose priorities often


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## Papas1982 (Jan 28, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Arsenal are still in the league and CL so Wenger can't go mad and play the strongest possible 11.

That said he does take the FA Cup seriously and rightly so. He put out the weakest team that he felt was good enough to secure a win. In hindsight he could have weakened it further,&#63001;
		
Click to expand...

good old hindsight.....


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## Papas1982 (Jan 28, 2017)

freddielong said:



			You are in the Mickey mouse cup final you could have gotten into the real cup final
		
Click to expand...

Hahaha. Considering you celebrate 4th as a trophy I'll take that with a pinch of salt. 

Were 2/1 to win a trophy this season, your shortest odds are currently 9/1. 

considering the team you put out, don't kid yourself that the fa cup is be all it was. 

Congrats on the win though, means you can hug your Wenger doll knowing all is well for the evening.


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## freddielong (Jan 28, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Hahaha. Considering you celebrate 4th as a trophy I'll take that with a pinch of salt. 

Were 2/1 to win a trophy this season, your shortest odds are currently 9/1. 

considering the team you put out, don't kid yourself that the fa cup is be all it was. 

Congrats on the win though, means you can hug your Wenger doll knowing all is well for the evening.
		
Click to expand...

If you are going to go with lazy insults do the work first we have finnished 2nd just as often as 4th and it's CL qualification that we were celebrating but then you wouldn't know too much about that. 

That's 4


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## sawtooth (Jan 28, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Hahaha. Considering you celebrate 4th as a trophy I'll take that with a pinch of salt. 

Were 2/1 to win a trophy this season, your shortest odds are currently 9/1. 

considering the team you put out, don't kid yourself that the fa cup is be all it was. 

Congrats on the win though, means you can hug your Wenger doll knowing all is well for the evening.
		
Click to expand...

FA Cup is still a big trophy and the league cup is definitely worth winning too.


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## fundy (Jan 28, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I think we will rotate til the final. We will be safe in league so Cup is priority. Lots of teams our level do it. 

Why are arsenal Resting Players? Granted their reserves are above our, bit of we'd played full team they could have been in trouble and they've got no other actual,honours to play for.
		
Click to expand...

champions league last 16 in a couple of weeks?


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## Papas1982 (Jan 28, 2017)

freddielong said:



			If you are going to go with lazy insults do the work first we have finnished 2nd just as often as 4th and it's CL qualification that we were celebrating but then you wouldn't know too much about that. 

That's 4
		
Click to expand...

Lazy insults, you mocked our reaching a final. 

Amd 2/3/4. Still makes no difference, hence then4th place trophy (CL). Do you think your board care of its 2/4th. As long as they keep getting in they don't care about trophies. But they have poeple like you convinced so far play to em. 

As to us us not knowing about the CL, condescende all younlike you muppet. Preaching and gloating when your team has beat a reserve team. 

Bit it glad to see that when all is soda and done the typical big team fan arrogance comes out. Our teams better so you don't know what your talking about. Bell end.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 28, 2017)

fundy said:



			champions league last 16 in a couple of weeks?
		
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But that's a few weeks away..... as some have said about our cup game.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 28, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Yeah, not condescending at all.
		
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Muppet


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## fundy (Jan 28, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			But that's a few weeks away..... as some have said about our cup game.
		
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lol youre comparing a league cup final with being 2nd in the league and a champs league 2 leg last 16 coming up.

and whilst weve rested some of our side, weve still put out a side that is more than strong enough to win.

your management decided not to even bother turning up, if as a fan youre happy with that then thats fine


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## freddielong (Jan 28, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Muppet
		
Click to expand...

Put your tin of carlsberg down and step away from the keyboard I think you may have over done it.


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## freddielong (Jan 28, 2017)

Ha ha there is a  Liverpool fan on 5 live saying Klopp out


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## Papas1982 (Jan 28, 2017)

fundy said:



			lol youre comparing a league cup final with being 2nd in the league and a champs league 2 leg last 16 coming up.

and whilst weve rested some of our side, weve still put out a side that is more than strong enough to win.

your management decided not to even bother turning up, if as a fan youre happy with that then thats fine
		
Click to expand...

Obviously there is a world of difference. I've not said I. Happy we rested just I can understand. 

That being said. Us reaching a final is far more significant to our history than another lacklustre first leg in the last 16 for you. 
2nd in league now is a red herring imo, you'd have rested if you were first or 6th.


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## The Evertonian (Jan 28, 2017)

fundy said:



			lol youre comparing a league cup final with being 2nd in the league and a champs league 2 leg last 16 coming up.

and whilst weve rested some of our side, weve still put out a side that is more than strong enough to win.

your management decided not to even bother turning up, if as a fan youre happy with that then thats fine
		
Click to expand...

It's all relative mate, Saints haven't won a trophy since the 70's where as Arsenals 2nd and last 16 in the CL is par for the course.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 28, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Put your tin of carlsberg down and step away from the keyboard I think you may have over done it.
		
Click to expand...

ha. look, instead of throwing subtle insults around and condescending from my ivory tower I just said what I was feeling. 

If you wanna insult my clubs stature I'm just as happy to insult you. Fair?

if not, then go get ya Wenger bedspread and watch reruns of when you were actual contenders.


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## The Evertonian (Jan 28, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Ha ha there is a  Liverpool fan on 5 live saying Klopp out
		
Click to expand...

No doubt it'll be a Chelsea fan in disguise haha


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## sawtooth (Jan 28, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Obviously there is a world of difference. I've not said I. Happy we rested just I can understand. 

That being said. Us reaching a final is far more significant to our history than another lacklustre first leg in the last 16 for you. 
2nd in league now is a red herring imo, you'd have rested if you were first or 6th.
		
Click to expand...

Wenger has fielded weakened teams in the FA Cup (until the later stages at least) for as long as I can remember. Nothing new there, part of it is to keep fringe players happy and match fit, He also has to save the key players as much as possible for more important games.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 28, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			No doubt it'll be a Chelsea fan in disguise haha
		
Click to expand...

Or an Evertonian taxi driver &#128514;&#128514;


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## sawtooth (Jan 28, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Ha ha there is a  Liverpool fan on 5 live saying Klopp out
		
Click to expand...

Well, fast forward a few months and imagine Liverpool finishing 6th without a trophy. He would be under serious pressure. The club already had a great manager in Rodgers but they got rid of him pretty quickly. Klopp is certainly not untouchable.


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## anotherdouble (Jan 28, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			No doubt it'll be a Chelsea fan in disguise haha
		
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Why should we want Klopp out. I think he is doing a great job


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## The Evertonian (Jan 28, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Well, fast forward a few months and imagine Liverpool finishing 6th without a trophy. He would be under serious pressure. The club already had a great manager in Rodgers but they got rid of him pretty quickly. Klopp is certainly not untouchable.
		
Click to expand...

Nope....they'll turn on the board before they turn on Klopp...he's the messiah don't you know?
Besides...he 'gets them'!&#128580;


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## The Evertonian (Jan 28, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Why should we want Klopp out. I think he is doing a great job
		
Click to expand...

I didn't say you should want him out.


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## freddielong (Jan 28, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Well, fast forward a few months and imagine Liverpool finishing 6th without a trophy. He would be under serious pressure. The club already had a great manager in Rodgers but they got rid of him pretty quickly. Klopp is certainly not untouchable.
		
Click to expand...

I know but even Liverpool fans must realise they cannot carry on with the revolving door management they need a manager of Klopp's ability and give him time to sort out the mess.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 28, 2017)

Wow that was an interesting day. Fantastic result for little Lincoln and Wycombe were so unlucky against Spurs

Not sure what has gone wrong for Klippety but its a problem. They look leggy and while it's fine standing in front of the camera and saying he takes responsibility and it's not the players, it's them on the field and they weren't on it from kick off. The more I see Sturridge the worse he looks and he's a player looking lost

I can understand the Southampton line up given the efforts in midweek. I assume the Newcastle line up reflects their priorities (not seen it) but a good result from Oxford. Interesting if Fulham nil can do something tomorrow and avoid one of the big PL sides next time.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 28, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Wenger has fielded weakened teams in the FA Cup (until the later stages at least) for as long as I can remember. Nothing new there, part of it is to keep fringe players happy and match fit, He also has to save the key players as much as possible for more important games.
		
Click to expand...

I agree with that. Was basiallcy what i said. Just that the league currently doesn't affect his choise re line ups for fa up this early.,


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## sawtooth (Jan 28, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree with that. Was basiallcy what i said. Just that the league currently doesn't affect his choise re line ups for fa up this early.,
		
Click to expand...

A pivotal game in the league is only next week against Chelsea.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 28, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			A pivotal game in the league is only next week against Chelsea.
		
Click to expand...

I know. But you could have been playing Swansea, West Ham or us and he'd have done the same. That's all I was saying. That the FA cup is not a priority until the semis.


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## Imurg (Jan 28, 2017)

freddielong said:



			I know but even Liverpool fans must realise they cannot carry on with the revolving door management they need a manager of Klopp's ability and give him time to sort out the mess.
		
Click to expand...

I'd be interested to know how long is enough time..?
This is his 3rd transfer window...How long does he get.?


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## Fish (Jan 28, 2017)

I really hate Southampton now &#128545;


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## The Evertonian (Jan 28, 2017)

Imurg said:



			I'd be interested to know how long is enough time..?
This is his 3rd transfer window...How long does he get.?
		
Click to expand...

ClichÃ¨ I know, but Fergie got years when there was no such thing as a transfer window...and he did alright.
Stability, evolution...time. 
But everything is fast forward these days....Klopp was held up as the saviour by some Reds before he even got the job.


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## SaintHacker (Jan 28, 2017)

Fish said:



			I really hate Southampton now &#128545;
		
Click to expand...

Not as much as i do at the moment...:angry:


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 28, 2017)

freddielong said:



			If you are going to go with lazy insults do the work first we have finnished 2nd just as often as 4th and it's CL qualification that we were celebrating but then you wouldn't know too much about that. 

That's 4
		
Click to expand...

Right, Saints havent won a major trophy for over 40 years, and you think you should belittle them by saying that its no big deal that they have got to a major final?

Have a word with yourself.

Each club's relevance and expectations are based on their history, and their future. Would you begrudge them if they celebrated by winning it?

You celebrate averageness on a yearly basis, and you give someone stick for celebrating the potential extraordinary for their club?


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## sawtooth (Jan 28, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			You celebrate *averageness* on a yearly basis, and you give someone stick for celebrating the potential extraordinary for their club?
		
Click to expand...

I regard it as excellance, no mean feat to reach that level of consistency over 38 games but lets not go there again. Even I am getting bored of defending the top 4 "trophy".


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 28, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I regard it as excellance, no mean feat to reach that level of consistency over 38 games but lets not go there again. Even I am getting bored of defending the top 4 "trophy".
		
Click to expand...

You defend the Arsenal criticism - fair enough.

Do you defend the belittling of Saints being one win away from a 40 year drought?


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## Papas1982 (Jan 28, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Right, Saints havent won a major trophy for over 40 years, and you think you should belittle them by saying that its no big deal that they have got to a major final?

Have a word with yourself.

Each club's relevance and expectations are based on their history, and their future. Would you begrudge them if they celebrated by winning it?

You celebrate averageness on a yearly basis, and you give someone stick for celebrating the potential extraordinary for their club?
		
Click to expand...

first drink in kent is one me!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 28, 2017)




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## Liverbirdie (Jan 28, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			first drink in kent is one me!
		
Click to expand...

I'll buy you a double back, if you beat Man U on the Sunday.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 28, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'll buy you a double back, if you beat Man U on the Sunday.

Click to expand...

Deal!


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## The Evertonian (Jan 28, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Right, Saints havent won a major trophy for over 40 years, and you think you should belittle them by saying that its no big deal that they have got to a major final?

Have a word with yourself.

Each club's relevance and expectations are based on their history, and their future. Would you begrudge them if they celebrated by winning it?

You celebrate averageness on a yearly basis, and you give someone stick for celebrating the potential extraordinary for their club?
		
Click to expand...

&#128079;&#127995;&#128079;&#127995;&#128079;&#127995;&#128079;&#127995;&#128079;&#127995;&#128079;&#127995;


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## freddielong (Jan 28, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			You defend the Arsenal criticism - fair enough.

Do you defend the belittling of Saints being one win away from a 40 year drought?
		
Click to expand...

If you want to re read all the posts you will see that he was the first one to through derogatory remarks about , I didn't mention it  being a Mickey mouse cup until he started belittling our Champions league record, but I will be the bad guy if it helps you out.

Anyway if they are that desperate to win something why would they throw an FA cup tie


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 28, 2017)

freddielong said:



			If you want to re read all the posts you will see that he was the first one to through derogatory remarks about , I didn't mention it  being a Mickey mouse cup until he started belittling our Champions league record, but I will be the bad guy if it helps you out.

Anyway if they are that desperate to win something why would they throw an FA cup tie
		
Click to expand...

Booooo,Hissssssss

You were condesceding, end of.


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## freddielong (Jan 28, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Booooo,Hissssssss

You were condesceding, end of.
		
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Typical scouser, facts don't mean so much to your kind.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 28, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Typical scouser, facts don't mean so much to your kind.
		
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OO, this has gone to a new level.

Explain yourself very clearly, chump.


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## freddielong (Jan 28, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			OO, this has gone to a new level.

Explain yourself very clearly, chump.
		
Click to expand...

Early with the insults have you had few


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 28, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Early with the insults have you had few
		
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After going the match today, Ive had about 8 pints, not that many, actually.

Explanation?


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## The Evertonian (Jan 28, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Typical scouser, facts don't mean so much to your kind.
		
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Wow...just wow
Didnt realise we are a 'kind'...you've let yourself down there pal &#128527;


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 28, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Early with the insults have you had few
		
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Don't give him the satisfaction mate.


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## freddielong (Jan 28, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			After going the match today, Ive had about 8 pints, not that many, actually.

Explanation?
		
Click to expand...

You were ignoring the facts and making up your own truths, I owe nothing further "chump"


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## The Evertonian (Jan 28, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			After going the match today, Ive had about 8 pints, not that many, actually.

Explanation?
		
Click to expand...

Tiny penis maybe?


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## Papas1982 (Jan 28, 2017)

freddielong said:



			If you want to re read all the posts you will see that he was the first one to through derogatory remarks about , I didn't mention it  being a Mickey mouse cup until he started belittling our Champions league record, but I will be the bad guy if it helps you out.

Anyway if they are that desperate to win something why would they throw an FA cup tie
		
Click to expand...

For the record I didn't belittle your record. I've said many a time Wenger getting you to CL is impressive, but it's a brick wall. 

 I said that a final to us was more important than you most likely going out in the CL. I'd say it was pretty factual. If you look at how frequently both occur. Is getting to a final is much more of an upset than you losing to Bayern.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 28, 2017)

freddielong said:



			You were ignoring the facts and making up your own truths, I owe nothing further "chump"
		
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1. Whats the facts?
2. Why dont scousers understand facts?
3. Whats my kind?


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## Papas1982 (Jan 28, 2017)

In better news(for Liverpool) Mane is on his way back to England.


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## fundy (Jan 28, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			In better news(for Liverpool) Mane is on his way back to England.
		
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only player to manage to get knocked out of 2 cups in one day


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## pbrown7582 (Jan 28, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			After going the match today, Ive had about 8 pints, not that many, actually.

Explanation?
		
Click to expand...

Only 8 the night is young!


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 28, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			In better news(for Liverpool) Mane is on his way back to England.
		
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He's gone from being a bang average Prem player to a ballon d'or winner without even playing. 
I've never known a team blame their failures on one average player so much. 
&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Papas1982 (Jan 28, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			He's gone from being a bang average Prem player to a ballon d'or winner without even playing. 
I've never known a team blame their failures on one average player so much. 
&#62978;&#62978;&#62978;
		
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Weve all been single at some point and wondered if that nightmare ex was really the one.  

Absence makes the the heart grow founder n all that. 

Fwiw I think he's above average with a chance to be very good. But needs to do it for 30 games a season.


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## fundy (Jan 28, 2017)

also known as the england cricketer syndrome

utterly amazing how good some players become when theyre not in the team!


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## freddielong (Jan 28, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			1. Whats the facts?
2. Why dont scousers understand facts?
3. Whats my kind?
		
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To be honest I know nothing about you and said it to annoy you, but if 8 pints is something you say to make out your sober good luck to you as you have your own problems.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 28, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Weve all been single at some point and wondered if that nightmare ex was really the one.  

Absence makes the the heart grow founder n all that. 

Fwiw I think he's above average with a chance to be very good. But needs to do it for 30 games a season.
		
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He's decent,but nothing special. 
And if you blame your season collapsing on his absence then you really are in trouble. 
In reality the reason that Liverpool are so rubbish is their defence. 
It was when Brenda was in charge & Flopp as done nothing to address that problem. 
Brenda nearly pillocked his way to the title due to having Suarez in the team. 
But Gerrard slipped &#128514;. 
And Mane certainly isn't no Suarez.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 28, 2017)

freddielong said:



			To be honest I know nothing about you and said it to annoy you, but if 8 pints is something you say to make out your sober good luck to you as you have your own problems.
		
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Well you bottled that one, didnt you.


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## The Evertonian (Jan 28, 2017)

freddielong said:



			To be honest I know nothing about you and said it to annoy you, but if 8 pints is something you say to make out your sober good luck to you as you have your own problems.
		
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With your "typical scouser" comment you have problems too mate.
And it's "you're sober" &#128580;


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## freddielong (Jan 28, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Well you bottled that one, didnt you.
		
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Ok &#128077; being honest is bottling it


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 29, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Typical scouser, facts don't mean so much to your kind.
		
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whats my kind .
where do you get your facts The Sun.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 29, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			He's decent,but nothing special. 
And if you blame your season collapsing on his absence then you really are in trouble. 
In reality the reason that Liverpool are so rubbish is their defence. 
It was when Brenda was in charge & Flopp as done nothing to address that problem. 
Brenda nearly pillocked his way to the title due to having Suarez in the team. 
But Gerrard slipped &#62978;. 
And Mane certainly isn't no Suarez.
		
Click to expand...

I think if Mane was here he prob would not have played anyway.

Its not just the defence 

midfield is average at best.

if you look at Spurs they were in similar situation but big boys came on and done the buisness liverpools didn't.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 29, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think if Mane was here he prob would not have played anyway.

Its not just the defence 

midfield is average at best.

if you look at Spurs they were in similar situation but big boys came on and done the buisness liverpools didn't.
		
Click to expand...

It's all on Klopp,it's not like he didn't know Mane was going away to the African cup.
Plus he's done nothing to improve the defence. 
Like Pep he's learning that you have to perform in every game to get 3pts.


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## Fish (Jan 29, 2017)

I only had 8 pints and a girly Smirnoff Ice and was fast asleep as I hit the pillow before 9pm  &#128164; missed all the fun and bickering whilst in La La land &#128164; pubs around here in Boro didn't have the same ale so I was having to swap & change drinks all the time as we moved about which I don't like doing, even had to have a couple of bottles of Cobra in the curry house as they had no draft anything! 

Can we start a 'how many have you had' thread and see if there's any oetterns to what they post against how much they've drank, I reckon with what some write on here they must be permanently pished &#128540;&#128514;&#128514; 

"You're kind " wow, just wow &#128563;


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## Tiger man (Jan 29, 2017)

Freddielong's head's gone there, swiftly followed by his arse.:rofl:


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## bluewolf (Jan 29, 2017)

Some staggering new lows sunk to on this thread, followed by some quality backtracking that Liverpools midfield could learn from 

Oh, and I had 4 pints and a nice bottle of Californian Zinfandel last night, then I betrayed my family and friends by sticking a tenner on the redshyte to beat us 3-0 this afternoon. I've really let myself down


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 29, 2017)

As others have said, new low reached last night, I can admire passion and loyalty and at times we all say daft things, but no excusing that freddie, totally out of order.

Regards 

Another one of  "his kind"


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## davemc1 (Jan 29, 2017)

Probably best I didn't see that comment last night, with me being 3 sheets. A ban would of surely followed. I'll just shake my head in contempt &#128542;

Almost as bad (imo) was the post not long after appearing to back him up. 

it's time for me to give this thread up as a bad job


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## anotherdouble (Jan 29, 2017)

Fish said:



			I only had 8 pints and a girly Smirnoff Ice and was fast asleep as I hit the pillow before 9pm  &#128164; missed all the fun and bickering whilst in La La land &#128164; pubs around here in Boro didn't have the same ale so I was having to swap & change drinks all the time as we moved about which I don't like doing, even had to have a couple of bottles of Cobra in the curry house as they had no draft anything! 

Can we start a 'how many have you had' thread and see if there's any oetterns to what they post against how much they've drank, I reckon with what some write on here they must be permanently pished &#128540;&#128514;&#128514; 

"You're kind " wow, just wow &#128563;
		
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Perhaps it was better you were asleep Robin. Would hate to think you would ruin your perfectly clean record of the past 13 months:thup:


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 29, 2017)

Looks like Payet is off to Marseille.


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## sawtooth (Jan 29, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Looks like Payet is off to Marseille.
		
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Good riddance. A great talent but for the way he acted the past month he wont be missed.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 29, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Good riddance. A great talent but for the way he acted the past month he wont be missed.
		
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Agreed,turned out to be a decent bit of buisness from West Ham.


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## sawtooth (Jan 29, 2017)

Good news about Mane coming back early from ACN. Liverpool laying on a jet to make sure he is ready for Chelsea game. 

C'mon Liverpool do us a favour.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 29, 2017)

freddielong said:



			Ok &#62541; being honest is bottling it
		
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No, if you were being honest you would have the bottle to explain yourself. You made a crass comment, and when asked to explain, you've declined to.

I'm down in Kent in a few weeks.....


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 29, 2017)

Not sure how the officials didn't spot the ball crossing the line in the Barca game &#128584;


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## Slime (Jan 29, 2017)

Just a thought .................... maybe an apology may smooth things out a bit.
I hate it when forummers go keyboard to keyboard and put a black cloud over an otherwise good thread, thus spoiling it for others.
We all say things in the heat of the moment, I hope that's all it was.


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## sawtooth (Jan 29, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			No, if you were being honest you would have the bottle to explain yourself. You made a crass comment, and when asked to explain, you've declined to.

I'm down in Kent in a few weeks.....
		
Click to expand...

Let it go Pete it's a football thread with banter (often alcohol induced) and emotions usually running high.

I'm sure Freddie didn't mean anything by it.


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## anotherdouble (Jan 29, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not sure how the officials didn't spot the ball crossing the line in the Barca game &#128584;
		
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It baffles me.


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## sawtooth (Jan 29, 2017)

Slime said:



			Just a thought .................... maybe an apology may smooth things out a bit.
I hate it when forummers go keyboard to keyboard and put a black cloud over an otherwise good thread, thus spoiling it for others.
We all say things in the heat of the moment, I hope that's all it was.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I agree, an apology would help


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## bluewolf (Jan 29, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Let it go Pete it's a football thread with banter (often alcohol induced) and emotions usually running high.

I'm sure Freddie didn't mean anything by it.
		
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Agreed. Life's too short to hold grudges. Move on and let's all support the 'tics.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 29, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			It baffles me.
		
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It wasn't even a close call.
Nearly as bad as the Spurs v Utd one.


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## sawtooth (Jan 29, 2017)

I propose a football themed 4 ball better ball match play comp to ease tensions and build bridges.

1st round  Arsenal A v Liverpool A

sawtooth/ Freddielong v Liverbirdie and a pick from LP, StuartC, clubchamp98, Dave?

That would be tasty 

(Only one winner there of course)


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## sandmagnet (Jan 29, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Looks like Payet is off to Marseille.
		
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Glad in one way,sad in another but if he wants out we gotta get shot.very good player and one of them finds teams get from time to time. If true about his family I can understand it. We would all do the same.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 29, 2017)

sandmagnet said:



			Glad in one way,sad in another but if he wants out we gotta get shot.very good player and one of them finds teams get from time to time. If true about his family I can understand it. We would all do the same.
		
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He just went about it all wrong.


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## sandmagnet (Jan 29, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			He just went about it all wrong.
		
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Yes he did. But on a better note we did replace him with snodgrass &#128514;


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## Slime (Jan 29, 2017)

C'mon you *reds* !!!


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 29, 2017)

Come on tho you do have to laugh :rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Jan 29, 2017)

Fellinni is just a great player, he cover so much ground in his lazy running style then strolls into space for a quick return pass.
A diamond surrounded by rocks.


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## sawtooth (Jan 29, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



View attachment 21826



Come on tho you do have to laugh :rofl:
		
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I might if I could actually see it.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 29, 2017)




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## Slime (Jan 29, 2017)

Well, that should do it.
Football really can be a simple game.


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## Slime (Jan 29, 2017)

Sooooooo pleased for Bastian.
I hope he stays.


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## sawtooth (Jan 29, 2017)

Slime said:



			Well, that should do it.
Football really can be a simple game.
		
Click to expand...

Well done Utd, Wigan at home didn't look easy on paper.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 29, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Well done Utd, Wigan at home didn't look easy on paper. 

Click to expand...

It actually looked very easy on paper and imo was a home banker and it helps when the manager has respect for the cup and opposition and fields a strong team although not our strongest.


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## Jensen (Jan 29, 2017)

Great result for Sutton United, hope they get an away draw to one of the big boys.
Trouble is Spurs have already used 1 get out of jail card, don't know if we've got any more.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 29, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Great result for Sutton United, hope they get an away draw to one of the big boys.
Trouble is Spurs have already used 1 get out of jail card, don't know if we've got any more.
		
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Yes Lincoln also and a day to remember for the players and fans


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 29, 2017)

Imurg said:



			I'd be interested to know how long is enough time..?
This is his 3rd transfer window...How long does he get.?
		
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Klopp has been at the club for 14 months now 

In that period we have got to two finals , another semi final , gone from mid table to being a clear top four and maybe title challenger whilst playing a far better way than the previous management. Still got a good number of years yet before even looking at if it's long enough. Only have to look at the way Dortmund progressed with him to see that it's not and never will be an overnight fix. 

Currently we are having a dip in form , just like Chelsea did , City did , Arsenal , Utd etc and we will recover from it and move on. It's massively disappointing to be knocked out of the cups in quick succession as the cups give a good day out and a chance of silverware but the main goal and aim right now is getting into the CL. 

As for the rest of the nonsense being spouted on the thread - it was bad enough with the rubbish about the Cup and Southampton but a line was crossed with the "your kind " comment

As for the FA Cup - what a superb weekend for the lower league clubs - some fantastic results and hope they get some corking draws. But no matter how many times it's said now - the FA Cup no longer holds the same importance as what it used to, all I keep hearing on 5 Live is comments like "But it's the FA Cup " a so ? A lot of clubs have higher priorities now


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## Slime (Jan 29, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As for the FA Cup - what a superb weekend for the lower league clubs - some fantastic results and hope they get some corking draws. But no matter how many times it's said now - the FA Cup no longer holds the same importance as what it used to, all I keep hearing on 5 Live is comments like "But it's the FA Cup " a so ? *A lot of clubs have higher priorities now*

Click to expand...

United have higher priorities but still show the FA Cup enormous respect by fielding a very strong side .......................... and for that I'm glad.
However, sadly though it is, I totally agree with your sentiment. That's what money can do!


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 29, 2017)

Slime said:



			United have higher priorities but still show the FA Cup enormous respect by fielding a very strong side .......................... and for that I'm glad.
However, sadly though it is, I totally agree with your sentiment. That's what money can do!
		
Click to expand...

Is it not more a case that if Jose makes 9 changes to his starting line up he is bringing in players like Martial, Rashford, Shaw, Rooney, Mata, Schweinsteiger, Mhktarian etc who are recognised internationals. When Klopp makes 9 changes to his team he is bringing in unknown (to those that don't follow Liverpool) youngsters. The biggest difference is the strength in depth of the two squads.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 29, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Is it not more a case that if Jose makes 9 changes to his starting line up he is bringing in players like Martial, Rashford, Shaw, Rooney, Mata, Schweinsteiger, Mhktarian etc who are recognised internationals. When Klopp makes 9 changes to his team he is bringing in unknown (to those that don't follow Liverpool) youngsters. The biggest difference is the strength in depth of the two squads.
		
Click to expand...

Yep summed it up well - UTD have a lot of expensive high earners sat on the bench or even not in match day squads so when it comes to cup matches can put a lot of international players into the line ups. Liverpool played a lot of kids - I was happy with it because it gives a lot of these kids valuable minutes on the pitch and you can start to figure out which ones won't make it


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 29, 2017)

Would you rather Klopp made maybe 3 or 4 changes and put some of these youngsters into a team that contained some experienced players for them to learn from rather than lumping them all in together? I imagine they would learn a lot more from playing alongside Coutinho, Henderson etc rather than others their own age.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 29, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Would you rather Klopp made maybe 3 or 4 changes and put some of these youngsters into a team that contained some experienced players for them to learn from rather than lumping them all in together? I imagine they would learn a lot more from playing alongside Coutinho, Henderson etc rather than others their own age.
		
Click to expand...

I think if we hadn't played Southampton on Wed and didn't have Chelsea on Tuesday than possibly a couple more could have played but a few have had injuries over the season like Henderson , Coutinho so a rest is good for them - it's very hard to find the balance with a small squad but they had enough on the pitch on Saturday to get a result - just didn't play well and Wolves defended superbly to restrict the space


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## sawtooth (Jan 29, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Klopp has been at the club for 14 months now 

In that period we have got to two finals , another semi final , gone from mid table to being a clear top four and maybe title challenger whilst playing a far better way than the previous management. Still got a good number of years yet before even looking at if it's long enough. Only have to look at the way Dortmund progressed with him to see that it's not and never will be an overnight fix. 

Currently we are having a dip in form , just like Chelsea did , City did , Arsenal , Utd etc and we will recover from it and move on. It's massively disappointing to be knocked out of the cups in quick succession as the cups give a good day out and a chance of silverware *but the main goal and aim right now is getting into the CL. 
*
As for the rest of the nonsense being spouted on the thread - it was bad enough with the rubbish about the Cup and Southampton but a line was crossed with the "your kind " comment

As for the FA Cup - what a superb weekend for the lower league clubs - some fantastic results and hope they get some corking draws. But no matter how many times it's said now - the FA Cup no longer holds the same importance as what it used to, all I keep hearing on 5 Live is comments like "But it's the FA Cup " a so ? A lot of clubs have higher priorities now
		
Click to expand...

You don't get a trophy for that nor is it an achievement of any kind  Fans want trophies do they not? And so far Klopp hasn't delivered any and they likely wont now until at least 2018.

How are you more of a top 4 side now compared to when BR was in charge? He finished the season 2nd, whereas Klopp was 8th last season wasn't he?


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## Tashyboy (Jan 29, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Yes Lincoln also and a day to remember for the players and fans
		
Click to expand...

One  of the staff in our club shop is hardcore Lincoln, he has been proper buzzing this season, hope we get them at our place. Al take him into Mary Dee's.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 29, 2017)

So pleased for Sutton, a great community club. Hope they get a good draw, just not Fulham nil


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## Tashyboy (Jan 29, 2017)

I stand corrected, but earlier today I saw Liverpools record for January and they have won one game V the mighty Plymouth. It looked like an horrendous month for them. Unless you take great joy in there struggles. But it looked like they had played a lot of games as well.
Irrespective of our views whether we think they are struggling or not, somebody at anfield must think they are struggling coz Mane is coming back from the African nations cup via private jet rather than Ryanair.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 29, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			You don't get a trophy for that nor is it an achievement of any kind  Fans want trophies do they not? And so far Klopp hasn't delivered any and they likely wont now until at least 2018.
		
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It's the stepping stone forward for us as opposed to the main achievement for a decade - getting CL football will hopefully allow the club to attract and pay for the top players we then need to go on to challenge and win the big titles. Fans do want trophies - especially the league and CL ones - that's the aim. 




			How are you more of a top 4 side now compared to when BR was in charge? He finished the season 2nd, whereas Klopp was 8th last season wasn't he?
		
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Maybe because right now we are in the Top 4 where as with Rodgers we had one outstanding season on the back of a wonderful Suarez - the other two seasons were a 6th and 7th finish and mid table when he left . Klopp came in midway through last season.


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## guest100718 (Jan 29, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's the stepping stone forward for us as opposed to the main achievement for a decade - getting CL football will hopefully allow the club to attract and pay for the top players we then need to go on to challenge and win the big titles. Fans do want trophies - especially the league and CL ones - that's the aim. 

Maybe because right now we are in the Top 4 where as with Rodgers we had one outstanding season on the back of a wonderful Suarez - the other two seasons were a 6th and 7th finish and mid table when he left . Klopp came in midway through last season.
		
Click to expand...

you have to finish in the top 4... not just be there for a while....


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## HawkeyeMS (Jan 29, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			So pleased for Sutton, a great community club. Hope they get a good draw, just not Fulham nil
		
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Fulham nil? You know we beat Hull 4-1 today right?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 29, 2017)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Fulham nil? You know we beat Hull 4-1 today right?
		
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I know but they are a championship side (in waiting). You wait until we get Lincoln away


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## Golfmmad (Jan 29, 2017)

I watched Arsenal on Match Of The Day last night - good win for Arsenal. But I was really annoyed with what the Pundits discussed after the game.

It was all about the return of Welbeck and yes he did well scoring 2 goals. But they didn't even mention once about Walcotts hatrick. He gets a rough deal and deserves much better IMHO.

Rant over.


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## sawtooth (Jan 29, 2017)

Golfmmad said:



			I watched Arsenal on Match Of The Day last night - good win for Arsenal. But I was really annoyed with what the Pundits discussed after the game.

It was all about the return of Welbeck and yes he did well scoring 2 goals. But they didn't even mention once about Walcotts hatrick. He gets a rough deal and deserves much better IMHO.

Rant over.
		
Click to expand...

I hear you but Welbeck been out since May and in many respects his brace was more impressive than Walcott's hatrick.

And he's like a new signing


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 30, 2017)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....rto-Firmino-court-apperance/amp?client=safari

That's good of them &#128580;


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## Fish (Jan 30, 2017)

I think it's disgusting, not just because it's us, I would think the same for any game or opposition, I'm confident at the time things were strung out massively when punchy went on the rampage in Southport! 

The common man doesn't get these squeezes so why should professional people get them, double standards as usual and says more about the courts and legal system in Liverpool putting things like a footy match ahead of what simply should be just the law and nothing should change that date, I can't see why he couldn't have attended court in the day and played at night, what's the big deal, it's not like he's getting sent down, especially in a Liverpool court, standard loss of licence and a fine, crack on....he can afford a few taxi's or even employ a driver for a while, there's plenty unemployed up there that'll apply!


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 30, 2017)

So he's gone out & endangered other people's life's by drink driving & the courts have said 
Is Tuesday ok with you mate?
Or is Wednesday better? 

What kind of message is this sending out?


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 30, 2017)

It's not good, but then if you look at the litany of high profile footy players who get a soft ride with the judiciary he just another in the long list.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 30, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think it's disgusting, not just because it's us, I would think the same for any game or opposition, I'm confident at the time things were strung out massively when punchy went on the rampage in Southport! 

The common man doesn't get these squeezes so why should professional people get them, double standards as usual and says more about the courts and legal system in Liverpool putting things like a footy match ahead of what simply should be just the law and nothing should change that date, I can't see why he couldn't have attended court in the day and played at night, what's the big deal, *it's not like he's getting sent down, especially in a Liverpool court,* standard loss of licence and a fine, crack on....he can afford a few taxi's or even employ a driver for a while, there's plenty unemployed up there that'll apply!
		
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Do you really think he'd be sent down anywhere else?
ots a local case so heard in a local court. 

Just for a little clairty. 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/feb/01/john-terry-pleads-not-guilty

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/465718.stm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ght-107mph-spared-driving-ban-unemployed.html

not the first and won't be the last to use good lawyers to get preferential treatment.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 30, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Do you really think he'd be sent down anywhere else?
ots a local case so heard in a local court. 

Just for a little clairty. 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/feb/01/john-terry-pleads-not-guilty

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/465718.stm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ght-107mph-spared-driving-ban-unemployed.html

not the first and won't be the last to use good lawyers to get preferential treatment.
		
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It's pathetic tho isn't it? 
The courts should say this is the date & time & that's it. 
And having the date changed because you're playing football that evening is just ridiculous.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 30, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think it's disgusting, not just because it's us, I would think the same for any game or opposition, I'm confident at the time things were strung out massively when punchy went on the rampage in Southport! 

The common man doesn't get these squeezes so why should professional people get them, double standards as usual and says more about the courts and legal system in Liverpool putting things like a footy match ahead of what simply should be just the law and nothing should change that date, I can't see why he couldn't have attended court in the day and played at night, what's the big deal, *it's not like he's getting sent down, especially in a Liverpool court, *standard loss of licence and a fine, crack on....he can afford a few taxi's or even employ a driver for a while, there's plenty unemployed up there that'll apply!
		
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Not sure what you are implying ? 

Are you suggesting that the court will go easy on him because he is a Liverpool player ? - in the same way Ferguson got left of his court issue 

And didn't Chelsea ask for a delay in Terrys court case ? I'm guessing that was disgusting also ?

I know of at least one person in my golf club that managed to get a court case date changed due to a work issue.

A good lawyer can find a way around anything these days.

It's wrong on all accounts


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## Papas1982 (Jan 30, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			It's pathetic tho isn't it? 
The courts should say this is the date & time & that's it. 
And having the date changed because you're playing football that evening is just ridiculous.
		
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I agree it's a joke. Unfortunately it's the law system and anyone could get it changed for work if they had the right lawyer.


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## Slime (Jan 30, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree it's a joke. Unfortunately it's the law system and anyone could get it changed for work if they had the right lawyer.
		
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Ah, but how many of us 'normal people' could actually afford the right lawyer?
Not me, that's for sure!


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## Fish (Jan 30, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not sure what you are implying ? 

Are you suggesting that the court will go easy on him because he is a Liverpool player ? - in the same way Ferguson got left of his court issue 

And didn't Chelsea ask for a delay in Terrys court case ? I'm guessing that was disgusting also ?

I know of at least one person in my golf club that managed to get a court case date changed due to a work issue.

A good lawyer can find a way around anything these days.

It's wrong on all accounts
		
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Yes It's disgusting, period, even if Terry's lawyers asked for one.  If there's special circumstances to ask for a delay then that's depends on the circumstances of the crime and the said special circumstances, but for a millionaire footy player of any team, no way, imo. 

And yes I think a Liverpool player can get a squeeze, punchy confirmed that to me by seeing him throwing punches at someone sat on a stool, which if I did that I would have seen some time away. 

As has been said, clever expensive lawyers can work their magic for the rich & famous, and especially in a city that lives and breathes for its football team, and their current players, to think that any special dispensation isn't afforded them I think is being a bit naive personally.


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## sawtooth (Jan 30, 2017)

Sutton v Arsenal in the next round of the cup.

Not taking anything for granted , it will be a very tough game.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 30, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Would you rather Klopp made maybe 3 or 4 changes and put some of these youngsters into a team that contained some experienced players for them to learn from rather than lumping them all in together? I imagine they would learn a lot more from playing alongside Coutinho, Henderson etc rather than others their own age.
		
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yes agree with this to many changes .
young players need someone to look to on the pitch.
no leader on the pitch Saturday.


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## Fish (Jan 30, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			yes agree with this to many changes .
young players need someone to look to on the pitch.
no leader on the pitch Saturday.
		
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Didnt Lucas play &#129300;


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 30, 2017)

Fish said:



			Didnt Lucas play &#27138;
		
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Exactly.


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## Fish (Jan 30, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Exactly.
		
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Ouch &#128514;&#128077;


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## sawtooth (Jan 31, 2017)

Looking forward to Liverpool v Chelsea this evening. I hope I that I can find a place to watch it in Brno. Or very quickly figure out how to get Sky Go on the laptop with the correct VPN and pray that I have good internet in the hotel. What could go wrong?

2-1 to the reds.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Looking forward to Liverpool v Chelsea this evening. I hope I that I can find a place to watch it in Brno. Or very quickly figure out how to get Sky Go on the laptop with the correct VPN and pray that I have good internet in the hotel. What could go wrong?

2-1 to the reds.
		
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It's on BT sport &#128547;


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## sawtooth (Jan 31, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			It's on BT sport &#63011;
		
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Ah bugger I do have BT sports but they don't show that on SkyGo. I still have an old slingbox somewhere, I could have a go at that else last resort find a stream online. 

I need Liverpool to build up a lead early doors before they run out of puff. They can be explosive in the first 20-30 mins lets hope so tonight with all their big guns back.

Nothing personal you understand.:thup:


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## Fish (Jan 31, 2017)

I think we'll see a different Liverpool to that who's only won 1 in 7 games, or is it 8 &#129300; 

Actually if you do see a remarkably different Liverpool because it's Chelsea visiting and the nature of the result, I'd be a bit miffed as a fan wondering where that performance had been for the last 2 months!

They'll come at us quick & fast, they'll chase everything down like headless chickens, we'll absorb this for around 20- 30 minutes when they will start to get frustrated and flag and then we'll strike back on a few counters clinically finishing any attempts on goal &#128077;

Once we get that first goal they'll have to come at us them leaving their dodgy defence open for us to exploit &#128540;

0-2 Super Blues


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## anotherdouble (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Ah bugger I do have BT sports but they don't show that on SkyGo. I still have an old slingbox somewhere, I could have a go at that else last resort find a stream online. 

I need Liverpool to build up a lead early doors before they run out of puff. They can be explosive in the first 20-30 mins lets hope so tonight with all their big guns back.

Nothing personal you understand.:thup:
		
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Mr Tooth BT sport do a similar app to sky go.


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## anotherdouble (Jan 31, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think we'll see a different Liverpool to that who's only won 1 in 7 games, or is it 8 &#129300; 

Actually if you do see a remarkably different Liverpool because it's Chelsea visiting and the nature of the result, I'd be a bit miffed as a fan wondering where that performance had been for the last 2 months!

They'll come at us quick & fast, they'll chase everything down like headless chickens, we'll absorb this for around 20- 30 minutes when they will start to get frustrated and flag and then we'll strike back on a few counters clinically finishing any attempts on goal &#128077;

Once we get that first goal they'll have to come at us them leaving their dodgy defence open for us to exploit &#128540;

0-2 Super Blues
		
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It's a pity slippy has retired, he may have helped the mighty blues


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## sawtooth (Jan 31, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Mr Tooth BT sport do a similar app to sky go.
		
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Cheers but I'm with Plusnet and we are limited to watching BT only on Sky box. It's lower cost to us (as a BT subsidiary) but that's the trade off.


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## anotherdouble (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Cheers but I'm with Plusnet and we are limited to watching BT only on Sky box. It's lower cost to us (as a BT subsidiary) but that's the trade off.
		
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Ah ok.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Looking forward to Liverpool v Chelsea this evening. I hope I that I can find a place to watch it in Brno. Or very quickly figure out how to get Sky Go on the laptop with the correct VPN and pray that I have good internet in the hotel. What could go wrong?

2-1 to the reds.
		
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The problem Klopp has is if his players don't put in a good performance tonight all this resting them was a waste of time.
This puts them under a bit of pressure before they even kick off against the best team in the country at the moment.
as a counter attacking team they don't come much better than Chelsea so Klopp needs to get his tactics right and not just chase all over the pitch in packs.
we need to win but most of all no more losses at home where we have 80% possession but give stupid goals away.

going out of both cups was a mess and we need to put a stop to these defeats what better time to do it.

hope it's a good game 1-0 will do!


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## Slime (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Ah bugger I do have BT sports but they don't show that on SkyGo. I still have an old slingbox somewhere, I could have a go at that else* last resort find a stream online*. 

I need Liverpool to build up a lead early doors before they run out of puff. They can be explosive in the first 20-30 mins lets hope so tonight with all their big guns back.

Nothing personal you understand.:thup:
		
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EPLSITE.com is a good stream, so I'm led to believe.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Looking forward to Liverpool v Chelsea this evening. I hope I that I can find a place to watch it in Brno. Or very quickly figure out how to get Sky Go on the laptop with the correct VPN and pray that I have good internet in the hotel. What could go wrong?

2-1 to the reds.
		
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Why won't you be watching Arsenal V Watford tonight? People might think you're getting infatuated with Lpool


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## sawtooth (Jan 31, 2017)

Slime said:



			EPLSITE.com is a good stream, so I'm led to believe.
		
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Cheers.


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## sawtooth (Jan 31, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Why won't you be watching Arsenal V Watford tonight? People might think you're getting infatuated with Lpool 

Click to expand...

It's not on the box, besides Liverpool is my second team &#128521;


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## USER1999 (Jan 31, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Why won't you be watching Arsenal V Watford tonight? People might think you're getting infatuated with Lpool 

Click to expand...

It is not on telly?


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## sawtooth (Jan 31, 2017)

And other news, how can Palace let Andros Townsend go out on loan to Newcastle?

He's been one of their best players this season from where I'm sat. Surely they need his quality to help keep them up. Weird one.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 31, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			It is not on telly?
		
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He's already stated he can't see the LPool match and is looking for a stream, the same site will have Arsenal on, so he has no excuses


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Cheers.
		
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Arsenal on EPLSite as well


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 31, 2017)

Quiet transfer deadline day so far. It seems like Palace are the biggest panic buyer but there is time for that to change still.


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## sawtooth (Jan 31, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Arsenal on EPLSite as well 

Click to expand...

Not watching something I haven't paid for.&#128537;


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## Hobbit (Jan 31, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Quiet transfer deadline day so far. It seems like Palace are the biggest panic buyer but there is time for that to change still.
		
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I'm hoping Boro get a new manager...


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## pbrown7582 (Jan 31, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Why won't you be watching Arsenal V Watford tonight? People might think you're getting infatuated with Lpool 

Click to expand...

why wasn't this moved to Wednesday as Watford had to play sunday? Miserable arsene!


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## User62651 (Jan 31, 2017)

If Celtic sell Dembele for Â£30M to Chelsea as rumoured (he flew to London today 'for a knee scan' on deadline day ) after acquiring him for Â£500k from Fulham no time ago it'll be yet another amazing bit of business for the club. Seem to have the keenest eye for scouting and player development/investment around....unlike their blue neighbours who spend loads on has beens. 

Wanyama
Forster
Van Dijk
Hooper

Tierney will be next to Liverpool probably for big bucks.


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## Fish (Jan 31, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			If Celtic sell Dembele for Â£30M to Chelsea as rumoured (he flew to London today 'for a knee scan' on deadline day ) after acquiring him for Â£500k from Fulham no time ago it'll be yet another amazing bit of business for the club. Seem to have the keenest eye for scouting and player development/investment around...
		
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I have a feeling we'll get Dembele which will release batshuayi to West Ham but we need Craig Gordon also so that Bergovic can be released to Bournemouth, I can see some kind of deal being done which must involve them both or none at all until the summer, to which there may be other options available then and they both miss out coming to the Champions


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 31, 2017)

Fish said:



			I have a feeling we'll get Dembele which will release batshuayi to West Ham but we need Craig Gordon also so that Bergovic can be released to Bournemouth, I can see some kind of deal being done which must involve them both or none at all until the summer, to which there may be other options available then and they both miss out coming to the Champions 

Click to expand...

I'd like to see Batshuayi stay,would Dembele get any more game time if he came? 
It's hard when Costa's in such good form.


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## User62651 (Jan 31, 2017)

What's wrong with Boruc at Bournemouth, having a decent season I think? He is 36 though and rumoured to be coming back to Celtic if Gordon goes south and Begovic goes to Bournemouth. Thought Begovic is better than Bournemouth with respect as he's in it for the football rather than just the money or else he'd stay at Chelsea.


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## Jensen (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Not watching something I haven't paid for.&#128537;
		
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Get off your high horse !

If Sky weren't so greedy and tried to rip me off when my deal ended, I'd still be with them. However to cancel and then come back with an offer at less than half price - too late.
As it is it's worked out for the better, I'll be watching Spurs v Sunderland tonight. With my android box I can choose what games to watch and don't have to rely on it being a providers choice what I watch.

Do I feel guilty, not in the slightest I was a Sky customer for over 20 years, but the cost is totally disproportionate in terms of how it has increased.

Switch on the box pet and I'll choose my game &#128077;&#128077;&#128077;&#128516;&#128516;


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## sawtooth (Jan 31, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Get off your high horse !

If Sky weren't so greedy and tried to rip me off when my deal ended, I'd still be with them. However to cancel and then come back with an offer at less than half price - too late.
As it is it's worked out for the better, I'll be watching Spurs v Sunderland tonight. With my android box I can choose what games to watch and don't have to rely on it being a providers choice what I watch.

Do I feel guilty, not in the slightest I was a Sky customer for over 20 years, but the cost is totally disproportionate in terms of how it has increased.

Switch on the box pet and I'll choose my game &#128077;&#128077;&#128077;&#128516;&#128516;
		
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I was joking mate, Paul was asking why I wasn't watching the Arsenal match and I said that it wasn't on Sky. Then I discovered the Liverpool match was on BT and although I pay for that I couldn't watch it abroad on Sky Go  .

Now I may end up forced to watch it online stream ( unless on Czech TV or in the bar) I will watch the Arsenal match and channel flick to watch the Liverpool goals go in.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Get off your high horse !

If Sky weren't so greedy and tried to rip me off when my deal ended, I'd still be with them. However to cancel and then come back with an offer at less than half price - too late.
As it is it's worked out for the better, I'll be watching Spurs v Sunderland tonight. With my android box I can choose what games to watch and don't have to rely on it being a providers choice what I watch.

Do I feel guilty, not in the slightest I was a Sky customer for over 20 years, but the cost is totally disproportionate in terms of how it has increased.

Switch on the box pet and I'll choose my game &#128077;&#128077;&#128077;&#128516;&#128516;
		
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Just as a warning that ISPs soon will be told that all the streams etc will have to be blocked by them - there is a lot of stuff going on in the background from Sky , Virgin Media and BT to tackle the Android and Stream box issue as it does have a knock on affect - a lot more people are illegally streaming via the Android Boxes over the last 12 months.


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## Fish (Jan 31, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			I'd like to see Batshuayi stay,would Dembele get any more game time if he came? 
It's hard when Costa's in such good form.
		
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Getting Dembele to settle in now for Costa replacement rather than wait until the summer and a possible increase in value and/or more competition, get him now IMO is good business.


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## Jensen (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I was joking mate, Paul was asking why I wasn't watching the Arsenal match and I said that it wasn't on Sky. Then I discovered the Liverpool match was on BT and although I pay for that I couldn't watch it abroad on Sky Go  .
		
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Ah, egg &#127859; on my face there, only hope it's sunny side up !


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2017)

Fish said:



			I have a feeling we'll get Dembele which will release batshuayi to West Ham but we need Craig Gordon also so that Bergovic can be released to Bournemouth, I can see some kind of deal being done which must involve them both or none at all until the summer, to which there may be other options available then and they both miss out coming to the Champions 

Click to expand...

Is that a loan deal for Batshuayi ? that was a big transfer 6 months ago and leaving already ? 

Hasn't Gordon already said no as he has just resurrected his career so why would he want to sit on the bench ? Same with Dembele - why move when he would be replacing another young player who currently just sits on the bench.


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## NWJocko (Jan 31, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just as a warning that ISPs soon will be told that all the streams etc will have to be blocked by them - there is a lot of stuff going on in the background from Sky , Virgin Media and BT to tackle the Android and Stream box issue as it does have a knock on affect - a lot more people are illegally streaming via the Android Boxes over the last 12 months.
		
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Aren't Sky/Virgin/BT the ISP in 90% of instances aswell?

Just interested what is out of their control I guess, don't know enough about it, maybe for another thread.  I've no doubt Sky (in particular) are worried as their content has massively reduced but price hasn't over the years........

I've got an Android Box but hardly use it tbh, especially not for live sport, lots of good movies and documentaries on it though.


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## Fish (Jan 31, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is that a loan deal for Batshuayi ? that was a big transfer 6 months ago and leaving already ? 

Hasn't Gordon already said no as he has just resurrected his career so why would he want to sit on the bench ? Same with Dembele - why move when he would be replacing another young player who currently just sits on the bench.
		
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Batshuayi would go to West Ham on loan if we secured Dembele as a long term prospect to replace Costa who will almost definitely leave in the summer, then he (Batshuayi) would return for next season, if he (Dembele) doesn't come then Batshuayi stays but I'm not sure he's our No1 striker replacement!

Gordon is keen to come to Chelsea, it's Rodgers who's saying no and Craig and his agent are in discussions with Celtic, he's currently on Â£12k a week and fancies earning 3 times that which is on the table.  I think there will be some last minute dealings with Chelsea all based on those leaving now and in the summer.


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## sawtooth (Jan 31, 2017)

Fish said:



			Batshuayi would go to West Ham on loan if we secured Dembele as a long term prospect to replace Costa who will almost definitely leave in the summer, then he (Batshuayi) would return for next season, if he (Dembele) doesn't come then Batshuayi stays but I'm not sure he's our No1 striker replacement!

Gordon is keen to come to Chelsea, it's Rodgers who's saying no and Craig and his agent are in discussions with Celtic, he's currently on Â£12k a week and fancies earning 3 times that which is on the table.  I think there will be some last minute dealings with Chelsea all based on those leaving now and in the summer.
		
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You seriously don't want to land Craig Gordon mate, There's a reason he's on 12K a week.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2017)

Fish said:



			Batshuayi would go to West Ham on loan if we secured Dembele as a long term prospect to replace Costa who will almost definitely leave in the summer, then he (Batshuayi) would return for next season, if he (Dembele) doesn't come then Batshuayi stays but I'm not sure he's our No1 striker replacement!

Gordon is keen to come to Chelsea, it's Rodgers who's saying no and Craig and his agent are in discussions with Celtic, he's currently on Â£12k a week and fancies earning 3 times that which is on the table.  I think there will be some last minute dealings with Chelsea all based on those leaving now and in the summer.
		
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So Dembele who is learning week in week out because he is playing every week would go to a club to sit on the bench ? So you could have Â£80 mill worth of young talent but not playing - will be surprised if Dembele goes in Jan knowing that he won't play often because of Costa and seeing how Batshuayi has had minimal playing time - they both need to be playing. Come the summer then can see as you say Costa leaving and certainly a big search for a replacement. 

Talksport had Gordon also not wanting to leave to just sit on the bench - especially when you look at how hard he has had to work to get his career back on track and is now Scotland number one again - but guess the money will talk


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## Fish (Jan 31, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So Dembele who is learning week in week out because he is playing every week would go to a club to sit on the bench ? So you could have Â£80 mill worth of young talent but not playing - will be surprised if Dembele goes in Jan knowing that he won't play often because of Costa and seeing how Batshuayi has had minimal playing time - they both need to be playing. Come the summer then can see as you say Costa leaving and certainly a big search for a replacement. 

Talksport had Gordon also not wanting to leave to just sit on the bench - especially when you look at how hard he has had to work to get his career back on track and is now Scotland number one again - but guess the money will talk
		
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Where's the Â£80m on the bench come from, Batshuayi cost us Â£33m and will go to West Ham to play regular I'd think and Dembele who would cost us Â£30m to prise him away would rotate with Costa or maybe take another role that we don't know about to play with Costa for the remainder of the season, either way I think he's being earmarked as Costa's replacement and if so, then Batshuayi would return to play second fiddle or be rotated with Dembele.

I think the club (Conte) would rather move now on these players than wait until the summer, as such the bench warming would only be temporary as they'd both play much bigger parts next season and be more settled in through training and playing some games in PL now on rotation.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 31, 2017)

You have to laugh sometimes....Jerome Sinclair having decided Liverpool weren't seeing his talents decided on a move to Watford.......now gone on loan to Birmingham. Another young one who's head is filled with hot air.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2017)

Fish said:



			Where's the Â£80m on the bench come from, Batshuayi cost us Â£33m and will go to West Ham to play regular I'd think and Dembele who would cost us Â£30m to prise him away would rotate with Costa or maybe take another role that we don't know about to play with Costa for the remainder of the season, either way I think he's being earmarked as Costa's replacement and if so, then Batshuayi would return to play second fiddle or be rotated with Dembele.
		
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Radio had Dembele costing upwards of Â£40mil 

Why don't they rotate Batshuayi with Costa right now - would Dembele really play any more than what Batshuayi is. And Batshuayi to play second fiddle ? At Â£33mil that's an expensive back up player. Or will it turn into another Lukaku. I'll be amazed if Dembele leaves right now and for Chelsea - the record for young players there isn't the greatest since Abramovich arrived and the only way it makes sense is for money ( so that's it done ) 



			I think the club (Conte) would rather move now on these players than wait until the summer, as such the bench warming would only be temporary as they'd both play much bigger parts next season and be more settled in through training and playing some games in PL now on rotation.
		
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Would Chelsea and indeed the manager take the risk on young potential players ? Doesn't seem the blueprint for Chelsea over the last decade - more the established players , but will be interesting to see if the patience is there to allow these players to develop.

As for the "Transfer Deadline" Day on Sky - again it's proving to be an overblown damp squid from sky. They appear to be leaping onto any social media rumour and even branching out around Europe and no one of note is moving


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## Fish (Jan 31, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Radio had Dembele costing upwards of Â£40mil 

Why don't they rotate Batshuayi with Costa right now - would Dembele really play any more than what Batshuayi is. And Batshuayi to play second fiddle ? At Â£33mil that's an expensive back up player. Or will it turn into another Lukaku. I'll be amazed if Dembele leaves right now and for Chelsea - the record for young players there isn't the greatest since Abramovich arrived and the only way it makes sense is for money ( so that's it done ) 


Would Chelsea and indeed the manager take the risk on young potential players ? Doesn't seem the blueprint for Chelsea over the last decade - more the established players , but will be interesting to see if the patience is there to allow these players to develop.
		
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Conte is different, as we've all seen, so I don't think the blueprint is that obvious, regular PL games at West Ham for Batshuayi could be excellent for him then to return more experienced, I think if we get Dembele and dependent on some forthcoming fixture results, could see more game time for those second string forwards, its all guess work but were obviously planning ahead and Conte obviously has his own strategy!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2017)

Fish said:



			Conte is different, as we've all seen, so I don't think the blueprint is that obvious, regular PL games at West Ham for Batshuayi could be excellent for him then to return more experienced, I think if we get Dembele and dependent on some forthcoming fixture results, could see more game time for those second string forwards, its all guess work but were obviously planning ahead and Conte obviously has his own strategy!
		
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Certainly would be a move from the previous years with the youngsters - Chelsea could have had hell of a team. Hope your owner has the same picture as Conte 

The issue for this season though is Chelsea going for the title so going to be very risky not playing Costa. 

Think Dembele is streets ahead in terms of potential compared to Batshuayi- get Dembele for under Â£40mil and that's a great signing. Think Batshuayi will go on loan at some stage but won't come back - in fairness not seen massive amount of him but when have he doesn't seem to have that something extra special ?


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 31, 2017)

Why wouldn't you persevere with the player and give him a chance? It's normally said a foriegn player needs a year to get used to the Premiership and it's teams.


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## Fish (Jan 31, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Certainly would be a move from the previous years with the youngsters - Chelsea could have had hell of a team. Hope your owner has the same picture as Conte 

The issue for this season though is Chelsea going for the title so going to be very risky not playing Costa. 

Think Dembele is streets ahead in terms of potential compared to Batshuayi- get Dembele for under Â£40mil and that's a great signing. Think Batshuayi will go on loan at some stage but won't come back - in fairness not seen massive amount of him but when have he doesn't seem to have that something extra special ?
		
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Well Dembele was in London today so I think our interest is more than just a fishing exercise and I think he is what Conte wants to replace Costa, if he comes then Batshuayi goes immediately to West Ham, as Costa them leaves for China or somewhere else in the summer Batshuayi hopefully returns with a lot of PL game time under his belt which I am sure Conte will be monitoring, we'll then know if he's what we need to bring back or sell on or extend the loan deal.

I think Conte knows what he wants and he must be in good books with Roman currently so lets strike while the iron is hot and the owner is belly up, well before 8pm anyway :smirk:


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## Fish (Jan 31, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Why wouldn't you persevere with the player and give him a chance? It's normally said a foriegn player needs a year to get used to the Premiership and it's teams.
		
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If you're on about Batshuayi then we can't take too many risks on the unknown in the position we are in currently in the table, he'll come on when we can take Costa off or play in the FA cup etc, but that's not enough to know if he's the real deal for next season so loaning him to West Ham for regular game time is good for us and the player and we can then monitor him, Conte will know a bit about him from training but it's on the pitch that counts.


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## ger147 (Jan 31, 2017)

You can never say never in football but I can't see Celtic selling either Gordon or Dembele tonight.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2017)

Fish said:



			Well Dembele was in London today so I think our interest is more than just a fishing exercise and I think he is what Conte wants to replace Costa, if he comes then Batshuayi goes immediately to West Ham, as Costa them leaves for China or somewhere else in the summer Batshuayi hopefully returns with a lot of PL game time under his belt which I am sure Conte will be monitoring, we'll then know if he's what we need to bring back or sell on or extend the loan deal.

I think Conte knows what he wants and he must be in good books with Roman currently so lets strike while the iron is hot and the owner is belly up, well before 8pm anyway :smirk:
		
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Seems that he had a scan on his knee with a specialist in London and is on his way back to Glasgow after the scan - Sky have no move to Chelsea and indeed no bids or talks ? 

Two bids for Gordon turned down and he isn't moving anywhere as well.


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 31, 2017)

Is Dembele actually any good? 
Let's not forget he's playing in the same league that's currently making Brenda look like a worldie manager &#129300;


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## Fish (Jan 31, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seems that he had a scan on his knee with a specialist in London and is on his way back to Glasgow after the scan - Sky have no move to Chelsea and indeed no bids or talks ? 

Two bids for Gordon turned down and he isn't moving anywhere as well.
		
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We may have been kept in the loop regarding the scan, maybe not, I'm sure if it's a no then Conte has his eye on someone else, but if not then Batshuayi stays and it's business as usual, which hasn't done us too bad this season, it's all just been about preparation for next year I think with the summer moves that are definitely happening!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 31, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			I'm hoping Boro get a new manager...
		
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Who do you fancy? Pardew is available &#128561;


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2017)

The wally in Yellow Jim White has arrived to ramp up the hype from Sky even more 

They really are trying to overhype deals that are happening - it appears the massive huge transfer news with a massive fee is Jordan Rhodes from Boro to Sheff Wed !


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## NWJocko (Jan 31, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Is Dembele actually any good? 
Let's not forget he's playing in the same league that's currently making Brenda look like a worldie manager &#129300;
		
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And the same league that Wanyama, Forster, van Dijk came from very recently.

I've not seen much of him tbh, prices are crazy now but, based on how previous Celtic players moving have fared I'd guess he'd be more than capable in the "best league in the world".


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2017)

NWJocko said:



			And the same league that Wanyama, Forster, van Dijk came from very recently.

I've not seen much of him tbh, prices are crazy now but, based on how previous Celtic players moving have fared I'd guess he'd be more than capable in the "best league in the world".
		
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Certainly looks the real deal and more than capable of playing to a high level in other leagues , seems to have a bit of X Factor to his game. I still can't see him going to Chelsea even in the summer and also Utd - the track record of the club and the manager at Man Utd will put off young players  - other clubs in the Prem - prob City who don't mind splashing the cash and then playing the young players. Celtic have done well in recent years getting players in and then they have gone on to play at a high level.


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## NWJocko (Jan 31, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Certainly looks the real deal and more than capable of playing to a high level in other leagues , seems to have a bit of X Factor to his game. I still can't see him going to Chelsea even in the summer and also Utd - the track record of the club and the manager at Man Utd will put off young players  - other clubs in the Prem - prob City who don't mind splashing the cash and then playing the young players. Celtic have done well in recent years getting players in and then they have gone on to play at a high level.
		
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I'd be surprised at the top teams looking at him aswell really but he's stil young.

Celtic have been very astute like you say in terms of the players they're getting in then selling on the EPL. Must have made a fortune on the 3 players that went to Southampton........


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## USER1999 (Jan 31, 2017)

Usual Arsenal start.


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Usual Arsenal start.
		
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beyond ridiculous, and still nothing changes


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## USER1999 (Jan 31, 2017)

fundy said:



			beyond ridiculous, and still nothing changes
		
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French bloke needs to go. Best squad for ages, and totally clueless. Will probably still win, but that isnt the point.


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## USER1999 (Jan 31, 2017)

Now 0 2. Flipping heck.


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			French bloke needs to go. Best squad for ages, and totally clueless. Will probably still win, but that isnt the point.
		
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same old, still no leaders on the pitch, still no defensive midfielders worth having, groundhog day starting to grate thats for sure


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## anotherdouble (Jan 31, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Now 0 2. Flipping heck.
		
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Don't panic Murph. Long long way to go and Watford will eventually defend too deep and you will pick them off. Just like Bournemouth.


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## USER1999 (Jan 31, 2017)

Where is Sean when you need him. I need him to explain how this is all part of Wengers master plan. Ok, there are no easy games, apparently, but to be fair, they dont come easier than Watford.


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## USER1999 (Jan 31, 2017)

Ramsey now injured, and substitutted.


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## Slime (Jan 31, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Now 0 2. Flipping heck.
		
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Excellent stuff from Watford, hopefully Chelsea and Sunderland will follow suit :thup:.


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## sawtooth (Jan 31, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Where is Sean when you need him. I need him to explain how this is all part of Wengers master plan. Ok, there are no easy games, apparently, but to be fair, they dont come easier than Watford.
		
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Just got settled in hotel and turned on to see 0-2. I had a word and we will start playing very soon.


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Just got settled in hotel and turned on to see 0-2. I had a word and we will start playing very soon.
		
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have a word with your idol and ask if we can start playing from the first minute in future


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## Fish (Jan 31, 2017)

:whoo: What a strike


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## Slime (Jan 31, 2017)

By all accounts, a massive favour from Mignolet for United :whoo:.


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## anotherdouble (Jan 31, 2017)

Slime said:



			By all accounts, a massive favour from Mignolet for United :whoo:.
		
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He wasn't even looking.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 31, 2017)

Slime said:



			By all accounts, a massive favour from Mignolet for United :whoo:.
		
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Went over the wall, not the keepers side, don't even think the Chelsea players knew Luiz was going to take it, superb strike.


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## Break90 (Jan 31, 2017)

Fish said:



			:whoo: What a strike
		
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what a clown


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Went over the wall, not the keepers side, don't even think the Chelsea players knew Luiz was going to take it, superb strike.
		
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Id still expect a keeper to save that one. 
If they were actually looking and ready to dive that is. 

Mane looks uncomfortable too now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2017)

The GK just wasn't set and ready for the free kick - nice helping hand though from Clattenburg - never a free kick in a million years after Hazard goes down easily. 

Chelsea just sitting deep with 11 men behind the ball happy with what they have  , we can't get through the bus going through the middle , need width and pace to stretch the back 5


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 31, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Id still expect a keeper to save that one. 
If they were actually looking and ready to dive that is. 

Mane looks uncomfortable too now.
		
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How, he went over the wall at pace and hit the inside of the post, Ming was covering the other side, all the credit goes to Luiz, very few if any keepers wouldn't of got anywhere near it.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2017)

Whilst I agree it's  not a free kick. From the angle he had, clattenberg (who infuriates me) couldn't have seen the knee on the ball. 

Think there will will be more goals for Chelsea as they still look to counter and liverpools attack is rather toothless.


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## anotherdouble (Jan 31, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The GK just wasn't set and ready for the free kick - nice helping hand though from Clattenburg - never a free kick in a million years after Hazard goes down easily. 

Chelsea just sitting deep with 11 men behind the ball happy with what they have  , we can't get through the bus going through the middle , need width and pace to stretch the back 5
		
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It's always easy to play against a one dimensional team.


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## garyinderry (Jan 31, 2017)

Its all gone pete tong 

 'twas super strike.  Keeper would have struggled to save that Luiz strike even if he was completely set. 


The rags were full today of Wenger saying his forward line is better than the invincibles.  Bound to draw a blank after that.


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## Fish (Jan 31, 2017)

Break90 said:



			what a clown
		
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Like to expand..


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2017)

Giroud gone off just after half time, another injury?


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			How, he went over the wall at pace and hit the inside of the post, Ming was covering the other side, all the credit goes to Luiz, very few if any keepers wouldn't of got anywhere near it.
		
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Imthink he was going to be covering the other side. But as it hit he wasn't even looking. He was still shouting at the wall. 

Whetehr hed he'd have got across, ok I accept he may not have. But he wasn't prepared.


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## Break90 (Jan 31, 2017)

Fish said:



			Like to expand..
		
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the keeper.......


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 31, 2017)

I guess Slippy never got a free kick he didn't deserve :rofl:

Watch replays of the free kick, the Chelsea players didn't expect Luiz to take it, they aren't ready either, brilliant quick thinking.


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## Fish (Jan 31, 2017)

Just seen a chopper Harris style _tackle_ from a Sunderland player on Spurs, how it's not a straight red god only know, he was gritting his teeth as he lashed out and scythed the player down!


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 31, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The GK just wasn't set and ready for the free kick - nice helping hand though from Clattenburg - never a free kick in a million years after Hazard goes down easily. 

Chelsea just sitting deep with 11 men behind the ball happy with what they have  , we can't get through the bus going through the middle , need width and pace to stretch the back 5
		
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GK not good but have to say even if he was set the wall is that side and I don't think any keeper in the world would save that.

fantastic free kick!

never a foul but you see this every week.

oficials don't even know you can't be offside if the ball is played backwards.

best ref in the world think the jury's out on that one.

But game has gone to the script up to now.

very frustrating.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2017)

From the replay behind goal, I'm not sure what the wall was doing. Looked to be guarding the outside of the post? We're they expected a reverse of roberto Carlos in France?


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## pokerjoke (Jan 31, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			How, he went over the wall at pace and hit the inside of the post, Ming was covering the other side, all the credit goes to Luiz, very few if any keepers wouldn't of got anywhere near it.
		
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Agreed don't think the keeper would save it,it does however take the direct blame away from the rest of the team so far toothless and I don't think they have any idea how to break Chelsea down.

Seems like Mane could be injured and the even more toothless Sturridge to save the day.

Liverpool free falling and no parachute to save them lmao


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 31, 2017)

What a miss. Liverpool started brightly though but should be level


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2017)

Fish said:



			Just seen a chopper Harris style _tackle_ from a Sunderland player on Spurs, how it's not a straight red god only know, he was gritting his teeth as he lashed out and scythed the player down!
		
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the Rodwell one? how thats not red ill never know


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## Fish (Jan 31, 2017)

Soft goal to give away by our defence standards..


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## Fish (Jan 31, 2017)

Poorly taken penalty by Costa


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 31, 2017)

Fish said:



			Poorly taken penalty by Costa
		
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That might come back to bite yer. Rubbish penalty


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## Break90 (Jan 31, 2017)

Fish said:



			Poorly taken penalty by Costa
		
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what a legend...


(the keeper, for avoidance of doubt)


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## Hobbit (Jan 31, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Who do you fancy? Pardew is available &#63025;
		
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There was a guy selling big issue on Linthorpe Road on Saturday who I'd take. Karanka knows how to coach and manage a defence but he's clueless with attack. Too much of a one trick pony for me.


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## sawtooth (Jan 31, 2017)

Disappointing result tonight but that's football. 

Hopefully not too much damage done if Liverpool can hold Chelsea that will do nicely.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 31, 2017)

Perhaps another one who is better as a coach than a manager. Plenty of examples over the years.


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## richy (Jan 31, 2017)

Arsenal TV will be glorious tonight
#cringe


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Disappointing result tonight but that's football. 

Hopefully not too much damage done if Liverpool can hold Chelsea that will do nicely.
		
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do you actually believe what you post? Not too much damage done losing at home to Watford? Really?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 31, 2017)

Tonight's just made the relegation battle a bit more interesting. Leicester fans must be very worried.


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## Dan2501 (Jan 31, 2017)

3 pretty poor performances in the last 4 league games for Arsenal. Scabbed a draw against Bournemouth, a dodgy penalty got you the win against Burnley and now a home defeat to Watford. Not looking good for them, but not unfamiliar, this is usually when they go to pot in the title race.


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## Fish (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Disappointing result tonight but that's football. 

Hopefully not too much damage done if Liverpool can hold Chelsea that will do nicely.
		
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I don't understand your logic, to protect your current position surely you want Liverpool to lose not be sat on your shoulder waiting to pounce over you dropping you down because you're tom kite! You need to pull away from those immediately around you, not worry about Chelsea, were 9 points away from you!


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## Fish (Jan 31, 2017)

Kante, what a player, what an engine...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 31, 2017)

Fair result imo.


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## Dan2501 (Jan 31, 2017)

Kante's the best central midfield player in the world. Would walk into any side.


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## USER1999 (Jan 31, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			3 pretty poor performances in the last 4 league games for Arsenal. Scabbed a draw against Bournemouth, a dodgy penalty got you the win against Burnley and now a home defeat to Watford. Not looking good for them, but not unfamiliar, this is usually when they go to pot in the title race.
		
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Yep, ground hog day. The only constant is Wenger. He just is so done.


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## sawtooth (Jan 31, 2017)

Fish said:



			I don't understand your logic, to protect your current position surely you want Liverpool to lose not be sat on your shoulder waiting to pounce over you dropping you down because you're tom kite! You need to pull away from those immediately around you, not worry about Chelsea, were 9 points away from you!
		
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There's still the title to play for. Beat you at the weekend and the gap is closed to 6.

Not giving up yet with 15 games to play.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 31, 2017)

Fair result overall. Chelsea happiest of all the top sides with the others slipping up though


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Kante's the best central midfield player in the world. Would walk into any side.
		
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Depends what you want from your cm. 

today at at least he seemed to be winning balls back every 5 seconds as he was giving it away quite a bit. 

Certianly a could player for a defensive minded team.


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## Fish (Jan 31, 2017)

Arsenal losing, Spurs drawing, I'll take that point and run, even with the missed penalty.   9 points clear after what was being billed as a title decider along with the Arsenal game to come, which on balance, I'll be more worried about playing Burnley away in 2 weeks :smirk:


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## anotherdouble (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Disappointing result tonight but that's football. 

Hopefully not too much damage done if Liverpool can hold Chelsea that will do nicely.
		
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City and united win tomorrow will cause you to look over your shoulder. Then talk about not much damage done


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## Piece (Jan 31, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Don't panic Murph. Long long way to go and Watford will eventually defend too deep and you will pick them off. Just like Bournemouth.
		
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The only decent defending was done by the team in yellow 

:whoo:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2017)

Played better tonight , massive improvement than over the last couple weeks , not much between the teams at the end of the day and a fair result. 

After Arsenal losing :rofl: , Spurs only drawing then it's a big ask for anyone to catch Chelsea.


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## Fish (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			There's still the title to play for. Beat you at the weekend and the gap is closed to 6.

Not giving up yet with 15 games to play.
		
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You can't beat Watford, where's your run going to come from, this is your time to implode, and it started tonight...

I'd be more worried about hanging on to 4th if I was you, your setting your sights too high!

#Deluded


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## garyinderry (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			There's still the title to play for. Beat you at the weekend and the gap is closed to 6.

Not giving up yet with 15 games to play.
		
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Its still a disaster result.   welbeck should have been on the bench.  Couldn't believe he was left out altogether.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 31, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			City and united win tomorrow will cause you to look over your shoulder. Then talk about not much damage done
		
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If Everton win tomorrow Arsenal and Spurs are closer to 7th than they are 1st :rofl:


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## Slime (Jan 31, 2017)

I should think both Manchester clubs are ecstatic after tonights results.
The four teams above them managed a combined total of just three points.
Great evening for United ...................... as long as they don't cock up tomorrow!!


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## pokerjoke (Jan 31, 2017)

Fair play to Liverpool dug in 2nd half and a draw a fair result.

Can we take advantage tomorrow?of course we can


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 31, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Fair result overall. Chelsea happiest of all the top sides with the others slipping up though
		
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We could have won that but we're lucky not to lose.

Firmino poor finishing.

better from the Reds but same system really wasn't working no width we need to get a good wide player that can take someone on and put a proper cross in.

I would have taken a draw at 8oclock.


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## sawtooth (Jan 31, 2017)

Still pretty much as we were and Chelsea to come at the weekend.

No easy games and lots of twists before the end of the season.

Chelsea hardly blowing teams away, infact the 2 last top 6 teams played they took only 1 point. Plenty to play for.


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## USER1999 (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Still pretty much as we were and Chelsea to come at the weekend.

No easy games and lots of twists before the end of the season.

Chelsea hardly blowing teams away, infact the 2 last top 6 teams played they took only 1 point. Plenty to play for.
		
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Sorry, but this is everything that is wrong with Arsenal. I am annoyed. I am livid. If the players, and the manager, were half as annoyed as i am, they would be winning these games. It is nothing but excuses. Watford are rubbish. A huge number of my friends are Watford fans, and they would admit it. Arsenal should batter Watford, and just accepting a defeat, oh, it was a bit difficult, typifies what is wrong, from top to bottom. Flipping heck am i annoyed at that rubbish.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Still pretty much as we were and Chelsea to come at the weekend.

No easy games and lots of twists before the end of the season.

Chelsea hardly blowing teams away, infact the 2 last top 6 teams played they took only 1 point. Plenty to play for.
		
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Who are you trying to convince 

Tonight both Arsenal and Spurs had the perfect opportunity to close the gap and to show that they are serious contenders and once again your team blew it "again" - only have to read the last couple of pages to show that you are going to be the last person to realise it 

It was a shocking result for Arsenal - amazed at Wellbeck not even being on the bench.


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## Hobbit (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			There's still the title to play for. Beat you at the weekend and the gap is closed to 6.

Not giving up yet with 15 games to play.
		
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Dream on, you're done. If you get 5th I'll bare my bum in Woolies window.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Sorry, but this is everything that is wrong with Arsenal. I am annoyed. I am livid. If the players, and the manager, were half as annoyed as i am, they would be winning these games. It is nothing but excuses. Watford are rubbish. A huge number of my friends are Watford fans, and they would admit it. Arsenal should batter Watford, and just accepting a defeat, oh, it was a bit difficult, typifies what is wrong, from top to bottom. Flipping heck am i annoyed at that rubbish.
		
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Fair play, and a proper response imo. 

All well ill and good fans saying now real damage. 

 It in a few weeks if Arsenal play a CL rival (league gone imo) and get a draw, I'm sure most of other rivals will beat bottom clubs at home.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 31, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Sorry, but this is everything that is wrong with Arsenal. I am annoyed. I am livid. If the players, and the manager, were half as annoyed as i am, they would be winning these games. It is nothing but excuses. Watford are rubbish. A huge number of my friends are Watford fans, and they would admit it. Arsenal should batter Watford, and just accepting a defeat, oh, it was a bit difficult, typifies what is wrong, from top to bottom. Flipping heck am i annoyed at that rubbish.
		
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Unfortunately Murph tonight's result is why some of the top players at Arsenal  say sod it am off.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 31, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Dream on, you're done. If you get 5th I'll bare my bum in Woolies window.
		
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How can we save this post to refer back to at the end of the season?

And just to be clear, while Woolies may have disappeared from the UK high street it is still present in several other countries including Holland and Germany so I assume that your declaration is global not purely UK based.


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## Piece (Jan 31, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Sorry, but this is everything that is wrong with Arsenal. I am annoyed. I am livid. If the players, and the manager, were half as annoyed as i am, they would be winning these games. It is nothing but excuses. *Watford are rubbish. A huge number of my friends are Watford fans, and they would admit it.* Arsenal should batter Watford, and just accepting a defeat, oh, it was a bit difficult, typifies what is wrong, from top to bottom. Flipping heck am i annoyed at that rubbish.
		
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:mmm: Steady on. We're not great, but we're certainly not rubbish.


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## sawtooth (Jan 31, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Sorry, but this is everything that is wrong with Arsenal. I am annoyed. I am livid. If the players, and the manager, were half as annoyed as i am, they would be winning these games. It is nothing but excuses. Watford are rubbish. A huge number of my friends are Watford fans, and they would admit it. Arsenal should batter Watford, and just accepting a defeat, oh, it was a bit difficult, typifies what is wrong, from top to bottom. Flipping heck am i annoyed at that rubbish.
		
Click to expand...

Its a 38 game season, judge Wenger at the end of the season. Still everything to play for. At least wait to see what happens you might be surprised in May. Wenger showed how much he cared and showed how much he was annoyed last week and got a ban for his troubles. 

Chin up fella its really not the end of the world and the title push will be back on track with a win at Chelsea. Its a pity to lose tonight but it would not surprise me in the least if Wenger gets a +ve response from the players at the weekend.

And credit to the other team its not always about Arsenal.:thup:


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## Hobbit (Jan 31, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			How can we save this post to refer back to at the end of the season?

And just to be clear, while Woolies may have disappeared from the UK high street it is still present in several other countries including Holland and Germany so I assume that your declaration is global not purely UK based.
		
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Absolutely! Not bared my bum in a Germany city for quite a few years.


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## anotherdouble (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Still pretty much as we were and Chelsea to come at the weekend.

No easy games and lots of twists before the end of the season.

Chelsea hardly blowing teams away, infact the 2 last top 6 teams played they took only 1 point. Plenty to play for.
		
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As long as you are happy that's all that matters. I also don't want to see Wenger to go as it means one less team we have to worry about. My only concern is for you Sean and what happens when your run of top 4 finishes ends. As it has to one day.


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## sawtooth (Jan 31, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Unfortunately Murph tonight's result is why some of the top players at Arsenal  say sod it am off.
		
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Yeah because its so much better at City.


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## Hobbit (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Its a 38 game season, judge Wenger at the end of the season. Still everything to play for. At least wait to see what happens you might be surprised in May. Wenger showed how much he cared and showed how much he was annoyed last week and got a ban for his troubles. 

Chin up fella its really not the end of the world and the title push will be back on track with a win at Chelsea. Its a pity to lose tonight but it would not surprise me in the least if Wenger gets a +ve response from the players at the weekend.

And credit to the other team its not always about Arsenal.:thup:
		
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And if you lose you'll be 12points adrift, 5 games with that goal difference. I expect Chelsea to win. Do you expect Chelsea to lose 5 games in the next 15, and Arsenal to win theirs?

Fish's #deluded is almost gold plated.


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## Fish (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Still pretty much as we were and Chelsea to come at the weekend.

No easy games and lots of twists before the end of the season.

*Chelsea hardly blowing teams away*, infact the 2 last top 6 teams played they took only 1 point. Plenty to play for.
		
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Were not playing as well as we have and can, BUT, we're still picking up points, when you don't play well you lose, that's the difference and with less and less games to play you seem to think that Chelsea will lose at least 4 games from 15 left and someone underneath us will go on an unbeaten run, can you really see that happening, seriously!

As Murph says, it's these attitudes in and around you're stadium that is wrong at Arsenal, your all in denial and overly obsessed and besotted by Wenger, it's time (well its long overdue) to cut that umbilical cord... 

#GroundhogDay


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## Tashyboy (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah because its so much better at City. 

Click to expand...

Dont think anyone else on here will agree with you, inc me.

but seeing as you mention it, Arsenal are our feeder club and we have had a few players off them who have gone onto win titles whilst the Arsenal haven't, again.


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## sawtooth (Jan 31, 2017)

Fish said:



			Were not playing as well as we have and can, BUT, we're still picking up points, when you don't play well you lose, that's the difference and with less and less games to play you seem to think that Chelsea will lose at least 4 games from 15 left and someone underneath us will go on an unbeaten run, can you really see that happening, seriously!

As Murph says, it's these attitudes in and around you're stadium that is wrong at Arsenal, your all in denial and overly obsessed and besotted by Wenger, it's time (well its long overdue) to cut that umbilical cord... 

#GroundhogDay
		
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Yeah well if you went back a month when Liverpool won 4 in a row culminating in a win against City, they were flying. Would any Liverpool supporter believe that they would then go on and take only 1 point from the next 12 available? 

Don't think Chelsea are untouchable just because they are top and that they haven't lost many up till now. That can all change in a blink of an eye. If you don't think that can happen then I suggest you are in denial yourself.


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## sawtooth (Jan 31, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Dont think anyone else on here will agree with you, inc me.

but seeing as you mention it, Arsenal are our feeder club and we have had a few players off them who have gone onto win titles whilst the Arsenal haven't, again.
		
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Why wouldn't they? You're 4 points behind in the league.


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## Fish (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Why wouldn't they? You're 4 points behind in the league.
		
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With a game in hand!


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## sawtooth (Jan 31, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			And if you lose you'll be 12points adrift, 5 games with that goal difference. I expect Chelsea to win. Do you expect Chelsea to lose 5 games in the next 15, and Arsenal to win theirs?

Fish's #deluded is almost gold plated.
		
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I don't have any expectation I am just saying that anything is possible. If its all sewn up why don't you go down the bookies in the morning and place Â£100 on Chelsea, it should be the easiest Â£30 you will ever make if its that much of a banker.


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## sawtooth (Jan 31, 2017)

Fish said:



			With a game in hand!
		
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Since when do you get 4 points for a win?


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## fundy (Jan 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Why wouldn't they? You're 4 points behind in the league.
		
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be level or ahead of us by the end of the weekend


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 31, 2017)

Just seen the Rodwell assault the referee is 5 yds away.
you get booked for hitting someone with your hankie these days that was a red card.
if he can't see that from 5 yds he should not be refereeing in any league .
Rodwell should be ashamed of himself that could end the lads career.
i have always said a challenge like this deliberately bringing player down ( professional foul) nowhere near the ball should be red anyway.
very unprofessional from Rodwell but because he was booked that's the end of it.
That rule needs changing so he can get what that deserved.


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## davemc1 (Feb 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah well if you went back a month when Liverpool won 4 in a row culminating in a win against City, they were flying. Would any Liverpool supporter believe that they would then go on and take only 1 point from the next 12 available? 

we've had 3 draws and a loss in our last 4 league games. Bleeding awful but not 3 loses and a draw.
		
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## davemc1 (Feb 1, 2017)

point taken from a game full of ifs and buts.

 I thought the ref was shocking

No mention of Costa's dive? maybe cos it wasn't Sturridge... :smirk:


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## pbrown7582 (Feb 1, 2017)

or maybe it wasn't that much of a dive.


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## Piece (Feb 1, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just seen the Rodwell assault the referee is 5 yds away.
you get booked for hitting someone with your hankie these days that was a red card.
if he can't see that from 5 yds he should not be refereeing in any league .
Rodwell should be ashamed of himself that could end the lads career.
i have always said a challenge like this deliberately bringing player down ( professional foul) nowhere near the ball should be red anyway.
very unprofessional from Rodwell but because he was booked that's the end of it.
That rule needs changing so he can get what that deserved.
		
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Agree. A cowardly challenge that was worthy of a double red!


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## Fish (Feb 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Since when do you get 4 points for a win?
		
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The point was, if they win the game in hand they are only 1 point behind, and then....


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## Fish (Feb 1, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			point taken from a game full of ifs and buts.

 I thought the ref was shocking

No mention of Costa's dive? maybe cos it wasn't Sturridge... :smirk:
		
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Because nobody saw a dive, not even a hint of a mention from any of the 2 different panels or commentators I was watching the match on or on here, your the first!


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## Tashyboy (Feb 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			The point was, if they win the game in hand they are only 1 point behind, and then....
		
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I think everyone that point Fish, apart from one person. &#128513;


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## Fish (Feb 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah well if you went back a month when Liverpool won 4 in a row culminating in a win against City, they were flying. Would any Liverpool supporter believe that they would then go on and take only 1 point from the next 12 available? 

Don't think Chelsea are untouchable just because they are top and that they haven't lost many up till now. That can all change in a blink of an eye. If you don't think that can happen then I suggest you are in denial yourself.
		
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It could all change in a blink of an eye if you have a dodgy unorganised inconsistent defence leaking goals and have no cover on the bench should any of them get injured, does that sound like Chelsea or bare any reference to their defensive qualities throughout this season so far &#129300;

You made reference some time ago stating that Chelsea's defence was poor and yet at that time 2 of the back 3 featured in players & team of the week/month! 

The back 3 formation works excellent especially with well drilled wing backs dropping back automatically when not in possession but pushing forward at every opportunity with Matic & Kante sat in front of them, it perfectly suits the current players and squad and is very difficult to breakdown, it's solid defensively and frightening when breaking away on the counter and then linking with Hazard, Willian, Pedro or Costa & co. 

Your just frustrated as it's business as usual at the Emirates but this season the difference is that 4th place isn't that secure with 15 games to go and everyone breathing down your neck, your focus (obsession) with us is misplaced, your title hopes are over, you need to concentrate on a top 4 position and willing on Liverpool to win was laughable with both Manchesters within touching distance of you! 

But, the rest of London and possibly the country all want Wenger to stay, because in him we trust &#128540;

#LongLiveWenger


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 1, 2017)

I've been saying for a while, every other teams fans wants Wenger to stay. That must say something. He keeps Arsenal safe and unthreatening. Up near the top but never actually scaring other teams. 

Chelsea have a power about them at the moment. They don't seem to have many weaknesses. Even if Costa has an off day they are not leaking goals, others step up. Chelsea have perhaps been lucky through few injuries at this stage but you need that. Maybe they also train in a smarter way, maybe they don't buy fragile players. Either way they will have to have some slump in form to lose at this stage.

You have to give a big hats off to Conte. New country, new league and he adjusted very quickly. All of this without being nasty or bitter. He seems a classy bloke. I don't even dislike Chelsea quite as much as I used to.


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## Fish (Feb 1, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I've been saying for a while, every other teams fans wants Wenger to stay. That must say something. He keeps Arsenal safe and unthreatening. Up near the top but never actually scaring other teams. 

Chelsea have a power about them at the moment. They don't seem to have many weaknesses. Even if Costa has an off day they are not leaking goals, others step up. Chelsea have perhaps been lucky through few injuries at this stage but you need that. Maybe they also train in a smarter way, maybe they don't buy fragile players. Either way they will have to have some slump in form to lose at this stage.

You have to give a big hats off to Conte. New country, new league and he adjusted very quickly. All of this without being nasty or bitter. He seems a classy bloke. I don't even dislike Chelsea quite as much as I used to.
		
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ðŸ‘

With Zouma back we have good cover at the back,  we have good cover across the park with a strong squad to cover injuries or suspensions, so I think we're in very good shape, we can score from many areas and not just rely on Costa too much. 

We had a Â£35m bid for Dembele turned down and we failed to land Inter Milan midfielder Jonathan Biabiany. 

We also had a Â£26m bid for Italy midfielder Antonio Candreva rejected by Inter Milan. 

We missed out on signing Craig Gordon forcing us to block Asmir Begovic's Â£10m switch to Bournemouth. 

So we're looking to strengthen still on what is already a strong squad but there will be some leavers & retirements in the summer to offset against new arrivals. 

What a great maiden season Conte has had and Kante must be the signing of the year.


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## Slime (Feb 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			What a great maiden season Conte has had and Kante must be the signing of the year.
		
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Unfotunately, I think the above is why Chelsea will win the Premier League at a canter.
It's now a five team scrap for the next three places.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 1, 2017)

And all this is why the Premieship is the best league in Europe.... it's such an open book.


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## Dan2501 (Feb 1, 2017)

City and United win tonight and there's 3 points separating 2nd and 6th. Those Champions League spots really are all to play for.


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## stokie_93 (Feb 1, 2017)

Could be avoiding this thread after playing all you bluenoses tonight


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 1, 2017)

Stokie - It could go either way. Not a bet to include on your accumulator if you are someone who likes a flutter. I feel like we have a bit of momentum at the moment but our season has not been one of consistency.


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## sawtooth (Feb 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			The point was, if they win the game in hand they are only 1 point behind, and then....
		
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Still behind though buddy and the point I was making was that City aren't doing any better than Arsenal at this moment.

Toshy said no one would agree with this. Am I missing something.


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## stokie_93 (Feb 1, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Stokie - It could go either way. Not a bet to include on your accumulator if you are someone who likes a flutter. I feel like we have a bit of momentum at the moment but our season has not been one of consistency.
		
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Our track record against Everton hasn't been brilliant recently. Although we beat you away last season you drummed us at our place. 
I didn't actually see the game between us earlier this season as I was out of the country but from what I heard it was tight. 

It's a big game really, we need to be trying to push on for 7th but you've been in great form recently. 
Weve got West Brom at the weekend too so another massive game. 

Id happily take 4 points whichever way round that happens.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			ðŸ‘

With Zouma back we have good cover at the back,  we have good cover across the park with a strong squad to cover injuries or suspensions, so I think we're in very good shape, we can score from many areas and not just rely on Costa too much. 

We had a Â£35m bid for Dembele turned down and we failed to land Inter Milan midfielder Jonathan Biabiany. 

We also had a Â£26m bid for Italy midfielder Antonio Candreva rejected by Inter Milan. 

We missed out on signing Craig Gordon forcing us to block Asmir Begovic's Â£10m switch to Bournemouth. 

So we're looking to strengthen still on what is already a strong squad but there will be some leavers & retirements in the summer to offset against new arrivals. 

What a great maiden season Conte has had and Kante must be the signing of the year.
		
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With regards the signings Chelsea were rumoured to be bidding for - why wouldn't they first look at the players they already own. Abraham for example is doing exactly what Dembele did in the Championship last year - scoring lots of goals - why spend Â£35mil plus on him when they could try out players like Abraham or Batshuayi , same with someone like Biabany - Chelsea have over 20 players out on loan playing at a decent level - they already own them so why look to spend further money on young potential when there is already a long queue of players waiting to be used ?


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## Tashyboy (Feb 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Still behind though buddy and the point I was making was that City aren't doing any better than Arsenal at this moment.

Toshy said no one would agree with this. Am I missing something.
		
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Ah say who's Toshy, I could get upset &#128513;, just to clear up a misunderstanding on my part, I meant to say that no one would disagree ( not agree) on this site with you re City this year as they have been hit and miss. As a City fan it's a bit more obvious to me coz I see it every other week. The games v Barca, Arsenal, Chelsea have been excellent performances. The games v Everton, Leicester etc have been Rammel.
Glad that's cleared up &#128077;


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## Dan2501 (Feb 1, 2017)

I think it did Chelsea no harm at all missing out on those signings. Begovic is a WAY better back-up keeper than Craig Gordon. They have much better wingers in the squad than Biabiany and Candreva already. Â£26m on Candreva would have been an awful lot of money for a fairly average 29 year old. As for Dembele, he does have tons of potential, but as LP mentioned, so does Tammy Abraham, why not give him a go first? or at least give Batshuayi some game time before bringing anyone else in. Conte did very well in the transfer window over the summer, Kante was a superb signing, but his targets in January are a little on the strange side.


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## Tarkus1212 (Feb 1, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			I think it did Chelsea no harm at all missing out on those signings. Begovic is a WAY better back-up keeper than Craig Gordon. They have much better wingers in the squad than Biabiany and Candreva already. Â£26m on Candreva would have been an awful lot of money for a fairly average 29 year old. As for Dembele, he does have tons of potential, but as LP mentioned, so does Tammy Abraham, why not give him a go first? or at least give Batshuayi some game time before bringing anyone else in. Conte did very well in the transfer window over the summer, Kante was a superb signing, but his targets in January are a little on the strange side.
		
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That's if you believe the rumours. I think the Dembele bid has credence but I'm very sceptical about the rumoured bids for Biabiany and Candreva.

Begovic wants more playing time and I believe he was told that he could go if a decent replacement could be found. No point trying to hold on to unhappy players. He may rethink in the summer assuming we secure a CL place.


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## Fish (Feb 1, 2017)

He, Conte, and no doubt reports back from his staff regarding loan players is sufficient for him to know he needs more finished articles within the squad to be able to fill any gaps he is already aware of who will be leaving in the summer. 

Trusting and developing young players is all well and good but sitting them on the bench doesn't give them enough game time to develop, the PL clubs and its managers is a results based tough league  and unfortunately it is a race not a marathon, the face of football has changed now in that respect. 

An example of that is, Chelsea, Man Utd & City's bench's exceeds Â£120m each and are full of internationals, Liverpools is barely Â£30m with I think 3 young players, yes that's great for the emotive home grown fan but IF Liverpool who are now out of all cups and COULD drop out the top 4, how good is that phylosphy then when it's a results driven sport.  Also, how many on that weaker bench can come on and change the game.  Surely they are best out on loan playing regular PL football and if they then show promise, bring them back, if not, leave them out there until they are worth selling to that host club who they obviously suit better than a return to the Bridge. 

Personally with how we are seeing Liverpool playing under Klopp with a high intensity, you need a much stronger bench than what you have as you have no depth of experience to rotate or come into the team when there are injuries or suspensions or when a player needs a rest!   The other main title contenders all can, I think that's a huge difference currently and is why Liverpool just won't cut into that finished article, they will start the season running but don't have an experienced bench to maintain it.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			He, Conte, and no doubt reports back from his staff regarding loan players is sufficient for him to know he needs more finished articles within the squad to be able to fill any gaps he is already aware of who will be leaving in the summer. 

Trusting and developing young players is all well and good but sitting them on the bench doesn't give them enough game time to develop, the PL clubs and its managers is a results based tough league  and unfortunately it is a race not a marathon, the face of football has changed now in that respect. 

An example of that is, Chelsea, Man Utd & City's bench's exceeds Â£120m each and are full of internationals, Liverpools is barely Â£30m with I think 3 young players, yes that's great for the emotive home grown fan but IF Liverpool who are now out of all cups and COULD drop out the top 4, how good is that phylosphy then when it's a results driven sport.  Also, how many on that weaker bench can come on and change the game.  Surely they are best out on loan playing regular PL football and if they then show promise, bring them back, if not, leave them out there until they are worth selling to that host club who they obviously suit better than a return to the Bridge. 

Personally with how we are seeing Liverpool playing under Klopp with a high intensity, you need a much stronger bench than what you have as you have no depth of experience to rotate or come into the team when there are injuries or suspensions or when a player needs a rest!   The other main title contenders all can, I think that's a huge difference currently and is why Liverpool just won't cut into that finished article, they will start the season running but don't have an experienced bench to maintain it.
		
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I fully agree,re the players on bench needing to be able to contribute if you want a successful team, but i think for Chelsea certainly, the idea that payers will go out on loan and then come back is a bit of a smoke screen, you may sell some for a little profit, but home many players in the last decade have actually come back. 

Chelsea simply don't nurture their own anymore.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 1, 2017)

So why look to buy Dembele who is less proven than Batshuayi and far from a finished ? If young players aren't going to be trusted at Chelsea then why buy them and ultimately why would a youngster go there knowing they will be either shipped out on loan or just say on a bench , wonder if Batshuayi regrets his move right now - hot property from the Euro now just a very expensive substitute.

And as for Liverpool and many other clubs - we don't have a billionaire who is happy to spend Â£150 million on players who won't play - if we are spending that much money it's on players for the first 11 , not many clubs can afford to pay massive wages to keep players happy to sit on a bench - and I personally wouldn't want players who are happy just picking up a wage to sit and wait


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 1, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So why look to buy Dembele who is less proven than Batshuayi and far from a finished ? If young players aren't going to be trusted at Chelsea then why buy them and ultimately why would a youngster go there knowing they will be either shipped out on loan or just say on a bench , wonder if Batshuayi regrets his move right now - hot property from the Euro now just a very expensive substitute.

And as for Liverpool and many other clubs - we don't have a billionaire who is happy to spend Â£150 million on players who won't play - if we are spending that much money it's on players for the first 11 , not many clubs can afford to pay massive wages to keep players happy to sit on a bench - and I personally wouldn't want players who are happy just picking up a wage to sit and wait
		
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Phil yet again you're talking utter rubbish. 
So you wouldn't want a bench full of quality players to give the manager more options when needed? 

I suppose Liverpool are doing things the right way? 
Come on then who are all these  stars of the future coming through at Liverpool?


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## Tashyboy (Feb 1, 2017)

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh Kevin de bryuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuune.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 1, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So why look to buy Dembele who is less proven than Batshuayi and far from a finished ? If young players aren't going to be trusted at Chelsea then why buy them and ultimately why would a youngster go there knowing they will be either shipped out on loan or just say on a bench , wonder if Batshuayi regrets his move right now - hot property from the Euro now just a very expensive substitute.

And as for Liverpool and many other clubs - we don't have a billionaire who is happy to spend Â£150 million on players who won't play - if we are spending that much money it's on players for the first 11 , not many clubs can afford to pay massive wages to keep players happy to sit on a bench - and I personally wouldn't want players who are happy just picking up a wage to sit and wait
		
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Well phil I won't knock your honesty, looks like UEFA cup again next year then.


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## fundy (Feb 1, 2017)

that would be the gap to city down to 1 point then, good to see arsenal really didnt lose much last night lol


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## Tashyboy (Feb 1, 2017)

High Ho Silva lining.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 1, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Well phil I won't knock your honesty, looks like UEFA cup again next year then.
		
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Eh ? Why will it be Europe League next year ?


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 1, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Eh ? Why will it be Europe League next year ?
		
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Because your squad isn't good enough,obviously &#128580;
Neither is the manager by the looks of it&#128584;
But as long as you're happy &#128077;&#127995;


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## davemc1 (Feb 1, 2017)

city look great when they get it together. fear for west ham, it could be another cricket score...


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 1, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			city look great when they get it together. fear for west ham, it could be another cricket score...
		
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If they'd kept Joe Hart & Kompany wasn't plagued by injury they'd be in contention for the title imo.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 1, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Because your squad isn't good enough,obviously &#63044;
Neither is the manager by the looks of it&#63048;
But as long as you're happy &#62541;&#62459;
		
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Thats why phil, but I disagree with the manager bit, think he is good enough but players like Sturridge are just not good enough for a staring eleven. 
Would any of the others that are looking at a top four finish want Sturridge. Well City and Chelsea did then didn't, and there's no way Arsenal or spuds would, even the rags don't need him.


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 1, 2017)

Liverpool's next 7 games look like they will determine the rest of their season...

Hull (a), Spurs (h), Leicester (a), Arsenal (h), Burnley (h), Man City (a), Everton (h)

They should beat Hull away and Burnley at home but then Arsenal should have beaten Watford at home. 21 points on offer there and I'm not sure that I would bet on them getting more than 12 in total.

By comparison Man City have.....

Swansea (h), Bournemouth (a), Sunderland (a), Stoke (h), Liverpool (h), Arsenal (a), Chelsea (a)

And Man Utd have....

Leicester (a), Watford (h), Bournemouth (h), Southampton (a), Boro (a), West Brom (h), Everton (h)

Would definitely choose Utds next 7 fixtures to either of the other two. Could easily see them getting 17 or 18 points from those games and putting them clear of both City and Liverpool.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 1, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			If they'd kept Joe Hart & Kompany wasn't plagued by injury they'd be in contention for the title imo.
		
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Top four would do me this year PS.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 1, 2017)

Jeeeeeeesuuuuuuuuuuuuussssssssss


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 1, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Top four would do me this year PS.
		
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Best you can hope for now pal. 
I'd be surprised if you didn't tbh. 
GK needs to be top of Peps shopping list in the summer. 
I never thought Hart was brilliant,but he's steady. 
Bravo is shocking.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 1, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Jeeeeeeesuuuuuuuuuuuuussssssssss
		
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Got a feeling that he could be very good &#128547;


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 1, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Thats why phil, but I disagree with the manager bit, think he is good enough but players like Sturridge are just not good enough for a staring eleven. 
Would any of the others that are looking at a top four finish want Sturridge. Well City and Chelsea did then didn't, and there's no way Arsenal or spuds would, even the rags don't need him.
		
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Well the finally finishing positions haven't been decided and our squad has been good enough to be in the Top 4 so far - had our injuries , players away and they are now coming back and we are still there. People have been writing us off all season yet still there. Sturridge will still play a part during the rest of the season - won't start many games but will come on. Got all the tougher games left to play at home. Still confident that we can stay in the Top 4 but there is a long way to go yet and all the teams are going to drop points including Chelsea.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 1, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well the finally finishing positions haven't been decided and our squad has been good enough to be in the Top 4 so far - had our injuries , players away and they are now coming back and we are still there. People have been writing us off all season yet still there. Sturridge will still play a part during the rest of the season - won't start many games but will come on. Got all the tougher games left to play at home. Still confident that we can stay in the Top 4 but there is a long way to go yet and all the teams are going to drop points including Chelsea.
		
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People have been writing you off as title contenders all season,not top 4&#128077;&#127995; 
And you're not still there. 

It's not the "tougher games" that are the problem. 
It's the Sunderlands & Swansea's you need to worry about.


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## Fish (Feb 1, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			People have been writing you off as title contenders all season,not top 4&#128077;&#127995; 

And you're not still there. .
		
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They are level now but 4th only on goal difference, which is reducing massively at West Ham &#128514;

Man Utd need to score and win to stay in contention, especially as there goal diffetence is the poorest of all the top 4 contenders.   

Some of those bottom clubs are not 3 point bankers, they are fighting for their PL lives and the likes of Burnley & Hull will kill off some dreams of a top 4 place I think in the coming weeks. .


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			They are level now but 4th only on goal difference, which is reducing massively at West Ham &#128514;

Man Utd need to score and win to stay in contention, especially as there goal diffetence is the poorest of all the top 4 contenders.   

Some of those bottom clubs are not 3 point bankers, they are fighting for their PL lives and the likes of Burnley & Hull will kill off some dreams of a top 4 place I think in the coming weeks. .
		
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I don't think there are any bankers in the Prem now. 
Ok Sunderland/Hull are poor,but it's not a massive shock if they take points off a top 4 team.


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## Fish (Feb 1, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			I don't think there are any bankers in the Prem now. 
Ok Sunderland/Hull are poor,but it's not a massive shock if they take points off a top 4 team.
		
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But Hull are no mugs and have been very unlucky with some results, I think the Hull Vs Liverpool match is the toughest and most decisive this weekend and it could change so many positions from 3rd to 6th, that's if united nick a late winner and irrelevant of what happens at the Bridge, and if Hull hold out tonight there confidence will be high for Liverpools visit.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 1, 2017)

Al take that.


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## Fish (Feb 1, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Al take that.
		
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And the same again against the Swans will get back that much need goal difference.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			But Hull are no mugs and have been very unlucky with some results, I think the Hull Vs Liverpool match is the toughest and most decisive this weekend and it could change so many positions from 3rd to 6th, that's if united nick a late winner and irrelevant of what happens at the Bridge, and if Hull hold out tonight there confidence will be high for Liverpools visit.
		
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Hull are definitely going down along with Sunderland imo. 
Then it's Palace,boro or Leicester. 
I'll probably go Leicester.


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## Slime (Feb 1, 2017)

I can't believe what's going on at OT.
YET AGAIN the opponents' goalkeeper turns into Manuel Neuer and gets  Man of the Match.
United blew it big time.
Very poor.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 1, 2017)

Well of the top seven to of played last two nights, only City won.:whoo:


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## garyinderry (Feb 1, 2017)

Great point for hull.  Could have nicked it.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			And the same again against the Swans will get back that much need goal difference.
		
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Got a feeling that Swansea will be better organised though.


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## Fish (Feb 1, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Hull are definitely going down along with Sunderland imo. 
Then it's Palace,boro or Leicester. 
I'll probably go Leicester.
		
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I think the bottom is as interesting as the top, you wouldn't bet against Boro, Leicester & Swansea all losing and if Hull based on tonight's performance get 3 points then that brings all the bottom 6 well into play and any of those 5 could join Sunderland in a relegation scrap right to the end.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 1, 2017)

Decent point at Stoke, bit of controversy over the Everton equaliser, replays showed it was a Shawcross og.
Stoke missed a couple of bad ones in the 1st half and the Stoke keeper pulled off a couple of great saved in the 2nd, bith teams will probably feel they should've won.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 1, 2017)

Slime said:



			I can't believe what's going on at OT.
YET AGAIN the opponents' goalkeeper turns into Manuel Neuer and gets  Man of the Match.
United blew it big time.
Very poor.
		
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To be fair De Gea has been saving Utds bacon for a while now. Utd can't begrudge another keeper doing the same to them.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think the bottom is as interesting as the top, you wouldn't bet against Boro, Leicester & Swansea all losing and if Hull based on tonight's performance get 3 points then that brings all the bottom 6 well into play and any of those 5 could join Sunderland in a relegation scrap right to the end.
		
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Good 6 pointer on Saturday, Palace at home to SLand.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 1, 2017)

Had a look on twitter tonight for a link to the Everton game and got HD via Malaysia, English commentary, got to live modern technology :whoo:


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## Fish (Feb 1, 2017)

Slime said:



			I can't believe what's going on at OT.
YET AGAIN the opponents' goalkeeper turns into Manuel Neuer and gets  Man of the Match.
United blew it big time.
Very poor.
		
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I know mathematically it's obviously still possible but not winning at home and with only 3 possibly 4 clear chances on goal, is that the end of a top 4 position, taking into consideration you have a very poor goal difference also, has it now turned into a top 5?


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## garyinderry (Feb 1, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			To be fair De Gea has been saving Utds bacon for a while now. Utd can't begrudge another keeper doing the same to them.
		
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The inside of the post saved them tonight along with HernÃ¡ndez's inability to bring the ball under control after being clean through.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 1, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			To be fair De Gea has been saving Utds bacon for a while now. Utd can't begrudge another keeper doing the same to them.
		
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Totally agree. 

Added to the fact they could have lost too. 

The fact a keeper gets mom agaisnt them means their attacking players aren't doing well enough imo. Win2/3-0 and the goalkeepers saves are forgotten.


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## sawtooth (Feb 1, 2017)

Arsenal had a bad night last night but honestly could not have chosen a better week for it to happen. All sides at the top dropped points to some extent with the exception of City. 

A much improved performance and win on Saturday against Chelsea and we will be right back in with a shout, 6 points behind with 42 to play for. Not all finished in my book.


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## Old Colner (Feb 1, 2017)

Really pleased no one has mentioned The Clarets in the talk of the relegation places recently, another fantastic result at home last night but home games coming up against the top teams and away games against the bottom ones.
Hopefully the points will keep ticking over and not stalling, it would be great to be safe by the end of March, relax a little and enjoy the rest of the season.


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## Fish (Feb 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Arsenal had a bad night last night but honestly could not have chosen a better week for it to happen. All sides at the top dropped points to some extent with the exception of City. 

A much improved performance and win on Saturday against Chelsea and we will be right back in with a shout, 6 points behind with 42 to play for. Not all finished in my book.
		
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They may have all dropped points but they didn't lose, there's a huge difference imo

What points do you think will win the league this season, 90+, if so you've got to win every single match from now, seriously!  Add to that your average points finish, which to me is mid 80's at best and that would mean getting another 38 from 45, I don't think you have that in your locker but if you did, that would mean Chelsea only need 30 points from 45 to be ahead of you! 

Your a dreamer &#128540;


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## stokie_93 (Feb 1, 2017)

A point definitely a fair draw I think there. We should've been 3-1 at half time. Arnie missed 2 absolute sitters. 

Lee Grant with a top class save though, brilliant signing for us.


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## Fish (Feb 1, 2017)

stokie_93 said:



			A point definitely a fair draw I think there. We should've been 3-1 at half time. Arnie missed 2 absolute sitters. 

Lee Grant with a top class save though, brilliant signing for us.
		
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So Lukaku wasn't in an active position and offside?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			So Lukaku wasn't in an active position and offside?
		
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Lukaku wasn't in keepers line of sight and Shawcross touched it last, stupid rule not happy if given against you.


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## Fish (Feb 1, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Lukaku wasn't in keepers line of sight and Shawcross touched it last, stupid rule not happy if given against you.
		
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Line of site isn't the rule, he (Lukaka) went for the ball which makes him active and then offside irrelevant of anyone then putting it in the net!


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## sawtooth (Feb 2, 2017)

Fish said:



			They may have all dropped points but they didn't lose, there's a huge difference imo
		
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Yeah 1 point difference lol.

We will see on Saturday a win for Arsenal cuts gap to 6. 

You're due a blip and if you lose key players at this stage who knows what can happen.


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## Fish (Feb 2, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah 1 point difference lol.

We will see on Saturday a win for Arsenal cuts gap to 6. 

You're due a blip and if you lose key players at this stage who knows what can happen.
		
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I think we have good cover for all positions across the park, no issues there imo.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 2, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think we have good cover for all positions across the park, no issues there imo.
		
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If Chelsea lost Costa for a significant period then it would impact quite severely - got a third of the league goals and a lot of them have been winning goals , he has been the form player , even when Chelsea were struggling to break down a team Costa has delivered with a goal to win the match or has made a match winning impact - he is the one player Chelsea can't afford to lose for any significant length of time. Kante would also be a massive miss .


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 2, 2017)

Fish said:



			Line of site isn't the rule, he (Lukaka) went for the ball which makes him active and then offside irrelevant of anyone then putting it in the net!
		
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He wasn't active as the ball came off Shawcross, Lukaku was therefore not involved, if he'd of been in front of Shawcross and Grant, ie line of sight for keeper, he would of been deemed active, he didn't interfere with play.


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## Fish (Feb 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			He wasn't active as the ball came off Shawcross, Lukaku was therefore not involved, if he'd of been in front of Shawcross and Grant, ie line of sight for keeper, he would of been deemed active, he didn't interfere with play.
		
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Hughes clearly stated that Lukaka made a play for the ball, that's all that's needed to be offside the rest is immaterial.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 2, 2017)

Fish said:



			Hughes clearly stated that Lukaka made a play for the ball, that's all that's needed to be offside the rest is immaterial.
		
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Thankfully Shawcross deflected it in, if he'd of missed it and it had reached Lukaku it would've been disallowed, stupid rule.


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## Fish (Feb 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If Chelsea lost Costa for a significant period then it would impact quite severely - got a third of the league goals and a lot of them have been winning goals , he has been the form player , even when Chelsea were struggling to break down a team Costa has delivered with a goal to win the match or has made a match winning impact - he is the one player Chelsea can't afford to lose for any significant length of time. Kante would also be a massive miss .
		
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But he's going to get some of those goals purely for the position he plays in, who's to say Hazard playing in that same position (as he has) wouldn't have got as many?  Ok I accept he doesn't have the strength of Costa for some of those hard fought goals he's got but they'd be offset by different skills Hazard possesses. 

I think we have a good deep squad who would step up and in quite well with any injury losses.


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## The Autumn Wind (Feb 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If Chelsea lost Costa for a significant period then it would impact quite severely - got a third of the league goals and a lot of them have been winning goals , he has been the form player , even when Chelsea were struggling to break down a team Costa has delivered with a goal to win the match or has made a match winning impact - he is the one player Chelsea can't afford to lose for any significant length of time. Kante would also be a massive miss .
		
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Take a look at the scores from Chelsea v Bournemouth and Leicester v Chelsea recently when Costa was missing. No problem with cover there at all. Kante though would be a bigger loss, but Fabregas would bring other qualities.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 2, 2017)

Fish said:



			But he's going to get some of those goals purely for the position he plays in, who's to say Hazard playing in that same position (as he has) wouldn't have got as many?  Ok I accept he doesn't have the strength of Costa for some of those hard fought goals he's got but they'd be offset by different skills Hazard possesses. 

I think we have a good deep squad who would step up and in quite well with any injury losses.
		
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Hazards not a central striker and his form fluctuates depending on the wind no doubt , just look at Tuesday - Costa was fighting and battling all game long using his strength and fight and scares Centre Backs so they stand off him and he used that to create himself chances which he scores. Hazard is very skilful but goes down at the slightest touch and just doesn't seem to be there for the fight and the battle and as a central striker with his back to goal wouldn't scare CB's - running from deep at them and creating he would scare them so I don't think you could replace Costa with Hazard in that role. It's why i expect Conte to look at someone like Morata or Lukaku in the summer if Costa leaves - someone who can play that central big striker role. Costa has been massive this year for Chelsea - player of the season at the moment for me - without him Chelsea wouldn't be at the top with the gap they have.


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## Slime (Feb 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			To be fair De Gea has been saving Utds bacon for a while now. Utd can't begrudge another keeper doing the same to them.
		
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I can and I will .
The difference is that DE Gea performs to that level week after week whereas the opponents' 'keepers have their game of the season at Old Trafford.
I'll NEVER forgive them for that .





Fish said:



			I know mathematically it's obviously still possible but not winning at home and with only 3 possibly 4 clear chances on goal, *is that the end of a top 4 position*, taking into consideration you have a very poor goal difference also, has it now turned into a top 5?
		
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Certainly not!
We're six points off second spot on our own and still 45 points on offer.
It's harder than it should have been due to last night's fiasco, but still certainly attainable.


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## stokie_93 (Feb 2, 2017)

Fish said:



			So Lukaku wasn't in an active position and offside?
		
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I've watched it so many times mate and I still don't have a clue 

not voicing an an opinion on it as I'm just not sure. 
Without that decision however, Craig Pawson is a shambles of a ref.


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## Fish (Feb 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hazards not a central striker and his form fluctuates depending on the wind no doubt , just look at Tuesday - Costa was fighting and battling all game long using his strength and fight and scares Centre Backs so they stand off him and he used that to create himself chances which he scores. Hazard is very skilful but goes down at the slightest touch and just doesn't seem to be there for the fight and the battle and as a central striker with his back to goal wouldn't scare CB's - running from deep at them and creating he would scare them so I don't think you could replace Costa with Hazard in that role. It's why i expect Conte to look at someone like Morata or Lukaku in the summer if Costa leaves - someone who can play that central big striker role. Costa has been massive this year for Chelsea - player of the season at the moment for me - without him Chelsea wouldn't be at the top with the gap they have.
		
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I understand all that, I was only saying about Hazard standing in, as he has done to great effect when needed, we then simply change our set-up slightly and give him different wing forwards to work with and feed him, as I said, short term I think we can cope with injuries and/or suspensions, longer term, yes, we need to replace Costa with a similar strong striker and I'm sure Conte knows exactly what he wants based on how superbly he's done in his maiden season.

I think we have a very adaptable squad of players that can offer many different options in our play and tactics which is why I think if we lost a key player/s short term we could adapt very well, it will be different to see how we fare in the CL playing like we do currently.


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## Old Colner (Feb 2, 2017)

Slime said:



			I can and I will .
The difference is that DE Gea performs to that level week after week whereas the opponents' 'keepers have their game of the season at Old Trafford.
I'll NEVER forgive them for that .



I think you will find that Tom Heatons recent performance at OT was quite normal, been doing it week in week out for some time now.
		
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## Pin-seeker (Feb 2, 2017)

When key players are missing it's then upto the manager to come up with a solution. 
Conte did this when Costa wasn't available. 
No point in crying about what you haven't got.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 2, 2017)

stokie_93 said:



			I've watched it so many times mate and I still don't have a clue 

not voicing an an opinion on it as I'm just not sure. 
Without that decision however, Craig Pawson is a shambles of a ref.
		
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Apparently, he was in an offside position when the ball was crossed, but as he was behind Grant and Shawcross and never received the ball (thanks Shawcross) he is deemed to not been in an active role, as it was an iwn Lukaku position is immaterial, ridiculous when he was stood in the 6yd box.


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## drewster (Feb 2, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			When key players are missing it's then upto the manager to come up with a solution. 
Conte did this when Costa wasn't available. 
No point in crying about what you haven't got.
		
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Agreed, as much as i dislike Chelsea , you just cannot argue with where they are and their adaptability to change when required. Huge, but begrudging, respect to Conte , he's been the difference and has the answers when his high profile peer group seem to be left floundering for ideas at times.


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## Fish (Feb 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Apparently, he was in an offside position when the ball was crossed, but as he was behind Grant and Shawcross and never received the ball (thanks Shawcross) he is deemed to not been in an active role, as it was an iwn Lukaku position is immaterial, ridiculous when he was stood in the 6yd box.
		
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Again your highlighting things that are not relevant, if Lukaku made any attempt towards the ball it should have been flagged offside, he does not need to receive it, he becomes active in an offside position if he makes any kind of attempt to get the ball irrelevant if someone gets to it first!


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 2, 2017)

Oh to go back to the old system of offside. No confusion, no ambiguity.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 2, 2017)

Just received an email from Everton asking me to answer a questionnaire about the design of a future kit. Good questionnaire and I like what the club have done with this. How long before it gets hijacked by Liverpool fans asking for a red kit?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 2, 2017)

Fish said:



			Again your highlighting things that are not relevant, if Lukaku made any attempt towards the ball it should have been flagged offside, he does not need to receive it, he becomes active in an offside position if he makes any kind of attempt to get the ball irrelevant if someone gets to it first!
		
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It was a goal, the Ref was right, Lukaku is irrelevant once Shawcross touched it, you highlighting Lukaku is pointless, we could have had 3 players stood offside and they'd been deemed inactive as well


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## Fish (Feb 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			It was a goal, the Ref was right, Lukaku is irrelevant once Shawcross touched it, you highlighting Lukaku is pointless, we could have had 3 players stood offside and they'd been deemed inactive as well
		
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I don't agree, Lukaku is in an offside position when the ball is played by his team-mate, it's obviously hit Ryan on the way through *but Lukaku has made a movement and if you make a movement you are distracting the keeper,* that makes him active and offside!

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/stok...-mark-hughes/story-30106066-detail/story.html


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 2, 2017)

Fish said:



			I don't agree, Lukaku is in an offside position when the ball is played by his team-mate, it's obviously hit Ryan on the way through *but Lukaku has made a movement and if you make a movement you are distracting the keeper,* that makes him active and offside!

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/stok...-mark-hughes/story-30106066-detail/story.html

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And I've agreed numerous times and was explaining why it was given.
Hughes is just moaning, Linesman thought Lukaku put it in the net, ref explained he never. Replace Shawcross with any Everton player and Lukaku would still be deemed inactive, regardless the fact me and you agree it's ridiculous.
It all hinges on the fact the ball never reached Lukaku despite his movement and position.

Same paper

http://m.stokesentinel.co.uk/stoke-...-pundit/story-30106696-detail/story.html[url]


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## Jensen (Feb 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Oh to go back to the old system of offside. No confusion, no ambiguity.
		
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In the words of the great Brian Clough "any player not trying to make an impact shouldn't be there"


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## Old Skier (Feb 2, 2017)

Jensen said:



			In the words of the great Brian Clough "any player not trying to make an impact shouldn't be there"
		
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Sounds like a misquote of Shankly


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 2, 2017)

I can understand doubt in certain parts of the pitch, but in the 18yd box it should be either your onside or your offside, none of this active rubbish.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Apparently, he was in an offside position when the ball was crossed, but as he was behind Grant and Shawcross and never received the ball (thanks Shawcross) he is deemed to not been in an active role, as it was an iwn Lukaku position is immaterial, ridiculous when he was stood in the 6yd box.
		
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The problem with decisions like this is lukaku in an offside position forces the defender to play the ball as he can't just let it go as Striker may not have been offside when the ball was played.
So striker is interfering in the defenders decision making .
This is a poor rule and I think we need to go back to you are offside or you are not end of , especially in the 18 yard box.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Just received an email from Everton asking me to answer a questionnaire about the design of a future kit. Good questionnaire and I like what the club have done with this. How long before it gets hijacked by Liverpool fans asking for a red kit?
		
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Same thing happend with City last year when they redesigned the new badge. It went down well with the fans, could not understand why we had an eagle on the badge, a pigeon yes, but there's no Eagles in Manchester. The three stars were for the three divisions we had been in apparantly. 

But the finished article re kit will not be to everyone's taste, you watch.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 2, 2017)

It's a good bit of pr Tashy, nothing more. They made a hash by changing the emblem a couple of years ago and so they are trying to be super inclusive. I doubt the kit mfr will take too much notice but the fans feel involved and that is good.

There is not a lot you can do with most first team kits. It is the away kit where you have more freedom and can have a bit of fun.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 2, 2017)

Old Skier said:



			Sounds like a misquote of Shankly
		
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Actually it was neither. The original was Danny Blanchflower in his capacity as a journalist rather than player.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's a good bit of pr Tashy, nothing more. They made a hash by changing the emblem a couple of years ago and so they are trying to be super inclusive. I doubt the kit mfr will take too much notice but the fans feel involved and that is good.

There is not a lot you can do with most first team kits. It is the away kit where you have more freedom and can have a bit of fun.
		
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What does me LT is that if it is a Nike kit, which ours is, then the kit looks the same as every other Nike team kit in the world, except the colours change.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Just received an email from Everton asking me to answer a questionnaire about the design of a future kit. Good questionnaire and I like what the club have done with this. How long before it gets hijacked by Liverpool fans asking for a red kit?
		
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Good work by the club, providing of course they then take into account some of the results. Otherwise there's no point at all


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 2, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			What does me LT is that if it is a Nike kit, which ours is, then the kit looks the same as every other Nike team kit in the world, except the colours change.
		
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They do seem to only have one design per cycle. Pretty poor when you think of the size of Nike / Adidas etc and the size of the market.


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## sawtooth (Feb 3, 2017)

I flew home today and watched more of the Liverpool Chelsea game. OMG that should never have been a free kick to Chelsea. Gerrard said Hazard was being clever winning the free kick as he knocked into Lallana - WTF?! I think he was being way too kind, I have another name for it - Cheating.

Win or lose I will accept the result tomorrow provided the best team wins and that cheating does not have a decisive part to play on either side.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I flew home today and watched more of the Liverpool Chelsea game. OMG that should never have been a free kick to Chelsea. Gerrard said Hazard was being clever winning the free kick as he knocked into Lallana - WTF?! I think he was being way too kind, I have another name for it - Cheating.

Win or lose I will accept the result tomorrow provided the best team wins and that cheating does not have a decisive part to play on either side.
		
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Gerrard probably knows that he's in no position to be criticising players for going down easy.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 3, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Gerrard probably knows that he's in no position to be criticising players for going down easy.
		
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Especially when he gave it to Demba :rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 3, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Especially when he gave it to Demba :rofl:
		
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&#128514;&#128514;&#128514; that's got to go down as the funniest moment in Premier League history.


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## sawtooth (Feb 3, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			&#62978;&#62978;&#62978; that's got to go down as the funniest moment in Premier League history.
		
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Certainly one of the cruellest moments in PL history, not sure Liverpool supporters found it very funny.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Certainly one of the cruellest moments in PL history, not sure Liverpool supporters found it very funny.
		
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Just shows how jealous most fans were of Liverpool having Gerrard......


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 3, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Just shows how jealous most fans were of Liverpool having Gerrard......
		
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Whys that?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Certainly one of the cruellest moments in PL history, not sure Liverpool supporters found it very funny.
		
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Nearly as cruel as slipping in the CL final


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 3, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Nearly as cruel as slipping in the CL final 

View attachment 21871

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Bless ya Phil &#128514;


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## Tashyboy (Feb 3, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Nearly as cruel as slipping in the CL final 

View attachment 21871

Click to expand...


Well done phil, what comes around goes around. Am sure we won the title that year when Gerrard did an impression of Bambi.


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## sawtooth (Feb 3, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Well done phil, what comes around goes around. Am sure we won the title that year when Gerrard did an impression of Bambi.
		
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Interesting season 2013/14

After 24 games (the same point in the season as after this weekends games), Liverpool were *6 points behind* City. They made that up and some. By the 35 game mark Liverpool were *6 points ahead* of City (although City had a game in hand - effectively 9 point swing). OK Liverpool still blew it in the last 3 games after making up all that ground but that's besides the point.

Point is,  Liverpool made 9 points on City from game week 24 to game week 35. 

If Arsenal beat Chelsea tomorrow and the chasing pack also win their games. There will 2 sides within 6 points, and 2 points within 7 points of Chelsea.

*1 *team in 2013/14 made up *9* points on City in less time and we could have *4* teams with only* 6/7 *points to catch after this weekend's games.

I do think people are writing this season off a bit too prematurely.

If Chelsea and Arsenal draw, 3 teams could still be 7/8 points behind (Arsenal still 9 points). Still do-able (Liverpool made up 9 points with fewer games in 2013/14 as per above).

If Chelsea win tomorrow and others around them lose. 12 points and I concede it will probably all be over, it would need a Newcastle style collapse.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Interesting season 2013/14

After 24 games (the same point in the season as after this weekends games), Liverpool were *6 points behind* City. They made that up and some. By the 35 game mark Liverpool were *6 points ahead* of City (although City had a game in hand - effectively 9 point swing). OK Liverpool still blew it in the last 3 games after making up all that ground but that's besides the point.

Point is,  Liverpool made 9 points on City from game week 24 to game week 35. 

If Arsenal beat Chelsea tomorrow and the chasing pack also win their games. There will 2 sides within 6 points, and 2 points within 7 points of Chelsea.

*1 *team in 2013/14 made up *9* points on City in less time and we could have *4* teams with only* 6/7 *points to catch after this weekend's games.

I do think people are writing this season off a bit too prematurely.

If Chelsea and Arsenal draw, 3 teams could still be 7/8 points behind (Arsenal still 9 points). Still do-able (Liverpool made up 9 points with fewer games in 2013/14 as per above).

If Chelsea win tomorrow and others around them lose. 12 points and I concede it will probably all be over, it would need a Newcastle style collapse.
		
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Liverpool had proven goalscorers and looked like getting something. Arsenal, and the others look like slipping up at any time. Even if Arsenal win tomorrow I don't think Chelsea will lose that many games and I can't see the chasing clubs winning often enough, and will have silly draws or defeats along the way. Just how I see it


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Interesting season 2013/14

After 24 games (the same point in the season as after this weekends games), Liverpool were *6 points behind* City. They made that up and some. By the 35 game mark Liverpool were *6 points ahead* of City (although City had a game in hand - effectively 9 point swing). OK Liverpool still blew it in the last 3 games after making up all that ground but that's besides the point.

Point is,  Liverpool made 9 points on City from game week 24 to game week 35. 

If Arsenal beat Chelsea tomorrow and the chasing pack also win their games. There will 2 sides within 6 points, and 2 points within 7 points of Chelsea.

*1 *team in 2013/14 made up *9* points on City in less time and we could have *4* teams with only* 6/7 *points to catch after this weekend's games.

I do think people are writing this season off a bit too prematurely.

If Chelsea and Arsenal draw, 3 teams could still be 7/8 points behind (Arsenal still 9 points). Still do-able (Liverpool made up 9 points with fewer games in 2013/14 as per above).

If Chelsea win tomorrow and others around them lose. 12 points and I concede it will probably all be over, it would need a Newcastle style collapse.
		
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Look I hate to be the one to brake it to you but 
ARSENAL WILL NOT WIN THE LEAGUE THIS SEASON! 

The only team capable of putting a run like that together is maybe City,but with their defence I can't see it. 
Spurs haven't got the bottle. 
Liverpool haven't got the players or the bottle. 
Arsenal are just Arsenal. 

So that makes Chelsea champions &#128540;&#128540;&#128540;


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## sawtooth (Feb 3, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Liverpool had proven goalscorers and looked like getting something. Arsenal, and the others look like slipping up at any time. Even if Arsenal win tomorrow I don't think Chelsea will lose that many games and I can't see the chasing clubs winning often enough, and will have silly draws or defeats along the way. Just how I see it
		
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You are probably right but you cant dispute the maths - it happened only a few seasons ago.

And for all Liverpools "proven goalscorers" as you put it they dropped 5 points in the last 3 games and lost the league.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			You are probably right but you cant dispute the maths - it happened only a few seasons ago.

And for all Liverpools "proven goalscorers" as you put it they dropped 5 points in the last 3 games and lost the league.
		
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That's because their defence was shocking,as it is now.


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## sawtooth (Feb 3, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



View attachment 21872


Look I hate to be the one to brake it to you but 
ARSENAL WILL NOT WIN THE LEAGUE THIS SEASON! 

The only team capable of putting a run like that together is maybe City,but with their defence I can't see it. 
Spurs haven't got the bottle. 
Liverpool haven't got the players or the bottle. 
Arsenal are just Arsenal. 

So that makes Chelsea champions &#63004;&#63004;&#63004;
		
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Yeah its not an Arsenal specific post, the point is there are 4 challengers and it will only take 1 of them to put a decent run together.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah its not an Arsenal specific post, the point is there are 4 challengers and it will only take 1 of them to put a decent run together.
		
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But I've just pointed out why none of them will &#128580;


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## sawtooth (Feb 3, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			But I've just pointed out why none of them will &#63044;
		
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Yeah but that doesn't mean you are right


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah but that doesn't mean you are right 

Click to expand...

We'll see


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## Slime (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Interesting season 2013/14

After 24 games (the same point in the season as after this weekends games), Liverpool were *6 points behind* City. They made that up and some. By the 35 game mark Liverpool were *6 points ahead* of City (although City had a game in hand - effectively 9 point swing). OK Liverpool still blew it in the last 3 games after making up all that ground but that's besides the point.

Point is,  Liverpool made 9 points on City from game week 24 to game week 35. 

If Arsenal beat Chelsea tomorrow and the chasing pack also win their games. There will 2 sides within 6 points, and 2 points within 7 points of Chelsea.

*1 *team in 2013/14 made up *9* points on City in less time and we could have *4* teams with only* 6/7 *points to catch after this weekend's games.

I do think people are writing this season off a bit too prematurely.

If Chelsea and Arsenal draw, 3 teams could still be 7/8 points behind (Arsenal still 9 points). Still do-able (Liverpool made up 9 points with fewer games in 2013/14 as per above).

If Chelsea win tomorrow and others around them lose. 12 points and I concede it will probably all be over, it would need a Newcastle style collapse.
		
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.......... and if the top five teams all fail to win another game whilst United win all of theirs, United would be champions yet again.
Mathematically possible ....................... but it just won't happen.


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## sawtooth (Feb 4, 2017)

Slime said:



			.......... and if the top five teams all fail to win another game whilst United win all of theirs, United would be champions yet again.
Mathematically possible ....................... but it just won't happen.
		
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I agree, Utd 14 points behind is a stretch but top 4 is still very much on.


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## anotherdouble (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I agree, Utd 14 points behind is a stretch but top 4 is still very much on.
		
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Be careful what you say as it would be very ironic if it happened at your expense


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

&#128079;&#128079; Super cross & powerhouse header from Costa to work the keeper and then the strength of Alonso to put it in &#128079;&#128079;


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			&#128079;&#128079; Super cross & powerhouse header from Costa to work the keeper and then the strength of Alonso to put it in &#128079;&#128079;
		
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what took you so long, 14 whole mins, expect it sooner 

pretty sure weve not won a single header yet lol


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## sawtooth (Feb 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			&#62543;&#62543; Super cross & powerhouse header from Costa to work the keeper and then the strength of Alonso to put it in &#62543;&#62543;
		
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Yeah great strength with the elbow.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah great strength with the elbow.
		
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Really?? &#128580;


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah great strength with the elbow.
		
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You really are pathetic at times.


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

fundy said:



			what took you so long, 14 whole mins, expect it sooner 

pretty sure weve not won a single header yet lol
		
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I was running up & down the garden &#128540;&#128514;


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## sawtooth (Feb 4, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Really?? &#63044;
		
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Yeah it looked like Alonso whacked Bellerin in the face with his elbow but it wasn't intentional.


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## sawtooth (Feb 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			You really are pathetic at times.
		
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I need to watch it again I thought that's what I saw


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

Kante really is top draw


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I need to watch it again I thought that's what I saw
		
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His elbow did connect with Bellerins face before he headed the ball 

But no idea if it's a foul ? It only happened because Alonso jumped higher


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I need to watch it again I thought that's what I saw
		
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His arm is out level as he's focussed totally on the ball leaping forwards, there's not an elbow, it's his whole arm across the neck as Alonso jumped higher, he then fell hard, as all the pundits have said, not even a foul, just unfortunate due to the strength of Alonso.


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## sawtooth (Feb 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			His arm is out level as he's focussed totally on the ball leaping forwards, there's not an elbow, it's his whole arm across the neck as Alonso jumped higher, he then fell hard, as all the pundits have said, not even a foul, just unfortunate due to the strength of Alonso.
		
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BBC reporting it as Bellerin taken off injured due to Alonsos elbow. Maybe they're pathetic as well?


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			BBC reporting it as Bellerin taken off injured due to Alonsos elbow. Maybe they're pathetic as well?
		
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Yep &#128077;&#127995;


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## anotherdouble (Feb 4, 2017)

2nd goal is needed. Then I think these will be like ripe tomatoes, just ready for picking


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			BBC reporting it as Bellerin taken off injured due to Alonsos elbow. Maybe they're pathetic as well?
		
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Yes they must be, when people go on about an elbow you automatically think of a bent arm and pushing it into the player intentionally, that didn't happen!

Your just a bitter north London knob who wants only to find any fault you can and highlight it because your team, club and manager is rubbish and every other gurner knows and excepts it other than knobs like you!


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			2nd goal is needed. Then I think these will be like ripe tomatoes, just ready for picking
		
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And squashing them like the soft kites they are &#128540;&#128514;


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

Henry just said fair challenge and a great goal, is that good enough for you now from your own idol?


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## sawtooth (Feb 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			Yes they must be, when people go on about an elbow you automatically think of a bent arm and pushing it into the player intentionally, that didn't happen!

Your just a bitter north London knob who wants only to find any fault you can and highlight it because your team, club and manager is rubbish and every other gurner knows and excepts it other than knobs like you!
		
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Why do you always resort to personal insults?

Anyway, that's your interpretation of an elbow. Nobody said he swung a elbow or that it was intentional - calm down.

Bellerin was put out of commission due to accidental contact with Alonso's elbow - just leave it at that and less of the insults please.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

Boooom what a goal &#128556;


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## anotherdouble (Feb 4, 2017)

Wow wow wow


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## Old Skier (Feb 4, 2017)

Now that's just to easy


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

Take a bow son  &#128079;&#128079;&#128079;&#128079;&#128079; could have gone down but stAyed on his feet and BOOOOOOM  &#128540;&#128514;&#128514;


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2017)

Coquelin just ROFL, a DM not strong enough against Eden Hazard. Must be some dossier


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

Conte in the crowd, hugging everyone he can, what a manager &#128077;&#128526;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## anotherdouble (Feb 4, 2017)

Now let's go get them boys. Another year and no title. How long are these gooners going to let Wenger be their dictator


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Now let's go get them boys. Another year and no title. How long are these gooners going to let Wenger be their dictator
		
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Another decade hopefully &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## sawtooth (Feb 4, 2017)

fundy said:



			Coquelin just ROFL, a DM not strong enough against Eden Hazard. Must be some dossier
		
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Coquelin thought that he was fouled there will have to see that again. Its amazing how Hazard stays on his feet when he can score, when he loses the ball he rolls on the ground 10 times clutching his chest.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Coquelin thought that he was fouled there will have to see that again. Its amazing how Hazard stays on his feet when he can score, when he loses the ball he rolls on the ground 10 times clutching his chest.
		
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You really are making yourself look pathetic now. 
Suck it up & just admit that Arsenal simply aren't good &#128077;&#127995;


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## anotherdouble (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Coquelin thought that he was fouled there will have to see that again. Its amazing how Hazard stays on his feet when he can score, when he loses the ball he rolls on the ground 10 times clutching his chest.
		
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Ha ha ha. Straight out of the Arsenal excuse manual. Play to the whistle. Standard operating procedure. All stems from the Arsenal way of stopping play and raising your arm hoping if enough of you do it at the same time the ref will fall for it.


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## Old Skier (Feb 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			Take a bow son  &#62543;&#62543;&#62543;&#62543;&#62543; could have gone down but stAyed on his feet and BOOOOOOM  &#63004;&#62978;&#62978;
		
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I thought you'd be running round the garden again :lol:


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

And Coquelin probably just felt embarrassed because of how Hazard mugged him off &#128514;


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2017)

Sweet sweet finishing - poor poor defending from Arsenal.

Arsenal look so weak in the middle of the park.


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## anotherdouble (Feb 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sweet sweet finishing - poor poor defending from Arsenal.

Arsenal look so weak in the middle of the park.
		
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They need to sign their local unigate rep in the summer window. He might bring some bottle to the team


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

Giroud & Rylan separated at birth?


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Coquelin thought that he was fouled there will have to see that again. Its amazing how Hazard stays on his feet when he can score, when he loses the ball he rolls on the ground 10 times clutching his chest.
		
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If that was against Liverpool I'd think even LP or any of their hard fast supporters would say that was a great goal, however you just show yourself up with your continual bitterness, your willingness for other teams in the top 6 to beat us over the last few weeks will now bite you in the Arsenal because with a Liverpool & City win you drop to 5th and even Manure will be breathing down your neck. Arsenal to finish out of the top 4, I'll be toasting myself to that later &#127866;&#128514;


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

Old Skier said:



			I thought you'd be running round the garden again :lol:
		
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Grass was too wet, nearly did a Hazard &#128514;&#128514;


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

Now that's an elbow &#128545;


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## anotherdouble (Feb 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			Now that's an elbow &#128545;
		
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But I did not see it


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## sawtooth (Feb 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			If that was against Liverpool I'd think even LP or any of their hard fast supporters would say that was a great goal, however you just show yourself up with your continual bitterness, your willingness for other teams in the top 6 to beat us over the last few weeks will now bite you in the Arsenal because with a Liverpool & City win you drop to 5th and even Manure will be breathing down your neck. Arsenal to finish out of the top 4, I'll be toasting myself to that later &#62330;&#62978;
		
Click to expand...

So no apology for the insults? Nice. 



Fish said:



			Your just a bitter north London *knob* who wants only to find any fault you can and highlight it because your team, club and manager is rubbish and every other gurner knows and excepts it other than *knobs* like you!
		
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## One Planer (Feb 4, 2017)

Is Ã–zil injured?


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			So no apology for the insults? Nice.
		
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I'm sure you'll get over it


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

Not bad when you can take Hazard & Pedro off & replace them with Fabregas & Willian &#128556;


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## sawtooth (Feb 4, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Is Ã–zil injured?
		
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Can I ask, are you moderating today or just watching the football?

You've missed a stone waller.


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## anotherdouble (Feb 4, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not bad when you can take Hazard & Pedro off & replace them with Fabregas & Willian &#128556;
		
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And BOOM


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514; just to rub salt in the wound Cesc knocks one in.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Can I ask, are you moderating today or just watching the football?

You've missed a stone waller.
		
Click to expand...

Anyone seen Sawtooths teddy???


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Can I ask, are you moderating today or just watching the football?

You've missed a stone waller.
		
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&#128514;&#128514;&#128514; please miss, what a baby &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

Hazard will get MOTM but Kante & Matic have been awesome today.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Is Ã–zil injured?
		
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Think him & Sanchez were rested for a more winnable game ðŸ˜‚


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## sawtooth (Feb 4, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Anyone seen Sawtooths teddy???
		
Click to expand...

I know emotions can run high on here but there's no need for swearing and name calling but if there's different rules for some people then so be it.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I know emotions can run high on here but there's no need for swearing and name calling but if there's different rules for some people then so be it.
		
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Ffs stop being so precious,you brought it on with the tripe that you were posting. 
Man up and take it on the chin.


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

I think the Wenger out boo boys will be out in force later and making more banners for the next match &#128540;&#128514;


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## sawtooth (Feb 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			&#62978;&#62978;&#62978; please miss, what a baby &#62978;&#62978;&#62978;
		
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That's better, there are so many different words you can use without risk of infraction.


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## Old Skier (Feb 4, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Hazard will get MOTM.
		
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 I think he was shot and been rushed to hospital so can't pick it up.

Shame he goes from the sublime to the redicules at times.


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## Dan2501 (Feb 4, 2017)

That was absolutely dire from Arsenal. It's just the same old rubbish time and time again. Weak and lazy in defence (particularly on the wings), no solid defensive minded midfielder (how many times has that been said?) and lacking in invention going forward with key players going missing in big matches. Can't wait to here the pro-Wenger defence after this, an utterly abject performance again. 

Lost to Watford, scabbed a win over Burnley with a very dubious penalty, just about got a point at Bournemouth and now lost to Chelsea. Things not looking good for Arsenal right now.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

Old Skier said:



			I think he was shot and been rushed to hospital so can't pick it up.

Shame he goes from the sublime to the redicules at times.
		
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Hilarious, &#128563;


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

Burnley nearly 3/1 at Watford. 
Surely they've got to get an away win at some point & Watford aren't exactly world beaters.


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## Old Skier (Feb 4, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Hilarious, &#63027;
		
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And true.


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## sawtooth (Feb 4, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Ffs stop being so precious,you brought it on with the tripe that you were posting. 
Man up and take it on the chin.
		
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So I invited personal insults by posting my opinion? Sorry that's not how it works here, or use to work anyway.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			So I invited personal insults by posting my opinion? Sorry that's not how it works here, or use to work anyway.
		
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Ok mate I'm sure Fish is really really sorry about calling you a nasty name. 
Any chance of letting it go now?


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## sawtooth (Feb 4, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			That was absolutely dire from Arsenal. It's just the same old rubbish time and time again. Weak and lazy in defence (particularly on the wings), no solid defensive minded midfielder (how many times has that been said?) and lacking in invention going forward with key players going missing in big matches. Can't wait to here the pro-Wenger defence after this, an utterly abject performance again. 

Lost to Watford, scabbed a win over Burnley with a very dubious penalty, just about got a point at Bournemouth and now lost to Chelsea. Things not looking good for Arsenal right now.
		
Click to expand...

I agree that the championship is now beyond Arsenal but to put things into context, we beat Chelsea at home 3 nil and we lost against a very good team away 3-1. We are still in the mix for top 4 and have the FA cup and UCL to look forward to.

Only one team can win the PL and that looks to be Chelsea now although if the other challengers win today (particularly Spurs) then they might still have a squeak of a chance. Spurs especially because their run in is very favourable.


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## sawtooth (Feb 4, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Ok mate I'm sure Fish is really really sorry about calling you a nasty name. 
Any chance of letting it go now?
		
Click to expand...

Forgotten about already.:thup: 

Like they say on telly when a ref misses an offside or handball. You moan about the injustice of it all but at the end of the day the referees decision is final and they have a tough job to do. You just have to let it go and hope that you are just as lucky next time. 

They haven't got eyes at the back of their heads and are only human after all.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			So I invited personal insults by posting my opinion? Sorry that's not how it works here, or use to work anyway.
		
Click to expand...

Sean some of the things you say you are spot on and some are just said with your Arsene Wenger blinkers on but I admire your passion for all things Arsenal.

Hazard in the first half got caught on the hip and rolled around 3 times on that hurt hip and imo that's the worst side of feigning injury even though he was actually hurt lol.

And as you pointed out he stayed on his feet when he wanted too.

Some people need to take a serious look at themselves and go back over their posts because the double standards are astounding.

Every team has cheats and I was so surprised that it was not picked up in the Utd vs Hull game the other day because we Utd were looking for a penalty and I was embarrassed watching it.


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## Dan2501 (Feb 4, 2017)

You beat Chelsea 3-0 before they were settled into their current system. Now, with confidence in the system and players comfortable in new found positions they made Arsenal look very average. Arsenal are never going to win another league title with this squad or with Wenger in charge. He seems incapable of noticing where Arsenal are lacking. They've missed a midfield partnership the like of Vieira-Petit or even Kante-Matic for YEARS. Trying to beat big teams with Coquelin and Oxlade as your 2 most defensive midfielders is just setting yourself up for failure. 

You're still in "the mix" for the Top 4, but if Liverpool and City win this weekend you're down to 5th, and if United win you're only 2 points ahead of them with United going one way, Arsenal going the other. Not looking good ATM.


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## sawtooth (Feb 4, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			You beat Chelsea 3-0 before they were settled into their current system. Now, with confidence in the system and players comfortable in new found positions they made Arsenal look very average. Arsenal are never going to win another league title with this squad or with Wenger in charge. He seems incapable of noticing where Arsenal are lacking. They've missed a midfield partnership the like of Vieira-Petit or even Kante-Matic for YEARS. Trying to beat big teams with Coquelin and Oxlade as your 2 most defensive midfielders is just setting yourself up for failure. 

You're still in "the mix" for the Top 4, but if Liverpool and City win this weekend you're down to 5th, and if United win you're only 2 points ahead of them with United going one way, Arsenal going the other. Not looking good ATM.
		
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Yes I agree the last 2 games have been very disappointing but we can't sit around feeling sorry for ourselves. Arsenal need to sort it out and get back to winning ways which I fully expect them to do.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2017)

The game today showed all the reasons why Arsenal won't win the Prem with the current manager and his signings and style 

Prob the worst midfield of any of the top 4 challengers , talented players that go missing during big games , players that have potential for years now but never be able to show consistent performances. 

Ozil was anonymous , Sanchez might as well not played - Iwobi , Coqulein just not good enough , Walcott just can't play at a consistent high level , no real threat from any one today.

Arsenal will more than likely get knocked out of the CL in a couple of weeks , then put on a little spurt with a run of wins when there is nothing left to play for and expect top 4 but this year that race is far too tight now. Arsenal in the summer could find themselves without Ozil and Sanchez and without CL football next year. And a lot of that is down to the manager


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And a lot of that is down to the manager
		
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I think all of it is down to the manager, he's not handicapped in any way in going for top players and building, he's got money available but he chooses not to spend big as he has his own philosophy and he won't change it and that holds Arsenal back imo. It's also his job to ensure the players are motivated and fit and are up for the match, it's also his responsibility to change a formation or have a plan B when players or something isn't clearly working, I saw nothing of that today from Arsenal so it all lays at the feet of Wenger who should be offered an Extention to his contract &#128540;

#HailWenger &#128079;&#128077;&#128540;


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Burnley nearly 3/1 at Watford. 
Surely they've got to get an away win at some point & Watford aren't exactly world beaters.
		
Click to expand...

&#128547;...


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## anotherdouble (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I agree that the championship is now beyond Arsenal but to put things into context, we beat Chelsea at home 3 nil and we lost against a very good team away 3-1. We are still in the mix for top 4 and have the FA cup and UCL to look forward to.

Only one team can win the PL and that looks to be Chelsea now although if the other challengers win today (particularly Spurs) then they might still have a squeak of a chance. Spurs especially because their run in is very favourable.
		
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Let's put things into true context. You beat us 3-0. We are now 12 points clear of you. You can't look at that and think everything is rosy at the all paid for emirates stadium.


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## Dan2501 (Feb 4, 2017)

Come on Everton. 3-0 up against Bournemouth already, Lukaku with 2 goals and an assist.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 4, 2017)

3 in 30 minutes and could've been more :whoo:


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## Hobbit (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I agree that the championship is now beyond Arsenal but ......
		
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I disagree Sean. There's a good chance you could get into the bottom 3 if you tried.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 4, 2017)

I have set my phone for notifications for when Liverpool have a shot on target in 2017.

Good to have Mane back he looks a right livewire


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			But Hull are no mugs and have been very unlucky with some results, I think the Hull Vs Liverpool match is the toughest and most decisive this weekend and it could change so many positions from 3rd to 6th, that's if united nick a late winner and irrelevant of what happens at the Bridge, and if Hull hold out tonight there confidence will be high for Liverpools visit.
		
Click to expand...

Hmm, seems I called this pretty spot on so far....&#128540;

Although I'm torn as to wanting Arsenal or Liverpool to drop out of the CL spots, hey, I know, come on you Manchester's &#128514;


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## Tiger man (Feb 4, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			I have set my phone for notifications for when Liverpool have a shot on target in 2017.

Good to have Mane back he looks a right livewire
		
Click to expand...

They won the league in November remember:rofl:


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 4, 2017)

What the heck is going on at the Palace match. Sunderland scoring 4!!!!!!


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What the heck is going on at the Palace match. Sunderland scoring 4!!!!!!
		
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Crazy,just shows how unpredictable the Prem is.


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## Jensen (Feb 4, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			They need to sign their local unigate rep in the summer window. He might bring some bottle to the team
		
Click to expand...

Yes,Wenger should've signed Humphrey in the transfer window.

(For those old enough to remember)


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What the heck is going on at the Palace match. Sunderland scoring 4!!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

They'll be no Super6 winners this week with these results &#128540;


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2017)

If we can't break down teams sitting deep and keep giving away silly goals we are going to struggle to stay in the top four. Got to find a way to get 3 points from all the possession. And missing chances when you get them doesn't help.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 4, 2017)

3-2, BMouth right back in it!!!!


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If we can't break down teams sitting deep and keep giving away silly goals we are going to struggle to stay in the top four. Got to find a way to get 3 points from all the possession. And missing chances when you get them doesn't help.
		
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Sourness said it earlier, possession stats mean bugger all, you have to take the chances when there on offer otherwise more clinical teams with less possession will.


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## Dan2501 (Feb 4, 2017)

Well this 2nd half not going quite as well. Come on Everton, please don't give up a 3-0 lead.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 4, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Well this 2nd half not going quite as well. Come on Everton, please don't give up a 3-0 lead.
		
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Great goal, crackin move and a hat-trick for Rom :whoo:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 4, 2017)

5-2, :rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

:rofl::whoo::rofl::whoo:
Good old Jurgen Flopp. 

But what I don't understand is how this as happened with Mane back in the team


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## pokerjoke (Feb 4, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			I have set my phone for notifications for when Liverpool have a shot on target in 2017.

Good to have Mane back he looks a right livewire
		
Click to expand...

Wrong again Mane now has an assist:rofl:


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## ger147 (Feb 4, 2017)

Shaping up like another cracking day for Man Utd with Arsenal and Liverpool fighting over who gets to give up their place to let them back in to the top 4.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

ger147 said:



			Shaping up like another cracking day for Man Utd with Arsenal and Liverpool fighting over who gets to give up their place to let them back in to the top 4.
		
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Trouble is UTD now need to take advantage.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 4, 2017)

Only 2 points off 6th and 6 points off 4th :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## chrisd (Feb 4, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What the heck is going on at the Palace match. Sunderland scoring 4!!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

We are the team that just keep giving!


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

Liverpool have only won once in their last 10 games and that was against PLYMOUTH!! 

And in 2017 they've;

Played - 5
Won - 0
Lost - 3
Drawn - 1
Points - 1

But they won't burn out &#128540;

What a scrap for 4th place now, but can Manure take advantage, they didn't the other night &#129300;


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## anotherdouble (Feb 4, 2017)

chrisd said:



			We are the team that just keep giving!
		
Click to expand...

You are not standing alone on the podium. Arsenal and Liverpool are on there with you


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Only 2 points off 6th and 6 points off 4th :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

 If City win they'll sit in 4th with 49 points, I make that 7&#129300; You can't give stats like that without taking games in hand into account.


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## Slime (Feb 4, 2017)

Another golden opportunity for United.
They blew it a few days ago, surely they can't blow it again .................... can they?
Leicester City are scrapping for their survival, just as Hull City are!!


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## Tiger man (Feb 4, 2017)

That was a Niasse suprise! Agent Oumar justifying his Â£13m fee :lol:


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## SaintHacker (Feb 4, 2017)

New manager time for us, the guy hasn't got a clue. We are now in a relegqtion fight and I can't see where the next points are coming from


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## chrisd (Feb 4, 2017)

SaintHacker said:



			New manager time for us, the guy hasn't got a clue. We are now in a relegqtion fight and I can't see where the next points are coming from
		
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Us?


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## sawtooth (Feb 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sweet sweet finishing - poor poor defending from Arsenal.

Arsenal look so weak in the middle of the park.
		
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haha you just have got to laugh at this.:rofl:

Criticising a team that is above you in the league, that lost away to the league leaders today. 

Just take a look closer to home, Liverpool lost away to bottom 3 side, 3 points from last 15 and out of both cups. Infact your season is over in the first week of February. Klopp is the messiah, yeah right.


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## SaintHacker (Feb 4, 2017)

chrisd said:



			Us?
		
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 We'll be worth at least a point to you Chris!


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## sandmagnet (Feb 4, 2017)

chrisd said:



			Us?
		
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pardews curse strikes again for me Chris. Only team I fancy getting out the bottom 3 is hull. But if anyone can help you it's  big fat Sam &#128077;


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## sawtooth (Feb 4, 2017)

For those with Sky+ watching the Spurs game. Rewind to the 10min mark and watch Dele Ali shot blocked by Clayton.

Now that is how a shot needs to be defended,  not by turning back on it frightened of being stung by the ball. Well done that man he took it full in the chest and saved a possible goal by showing a bit of courage.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			If City win they'll sit in 4th with 49 points, I make that 7&#129300; You can't give stats like that without taking games in hand into account.
		
Click to expand...

And we'd be 5 off 6th if Utd win, if others can keep talking sh1te about catching you's and a 9 point gap before a ball is kicked, I'm doing the same :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			haha you just have got to laugh at this.:rofl:

Criticising a team that is above you in the league, that lost away to the league leaders today. 

Just take a look closer to home, Liverpool lost away to bottom 3 side, 3 points from last 15 and out of both cups. Infact your season is over in the first week of February. Klopp is the messiah, yeah right.
		
Click to expand...

So people can only critsize teams below them then ? 

I know exactly the issues we have and what needs to change but then I'm not the one blindly going on about still being able to win the league. Why is our season over ? Our main aim this season was always to get the club back into the champions league and that is still on, no one has called Klopp the messiah but I'll take him over Wenger every day of the week.

You have made a right fool of yourself today. 

One day you might wake up and realise the issues you have with your own team and the picture is far from the rosy picture you believe it to be.


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			For those with Sky+ watching the Spurs game.
		
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It's on BT &#129300;


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So people can only critsize teams below them then ? 

I know exactly the issues we have and what needs to change but then I'm not the one blindly going on about still being able to win the league. Why is our season over ? Our main aim this season was always to get the club back into the champions league and that is still on, no one has called Klopp the messiah but I'll take him over Wenger every day of the week.

You have made a right fool of yourself today. 

One day you might wake up and realise the issues you have with your own team and the picture is far from the rosy picture you believe it to be.
		
Click to expand...

Are you as confident under Klopp as you were with Brenda? 
Because you really did think Brenda was the real deal at the time. 

Even when I told you that it was Suarez making him look good &#128540;


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## sawtooth (Feb 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So people can only critsize teams below them then ? 

I know exactly the issues we have and what needs to change but then I'm not the one blindly going on about still being able to win the league. Why is our season over ? Our main aim this season was always to get the club back into the champions league and that is still on, no one has called Klopp the messiah but I'll take him over Wenger every day of the week.

You have made a right fool of yourself today. 

One day you might wake up and realise the issues you have with your own team and the picture is far from the rosy picture you believe it to be.
		
Click to expand...


Klopp has achieved nothing in England, full of promise and optimism but the sad truth is that he has won zero and you might even be going backwards with him.

Brendan Rodgers came 2nd and the fans forced him out. Klopp finished 8th last year. Frankly I don't think he has a clue once his high press doesn't work.

3/1 to win the league in November. :rofl:


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## anotherdouble (Feb 4, 2017)

At least this Gooner is honest about everything http://youtu.be/a45HNZdn55s?a
Contains some bad language


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## Slime (Feb 4, 2017)

Wow, not a happy gooner bunny ..................... but he's spot on though!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Klopp has achieved nothing in England, full of promise and optimism but the sad truth is that he has won zero and you might even be going backwards with him.

Brendan Rodgers came 2nd and the fans forced him out. Klopp finished 8th last year. Frankly I don't think he has a clue once his high press doesn't work.

3/1 to win the league in November. :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

He had only been in the league for just over a year for goodness sake. Going backwards ? Yes Sean that's exactly what has happened since he arrived.

What do bookie odds have to do with anything ? 

Rodgers wasn't good enough and his results showed that even though he did have a better season than Wenger has in the last decade :rofl:

How's your maths going to see if you can still win the league - or will it be next year

I'm happy to admit we have issues and areas need sorting - you haven't got the bottle to admit the failings in your own club


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

You gotta laugh..


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## Imurg (Feb 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			And in 2017 they've;

Played - 5
Won - 0
Lost - 3
Drawn - 1
Points - 1
		
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So what did they do in the other game Robin.....Or is my maths letting me down&#128541;


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

Just looked at next week's fixtures, after Hull held Utd at OT and then beat L'pool today, is it truly a home banker for Arsenal at home?

Just as things aren't quite going right for you, you might think home advantage holds the key, but will it be enough for Liverpool to stop Spurs pressing.

Utd should put Watford to the sword and dependent on tomorrow, things may be a change-in.

City away to Bournemouth who let in 6 goals today, with City's firepower, if it turns up, it could be another grubbing.

Never a good trip away to Burnley, tough place to play but I think results elsewhere will support us if we only draw, I can't see us losing and obviously a win would be very nice, a very early goal could be key to this game.

That pack could be well shuffled again next, especially if the Manchester twins both win tomorrow.


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

Imurg said:



			So what did they do in the other game Robin.....Or is my maths letting me down&#128541;
		
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I thought nobody has spotted that, it was copied from Twitter (NowTV) so ask them :smirk:


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## Imurg (Feb 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			I thought nobody has spotted that, it was copied from Twitter (NowTV) so ask them :smirk:
		
Click to expand...

Busted&#128077;&#128514;


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## sawtooth (Feb 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He had only been in the league for just over a year for goodness sake. Going backwards ? Yes Sean that's exactly what has happened since he arrived.

What do bookie odds have to do with anything ? 

Rodgers wasn't good enough and his results showed that even though he did have a better season than Wenger has in the last decade :rofl:

How's your maths going to see if you can still win the league - or will it be next year

I'm happy to admit we have issues and areas need sorting - you haven't got the bottle to admit the failings in your own club
		
Click to expand...

Rodgers record not good enough?  yeah like 4 losses in 5 games is more like it I suppose? :rofl:


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## Slime (Feb 4, 2017)

JCW is a bit quiet again .


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Rodgers record not good enough?  yeah like 4 losses in 5 games is more like it I suppose? :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Umm why are you comparing someone over 5 games as opposed to 3 seasons ? 

Yes Rodgers record wasn't good enough after 3 and half years and he left - it wasn't working so the board made the choice to look to try and make a change. 

Maybe the Arsenal board could look to make a change to stop it being the same season every single season.


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## sawtooth (Feb 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			I thought nobody has spotted that
		
Click to expand...

I don't think any of the mods did , the abuse earlier I mean not the bad maths.


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## Jensen (Feb 4, 2017)

Well Tottenham got 3 points against stoic defending by Boro, particularly in first half. It's always worrying when only one goal separates things and the oppo always get a chance in games like this. Boro certainly had a chance very late with 2 mins to go.

In all honesty at times when teams sit deep and defend, Spurs seem at times to struggle to open them up. For me the 2 players in this position that can open things up are Dembele and Erikson. Erikson with his guile, but Dembele when he comits a man goes past him and opens things up.
Dembele is a great player, strong as an ox, can use both feet and shields the defence well. However I would like to see him push forward a bit more on the front foot, commit those players go past them and open up space behind. Often when he drives forward like this it usually results in goals. I just wonder why the manager doesn't tell him to do this.


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## richy (Feb 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He had only been in the league for just over a year for goodness sake. Going backwards ? Yes Sean that's exactly what has happened since he arrived.

What do bookie odds have to do with anything ? 

Rodgers wasn't good enough and his results showed that even though he did have a better season than Wenger has in the last decade :rofl:

How's your maths going to see if you can still win the league - or will it be next year

I'm happy to admit we have issues and areas need sorting - you haven't got the bottle to admit the failings in your own club
		
Click to expand...

Didn't Rogers finish second? Exactly the same as Wenger did with Arsenal last season? So how is that any better?


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## Tarkus1212 (Feb 4, 2017)

Slime said:



			JCW is a bit quiet again .
		
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Long may it continue


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## sawtooth (Feb 4, 2017)

richy said:



			Didn't Rogers finish second? Exactly the same as Wenger did with Arsenal last season? So how is that any better?
		
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Yes LP how is that better? 

It's like a chess computer, you know if it's taking a long time to get a reply you've really given it something to think about.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 4, 2017)

That's game over for this year. I can't see anyone catching Chelsea. Very poor from Arsenal and Liverpool which ever way you try and colour it


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## guest100718 (Feb 4, 2017)

jensen said:



			well tottenham got 3 points against stoic defending by boro, particularly in first half. It's always worrying when only one goal separates things and the oppo always get a chance in games like this. Boro certainly had a chance very late with 2 mins to go.

In all honesty at times when teams sit deep and defend, spurs seem at times to struggle to open them up. For me the 2 players in this position that can open things up are dembele and erikson. Erikson with his guile, but dembele when he comits a man goes past him and opens things up.
Dembele is a great player, strong as an ox, can use both feet and shields the defence well. However i would like to see him push forward a bit more on the front foot, commit those players go past them and open up space behind. Often when he drives forward like this it usually results in goals. I just wonder why the manager doesn't tell him to do this.
		
Click to expand...

come on you spurs


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## richy (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yes LP how is that better? 

It's like a chess computer, you know if it's taking a long time to get a reply you've really given it something to think about.
		
Click to expand...

I posted the question but I know he won't answer. 

Hounds people with questions himself but does the best Houdini act when someone poses one to him.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yes LP how is that better? 

It's like a chess computer, you know if it's taking a long time to get a reply you've really given it something to think about.
		
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richy said:



			I posted the question *but I know he won't answer. *

Hounds people with questions himself but does the best Houdini act when someone poses one to him.
		
Click to expand...

Oops :rofl:

There are two different types of second places 

The one were you challenge all the way up to end of the season and actually have a chance at winning the title - that's a title challenge 

Or the one where you are never in the title chance and sneak 2nd place on the last day - that's not a title challenge 

So for me the first one is a better season than the other. 
Well as Arsenal haven't had a serious title challenge for over a decade now we can guess which one Wenger had last year :thup:

Apologies for the delay in answering - was busy making dinner 

So about these failings within Arsenal that is appears other Arsenal fans can see - do you have the bottle to see them yet or still blinded by Wenger glasses ?


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Oops :rofl:

There are two different types of second places 

The one were you challenge all the way up to end of the season and actually have a chance at winning the title - that's a title challenge 

Or the one where you are never in the title chance and sneak 2nd place on the last day - that's not a title challenge 

So for me the first one is a better season than the other. 
Well as Arsenal haven't had a serious title challenge for over a decade now we can guess which one Wenger had last year :thup:

Apologies for the delay in answering - was busy making dinner 

So about these failings within Arsenal that is appears other Arsenal fans can see - do you have the bottle to see them yet or still blinded by Wenger glasses ?
		
Click to expand...

:rofl: Phil you really are forum gold. 
I'm guessing you can take lots of positives from this season under Flopp regardless of where you finish in the league & the future is looking bright :clap:


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## richy (Feb 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Oops :rofl:

There are two different types of second places 

The one were you challenge all the way up to end of the season and actually have a chance at winning the title - that's a title challenge 

Or the one where you are never in the title chance and sneak 2nd place on the last day - that's not a title challenge 

So for me the first one is a better season than the other. 
Well as Arsenal haven't had a serious title challenge for over a decade now we can guess which one Wenger had last year :thup:

Apologies for the delay in answering - was busy making dinner 

So about these failings within Arsenal that is appears other Arsenal fans can see - do you have the bottle to see them yet or still blinded by Wenger glasses ?
		
Click to expand...

The first one is a better season which, in this instance, ended with a far more embarrassing collapse. Liverpool lost the title that year.


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## Piece (Feb 4, 2017)

Is Klopp the right man for Liverpool? Yes.
Is Wenger the right man for Arsenal? No, and hasn't been for years.

Good but tricky three points today. Closer than it should have been. Burnley made us sweat in the second 45 as we didn't know whether to stick or twist and lost concentration.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Klopp has achieved nothing in England, full of promise and optimism but the sad truth is that he has won zero and you might even be going backwards with him.

Brendan Rodgers came 2nd and the fans forced him out. Klopp finished 8th last year. Frankly I don't think he has a clue once his high press doesn't work.

3/1 to win the league in November. :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

As a Liverpool fan it pains me to say that this at the moment is true.
but on the day any team can play poorly but the Reds don't seem to have a plan B.
Think it's because in other Leagues you don't need plan B.


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## Tarkus1212 (Feb 4, 2017)

Piece said:



			Is Klopp the right man for Liverpool? Yes.
Is Wenger the right man for Arsenal? No, and hasn't been for years.

Good but tricky three points today. Closer than it should have been. Burnley made us sweat in the second 45 as we didn't know whether to stick or twist and lost concentration.
		
Click to expand...

I have to disagree, I think Wenger is ideal for Arsenal, I hope he stays there another ten years at least....


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 4, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			:rofl: Phil you really are forum gold. 
I'm guessing you can take lots of positives from this season under Flopp regardless of where you finish in the league & the future is looking bright :clap:
		
Click to expand...

When all is said and done, all the records will say is *2nd*. At least the future is bright under Klopp!! :rofl:


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## Piece (Feb 4, 2017)

Tarkus1212 said:



			I have to disagree, I think Wenger is ideal for Arsenal, I hope he stays there another ten years at least....
		
Click to expand...


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 4, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			That's game over for this year. I can't see anyone catching Chelsea. Very poor from Arsenal and Liverpool which ever way you try and colour it
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool have been very poor over the last month we need to score first so teams come out against us the high press works then .
at the moment our strikers are missing everything .
the defending is schoolboy errors.
but for me it's the midfield that's not good enough
Can championship player at best .
Wineldium jury's out 
Henderson on his day very good but plays to many square / backward balls .
Its all to slow.
what annoys me most is we have throw in next to corner flag on their byline two passes later our goalie has it.
just throw it in the box.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 4, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Liverpool have been very poor over the last month we need to score first so teams come out against us the high press works then .
at the moment our strikers are missing everything .
the defending is schoolboy errors.
but for me it's the midfield that's not good enough
Can championship player at best .
Wineldium jury's out 
Henderson on his day very good but plays to many square / backward balls .
Its all to slow.
what annoys me most is we have throw in next to corner flag on their byline two passes later our goalie has it.
just throw it in the box.
		
Click to expand...

Some good, honest points but many on here questioned the defence and midfield before the season started and some, including Liverpool fans said both areas could have done with strengthening. Why do you think Klopp didn't, or didn't buy as well as he could. When you have played well this season you've moved the ball with searing pace. They seem as a viewer to be a little cagey during this slump and that pace has gone


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 4, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Some good, honest points but many on here questioned the defence and midfield before the season started and some, including Liverpool fans said both areas could have done with strengthening. Why do you think Klopp didn't, or didn't buy as well as he could. When you have played well this season you've moved the ball with searing pace. They seem as a viewer to be a little cagey during this slump and that pace has gone
		
Click to expand...

The last couple of games teams have sat back and we just can't break them down mainly because we didn't score first.

you can't use pace if there's no room .

look at the Chelsea game it was very entertaining because Chelsea came out to play. Could have won could have lost great game.

But if you have 80% possession as in some games you should not be getting beaten.

I thought Klopp would have some clout in the market with his reputation but not winning the cup final last season left us out of Europe so no big players .

what he has done this year could leave us in the same position next season.

its frustrating but we need to get behind the team but that's hard when they play so many square / backward balls.

we need another Gerrard but they are very hard to come by someone to play 40yd balls on a sixpence.

The idea that resting players helps them so what happened today.

I could go on but that's football you buy your ticket so you are entitled to have a moan.

i am going for a pint after that I am getting depressed


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## Hobbit (Feb 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Oops :rofl:

There are two different types of second places 

The one were you challenge all the way up to end of the season and actually have a chance at winning the title - that's a title challenge 

Or the one where you are never in the title chance and sneak 2nd place on the last day - that's not a title challenge 

So for me the first one is a better season than the other.
		
Click to expand...

I get where you're coming from and, yes, people always remember the slip ups in the run in. But for me, its about the season as a whole. The team that has a strong run in might have had a lousy February, and in reality might have only ever got second whatever.

Credit to Arsenal last year for finishing the season strongly, but talking about second like that detracts the achievement of which ever team wins the league. 

In my book, second is second. There's no such thing as a first class second and a second class second.


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2017)

not read the posts since lunchtime, has sawtooth accepted we're not good enough and his dreams are shattered yet?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 4, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			The last couple of games teams have sat back and we just can't break them down mainly because we didn't score first.

you can't use pace if there's no room .

look at the Chelsea game it was very entertaining because Chelsea came out to play. Could have won could have lost great game.

But if you have 80% possession as in some games you should not be getting beaten.

I thought Klopp would have some clout in the market with his reputation but not winning the cup final last season left us out of Europe so no big players .

what he has done this year could leave us in the same position next season.

its frustrating but we need to get behind the team but that's hard when they play so many square / backward balls.

we need another Gerrard but they are very hard to come by someone to play 40yd balls on a sixpence.

The idea that resting players helps them so what happened today.

I could go on but that's football you buy your ticket so you are entitled to have a moan.

i am going for a pint after that I am getting depressed
		
Click to expand...

Just the one pint???


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## anotherdouble (Feb 4, 2017)

fundy said:



			not read the posts since lunchtime, has sawtooth accepted we're not good enough and his dreams are shattered yet?
		
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Will he ever. I think not.


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## Tiger man (Feb 4, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			I get where you're coming from and, yes, people always remember the slip ups in the run in. But for me, its about the season as a whole. The team that has a strong run in might have had a lousy February, and in reality might have only ever got second whatever.

Credit to Arsenal last year for finishing the season strongly, but talking about second like that detracts the achievement of which ever team wins the league. 

In my book, second is second. There's no such thing as a first class second and a second class second.
		
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Don't be silly, Liverpool's was the best second place of all time. They morally won it as I'm sure one of them can prove with an alternative league table, this year they have already won the November championship and are leading the top 6 mini league.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 5, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Some good, honest points but many on here questioned the defence and midfield before the season started and some, including Liverpool fans said both areas could have done with strengthening. Why do you think Klopp didn't, or didn't buy as well as he could. When you have played well this season you've moved the ball with searing pace. They seem as a viewer to be a little cagey during this slump and that pace has gone
		
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Goalkeepers error which Klopp has not addressed.

40 yd straight down the middle bad defending Klopp has not addressed.

klopp plays a system but will not change it even when it's not working.

poor poor finishing from Liverpool. Not much Klopp can do about that he's not on the pitch.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 5, 2017)

Thoroughly enjoyed watching the great entertainers on MotD this morning &#128513;. Great to see Barkley enjoying his football again.

Would love to see Leicester do a number over Utd, only 2 points behind them now.


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## Hobbit (Feb 5, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Thoroughly enjoyed watching the great entertainers on MotD this morning &#62977;. Great to see Barkley enjoying his football again.

Would love to see Leicester do a number over Utd, only 2 points behind them now.
		
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Boro have enough problems without Leicester pulling away from them. As much as it hurts to say it I'd like to see Utd win today.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 5, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Thoroughly enjoyed watching the great entertainers on MotD this morning &#128513;. Great to see Barkley enjoying his football again.

Would love to see Leicester do a number over Utd, only 2 points behind them now.
		
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Missing the proper red noses on here though, not very often in the last 21years have we been able to laugh at them so much 
I'm sure they'll be back when they start winning again, that'll be April hopefully :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 5, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Boro have enough problems without Leicester pulling away from them. As much as it hurts to say it I'd like to see Utd win today.
		
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I hope you's get battered next saturday :whoo:


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## Hobbit (Feb 5, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I hope you's get battered next saturday :whoo:
		
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Stay off the magic mushrooms Paul, you're starting to hallucinate again.


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## sawtooth (Feb 5, 2017)

Tarkus1212 said:



			I have to disagree, I think Wenger is ideal for Arsenal, I hope he stays there another ten years at least....
		
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Arsenal are probably where we should be in the league with the players that we have, a new manager in my opinion would come in and do no better infact probably worse.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Arsenal are probably where we should be in the league with the players that we have, a new manager in my opinion would come in and do no better infact probably worse.
		
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That's pure speculation though, you've stated in the past Wenger should only go when he's ready, what if you go backwards or standstill while the teams around you improve or pull away?

Wenger, imo, is one of the best managers in the PL, I just think he needs a new challenge and is too comfortable at Arsenal, because of his superb record he's not put under enough pressure by some within the Club.


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## anotherdouble (Feb 5, 2017)

it is rumoured the the comfortable club have offered Wenger a 2 year extension to his contract. I do hope that is true.


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## jp5 (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Arsenal are probably where we should be in the league with the players that we have, a new manager in my opinion would come in and do no better infact probably worse.
		
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Fair chance a new manager would get more from the current crop of players (well those still here next season anyway!)


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## anotherdouble (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Arsenal are probably where we should be in the league with the players that we have, a new manager in my opinion would come in and do no better infact probably worse.
		
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So you are saying that Wenger can only get 4th at best with these players. I know as I type this you are 3rd but City should over take you today. And no other manger could get to a better position with these same players and you want the current regime to stay the same. nothing is different for 11 years and something tells me nothing will change in the future with this regime. Better the devil you know can only work for so long. Can you please explain how things will change under the current system that hasn't happened for the past 11 years.


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## Hobbit (Feb 5, 2017)

jp5 said:



			Fair chance a new manager would get more from the current crop of players (well those still here next season anyway!)
		
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It might also be seen as the club showing more ambition, which could realise better players wanting to join Arsenal. Maybe even keep some that are thinking of leaving..


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## sawtooth (Feb 5, 2017)

jp5 said:



			Fair chance a new manager would get more from the current crop of players (well those still here next season anyway!)
		
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Possibly, but at the end of the day you are only as good as the players you have. Wenger has done an excellent job of keeping Arsenal at the top end of the table with the resources at his disposal. The numpties calling into Talksport need to think about that, a new manager will in no way guarantee success. 

Pep with even the best squad in the league is doing no better than Wenger. I'm accused of being blinkered but equally some Arsenal fans need a reality check.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Possibly, but at the end of the day you are only as good as the players you have. Wenger has done an excellent job of keeping Arsenal at the top end of the table with the resources at his disposal. The numpties calling into Talksport need to think about that, a new manager will in no way guarantee success. 

Pep with even the best squad in the league is doing no better than Wenger. I'm accused of being blinkered but equally some Arsenal fans need a reality check.
		
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But you keep going on about the past, nobody in their right mind can question his record, it's the future people are on about, the question is, is he the right man to take you back to the next level ?
You can't keep bringing Pep or Klippetty or anyone else into your argument, they don't have the history Wenger has.


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## anotherdouble (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Possibly, but at the end of the day you are only as good as the players you have. Wenger has done an excellent job of keeping Arsenal at the top end of the table with the resources at his disposal. The numpties calling into Talksport need to think about that, a new manager will in no way guarantee success. 

Pep with even the best squad in the league is doing no better than Wenger. I'm accused of being blinkered but equally some Arsenal fans need a reality check.
		
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The Arsenal fans calling into talk sport want to see their club at the top of the tree and are not happy finishing 4th. They are fed up whmping out towards the backend of the season. They are fed up not competing in the latter stages of the champions league (quarters, semis and final). They are fed up of everybody at the club being comfortable and not competing.


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## sawtooth (Feb 5, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			It might also be seen as the club showing more ambition, which could realise better players wanting to join Arsenal. Maybe even keep some that are thinking of leaving..
		
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What salary would you sanction for Sanchez and Ozil or are you saying give them what they ask for no matter what?


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## sawtooth (Feb 5, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			The Arsenal fans calling into talk sport want to see their club at the top of the tree and are not happy finishing 4th. They are fed up whmping out towards the backend of the season. They are fed up not competing in the latter stages of the champions league (quarters, semis and final). They are fed up of everybody at the club being comfortable and not competing.
		
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Yes and don't you think that I am fed up with the situation? I am just not buying into the solution being a new manager when the one that we have is perfectly OK. The problem is finances.

Take yesterday as an example , Kante and Hazard could quite easily have been playing for Arsenal but both chose to go to Chelsea for more money. How can that possibly be Wengers fault. Tell me that.


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## sawtooth (Feb 5, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			But you keep going on about the past, nobody in their right mind can question his record, it's the future people are on about, the question is, is he the right man to take you back to the next level ?
You can't keep bringing Pep or Klippetty or anyone else into your argument, they don't have the history Wenger has.
		
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OK Wenger is DOING an excellent job. Not looking into the past.

I didn't mention Klopp. In fact I place Liverpool and Spurs (and others) in the same bucket as Arsenal and both of those sides will experience the same level of frustration that Arsenal have faced over the past 12 years unless something drastically changes. At the moment the richest teams win its as simple as that.


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## jp5 (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			At the moment the richest teams win its as simple as that.
		
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Leicester?


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## jp5 (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yes and don't you think that I am fed up with the situation? I am just not buying into the solution being a new manager when the one that we have is perfectly OK. The problem is finances.

Take yesterday as an example , Kante and Hazard could quite easily have been playing for Arsenal but both chose to go to Chelsea for more money. How can that possibly be Wengers fault. Tell me that.
		
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Kante's on no more than Walcott, and cost less than Xhaka. I think you need to look elsewhere for the reasons.


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## sawtooth (Feb 5, 2017)

jp5 said:



			Leicester?
		
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Not going to dignify that with a response.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			OK Wenger is DOING an excellent job. Not looking into the past.

I didn't mention Klopp. In fact I place Liverpool and Spurs (and others) in the same bucket as Arsenal and both of those sides will experience the same level of frustration that Arsenal have faced over the past 12 years unless something drastically changes. At the moment the richest teams win its as simple as that.
		
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You've mentioned Klopp in the past.

Arsenal ARE one of the richest clubs, you've been 1-3 players away from winning the PL a few times, if Wenger isn't willing to risk that extra on the best players then 2-4 is the best you will ever get.


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## Hobbit (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			OK Wenger is DOING an excellent job. Not looking into the past.

I didn't mention Klopp. In fact I place Liverpool and Spurs (and others) in the same bucket as Arsenal and both of those sides will experience the same level of frustration that Arsenal have faced over the past 12 years unless something drastically changes. At the moment the richest teams win its as simple as that.
		
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You've just shot your own argument down with a ruddy great bazooka! 

You place Liverpool and Spurs in the same bucket as Arsenal, and then acknowledge that drastic changes are required to end the frustration.

As for players wages; I can't see any European club matching the wages of China, although Barca and PSG are part way there. But players wages have always spiralled upwards. If you want the best you've got to pay the best.


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## sawtooth (Feb 5, 2017)

jp5 said:



			Kante's on no more than Walcott, and cost less than Xhaka. I think you need to look elsewhere for the reasons.
		
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Yes and if Arsenal would have agreed Â£35M for Kante, Chelsea would have offered Â£40M. When you are up against Chelsea in the market there is ALWAYS ever going to be one winner and that is not going to be Arsenal.

You conveniently didn't mention Hazard but same deal there.

And as for Arsenal we need to settle for somebody else and Wenger chose Xhaka.

The thing though that you really miss is that when Arsenal bid for a player they have to be extremely careful, whereas Chelsea can go out and buy any number of Cuadrados, Batshuayi at Â£30M a pop and not worry if they turn out to be duds.


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## sawtooth (Feb 5, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			You've just shot your own argument down with a ruddy great bazooka! 

You place Liverpool and Spurs in the same bucket as Arsenal, and then acknowledge that drastic changes are required to end the frustration.

As for players wages; I can't see any European club matching the wages of China, although Barca and PSG are part way there. But players wages have always spiralled upwards. If you want the best you've got to pay the best.
		
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Drastic changes in football and specifically the role that finance plays. Not drastic changes at Arsenal Brian.


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## anotherdouble (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yes and don't you think that I am fed up with the situation? I am just not buying into the solution being a new manager when the one that we have is perfectly OK. The problem is finances.

Take yesterday as an example , Kante and Hazard could quite easily have been playing for Arsenal but both chose to go to Chelsea for more money. How can that possibly be Wengers fault. Tell me that.
		
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Arsene admitted on Friday that he tried to sign Kante twice. Once when he was in France. Well Leicester only paid Â£6M. That was Wengers fault. He paid Â£34M for Whoever last summer and we paid Â£32M for Kante or it might have been the other way round. The money thing does not wash and Wenger has addmitted for last 2-3 years the money is not a constraint. Your manager is not perfectly ok. He is HOLDING your club back. As I have said before if you are happy that nobody else can make it happen then good luck. The longer he stays that's all good for my team because it's one less we have to compete with


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## sawtooth (Feb 5, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Arsene admitted on Friday that he tried to sign Kante twice. Once when he was in France. Well Leicester only paid Â£6M. That was Wengers fault. He paid Â£34M for Whoever last summer and we paid Â£32M for Kante or it might have been the other way round. The money thing does not wash and Wenger has addmitted for last 2-3 years the money is not a constraint. Your manager is not perfectly ok. He is HOLDING your club back. As I have said before if you are happy that nobody else can make it happen then good luck. The longer he stays that's all good for my team *because it's one less we have to compete with*

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You don't really compete with Arsenal you compete only with City and to some extent United.


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## anotherdouble (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			You don't really compete with Arsenal you compete only with City and to some extent United.
		
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That's what I said we don't compete with you. You are no threat to any team winning the league not just Chelsea. Even Leicester last year you were not a true threat. You thought I was talking about the transfer market. No no my forum friend. It's all about being top of the pile, top dog, numero uno. Premier league champions


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## sawtooth (Feb 5, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			That's what I said we don't compete with you. You are no threat to any team winning the league not just Chelsea. Even Leicester last year you were not a true threat. You thought I was talking about the transfer market. No no my forum friend. It's all about being top of the pile, top dog, numero uno. Premier league champions
		
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Yes and I don't begrudge your artificial success just don't denigrate a traditional club like Arsenal in the process please


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## jp5 (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yes and if Arsenal would have agreed Â£35M for Kante, Chelsea would have offered Â£40M. When you are up against Chelsea in the market there is ALWAYS ever going to be one winner and that is not going to be Arsenal.

You conveniently didn't mention Hazard but same deal there.

And as for Arsenal we need to settle for somebody else and Wenger chose Xhaka.

The thing though that you really miss is that when Arsenal bid for a player they have to be extremely careful, whereas Chelsea can go out and buy any number of Cuadrados, Batshuayi at Â£30M a pop and not worry if they turn out to be duds.
		
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That we are financially constrained makes it even more important that we have a manager who can get the most out of what we have on matchdays. I'm not seeing that currently.


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## Hobbit (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yes and I don't begrudge your artificial success just don't denigrate a traditional club like Arsenal in the process please
		
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Arsenal have bought a number of players, just as every other club. And I don't begrudge your artificial achievement of 4th place.

Until the Premier League change the rules and bring in transfer and wage caps there's nothing artificial in any clubs success.


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## anotherdouble (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yes and I don't begrudge your artificial success just don't denigrate a traditional club like Arsenal in the process please
		
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What's artificial about it.


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## Dan2501 (Feb 5, 2017)

Such rubbish that Arsenal are financially constrained. In 2015 they had cash reserves of almost Â£200m. They could definitely have competed with Chelsea for the likes of Kante, but Wenger's an idiot and decided that Xhaka would be a better signing for more money. Wenger has spent Â£96m this year on Xhaka, Mustafi, Perez, Asano and Holding and yet they've still not improved. Not like he's scabbing around and not spending any money, he spent almost Â£100m this season and yet the obvious gaps in the squad still haven't been properly addressed. Also, Arsenal's net spend this year is WAY higher than Chelsea's. Chelsea spent slightly more (112m) but made Â£92m selling players. Arsenal spent Â£96m but only made Â£8m back, so the suggestion they can't compete financially is a joke, Wenger's just wasting the money he's spending.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 5, 2017)

There's no difference between having a rich owner or basing your club in a more affluent area. 

Your match day prices dwarf dwarf many clubs based outside London. Northern clubs for example, charge much less and therefor have less to spend. And you certainly don't pay them a London weighting wage like other business do.


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## sawtooth (Feb 5, 2017)

jp5 said:



			That we are financially constrained makes it even more important that we have a manager who can get the most out of what we have on matchdays. I'm not seeing that currently.
		
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Currently third in PL but who then would you suggest is better?

Pep? Behind us in the league (at the time of writing) with an infinitely stronger squad.

Mourinho? Again behind in the league after investing Â£250M on top of what LVG invested. Out of CL league , did not qualify.

Klopp, again lower in the league than Wenger and out of all competitions.

These are the best coaches in the world, who exactly did you have in mind?


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## Dan2501 (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Currently third in PL but who then would you suggest is better?

Pep? Behind us in the league (at the time of writing) with an infinitely stronger squad.

Mourinho? Again behind in the league after investing Â£250M on top of what LVG invested. Out of CL league , did not qualify.

Klopp, again lower in the league than Wenger and out of all competitions.

These are the best coaches in the world, who exactly did you have in mind?
		
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City aren't below you in the league anymore


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## Hobbit (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Currently third in PL but who then would you suggest is better?

Pep? Behind us in the league (at the time of writing) with an infinitely stronger squad.

Mourinho? Again behind in the league after investing Â£250M on top of what LVG invested. Out of CL league , did not qualify.

Klopp, again lower in the league than Wenger and out of all competitions.

These are the best coaches in the world, who exactly did you have in mind?
		
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There's a guy down the pub who'd be better than Whinger if he had Â£100 million to spend.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Currently third in PL but who then would you suggest is better?

Pep? Behind us in the league (at the time of writing) with an infinitely stronger squad.

Mourinho? Again behind in the league after investing Â£250M on top of what LVG invested. Out of CL league , did not qualify.

Klopp, again lower in the league than Wenger and out of all competitions.

These are the best coaches in the world, who exactly did you have in mind?
		
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peps squad isn't one of players that sit his style,  utmim sure they will finish above you. League pos in Feb doesn't matter. 

Mourinho took over over a mess of a squad, don't think he'd work to well with y Ur squad though as players too soft. 

Klopp, of Liverpool had your attack id imagine he'd have them higher than they are. 

For most oat fans it's about winning. I think for finishing fourth Wenger is perfect, but for getting you over the line, he's too risk averse now and you're unwont win a title til he leaves.


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## sawtooth (Feb 5, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Such rubbish that Arsenal are financially constrained. In 2015 they had cash reserves of almost Â£200m. They could definitely have competed with Chelsea for the likes of Kante, but Wenger's an idiot and decided that Xhaka would be a better signing for more money. Wenger has spent Â£96m this year on Xhaka, Mustafi, Perez, Asano and Holding and yet they've still not improved. Not like he's scabbing around and not spending any money, he spent almost Â£100m this season and yet the obvious gaps in the squad still haven't been properly addressed. Also, Arsenal's net spend this year is WAY higher than Chelsea's. Chelsea spent slightly more (112m) but made Â£92m selling players. Arsenal spent Â£96m but only made Â£8m back, so the suggestion they can't compete financially is a joke, Wenger's just wasting the money he's spending.
		
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Arsenal are rich no denying that, others are super rich.

So you point to a spending level in one season ?! What about going about and seeing what has been spent in the past 12 years? 

The difference would be staggering that's why.

Ozil, Sanchez and others will probably go for more than we bought them for. Wenger does not have a reputation for wasting money.


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## sawtooth (Feb 5, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			peps squad isn't one of players that sit his style,  utmim sure they will finish above you. League pos in Feb doesn't matter. 

Mourinho took over over a mess of a squad, don't think he'd work to well with y Ur squad though as players too soft. 

Klopp, of Liverpool had your attack id imagine he'd have them higher than they are. 

For most oat fans it's about winning. I think for finishing fourth Wenger is perfect, but for getting you over the line, he's too risk averse now and you're unwont win a title til he leaves.
		
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Just telling you the reality of the situation. 

We want to win but we can't afford it. Mourinho has poured Â£250M into his team and he won't win the league this year.

Shall we risk pumping Â£250M of the clubs money to do it?


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## Dan2501 (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Arsenal are rich no denying that, others are super rich.

So you point to a spending level in one season ?! What about going about and seeing what has been spent in the past 12 years? 

The difference would be staggering that's why.

Ozil, Sanchez and others will probably go for more than we bought them for. Wenger does not have a reputation for wasting money.
		
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I've not just picked one season at random, I've picked the most important season, this season. Arsenal have more than enough money to compete with Chelsea for anyone in the world. They could have had Kante, but Wenger didn't want him enough to compete for him, so instead you've ended up with a bum like Xhaka, and it's been the same old story for years.

Wenger's made some awful signings, especially in recent years. Xhaka is hugely over-priced, Â£17m for Perez is laughable, Â£11m for Elneny is another waste of money, and then he spent Â£58m on Chambers, Welbeck, Debuchy and Gabriel 4 overpriced players that have not improved the team. He's living off former glories with his transfers, his dealings in the transfer market other than Sanchez and Cech in the last 3 years have been shocking.


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## anotherdouble (Feb 5, 2017)

And Cech was a present from Roman


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## Papas1982 (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Just telling you the reality of the situation. 

We want to win but we can't afford it. Mourinho has poured Â£250M into his team and he won't win the league this year.

Shall we risk pumping Â£250M of the clubs money to do it?
		
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Youre not being realistic though. 

Most poeple havent said you need to spend Â£250m. 

Wenger buys best buys have late have been ozil and Sanchez. Where he paid proper money for players. 

His others have added little to your team. This myth he's great at transfers too. He's bought many a dud. 

If if you wish to belive money or lack of is your only flaw then so be it. But many neutrals and Arsenal fans feel you're wrong.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 5, 2017)

I can see Swansea staying up quite comfortably. 
There's at least 3 worse teams in the Prem than them.


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## Dan2501 (Feb 5, 2017)

Gabriel Jesus. What a signing he could turn out to be.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 5, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Gabriel Jesus. What a signing he could turn out to be.
		
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Unfortunately I agree&#128547;


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Just telling you the reality of the situation. 

We want to win but we can't afford it. Mourinho has poured Â£250M into his team and he won't win the league this year.

Shall we risk pumping Â£250M of the clubs money to do it?
		
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Wanting to win and actually doing something about it are two different things - quite clear you don't believe there is anything wrong with the way Wenger is going about things then you don't want to win, continuely blaming a lack of money is just looking for excuses to deflect away from the poor management from Wenger. Arsenal have spent millions - millions on the same mentally weak attacking mids whilst most people will tell you exactly where Arsenal need to spend money on. 

A good number of managers with the same amount of money being spent and with some of the Arsenal players would have won the league for Arsenal. 

The league last year will always blow any argument about money out of the water. 

Tony Cascarino on Talksport this morning had it spot on - if there are Arsenal's who don't believe that something needs to change including probably the manager then they are in the same bubble at the manager.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 5, 2017)

The battle for the 3 CL places up for grabs is hotting up. 
UTD really do have to win today.


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## Fish (Feb 5, 2017)

What an awful game, longest 30 minutes ever &#128542;


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## Dan2501 (Feb 5, 2017)

Finally something interesting in this match. Mkhitaryan is class.


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## Dan2501 (Feb 5, 2017)

Haha make that 2-0. Ibra. Leicester really need to change something. A lot is made of losing Kante but don't think he'd make an ounce of different in this team ATM, they're just playing awfully.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 5, 2017)

What are the UTD fans on here's thoughts on Pogba? 
I actually like him,but at the minute it looks like they've paid massively over the odds for him.


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## Slime (Feb 5, 2017)

Forty minutes of total dross, during which time Mata could easily have been sent off, and then BOOM ..................... it's 2-0.
Good tactical change by JM, it must be said.



Pin-seeker said:



*What are the UTD fans on here's thoughts on Pogba? *
I actually like him,but at the minute it looks like they've paid massively over the odds for him.
		
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I think he's potentially awesome.
It's only his first full season back and it's a far cry from the Italian league.
He has to realise that just because he's the world's most expensive player it doesn't automatically mean that he's the world's best player.
I think he'll be a very sound investment.


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## sawtooth (Feb 5, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A good number of managers with the same amount of money being spent and with some of the Arsenal players would have won the league for Arsenal.
		
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Is that right? What about the money Liverpool has spent and the good many managers that you've had?

Is that why Liverpool haven't won the league in over 25 years. And you are still no nearer winning it today with supposedly a better manager.

You will see what I mean in 10 years when you still haven't won it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Is that right? What about the money Liverpool has spent and the good many managers that you've had?

Is that why Liverpool haven't won the league in over 25 years. And you are still no nearer winning it today with supposedly a better manager.

You will see what I mean in 10 years when you still haven't won it.
		
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If Rafa was given the same amount of money that Rodgers and Kenny was given then I believe he would have won the title - Rodgers wasn't good enough , Hodgson wasn't good and Kenny had been out of the game for a long time. 

Liverpool have been poorly managed and spent poorly for 20+ years now and that's why we haven't won the league. 

I can admit that Sean but it's quite clear you can't admit the failings within Arsenal 

And yes If Klopp , Pochettino , Koeman , Pep , Conte were at Arsenal over the last 3/5 years they would have won the title imo


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## anotherdouble (Feb 5, 2017)

Come on Utd. I have baked them to score more than 3 and they have been dicking around for last 20 mins


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## SaintHacker (Feb 5, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Come on Utd. I have baked them to score more than 3 and they have been dicking around for last 20 mins
		
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Try roasting them next time instead...


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## anotherdouble (Feb 5, 2017)

SaintHacker said:



			Try roasting them next time instead...

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That might get me better results I supposed. I should of backed them really


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## Slime (Feb 5, 2017)

United were average ..................... and still won at a canter.
If Leicester don't get relegated this season, they probably will next season.
They were awful and clueless.
Three points off fourth spot, that'll do!


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## sawtooth (Feb 5, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If Rafa was given the same amount of money that Rodgers and Kenny was given then I believe he would have won the title - Rodgers wasn't good enough , Hodgson wasn't good and Kenny had been out of the game for a long time. 

Liverpool have been poorly managed and spent poorly for 20+ years now and that's why we haven't won the league. 

I can admit that Sean but it's quite clear you can't admit the failings within Arsenal 

And yes If Klopp , Pochettino , Koeman , Pep , Conte were at Arsenal over the last 3/5 years they would have won the title imo
		
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Not IMO we will just have to see what magical wonders Klopp, Pochettino, and Koeman can work with their respective clubs in 3-5 years. 

Pep, Conte and Mourinho - I would expect them to win as has been the case with Chelsea, City , Utd in the past 10-12 years. That's kind of the point I am making.

You only have to look back and see who has actually won the premier league outside the super rich 3. Not many Spurs, Liverpool, Everton wins from what I have seen in the past 25 years. Infact none.

Say what you think might have happened but at the end of the day we have to work with the cold hard facts.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Not IMO we will just have to see what magical wonders Klopp, Pochettino, and Koeman can work with their respective clubs in 3-5 years. 

Pep, Conte and Mourinho - I would expect them to win as has been the case with Chelsea, City , Utd in the past 10-12 years. That's kind of the point I am making.

You only have to look back and see who has actually won the premier league outside the super rich 3. Not many Spurs, Liverpool, Everton wins from what I have seen in the past 25 years. Infact none.

Say what you think might have happened but at the end of the day we have to work with the cold hard facts.
		
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Yep and the cold hard facts are that Arsenal haven't won the league for over a decade , they have spent millions of pounds in that same period but still have glaring gaps in the team , Leicester managed to win the league without spending millions upon millions 

Stop blaming the money. 

All the over Arsenal fans on here can see there is a problem - why can't you ? Why do you continue to look to deflect the issue onto money ? Are you that Wenger blind to not being able to see it ?


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## Papas1982 (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Not IMO we will just have to see what magical wonders Klopp, Pochettino, and Koeman can work with their respective clubs in 3-5 years. 

Pep, Conte and Mourinho - I would expect them to win as has been the case with Chelsea, City , Utd in the past 10-12 years. That's kind of the point I am making.

You only have to look back and see who has actually won the premier league outside the super rich 3. Not many Spurs, Liverpool, Everton wins from what I have seen in the past 25 years. Infact none.

Say what you think might have happened but at the end of the day we have to work with the cold hard facts.
		
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Klopp poch and koeman are all managing clubs with far inferior resources than Arsenal. If any of them win the league whilst Wenger is still in charge they would be exceeding expectation.


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## Fish (Feb 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			Just looked at next week's fixtures, after Hull held Utd at OT and then beat L'pool today, is it truly a home banker for Arsenal at home?

Just as things aren't quite going right for you, you might think home advantage holds the key, but will it be enough for Liverpool to stop Spurs pressing.

Utd should put Watford to the sword and dependent on tomorrow, things may be a change-in.

City away to Bournemouth who let in 6 goals today, with City's firepower, if it turns up, it could be another grubbing.

Never a good trip away to Burnley, tough place to play but I think results elsewhere will support us if we only draw, I can't see us losing and obviously a win would be very nice, a very early goal could be key to this game.

That pack could be well shuffled again next, especially if the Manchester twins both win tomorrow.
		
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Well the Manchester teams won and there's nothing between 6th & 4th now and it's all to play for to get into the CL next season, some would think there's a couple of home bankers next week, but are they when teams they are playing are looking to secure either their top 4 place, challenge for the title or fight for survival.  

It's just got even more interesting but who's got the bottle to see it through &#129300;


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## pokerjoke (Feb 5, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep and the cold hard facts are that Arsenal haven't won the league for over a decade , they have spent millions of pounds in that same period but still have glaring gaps in the team , Leicester managed to win the league without spending millions upon millions 

Stop blaming the money. 

All the over Arsenal fans on here can see there is a problem - why can't you ? Why do you continue to look to deflect the issue onto money ? Are you that Wenger blind to not being able to see it ?
		
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Your like a stuck record Phil going over the same argument for days on end.

In another thread you mentioned how the forum was getting bad well you are one of the major culprits.


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## sawtooth (Feb 5, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep and the cold hard facts are that Arsenal haven't won the league for over a decade , they have spent millions of pounds in that same period but still have glaring gaps in the team , Leicester managed to win the league without spending millions upon millions 

Stop blaming the money. 

All the over Arsenal fans on here can see there is a problem - why can't you ? Why do you continue to look to deflect the issue onto money ? Are you that Wenger blind to not being able to see it ?
		
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Yes millions of pounds when the other clubs have spent hundreds of millions of pounds.

Precisely why Liverpool have failed for 25 years and continue to fail.

You could have kept Sterling and Suarez if you could afford to pay them enough. Just saying.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 5, 2017)

Slime said:



			United were average ..................... and still won at a canter.
If Leicester don't get relegated this season, they probably will next season.
They were awful and clueless.
Three points off fourth spot, that'll do!
		
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Feel for Leicester really do hope they come through.

Average Utd yes but I bet some thought Leicester might just do something,however Utd looking very in control of most games now which is good.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 5, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			What are the UTD fans on here's thoughts on Pogba? 
I actually like him,but at the minute it looks like they've paid massively over the odds for him.
		
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The price tag means nothing really he has settled in nicely.
I must admit I thought he would be better than he has been so far but I believe he will get a lot better,treats the game as he is on the training field sometimes but as the games get bigger I think he will rise to the occasion more.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 5, 2017)

Look Phil,Sawtooth doesn't agree with you. 
It's a difference of opinion,any chance of you just letting it go?


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## Fish (Feb 5, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Feel for Leicester really do hope they come through.

Average Utd yes but I bet some thought Leicester might just do something,however Utd looking very in control of most games now which is good.
		
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I'm not sure being in control is good enough, there's something lacking at Utd, there's no sharpness or anything dynamic happening enough, they just grind away, ok that's getting them results and they've worked their way into contention but only because some of those teams above them have had some shockingly poor results of late for the positions there in, otherwise Utd would be well off the pace and there would be a bigger breakaway of the top 5.


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## sawtooth (Feb 5, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Klopp poch and koeman are all managing clubs with far inferior resources than Arsenal. If any of them win the league whilst Wenger is still in charge they would be exceeding expectation.
		
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Not far inferior but yes there's a gap in finances I accept that. 

That gap nicely explains why Arsenal have been best of the rest for most of PL history under Wenger.

I applaud BR and tbf he should have been given more credit for almost winning the league in 2014. Against the odds he ran the super rich clubs very close indeed.

Instead he was run out of Liverpool as an abject failure.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			I'm not sure being in control is good enough, there's something lacking at Utd, there's no sharpness or anything dynamic happening enough, they just grind away, ok that's getting them results and they've worked their way into contention but only because some of those teams above them have had some shockingly poor results of late for the positions there in, otherwise Utd would be well off the pace and there would be a bigger breakaway of the top 5.
		
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You play what is in front of you sometimes you have to be patient we failed against Hull so today was about winning.

People and probably yourself also without going back over the thread were saying the top 4 were opening a gap well that has well and truly closed.

We are now a threat to all apart from Chelsea when we were being written off by some.

Its been a massive turnaround from where we looked like we would concede goals every game and we have a big squad with depth so I for one know we will be top 4.

Arsenal and Liverpool and especially Liverpool must be worried.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			I'm not sure being in control is good enough, there's something lacking at Utd, there's no sharpness or anything dynamic happening enough, they just grind away, ok that's getting them results and they've worked their way into contention but only because some of those teams above them have had some shockingly poor results of late for the positions there in, otherwise Utd would be well off the pace and there would be a bigger breakaway of the top 5.
		
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I think it shows just how good Conte has been, prior to the season starting we didn't know how Leicester would cope and looking at City, Utd and Chelsea having new managers and wondering if they'd settle in quickly I thought Spurs and Arsenal may of held an advantage and built on last season, 
Conte, Pep and Jose could use the excuse of it not being their squad etc.
I think City and Utd will be stronger and have higher expectations next season, but even if Conte doesn't (but I think he will) win the PL this season, I still expect Chelsea to go up a level next season and that's frightening.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 5, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Your like a stuck record Phil going over the same argument for days on end.

In another thread you mentioned how the forum was getting bad well you are one of the major culprits.
		
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:clap: :clap: :clap:


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## garyinderry (Feb 5, 2017)

There is very little evidence that Klopp would have sorted out Arsenal's defensive frailties. He's had 15 months and Liverpool look as shaky as ever at the back. 

Like Wenger he is failing to address the obvious weaknesses.


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## Fish (Feb 5, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			There is very little evidence that Klopp would have sorted out Arsenal's defensive frailties. He's had 15 months and Liverpool look as shaky as ever at the back. 

Like Wenger he is failing to address the obvious weaknesses.
		
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Conte addressed ours by identifying after a few games that the defence needed changing, he did that and then we didn't concede a goal for.....well so many games it was unreal!

Liverpool under Rodgers and now Klopp seem to be obsessed with only scoring goals and high intensity, it's a 'we'll score more goals than you' mentality I don't understand because your just going to carry on conceding goals and ultimately lose or draw too many games to win a title, when you stop the goals going in as Conte did, you can then with confidence go and get them at the other end, it's not rocket science, or is it for some managers?


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## Tashyboy (Feb 5, 2017)

And that is why following City is bloody frustrating, all year one up, a host of missed chances should be half a dozen up by half time and we are struggling to hold on for a win.
same happened V Boro, Everton and  Burnley off the top of my head. Am I missing something here. Exactly the same today. Battered them the first half. Never even had a sniff the second half and what does Pep do, takes off De Bruyne and puts on Zabaleta. Al bet the back four of Swansea had a whip around for Pep at the end of the game at that one. Zabaleta is there to help shore up and we conceded again:rant:
Then and only then does he bring on Aguero. Give me flippin strength. Proper bogged off. 
Oh ah and its nowt to do with me goin five mins early coz I was on me own wi young Bradley Tash and I missed the winner q.

PS, I did say Jesus looked a bit special didn't I.


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## Junior (Feb 5, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			What are the UTD fans on here's thoughts on Pogba? 
I actually like him,but at the minute it looks like they've paid massively over the odds for him.
		
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He's only really had a few outstanding games (around Christmas) but imo he is settling in ok.  He's taken on more of a team role and, whilst not always the star of the show, he is playing steady.  

Mata (who imo is our best player) and Mkhitaryan are playing really well now and are out-shining him, so his price tag will always be brought up.  They did pay way over the odds, but, these days Man U, Chelski and Citeh always have to pay over the odds for players.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			Conte addressed ours by identifying after a few games that the defence needed changing, he did that and then we didn't concede a goal for.....well so many games it was unreal!

Liverpool under Rodgers and now Klopp seem to be obsessed with only scoring goals and high intensity, it's a 'we'll score more goals than you' mentality I don't understand because your just going to carry on conceding goals and ultimately lose or draw too many games to win a title, when you stop the goals going in as Conte did, you can then with confidence go and get them at the other end, it's not rocket science, or is it for some managers?
		
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Klopp has tried by bringing in a CB and a GK during the window - think it was the right CB but needed to be a experienced GK - not sure if Hart is the answer but would prefer him at the club over the Ming with Karius as back up or even given Ward a go 

LB is an issue he tried in the summer but wouldn't pay silly prices - expect him to go again in the summer. 

In some way I'm quite happy that Klopp doesn't have a defensive attitude or mentality within his tactics but he will need to find the balance 

Come the summer there will be a few players on the way out - Ming , Moreno , Sturridge and possibly Can - they all need improving significantly 

This summer coming up is going to be another interesting one 

Don't think too much will happen at Chelsea beyond the Costa issue but can see him being replaced by Morata ( if he goes )

Man Utd looked like they are going to spend even bigger on players like Griezmann - where is he going to fit in ?

City will look at the back 

Spurs ? Depends on who goes 

Arsenal - no doubt another small attacking mid 

Could be some big movers in the summer


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## sawtooth (Feb 5, 2017)

Elneny doing very well in ACN, just scored a nice goal in the final.

I think we missed him a bit with Ramsey and Xhaka being out.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 5, 2017)

Junior said:



			He's only really had a few outstanding games (around Christmas) but imo he is settling in ok.  He's taken on more of a team role and, whilst not always the star of the show, he is playing steady.  

Mata (who imo is our best player) and Mkhitaryan are playing really well now and are out-shining him, so his price tag will always be brought up.  They did pay way over the odds, but, these days Man U, Chelski and Citeh always have to pay over the odds for players.
		
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Dont think we paid over the odds for Zabba, kompany, Aguero, DeBryune, Silva, Fernandinho, Jesus. YaYa, Hart. 

Like most clubs though, we have bought a few donkeys.


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## Junior (Feb 5, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Dont think we paid over the odds for Zabba, kompany, Aguero, DeBryune, Silva, Fernandinho, Jesus. YaYa, Hart. 

Like most clubs though, we have bought a few donkeys.
		
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Â£50+ mil for De Bruyn , Just under Â£30 mil for Jesus? Whilst better buys than Pogba , it's still a fair wedge.  

Blue & red footballing rivalries aside, these days we both get screwed on prices for players.  Wait till Pep tries to buy a centre back, the selling manager will just demand crazy money.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 5, 2017)

Just seen Leicesters run in and it's a tough un. . Relegation for the champs maybe.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 5, 2017)

Junior said:



			Â£50+ mil for De Bruyn , Just under Â£30 mil for Jesus? Whilst better buys than Pogba , it's still a fair wedge.  

Blue & red footballing rivalries aside, these days we both get screwed on prices for players.  Wait till Pep tries to buy a centre back, the selling manager will just demand crazy money.
		
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Trouble,is we have a big black kid who has been at city since he was five and his contract runs out in six month, why he has not been given a chance Lord knows.


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## jp5 (Feb 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Currently third in PL but who then would you suggest is better?

Pep? Behind us in the league (at the time of writing) with an infinitely stronger squad.

Mourinho? Again behind in the league after investing Â£250M on top of what LVG invested. Out of CL league , did not qualify.

Klopp, again lower in the league than Wenger and out of all competitions.

These are the best coaches in the world, who exactly did you have in mind?
		
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Think they could all get something extra out of the team that we're not seeing at the moment.


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## sawtooth (Feb 6, 2017)

jp5 said:



			Think they could all get something extra out of the team that we're not seeing at the moment.
		
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There's no supporting evidence to suggest that you could be right.

Klopp doing worse with his own team, Pep currently only 2 points better off with the squad that he has and Chelsea with their squad should be above Arsenal any way.

Poch is currently doing quite well with his squad in the league but they're out of the CL and they probably won't overcome Chelsea in the league either.

Each year you could predict Chelsea United  City will finish 1 2 3 in some order and every now and again Arsenal Spurs or Liverpool will temporarily break the pattern and displace 1 or 2 of them. But not all 3, one will always prevail.

This year Chelsea next year it could easily be United, City or  Chelsea again.

I enjoy watching Wengers Arsenal , they play excellent football and I know that he is doing very well with the squad that he has.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 6, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			There's no supporting evidence to suggest that you could be right.

*Klopp doing worse with his own team, *Pep currently only 2 points better off with the squad that he has and Chelsea with their squad should be above Arsenal any way.

Poch is currently doing quite well with his squad in the league but they're out of the CL and they probably won't overcome Chelsea in the league either.

Each year you could predict Chelsea United  City will finish 1 2 3 in some order and every now and again Arsenal Spurs or Liverpool will temporarily break the pattern and displace 1 or 2 of them. But not all 3, one will always prevail.

This year Chelsea next year it could easily be United, City or  Chelsea again.

I enjoy watching Wengers Arsenal , they play excellent football and I know that he is doing very well with the squad that he has.
		
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How is Klopp doing worse and don't see it being his team just yet after 1 year.


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## user2010 (Feb 6, 2017)

All I can say as an armchair Liverpool supporter is, thank Grud we`ve got over the magic 40 point mark early!


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## sawtooth (Feb 6, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How is Klopp doing worse and don't see it being his team just yet after 1 year.
		
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Well you're behind in the league albeit by only a single point , out of all the cups and were never even in the CL to begin with.

That doesn't tell me that Klopp could do any better than Wenger.

That might change in future but looking at the facts in front of us now I'm not seeing it.


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## Fish (Feb 6, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Well you're behind in the league albeit by only a single point , out of all the cups and were never even in the CL to begin with.

That doesn't tell me that Klopp could do any better than Wenger.
		
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I think if Klopp is behind Arsenal by only a single point after only 15 months that says more to me of what he could _possibly_ do if he had the decades Wenger has had already, Wenger isn't exactly putting any distance between yourselves and them, is he?

As for the CL, Liverpool were in the Europa when Klopp was appointed in October 2015 so that's a nothing stat and he finished 8th with an inherited squad, this season is his first full opportunity so he looks at face value to be improving them and trying to build something, although there are obviously still issues and areas that need addressing, but I would bet if he was given the same time and money Wenger has had over the years, Liverpool would have been far more successful so pointing out a single 1 point variable in those circumstances is quite laughable!

I'm defending Liverpool, must wash my mouth out quickly


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## anotherdouble (Feb 6, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think if Klopp is behind Arsenal by only a single point after only 15 months that says more to me of what he could _possibly_ do if he had the decades Wenger has had already, Wenger isn't exactly putting any distance between yourselves and them, is he?

As for the CL, Liverpool were in the Europa when Klopp was appointed in October 2015 so that's a nothing stat and he finished 8th with an inherited squad, this season is his first full opportunity so he looks at face value to be improving them and trying to build something, although there are obviously still issues and areas that need addressing, but I would bet if he was given the same time and money Wenger has had over the years, Liverpool would have been far more successful so pointing out a single 1 point variable in those circumstances is quite laughable!

I'm defending Liverpool, must wash my mouth out quickly  
	View attachment 21891

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Horse dead and flogging, are certain words that spring to mind Robin. It will be interesting how these Wengerites feel if they do fails to get champions league place


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 6, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think if Klopp is behind Arsenal by only a single point after only 15 months that says more to me of what he could _possibly_ do if he had the decades Wenger has had already, Wenger isn't exactly putting any distance between yourselves and them, is he?

As for the CL, Liverpool were in the Europa when Klopp was appointed in October 2015 so that's a nothing stat and he finished 8th with an inherited squad, this season is his first full opportunity so he looks at face value to be improving them and trying to build something, although there are obviously still issues and areas that need addressing, but I would bet if he was given the same time and money Wenger has had over the years, Liverpool would have been far more successful so pointing out a single 1 point variable in those circumstances is quite laughable!

I'm defending Liverpool, must wash my mouth out quickly  
	View attachment 21891

Click to expand...

the problem for Klopp and Liverpool is they are very inconsistent they can play lovely football and put five past teams, but the next game will be beaten by a bottom three club.

the opposition tactics seem to stop Liverpools pressing game and we need to be able to change our game but at the moment that's not happening.

I have been hearing it will be better next year for far to long now.


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## pbrown7582 (Feb 6, 2017)

Junior said:



			He's only really had a few outstanding games (around Christmas) but imo he is settling in ok.  He's taken on more of a team role and, whilst not always the star of the show, he is playing steady.  

Mata (who imo is our best player) and Mkhitaryan are playing really well now and are out-shining him, so his price tag will always be brought up.  They did pay way over the odds, but, these days Man U, Chelski and Citeh always have to pay over the odds for players.
		
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:thup:

and I think he will come good in the long run.


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## Junior (Feb 6, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			:thup:

and I think he will come good in the long run.
		
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I agree mate.  The wait will be a test of his ego so he'll need to be patient with JM's tactics.  JM has a few 'in the hole' players these days and they change formation a lot in games to see which works.  Mkhitaryan moved from the wing to a central position yesterday and had an immediate impact.


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## Slime (Feb 6, 2017)

Looking at the table and current form, would it be possible for Everton to finish above Liverpool this season .................... or am I just too hopeful!
Serious question though, just putting it out there.


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## Fish (Feb 6, 2017)

Slime said:



			Looking at the table and current form, would it be possible for Everton to finish above Liverpool this season .................... or am I just too hopeful!
Serious question though, just putting it out there.
		
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I have a little wager on it most seasons and have punted it on here a few times also, but wouldn't it be something


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 6, 2017)

In terms of current form it is entirely possible, we are on the up, they are in freefall. A season is a long time though and the situation could switch. I'd like to think we have a bit more about us now so we should remain steady but surely Liverpool will click again and get back to winning ways. It would be very chucklesome if it did happen


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 6, 2017)

Slime said:



			Looking at the table and current form, would it be possible for Everton to finish above Liverpool this season .................... or am I just too hopeful!
Serious question though, just putting it out there.
		
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Well we are concentrating on the League this year :rofl:

I stand by my comment that I'd be content with 10th this season, obviously at this stage you could argue that would be disappointing as it's gone better than I'd initially hoped, but he's got rid of a lot of squad players, next season I'd like a serious challenge in the top 6 pushing for CL place maybe.


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## Fish (Feb 6, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			In terms of current form it is entirely possible, we are on the up, they are in freefall. A season is a long time though and the situation could switch. I'd like to think we have a bit more about us now so we should remain steady but surely Liverpool will click again and get back to winning ways. It would be very chucklesome if it did happen 

Click to expand...

Your away at Middlesbrough and L'pool even though they are at home they've got a consistent Spurs team that can't afford to drop a point and will want to keep pressing us in case we slip a point here or there, I know which result I would be laying my money on


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 6, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I stand by my comment that I'd be content with 10th this season, obviously at this stage you could argue that would be disappointing as it's gone better than I'd initially hoped, but he's got rid of a lot of squad players, next season I'd like a serious challenge in the top 6 pushing for CL place maybe.
		
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If you look at the league then anything below 8th would be a catastrophe. Really we should retain 7th. Anything above that is a bonus for this year and can be put down as a good year. Progress has been made, we are top of div 2 of the PL. Trying to make that leap to the next level is going to be tough but that has to be the target. Keeping Rom is going to be key. That or we bankrupt the club trying to buy him so that we can buy whoever we want.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 6, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If you look at the league then anything below 8th would be a catastrophe. Really we should retain 7th. Anything above that is a bonus for this year and can be put down as a good year. Progress has been made, we are top of div 2 of the PL. Trying to make that leap to the next level is going to be tough but that has to be the target. Keeping Rom is going to be key. That or we bankrupt the club trying to buy him so that we can buy whoever we want.
		
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I'm still happy to write this season off as transition and wouldn't see anything below 8th as catastrophe only 11th or below as that.
I don't want to be top of div 2 I want to be top 4 and if that means slow progress over 2-3 yrs I'd take it.
Heart says top 6 is achievable this season, head worries about over achieving too soon, Martinez, 5th then 11th twice,


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## pokerjoke (Feb 6, 2017)

Slime said:



			Looking at the table and current form, would it be possible for Everton to finish above Liverpool this season .................... or am I just too hopeful!
Serious question though, just putting it out there.
		
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Theres every chance just like I predicted before xmas there is no way with that squad and the way Liverpool play they will be in the top 5 so 6th or 7th.

Just been watching Jaime and Gary talking about Liverpools poor form and they both said the way Klopp has or had them playing[because they are now knackered]it was unsustainable and the depth of their squad is just not big enough.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 6, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I'm still happy to write this season off as transition and wouldn't see anything below 8th as catastrophe only 11th or below as that.
I don't want to be top of div 2 I want to be top 4 and if that means slow progress over 2-3 yrs I'd take it.
Heart says top 6 is achievable this season, head worries about over achieving too soon, Martinez, 5th then 11th twice,
		
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We are 9 points ahead of 9th. If we let one of those clubs catch us then that would be disappointing. It's between us and West Brom for 7th and 8th. Koeman is building the team he wants and the people he has brought in have pretty much all worked. Progress is all you can ask for.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 6, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We are 9 points ahead of 9th. If we let one of those clubs catch us then that would be disappointing. It's between us and West Brom for 7th and 8th. Koeman is building the team he wants and the people he has brought in have pretty much all worked. Progress is all you can ask for.
		
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9 points is nothing according to some of those chasing Chelsea apparently 
Had too many false dawns in recent years to get carried away just yet.


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## sawtooth (Feb 6, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			9 points is nothing according to some of those chasing Chelsea apparently 
Had too many false dawns in recent years to get carried away just yet.
		
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Really? I don't think anyone said it was nothing, do-able yes but not nothing.

Everton could catch Liverpool , stranger things have happened. 

Much depends on what is the cause of the Liverpool collapse and whether they can change it quickly.

If teams have cottoned on to how to stop them playing and Klopp doesn't know another way then that's pretty serious.

However if the players just need a good rest or come up against teams that don't match them for effort then they will be OK.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 6, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Really? I don't think anyone said it was nothing, do-able yes but not nothing.

Everton could catch Liverpool , stranger things have happened. 

Much depends on what is the cause of the Liverpool collapse and whether they can change it quickly.

If teams have cottoned on to how to stop them playing and Klopp doesn't know another way then that's pretty serious.

However if the players just need a good rest or come up against teams that don't match them for effort then they will be OK.
		
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A few on here have tried to tell Fish how if they beat Chelsea then beat the next team the gap is down to blah blah blah.

If we can catch LPool then there's a few other teams within reach as well.

I very much doubt we'll be top 6, but be honest a few have been saying how many points are left to play for and how Chelsea could collapse, so if they can talk sh1te, so can I.


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## anotherdouble (Feb 6, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			A few on here have tried to tell Fish how if they beat Chelsea then beat the next team the gap is down to blah blah blah.

If we can catch LPool then there's a few other teams within reach as well.

I very much doubt we'll be top 6, but be honest a few have been saying how many points are left to play for and how Chelsea could collapse, so if they can talk sh1te, so can I.
		
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It's a pity you had that blip before Xmas. Without that it could have been really interesting


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 6, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Really? I don't think anyone said it was nothing, do-able yes but not nothing.

Everton could catch Liverpool , stranger things have happened. 

Much depends on what is the cause of the Liverpool collapse and whether they can change it quickly.

If teams have cottoned on to how to stop them playing and Klopp doesn't know another way then that's pretty serious.

However if the players just need a good rest or come up against teams that don't match them for effort then they will be OK.
		
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The players had a good rest while the reserves went out of both cups .
Then after a decent performance against Chealsea got beat by Hull.

I don't think Klopp knows any other way or he would have tried it by now surely.


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## Fish (Feb 7, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			The players had a good rest while the reserves went out of both cups .
Then after a decent performance against Chealsea got beat by Hull.

I don't think Klopp knows any other way or he would have tried it by now surely.
		
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So is this why it eventually also failed to work at Dortmund, he's a one trick pony &#129300;


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## sawtooth (Feb 7, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Just been watching Jamie and Gary talking about Liverpools poor form and they both said the way Klopp has or had them playing[because they are now knackered]it was unsustainable and the depth of their squad is just not big enough.
		
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That's very interesting to hear pundits talking like that but like yourself I was calling this back in Oct/November

It's only a theory but a plausible one.

Klopp may have over achieved with this group of players early season by not changing much other than attitude to working hard both in and out of possession. Stats back up that Liverpool players covered more ground and had more sprints etc in a game than any other team.

Are they burnt out ? Or have teams found a way to negate the high press?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			That's very interesting to hear pundits talking like that but like yourself I was calling this back in Oct/November

It's only a theory but a plausible one.

Klopp may have over achieved with this group of players early season by not changing much other than attitude to working hard both in and out of possession. Stats back up that Liverpool players covered more ground and had more sprints etc in a game than any other team.

Are they burnt out ? Or have teams found a way to negate the high press?
		
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It's not about LPool alone though is it? Any manager worth their salt will look at the opposition and spot their weakness's, how many times has Jose been slagged off in the past for parking the bus against top teams and beating them, or Arsenal in the past being called boring because of the amount of 1-0 wins they had, is Ranieri now bad as teams have adapted to play Leicester, sometimes it's no more than the opposition doing their homework.


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## sawtooth (Feb 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			It's not about LPool alone though is it? Any manager worth their salt will look at the opposition and spot their weakness's, how many times has Jose been slagged off in the past for parking the bus against top teams and beating them, or Arsenal in the past being called boring because of the amount of 1-0 wins they had, is Ranieri now bad as teams have adapted to play Leicester, sometimes it's no more than the opposition doing their homework.
		
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There's an interesting article on BBC football pages about RB Leipzig ," most hated club in Germany."

They could be talking about Chelsea as there are parallels how external money has fast tracked success in a short amount of time. &#128537;

It sounds like Rangnick is also a fan of the high press, maybe he copied Klopp or the other way around who knows. 

"In Leipzig they place huge emphasis on pressing the other team high up the pitch and winning the ball in the opponent's half. "Even if you're the best player in the world and you're being attacked by three players, you lose the ball," he says."


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 7, 2017)

JÃ¼rgen Klopp has an identical record to Brendan Rodgers in his first 54 PL games as Liverpool boss (W26 D16 L12).

Progress.

Just saying ðŸ˜¬


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 7, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			JÃ¼rgen Klopp has an identical record to Brendan Rodgers in his first 54 PL games as Liverpool boss (W26 D16 L12).

Progress.

Just saying ï˜¬
		
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But at least he's straigyt and gives an honest appraisal of his players rather than "every player played perfect" which is what BR always  spouted.


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## sawtooth (Feb 7, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			JÃ¼rgen Klopp has an identical record to Brendan Rodgers in his first 54 PL games as Liverpool boss (W26 D16 L12).

Progress.

Just saying ï˜¬
		
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The last thing the owners want to see is BR doing well north of the border when Klopp is having a mare.

Tabloids are reporting this morning that BR is being lined up for a sensational return to Anfield in the Summer.

#FakeNews.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			The last thing the owners want to see is BR doing well north of the border when Klopp is having a mare.

Tabloids are reporting this morning that BR is being lined up for a sensational return to Anfield in the Summer.

#FakeNews.
		
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Are you deliberately talking nonsense ?

I expect the owners don't really care what a previous manager is doing - especially in a league which isn't at the same level 

The owners will only care about what the current manager is currently doing 

Rodgers had 3 and half years at the club as manager and had one good season from that , he was poor the first season , poor the last season and shocking in two seasons in Europe.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 7, 2017)

#FakeNews was the clue. It was a wind up.


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## Fish (Feb 7, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are you deliberately talking nonsense ?

I expect the owners don't really care what a previous manager is doing - especially in a league which isn't at the same level 

The owners will only care about what the current manager is currently doing 

Rodgers had 3 and half years at the club as manager and had one good season from that , he was poor the first season , poor the last season and shocking in two seasons in Europe.
		
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He can't himself, he's a lost cause. 

How do you compare or rate the Bundersliga to the Premier League,


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## Fish (Feb 7, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			#FakeNews was the clue. It was a wind up.
		
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Only the second paragraph, it was still a veiled pop still, he's turned into a bit of troll.


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## sawtooth (Feb 7, 2017)

Fish said:



			Only the second paragraph, it was still a veiled pop still, he's turned into a bit of troll.
		
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How is that trolling?

Thats rich coming from someone who routinely calls people "knobs" who have a difference in opinion. 

12 months without an infraction on your signature really ought to read 12 days.

There's banter and then there's personal insults.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 7, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			But at least he's straigyt and gives an honest appraisal of his players rather than "every player played perfect" which is what BR always  spouted.
		
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Yep & don't forget how he's a great character &#128514;


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 7, 2017)

Fish said:



			He can't himself, he's a lost cause. 

How do you compare or rate the Bundersliga to the Premier League,
		
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I thhin they are comparable in terms of the quality of the top teams within the leagues but in Germany I expect there are a few more "dead ducks" as such. Also there is the lack of winter break and when the games are played there seems less pressure and intensity during the German games.

I think for a player it's easier to move from Bundasliga to Prem but as a manager it's going to take a bit of time. 

I think from Serie A to Prem then for the manager the tactics are a bit similar so managers can move over well - as you can see with Conte , his tactics work well both in Serie A and Prem 

Klopp for example once he got his own players in adjusted his tactics at Dortmund - they were superb going forward but also had two superb CB's and players defending will in the middle. Given time he will sort out the defending issue - just needs to also get more pace and width


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## Slime (Feb 7, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Klopp for example once he got his own players in *adjusted his tactics at Dortmund - they were superb going forward but also had two superb CB's and players defending will in the middle. *Given time* he will sort out the defending issue - just needs to also get more pace and width
		
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To be fair though, Phil, he has had three transfer windows and doesn't appear to be much closer to sorting out his defensive issues.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 7, 2017)

Slime said:



			To be fair though, Phil, he has had three transfer windows and doesn't appear to be much closer to sorting out his defensive issues.
		
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For me Winter transfer windows are the time for wholesale changes and it's a hard time to get players teams want - none of the major clubs do much business in the winter anymore or any crucial business , it's an inflated time to buy players . For me the time to look to bring players in is the summer transfer window. His first one so far he brought in a GK and two CB's plus was looking for a left back. 

The CB brought in was a big upgrade on previous players but the GK is the next big issue and you don't get them in the winter. Next summer he will address that again with Ming going and a more experienced than Karius arriving. Plus looking at a left back - I don't think managers should be judged on "transfer windows" - maybe whole seasons and so far Klopp hasn't had one full season yet. As an example it took Klopp two seasons to get Dortmund up to the top in the league - ill look to next May and see what improvements have been made and where we are going.


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## Fish (Feb 7, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As an example it took Klopp two seasons to get Dortmund up to the top in the league - ill look to next May and see what improvements have been made and where we are going.
		
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It did but hence my earlier question, he got them to back to back titles which is commendable, but, when I looked at that today, because I was bored, Munich who have always been pretty dominant (and still are) kind of really fell away for those 2 years only getting 65 & 73 points as runners up with Dortmund winning with 81 and only 75, so, did Klopp really do something special or did Munich fall away for some reason allowing Dortmund in but not really doing anything different from the previous 2 years points wise!

Since then Munich have gone back to dominating the last 4 years and winning their league with 90 points for 2 seasons.  

I'm just wondering is the Bundesliga like the Scottish PL where although there are many teams, only a couple are really going to feature and if one of them wobbles due to manager/owner changes etc, it lets the other team in?

I'm wondering if the PL is going to be too big a step for Klopp, initially, or at least going straight to Liverpool where the expectancy may be too be high for him as they are looking for something he might not be able to deliver as quick as they'd like?

It's not a pop, it's a genuine observation as there are clear cracks already I think in his one-dimensional, high intensity game plans, I think without a very strong bench & squad they can't, as Dortmund couldn't as they eventually plummeted to 7th with only 46 points, maintain that level of playing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 7, 2017)

Fish said:



			It did but hence my earlier question, he got them to back to back titles which is commendable, but, when I looked at that today, because I was bored, Munich who have always been pretty dominant (and still are) kind of really fell away for those 2 years only getting 65 & 73 points as runners up with Dortmund winning with 81 and only 75, so, did Klopp really do something special or did Munich fall away for some reason allowing Dortmund in but not really doing anything different from the previous 2 years points wise!

Since then Munich have gone back to dominating the last 4 years and winning their league with 90 points for 2 seasons.  

I'm just wondering is the Bundesliga like the Scottish PL where although there are many teams, only a couple are really going to feature and if one of them wobbles due to manager/owner changes etc, it lets the other team in?

I'm wondering if the PL is going to be too big a step for Klopp, initially, or at least going straight to Liverpool where the expectancy may be too be high for him as they are looking for something he might not be able to deliver as quick as they'd like?

It's not a pop, it's a genuine observation as there are clear cracks already I think in his one-dimensional, high intensity game plans, I think without a very strong bench & squad they can't, as Dortmund couldn't as they eventually plummeted to 46 points, maintain that level of playing.
		
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It's valid observations because it's always going to be different regardless of what league they manage in and any manager will have a question mark until they deliver in two different leagues - managers like Pep , Ancelotti  and Maureen have so far - with Ancelotti the top of the tree delivering in 4 leagues as well as CL a number of times. 

You are right about the expectation levels with Liverpool - don't think that will ever change , same at all the clubs now , if the manager doesn't be deliver to those expectations then they go - the difference between clubs is the time that is given. 

Will Klopp deliver the title over the next couple of years ? I think he can but first I think he needs to get CL football and then look to build on that - yes it's another "5 year plan etc" but we as a club need to actually build on those plans as opposed to starting over again. Even if Klopp doesn't win the title can see a foundation built for a manager to come in a develop on top of that - but it could all go horribly wrong and we need to start again. 

I do honestly think Klopp is the best chance we have had since Rafa - up to Dec the football we played was amazing - just haven't recovered from losing key players plus he needs to look at ways to break down teams that park the bus , going through the middle isn't going to work. Whilst we are in a bit of dip at the moment I'm still confident that we can get a top 4 slot this year and I think there is prob only one other manager I would have at Liverpool right now and that's Ancelotti


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## pokerjoke (Feb 7, 2017)

Klopp has had imo not enough time and resources to get his own players in,however can he actually attract the players to compete for the title or even a CL place.

Wether Klopp is the right man time will tell but I cant see him ever qualifying for CL or competing for the league whilst the others spend fortunes on players and without CL who are they going to attract and what quality would that be,i suppose it would be players just under that great category or players other big teams don't want.

Klopp so far has failed to change his tact from the high pressing game and has no plan B.

He also has shown weakness in getting the best out of players like Sturrige,Wjnaldum and in one of his better players he plays him too deep to effect the game enough[Henderson].

Two weak keepers a dodgy left back no out and out goalscorer[he has one in Sturridge but Sturridge doesn't work hard enough and looks out of favour,in fact it all looks rather bleak to me.

It will be interesting to see without CL wether he can get any quality and progress or as someone said yet again try another manager,but imo he has to be given more time.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 7, 2017)

One bookmaker already paying out on Chelsea winning the title.


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## garyinderry (Feb 8, 2017)

Its funny how Rodgers gets beat with the Suarez stick yet Klopp seems to be given a by ball when his team is so heavily reliant on Mane making anything happen up top. 

Should Liverpool have held onto Skrtel?  what about the sako thing?  as much as a madman as he looked on the ball, he wasn't all that bad at defending was he? Did Klopp push him out unnecessarily?

Rodgers conceded less goals and scored more in his first 54 premier league games.


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## sawtooth (Feb 8, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Its funny how Rodgers gets beat with the Suarez stick yet Klopp seems to be given a by ball when his team is so heavily reliant on Mane making anything happen up top. 

Should Liverpool have held onto Skrtel?  what about the sako thing?  as much as a madman as he looked on the ball, he wasn't all that bad at defending was he? Did Klopp push him out unnecessarily?

Rodgers conceded less goals and scored more in his first 54 premier league games.
		
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Yeah but Rodgers didn't win the league and Liverpool don't want to wait any longer to win it. Its been almost 27 years so if they have to keep switching managers until they get one that wins the league then that's exactly what they will do.

Question is, how long do they give Klopp? It will be expensive and embarrassing to get rid of him too early (after only extending his contract by 2 years recently) but can they afford to wait till 2022 if they don't ever look like winning the PL?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2017)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-38905510

160bn on a tournament that will be watched by the super rich in half empty stadiums


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## Fish (Feb 8, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-38905510

160bn on a tournament that will be watched by the super rich in half empty stadiums
		
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It's a nonsense it being held there, and what will become of these stadiums afterwards?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah but Rodgers didn't win the league and Liverpool don't want to wait any longer to win it. Its been almost 27 years so if they have to keep switching managers until they get one that wins the league then that's exactly what they will do.

Question is, how long do they give Klopp? It will be expensive and embarrassing to get rid of him too early (after only extending his contract by 2 years recently) but can they afford to wait till 2022 if they don't ever look like winning the PL?
		
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Most clubs ( in fact pretty all bar the odd one ) will make changes when the club and team isn't reaching the heights that is expected of them.

Liverpool fans want to see the team challenging for titles and CL each year - if that doesn't happen then it's likely that the club will look to make change to go with someone else and their methods. 

Why would anyone with any footballing knowledge be even talking about Liverpool getting rid of Klopp at this moment in time ? Klopp will have his targets to meet each year and if he doesn't meet those targets then the club will assess the situation. The silverware in the trophy cabinet will be what the fans and club want ( as do most top clubs )


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## garyinderry (Feb 8, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-38905510

160bn on a tournament that will be watched by the super rich in half empty stadiums
		
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Put simply. Its disgusting.


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## sawtooth (Feb 8, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Put simply. Its disgusting.
		
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If like me you saw the report of starving babies in southern Sudan
Then it really is disgusting.

It's a very strange world that we live in.


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## sawtooth (Feb 8, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Most clubs ( in fact pretty all bar the odd one ) will make changes when the club and team isn't reaching the heights that is expected of them.

Liverpool fans want to see the team challenging for titles and CL each year - if that doesn't happen then it's likely that the club will look to make change to go with someone else and their methods. 

Why would anyone with any footballing knowledge be even talking about Liverpool getting rid of Klopp at this moment in time ? Klopp will have his targets to meet each year and if he doesn't meet those targets then the club will assess the situation. The silverware in the trophy cabinet will be what the fans and club want ( as do most top clubs )
		
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They won't yet that's my point but who knows how bad things will get. 

1 win in 10 is not great but I expect the next 14 games will be a bit different. I hope so for your sake.

If Klopp wins the title within the next 3 seasons through Liverpool spending their own money I swear I will be the first to congratulate him on doing a fantastic job.

I don't think it will happen though.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			They won't yet that's my point but who knows how bad things will get. 

1 win in 10 is not great but I expect the next 14 games will be a bit different. I hope so for your sake.

If Klopp wins the title within the next 3 seasons through Liverpool spending their own money I swear I will be the first to congratulate him on doing a fantastic job.

I don't think it will happen though.
		
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1 win in ten ? 

That's not just league games though is it - when you start to talk about titles etc then use stats relevant to the competition and don't include other comps.

In the last ten league games we have won 5 lost 2 and drawn 3 - last 5 it's three draws and two defeats. Yes the next 14 games are key for everyone but even then Klopps job won't be on the line at the end of season if we continue our struggles 

And if with do win the title within the next three years then I expect you to do into hiding 

And I also don't think Arsenal will win the title in the next three years but the difference between the clubs will be one will look at ways to try and change things even if it means changing manager


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## garyinderry (Feb 8, 2017)

Wonder what odds on liverpool not making top 4 in the next 3 years? 


It would hardly be a stretch of the imagination for the Manchester clubs, spurs arsenal and chelsea to finish above them each year.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 8, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Wonder what odds on liverpool not making top 4 in the next 3 years? 


It would hardly be a stretch of the imagination for the Manchester clubs, spurs arsenal and chelsea to finish above them each year.
		
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I would think pretty hefty. For arguments sake, lets assume Chelsea are a given, thats perhaps five into three with both Manchester clubs, Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool all vying for those places. Recent history will argue that City and United in articular will buy big to try and get a place, Arsenal aren't always as keen to part with the cash and can Liverpool and Spurs really attract the marquee players especially if they haven't got CL as a leverage in the market. I would suggest, and it's only my take that City will qualify more often than not, as will United who will try and buy a place.


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## Fish (Feb 8, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			1 win in 10 is not great but I expect the next 14 games will be a bit different. 

I hope so for your sake..
		
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So you hope a team directly below you competing for your 4th place does well &#128563;


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## sawtooth (Feb 8, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Wonder what odds on liverpool not making top 4 in the next 3 years? 


It would hardly be a stretch of the imagination for the Manchester clubs, spurs arsenal and chelsea to finish above them each year.
		
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History of the past 12 years suggests Chelsea, City and United will feature prominently - assuming there are no major changes to the financial landscape.

Spurs are a very good side but a big worry for them is the ground move and costs associated with that. Plus they have to put up with the same issues that have plagued Arsenal for years and that's how to attain and retain the best players.

Already Dele Ali is being linked with a move away and Spurs are not renowned for spending big.

Kane has been a breath of fresh air and looks like he stay at Spurs no matter what. Good to see.

However Ali, Alderweider, 2 full backs, could double or even treble wages elsewhere. That will be a big challenge for them.

Will Rose or Walker stay on 70K a week if say City offer them 200K?

Spurs and Poch could easily turn out to be the next Arsenal and Wenger and I mean that in the nicest possible way.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 10, 2017)

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...rters-attending-matches-anfield-a7573621.html

Good to see that they won't be allowed in the ground - would be great to see many more stand up to these rags


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 10, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...rters-attending-matches-anfield-a7573621.html

Good to see that they won't be allowed in the ground - would be great to see many more stand up to these rags
		
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Great news, hope every Club bans them.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 10, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I would think pretty hefty. For arguments sake, lets assume Chelsea are a given, thats perhaps five into three with both Manchester clubs, Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool all vying for those places. Recent history will argue that City and United in articular will buy big to try and get a place, Arsenal aren't always as keen to part with the cash and can Liverpool and Spurs really attract the marquee players especially if they haven't got CL as a leverage in the market. I would suggest, and it's only my take that City will qualify more often than not, as will United who will try and buy a place.
		
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Think Spurs will keep their  players as they will get CL football next season, think Liverpool will struggle to get in the top four for the next few seasons, see them finishing 6 th behind Man U who will finish in 5th this season, as you rightly say Chelsea, the two Manchester clubs and Arsenal will be hard to dislodge from the top four and if Spurs can keep their players and add another top quality forward they will be the best equipped to challenge.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 10, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...rters-attending-matches-anfield-a7573621.html

Good to see that they won't be allowed in the ground - would be great to see many more stand up to these rags
		
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Why now? They've been there for the last 25 yrs, presumably a totally new batch of reporters as well. I'm not sure I understand why they have done this at this time. Any explanations?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 10, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Why now? They've been there for the last 25 yrs, presumably a totally new batch of reporters as well. I'm not sure I understand why they have done this at this time. Any explanations?
		
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According to the BBC news I've just seen it was in consultation with the supporters groups representing the victims and so I guess with the recent decisions that there are criminal charges to answer and the ongoing resentment on the way the paper handled everything from day one, now is as good as ever. No doubt they'll put a spin on it and will no doubt find a way to report on games etc


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 10, 2017)

I genuinely can't believe it's taken Liverpool 20+ years to do this. 
The people of Liverpool obviously hate the Sun (and rightly so) so why wasn't this done earlier?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 10, 2017)

They only got justice last year and which 2 papers were the only ones not to announce it on the front page?

The Scum and The Times, 

No apology from them will ever be good enough, just hope Everton step up and do the same and quickly.

It's took too long because of gutless board members not understanding how the community felt.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 10, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			They only got justice last year and which 2 papers were the only ones not to announce it on the front page?

The Scum and The Times, 

No apology from them will ever be good enough, just hope Everton step up and do the same and quickly.

It's took too long because of gutless board members not understanding how the community felt.
		
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Tbf The Sun would have been slated if they had put it on their front page.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 10, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Tbf The Sun would have been slated if they had put it on their front page.
		
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Was there a bigger story? and why would've they been slated? Perfect opportunity to show they'd changed. Rag needs shutting down.


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## Fish (Feb 10, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...rters-attending-matches-anfield-a7573621.html

Good to see that they won't be allowed in the ground - would be great to see many more stand up to these rags
		
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And what about the Star & Mirror?

 Too little too late for me, it isn't damaging any of the edititors or reporters at the time and they could be at other papers now and be able to enter/report!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 10, 2017)

Fish said:



			And what about the Star & Mirror?

 Too little too late for me, it isn't damaging any of the edititors or reporters at the time and they could be at other papers now and be able to enter/report!
		
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No other paper accussed the LPool fans of beating up coppers while giving mouth to mouth to the dying or p1ssing on the dead, current editor initially refused to apologise until justice was finally found.

Even this week they've made 3 apologies, 1 to Prince Harry,1 to Phil Neville and 1 to an Ex Booty who they claimed had smuggled himself across Europe to prove terrorist links.

It's a disgrace as a newspaper that should be closed down.


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## shewy (Feb 10, 2017)

Just seen Warburton has resigned


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## ger147 (Feb 10, 2017)

shewy said:



			Just seen Warburton has resigned
		
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Rangers say he has, Warburton says he hasn't...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38939432


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## shewy (Feb 10, 2017)

Yes very weird, fake news?


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 10, 2017)

Doesn't look a good outcome if they've accepted a resignation that hasn't even been made. What is the problem up there? As an outsider he seems to be doing okay but I don't follow Scottish football too closely.


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## ger147 (Feb 10, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Doesn't look a good outcome if they've accepted a resignation that hasn't even been made. What is the problem up there? As an outsider he seems to be doing okay but I don't follow Scottish football too closely.
		
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Rangers are still in a huge mess, running around a Â£10m a season deficit and with Ashley still having them over a barrel, they can't trade their way out of it.

Warburton has done a pretty decent job IMO but something has gone on behind the scenes so King wants rid of him.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 10, 2017)

Ian Wright been interviewed on 5Live tonight, said he spent a few hours with Wenger last night and believes Wenger is tired and will go at the end of the season.

Pretty poor if it was a private conversation, or is it Wengers way of preparing the Club?


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 10, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Ian Wright been interviewed on 5Live tonight, said he spent a few hours with Wenger last night and believes Wenger is tired and will go at the end of the season.

Pretty poor if it was a private conversation, or is it Wengers way of preparing the Club?
		
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I've gotta go to bed now everyone. But for all those who misinterpreted my comments about the boss, go ***k yourselves &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;

Well that's Ian's message to you Paul &#128559;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 11, 2017)

https://twitter.com/i/moments/830145191310934016

Here's the interview, don't know how else fans would take it.

All he is defending is that he never said Wenger is leaving, just that he got that impression.


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## Fish (Feb 11, 2017)

Arsenal fans will celebrate and fans from other clubs will be devastated when he goes, but I think he'd have to go completely, if he went upstairs and still had an input an incoming manager would be restricted and be expected to follow his philosophy still and then nothing would change, they'd just get a puppet!


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## sawtooth (Feb 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



https://twitter.com/i/moments/830145191310934016

Here's the interview, don't know how else fans would take it.

All he is defending is that he never said Wenger is leaving, just that he got that impression.
		
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I think he'll sign a new contract but it will depend on how Arsenal finish this season.

If we go out in a whimper and finish outside top 4 then that might be it.

Finish strongly and inside top 4, perhaps with a trophy or a good run, then I think he will carry on.

Chewing the fat with some close to the club they share the same feeling. A 2 year offer is on the table for Wenger but it's down to the players to do their bit now and to show a bit more fight and desire to win.

I fully expect a really big improvement from Arsenal today. 

Still most of the Arsenal supporters I know want him to carry on. A few positive results again and hopefully all of this anti Wenger nonsense will die down.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 11, 2017)

Okay, so which one of the top teams is going to throw the odd match in April to allow arsenal to scrape 4th? It's worth the sacrifice to get that new contract signed &#128514;.


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## One Planer (Feb 11, 2017)

Atmosphere at the Emirates is dire!!


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## One Planer (Feb 11, 2017)

How is that not a red card for Gibbs?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2017)

Stadium is half empty 

Arsenal getting he rub of the green at the moment 

Sanchez handball for the goal

Gibbs clear foul on Markovic as he is through on goal with no Arsenal player in front - could easily and prob should be a red card


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## sawtooth (Feb 11, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Stadium is half empty
		
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Today's attendance is 59962

:rofl:


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 11, 2017)

I'm not having a pop at Arsenal here but attendence figures take into account season ticket holders even if they don't turn up. There may be 59,962 there but there may also may not be. That applies to all teams so those with a high proportion of season ticket holders will always have great official figures.

In their defence today, mid day fixtures are always difficult for atmosphere. Worst time of all the football kicko offs imo.


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## sawtooth (Feb 11, 2017)

One Planer said:



			How is that not a red card for Gibbs?
		
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Yes it should have been no question but that's the way it goes. Until they bring in video technology we just all have to put up with the inconsistency and poor decision making of refs today.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Today's attendance is 59962

:rofl:
		
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So why all the empty seats everywhere then ? Or are really small people watching it ? Or maybe they are wearing clothes identical to the colour of the seat because from the pictures being shown on telly there are lots of empty seats , no noise and even the commentary have said it's clearly nowhere near full


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## USER1999 (Feb 11, 2017)

Nice dive.


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## fundy (Feb 11, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Nice dive.
		
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embarrassing


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## sawtooth (Feb 11, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So why all the empty seats everywhere then ? Or are really small people watching it ? Or maybe they are wearing clothes identical to the colour of the seat because from the pictures being shown on telly there are lots of empty seats , no noise and even the commentary have said it's clearly nowhere near full
		
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Who knows, maybe the 500 that couldn't make it were ill?Whats your point? We should sell out on a freezing cold day when our visitors need to travel 230 miles as well?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Who knows, maybe the 500 that couldn't make it were ill?Whats your point? We should sell out on a freezing cold day when our visitors need to travel 230 miles as well?
		
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The point is there is quite clearly not only 500 people who haven't turned up - there are lots of empty spaces in the stadium and it's got the atmosphere of a morgue right now , that to me shows the current feeling within the fans right now. A good amount will have prob not bothered knowing that the season is pretty much nearly over on Feb again !


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## fundy (Feb 11, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The point is there is quite clearly not only 500 people who haven't turned up - there are lots of empty spaces in the stadium and it's got the atmosphere of a morgue right now , that to me shows the current feeling within the fans right now. *A good amount will have prob not bothered knowing that the season is pretty much nearly over on Feb again* !
		
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pretty sure ours is still alive and yours ended in january, its a bit of a joke you banging on about it when youre in a worse situ!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 11, 2017)

fundy said:



			pretty sure ours is still alive and yours ended in january, its a bit of a joke you banging on about it when youre in a worse situ!
		
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:thup:


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## sawtooth (Feb 11, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A good amount will have prob not bothered knowing that the season is pretty much nearly over on Feb again !
		
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Did you write your script yesterday and forgot to edit it before coming on? 59962 attendance, end of.

Nearly over in Feb? is that the best you can do? That's pathetic mate.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 11, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Did you write your script yesterday and forgot to edit it before coming on? 59962 attendance, end of.

Nearly over in Feb? is that the best you can do? That's pathetic mate.
		
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There were nowhere near 59962 people their today, even if you included staff, players and officials.

Doesn't mean your seaon is over of course, but seats sold doesn't not constitute attendance.


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## jp5 (Feb 11, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Did you write your script yesterday and forgot to edit it before coming on? 59962 attendance, end of.

Nearly over in Feb? is that the best you can do? That's pathetic mate.
		
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Oh my, no wonder you so ardently support Wenger if you believe everything the club put out! Explains a lot i guess.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 11, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			There were nowhere near 59962 people their today, even if you included staff, players and officials.

Doesn't mean your seaon is over of course, but seats sold doesn't not constitute attendance.
		
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Yes it does, all clubs give official attendance figures on tickets sold. How do you know if some of those aren't in the concourses in the warm on the drink. 
Atmosphere wise, it was dire!


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## jp5 (Feb 11, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Arsenal getting he rub of the green at the moment 

Sanchez handball for the goal

Gibbs clear foul on Markovic as he is through on goal with no Arsenal player in front - could easily and prob should be a red card
		
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Don't be ridiculous, Arsenal only get bad luck remember!


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## Papas1982 (Feb 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Yes it does, all clubs give official attendance figures on tickets sold. How do you know if some of those aren't in the concourses in the warm on the drink. 
Atmosphere wise, it was dire!
		
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i'd have thought the very definition of attendance is the number that actually attend. 

I accept all clubs do the same, but that doesn't mean that its the correct figure, just means its what they use to try and save face.


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## sawtooth (Feb 11, 2017)

jp5 said:



			Oh my, no wonder you so ardently support Wenger if you believe everything the club put out! Explains a lot i guess.
		
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Right on cue. LP says something daft and his back up arrives.


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## jp5 (Feb 11, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Right on cue. LP says something daft and his back up arrives.
		
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Lol, not interested in backing up anyone, just genuinely concerned for anyone that thinks the stadium was 99% full today. Dont your eyes tell you otherwise? It is the post truth era I suppose.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 11, 2017)

So instead of discussing the game and a decent win against what could've been a banana skin, Arsenal fans are arguing with each other and the rest are discussing attendance figures, we have all gone a bit sad on this thread.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 11, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			i'd have thought the very definition of attendance is the number that actually attend. 

I accept all clubs do the same, but that doesn't mean that its the correct figure, just means its what they use to try and save face.
		
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They can't fiddle them, it's what's used for accounting purposes as well. 10,000 season tickets holders not turning up are still counted.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			So instead of discussing the game and a decent win against what could've been a banana skin, Arsenal fans are arguing with each other and the rest are discussing attendance figures, we have all gone a bit sad on this thread.
		
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I thought they were fortunate with the win, but there are encouraging signs for Hull. With a little bit of luck and maybe some calls going there way (hazard of being small team away), the could easily of got a point.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			They can't fiddle them, it's what's used for accounting purposes as well. 10,000 season tickets holders not turning up are still counted.
		
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That's not what i'm saying at all.

They could sell all the season tickets to rich fans who only watch them play the top clubs. So on matchday only against smaller clubs only 50000 *ATTEND. *My point re fiddling is that it looks better if they say the stadium is full on happy gunners when clearly it wasn't. 

Saw this a few years ago.

https://angryofislington.com/2014/0...figures-how-many-actually-turn-up-to-matches/


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 11, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I thought they were fortunate with the win, but there are encouraging signs for Hull. With a little bit of luck and maybe some calls going there way (hazard of being small team away), the could easily of got a point.
		
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Agreed, the way the season has gone, I thought they might of sneaked a point.


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## jp5 (Feb 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			They can't fiddle them, it's what's used for accounting purposes as well. 10,000 season tickets holders not turning up are still counted.
		
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It's not attendance then is it. It's tickets sold. They stopped announcing the 'attendance' at the Emirates as it just evoked jeers when they claim the stadium is full when it's clearly not.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Agreed, the way the season has gone, I thought they might of sneaked a point.
		
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I'm torn, the way we are falling over atm i want the bottom 3 teams relegated asap. But i also have a decent size bet on Leicester to be relegated, so need them to struggle to.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 11, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			That's not what i'm saying at all.

They could sell all the season tickets to rich fans who only watch them play the top clubs. So on matchday only against smaller clubs only 50000 *ATTEND. *My point re fiddling is that it looks better if they say the stadium is full on happy gunners when clearly it wasn't. 

Saw this a few years ago.

https://angryofislington.com/2014/0...figures-how-many-actually-turn-up-to-matches/

Click to expand...

We could all see how the ground looked, but that still doesn't change the official attendance, and that's what was posted on here. I would imagine every single club announced the ticket sold attendances rather than bums on seats.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			We could all see how the ground looked, but that still doesn't change the official attendance, and that's what was posted on here. I would imagine every single club announced the ticket sold attendances rather than bums on seats.
		
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Considering you complained about people not  discussing the game you're doing well lol. 

Nobody has said it isn't official, but using it to try and claim a ground is full and all is good, as was done, is just stupid IMO, hence my original post. 

Had a little google and could only find a definition for attendance, not "official attendance" so i'll still stick with that. 

Anyways, almost 3pm, we can discuss another lackluster saints performance in 120 mins.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 11, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Consideringyoucomplainedaboutpoeplenotdiscussingthegame.You're doing well lol.

Nobody has said it isn't official, but using it to try and claim a ground is full and all is good, as was done, is just stupid IMO, hence my original post. 

Had a little google and could only find a definition for attendance, not "official attendance" so i'll still stick with that. 

Anyways, almost 3pm, we can discuss another lackluster saints performance in 120 mins.
		
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:rofl: I answered your question and I did say WE ARE ALL SAD, for the kids next door I hope Sunderland get 3 points today.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			:rofl: I answered your question and I did say WE ARE ALL SAD, for the kids next door I hope Sunderland get 3 points today.
		
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I presume you mean next door to you?

My neighbours kids may learn some new words if it goes wrong again!!.


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## Fish (Feb 11, 2017)

Ok it's 3 points and there are those that will say that's all that matters, but for me I would be very worried if I was an Arsenal fan because that not only could have been a dull 0-0 draw at home as there is clear controversy with the goal, then there should have been a red card when Hull had some momentum going and then this could have been a real nail in the Wenger coffin. 

There's simply nothing clinical for me with any Arsenal performances so I can't see what there foundation is or where they can build from to become a force to compete as title challengers instead of being the ever present just enough to get 4th and CL football every season team, there's nothing convincing about Arsenal whatsoever and if Sanchez goes in the summer, which I expect swiftly followed by Ozil, then there building from scratch again. 

#GroundhogDay


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## fundy (Feb 11, 2017)

Fish said:



			Ok it's 3 points and there are those that will say that's all that matters, but for me I would be very worried if I was an Arsenal fan because that not only could have been a dull 0-0 draw at home as there is clear controversy with the goal, then there should have been a red card when Hull had some momentum going and then this could have been a real nail in the Wenger coffin. 

There's simply nothing clinical for me with any Arsenal performances so I can't see what there foundation is or where they can build from to become a force to compete as title challengers instead of being the ever present just enough to get 4th and CL football every season team, there's nothing convincing about Arsenal whatsoever and if Sanchez goes in the summer, which I expect swiftly followed by Ozil, then there building from scratch again. 

#GroundhogDay
		
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geez fish, dont become a broken record too please mate


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			:rofl: I answered your question and I did say WE ARE ALL SAD, for the kids next door I hope Sunderland get 3 points today.
		
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Did you see the picture of little Bradley falling asleep on Defoe during the week? Lovely photo, I'm sure it brought many a tear to the eye.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 11, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Did you see the picture of little Bradley falling asleep on Defoe during the week? Lovely photo, I'm sure it brought many a tear to the eye.
		
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Great to see, Bradley and Defoe seem to have bonded.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 11, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Did you see the picture of little Bradley falling asleep on Defoe during the week? Lovely photo, I'm sure it brought many a tear to the eye.
		
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I saw that, credit to defoe, looked totally natural.
Like he was happy (for want of a better word) to be there.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 11, 2017)

It appears we may have found a replacement lump for Pelle.


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## Hobbit (Feb 11, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Did you see the picture of little Bradley falling asleep on Defoe during the week? Lovely photo, I'm sure it brought many a tear to the eye.
		
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*cough* no I didn't have a lump in my throat or tear in my eye when I showed it to HID


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## jp5 (Feb 11, 2017)

Fish said:



			if Sanchez goes in the summer, which I expect swiftly followed by Ozil, then there building from scratch again.
		
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This is the biggest risk to Wenger staying on. I feel that a new manager could give the boost and fresh ideas the team, which has been together a few years now, needs - to push them to realise their potential. If we were to have to start over, we could be in trouble.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 11, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			It appears we may have found a replacement lump for Pelle.
		
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1st goal was handball, 2nd was quality.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Great to see, Bradley and Defoe seem to have bonded.
		
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Papas1982 said:



			I saw that, credit to defoe, looked totally natural.
Like he was happy (for want of a better word) to be there.
		
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If they are not careful footballers may be getting a good name over this issue. Clubs are getting involved, players are playing their part. All very genuine. If anyone can produce a better picture on any subject this year then I'd love to see it.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			1st goal was handball, 2nd was quality.
		
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My feed is useless so have given up til this evening.

Haven't seen either, but if he gets em off his backside whilst looking the wrong way i won't mind!


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 11, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Did you see the picture of little Bradley falling asleep on Defoe during the week? Lovely photo, I'm sure it brought many a tear to the eye.
		
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Brilliant from Defoe. 
I could cry everytime I see young Bradley. 
Such a brave little boy.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 11, 2017)

According to Sky news Ref has apologised to hull for the handball goal


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## One Planer (Feb 11, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			According to Sky news Ref has apologised to hull for the handball goal
		
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Bit pointless really now though isn't it?

Did he also apologise bottling sending Gibbs off?


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## One Planer (Feb 11, 2017)

Oh look.  6 minutes injury time ay the Brit'.


I'd love to know where that's come from!


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## Papas1982 (Feb 11, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Bit pointless really now though isn't it?

Did he also apologise bottling sending Gibbs off?
		
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He know's he can get away with the handball, it's not his fault as he didn't have right view.So apologising make's him look good.

The sending off would show him at fault if he admitted it.


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## Fish (Feb 11, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Bit pointless really now though isn't it?

Did he also apologise bottling sending Gibbs off?
		
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Red card all day long, no attempt to get the ball at all &#128545;

https://youtu.be/nOQD2du-sT4

Feel for Hull, they deserved a point imo and against 10 men who knows they could have stolen all 3, terrible refereeing.


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## One Planer (Feb 11, 2017)

Fish said:



			Red card all day long, no attempt to get the ball at all &#128545;

https://youtu.be/nOQD2du-sT4

Feel for Hull, they deserved a point imo and against 10 men who knows they could have stolen all 3, terrible refereeing.
		
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Battenberg all over!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 11, 2017)

Superb save from Robles in the last minute to get us a point, after a good first half were Valdes kept them in it, Boro were the better team in the 2nd half, why he brought Valencia and Lennon on I'll never know, did nothing, added nothing, just shocking. But unbeaten in 8 and looking for Spurs to do us a favour and keep us just 5 points off 6th.


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## Hobbit (Feb 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Superb save from Robles in the last minute to get us a point, after a good first half were Valdes kept them in it, Boro were the better team in the 2nd half, why he brought Valencia and Lennon on I'll never know, did nothing, added nothing, just shocking. But unbeaten in 8 and looking for Spurs to do us a favour and keep us just 5 points off 6th.
		
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We was robbed!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 11, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			We was robbed!
		
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Superb save mate and as it was so late, yep, you could say that :whoo:


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## Slime (Feb 11, 2017)

Actually above Liverpool for the first time in far too long.
I'll be a Spurs supporter tonight ................ COYS  :whoo:.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 11, 2017)

All hail the saviour.................


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## Jensen (Feb 11, 2017)

Ben Davies having absolute mare, get him off !
Danny Rose get back asap


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## Papas1982 (Feb 11, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Ben Davies having absolute mare, get him off !
Danny Rose get back asap
		
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Probably doesn't help that his being taken on 3-1 with no help though.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 11, 2017)

Really good from Liverpool in that first half but Spurs definitely the architects of their own downfall


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## Jensen (Feb 11, 2017)

Tottenham extremely poor first half. Unable to retain possession, ball coming straight back. All at sea at the back, not helped by Davies,
Really fancied us before game as Liverpool were very fragile coming into game.
At least there's another 45 to go and Spurs can't be any worse


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## Papas1982 (Feb 11, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Tottenham extremely poor first half. Unable to retain possession, ball coming straight back. All at sea at the back, not helped by Davies,
Really fancied us before game as Liverpool were very fragile coming into game.
At least there's another 45 to go and Spurs can't be any worse
		
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Should have played 5 at back and countered. Attacking them plays into their hands. 

Their poor form has come generally against lesser clubs.


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## anotherdouble (Feb 11, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Tottenham extremely poor first half. Unable to retain possession, ball coming straight back. All at sea at the back, not helped by Davies,
Really fancied us before game as Liverpool were very fragile coming into game.
At least there's another 45 to go and Spurs can't be any worse
		
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That is why just like Arsenal you won't win the league in the foreseeable. In your own words Liverpool were fragile com g into the game yet they are tearing you a new one. These are the games you need to win but bottle. Can never win games if you can't defend


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## Papas1982 (Feb 11, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			That is why just like Arsenal you won't win the league in the foreseeable. In your own words Liverpool were fragile com g into the game yet they are tearing you a new one. These are the games you need to win but bottle. Can never win games if you can't defend
		
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Spurs are in another place to Arsenal. Too early to write them off for the next decade.


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## Jensen (Feb 11, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			That is why just like Arsenal you won't win the league in the foreseeable. In your own words Liverpool were fragile com g into the game yet they are tearing you a new one. These are the games you need to win but bottle. Can never win games if you can't defend
		
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Sadly, I can't disagree and I agree with you 100%.
Unfortunately seems to be in our DNA, even though we're not as soft as we were.
45 to go, come on Spurs


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## richy (Feb 11, 2017)

Oh my god! Liverpool are going to win the league


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 11, 2017)

With LiverpoolPhil having a pop at Arsenal fans for not attending the game earlier I assume he's at Anfield now?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 11, 2017)

richy said:



			Oh my god! Liverpool are going to win the league
		
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I've more chance of single figures


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## sawtooth (Feb 11, 2017)

At this rate we might see StuartC and Liverbirdie back on here later.


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## Jensen (Feb 11, 2017)

On comes our Â£30 million of talent....ðŸ˜‚


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## Fish (Feb 11, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I've more chance of single figures
		
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&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128077;


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## Jensen (Feb 11, 2017)

Worst game Eric Dier has had in a Spurs shirt, which in fairness to him is the first I've witnessed.
Bitterly spineless performance, couldn't retain possession resulting in the ball coming straight back.
Dropped big points last 2 games by not being able to open up Sunderland and not getting something from a game that Liverpool were fragile going in to. Can't understand why Dembele taken off both games with 20 mins to go as he is a massive player for us.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 11, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			At this rate we might see StuartC and Liverbirdie back on here later.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe they did win after all.

Singing when your winning will spring to mind


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## pokerjoke (Feb 11, 2017)

Slime said:



			Actually above Liverpool for the first time in far too long.
I'll be a Spurs supporter tonight ................ COYS  :whoo:.
		
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Good news mate we are playing so well at the moment its in our own hands now we wont need help:thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2017)

That's one way to grab form again - mullering Spurs , should have been more than 2


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 11, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 21928


That's one way to grab form again - mullering Spurs , should have been more than 2
		
Click to expand...

Until the next blip. Sadly Arsenal and Liverpool are incapable of stringing runs together without careless loss of points and are competing for 4th place at best. Spurs can kiss any remaining hope of the PL if Chelsea win tomorrow


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## Rlburnside (Feb 11, 2017)

Think this is one of the few times Poch. got his tactics wrong,with Liverpool playing so poor of late he maybe thought he could play a adventurous style and it backfired big time. From having one of the best defences this season we looked to have the worst tonight.

Liverpool were brilliant tonight and should have the game sown up at half time, plenty of energy and first to the ball most of the match.

1-11 we have a good a side as anyone,but with Rose,Vertongen and Lamella out it really showed tonight that we haven't got a good enough squad, look at our bench compared to Chelsea and City, can't compete with that amount of spending.

But imo we will finish in the top 4, and that would hopefully bring in better players.


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## guest100718 (Feb 11, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			Think this is one of the few times Poch. got his tactics wrong,with Liverpool playing so poor of late he maybe thought he could play a adventurous style and it backfired big time. From having one of the best defences this season we looked to have the worst tonight.

Liverpool were brilliant tonight and should have the game sown up at half time, plenty of energy and first to the ball most of the match.

1-11 we have a good a side as anyone,but with Rose,Vertongen and Lamella out it really showed tonight that we haven't got a good enough squad, look at our bench compared to Chelsea and City, can't compete with that amount of spending.

But imo we will finish in the top 4, and that would hopefully bring in better players.
		
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half of that defence was missing today.  No one higher than burnley to play away from home now : )


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 11, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 21928


That's one way to grab form again - mullering Spurs , should have been more than 2
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool were very good today but where has that team been for the last six weeks.
should have been at least four up at half time.
Mane makes so much difference hounds defenders you don't see Sturrige doing that.
Spurs very poor no fight, no tactics the way to play us is sit back for the first half then have a go later in the game, I think they expected to steamroller us but they just bottled it.

worst performance was the ref how he managed to book nine players is a mystery there were four max.

good to see the fight from the Reds but Klopp still needs to sort out a plan B just as well plan A worked a treat today.

Congrats to Chealsea can't see them losing it now but fight is on for next three places.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 11, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Liverpool were very good today but where has that team been for the last six weeks.
should have been at least four up at half time.
Mane makes so much difference hounds defenders you don't see Sturrige doing that.
Spurs very poor no fight, no tactics the way to play us is sit back for the first half then have a go later in the game, I think they expected to steamroller us but they just bottled it.

worst performance was the ref how he managed to book nine players is a mystery there were four max.

good to see the fight from the Reds but Klopp still needs to sort out a plan B just as well plan A worked a treat today.

Congrats to Chealsea can't see them losing it now but fight is on for next three places.
		
Click to expand...

Very accurate summary. Wasn't aware it was as many as nine yellows but it really wasn't that sort of game so sums the referee up perfectly for me.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 11, 2017)

The titles over. It's all about 2-4 and relegation now.


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## sawtooth (Feb 11, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			1-11 we have a good a side as anyone,but with Rose,Vertongen and Lamella out it really showed tonight that we haven't got a good enough squad, look at our bench compared to Chelsea and City, can't compete with that amount of spending.
		
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Absolutely bang on and welcome to my world. 

Its not just having the superstars in the team and on the bench but keeping them all happy YoY is a challenge. Its a very expensive business and teams like Spurs do very well to occupy top 4 believe me.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 11, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The titles over. It's all about 2-4 and relegation now.
		
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Go on then, what do you think?


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 11, 2017)

Too close to call with too many games left. It's 3 from 5 and at the moment I don't think anyone could say which ones with any confidence.

Fair play to Chelsea, they are so consistent, something the others have all failed at.

Who do you fancy?


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 11, 2017)

That was a cop out. With minimal confidence I'll go City, Utd (boy that hurts), and Spurs. I'm happy to accept that two of those could be wrong and honestly I couldn't tell you which two.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 11, 2017)

I'm going Spurs, City and Arsenal in no particular order. Going down will be Sunderland, Palace and Hull


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 11, 2017)

I wouldn't argue with any of that. Leicester and Swansea are more than capable of joining the party at the bottom but this three look pretty poor. I can see Palace potentially putting a run together to escape but they need to do something soon. They could be this years Newcastle.


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## sawtooth (Feb 11, 2017)

Have to agree with Wrighty on MOTD, Gabbiadini looks quite a player for Soton for Â£14M.  I think Utd will have to watch him very carefully in a couple of weeks time.


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## Imurg (Feb 12, 2017)

If ever there was a need for replays and a video ref then Arsenal's first goal is a stand out example......
Gibbs should have gone - last season there would have been no doubt....
10 man Arsenal probably wouldn't have won that.

The game needs to find a way to incorporate the tech .


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 12, 2017)

Hobbit, is Traore that good normally or did MotD flatter him? He looked very exciting running with the ball. Do you get get an end product with him or does that need improvement?


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## Rlburnside (Feb 12, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I'm going Spurs, City and Arsenal in no particular order. Going down will be Sunderland, Palace and Hull
		
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Think you got the top four right, same as I said a couple of weeks ago.:thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 12, 2017)

Looking at the games that people have to play my top four would be 

Chelsea 
Man City
Liverpool
Spurs

Getting relegated 

Palace
Hull
Sunderland


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## Papas1982 (Feb 12, 2017)

My take would be.

Chelsea
Utd
City
Arsenal

Leicester
Palace
Sunderland


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 12, 2017)

Imurg said:



			If ever there was a need for replays and a video ref then Arsenal's first goal is a stand out example......
Gibbs should have gone - last season there would have been no doubt....
10 man Arsenal probably wouldn't have won that.

The game needs to find a way to incorporate the tech .
		
Click to expand...

agree with the tech for the first goal but "The best ref in the world " as Clattenburg has been described lately to only show a yellow for that by Gibbs shows refs these days can't distinguish between a "professional foul" and just a clumsy one.

The lad he sent off for handball will miss 3 games quite right ,but he never hurt anyone.
Gibbs will miss none and he could have hurt the striker.

I also thought refs were not allowed to view incidents at half time , has this changed ?. 

as ref apologised to hull before the second half had started for the handball goal which was the linesmans fault really that's what he is there for


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## jp5 (Feb 12, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			The lad he sent off for handball will miss 3 games quite right ,but he never hurt anyone.
Gibbs will miss none and he could have hurt the striker.
		
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1 game only for that red I think? 3 for violent conduct. But Gibbs was very lucky not to be off as last man.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 12, 2017)

Can't see either Liverpool or Spurs sustaining a top four place as both lack depth in their squads and that is often vital in the run-in.

As for the drop I would, at this stage, go for Swansea, Palace & Sunderland.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 12, 2017)

jp5 said:



			1 game only for that red I think? 3 for violent conduct. But Gibbs was very lucky not to be off as last man.
		
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Always thought straight red card was three games.


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## Fish (Feb 12, 2017)

&#128079;&#128079;&#128079; cut them open &#128077;


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## anotherdouble (Feb 12, 2017)

BOOM


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 12, 2017)

That really was top draw &#128547;


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## anotherdouble (Feb 12, 2017)

Great free kick. Unstoppable. Placed to perfection.


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## Fish (Feb 12, 2017)

Good goal &#128079;


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## garyinderry (Feb 12, 2017)

Lads you are all mad if you think that sanchez intentionally handballed for the first goal.

Forget about what clattenburg said or did not say at half time with the hull players breathing down his neck. 

Had sanchez punched the ball or made any kind of motion towards the ball i would just say so. What i say doesnt change anything, so i will just say what i see. 

Sanchez stretches with his left foot and strikes the ball towards goal. In stretching for the ball his right hand raises to balance himself. This is pefectly natural. 

The ball rebounds almost immediately from the goalkeeper and strikes sanchez  fortutiously. 

The only grieveance a team can have is should a team be allowed to benefit so heavily from a touch of the hand, be it intentional or not. 

 Gibbs on the other hand is a Lucky boy. Walks for that 9/10 these days.  The only thing that saved him was that markovich wasnt under control of the ball as he made his challenge. Had he just run after and not into, the lad still had a bit to do so wasnt a clear cut goal scoring opportunity . Had the ball been fed in along the floor then gibbs would have walked, no question. 

In saying that, every fan will bay for blood from that challenge. Expect the red and feel aggreeived as a yellow and a free 30 yards from goal doesnt seem like a fair punishment for such a challenge that is tettering on game changing.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 12, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Lads you are all mad if you think that sanchez intentionally handballed for the first goal.

Forget about what clattenburg said or did not say at half time with the hull players breathing down his neck. 

Had sanchez punched the ball or made any kind of motion towards the ball i would just say so. What i say doesnt change anything, so i will just say what i see. 

Sanchez stretches with his left foot and strikes the ball towards goal. In stretching for the ball his right hand raises to balance himself. This is pefectly natural. 

The ball rebounds almost immediately from the goalkeeper and strikes sanchez  fortutiously. 

The only grieveance a team can have is should a team be allowed to benefit so heavily from a touch of the hand, be it intentional or not. 

 Gibbs on the other hand is a Lucky boy. Walks for that 9/10 these days.  The only thing that saved him was that markovich wasnt under control of the ball as he made his challenge. Had he just run after and not into, the lad still had a bit to do so wasnt a clear cut goal scoring opportunity . Had the ball been fed in along the floor then gibbs would have walked, no question. 

In saying that, every fan will bay for blood from that challenge. Expect the red and feel aggrieved as a yellow and a free 30 yards from goal doesn't seem like a fair punishment for such a challenge that is teetering on game changing.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure many said he intentionally hand balled, but he gained an advantage from it so should have been ruled out.Much like when there's a tackle in he box and people seem to think it's either a penalty or a dive, sometimes its just a tackle yet players get booked for diving.

Gibbs should have walked though and it wasn't a difficult decision, which makes his apology even more pathetic


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 12, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Lads you are all mad if you think that sanchez intentionally handballed for the first goal.

Forget about what clattenburg said or did not say at half time with the hull players breathing down his neck. 

Had sanchez punched the ball or made any kind of motion towards the ball i would just say so. What i say doesnt change anything, so i will just say what i see. 

Sanchez stretches with his left foot and strikes the ball towards goal. In stretching for the ball his right hand raises to balance himself. This is pefectly natural. 

The ball rebounds almost immediately from the goalkeeper and strikes sanchez  fortutiously. 

The only grieveance a team can have is should a team be allowed to benefit so heavily from a touch of the hand, be it intentional or not. 

 Gibbs on the other hand is a Lucky boy. Walks for that 9/10 these days.  The only thing that saved him was that markovich wasnt under control of the ball as he made his challenge. Had he just run after and not into, the lad still had a bit to do so wasnt a clear cut goal scoring opportunity . Had the ball been fed in along the floor then gibbs would have walked, no question. 

In saying that, every fan will bay for blood from that challenge. Expect the red and feel aggreeived as a yellow and a free 30 yards from goal doesnt seem like a fair punishment for such a challenge that is tettering on game changing.
		
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sorry but you can't score a goal intentional or not with your hand.

it was ball to hand anywhere else ,I don't really think he can get out of the way ,but you can't score with your hand.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 12, 2017)

So Burnley have picked up 29 of their 30pts at home. 
How can they struggle so much away?


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## sawtooth (Feb 12, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			So Burnley have picked up 29 of their 30pts at home. 
How can they struggle so much away?
		
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Who cares. 

Chelsea millionaires only managed a draw.&#9786; BOOM!


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## Fish (Feb 12, 2017)

I said weeks ago that our toughest game was going to be away to Burnley when everyone was going on about Liverpool away & Arsenal.  

Real gritty display from Burnley who worked tirelessly as a team and deserved the point. 

Dont think we'll have a tougher game than that in our run in, and to be honest, knowing the Spurs result I'd have taken a point before a ball was kicked with Burnley not losing at home for the last 5 matches!

Now, do I want Bournemouth to keep it to a 10 point lead or do I want City to knock Arsenal & Liverpool down a place &#129300;, is an 8 point lead enough still at this stage &#129300;, although the break now due to the FA Cup will do us good.


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## sawtooth (Feb 12, 2017)

Fish said:



			I said weeks ago that our toughest game was going to be away to Burnley when everyone was going on about Liverpool away & Arsenal.  

Real gritty display from Burnley who worked tirelessly as a team and deserved the point. 

Dont think we'll have a tougher game than that in our run in, and to be honest, knowing the Spurs result I'd have taken a point before a ball was kicked with Burnley not losing at home for the last 5 matches!

Now, do I want Bournemouth to keep it to a 10 point lead or do I want City to knock Arsenal & Liverpool down a place &#129300;, is an 8 point lead enough still at this stage &#129300;, although the break now due to the FA Cup will do us good.
		
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Spurs dropped 7 points in the last 3 games last year.

I suggest on this occasion you forget your bitterness against Arsenal and Liverpool and hope that City don't close the gap.

No easy games anywhere you look.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 12, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Who cares. 

Chelsea millionaires only managed a draw.&#9786; BOOM!
		
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Won't do Arsenal much good tho will it &#128514;


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## sawtooth (Feb 12, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Won't do Arsenal much good tho will it &#128514;
		
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No that's right , Chelsea have won it already.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 12, 2017)

Fish said:



			I said weeks ago that our toughest game was going to be away to Burnley when everyone was going on about Liverpool away & Arsenal.  

Real gritty display from Burnley who worked tirelessly as a team and deserved the point. 

Dont think we'll have a tougher game than that in our run in, and to be honest, knowing the Spurs result I'd have taken a point before a ball was kicked with Burnley not losing at home for the last 5 matches!

Now, do I want Bournemouth to keep it to a 10 point lead or do I want City to knock Arsenal & Liverpool down a place &#27138;, is an 8 point lead enough still at this stage &#27138;, although the break now due to the FA Cup will do us good.
		
Click to expand...

yes agree gritty by Burnley but was impressed with  Chelsea they have a real team spirit lacking in some top teams .
They dug in and played very well just the final ball a bit lacking from both teams.

Conditions were tough but really good game to watch for the neutral.

was impressed with Costa again proper target man.


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## Fish (Feb 12, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Spurs dropped 7 points in the last 3 games last year.

I suggest on this occasion you forget your bitterness against Arsenal and Liverpool and hope that City don't close the gap.

No easy games anywhere you look.
		
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I have no bitterness towards Liverpool and don't believe I've displayed any, I have a bet running and I want to win it, it's not personal unlike your pathetic constant snipes and digs against Chelsea even willing teams on to beat us who are in direct competition to your own place, now that's bitterness and says more about you than me!

We won't have a tougher match than that and if you think we're capable of dropping the same amount of points than Spurs have then your a bigger knob now than you were last week &#128514;&#128514;

The Burnley goal was class, they worked tirelessly and deserved their point and the break for the FA Cup will do us good. 

Now Arsenal, I have no reason to be bitter, because your nothing, your no competition, your not title challengers and I will run down the 1st fairway naked at H4H's if you finish out of the top 4 &#128514;&#128514;


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## Fish (Feb 12, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			yes agree gritty by Burnley but was impressed with  Chelsea they have a real team spirit lacking in some top teams .
They dug in and played very well just the final ball a bit lacking from both teams.

Conditions were tough but really good game to watch for the neutral.

was impressed with Costa again proper target man.
		
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Just 1 touch too many at times in and around the box, there was a couple of occasions that an instinctive first time strike could have tested the keeper more. Also so many scuffed clearances bouncing on the D that Lampard would have pounced on yet we don't have anyone just hanging out there!


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## sawtooth (Feb 12, 2017)

Fish said:



			I have no bitterness towards Liverpool and don't believe I've displayed any, I have a bet running and I want to win it, it's not personal unlike your pathetic constant snipes and digs against Chelsea even willing teams on to beat us who are in direct competition to your own place, now that's bitterness and says more about you than me!

We won't have a tougher match than that and if you think we're capable of dropping the same amount of points than Spurs have then your a bigger knob now than you were last week &#128514;&#128514;

The Burnley goal was class, they worked tirelessly and deserved their point and the break for the FA Cup will do us good. 

Now Arsenal, I have no reason to be bitter, because your nothing, your no competition, your not title challengers and I will run down the 1st fairway naked at H4H's if you finish out of the top 4 &#128514;&#128514;
		
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Haha, you're just like your team. 

Showing signs of cracking.

Good comedy value Fish keep it going mate.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 12, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			So Burnley have picked up 29 of their 30pts at home. 
How can they struggle so much away?
		
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I've never understood this about football. Why do Burnley set up so different away for home? They are not alone, nearly all teams do it. I'd love to ask that question to a manager or pro at some point. Can't think of another sport that behaves in the same way.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 12, 2017)

Fish said:



			Just 1 touch too many at times in and around the box, there was a couple of occasions that an instinctive first time strike could have tested the keeper more. Also so many scuffed clearances bouncing on the D that Lampard would have pounced on yet we don't have anyone just hanging out there!
		
Click to expand...

As much as I agree Burnley's workrate was superb and they never stopped, I did also think they seem to get the rub of the green as well a few times, loose balls were bouncing towards Burnley players or mis-kicks finding one of their own, adding that to your points above I think you's were having one of those days.


PS. I reckon your game at our place will be a harder test


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## Fish (Feb 12, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I've never understood this about football. Why do Burnley set up so different away for home? They are not alone, nearly all teams do it. I'd love to ask that question to a manager or pro at some point. Can't think of another sport that behaves in the same way.
		
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It's the same in European games, how many times over the years in the past have we seen English teams dominate their domestic league only to change their formation in Europe only then not to play to their strengths and lose?!


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## anotherdouble (Feb 12, 2017)

Burnley today kept their shape and discipline. One of the only teams I have seen do so against Chelsea this season. Why they can't do this away I don't know.


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## sawtooth (Feb 12, 2017)

You see Jamie, no disrespect to Leicester but when a big club like Arsenal come knocking you simply have to take the opportunity. You may not get another.


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## Jensen (Feb 12, 2017)

Fish said:



			We won't have a tougher match than that and if you think we're capable of dropping the same amount of points than Spurs have then your a bigger knob now than you were last week &#128514;&#128514;
		
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Really &#128563; You've still got Spurs to play, all be it at the bridge. After all it was Spurs that put the end to the Chelski run.

Yidio, Yidio &#128512;&#128512;&#128512;


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## Slime (Feb 12, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			You see Jamie, no disrespect to Leicester but *when a big club like Arsenal* come knocking you simply have to take the opportunity. You may not get another.
		
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Surely you mean a bigger club.
Big clubs win stuff.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 12, 2017)

Slime said:



			Surely you mean a bigger club.
Big clubs win stuff.
		
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Well that's one bite &#128547;


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## Tashyboy (Feb 12, 2017)

Fish said:



			I said weeks ago that our toughest game was going to be away to Burnley when everyone was going on about Liverpool away & Arsenal.  

Real gritty display from Burnley who worked tirelessly as a team and deserved the point. 

Dont think we'll have a tougher game than that in our run in, and to be honest, knowing the Spurs result I'd have taken a point before a ball was kicked with Burnley not losing at home for the last 5 matches!

Now, do I want Bournemouth to keep it to a 10 point lead or do I want City to knock Arsenal & Liverpool down a place &#27138;, is an 8 point lead enough still at this stage &#27138;, although the break now due to the FA Cup will do us good.
		
Click to expand...


Nah then fish, re the Citeh tomorrow, hope we get the three point to narrow it to eight. But, if but would could and should. Chelsea have just City and Utd to play from the top six. Drop points there and both Manc teams are finding form. That could be down to 2 points.

Talksport was saying how Chelsea will walk it as the rest of there games are v teams outside of the top six and that's where they have got there most points. Today proved otherwise.

looking forward to the run in.


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## Jensen (Feb 12, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Really &#128563; You've still got Spurs to play, all be it at the bridge. After all it was Spurs that put the end to the Chelski run.

Yidio, Yidio &#128512;&#128512;&#128512;
		
Click to expand...

Oops, maybe not &#128563;

Yidio, Yidio


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 12, 2017)

It was as good a performance by Burnley as it was abject by Leicester and I really think they are in trouble now. Is Claudio or do you think the title last year will keep him in the job until the end of the season, whether they stay up or not


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## Tashyboy (Feb 12, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			It was as good a performance by Burnley as it was abject by Leicester and I really think they are in trouble now. Is Claudio or do you think the title last year will keep him in the job until the end of the season, whether they stay up or not
		
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Homer Re Leicester, last year when I saw them play they smelt blood when they played the opposition. Now I get the distinct feeling that the opposition smell blood when playing them. Could be a long end of season run in, especially when the champs league kicks in again.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 12, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Homer Re Leicester, last year when I saw them play they smelt blood when they played the opposition. Now I get the distinct feeling that the opposition smell blood when playing them. Could be a long end of season run in, especially when the champs league kicks in again.
		
Click to expand...

I saw them come onto the pitch today and they looked vacant. No-one had any look of a fight in their eyes. Are they going through the motions, waiting for the team to be broken up ad get away somewhere else


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## guest100718 (Feb 12, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Really &#63027; You've still got Spurs to play, all be it at the bridge. After all it was Spurs that put the end to the Chelski run.

Yidio, Yidio &#62976;&#62976;&#62976;
		
Click to expand...

? weve played them twice now.


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## GG26 (Feb 12, 2017)

I've felt for several weeks now that Leicester are looking like relegation material (I'm a season ticket holder).  They started the season ok, absolutely dominated Burnley and Swansea at home like a top team, but gradually the confidence has just ebbed away and they now look the worst team in the league.

I've got my ticket for the home Champions League match against Sevilla and just hope that its not a dead rubber with a 3 goal plus deficit to make up after the first leg.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 12, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I've never understood this about football. Why do Burnley set up so different away for home? They are not alone, nearly all teams do it. I'd love to ask that question to a manager or pro at some point. Can't think of another sport that behaves in the same way.
		
Click to expand...

You can sit back away from home hope for a draw or maybe Nick a win.
But fans at home will demand you try and win so mindset is different.
it should not be but to lower teams staying up is paramount.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 12, 2017)

Fish said:



			Now Arsenal, I have no reason to be bitter, because your nothing, your no competition, your not title challengers and I will run down the 1st fairway naked at H4H's if you finish out of the top 4 &#128514;&#128514;
		
Click to expand...

I'm gutted I can't make H4H this year, can Richart or MikeH ensure there's video footage of this please :thup:


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## Tarkus1212 (Feb 12, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Nah then fish, re the Citeh tomorrow, hope we get the three point to narrow it to eight. But, if but would could and should. Chelsea have just City and Utd to play from the top six. Drop points there and both Manc teams are finding form. That could be down to 2 points.

Talksport was saying how Chelsea will walk it as the rest of there games are v teams outside of the top six and that's where they have got there most points. Today proved otherwise.

looking forward to the run in.
		
Click to expand...

Don't City still have to play ManU, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea?  Long way to go still, lots of points to be won and lost but on the whole I'm fairly happy with Chelsea's run in...... not counting any chickens just yet though.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 13, 2017)

I put a lot of effort into manipulating my fantasy team to get Gabriel Jesus in and then he gets himself injured. Not happy.

City are showing why they are a good team, how they attack, but also why they are not going to win the league this year. They are doing their best to give Bournemouth chances and a better team would have punished them.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 13, 2017)

Ah say Monday night football and one comment, has everyone had an early night.

three points thankyou very much.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 13, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Ah say Monday night football and one comment, has everyone had an early night.

three points thankyou very much.
		
Click to expand...

Solid performance, could've easily been 4-nil.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 13, 2017)

Bournemouth kept going though. Decent team and they look together enough to be okay, unlike some others at the bottom.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 13, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Bournemouth kept going though. Decent team and they look together enough to be okay, unlike some others at the bottom.
		
Click to expand...

I really do hope Palace go down. I've got nothing against them as a club, I just have a real dislike for "Big Sam"

Sorry ChrisD


----------



## sawtooth (Feb 13, 2017)

Tarkus1212 said:



			Don't City still have to play ManU, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea?  Long way to go still, lots of points to be won and lost but on the whole I'm fairly happy with Chelsea's run in...... not counting any chickens just yet though.
		
Click to expand...

According to Fish it's all over. Congrats to Chelsea.


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## Fish (Feb 13, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			According to Fish it's all over. Congrats to Chelsea.
		
Click to expand...

Why do you post such rubbish, please quote me where I have actually said that, your starting to pish me off now with your constant baiting and trolling and I can assure you I'm not one to have my buttons pushed!!


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 13, 2017)

Good solid performance by City and did what they needed. Can't see it making any difference long term this season though


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 13, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Bournemouth kept going though. Decent team and they look together enough to be okay, unlike some others at the bottom.
		
Click to expand...

Kept going, yes but pretty clueless. Particularly in defence.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 13, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Ah say Monday night football and one comment, has everyone had an early night.

three points thankyou very much.
		
Click to expand...

Was there a match on?


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Was there a match on? 

Click to expand...


Bit it one sided though.


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## Fish (Feb 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Was there a match on? 

Click to expand...

I'd have thought you'd have been watching with interest, after all, if 8 points is nothing and is more than easy to make up, isn't that the same amount your away from your noisy neighbours &#128563;

&#128521;


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## sawtooth (Feb 13, 2017)

Fish said:



			Why do you post such rubbish, *please quote me where I have actually said that*, your starting to pish me off now with your constant baiting and trolling and I can assure you I'm not one to have my buttons pushed!!
		
Click to expand...




Fish said:



			We won't have a tougher match than that (Burnley) and if you think we're capable of dropping the same amount of points (7) than Spurs have then your a bigger knob now than you were last week &#62978;&#62978;
		
Click to expand...

How can paraphrasing what you say be trolling? I'm doing nothing wrong. You're the one crossing the line with the threats and insults, very fortunate indeed.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 13, 2017)

Fish said:



			I'd have thought you'd have been watching with interest, after all, if 8 points is nothing and is more than easy to make up, isn't that the same amount your away from your noisy neighbours &#128563;

&#128521;
		
Click to expand...

I was mate, had all the comments ready hoping BMouth would win,  bit one sided though as Tashy said.

I'm hoping for any of 2-6 to collapse and let us punch more even more above our weight. :whoo:


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## Fish (Feb 13, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			How can paraphrasing what you say be trolling? I'm doing nothing wrong. You're the one crossing the line with the threats and insults, very fortunate indeed.
		
Click to expand...

Quote me where I've said "it's all over", and I don't make threats, there simply empty promises.


----------



## sawtooth (Feb 13, 2017)

sawtooth said:



*Spurs dropped 7 points in the last 3 games last year.
*
I suggest on this occasion you forget your bitterness against Arsenal and Liverpool and hope that City don't close the gap.

No easy games anywhere you look.
		
Click to expand...




Fish said:



			I have no bitterness towards Liverpool and don't believe I've displayed any, I have a bet running and I want to win it, it's not personal unlike your pathetic constant snipes and digs against Chelsea even willing teams on to beat us who are in direct competition to your own place, now that's bitterness and says more about you than me!

We won't have a tougher match than that *and if you think we're capable of dropping the same amount of points than Spurs have then your a bigger knob now than you were last week *&#62978;&#62978;

The Burnley goal was class, they worked tirelessly and deserved their point and the break for the FA Cup will do us good. 

Now Arsenal, I have no reason to be bitter, because your nothing, your no competition, your not title challengers and I will run down the 1st fairway naked at H4H's if you finish out of the top 4 &#62978;&#62978;
		
Click to expand...




Fish said:



			Quote me where I've said "it's all over", and I don't make threats, there simply empty promises.
		
Click to expand...


You're 8 points clear (10 yesterday) and you called me a knob for suggesting that Chelsea would drop even 7 points. I think its clear to everybody what you are saying. Chelsea cant be caught and therefore its all over.

I cant make it any clearer than that.


----------



## Fish (Feb 13, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			You're 8 points clear (10 yesterday) and you called me a knob for suggesting that Chelsea would drop even 7 points. I think its clear to everybody what you are saying. Chelsea cant be caught and therefore its all over.

I cant make it any clearer than that.
		
Click to expand...

It's as clear as the crap coming out of your mouth!  I note you again choose to remove certain sentences and paragraphs in that quote where I actually then say " is 8 points enough". 

You've made an idiot of yourself on this thread over the past months, you edit quotes and bait people with your bitterness, you disappear when it suits and throw in the odd pathetic post when it calms down to gain a reaction, well that's not healthy with me sunshine, it's one thing being blinkered and biased, everyone can deal with that but your just an idiot.


----------



## sawtooth (Feb 13, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Spurs dropped 7 points in the last 3 games last year.

I suggest on this occasion you forget your bitterness against Arsenal and Liverpool and hope that City don't close the gap.

No easy games anywhere you look.
		
Click to expand...




Fish said:



			I have no bitterness towards Liverpool and don't believe I've displayed any, I have a bet running and I want to win it, it's not personal unlike your pathetic constant snipes and digs against Chelsea even willing teams on to beat us who are in direct competition to your own place, now that's bitterness and says more about you than me!

We won't have a tougher match than that and if you think we're capable of dropping the same amount of points than Spurs have then your a bigger knob now than you were last week &#62978;&#62978;

The Burnley goal was class, they worked tirelessly and deserved their point and the break for the FA Cup will do us good. 

Now Arsenal, I have no reason to be bitter, because your nothing, your no competition, your not title challengers and I will run down the 1st fairway naked at H4H's if you finish out of the top 4 &#62978;&#62978;
		
Click to expand...




Fish said:



			It's as clear as the crap coming out of your mouth!  I note you again choose to remove certain sentences and paragraphs in that quote where I actually then say " is 8 points enough". 

You've made an idiot of yourself on this thread over the past months, you edit quotes and bait people with your bitterness, you disappear when it suits and throw in the odd pathetic post when it calms down to gain a reaction, *well that's not healthy with me sunshine*, it's one thing being blinkered and biased, everyone can deal with that but your just an idiot.
		
Click to expand...

I didn't edit any posts. Its very clear what you wrote, if later on you change your tune to 8 points that's neither here or there. Up until that thread you are quite clearly calling me a knob for suggesting that Chelsea would drop as many points as Spurs (which was 7).

So if you don't think you will drop more than 7 and you are already 8 points in the lead, do the maths. You are in other words crowning Chelsea as champions in February. 

So once again more insults and threats go unchecked.


----------



## Fish (Feb 14, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I didn't edit any posts. Its very clear what you wrote, if later on you change your tune to 8 points that's neither here or there. Up until that thread you are quite clearly calling me a knob for suggesting that Chelsea would drop as many points as Spurs (which was 7).

So if you don't think you will drop more than 7 and you are already 8 points in the lead, do the maths. You are in other words crowning Chelsea as champions in February. 

So once again more insults and threats go unchecked.
		
Click to expand...

I have no time for idiots on here, you take things out of context from when they were written and in reply to comments at that time, Spurs dropped 7 points in 3 games, what evidence is there in our current position that Chelsea are capable of dropping those points  with the kind of defensive we've displayed all season, none!

What's laughable with you is that even the Arsenal fans on here don't understand or agree with you on almost anything you say, speaks volumes to me. 

Your also like a child running to the teachers wanting to get others into trouble, some would say with some of your posts you come across as a grass, the lowest form of person in my book, grow up ffs!


----------



## user2010 (Feb 14, 2017)

Fish said:



			Why do you post such rubbish, please quote me where I have actually said that, your starting to pish me off now with your constant baiting and trolling and* I can assure you I'm not one to have my buttons pushed!!*

Click to expand...



Tough guy alert!:rofl:


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 14, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			Kept going, yes but pretty clueless. Particularly in defence.
		
Click to expand...

 
Fair point but if you look at the teams in real trouble they are falling apart. Bournemouth have pace up front and are playing for each other. I would be more worried if I was a Palace or Leicester fan at the moment. I can see Bournemouth getting a win, I'm struggling to see those two get one at the moment.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 14, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fair point but if you look at the teams in real trouble they are falling apart. Bournemouth have pace up front and are playing for each other. I would be more worried if I was a Palace or Leicester fan at the moment. I can see Bournemouth getting a win, I'm struggling to see those two get one at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

But recently they ha ve struggled to score and with that defence they always look likely to concede.

Eddie Howe=Roberto Martinez (discuss!)


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 14, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			But recently they ha ve struggled to score and with that defence they always look likely to concede.

Eddie Howe=Roberto Martinez (discuss!)
		
Click to expand...

Big difference for me, was Howe's willingness to accept something didn't work and change it, played 3 at the back last week at Goodison, didn't work, changed it back last night, still lost but not many teams stop City from scoring, Martinez stuck to his way regardless.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 14, 2017)

Ha ha. I hope not although now you come to mention it.............I guess we will find out in the coming weeks.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 14, 2017)

Fish said:



			Spurs dropped 7 points in 3 games, what evidence is there in our current position that Chelsea are capable of dropping those points  with the kind of defensive we've displayed all season, none!
		
Click to expand...

So now you're saying that you already have the league sewn up, yes? Because that is what you implied originally and sawtooth points out.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 14, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			So now you're saying that you already have the league sewn up, yes? Because that is what you implied originally and sawtooth points out.
		
Click to expand...

I think what has been said, is that Chelsea shouldn't lose the title at this stage. It's very similar to what sawtooth has said, but I don't think fish has actually said it's done and dusted and none should bother. 

Certainly not in the condescending way that sawtooth implied.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 14, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I think what has been said, is that Chelsea shouldn't lose the title at this stage. It's very similar to what sawtooth has said, but I don't think fish has actually said it's done and dusted and none should bother. 

Certainly not in the condescending way that sawtooth implied.
		
Click to expand...

I don't agree with a lot that sawtooth says but in this case he's only trying to determine what Fish meant, and Fish has instantly gone on the attack including a clear threat. It's only football, like.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 14, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			I don't agree with a lot that sawtooth says but in this case he's only trying to determine what Fish meant, and Fish has instantly gone on the attack including a clear threat. It's only football, like.
		
Click to expand...

Prerry sure I've seen sawtooth comment more than once in regards to fish comments. 

Seems to be each time the gap gap drops he uses it as a chance to make a dig. 

Tbf to him, he does get quite a lot of flak being so pro Wenger so probably likes the chance to score points back. Nowt wrong with that. 
I actually read fish "threat" and him simply saying that sawtooth was getting on his nerves and he wasn't someone who usually got wound up. Not that he was gonna do something about it. 
Of course I could be wrong, he could be winging his was to his house to beat him to within an inch of his life with a mouse!


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## richy (Feb 14, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I really do hope Palace go down. I've got nothing against them as a club, I just have a real dislike for "Big Sam"

Sorry ChrisD
		
Click to expand...

It's Pardew's fault really


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 14, 2017)

richy said:



			It's Pardew's fault really
		
Click to expand...

You mean that great manager that was hounded out of Newcastle and all of those Newcastle fans were to blame??


----------



## richy (Feb 14, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			You mean that great manager that was hounded out of Newcastle and all of those Newcastle fans were to blame??
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, all of those fickle fans that didn't know how lucky they were and only wanted rid of him because he was a cockney and nothing to do with the fact he was crap.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 14, 2017)

richy said:



			Yeah, all of those fickle fans that didn't know how lucky they were and only wanted rid of him because he was a cockney and nothing to do with the fact he was crap.
		
Click to expand...


I know what you mean, We've had it with Hodgson.


----------



## Region3 (Feb 14, 2017)

Nothing to do with the thread but I didn't want to start another football one.

Don't know who is telling the story but I thought this was brilliant! :rofl:


https://twitter.com/sporf/status/831505706666844160


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 14, 2017)

Region3 said:



			Nothing to do with the thread but I didn't want to start another football one.

Don't know who is telling the story but I thought this was brilliant! :rofl:


https://twitter.com/sporf/status/831505706666844160

Click to expand...

Kolo, kolo kolo, kolo kolo, kolo kolo Toure

YaYa, YaYa YaYa, YaYa YaYa, YaYa YaYa Toure.

quality.

I see Jesus has picked up a foot injury, not the worst injury Jesus has ever had. Flippin typical.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 14, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Kolo, kolo kolo, kolo kolo, kolo kolo Toure

YaYa, YaYa YaYa, YaYa YaYa, YaYa YaYa Toure.

quality.

I see Jesus has picked up a foot injury, not the worst injury Jesus has ever had. Flippin typical.
		
Click to expand...

I'm fuming. I contorted my fantasy team to fit him in. He gets injured, having gained no points. I now can't swap him until March so that's matches where I'm guaranteed no points. That was so selfish and inconsiderate of him &#128556;.

City must be fed up. If only they had a goal scoring replacement &#128513;.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 14, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm fuming. I contorted my fantasy team to fit him in. He gets injured, having gained no points. I now can't swap him until March so that's matches where I'm guaranteed no points. That was so selfish and inconsiderate of him &#63020;.

City must be fed up. If only they had a goal scoring replacement &#62977;.
		
Click to expand...

inehacho you will be on about you bad man.


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## Fish (Feb 14, 2017)

PSG sticking it to Barca &#128540;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 14, 2017)

Fish said:



			PSG sticking it to Barca &#128540;
		
Click to expand...

Big time 4-0 with 10 left to go :rofl:


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 14, 2017)

Ok, how many had that PSG result in their predictions. I think Barca are done and to be honest it could have been worse. Are they a side reaching the end of the line or was it just abject in a one off game. Already a point behind Real in La Liga and Real have two games in hand


----------



## Fish (Feb 15, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Ok, how many had that PSG result in their predictions. I think Barca are done and to be honest it could have been worse. Are they a side reaching the end of the line or was it just abject in a one off game. Already a point behind Real in La Liga and Real have two games in hand
		
Click to expand...

Could be just as many goals tonight when comparing current form.


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## Fish (Feb 15, 2017)

The barbers are going to get busy as players are found guilty for having 'unethical hair' 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38978373


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 15, 2017)

Fish, I had to read that a couple of times to believe it. Hey, you want to take the paycheck, suck it up. Ridiculous though.


----------



## richy (Feb 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I know what you mean, We've had it with Hodgson.
		
Click to expand...

It's amazing how fans of other clubs seem to know the ins and outs of your club and can tell you how you should go on as a supporter of your own team. 

There's a few on here actually.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 15, 2017)




----------



## USER1999 (Feb 15, 2017)

Fish said:



			The barbers are going to get busy as players are found guilty for having 'unethical hair' 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38978373

View attachment 21954

Click to expand...

It will make the world cup fun then. No silly haircuts allowed.


----------



## Fish (Feb 15, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			It will make the world cup fun then. No silly haircuts allowed.
		
Click to expand...

and what about all the Brazilian women we all like to drool over with their skimpy outfits in the crowd and partying before & after, will everyone be wearing flasher macs covering all their bare skin up :mmm:


----------



## One Planer (Feb 15, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



View attachment 21956


View attachment 21957

Click to expand...

What am I missing?


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 15, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			It will make the world cup fun then. No silly haircuts allowed.
		
Click to expand...

Qatar is not in the UAE.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 15, 2017)

Fish said:



			and what about all the Brazilian women we all like to drool over with their skimpy outfits in the crowd and partying before & after, will everyone be wearing flasher macs covering all their bare skin up :mmm:
		
Click to expand...

Don't forget the Swedes or the Dutch. You are right, the Qatar WC will be a major let down on that front. Disappointing


----------



## sawtooth (Feb 15, 2017)

One Planer said:



			What am I missing?
		
Click to expand...

On this thread? Plenty!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2017)

So Arsenal's biggest game of the season 

And they don't play their number 1 GK and also keep their main striker on the bench ?


----------



## jp5 (Feb 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So Arsenal's biggest game of the season 

And they don't play their number 1 GK and also keep their main striker on the bench ?
		
Click to expand...

Right to start Ospina, has played well in the 6 group games, and Cech not in great form of late.

Who's the main striker? Giroud?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So Arsenal's biggest game of the season 

And they don't play their number 1 GK and also keep their main striker on the bench ?
		
Click to expand...

Why does it matter unless you're trying to wind Arsenal fans up, you've stated time and time again how they will be knocked out in this round, so what's the difference playing Cech and Giroud?

Personally hope Arsenal win, would be good to see any English team do well in Europe.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 15, 2017)

I fancy Arsenal to get a result here tonight.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I fancy Arsenal to get a result here tonight.
		
Click to expand...

I can't see it. 
Score draw wouldn't be a bad result.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Why does it matter unless you're trying to wind Arsenal fans up, you've stated time and time again how they will be knocked out in this round, so what's the difference playing Cech and Giroud?

Personally hope Arsenal win, would be good to see any English team do well in Europe.
		
Click to expand...

Funny how the other Liverpool fans don't mind when it's one of their own obsessing over another team isn't it &#129300;


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## USER1999 (Feb 15, 2017)

Well that is plan A out of the window.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I fancy Arsenal to get a result here tonight.
		
Click to expand...

Will be hard work after that stunning finish ! Pick that out


----------



## fundy (Feb 15, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Well that is plan A out of the window.
		
Click to expand...

problem is we'll be sticking with it for 70 minutes lol


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 15, 2017)

That's it,they're out.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 15, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Funny how the other Liverpool fans don't mind when it's one of their own obsessing over another team isn't it &#129300;
		
Click to expand...

Is this aimed at me?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Is this aimed at me?
		
Click to expand...

Maybe &#128077;&#127995;


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Will be hard work after that stunning finish ! Pick that out
		
Click to expand...

Great goal,  shoddy defending though. You've got to be disciplined and compact in those areas in these types of games.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Funny how the other Liverpool fans don't mind when it's one of their own obsessing over another team isn't it &#129300;
		
Click to expand...

It's nothing to do with anyone else, just can't see any other reason for him to post that.


----------



## fundy (Feb 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Great goal,  shoddy defending though. *You've got to be disciplined and compact in those areas in these types of games*.
		
Click to expand...

yeah not really Kieron Gibbs that


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Great goal,  shoddy defending though. You've got to be disciplined and compact in those areas in these types of games.
		
Click to expand...

Crackin finish, but they stood off him!


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 15, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Maybe &#128077;&#127995;
		
Click to expand...

Come on internet headcase, it  either is or it isn't?


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 15, 2017)

fundy said:



			yeah not really Kieron Gibbs that
		
Click to expand...

Not seen it again, but it looked like Cocquelin to me.


----------



## richy (Feb 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			It's nothing to do with anyone else, just can't see any other reason for him to post that.
		
Click to expand...

It's his forum


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Great goal,  shoddy defending though. You've got to be disciplined and compact in those areas in these types of games.
		
Click to expand...

The problem is though Bayern have those two wingers who make the pitch as wide as possible leaving gaps and both very comfortable cutting inside into those gaps - bit like how Chelsea played under Maureen the first season. If Arsenal aren't careful this could be a lot tonight


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Come on internet headcase, it  either is or it isn't?
		
Click to expand...

Ok then Stuart yes it was. 

Oh & nice to see you remembered your login details just after Liverpool managed to get a win &#128514;


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 15, 2017)

fundy said:



			yeah not really Kieron Gibbs that
		
Click to expand...

He's pretty useless then if he can't stay switched on for 90 mins and close down


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## Stuart_C (Feb 15, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Ok then Stuart yes it was. 

Oh & nice to see you remembered your login details just after Liverpool managed to get a win &#128514;
		
Click to expand...


WTF are you on about?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 15, 2017)

I've got Chelsea Prem
Real CL 
Double. 

So Real are my CL team this season &#128556;


----------



## richy (Feb 15, 2017)

How on earth is that a penalty? :rofl:


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 15, 2017)

Terrible pen, great goal.


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## fundy (Feb 15, 2017)

richy said:



			How on earth is that a penalty? :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Lewandowski pretty clearly kicked Koscielny, how would it not be a penalty?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2017)

No keeper in the world would have stopped the Bayern opener. Sanchez got very lucky with that penalty but it's given them something to hold onto.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2017)

Brilliant reaction by Sanchez after a poor pen.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Brilliant reaction by Sanchez after a poor pen.
		
Click to expand...

Tidy finish too and easy to blaze that over.


----------



## richy (Feb 15, 2017)

fundy said:



			Lewandowski pretty clearly kicked Koscielny, how would it not be a penalty?
		
Click to expand...

He was already swinging his leg to clear the ball and the Arsenal play nipped in. Lewandowski hardly went looking to kick him.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Brilliant reaction by Sanchez after a poor pen.
		
Click to expand...

A poor pen only equated by a poor save.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2017)

A good first half for Arsenal and they created a couple of great chances to nick a lead


----------



## fundy (Feb 15, 2017)

richy said:



			He was already swinging his leg to clear the ball and the Arsenal play nipped in. Lewandowski hardly went looking to kick him.
		
Click to expand...

so someone nips in front and gets kicked negates it being a penalty? tosh imo


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 15, 2017)

Losing Kos is a blow.


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 15, 2017)

Mustafi did nothing there. Waste of space.


----------



## garyinderry (Feb 15, 2017)

Looks like ospina lost his footing. Damm


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## USER1999 (Feb 15, 2017)

End of.


----------



## fundy (Feb 15, 2017)

same result as last year incoming?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2017)

Two brilliant quick fire goals - superb header from Lewondonski then a great flick for a tidy finish from Thiago

Thiago is someone that has been talked about for a long time - must be time for that talk to turn into real top class performances 

And when you watch Lahm bomb up and down it's amazing to think he is retiring at the end of the season


----------



## fundy (Feb 15, 2017)

what a shock, xhaka booked with pretty much his first contribution of the game, slightly more than coquelin admittedly


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 15, 2017)

Way beyond sight now.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2017)

ffs Arsenal!


----------



## fundy (Feb 15, 2017)

just totally different class yet again Bayern, no real surprise to most of us


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## USER1999 (Feb 15, 2017)

Giroud will add nothing. Waste of a sub. Where was Welbeck from the off.


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## Fish (Feb 15, 2017)

Somehow I don't think that away goal will count for much now as I think Bayern could score anywhere they play and there finished tonight yet!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2017)

fundy said:



			just totally different class yet again Bayern, no real surprise to most of us
		
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Still disappointing though, would've been good for you's to get them back to the Emirates with something to play for.


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## fundy (Feb 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Still disappointing though, would've been good for you's to get them back to the Emirates with something to play for.
		
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wouldve been for sure, but sometimes you just have to be realistic, the really disappointing thing is the gap in class is growing not closing

on the plus side the bookies are paying me tonight


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2017)

fundy said:



			wouldve been for sure, but sometimes you just have to be realistic, the really disappointing thing is the gap in class is growing not closing

on the plus side the bookies are paying me tonight 

Click to expand...

Didn't look too bad after you levelled, you's had a good 10-15 minute spell that made their defence look dodgy.


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## Fish (Feb 15, 2017)

fundy said:



			just totally different class yet again Bayern, no real surprise to most of us
		
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They've won the last 15 matches and notched up 53 goals in them, that's some stats and you can see why.  Ancelotti is the man &#128077;


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 15, 2017)

fundy said:



			just totally different class yet again Bayern, no real surprise to most of us
		
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They'll take some beating over 2 legs. 
Robben seems to have been around forever & he's still class.


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## fundy (Feb 15, 2017)

just have so many good players, all seem to understand the structure instantly, not as if theyre missing Ribery or Mueller for example. if you get enough possession then they can be hurt but very rarely happens


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## Papas1982 (Feb 15, 2017)

What was the name of that film Bill  Murray was in again?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2017)

fundy said:



			just have so many good players, all seem to understand the structure instantly, not as if theyre missing Ribery or Mueller for example. if you get enough possession then they can be hurt but very rarely happens
		
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THe one thing that can hurt them is pace - especially when running at the CB's neither Hummels or Martinez are the quickest. A few time Sanchez for clear and had no support - I guess that's possibly where Walcott or Welbeck could have started instead of Iwobi ( who just doesn't seem a top player )


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## fundy (Feb 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			THe one thing that can hurt them is pace - especially when running at the CB's neither Hummels or Martinez are the quickest. A few time Sanchez for clear and had no support - I guess that's possibly where Walcott or Welbeck could have started instead of Iwobi ( who just doesn't seem a top player )
		
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youd have seen as much of walcott as you have of iwobi. bigger issue by far is the 2 central DMs theyve barely won a tackle between them all night and provides no platform at all for those in front of them. might be the last time we see sanchez for arsenal at this stage too which is disappointing


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## Old Skier (Feb 15, 2017)

And people keep insisting the Premier League is the best league in the world for why?


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## Slime (Feb 15, 2017)

Old Skier said:



			And people keep insisting the Premier League is the best league in the world for why?
		
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I'm not sure it's the best but it's definitely the most exciting.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2017)

fundy said:



			youd have seen as much of walcott as you have of iwobi. bigger issue by far is the 2 central DMs theyve barely won a tackle between them all night and provides no platform at all for those in front of them. might be the last time we see sanchez for arsenal at this stage too which is disappointing
		
Click to expand...

They have been outplayed in the middle by a 35 year old - Xabi is still an unbelievable player and provide the protection and platform for Thiago. Wouldn't want to guess how much he would cost if he was 25.

Suspect you maybe right about Sanchez - he looks dejected , constantly working his heart out and everytime he looks around for help a lot of times he looks lost on his own.


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## fundy (Feb 15, 2017)

and theres deja vu


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## Stuart_C (Feb 15, 2017)

Arsenal have been Mullered tonight.

I didn't honestly think this would happen.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2017)

Shocking 2nd half, totally diferent level


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## Dan2501 (Feb 15, 2017)

Same old Arsenal. We saw it against Chelsea, we've seen it tonight. When will the board finally give in?


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## fundy (Feb 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Arsenal have been Mullered tonight.

I didn't honestly think this would happen.
		
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id show you my betting account from tonight but id only be aftertiming lol


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 15, 2017)

Sanchez will be gone after this season


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## Stuart_C (Feb 15, 2017)

fundy said:



			id show you my betting account from tonight but id only be aftertiming lol
		
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Did you have 5-1?


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## Imurg (Feb 15, 2017)

You can almost see Barca coming back from 4 down, but Arsenal....?
More chance of Piers Morgan not making an arse of himself....


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## fundy (Feb 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Did you have 5-1?
		
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haha no im not that good bayern on the handicap, any other home win and Thiago anytime will do though


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 15, 2017)

Slime said:



			I'm not sure it's the best but it's definitely the most exciting.
		
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That's about right. 
No one says it's producing the best teams,but anyone can take points off anyone. 
Burnley v Chelsea is a prime example. 
Pep & Klopp are learning this.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2017)

Oh well, looks like our CL hopes rest on City or Leics.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 15, 2017)

fundy said:



			haha no im not that good bayern on the handicap, any other home win and Thiago anytime will do though
		
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Good punting sir:thup:


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 15, 2017)

Imurg said:



			You can almost see Barca coming back from 4 down, but Arsenal....?
More chance of Piers Morgan not making an arse of himself....
		
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Barca will need at least 6 as PSG will score at least 1 at Barca imo.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 15, 2017)

Is this CL the nail in the coffin of Ticky-Tappy football?


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## Old Skier (Feb 15, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			That's about right. 
No one says it's producing the best teams,but anyone can take points off anyone. 
Burnley v Chelsea is a prime example. 
Pep & Klopp are learning this.
		
Click to expand...

And your boy I suggest.


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## anotherdouble (Feb 15, 2017)

Don't worry Arsenal fans Sawtooth will be along soon to put a positive spin on things that all is well at the emirates


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## Stuart_C (Feb 15, 2017)

Old Skier said:



			And people keep insisting the Premier League is the best league in the world for why?
		
Click to expand...

Listening to talksport this morning and Merson was on as guest presenter, he said " the premier league is the best in the world by a million miles".  

When you've got ex pros like this clown working in the media spouting that rubbish then it's only a matter of time it becomes fact.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Listening to talksport this morning and Merson was on as guest presenter, he said " the premier league is the best in the world by a million miles".  

When you've got ex pros like this clown working in the media spouting that rubbish then it's only a matter of time it becomes fact.
		
Click to expand...


But at least in the EPL it's more than just one from 2 or tops 3. Last season showed that with bells on, and thats why it is the most exciting in Europe.


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## fundy (Feb 15, 2017)

picture just been posted that the Ox was the only Arsenal player to go the away end and applaud the travelling supporters, if thats true its an utter disgrace


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## Old Skier (Feb 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Listening to talksport this morning and Merson was on as guest presenter, he said " the premier league is the best in the world by a million miles".  

When you've got ex pros like this clown working in the media spouting that rubbish then it's only a matter of time it becomes fact.
		
Click to expand...

Theres a few armchair fans on here that think it as well.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2017)

Totally outplayed in the second half and opened up too easily. Another nail in the Wneger coffin?


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## garyinderry (Feb 15, 2017)

That was dire.  Simply no positives to take from that.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 15, 2017)

fundy said:



			picture just been posted that the Ox was the only Arsenal player to go the away end and applaud the travelling supporters, if thats true its an utter disgrace
		
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Radio commentary named 2, cant remember who the other player was.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 15, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			But at least in the EPL it's more than just one from 2 or tops 3. Last season showed that with bells on, and thats why it is the most exciting in Europe.
		
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Let's be honest, with the exception of last season there's only 3 teams that can actually Win it  in England. The rest just make the numbers up but sky will tell you different.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			That was dire.  Simply no positives to take from that.
		
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Even at 2-1 or perhaps 3-1 with the away go and the home leg there was always a chance. Not now


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## fundy (Feb 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Let's be honest, with the exception of last season there's only 3 teams that can actually Win it  in England. The rest just make the numbers up but sky will tell you different.
		
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if chelsea players hadnt downed tools over a very pretty physio we'd be heading for the same team winning it 3 years in a row


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Let's be honest, with the exception of last season there's only 3 teams that can actually Win it  in England. The rest just make the numbers up but sky will tell you different.
		
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Do you see a Leicester type team winning the Bundesliga or La Liga?


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## Stuart_C (Feb 15, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Do you see a Leicester type team winning the Bundesliga or La Liga?
		
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Probably not but it's only been done once and more likely never to be done again. 

The standard of football in the top leagues is far  better than ours imo.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 15, 2017)

fundy said:



			if chelsea players hadnt downed tools over a very pretty physio we'd be heading for the same team winning it 3 years in a row
		
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You're not wrong there.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Probably not but it's only been done once and more likely never to be done again. 

The standard of football in the top leagues is far  better than ours imo.
		
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Possibly yes. However I think the greater chance for almost every team  to grab that glory season is what every other European top league can only dream of. An extreme case would be the SPL.......it's a choice of Celtic or Celtic (accepting the standard of footy is probably worse)


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2017)

Arsene looks and sounds like a broken man, more than from just tonights game.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Arsene looks and sounds like a broken man, more than from just tonights game.
		
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What was his excuse?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Arsene looks and sounds like a broken man, more than from just tonights game.
		
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I agree. I think he's lost the fight now despite what he may say in public. I would like to see him see the season out, and irrespective of where Arsenal end up, simply walk away with his head high. Not sure he will


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I fancy Arsenal to get a result here tonight.
		
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I've been out tonight, heard the score and then clicked on this thread. This was one of the first posts since I'd checked it before. I hope you don't mind the chuckle I had &#128513;.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			What was his excuse?
		
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He had a moan about 1 or 2 instances, but admitted Bayern were just a better team, really really flat.


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## GG26 (Feb 15, 2017)

If Man City don't beat a decent Monaco side next Tuesday, our Champions League hopes rest with Leicester City.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 15, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I've been out tonight, heard the score and then clicked on this thread. This was one of the first posts since I'd checked it before. I hope you don't mind the chuckle I had &#128513;.
		
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Not a problem mate, it sums up my gambling  this season.

I honestly thought that Wenger would've finally realised there's a particular way of playing away in the CL as we've seen from many other teams in recent history.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2017)

GG26 said:



			If Man City don't beat a decent Monaco side next Tuesday, our Champions League hopes rest with Leicester City.
		
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City v Leics final hopefully


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## Stuart_C (Feb 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			He had a moan about 1 or 2 instances, but admitted Bayern were just a better team, really really flat.
		
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Bayern were superb tonight,  but I don't think the  Arsenal  players helped themselves either. Ospina looked like he was going to come for the ball for there 3rd then decided against it and it was a poor mistake from Oxlaid for the 5th


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 15, 2017)

From reports I'd heard I thought Bayern might be a bit wobbly, apparently not in the best form. To think arsenal could grab something was the daftest idea. Clearly something went very wrong.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Bayern were superb tonight,  but I don't think the  Arsenal  players helped themselves either. Ospina looked like he was going to come for the ball for there 3rd then decided against it and it was a poor mistake from Oxlaid for the 5th
		
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To be honest though the 15 minutes before half-time at 1-1 Bayern didn't look 4 goals better, Arsenal were shocking in the 2nd half, Wenger said they "mentally collapsed" :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Radio commentary named 2, cant remember who the other player was.
		
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Bellerin


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2017)

Get a look at Madrids 3rd from Casamiro.

Wow, just wow


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## Dan2501 (Feb 15, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Do you see a Leicester type team winning the Bundesliga or La Liga?
		
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Season's not over yet, but the main challengers for Bayern this year, and leaders for most of this season so far in the Bundesliga have been a very Leicester-like club in RB Leipzig. Not beyond the realms of possibility that they could go on and win it this year if they regain their early season form.


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## richy (Feb 16, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I fancy Arsenal to get a result here tonight.
		
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Stuart_C said:



			Listening to talksport this morning and Merson was on as guest presenter, he said " the premier league is the best in the world by a million miles".  

When you've got ex pros like this clown working in the media spouting that rubbish then it's only a matter of time it becomes fact.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah he's clueless


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2017)

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38989065


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## richy (Feb 16, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38989065



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Such a troll


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2017)

richy said:



			Such a troll
		
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It's OK Rich, he has different rules, he had a bitch when Tashy posted a joke about LPool.


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## richy (Feb 16, 2017)

Question for the Arsenal fans. It's been reported that Sanchez won't sign a new contract until he knows what Wenger is doing. Is he saying if Wenger signs one he won't? He seems pretty unhappy at present so surely he doesn't want to stay if Wenger does as it'll be more the same. 

Also, is he even that good? Barcelona didn't want him and the only other club in for him was Liverpool. Hardly a ringing endorsement.


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## Fish (Feb 16, 2017)

richy said:



			Question for the Arsenal fans. It's been reported that Sanchez won't sign a new contract until he knows what Wenger is doing. Is he saying if Wenger signs one he won't? He seems pretty unhappy at present so surely he doesn't want to stay if Wenger does as it'll be more the same. 

Also, is he even that good? Barcelona didn't want him and the only other club in for him was Liverpool. Hardly a ringing endorsement.
		
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The recent body language speaks volumes IMO.  I think he looks good in a poor side and stands out currently, I think he is a skilful player and has an eye for goal, he may well do better with more quality around him, but it could be a risk?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			The recent body language speaks volumes IMO.  I think he looks good in a poor side and stands out currently, I think he is a skilful player and has an eye for goal, he may well do better with more quality around him, but it could be a risk?
		
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Agreed the problems are more than Sanchez, the video from the end of the match is disgraceful, Ox and Bellerin walk towards their own fans, every other player walks straight off, Bellerin only goes 20yds clapping then turns around, Ox goes all the way to the fence on his own clapping the fans who made the journey, just what those fans must of been thinking? No fight, no spirit.


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## richy (Feb 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			The recent body language speaks volumes IMO.  I think he looks good in a poor side and stands out currently, I think he is a skilful player and has an eye for goal, he may well do better with more quality around him, but it could be a risk?
		
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Would a top side come in for him though? 

He isn't exactly carrying the team like some players can and do. Gerrard for example.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2017)

richy said:



			Would a top side come in for him though? 

He isn't exactly carrying the team like some players can and do. Gerrard for example.
		
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Sanchez is brilliant- for me he would fit into all the top sides , his stock went down a bit when at Barce because he didn't play week in week out

He isn't a central lone striker and would be perfect in a front three


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## richy (Feb 16, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sanchez is brilliant- for me he would fit into all the top sides , his stock went down a bit when at Barce because he didn't play week in week out

He isn't a central lone striker and would be perfect in a front three
		
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I get what you're saying but why isn't he taking this Arsenal side by the scruff of the neck and making things happen? I'm not saying they should be beating teams like Bayern but I think if he truly is that good he should be doing more than he is. 

Maybe he's just given up?


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## Fish (Feb 16, 2017)

richy said:



			Would a top side come in for him though? 

He isn't exactly carrying the team like some players can and do. Gerrard for example.
		
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I would say Giroud has carried Arsenal more this season than Sanchez when coming on and getting those essential goals when needed, which without would see Arsenal at least 3-4 places lower than they are now!  There are no natural partnerships in the team or squad, just a load of individuals who flit in and out of form!

I liken him to Lukaku, a standout striker/goal scorer for an above average team/club, maybe he is suited to Arsenal then :smirk:


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2017)

richy said:



			I get what you're saying but why isn't he taking this Arsenal side by the scruff of the neck and making things happen? I'm not saying they should be beating teams like Bayern but I think if he truly is that good he should be doing more than he is. 

Maybe he's just given up?
		
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I think your last line sums it up - hasn't given up or such but just think he has had enough.

Remember the game against Bournemouth when Giroud equalised with 3 mins to go Giroud too busy celebrating whilst Sanchez desperate to get thebgame going again to get a winner - the look on Sanchez face says it all


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## richy (Feb 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			I would say Giroud has carried Arsenal more this season than Sanchez when coming on and getting those essential goals when needed, which without would see Arsenal at least 3-4 places lower than they are now!  There are no natural partnerships in the team or squad, just a load of individuals who flit in and out of form!

I liken him to Lukaku, a standout striker/goal scorer for an above average team/club, maybe he is suited to Arsenal then :smirk:
		
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But at the beginning of the season people were saying this was the best Arsenal squad in years and possibly the best squad in the league. 

Maybe if Wenger had stepped down 1-2 seasons ago they'd be in a healthier position than they are now?


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## Hobbit (Feb 16, 2017)

Not a great result for Arsenal but where are the other British teams in Europe. 4th in the league and one win away from second. Yes they seem unambitious in the marketplace but I doubt the players are unambitious on the pitch. 

Credit to Bayern for doing a job on them, and maybe the whole board and manager need to have a look at themselves.

For those baiting Sawtooth I'm sure he'll be along soon to defend the messiah.


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## richy (Feb 16, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think your last line sums it up - hasn't given up or such but just think he has had enough.

Remember the game against Bournemouth when Giroud equalised with 3 mins to go Giroud too busy celebrating whilst Sanchez desperate to get thebgame going again to get a winner - the look on Sanchez face says it all
		
Click to expand...

Then surely if he's had enough of how things are at present he won't sign a new contract if Wenger does?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2017)

richy said:



			Then surely if he's had enough of how things are at present he won't sign a new contract if Wenger does?
		
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His current contract has 18 months to go, so if nothing happens in the summer, both he and the club will have some big decisions next Jan.


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## Fish (Feb 16, 2017)

I think Sanchez is more hungry and doesn't like the attitude of the other players, this might not be isolated to just match days but all through training and the whole Arsenal set-up (clubs lack of ambition).

He see's himself working hard and making every effort, but I don't think he see's that from his fellow teammates! Then he see's no strength in depth on the bench and no signings, I think he's had enough and the summer can't come quick enough for him. 

#GroundHogDay


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## richy (Feb 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think Sanchez is more hungry and doesn't like the attitude of the other players, this might not be isolated to just match days but all through training and the whole Arsenal set-up (clubs lack of ambition).

He see's himself working hard and making every effort, but I don't think he see's that from his fellow teammates! Then he see's no strength in depth on the bench and no signings, I think he's had enough and the summer can't come quick enough for him. 

#GroundHogDay
		
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This is bang on. His attitude is miles from the rest of the squad. I honestly think some of them are happy just ticking over.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Not a great result for Arsenal but where are the other British teams in Europe. 4th in the league and one win away from second. Yes they seem unambitious in the marketplace but I doubt the players are unambitious on the pitch. 

Credit to Bayern for doing a job on them, and maybe the whole board and manager need to have a look at themselves.

For those baiting Sawtooth I'm sure he'll be along soon to defend the messiah.
		
Click to expand...

As others have said they aren't bad players, just no natural leaders, it's ok Wenger sticking to his principles, but what message does it send out to players and fans when you don't put out your best 11 for your biggest game of the season so far.
Even Martin Keown who very rarely says anything negative about Wenger was very critical of him last night.


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## Fish (Feb 16, 2017)

richy said:



			This is bang on. His attitude is miles from the rest of the squad. I honestly think some of them are happy just ticking over.
		
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I think all the other players get home to their mansions, crack open a bottle bubbly, tell the wife they've had a hard day/night and quickly all is forgotten.  Sanchez gets back, kicks the cat, moans about his dinner, necks a couple of Stella's and sets upon the missus.  

He's passionate and it shows, I don't see that in any other Arsenal shirt.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think all the other players get home to their mansions, crack open a bottle bubbly, tell the wife they've had a hard day/night and quickly all is forgotten.  Sanchez gets back, kicks the cat, moans about his dinner, necks a couple of Stella's and sets upon the missus.  

He's passionate and it shows, I don't see that in any other Arsenal shirt.
		
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I agree. Sanchez is the only player who shows passion and spirit in the Arsenal camp. I do wonder how Klopp would use him....maybe an extra Â£2 on Arsenals release clause price would satisfy Wenger and the board


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## Slime (Feb 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think all the other players get home to their mansions, crack open a bottle bubbly, tell the wife they've had a hard day/night and quickly all is forgotten.  Sanchez gets back, kicks the cat, moans about his dinner, necks a couple of Stella's and sets upon the missus.  

*He's passionate and it shows, I don't see that in any other Arsenal shirt*.
		
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So why oh why is he not the captain?
The game finished last night with Gibbs wearing the armband, GIBBS!
That just about sums up Arsenal's woes.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 16, 2017)

Gibbs is someone I don't get. Frequently injured, not good enough for a top 6 team. A classic West Ham, C. Palace type player. He should have been rooted out and replaced a while ago. He was captain at one stage last night, blimey.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Feb 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think all the other players get home to their mansions, crack open a bottle bubbly, tell the wife they've had a hard day/night and quickly all is forgotten.  Sanchez gets back, kicks the cat, moans about his dinner, necks a couple of Stella's and sets upon the missus.  

He's passionate and it shows, I don't see that in any other Arsenal shirt.
		
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Where do you get this information from Fish? Not questioning it, just wondering if we're all possible of reading too much into 90 minutes on a tv.


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## Fish (Feb 16, 2017)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Where do you get this information from Fish? Not questioning it, just wondering if we're all possible of reading too much into 90 minutes on a tv.
		
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As in the first 2 words of my post, _I think_, because that's how it comes across to me, and not just based on last night's 90 minutes but whenever I see them play, there's only 1 player IMO putting his heart & soul into winning and expressing it openly, the others to me are shoulder shruggers!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2017)

Seems even the refs chase the money 

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38993655


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## Fish (Feb 16, 2017)

Mark Clattenburg is quitting his job as a Premier League official to become Saudi Arabia's new head of referees :mmm:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38993655


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 16, 2017)

Apparently the average salary of a prem ref is around Â£70k, going up to Â£100k if they do enough matches. He will get extra as a UEFA ref for individual matches. Let's say he gets Â£120k, taxed at 40%. Anyone doubt he is getting at least double that tax free, maybe treble or more. It's a short life as a ref and this could set him up. Can't blame him


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## Big_G (Feb 16, 2017)

I wonder if he'll get a tattoo of Â£Â£Â£Â£ to celebrate


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 16, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I agree. Sanchez is the only player who shows passion and spirit in the Arsenal camp. I do wonder how Klopp would use him....maybe an extra Â£2 on Arsenals release clause price would satisfy Wenger and the board

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bang on this we would love to have him.
He should have come to Liverpool .
He is just wot we need will do you a swap for Sturridge he will fit in with all the lazy players at Arsenal.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 16, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			bang on this we would love to have him.
He should have come to Liverpool .
He is just wot we need will do you a swap for Sturridge he will fit in with all the lazy players at Arsenal.
		
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I think you have me on the wrong side of the fence............


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## Fish (Feb 16, 2017)

Alan Smith says Arsene Wenger can secure his Arsenal legacy "in a heartbeat" by announcing now he will not sign a new deal. He goes on to say that Arsenal are in a rut and may need to go backwards to go forwards and he thinks that the fans will accept that, will you?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			Alan Smith says Arsene Wenger can secure his Arsenal legacy "in a heartbeat" by announcing now he will not sign a new deal. He goes on to say that Arsenal are in a rut and may need to go backwards to go forwards and he thinks that the fans will accept that, will you?
		
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I genuinely think you sum it up when you put groundhogday for them, a lot of teams in the PL would swap Arsenals last 10 years for their own, now they are realising that maybe 2-4 isn't good enough and standing still is not success.

Look at yourselves last season, the whole situation was embarrassing, but in hindsight if it means you's went backwards for 12 months to move forward then maybe that's no bad think for any club,  the problem comes if a club fails to move forwards or how long they accept going backwards.


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## fundy (Feb 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			Alan Smith says Arsene Wenger can secure his Arsenal legacy "in a heartbeat" by announcing now he will not sign a new deal. He goes on to say that Arsenal are in a rut and may need to go backwards to go forwards and he thinks that the fans will accept that, will you?
		
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not a lot of choice is there? Wenger goes at the end of the season you'd expect Sanchez and Ozil will both be off too. Whoever comes in is going to want to bring in their own staff and players and that doesnt happen overnight. Just depends how hard the landing is doesnt it, but its got to happen sooner rather than later. Big ask for whoever comes in to lose 2 or 3 of the biggest players and not go backwards during the period of adjustment


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## jp5 (Feb 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			a lot of teams in the PL would swap Arsenals last 10 years for their own
		
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What teams of similar financial standing would swap the last 10 years for Arsenal's?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2017)

jp5 said:



			What teams of similar financial standing would swap the last 10 years for Arsenal's?
		
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Didn't say all, just a lot, probably most except 5-6 imo.


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## Fish (Feb 16, 2017)

fundy said:



			not a lot of choice is there? Wenger goes at the end of the season you'd expect Sanchez and Ozil will both be off too. Whoever comes in is going to want to bring in their own staff and players and that doesnt happen overnight. Just depends how hard the landing is doesnt it, but its got to happen sooner rather than later. Big ask for whoever comes in to lose 2 or 3 of the biggest players and not go backwards during the period of adjustment
		
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Do you think if you look to drop out the top 4 Wenger will stay for another year as he'll attempt and want to finish more on a high, a bit like Fergie did but winged it very luckily it has to be said.

Maybe a new manager has a word with Sanchez, Ozil and a few others and gives them some assurances that aren't forthcoming now with Wenger and they in-turn give that new manager a chance, not such a fall then but could be very interesting if that new manager then got more out of the current team/squad, a bit like Conte is doing with us now.


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## Fish (Feb 16, 2017)

Championship clubs have agreed 'in principle' to use goal line technology from the start of next season.


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## jp5 (Feb 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Didn't say all, just a lot, probably most except 5-6 imo.
		
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But that's a pointless comparison isn't it?

Arsenal are one of the richest clubs in the world, of course most football teams would swap with them.

It's whether they've achieved relative to their potential that is in question.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			Do you think if you look to drop out the top 4 Wenger will stay for another year as he'll attempt and want to finish more on a high, a bit like Fergie did but winged it very luckily it has to be said.

Maybe a new manager has a word with Sanchez, Ozil and a few others and gives them some assurances that aren't forthcoming now with Wenger and they in-turn give that new manager a chance, not such a fall then but could be very interesting if that new manager then got more out of the current team/squad, a bit like Conte is doing with us now.
		
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It would not surprise me one single bit to see Wenger sign the extension that has been offered - and that for me will be the signal for Sanchez to leave but not so sure about Ozil. I don't think many other managers would put up with his lack of effort and the appearance of not wanting to work hard for anything. If Ozil isn't in the mood then the team are playing with 10 men - think it's clear to see why Madrid didn't mind letting him go without much of a fight.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2017)

jp5 said:



			But that's a pointless comparison isn't it?

Arsenal are one of the richest clubs in the world, of course most football teams would swap with them.

It's whether they've achieved relative to their potential that is in question.
		
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Which is my point, offer a team 10 top 4 finishes in a row and add the CL qual and some other silverware and they'd snap your hand off, it's all relative to the Club, is it failure? No, but it's not success either for a club of Arsenal's stature or Chelsea or City or Man Utd or possibly Liverpool.

If Wenger goes and the new guy comes in, how long would you give him to win the PL or how do you gauge if he is taking you forward?


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## fundy (Feb 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			Do you think if you look to drop out the top 4 Wenger will stay for another year as he'll attempt and want to finish more on a high, a bit like Fergie did but winged it very luckily it has to be said.

Maybe a new manager has a word with Sanchez, Ozil and a few others and gives them some assurances that aren't forthcoming now with Wenger and they in-turn give that new manager a chance, not such a fall then but could be very interesting if that new manager then got more out of the current team/squad, a bit like Conte is doing with us now.
		
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genuinely think hes done and goes whatever happens now (but ive though that before lol)

Ozil is reputed to have said he will stay if Wenger does otherwise hes likely to go and just think Sanchez is ready to move on. Depends who hypothetically comes in and even moreso what money is offered no doubt and then what new signings are made quickly. My expectation are at the pessimistic end though


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## jp5 (Feb 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			If Wenger goes and the new guy comes in, how long would you give him to win the PL or how do you gauge if he is taking you forward?
		
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I think you can tell - points wise Utd aren't any better off than they were under Moyes or LvG. But to me with Mourinho they look more like a Utd team, and heading in the right direction.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2017)

jp5 said:



			I think you can tell - points wise Utd aren't any better off than they were under Moyes or LvG. But to me with Mourinho they look more like a Utd team, and heading in the right direction.
		
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The problem you'll face is that unless you get the right man to attract new players and fight off competition from Chelsea or City etc then you may drop out of the top 6, 1 season maybe ok but if that becomes 3-4 seasons then Wenger and top 4 only may not of been that bad!


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## Rlburnside (Feb 16, 2017)

Good to see Spurs put out a strong team tonight.


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## Fish (Feb 16, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			Good to see Spurs put out a strong team tonight.
		
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There part of my acca so they'd better win &#129300;


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## Rlburnside (Feb 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			There part of my acca so they'd better win &#27138;
		
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Never thought I'd see the day you wanting Spurs to win:thup:


Not looking good so far , not the intestese in the games we played before the Liverpool game, need to improve in the second half.


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## Fish (Feb 16, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			Never thought I'd see the day you wanting Spurs to win:thup:


Not looking good so far , not the intestese in the games we played before the Liverpool game, need to improve in the second half.
		
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Dont think it's going to matter now, Fiorentina have scored so I hope you get stuffed now &#128514;&#128514;&#128540;


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## Rlburnside (Feb 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			Dont think it's going to matter now, Fiorentina have scored so I hope you get stuffed now &#62978;&#62978;&#63004;
		
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Back to normal then


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## Fish (Feb 16, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			Back to normal then
		
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I thought they'd win tbh, I know Gent can be a tricky team but as always it was going to be dependant on which Spurs turned up, unfortunately it wasn't the one I wanted!

Did you watch it, how did they play, they were at full strength weren't they?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 16, 2017)

Hopefully the bad one will turn up at the Cottage on Sunday but I doubt it. Away win


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## USER1999 (Feb 16, 2017)

Bring in the right manager, say Allegri, Tuchel, Hazenhuttl, bring in a proper director of football, say the guy from Leipzig,  bin off Primorac, Peyton, and a few other dead weights in the coaching staff, and we are talking. There is no need to step backwards. Plan for change, and do it properly. Who would not want to manage Arsenal. 8m a year, a half decent squad that just needs motivating, and a strategy.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			I thought they'd win tbh, I know Gent can be a tricky team but as always it was going to be dependant on which Spurs turned up, unfortunately it wasn't the one I wanted!

Did you watch it, how did they play, they were at full strength weren't they?
		
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Yea I watched it, but for a 10/15 min. spell at the start of the second half they were poor much like the Liverpool game, but for Erickson it was a strong side, our three subs that came on had little impact on the game.

Only 1-0 loss so still all to play for, unless the Wembley jinx comes again.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2017)

Decent win for Utd and hopefully Spurs can turn it around in the return leg.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 17, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Decent win for Utd and hopefully Spurs can turn it around in the return leg.
		
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Just seen Utd on telly Ibrahimovic is this clever play or just cheating?

free kick he never touched him.

penalty he dropped his hankie on his leg.

Zlatan is a black belt what in Origami.

not really having a go at him just because it's Utd Owen / Gerrard were very good at it but I don't like to see this , it's just cheating and am suprissed the ref gave the first seeing how close he was to it.


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## Fish (Feb 17, 2017)

Wenger live press conference, he should have been a politician as he doesn't say anything we don't already know, other than he'll make a decision on his future in March/April. 

After watching that I think he's staying, especially saying he will be a manager next season, but where?! Hopefully at  Arsenal &#128077;&#128378;&#128079;


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## Fish (Feb 17, 2017)

So how many seats should Everton's new stadium have? 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-new-stadium-what-should-12615699


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 17, 2017)

For me 50k. At that figure we could probably keep prices down, do a West Ham if required ie cheap prices to kids to fill seats. We aren't going to fill 60k so let's not have a stadium that rattles and lacks atmosphere. Keeping a good atmosphere is critical, as West Ham are discovering.


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## Fish (Feb 17, 2017)

Chelsea Under-18s have beaten Leicester City to reach the FA Youth Cup semi-finals for the EIGHTH year in a row :clap:

http://www.chelseafc.com/news/latest-news/2017/02/youth-cup-report--leicester-v-chelsea.html


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 17, 2017)

Fish - Great news. Next question, how many of the players from the 8 in a row have actually made it at A/ Chelsea, B/ elsewhere in the PL?

Not a pop, okay a bit of one, but Chelsea consistently fail to bring players through despite this success. What are they doing wrong, why can they not make the transition?


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## Fish (Feb 17, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fish - Great news. Next question, how many of the players from the 8 in a row have actually made it at A/ Chelsea, B/ elsewhere in the PL?

Not a pop, okay a bit of one, but Chelsea consistently fail to bring players through despite this success. What are they doing wrong, why can they not make the transition?
		
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This has been done to death, I can't be arsed with it...


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 17, 2017)

Fair enough but if you are going to post about the success of your youth team you have to accept this question as a follow up. The youth team is there to feed the 1st team or generate money for the club. It's a fair question. If not the 8 finals mean nothing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fish - Great news. Next question, how many of the players from the 8 in a row have actually made it at A/ Chelsea, B/ elsewhere in the PL?

Not a pop, okay a bit of one, but Chelsea consistently fail to bring players through despite this success. What are they doing wrong, why can they not make the transition?
		
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I think Chalobah is the one player who has a few Chelsea appareance but has regular appearances for clubs on loan for the last 6 years


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 17, 2017)

What's the score with Loftus Cheek? I know he was highly rated but I have not heard his name mentioned this season. Is he just collecting splinters?


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## Dan2501 (Feb 17, 2017)

Some seriously good players have come through Chelsea's academy. They're maybe not proven in the PL yet but certainly elsewhere in Europe. 

Andreas Christensen has been excellent in defence for Wolfsburg since he moved there on loan; 
Bertrand Traore is tearing it up in the Eredivise on loan
Tomas Kalas is a talented defender that has played key parts for Middlesborough and Fulham in the last 2 years
Jeffrey Bruma is a consistent part of Holland's national team and a first teamer for Ajax
Patrick Van Aanholt is a proven PL left-back, has performed very well for Sunderland and was just signed by Palace for Â£14m, 
Gokhan Tore is a Turkish international and currently on loan at West Ham
Ryan Bertrand is currently performing very well for Southampton
Fabio Borini is an established PL striker for Sunderland
Nathaniel Chalobah is seriously talented and could easily become a top PL midfielder
Tammy Abraham is ripping it up in the Championship this year

Other than John Terry none of them have broken through and made careers at Chelsea as of yet, but they've produced some top young talent at their academy and I'd be surprised if the likes of Christensen, Traore, Loftus-Cheek, Chalobah and Abraham don't feature for Chelsea in the very near future. Chalobah and Abraham are incredibly exciting talents, not just for Chelsea but for England as well.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What's the score with Loftus Cheek? I know he was highly rated but I have not heard his name mentioned this season. Is he just collecting splinters?
		
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Was rumoured to be on his way to Brighton on loan or sold but stayed as was supposed to get more chances due to Oscar leaving - but still mainly sitting on the bench.'


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 17, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fish - Great news. Next question, how many of the players from the 8 in a row have actually made it at A/ Chelsea, B/ elsewhere in the PL?

Not a pop, okay a bit of one, but Chelsea consistently fail to bring players through despite this success. What are they doing wrong, why can they not make the transition?
		
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Since they won it in 2009/10 21 Youth players graduated to the 1st team Squad of which 5 are still there, 
The 21 included people like Huth, Van Aarholt, Bertrand and Kakuta.

Some quality players in the list.

Your lucky I've got 4hrs to kill sat in the hospital :whoo:


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Some seriously good players have come through Chelsea's academy. They're maybe not proven in the PL yet but certainly elsewhere in Europe. 

Andreas Christensen has been excellent in defence for Wolfsburg since he moved there on loan; 
Bertrand Traore is tearing it up in the Eredivise on loan
Tomas Kalas is a talented defender that has played key parts for Middlesborough and Fulham in the last 2 years
Jeffrey Bruma is a consistent part of Holland's national team and a first teamer for Ajax
Patrick Van Aanholt is a proven PL left-back, has performed very well for Sunderland and was just signed by Palace for Â£14m, 
Gokhan Tore is a Turkish international and currently on loan at West Ham
Ryan Bertrand is currently performing very well for Southampton
Fabio Borini is an established PL striker for Sunderland
Nathaniel Chalobah is seriously talented and could easily become a top PL midfielder
Tammy Abraham is ripping it up in the Championship this year

Other than John Terry none of them have broken through and made careers at Chelsea as of yet, but they've produced some top young talent at their academy and I'd be surprised if the likes of Christensen, Traore, Loftus-Cheek, Chalobah and Abraham don't feature for Chelsea in the very near future. Chalobah and Abraham are incredibly exciting talents, not just for Chelsea but for England as well.
		
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Bit of poetic licence there is Regards "developing" the player

All of those players bar Abraham have come up from other clubs Academy's then for Chelsea to buy them and then it looks like send them out on loan to clubs all over Europe. 

Those players then continue their education at those clubs and will then be sold on so I don't think they are actually being developed by Chelsea as such - same with other clubs as well.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 17, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Since they won it in 2009/10 21 Youth players graduated to the 1st team Squad of which 5 are still there, 
The 21 included people like Huth, Van Aarholt, Bertrand and Kakuta.

Some quality players in the list.

Your lucky I've got 4hrs to kill sat in the hospital :whoo:
		
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I'll be expecting some feisty posts as the afternoon goes on. Sitting in a hospital does nothing for the spirits.

Some tenuous claims given out. As LP mentions, they are mostly farmed out. Anyway, Borini established PL striker for Sunderland. He can't get in the Sunderland team and they are going down.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 17, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'll be expecting some feisty posts as the afternoon goes on. Sitting in a hospital does nothing for the spirits.

Some tenuous claims given out. As LP mentions, they are mostly farmed out. Anyway, Borini established PL striker for Sunderland. He can't get in the Sunderland team and they are going down.
		
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How many other teams are any diferent though, given a choice would you develop Tony Hibbert or buy Azpilacueta.
We're good at bringing youth through and have won nowt for 21 years.
No PL Club except Man Utd in the very early days have nutured kids to 1st team players.
It's just an excuse to have a pop at Chelsea by some, Clubs spend half a billion to win nowt over 10 years!!


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 17, 2017)

I'm not arguing against the Chelsea approach. It works for them and whilst they are probably the worst offender many other big teams are not far behind. Teams like Everton and Southampton have genuinely brought players through but that is partly out of necessity not choice. I hope that doesn't change but we will see. I raised this on this occasion as Fish was cheering Chelsea's success. He is entitled to but it is pretty meaningless to me unless they actually do something with those players coming through. They are hollow victories if the players don't go on to become first team players.


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## Dan2501 (Feb 17, 2017)

Farmed out or not, they still go through Chelsea's academy at 14/15/16 and then get loaned out at 18/19 until they're deemed ready or not, and if not sold, normally for a big profit. Seems a good system to me.

As for Borini, yeah, Sunderland are going down, but not really true that he's not playing. Played 90 minutes 5 games in a row between Dec and Jan and has only not featured in 1 game in the last 9 gameweeks.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 17, 2017)

He might be on the pitch but fans may argue if he is playing or not :rofl:. 1 goal so far this year.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 17, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm not arguing against the Chelsea approach. It works for them and whilst they are probably the worst offender many other big teams are not far behind. Teams like Everton and Southampton have genuinely brought players through but that is partly out of necessity not choice. I hope that doesn't change but we will see. I raised this on this occasion as Fish was cheering Chelsea's success. He is entitled to but it is pretty meaningless to me unless they actually do something with those players coming through. They are hollow victories if the players don't go on to become first team players.
		
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We've done well as have other teams, but how many youth players have had years and years spent on them with no return, maybe the Chelsea way is a better financial model, better off getting some cash off a Borini type who didn't make the grade at Chelsea, but got them some return on investment.

Dan, Borini's no more than a journeyman.


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## Dan2501 (Feb 17, 2017)

Wasn't trying to say Borini's good, but he is an established premier league player.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 17, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Wasn't trying to say Borini's good, but he is an established premier league player.
		
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OK mate, loose description


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Farmed out or not, they still go through Chelsea's academy at 14/15/16 and then get loaned out at 18/19 until they're deemed ready or not, and if not sold, normally for a big profit. Seems a good system to me.

As for Borini, yeah, Sunderland are going down, but not really true that he's not playing. Played 90 minutes 5 games in a row between Dec and Jan and has only not featured in 1 game in the last 9 gameweeks.
		
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A lot of the players you mentioned aren't going through the Academy at those ages - they are being bought around the age 16/17/18 then go out on loan within months some of them hardly touching the Academy some one season.

Most get sold for a bit of profit so financially it works for them - pay big fees for kids and then look for a profit when they have played well on loan. 

De Bruyne an example - made the club Â£11mil and along with others have no doubt made the club a bit of money 

We have done the same when Rafa as manager - a lot of kids came in at the ages of 16/17 , we won a couple of youth cups the players went on loan and then got bought - small profit but we as a club didn't really develop them same with Chelsea didn't really develop the players. 

Looking at most of the top clubs not many actually develop all the way through from youth football - Arsenal grabbed loads of kids from Spain and France early 00's. City developed a good number of players but that stopped when the money arrived 

But looking at the Academies now a lot more seem to be English/British players within those academies and a lot seem to be through the ranks so I reckon over the next decade a few more will come through - Abraham is a perfect example for Chelsea , we have Woodburn and Alexender Arnold , Rashford at Man Utd. For the England fans it could be a good time in the next decade


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 17, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			OK mate, loose description 

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What he said ^^^^


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 18, 2017)

I'd sworn off this thread because of the amount of cobblers posted but I can't let Burnley's gesture with the mascots go without comment, fantastic to see, both the gesture & the fans reaction. :thup:


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## fundy (Feb 18, 2017)

Fish said:



			This has been done to death, I can't be arsed with it...
		
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but its ok for you to do to death your views on Arsenal, Wenger etc?


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## Papas1982 (Feb 18, 2017)

Blue in Munich said:



			I'd sworn off this thread because of the amount of cobblers posted but I can't let Burnley's gesture with the mascots go without comment, fantastic to see, both the gesture & the fans reaction. :thup:
		
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Just had to google what they'd done. Apparently athletico Madrid did it earlier this year. Nice gesture. Hope they're all season ticket holders too.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2017)

Blue in Munich said:



			I'd sworn off this thread because of the amount of cobblers posted but I can't let Burnley's gesture with the mascots go without comment, fantastic to see, both the gesture & the fans reaction. :thup:
		
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Just seen what they did, brilliant


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## fundy (Feb 18, 2017)

have to feel for the loyal fan of 50 years being forced to walk out with Joey Barton mind!


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## Fish (Feb 18, 2017)

fundy said:



			but its ok for you to do to death your views on Arsenal, Wenger etc?
		
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Yes, because I was/am only commentating on the current situation and matches and in a constructive manner.


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## fundy (Feb 18, 2017)

Joey Barton just an utter disgrace, complete embarrassment to himself


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## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2017)

Just seen it and if that is not followed up on then football is really in a mess. He is a complete and utter prat. Don't know what is worse, the blatant stamp which was not seen or the pretend smack in the face.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2017)

How's that not a foul for Lincoln or sending off for Barton with hand to face or the shove.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 18, 2017)

fundy said:



			have to feel for the loyal fan of 50 years being forced to walk out with Joey Barton mind!
		
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fundy said:



			Joey Barton just an utter disgrace, complete embarrassment to himself
		
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Tashyboy said:



			Just seen it and if that is not followed up on then football is really in a mess. He is a complete and utter prat. Don't know what is worse, the blatant stamp which was not seen or the pretend smack in the face.
		
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Fair points well presented.



Tashyboy said:



			How's that not a foul for Lincoln or sending off for Barton with hand to face or the shove.
		
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Indeed.  Barton is an odious scrote of the first order.


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## Slime (Feb 18, 2017)

Barton is a disgrace and an embarrassment to Burnley.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 18, 2017)

Barton is scum,always as been & always will be.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2017)

Wow !!! Come on the mighty Lincoln


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## Slime (Feb 18, 2017)

:whoo::whoo:
Super Imps!!


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## ger147 (Feb 18, 2017)

Burnley get exactly what Barton deserved. Congratulations to Lincoln.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2017)

A brilliant just brilliant


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 18, 2017)

ger147 said:



			Burnley get exactly what Barton deserved. Congratulations to Lincoln.
		
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Spot on!! :thup:


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## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2017)

Well everyone I have spoken to since the Lincoln win is buzzing which begs the question. When was the last time a neutral team gave everyone such a lift?


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## Fish (Feb 18, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Well everyone I have spoken to since the Lincoln win is buzzing which begs the question. When was the last time a neutral team gave everyone such a lift?
		
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The next one will be Huddersfield &#128077;&#128514;&#128526;


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## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2017)

Fish said:



			The next one will be Huddersfield &#62541;&#62978;&#62990;
		
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Oi you might not of had an infraction for a year but your close to getting me one. Bad man.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 18, 2017)

http://www.thesportbible.com/footba...ting-in-trouble-against-lincoln-city-20170218

He should be made to watch this & explain what happened. 
Pathetic.


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## fundy (Feb 18, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



http://www.thesportbible.com/footba...ting-in-trouble-against-lincoln-city-20170218

He should be made to watch this & explain what happened. 
Pathetic.
		
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Joseph Barton &#8207;@Joey7Barton  54m54 minutes ago
More
 Wasn't trying to get the Big Man sent off. It was my job to front screen and disrupt him. Was trying to get back in front of him. (1)

Joseph Barton &#8207;@Joey7Barton  52m52 minutes ago
More
 Tried to duck under his arm and he moved it back and hit me on the head. Contact is part of the game, no problem with that. (2)

Joseph Barton &#8207;@Joey7Barton  52m52 minutes ago
More
 Unlike their player saying he was kicked on the floor and also the one who jumped and held his face as if he'd been struck. (3)


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 18, 2017)

fundy said:



			Joseph Barton &#8207;@Joey7Barton  54m54 minutes ago
More
 Wasn't trying to get the Big Man sent off. It was my job to front screen and disrupt him. Was trying to get back in front of him. (1)

Joseph Barton &#8207;@Joey7Barton  52m52 minutes ago
More
 Tried to duck under his arm and he moved it back and hit me on the head. Contact is part of the game, no problem with that. (2)

Joseph Barton &#8207;@Joey7Barton  52m52 minutes ago
More
 Unlike their player saying he was kicked on the floor and also the one who jumped and held his face as if he'd been struck. (3)
		
Click to expand...

He's full of &#128169;.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2017)

fundy said:



			Joseph Barton &#8207;@Joey7Barton  54m54 minutes ago
More
 Wasn't trying to get the Big Man sent off. It was my job to front screen and disrupt him. Was trying to get back in front of him. (1)

Joseph Barton &#8207;@Joey7Barton  52m52 minutes ago
More
 Tried to duck under his arm and he moved it back and hit me on the head. Contact is part of the game, no problem with that. (2)

Joseph Barton &#8207;@Joey7Barton  52m52 minutes ago
More
 Unlike their player saying he was kicked on the floor and also the one who jumped and held his face as if he'd been struck. (3)
		
Click to expand...


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## Fish (Feb 18, 2017)

10 man Millwall add more woes to Leicester, not sure how many changes they made but they still should have beaten a 10 man league 1 side!

Just need to get past Wolves now and draw Millwall next &#128540;&#128540;&#128540;


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## MegaSteve (Feb 18, 2017)

Here's hoping for another upset today...

Pretty please...


----------



## Fish (Feb 18, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			Here's hoping for another upset today...

Pretty please...
		
Click to expand...

Why, so if leaves us just the league to concentrate on?


----------



## MegaSteve (Feb 18, 2017)

Fish said:



			Why, so if leaves us just the league to concentrate on?
		
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I work with a room full of Blues...

Could do with a few days of peace and quiet...

Even with Mourinho gone they're still too full of themselves for my liking...


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 18, 2017)

How come Barton is allowed to play after his betting was exposed?


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## Stuart_C (Feb 18, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How come Barton is allowed to play after his betting was exposed?
		
Click to expand...

Probably while the  investigation is being done he's allowed to play.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 18, 2017)

Hopefully the FA will take retrospective action but I doubt it. I don't know how Barton keeps getting contracts as he's nothing but trouble and whenever I've seen him on TV, he's never done anything that stands out or influences a game. Usually a booking waiting to happen


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## Fish (Feb 18, 2017)

Now bring on Millwall &#128540;&#128540;&#128540;


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## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2017)

Did none of you watch the big final today?


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## pbrown7582 (Feb 18, 2017)

Fish said:



			Now bring on Millwall &#128540;&#128540;&#128540;
		
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Away so you can wait patiently in the stands while they goad you from the pitch like today with the Leicester fans


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## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2017)

Fish said:



			Now bring on Millwall &#63004;&#63004;&#63004;
		
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Ha noticed you didnt say lincoln


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## Hobbit (Feb 19, 2017)

Fish said:



			Now bring on Millwall &#63004;&#63004;&#63004;
		
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Thought you'd fancy a few beers in the Pig Iron...


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## MegaSteve (Feb 19, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Hopefully the FA will take retrospective action but I doubt it. I don't know how Barton keeps getting contracts as he's nothing but trouble and whenever I've seen him on TV, he's never done anything that stands out or influences a game. Usually a booking waiting to happen
		
Click to expand...

He's a total knob... But, when he applies himself is a capable player...


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## MegaSteve (Feb 19, 2017)

Rumours Barca are interested in the spuds best asset...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 19, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			Rumours Barca are interested in the spuds best asset...
		
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That's Arsene Wenger at the moment isn't it :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 19, 2017)




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## Pin-seeker (Feb 19, 2017)

Millwall have beaten more Premier League sides in 2017 than Liverpool FC, Crystal Palace, Bournemouth and Leicester combined. 
&#128556;


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 19, 2017)

And so the Wembley dream is over again. Well done to Spurs and to the manager for putting a decent side out. Very clear that we didn't really turn up which is the annoying thing about being a Fulham fan, knowing which side will be on the pitch each week. The gulf between where we are and a top PL side is clear and should we scrape a play-off place and then get lucky, we'll be hopelessly outclassed without some serious investment (which I don't think will happen). I hope we learn from our attitude today and buck up enough to get our own back on Bristol City on Tuesday after losing 4-0 at home earlier this season


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## Slime (Feb 19, 2017)

Not vintage stuff from United, but a potential banana skin avoided & into the next round.
Zlatan ................... not a bad bit of business getting him for Â£0!
Signing of the season?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 19, 2017)

Slime said:



			Not vintage stuff from United, but a potential banana skin avoided & into the next round.
Zlatan ................... not a bad bit of business getting him for Â£0!
Signing of the season?
		
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No sorry that'd be Kante ðŸ˜œ.
I'll give you Ibra as 2nd best. 

Not a bad pass from Pogba to set up Ibra.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 19, 2017)

Ibra still capable of turning a game and good finish for the second. Some ball from Pogba too. Jose seems to have taught them how to dig out wins


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 19, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Millwall have beaten more Premier League sides in 2017 than Liverpool FC, Crystal Palace, Bournemouth and Leicester combined. 
&#128556;
		
Click to expand...

True....... but so far they have only played against the other clubs reserve and development teams.


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## Tarkus1212 (Feb 19, 2017)

[h=3]FA Cup quarter-final draw[/h]


Chelsea v Man Utd
Middlesbrough v Huddersfield or Man City
Tottenham v Millwall 
Sutton United or Arsenal v Lincoln City


Ties to be played on the weekend of the 10-13 March.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 19, 2017)

Tarkus1212 said:



			[h=3]FA Cup quarter-final draw[/h]


Chelsea v Man Utd
Middlesbrough v Huddersfield or Man City
Tottenham v Millwall 
Sutton United or Arsenal v Lincoln City


Ties to be played on the weekend of the 10-13 March.
		
Click to expand...

Chelsea, City, Spurs and Arsenal for me.


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## Slime (Feb 19, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



*No sorry that'd be Kante &#63004;.
I'll give you Ibra as 2nd best. *

Not a bad pass from Pogba to set up Ibra.
		
Click to expand...

We'll see soon enough when United visit you lot in the next round!
Not the draw I was looking for.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 19, 2017)

The met police must be crying. Utd at Chelsea and Spurs v Milwall. At least it wasn't Chelsea v Milwall.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 19, 2017)

I think they'll still have their hands full. Some good ties though with Lincoln v Sutton the pick :thup:


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 19, 2017)

Who'd have thought it...2 non league teams playing for a place in the FA Cup semi finals


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## Fish (Feb 20, 2017)

So what do the Arsenal fans think of the team selection for tonight?

It's considerably weaker than I expected tbh. 

Ospina; Gabriel, Mustafi, Holding, Monreal; Elneny, Xhaka; Lucas, Reine-Adelaide, Iwobi; Walcott.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 20, 2017)

Fish said:



			So what do the Arsenal fans think of the team selection for tonight?

It's considerably weaker than I expected tbh. 

Ospina; Gabriel, Mustafi, Holding, Monreal; Elneny, Xhaka; Lucas, Reine-Adelaide, Iwobi; Walcott.
		
Click to expand...

Surprised Walcott is being risked so soon after injury but surely any side Arsenal put our *should* be good enough to win shouldn't it?


----------



## MegaSteve (Feb 20, 2017)

Fish said:



			So what do the Arsenal fans think of the team selection for tonight?

It's considerably weaker than I expected tbh. 

Ospina; Gabriel, Mustafi, Holding, Monreal; Elneny, Xhaka; Lucas, Reine-Adelaide, Iwobi; Walcott.
		
Click to expand...

Was hoping he'd play Alexis from the start... Not sure why but I think he's just perfect for a match like this...


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2017)

Gary linekar asks shearer about his days at Southampton when he played with the ? Twenty stone reserve keeper for Sutton. Shearer says " I followed my dream to the premiership, he followed his dream to the burger van".
Quality.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 20, 2017)

C'mon Sutton


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2017)

Arsenal by 4-5 goals


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2017)

Er the Sutton left back does it say Amawankah on the back of his shirt.


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## Fish (Feb 20, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Er the Sutton left back does it say Amawankah on the back of his shirt.
		
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&#128514;&#128514;I spotted that also, well I think that's what I read &#128514;&#128514;


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 20, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Arsenal by 4-5 goals
		
Click to expand...

Sadly I think you're right but we can hope. Interesting if Sutton score first to see the Arsenal reaction


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## fundy (Feb 20, 2017)

Fish said:



			So what do the Arsenal fans think of the team selection for tonight?

It's considerably weaker than I expected tbh. 

Ospina; Gabriel, Mustafi, Holding, Monreal; Elneny, Xhaka; Lucas, Reine-Adelaide, Iwobi; Walcott.
		
Click to expand...

put yer rod away lol

teams fine for me, 4 of what you would call first choice side and rest made up of main squad members, few options on the bench if needed. like all current arsenal sides, central midfield looks awful (thats a squad issue/injuries)


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 20, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Er the Sutton left back does it say Amawankah on the back of his shirt.
		
Click to expand...

Okay, I'll fess up. I checked the teamsheet for this. I so wished it was true. Close but not quite &#128513;


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## Beezerk (Feb 20, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Er the Sutton left back does it say Amawankah on the back of his shirt.
		
Click to expand...

Looks like he's a handful as well.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 20, 2017)

That tackle from Collins is probably the reason Wenger never risked his top players just brute force on the follow through.


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## Beezerk (Feb 20, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			That tackle from Collins is probably the reason Wenger never risked his top players just brute force on the follow through.
		
Click to expand...

Red card for me, had it been a Prem game the commentators wouldn't be as flippant as they are.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 20, 2017)

Beezerk said:



			Red card for me, had it been a Prem game the commentators wouldn't be as flippant as they are.
		
Click to expand...

Really? Got there first and clearly won the ball. Arsenal player caught by the follow through. I thought it was robust but fair (as did the ref)


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## Beezerk (Feb 20, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Really? Got there first and clearly won the ball. Arsenal player caught by the follow through. I thought it was robust but fair (as did the ref)
		
Click to expand...

Won the ball then quite obviously (even on first view at real time speed) he raised his foot and went for the man afterwards. Could have snapped his leg in half.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 20, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Really? Got there first and clearly won the ball. Arsenal player caught by the follow through. I thought it was robust but fair (as did the ref)
		
Click to expand...




Beezerk said:



			Won the ball then quite obviously (even on first view at real time speed) he raised his foot and went for the man afterwards. Could have snapped his leg in half.
		
Click to expand...

Because the ref thought it was fair it has to be does it?

Follow through over the top albeit I love a good challenge.

If it was on Sanchez I think a lot more would have happened and would have been said.

Maybe not a red but certainly an amber


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2017)

Think they need a new cross bar. That one could be a bit bent now.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2017)

ah see the sub keeper has started on his pastie.:rofl:


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## fundy (Feb 20, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			ah see the sub keeper has started on his pastie.:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

he was in the supporters bar at half time!


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2017)

fundy said:



			he was in the supporters bar at half time!
		
Click to expand...

As late as half time &#128513;


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 20, 2017)

Only 2 goals?


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## Stuart_C (Feb 20, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Only 2 goals?
		
Click to expand...

Enough to win the game though.


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## Fish (Feb 20, 2017)

Sutton gave an excellent account of themselves, they had some good chances that just lacked a little bit of quality but overall they should be truly proud of their achievement getting so far and battling it out tonight right to the very end.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 20, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Enough to win the game though.
		
Click to expand...


Not disputing that at all


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## Jensen (Feb 20, 2017)

Even as a Spurs fan, I'll give credit to Arsenal for their professional performance.
Very difficult on that plastic.
Even Arsene Wenger was complimentary towards Sutton, which nearly made me fall off my chair &#128516;&#128516;

Yidio, Yidio &#128077;&#128077;


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2017)

FA cup tv schedule
Chelsea v Man Utd on BT
Arsenal v Lincoln on BBC
Spurs v Millwall on Crimewatch
Oh and Liverpool on the History channel.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 21, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			FA cup tv schedule
Chelsea v Man Utd on BT
Arsenal v Lincoln on BBC
Spurs v Millwall on Crimewatch
Oh and Liverpool on the History channel.
		
Click to expand...

And City on Al Jazeera?


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## pbrown7582 (Feb 21, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			And City on Al Jazeera?
		
Click to expand...

well they cant be on history they haven't got anything ask Kevin.......


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## Tashyboy (Feb 21, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			And City on Al Jazeera?
		
Click to expand...

BT tonite&#128521;


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 21, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			BT tonite&#62985;
		
Click to expand...

So more people in Strangeways than will be watching it on tv then


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## Tashyboy (Feb 21, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			So more people in Strangeways than will be watching it on tv then

Click to expand...

Probably, coronation st will be finished by then. Have a few beers and spliffs with there pals watching the game.&#128563;


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## Dan2501 (Feb 21, 2017)

Wayne Shaw is being investigated by the Gambling Commission for eating a pie.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 21, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Probably, coronation st will be finished by then. Have a few beers and spliffs with there pals watching the game.&#63027;
		
Click to expand...

What about the men?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 21, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Wayne Shaw is being investigated by the Gambling Commission for eating a pie.
		
Click to expand...


More fool the betting company. Actually they got publicity out of it so maybe they are happy as well. Reading what he said, the subs were all on, he knew the offer was on and he thought a few fans would get their ticket money back in winnings. He got nothing out of it. Idiot betting company.


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## fundy (Feb 21, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Wayne Shaw is being investigated by the Gambling Commission for eating a pie.
		
Click to expand...

whilst they are happy to allow people to lay dead horses on betfair and people bet on some of the current cricket coming out of asia that even uri geller couldnt bend as much


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 21, 2017)

Looking at all the empty seats at City, anyone have any idea why their fans don't seem to be attracted to European games like other clubs fans


----------



## Fish (Feb 21, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Looking at all the empty seats at City, anyone have any idea why their fans don't seem to be attracted to European games like other clubs fans
		
Click to expand...

Ticket Costs, Manure fans can afford theirs as southern wages are much higher than those in Manchester&#128540;


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 21, 2017)

City keeper wants off!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 21, 2017)

That's one of did Aquero go looking for a pen, for me, great decision by the Ref, just wish more were strong enough to book the player looking for the pen.


----------



## Beezerk (Feb 21, 2017)

My god, are Man City playing their 3rd string defence or summat? Shocking.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 21, 2017)

Beezerk said:



			My god, are Man City playing their 3rd string defence or summat? Shocking.
		
Click to expand...

At Barca and Bayern Pep could get away with anyone in defence such was the quaility of their midfield and front line. They had so much attacking possession teams were terrified to go forward. 

City cant retain the ball in attack. Seem to pass sideways and backwards across back line. Then lose ball up front and are way too open.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 21, 2017)

Beezerk said:



			My god, are Man City playing their 3rd string defence or summat? Shocking.
		
Click to expand...

Got to give a lot of credit to Monaco - Falcao looks the finisher he was before he went to Man Utd. 

Monaco superb going forward 

The penalty decision is certainly a talking point. The GK clearly made contact so is it a dive ? But then is it a penalty ?


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 21, 2017)

Did anyone see it coming?City trying to play out of defence.

I said to the wife they will get caught out,if I can see it how can a manager on stupid money with so much experience not see it.
And if he can see it because he would be stupid not to why the hell didn't he stop it.

City and Pep got what they deserved and imo plain stupidity caused it.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 21, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Did anyone see it coming?City trying to play out of defence.

I said to the wife they will get caught out,if I can see it how can a manager on stupid money with so much experience not see it.
And if he can see it because he would be stupid not to why the hell didn't he stop it.

City and Pep got what they deserved and imo plain stupidity caused it.
		
Click to expand...

Hes always said he will play it his way. Takes the responsibility and blame off the players. 

He is too pig headed to accept that a plan b can be required on occasion. Whilst it's clear that the prem doesn't necessarily have the best teams in the world it is the most competitive and city won't dominate inferior competition like Bayern n Barca could do. therefor they can't perfect his style and develop for it to work in Europe.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 21, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Did anyone see it coming?City trying to play out of defence.

I said to the wife they will get caught out,if I can see it how can a manager on stupid money with so much experience not see it.
And if he can see it because he would be stupid not to why the hell didn't he stop it.

City and Pep got what they deserved and imo plain stupidity caused it.
		
Click to expand...

Apparently Pep is the bees knees.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 21, 2017)

Yep that's not a dive and should have been a penalty - poor from the ref 

Can certainly see more goals coming


----------



## Beezerk (Feb 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The penalty decision is certainly a talking point. The GK clearly made contact so is it a dive ? But then is it a penalty ?
		
Click to expand...

Just seen the replay,  Aguero made contact with the keeper (on purpose) not the other way around. Aguero was diving half an hour before the keeper slid in.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 21, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Hes always said he will play it his way. Takes the responsibility and blame off the players. 

He is too pig headed to accept that a plan b can be required on occasion. Whilst it's clear that the prem doesn't necessarily have the best teams in the world it is the most competitive and city won't dominate inferior competition like Bayern n Barca could do. therefor they can't perfect his style and develop for it to work in Europe.
		
Click to expand...

Pep will get there - i expect he didn't think he would just walk into a winning team - will strengthen again in the summer especially at the back. The Prem as you say is different and certain styles take a bit longer to adjust. The more defensive minded coaches adjust quicker


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 21, 2017)

Some finish that from Falcao


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 21, 2017)

Great game, maybe not for Tashy &#128514;


----------



## shewy (Feb 21, 2017)

How much did Stones cost? City defence like a pub team


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Pep will get there - i expect he didn't think he would just walk into a winning team - will strengthen again in the summer especially at the back. The Prem as you say is different and *certain styles* take a bit longer to adjust. The more defensive minded coaches adjust quicker
		
Click to expand...

That's key for me, how many teams win the league or have done playing his style, Liverpool this year and under BR played it and unfortunately it lends itself to the odd slip up, arsenal have probably played the prettiest football in last decade, but still fails. 

I imagine he will win the league of he stays for 3/4 years, but I don't expect him to build a team anywhere near as good a season Barca or Bayern. Both already had great players he tweaked. He's spent how much on stones Andy he seems to have all that's required except the six inches between his ears. 
Already had to sack a keeper who was good enough in la Lisa also. 
In in English football there is always a need for a big hoof into the stands, he's refusal to accept that will Be his downfall imo.


----------



## shewy (Feb 21, 2017)

Mental game


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 21, 2017)

Brilliant game - this is what football should be

The referee is trying to make himself the starring role but thankfully the players are taking the limelight away from him - must be 10 plus players booked but not one bad foul


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## pendodave (Feb 21, 2017)

To be (partially) fair to the ref, at least half the cards have been for pulling\tripping players when they've gone past the man. Not dangerous, but they need to be cautioned to ensure every single break isn't cynically nipped in the bud.

As for the other 5..

Anyway, mental but brilliant game.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 21, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Great game, maybe not for Tashy &#128514;
		
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Nice of you to join in with our enjoyment :rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Nice of you to join in with our enjoyment :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

You do realise that you're talking to yourself? &#128563;


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Nice of you to join in with our enjoyment :rofl:
		
Click to expand...


He's back. I couldn't comment coz I was sat at the game. What with me being an upstanding member of this forum ave not posted your earlier post &#128513;
What a game, one of those games you will remember forever. Hope the neutrals enjoyed it. Sat up in the gods in tier three of the new stand and the views and leg room were just amazing.

The ref once more was just dire.

Said this before and will say it again, if City take there chances they will batter teams but with that defence OMG. Apart from Stones, I would get rid of the lot. The Fact Ferandinho played at left back, shows Pep knows there not up to it. There is just no pace.

Disagree with the comments re Pep could get away with it at La liga. He had Puyol, Piquet and quality left and fight backs. Far better than are at City.

looking forward to me Christmas present, away trip City v Monaco.

Blueeeeeeeeee Moooooooooon.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			He's back. I couldn't comment coz I was sat at the game. What with me being an upstanding member of this forum ave not posted your earlier post &#128513;
What a game, one of those games you will remember forever. Hope the neutrals enjoyed it. Sat up in the gods in tier three of the new stand and the views and leg room were just amazing.

The ref once more was just dire.

Said this before and will say it again, if City take there chances they will batter teams but with that defence OMG. Apart from Stones, I would get rid of the lot. The Fact Ferandinho played at left back, shows Pep knows there not up to it. There is just no pace.

Disagree with the comments re Pep could get away with it at La liga. He had Puyol, Piquet and quality left and fight backs. Far better than are at City.

looking forward to me Christmas present, away trip City v Monaco.

Blueeeeeeeeee Moooooooooon.
		
Click to expand...

No way were you enjoying it when they went 2-1 up! Great for the neutral, I still think Stones needs to play along side a more experienced centre half.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 22, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			He's back. I couldn't comment coz I was sat at the game. What with me being an upstanding member of this forum ave not posted your earlier post &#62977;
What a game, one of those games you will remember forever. Hope the neutrals enjoyed it. Sat up in the gods in tier three of the new stand and the views and leg room were just amazing.

The ref once more was just dire.

Said this before and will say it again, if City take there chances they will batter teams but with that defence OMG. Apart from Stones, I would get rid of the lot. The Fact Ferandinho played at left back, shows Pep knows there not up to it. There is just no pace.

Disagree with the comments re Pep could get away with it at La liga. He had Puyol, Piquet and quality left and fight backs. Far better than are at City.

looking forward to me Christmas present, away trip City v Monaco.

Blueeeeeeeeee Moooooooooon.
		
Click to expand...

Think the comments should on defence were by me. I accept that Barca had better defenders than have now. But for me the point was more the midfield and attack. 

How many any of them can retain the ball, yaya maybe and silva. The rest still get the ball and head direct for goal. Meaning greater turnover of possession and facing more counters. It's great to watch, but the style is nowhere near that of Bayern and Barca as currently the players aren't of the same quality (for that style). 

Re the defence, stone needs to learn how to defend. Atm he looks like Sideshow bob and Chelsea first time. 

Time me will tell, but I don't think you'll dominate like peps previous teams due mainly to the nature of the prem and the unsuitability of the style he wants to play.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			No way were you enjoying it when they went 2-1 up! Great for the neutral, I still think Stones needs to play along side a more experienced centre half.
		
Click to expand...

Agree with stones needing help Ottamendi is not good enough always on his arse.
Great game to watch for the neutral end to end.
Bit naive from Monaco once they were up 3/2 they should have sat back a bit more and denied City some space.
With 3 away goals that would have been tough.
Great spirit from City though.
What a goal from Aguarro but you should not be able to volley a ball in the box someone has to head this clear.
Schoolboy defending from both sides but that is what made it a great game.
as Paul said the fans did not look happy while losing, but no fans are!
looking forward to the second half but if city don't defend better it could still go any way.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 22, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Agree with stones needing help Ottamendi is not good enough always on his arse.
Great game to watch for the neutral end to end.
Bit naive from Monaco once they were up 3/2 they should have sat back a bit more and denied City some space.
With 3 away goals that would have been tough.
Great spirit from City though.
What a goal from Aguarro but you should not be able to volley a ball in the box someone has to head this clear.
Schoolboy defending from both sides but that is what made it a great game.
as Paul said the fans did not look happy while losing, but no fans are!
looking forward to the second half but if city don't defend better it could still go any way.
		
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Totally agree with all of that. Imagine City's attack going against city's defence. With the pace of sane and sterling etc they would just leave otamendi, Kolarov and Zabaleta standing. Watched stones last night and unfortunately the same as when we played Everton at our place earlier this season got out muscled ( Lukaku) My grief is this, V Everton stones goes for row z, comes off Baines and the forward is in. Why is Otamendi not covering. Same last night when Stones is on his ass. Where is Otamendi. Free kick over the top, where is Otamendi. Stones has covered for Otamendi this year, but at times it has not been returned. Pep will have seen that. But I thought at times last night Monacos wind backs were superb.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Totally agree with all of that. Imagine City's attack going against city's defence. With the pace of sane and sterling etc they would just leave otamendi, Kolarov and Zabaleta standing. Watched stones last night and unfortunately the same as when we played Everton at our place earlier this season got out muscled ( Lukaku) My grief is this, V Everton stones goes for row z, comes off Baines and the forward is in. Why is Otamendi not covering. Same last night when Stones is on his ass. Where is Otamendi. Free kick over the top, where is Otamendi. Stones has covered for Otamendi this year, but at times it has not been returned. Pep will have seen that. But I thought at times last night Monacos wind backs were superb.
		
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Pep has to sort it out sooner rather than later, opposition know Stones's weakness, they've known for the last 2 seasons, put him under pressure when he's on the ball, Baines knew to close him down, the better the player along side Stones, the better Stones is.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Pep has to sort it out sooner rather than later, opposition know Stones's weakness, they've known for the last 2 seasons, put him under pressure when he's on the ball, Baines knew to close him down, the better the player along side Stones, the better Stones is.
		
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I think plan A was to play him with Kompany, that quickly went tits up, Otamendi was plan B, that went tits up even quicker. plan C was playing him with Kolarov.. by this point we had run out of tits all together. It not just a case of trying play around or fitting it around Stones. Coz without him you are looking at Otamendi and Kolarov and that ain't good for anyone's blood pressure. How we won last night playing with an iffy keeper and one make shift left back, and  Otamendi. Al never know. I keep saying it but City have a big centre half in the elite dev squad that should be in this squad. Gonna be an interesting end of season run with no Gundohan, Jesus and Kompany.

our season will be defined by four games. When we play Monaco away, it is followed by Liverpool at home, Arsenal away then Chelsa away.

Lubbly jubbly.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Pep has to sort it out sooner rather than later, opposition know Stones's weakness, they've known for the last 2 seasons, put him under pressure when he's on the ball, Baines knew to close him down, the better the player along side Stones, the better Stones is.
		
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I think Stones is a very good player but the high press from Monaco leaves him limited outlets .
He can't launch it because City have no height up front to win the ball.
The midfield needs to work harder to give him options but the pressing game makes this difficult.
This is a very similar problem we have at Liverpool, but like us City don't seem to have a plan B.
But if you can score five goals it's happy days.
Pep and Klopp will be looking for some quality defenders but there's not that many around these days.
The art of defending seems to be getting lost.!


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 22, 2017)

I saw City on the box a couple of weeks ago, can't remember who against. First half the other team did a high press and City were all over the place. Early second half the keeper and defenders started chipping over the press to players just inside their own half, near the half way line. 9 times out of 10 they held the posession as the players were all skilled enough to trap the ball. The oppo then had to decide whether to high press and get by-passed or step back. Either way City had an option, which they used well to stretch the other team. It seems as though they didn't use this plan B approach last night for some reason. A high press is simple enough to by-pass if you have a skilled midfield. I would have thought City would have the players to deal with that rather than get constantly caught at the back playing tippy tappy.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think Stones is a very good player but the high press from Monaco leaves him limited outlets .
He can't launch it because City have no height up front to win the ball.
The midfield needs to work harder to give him options but the pressing game makes this difficult.
This is a very similar problem we have at Liverpool, but like us City don't seem to have a plan B.
But if you can score five goals it's happy days.
Pep and Klopp will be looking for some quality defenders but there's not that many around these days.
The art of defending seems to be getting lost.!
		
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John Stones imo has the ability to become one of Englands best ever centre halfs, he's tall, fast, very skillful and young, his first season with us, Jags was having one of his best seasons, Martinez had us playing a different way and we caught teams out, season 2, Jags and Baines were injured, Funes was new and teams clicked on to how Martinez wanted us to play and the defence were under pressure. 

If teams start playing out from the back then defending starts with the forwards, if the defence is under pressure the keeper has to be prepared to miss them out, if the defenders have the ball they've got to be prepared to miss the midfield out etc etc.

As stated loads of times Stones needs to use Row Z or maybe have a bit more belief and step up to be the main central defender. It's unfair to put it all on him as the team are making mistakes, it's just his prove more costly.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			John Stones imo has the ability to become one of Englands best ever centre halfs, he's tall, fast, very skillful and young, his first season with us, Jags was having one of his best seasons, Martinez had us playing a different way and we caught teams out, season 2, Jags and Baines were injured, Funes was new and teams clicked on to how Martinez wanted us to play and the defence were under pressure. 

If teams start playing out from the back then defending starts with the forwards, if the defence is under pressure the keeper has to be prepared to miss them out, if the defenders have the ball they've got to be prepared to miss the midfield out etc etc.

As stated loads of times Stones needs to use Row Z or maybe have a bit more belief and step up to be the main central defender. It's unfair to put it all on him as the team are making mistakes, it's just his prove more costly.
		
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I wasn't trying to blame Stones.!
I think city's defence is shocking except stones as I stated the team need to give him more options.
Hitting row Z when under pressure is fine ,I was thinking more when the goalie rolls the ball to him the wide men need to show more for him and give him options.
Pep as everybody knows likes to play from the back but sometimes you can catch teams out being a bit more direct.
This is where Dzeco was a good backup 
Its ok conceding three goals if you score five but that's not good if your strikers are having a lean time.
But it was a good game.
as you know the further back you go the more mistakes are punished just ask Monacos keeper shocker.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			I wasn't trying to blame Stones.!
I think city's defence is shocking except stones as I stated the team need to give him more options.
Hitting row Z when under pressure is fine ,I was thinking more when the goalie rolls the ball to him the wide men need to show more for him and give him options.
Pep as everybody knows likes to play from the back but sometimes you can catch teams out being a bit more direct.
This is where Dzeco was a good backup 
Its ok conceding three goals if you score five but that's not good if your strikers are having a lean time.
But it was a good game.
as you know the further back you go the more mistakes are punished just ask Monacos keeper shocker.
		
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I never said you were trying to blame Stones!

I thought we were simply discussing him and last night.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 22, 2017)

I'm sure Pep will splash the cash and sort the defence with wholesale changes come the summer. I think Stones seems to be suffering a lack of confidence and his decision making has been affected


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 22, 2017)

Buy either the Juve or Atletico Madrid defence, in full. Probably the best two out there. Assuming that doesn't happen break the bank for Bonucci. Unless he's had a mare this season he looked world class in the euro's. Put him alongside Stones and see what happens.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2017)

This is Sevilla V Schmeichel at the moment.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2017)

Could be a precious away goal, Schmeichel the MotM.


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## GG26 (Feb 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Could be a precious away goal, Schmeichel the MotM.
		
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Agreed.  Wasn't looking forward to going to the home leg three down and would have taken 2-1 before kick off.


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## Fish (Feb 23, 2017)

Massive away goal, just 1-nil at home would be enough, certainly well within Leicesters grasp to go forward.


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## Old Skier (Feb 23, 2017)

Fish said:



			Massive away goal, just 1-nil at home would be enough, certainly well within Leicesters grasp to go forward.
		
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Late night or early morning


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## Fish (Feb 23, 2017)

Old Skier said:



			Late night or early morning 

Click to expand...

That's not early for me & Smiffy, were both up and posting from 3am at times &#128563;


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## fundy (Feb 23, 2017)

mailonline claiming Leicester have sacked Ranieri, not sure I believe them but if its true its utterly ridiculous and sums up everything wrong with modern football!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4253994/Claudio-Ranieri-sacked-Leicester.html


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 23, 2017)

Just seen that Rodney Marsh has asked the same thing on Twitter. Shocking way to treat their most successful ever manager if it is true.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 23, 2017)

Ranieri is deffo history &#128543;


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## Papas1982 (Feb 23, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Just seen that Rodney Marsh has asked the same thing on Twitter. Shocking way to treat their most successful ever manager if it is true.
		
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Its business though. 

If they genuienly feel he's lost the dressing room then they have to change. What he did will never be forgotten. But as a club, the money in the prem far outweighs sentiment. 

Puel has us (saints) in a final this weekend but many still aren't sure about him.


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## fundy (Feb 23, 2017)

Mourinho sacked the year after winning it, Ranieri now gone the year after winning it, maybe Wenger has it right after all lol

LCFC youre an embarrassment, hope you go down and stay down


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## fundy (Feb 23, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Its business though. 

If they genuienly feel he's lost the dressing room then they have to change. What he did will never be forgotten. But as a club, the money in the prem far outweighs sentiment. 

Puel has us (saints) in a final this weekend but many still aren't sure about him.
		
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comparing apples with rolex watches Papas, winning the prem as 5000/1 shots against reaching the mickey mouse cup final?


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 23, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Its business though. 

If they genuienly feel he's lost the dressing room then they have to change. What he did will never be forgotten. But as a club, the money in the prem far outweighs sentiment. 

Puel has us (saints) in a final this weekend but many still aren't sure about him.
		
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Lost the dressing room? A bunch of overpaid journeymen who have done very little previously in their careers but have now been set up for life thanks in a large part to what Ranieri did for them last season. 

I agree with Fundy. I hope they go down and then freefall through the divisions.


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## PhilTheFragger (Feb 23, 2017)

The players that were firing in goals at a whim last year, simply havnt performed, vardy in particular, ok he has been injured, but

They have always been a bit leaky at the back, but last season always managed to score more, noticeable absence of goals this year, dont feel its the ex managers fault, but possible semtiments meant that they held onto some players last season, who should really have moved on.

If Vardy is still in the England squad, its laughable


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## Fish (Feb 23, 2017)

The man is still a legend at the Bridge, Well for me anyway as he was unfairly treated there also. He should turn his back on English football, he's too nice a person to be treated like this. 

Shame on LCFC, I hope they go down now &#128545;


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## Junior (Feb 23, 2017)

Feel for the guy...... What makes me laugh is where the heck do they think they will get a better manager ????  There is not a massive line of managers waiting to jump at the chance to go to Leicester.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2017)

Feel for Ranieri, what a disgraceful way to treat him.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2017)

Awful tackle and correct decision, Alli you silly man!


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## fundy (Feb 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Awful tackle and correct decision, Alli you silly man!
		
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hideous tackle, deserves a long ban for that, ld prove costly too when he big sides are looking in summer


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## Tiger man (Feb 23, 2017)

Bye Leicester, can't believe I did not put money on them going down as I called it before the season started with my brother and he laughed, been reminding him all season and it looks more likely than ever now.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 23, 2017)

fundy said:



			comparing apples with rolex watches Papas, winning the prem as 5000/1 shots against reaching the mickey mouse cup final?
		
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Im not comparing the achievements at all!

simply using it as an example that we have fans who want him out whilst we are sitting pretty and in a final.  Btw, it's only Mickey Mouse for big clubs. Most other fans would happily win any cup on offer each season. 

His achievements last year is historic, but this season he appears to have lost the dressing room. Only ever one outcome in that scenario. 

Ask s the Leeds fans if they'd rather be mid table in the prem instead of the good nights they had in CL all those years ago. Premier league football is key for fans, and pr I ers hip money is key for the board. 

It's a simple case of the board doing what they feel is best for business.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 23, 2017)

Ranieri - 296 days after winning the Premier League - SACKED

Wenger - 4688 days since he last won a Premier League - NEW CONTRACT

Thoughts? &#129300;&#128514;


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## Papas1982 (Feb 23, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Lost the dressing room? A bunch of overpaid journeymen who have done very little previously in their careers but have now been set up for life thanks in a large part to what Ranieri did for them last season. 

I agree with Fundy. I hope they go down and then freefall through the divisions.
		
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Ranieri's previous job was a laughable attempt to manage Greece. He's pretty much as journeymen as the rest of them. 

As to being set set up for life because of him. That's not true at all. They have a career to talk about in part because of him, but they still performed they get credit too. But all of them are premiership players. I'm sure their bank accounts were handsome enough prior to his arrival.


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## fundy (Feb 23, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Ranieri - 296 days after winning the Premier League - SACKED

Wenger - 4688 days since he last won a Premier League - NEW CONTRACT

Thoughts? &#129300;&#128514;
		
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that this is about ranieri and leicester, no need to make it about wenger as everything seems to want to be on this thread.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 23, 2017)

Tiger man said:



			Bye Leicester, can't believe I did not put money on them going down as I called it before the season started with my brother and he laughed, been reminding him all season and it looks more likely than ever now.
		
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I have them at 33/1. Intersteingly this morning my cash out was at 95, it's now Â£98. So has done me a slight favour apparently.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 23, 2017)

Disgusting way to treat Ranieri after all he done at Leicester.

I hope they appoint Mr Hodgson to take them down.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 23, 2017)

Ranieri is a classic example of being a victim of your own success. 
Last season was just crazy.
but if you forget that they actually won the title last season and look at the table now,that is exactly where you'd expect Leicester to be. 

Hope they don't pick up another point all season.


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## richy (Feb 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Disgusting way to treat Ranieri after all he done at Leicester.

I hope they appoint Mr Hodgson to take them down.
		
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Or Pardew


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## pokerjoke (Feb 23, 2017)

fundy said:



			Mourinho sacked the year after winning it, Ranieri now gone the year after winning it, maybe Wenger has it right after all lol

LCFC youre an embarrassment, hope you go down and stay down
		
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Agree with this and also couldn't care less what happens to them now its just shocking.

The players have got to big for their boots and must take a lot of blame.

Who will save them?

Also a good chance still in the C/L.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 23, 2017)

fundy said:



			that this is about ranieri and leicester, no need to make it about wenger as everything seems to want to be on this thread.
		
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It was said with tongue in cheek tbh mate.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Awful tackle and correct decision, Alli you silly man!
		
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That's an understatement he deserves more than he will get it was a career ending challenge and a totally over the top reaction to not getting a free kick.

Let himself down his club down and his teammates down.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Disgusting way to treat Ranieri after all he done at Leicester.

I hope they appoint Mr Hodgson to take them down.
		
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So bitter towards Roy,its in the past La &#128077;&#127995;


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## Tashyboy (Feb 23, 2017)

Anyway, the spuds are 1-1 and Mr Alli is sent off for one of the worst tackles you will see this year. How the guys leg never broke al never know.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 23, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Anyway, the spuds are 1-1 and Mr Alli is sent off for one of the worst tackles you will see this year. How the guys leg never broke al never know.
		
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Just seen it,shocking.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2017)

The timing of the Ranieri sacking is crazy, still in the CL and some massive PL games coming up, starting with LPool on monday, no chance for a new guy to change much or buy anyone, they must think the "new manager" syndrome is going to kick in straight away!


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## Stuart_C (Feb 23, 2017)

Very poor challenge from Alli.

The Wembley curse continues.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2017)

Oooh game on!


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 23, 2017)

Fish said:



*The man is still a legend at the Bridge,* Well for me anyway as he was unfairly treated there also. He should turn his back on English football, he's too nice a person to be treated like this. 

Shame on LCFC, I hope they go down now &#63009;
		
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He is for any right thinking Chelsea fan, constructed a great squad that made Mourinho's life a lot easier, always conducted himself well, was the same in person as he was on TV and as you say, deserved better.  Good luck wherever you end up Claudio and thanks for the memories, both with us and for a great season last year.


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## SaintHacker (Feb 23, 2017)

Id love to have him at Saints


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## Papas1982 (Feb 23, 2017)

SaintHacker said:



			Id love to have him at Saints
		
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Wouldnt personally. One real,highlight on his cv. 

Not sire lightning will strike twice. 

Agree in regards to the comments that he seems a nice bloke and he did set weehels in motion at Chelsea.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2017)

Game over


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## Fish (Feb 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Game over 

Click to expand...

I bet there really looking forward to Stoke & Millwall now, and without Ali &#128540;

Arsenal, Liverpool & Man Utd must all smell blood and are ready to pounce &#128540;&#128540;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2017)

Fish said:



			I bet there really looking forward to Stoke & Millwall now, and without Ali &#128540;

Arsenal, Liverpool & Man Utd must all smell blood and are ready to pounce &#128540;&#128540;
		
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Do bans from Europe follow into leagues?


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## Papas1982 (Feb 23, 2017)

Fish said:



			I bet there really looking forward to Stoke & Millwall now, and without Ali &#63004;

Arsenal, Liverpool & Man Utd must all smell blood and are ready to pounce &#63004;&#63004;
		
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Is alli banned in league as well as Europe?


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## Stuart_C (Feb 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Do bans from Europe follow into leagues?
		
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No, fishy's had a mare here :rofl:


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## Fish (Feb 23, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Is alli banned in league as well as Europe?
		
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If he isn't he should be, just saw it, terrible career threatening assault.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			No, fishy's had a mare here :rofl:
		
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Cheers, wasn't sure &#128515;


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## Tiger man (Feb 23, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I have them at 33/1. Intersteingly this morning my cash out was at 95, it's now Â£98. So has done me a slight favour apparently.
		
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Hold your nerve!


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## Papas1982 (Feb 23, 2017)

Tiger man said:



			Hold your nerve!
		
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With their upcoming fixtures I've no intentions yet.


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## GG26 (Feb 23, 2017)

Goodbye Claudio a true gent.

You gave us memories to last a lifetime, pity some of the players let you down


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## Rlburnside (Feb 23, 2017)

Wembley curse strikes again, terrible tackle from Alli needs to learn to curb his temperament, let the side down badly.

We played well with ten men and gave it a go in the second half but poor over the two games against a average side.

Great turnout from the fans again.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 23, 2017)

Just caught up with the news 

Shocking tackle from Alli - no excuse 

And Leicester sacking Raneri shows all that is wrong in the sport


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## Region3 (Feb 23, 2017)

Couldn't believe it when the little banner popped up on my phone saying Ranieri had been sacked. Seems shocking at first glance but we don't know what's gone on behind the scenes.

Gent that he is, I don't think he'll spill even if he's been unfairly treated.

As for Vardy, I mentioned to my lad last night that it's like a different player to last year. He told me that Vardy has a better goals to chances ratio this season than he did last season!
I think the fact that the defence is struggling so much more this season gives them less time to play in the other half and create chances.


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## Imurg (Feb 24, 2017)

I don't really understand the shock of Ranieri getting the boot.
Football is a results business especially at the top level.
He, for whatever reason, hasn't produced them.
Managers are getting sacked every week because they've strung a series of defeats together, it's been happening for years..
Why is this any different to Blackburn or Birmingham.....Aside from Leicester winning the League last season..?
Last season is last season - you can't live on former glories at the expense of current form.
The only thing that can change between now and the end of the season is the manager...If the results aren't coming what else is there.?
It's a shame but it's no surprise.


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## sawtooth (Feb 24, 2017)

Sad news about Ranieri, wins the PL for a club that has never won the top flight title in its 130+ history then gets sack less than 1 year later

It's a disgrace but he will walk away with a lot of credit and head held high.

Underlines for me how tough it is to keep winning in this league and that it should never be taken for granted.

In defence of the club if they manage to stay up then ultimately it will prove to be the right decision in the end.

i was the first to criticise Swansea when they replaced Bob Bradley a little early for my liking but new manager is getting results so fair play to them. 

I can see it from both sides.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 24, 2017)

Imurg said:



			I don't really understand the shock of Ranieri getting the boot.
Football is a results business especially at the top level.
He, for whatever reason, hasn't produced them.
Managers are getting sacked every week because they've strung a series of defeats together, it's been happening for years..
Why is this any different to Blackburn or Birmingham.....Aside from Leicester winning the League last season..?
Last season is last season - you can't live on former glories at the expense of current form.
The only thing that can change between now and the end of the season is the manager...If the results aren't coming what else is there.?
It's a shame but it's no surprise.
		
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It's more the timing for me, new man, no chance to sign anyone, obviously they see keeping him as a bigger risk, but who are they going to get?


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## Tashyboy (Feb 24, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			It's more the timing for me, new man, no chance to sign anyone, obviously they see keeping him as a bigger risk, but who are they going to get?
		
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first thing I said to my lad last night was "you do not sack someone at this stage of the season unless you have someone lined up already". If they have not, then Leicester could be goin down with Sunderland and Hull.


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 24, 2017)

Suggestions on the radio this morning that they want to bring in Mancini.


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## sawtooth (Feb 24, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Suggestions on the radio this morning that they want to bring in Mancini.
		
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Gary Rowett would be my choice.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 24, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Gary Rowett would be my choice.
		
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So a team is struggling and you think bringing in someone with no PL experience will help?


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## Slime (Feb 24, 2017)

I'd get Pearson back.


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## Beezerk (Feb 24, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Suggestions on the radio this morning that they want to bring in Mancini.
		
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I heard Hodgson mentioned on Radio 5 this morning.
Isn't Pardew available as well, then again he's just a one season trick pony.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 24, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Suggestions on the radio this morning that they want to bring in Mancini.
		
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Bobby Manc, get him in so he can finish off the job of getting them relegated. He would be a proper legend at Citeh then. &#128513;&#128077;


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## pokerjoke (Feb 24, 2017)

Just watching some reaction on you-tube and there's a rumour in one that some senior players were not happy with Ranieri and his methods this year.

If this is true what a bunch of back stabbing barstewards.


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## sawtooth (Feb 24, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			So a team is struggling and you think bringing in someone with no PL experience will help?
		
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Hull and Swansea look stronger for it. Why not Leicester?

If they go down Rowett would be more suitable than others that i can think of as well.

Not asking for anyone to buy players at this time of year just to get them playing better, think Rowett was unlucky to get boot at Birmingham.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 24, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Hull and Swansea look stronger for it. Why not Leicester?

If they go down Rowett would be more suitable than others that i can think of as well.

Not asking for anyone to buy players at this time of year just to get them playing better, think Rowett was unlucky to get boot at Birmingham.
		
Click to expand...

Totally different situations, Leicester have apparently done it to ensure they stay up (owners statement) so they won't be considering whose best if they go down.

Do like Rowett and would like to see him bring a team up from the Championship like Howe did, just think straight to PL would be too big a leap.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 24, 2017)

I just think the Leicester players had that "won it, so don't need to bother" thoughts going on. They are to blame for the teams poor performance.


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## sawtooth (Feb 24, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Totally different situations, Leicester have apparently done it to ensure they stay up (owners statement) so they won't be considering whose best if they go down.

Do like Rowett and would like to see him bring a team up from the Championship like Howe did, just think straight to PL would be too big a leap.
		
Click to expand...

All 3 teams fighting for PL survival , not exactly totally different IMO.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 24, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			All 3 teams fighting for PL survival , not exactly totally different IMO.
		
Click to expand...

Except one exceeded all expectations last season and in the last 16 of the CL.

Hull and Swansea tipped by loads to be near the bottom, Leics top 6.

The media pressure alone on Leicester is on another level, have a look at social media, Ranieri's sacking has gone global.


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## Fish (Feb 24, 2017)

Ranieri's statement in full

Yesterday my dream died.

After the euphoria of last season and being crowned Premier League champions, all I dreamt of was staying with Leicester City, the club I love, for always.

Sadly this was not to be. I wish to thank my wife Rosanna and all my family for their never-ending support during my time at Leicester.

My thanks go to Paolo and Andrea, who accompanied me on this wonderful journey. To Steve Kutner [Ranieri's agent] and Franco Granello [his Italian agent] for bringing me the opportunity to become a champion.

Mostly I have to thank Leicester City Football Club. The adventure was amazing and will live with me forever.

Thank you to all the journalists and the media who came with us and enjoyed reporting on the greatest story in football.

My heartfelt thanks to everybody at the club, all the players, the staff, everybody who was there and was part of what we achieved. But mostly to the supporters. You took me into your hearts from day one and loved me. I love you too.

No-one can ever take away what we together have achieved, and I hope you think about it and smile every day the way I always will.

It was a time of wonderfulness and happiness that I will never forget. It's been a pleasure and an honour to be a champion with all of you.

Claudio Ranieri


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## pokerjoke (Feb 24, 2017)

Fish said:



			Ranieri's statement in full

Yesterday my dream died.

After the euphoria of last season and being crowned Premier League champions, all I dreamt of was staying with Leicester City, the club I love, for always.

Sadly this was not to be. I wish to thank my wife Rosanna and all my family for their never-ending support during my time at Leicester.

My thanks go to Paolo and Andrea, who accompanied me on this wonderful journey. To Steve Kutner [Ranieri's agent] and Franco Granello [his Italian agent] for bringing me the opportunity to become a champion.

Mostly I have to thank Leicester City Football Club. The adventure was amazing and will live with me forever.

Thank you to all the journalists and the media who came with us and enjoyed reporting on the greatest story in football.

My heartfelt thanks to everybody at the club, all the players, the staff, everybody who was there and was part of what we achieved. But mostly to the supporters. You took me into your hearts from day one and loved me. I love you too.

No-one can ever take away what we together have achieved, and I hope you think about it and smile every day the way I always will.

It was a time of wonderfulness and happiness that I will never forget. It's been a pleasure and an honour to be a champion with all of you.

Claudio Ranieri
		
Click to expand...

Yes watching the news you cant but help feel sorry for the man.

A brutal results business and owners that don't understand football.

Once again we all expect Ranieri to be the class man he is even though his heart has been broken.

Never again will we see a club supported by so many who just wanted the underdog to succeed and we all went on that journey with them.

Today though there is so much hate for the club that sacked one of our own.


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## Tarkus1212 (Feb 24, 2017)

Fish said:



			Ranieri's statement in full

Yesterday my dream died.

After the euphoria of last season and being crowned Premier League champions, all I dreamt of was staying with Leicester City, the club I love, for always.

Sadly this was not to be. I wish to thank my wife Rosanna and all my family for their never-ending support during my time at Leicester.

My thanks go to Paolo and Andrea, who accompanied me on this wonderful journey. To Steve Kutner [Ranieri's agent] and Franco Granello [his Italian agent] for bringing me the opportunity to become a champion.

Mostly I have to thank Leicester City Football Club. The adventure was amazing and will live with me forever.

Thank you to all the journalists and the media who came with us and enjoyed reporting on the greatest story in football.

My heartfelt thanks to everybody at the club, all the players, the staff, everybody who was there and was part of what we achieved. But mostly to the supporters. You took me into your hearts from day one and loved me. I love you too.

No-one can ever take away what we together have achieved, and I hope you think about it and smile every day the way I always will.

It was a time of wonderfulness and happiness that I will never forget. It's been a pleasure and an honour to be a champion with all of you.

Claudio Ranieri
		
Click to expand...

A gentleman in the finest sense of the word. Too few of them in football at all levels. I hope he stays in England and gets a new club quickly. I'm glad I was at his last game as Chelsea manager, at least we got to say goodbye properly.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 24, 2017)

I heard a good discussion on the radio about this. The key point being football is a business. Hold that thought. It stopped being a jolly sport a while ago, it is a hard nosed business. Ranieri was the boss of a dept and that dept was about to lose Â£100m. You could sack all of the workers beneath him but that is impractical and ultimately he is in charge of the team. How many companies would allow a dept to keep walking towards a loss that size when a change at the top might, just might, stop that Â£100m loss. It's a business folks not Sunday league.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 24, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I heard a good discussion on the radio about this. The key point being football is a business. Hold that thought. It stopped being a jolly sport a while ago, it is a hard nosed business. Ranieri was the boss of a dept and that dept was about to lose Â£100m. You could sack all of the workers beneath him but that is impractical and ultimately he is in charge of the team. How many companies would allow a dept to keep walking towards a loss that size when a change at the top might, just might, stop that Â£100m loss. It's a business folks not Sunday league.
		
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Sad but true. 
Would UTD's owner take a win on Sunday over a top 4 finish? 
Not a chance. 
It's all about the Â£Â£


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 24, 2017)

How much did Leicester winning the Premier League last year earn them?

If you look at where Leicester finish year after year then this year they are around where they normally are. Last season was a freak and made the clubs millions of pounds in terms of prize money, Champions League, sponsorship and raised profile. I would also debate the Â£100 million figure as even with relegation the parachute payments would reduce that figure considerably. They're not and never have been an established PL team. I think it's very shoddy that the players have turned on the manager and have stabbed him in the back in such a way.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 24, 2017)

I think Ranieri can feel very let down by the players who have suddenly become "big time" and haven't put the efforts in on the pitch this year and seem to lack focus and commitment. A class statement by a classy man and I hope he can stay in England and find another team to build another dream with


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## sawtooth (Feb 24, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Except one exceeded all expectations last season and in the last 16 of the CL.

Hull and Swansea tipped by loads to be near the bottom, Leics top 6.

The media pressure alone on Leicester is on another level, have a look at social media, Ranieri's sacking has gone global.
		
Click to expand...

Rowett took over Birmingham when they were near bottom ( ok not the same league ) but guided them to 7th before he was sacked. Might have gone even higher with them.

He played  for Leicester as well which will certainly win him some friends.

And being a defender himself will probably get Leicester well organised and hard to beat.

A bit of value at 10/1 I reckon especially now that Mancini ruled himself out and I cant see Pearson and Pardew going there for various reasons.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 24, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Sad but true. 
Would UTD's owner take a win on Sunday over a top 4 finish? 
Not a chance. 
It's all about the Â£Â£
		
Click to expand...

That's a bad example though, you're comparing a decent season with a good season and both could be perceived as success,

Leicesters owners are gambling on failure and with the new manager only having current players to use they are putting all that failure on Ranieri.

Are they hoping to stay in PL or win CL, difference between 4th from bottom and relegation in financial terms is not a great deal if they bounce straight back.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 24, 2017)

Fish said:



			Ranieri's statement in full

Yesterday my dream died.

After the euphoria of last season and being crowned Premier League champions, all I dreamt of was staying with Leicester City, the club I love, for always.

Sadly this was not to be. I wish to thank my wife Rosanna and all my family for their never-ending support during my time at Leicester.

My thanks go to Paolo and Andrea, who accompanied me on this wonderful journey. To Steve Kutner [Ranieri's agent] and Franco Granello [his Italian agent] for bringing me the opportunity to become a champion.

Mostly I have to thank Leicester City Football Club. The adventure was amazing and will live with me forever.

Thank you to all the journalists and the media who came with us and enjoyed reporting on the greatest story in football.

My heartfelt thanks to everybody at the club, all the players, the staff, everybody who was there and was part of what we achieved. But mostly to the supporters. You took me into your hearts from day one and loved me. I love you too.

No-one can ever take away what we together have achieved, and I hope you think about it and smile every day the way I always will.

It was a time of wonderfulness and happiness that I will never forget. It's been a pleasure and an honour to be a champion with all of you.

Claudio Ranieri
		
Click to expand...




Tarkus1212 said:



			A gentleman in the finest sense of the word. Too few of them in football at all levels. I hope he stays in England and gets a new club quickly. I'm glad I was at his last game as Chelsea manager, at least we got to say goodbye properly.
		
Click to expand...

Can only second Tarkus1212's comments.  I too was at his last game as Chelsea manager, and it was my great pleasure to be part of the crowd that welcomed him & LCFC to Stamford Bridge as Premiership champions.  He will always be fondly remembered at the Bridge.  Good luck to you Claudio, you deserve it.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 24, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			That's a bad example though, you're comparing a decent season with a good season and both could be perceived as success,

Leicesters owners are gambling on failure and with the new manager only having current players to use they are putting all that failure on Ranieri.

Are they hoping to stay in PL or win CL, difference between 4th from bottom and relegation in financial terms is not a great deal if they bounce straight back.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry Paul &#128580;


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## Fish (Feb 25, 2017)

Reports coming through that players met with the owners to get Claudio sacked! So the news that there was no player revolt from the caretaker manager are lies!! 

Report:

Leicester players met the club's owners four times to get manager Claudio Ranieri sacked. 

The Foxes players who met Leicester chairman Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha on Wednesday included 30-year-old keeper Kasper Schmeichel, defender Wes Morgan, 33, midfielder Marc Albrighton, 27, and 30-year-old striker Jamie Vardy. 

I hope they enjoy themselves in the Championship &#128545;


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 25, 2017)

Fish said:



			Reports coming through that players met with the owners to get Claudio sacked! So the news that there was no player revolt from the caretaker manager are lies!! 

Report:

Leicester players met the club's owners four times to get manager Claudio Ranieri sacked. 

The Foxes players who met Leicester chairman Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha on Wednesday included 30-year-old keeper Kasper Schmeichel, defender Wes Morgan, 33, midfielder Marc Albrighton, 27, and 30-year-old striker Jamie Vardy. 

I hope they enjoy themselves in the Championship &#128545;
		
Click to expand...

Not surprised to see Vardy's name on the list. 
The guy comes across as a knob.


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## sawtooth (Feb 25, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not surprised to see Vardy's name on the list. 
The guy comes across as a knob.
		
Click to expand...

You don't know what to believe though, I also read that Okazaki liked an instagram picture of Ranieri leaving. 

It doesn't seem possible that players would turn on Ranieri after what happened last year.
I hope that it's all BS.

Pleased even more that we swerved Vardy, what an idiot for not signing for a bigger club when he had the 1 big chance. They don't often come around again, could be championship for him next year.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 25, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Pleased even more that we swerved Vardy, what an idiot for not signing for a bigger club when he had the 1 big chance. They don't often come around again, could be championship for him next year.
		
Click to expand...

Give it a rest,it's getting really boring now.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 25, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Rowett took over Birmingham when they were near bottom ( ok not the same league ) but guided them to 7th before he was sacked. Might have gone even higher with them.

He played  for Leicester as well which will certainly win him some friends.

And being a defender himself will probably get Leicester well organised and hard to beat.

A bit of value at 10/1 I reckon especially now that Mancini ruled himself out and I cant see Pearson and Pardew going there for various reasons.
		
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There speaks someone whose only knowledge of Rowett as a manager is garnered from the media. You clearly did not have the misfortune of having to sit through the turgid one-dimensional football he served up every week.

Other teams in the Championship like Brighton, Reading and Fulham manage to play an expansive, entertaining style as do some on tight budgets like Brentford and Barnsley.

I am afraid Rowett remains a long way from being a PL manager.


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## sawtooth (Feb 25, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			There speaks someone whose only knowledge of Rowett as a manager is garnered from the media. You clearly did not have the misfortune of having to sit through the turgid one-dimensional football he served up every week.

Other teams in the Championship like Brighton, Reading and Fulham manage to play an expansive, entertaining style as do some on tight budgets like Brentford and Barnsley.

I am afraid Rowett remains a long way from being a PL manager.
		
Click to expand...

And this sounds like someone not living in the real world.

Do you think Leicester care  about the brand of football right now?

They need results quickly and from a pretty average squad of players to boot .  Rowett did some great work with Burton and Birmingham.

Do you think Palace brought Allardyce in for his expansive football?


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## richy (Feb 25, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			You don't know what to believe though, I also read that Okazaki liked an instagram picture of Ranieri leaving. 

It doesn't seem possible that players would turn on Ranieri after what happened last year.
I hope that it's all BS.

Pleased even more that we swerved Vardy, what an idiot for not signing for a bigger club when he had the 1 big chance. They don't often come around again, could be championship for him next year.
		
Click to expand...

That's why you have to respect Van Persie for taking the opportunity when it came his way.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 25, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			And this sounds like someone not living in the real world.

Do you think Leicester care  about the brand of football right now?

They need results quickly and from a pretty average squad of players to boot .  Rowett did some great work with Burton and Birmingham.

Do you think Palace brought Allardyce in for his expansive football?
		
Click to expand...


No it's someone who has been a season-ticket holder at Birmingham for 40+years.

I also live in Leicestershire surrounded by Leicester fans so, just maybe, I am better qualified to speak than yourself on both Rowett's aattributes and what Leicester fans want.

As for Allardyce I will make a judgement at the end of the season but his pragmatic style has not exactly paid off as yet.


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## sawtooth (Feb 25, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			No it's someone who has been a season-ticket holder at Birmingham for 40+years.

I also live in Leicestershire surrounded by Leicester fans so, just maybe, I am better qualified to speak than yourself on both Rowett's aattributes and what Leicester fans want.

As for Allardyce I will make a judgement at the end of the season but his pragmatic style has not exactly paid off as yet.
		
Click to expand...

I will wait until the end of the season to evaluate Zola and the impact of his  entertaining/expansive style as well. Not exactly paid off yet either. But you are better qualified to say how well this is going than me.


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## anotherdouble (Feb 25, 2017)

richy said:



			That's why you have to respect Van Persie for taking the opportunity when it came his way.
		
Click to expand...

And toure clichy fabregas nasri


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 25, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I will wait until the end of the season to evaluate Zola and the impact of his  entertaining/expansive style as well. Not exactly paid off yet either. But you are better qualified to say how well this is going than me.
		
Click to expand...

I am far from convinced that Zola is the answer but I know Rowett wasn't.

Anyway, back to the Football League thread!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2017)

Another good win, hope to keep the run going but big test next week away at Spurs!


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## Fish (Feb 25, 2017)

Good goal by Fab on his 300th PL appearance and what an instinctive goal by Costa, he made it look easy but it was far from it, great technique and another 3 points and another game less &#128077;


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## The Evertonian (Feb 25, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Another good win, hope to keep the run going but big test next week away at Spurs!
		
Click to expand...

Another 2 week break now...we don't play Spuds till the 5th of March


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 25, 2017)

Check your calendar, that's next Sunday&#128513;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			Another 2 week break now...we don't play Spuds till the 5th of March
		
Click to expand...

You're playing too much golf with Davie La 
He's getting you confused :whoo:


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## The Evertonian (Feb 25, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			You're playing too much golf with Davie La 
He's getting you confused :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

Hahaha my bad...

Its got nothing to do with Dave though....we don't talk football, not while there are golf clubs about :mmm:


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## davemc1 (Feb 25, 2017)

Talk football all you like, we're on a winning spree! 

I'll even call you up from rcp on Tuesday if we beat Leicester :lol:



but if we dont, you're dead to me :rofl:


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## Fish (Feb 25, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			I'll even call you up from rcp on Tuesday if we beat Leicester :lol:
		
Click to expand...

You'll be on your own if your at RCP on Tuesday &#128540;&#127948;&#65039;&#9971;


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## davemc1 (Feb 25, 2017)

Fish said:



			You'll be on your own if your at RCP on Tuesday &#63004;&#62412;&#65039;&#9971;
		
Click to expand...

That was my ironic response to Scott getting his dates wrong &#128541;


honest &#128514;


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## The Evertonian (Feb 25, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			That was my ironic response to Scott getting his dates wrong &#63005;


honest &#62978;
		
Click to expand...

Good luck at the 'meet' Dave...don't use any of of the golf I've taught you &#128514;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			Good luck at the 'meet' Dave...don't use any of of the golf I've taught you &#128514;
		
Click to expand...

He won't be able to concentrate on the golf, he'll be to worried about the Leicester bounce-back on monday night


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## Fish (Feb 25, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			He won't be able to concentrate on the golf, he'll be to worried about the Leicester bounce-back on monday night 

Click to expand...

It's a tough game to call now based on that, Liverpool really should get the result based on both clubs seasons to date, but how many times have we seen a team react when a manager has gone. 

Nothing other than 3 points will be good enough for Liverpool with Man Utd breathing down their necks and Spurs now out of Europe.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2017)

Fish said:



			It's a tough game to call now based on that, Liverpool really should get the result based on both clubs seasons to date, but how many times have we seen a team react when a manager has gone. 

Nothing other than 3 points will be good enough for Liverpool with Man Utd breathing down their necks and Spurs now out of Europe.
		
Click to expand...

Really torn on this one, normally just hope for a decent game as a neutral, but after getting rid of Ranieri I'd like to see Leicester lose, but that means wanting our lovable neighbours to win.......decisions, decisions :rofl:

Also need Man Utd to win tomorrow as that could mean 7th qualifying for Europa League.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 25, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Really torn on this one, normally just hope for a decent game as a neutral, but after getting rid of Ranieri I'd like to see Leicester lose, but that means wanting our lovable neighbours to win.......decisions, decisions :rofl:

Also need Man Utd to win tomorrow as that could mean 7th qualifying for Europa League. 

Click to expand...

boo hiss!!

Considering cheering on Livepool and a team from Manchester wishing 48 hours. 

Shame on You!


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 26, 2017)

Paul is clearly tripping on something &#128513;. I'd like a 5-0 hammering and Saints to lift the trophy. Jose sucking a lemon always brings joy. Stuff the Europa league. It adds nothing to a season and just drains teams. Best avoided.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 26, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Paul is clearly tripping on something &#128513;. I'd like a 5-0 hammering and Saints to lift the trophy. Jose sucking a lemon always brings joy. *Stuff the Europa league. It adds nothing to a season and just drains teams. Best avoided*.
		
Click to expand...


You could say the same about the CL but then you's wouldn't know about that :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Feb 26, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Really torn on this one, normally just hope for a decent game as a neutral, but after getting rid of Ranieri I'd like to see Leicester lose, but that means wanting our lovable neighbours to win.......decisions, decisions :rofl:

Also need Man Utd to win tomorrow as that could mean 7th qualifying for Europa League. 

Click to expand...

I always knew you're a closet red


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I always knew you're a closet red 

Click to expand...

If Ranieri had been manager still I'd want you's hammered :whoo:


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 26, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			You could say the same about the CL but then you's wouldn't know about that :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

 
True, but I've read about Liverpool in history classes so I know a little bit


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## Stuart_C (Feb 26, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			If Ranieri had been manager still I'd want you's hammered :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

Yeah yeah I believe you


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## Stuart_C (Feb 26, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			True, but I've read about Liverpool in history classes so I know a little bit 

Click to expand...

Congratulations on being  able to read :rofl:


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 26, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Congratulations on being  able to read :rofl:
		
Click to expand...


The book had some pictures in it so that helped :thup:, Phil Thompson, Phil Neale, Alan Kennedy etc. Apparently you used to be quite good.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 26, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The book had some pictures in it so that helped :thup:, Phil Thompson, Phil Neale, Alan Kennedy etc. Apparently you used to be quite good.
		
Click to expand...

You're in for a treat when you get to the 21st century


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			True, but I've read about Liverpool in history classes so I know a little bit 

Click to expand...

Did the lesson start with:

Founded in 1965............ :rofl:


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 26, 2017)

Ha ha. Getting up to date, hope Stokie isn't watching the match &#128561;


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## Jensen (Feb 26, 2017)

Great performance from Harry Kane. Showed excellent technique for his second. My only concern is an over reliance on Kane, we need another striker. I so wish we landed Sadio Berahino


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## Slime (Feb 26, 2017)

Ibraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
I'll ask it again .................... signing of the season?


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 26, 2017)

Just watching the Rugby video ref got everything right.
turned over to final Gabbiadini scores officials get it wrong again 
This needs sorting.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 26, 2017)

Slime said:



			Ibraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
I'll ask it again .................... signing of the season?
		
Click to expand...

Nope,still Kante &#128540;


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 26, 2017)

Slime said:



			Ibraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
I'll ask it again .................... signing of the season?
		
Click to expand...

agree with you but should be 1-1


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## Slime (Feb 26, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			agree with you but should be 1-1
		
Click to expand...



I agree with you ................... but it isn't .................. it's 2-0!


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## Old Skier (Feb 26, 2017)

Slime said:



			I agree with you ................... but it isn't .................. it's 2-0!
		
Click to expand...

Or 2-1


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2017)

Couple of things 

1. Neville as a commentator is getting a bit too fond of his own voice 

2. Herrera- what a joke of a player in Regards his acting whenever he is touched - he wants that Oscar 

3. That offside decision was disgraceful - they should be made to pay for mistakes like that as it could cost Southampton 

4. Neville is such a poor pundit and Redknapp isn't much better


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 26, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Couple of things 

1. Neville as a commentator is getting a bit too fond of his own voice 

2. Herrera- what a joke of a player in Regards his acting whenever he is touched - he wants that Oscar 

3. That offside decision was disgraceful - they should be made to pay for mistakes like that as it could cost Southampton 

4. Neville is such a poor pundit and Redknapp isn't much better
		
Click to expand...

what will cost saints is the marking for Linguards goal was shocking.
a bit like Kane's second before 18 yd line no one within 10 yds of him.

is Pogba going to give a penalty away I have never seen anyone mark so badly.
Jose should put him on halfway line for corners
Should be the lads hatrick.


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## chrisd (Feb 26, 2017)

Go on Saints!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2017)

Ref has bottled that - Lingard should be off


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## Slime (Feb 26, 2017)

Ooooh, it's all going horribly wrong.
Hey ho, c'est la vie, plenty of time left.
At least we got to the final!


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## Slime (Feb 26, 2017)

United are all over the place right now.


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## Slime (Feb 26, 2017)

I've got a bit of a man-crush going on right now .


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2017)

Gutted for Southampton- looking like they are going to be robbed by poor officials


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 26, 2017)

Ibra to score a header 7/1. 
Yes Slime he could be the greatest signing of all time &#128540;


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 26, 2017)

Slime said:



			I've got a bit of a man-crush going on right now .
		
Click to expand...

We'd never have guessed. 
He as got lovely hair &#128514;


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## MegaSteve (Feb 26, 2017)

A match worthy of a cup final...


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## ger147 (Feb 26, 2017)

Brilliant shift from big Ibra.


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## Jensen (Feb 26, 2017)

Slime said:



			Ibraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
I'll ask it again .................... signing of the season?
		
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He's a fantastic player, shame he didn't come to Premier League earlier in his career


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 26, 2017)

Jensen said:



			He's a fantastic player, shame he didn't come to Premier League earlier in his career
		
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He was rubbish until he turned 30


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## Slime (Feb 26, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Gutted for Southampton- looking like they are going to be robbed by poor officials
		
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Every team benefits from incorrect decisions, today United got one in their favour, get over it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2017)

Slime said:



			Every team benefits from incorrect decisions, today United got one in their favour, get over it.
		
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Just the one ? They official bottled it big style today and in a cup final. The offside a small a joke and then the Ref bottling not sending off Lingard. Embarrassing.


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## Slime (Feb 26, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just the one ? They official bottled it big style today and in a cup final. The offside a small a joke and then the Ref bottling not sending off Lingard. Embarrassing.
		
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Your angst is just hilarious :rofl:.

I wonder what your reaction would have been had S'ton won via dodgy decisions.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2017)

Slime said:



			Your angst is just hilarious :rofl:.

I wonder what your reaction would have been had S'ton won via dodgy decisions.
		
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Well as my "angst" is aimed towards the incompetent officials it will be exactly the same.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 26, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just the one ? They official bottled it big style today and in a cup final. The offside a small a joke and then the Ref bottling not sending off Lingard. Embarrassing.
		
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Your embarrassing so quick to get a dig in your whole post needs re-writing.


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## Dan2501 (Feb 26, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			He was rubbish until he turned 30
		
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That's not a serious post, is it?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2017)

Good result, just need Utd to finish top 6 or one of top 6 to win FA Cup and we have a chance of Europa League :whoo:,


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## pokerjoke (Feb 26, 2017)

All this crap about the Southampton player should have had a hat trick is just plain stupid as obviously all the things that happened after just wouldn't have happened that way.

Yes he was onside but decisions like this have been happening all season as it seems refs are getting worse.

Another trophy in the cabinet and obviously more bitterness from the haters:rofl:


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## huds1475 (Feb 26, 2017)

Very enjoyable final, both teams should get credit for an open game. Wouldn't have begrudged Southampton a victory if it had panned out that way.

Would hope neutrals enjoyed it too, a bit of everything for everyone, even some controversy for the ( mod edit) to take back to their holes :thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2017)

huds1475 said:



			Very enjoyable final, both teams should get credit for an open game. Wouldn't have begrudged Southampton a victory if it had panned out that way.

Would hope neutrals enjoyed it too, a bit of everything for everyone, even some controversy for the (mod edit)  to take back to their holes :thup:
		
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Steady on old bean, let's not tar everyone with the same brush,


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2017)

huds1475 said:



			Very enjoyable final, both teams should get credit for an open game. Wouldn't have begrudged Southampton a victory if it had panned out that way.

Would hope neutrals enjoyed it too, a bit of everything for everyone, even some controversy for the *( mod edit) to take back to their holes* :thup:
		
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Is there really any need to post childish pathetic insults ?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is there really any need to post childish pathetic insults ?
		
Click to expand...

Grow up, it's Craig and it's banter!


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## huds1475 (Feb 26, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Steady on old bean, let's not tar everyone with the same brush, 

Click to expand...

I don't Paul. 

Always have time for Evertonians


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## huds1475 (Feb 26, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is there really any need to post childish pathetic insults ?
		
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We all have different names for things Phil. Am sure your mob have names for us too...

Apologies if you're offended.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2017)

huds1475 said:



			I don't Paul. 

Always have time for Evertonians
		
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ffs, don't start splitting teams  you'll have the fun police posting again!


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## richy (Feb 26, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Grow up, it's Craig and it's banter!
		
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ylu should know by now, it's only banter when he does it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2017)

Good to see Liverpool have changed their Twitter page
:rofl:


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 26, 2017)

Cracking final and good to see one so open. I thought Southampton gave a fantastic account of themselves and did the club and fans proud despite coming up short. Ibrahimovich showing he's a fantastic bit of business and marvellous finish for the winner. 

Missed the Spurs game but Kane seemed to have found his touch again and Spurs march up to second. Puts a bit of pressure back on City to respond


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 26, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			That's not a serious post, is it?
		
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No not st all mate,just saw some stat the other day about his goal record since turning 30.


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## SaintHacker (Feb 26, 2017)

Gutted tonight but also very proud of my team. I won't go on about decisions, it is what it is. Have to say fair play to Mourihno for his post match interview, very magnanimous


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 26, 2017)

No idea if this has been confirmed or not but if it is true then it shows what sort of man they have just got rid of.........


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 26, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			No idea if this has been confirmed or not but if it is true then it shows what sort of man they have just got rid of.........

View attachment 22031

Click to expand...

I do hope it is. Marvellous gesture by a real football gent


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## pbrown7582 (Feb 26, 2017)

Great match great day out!

Karma after Bobby stokes........ See all decisions do even out in the end! 

42>41


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## Papas1982 (Feb 26, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			Great match great day out!

Karma after Bobby stokes........ See all decisions do even out in the end! 

42>41
		
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What injustice did you suffer at the hands of Stokes? 

I could undestand you calling it Revenge against Saints. But karma? Only seen it replayed in black n white once, but don't recall the goal being unjust.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 26, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			No idea if this has been confirmed or not but if it is true then it shows what sort of man they have just got rid of.........

View attachment 22031

Click to expand...

It wouldn't surprise me; he donated all the proceeds from his autobiography, "Proud Man Walking", to Great Ormond Street Hospital.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...steps-chelseas-machiavellian-world-28014.html


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## Junior (Feb 27, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Couple of things 

1. Neville as a commentator is getting a bit too fond of his own voice
		
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lol - ex-players turned pundits annoy me.......they all love the sound of their own voice mate.  They have had their ego's massaged for the past 15 years so think that their knowledge of the game is footballing equivalent of Einstein crossed with Socrates.  The vast majority are dumb as dog dirt and sky or the beeb shouldn't give them the tv pay day.


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## Junior (Feb 27, 2017)

&#12288;

I missed half the game but caught up last night.  It was a great 'open' final, Southampton were the better side, but top class markmanship and a dodgy decision swung it our way.   Main issue for us was that Mata was out on the right and didn't get a sniff moving into a central position (where he has been awesome for us) and we missed Mkhitaryan.   Herrera and Pogba worked very hard and whilst they may not have shone, they had to play a strong game.  I know a lot of people don't like Herrera, but to me , he is a great player.  He is one of those players, who, if he is on your team you like, but if not, you hate as he still a bit too theatrical.  He does however do the hard yards.....covers a lot of ground, breaks the play up,  and does not give the ball away.  &#12288;

My worry is that we looked a tired side now.  Chelski will smash us if they come at us hard like Saints did.


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## huds1475 (Feb 27, 2017)

Agree about Herrera Andy.

To me at least, hes shaping into the player that Carrick never quite did. Has more going forward and turns up more often in big games.


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## Junior (Feb 27, 2017)

huds1475 said:



			Agree about Herrera Andy.

To me at least, hes shaping into the player that Carrick never quite did. Has more going forward and turns up more often in big games.
		
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Exactly mate.  He'll never win man of the match awards, but is one of those unsung players whereby , if he doesn't play, the team will miss him.  He's not had much of a chance to press forward this season with Mata and Mkhitaryian doing well, but I agree, he can score if he presses on.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 27, 2017)

RIP Alex Young - The Golden Vision, one of Everton, Hearts and Scotlands greatest ever players.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 27, 2017)

Seems like a different Leicester side tonight. Playing with speed and a degree of passion and ambition. Still look shaky at the back mind


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## garyinderry (Feb 27, 2017)

Unreal technique to keep that down.  Pure class goal.


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## Imurg (Feb 27, 2017)

Can Leicester still, mathematically, win the League..?&#128513;&#128513;


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 27, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Unreal technique to keep that down.  Pure class goal. 

Click to expand...

As they use to say "take a bow son"

Big second half for the Klopp express


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## ger147 (Feb 27, 2017)

Imurg said:



			Can Leicester still, mathematically, win the League..?&#128513;&#128513;
		
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In answer to your question, no.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 27, 2017)

Imurg said:



			Can Leicester still, mathematically, win the League..?&#128513;&#128513;
		
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Can Liverpool? &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 27, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Can Liverpool? &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;
		
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Also a no (although mathmatically yes :rofl


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 27, 2017)

Can anyone explain how Liverpool are losing now that Mane is back in the team? 
Apparently their bad run was all down to him going to ACON &#129300;


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 27, 2017)

Liverpool haven't turned up worts going on .
you have to ask why has vary not played like this for Ranieri this season.
Reminds me of hazard last year 
we deserve to be behind just hope they show some fight second half.
They just look lacklustre.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 27, 2017)

Missing Horrenderson, no leader on the pitch


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## sawtooth (Feb 27, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Liverpool haven't turned up worts going on .
you have to ask why has vary not played like this for Ranieri this season.
Reminds me of hazard last year 
we deserve to be behind just hope they show some fight second half.
They just look lacklustre.
		
Click to expand...

That was a worldy from Drinkwater and suddenly Liverpool find themselves with a mountain to climb. Time for Klopp to start showing some tactical nous.


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## Slime (Feb 27, 2017)

Just turned the telly on ....................... bloody hell, what's going on, they're 2-0 up!


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## ger147 (Feb 27, 2017)

Oops...


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## Imurg (Feb 27, 2017)

Well, well, well........


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## sawtooth (Feb 27, 2017)

Slime said:



			Just turned the telly on ....................... bloody hell, what's going on, they're 2-0 up!
		
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Make that 3. Wow.


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## GreiginFife (Feb 27, 2017)

These players have stitched Ranieri up. But still that was a quality goal.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 27, 2017)

Chooooochoooo all aboard &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;

I'll say it again Klopp as not improved this team one bit


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## garyinderry (Feb 27, 2017)

Lucas in defence was always going to be a big problem up against Vardy's pace.


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## Junior (Feb 27, 2017)

GreiginFife said:



			These players have stitched Ranieri up.
		
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Agree 100%.


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## sawtooth (Feb 27, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Lucas in defence was always going to be a big problem up against Vardy's pace.
		
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Milner, Goalie, no out and out striker. Klopp has a lot of work to do in the Summer assuming the club back him.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 27, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Lucas in defence was always going to be a big problem up against Vardy's pace.
		
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Yes he is but why can't Klopp see that.
we are getting what we deserve here can't defend for toffee.
just a poor poor preformance


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## richy (Feb 27, 2017)

People saying "why couldn't Leicester play like this for Ranieri?"

They're only beating Liverpool. Hardly an impossible job


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 27, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Milner, Goalie, no out and out striker. Klopp has a lot of work to do in the Summer assuming the club back him.
		
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I'd be worried about saturday, they turn up for top 6 clubs.


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 27, 2017)

richy said:



			People saying "why couldn't Leicester play like this for Ranieri?"
		
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Because, much like the Chelsea players that downed tools for Mourinho last season, the Leicester players for whatever reason decided they didn't want to put in the effort for Ranieri this season. They should be ashamed of themselves.


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## sawtooth (Feb 27, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I'd be worried about saturday, they turn up for top 6 clubs. 

Click to expand...

That's OK we're a top 4 side.:thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 27, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			That's OK we're a top 4 side.:thup:
		
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You won't be by half five saturday if Utd win their match  6th V 5th :whoo:


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## Tashyboy (Feb 27, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Milner, Goalie, no out and out striker. Klopp has a lot of work to do in the Summer assuming the club back him.
		
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Ah say, I was reading on here three months ago how Milner was a class act and Liverpool got the  better deal when he went there and we got Sterling.


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## Captainron (Feb 27, 2017)

Klopp on thin ice??


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 27, 2017)




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## clubchamp98 (Feb 27, 2017)

Think the Liverpool players seen how Leicster players ousted Ranieri and maybe trying to get rid of Klopp.
abysmal from reds to many anonymous players .
that was hard to watch as its so poor.
But well done to foxes pity you could not play like that to save your manager.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 27, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Ah say, I was reading on here three months ago how Milner was a class act and Liverpool got the  better deal when he went there and we got Sterling.
		
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cant really see what Millner did wrong tonight.
theres just nothing in front of him.
Sterling is like Harry Kewell you may get 5 good games a season.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 27, 2017)

When was Harry Kewell fit for five games a season?


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 27, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			When was Harry Kewell fit for five games a season?
		
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Giving Sterling the benefit of the dought I had to pick a number


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 27, 2017)

Ha ha. Fair enough &#128513;


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## guest100718 (Feb 27, 2017)

ha ha ha...

COYS


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## HankMarvin (Feb 27, 2017)

richy said:



			People saying "why couldn't Leicester play like this for Ranieri?"

They're only beating Liverpool. Hardly an impossible job
		
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Well said, Liverpool are rather crap if the truth be told.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 27, 2017)

Hard for Liverpool to put in a performance like that and still maintain they have a title chance. Very poor and too may weak links still. Not sure the Klopp express is re-railed and he'll be give (or should be) the summer to continue the rebuild but he'll need a strong start next season


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## guest100718 (Feb 27, 2017)

HankMarvin said:



			Well said, Liverpool are rather crape if the truth be told.
		
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last week after beating SPurs they were title contenders.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 27, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			last week after beating SPurs they were title contenders.
		
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Aren't they always title contenders. However like Arsenal, and others though will they ever be anything more?


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## sawtooth (Feb 27, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Hard for Liverpool to put in a performance like that and still maintain they have a title chance. Very poor and too may weak links still. Not sure the Klopp express is re-railed and he'll be give (or should be) the summer to continue the rebuild but he'll need a strong start next season
		
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Liverpool have been poor for ages, only recent win was their home banker against a weakened Spurs side.


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## The Evertonian (Feb 27, 2017)

A dark day for all Evertonians with the sad passing of 'The Golden Vision'...

I think he'd of enjoyed MNF...

RIP Alex Young


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## richy (Feb 28, 2017)

Strangely quiet on here &#129300;


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## user2010 (Feb 28, 2017)

As I said a fair few posts ago, it`s a good job Liverpool have got more than 40 points already this season, because most of  their performances this year have been relegation material, and I`m an armchair Liverpool fan.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 28, 2017)

richy said:



			Strangely quiet on here &#129300;
		
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Unbelievable isn't it.
If Arsenal were playing and losing there would be posts galore.
I can only put it down to SHOCK some thought Klopp was the answer but it looks like he is not.

I can actually see him walking.
Liverpool need to change and buy big if Klopp doesn't get the money to do this he could walk.

It was mentioned last night but imo any manager that thinks Lucas is a centre back is deluded and it defies belief that someone who gets paid a serious amount of money thinks he is.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 28, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			cant really see what Millner did wrong tonight.
theres just nothing in front of him.
Sterling is like Harry Kewell you may get 5 good games a season.
		
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well lucky us, coz he has had next seasons five good games and the year afters as well whilst playing for us this season. Fingers crossed it continues.

Joking aside, city started off like poo off a shovel. They hit a bad patch like Liverpool are in now. Like Leicester are in now ( one swallow). But the players continued to play for Pep. Why like Leicester did they stop playing for Claudio. Are Liverpool playing for Klopp. city did well getting rid of some trouble players. Do Liverpool and  Leicester still have them.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 28, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			well lucky us, coz he has had next seasons five good games and the year afters as well whilst playing for us this season. Fingers crossed it continues.

Joking aside, city started off like poo off a shovel. They hit a bad patch like Liverpool are in now. Like Leicester are in now ( one swallow). But the players continued to play for Pep. Why like Leicester did they stop playing for Claudio. Are Liverpool playing for Klopp. city did well getting rid of some trouble players. Do Liverpool and  Leicester still have them.
		
Click to expand...

seriously you can't blame Milner for that crap how well would sterling play out of position.
He has played out of position all season , Lukas is not a centre back he has no pace.
Leaving space behind for Vardy to exploit .
Thats the managers fault .
He thinks his way of playing is the right way but lacks two main ingredients 
He hasn't got the players.
Tactics were all wrong he has no plan B.
You can clearly see some players are not happy with the system .
We hear it every year " we need to rebuild for next season"
Inmho he has made the same mistakes as the end of last season and we are worse now than 12 months ago.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 28, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			seriously you can't blame Milner for that crap how well would sterling play out of position.
He has played out of position all season , Lukas is not a centre back he has no pace.
Leaving space behind for Vardy to exploit .
Thats the managers fault .
He thinks his way of playing is the right way but lacks two main ingredients 
He hasn't got the players.
Tactics were all wrong he has no plan B.
You can clearly see some players are not happy with the system .
We hear it every year " we need to rebuild for next season"
Inmho he has made the same mistakes as the end of last season and we are worse now than 12 months ago.
		
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Mate spot on and honesty at last from a Liverpool fan someone it seams who knows his football.

Klopps style of play of the high pressing game can work but not every game and that is where his problems lie he has actually knackered his players out and they no longer can press,now he needs to adapt he cant.
He certainly has not got the players or a big enough squad and as I predicted weeks back they will be 6th at best.

Liverpool have has some really impressive performances earlier in the season when they were fresh and fit however they need additional players of quality.

Ive heard people question Utd and there bench costing 200 million well that's because its required to compete especially on so many levels.

The way the P/L going it could be a long time before Liverpool compete for the title I hope not though because the banter wouldn't be the same and the delusional comments would not continue,now wheres the fun in that.


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## beachbunker (Feb 28, 2017)

Every Leicester loss greatly amuses me as I can abuse the fans in the office. Trust Liverpool to ruin that for me.


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## Slime (Feb 28, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			I can actually see him walking.
*Liverpool need to change and buy big if Klopp doesn't get the money to do this he could walk.
*
It was mentioned last night but imo any manager that thinks Lucas is a centre back is deluded and it defies belief that someone who gets paid a serious amount of money thinks he is.
		
Click to expand...

He's already had three transfer windows but Liverpool appear not to have improved.
Where does the problem lie?
With the board or with the manager?


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## pokerjoke (Feb 28, 2017)

Slime said:



			He's already had three transfer windows but Liverpool appear not to have improved.
Where does the problem lie?
With the board or with the manager?
		
Click to expand...

As I understand it from reading reports Klopp has got money to spend how much I don't know or really care[perhaps the fans do know].
However its the quality of player they are going to get that would be a worry because the top players now go for 70-100 million and only a few clubs can buy these,the 40-70 million players will want C/L football or a massive wage so I suppose Liverpool will be looking at the 20-40 million bracket.
The question then would be are they good enough players to get Liverpool challenging for the title.

With the amount of improvements needed and additional squad players this could top Â£300 million have they got that type of money?

That's why imo it will take years for them to challenge as it seems a long term process because the other 5 teams up there have this type of budget.


----------



## sawtooth (Feb 28, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			As I understand it from reading reports Klopp has got money to spend how much I don't know or really care[perhaps the fans do know].
However its the quality of player they are going to get that would be a worry because the top players now go for 70-100 million and only a few clubs can buy these,the 40-70 million players will want C/L football or a massive wage so I suppose Liverpool will be looking at the 20-40 million bracket.
The question then would be are they good enough players to get Liverpool challenging for the title.

With the amount of improvements needed and additional squad players this could top Â£300 million have they got that type of money?

That's why imo it will take years for them to challenge as it seems a long term process because the other 5 team<script id="gpt-impl-0.9431714390633439" src="https://securepubads.g.doubleclick.net/gpt/pubads_impl_110.js"></script>s up there have this type of budget.
		
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Its not easy to win the league and even before a ball is kicked we know who the top 3 is likely to be. 

A team with less resources can defy the odds if they can buy wisely and manage to keep the team together long enough.  Then with a good manager and an enormous slice of good fortune they might just win the league. 

The problem most clubs have is that as soon as they start to do well their players leave are poached. Back to rebuilding again. 

Then when you eventually have a strong starting 11 you have to keep the players fit during the season and this is where the good fortune comes in. Look at Leicester last year, record for lowest number of changes from their starting 11 throughout the season. And this year Chelsea are probably on course to beat that, I could literally name the Chelsea side now to play West Ham next week  - Coutois, Azpilicueta, Luiz, Cahill, Moses, kante, Fabregas, Alonso, Pedro, Hazard, Costa. Its the same every week!


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## Kellfire (Feb 28, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I could literally name the Chelsea side now to play West Ham next week  - Coutois, Azpilicueta, Luiz, Cahill, Moses, kante, Fabregas, Alonso, Pedro, Hazard, Costa. Its the same every week!
		
Click to expand...

While you might be right for the next game, that wasn't the Chelsea line up two matches ago in the league. Or three. Or four. Or five... I could go on.


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## sawtooth (Feb 28, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			While you might be right for the next game, that wasn't the Chelsea line up two matches ago in the league. Or three. Or four. Or five... I could go on. 

Click to expand...

Ah OK they might have occasionally switched a Pedro for Matic or whatever , but the mainstay of the team seems to be always the same. 

 I think Leicester made 33 changes during a whole season so you will expect some of course but compared to everyone else they did exceptionally well.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 28, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Its not easy to win the league and even before a ball is kicked we know who the top 3 is likely to be. 

A team with less resources can defy the odds if they can buy wisely and manage to keep the team together long enough.  Then with a good manager and an enormous slice of good fortune they might just win the league. 

The problem most clubs have is that as soon as they start to do well their players leave are poached. Back to rebuilding again. 

Then when you eventually have a strong starting 11 you have to keep the players fit during the season and this is where the good fortune comes in. Look at Leicester last year, record for lowest number of changes from their starting 11 throughout the season. And this year Chelsea are probably on course to beat that, I could literally name the Chelsea side now to play West Ham next week  - Coutois, Azpilicueta, Luiz, Cahill, Moses, kante, Fabregas, Alonso, Pedro, Hazard, Costa. Its the same every week!
		
Click to expand...

That's rubbish, you're talking about the top 3 when they are performing, arguably you's were in the best position to take advantage of those 3 teams having new managers, yes you may need to spend Â£300 million initially to get near them if you're starting from 7th or 8th, but you's haven't been that far behind and actually ahead at times, you's could've spent on 2 or 3 quality players and challenged seriously, 
It gets to the point were you have to stop moaning about their spending.


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## Fish (Feb 28, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Unbelievable isn't it.
If Arsenal were playing and losing there would be posts galore.
I can only put it down to SHOCK some thought Klopp was the answer but it looks like he is not.

I can actually see him walking.
Liverpool need to change and buy big if Klopp doesn't get the money to do this he could walk.

It was mentioned last night but imo any manager that thinks Lucas is a centre back is deluded and it defies belief that someone who gets paid a serious amount of money thinks he is.
		
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Maybe because we're all away playing golf and internet access is poor in Deal where we're all staying &#129300; But hey, let's start s conspiracy &#128514;&#128514;


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## pokerjoke (Feb 28, 2017)

Fish said:



			Maybe because we're all away playing golf and internet access is poor in Deal where we're all staying &#129300; But hey, let's start s conspiracy &#128514;&#128514;
		
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Not now though is it.
And do you mean poor or not available at all?


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## Fish (Feb 28, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Not now though is it.
And do you mean poor or not available at all?
		
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In Royal St George's now with wireless but very poor everywhere else but we all had better things to do, like bitching about everyone who wasn't here &#128540;&#128514;&#128514;


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## pokerjoke (Feb 28, 2017)

Lol like were missing something, bloody freezing and peeing down that's not fun,enjoy though.


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## user2010 (Feb 28, 2017)

Carragher had it right last night, shameful. If that`s the display that team puts on after having 16 days off without a game, then they should all hang their heads in shame. I`d fine the lot of `em 2 weeks wages.


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## guest100718 (Feb 28, 2017)

Slime said:



			He's already had three transfer windows but Liverpool appear not to have improved.
Where does the problem lie?
With the board or with the manager?
		
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you mean great transfer moves such as missing out on ali the boyhood Liverpool  fan because the owners are too tight.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 28, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			seriously you can't blame Milner for that crap how well would sterling play out of position.
He has played out of position all season , Lukas is not a centre back he has no pace.
Leaving space behind for Vardy to exploit .
Thats the managers fault .
He thinks his way of playing is the right way but lacks two main ingredients 
He hasn't got the players.
Tactics were all wrong he has no plan B.
You can clearly see some players are not happy with the system .
We hear it every year " we need to rebuild for next season"
Inmho he has made the same mistakes as the end of last season and we are worse now than 12 months ago.
		
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You have answered my point yourself. Sterling was played out, no out played from his natural position last season and had a shocker. He has played his natural game this year and is on fire. my point about Milner is, Where is his best position? And where ever it is, he is not good enough to be a top four team player in whatever position he plays. As a squad player yes, but a regular at centre half, left of right back, wing or midfield, or centre forward. He is ok but not a sterling, Silva, Aguero. Or whoever is the equivalent at Liverpool.
Noticed I never picked any defenders., coz we are crap in defence, and yes he would of done a job at City, but no better than what we already have. We have put square pegs in round holes all year with our defence. You have seen how that has turned out.
 My initial point about Milner was nothing to do with last nights performance from the team, it was to do with the fact that he was raved about earlier in the season in a sense that Liverpool got a better deal in the Milner and Sterling " swop". I said otherwise and still stand by that.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 28, 2017)

Don't think Liverpool are as bad as some on hear are saying, look at the performance they put in against Spurs they were brilliant that night, as they were earlier in the season.

But they still need a few more players and not solved the problem with the goalkeeper, think 6th will be best they can achieve this season.

Daft to criticise Klopp to much he will need more time.


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 28, 2017)

huds1475 said:



			Very enjoyable final, both teams should get credit for an open game. Wouldn't have begrudged Southampton a victory if it had panned out that way.

Would hope neutrals enjoyed it too, a bit of everything for everyone, even some controversy for the bindippers to take back to their holes :thup:
		
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Im really looking forward to our next meet when you continue with the anti-scouse comments.

No handshake next time lad, your becoming a boring embarrassment.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 28, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			Don't think Liverpool are as bad as some on hear are saying, look at the performance they put in against Spurs they were brilliant that night, as they were earlier in the season.

But they still need a few more players and not solved the problem with the goalkeeper, think 6th will be best they can achieve this season.

Daft to criticise Klopp to much he will need more time.
		
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Klopp has no plan B which will stop us losing to teams in the bottom three.
If he doesn't stop us losing games we will finish lower in the league.
That is not going to entice top players for next season.
So in a years time we will be saying the same things like now about last season when he made the same mistakes.
He needs to sort the defence out he has had 18 months to get a keeper and some defenders.
for the money Liverpool have spent over the last couple of years the squad is poor.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 28, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Klopp has no plan B which will stop us losing to teams in the bottom three.
If he doesn't stop us losing games we will finish lower in the league.
That is not going to entice top players for next season.
So in a years time we will be saying the same things like now about last season when he made the same mistakes.
He needs to sort the defence out he has had 18 months to get a keeper and some defenders.
for the money Liverpool have spent over the last couple of years the squad is poor.
		
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The problem as others have said is you need to attract the very top players to compete with the likes of Chelsea and City and the only lure Liverpool would have is if they offered CL football next season. More performances like last night will stop that. It really didn't seem like Klopp knew what to do to change it last night and that's worrying


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 28, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			You have answered my point yourself. Sterling was played out, no out played from his natural position last season and had a shocker. He has played his natural game this year and is on fire. my point about Milner is, Where is his best position? And where ever it is, he is not good enough to be a top four team player in whatever position he plays. As a squad player yes, but a regular at centre half, left of right back, wing or midfield, or centre forward. He is ok but not a sterling, Silva, Aguero. Or whoever is the equivalent at Liverpool.
Noticed I never picked any defenders., coz we are crap in defence, and yes he would of done a job at City, but no better than what we already have. We have put square pegs in round holes all year with our defence. You have seen how that has turned out.
 My initial point about Milner was nothing to do with last nights performance from the team, it was to do with the fact that he was raved about earlier in the season in a sense that Liverpool got a better deal in the Milner and Sterling " swop". I said otherwise and still stand by that.
		
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I would have Milner before Ottamendi and he IS supposed to be a defender.
Bit unfair to to compare him to that trio Milner is a squad player but Klopp has done nothing to buy a fullback.
I liked Sterling but he didn't want to play for us that's a pity.
Milner or Sterling no brainier but he wanted to go.
I think in another year Sterling will be a very good player.
Anyone can look good when the team are playing well , but then look very average when the team are struggling.
We have major problems all over the park at least yours are just in defence


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 28, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Klopp has no plan B which will stop us losing to teams in the bottom three.
If he doesn't stop us losing games we will finish lower in the league.
That is not going to entice top players for next season.
So in a years time we will be saying the same things like now about last season when he made the same mistakes.
He needs to sort the defence out he has had 18 months to get a keeper and some defenders.
for the money Liverpool have spent over the last couple of years the squad is poor.
		
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It's ok critisising the defence and Klopp, but we thought Sahko was the new round peg for the round hole, only for him to create issues off the pitch which Klopp had to address and assert his authority. Sadly that means the search is on again.
Dont forget the lieks of Flanagan will be back next season after his loan spell to strengthen and fully recover .


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## Imurg (Feb 28, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			Don't think Liverpool are as bad as some on hear are saying, look at the performance they put in against Spurs they were brilliant that night, as they were earlier in the season.
.
		
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Problem with Liverpool is consistency.
Play a blinder against Spurs but get taken to the cleaners by Leicester - as Klopp said, they let Leicester be the Leicester of last season..
After two weeks off they should have been sharp and ready to go...


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## Papas1982 (Feb 28, 2017)

I don't buy into this idea that Liverpool need all these 70m players. Start of the season and with their 20/30m players they were competing. The length of the season and busy festive period has tested them. Klopp clearly showed strain and frustration at the frequency of the games. 

I feel they simply need more players. Two players for 70m would be less beneficial than 7x 20m players. They clearly like klopps ideas, but with just a little more variation and competition for places their seasons could improve.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 28, 2017)

With all this comment on Klopp, I do wonder how many who castigate him actually think that giving ALL existing squad players a chance to prove themselves before being shipped out is actually a good thing. I for one like the idea of all the squad being given the opportunity to prove their worth, youngsters especially.


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## Swingalot (Feb 28, 2017)

Brighton choking again in the Championship. Love it.


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## Slime (Feb 28, 2017)

Swingalot said:



			Brighton choking again in the Championship. Love it.
		
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If you're going to slag Brighton off, DO IT IN THE CORRECT THREAD!


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## Swingalot (Feb 28, 2017)

Slime said:



			If you're going to slag Brighton off, DO IT IN THE CORRECT THREAD! 

Click to expand...

Not a problem, I'll do it in all the threads if you like?


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## sawtooth (Feb 28, 2017)

If the truth is told there is very little difference between Rodgers and Klopp. The problem is finance and Liverpool are doing pretty much as well as they can expect without spending a bomb more.

The cost of replacing Milner, Matip, Mignolet, Lucas and probably Sturridge as well will be astronomical unless Klopp can  uncover some bargains from somewhere.

Not sure who bought who but Rodgers had Sturridge ( when he seemed to stay fit), Suarez, Sterling , and others. Good players for not a lot of money. Klopp needs to do something similar. But you see how fast a good side can evaporate as Suarez and Sterling soon left and Gerrard retired, etc

It's not an easy job to be fair.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 28, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			If the truth is told there is very little difference between Rodgers and Klopp. The problem is finance and Liverpool are doing pretty much as well as they can expect without spending a bomb more.

The cost of replacing Milner, Matip, Mignolet, Lucas and probably Sturridge as well will be astronomical unless Klopp can  uncover some bargains from somewhere.

Not sure who bought who but Rodgers had Sturridge ( when he seemed to stay fit), Suarez, Sterling , and others. Good players for not a lot of money. Klopp needs to do something similar. But you see how fast a good side can evaporate as Suarez and Sterling soon left and Gerrard retired, etc

It's not an easy job to be fair.
		
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I see you have reappeared- thought you might be in hiding after we didn't see you after the mauling Arsenal got 

It's quite clear from your statement that you don't know the truth - especially when it comes to comparing Klopp and Rodgers. They are vastly different in every way possible 

Why would we need to replace Matip ? He was only bought in the summer and has shown to be a very good player , certainly doesn't need to be astronomical to strengthen some areas. Certainly been a lot of complete nonsense posted. 

As for Leicester game - we were shocking apart from the goal nothing much positive to find , we lost we move on. As for Leicester - where was that Vardy running , Mahrez trickery and dribbles , effort and determination when Raneri was in charge - those players should be ashamed of themselves


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## sawtooth (Feb 28, 2017)

I think they are similar in the sense that they are capable of achieving the same degree of success at Liverpool. 

Say what you want to say but at the end of the day facts don't lie. Both managers that are in every way massively different (as you will say) are pretty much neck and neck results wise.

Good luck in your quest for world domination, I'm not blaming Klopp i just think that he is swimming against the tide that's all.


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## Lincoln Quaker (Feb 28, 2017)

huds1475 said:



			Very enjoyable final, both teams should get credit for an open game. Wouldn't have begrudged Southampton a victory if it had panned out that way.

Would hope neutrals enjoyed it too, a bit of everything for everyone, even some controversy for the bindippers to take back to their holes :thup:
		
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 WOW. A new low on the forum.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 28, 2017)

huds1475 said:



			We all have different names for things Phil. Am sure your mob have names for us too...

Apologies if you're offended.
		
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It's a pathetic saying that is reserved for the 13 year old keyboard warriors on the club forums ! Not everyone using derogatory names.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 28, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			It's ok critisising the defence and Klopp, but we thought Sahko was the new round peg for the round hole, only for him to create issues off the pitch which Klopp had to address and assert his authority. Sadly that means the search is on again.
Dont forget the lieks of Flanagan will be back next season after his loan spell to strengthen and fully recover .
		
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Sakho was a problem yes but Alex Ferguson didn't get rid of Cantona straight away when he kicked the fan because he waited to do what was best for United.


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## huds1475 (Feb 28, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's a pathetic saying that is reserved for the 13 year old keyboard warriors on the club forums ! Not everyone using derogatory names.
		
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It's pretty common where I come from Phil. I've lived in Liverpool for 3 years and been called much worse. Stood at Old Trafford and heard much worse during minutes silence for certain events.

If you were personally offended, I've apologised. Get over it and stop behaving like a 13 year old.


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 1, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sakho was a problem yes but Alex Ferguson didn't get rid of Cantona straight away when he kicked the fan because he waited to do what was best for United.
		
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No, but then Cantona didn't take to social media to throw mud around once he had been punished by the club and manager.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 1, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			No, but then Cantona didn't take to social media to throw mud around once he had been punished by the club and manager.
		
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Didnt stop Cantona taking 90k out of a certain fund though did it.


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 1, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Didnt stop Cantona taking 90k out of a certain fund though did it.
		
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Don't know.
My point is that repeated public bitching after being punished cannot be tolerated by a manager and has to be seen to be stamped on.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 1, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Don't know.
My point is that repeated public bitching after being punished cannot be tolerated by a manager and has to be seen to be stamped on.
		
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Well I for one won't argue with that, always gets my goat when players won't play for a manager ( especially when they have won the title.
On a lighter note, I see West Hams Council house has been shortlisted for Stadium of the year award. You cannot make it up. Must be a bad year for stadiums.


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## huds1475 (Mar 1, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			I see West Hams Council house has been shortlisted for Stadium of the year award. You cannot make it up. Must be a bad year for stadiums.
		
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LOL.

Have you bought yours back from GMC yet?


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 1, 2017)

huds1475 said:



			It's pretty common where I come from Phil. I've lived in Liverpool for 3 years and been called much worse. Stood at Old Trafford and heard much worse during minutes silence for certain events.

If you were personally offended, I've apologised. Get over it and stop behaving like a 13 year old.
		
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So because scum use certain phrases, its ok then?

Other scousers use terrible words to describe mancs, but it doesn't mean that I use them. Its called respect, and making your own standards. Do you think a scouser living in Manchester would be welcomed with open arms? It's obviously left a lasting, bitter and twisted scar, which you obviously cant get over, or at least don't want to. 

We have a great thing going on in the NW, everyone has always been made welcome no matter what creed, colour, gender, footy team etc We all have respect for each other and have become great mates over the 3-4 years that we have known each other, and long may it continue.

However, you continually snipe and post perjorative words about scousers and yesterday was way across the line - and it was directed at us on here. Your nice as pie to us in person, but it changes on-line. Its not just the scousers you've upset on here with some of your antics, which is maybe why you sign up for every meet in the UK, although seldom finally attend.

I didn't see a sincere apology, and don't want one, as this has been more of a catalogue of insults, but don't be expecting to ever be invited to something that I organise,  although I know you'll say your not bothered........

You only have yourself to blame, and don't want to get into more of a slanging match (so take to PM if you want), but maybe a life lesson to learn for you is to not tar everyone with the same brush. I've tried to avoid this thread for over a month because of the toxicity of what this once fine thread has become, and this only re-inforces it.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 1, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			So because scum use certain phrases, its ok then?

Other scousers use terrible words to describe mancs, but it doesn't mean that I use them. Its called respect, and making your own standards. Do you think a scouser living in Manchester would be welcomed with open arms? It's obviously left a lasting, bitter and twisted scar, which you obviously cant get over, or at least don't want to. 

We have a great thing going on in the NW, everyone has always been made welcome no matter what creed, colour, gender, footy team etc We all have respect for each other and have become great mates over the 3-4 years that we have known each other, and long may it continue.

However, you continually snipe and post perjorative words about scousers and yesterday was way across the line - and it was directed at us on here. Your nice as pie to us in person, but it changes on-line. Its not just the scousers you've upset on here with some of your antics, which is maybe why you sign up for every meet in the UK, although seldom finally attend.

I didn't see a sincere apology, and don't want one, as this has been more of a catalogue of insults, but don't be expecting to ever be invited to something that I organise,  although I know you'll say your not bothered........

You only have yourself to blame, and don't want to get into more of a slanging match (so take to PM if you want), but maybe a life lesson to learn for you is to not tar everyone with the same brush. I've tried to avoid this thread for over a month because of the toxicity of what this once fine thread has become, and this only re-inforces it.
		
Click to expand...

The mans apologised get over it.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 1, 2017)

http://www.thesportbible.com/footba...n-twitter-beef-with-leicester-player-20170301


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## Papas1982 (Mar 1, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			So because scum use certain phrases, its ok then?

Other scousers use terrible words to describe mancs, but it doesn't mean that I use them. Its called respect, and making your own standards. Do you think a scouser living in Manchester would be welcomed with open arms? It's obviously left a lasting, bitter and twisted scar, which you obviously cant get over, or at least don't want to. 

We have a great thing going on in the NW, everyone has always been made welcome no matter what creed, colour, gender, footy team etc We all have respect for each other and have become great mates over the 3-4 years that we have known each other, and long may it continue.

However, you continually snipe and post *perjorative* words about scousers and yesterday was way across the line - and it was directed at us on here. Your nice as pie to us in person, but it changes on-line. Its not just the scousers you've upset on here with some of your antics, which is maybe why you sign up for every meet in the UK, although seldom finally attend.

I didn't see a sincere apology, and don't want one, as this has been more of a catalogue of insults, but don't be expecting to ever be invited to something that I organise,  although I know you'll say your not bothered........

You only have yourself to blame, and don't want to get into more of a slanging match (so take to PM if you want), but maybe a life lesson to learn for you is to not tar everyone with the same brush. I've tried to avoid this thread for over a month because of the toxicity of what this once fine thread has become, and this only re-inforces it.
		
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That's going straight in my dictionary corner! 

It come's to something when I have to google a word from a conversation about football.


Having met a lot of new faces this last few days. It's quite apparent that behind the light hearted banter those that are willing to face up are all a good laugh. 

If you wouldn't say it to someones face, don't type it on your keyboard!


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## Kellfire (Mar 1, 2017)

I would call a Liverpool fan a bin-dipper to his face and expect them to give banter back. It seems to me that Phil has massively overreacted here though I get there is previous.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 1, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			I would call a Liverpool fan a bin-dipper to his face and expect them to give banter back. It seems to me that Phil has massively overreacted here though I get there is previous.
		
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It wasn't necessarily just aimed at this one occasion. Or just in defence of the Liverpool fans. 

Just that hat to me, there are clearly a bunch of decent folk on here. Until this bloody thread!


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## Tashyboy (Mar 1, 2017)

Well here's me sat thinking what's all the fuss about coz I have not got a clue what a bin dipper is. thought he was a new signing for a prem club when I first read it &#128513;


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## stokie_93 (Mar 1, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			I've tried to avoid this thread for over a month because of the toxicity of what this once fine thread has become, and this only re-inforces it.
		
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.

Couldn't agree more with this Phil.

Too much slanging and childish behaviour over the game. 

I can accept Stoke are horrendous so it's fine


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## Fish (Mar 1, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			It wasn't necessarily just aimed at this one occasion. Or just in defence of the Liverpool fans. 

Just that hat to me, there are clearly a bunch of decent folk on here. *Until this bloody thread!*

Click to expand...

I know, who the hell started it


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## Papas1982 (Mar 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			I know, who the hell started it 

Click to expand...

Probably some trouble maker!


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## sawtooth (Mar 1, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			If you wouldn't say it to someones face, don't type it on your keyboard!
		
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Or better still don't say it at all.

Like Pete I avoid this thread at times because it just gets ridiculous. I have never resorted to name calling but have been on the receiving end a few times.

I didn't think that personal insults were tolerated? Anyway well said Pete, but there has been an apology already in case you may have missed it. Which is more than what I got &#128535;

Upside is that I learnt 2 new words this week. &#128077;


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## pokerjoke (Mar 1, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Probably some trouble maker!
		
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No some golf hacker from the midlands[he hates that]


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## Papas1982 (Mar 1, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			No some golf hacker from the midlands[he hates that]

Click to expand...

After i won us half a point at the weekend. 
I can't really comment.


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## anotherdouble (Mar 1, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			After i won us half a point at the weekend. 
I can't really comment.



Click to expand...

:cheers::whoo:ne:


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## Fish (Mar 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Or better still don't say it at all.

Like Pete I avoid this thread at times because it just gets ridiculous. I have never resorted to name calling but have been on the receiving end a few times.

I didn't think that personal insults were tolerated? Anyway well said Pete, but there has been an apology already in case you may have missed it. Which is more than what I got &#128535;
		
Click to expand...

If that's aimed at me why would I apologise, If I've said (written) something it's because I meant it at that time and would confidently say it to your face if you were saying the same things to me in person.

You do your fair share of baiting and can't resist bringing Chelsea and its wealth into your posts that have nothing to do with Chelsea at that time, you've been accused by mny on here for having an obsession against a couple of teams, but when you're on the receiving end you don't like it, well boo hoo 
	




sawtooth said:



			Upside is that I learnt 2 new words this week. &#128077;
		
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what were they, perjorative & knob :rofl:


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## Fish (Mar 1, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			No some golf hacker from the midlands[he hates that]

Click to expand...







Papas1982 said:



			After i won us half a point at the weekend. 
I can't really comment.



Click to expand...

That was a very important half at the time, every little helps :smirk:


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## Tashyboy (Mar 1, 2017)

Well seeing as this thread is about football, I am off to the footy in about 20 mins.


 I know, ave won today's boring post award coz it's upset no one. &#128513;


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## Fish (Mar 1, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Well seeing as this thread is about football, I am off to the footy in about 20 mins.


 I know, ave won today's boring post award coz it's upset no one. &#128513;
		
Click to expand...

How long does it take you to get their, it's a 7.45pm kick off?

Come on you Terriers


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## jp5 (Mar 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Or better still don't say it at all.

Like Pete I avoid this thread at times because it just gets ridiculous. I have never resorted to name calling but have been on the receiving end a few times.
		
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You've called me a Spurs fan, I don't know what could be more insulting than that!


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 1, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			With all this comment on Klopp, I do wonder how many who castigate him actually think that giving ALL existing squad players a chance to prove themselves before being shipped out is actually a good thing. I for one like the idea of all the squad being given the opportunity to prove their worth, youngsters especially.
		
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He gave the squad players a chance and we went out of two cups in a week.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			How long does it take you to get their, it's a 7.45pm kick off?

Come on you Terriers 
	View attachment 22090

Click to expand...

Depends on the traffic, drive over woodhead and it can be a mare. Village idiot is driving again so lad can have a few sherbets in Mary Dee's.
Plus gotta pick up me " Silva" shirt to wear for when I go to watch City in Monaco in a couple of weeks. 
That dog has a better tash than me, he is a thing of beauty.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 1, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			He gave the squad players a chance and we went out of two cups in a week.
		
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LOL, Just read your post and the Nivea advert has come on the telly where the girl gives Klopp the loser sign with finger and thumb.:rofl:


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## pbrown7582 (Mar 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			How long does it take you to get their, it's a 7.45pm kick off?

Come on you Terriers 
	View attachment 22090

Click to expand...

Not much more than half an hour because they all they live in M/cr


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## Fish (Mar 1, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			That dog has a better tash than me, he is a thing of beauty.
		
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That's my Max :thup:


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 1, 2017)

Rumour this morning was that City will put out a full strength team, or near enough, and Huddersfield may rest some players because of fixture congestion and they have a chance of promotion. Could be very one sided if that is the case. I hope not as Huddersfield are in good form and they could give a good account of themselves. Can't say I will both watching it to be honest. Enjoy the match Tashy :thup:


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 1, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			LOL, Just read your post and the Nivea advert has come on the telly where the girl gives Klopp the loser sign with finger and thumb.:rofl:
		
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How many prem managers would do an advert calling him a loser some people will do anything for money.?
I know it's a joke but!


----------



## Fish (Mar 1, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Rumour this morning was that City will put out a full strength team, or near enough, and Huddersfield may rest some players because of fixture congestion and they have a chance of promotion. Could be very one sided if that is the case. I hope not as Huddersfield are in good form and they could give a good account of themselves. Can't say I will both watching it to be honest. Enjoy the match Tashy :thup:
		
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Huddersfield must concentrate on the play-offs IMO, a cup run is good but there comes a time when the possibility of promotion has to take precedence. They can/could compete as any team can on the day but Huddersfield's problem currently is not getting enough goals, they simply don't score enough when they are dominating, but hey, the FA Cup is full of surprises and they've done brilliantly to get this far and a trip to Man City will be great for the players & fans.


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 1, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			How many prem managers would do an advert calling him a loser some people will do anything for money.?
I know it's a joke but!
		
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Perhaps he's happy to show he has a sense of humour


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## anotherdouble (Mar 1, 2017)

Reports starting to emerge that Mr Conte could be off to Inter at the end of the season. That not good news.


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## jp5 (Mar 1, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Reports starting to emerge that Mr Conte could be off to Inter at the end of the season. That not good news.
		
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After one season at Chelsea? Wouldn't have thought so!


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 1, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Perhaps he's happy to show he has a sense of humour

Click to expand...

I met Alex Fergusen once and he was a really nice bloke great sense of humour but would he have done this ad?
I don't think so.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 1, 2017)

Why would he do that? Unless he wants to go back to Italy, homesick, it makes no sense. Here he has a top team, not ageing, a budget to compete with the best, he is a roaring success on a whopping salary. It's 1st of March, not 1st of April.


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 1, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			I met Alex Fergusen once and he was a really nice bloke great sense of humour but would he have done this ad?
I don't think so.
		
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But Fergusen's public persona was nothing like your private expierience.
In the world of the modern football player/manager, I think Klopp is a breath of fresh air, and I for one have no problem with him showing he can join everyone else in having a laugh at his own expense. 
At least it's not like Rogers and the "inside LFC" program, that was worse.


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## anotherdouble (Mar 1, 2017)

jp5 said:



			After one season at Chelsea? Wouldn't have thought so!
		
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I have seen Â£51M over 4 years


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## sawtooth (Mar 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			If that's aimed at me why would I apologise, If I've said (written) something it's because I meant it at that time and would confidently say it to your face if you were saying the same things to me in person.

You do your fair share of baiting and can't resist bringing Chelsea and its wealth into your posts that have nothing to do with Chelsea at that time, you've been accused by mny on here for having an obsession against a couple of teams, but when you're on the receiving end you don't like it, well boo hoo 
	View attachment 22088



what were they, perjorative & knob :rofl:
		
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I don't care what you post about Arsenal , groundhog day; top 4 trophy, and all that. I really honestly  couldn't care less. No need to apologise I agree. I give back in equal measure don't worry about that. After all Arsenal are superior in almost every way &#128077; However, if what you read winds you up so much that you cross the line either stop posting so much rubbish about Arsenal or put me on ignore so you don't have to read my response.

Where you and I differ is that you resort to personal insults and threats. I don't go there and there is absolutely no need for it on a golf forum. It's not intimidating in the slightest , I just don't think it belongs on here. 

Keep the banter going but keep it civil eh?


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 1, 2017)

Isn't it just as well Trump, Putin, Kim Jong Un and Xi Jinping don't support different premiership teams......


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## Junior (Mar 1, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Isn't it just as well Trump, Putin, Kim Jong Un and Xi Jinping don't support different premiership teams......
		
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:rofl:  Now THAT is a 4 ball.  Reckon they would let someone play through ????????


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 1, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			But Fergusen's public persona was nothing like your private expierience.
In the world of the modern football player/manager, I think Klopp is a breath of fresh air, and I for one have no problem with him showing he can join everyone else in having a laugh at his own expense. 
At least it's not like Rogers and the "inside LFC" program, that was worse.
		
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I can see your point but am afraid this young girl has her finger on the pulse with some of our preformances lately.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 1, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Why would he do that? Unless he wants to go back to Italy, homesick, it makes no sense. Here he has a top team, not ageing, a budget to compete with the best, he is a roaring success on a whopping salary. It's 1st of March, not 1st of April.
		
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He might not like the weather.
if I could play football in London or Milan it would not be in the pissing down rain and cold.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 1, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			He might not like the weather.
if I could play football in London or Milan it would not be in the pissing down rain and cold.
		
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Weather, culture, language etc I totally accept. For footballing reasons, at the moment, I would not have. It is not as if Inter are currently a powerhouse, they are not. If he wanted to return to his homeland however then that is an understandable reason. Northern Italy is not always great weather wise by the way. Better than the weather I get up here but it still gets soggy there.


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## stokie_93 (Mar 1, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Weather, culture, language etc I totally accept. For footballing reasons, at the moment, I would not have. It is not as if Inter are currently a powerhouse, they are not. If he wanted to return to his homeland however then that is an understandable reason. Northern Italy is not always great weather wise by the way. Better than the weather I get up here but it still gets soggy there.
		
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.

I've seen Inter linked to A LOT of players at the moment, I think they're trying to do a full rebuild to get back up the table. 

Italy like German football is a 1 horse race currently with Juve dominating since both the Milan squads have gone downhill.
Roma try and push every season but don't have the quality to get past Juve.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 1, 2017)

Have Inter come into money? Is a rich new backer flashing the cash? I suppose that would make sense then. A chance to re-build a fallen giant with some money to back you up.


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## Fish (Mar 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I don't care what you post about Arsenal , groundhog day; top 4 trophy, and all that. I really honestly  couldn't care less. No need to apologise I agree. I give back in equal measure don't worry about that. After all Arsenal are superior in almost every way &#128077; However, if what you read winds you up so much that you cross the line *either stop posting so much rubbish about Arsenal* or put me on ignore so you don't have to read my response.

Where you and I differ is that you resort to personal insults and threats. I don't go there and there is absolutely no need for it on a golf forum. It's not intimidating in the slightest , I just don't think it belongs on here. 

Keep the banter going but keep it civil eh?
		
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What rubbish is that, everything I post is either immediately after a game I've just watched and I'm giving my honest opinion as I see it, is that not what a forum is about?  However, when there's not a Chelsea game on you have to constantly involve Chelsea or Liverpool with remarks that border on jealousy with your constant ramblings about wealth or it's just pure infatuation, so, I wholeheartedly disagree with your _Arsenal are superior in almost every way_ comment or are you also now just clutching and holding on to your history comfort blanket, but like all old blankets they need refreshing or they become flea bitten rags, which just about sums up Arsenal for me, so you keep on clutching it tight :smirk:   

I shared some beers with a few Gooners over the last few days, some very old school and staunch supporters who idolised Wenger _at first_, but not 1 of them agree with you and all of them now are starting to or actually do hate the man now for the destruction he is causing at _their club_.  His sell by date has firmly expired and going from an idol to being hated takes some doing, but Wenger has cracked it in spade :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Or better still don't say it at all.

Like Pete* I avoid this thread at times because it just gets ridiculous. *I have never resorted to name calling but have been on the receiving end a few times.

I didn't think that personal insults were tolerated? Anyway well said Pete, but there has been an apology already in case you may have missed it. Which is more than what I got &#128535;

Upside is that I learnt 2 new words this week. &#128077;
		
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You avoiding the thread seem to be at the same time as Arsenal got mullered by Bayern - you seemed to disappear after that ? Have you had chance to reflect on that performance.


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## stokie_93 (Mar 1, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Have Inter come into money? Is a rich new backer flashing the cash? I suppose that would make sense then. A chance to re-build a fallen giant with some money to back you up.
		
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.

They got taken over by a chinese firm last summer mate and made a few signings. 
Joao Mario was around 40 million euros, Gabriel Barbosa around Â£25 mil, Candreva for around Â£20 mil and Jovetic on a permanent from City (Who's now out on loan again).

Looks like they're looking to build upwards with money to blow.


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## Fish (Mar 1, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You avoiding the thread seem to be at the same time as Arsenal got mullered by Bayern - you seemed to disappear after that ? Have you had chance to reflect on that performance.
		
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It's selective avoidance, nothing to do with anyones posts, its all based on results, you only have to look at posts when Arsenal have had a bad day and the Ostrich impression is in full bloom, mind you, I'm not sure if the head disappears in the sand or.....


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## fundy (Mar 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			It's selective avoidance, nothing to do with anyones posts, *its all based on results,* you only have to look at posts when Arsenal have had a bad day and the Ostrich impression is in full bloom, mind you, I'm not sure if the head disappears in the sand or.....

Click to expand...

what like yours did for most of last season  good to have you back though


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## Fish (Mar 1, 2017)

fundy said:



			what like yours did for most of last season  good to have you back though 

Click to expand...

To be honest Steve I wasn't posting a lot across the whole forum for various reasons but none of the reasons were football related.

I know you missed my constructive appraisals though  :smirk:


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## sawtooth (Mar 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			What rubbish is that, everything I post is either immediately after a game I've just watched and I'm giving my honest opinion as I see it, is that not what a forum is about?  However, when there's not a Chelsea game on you have to constantly involve Chelsea or Liverpool with remarks that border on jealousy with your constant ramblings about wealth or it's just pure infatuation, so, I wholeheartedly disagree with your _Arsenal are superior in almost every way_ comment or are you also now just clutching and holding on to your history comfort blanket, but like all old blankets they need refreshing or they become flea bitten rags, which just about sums up Arsenal for me, so you keep on clutching it tight :smirk:   

I shared some beers with a few Gooners over the last few days, some very old school and staunch supporters who idolised Wenger _at first_, but not 1 of them agree with you and all of them now are starting to or actually do hate the man now for the destruction he is causing at _their club_.  His sell by date has firmly expired and going from an idol to being hated takes some doing, but Wenger has cracked it in spade :rofl:
		
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That's better keep it clean.

Talking of history, Chelsea's started in 2003.

A few gooners that you know is not representative of the whole fan base.&#128077;


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## Fish (Mar 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			That's better keep it clean.

Talking of history, Chelsea's started in 2003.

A few gooners that you know is not representative of the whole fan base.&#128077;
		
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Please take the time to watch this and educate yourself...

[video=youtube_share;_Q94jotgja4]https://youtu.be/_Q94jotgja4[/video]




sawtooth said:



			That's better keep it clean.
		
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and this is extremely condescending!!!


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## sawtooth (Mar 1, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You avoiding the thread seem to be at the same time as Arsenal got mullered by Bayern - you seemed to disappear after that ? Have you had chance to reflect on that performance.
		
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Hard to explain that performance. 1-1 at half time and arguably should have been ahead. Lost Kos to injury and it all unravelled.  Bayern will beat bigger teams than Arsenal.

I don't think that a Liverpool supporter is in a position to mock do you? Even if you do have the best manager in the world and are on the way back &#128567;


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## anotherdouble (Mar 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			That's better keep it clean.

Talking of history, Chelsea's started in 2003.

A few gooners that you know is not representative of the whole fan base.&#128077;
		
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Don't no who my grandad took me to see in the 60's then if Chelsea were founded in 2003. I trusted my grandad and now I have just found out he was lying to my nan, mum and dad and me all the time because he told everybody we went to see Chelsea play. My whole life has been a lie


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## fundy (Mar 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



*Hard to explain that performance*. 1-1 at half time and arguably should have been ahead. Lost Kos to injury and it all unravelled.  Bayern will beat bigger teams than Arsenal.

I don't think that a Liverpool supporter is in a position to mock do you? Even if you do have the best manager in the world and are on the way back &#128567;
		
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Was ridiculously easy for almost everyone who watched the game. Bar a 15 minute spell in the first half we were by far inferior to them in every area on the park. We picked 2 central defensive midfielders who Bayern bypassed with ease exposing the defense, Thiago ran the show and we barely put a foot on him all game. Going forward Ozil barely had a kick, allowing them to double up on Sanchez and as per usual we had no plan B until it was far too late.

Remove the blinkers!!!!!


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## sawtooth (Mar 1, 2017)

fundy said:



			Was ridiculously easy for almost everyone who watched the game. Bar a 15 minute spell in the first half we were by far inferior to them in every area on the park. We picked 2 central defensive midfielders who Bayern bypassed with ease exposing the defense, Thiago ran the show and we barely put a foot on him all game. Going forward Ozil barely had a kick, allowing them to double up on Sanchez and as per usual we had no plan B until it was far too late.

Remove the blinkers!!!!!
		
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Can you explain the difference between the first and second half?

I don't understand this blinkers term. We were second best but where is the shame in that against one of the very best teams in world football? In their own back yard?

If you wanted a 3 nil win to Arsenal can I suggest FiFA 2016 or Football manager. For now though let's get back to reality.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



*Hard to explain that performance*. 1-1 at half time and arguably should have been ahead. Lost Kos to injury and it all unravelled.  Bayern will beat bigger teams than Arsenal.

I don't think that a Liverpool supporter is in a position to mock do you? Even if you do have the best manager in the world and are on the way back &#128567;
		
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Really ? I suspect every single person can explain it - it was your stereotypical Arsenal last 16 KO performance - that same as the last decade - poor selection and poor tactics


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## sawtooth (Mar 1, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Really ? I suspect every single person can explain it - it was your stereotypical Arsenal last 16 KO performance - that same as the last decade - poor selection and poor tactics
		
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It's not easy though is it mate. 

Look how your team is struggling to qualify let alone lose in the last 16.

On your last effort you went out at the group stage did you not? 

Still Klopp will make it all better&#128077;


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## Fish (Mar 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Can you explain the difference between the first and second half?
		
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Easy, you were lucky and hanging on at 1-1 in the first half and then imploded and were humiliated in the second half to finish 5-1.

You lacked direction, fight and leadership, in fact I can't recognise any leader in your team/squad, who is your captain by the way, oh yeah, it was given eventually to Gibbs :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			It's not easy though is it mate. 

Look how your team is struggling to qualify let alone lose in the last 16.

On your last effort you went out at the group stage did you not? 

Still Klopp will make it all better&#128077;
		
Click to expand...

Not talking about Liverpool - talking about Arsenal once again for the tenth year in a row I reckon will be out of the CL at last 16. And you think it's hard to explain ? Surely after a decade it might be easy to explain and time for something to change yes ?


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## Fish (Mar 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			It's not easy though is it mate. 

Look how your team is struggling to qualify let alone lose in the last 16.

On your last effort you went out at the group stage did you not? 

Still Klopp will make it all better&#128077;
		
Click to expand...

But it isn't about Liverpool is it, again your deflecting, Liverpool haven't been constantly in the top 4 and in a position to build or had a settled management and players, but you have, for me Arsenal have no excuses but the bit you just don't get or won't accept is, I don't think Wenger or the board is that bothered, I think they lack ambition and SETTLE for that top 4 position as a safety net year on year!  

It was always the stadium was an excuse but even you stated before this season started that was not now going to be case and Wenger would spend, well did he, if he did I missed it?


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## fundy (Mar 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Can you explain the difference between the first and second half?

I don't understand this blinkers term. We were second best but where is the shame in that against one of the very best teams in world football? In their own back yard?

If you wanted a 3 nil win to Arsenal can I suggest FiFA 2016 or Football manager. For now though let's get back to reality.
		
Click to expand...

The blinkers term relates to you refusing to use your eyes and believe what they are telling you rather than constantly thinking we were unlucky, our time is coming, hard to explain that performance and all the other comments you make which are so far detached to what is actually happening on the pitch.

We lack a proper defensive midfielder, need another top class centre half, miss Cazorla and somehow have left ourselves with little cover for him, we lack size and fight in midfield. And above all, we lack a proper leader. What makes this worse is most of this has been an issue for most of the last 10 years.

Wrt to Wenger, I travelled home and away (incl Europe) for his early years. He was the messiah and as good as I will likely see at Arsenal in my lifetime. There were 2 great teams (the first part inherited from GG), based around big strong athletes who could play, supplemented by a couple of top class players going forward. There were leaders at the back and in midfield, actually all over the park. (think Adams, Bould, Viera, Petit, Henry etc etc)

It all changed in one game when we failed to win the champions league against Barcelonas tippy tappy brand of football. Suddenly out went strength, size, power and in came small technical players, most of who just havent cut it in the premier league. Since this change we have not had a leader worthy of the name and more often than not against the better sides been outfought in midfield. And year after year we repeat the same with little sign of it changing


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## huds1475 (Mar 1, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			So because scum use certain phrases, its ok then?

Other scousers use terrible words to describe mancs, but it doesn't mean that I use them. Its called respect, and making your own standards. Do you think a scouser living in Manchester would be welcomed with open arms? It's obviously left a lasting, bitter and twisted scar, which you obviously cant get over, or at least don't want to. 

We have a great thing going on in the NW, everyone has always been made welcome no matter what creed, colour, gender, footy team etc We all have respect for each other and have become great mates over the 3-4 years that we have known each other, and long may it continue.

However, you continually snipe and post perjorative words about scousers and yesterday was way across the line - and it was directed at us on here. Your nice as pie to us in person, but it changes on-line. Its not just the scousers you've upset on here with some of your antics, which is maybe why you sign up for every meet in the UK, although seldom finally attend.

I didn't see a sincere apology, and don't want one, as this has been more of a catalogue of insults, but don't be expecting to ever be invited to something that I organise,  although I know you'll say your not bothered........

You only have yourself to blame, and don't want to get into more of a slanging match (so take to PM if you want), but maybe a life lesson to learn for you is to not tar everyone with the same brush. I've tried to avoid this thread for over a month because of the toxicity of what this once fine thread has become, and this only re-inforces it.
		
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There's a large amount of assumption in your post Peter. You've taken some very simple statements, added your own theories, and come up with some kind of conspiracy.

That said, you're very entitled to your own opinions, and to express them however you choose.

Your pomposity however, is laughable, and certainly pressed my chuckle-button. I haven't laughed that much since your 'Ask Linda' fiasco.

No need for PM's.


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## sawtooth (Mar 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			Easy, you were lucky and hanging on at 1-1 in the first half and then imploded and were humiliated in the second half to finish 5-1.

You lacked direction, fight and leadership, in fact I can't recognise any leader in your team/squad, who is your captain by the way, oh yeah, it was given eventually to Gibbs :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

We lacked a leader when Koscielny went off I concede that. Up to the point that he got injured we looked pretty solid.

It's true that we don't have enough leaders on the pitch, something that Wenger or the next man coming in will no doubt look at. 

Losing a player like Kos can be very destabilising. Easily one of the best CB in the PL , most teams would miss him. 

Spurs miss Vertonghen or Alderweider when they don't play.

Chelsea will miss Cahill or Luiz .

Liverpool will miss Matip, actually they wouldn't  because he is not very good.&#128512;


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## guest100718 (Mar 1, 2017)

Anyone esle going to Spurs V Millwall?

COYS!


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## fundy (Mar 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			We lacked a leader when Koscielny went off I concede that. Up to the point that he got injured we looked pretty solid.

It's true that we don't have enough leaders on the pitch, something that Wenger or the next man coming in will no doubt look at. 

Losing a player like Kos can be very destabilising. Easily one of the best CB in the PL , most teams would miss him. 

Spurs miss Vertonghen or Alderweider when they don't play.

Chelsea will miss Cahill or Luiz .

Liverpool will miss Matip, actually they wouldn't  because he is not very good.&#128512;
		
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youre using a convenient excuse there Sawtooth. I rate Kos but to call him a leader is very generous. What do you think the score wouldve been if he had played 90 minutes? Why dont we have decent cover? Why hasnt Wenger addressed the leader issue by now?


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## sawtooth (Mar 1, 2017)

fundy said:



			youre using a convenient excuse there Sawtooth. I rate Kos but to call him a leader is very generous. What do you think the score wouldve been if he had played 90 minutes? Why dont we have decent cover? Why hasnt Wenger addressed the leader issue by now?
		
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No idea but it would not have been 5-1 that's for sure.

Maybe he thought that he had with the purchases. Back to the drawing board though probably. People will laugh but I still reckon Holding will turn out great for us and probably England too.  The main difference between him and Stones right now is about Â£48M  (cue laughter)


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## Tashyboy (Mar 1, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			He might not like the weather.
if I could play football in London or Milan it would not be in the pissing down rain and cold.
		
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I take it you have never been to Milan. Coz when it rains the cats and dogs are massive and when it snows. Hella bells and buckets of blood. If its the weather he is staying in london


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## Fish (Mar 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Chelsea will miss Cahill or Luiz .
		
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But we wouldn't as we have  just as good if not better with Zouma in the wings and also Nathan Ake, that's the difference if you want to win things, your bench has to be strong and has to have the ability and quality to change the game and replace suspended, injured or rested players, we have that and you don't.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 1, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			Anyone esle going to Spurs V Millwall?

COYS!
		
Click to expand...

why would you unless there is a cheap offer on facial reconstruction.


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## guest100718 (Mar 1, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			why would you unless there is a cheap offer on facial reconstruction.
		
Click to expand...


Ah we'll be fine.


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## pbrown7582 (Mar 1, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			Anyone esle going to Spurs V Millwall?

COYS!
		
Click to expand...

About 3000 of the Mets finest.....


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## ger147 (Mar 1, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			About 3000 of the Mets finest.....
		
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Might be better inviting Hollande's "accidental" sniper...


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## Fish (Mar 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			No idea but it would not have been 5-1 that's for sure.

Maybe he thought that he had with the purchases. Back to the drawing board though probably. People will laugh but I still reckon Holding will turn out great for us and probably England too.  The main difference between him and Stones right now is about Â£48M  (cue laughter)
		
Click to expand...

Ok, it might have been 3-1 or 2-1, but it's still a loss and Bayern score at will where ever they play, your tactics, formation and team selection was wrong and you have no cover, all that falls at the feet of Wenger, nobody else!


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 1, 2017)

huds1475 said:



			There's a large amount of assumption in your post Peter. You've taken some very simple statements, added your own theories, and come up with some kind of conspiracy.

That said, you're very entitled to your own opinions, and to express them however you choose.

Your pomposity however, is laughable, and certainly pressed my chuckle-button. I haven't laughed that much since your 'Ask Linda' fiasco.

No need for PM's.
		
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Just 4 paragraphs of drivel really.

You made a very offensive remark, which is on top of all the other sly digs, so not in isolation. No conspiracy there. 

TIll next time.:thup:


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 1, 2017)

Nice to see Victor Moses get a new contract. 
He's been quality this season.


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## Tarkus1212 (Mar 1, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Nice to see Victor Moses get a new contract. 
He's been quality this season.
		
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I'd rather see Courtois with a shiny new contract but you're right Moses has earned his.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 1, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			Anyone esle going to Spurs V Millwall?

COYS!
		
Click to expand...

Before that there is the big match at the weekend. Good test for both teams, Everton are the form team of 2017 &#128588;.


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## The Evertonian (Mar 2, 2017)

Reports this morning are that Louis Enrique is to step down as head coach of Barcelona at the end of the season.
Ronalds Revolution could be over before it's really even got going &#128553;
He's being tipped as Enriques successor....Everton that!


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## Tashyboy (Mar 2, 2017)

For those that had an early night City won 5-1.


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## Fish (Mar 2, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			For those that had an early night City won 5-1.
		
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A non  event in truth, a full strength city side against a much changed Terriers because as great that a cup run is their priority has to be to push for 2nd or the play offs as promotion must take precedence. 

Well done though &#128077;


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## stokie_93 (Mar 2, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Nice to see Victor Moses get a new contract. 
He's been quality this season.
		
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.

After seeing him at Stoke for a season, if you'd told me he'd playing RWB for Chelsea i'd have cried laughing.

He didn't have any defensive discipline at Stoke but then again we didn't have Kante/Matic and 3 brilliant CB's to cover for him. 

Don't get me wrong he was great for us and I was disappointed that he didn't sign up for us and thought he was taking a huge gamble. Fair play to the lad cause he's been brilliant this season and very good to see his performances rewarded.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 2, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			Reports this morning are that Louis Enrique is to step down as head coach of Barcelona at the end of the season.
Ronalds Revolution could be over before it's really even got going &#63017;
He's being tipped as Enriques successor....Everton that!
		
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I did wonder about that when I saw the news break last night. If they come for him he will go and who could blame him. I'd wish him luck and remind him to send us a few cast offs . Hopefully we will squeeze another year or two out of him though as he has us on the right track.


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## G.U.R (Mar 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I did wonder about that when I saw the news break last night. If they come for him he will go and who could blame him. I'd wish him luck and remind him to send us a few cast offs . Hopefully we will squeeze another year or two out of him though as he has us on the right track.
		
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If he starts saying not to worry he doesn't break contracts that's when to worry, just ask Southampton fans.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 2, 2017)

Oh, I know how he came to us so I am not going to play the loyalty card. To be fair, if someone offers you a move to Barcelona then you go. You would be a fool to turn it down.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I did wonder about that when I saw the news break last night. If they come for him he will go and who could blame him. I'd wish him luck and remind him to send us a few cast offs . Hopefully we will squeeze another year or two out of him though as he has us on the right track.
		
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He isn't going to Barca, we were told on here he's Wengers replacement, so we just have to wait until Arsenal and Arsene make a decision, then Barca can try!


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## Jensen (Mar 2, 2017)

Tarkus1212 said:



			I'd rather see Courtois with a shiny new contract but you're right Moses has earned his.
		
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I'm not overly convinced by Coutois, he has no presence about him and think he's pretty average. However as a Spurs fan I'm not bothered, merely speaking as an ex keeper. De Gea has more presence about him, but noting like Peter Schmecial. Young Jordan Pickford at Sunderland looks a very promising keeper, great shot stopper, commands his box and kicks the ball very well. As long as he keeps developing he could really be a top keeper.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 2, 2017)

Not many have a presence like Schmeical to be fair. The question with Pickford is whether he is looking good as he has a lot of shots to save and nobody condems him if a few go in or is he genuinely that good. There have been a number of keepers over the years that look the part in lower teams but don't stand up to scrutiny when they move to a bigger team. I hope he is that good, I'm a positive person and like people to do well.

As an ex-keeper would you have De Gea or Lloris as your number one?


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## Jensen (Mar 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			As an ex-keeper would you have De Gea or Lloris as your number one?
		
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Very tough question and in all honesty I can't decide. 

However going back to Courtois I think Peter Cech is a better keeper, he has more presence and commands his box more. Sadly these days post Schmeichael there aren't ANY keepers that command their boxes. 

Think my best all time keeper was Neville Southall when he was at Everton. A real presence who commanded his box and help them win the title in the 80's


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 2, 2017)

Ah, Big Nev (and blimey is he big now). Best keeper of my time but I am biased. Even a non Everton fan would have to accept he was a Grade A keeper, same as Shmeichael. For all his odd mistakes I would have Grobelaar up there as well. He would come for crosses that other keepers would never have considered. I agree, keepers don't tend to command any more. They seem happier to make saves rather than be pro-active.

Cech certainly was a better keeper than Courtois and maybe still is at times but the clock is inevitably ticking on him now so it is not fair to compare.

Going further afield I never fail to be impressed by Buffon. He has been a world class keeper for so many years.


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## stokie_93 (Mar 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Not many have a presence like Schmeical to be fair. The question with Pickford is whether he is looking good as he has a lot of shots to save and nobody condems him if a few go in or is he genuinely that good. There have been a number of keepers over the years that look the part in lower teams but don't stand up to scrutiny when they move to a bigger team. I hope he is that good, I'm a positive person and like people to do well.

As an ex-keeper would you have De Gea or Lloris as your number one?
		
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I'd have Butland who is hopefully going to be back very soon!


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## pbrown7582 (Mar 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I did wonder about that when I saw the news break last night. If they come for him he will go and who could blame him. I'd wish him luck and remind him to* send us a few cast offs *. Hopefully we will squeeze another year or two out of him though as he has us on the right track.
		
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haven't you already got a cast off arrangement in place with a club just down the East Lancs.... another one on his way soon.......


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## Fish (Mar 2, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Very tough question and in all honesty I can't decide. 

However going back to Courtois I think Peter Cech is a better keeper, he has more presence and commands his box more. Sadly these days post Schmeichael there aren't ANY keepers that command their boxes. 

Think my best all time keeper was Neville Southall when he was at Everton. A real presence who commanded his box and help them win the title in the 80's
		
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I think Ed De Goey was a huge presence in our goal and was a massive step up from the previous keepers we endured, I also think when Cudicini first arrived he commanded his box well and was a huge favorite at the bridge before he started to get a bit erratic and was rightly replaced by Peter, who like you, I rate higher than Courtois, his (Cechs) clean sheets throughout 2004/5 is legendary IMO, 10 on the belt and 24 in the season are both in the history books, he also has the most recorded clean sheets standing currently around 186 (162 at CFC) and will no doubt be the first keeper to break 200 :thup:


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 2, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			haven't you already got a cast off arrangement in place with a club just down the East Lancs.... another one on his way soon....... 

Click to expand...

No thanks. Not wanted &#128581;


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## Tashyboy (Mar 2, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Very tough question and in all honesty I can't decide. 

However going back to Courtois I think Peter Cech is a better keeper, he has more presence and commands his box more. Sadly these days post Schmeichael there aren't ANY keepers that command their boxes. 

Think my best all time keeper was Neville Southall when he was at Everton. A real presence who commanded his box and help them win the title in the 80's
		
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Having seen even quite a few excellent keepers this year at City, ( and none wearing a City shirt). Courtois has been head and shoulders above any keeper I have seen this year. in fact if memory serves me right Lloris had a shocker v City.
Courtois earned three points for Chelsea v City. I what could turn out to be a massive three points.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 2, 2017)

One of the most commanding keepers I saw was Dave Beasant. Huge man and a huge presence in a side full of big personalities. Fair old keeper too


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## Swingalot (Mar 2, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			About 3000 of the Mets finest.....
		
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And all will be busy.


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## pbrown7582 (Mar 3, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No thanks. Not wanted &#55357;&#56901;
		
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even on a free?  .......


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## The Evertonian (Mar 3, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			even on a free?  .......
		
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It's been mooted for a while now(on Merseyside) that there is a chance Rooney could finish his career at Everton. For a good 6 months or so I was totally against the idea, but I think I'm warming to it now.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 3, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			even on a free?  .......
		
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Wages are too big. Also one of the problems of Rooney is that he slows down the play now. We work well when we move at pace. He would distort our attack. No thanks.


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

United need to put some of these chances away or frustration might kick in, but Bournemouth had equally a good chance on the counter but slipped in the penalty box.

Think United were looking for a quick goal but as they slow down Bournemouth will come into the game more, can't see United keeping to this pace.


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

Jones is having a bit of a mare.....1-1 it is then :smirk:


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## Imurg (Mar 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			Jones is having a bit of a mare.....1-1 it is then :smirk:
		
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About time the sold him to Sunderland isn't it..?


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

There should be 2 red cards here, the first offence (stamp) went unnoticed but the retaliation with the elbow is shocking!!

The ref has bottled this totally and both players hopefully will be reprimanded by video evidence later.


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## Kellfire (Mar 4, 2017)

How can he bottle it if he didn't see it?

Awful from both players. A ban coming Zlatan's way.


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			How can he bottle it if he didn't see it?

Awful from both players. A ban coming Zlatan's way.
		
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There are enough officials out there to notice both those incidents, otherwise there even more useless, I don't believe he hasn't seen that elbow as he should be watching the ball and challenge!


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## anotherdouble (Mar 4, 2017)

The stamp was vicious but I can understand how it might have gone unnoticed but the retaliation use of the elbow should have been seen by 1 of the officials as it happened right where the ball was


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## MegaSteve (Mar 4, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			How can he bottle it if he didn't see it?

Awful from both players. A ban coming Zlatan's way.
		
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Both players deserve lengthy bans...

Hopefully that's what they get...


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			The stamp was vicious but I can understand how it might have gone unnoticed but the retaliation use of the elbow should have been seen by 1 of the officials as it happened right where the ball was
		
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I think there was clear intent with the stamp, but like you, I can understand how it could be missed as the ball had gone, but the elbow in retaliation was a shocker as again, there was clear intent, both should serve retrospective bans!


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## Papas1982 (Mar 4, 2017)

To both will get a ban. 

That being said. If someone stamps on you intentionally. I'd be amazed who wouldn't try and even it up. 

Ref lost his head there. 

Should be 10-9 now. 

Nit it sure what will happen re retro. As the stamp clearly wasn't seen. But he is looking at the elbow and bottles it. 

Could be a case of getting away away with it if he says he saw it. 

Most likely 3 for both. But the stamp is miles worse imo. I'd condemn my own player for the stamp whilst I'd not begrudge the elbow from a rival in those circumstance.


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## jp5 (Mar 4, 2017)

Should be two reds there and a lengthy ban for the Bournemouth bloke, that was shocking


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

Right lads, second half, we can stamp on people on the ground and elbow people in the face but whatever you do, don't push someone to the ground or you'll get sent off :rofl:


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## anotherdouble (Mar 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			Right lads, second half, we can stamp on people on the ground and elbow people in the face but whatever you do, don't push someone to the ground or you'll get sent off :rofl:
		
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:clap:


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

So your lieing motionless on the ground after being pole axed by Pogba and the ref just ignores your head injury until the ball goes out of play &#128563;&#129300;


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

I'm sorry but how much is Pogba worth?


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## One Planer (Mar 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			I'm sorry but how much is Pogba worth?
		
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I'll have a look down the back of my sofa and make an offer :thup:


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## One Planer (Mar 4, 2017)

How many million for an air shot :rofl:


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## Junior (Mar 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			I'm sorry but how much is Pogba worth?
		
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Not a lot.  Shocker of a day.


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

That's cost me 2 acca's &#128545;

What a nasty niggly match and 11 men with a penalty couldn't put away 10 men, they've got no chance of top 4 if thry can't win their home games, lots to do at OT yet and Pogba isn't the answer.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 4, 2017)

My boring day shopping with Missis T has just turned into a lovely days shopping seeing that result. 
What a lovely day it is today. The bees are buzzing and the birds are singing.


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## Slime (Mar 4, 2017)

Zlatan should have been sent off, no doubt, but the head stamp was absolutely disgusting!
Arter should also have seen a second red too.
Pogba had a shocker, Zlatan is allowed a bad game though.
United should have been 3 up in the first ten minutes but, as has happened before, the oppo goalie turns into Manuel Neuer!
Bournemouth were extremely defensive and physical, but that's part of football and it was up to United to overcome this ...................... they didn't, which is worrying.
Instead, they allowed themselves to get drawn in to a war when they could have easily played their way to three points.
Sixthchester United have much work to do.
Can't believe how much we miss Mkhitaryan!!


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

Rooney just blatantly lied in his interview, he did not see it, he was appealing to the ref with his back to the stamp when it happened and then conveniently says he didn't see the elbow, he does himself no favours, the camera never lies.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 4, 2017)

Nasty stamp - says he didn't do it on purpose but the body language says different 

Then the retribution from Ibrahimovich is just as bad 

Both should get more than 3 match bans


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## sawtooth (Mar 4, 2017)

Slime said:



			Zlatan should have been sent off, no doubt, but the head stamp was absolutely disgusting!
Arter should also have seen a second red too.
Pogba had a shocker, Zlatan is allowed a bad game though.
United should have been 3 up in the first ten minutes but, as has happened before, the oppo goalie turns into Manuel Neuer!
Bournemouth were extremely defensive and physical, but that's part of football and it was up to United to overcome this ...................... they didn't, which is worrying.
Instead, they allowed themselves to get drawn in to a war when they could have easily played their way to three points.
Sixthchester United have much work to do.
Can't believe how much we miss Mkhitaryan!!
		
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Only saw the head stamp a couple of times but looked accidental to me. But will look again tonight on motd to be sure. They will probably have 100 different angles and slow mo to show.

Zlatans elbow was deliberate and will probably get a retrospective ban for that.


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## anotherdouble (Mar 4, 2017)

It still all depends on what Kevin Friend saw and his interpretation. He spoke to Zlatan for sometime after the elbow


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## Junior (Mar 4, 2017)

Slime said:



			Can't believe how much we miss Mkhitaryan!!
		
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Agree with this.  Still think we had enough chances to close out the game. The stamps / elbow were disgusting and should not go unpunished.  

Still think we we are playing better than previous seasons and top 4 is realistic.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 4, 2017)

First half before the incidents. It was an open game with only winner. 

After that bmouth went backs to the wall and Utd couldn't break them down. As happens for lots of teams. 

They got their one chance (pen) and didn't take it. 

Think both players will get 3 match bans. Ref had an absolute shocker!


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## Tashyboy (Mar 4, 2017)

Junior said:



			Agree with this.  Still think we had enough chances to close out the game. The stamps / elbow were disgusting and should not go unpunished.  

Still think we we are playing better than previous seasons and top 4 is realistic.
		
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With you having to play Chelsea. Spuds and arsenal for three of your 13 games. That is a massive ask


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## USER1999 (Mar 4, 2017)

To me, if Rooney hadnt stood up, and caught the Bournmouth player while he was trying to jump Ibrahimovich, he might have made it. No stamp for me. Accident only.


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

Junior said:



			Still think we we are playing better than previous seasons and top 4 is realistic.
		
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When, in 2020 &#128514;&#128514;


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

The officials strike again, Vokes (Burnley) handles the ball in the Swansea box and the ref gives a penalty to Burnley &#128540;&#128514;


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## pokerjoke (Mar 4, 2017)

Junior said:



			Agree with this.  Still think we had enough chances to close out the game. The stamps / elbow were disgusting and should not go unpunished.  

Still think we we are playing better than previous seasons and top 4 is realistic.
		
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4th a given for me purely because our squad is big enough to cope on all fronts.

Only saw the 2nd half and could not believe what I was seeing,a team down to 10 men and we were lumping it into the middle when wide with pace was the answer.

Just a note on Pogba for 100 million he was not worth 10 today very poor and imo is trying to hard he just needs to play and enjoy himself,of course he will get better but for that money you would want a game changer like a Bale or Ronaldo.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 4, 2017)

Things getting very tight for the 3 CL places up for grabs. 
Massive game for Arsenal & Liverpool later,both managers already under pressure. 
What result would suit UTD?


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## pokerjoke (Mar 4, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Things getting very tight for the 3 CL places up for grabs. 
Massive game for Arsenal & Liverpool later,both managers already under pressure. 
What result would suit UTD?
		
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A draw after our result we want 4th not 5th


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## sawtooth (Mar 4, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			A draw after our result we want 4th not 5th
		
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I would have thought a Liverpool win would be better for United.


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## Slime (Mar 4, 2017)

A draw for me, preferably with a few straight reds thrown in for good measure and maybe two or three hamstring pulls .
Desperate .............. Moi?


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## anotherdouble (Mar 4, 2017)

What a comment from Zlatan- 'he jumped into my elbow'.   He's having a laugh.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 4, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			What a comment from Zlatan- 'he jumped into my elbow'.   He's having a laugh.
		
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Like when Suarez's victims fell onto his teeth. 
And when Wayne Bridges Mrs fell onto John Terry's ......&#128514;


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			What a comment from Zlatan- 'he jumped into my elbow'.   He's having a laugh.
		
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I've seen a photo with his fist really clenched as he powers his elbow back with 100% intent, for him to say this is a disgrace and shows he has  no remorse for his actions and it should add to his impending ban, this could have been a Gary Mabut style injury irrelevant of what happened earlier, he has absolutely no defence whatsoever.


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## sawtooth (Mar 4, 2017)

No Sanchez for Arsenal, instead starting with Welbeck and Giroud upfront. 

Brave selection and totally unexpected. I will take a draw today.


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## anotherdouble (Mar 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			I've seen a photo with his fist really clenched as he powers his elbow back with 100% intent, for him to say this is a disgrace and shows he has  no remorse for his actions and it should add to his impending ban, this could have been a Gary Mabut style injury irrelevant of what happened earlier, he has absolutely no defence whatsoever.
		
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I just have this feeling that there will be no ban. I think Friend saw it and took no action. There then can't be any retrospective action. Really hope I am wrong as it deserves a good 5-6 games.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 4, 2017)

Looking at the Arsenal & Liverpool line ups,you'd struggle to make a good team out of both. 
Some very poor players in both teams.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 4, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Looking at the Arsenal & Liverpool line ups,you'd struggle to make a good team out of both. 
Some very poor players in both teams.
		
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Eh are you wired up right, both teams according to fans on here are pushing Chelsea into third spot and Utd with there squad are finishing fourth with the spuds and  City being relegated.


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## Tarkus1212 (Mar 4, 2017)

Jensen said:



			I'm not overly convinced by Coutois, he has no presence about him and think he's pretty average. However as a Spurs fan I'm not bothered, merely speaking as an ex keeper. De Gea has more presence about him, but noting like Peter Schmecial. Young Jordan Pickford at Sunderland looks a very promising keeper, great shot stopper, commands his box and kicks the ball very well. As long as he keeps developing he could really be a top keeper.
		
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Courtois average? So who are the 5 or 6 keepers better than him in the PL? Personally I think he's as good as De Gea and has the potential to be better. He'll be a big loss to Chelsea if he goes.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 4, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Eh are you wired up right, both teams according to fans on here are pushing Chelsea into third spot and Utd with there squad are finishing fourth with the spuds and  City being relegated.
		
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Deadly serious,not one player that started the game would get into Chelsea's starting 11. 
Not even sure if they'd make the bench.


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## USER1999 (Mar 4, 2017)

Coquelin has to be one of the worst plsyers in the premiership. He is truly awful.


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## USER1999 (Mar 4, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Deadly serious,not one player that started the game would get into Chelsea's starting 11. 
Not even sure if they'd make the bench.
		
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You wouldnt have said that last year, and its the same Chelsea players. Its nothing a change in management cant fix.


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## anotherdouble (Mar 4, 2017)

Can somebody please explain to me how if you are playing a direct rival, in a dogfight to retain your 4th place trophy, under attack by an element of your fan base, trying to defend a legacy that is fading to a distant memory and you play Iwobi and leave Sanchez on the bench


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 4, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			You wouldnt have said that last year, and its the same Chelsea players. Its nothing a change in management cant fix.
		
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Still wouldn't have taken too many of em tbh.


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## Hobbit (Mar 4, 2017)

"We're going down, we're going down, Boro's going down."

Not in the least bit surprised. Buying Gestede and selling Rhodes... Gestede isn't the player Rhodes is, and as for Negredo...good job there aren't many Thursday games when he's off collecting his pension.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 4, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Deadly serious,not one player that started the game would get into Chelsea's starting 11. 
Not even sure if they'd make the bench.
		
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I said it tongue very much in cheek. Sane and Coutinho look class at times, as does Sanchez and Ozil. But over the course of a season you need more than 20 good games. at City. Players like de Brynue, Silva, Aguero give you that. It's the other dead wood that don't.

Re goalies top three re my lad who played in goal.
1, De Gea
2, Lloris
3, Courtois

Ironically he would of put Joe Hart in that top three if he hadn't gone to Italy. Also Cech is knocking on that door of top three. Being the best keeper for the last 15 years.
Re Pickford, yup he's good but get off his his back and stop bigging him up. He is a young English kid that needs to settle in.


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## pokerjoke (Mar 4, 2017)

Very good performance from Liverpool so far however how easy have Arsenal made it.

Wenger has lost the plot and it looks like the players have stopped playing for him,once again not a leader amongst them and no-one willing to fight for the cause.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 4, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			"We're going down, we're going down, Boro's going down."

Not in the least bit surprised. Buying Gestede and selling Rhodes... Gestede isn't the player Rhodes is, and as for Negredo...good job there aren't many Thursday games when he's off collecting his pension.
		
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Heard a story ( from a good source) that Negredo had to leave Manchester ( not City) because he liked sowing his seed ( and were not talking gardening). It was not a problem looking after Manchester's willing ladies, until he started playing with the gangsters moll. Things then took a bit of a nasty turn.
Same source also said that a certain Mr Hart also likes the non gardening sowing as well.


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Can somebody please explain to me how if you are playing a direct rival, in a dogfight to retain your 4th place trophy, under attack by an element of your fan base, trying to defend a legacy that is fading to a distant memory and you play Iwobi and leave Sanchez on the bench
		
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I think it's punishment for displaying his passion, that's not the Arsenal way, Wenger will take Sanchez down with him. 

 Shame United couldn't finish Bournemouth off, I think a few attitudes might have changed towards Wenger when sitting in 6th &#128540; 

City to play Sunderland just adds more points for Arsenal to chase, and with constant poor selection & tactics, it's Europa for the Noth London boys, nice legacy to leave your club in &#128540;


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## Imurg (Mar 4, 2017)

What's wrong with Football...?
Sam Vokes summed it up.
Apparently it would never happen for Vokes to tell the Ref that he handled it...
Football is full of cheats and liars
And they get treated like Royalty.....
They're all Peasents...


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## Hobbit (Mar 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think it's punishment for displaying his passion, that's not the Arsenal way, Wenger will take Sanchez down with him. 

 Shame United couldn't finish Bournemouth off, I think a few attitudes might have changed towards Wenger when sitting in 6th &#63004; 

City to play Sunderland just adds more points for Arsenal to chase, and with constant poor selection & tactics, it's Europa for the Noth London boys, nice legacy to leave your club in &#63004;
		
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Will they qualify for the Europa on the back of their CL performance this season? There the possibility they might not finish high enough in the Prem this season to qualify...


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## USER1999 (Mar 4, 2017)

Its amazing what happens when you play your best players. Who would have thought.


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Will they qualify for the Europa on the back of their CL performance this season? There the possibility they might not finish high enough in the Prem this season to qualify...
		
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Now your just teasing &#128514;&#128514;


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Its amazing what happens when you play your best players. Who would have thought.
		
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Immediate assist and wouldn't surprise me if he scored, if you then came away with a draw after sitting him on the bench for 45mins, surely questions still need to be asked, or will the Wenger lovers see it just as a good result away&#129300;


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## USER1999 (Mar 4, 2017)

Flipping heck. Walcott. At least Perez is coming on too.


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## USER1999 (Mar 4, 2017)

Oh, and something of a tactical shock, its the 70 something minute substitutions.


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## USER1999 (Mar 4, 2017)

Oh great, the clock is ticking, we are down a goal, and we are argiung with the ref  running the clock down. Genius.


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## fundy (Mar 4, 2017)

Thanks for the memories Arsene (and most of them are getting pretty faded) but its time to move on.

He genuinely must think Liverpool arent competition if you look at the 2 starting sides he has put out against them this year, utterly embarrassing.

Id love to know the stats of when Coquelin and Xhaka start together, possibly the worst combination ever (and yes I saw Morrow and Hillier play together!). On the plus side people betting on their bookings collect again 

So it was worth Sanchez coming on at Sutton but not worth him starting against another top 4 competitor, sorry but if you need any more evidence I just dont get it

Enjoy your retirement or your next project but were long due for a fresh start!


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## anotherdouble (Mar 4, 2017)

fundy said:



			Thanks for the memories Arsene (and most of them are getting pretty faded) but its time to move on.

He genuinely must think Liverpool arent competition if you look at the 2 starting sides he has put out against them this year, utterly embarrassing.

Id love to know the stats of when Coquelin and Xhaka start together, possibly the worst combination ever (and yes I saw Morrow and Hillier play together!). On the plus side people betting on their bookings collect again 

So it was worth Sanchez coming on at Sutton but not worth him starting against another top 4 competitor, sorry but if you need any more evidence I just dont get it

Enjoy your retirement or your next project but were long due for a fresh start!
		
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But at least he still has Sawtooth fighting his corner


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## sawtooth (Mar 4, 2017)

Disappointing result but fair play to Liverpool.

See where we are after 38 games and go from there. It's getting extremly tight up there and still all to play for.


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## sawtooth (Mar 4, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			But at least he still has Sawtooth fighting his corner
		
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Sure it's hardly a disaster and a lot still to play for. Away to Liverpool at Anfield never easy. Spurs lost there a few backs too and they have the best defense in the league.


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## anotherdouble (Mar 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Disappointing result but fair play to Liverpool.

See where we are after 38 games and go from there. It's getting extremly tight up there and still all to play for.
		
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It's only a disappointing result in my eyes if you play well and lose. That was a poor performance. Please explain what is still all to play for?


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 4, 2017)

Not sure of why Sanchez started on the bench. They looked far better when he came off. Arsenal far better in the second half but totally out played in the first and they couldn't deal with the Liverpool pressing. Brilliant third to kill the game off


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## sawtooth (Mar 4, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			It's only a disappointing result in my eyes if you play well and lose. That was a poor performance. Please explain what is still all to play for?
		
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Top 4 , FA Cup

Liverpool played well , so 6 off 1 and half a dozen of the other.


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## Khamelion (Mar 4, 2017)

And the Toon go marching on


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## fundy (Mar 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Sure it's hardly a disaster and a lot still to play for. Away to Liverpool at Anfield never easy. Spurs lost there a few backs too and they have the best defense in the league.
		
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and what about losing to them at home? happy he perseveres with Xhaka and Coquelin? happy with Sanchez on the bench? why didnt Koscielny lead from the back as he wouldve done in the second half v Bayern?


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## sawtooth (Mar 4, 2017)

fundy said:



			and what about losing to them at home? happy he perseveres with Xhaka and Coquelin? happy with Sanchez on the bench? why didnt Koscielny lead from the back as he wouldve done in the second half v Bayern?
		
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It was a tactic that obviously didn't work out that great but , you win some you lose some.
Obviously some work to do by Wenger as team isn't clicking as well as it should but need to get behind the team and manager and kick on to the end of the season.

Bottom line is if he doesn't make top 4 this year it will be his first failure so let's cut him some slack.

With the likes of City Chelsea and United hell bent on winning the league every year top 4 is probably as good as it gets anyway.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 4, 2017)

Why in such a big game would you not start your player !!


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			With the likes of City Chelsea and United hell bent on winning the league every year top 4 is probably as good as it gets anyway.
		
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Wow, just wow &#128514;&#128514;


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## sawtooth (Mar 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			Wow, just wow &#128514;&#128514;
		
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You buy the league , others have to earn it.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 4, 2017)

Wenger got the side wrong, couldn't cope with the way Liverpool played and frankly looks tired and jaded. I will be surprised on recent showings if they make the top four.


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## anotherdouble (Mar 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			It was a tactic that obviously didn't work out that great but , you win some you lose some.
Obviously some work to do by Wenger as team isn't clicking as well as it should but need to get behind the team and manager and kick on to the end of the season.

Bottom line is if he doesn't make top 4 this year it will be his first failure so let's cut him some slack.

With the likes of City Chelsea and United hell bent on winning the league every year top 4 is probably as good as it gets anyway.
		
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If your seasons objective is making the top 4 which yours most obviously is then yes this could be he 1st failure. As mine is winning the league then I see a dozen failures.


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 22144


Why in such a big game would you not start your player !!
		
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It's a good result for you at the right time, but it is against a team that traditionally doesn't do Well against other top 4 teams and I wouldn't get too carried away as you've played 1 more game than everyone else, yes I'd rather have the points on the table but.......it's a good scrap for 4th between the 3 of you &#128521;  United not winning saved Wenger even more blushes, unless your in total denial that is &#128540;


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			You buy the league , others have to earn it.
		
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&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## anotherdouble (Mar 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			You buy the league , others have to earn it.
		
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Please explain how Chelsea will buy the league but if Arsenal win it they have earned it


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## merv79 (Mar 4, 2017)

I would be disappointed if Mings gets a ban for that, it looks to me that he is trying to jump to the side of Ibra and chase the play as Utd are attacking. If he wanted to stamp he would have properly hit him and not just clipped his pony tail.


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## Hobbit (Mar 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			It was a tactic that obviously didn't work out that great but , you win some you lose some.
Obviously some work to do by Wenger as team isn't clicking as well as it should but need to get behind the team and manager and kick on to the end of the season.

Bottom line is if he doesn't make top 4 this year it will be his first failure so let's cut him some slack.

With the likes of City Chelsea and United hell bent on winning the league every year top 4 is probably as good as it gets anyway.
		
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Thought Wenger was the greatest tactician since Erwin Rommel? 6th if you're lucky.


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Please explain how Chelsea will buy the league but if Arsenal win it they have earned it
		
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Oh dear, why oh why did you ask.......he's like Sheldon, you don't ask certain questions &#128540;


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## sawtooth (Mar 4, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			If your seasons objective is making the top 4 which yours most obviously is then yes this could be he 1st failure. As mine is winning the league then I see a dozen failures.
		
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Of course goal is to win the league but if not possible then top 4 is the next target. I don't know how many times we keep going over this.

Yes yours is winning the league you buy all the best players , it should be. And each year you will look with jealousy on teams around you and take their crown jewels lol. Like Kante  last year and probably Sanchez next year.

It's a dog eat dog world and all clubs do this , the only difference is that Chelsea and City use someone else's billions to do it.

Fine but don't knock traditional club models when it doesn't compete with your model.


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## Hobbit (Mar 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			You buy the league , others have to earn it.
		
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You need to look at the balance of spending and selling. Great business by Chelsea, but not Arsenal. The nett is in Chelsea's favour both in terms of the balance sheet and league positions in the last 10 years. Looks like Arsenal aren't that good with money after all.


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## fundy (Mar 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			It was a tactic that obviously didn't work out that great but , you win some you lose some.
Obviously some work to do by Wenger as team isn't clicking as well as it should but need to get behind the team and manager and kick on to the end of the season.

*Bottom line is if he doesn't make top 4 this year it will be his first failure so let's cut him some slack.*

With the likes of City Chelsea and United hell bent on winning the league every year top 4 is probably as good as it gets anyway.
		
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Only if you measure success by making the top 4. If you measure it as winning the league then its his 13th failure in a row


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Of course goal is to win the league but if not possible then top 4 is the next target. I don't know how many times we keep going over this.

Yes yours is winning the league you buy all the best players , it should be. And each year you will look with jealousy on teams around you and take their crown jewels lol. Like Kante  last year and probably Sanchez next year.

It's a dog eat dog world and all clubs do this , the only difference is that Chelsea and City use someone else's billions to do it.

Fine but don't knock traditional club models when it doesn't compete with your model.
		
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Was Vardy Leicesters crown Jewel, or 1 of them last year&#129300;


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## anotherdouble (Mar 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Of course goal is to win the league but if not possible then top 4 is the next target. I don't know how many times we keep going over this.

Yes yours is winning the league you buy all the best players , it should be. And each year you will look with jealousy on teams around you and take their crown jewels lol. Like Kante  last year and probably Sanchez next year.

It's a dog eat dog world and all clubs do this , the only difference is that Chelsea and City use someone else's billions to do it.

Fine but don't knock traditional club models when it doesn't compete with your model.
		
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Glad Arsenal don't buy other clubs top players otherwise we could all be in trouble. Why should I knock your model that obviously doesn't work


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			You need to look at the balance of spending and selling. Great business by Chelsea, but not Arsenal. The nett is in Chelsea's favour both in terms of the balance sheet and league positions in the last 10 years. Looks like Arsenal aren't that good with money after all.
		
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Oh please don't let facts get in the way of his argument, let him have his moment to embarrass himself more than he does daily.


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Glad Arsenal don't buy other clubs top players otherwise we could all be in trouble. Why should I knock your model that obviously doesn't work
		
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They try, but they won't go, Vardy turned them down and at his stage of his career that speaks volumes.


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## sawtooth (Mar 4, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Thought Wenger was the greatest tactician since Erwin Rommel? 6th if you're lucky.
		
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So be it if that is the case it's not easy to make top 4 , let alone 21 years in a row.


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

fundy said:



			Only if you measure success by making the top 4. If you measure it as winning the league then its his 13th failure in a row
		
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But he's satisfied with that and has said as much, a domestic Cup and CL qualification and Sawtooth is satisfied. 

All hail Wenger &#128514;&#128514;


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## sawtooth (Mar 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			Was Vardy Leicesters crown Jewel, or 1 of them last year&#129300;
		
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Yes and Arsenal attempted to buy with their own funds. Couldn't go over what they valued the player at. There's thea disadvantage right there. Chelsea has no limit , your benefactor has no concept of P&L. It's play money.

I couldn't enjoy winning that way , pointless and empty.


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## anotherdouble (Mar 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			They try, but they won't go, Vardy turned them down and at his stage of his career that speaks volumes.
		
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The rolling eyes didnt work. I would have thought Sanchez, Ozil, cech, Kos, and others were some clubs top players but I must be wrong because Arsenal don't do that.


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## sawtooth (Mar 4, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			You need to look at the balance of spending and selling. Great business by Chelsea, but not Arsenal. The nett is in Chelsea's favour both in terms of the balance sheet and league positions in the last 10 years. Looks like Arsenal aren't that good with money after all.
		
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Great business?  that is hilarious and naive in the extreme. Â£1Billlion of Oil money ploughed in and counting. That is honestly quite funny.


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## Hobbit (Mar 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yes and Arsenal attempted to buy with their own funds. Couldn't go over what they valued the player at. There's thea disadvantage right there. Chelsea has no limit , your benefactor has no concept of P&L. It's play money.

I couldn't enjoy winning that way , pointless and empty.
		
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But to repeat something I posted a month or so back you clearly said in the run up to this season this was the time Arsenal would spend... but now you've changed your mind because even though you were willing to spend you still couldn't attract the players...


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## Hobbit (Mar 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Great business?  that is hilarious and naive in the extreme. Â£1Billlion of Oil money ploughed in and counting. That is honestly quite funny.
		
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You can't hide from the facts. Arsenal's nett loss is in the transfer market is greater than Chelsea's. Do you seriously think its funny to have a worse balance sheet than a competitor?

And not only do Chelsea have a better balance sheet in the transfer market, they've taken in even more in winnings from winning the league, being higher up in the league and winning a CL. If you think that's not better business by Chelsea you need your bumps read.


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## sawtooth (Mar 4, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			The rolling eyes didnt work. I would have thought Sanchez, Ozil, cech, Kos, and others were some clubs top players but I must be wrong because Arsenal don't do that.
		
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No Arsenal do , you're not wrong. That's the natural food chain in football.

What you're wrong about is the source of income. Football generated through success on the pitch versus a unlimited external source of money from Rich benefactors.

The things are quite different. 

Do you honestly think the Chelsea of 14 years ago would have gotten to where they are without that money? 

It could have been Spurs or anyone else but it was Chelsea. 

If that floats your boat good luck to you but I'm grateful that Arsenal don't go that way. 

It would feel hollow and empty , not a real victory in my book. 

I'd rather carry on with near misses and playing nice football like 95% of the rest of the football league. 

Respect to Spurs, Liverpool, even Utd and the others. But City and Chelsea? Nah not for me. It's a lie.


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## sawtooth (Mar 4, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			You can't hide from the facts. Arsenal's nett loss is in the transfer market is greater than Chelsea's. Do you seriously think its funny to have a worse balance sheet than a competitor?

And not only do Chelsea have a better balance sheet in the transfer market, they've taken in even more in winnings from winning the league, being higher up in the league and winning a CL. If you think that's not better business by Chelsea you need your bumps read.
		
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Obviously foundation was built that way, in recent years the football generated money from the club has caught up . You're conveniently or negligently ignoring the massive cash injection in formative years starting 2003.

No embarrassment to have a worse balance sheet against that of Chelsea's. A proud Gooner and if that makes me a loser so be it. I'd rather it that way than the alternative.


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## Hobbit (Mar 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			No Arsenal do , you're not wrong. That's the natural food chain in football.

What you're wrong about is the source of income. Football generated through success on the pitch versus a unlimited external source of money from Rich benefactors.

The things are quite different. 

Do you honestly think the Chelsea of 14 years ago would have gotten to where they are without that money? 

It could have been Spurs or anyone else but it was Chelsea. 

If that floats your boat good luck to you but I'm grateful that Arsenal don't go that way. 

It would feel hollow and empty , not a real victory in my book. 

I'd rather carry on with near misses and playing nice football like 95% of the rest of the football league. 

Respect to Spurs, Liverpool, even Utd and the others. But City and Chelsea? Nah not for me. It's a lie.
		
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Do you think that without money Arsenal would be playing at the Emirates or still at Highbury? If you're going to widen the argument, which team has spent the most on grounds in the last 14 years? This isn't one you can win in terms of overall balance sheets.

Arsenal chose to spend on the ground, not players. But, as you said in the close season, the ground is paid for now...


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## sawtooth (Mar 4, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			But to repeat something I posted a month or so back you clearly said in the run up to this season this was the time Arsenal would spend... but now you've changed your mind because even though you were willing to spend you still couldn't attract the players...
		
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And we did spend and we'll spend again and again.  But there's a limit to our spending, a responsibility to our spending, thats the important difference that you are somehow not grasping.

We could all do better if we spent reckless amounts of cash without any fear of losing it.


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## anotherdouble (Mar 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			No Arsenal do , you're not wrong. That's the natural food chain in football.

What you're wrong about is the source of income. Football generated through success on the pitch versus a unlimited external source of money from Rich benefactors.

The things are quite different. 

Do you honestly think the Chelsea of 14 years ago would have gotten to where they are without that money? 

It could have been Spurs or anyone else but it was Chelsea. 

If that floats your boat good luck to you but I'm grateful that Arsenal don't go that way. 

It would feel hollow and empty , not a real victory in my book. 

I'd rather carry on with near misses and playing nice football like 95% of the rest of the football league. 

Respect to Spurs, Liverpool, even Utd and the others. But City and Chelsea? Nah not for me. It's a lie.
		
Click to expand...

Takes a big man to publicly admit he wants to be a loser all his life so respect


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## jp5 (Mar 4, 2017)

Imagine dropping your best player. Can't work it out.


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## Hobbit (Mar 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			And we did spend and we'll spend again and again.  But there's a limit to our spending, a responsibility to our spending, thats the important difference that you are somehow not grasping.

We could all do better if we spent reckless amounts of cash without any fear of losing it.
		
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How on earth can you claim to be responsible spenders in the transfer market when your balance sheet is worse than Chelsea's, who you decry?


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## anotherdouble (Mar 4, 2017)

jp5 said:



			Imagine dropping your best player. Can't work it out.
		
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Wenger obviously thought Sutton was a tougher game as didn't he start against rhem


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## Slime (Mar 4, 2017)

merv79 said:



*I would be disappointed if Mings gets a ban for that*, it looks to me that he is trying to jump to the side of Ibra and chase the play as Utd are attacking. If he wanted to stamp he would have properly hit him and not just clipped his pony tail.
		
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:rofl::rofl::rofl:.
You are either trolling, being ironic or just mentally barren ................... which is it?


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## jp5 (Mar 4, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Wenger obviously thought Sutton was a tougher game as didn't he start against rhem
		
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Came on as a sub against Sutton. Got to start your strongest team, was Wenger making a point? Has become toxic at the club sadly.


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## Hobbit (Mar 4, 2017)

jp5 said:



			Came on as a sub against Sutton. Got to start your strongest team, was Wenger making a point? Has become toxic at the club sadly.
		
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Two seasons ago I thought Wenger was a demi-god. Not anymore. Sadly, I agree with you. Time to be put out to pasture.


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## anotherdouble (Mar 4, 2017)

jp5 said:



			Came on as a sub against Sutton. Got to start your strongest team, was Wenger making a point? Has become toxic at the club sadly.
		
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Cheers for Correcting me sir. Much appreciated


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 4, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Two seasons ago I thought Wenger was a demi-god. Not anymore. Sadly, I agree with you. Time to be put out to pasture.
		
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Great display from the Reds.
But couldn't believe you left your most dangerous player on the bench.
Liverpool overran Arsenal first half and it could have been over by half time.
Good fight back by Arsenal second half but it is obvious there is problems with the balance of the team.
Apart from the goal I can only remember Minolet making one save.
If Firminno had stayed on his feet instead of trying for penalty and gave the ball away but three passes later it's in our net.
Good goal but was preventable.
We have given to many goals like that away this season.
Only real frustration is consistency where was that team against Leicster.


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## Hobbit (Mar 4, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Great display from the Reds.
But couldn't believe you left your most dangerous player on the bench.
Liverpool overran Arsenal first half and it could have been over by half time.
Good fight back by Arsenal second half but it is obvious there is problems with the balance of the team.
Apart from the goal I can only remember Minolet making one save.
If Firminno had stayed on his feet instead of trying for penalty and gave the ball away but three passes later it's in our net.
Good goal but was preventable.
We have given to many goals like that away this season.
Only real frustration is consistency where was that team against Leicster.
		
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Wish he was our most dangerous player, but I'm a Middlesbrough fan.


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## sawtooth (Mar 4, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Two seasons ago I thought Wenger was a demi-god. Not anymore. Sadly, I agree with you. Time to be put out to pasture.
		
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Even if he makes top 4? and possibly FA cup? 

What are you expecting exactly? 

Klopp, Poch or Mourinho make top 4 this year and they roll out the red carpet. 

Yet if Wenger does it you would get rid of him?  Serious question if you were the Chairman would you sack Wenger?


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## ger147 (Mar 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Even if he makes top 4? and possibly FA cup? 

What are you expecting exactly? 

Klopp, Poch or Mourinho make top 4 this year and they roll out the red carpet. 

Yet if Wenger does it you would get rid of him?  Serious question if you were the Chairman would you sack Wenger?
		
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He won't make top 4, get your bets on now before the odds get any less favourable.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 4, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Wish he was our most dangerous player, but I'm a Middlesbrough fan.
		
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Oh that's unfortunate.
Ihoped he would come here but he chose Arsenal at the time .
He is a quality player that can make something out of nothing.
would still have him now with Mane they would be a fab front two.

Liverpool really need top four to get the best players for next season as I think Klopp has the money but need C/L to attract the best.


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## Hobbit (Mar 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Even if he makes top 4? and possibly FA cup? 

What are you expecting exactly? 

Klopp, Poch or Mourinho make top 4 this year and they roll out the red carpet. 

Yet if Wenger does it you would get rid of him?  Serious question if you were the Chairman would you sack Wenger?
		
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Yes I'd sack him because I'd have more ambition than 4th. Arsenal are a bigger club than Liverpool, just, and way bigger than Tottenham. Lack of ambition is dragging them down to their level, not up to a Chelsea and Man City level.

We've done the finance thing to death tonight. If you include the spending on the new stadium and on transfers, you've spent more than Chelsea. And as you said in the close season , the ground is paid for. But where is the guts to push on in the transfer market and on the field? And splitting hairs, I do question some of Wenger's decisions in the last 2 seasons. Increasingly, his team choices are questionable. Cech in the CL, and more so this season with some of his Saturday choices.

Don't get me wrong, I'd sooner Arsenal won the league than anyone else in the top 6 at present. This isn't an Arsenal dig, far from it, its an ambition to see Arsenal do better, and I can't see that anymore under Wenger.


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Yes I'd sack him because I'd have more ambition than 4th. Arsenal are a bigger club than Liverpool, just, and way bigger than Tottenham. Lack of ambition is dragging them down to their level, not up to a Chelsea and Man City level.

We've done the finance thing to death tonight. If you include the spending on the new stadium and on transfers, you've spent more than Chelsea. And as you said in the close season , the ground is paid for. But where is the guts to push on in the transfer market and on the field? And splitting hairs, I do question some of Wenger's decisions in the last 2 seasons. Increasingly, his team choices are questionable. Cech in the CL, and more so this season with some of his Saturday choices.

Don't get me wrong, I'd sooner Arsenal won the league than anyone else in the top 6 at present. This isn't an Arsenal dig, far from it, its an ambition to see Arsenal do better, and I can't see that anymore under Wenger.
		
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And the thing is Bri, if Arsenal miraculously hung on to 4th it would only be because Liverpool & United are still feeling their feet with new players and management, something you can't excuse Arsenal with, and as sure as chickens lay eggs, Liverpool & United will get better, they will buy well and will feature next season even stronger, but you wouldn't expect Arsenal to, history has taught us that, same old same old and they'll get left behind competing with Everton for 6th & 7th.


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## USER1999 (Mar 4, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Yes I'd sack him because I'd have more ambition than 4th. Arsenal are a bigger club than Liverpool, just, and way bigger than Tottenham. Lack of ambition is dragging them down to their level, not up to a Chelsea and Man City level.

We've done the finance thing to death tonight. If you include the spending on the new stadium and on transfers, you've spent more than Chelsea. And as you said in the close season , the ground is paid for. But where is the guts to push on in the transfer market and on the field? And splitting hairs, I do question some of Wenger's decisions in the last 2 seasons. Increasingly, his team choices are questionable. Cech in the CL, and more so this season with some of his Saturday choices.

Don't get me wrong, I'd sooner Arsenal won the league than anyone else in the top 6 at present. This isn't an Arsenal dig, far from it, its an ambition to see Arsenal do better, and I can't see that anymore under Wenger.
		
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I agree, but you forgot to mention the wage bill. Its not far short of City's, and way more than Tottenhams. Some of those players are hugely over paid. Thats Wengers fault too. Cant shift them on, and they are not good enough, and never were.


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## Hobbit (Mar 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			And the thing is Bri, if Arsenal miraculously hung on to 4th it would only be because Liverpool & United are still feeling their feet with new players and management, something you can't excuse Arsenal with, and as sure as chickens lay eggs, Liverpool & United will get better, they will buy well and will feature next season even stronger, but you wouldn't expect Arsenal to, history has taught us that, same old same old and they'll get left behind competing with Everton for 6th & 7th.
		
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Utd, and Everton only need to score a few more goals and they'll be ahead of Arsenal. Their defence is better than Arsenal's. And Tottenham, if they can keep their stars are a young team that will only get better. 

Arsenal are doing a Man Utd. Their team will fade at the same time their (once stellar) manager leaves. Its so plain its up in flashing neon lights.


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## sawtooth (Mar 4, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Yes I'd sack him because I'd have more ambition than 4th. Arsenal are a bigger club than Liverpool, just, and way bigger than Tottenham. Lack of ambition is dragging them down to their level, not up to a Chelsea and Man City level.

We've done the finance thing to death tonight. If you include the spending on the new stadium and on transfers, you've spent more than Chelsea. And as you said in the close season , the ground is paid for. But where is the guts to push on in the transfer market and on the field? And splitting hairs, I do question some of Wenger's decisions in the last 2 seasons. Increasingly, his team choices are questionable. Cech in the CL, and more so this season with some of his Saturday choices.

Don't get me wrong, I'd sooner Arsenal won the league than anyone else in the top 6 at present. This isn't an Arsenal dig, far from it, its an ambition to see Arsenal do better, and I can't see that anymore under Wenger.
		
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Arsenal have ambition in spades we just can't compete with the best and there's no shame in that as far as I am concerned.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Arsenal have ambition in spades we just can't compete with the best and there's no shame in that as far as I am concerned.
		
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You paid how much for sanchez and ozil?

if you bought less youngetsers form Europe and over paid them. You could put the mi year towards superstars. 

You can compete financially woth most. Your manager won't. There in lies the problem. He's scared to make a mistake in the market so plays safe.


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## fundy (Mar 4, 2017)

cant compete financially? we paid more for Xhaka than Chelsea paid for Kante lol


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## Fish (Mar 4, 2017)

fundy said:



			cant compete financially? we paid more for Xhaka than Chelsea paid for Kante lol
		
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I know, it's the thread that just keeps giving &#128540;&#128514;


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## fundy (Mar 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			I know, it's the thread that just keeps giving &#128540;&#128514;
		
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youve bought plenty of duds too, dont overdo it


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## Stuart_C (Mar 4, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Great display from the Reds.
But couldn't believe you left your most dangerous player on the bench.
Liverpool overran Arsenal first half and it could have been over by half time.
Good fight back by Arsenal second half but it is obvious there is problems with the balance of the team.
Apart from the goal I can only remember Minolet making one save.
*If Firminno had stayed on his feet instead of trying for penalty and gave the ball away but three passes later it's in our net.*
Good goal but was preventable.
We have given to many goals like that away this season.
Only real frustration is consistency where was that team against Leicster.
		
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Clyne was at fault for the goal, he should've been goal side of Welbeck.

Clyne is a weak link in our side, defensively poor and his final balls are poor. I'd happily jib him in the summer.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Arsenal have ambition in spades we just can't compete with the best and there's no shame in that as far as I am concerned.
		
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How exactly have they shown this ambition ? By paying big wages for the big players ? By spending the required money on the players required ? 

Is it not all words - I still can't understand how Wenger wouldn't play Sanchez and play Iwobi who surely is committing fraud by claiming a Premier League wage ! 

Whilst we have issues against the smaller sides , Arsenal once again when it comes to the big game fail horribly. 

Arsenal have managed to grab a CL spot over the last couple of years mainly due to the ineptitude of the others - Liverpool , Utd and Spurs over the last 5 years just havent consistently been good enough to be in the Top 4 - now though there is 6 teams looking at a Top 4 spot so every point counts - that was a big game for both tonight - Arsenal in that game had their most dangerous playing sat on the bench. Arsenal to me because of Wenger are going backwards - spent poorly again in the summer and I hope that's Wenger stays because for me if he will take them further backwards. 

Most expensive tickets in the Prem and nothing to show for it


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## merv79 (Mar 4, 2017)

Slime said:



			:rofl::rofl::rofl:.
You are either trolling, being ironic or just mentally barren ................... which is it?
		
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Mings did clip him as he was trying to get past him but I don't think it was intentional or trying to hurt Ibra. Lets see what the FA decide to do!


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 5, 2017)

merv79 said:



			Mings did clip him as he was trying to get past him but I don't think it was intentional or trying to hurt Ibra. Lets see what the FA decide to do!
		
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Think the Mings one is debatable only he will know for sure.
But think Zlatan is in trouble with the FA.
The way he went down for the push was embarrassing black belt isn't he.?
Very similar to Firminnos before Arsenal scored in counter attack why can't they just stay on their feet.
Only seen motd but was a blood and guts game prob only way Bournmouth could get a result.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 5, 2017)

Nice to see the scousers posting again.
Funny how they seem overly busy when they aren't winning&#128563;


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## sawtooth (Mar 5, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How exactly have they shown this ambition ? By paying big wages for the big players ? By spending the required money on the players required ? 

Is it not all words - I still can't understand how Wenger wouldn't play Sanchez and play Iwobi who surely is committing fraud by claiming a Premier League wage ! 

Whilst we have issues against the smaller sides , Arsenal once again when it comes to the big game fail horribly. 

Arsenal have managed to grab a CL spot over the last couple of years mainly due to the ineptitude of the others - Liverpool , Utd and Spurs over the last 5 years just havent consistently been good enough to be in the Top 4 - now though there is 6 teams looking at a Top 4 spot so every point counts - that was a big game for both tonight - Arsenal in that game had their most dangerous playing sat on the bench. Arsenal to me because of Wenger are going backwards - spent poorly again in the summer and I hope that's Wenger stays because for me if he will take them further backwards. 

Most expensive tickets in the Prem and nothing to show for it
		
Click to expand...

You make some good points but let's see how things finish up. 

Surely for all our faults and with Wenger taking the club backwards then Liverpool should easily go past Arsenal. Right?

The fact is you have beaten all of your rivals at the top yet will probably finish 10 points or more from the champions. You must be gutted.

You certainly have issues so i would sort those out first, win something, finish in the top 4 for a few seasons then be as critical as you like.

Right now though you look a bit silly, i admire your confidence though. Funny how that quickly vanished when Klopp won  only once in 9 or whatever it was. But you are in bullish mood again after a good win. Back to being champions elect in a day?!

Let's see how it pans out.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			You make some good points but let's see how things finish up. 

Surely for all our faults and with Wenger taking the club backwards then Liverpool should easily go past Arsenal. Right?

The fact is you have beaten all of your rivals at the top yet will probably finish 10 points or more from the champions. You must be gutted.

You certainly have issues so i would sort those out first, win something, finish in the top 4 for a few seasons then be as critical as you like.

Right now though you look a bit silly, i admire your confidence though. Funny how that quickly vanished when Klopp won  only once in 9 or whatever it was. But you are in bullish mood again after a good win. Back to being champions elect in a day?!

Let's see how it pans out.
		
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I known our issues and even mentioned them and my point wasn't about Liverpool it was about Arsenal 

Can't see where in that post I was being confident or bullish about Liverpool and certainly don't say anything about champions elect ?! Are you reading something that isn't there or just avoiding the issues of your own club - again. 

I'm still confused how your manager can drop his best player because he wants the team to play more direct ( even better for Sanchez instead of Iwobi ) and then doesn't play direct ?! 

Manager sat on his backside the whole match showing no effort to motivate the team and that transfers onto the team - no fight , no effort and no leadership . We are playing poorly right now and it was perfect for Arsenal to go at us straight from the whistle - yet nothing from them - as Keown said , it was pathetic , worst he has seen for 20 years and he is worried for Arsenal - miss out on CL and that could have a crippling effect on the club


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## Stuart_C (Mar 5, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I known our issues and even mentioned them and my point wasn't about Liverpool it was about Arsenal 

Can't see where in that post I was being confident or bullish about Liverpool and certainly don't say anything about champions elect ?! Are you reading something that isn't there or just avoiding the issues of your own club - again. 

I'm still confused how your manager can drop his best player because he wants the team to play more direct ( even better for Sanchez instead of Iwobi ) and then doesn't play direct ?! 

Manager sat on his backside the whole match showing no effort to motivate the team and that transfers onto the team - no fight , no effort and no leadership . We are playing poorly right now and it was perfect for Arsenal to go at us straight from the whistle - yet nothing from them - as Keown said , it was pathetic , worst he has seen for 20 years and he is worried for Arsenal - miss out on CL and that could have a crippling effect on the club
		
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Turn it in Phil, after all the defending of Wenger he's done there's no chance he'll criticize him now.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 5, 2017)

Rooney must have eyes in the back of his head because the footage of the alleged stamp from Ming's clearly shows Rooney looking the other way screaming at the ref.  

Then he has the audacity to call the FA to give retrospective punishment. 

I never had him down as a midnight mass.


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## Fish (Mar 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Rooney must have eyes in the back of his head because the footage of the alleged stamp from Ming's clearly shows Rooney looking the other way screaming at the ref.  

Then he has the audacity to call the FA to give retrospective punishment. 

I never had him down as a midnight mass.
		
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I said it immediately after his interview when he was asked, 'if he'd seen it', he said, 'yes, I was right there and there's no place in the game for that', and yet he had his back to the incident throughout appealing to the ref, 100% liar &#128545;


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## sawtooth (Mar 5, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I known our issues and even mentioned them and my point wasn't about Liverpool it was about Arsenal 

Can't see where in that post I was being confident or bullish about Liverpool and certainly don't say anything about champions elect ?! Are you reading something that isn't there or just avoiding the issues of your own club - again. 

I'm still confused how your manager can drop his best player because he wants the team to play more direct ( even better for Sanchez instead of Iwobi ) and then doesn't play direct ?! 

Manager sat on his backside the whole match showing no effort to motivate the team and that transfers onto the team - no fight , no effort and no leadership . We are playing poorly right now and it was perfect for Arsenal to go at us straight from the whistle - yet nothing from them - as Keown said , it was pathetic , worst he has seen for 20 years and he is worried for Arsenal - miss out on CL and that could have a crippling effect on the club
		
Click to expand...

i was referring to your mood rather than actual words used. Strangely quiet and not not so opinionated when Liverpool lose but have much more to say about  rivals after a win or two.

My stance doesn't change from game to game as I appreciate the work Wenger has done and continues to do. 

So many people on here will switch from being champions one week to the world is ending the next. I prefer to take the ups and downs as they come each week and look at the big picture at the end of the year. Top 4 and a trophy is still a reality for us.

Question, do you think it's easy to finish top 4 in the PL 

If the answer to above is no then how can you knock Wenger for doing this for the past 20 years running.

If the answer is yes, why have Liverpool only managed it a handful of times, struggled last year and making it difficult this year?


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## Stuart_C (Mar 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			I said it immediately after his interview when he was asked, 'if he'd seen it', he said, 'yes, I was right there and there's no place in the game for that', and yet he had his back to the incident throughout appealing to the ref, 100% liar &#128545;
		
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I've only just seen it on SSN. 

Amazingly though he never saw Zlatan's elbow. The  size of Zlatan he deserves a 3match ban for falling over from Surman's push. 

I'm not sure Mings meant to stamp on Zlatan's head I'd be prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt but Zlatan's elbow was definitely meant.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			i was referring to your mood rather than actual words used. Strangely quiet and not not so opinionated when Liverpool lose but have much more to say about  rivals after a win or two.

My stance doesn't change from game to game as I appreciate the work Wenger has done and continues to do. 

So many people on here will switch from being champions one week to the world is ending the next. I prefer to take the ups and downs as they come each week and look at the big picture at the end of the year. Top 4 and a trophy is still a reality for us.

Question, do you think it's easy to finish top 4 in the PL 

If the answer to above is no then how can you knock Wenger for doing this for the past 20 years running.

If the answer is yes, why have Liverpool only managed it a handful of times, struggled last year and making it difficult this year?
		
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Why do you always feel the need to bring Liverpool or Chelsea  into the conversation whenever Arsenal/ Wenger are spoken about?


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## Fish (Mar 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I've only just seen it on SSN. 

Amazingly though he never saw Zlatan's elbow. The  size of Zlatan he deserves a 3match ban for falling over from Surman's push. 

I'm not sure Mings meant to stamp on Zlatan's head I'd be prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt but Zlatan's elbow was definitely meant.
		
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I must say I've changed my opinion of it like Danny Mills has, it's impossible to prove any intent and could well have been accidental, especially as I think there's a bit of contact as Rooney starts to get up at the same time Mings is trying to hurdle Zlatan which restricts where he can place his foot and then catches him, whereas Zlatans elbow is pure intent and retaliation, I was amazed Zlatan didn't get booked when he threw Mings to the ground early doors right in view of the ref!


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## pokerjoke (Mar 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			I must say I've changed my opinion of it like Danny Mills has, it's impossible to prove any intent and could well have been accidental, especially as I think there's a bit of contact as Rooney starts to get up at the same time Mings is trying to hurdle Zlatan which restricts where he can place his foot and then catches him, whereas Zlatans elbow is pure intent and retaliation, I was amazed Zlatan didn't get booked when he threw Mings to the ground early doors right in view of the ref!
		
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:rofl:your getting obsessed with Utd and Zlatan now:ears:


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## fundy (Mar 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Why do you always feel the need to bring Liverpool or Chelsea  into the conversation whenever Arsenal/ Wenger are spoken about?
		
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think that applies to at least one Liverpool fan on here when it suits them too


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## MegaSteve (Mar 5, 2017)

Get well soon Santi...

Missing you....


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			i was referring to your mood rather than actual words used. Strangely quiet and not not so opinionated when Liverpool lose but have much more to say about  rivals after a win or two.

My stance doesn't change from game to game as I appreciate the work Wenger has done and continues to do. 

So many people on here will switch from being champions one week to the world is ending the next. I prefer to take the ups and downs as they come each week and look at the big picture at the end of the year. Top 4 and a trophy is still a reality for us.

Question, do you think it's easy to finish top 4 in the PL 

If the answer to above is no then how can you knock Wenger for doing this for the past 20 years running.

If the answer is yes, why have Liverpool only managed it a handful of times, struggled last year and making it difficult this year?
		
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How do you know my mood ? Right now I'm extremely disappointed because of the way we have been since Xmas - annoyed about it all.

I didn't go into hiding when we lose unlike yourself who did a Houdini act after the Bayern match 

It's not about what is easy or hard - it's hard to win any game 

I will take Liverpools CL record over Arsenal's over the last 20 years - reason why - because we actually won it and challenge for it on a number of occasions. Would you prefer the Arsenal record


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## fundy (Mar 5, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How do you know my mood ? Right now I'm extremely disappointed because of the way we have been since Xmas - annoyed about it all.

I didn't go into hiding when we lose unlike yourself who did a Houdini act after the Bayern match 

It's not about what is easy or hard - it's hard to win any game 

I will take Liverpools CL record over Arsenal's over the last 20 years - reason why - because we actually won it and challenge for it on a number of occasions. Would you prefer the Arsenal record
		
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id take Arsenals total record over the last 20 years than Liverpools


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## sawtooth (Mar 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I've only just seen it on SSN. 

Amazingly though he never saw Zlatan's elbow. The  size of Zlatan he deserves a 3match ban for falling over from Surman's push. 

I'm not sure Mings meant to stamp on Zlatan's head I'd be prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt but Zlatan's elbow was definitely meant.
		
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That's how i see it too, think the FA will let Mings off but Zlatan will get a ban.

My first thought and I might have this wrong but it looked like Zlatan swung his elbow and in the furore that followed was pointing at his own head as if to say "did you see what he did to me first".


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## Slime (Mar 5, 2017)

How about this;
If he plays FOR United, he's obviously guilty and should get at least a three game retrospective ban for anything caught on camera.
If he plays AGAINST United, give him the benefit of the doubt as 'only he knows' whether the unfotunate incident was intentional or not.


That'll keep most of 'em happy.


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## sawtooth (Mar 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Why do you always feel the need to bring Liverpool or Chelsea  into the conversation whenever Arsenal/ Wenger are spoken about?
		
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It depends on what is being said and by who. Fundamentally though, Chelsea and City with their massive external wealth has changed the footballing landscape so it's pretty impossible not to mention them as it has had massive impact on Arsenal and other clubs inc. Liverpool.

Is it wrong for me to say that without City and Chelsea's money that Arsenal would have won more PL titles over the past 12 years. I really don't think so.

Question to you, yes or no?


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## Stuart_C (Mar 5, 2017)

Slime said:



			How about this;
If he plays FOR United, he's obviously guilty and should get at least a three game retrospective ban for anything caught on camera.
If he plays AGAINST United, give him the benefit of the doubt as 'only he knows' whether the unfotunate incident was intentional or not.


That'll keep most of 'em happy.
		
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What a load of Tosh. 

You may want to believe it's the case but my opinion of what I've just seen is exactly what I posted previously irrespective of who the teams involved.

Yes I have a dislike of Yernited but I don't let that cloud my opinion unlike some.


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## sawtooth (Mar 5, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How do you know my mood ? Right now I'm extremely disappointed because of the way we have been since Xmas - annoyed about it all.

I didn't go into hiding when we lose unlike yourself who did a Houdini act after the Bayern match 

It's not about what is easy or hard - it's hard to win any game 

I will take Liverpools CL record over Arsenal's over the last 20 years - reason why - because we actually won it and challenge for it on a number of occasions. Would you prefer the Arsenal record
		
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I expected a politicians answer and you didn't disappoint.

Yes or No? Difficult or Not to finish top 4.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			It depends on what is being said and by who. Fundamentally though, Chelsea and City with their massive external wealth has changed the footballing landscape so it's pretty impossible not to mention them as it has had massive impact on Arsenal and other clubs inc. Liverpool.

Is it wrong for me to say that without City and Chelsea's money that Arsenal would have won more PL titles over the past 12 years. I really don't think so.

Question to you, yes or no?
		
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It seems  whenever Arsenal or wenger is  criticised, your stock response  is " well  Klopp isn't.... Or Liverpool haven't..... Or any other response "  rather than debating the point.

Maybe Its just an armchair fan thing.
Answer to your question is no but you can't be so ignorant and call their success as false or a lie.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 5, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Nice to see the scousers posting again.
Funny how they seem overly busy when they aren't winning&#63027;
		
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Think you will find I did post after the loss to Leicster

post #8215.
I was very critical of reds 
and congratulated Licester.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 5, 2017)

fundy said:



			think that applies to at least one Liverpool fan on here when it suits them too
		
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Ive never seen his posts


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## sawtooth (Mar 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			It seems  whenever Arsenal or wenger is  criticised, your stock response  is " well  Klopp isn't.... Or Liverpool haven't..... Or any other response "  rather than debating the point.

Maybe Its just an armchair fan thing.
Answer to your question is no but you can't be so ignorant and call their success as false or a lie.
		
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I don't see a lot of debating going on though mate. Goading and sniping yes, debating no.

If someone asks Why did Wenger not start with Sanchez? then fair enough.

But usually it's  same old same old Wenger . doesn't even start his best player what a knob? Going backwards ha ha , groundhog day.

You see my point? It's not exactly the house of Lords is it? The Red Lion more like.


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## Imurg (Mar 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			That's how i see it too, think the FA will let Mings off but Zlatan will get a ban.

My first thought and I might have this wrong but it looked like Zlatan swung his elbow and in the furore that followed was pointing at his own head as if to say "did you see what he did to me first".
		
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Didn't the ref have a long chat with Zlatan after the incident?
It's going to depend on what he puts in his report
If he says he saw it and dealt with it as he saw it, is there anything the FA can do..?
Don't know, just asking....


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 5, 2017)

Imurg said:



			Didn't the ref have a long chat with Zlatan after the incident?
It's going to depend on what he puts in his report
If he says he saw it and dealt with it as he saw it, is there anything the FA can do..?
Don't know, just asking....
		
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If he booked him then no but don't think he did.


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## jp5 (Mar 5, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Two seasons ago I thought Wenger was a demi-god. Not anymore. Sadly, I agree with you. Time to be put out to pasture.
		
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His time has been up for a long while.

Yes there are financial restraints but as other teams have shown money is not everything.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 5, 2017)

Slime said:



			How about this;
If he plays FOR United, he's obviously guilty and should get at least a three game retrospective ban for anything caught on camera.
If he plays AGAINST United, give him the benefit of the doubt as 'only he knows' whether the unfotunate incident was intentional or not.


That'll keep most of 'em happy.
		
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Think Bournmouth were very physical and tried to upset certain Utd players and you have to say that worked .
Mings I am not sure as I said Only he knows but to me it didn't look good.
But you really can't defend that from Zlatan.
He would be the first name on my Prem team sheet and I think he is a great footballer which makes some of the things he does unexplainable there's just no need.
If he gets banned you could miss out on top four its just so unnecessary.


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## pokerjoke (Mar 5, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Think you will find I did post after the loss to Leicster

post #8215.
I was very critical of reds 
and congratulated Licester.
		
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This is true you did but all the others never.

Singing when your winning springs to mind


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## Fish (Mar 5, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			This is true you did but all the others never.

Singing when your winning springs to mind
		
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Or just away playing golf and enjoying each other's company, as that what meets away are all about.


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			Or just away playing golf and enjoying each other's company, as that what meets away are all about.
		
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You can't say that......this is a golf forum and football talk is all anyone should be taking part in, it's more important than life itself you know


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## richy (Mar 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			Or just away playing golf and enjoying each other's company, as that what meets away are all about.
		
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Didn't just happen after the Leicester result though. Saying that it's not all or just the Liverpool fans that do it.


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## pokerjoke (Mar 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			Or just away playing golf and enjoying each other's company, as that what meets away are all about.
		
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I agree meets are definitely about playing golf and having fun I don't think I have ever said different after all I have been on enough to know what goes on.

I have actually played with people who have been on the forum all round and have also posted whilst playing.

I believe I asked you before if you some signal or none it doesn't really matter though as I believe we can all see with our own eyes posters sometimes only post when it suits and there's no problem with that,just don't hide behind excuses when someone picks up on it.

We can see it goes on and this weekend is just another example.


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## Slime (Mar 5, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Think Bournmouth were very physical and tried to upset certain Utd players and you have to say that worked .
Mings I am not sure as I said Only he knows but to me it didn't look good.
*But you really can't defend that from Zlatan.*
He would be the first name on my Prem team sheet and I think he is a great footballer which makes some of the things he does unexplainable there's just no need.
If he gets banned you could miss out on top four its just so unnecessary.
		
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Correct, I wouldn't and can't defend what he did.
He should be retrospectively banned, no doubt.
A player just can't behave like that and the fact that he'd had his head trodden on is no excuse. It may well be why he reacted, but that's no excuse ................. he should get a retrospective ban.


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## Fish (Mar 5, 2017)

I could get a signal in my room through their wireless but in the bar it would very much depend on where you were sitting, also, many peoples batteries were so low from being on all day they came downstairs without their phones &#128563;

What I will say is, those Liverpool fans were rather quite in the bar when the footy was on, probably drowned out by me jumping up in the air shouting when Leicester scored &#128540;&#128563;&#128514;


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## Fish (Mar 5, 2017)

Excellent strike by Kane but shocking defence from Everton, especially from Barry, Kane allowed to take so many touches, look up twice and Barry turns his back &#128563;


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## anotherdouble (Mar 5, 2017)

Imurg said:



			Didn't the ref have a long chat with Zlatan after the incident?
It's going to depend on what he puts in his report
If he says he saw it and dealt with it as he saw it, is there anything the FA can do..?
Don't know, just asking....
		
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That correct Ian and that's how I saw it.




clubchamp98 said:



			If he booked him then no but don't think he did.
		
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Why does he have to have been booked?  If ref saw it and deemed no action needed and that's what's in his report then it's done and dusted. If he is talking to him over his moaning about the stamp but did not see elbow and reports he didn't see it then the FA can intervene


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 5, 2017)

I was at the Liverpool game yesterday, stood in the Kop. Literally stood as no one sat down all match. Haven't posted since the game as I've been busy scrubbing myself clean&#128513;. A neutrals observations:

Arsenal are still soft through the middle. Been the same now for 10+ years. Liverpool walked through them at times. I felt sorry for the centre halves as they were left to fend for themselves. Buy a proper defensive midfielder, simple. The Ox was the only decent attacker for arsenal first half. He put a shift in and I'd have him at Everton. Sanchez, he was an angry man. He fought with everyone and anyone yesterday. Final whistle, he ran down the tunnel. On your way son. He was poison for the team yesterday and no matter how good you are you can't have that.

Liverpool have a fluid and slick front four. Mane looked very, very good. Fast feet, fast legs, great control. Firminio gives the ball away a lot, too much. Good but sloppy. The big weakness is in goal. Mignolet, or Flappy as he shall now be known, is a cracking shot stopper but awful on crosses. He either doesn't come when he should or does come, flaps, misses or half punches. Playing Liverpool you just need to get wide and bang crosses in. The centre half's looked okay so put it closer to the keeper and attack him. You will have a field day. 

I can see why Liverpool win matches and I can see why they lose them. Entertaining stuff though.

By the way. This is a view from behind the goal. It may be different from an armchair&#128514;.


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## Fish (Mar 5, 2017)

Everton committing suicide & gifting this result to Spurs. Goal not Williams fault imo, Schneiderlin offered himself then panic passed!

Do they have a plan B &#129300;


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 5, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			That correct Ian and that's how I saw it.




Why does he have to have been booked?  If ref saw it and deemed no action needed and that's what's in his report then it's done and dusted. If he is talking to him over his moaning about the stamp but did not see elbow and reports he didn't see it then the FA can intervene
		
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He doesn't have to be booked I was just answering question of FA retrospective action.
I honestly think he did not see it as ,if he did he should have sent him off.
If he seen it and just told him off he should not be refereeing football matches.
I can't see how he would miss it as both went for the ball and refs always follow the ball , that's what they use when they miss something off the ball.


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## MegaSteve (Mar 5, 2017)

I know it's bad form to do manager envy... But, of the two currently on the box, I know which one I'd prefer make the short trip across to the Emirates...


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## Fish (Mar 5, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			I know it's bad form to do manager envy... But, of the two currently on the box, I know which one I'd prefer make the short trip across to the Emirates...
		
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I think a lot will depend on what/where Wenger goes though, I've said it before, if he goes upstairs I think he'll still interfere and that could put some off going there, if he goes altogether then fill yer boots. 

Goal.........good finish &#128077;


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## Dan2501 (Mar 5, 2017)

Quality finish on his weak foot that. Lukaku is so good!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2017)

The score certainly didn't reflect the game, Spurs are certainly only the 2nd team to batter us and at one stage thought it was looking like Chelsea away all over again.

1st defeat in 10, so still on a decent run and next 2 games at home and hopefully keep chasing top 6.


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## Jensen (Mar 5, 2017)

That was a rather nail bitting last 10 minutes plus injury time as Spurs fan.
Shame about Vertonghan  slip as he had an excellent game up to that point, Lukaku finish was good with his weaker side.
Only hope the Mackems do us a favour againt city.

Being a Yid, being a Yid, the thing I love most is being a Yid.....


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## Fish (Mar 5, 2017)

Jensen said:



			That was a rather nail bitting last 10 minutes plus injury time as Spurs fan.
Shame about Vertonghan  slip as he had an excellent game up to that point, Lukaku finish was good with his weaker side.
Only hope the Mackems do us a favour againt city.

Being a Yid, being a Yid, the thing I love most is being a Yid.....
		
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If I called you a Yid would you find it offensive?  I know many at Spurs have adopted it and sing and call themselves it, but I also know many at Spurs who still find it offensive! 

I'm sure if I used the term I'd get picked up on it and possibly get in trouble, so I don't personally,  imo, think you should use it either, wether your comfortable with it or not. 

Just saying....


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## fundy (Mar 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			If I called you a Yid would you find it offensive?  I know many at Spurs have adopted it and sing and call themselves it, but I also know many at Spurs who still find it offensive! 

I'm sure if I used the term I'd get picked up on it and possibly get in trouble, so I don't personally,  imo, think you should use it either, wether your comfortable with it or not. 

Just saying....
		
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spurs fan uses it fine, arsenal/chelsea fan uses it then theyre racist, always been like that!


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 5, 2017)

Dangerous precedent though. Using it makes it normal. Others copy because it's then out in the open. I would never use it or even think about the word as it is used in a derogatory manner on the whole. Best confined to history, surely.


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## fundy (Mar 5, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Dangerous precedent though. Using it makes it normal. Others copy because it's then out in the open. I would never use it or even think about the word as it is used in a derogatory manner on the whole. Best confined to history, surely.
		
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for sure. but have seen arsenal fans dragged out and arrested for using it whilst 5,000 spurs fan readily sing it at the other end of the ground


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## Jensen (Mar 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			If I called you a Yid would you find it offensive?  I know many at Spurs have adopted it and sing and call themselves it, but I also know many at Spurs who still find it offensive! 

I'm sure if I used the term I'd get picked up on it and possibly get in trouble, so I don't personally,  imo, think you should use it either, wether your comfortable with it or not. 

Just saying....
		
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It's a term of endearment. We sing it at Tottenham in response to it being used derogatory. Also Tottenham has a strong Jewish community and had Jewish owners i.e. Irving Scholar and Alan Sugar.
I've been called a Yid as a Tottenham fan in various degrees, some as banter and some not so. It doesn't bother me and although not Jewish, I'm Christian, I feel proud to be referred that way.
The Spurs fans have always referred to ourselves as Yids


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## fundy (Mar 5, 2017)

Jensen said:



			It's a term of endearment. We sing it at Tottenham in response to it being used derogatory. Also Tottenham has a strong Jewish community and had Jewish owners i.e. Irving Scholar and Alan Sugar.
I've been called a Yid as a Tottenham fan in various degrees, some as banter and some not so. It doesn't bother me and although not Jewish, I'm Christian, I feel proud to be referred that way.
The Spurs fans have always referred to ourselves as Yids
		
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do you accept that theres completely double standards when used by spurs/non spurs fans?


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## Slime (Mar 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			If I called you a Yid would you find it offensive?  I know many at Spurs have adopted it and sing and call themselves it, but I also know many at Spurs who still find it offensive! 

I'm sure if I used the term I'd get picked up on it and possibly get in trouble, so I don't personally,  imo, think you should use it either, wether your comfortable with it or not. 

Just saying....
		
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Just agreeing.....:thup:.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 5, 2017)

I understand the Jewish link but you can't control the use of a word. If people use a word like that as an insult then rather like the N word they are best consigned to history imo. Chanting it keeps it in the public eye rather than allowing it to die out. Take the food away from the trolls.


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## Jensen (Mar 5, 2017)

fundy said:



			do you accept that theres completely double standards when used by spurs/non spurs fans?
		
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Yes...as we, as I have said use it as a term of endearment, others use it to mock.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2017)

fundy said:



			do you accept that theres completely double standards when used by spurs/non spurs fans?
		
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The Met Police dropped Yid as an arrestable offence when chanted by Spurs fans in 2014, opposition fans can still be arrested for it as a racist chant, 

Not agreeing or disagreeing, just stating a fact


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## Fish (Mar 5, 2017)

Jensen said:



			It's a term of endearment. We sing it at Tottenham in response to it being used derogatory. Also Tottenham has a strong Jewish community and had Jewish owners i.e. Irving Scholar and Alan Sugar.
I've been called a Yid as a Tottenham fan in various degrees, some as banter and some not so. It doesn't bother me and although not Jewish, I'm Christian, I feel proud to be referred that way.
The Spurs fans have always referred to ourselves as Yids
		
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I didn't ask for s history lesson which I was more than aware of, I'd gather from your posts your in your 20's at best?

As has been said above by others, once used openly, as you do can it then become a common term and acceptable,  I'd say no!


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## fundy (Mar 5, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Yes...as we, as I have said use it as a term of endearment, others use it to mock.
		
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its the same word though, you cant use it yourself as a term of endearment then claim foul when someone elses uses it to describe you, utter double standards (as there has been for years)


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 5, 2017)

Slime said:



			Correct, I wouldn't and can't defend what he did.
He should be retrospectively banned, no doubt.
A player just can't behave like that and the fact that he'd had his head trodden on is no excuse. It may well be why he reacted, but that's no excuse ................. he should get a retrospective ban.
		
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Well I think getting your head trodden on is ample excuse but he is a very experienced international and should know better.
Loved watching Ronaldo play for you but he really annoyed me with all the play acting at first when he settled down and stopped it he was the joint best player I have ever seen live.
King Kenny Dalglish.


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## guest100718 (Mar 5, 2017)

We sang it in France,
We sang it in Spain,
We sing in the sun and we sing in the rain,
They've tried to stop us and look what it did,
Cos the thing I love most is being a Yid!
Being a Yid, Being a Yid,
The thing I love most is being a Yid!


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## fundy (Mar 5, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			We sang it in France,
We sang it in Spain,
We sing in the sun and we sing in the rain,
They've tried to stop us and look what it did,
Cos the thing I love most is being a Yid!
Being a Yid, Being a Yid,
The thing I love most is being a Yid!
		
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yet you cry like bitches when other fans sing variants of this or different songs about what you love being


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## guest100718 (Mar 5, 2017)

do i?


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## fundy (Mar 5, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			do i?
		
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you as in "spurs fans"


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## Jensen (Mar 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			I didn't ask for s history lesson which I was more than aware of, I'd gather from your posts your in your 20's at best?

!
		
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Sadly no, I was part of the 60's boom.

I take it from your tone you sit near to a Mr David Biddeal at Stamford Bridge


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 5, 2017)

fundy said:



			its the same word though, you cant use it yourself as a term of endearment then claim foul when someone elses uses it to describe you, utter double standards (as there has been for years)
		
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It's the same as the N word.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 5, 2017)

fundy said:



			its the same word though, you cant use it yourself as a term of endearment then claim foul when someone elses uses it to describe you, utter double standards (as there has been for years)
		
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I have been saying exactly the same when black people use the N word and then are not happy when white people use it.
Again though, sometimes it is not the word that is said, but how the word is said and in what context.


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## guest100718 (Mar 5, 2017)

fundy said:



			you as in "spurs fans"
		
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when it comes to whiney bitches i doubt there's anyone on here whinier than you


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## Tashyboy (Mar 5, 2017)

Why he has not started with De Bryune is beyond me.


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## fundy (Mar 5, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			when it comes to whiney bitches i doubt there's anyone on here whinier than you
		
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Keyboard warrior strikes lol


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 5, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Why he has not started with De Bryune is beyond me.
		
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I think I'm right in saying your record up there recently is not great, maybe wrong. Either way, not a game to take lightly. Put your best team out, get 3 points and move on. Sunderland are looking decent so far.


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## Fish (Mar 5, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Sadly no, I was part of the 60's boom.

I take it from your tone you sit near to a Mr David Biddeal at Stamford Bridge
		
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My tone?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 5, 2017)

fundy said:



			id take Arsenals total record over the last 20 years than Liverpools
		
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CL record ? Not overall record

Edit : also trying to get the thread back to football


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## Tashyboy (Mar 5, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think I'm right in saying your record up there recently is not great, maybe wrong. Either way, not a game to take lightly. Put your best team out, get 3 points and move on. Sunderland are looking decent so far.
		
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Of late we have won the last four up there, but we did go through a real bad patch.
Sterling is having an off day. Ad take him off put silva wide and de Bryune in the middle.
Always get nervous when one up and not taking chances. This seasons history has proved that.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 5, 2017)

My dodgy memory, happy to be corrected. You don't look comfortable out there. One of those games you just have to win, don't worry about how.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I expected a politicians answer and you didn't disappoint.

Yes or No? Difficult or Not to finish top 4.
		
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No one has said it's easy to finish in the top 4.

Arsenal have qualified for the CL regualry - yep decent achievement which shows where in the trophy cabinet or the honours list ? Is that the height of the ambition to just take part ? How about actually winning something of note in that period. 

Arsenal are one of the biggest richest clubs in Europe ( top 10 I believe ) - as a business model is unbelievably successful will lots of cash coming in and not much going out but as a football club i expect a lot of people will say for the club they are the last ten years or since they last won the title its been a poor return - No league titles , no CL and teams with less resources have won both or at least got to finals.

Surely as an Arsenal fan you want more than just qualifying for the CL - you are a fan of one of the biggest clubs in the world and right now the results on the pitch are imo not good enough and that goes back to - not a lack of money or resources , not Chelsea and City have billions but the managers lack of ambition and being afraid to take risks in the transfer market. There have been a number of signings that Wenger could have made over the ten years which imo would have given Arsenal that extra bit more to get over the final hurdle. 

I think it's now in the critical stage for Arsenal - fail to get top 4 and everything tumbles.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 5, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			My dodgy memory, happy to be corrected. You don't look comfortable out there. One of those games you just have to win, don't worry about how.
		
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And then there is 10 seconds of class and it should be game over.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 5, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Of late we have won the last four up there, but we did go through a real bad patch.
Sterling is having an off day. Ad take him off put silva wide and de Bryune in the middle.
Always get nervous when one up and not taking chances. This seasons history has proved that.
		
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what a good player Sane is up and down always a end product.
great goal also but like to watch De Bryne he is quality 
Sunderland not enough quality on the ball.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 5, 2017)

No great revelation or insight with this comment but I can easily see the current bottom three remaining as the bottom three. I'm not sure that any of them have the quality to put a run together in the way th a Swansea or Leicester have recently.


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## Hobbit (Mar 5, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No great revelation or insight with this comment but I can easily see the current bottom three remaining as the bottom three. I'm not sure that any of them have the quality to put a run together in the way th a Swansea or Leicester have recently.
		
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Boro certainly don't have a goalscorer, nor anyone from midfield regularly chipping in a few. We're doomed, doomed I tell thee!


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## sawtooth (Mar 5, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No one has said it's easy to finish in the top 4.

Arsenal have qualified for the CL regualry - yep decent achievement which shows where in the trophy cabinet or the honours list ? Is that the height of the ambition to just take part ? How about actually winning something of note in that period. 

Arsenal are one of the biggest richest clubs in Europe ( top 10 I believe ) - as a business model is unbelievably successful will lots of cash coming in and not much going out but as a football club i expect a lot of people will say for the club they are the last ten years or since they last won the title its been a poor return - No league titles , no CL and teams with less resources have won both or at least got to finals.

Surely as an Arsenal fan you want more than just qualifying for the CL - you are a fan of one of the biggest clubs in the world and right now the results on the pitch are imo not good enough and that goes back to - not a lack of money or resources , not Chelsea and City have billions but the managers lack of ambition and being afraid to take risks in the transfer market. There have been a number of signings that Wenger could have made over the ten years which imo would have given Arsenal that extra bit more to get over the final hurdle. 

I think it's now in the critical stage for Arsenal - fail to get top 4 and everything tumbles.
		
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Everything tumbles? You are having a laugh. Arsenal are in an exceptional position and the next man coming in will have a fantastic opportunity. 

And according to you Arsenal have been tumbling for the past 13 years which is absolute rubbish. 

And if Man U can claim the EFL Cup as a major trophy then I' sure as hell claiming the 2 FA Cups in the past few years. 

And if you rotate managers just because they don't win the League or CL then you will be going through a lot of managers. Do you think Spurs will sack Poch if he guides them to top 4 for the next 5 years without winning a trophy? Absolutely no chance, he'd be idolised and rightly so.

Spurs as good as they are will finish 6-7! next year away from the lane. No fault of their own, but Wembley pitch is bigger than WHL and they will also miss the atmosphere.

Do they sack Poch then? Again no chance.

It's not all about winning the league and CL. Unless you are Barcelona or Madrid.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Everything tumbles? You are having a laugh. Arsenal are in an exceptional position and the next man coming in will have a fantastic opportunity. 

And according to you Arsenal have been tumbling for the past 13 years which is absolute rubbish. 

And if Man U can claim the EFL Cup as a major trophy then I' sure as hell claiming the 2 FA Cups in the past few years. 

And if you rotate managers just because they don't win the League or CL then you will be going through a lot of managers. Do you think Spurs will sack Poch if he guides them to top 4 for the next 5 years without winning a trophy? Absolutely no chance, he'd be idolised and rightly so.

Spurs as good as they are will finish 6-7! next year away from the lane. No fault of their own, but Wembley pitch is bigger than WHL and they will also miss the atmosphere.

Do they sack Poch then? Again no chance.

It's not all about winning the league and CL. Unless you are Barcelona or Madrid.
		
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Why are you bringing Spurs into it ? Are Arsenal the same level of club as Spurs ? Is that a fair comparison.

What happens if Arsenal aren't in the CL when the next man comes in ? Is that really a exceptional position ? Players looking to leave - possibly due to lack of CL unable to attract the better players unless willing to spend big. The team isn't bursting with exceptional young talent ready to take on the world - Arsenal as a business model maybe in good standing but on the pitch ? Maybe not as good. 

Clubs do sack managers when they don't achieve the expectations- we have sacked managers because they were not reaching the level the fans expect. Don't Arsenal fans expect the top trophies to be in their cabinet ? 

And yes it is all about winning the league and CL for the big clubs in Europe - that should always be the aim. Winning one CL for me trumps qualifying for 20 years - would you swap qualifying all those years for one win


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 5, 2017)

Here's a crazy idea,why not just agree to disagree. 
Instead of just making the same points over & over & over again.


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## sawtooth (Mar 5, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why are you bringing Spurs into it ? Are Arsenal the same level of club as Spurs ? Is that a fair comparison.

What happens if Arsenal aren't in the CL when the next man comes in ? Is that really a exceptional position ? Players looking to leave - possibly due to lack of CL unable to attract the better players unless willing to spend big. The team isn't bursting with exceptional young talent ready to take on the world - Arsenal as a business model maybe in good standing but on the pitch ? Maybe not as good. 

Clubs do sack managers when they don't achieve the expectations- we have sacked managers because they were not reaching the level the fans expect. Don't Arsenal fans expect the top trophies to be in their cabinet ? 

And yes it is all about winning the league and CL for the big clubs in Europe - that should always be the aim. Winning one CL for me trumps qualifying for 20 years - would you swap qualifying all those years for one win
		
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Because it helps to prove my point.

There are similarities with Spurs they are going down the same path with the stadium move and will be interesting to see how Spurs manage the situation. 

 Klopp and Liverpool will prove my point also and possibly Koeman and Everton too. Top 4 is acceptable maybe not in your eyes though.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			CL record ? Not overall record

Edit : also trying to get the thread back to football 

Click to expand...

When you say trying to get the thread back to football, do you actually mean you having a go at Arsenal fans and Sean in particular?


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## Tashyboy (Mar 5, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Here's a crazy idea,why not just agree to disagree. 
Instead of just making the same points over & over & over again.
		
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You boring sod, some of us like Groundhog Day 

That aside, City have clean sheets for last five away games. Eh, how's that happen. First look at Pickford and ah was impressed with him..
Thank god that banana skin has gone.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 5, 2017)

How good is Harry Kane? 
Better than Lukaku,but I'd still put Aguero above him.


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## One Planer (Mar 5, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			How good is Harry Kane? 
Better than Lukaku,but I'd still put Aguero above him.
		
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I'll be surprised if no one comes in for him in the summer!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			You boring sod, some of us like Groundhog Day 

That aside, City have clean sheets for last five away games. Eh, how's that happen. First look at Pickford and ah was impressed with him..
Thank god that banana skin has gone.
		
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It's pathetic mate, even his fellow rednoses have asked him to turn it in.

I hope for Pickfords sake he gets at least another season at Sunderland (even in the championship) I'd hated to see another bright prospect warming a bench in the PL.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			How good is Harry Kane? 
Better than Lukaku,but I'd still put Aguero above him.
		
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Kane hopefully will show it at international level, personally think Lukaku is better, but Kane is in a better team.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 5, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			You boring sod, some of us like Groundhog Day 

That aside, City have clean sheets for last five away games. Eh, how's that happen. First look at Pickford and ah was impressed with him..
Thank god that banana skin has gone.
		
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I think Sawtooth is probably on the wind up & ArsenalPhil just gets a bit excited when his Wenger alarm goes off.

Sane is looking very good. 
How long is Jesus out for?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Because it helps to prove my point.

There are similarities with Spurs they are going down the same path with the stadium move and will be interesting to see how Spurs manage the situation. 

 Klopp and Liverpool will prove my point also and possibly Koeman and Everton too. Top 4 is acceptable maybe not in your eyes though.
		
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Spurs haven't been one of the top teams in England for the last 30 years though - Arsenal have. Spurs are now coming into the picture over the last couple years but I don't see Spurs moving forward beyond a top 4 because they will end up selling their top players when the Madrid come calling. 

CL Qualfiying would be a start for us - a start , a stepping stone to bigger things , to challenge for big trophies - I don't want to just qualify - want to see silverware being raised - if silverware doesn't arrive over the coming years then Klopp will more than likely leave. Not sure what Everton and Koeman have to do with it - expect him to leave when Barcelona come along - same with Lukaku etc. 

Right now Arsenal charge the highest ticket prices in the league - do you not think for that you need to be alongside the Chelsea and City and United - as opposed to Spurs Liverpool and Everton ?


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## Papas1982 (Mar 5, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Kane hopefully will show it at international level, personally think Lukaku is better, but Kane is in a better team.
		
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I think when Lukaka is on it he is slightly better. But think Kane a little more consistent. 

I agree re intl, Kane needs to get a few more goals before his head drops.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I think when Lukaka is on it he is slightly better. But think Kane a little more consistent. 

I agree re intl, Kane needs to get a few more goals before his head drops.
		
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If it's consistencey then currently Lukaku has a better record, Kane needs to do it for a few more seasons to match Lukaku.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Spurs haven't been one of the top teams in England for the last 30 years though - Arsenal have. Spurs are now coming into the picture over the last couple years but I don't see Spurs moving forward beyond a top 4 because they will end up selling their top players when the Madrid come calling. 

CL Qualfiying would be a start for us - a start , a stepping stone to bigger things , to challenge for big trophies - I don't want to just qualify - want to see silverware being raised - if silverware doesn't arrive over the coming years then Klopp will more than likely leave. Not sure what Everton and Koeman have to do with it - expect him to leave when Barcelona come along - same with Lukaku etc. 

Right now Arsenal charge the highest ticket prices in the league - do you not think for that you need to be alongside the Chelsea and City and United - as opposed to Spurs Liverpool and Everton ?
		
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And Klopp will go if Bayern come knocking, and Coutinho would go to Barca or Real, let's not pretend your lot are anymore loyal than anyone else.


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## Slime (Mar 5, 2017)

vs    
	
	
		
		
	


	




    =    
	
	
		
		
	


	






Please can you to do the L'pool vs Arsenal thing via PM's?


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## Fish (Mar 5, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			And Klopp will go if Bayern come knocking, and Coutinho would go to Barca or Real, let's not pretend your lot are anymore loyal than anyone else.
		
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Why would Bayern come knocking if Dortmund got rid of him, Bayern is top of the food chain, no disrect to Klopp but that train has left over their for him imo


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			Why would Bayern come knocking if Dortmund got rid of him, Bayern is top of the food chain, no disrect to Klopp but that train has left over their for him imo
		
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Same as the Koeman report, both mentioned in newspapers, Klopp linked with Bayern in Jan.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			Why would Bayern come knocking if Dortmund got rid of him, Bayern is top of the food chain, no disrect to Klopp but that train has left over their for him imo
		
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Of course he would. He'd certainly go if offered the national job as well. In fact were one of the top clubs in Europe to come knocking I wouldn't be surprised to see him go. Same applies to the Spurs manager as well. That said, I'm enjoying Spurs this season and would love to see them invest big and really go for the PL. Not sure that will happen but if they continue to grow I can see them in the shake up next year.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			Why would Bayern come knocking if Dortmund got rid of him, Bayern is top of the food chain, no disrect to Klopp but that train has left over their for him imo
		
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Dortmund didn't get rid of Klopp

And why wouldn't Bayern go knocking for him - he has proven himself in Germany and shown he can win in Germany. 

Regardless of any club loyalties Klopp is highly regarded within the game


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 5, 2017)

Slime said:








     vs    
	
	
		
		
	


	




    =    
	
	
		
		
	


	






Please can you to do the L'pool vs Arsenal thing via PM's?
		
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Sorry would you prefer we allowed you post remarks about people's intelligence because they disagree with your opinion ?!

This thread over the last couple of weeks is full of threats and insults along with multiple cheap digs - whilst me and Sean may post passionately about our clubs at least we do it with respect and don't resort to insulting each other. 

I'm really sorry for talking about football on the football thread


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## Papas1982 (Mar 5, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			If it's consistencey then currently Lukaku has a better record, Kane needs to do it for a few more seasons to match Lukaku.
		
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I'd argue that Kane's 3 seasons easily match Lukaku. Lukaku may have had more season in prem. but this is first one where his goal scoring has been as efficient as Kane's. 

Kane has had 3 season and scored 20 plus in each. Lukaku yet to do it once. 

id take a fully firing Lukaku over a Kane. But he doesn't do it enough for me. Kane the safer bet for a team hoping to challenge.


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## Fish (Mar 5, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Of course he would. He'd certainly go if offered the national job as well. In fact were one of the top clubs in Europe to come knocking I wouldn't be surprised to see him go. Same applies to the Spurs manager as well. That said, I'm enjoying Spurs this season and would love to see them invest big and really go for the PL. Not sure that will happen but if they continue to grow I can see them in the shake up next year.
		
Click to expand...

I think you need to read my post properly, of course he would possibly go if they came knocking, but if you take the time to read my reply, I asked why would they (Bayern), I don't think they would.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry would you prefer we allowed you post remarks about people's intelligence because they disagree with your opinion ?!

This thread over the last couple of weeks is full of threats and insults along with multiple cheap digs - whilst me and Sean may post passionately about our clubs at least we do it with respect and don't resort to insulting each other. 

I'm really sorry for talking about football on the football thread
		
Click to expand...

Ha Ha Forum gold, you are killing this thread with the constant Arsenal baiting, if you really had that much respect for his opinion you'd accept it, regardless of whether you disagree with it or not.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I'd argue that Kane's 3 seasons easily match Lukaku. Lukaku may have had more season in prem. but this is first one where his goal scoring has been as efficient as Kane's. 

Kane has had 3 season and scored 20 plus in each. Lukaku yet to do it once. 

id take a fully firing Lukaku over a Kane. But he doesn't do it enough for me. Kane the safer bet for a team hoping to challenge.
		
Click to expand...

Have already said Kane is currently in a better side, Lukaku was the 4th or 5th youngest player to reach 50 PL goals and seeing as he's done it for teams of lesser quality says more for me.


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## Fish (Mar 5, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Dortmund didn't get rid of Klopp

And why wouldn't Bayern go knocking for him - he has proven himself in Germany and shown he can win in Germany. 

Regardless of any club loyalties Klopp is highly regarded within the game
		
Click to expand...

I gave you some facts & figures a bit back after doing some research, yes Klopp won in Germany with Dortmund but they never really improved stats wise that much, Bayern faltered for 2 years and Klopps Dortmund's stepped in, but then Dortmund really struggled then for a while when Bayern started dominating again. 

I personally don't think he's a long term manager, he has his way of going things and that will work short term, without a strong squad with quality on the bench to support his style it's a short spurt success without huge investment, do that and yes, you could have a winner!


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## Papas1982 (Mar 5, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Have already said Kane is currently in a better side, Lukaku was the 4th or 5th youngest player to reach 50 PL goals and seeing as he's done it for teams of lesser quality says more for me.
		
Click to expand...

Well maybe if he gets that second chance at a big team like he seems to crave each summer he can scored 30 goals...... &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Well maybe if he gets that second chance at a big team like he seems to crave each summer he can scored 30 goals...... &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;
		
Click to expand...

Probably :thup:


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## Hobbit (Mar 5, 2017)

I think Klopp will get L'pool to 2nd comfortably. Then its down to the board to back him further. Chelsea to remain at the top for a wee while, L'pool 2nd or 3rd depending on how well Spurs do going forward.

After that... Utd andEverton to grow whilst Arsenal fade. Who gets 4th? One of those, with an expectation it will be Jose sorting Utd out.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 5, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry would you prefer we allowed you post remarks about people's intelligence because they disagree with your opinion ?!

This thread over the last couple of weeks is full of threats and insults along with multiple cheap digs - whilst me and Sean may post passionately about our clubs at least we do it with respect and don't resort to insulting each other. 

I'm really sorry for talking about football on the football thread
		
Click to expand...

So you think making the same points over and over again about Wenger is posting passionately&#128584;

How can you not be bored by it?
Ok Wenger as had his day at Arsenal,I agree. 
But obviously Sawtooth doesn't. 
Just move on &#128077;&#127995;
Are you just hoping that you can eventually bore the life out of ST so that he agrees with you?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			I think Klopp will get L'pool to 2nd comfortably. Then its down to the board to back him further. Chelsea to remain at the top for a wee while, L'pool 2nd or 3rd depending on how well Spurs do going forward.

After that... Utd andEverton to grow whilst Arsenal fade. Who gets 4th? One of those, with an expectation it will be Jose sorting Utd out.
		
Click to expand...

Man City to be relegated? :whoo:


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 5, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			I think Klopp will get L'pool to 2nd comfortably. Then its down to the board to back him further. Chelsea to remain at the top for a wee while, L'pool 2nd or 3rd depending on how well Spurs do going forward.

After that... Utd andEverton to grow whilst Arsenal fade. Who gets 4th? One of those, with an expectation it will be Jose sorting Utd out.
		
Click to expand...

City?


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## Fish (Mar 5, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			I think Klopp will get L'pool to 2nd comfortably. Then its down to the board to back him further. Chelsea to remain at the top for a wee while, L'pool 2nd or 3rd depending on how well Spurs do going forward.

After that... Utd andEverton to grow whilst Arsenal fade. Who gets 4th? One of those, with an expectation it will be Jose sorting Utd out.
		
Click to expand...

I could agree with this but only if Liverpool spend well and big enough and bring in a quality bench as they'd then be playing more matches than they are now and we are already seeing tiredness & injuries and along with suspensions there isn't enough quality in reserve to compete across the board, imo.

Where's City &#129300;


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## Hobbit (Mar 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			Where's City &#63764;
		
Click to expand...

oops!

City to fight for 4th. Its an old squad and a dodgy, flaky manager. I think they'll have another manager in a season or so. Pep doesn't seem to cope with the Prem very well.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			I gave you some facts & figures a bit back after doing some research, yes Klopp won in Germany with Dortmund but they never really improved stats wise that much, Bayern faltered for 2 years and Klopps Dortmund's stepped in, but then Dortmund really struggled then for a while when Bayern started dominating again. 

I personally don't think he's a long term manager, he has his way of going things and that will work short term, without a strong squad with quality on the bench to support his style it's a short spurt success without huge investment, do that and yes, you could have a winner!
		
Click to expand...

Improved stats wise ? 

The only stat that mattered was the one that said - title x2 , he won back to back titles with them plus getting to a CL Final 

Would you downgrade Conte Italian league wins because it's pretty much a one team league now and Conte won his title with that team 

Is Klopp long term ? Who knows - he may want to move on after a couple of years or he may feel at home at stay on ? No idea but i do know it's tthe best prospect for a great future we have had for a while now


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think you need to read my post properly, of course he would possibly go if they came knocking, but if you take the time to read my reply, I asked why would they (Bayern), I don't think they would.
		
Click to expand...

I did and it's why I expanded it to the other top clubs in Europe. I don't think Bayern will call nor will the German FA but in either case he'd go. Why not as they are the two best jobs in his home country.


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## Slime (Mar 5, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry would you prefer we allowed you post remarks about people's intelligence because they disagree with your opinion ?!

This thread over the last couple of weeks is full of threats and insults along with multiple cheap digs - whilst me and Sean may post passionately about our clubs at least we do it with respect and don't resort to insulting each other. 

I'm really sorry for talking about football on the football thread
		
Click to expand...

I don't really care whether or not people agree or disagree with my opinion.
I also have no probs with you or Sean posting your respective opinions .................. it's just the regularity of the same points that is getting a bit tedious. 
We know where you both stand regarding Wenger, and for what it's worth I totally agree with you on this, but neither of you are going to change the other's mind so please just let it go.
Maybe review the argument at the end of the season when you both finish outside the top four .

Oh, and if I've insulted or name called anybody I apologise, although I can't recall doing so.


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## Fish (Mar 5, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I did and it's why I expanded it to the other top clubs in Europe. I don't think Bayern will call nor will the German FA but in either case he'd go. Why not as they are the two best jobs in his home country.
		
Click to expand...

I NEVER said he wouldn't go because I wasn't commenting on that, I said WHY would Bayern come calling when I personally don't think he did enough at Dortmund, ok I know he won 2 titles when Bayern had a 2 year wobble for whatever reason but then they came back and dominated again and Dortmund fell a away. 

But for arguments sake and my last word on the matter, yes if Bayern or his country came knocking of course he would go, but I never questioned that.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 5, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Man City to be relegated? :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

 Not be the first time in my lifetime, anyway the pies are cheaper and better in the first div. &#128513;


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## Tashyboy (Mar 5, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			oops!

City to fight for 4th. Its an old squad and a dodgy, flaky manager. I think they'll have another manager in a season or so. Pep doesn't seem to cope with the Prem very well.
		
Click to expand...

Pep has already told, Clichy, Sagna, Navas, YaYa, Zabaleta and a couple of others they ha three months to prove they are worthy of a new contract.
Ie, they will soon be gone. He is coping very well, 3 rd with a game in hand, last eight in FA cup and close to last eight in Champs league with an aging squad. Most fans are more than happy with Pep. Will be here for a bit yet.
if he is fighting for 4th it is with Liverpool and spuds, coz Utd and Arsenal are out of it.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 5, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			This is true you did but all the others never.

Singing when your winning springs to mind
		
Click to expand...




pokerjoke said:



			I agree meets are definitely about playing golf and having fun I don't think I have ever said different after all I have been on enough to know what goes on.

I have actually played with people who have been on the forum all round and have also posted whilst playing.

I believe I asked you before if you some signal or none it doesn't really matter though as I believe we can all see with our own eyes posters sometimes only post when it suits and there's no problem with that,just don't hide behind excuses when someone picks up on it.

We can see it goes on and this weekend is just another example.
		
Click to expand...

Name, names.

If its directed at me (amongst others), you will see from this thread that I have hardly posted in the last few months, apart from on one subject that I couldn't let pass.

In one I was referred to as "your kind", amongst other things - it wasn't elaborated on, although the poster was given ample opportunity.

"My kind" were also called Bindippers and told to get back to our holes on the day that Man U won their most recent trophy.

Do you not stop to ask why I/we should carry on when this is becoming common? 

I joined this forum to talk about golf, and throughout 6 years I have made loads of true friends, and lots of buddies. I didnt join it to make enemies, but that list is getting longer, and mainly down to this thread. 

You accuse us Liverpool fans about hiding when it suits - we've only won one trophy in 5 years, so hardly riding the glory years, and yet 4-5 of us have been more than regular posters over them years. You may also find that some United fans have found their way to this thread a lot more than the previous 3 years........

I may carry on with it, as genuinely still read it, as enjoy different perspectives on matches, but seriously trying hard not to post, due to the above reasons. I wish I had Blue in Munich's willpower, as he is someone who is sorely missed on here, and i would gladly debate footy with him till the cows come home, given the chance. I met Papas for the first time last week, and was made up to meet him, as he is also a top bloke on here. 

Maybe, if you werent trying to bait LiverpoolPhil as much, due to your unrequited love affair, your post would get more credence.

So, thats my excuse.

StuC - your right on him though, he just bails when it doesnt suit.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 5, 2017)

Looks like PJ won't be getting an invite or handshake off Sinbad in future &#128563;


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## Stuart_C (Mar 5, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Name, names.

If its directed at me (amongst others), you will see from this thread that I have hardly posted in the last few months, apart from on one subject that I couldn't let pass.

In one I was referred to as "your kind", amongst other things - it wasn't elaborated on, although the poster was given ample opportunity.

"My kind" were also called Bindippers and told to get back to our holes on the day that Man U won their most recent trophy.

Do you not stop to ask why I/we should carry on when this is becoming common? 

I joined this forum to talk about golf, and throughout 6 years I have made loads of true friends, and lots of buddies. I didnt join it to make enemies, but that list is getting longer, and mainly down to this thread. 

You accuse us Liverpool fans about hiding when it suits - we've only won one trophy in 5 years, so hardly riding the glory years, and yet 4-5 of us have been more than regular posters over them years. You may also find that some United fans have found their way to this thread a lot more than the previous 3 years........

I may carry on with it, as genuinely still read it, as enjoy different perspectives on matches, but seriously trying hard not to post, due to the above reasons. I wish I had Blue in Munich's willpower, as he is someone who is sorely missed on here, and i would gladly debate footy with him till the cows come home, given the chance. I met Papas for the first time last week, and was made up to meet him, as he is also a top bloke on here. 

Maybe, if you werent trying to bait LiverpoolPhil as much, due to your unrequited love affair, your post would get more credence.

So, thats my excuse.

StuC - your right on him though, he just bails when it doesnt suit.

Click to expand...

I never knew we were so popular:rofl:


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## Hobbit (Mar 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I never knew we were so popular:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Don't worry, you're not. Pete is though.


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## The Evertonian (Mar 5, 2017)

....For the record; Everton were beaten by the better team today.

There...I've shown my face! 

*legs it


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 5, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Don't worry, you're not. Pete is though.
		
Click to expand...

:rofl:

Sorry were people criticising some Liverpool posters because they didn't post after the Leicester match ?! 

They do know we were at a meet in a pub socialising with other forummers and talking to them about it over the days ! I guess we need to get the priorities straight and forget the social conversations we were having and jump onto the smart phones and post on the thread instead.


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## chrisd (Mar 5, 2017)

Coo, i met Pete last week ............ does he support Liverpool!


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## Stuart_C (Mar 5, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Don't worry, you're not. Pete is though.
		
Click to expand...

Thank Christ for that.....















:rant: :rofl:


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## Fish (Mar 5, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Don't worry, you're not. Pete is though.
		
Click to expand...

I reckon their our Millican & Nesbitt &#128514;&#128514;


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## Papas1982 (Mar 5, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Name, names.

If its directed at me (amongst others), you will see from this thread that I have hardly posted in the last few months, apart from on one subject that I couldn't let pass.

In one I was referred to as "your kind", amongst other things - it wasn't elaborated on, although the poster was given ample opportunity.

"My kind" were also called Bindippers and told to get back to our holes on the day that Man U won their most recent trophy.

Do you not stop to ask why I/we should carry on when this is becoming common? 

I joined this forum to talk about golf, and throughout 6 years I have made loads of true friends, and lots of buddies. I didnt join it to make enemies, but that list is getting longer, and mainly down to this thread. 

You accuse us Liverpool fans about hiding when it suits - we've only won one trophy in 5 years, so hardly riding the glory years, and yet 4-5 of us have been more than regular posters over them years. You may also find that some United fans have found their way to this thread a lot more than the previous 3 years........

I may carry on with it, as genuinely still read it, as enjoy different perspectives on matches, but seriously trying hard not to post, due to the above reasons. I wish I had Blue in Munich's willpower, as he is someone who is sorely missed on here, and i would gladly debate footy with him till the cows come home, given the chance. I met Papas for the first time last week, and was made up to meet him, as he is also a top bloke on here. 

Maybe, if you werent trying to bait LiverpoolPhil as much, due to your unrequited love affair, your post would get more credence.

So, thats my excuse.

StuC - your right on him though, he just bails when it doesnt suit.

Click to expand...

Having met a few Of the scousers on here recently I have to admit I'm struggling to dislike Liverpool quite as much as I want to!

a few of the Chelsea bunch were alright too!

even met an arsenal fan who spoke sense too. 

This forum, or this thread at least seems to cause more grief than its worth on occasion. But aside from the few who only post to get a reaction. when in the pub, all were sensible enough to chat too. Even the drunk ones who had the same conversation 3 times......


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## Fish (Mar 5, 2017)

Wow, some posts are disappearing quick &#128540;


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## Fish (Mar 5, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Having met a few Of the scousers on here recently I have to admit I'm struggling to dislike Liverpool quite as much as I want to!

a few of the Chelsea bunch were alright too!

even met an arsenal fan who spoke sense too. 

This forum, or this thread at least seems to cause more grief than its worth on occasion. But aside from the few who only post to get a reaction. when in the pub, all were sensible enough to chat too. Even the drunk ones who had the same conversation 3 times......
		
Click to expand...

A few, who didn't make the cut &#128540;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			Wow, some posts are disappearing quick &#128540;
		
Click to expand...

Just one of mine Robin, next one was an inbound ban!


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## Papas1982 (Mar 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			A few, who didn't make the cut &#63004;
		
Click to expand...

I only met 3, didn't I?

That's a few in my book......
I was amazed that some weren't anywhere near as much trouble as expected lol


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## Stuart_C (Mar 5, 2017)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2i-JrQI6hWQ


Can somebody enlighten me who fam and blud is please.


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## pokerjoke (Mar 5, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Name, names.

If its directed at me (amongst others), you will see from this thread that I have hardly posted in the last few months, apart from on one subject that I couldn't let pass.

In one I was referred to as "your kind", amongst other things - it wasn't elaborated on, although the poster was given ample opportunity.

"My kind" were also called Bindippers and told to get back to our holes on the day that Man U won their most recent trophy.

Do you not stop to ask why I/we should carry on when this is becoming common? 

I joined this forum to talk about golf, and throughout 6 years I have made loads of true friends, and lots of buddies. I didnt join it to make enemies, but that list is getting longer, and mainly down to this thread. 

You accuse us Liverpool fans about hiding when it suits - we've only won one trophy in 5 years, so hardly riding the glory years, and yet 4-5 of us have been more than regular posters over them years. You may also find that some United fans have found their way to this thread a lot more than the previous 3 years........

I may carry on with it, as genuinely still read it, as enjoy different perspectives on matches, but seriously trying hard not to post, due to the above reasons. I wish I had Blue in Munich's willpower, as he is someone who is sorely missed on here, and i would gladly debate footy with him till the cows come home, given the chance. I met Papas for the first time last week, and was made up to meet him, as he is also a top bloke on here. 

Maybe, if you werent trying to bait LiverpoolPhil as much, due to your unrequited love affair, your post would get more credence.

So, thats my excuse.

StuC - your right on him though, he just bails when it doesnt suit.

Click to expand...


Well quite surprised by your response to be honest Pete but if I had mentioned names that might have helped,i didn't mean you at all and you probably knew that as you said you don't post much.

Stu doesn't either, but I bail when it doesn't suit?

As for any unrequited love for Phil I think your way off the mark there.

I think I will give the football thread a miss from now on also as I certainly don't want to fall out with anyone over a game that has turned soft and saturated with too much money.

This thread was purely banter for me at the start amongst friends and obviously that has changed over time it was nothing personal.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2i-JrQI6hWQ


Can somebody enlighten me who fam and blud is please.

Click to expand...

I've put it into Google translate and it came up as not recognised&#128513;. Do people in parts of London actually speak like that?


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## Hobbit (Mar 5, 2017)

chrisd said:



			Coo, i met Pete last week ............ does he support Liverpool!
		
Click to expand...

Did he have his curly wig and Galvin Green shell suit on?


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## Stuart_C (Mar 5, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I've put it into Google translate and it came up as not recognised&#128513;. Do people in parts of London actually speak like that?
		
Click to expand...

It's street talk innit blud:rofl:


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 5, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Well quite surprised by your response to be honest Pete but if I had mentioned names that might have helped,i didn't mean you at all and you probably knew that as you said you don't post much.

Stu doesn't either, but I bail when it doesn't suit?

As for any unrequited love for Phil I think your way off the mark there.

I think I will give the football thread a miss from now on also as I certainly don't want to fall out with anyone over a game that has turned soft and saturated with too much money.

This thread was purely banter for me at the start amongst friends and obviously that has changed over time it was nothing personal.
		
Click to expand...

Just to clarify a little, Tony.

Stu is the bailer, not you. 

Your right about the game becoming  soft and saturated........as fans off the pitch get more and more wound up by it, including ourselves.:thup: On the Phil thing it just looks from the outside that you post to try to get a reaction out of him, and obviously use LFC as a vehicle for that, some of which is fair, and IMHO some not, but it does bring all the other scouse reds into it then. If you know what I mean. I havent taken it personal, and I know your fair most of the time.....but since Man U have done well and us not you've been like a wailing banshee:rofl:. No harm done, dont be a stranger.:thup:


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Just one of mine Robin, *next one was an inbound ban!*

Click to expand...


That wouldn't be a bad thing


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Just to clarify a little, Tony.
*
Stu is the bailer, not you*. 

Your right about the game becoming  soft and saturated........as fans off the pitch get more and more wound up by it, including ourselves.:thup: On the Phil thing it just looks from the outside that you post to try to get a reaction out of him, and obviously use LFC as a vehicle for that, some of which is fair, and IMHO some not, but it does bring all the other scouse reds into it then. If you know what I mean. I havent taken it personal, and I know your fair most of the time.....but since Man U have done well and us not you've been like a wailing banshee:rofl:. No harm done, dont be a stranger.:thup:
		
Click to expand...

 :temper:

Bail free this year....


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## Fish (Mar 6, 2017)

News is being reported there was a bust up at training which led to Sanchez being dropped to the bench and not as reported, the tactics, which Wenger didn't actually use!  

Even Ian Wright is saying if he was Sanchez he'd be offski also the way he's being treated.

I don't think Wenger has ever displayed himself as being a people person and it would seem he's happy to punish someone at the expense of playing his best player and team in a must win or get something out of it match!



#LostThePlot


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## Jensen (Mar 6, 2017)

A question to the Arsenal fans, and be honest. Would you rather have had George Graham remain,  playing "that style" of football, and never experienced Arsene Wenger ?


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## MegaSteve (Mar 6, 2017)

Jensen said:



			A question to the Arsenal fans, and be honest. Would you rather have had George Graham remain,  playing "that style" of football, and never experienced Arsene Wenger ?
		
Click to expand...


AW has been one of the best managers of the Premier League era... 
Not sure why I'd have wanted anybody else in charge... Blud!


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## Tarkus1212 (Mar 6, 2017)

Stamford Bridge redevelopment has been approved by the Mayor of London. I wonder how we'll cope with the "Wembley effect"?


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## Dan2501 (Mar 6, 2017)

Jensen said:



			A question to the Arsenal fans, and be honest. Would you rather have had George Graham remain,  playing "that style" of football, and never experienced Arsene Wenger ?
		
Click to expand...

Why on earth would they prefer that? Wenger did some brilliant stuff for Arsenal mid-to-late 90's and early to mid 2000's, transformed them as a football club and made them into one of the biggest clubs in Europe. That would not have happened under Graham. Wenger's stale and not really achieved anything of note in the last 7-8 years, but that shouldn't mean the great work he did should be forgotten.


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## Fish (Mar 6, 2017)

Tarkus1212 said:



			Stamford Bridge redevelopment has been approved by the Mayor of London. I wonder how we'll cope with the "Wembley effect"?
		
Click to expand...

I heard we were talking to Twickenham!


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## Jensen (Mar 6, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Why on earth would they prefer that? Wenger did some brilliant stuff for Arsenal mid-to-late 90's and early to mid 2000's, transformed them as a football club and made them into one of the biggest clubs in Europe. That would not have happened under Graham. Wenger's stale and not really achieved anything of note in the last 7-8 years, but that shouldn't mean the great work he did should be forgotten.
		
Click to expand...

I was thinking in terms of time spent in tenure, in comparison Graham won more.


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## jp5 (Mar 6, 2017)

Jensen said:



			A question to the Arsenal fans, and be honest. Would you rather have had George Graham remain,  playing "that style" of football, and never experienced Arsene Wenger ?
		
Click to expand...

I don't think you'll find a single fan that had wished Wenger had never come along! He's given the club some of its greatest moments.

Just that a growing number that think he should have called it a day by now.

Would like to put the "style of football" myth to rest - it's been a long time since we've played attractive football.


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## MegaSteve (Mar 6, 2017)

Fish said:



			I heard we were talking to Twickenham!
		
Click to expand...


That'll go down well with the 'locals'... Not!

Mate lives fairly adjacent and on match days his day is Donald!

He's a southern red so he deserves all he gets :thup:...


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## MegaSteve (Mar 6, 2017)

jp5 said:



			Just that a growing number that think he should have called it a day by now.
		
Click to expand...

I have nearly always been keen to support him but have to admit [a little begrudgingly perhaps] his time is up...


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## jp5 (Mar 6, 2017)

Fish said:



View attachment 22168
News is being reported there was a bust up at training which led to Sanchez being dropped to the bench and not as reported, the tactics, which Wenger didn't actually use!
		
Click to expand...

Just the Arsenal PR machine spinning into action to deflect blame from AW when our best player leaves in the summer.


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## Tarkus1212 (Mar 6, 2017)

Fish said:



			I heard we were talking to Twickenham!
		
Click to expand...

There's a lot of local objection to us playing at Twickenham, apparently we all piss in the streets as we go to and from the stadium


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 6, 2017)

Twickenham has a lot of restrictions on it regarding how often it can be used, what times things have to be over by. The grass for a rugby pitch is also quite different to that needed for football. I would be hugely surprised if Twickenham was used.


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## MegaSteve (Mar 6, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Twickenham has a lot of restrictions on it regarding how often it can be used, what times things have to be over by. The grass for a rugby pitch is also quite different to that needed for football. I would be hugely surprised if Twickenham was used.
		
Click to expand...


And, its not any easy place to get to on public transport...

And, of course [as already mentioned] there's the weeing in the streets by the great unwashed...

Twickers is a rugby town after all and they don't do stuff like that much...


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## Tashyboy (Mar 6, 2017)

Well it seems that Ming and Mong have been charged with violent conduct by the FA


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 6, 2017)

My own view was that the Bournemouth player did not stamp on Ibra, the contact was accidental. There was no second movement in order to place his foot on his head, he was just putting his foot down. Old Zlatan however knew exactly what he was doing and should get a healthy ban.


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## jp5 (Mar 6, 2017)

Good to see FA pushing for extended ban for Mings


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 6, 2017)

You really think he stamped on him? I saw no double movement when his leg went down. No forceful stamp.


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## jp5 (Mar 6, 2017)

Yep, pretty obvious to me.

Look at the force he put his foot down with, having looked where Ibra's head was.

No concern for the wellbeing of the player - having known he caught him - and the previous between the two earlier in the game, makes it pretty clear cut to me.

Wouldn't be harsh if he didn't play again this season.


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## jp5 (Mar 6, 2017)

Ibra should get an extended ban also by the way, and an extra game for saying Mings jumped into his elbow.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 6, 2017)

Watching one of my favs on sky. Le tissier 100 club. 

How we stayed In the Prem with some of his supporting cast I'll never know!


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## richart (Mar 6, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Watching one of my favs on sky. Le tissier 100 club. 

How we stayed In the Prem with some of his supporting cast I'll never know!
		
Click to expand...

 Must have been a few penalties.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 6, 2017)

If Chelsea don't use Wembley and Twickenham is out of the question, where do they go from there. Not really that many options around. Should be a tasty atmosphere for the match tonight and the Met's finest might be busy


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## Stuart_C (Mar 6, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			If Chelsea don't use Wembley and Twickenham is out of the question, where do they go from there. Not really that many options around. Should be a tasty atmosphere for the match tonight and the Met's finest might be busy
		
Click to expand...

I hope our forum leg end will be on his best behaviour tonight


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## Piece (Mar 6, 2017)

I fancy West Ham tonight.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 6, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			If Chelsea don't use Wembley and Twickenham is out of the question, where do they go from there. Not really that many options around. Should be a tasty atmosphere for the match tonight and the Met's finest might be busy
		
Click to expand...

Could they persuade one of London's other teams to ground share for a year? Controversial and it would surely cost a lot but why not? My spider senses tell me the wide boys in charge at West Ham would happily take a few quid from them if their lease allowed it.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 6, 2017)

richart said:



			Must have been a few penalties.

Click to expand...

Just think how many he would have got if he'd been taking them for a big club


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## Tashyboy (Mar 6, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Just think how many he would have got if he'd been taking them for a big club 

Click to expand...

Portsmouth ?


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 6, 2017)

That's a cool finish from Hazard &#128526;


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## Piece (Mar 6, 2017)

Great breakaway goal that. Made by Kante. 

Did I see a Wham meat head on the pitch try to, errr, celebrate with the Chelsea players?


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 6, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			That's a cool finish from Hazard &#128526;
		
Click to expand...

And a cracking counter attack. Clinical


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## Papas1982 (Mar 6, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Portsmouth ?
		
Click to expand...

I'd have thought someone who grew up watching a team inferior to their local rivals themselves wouldn't stoop so low. 

Like they always say. Money can't buy class......


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 6, 2017)

Piece said:



			Great breakaway goal that. Made by Kante. 

Did I see a Wham meat head on the pitch try to, errr, celebrate with the Chelsea players?
		
Click to expand...

You did


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 6, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			You did
		
Click to expand...

They didn't....just a title


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 6, 2017)

Way too easy for Chelsea tonight. Very workmanlike performance


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## Piece (Mar 6, 2017)

Piece said:



			I fancy West Ham tonight.



Click to expand...

:mmm::rofl:

Whoops


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## Tashyboy (Mar 6, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I'd have thought someone who grew up watching a team inferior to their local rivals themselves wouldn't stoop so low. 

Like they always say. Money can't buy class......
		
Click to expand...

We have never been inferior to Stockport.
Glad to hear you highlighting Utd and no class &#128513;&#128077;


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 6, 2017)

Piece said:



			:mmm::rofl:

Whoops
		
Click to expand...

Hardly. Always had it under control although Conte won't be happy to have conceded so late


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## Papas1982 (Mar 6, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



*We have never been inferior to Stockport*.
Glad to hear you highlighting Utd and no class &#128513;&#128077;
		
Click to expand...

Glad to see your inner fan still feels the need to compare yourself to lower league teams.......


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## sawtooth (Mar 6, 2017)

Jensen said:



			A question to the Arsenal fans, and be honest. Would you rather have had George Graham remain,  playing "that style" of football, and never experienced Arsene Wenger ?
		
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No mate, Wenger all day long though wished at times Graham was our No. 2

I'd still take Graham though ,at least the competition was real back then and not this sham today that we call Chelsea.

Another hollow win tonight purchased by Roman. Didn't they do well. 

Not for me , I'm quite happy going along as we are. We don't win often but when we do we can say that we earnt it not bought it.   There's a lot to be said for that.

And if Spurs win a major trophy fair play I will be the first to congratulate them.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 6, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			No mate, Wenger all day long though wished at times Graham was our No. 2

I'd still take Graham though ,at least the competition was real back then and not this sham today that we call Chelsea.

Another hollow win tonight purchased by Roman. Didn't they do well. 

Not for me , I'm quite happy going along as we are. We don't win often but when we do we can say that we earnt it not bought it.   There's a lot to be said for that.

*And if Spurs win a major trophy fair play I will be the first to congratulate them*.
		
Click to expand...

As if the rest wasn't laughable trolling, this takes this biscuit!


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## richart (Mar 6, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			We have never been inferior to Stockport.
Glad to hear you highlighting Utd and no class &#128513;&#128077;
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps have a look at the 1997/8 league tables. You did at least finish above us, but Stockport.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 6, 2017)

richart said:



			Perhaps have a look at the 1997/8 league tables. You did at least finish above us, but Stockport.

Click to expand...


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## sawtooth (Mar 6, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			As if the rest wasn't laughable trolling, this takes this biscuit!
		
Click to expand...

Take a look back, and tell me who trolled?

I never start, only reply.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 6, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Take a look back, and tell me who trolled?

I never start, only reply.
		
Click to expand...

Your response was to a spurs fan asking a genuine question.

To which you responded sensibly (at first), and then had to drag Chelsea into it such is your desperation to excuse Wengers shortcomings.

If you would genuinely rather your biggest rivals won, simply so you can have some sort of moral high ground (in your mind) then good luck to you.

I remember us being relegated from the Prem and even on that day i couldn't cheer on a pompey win (which would have kept us up).


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## sawtooth (Mar 6, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Your response was to a spurs fan asking a genuine question.

To which you responded sensibly (at first), and then had to drag Chelsea into it such is your desperation to excuse Wengers shortcomings.

If you would genuinely rather your biggest rivals won, simply so you can have some sort of moral high ground (in your mind) then good luck to you.

I remember us being relegated from the Prem and even on that day i couldn't cheer on a pompey win (which would have kept us up).
		
Click to expand...

As perverse as it may sound yes I'd much prefer Spurs to win something instead of Chelsea.

In my mind it's cheating and I'd favour the team that wins something fair and square even if they are local rivals.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 6, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			As *perverse* as it may sound yes I'd much prefer Spurs to win something instead of Chelsea.

In my mind it's cheating and I'd favour the team that wins something fair and square even if they are local rivals.
		
Click to expand...

Just a little!

But then Wenger was a voyeur so makes sense  (i jest).


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## sawtooth (Mar 6, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Just a little!

But then Wenger was a voyeur so makes sense  (i jest).
		
Click to expand...

Did I do something to you in a former life? You don't even support Chelsea.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 6, 2017)

sawtooth said:



*Did I do something to you in a former life?* You don't even support Chelsea.
		
Click to expand...

What? Talk about mountain and molehills.

I was clearly joking in that response! I thought that was shown by me stating that and using emojis. No need to get so defensive.

As to me supporting chelsea (or not). You don't either but have plenty to say about them, so why can't I or others?

Think it's time to join the growing masses and leave this playground alone a while.


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## sawtooth (Mar 7, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			What? Talk about mountain and molehills.

I was clearly joking in that response! I thought that was shown by me stating that and using emojis. No need to get so defensive.

As to me supporting chelsea (or not). You don't either but have plenty to say about them, so why can't I or others?

Think it's time to join the growing masses and leave this playground alone a while.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not referring to this response but in general. 

If I appear a bit anti-Chelsea do you blame me? Most of the time it's a reply to a bit of Anti Arsenal stuff so if you could bear that in mind before jumping on my back I would be grateful. 

Fight fire with fire and all that.

I don't mind most of the banter but I don't approve of personal insults. Its a pity this thread has gone to that level and frankly surprised a lot of it went unnoticed but hey ho.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I'm not referring to this response but in general. 

If I appear a bit anti-Chelsea do you blame me? Most of the time it's a reply to a bit of Anti Arsenal stuff so if you could bear that in mind before jumping on my back I would be grateful. 

*Fight fire with fire and all that.*

I don't mind most of the banter but I don't approve of personal insults. Its a pity this thread has gone to that level and frankly surprised a lot of it went unnoticed but hey ho.
		
Click to expand...

Post edited.

Sorry, but nowhere have i got personal. The joke was at Wengers expense and not yours. 

I'm out, people can't hide behind the word banter only when it's not at their expense.


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## sawtooth (Mar 7, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Post edited.

Sorry, but nowhere have i got personal. The joke was at Wengers expense and not yours. 

I'm out, people can't hide behind the word banter only when it's not at their expense.
		
Click to expand...

Not referring to you when I mentioned personal insults.

People have opinions and  can write what they like about Arsenal, Wenger , me.  I really don't mind as long as it's clean and not personal insults  but they should also expect for me not to lie down and take it.

That's why I sound like a broken record , non stop replies to same old banter.


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## Fish (Mar 7, 2017)

I see a village is missing it's idiot, I hope it got home ok, it seems to only escape when most have gone to bed &#129300;&#128540;

Once again a question was asked about Arsenal management (current news everywhere you look) which suddenly turns, not surprisingly, into an anti Chelsea rant, and then openly, not for the first time, Coco, with his big red hooter & water shooting daffodil wishes their biggest & neighbouring arch rivals success &#128563; Hmm, is that the FA Cup which Arsenal is still in or a top 4 place that Arsenal are also trying to keep within their grasp or both &#128563; 

I think this months half n half scarf award has no competition and is winging it's way to Gobblers Knob as we speak, wear it with pride at the FA Cup semi-final, you should last a few minutes, wear good trainers &#128514;


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## Fish (Mar 7, 2017)

What a crap ground, even for what is billed as a high profile London Derby there were empty seats everywhere and yet we could have doubled or tripled our 3k allowance, in fact loads of us we're moaning and had to stand at the top back concourse as finding seats was a joke and the stewards were thick and uncooperative. 

We were constantly singling 'You sold your soul to this **** hole' and 'Your not West Ham anymore'  and what really was obvious is how Brady and her cronies run this club and surpress incidents, especially when a WH numpty ran at our end 5 minutes before the end, the Sky cameraman swung his camera to film him only for the head of security and a couple of others grab the camera on the tripod and swing it away from the numpty being grounded and we could see serious words being exchanged between the cameraman & security!  obviously nothing ever happens at this ground, it's all surpressed &#128545;

Disappointing late goal but another 3 points and another game less, keeping the donkey quiet was key as we knew we were going to get an Aerial bombardment and I think the tactics were spot on. 

I didn't think we needed to take off Pedro, his contribution and pace was excellent and I thought and we sat back too early with the changed formation, WH needed to push forward and we could have countered again rather than invite them on. 

OB were a nightmare and they wouldn't let me breakaway out of the cordon our group had being escorted away insisting I went the opposite way I wanted to go!  Couple of suicide numpties ran at us all outside with odds of over 500/1, just about sums up their intellect &#128540;

Won't be going back there in a hurry, crap ground, badly organised inside and over the top OB, back home 2am &#128545;


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 7, 2017)

I always find the "buy the title" argument slightly chucklesome. Utd fans tried it for a while when Chelsea first came on the scene. That soon stopped when everyone pointed out Fergie's spending outstripped everyone else before Chelsea came along. Arsenal spent big money on Sanchez and Ozil, far more than most teams can afford. Does that mean they buy 4th place? How can West Brom, Stoke, Bournemouth, Watford etc compete with Arsenal? Where is the difference?

There is a financial pecking order, that's life. Sometimes that gets distorted, ie City and Chelsea, but that just means they got lucky and the rest of us have to suck it up. Arsenal have the same money, billionaire owners, ground that prints money. The owners just choose to trouser it, the manager wont spend it in the amounts required to go that next step. Please don't bleat about teams buying the title though, it's embarrassing.


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## Slime (Mar 7, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I always find the "buy the title" argument slightly chucklesome. Utd fans tried it for a while when Chelsea first came on the scene. *That soon stopped when everyone pointed out Fergie's spending outstripped everyone else before Chelsea came along.* Arsenal spent big money on Sanchez and Ozil, far more than most teams can afford. Does that mean they buy 4th place? How can West Brom, Stoke, Bournemouth, Watford etc compete with Arsenal? Where is the difference?
		
Click to expand...

I think you're missing the point here.
It's not about how much money is being spent, it's about where the money comes from.
Sean is saying that Arsenal's money is generated from footballing activities whereas Chelsea's money came out of a sugar daddy's pocket .................. huge difference.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 7, 2017)

Most of Chelsea's initial money came from the sugar daddy, same as City, but then they were starting from so far behind they needed that jump start. Now Chelsea are more on an even keel and the excesses of past years are gone. I expect the same will happen to City in a few years time. They will still be big spenders but they can now sell a player for a big sum to balance out the big purchases. I do get what Sean is saying but it is a rose tinted, romanticised view. It's a bit like travelling in a horse and trap instead of a car. Move on, times have changed. You can keep harking back to days gone by but in the meantime other teams keeping winning the big silverware.


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## stokie_93 (Mar 7, 2017)

Not looking forward to tomorrow nights' game tomorrow.

No Martins Indi & Arnautovic doubtful will be 2 huge blows for us.

I wouldn't be surprised if City score 5/6 unless we just go all out defence.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 7, 2017)

You seem to have lost some steel from recent times. Stoke on a Wednesday night is no longer intimidating.

Looking at the table you are doing okay but just not progressing this year. Is that about right?


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## stokie_93 (Mar 7, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You seem to have lost some steel from recent times. Stoke on a Wednesday night is no longer intimidating.

Looking at the table you are doing okay but just not progressing this year. Is that about right?
		
Click to expand...

.

About right mate, tbf we looked much better at the weekend without being great. Middlesborough were terrible...

We're not beating the teams above use, we beat City & United last year but this year we're getting no way near them. Just hoping we can push on and finish above West Brom


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## Dan2501 (Mar 7, 2017)

Slime said:



			I think you're missing the point here.
It's not about how much money is being spent, it's about where the money comes from.
Sean is saying that Arsenal's money is generated from footballing activities whereas Chelsea's money came out of a sugar daddy's pocket .................. huge difference.
		
Click to expand...

Not really true. Arsenal generated Â£345m in turnover according to their last accounts, Chelsea Â£319m, City generated Â£345m. Initial investment may have come from a sugar daddy, but they're now generating around the same amount of money as Arsenal from "footballing activities".


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## Fish (Mar 7, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Not really true. Arsenal generated Â£345m in turnover according to their last accounts, Chelsea Â£319m, City generated Â£345m. Initial investment may have come from a sugar daddy, but they're now generating around the same amount of money as Arsenal from "footballing activities".
		
Click to expand...

The difference of Â£30m is the gate revenue they rip off their loyal fans with and yet don't give them anything back to put in their web encrusted cabinet/s :smirk:

Our TV money is greater than theirs, no doubt because of the successes we have achieved, our commercial revenue is greater than theirs, no doubt because of the successes we have achieved, so, just based on those 2 key factors (but there's many others) of a business model, if you invest in your product and make it successful you yield the returns, if you're not as successful (silverware), you rip your fans off for the difference, but, if you're not going to invest in your product or even turn up to watch it and even have the audacity to charge it millions every year, why rip your fans off to increase a turnover you're not going to use to strengthen your ambition :mmm:   

Answers on a postcard to

Punxsutawney Phil
Gobblers Knob
AR5 3NL


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## sawtooth (Mar 7, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Not really true. Arsenal generated Â£345m in turnover according to their last accounts, Chelsea Â£319m, City generated Â£345m. Initial investment may have come from a sugar daddy, but they're now generating around the same amount of money as Arsenal from "footballing activities".
		
Click to expand...

You cant get away from the fact that Chelsea were broke and Roman and his Billions turned the club around and got them to where they are now. Its irrelevant that they make good money now through football related activities. Its all been made possible through Russian Oil money.  Without it Chelsea would probably be in the championship now.

Its a sham and I personally do not acknowledge any of their achievements since 2003.

I might even start publishing my own league table but with Chelsea and Man City removed. Do that for the past 12 years and Liverpool would have won a league title or two as well.


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## fundy (Mar 7, 2017)

about as well as Arsenal have played against a big side since this game last year lol, shame it cant happen before its too late and the tie is dead and buried

fair bit of protesting about Wenger pre game it seems too


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## sawtooth (Mar 7, 2017)

fundy said:



			about as well as Arsenal have played against a big side since this game last year lol, shame it cant happen before its too late and the tie is dead and buried

fair bit of protesting about Wenger pre game it seems too
		
Click to expand...

A mate of mine didn't go to the game as way of protest. I respect his decision but I don't agree with it.


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## sawtooth (Mar 7, 2017)

Not a pen for me, Alonso won the ball albeit it was the faintest of touches. Ref got that right IMO.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			A mate of mine didn't go to the game as way of protest. I respect his decision but I don't agree with it.
		
Click to expand...

It's easy not to agree with it when you've got a comfy armchair.


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## davemc1 (Mar 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			It's easy not to agree with it when you've got a comfy armchair.
		
Click to expand...

Lad you should know, if anyone needs a comfy armchair right now it's you &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Stuart_C (Mar 7, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			Lad you should know, if anyone needs a comfy armchair right now it's you &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;
		
Click to expand...

Knob :rofl: :rofl:


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## fundy (Mar 7, 2017)

horror miss from Giroud


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## sawtooth (Mar 7, 2017)

fundy said:



			horror miss from Giroud
		
Click to expand...

Not as bad as the Lewandowski one earlier and I don't think you mentioned it.


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## fundy (Mar 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Not as bad as the Lewandowski one earlier and I don't think you mentioned it.
		
Click to expand...

think its worse, lewandowski on the volley with a ball across him compared to a free header 6 yards out in the centre of the goal

oh dear no Kos for the 2nd half again


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## sawtooth (Mar 7, 2017)

Disgraceful by Lewandowski.

I blame Kos because he should know not to make any contact like that because a cheat will always take advantage.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 7, 2017)

What a mess from the ref. Definitely showed a yellow initially so unless Koscelny mouthed off to either official, I can't see why he'd change it to a red. Soft penalty or not the stat that Lewandowski has 38 goals in 39 games for club and country this season is astonishing


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## jp5 (Mar 7, 2017)

C'mon Homer, you know the rules!

Completely unnecessary from Koscielny and once he's brought him down the ref has no choice except the red.

No intelligence from footballers any more.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 7, 2017)

jp5 said:



			C'mon Homer, you know the rules!

Completely unnecessary from Koscielny and once he's brought him down the ref has no choice except the red.

No intelligence from footballers any more.
		
Click to expand...

So why did he show yellow?


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## anotherdouble (Mar 7, 2017)

This mid season friendly should get the goners ready for Lincoln


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## jp5 (Mar 7, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			So why did he show yellow?
		
Click to expand...

Maybe thought he was going away from goal but corrected by the extra official?

Either way we complain enough when refs refuse to consult other officials so can't feel hard done by when they do.

Whether the double jeopardy is too harsh is one for the rule makers.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 7, 2017)

Great strike. Arsenal could get another thumping here


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## fundy (Mar 7, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Great strike. Arsenal could get another thumping here
		
Click to expand...

you not need to worry about losing at home to Leeds?


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## Stuart_C (Mar 7, 2017)

Stand by Arsenal Fan TV innit blud, embarrassing fam. :rofl:


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## anotherdouble (Mar 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Stand by AFCTV innit blud, embarrassing fam. :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha:clap::whoo::thup:


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 7, 2017)

fundy said:



			you not need to worry about losing at home to Leeds?
		
Click to expand...

But I do. 73% possession and 14 chances and a goal that clearly went over the line but with not technology to help we were robbed


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## sawtooth (Mar 7, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Great strike. Arsenal could get another thumping here
		
Click to expand...

Very insightful Homer. If you said that an hour ago it would have meant something but not when already losing 1-3 with 10 men lol. On a positive note, Arsenal won both 1st halves 2-1 on aggregateOn a less positive not we lost the second halves 9 nil.


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## fundy (Mar 7, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But I do. 73% possession and 14 chances and a goal that clearly went over the line but with not technology to help we were robbed
		
Click to expand...

id take 1-1 please


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## fundy (Mar 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Very insightful Homer. If you said that an hour ago it would have meant something but not when already losing 1-3 with 10 men lol.

On a positive note, Arsenal won both 1st halves 2-1

On a less positive not we lost the second halves 9 nil. 

Click to expand...

not sure theyre done yet


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 7, 2017)

Bayern could finish this tie with more goals than Arsenal have men on the pitch


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## Imurg (Mar 7, 2017)

Isn't there a towel that can be thrown in or something...&#128514;


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## Stuart_C (Mar 7, 2017)

Arsenal would've won this tie had Kosc stayed on the pitch  for both halves in both games


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 7, 2017)

This is very embarrassing &#128584;


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 7, 2017)

Imurg said:



			Isn't there a towel that can be thrown in or something...&#62978;
		
Click to expand...

Maybe Bayern could pretend it's a test match and declare.


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## sawtooth (Mar 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Arsenal would've won this tie had Kosc stayed on the pitch  for both halves in both games
		
Click to expand...

Yeah totally agree.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 7, 2017)

I look forward to Sawtooth's excuse.


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## anotherdouble (Mar 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I look forward to Sawtooth's excuse.
		
Click to expand...

It's all Chelsea's fault as we got oil money


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## fundy (Mar 7, 2017)

fundy said:



			id take 1-1 please
		
Click to expand...

happy days


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 7, 2017)

Watershed moment?


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## sawtooth (Mar 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I look forward to Sawtooth's excuse.
		
Click to expand...

If Bayern had lost their CB and we kept 11 on the pitch we would probably won by a couple of goals. 

It wasn't embarrassing in my eyes, the red card changed the game as did the injury to Kos in the first game. After that Wenger took Sanchez off and he would have stopped the match then if he could.


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## jp5 (Mar 7, 2017)

Moved to the stadium to compete with the likes of Bayern.

Yeah right, at the moment it's just a cash cow to extract the most from fans.

Not that the board care.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			If Bayern had lost their CB and we kept 11 on the pitch we would probably won by a couple of goals. 

*It wasn't embarrassing in my eyes,* the red card changed the game as did the injury to Kos in the first game. After that Wenger took Sanchez off and the would have stopped the match then if he could.
		
Click to expand...


Wow, you need to go to specsavers.


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## sawtooth (Mar 7, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Watershed moment?
		
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Not for me, see enough improvement in attitude and quality up to the 53rd minute then it was just a procession after that.


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## jp5 (Mar 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			It wasn't embarrassing in my eyes.
		
Click to expand...

Not embarrassing? Do me a favour. Losing 10-2 on aggregate to a team we should be on a par with.

Where's the resolve to shut up shop and avoid a rugby score? We don't know the meaning of the word.


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## Fish (Mar 7, 2017)

fundy said:



			happy days 

Click to expand...

Got the 2 draws I was hoping for, so far so good, come on you Terriers &#128054;&#128062;&#128062;&#128062;&#128062;


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Not for me, see enough improvement in attitude and quality up to the 53rd minute then it was just a procession after that.
		
Click to expand...


Just a shame the games 90 mins then....


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Not for me, see enough improvement in attitude and quality up to the 53rd minute then it was just a procession after that.
		
Click to expand...

Beaten 10-2 on aggregate in the last 16. Out in the same round for the 7th year in a row ! Is that not time to wake up and smell the coffee


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## Fish (Mar 7, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Beaten 10-2 on aggregate in the last 16. Out in the same round for the 7th year in a row ! Is that not time to wake up and smell the coffee
		
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I know the answer miss, miss, miss, ask me miss  &#128514;&#128514;


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## Stuart_C (Mar 7, 2017)

Fish said:



			I know the answer miss, miss, miss, ask me miss  &#128514;&#128514;
		
Click to expand...

What's Klopp done, conte will struggle next year blah blah blah....


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## sawtooth (Mar 7, 2017)

Fish said:



			I know the answer miss, miss, miss, ask me miss  &#62978;&#62978;
		
Click to expand...

So do I , buy Bayerns best players.

#TheChelseaWay


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			So do I , buy Bayerns best players.

#TheChelseaWay
		
Click to expand...


But at least they buy players with heart.....

Yellow brick road to the Emirates?


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## Fish (Mar 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			So do I , buy Bayerns best players.

#TheChelseaWay
		
Click to expand...

If we did they would be worth more when we then sold them on and they'd have some silverware,  what's your shower worth now, and more importantly who'd want them? 

#GroundhogDay, I can here the boos from here &#128514;&#128514;


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## jp5 (Mar 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			So do I , buy Bayerns best players.

#TheChelseaWay
		
Click to expand...

Bayern's squad cost less than ours. Next excuse?


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## Kellfire (Mar 7, 2017)

Arsenal ten two go out at this stage most years.


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## Fish (Mar 7, 2017)

jp5 said:



			Bayern's squad cost less than ours. Next excuse?
		
Click to expand...

The expression 'Pishing in the wind' springs to mind &#128521;


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 7, 2017)

Not sure you can really defend a 10-2 aggregate defeat in any way shape or form. Wenger and the players need to be able to adapt to changes in circumstances, good and bad on the pitch, and when things are going wrong, either accept them and put in a professional damage limitation performance, and, assuming it's 11 v 11, find a plan B to change it. That plan B seems sadly lacking, although in Wenger's defence there are other PL manager's who can't seem to do this


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## User62651 (Mar 7, 2017)

10-2 is cringe, any other club the manager would be long gone, don't understand why the Arsenal board and Wenger continue to see their achievements as acceptable, seems as long as the business side of the club is turning a profit, that comes ahead of everything else. Sorry to see the usual suspects progressing, Bayern or Real for the ECL again I imagine, tournament needs some fresh blood.
Keen to see if Leicester's rejuvenation can continue next week.


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## sawtooth (Mar 7, 2017)

jp5 said:



			Bayern's squad cost less than ours. Next excuse?
		
Click to expand...

Really? Lowendowski would break our pay structure alone.


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## Slime (Mar 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			So do I , buy Bayerns best players.

*#TheChelseaWay*

Click to expand...




Bunkermagnet said:



*But at least they buy players with heart.....
*
Yellow brick road to the Emirates?
		
Click to expand...

Where was their heart last season?
That's why they're not in Europe this season!


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## Stuart_C (Mar 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Really? Lowendowski would break our pay structure alone.
		
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Players of his ilk are worth breaking your structure for.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Really? Lowendowski would break our pay structure alone.
		
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He cost Bayern Â£0


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Really? Lowendowski would break our pay structure alone.
		
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Perhaps that is part of the problem with Arsenal then? You've got over Â£200 million in cash in the bank (all generated without the need for the Russian or Middle Eastern oil money that you decry) and the club/manager/board refuse to spend it to make the team better. The Bayern team cost less than Arsenal's but it looks like Bayern pay their players more. Surely Arsenal could follow this model and still be profitable if they have managed to rack up that much in cash reserves?


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## Fish (Mar 7, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Perhaps that is part of the problem with Arsenal then? You've got over Â£200 million in cash in the bank (all generated without the need for the Russian or Middle Eastern oil money that you decry) and the club/manager/board refuse to spend it to make the team better. The Bayern team cost less than Arsenal's but it looks like Bayern pay their players more. Surely Arsenal could follow this model and still be profitable if they have managed to rack up that much in cash reserves?
		
Click to expand...

But their wage bill is Â£192m with improved contracts being waved about which will increase that substantially, that's not a shabby figure by any standards. 

High wages are nothing when players have been bought on the cheap or cost anything at all, especially then if you do actually sell that player for much more because of the success they've had. 

Â£200k a week for someone on a free is nothing, it's Â£10.4m a year, get 2 or 3 great years out of them, sell them for anything but at worse that player has cost you Â£20.8m, that's nothing in today's market.


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## Piece (Mar 7, 2017)

Arsenal made a great start, taking two early wickets, leaving Bayern struggling at 9-2....


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 7, 2017)

If Arsenal want more than last 16 in the CL and top 4 every year, they need to pay for the best players and it's time the board wake up to this fact. You need players of Lewandowski's level to compete. Anything else is blinkered and you could see by the reactions of some of the fans, they are getting more and more disillusioned. Granted they had just got stuffed but there murmurings are there in the PL games now as well (and more so on the tubes to and from games and in the pubs before and after according to several Arsenal season ticket holders I know)


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## sawtooth (Mar 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Players of his ilk are worth breaking your structure for.
		
Click to expand...

And you think we could get him? No chance. If he came to England (assuming he wanted to) then Chelsea or City would secure his services. 

The pay structure is there for a reason, break it and costs quickly spiral out of control. Unless you are Chelsea who pay the best player fees, best agent fees, wages, etc and not have to worry about losses.

 But that's not the way I want our club to go. I couldn't celebrate honours that we purchased with external money, it wouldn't feel real.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			And you think we could get him? No chance. If he came to England (assuming he wanted to) then Chelsea or City would secure his services. 

The pay structure is there for a reason, break it and costs quickly spiral out of control. Unless you are Chelsea who pay the best player fees, best agent fees, wages, etc and not have to worry about losses.

 But that's not the way I want our club to go. I couldn't celebrate honours that we purchased with external money, it wouldn't feel real.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, but in that case be prepared for many years of what if's and wondering why you can't compete on any front. Money talks. It's a fact of life in football


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## Stuart_C (Mar 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			And you think we could get him? No chance. If he came to England (assuming he wanted to) then Chelsea or City would secure his services. 



			How can you be sure Chelsea or city would want him?
		
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The pay structure is there for a reason, break it and costs quickly spiral out of control. 




			If it's managed properly it won't spiral out of control. I'm not suggesting paying iwobi and the likes Â£200k a week. Just the top players, and if the others aren't happy then it's pro them to pull their fingers out and improve.
		
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Unless you are Chelsea who pay the best player fees, best agent fees, wages, etc and not have to worry about losses.

 But that's not the way I want our club to go. I couldn't celebrate honours that we purchased with external money, it wouldn't feel real.




			but you'll celebrate honours where players have cheated in games to win silverware?
		
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Click to expand...

You must be on a wind up.


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## sawtooth (Mar 7, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			If Arsenal want more than last 16 in the CL and top 4 every year, they need to pay for the best players and it's time the board wake up to this fact. You need players of Lewandowski's level to compete. Anything else is blinkered and you could see by the reactions of some of the fans, they are getting more and more disillusioned. Granted they had just got stuffed but there murmurings are there in the PL games now as well (and more so on the tubes to and from games and in the pubs before and after according to several Arsenal season ticket holders I know)
		
Click to expand...

Yeah but you have to be realistic about how much Arsenal could spend. If you say that we start spending even 50% more our already obscenely high wage bill would grow from around Â£200M to Â£300M.

Our spending is inching higher year on year and I think that's the sensible thing to do, any sudden hikes in costs could very quickly destabilise the club especially if we don't enjoy the same level of success that we've enjoyed over the past 20 years or so. No guarantees in this game.


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## Fish (Mar 7, 2017)

What pay structure, its increased year on year and your waving a Â£40k a week increase at Ozil to take him to Â£180k to stay and another Â£25k a week to Sanchez to take him to Â£165k a week. 

I'd send Ozil packing and build around Sanchez, but only Wenger knows the issues he's got with him and for that reason the wrong one will leave and the bad one will stay with a pay increase, but hey, you keep to your mythical pay structure that'll be Â£200m next season.  ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


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## sawtooth (Mar 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			You must be on a wind up.
		
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A bit naÃ¯ve mate. You start paying someone substantially more then others will want the same.


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## Slime (Mar 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			A bit naÃ¯ve mate. You start paying someone substantially more then others will want the same.
		
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Pay your best player top dollar.
When others complain, challenge them to play to the level of said best player.
Win, win.


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## Fish (Mar 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			A bit naÃ¯ve mate. You start paying someone substantially more then others will want the same.
		
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That's rubbish, you need to look at your wage bill and you will see players like Welbeck on Â£70k but Ozil on Â£140k (soon to be Â£180k) so there is plenty of disparity already in your mythical pay structure starting in your 1st team as low as Â£30k, so by your thinking they must all be knocking Wengers door like Oliver Twist. 

Your just full of non sensical excuses and are completely in denial, your a lost cause.


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## sawtooth (Mar 7, 2017)

Fish said:



			That's rubbish, you need to look at your wage bill and you will see players like Welbeck on Â£70k but Ozil on Â£140k (soon to be Â£180k) so there is plenty of disparity already in your mythical pay structure starting in your 1st team as low as Â£30k, so by your thinking they must all be knocking Wengers door like Oliver Twist. 

Your just full of non sensical excuses and are completely in denial, your a lost cause.
		
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What are you going on about?

Of course players are in different salary brackets, you think Sanchez should get the same as Gibbs? That's not what I am saying at all. I'm saying that if you break the pay structure and start paying more to attract and retain talent then others in the squad would want a similar percentage increase. And it would be pretty difficult to refuse.

None of this applies to Chelsea of course as money is no object. Only normal and traditional football clubs need to worry about their finances.


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## fundy (Mar 7, 2017)

The biggest issue with Arsenals pay structure isnt the guys at the top on the biggest salary, its the amount of very ordinary first team squad members (and below) on massively inflated salaries who get shown far too much loyalty and go on collecting their big fat salaries without actually delivering close to them in terms of value. Pay the stars the money, if anyone is worth it its them, but dont reward mediocrity with inflated salaries


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## Fish (Mar 8, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			What are you going on about?

Of course players are in different salary brackets, you think Sanchez should get the same as Gibbs? That's not what I am saying at all. I'm saying that if you break the pay structure and start paying more to attract and retain talent then others in the squad would want a similar percentage increase. And it would be pretty difficult to refuse.

None of this applies to Chelsea of course as money is no object. Only normal and traditional football clubs need to worry about their finances.
		
Click to expand...

 But that's exactly what your now doing, waving an extra Â£40k a week at Ozil ðŸ˜‚

And your making out that we have some kind of massive wage bill when in fact it's currently only Â£17m difference from your per year, but when you factor our excellent resale revenue for our players that Â£17m comfortably disappears, yours won't!  plus, we could offset that Â£17m by charging an extra Â£12 per ticket (still less than yours) but we don't want to fleece our fans like Arsenal do. 

Have you seen all the protests outside the ground, will he make it to the end of the  season ðŸ¤”


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## USER1999 (Mar 8, 2017)

fundy said:



			The biggest issue with Arsenals pay structure isnt the guys at the top on the biggest salary, its the amount of very ordinary first team squad members (and below) on massively inflated salaries who get shown far too much loyalty and go on collecting their big fat salaries without actually delivering close to them in terms of value. Pay the stars the money, if anyone is worth it its them, but dont reward mediocrity with inflated salaries
		
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Hey you, i was about to type that! Stop stealing my posts!


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## Hobbit (Mar 8, 2017)

fundy said:



			The biggest issue with Arsenals pay structure isnt the guys at the top on the biggest salary, its the amount of very ordinary first team squad members (and below) on massively inflated salaries who get shown far too much loyalty and go on collecting their big fat salaries without actually delivering close to them in terms of value. Pay the stars the money, if anyone is worth it its them, but dont reward mediocrity with inflated salaries
		
Click to expand...

Well said. There's some very average dross in that squad... mind you, Middlesbrough could do with some of them.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 8, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Well said. There's some very average dross in that squad... mind you, Middlesbrough could do with some of them.
		
Click to expand...


Do you think they will be up for a battle in the championship? :rofl:


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## USER1999 (Mar 8, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do you think they will be up for a battle in the championship? :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

With the right management, yes, i do.


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## Hobbit (Mar 8, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do you think they will be up for a battle in the championship? :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

No. Karanka has dismantled a half decent, fighting team and brought in players that, in the main, struggled in their own leagues. If Boro don't stay up, and I don't expect them to, they'll be mid table in the Championship at best, and carrying expensive dross.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 8, 2017)

Joking apart he at some point has to let them off the leash. They are so terrified to concede that you don't give yourselves a chance to score. I'm not too sure about your last comment. I have taken notice of the Championship more this year and the quality does not look great. It may be a tough division to get out of but it is not a great league. Hopefully your wage structure has adjustments built in if you go down.


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## MegaSteve (Mar 8, 2017)

fundy said:



			The biggest issue with Arsenals pay structure isnt the guys at the top on the biggest salary, its the amount of very ordinary first team squad members (and below) on massively inflated salaries who get shown far too much loyalty and go on collecting their big fat salaries without actually delivering close to them in terms of value. Pay the stars the money, if anyone is worth it its them, but dont reward mediocrity with inflated salaries
		
Click to expand...


Right now only the Ox is showing enough endeavour on a regular basis...


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## stokie_93 (Mar 8, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Joking apart he at some point has to let them off the leash. They are so terrified to concede that you don't give yourselves a chance to score. I'm not too sure about your last comment. I have taken notice of the Championship more this year and the quality does not look great. It may be a tough division to get out of but it is not a great league. Hopefully your wage structure has adjustments built in if you go down.
		
Click to expand...

.

Been a funny old season in the championship, some teams you expect to be up there massively underperforming: Norwich, Derby, Villa.
Other teams having great seasons like Reading, Leeds & especially Huddersfield.

For me Newcastle are a dead cert to come back up and have been since the start, way too much quality in that side for the Championship.
Brighton the last two games (before last night) didn't pick up any points and were really poor against Forest. I think they'll just about get the 2nd automatic place above Huddersfield.

I reckon the playoff positions will be how it is now, who goes through is anyone's guess, on the day any of them teams can beat eachother. Think it'd be good to see Leeds back up there but I really would like Huddersfield or Sheff Wednesday to do it!


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## richart (Mar 8, 2017)

stokie_93 said:



			.

Been a funny old season in the championship, some teams you expect to be up there massively underperforming: Norwich, Derby, Villa.
Other teams having great seasons like Reading, Leeds & especially Huddersfield.

For me Newcastle are a dead cert to come back up and have been since the start, way too much quality in that side for the Championship.
Brighton the last two games (before last night) didn't pick up any points and were really poor against Forest. I think they'll just about get the 2nd automatic place above Huddersfield.

I reckon the playoff positions will be how it is now, who goes through is anyone's guess, on the day any of them teams can beat eachother. Think it'd be good to see Leeds back up there but I really would like Huddersfield or Sheff Wednesday to do it!
		
Click to expand...

 So basically anyone but Reading through the play offs.:angry:


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## Jensen (Mar 8, 2017)

Fish said:



			Disappointing late goal but another 3 points and another game less, keeping the donkey quiet was key as we knew we were going to get an Aerial bombardment and I think the tactics were spot on.
		
Click to expand...

I think describing Andy Carroll as a donkey is pretty harsh. He's got more to his game than just his aerial threat. He's got a decent strike with his left boot and can also use his less favoured right. He's physically strong and can hold the ball up.

Now Tony Cascarino, he was a donkey - truly awful. Could head a ball, but that was it, he couldn't use his feet at all. Oh didn't he once play for Chelski &#128514;&#128514;


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## Jensen (Mar 8, 2017)

Hate to admit it, but as a Spurs fan, I'll have to agree with the Gooner, Sawgrass. You've got to have a wage structure in place, you can't merely go out and pay players Â£x amount of thousands per week. Otherwise it'll bankrupt you, look what happened to Leeds under Ridsdale.

What happens when sugar daddy Abramovich loses interest in his latest plaything, Chelski, and decides to walk away ? Can they still meet all those contracts without his rubies ? That would concern me


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 8, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Hate to admit it, but as a Spurs fan, I'll have to agree with the Gooner, Sawgrass. You've got to have a wage structure in place, you can't merely go out and pay players Â£x amount of thousands per week. Otherwise it'll bankrupt you, look what happened to Leeds under Ridsdale.

What happens when sugar daddy Abramovich loses interest in his latest plaything, Chelski, and decides to walk away ? Can they still meet all those contracts without his rubies ? That would concern me
		
Click to expand...

Does the players wages actually come from him personally? 
Or money generated from the club?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 8, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Hate to admit it, but as a Spurs fan, I'll have to agree with the Gooner, Sawgrass. You've got to have a wage structure in place, you can't merely go out and pay players Â£x amount of thousands per week. Otherwise it'll bankrupt you, look what happened to Leeds under Ridsdale.

What happens when sugar daddy Abramovich loses interest in his latest plaything, Chelski, and decides to walk away ? Can they still meet all those contracts without his rubies ? That would concern me
		
Click to expand...

I think it's safe to say that because it's now been 13 years since Abramovich arrived that he isn't going anyway and isnt going to lose interest and he doesn't care about the money owned to him by the club. 

Those concerns are long gone now.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 8, 2017)

Got my bets on for tonight......

Barcelona to go through 10/1
Barcelona to win 5-0 @ 40/1
Barcelona to win 6-1 @ 50/1
Barcelona to win 7-1 @ 125/1
Barcelona to win 7-2 @ 150/1


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## Tashyboy (Mar 8, 2017)

Am sulking, can't get to the game coz am babysitting.&#128549;


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## sawtooth (Mar 8, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Does the players wages actually come from him personally? 
Or* money generated from the club*?
		
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:rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 8, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

You really are a bit of an idiot aren't you &#128584;


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 8, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Got my bets on for tonight......

Barcelona to go through 10/1
Barcelona to win 5-0 @ 40/1
Barcelona to win 6-1 @ 50/1
Barcelona to win 7-1 @ 125/1
Barcelona to win 7-2 @ 150/1
		
Click to expand...

Hope you've only had Â£1 on each


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 8, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Hope you've only had Â£1 on each
		
Click to expand...

Not a chance. That's a bit rich for me. Â£1 on Barca to go through and 50p each on the others.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 8, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Not a chance. That's a bit rich for me. Â£1 on Barca to go through and 50p each on the others.
		
Click to expand...

Another goal before ht would make it interesting.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 8, 2017)

City finding Stoke a hard nut to crack. Mark Hughes definitely makes them hard to break down but I can see City winning eventually. Can't see Barca doing it though


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## Stuart_C (Mar 8, 2017)

Wtf is going on at The FA? 

Ibrahimovic gets 3 match ban and Mings gets 5 matches. 

Disgraceful decision, both should've got the same ban at most.


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## fundy (Mar 8, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			City finding Stoke a hard nut to crack. Mark Hughes definitely makes them hard to break down but I can see City winning eventually. Can't see Barca doing it though
		
Click to expand...

barca fans everywhere rejoice lol


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 8, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Got my bets on for tonight......

Barcelona to go through 10/1
Barcelona to win 5-0 @ 40/1
Barcelona to win 6-1 @ 50/1
Barcelona to win 7-1 @ 125/1
Barcelona to win 7-2 @ 150/1
		
Click to expand...

Hope you lumped on Barca to go through &#128563;&#128514;


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 8, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Wtf is going on at The FA? 

Ibrahimovic gets 3 match ban and Mings gets 5 matches. 

Disgraceful decision, both should've got the same ban at most.
		
Click to expand...

yes both should have got six games 
Zlatans was deliberate? Seems a bit lenient 
Mings Jury's found him guilty so he can't complain.

Who knows what goes on in the FA they seem to make some very strange decisions.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 8, 2017)

Surely that's PSG through


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## USER1999 (Mar 8, 2017)

Its a bit rubbish. Zlatan did no worse than pedro on Bellerin, so thats a nothing, apparently, and Mings made to jump over Zlatan, and Rooney messed it up for him. A huge ban for a mistake. FA,  clueless as usual.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 8, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Surely that's PSG through
		
Click to expand...

Guaranteed.Even Barca can't get another three in the last twenty minutes (unless brown envelope exchanges have taken place)


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## guest100718 (Mar 8, 2017)

same old cheating Suarez


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## guest100718 (Mar 8, 2017)

dirty cheat


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 8, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			dirty cheat
		
Click to expand...

What's he done?


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## guest100718 (Mar 8, 2017)

cheating


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 8, 2017)

Unbelievable Jeff.


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## fundy (Mar 8, 2017)

the curse of Homer strikes again lol


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 8, 2017)

fundy said:



			the curse of Homer strikes again lol
		
Click to expand...

Aided and abetted by Suarez cheating of course


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 8, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Got my bets on for tonight......

Barcelona to go through 10/1
Barcelona to win 5-0 @ 40/1
Barcelona to win 6-1 @ 50/1
Barcelona to win 7-1 @ 125/1
Barcelona to win 7-2 @ 150/1
		
Click to expand...

Yeah baby!!!!!!!!! Wish I'd put more on it now. Just had a strange feeling that they'd do it. Still, a Â£35 return for a Â£3 outlay isn't a bad result.


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## fundy (Mar 8, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Yeah baby!!!!!!!!! Wish I'd put more on it now. Just had a strange feeling that they'd do it. Still, a Â£35 return for a Â£3 outlay isn't a bad result.
		
Click to expand...

Nice one Colchester 

Shame you didnt get the 200/1 to qualify in running too


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 8, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Yeah baby!!!!!!!!! Wish I'd put more on it now. Just had a strange feeling that they'd do it. Still, a Â£35 return for a Â£3 outlay isn't a bad result.
		
Click to expand...

Nice 1 ðŸ‘ðŸ»


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## One Planer (Mar 8, 2017)

Defensive masterclass at the Etihad  :rofl:


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## Fish (Mar 8, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Defensive masterclass at the Etihad  :rofl:
		
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Well done Stoke &#128077;&#128526;


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 8, 2017)

What an amazing game at Barce


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 8, 2017)

fundy said:



			Nice one Colchester 

Shame you didnt get the 200/1 to qualify in running too 

Click to expand...

As you'll see from my initial outlay tonight I'm not a big gambler. I'll never get rich from it but equally I'll never go broke from it. Just a little flutter to keep it interesting while I'm watching.


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## Slime (Mar 8, 2017)

Just seen the Suarez dive .................... astonishing!
He'd already been booked for diving so I'd have thought he'd have perfected his technique a bit.
He's a lucky lad and PSG will not want to see the replay!
Nor will Suarez!


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## user2010 (Mar 9, 2017)

*ANY* Pro footballer would go down looking for a pen in that circumstance.
Yes they are *ALL* cheats, but that `s what the stupid money being paid out has done to the top leagues and Cups nowadays.


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## user2010 (Mar 9, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Guaranteed.Even Barca can't get another three in the last twenty minutes 

Click to expand...


Well done Mystic Homer, you really do need to start waiting until the end of the game before you come on here spouting your nonsense.


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## anotherdouble (Mar 9, 2017)

I expect Fly Emirates must be having a rethink. 1st they have to suffer that 2 game embarrassment by the Gonners and then have to suffer that PSG debacle last night. They should claim a refund


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## Fish (Mar 9, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			I expect Fly Emirates must be having a rethink. 1st they have to suffer that 2 game embarrassment by the Gonners and then have to suffer that PSG debacle last night. They should claim a refund
		
Click to expand...

It could be great reverse marketing, show clips of both matches & results then announce;

 'Need to get away from all the crap at home, Fly Emirates will jet you away'

Then break into song, 'There coming to take you away ho ho ha ha he he.....

&#128540;


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## stokie_93 (Mar 9, 2017)

Anyone seen Aguero crawl out of Ryan's back pocket yet? :whoo:


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## Slime (Mar 9, 2017)

Shawcross was immense last night, a very underrated defender.
Not the most skillful but he'll always give you 100% ......................... always.


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## stokie_93 (Mar 9, 2017)

Slime said:



			Shawcross was immense last night, a very underrated defender.
Not the most skillful but he'll always give you 100% ......................... always.
		
Click to expand...

.

That was one of his finer games this season, slightly made up for the horror show he had against Spurs the other week.

A lot of fans been calling for us to replace him this season, after his back problems he seemed to lose a little bit of pace and seemed a bit shaky.
He's a brilliant defender though, totally committed and has been a stalwart player in the growth of our club.


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## Fish (Mar 9, 2017)

Arsenal just released a statement.

Club chairman Sir Chips Keswick has made a rare comment following speculation about the future of manager Arsene Wenger. The Frenchman is under pressure from fans following two 5-1 defeats to Bayern Munich in the Champions League. Supporters are also upset with majority shareholder Stan Kroenke, who rarely speaks in public.

Arsenal chairman Sir Chips Keswick says:
â€œWe are fully aware of the attention currently focused on the club and understand the debate. We respect that fans are entitled to their different individual opinions but we will always run this great football club with its best long-term interests at heart.
"ArsÃ¨ne has a contract until the end of the season. Any decisions will be made by us mutually and communicated at the right time in the right way.â€

So, make of that what you will :mmm:


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## MegaSteve (Mar 9, 2017)

Fish said:



			Arsenal just released a statement.

Club chairman Sir Chips Keswick has made a rare comment following speculation about the future of manager Arsene Wenger. The Frenchman is under pressure from fans following two 5-1 defeats to Bayern Munich in the Champions League. Supporters are also upset with majority shareholder Stan Kroenke, who rarely speaks in public.

Arsenal chairman Sir Chips Keswick says:
â€œWe are fully aware of the attention currently focused on the club and understand the debate. We respect that fans are entitled to their different individual opinions but we will always run this great football club with its best long-term interests at heart.
"ArsÃ¨ne has a contract until the end of the season. Any decisions will be made by us mutually and communicated at the right time in the right way.â€

So, make of that what you will :mmm:
		
Click to expand...


Most unusual for a board member of any PL club to make a public statement... With the unprecedented level of unfounded speculation surrounding the club, at present, the board perhaps felt the need to attempt to steady the ship...


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## jp5 (Mar 9, 2017)

Fish said:



			So, make of that what you will :mmm:
		
Click to expand...

An exercise in how to say absolutely nothing in 85 words


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## USER1999 (Mar 9, 2017)

Normally an expresion of confidence in a footy manager means he is about to be sacked.

Sadly, in this case, i fear not.


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## Fish (Mar 9, 2017)

Marcos Rojo's cousin has been shot dead after allegedly attempting to rob a retired police officer at gunpoint.

http://www.90min.com/posts/4680208-...ident-with-retired-police-officer?a_aid=35927


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 9, 2017)

Slime said:



			Just seen the Suarez dive .................... astonishing!
He'd already been booked for diving so I'd have thought he'd have perfected his technique a bit.
He's a lucky lad and PSG will not want to see the replay!
Nor will Suarez!
		
Click to expand...

Suarez won't mind one bit,let's be honest he's done much worse. 
Fantastic footballer but he's scum.


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## sawtooth (Mar 9, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			Most unusual for a board member of any PL club to make a public statement... With the unprecedented level of unfounded speculation surrounding the club, at present, the board perhaps felt the need to attempt to steady the ship...
		
Click to expand...

I blame the crappy pundits on TV. Most of them know diddly squat about management, never managed in their lives or if they did it was very brief (and badly) yet throw comments around that get picked up and spread around like wild fire. Keown, Wright, Parlour all now getting in on the act as well which I think is pretty disgusting. Its like no one wants to be alone with their individual thoughts on the matter for fear of ridicule. 

Redknapp senior, Gullit, Hoddle and some of the past/present football managers will usually be a lot less critical and often say the fantastic job Wenger is doing. However should I really sit up and take notice of what Ferdinand, Owen, Savage, Jenas et al say? Not really. Most of them change their mind every 2 minutes as well which pretty much sums them up. They cant think for themselves they just pick up on what the first person said and they repeat it parrot fashion, "like Rio just said it was embarrassing, blah blah blah."

Not saying everything is rosy at Arsenal but the things these people come out with, honestly, its embarrassing.


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## Jensen (Mar 9, 2017)

To be fair Wright was one of the earlier ones to question Wenger this season. However both Wrighty and Keown asked questions last season and I think Keown before that.

Even as a Spurs fan, I really like Keown for his analysis I think he's one of the best ones. He's very intellectual, unbiased in his opinion and reads the game well.


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## user2010 (Mar 9, 2017)

Comedy Gold!
https://youtu.be/qkOr9E5IetY


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## user2010 (Mar 9, 2017)

Fish said:



			Marcos Rojo's cousin has been shot dead after allegedly attempting to rob a retired police officer at gunpoint.

http://www.90min.com/posts/4680208-...ident-with-retired-police-officer?a_aid=35927

Click to expand...





GERONIMOOOOOOOOoooooooooooaaaaarrrggghhhh, "thud"


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## Fish (Mar 9, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			past/present football managers will usually be a lot less critical and often say the fantastic job Wenger IS DOING..
		
Click to expand...

I think just like on here you hear or read totally the opposite of what is being said at times or simply choose to ignore what players have actually said in full. 

I've listened to loads of ex Arsenal players and many other players & managers that you list and all of them start by saying what great achievements he's done over the years. 

But their is now, and has been for a while, a more deep seated issue at Arsenal and unfortunately it lies at the feet of Wenger and nobody else because it ain't working any more! 

So like the capitals in your quote as I can't bold them on my iPhone, he is not doing a fantastic job now as in your 'is doing' quote otherwise the storms wouldn't be brewing as they have for at least 12 months and are coming to a point where he's almost being driven out of the Emirates !

Now, as an opposing supporter I'll clearly state that I think some of what he's done in the past and over the years was quite brilliant, but then when a club supports a manager like Arsenal did and puts long term trust in them, it can take a whole lot of pressure off not trying to do everything in super quick time. 

But, the same on the pitch issues that every football fan can see whether they be Arsenal fans or any other team have been evident for at least 12 months if not longer (since Viera going) and still those issues are evident now, if not worse. 

Personally I think it's a shame, but there's always a time when you just have to walk away before what we are seeing now undoes all those memorable things he's done because fans that loved him now hate him as he drags their beloved club down. 

It's almost like he's scared to leave, after so long can he manage another club or does he retire, but I don't think he can retire, he lives for the game and is it possible that being at Arsenal for so long has created this untenable situation? 

I think he's going to try to finish 4th and then leave but I'm afraid that if he doesn't get 4th he won't want to leave that way and would have to be let go, with no new contract being offered.


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## Fish (Mar 9, 2017)

Is this round 16 in Europa home & away ties? Rostov holding United 1-1 currently and apparently the pitch (field) is astrocious!


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## Stuart_C (Mar 9, 2017)

Fish said:



			Is this round 16 in Europa home & away ties? Rostov holding United 1-1 currently and apparently the pitch (field) is astrocious!
		
Click to expand...


Yes. 1st leg


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 9, 2017)

Apologies for the Daily Mail link but is this the beginning of the end for free streaming of Premier League football.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ague-gets-piracy-court-order-ban-streams.html


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 9, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Apologies for the Daily Mail link but is this the beginning of the end for free streaming of Premier League football.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ague-gets-piracy-court-order-ban-streams.html

Click to expand...

No doubt people will disagree but this is good news.


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## Jensen (Mar 9, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No doubt people will disagree but this is good news.
		
Click to expand...

Why ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 9, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Why ?
		
Click to expand...

Because why should people avoid paying the required price for something ? Not paying for the football and using illegal streams is basically theft.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 9, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because why should people avoid paying the required price for something ? Not paying for the football and using illegal streams is basically theft.
		
Click to expand...

Just take comfort in the fact that you're going to heaven for being a saint Phil &#128077;&#127995;

Personally I don't bother with the streams because it's too much hassle. 
I like to turn on my sky box & know that I'll have none interrupted viewing.


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## Tiger man (Mar 9, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because why should people avoid paying the required price for something ? Not paying for the football and using illegal streams is basically theft.
		
Click to expand...

Yes because football is really struggling at the minute with all the lost revenue. .  You're not feeling sorry for sky surely.


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## Jensen (Mar 9, 2017)

Tiger man said:



			Yes because football is really struggling at the minute with all the lost revenue. .  You're not feeling sorry for sky surely.
		
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My question to Phil was a "loaded question "

My sentiments are the same as Tiger man.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 9, 2017)

Jensen said:



			My question to Phil was a "loaded question "

My sentiments are the same as Tiger man.
		
Click to expand...

So because a company is doing well it's ok to steal from them ? 

There is no justification for it - if someone wants to watch the subscription sport then pay for it. Regardless of how well the sport is doing not paying for it when it's required is theft.


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## Jensen (Mar 9, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So because a company is doing well it's ok to steal from them ? 

There is no justification for it - if someone wants to watch the subscription sport then pay for it. Regardless of how well the sport is doing not paying for it when it's required is theft.
		
Click to expand...

I was a Sky customer for over 20 years, and for the majority of that time the subscription was fair and in line with other leisure costs/bills. However sadly that is no longer the case and the cost has become extremely disproportionate. 

The majority of the money is paid straight to players, and hardly anything is put back into developing the game or grass roots.

Furthermore Sky hardly produce any of their own content, merely relying on others.

Streaming gives me the opportunity to watch the live football matches that I want to watch at 3 pm on a Saturday. Sky don't provide that.

In addition Sky tried to shaft me when my deal came to an end by offering me one that was totally uncompetitive. It was only after I bought an android and left,  did they offer me a deal that was cheaper than anything I had paid before. By that time it was too late. If Sky had treated me better as a loyal customer I would have stayed. However if that's how they treat customers then what do they expect ?
As it turns out it's worked out better due to the choice I now have.

Do I have any remorse? None whatsoever, and each time I stream an event from Sky I have a smile on my face. Sky tried to turn me over, now it's my turn to return the favour....


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 9, 2017)

Jensen said:



			I was a Sky customer for over 20 years, and for the majority of that time the subscription was fair and in line with other leisure costs/bills. However sadly that is no longer the case and the cost has become extremely disproportionate. 

The majority of the money is paid straight to players, and hardly anything is put back into developing the game or grass roots.

Furthermore Sky hardly produce any of their own content, merely relying on others.

Streaming gives me the opportunity to watch the live football matches that I want to watch at 3 pm on a Saturday. Sky don't provide that.

In addition Sky tried to shaft me when my deal came to an end by offering me one that was totally uncompetitive. It was only after I bought an android and left,  did they offer me a deal that was cheaper than anything I had paid before. By that time it was too late. If Sky had treated me better as a loyal customer I would have stayed. However if that's how they treat customers then what do they expect ?
As it turns out it's worked out better due to the choice I now have.

Do I have any remorse? None whatsoever, and each time I stream an event from Sky I have a smile on my face. Sky tried to turn me over, now it's my turn to return the favour....
		
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter what you say or indeed anyone says - if you want the service they provide then you must pay for it.

If you think it's too expensive and not worth the price then don't pay but also you don't get to watch it. 

The price of everything goes up these days - if you can't afford to pay it then again you don't get to watch it.

Unless it's a free service offered then you pay the going rate. Trying to find some moral route doesn't give any justification. 

Both myself and my wife work within media companies affected by illegal streaming - we are working at stronger ways to block them with our customers and I'm glad this court order happens because and the end of the day it's theft and there is no such thing as a victimless crime. 

If there is something I want to watch and I need to pay for it then I'll pay what's needed. If I can get a deal then great but il still pay the fee.

I'll be smiling when the boxes and streams get stopped. Who knows more paying customers might bring the bills down


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## Jensen (Mar 9, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'll be smiling when the boxes and streams get stopped. Who knows more paying customers might bring the bills down
		
Click to expand...

Ha, ha, ha I've split my sides laughing, I'm on my way to A&E now.

Surely you're not that naive.....


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## MegaSteve (Mar 10, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because why should people avoid paying the required price for something ? ....
		
Click to expand...


Something we can agree on...  The folk providing the 'illegal streams' should be strung up by their private parts... And that, hopefully, would put an end to it...


Not a topic for the footie thread though...


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 10, 2017)

Seen a very good interview with Joe Hart on the premier League show last night .
He seems to be enjoying playing in Italy , but you could tell it hurt to lose his home club no1 place.
He did not rule out a return to the prem but does Pep want him if not a lot of Liverpool fans would welcome him to Anfield.
Have always thought he was a great keeper which we could do with at the moment.
Do any City fans think the keepers you have at the moment really are better than Joe Hart because I don't.
It does state that With Buffoon reaching 40 next year Juventas might be keeping an eye on him as he is already used to the way of life, languages etc.
Worth a watch on iplayer BBC 2.


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## richy (Mar 10, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Doesn't matter what you say or indeed anyone says - if you want the service they provide then you must pay for it.

If you think it's too expensive and not worth the price then don't pay but also you don't get to watch it. 

The price of everything goes up these days - if you can't afford to pay it then again you don't get to watch it.

Unless it's a free service offered then you pay the going rate. Trying to find some moral route doesn't give any justification. 

Both myself and my wife work within media companies affected by illegal streaming - we are working at stronger ways to block them with our customers and I'm glad this court order happens because and the end of the day it's theft and there is no such thing as a victimless crime. 

If there is something I want to watch and I need to pay for it then I'll pay what's needed. If I can get a deal then great but il still pay the fee.

I'll be smiling when the boxes and streams get stopped. Who knows more paying customers might bring the bills down
		
Click to expand...

You are the complete model citizen.


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## One Planer (Mar 10, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Doesn't matter what you say or indeed anyone says - if you want the service they provide then you must pay for it.

If you think it's too expensive and not worth the price then don't pay but also you don't get to watch it. 

The price of everything goes up these days - if you can't afford to pay it then again you don't get to watch it.

Unless it's a free service offered then you pay the going rate. Trying to find some moral route doesn't give any justification. 

Both myself and my wife work within media companies affected by illegal streaming - we are working at stronger ways to block them with our customers and I'm glad this court order happens because and the end of the day it's theft and there is no such thing as a victimless crime. 

If there is something I want to watch and I need to pay for it then I'll pay what's needed. If I can get a deal then great but il still pay the fee.

I'll be smiling when the boxes and streams get stopped. *Who knows more paying customers might bring the bills down*

Click to expand...

Yes, because Sky's customer base has not grown at all over the last 20 years 

Has the cost of a Sky subscription dropped in line with their growing customer base over the same period?


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## stokie_93 (Mar 10, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Seen a very good interview with Joe Hart on the premier League show last night .
He seems to be enjoying playing in Italy , but you could tell it hurt to lose his home club no1 place.
He did not rule out a return to the prem but does Pep want him if not a lot of Liverpool fans would welcome him to Anfield.
Have always thought he was a great keeper which we could do with at the moment.
Do any City fans think the keepers you have at the moment really are better than Joe Hart because I don't.
It does state that With Buffoon reaching 40 next year Juventas might be keeping an eye on him as he is already used to the way of life, languages etc.
Worth a watch on iplayer BBC 2.
		
Click to expand...

.
read the write up of it rather than the video.

I admire Joe Hart for what a model professional he is. Knuckles down with his game and doesn't get detracted away from his performances by the media etc.

Even as a non Man City fan you had to feel sorry for how it was dealt with when Pep moved in but as Hart himself pointed out his face just didn't fit the bill for Pep.

He's not quite on the level of De Gea, Cech, Courtois, Lloris etc but he is a very good goalkeeper and would easily get in the majority of Premiership teams. 
I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up at one of the Merseyside teams or even someone like Palace, West Ham etc.


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## The Evertonian (Mar 10, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So because a company is doing well it's ok to steal from them ? 

There is no justification for it - if someone wants to watch the subscription sport then pay for it. Regardless of how well the sport is doing not paying for it when it's required is theft.
		
Click to expand...

So if I have a sky subscription and a fire stick to stream games on am I still thieving?
Sky don't always provide me with the games I want to watch, why should I pay a subscription then be dictated to as to what I can and can't watch?
Streaming equates to choice...Power to the people!!!


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## Kellfire (Mar 11, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			So if I have a sky subscription and a fire stick to stream games on am I still thieving?
Sky don't always provide me with the games I want to watch, why should I pay a subscription then be dictated to as to what I can and can't watch?
Streaming equates to choice...Power to the people!!!
		
Click to expand...

You're stealing from which company is broadcasting in that regard. Might be Sky, might be a company in a different company. But you're still illegally accessing it.


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## The Evertonian (Mar 11, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			You're stealing from which company is broadcasting in that regard. Might be Sky, might be a company in a different company. But you're still illegally accessing it.
		
Click to expand...

I'll pop a silly hat on and you can call me Robin Hood:thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 11, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			You're stealing from which company is broadcasting in that regard. Might be Sky, might be a company in a different company. But you're still illegally accessing it.
		
Click to expand...

If I am watching a match on a Middle East TV station via the internet, who am I stealing it from, the PL have received their money, Sky have received theirs and it's broadcast free in said country, who am I stealing from?

Different watching matches broadcast on Sky in UK and not paying, I agree it's theft.

Today Everton v WBA is not available to me on TV to pay for, so I will search for a foreign channel to watch it.

If I could pay to watch it on TV I would.

Surely it can only be theft if I was dodging paying.

Why do other countries get to show games for free that we can't access.

Maybe there is a difference between illegal download and theft? Can anyone explain?

Not expecting you to have all the answers, just don't think it's as straightforward as making Sky out to be a victim.


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## The Evertonian (Mar 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			If I am watching a match on a Middle East TV station via the internet, who am I stealing it from, the PL have received their money, Sky have received theirs and it's broadcast free in said country, who am I stealing from?

Different watching matches broadcast on Sky in UK and not paying, I agree it's theft.

Today Everton v WBA is not available to me on TV to pay for, so I will search for a foreign channel to watch it.

If I could pay to watch it on TV I would.

Surely it can only be theft if I was dodging paying.

Why do other countries get to show games for free that we can't access.

Maybe there is a difference between illegal download and theft? Can anyone explain?

Not expecting you to have all the answers, just don't think it's as straightforward as making Sky out to be a victim.
		
Click to expand...

I'm off down County Road to Goodison this afternoon, don't you dare stream it after I've paid for my ticket :blah:

Seriously though...do you fancy us for the win today mate?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 11, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			I'm off down County Road to Goodison this afternoon, don't you dare stream it after I've paid for my ticket :blah:

Seriously though...do you fancy us for the win today mate?
		
Click to expand...

If I can't get a good picture you'll have to facetime or periscope it :rofl:

Be happy with a 1-0 win, but hopefully it'll be a bit more convincing, need to get back to winning and creating a gap over them in 8th.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 11, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			So if I have a sky subscription and a fire stick to stream games on am I still thieving?
Sky don't always provide me with the games I want to watch, why should I pay a subscription then be dictated to as to what I can and can't watch?
Streaming equates to choice...Power to the people!!!
		
Click to expand...

The only companies that are legally allowed to televise live premier league football in this country are sky and bt - watching it live via any other method is illegal.

Sky and BT also are only allowed to televise a certain amount of games and right now they are not allowed to broadcast any live games at 3pm on the Saturday 

We would all love to watch every single game whenever we but legally we can't - it doesn't make someone a bad person because the believe someone illegally watching the sport is wrong - I pay my subscription to watch the sport , if the game I want to watch isn't on then I'll listen to it on the radio or wait for highlights 

All the streaming etc is just the typical of modern "want but won't pay" society we live in


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## Papas1982 (Mar 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			If I am watching a match on a Middle East TV station via the internet, who am I stealing it from, the PL have received their money, Sky have received theirs and it's broadcast free in said country, who am I stealing from?

Different watching matches broadcast on Sky in UK and not paying, I agree it's theft.

Today Everton v WBA is not available to me on TV to pay for, so I will search for a foreign channel to watch it.

If I could pay to watch it on TV I would.

Surely it can only be theft if I was dodging paying.

Why do other countries get to show games for free that we can't access.

Maybe there is a difference between illegal download and theft? Can anyone explain?

Not expecting you to have all the answers, just don't think it's as straightforward as making Sky out to be a victim.
		
Click to expand...

The original ruling in regards to live tv was to make sure that tv figures didn't affect attendances. So for you're argument i suppose you could say that the you are stealing from the clubs (not that i think you are). Personally think the tv deals should now include 3pm kick offs as with all todays modern tech, people want to be able to view he games an dunless there is a legal way, people will circumvent the rules. 

I pay for sky and bt and don't begrudge either.But will stream 3pm games if i'm not going to the game as i can't see them any other way,


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## The Evertonian (Mar 11, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The only companies that are legally allowed to televise live premier league football in this country are sky and bt - watching it live via any other method is illegal.

Sky and BT also are only allowed to televise a certain amount of games and right now they are not allowed to broadcast any live games at 3pm on the Saturday 

We would all love to watch every single game whenever we but legally we can't - it doesn't make someone a bad person because the believe someone illegally watching the sport is wrong - I pay my subscription to watch the sport , if the game I want to watch isn't on then I'll listen to it on the radio or wait for highlights 

All the streaming etc is just the typical of modern "want but won't pay" society we live in
		
Click to expand...

But I do pay. I paid my sky subscription, I paid for my ticket today, I paid for my firestick and I paid my internet subscription.
I pay my way, this doesn't always get me what I want. I'm not hurting anyone, I'll stream with a free conscience. Infact I won't even mention it next time I go to confession &#128580;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 11, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The only companies that are legally allowed to televise live premier league football in this country are sky and bt - watching it live via any other method is illegal.

Sky and BT also are only allowed to televise a certain amount of games and right now they are not allowed to broadcast any live games at 3pm on the Saturday 

We would all love to watch every single game whenever we but legally we can't - it doesn't make someone a bad person because the believe someone illegally watching the sport is wrong - I pay my subscription to watch the sport , if the game I want to watch isn't on then I'll listen to it on the radio or wait for highlights 

All the streaming etc is just the typical of modern "want but won't pay" society we live in
		
Click to expand...

You've switched your position, you accussed people of theft now no mention of theft just the term illegal.

Genuine question to anybody, 

What offence am I committing if I (on my own)  watch a free to air channel from another country on my computer via the internet?

I will happily pay for what I want and do, nothing to do with the "want but won't pay" society.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 11, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			The original ruling in regards to live tv was to make sure that tv figures didn't affect attendances. So for you're argument i suppose you could say that the you are stealing from the clubs (not that i think you are). Personally think the tv deals should now include 3pm kick offs as with all todays modern tech, people want to be able to view he games an dunless there is a legal way, people will circumvent the rules. 

I pay for sky and bt and don't begrudge either.But will stream 3pm games if i'm not going to the game as i can't see them any other way,
		
Click to expand...

Same for me, full Sky and BT package still, 
I understand people or pubs who make money from it is wrong, why should they make a profit from someone elses product, they should pay their way, just don't see how a private individual in their home can be accussed of theft? Who's the victim? Clubs will get their money regardless whether 1 or 1 million people see it.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Same for me, full Sky and BT package still, 
I understand people or pubs who make money from it is wrong, why should they make a profit from someone elses product, they should pay their way, just don't see how a private individual in their home can be accussed of theft? Who's the victim? Clubs will get their money regardless whether 1 or 1 million people see it.
		
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I think when it first happened they were worried that attendances would fall so would cost clubs money, or just as likely, less at the game makes less atmosphere therefor worse product and the whole idea fails.

Now it clearly works i think one of two things will have to happen, either more games are made available or clubs will icense their games individually. In spain Barca and Madrid take the lions share of sky money. Respect to the bigger names in England for not trying the same because quite obviously in regards to fan base there are clearly vast differences in the popularity of the clubs in the prem.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			You've switched your position, you accussed people of theft now no mention of theft just the term illegal.

Genuine question to anybody, 

What offence am I committing if I (on my own)  watch a free to air channel from another country on my computer via the internet?

I will happily pay for what I want and do, nothing to do with the "want but won't pay" society.
		
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I believe it is very much like movie piracy. The people that are likely to be prosecuted are those that broadcast it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 11, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I think when it first happened they were worried that attendances would fall so would cost clubs money, or just as likely, less at the game makes less atmosphere therefor worse product and the whole idea fails.

Now it clearly works i think one of two things will have to happen, either more games are made available or clubs will icense their games individually. In spain Barca and Madrid take the lions share of sky money. Respect to the bigger names in England for not trying the same because quite obviously in regards to fan base there are clearly vast differences in the popularity of the clubs in the prem.
		
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I think a lot of what's posted about streaming, whether that be football or movies, is that watching and not downloading are different, even copyright laws are civil offences and companies would have to prove loss of revenue and as I won't be paying to watch today, they've lost nothing.
By all means chase those making money off it, but until that time comes and it disappears, I'll get comfy in my armchair and enjoy.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 11, 2017)

Not read the last dozen pages so apologies if it has been said but, if sky and BT were not charging a fortune then less people would be looking for alternative viewing sources. The costs have got astronomical.

Am not saying it is right, but people don't want to feel like they have had there pants down.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I think a lot of what's posted about streaming, whether that be football or movies, is that watching and not downloading are different, even copyright laws are civil offences and companies would have to prove loss of revenue and as I won't be paying to watch today, they've lost nothing.
By all means chase those making money off it, but until that time comes and it disappears, I'll get comfy in my armchair and enjoy.
		
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My other half is a cinema manager and the introduction of digital films has quite clearly hit them.Piracy is so much easier and the content online now is clearly of a higher standard. #

The laws in the uk are still quite strict and cinemas have lots of practices to combat this, i doubt anyone really watches movies recorded on phones of recorded these days. The best copies are generally with Chinese or eastern European markers on where it appears they are less concerned with the laws.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 11, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Not read the last dozen pages so apologies if it has been said but, if sky and BT were not charging a fortune then less people would be looking for alternative viewing sources. The costs have got astronomical.

Am not saying it is right, but people don't want to feel like they have had there pants down.
		
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How much was the average season ticket a decade ago? Have they reason at a slower rate than sky?

I think if people are streaming 3pm games as they aren't available then i can understand, but to put it down to cost isn't right imo.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 11, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Not read the last dozen pages so apologies if it has been said but, if sky and BT were not charging a fortune then less people would be looking for alternative viewing sources. The costs have got astronomical.

Am not saying it is right, but people don't want to feel like they have had there pants down.
		
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To be fair though Tash, I agree with Phil and others when a service is available to buy, the difference to me is when it's not available.

Simple supply and demand.

None of the 3pm kick offs are available to UK customers, so if it's on free to air channel in another Country then I will try and watch.


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## MegaSteve (Mar 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Genuine question to anybody, 

What offence am I committing if I (on my own)  watch a free to air channel from another country on my computer via the internet?
		
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Has the provider paid his dues? or Is he just ripping off a genuine provider?


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## MegaSteve (Mar 11, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I believe it is very much like movie piracy. The people that are likely to be prosecuted are those that broadcast it.
		
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As I said earlier, string 'em up by their private parts with cheese cutter wire...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 11, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			Has the provider paid his dues? or Is he just ripping off a genuine provider?
		
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I take your point, but still doesn't answer what offence, criminal or civil, am I committing.


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## MegaSteve (Mar 11, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Not read the last dozen pages so apologies if it has been said but, if sky and BT were not charging a fortune then less people would be looking for alternative viewing sources. The costs have got astronomical.

Am not saying it is right, but people don't want to feel like they have had there pants down.
		
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Back in the day did you buy your car stereo from the geezer in the pub car park? 
After all no one is loosing out... The insurance should have it all covered...


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## MegaSteve (Mar 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I take your point, but still doesn't answer what offence, criminal or civil, am I committing.
		
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I am not a lawyer....


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 11, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			Back in the day did you buy your car stereo from the geezer in the pub car park? 
After all no one is loosing out... The insurance should have it all covered...
		
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Everytime you've broken the speed limit (by accident or design) have you voluntarily handed yourself in and paid the fine?


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## Hobbit (Mar 11, 2017)

I can't afford to be a member at Kingsbarns but I'll sneak on at twilight. I am a member of the SGU and I do pay subs elsewhere. And I'm not hurting anyone.

If we're dealing in weak justifications, "kingsy on den," you can't touch me.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 11, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			I can't afford to be a member at Kingsbarns but I'll sneak on at twilight. I am a member of the SGU and I do pay subs elsewhere. And I'm not hurting anyone.

If we're dealing in weak justifications, "kingsy on den," you can't touch me.
		
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Maybe it's being a bit pedantic Bri, but there is a difference between choosing not to pay for something and that something not being made available.

Are any of us really that 100% clean?


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## MegaSteve (Mar 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Maybe it's being a bit pedantic Bri, but there is a difference between choosing not to pay for something and that something not being made available.

Are any of us really that 100% clean?
		
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Never knowingly taken something that wasn't mine to have...

But I have, on occasion, knowingly driven above the speed limit and not handed myself in for prosecution...

So No, I am not Mr Perfect..


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## MegaSteve (Mar 11, 2017)

Anyway back to footie...

Heard that some Gooners are hoping for their team to lose today so they can give their Wenger Out banners another airing... Can't quite get my head around that...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 11, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			Never knowingly taken something that wasn't mine to have...

But I have, on occasion, knowingly driven above the speed limit and not handed myself in for prosecution...

So No, I am not Mr Perfect..
		
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We all have grey areas mate, just some wider than others. :thup:

And if the streams are closed down I'll have no issue with it and campaign for Ceefax to come back


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 11, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			Anyway back to footie...

Heard that some Gooners are hoping for their team to lose today so they can give their Wenger Out banners another airing... Can't quite get my head around that...
		
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Still think Arsenal could be a decent outside bet for the Cup, that'll really split the Arsenal fans over Wenger then, but could also give Arsene a chance to leave as a winning manager.


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## MegaSteve (Mar 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Still think Arsenal could be a decent outside bet for the Cup, that'll really split the Arsenal fans over Wenger then, but could also give Arsene a chance to leave as a winning manager.
		
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Genuinely believe Arsene has been rattled by the level of discontent from the fans at present... He's had to face it before, but not quite to this level... So no, I won't be surprised if, this time, he walks of his on volition.. And, would really like it to be after him lifting the Cup one more time..


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## sawtooth (Mar 11, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			Anyway back to footie...

Heard that some Gooners are hoping for their team to lose today so they can give their Wenger Out banners another airing... Can't quite get my head around that...
		
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Neither can I but these pathetic morons are in the minority. 

Most Gooners will definitely not be wanting Arsenal to lose today. :thup:


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## The Evertonian (Mar 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Still think Arsenal could be a decent outside bet for the Cup, that'll really split the Arsenal fans over Wenger then, but could also give Arsene a chance to leave as a winning manager.
		
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They can't be an outside bet when they're 3/1 joint favourites. 
It wouldn't surprise me one bit if they went on to win it, they have become a cup side over the last decade or so.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 11, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			They can't be an outside bet when they're 3/1 joint favourites. 
It wouldn't surprise me one bit if they went on to win it, they have become a cup side over the last decade or so.
		
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Joint now, but expect last 4 to be them, City, Spurs and Chelsea and would see them as the current weakest out of them, they're only joint fav as they have lincoln in this round.


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## Jensen (Mar 11, 2017)

Any way back to the streaming debate.....

What about on Soccer Saturday where the pundits watch live games and give a running commentary.  Their watching matches covered by Sky. So if they can watch it at 3pm, then why don't Sky show these games


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## garyinderry (Mar 11, 2017)

The streams being stopped is the usual scare stories that appear at least once a year. 


Being able to watch 3pm kick offs live is fantastic.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 11, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Any way back to the streaming debate.....

What about on Soccer Saturday where the pundits watch live games and give a running commentary.  Their watching matches covered by Sky. So if they can watch it at 3pm, then why don't Sky show these games
		
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The worry for the fa was that if all games could be viewed live, people wouldn't attend.

Pundits are a handful of people and offer a service much like radio commentators and being able to have their options wouldn't stop someone attending a game imo. But if all games could be viewed from home then a sky subscription for ports is probably cheaper than most season tickets. Especially if a bunch of mates just got one account..


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 11, 2017)

Huge win for Hull today. Keeps them in touch. I didn't give them a chance but the new manager is doing very well with what he has.


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## USER1999 (Mar 11, 2017)

Big win for the Arse today. We would boss that league.


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## sawtooth (Mar 11, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Big win for the Arse today. We would boss that league.
		
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Agreed, no City, United and Chelsea to worry about.


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## fundy (Mar 11, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Big win for the Arse today. We would boss that league.
		
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does that mean we win the week 6-5


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## Fish (Mar 11, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Agreed, no City, United and Chelsea to worry about.
		
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Why just them, what about Liverpool, Leicester, Everton, Spurs, Bournemouth & Middlesborough, the others teams you've not beaten this season &#129300;&#128540;

Enjoy your day today, it took 45+ minutes to score against a non league side, with no disrespect to Lincoln, but on your own pitch I think irrelevant of the final score, that's pretty shocking!


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 11, 2017)

Fish said:



			Enjoy your day today, it took 45+ minutes to score against a non league side, with no disrespect to Lincoln, but on your own pitch I think irrelevant of the final score, that's pretty shocking!
		
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Sorry Fish but it looks like Sawtooth as brought you down to his level of thinking. 

They won 5-0.
regardless of what minute they got the 1st 
To say it's shocking is just silly.


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## Fish (Mar 11, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Sorry Fish but it looks like Sawtooth as brought you down to his level of thinking. 

They won 5-0.
regardless of what minute they got the 1st 
To say it's shocking is just silly.
		
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I think for a team of Arsenals stature at their own ground against a non league side, to take 45+ minutes to score is shocking, I don't care what you think, that's my opinion.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 11, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think for a team of Arsenals stature at their own ground against a non league side, to take 45+ minutes to score is shocking, I don't care what you think, that's my opinion.
		
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Fair enough. 
So what's your opinion on scoring 5 in the next 45?


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## sawtooth (Mar 11, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think for a team of Arsenals stature at their own ground against a non league side, to take 45+ minutes to score is shocking, I don't care what you think, that's my opinion.
		
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Total lack of respect for Lincoln.

I didn't mention the clubs that on monetary terms are not bigger than Arsenal.

Like i said many times before take Chelsea and City away especially, and Arsenal would have won many more league titles.

Carry on celebrating your hollow trophies, I will wait for our next one but it will at least feel real.


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## Fish (Mar 11, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Fair enough. 
So what's your opinion on scoring 5 in the next 45?
		
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They scored 4 actually (1 own goal) and was to be expected. There was never going to be a fairy tale ending, Lincoln did brilliantly getting this far but fitness and ability was going to eventually kick in. Confidence booster for Arsenal, which they'll need with a couple of tricky fixtures coming up now against the Baggies & City.


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## Fish (Mar 11, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Total lack of respect for Lincoln.

I didn't mention the clubs that on monetary terms are not bigger than Arsenal.

Like i said many times before take Chelsea and City away especially, and Arsenal would have won many more league titles.

Carry on celebrating your hollow trophies, I will wait for our next one but it will at least feel real.
		
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I said in my previous post 'with no disrespect to Lincoln', but as usual your selective with your quotes.   

Take Chelsea & City away and you'd have been 2nd at best &#128540; You don't have the winning mentality or stamina or you'd be 3rd every season now, but your not, and not even close &#128514;

As for waiting for them to win the league, you'll be 6ft under by then &#128514;


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## fundy (Mar 12, 2017)

as they say was always a hiding to nothing, win 5-0 and still some want to pick holes. Its not as if Arsenal dont give you plenty to get stuck into but criticising them when they win 5-0 seems a bit desperate to me


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## Fish (Mar 12, 2017)

fundy said:



			as they say was always a hiding to nothing, win 5-0 and still some want to pick holes. Its not as if Arsenal dont give you plenty to get stuck into but criticising them when they win 5-0 seems a bit desperate to me 

Click to expand...


I've not criticised the eventual result, I've given an opinion that to not score in 45 minutes against a non-league team some 4 divisions lower at home, is shocking imo. 

I'd say exactly the same if any other PL team playing at home against the same kind of opposition couldn't score in that time, even ourselves.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 12, 2017)

fundy said:



			as they say was always a hiding to nothing, win 5-0 and still some want to pick holes. Its not as if Arsenal dont give you plenty to get stuck into but criticising them when they win 5-0 seems a bit desperate to me 

Click to expand...

2 in the first half & 3 in the second.
That's the way to do it &#128514;


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 12, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			2 in the first half & 3 in the second.
That's the way to do it &#62978;
		
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I don't know, I thought Bayern showed them how to do it......


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 12, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I don't know, I thought Bayern showed them how to do it......

Click to expand...

&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## fundy (Mar 12, 2017)

Fish said:



			I've not criticised the eventual result, I've given an opinion that to not score in 45 minutes against a non-league team some 4 divisions lower at home, is shocking imo. 

I'd say exactly the same if any other PL team playing at home against the same kind of opposition couldn't score in that time, even ourselves.
		
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half time score counts for nothing as you know, 90 mins the important bit


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## Fish (Mar 12, 2017)

Is time for the pitch invasion yet &#128540;


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## Fish (Mar 12, 2017)

As it stands in Prem Lge, 7th place Everton qualify for Europa League. FA Cup place will go to the Premier League given the semifinalists


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 12, 2017)

Good battling win today - that's the sort of ugly win we haven't managed to get much this year. 

Little gap to 5th now


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## Stuart_C (Mar 12, 2017)

Not the best of performance's today but 3pts on the board, to put a bit of pressure on Arsenal to win their games in hand.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 12, 2017)

Not a bad goal from Memphis Depay.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 12, 2017)

http://www.thesportbible.com/footba...ng-spare-after-redknapp-interruption-20170312

&#128514;


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 12, 2017)

Ugly win for Liverpool today, and one that has sometimes been missing over the season. Puts a heap of pressure on Wenger and Arsenal to win both games in hand and get back in the top four.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 12, 2017)

Fish said:



			As it stands in Prem Lge, 7th place Everton qualify for Europa League. FA Cup place will go to the Premier League given the semifinalists
		
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I know plenty would disagree but I'd rather not thanks.


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## Fish (Mar 12, 2017)

Manchester United captain Wayne Rooney has been ruled out of the FA Cup quarter-final at Chelsea.

Rooney collided with Phil Jones in training and misses out with a leg injury, while Zlatan Ibrahimovic begins a three-game ban for elbowing Bournemouth's Tyrone Mings.

Forwards Anthony Martial and Marcus Rashford (illness) are also both missing for the holders.

Chelsea coach Antonio Conte has a fully-fit squad at his disposal.

United have no recognised striker available.

Predictions &#129300;


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## Slime (Mar 12, 2017)

If this is all true I'll go 3-0 Chelsea.
If this is all lies I'll go 2-1 Chelsea.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 12, 2017)

This is shocking 

https://twitter.com/sporf/status/841028790511894529

Will never ever understand how people can react with their fists like that. Lack of Brain cells the closest answer


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## Slime (Mar 12, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			This is shocking 

https://twitter.com/sporf/status/841028790511894529
*Will never ever understand how people can react with their fists like that.* Lack of Brain cells the closest answer
		
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It's because they are pieces of utter filth that cannot possibly comprehend how to behave like a human being.
We really don't need things like him on our planet.
I hope they have no children ............... for all our sakes.


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## davemc1 (Mar 13, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			This is shocking 

https://twitter.com/sporf/status/841028790511894529

Will never ever understand how people can react with their fists like that. Lack of Brain cells the closest answer
		
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Playing devils advocate, where they not asking for it?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 13, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			Playing devils advocate, where they not asking for it?
		
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Are people not grown up enough to not resort to violence just because a couple lads singing about a football team - after the England Scotland rugby game the surrounding pubs were full of both Scottish and England fans drinking together one celebrating the other commiserating - England fans singing to have a laugh with the Scottish , no Scottish fan felt that the correct response was to start throwing punches ! So why in football ? 

It's clear that some just don't have the brain matter to just realise in a sport with rivalries at times your team with lose and the opponent will enjoy the win and celebrate it - if some can't handle that then they shouldn't be near a sport.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 13, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			Playing devils advocate, where they not asking for it?
		
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To be honest that was my reaction. At best, goading the Millwall fans given their reputation was an ill thought idea, and it came to an almost inevitable conclusion. To be honest neither side on the clip came out of it well.

All this talk of it not being in rugby is mute as football has always had its share of tribalism and sadly some have used supporting a club, certainly in the last forty years as a convenient excuse to look to have a ruck. That ain't going to change no matter how much tut tutting and hand wringing goes on. Even if the police make arrests, courts rarely back them up and hand out lenient sentencing.

That said, if you know the idiots associated with Milwalll, are two string against a passing wave of several hundred and take liberties and goad them, then you're always going to get one or more rise to the bait.


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## Junior (Mar 13, 2017)

Fish said:



			Manchester United captain Wayne Rooney has been ruled out of the FA Cup quarter-final at Chelsea.

Rooney collided with Phil Jones in training and misses out with a leg injury, while Zlatan Ibrahimovic begins a three-game ban for elbowing Bournemouth's Tyrone Mings.

Forwards Anthony Martial and Marcus Rashford (illness) are also both missing for the holders.

Chelsea coach Antonio Conte has a fully-fit squad at his disposal.

United have no recognised striker available.

Predictions &#63764;
		
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4-0 Chelsea

......hopefully 1-0 smash and grab , Fellani shinning one in


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## Fish (Mar 13, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are people not grown up enough to not resort to violence just because a couple lads singing about a football team
		
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I'm not condoning what happened but they were not just _singing about a football team_, they were goading opposing fans by singing [we feckin hate Millwall] whilst they were walking past having just lost 6-nil, I think they were lucky to get just the 1 isolated slap, they could have caused much more of a situation!


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## Kellfire (Mar 13, 2017)

Fish said:



			United have no recognised striker available.
		
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Rumours that Rashford and Martial are both available are circulating t'interwebs now...


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## Fish (Mar 13, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Rumours that Rashford and Martial are both available are circulating t'interwebs now...
		
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Has Jose found & read old red noses book in his office on how to play the media & mind games, volume 6 :smirk:


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 13, 2017)

I'm not sure they are particularly going to stress Chelsea out if that is the best mind games they can come up with. Good players but Chelsea are top of the table for a reason and there is no sign of a wobble yet.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 13, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I know plenty would disagree but I'd rather not thanks.
		
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If it's a means to an end, ie, we keep our best players and can attract others with European football and progress in the league then I'd risk it with Koeman, if it's back to yo yo league finishers then no thanks.

On saturday after the match Koeman wrote off top 4 for this season and still wants to try for top 6 this season, stated top 4 for next year, maybe a bit optimistic but happy with his attitude.

He won't attract the right players finishing 8th and below every season.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 13, 2017)

I get that. 7th place and Europa suggests qualifying in mid July, no break for the players, Thursday night matches in Kazahkstan etc. Too many pointless matches that mess your league form up when you have a squad size like ours. I would rather not have Europa league this year and see what we can do league wise next year. 

Do players come to your club because you are in the Europa league? Not convinced by that. CL yes, EL no.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 13, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I get that. 7th place and Europa suggests qualifying in mid July, no break for the players, Thursday night matches in Kazahkstan etc. Too many pointless matches that mess your league form up when you have a squad size like ours. I would rather not have Europa league this year and see what we can do league wise next year. 

Do players come to your club because you are in the Europa league? Not convinced by that. CL yes, EL no.
		
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But being brutal, would we have a better chance of getting CL football by reaching top 4 in the PL over 38 games or trying to win the Europa League over half that amount of games and qualifying that way?
I don't want us switching off with10 games to play in case we get EL football.

If we show progress and players see the ambition is for regular CL football and challenging for trophies they'll be interested, if the ambition is 4th or 9th and let's hope next season is better then we'd struggle, hopefully they see EL as a stepping stone to more.


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## Jensen (Mar 13, 2017)

Fish said:



			I'm not condoning what happened but they were not just _singing about a football team_, they were goading opposing fans by singing [we feckin hate Millwall] whilst they were walking past having just lost 6-nil, I think they were lucky to get just the 1 isolated slap, they could have caused much more of a situation!
		
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Yes, can't agree more, even as a Spurs fan.
What do you expect to happen, instead of a slap a handshake and a beer. Something's you don't do, and they were looking for a reaction, which they got


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## MegaSteve (Mar 13, 2017)

Have Carragher and Redknapp had a kiss and a cuddle and made up yet?


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 13, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			Have Carragher and Redknapp had a kiss and a cuddle and made up yet?
		
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Not sure,but Nevilles thoughts on it was quite funny.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 13, 2017)

Durban have pulled out of holding the 2022 Commonwealth Games. There were no other bids. Liverpool Council have offered to hold it. Logic says that like with Manchester a stadium could be built that will then be handed over to Everton. This stadium would be a proper one designed for football ultimately rather than the mess that is the West Ham stadium. It would mean Everton would have to wait another 5 years for a new ground but no doubt it would reduce their costs significantly.

I was down in Liverpool a week ago and was talking to relatives about this. The location is in an old dock area that would be cheap to buy and open for renovation. The worry was the access and crowd dispersal after a game. For those who know the city better than I do, what are your thoughts on this? What can be done to improve mobility and access around that area?

Try hard, difficult I know, to simply make jokes. (okay jokes are allowed at the end of each post if you feel the need)


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 13, 2017)

Fish said:



			I'm not condoning what happened but they were not just _singing about a football team_, they were goading opposing fans by singing [we feckin hate Millwall] whilst they were walking past having just lost 6-nil, I think they were lucky to get just the 1 isolated slap, they could have caused much more of a situation!
		
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It's not really a harsh chant though or one that's deeply insulting. The guy that was punched now has the moral high ground and last laugh as no doubt the guy who punched him will be arrested etc. If he was ignored by everyone then the impact of his trolling is down to nil. 

I just wish this sort of stuff would finally disappear from football


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## Fish (Mar 13, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's not really a harsh chant though or one that's deeply insulting.
		
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I'm sorry Phil but you live in a bubble all of your own, if I stood outside Anfield or any ground and sang the same words to the opposing fans walking past, I'd get a slap, pure and simple!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 13, 2017)

Fish said:



			I'm sorry Phil but you live in a bubble all of your own, if I stood outside Anfield or any ground and sang the same words to the opposing fans walking past, I'd get a slap, pure and simple!
		
Click to expand...

And the coppers could and maybe should arrest you for foul and abusive language or even incitement, scrote was asking for it and bet he's learned his lesson.


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## Fish (Mar 13, 2017)

Tonight's talking points & stats for both teams..

When Owen Hargreaves and Chris Sutton drew each otherâ€™s former clubs, Chelsea and Manchester United, out of the bowl to set up this FA Cup quarter-final, it was instantly hailed the tie of the round.

It has the lot: pride of London versus cock of the North, league leaders against cup holders, Jose Mourinho returning again to the club that sacked him last season, and the two most successful English clubs of the past decade battling to add to their haul of 10 major trophies apiece in that time.

Picked for a weekday evening kick-off, it will also have the floodlit feel of a replay, though such rematches have now been consigned to the past in this venerable old tournament.

In our first FA Cup joust with post-Ferguson Man United, Chelsea are tilting at extending the unbeaten run against the Mancunians from 11 to 12 matches in all competitions. The Blues have won five of the past six meetings at the Bridge in league and cup. United have won only twice in their past 19 visits here. 

The current record of 12 consecutive wins was first set between 17 May and 21 November 2009, and matched with results from 24 September 2014 to 10 January 2015, the second of those runs while Mourinho was at the tiller.

To arrive at this stage of the FA Cup, his current side saw off Championship clubs Reading, Wigan, and Blackburn, with a solitary goal against. The Bluesâ€™ took on League One Peterborough, and the second tier sides Brentford and Wolves, likewise conceding only once.  

In-form Pedroâ€™s goal in each round to date (four in total) means he can still emulate an English â€˜Peterâ€™ â€“ the peerless Osgood â€“ who hit the net in every round of the 1969/70 competition, including the replayed final.

Pedroâ€™s superb finish at Molineux last month was unsurprisingly the 5ft 6in Spaniardâ€™s first header in this competition, whereas five of the eight scored by 6ft 1in Ossie 47 years ago were nodded in.

Mondayâ€™s cup opponents are enjoying a long unbeaten run in the league stretching back to October. That last defeat was, of course, the one they endured at the Bridge. Pedroâ€™s 29.6 seconds opener in that 4-0 triumph remains the fastest goal in the league this season. 

The Premier League frontrunners will surely be in buoyant mood after Mondayâ€™s success at West Ham and Man Cityâ€™s draw with Stoke, which reduced the maximum points now needed to win the title to 24. The Blues have had several days to prepare for this game and Antonio Conte has admitted the FA Cup is â€˜another target for usâ€™.  

In contrast, Mondayâ€™s game is the second of four across three different competitions over 11 days for Man United. The first of three away trips among those required a 4,700-mile round trip to Russia in the Europa League on Thursday. The second leg is at Old Trafford three days after our FA Cup match.

Coincidentally, should the Red Devils progress to the last eight in Europe, the first and second legs would come either side of the Bluesâ€™ visit to Old Trafford, requiring further careful consideration of team selections and priorities. Winning the Europa League this season, remember, gains access to next seasonâ€™s Champions League.

One of the rewards for winning the FA Cup is entry to the 2017/18 Europa League. Another is the Â£1.8m prize money. Each quarter-final winner earns Â£360,000 and National League leaders Lincoln City, who face embattled Arsenal this weekend, deserve enormous credit for their glorious achievement of becoming the first non-league club for 103 years to reach the last eight.

With gate money and broadcast revenue added, the Imps will receive a sudden, club-changing financial injection. They reportedly plan to invest it in infrastructure, especially training and medical areas. Incidentally, Arsenalâ€™s latest 1-5 defeat at the hands of Carlo Ancelotti and Bayern in midweek was their biggest at home under Arsene Wenger since a 5-0 tonking by Gianluca Vialliâ€™s Chelsea in the 1998/99 League Cup. 

This weekendâ€™s round of FA Cup quarter-final matches is the first ever in which there can be no replay. Any game tied after stoppages will be settled on the day with extra time and, if necessary, a penalty shoot-out.

Chelsea have lost our past two penalty shoot-outs, to Bayern Munich in the UEFA Super Cup and Stoke in the League Cup. Our most recent success was in the 2012 Champions League final against Bayern Munich.

Man United have lost their past four penalty shoot-outs. Their last success was in the 2009 League Cup final against Tottenham.

Should additional minutes be required, another innovation will come into play: the authority to use four of the seven substitutes named. This means that a team may use three at any time, and a fourth (or, indeed, all remaining subs up to the four allowed) in extra time.

Extra-time dramas and Man United are a further reminder of that 1970 replay against Leeds at Old Trafford. It was the first final since 1912 to require a second game, and still ranks as the highest ever UK television audience for club football, with 28.5 million viewers on the night.

On a more sombre note, it is the 40th anniversary this month of the tragic death of one of the clubâ€™s immortals from that FA Cup-winning night, Peter Houseman.

The Bluesâ€™ former winger and his wife Sally were killed by a reckless driver in a road accident on 20 March 1977. Their sons are guests of the club at Mondayâ€™s game.


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## user2010 (Mar 13, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's not really a harsh chant though or one that's deeply insulting. The guy that was punched now has the moral high ground and last laugh as no doubt the guy who punched him will be arrested etc. If he was ignored by everyone then the impact of his trolling is down to nil. 

I just wish this sort of stuff would finally disappear from football

Click to expand...



Well, stop posting up stuff that promotes violence then.


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## Kellfire (Mar 13, 2017)

Rashford starts...


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 13, 2017)

How is that a yellow card ! Did he even touch him


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 13, 2017)

I thought that about the first one. Herrera stood his ground and Hazard ran in to him. The second one there was barely a touch and Hazard took a dive.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 13, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			I thought that about the first one. Herrera stood his ground and Hazard ran in to him. The second one there was barely a touch and Hazard took a dive.
		
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First one was foul at most - Hazard throwing himself all over the place

Managers having handbags


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## Kellfire (Mar 13, 2017)

Not sure either are bookable. Think Herrera's reputation for being a niggly player has done for him.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 13, 2017)

Am sure I speak for the masses when I say am gutted Utd are down to 10.&#128513;


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 13, 2017)

He tripped him, he's an idiot. The afters reminded me of Utd of old. Snarling en masse around the ref. Not much respect being shown there.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 13, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			I thought that about the first one. Herrera stood his ground and Hazard ran in to him. The second one there was barely a touch and Hazard took a dive.[/QUOTE
Harerra is noted for stupid fouls Hazard is noted for going down easy what did Oliver see there though.
		
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## Tashyboy (Mar 13, 2017)

Fish said:



			Tonight's talking points & stats for both teams..

When Owen Hargreaves and Chris Sutton drew each otherâ€™s former clubs, Chelsea and Manchester United, out of the bowl to set up this FA Cup quarter-final, it was instantly hailed the tie of the round.

It has the lot: pride of London versus cock of the North, league leaders against cup holders, Jose Mourinho returning again to the club that sacked him last season, and the two most successful English clubs of the past decade battling to add to their haul of 10 major trophies apiece in that time.

Picked for a weekday evening kick-off, it will also have the floodlit feel of a replay, though such rematches have now been consigned to the past in this venerable old tournament.

In our first FA Cup joust with post-Ferguson Man United, Chelsea are tilting at extending the unbeaten run against the Mancunians from 11 to 12 matches in all competitions. The Blues have won five of the past six meetings at the Bridge in league and cup. United have won only twice in their past 19 visits here. 

The current record of 12 consecutive wins was first set between 17 May and 21 November 2009, and matched with results from 24 September 2014 to 10 January 2015, the second of those runs while Mourinho was at the tiller.

To arrive at this stage of the FA Cup, his current side saw off Championship clubs Reading, Wigan, and Blackburn, with a solitary goal against. The Bluesâ€™ took on League One Peterborough, and the second tier sides Brentford and Wolves, likewise conceding only once.  

In-form Pedroâ€™s goal in each round to date (four in total) means he can still emulate an English â€˜Peterâ€™ â€“ the peerless Osgood â€“ who hit the net in every round of the 1969/70 competition, including the replayed final.

Pedroâ€™s superb finish at Molineux last month was unsurprisingly the 5ft 6in Spaniardâ€™s first header in this competition, whereas five of the eight scored by 6ft 1in Ossie 47 years ago were nodded in.

Mondayâ€™s cup opponents are enjoying a long unbeaten run in the league stretching back to October. That last defeat was, of course, the one they endured at the Bridge. Pedroâ€™s 29.6 seconds opener in that 4-0 triumph remains the fastest goal in the league this season. 

The Premier League frontrunners will surely be in buoyant mood after Mondayâ€™s success at West Ham and Man Cityâ€™s draw with Stoke, which reduced the maximum points now needed to win the title to 24. The Blues have had several days to prepare for this game and Antonio Conte has admitted the FA Cup is â€˜another target for usâ€™.  

In contrast, Mondayâ€™s game is the second of four across three different competitions over 11 days for Man United. The first of three away trips among those required a 4,700-mile round trip to Russia in the Europa League on Thursday. The second leg is at Old Trafford three days after our FA Cup match.

Coincidentally, should the Red Devils progress to the last eight in Europe, the first and second legs would come either side of the Bluesâ€™ visit to Old Trafford, requiring further careful consideration of team selections and priorities. Winning the Europa League this season, remember, gains access to next seasonâ€™s Champions League.

One of the rewards for winning the FA Cup is entry to the 2017/18 Europa League. Another is the Â£1.8m prize money. Each quarter-final winner earns Â£360,000 and National League leaders Lincoln City, who face embattled Arsenal this weekend, deserve enormous credit for their glorious achievement of becoming the first non-league club for 103 years to reach the last eight.

With gate money and broadcast revenue added, the Imps will receive a sudden, club-changing financial injection. They reportedly plan to invest it in infrastructure, especially training and medical areas. Incidentally, Arsenalâ€™s latest 1-5 defeat at the hands of Carlo Ancelotti and Bayern in midweek was their biggest at home under Arsene Wenger since a 5-0 tonking by Gianluca Vialliâ€™s Chelsea in the 1998/99 League Cup. 

This weekendâ€™s round of FA Cup quarter-final matches is the first ever in which there can be no replay. Any game tied after stoppages will be settled on the day with extra time and, if necessary, a penalty shoot-out.

Chelsea have lost our past two penalty shoot-outs, to Bayern Munich in the UEFA Super Cup and Stoke in the League Cup. Our most recent success was in the 2012 Champions League final against Bayern Munich.

Man United have lost their past four penalty shoot-outs. Their last success was in the 2009 League Cup final against Tottenham.

Should additional minutes be required, another innovation will come into play: the authority to use four of the seven substitutes named. This means that a team may use three at any time, and a fourth (or, indeed, all remaining subs up to the four allowed) in extra time.

Extra-time dramas and Man United are a further reminder of that 1970 replay against Leeds at Old Trafford. It was the first final since 1912 to require a second game, and still ranks as the highest ever UK television audience for club football, with 28.5 million viewers on the night.

On a more sombre note, it is the 40th anniversary this month of the tragic death of one of the clubâ€™s immortals from that FA Cup-winning night, Peter Houseman.

The Bluesâ€™ former winger and his wife Sally were killed by a reckless driver in a road accident on 20 March 1977. Their sons are guests of the club at Mondayâ€™s game.
		
Click to expand...

Well written, how much are the pies though.


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## pendodave (Mar 13, 2017)

Mou can complain all he likes. Herrara was on a yellow, and the captain had just been given a talking to by the ref because Utd keep chopping down Hazard. 10 seconds later, he chops him down again. Beyond brainless.


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## The Evertonian (Mar 13, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Durban have pulled out of holding the 2022 Commonwealth Games. There were no other bids. Liverpool Council have offered to hold it. Logic says that like with Manchester a stadium could be built that will then be handed over to Everton. This stadium would be a proper one designed for football ultimately rather than the mess that is the West Ham stadium. It would mean Everton would have to wait another 5 years for a new ground but no doubt it would reduce their costs significantly.

I was down in Liverpool a week ago and was talking to relatives about this. The location is in an old dock area that would be cheap to buy and open for renovation. The worry was the access and crowd dispersal after a game. For those who know the city better than I do, what are your thoughts on this? What can be done to improve mobility and access around that area?

Try hard, difficult I know, to simply make jokes. (okay jokes are allowed at the end of each post if you feel the need)
		
Click to expand...

Everton's 'hierarchy' were all down at Bramely Moore dock a couple of months ago, the local press were tipped off by the club and it was splashed all over The Echo. 

There were also rumours the club has already got an agreement to purchase the land for Â£30M should they get the go-ahead for the stadium. I'm not sure if this latest talk of the 'games' being held in the city will hinder the clubs plans or help them.

Either way, for there to be a stadium in that part of the city there is a lot of infrastructure upheaval needed.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 13, 2017)

But he didn't "chop him down". There was barely any contact and Hazard took a dive.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 13, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			Everton's 'hierarchy' were all down at Bramely Moore dock a couple of months ago, the local press were tipped off by the club and it was splashed all over The Echo. 

There were also rumours the club has already got an agreement to purchase the land for Â£30M should they get the go-ahead for the stadium. I'm not sure if this latest talk of the 'games' being held in the city will hinder the clubs plans or help them.

Either way, for there to be a stadium in that part of the city there is a lot of infrastructure upheaval needed.
		
Click to expand...

If they tie in with the Games then presumably the council, gov't and various bodies may contribute to the building and other costs. Infrastructure improvements may slide through easier as well. I can only see it helping, also being part of a redevelopment plan. The difficulty is moving people in and out. That's the toughest issue.


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## Junior (Mar 13, 2017)

Herrera  I don't think the first one was a yellow, but it was only a matter of time before he got 2 of them. He was getting stuck in and Hazard knows how to get a foul. 

C'mon Yernited.....smash and grab time.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Durban have pulled out of holding the 2022 Commonwealth Games. There were no other bids. Liverpool Council have offered to hold it. Logic says that like with Manchester a stadium could be built that will then be handed over to Everton. This stadium would be a proper one designed for football ultimately rather than the mess that is the West Ham stadium. It would mean Everton would have to wait another 5 years for a new ground but no doubt it would reduce their costs significantly.

I was down in Liverpool a week ago and was talking to relatives about this. The location is in an old dock area that would be cheap to buy and open for renovation. The worry was the access and crowd dispersal after a game. For those who know the city better than I do, what are your thoughts on this? What can be done to improve mobility and access around that area?

Try hard, difficult I know, to simply make jokes. (okay jokes are allowed at the end of each post if you feel the need)
		
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be very happy, as a council tax payer where there's been a massive reduction in services around the city, if the council "hand the stadium over" after the games IF we were successful in getting the games.


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## pendodave (Mar 13, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			But he didn't "chop him down". There was barely any contact and Hazard took a dive.
		
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I said 'they' keep chopping him down. And they have, all night. Herrara just committed a 'normal' foul after the ref warned the skipper that he wasn't going to tolerate the persistent fouling of Hazard.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 13, 2017)

[/QUOTE] Harerra is noted for stupid fouls Hazard is noted for going down easy what did Oliver see there though.[/QUOTE]

If the referee is going to base his decisions on the reputation of the player then surely Fellani and Costa should be sent off before every match even starts.


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## One Planer (Mar 13, 2017)

Harerra is noted for stupid fouls Hazard is noted for going down easy what did Oliver see there though.[/QUOTE]

If the referee is going to base his decisions on the reputation of the player then surely Fellani and Costa should be sent off before every match even starts.[/QUOTE]

:rofl:


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## pendodave (Mar 13, 2017)

Have to say, when you watch a game like this,it reminds you how bang average a lot of the week to week stuff is. And this is two teams that i am happy to see lose every time they rock up.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I wouldn't be very happy, as a council tax payer where there's been a massive reduction in services around the city, if the council "hand the stadium over" after the games IF we were successful in getting the games.
		
Click to expand...

Nobody else wants the Games, it's Liverpool's if they want it from what I see. What else would you do with a stadium if not hand it over. Clearly money has to be paid out but the amount is there to be negotiated. There may also be central gov't money as part of a regeneration plan, similar to the Olympic stadium area.

I do understand your point about taking this on at a time of cutbacks but it is amazing how money can be found when you think there isn't any.


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## Fish (Mar 13, 2017)

Kante &#128540;&#128077;

Nothing to do with 10 men as every red shirt was behind the ball, take a bow son &#128526;


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Nobody else wants the Games, it's Liverpool's if they want it from what I see. What else would you do with a stadium if not hand it over. Clearly money has to be paid out but the amount is there to be negotiated. There may also be central gov't money as part of a regeneration plan, similar to the Olympic stadium area.

I do understand your point about taking this on at a time of cutbacks but it is amazing how money can be found when you think there isn't any.
		
Click to expand...

The council are already footing the Â£12m bill for schemes to improve roads, train stops etc around the  site of the potential new stadium. I'm pretty sure councillor and life long blue joe Anderson will bend over backwards to make sure Everton get a hand just like he did with the deal at finch farm.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 13, 2017)

How much did UTD spend on Pogba? 
&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 13, 2017)

Rashford just made Cahill look like a Sunday league footballer with that run but has to score at the end of it. Poor attempt at the finish.


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## The Evertonian (Mar 13, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Nobody else wants the Games, it's Liverpool's if they want it from what I see. What else would you do with a stadium if not hand it over. Clearly money has to be paid out but the amount is there to be negotiated. There may also be central gov't money as part of a regeneration plan, similar to the Olympic stadium area.

I do understand your point about taking this on at a time of cutbacks but it is amazing how money can be found when you think there isn't any.
		
Click to expand...

I think the stadium plans are further down the line than people are really aware, the architect(Dan Meis) has already been given the gig from what I can gather.
I don't really care for the Comenwealth Games, I don't want the stadium to have any outside influences and I definitely don't want a bowl type stadium. It needs to be a purpose built stadium with Everton's needs at the top of the agenda.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			The council are already footing the Â£12m bill for schemes to improve roads, train stops etc around the  site of the potential new stadium. I'm pretty sure councillor and life long blue joe Anderson will bend over backwards to make sure Everton get a hand just like he did with the deal at finch farm.
		
Click to expand...

I seem to remember Anderson and LPool FC  announcing a 200 Mil regeneration project around Anfield or does that not count?


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			I think the stadium plans are further down the line than people are really aware, the architect(Dan Meis) has already been given the gig from what I can gather.
I don't really care for the Comenwealth Games, I don't want the stadium to have any outside influences and I definitely don't want a bowl type stadium. It needs to be a purpose built stadium with Everton's needs at the top of the agenda.
		
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Have Everton got the funding in place to not have to rely on outside influences?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 13, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			I think the stadium plans are further down the line than people are really aware, the architect(Dan Meis) has already been given the gig from what I can gather.
I don't really care for the Comenwealth Games, I don't want the stadium to have any outside influences and I definitely don't want a bowl type stadium. It needs to be a purpose built stadium with Everton's needs at the top of the agenda.
		
Click to expand...

The only way that the needs of Everton are top of the agenda is if they are paying for the stadium nuts and bolts 

If a stadium is being funded by the council to help host the commonwealth games then that's what is the priority


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## Tashyboy (Mar 13, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			How much did UTD spend on Pogba? 
&#62978;&#62978;&#62978;
		
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You know what I was just thinking how much did Chelsea pay for Hazard coz he is a steal compared to what was paid for Pogba.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I seem to remember Anderson and LPool FC  announcing a 200 Mil regeneration project around Anfield or does that not count? 

Click to expand...

The Anfield area was left to rot for numerous years Anderson and his cronies, I'd like to know where the Â£200m was spent, because most of the new homes that have been built in and around the stadium certainly aren't social housing.

Backhanders aots.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 13, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Rashford just made Cahill look like a Sunday league footballer with that run but has to score at the end of it. Poor attempt at the finish.
		
Click to expand...

But he's still young and last season was the breakthrough season wasn't it? I think as he gets better and confidence grows (ideally playing regularly) he'll turn into a good finisher on top of what else he has. To be fair he has already scored some good goals in his young career. I like him and think he could be good for England going forward too


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## Imurg (Mar 13, 2017)

Valencia just fouled Hazard....
So why wasn't he booked?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			The Anfield area was left to rot for numerous years Anderson and his cronies, I'd like to know where the Â£200m was spent, because most of the new homes that have been built in and around the stadium certainly aren't social housing.

Backhanders aots.
		
Click to expand...

The Club owned most of the houses that were left to rot as part of its expansion plan.
Part of the proposed 200 mil included areas around the ground concourse and club shop didn't it?


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## The Evertonian (Mar 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Have Everton got the funding in place to not have to rely on outside influences?
		
Click to expand...

Well the stadium is the new owners main priority and has been since the day he took over, that was before any talk of the Commonwealth games. 
I don't want our stadium to be funded by any council or Goverment grants just as much as the next council tax paying member of the city.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 13, 2017)

Two footed from Valencia ?


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## Imurg (Mar 13, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Two footed from Valencia ?
		
Click to expand...

And no card.
Yet Herrera gets 2 yellows for less....


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 13, 2017)

More reds to come at this rate. United getting totally frustrated now


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## Fish (Mar 13, 2017)

Off the ground, not in control and no card?


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			The Anfield area was left to rot for numerous years Anderson and his cronies, I'd like to know where the Â£200m was spent, because most of the new homes that have been built in and around the stadium certainly aren't social housing.

Backhanders aots.
		
Click to expand...

I was at anfield two weeks ago. There is no way Â£200m has been spent there. Not possible. I know the area around Goodison is not great so this isn't a pop. It just looked run down still.

To be fair to the council they passed the Stanley park development for Liverpool, you just chose not to go with it due to dodgy owners.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 13, 2017)

Do Everton own Goodison Park outright? If they do, is there the opportunity for the club to say if the council build them a new stadium then Everton will give the council Goodison Park for them to build houses on?


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			The Club owned most of the houses that were left to rot as part of its expansion plan.
Part of the proposed 200 mil included areas around the ground concourse and club shop didn't it?
		
Click to expand...

The houses behind the main stand you're right the club did own them but the council let them run those streets into the ground. There were  plenty more that the council left to rot behind the park pub  going up as far as breckfield rd north.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 13, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Do Everton own Goodison Park outright? If they do, is there the opportunity for the club to say if the council build them a new stadium then Everton will give the council Goodison Park for them to build houses on?
		
Click to expand...

Have you been to Goodison? My grandparents used to live nearby. You won't get much for land there. Not a great deal for the council to be fair.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 13, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Do Everton own Goodison Park outright? If they do, is there the opportunity for the club to say if the council build them a new stadium then Everton will give the council Goodison Park for them to build houses on?
		
Click to expand...

We're not asking for help, as said the plans have been going on for a while, now that the Commonwealth Games has raised it's head they are looking at options and obviously if we did get the games we don't currently have a suitable stadium for athletics si it coukd be a case of the City getting a stadium for it on the cheap, also Everton would get it cheaper than going on their own, plus would benefit from supporting infrastructure, but even without the Commonwealth games, Everton are planning a new stadium.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 13, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			You know what I was just thinking how much did Chelsea pay for Hazard coz he is a steal compared to what was paid for Pogba.
		
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I'm pleased someone mentioned Pogba. I'd forgotten he was on the pitch. I'm sure he will improve next year but this year he really hasn't shown much. Disappointing.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			The houses behind the main stand you're right the club did own them but the council let them run those streets into the ground. There were  plenty more that the council left to rot behind the park pub  going up as far as breckfield rd north.
		
Click to expand...

I know in the past it was difficult to get anyone to take responsibility for the whole area and everyone blamed everyone else and the area nose dived.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 13, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm pleased someone mentioned Pogba. I'd forgotten he was on the pitch. I'm sure he will improve next year but this year he really hasn't shown much. Disappointing.
		
Click to expand...

For the price paid he should be standing out in games. 
He's looked bang average when ever I've seen him play. 
And his tackling & marking is shocking.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 13, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			I think the stadium plans are further down the line than people are really aware, the architect(Dan Meis) has already been given the gig from what I can gather.
I don't really care for the Comenwealth Games, I don't want the stadium to have any outside influences and I definitely don't want a bowl type stadium. It needs to be a purpose built stadium with Everton's needs at the top of the agenda.
		
Click to expand...

i cannot understand how you can think like that in any way shape or form. Why? Coz if you went to Citehs ground you would understand why. It is world class. That was once a commonwealth games stadium, and was bowl type. But you would never know it now. 
Again I am struggling with summat here, Evertons needs should be top of the agenda, eh the council are paying for summat, primarily a commonwealth games venue but Everton should be top of the agenda. The games will be for the people of Liverpool and the U.K. Not for Everton FC, but should they occupy the stadium after the games I am sure it will be a lot better than the stadium they have at the moment, and a hell of a lot better than that dump that West Ham occupy. I am sure lessons will have been learned from that.
everton, like City and West Ham will come out of it with a stonking deal. The only differance is that City council house is better than West hams.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 13, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			i cannot understand how you can think like that in any way shape or form. Why? Coz if you went to Citehs ground you would understand why. It is world class. That was once a commonwealth games stadium, and was bowl type. But you would never know it now. 
Again I am struggling with summat here, Evertons needs should be top of the agenda, eh the council are paying for summat, primarily a commonwealth games venue but Everton should be top of the agenda. The games will be for the people of Liverpool and the U.K. Not for Everton FC, but should they occupy the stadium after the games I am sure it will be a lot better than the stadium they have at the moment, and a hell of a lot better than that dump that West Ham occupy. I am sure lessons will have been learned from that.
everton, like City and West Ham will come out of it with a stonking deal. The only differance is that City council house is better than West hams.
		
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Issue is though mate, it's Evertons plans the council want to piggy back on to, not the other way round so it has to be a joint effort from minute one.


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## The Evertonian (Mar 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			The Club owned most of the houses that were left to rot as part of its expansion plan.
Part of the proposed 200 mil included areas around the ground concourse and club shop didn't it?
		
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Is right!!!
It was the club who managed the decline of the area surrounding Anfield over the past 20 years. Buying up houses, leaving them empty, running down the prices of the rest of the houses in the area so they could pick them up on the cheap.

To blame Joe Anderson for the decline of Anfield is way way wide of the mark.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 13, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Have you been to Goodison? My grandparents used to live nearby. You won't get much for land there. Not a great deal for the council to be fair.
		
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pauldj42 said:



			We're not asking for help, as said the plans have been going on for a while, now that the Commonwealth Games has raised it's head they are looking at options and obviously if we did get the games we don't currently have a suitable stadium for athletics si it coukd be a case of the City getting a stadium for it on the cheap, also Everton would get it cheaper than going on their own, plus would benefit from supporting infrastructure, but even without the Commonwealth games, Everton are planning a new stadium.
		
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Nope, never been to Goodison. For some strange reason my team haven't played there in the time I've been supporting them.

I wasn't suggesting that Everton needed help. I was asking if the potential was there for the council agreeing to build them a new stadium if they could get their money back by building on the site of Goodison. I know it's a much lower level but part of the deal that took my lot to the new Weston Homes Community Stadium by the side of the A12 was that the council took over the old Layer Road ground and have since built housing on it. I don't know the area around Goodison which is why I was asking the question. There was no deliberate intention on my part to do Everton down or suggest that they needed help getting a new ground.


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## Kellfire (Mar 13, 2017)

Awful game of football.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 13, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Nope, never been to Goodison. For some strange reason my team haven't played there in the time I've been supporting them.

I wasn't suggesting that Everton needed help. I was asking if the potential was there for the council agreeing to build them a new stadium if they could get their money back by building on the site of Goodison. I know it's a much lower level but part of the deal that took my lot to the new Weston Homes Community Stadium by the side of the A12 was that the council took over the old Layer Road ground and have since built housing on it. I don't know the area around Goodison which is why I was asking the question. There was no deliberate intention on my part to do Everton down or suggest that they needed help getting a new ground.
		
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It was suggested at one stage that if Liverpool built the new stadium in Stanley Park, they'd buy Goodison to turn it into their car park :rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 13, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Awful game of football.
		
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I enjoyed it &#128556;


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## Tashyboy (Mar 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Issue is though mate, it's Evertons plans the council want to piggy back on to, not the other way round so it has to be a joint effort from minute one.
		
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If the council, and Everton piggy back one another, then it's not just the stadium that will improve but the area itself. The east lands area around City's ground was a dump of an area. The stadium at City is the icing on the cake, the training facilities are world class, housing, cycling centre. All has helped to improve and regenerate the area.


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## The Evertonian (Mar 13, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			i cannot understand how you can think like that in any way shape or form. Why? Coz if you went to Citehs ground you would understand why. It is world class. That was once a commonwealth games stadium, and was bowl type. But you would never know it now. 
Again I am struggling with summat here, Evertons needs should be top of the agenda, eh the council are paying for summat, primarily a commonwealth games venue but Everton should be top of the agenda. The games will be for the people of Liverpool and the U.K. Not for Everton FC, but should they occupy the stadium after the games I am sure it will be a lot better than the stadium they have at the moment, and a hell of a lot better than that dump that West Ham occupy. I am sure lessons will have been learned from that.
everton, like City and West Ham will come out of it with a stonking deal. The only differance is that City council house is better than West hams.
		
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I want the club to build its own stadium...I don't care about the Commonwealth Games.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 13, 2017)

I never took your question as a criticism, don't worry. Unfortunately Goodison is in quite a run down area, it's no Highbury that's for sure.

Interesting to hear those more in the know suggest how advanced Everton may be already. That's good to hear. Five years would be a long time to wait.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			Is right!!!
It was the club who managed the decline of the area surrounding Anfield over the past 20 years. Buying up houses, leaving them empty, running down the prices of the rest of the houses in the area so they could pick them up on the cheap.

To blame Joe Anderson for the decline of Anfield is way way wide of the mark.
		
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You're right LFC did leave those streets around the main stand to rot but over the last 20yrs none of the council leaders were proactive in any regeneration  in that area and that includes Anderson. Those streets (waverley rd??)behind the Park pub right Upto breckfield rd north/robson street were left by the council.


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## Fish (Mar 13, 2017)

Chelsea Vs Spurs

Arsenal Vs City


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			You're right LFC did leave those streets around the main stand to rot but over the last 20yrs none of the council leaders were proactive in any regeneration  in that area and that includes Anderson. Those streets (waverley rd??)behind the Park pub right Upto breckfield rd north/robson street were left by the council.
		
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Like I said nobody came out of it looking good. :thup:


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## huds1475 (Mar 13, 2017)

Only one result after the sending off. After that, the best team won. 

10 men showing signs of fatigue never going to be a match for Chelsea.

Enjoyed watching Rojo. Thought he was immense and and made Costa look pathetic - Kante is the 'Guvnor' for Chelsea.

Pogba an easy target for cheap shots. Not the only one who was dead on his feet.


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## The Evertonian (Mar 13, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I never took your question as a criticism, don't worry. Unfortunately Goodison is in quite a run down area, it's no Highbury that's for sure.

Interesting to hear those more in the know suggest how advanced Everton may be already. That's good to hear. Five years would be a long time to wait.
		
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Theres a lot of beaurocracy still to get through I think mate, lots of planning. I don't know how long that's all going to take but the rumours are it would be a two year timetable to build the stadium from the first spade in the ground to completion.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 13, 2017)

Al take that semi final draw


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## Slime (Mar 13, 2017)

Just calming down a bit.
Chelsea sure gave United a lesson in how to see out a football match.
Kante ................ what a player, especially when Pogba had a shocker.
Rojo was immense. Costa is a skip rat.
De Gea was superb, as usual, but Hazard was pathetic.
A niaive tackle by Hererra because everyone knows that Hazard is expert at getting players carded but it was never a bookable.
Hazard ruined the game, which is a shame as he's such a superb player.

The better team won, I have no problem with that.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Like I said nobody came out of it looking good. :thup:
		
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Correct, whilst LFC were doing what they were doing, Liverpool city council leaders were standing by watching and allowing their areas to fall into the state it got to without a peep from Warren Bradley, Joe Anderson etc.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 13, 2017)

Thought a couple of the tackles by the utd players with both feet off the ground were straight reds.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 13, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I never took your question as a criticism, don't worry. Unfortunately Goodison is in quite a run down area, it's no Highbury that's for sure.

Interesting to hear those more in the know suggest how advanced Everton may be already. That's good to hear. Five years would be a long time to wait.
		
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The main problem is the infrastructure it's just not there .
Lime st is the other side of the city 
but when they built the arena it's fantastic so it shows it can be done.
I hope it goes ahead but the roads and rail will need real investment as most of the roads in Liverpool are shocking.


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## The Evertonian (Mar 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			You're right LFC did leave those streets around the main stand to rot but over the last 20yrs none of the council leaders were proactive in any regeneration  in that area and that includes Anderson. Those streets (waverley rd??)behind the Park pub right Upto breckfield rd north/robson street were left by the council.
		
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But the whole area had been waiting on Liverpool FC for years to decide what they were going to do. Whether that be a ground move or a rebuild of Anfield.

Dont forget, when Liverpool planned to build on Stanley Park the council gave there backing. When Everton enquired about building on Walton Hall Park they were met with short shrift by the council, something to do with green space being used apparently. The last time I looked Stanley Park was definitely green and space.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 13, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			The main problem is the infrastructure it's just not there .
Lime st is the other side of the city 
but when they built the arena it's fantastic so it shows it can be done.
I hope it goes ahead but the roads and rail will need real investment as most of the roads in Liverpool are shocking.
		
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The Kings Dock is just over a mile from Lime St, Goodison is 2.5 miles, surely that's a positive?


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 13, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Thought a couple of the tackles by the utd players with both feet off the ground were straight reds.
		
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Stamp by Rojo was a bit naughty.
Herrara is a central midfield player he has to make these challenges was a really soft yellow and red especially with some of the tackles in the second half.

Thought Utd defended well but Ibrahimovic being missing cost them they had no presence up front .

But once again it's all about the Refferee.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 13, 2017)

huds1475 said:



			Only one result after the sending off. After that, the best team won. 

10 men showing signs of fatigue never going to be a match for Chelsea.

Enjoyed watching Rojo. Thought he was immense and and made Costa look pathetic - Kante is the 'Guvnor' for Chelsea.

Pogba an easy target for cheap shots. Not the only one who was dead on his feet.
		
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I wasn't only criticising Pogba for today,he's looked pretty average in a lot of games. 
Due to the huge price tag I think it's inevitable that he's going to be scrutinised.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 13, 2017)

Fish said:



			Chelsea Vs Spurs

Arsenal Vs City
		
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That's City in the final.


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## The Evertonian (Mar 13, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			The main problem is the infrastructure it's just not there .
Lime st is the other side of the city 
but when they built the arena it's fantastic so it shows it can be done.
I hope it goes ahead but the roads and rail will need real investment as most of the roads in Liverpool are shocking.
		
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There is a disused underground railway station around 8-10 mins walk from BM dock which could be brought back in to service and I've heard rumours of trams being used to and from the city centre.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 13, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			That's City in the final.
		
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Would of prefered Lincoln to make it a tight game.


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## The Evertonian (Mar 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			The Kings Dock is just over a mile from Lime St, Goodison is 2.5 miles, surely that's a positive?
		
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The Kings Dock is adjacent to the Albert Dock in a very central location. They built the arena on it and the whole area has seen massive regeneration. But I don't understand, what has that got to do with Goodison?


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 13, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			But once again it's all about the Refferee.
		
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Don't really see what the ref could have done differently.Herrera was blatant with his first yellow, and stupid with his second. The ref could easily have carded Youngs, Valencia or any number of Utd players for man handling the ref, or dissent. Hazard and Costa have always been better than Tom Daley, but then Maureen never complained when he was their manager.....
Overall Utd were poor, and didn't deserve anything out of the game.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			The Kings Dock is just over a mile from Lime St, Goodison is 2.5 miles, surely that's a positive?
		
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I know I live here but look what's in the way 
Major city centre.

Do you think they could put an underground rail link to the dock. 

 Dought so it's overland unless all trains were through Central station, I know it's not far but it's very awkward.

on the other side is the Mersey so most traffic comes from Scotland road or from city centre./ Jamacia st.

I remember away games and walked to the grounds from main railway station.

Dont get me wrong it will be great for Everton and the city but I just think it's in the wrong place, but in a major city where is the right place.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 13, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			The Kings Dock is adjacent to the Albert Dock in a very central location. They built the arena on it and the whole area has seen massive regeneration. But I don't understand, what has that got to do with Goodison?
		
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Ignore me, meant distance from BM to Goodison, not Kings!


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 13, 2017)




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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 13, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			I know I live here but look what's in the way 
Tunnel entrances x2 
Major city centre.

Do you think they could put an underground rail link to the dock. 

 Dought it as the tunnels would be in the way so it's overland unless all trains were through Central station then down Southport line I know it's not far but it's very awkward.

on the other side is the Mersey so most traffic comes from Scotland road or from city centre.

I remember away games and walked to the grounds from main railway station.

Dont get me wrong it will be great for Everton and the city but I just think it's in the wrong place, but in a major city where is the right place.
		
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Surely they'd bring the football traffic off the end of the M57 then via seaforth and straight in, agreed it would be a nightmare for Police for those coming into Lime Street by train.


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## The Evertonian (Mar 13, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			I know I live here but look what's in the way 
Tunnel entrances x2 
Major city centre.

Do you think they could put an underground rail link to the dock. 

 Dought it as the tunnels would be in the way so it's overland unless all trains were through Central station then down Southport line I know it's not far but it's very awkward.

on the other side is the Mersey so most traffic comes from Scotland road or from city centre.

I remember away games and walked to the grounds from main railway station.

Dont get me wrong it will be great for Everton and the city but I just think it's in the wrong place, but in a major city where is the right place.
		
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Well from a Blues point of view I think it's in the perfect location 'The Banks of the Royal Blue Mersey'. If, between Everton, the council and Peel holdings they can get their act together it could be the major regeneration that part of Town has needed for decades.


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## huds1475 (Mar 13, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			I wasn't only criticising Pogba for today,he's looked pretty average in a lot of games. 
Due to the huge price tag I think it's inevitable that he's going to be scrutinised.
		
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General comment, not directed at you. 

Agree with your second statment.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 13, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			Well from a Blues point of view I think it's in the perfect location 'The Banks of the Royal Blue Mersey'. If, between Everton, the council and Peel holdings they can get their act together it could be the major regeneration that part of Town has needed for decades.
		
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The Royal Blue Mersey would you fancy a little swim in it.!


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## sawtooth (Mar 13, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			That's City in the final.
		
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Yeah and Chelsea. Money matters.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 13, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah and Chelsea. Money matters.
		
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So how did Lincoln and Millwall get to the quarter-finals then? Do they have more money than Liverpool or the other PL clubs or Championship clubs that didn't get there? Time to let go of the money excuse. Arsenal have got over Â£200 million in cash in the bank. Their refusal to spend it is the problem not the fact that others have got more than them.

(P.S. This wasn't a dig at Liverpool, they were just the biggest club I could think of that weren't in the quarter finals this year)


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## The Evertonian (Mar 13, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			The Royal Blue Mersey would you fancy a little swim in it.!
		
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No way JosÃ¨....its....errr, far too cold


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## sawtooth (Mar 14, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			So how did Lincoln and Millwall get to the quarter-finals then? Do they have more money than Liverpool or the other PL clubs or Championship clubs that didn't get there? Time to let go of the money excuse. Arsenal have got over Â£200 million in cash in the bank. Their refusal to spend it is the problem not the fact that others have got more than them.

(P.S. This wasn't a dig at Liverpool, they were just the biggest club I could think of that weren't in the quarter finals this year)
		
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Last 4 has the two mega rich clubs,. It would have been 1234 in terms of finances had United not drawn Chelsea.

Maybe you're right, Arsenal should pay Sanchez and Ozil Â£300K a week each to keep those players and then add a few more like them?

Or not cave in to their obscene money demands? Why is Â£180K a week not good enough? Who can't live on that ?

No sorry I don't think we should spend money recklessly.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 14, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



*But the whole area had been waiting on Liverpool FC for years to decide what they were going to do. Whether that be a ground move or a rebuild of Anfield.*

Dont forget, when Liverpool planned to build on Stanley Park the council gave there backing. When Everton enquired about building on Walton Hall Park they were met with short shrift by the council, something to do with green space being used apparently. The last time I looked Stanley Park was definitely green and space.
		
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This is my point, Previous leaders Inc Joe Anderson have managed the decline of that area by standing still and waiting for a multi million pound company to decide on what they want to do to suit themselves. This wasn't/isnt acceptable behaviour  from council leaders in my view.

The council had allowed themselves to be held to ransom by LFC. Again for the people of that area this wasn't right.

As for Stanley park v Wally hall park debate, correct me if I'm wrong,  the plans for the new stadium in Stanley park would've lost a 1/3rd of the park as opposed to the whole of Wally hall park going. Also there was a massive rejection from local residents and users of Wally hall park too.


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## Hobbit (Mar 14, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Last 4 has the two mega rich clubs,. It would have been 1234 in terms of finances had United not drawn Chelsea.

Maybe you're right, Arsenal should pay Sanchez and Ozil Â£300K a week each to keep those players and then add a few more like them?

Or not cave in to their obscene money demands? Why is Â£180K a week not good enough? Who can't live on that ?

No sorry I don't think we should spend money recklessly.
		
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In my opinion, every club in the Prem is already paying obscene wages. Who can't live on Â£8k a week, never mind Â£180k?


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## user2010 (Mar 14, 2017)

Rojo should be looking at a 5 game ban for that deliberate stamp shouldn`t he?


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## user2010 (Mar 14, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			This is shocking 

https://twitter.com/sporf/status/841028790511894529

Will never ever understand how people can react with their fists like that. Lack of Brain cells the closest answer
		
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`Twas a great punch though.:thup:


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 14, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Last 4 has the two mega rich clubs,. It would have been 1234 in terms of finances had United not drawn Chelsea.

Maybe you're right, Arsenal should pay Sanchez and Ozil Â£300K a week each to keep those players and then add a few more like them?

Or not cave in to their obscene money demands? Why is Â£180K a week not good enough? Who can't live on that ?

No sorry I don't think we should spend money recklessly.
		
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This season your wage bill is just over Â£200 million. That is about Â£25 million less than man city and Â£20 million less than than man utd and Chelsea. So basically the difference is two players earning Â£200k per week. And surely it would only be spending recklessly if you didn't have the money to spend and it was jeopardising the future of the club. Once again, you've got over Â£200 million in the bank. Stop using money as an excuse. It's like you've been brainwashed not to accept any criticism of Arsenal or Arsene and to believe that top 4 in the PL and last 16 in the CL is a fantastic achievement. Don't get me wrong, it's a good achievement but it's as though a lot of Arsenal fans have lost all their ambition.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 14, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			This is my point, Previous leaders Inc Joe Anderson have managed the decline of that area by standing still and waiting for a multi million pound company to decide on what they want to do to suit themselves. This wasn't/isnt acceptable behaviour  from council leaders in my view.

The council had allowed themselves to be held to ransom by LFC. Again for the people of that area this wasn't right.

As for Stanley park v Wally hall park debate, correct me if I'm wrong,  the plans for the new stadium in Stanley park would've lost a 1/3rd of the park as opposed to the whole of Wally hall park going. Also there was a massive rejection from local residents and users of Wally hall park too.
		
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Wasn't there a plan for Switch Island at the end of the motorways what happened there I thought it was a good site.
Out of the City was mooted is that true?


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## Kellfire (Mar 14, 2017)

Now that the dust has settled, here are my views on last night...

Neither were yellow cards on Herrera. The first was maybe just a foul even though Hazard plays for it, but the second is a dive.

But when Herrera walked Jose bottled it by taking off Mkhitaryan and bringing on Fellaini. The correct call at that stage, if anyone had to come on, was Mata. Some who can slow it down, keep possession and not panic. 

Poor management last night from Mourinho, from the overly defensive starting line-up (6-3-1) to that sub and then not to change it much earlier in the game.

Better team won.

ps. Kante scuffed the shot for the goal.


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## Junior (Mar 14, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Now that the dust has settled, here are my views on last night...

Neither were yellow cards on Herrera. The first was maybe just a foul even though Hazard plays for it, but the second is a dive.

But when Herrera walked Jose bottled it by taking off Mkhitaryan and bringing on Fellaini. The correct call at that stage, if anyone had to come on, was Mata. Some who can slow it down, keep possession and not panic. 

Poor management last night from Mourinho, from the overly defensive starting line-up (6-3-1) to that sub and then not to change it much earlier in the game.

Better team won.

ps. Kante scuffed the shot for the goal.
		
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Agree re Mata.  IMO It was huge mistake not playing Mata from the start.  By far and away our best 'footballer' this season.  Especially with Rashford up front, he is the one player who could find the pass.  Pogba should have been on the bench. 

Herrera should not have gone when he did, the first was definitely not a yellow.  The 2nd was clumsy and Hazard was always going down easy.  Without my red tinted glasses on, it was a matter of time before he was sent off for persistent fouling......as all the Chelsea players kept pointing out to the referee.     

Rojo had a great game, but spoilt it with the stamp.  if that's looked at he's going ot get banned.


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## The Evertonian (Mar 14, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			This is my point, Previous leaders Inc Joe Anderson have managed the decline of that area by standing still and waiting for a multi million pound company to decide on what they want to do to suit themselves. This wasn't/isnt acceptable behaviour  from council leaders in my view.

The council had allowed themselves to be held to ransom by LFC. Again for the people of that area this wasn't right.

As for Stanley park v Wally hall park debate, correct me if I'm wrong,  the plans for the new stadium in Stanley park would've lost a 1/3rd of the park as opposed to the whole of Wally hall park going. Also there was a massive rejection from local residents and users of Wally hall park too.
		
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I agree the council were held to ransom by LFC, shame on them and on LFC.
But that was my point; the council have bent over backwards to please LFC. 

I think the least the council can can do is look for infrastructure solutions for EFC to be able to build a modern football stadium in the heart of the city. 

At the end of the day a football club is about its local community, that is where all clubs have risen from.

As for Walton Hall Park, personally I'm glad it got knocked back, but it weren't just a stadium taking up the park. There were also going to be housing and commercial ventures on the site.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 14, 2017)

Fish said:



			On a more sombre note, it is the 40th anniversary this month of the tragic death of one of the clubâ€™s immortals from that FA Cup-winning night, Peter Houseman.

The Bluesâ€™ former winger and his wife Sally were killed by a reckless driver in a road accident on 20 March 1977. Their sons are guests of the club at Mondayâ€™s game.
		
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Fair play to the United supporters in The Shed at half time who treated them very respectfully. :thup:


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## Stuart_C (Mar 14, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			I agree the council were held to ransom by LFC, shame on them and on LFC.
But that was my point; the council have bent over backwards to please LFC. 

I think the least the council can can do is look for infrastructure solutions for EFC to be able tqo build a modern football stadium in the heart of the city. 




			They are doing which I have no problem with, indirectly funding a stadium is what I'd be against for both clubs.
		
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At the end of the day a football club is about its local community, that is where all clubs have risen from.




			Those days are long gone, they only care about the P&L sheets, although I know Everton do a hell of a lot more community work than Liverpool do.
		
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As for Walton Hall Park, personally I'm glad it got knocked back, but it weren't just a stadium taking up the park. There were also going to be housing and commercial ventures on the site.
		
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 I thought it was more than just a section of the park that would've been lost.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 14, 2017)

Junior said:



			Agree re Mata.  IMO It was huge mistake not playing Mata from the start.  By far and away our best 'footballer' this season.  Especially with Rashford up front, he is the one player who could find the pass.  Pogba should have been on the bench. 

Herrera should not have gone when he did, the first was definitely not a yellow.  The 2nd was clumsy and Hazard was always going down easy.  Without my red tinted glasses on, it was a matter of time before he was sent off for persistent fouling......as all the Chelsea players kept pointing out to the referee.     

Rojo had a great game, but spoilt it with the stamp.  if that's looked at he's going ot get banned.
		
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Would be interesting to hear a refs view of Herreras first yellow ,he had both feet on the floor arms by his side he did lean in with his shoulder to protect himself imo ,but what is he supposed to do if Hazard runs right into him.
Lucas got booked for exactly the same thing last week.

any Refs on here shine a light on that.


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## The Evertonian (Mar 14, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Wasn't there a plan for Switch Island at the end of the motorways what happened there I thought it was a good site.
Out of the City was mooted is that true?
		
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Why would we want to move out of the City?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Would be interesting to hear a refs view of Herreras first yellow ,he had both feet on the floor arms by his side he did lean in with his shoulder to protect himself imo ,but what is he supposed to do if Hazard runs right into him.
Lucas got booked for exactly the same thing last week.

any Refs on here shine a light on that.
		
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It's interpretation though, I thought the first one was a stonewall booking, Hazard had the ball and Herrera stepped across him and made no attempt to avoid Hazard or get out the way and then tries to blame Hazard, the second booking was a joke though imo.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			Why would we want to move out of the City?
		
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Hasn't that been part of the issue, Kirby looked good at one stage, but was 1/2 mile outside the City limit, we've had 3 or 4 false dawns so hopefully this one will go through!


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 14, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			Why would we want to move out of the City?
		
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Never said you would .
Out of the city is why it never happened is what I meant.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 14, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			It's interpretation though, I thought the first one was a stonewall booking, Hazard had the ball and Herrera stepped across him and made no attempt to avoid Hazard or get out the way and then tries to blame Hazard, the second booking was a joke though imo.
		
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He didn't step across him though he had both feet planted and just stood still.
He leaned in with his shoulder .
why does he have to get out of the way.
Hazard should go round him not through him.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			He didn't step across him though he had both feet planted and just stood still.
He leaned in with his shoulder .
why does he have to get out of the way.
Hazard should go round him not through him.
		
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If Herrera leaned in to him, there's the issue, regardless of his feet Herrera obstructed Hazard.

It's all about opinions, to me Herrera tried to be clever and failed.


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## Fish (Mar 14, 2017)

Romelu Lukaku tells Everton he will not sign a new contract


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## Kellfire (Mar 14, 2017)

Rojo got away with that stamp.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2017)

Fish said:



			Romelu Lukaku tells Everton he will not sign a new contract 

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Fair enough, he's always stated his ambition to play CL and we're not at that level yet, hope we get a nice pay day off him, still has 2 years on current contract so will wait and see what offers come in and who from.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Rojo got away with that stamp.
		
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Ref said he saw it and dealt with it.


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## Slime (Mar 14, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Ref said he saw it and dealt with it.
		
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Maybe it wasn't a deliberate stamp after all.
I've just seen it again, it looks deliberate to me ............... however it didn't look to have any force to it, almost as if he was suddenly trying to pull out of the stamp.
The thing for me is that if it was a proper stamp Hazard would still be rolling about and squealing like a pig. In fact there was remarkably little in the way of a reaction from Hazard.
I think Rojo pulled out at the last second and barely touched Hazard.
Just saying .................. and I'm trying sooooooooo hard not to be too biased!!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2017)

Slime said:



			Maybe it wasn't a deliberate stamp after all.
I've just seen it again, it looks deliberate to me ............... however it didn't look to have any force to it, almost as if he was suddenly trying to pull out of the stamp.
The thing for me is that if it was a proper stamp Hazard would still be rolling about and squealing like a pig. In fact there was remarkably little in the way of a reaction from Hazard.
I think Rojo pulled out at the last second and barely touched Hazaed.
Just saying .................. and I'm trying sooooooooo hard not to be too biased!!
		
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It's one of them things that seeing in slow motion or from 10 diferent angles you can pretty much make your mind up, Ref gets one look, says he's seen and dealt with it, end of discussion, bit like Herrera's 2nd yellow, Ref's decision, move on, some you win, some you lose.

Rojo should have a 3 match ban and Herrera available for the next game.


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## sawtooth (Mar 14, 2017)

Stuck a tenner on Sevilla halftime/fulltime 3/1 for added interest.

They are a very good side and I think 2-1 flattered Leicester a bit first leg.


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## The Evertonian (Mar 14, 2017)

Fish said:



			Romelu Lukaku tells Everton he will not sign a new contract 

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My gut feeling is he's off to Chelsea in the summer.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 14, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			My gut feeling is he's off to Chelsea in the summer.
		
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Can't see it.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 14, 2017)

Havin an early night tonight. Off to Monaco tomorrow morning from Manchester airport, flying at 8.30. So do your best to keep the noise down on here please,


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 14, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			My gut feeling is he's off to Chelsea in the summer.
		
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As long as we squeeze the pips I don't mind where he goes. We can't expect to keep him with the record he has and the position we are in. He owes us nothing. 2 years left on his deal should mean a decent payday for Everton


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 14, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			If Herrera leaned in to him, there's the issue, regardless of his feet Herrera obstructed Hazard.

It's all about opinions, to me Herrera tried to be clever and failed.
		
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Sorry can't agree obstruction has gone out of the game just watch a fullback letting the ball go out for a goal kick.
Hazard ran into Herrera to be obstruction you have to move to block his path but he just stood still.
He dipped his shoulder to protect himself.
just my opinion


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## The Evertonian (Mar 14, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			As long as we squeeze the pips I don't mind where he goes. We can't expect to keep him with the record he has and the position we are in. He owes us nothing. 2 years left on his deal should mean a decent payday for Everton
		
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I agree 100% LT. But the problem is, we as a club are in a weak position to 'parley' now that the world and his wife know that Lukaku is not gonna sign another contract with us. We may struggle to squeeze a little bit of juice let alone the pips.

I would prefer him to go abroad, but I just get the feeling he's Costas replacement for next season.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sorry can't agree obstruction has gone out of the game just watch a fullback letting the ball go out for a goal kick.
Hazard ran into Herrera to be obstruction you have to move to block his path but he just stood still.
He dipped his shoulder to protect himself.
just my opinion
		
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As a former Referee my biggest gripe was knowing that a full back had no intention of playing the ball and protecting it to let it go out for a goal kick, however, under the laws of the game they are allowed to do that so long as the ball is within playing distance, Herrera didn't have control of the ball and is therefore obstructing Hazard who did have the ball and that's the difference.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			I agree 100% LT. But the problem is, we as a club are in a weak position to 'parley' now that the world and his wife know that Lukaku is not gonna sign another contract with us. We may struggle to squeeze a little bit of juice let alone the pips.

I would prefer him to go abroad, but I just get the feeling he's Costas replacement for next season.
		
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Twitter is great fun tonight, Chelsea fans seem 50/50 split on having him back, Utd and Arsenal fans seem the most keen to have him, :rofl:


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 14, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			As a former Referee my biggest gripe was knowing that a full back had no intention of playing the ball and protecting it to let it go out for a goal kick, however, under the laws of the game they are allowed to do that so long as the ball is within playing distance, Herrera didn't have control of the ball and is therefore obstructing Hazard who did have the ball and that's the difference.
		
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So if you stand still and someone runs straight into you it's a foul.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			So if you stand still and someone runs straight into you it's a foul.
		
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He didn't stand still, he dropped his shoulder into him, ie, moved towards him, blocking him!


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 14, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			He didn't stand still, he dropped his shoulder into him, ie, moved towards him, blocking him!
		
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Sorry but I just don't agree.
Thats football opinions , but only the refs count!,,


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 14, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			My gut feeling is he's off to Chelsea in the summer.
		
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How are teams like Everton ever going to get back to former glory if every time they get a decent squad the "stars "want to leave.
Its sad really that only money talks and that's what CL is about Money.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sorry but I just don't agree.
Thats football opinions , but only the refs count!,,
		
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Agree it's only one opinion that counts, although we know they make mistakes 

You said yourself Herrera dipped his shoulder to protect himself, how is the Ref meant to know if his intention is to protect or block, all he will see is Herrera make a move towards Hazard as Hazard is moving towards the penalty area.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 14, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			I agree 100% LT. But the problem is, we as a club are in a weak position to 'parley' now that the world and his wife know that Lukaku is not gonna sign another contract with us. We may struggle to squeeze a little bit of juice let alone the pips.

I would prefer him to go abroad, but I just get the feeling he's Costas replacement for next season.
		
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I wonder if those 50% that don't want him will change their mind sharpish once he starts banging in the goals. I think he's a powerful forward, almost old school, and gets goals. Are Everton really in that bad a position that can't keep negotiations going and a deal be found


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			How are teams like Everton ever going to get back to former glory if every time they get a decent squad the "stars "want to leave.
Its sad really that only money talks and that's what CL is about Money.
		
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You could ask the same question to a few clubs, Lukaku has always stated his desire to play CL, it must be even more confusing for you's when your "stars" do it.

Money talks though.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I wonder if those 50% that don't want him will change their mind sharpish once he starts banging in the goals. I think he's a powerful forward, almost old school, and gets goals. Are Everton really in that bad a position that can't keep negotiations going and a deal be found
		
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Could be a bluff, his agent said it was a 99.999% done deal only 2 weeks ago.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 14, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Could be a bluff, his agent said it was a 99.999% done deal only 2 weeks ago.
		
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Sky Sports discussing this at half time and Cottee seems to think it's the start of a "game" between player, agent and club. Seems a very sad and childish way of conducting business negotiations but seems the norm in football these days


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 14, 2017)

Have to say, why haven't Leicester played like this all season. That's the spirit, shape and determination they showed last year and has been lacking costing Ranieri his job. I think the players need to have a long look in the mirror. That said it's fantastic that they are winning and on the way to the quarter finals


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 14, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			I agree 100% LT. But the problem is, we as a club are in a weak position to 'parley' now that the world and his wife know that Lukaku is not gonna sign another contract with us. We may struggle to squeeze a little bit of juice let alone the pips.

I would prefer him to go abroad, but I just get the feeling he's Costas replacement for next season.
		
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The good news is there are two years left on his current deal. One year and we are in trouble, look at arsenal over the years, but two years gives us leverage still. Ideally we would sell him to a Chinese club for silly money. 

Either way, if Pogba is worth Â£80m then Lukaku must be touching Â£100m ðŸ˜. Ha ha.

If he does go then it will be a good test for Steve Walsh's little black book.


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## fundy (Mar 14, 2017)

stupid from Nasri, embarrassing from Vardy, relief Leicester probably needed too


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 14, 2017)

fundy said:



			stupid from Nasri, embarrassing from Vardy, relief Leicester probably needed too
		
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Thought ref got it right. Booking each but just happens to be Nasri's second yellow


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## The Evertonian (Mar 14, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			How are teams like Everton ever going to get back to former glory if every time they get a decent squad the "stars "want to leave.
Its sad really that only money talks and that's what CL is about Money.
		
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I'd like to see Everton build in the same manner Spurs have.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2017)

Congratulations to Leicester, great performance and fully deserved.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 14, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Congratulations to Leicester, great performance and fully deserved.
		
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Great effort thanks in no small part to Schmeichal


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## fundy (Mar 14, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Thought ref got it right. Booking each but just happens to be Nasri's second yellow
		
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didnt say the ref didnt get it right, doesnt stop Vardys reaction being embarrassing


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## sawtooth (Mar 14, 2017)

Yep got to hand it to Leicester a great win against quality opposition. Of course Nasri made it a bit easier for Leicester by getting himself sent off plus the cheating antics of Vardy was on display again. But overall a much deserved win and its starting to look the same Leicester team as last year.

Its baffling why didn't they play like this when Ranieri was in charge.


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## The Evertonian (Mar 14, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Congratulations to Leicester, great performance and fully deserved.
		
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Yep, fully deserved. Although I must admit, Vardy gets right on my 'threepenny-bits'. He's the modern day Robbie Savage, with his snidey antics.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			Yep, fully deserved. Although I must admit, Vardy gets right on my 'threepenny-bits'. He's the modern day Robbie Savage, with his snidey antics.
		
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Defo, if it had been the other way round the media would be slagging off the foreigner!


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 14, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			You could ask the same question to a few clubs, Lukaku has always stated his desire to play CL, it must be even more confusing for you's when your "stars" do it.

Money talks though.
		
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Totally agree I would put Liverpool in this category.
so only way is big money investor
Thats sad.


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## Fish (Mar 14, 2017)

Well done Chelsea Youth beating Spurs at the Lane 2-1 in the first leg of the FA Youth Cup semifinal &#128077;&#128526;


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## anotherdouble (Mar 15, 2017)

Fish said:



			Well done Chelsea Youth beating Spurs at the Lane 2-1 in the first leg of the FA Youth Cup semifinal &#128077;&#128526;
		
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Should have been 3-1 but had a late pen saved


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 15, 2017)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ly-turning-TV-tries-watch-EURO-2016-game.html

This is brilliant &#128514;&#128514;


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## Slime (Mar 15, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ly-turning-TV-tries-watch-EURO-2016-game.html

This is brilliant &#62978;&#62978;
		
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Does that make him passionate or just mental?


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 15, 2017)

Slime said:



			Does that make him passionate or just mental?
		
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Maybe a bit of both?


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## sawtooth (Mar 15, 2017)

Fancy Monaco tonight which probably means City will qualify.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 15, 2017)

City sneaking ahead at the moment on aggregate but another Monaco goal now makes it really hard. Not sure I can see City holding out


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 15, 2017)

City exit the CL. Not a great opening season for Pep. Will he get more time as I can't see the board being happy on the return for their outlay


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## GG26 (Mar 15, 2017)

Who would have thought it, Leicester City our last team left in the Champions League.  Last night at the King Power was an experience that I'll not forget.  The atmosphere was up a notch even from last season.  Just hope my ten year old appreciates what he has seen for the last three seasons.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 15, 2017)

GG26 said:



			Who would have thought it, Leicester City our last team left in the Champions League.  Last night at the King Power was an experience that I'll not forget.  The atmosphere was up a notch even from last season.  Just hope my ten year old appreciates what he has seen for the last three seasons.
		
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What odds would you have got on Leicester being last team standing! Who do you want next?


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 15, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			What odds would you have got on Leicester being last team standing!
		
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Back in August these were the odds from Ladbrokes on which English club would go fursthest in the Champions League....

Man City    5/4
Arsenal       10/3
Tottenham  10/3
Leicester   4/1


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## GG26 (Mar 15, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			What odds would you have got on Leicester being last team standing! Who do you want next?
		
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Anyone other than Athletico Madrid.  Real Madrid would be nice.


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## The Evertonian (Mar 15, 2017)

I only caught the 2nd half tonight, you couldn't question City's endeavour tonight but their quality on the ball, or lack of, is what let them down tonight. Sterling in particular was awful and didn't look a Â£50 player let alone a Â£50M player.

Homer, I think Pep will and rightly so, get another season to sort out City.


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## sawtooth (Mar 15, 2017)

Monaco are a great side and it's no disgrace to go out to them.

With that said Arsenal got a lot of stick losing to Monaco (and Spurs) and if that was Wenger tonight instead of Pep he would have been slaughtered.

Just goes to show with all the money in the world and supposedly the best manager City still went out in last 16.

Glad they did though as I won a little on Monaco.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 15, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			Homer, I think Pep will and rightly so, get another season to sort out City.
		
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Wasn't calling for his head, just putting the question out there. I think he'll need another season to get rid and bring in his own players. I think the PL title would be a requisite next season


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## The Evertonian (Mar 15, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Wasn't calling for his head, just putting the question out there. I think he'll need another season to get rid and bring in his own players. I think the PL title would be a requisite next season
		
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I didn't take it that you were calling for his head. I took it as you were just putting the question out there...I just answered your question with my opinion.


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## Fish (Mar 16, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Monaco are a great side and it's no disgrace to go out to them.

With that said Arsenal got a lot of stick losing to Monaco (and Spurs) and if that was Wenger tonight instead of Pep he would have been slaughtered..
		
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And rightly so imo, you can't compare someone who has been at the helm for decades and should have built and have a settled team/squad and someone who has inherited a team and been in PL 5mins.  

If they go out next season in similar circumstances then he'll be criticised and his job will be on line, and rightly so for a high profile manager with his own team/squad of no doubt quality players that he will bring in by then. 

I bet on Monaco as soon as the draw was known, I couldn't see City winning there, they don't look or feel like a team playing for each at the minute.

 The summer will be interesting to see what Pep is allowed to bring in and who will go, then he can be rightly judged as it's his team/squad then.


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## user2010 (Mar 16, 2017)

Citeh just don`t seem to have the pedigree to handle the BIG games in Europe at this moment. At home you can`t concede 3 goals and expect to progress. Pep needs to buy a quality CB to replace sicknote Kompany in the Summer.

P.S. where`s Tashboi?


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 16, 2017)

Tashy was at the game. He might be in a casino now at this very minute &#128513;. That or one of the many dodgy Russians on the rock took offence at being described as Rammel and he is currently in big trouble in a warehouse somewhere on the Cote d'Azure &#128561;


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## Tashyboy (Mar 16, 2017)

Just got outta bed in Nice (france )Bloody frustrating game. Quirky stadium with good fans attitude. Best thing that happened last  the night was me giving me brand new shirt to a 8 yr old kid. His face looked happier tham mine.


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## Beezerk (Mar 16, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Just got outta bed in Nice (france )Bloody frustrating game. Quirky stadium with good fans attitude. Best thing that happened last  the night was me giving me brand new shirt to a 8 yr old kid. His face looked happier tham mine.
		
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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 16, 2017)

Beezerk - The lad with his shirt off is the son of my in-laws next door neighbour. He still plays golf at Alnmouth Village GC, good player as well. He was a minor celeb in Alnmouth and Alnwick for a spell but then decided the fuss was not that positive after all. He keeps his shirt on now. Incidentally, I can confirm the wobble is all beer. A ferocious drinker.

Tashy, if you have the time have a stroll around the flower market. Lovely part of Nice. A wander along he prom is an obvious one as well.


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## Beezerk (Mar 16, 2017)

Boro manager on his toes again by the sounds of it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 16, 2017)

Hearing Boro fans on here and on the radio it is probably for the best. They may have a chance now. At least a new guy might go for it.


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## Liverbirdie (Mar 16, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Just got outta bed in Nice (france )Bloody frustrating game. Quirky stadium with good fans attitude. Best thing that happened last  the night was me giving me brand new shirt to a 8 yr old kid. His face looked happier tham mine.
		
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Did they have an ale ban on in Monaco - they did when we went in 2005 - even the supermarkets had to stop sales.

We did find somewhere though, and only about 300 yards away from a police station.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 16, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Beezerk - The lad with his shirt off is the son of my in-laws next door neighbour. He still plays golf at Alnmouth Village GC, good player as well. He was a minor celeb in Alnmouth and Alnwick for a spell but then decided the fuss was not that positive after all. He keeps his shirt on now. Incidentally, I can confirm the wobble is all beer. A ferocious drinker.

Tashy, if you have the time have a stroll around the flower market. Lovely part of Nice. A wander along he prom is an obvious one as well.
		
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Bloody hell LT just got back from having breakfast on the prom and a walk around flower market bought missis T some soaps. 
Yup there was a ban on beer. Except in front of casino. And hotel radisson at back of away fans end which i was told is in &#127467;&#127479; so ban dont apply. Pals i went wi were laughing coz when ifirst took shirt off to give to kid they thought i was gonna kick off. Lovely few days bar result. But apparantly its rammed with the russki mafia.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 16, 2017)

I've been to the S of France on a few holidays, May / June when it is cheaper ha ha. The other end, Port Grimaud, Antibes, St Stropez etc is lovely, highly recommended. The Nice, Cannes end is very nice but busier. Nice is a lovely place for a weekend away. 

Monaco is not for me. Oozing with money, most of it dodgy and with sinister people if you scratch only very lightly on the surface. Go for a morning to look around and then get back to one of the lovely towns in France proper. Monaco is for tax dodgers. I'd rather pay my tax and live somewhere nicer on the Cote d'Azur


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## Beezerk (Mar 16, 2017)

Spent a week in Antibes 10 or so years ago, great place. Make sure you go to the Picasso museum.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 16, 2017)

Just had another 10 mins talking to steve mcmanaman at airport after bumping into him and richard dunnne last night. He is a nice guy to talk to.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 17, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			What odds would you have got on Leicester being last team standing! *Who do you want next?*

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GG26 said:



*Anyone other than Athletico Madrid.*  Real Madrid would be nice.
		
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A jinx of Homer-esque proportions! :rofl:


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## GG26 (Mar 17, 2017)

Blue in Munich said:



			A jinx of Homer-esque proportions! :rofl:
		
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i just knew it!  Maybe we'll have to beat four Spanish teams to win it.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 17, 2017)

Some cracking ties in the CL to look forward to. 
Real v Bayern the pick of the bunch for me.


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## NWJocko (Mar 17, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Some cracking ties in the CL to look forward to. 
Real v Bayern the pick of the bunch for me.
		
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To me this is where the Champions League has diluted my interest.

About 15 years ago I would have (and did) made sure I watched a game like Real v Bayern.  Now, they've played each other so often (compared to the old European Cup) that it just doesn't interest me as much in terms of making sure you watch the match.

Sure it will be a decent tie with 2 very good teams but, for me at least, it loses a bit/lot of it's appeal given how regularly the top teams play each other these days.

May well make sure I can watch the Leicester v Atletico games though.......


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 17, 2017)

Not easy for Leicester but to be honest, none of those sides will be an easy game. Liking the Real v Bayern game provided it has a firm referee that won't take any of the play acting both sides will no doubt engage in


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## Tashyboy (Mar 18, 2017)

Two days after getting back and cannot get that first half performance outta my head. Proper wound me up. Lots of talk about a kid at Monaco. mbappe or whatever. he is a young kid who they are raving about. City have an acadamy. A good un. Why are we not raving about some of our kids. Why are they not being given a chance. Same for other clubs. Wheres the kids coming through.


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## Kellfire (Mar 18, 2017)

The nature of the biggest clubs means they can't often afford to let the best youth have the time in the first team they need to flourish, that's why the best youngsters come from lower levels than the CL teams.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 18, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			The nature of the biggest clubs means they can't often afford to let the best youth have the time in the first team they need to flourish, that's why the best youngsters come from lower levels than the CL teams.
		
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Sad but true. 
The top teams want instant success.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 18, 2017)

I heard a youth coach from Charlton talking on the radio a while ago. When asked about how he attracts kids/parents ahead of them choosing Chelsea, arsenal etc and he talked about "a pathway". He kept repeating that phrase. He could show parents a direct pathway from junior level through to the reserves and then to the 1st team. Made perfect sense.

Some PL teams have a clear pathway but some, Chelsea, Utd and city absolutely don't. Very sad as city in particular used to be renowned for bringing young local kids through the ranks. Now they import kids from all over, have brilliant facilities but none get a chance.

Tashy, one for you. Back in the late 70's my dad looked after the Manchester Boys representative team for a few years. They won a national cup and a few of the team went on to be pro's. One of them was Dave Bennett. The city team in the 80's had plenty of locals in and around the team back then. A clear pathway in fact &#128513;


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## sawtooth (Mar 18, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Two days after getting back and cannot get that first half performance outta my head. Proper wound me up. Lots of talk about a kid at Monaco. mbappe or whatever. he is a young kid who they are raving about. City have an acadamy. A good un. Why are we not raving about some of our kids. Why are they not being given a chance. Same for other clubs. Wheres the kids coming through.
		
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Because you sold your soul to the devil &#128520;


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## anotherdouble (Mar 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Because you sold your soul to the devil &#128520;
		
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What kids do the gonners bring through then


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## sawtooth (Mar 18, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			What kids do the gonners bring through then
		
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Quite a few actually , Bellerin, Coquelin, Gibbs, Wilshere, etc came through Arsenal youth teams.


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## anotherdouble (Mar 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Quite a few actually , Bellerin, Coquelin, Gibbs, Wilshere, etc came through Arsenal youth teams.
		
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Bellerin 2 years in youth team at 16 -18 is not bringing him through. Coquelin joined you aged 17 and made 1st team debut at 17. Sorry but not bringing him through. Gibbs joining you at 15 is ok in my book. Jack Wiltshire at 9 is really bringing a kid through the ranks


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Quite a few actually , Bellerin, Coquelin, Gibbs, Wilshere, etc came through Arsenal youth teams.
		
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Three of them came from other teams Youth Academies - only Wilshire came through the Arsenal Academy 

Bellerin - Barcelona 
Gibbs - Wimbeldon
Coqulein - some French team 

Even the Mbbabe for Monaco was developed through another French team

There isn't many players that are developed through the whole clubs Academy and onto the first teams at most of the Prem Clubs 

Rashford is the one player who went right through Man Utd academy and to play in the Prem for them


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## sawtooth (Mar 18, 2017)

Pulis thugs at it again I see. 

Sanchez very lucky after that challenge by McClean.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 18, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I heard a youth coach from Charlton talking on the radio a while ago. When asked about how he attracts kids/parents ahead of them choosing Chelsea, arsenal etc and he talked about "a pathway". He kept repeating that phrase. He could show parents a direct pathway from junior level through to the reserves and then to the 1st team. Made perfect sense.

Some PL teams have a clear pathway but some, Chelsea, Utd and city absolutely don't. Very sad as city in particular used to be renowned for bringing young local kids through the ranks. Now they import kids from all over, have brilliant facilities but none get a chance.
		
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Not sure I'd include Utd as not having a pathway. Don't they have some ridiculous stat that there has been a player that has come through their academy in every match day squad since 1950ish?


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## anotherdouble (Mar 18, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Not sure I'd include Utd as not having a pathway. Don't they have some ridiculous stat that there has been a player that has come through their academy in every match day squad since 1950ish?
		
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If that true it even more remarkable with Jose in charge


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## Papas1982 (Mar 18, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			If that true it even more remarkable with Jose in charge
		
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I think until a year or so ago, the record was one in the line up!

rashford now the only real light. But as much as they are throwing money around, of the big clubs I think they do still like to have a bit of British about them.


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## Fish (Mar 18, 2017)

Boing, Boing, Boing &#128540;


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## One Planer (Mar 18, 2017)

Fish said:



			Boing, Boing, Boing &#128540;
		
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Bring boing


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## Fish (Mar 18, 2017)

Boing,Boing, Wenger must stay &#128077;


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 18, 2017)

&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## richy (Mar 18, 2017)

Well they can't use the money excuse when they get beat off a side like WBA, so I wonder what it'll be this time?


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2017)

richy said:



			Well they can't use the money excuse when they get beat off a side like WBA, so I wonder what it'll be this time?
		
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See post #9117


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 18, 2017)

Surely that's it & he's got to go. 
It's getting embarrassing for him now.


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## anotherdouble (Mar 18, 2017)

What does Steve Bould do on a day to day basis. Job for the boys.


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## anotherdouble (Mar 18, 2017)

Arsenal fan tv should be a cracker tonight fam


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2017)

I'm looking forward to today's episode of innit blud fam


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Arsenal fan tv should be a cracker tonight fam
		
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Should be entertaining blud


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 18, 2017)

Piers Morgan & ArsenalPhil will be out with their banners after the game &#128514;


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 18, 2017)

When I used to play cricket if a really poor bowler was on there was an art to milking them just enough but not too much so that the captain took him off. Other teams in the PL need to think about that analogy at the moment as otherwise Arsenal are going to get rid of Wenger.


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## anotherdouble (Mar 18, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Should be entertaining blud
		
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Too true fam


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 18, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Not sure I'd include Utd as not having a pathway. Don't they have some ridiculous stat that there has been a player that has come through their academy in every match day squad since 1950ish?
		
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Interested to hear that. I can't think of any players that have come through their ranks in the last 10 years. Clearly for that stat to be true there must be some although to be fair Ryan Giggs playing for 20 odd yrs covers a big stint there.


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## richy (Mar 18, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			See post #9117
		
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I'm in mobile mode. What does it say?


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2017)

richy said:



			I'm in mobile mode. What does it say?
		
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"Pulis thugs at it again"

I think sawtooth thinks everybody should play like Arsenal, nicely nicely.


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## anotherdouble (Mar 18, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			"Pulis thugs at it again"

I think sawtooth thinks everybody should play like Arsenal, nicely nicely.
		
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77% possession 750 passes 2 attempts on target the last one being 33rd minute and lose 3-1. The gonners can keep it


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## richy (Mar 18, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			"Pulis thugs at it again"

I think sawtooth thinks everybody should play like Arsenal, nicely nicely.
		
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Last time I checked, football was a contact sport. 

Arsene wants teams to play whichever way benefits Arsenal


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 18, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Interested to hear that. I can't think of any players that have come through their ranks in the last 10 years. Clearly for that stat to be true there must be some although to be fair Ryan Giggs playing for 20 odd yrs covers a big stint there.
		
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Up to 2012 Manchester United have had a graduate from their youth system in every single match day squad since October 30, 1937. Thatâ€™s 75 years, or 3,623 consecutive games.

And, if that wasnâ€™t impressive enough, up until 2011 there was a player from the youth system in every single starting XI for 73 years. However, on May 1, 2011 John O'Shea started the game on the bench against Arsenal.

Pogba was a Utd Academy player ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 18, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			"Pulis thugs at it again"

I think sawtooth thinks everybody should play like Arsenal, nicely nicely.
		
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Wasn't so long ago that your old pal Sinbad said the results didn't really matter,he was just enjoying the football under Klopp &#128584;


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 18, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Pogba was a Utd Academy player &#62978;&#62978;&#62978;
		
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A bit like some of the Arsenal players quoted earlier I don't count imported players. I'm sure you are being tongue in cheek with Pogba but no doubt others will try to count him. The other stats are impressive to be fair.


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## sawtooth (Mar 18, 2017)

Disappointing result but we lost there last year and lose points most years there.

Sanchez clinically taken out and wasn't in the game from about the 40th minute but that's what you get with West Brom. 

Can't excuse the terrible defending of set pieces though, I would like to know what Steve Bould actually does for a living because it's not organising the back four that's for sure.

Still a lot to play for but need to improve quickly and for once looking forward to an international break.


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## Hobbit (Mar 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Disappointing result but we lost there last year and lose points most years there.

Sanchez clinically taken out and wasn't in the game from about the 40th minute but that's what you get with West Brom. 

Can't excuse the terrible defending of set pieces though, I would like to know what Steve Bould actually does for a living because it's not organising the back four that's for sure.

Still a lot to play for but need to improve quickly and for once looking forward to an international break.
		
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Don't worry, Utd have a tough game tomorrow


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 18, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A bit like some of the Arsenal players quoted earlier I don't count imported players. I'm sure you are being tongue in cheek with Pogba but no doubt others will try to count him. The other stats are impressive to be fair.
		
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Just love the fact they had him as an academy player then bought him back for 80 odd mil &#128514;&#128514;


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 18, 2017)

Yes, that will never stop being funny. Even more so as he is currently playing like an Â£80k player and the Â£80m looks to have been wasted.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 18, 2017)

Leicester players must have really had it in for Ranieri.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 18, 2017)

Get past the sentimentality and you can't argue with what the owners did though. Their decision is being proved correct over and over again at the moment.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 18, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Get past the sentimentality and you can't argue with what the owners did though. Their decision is being proved correct over and over again at the moment.
		
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Yep can't argue with that.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 18, 2017)

Willian :whoo:


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## Fish (Mar 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Disappointing result but we lost there last year and lose points most years there..
		
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That's ok then, you obviously project to lose points away to West Brom every season ðŸ˜œ



sawtooth said:



			Sanchez clinically taken out and wasn't in the game from about the 40th minute but that's what you get with West Brom.
		
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Didn't see it as I missed the start but are you saying that once taken out or tackled harshly he gave up and didn't want to fight & play anymore but was left on for a further 38 minutes ðŸ¤”? 



sawtooth said:



			Can't excuse the terrible defending of set pieces though, I would like to know what Steve Bould actually does for a living because it's not organising the back four that's for sure..
		
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And who manages Steve Bould ðŸ¤”




sawtooth said:



			Still a lot to play for but need to improve quickly
		
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I think that horse has firmly bolted,  5th position and even your game in-hand can't see you overthrow Liverpool to take back 4th and by tonight that could well be 6th if Yernited get a result ðŸ˜œ

Arsenal without Champions League is very much a possibility now, not spending just some of that Â£200m in the bank will cost you that and some with the inevitable loss of TV, Sponsorship and Commercial revenue, but not to worry, the ardent short changed fans will dig deeper into their pockets for overpriced ticket prices to watch substandard football ðŸ˜œ

Wenger must stay ðŸ‘

#GroundhogDay ðŸ˜‚


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## One Planer (Mar 18, 2017)

Good game this.


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## Hobbit (Mar 18, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think that horse has firmly bolted,  5th position and even your game in-hand can't see you overthrow Liverpool to take back 4th and by tonight that could well be 6th if Yernited get a result &#62978;
		
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I predict that by midnight tonight Boro v Utd will be a 0-0 draw.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 18, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Good game this.
		
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Costa on a yellow & Stoke players trying to wind him up?


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## One Planer (Mar 18, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Costa on a yellow & Stoke players trying to wind him up?
		
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Easy target.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 18, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Easy target.
		
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Yep,can't really blame opponents for doing it. 
He should just focus on banging a couple of goals in to shut em up. 

Was it a penalty?


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## One Planer (Mar 18, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yep,can't really blame opponents for doing it. 
He should just focus on banging a couple of goals in to shut em up. 

Was it a penalty?
		
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I wouldn't have given it.

Well taken though.


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## fundy (Mar 18, 2017)

Fish said:



			That's ok then, you obviously project to lose points away to West Brom every season ðŸ˜œ



Didn't see it as I missed the start but are you saying that once taken out or tackled harshly he gave up and didn't want to fight & play anymore but was left on for a further 38 minutes ðŸ¤”? 



And who manages Steve Bould ðŸ¤”




I think that horse has firmly bolted,  5th position and even your game in-hand can't see you overthrow Liverpool to take back 4th and by tonight that could well be 6th if Yernited get a result ðŸ˜œ

Arsenal without Champions League is very much a possibility now, not spending just some of that Â£200m in the bank will cost you that and some with the inevitable loss of TV, Sponsorship and Commercial revenue, but not to worry, the ardent short changed fans will dig deeper into their pockets for overpriced ticket prices to watch substandard football ðŸ˜œ

Wenger must stay ðŸ‘

#GroundhogDay ðŸ˜‚
		
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assume the groundhog day relates to your posting 

glad i went out this pm and didnt see the game, sort annoyed i didnt back WBA though lol


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## Fish (Mar 18, 2017)

fundy said:



			assume the groundhog day relates to your posting 

glad i went out this pm and didnt see the game, sort annoyed i didnt back WBA though lol
		
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The set pieces were shocking and anyone of 3 players could have scored at times and 2 goals were free well taken headers.  There was a good counter and a one on one with your keeper who blocked well, so it could have been a much worse score. 

There's clearly no plan B, no change of tactics, players were at a loss in defence who was marking who? 

It one thing losing a match due to the opposition just being better on the day and another when a top four team just looks all at sea with no leadership on the park or coming from the sidelines! 

Steve Bould is stealing a living if he's responsible for the defence because it was a shambles today.


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## sawtooth (Mar 18, 2017)

Fish said:



			That's ok then, you obviously project to lose points away to West Brom every season ðŸ˜œ



Didn't see it as I missed the start but are you saying that once taken out or tackled harshly he gave up and didn't want to fight & play anymore but was left on for a further 38 minutes ðŸ¤”? 



And who manages Steve Bould ðŸ¤”




I think that horse has firmly bolted,  5th position and even your game in-hand can't see you overthrow Liverpool to take back 4th and by tonight that could well be 6th if Yernited get a result ðŸ˜œ

Arsenal without Champions League is very much a possibility now, not spending just some of that Â£200m in the bank will cost you that and some with the inevitable loss of TV, Sponsorship and Commercial revenue, but not to worry, the ardent short changed fans will dig deeper into their pockets for overpriced ticket prices to watch substandard football ðŸ˜œ

Wenger must stay ðŸ‘

#GroundhogDay ðŸ˜‚
		
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Yeah but it's the clubs money though not Russian oil money.

Keep celebrating your purchased honours though Fish if that's what makes you happy.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah but it's the clubs money though not Russian oil money.

Keep celebrating your purchased honours though Fish if that's what makes you happy.
		
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Give it a rest now village &#128077;&#127995;


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## stokie_93 (Mar 18, 2017)

:rant:


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## Fish (Mar 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah but it's the clubs money though not Russian oil money.

Keep celebrating your purchased honours though Fish if that's what makes you happy.
		
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Your pathetic, like an old woman and broken record &#128514;&#128514;

Your well suited to Arsenal &#128540;


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## Fish (Mar 18, 2017)

stokie_93 said:



			:rant:
		
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Made amends for giving a stupid penalty away.


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## stokie_93 (Mar 18, 2017)

Fish said:



			Made amends for giving a stupid penalty away.
		
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Just typical Stoke.

put a brilliant shift in and undo it all by a defensive error. 
Matched you superbly in the midfield today and just not shown enough attacking threat.


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## Fish (Mar 18, 2017)

stokie_93 said:



			Just typical Stoke.

put a brilliant shift in and undo it all by a defensive error. 
Matched you superbly in the midfield today and just not shown enough attacking threat.
		
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Yeah but it cost you 6 yellow cards aswell and that's a silly red card in the last seconds, but with so many yellows it was inevitable that someone could walk!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 18, 2017)

I'm feeling very dizzy being so high up the League. Best enjoy it while it lasts :rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 18, 2017)

Think it's fair to say that Conte is doing a pretty decent job :whoo:


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## sawtooth (Mar 18, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Think it's fair to say that Conte is doing a pretty decent job :whoo:
		
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Yes very difficult job when you have spent over a billion. Well done that man!


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yes very difficult job when you have spent over a billion. Well done that man!
		
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:clap::clap:


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 18, 2017)

UTD finally off 6th &#128586;


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## One Planer (Mar 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah but it's the clubs money though not Russian oil money.

Keep celebrating your purchased honours though Fish if that's what makes you happy.
		
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Just for clarification.  

Stan Kroenke is worth $7.4BN. Roman Abramovic is worth $9BN.

The difference is one invests into their football club, the other doesn't.


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## sawtooth (Mar 18, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Just for clarification.  

Stan Kroenke is worth $7.4BN. Roman Abramovic is worth $9BN.

The difference is one invests into their football club, the other doesn't.
		
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That's right, we don't use external money to buy success.

What point were you making in case I missed it?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 18, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Just for clarification.  

Stan Kroenke is worth $7.4BN. Roman Abramovic is worth $9BN.

The difference is one invests into their football club, the other doesn't.
		
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Kroenke has about 60% of the shares, the other guy with over 30% is a ...............Russian Billionaire worth $14BN, Ooooops looks like some Russia money is OK :rofl:


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## Hobbit (Mar 18, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Kroenke has about 60% of the shares, the other guy with over 30% is a ...............Russian Billionaire worth $14BN, Ooooops looks like some Russia money is OK :rofl:
		
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That must be the same Kroenke that got paid Â£3million by Arsenal for advice. And the same one that's part of a $1bn development programme for LA Rams. 

Sounds like he's happy to buy success for the American sports teamS he has but is happy to see Arsenal fade.


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## One Planer (Mar 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			That's right, we don't use external money to buy success.

What point were you making in case I missed it?
		
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Does Kroenke invest into Arsenal?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 18, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Just for clarification.  

Stan Kroenke is worth $7.4BN. Roman Abramovic is worth $9BN.

The difference is one invests into their football club, the other doesn't.
		
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I think the difference between the two is clear 

How much an owner is worth is irrelevant it's how they spend the money in the club 

Arsenal's money that is spent is money generated by the club itself - from tickets , prize money , sponsership etc 

Chelsea owner 13 years ago boaught the club and then piled lots of his own money into the club using his own personal fortune to buy players etc - the club itself is in a lot of debt to the owner. They still run a little bit of a loss every year but now they are using money earned to spend. Chelsea owner personally financed Chelsea rise from Cup winning team to a league winning team. They aren't the only one and UEFA have tried rules to stop it happening but I have no idea what's happening with the FFP now 

The issue that Sean misses a number of times is - the money that Arsenal have earned is there to spend - they have the funds to buy expensive players and give players the wages they need - but it appears that Wenger doesn't want to do that , why ? No idea - maybe he feels like Sean and it's not the right way to do it ? 

The other point that Sean also misses is - Leicester , they showed that he is get enough good players and get the tactics right and the team motivated then you can defy the odds. The money excuse doesn't wash anymore.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 18, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think the difference between the two is clear 

How much an owner is worth is irrelevant it's how they spend the money in the club 

Arsenal's money that is spent is money generated by the club itself - from tickets , prize money , sponsership etc 

Chelsea owner 13 years ago boaught the club and then piled lots of his own money into the club using his own personal fortune to buy players etc - the club itself is in a lot of debt to the owner. They still run a little bit of a loss every year but now they are using money earned to spend. Chelsea owner personally financed Chelsea rise from Cup winning team to a league winning team. They aren't the only one and UEFA have tried rules to stop it happening but I have no idea what's happening with the FFP now 

The issue that Sean misses a number of times is - the money that Arsenal have earned is there to spend - they have the funds to buy expensive players and give players the wages they need - but it appears that Wenger doesn't want to do that , why ? No idea - maybe he feels like Sean and it's not the right way to do it ? 

The other point that Sean also misses is - Leicester , they showed that he is get enough good players and get the tactics right and the team motivated then you can defy the odds. The money excuse doesn't wash anymore.
		
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So Chelsea have an owner who has used his money to make the Club succesful and Arsenal have shareholders who are taking money out of the Club as the value in their shares rise.

So in reality we're back to Trophy cabinets or spreadsheets.


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## chrisd (Mar 18, 2017)

So, we had no shots on target and win - I'll take it!!


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			So Chelsea have an owner who has used his money to make the Club succesful and Arsenal have shareholders who are taking money out of the Club as the value in their shares rise.

*So in reality we're back to Trophy cabinets or spreadsheets.*

Click to expand...

Spot on.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 18, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Spot on.
		
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The start of the Premiership started it all off. The money in the game is obscene - if clubs have owners willing to throw billions into the team without having to worry about survival etc then teams like Chelsea and City will have the upper hand. Our owners get a lot of stick because they don't pile in millions of their owne money but they are never going to do it - and most owners will be like that.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The start of the Premiership started it all off. The money in the game is obscene - if clubs have owners willing to throw billions into the team without having to worry about survival etc then teams like Chelsea and City will have the upper hand. Our owners get a lot of stick because they don't pile in millions of their owne money but they are never going to do it - and most owners will be like that.
		
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It was never just about money in the mid to late 90's, I'd say it's only really became about money over the last 10yrs when "investment" groups became owners.

Our owners are a prime example, much more interested in the P&L sheet as opposed to battling to become England's best again.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 18, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			It was never just about money in the mid to late 90's, I'd say it's only really became about money over the last 10yrs when "investment" groups became owners.

Our owners are a prime example, much more interested in the P&L sheet as opposed to battling to become England's best again.
		
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Are they really more interested in the balance sheet ?

Spent more money as owners than any other owner both in player purchases , wages and stadium improvements - they aren't taking any profit out of the club and anymore earned stays in the club to buy players with - they aren't going to run the club at a loss or pile millions of their own money into the club to buy players in the same way that happened with City and Chelsea. If they were only interested in selling for a profit why haven't they sold us when we are now worth a great deal more than when they first bought us ? They could have easily walked away by now with a nice tidy profit but they haven't.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 18, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are they really more interested in the balance sheet ?

Spent more money as owners than any other owner both in player purchases , wages and stadium improvements - they aren't taking any profit out of the club and anymore earned stays in the club to buy players with - they aren't going to run the club at a loss or pile millions of their own money into the club to buy players in the same way that happened with City and Chelsea. If they were only interested in selling for a profit why haven't they sold us when we are now worth a great deal more than when they first bought us ? They could have easily walked away by now with a nice tidy profit but they haven't.
		
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And since they became owners in 2010 you have won 1 trophy, you give Sawtooth enough stick about their owners, how long are you giving your's if you don't win anything?


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 18, 2017)

I think that's Arsenal done and the CL qualification run finished now. Can't see them making 4th. Wenger looks to have lost all heart for the battle, the players look lost and I can see a lot of people going on and off the pitch in the summer


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are they really more interested in the balance sheet ?

Spent more money as owners than any other owner both in player purchases , wages and stadium improvements - they aren't taking any profit out of the club and anymore earned stays in the club to buy players with - they aren't going to run the club at a loss or pile millions of their own money into the club to buy players in the same way that happened with City and Chelsea. If they were only interested in selling for a profit why haven't they sold us when we are now worth a great deal more than when they first bought us ? They could have easily walked away by now with a nice tidy profit but they haven't.
		
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Phil, we've had this numerous times and I'm still of the same opinion. They're an investment group who are only concerned about their investment. We sold more than we spent this year, the wage structure is significantly lower although recent accounts show a wage increase due to a turnover of staff and we've employed more non playing staff. 

When's the Rd end getting done?? Yes that's right it's not because they can't rip the fans to pay for it. It's all about money for them, you don't need to win anymore to make money.

Sold our best players year on year, Coutinho's next,  mark my words.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 18, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Phil, we've had this numerous times and I'm still of the same opinion. They're an investment group who are only concerned about their investment. We sold more than we spent this year, the wage structure is significantly lower although recent accounts show a wage increase due to a turnover of staff and we've employed more non playing staff. 

When's the Rd end getting done?? Yes that's right it's not because they can't rip the fans to pay for it. It's all about money for them, you don't need to win anymore to make money.

Sold our best players year on year, Coutinho's next,  mark my words.
		
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Blame the manager - he had the money to spend but didn't 

Our players leaving isn't because of our owners it's because of a lack of success on the pitch 

We had to reduce costs because the club was running at an unsustainable loss year on year out before they arrived 

I'll ask again if it's all about money - why haven't they sold the club for the big gain they can get ? They take no money from the club as you will see from the accounts which shows the club still running at a loss - so if it's about money they aren't doing a great job of getting money from the club are they ? Lots of money has been spent , look at the amount of money we have spent in the transfer market since they arrived - yes maybe their choices of managers or people involved in transfers can certainly be questioned as we have wasted a lot of money where they are concerned 

It will always come down to the same question  - if they only care about their investment why haven't they sold up for the big profit they could get for us right now


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blame the manager - he had the money to spend but didn't 




			Are you falling for the or machine?
		
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Our players leaving isn't because of our owners it's because of a lack of success on the pitch 




			Whose fault is that when our best players are being sold and then replaced with Aspas and Alberto?  Have you forgotten what JWH said when we sold Torres and replaced him with Carroll? Because I haven't!!
		
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We had to reduce costs because the club was running at an unsustainable loss year on year out before they arrived 




			Fair point but that was down to how the previous shysters were trying to run the club.
		
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I'll ask again if it's all about money - why haven't they sold the club for the big gain they can get ?




			I'm not privy to the reasons but I'm assuming they're waiting for the loan repayment from LFC  to be repaid.
		
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 They take no money from the club as you will see from the accounts which shows the club still running at a loss - so if it's about money they aren't doing a great job of getting money from the club are they ? 




			I've never once accused them of taking any money from the club though I'm pretty sure there expenses are well covered.
		
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 Lots of money has been spent 




			very badly I agree  but it's with constraints, Ian ayre's week long jaunt to tie the konopylanka deal and all he came back with was a bag of duty free after disagreeing over Â£2m. Then there's the Delle Ali fiasco because they wouldn't pay him  Â£5k pw.
		
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, look at the amount of money we have spent in the transfer market since they arrived




			most of it has been generated by sales, they've hardly fronted money to buy players
		
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 - yes maybe their choices of managers or people involved in transfers can certainly be questioned as we have wasted a lot of money where they are concerned 

It will always come down to the same question  - if they only care about their investment why haven't they sold up for the big profit they could get for us right now
		
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 Greed no doubt, they want Â£1bn.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 18, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			And since they became owners in 2010 you have won 1 trophy, you give Sawtooth enough stick about their owners, how long are you giving your's if you don't win anything?
		
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Fair point. What about other teams. If you're a Spurs fan, there is clear forward momentum, and City and Chelsea will usually contend for top four and *should* get out of CL group stages and both have won trophies in recent years. How long as a Liverpool fan do you give it without winning another trophy, and Arsenal are a club on the cusp of seeing the nucleus of the side and management go. Everton are moving forward too but will they then be hampered by the lack of capacity and perhaps an ability to get the players in to really sustain a top four challenge


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## sawtooth (Mar 18, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think the difference between the two is clear 

How much an owner is worth is irrelevant it's how they spend the money in the club 

Arsenal's money that is spent is money generated by the club itself - from tickets , prize money , sponsership etc 

Chelsea owner 13 years ago boaught the club and then piled lots of his own money into the club using his own personal fortune to buy players etc - the club itself is in a lot of debt to the owner. They still run a little bit of a loss every year but now they are using money earned to spend. Chelsea owner personally financed Chelsea rise from Cup winning team to a league winning team. They aren't the only one and UEFA have tried rules to stop it happening but I have no idea what's happening with the FFP now 

The issue that Sean misses a number of times is - the money that Arsenal have earned is there to spend - they have the funds to buy expensive players and give players the wages they need - but it appears that Wenger doesn't want to do that , why ? No idea - maybe he feels like Sean and it's not the right way to do it ? 

The other point that Sean also misses is - Leicester , they showed that he is get enough good players and get the tactics right and the team motivated then you can defy the odds. The money excuse doesn't wash anymore.
		
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Arsenal are spending their money and will continue to spend but they must do this responsibly and within their means.

What good is spending Â£200M if you cannot earn enough to sustain the new increased level of wages? Its a bit like me buying a fleet of rolls royce cars, even if I did have the money to do that the maintenance and running costs would kill me.

So Wenger blows Â£200M on 4 players Â£50M each, Â£200K a week each for 4-5 years. Other existing players would some of that as well. The increased opex would be astronomical with CL income let alone if Arsenal don't qualify often in the next 5 years. It would be reckless and  tantamount to gambling.

No thanks.

And as for Leicester do you want a Â£1000 bet that Leicester won't win the premiership again in the next 20 years? Anyone?

You can't include Leicester as it was a perfect storms and the stars aligned last season. Won't happen again in my lifetime that's for sure.

No, back to normal now and the clubs with the most wealth will succeed. Chelsea, City and Utd. 

Arsenal are not really falling behind, those 3 are just out spending the rest and moving ahead. 

I can comfortably predict that Spurs, Liverpool,. Everton and others will just be making up the numbers in the next 10 years as they have done in the past 10. They may threaten an upset on occasions but that's about it.

Teams with the best players usually win and the best players cost a lot of money.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 18, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Greed no doubt, they want Â£1bn.
		
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Hell of a lot of guess work there 

And also a lot of stuff out of the owners control 

Yes they haven't spent loads of their own money buying players - they never were going to 

The biggest things they have been guilty of is - puttingAyre in charge of football matters and money , his history at Huddersfield showed he shouldn't have been near transfers , the transfer committee and employing Rodgers - a better manager with the money he was given would have given us better results 

So ultimately the biggest finger to point at them isn't a finance issue its a recruitment issue


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			And since they became owners in 2010 you have won 1 trophy, you give Sawtooth enough stick about their owners, how long are you giving your's if you don't win anything?
		
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In fairness, they've got rid when they've had to, though Rodgers should've been out of the door in the summer. 

This manager needs backing properly in the summer with no influences from wanna be football men. No excuses.


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## Hobbit (Mar 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Arsenal are spending their money and will continue to spend but they must do this responsibly and within their means.

What good is spending Â£200M if you cannot earn enough to sustain the new increased level of wages? Its a bit like me buying a fleet of rolls royce cars, even if I did have the money to do that the maintenance and running costs would kill me.

So Wenger blows Â£200M on 4 players Â£50M each, Â£200K a week each for 4-5 years. Other existing players would some of that as well. The increased opex would be astronomical with CL income let alone if Arsenal don't qualify often in the next 5 years. It would be reckless and  tantamount to gambling.

No thanks.

And as for Leicester do you want a Â£1000 bet that Leicester won't win the premiership again in the next 20 years? Anyone?

You can't include Leicester as it was a perfect storms and the stars aligned last season. Won't happen again in my lifetime that's for sure.

No, back to normal now and the clubs with the most wealth will succeed. Chelsea, City and Utd. 

Arsenal are not really falling behind, those 3 are just out spending the rest and moving ahead. 

I can comfortably predict that Spurs, Liverpool,. Everton and others will just be making up the numbers in the next 10 years as they have done in the past 10. They may threaten an upset on occasions but that's about it.

Teams with the best players usually win and the best players cost a lot of money.
		
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You miss two points in your financials. As you bring players in you sell players out, offsetting expenditure at that same as you improve the value of the club. And buying success, which you're vehemently opposed to, brings in cash.

Clumsily you could call it speculating to accumulate.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 18, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Phil, we've had this numerous times and I'm still of the same opinion. They're an investment group who are only concerned about their investment. We sold more than we spent this year, the wage structure is significantly lower although recent accounts show a wage increase due to a turnover of staff and we've employed more non playing staff. 

When's the Rd end getting done?? Yes that's right it's not because they can't rip the fans to pay for it. It's all about money for them, you don't need to win anymore to make money.

Sold our best players year on year, Coutinho's next,  mark my words.
		
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Unless Coutinho really ups his game I can't see anyone coming in for him.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 18, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			In fairness, they've got rid when they've had to, though Rodgers should've been out of the door in the summer. 

This manager needs backing properly in the summer with no influences from wanna be football men. No excuses.
		
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Then surely owners of any Club need to be honest with the fans, are they employing Klopp/Koeman with a 3-5yr plan were they are willing to back them so at the end of the plan they want to see success and is that success to be determined by Trophies or Spreadsheets.

I understand Rodgers had to go, but some of the criticism seems unfair, he got you's to within a few games of winning the PL, why was Suarez sold? It's ok saying he didn't go to a PL rival, but at the time was irreplaceable.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Arsenal are spending their money and will continue to spend but they must do this responsibly and within their means.

What good is spending Â£200M if you cannot earn enough to sustain the new increased level of wages? Its a bit like me buying a fleet of rolls royce cars, even if I did have the money to do that the maintenance and running costs would kill me.

So Wenger blows Â£200M on 4 players Â£50M each, Â£200K a week each for 4-5 years. Other existing players would some of that as well. The increased opex would be astronomical with CL income let alone if Arsenal don't qualify often in the next 5 years. It would be reckless and  tantamount to gambling.

No thanks.

And as for Leicester do you want a Â£1000 bet that Leicester won't win the premiership again in the next 20 years? Anyone?

You can't include Leicester as it was a perfect storms and the stars aligned last season. Won't happen again in my lifetime that's for sure.

No, back to normal now and the clubs with the most wealth will succeed. Chelsea, City and Utd. 

Arsenal are not really falling behind, those 3 are just out spending the rest and moving ahead. 

I can comfortably predict that Spurs, Liverpool,. Everton and others will just be making up the numbers in the next 10 years as they have done in the past 10. They may threaten an upset on occasions but that's about it.

Teams with the best players usually win and the best players cost a lot of money.
		
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How many extra contracts did Arsenal keep giving players like Rosicky , Diaby even players like Wilshire , Walcott , Gibbs - players who spent 75% of their career injured ? How much are player like Mertesacker etc on - even Coqeulin etc - sub standard players on mega contracts - players that don't win teams league titles. 

Why should other players want more of Arsenal spend big of some real top quality players ? If they want the big wages the play for them. 

Arsenal are spending money - just poorly , spent more on Chaka than Chelsea spent on Kante. How much exactly is Wilshire on whilst he sits on Bournemouths bench ? How much was Perez for him to spend most of the time on the bench ? 

Arsenal have had money to spend without risking going out of business but ultimately the money has been spent poorly by the manager.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 18, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How many extra contracts did Arsenal keep giving players like Rosicky , Diaby even players like Wilshire , Walcott , Gibbs - players who spent 75% of their career injured ? How much are player like Mertesacker etc on - even Coqeulin etc - sub standard players on mega contracts - players that don't win teams league titles. 

Why should other players want more of Arsenal spend big of some real top quality players ? If they want the big wages the play for them. 

Arsenal are spending money - just poorly , spent more on Chaka than Chelsea spent on Kante. How much exactly is Wilshire on whilst he sits on Bournemouths bench ? How much was Perez for him to spend most of the time on the bench ? 

Arsenal have had money to spend without risking going out of business but ultimately the money has been spent poorly by the manager.
		
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Not sure with some of Liverpool's signings under Hodgson and Rodgers you've got much to shout about


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Arsenal are spending their money and will continue to spend but they must do this responsibly and within their means.

What good is spending Â£200M if you cannot earn enough to sustain the new increased level of wages? Its a bit like me buying a fleet of rolls royce cars, even if I did have the money to do that the maintenance and running costs would kill me.

So Wenger blows Â£200M on 4 players Â£50M each, Â£200K a week each for 4-5 years. Other existing players would some of that as well. The increased opex would be astronomical with CL income let alone if Arsenal don't qualify often in the next 5 years. It would be reckless and  tantamount to gambling.

No thanks.

And as for Leicester do you want a Â£1000 bet that Leicester won't win the premiership again in the next 20 years? Anyone?

You can't include Leicester as it was a perfect storms and the stars aligned last season. Won't happen again in my lifetime that's for sure.

No, back to normal now and the clubs with the most wealth will succeed. Chelsea, City and Utd. 

Arsenal are not really falling behind, those 3 are just out spending the rest and moving ahead. 

I can comfortably predict that Spurs, Liverpool,. Everton and others will just be making up the numbers in the next 10 years as they have done in the past 10. They may threaten an upset on occasions but that's about it.

Teams with the best players usually win and the best players cost a lot of money.
		
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I would agree with a lot of your points if you had been a mid table team striving to join the big boys, but your not, you've been 2-3 players away at times so you'd be building over succesive seasons.

Would you be happy if from next season Arsenal won nothing but finished top 4 for the following 5 Seasons.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hell of a lot of guess work there 

And also a lot of stuff out of the owners control 

Yes they haven't spent loads of their own money buying players - they never were going to 

The biggest things they have been guilty of is - puttingAyre in charge of football matters and money , his history at Huddersfield showed he shouldn't have been near transfers , the transfer committee and employing Rodgers - a better manager with the money he was given would have given us better results 

So ultimately the biggest finger to point at them isn't a finance issue its a recruitment issue
		
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Phil you've asked me why haven't they sold Upto now now, and as I'm not privy to their plans I've had to guess!!  What else am I supposed to do?

If and when they do sell I hope they leave a chunk of the profits in the LFC accounts seeing as they won't have used their own money - "they were never going to spend their own money was they" 

If we're not making enough money to compete, is it really wrong to expect them to front some  money to make us compete? 

Of course it's a finance issue, good recruitment comes directly from proper financial backing as history has proved!!

They bought us for a song, and don't forget, a new stadium was "non negotiable", we've ended up with a little makeover instead and people like you cream themselves  over how great the owners are. 

I'm going to leave it here now Phil, otherwise we'll end up going round in circles.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 18, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not sure with some of Liverpool's signings under Hodgson and Rodgers you've got much to shout about
		
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Except we're not comparing Arsenal to Liverpool, delete Liverpool, insert Loads of other clubs


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Then surely owners of any Club need to be honest with the fans, are they employing Klopp/Koeman with a 3-5yr plan were they are willing to back them so at the end of the plan they want to see success and is that success to be determined by Trophies or Spreadsheets.

I understand Rodgers had to go, but some of the criticism seems unfair, he got you's to within a few games of winning the PL, why was Suarez sold? It's ok saying he didn't go to a PL rival, but at the time was irreplaceable.
		
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What criticism of Rodgers was unfair?

You really don't know why Suarez was sold?

The problem nowadays coaches are expected to make an instant transformation, I've read and heard that klopp should be doing better because he's had 3 transfer windows :rofl: 

Guardiola has struggled at city and Mourinho has struggled and these are two of the very best in world football. Every game, every tackle, every sub,every incident gets over analysed and the media love a good scaremongering.


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## fundy (Mar 18, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			What criticism of Rodgers was unfair?

You really don't know why Suarez was sold?

The problem nowadays coaches are expected to make an instant transformation, I've read and heard that klopp should be doing better because he's had 3 transfer windows :rofl: 

Guardiola has struggled at city and Mourinho has struggled and these are two of the very best in world football. Every game, every tackle, every sub,every incident gets over analysed and the *media love a good scaremongering*.
		
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this thread worse than the media most of the time!


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2017)

fundy said:



			this thread worse than the media most of the time!
		
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What more do you expect from armchair glory hunters?


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## sawtooth (Mar 18, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I would agree with a lot of your points if you had been a mid table team striving to join the big boys, but your not, you've been 2-3 players away at times so you'd be building over succesive seasons.

Would you be happy if from next season Arsenal won nothing but finished top 4 for the following 5 Seasons.
		
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Top 4 isn't a trophy but it's no disgrace to finish 4th behind the likes of Chelsea, City and United is it really?

Perhaps Arsenal miss out this year but that would be the first time in 21 years. It would hurt but i certainly wouldn't be spitting my dummy out. i think would be incredibly disrespectful to Wenger to kick off when it's his first failure to do it.

The idiots on Arsenal TV don't know what's in store after Wenger. They think a new man will come in and win the league and CL, I don't think it will be like that. If Wenger is struggling to compete then the next managers coming in after will also struggle unless there is a very different attitude to spending. 

 And by that I mean spending owners money in Chelsea-esque proportions, not spending responsibly like Wenger has been doing.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Top 4 isn't a trophy but it's no disgrace to finish 4th behind the likes of Chelsea, City and United is it really?

Perhaps Arsenal miss out this year but that would be the first time in 21 years. It would hurt but i certainly wouldn't be spitting my dummy out. i think would be incredibly disrespectful to Wenger to kick off when it's his first failure to do it.

The idiots on Arsenal TV don't know what's in store after Wenger. They think a new man will come in and win the league and CL, I don't think it will be like that. If Wenger is struggling to compete then the next managers coming in after will also struggle unless there is a very different attitude to spending. 

 And by that I mean spending owners money in Chelsea-esque proportions, not spending responsibly like Wenger has been doing.
		
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Or maybe Wengers Replacement would spen the money more wisely. 
Maybe he wouldn't keep hold of so many bang average players in the hope that they come good.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 18, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			What criticism of Rodgers was unfair?

You really don't know why Suarez was sold?

The problem nowadays coaches are expected to make an instant transformation, I've read and heard that klopp should be doing better because he's had 3 transfer windows :rofl: 

Guardiola has struggled at city and Mourinho has struggled and these are two of the very best in world football. Every game, every tackle, every sub,every incident gets over analysed and the media love a good scaremongering.
		
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Were talking general terms here, 

Rodgers was praised and was the answer to you's at one stage, certainly not a lot of criticism towards him from the majority of your fans that season, understandable the season after when it went south.

The point about Suarez is, you had him under a new contract, why didn't the owners show their intent and refuse to sell him? Unless there were things in the background I'm unaware of.

I agree coaches are unfairly expected to make instant transformation, hence my point about giving them time, and expectations should be realistic.

Hopefully at our age we can see past the media!


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## Fish (Mar 18, 2017)

Great 2nd leg at the Bridge for the Chelsea Youth dispatching Spurs 7-1 so 9-2 over the 2 legs &#128077;


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## sawtooth (Mar 18, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Or maybe Wengers Replacement would spen the money more wisely. 
Maybe he wouldn't keep hold of so many bang average players in the hope that they come good.
		
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Turning over players is very expensive business though isn't it. You bring someone in on a 4 year contract and decent salary it won't be cheap to get rid assuming someone else wants him. Bound to take a big hit just to offload him.


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## fundy (Mar 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Turning over players is very expensive business though isn't it. You bring someone in on a 4 year contract and decent salary it won't be cheap to get rid assuming someone else wants him. Bound to take a big hit just to offload him.
		
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keeping average players on greatly inflated salaries is a far far costlier business though!


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Turning over players is very expensive business though isn't it. You bring someone in on a 4 year contract and decent salary it won't be cheap to get rid assuming someone else wants him. Bound to take a big hit just to offload him.
		
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But Wenger seems happy to give these players new contracts. 
Walcott & Ox are perfect examples. 
Both decent players,but that's all they are.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Were talking general terms here, 




			ahh right
		
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Rodgers was praised and was the answer to you's at one stage, certainly not a lot of criticism towards him from the majority of your fans that season, understandable the season after when it went south.




			I was never sold on Rodgers and didn't agree on many things he done and said but I think he was sold down the river that summer. That said to save his own ass, he took a mighty dump on his assistant Colin pascoe the following summer.
		
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The point about Suarez is, you had him under a new contract, why didn't the owners show their intent and refuse to sell him? Unless there were things in the background I'm unaware of.




			that bite?? I thought the owners listened to outside influences and saw Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£'s "profit" on their star "asset".  I wanted him to stay.
		
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I agree coaches are unfairly expected to make instant transformation, hence my point about giving them time, and expectations should be realistic.

Hopefully at our age we can see past the media!




			We can, Its the loons that can't analyse a game for themselves and have to rely on what Carra, Henry,Souness,Wilkins or Neville have said after the match
		
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I hate it.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Turning over players is very expensive business though isn't it. You bring someone in on a 4 year contract and decent salary it won't be cheap to get rid assuming someone else wants him. Bound to take a big hit just to offload him.
		
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You'd think so wouldn't you. In the last 5 years Arsenal's nett transfer spend has been Â£206 million compared to Chelsea's Â£187 million.

Arsenal have Gibbs, Bellerin, Jenkinson, Mertesacker, Monreal, Koscielny, Coquelin, Ramsey, Cazorla, Giroud, Chamberlain, Walcott and Wilshere still on their books now who were also there in the 2012/13 season.

Chelsea have Ake, Azpilicueta, Cahill, Terry, Hazard, Moses and Luiz (who has been sold and returned).

So in the last 5 years Chelsea have a nett transfer spend of Â£19 million less than Arsenal yet have turned over more players than Arsenal in that time. And Chelsea have brought in players like Costa, Pedro, Willian, Fabregas, Matic, Kante, Courteois and Zouma in that time with a nett spend less than Arsenal. What's your next excuse?


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2017)

fundy said:



			keeping average players on greatly inflated salaries is a far far costlier business though!
		
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Game, Set and the Match :clap:


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Top 4 isn't a trophy but it's no disgrace to finish 4th behind the likes of Chelsea, City and United is it really?

Perhaps Arsenal miss out this year but that would be the first time in 21 years. It would hurt but i certainly wouldn't be spitting my dummy out. i think would be incredibly disrespectful to Wenger to kick off when it's his first failure to do it.

*The idiots on Arsenal TV don't know what's in store after Wenger*. They think a new man will come in and win the league and CL, I don't think it will be like that. If Wenger is struggling to compete then the next managers coming in after will also struggle unless there is a very different attitude to spending. 

 And by that I mean spending owners money in Chelsea-esque proportions, not spending responsibly like Wenger has been doing.
		
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Why are they idiots? I think you're being very disrespectful to those lads who put a lot of hard yards in travelling around Europe supporting/watching their team and that costs  a hell of a lot money to do that week in week out, while you and others slag them from the comfort of your armchair. 

They have as much right to question the manager/players  as any other fan has.


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## jp5 (Mar 18, 2017)

Wenger saying he's made his decision but won't tell anyone typifies the arrogance he runs the club with.

No-one expects Arsenal to go and win the PL CL double, but they do expect to be seeing progress.

I think the new manager could really struggle next year. Looks likely our best players will leave, left with many players not up to it on inflated salaries that other clubs won't match.

The time to go was at the end of the last contract. With the turbulence the big money teams have been through that was our chance to take advantage. Instead Leicester did.

Still we need a fresh approach, and may be a case of taking one step back to take two forward.


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## sawtooth (Mar 18, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Why are they idiots? I think you're being very disrespectful to those lads who put a lot of hard yards in travelling around Europe supporting/watching their team and that costs  a hell of a lot money to do that week in week out, while you and others slag them from the comfort of your armchair. 

They have as much right to question the manager/players  as any other fan has.
		
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Right to question? Have you seen any of the rants and banners? Some of it is disgusting and it's not the way to go about things.

Wenger has given everything for the club in 21 years and does not deserve that. He has more money than he can spend so it's not about the money, he would go out of Arsenal in a box if he could and I have no time for those idiots.


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## Fish (Mar 18, 2017)

jp5 said:



			Wenger saying he's made his decision but won't tell anyone typifies the arrogance he runs the club with.

No-one expects Arsenal to go and win the PL CL double, but they do expect to be seeing progress.

I think the new manager could really struggle next year. Looks likely our best players will leave, left with many players not up to it on inflated salaries that other clubs won't match.

The time to go was at the end of the last contract. With the turbulence the big money teams have been through that was our chance to take advantage. Instead Leicester did.

Still we need a fresh approach, and may be a case of taking one step back to take two forward.
		
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With an exodus of top players maybe it would be better without the distraction of Europe all together and rebuild focusing solely on the PL and getting rid of the waste at the bottom of the squad and replace with some cream on the top, creating a solid spine for the team and getting a true, lead by example leader/captain in.


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## Fish (Mar 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Right to question? Have you seen any of the rants and banners? Some of it is disgusting and it's not the way to go about things.

Wenger has given everything for the club in 21 years and does not deserve that. He has more money than he can spend so it's not about the money, he would go out of Arsenal in a box if he could and I have no time for those idiots.
		
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You mean you'd be happy if he stayed because of the past even if he carries on the way he has lately and goes down with the sinking ship!


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## sawtooth (Mar 18, 2017)

Fish said:



			You mean you'd be happy if he stayed because of the past even if he carries on the way he has lately and goes down with the sinking ship!
		
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If we miss top 4 this year and win nothing then he deserves a chance to put that right IMO. 1 miss in 21 years?!

I heard an Arsenal fan on the radio earlier close to tears not because of missing out on top 4 but facing the prospect of finishing below Spurs.

What a pathetic sod I thought. Has he already forgotten the past 20 years? Hating Wenger for letting it happen this year, really? What a disgrace and embarrassment to our club.

Yes I would be happy if he stayed.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Right to question? Have you seen any of the rants and banners? Some of it is disgusting and it's not the way to go about things.

Wenger has given everything for the club in 21 years and does not deserve that. He has more money than he can spend so it's not about the money, he would go out of Arsenal in a box if he could and I have no time for those idiots.
		
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Say what you like about those lads, they deserve better. It must be easy sitting in an armchair typing on a keyboard.

I have seen them, I don't agree with them all but never the less they're entitled to vent their anger. I don't like to see "manager out" banners  but to me it sounds like AW is holding that club back from progression. A new manager with fresh ideas, a few new face's will do no worse than what's currently being served up. 

Do you think those fans deserve to watch spineless performances week in week out?


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			If we miss top 4 this year and win nothing then he deserves a chance to put that right IMO. 1 miss in 21 years?!

I heard an Arsenal fan on the radio earlier close to tears not because of missing out on top 4 but facing the prospect of finishing below Spurs.

What a pathetic sod I thought. Has he already forgotten the past 20 years? Hating Wenger for letting it happen this year, really? What a disgrace and embarrassment to our club.

Yes I would be happy if he stayed.
		
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20 years?


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## Jensen (Mar 18, 2017)

Fish said:



			Great 2nd leg at the Bridge for the Chelsea Youth dispatching Spurs 7-1 so 9-2 over the 2 legs &#128077;
		
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And how many of that youth team will actually hold down a first team place


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## Fish (Mar 18, 2017)

Jensen said:



			And how many of that youth team will actually hold down a first team place
		
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Well based on those 2 performances none of yours will &#128514;&#128514;


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## Hobbit (Mar 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			If we miss top 4 this year and win nothing then he deserves a chance to put that right IMO. 1 miss in 21 years?!

I heard an Arsenal fan on the radio earlier close to tears not because of missing out on top 4 but facing the prospect of finishing below Spurs.

What a pathetic sod I thought. Has he already forgotten the past 20 years? Hating Wenger for letting it happen this year, really? What a disgrace and embarrassment to our club.

Yes I would be happy if he stayed.
		
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Its more than just missing out on 4th, which isn't definite yet anyway. Its about the manner in which Arsenal are missing out. Losing to sides that not so long ago would have been frightened to come out of their own half. Going down 10-2 on aggregate to a team that no so long ago would have struggled against Arsenal... one match of 5-1, it happens but two matches?

And look at this season and last. At one point last season it was in Arsenal's hands but they blew it, and only got second due to Spur's lack of maturity. This season they're seriously going backwards.

As for what Wenger has done in the past; I'm a Wenger fan and like to see Arsenal do well. But its time to say goodbye. If he is staying I'd give him till Christmas. Even spending the way he currently does, and without the distraction of the CL if they don't qualify, if there isn't signs of a resurgence I'd show him the door. If he has any doubts he can do it I'd hope he'd call it a day at the end of this season.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2017)

Just seen Kosceilny's defending for the 1st West Brom goal, it's a good job he never played in the 2nd halves against Bayern, they'd have conceded 10 if he'd defended like that 

Free header for the 3rd.  Shocking.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 18, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Just seen Kosceilny's defending for the 1st West Brom goal, it's a good job he never played in the 2nd halves against Bayern, they'd have conceded 10 if he'd defended like that 

Click to expand...

With all the money spent how have Arsenal,city & Liverpool managed to have such bad defences?


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## Fish (Mar 18, 2017)

Arsenal defended like an under 10's team (Shearer) &#128514;&#128514;


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## sawtooth (Mar 18, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Its more than just missing out on 4th, which isn't definite yet anyway. Its about the manner in which Arsenal are missing out. Losing to sides that not so long ago would have been frightened to come out of their own half. Going down 10-2 on aggregate to a team that no so long ago would have struggled against Arsenal... one match of 5-1, it happens but two matches?

And look at this season and last. At one point last season it was in Arsenal's hands but they blew it, and only got second due to Spur's lack of maturity. This season they're seriously going backwards.

As for what Wenger has done in the past; I'm a Wenger fan and like to see Arsenal do well. But its time to say goodbye. If he is staying I'd give him till Christmas. Even spending the way he currently does, and without the distraction of the CL if they don't qualify, if there isn't signs of a resurgence I'd show him the door. If he has any doubts he can do it I'd hope he'd call it a day at the end of this season.
		
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The way things are going I wouldn't be surprised if Wenger resigned before then. He can do without all this and go somewhere he is appreciated a lot more.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 18, 2017)

Great spot from the linesman to disallow the first Stoke goal for the push in the box. Got to admit I didn't see it on first viewing.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 19, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			With all the money spent how have Arsenal,city & Liverpool managed to have such bad defences?
		
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There's not many good ones around.
most have forgot how to tackle properly or never knew.
Standard of defending in the premier Leauge is poor that's why CL sides have no problems against English teams.


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## MegaSteve (Mar 19, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			The way things are going I wouldn't be surprised if Wenger resigned before then. He can do without all this and go somewhere he is appreciated a lot more.
		
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One of the marks of successful folk is acknowledging when it is time to step down... Sadly, it would appear, Arsene has let his opportunity slip by..


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## Junior (Mar 19, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			It was never just about money in the mid to late 90's, I'd say it's only really became about money over the last 10yrs when "investment" groups became owners.

Our owners are a prime example, much more interested in the P&L sheet as opposed to battling to become England's best again.
		
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This 100% ,  it's become a business first for a lot of owners.  The key differential is this.....

Fans want to bring in good players so that their team can win.  Owners want to bring in good players so the club makes more money by winning.


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## sawtooth (Mar 19, 2017)

Junior said:



			This 100% ,  it's become a business first for a lot of owners.  The key differential is this.....

Fans want to bring in good players so that their team can win.  Owners want to bring in good players so the club makes more money by winning.
		
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I don't think running a PL team is good investment do you?

Yes TV money has gone up enormously but most of that income goes straight out of the club with increased player fees and salaries.

Profitability is all over the place, some years a modest profit and others a loss. Especially those investing heavily trying to make the club successful. Losses can be huge.

I don't think for a second that Roman came into football to make money. How much of his 1 Billion + will he hope to get back?

Wenger is showing what success looks like trying to run a club successfully (using club funds to run itself and turning a profit YoY)

Going above and beyond that level of spending will require money from investors , money that most should expect to write off. Owners like RA won't have a problem with that as it's his train set, same applies to City Arab owners but other investors wont be as quick to throw their money away.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 19, 2017)

If you get relegated then you lose money. If you stay up then you can reap big money. Look at the Glazers at Utd, Arsenal owners being the obvious. You can draw money out in fees as they do or the value of the club simply increases and the money is made in the profit following a sale.

Chelsea and City spent big quickly in order to play with the big boys straight away. That is where their money went. Had they been prepared to take their time then they too would have made money. Unless you are a financial muppet, plenty around, there is lots of money to be made in the PL.


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## Jensen (Mar 19, 2017)

Arsene Wenger has really aged over the last couple of years, he looks tired


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## Hobbit (Mar 19, 2017)

Where who's money went?

Having a rich owner, several top class players and a fabulous ground are assets to be borrowed against, with the owner acting as guarantor in the eyes of the bank.

Having a great wedge of money in the bank is wasteful. Money should be used to make more money. That's how pretty much all businesses are run.

And in these days of almost zero interest rates for both borrowing and savings why on earth would anyone have money doing nothing.

It is rank bad management to by any club not to be investing in a club. Buying a Â£100m player means the club have a Â£100m asset. It's an asset, and a (part) debt that needs servicing, but providing it delivers it is giving an ROI(return on investment).

And a club as big as Arsenal is being badly managed. It's underperforming and is developing a reputation for being far too conservative, which will affect its pulling power.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 19, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Where who's money went?

Having a rich owner, several top class players and a fabulous ground are assets to be borrowed against, with the owner acting as guarantor in the eyes of the bank.

Having a great wedge of money in the bank is wasteful. Money should be used to make more money. That's how pretty much all businesses are run.

And in these days of almost zero interest rates for both borrowing and savings why on earth would anyone have money doing nothing.

It is rank bad management to by any club not to be investing in a club. Buying a Â£100m player means the club have a Â£100m asset. It's an asset, and a (part) debt that needs servicing, but providing it delivers it is giving an ROI(return on investment).

And a club as big as Arsenal is being badly managed. It's underperforming and is developing a reputation for being far too conservative, which will affect its pulling power.
		
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But the value of the club has increased and the share price risen which proves how succesful the shareholders are and how much money they've made.



And all without mentioning the football side, oh wait a minute, it's a football club we're discussing.

Arsenal, best spreadsheet in the PL


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## sawtooth (Mar 19, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			But the value of the club has increased and the share price risen which proves how succesful the shareholders are and how much money they've made.



And all without mentioning the football side, oh wait a minute, it's a football club we're discussing.

Arsenal, best spreadsheet in the PL
		
Click to expand...

Case in point at Everton. Let's see how far their owners/investors want to go to keep Lukaku.

My guess is not as far as he wants them to go hence he will part company. He will go somewhere where money is of no consequence.....Um I wonder where that might be?!

Of course Arsenal spreadsheet is excellent, it spends wisely and within its means. It's run like a proper business.

If you want success nowadays you need sugar daddy money or a miracle. The latter is very rare and short lived (Leicester).

Arsenal are being ridiculed for playing by the book from what I can see


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 19, 2017)

Lukaku will go if the offer is big enough. No question. Someone will have to over pay for him as he has two years left on his deal and that will allow the club to take some money for itself to improve its facilities, hopefully the bulk to re-invest in 2-3 top players to replace him and strengthen elsewhere. I'd like to keep him but if he wants to go then you need to do the best for the club. Holding him for two years, having him sulk and then get no money at the end to re-invest in new players would be bad for business and for the football side. No shame in selling a player as long as you do something good with the proceeds.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 19, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Case in point at Everton. Let's see how far their owners/investors want to go to keep Lukaku.

My guess is not as far as he wants them to go hence he will part company. He will go somewhere where money is of no consequence.....Um I wonder where that might be?!

Of course Arsenal spreadsheet is excellent, it spends wisely and within its means. It's run like a proper business.

If you want success nowadays you need sugar daddy money or a miracle. The latter is very rare and short lived (Leicester).

Arsenal are being ridiculed for playing by the book from what I can see
		
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A few times when discussing the finance side you've thrown Utd into the mix. They dominated for how long? And they don't have a sugar daddy. In fact they have at times been hindered by their owners.

if you currently have Â£200 in the coffers, from a business point. That's dead money. Either give it to shareholders as dividends. Or spend it. Surely that's what a business would do?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 19, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Case in point at Everton. Let's see how far their owners/investors want to go to keep Lukaku.

My guess is not as far as he wants them to go hence he will part company. He will go somewhere where money is of no consequence.....Um I wonder where that might be?!

Of course Arsenal spreadsheet is excellent, it spends wisely and within its means. It's run like a proper business.

If you want success nowadays you need sugar daddy money or a miracle. The latter is very rare and short lived (Leicester).

Arsenal are being ridiculed for playing by the book from what I can see
		
Click to expand...

He will also want to win trophies and play in the CL - he can earn money still at Everton but you will continue to ignore the fact that he will also want to win trophies and play in the CL - winning trophies is a big reason why players leave Arsenal


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## Old Skier (Mar 19, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He will also want to win trophies and play in the CL - he can earn money still at Everton but you will continue to ignore the fact that he will also want to win trophies and play in the CL - winning trophies is a big reason why players leave Arsenal
		
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And Liverpool find it hard to lay their hands on many top top class players.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 19, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Case in point at Everton. Let's see how far their owners/investors want to go to keep Lukaku.

My guess is not as far as he wants them to go hence he will part company. He will go somewhere where money is of no consequence.....Um I wonder where that might be?!

Of course Arsenal spreadsheet is excellent, it spends wisely and within its means. It's run like a proper business.

If you want success nowadays you need sugar daddy money or a miracle. The latter is very rare and short lived (Leicester).

Arsenal are being ridiculed for playing by the book from what I can see
		
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What book are you playing by? Is it some magical nirvana that doesn't exist? You have the richest man in Russia as your second biggest shareholder and you go on about sugar daddies!!! 

You don't compete with Everton, your rivals are Chelsea and City, I'd be more than happy for Lukaku to go to another club so long as the money goes back in to the club and we move forward.
You are happy with mediocrity so long as you have a healthy bank balance.

I'd rather aim for the stars than stay on planet earth


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 19, 2017)

Why do people keep bringing LPool into these discussions?

Their fans are not doubting their shortfalls,

Sawtooth is!!


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## Old Skier (Mar 19, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Why do people keep bringing LPool into these discussions?

Their fans are not doubting their shortfalls,

Sawtooth is!!
		
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Apologise, I didn't realised it had turned into an Arsenal thread.


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## MegaSteve (Mar 19, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Why do people keep bringing LPool into these discussions?
		
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Is this a serious question ...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 19, 2017)

Old Skier said:



			Apologise, I didn't realist it had turned into an Arsenal thread.
		
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I'm not saying that, there are 19 other trams in the PL and as soon as we discuss Arsenal people bring LPool as a counter argument, LPool are not one of the recent big 4, Arsenals rivals are Chelsea, City and Utd, they are the Clubs Sawtooth mentions, so bringing a lesser club doesn't prove anything.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 19, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			Is this a serious question ...
		
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Badly worded, was trying to keep personalities out of it.


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## Hobbit (Mar 19, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			But the value of the club has increased and the share price risen which proves how succesful the shareholders are and how much money they've made.



And all without mentioning the football side, oh wait a minute, it's a football club we're discussing.

Arsenal, best spreadsheet in the PL
		
Click to expand...

But what is the value of the club? If you buy 5 players at Â£50m you've increased the value of the club by Â£250m less the cost of purchase and the cost of salaries. If you buy 5 players at Â£100m each you've increased the value of the club by Â£500m less costs etc.

You've also bought 5 players that will increase your earnings by a greater amount by buying the more expensive and hopefully better players. 

This is the crux of EVA(economic value added) which determines your credit rating and earnings potential. The larger your EVA, THE most important indicator financially as it incorporates every aspect of worth, the more attractive you are to banks(investors).

Who would Barclays want to invest in the most? The company with the larger EVA.

Arsenal are relatively risk free, which is great for pension fund managers, but pension fund managers also spread their betting by including businesses with a greater risk for a greater return. But is Chelsea and City really a greater risk? And the answer to that is how the business itself mitigates risk v success.  Itigation includes selling, which Chelsea have done exceptionally well, unlike City.

Arsenal are the cuddly corner shop business and Chelsea are a Harrods. Corner shops ultimately become less successful than chains. 

Arsenal have a choice, and have chosen to be conservative. Nothing wrong with that providing you're happy for moderate success.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 19, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			But what is the value of the club? If you buy 5 players at Â£50m you've increased the value of the club by Â£250m less the cost of purchase and the cost of salaries. If you buy 5 players at Â£100m each you've increased the value of the club by Â£500m less costs etc.

You've also bought 5 players that will increase your earnings by a greater amount by buying the more expensive and hopefully better players. 

This is the crux of EVA(economic value added) which determines your credit rating and earnings potential. The larger your EVA, THE most important indicator financially as it incorporates every aspect of worth, the more attractive you are to banks(investors).

Who would Barclays want to invest in the most? The company with the larger EVA.

Arsenal are relatively risk free, which is great for pension fund managers, but pension fund managers also spread their betting by including businesses with a greater risk for a greater return. But is Chelsea and City really a greater risk? And the answer to that is how the business itself mitigates risk v success.  Itigation includes selling, which Chelsea have done exceptionally well, unlike City.

Arsenal are the cuddly corner shop business and Chelsea are a Harrods. Corner shops ultimately become less successful than chains. 

Arsenal have a choice, and have chosen to be conservative. Nothing wrong with that providing you're happy for moderate success.
		
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I was being sarcastic


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## Old Skier (Mar 19, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			so bringing a lesser club doesn't prove anything.
		
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4v5 or even 6th, not so much a lesser club really.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 19, 2017)

Old Skier said:



			4v5 or even 6th, not so much a lesser club really.
		
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Sawtooths fall back is consitent top 4, have LPool matched that recently? No, 
Looking at the table today is pointless.


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## jp5 (Mar 19, 2017)

Fish said:



			With an exodus of top players maybe it would be better without the distraction of Europe all together and rebuild focusing solely on the PL and getting rid of the waste at the bottom of the squad and replace with some cream on the top, creating a solid spine for the team and getting a true, lead by example leader/captain in.
		
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Yep, you can see the benefit that Chelsea have this year and Leicester had last by not playing midweek. Europa League would be the worst of both worlds!

Whoever comes in is going to have an almighty rebuilding job on their hands, could take a long time. You're right that we need to reinstate leaders in the team, something Wenger has been keen to avoid presumably to avoid any challenges to his power.

You can tell that the players are starting to get fed up now though. Many have woefully under achieved compared to their potential, obviously arent getting the coaching they need at the club. Just look at the difference in Ramsey and Wilshere for club vs country. 

Can't see Sanchez staying, and players like Ox must be wondering if they can develop better elsewhere.


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## sawtooth (Mar 19, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			What book are you playing by? Is it some magical nirvana that doesn't exist? You have the richest man in Russia as your second biggest shareholder and you go on about sugar daddies!!! 

You don't compete with Everton, your rivals are Chelsea and City, I'd be more than happy for Lukaku to go to another club so long as the money goes back in to the club and we move forward.
You are happy with mediocrity so long as you have a healthy bank balance.

I'd rather aim for the stars than stay on planet earth
		
Click to expand...

We don't use any of their cash to buy success.

Explain how selling your most prized asset (20 goal plus a season) man is helping you to progress? Does your club have no ambition? Pay him what he wants and keep him,  it's that simple . Right? 

While you're at it add a few more like him in Summer then you might actually start getting somewhere.

Don't settle for mediocrity.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 19, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			We don't use any of their cash to buy success.

Explain how selling your most prized asset (20 goal plus a season) man is helping you to progress? Does your club have no ambition? Pay him what he wants and keep him,  it's that simple . Right? 

While you're at it add a few more like him in Summer then you might actually start getting somewhere.

Don't settle for mediocrity.
		
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Were not, who's our major shareholder? Oh yes that's right the previous Arsenal bloke who got fed up of no ambition.

We will keep Lukaku and improve next season, how backwards have Arsenal gone when you're level with us.

So if you have Billionaires as major shareholders can you explain exactly what they are doing then? because if they're not spending their money they are simply taking your money out of the club.


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## MegaSteve (Mar 19, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Arsenal have a choice, and have chosen to be conservative. Nothing wrong with that providing you're happy for moderate success.
		
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My take on it is, that Arsenal have the benefit of two 'wealthy benefactors'... However, neither appears to be willing to open their wallet just in case the other might reap a reward... And, seemingly AW is ready to put up with their 'conservative' approach...


And finally, if I was still spending a lot of my money to be on the terraces week in week out I'd most probably be a lot more condemning of the way the club is being run...


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 19, 2017)

Just seen the Stoke penalty decision,the ref's had a mare there.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 19, 2017)

If Utd win europa & finish outside the top 4 we'll have 5 clubs in the CL. 
What happens if Utd win europa and finish top 4?


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## Kellfire (Mar 19, 2017)

Looked like Gestese bit or tried to bite Bailly there. Could be an interesting one for the FA to sort.


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## Kellfire (Mar 19, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			If Utd win europa & finish outside the top 4 we'll have 5 clubs in the CL. 
What happens if Utd win europa and finish top 4?
		
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I don't think the CL spot transfers down.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 19, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			I don't think the CL spot transfers down.
		
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Didn't think so.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 19, 2017)

It is rocking pre game in mary dees.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 19, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			It is rocking pre game in mary dees.
		
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Tashyboy prediction?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 19, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I'm feeling very dizzy being so high up the League. Best enjoy it while it lasts :rofl:
		
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Nearly got 24hrs :rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 19, 2017)

Otamendi is such a bad player.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 19, 2017)

The scary thing is city need to buy a new keeper, 2 full backs and another centre half. Forget the rest of the team, those 4 positions need urgent attention. You have to look at who is recruiting those positions as for all they have bought well midfield up they have had a mare behind.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 19, 2017)

Toure should be in the bath for that Red every day in the prem.
first tackle from a Liverpool player and a yellow.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 19, 2017)

As Sterling got any control over his legs?


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## anotherdouble (Mar 19, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			As Sterling got any control over his legs?
		
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He is poor. Even worse than Walcott


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 19, 2017)

His delivery is really poor. Consistently fails to pick out his man. He also has jelly legs, as has been pointed out.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 19, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Toure should be in the bath for that Red every day in the prem.
first tackle from a Liverpool player and a yellow.
		
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City should have had a penalty.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 19, 2017)

There are some chances being missed here. A few weeks ago it looked like Pep didn't fancy Aguero. Who on earth would you buy to replace him and how much would he cost? Surely he will be there next season.


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## Slime (Mar 19, 2017)

'mon City, just one more goal please.


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## huds1475 (Mar 19, 2017)

Slime said:



			'mon City, just one more goal please.
		
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Considering games played think a draw is a better result, keeps both teams in range.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 19, 2017)

Decent game to watch but both teams missed some right sitters & the standard of play was shocking imo.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 19, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Decent game to watch but both teams missed some right sitters & the standard of play was shocking imo.
		
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Agreed. Both had chances to win and didn't take them. Thought City's ball retention was as bad as it was in Monaco midweek and something the top teams will take advantage off. Interesting if United win their two games in hand for the top four places and if they do makes Arsenal's task very hard. Spurs win again and would be a good achievement for them to finish second. Only winner from the City draw is Chelsea


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 19, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Agreed. Both had chances to win and didn't take them. Thought City's ball retention was as bad as it was in Monaco midweek and something the top teams will take advantage off. Interesting if United win their two games in hand for the top four places and if they do makes Arsenal's task very hard. Spurs win again and would be a good achievement for them to finish second. Only winner from the City draw is Chelsea
		
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Wasn't too bad for UTD


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 19, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Wasn't too bad for UTD
		
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True but they won't have an overall say on the title from their position. Dropping two more points today makes it so hard for City to catch Chelsea now


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 19, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			True but they won't have an overall say on the title from their position. Dropping two more points today makes it so hard for City to catch Chelsea now
		
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Homer the title race is over,it's all about top 4 now &#128556;


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## Stuart_C (Mar 19, 2017)

Disappointed we never won but I thought overall we played well. 

Lallana's miss was shocking.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 19, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Homer the title race is over,it's all about top 4 now &#128556;
		
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I know realistically it is, although in theory it isn't a done deal yet. What about the top four then. I will go Chelsea, Spurs, City and United in that order


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 19, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Disappointed we never won but I thought overall we played well. 

Lallana's miss was shocking.
		
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Sums it up well - two teams going for the win with some great attacking moves ruined by poor finishing - Lallanas was shocking. Going to be a great finish to the season


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## Stuart_C (Mar 19, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sums it up well - two teams going for the win with some great attacking moves ruined by poor finishing - Lallanas was shocking. Going to be a great finish to the season
		
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What's most annoying is We had a chance to kill that game off when they were struggling and never took it. 

I thought Can was excellent, possibly his best game he's had but Gini should've been motm. He was superb in the middle of the park.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 19, 2017)

Well am back from the game and to say it was an odd un is a massive understatement. Just had a look on BBC sport and they were raving about it. Maybe as a neutral it was fantastic. But as a City or Liverpool fan, it was 90 mins of frustration. Some world class footballers combined classy football with Sunday league bloopers. Some of the passing, shooting, defending, tackling etc was woeful. Most players contributed to that, none more than YaYa, who proved today he was not worthy of a new contract. His Agent said he could go to Utd. God I hope so.
For two teams in the top four, the technical side of the game was poor.
City were 7/10 at best but Liverpool. I have never seen as many long balls/ route one played by any team all year. You would of thought Fat Sam was the manager. Are Liverpool like that every game or was it a tactic.
Mane, he looks a class act, a real class act. Cannot see how Sturridge would ever get in that team.
as has been said, think the top two are now decided with City Liverpool and the rags fighting for the other two spots.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 19, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Well am back from the game and to say it was an odd un is a massive understatement. Just had a look on BBC sport and they were raving about it. Maybe as a neutral it was fantastic. But as a City or Liverpool fan, it was 90 mins of frustration. Some world class footballers combined classy football with Sunday league bloopers. Some of the passing, shooting, defending, tackling etc was woeful. Most players contributed to that, none more than YaYa, who proved today he was not worthy of a new contract. His Agent said he could go to Utd. God I hope so.
For two teams in the top four, the technical side of the game was poor.
City were 7/10 at best but Liverpool. I have never seen as many long balls/ route one played by any team all year. You would of thought Fat Sam was the manager. Are Liverpool like that every game or was it a tactic.
Mane, he looks a class act, a real class act. Cannot see how Sturridge would ever get in that team.
as has been said, think the top two are now decided with City Liverpool and the rags fighting for the other two spots.
		
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I can't remember many long balls but with your dodgy defence I'd say it was a tactic

Sturridge won't get in tha side because he's never fit.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 19, 2017)

Do you think they could have gone long to miss your midfield? Not being sarky, genuine question. I was at Liverpool v Arsenal the other week and everything went on the floor through the midfield.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 19, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Some world class footballers combined classy football with Sunday league bloopers. Some of the passing, shooting, defending, tackling etc was woeful. Most players contributed to that, none more than YaYa, who proved today he was not worthy of a new contract. His Agent said he could go to Utd. God I hope so.
		
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Interesting how the view from someone at the game is different from someone who (I presume) was watching it on TV and commenting. I followed the game via BBC live text updates and they were raving about Yaya running the game in the first half. They did say he looked knackered just before he was taken off but up until then it seemed as though he was one of the best players on the pitch - I am just basing that on the live text as I didn't see any of the game.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 19, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do you think they could have gone long to miss your midfield? Not being sarky, genuine question. I was at Liverpool v Arsenal the other week and everything went on the floor through the midfield.
		
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That is what I was wondering, it was mainly in the first half. The second half Liverpool played some good flowing football through the same midfield. I certainly saw enough to not get on Klopps back. As much as it was a scrappy game. I thought it was the best game I have seen from a City keeper this year.

Sat in family section with young Bradley Tash. A guy shouts " You F*****g ****", young Bradley says to Nanna Tash " Nanna your not allowed to say f*****g, it's a naughty word". Five mins later a bloke shouts " you bloody great Poof" Young Bradley says " Poofs another naughty word Nanna". He is four
It's  hard trying to keep a straight face.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 19, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Interesting how the view from someone at the game is different from someone who (I presume) was watching it on TV and commenting. I followed the game via BBC live text updates and they were raving about Yaya running the game in the first half. They did say he looked knackered just before he was taken off but up until then it seemed as though he was one of the best players on the pitch - I am just basing that on the live text as I didn't see any of the game.
		
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His energy levels have gone and his tackle that got him a booking could of been red. At times the game just went around him.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 19, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			That is what I was wondering, it was mainly in the first half. The second half Liverpool played some good flowing football through the same midfield. I certainly saw enough to not get on Klopps back. As much as it was a scrappy game. I thought it was the best game I have seen from a City keeper this year.

Sat in family section with young Bradley Tash. A guy shouts " You F*****g ****", young Bradley says to Nanna Tash " Nanna your not allowed to say f*****g, it's a naughty word". Five mins later a bloke shouts " you bloody great Poof" Young Bradley says " Poofs another naughty word Nanna". He is four
It's  hard trying to keep a straight face.
		
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On the plus side good to see him have a firm grasp on right and wrong. You should have let him tell the bloke he was naughty!


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## Tashyboy (Mar 19, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			On the plus side good to see him have a firm grasp on right and wrong. You should have let him tell the bloke he was naughty!
		
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Am as deaf as a post Homer and it was Missis T that told me. Her shoulders were goin like the clappers. Not only does he know right from wrong, he knows how to shovel pop, chips, lollies, love hearts, kinder chocolate and Haribos down his throat plus mints on the way home.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 19, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Am as deaf as a post Homer and it was Missis T that told me. Her shoulders were goin like the clappers. Not only does he know right from wrong, he knows how to shovel pop, chips, lollies, love hearts, kinder chocolate and Haribos down his throat plus mints on the way home.
		
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Bet he's fun trying to get to bed with all that in him. Sad how idiots like that are allowed into family sections and the stewards do nothing about it


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 19, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			His energy levels have gone and his tackle that got him a booking could of been red. At times the game just went around him.
		
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I forgot about that tackle. They did say that it could/should have been a red. But apart from that it was all positive about him.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 19, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			I forgot about that tackle. They did say that it could/should have been a red. But apart from that it was all positive about him.
		
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When I talk to a pal about City he won't have a bad word said about him. He reckons that YaYa dragged City over the line to two titles, plus scored the winner v the rags in a FA semi final at Wembley. He reckons fans have short memories when it comes to YaYa. Even he thinks YaYa is well past his best. but he is not the only one


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 19, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			That is what I was wondering, it was mainly in the first half. The second half Liverpool played some good flowing football through the same midfield. I certainly saw enough to not get on Klopps back. As much as it was a scrappy game. I thought it was the best game I have seen from a City keeper this year.
		
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I only saw the second half on tv and can't remember any long balls from LPool apart from a couple of clearances from the back, they were breaking up your attacks and playing out along the floor 99% of the time.

Was fun for a nuetral and either team could feel they had dropped 2 points or gained 1 at the end.

Klopp gave a very fair honest interview after the match, good to see the honesty.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 19, 2017)

A very nervous frustrating game some really good football from both teams .
Some shocking finishing .
Sterling had one of his Harry Kewell games (eh Tash)
his and Llalanas misses were abysmal.
Keepers played well.
Best game from Can not my favourite.
mane and Aguero awesome.
Toure should have been red!
fair result but could have been 5-5.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 19, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			A very nervous frustrating game some really good football from both teams .
Some shocking finishing .
Sterling had one of his Harry Kewell games (eh Tash)
his and Llalanas misses were abysmal.
Keepers played well.
Best game from Can not my favourite.
mane and Aguero awesome.
Toure should have been red!
fair result but could have been 5-5.
		
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it wasnt just Sterling, Sane had a shocker.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 19, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			it wasnt just Sterling, Sane had a shocker.
		
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De Brune showed him how to cross a ball brilliant player .
Sterling went missing in second half.
good game though


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## Tashyboy (Mar 20, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			On the plus side good to see him have a firm grasp on right and wrong. You should have let him tell the bloke he was naughty!
		
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Forgot to say, when nana showed him the score behind us, he saw Liverpool and said the double OO in Liverpool is from the "Mysterons" in Captain Scarlet. Does that mean Liverpool are from the dark side?


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 20, 2017)

When I was at Anfield the other week there was a nutter in the row behind who swore and abused Arsenal for 90 minutes. It was non stop swearing. Even the other fans were bored of him. He was the worse I have come across but most grounds have people swearing on a pretty constant basis. Question, what is the point of the stewards? What are they paid for? Why aren't they going to these people and asking them to stop or leave? It annoys me.


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## The Evertonian (Mar 20, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			When I was at Anfield the other week there was a nutter in the row behind who swore and abused Arsenal for 90 minutes. It was non stop swearing. Even the other fans were bored of him. He was the worse I have come across but most grounds have people swearing on a pretty constant basis. Question, what is the point of the stewards? What are they paid for? Why aren't they going to these people and asking them to stop or leave? It annoys me.
		
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Hey LT...rumours are rife of a big announcement regarding the new stadium, apparently Thursday is the day. I'm looking forward to hearing what they have to say.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 20, 2017)

Good stuff. I was looking at the Echo online on Saturday and the council and Peel Developments were talking about other developments that would happen on the same site. They were talking openly about the stadium being there. Not if but when. I was quite surprised at the language being so open as though the deal was done. I hope the design keeps it atmospheric and as others have discussed the tough part is improving access around the area. How much, when will it be built? All every exciting times.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 20, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			When I was at Anfield the other week there was a nutter in the row behind who swore and abused Arsenal for 90 minutes. It was non stop swearing. Even the other fans were bored of him. He was the worse I have come across but most grounds have people swearing on a pretty constant basis. Question, what is the point of the stewards? What are they paid for? Why aren't they going to these people and asking them to stop or leave? It annoys me.
		
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LT, I know it probably goes against the grain of fans slagging off there own, But there's a few City fans of late that have proper got on my tits.
1, watched the home game v Monaco in another part of the ground and a couple of City fans were giving these Monaco fans some serious grief and threatened to cave there skulls in. They looked terrified. Made you feel proper proud being a Manc especially after the hospitality shown to us from the fans in Monaco.
2, had a good old natter with Steve Mcmanamna on a couple of occasions in Monaco. Second time at the airport. He was the last to get on the bus to go to the plane and was getting some unwarranted crap of some City fans. He missed ours and got on the next, but the conversation went along the lines that it would of kicked off coz some wanted to give him some crap but others said it was not goin to happen. 
There is a belief that city fans don't get Champions league football and I for one will go along with that. 
Re stewards, totally agree.
One other thing, re the comments that Peel holdings are involved in the development of Evertons new ground. I knew they have massive land investments in Liverpool. But them Tossers sucked my company dry and were instrumental in the land being separated from Coal Mining so my pension went tits up. Twice.
If they are involved they are only in it for themselves. 
Hope it works out well for you Evertonians.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 20, 2017)

Developers are ALWAYS only in it for themselves. No favours expected from Peel.

Disappointed to hear the comments about those fans but I suspect every club has some the majority would rather didn't bother coming. Football seems to attract them unfortunately.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 20, 2017)

Just having a mull over citys home form this year RE City drawing all of there six games at home. There home form is poor, very poor. Away form is excellent. But the Spuds who have an excellent home record quite frankly are atrocious away from home. Both stats have cost both clubs the chance of this years title.


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## Kellfire (Mar 20, 2017)

Or.... United's home form have cost us the title...


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## Papas1982 (Mar 20, 2017)

Or, realistically. 

You simply haven't been been good enough.....

Chelseas form has been better than most home and away. Improving yours would simply have closed the gap. And that's the case for all the teams below them.


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## MegaSteve (Mar 20, 2017)

Having an over the hill manager has cost us the chance of winning our usual fourth place... 

Apparently ...


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## Tashyboy (Mar 21, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Or, realistically. 

You simply haven't been been good enough.....

Chelseas form has been better than most home and away. Improving yours would simply have closed the gap. And that's the case for all the teams below them.
		
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i think the point I was trying to make but not quite well is how can city get it so right away from home and Spurs cannot and vice versa. At the other end of the table, how can Burnley be good at home yet only pick up three points at home.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 21, 2017)

Tashy, I have never understood that about football. I'd love to ask a pro why the difference exists. Why do managers and players change set up, tactics and mind set purely because you are playing at a different ground?


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## Fish (Mar 21, 2017)

I notice Man Utd have let Bastian Schweinsteiger join MLS side Chicago Fire with immediate effect.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39336934


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 21, 2017)

They weren't playing him, best to get his wages off the books. I don't know if they didn't give him a chance or whether his legs had gone and he was a bad buy. For Bayern and Germany however he was immense and that is how he will be viewed in football. The MLS is a nice wind up to his career and a top up to his pension.


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## User62651 (Mar 21, 2017)

Didn't understand this one, how he went from the heights of winning world cup in 2014 as Germany captain and very influential champions league winner in 2013/finalist in 2012 to so poor by 2015. Bayern got out at the right time I think, Van Gaal wanted a marquee siging but Bayern must have known he was finished physically so cashed in, poor from ManU. He's only 32 now, for a midfielder that's often not so old these days.
Sad he couldn't hit the heights in EPL and Mourinho didn't give him much of run for someone who was formerly so good, really think he wanted to play for ManU and be sucessful. Seems like a classy guy too. Good luck to him.


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## Fish (Mar 21, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Didn't understand this one, how he went from the heights of winning world cup in 2014 as Germany captain and very influential champions league winner in 2013/finalist in 2012 to so poor by 2015. Bayern got out at the right time I think, Van Gaal wanted a marquee siging but Bayern must have known he was finished physically so cashed in, poor from ManU. He's only 32 now, for a midfielder that's often not so old these days.
Sad he couldn't hit the heights in EPL and Mourinho didn't give him much of run for someone who was formerly so good, really think he wanted to play for ManU and be sucessful. Seems like a classy guy too. Good luck to him.
		
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It's not always just about 'on the pitch', I bet he returned some good value in shirt sales, commercially he was possibly a good signing :mmm:


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## User62651 (Mar 21, 2017)

Fish said:



			It's not always just about 'on the pitch', I bet he returned some good value in shirt sales, commercially he was possibly a good signing :mmm:
		
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Probably right, I did see the odd kid in ManU kit with Schweinsteiger on it, even up here. It surprises me that in a professional squad of limited size you can carry a dead weight just because he was once a 'name' in order to sell shirts. Would need to be a lot of shirts for a 5m a year player wage. At Â£50 a shirt that'd be 100,000 shirts I think.
Beckham at Real was arguably in that mould and he was only 24 or 25 I think when he went, so the practice must work.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 21, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Tashy, I have never understood that about football. I'd love to ask a pro why the difference exists. Why do managers and players change set up, tactics and mind set purely because you are playing at a different ground?
		
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When Stoke played City, they had everyone behind the ball and it was a painful game. They tried hitting on the break.
Liverpool was a totally differant game. Still a draw.
Everton a draw. Totally differant.
Middlesboro, again totally differant.
The only thing in common was City never took there chances.

it all equals frustration.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 21, 2017)

Fish said:



			I notice Man Utd have let Bastian Schweinsteiger join MLS side Chicago Fire with immediate effect.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39336934

Click to expand...

Not surprised but sad as Mourinho didn't give him a chance and clearly didn't think he had a future. In fact he had been made to train away from the first team until he was forced to recall Shweinsteiger to cover injuries. I think he was a great player for Germany and Bayern and perhaps came over to the PL a season or two too late to make a real impact


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## richy (Mar 22, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Probably right, I did see the odd kid in ManU kit with Schweinsteiger on it, even up here. It surprises me that in a professional squad of limited size you can carry a dead weight just because he was once a 'name' in order to sell shirts. Would need to be a lot of shirts for a 5m a year player wage. At Â£50 a shirt that'd be 100,000 shirts I think.
Beckham at Real was arguably in that mould and he was only 24 or 25 I think when he went, so the practice must work.
		
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Would you believe he was 32?


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 22, 2017)

He's had a tough paper round.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 22, 2017)

Just been announced Ronnie Moran has passed away. 

RIP Ronnie me man, think Liverpool have lost a gud un there


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 22, 2017)

I grew up in the 80's and even though I was a blue it was quite clear that the Liverpool boot room was something special and the likes of Paisley, Fagan, Moran and Evans were all fundamentally decent people with immense football knowledge. You did not hear bad stories about any of them. Ronnie Moran lived the dream and was hugely respected. Only Roy left now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 22, 2017)

Very sad news to lose one of English Football and possibly European Footballs greatest Coaches - he was there through all the good and bad years and every single player who was coached by him or even spoke to him has nothing but great words about him. 

RIP


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 22, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He's had a tough paper round.
		
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Have you seen who he's married to?


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 22, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Have you seen who he's married to?
		
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I have now. Do you think she has aged him? Great way to go haggard &#128513;.


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## Slime (Mar 22, 2017)

England are giving a good account of themselves .................... so far.
They could do with a goal for their efforts.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 22, 2017)

Slime said:



			England are giving a good account of themselves .................... so far.
They could do with a goal for their efforts.
		
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Think Germany have been poor and we should be in front. We may regret those misses


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## richy (Mar 22, 2017)

England fans are an embarrassment. Booing the German national anthem, singing war related songs. 

Was a bit different when the Russian fans chased them all over France at the Euros.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 22, 2017)

richy said:



			England fans are an embarrassment. Booing the German national anthem, singing war related songs. 

Was a bit different when the Russian fans chased them all over France at the Euros.
		
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And when they kick them all over Russia (if we get there). Think that will sadly be carnage from a hooligan perspective and take away from the event, especially if the team (if we get there) finally do well


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## sawtooth (Mar 22, 2017)

Great strike from Podo there but you have to blame nancy Cahill for turning his back.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 22, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I have now. Do you think she has aged him? Great way to go haggard &#128513;.
		
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Don't know,but the boy done good &#128522;


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 22, 2017)

Funny how so many millionaire footballers do well on that front &#128513;


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 22, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Great strike from Podo there but you have to blame nancy Cahill for turning his back.
		
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I assume that you would also class Koscielny as a "nancy" as well then?......


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## sawtooth (Mar 22, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			I assume that you would also class Koscielny as a "nancy" as well then?......

View attachment 22300

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Yes I do only a few pros take a whack with a ball nowadays and it annoys the life out of me. It's a widespread issue and you see cases every week 

Cahill stays facing the man the ball hits him and goal is prevented. Simple as that.


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## fundy (Mar 22, 2017)

what do you make of how Podolski was treated at Arsenal sawtooth (yes this is a loaded question)


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 22, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yes I do only a few pros take a whack with a ball nowadays and it annoys the life out of me. It's a widespread issue and you see cases every week 

Cahill stays facing the man the ball hits him and goal is prevented. Simple as that.
		
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That's good then. Just checking it wasn't double standards. Wasn't having a pop at you or at Arsenal with that post. Would have found a picture for the team of anybody that had posted the same thing regardless of the team they supported.

P.S. Oh and by the way, I agree with you about defenders not wanting to put their body in the way of the ball.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 22, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			That's good then. Just checking it wasn't double standards. Wasn't having a pop at you or at Arsenal with that post. Would have found a picture for the team of anybody that had posted the same thing regardless of the team they supported.

P.S. Oh and by the way, I agree with you about defenders not wanting to put their body in the way of the ball.
		
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Its been going on for so long it's just the way they all are now. Cantona's goal in the cup final was the beginning of the end for me. Was it the spice boys? All over em wobbling legs at it instead of a whack in the nuts.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 22, 2017)

richy said:



			England fans are an embarrassment. Booing the German national anthem, singing war related songs. 

Was a bit different when the Russian fans chased them all over France at the Euros.
		
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Classy bunch.


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## sawtooth (Mar 22, 2017)

fundy said:



			what do you make of how Podolski was treated at Arsenal sawtooth (yes this is a loaded question)
		
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On the face of it he looks to have been harshly treated by Wenger but there's always two sides to every story. I don't think anyone really knows what went on there.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 22, 2017)

Thought it was a good performance. Bit like city though that they could not take there chances.


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## Slime (Mar 22, 2017)

Surely, turning your back when someone's about to unleash in your direction is purely instinct.
Can that be trained out of a player?


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 22, 2017)

Slime said:



			Surely, turning your back when someone's about to unleash in your direction is purely instinct.
Can that be trained out of a player?
		
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Try watching it in slow motion and see when he actually turns in relation to the ball position.  Quite enlightening.


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## Fish (Mar 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Great strike from Podo there but you have to blame nancy Cahill for turning his back.
		
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You really need to get your facts right before posting utter rubbish, no doubt just to have a dig at Cahill and Chelsea!

Cahill never turned away until AFTER the ball had passed him because the ball was curled to the side of his body/head, he stayed full frontal until the ball had passed him.

Facing the ball



Still facing the ball



Still facing the ball



Still facing the ball which is now feet away



Still facing forward and the ball has passed him



The movement of Cahill is AFTER the ball has passed him, his movement prior is minimal                    and would have made no difference to a well struck curled shot and goal!


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## USER1999 (Mar 23, 2017)

fundy said:



			what do you make of how Podolski was treated at Arsenal sawtooth (yes this is a loaded question)
		
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I think he was never going to fit into the team, and remains a part of Arsenals flawed transfer policy. If a complete shambles can be called a policy?


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## Fish (Mar 23, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			I think he was never going to fit into the team, and remains a part of Arsenals flawed transfer policy. If a complete shambles can be called a policy?
		
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Strong rumours, and there only that, that he's staying, more so if they don't make top 4 as he doesn't want to leave under those circumstances.  So the Wenger Out crews need to hope for a top 4 spot to change his decision.

If he was to stay, what do you think will be the impact on season ticket sales and match day tickets in general, Arsenal's gate receipts is a fundamental part of their revenue in comparison to other revenue streams?


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## USER1999 (Mar 23, 2017)

I dont think the ticket sales will dip much, there are plenty of rich tourists waiting to buy.

Its more can he fix the issues, to stop the atmosphere going a bit toxic. They already need a left back, a new keeper, and a proper dm. If they lose Sanchez, Ozil, and Ox, thats a lot of replacements. Esp given Arsenal wont be box office, and losing your best players sends out the wrong message.

To me, if he signs a new contract, he could be sacked by Christmas. That would be a sad ending.

The end of this season is going to be a car crash though. Tough run in, and the players dont look like they are bothered.


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## sawtooth (Mar 23, 2017)

Fish said:



			You really need to get your facts right before posting utter rubbish, no doubt just to have a dig at Cahill and Chelsea!

Cahill never turned away until AFTER the ball had passed him because the ball was curled to the side of his body/head, he stayed full frontal until the ball had passed him.

Facing the ball
View attachment 22301


Still facing the ball
View attachment 22302


Still facing the ball
View attachment 22303


Still facing the ball which is now feet away
View attachment 22304


Still facing forward and the ball has passed him
View attachment 22305


The movement of Cahill is AFTER the ball has passed him, his movement prior is minimal                    and would have made no difference to a well struck curled shot and goal!
		
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Ha ha this is hilarious , it has nothing to do with Chelsea.I would have said the same no matter who the player was.

Fact is Cahill would have prevented a goal if he closed down instead of bottling it. Not alone though a lot of people do it, it's this generation and the way things are going.

With that said I saw some pretty heroic defending by Lincoln players the other week. Real men throwing bodies in front of the ball not frightened of having a stinger or getting a ball in the kisser. 

Say what you like but Cahill was more concerned with self preservation than defending as well as he could. 

The sad thing is he would have done the same if it was the world cup final. 

Courage. You can't really train that in a person, they either have it or they don't.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 23, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			Hey LT...rumours are rife of a big announcement regarding the new stadium, apparently Thursday is the day. I'm looking forward to hearing what they have to say.
		
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First announcement made. The deal has been done. Further details including, hopefully, a design and timescale at 5pm. I hope it is a proper football stadium with character and atmosphere.


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## Fish (Mar 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Great strike from Podo there but you have to blame nancy Cahill for *turning his back.*

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sawtooth said:



			Fact is Cahill would have prevented a goal if he closed down instead of bottling it.
		
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Right, so now you change your mind from turning his back because that has proved to be incorrect to not closing the player down to suit your, so-called, non-biased opinion that it was solely Cahills fault, hmm, ok, if you say so...


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 23, 2017)

I see the pond life were out "supporting" England last night 

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39370763


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 23, 2017)

Fish said:



			Right, so now you change your mind from turning his back because that has proved to be incorrect to not closing the player down to suit your, so-called, non-biased opinion that it was solely Cahills fault, hmm, ok, if you say so...
		
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Cahill and the others do it as natural. Very few want to put their face or body on the line. See it week in and week out but when did it change. The likes of Terry, Adams etc were perhaps the last to really throw themselves in front of anything


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## Old Skier (Mar 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Courage. You can't really train that in a person, they either have it or they don't.
		
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Have I missed something, this is still a football thread I presume.


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## The Evertonian (Mar 23, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			First announcement made. The deal has been done. Further details including, hopefully, a design and timescale at 5pm. I hope it is a proper football stadium with character and atmosphere.
		
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An absolute peach of a deal by the sounds of it mate.
Â£14.4M p/a repayments over 40 years by the club. With the City Council receiving Â£4.4M p/a for being guarantor on the loan. 
With stadium naming rights and shirt sponsor (reportedly USM) as of next season, we wont even notice the outlay. 
When you think only 12 months ago the club was paying around Â£7M p/a to service its debts (which we no longer have), it feels like we are getting a shiney new stadium 'buck-shee'.
Still lots of hurdles to overcome but with the right backers it seems likely this stadium move is gonna get to the finish line, just the Evertonian in me will have doubts until I'm actually sitting in it watching our 1st game on the dock!


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## sawtooth (Mar 24, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Cahill and the others do it as natural. Very upfew want to put their face or body on the line. See it week in and week out but when did it change. The likes of Terry, Adams etc were perhaps the last to really throw themselves in front of anything
		
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It's something that changed over the years.

Like diving, conning the referee, rolling over several times, wearing gloves, etc these things didn't happen or were at least very rare 30 years ago.

The modern game has gone soft and is littered with cheats and prima Donnas. Not good.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 24, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			An absolute peach of a deal by the sounds of it mate.
Â£14.4M p/a repayments over 40 years by the club. With the City Council receiving Â£4.4M p/a for being guarantor on the loan. 
With stadium naming rights and shirt sponsor (reportedly USM) as of next season, we wont even notice the outlay. 
When you think only 12 months ago the club was paying around Â£7M p/a to service its debts (which we no longer have), it feels like we are getting a shiney new stadium 'buck-shee'.
Still lots of hurdles to overcome but with the right backers it seems likely this stadium move is gonna get to the finish line, just the Evertonian in me will have doubts until I'm actually sitting in it watching our 1st game on the dock!
		
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When you think of the money coming in from Sky each year, Â£14.4m is nothing. If that buys a new stadium it is a steal. It should have no impact on player buys at all which is amazing.

I'm disappointed that there were no stadium designs yesterday. They missed a trick in not putting something out there to give everyone something to lust over.

I'd like to think that if they have the council on their side then planning should sail through and most issues will have been looked at and plans ready for all problems. From all accounts it is about access so I hope that plans are already in place to resolve those problems. They can't say they are not aware of them.

All good news and the setting / backdrop should make it a real feature in the city.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 24, 2017)

Trying to watch the Ireland v Wales game but want to stick that trumpet being played somewhere he'll not get a tune from it. Hard to watch with that noise. Why to they allow instruments into grounds


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 24, 2017)

Sky reporting Seamus Coleman has broken his leg following a horror tackle. Terrible news for any sportsman.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 24, 2017)

Does look bad. Hopefully it'll be a simple break and he'll get treated and back to full fitness soon


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 24, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Does look bad. Hopefully it'll be a simple break and he'll get treated and back to full fitness soon
		
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Bale should have seen red 30 seconds before this tackle.
Taylors tackle was not good but Bales was just a bad.
I am sick of hearing it's a strikers challenge he's a footballer and if he can't tackle properly then don't do it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 24, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Bale should have seen red 30 seconds before this tackle.
Taylors tackle was not good but Bales was just a bad.
I am sick of hearing it's a strikers challenge he's a footballer and if he can't tackle properly then don't do it.
		
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Bales was just as bad!!! Coleman may of suffered a career ending break, not even sure why you brought Bales tackle in to the thread, you were replying to someone being decent about Coleman and don't even mention him or that tackle.


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## The Evertonian (Mar 25, 2017)

That tackle last night was a disgrace. There's no dressing it up any other way. He WENT for the leg.
All this 'he's not that type of player' nonsense from every Welsh pundit with a voice box is wrong. Taylor 'done' Seamus Coleman with that tackle. He had no intention of winning the football. So he actually is 'that type of player'.

Seamus Coleman is loved dearly at Everton and I wish him all the best in his recovery and hope we see him playing in an Everton shirt again one day soon.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 25, 2017)

If ever a phrase in football should be banned it is "he is not that type of player". It gets rolled out every time one of these horror tackles happen. 

I'm not looking to destroy Taylor but he made the tackle, it happened. Accept it, stop trying to excuse it. To be fair to him he apologised on the pitch and in the dressing room, it is the pundits who roll the excuses out.


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## The Evertonian (Mar 25, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If ever a phrase in football should be banned it is "he is not that type of player". It gets rolled out every time one of these horror tackles happen. 

I'm not looking to destroy Taylor but he made the tackle, it happened. Accept it, stop trying to excuse it. To be fair to him he apologised on the pitch and in the dressing room, it is the pundits who roll the excuses out.
		
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We're having some stinking luck with major injuries, Besic, Bolasie and now Seamus. All within the space of 6/7 months of one another.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 25, 2017)

Yeah, some injuries you can question training methods for example but these are out of a club's / players control.


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## Beezerk (Mar 25, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Bales was just as bad!!! Coleman may of suffered a career ending break, not even sure why you brought Bales tackle in to the thread, you were replying to someone being decent about Coleman and don't even mention him or that tackle.
		
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They didn't show the Taylor tackle on the replay this morning but I did see the Bale tackle. Not sure why you're twisting on, it was a horror tackle and he should have had a straight red. Awful for Coleman but O Shea was lucky to not have been on a stretcher moments earlier.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 25, 2017)

Footy Mcfooty Face. Looks like being the new team in USA. Gotta get me one of them shirts. &#128513;


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 25, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Bales was just as bad!!! Coleman may of suffered a career ending break, not even sure why you brought Bales tackle in to the thread, you were replying to someone being decent about Coleman and don't even mention him or that tackle.
		
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You really don't know why he brought Bales tackle up?? 
Did you see it?? 
I think it's pretty obvious why he brought the Bale Challenge up &#128580;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 25, 2017)

Beezerk said:



			They didn't show the Taylor tackle on the replay this morning but I did see the Bale tackle. Not sure why you're twisting on, it was a horror tackle and he should have had a straight red. Awful for Coleman but O Shea was lucky to not have been on a stretcher moments earlier.
		
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Twisting? One post?, they didn't show the Taylor tackle because it's that bad, surely if someone is answering a specific post they should reference said post, otherwise simply post an unreferenced comment.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 25, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Bales was just as bad!!! Coleman may of suffered a career ending break, not even sure why you brought Bales tackle in to the thread, you were replying to someone being decent about Coleman and don't even mention him or that tackle.
		
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I brought Bales tackle into it because it's a football thread isn't it.
If the ref had sent Bale off the tackle on Coleman may not have happened but he bottled it.
I did mention that tackle when I said Bales was as bad so that implies it was a bad one.
I hope Coleman is not to bad as I think he is one of the best full backs in the prem.
But if I am posting about football it is up to me what I want to say and don't have to post what you think I should about an injured player.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 25, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			I brought Bales tackle into it because it's a football thread isn't it.
If the ref had sent Bale off the tackle on Coleman may not have happened but he bottled it.
I did mention that tackle when I said Bales was as bad so that implies it was a bad one.
I hope Coleman is not to bad as I think he is one of the best full backs in the prem.
But if I am posting about football it is up to me what I want to say and don't have to post what you think I should about an injured player.
		
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Serbia had a good win last night, they'll have an advantage in June now.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 25, 2017)

Tough picking a bet out from League 1 & 2.


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## User62651 (Mar 25, 2017)

Watched the Taylor/Coleman tackle a few times, it does start as a 50/50 ball, Coleman goes in to hit that ball very hard knowing there's a tackle coming, Taylor is a bit high but he's trying to block, it's the force of Coleman's tib/fib hitting Taylors lower leg/ankle that causes the break imo per image below. For me it is not intent from Taylor to injure just to block, Taylor misses the ball and misses Coleman too, both parties are equally committed but a bit daft for going for that ball with so much intensity. Irish players don't go for Taylor, think its seen as a 50/50 that went wrong.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 25, 2017)

Fair play to Lukaku for being honest. 
Think he only ever saw Everton as a stepping stone. 
It's worked out well for him and the club.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 25, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Fair play to Lukaku for being honest. 
Think he only ever saw Everton as a stepping stone. 
It's worked out well for him and the club.
		
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I haven't seen anything new this morning. What have you read?


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 25, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I haven't seen anything new this morning. What have you read?
		
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Just the stuff about him being ambitious and wanting to win things. 
Didn't he say something about wanting to play for a big club again in the future after you'd signed him? 
Think it's just a case of who offers the most money now.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 25, 2017)

Yeah, no problem with that. He was always someone who was going to move on. We've had three good years out of him and his value has doubled at least.

Where he has been stupid is a/ his agent proclaimed he was 99.99999% likely to sign just a few weeks ago, b / he has come out before the end of the season with this.

He will go to a top club and because he has two years left on the deal the fee should be silly.

The rumour is also Barkley may go to Spurs, he only has 18 months left on his deal. Spurs always pay too much, bless em, so we may have a lot to spend but two key players to replace.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 25, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Yeah, no problem with that. He was always someone who was going to move on. We've had three good years out of him and his value has doubled at least.

Where he has been stupid is a/ his agent proclaimed he was 99.99999% likely to sign just a few weeks ago, b / he has come out before the end of the season with this.

He will go to a top club and because he has two years left on the deal the fee should be silly.

The rumour is also Barkley may go to Spurs, he only has 18 months left on his deal. Spurs always pay too much, bless em, so we may have a lot to spend but two key players to replace.
		
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Would You really miss Barkley? 
He could easily be replaced imo. 
Everton will struggle to replace Lukaku tho.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 25, 2017)

I'm a Barkley fan and think he could be very special. However, I agree, he would be easier to replace than Lukaku. Goals are always toughest to get.

If they went I'd like to see some real intent and try for Isco and Rodriguez from Real. Sounds bonkers but why not. Neither are playing regularly, transfer fees would be less than Lukaku alone and they would bring class to the team. Make a statement chairman &#128512;.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 25, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm a Barkley fan and think he could be very special. However, I agree, he would be easier to replace than Lukaku. Goals are always toughest to get.

If they went I'd like to see some real intent and try for Isco and Rodriguez from Real. Sounds bonkers but why not. Neither are playing regularly, transfer fees would be less than Lukaku alone and they would bring class to the team. Make a statement chairman &#128512;.
		
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Thing is with Barkley he's now at an age where it stops being potential.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 25, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Serbia had a good win last night, they'll have an advantage in June now.
		
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Yes they will


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## sawtooth (Mar 25, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Yeah, no problem with that. He was always someone who was going to move on. We've had three good years out of him and his value has doubled at least.

Where he has been stupid is a/ his agent proclaimed he was 99.99999% likely to sign just a few weeks ago, b / he has come out before the end of the season with this.

He will go to a top club and because he has two years left on the deal the fee should be silly.

The rumour is also Barkley may go to Spurs, he only has 18 months left on his deal. Spurs always pay too much, bless em, so we may have a lot to spend but two key players to replace.
		
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3 now with Coleman, he is likely to miss most of next season and most players never return the same player as before after that kind of injury.

We've had the same with Ramsey and Eduardo and its tough to take. I sympathise with Coleman, ROI and Everton but not Taylor. I don't want to hear the same BS that he isn't  that type of player.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 25, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Thing is with Barkley he's now at an age where it stops being potential.
		
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I think Koeman said that to him a few weeks ago when his form was poor. He is back on song now. He could be world class, he could be top PL class or could be decent PL. It's over to him but I think it is there for him.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 25, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			3 now with Coleman, he is likely to miss most of next season and most players never return the same player as before after that kind of injury.

We've had the same with Ramsey and Eduardo and its tough to take. I sympathise with Coleman, ROI and Everton but not Taylor. I don't want to hear the same BS that he isn't  that type of player.
		
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yes agree Coleman is one of the better more consistent Everton players it's more a sycological thing when your injury has healed.
Its in your head for ever I have been there.
But some players just shrug it off so hope he's in that camp.
One thing Everton must do is try to keep your players if you want to get back to the top.
I think it's wrong for players saying they want to go to a big club Everton are a big club .
He should say he wants CL football and lots more money.
Most Everton fans are resigned to losing him so you need a quality striker but that's easier said than done.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 25, 2017)

I'm not sure if we will buy another RB. We have some very good youngsters coming through and certainly one will get a chance until the end of the season. I suspect Mason Holgate will be the one. He has played already this year and looks very accomplished. Happy to be corrected by more avid blues fans who think someone else will get the shirt. We will undoubtedly miss Coleman though. His runs down the right can cause havoc for teams and he throws a few goals in every year.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 25, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think Koeman said that to him a few weeks ago when his form was poor. He is back on song now. He could be world class, he could be top PL class or could be decent PL. It's over to him but I think it is there for him.
		
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You obviously see more of him than me,but even when he's on it he never looks like being world class to me.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 25, 2017)

Chelsea putting together a new contract for Hazard,apparently Real are interested in signing him. 
If he did go it'd surely be a new world record fee.


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## sawtooth (Mar 25, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			yes agree Coleman is one of the better more consistent Everton players it's more a sycological thing when your injury has healed.
Its in your head for ever I have been there.
But some players just shrug it off so hope he's in that camp.
One thing Everton must do is try to keep your players if you want to get back to the top.
I think it's wrong for players saying they want to go to a big club Everton are a big club .
He should say he wants CL football and lots more money.
Most Everton fans are resigned to losing him so you need a quality striker but that's easier said than done.
		
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Yes it's all wrong, when you hear a player saying that he wants to go to a bigger club, play in CL or his current club doesn't match his ambition etc etc etc . What he is really saying is that he wants out for more money.

Lukaku would sign for Wokingham Town if they offered him Â£500K a week. 

There are some players that are not money mad though. Kane for example could have left Spurs for much more money but decided on staying. In fact Spurs have quite a few players on "low" salaries that could go for more elsewhere if they wanted.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 25, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			You obviously see more of him than me,but even when he's on it he never looks like being world class to me.
		
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My glasses may have a slightly blue tinge &#128513;. Two genuinely good feet, drifts past people, rocket shot, good passer. It's there but he needs to perform more consistently.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 25, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yes it's all wrong, when you hear a player saying that he wants to go to a bigger club, play in CL or his current club doesn't match his ambition etc etc etc . What he is really saying is that he wants out for more money.

Lukaku would sign for Wokingham Town if they offered him Â£500K a week. 

There are some players that are not money mad though. Kane for example could have left Spurs for much more money but decided on staying. In fact Spurs have quite a few players on "low" salaries that could go for more elsewhere if they wanted.
		
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Sorry but that's just posting from an entrenched opinion that it's just money that matters and not also winning things 

Lukaku wants to play in the CL and also have a chance to win it - he won't get that Everton , if it was just about money he would following the players to China but he isn't 

How do you know that Kane "could have gone" ? He is at the moment at a club that is looking like they have chances in the future of winning titles and possibly CL - if they build and keep the team together but if in 2/3 years they haven't moved forward then players will leave.

The sooner you realise that for a lot of players it's more than just money it's also about winning titles then maybe you will understand why players have left and will continue to leave clubs like Everton , Arsenal , Liverpool and Spurs


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## sawtooth (Mar 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but that's just posting from an entrenched opinion that it's just money that matters and not also winning things 

Lukaku wants to play in the CL and also have a chance to win it - he won't get that Everton , if it was just about money he would following the players to China but he isn't 

How do you know that Kane "could have gone" ? He is at the moment at a club that is looking like they have chances in the future of winning titles and possibly CL - if they build and keep the team together but if in 2/3 years they haven't moved forward then players will leave.

The sooner you realise that for a lot of players it's more than just money it's also about winning titles then maybe you will understand why players have left and will continue to leave clubs like Everton , Arsenal , Liverpool and Spurs
		
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My opinion Phil mate, i don't need to realise anything different because its not what you believe.

Maybe , just maybe you are wrong about what some players really want in life.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 25, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			My opinion Phil mate, i don't need to realise anything different because its not what you believe.

Maybe , just maybe you are wrong about what some players really want in life.
		
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Ok then - which players do you believe have left your club ( just picking your club as you know the players that have left ) based on "money only" and nothing to do with winning trophies as well. 

Because it seems to me that most of the players that leaves those clubs go on to clubs that win titles or at the least challenge for titles 

Torres - left Liverpool , won CL and Europa 

Alonso - left Liverpool - won CL , various titles at Madrid and Bayern

Suarez - left Liverpool - won everything in sight with Barcelona 

Now these players got bigger wages when they moved clubs but for me that's not why they left. 

Look at what some of the Arsenal players who left have gone on to win ? Same with someone like Bale at Spurs. They all do get increase in wages , but more importantly they also get a better chance of winning titles and medals - the facts seem to show that players that move on seem to win things ?


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ok then - which players do you believe have left your club ( just picking your club as you know the players that have left ) based on "money only" and nothing to do with winning trophies as well. 

Because it seems to me that most of the players that leaves those clubs go on to clubs that win titles or at the least challenge for titles 

Torres - left Liverpool , won CL and Europa 

Alonso - left Liverpool - won CL , various titles at Madrid and Bayern

Suarez - left Liverpool - won everything in sight with Barcelona 

Now these players got bigger wages when they moved clubs but for me that's not why they left. 

Look at what some of the Arsenal players who left have gone on to win ? Same with someone like Bale at Spurs. They all do get increase in wages , but more importantly they also get a better chance of winning titles and medals - the facts seem to show that players that move on seem to win things ?
		
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So they win things and also earn more money &#129300;. 
So both your opinions are valid. 

Here's a crazy idea Phil,allow Sawtooth to have a different opinion to you instead of trying to bully him into agreeing with you &#128077;&#127995;


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 26, 2017)

England doing enough against a Lithuanian side happy to concede possession and space. Good finish from Defoe, and I know we are missing Kane, but he really isn't the future and we need to be giving the youngsters (Rashford etc) a chance to get more experience in time for next year. I still don't see what Sterling brings to this or his club side. A win is a win but I fear like the last WC qualifiers it will only flatter to deceive once we meet better opposition


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## Papas1982 (Mar 26, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			England doing enough against a Lithuanian side happy to concede possession and space. Good finish from Defoe, and I know we are missing Kane, but he really isn't the future and we need to be giving the youngsters (Rashford etc) a chance to get more experience in time for next year. I still don't see what Sterling brings to this or his club side. A win is a win but I fear like the last WC qualifiers it will only flatter to deceive once we meet better opposition
		
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I think Defoe probably would have gotten us out of jail agaisnt Iceland last summer. None of our strikers have the instinct of him imo, Kane is a better player thiugh. Rashford has a lot to prove and not sure he will get the chance under Jose. 

For me the the big issue is 8 of them can play for the u21 in the summer and won't. Tournament football for then is far more important than beating 3rd/4th rate into teams.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 26, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			For me the the big issue is 8 of them can play for the u21 in the summer and won't. Tournament football for then is far more important than beating 3rd/4th rate into teams.
		
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Southgate was on Talk Sport earlier in the week saying that he wanted players like Rashford and the other young players to go the the U21 tournaments so that they have tournament experience. Whether that will actually happen or not is a totally different matter.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 26, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Southgate was on Talk Sport earlier in the week saying that he wanted players like Rashford and the other young players to go the the U21 tournaments so that they have tournament experience. Whether that will actually happen or not is a totally different matter.
		
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I vaguely recall when he was with u21's he was quite vocal in that view.

Will be interesting come summer. For me i'd take all of them that are of age.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 26, 2017)

So would I. If they qualify to play then they should be there. My opinion is that they would be far better off playing competitive matches in the U21 tournament than playing a couple of friendlies or spending the summer in Magaluf or wherever it is that footballers go for their summer holidays.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 26, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			So would I. If they qualify to play then they should be there. My opinion is that they would be far better off playing competitive matches in the U21 tournament than playing a couple of friendlies or spending the summer in Magaluf or wherever it is that footballers go for their summer holidays.
		
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Fully agree. TBH, with the group we're in for qualifying. If we had qualifiers I'd still prioritise the u21's. There are lots of reasons for our poor tournament performances. But one thing most of the winners of these events have is their u21 team win them first.


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## Swingalot (Mar 26, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Southgate was on Talk Sport earlier in the week saying that he wanted players like Rashford and the other young players to go the the U21 tournaments so that they have tournament experience. Whether that will actually happen or not is a totally different matter.
		
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Rashford should be in the u.21s and that's it anyway. What has he done to deserve his place in the current squad apart from be employed by a top 6 club?!

On that subject, the surprise and irony was not lost on me as many commentators have commended Keane (Burnley ) for his display today. Yes, believe it or not their is a talent elsewhere, beyond the end of your frigging nose!


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## Tashyboy (Mar 27, 2017)

Hmm city fined 35k for arguing over a penalty awarded to liverpool. Do we get 2 x 35k back off the refs for the two blatant penaltys missed when both milner and walker brought sterling down from behind. 

Thought not.


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## pbrown7582 (Mar 27, 2017)

Standard fine for fail to control players, shame the FA don't apply the standard ban  on missed drugs test these days ?


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## Tashyboy (Mar 27, 2017)

Thing is a missed drugs test is nowt to get excited about. If you should of had it on Tuesday and are not there. Do it the day after. Test the same player. If he has had owt it will still be in his system. The big drugs thing at the moment is playing under the imfluence of pain killers


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## Stuart_C (Mar 27, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			Standard fine for fail to control players, shame the FA don't apply the standard ban  on missed drugs test these days ?
		
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What happened to FA conspiracy against your lot? Yernited were only fined Â£20k for the same incident against Chelsea.....


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## Fish (Mar 28, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			What happened to FA conspiracy against your lot? Yernited were only fined Â£20k for the same incident against Chelsea.....
		
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They should do Â£5k a player, so 4 players = Â£20k, City = 7 players Â£35k  The captain's who can approach gets Â£5k fine per incident himself for not managing his players, that'll stop it :smirk:


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 28, 2017)

Neymar to Utd? 
Would like to see him in the Prem,would prefer it be with Chelsea tho.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 28, 2017)

Fish said:



			They should do Â£5k a player, so 4 players = Â£20k, City = 7 players Â£35k  The captain's who can approach gets Â£5k fine per incident himself for not managing his players, that'll stop it :smirk:
		
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I like that idea. I hate players crowding arounf a ref trying to intimidate him. Horrible. Two incidents in the space of one season, captain gets suspended for one match.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 28, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I like that idea. I hate players crowding arounf a ref trying to intimidate him. Horrible. Two incidents in the space of one season, captain gets suspended for one match.
		
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If players crowd round the Ref he should give a penalty to opposition that would Defo put a stop to it.
Fines are no good what's Â£35k to a top club.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 28, 2017)

Am sure every club will have its tales of refereeing woes but City have had a bucketfull this year both for and against. Suprised it has taken this long for us to be fined. Think the players have been very diaciplind up to this point. 
Not the only  fine we have had this week though is it. Fined for a late kick off as well


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 28, 2017)

See Messi has copped a four game ban for arguing with an assistant ref in the match last night. Handed out by Fifa but not in the refs report apparently http://www.skysports.com/football/n...or-verbally-abusing-official-in-argentina-win

That's a worry for Argentina who are third in the group and some tricky games to come. Would be strange to have a world cup without them but imagine they'll find a way. They usually do


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## Stuart_C (Mar 28, 2017)

Another casualty from the international break, a thigh problem.that rules Lallana out of at least 6 games most likely the rest Of The season.

International football is crap.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 29, 2017)

The injury to Lallana could have happened at any time. That is not an injury due to internationals, it is just part of a footballers life.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 29, 2017)

Video referee used in the France v Spain game last night and over ruled the decision by the referee to allow a French goal that was offside. Good to see Fifa rolling this out but not sure how it'll work with penalties etc as that's still a persons conjecture on contact or not. However for decisions of fact I can see this being a great move


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## Tashyboy (Mar 29, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Video referee used in the France v Spain game last night and over ruled the decision by the referee to allow a French goal that was offside. Good to see Fifa rolling this out but not sure how it'll work with penalties etc as that's still a persons conjecture on contact or not. However for decisions of fact I can see this being a great move
		
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The words of didier deschamp the losing manager of france
_It is against us today, but if we have to go through this, it will be the same for everyone 

Cheers Diddy it worker out quite well didnt it. The correct decisions were made. So much for the doom and gloom merchants who never wanted it in the first place_


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## Tashyboy (Mar 29, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			See Messi has copped a four game ban for arguing with an assistant ref in the match last night. Handed out by Fifa but not in the refs report apparently http://www.skysports.com/football/n...or-verbally-abusing-official-in-argentina-win

That's a worry for Argentina who are third in the group and some tricky games to come. Would be strange to have a world cup without them but imagine they'll find a way. They usually do
		
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With that kind of attitude he would fit into our team perfectly


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## Tashyboy (Mar 29, 2017)

Just seen ronaldos new "Bust" in Maderia airport. 
A fitting tribute me finks. :rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 29, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			With that kind of attitude he would fit into our team perfectly 

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Loves a good strop does Messi. 
Not be long until he's retiring from international football AGAIN.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 29, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Loves a good strop does Messi. 
Not be long until he's retiring from international football AGAIN.
		
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Would love to know what he actually said though.


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## sawtooth (Mar 29, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Another casualty from the international break, a thigh problem.that rules Lallana out of at least 6 games most likely the rest Of The season.

International football is crap.
		
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Yep suck it up, we all get injuries and there's no such thing as bad luck or financial disparity either!

None of that applies to Arsenal so it doesn't apply to Liverpool either.&#128521;&#128537;


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 29, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Would love to know what he actually said though.
		
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## ger147 (Mar 29, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Would love to know what he actually said though.
		
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I'm guessing it wasn't "pass the salt" to land a 4 game ban...


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 29, 2017)

Apparently he told the assistant referee to go away in a rather more basic manner. Not sure why it wasn't in the refs report if the assistant reported it at the time


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## Stuart_C (Mar 29, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yep suck it up, we all get injuries and there's no such thing as bad luck or financial disparity either!

None of that applies to Arsenal so it doesn't apply to Liverpool either.&#128521;&#128537;
		
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Finances have never and will never play a part in players getting injured. 

It's more annoyance than anything else. Injuries are part of football and we just have to accept them.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 29, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Finances have never and will never play a part in players getting injured. 

It's more annoyance than anything else. Injuries are part of football and we just have to accept them.
		
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Agreed. Whenever players go away on international duty you hope yours don't get hurt, but have to suck it up if they do. It does however highlight those sides that don't have much strength in depth in their squads


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## sawtooth (Mar 30, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Finances have never and will never play a part in players getting injured. 

It's more annoyance than anything else. Injuries are part of football and we just have to accept them.
		
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Of course, but you don't have another Lallana on the bench and that's where finances do play their part.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 30, 2017)

Sounds like Sanchez wants a move to Chelsea. 
I don't see how he'd improve the starting 11 tbh. 
Be a decent squad player tho.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 30, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Of course, but you don't have another Lallana on the bench and that's where finances do play their part.
		
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It's just the way Llalana plays .
He runs so much at a hundred miles an hour most Liverpool fans know it was a matter of time before he got injured.
Just happened at the wrong time for us.
But you are right the squad is not strong enough to replace him and Henderson.


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## Kellfire (Mar 30, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Sounds like Sanchez wants a move to Chelsea. 
I don't see how he'd improve the starting 11 tbh. 
Be a decent squad player tho.
		
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He'd take Pedro's place maybe?


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## USER1999 (Mar 30, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Sounds like Sanchez wants a move to Chelsea. 
I don't see how he'd improve the starting 11 tbh. 
Be a decent squad player tho.
		
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A massive misquote by the papers. He never said this. I can see him leaving, but not to Chelsea.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 30, 2017)

The fixture changes for City are beginning to piss me off big style now. Another sodding game ( palace ) has had its time changed.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 30, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			The fixture changes for City are beginning to piss me off big style now. Another sodding game ( palace ) has had its time changed.
		
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It's all part of the "product" Now, it only benefits the know all armchair fans. 

It'll only get worse aswell. 5:30pm games on New Years Eve will be the norm.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 30, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			It's all part of the "product" Now, it only benefits the know all armchair fans. 

It'll only get worse aswell. 5:30pm games on New Years Eve will be the norm.
		
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Hasn't it always been that way since the PL started and we began having Sunday kick offs.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 30, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Hasn't it always been that way since the PL started and we began having Sunday kick offs.
		
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It's definitely got worse year on year. Friday night football, 11:30 kick offs, kick offs being changed to suit everyone else bar the match going fans without a care about travel, especially night games.

We played Chelsea earlier this season, The last train from Euston left at 8:07pm, that's not acceptable. The same happened to city when they played West Ham.

The Xmas period was always the local ish sides played each other,  now that's out the window.

They moan about FA Cup attendances and the magic Of The FA Cup yet the early rounds are spread over 4days. Pathetic.


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## Swingalot (Mar 30, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			The fixture changes for City are beginning to piss me off big style now. Another sodding game ( palace ) has had its time changed.
		
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Mate I have a train ticket that arrives half way through the second half now! We are now booked on a train out of London at 6.40am. Makes for a long day.

Worse fixture change I saw though is that West Ham vs Spurs is a now a Friday night match. Just shows money over sense, as that game is tasty enough without adding in the Friday night factor


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 31, 2017)

But therein lies the problem of taking the tv money. If you want the big cheques coming in you have to accept the demands they place on you.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 31, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			But therein lies the problem of taking the tv money. If you want the big cheques coming in you have to accept the demands they place on you.
		
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Correct, but the match going fans don't have a choice. 

The greedy football clubs/business's/franchise/investment groups will take anything. 

Look at the Liverpool v City game on NYE. The last public transport to Manchester was 7pm, The game finished 20minutes after that. The game was brought forward without any thought Of The travelling fans who rely on public transport. 

The football clubs should be responsible for making sure there's adequate transport on these occasions imo.


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## sawtooth (Mar 31, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Correct, but the match going fans don't have a choice. 
.
		
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Yes they do, they don't have to go to matches and they don't have to buy season tickets.

Problem is though there will always be someone else to fill their place and if not then clubs will be encouraged to do something about it.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yes they do, they don't have to go to matches and they don't have to buy season tickets.

Problem is though there will always be someone else to fill their place and if not then clubs will be encouraged to do something about it.
		
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Match day revenue is almost irrelevant in a top football clubs revenue stream due to tv money. All clubs could sell tickets for significantly less and it wouldn't hit them to hard if they were sensible. Greed on all parts is the problem. From players up through to the board.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yes they do, they don't have to go to matches and they don't have to buy season tickets.

Problem is though there will always be someone else to fill their place and if not then clubs will be encouraged to do something about it.
		
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It doesn't matter who the match going fans are, The point remains the same. The match going fans are punished.

Do you honestly think sky and co are bothered about whether  stadiums are full or not? 

I'd guess that there's only 7 clubs that sell out week in week out. We see empty seats every single week, has anything changed?


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## USER1999 (Mar 31, 2017)

Oddly, sky do like the away fans to turn up, as they provide the atmosphere.

But then hold the game at a time that is massively inconvenient.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 31, 2017)

Whats done me is the last few months have been a royal pita. But you kinda go along with that being in cup comps. But we were asked to stop over in Manchester saturday night so missis T night before jols cancels having Young Bradley. Books hotel Non refundable. Has hair appointment at 10.30. Then City or who soddin ever changes KO time five  piggin weeks before. prats. As it stands we will get to City about 2.00pm.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 31, 2017)

Apparently the only way to avoid it is don't buy a ticket Tashy  

I accept changes to ko times etc  because going the match has been a massive part of my life but it still annoys the hell out of me  when its blatantly obvious those in charge of decision making haven't took into consideration of travelling arrangements for fans.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 31, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Apparently the only way to avoid it is don't buy a ticket Tashy  

I accept changes to ko times etc  because going the match has been a massive part of my life but it still annoys the hell out of me  when its blatantly obvious those in charge of decision making haven't took into consideration of travelling arrangements for fans.
		
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Something swingalot am sure will agree with.


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## Swingalot (Mar 31, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Something swingalot am sure will agree with.
		
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Yep it drives me nuts. Change in kick off times/dates along with the various price swings and availability of train travel in this country make planning a few lads trips away to watch a game far more challenging than it should be. Yes I booked the train up to Manchester early and ran the risk of this happening, but if the game had not changed I would have been Â£70 better off, so maybe worth the risk or not as it proved on this occasion!

Anyway, I must be mad going up to City as I reckon I have followed Palace up there about a dozen times and only seen us win once. :angry: I like the trip though, some decent boozers and normally a good laugh despite the result. :thup: At least with the ealry kick off we'll be back in London even earlier than normal. :cheers:


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## Tashyboy (Mar 31, 2017)

Swingalot said:



			Yep it drives me nuts. Change in kick off times/dates along with the various price swings and availability of train travel in this country make planning a few lads trips away to watch a game far more challenging than it should be. Yes I booked the train up to Manchester early and ran the risk of this happening, but if the game had not changed I would have been Â£70 better off, so maybe worth the risk or not as it proved on this occasion!

Anyway, I must be mad going up to City as I reckon I have followed Palace up there about a dozen times and only seen us win once. :angry: I like the trip though, some decent boozers and normally a good laugh despite the result. :thup: At least with the ealry kick off we'll be back in London even earlier than normal. :cheers:
		
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With the pace in your team v our defence. If you can nick a goal and keep it tight it could be another draw to add to the six we have had at home. ðŸ˜–


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 31, 2017)

I'm an armchair fan so it doesn't affect me. 
But it's obvious that they don't give a toss about the match going supporters anymore. 
But football is a business now and they'll do whatever brings in the most money.


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## Fish (Mar 31, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Oddly, sky do like the away fans to turn up at the Emirates as _they_ provide the atmosphere.
		
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Fixed that for you


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 1, 2017)

Good first half - Everton lucky to not be down to 9 , ref not having a great game. Great finishes from Mane and Coutinho


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## sawtooth (Apr 1, 2017)

Looked more like a knee rather than a ankle injury there for Mane. Either way not good for Liverpool.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 1, 2017)

Challenges from Everton today have been shocking - how they still have 11 on the pitch is because the ref has bottled it. Can looks in trouble as well


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## sawtooth (Apr 1, 2017)

As a neutral, Can was lucky there with just a yellow card. Horrendous challenge.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			As a neutral, Can was lucky there with just a yellow card. Horrendous challenge.
		
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Half pulled out so made no contact - yellow for the intent , if he hadn't pulled out and made contact then it would have been a red


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 1, 2017)

:whoo:

That will do nicely 

Only negative is the injury to Mane 

Nice gap building to team in 5th


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 1, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			:whoo:


Nice gap building to team in 5th
		
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Yeah that tends to happen when you've played 3 more games than the team in 5th &#128580;


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## Old Skier (Apr 1, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yeah that tends to happen when you've played 3 more games than the team in 5th &#128580;
		
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Points win prizes not games in hand.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 1, 2017)

Old Skier said:



			Points win prizes not games in hand.
		
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Correct,just pointing out that it's a false gap. 
Arsenal & Utd will be closer when played games in hand.


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## Fish (Apr 1, 2017)

Old Skier said:



			Points win prizes not games in hand.
		
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True, and I'd rather have the points than the 2/3 games in hand which could see them drop  3 places &#128540;


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## Stuart_C (Apr 1, 2017)

I see it didn't take long for Koeman to turn into "Dignity Dave".

It's always nice to beat that lot, I fear for the everton wives tonight.


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## Bunkermagnet (Apr 1, 2017)

And we loaned out Sahko because?
I just hope both sides can sort the mess and have him back in the fold next season.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 1, 2017)

Maybe it's not all over after all :rofl:


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## anotherdouble (Apr 1, 2017)

Very very blue afternoon. Just a blip. We will be back


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 1, 2017)

Maybe it's Liverpools year after all &#128514;&#128514;

Or is that next season?? &#129300;


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 1, 2017)

Good work from WBA - that's one of the game in hands gone and still a healthy gap :whoo:


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## Slime (Apr 1, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Good work from WBA - that's one of the game in hands gone and still a healthy gap :whoo:
		
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I think United will struggle for top four now.
WBA put everyone behind the ball and were very good. United should have found a way to break them down but just couldn't and Foster made a couple of worldy saves, as do most opposing goalies this season at OT.
It looks like Europa League is our best bet, especially with our crazy run in and silly injuries.
We've shot ourselves in too often at home this season ................... no excuses!


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 1, 2017)

And...in the most competitive League in the UK....two St Johnstone players are sent of for fighting.



















each other


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 1, 2017)

De Gea has won Utd so many matches and so many points that mourhino and Utd fans complaining about opposition keepers having a blinder is quite chucklesome.


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## SaintHacker (Apr 1, 2017)

Has Harry Arters penalty landed yet?:rofl:


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 1, 2017)

Missed it all so have to see it on MOTD. Some interesting viewing ahead. Think United missed a big chance to close the gap and claim a top four spot but Arsenal still have a lot to do in my opinion


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## Stuart_C (Apr 1, 2017)

The blooooo's  are very very quiet tonight, I hope PaulDJ is ok:rofl:


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## sawtooth (Apr 1, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



*The blooooo's  are very very quiet tonight*, I hope PaulDJ is ok:rofl:
		
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I hope that its the same tomorrow night.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 1, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			The blooooo's  are very very quiet tonight, I hope PaulDJ is ok:rofl:
		
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Just heard what Koeman said in his after match interview- the guy must be on drugs


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## sawtooth (Apr 1, 2017)

Poor challenge from Shawcross on Gray today he was nowhere near the ball and just took the man. 

But Ryan is a lovely lad and not that type of player. :angry:


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just heard what Koeman said in his after match interview- the guy must be on drugs
		
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Not the best Derby but we played some good stuff in patches, still give the ball away to easy.
Liverpools back four was like Burtons window for their goal.
Klopp needs to get someone in to sort the defence out at dead ball situations.
Very disappointed with Everton the service to Lakarku was dire and he never featured at all.
Agree the ref bottled it Everton should have been down to 9 after Barkleys and Williams tackle but Can was a bit lucky also .
We took our chances witch was good but still look vulnerable at the back.
Hope Mane is ok but it didn't look very nice just a silly one trying to block a long ball.
Agree Koeman was watching a different game after his comments.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 2, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Poor challenge from Shawcross on Gray today he was nowhere near the ball and just took the man. 

But Ryan is a lovely lad and not that type of player. :angry:
		
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Does make you wonder what you have to do to get a straight red.
That was assault and he should be ashamed.
You see players sent off for dissent or pulling shirts and that was only yellow
Barkleys tackle on Loveren was a straight red.
Lets hope the video ref comes here soon as the refs in the prem need it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 2, 2017)

I think there must be something in the after match tea for Everton as Martinez used to talk rubbish after a match as well. I don't know why managers do it, it just makes them look silly. Normally Koeman is okay but not yesterday.

I agree Barkley should have gone, dangerous tackle. Hard to argue otherwise.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think there must be something in the after match tea for Everton as Martinez used to talk rubbish after a match as well. I don't know why managers do it, it just makes them look silly. Normally Koeman is okay but not yesterday.

I agree Barkley should have gone, dangerous tackle. Hard to argue otherwise.
		
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The snide stamp from Williams must be addressed by the FA because the ref never seen it. No better than that of Tyrone Mings.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 2, 2017)

Just seen the assault by Shawcross. Blimey, no subtlety there. You'd struggle to argue if he'd been given a red for that.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think there must be something in the after match tea for Everton as Martinez used to talk rubbish after a match as well. I don't know why managers do it, it just makes them look silly. Normally Koeman is okay but not yesterday.

I agree Barkley should have gone, dangerous tackle. Hard to argue otherwise.
		
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Have you banged your head ?

Koeman was right, Can rolled like a fish out of water and needed no treatment, their bench is like a gang of girls at a Take That concert, look at the stats, they committed just about twice as many fouls as us, Lucas should've walked as all he did was persistently foul.

As for Barkley, they've got short memories, he's the same age now as when Slippy was diving in 2 footed and causing mayhem, but that was alright as he wore a red shirt!

They took their chances well and will laugh this season when Coutinho goes off to Spain.

Isn't this the 4th time this season a little gap has been growing and stated on here :rofl: :rofl: they won the league last October as well :whoo:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just heard what Koeman said in his after match interview- the guy must be on drugs
		
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It's only took two defeats for him to turn into Moyes.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 2, 2017)

I thought some of his comments were poor. We lost, take it. I'm not dissecting all of his comments but some were just silly. 

Slippy was dangerous and nasty at times but that doesn't excuse Barkley. A poor tackle is a poor tackle, whoever makes it.

I agree Liverpool squealed too much but the way to answer that is to a/ laugh it off, b / beat them.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			It's only took two defeats for him to turn into Moyes.
		
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You're not used to hearing an honest manager, that's the problem


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I thought some of his comments were poor. We lost, take it. I'm not dissecting all of his comments but some were just silly. 

Slippy was dangerous and nasty at times but that doesn't excuse Barkley. A poor tackle is a poor tackle, whoever makes it.

I agree Liverpool squealed too much but the way to answer that is to a/ laugh it off, b / beat them.
		
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If they can't just dismiss the whole interview because they don't agree with bits of it, he praised them as well, but those parts are ignored.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Have you banged your head ?

Koeman was right, Can rolled like a fish out of water and needed no treatment, their bench is like a gang of girls at a Take That concert, look at the stats, they committed just about twice as many fouls as us, Lucas should've walked as all he did was persistently foul.

As for Barkley, they've got short memories, he's the same age now as when Slippy was diving in 2 footed and causing mayhem, but that was alright as he wore a red shirt!

They took their chances well and will laugh this season when Coutinho goes off to Spain.

Isn't this the 4th time this season a little gap has been growing and stated on here :rofl: :rofl: they won the league last October as well :whoo:
		
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Coooey......... Nice to see your alive Paul, I was celebrating for a minute then :rofl: :ears:

Everton have stagnated Barkley's progress, though he's got that proper everton snide streak in him aswell as mastering the art of diving, he must've been studying Hazard.

Coutinho won't get into any of the top sides in Spain according to some.......

Liverpool have ruined Everton's Christmas and Easter :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			You're not used to hearing an honest manager, that's the problem 

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There's honesty and there's excuses, it's certainly the latter. 

Straight out of the Davey Moyes excuse book.:blah: :blah:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Coooey......... Nice to see your alive Paul, I was celebrating for a minute then :rofl: :ears:

Everton have stagnated Barkley's progress, though he's got that proper everton snide streak in him aswell as mastering the art of diving, he must've been studying Hazard.

Coutinho won't get into any of the top sides in Spain according to some.......

Liverpool have ruined Everton's Christmas and Easter :rofl:
		
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Barkley has found his form again thanks to Koeman and he learnt the snide bit watching slippy all them years.

Nice to see all them young players you's go on about breaking in to your squad yesterday :rofl: 

Don't worry about Coutinho he'll join a club were he can be succesful :ears:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			There's honesty and there's excuses, it's certainly the latter. 

Straight out of the Davey Moyes excuse book.:blah: :blah:
		
Click to expand...

Straight out of the Benitez interview file :rofl:


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## Jensen (Apr 2, 2017)

Where's Fish....he's awfully quiet &#128514;&#128514;


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## Stuart_C (Apr 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Straight out of the Benitez interview file :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

You're having a nightmare here mush, Rafa never gave much to the press unlike Moyes. That's what happens when you're manager was a born loser.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 2, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Where's Fish....he's awfully quiet &#128514;&#128514;
		
Click to expand...

Raiding his penny jar to pay me out for finishing above Everton again.  #printingmoney


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			You're having a nightmare here mush, Rafa never gave much to the press unlike Moyes. That's what happens when you're manager was a born loser.
		
Click to expand...

Benitez was a wind bag, he wore the most red tinted glasses ever, 

Obviously sold them to you when he left :ears:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Raiding his penny jar to pay me out for finishing above Everton again.  #printingmoney
		
Click to expand...

I thought finishing above us didn't matter to you lot as it's routine  #opentopbustour


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## Stuart_C (Apr 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Benitez was a wind bag, he wore the most red tinted glasses ever, 

Obviously sold them to you when he left :ears:
		
Click to expand...

He's a proper  winner unlike Moyes.

As for red glasses, I've had these for as longs everton haven't won a trophy  :ears:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			He's a proper  winner unlike Moyes.

As for red glasses, I've have donkeys ears to keep them on.
		
Click to expand...


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## Stuart_C (Apr 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I thought finishing above us didn't matter to you lot as it's routine  #opentopbustour
		
Click to expand...

It doesn't as its expected, but I wouldn't pass up in the offer of an easy Â£20, I've still got last years, I'm just waiting for a few more and I'll frame them.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			It doesn't as its expected, but I wouldn't pass up in the offer of an easy Â£20, I've still got last years, I'm just waiting for a few more and I'll frame them.
		
Click to expand...

See the half n halves were out in force in the Kop yesterday :rofl: #mustofbeendaytrippers


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 2, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			There's honesty and there's excuses, it's certainly the latter. 

Straight out of the Davey Moyes excuse book.:blah: :blah:
		
Click to expand...

Living up to the bitters name :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Living up to the bitters name :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Plan worked Stu :rofl: cheers :thup:
Just like I said in the email, he can't resist.


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## The Evertonian (Apr 2, 2017)

I'm gutted with our performance yesterday. Once again we didn't show up at Anfield. It's becoming a joke. 
Anyways I'm off to York for a couple of days on the ale. I'll be back when the heat dies down.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 2, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			I'm gutted with our performance yesterday. Once again we didn't show up at Anfield.
		
Click to expand...

At least your performance's are consistent :whoo:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			See the half n halves were out in force in the Kop yesterday :rofl: #mustofbeendaytrippers
		
Click to expand...

No problem with daytrippers, at least they make the effort.

Have you had your armchair renewal through yet?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			No problem with daytrippers, at least they make the effort.

Have you had your armchair renewal through yet?

Click to expand...

Just like your players, #nolocals


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## Rlburnside (Apr 2, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Where's Fish....he's awfully quiet &#62978;&#62978;
		
Click to expand...


O he's about,only sing when you're winning


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 2, 2017)

Only just watched MOTD from the comfort of my armchair &#128556;
Just one of them days for Chelsea,although should have a penalty for a blatant handball. 
Zaha looks a decent player,what happened at UTD?


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Plan worked Stu :rofl: cheers :thup:
Just like I said in the email, he can't resist.
		
Click to expand...

Looks like Phils got a little fan club &#128514;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Looks like Phils got a little fan club &#128514;
		
Click to expand...

Get's even better Stu, always one that'll take the bait &#127907;&#127907;&#127907;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Get's even better Stu, always one that'll take the bait &#127907;&#127907;&#127907;&#128514;&#128514;
		
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Omg I've been mugged by Paul &#128514;
Brilliant banter Paul, it really is &#128563;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Omg I've been mugged by Paul &#128514;
Brilliant banter Paul, it really is &#128563;
		
Click to expand...

&#128718;&#128282; :thup:


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 2, 2017)

Look stu I've got a bit, Stu....Stu...Stu???? 
&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;

Just give him a thumbs up or something Stu,it's getting a little awkward &#128584;&#128563;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Look stu I've got a bit, Stu....Stu...Stu???? 
&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;

Just give him a thumbs up or something Stu,it's getting a little awkward &#128584;&#128563;
		
Click to expand...

:thup:


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## fundy (Apr 2, 2017)

seems like Arsenal arent bothering with a midfield today, just defense and an attack. Can see us getting completely overrun in the middle of the park. If we can get enough ball heading forward we should score goals though!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2017)

fundy said:



			seems like Arsenal arent bothering with a midfield today, just defense and an attack. Can see us getting completely overrun in the middle of the park. If we can get enough ball heading forward we should score goals though!
		
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Difficult to call to be honest, could be a case of attack v attack, still fancy Arsenal to sneak it though.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 2, 2017)

City win BTTS.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 2, 2017)

Seems a fairly large protest outside the ground , wonder what will happen when he signs a new contract


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seems a fairly large protest outside the ground , wonder what will happen when he signs a new contract
		
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Your post count will rocket.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 2, 2017)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.da...h-celtic-players-celebrate-title-10144612.amp

&#128514;


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 2, 2017)

That's another nasty tackle - this time from Walcott


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## fundy (Apr 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That's another nasty tackle - this time from Walcott
		
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cut him some slack, its the first tackle hes made in 6 years  (shouldve been red!)


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## Tashyboy (Apr 2, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.da...h-celtic-players-celebrate-title-10144612.amp

&#128514;
		
Click to expand...


Cheers pin, am watching that and the Arsenal score, fortunately Aguero has turned up again..
obviously would love the three points but to make it a nice interesting run in for the neutrals, three points would make it interesting what with Chelsea being in a slump.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 2, 2017)

Navas  is such a bad player,what does he actually bring to the team?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 2, 2017)

That's the best result , even if City prob should have had a penalty right at the end


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## Jensen (Apr 2, 2017)

Yup that's exactly the result I was looking for. Great for the Yids


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## Tashyboy (Apr 2, 2017)

Another game where City should of won and drew. For two reasons
1, not taking there chances. Again.
2, another slack dodgy defence. Again.

Re Navas. I was asking Missis T, how the hell are we fourth, with players like Cabalero, Navas, YAYA, Otamendi, Clichy, Is the rest of the prem league that bad, that five players are not up to it but we are fourth


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## sawtooth (Apr 2, 2017)

Quite pleased with a point after falling behind twice. Needed the 3 though and  top 4 is looking more difficult now but not given up on it yet. Still a lot of points to play for.


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## fundy (Apr 2, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Another game where City should of won and drew. For two reasons
1, not taking there chances. Again.
2, another slack dodgy defence. Again.

Re Navas. I was asking Missis T, how the hell are we fourth, with players like *Cabalero, Navas, YAYA, Otamendi, Clichy*, Is the rest of the prem league that bad, that five players are not up to it but we are fourth
		
Click to expand...

I call that and raise you ospina, monreal, coquelin, xhaka, iwobi, gabriel, elneny, maitlind niles, gibbs, martinez and walcott (and thats just from todays squad!)


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 2, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Quite pleased with a point after falling behind twice. Needed the 3 though and  top 4 is looking more difficult now but not given up on it yet. Still a lot of points to play for.
		
Click to expand...

You were very vocal about some tackles yesterday - so what did you think of Walcotts ? Red card ?


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## chrisd (Apr 2, 2017)

Another good weekend (at last) great result and Swansea v Middlesborough draw helpful too, so I feel a bit easier


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## Tashyboy (Apr 2, 2017)

fundy said:



			I call that and raise you ospina, monreal, coquelin, xhaka, iwobi, gabriel, elneny, maitlind niles, gibbs, martinez and walcott (and thats just from todays squad!)
		
Click to expand...

Honest I could of gone on through the City squad, but I don't think theres enough ink in the printer to name them..
When Walcott came off, he needed a serious slapping, his attitude stunk.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 2, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Honest I could of gone on through the City squad, but I don't think theres enough ink in the printer to name them..
When Walcott came off, he needed a serious slapping, his attitude stunk.
		
Click to expand...

But how good is Sane? 
Looks a proper player.?


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## Golfmmad (Apr 2, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			When Walcott came off, he needed a serious slapping, his attitude stunk.
		
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I must have missed it, why did he need a "Serious slapping"?


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 2, 2017)

Looking at the table you can see Everton pipping Arsenal and so no European football of any description for Arsenal and I really can't see them getting top four. Poor result for Cit having led but they just look incapable of holding the ball for periods of time, which showed up in their CL campaign. Look at any of the top sides around the continent and they can all retain possession. You can't do anything without the ball.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 2, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Looking at the table you can see Everton pipping Arsenal and so no European football of any description for Arsenal and I really can't see them getting top four. Poor result for Cit having led but they just look incapable of holding the ball for periods of time, which showed up in their CL campaign. Look at any of the top sides around the continent and they can all retain possession. You can't do anything without the ball.
		
Click to expand...

Top 7 will get Europe this season and I can't see Arsenal finishing 8th. So Arsenal will at least have Thursday night footy. 

1-4 CL
5 europa. 
6&7 th europa as Fa cup and europa league spot got to league.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 2, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Top 7 will get Europe this season and I can't see Arsenal finishing 8th. So Arsenal will at least have Thursday night footy. 

1-4 CL
5 europa. 
6&7 th europa as Fa cup and europa league spot got to league.
		
Click to expand...

Reckon that would be worse for Arsenal. Lots of games (assuming they qualify and six group games anyway) and will highlight their already thin squad. There isn't much strength in depth there and I know from my own clubs experience that it affected our PL form and we were stretched.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 2, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Reckon that would be worse for Arsenal. Lots of games (assuming they qualify and six group games anyway) and will highlight their already thin squad. There isn't much strength in depth there and I know from my own clubs experience that it affected our PL form and we were stretched.
		
Click to expand...

I think arsenals squad is actually perfect for europa. They have 30 players of very similar standard. Very few actual top CL class. So whilst they will have more matches. They have imo lots of reserves that won't weaken them in that comp too much.


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## fundy (Apr 2, 2017)

Everton are going to finish above us and comparing us to Fulham! Things are bad, pretty bad (relatively) right now but seriously Homer, they arent that bad!!!


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 2, 2017)

fundy said:



			Everton are going to finish above us and comparing us to Fulham! Things are bad, pretty bad (relatively) right now but seriously Homer, they arent that bad!!!
		
Click to expand...

Matter of opinion and the Merseyside derby aside, Everton have been playing well. Arsenal just seem dis-engaged to me. There just doesn't seem to be a spark. And I merely used Fulham's exploits as an example. To be honest, Wenger will field weak Europa sides and that will only help their development but it will only take one or two injuries to start stretching resources. Again just my opinion although to be fair to Arsenal, their reserve and squad players are a better quality of the Fulham ones at that time


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## fundy (Apr 2, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Matter of opinion and the Merseyside derby aside, Everton have been playing well. Arsenal just seem dis-engaged to me. There just doesn't seem to be a spark. And I merely used Fulham's exploits as an example. To be honest, Wenger will field weak Europa sides and that will only help their development but it will only take one or two injuries to start stretching resources. Again just my opinion although to be fair to Arsenal, their reserve and squad players are a better quality of the Fulham ones at that time
		
Click to expand...

wow you want to make any more assumptions? seasons not over yet still more than 20% chance they make top 4 according to the betting but youve put them in europa, you then assume Wenger will still be there next season (more than likely he wont be now imo) and that he will field weakened teams in Europa (on what do you base this as hes never been in the comp to assess how he would treat it?)

if you really fancy everton finish above arsenal ill have a score to H4H with you lol


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 2, 2017)

fundy said:



			wow you want to make any more assumptions? seasons not over yet still more than 20% chance they make top 4 according to the betting but youve put them in europa, you then assume Wenger will still be there next season (more than likely he wont be now imo) and that he will field weakened teams in Europa (on what do you base this as hes never been in the comp to assess how he would treat it?)

if you really fancy everton finish above arsenal ill have a score to H4H with you lol
		
Click to expand...

Simply an opinion. No need to get so hot under the collar and start offering bets (I'll decline). I don't k now if Wenger will be there, although I doubt it (but again you'll say I'm assuming) but how much rebuilding any new manager will do is also conjecture and yes I do think they'll be in the Europa league


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## fundy (Apr 2, 2017)

sorry thought you were being honest not giving opinions  not hot at all, quite happy for arsenal to miss out this year if its the catalyst for well overdue change


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Have you banged your head ?

Koeman was right, Can rolled like a fish out of water and needed no treatment, their bench is like a gang of girls at a Take That concert, look at the stats, they committed just about twice as many fouls as us, Lucas should've walked as all he did was persistently foul.

As for Barkley, they've got short memories, he's the same age now as when Slippy was diving in 2 footed and causing mayhem, but that was alright as he wore a red shirt!

They took their chances well and will laugh this season when Coutinho goes off to Spain.

Isn't this the 4th time this season a little gap has been growing and stated on here :rofl: :rofl: they won the league last October as well :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

Isnt this normally signed off EYG......


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## Swingalot (Apr 2, 2017)

chrisd said:



			Another good weekend (at last) great result and Swansea v Middlesborough draw helpful too, so I feel a bit easier
		
Click to expand...

Yeah not a bad weekend all things considered.......


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 3, 2017)

Brendan Rogers really does talk rubbish.


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## richy (Apr 3, 2017)

Has anyone seen the clip of Moyes saying he'll slap a woman reporter? Is that recent?


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 3, 2017)

richy said:



			Has anyone seen the clip of Moyes saying he'll slap a woman reporter? Is that recent?
		
Click to expand...

A few weeks ago I think. 
Sounds like it was said in jest & the women in question laughed it off. 
But you know what it's like these days.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 3, 2017)

richy said:



			Has anyone seen the clip of Moyes saying he'll slap a woman reporter? Is that recent?
		
Click to expand...

Typical everton behaviour that from Dignity Dave threatening women.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 3, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Typical everton behaviour that from Dignity Dave threatening women.
		
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Do one soft lad 
You lot only go after DJ's &#128515;


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## Stuart_C (Apr 3, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Do one soft lad 
You lot only go after DJ's &#128515;
		
Click to expand...

Least we don't threaten/beat women.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 3, 2017)

FA have apparently asked for Moyes to give a full statement. Very poor and his apology is cringe worthy too. Not a good example


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 3, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			FA have apparently asked for Moyes to give a full statement. Very poor and his apology is cringe worthy too. Not a good example
		
Click to expand...

You never said anything in jest?


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 3, 2017)

I can't believe the fuss about this. Both Moyes and the journalist are laughing about it in the clip. It's a comment on the lines of "you could have gone easy on me at the end there". If you read the transcript it will look poor but put it in context and there is nothing in it. I don't know why he apologised, he should have laughed it off. 

A non story.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 3, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I can't believe the fuss about this. Both Moyes and the journalist are laughing about it in the clip. It's a comment on the lines of "you could have gone easy on me at the end there". If you read the transcript it will look poor but put it in context and there is nothing in it. I don't know why he apologised, he should have laughed it off. 

A non story.
		
Click to expand...

I can believe it,their was some idiot banging on about sexism on SSN earlier. 
Worlds gone mad. 
People love to be offended & love a drama.

Like you say it's a non story really.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 3, 2017)

If the reporter had been a man would we be debating it or just laughing it off.
Females in football have enough to deal with she was not bothered .
get a life and stop phoning in stupid things like this.
It has to be seen in context.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 3, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			You never said anything in jest?
		
Click to expand...

Remember when Moyes went cry arsing to the press after Rafa called Everton a smaller club??


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## Slime (Apr 3, 2017)

Absolute storm in a tea cup. 
Someone is suffering from a mahoosive sense of humour failure.
As has been said before, some people just look to be offended, I think it makes them feel important.


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## richy (Apr 4, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			If the reporter had been a man would we be debating it or just laughing it off.
Females in football have enough to deal with she was not bothered .
get a life and stop phoning in stupid things like this.
It has to be seen in context.
		
Click to expand...

If the reporter had been a man do you think he'd of said it at all?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 4, 2017)

richy said:



			If the reporter had been a man do you think he'd of said it at all?
		
Click to expand...

Yes mate, I do, it was a bit of banter!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Remember when Moyes went cry arsing to the press after Rafa called Everton a smaller club??
		
Click to expand...

Also remember Fergie weighing in as well as the fat spanish waiter's comments were disrespectful and was out of order and caused more anomosity in the City than any other manager either team has had, before or since.


----------



## richy (Apr 4, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Also remember Fergie weighing in as well as the fat spanish waiter's comments were disrespectful and was out of order and caused more anomosity in the City than any other manager either team has had, before or since.
		
Click to expand...

Oh the irony!!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 4, 2017)

richy said:



			Oh the irony!!
		
Click to expand...

It wasn't banter from Benitez it was during an interview, horrible, horrible man :thup:


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## richy (Apr 4, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			It wasn't banter from Benitez it was during an interview, horrible, horrible man :thup:
		
Click to expand...

It was more about you calling him a far Spanish waiter. 

Seems you like to pick and choose what is or isn't banter and what's disrespectful or not


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 4, 2017)

richy said:



			It was more about you calling him a far Spanish waiter. 

Seems you like to pick and choose what is or isn't banter and what's disrespectful or not
		
Click to expand...

Can't stand him mate, genuinely saw blokes who'd been mates for over 30 years come to blows over the anomisty he caused.
If it wasn't for the fact I've got decent Geordie mates I'd be happy to see him fail in everything he does.
So if calling him a fat spanish waiter is ironic then fair enough, I'll accept it.


----------



## richy (Apr 4, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Can't stand him mate, genuinely saw blokes who'd been mates for over 30 years come to blows over the anomisty he caused.
If it wasn't for the fact I've got decent Geordie mates I'd be happy to see him fail in everything he does.
So if calling him a fat spanish waiter is ironic then fair enough, I'll accept it.
		
Click to expand...

If friends are coming to blows because of something a rival manager has said about their team then to me that says more about those supposed 'friends' than anything else. 

It's a game


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Also remember Fergie weighing in as well as the fat spanish waiter's comments were disrespectful and was out of order and caused more anomosity in the City than any other manager either team has had, before or since.
		
Click to expand...

How would you know living 200 miles away 

Dignity Dave wasn't squeaky clean neither, to blame Rafa is very bitter.

Ferguson weighed in because he knew Rafa was a threat to him and United. See how he  changed with Wenger when they weren't direct rivals? The same with "Big Sam".


----------



## MegaSteve (Apr 4, 2017)

richy said:



			If the reporter had been a man do you think he'd of said it at all?
		
Click to expand...


If you were a girl you'd get a slap!

Yes, I'd take him to task about that...

But, not for what he actually said in the context he said it...


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			How would you know living 200 miles away 

Dignity Dave wasn't squeaky clean neither, to blame Rafa is very bitter.

Ferguson weighed in because he knew Rafa was a threat to him and United. See how he  changed with Wenger when they weren't direct rivals? The same with "Big Sam".
		
Click to expand...

:thup:


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			How would you know living 200 miles away 

Dignity Dave wasn't squeaky clean neither, to blame Rafa is very bitter.

Ferguson weighed in because he knew Rafa was a threat to him and United. See how he  changed with Wenger when they weren't direct rivals? The same with "Big Sam".
		
Click to expand...

The "peoples club" comment - ok for the other side. We just laughed at that one, whereas they threw their toys out the pram.

At least Rafa was being honest, and correct.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 4, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			The "peoples club" comment - ok for the other side. We just laughed at that one, whereas they threw their toys out the pram.

At least Rafa was being honest, and correct.

Click to expand...

We've discussed this one Pete and unfortunately we'll probably always disagree&#128515;
Thanks for posting on here though, I thought we were not worthy :rofl:


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 4, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			We've discussed this one Pete and unfortunately we'll probably always disagree&#62979;
Thanks for posting on here though, I thought we were not worthy :rofl: 

Click to expand...

Cant remember what you said, so must have been rubbish.

Dip in now and again, that's it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 4, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Cant remember what you said, so must have been rubbish.

Dip in now and again, that's it.
		
Click to expand...

Rubbish and dip in, in the same post, clever that mate, seen what you did there, some may of missed it


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 4, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Rubbish and dip in, in the same post, clever that mate, seen what you did there, some may of missed it 

Click to expand...

That sub-conscious is a one, isn't he.:mmm:


----------



## Tashyboy (Apr 4, 2017)

The power of football eh

theres a story on the BBC website about a 13 yr old kid watching the Leicester game tonite, he beat Luekemia and he said his inspiration was Leicester City. Have a gud un tonite Travis.

anyone know how to post a link coz am thick and the wine is flowing.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 4, 2017)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-39493027

Here you go Tashy me man :thup:


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 4, 2017)

Must not get carried away
Must not get carried away
Must not get carried away
Must not get carried away
Must not.......


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 4, 2017)

With what??


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Must not get carried away
Must not get carried away
Must not get carried away
Must not get carried away
Must not.......
		
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Do you know who you're supporting tonight?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Do you know who you're supporting tonight?
		
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Do one


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## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Do one 

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Lukaku never does it against the top sides....


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Lukaku never does it against the top sides....
		
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Should score tonight then


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Lukaku never does it against the top sides....
		
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I don't care if Robles scores so long as we win :whoo:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Should score tonight then
		
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Seriously, I think hes overrated.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Seriously, I think hes overrated.
		
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I think ability wise he has the lot but agree that he is overrated in terms of he seems to score well against the lower level teams - bit of a flat track bully


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Seriously, I think hes overrated.
		
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Only 23 so for his age the potential is there, needs to prove it with a Barca or Bayern type of team for me, he'll always score goals in the Prem.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2017)

Why is Lukaku hiding behind Rojo?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Why is Lukaku hiding behind Rojo?
		
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Seems unable to have a look around at his options - plenty of times on the break he has been greedy when he had a teammate in open space


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Seriously, I think hes overrated.
		
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He scores consistently and has done since a season with West Brom. You'd turn his goals down? He's 23, plenty of time to get even better.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He scores consistently and has done since a season with West Brom. You'd turn his goals down? He's 23, plenty of time to get even better.
		
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I'm not doubting his record, I just don't believe he's as good as what people are saying he is.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2017)

Are we seeing a wrong offside decision  even itself out tonight?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 4, 2017)

Last minute penalty!!! Gutted


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 4, 2017)

That's the best result again


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 4, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Last minute penalty!!! Gutted
		
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Was it a correct decision? I know you have access to all matches.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 4, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Was it a correct decision? I know you have access to all matches.
		
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Yes it was a penalty - maybe not a red card and possibly the keeper could have got to it


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 4, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Was it a correct decision? I know you have access to all matches.
		
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Defo mate, Ashley Williams dived to save a shot and a red card!!!


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## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Was it a correct decision? I know you have access to all matches.
		
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Nailed on.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2017)

Should Mourinho be doing better with that squad in this league?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Should Mourinho be doing better with that squad in this league?
		
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Yes - a lot of money spent with so far the Best Buy being the free transfer


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 4, 2017)

I've followed the game on the BBC website. Lawrenson is very scathing of the lack of shape, direction and general organisation. That is all down to the manager.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I've followed the game on the BBC website. Lawrenson is very scathing of the lack of shape, direction and general organisation. That is all down to the manager.
		
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I didn't think Everton  played that bad, Lukaku was poor.


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## sawtooth (Apr 4, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I've followed the game on the BBC website. Lawrenson is very scathing of the lack of shape, direction and general organisation. That is all down to the manager.
		
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What would you expect from Lawrenson? Anti United and Arsenal most of the time and he only pipes up when his team is doing OK.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Should Mourinho be doing better with that squad in this league?
		
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Not really, shambles last season, all new managers should be given time, still in with a shout of top 4, for first season I'd say him and Pep will have stronger teams next season, he'll be having a clearout this summer.


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## Junior (Apr 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Should Mourinho be doing better with that squad in this league?
		
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Yes, we're head and shoulders a better side under Jose than LVG & Moyes and I'm happy with how we have improved, but I think we should be a top 4 side. Tough ask now, but hopefully next year.   We will miss Mata the rest of the season....the last 2 games we have had 62% and 75% of the ball, 18 shots in each match and only scored 1 goal.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I didn't think Everton  played that bad, Lukaku was poor.
		
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Lukaku wasn't given the service, he strengthened midfield expecting them to have the majority of possession.
They had the better chances and I'd of been unhappy we'd of had the Ibra goal disallowed.
Still happy with Koeman's first season, better than I'd hoped.


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## Slime (Apr 4, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I've followed the game on the BBC website. Lawrenson is very scathing of the lack of shape, direction and general organisation. That is all down to the manager.
		
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I wouldn't take too much notice of him when talking about United, he used to play for Liverpool!
Try as they might, ex Liverpool players find it very difficult not to be biased and I don't mean that as a criticism in any way. I just think it's in their DNA ..................... and so it should be.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 4, 2017)

Junior said:



			Yes, we're head and shoulders a better side under Jose than LVG & Moyes and I'm happy with how we have improved, but I think we should be a top 4 side. Tough ask now, but hopefully next year.   We will miss Mata the rest of the season....the last 2 games we have had 62% and 75% of the ball, 18 shots in each match and only scored 1 goal.  

Click to expand...

You're still in Europe, got one trophy, tbh top 4 was going to be tough and you still might get it.


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## Kellfire (Apr 4, 2017)

Lukaku was woeful again tonight. Flat track bully. He makes so many wrong decisions and looks jaded and out of ideas in so many big matches. He's a good poacher but that's it.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 4, 2017)

Fair result I think at Old Trafford especially with the incorrect offside decision. Saw rumours Zlatan is off to the MLS next year. For a freebie his been a good signing for United and if they can get the extra year from him it must help their push forward next season although you could argue that he may be a year older and will he peter out?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 4, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Lukaku was woeful again tonight. Flat track bully. He makes so many wrong decisions and looks jaded and out of ideas in so many big matches. He's a good poacher but that's it.
		
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You's get a last minute equaliser against a Club below you's, by your opinion Lukaku was woeful, so in effect you couldn't beat 10 men :rofl:
Why not comment on your own poor display :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			What would you expect from Lawrenson? Anti United and Arsenal most of the time and he only pipes up when his team is doing OK.
		
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What's wrong with being anti United?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Lukaku was woeful again tonight. Flat track bully. He makes so many wrong decisions and looks jaded and out of ideas in so many big matches. He's a good poacher but that's it.
		
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Spot on. :clap: :clap:


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## sawtooth (Apr 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			What's wrong with being anti United?
		
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Nothing. I was tonight.&#128513;

But Lawrenson is so bias it's untrue.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Fair result I think at Old Trafford especially with the incorrect offside decision. Saw rumours Zlatan is off to the MLS next year. For a freebie his been a good signing for United and if they can get the extra year from him it must help their push forward next season although you could argue that he may be a year older and will he peter out?
		
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They benefited from an offside goal against us a few weeks ago, it's evened itself out.


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## Slime (Apr 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			What's wrong with being anti United?
		
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Good point, well made ................. I really can't counter that :thup:.

Bugger .


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## Junior (Apr 5, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			You're still in Europe, got one trophy, tbh top 4 was going to be tough and you still might get it.
		
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I know mate.   Im not dissapointed at our season. I just fancied us for top 4.   We're building a good side and have spent a wedge.  We're playing much better football this year and just need to find a way to turn the home draws into wins!


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 5, 2017)

Slime said:



			I wouldn't take too much notice of him when talking about United, he used to play for Liverpool!
Try as they might, ex Liverpool players find it very difficult not to be biased and I don't mean that as a criticism in any way. I just think it's in their DNA ..................... and so it should be.
		
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You do know Utd were playing Everton? You do know the geography, history etc? When Lawrenson was playing Utd were not a threat, they were a cup team. Everton were a threat in the league, cups etc for a decent period of his time.

Your comment would be fine if it were anyone but Everton last night.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 5, 2017)

I've just seen the Williams handball. Brain freeze. Only excuse is tiredness at the end of a game. Aargggghhhhhh. It's going to annoy me most of the day &#128545;


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## Stuart_C (Apr 5, 2017)

Slime said:



			Good point, well made ................. I really can't counter that :thup:.

Bugger .
		
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:rofl: :ears:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 5, 2017)

Slime said:



			Good point, well made ................. I really can't counter that :thup:.

Bugger .
		
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Apart from more fans are anti-Lpool :whoo:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Spot on. :clap: :clap:
		
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He'd improve your team, #PLtopgoalscorer :ears:


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## Hobbit (Apr 5, 2017)

Lukaku has 21 goals in 30 games this season, and people are dissing him? Unbelievable Jeff!

I'm sure pretty much every club in the land would be happy to have him on their books.

Pity Everton didn't win, as it would have pushed Arsenal down to 7th. Maybe then the board would have woken up to the fact that something radical needs doing. 7pts off 4th, 3 games, and 18pts off top.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 5, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Lukaku has 21 goals in 30 games this season, and people are dissing him? Unbelievable Jeff!

I'm sure pretty much every club in the land would be happy to have him on their books.

Pity Everton didn't win, as it would have pushed Arsenal down to 7th. Maybe then the board would have woken up to the fact that something radical needs doing. 7pts off 4th, 3 games, and 18pts off top.
		
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It's jealousy Bri, they keep watching him and wondering how much better they'd be if he played for them :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 5, 2017)

Great tribute last night by Charlton to PC Keith Palmer, :thup:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 5, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			He'd improve your team, #PLtopgoalscorer :ears:
		
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The same was said about Benteke 

We've already got one lazy fecker up front, we dont need another one :ears:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 5, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Lukaku has 21 goals in 30 games this season, and people are dissing him? Unbelievable Jeff!

I'm sure pretty much every club in the land would be happy to have him on their books.

Pity Everton didn't win, as it would have pushed Arsenal down to 7th. Maybe then the board would have woken up to the fact that something radical needs doing. 7pts off 4th, 3 games, and 18pts off top.
		
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I'm not dissing him, I think hes a very good striker  on his day and his record is excellent I just don't think hes as good as people/press are building him up to be. Â£50m + seems to be his value, I'm not too sure.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			The same was said about Benteke 

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Because since Suarez you lot know all about decent centre forwards :rofl:
#CarrollIngsorigisturridgeibelambertborinibalotelli


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm not dissing him, I think hes a very good striker  on his day and his record is excellent I just don't think hes as good as people/press are building him up to be. Â£50m + seems to be his value, I'm not too sure.
		
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Paying Â£35m for Carroll, Â£50m is a bargain


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## Stuart_C (Apr 5, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Because since Suarez you lot know all about decent centre forwards :rofl:
#CarrollIngsorigisturridgeibelambertborinibalotelli
		
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What about to name a few  Rush Aldridge Fowler Collymore Owen Torres Bellamy and voronin?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 5, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Paying Â£35m for Carroll, Â£50m is a bargain 

Click to expand...

 If we're comparing , what about Â£22m for Suarez?

According to our wonderful owners, the most important number in that deal Was The Â£15m PROFIT. We could've paid Â£50m for Carroll as long as we got Â£65m for Torres.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			What about to name a few  Rush Aldridge Fowler Collymore Owen Torres Bellamy and voronin?
		
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Did you miss the word SINCE :ears:


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			What about to name a few  Rush Aldridge Fowler Collymore Owen Torres Bellamy and voronin?
		
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I can't believe you have thrown Bellamy and Voronin in there, or Collymore for that matter. All ancient history though. Suarez was exceptional, Sturridge could have been and well worth buying, although not now. The rest since Owen have not been much to shout about. I'm not going to get into a strikers battle as we don't have much to shout about either. The point is, you have spent a lot and bought poorly at that end of the pitch. 

I understand the criticism of Lukaku but in this crazy market a bloke who scores as often as he does over a number of seasons is worth a disturbing amount.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			If we're comparing , what about Â£22m for Suarez?

According to our wonderful owners, the most important number in that deal Was The Â£15m PROFIT. We could've paid Â£50m for Carroll as long as we got Â£65m for Torres.
		
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You sound like an Arsenal fan, all this talk of profit over success on the pitch. :rofl:


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## pbrown7582 (Apr 5, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Lukaku was woeful again tonight. Flat track bully. He makes so many wrong decisions and looks jaded and out of ideas in so many big matches. He's a good poacher but that's it.
		
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shouldn't there be a big Ssssssssssssh after Lukaku?


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## Sportlad (Apr 5, 2017)

It's very strange seeing Voronin's name mentioned alongside Rush, Fowler, Owen etc...


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## User62651 (Apr 5, 2017)

Watched the whole ManU Everton game on BT last night. As a neutral just wanted a decent match and the fact Everton didn't do a West Brom style park the bus affair made it a half decent game in many respects BUT so frustrating watching ManU try to score, loads of possession but no end product and 2 big slow target men in Fallaini and Ibra. No ideas and quite sad watching them, ponderous and static, compared to the attacking teams we saw so much of in the past. Mourinho has a huge amount to do there, looked far more than just a confidence issue to me. Needing at least 2 midfielders and 2 strikers going forward imo. 
Everton I was quite impressed with BUT Lukaku did himself no favours looking for a move with his display, some good runs but positionally poor, lazy on occasion to support Mirallas and Barkley and so greedy, at least thrice he had a simple pass to teammate through on goal that he chose to ignore to try and get a shot off himself  whilst being harangued by 2 defenders.
Agreed with the pundits assessment of him and their thinking that a top ECL team will not want him given the weaknesses in his game.
A draw was fair on balance of play and a good goal disallowed but hard on Everton given the manner and timing of ManU goal.


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## Slime (Apr 5, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			A draw was fair on balance of play and a good goal disallowed but hard on Everton given the manner and timing of ManU goal.
		
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It wasn't so hard on them when United had a goal incorrectly disallowed .
Oh how the game may have changed, I think Utd would have gone on to win.


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## User62651 (Apr 5, 2017)

Slime said:



			It wasn't so hard on them when United had a goal incorrectly disallowed .
Oh how the game may have changed, I think Utd would have gone on to win.
		
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Guessing by your signature location you're not neutral in this?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 5, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			You sound like an Arsenal fan, all this talk of profit over success on the pitch. :rofl:
		
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I'm only repeating what JW Henry said, it's not my opinion or point to back the argument up.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm only repeating what JW Henry said, it's not my opinion or point to back the argument up.
		
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So now JW can be trusted


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## Hobbit (Apr 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm not dissing him, I think hes a very good striker  on his day and his record is excellent I just don't think hes as good as people/press are building him up to be. Â£50m + seems to be his value, I'm not too sure.
		
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Imagine how many goals he'd score in a good team!!

A move to Arsenal could see them getting back up to 4th.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 5, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			So now JW can be trusted  

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Who said that?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 5, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I can't believe you have thrown Bellamy and Voronin in there, or Collymore for that matter. All ancient history though. Suarez was exceptional, Sturridge could have been and well worth buying, although not now. The rest since Owen have not been much to shout about. *I'm not going to get into a strikers battle as we don't have much to shout about either*. The point is, you have spent a lot and bought poorly at that end of the pitch. 

I understand the criticism of Lukaku but in this crazy market a bloke who scores as often as he does over a number of seasons is worth a disturbing amount.
		
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Did you forget Torres pretty much replaced Owen?? His record was superb.

I was pish taking with the Voronin comment though.


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## User62651 (Apr 5, 2017)

Can or will Leicester City win the Champions League? They can certainly get past Athletico if they play as they have been recently. Perhaps it's not as long a shot as people might think. Final's in Cardiff too, not quite home advantage but next best thing should they make the final.

Fiver at 25/1 is quite tempting.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I was pish taking with every comment though.
		
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Fixed that for you :whoo:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 5, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Can or will Leicester City win the Champions League? They can certainly get past Athletico if they play as they have been recently. Perhaps it's not as long a shot as people might think. Final's in Cardiff too, not quite home advantage but next best thing should they make the final.

Fiver at 25/1 is quite tempting.
		
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I'd love Leicester to get through and even win it, once again Sky and PL not helping them by having them as the 4pm kick off on sunday.


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## User62651 (Apr 5, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I'd love Leicester to get through and even win it, once again Sky and PL not helping them by having them as the 4pm kick off on sunday.
		
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Maybe Shalespeare will field some reserves, looks like Leicester are safe enough in 10th now so priority will be ECL surely.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 5, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Maybe Shalespeare will field some reserves, looks like Leicester are safe enough in 10th now so priority will be ECL surely.
		
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Would be nice to see us help our clubs though, every other team through plays on saturday.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Did you forget Torres pretty much replaced Owen?? His record was superb.

I was pish taking with the Voronin comment though.
		
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To be honest I had forgotten about Torres. He has been a shadow of his former self for so long that I had forgotten he used to be good. Are you still having Bellamy and Collymore though?


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## Slime (Apr 5, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Guessing by your signature location you're not neutral in this?

Click to expand...


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## Kellfire (Apr 5, 2017)

Naughty Liverpool. Not that it'll matter.


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## Slime (Apr 5, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Naughty Liverpool. Not that it'll matter.
		
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So it would appear .................. tut, tut Liverpool.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 5, 2017)

Slime said:



			So it would appear .................. tut, tut Liverpool.
		
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Can't say I'm surprised tbh. 
Good to see the Premier League acting on it.


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## Fish (Apr 5, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Naughty Liverpool. Not that it'll matter.
		
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Liverpool have been fined Â£100,000 by the Premier League and handed a two-year ban on signing academy players from other clubs for a rule breach.

It relates to the club's approach to a 12-year-old academy player at Stoke City in September last year.

Liverpool will be banned from signing any academy players who have been registered with a Premier League or EFL club in the previous 18 months.

This second year of the ban will be suspended for a three-year period.

In September 2016 Liverpool made an application to register the Stoke City Academy player and compensation was agreed.

But the application was rejected by the Premier League Board.

An investigation by the Premier League found that Liverpool spoke to the youngster and his family before they should have and also paid for him and some of his family to attend a game at Anfield.

Liverpool also offered to pay the player's school fees, which were being paid by Stoke at this time, but this was a breach of newly-introduced regulations which state a benefit can only be offered if it is applicable to all youngsters across the club's academy and this was not the case.

Premier League rules ban the offer of any inducements from clubs to encourage a move.

Liverpool have admitted the rule breaches.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			Liverpool have been fined Â£100,000 by the Premier League and handed a two-year ban on signing academy players from other clubs for a rule breach.

It relates to the club's approach to a 12-year-old academy player at Stoke City in September last year.

Liverpool will be banned from signing any academy players who have been registered with a Premier League or EFL club in the previous 18 months.

This second year of the ban will be suspended for a three-year period.

In September 2016 Liverpool made an application to register the Stoke City Academy player and compensation was agreed.

But the application was rejected by the Premier League Board.

An investigation by the Premier League found that Liverpool spoke to the youngster and his family before they should have and also paid for him and some of his family to attend a game at Anfield.

Liverpool also offered to pay the player's school fees, which were being paid by Stoke at this time, but this was a breach of newly-introduced regulations which state a benefit can only be offered if it is applicable to all youngsters across the club's academy and this was not the case.

Premier League rules ban the offer of any inducements from clubs to encourage a move.

Liverpool have admitted the rule breaches.
		
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Er they have not even got a slap on the wrist. Only the promise of a slap of the wrist in future. Me I would of relegated them to the the conferance north.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 5, 2017)

I know we are getting beat 2-1 with three sloppy goals scored but. With a right winger at right back, a centre half whose name ave forgot, and Delph in midfield. Ave been quite impressed by City. 
That aside I have been a bit Suprised by Chelsea's lack of being ability to keep hold of the ball..Is that there style of play?


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## Jensen (Apr 5, 2017)

This Tottenham side have some real steel to them. Now we don't give up, we keep going to the end and get our rewards. Tottenham for years have been a soft touch on the road, but not any longer.
Come on you Spurs


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## guest100718 (Apr 5, 2017)

Jensen said:



			This Tottenham side have some real steel to them. Now we don't give up, we keep going to the end and get our rewards. Tottenham for years have been a soft touch on the road, but not any longer.
Come on you Spurs
		
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COYS


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## Tashyboy (Apr 5, 2017)

Yup we got beat but that was as good a performance as ave seen from City for a bit


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## Jensen (Apr 5, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Yup we got beat but that was as good a performance as ave seen from City for a bit
		
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What was the Stones miss from 6 yards, was it really as bad as reported on Sky


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 5, 2017)

I see the gap to top 4 has closed a little tonight &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 5, 2017)

Jensen said:



			What was the Stones miss from 6 yards, was it really as bad as reported on Sky
		
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No, took a deflection and was behind him.


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## Jensen (Apr 5, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			No, took a deflection and was behind him.
		
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So Charlie Nicholas was exaggerating then,,,,typical gooner &#128516;


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## sawtooth (Apr 5, 2017)

Jensen said:



			What was the Stones miss from 6 yards, was it really as bad as reported on Sky
		
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Yes he had a nightmare, his reaction after he skied it from 6 yards said it all.

Â£50M but apparently he's still learning the game.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 5, 2017)

Jensen said:



			So Charlie Nicholas was exaggerating then,,,,typical gooner &#128516;
		
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He did well to get something on it, the deflection knocked it behind him.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 5, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Yup we got beat but that was as good a performance as ave seen from City for a bit
		
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City played some nice football but a lot of the time crosses into the box there's nobody there.
if Aguero comes for the ball short there's no body getting in front of him.
City had some good chances but nearly all were straight at the keeper.

Pep never changed anything until to late.
Good game though.

Have watched Liverpool do this so many times this year played well with most of the possession but lose.

Klopp should sit his players down tomorrow and make them watch Chelsea defend a lead .
Was looking like joint second but ended five points behind Spurs now.
Best team in the prem that's why they are top well played.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 5, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yes he had a nightmare, his reaction after he skied it from 6 yards said it all.

Â£50M but apparently he's still learning the game.
		
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Great defensive clearance then! They didn't pay Â£50m for his attacking qualities.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 5, 2017)

Good wins for Spurs and Arsenal but not so good for City and Liverpool who have played more than those around them. It's a melting point for top four Think the top three will get in and then pick one more. Hard call. I wonder if Jose could get United into the frame


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## Tashyboy (Apr 5, 2017)

My lad went and watched sheff Utd tonight me with son in law. Came in and was spitting feathers. Was listening to talk sport and said it was just " wind up " radio. Nowt has changed there then.
glad to see Kompany get 90 mins in. Need to see how he is tomorrow though.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 6, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That's the best result again 

Click to expand...


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## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2017)

Two stupid individual errors cost us more points for the umpteenth time this season. 

The ref was absolutely shocking though he wasn't the reason we never won.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 6, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Two stupid individual errors cost us more points for the umpteenth time this season. 

The ref was absolutely shocking though he wasn't the reason we never won.
		
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Did every LPool fan on here go the match with you and Pete last night?
Just seemed very quiet after the noises tuesday night when yous didn't play


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## Hobbit (Apr 6, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Two stupid individual errors cost us more points for the umpteenth time this season. 

The ref was absolutely shocking though he wasn't the reason we never won.
		
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C'mon Stu, 'pool were at home against a team in 14th position. Even if the ref was doing handstands in the centre circle you should have put that game to bed.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			C'mon Stu, 'pool were at home against a team in 14th position. Even if the ref was doing handstands in the centre circle you should have put that game to bed.
		
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We should've won, they created very little but we pressed the self destruct button again.

Mason was shocking though.


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## Fish (Apr 6, 2017)

We won't get a tougher game than that and pull it off, although with some good fortune, but that's the only difference sometimes.

Best I've seen City play, fast, intense, quick passing, they dominated large parts of the game but weren't clinical when the opportunities arose.

We can, although it scares me at times, sit and wait for our chances as our defence is very good in the main and our midfield works very hard.  Excellent change by Conte putting Matic on when City were running through us at will.

When our chances come or we force errors we punish teams, possession stats mean nothing at times, it's how many of them their round things in the back of the net is the sole end game and I'm glad that games behind us now.

It's hotting up for that 4th spot now, although I think Man Utd have missed the boat, I said ages ago that goal difference could be key, and points already in the bag against games in hand are just a wishlist at best.

Whoever gets that 4th spot I don't think will have earned it outright, all the contenders have been throwing results and points away giving each other hope and it could all go to the wire on goal difference.

The run in is now key....our last 3 are away to West Brom but either side of that at home to Middlesbrough & Sunderland and we have Watford at home to rearrange.

Spurs have 4 London derbies (Watford, Palace, Arsenal, West Ham) and Man Utd also, they have momentum but they've got some good scraps coming up with a semi-final in between!

Is it now only a 2 horse race, City are 14 points adrift with 8 to play, are we capable of losing 5 matches and them going unbeaten?


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 6, 2017)

Fish - Put your feet up mate, the titles yours. Best team this year, no question. I don't even hate Chelsea this year, no sneering and snarling managers or players, Costa excluded although he is pure panto villain and so we just laugh at him. It will be interesting to see how you progress next year and deal with Champions League as well. That puts you on a level playing field with the other top teams. The good news for you is that whilst City and Utd need quite significant surgery this summer you just need steady additions. Easy summer for you with little disruption. Conte = Manager of the season without question.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 6, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fish - Put your feet up mate, the titles yours. Best team this year, no question. I don't even hate Chelsea this year, no sneering and snarling managers or players, Costa excluded although he is pure panto villain and so we just laugh at him. It will be interesting to see how you progress next year and deal with Champions League as well. That puts you on a level playing field with the other top teams. The good news for you is that whilst City and Utd need quite significant surgery this summer you just need steady additions. Easy summer for you with little disruption. Conte = Manager of the season without question.
		
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Definitely been impressed by Conte's first season. Has brought a winning mentality back to the club and the players look to be enjoying it (easy when you're winning of course). I think they do need one or two top class players to really get on an even keel with Real, Barca or Bayern, but get those and you can see them being a major force in the CL next year


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## Tashyboy (Apr 6, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Definitely been impressed by Conte's first season. Has brought a winning mentality back to the club and the players look to be enjoying it (easy when you're winning of course). I think they do need one or two top class players to really get on an even keel with Real, Barca or Bayern, but get those and you can see them being a major force in the CL next year
		
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I said this at the beginning of the season, my Italian football friends said he was the man to be feared.


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## guest100718 (Apr 7, 2017)

10 draws.. Jose seems to think 10 draws are better than 5 wins and 5 losses. Good luck to him


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## Fish (Apr 8, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			10 draws.. Jose seems to think 10 draws are better than 5 wins and 5 losses. Good luck to him
		
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I read a stat somewhere that Utd had as many 0-0 draws at home in the last few years than they had over 3 decades!  They simply don't have a selfish or clinical goalscorer and they don't score from across the the squad, which used to be one of their biggest threats.  If the strikers aren't on form or get marked out the game, they don't have option B.


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## Kellfire (Apr 8, 2017)

Fish said:



			They simply don't have a selfish or clinical goalscorer
		
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Zlatan?


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## Fish (Apr 8, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Zlatan?
		
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Is 0.62 goals per match good enough in the prem if other players aren't scoring also? 
Is there far too much reliability being put on 1 player? 
If he doesn't get the service and has to go looking for it, is he that kind of utility striker/player? 

He's also not the future, so who/what do then need?


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## Hobbit (Apr 8, 2017)

Fish said:



			I read a stat somewhere that Utd had as many 0-0 draws at home in the last few years than they had over 3 decades!  They simply don't have a selfish or clinical goalscorer and they don't score from across the the squad, which used to be one of their biggest threats.  If the strikers aren't on form or get marked out the game, they don't have option B.
		
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Its more than just strikers though. How many tap in's are the strikers getting? Very few. Poor quality in midfield, including service up front, and not many goals from there...


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 8, 2017)

How much did Spurs pay for Alli?


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## Papas1982 (Apr 8, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			How much did Spurs pay for Alli?
		
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A little less than the Â£30m they may pay for Lamela.....


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## guest100718 (Apr 8, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			How much did Spurs pay for Alli?
		
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he only cost 5 mil...


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 8, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			he only cost 5 mil...
		
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Not a bad bit of business. 
What do you reckon his value is now? 
Â£50-Â£60m


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## guest100718 (Apr 8, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not a bad bit of business. 
What do you reckon his value is now? 
Â£50-Â£60m
		
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Who knows. he was almost a Liverpool player.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 8, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			Who knows. he was almost a Liverpool player.
		
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&#128514;&#128514; o yeah,bet they're gutted.


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## sawtooth (Apr 8, 2017)

"Wise decision to start Woodburn and Alexander-Arnold, as they provide the needed speed "

Serious question for Liverpool supporters, is Woodburn quick? I didn't think so in the games I've seen him play.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 8, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			"Wise decision to start Woodburn and Alexander-Arnold, as they provide the needed speed "

Serious question for Liverpool supporters, is Woodburn quick? I didn't think so in the games I've seen him play.
		
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with their small squad, injuries to key players were always likely to hinder them. That said, i'm off the opinion that if a player makes the squad they should be fit enough to start, so would have started the bigger names and brought on the youngsters if struggling. Thinka youngseter coming on has nothing to lose and will be ok confidence wise, where as taking them off as soon as things go wrong could harm their confidence..


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 8, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			with their small squad, injuries to key players were always likely to hinder them. That said, i'm off the opinion that if a player makes the squad they should be fit enough to start, so would have started the bigger names and brought on the youngsters if struggling. Thinka youngseter coming on has nothing to lose and will be ok confidence wise, where as taking them off as soon as things go wrong could harm their confidence..
		
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Seems like everyone apart from Klopp knew that the squad wasn't good enough.


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## sawtooth (Apr 8, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			with their small squad, injuries to key players were always likely to hinder them. That said, i'm off the opinion that if a player makes the squad they should be fit enough to start, so would have started the bigger names and brought on the youngsters if struggling. Thinka youngseter coming on has nothing to lose and will be ok confidence wise, where as taking them off as soon as things go wrong could harm their confidence..
		
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Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with starting with these youngsters. I just didn't think Woodburn was all that quick that's all, watched him a few weeks ago and he was running full pelt and losing ground on the player with the ball that he was trying to catch.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 8, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with starting with these youngsters. I just didn't think Woodburn was all that quick that's all, watched him a few weeks ago and he was running full pelt and losing ground on the player with the ball that he was trying to catch.
		
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Was it Bellerin?That boy has some speed!


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## sawtooth (Apr 8, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Was it Bellerin?That boy has some speed!
		
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No it wasn't Bellerin, most would look slow trying to catch him. I cant remember who it was but the striker ran from deep with the ball and ended up scoring. Maybe Woodburn was simply knackered that day or the striker was blisteringly quick?

Would be interested in hearing from someone who watches Woodburn a lot.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 8, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			No it wasn't Bellerin, most would look slow trying to catch him. I cant remember who it was but the striker ran from deep with the ball and ended up scoring. Maybe Woodburn was simply knackered that day or the striker was blisteringly quick?

Would be interested in hearing from someone who watches Woodburn a lot.
		
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Who was that quote from that you found ?

Yes Woodburn is a pretty quick player , it's one of his attributes.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 8, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			No it wasn't Bellerin, most would look slow trying to catch him. I cant remember who it was but the striker ran from deep with the ball and ended up scoring. Maybe Woodburn was simply knackered that day or the striker was blisteringly quick?

Would be interested in hearing from someone who watches Woodburn a lot.
		
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I'm sure Stu will av seen a fair bit of him.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 8, 2017)

That's a pretty big three points - great fightback. :whoo:


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 8, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That's a pretty big three points - great fightback. :whoo:
		
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Nice to have you back on the thread Phil &#128077;&#127995;


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 8, 2017)

Chelsea march on again but thought Spurs looked fantastic at lunchtime. Really enjoy watching them.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 8, 2017)

Scruffy victory today, proper scruffy, had to leave 10 mins early to get back for baby sitting duties. Til we went back and found Missis Ts phone she had dropped. Anyway, apparantly I missed another shocker from Bravo.
Nowt new there then.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2017)

Credit where credit is due, Mignolet was deservedly MOTM yesterday.  He's taken loads of criticism and most of it has been fair but yesterday he was immense.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 9, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Credit where credit is due, Mignolet was deservedly MOTM yesterday.  He's taken loads of criticism and most of it has been fair but yesterday he was immense.
		
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Performances like he put in yesterday is in some ways the most frustrating part about him, he's always had the potential to be one of the best in Europe, the Sunderland fans up here have always say on his day he is one of the best keepers they'd ever had.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 9, 2017)

My cousin watches Liverpool home and away. He describes Mignolet as a cracking shot stopper but a total flapper on crosses. As this is England that is a bit of an issue. You have to be good at all aspects to be a top keeper, not just part of the game.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Performances like he put in yesterday is in some ways the most frustrating part about him, he's always had the potential to be one of the best in Europe, the Sunderland fans up here have always say on his day he is one of the best keepers they'd ever had.
		
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Yesterday's performances are too few and far between, he's cost us more points than any other keeper I can remember and that's including David James!!


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 9, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Yesterday's performances are too few and far between, he's cost us more points than any other keeper I can remember and that's including David James!!
		
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Yes but put into perspective the goalkeeper is the MOM when the rest of the team are playing poorly .
If Minolet had not saved some of them yesterday we would be blaming the defence.
He has made some howlers over time but all keepers do that.
I think I would be nervous behind Liverpools defence.
Citys keepers are in the same situation.
Liverpools defence is wide open and needs sorting but week after week we make the same mistakes that includes the keeper, as he does not inspire confidence in the defenders.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but put into perspective the goalkeeper is the MOM when the rest of the team are playing poorly .
If Minolet had not saved some of them yesterday we would be blaming the defence.
He has made some howlers over time but all keepers do that.
I think I would be nervous behind Liverpools defence.
Citys keepers are in the same situation.
Liverpools defence is wide open and needs sorting but week after week we make the same mistakes that includes the keeper, as he does not inspire confidence in the defenders.
		
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I'm the 1st one to criticise Mingolet so its only right when he's had a blinder I acknowledge his performance. I agree all keepers make howlers but none as many as Mingolet. I am not suggesting he's the answer to our problems neither.

We're down to our bare bones  and Matip apart I'd happily replace the rest of our defence. Klopp tried something different yesterday, something you and many others have said he doesn't have a plan B,  And I don't think it worked because he hasn't got the players to play that formation.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2017)

I think Jose has lost it. Fellaini captain :rofl: :rofl:


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## Kellfire (Apr 9, 2017)

No issue with him being captain, it means nothing. I have an issue with him playing.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 9, 2017)

If you listen carefully, right before Luke Shaw takes the corner kicks, you can hear Mourinho shouting "you're gonna f*ck this up, fattie".

&#128514;


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## sawtooth (Apr 9, 2017)

That was a joke decision, easily the worst I've seen this season.

No way a red card.


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## Kellfire (Apr 9, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			That was a joke decision, easily the worst I've seen this season.

No way a red card.
		
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Nonsense. It was borderline at worst. Worst decision of the season? Have a word.


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## sawtooth (Apr 9, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Nonsense. It was borderline at worst. Worst decision of the season? Have a word.
		
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Herrera is a cheat pure and simple.


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## Kellfire (Apr 9, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Herrera is a cheat pure and simple.
		
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Cheat? For being kicked? Haha good one.


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## sawtooth (Apr 9, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Cheat? For being kicked? Haha good one.
		
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For feigning injury and waving at the ref. Detestable player.


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## Old Skier (Apr 9, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			For feigning injury and waving at the ref. Detestable player.
		
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No different from a lot of current PL players then.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 9, 2017)

Not a red for me,very harsh.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 9, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm the 1st one to criticise Mingolet so its only right when he's had a blinder I acknowledge his performance. I agree all keepers make howlers but none as many as Mingolet. I am not suggesting he's the answer to our problems neither.

We're down to our bare bones  and Matip apart I'd happily replace the rest of our defence. Klopp tried something different yesterday, something you and many others have said he doesn't have a plan B,  And I don't think it worked because he hasn't got the players to play that formation.
		
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If we don't get in CL we will struggle again to attract the top players , that's what happened last year.
I watched Chealsea mid week defend a lead and they never looked it trouble .
Liverpool look like they will concede every time the opposition get in our half.
I would like to see what happens on the training pitch as the defending is schoolboy errors all the time.
The marking from dead ball situations is shocking.
yesterday Stoke had four players in the six yard box to NO Liverpool players but he saved a bad finish from Adam .
While we have a few injuries and are not as free flowing up front and in midfield we need to tighten up at the back.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 9, 2017)

Glad to see Lukaku struggled again today :rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 9, 2017)

What a game at Goodison. 
Barkley was class today,he needs more performances like that.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			If we don't get in CL we will struggle again to attract the top players , that's what happened last year.




			Until the owners back the manager properly then we'll continue to struggle.
		
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I watched Chealsea mid week defend a lead and they never looked it trouble .




			I agree though theyre not relying on a midfielder playing left back and they've got very good defenders
		
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Liverpool look like they will concede every time the opposition get in our half.
I would like to see what happens on the training pitch as the defending is schoolboy errors all the time.




			It seems to be individual errors as opposed to how we set up, players losing men and switching off isn't the managers fault.
		
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The marking from dead ball situations is shocking.
yesterday Stoke had four players in the six yard box to NO Liverpool players but he saved a bad finish from Adam .




			In fairness the back line had done their job,moved out and they were only onside because winjaldum headed the ball back, it's unfair to blame the defence for that.
		
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While we have a few injuries and are not as free flowing up front and in midfield we need to tighten up at the back.
		
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 Relying on Milner at LB doesn't help, Klavan isn't Upto it and Lovren for such a big fella he doesn't command/organise enough.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Glad to see Lukaku struggled again today :rofl:
		
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Where was he last week?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 9, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Where was he last week?
		
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Ian Wright was talking about the exact same thing this evening - Lukaku at the moment is the flat track bully , at times looks unplayable but other times goes missing. The discussed the sort of club that will look to buy him , the compared his possible transfer to Suarez leaving , he went to Barcelona and improved them - what club will Lukaku go to and improve them if he is making the step up from Everton ? Or will he be looking to go to a club that he knows will look to improve him - or just go to who offers him the most money ?.

Which bracket do clubs like PSG , Chelsea and UTD fit into ?


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## NWJocko (Apr 9, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ian Wright was talking about the exact same thing this evening - Lukaku at the moment is the flat track bully , at times looks unplayable but other times goes missing. The discussed the sort of club that will look to buy him , the compared his possible transfer to Suarez leaving , he went to Barcelona and improved them - what club will Lukaku go to and improve them if he is making the step up from Everton ? Or will he be looking to go to a club that he knows will look to improve him - or just go to who offers him the most money ?.

Which bracket do clubs like PSG , Chelsea and UTD fit into ?
		
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Love the "flat track bully" comment that gets thrown around.

The same was regularly said about Cristiano Ronaldo, you may have heard about him?  He's not done too badly for himself.

I could be wrong but did I see a stat that Lukaku has reached XX League goals (100?) quicker/younger than Ronaldo (maybe and/or Rooney)?  Not playing for one of the top clubs that's pretty impressive IMO......


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 9, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Where was he last week?
		
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Because every player turns up every week :thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 9, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ian Wright was talking about the exact same thing this evening - Lukaku at the moment is the flat track bully , at times looks unplayable but other times goes missing. The discussed the sort of club that will look to buy him , the compared his possible transfer to Suarez leaving , he went to Barcelona and improved them - what club will Lukaku go to and improve them if he is making the step up from Everton ? Or will he be looking to go to a club that he knows will look to improve him - or just go to who offers him the most money ?.

Which bracket do clubs like PSG , Chelsea and UTD fit into ?
		
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Ha Ha, quoteing pundits who you slag off, and you call us bitter :rofl:

Any comment on the BMouth game yet? :whoo:


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## Tashyboy (Apr 9, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			If we don't get in CL we will struggle again to attract the top players , that's what happened last year.
I watched Chealsea mid week defend a lead and they never looked it trouble .
Liverpool look like they will concede every time the opposition get in our half.
I would like to see what happens on the training pitch as the defending is schoolboy errors all the time.
The marking from dead ball situations is shocking.
yesterday Stoke had four players in the six yard box to NO Liverpool players but he saved a bad finish from Adam .
While we have a few injuries and are not as free flowing up front and in midfield we need to tighten up at the back.
		
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If by saying you watched Chelsea midweek and they never look troubled V City, then you watched a differant game to the rest of us.
All the goals were scruffy and City who have not took there chances all season again missed sitters v Chelsea.
Liverpool like City are ok and am sure that Klopp who I really  do like, will be thinking along the same lines as Guardiola. They both know who is going and staying. And both know who they need to make both there teams stronger.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 9, 2017)

Is it me, or are quite a few clubs playing players out of position to " strengthen" the first eleven.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 9, 2017)

Not seen any of the games as I was golfing but the comments for the United game (yes it was slow out there) suggested it was a deserved straight red so will have to catch the highlights on SSN or MOTD2. Sounds like a barmstormer first half at Goodison. Massive for Arsenal to get a win tomorrow or I think they can kiss any hope of top four goodbye


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Because every player turns up every week :thup:
		
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The top players do:ears:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 9, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			The top players do:ears:
		
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How would you know? You don't have any :whoo:
He'd improve your shower


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			How would you know? You don't have any :whoo:
He'd improve your shower 

Click to expand...

Suarez?? Voronin??

He doesn't work hard enough, he wouldn't get in ahead of Origi :mmm::rofl:


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## fundy (Apr 9, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not seen any of the games as I was golfing but the comments for the United game (yes it was slow out there) suggested it was a deserved straight red so will have to catch the highlights on SSN or MOTD2. Sounds like a barmstormer first half at Goodison. Massive for Arsenal to get a win tomorrow or I think they can kiss any hope of top four goodbye
		
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thanks homer, keep writing us off please


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 9, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Suarez?? Voronin??

He doesn't work hard enough, he wouldn't get in ahead of Origi :mmm::rofl:
		
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Hate to tell you mate, they've left you, :ears:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 9, 2017)

fundy said:



			thanks homer, keep writing us off please 

Click to expand...

I wish to god he'd learn and tell us you're going to finish top 4


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Hate to tell you mate, they've left you, :ears:
		
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You asked me how do I know,knobby:ears:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 9, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			You asked me how do I know,knobby:ears:
		
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Come on billy clothead, we're talking current squads, if you really meant it you'd quote Rush or Fowler or even Torres.


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## Slime (Apr 9, 2017)

NWJocko said:



			I could be wrong but *did I see a stat that Lukaku has reached XX League goals (100?) quicker/younger than Ronaldo* (maybe and/or Rooney)?  Not playing for one of the top clubs that's pretty impressive IMO......
		
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If you did then I suggest you ignore it.
Lukaku plays as a striker whereas Ronaldo was played out wide, it'd be a meaningless comparison.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 9, 2017)

Slime said:



			If you did then I suggest you ignore it.
Lukaku plays as a striker whereas Ronaldo was played out wide, it'd be a meaningless comparison.
		
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The stat was players that have scored 50 PL goals before the age of 23, Lukaku became the 4th youngest, Ronaldo also did it but was slightly older, it had nothing to do with position played, just age.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Come on billy clothead, we're talking current squads, if you really meant it you'd quote Rush or Fowler or even Torres. 

Click to expand...

No we're not.....


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 9, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			No we're not.....
		
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:thup: still a crap answer then


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## Stuart_C (Apr 9, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			:thup: still a crap answer then 

Click to expand...

Not at all, you've moved the goalposts to suit your point :blah::blah::cheers:


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 9, 2017)

Caught the Larsson challenge and very dubious red card. Can't see how that was reckless or endangering an opponent especially as the first contact was to play the ball. Poor decision in my view and wonder if Sunderland will appeal it


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 9, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Not at all, you've moved the goalposts to suit your point :blah::blah::cheers:
		
Click to expand...

You selectively picked a third of the post to prove yours :thup:

You still don't have any current top strikers :ears:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			You selectively picked a third of the post to prove yours :thup:

You still don't have any current top strikers :ears:
		
Click to expand...

No I haven't, we've got Origi whose the best in the world right now :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 10, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			No I haven't, we've got Origi whose the best in the world right now :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

You win, I forgot about him :cheers:


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## Jensen (Apr 10, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Performances like he put in yesterday is in some ways the most frustrating part about him, he's always had the potential to be one of the best in Europe, the Sunderland fans up here have always say on his day he is one of the best keepers they'd ever had.
		
Click to expand...

Really...one of the best in Europe, no way. Nor do I think he's one of the best they've had, better were Thomas Sorensen, and going further back they've had Tony Norman, Chris Turner and what about Jim Montgomery.  Even Young Jordan Pickford is better. So no, he's a long way down the list


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 10, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Really...one of the best in Europe, no way. Nor do I think he's one of the best they've had, better were Thomas Sorensen, and going further back they've had Tony Norman, Chris Turner and what about Jim Montgomery.  Even Young Jordan Pickford is better. So no, he's a long way down the list
		
Click to expand...

OK, I'll pass on you thoughts to locals, I'm sure they'll be happy a Geordie said they're wrong


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 10, 2017)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....arkley-punch-video-cctv-nightclub-attack/amp/

Is it Barkley?


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 10, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			If by saying you watched Chelsea midweek and they never look troubled V City, then you watched a differant game to the rest of us.
All the goals were scruffy and City who have not took there chances all season again missed sitters v Chelsea.
Liverpool like City are ok and am sure that Klopp who I really  do like, will be thinking along the same lines as Guardiola. They both know who is going and staying. And both know who they need to make both there teams stronger.
		
Click to expand...

Afraid I disagree I thought Chealsea let city come on to them and hit on the break.
once it was 2-1 I thought they were never in trouble


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 10, 2017)

Wenger's face a picture as Palace score. Not good and not great defending.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2017)

Arsenal fan TV will be entertaining though blud innit fam:rofl:


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## anotherdouble (Apr 10, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Arsenal fan TV will be entertaining though blud innit fam:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Defending was shocking fam


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## anotherdouble (Apr 10, 2017)

If Palace want to win this they had better start converting their chances


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## fundy (Apr 10, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			If Palace want to win this they had better start converting their chances
		
Click to expand...

the way we defend they'll get plenty more, not like we look like scoring either!


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## Fish (Apr 10, 2017)

fundy said:



			the way we defend they'll get plenty more, not like we look like scoring either!
		
Click to expand...

And with Arsenal enjoying 72% possession Palace have had more shots on & off target and more clear chances!

Will Giroud come on with enough time to save the day?

If this becomes a loss, is that the 4th position gone? 

And will all Liverpool fans be cheerng us on at the weekend?


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## Old Skier (Apr 10, 2017)

To slow


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## fundy (Apr 10, 2017)

Fish said:



			And with Arsenal enjoying 72% possession Palace have had more shots on & off target and more clear chances!

Will Giroud come on with enough time to save the day?

If this becomes a loss, is that the 4th position gone? 

And will all Liverpool fans be cheerng us on at the weekend?
		
Click to expand...

liverpool fans are always cheating Robin you know that 

our defense looks scared of Benteke, be nice if the central midfield would bother showing up too, Xhaka been embarrassing yet again. once again we look leaderless and not really up for the fight

fixture list gives us an outside chance even if we lose of still finishing top 4 but it would only be another thin paper layer over the cracks (and because most of the other contenders arent that great either!), wholesale changes are needed starting with manager!

Edit: and stop editing!!!!!


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## Fish (Apr 10, 2017)

Old Skier said:



			To slow
		
Click to expand...

I don't think so &#129300; If Arsenal loose tonight and if we beat Utd, then the games in hand to overtake or even get level with Liverpool have been wiped out and it puts L'pool in the stronger position for 4th.


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## anotherdouble (Apr 10, 2017)

fundy said:



			liverpool fans are always cheating Robin you know that 

our defense looks scared of Benteke, be nice if the central midfield would bother showing up too, Xhaka been embarrassing yet again. once again we look leaderless and not really up for the fight

fixture list gives us an outside chance even if we lose of still finishing top 4 but it would only be another thin paper layer over the cracks (and because most of the other contenders arent that great either!), wholesale changes are needed starting with manager!

Edit: and stop editing!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

You will get chances and you have players good enough to score. I am afraid these days it's will you score more than you concede to win


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## Fish (Apr 10, 2017)

&#128514;&#128514;&#128514; I spotted it &#128521; I nearly left it in &#128540;


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## Old Skier (Apr 10, 2017)

Fish said:



			I don't think so &#27138; If Arsenal loose tonight and if we beat Utd, then the games in hand to overtake or even get level with Liverpool have been wiped out and it puts L'pool in the stronger position for 4th.
		
Click to expand...

Comment was to do with your cheating/cheering fingure trouble, I was to slow to take advantage of it


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## fundy (Apr 10, 2017)

good to see Wenger got them fired up at half time lol

oh no weve come out asleep and getting run all over by Zaha and Benteke straight away, no heart, no leader just a few individuals trying in amongst a sea of mediocrity

Im sure Sawtooth is watching a different game though


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## USER1999 (Apr 10, 2017)

Surely this debacle shows this team, squad, manager, back room staff, is done. Clueless, the lot of them. Embarassing. And if the answer is Giroud, what the heck was the question.


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## fundy (Apr 10, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Surely this debacle shows this team, squad, manager, back room staff, is done. Clueless, the lot of them. Embarassing. And if the answer is Giroud, what the heck was the question.
		
Click to expand...

been done for ages, anyone with 2 open eyes can see that (so that rules out the arsenal board, sawtootoh and a chunk of arsenal fans!)


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## USER1999 (Apr 10, 2017)

Gubbed by spurs rejects. Says it all.


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## One Planer (Apr 10, 2017)

Class finish.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 10, 2017)

Maybe bring on Walcott and Ozil ?

And how much was Xhaka ?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2017)

Fish said:



			And with Arsenal enjoying 72% possession Palace have had more shots on & off target and more clear chances!

Will Giroud come on with enough time to save the day?

If this becomes a loss, is that the 4th position gone? 

*And will all Liverpool fans be cheerng us on at the weekend?*

Click to expand...

Not a chance will I be cheering your lot on. 

I don't class finishing 4th 20+ points behind the winner's as success.


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## USER1999 (Apr 10, 2017)

Thing is BM fans are still upset with losing Xakha. So what does that say? Arsenal didnt know what they were buying, and he doesnt fit in the team. Its back to having next to no transfer strategy, just shot gun buying. Buy enough, something might work. Its garbage, and im fed up with it.


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## USER1999 (Apr 10, 2017)

Now its a pen. It gets worse.


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## fundy (Apr 10, 2017)

diving cheat Townsend


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## One Planer (Apr 10, 2017)

Oh dear.


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## fundy (Apr 10, 2017)

murphthemog said:



*Thing is BM fans are still upset with losing Xakha.* So what does that say? Arsenal didnt know what they were buying, and he doesnt fit in the team. Its back to having next to no transfer strategy, just shot gun buying. Buy enough, something might work. Its garbage, and im fed up with it.
		
Click to expand...

if theyre that upset then they can have him back, Ill happily drive him there myself!


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## USER1999 (Apr 10, 2017)

Yep. But its not the real issue. It will just give Wenger something to moan about tomorrow.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 10, 2017)

Blatant dive - did look a pen at first but it's a clear dive

Feel sorry for Sanchez - clearly a wonderful player working his socks off and continually looks around and no one is near him to help him

Palace fans chanting "Wenger we want you to stay"


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## USER1999 (Apr 10, 2017)

Please can i read in the news tomorrow that Wengers reign has ended. This is just rubbish.


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## fundy (Apr 10, 2017)

its that bad that the palace fans think they can take the piss lol


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 10, 2017)

Is that one of those "the forward won the penalty" penalties the experts keep telling us are ok?


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## One Planer (Apr 10, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blatant dive - did look a pen at first but it's a clear dive

Feel sorry for Sanchez - clearly a wonderful player working his socks off and continually looks around and no one is near him to help him
		
Click to expand...

Happens most weeks in most games in every team.


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## fundy (Apr 10, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Is that one of those "the forward won the penalty" penalties the experts keep telling us are ok? 

Click to expand...

its another of those that should get a retrospective ban and fine but sadly your right


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## fundy (Apr 10, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Happens most weeks in most games in every team.
		
Click to expand...

doesnt make it right gareth, just devalues the sport


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 10, 2017)

fundy said:



			its another of those that should get a retrospective ban and fine but sadly your right
		
Click to expand...

Yep - should be a three game ban , it's a clear a dive as you would see from a player


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## USER1999 (Apr 10, 2017)

Can we throw the towel in at 3 nil, or do we have to wait and get gubbed 5 0?


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## GreiginFife (Apr 10, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Is that one of those "the forward won the penalty" penalties the experts keep telling us are ok? 

Click to expand...

According to the commentator, "it looked like a penalty and thats the main thing...". Rather than it being a penalty thats the main thing,


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## fundy (Apr 10, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep - should be a three game ban , it's a clear a dive as you would see from a player
		
Click to expand...

hes even "clever" enough to flick his leg towards the keeper, its so blatant.

that said theres been far worse on display tonight (almost all of them wearing yellow!)


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## Fish (Apr 10, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Please can i read in the news tomorrow that Wengers reign has ended. This is just rubbish.
		
Click to expand...

The problem is, there's always something Wenger will complain about and make out he's been hard done by, so it's never his fault!


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## fundy (Apr 10, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Can we throw the towel in at 3 nil, or do we have to wait and get gubbed 5 0?
		
Click to expand...

the more the better, might wake the board up to whats really going on


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## One Planer (Apr 10, 2017)

fundy said:



			doesnt make it right gareth, just devalues the sport
		
Click to expand...

I agree Steve but it's the way the game is going unfortunately.

It's almost accepted now that players can go down under minimal contact. 

I don't blame the players.  I blame weak officials.


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## USER1999 (Apr 10, 2017)

2 more years of this could see Arsenal relegated.


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## fundy (Apr 10, 2017)

Fish said:



			The problem is, there's always something Wenger will complain about and make out he's been hard done by, so it's never his fault!
		
Click to expand...

yeah cos you never had a manager that did that did you lol


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## fundy (Apr 10, 2017)

One Planer said:



			I agree Steve but it's the way the game is going unfortunately.

It's almost accepted now that players can go down under minimal contact. 

I don't blame the players.  I blame weak officials.
		
Click to expand...

going? been there for years sadly


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## One Planer (Apr 10, 2017)

fundy said:



			going? been there for years sadly
		
Click to expand...

Thank you for making my point.


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## Old Skier (Apr 10, 2017)

fundy said:



			doesnt make it right gareth, just devalues the sport
		
Click to expand...

Feels like it was devalued a long time ago IMHO


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 10, 2017)

fundy said:



			its another of those that should get a retrospective ban and fine but sadly your right
		
Click to expand...

We've all got these players sadly, never really been in favour of cameras and stopping the game for only certain instances, but the idea of 2-3 appeals per manager for any decision is certainly growing on me.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 10, 2017)

fundy said:



			going? been there for years sadly
		
Click to expand...

Authorities are scared to make a stance against it - then again the last time UEFA tried to ban someone the ban was removed on appeal - think it's worked in Scotland though with some players being banned for diving recently. The ref can clearly only see it's a dive if there was a replay ( but not fan of those ) so strong retrospective bans should be done


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 10, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Can we throw the towel in at 3 nil, or do we have to wait and get gubbed 5 0?
		
Click to expand...

If Palace get 5, we go 6th! Every cloud n all that


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## Fish (Apr 10, 2017)

fundy said:



			yeah cos you never had a manager that did that did you lol
		
Click to expand...

 It was different with us, it was a conspiracy &#128540;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 10, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep - should be a three game ban , it's a clear a dive as you would see from a player
		
Click to expand...

Agree it should be a ban, certainly not the same amount as violent conduct though.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Agree it should be a ban, certainly not the same amount as violent conduct though.
		
Click to expand...

It should be more. It'll soon stop when 5players a game are banned  for diving


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## Old Skier (Apr 10, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Agree it should be a ban, certainly not the same amount as violent conduct though.
		
Click to expand...

Increase the violent conduct ban then.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 10, 2017)

Old Skier said:



			Increase the violent conduct ban then.
		
Click to expand...

Happy with that. :thup:


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## anotherdouble (Apr 10, 2017)

God I do hope he signs on the dotted line to a further 2 years.


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## fundy (Apr 10, 2017)

Keep:
Sanchez
Bellerin
Koscielny
Oxlaide Chamberlain
Cazorla

Get Rid:
Wenger
Bould
The rest

Gonna be a long few years ahead!


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## anotherdouble (Apr 10, 2017)

Is it time to use Mr Usmanov's billions


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## fundy (Apr 10, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			God I do hope he signs on the dotted line to a further 2 years.
		
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who do you support?


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 10, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			God I do hope he signs on the dotted line to a further 2 years.
		
Click to expand...

That's what every other team and their fans have been saying for years &#128513;.


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## anotherdouble (Apr 10, 2017)

fundy said:



			who do you support?
		
Click to expand...

Chelsea


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## Tashyboy (Apr 10, 2017)

Long may this continue for Arsenal our southern feeder club. if this continues we may get Sanchez even cheaper.:rofl:


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## fundy (Apr 10, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Long may this continue for Arsenal our southern feeder club. if this continues we may get Sanchez even cheaper.:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

just remember how much youve enjoyed watching Clichy and Sagna this season


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## anotherdouble (Apr 10, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Long may this continue for Arsenal our southern feeder club. if this continues we may get Sanchez even cheaper.:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Oh no you won't. He wants to stay in London and win things. The Bridge it must be


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 10, 2017)

As inept a PL performance as Iv'e seen from Arsenal and no shots on target in the second half tells a sad story. Wenger looked done in and to a degree disinterested. I think he needs to be brave and realistic and admit enough is enough and go.


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## Fish (Apr 10, 2017)

Wenger sets a new record though, a 4th PL away loss on the belt, and when you read headlines saying that "Palace were too strong for Arsenal" well that speaks volumes on how bad things have become.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 10, 2017)

fundy said:



			just remember how much youve enjoyed watching Clichy and Sagna this season 

Click to expand...

Preferred watching them two and Nasri when they were picking up there title medals. Now adebayor, you sold us a dud. The furthest he ran was when he scored against you. Where is he now? Not that I really wanna know the answer.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 10, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Oh no you won't. He wants to stay in London and win things. The Bridge it must be
		
Click to expand...

The only decent bridge was Wayne Bridge, that went a bit tits up though due to a certain Mr Terry.


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 10, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Preferred watching them two and Nasri when they were picking up there title medals. Now adebayor, you sold us a dud. The furthest he ran was when he scored against you. Where is he now? Not that I really wanna know the answer.
		
Click to expand...

Playing in Turkey. Scored a hattrick at the weekend in a 4-0 win against Galatassary.


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## anotherdouble (Apr 10, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			The only decent bridge was Wayne Bridge, that went a bit tits up though due to a certain Mr Terry.
		
Click to expand...

Tits up could be the operative words


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## Tashyboy (Apr 10, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Tits up could be the operative words
		
Click to expand...

I shouldn't but, snigger.


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## sawtooth (Apr 10, 2017)

Missed the game tonight due to committee meeting but will watch the recording.

I think that's top 4 over and done with now but refuse to get on Wenger's case. He,s allowed one miss in 21 seasons lol.

Hopefully with no Europe next year and some strengthening in the summer we will bounce back strongly.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 10, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Missed the game tonight due to committee meeting but will watch the recording.

I think that's top 4 over and done with now but refuse to get on Wenger's case. He,s allowed one miss in 21 seasons lol.

Hopefully with no Europe next year and some strengthening in the summer we will bounce back strongly.
		
Click to expand...

Europa League? Unless you think you'll drop to 8th


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## One Planer (Apr 10, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Missed the game tonight due to committee meeting but will watch the recording.

I think that's top 4 over and done with now but refuse to get on Wenger's case. He,s allowed one miss in 21 seasons lol.

Hopefully with no Europe next year and some strengthening in the summer we will bounce back strongly.
		
Click to expand...

Id worry about keeping Sanchez and Ã–zil before adding to the squad. 

Both look ready to jump ship.


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## sawtooth (Apr 10, 2017)

Maybe they're part of the problem not the solution?

Better to cash in and get rid if they don't want to be around or try to hold the club to ransom.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Maybe they're part of the problem not the solution?

Better to cash in and get rid if they don't want to be around or try to hold the club to ransom.
		
Click to expand...

Are you for real? I know some of Ozil's performances have been questionable but Sanchez's cannot be, he's been superb. 

You've been brainwashed by the business strategy of Arsenal havent you?


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## One Planer (Apr 10, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Maybe they're part of the problem not the solution?

Better to cash in and get rid if they don't want to be around or try to hold the club to ransom.
		
Click to expand...

Just to be clear. 

You would rather sell your best player (Sanchez)/players  (+Ã–zil) than have them stay and strengthen the squad?

Why would you feel they are part of the problem?

(Genuine question)


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## Slime (Apr 10, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Id worry about keeping Sanchez and Ã–zil before adding to the squad. 

*Both look ready to jump ship.*

Click to expand...

It looks like they're already in the lifeboat!


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## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Just to be clear. 

You would rather sell your best player (Sanchez)/players  (+Ã–zil) than have them stay and strengthen the squad?

Why would you feel they are part of the problem?

(Genuine question)
		
Click to expand...

The old saying " can't see the woods for the trees"  springs to mind here.


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## sawtooth (Apr 10, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Just to be clear. 

You would rather sell your best player (Sanchez)/players  (+Ã–zil) than have them stay and strengthen the squad?

Why would you feel they are part of the problem?

(Genuine question)
		
Click to expand...

I did say maybe. I don't know what is going on behind the scenes, but if Ozil and /or Sanchez are not team players then they should go.


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## One Planer (Apr 10, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			The old saying " can't see the woods for the trees"  springs to mind here.
		
Click to expand...

 Looking at it objectively. 

Arsenal are unlikely to bee in the Champions league next season so will not be able to attract the quality of player they could have. 

Yet as ardent Arsenal supporter would rather see 2 quality players sold.  Players of the like they will be unable to replace without CL football.

I would rather they strayed as a statement of intent which my be enough to attract at least some quality players to the club. 

Either that or seriously splash the Â£Â£Â£


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## Stuart_C (Apr 11, 2017)

ArsenalFan TV is a bit tame tonight:mmm:


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## Fish (Apr 11, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Looking at it objectively. 

Arsenal are unlikely to bee in the Champions league next season so will not be able to attract the quality of player they could have. 

Yet as ardent Arsenal supporter would rather see 2 quality players sold.  Players of the like they will be unable to replace without CL football.

I would rather they strayed as a statement of intent which my be enough to attract at least some quality players to the club. 

Either that or seriously splash the Â£Â£Â£
		
Click to expand...

and, if or when Sanchez & Ozil leave what will that leave them players wise which also helps to attract other quality players?  

The CV notes will read:  No marque players of note, Europa League and no ambition to push the club towards honours, nice stadium though, but please join us! 

The only way Sanchez is staying now is if Wenger goes and the club promises to invest and build around him showing some desire and intent to win and challenge for some silverware & titles,  otherwise he's off!

But I don't believe he's the issue, he's frustrated yes, and who can blame him as he's a winner and you always see him putting in a shift but he's 1 gold nugget amongst a pile of fools gold. 

Cash in by all means on the 2 best players and then buy who to replace them? But then still more quality players are required to support them? 

Serious clear out required from the bottom mainly to the top, if not I'll have to change my betting strategy to Everton finishing above Arsenal ðŸ˜‚


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## sawtooth (Apr 11, 2017)

Fish said:



			and, if or when Sanchez & Ozil leave what will that leave them players wise which also helps to attract other quality players?  

The CV notes will read:  No marque players of note, Europa League and no ambition to push the club towards honours, nice stadium though, but please join us! 

The only way Sanchez is staying now is if Wenger goes and the club promises to invest and build around him showing some desire and intent to win and challenge for some silverware & titles,  otherwise he's off!

But I don't believe he's the issue, he's frustrated yes, and who can blame him as he's a winner and you always see him putting in a shift but he's 1 gold nugget amongst a pile of fools gold. 

Cash in by all means on the 2 best players and then buy who to replace them? But then still more quality players are required to support them? 

Serious clear out required from the bottom mainly to the top, if not I'll have to change my betting strategy to Everton finishing above Arsenal &#128514;
		
Click to expand...

Or maybe the club starts spending some of the owners Billions which would make CL qualification academic? If players go to China to play for money then they will go to a premier league team without European football for hard cash.

If we go down that road though I will stop following football, I personally would get no satisfaction from winning cups because we managed to buy our way to glory.

I'd rather we stick to our principles and compete by buying smartly , promoting youth and developing players like we did with great success in the first part of Wenger's tenure.

Winning is important but so is not cheating.


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## One Planer (Apr 11, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Or maybe the club starts spending some of the owners Billions which would make CL qualification academic? If players go to China to play for money then they will go to a premier league team without European football for hard cash.

If we go down that road though I will stop following football, I personally would get no satisfaction from winning cups because we managed to buy our way to glory.

I'd rather we stick to our principles and compete by buying smartly , promoting youth and developing players like we did with great success in the first part of Wenger's tenure.

*Winning is important but so is not cheating*.
		
Click to expand...

Spending money to win a sport is *NOT* cheating.

The key difference is Arsenal do not spend big! And when they do they buy poorly!


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## sawtooth (Apr 11, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Spending money to win a sport is *NOT* cheating.

The key difference is Arsenal do not spend big! And when they do they buy poorly!
		
Click to expand...

It is if it's not the clubs money. 

Pumping Â£1 Billion+ of oil money or whatever into a football club is cheating in my book.

If a club makes a Billion itself out of football shirts, sponsorship,  gate receipts etc  then fine but not if it's a helping hand from an external source.

You say it's not cheating I say it is, let's agree to disagree.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Or maybe the club starts spending some of the owners Billions which would make CL qualification academic? If players go to China to play for money then they will go to a premier league team without European football for hard cash.

If we go down that road though I will stop following football, I personally would get no satisfaction from winning cups because we managed to buy our way to glory.

I'd rather we stick to our principles and compete by buying smartly , promoting youth and developing players like we did with great success in the first part of Wenger's tenure.

Winning is important but so is not cheating.
		
Click to expand...

ARsenal haven't been promoting players or developing youth for years - they have been spending Â£30 mil plus on players as much as the next club - how much was Sanchez ? Ozil ? Xhaka ? 

When you won early years it was on the back of a string inherited back line plus some good buys but not many youth promoted or players developed


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			It is if it's not the clubs money. 

Pumping Â£1 Billion+ of oil money or whatever into a football club is cheating in my book.

If a club makes a Billion itself out of football shirts, sponsorship,  gate receipts etc  then fine but not if it's a helping hand from an external source.

You say it's not cheating I say it is, let's agree to disagree.
		
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Cheating is classed as break a rule to gain an advantage - what rule have Chelsea City etc broken when they spent their money ?


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## USER1999 (Apr 11, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			It is if it's not the clubs money. 

Pumping Â£1 Billion+ of oil money or whatever into a football club is cheating in my book.

If a club makes a Billion itself out of football shirts, sponsorship,  gate receipts etc  then fine but not if it's a helping hand from an external source.

You say it's not cheating I say it is, let's agree to disagree.
		
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We have lost to watford, west brom, and palace recently. That is why we are in a mess. These teams have spent pretty much zip. It has nothing to do with money, that is a red herring.


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## USER1999 (Apr 11, 2017)

There is also a pot of money in the bank that could be spent but hasnt been. There is a close marked pay structure that rewards mediocrity. There is no discernable transfer strategy. There is a very weak board, and a disinterested owner. There is stale coaching, and a team with no fight at all.

I could go on, but it is too depressing.


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## jp5 (Apr 11, 2017)

We might be financially restricted compared to some of the big spenders, but there are a whole heap of improvements we could make that would get us closer to the top teams without spending money.


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## Dan2501 (Apr 11, 2017)

Not that financially restricted. Spent Â£95m summer just gone and have gone backwards.


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## jp5 (Apr 11, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Not that financially restricted. Spent Â£95m summer just gone and have gone backwards.
		
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True - have spent more since 2013 than Chelsea in fact.

Not just a case of what is spent, but how.

Â£35m for Xhaka vs Â£30m for Kante. Who would you rather have in your team?!


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## Hobbit (Apr 11, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			It is if it's not the clubs money. 

Pumping Â£1 Billion+ of oil money or whatever into a football club is cheating in my book.

If a club makes a Billion itself out of football shirts, sponsorship,  gate receipts etc  then fine but not if it's a helping hand from an external source.

You say it's not cheating I say it is, let's agree to disagree.
		
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Name one single business that doesn't seek investment to grow. 

Its not cheating in any way shape or form, other than in your head, to invest in a business to improve performance. There's virtually no restrictions on where the investment comes from providing that money was originally obtained legally.

Cheating, by definition, is "by dishonest means." There's nothing dishonest in winning by spending more than the next team. 

Or by your definition, Arsenal cheated Watford out of 2nd place last season by spending more...


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## davemc1 (Apr 11, 2017)

With Arsenals slide in mid table mediocrity I reckon we throw in a Â£40m + 2p bid for Sanchez  :rofl:


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## Kellfire (Apr 11, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Cheating is classed as break a rule to gain an advantage - what rule have Chelsea City etc broken when they spent their money ?
		
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In City's case, the Financial Fair Play rules. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/27445475

It's not only the big boys who do it - Leeds, Blackburn Rovers, Forest, Cardiff, QPR, Hull and Bournemouth have all breached the rules and has punishments of varying degrees.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 11, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Cheating is classed as break a rule to gain an advantage - what rule have Chelsea City etc broken when they spent their money ?
		
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https://amp.theguardian.com/footbal...ol-banned-signing-academy-players-fined-stoke


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 11, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			ArsenalFan TV is a bit tame tonight:mmm:
		
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It's quality

https://twitter.com/i/moments/851555837806088196


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## Stuart_C (Apr 11, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			It's quality

https://twitter.com/i/moments/851555837806088196

Click to expand...

Disappointed with the lack of blud, fam, bro innit...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 11, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Disappointed with the lack of blud, fam, bro innit...
		
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So much anger &#128514;


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 11, 2017)

can't see Tony Adams stay in Spain being a long one.


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## anotherdouble (Apr 11, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			can't see Tony Adams stay in Spain being a long one.
		
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7 games me thinks:thup:


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 11, 2017)

Not sure how he keeps getting management jobs. May be a good coach, no idea, but he has bombed every time he has managed a club.


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## Old Skier (Apr 11, 2017)

Seems there has been a bomb attack on the Dortmund team coach. Minimum injuries.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 11, 2017)

Dortmund fans on twitter are offering Monaco fans beds/sofas for the night as the game will now be played tomorrow.
Nice touch.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 11, 2017)

Shocking images of the coach and one player hospitalised (and so unlikely to play tomorrow) http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39572434

Fantastic response by the Monaco fans in the stadium and so not surprised that Dortmund fans have been so generous in return. On a more positive note Juve done a number on Barca and really can't see the Spaniards producing another miracle.


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## Fish (Apr 12, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Shocking images of the coach and one player hospitalised (and so unlikely to play tomorrow) http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39572434

Fantastic response by the Monaco fans in the stadium and so not surprised that Dortmund fans have been so generous in return. On a more positive note Juve done a number on Barca and really can't see the Spaniards producing another miracle.
		
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and then you get over hyped police charging in on innocent Leicester fans simply walking chatting and being beaten to the ground and being taken away!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04ztbc0


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 12, 2017)

From Twitter........


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## Stuart_C (Apr 12, 2017)

Very harsh decision against Leicester for that pen as well as most other decisions going against them.


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## fundy (Apr 12, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Very harsh decision against Leicester for that pen as well as most other decisions going against them.
		
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pen was harsh but can see why he gave it, not sure about the most other decisions, arguable a second pen, Vardy should already be out of the second leg too


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 12, 2017)

Real Madrid have been very impressive against Bayern, even before Bayern went down to 10 men.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 12, 2017)

Not the worst result for Leicester, definitely still in the tie.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 13, 2017)

PFA nominations been announced. 
Kante looks nailed on. 
Alli for the young PFA award.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 13, 2017)

The day after the bombings in Germany 

Embarrassing 

https://twitter.com/freebetscouk/status/852174510128320512


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

I heard on the wireless that Lukaku has told Koeman he won't sign a new contract, I can't see how Koeman can carry on picking him.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The day after the bombings in Germany 

Embarrassing 

https://twitter.com/freebetscouk/status/852174510128320512

Click to expand...

Its only banter Phil :mmm: :mmm:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I heard on the wireless that Lukaku has told Koeman he won't sign a new contract, I can't see how Koeman can carry on picking him.
		
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He's got 2 years left on his contract, different if it was 2 months!


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			He's got 2 years left on his contract, different if it was 2 months!
		
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I disagree. He's refusing  to extend his contract, it's obvious he wants out, what sort of message does it send out to others if he's allowed to call the shots? 

 Is he willing to stay at everton for the 2 remaining seasons? I don't think he is.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I heard on the wireless that Lukaku has told Koeman he won't sign a new contract, I can't see how Koeman can carry on picking him.
		
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That will bring his price down a little - still can only really see him going to Chelsea but then if Costa doesn't go will Lukaku be the main striker ?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That will bring his price down a little - still can only really see him going to Chelsea but then if Costa doesn't go will Lukaku be the main striker ?
		
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Batashayai (sp)??  Wasn't cheap neither.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Batashayai (sp)??  Wasn't cheap neither.
		
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Â£33mil ? Second highest behind Torres. Is he on loan now ?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Â£33mil ? Second highest behind Torres. Is he on loan now ?
		
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No.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I disagree. He's refusing  to extend his contract, it's obvious he wants out, what sort of message does it send out to others if he's allowed to call the shots? 

 Is he willing to stay at everton for the 2 remaining seasons? I don't think he is.
		
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You been asleep for the last 3 years, he's always been honest about using us as a stepping stone, it would be different if he was refusing to play or not trying, but he isn't and he is.
Currently top goalscorer in the PL and you suggest we drop him and continue to pay his wage for sitting on his harris or we continue to play him and only sell him when we are happy with the price, he's not asking for a transfer, he's simply telling the Club he isn't signing a further contract, no blackmail or threats.
Getting them to sign new contracts mean nothing, remember Suarez


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			No.
		
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Guess the wages are good , so if he goes to Chelsea will he be good enough to replace Costa ? 

Then there is Man Utd and playing second fiddle to Ibrahimovich ? 

Or abroad - none of the big guns need a striker right now 

So ultimately where will he go


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

Who cares were he goes so long as the Club are happy with the fee!


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			You been asleep for the last 3 years, *he's always been honest about using us as a stepping stone*, it would be different if he was refusing to play or not trying, but he isn't and he is.
Currently top goalscorer in the PL and you suggest we drop him and continue to pay his wage for sitting on his harris or we continue to play him and only sell him when we are happy with the price, he's not asking for a transfer, he's simply telling the Club he isn't signing a further contract, no blackmail or threats.
Getting them to sign new contracts mean nothing, remember Suarez 

Click to expand...

So Rafa was right about Everton being a small club:whoo:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

Bit obsessed with Everton tonight la?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Who cares were he goes so long as the Club are happy with the fee!
		
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What if and it's a big if,  nobody meets Everton's valuation? What happens then?


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 13, 2017)

So you don't play your top scorer because he doesn't want to sign a new contract &#129300;
Personally I think Lukaku is going about things the best way possible,he's being my honest with Everton & putting himself in the shop window by banging in the goals.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Bit obsessed with Everton tonight la?
		
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If thats what you want to call a sensible debate then go ahead.....


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			What if and it's a big if,  nobody meets Everton's valuation? What happens then?
		
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We've put an offer on the table, if no one wants him, he's got a big decision to make, personally believe that if he doesn't go this summer he'll go in Jan 18, even if it's a deal to see him stay until summer 18.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			If thats what you want to call a sensible debate then go ahead.....
		
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Only responding to the Rafa comment, which is banter/winding up by you wasn't it :thup:


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## Tiger man (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			So Rafa was right about Everton being a small club:whoo:
		
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So a player wanting to leave equates to being a small club? He has very high aspirations and Everton are not on the same level as the clubs he will be looking to join. If that makes us a small club then yes we are compared to Europes elite that will be after him but lots of clubs can't compete with that lure as you well know.


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## richy (Apr 13, 2017)

Lukaku wanting to leave is no different to Suarez leaving Liverpool, van Persie leaving Arsenal etc


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			We've put an offer on the table, if no one wants him, he's got a big decision to make, personally believe that if he doesn't go this summer he'll go in Jan 18, even if it's a deal to see him stay until summer 18.
		
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Does koeman carry on picking him while all of this carries on? Surely his value will only deteriorate in those 6 months, surely everton would want to protect their "asset"


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Only responding to the Rafa comment, which is banter/winding up by you wasn't it :thup:
		
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Tiger man said:



			So a player wanting to leave equates to being a small club? He has very high aspirations and Everton are not on the same level as the clubs he will be looking to join. If that makes us a small club then yes we are compared to Europes elite that will be after him but lots of clubs can't compete with that lure as you well know.
		
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2 in the net :rofl: :ears:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Does koeman carry on picking him while all of this carries on? Surely his value will only deteriorate in those 6 months, surely everton would want to protect their "asset"
		
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If the offer is enough for the Club he'll go this summer, with 2 years left, we're currently in a position of strength, obviously that'll tip in Lukaku's favour the longer it drags on.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			2 in the net :rofl: :ears:
		
Click to expand...

Knob :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 13, 2017)

Tiger man said:



			So a player wanting to leave equates to being a small club? He has very high aspirations and Everton are not on the same level as the clubs he will be looking to join. If that makes us a small club then yes we are compared to Europes elite that will be after him but lots of clubs can't compete with that lure as you well know.
		
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Which European Elite Club do you think will be after him ? 

When you look at the cream of the clubs at the moment they all have a top striker in place 

Madrid , Bayern , Barce , PSG , Juve , then at the moment Chelsea have one 

So who does it leave ? Man Utd ? 

Genuine question - he is looking to leave to I guess get trophies , play in CL and bigger wages so who does he go to ? He may want to leave but it's possible his options could be limited


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

richy said:



			Lukaku wanting to leave is no different to Suarez leaving Liverpool, van Persie leaving Arsenal etc
		
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Difference is there was clubs queuing to buy those players you've mentioned, I'm not too sure there's many wanting to snap a flat track bully up at Â£60-70m  that's being quoted.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Knob :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Mods, mods, mods...........


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Which European Elite Club do you think will be after him ? 

When you look at the cream of the clubs at the moment they all have a top striker in place 

Madrid , Bayern , Barce , PSG , Juve , then at the moment Chelsea have one 

So who does it leave ? Man Utd ? 

Genuine question - he is looking to leave to I guess get trophies , play in CL and bigger wages so who does he go to ? He may want to leave but it's possible his options could be limited
		
Click to expand...

Who cares, we're willing to keep him, he wants to leave, if Carlisle come in with the right offer that we accept and he decides to go there, that's it, end of.
It's up to him and his agent, their the ones making the noises not us.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Mods, mods, mods...........
		
Click to expand...

Snitches get stitches :ears:


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## Tiger man (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			2 in the net :rofl: :ears:
		
Click to expand...

:thup: The whole thing has just become tiresome, the will he won't he ever since he signed that I'm really not arsed either way, just hope we either some good money or he stays and is happy. Don't want to keep him against his wishes think he deserves a move if that's what he wants, we have had 4 good seasons out of him  and are not matching his ambitions just yet so good luck to him. Would be worried if Ross wants out too though!


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Snitches get stitches :ears:
		
Click to expand...

I'll have to ask Fishy how many infraction points threatening posts are worth.........


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Difference is there was clubs queuing to buy those players you've mentioned, I'm not too sure there's many wanting to snap a flat track bully up at Â£60-70m  that's being quoted.
		
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Who saying anyone is queuing up to buy Lukaku?
Arsenal went for Suarez :rofl:
Best flat track goalscoring bully in the PL :whoo:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Who saying anyone is queuing up to buy Lukaku?
Arsenal went for Suarez :rofl:
Best flat track goalscoring bully in the PL :whoo:
		
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One season wonder, he'll be at West Ham in 2 seasons.

Nobody. Richy has tried to liken Suarez and Van Persie moves to Lukaku. I don't see it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

Tiger man said:



			:thup: The whole thing has just become tiresome, the will he won't he ever since he signed that I'm really not arsed either way, just hope we either some good money or he stays and is happy. Don't want to keep him against his wishes think he deserves a move if that's what he wants, we have had 4 good seasons out of him  and are not matching his ambitions just yet so good luck to him. Would be worried if Ross wants out too though!
		
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Were meant to get wound up and bitch about him, if you need to know how to bitch and moan, search the red nose posts about Sterling :thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			One season wonder, he'll be at West Ham in 2 seasons
		
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Can't see Suarez leaving Barca for West Ham :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			One season wonder, he'll be at West Ham in 2 seasons.

Nobody. Richy has tried to liken Suarez and Van Persie moves to Lukaku. I don't see it.
		
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They both left for bigger clubs and the chance to win trophies :thup: 

Stop editing!


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## Fish (Apr 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Snitches get stitches :ears:
		
Click to expand...

Blue scally's know all bout blades and stitches &#128540;



Stuart_C said:



			I'll have to ask Fishy how many infraction points threatening posts are worth.........
		
Click to expand...

3 is the norm then upped to 6 for not taking previous advice and then you're thrown down a dark pit &#128540;


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			They both left for bigger clubs and the chance to win trophies :thup: 

Stop editing!
		
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Hehe.

Many top clubs would've took Suarez and Van Persie, I'm struggling to see those same calibre of clubs wanting Lukaku.


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## Tiger man (Apr 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Were meant to get wound up and bitch about him, if you need to know how to bitch and moan, search the red nose posts about Sterling :thup:
		
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Well the cheek of the lad leaving the biggest club in da werld for a plastic one like City, I'd say they were fully justified have you seen how big that stand is?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

Fish said:



			Blue scally's know all bout blades and stitches &#128540;



3 is the norm then upped to 6 for not taking previous advice and then you're thrown down a dark pit &#128540;
		
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Thanks fishy, take heed Pauldj42 :rofl:


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## Tiger man (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Hehe.

Many top clubs would've took Suarez and Van Persie, I'm struggling to see those same calibre of clubs wanting Lukaku.
		
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All will be revealed come summer. .


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## richy (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			One season wonder, he'll be at West Ham in 2 seasons.

Nobody. Richy has tried to liken Suarez and Van Persie moves to Lukaku. I don't see it.
		
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pauldj42 said:



			They both left for bigger clubs and the chance to win trophies :thup: 

Stop editing!
		
Click to expand...

Bingo


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Hehe.

Many top clubs would've took Suarez and Van Persie, I'm struggling to see those same calibre of clubs wanting Lukaku.
		
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They didn't have his talent at this age


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## richy (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Hehe.

Many top clubs would've took Suarez and Van Persie, I'm struggling to see those same calibre of clubs wanting Lukaku.
		
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You'd be surprised. He's still young and hasn't hit his prime yet.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Hehe.

Many top clubs would've took Suarez and Van Persie, I'm struggling to see those same calibre of clubs wanting Lukaku.
		
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Maybe go for a freebie in two years which will give him a nice big wage packet and some clubs won't mind giving him that for him to be back up ?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

Tiger man said:



			Well the cheek of the lad leaving the biggest club in da werld for a plastic one like City, I'd say they were fully justified have you seen how big that stand is?
		
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Our boss stand cost Everton Â£90k  :rofl:


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## Tiger man (Apr 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			They didn't have his talent at this age 

Click to expand...

Remember when they were convincing themselves Benteke was the better player:rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

richy said:



			You'd be surprised. He's still young and hasn't hit his prime yet.
		
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Not at the Â£60-70m  that's currently being banded about.


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## Tiger man (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Our boss stand cost Everton Â£90k  :rofl:
		
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Worth every penny to keep you there. Bet you can't wait to come see the docks.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Not at the Â£60-70m  that's currently being banded about.
		
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That's media crap and compared to 35 Mil for Carroll that you lot paid Â£60-70mil is a snip :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

Tiger man said:



			Remember when they were convincing themselves Benteke was the better player:rofl:
		
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You seen the PFA Player and Young Player lists? Can't see any Lpool players on them? Must be crap these awards :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

Tiger man said:



			Worth every penny to keep you there. Bet you can't wait to come see the docks.
		
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No, as I know that area very well it has a constant smell coming from a waste development  site about 200yards up from Bramley Moore dock.

You's will fit right in up there :ears:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			That's media crap and compared to 35 Mil for Carroll that you lot paid Â£60-70mil is a snip :rofl:
		
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You're obsessed with Carroll aren't yer?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			That's media crap and compared to 35 Mil for Carroll that you lot paid Â£60-70mil is a snip :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

You're obsessed with Carroll aren't yer? 

Â£60-70m on a flat track bully?? :rofl: :rofl:


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## Tiger man (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			No, as I know that area very well it has a constant smell coming from a waste development  site about 200yards up from Bramley Moore dock.

You's will fit right in up there :ears:
		
Click to expand...

It's not on the Wirral is it?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			You're obsessed with Carroll aren't yer? 

Â£60-70m on a flat track bully?? :rofl: :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Still laughing after all this years, cheers me up in my dark moments :rofl:

You'd love a flat track bully in your team, you've nowt better :whoo:


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## Fish (Apr 13, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe go for a freebie in two years which will give him a nice big wage packet and some clubs won't mind giving him that for him to be back up ?
		
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Not sure the club would let it get that close, surely they'd rather get something reasonable for him than nothing!  

Would make no business sense imo to run his contract out for nil return, other than what he's doing on the park.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			You're obsessed with Carroll aren't yer? 

Â£60-70m on a flat track bully?? :rofl: :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Still laughing after all this years, cheers me up in my dark moments :rofl:

You'd love a flat track bully in your team, you've nowt better :whoo:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

Lyon v Besiktas not looking good!


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Still laughing after all this years, cheers me up in my dark moments :rofl:

You'd love a flat track bully in your team, you've nowt better :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

He's struggle to make our bench.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Lyon v Besiktas not looking good!
		
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UEFA should throw besiktas out.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			UEFA should throw besiktas out.
		
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Hopefully they will


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## richy (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			He's struggle to make our bench.
		
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Origi. 

That is all


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## richy (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			UEFA should throw besiktas out.
		
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pauldj42 said:



			Hopefully they will
		
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What's happened?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

richy said:



			What's happened?
		
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Besiktas fans started throwing missiles and flares into Lyon fans, Lyon fans ran on to pitch, not sure if it has kicked off late or abandoned.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

Utd doing well, hoping they win the Europa, finish 5th in PL and LPool finish 4th, with Leics winning the CL


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Utd doing well, hoping they win the Europa, finish 5th in PL and LPool finish 4th. 

Click to expand...

Sorry to piss on your chips chap but we'd still qualify. Only way we wouldn't is if Leicester win the CL aswell.:ears:


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## Tiger man (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			You're obsessed with Carroll aren't yer? 

Â£60-70m on a flat track bully?? :rofl: :rofl:
		
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Of course he is a flat track bully we don't have many shots against the top boys, judge him when he is having chances created for him against better opposition. What kind of arguement is that? Struggling here.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Sorry to piss on your chips chap but we'd still qualify. Only way we wouldn't is if Leicester win the CL aswell.:ears:
		
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Cmon Leicester


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 13, 2017)

Crucial away goal for United but they couldn't find a killer punch. Should progress at Old Trafford (that's the kiss of death for their chances). Hope Uefa finally set a precedent and deal firmly with Besiktas and ideally remove them from the competition


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2017)

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39603942

I was surprised that he still was given a platform to write his tripe - disgraceful human being


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## Stuart_C (Apr 14, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39603942

I was surprised that he still was given a platform to write his tripe - disgraceful human being
		
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Why are you surprised at that newspaper for employing him?  They're made for each other.

He was a regular on question time too.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Why are you surprised at that newspaper for employing him?  They're made for each other.

He was a regular on question time too.
		
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Thankfully I don't watch QT - and thought he left the S@n years ago ? But you are right it is a perfect match


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## Stuart_C (Apr 14, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Thankfully I don't watch QT - and thought he left the S@n years ago ? But you are right it is a perfect match
		
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Don't forget, before any columnist material gets printed, it's proof read by the sub ed or chef editor and those dirty horrible scumbags have allowed it to go to press. 

It's easy to suspend McKenzie and investigate it, but what else will happen?? I'll tell you.....nothing!!

It'll be swept under the carpet like everything else their involved with.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 14, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Don't forget, before any columnist material gets printed, it's proof read by the sub ed or chef editor and those dirty horrible scumbags have allowed it to go to press. 

It's easy to suspend McKenzie and investigate it, but what else will happen?? I'll tell you.....nothing!!

It'll be swept under the carpet like everything else their involved with.
		
Click to expand...

Should never have been typed in the first place and you have to wonder what other "beliefs" he has but as you say having submitted it, the copy then got proof-read and looked at by an editor of some sort and allowed to go ahead. I doubt the paper will do anything but interesting to see if the Merseyside police do pursue this further


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 14, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Don't forget, before any columnist material gets printed, it's proof read by the sub ed or chef editor and those dirty horrible scumbags have allowed it to go to press. 

It's easy to suspend McKenzie and investigate it, but what else will happen?? I'll tell you.....nothing!!

It'll be swept under the carpet like everything else their involved with.
		
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:thup: About time Everton supported Liverpool and banned the rag as well.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 14, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Should never have been typed in the first place and you have to wonder what other "beliefs" he has but as you say having submitted it, the copy then got proof-read and looked at by an editor of some sort and allowed to go ahead. I doubt the paper will do anything but interesting to see if the Merseyside police do pursue this further
		
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This is the type of vermin we're dealing with. It's this type of vermin that influence the thoughts and opinions of those 1000's of  people that buy it and read and believe his words. 

He's well known for having "different" beliefs and it's further than Liverpool, it's out there for everyone to see.

I hope Rose Barkley takes him to court just like that other vile waste of a life Hopkins.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 14, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Thankfully I don't watch QT - and thought he left the S@n years ago ? But you are right it is a perfect match
		
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I sent the beeb an email years ago to vent my disgust at hiring him and I just got the stock response, we appreciate your view but he creates debate blah blah blah...


Remember the banner "BBC hires liars"  on the kop a few seasons ago in the FA Cup?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I sent the beeb an email years ago to vent my disgust at hiring him and I just got the stock response, we appreciate your view but he creates debate blah blah blah...


Remember the banner "BBC hires liars"  on the kop a few seasons ago in the FA Cup?
		
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Yeah I remember the BBC hiring and thousands emailed the BBC and got the same stock replay - I thought they got rid of him quickly


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## Stuart_C (Apr 14, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yeah I remember the BBC hiring and thousands emailed the BBC and got the same stock replay - I thought they got rid of him quickly
		
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No he was on it for ages.

That corrupt organisation will be happy with all the attention they'll be getting over this.

No such thing as bad publicity.


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## Hobbit (Apr 14, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39603942

I was surprised that he still was given a platform to write his tripe - disgraceful human being
		
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That is vile!

That's got to be a court case, surely.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 14, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			That is vile!

That's got to be a court case, surely.
		
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What do you expect from such a vile creature?


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## Tiger man (Apr 15, 2017)

What a disgrace that article made it to print. Not suprised at that scum bag for thinking it up but the blame should not stop at him. Why anyone still buys that rag i don't know, surely Everton will ban them, it's an embarrassment it's taken this long.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 15, 2017)

I have never bought The Sun, never likely to. I ignore it and its columnists. I don't agree with banning their reporters from grounds however. To my mind by doing that you are feeding the troll, giving them what they want. They can play the victim.

Do what you do with any troll, ignore them. That will really hurt them.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 15, 2017)

I see Stan Collymore & Ian Wright have had a spat on twitter over it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 15, 2017)

If you ignore who wrote it and where it was published it is still a nasty, uncalled for and insulting piece of writing. Totally unnecessary. It should never have got past the editor.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 15, 2017)

Everton released a statement saying they're banning the Sun.

Why did it take so long for Liverpool to ban them? 
Genuine question.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 15, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Everton released a statement saying they're banning the Sun.

Why did it take so long for Liverpool to ban them? 
Genuine question.
		
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In my opinion it's because that's how long it's taken for the real truth to come out even though we knew the real truth all along.  

Since that headline they've never had any exclusive or preferential access to any of the team unlike the rest of the media. All media organisations were allowed access to press conferences etc.

Once the fans were exonerated from any blame, any doubts were proven.


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## guest100718 (Apr 15, 2017)

oh when the spurs....


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## Stuart_C (Apr 15, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I have never bought The Sun, never likely to. I ignore it and its columnists. I don't agree with banning their reporters from grounds however. *To my mind by doing that you are feeding the troll, giving them what they want. They can play the victim.*

Do what you do with any troll, ignore them. That will really hurt them.
		
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Whilst I agree with this, instead of banning them  I would've made them apply for a space to every press conference and match and just keep declining them.

They're probably not arsed that they're banned from Anfield, they're more bothered at the loss of sales in their paper. Hit them where it hurts.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 15, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			oh when the spurs....
		
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Pochettino must be getting attention from Europes elite clubs. 
Spurs do look a very good side with few weakness's.


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## guest100718 (Apr 15, 2017)

he's already at one ; )


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 15, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			he's already at one ; )
		
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&#128514;&#128514; of course he is


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2017)

That's pretty good win for Spurs - gap at 4 points at the moment 

Looking at the fixtures I can only really see one game troubling Chelsea and that's the Man Utd game. Spurs run in looks a lot tougher with Arsenal , Man Utd 

But both have a couple of teams fighting for their lives so could one of them provide a shock to open the door for Spurs ?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 15, 2017)

Last 10 minutes and I can see Swansea are fecking my bet today, only need a Swansea goal


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 15, 2017)

Flat track bully at it again&#128513;. Which team do we know who struggles against lower teams and could do with such a striker? Mmmmmmmmmmmm. 

Let's keep that sale price going north &#128176;.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 15, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Flat track bully at it again&#128513;. Which team do we know who struggles against lower teams and could do with such a striker? Mmmmmmmmmmmm. 

Let's keep that sale price going north &#128176;.
		
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Had to laugh at the bitterness of the Liverpool fans just because he had a quiet game. 
Yet Coutinho has 1 good game in 3 & he's a worldie &#128514;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 15, 2017)

Feeling quite dizzy again being 5th, enjoy it for 24hrs and top 6 for 48hrs.

Flat track bully just keeps steam rolling along :whoo:

Burnley definitely the better team in the 1st half, Koeman must of got stuck in at half time, much better performance in the 2nd half.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Feeling quite dizzy again being 5th, enjoy it for 24hrs and top 6 for 48hrs.

Flat track bully just keeps steam rolling along :whoo:

Burnley definitely the better team in the 1st half, Koeman must of got stuck in at half time, much better performance in the 2nd half.
		
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Lord Tyrion said:



			Flat track bully at it again&#128513;. Which team do we know who struggles against lower teams and could do with such a striker? Mmmmmmmmmmmm. 

Let's keep that sale price going north &#128176;.
		
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Where was he against us and yernited??


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Where was he against us and yernited?? 

Click to expand...

Still can't think of any, any footballer that turns up every game, :whoo:

Hoping the Baggies can grab 3 points tomorrow, Boing Boing :ears:

Any idea which Red Sh1te team is turning up tomorrow? :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Still can't think of any, any footballer that turns up every game, :whoo:
		
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Origi :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Origi :rofl:
		
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I don't mean to drive the team coach :ears:


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 15, 2017)

Rumours of Ox going to Liverpool. 
Looks like another Arsenal player leaving to win things &#128514;


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I don't mean to drive the team coach :ears:
		
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&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Slime (Apr 15, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Rumours of Ox going to Liverpool. 
Looks like another Arsenal player leaving to win things &#62978;
		
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So why would he go to Liverpool?


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 15, 2017)

Slime said:



			So why would he go to Liverpool?  

Click to expand...

Exactly.
Tbf he's only really a bit part player at Arsenal.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I don't mean to drive the team coach :ears:
		
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I see you're moving the goalposts again


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 15, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Exactly.
Tbf he's only really a bit part player at Arsenal.
		
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I think he has stagnated at arsenal. I like him as a player and a fresh start would do him some good. A good number of clubs will be in for him, he's young, talented and English, don't forget the quota system.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2017)

Well that's one Southampton have got away with - clear pen which it looks like the Linesman should have seen


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 15, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think he has stagnated at arsenal. I like him as a player and a fresh start would do him some good. A good number of clubs will be in for him, he's young, talented and English, don't forget the quota system.
		
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Yeah I think he's decent.
He definitely needs a move.


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## Old Skier (Apr 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well that's one Southampton have got away with - clear pen which it looks like the Linesman should have seen
		
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Looked like the keeper got a finger to the ball first on the replay.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2017)

Old Skier said:



			Looked like the keeper got a finger to the ball first on the replay.
		
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Only seen the side replay which doesn't show a touch but the ref must think he touched it - need to see the replay from behind

So from behind there is a touch but then Poll says it's still penalty because the touch on the player is after ? 

That seems really confusing


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## Old Skier (Apr 15, 2017)

IMO ref got it right, mostly through more luck than judgement. Poll confused the whole issue.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 15, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think he has stagnated at arsenal. I like him as a player and a fresh start would do him some good. A good number of clubs will be in for him, he's young, talented and English, don't forget the quota system.
		
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Not at Â£35m though. I suspect it's just the start of silly season where everybody gets linked to the top clubs.

Everton wouldn't know about this though  :ears: :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Only seen the side replay which doesn't show a touch but the ref must think he touched it - need to see the replay from behind

So from behind there is a touch but then Poll says it's still penalty because the touch on the player is after ? 

That seems really confusing
		
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Imagine what it'll be like when video referees come in.


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## Slime (Apr 15, 2017)

Old Skier said:



			IMO ref got it right, mostly through more luck than judgement. Poll confused the whole issue.
		
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I think refs are only allowed to award penalties when they're 100% sure it is one.
If in doubt, give nowt.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 15, 2017)

Slime said:



			I think refs are only allowed to award penalties when they're 100% sure it is one.
If in doubt, give nowt.
		
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Unless it's for Yernited then just give it


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2017)

Man City look a totally different team with Kompany playing - shame for him about his injuries


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I see you're moving the goalposts again 

Click to expand...

No, that's Origi's job once he's parked the coach :whoo:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Not at Â£35m though. I suspect it's just the start of silly season where everybody gets linked to the top clubs.

Everton wouldn't know about this though  :ears: :rofl:
		
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Who mentioned top clubs, he said he's been linked to you lot :clap:


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## Old Skier (Apr 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Who mentioned top clubs, he said he's been linked to you lot :clap:
		
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I thought he wanted to go to any club above Everton :cheers:


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 15, 2017)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....-Adams-dad-dancing-Grenada-training-video/amp
Seriously what is he doing?? &#128563;


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## Junior (Apr 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Unless it's for Yernited then just give it 

Click to expand...

:rofl:

I think you you will find that your boys have had quite a few more penalties than us this year.....and in fact more since the prem started


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2017)

Just been reading an article on some players that will be out of contract this summer available for a free

Any players you would like to see your club pick up any ?

Robben
Xabi Alonso
Pepe
Thiago Silva
De Rossi
Cazorla
Carrick
Fernandinho 

Still think Silva , Robben and Alonso would be great signings for a couple of seasons


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## NWJocko (Apr 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just been reading an article on some players that will be out of contract this summer available for a free

Any players you would like to see your club pick up any ?

Robben
Xabi Alonso
Pepe
Thiago Silva
De Rossi
Cazorla
Carrick
Fernandinho 

Still think Silva , Robben and Alonso would be great signings for a couple of seasons
		
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Quite rare in these days of uber hype in all forms of media but Xabi Alonso is so underrated it's ridiculous IMO.  Absolutely superb player but very rarely get's talked about or the spotlight put on how good he is.

I'd be surprised if Utd let Carrick go, hardly like he's any pace to lose is it? Edit: and another underrated player IMO.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2017)

NWJocko said:



			Quite rare in these days of uber hype in all forms of media but Xabi Alonso is so underrated it's ridiculous IMO.  Absolutely superb player but very rarely get's talked about or the spotlight put on how good he is.

I'd be surprised if Utd let Carrick go, hardly like he's any pace to lose is it? Edit: and another underrated player IMO.
		
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Been one of the best midfielders in Europe over the last decade and more - he was amazing for us and was gutted when he left , irreplaceable

Haven't seen as much in regards Carrick but whenever he plays for UTD they seem to play better , sometimes i have felt he is a bit lightweight at times to control the middle of the park , always wondered what he would be like alongside Gerrard for England


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## anotherdouble (Apr 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just been reading an article on some players that will be out of contract this summer available for a free

Any players you would like to see your club pick up any ?

Robben
Xabi Alonso
Pepe
Thiago Silva
De Rossi
Cazorla
Carrick
Fernandinho 

Still think Silva , Robben and Alonso would be great signings for a couple of seasons
		
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Cazorla needs a move to get off the treatment table and get fit. I see Wiltshire was injured today. If he wants to get back playing he had better stay where he is. If he goes back to the emirates they will start puttin out the 'Missing, have you seen' posters


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## NWJocko (Apr 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Been one of the best midfielders in Europe over the last decade and more - he was amazing for us and was gutted when he left , irreplaceable

Haven't seen as much in regards Carrick but whenever he plays for UTD they seem to play better , sometimes i have felt he is a bit lightweight at times to control the middle of the park , always wondered what he would be like alongside Gerrard for England
		
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Completely agree re Alonso, he is/has been a great player for years.  Just rarely gets talked up, he was every bit as important to Spain as Iniesta and Xavi but those 2 took all of the limelight.  

Carrick is one of the rare sitting midfielders that actually wants to play the ball forward, doesn't take the easy option of backwards/sideways passes all the time, very good player and weird he didn't get much of a look in for England.  Again IMO.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2017)

NWJocko said:



			Completely agree re Alonso, he is/has been a great player for years.  Just rarely gets talked up, he was every bit as important to Spain as Iniesta and Xavi but those 2 took all of the limelight.  

Carrick is one of the rare sitting midfielders that actually wants to play the ball forward, doesn't take the easy option of backwards/sideways passes all the time, very good player and weird he didn't get much of a look in for England.  Again IMO.
		
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I would love it if Xabi came back for one last season on a free - as well as still being more than good enough it would be the perfect person to learn from 

I think Carrick didn't get as much of a chance purely because people trying to get Gerrard and Lampard into the midfield together but all they have to do was have Carrick sitting leaving Gerrard to roam and Lampard to break forward in a midfield three but none of Sven , Capello etc gave it a try


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## Papas1982 (Apr 15, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just been reading an article on some players that will be out of contract this summer available for a free

Any players you would like to see your club pick up any ?

Robben
Xabi Alonso
Pepe
Thiago Silva
De Rossi
Cazorla
Carrick
Fernandinho 

Still think Silva , Robben and Alonso would be great signings for a couple of seasons
		
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Id take most of them at St Mary's tbh. 

Alonso retiring isn't he?
i think alonso making his name outside La Liga is what harmed him at intl level. No doubt once at Madrid and Bayern he continued where he left off at Liverpool and got some recognition. But by then the midfield was established for Spain. 

Think Pepe would do well at palace, wba or stoke with the managers there &#128540;


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 15, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....-Adams-dad-dancing-Grenada-training-video/amp
Seriously what is he doing?? &#128563;
		
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No idea but I heard him in his press conference on SSN saying he only has 8-9 players signed for next year and those are those he wants to build a side around and said there were too many foreign players, they were too young and lacking a leader and he'd lead if he had too. Very passionate and obviously making the right noises but I guess it'll be the results that count and not sure he'll be able to rescue their season


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## Dan2501 (Apr 15, 2017)

Alonso announced his retirement a few weeks back.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 15, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			No idea but I heard him in his press conference on SSN saying he only has 8-9 players signed for next year and those are those he wants to build a side around and said there were too many foreign players, they were too young and lacking a leader and he'd lead if he had too. Very passionate and obviously making the right noises but I guess it'll be the results that count and not sure he'll be able to rescue their season
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I saw the press conference,first thought was that he was back on the sauce. 

I wouldn't be worrying too much about next seasons squad.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 16, 2017)

Junior said:



			:rofl:

I think you you will find that your boys have had quite a few more penalties than us this year.....and in fact more since the prem started 

Click to expand...

That's hardly a surprise considering your players don't go past the half way line :whoo: :rofl:


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 16, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Not at Â£35m though. I suspect it's just the start of silly season where everybody gets linked to the top clubs.

Everton wouldn't know about this though  :ears: :rofl:
		
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We will quite happily let "top teams" spend over the top on obvious players and we will let Koeman continue to spend wisely on the less obvious ones. It's worked well this yearðŸ˜. Oh yes, we will keep developing young players as well. We seem to be quite good at that. Maybe Jurgen could come round to our training ground and see how it is done ðŸ˜.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We will quite happily let "top teams" spend over the top on obvious players and we will let Koeman continue to spend wisely on the less obvious ones. It's worked well this year&#128513;. Oh yes, we will keep developing young players as well. We seem to be quite good at that. Maybe Jurgen could come round to our training ground and see how it is done &#128513;.
		
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Everton spent more than Liverpool in the summer didnt they ? Couple of big money signings arrived ?

And both teams seem to be having the same amount of young players coming through at the moment.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 16, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Everton spent more than Liverpool in the summer didnt they ? Couple of big money signings arrived ?

And both teams seem to be having the same amount of young players coming through at the moment.
		
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Klopp spent Â£67million, Koeman Â£45million.

Name any of your young players who are regular starters in your first team.


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## Junior (Apr 16, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			That's hardly a surprise considering your players don't go past the half way line :whoo: :rofl:
		
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Very good  :rofl:


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## Papas1982 (Apr 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Klopp spent Â£67million, Koeman Â£45million.

Name any of your young players who are regular starters in your first team.
		
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Barkley aside who I'd not consider a youngster anymore. I'm not sure you have one other starter who'd be there if not for injuries forcing your hand. 

Can only go go by the premier league site as haven't seen much of you tbh. But it appears all the other youngsters who have minutes simply get em when players get injured and as soon as first team ers are back they are benched. 

Could be wrong, but that's how it looks from. The outside. Was the same at saints tbh. Koeman seemed happy enough having youth on bench. But didn't trust em enough long term.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 16, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Barkley aside who I'd not consider a youngster anymore. I'm not sure you have one other starter who'd be there if not for injuries forcing your hand. 

Can only go go by the premier league site as haven't seen much of you tbh. But it appears all the other youngsters who have minutes simply get em when players get injured and as soon as first team ers are back they are benched. 

Could be wrong, but that's how it looks from. The outside. Was the same at saints tbh. Koeman seemed happy enough having youth on bench. But didn't trust em enough long term.
		
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Davies has been really good he's only 18 I think.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 16, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Davies has been really good he's only 18 I think.[/ I saw he'd played a bit recently. 

Hooefully he stays in the team as I think cm is a position that players need time to get used to. Can't just okay now and again. Hooefully he's a starter next season too and not just replaced.
		
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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 16, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Barkley aside who I'd not consider a youngster anymore. I'm not sure you have one other starter who'd be there if not for injuries forcing your hand. 

Can only go go by the premier league site as haven't seen much of you tbh. But it appears all the other youngsters who have minutes simply get em when players get injured and as soon as first team ers are back they are benched. 

Could be wrong, but that's how it looks from. The outside. Was the same at saints tbh. Koeman seemed happy enough having youth on bench. But didn't trust em enough long term.
		
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Premier League Appearances 16/17

Everton

Davies - 13
Holgate - 11
Calvert-Lewin - 3
Pennington - 2


Red Noses

Alexander-Arnold - 2
Woodburn - 1

Above is 1st 11 only, not including named on bench

Whether injury forced or not, my point is our Academy players this season far out way theirs.
He also bought Lookman who's also a teenager.
I seen you post about his youth record with Soton and it's not good, happy to give him the benefit of the doubt at the moment as it's his first season, but hopefully he'll continue to use them.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Premier League Appearances 16/17

Everton

Davies - 13
Holgate - 11
Calvert-Lewin - 3
Pennington - 2


Red Noses

Alexander-Arnold - 2
Woodburn - 1

Above is 1st 11 only, not including named on bench

Whether injury forced or not, my point is our Academy players this season far out way theirs.
He also bought Lookman who's also a teenager.
I seen you post about his youth record with Soton and it's not good, happy to give him the benefit of the doubt at the moment as it's his first season, but hopefully he'll continue to use them.
		
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I wasnt meaning to suggest yours was worse than theirs, i've commented in the past that most top clubs don't give youth a chance unless enforced and don't recall Liverpool really bloody anyone who's become regular for a few years now.

I can recall both Holgate and Davies playing, Davies seems to be making a fair crack at earning a spot, Holgate seems more of a bum on a seat when needed and is dropped as soon as possible, but defence is more critical and players tend to improve with age and experience, but recall him being heralded even last season as a good prospect.

The others you mention look to me from a purely google led opinion as players simply helping a short squad as have mainly small minute sub appearances. 

In regards Koeman and he use of youth, its kinda catch 22, you want him to blood em, but at the same time if you have the billions that was claimed early season than he's likely to buy players pushing them further down the pecking order?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 16, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We will quite happily let "top teams" spend over the top on obvious players and we will let Koeman continue to spend wisely on the less obvious ones. It's worked well this year&#128513;. Oh yes, we will keep developing young players as well. We seem to be quite good at that. *Maybe Jurgen could come round to our training ground and see how it is done *&#128513;.
		
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In fairness to klopp he wants to give the youth a chance, he's promoted quite a few players into the senior squad who are  training  at melwood and has given them game time this season but they've got to be ready to take the chance. 

If their not Upto it then you could quite easily ruin them.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Klopp spent Â£67million, Koeman Â£45million.

Name any of your young players who are regular starters in your first team.
		
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Phil obviously meant nett spend, that's all that matters in football business


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 16, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I wasnt meaning to suggest yours was worse than theirs, i've commented in the past that most top clubs don't give youth a chance unless enforced and don't recall Liverpool really bloody anyone who's become regular for a few years now.

I can recall both Holgate and Davies playing, Davies seems to be making a fair crack at earning a spot, Holgate seems more of a bum on a seat when needed and is dropped as soon as possible, but defence is more critical and players tend to improve with age and experience, but recall him being heralded even last season as a good prospect.

The others you mention look to me from a purely google led opinion as players simply helping a short squad as have mainly small minute sub appearances. 

In regards Koeman and he use of youth, its kinda catch 22, you want him to blood em, but at the same time if you have the billions that was claimed early season than he's likely to buy players pushing them further down the pecking order?
		
Click to expand...

We'll have to wait and see how he strengthen's the squad, will depend if we lose Lukaku and Barkley in the summer or at christmas, if he keeps a balance of youth and experience then that'll be ok, last season we had Browning play about 15 games to cover Baines when he was injured, Koeman has sent him out on loan to get experience, Browning looked a real good prospect, just hope he keeps him.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Phil obviously meant nett spend, that's all that matters in football business 

Click to expand...

Apologies - I meant the whole season 

Everton spent Â£76 mil

Liverpool Â£67 mil


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 16, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Phil obviously meant nett spend, that's all that matters in football business 

Click to expand...

:rofl: Agreed, :rofl #thearsenalway


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## Stuart_C (Apr 16, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Apologies - I meant the whole season 

Everton spent Â£76 mil

Liverpool Â£67 mil
		
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Don't spoil the fun Phil :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Don't spoil the fun Phil :rofl:
		
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 - have you seen anything of this Neity guy that he apparently wants ?

Van Diyk rumours still going strong as well plus Oxlade Chamberlain 

Obviously all rumours


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 16, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Don't spoil the fun Phil :rofl:
		
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You LPool fans are good at moving the goalposts :whoo:


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## Tashyboy (Apr 16, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Man City look a totally different team with Kompany playing - shame for him about his injuries
		
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Indeed they do phil. Not only is he that good he improves those around him


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## MegaSteve (Apr 16, 2017)

Footie, now more than ever, is all about results... Not sure managers always have the comfort zone which allows them to 'bring youth on'... Especially if they want to hang onto their jobs...


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2017)

Pretty hard fought 3 points that - back up to 3rd - 5 games to go 

A draw this afternoon isn't the worst result


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## Fish (Apr 16, 2017)

Surprised at Man Utd team line up, no Shaw (not too surprising), Darmian (?), No Ibra (?), Fellaini ( :rofl: ).

Has Jose surrendered 4th and is playing his reserves, will there be a bus on show 

Predictions?


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## fundy (Apr 16, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just been reading an article on some players that will be out of contract this summer available for a free

Any players you would like to see your club pick up any ?

Robben
Xabi Alonso
Pepe
Thiago Silva
De Rossi
Cazorla
Carrick
Fernandinho 

Still think Silva , Robben and Alonso would be great signings for a couple of seasons
		
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wheres this list from Phil, thought Cazorlas signed a one year extension in January, hes been a massive miss for Arsenal this season!


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## Slime (Apr 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			Surprised at Man Utd team line up, no Shaw, Darmian, Ibra, Fellaini.

*Predictions?*

Click to expand...

Utd 0 - 2 Chelsea.


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## Hobbit (Apr 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			Surprised at Man Utd team line up, no Shaw (not too surprising), Darmian (?), No Ibra (?), Fellaini ( :rofl: ).

Has Jose surrendered 4th and is playing his reserves, will there be a bus on show 

Predictions?
		
Click to expand...

Saving them for games they can win.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 16, 2017)

I'll be happy with a Chelsea win :thup:


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## Jensen (Apr 16, 2017)

Come on United, do the Tottenham boys a favour


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 16, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Pretty hard fought 3 points that - back up to 3rd - 5 games to go 

A draw this afternoon isn't the worst result
		
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Will the open top bus be out after that result?


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 16, 2017)

As Pogba done anything yet? &#128556;


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 16, 2017)

Slime said:



			Utd 0 - 2 Chelsea.
		
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1-2 hopefully &#128513;


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 16, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			As Pogba done anything yet? &#128556;
		
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Nothing since May 2016!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2017)

So who is getting sent off first - Rojo or Costa , or even Herrera who seems to have Hazard nailed down at the moment


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## Jensen (Apr 16, 2017)

Fellani had a good 1st half


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## Rlburnside (Apr 16, 2017)

United were not looking to good up to they scored to many square passes, Chelsea were unlucky ref didn't give that handball, gave United confidence after the goal and they dominated the first half.

Hope United get the win.

Coys


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## Jensen (Apr 16, 2017)

Get in......


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## Slime (Apr 16, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Saving them for games they can win.
		
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## Fish (Apr 16, 2017)

Best I've seen United play this season if not a lot longer.  

Poorest I've seen us play, taking nothing away from Utd's constant pressure but even when we've had some possession we've given the ball away cheaply with short or wayward passes. 

Not a good day but a wounded animal can be more dangerous and we're still 4 points clear with a better run in I believe.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			Best I've seen United play this season if not a lot longer.  

Poorest I've seen us play, taking nothing away from Utd's constant pressure but even when we've had some possession we've given the ball away cheaply with short or wayward passes. 

Not a good day but a wounded animal can be more dangerous and we're still 4 points clear with a better run in I believe.
		
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Wanted Chelsea to win, but as you say you came up a Utd team putting in their best performance for a long time, I think it was their performance that reflected on yours, League is still yours to lose, which I can't see tbh.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 16, 2017)

Yep Chelsea very poor today. 
Utd were solid at the back.
As good as UTD were,Pogba still looks pretty average. 
Or am I being harsh?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2017)

Never seen Hazard and Costa so quiet - Herrera just controlled Hazard very well - must be a strange day if Fellani controls the midfield. Was that a one off or Chelsea vulnerable if they lose a couple of players - or even just the one today in Alonso ? 

That's going to be a big boost for Spurs


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## sawtooth (Apr 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Wanted Chelsea to win, but as you say you came up a Utd team putting in their best performance for a long time, I think it was their performance that reflected on yours, League is still yours to lose, which I can't see tbh.
		
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Gap was 10 points 2 weeks ago and now it's only 4.


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## Rlburnside (Apr 16, 2017)

Uniteds win makes the run in interesting now, Chelsea have a easier run in than Spurs but you never know, it's possible it could come down to goal difference


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## Fish (Apr 16, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Never seen Hazard and Costa so quiet - Herrera just controlled Hazard very well - must be a strange day if Fellani controls the midfield. Was that a one off or Chelsea vulnerable if they lose a couple of players - or even just the one today in Alonso ? 

That's going to be a big boost for Spurs
		
Click to expand...

I'd have liked to see Costa taken off early in the second half pushing Hazard up front with Fab being brought on earlier and then get Willian (on for Moses) & Pedro down the flanks and make Utd adjust and think more. 

It's done now, we move on, but neither Spurs or Chelsea play a league match now for over a week as we play each other in the FA Cup semi-final, which this result has set-up a real humdinger of a match, on & off the pitch &#128540;


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## kmdmr1 (Apr 16, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yep Chelsea very poor today. 
Utd were solid at the back.
As good as UTD were,Pogba still looks pretty average. 
Or am I being harsh?
		
Click to expand...

Being harsh, very harsh,
Take away the price tag and the any team would take the Pog,


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## Fish (Apr 16, 2017)

kmdmr1 said:



			Being harsh, very harsh,
Take away the price tag and the any team would take the Pog,
		
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No thanks.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 16, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Gap was 10 points 2 weeks ago and now it's only 4.
		
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So, looking at the remaining fixtures I can only see Chelsea losing one game, 
Are you hoping Spurs beat you's? They'll need to, to stand a chance.


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## davemc1 (Apr 16, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			United were not looking to good up to they scored to many square passes, Chelsea were unlucky ref didn't give that handball, gave United confidence after the goal and they dominated the first half.

Hope United get the win.

Coys
		
Click to expand...

Eh? utd not looking good? They scored after 7 mins!! Tough school at the lane

Lpool good win, shudda been more but again we could of threw it away.

Mignolet again the savior. Here's hoping he gets some credit from the match goers &#128539;


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 16, 2017)

kmdmr1 said:



			Being harsh, very harsh,
Take away the price tag and the any team would take the Pog,
		
Click to expand...

But I don't think you should take away the price tag. 
When a player costs Â£90m I think they should stand out in games. 
Neymar,Bale & Ronaldo all cost similar money and after watching them play I think they look class. 
Pogba just doesn't stand out. 
Just my opinion.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 16, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			Eh? utd not looking good? They scored after 7 mins!! Tough school at the lane

Lpool good win, shudda been more but again we could of threw it away.

Mignolet again the savior. Here's hoping he gets some credit from the match goers &#128539;
		
Click to expand...

How did Moreno miss that?


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## kmdmr1 (Apr 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			No thanks.
		
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You would,the lads 24 years old,came with a big price tag, not his fault,
Chelski cannot afford him,and Man Utd can....


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 16, 2017)

kmdmr1 said:



			You would,the lads 24 years old,came with a big price tag, not his fault,
Chelski cannot afford him,and Man Utd can....
		
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What's your point about him being 24?


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## User62651 (Apr 16, 2017)

Maybe 2nd season back Pogba will fire, he's been decent but not a standout like he was at Juve. Agree Chelsea still in control of PL, much easier run in than Spurs.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2017)

kmdmr1 said:



			Being harsh, very harsh,
Take away the price tag and the any team would take the Pog,
		
Click to expand...

I would take the Pogba that played at Juve , the one that controlled the game , was physical and creative on the ball , he was superb for them and i expected him to do a lot better in the Prem but right now even at Â£10 mil he has been poor


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## fundy (Apr 16, 2017)

1 Pogba or 2 1/2 Granit Xhakas, yep ill have Pogba please


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## Fish (Apr 16, 2017)

kmdmr1 said:



			You would,the lads 24 years old,came with a big price tag, not his fault,
Chelski cannot afford him,and Man Utd can....
		
Click to expand...

No, I said I wouldn't. 

I Don't care how old he is, I'd rather have a more accomplished 30 year old than the current Pogba we're watching as he wouldn't go straight into any of the current top sides imo. 

Oh, and we can afford anyone if we wanted them, especially with what we're going to get for Costa and possibly a couple more leavers, were very good at selling players for profit.


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## Fish (Apr 16, 2017)

fundy said:



			1 Pogba or 2 1/2 Granit Xhakas, yep ill have Pogba please 

Click to expand...

Yeah but I said top sides wouldn't have him &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## sawtooth (Apr 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			So, looking at the remaining fixtures I can only see Chelsea losing one game, 
Are you hoping Spurs beat you's? They'll need to, to stand a chance.
		
Click to expand...

Spurs are a better team at the moment and Chelsea not kept a clean sheet in last 10 games or so. Plenty still to play for.

I don't want Spurs to beat Arsenal but if they do and go on to win the title then fair play to them. They've lost less games than Chelsea and scored more goals, you wouldn't say that it wasn't deserved.

I have a funny feeling that they might nick it on goal difference.


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## USER1999 (Apr 16, 2017)

fundy said:



			1 Pogba or 2 1/2 Granit Xhakas, yep ill have Pogba please 

Click to expand...

I would like to see what xhaka is like under a decent manager. I cant believe that he is that bad.


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## Rlburnside (Apr 16, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			Eh? utd not looking good? They scored after 7 mins!! Tough school at the lane

Lpool good win, shudda been more but again we could of threw it away.

Mignolet again the savior. Here's hoping he gets some credit from the match goers &#63003;
		
Click to expand...


Let me expand a bit, the way United started looked just like they have performed this season, a bit wary slow and to many square passes, not something you could say of Uniteds play especially at home in recent years, 

The goal gave them confidence and from then on they totally dominated the game, they surprised me how well they played, Chelsea were unlucky not to have that handball given, we will never know how the game would have panned out but let's say they would have gone in at half time 0-0 would United have gone on to play so well?


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## kmdmr1 (Apr 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			No, I said I wouldn't. 

I Don't care how old he is, I'd rather have a more accomplished 30 year old than the current Pogba we're watching as he wouldn't go straight into any of the current top sides imo. 

Oh, and we can afford anyone if we wanted them, especially with what we're going to get for Costa and possibly a couple more leavers, were very good at selling players for profit.
		
Click to expand...

You would,
Pog will get better & better,Utd made a huge mistake not employing Jose once Sir Alex announced his retirement, Whether Chelsea can afford anyone is a different conversation , IMO I personally don`t think they can, they are a team bankrolled by an individual and recent signings don`t suggest otherwise...


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## fundy (Apr 16, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			I would like to see what xhaka is like under a decent manager. I cant believe that he is that bad.
		
Click to expand...

genuinely seen so little ability from him its scary, 24 games 1 goal, 2 assists. struggles to pass it 15 yards to a team mate, cant tackle for toffee and worth nothing at the top end of the park

surely the manager doesnt make that much difference to a player

https://www.premierleague.com/players/12136/Granit-Xhaka/stats


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## Papas1982 (Apr 16, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I would take the Pogba that played at Juve , the one that controlled the game , was physical and creative on the ball , he was superb for them and i expected him to do a lot better in the Prem but right now even at Â£10 mil he has been poor
		
Click to expand...

I think if Zlatan leaves it could be a blessing. He's obviously done great re goals, but it makes Utd very one dimensional and team that played today would thrive with POV in it imo. 

I think Pobga has probabaly hit the woodwork more times than any other player has in their career, let alone one season also.  If a few more had done in it would gloss over it a little. 

Re the price tag and comparing him to Ronaldo etc. He isn't going to score the goals that they do so he will also have a different influence. 

Personally i I still think the money on him looks better than that paid for Stones....


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## Fish (Apr 16, 2017)

kmdmr1 said:



			You would,
Pog will get better & better,Utd made a huge mistake not employing Jose once Sir Alex announced his retirement, Whether Chelsea can afford anyone is a different conversation , IMO I personally don`t think they can, they are a team bankrolled by an individual and recent signings don`t suggest otherwise...
		
Click to expand...

I WOULDNT 

As for the rest of your post &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;

#RedBlinkers


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 16, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Spurs are a better team at the moment and Chelsea not kept a clean sheet in last 10 games or so. Plenty still to play for.

I don't want Spurs to beat Arsenal but if they do and go on to win the title then fair play to them. They've lost less games than Chelsea and scored more goals, you wouldn't say that it wasn't deserved.

I have a funny feeling that they might nick it on goal difference.
		
Click to expand...

The table doesn't lie, Chelsea are currently the best team this season, who's to say Spurs won't hit a bad patch and drop points.

Fair play to any team that wins the title, they have to earn it, it's ok to use stats to prove your point, but the main stats Games won and most points, both belong to Chelsea so if they win it, you wouldn't say that it wasn't deserved ( you might, you might say they've bought it  )


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## Rlburnside (Apr 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			The table doesn't lie, Chelsea are currently the best team this season, who's to say Spurs won't hit a bad patch and drop points.

Fair play to any team that wins the title, they have to earn it, it's ok to use stats to prove your point, but the main stats Games won and most points, both belong to Chelsea so if they win it, you wouldn't say that it wasn't deserved ( you might, you might say they've bought it  )
		
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April 30th might have a big bearing on wins the title with Spurs at home to Arsenal and Chelsea away to you, you're one track bully might do us a favour.:thup:


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 16, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			United were not looking to good up to they scored to many square passes, Chelsea were unlucky ref didn't give that handball, gave United confidence after the goal and they dominated the first half.

Hope United get the win.

Coys
		
Click to expand...

Definitely a hand ball and not sure how the ref can miss it from so close. Great finish by Rashford though. He needs to keep getting game time as he's a natural scorer. It certainly makes the final few games a lot more interesting. Not sure at this stage of the season you can say any result is guaranteed.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 16, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			April 30th might have a big bearing on wins the title with Spurs at home to Arsenal and Chelsea away to you, you're one track bully might do us a favour.:thup:
		
Click to expand...

That still gives them the title by a point :rofl:


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## kmdmr1 (Apr 16, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I think if Zlatan leaves it could be a blessing. He's obviously done great re goals, but it makes Utd very one dimensional and team that played today would thrive with POV in it imo. 

I think Pobga has probabaly hit the woodwork more times than any other player has in their career, let alone one season also.  If a few more had done in it would gloss over it a little. 

Re the price tag and comparing him to Ronaldo etc. He isn't going to score the goals that they do so he will also have a different influence. 

Personally i I still think the money on him looks better than that paid for Stones....
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree,
Different players, play in different positions,


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## Rlburnside (Apr 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			That still gives them the title by a point :rofl:
		
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Think the only game Chelsea might lose is Everton away, Spurs have got some hard games Arsenal, Man Unt, Leicester,Palace.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 16, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			Eh? utd not looking good? They scored after 7 mins!! Tough school at the lane

Lpool good win, shudda been more but again we could of threw it away.

Mignolet again the savior. Here's hoping he gets some credit from the match goers &#128539;
		
Click to expand...

Twice in a fortnight I'm praising Mignolet, I can't believe it :rofl: Again, credit where it's due he made a couple of excellent saves and his punching was up there. 

I thought our performance  proved we can dog it against the sides you need to dig deep and dog a win, it wasn't pretty and certainly not one for the scrap book but 3pts in the bag.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 16, 2017)

Like him or loathe him Mourinho once again shows his quality and sets his team up to go out and get a job done. 

Chelsea's worst performance by far (from the little I've seen) this season, Hazard kept quiet by the horrible dirty cheating Herrera and Chelsea struggle. 

Are they a one man team?


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 16, 2017)

I never actually said that Pogba should be scoring goals like Ronaldo. 
I just can't see that he brings anything special to the team.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 16, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			April 30th might have a big bearing on wins the title with Spurs at home to Arsenal and Chelsea away to you, *you're one track bully might do us a favour.*:thup:
		
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You're clutching at straws here, he only turns up against the little teams


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## Stuart_C (Apr 16, 2017)

Theres no doubt Pogba has immense ability, The price tag on his head looks to have  put pressure on him that  hasnt helped his performances. 

I think the other issue is Yernited have struggled at times this season and he's played in a few different positions. He certainly needs time regardless of price tag.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 16, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			You're clutching at straws here, he only turns up against the little teams

Click to expand...

Ideal for you's then, after today you're unbeaten home and away against all teams in top 9, played 15, won 9 drew 6, 
I guess you can't beat the little teams then :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Ideal for you's then, after today you're unbeaten home and away against all teams in top 9, played 15, won 9 drew 6, 
I guess you can't beat the little teams then :rofl:
		
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Where have you been for the last 20yrs??


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 16, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Where have you been for the last 20yrs??
		
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Looking for silverware


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## Stuart_C (Apr 16, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			In Liverpool's shadow, Looking for silverware 

Click to expand...

Fixed it for you


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 16, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Fixed it for you 

Click to expand...

In your dreams Stu :rofl:


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## Junior (Apr 16, 2017)

He's not fired but I'd rather have Pogba in my team than play against him.  He'll always have the price tag on his shoulders and if half of the shots that hit the woodwork had snuck under we might be talking about him in a different light.  He's not stood out, but I'm willing to give him time. 

Herrera is a player everyone hates........for some reason we play better with him in the starting eleven.  He links with Mata well too.


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## Slime (Apr 16, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Like him or loathe him Mourinho once again shows his quality and sets his team up to go out and get a job done. 

Chelsea's worst performance by far (from the little I've seen) this season, the horrible dirty cheating Hazard kept quiet by Herrera and Chelsea struggle. 

Are they a one man team?
		
Click to expand...

Corrected that for you Stu :thup:.

Yup, a very good performance by United .................... but possibly too little too late!
United still have to play away games at Man City, Arsenal and Spurs.
They'll have to carry today's form forward for the rest of the season ...................... and I don't know whether they're capable of that.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 16, 2017)

Slime said:



			Corrected that for you Stu :thup:.

Yup, a very good performance by United .................... but possibly too little too late!
United still have to play away games at Man City, Arsenal and Spurs.
They'll have to carry today's form forward for the rest of the season ...................... and I don't know whether they're capable of that.
		
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You've got a point.

I think Herrera is a great player with that dirty streak in him. I like players like that but whilst he plays for your lot I'll continue to hate him


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 17, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Twice in a fortnight I'm praising Mignolet, I can't believe it :rofl: Again, credit where it's due he made a couple of excellent saves and his punching was up there. 

I thought our performance  proved we can dog it against the sides you need to dig deep and dog a win, it wasn't pretty and certainly not one for the scrap book but 3pts in the bag.
		
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Yes spot on not a classic .
keeper was excellent again.
we really need to learn how to kill teams off.(Moreno chance)
fingernails are shredded as we still look like we will concede any time 
but 3pts is great.
lets hope some of the injured players are fit for the run in as if we get top four and CL we can intice top players to come to Anfield.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 17, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes spot on not a classic .
keeper was excellent again.
we really need to learn how to kill teams off.(Moreno chance)
fingernails are shredded as we still look like we will concede any time 
but 3pts is great.
lets hope some of the injured players are fit for the run in as if *we get top four and CL we can intice top players to come to Anfield*.
		
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It amazes me how other clubs  who aren't in the CL can still attract top players yet we need CL to do it


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## Kellfire (Apr 17, 2017)

Mignolet looked decidedly flappy towards the end. Some good saves but clearly a dodgy keeper. He wasn't brilliant. The opposition were poor.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 17, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			It amazes me how other clubs  who aren't in the CL can still attract top players yet we need CL to do it

Click to expand...

The reality is it is a mixture of the city and money. London is an attraction, Liverpool is not. No CL, not London = you have to pay over the top wages. Man Utd can afford it, Liverpool probably can't. Liverpool aren't alone there.

I'm not convinced the whole CL issue is about always playing at that level. The cynic in me thinks that bigger sponsorship deals, that come with CL exposure, have a big influence as well.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 17, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The reality is it is a mixture of the city and money. London is an attraction, Liverpool is not. No CL, not London = you have to pay over the top wages. Man Utd can afford it, Liverpool probably can't. Liverpool aren't alone there.

I'm not convinced the whole CL issue is about always playing at that level. The cynic in me thinks that bigger sponsorship deals, that come with CL exposure, have a big influence as well.
		
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Whilst I agree in the main I'd imagine that although UTD are paying some of their players stacks. Their brand name is also a lot stringer intl than every other english team. A few more years in the europa may chance that. But atm, they are still the biggest team in the league and so players will choose them over others.'


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 17, 2017)

Another year in the Europa and Utd will become another AC Milan. Yes, the brand is big but you have to back that up. 

To be fair, the Liverpool brand is still very strong around the world. More based on history than a slick marketing machine as per Utd but it is still up there.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 17, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The reality is it is a mixture of the city and money. London is an attraction, Liverpool is not. No CL, not London = you have to pay over the top wages. Man Utd can afford it, Liverpool probably can't. Liverpool aren't alone there.

I'm not convinced the whole CL issue is about always playing at that level. The cynic in me thinks that bigger sponsorship deals, that come with CL exposure, have a big influence as well.
		
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Imo it boils down to wages.


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## Hobbit (Apr 17, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Another year in the Europa and Utd will become another AC Milan. Yes, the brand is big but you have to back that up. 

To be fair, the Liverpool brand is still very strong around the world. More based on history than a slick marketing machine as per Utd but it is still up there.
		
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Stuart_C said:



			Imo it boils down to wages.
		
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Arsenal prove that. They are a London club with CL but won't pay neither the big transfer fees nor the wages.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 17, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			It amazes me how other clubs  who aren't in the CL can still attract top players yet we need CL to do it

Click to expand...

Which top players did Liverpool attract the last time they were in the CL? 
I reckon this belief that if you get top 4 you automatically attract the big players isn't really the case. 
Maybe if you're playing Champions league football every year. 
But the top players want actually to win things,not just have the odd season in the CL.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 17, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Which top players did Liverpool attract the last time they were in the CL? 
*I reckon this belief that if you get top 4 you automatically attract the big players isn't really the case. *
Maybe if you're playing Champions league football every year. 
But the top players want actually to win things,not just have the odd season in the CL.
		
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I agree it's a myth. 

Ballotelli and Aspas

You only get what you pay for.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 17, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I agree it's a myth. 

Ballotelli and Aspas

You only get what you pay for.
		
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It really is a myth. 
Let's say UTD don't make top 4 or win the Europa.
Players will still choose them over Spurs & Liverpool.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 17, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			It really is a myth. 
Let's say UTD don't make top 4 or win the Europa.
Players will still choose them over Spurs & Liverpool.
		
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It depends on who pays the most money.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 17, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			It depends on who pays the most money.
		
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Yep & can you really blame players.
How many people would turn down the chance to earn more money?
But when footballers do it they're being greedy.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 17, 2017)

I get your point but playing in China when you are in your prime and still earning big money in Europe. Surely there is a line......


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## Karl102 (Apr 17, 2017)

Decent read about Tevez.....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...anghai-shenhua-latest-big-money-move-chinese/

Rumour is Zlatan could be next....


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 17, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I get your point but playing in China when you are in your prime and still earning big money in Europe. Surely there is a line......
		
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Maybe if you're one of the top players then yes. 
But when players Pelle get the chance to earn Â£250k pw it's a no brainier. 
What would he have been on at Southampton?


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## Fish (Apr 17, 2017)

Can't believe I'm saying this but what a joke Arsenals fixture is tonight for their fans. 

 Absolutely No consideration towards travelling fans, 8pm on a Bank Holiday night to the north east is ridiculous, I reckon they won't get home till the very early hours as traffic will be a nightmare and then be back at work Tuesday. 

Why couldn't it be a 4pm kick off, treat the bank holiday as a Sunday. 

1 PL match only and at 8pm, shocking fixture.


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## fundy (Apr 17, 2017)

Fish said:



			Can't believe I'm saying this but what a joke Arsenals fixture is tonight for their fans. 

 Absolutely No consideration towards travelling fans, 8pm on a Bank Holiday night to the north east is ridiculous, I reckon they won't get home till the very early hours as traffic will be a nightmare and then be back at work Tuesday. 

Why couldn't it be a 4pm kick off, treat the bank holiday as a Sunday. 

1 PL match only and at 8pm, shocking fixture.
		
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whos hijacked Fishes account  get that password changed fella, posts like this are most disconcerting


and yes you're right, it just sums up how little the actual fans who attend are considered compared to the TV companies! part of why i gave up going many years ago (whatever happened to 3 o clock on a saturday lol)


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## Papas1982 (Apr 17, 2017)

Fish said:



			Can't believe I'm saying this but what a joke Arsenals fixture is tonight for their fans. 

 Absolutely No consideration towards travelling fans, 8pm on a Bank Holiday night to the north east is ridiculous, I reckon they won't get home till the very early hours as traffic will be a nightmare and then be back at work Tuesday. 

Why couldn't it be a 4pm kick off, treat the bank holiday as a Sunday. 

1 PL match only and at 8pm, shocking fixture.
		
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Totaly agree, BUT, in the past that may have worked. Now, wit so many people working on BH's, attendance and viewing figures would be effected.

Clubs and fans take the money so have to accept the consequences.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 17, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Totaly agree, BUT, in the past that may have worked. Now, wit so many people working on BH's, attendance and viewing figures would be effected.

Clubs and fans take the money so have to accept the consequences.
		
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What money do  the fans take?


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## Papas1982 (Apr 17, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			What money do  the fans take?
		
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I mean the improved "product". 

Fan's all like the international stars at their clubs and the ease of being able the watch the games sat at home. These are the consequences of of the tv deals.

And whilst for match goers i have sympathy, they make up a tiny proportion of a clubs revenue stream and harshly are considered accordingly.


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## Jensen (Apr 17, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Spurs are a better team at the moment and Chelsea not kept a clean sheet in last 10 games or so. Plenty still to play for.

I don't want Spurs to beat Arsenal but if they do and go on to win the title then fair play to them. They've lost less games than Chelsea and scored more goals, you wouldn't say that it wasn't deserved.

I have a funny feeling that they might nick it on goal difference.
		
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Hats off to you fella for your brutal honesty, even more so considering who you support &#128077;


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## fundy (Apr 17, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Hats off to you fella for your brutal honesty, even more so considering who you support &#128077;
		
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shame he doesnt have brutal honesty about his own team


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 17, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Hats off to you fella for your brutal honesty, even more so considering who you support &#128077;
		
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It's more anti-Chelsea than you'd actually believe possible!


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## Stuart_C (Apr 17, 2017)

fundy said:



			shame he doesnt have brutal honesty about his own team
		
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:clap: :clap: :clap:


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## Fish (Apr 17, 2017)

fundy said:



			shame he doesnt have brutal honesty about his own team
		
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He's simply in denial or massively deluded and a lost soul. 



pauldj42 said:



			It's more anti-Chelsea than you'd actually believe possible!
		
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Just a smoke screen to vent his dislike of the blues in an alternative (cowards) way without being direct and honest in saying outright that he'd prefer his north London and biggest rivals to win the league over us.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 17, 2017)

Fish said:



			He's simply in denial or massively deluded and a lost soul. 



Just a smoke screen to vent his dislike of the blues in an alternative (cowards) way without being direct and honest in saying outright that he'd prefer his north London and biggest rivals to win the league over us.
		
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:thup:


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## Fish (Apr 17, 2017)

Well done Brighton &#128079;&#128079;


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 17, 2017)

Decent free kick by Sanchez to give Arsenal the lead. Not a great game and Boro look poor. Still can't see Arsenal getting CL footie even with a win tonight and can't see Boro staying up even if they still have a game in hand.


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## Fish (Apr 17, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Decent free kick by Sanchez to give Arsenal the lead. Not a great game and Boro look poor. Still can't see Arsenal getting CL footie even with a win tonight and can't see Boro staying up even if they still have a game in hand.
		
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Even with a win tonight, athough they've now been pegged back, and taking Liverpools 66/33, Arsenal are 9 points adrift even if they win those games in hand there still 3 away, and that's with needing 3 points tonight and not losing any more games .  I think this CL ship has well and truly sailed.


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## Fish (Apr 17, 2017)

I can remember the Pineapple on your head song, will there be a new one now for a Mop &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## fundy (Apr 17, 2017)

Fish said:



			Even with a win tonight, athough they've now been pegged back, and taking Liverpools 66/33, Arsenal are 9 points adrift even if they win those games in hand, and that's with needing 3 points tonight.  I think this CL ship has well and truly sailed.
		
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struggling to beat poor bottom of the league sides, half the team clearly done for the season, feel sorry for the few that are still flat out, ozil didnt dare celebrate that goal properly the dross hes served up lately (for someone reportedly wanting nearly 300k a week)


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## fundy (Apr 17, 2017)

Fish said:



			I can remember the Pineapple on your head song, will there be a new one now for a Mop &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;
		
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remember going up to the city ground, he came on after about 60 mins, got booked on 70 mins and sent off after 75 lol. Was a fun weekend


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## fundy (Apr 17, 2017)

anyone seen the penalty Ross County "won" against Celtic. Surely as bad as it gets, anyone still against retrospective action for diving?


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## Fish (Apr 17, 2017)

fundy said:



			anyone seen the penalty Ross County "won" against Celtic. Surely as bad as it gets, anyone still against retrospective action for diving?
		
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Yes, but only where Celtic are concerned &#128540;&#128514;&#128521;


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## ger147 (Apr 17, 2017)

fundy said:



			anyone seen the penalty Ross County "won" against Celtic. Surely as bad as it gets, anyone still against retrospective action for diving?
		
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Deffo a BAFTA in the bag and in the running for the Oscars.

And the ref has the role of Mr Magoo sewn up when he gets dropped for the next batch of fixtures...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 17, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Feeling quite dizzy again being 5th, enjoy it for 24hrs and top 6 for 48hrs.
		
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It was a good 48hrs :rofl:


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## The Evertonian (Apr 18, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			It was a good 48hrs :rofl:
		
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I wonder if it was that good for the kopites when they won the league back in November?:rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 18, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			I wonder if it was that good for the kopites when they won the league back in November?:rofl:
		
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:rofl: :rofl: :cheers:


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 18, 2017)

Tinsel flags - now thats classy.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 18, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Tinsel flags - now thats classy.

Click to expand...

To be fair it created a great decent spectacle. Shame the tie as a spectacle is over with the away goal


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 18, 2017)

Referee having a shocker at the Madrid game - Camisero should have got a second yellow but he left him off and now he has booked Vidal for a clean tackle and he has gone. Both players have played the same way but ref has treated both differently - no surprise the home player gets the favourable treatment


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 18, 2017)

Brave effort from Leicester but too much to do against a superbly organised Athletico side. That I fear is the Leciester fairytale done and dusted now and back to normality but what a great two seasons and plenty of fans would have liked to have had what the Leicester fans have had winning the PL and in the CL this year. Should be safe in the PL but you can see this side being broken up now (but players and agents mainly)


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## Dan2501 (Apr 18, 2017)

Side was already broken up when Kante left. Only marquee player who will interest any of the big sides now is Mahrez. Doubt anyone will be in a rush to snap up any of the others.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 18, 2017)

More shockers in favour of Madrid - Camisero clearly with a dive - should have been a booking and now Ronaldo scores with a clear offside goal. Game being ruined by the officials


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## Dan2501 (Apr 18, 2017)

Marcelo is unbelievable. Easily the best LB in the world.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 18, 2017)

Such a shame the game was ruined by the ref - Marcelo is outstanding going forward though , been a great battle with him and Robben ,


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 18, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			More shockers in favour of Madrid - Camisero clearly with a dive - should have been a booking and now Ronaldo scores with a clear offside goal. Game being ruined by the officials
		
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Hungry not exactly known for their refs.
A game like this should have a top class ref .
Real very lucky imo as Bayern on top until sending off .
Dire from the officials 

Video replays would have sorted this . When are they going to get this ?


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## sawtooth (Apr 18, 2017)

So pleased that Real went through. Robben is such a cheating scumbag, justice has been done.


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## The Evertonian (Apr 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			So pleased that Real went through. Robben is such a cheating scumbag, justice has been done.
		
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I only caught extra time...was he cheating tonight, or is this a long held personal grudge?


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## sawtooth (Apr 18, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			I only caught extra time...was he cheating tonight, or is this a long held personal grudge?
		
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Both.

I happen to think that Vidal second yellow was deserved, not for the challenge but for raising his leg and tripping the Real player. That's how it looked anyhow.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			So pleased that Real went through. Robben is such a cheating scumbag, justice has been done.
		
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22 cheats and a ref in most games.
he is no worse than most .


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			So pleased that Real went through. Robben is such a cheating scumbag, justice has been done.
		
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Eh! The game was ruined by the officials and Bayern were the better team until the sending off.
No problem if RM deserved it, but they didn't.


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## sawtooth (Apr 18, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			22 cheats and a ref in most games.
he is no worse than most .
		
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Robben no worse than most footballers at cheating? Do you want to re-think that one?


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## sawtooth (Apr 18, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Eh! The game was ruined by the officials and Bayern were the better team until the sending off.
No problem if RM deserved it, but they didn't.
		
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In your opinion. 

I think Vidal was sneaky and tripped Real player for second yellow. If you watched where the ball was going when Vidal got a touch, Real player was running on to it - or at least Vidal thought he could make it so he tripped him.

Both Ronaldo goals offside but the game would never have gone that far without cheating Robben taking a dive for the pen.

In my opinion.


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## User62651 (Apr 18, 2017)

If it ends up another Madrid derby for the final I ain't watching it. Thought Bayern were unlucky tonight but happy to see Neuer and Mullers cockiness checked.
This was the final really, these are the best 2 teams around, but hoping Juve can do it this year just for a change.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			In your opinion. 

I think Vidal was sneaky and tripped Real player for second yellow. If you watched where the ball was going when Vidal got a touch, Real player was running on to it - or at least Vidal thought he could make it so he tripped him.

Both Ronaldo goals offside but the game would never have gone that far without cheating Robben taking a dive for the pen.

In my opinion.
		
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My opinion and just about every other decent nuetral football fan, the first offence was never a yellow never mind the second offence, I've no interest in which team went through so long as it's a decent fair result, it wasn't, the officials ruined it and singling out one player, because you dislike him, is daft!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 18, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			In your opinion. 

I think Vidal was sneaky and tripped Real player for second yellow. If you watched where the ball was going when Vidal got a touch, Real player was running on to it - or at least Vidal thought he could make it so he tripped him.

Both Ronaldo goals offside but the game would never have gone that far without cheating Robben taking a dive for the pen.

In my opinion.
		
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You really do see a different game to everyone else 

Vidals was a clean tackle - Madrid players were throwing themselves all over the ground throughout the match at just the slightest touch and Bayern players got punished for it whilst the Madrid players got away with it time after time 

The officials ruined the game tonight - Munich deserved to have that game won


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 18, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You really do see a different game to everyone else 

Vidals was a clean tackle - Madrid players were throwing themselves all over the ground throughout the match at just the slightest touch and Bayern players got punished for it whilst the Madrid players got away with it time after time 

The officials ruined the game tonight - Munich deserved to have that game won
		
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:thup: spot on, that's how I saw it.


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## sawtooth (Apr 18, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			My opinion and just about every other decent nuetral football fan, the first offence was never a yellow never mind the second offence, I've no interest in which team went through so long as it's a decent fair result, it wasn't, the officials ruined it and singling out one player, because you dislike him, is daft!
		
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Regardless whether you thought it was a just result or not, I don't like Robben because he is a serial cheat. I am pleased that his side didn't progress. Sure Real players cheat as well and officials wrongly awarded 2 of Ronaldo's goals. I don't care, the team I wanted from these 2 went through.


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## GG26 (Apr 19, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Tinsel flags - now thats classy.

Click to expand...

Mine was silver.

What a great effort in the second half, had a top European side rattled for 20 minutes, but sadly ran out of steam in the end.

What a two seasons we have witnessed.


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## richy (Apr 19, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			My opinion and just about every other decent nuetral football fan, the first offence was never a yellow never mind the second offence, I've no interest in which team went through so long as it's a decent fair result, it wasn't, the officials ruined it and singling out one player, because you dislike him, is daft!
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



			You really do see a different game to everyone else 

Vidals was a clean tackle - Madrid players were throwing themselves all over the ground throughout the match at just the slightest touch and Bayern players got punished for it whilst the Madrid players got away with it time after time 

The officials ruined the game tonight - Munich deserved to have that game won
		
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You're wasting your time lads. He's proved time and time again football isn't his strong suit.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 19, 2017)

GG26 said:



			Mine was silver.
		
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Extra classiness points, then. :thup: 

You had Atleti defended like a British team, throwing themselves in the way of everything like their lives depended on it. If one of them would have gone in, you might have got the 3rd. You should be very proud of your run.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 19, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Robben no worse than most footballers at cheating? Do you want to re-think that one?
		
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no He is a cheating ******* but most footballers now are its just he is on TV more than most.
My favourite saying is " He won the penalty" you hear this a lot now.


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## Bunkermagnet (Apr 20, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			no He is a cheating ******* but most footballers now are its just he is on TV more than most.
My favourite saying is " He won the penalty" you hear this a lot now.
		
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As used heavily by Andy Gray when he was working for Sky


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 20, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			As used heavily by Andy Gray when he was working for Sky
		
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I do think the quality of defending these days is not as good as it used to be.
Couple of years ago it was very obvious when someone dived 
Now it's every other tackle.
They must practice in training.
Dont think it will ever be stopped until retrospective action is taken.
Its always been there remember Francis Lee being accused it was a big thing then now it's just commonplace.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 20, 2017)

Costa to China is back on. 
Â£650k pw after tax apparently. 
Personally I'd let him go if the price is right. 
And tbh I couldn't blame him.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 20, 2017)

That looks a nasty injury for ibrahimovic. Over extended his knee. Do well not to miss any games with that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 21, 2017)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.st...t-tottenham-training-ground-a3519801.html?amp

Very sad news


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## User62651 (Apr 21, 2017)

ECL semis - Real v Athletico, Juve v Monaco.

Happy with that, did not want another all Madrid final.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 21, 2017)

The only shame is I would have liked a Juve v Monaco final. Real v Atletico will be a bore fest as usual. Anyone but Real for me.

Terrible news about Ugo Ehiogu. Very sad.


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## Dan2501 (Apr 21, 2017)

Good draw. Juve vs Monaco should be a great tie. Would love Monaco to get to the final. They've got such an exciting team, and if they keep their young stars they'll be a force in a few years. Mbappe, Silva, Lemar, Sidibe, Mendy, Bakayoko and even more wonderkids in their youth teams. Mbappe in particular has been superb this year.

Also, in shock news, Adam Johnson is a moron. Seen the latest video clip of him? What an imbecile that man is.


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## User62651 (Apr 21, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Good draw. Juve vs Monaco should be a great tie. Would love Monaco to get to the final. They've got such an exciting team, and if they keep their young stars they'll be a force in a few years. Mbappe, Silva, Lemar, Sidibe, Mendy, Bakayoko and even more wonderkids in their youth teams. Mbappe in particular has been superb this year.

Also, in shock news, Adam Johnson is a moron. Seen the latest video clip of him? What an imbecile that man is.
		
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Monaco cant generally keep their best players so although they've a good chance this year going forward they'll recycle again, look a very good side for now. I would like Juve to win, always liked them since the Platini/Boniek days and their strip is the best one out there imo. Their defence is superb too. Alas Mr Ronaldo and Co will most likely win again, very very strong team.


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## Kellfire (Apr 21, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Also, in shock news, Adam Johnson is a moron. Seen the latest video clip of him? What an imbecile that man is.
		
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Is much of what he said wrong though? _Really?_


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## Dan2501 (Apr 21, 2017)

Nothing much wrong with saying he wish he had raped her. Nothing at all.


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## Kellfire (Apr 21, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Nothing much wrong with saying he wish he had raped her. Nothing at all.
		
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Now you're paraphrasing what he said to make your point. I said at the time that he shouldn't be in prison and I stand by that - I think he's right when he says that he wouldn't be in prison if he wasn't famous.

Also, someone giving it a bit of bravado in prison? Nothing shocking there, is there?


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## Dan2501 (Apr 21, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Now you're paraphrasing what he said to make your point. I said at the time that he shouldn't be in prison and I stand by that - I think he's right when he says that he wouldn't be in prison if he wasn't famous.

Also, someone giving it a bit of bravado in prison? Nothing shocking there, is there?
		
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It's not paraphrasing. The guy says to him:

"It's not like you raped her or owt like that"

"I wish I f'ing did for 6 years"

Bravado or not, the guy's a moron.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Apr 21, 2017)

Ibrahimovich looks like he is out for the season - if the injury is that bad it could be his career over.

Big blow of Mancs chances of getting a top 4 spot


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## Papas1982 (Apr 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ibrahimovich looks like he is out for the season - if the injury is that bad it could be his career over.

Big blow of Mancs chances of getting a top 4 spot
		
Click to expand...

Think it could be a blessing long term. I'm not convinced on rashford yet. Seems to have it all but the finishing instinct but time will tell. But think they lack urgency with Zlatan in the side. He's obviously been brilliant this year. But no they're record has been any worse without him.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 21, 2017)

Big blow for United and he's been a great addition but nothing to suggest the injury will be career thrreatening


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## Tashyboy (Apr 22, 2017)

Hmmm, City get Â£33 million back from UEFA for sticking to FFP. In fact making a profit for the last two years.
Thats been kept quite.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Hmmm, City get Â£33 million back from UEFA for sticking to FFP. In fact making a profit for the last two years.
Thats been kept quite.
		
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They've made a profit? 


No way that's legit ðŸ˜‚


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## Fish (Apr 22, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Hmmm, City get Â£33 million back from UEFA for sticking to FFP. In fact making a profit for the last two years.
Thats been kept quite.
		
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I read only recently they were being investigated over false accounting to illegally show a profit which was only due to current directors of City forming a separate limited company to loop other revenue and sponsorship  through? Or something along those lines.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 22, 2017)

5live promo for the FA cup this weekend concentrated on the romance and giant killing of the cup. Not quite appropriate considering the semi final line up.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 22, 2017)

Fish said:



			I read only recently they were being investigated over false accounting to illegally show a profit which was only due to current directors of City forming a separate limited company to loop other revenue and sponsorship  through? Or something along those lines.
		
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Oh how times have moved on from the brown envelope brigade &#128513;


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## Slime (Apr 22, 2017)

A good start in the FA Cup semi-final ..................... but please don't try to convince me that Dele Alli didn't know exactly what he was doing.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 22, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			5live promo for the FA cup this weekend concentrated on the romance and giant killing of the cup. Not quite appropriate considering the semi final line up.
		
Click to expand...

I don't know LT, there have been some fantastic giant killings this year, mainly involving Lincoln. But it has been one of the better years for the FA cup.

edit to say if City lose tomorrow yeah it's been a crap year and vastly overrated. &#128513;&#128077;


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## sawtooth (Apr 22, 2017)

Big dive there from Moses but Son put the opportunity on a plate for him.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 22, 2017)

Well am off to buy a big bag of popcorn to listen to the traditionalists explain why we still don't need video replay. Tom Daley would be proud of that dive.


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## Jensen (Apr 22, 2017)

Victor Moses is a better diver than Tom Daley


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2017)

Clear penalty.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 22, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Victor Moses is a better diver than Tom Daley
		
Click to expand...

Na Tom Daley is not that good.
Cant believe what pundits say on mod it was a really stupid challenge but there was NO contact.
Moses went down as early as Son


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## sawtooth (Apr 22, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Clear penalty.
		
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Terribly blinkered.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Terribly blinkered.
		
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Not at all,that's a penalty all day long. 
Moses is lucky he's not seriously injured.


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## HawkeyeMS (Apr 22, 2017)

That's a sublime pass from Erikson(sp?),  the finish weren't bad either :clap:


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2017)

Danny Murphy should be on BT.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 22, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not at all,that's a penalty all day long. 
Moses is lucky he's not seriously injured.
		
Click to expand...

Think you need a better telly or a visit to opticians .
I would give Mosses 8/10 tec
                              6/10 content
                               10/10 cheek.
Son went down so early he beat him but decided to "Win the penalty"


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Think you need a better telly or a visit to opticians .
I would give Mosses 8/10 tec
                              6/10 content
                               10/10 cheek.
Son went down so early he beat him but decided to "Win the penalty"
		
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Son could be looking at a lengthy ban after that assault.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 22, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Son could be looking at a lengthy ban after that assault.
		
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You obviously have very little to do.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			You obviously have very little to do.
		
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Just calling it as I see it &#128077;&#127995;


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## Slime (Apr 22, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not at all,that's a penalty all day long. 
*Moses is lucky he's not seriously injured.*

Click to expand...

Seriously ................. how, a bad landing?


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## HawkeyeMS (Apr 22, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Danny Murphy should be on BT.
		
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Danny Murphy is a great co-commentator. He talks a lot of sense, plus he's a Fulham Legend.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2017)

Slime said:



			Seriously ................. how, a bad landing?
		
Click to expand...

&#128514;&#128514;
Come on Slime you know how it goes on here.

I'm sat in my armchair with the old blinkers on &#128556;


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## Slime (Apr 22, 2017)

Oooh, I really hope Costa gets sent off.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2017)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Danny Murphy is a great co-commentator. He talks a lot of sense, plus he's a Fulham Legend.
		
Click to expand...

That's worse than my previous posts &#128514;


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## Slime (Apr 22, 2017)

Now that was a clean strike!


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2017)

BOOOOOOM
And that is it Game over &#128556;


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## HawkeyeMS (Apr 22, 2017)

Slime said:



			Now that was a clean strike!
		
Click to expand...

As Andy Gray would say...you don't save those


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 22, 2017)

Got to give it to Chealsea they know how to win when not playing at their best.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2017)

HawkeyeMS said:



			As Andy Gray would say...you don't save those
		
Click to expand...

Tek a bow son


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2017)

Nice to see Hazard stay on his feet there. 
#thechelseaway


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## Slime (Apr 22, 2017)

Outplayed in the quarters, outplayed in the semis ................... I think Chelsea's name is on the cup this year :angry:.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2017)

Slime said:



			Outplayed in the quarters, outplayed in the semis ................... I think Chelsea's name is on the cup this year :angry:.
		
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Outplayed or tactical masterclass?


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## NWJocko (Apr 22, 2017)

Good match.

Spurs gifted 3 goals to Chelsea really, what a strike from Matic though!

Spurs aren't far off being a really top side if they can keep the manager and add a couple of quality players


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## Slime (Apr 22, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Outplayed or tactical masterclass?
		
Click to expand...


Outplayed.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2017)

Slime said:



			Outplayed.
		
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Chelsea never got out of 1st gear. 
Even rested Hazard & Costa for the 1st hr.


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## sawtooth (Apr 22, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			&#128514;&#128514;
Come on Slime you know how it goes on here.

I'm sat in my armchair with the old blinkers on &#128556;
		
Click to expand...

Haha you've been found out and now you're making a joke of it. 

Truly blinkered.


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## Jensen (Apr 22, 2017)

Got to admit Hazard is some player. Not bad when you can bring him on and Costa off the bench.
Good performance from Spurs, although we were a bit slacks for the goals conceded. Going in the right direction just need a couple more signings and hang on to what weve got


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Haha you've been found out and now you're making a joke of it. 

Truly blinkered.
		
Click to expand...

Yep you've got me &#128563;


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2017)

Anyone seen Jenas's dummy?


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Got to admit Hazard is some player. Not bad when you can bring him on and Costa off the bench.
Good performance from Spurs, although we were a bit slacks for the goals conceded. Going in the right direction just need a couple more signings and hang on to what weve got
		
Click to expand...

And stop assaulting opposition players in the box &#128556;


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## pbrown7582 (Apr 22, 2017)

Slime said:



			Outplayed in the quarters, outplayed in the semis ................... I think Chelsea's name is on the cup this year :angry:.
		
Click to expand...

:thup:


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## Tarkus1212 (Apr 22, 2017)

What a cracking game of football that was. Lots of credit to both teams and either side could have won it. 

Just one question, is the keeper handling outside the box still a red card?


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			:thup:
		
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Slightly bitter?


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 22, 2017)

Tarkus1212 said:



			What a cracking game of football that was. Lots of credit to both teams and either side could have won it. 

Just one question, is the keeper handling outside the box still a red card?[/QUOT
Only if the officials see it.
what is the linesman doing.
video replay he's off
		
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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 22, 2017)

Great performance by Chelsea and a cracking strike by Matic to seal it. Thought when Spurs back on level terms it may have gone their way but Chelsea just found a way to get it done. Double still on.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2017)

Some cracking goals - great strike from Matic. Solid performance from Chelsea without getting out of 4th gear. 

Spurs look like they have a problem getting over the line at tough times. 

Embarrassing dive from Moses - embarrassing.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 22, 2017)

Two decent semi finals today having seen most of the Hibs v Aberdeen game. Hibs did well to get into it after being 1-0 down after 12 seconds and then 2-0 down. Got it all square, much like Spurs and then out on a deflected shot.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 22, 2017)

How many did Lukaku score today??


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			How many did Lukaku score today??
		
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:rofl:

Flat track bully


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			:rofl:

Flat track bully 



Click to expand...

Did you really find that funny Phil? &#128584;&#128563;


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## pbrown7582 (Apr 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Some cracking goals - great strike from Matic. Solid performance from Chelsea without getting out of 4th gear. 

Spurs look like they have a problem getting over the line at tough times. 

Embarrassing dive from Moses - embarrassing.
		
Click to expand...



Disagree about Moses that's modern day football, as IMO there isn't a player in the Prem who isn't going down over Son's leg there. And if they don't there getting one hell of a talking too by there manager!


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			Disagree about Moses that's modern day football, as IMO there isn't a player in the Prem who isn't going down over Son's leg there. And if they don't there getting one hell of a talking too by there manager!
		
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Sad but it's true. 
Son was silly for giving Moses the opportunity to go down. 
In the modern game it's a penalty. 
But for me it should be a penalty when a player is actually brought down,rather than taking the opportunity to go down.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			Disagree about Moses that's modern day football, as IMO there isn't a player in the Prem who isn't going down over Son's leg there. And if they don't there getting one hell of a talking too by there manager!
		
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There is no contact at all so why has he gone down with the swan dive ? He could have easily hurdled the tackle and gone on with the ball but he threw himself to the ground with no touch - it's a blatant dive and cheating but you are prob right it's modern football


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There is no contact at all so why has he gone down with the swan dive ? He could have easily hurdled the tackle and gone on with the ball but he threw himself to the ground with no touch - it's a blatant dive and cheating but you are prob right it's modern football
		
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Be nice if you sat in the same armchair whilst watching the Liverpool games so that you get as clear a view & can condemn your own players when they do it &#128077;&#127995;. 

Oh look I've just turned this onto Liverpool &#128561;


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## The Evertonian (Apr 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			How many did Lukaku score today??
		
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If Liverpool could afford him would you take him?

I know it's a hyperthetical question, I'm just interested to know.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			If Liverpool could afford him would you take him?

I know it's a hyperthetical question, I'm just interested to know.
		
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Well Liverpool could afford him but no one in their right mind is going to spend the reported asking price on him - for Â£30ish mil he would be a good buy and expect A club will prob spend Â£35/40 mil to get him in the summer


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well Liverpool could afford him but no one in their right mind is going to spend the reported asking price on him - for Â£30ish mil he would be a good buy and expect A club will prob spend Â£35/40 mil to get him in the summer
		
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Premier leagues top goalscorer, international footballer, Â£30Mil :rofl: How much did Carroll costs you's, Clown!!


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well Liverpool could afford him but no one in their right mind is going to spend the reported asking price on him - for Â£30ish mil he would be a good buy and expect A club will prob spend Â£35/40 mil to get him in the summer
		
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But you spent Â£35m on Mane.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 22, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			If Liverpool could afford him would you take him?

I know it's a hyperthetical question, I'm just interested to know.
		
Click to expand...

No, and certainly not at the current figure Everton value him at. From what I've seen  his work rate isn't good enough. He's got a 1 in 2 record but so has Benteke. 




pauldj42 said:



			Premier leagues top goalscorer, international footballer, Â£30Mil :rofl: How much did Carroll costs you's, Clown!!
		
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You're obsessed with Carroll aren't yer 

And you still haven't answered my question.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 22, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			But you spent Â£35m on Mane.
		
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Mane has proved his worth this season.

His Derby winner was worth Â£20m alone.......


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			No, and certainly not at the current figure Everton value him at. From what I've seen  his work rate isn't good enough. He's got a 1 in 2 record but so has Benteke. 




You're obsessed with Carroll aren't yer 

And you still haven't answered my question.
		
Click to expand...

I ignored your first post as it was banter, :thup: as no player scores in every game.

And never in a million years would any of you lot say you'd take an Everton player and you call us bitter :rofl:


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## The Evertonian (Apr 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well Liverpool could afford him but no one in their right mind is going to spend the reported asking price on him - for Â£30ish mil he would be a good buy and expect A club will prob spend Â£35/40 mil to get him in the summer
		
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Yet Liverpool managed to draw Â£50M for Sterling?

Not even 12 months ago we sold a centre half for Â£48M, can I please have some of whatever substance you're using?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I ignored your first post as it was banter, :thup: as no player scores in every game.

And never in a million years would any of you lot say you'd take an Everton player and you call us bitter :rofl:
		
Click to expand...


You'd make a very good Tory politician  

I have a healthy dislike for Everton, I'm happy to admit that but I will always be honest about a player regardless of whom they play for.

I rate Lukaku, just not as highly as everybody else does. He's got a 1 in 2 record which is very good but the top strikers do much more than just score goals.


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## The Evertonian (Apr 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			No, and certainly not at the current figure Everton value him at. From what I've seen  his work rate isn't good enough. He's got a 1 in 2 record but so has Benteke. 




You're obsessed with Carroll aren't yer 

And you still haven't answered my question.
		
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Oh yeah....I forgot Klopp only likes players that run around a lot.

The fact is "the flat track bully" scores all his goals against the teams Liverpool struggle against. Just a thought like.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			Yet Liverpool managed to draw Â£50M for Sterling?

Not even 12 months ago we sold a centre half for Â£48M, can I please have some of whatever substance you're using?
		
Click to expand...

A lot of the Sterling fee was down to the English player tax and City more than happy to pay over the odds , same with Stone

Right now there are a lot of strikers around and expect there to be a lot on the move during the summer - with Ibrahimovich now prob done at Man Utd then can see them going for Lukaku because don't see them getting their main target , then there is Chelsea who maybe looking to get him to replace Costa but again don't see him being their number one target - so Lukaku could move this summer but because i don't see the top clubs seeing him as their main target they won't spend whatever it takes. Is there much difference between him and Benteke ? Not really from what I have seen


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			You'd make a very good Tory politician  

I have a healthy dislike for Everton, I'm happy to admit that but I will always be honest about a player regardless of whom they play for.

I rate Lukaku, just not as highly as everybody else does. He's got a 1 in 2 record which is very good but the top strikers do much more than just score goals.
		
Click to expand...

Behave, all you want your top striker to do is score goals.......end of.
He's 23 and I'll freely admit that in a bigger club he'd be an even better player, great goslscoring record for us and for the past few years we've averaged top 10 which makes his record even better, he hasn't had the top players (bar 1 or 2) around him providing the service.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A lot of the Sterling fee was down to the English player tax and City more than happy to pay over the odds , same with Stone

Right now there are a lot of strikers around and expect there to be a lot on the move during the summer - with Ibrahimovich now prob done at Man Utd then can see them going for Lukaku because don't see them getting their main target , then there is Chelsea who maybe looking to get him to replace Costa but again don't see him being their number one target - so Lukaku could move this summer but because i don't see the top clubs seeing him as their main target they won't spend whatever it takes. Is there much difference between him and Benteke ? Not really from what I have seen
		
Click to expand...

But your clueless and have an excuse for everything, all the above is waffle and like the rest of us your guessing!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 22, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			Oh yeah....I forgot Klopp only likes players that run around a lot.

The fact is "the flat track bully" scores all his goals against the teams Liverpool struggle against. Just a thought like.
		
Click to expand...

Don't forget they'd won the League last Nov playing like that :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 22, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			Oh yeah....I forgot Klopp only likes players that run around a lot.

The fact is "the flat track bully" scores all his goals against the teams Liverpool struggle against. Just a thought like.
		
Click to expand...

There's no point in buying a Â£50m striker if he only scores against 10 teams is there?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			There's no point in buying a Â£50m striker if he only scores against 10 teams is there?
		
Click to expand...

Is it better to pay Â£35Mil for a player who only scores against 5 teams then?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



*Behave, all you want your top striker to do is score goals.......end of.*
He's 23 and I'll freely admit that in a bigger club he'd be an even better player, great goslscoring record for us and for the past few years we've averaged top 10 which makes his record even better, he hasn't had the top players (bar 1 or 2) around him providing the service.
		
Click to expand...

That's not really true now is it?

The top football teams I watch all of their strikers do the dirty work aswell as score goals. He doesn't.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Is it better to pay Â£35Mil for a player who only scores against 5 teams then? 

Click to expand...

He's got more medals than Lukaku :ears:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			But your clueless and have an excuse for everything, all the above is waffle and like the rest of us your guessing!
		
Click to expand...

Phil, you've  got him on the ropes here Lad, one more to finish him :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			You'd make a very good Tory politician  

I have a healthy dislike for Everton, I'm happy to admit that but I will always be honest about a player regardless of whom they play for.

I rate Lukaku, just not as highly as everybody else does. He's got a 1 in 2 record which is very good but the top strikers do much more than just score goals.
		
Click to expand...

The comparison with Benteke is very similar - both score goals but don't get involved in the build up much , don't track back much both have shone as big fishes in small ponds - Benteke left the pond for bigger things but struggled because the demand was there for him to do more than just score goals , so left to go back to a small pond and is doing well again 

Have a feeling the same scenario will happen with Lukaku , struggle in the bigger pond.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A lot of the Sterling fee was down to the English player tax and City more than happy to pay over the odds , same with Stone

Right now there are a lot of strikers around and expect there to be a lot on the move during the summer - with Ibrahimovich now prob done at Man Utd then can see them going for Lukaku because don't see them getting their main target , then there is Chelsea who maybe looking to get him to replace Costa but again don't see him being their number one target - so Lukaku could move this summer but because i don't see the top clubs seeing him as their main target they won't spend whatever it takes. Is there much difference between him and Benteke ? Not really from what I have seen
		
Click to expand...

Tbf tho you didn't rate Neymar either. 
And Moreno was a worldie &#128563;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			He's got more medals than Lukaku :ears:
		
Click to expand...

No he hasn't :ears:


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			That's not really true now is it?

The top football teams I watch all of their strikers do the dirty work aswell as score goals. He doesn't.
		
Click to expand...

He's got more goals and assists than Mane this season and he stays fit, maybe you need a flat track bully :whoo:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The comparison with Benteke is very similar - both score goals but don't get involved in the build up much , don't track back much both have shone as big fishes in small ponds - Benteke left the pond for bigger things but struggled because the demand was there for him to do more than just score goals , so left to go back to a small pond and is doing well again 

Have a feeling the same scenario will happen with Lukaku , struggle in the bigger pond.
		
Click to expand...

3 way from a 2 way conversation again and more waffle :blah: :blah:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			He's got more goals and assists than Mane this season and he stays fit, maybe you need a flat track bully :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

Moving the goal posts again Eh, Tory politician behaviour that  :ears:

You can't compare Mane and Lukaku, two completely different players.

We don't need a flat track bully we've got Origi :rofl:


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## pbrown7582 (Apr 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A lot of the Sterling fee was down to the English player tax and City more than happy to pay over the odds , same with Stone

Right now there are a lot of strikers around and expect there to be a lot on the move during the summer - with Ibrahimovich now prob done at Man Utd then can see them going for Lukaku because don't see them getting their main target , then there is Chelsea who maybe looking to get him to replace Costa but again don't see him being their number one target - so Lukaku could move this summer but because i don't see the top clubs seeing him as their main target they won't spend whatever it takes. Is there much difference between him and Benteke ? Not really from what I have seen
		
Click to expand...


Â£86m in euros or Â£100m plus a free England striker I know which I prefer!!


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## The Evertonian (Apr 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The comparison with Benteke is very similar - both score goals but don't get involved in the build up much , don't track back much both have shone as big fishes in small ponds - Benteke left the pond for bigger things but struggled because the demand was there for him to do more than just score goals , so left to go back to a small pond and is doing well again 

Have a feeling the same scenario will happen with Lukaku , struggle in the bigger pond.
		
Click to expand...

You may think the comparison is similar, yet one striker has a 1 in 2 strike rate in the Prem over the last 4 seasons...the other has a 1 in 3 strike rate in the same period. The latter also had a 1 in 4 strike rate last season for the mighty Liverpool. 

One player is a goal machine the other has an average strike rate...personally I don't think they're that similar.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			You may think the comparison is similar, yet one striker has a 1 in 2 strike rate in the Prem over the last 4 seasons...the other has a 1 in 3 strike rate in the same period. The latter also had a 1 in 4 strike rate last season for the mighty Liverpool. 

One player is a goal machine the other has an average strike rate...personally I don't think they're that similar.
		
Click to expand...

Lukaku has a 1in 2 goal scoring record and is a goal machine  but Benteke has a 1in 2 record and it's average?


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## The Evertonian (Apr 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Lukaku has a 1in 2 goal scoring record and is a goal machine  but Benteke has a 1in 2 record and it's average?
		
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But Benteke doesn't though mate...very Tory politician of you to make up stats to suit your argument.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 23, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			You may think the comparison is similar, yet one striker has a 1 in 2 strike rate in the Prem over the last 4 seasons...the other has a 1 in 3 strike rate in the same period. The latter also had a 1 in 4 strike rate last season for the mighty Liverpool. 

One player is a goal machine the other has an average strike rate...personally I don't think they're that similar.
		
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At Genk Benteke had a 1 in 2 goal ratio 

Then for Villa he score 42 goals in 89 games for them so just slightly below 1 in 2 

Then struggled with us , moved to Palace and this season has 12 in 30 

So at the smaller clubs he does well , move to the bigger clubs and he struggled. 

At Anderlect Lukaku had 33 in 73 

None in ten at Chelsea , in his loan spell at West Brom it was 17 in 35 and Everton 15 in 31 then when he moved to Everton perm its 52 in 106 

Pretty similar records over the past 5 years - both very good big fishes


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

So Liverpool ruined Benteke, but let's blame the player :rofl:
Lot of googleing going on today :rofl:
So the player is scoring against PL teams playing for one Club, gets bought by LPool and can't score against the same teams, gets sold and starts scoring again against the other teams and it's the players fault or maybe, just maybe, he didn't get the service and LPool didn't have a clue how to play to his strengths.
Same player is scoring against the same teams for all clubs but one and the blame goes on the player. :rofl:


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## Papas1982 (Apr 23, 2017)

I've said a few times that i don't think Lukaku is quite as good as some everton fans think, that said i'd take him over benteke any day. His array of goals is a lot better imo.

 Interestingly, according to Wiki, both have the same professional appearances with Lukaku on 23 more goals. I'd be amazed if that gap didn't grow, irrespective of what team they play for next season.

Re transfer fees, Everton paid Â£28m and he has been a success so he will likely cost north of Â£50, add in the fact that he qualifies as home grown i believe and he's certainly worth it when compared to stones and Sterling imo.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I've said a few times that i don't think Lukaku is quite as good as some everton fans think, that said i'd take him over benteke any day. His array of goals is a lot better imo.

 Interestingly, according to Wiki, both have the same professional appearances with Lukaku on 23 more goals. I'd be amazed if that gap didn't grow, irrespective of what team they play for next season.

Re transfer fees, Everton paid Â£28m and he has been a success so he will likely cost north of Â£50, add in the fact that he qualifies as home grown i believe and he's certainly worth it when compared to stones and Sterling imo.
		
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To be fair though, Lukaku has been very succesful for us and we don't want to lose him, it's not Everton fans starting these conversations is it, we're simply defending his record when the jealous red mist descends and other fans put him down.
If we are to lose him then we want the most money we can get, I don't think that's over rating him, just commonsense.
If he stays in the Prem then he'll be playing against the same defences to say he'll struggle is just idiotic.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			To be fair though, Lukaku has been very succesful for us and we don't want to lose him, it's not Everton fans starting these conversations is it, we're simply defending his record when the jealous red mist descends and other fans put him down.
If we are to lose him then we want the most money we can get, I don't think that's over rating him, just commonsense.
*If he stays in the Prem then he'll be playing against the same defences to say he'll struggle is just idiotic*.
		
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When i said over rating him, i meant on a skill level. I'm not convinced he is as good as quite a few others. A goal every other game isn't as good as a lot of the worlds best. Of course with all respect to everton, with better players he may get more from more chances. I wasn't suggesting everton fans were wrong on a financial level. I would fully expect a selling to team to get as much as possible for an asset they don't want to lose. Trust me as a saints fan i'm well versed in that..

I agree in the main, but, Its not a given he will succede eleswhere either. He didn't like having to battle for his place at CHelsea, i'd presume wherever he goes he will be first choice due to the fee it will take. But it will add another level of pressure. I don't think he's a flat track bully but how will he cope having to score week in week out to justify his place. Lots of examples of good players thriving at so called smaller clubs. So not out of the question to question whether he will be a sucess. That said, his recent history warrants the fees being touted and there is certainly more reasons to expect a hefty fee than for him to fail.

Personally i'd like to see him at utd as i think they would play the style suiting him best if Zlatan left.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			When i said over rating him, i meant on a skill level. I'm not convinced he is as good as quite a few others. A goal every other game isn't as good as a lot of the worlds best. Of course with all respect to everton, with better players he may get more from more chances. I wasn't suggesting everton fans were wrong on a financial level. I would fully expect a selling to team to get as much as possible for an asset they don't want to lose. Trust me as a saints fan i'm well versed in that..

I agree in the main, but, Its not a given he will succede eleswhere either. He didn't like having to battle for his place at CHelsea, i'd presume wherever he goes he will be first choice due to the fee it will take. But it will add another level of pressure. I don't think he's a flat track bully but how will he cope having to score week in week out to justify his place. Lots of examples of good players thriving at so called smaller clubs. So not out of the question to question whether he will be a sucess. That said, his recent history warrants the fees being touted and there is certainly more reasons to expect a hefty fee than for him to fail.

Personally i'd like to see him at utd as i think they would play the style suiting him best if Zlatan left.
		
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The comments were not aimed at you, what we tend to forget about Lukaku when discussing Chelsea is is that he was 18/19 and Chelsea had better proven players producing the goods, he's still only 23 and who are you comparing him to when you say a goal every other game isn't as good as a lot of the worlds best, who are these players scoring every game and who in their right mind would compare him to the worlds best.

The better clubs tend to have 4 or 5 players chipping in with goals, City Chelsea Utd etc, so all of them would benefit from a proven goalscorer getting 15-20 a season.


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## Hobbit (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			So Liverpool ruined Benteke, but let's blame the player :rofl:
Lot of googleing going on today :rofl:
So the player is scoring against PL teams playing for one Club, gets bought by LPool and can't score against the same teams, gets sold and starts scoring again against the other teams and it's the players fault or maybe, just maybe, he didn't get the service and LPool didn't have a clue how to play to his strengths.
Same player is scoring against the same teams for all clubs but one and the blame goes on the player. :rofl:
		
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Didn't Liverpool also buy a player called Andy Carroll?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Didn't Liverpool also buy a player called Andy Carroll?

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You're not allowed to mention him


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## Hobbit (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			You're not allowed to mention him 

Click to expand...

Yet another player that didn't play the Liverpool way..... but they were stupid enough to buy him even though they knew his style. Taking a punt on an unknown, fine, but buying a proven striker and then screwing it up, incompetent. Or maybe the dental plan for them wasn't as good as the one they had for Nasher Saurez...???


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Yet another player that didn't play the Liverpool way..... but they were stupid enough to buy him even though they knew his style. Taking a punt on an unknown, fine, but buying a proven striker and then screwing it up, incompetent. Or maybe the dental plan for them wasn't as good as the one they had for Nasher Saurez...???
		
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Behave,  if you keep goading them they'll have to mention Istanbul and 5 times and Slippy G and call the Champions League Trophy "Big Ears" and then you'll have no answer  :ears:


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## Hobbit (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Behave,  if you keep goading them they'll have to mention Istanbul and 5 times and Slippy G and call the Champions League Trophy "Big Ears" and then you'll have no answer  :ears:
		
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Is that Slippy G the MMA fighter?:whoo:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			But Benteke doesn't though mate...very Tory politician of you to make up stats to suit your argument.
		
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Benteke has started 126 PL games and scored 63 PL goals which makes his record as 1 goal every 2 games. Add his sub appearances on and he still has a record of 1 in 2.349. 

None of these stats have been made up.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			So Liverpool ruined Benteke, but let's blame the player :rofl:
Lot of googleing going on today :rofl:
So the player is scoring against PL teams playing for one Club, gets bought by LPool and can't score against the same teams, gets sold and starts scoring again against the other teams and it's the players fault or maybe, just maybe, he didn't get the service and LPool didn't have a clue how to play to his strengths.
Same player is scoring against the same teams for all clubs but one and the blame goes on the player. :rofl:
		
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Liverpool never ruined him. Benteke stunk the gaff out at times  but you wouldn't see that from the comfort of your armchair 

I didn't think benteke was the answer and was very surprised when we signed him as he didn't look the type of player to fit into Rodgers side.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			The comments were not aimed at you, what we tend to forget about Lukaku when discussing Chelsea is is that he was 18/19 and Chelsea had better proven players producing the goods, he's still only 23 and who are you comparing him to when you say a goal every other game isn't as good as a lot of the worlds best, who are these players scoring every game and who in their right mind would compare him to the worlds best.

The better clubs tend to have 4 or 5 players chipping in with goals, City Chelsea Utd etc, so all of them would benefit from a proven goalscorer getting 15-20 a season.
		
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My biggest concern for him is the way he scores his goals. Most seasons he has a game where he gets 4 plus a hatrick to boot. So whilst his totals are good. It's turning 0-0 to 1-0 that's my concern. I agree about him being young previously at Chelsea, can look at it two ways. One he wanted games so choose to take a chance. Other is that he lacks patience or confidence he was good enough to get game time. 

As to chelsea or city benefiting from him. Not sure that's true. If city had Aguero fit, would he get enough games to get 15? Or Costa at Chelsea? I doubt it. I agree if he goes to a big club and is number one he will score goals. But he has to play all the games to get them. He strikes me as a streaky striker so needs the games to amass the goals. 

Strikers i I think I'd have over him. Aguero, Lacazette, Kane, Cavana, lewandowski, Ronaldo, Suarez, neymar, messi, Costa, higuain. 

How many of them are attainable for the top teams in England is debatable. And he may get there. But for me, to be a true game changing striker the ration needs to be closer to 2/3 or 3/4. Not 1/2. That's a good steady striker. But not one that I'd choose first.

btw, I reckon he'd make Liverpool better instantly. Once he displaced origi of course.....

oh id add agyeman to the list too.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			To be fair though, Lukaku has been very succesful for us and we don't want to lose him, it's not Everton fans starting these conversations is it, we're simply defending his record when the jealous red mist descends and other fans put him down.
If we are to lose him then we want the most money we can get, I don't think that's over rating him, just commonsense.
If he stays in the Prem then he'll be playing against the same defences to say he'll struggle is just idiotic.
		
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Jealous red mist :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Didn't Liverpool also buy a player called Andy Carroll?

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They did, his Derby winner in the semi at Wembley was worth his fee alone :rofl: :whoo: 



pauldj42 said:



			You're not allowed to mention him 

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Yes you are but he's irrelevant in this debate.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			My biggest concern for him is the way he scores his goals. Most seasons he has a game where he gets 4 plus a hatrick to boot. So whilst his totals are good. It's turning 0-0 to 1-0 that's my concern. I agree about him being young previously at Chelsea, can look at it two ways. One he wanted games so choose to take a chance. Other is that he lacks patience or confidence he was good enough to get game time. 

As to chelsea or city benefiting from him. Not sure that's true. If city had Aguero fit, would he get enough games to get 15? Or Costa at Chelsea? I doubt it. I agree if he goes to a big club and is number one he will score goals. But he has to play all the games to get them. He strikes me as a streaky striker so needs the games to amass the goals. 

Strikers i I think I'd have over him. Aguero, Lacazette, Kane, Cavana, lewandowski, Ronaldo, Suarez, neymar, messi, Costa, higuain. 

How many of them are attainable for the top teams in England is debatable. And he may get there. But for me, to be a true game changing striker the ration needs to be closer to 2/3 or 3/4. Not 1/2. That's a good steady striker. But not one that I'd choose first.

btw, I reckon he'd make Liverpool better instantly. Once he displaced origi of course.....

oh id add agyeman to the list too.
		
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Seriously, look at who you're comparing him against, apart from Kane, (who he's out scoring) they are the worlds best, it's a compliment to him even putting him with that lot.
As for needing a lot of games and a streaky goalscorer, he's one of the fastest to reach 100 PL goals.

All of this apparently while playing for a small club, in the better sides he'll get the service, there's very few 0-0 games Everton dominate and create 15-20 chances in.

Look at yesterday, Koeman basically said the team was rubbish, but the focus is on Lukaku, not the other 13 who took part.

Which strikers have a 3/4 or even 2/3 strike rate? Most have a purple patch, but I'd doubt very few have that rate over a career.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			They did, his Derby winner in the semi at Wembley was worth his fee alone :rofl: :whoo: 



Yes you are but he's irrelevant in this debate.
		
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Apart from Suarez you haven't had a striker that's come anywhere near Lukaku's goals in a season for nearly 20 years or more.

What you do have is a long list of bad buys that weren't the clubs fault :rofl:


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## Papas1982 (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Seriously, look at who you're comparing him against, apart from Kane, (who he's out scoring) they are the worlds best, it's a compliment to him even putting him with that lot.
As for needing a lot of games and a streaky goalscorer, he's one of the fastest to reach 100 PL goals.

All of this apparently while playing for a small club, in the better sides he'll get the service, there's very few 0-0 games Everton dominate and create 15-20 chances in.

Look at yesterday, Koeman basically said the team was rubbish, but the focus is on Lukaku, not the other 13 who took part.

Which strikers have a 3/4 or even 2/3 strike rate? Most have a purple patch, but I'd doubt very few have that rate over a career.
		
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If you want him to go for the100m touted in the papers then that's who he should be compared to. Should I use hesky n Carroll so it makes him look better?

scoring 100 quickly is irrelevant in regards to him being streaky. I stated that as the games accumulate he amasses good figures. But most big teams would benefit from strikers scoring 8 individual goals in 10/12 games instead of scoring them all in 3 games and being None in the rest. 

Hes only outscoring Kane due to games played. In Kane's 3 years as a prem striker he's had a better goals ratio each time. But we've had this convo before.....

I'm not saying that all strikers have that ratio start to finish. But the best will do for 3/4 seasons. The trick is to get them when they do and I'm not convinced he has that in his locker. 

Pretty sure all the players I mentioned have rations for last few seasons at 2/3 or better. Hence them being mentioned as, as above. That's what you want from a 100m fee.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 23, 2017)

&#127907;&#127907;&#127907; you've got him here Stu La


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Didn't Liverpool also buy a player called Andy Carroll?

Click to expand...




pauldj42 said:



			You're not allowed to mention him 

Click to expand...




pauldj42 said:



			Apart from Suarez you haven't had a striker that's come anywhere near Lukaku's goals in a season for nearly 20 years or more.

What you do have is a long list of bad buys that weren't the clubs fault :rofl:
		
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Torres scored 65 in about 110.......


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## Papas1982 (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Apart from Suarez you haven't had a striker that's come anywhere near Lukaku's goals in a season for nearly 20 years or more.

What you do have is a long list of bad buys that weren't the clubs fault :rofl:
		
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Torres?
owen fits timescales too.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Torres scored 65 in about 110.......
		
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Sturridge?


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 23, 2017)

Thing is with Torres he then struggled when he moved to a big club. 
Big fish &#128556;


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## Papas1982 (Apr 23, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Thing is with Torres he then struggled when he moved to a big club. 
Big fish &#63020;
		
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Boom!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			If you want him to go for the100m touted in the papers then that's who he should be compared to. Should I use hesky n Carroll so it makes him look better?

scoring 100 quickly is irrelevant in regards to him being streaky. I stated that as the games accumulate he amasses good figures. But most big teams would benefit from strikers scoring 8 individual goals in 10/12 games instead of scoring them all in 3 games and being None in the rest. 

Hes only outscoring Kane due to games played. In Kane's 3 years as a prem striker he's had a better goals ratio each time. But we've had this convo before.....

I'm not saying that all strikers have that ratio start to finish. But the best will do for 3/4 seasons. The trick is to get them when they do and I'm not convinced he has that in his locker. 

Pretty sure all the players I mentioned have rations for last few seasons at 2/3 or better. Hence them being mentioned as, as above. That's what you want from a 100m fee.
		
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You need to stop believing the papers, they're the only ones mentioning Â£100mil.
Koeman and the Club have said nothing but wanting him to stay.

We can play stats both ways, now Lukaku is weaker because he stays fit and scores goals all season rather than playing less and scoring fewer as that's a better ratio


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 23, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Boom!
		
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True tho. 
Sturridge couldn't cut it at a big club,moved to Liverpool and found his level. Big fish. 

Maybe Phil was right about Benteke &#128514;


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## Papas1982 (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			You need to stop believing the papers, they're the only ones mentioning Â£100mil.
Koeman and the Club have said nothing but wanting him to stay.

We can play stats both ways, now Lukaku is weaker because he stays fit and scores goals all season rather than playing less and scoring fewer as that's a better ratio 

Click to expand...

Im not saying he will go for 100m. Believe Â£50/60m realistic though. But I'm just saying that the top clubs may aspire for the ones I mentioned ahead of Lukaku. If they could get them. 

Im not saying that Lukaku playing more is a bad thing. But like you said about him adding goals to a team if he was there. I'd hazard a guess that during Kane's absence his replacement scored enough that Spurs main striker scored more over 38 games than Everton's. Of course that's also helped by Spurs being the better team. 

Like i saod. We've had this convo before. I'd have Kane over Lukaku and going on their total prem records it's clear to me why. But if we're talking picks on the school field. Neither are bad choices.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			You need to stop believing the papers, they're the only ones mentioning Â£100mil.
Koeman and the Club have said nothing but wanting him to stay.

We can play stats both ways, now Lukaku is weaker because he stays fit and scores goals all season rather than playing less and scoring fewer as that's a better ratio 

Click to expand...

Let's go back to the old fashioned way of rating players by ignoring stats then.......... Yep he's still a flat track bully :whoo:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Torres scored 65 in about 110.......
		
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Torres best in one season was 24, same as Lukaku currently has, Owen never got more than 22 PL goals in a season. apart from Suarez you have to go back to Fowler over 20 years ago :whoo:


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## Papas1982 (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Torres best in one season was 24, same as Lukaku currently has, Owen never got more than 22 PL goals in a season. apart from Suarez you have to go back to Fowler over 20 years ago :whoo:
		
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So does Lukaku only contribute in the league now? Pretty sure Owens goals came in quite handy winning a few cups.....


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Torres best in one season was 24, same as Lukaku currently has, Owen never got more than 22 PL goals in a season. apart from Suarez you have to go back to Fowler over 20 years ago :whoo:
		
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Moving the posts AGAIN :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			So does Lukaku only contribute in the league now? Pretty sure Owens goals came in quite handy winning a few cups.....
		
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So the whole discussion isn't about the PL?
How many of the forwards you listed have proved themselves in the PL?
Maybe you can define the boundaries of the conversation so I can keep on track.
Maybe we should compare international goals as Kane has nowhere near Lukaku's total.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Moving the posts AGAIN :rofl:
		
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Answer the question :ears:


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## Papas1982 (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			So the whole discussion isn't about the PL?
How many of the forwards you listed have proved themselves in the PL?
Maybe you can define the boundaries of the conversation so I can keep on track.
Maybe we should compare international goals as Kane has nowhere near Lukaku's total.
		
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If the discussion was purely on pl then yes. As far as pl strikers currently go he is top 5. But if you're talking Top prem clubs signing a player then there are lots more. 

Id suggest a domestic record would be how most teams would scout players. How about just total careers goals per game ratio. That might help Lukaku get the better figures. How about you define exactly how we should compare or is it only everyone else changin things for their benefit and not yourself....


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			If the discussion was purely on pl then yes. As far as pl strikers currently go he is top 5. But if you're talking Top prem clubs signing a player then there are lots more. 

Id suggest a domestic record would be how most teams would scout players. How about just total careers goals per game ratio. That might help Lukaku get the better figures. How about you define exactly how we should compare or is it only everyone else changin things for their benefit and not yourself....
		
Click to expand...

I thought we were discussing PL, have a look at Stu's original post, I'm merely defending Lukaku from other peoples posts, never claimed he's the worlds best. You brought the others from around the world not me


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I thought we were discussing PL, have a look at Stu's original post, I'm merely defending Lukaku from other peoples posts, never claimed he's the worlds best.
		
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You still havent answered it :ears:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Off to cut the M-in-laws grass, laterz :whoo:


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 23, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Yet another player that didn't play the Liverpool way..... but they were stupid enough to buy him even though they knew his style. Taking a punt on an unknown, fine, but buying a proven striker and then screwing it up, incompetent. Or maybe the dental plan for them wasn't as good as the one they had for Nasher Saurez...???
		
Click to expand...

Carroll was a strange signing , not sure if Kenny saw him working in a partnership with Suarez , and it's a shame for his injuries because I think he can be a beast of player, a times he was unplayable and still annoyed that Rodgers didn't give him a chance. But Â£35 mil was a lot of money.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 23, 2017)

What's the crack with players wearing t shirts with players names on when they get injured?
Embarrassing


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## Slime (Apr 23, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			What's the crack with players wearing t shirts with players names on when they get injured?
Embarrassing
		
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I don't get it and I wouldn't feel comfortable having to do it.
With regards to the actual game, I think United must be colour blind. Their passing in the first fifteen minutes has been absolutely atrocious. 
Now, that's embarrasing!



As is Fellaini .................. no change there then.


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## Slime (Apr 23, 2017)

BOOOOM. Terrific goal from Martial.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 23, 2017)

Cmon city


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 23, 2017)

Penalty on Rooney no wonder he's moaning to ref.
Fellani lucky boy high boot Hull player sent off harshly for that yesterday


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 23, 2017)

Slime said:



			BOOOOM. Terrific goal from Martial.
		
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Apparently that goal cost UTD Â£8.5m


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## Fish (Apr 23, 2017)

It's his 25th goal and was written into his contract that once he hit that they pay Monaco 8.5m.


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## sawtooth (Apr 23, 2017)

:whoo: Well deserved win!! Sorry Tashy but your boys weren't good enough for us today.


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## anotherdouble (Apr 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			:whoo: Well deserved win!! Sorry Tashy but your boys weren't good enough for us today.
		
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Thought u didn't recognise any games involving city or Chelsea. So today didn't count in your book and the final doesn't exist


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## Hobbit (Apr 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			:whoo: Well deserved win!! Sorry Tashy but your boys weren't good enough for us today.
		
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At least if you win it you'll get into the Europa Cup.... oops, just remembered that you've got Chelsea in the final...Well, at least there won't be so many mid week games to worry about next season.


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## richy (Apr 23, 2017)

This just got interesting


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## Fish (Apr 23, 2017)

richy said:



			This just got interesting
		
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Yep, and IF both Manc clubs win their games in hand, it's back to 5th &#128540; ( Peter  &#128521; )


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## ger147 (Apr 23, 2017)

Fish said:



			Yep, and IF both Manc clubs win their games in hand, it's back to 5th &#128540; ( Peter  &#128521; )
		
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One of the games is a Manchester derby so they both can't win all their games.


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## Fish (Apr 23, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			At least if you win it you'll get into the Europa Cup.... oops, just remembered that you've got Chelsea in the final...Well, at least there won't be so many mid week games to worry about next season.
		
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If I'd had to have chosen who'd I'd prefer to be against, it would definitely have been the gurners.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 23, 2017)

Anyone for a flat track bully? 
&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128076;


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## Fish (Apr 23, 2017)

ger147 said:



			One of the games is a Manchester derby so they both can't win all their games.
		
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Another slip up against a bottom side club them hopefully &#128540; The mighty Boro maybe &#128514;


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## Fish (Apr 23, 2017)

6 minutes &#128563;


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## chrisd (Apr 23, 2017)

Ahhhhhhhhh !


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## One Planer (Apr 23, 2017)

chrisd said:



			Ahhhhhhhhh !
		
Click to expand...

Longest 6 minutes of your life eh Chris?


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## chrisd (Apr 23, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Longest 6 minutes of your life eh Chris?
		
Click to expand...

Funny enough I didn't feel Liverpool posed much threat in those minutes and a draw would have still been a decent result


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## sawtooth (Apr 23, 2017)

Wow, my Sunday just got even better. &#128522;


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## Fish (Apr 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Wow, my Sunday just got even better. &#128522;
		
Click to expand...

Why, you got your sights set on 5th &#128514;&#128514;


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## sawtooth (Apr 23, 2017)

Fish said:



			Why, you got your sights set on 5th &#128514;&#128514;
		
Click to expand...

No you don't get a trophy for 5th. FA Cup is what we want.&#128537;


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## anotherdouble (Apr 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			No you don't get a trophy for 5th. FA Cup is what we want.&#128537;
		
Click to expand...

But you don't recognise the game


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 23, 2017)

Liverpool lose & Arsenal get to a final. 
Anyone seen Phil?? &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## fundy (Apr 23, 2017)

trolls everywhere, this thread just a complete trollfest currently!


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 23, 2017)

fundy said:



			trolls everywhere, this thread just a complete trollfest currently!
		
Click to expand...

Where?


----------



## Fish (Apr 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			No you don't get a trophy for 5th. FA Cup is what we want.ðŸ˜™
		
Click to expand...

What you want and what you'll get is two very different things. 

Â£20 to H4H's says you don't lift it.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2017)

chrisd said:



			Funny enough I didn't feel Liverpool posed much threat in those minutes and a draw would have still been a decent result
		
Click to expand...

We never posed much of a threat throughout the whole game. A shocking performance from us.

A cracking goal from Coutinho though.

Lovren getting dragged out of position for the 1st goal, Can and Lovren switching off again for the 2nd. Pathetic.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			We never posed much of a threat throughout the whole game. A shocking performance from us.

A cracking goal from Coutinho though.

Lovren getting dragged out of position for the 1st goal, Can and Lovren switching off again for the 2nd. Pathetic.
		
Click to expand...

Should get Sakho back &#128514;


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			We never posed much of a threat throughout the whole game. A shocking performance from us.

A cracking goal from Coutinho though.

Lovren getting dragged out of position for the 1st goal, Can and Lovren switching off again for the 2nd. Pathetic.
		
Click to expand...

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Benteke &#128515;&#128515;&#128515;&#128515;&#128515;&#128515;

Excuses, excuses,

Maybe someone should've warned Klopp that these FLAT TRACK BULLY'S always score against the small clubs.


----------



## chrisd (Apr 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			We never posed much of a threat throughout the whole game. A shocking performance from us.

A cracking goal from Coutinho though.

Lovren getting dragged out of position for the 1st goal, Can and Lovren switching off again for the 2nd. Pathetic.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed, and bolt on certainty that Benteke would score today!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Anyone else have Benteke to score and Palace to win or was it just me :whoo:


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Anyone else have Benteke to score and Palace to win or was it just me :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

I just ad Palace at 5s &#128513;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Just in case someone doesn't believe me &#128515;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The comparison with Benteke is very similar - both score goals but don't get involved in the build up much , don't track back much both have shone as big fishes in small ponds - Benteke left the pond for bigger things but struggled because the demand was there for him to do more than just score goals , so left to go back to a small pond and is doing well again 

Have a feeling the same scenario will happen with Lukaku , struggle in the bigger pond.
		
Click to expand...

Humble pie anyone? :rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Just in case someone doesn't believe me &#128515;
View attachment 22501

Click to expand...

If only betting a fiver you should have doubled it


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Where's all the red noses? Come out, come out wherever you are :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			If only betting a fiver you should have doubled it
		
Click to expand...

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, the money really isn't important today :thup:


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## Slime (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Humble pie anyone? :rofl:
		
Click to expand...


Yes please. 
The finest rock and roll band in the land .............................








Sorry, wrong thread .


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Hindsight is a wonderful thing, the money really isn't important today :thup:
		
Click to expand...

True


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2017)

chrisd said:



			Agreed, and bolt on certainty that Benteke would score today!
		
Click to expand...

It's always the way, I more annoyed at how easy we made it for him.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Benteke &#128515;&#128515;&#128515;&#128515;&#128515;&#128515;

Excuses, excuses,

Maybe someone should've warned Klopp that these FLAT TRACK BULLY'S always score against the small clubs.
		
Click to expand...

No excuses just my analysis of the game  I watched.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			It's always the way, I more annoyed at how easy we made it for him.
		
Click to expand...

Don't feel bad mate, lots of little clubs struggle against flat track bullies :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Where's all the red noses? Come out, come out wherever you are :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Probably in the same place as you was after the Derby :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Don't feel bad mate, lots of little clubs struggle against flat track bullies :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

 You'd know all about little clubs


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Probably in the same place as you was after the Derby :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

:thup: nice try at a deflection, you can't live in the past :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			You'd know all about little clubs
		
Click to expand...

Yes mate, been watching yous for years :whoo:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			:thup: nice try at a deflection, you can't live in the past :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones :whoo:


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			It's always the way, I more annoyed at how easy we made it for him.
		
Click to expand...

Schoolboy defending by  Lovren and Lucas.
We are just not equipped for teams who defend deep and hit on the break 
They just carry on making the same mistakes.
Well done to CP their tactics were spot on.

Klopp I am having my doughts  ok in the German Leauge but in the prem?
our bench looked like a school day out.

My only gripe is penalty on Coutino how is it an advantage if your off balance shot is blocked when tripped up in the penalty area.
No wonder players go down with contact in the box.
apart from that thought ref was good.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

Don't think you'll ever learn though mate, you keep chucking them :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Yes mate, been watching yous Winning loads for years :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

:rofl: :rofl::rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			:whoo:

That will do nicely 

Only negative is the injury to Mane 

Nice gap building to team in 5th
		
Click to expand...

How's the gap to 5th :whoo:


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			We never posed much of a threat throughout the whole game. A shocking performance from us.

A cracking goal from Coutinho though.

Lovren getting dragged out of position for the 1st goal, Can and Lovren switching off again for the 2nd. Pathetic.
		
Click to expand...

Second goal is down to Lucas zonal he is standing where Benteke heads the ball in.
he is drawn to the ball and moves from his position.
Firminno was on the front man position and never covered him self in glory with his challenge.
Lovren needs to learn not to comit himself and just stay on his feet and make the striker beat him.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Second goal is down to Lucas zonal he is standing where Benteke heads the ball in.
he is drawn to the ball and moves from his position.
Firminno was on the front man position and never covered him self in glory with his challenge.
Lovren needs to learn not to comit himself and just stay on his feet and make the striker beat him.
		
Click to expand...

You've been saying similar for months, why isn't klippetty seeing these things?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Schoolboy defending by  Lovren and Lucas.
We are just not equipped for teams who defend deep and hit on the break 
They just carry on making the same mistakes.
Well done to CP their tactics were spot on.

Klopp I am having my doughts  ok in the German Leauge but in the prem? 




			He needs time and proper backing. Look at that side that ended the game and apart from Coutinho and firmino it's average at best. 
Add Mane and Lallana  to those two and we're miles away from were we should be quality wise in our squad.
		
Click to expand...

*our bench looked like a school day out*.




			Thats all down to our wonderful owners
		
Click to expand...

My only gripe is penalty on Coutino how is it an advantage if your off balance shot is blocked when tripped up in the penalty area.
No wonder players go down with contact in the box.
apart from that thought ref was good.
		
Click to expand...

We never created enough, that is the biggest factor in today's result.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Second goal is down to Lucas zonal he is standing where Benteke heads the ball in.
he is drawn to the ball and moves from his position.
Firminno was on the front man position and never covered him self in glory with his challenge.
Lovren needs to learn not to comit himself and just stay on his feet and make the striker beat him.
		
Click to expand...

I've not seen a replay of it but it's not Lucas it was Lovren. Can lost benteke way too easy and Lovren  let benteke  have a free header.

Lovren is a load of pony.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			How's the gap to 5th :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

What are you worrying about 5th position for?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			How many did Lukaku score today??
		
Click to expand...

Happy to take a 0-0 draw than a 2-1 defeat :rofl: #keepyourpowderdry


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			You've been saying similar for months, why isn't klippetty seeing these things?
		
Click to expand...

Must be those glasses he wears.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			What are you worrying about 5th position for?
		
Click to expand...

Not worrying mate, that's for you lot, didn't you win the league in Nov, then top 3 at Christmas, top 4 in April. Will it be top 6 in may? :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Happy to take a 0-0 draw than a 2-1 defeat :rofl: #keepyourpowderdry
		
Click to expand...

A typical Tory politician response.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Not worrying mate, that's for you lot, didn't you win the league in Nov, then top 3 at Christmas, top 4 in April. Will it be top 6 in may? :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

No we never, league's aren't won in November.


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## sawtooth (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Anyone else have Benteke to score and Palace to win or was it just me :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

I had a tenner on Palace to win when they were 1-1, 8/1


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			A typical Tory politician response.
		
Click to expand...

Now now Stu, I know you're hurting but some insults are below the belt :thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			No we never, league's aren't won in November.
		
Click to expand...

Just wish all your fans knew that. :whoo:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Now now Stu, I know you're hurting but some insults are below the belt :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Not an insult merely an observation. I asked a question and you answered a complete different question.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Not an insult merely an observation. I asked a question and you answered a complete different question.
		
Click to expand...

OK mate :thup:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			OK mate :thup:
		
Click to expand...

You still haven't answered the question


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

For anyone who hasn't seen todays results MOTD2 is on after the news.
Well worth watching, a top 3 team is playing a team near the bottom, should be a cracker :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			You still haven't answered the question 

Click to expand...

What question mate?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			For anyone who hasn't seen todays results MOTD2 is on after the news.
Well worth watching, a top 3 team is playing a team near the bottom, should be a cracker :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Can't believe BBC News gave the scores out!
I'm writing in to complain :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

Can needs a shoeing for Benteke's second!!!


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## The Evertonian (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Can needs a shoeing for Benteke's second!!!
		
Click to expand...

Turns out Benteke is not a 1 in 2 striker after all.....he's a 2 in 1 striker :clap:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 23, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			Turns out Benteke is not a 1 in 2 striker after all.....he's a 2 in 1 striker :clap:
		
Click to expand...

:whoo: :rofl:


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 23, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Can needs a shoeing for Benteke's second!!!
		
Click to expand...

Can is poor but if you watch it again just watch Lucas he is standing right where  Benteke heads the ball .
The whole point of zonal marking is you stay in your zone.
Lucas is drawn to the ball at the near post.
I think Klopp hasn't a clue how to defend.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 24, 2017)

Well that was a lovely day out at wemberlee. :rant:


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## Tashyboy (Apr 24, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			:whoo: Well deserved win!! Sorry Tashy but your boys weren't good enough for us today.
		
Click to expand...

Another day where we never took our chances, that and another dodgy official. Once Silva was kicked outta the game it was always gonna be a struggle. 
Had a good laugh with the Arse fans after the game.


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## Fish (Apr 24, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Had a good laugh with the Arse fans after the game.
		
Click to expand...

Not everyone did, some fighting immediately outside the stadium...


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 24, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			Turns out Benteke is not a 1 in 2 striker after all.....he's a 2 in 1 striker :clap:
		
Click to expand...

In the words of my kids, ow burn.

I find it funny that so many pages have recently about condemning strikers who score goals. Have a go at strikers who score 6, 7, 8 a year, not the guys getting 20+. History shows scoring is the hardest bit of football. If you have someone who does it for fun, year after year, then treasure them.

Anyone claiming they wouldn't take a 20+ per year striker is kidding themselves unless it's the team who is winning all the trophies already.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 24, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			Turns out Benteke is not a 1 in 2 striker after all.....he's a 2 in 1 striker :clap:
		
Click to expand...

:clap: :clap:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 24, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Can is poor but if you watch it again just watch Lucas he is standing right where  Benteke heads the ball .
The whole point of zonal marking is you stay in your zone.
Lucas is drawn to the ball at the near post.
I think Klopp hasn't a clue how to defend.
		
Click to expand...

Lucas moves but it still doesn't help Lovren isn't aware of what's going on around him. Benteke ended up directly in front of Lovren. 

Zonal or man marking it doesn't matter when the same players are switching off at set pieces time and time again.

Klopp doesnt have a clue  How To defend?? That's a myth.

There was a clear plan on how they were going to defend set pieces, it wasn't Klopp's fault that those  players switched off again. 

It's going to be a massive summer for recruitment


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 24, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			It's going to be a massive summer for recruitment
		
Click to expand...

Aldi's and Lidl are recruiting now :rofl:


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## sawtooth (Apr 24, 2017)

It happening quite a bit Liverpool conceding goals and points from winning positions, and Klopp's record in finals strongly suggests that he doesn't know how to shut up shop.

I'm struggling to see how he is any better than Rodgers in that dept.

Mental/Physical burn out is the most likely explanation, it seems that Klopp teams can only play and do well flat out doing the high press and that isn't really sustainable - at least if the players are not used to it. Maybe they will have more stamina next year who knows.

Sunday was just another example where teams that are able to hang on and wait for Liverpool to drop their levels can finish strongly and get something out of the game.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 24, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			It happening quite a bit Liverpool conceding goals and points from winning positions, and Klopp's record in finals strongly suggests that he doesn't know how to shut up shop.

I'm struggling to see how he is any better than Rodgers in that dept.

Mental/Physical burn out is the most likely explanation, it seems that Klopp teams can only play and do well flat out doing the high press and that isn't really sustainable - at least if the players are not used to it. Maybe they will have more stamina next year who knows.

Sunday was just another example where teams that are able to hang on and wait for Liverpool to drop their levels can finish strongly and get something out of the game.
		
Click to expand...

What's Wengers excuse?


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## fundy (Apr 24, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			What's Wengers excuse?
		
Click to expand...

not sure Wenger needs one for this Sunday


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## Stuart_C (Apr 24, 2017)

fundy said:



			not sure Wenger needs one for this Sunday 

Click to expand...

Correct, only for a poor guess from the lino disallowing a perfectly good goal we wouldn't have heard from sawtooth today.


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## fundy (Apr 24, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Correct, only for a poor guess from the lino disallowing a perfectly good goal we wouldn't have heard from sawtooth today.
		
Click to expand...

might have been a good thing (in more ways than one)


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## Stuart_C (Apr 24, 2017)

fundy said:



			might have been a good thing (in more ways than one) 

Click to expand...

Gotcha


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 24, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			What's Wengers excuse?
		
Click to expand...

Why turn this into Wenger? 
Sawtooth was discussing Liverpool. 

I hate it when people do that &#128527;


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## User62651 (Apr 24, 2017)

Are we allowed to discuss non-EPL in this thread?

Messi worth a mention, I'm not his or Barca's biggest fan and thought he was past his best but he wasn't half brilliant last night. That left foot for his 2 goals, right in the heart of enemy territory too, not sure why he had the shirt off with his name held up -was that to his own support or taunting the RM crowd? Ronaldo shaking his head at Messi's winner was quite telling I thought.....too good, even for Ronnie.


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## GreiginFife (Apr 24, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Are we allowed to discuss non-EPL in this thread?

Messi worth a mention, I'm not his or Barca's biggest fan and thought he was past his best but he wasn't half brilliant last night. That left foot for his 2 goals, right in the heart of enemy territory too, n*ot sure why he had the shirt off with his name held up* -was that to his own support or taunting the RM crowd? Ronaldo shaking his head at Messi's winner was quite telling I thought.....too good, even for Ronnie.
		
Click to expand...

It was his 500th goal for Barca.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 24, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Why turn this into Wenger? 
Sawtooth was discussing Liverpool. 

I hate it when people do that &#128527;
		
Click to expand...

I couldn't resist.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 24, 2017)

Nice to see Everton U23's won the Premier League 2 title tonight.
Hopefully see a few more of those players moving through to the 1st team.

&#128079;&#128079;&#128079;&#128079;


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## The Evertonian (Apr 24, 2017)

&#128521; &#9996;&#127995;


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## The Evertonian (Apr 24, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			:clap: :clap:
		
Click to expand...

&#128521; &#9996;&#127995;


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## The Evertonian (Apr 24, 2017)

A well deserved title win &#128170;&#127996;


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 24, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Lucas moves but it still doesn't help Lovren isn't aware of what's going on around him. Benteke ended up directly in front of Lovren. 

Zonal or man marking it doesn't matter when the same players are switching off at set pieces time and time again.

Klopp doesnt have a clue  How To defend?? That's a myth.

There was a clear plan on how they were going to defend set pieces, it wasn't Klopp's fault that those  players switched off again. 

It's going to be a massive summer for recruitment
		
Click to expand...

He has had time to replace them so I think it IS Klopps fault he is the manager.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 25, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			He has had time to replace them so I think it IS Klopps fault he is the manager.
		
Click to expand...

He's had 2 real transfer windows, he's brought in Matip and Klavan, Matip has had injuries and Klavan isn't good enough but that's what you get for Â£4m these days. 

He's dealt with Sakho the best way he sees fit and i Believe had Sakho had been sold in the summer we would've signed another CB.

I'd question the owners intent before blaming Klopp this time.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 25, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			He's had 2 real transfer windows, he's brought in Matip and Klavan, Matip has had injuries and Klavan isn't good enough but that's what you get for Â£4m these days. 

He's dealt with Sakho the best way he sees fit and i Believe had Sakho had been sold in the summer we would've signed another CB.

I'd question the owners intent before blaming Klopp this time.
		
Click to expand...

Don't think Klopp is the issue, I think it's time and expectancy levels.

You can see from some of your performances he has a clear vision of what he wants, but obviously needs the squad to match that vision, him or any manager can't do that overnight unless you inherit or pay whatever to get the right players.

Bigger worry will be if you don't get top 4 and he has a big clearout, will he be given time or money to get the right players in.

(Not getting CL Football may lesson your chances of enticing certain players)

Surely after last season though top 5/6 is still good progress and too early to be calling for his head.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 25, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Don't think Klopp is the issue, I think it's time and expectancy levels.

You can see from some of your performances he has a clear vision of what he wants, but obviously needs the squad to match that vision, him or any manager can't do that overnight unless you inherit or pay whatever to get the right players.

Bigger worry will be if you don't get top 4 and he has a big clearout, will he be given time or money to get the right players in.

(Not getting CL Football may lesson your chances of enticing certain players)

Surely after last season though top 5/6 is still good progress and too early to be calling for his head.
		
Click to expand...

Are you sure your not a closet red?? 

The squad needs real quality adding to it, not just young potential.

People can't see the woods for the trees.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 25, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Are you sure your not a closet red?? 

The squad needs real quality adding to it, not just young potential.

People can't see the woods for the trees.
		
Click to expand...

Just being honest mate :thup:
Same as Koeman for me, top 7 for this season is better than I hoped for, problem next season will be him improving on that, I can't see anyone above us collapsing and if he doesn't kick on we'll be back to the Martinez scenario of pressure on the manager if we don't improve season on season.

Without Everton or anyone else spending a small fortune it will be very dificult to break in to the top 6


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 25, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Nice to see Everton U23's won the Premier League 2 title tonight.
Hopefully see a few more of those players moving through to the 1st team.

&#62543;&#62543;&#62543;&#62543;
		
Click to expand...

Unlike other clubs who have junior teams winning trophies year after year we have a clear pathway through to the first team . Every chance some of those players will make it at Everton.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 25, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Unlike other clubs who have junior teams winning trophies year after year we have a clear pathway through to the first team . Every chance some of those players will make it at Everton.
		
Click to expand...

When you think that squad includes Davies, Holgate, Calvert-Lewin etc plus Browning and Galloway away on loan, signs are very good.
Pleased for David Unsworth as well, getting good managerial experience.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 25, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			He's had 2 real transfer windows, he's brought in Matip and Klavan, Matip has had injuries and Klavan isn't good enough but that's what you get for Â£4m these days. 

He's dealt with Sakho the best way he sees fit and i Believe had Sakho had been sold in the summer we would've signed another CB.

I'd question the owners intent before blaming Klopp this time.
		
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It's the same players making the same mistakes all season but apart from Lucas they are first team regulars.
Klopp put all his eggs in one basket last year in the Europa final when this went tits up we could not attract top players I.e. No CL .
The way we are going now I can see the same thing happening again.
Klopp is the Manager if the players don't do as he says for set pieces play some of the reserves who WILL.
Thats why I think he is responsible after all he is the Manager buck stops at the top.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 25, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			It's the same players making the same mistakes all season but apart from Lucas they are first team regulars.
Klopp put all his eggs in one basket last year in the Europa final when this went tits up we could not attract top players I.e. No CL .
The way we are going now I can see the same thing happening again.
Klopp is the Manager if the players don't do as he says for set pieces play some of the reserves who WILL.
Thats why I think he is responsible after all he is the Manager buck stops at the top.
		
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Playing reserves is really going to solve the problem isn't it

Klopp or any other manager cannot be responsible for players switching off/making the wrong decision on the pitch and he can't get rid of them til the summer anyway.

If those players are still there next year making same mistakes then yes Klopp takes the brunt but he also needs to be backed properly by the owners to replace these players. 

The CL isn't the be all and end all. United and Chelsea have proven that.


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## User62651 (Apr 25, 2017)

Isn't it great Newcastle are back up, great club with a great tradition and a great addition to the EPL. Good manager too. Hopefully Cashley will give some more money to Rafa to get them top half of table and re-established in the top flight for the long term.


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## The Evertonian (Apr 25, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Isn't it great Newcastle are back up, great club with a great tradition and a great addition to the EPL. Good manager too. Hopefully Cashley will give some more money to Rafa to get them top half of table and re-established in the top flight for the long term.
		
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But aren't Newcastle a bit of a "yo-yo" club anyway....just par for the course really.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 25, 2017)

Great finish by Hazard.


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## richy (Apr 25, 2017)

Is Conte trolling by saying City can't just buy success? Is he unfamiliar with the recent history of the club he's at?


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 25, 2017)

Chelsea well on the way to another win and a 7 point gap. Asks Spurs the question next time out


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 25, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Playing reserves is really going to solve the problem isn't it

Klopp or any other manager cannot be responsible for players switching off/making the wrong decision on the pitch and he can't get rid of them til the summer anyway.

If those players are still there next year making same mistakes then yes Klopp takes the brunt but he also needs to be backed properly by the owners to replace these players. 

The CL isn't the be all and end all. United and Chelsea have proven that.
		
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I thought he would have some clout in the transfer market but reality is CL attracts top players.
Chealsa and United have money we don't have.
Would Liverpool sanction an 80 million transfer I dought it.
Playing some reserves or youngsters can't be any worse than Can Lucas and Lovren.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 25, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			I thought he would have some clout in the transfer market but reality is CL attracts top players.




			I think he does, I'm not too sure if the owners are bending over backwards to help him
		
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Chealsa and United have money we don't have. 




			I agree but to say it's only CL that attracts top players is delusional. It's a myth.
		
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Would Liverpool sanction an 80 million transfer I dought it.
Playing some reserves or youngsters can't be any worse than Can Lucas and Lovren.
		
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Can't be any worse  than Can Lucas and Lovren? Are you serious? He's played youngsters and it's blatantly obvious they're not quite ready yet. It's been proven in the past that throwing inexperienced youngsters into a struggling side or a side under pressure to succeed  only damages them.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 26, 2017)

Newcastle and West Ham raided this morning as part of a fraud investigation by HMRC.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 26, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Can't be any worse  than Can Lucas and Lovren? Are you serious? He's played youngsters and it's blatantly obvious they're not quite ready yet. It's been proven in the past that throwing inexperienced youngsters into a struggling side or a side under pressure to succeed  only damages them.
		
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We must have a decent defender to replace Lucas at the back he is not a defender.
If we play three at the back the guy in the middle must have some pace .
I disagree with you CL and lots of money attract top players .
The transfer pot must have been explained to Klopp by the owners so he should know how much he's got.
My own opinion is he is waiting to see if we get CL next year to go for top talent that's why missing out last year was a disaster and we could only get the likes of Klavan.
If they are good enough they are old enough do we go all season letting players make the same mistakes costing us games.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 26, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Newcastle and West Ham raided this morning as part of a fraud investigation by HMRC.
		
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I was down in London Sunday and Newcastle Monday and I thought there was something iffy about those Cockneys and Geordies


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## Tashyboy (Apr 26, 2017)

If they are good enough they are old enough do we go all season letting players make the same mistakes costing us games.[/QUOTE]

If it benefits Man City please do &#128513;&#128077;


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## Jensen (Apr 26, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Newcastle and West Ham raided this morning as part of a fraud investigation by HMRC.
		
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Hmm....both clubs been managed by Sam Allardyce &#128516;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 26, 2017)

Joey Barton banned for 18 months and fined Â£30,000 for gambling offences by FA.

Below is his statement:
http://www.joeybarton.com/betting-statement/


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## jp5 (Apr 26, 2017)

Never ending gambling adverts around football, people develop problems. Hardly surprising!


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## ger147 (Apr 26, 2017)

A tad ironic as he advertises a gambling company every time he pulls on his team shirt...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 26, 2017)

jp5 said:



			Never ending gambling adverts around football, people develop problems. Hardly surprising!
		
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He quotes that in his statement, his shirt has a betting company on!


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 26, 2017)

All pro footballers know the rules on gambling, they are hardly hidden. He is not a kid of 18.

Clearly there is a huge amount of hypocrisy relating to sponsorship around football relating to gambling but he broke the rules in a major way and has no excuse. Over 1,200 bets over 10yrs. Nothing accidental about that.


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## Slime (Apr 26, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Joey Barton banned for 18 months and fined Â£30,000 for gambling offences by FA.
		
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As much as I dislike the bloke, it does seem a tad harsh. It's effectively ended his career.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 26, 2017)

Apparently the FA were gonna ban him for 4 years but Barton cashed out for 18 months. 


Couldn't happen to a better person.


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## fundy (Apr 26, 2017)

5 defenders plus coquelin plus xhaka for a game versus Leicester oh and Walcott up top, do me a favour


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 26, 2017)

fundy said:



			5 defenders plus coquelin plus xhaka for a game versus Leicester oh and Walcott up top, do me a favour
		
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You do know that Walcott will score and Arsenal win now?


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## Tashyboy (Apr 26, 2017)

Joey Barton.

The old saying "what comes around goes around" has never been more true.

An odious man who earned a fortune playing average football.


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## fundy (Apr 26, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			You do know that Walcott will score and Arsenal win now?
		
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works for me, doesnt make it right though


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## Kellfire (Apr 26, 2017)

Looked nasty for Sakho, that.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 26, 2017)

Slime said:



			As much as I dislike the bloke, it does seem a tad harsh. It's effectively ended his career.
		
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Is it though as it goes back over ten years. Add in all the other stuff that's happened including the prison sentence and FA charges for violent conduct and it makes it very hard to find any sympathy and to be honest he is a very stark example of a player with huge talent and ability who threw it away and self imploded too often.


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## Kellfire (Apr 26, 2017)

Oh Sanchez. Hahahaha. Worst "dive" of the year yet!


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## sawtooth (Apr 26, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Oh Sanchez. Hahahaha. Worst "dive" of the year yet!
		
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I haven't seen it but I heard it was bad. Got booked for it though which is good to see.


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## fundy (Apr 26, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Oh Sanchez. Hahahaha. Worst "dive" of the year yet!
		
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just seen it, oh dear oh dear. Thats as pitiful as it gets. You want 300k a week to fall about holding your face when you get hit on the shoulder. Enjoy your time at City, Chelsea or wherever will pay you the riculous salary your theatrics are worth


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## fundy (Apr 26, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I haven't seen it but I heard it was bad. Got booked for it though which is good to see.
		
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should be banned for 10 games for it! utter disgrace and Wenger should be condemning it immediately (but wont)

https://twitter.com/EmanDaGoonn/status/857332451047329793/video/1


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 26, 2017)

Spurs grinding a 1-0. Not flowing but enough to get the win. Keeps the title race alive (ish)


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## Kellfire (Apr 26, 2017)

It's the delayed reaction that slayed me. &#128513;


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## sawtooth (Apr 26, 2017)

fundy said:



			should be banned for 10 games for it! utter disgrace and Wenger should be condemning it immediately (but wont)

https://twitter.com/EmanDaGoonn/status/857332451047329793/video/1

Click to expand...

Embarrassing to say the least.


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## fundy (Apr 26, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			It's the delayed reaction that slayed me. &#128513;
		
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its the fact hes stupid enough not to realise thats theres hundreds of cameras on him and hes gonna be exposed for the cheat that he is for me


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 26, 2017)

fundy said:



			its the fact hes stupid enough not to realise thats theres hundreds of cameras on him and hes gonna be exposed for the cheat that he is for me
		
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Rarely has been before and hardly the first time he's done it so can't see him getting exposed now


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## fundy (Apr 26, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Rarely has been before and hardly the first time he's done it *so can't see him getting exposed now*

Click to expand...

you cant see him being exposed for this? should be laughed at by every proper football fan irrelevant of who they support. should be lambasted on match of the day, held up as an example of everything wrong with top flight football on every show and by every journo in football, should be called to point by his manager

sadly we live in a money driven world where Wnger didnt see it and most will brush it under the carpet and it will be forgotten next week

he has no argument for every ref to turn down every decision he appeals on from now on as they know he may well be trying to cheat them again


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 26, 2017)

fundy said:



			you cant see him being exposed for this? should be laughed at by every proper football fan irrelevant of who they support. should be lambasted on match of the day, held up as an example of everything wrong with top flight football on every show and by every journo in football, should be called to point by his manager

sadly we live in a money driven world where Wnger didnt see it and most will brush it under the carpet and it will be forgotten next week

he has no argument for every ref to turn down every decision he appeals on from now on as they know he may well be trying to cheat them again
		
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Of course that should all happen but do you really think it will? Not a hope


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## Region3 (Apr 26, 2017)

fundy said:



			you cant see him being exposed for this? should be laughed at by every proper football fan irrelevant of who they support. should be lambasted on match of the day, held up as an example of everything wrong with top flight football on every show and by every journo in football, should be called to point by his manager

sadly we live in a money driven world where Wnger didnt see it and most will brush it under the carpet and it will be forgotten next week

he has no argument for every ref to turn down every decision he appeals on from now on as they know he may well be trying to cheat them again
		
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I thought it looked wrong when he went down holding his face after fouling Huth a few minutes later as well, but could be wrong as I only saw it once.


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## USER1999 (Apr 27, 2017)

This kind of thing goes on a lot in South American football. Who was the Brazillian player who was hit by a ball in the guts, and went down clutching his face? 

Sanchez = not very bright.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 27, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			This kind of thing goes on a lot in South American football. Who was the Brazillian player who was hit by a ball in the guts, and went down clutching his face? 

Sanchez = not very bright.
		
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Rivaldo was hit in the shin at the world cup against Turkey and did the same.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 27, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Rivaldo was hit in the shin at the world cup against Turkey and did the same.
		
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Perhaps the most shameful bit of acting I have ever seen on a football field. That is what he will be remembered for outside of Brazil. Disgusting.


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## Slime (Apr 27, 2017)

Just seen the Sanchez incident, absolutely shameful, nearly spilled my coffee!


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## fundy (Apr 27, 2017)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39729222

what a shock, Wenger wants to criticise the Leicester player who threw the ball and the ref, not Sanchez. as for sanchez showing pics that he got a fat lip (from another incident) sigh


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## Papas1982 (Apr 27, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Perhaps the most shameful bit of acting I have ever seen on a football field. That is what he will be remembered for outside of Brazil. Disgusting.
		
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Dunno, i remember the overhead kick for barca against utd too. But it will undoubtedly always be brought up during convo about him.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 27, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Perhaps the most shameful bit of acting I have ever seen on a football field. That is what he will be remembered for outside of Brazil. Disgusting.
		
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Have you forgotten Phil Neville's attempt in the Derby a few seasons ago??:rofl:


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 27, 2017)

Ha ha. I had but good point. I am sure you recognise the thin ice you are moving on however as your boys have had many a diver including St Stevie.

 I think what made Rivaldo's so appalling was that it was a deliberate attempt to get another player sent off, the fake injury bore no relation to what happened and it was on the greatest stage of a players career, a World Cup. Cheating is cheating but his was a level above.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 27, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Have you forgotten Phil Neville's attempt in the Derby a few seasons ago??:rofl:
		
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You're obsessed with us! Are you a closet blue? :rofl:


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## Kellfire (Apr 27, 2017)

Steven Taylor being taken out by a sniper when he'd handled on the line was a fairly epic bit of play acting, too.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 27, 2017)

Think van nisltelrooy was the "best" at it. Admitting he'd kick himself so his body would react normally.
Pires kicking opponents and diving was shameful too. It hurts me to acknowledge that one as was against pompey.....


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## USER1999 (Apr 27, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I haven't seen it but I heard it was bad. Got booked for it though which is good to see.
		
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Nope, the booking was for standing too close to the throw in.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 27, 2017)

Expecting stick from Stu_C, but really like this video, the kid is so chilled

https://mobile.twitter.com/lfc/status/857511466223775746


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## Fish (Apr 27, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Nope, the booking was for standing too close to the throw in.
		
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Which apparently he didn't know that rule!! Don't they do football lessons and quizzes at Arsenals training ground, the key is in the word, training &#128540;


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## Stuart_C (Apr 27, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ha ha. I had but good point. I am sure you recognise the thin ice you are moving on however as your boys have had many a diver including St Stevie.

 I think what made Rivaldo's so appalling was that it was a deliberate attempt to get another player sent off, the fake injury bore no relation to what happened and it was on the greatest stage of a players career, a World Cup. Cheating is cheating but his was a level above.
		
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St Stevie and any other Liverpool player has never ever dived or cheated, they were always fouled and I can prove it 


pauldj42 said:



			You're obsessed with us! Are you a closet blue? :rofl:
		
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Not a chance, merely jogging LT's memory. He did say he'd almost forgot :rofl:


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## Paperboy (Apr 27, 2017)

fundy said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39729222

what a shock, Wenger wants to criticise the Leicester player who threw the ball and the ref, not Sanchez. as for sanchez showing pics that he got a fat lip (from another incident) sigh
		
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If you got twitter look at Ben Kay's tweet. About two facial injuries one being Sanchez's fat lip


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## Stuart_C (Apr 27, 2017)

Mourinho killing football again.


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## Junior (Apr 27, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Mourinho killing football again.
		
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We were pants.  Bus well and truly parked.....and we got lucky.  Id have preffered us to have a go at their defense


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## One Planer (Apr 27, 2017)

Aguero would be toss in a bar fight.

Jaysus.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 27, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Mourinho killing football again.
		
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Did you watch the video I posted?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 27, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Did you watch the video I posted?
		
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Sorry mate I got distracted when I was about to reply, yes I did. A feckin wool from Stafford??? How about supporting your own local side :rant:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 27, 2017)

Junior said:



			We were pants.  Bus well and truly parked.....and we got lucky.  Id have preffered us to have a go at their defense
		
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I knew he'd adopt those tactics, so much so I covered the draw, no goalscorer,nil nil, draw/draw, and I had a saver on Yernited just in case.......

With all of that attacking talent in your side it really is a waste. Are you still sure he's producing more than LVG did?


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 27, 2017)

Jose played for a point you may not like it but it worked.
That point may get him in CL before Liverpool 
City did not do enough to win.
Cant understand Aguero coming short then nobody in the box.
Sane and Sterling poor tonight.
Prety poor game really expected more from the Derby.
Fellani what a prat but Aguero would not win a fight in a playground is this clever or cheating as Sanchez has taken some stick for diving I think this is just as bad.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 27, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Jose played for a point you may not like it but it worked.
That point may get him in CL before Liverpool 
City did not do enough to win.
Cant understand Aguero coming short then nobody in the box.
Sane and Sterling poor tonight.
Prety poor game really expected more from the Derby.
Fellani what a prat but Aguero would not win a fight in a playground is this clever or cheating as Sanchez has taken some stick for diving I think this is just as bad.
		
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Or they might miss out on CL by 1pt because of that gutless effort. 

With that squad of players surely they can do better than park the bus. He'd be the first one to complain if any of the other big sides done it to him.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 27, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Or they might miss out on CL by 1pt because of that gutless effort. 

With that squad of players surely they can do better than park the bus. He'd be the first one to complain if any of the other big sides done it to him.
		
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If they miss out by a point. I'm sure there are far more games where they've drawn or lost that would have come of a surprise. It was a shocking game to watch. But it was tactics. He is driven by a desire to succeed and CL in niw the target so he went for the tactics that assist that best. 

Plenty of teams have blown it by going to gung ho. Madrid this weekend could have done with shutting up shop when they equalised for example. Boring doesn't win fans. But it can help with trophies (arsenals 4th place in this case).


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## Stuart_C (Apr 28, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			If they miss out by a point. I'm sure there are far more games where they've drawn or lost that would have come of a surprise. It was a shocking game to watch. But it was tactics. He is driven by a desire to succeed and CL in niw the target so he went for the tactics that assist that best. 

Plenty of teams have blown it by going to gung ho. Madrid this weekend could have done with shutting up shop when they equalised for example. Boring doesn't win fans. But it can help with trophies (arsenals 4th place in this case).
		
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I didn't suggest they went gung ho, but there's a difference between having a go and  that tonight. Like I said if any team done it to him he'd be crying to the media and like lap dogs they'd be hanging onto every last word.

It's a result business I suppose.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 28, 2017)

Hes back.

Well I quite enjoyed that for a derby, form a City point of view, well we had a go.

From a Utd point of view, having seen some of the fantastic football that fergies teams played, I would be gutted watching that. BBC shows the touches they had in the second half. One touch in the City box. Is that the best you can get out of those players.

Kompany is a rock and if Rashford improves he will have learned a lot tonight.

Fellani being banned could be massive for the rags.


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## fundy (Apr 28, 2017)

Paperboy said:



			If you got twitter look at Ben Kay's tweet. About two facial injuries one being Sanchez's fat lip
		
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Saw it earlier


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 28, 2017)

It may not be pretty to watch but Jose got it spot on last night. 
They came away from a game where they were the underdog with a point. 
Now top 4 is in there own hands.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 28, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I didn't suggest they went gung ho, but there's a difference between having a go and  that tonight*. Like I said if any team done it to him he'd be crying to the media* and like lap dogs they'd be hanging onto every last word.

It's a result business I suppose.
		
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I agree about that. He's a hypocrite as are most managers tbh. But he has form. He's happy to put in a performance like that if he thinks it's what's required.


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## Junior (Apr 28, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I knew he'd adopt those tactics, so much so I covered the draw, no goalscorer,nil nil, draw/draw, and I had a saver on Yernited just in case.......

With all of that attacking talent in your side it really is a waste. Are you still sure he's producing more than LVG did?
		
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With all of that attacking talent in your side it really is a waste. Are you still sure he's producing more than LVG did?[/QUOTE]

Yip, most would have had the bore draw.  

 I agree, re the attacking talent in the side.  I'd always prefer us to have a go.  I was hoping for a bit more energy like against Chelsea.  I've been impressed with Young when he has played, but he was probably deemed to 'attacking' for yesterdays match.  

We are a better side under Jose than our previous 2 managers.  No doubt.  Maybe us Utd fans need to accept that Jose will have matches where he is tactically playing for draw........ I think I'd be more accepting of this if we had turned the home draws into wins !!!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 28, 2017)

Junior said:



			Yip, most would have had the bore draw.  

 I agree, re the attacking talent in the side.  I'd always prefer us to have a go.  I was hoping for a bit more energy like against Chelsea.  I've been impressed with Young when he has played, but he was probably deemed to 'attacking' for yesterdays match.  

We are a better side under Jose than our previous 2 managers.  No doubt.  Maybe us Utd fans need to accept that Jose will have matches where he is tactically playing for draw........ I think I'd be more accepting of this if we had turned the home draws into wins !!!
		
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TBF to Jose it is his first season with you and you're looking at 1 Trophy won, possibly European silverware and possibly top 4, with the recent issues since Fergie left I think he's over achieved in his first season and will have you challenging for the title next season.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 28, 2017)

Would I be happy to pay to watch that as a Utd fan, no thanks. Kid yourselves otherwise but that was dreadful considering the team they have. Great post on the BBC website last night, set up to defend, one man up front, long balls up to the one player, play for set pieces and corners. Jose Mourinho or Tony Pullis? Still laughing at that one. Mighty Utd, ha ha ha.


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## Junior (Apr 28, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			TBF to Jose it is his first season with you and you're looking at 1 Trophy won, possibly European silverware and possibly top 4, with the recent issues since Fergie left I think he's over achieved in his first season and will have you challenging for the title next season.
		
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Whoa whoa whoa ..... don't forget the charity shield as well 

I agree he has had a decent first season and should be pushing for the title next season.  We have improved.  He'll be tested if Zlatan leaves as I don't think Martial and Rashford have as many goals in them.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 28, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Lucas moves but it still doesn't help Lovren isn't aware of what's going on around him. Benteke ended up directly in front of Lovren. 

Zonal or man marking it doesn't matter when the same players are switching off at set pieces time and time again.

Klopp doesnt have a clue  How To defend?? That's a myth.

There was a clear plan on how they were going to defend set pieces, it wasn't Klopp's fault that those  players switched off again. 

It's going to be a massive summer for recruitment
		
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Spending money already, Lovren new contract worth Â£100K per week :rofl:


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## Crazyface (Apr 28, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Would I be happy to pay to watch that as a Utd fan, no thanks. Kid yourselves otherwise but that was dreadful considering the team they have. Great post on the BBC website last night, set up to defend, one man up front, long balls up to the one player, play for set pieces and corners. Jose Mourinho or Tony Pullis? Still laughing at that one. Mighty Utd, ha ha ha.
		
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Dreadful wasn't it???? And all that diving all over the place, OMG I couldn't, watch that every week! And Sane????? What a girl. pulled out of 50/50 challenges, in fact most of them did. Utter garbage. That was the first full game I've watched in years. I think I give it a few more before I watch another. You can send all them useless foreign players home. If that what they call football nowadays you can keep it. Awful.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 28, 2017)

Crazyface said:



			Dreadful wasn't it???? And all that diving all over the place, OMG I couldn't, watch that every week! And Sane????? What a girl. pulled out of 50/50 challenges, in fact most of them did. Utter garbage. That was the first full game I've watched in years. I think I give it a few more before I watch another. You can send all them useless foreign players home. If that what they call football nowadays you can keep it. Awful.
		
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On the phone to a pal this morning and he said he has never seen as many rammel foreign footballers as he has done this year. He reckons they are earning a fortune and would not get a game in italy. Spain. Germany etc


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## Stuart_C (Apr 28, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Spending money already, Lovren new contract worth Â£100K per week :rofl:
		
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Investment Group protecting their "investment" shocker.

Buy a replacement for Â£30m+ or keep him for Â£1m ?? Yeah alright.


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## pbrown7582 (Apr 28, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Jose played for a point you may not like it but it worked.
That point may get him in CL before Liverpool 
City did not do enough to win.
Cant understand Aguero coming short then nobody in the box.
Sane and Sterling poor tonight.
Prety poor game really expected more from the Derby.
Fellani what a prat but Aguero would not win a fight in a playground is this clever or cheating as Sanchez has taken some stick for diving I think this is just as bad.
		
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:thup:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 28, 2017)

I hope Mourinho is as vocal next time his players exaggerate as he is now. I won't hold my breath though.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 28, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Spending money already, Lovren new contract worth Â£100K per week :rofl:
		
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Take a nought of that and that would be generous.
He has had a decent season so far but makes to many silly errors.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 28, 2017)

Jurgen Klopp's commitment to banter continues to be unparalleled, as Dejan Lovren signs a new 4-year, Â£100k-a-week deal at Liverpool.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 28, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Or they might miss out on CL by 1pt because of that gutless effort. 

With that squad of players surely they can do better than park the bus. He'd be the first one to complain if any of the other big sides done it to him.
		
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The thing is though his players followed his orders.
Thats why none of the players are to blame. Fellani excepted.
Liverpool could learn a lot from this game , how to defend properly.
For Jose this is a great result as this was the plan.
Fans might not like it but that's the way he is.


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## User62651 (Apr 28, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			The thing is though his players followed his orders.
Thats why none of the players are to blame. Fellani excepted.
Liverpool could learn a lot from this game , how to defend properly.
For Jose this is a great result as this was the plan.
Fans might not like it but that's the way he is.
		
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I think he's expected to be more attack minded as ManU coach generally but given the injury list and top 4 opportunity there to aim for after this good run of results with only 4 or 5 games left he is absolutely right to play for a point at Etihad, that is a good result for any EPL team and was good management by Jose imo. ECL qualification would be a great effort for Jose and pretty lucrative in both adding revenue but also being able to recruit top players over the summer.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 28, 2017)

No question, it was down to Jose. That is how he plays. As I posted earlier, him and Tony Pullis are singing from the same hymn sheet. Yaawwwnnnnnn.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 28, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			I think he's expected to be more attack minded as ManU coach generally but given the injury list and top 4 opportunity there to aim for after this good run of results with only 4 or 5 games left he is absolutely right to play for a point at Etihad, that is a good result for any EPL team and was good management by Jose imo. ECL qualification would be a great effort for Jose and pretty lucrative in both adding revenue but also being able to recruit top players over the summer.
		
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My point exactly.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 28, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No question, it was down to Jose. That is how he plays. As I posted earlier, him and Tony Pullis are singing from the same hymn sheet. Yaawwwnnnnnn.
		
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Bit unfair on Tony.


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## Junior (Apr 28, 2017)

A point away at the Emptyhad is a good result if we had not have been behind 'pushing' for a top 4 place.  I like the fact we are organised and can keep a clean sheet (just) against a good attacking side like City.  But, we need to be able to switch it up and be creative and attacking to beat the teams that we have drawn against at home.  We are improving and are nearly there, just not quite.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 28, 2017)

Junior said:



			A point away at the Emptyhad is a good result if we had not have been behind 'pushing' for a top 4 place.  I like the fact we are organised and can keep a clean sheet (just) against a good attacking side like City.  But, we need to be able to switch it up and be creative and attacking to beat the teams that we have drawn against at home.  We are improving and are nearly there, just not quite.
		
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That has me grinin from ear to ear. it tells me that the days are long gone for a City fan when going to a derby game thinking how many will we get dicked by. To a Utd fan saying a point is a good result for Utd.
That aside I do understand Utd being happy at getting a point, but if City had scored, what was Utds plan B to create a chance never mind score.
Lovely to see shrek in his last derby game running up and down the wrong side of the touch line on 200k plus a week.
Again listening to Talksport on the way home and it is a diabolical show, switched off and put Smooth FM on.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 28, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Bit unfair on Tony.
		
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Fair point. Sorry Tone &#128513;


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## Junior (Apr 28, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			That has me grinin from ear to ear. it tells me that the days are long gone for a City fan when going to a derby game thinking how many will we get dicked by. To a Utd fan saying a point is a good result for Utd.
That aside I do understand Utd being happy at getting a point, but if City had scored, what was Utds plan B to create a chance never mind score.
Lovely to see shrek in his last derby game running up and down the wrong side of the touch line on 200k plus a week.
Again listening to Talksport on the way home and it is a diabolical show, switched off and put Smooth FM on.
		
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Times have changed Tashy.  Your bang on re our plan 'b'.  Without Mata we rely very heavily on  Mkitaryan, ..... we are not very creative.  That's why Young has impressed me the last couple of games.  At least he has a go.


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## BristolMike (Apr 28, 2017)

Tbh united were playing with 10 men the whole game. I don't think Fellaini was in the right position even once during the game. He vacates the midfield all the time leaving us exposed as other players try and cover the space/players he leaves. He is never united standard.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 29, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			Tbh united were playing with 10 men the whole game. I don't think Fellaini was in the right position even once during the game. He vacates the midfield all the time leaving us exposed as other players try and cover the space/players he leaves. He is never united standard.
		
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Isn't that Jose though he is forced onto the left wing for the long ball from the keeper.


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## BristolMike (Apr 29, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Isn't that Jose though he is forced onto the left wing for the long ball from the keeper.
		
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No not at all, it's because he has no positional sense what so ever. I'm there almost every week and he just bumbles around not really knowing what to do. When he's given the task of staying up front and winning headers he's okay, but any task other than that and he's lost. The old ex players who are still involved with the club all say he's in the team because he's a yes man and follows orders in training and never questions Jose. he can't pass, can't tackle and can't shoot though so he shouldn't ever be in that first team


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 29, 2017)

MOTD should be good tonight &#128564;


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## Papas1982 (Apr 29, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			No not at all, it's because he has no positional sense what so ever. I'm there almost every week and he just bumbles around not really knowing what to do. When he's given the task of staying up front and winning headers he's okay, but any task other than that and he's lost. The old ex players who are still involved with the club all say he's in the team because he's a yes man and follows orders in training and never questions Jose. he can't pass, can't tackle and can't shoot though so he shouldn't ever be in that first team
		
Click to expand...

I always thought his purchase was a weird one. His best games at Everton were when he was effectively lumped up to upfront. He got a fair amount of goals and fair play to him and them. But at Utd he was never gonna start as a striker and he's a liability in midfield.


----------



## BristolMike (Apr 29, 2017)

Limited is pretty generous. I back the players we have, but when you have a midfielder that consistency miss places easy 5 yard passes being kept, and players like Morgan and Bastien sold it makes no sense. 

He he must be able to suck a golf ball through a straw haha


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## Stuart_C (Apr 29, 2017)

MOTD is lining up to be a cracker with today's results.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 29, 2017)

Sunderland gone and will Moyes go too? Can't see him surviving and I'd imagine the chairman will look for a clean slate. Clearly not had what it takes to make a change and a difference


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## Junior (Apr 29, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			MOTD is lining up to be a cracker with today's results.
		
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:rofl: Not one to be sky plus'd


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## BristolMike (Apr 29, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sunderland gone and will Moyes go too? Can't see him surviving and I'd imagine the chairman will look for a clean slate. Clearly not had what it takes to make a change and a difference
		
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I don't think many people could have kept that Sunderland team up tbh. They didn't invest any money, aging team and no real creativity. The keeper will be off now too. 

Cant imagine it being a job many would want now if Moyes goes


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## Hobbit (Apr 29, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			MOTD is lining up to be a cracker with today's results.
		
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Junior said:



			:rofl: Not one to be sky plus'd
		
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Oh but it is. I live for days like this for Sunderland:rofl:sadly, the mighty Boro will be joining them shortly. But another silver lining is we won't have to play the vultures... sorry, Magpies...


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 29, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			I don't think many people could have kept that Sunderland team up tbh. They didn't invest any money, aging team and no real creativity. The keeper will be off now too. 

Cant imagine it being a job many would want now if Moyes goes
		
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There's always a manager looking for a job so someone will take it. I actually think Moyes should stay and rebuild, get rid of the deadwood. Sunderland have been on the slide for years and escaped somehow, last minute, for the last few years. He's a good manager and should be left to do a job. He's had a dud hand this season.

They could actually do worse than get onto Newcastle and buy some of their players who were bought to get them promoted and will now be moved on. No house move required, makes sense for all parties.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 29, 2017)

Benteke flat track bully &#128514;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2017)

Looking forward to the match today, Chelsea far and above the best team we've faced this season and rightly gave us a hammering at the Bridge.
Could be wrong, but got a sneaky feeling we might just get something out of todays game.


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## Fish (Apr 30, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Looking forward to the match today, Chelsea far and above the best team we've faced this season and rightly gave us a hammering at the Bridge.
Could be wrong, but got a sneaky feeling we might just get something out of todays game.
		
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Yeah, a few more bookings and a fat lip &#128540;


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## sawtooth (Apr 30, 2017)

100% dive Rashford


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## One Planer (Apr 30, 2017)

I see Maureens influence on Rashford is paying off.

That's a shocking Dive.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2017)

Shocking decision from the Yernited ref.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 30, 2017)

One Planer said:



			I see Maureens influence on Rashford is paying off.

That's a shocking Dive.
		
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Shocking dive. Pretty sire players did it in the prem before Jose arrived....


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## jp5 (Apr 30, 2017)

3 match retrospective bans would sort that out!


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## One Planer (Apr 30, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Shocking dive. Pretty sire players did it in the prem before Jose arrived....
		
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Pretty sure Rashford wasn't throwing himself around like that under Van Gaal.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 30, 2017)

Fish said:



			Yeah, a few more bookings and a fat lip &#128540;
		
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&#128514;&#128514; 

If Chelsea win today that's the title won.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2017)

jp5 said:



			3 match retrospective bans would sort that out!
		
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Taking  points off teams would be the only solution to this problem imo.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2017)

I can't see how the ref can give it though, he's definitely guessed.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2017)

Fish said:



			Yeah, a few more bookings and a fat lip &#128540;
		
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For Costa and Hazard :whoo:

My biggest worry is the same Chelsea team we played in the 5-0 drubbing turn up!


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## One Planer (Apr 30, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I can't see how the ref can give it though, he's definitely guessed.
		
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100%


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 30, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Taking  points off teams would be the only solution to this problem imo.
		
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Trouble is who decides if it's a dive or not. 
If there's contact is it a dive?


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## sawtooth (Apr 30, 2017)

I can see the ref giving Swansea something back now in the 2nd half, normally is the way after such a clanger.Fancy guessing on such an important decision affecting both ends of the table.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 30, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Pretty sure Rashford wasn't throwing himself around like that under Van Gaal.
		
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I cant recall all of his games last year. So I can't categorically deny it. But imo if a player is gonna dive its something in them. Not their coach. Some coaches may be more honest in their opinion about it being part of the game, but Players don't stop or start diving dependant on a manager.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Trouble is who decides if it's a dive or not. 
If there's contact is it a dive?
		
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A panel of ex players, refs and managers. Contact doesn't mean it's a foul. Football is a contact sport.

Would players take a  gamble on a dive if they know it could cost them 3pts?


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## Papas1982 (Apr 30, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Taking  points off teams would be the only solution to this problem imo.
		
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Biggest issue is proof. UEFA couldn't even hold up a ban for diving when arsenal appelaed it. Not sure the prem has the clout to take on a big Orem teams lawyers.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Biggest issue is proof. UEFA couldn't even hold up a ban for diving when arsenal appelaed it. Not sure the prem has the clout to take on a big Orem teams lawyers.
		
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I agree, but either way it needs sorting out.


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## Fish (Apr 30, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Taking  points off teams would be the only solution to this problem imo.
		
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If the team has benefitted then the team should be penalised.  So in this case, if it went to a panel and was without doubt ruled as a dive or simulation, in that, Rashford put his foot into the player to be able to go to ground under his own recognisance, and it stayed at 1-nil, then Utd have those 3 points removed plus an additional 1. 

That'll start sorting it out. 

As you say, that decision could go a long way towards Utd getting CL whilst sending Swansea down!


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## Papas1982 (Apr 30, 2017)

Fish said:



			If the team has benefitted then the team should be penalised.  So in this case, if it went to a panel and was without doubt ruled as a dive or simulation, in that, Rashford put his foot into the player to be able to go to ground under his own recognisance, and it stayed at 1-nil, then Utd have those 3 points removed plus an additional 1. 

That'll start sorting it out. 

As you say, that decision could go a long way towards Utd getting CL whilst sending Swansea down!
		
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What if Utd were 5 up? Or if they win 5 nil and the incident was one minute in?

imo far too many what ifs for points to be agreed to as a sanction. Add to that the amount of penalties that are debated. I think this one is clear.  It many others can be clear to all but a few. 

A heavy fine and ban to players should be the start with a totting up system for all disciplinary misdemeanours that would incur a ban.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 30, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			A panel of ex players, refs and managers. Contact doesn't mean it's a foul. Football is a contact sport.

Would players take a  gamble on a dive if they know it could cost them 3pts?
		
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I agree with what you're saying,but we even see ex players/pundits disagreeing over if it's a foul or dive.


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## davemc1 (Apr 30, 2017)

that'll do for us :thup:


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## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			that'll do for us :thup:
		
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Only if  we win though.


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## Slime (Apr 30, 2017)

United were pathetic today and more defensive injuries too!
Very depressing .


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## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			I agree with what you're saying,but we even see ex players/pundits disagreeing over if it's a foul or dive.
		
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The pictures are conclusive.


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## Fish (Apr 30, 2017)

Liverpool riding their luck off the back of poor results from other teams around them. 

But in saying that, I'm pleased Swansea equalised and got the draw, could be a huge away point that. 

However, those 2 dropped points at home for Utd could cost them dearly.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2017)

Decent first half, although Chelsea look more than capable of putting one move together and tesring us apart.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 30, 2017)

How was that a yellow card for Costa?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2017)

What a goal!


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## Fish (Apr 30, 2017)

Take a bow &#128077;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2017)

Couple of odd bookings in this game!


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## Fish (Apr 30, 2017)

That's shocking from the defending wall and not too clever by the keeper, but thanks, that'll do nicely &#128077;


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## Fish (Apr 30, 2017)

The mighty Boro strike 2 &#128563;&#128540;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2017)

Fish said:



			That's shocking from the defending wall and not too clever by the keeper, but thanks, that'll do nicely &#128077;
		
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They all count  shocking defending!


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## Fish (Apr 30, 2017)

Cut 'em open #SuperSubs &#128079;&#128079;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2017)

Pleased we managed to more than hold our own until Pedro's superb strike.

That's the level and the quality of squad we need to aspire to.

Worthy League champions.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 30, 2017)

City,Utd,Arsenal & Liverpool really have been poor this season.


----------



## Tarkus1212 (Apr 30, 2017)

Huge opportunity for Arsenal today after the earlier results.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 30, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Pleased we managed to more than hold our own until Pedro's superb strike.

That's the level and the quality of squad we need to aspire to.

Worthy League champions.
		
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Steklenbergs just written off his future for next year at Goodison. Shocking on the second goal. Pretty even until the first goal and then Chelsea just picked us off. Class team. 

Happy with the Everton display, we gave it a go and went toe to toe for a while. Where we are in the league there was no point in parking the bus and boring the fans.

7th is about right, good progress from last year. The next step is going to be hard but the signs are positive.


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## Slime (Apr 30, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			City,Utd,Arsenal & Liverpool really have been poor this season.
		
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I don't think any of them have even been as good as that!
'Poor' is paying them a compliment.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 30, 2017)

How are Tottenham not 2-0 up?


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## Papas1982 (Apr 30, 2017)

Well it's nit just Rashford that's been taught by Mourinho......


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How are Tottenham not 2-0 up?
		
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They are :rofl:


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## Tarkus1212 (Apr 30, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			They are :rofl:
		
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and deservedly so, I can't believe how poor Arsenal are. Can't help thinking that the players should spend less time getting tattoos and fancy haircuts and more time practising the basics.


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## Tarkus1212 (Apr 30, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Well it's nit just Rashford that's been taught by Mourinho......
		
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Definite penalty for me


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## anotherdouble (Apr 30, 2017)

Tarkus1212 said:



			Definite penalty for me
		
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They should of had a 2nd but Sanchez seemed to forget in a split second which part of his body he hit the ball with


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## Slime (Apr 30, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			City,Utd,Arsenal & Liverpool really have been poor this season.
		
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United had a shocker earlier on today, and yet City and Arsenal are completely letting them off the hook and I hope Liverpool follow suit tomorrow.
Does no team want 4th place?


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## anotherdouble (Apr 30, 2017)

Stu C get watching that fan TV tonight fam it should be another good one


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## sawtooth (Apr 30, 2017)

Well done Spurs well and truly the best side today and you can see why they are still in the title race.

Arguably our hardest game left in the league so we need to pick ourselves up and go again. Probably need 5 wins from 5 to stand a chance of top 4.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Stu C get watching that fan TV tonight fam it should be another good one
		
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I hear you blud &#128074;


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## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2017)

Did Lukaku play today?


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## Jensen (Apr 30, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Well done Spurs well and truly the best side today and you can see why they are still in the title race.

4.
		
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All credit to you sawtooth, must have been hard to admit. Sadly I don't think we will win the league, Chelsea are too good to slip up.

Sorry, gotta say it.....Arsne Wenger we want you to stay &#128077;


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## Old Skier (Apr 30, 2017)

Don't normal like to call it till the maths make it impossible but it looks like Chelsea are going to match the giddy heights of Sunderland with the amount of England top league titles.

Congrats


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## sawtooth (Apr 30, 2017)

Jensen said:



			All credit to you sawtooth, must have been hard to admit. Sadly I don't think we will win the league, Chelsea are too good to slip up.

Sorry, gotta say it.....*Arsne Wenger we want you to stay* &#128077;
		
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Me too. :thup:


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## Jensen (Apr 30, 2017)

I tip my hat to you fella  &#128077;


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## fundy (Apr 30, 2017)

Jensen said:



			I tip my hat to you fella  &#128077;
		
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the other arsenal fans dont


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## Papas1982 (Apr 30, 2017)

Tarkus1212 said:



			Definite penalty for me
		
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After 19 replays I can see a case for it. BUT the action of kicking his league into the defender (doing a pires), is above and beyond imo and needs stamping out.


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## Slime (Apr 30, 2017)

It was a blatant dive and a defo penalty.
Kane should be embarrased.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I hope Mourinho is as vocal next time his players exaggerate as he is now. I won't hold my breath though.
		
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How convenient Mourinho didn't see the Rashford dive.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2017)

Slime said:



			It was a blatant dive and a defo penalty.
Kane should be embarrased.
		
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Not as bad as Rashford's ?


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 30, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Did Lukaku play today?
		
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He didn't want to injure himself and cost Everton a fortune in his transfer fee &#128513;. Anyway, as you keep saying he is a flat track bully, he was never going to turn up today.

Mind, you could do with him tomorrow against Watford. Just the sort of team that will turn you bunch of softies over &#128514;


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## Imurg (May 1, 2017)

Just been watching the 2 disputed penalties on SSN.....
Why is Football, the whole game, not completely embarrassed by what is going on..?
It's been going on for years and nothing has been done to stop it.
The Governing body are seemingly ok with it as nothing ever gets done.
People moan, others don't see it - it makes the game an embarrassment...
The whole of football should be ashamed to their bones that this is still happening.
I'm getting closer to not giving a Flyer about football because EVERYONE cheats....


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## Stuart_C (May 1, 2017)

City's pen was a disgrace, no grey area there neither, these type of incidents where it's clear cheating has took place retrospective punishment like in Scotland should definitely be introduced here. 

Either way the authorities need to do something about it.


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## Stuart_C (May 1, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He didn't want to injure himself and cost Everton a fortune in his transfer fee &#128513;. Anyway, as you keep saying he is a flat track bully, he was never going to turn up today.

Mind, you could do with him tomorrow against Watford. Just the sort of team that will turn you bunch of softies over &#128514;
		
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I only asked if he played 

I can't think of another  "world class striker"  who never turns up against the big boys.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 1, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I only asked if he played 

I can't think of another  "world class striker"  who never turns up against the big boys.
		
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Can't think of a big team he hasn't scored against in his career 
Also can't think of another striker who scores in every game he plays 
You're still obsessing over him though :rofl:


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## The Evertonian (May 1, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I only asked if he played 

I can't think of another  "world class striker"  who never turns up against the big boys.
		
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What's with this "world class" tag? 

The lad is only 23 and has the potential to become a top striker. Why are you so down on him?


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 1, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			What's with this "world class" tag? 

The lad is only 23 and has the potential to become a top striker. Why are you so down on him?
		
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He's obsessed mate, I think he's a closet blue :rofl:


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## The Evertonian (May 1, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			He's obsessed mate, I think he's a closet blue :rofl:
		
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Considering how irrelevant the "Daytripers" will have you believe we are to them, they don't half bang on about us an awful lot.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 1, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			Considering how irrelevant the "Daytripers" will have you believe we are to them, they don't half bang on about us an awful lot.
		
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It deflects from their own issues.


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## Papas1982 (May 1, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			City's pen was a disgrace, no grey area there neither, these type of incidents where it's clear cheating has took place retrospective punishment like in Scotland should definitely be introduced here. 

Either way the authorities need to do something about it.
		
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I agree something needs to be done. I didn't realise about the retro action in Scotland until this weekend. I was watching the build up to the old firm and saw they downgraded a red to a yellow for a Celtic player. Unfortunately everyone and their dog agreed it was a Defo red in the first place. I think that big clubs would still get their fair share of dubious decisions whatever ruling is made.


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## Stuart_C (May 1, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Can't think of a big team he hasn't scored against in his career 
Also can't think of another striker who scores in every game he plays 
You're still obsessing over him though :rofl:
		
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I never seen the game, I've only seen the highlights on MOTD and I didn't see him on the field. 

Then I realised who the opponents where and he must've done his Houdini trick 

Definitely not obsessed just conscious :ears:


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## Stuart_C (May 1, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			What's with this "world class" tag? 

The lad is only 23 and has the potential to become a top striker. Why are you so down on him?
		
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 I'm only repeating what I'm reading and hearing.  Any footballer that is "valued at Â£70-100m" must be world class? 

I'm not down on him, I just have a view that he never turns up against the big boys, goes missing, and isn't as good as he's made out to be. I'm not letting my dislike of them cloud my judgement.



pauldj42 said:



			He's obsessed mate, I think he's a closet blue :rofl:
		
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You'd know all about being obsessed wouldn't yer  :ears:



The Evertonian said:



			Considering how irrelevant the "Daytripers" will have you believe we are to them, they don't half bang on about us an awful lot.
		
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Don't be getting excited dear :thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 1, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm only repeating what I'm reading and hearing.  Any footballer that is "valued at Â£70-100m" must be world class? 

I'm not down on him, I just have a view that he never turns up against the big boys, goes missing, and isn't as good as he's made out to be. I'm not letting my dislike of them cloud my judgement.



You'd know all about being obsessed wouldn't yer  :ears:



Don't be getting excited dear :thup:
		
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Which big team has he failed to score against in his career?


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## Junior (May 1, 2017)

Imurg said:



			Just been watching the 2 disputed penalties on SSN.....
Why is Football, the whole game, not completely embarrassed by what is going on..?
It's been going on for years and nothing has been done to stop it.
The Governing body are seemingly ok with it as nothing ever gets done.
People moan, others don't see it - it makes the game an embarrassment...
The whole of football should be ashamed to their bones that this is still happening.
I'm getting closer to not giving a Flyer about football because EVERYONE cheats....
		
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:thup:    Good post Ian.


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## Junior (May 1, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			How convenient Mourinho didn't see the Rashford dive.
		
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Managers never do.  Better say nothing than risk a media backlash.  Diving is a disgrace across the world.  All teams cheat and FIFA turn a blind eye.


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## Imurg (May 1, 2017)

Junior said:



			Managers never do.  Better say nothing than risk a media backlash.  Diving is a disgrace across the world.  All teams cheat and FIFA turn a blind eye.
		
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To be fair, Jose was most of the way to the tunnel when it happened...&#128077;&#128514;


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## guest100718 (May 1, 2017)

Looking at the table, its going to be very close finish for 3rd and 4th.. Man city should be OK, you'd think LFC would be favourite fo the other CL spot, but they have been poor against lower half teams and thats all they have left to play.


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## Stuart_C (May 1, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Which big team has he failed to score against in his career?
		
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It's not just about scoring goals, it's the all round performance's.

I'm talking this season but I Don't know, tell me?


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## Hobbit (May 1, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			City's pen was a disgrace, no grey area there neither, these type of incidents where it's clear cheating has took place retrospective punishment like in Scotland should definitely be introduced here. 

Either way the authorities need to do something about it.
		
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Boro needed a win to stand even a slim chance of staying up... doubt it will make much difference, but bad decisions like that can ruin clubs for years. Whether its missing out on a CL spot or being relegated it costs clubs millions.


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## Pin-seeker (May 1, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			Looking at the table, its going to be very close finish for 3rd and 4th.. Man city should be OK, you'd think LFC would be favourite fo the other CL spot, but they have been poor against lower half teams and thats all they have left to play.
		
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I can't see the top for changing now. 
Maybe City & Liverpool could swap places.


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## guest100718 (May 1, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			I can't see the top for changing now. 
Maybe City & Liverpool could swap places.
		
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Yeah probably. Manu have the Europa cup to deal with too.


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## jp5 (May 1, 2017)

It's now May and still no word from Wenger on his future, which we were told be would be made annouced "shortly" in March.

It's become too much about one person at the club, and that isn't healthy for any situation in life.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 1, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			It's not just about scoring goals, it's the all round performance's.

I'm talking this season but I Don't know, tell me?
		
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Your point falls rather flat, you're trying to criticise the PL current leading goalscorer for not scoring more :thup:


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## anotherdouble (May 1, 2017)

jp5 said:



			It's now May and still no word from Wenger on his future, which we were told be would be made annouced "shortly" in March.

It's become too much about one person at the club, and that isn't healthy for any situation in life.
		
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I honestly think the reason nothing has been said is because he is staying and he doesn't want any.backlash whilst still playing matches especially now with cup final approaching


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## The Evertonian (May 1, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm only repeating what I'm reading and hearing.  Any footballer that is "valued at Â£70-100m" must be world class? 


I'm not down on him, I just have a view that he never turns up against the big boys, goes missing, and isn't as good as he's made out to be. I'm not letting my dislike of them cloud my judgement.



Don't be getting excited dear :thup:
		
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He's definitely twice as good as Andy Carol. ðŸ˜˜


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## Lord Tyrion (May 1, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			He's obsessed mate, I think he's a closet blue :rofl:
		
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It's because Stu knows that with him in their team this could have been "their year". He scores against all the teams, and more, that his lads can't score against&#128514;. It's envy, ha ha.


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## Fish (May 1, 2017)

jp5 said:



			It's now May and still no word from Wenger on his future, which we were told be would be made annouced "shortly" in March.

It's become too much about one person at the club, and that isn't healthy for any situation in life.
		
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He's staying mate, there's no way he's going to walk away leaving you and finishing in 6th, he'll want to leave on better terms imo. 

If that happens it will be very interesting to see who stays and who goes, voluntarily or pushed!

Especially players like Ozil who have said on record he'll go if Wenger goes, so by the same token he'll stay if Arsene stays, which going by his last passenger outing, will be detrimental to the future imo. 

A big clear out from the bottom to the top is required and with some good signings and assurances you just might hang on to Sanchez, if not your DOOMED, doomed I tell thee &#128540;&#128514;


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## Lord Tyrion (May 1, 2017)

Tottenham fans were singing that they wanted Wenger to stay. Other top PL clubs will be thinking the same. That says it all to me. With Wenger in charge still Arsenal will remain a nearly team but non threatening. The fact that he is dictating to the board says how weak they must be imo.


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## clubchamp98 (May 1, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I never seen the game, I've only seen the highlights on MOTD and I didn't see him on the field. 

Then I realised who the opponents where and he must've done his Houdini trick 

Definitely not obsessed just conscious :ears:
		
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Danny Murphy got it right for me.
He scores goals against lower teams because he gets more service as the rest of his team play with more space.
Against the top teams he gets less chances as the opposition gives his team mates less time and space.
Murphy highlighted this very well on motd last night.


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## sawtooth (May 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			He's staying mate, there's no way he's going to walk away leaving you and finishing in 6th, he'll want to leave on better terms imo. 

If that happens it will be very interesting to see who stays and who goes, voluntarily or pushed!

Especially players like Ozil who have said on record he'll go if Wenger goes, so by the same token he'll stay if Arsene stays, which going by his last passenger outing, will be detrimental to the future imo. 

A big clear out from the bottom to the top is required and with some good signings and assurances you just might hang on to Sanchez, if not your DOOMED, doomed I tell thee &#128540;&#128514;
		
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I wouldn't be surprised if Sanchez and Ozil left in the Summer. One or both of those guys are responsible for unrest at the club and the truth will come out one day when Wenger is at liberty to speak.

No player is bigger than the club and if Ferguson or Mourinho would have been at the club then we would have known all about it by now. Wenger doesn't work that way and will ease the player(s) quietly out when the time is right.

Besides, outing someone like Sanchez or Ozil now for being disruptive influences will affect sell on values. This is how I see it anyhow, IMO a lot going on behind the scenes that we are not privy to.


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## jp5 (May 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			Especially players like Ozil who have said on record he'll go if Wenger goes, so by the same token he'll stay if Arsene stays, which going by his last passenger outing, will be detrimental to the future imo
		
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Ozil and Wenger off in the summer would be the ideal scenario.

Not seen a lazier player in an Arsenal shirt than Ozil, wouldn't get away with it under Ferguson or Mourinho.


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## Fish (May 1, 2017)

If there's any unrest from Sanchez I think it's born out of frustration.  

Fellow players are clearly not pulling their weight and are stealing a living imo. 

So, I applaud him if he is displaying a disgruntled attitude because its obvious to see that he alone has and displays a lot of passion and desire, far more than anyone else in the team/squad in most if not all matches. 

So if you had a choice to lose 1 out of the 2, would it be Sanchez for being dustruptive because he wants to win and compete all the time or Ozil who's not disruptive but  just  clocks in out when it pleases him?  Who could you build around more successfully? 

Ask the top 4 clubs who'd they take from yours, and I'd only take Sanchez.


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## sawtooth (May 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			If there's any unrest from Sanchez I think it's born out of frustration.  

Fellow players are clearly not pulling their weight and are stealing a living imo. 

So, I applaud him if he is displaying a disgruntled attitude because its obvious to see that he alone has and displays a lot of passion and desire, far more than anyone else in the team/squad in most if not all matches. 

So if you had a choice to lose 1 out of the 2, would it be Sanchez for being dustruptive because he wants to win and compete all the time or Ozil who's not disruptive but  just  clocks in out when it pleases him?  Who could you build around more successfully? 

Ask the top 4 clubs who'd they take from yours, and I'd only take Sanchez.
		
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On the face of it yes Sanchez but he may come with baggage. He might look like a trier on the pitch but if he sulks, digs out fellow team mates , lays down the rules to the boss then is he such a good buy after all?

It's all supposition but it will all come out in the wash one day what is really going on at the club behind the scenes.


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## fundy (May 1, 2017)

jp5 said:



			It's now May and still no word from Wenger on his future, which we were told be would be made annouced "shortly" in March.

It's become too much about one person at the club, and that isn't healthy for any situation in life.
		
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wont hear anything until after the cup final, no way he announces anything before then sadly


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## Pin-seeker (May 1, 2017)

jp5 said:



			Ozil and Wenger off in the summer would be the ideal scenario.

Not seen a lazier player in an Arsenal shirt than Ozil, wouldn't get away with it under Ferguson or Mourinho.
		
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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.te...-furious-dressing-room-row-jose-mourinho/amp/

Perhaps Wenger needs to grow a pair.


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## Fish (May 1, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.te...-furious-dressing-room-row-jose-mourinho/amp/

Perhaps Wenger needs to grow a pair.
		
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Well a leopard never changes his spots, as they say. 

Just the same with various comments from managers that had Shaw as a player, they all can't be wrong. 

Both lazy players stealing a living.


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## Pin-seeker (May 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			Well a leopard never changes his spots, as they say. 

Just the same with various comments from managers that had Shaw as a player, they all can't be wrong. 

Both lazy players stealing a living.
		
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Tbh I use to really rate Ozil,but now he's just bone idle. 
Why Arsenal want to give him a new improved contract is beyond me.


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## Pin-seeker (May 1, 2017)

And finally a player booked for diving. 
Embarrassing from Lucas.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 1, 2017)

Great bit of skill, great goal


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## Pin-seeker (May 1, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Great bit of skill, great goal
		
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Looked like a miss hit to me &#128513;


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## Stuart_C (May 1, 2017)

Lucas has been watching yernited and city 

Embarrassing from Lucas Klopp needs to get a grip of that.


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## Rlburnside (May 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			If there's any unrest from Sanchez I think it's born out of frustration.  

Fellow players are clearly not pulling their weight and are stealing a living imo. 

So, I applaud him if he is displaying a disgruntled attitude because its obvious to see that he alone has and displays a lot of passion and desire, far more than anyone else in the team/squad in most if not all matches. 

So if you had a choice to lose 1 out of the 2, would it be Sanchez for being dustruptive because he wants to win and compete all the time or Ozil who's not disruptive but  just  clocks in out when it pleases him?  Who could you build around more successfully? 

Ask the top 4 clubs who'd they take from yours, and I'd only take Sanchez.
		
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Ozil has clocked  in and out when it pleases him this season but who's to say he might be the same as Hazard was for you ,lazy and and not trying for the team and the next season be brilliant.:thup:


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## Pin-seeker (May 1, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Lucas has been watching yernited and city 

Embarrassing from Lucas Klopp needs to get a grip of that.
		
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After all the criticism the players got for doing it yesterday for a player to do it today just shows that they don't care. 
It really is just part of the modern game. 
Sad.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 1, 2017)

With everyone arguing the toss on the Spurs, surprised no one has commented on that fantastic finish from Can. Some goal that


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## guest100718 (May 1, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			With everyone arguing the toss on the Spurs, surprised no one has commented on that fantastic finish from Can. Some goal that
		
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it's a meaningless end of season kick about.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 1, 2017)

Here's an explanation of the Rashford dive from ex-pro's and why to me it's wrong to blame the modern game, they've been at it for years.

https://twitter.com/emandagoonn/status/858671309110300673


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 1, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			With everyone arguing the toss on the Spurs, surprised no one has commented on that fantastic finish from Can. Some goal that
		
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Suggest you read all the posts then!


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## HomerJSimpson (May 1, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Suggest you read all the posts then!
		
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OK apologies, it got a brief mention. I thought it would have got more of a reaction though. Piece of real skill


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 1, 2017)

Referee just lied, how pathetic!!


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## The Evertonian (May 1, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Referee just lied, how pathetic!!
		
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Blatant cheating


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 1, 2017)

Not the best game for the nuetral but more than a fair result.


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## clubchamp98 (May 1, 2017)

Very average from Reds to many backwards passes.
No flair upfront.
what a goal.
watford fans can't be happy watching that at home.
Lucas oh Dear.
Thought officials were pants , ref can't tell if he is on or off the pitch.
lino got nearly every one wrong for them.
3 pts though so happy.


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## Piece (May 1, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Very average from Reds to many backwards passes.
No flair upfront.
what a goal.
*watford fans can't be happy watching that at home.*
Lucas oh Dear.
Thought officials were pants , ref can't tell if he is on or off the pitch.
lino got nearly every one wrong for them.
3 pts though so happy.
		
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No, we are not and haven't been for a while. Yes, we've been hit with many injuries but even with them fit, it's so flipping dull to watch. More than time for Walter to go.

Lino had a mare.


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## Stuart_C (May 1, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Your point falls rather flat, you're trying to criticise the PL current leading goalscorer for not scoring more :thup:
		
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No it doesn't and no I am not.

Like I've said it's not just his goals. His all round game needs to improve.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 1, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			No it doesn't and no I am not.

Like I've said it's not just his goals. His all round game needs to improve.
		
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No it doesn't :thup:


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## Stuart_C (May 1, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Very average from Reds to many backwards passes.
No flair upfront.
what a goal.
watford fans can't be happy watching that at home.
Lucas oh Dear.
Thought officials were pants , ref can't tell if he is on or off the pitch.
lino got nearly every one wrong for them.
3 pts though so happy.
		
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Losing Coutinho so early never helped, Firmino is much more dangerous as the striker.

3 more pts towards Arsenal's 4th place trophy.....


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## Stuart_C (May 1, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			it's a meaningless end of season kick about.
		
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Yesterday's game must've been the same. no?


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## guest100718 (May 1, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Yesterday's game must've been the same. no?
		
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yep we also dispatched a mid table team. win on Friday and we're a point off the top.


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## Stuart_C (May 1, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			yep we also dispatched a mid table team. win on Friday and we're a point off the top.
		
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I hope you do....


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## guest100718 (May 1, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I hope you do....
		
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thanks. me too.


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## anotherdouble (May 2, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			yep we also dispatched a mid table team. win on Friday and we're a point off the top.
		
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And when Chelsea beat Middlesbrough Monday night it's back to 4 so you will be no further forward


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## Hobbit (May 2, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			And when Chelsea beat Middlesbrough Monday night it's back to 4 so you will be no further forward
		
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In your dreams... C'mon Boro!!


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## HomerJSimpson (May 2, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			In your dreams... C'mon Boro!!
		
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Got to love an optimist


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 2, 2017)

Great performance by Real Madrid in the first leg of the CL semi-final.
Love him or hate, Ronaldo was a different class.


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## Papas1982 (May 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Great performance by Real Madrid in the first leg of the CL semi-final.
Love him or hate, Ronaldo was a different class.
		
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Just another flat track bully................


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## HomerJSimpson (May 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Great performance by Real Madrid in the first leg of the CL semi-final.
Love him or hate, Ronaldo was a different class.
		
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Fantastic hat-trick. Think that's one final place sorted


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 2, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Just another flat track bully................



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Exactly, had to leave the PL to get a career


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## Slime (May 2, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



*Fantastic hat-trick.* Think that's one final place sorted
		
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What do you expect?
After all, he is the best there is!


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## Pin-seeker (May 3, 2017)

Slime said:



			What do you expect?
After all, he is the best there is!
		
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Cristiano Ronaldo â€“ CL Records
Most goals: 103
Most home goals: 54
Most away goals: 47
Most KO stage goals: 52
Most assists: 31

Not bad I suppose


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## HomerJSimpson (May 3, 2017)

That was a pretty move by Juve. Great team goal


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## Slime (May 3, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Cristiano Ronaldo â€“ CL Records
Most goals: 103
Most home goals: 54
Most away goals: 47
Most KO stage goals: 52
Most assists: 31

Not bad I suppose
		
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He's actually scored more hat-tricks than Alan Shearer, Wayne Rooney, Thiery Henry, Robbie Fowler, Michael Owen and Harry Kane ......................... combined !!!


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## Papas1982 (May 3, 2017)

Slime said:



			He's actually scored more hat-tricks than Alan Shearer, Wayne Rooney, Thiery Henry, Robbie Fowler, Michael Owen and Harry Kane ......................... combined !!!
		
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Only one in the PL though....

Undoubtably one of the best ever. But the top two in Spain have a feieldmday year in year against the bottom half of the table. 

His and messi's stats will beat any player who's played in any other top division. And they'd beat any other player if they played in the prem/Germany or Italy too I expect. But they'd be less impressive if they had imo.


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## Pin-seeker (May 4, 2017)

Slime said:



			He's actually scored more hat-tricks than Alan Shearer, Wayne Rooney, Thiery Henry, Robbie Fowler, Michael Owen and Harry Kane ......................... combined !!!
		
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I was surprised by the assists. 
5 goals v Bayern over 2 legs & 3 v Atletico in the 1st leg is unreal.


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## Hobbit (May 4, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Only one in the PL though....

Undoubtably one of the best ever. But the top two in Spain have a feieldmday year in year against the bottom half of the table. 

His and messi's stats will beat any player who's played in any other top division. And they'd beat any other player if they played in the prem/Germany or Italy too I expect. But they'd be less impressive if they had imo.
		
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Bit like saying Celtic are the best team in the world because they've won the Scottish Prem for xxx years on the bounce.

But what about his record in the Champion's League? Outstanding, but should it only count once out of the group stages when all the diddy teams are out?


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## Lord Tyrion (May 4, 2017)

Those numbers are all distorted now. Back in the day you only qualified if you were champions of your league or returning winners. Now the likes of Real are guaranteed a place every season. Next the number of games in the competition is significantly greater. No going out after two matches now.


There is no disputing the numbers are impressive but you have to re-set the stats start date for them to mean anything.


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## Dan2501 (May 4, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Cristiano Ronaldo â€“ CL Records
Most goals: 103
Most home goals: 54
Most away goals: 47
Most KO stage goals: 52
Most assists: 31

Not bad I suppose
		
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Unbeliveable. We're so spoilt having Ronaldo and Messi playing in the same era. Two of the greatest goal scorers of all-time. Ronaldo's record in the last 10 seasons is nothing short of exceptional. For me, he's the greatest of all time.


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## Papas1982 (May 4, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Bit like saying Celtic are the best team in the world because they've won the Scottish Prem for xxx years on the bounce.

But what about his record in the Champion's League? Outstanding, but should it only count once out of the group stages when all the diddy teams are out?
		
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He still bangs them in in the knockouts too. Last 8 goals proving that. 

Im not doubting his huge talent at all. But if you're in a team that's wins the league with plus 70 year on year. Your goals ration will obviously be better. If he'd stayed at Utd the. He wouldn't have the same goals imo. 

Although shearer would of had serious competition for his record.


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## Slime (May 4, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			He still bangs them in in the knockouts too. Last 8 goals proving that. 

Im not doubting his huge talent at all. But if you're in a team that's wins the league with plus 70 year on year. Your goals ration will obviously be better. If he'd stayed at Utd the. He wouldn't have the same goals imo. 

*Although shearer would of had serious competition for his record*.
		
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Not a prayer, I don't think he'd have even come close.


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## Dan2501 (May 4, 2017)

Ronaldo scored 49 goals in his last 2 PL seasons and has only improved as a player since then, no doubt in my mind as to whether he'd have broken Shearer's record. He'd have only needed 22 goals a season in his last 8 since leaving to equal Shearer, to think he wouldn't surpass it when he's easily got 3/4/5 more good years left in him is madness.


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## Slime (May 4, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			He still bangs them in in the knockouts too. Last 8 goals proving that. 

Im not doubting his huge talent at all. But if you're in a team that's wins the league with plus 70 year on year. Your goals ration will obviously be better. If he'd stayed at Utd the. He wouldn't have the same goals imo. 

Although shearer would of had serious competition for his record.
		
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Slime said:



			Not a prayer, I don't think he'd have even come close.
		
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Ooops, I think I misunderstood the first quoted post!
Ronaldo would, if he'd stayed in the EPL, have absolutely battered Shearer's goal scoring record.
He'd have battered all EPL goal scoring and assist records.


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## Papas1982 (May 4, 2017)

Slime said:



			Ooops, I think I misunderstood the first quoted post!
Ronaldo would, if he'd stayed in the EPL, have absolutely battered Shearer's goal scoring record.
He'd have battered all EPL goal scoring and assist records.
		
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hed certainly have beaten the goals imo. But the assists? I'm not sure sure. Whatever club he was at he would be the main striker. But in a league where the top teams score approx 30% less than in Spain. He'd had contributed less. 

I also think his totals would be around the 40 a season as he did at Utd. Not the 60 he gets at Madrid. Which would have still been Fantastic. But would have made him look inferior (he isn't imo) to messi.


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## Slime (May 4, 2017)

I heard somewhere that he's scored 25 headers out of all of his hat-trick goals, which is 3 more than Messi has scored in his whole Barcelona career!


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 4, 2017)

Slime said:



			Ooops, I think I misunderstood the first quoted post!
Ronaldo would, if he'd stayed in the EPL, have absolutely battered Shearer's goal scoring record.
He'd have battered all EPL goal scoring and assist records.
		
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Unless of course he'd of tripped over the cat and done an injury that finished his career, there's no way you can state he'd of battered all EPL goal scoring and assist records, he may of had the potential but we'll never know.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 4, 2017)

Slime said:



			I heard somewhere that he's scored 25 headers out of all of his hat-trick goals, which is 3 more than Messi has scored in his whole Barcelona career!
		
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Right now Messi has 22 honours compared to Ronaldo 17  plus a better goal to game ratio

There is no definite stat that proves who is better


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Right now Messi has 22 honours compared to Ronaldo 17  plus a better goal to game ratio

There is no definite stat that proves who is better
		
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:thup: Agree


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## Papas1982 (May 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Right now Messi has 22 honours compared to Ronaldo 17  plus a better goal to game ratio

There is no definite stat that proves who is better
		
Click to expand...

Spot on. 

We're lucky to witness both careers run simultaneously. I think that competitiveness has driven them on to better than if they'd played in different eras.


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## Slime (May 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Right now Messi has 22 honours compared to Ronaldo 17  plus a better goal to game ratio

*There is no definite stat that proves who is better*

Click to expand...

Absolutely, it's all about opinions, and that's one of the reasons that superb forums, such as this one, keep going.

There really is no definitive answer ............................... although Ronaldo is a slightly better player .


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## richy (May 4, 2017)

Slime said:



			Ooops, I think I misunderstood the first quoted post!
Ronaldo would, if he'd stayed in the EPL, have absolutely battered Shearer's goal scoring record.
He'd have battered all EPL goal scoring and assist records.
		
Click to expand...

He wouldn't but he'd of give it a good go.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 4, 2017)

richy said:



			He wouldn't but he'd of give it a good go.
		
Click to expand...

Get back on the Championship thread! You're not allowed on here till mid august :rofl:


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## richy (May 4, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Get back on the Championship thread! You're not allowed on here till mid august :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

That's me told :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 4, 2017)

richy said:



			That's me told :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

You need to ask a mackem to post on your behalf


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## Tashyboy (May 4, 2017)

Slime said:



			Absolutely, it's all about opinions, and that's one of the reasons that superb forums, such as this one, keep going.

There really is no definitive answer ............................... although Ronaldo is a slightly better cheater, and big girls blouse .
		
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Sorted Slime.&#128077;


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## Lord Tyrion (May 5, 2017)

A fine adaptation Tashy &#128514;&#128514; ha ha.


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## Slime (May 5, 2017)

Slime said:



			Absolutely, it's all about opinions, and that's one of the reasons that superb forums, such as this one, keep going.

There really is no definitive answer ............................... although Ronaldo is a slightly better player and a big girls' blouse  that you'd love to have playing for your lot. .
		
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Re-fixed Tashy :thup:


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## Lord Tyrion (May 5, 2017)

15 all


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## Slime (May 5, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			15 all 

Click to expand...


:rofl::rofl:   :thup:


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## Fish (May 5, 2017)

Manchester City fined Â£300,000 by Premier League and banned from signing academy players for two years.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			Manchester City fined Â£300,000 by Premier League and banned from signing academy players for two years.
		
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Fully story here http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ademy-players-for-two-years-by-premier-league but to be honest City along with a lot of clubs don't seem to be the best at bringing academy players forward towards PL level so will it really make a huge difference other than the kudos of winning the youth FA cup and league?


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 5, 2017)

Where's this West Ham team been all season?


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## HomerJSimpson (May 5, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Where's this West Ham team been all season?
		
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They look totally different. First to the tackle and playing with a real purpose. Game over for the PL title race though (if it wasn't already)


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 5, 2017)

Get the feeling that means more than 3 points to West Ham. :rofl:


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## Jensen (May 5, 2017)

Well, I was resigned to Chelsea winning the league, even when we did really well to close the gap to 4 points.
Dogged performance by West Ham and they took their chance.
Dembele is a massive player for us and would have liked to see him come on earlier.
Credit to Conte, new man, new league, different country. As they say "The Boy Done Well"


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## Pin-seeker (May 5, 2017)

That's definitely the title race over :whoo:


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## Stuart_C (May 5, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			That's definitely the title race over :whoo:
		
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It was already over, tonight's game was just a meaningless end of season kick about........


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## Pin-seeker (May 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			It was already over, tonight's game was just a meaningless end of season kick about........

Click to expand...

Reckon you'll make top 4 now so aswell.best get the open top bus fired up &#128513;


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## Stuart_C (May 5, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Reckon you'll make top 4 now so aswell.best get the open top bus fired up &#128513;
		
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We're Liverpool, not Arsenal.


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## Pin-seeker (May 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			We're Liverpool, not Arsenal.
		
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True


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## Fish (May 6, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Reckon you'll make top 4 now so aswell.best get the open top bus fired up &#128513;
		
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I don't think Saints at home is a banker after some past home results against so-called lesser teams &#129300;


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## Fish (May 6, 2017)

Boing Boing, Baggies away it is then &#128540;


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## sawtooth (May 6, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Well, I was resigned to Chelsea winning the league, even when we did really well to close the gap to 4 points.
Dogged performance by West Ham and they took their chance.
Dembele is a massive player for us and would have liked to see him come on earlier.
Credit to Conte, new man, new league, different country. As they say "The Boy Done Well"
		
Click to expand...


Away to West Ham always is a difficult and tricky fixture for Spurs. Same when you go to Anfield.

I think Spurs have been great the last couple of years but fear the chance of winning the league may have gone now for a while. Very difficult to now keep, maintain, add to what you've already got whilst paying for a new stadium and playing at Wembley for a season.

Odds are really stacked against you.


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## Tashyboy (May 6, 2017)

Off to see the City in five mins get another point at home. &#128077;


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## clubchamp98 (May 6, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Off to see the City in five mins get another point at home. &#62541;
		
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Positive thinking there.


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## Tashyboy (May 6, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Positive thinking there.
		
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Flippin frustrated realist. Ave a look at how many we have drawn at home. What wi aguero. Stones and silva out. Could be a long day.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 6, 2017)

Blimey, how open are City? No wonder they have not won the league when they give out so much space. Fun to watch but stressful for City fans.


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## Tashyboy (May 6, 2017)

And thats what you get when you take your chances. And about time as well.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 6, 2017)

I thought I was watching Arsenal for a spell there Tashy. Lots of faffing about and no end product. Then bam. Lovely to watch when they stop pratting about.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 6, 2017)

Bag of sh1te.


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## Fish (May 6, 2017)

Very surprised by the Sunderland result, once again an already relegated team is having its say on who is being dragged down with them. 

I think I'm right in thinking that had Hull won today that would have as good as sent Boro down before kicking another ball as they'd then have to win all their next 3 matches with Hull not picking up another point! Ain't gonna happen!  

And now with Swansea wining against Everton I think it's 3 North East clubs for the drop and 1 coming back &#128540;


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 6, 2017)

Fish said:



			Very surprised by the Sunderland result, once again an already relegated team is having its say on who is being dragged down with them. 

I think I'm right in thinking that had Hull won today that would have as good as sent Boro down before kicking another ball as they'd then have to win all their next 3 matches with Hull not picking up another point! Ain't gonna happen!  

And now with Swansea wining against Everton I think it's 3 North East clubs for the drop and 1 coming back &#128540;
		
Click to expand...

And Hartlepool have dropped out of the League as well tonight, North East are having a mare!


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## Fish (May 6, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			And Hartlepool have dropped out of the League as well tonight, North East are having a mare!
		
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Rather a Mare than another Monkey hanging &#128540;&#128514;


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## HomerJSimpson (May 6, 2017)

Fish said:



			Very surprised by the Sunderland result, once again an already relegated team is having its say on who is being dragged down with them.
		
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Often happens. No pressure and players suddenly realising they are playing for their places (which sometimes doesn't seem too obvious to the fans during the season). Jeff Stelling trying to keep a brave face on it. Watched the second half and the did all they could but I think they only had 2 out of 24 points before today so too little too late


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## Stuart_C (May 6, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Bag of sh1te.
		
Click to expand...

Did "Big Rom" play today?


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 6, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Did "Big Rom" play today?  

Click to expand...

:blah::blah::blah: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## Stuart_C (May 6, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			:blah::blah::blah: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
		
Click to expand...

:ears::rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 6, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			:ears::rofl:
		
Click to expand...

 :thup:


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## Stuart_C (May 6, 2017)

Fish said:



			Very surprised by the Sunderland result, once again an already relegated team is having its say on who is being dragged down with them. 

I think I'm right in thinking that had Hull won today that would have as good as sent Boro down before kicking another ball as they'd then have to win all their next 3 matches with Hull not picking up another point! Ain't gonna happen!  

And now with Swansea wining against Everton I think it's 3 North East clubs for the drop and 1 coming back &#128540;
		
Click to expand...

Unlucky fishy me auld mucker, the Ev losing means You're paying me out again :whoo: :whoo:

I'll gladly accept old fivers aswell


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## Fish (May 6, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Unlucky fishy me auld mucker, the Ev losing means You're paying me out again :whoo: :whoo:

I'll gladly accept old fivers aswell 

Click to expand...

I'll get some fresh 'uns on the printer overnight &#128540;

I think yous have been lucky this season with poor results all around yous and those teams not taking advantage of your poor results at times. 

Don't like what I'm hearing from Jose who apparently is going to rest players and play weakened teams now in the PL and only concentrate on winning Europa to get into the CL.  I wonder if he'll change that view if the Saints turn you over at home tomorrow &#128540;

Has Peter sent him an email begging for help to win his bet &#129300;

If you make 4th it's only from good fortune and not from your own overall performances imo. 

You'll come unstuck to the Toffees next season &#128077;


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## Stuart_C (May 6, 2017)

Fish said:



			I'll get some fresh 'uns on the printer overnight &#128540;

I think yous have been lucky this season with poor results all around yous and those teams not taking advantage of your poor results at times. 




			I expect better from you. We've done pretty well considering the squad we've got and the injuries we've had.
		
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Don't like what I'm hearing from Jose who apparently is going to rest players and play weakened teams now in the PL and only concentrate on winning Europa to get into the CL. 




			Even you should know not to believe Mourinho. Do you honestly believe he's taking a weakend side to Arsenal??
		
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  I wonder if he'll change that view if the Saints turn you over at home tomorrow &#128540;

Has Peter sent him an email begging for help to win his bet &#129300;

If you make 4th it's only from good fortune and not from your own overall performances imo. 




			The same could be said of you'd :ears: Tleague table doesn't lie, and with the 6th best squad in the league to finish top 4 would be progress. No?
		
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You'll come unstuck to the Toffees next season &#128077;
		
Click to expand...

Same bet for next season??


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## Stuart_C (May 6, 2017)

Fish said:



			Everton will finish above Liverpool this season and L'pool with finish 6th at best. 

&#128540;
		
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Fish said:



			It would, but I did say at best and I think you'll fall short again.
		
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Hehe, homeresque predictions from you fishy baby :ears:


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## Fish (May 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Hehe, homeresque predictions from you fishy baby :ears:
		
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Not really, only because Urd and Arsenal unexpectedly imploded are you where you are now imo. 

Virtually everyone expected Utd to make and push into 4th, or better.  

City were always going to be in the mix. 

 I don't think many thought Arsenal would not be in the top 4 so thats you at 5th now at best and that was only if Spurs fell away, which a lot of people thought would happen, but didn't, so that now put you at 6th. It was s very real prediction. 

I can't see the 2 clubs who finish 5th & 6th if they are Utd & Arsenal accepting the positions they finish in this season without some big changes, changes I don't think Liverpool as a club will match, so I honestly believe the same scenario//philosophy will apply next season, the only difference being you won't get the squeeze you got this year and if you do get CL this time out, that will only put more strain and pressure on a weak squad, unless you go mad into the marketplace, which I don't think you will. 

Nothing Homeresque about that, its all orettty logical imo.


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## Stuart_C (May 7, 2017)

Fish said:



*Not really, only because Urd and Arsenal unexpectedly imploded are you where you are now imo. *

Virtually everyone expected Utd to make and push into 4th, or better.  

City were always going to be in the mix. 

 I don't think many thought Arsenal would not be in the top 4 so thats you at 5th now at best and that was only if Spurs fell away, which a lot of people thought would happen, but didn't, so that now put you at 6th. It was s very real prediction. 

I can't see the 2 clubs who finish 5th & 6th if they are Utd & Arsenal accepting the positions they finish in this season without some big changes, changes I don't think Liverpool as a club will match, so I honestly believe the same scenario//philosophy will apply next season, the only difference being you won't get the squeeze you got this year and if you do get CL this time out, that will only put more strain and pressure on a weak squad, unless you go mad into the marketplace, which I don't think you will. 

Nothing Homeresque about that, its all orettty logical imo.
		
Click to expand...

 .  Have Chelsea won the league because of yernited's,Arsenals, City's failures then??  

No they've won it because they've been the best team over the 38 games and have rightfully won it.  

The league table doesn't lie, teams finish where they do on merit. It's very disrespectful to suggest it's all luck or because of other teams failures. 

We may still finish 5th or 6th but right now we are where we are because we've won games. Yes it could've and probably should've been better but that's football.

Yernited added  arguably 4 world class players to an already quality squad but it hasn't worked out for them. 

They've produced another season like they did in the previous 3 seasons, 5th could be par for them.

I can't see major changes at Arsenal if Wenger stays, can you?

I agree with your point about our squad and that really does need to be addressed.


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## Papas1982 (May 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



 .  Have Chelsea won the league because of yernited's,Arsenals, City's failures then??  

No they've won it because they've been the best team over the 38 games and have rightfully won it.  

The league table doesn't lie, teams finish where they do on merit. It's very disrespectful to suggest it's all luck or because of other teams failures. 

We may still finish 5th or 6th but right now we are where we are because we've won games. Yes it could've and probably should've been better but that's football.

Yernited added  arguably 4 world class players to an already quality squad but it hasn't worked out for them. 

They've produced another season like they did in the previous 3 seasons, 5th could be par for them.

I can't see major changes at Arsenal if Wenger stays, can you?

I agree with your point about our squad and that really does need to be addressed.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not liverpools (fc) biggest fan, but i think you deserve credit. When on it you play some of the best footy in the league. And you're on course for a point total that usually merits 4th. 

As you've pointed out. Squad depth will be your biggest challenge next season imo, and not sure our squad has to many that you can go for this summer!


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## Stuart_C (May 7, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I'm not liverpools (fc) biggest fan, but i think you deserve credit. When on it you play some of the best footy in the league. And you're on course for a point total that usually merits 4th. 

As you've pointed out. Squad depth will be your biggest challenge next season imo, and not sure our squad has to many that you can go for this summer!
		
Click to expand...

Regardless of where we finish it'll be down to us whether that be success or failure. The league table doesn't lie for any side.


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## Papas1982 (May 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Regardless of where we finish it'll be down to us whether that be success or failure. The league table doesn't lie for any side.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, i simply meant that if you look back over the years then the points tally warrants cl which dispels the ideas of luck etc, as you've gotten a decent total.

A bit like if a team got relegated with 40 points plus they could feel unfortunate.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 7, 2017)

I thought the PL finished last Oct when LPool won it? Is it still going on?


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## Stuart_C (May 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I thought the PL finished last Oct when LPool won it? Is it still going on? 

Click to expand...

:blah: :blah::blah:

It was November actually:ears:


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			:blah: :blah::blah:

It was November actually:ears:
		
Click to expand...

That was before you started moaning about your squad, didn't here any complaints for the first 3 months of the season. :whoo:


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## Stuart_C (May 7, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree, i simply meant that if you look back over the years then the points tally warrants cl which dispels the ideas of luck etc, as you've gotten a decent total.

A bit like if a team got relegated with 40 points plus they could feel unfortunate.
		
Click to expand...

I get that papas, we can all dissect it and say" if this" or "if that" but the reality is the league table doesn't lie. You get out what you put in. 

Every side with exception of Chelsea will feel they could've done better this season. 

With the squads city and Yernited have they should've done better.


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## Stuart_C (May 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			That was before you started moaning about your squad, didn't here any complaints for the first 3 months of the season. :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

Go back and have a look near the start of the thread and I questioned the size and quality of the squad :thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I get that papas, we can all dissect it and say" if this" or "if that" but the reality is the league table doesn't lie. You get out what you put in. 

Every side with exception of Chelsea will feel they could've done better this season. 

With the squads city and Yernited have they should've done better.
		
Click to expand...

City will be disappointed, but if Utd win the Europa they'll have 2 pieces of silverware and CL football, can't believe they won't be happy with that in Jose's first season.

Next season I would believe the owners expect both City and United to challenge Chelsea for the title.

I reckon you's need silverware of some sort next year or the anti-klopp brigade will be out.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Go back and have a look near the start of the thread and I questioned the size and quality of the squad :thup:
		
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A lone voice in a tide of "this years our year" :rofl:


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## pauljames87 (May 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



 .  Have Chelsea won the league because of yernited's,Arsenals, City's failures then??  

No they've won it because they've been the best team over the 38 games and have rightfully won it.  

The league table doesn't lie, teams finish where they do on merit. It's very disrespectful to suggest it's all luck or because of other teams failures. 

We may still finish 5th or 6th but right now we are where we are because we've won games. Yes it could've and probably should've been better but that's football.

Yernited added  arguably 4 world class players to an already quality squad but it hasn't worked out for them. 

They've produced another season like they did in the previous 3 seasons, 5th could be par for them.

I can't see major changes at Arsenal if Wenger stays, can you?

I agree with your point about our squad and that really does need to be addressed.
		
Click to expand...

I think Chelsea have won because Spurs are slow starters.. they should have been out of sight but drew too many early games

best team to watch in the league by a mile

and im a bloody hammer so its not a biased view


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## pauljames87 (May 7, 2017)

Fish said:



			Very surprised by the Sunderland result, once again an already relegated team is having its say on who is being dragged down with them. 

I think I'm right in thinking that had Hull won today that would have as good as sent Boro down before kicking another ball as they'd then have to win all their next 3 matches with Hull not picking up another point! Ain't gonna happen!  

And now with Swansea wining against Everton I think it's 3 North East clubs for the drop and 1 coming back &#63004;
		
Click to expand...

if it does come to 3 teams from the North East dropping what will it do to their economy? its not just a few players who get sold whole cost cutting measures are normally introduced.. people laid off.. less people already coming to the area due to the decrease in crowds


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## Papas1982 (May 7, 2017)

pauljames87 said:



			I think Chelsea have won because Spurs are slow starters.. they should have been out of sight but drew too many early games

best team to watch in the league by a mile

and im a bloody hammer so its not a biased view
		
Click to expand...

Chelsea will win it as they are the better team.Best to watch doesn't mean a thing, arsenal had that title for years.

Btw, spurs were 2 points behind chelsea after 10.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 7, 2017)

Can I just clear this up, Hull are not a North East team. Two NE teams are likely to go down but whoever else joins them it won't make it three.

In answer to a previous question, Boro are a well run club and so I would be surprised if they had to lay a lot of people off. Sunderland have been a PL club for a few years now and so probably spend accordingly. I know they have a lot of debt so redundancies there will be more likely. Saying that the debt will be entirely player driven. The club is not flash and so should not have too many excess staff. It may be both teams need fewer match day staff but they will be temporary staff anyway.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 7, 2017)

pauljames87 said:



			if it does come to 3 teams from the North East dropping what will it do to their economy? its not just a few players who get sold whole cost cutting measures are normally introduced.. people laid off.. less people already coming to the area due to the decrease in crowds
		
Click to expand...

It'll have very little effect, Hull are not NE for one and fans will still go the games.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 7, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can I just clear this up, Hull are not a North East team. Two NE teams are likely to go down but whoever else joins them it won't make it three.

In answer to a previous question, Boro are a well run club and so I would be surprised if they had to lay a lot of people off. Sunderland have been a PL club for a few years now and so probably spend accordingly. I know they have a lot of debt so redundancies there will be more likely. Saying that the debt will be entirely player driven. The club is not flash and so should not have too many excess staff. It may be both teams need fewer match day staff but they will be temporary staff anyway.
		
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They'll get millions in parachute payments and one of them will be back up next year.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 7, 2017)

I'm not so sure either will go up next year. I can see a big cull happening at Sunderland to reduce the wage bill. Big turnovers of players rarely end well. I think they will be like Villa this year. Boro will have the best chance of bouncing back but they are not inspiring so I'm not sure there.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 7, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm not so sure either will go up next year. I can see a big cull happening at Sunderland to reduce the wage bill. Big turnovers of players rarely end well. I think they will be like Villa this year. Boro will have the best chance of bouncing back but they are not inspiring so I'm not sure there.
		
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I'm not sure which one, but think one of them will


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## One Planer (May 7, 2017)

How does the lines man not see that from Mingolet?


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## Pin-seeker (May 7, 2017)

Does Klopp ever stop complaining to the officials?


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Did "Big Rom" play today?  

Click to expand...

Did any of the Liverpool first 11 play today?


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## BristolMike (May 7, 2017)

Does Klopp watch the same game as the rest of us? He seems to act like teams should open up and let Liverpool score instead of defend and counter attack. He blind to the fact his team doesn't create much without mane, or without random individual brilliance. Always blames the way the opposition play 

united/arsenal/Chelsea have had to deal with it for years. You have to find a way to get through


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## SaintHacker (May 7, 2017)

If my maths is correct I make that 450 mins since Liverpool have scored against their 'feeder team'. Couldn't even manage it from 12 yards!


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## SaintHacker (May 7, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Does Klopp ever stop complaining to the officials?
		
Click to expand...

In fairness the goal kick was a shocking decision but his reaction was priceless:rofl:


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## Fish (May 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



 .  Have Chelsea won the league because of yernited's,Arsenals, City's failures then??
		
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No, because they'll have won it with more points than those teams have won it previously on, and possibly into the 90's this season. 

Teams have won it on much lesser points than previous seasons winners because those challenging teams have suffered massive changes in some way, so those teams that finish higher but on the same points or less than they had attained previously haven't exactly improved, have they?

It's my opinion and I won't change it, it isn't a pop, it's how I see it.  

When we won the title back to back both times achieving over 90 points, when it was next won with 89 did Utd improve or did Chelsea take the foot off the gas coming 2nd with 82 points I think?   

I know and understand it's not as clear cut as that but I'm sure you get my meaning, Leicester being a case in point, they won the title with only 81 points, yes they did well and it was a great achievement, but my god all the usual challenging top 4-5 teams had a massive off season all together with only 2 teams scraping 70 points!  

Without a much stronger bench and a couple more very good experienced signings to add to your current 1st team, you won't and can't stay in the hunting pack imo as those that have faltered this season I can't see standing still another season, but I can see Liverpool being too stretched with any European fixtures being added to an already threadbare squad so they'll be 5th/6th next season which is still a possibility this season!  

IMHO &#128521;


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## Pin-seeker (May 7, 2017)

SaintHacker said:



			In fairness the goal kick was a shocking decision but his reaction was priceless:rofl:
		
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Seemed like every time the camera was on him he was losing the plot. 
Funny seeing Moreno doing bottle flips to keep him self amused. 
Hope the Arsenal v Utd is a bit better.


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## Slime (May 7, 2017)

I see Liverpool have opened the door for United to slip through ................. let's just wait and see how United can balls it up this week !!


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## Fish (May 7, 2017)

Slime said:



			I see Liverpool have opened the door for United to slip through ................. let's just wait and see how United can balls it up this week !!
		
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That door has been opened and shut many times this season, who knows where it'll end?


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## Tashyboy (May 7, 2017)

With the spuds losing, Liverpool drawing and Utd and the Arsenal sending me to sleep. Looks like being a good weekend for City and Chelsea.


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## Slime (May 7, 2017)

Spawny old Arsenal, what a fluke of a goal ....................... and that's how United shut the door.
Only have 35mins left to open it again!!


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## Slime (May 7, 2017)

Ooops. I think they've locked it now.


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## clubchamp98 (May 7, 2017)

Utter dross from Reds.
Klopp watched it for 70 mins before changing anything .
he should watch the match instead of arguing with the fourth official.

looks like Arsenal will do us a favour 2.0


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## Slime (May 7, 2017)

Anyone got a price for a Rooney red card?


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## Pin-seeker (May 7, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Utter dross from Reds.
Klopp watched it for 70 mins before changing anything .
he should watch the match instead of arguing with the fourth official.

looks like Arsenal will do us a favour 2.0
		
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Apparently the pitch was a bit dry aswell &#128563;


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## clubchamp98 (May 7, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Apparently the pitch was a bit dry aswell &#63027;
		
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I am not his biggest fan .
The fourth official intervened to give a foul but would not tell ref it was a corner.
Ref was pants.
no excuses Liverpool were very poor but Klopp watched it like me for 70 mins.
the crowd were chanting for a sub, someone to take people on.
Sturrige was more effective but not on for long enough.

midfield is poor sideways passes ,no flair, no width. 

I know now prem is big buisness but if I had traveled 300 miles to watch saints play like that. It's supposed to be entertainment.
but table position equals more money and their tactics were spot on if not predictable.

we just can't get round a bus.


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## Papas1982 (May 7, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			I am not his biggest fan .
The fourth official intervened to give a foul but would not tell ref it was a corner.
Ref was pants.
no excuses Liverpool were very poor but Klopp watched it like me for 70 mins.
the crowd were chanting for a sub, someone to take people on.
Sturrige was more effective but not on for long enough.

midfield is poor sideways passes ,no flair, no width. 

I know now prem is big buisness but if I had traveled 300 miles to watch saints play like that. It's supposed to be entertainment.
but table position equals more money and their tactics were spot on if not predictable.

we just can't get round a bus.
		
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As a saints fan, i can tell you. Compared to the football we played in the 90's. I'd settle for performances like that away from home all day long. 
We went with our best option for points (not prize money) and it worked.
 You had one proper chance, the rest were speculative at best, and in the last 20mins, with more composure our counters could have caused more problems.

It seems to me that a lot of the crowd were wanting subs, how long til fans turn on him (klopp)?


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## Tashyboy (May 7, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			I am not his biggest fan .
The fourth official intervened to give a foul but would not tell ref it was a corner.
Ref was pants.
no excuses Liverpool were very poor but Klopp watched it like me for 70 mins.
the crowd were chanting for a sub, someone to take people on.
Sturrige was more effective but not on for long enough.

midfield is poor sideways passes ,no flair, no width. 

I know now prem is big buisness but if I had traveled 300 miles to watch saints play like that. It's supposed to be entertainment.
but table position equals more money and their tactics were spot on if not predictable.

we just can't get round a bus.
		
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The Reds played like that against City last week and it was described as a defensive masterclass. Bore fest more like. Felt sorry for the Reds fans travelling back to London watching that rubbish.


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## Papas1982 (May 7, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			The Reds played like that against City last week and it was described as a defensive masterclass. Bore fest more like. Felt sorry for the Reds fans travelling back to London watching that rubbish.
		
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Come on Tash, when city were in their more usual postion of the last 20 years are you saying you prefered it when your team rolled over and had their tummy tickled so the big boys has an easy game?

Or did you love it when they put graft in and stole a 1-0 or even held on for a tough away point?

It's all well and good fans of big clubs criticising styles of football, but the majority of clubs in the league (7th down) want security first and foremost.


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## Tashyboy (May 7, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Come on Tash, when city were in their more usual postion of the last 20 years are you saying you prefered it when your team rolled over and had their tummy tickled so the big boys has an easy game?

Or did you love it when they put graft in and stole a 1-0 or even held on for a tough away point?

It's all well and good fans of big clubs criticising styles of football, but the majority of clubs in the league (7th down) want security first and foremost.
		
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No don't get me wrong, when teams played against Mourinhos teams and not just Utd. When they park the bus, Maureen goes OTT with his moaning of said tactics. But when his teams do it both here and in Europe, it is a tactical masterclass. Can thoroughly understand lesser team doing it. But Utd doing it against teams there equal. I don't get that.
When we were Rammel in the late  70-s to 00,s Utd played free flowing attacking footbal that, was entertaining, won games and won trophies. It must be hard for a Utd fan to have watched the last few seasons post fergie.


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## Pin-seeker (May 7, 2017)

Instead of moaning about opposition teams tactics,maybe managers should do what they get paid an obscene amount 
Of money to do & change to plan B or C.


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## clubchamp98 (May 7, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			As a saints fan, i can tell you. Compared to the football we played in the 90's. I'd settle for performances like that away from home all day long. 
We went with our best option for points (not prize money) and it worked.
 You had one proper chance, the rest were speculative at best, and in the last 20mins, with more composure our counters could have caused more problems.

It seems to me that a lot of the crowd were wanting subs, how long til fans turn on him (klopp)?
		
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Entertainment? .?? Must have been dire in the ninties..
But in the prem points make prizes.(Money)""
dont remember Minolet making a save (except outside the box.) very lucky boy,
Klopp is king in Bundesleigh but in the  Prem ????
Lucky Arsenal beat United so result is not to damaging.


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## clubchamp98 (May 7, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Instead of moaning about opposition teams tactics,maybe managers should do what they get paid an obscene amount 
Of money to do & change to plan B or C.
		
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Whats B & C


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## Papas1982 (May 7, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Entertainment? .?? Must have been dire in the ninties..
But in the prem points make prizes.(Money)""
dont remember Minolet making a save (except outside the box.) very lucky boy,
Klopp is king in Bundesleigh but in the  Prem ????
Lucky Arsenal beat United so result is not to damaging.
		
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Well yes, saints were fighting relegation for the first 25 years of my life lol.

 But there are only a hnadful of teams who regularly play entertaining football. Teams would still play the same money, irrespective of the money. I always wanted saints to be in the top flight so i could see the best players, long before sky got involved.

At the end of the day it is tactics, we don't play like it all season. 

It's all well and good wanting better when you're a top 6 club regularly, but there are times when ALL teams would be better off shutting up shop but do't and end up missing out on points as they don't have that tactic in their locker.

Serious question, would you rather be entertained all the time and finish top four every few years. Or be more pragmatic and come close to wining the league?


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## Pin-seeker (May 7, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Whats B & C
		
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I don't know,I'm not a manager &#128513;


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## davemc1 (May 7, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can I just clear this up, Hull are not a North East team. Two NE teams are likely to go down but whoever else joins them it won't make it three.

In answer to a previous question, Boro are a well run club and so I would be surprised if they had to lay a lot of people off. Sunderland have been a PL club for a few years now and so probably spend accordingly. I know they have a lot of debt so redundancies there will be more likely. Saying that the debt will be entirely player driven. The club is not flash and so should not have too many excess staff. It may be both teams need fewer match day staff but they will be temporary staff anyway.
		
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I'm easily confused so forgive me but..

Both Liverpool and Manchester are NorthWest power houses, Hull is on the NorthEast coast and North of both them two cities???


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## SaintHacker (May 7, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Instead of moaning about opposition teams tactics,maybe managers should do what they get paid an obscene amount 
Of money to do & change to plan B or C.
		
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100% correct


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## davemc1 (May 7, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Well yes, saints were fighting relegation for the first 25 years of my life lol.

 But there are only a hnadful of teams who regularly play entertaining football. Teams would still play the same money, irrespective of the money. I always wanted saints to be in the top flight so i could see the best players, long before sky got involved.

At the end of the day it is tactics, we don't play like it all season. 

It's all well and good wanting better when you're a top 6 club regularly, but there are times when ALL teams would be better off shutting up shop but do't and end up missing out on points as they don't have that tactic in their locker.

Serious question, would you rather be entertained all the time and finish top four every few years. Or be more pragmatic and come close to wining the league?
		
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I know the question is not aimed at me but, have we not done both of what you've asked in very recent years?

but then if we'd been more pragmatic your question changes...


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## Lord Tyrion (May 7, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			I'm easily confused so forgive me but..

Both Liverpool and Manchester are NorthWest power houses, Hull is on the NorthEast coast and North of both them two cities???
		
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East coast, not north east coast. North East starts when you cross from north Yorkshire into Teesside. Do you class Yorkshire as NE? Nope. Hull is below Leeds and York, which are both in the North. 

Clear now?&#128565;


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## davemc1 (May 7, 2017)

told you, I'm easily confused. 

are Liverpool and Manchester not in the north?


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## Lord Tyrion (May 7, 2017)

You're trying to look logically at this &#128513;. They are both northwest, go across a bit to Leeds which is just in the North and then go further across to Hull in the east. Go further north out of Yorkshire, reach the Boro and then you reach the NE. Put your head out of the car window when you are going north and listen for the change from tut Yorkshire accent to a NE twang. Then you know you've crossed the border.

Stop drawing proper lines across the country. Anyway our local news on the BBC has nothing to do with hull so that makes it official &#128079;


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## Papas1982 (May 7, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			I know the question is not aimed at me but, have we not done both of what you've asked in very recent years?

but then if we'd been more pragmatic your question changes...
		
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Sorry, maybe i should have said win the league. 
I think most would agree that with a little more sense you could have won it with suarez.

I think wanting good football is admirable, but results are what matters. Sure globetrotting title winners may be more revered in history. But Teams winning leagues with poor football will still be remembered more than gallant losers.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 7, 2017)

Jose clearly meant what he said about focusing on the Europa League. Can't see the top four changing from how it is with the exception of City and Liverpool possibly swapping places.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 7, 2017)

I find it hilarious all this moaning about teams "parking the bus" or putting "10 men behind the ball" no team goes through a whole season playing great football in every match.
You can guarantee playing certain teams away from home, teams will play defensively or get ripped apart, it's nothing new.
On another note, didn't LPool miss a pen today or is that being conveniently ignored while discussing Soton's style of play


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## fundy (May 7, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Jose clearly meant what he said about focusing on the Europa League. Can't see the top four changing from how it is with the exception of City and Liverpool possibly swapping places.
		
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are Everton still going to finish above Arsenal?


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## HomerJSimpson (May 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I find it hilarious all this moaning about teams "parking the bus" or putting "10 men behind the ball" no team goes through a whole season playing great football in every match.
You can guarantee playing certain teams away from home, teams will play defensively or get ripped apart, it's nothing new.
On another note, didn't LPool miss a pen today or is that being conveniently ignored while discussing Soton's style of play 

Click to expand...

So called smaller teams have always gone to places like Old Trafford, Anfield etc and played for the draw and been ultra defensive. Wasn't that part of the argument way back when to change it to 3 points for a win? It's down to the home team and the manager to find a way to break a side down and have a plan B if they can't find a way to get in front.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 7, 2017)

fundy said:



			are Everton still going to finish above Arsenal?
		
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Nope. Like most of the teams in the league they are now on the beach drinking sangria. Shame but there you go.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 7, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Nope. Like most of the teams in the league they are now on the beach drinking sangria. Shame but there you go.
		
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We were jinxed by Homer :rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (May 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I find it hilarious all this moaning about teams "parking the bus" or putting "10 men behind the ball" no team goes through a whole season playing great football in every match.
You can guarantee playing certain teams away from home, teams will play defensively or get ripped apart, it's nothing new.
On another note, didn't LPool miss a pen today or is that being conveniently ignored while discussing Soton's style of play 

Click to expand...

Not sure what your point is on the penalty. 
Not a bad pen imo,good save from Forster.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			We were jinxed by Homer :rofl:
		
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Should have sent the brown envelope on time! I'd happily have predicted another result then


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## fundy (May 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			We were jinxed by Homer :rofl:
		
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one of very few this year thats gone in our favour haha


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## Fish (May 7, 2017)

Am I right in thinking that if we beat the mighty Boro tomorrow night we send them down!

So many twists & turns this season, more so between 3rd and 6th over the last few months, and a few more to come imo with only 5 points beteeen them all if Arsenal get a result away to Saints midweek, and with L'pool who have played 1 more game than everyone else, I can see that 4th spot holding out right to the death, even with the possibility of goal difference, but who's going to grab it?


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 7, 2017)

Fish said:



			Am I right in thinking that if we beat the mighty Boro tomorrow night we send them down!

So many twists & turns this season, more so between 3rd and 6th over the last few months, and a few more to come imo with only 5 points beteeen them all if Arsenal get a result away to Saints midweek, and with L'pool who have played 1 more game than everyone else, I can see that 4th spot holding out right to the death, even with the possibility of goal difference.
		
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Better scenario is the mighty Boro go to Analfield on the last day of the season needing a win to stay up, they'll fancy their chances being a small club :rofl:


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## Hobbit (May 7, 2017)

Fish said:



			Am I right in thinking that if we beat the mighty Boro tomorrow night we send them down.
		
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And you get to spend the night with the barmaid from The Pig Iron!


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## clubchamp98 (May 7, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Well yes, saints were fighting relegation for the first 25 years of my life lol.

 But there are only a hnadful of teams who regularly play entertaining football. Teams would still play the same money, irrespective of the money. I always wanted saints to be in the top flight so i could see the best players, long before sky got involved.

At the end of the day it is tactics, we don't play like it all season. 

It's all well and good wanting better when you're a top 6 club regularly, but there are times when ALL teams would be better off shutting up shop but do't and end up missing out on points as they don't have that tactic in their locker.

Serious question, would you rather be entertained all the time and finish top four every few years. Or be more pragmatic and come close to wining the league?
		
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the problem at Anfield is all but the top teams just sit back.
You will never have a better chance than today to beat us at home at the moment we are very poor.
Liverpool might be in the top four but that's because the teams below them are more inconsistent than us.
we don't know how to open a team up who sit back, but Klopp just does not change anything until it's to late.
I just think if you had been a bit more attack minded you could have won.
Its very boring to watch. It's supposed to be entertaining but it's not, as there is to much money involved.
what the answer is I don't know.
We have not won the Leauge for a very long time it's sad but money talks.
Any fan would want his team to win anyway they can, but teams who just defend for the sake of it as you could not win the title or be relegated today just have a go.
I am just frustrated watching Liverpool struggle against so called lesser teams , there are NO pushovers in the prem.

Just to say anyone can miss a pen it was a great save.


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## Papas1982 (May 7, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			the problem at Anfield is all but the top teams just sit back.
You will never have a better chance than today to beat us at home at the moment we are very poor.
Liverpool might be in the top four but that's because the teams below them are more inconsistent than us.
we don't know how to open a team up who sit back, but Klopp just does not change anything until it's to late.
I just think if you had been a bit more attack minded you could have won.
Its very boring to watch. It's supposed to be entertaining but it's not, as there is to much money involved.
what the answer is I don't know.
We have not won the Leauge for a very long time it's sad but money talks.
Any fan would want his team to win anyway they can, but teams who just defend for the sake of it as you could not win the title or be relegated today just have a go.
I am just frustrated watching Liverpool struggle against so called lesser teams , there are NO pushovers in the prem.

Just to say anyone can miss a pen it was a great save.
		
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But as you start with. 

You dont know know how to beat teams that sit back. 

Most of your defeats have have come from small clubs countering you. When teams go at you and leave space you employ it it and win. 

Weve done a number on you a few a few times this season and not once has it been from going all guns blazing. 

As for us not having a go when we couldn't get relegated, that's irrelevant. Why should we give up our game plan and make it easier for you just because we're safe. We are still playing for top 10 and a draw against you is a good result in going for that.


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## clubchamp98 (May 7, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			But as you start with. 

You dont know know how to beat teams that sit back. 

Most of your defeats have have come from small clubs countering you. When teams go at you and leave space you employ it it and win. 

Weve done a number on you a few a few times this season and not once has it been from going all guns blazing. 

As for us not having a go when we couldn't get relegated, that's irrelevant. Why should we give up our game plan and make it easier for you just because we're safe. We are still playing for top 10 and a draw against you is a good result in going for that.
		
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well if we did teams would not do it!
Maybe when we have a full team out not today.
I never said all guns blazing just have a Go.
I am not really having a go at teams who play this way more at Liverpool/ Klopp for not coming up with a solution.
Its just very Groundhog Day for me.


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## Stuart_C (May 7, 2017)

We were poor today, looked very average. In other games this season when we've struggled to break teams down at least we've created chances, today was pish poor.

Firmino needs to be central, he's wasted in the 3 behind. There was no need for can, Gini and Lucas today imo.

Good pen from milner ( I had him FGS.@12/1  ), a very good save from Forster though.


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## clubchamp98 (May 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			We were poor today, looked very average. In other games this season when we've struggled to break teams down at least we've created chances, today was pish poor.

Firmino needs to be central, he's wasted in the 3 behind. There was no need for can, Gini and Lucas today imo.

Good pen from milner ( I had him FGS.@12/1  ), a very good save from Forster though.
		
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Thats Klopps fault ! 70 mins before he puts on two forward thinking players.
spent most of the game arguing with fourth official.
If Sturridge is fit he should be playing when you know a team is going to sit back.
80% possession mostly in our own half.
just heard Phil Neville say the prem is boring and needs to up its game that's because millions are involved between places in the table.
This encourages teams to play for a point.


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## Fish (May 8, 2017)

I think with 3 points from a home match being crucial to cement a position in the top 4 rather than hope others slip up and gift it you yesterday, I think we've pretty much seen everything of Klopp already and he's coming across as a one trick pony to me. 

I don't think I've seen him make any critical changes in players or a formation early enough in a match to change things when it clearly isn't working, there definitely doesn't seem to be a plan B. 

If you absorb your quick high intensity start to most if not all games for 25-30 minutes -ish, you can then settle and play you out, possible by mainly playing counter attack football, which Liverpool doesn't seem to have an answer to!

As with comments said above by others, you've been lucky that a couple of teams that you'd expect to be challenging a top four spot more than you have been even more inconsistent than you so your current position has been greatly helped, not so much outrightly earned imo. 

As I've said before, I can see those clubs/teams addressing their situations but I can't see many changes happening to improve Liverpool enough to break into that top 4 with any degree of consistency. 

I think of the current top 6 teams irrelevant of the current standings Liverpool are the weakest of that group and are not a long term bet to improve that (my) view of them, unless new owners came in with a different approach, and I'm not completely convinced that  Klopp is the answer either?! 

This summer will be interesting to see how some clubs react to winning through to the CL and see how much they strengthen there squads and see what players (and manager/s)  go and who comes in.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 8, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thats Klopps fault ! 70 mins before he puts on two forward thinking players.
spent most of the game arguing with fourth official.
If Sturridge is fit he should be playing when you know a team is going to sit back.
80% possession mostly in our own half.
just heard Phil Neville say the prem is boring and needs to up its game that's because millions are involved between places in the table.
This encourages teams to play for a point.
		
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Stu's got it spot on, you's were pish, nothing to do with Soton's game plan, how come we haven't heard the same complaints form any other team in the top 6 this season, fact is other teams are exploiting your weakness.
Your better than us and deserve top 4 this season (I fully agree the table doesn't lie) but I think you've got to past this expectation of teams being intimidated by fortress analfield,


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## Tashyboy (May 8, 2017)

Fish 
Quote,
This summer will be interesting to see how some clubs react to winning through to the CL and see how much they strengthen there squads and see what players (and manager/s) go and who comes in.

If the top four finish as they are.chelsea spuds and City will strengthen to try and do well in or win the champs league. Liverpool for me need to strengthen to stay in the top four for next season never mind do well in the champs league.. If Coutinho leaves he is a massive player to replace.


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## Fish (May 8, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			If the top four finish as they are.chelsea spuds and City will strengthen to try and do well in or win the champs league. Liverpool for me need to strengthen to stay in the top four for next season never mind do well in the champs league.. If Coutinho leaves he is a massive player to replace.[/COLOR]
		
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Which is my point, I don't think they can or will do both if they qualify, in fact I have reservations they'll do either that much whether they qualify or not!


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 8, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Fish 
Quote,
This summer will be interesting to see how some clubs react to winning through to the CL and see how much they strengthen there squads and see what players (and manager/s) go and who comes in.

If the top four finish as they are.chelsea spuds and City will strengthen to try and do well in or win the champs league. Liverpool for me need to strengthen to stay in the top four for next season never mind do well in the champs league.. If Coutinho leaves he is a massive player to replace.

Click to expand...

I think some believe Spurs will sell their best and fade! plus LPool being back were they belong blah: :blah players will be falling over themselves to join them as they stride to a PL and CL double under klippetty.
I think that's the plan


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## davemc1 (May 8, 2017)

Funny how all yours saying we're not good enough, there's only Southampton that have beaten us. That one trick sure has a lot of yous flummoxed...


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 8, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			Funny how all yours saying we're not good enough, there's only Southampton that have beaten us. That one trick sure has a lot of yous flummoxed...
		
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No, apart from Stu, the rest are dellusional


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## davemc1 (May 8, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			No, apart from Stu, the rest are dellusional 

Click to expand...

That comment makes as much sense as playing a load of kids in a derby :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 8, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			That comment makes as much sense as playing a load of kids in a derby :rofl:
		
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How did you get on in the FA Cup if it's only Soton who have beaten you's


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## davemc1 (May 8, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			How did you get on in the FA Cup if it's only Soton who have beaten you's 

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Are you drunk? Re-read my original comment. What Wolves fan has come on here saying Liverpool arnt good enough?


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 8, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			Are you drunk? Re-read my original comment. What Wolves fan has come on here saying Liverpool arnt good enough?
		
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Well if you post without reference soft lad how are we meant to know what you're replying to!
We're not mind readers. You also said yous, there's only one Soton fan.


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## Papas1982 (May 8, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Well if you post without reference soft lad how are we meant to know what you're replying to!
*We're not mind readers. You also said yous, there's only one Soton fan. *

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Hey we have more than that! 

I mean we might not be able to fill a council stadium. But we get a lot more than the 15k that used to go to the Dell


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 8, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			[/B]

Hey we have more than that! 

I mean we might not be able to fill a council stadium. But we get a lot more than the 15k that used to go to the Dell 

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Never seen 2 in a room


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## Fish (May 8, 2017)

Tonight's predictions, what are they?

The mighty Boro can't lose or it's curtains, so do they come and park the bus giving themselves a slim hope if they can scab a draw to fight another day, or do they come out all guns blazing looking for a win and go down fighting with some pride. 

Scores on the doors.........


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## Pin-seeker (May 8, 2017)

Fish said:



			Tonight's predictions, what are they?

The mighty Boro can't lose or it's curtains, so do they come and park the bus giving themselves a slim hope if they can scab a draw to fight another day, or do they come out all guns blazing looking for a win and go down fighting with some pride. 

Scores on the doors.........
		
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3-0 and never break sweat &#128513;


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## Fish (May 8, 2017)

Not sure what Pullis will learn from watching this, it's almost a training ground match, we're just camped on their 18 yard box looking for gaps and runners. 

Baggies away then Watford & Sunderland at home, it was always a comfortable run in. 

And to think our star player isn't even on the pitch. .


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## Tashyboy (May 8, 2017)

Fish said:



			Not sure what Pullis will learn from watching this, it's almost a training ground match, we're just camped on their 18 yard box looking for gaps and runners. 

Baggies away then Watford & Sunderland at home, it was always a comfortable run in. 

And to think our star player isn't even on the pitch. .
		
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What there's no ref for this game?


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## Pin-seeker (May 8, 2017)

Boro are shocking. 
No quality & no fight.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 8, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Boro are shocking. 
No quality & no fight.
		
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Chelsea haven't even got out of first gear. You'd think Boro would put bodies on the line to get something from tonight but they just seem happy to sit back and soak pressure. Hardly creating and a rather sad way for the fans to see them go down.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 8, 2017)

Like Conte more and more every time I see him, just watched him going to the Boro players to shake their  hands then up to the Boro fans to applaud them.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 8, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Like Conte more and more every time I see him, just watched him going to the Boro players to shake their  hands then up to the Boro fans to applaud them.
		
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Fine gesture.


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## clubchamp98 (May 8, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			No, apart from Stu, the rest are dellusional 

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I don't like Klopp
We are lucky to be where we are.
Cant see any plan B.
Fortress Anfield ended 20 odd years ago .
How is that delusional?


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## The Evertonian (May 8, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			I don't like Klopp
We are lucky to be where we are.
Cant see any plan B.
Fortress Anfield ended 20 odd years ago .
How is that delusional?
		
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Very refreshing...you wanna be careful, there'll be bullets in the post if you carry on talking like that &#128514;


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## clubchamp98 (May 8, 2017)

The Evertonian said:



			Very refreshing...you wanna be careful, there'll be bullets in the post if you carry on talking like that &#62978;
		
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Not really .
we have never won the prem.
we are only 4th because others are worse than us.
I know lads who love Klopp but I don't that's just my opinion.


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## Stuart_C (May 8, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not really .
we have never won the prem.
we are only 4th because others are worse than us.
I know lads who love Klopp but I don't that's just my opinion.
		
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You're entitled to your opinion, but what did you expect from him and that squad this season?


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## Fish (May 8, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			You're entitled to your opinion, but what did you expect from him and that squad this season?
		
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But he joined you at the back of 2015 didn't he, so he's had 3 transfer windows I think  to date and so it's essentially his team/squad now isn't it?


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## Stuart_C (May 8, 2017)

Fish said:



			But he joined you at the back of 2015 didn't he, so he's had 3 transfer windows I think  to date and so it's essentially his team/squad now isn't it?
		
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He came in mid October 2015, he couldn't have assessed the squad properly in 2months when we were almost playing 2 games a week with Europa and carling cup games.

He's bought 6 players ( Matip Free, Mane Â£34m, Wijnaldum Â£25m, Grujic Â£5m, klavan Â£4m kariusÂ£4.7m) and sold Â£61m worth of players, it's hardly his squad. We haven't bought anyone in the two January windows which I sort of agree with because unless you're bringing in exactly who you want then it could be an expensive mistake. See Andy Carrol.

Klopp is not  untouchable and he has made mistakes but doesn't every manager? 

You said logically with that squad we're the 6th best squad at best, we're sitting 4th regardless of anything else it's an improvement on the past few seasons. 

I personally would rather win silverware than finish 4th and I've said it for a good few years. 

Ive questioned the owners in regards to backing the manager and getting the right players in and I think this summer the manager needs properly backing.


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## Pin-seeker (May 9, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			3-0 and never break sweat &#128513;
		
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Didn't back it &#128530;


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## User62651 (May 9, 2017)

Where does Conte rank in the league table of managers currently actively coaching? Think he's right up in the top 2 or 3 coaches about in terms of desirability. Having already managed 5 clubs in SerieA winning 3 times with Juve and in EPL successfully (well almost!) and internationally with Italy again fairly successfully just wonder in 3 or 4 years time if he can win a Champions League in that time where he can go from Chelsea - only Madrid or Barca would be a possible club step up but they win so much already it's hard to make your mark there. Would he go back to an international managers job - England maybe. At 47 he has achieved a lot in football management already.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 9, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Where does Conte rank in the league table of managers currently actively coaching? Think he's right up in the top 2 or 3 coaches about in terms of desirability. Having already managed 5 clubs in SerieA winning 3 times with Juve and in EPL successfully (well almost!) and internationally with Italy again fairly successfully just wonder in 3 or 4 years time if he can win a Champions League in that time where he can go from Chelsea - only Madrid or Barca would be a possible club step up but they win so much already it's hard to make your mark there. Would he go back to an international managers job - England maybe. At 47 he has achieved a lot in football management already.
		
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I rate him very highly, but he did inherit a very good squad that he added to with a couple of great buys, how much impact not playing european football helped this year I'm not sure, next season will be more of a challenge, he may lose a couple of players and who he gets in will be very interesting, if he keeps Costa and strengthens the squad I can see them challenging for the CL trophy.
Also expect City and Utd to be closer to them points wise next season.


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## clubchamp98 (May 9, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			You're entitled to your opinion, but what did you expect from him and that squad this season?
		
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Nothing! We are where we are because the quality of teams under us is very poor.


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## Stuart_C (May 9, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Nothing! We are where we are because the quality of teams under us is very poor.
		
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Chelsea are where they are because the teams under them are poor?? That's football.

You must've had some expectations of Klopp and Liverpool this season?

You've moaned he's played the kids in cup, you've moaned because he hasn't give the kids a go in defence, and yet you expected nothing from him and that squad?


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## Fish (May 10, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



 

Chelsea are where they are because the teams under them are poor??
		
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Nah, we're on track for 90 points, the title can be won from anything between the low, mid to high 80's in general, so it would take something pretty special IMO for 2 teams to be pushing into the 90 points region.

However, from 3rd to 6th is very different, the amount of draws and losses to teams that for those clubs should really have been bankers was widespread amongst them, otherwise the breakaway of 3 or more clubs would have become very evident.

For the neutral it was, and still is tight and exciting amongst those teams battling it out for CL places.

I know and accept its all 'what if's', but there is and should be an air of expectancy from certain clubs/teams and all of those between 3rd and 6th I think have fallen well below that and all should have done a lot better, and some will next season.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 10, 2017)

Fish said:



			Nah, we're on track for 90 points, the title can be won from anything between the low, mid to high 80's in general, so it would take something pretty special IMO for 2 teams to be pushing into the 90 points region.

However, from 3rd to 6th is very different, the amount of draws and losses to teams that for those clubs should really have been bankers was widespread amongst them, otherwise the breakaway of 3 or more clubs would have become very evident.

For the neutral it was, and still is tight and exciting amongst those teams battling it out for CL places.

I know and accept its all 'what if's', but there is and should be an air of expectancy from certain clubs/teams and all of those between 3rd and 6th I think have fallen well below that and all should have done a lot better, and some will next season.
		
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Robin, given last season and the problems yous had, did you genuinely believe Chelsea would be so far ahead this season?

I expected them to be there or there about, but l think Conte has surprised everyone.


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## Stuart_C (May 10, 2017)

Conte definitely deserves praise but the players need to be questioned because they're a complete different set of players than last year.


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## fundy (May 10, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Conte definitely deserves praise but the players need to be questioned because they're a complete different set of players than last year.
		
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same set of players pretty much that were by far the best team in the prem 2 years ago that downed tools last year, the "problem" was removed and theyre back as they were 2 years ago (obviously the addition of Kante helps)


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## Lord Tyrion (May 10, 2017)

Stu - Is that not management though? Same can be said for Leicester. One manager clicks with their players. Another does not or they act in a way that loses the players. Looking at Mourinho this year and the way he is singling out players at Utd does it surprise you that players were not fully tuned it at Chelsea last year? Conte comes in with a new ethic, inspires the players and suddenly they find that extra 5%. The margins at the top are small and that 5% makes all the difference.


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## Stuart_C (May 10, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Stu - Is that not management though? Same can be said for Leicester. One manager clicks with their players. Another does not or they act in a way that loses the players. Looking at Mourinho this year and the way he is singling out players at Utd does it surprise you that players were not fully tuned it at Chelsea last year? Conte comes in with a new ethic, inspires the players and suddenly they find that extra 5%. The margins at the top are small and that 5% makes all the difference.
		
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Possibly, but those players are top international players who you'd expect to be able to pull their finger out when the going gets tough. Last season for at least half of it they never.  Running that little bit harder, going that extra yard etc.

It's too easy to blame the manager when it's not going well, it's all about responsibility. Can all of those players last season actually look themselves in the mirror and say they gave it their best most weeks?


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## Stuart_C (May 10, 2017)

fundy said:



			same set of players pretty much that were by far the best team in the prem 2 years ago that downed tools last year, the "problem" was removed and theyre back as they were 2 years ago (obviously the addition of Kante helps)
		
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I agree the additions have helped, Hazard is a complete different player this season. OK he may have had an injury but the point remains.

The problem may have been the manager but those players performances where abject at best.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 10, 2017)

In the past managers had total control at a club, total control over players. Different world now and managers have to man manage as well as know about the game itself. Different skills and some are better than others. Mourinho for example has players for a short period but then soon hacks off too many and moves on. Happened throughout his career. Conte and Klopp both seem to inspire their players. It doesn't mean they will always win but they generally get maximum effort out of their players. 

The psychology of the individual is massive and if a player is unhappy at work due to the manager then inevitably they will not play at 100%. You put effort in out of your own pride but that extra % you need to really make a difference comes from wanting to play and impress the boss. It's that run through a wall desire.


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## clubchamp98 (May 10, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



 

Chelsea are where they are because the teams under them are poor?? That's football.

You must've had some expectations of Klopp and Liverpool this season?

You've moaned he's played the kids in cup, you've moaned because he hasn't give the kids a go in defence, and yet you expected nothing from him and that squad?
		
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what I said was he should have one reserve team player to play in defence with some pace instead of Lucas.
He totally exposed the Young players in the cup to many changes he surrendered a place in the cup final.
One or two tops is not going to upset the team.
Klopps way of playing is good with a full team but has no plan B for when we are down with injuries.
We have lost to many games we should have won.
His post Mach comments are bizarre " pitch to dry " really.


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## Stuart_C (May 10, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			what I said was he should have one reserve team player to play in defence with some pace instead of Lucas.
He totally exposed the Young players in the cup to many changes he surrendered a place in the cup final.
One or two tops is not going to upset the team.
Klopps way of playing is good with a full team but has no plan B for when we are down with injuries.
We have lost to many games we should have won.
His post Mach comments are bizarre " pitch to dry " really.
		
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This is exactly what you said 



clubchamp98 said:



			It's the same players making the same mistakes all season but apart from Lucas they are first team regulars.
Klopp put all his eggs in one basket last year in the Europa final when this went tits up we could not attract top players I.e. No CL .
The way we are going now I can see the same thing happening again.
_*Klopp is the Manager if the players don't do as he says for set pieces play some of the reserves who WILL.*_
Thats why I think he is responsible after all he is the Manager buck stops at the top.
		
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Looking back at the injuries and how the squad was in January I thought playing the kids was the right thing to do. It was the 4th round not the demo's so he's hardly surrendered a place in the cup final.

Let's be brutally honest here, that squad is not strong enough to cope with a season. Injuries happen to every side and whilst the other teams can still put a decent side together we can't and that's not the fault of Klopp. 

He's given the young lads a go and you've criticized him. I really don't know what you expect from him and that team?

No wonder we get called delusional.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 10, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			This is exactly what you said 



Looking back at the injuries and how the squad was in January I thought playing the kids was the right thing to do. It was the 4th round not the demo's so he's hardly surrendered a place in the cup final.

Let's be brutally honest here, that squad is not strong enough to cope with a season. Injuries happen to every side and whilst the other teams can still put a decent side together we can't and that's not the fault of Klopp. 

He's given the young lads a go and you've criticized him. I really don't know what you expect from him and that team?

No wonder we get called delusional.
		
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Who calls you delusional mate, way out of order that :rofl:


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## clubchamp98 (May 10, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			This is exactly what you said 



Looking back at the injuries and how the squad was in January I thought playing the kids was the right thing to do. It was the 4th round not the demo's so he's hardly surrendered a place in the cup final.

Let's be brutally honest here, that squad is not strong enough to cope with a season. Injuries happen to every side and whilst the other teams can still put a decent side together we can't and that's not the fault of Klopp. 

He's given the young lads a go and you've criticized him. I really don't know what you expect from him and that team?

No wonder we get called delusional.
		
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You are entitled to YOUR opinion mine is different .
As I have said I don't like him or his methods .
We should be able to see a game out (Palace ) when we go one up.
Southampton game Sturridge is warming the bench for 70 mins it was so poor.
Can and Loukas at home Llalana on bench for 70 mins ?
The one man ( Sturidge)who can beat someone and score when they sit with two banks of four is on the bench.
If he is on the bench he should be fit to play.
I just don't rate him what can I say!!!?
If you can't get past the fourth round you will not win the cup.


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## Stuart_C (May 10, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			You are entitled to YOUR opinion mine is different .
As I have said I don't like him or his methods .
We should be able to see a game out (Palace ) when we go one up.
Southampton game Sturridge is warming the bench for 70 mins it was so poor.
Can and Loukas at home Llalana on bench for 70 mins ?
The one man ( Sturidge)who can beat someone and score when they sit with two banks of four is on the bench.
If he is on the bench he should be fit to play.
I just don't rate him what can I say!!!?
If you can't get past the fourth round you will not win the cup.
		
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I don't have a problem with your opinion, I'm just trying to understand what you expected from him and that squad? 

You've obviously seen enough to write him off after 18months with a very average squad.

I agree the defending has been woeful at times but it's mainly down to individual errors, like the 2 against palace from Lovren,as opposed to coaching.

Who would have instead of him?


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## Pin-seeker (May 10, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I don't have a problem with your opinion, I'm just trying to understand what you expected from him and that squad? 

You've obviously seen enough to write him off after 18months with a very average squad.

I agree the defending has been woeful at times but it's mainly down to individual errors, like the 2 against palace from Lovren,as opposed to coaching.

Who would have instead of him?
		
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What do you put down to struggling against the lesser teams down to? 
That's not the squad. 
Poor tactics?


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## Tashyboy (May 10, 2017)

Well that's made it very interesting in Madrid, very interesting


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## Pin-seeker (May 10, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Well that's made it very interesting in Madrid, very interesting
		
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Hasn't it just. 
Still fancy Real tho.


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## Tashyboy (May 10, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Hasn't it just. 
Still fancy Real tho.
		
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Watched Juve last night and they looked really well balanced between having to defend and attack. They were saying that Real Madrid will turn them over In The final. Two things spring to mind.
1, will they even get there.
2, if they play like they are doing at the moment, they won't turn Juve over.


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## Pin-seeker (May 10, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Watched Juve last night and they looked really well balanced between having to defend and attack. They were saying that Real Madrid will turn them over In The final. Two things spring to mind.
1, will they even get there.
2, if they play like they are doing at the moment, they won't turn Juve over.
		
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I backed Chelsea to win Prem,Real to win CL double. 
IF they get to the final I think I'll be having a few quid on Juve.


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## pendodave (May 10, 2017)

Loving the ref booking the wavers of imaginary cards after every tackle. Wish they'd do it here.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 10, 2017)

That RM goal so vital and I can't see Atletico getting three in the second half. Nor can I see it finishing with the full compliment of players


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## Fish (May 10, 2017)

60 minutes and 1 shot on target and 1 goal, what will Arsenal do without Sanchez next season &#129300;&#128540;


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## USER1999 (May 10, 2017)

Fish said:



			60 minutes and 1 shot on target and 1 goal, what will Arsenal do without Sanchez next season &#129300;&#128540;
		
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Dont care. He isnt the main issue. Frankly, i dont care who goes or who stays, its same old anyway. I still think that the srse have some fantastic players. Wenger aside, i think the main issue is the lack of a transfer policy. I think there is a shot gun approach of just buying players who are available, and retaining players, without a structure as to how they will fit into a way of playing. Arsenal could happily field a team of 11 centre midfielders, at least 9 of whom would be out of position. It would not stop them from buying another cm in the summer.


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## clubchamp98 (May 10, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I don't have a problem with your opinion, I'm just trying to understand what you expected from him and that squad? 

You've obviously seen enough to write him off after 18months with a very average squad.

I agree the defending has been woeful at times but it's mainly down to individual errors, like the 2 against palace from Lovren,as opposed to coaching.

Who would have instead of him?
		
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Klop was getting all the praise when we were winning.
The real test of the manager is when you DO have a depleted squad.
The playing of Lucas as a holding player at home when the opposition don't even come out of their own half and hit on the break with pace.
Thats why I said play one of the reserves with some pace to cover Lovren and Matip who are slow by prem standards.
The set piece defending is whoeful but it's not just defenders we put all 11 men in the box.
We are so narrow going forward it's easy to defend against , but Klopp just wants to argue with the fourth official most of the time.
Not just last game this has been going on for weeks.
I think our opinion of Klopp is so far apart we won't see eye to eye I just don't think he is the answer.


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## fundy (May 10, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Dont care. He isnt the main issue. Frankly, i dont care who goes or who stays, its same old anyway. I still think that the srse have some fantastic players. Wenger aside, i think the main issue is the lack of a transfer policy. I think there is a shot gun approach of just buying players who are available, and retaining players, without a structure as to how they will fit into a way of playing. *Arsenal could happily field a team of 11 centre midfielders*, at least 9 of whom would be out of position. It would not stop them from buying another cm in the summer.
		
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shame weve not fielded one worth having for most of this season!


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## HomerJSimpson (May 11, 2017)

United one up on the night. Not looking 100% in control but at least it forces Celta to score twice.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 11, 2017)

Game on


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## Junior (May 12, 2017)

17000 tickets for the Europa final already pre sold via ballot to 'neutral' fans via the UEFA website......10000 to sponsors and 8000 each to Man U and Ajax. Looks like the touts are going to make a wedge.  Well done UEFA.


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## Liverbirdie (May 12, 2017)

Junior said:



			17000 tickets for the Europa final already pre sold via ballot to 'neutral' fans via the UEFA website......10000 to sponsors and 8000 each to Man U and Ajax. Looks like the touts are going to make a wedge.  Well done UEFA.
		
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Shocking isn't it mate, and its the same every year.

Why is it in a sub-50,00 stadium also? There are enough 60,000 plus stadiums in Europe to be able to hold the Europa.

The CL should always in a 65k plus stadium, and the Europa in the same. The clubs need to get together and sort out this "UEFA family" and get it down to 10% to UEFA and their hangers on.

I was lucky in our ballot for Switzerland last year.


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## Junior (May 12, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Shocking isn't it mate, and its the same every year.

Why is it in a sub-50,00 stadium also? There are enough 60,000 plus stadiums in Europe to be able to hold the Europa.

The CL should always in a 65k plus stadium, and the Europa in the same. The clubs need to get together and sort out this "UEFA family" and get it down to 10% to UEFA and their hangers on.

I was lucky in our ballot for Switzerland last year.
		
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Season tickets only in the ballot too.  Members without season tickets are not allowed to apply.  Which i guess is fair given the money they spend.  I know people (members not season ticket holders) who have been to every euro match this year but will still travel in the hope of getting a ticket from a tout.  Travelling around Europe following Man U is like what golf is to us.....it's their main hobby.  They make a short break of it spending a few days in a European city etc. 

I get the need to keep sponsors sweet but why pre sell more than twice as many tickets than your giving to both fans combined?  All your going to get is thousands and thousands of fans travelling without tickets and the touts making a wedge.


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## Liverbirdie (May 12, 2017)

Junior said:



			Season tickets only in the ballot too.  Members without season tickets are not allowed to apply.  Which i guess is fair given the money they spend.  I know people (members not season ticket holders) who have been to every euro match this year but will still travel in the hope of getting a ticket from a tout.  Travelling around Europe following Man U is like what golf is to us.....it's their main hobby.  They make a short break of it spending a few days in a European city etc. 

I get the need to keep sponsors sweet but why pre sell more than twice as many tickets than your giving to both fans combined?  All your going to get is thousands and thousands of fans travelling without tickets and the touts making a wedge.
		
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I hear you mate.

Funnily enough we've been doing it for years and get called whinging scousers.......

It is a hobby/obsession. After me arl fella took me to Rome (1984) and Heysel (1985) at the age of 13 and 14, it really gave me a taste for it, especially with the six year ban, so when we got back in I sacked off the London games and went all over Europe with the reds. 30 times at least, and had some great times. We also mainly used to go for 2-4 days, as the flight prices came down to a sensible level then, and it also gave us time to take in a bit of that city's culture, rather than just spending all of it in an Irish bar.I'd also dip in and out if I could but hard getting back on the bandwagon, as don't have many other "credits", apart from being a season ticket holder.

I always think the season ticket holders should be a priority, but any "member" who goes to 2 European aways should get a final ticket.

The only way to enforce change is the main clubs getting together and insisting that the finals are in bigger stadia, and the tickets are split 40% per club, and 20% for UEFA, sponsors etc. I wouldn't hold my breath, though.


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## Papas1982 (May 12, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			I hear you mate.

Funnily enough we've been doing it for years and get called whinging scousers.......

It is a hobby/obsession. After me arl fella took me to Rome (1984) and Heysel (1985) at the age of 13 and 14, it really gave me a taste for it, especially with the six year ban, so when we got back in I sacked off the London games and went all over Europe with the reds. 30 times at least, and had some great times. We also mainly used to go for 2-4 days, as the flight prices came down to a sensible level then, and it also gave us time to take in a bit of that city's culture, rather than just spending all of it in an Irish bar.I'd also dip in and out if I could but hard getting back on the bandwagon, as don't have many other "credits", apart from being a season ticket holder.

I always think the season ticket holders should be a priority, but any "member" who goes to 2 European aways should get a final ticket.

The only way to enforce change is the main clubs getting together and insisting that the finals are in bigger stadia, and the tickets are split 40% per club, and 20% for UEFA, sponsors etc. I wouldn't hold my breath, though.
		
Click to expand...

As a saints fan I've never had to suffer this. 

Although the odd cup final of late has given me a taste of the frustration. 

Unfortunatley I don't see the clubs doing anything about it. The financial prizes on offer far outway the extra they'd make from a few extra seats sold so I doubt any big cub wants to upset the apple cart. 

Would love to see see it happen, but when FIFA or UEFA are involved I don't see any sort of morale decision being made. 

Slight side note, but as Rules have now changed. Would supporters of the bigger clubs still prefer to miss out on Thursday night. Or is the CL carrot enough to make you put up with it?


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 12, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			As a saints fan I've never had to suffer this. 

Although the odd cup final of late has given me a taste of the frustration. 

Unfortunatley I don't see the clubs doing anything about it. The financial prizes on offer far outway the extra they'd make from a few extra seats sold so I doubt any big cub wants to upset the apple cart. 

Would love to see see it happen, but when FIFA or UEFA are involved I don't see any sort of morale decision being made. 

Slight side note, but as Rules have now changed. Would supporters of the bigger clubs still prefer to miss out on Thursday night. Or is the CL carrot enough to make you put up with it?
		
Click to expand...



Sod off you, I only popped in for one question. 

Ask a bigger club supporter anyway.


----------



## Junior (May 12, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			I hear you mate.

Funnily enough we've been doing it for years and get called whinging scousers.......

It is a hobby/obsession. After me arl fella took me to Rome (1984) and Heysel (1985) at the age of 13 and 14, it really gave me a taste for it, especially with the six year ban, so when we got back in I sacked off the London games and went all over Europe with the reds. 30 times at least, and had some great times. We also mainly used to go for 2-4 days, as the flight prices came down to a sensible level then, and it also gave us time to take in a bit of that city's culture, rather than just spending all of it in an Irish bar.I'd also dip in and out if I could but hard getting back on the bandwagon, as don't have many other "credits", apart from being a season ticket holder.

I always think the season ticket holders should be a priority, but any "member" who goes to 2 European aways should get a final ticket.

The only way to enforce change is the main clubs getting together and insisting that the finals are in bigger stadia, and the tickets are split 40% per club, and 20% for UEFA, sponsors etc. I wouldn't hold my breath, though.
		
Click to expand...

:thup:  Yip, exactly right.  But then how would UEFA ensure they can get higher Â£Â£Â£Â£ for the tickets they pre-sell


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## Papas1982 (May 12, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Sod off you, I only popped in for one question. 

Ask a bigger club supporter anyway.



Click to expand...

Haven't noticed any tranmere fans on here &#128540;


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## Pin-seeker (May 12, 2017)

:whoo::whoo::whoo:


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## Lord Tyrion (May 12, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			:whoo::whoo::whoo:
		
Click to expand...

Very kind but beating Watford isn't really that big a deal &#128513;


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## Stuart_C (May 12, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Very kind but beating Watford isn't really that big a deal &#128513;
		
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Did Lukaku play


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## Pin-seeker (May 12, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Very kind but beating Watford isn't really that big a deal &#128513;
		
Click to expand...

&#128514;&#128514; a wins a win pal &#128077;&#127995;


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## Pin-seeker (May 12, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Did Lukaku play 

Click to expand...

Remember when Liverpool celebrated at West Brom like this? 
&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## davemc1 (May 12, 2017)

fair play to Chelsea, best team in this league by far.


not sure I'd be celebrating winning the league on a golf forum though :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 12, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Did Lukaku play 

Click to expand...

Still obsessed la :rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (May 12, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			fair play to Chelsea, best team in this league by far.


not sure I'd be celebrating winning the league on a golf forum though :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

How'd you know? Was the tinternet around when Liverpool last won't the league??


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 12, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			fair play to Chelsea, best team in this league by far.


I'm sure we celebrated winning the league on a golf forum in November though 

Click to expand...

Fixed it for ya :whoo:


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## BristolMike (May 12, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			How'd you know? Was the tinternet around when Liverpool last won't the league??
		
Click to expand...

Internet.....I don't even think colour TV was


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## Stuart_C (May 12, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			fair play to Chelsea, best team in this league by far.


*not sure I'd be celebrating winning the league on a golf forum though *:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

That's the problem with being an armchair fan of a club over 150 miles away.

Chelsea won the league and theyre talking about us :rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (May 12, 2017)

Scousers so so bitter &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Stuart_C (May 12, 2017)

[



pauldj42 said:



			Still obsessed la :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Not obsessed, just curious :ears:


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## davemc1 (May 12, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Fixed it for ya :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

is that the only thing you've got? cos it's all you spout on about.

plus, is it one of them things if you say enough times you believe it as truth


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## Liverbirdie (May 12, 2017)

Congratulations to Chelsea.

A very efficient league win, with a good few flashes of brilliance thrown in. Fully deserving champions.


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## Fish (May 13, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Congratulations to Chelsea.

A very efficient league win, with a good few flashes of brilliance thrown in. Fully deserving champions.
		
Click to expand...

Now this is a post a lot of people on here could learn from, a simple straight batting acknowledgement with no other agenda or extra unecessay comment to undo the sentiment. 

Thanks Peter&#128077;


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## Blue in Munich (May 13, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Congratulations to Chelsea.

A very efficient league win, with a good few flashes of brilliance thrown in. Fully deserving champions.
		
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Fish said:



			Now this is a post a lot of people on here could learn from, a simple straight batting acknowledgement with no other agenda or extra unecessay comment to undo the sentiment. 

Thanks Peter&#62541;
		
Click to expand...

Can only second Robin's comments, but then you'd expect nothing less from Peter. Thank you mate. :cheers:


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## Jensen (May 13, 2017)

Yes congratulations Chelsea, as I previously said I was resigned to them winning the league.
What's impressed me most is Conte, new country, new league and new team, that takes some doing in your first season.
So well done.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 13, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			is that the only thing you've got? cos it's all you spout on about.

plus, is it one of them things if you say enough times you believe it as truth
		
Click to expand...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## Fish (May 13, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Yes congratulations Chelsea, as I previously said I was resigned to them winning the league.
What's impressed me most is Conte, new country, new league and new team, that takes some doing in your first season.
So well done.
		
Click to expand...

It's going to be interesting to see how well he rotates the players and squad with CL in the mix season. 

There's no doubt we will strengthen with that in mind.


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## anotherdouble (May 13, 2017)

Fish said:



			It's going to be interesting to see how well he rotates the players and squad with CL in the mix season. 

There's no doubt we will strengthen with that in mind.
		
Click to expand...

I think he definitely needs to. I don't think we have a very strong bench to do battle with the very best European sides along side a tough domestic challenge


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## Hobbit (May 13, 2017)

Jensen said:



			Yes congratulations Chelsea, as I previously said I was resigned to them winning the league.
What's impressed me most is Conte, new country, new league and new team, that takes some doing in your first season.
So well done.
		
Click to expand...


But we've heard time and again that new managers need at least a couple of seasons to acclimatise.... is that the sound of horse's hooves in the distance? Klippity Kloop. Klippity Kloop.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 13, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Did Lukaku play 

Click to expand...

No need to break sweat and get injured. His monster transfer fee is already lined up. He left the stage open for Barkley so he either signs, hopefully, or he adds another few Â£m's on his fee. Job done ðŸ˜ðŸ’°ðŸ’°ðŸ˜.

Next year is going to be fascinating. Chelsea will be there or there about, they look too powerful and together not to be. City should address the mess at the back and be a threat and Spurs will hopefully keep up their form, Wembley withstanding. I think Liverpool are not close enough yet but could just be two players away from unlocking their challenge. Should be a strong season.


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## clubchamp98 (May 13, 2017)

Well done Chealsea , best football consistently all season.


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## Papas1982 (May 13, 2017)

Just seen on sky that Chelsea only 3rd favs next season. 

Id make city favs. But chelsea after that surely?

A great season for Chelsea and credit to conte for getting his system to work. A shame that footballers again show that they have the power though with the last two seasons champions getting their managers sacked by not putting the effort in.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 13, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Just seen on sky that Chelsea only 3rd favs next season. 

Id make city favs. But chelsea after that surely?

A great season for Chelsea and credit to conte for getting his system to work. A shame that footballers again show that they have the power though with the last two seasons champions getting their managers sacked by not putting the effort in.
		
Click to expand...

If that's true, that's very disrespectful to both Conte and Chelsea imo, even if they lose a couple of players I can only see Conte making them stronger, been saying for months him and Chelsea have been by far the best team in the PL.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 13, 2017)

City need a keeper, two full backs and a centre half. They have to bed in. Chelsea need no one but may have to replace Costa if he goes to China, at which point they will have their pick of the best in Europe. How on earth can city be ahead of them in the betting &#128565;?


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## Papas1982 (May 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			If that's true, that's very disrespectful to both Conte and Chelsea imo, even if they lose a couple of players I can only see Conte making them stronger, been saying for months him and Chelsea have been by far the best team in the PL.
		
Click to expand...

City 9/4 favs. 

Utd and Chelsea both around 10/3 with different bookies. 

I can understand city being favs tbh. Chelsea have had no European football and that is always a distraction. Plus lots of talk about hazard and Costa being off. Even conte too. 

I think the chelsea of this season have been superb. But it's realistic to question how they will do next year with changed squad and Europe.


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## Papas1982 (May 13, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			City need a keeper, two full backs and a centre half. They have to bed in. Chelsea need no one but may have to replace Costa if he goes to China, at which point they will have their pick of the best in Europe. How on earth can city be ahead of them in the betting &#63029;?
		
Click to expand...

Well I imagine bookies expect city to make those signings. So have priced accordingly. Don't get me wrong if I was betting I'd take the odds on Chelsea. 

But imo I think next season will be a lot closer.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 13, 2017)

I agree that city will splash the cash but if you are replacing 4 of the back 5 then it is delusional to think they will gel straight away. 1 or 2 maybe but it will practically be an entirely new defence. That is some ask.


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## Pin-seeker (May 13, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			City 9/4 favs. 

Utd and Chelsea both around 10/3 with different bookies. 

I can understand city being favs tbh. Chelsea have had no European football and that is always a distraction. Plus lots of talk about hazard and Costa being off. Even conte too. 

I think the chelsea of this season have been superb. But it's realistic to question how they will do next year with changed squad and Europe.
		
Click to expand...

UTD 2nd fav after City with skybet. 
The current UTD squad is shocking.
How many UTD players would get in the Chelsea squad? 
They need to spend some serious cash to challenge next season.


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## Pin-seeker (May 13, 2017)

And Rashford isn't good enough either. 
Over hyped young British "talent"


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## ColchesterFC (May 13, 2017)

Fish said:



			It's going to be interesting to see how well he rotates the players and squad with CL in the mix season. 

There's no doubt we will strengthen with that in mind.
		
Click to expand...




anotherdouble said:



			I think he definitely needs to. I don't think we have a very strong bench to do battle with the very best European sides along side a tough domestic challenge
		
Click to expand...

Saw a stat that said Chelsea had only made 38 changes to their starting XI this season (I think that is PL games only). That was being compared to the two Manchester clubs who had made more than 100 changes each. Will be interesting to see how Conte deals with the added games next season.

Can't find the link to the article I read but this one is from 11th April at which point they'd only made 31 changes......

http://talksport.com/football/premi...e-has-made-most-alterations-their-line-season


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## Tashyboy (May 13, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			And Rashford isn't good enough either. 
Over hyped young British "talent"
		
Click to expand...

As a city fan it kills me but Rashford isn't overrated, his problem can be summed up in one word. Mouriniho. When was the last time he improved a player.


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## Pin-seeker (May 13, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			As a city fan it kills me but Rashford isn't overrated, his problem can be summed up in one word. Mouriniho. When was the last time he improved a player.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe I've just seen his poorer performances then.


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## Slime (May 13, 2017)

As a Utd fan I can't think of many Prem forwards I'd swap him for.


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## ColchesterFC (May 13, 2017)

Slime said:



			As a Utd fan I can't think of many Prem forwards I'd swap him for.
		
Click to expand...

Lukaku?
Costa?
Kane?
Sanchez?
Aguero?
Giroud?

OK, the last one isn't a serious suggestion but would be interested if you'd take any of the others if you were offered a straight swap deal.


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## fundy (May 13, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Lukaku?
Costa?
Kane?
Sanchez?
Aguero?
Giroud?

OK, the last one isn't a serious suggestion but would be interested if you'd take any of the others if you were offered a straight swap deal.
		
Click to expand...

as an arsenal fan ill drop giroud up there if im picking up rashford


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## fundy (May 13, 2017)

football showing how far behind the times it is with video replays again I see as Crouch punches one home


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## USER1999 (May 13, 2017)

Arsenal doing ok at Stoke though. 4 goals to 1 dirty one. I would take that today. Why have they not played like this all season?


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## fundy (May 13, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Arsenal doing ok at Stoke though. 4 goals to 1 dirty one. I would take that today. Why have they not played like this all season?
		
Click to expand...

eyes on the prize, 4th place to play for now!!!!!


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## davemc1 (May 13, 2017)

fundy said:



			eyes on the prize, 4th place to play for now!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Yous can pack in get results like the ones you've got in the past week! forth is back up for grabs


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## Lord Tyrion (May 13, 2017)

Have arsenal not done this for a few years now? A bit like the golfer who comes with a run in the fourth round. Never threatening to actually win but the pressure is off and so they can turn it on. If Liverpool don't beat west ham I can see arsenal pinching 4th, their last two games are simple.


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## Papas1982 (May 13, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Have arsenal not done this for a few years now? A bit like the golfer who comes with a run in the fourth round. Never threatening to actually win but the pressure is off and so they can turn it on. If Liverpool don't beat west ham I can see arsenal pinching 4th, their last two games are simple.
		
Click to expand...

My mate made that comparison a few weeks ago. Just the other way around. Comparing kuchar to Arsenal. 

In regards to Mourinho and improving players. Considering what he has won, and how he has generally done better with a club than his predecessor, I'd imagine he must improve quite a few of the squad.


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## Slime (May 13, 2017)

Slime said:



			As a Utd fan I can't think of many Prem forwards I'd swap him for.
		
Click to expand...




ColchesterFC said:



			Lukaku?
Costa?
Kane?
Sanchez?
Aguero?
Giroud?

OK, the last one isn't a serious suggestion but would be interested if you'd take any of the others if you were offered a straight swap deal.
		
Click to expand...

No
No
Probably
No
Maybe
:rofl:


----------



## fundy (May 13, 2017)

Slime said:



			No
No
Probably
No
Maybe
:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## User62651 (May 13, 2017)

Any Chelsea fans worried about the lack of English or British players in that EPL winning side? Cahill's about it and he's 31 I think. Can a top manager like Conte even think about bringing through anyone from the youth side these days or is it always going to be buy buy buy to win? 
Spurs have a good amount of home grown players but that's about it of the top 6.
Has been thus for years but not going to help international side aims/goals.

When Celtic and Rangers made both main European club comp finals in 1967 all 22 or so who played came form wthin 11 miles of centre of Glasgow. 

Suppose I'm asking do Chelsea FC actually represent the area of London they're from? With JT leaving that last London link is gone.


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## Pin-seeker (May 13, 2017)

Slime said:



			No
No
Probably
No
Maybe
:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

He will never be better than at least 4 of the players on that list


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 13, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Any Chelsea fans worried about the lack of English or British players in that EPL winning side? Cahill's about it and he's 31 I think. Can a top manager like Conte even think about bringing through anyone from the youth side these days or is it always going to be buy buy buy to win? 
Spurs have a good amount of home grown players but that's about it of the top 6.
Has been thus for years but not going to help international side aims/goals.

When Celtic and Rangers made both main European club comp finals in 1967 all 22 or so who played came form wthin 11 miles of centre of Glasgow. 

Suppose I'm asking do Chelsea FC actually represent the area of London they're from? With JT leaving that last London link is gone.
		
Click to expand...

I'd be more worried if players like Smalling,Jones,Walcott,lellana & Henderson were making the team tbh.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 13, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Any Chelsea fans worried about the lack of English or British players in that EPL winning side? Cahill's about it and he's 31 I think. Can a top manager like Conte even think about bringing through anyone from the youth side these days or is it always going to be buy buy buy to win? 
Spurs have a good amount of home grown players but that's about it of the top 6.
Has been thus for years but not going to help international side aims/goals.

When Celtic and Rangers made both main European club comp finals in 1967 all 22 or so who played came form wthin 11 miles of centre of Glasgow. 

Suppose I'm asking do Chelsea FC actually represent the area of London they're from? With JT leaving that last London link is gone.
		
Click to expand...

It's nothing new though, the Liverpool team that beat Everton in the 86 Cup Final didn't have one scouser in the first 11, they dominated English and European Football during that period and had scousers in the squad, but managers play their best 11.
Chelsea have got local lads in their squad, but the priority for all clubs is winning, not how close to the ground the players were born.
It'll be a mixture of developed and bought players for every team, but not even all the academy players are local.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 13, 2017)

Maxfli, you can bring players through, blood one at a time and let them settle in. That's down to the manager though. Chelsea keep winning youth cups but never bring anyone through. I'd like to see if Conte could change that. I don't expect him to play 4 kids at once but surely they must have someone worth playing. If they don't then what the heck is their academy about and who is running it? I do think it is important that you have some English players in the team and a local is even better. It certainly matters to fans.


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## Slime (May 13, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			He will never be better than at least 4 of the players on that list
		
Click to expand...

A. In your opinion
B. Based on what?


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## Pin-seeker (May 14, 2017)

Slime said:



			A. In your opinion
B. Based on what?
		
Click to expand...

Based on what my own eyes tell me,
rather than listening to the so called experts over hyping him because he's young and English. 
I stand to be corrected tho.


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## BristolMike (May 14, 2017)

How did West Ham not score then....


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## Fish (May 14, 2017)

Well that's pretty much secured 4th place for Liverpool as I can't see them not getting a result against relegated Boro. 

I didn't think they'd hold out, they've enjoyed some good fortune but it's a results based league and so the table doesn't lie. 

Tough gig for Utd later unless Spurs chuck in the towel now the race is over, otherwise it's 6th place for them and 5th for Arsenal who can't move anywhere with nailed on results going against them above. 

Oh well, lets all look on the bright side, Wenger will be staying for another season at least, or until he gets them back into the CL and then he'll move on &#128540; could be longer than 1 season &#128514;


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## Tashyboy (May 14, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			I'd be more worried if players like Smalling,Jones,Walcott,lellana & Henderson were making the team tbh.
		
Click to expand...

Yes
deffo yes
oh god deffo yes
No
Who


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 14, 2017)

Harry Kane would look good in a Chelsea shirt.


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## Fish (May 14, 2017)

I can't see Utd winning any of their remaining matches &#128540;


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## Slime (May 14, 2017)

Me neither. So far today they've been awful and totally rudderless.


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## Tashyboy (May 14, 2017)

Slime said:



			Me neither. So far today they've been awful and totally rudderless.
		
Click to expand...

But it has not just Been today. They were dire v City have been dire since and am asking are they the worst team ever to get to the UEFA final. Though that could actually be Rangers.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 14, 2017)

Now Utd can't get CL through league position but then qualify by winning EL plus if Chelsea win the FA Cup, will 8th and 9th in the PL get EL slots or do we lose them slots?


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## Jensen (May 14, 2017)

Fantastic atmosphere at The Lane, the fans are doing a great job at our finale.


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## Imurg (May 14, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Now Utd can't get CL through league position but then qualify by winning EL plus if Chelsea win the FA Cup, will 8th and 9th in the PL get EL slots or do we lose them slots?
		
Click to expand...

I heard that if Utd win the EL then we get 5 teams in the CL..6th and 7th get EL next year
If Utd had come 4th and won the EL then we'd only get 4..then 5th and 6th get EL.
Could be wrong but that's what I heard.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (May 14, 2017)

Imurg said:



			I heard that if Utd win the EL then we get 5 teams in the CL..6th and 7th get EL next year
If Utd had come 4th and won the EL then we'd only get 4..then 5th and 6th get EL.
Could be wrong but that's what I heard.
		
Click to expand...

Everton in 7th already have EL regardless of Utd and Cup Final because Chelsea won Carling Cup,


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## Fish (May 14, 2017)

Well that was inevitable.


----------



## Tashyboy (May 14, 2017)

Finking eggs and one basket at the mo with utd.


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 14, 2017)

Good display from Liverpool.
could have been eight.
nice to see two strikers.
no Lucas means centre backs are closer together better shape.
Cotuinio looks better deeper.
But a lot of credit last couple of games goes to Minolet he's been very good.
Bit lucky with the pen but you ride it when you get it.


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## Slime (May 14, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Finking eggs and one basket at the mo with utd.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely ................ and if Ajax win maybe JM will get the boot!!


----------



## Slime (May 14, 2017)

Hello?


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## clubchamp98 (May 14, 2017)

Slime said:



			Absolutely ................ and if Ajax win maybe JM will get the boot!!
		
Click to expand...

This happened at Liverpool last year.
Klopp put all eggs in one basket and lost.


----------



## anotherdouble (May 14, 2017)

If Utd win europa league, would that end up having a better season than Spurs. 2 trophies and CL football next year against 2nd in league and the same CL football.


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## Fish (May 14, 2017)

Slime said:



			Hello?
		
Click to expand...

Should Rashford of scored


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## Jensen (May 14, 2017)

There's some people on the pitch, at The Lane, they think it's all over - it is now.


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## Jensen (May 14, 2017)

See the old boys are doing an honour parade, i.e. Hoddle, Waddle, Sheringham etc I wonder if Sol Campbell's there  &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Fish (May 14, 2017)

Jensen said:



			See the old boys are doing an honour parade, i.e. Hoddle, Waddle, Sheringham etc I wonder if Sol Campbell's there  &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;
		
Click to expand...

No Gazza


----------



## Papas1982 (May 14, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			If Utd win europa league, would that end up having a better season than Spurs. 2 trophies and CL football next year against 2nd in league and the same CL football.
		
Click to expand...

For the next year or two I'd imagine most rivals would try to suggest Spurs did better. But in time it'll go back to the history books. One team has 2 trophies and one had zero. 

I know now what I'd deem more successful.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 14, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			If Utd win europa league, would that end up having a better season than Spurs. 2 trophies and CL football next year against 2nd in league and the same CL football.
		
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The record books will say Utd. If I was a paying fan I would far rather have been a spurs fan this year. Utd are awful to watch, Spurs are a joy.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 14, 2017)

Fish said:



			No Gazza
		
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He is rarely in a good place now. Perhaps not up to it.


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## Jensen (May 14, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He is rarely in a good place now. Perhaps not up to it.
		
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Sadly, think you're right


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## Jensen (May 14, 2017)

After Peter Crouch showed up though Defoe would've been there


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## Lord Tyrion (May 14, 2017)

Not all players have been invited. Alan Brazil was saying on his show he had not been asked. No issue for him, in his words, as he wasn't there long. Maybe Defoe didn't meet the criteria?


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## Tarkus1212 (May 14, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Everton in 7th already have EL regardless of Utd and Cup Final because *Chelsea won Carling Cup*,
		
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Did we? Can't believe I missed it......


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 14, 2017)

Tarkus1212 said:



			Did we? Can't believe I missed it...... 

Click to expand...

You missed a cracker, Zlatan got your winner 

Well spotted, fat fingers an all that :thup:


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## Stuart_C (May 15, 2017)

Fish said:



			Well that's pretty much secured 4th place for Liverpool as I can't see them not getting a result against relegated Boro. 

I didn't think they'd hold out, they've enjoyed some good fortune but it's a results based league and so the table doesn't lie. 

Tough gig for Utd later unless Spurs chuck in the towel now the race is over, otherwise it's 6th place for them and 5th for Arsenal who can't move anywhere with nailed on results going against them above. 

Oh well, lets all look on the bright side, Wenger will be staying for another season at least, or until he gets them back into the CL and then he'll move on &#128540; could be longer than 1 season &#128514;
		
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Here fishy fishy tut tut tut

Are you sure your 6th at best comment was aimed at yernited and not Jerg's tricky reds :smirk: :smirk:


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## Stuart_C (May 15, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			You missed a cracker, Zlatan got your winner 

Well spotted, fat fingers an all that :thup:
		
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You've let yourself down there mush :rofl:


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## Hobbit (May 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			You've let yourself down there mush :rofl:
		
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Hey up, Liverpool must have got over their wobbles... Stu's back.

The mighty Boro will burn them next Saturday.


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## BristolMike (May 15, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Hey up, Liverpool must have got over their wobbles... Stu's back.

The mighty Boro will burn them next Saturday.
		
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I hope they do. It would just be funny watching Klopps excuses


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## Stuart_C (May 15, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Hey up, Liverpool must have got over their wobbles... Stu's back.

The mighty Boro will burn them next Saturday.
		
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Cooey  

I never shy away bri, unlike some.......


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## Stuart_C (May 15, 2017)

BristolMike;1692874[B said:
			
		


			]I hope they do[/B]. It would just be funny watching Klopps excuses
		
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I do too.............. I'm just glad the match is on Sunday :rofl:

As for Klopp's excuses he's obviously been listening to Mourinho cover up for failing with one of Europe's most expensive squad.


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## BristolMike (May 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I do too.............. I'm just glad the match is on Sunday :rofl:

As for Klopp's excuses he's obviously been listening to Mourinho cover up for failing with one of Europe's most expensive squad.
		
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mourinho has only really moaned about the number of games we've had to play. Usually it wouldn't not be a problem, but the number of injuries included have made it tough. I think it's been 17 games in 7 or 8 weeks. Happens when you get to latter stages though I suppose

Ive been to a lot of the home games this year and we aren't as far away as people want to believe. I've never seen us walk into so many world class performances from goal keepers and CBs. The number of chances we were creating at home is up hugely from the LVG reign and we just needed to be more clinical. At one point we drew about 4 or 5 games with an average shots per game of 25-30. I don't remember us having 25 shots at home all season under LVG

on the other side, if anyone is ever looking for hospitality tickets to united at a really good price let me know


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## Stuart_C (May 15, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			mourinho has only really moaned about the number of games we've had to play. Usually it wouldn't not be a problem, but the number of injuries included have made it tough. I think it's been 17 games in 7 or 8 weeks. Happens when you get to latter stages though I suppose

Ive been to a lot of the home games this year and we aren't as far away as people want to believe. I've never seen us walk into so many world class performances from goal keepers and CBs. The number of chances we were creating at home is up hugely from the LVG reign and we just needed to be more clinical. At one point we drew about 4 or 5 games with an average shots per game of 25-30. I don't remember us having 25 shots at home all season under LVG

on the other side, if anyone is ever looking for hospitality tickets to united at a really good price let me know
		
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The only credible argument Mourinho has is kick off times at 12noon on a Sunday when you've just played away in Europe on a Thursday night. Its unfair and it gives the lesser successful side an advantage. 

As for your other points, that squad that JM has at his disposal should have done better this season especially at home.


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## BristolMike (May 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			The only credible argument Mourinho has is kick off times at 12noon on a Sunday when you've just played away in Europe on a Thursday night. Its unfair and it gives the lesser successful side an advantage. 

As for your other points, that squad that JM has at his disposal should have done better this season especially at home.
		
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Ywah they should have. I'm as frustrated as anyone with the amount I've spent. I just can't see the same performances against us again, the Heaton one got all the praise in the press but the Stoke keeper had a better game against us. 

I think it was just down to being clinical, it's like the players don't go through shooting drills when they aim for the corners. We will bring in a few more players, get rid of some of the deadwood (please fellaini just go) and hopefully be better next season. 

Next season will be interesting. Liverpool and Chelsea with the additional games Europe brings, city spending, do arsenal keep Ozil and Sanchez, how do Chelsea replace costa


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## Lord Tyrion (May 15, 2017)

How many games this season and past has De Gea been your man of the match? He has saved you 10-15 points pretty much every season since he joined. You can't complain about other keepers having the match of their lives when your own keeper is as good as he is.


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## Stuart_C (May 15, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			Ywah they should have. I'm as frustrated as anyone with the amount I've spent. I just can't see the same performances against us again, the Heaton one got all the praise in the press but the Stoke keeper had a better game against us. 

*I think it was just down to being clinical, *it's like the players don't go through shooting drills when they aim for the corners. We will bring in a few more players, get rid of some of the deadwood (please fellaini just go) and hopefully be better next season. 

Next season will be interesting. Liverpool and Chelsea with the additional games Europe brings, city spending, do arsenal keep Ozil and Sanchez, how do Chelsea replace costa
		
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Is the only answer to yernited's downfall this year. 

Playing forwards as defenders doesn't help neither


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## Tashyboy (May 15, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How many games this season and past has De Gea been your man of the match? He has saved you 10-15 points pretty much every season since he joined. You can't complain about other keepers having the match of their lives when your own keeper is as good as he is.
		
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Through gritted teeth. I find my self agreeing with a red. Sime of the keepers performances at City this year have been excellent. Differance is utd kepper saves them points. Ours dont. &#9785;&#65039; Praying to god we get him from AC Milan.


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## Fish (May 15, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			how do Chelsea replace costa
		
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Like every club does when they loose a good striker, or any influential player, they go out and buy another one.


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## BristolMike (May 15, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How many games this season and past has De Gea been your man of the match? He has saved you 10-15 points pretty much every season since he joined. You can't complain about other keepers having the match of their lives when your own keeper is as good as he is.
		
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this season I don't think he has at all, I can't even remember once. If you were talking about the last few seasons then I would say quite a lot.


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## BristolMike (May 15, 2017)

Fish said:



			Like every club does when they loose a good striker, or any influential player, they go out and buy another one.
		
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Whos available that plays in a similar way to costa? He suits the Chelsea game perfectly. I can't imagine Lewandowski being available, maybe Lukaku, can't think of anyone else in that mould


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## Lord Tyrion (May 15, 2017)

Chelsea aren't short of money, even more so if they sell Costa to China for a whopping amount. They will have most of Europe to choose from, further afield if there is anyone out there. Costa has been in and out this year, certainly not irreplaceable. There are a number of other players at Chelsea more vital than Costa imo.

Top clubs will all have a nice list of players who will suit. We tend to think of the obvious ones but there will be players outside of the elite few teams but still in top leagues who will be up to the job and on the radar. Conte himself will know every Italian striker perfectly. If you have the cash then worrying about how to replace one player is not a big deal unless it is someone like Messi, Xavi or Iniesta.


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## Piece (May 15, 2017)

Chelsea on a big high after clinching the title. Watford haven't scored in over 10 hrs away. Chelsea will be having a great party and will play without pressure. Watford lost last five away, without scoring and desperately low on confidence. Chelsea have a manager they love to play for. Watford have a manager no one really likes. :mmm:

So, there's only one result coming here. A massive spanking.  Thank God we don't need the points! :thup:


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## ColchesterFC (May 15, 2017)

Stolen from Twitter. Wasn't sure whether to post it here or in one of the politics thread......


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## Stuart_C (May 15, 2017)

I've just been having a clear out in my loft and I've come  across an auld football sticker book from 1988. Some of the teams in the top flight like oxford, Wimbledon, Coventry, Luton brings back memories as a young kid.

When football WAS football.


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## Pin-seeker (May 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I've just been having a clear out in my loft and I've come  across an auld football sticker book from 1988. Some of the teams in the top flight like oxford, Wimbledon, Coventry, Luton brings back memories as a young kid.

When football WAS football.
		
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Back when Liverpool were any good you mean?? &#128513;


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I've just been having a clear out in my loft and I've come  across an auld football sticker book from 1988. Some of the teams in the top flight like oxford, Wimbledon, Coventry, Luton brings back memories as a young kid.

When football WAS football.
		
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It's quite good to see the changes to all 4 leagues from them days, some quality players in there as well.


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## Piece (May 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I've just been having a clear out in my loft and I've come  across an auld football sticker book from 1988. Some of the teams in the top flight like oxford, Wimbledon, Coventry, Luton brings back memories as a young kid.

When football WAS football.
		
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Coventry....Killer Kilcline!


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## Stuart_C (May 15, 2017)

Piece said:



			Coventry....Killer Kilcline!
		
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He'd last minutes these days.


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## Liverbirdie (May 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I've just been having a clear out in my loft and I've come  across an auld football sticker book from 1988. Some of the teams in the top flight like oxford, Wimbledon, Coventry, Luton brings back memories as a young kid.

When football WAS football.
		
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Went to all of them away.

Oxford was the worst ground out of all of them, it looked like a shanty town. It had about 9 tiny little different stands.

Coventry was always a laugh, and every year the local sex shop got done, which led to lots of plastic "toys" getting thrown on the pitch.


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## Stuart_C (May 15, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Went to all of them away.

Oxford was the worst ground out of all of them, it looked like a shanty town. It had about 9 tiny little different stands.

Coventry was always a laugh, and every year the local sex shop got done, which led to lots of plastic "toys" getting thrown on the pitch.

Click to expand...


Haha I never went to Luton until a few seasons later, I can't remember who got sent off but we drew 0-0.


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## Liverbirdie (May 15, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha I never went to Luton until a few seasons later, I can't remember who got sent off but we drew 0-0.
		
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Weirdly enough, I only went to Luton twice, and both times when the away fan ban was on.

The first one I was due in work on the Saturday morning, and I was going to all the away matches then. At the last minute, I thought sod this, so got a taxi up to the rocket and hitched a lift, luckily from a vanload of Reds also going. I got a ticket in their supporters club, who, fair play to them didnt agree with the ban, so got me in.

The second year I didnt get in but got the match ball, when it was kicked over that little daft stand of exec boxes, and it bounced 5 yards in front of me.


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## Stuart_C (May 15, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Weirdly enough, I only went to Luton twice, and both times when the away fan ban was on.

The first one I was due in work on the Saturday morning, and I was going to all the away matches then. At the last minute, I thought sod this, so got a taxi up to the rocket and hitched a lift, luckily from a vanload of Reds also going. I got a ticket in their supporters club, who, fair play to them didnt agree with the ban, so got me in.

The second year I didnt get in but got the match ball, when it was kicked over that little daft stand of exec boxes, and it bounced 5 yards in front of me.
		
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It was in the Souness era I went,  they'd just had a grass pitch laid that summer and I've never been back even though we've played them a few times since.


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## pbrown7582 (May 16, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Weirdly enough, I only went to Luton twice, and both times when the away fan ban was on.

The first one I was due in work on the Saturday morning, and I was going to all the away matches then. At the last minute, I thought sod this, so got a taxi up to the rocket and hitched a lift, luckily from a vanload of Reds also going. I got a ticket in their supporters club, who, fair play to them didnt agree with the ban, so got me in.

The second year I didnt get in but got the match ball, when it was kicked over that little daft stand of exec boxes, and it bounced 5 yards in front of me.
		
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:thup:

I went both seasons away fans were banned and managed to get in!


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## Stuart_C (May 16, 2017)

What's with the empty seats at the Emirates?


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## Lord Tyrion (May 16, 2017)

They're playing Sunderland in a virtually dead match. Would you put yourself out for that considering the current unrest?


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## Stuart_C (May 16, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They're playing Sunderland in a virtually dead match. Would you put yourself out for that considering the current unrest?
		
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Even more the reason to go imo. Those tickets have long been bought, don't forget there's still top 4 to play for.


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## Tashyboy (May 16, 2017)

Keep it goin city


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## Lord Tyrion (May 16, 2017)

I'm watching the city match until 9, something else on then. I reckon the West Brom first team are watching this with Tashy in Benidorm because these fellas are not breaking sweat. Way too easy for city.


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## Stuart_C (May 16, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm watching the city match until 9, something else on then. I reckon the West Brom first team are watching this with Tashy in Benidorm because these fellas are not breaking sweat. Way too easy for city.
		
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I'm watching Dundee v Falkirk on the box, Dundee scored a cracker and I've got the COLFC v Barnoldswick Town nwcfl cup final on the wireless


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## Fish (May 16, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			What's with the empty seats at the Emirates?
		
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Every home game &#128540;


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## JohnnyDee (May 16, 2017)

Don't normally watch much football but Reading 2nd leg against Fulham in  Championship playoff has my nerves on edge. Reading one up 1 on night 2-1 up on at


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## Stuart_C (May 16, 2017)

Fish said:



			Every home game &#128540;
		
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More tonight than I've seen. 

There's less empty seats at city than the Emirates.


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## Dan2501 (May 16, 2017)

The Emptirates.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 16, 2017)

JohnnyDee said:



			Don't normally watch much football but Reading 2nd leg against Fulham in  Championship playoff has my nerves on edge. Reading one up 1 on night 2-1 up on at
		
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Not doing much for me but then it's my side 1-0 down


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## Stuart_C (May 16, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			The Emptirates.
		
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Hehe, the first sign of failure and they bail.

Poor.


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## Dan2501 (May 16, 2017)

1-0. Was praying Sunderland would hold on.


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## Fish (May 16, 2017)

22 goals and 10 assists, if Arsenal lose Sanchez there even bigger mugs than I think they are now.


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## JohnnyDee (May 16, 2017)

Never saw a team hang on for 40 minutes under such pressure - Reading in the final.


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## ger147 (May 17, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm watching Dundee v Falkirk on the box, Dundee scored a cracker and I've got the COLFC v Barnoldswick Town nwcfl cup final on the wireless 

Click to expand...

It was Dundee Utd not Dundee. You wouldn't be best pleased if someone called your team Everton...


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## Stuart_C (May 17, 2017)

ger147 said:



			It was Dundee Utd not Dundee. You wouldn't be best pleased if someone called your team Everton... 

Click to expand...

Apologies to anyone who was offended by my oversight, it won't happen again.


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## USER1999 (May 17, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			What's with the empty seats at the Emirates?
		
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It is a protest against the board of directors and Arsene Wenger. The only thing they might take notice of is empty seats, so a lot of season ticket holders did not turn up. Some of the Arsenal bloggers have been calling for this, and I guess some listened.


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## Fish (May 17, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			It is a protest against the board of en yes,  and Arsene Wenger. The only thing they might take notice of is empty seats, so a lot of season ticket holders did not turn up. Some of the Arsenal bloggers have been calling for this, and I guess some listened.
		
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The thing is, if it's mainly season ticket holders will it have an impact as the seat is already paid for?  

Obviously if the renewal of season ticket numbers falls then yes, the board might react, but unfortunately I think for those that don't renew they'll be a queue behind to fill those gaps!


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## Lord Tyrion (May 17, 2017)

What else can season ticket holders do though? They have already paid their money. Staying away is the best they can do to show displeasure. It may be an empty gesture but it is something. Unfortunately for them, great for everyone else, I suspect Wenger is going to stay another year. That seems to be the mood music coming out of The Emirates.


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## USER1999 (May 17, 2017)

Fish said:



			The thing is, if it's mainly season ticket holders will it have an impact as the seat is already paid for?  

Obviously if the renewal of season ticket numbers falls then yes, the board might react, but unfortunately I think for those that don't renew they'll be a queue behind to fill those gaps!
		
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Its more about a visible protest, to get in the papers, and to be seen for 90 minutes on Sky. If people had returned their tickets, they could have been sold on.

Empty seats are a good way to protest. Its hard to sell the commercials if the stadium isnt full, and Sky dont like it


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## Stuart_C (May 17, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			It is a protest against the board of directors and Arsene Wenger. The only thing they might take notice of is empty seats, so a lot of season ticket holders did not turn up. Some of the Arsenal bloggers have been calling for this, and I guess some listened.
		
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Fair play if that's the reason.


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## JCW (May 17, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Its more about a visible protest, to get in the papers, and to be seen for 90 minutes on Sky. If people had returned their tickets, they could have been sold on.

Empty seats are a good way to protest. Its hard to sell the commercials if the stadium isnt full, and Sky dont like it
		
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Something is going on , Wenger has not said anything or signed and the board has said nothing , power battle going on with a board that is split , its not good and looks like Europa League next year , at least we can win that lol as the champions league is set up for BM, Barca, RM and now Juv who all play in leagues where there is many soft games and most are 1 club leagues so the players are sort of fresh where the Premire league is now 6 or 7 clubs in the hunt and no real soft games with the other clubs or winter breaks like the other leagues , its a lot harder now then before . Pep won everything in spain and Germany but not here , he has good players here as he did at those other clubs but the league is no turn up in a many games and go hard for 25 mins and go 3 up then sit back and take off the top players ...............EYG


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## Stuart_C (May 17, 2017)

Fish said:



			The thing is, if it's mainly season ticket holders will it have an impact as the seat is already paid for?  

Obviously if the renewal of season ticket numbers falls then yes, the board might react, but unfortunately I think for those that don't renew they'll be a queue behind to fill those gaps!
		
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It's a wake up call that fans aren't prepared to put up with what they're watching. Sponsorship and football in general don't like seeing empty seats as it damages their product.

We'll done to those fans who are being proactive instead of sitting there and complaining.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 17, 2017)

How on earth has Paul Clements, Tony Pullis and Eddie Howe been nominated PL Manager of the Year, I get Conte, Potch and even Sean Dyce, just can't agree with Pullis and Howe especially, with one game to go they have 2 and 3 more points than last season.
Hopefully Conte will win it, but the last 3 I really don't understand, looks like a reward for mediocrity.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 17, 2017)

Totally agree Paul. Pullis could have been up for it but West Brom stopped playing about 10-11 games ago. At one stage they were breathing behind our necks, now they are 16 points behind. Clements has come in as a fire fighter, done well but he has only been there for a few games. If you count him then why not Shakespeare? Bournemouth have done well but not exceptionally so. 

I don't see how you can look past Conte, Poch at a push, although no silverware, and if you need another name then Koeman for how he has improved Everton, both in points, league position and also entertainment. Conte still walks it though. Anything else is a travesty.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 17, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Totally agree Paul. Pullis could have been up for it but West Brom stopped playing about 10-11 games ago. At one stage they were breathing behind our necks, now they are 16 points behind. Clements has come in as a fire fighter, done well but he has only been there for a few games. If you count him then why not Shakespeare? Bournemouth have done well but not exceptionally so. 

I don't see how you can look past Conte, Poch at a push, although no silverware, and if you need another name then Koeman for how he has improved Everton, both in points, league position and also entertainment. Conte still walks it though. Anything else is a travesty.
		
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I'd put Klopp after Conte, Poch and Jose, 
Jose has in his first season possibly going to get 2 Trophies and CL football and klippetty has took LPool to likely top 4 and CL football from mid table.
Then maybe Koeman, but what has Pulis done?


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## Lord Tyrion (May 17, 2017)

I'd forgotten Liverpool were 8th last year. They are currently 13 points better off with a game to go but in that all important 4th spot. Good improvement. We are 14 better off with one to go so I am still happy. I know Jose has won a trophy but Utd are so bad to watch that I can't have him up there. Not when you bear in mind the players at his disposal and the money spent.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 17, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd forgotten Liverpool were 8th last year. They are currently 13 points better off with a game to go but in that all important 4th spot. Good improvement. We are 14 better off with one to go so I am still happy. I know Jose has won a trophy but Utd are so bad to watch that I can't have him up there. Not when you bear in mind the players at his disposal and the money spent.
		
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Depends what you class as success, Utd have undoubtebly improved under Jose and they are in a European Final plus already a Trophy, would you swap their season for ours? I would.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 17, 2017)

If having that season meant Jose as our manager then no thanks.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 17, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If having that season meant Jose as our manager then no thanks.
		
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Ha Ha Ha, he's quality, I like him.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Totally agree Paul. Pullis could have been up for it but West Brom stopped playing about 10-11 games ago. At one stage they were breathing behind our necks, now they are 16 points behind. Clements has come in as a fire fighter, done well but he has only been there for a few games. If you count him then why not Shakespeare? Bournemouth have done well but not exceptionally so. 

I don't see how you can look past Conte, Poch at a push, although no silverware, and if you need another name then Koeman for how he has improved Everton, both in points, league position and also entertainment. Conte still walks it though. Anything else is a travesty.
		
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Conte should be a clear winner of the Manager of the Year 

Pochettino , Klopp possibly on the list because of the improvements they have made - Koeman , Pulis , Howe have all stepped their clubs up a few places - would also include Dyche who has done superb at Burnley. But Jose shouldn't be anywhere near the list - spent millions for a team to go backwards in the league


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## HomerJSimpson (May 17, 2017)

Win trophies and get to finals or get a CL spot. Can't help remembering when this argument was put to Arsenal fans!! From where United were last year, a trophy and a chance of another and CL qualification isn't a bad return and lets be honest about it all, Jose was very clear that he was prepared to take the hit in a league position in order to get to the Europa final and focus on winning that. Whether that plan works remains to be seen but he's done what he needed to so far


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## Tashyboy (May 17, 2017)

In the two seasons that city won the title. Alan pardew at newcastle won it then Tony Pulis at Crystal Palace won it. Think this award is voted for by idiots who allege to have a knowledge of football.


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## Piece (May 17, 2017)

There's only one Manager of the Year, Conte. Poch comes a distance second and the other names mentioned, well, aren't worth mentioning.


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## Kellfire (May 17, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Win trophies and get to finals or get a CL spot. Can't help remembering when this argument was put to Arsenal fans!! From where United were last year, a trophy and a chance of another and CL qualification isn't a bad return and lets be honest about it all, Jose was very clear that he was prepared to take the hit in a league position in order to get to the Europa final and focus on winning that. Whether that plan works remains to be seen but he's done what he needed to so far
		
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If United lose the Europa League final we've had a worse season than last year overall. Won a lesser trophy and still only in the Europa next season. Fine margins.


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## Piece (May 17, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			If United lose the Europa League final we've had a worse season than last year overall. Won a lesser trophy and still only in the Europa next season. Fine margins.
		
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Indeed. If Arsenal win FA Cup and get into CL, who has had the better season? Spurs or Arsenal?


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## HomerJSimpson (May 17, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			If United lose the Europa League final we've had a worse season than last year overall. Won a lesser trophy and still only in the Europa next season. Fine margins.
		
Click to expand...

And I agree although a trophy (lesser or not) is still on the CV and you have to admit he's laid his stall out nice and clear and I think he'll do everything in his mind game repetoire and on the training ground to ensure his players do all they can to win and qualify for Europe. Whether it's because I'm down south but there doesn't seem to have been huge dissent by United fans about his decision to forfeit the pursuit of 4th


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## Fish (May 17, 2017)




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## User62651 (May 18, 2017)

Can we not celebrate the Dandy Dons winning 2-1 at Ibrox last night, first time since 1991 
Looked like it should have been more too.
Confidence booster for Cup Final hopefully though can't see an upset there.


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## Junior (May 18, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			If United lose the Europa League final we've had a worse season than last year overall. Won a lesser trophy and still only in the Europa next season. Fine margins.
		
Click to expand...

We're going to get battered mate. Ajax to me look a better team and have had a couple of weeks off, we get 3 days but should play a reserved side on Sunday against Palace .  Hopefully a smash a grab will see us win.  

That said, we are a better side than previous seasons but no better than those above us.  I worry where the goals will come from if/when Ibra leaves.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 18, 2017)

Kane hits four and puts a real marker down to the PL golden boot


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## guest100718 (May 18, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Kane hits four and puts a real marker down to the PL golden boot
		
Click to expand...

2 ahead of Lukaku, Spurs away to  Hull and Everton away to the Arse last game.

He's one of our own....


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## Stuart_C (May 18, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			2 ahead of Lukaku, Spurs away to  Hull and Everton away to the Arse last game.

He's one of our own....
		
Click to expand...

Don't worry about lukaku, when he turns he only scores against lower teams...


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## Fish (May 19, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Kane hits four and puts a real marker down to the PL golden boot
		
Click to expand...

Can't see past him TBH.

He doesn't have to come looking for the ball so deep or wide than others and the team is far more balanced around him than other teams.

I think if Sanchez had someone like Erikson, Alli (6th) and Son (12th) around him he'd be banging them in for fun, you have to go down to 17/25 to find Giroud and then Walcott (20th).  

It's the same for Lukaku, he's a lone wolf, as can be seen by no other Everton scorer in the top 25.

Same with Ibrahimovic, no other Utd players feature in the top 25!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/top-scorers


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 19, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Don't worry about lukaku, when he turns he only scores against lower teams...
		
Click to expand...

I'd be worried about yourselves rather than being obsessed with us :ears:


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## Lord Tyrion (May 19, 2017)

Fish said:



			Can't see past him TBH.

He doesn't have to come looking for the ball so deep or wide than others and the team is far more balanced around him than other teams.

I think if Sanchez had someone like Erikson, Alli (6th) and Son (12th) around him he'd be banging them in for fun, you have to go down to 17/25 to find Giroud and then Walcott (20th).  

It's the same for Lukaku, he's a lone wolf, as can be seen by no other Everton scorer in the top 25.

Same with Ibrahimovic, no other Utd players feature in the top 25!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/top-scorers

Click to expand...

Well summed up.


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## Dan2501 (May 19, 2017)

Kane getting his 26 goals at one every 94 minutes. Very impressive.


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## Kellfire (May 19, 2017)

He's the best forward in the league for me. Better than Aguero at this stage.


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## Stuart_C (May 19, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I'd be worried about yourselves rather than being obsessed with us :ears:
		
Click to expand...

When did he actually last turn up in a game?


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 19, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			When did he actually last turn up in a game?
		
Click to expand...

24 times in the PL this season alone, not bad for a flat track bully playing for a small club. :rofl:


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## Liverbirdie (May 19, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			24 times in the PL this season alone, not bad for a flat track bully playing for a small club. :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Ting, ting - think he has bought Pinseeker's Liverpool early alarm knowledge system (L.E.A.K.S.)


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 19, 2017)

I was going to post the records for Liverpools strikers this year but then realised it would have been cruel . 

He turned up enough and should bring us in a tidy sum this summer. I hope Koeman plays a couple of kids up front this Sunday. I don't want Rom getting injured and it knocking off some value off his fee, kerrching.


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## Stuart_C (May 19, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			24 times in the PL this season alone, not bad for a flat track bully playing for a small club. :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Answer the question soft ollies?  I asked when he last turned up not how many times


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## Pin-seeker (May 19, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ting, ting - think he has bought Pinseeker's Liverpool early alarm knowledge system (L.E.A.K.S.) 

Click to expand...

:rofl:
Top Bantz as ever Sin.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 19, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Answer the question soft ollies?  I asked when he last turned up not how many times 

Click to expand...

He turned up against Watford, played very well and didn't score :ears:
For me to think you're making a valid point, please list all the centre forwards who turn up and score every game. :thup:


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## ColchesterFC (May 19, 2017)

Would this be good news Arsenal fans? Usmanov making a bid to take full control of the club from Kroenke although it looks like it will be rejected....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39981841


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## Pin-seeker (May 19, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Would this be good news Arsenal fans? Usmanov making a bid to take full control of the club from Kroenke although it looks like it will be rejected....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39981841

Click to expand...

Can't see how it could be bad.
That's some serious money.


----------



## Fish (May 19, 2017)

Is it 1bn +Â£1 ðŸ˜œ


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## Stuart_C (May 19, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			He turned up against Watford, played very well and didn't score :ears:
For me to think you're making a valid point, please list all the centre forwards who turn up and score every game. :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Backs up my point, he only turns up against the little teams


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 19, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Backs up my point, he only turns up against the little teams 

Click to expand...

:thup:
Nice to see you're posting more about us blooos than you are about your own shower


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## fundy (May 19, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Would this be good news Arsenal fans? Usmanov making a bid to take full control of the club from Kroenke although it looks like it will be rejected....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39981841

Click to expand...

not convinced anything would change tbh


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## Pin-seeker (May 21, 2017)

Harry Kane is just taking the P now.


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## Slime (May 21, 2017)

United playing very well, at last ..................... and right now Arsenal are pushing Liverpool out of the Champions' League!


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## Old Skier (May 21, 2017)

Slime said:



			United playing very well, at last ..................... and right now Arsenal are pushing Liverpool out of the Champions' League!
		
Click to expand...

Not now


----------



## stokie_93 (May 21, 2017)

Nice win to end the season. 
Butland brilliant 2nd half.


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## Imurg (May 21, 2017)

This is all very quiet...

I'd have expected LPP and Stu to be doing laps with their shirts over their heads while Sawtooth, Fundy and Murph shed a tear or two as Tashy sits smugly......&#128537;


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (May 21, 2017)

Imurg said:



			This is all very quiet...

I'd have expected LPP and Stu to be doing laps with their shirts over their heads while Sawtooth, Fundy and Murph shed a tear or two as Tashy sits smugly......&#128537;
		
Click to expand...

:rofl: You've got no chance of LPool fans celebrating 4th after the stick they've given Arsenal fans about finishing there :rofl:


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## Imurg (May 21, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			:rofl: You've got no chance of LPool fans celebrating 4th after the stick they've given Arsenal fans about finishing there :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Pahahahahahahahahahaha&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (May 21, 2017)

The League doesn't lie and teams have finished were they've deserved to.

Chelsea far and above the best team and I hope they do the double, Conte is a class act imo.

As for Everton, better than what I would of accepted in Koeman's first season, very impressed with him and, again, imo I think we'll be the dark horses in and around the top 4 next season.


----------



## Papas1982 (May 21, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			The League doesn't lie and teams have finished were they've deserved to.

Chelsea far and above the best team and I hope they do the double, Conte is a class act imo.

As for Everton, better than what I would of accepted in Koeman's first season, very impressed with him and, again, imo I think we'll be the dark horses in and around the top 4 next season.
		
Click to expand...

Satisfactory season for us. Gutted about the final as we deserved better imo. 

Think next season will will depend on how we do in the transfer market. I think Everton could be the same. If they now get asset stripped then the hard work starts again. 

Id be amazed if either club has their main star still there in ausgust. Not sure how many more cb's we can find and sell to Liverpool. 

Great display by Spurs today. Hope they get over the Wembley jinx and keep the team together as Kane and Ali are a partnership that would be great for England for a decade.


----------



## sawtooth (May 21, 2017)

Imurg said:



			This is all very quiet...

I'd have expected LPP and Stu to be doing laps with their shirts over their heads while Sawtooth, Fundy and Murph shed a tear or two as Tashy sits smugly......&#128537;
		
Click to expand...

I'd take a FA Cup win over 4th in league all day long.


----------



## User62651 (May 21, 2017)

Would any Gooners take an FA Cup Final defeat simply in order to force Wenger out or is that out of the question? - you've won it twice recently anyway. If Arsenal do win the Cup it gives Arsene a lifeline (if he wants one). No Champions League is going to hurt for Arsenal fans next season so used to big European nights every season, may even prevent summer recruitment, cause a few to leave even.


----------



## Slime (May 21, 2017)

United actually played some decent football today, it was refreshing to watch and good to see some of the nippers having a game.
Overall, the season has been very poor and only Wednesday's final can salvage anything from this season.
We were unfortunate with injuries, especially Zlatan, but that's no excuse ............... all teams get injuries.
A Europa League win will, to a certain extent, just paper over the cracks.
United need to rediscover their swagger and confidence, which will only come with a win on Wednesday, a couple of good signings, a change of attitude from Moanrinho and a bloody good pre-season.
Here's hoping!!

League Cup 10/10
FA Cup 8/10
Europa League 7/10 or 10/10 depending on Wednesday.
Premier League 3/10


----------



## fundy (May 21, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Would any Gooners take an FA Cup Final defeat simply in order to force Wenger out or is that out of the question? - you've won it twice recently anyway. If Arsenal do win the Cup it gives Arsene a lifeline (if he wants one). No Champions League is going to hurt for Arsenal fans next season so used to big European nights every season, may even prevent summer recruitment, cause a few to leave even.
		
Click to expand...

yep and have said similar, problem is with Wenger, winning FA Cup may be enough for him to go out on a high or it could tempt him to stay, really dont know what goes through his mind these days!


----------



## BristolMike (May 21, 2017)

Slime said:



			United actually played some decent football today, it was refreshing to watch and good to see some of the nippers having a game.
Overall, the season has been very poor and only Wednesday's final can salvage anything from this season.
We were unfortunate with injuries, especially Zlatan, but that's no excuse ............... all teams get injuries.
A Europa League win will, to a certain extent, just paper over the cracks.
United need to rediscover their swagger and confidence, which will only come with a win on Wednesday, a couple of good signings, a change of attitude from Moanrinho and a bloody good pre-season.
Here's hoping!!

League Cup 10/10
FA Cup 8/10
Europa League 7/10 or 10/10 depending on Wednesday.
Premier League 3/10
		
Click to expand...

i actually think united were okay in the league. If you look at this season compared to any other since Sir Alex left it's been much much better. We've just been very wasteful in front of goal. We were actually creating 15-20+ chances in most of the games we drew. I'm not happy with the league position, but I wouldn't say it's been a 3/10 season in the league. 

I wouldnt say the league cup would have been a 10/10. I was at the final and we stumbled over the line. We played worse in that game than most of the home games we drew


----------



## Piece (May 21, 2017)

That wasn't a fair scoreline at The Vic. It should have 10-0


----------



## sawtooth (May 21, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Would any Gooners take an FA Cup Final defeat simply in order to force Wenger out or is that out of the question? - you've won it twice recently anyway. If Arsenal do win the Cup it gives Arsene a lifeline (if he wants one). No Champions League is going to hurt for Arsenal fans next season so used to big European nights every season, may even prevent summer recruitment, cause a few to leave even.
		
Click to expand...

No way and I don't see why there's need for change to be honest. I think Wenger will strengthen in Summer more than ever before , play kids in the Europa League and have a crack at the title next year.


----------



## fundy (May 21, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			No way and I don't see why there's need for change to be honest. I think Wenger will strengthen in Summer more than ever before , play kids in the Europa League and have a crack at the title next year.
		
Click to expand...

good to see the blinkers still working well


----------



## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			:rofl: You've got no chance of LPool fans celebrating 4th after the stick they've given Arsenal fans about finishing there :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Rightly so, we've improved on last season and have got closer to CL Football next season and in the context of the season and with the squad we've got it's been relatively successful. But there's no point qualifying for it if we don't get out of the group stages.



sawtooth said:



			I'd take a FA Cup win over 4th in league all day long. 

Click to expand...

Trophies in the cabinet is much important than qualifying for the CL just to make up the numbers.

I'm going to miss this fella over the next few months . 

https://youtu.be/uNRmpDXsCoc


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## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			No way and _I don't see why there's need for change to be honest._ I think Wenger will strengthen in Summer more than ever before , play kids in the Europa League and have a crack at the title next year.
		
Click to expand...

I'd get down to specsavers first thing in morning if you can't see this seasons failures.



fundy said:



			good to see the blinkers still working well 

Click to expand...

:rofl:


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## sawtooth (May 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I'd get down to specsavers first thing in morning if you can't see this seasons failures.



:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

I see the failures that's why Wenger will strengthen.


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## anotherdouble (May 21, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			No way and I don't see why there's need for change to be honest. I think Wenger will strengthen in Summer more than ever before , play kids in the Europa League and have a crack at the title next year.
		
Click to expand...

He hasn't the last dozen years so why will he now. He has bought plenty but no way has he STRENGTHENED the squad


----------



## anotherdouble (May 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm going to miss this fella over the next few months . 

https://youtu.be/uNRmpDXsCoc

Click to expand...

You and me both fam


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 21, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I see the failures that's why Wenger will strengthen.
		
Click to expand...

Arsenal have had the same problems for a number of years. Why will he see them now when he has failed to see them before?


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## Papas1982 (May 21, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			You and me both fam
		
Click to expand...

I think this guy is great in the terraces. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-ljs4eDa9Yk


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## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I see the failures that's why Wenger will strengthen.
		
Click to expand...

Do you trust him? He's had the last few seasons to strengthen areas that you've needed to strengthen and now he's got to do it without CL football/money?


----------



## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I think this guy is great in the terraces. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-ljs4eDa9Yk

Click to expand...

WTF was that?


----------



## anotherdouble (May 21, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I think this guy is great in the terraces. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-ljs4eDa9Yk

Click to expand...

Unbelievable Jeff. Good find Dave


----------



## fundy (May 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Do you trust him? He's had the last few seasons to strengthen areas that you've needed to strengthen and now he's got to do it without CL football/money?
		
Click to expand...

do we really have to go through this again lol


----------



## anotherdouble (May 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			WTF was that?

Click to expand...

:rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 21, 2017)

Imurg said:



			This is all very quiet...

I'd have expected LPP and Stu to be doing laps with their shirts over their heads while Sawtooth, Fundy and Murph shed a tear or two as Tashy sits smugly......&#128537;
		
Click to expand...

It's not something to go over the top in Regards celebrations- it's great to be back in the CL but it should just be only as a stepping stone to move forward and challenge for titles. 

It's just a start not the end game.

In other news how embarrassing and over the top was all that Terry nonsense- great player but that was a bit of a joke - talknonsene had it spot on - today Alonso and Lahm both retired from football , no ceremony just a standing ovation as they were substituted.

Even more stupid is the demand for Puel to go - gets Soton to a solid 8th , into a cup final but people want him sacked ? What exactly do the Soton fans expect of their club ?


----------



## Tashyboy (May 21, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I think this guy is great in the terraces. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-ljs4eDa9Yk

Click to expand...

If he was stood at the side of me singing that I would be booted out for booting him.


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## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

fundy said:



			do we really have to go through this again lol
		
Click to expand...

One last discussion, I promise......


----------



## anotherdouble (May 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's not something to go over the top in Regards celebrations- it's great to be back in the CL but it should just be only as a stepping stone to move forward and challenge for titles. 

It's just a start not the end game.

In other news how embarrassing and over the top was all that Terry nonsense- great player but that was a bit of a joke - talknonsene had it spot on - today Alonso and Lahm both retired from football , no ceremony just a standing ovation as they were substituted.

Even more stupid is the demand for Puel to go - gets Soton to a solid 8th , into a cup final but people want him sacked ? What exactly do the Soton fans expect of their club ?
		
Click to expand...

What should it matter to you what happens at Chelsea. A little contradictory isn't saying talknonsense talking sense


----------



## fundy (May 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			One last discussion, I promise......
		
Click to expand...

been saying that for how many years


----------



## ColchesterFC (May 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's not something to go over the top in Regards celebrations
		
Click to expand...

Not worth going over the top with the celebrations for finishing in the top 4. 

But a 2-2 home draw with West Brom, now that's worth celebrating......


----------



## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's not something to go over the top in Regards celebrations- it's great to be back in the CL but it should just be only as a stepping stone to move forward and challenge for titles. 

It's just a start not the end game.

In other news how embarrassing and over the top was all that Terry nonsense- great player but that was a bit of a joke - talknonsene had it spot on - today Alonso and Lahm both retired from football , no ceremony just a standing ovation as they were substituted.

*Even more stupid is the demand for Puel to go - gets Soton to a solid 8th , into a cup final but people want him sacked ? What exactly do the Soton fans expect of their club ?*

Click to expand...

I disagree. They were unlucky in the LC final against Yernited but their home league form of late hasn't been great.  

I don't get like to hear opposing fans slag other fans for having a go at their own manager as most of the time they don't know what the real issues are and have an opinion as an outsider looking in.

We had it while Rafa was getting it left right and centre  while the owners were getting  a free ride to begin with.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Not worth going over the top with the celebrations for finishing in the top 4. 

But a 2-2 home draw with West Brom, now that's worth celebrating...... 

View attachment 22690

Click to expand...

That was soooooooo last season


----------



## Papas1982 (May 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			WTF was that?

Click to expand...

Can't find the second vid of his. But it's just as good.

Not sure what i like most. The puff of the chest when he finishes, or the trademark Gareth Bale celebration!


----------



## guest100718 (May 21, 2017)

Lukaku must have thought that GB was in the bag last week..... 7 Harry Kane goals later....


----------



## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

fundy said:



			been saying that for how many years 

Click to expand...

Don't be a spoilt sport, we'll treat it as a end of season review


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 21, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			Lukaku must have thought that GB was in the bag last week..... 7 Harry Kane goals later....
		
Click to expand...

Lukaku has been on the beach for the last few weeks. Kane deserved it for playing to the end of the season. To be fair Kane also has a far better supply line and other danger men around him to occupy some of the other defenders.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			Lukaku must have thought that GB was in the bag last week..... 7 Harry Kane goals later....
		
Click to expand...

Kane gave the flat track bully a 10game head start aswell.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Can't find the second vid of his. But it's just as good.

Not sure what i like most. The puff of the chest when he finishes, or the trademark Gareth Bale celebration!
		
Click to expand...

Some people are dangerous with a smartphone :rofl:


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (May 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Kane gave the flat track bully a 10game head start aswell.
		
Click to expand...

Still obsessed :ears:


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's not something to go over the top in Regards celebrations- it's great to be back in the CL but it should just be only as a stepping stone to move forward and challenge for titles. 

It's just a start not the end game.

In other news how embarrassing and over the top was all that Terry nonsense- great player but that was a bit of a joke - talknonsene had it spot on - today Alonso and Lahm both retired from football , no ceremony just a standing ovation as they were substituted.

Even more stupid is the demand for Puel to go - gets Soton to a solid 8th , into a cup final but people want him sacked ? What exactly do the Soton fans expect of their club ?
		
Click to expand...

More or less embarrassing than this?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...evastating-capitulation-Potters-run-riot.html

&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Still obsessed :ears:
		
Click to expand...

If you class being factually correct as obsessed then yes :blah:  :blah:


----------



## Papas1982 (May 21, 2017)

For all that love their fam blud.

Here's the competition.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzd_Z0MgR6PL7SnePsQb2PA/videos


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (May 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			If you class being factually correct as obsessed then yes :blah:  :blah:
		
Click to expand...

You comment more about Lukaku than any of your own players, is it a man-crush? :rofl:


----------



## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			You comment more about Lukaku than any of your own players, is it a man-crush? :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Nah he's not my type.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			For all that love their fam blud.

Here's the competition.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzd_Z0MgR6PL7SnePsQb2PA/videos

Click to expand...

OMFG


----------



## anotherdouble (May 21, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			For all that love their fam blud.

Here's the competition.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzd_Z0MgR6PL7SnePsQb2PA/videos

Click to expand...

This is the one https://youtu.be/nz2hN8lSNAY. What you say sawtooth


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Kane gave the flat track bully a 10game head start aswell.
		
Click to expand...

How did your strikers do in the Golden Boot chart? Are they on the second or third page &#128514;?


----------



## sawtooth (May 21, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			This is the one https://youtu.be/nz2hN8lSNAY. What you say sawtooth
		
Click to expand...

It's a trap I know it.


----------



## Tashyboy (May 21, 2017)

Nah then, just had a quick mosey on a site re premier league most appearances. Ryan Giggs is leading. Was gob smacked to see who is second, only four appearances behind. He is still playing and should break Giggsys record next season.

without Mr Google, any ideas who he is.


----------



## Papas1982 (May 21, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Nah then, just had a quick mosey on a site re premier league most appearances. Ryan Giggs is leading. Was gob smacked to see who is second, only four appearances behind. He is still playing and should break Giggsys record next season.

without Mr Google, any ideas who he is.
		
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If it's not Gareth Barry I'd be amazed!

No google needed. I remember him being a youthful left back,

When he was a youth player at villa he left behind his club gym pass whilst visiting the local odeon. A friend of mine was manager there at the time (now at maidstone) and got free tickets for the season as he got it back tio him. Apparently management had strict fines for youthies that couldn't look after their belongings and Gareth was extremely grateful. He probably had to clean boots back then. Unlike the youngsters now.


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## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How did your strikers do in the Golden Boot chart? Are they on the second or third page &#128514;?
		
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I'm not sure what this has to do with  Lukaku but 14 from a midfielder who missed 10games through injury isn't a bad return.


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## Tashyboy (May 21, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			If it's not Gareth Barry I'd be amazed!

No google needed. I remember him being a youthful left back,

When he was a youth player at villa he left behind his club gym pass whilst visiting the local odeon. A friend of mine was manager there at the time (now at maidstone) and got free tickets for the season as he got it back tio him. Apparently management had strict fines for youthies that couldn't look after their belongings and Gareth was extremely grateful. He probably had to clean boots back then. Unlike the youngsters now.
		
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Good man &#128077;


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## Lord Tyrion (May 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm not sure what this has to do with  Lukaku but 14 from a midfielder who missed 10games through injury isn't a bad return.
		
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You keep having a pop at our striker when you need to be looking at problems at your own club in that dept. Rom got 25 PL goals. You'll be scouring Europe right now for someone who could get you 20, never mind 25.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 21, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How did your strikers do in the Golden Boot chart? Are they on the second or third page &#128514;?
		
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Our strikers combined to have the team in 4th place 15 points clear of the team in 7th  

I would worry what you will do when flat track bully leaves - no one else in the team reached double figures ( Barkley the highest with 6 )


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## Lord Tyrion (May 21, 2017)

Feel free to scour this thread. You won't find any blue continually having a pop at any of your players. Stu keeps raising the subject so don't be surprised when we answer.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Our strikers combined to have the team in 4th place 15 points clear of the team in 7th  

I would worry what you will do when flat track bully leaves - no one else in the team reached double figures ( Barkley the highest with 6 )
		
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Turned up have ya!!!

Another one posting more about us than themselves!

Obsessed and dellusional.

You worry about yourselves!


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## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You keep having a pop at our striker when you need to be looking at problems at your own club in that dept. Rom got 25 PL goals. You'll be scouring Europe right now for someone who could get you 20, never mind 25.
		
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He's just another Andy Cole.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 21, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Not worth going over the top with the celebrations for finishing in the top 4. 

But a 2-2 home draw with West Brom, now that's worth celebrating...... 

View attachment 22690

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Good shout


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## Lord Tyrion (May 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			He's just another Andy Cole.
		
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He didn't do too badly.


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## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Our strikers combined to have the team in 4th place 15 points clear of the team in 7th  

I would worry what you will do when flat track bully leaves - no one else in the team reached double figures ( Barkley the highest with 6 )
		
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If only there was a "like" button :thup:


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## Lord Tyrion (May 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			If only there was a "like" button :thup:
		
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If only there was a PMSL button.


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## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He didn't do too badly.
		
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Just not as good :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If only there was a PMSL button.
		
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I don't know what parts funny  

He's spot on though,used facts to back his point up.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Just not as good :rofl:
		
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Ha ha. Not an international but at club level he had a pretty impressive career. He'd be worth a few quid now.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I don't know what parts funny  

He's spot on though,used facts to back his point up.
		
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He's a google ninja :rofl:


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## Lord Tyrion (May 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I don't know what parts funny  

He's spot on though,used facts to back his point up.
		
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So true, how did I get it so badly wrong &#128561;?


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## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			He's a google ninja :rofl:
		
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At least hes using  facts and not making them up like some


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			At least hes using  facts and not making them up like some 

Click to expand...

He should be concentrating on the 17 point gap to 1st rather than gloating about the 15 point gap to 7th, what next, celebrating 4th :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			He should be concentrating on the 17 point gap to 1st rather than gloating about the 15 point gap to 7th, what next, celebrating 4th :rofl:
		
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We won the league in November didn't we?

Anyway enjoy the Thursday night/sunday afternoon combo from the comfort of your armchair next season :whoo:


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## Liverpoolphil (May 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Our strikers combined to have the team in 4th place 15 points clear of the team in 7th  

I would worry what you will do when flat track bully leaves - no one else in the team reached double figures ( Barkley the highest with 6 )
		
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You asked how our strikers did so I responded ? If you require further facts 

We had 4 in double figures - plus a further four more getting more than your second highest goalscorer. 

I was unaware of how important the Golden Boot ? I thought it was all about league positions and once again you find yourselves lower down the table even with a 20 plus goal striker - what does that say about the rest of the team ? Relying on one player to score the goals doesn't seem like a good idea to me 

But congrats on the important acolade of second highest scorer in the league - :thup:


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## guest100718 (May 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You asked how our strikers did so I responded ? If you require further facts 

We had 4 in double figures - plus a further four more getting more than your second highest goalscorer. 

I was unaware of how important the Golden Boot ? I thought it was all about league positions and once again you find yourselves lower down the table even with a 20 plus goal striker - what does that say about the rest of the team ? Relying on one player to score the goals doesn't seem like a good idea to me 

But congrats on the important acolade of second highest scorer in the league - :thup:
		
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we've got Alli.. dele Alli....


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## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

LP 2 - PaulDJ 0 :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			We won the league in November didn't we?

Anyway enjoy the Thursday night/sunday afternoon combo from the comfort of your armchair next season :whoo:
		
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I hope for your sake you get through CL qualifying ok. :rofl:

I'm over the moon with Thursday/Sunday combo, never expected european football next season :thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			LP 2 - PaulDJ 0 :rofl:
		
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He's answering Lord T soft lad, he's got me on ignore :ears:


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## Liverpoolphil (May 21, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			we've got Alli.. dele Alli....
		
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Congrats - I expect Madrid will think of a better song when he goes there. When is your presentation?


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## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			He's answering Lord T soft lad, he's got me on ignore :ears:
		
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Don't get excited you're not that important to be on ignore, he chose's when  to respond to you. LP has you in his pocket.


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## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I hope for your sake you get through CL qualifying ok. :rofl:

I'm over the moon with Thursday/Sunday combo, never expected european football next season :thup:
		
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Of course we will, finishing 4th gaurentees you getting the best players.........


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## fundy (May 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Of course we will, finishing 4th gaurentees you getting the best players.........
		
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just dont do it too many times


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## guest100718 (May 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Congrats - I expect Madrid will think of a better song when he goes there. When is your presentation?
		
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Haha yeah to they'll have to pay big bucks for dele the Liverpool fan.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Of course we will, finishing 4th gaurentees you getting the best players.........
		
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Has Sawtooth hacked your acct? 
When are you doing the open top bus tour with the 4th place trophy :rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Don't get excited you're not that important to be on ignore, he chose's when  to respond to you. LP has you in his pocket.
		
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He says I'm on ignore, but every so often when I push enough buttons he comes on and whinges, so maybe your correct and he's calling my bluff while secretly stalking me 

Best watch what I post :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (May 21, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			Haha yeah to they'll have to pay big bucks for dele the Liverpool fan.
		
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How much will it cost for Kane the Arsenal fan?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 21, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			Haha yeah to they'll have to pay big bucks for dele the Liverpool fan.
		
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I'm struggling to see your point that you're attempting to make ?


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## guest100718 (May 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm struggling to see your point that you're attempting to make ?
		
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No point. just laughing


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## guest100718 (May 21, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			How much will it cost for Kane the Arsenal fan?
		
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oh good one . but a billion  pounds


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## guest100718 (May 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm struggling to see your point that you're attempting to make ?
		
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aren't you disappointed that lfc let him get away ?


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## Liverbirdie (May 21, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			No point. just laughing
		
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Hey pad, next season you'll be in the position of seeing Spurs play at Wembley more than you ever have at White Hart Lane.

Must feel weird that.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 22, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			aren't you disappointed that lfc let him get away ?
		
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Of course but what is the relevance to the discussion about comparing Liverpool strikers to Lukaku ? 

Aren't you a little disappointed that it's Spurs best season for 3/4 decades and they still won "zero" trophies.


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## guest100718 (May 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Of course but what is the relevance to the discussion about comparing Liverpool strikers to Lukaku ? 

Aren't you a little disappointed that it's Spurs best season for 3/4 decades and they still won "zero" trophies.
		
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No not at all


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## guest100718 (May 22, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Hey pad, next season you'll be in the position of seeing Spurs play at Wembley more than you ever have at White Hart Lane.

Must feel weird that.

Click to expand...

perhaps we can squeeze in some of the 10 of  1000s of plastic scousers


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Of course but what is the relevance to the discussion about comparing Liverpool strikers to Lukaku ? 

Aren't you a little disappointed that it's Spurs best season for 3/4 decades and they still won "zero" trophies.
		
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You haven't got any strikers fit to lace Lukaku's boots, having your midfielders do well and score goals still doesn't change the fact you have none.
Still better to deflect and take the p1ss out of us and Spurs than face your own issues. :thup:


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## Lord Tyrion (May 22, 2017)

I bailed out last night, good to see not a single decent point was made by any reds after I left, ha ha &#128513;. 

Season's over, bring on the transfer window.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 22, 2017)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.fo...assing-football-world-mocks-john-13068867.amp

Is it up there with his CL final full kit ?


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.fo...assing-football-world-mocks-john-13068867.amp

Is it up there with his CL final full kit ?
		
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You do remember all the crap we went through with Slippy when he retired and he was no where near as succesful as John Terry. You're embarrassing yourself :thup:


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## guest100718 (May 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			You do remember all the crap we went through with Slippy when he retired and he was no where near as succesful as John Terry. You're embarrassing yourself :thup:
		
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Ah the Stevie G farewall tour.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 22, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			Ah the Stevie G farewall tour.
		
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Yep, Sky TV specials and all sorts, the media's favourite failure.


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## Stuart_C (May 22, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I bailed out last night, good to see not a single decent point was made by any reds after I left, ha ha &#128513;. 

Season's over, bring on the transfer window.
		
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No point talking to ourselves is there? Do you wanna carry it on?


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## Lord Tyrion (May 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			No point talking to ourselves is there? Do you wanna carry it on?
		
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Not really mate. I think that one has been squeezed to death now. Were you supping in The Stanley yesterday? It is my cousins drinking hole match day. I was in there a few months ago worshipping at the shrine of Jamie C, ha ha. 

Let's get on to laughing about the JT love in. I hope the PFA get involved. Apparently he has been a great servant throughout his career. There was me thinking he was paid millions every year.


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## Stuart_C (May 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			You do remember all the crap we went through with Slippy when he retired and he was no where near as succesful as John Terry. You're embarrassing yourself :thup:
		
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You're clutching at straws here mush. None of that was arranged by Gerrard, he was Liverpool and England captain and one of the greatest footballers ever to be produced in this country.  I'm not sure he'd have wanted the circus that followed him for those few months unlike that yesterday for Terry. 



guest100718 said:



			Ah the Stevie G farewall tour.
		
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It was embarrassing tbf, imagine if he'd organised it all himself though



pauldj42 said:



			Yep, Sky TV specials and all sorts, the media's favourite failure.
		
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There's one thing Gerrard as player wasn't and that's a failure. You're talking pony now mush, go and have a lie down.


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## Stuart_C (May 22, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Not really mate. I think that one has been squeezed to death now. *Were you supping in The Stanley yesterday? It is my cousins drinking hole match day. I was in there a few months ago worshipping at the shrine of Jamie C, ha ha. *

Let's get on to laughing about the JT love in. I hope the PFA get involved. Apparently he has been a great servant throughout his career. There was me thinking he was paid millions every year.
		
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Boooooooooooooooooooooooo


No Ive not been in there for a few years as its the other side of the ground to where my ST is in the kemlyn. 

I believe the brick has a shrine to Yernited players though,. ....... #onceabluealwaysamanc :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (May 22, 2017)

Anyone seen sawtooth and Freddielong


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			You're clutching at straws here mush. None of that was arranged by Gerrard, he was Liverpool and England captain and one of the greatest footballers ever to be produced in this country.  I'm not sure he'd have wanted the circus that followed him for those few months unlike that yesterday for Terry. 



It was embarrassing tbf, imagine if he'd organised it all himself though



There's one thing Gerrard as player wasn't and that's a failure. You're talking pony now mush, go and have a lie down.
		
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So your saying Terry planned all that?

Have a look at the same record book for Gerrard and you'll see Terry has won just as much or even  more, Terry is rated as one of the greatest english centre halves of modern football, also captained his country, stayed loyal to one club etc, in fact I don't think there's anything Gerrard did that Terry didn't.

Take off the bitter red specs and take a look, by all means have a go at Chelsea, but you can't blame the player.

Everytime the media talk about Gerrard the main point is always the regret of him not winning the PL medal he so richly deserved, crap, he didn't win one because he never played for a team that was good enough to win the title

Gerrard was a superb footballer, but putting Terry down is just as ridiculous and nothing more than sour grapes.


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## guest100718 (May 22, 2017)

yes terry planned the whole thing apparently


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## Pin-seeker (May 22, 2017)

Nice to see the Liverpool fans talking the usual tripe about other teams/players. 

Not be long until the poor us card comes out when they get it back.


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## anotherdouble (May 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.fo...assing-football-world-mocks-john-13068867.amp

Is it up there with his CL final full kit ?
		
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What's your point. so what if Terry wants to go over the top. is it really any skin off your nose


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## sawtooth (May 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Anyone seen sawtooth and Freddielong 

Click to expand...

Yeah why? I stopped by last night you must have been busy talking about Lukaku to notice. 

Still very much behind Wenger and next year is our year!!!


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## User62651 (May 22, 2017)

What's next for JT then - dont think China or US will appeal to him whilst there are several EPL clubs leaking a lot of goals - Swansea 70, Watford 68, Bournemouth 67 that could make use of JTs organisational skills for at least a season you'd think.


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## Stuart_C (May 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			So your saying Terry planned all that?

Have a look at the same record book for Gerrard and you'll see Terry has won just as much or even  more, Terry is rated as one of the greatest english centre halves of modern football, also captained his country, stayed loyal to one club etc, in fact I don't think there's anything Gerrard did that Terry didn't.

Take off the bitter red specs and take a look, by all means have a go at Chelsea, but you can't blame the player.

Everytime the media talk about Gerrard the main point is always the regret of him not winning the PL medal he so richly deserved, crap, he didn't win one because he never played for a team that was good enough to win the title

Gerrard was a superb footballer, but putting Terry down is just as ridiculous and nothing more than sour grapes.
		
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I think you need to research before you start spouting pony. 

It's widely reported that Terry organised all of that yesterday, going off after 26mins is embarrassing. 

I havent put Terry down for his football ability of what he's achieved.He's been a fantasic defender for both club and country and has been part of some top sides aswell, none of that  questioning. 

How about playing the full game and going off in the 90th minute to a well deserved rapturous applause from all the fans and players instead of what happened yesterday?

Just my opinion like but I think he's done to massage his massive ego.

You called Gerrard a failure because he never won a league, so if every other player who doesn't win the league are they failures? Are  the likes of kieran Richardson and Darren Fletcher all time great players because they were bit part players for yernited?

There's only one person whose bitter wearing specs and it's not me.


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## Stuart_C (May 22, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah why? I stopped by last night you must have been busy talking about Lukaku to notice. 

Still very much behind Wenger and next year is our year!!!
		
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Just glad you havent flounced on us after yesterday. 

Are we going to discuss Arsenal and wenger or shall we wait til the Sunningdale trip and we'll discuss it over a pint like grown ups and leave the morons to points score on here?


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I think you need to research before you start spouting pony. 

It's widely reported that Terry organised all of that yesterday, going off after 26mins is embarrassing. 

I havent put Terry down for his football ability of what he's achieved.He's been a fantasic defender for both club and country and has been part of some top sides aswell, none of that  questioning. 

How about playing the full game and going off in the 90th minute to a well deserved rapturous applause from all the fans and players instead of what happened yesterday?

Just my opinion like but I think he's done to massage his massive ego.

You called Gerrard a failure because he never won a league, so if every other player who doesn't win the league are they failures? Are  the likes of kieran Richardson and Darren Fletcher all time great players because they were bit part players for yernited?

There's only one person whose bitter wearing specs and it's not me.
		
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Were has it been widely reported? The reports I saw and read stated the Club kept it secret as they wanted to do something special to recognise him.

You have remember Stu, this is once again in response to Phil posting and stepping back, as others have asked, what's the problem?

You can't slag Terry off without remembering the rubbish (which you acknowleged) went on around Gerrard.

I've acknowledged Gerrards ability and took club allegiance out of it. 

Phils post are nothing more than trolling.

See you next season mate :thup:


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## Lord Tyrion (May 22, 2017)

Bournemouth makes sense to me. Probably would not have to move home, stable club, play nice football. Play a year or two there, pack up.


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## sawtooth (May 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Just glad you havent flounced on us after yesterday. 

Are we going to discuss Arsenal and wenger or shall we wait til the Sunningdale trip and we'll discuss it over a pint like grown ups and leave the morons to points score on here?
		
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I am not on the Sunningdale trip it might have to wait till HFH. 

I'm well used to the banter on here by now and I'm not going anywhere until Wenger wins the league again. :clap:


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## Liverbirdie (May 22, 2017)

Right.......what shall I change my signature to........Hmmmm.

Any suggestions, Robin?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 22, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			What's your point. so what if Terry wants to go over the top. is it really any skin off your nose
		
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Does that mean because it doesn't directly affect me then I can't post how embarrassing I believe it is on a thread about football ? Can I only post about my own club - when people posted that ridiculous celebration with Klopp at West Brom should I have posted a similar response 

The point is that it sums up Terry perfectly , a number of great players have retired over the weekend , most just retire with a bit of grace , acknowledge the crowd and that's it - Terry himself decides to come up with this elaborate embarrassing moment so that he can become the centre of attention and it was laughable - as a football fan I find it embarrassing to the sport and expect other sports fans to be laughing at it all - but it's par for the course for him just like his changing into full kit in the CL final - embarrassing. And then the speech - did find it amusing him talking about his wife etc - shame he wasn't thinking of her when he was wife a teammates wife. Terry will be remembered as a superb captain and centre back - shame he was unable to show any humility during that time.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Were has it been widely reported? The reports I saw and read stated the Club kept it secret as they wanted to do something special to recognise him.

You have remember Stu, this is once again in response to Phil posting and stepping back, as others have asked, what's the problem?

You can't slag Terry off without remembering the rubbish (which you acknowleged) went on around Gerrard.

I've acknowledged Gerrards ability and took club allegiance out of it. 

Phils post are nothing more than trolling.

See you next season mate :thup:
		
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You really do have a problem - posting and stepping back ?! Sorry was I supposed to wait around whilst you composed your expected response ? 

It was all over Sky News that it was Terry's idea so as Stu says maybe check the facts before going off on one.

And as for me trolling - I got an radical idea for you as you seem to be constantly getting hot under the collar whenever I post - Ignore what I post , it's not compulsory to read what I post and it certainly isn't compulsory to respond to every thing I post on here , it almost seems like you have an obsession with anything I post and that you must respond - you don't , im very rarely going to reply to what you say because it's not worth the hassle - you're as bad as pin seeker now with his constant posting to anything I post , it's almost like an infatuation- just time to give it all a rest and step back.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You really do have a problem - posting and stepping back ?! Sorry was I supposed to wait around whilst you composed your expected response ? 

It was all over Sky News that it was Terry's idea so as Stu says maybe check the facts before going off on one.

And as for me trolling - I got an radical idea for you as you seem to be constantly getting hot under the collar whenever I post - Ignore what I post , it's not compulsory to read what I post and it certainly isn't compulsory to respond to every thing I post on here , it almost seems like you have an obsession with anything I post and that you must respond - you don't , im very rarely going to reply to what you say because it's not worth the hassle - you're as bad as pin seeker now with his constant posting to anything I post , it's almost like an infatuation- just time to give it all a rest and step back.
		
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Provide 1 link proving Terry organised this and I'd happy apologise, it's rumours started by opposition fans, 
You never said one decent word about Terry until pushed, just bitterness, you're quick to question other peoples posts and ask for facts, I take ityou don't like it when it's on the other foot, 
Stu, Lord T and me were having banter over Lukaku, you come in and make it bitter and start petty point scoring, I will also compliment and agree with your posts when warranted, but once again you choose to miss those posts.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Provide 1 link proving Terry organised this and I'd happy apologise, it's rumours started by opposition fans, 
You never said one decent word about Terry until pushed, just bitterness, you're quick to question other peoples posts and ask for facts, I take ityou don't like it when it's on the other foot, 
Stu, Lord T and me were having banter over Lukaku, you come in and make it bitter and start petty point scoring, I will also compliment and agree with your posts when warranted, but once again you choose to miss those posts.
		
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http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39994193


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39994193

Click to expand...

John Terry asked to be subbed in the 26th minute, he knew nothing about the guard of honour and the other stuff as he walked off, I have been responding to your first post in which you askedwhy he didn't just get an ovation like the 2 Bayern players.

If you only meant the sub part of it I apologize for thinking you meant all of it, guard of honour etc.


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## Stuart_C (May 22, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I am not on the Sunningdale trip it might have to wait till HFH. 

I'm well used to the banter on here by now and I'm not going anywhere until Wenger wins the league again. :clap:
		
Click to expand...

That's a shame


----------



## Stuart_C (May 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			John Terry asked to be subbed in the 26th minute, he knew nothing about the guard of honour and the other stuff as he walked off, I have been responding to your first post in which you askedwhy he didn't just get an ovation like the 2 Bayern players.

If you only meant the sub part of it I apologize for thinking you meant all of it, guard of honour etc.
		
Click to expand...

Asking to be taken off in the 26th minute is embarrassing. The guard of honour and the applause and appreciation from his teammates is only to be expected for such  a leg end in a club.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (May 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Asking to be taken off in the 26th minute is embarrassing. The guard of honour and the applause and appreciation from his teammates is only to be expected for such  a leg end in a club.
		
Click to expand...

They gave him a guard of honour onto the pitch, why would anyone expect one during a game?


----------



## Stuart_C (May 22, 2017)

PDJ has had a mare here. 

I make it LP 4 PDJ 0 :rofl:


----------



## fundy (May 22, 2017)

good to see the shrewdies were on lol

BBC Sport  @BBCSport
One bookmaker has said three punters got odds of 100-1 for John Terry to be substituted in the 26th minute.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (May 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			PDJ has had a mare here. 

I make it LP 4 PDJ 0 :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

I'm big enough to apologize and acknowledge someone when they reply :thup:


----------



## Stuart_C (May 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			They gave him a guard of honour onto the pitch, why would anyone expect one during a game?
		
Click to expand...

Sorry that's what I meant but I never clearly stated it. A guard of honour before the game, play 90mins if injury allow then accept the applause and appreciation walking off.  

Them again it doesn't surprise me when you've got clubs doing a guard of honour for a manager who failed to win a trophy in 10yrs at a club :rofl:


----------



## Stuart_C (May 22, 2017)

fundy said:



			good to see the shrewdies were on lol

BBC Sport  @BBCSport
One bookmaker has said three punters got odds of 100-1 for John Terry to be substituted in the 26th minute.
		
Click to expand...

Joey Barton had Â£3.75 on it.


----------



## fundy (May 22, 2017)

how many are chelsea gonna score in the cup final lol

Arsenal have 4 recognised centre halfs (insert jokes here!)

Koscielny suspended, Mustafi concussed, Gabriel stretchered off at weekend and Mertesacker played once since pre season knee injury

Gonna be a horror show lol


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 22, 2017)

fundy said:



			how many are chelsea gonna score in the cup final lol

Arsenal have 4 recognised centre halfs (insert jokes here!)

Koscielny suspended, Mustafi concussed, Gabriel stretchered off at weekend and Mertesacker played once since pre season knee injury

Gonna be a horror show lol
		
Click to expand...

Think it's a bit unfair to miss cup final because of red card in a league game.


----------



## USER1999 (May 22, 2017)

fundy said:



			how many are chelsea gonna score in the cup final lol

Arsenal have 4 recognised centre halfs (insert jokes here!)

Koscielny suspended, Mustafi concussed, Gabriel stretchered off at weekend and Mertesacker played once since pre season knee injury

Gonna be a horror show lol
		
Click to expand...

You have forgotten Holding, who although young, is actually quite good. 

Monreal can play CH, but that means Gibbs starts, so not all good news.


----------



## anotherdouble (May 22, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			You have forgotten Holding, who although young, is actually quite good. 

Monreal can play CH, but that means Gibbs starts, so not all good news.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree with you murph re Holding. I have been impressed with what I have seen of him. In my eyes he will be far better than Stones


----------



## user2010 (May 22, 2017)

The Chosen One resigns from Sunderland!


----------



## SatchFan (May 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			PDJ has had a mare here. 

I make it LP 4 PDJ 0 :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Is that the current infraction score?


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 22, 2017)

Scrotie McBoogerballs said:



			The Chosen One resigns from Sunderland!
		
Click to expand...

What next for him? 
Surely no Prem team will touch him. 

Also Defoe could be on his way to Bournemouth.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 22, 2017)

Scrotie McBoogerballs said:



			The Chosen One resigns from Sunderland!
		
Click to expand...

I heard he's going back to everton because Koeman is going to BarÃ§a. 

Afterall he did say he'd have won the league had he Lukaku

The chosen one...... http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/...oads/3DF3855B-A39F-4574-8A1A-48E2CAA826CF.jpg


----------



## Kellfire (May 22, 2017)

Arsenal about to make a typically Arsene signing in a youngster from Belgium. 

His current manager is called Condom. True fact.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 22, 2017)

Arsenal have already made one signing - they have got another left back


----------



## Stuart_C (May 22, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Arsenal about to make a typically Arsene signing in a youngster from Belgium. 

His current manager is called Condom. True fact.
		
Click to expand...

Is his first name Jonny?

Soz I'll get my coat...


----------



## fundy (May 22, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Arsenal have already made one signing - they have got another left back
		
Click to expand...

hopefully means Gibbs is off!


----------



## fundy (May 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Is his first name Jonny?

Soz I'll get my coat...
		
Click to expand...

if hes a centre half can Johnny play at the weekend


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 22, 2017)

fundy said:



			hopefully means Gibbs is off!
		
Click to expand...

Prob Monreal on his way back to Spain


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (May 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I heard he's going back to everton because Koeman is going to BarÃ§a. 

Afterall he did say he'd have won the league had he Lukaku

The chosen one...... http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/...oads/3DF3855B-A39F-4574-8A1A-48E2CAA826CF.jpg

Click to expand...

Come on Stu, let it go mate, the obsession is verging on creepy now :ears:


----------



## HomerJSimpson (May 22, 2017)

Moyes resigns at Sunderland. I wonder if he jumped before being pushed. His CV is starting to look a little tarnished now and hardly had a good record over the last few years


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Is his first name Jonny?

Soz I'll get my coat...
		
Click to expand...

Maybe Arsene wrote him a french letter....


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 22, 2017)

The statement says he has not taken any money so at least that is a positive. I thought he would do well there but his whole attitude was negative from the beginning and he failed to lift the players or fans. 

I'm not sure where he will go next. He will practically have to start again as his reputation has been badly damaged recently. It will be Championship or abroad next I suspect.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 22, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The statement says he has not taken any money so at least that is a positive. I thought he would do well there but his whole attitude was negative from the beginning and he failed to lift the players or fans. 

I'm not sure where he will go next. He will practically have to start again as his reputation has been badly damaged recently. It will be Championship or abroad next I suspect.
		
Click to expand...

He shouldn't be compensated, he's failed again. 

He was talking yesterday about staying and rebuilding Sunderland and getting back into the PL what's changed less than 24hrs later?


----------



## Stuart_C (May 22, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Moyes resigns at Sunderland. I wonder if he jumped before being pushed. His CV is starting to look a little tarnished now and hardly had a good record over the last few years
		
Click to expand...

Nah definitely bailed, he wouldn't cut it in the championship.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (May 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			He shouldn't be compensated, he's failed again. 

He was talking yesterday about staying and rebuilding Sunderland and getting back into the PL what's changed less than 24hrs later?
		
Click to expand...

I reckon he's already got another job lined up, if he'd of made them sack him he'd of got a pay off, resigning and saving them money, never heard of anyone else do that. Something dodgy going on.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 22, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I reckon he's already got another job lined up, if he'd of made them sack him he'd of got a pay off, resigning and saving them money, never heard of anyone else do that. Something dodgy going on.
		
Click to expand...

I told you before, back to Everton 

I honestly don't seee him going to anyone with maybe Watford being the exception.


----------



## garyinderry (May 22, 2017)

Lovern got away with one yesterday.   pure home decision there.   lineman didn't fancy taking stick for the rest of the game.  


Poor.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 22, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Lovern got away with one yesterday.   pure home decision there.   lineman didn't fancy taking stick for the rest of the game.  


Poor.
		
Click to expand...

Give over, bamford got in front of Lovren and slowed down so he ran into the back of him, he had nowhere else to go.

If that's a pen the games finished.


----------



## garyinderry (May 22, 2017)

He slipped in behind him and lovern was extremely clumsy.  Bamford doesn't have to race clear in that position. Lovern must evade him and go around.  He was scrambling and brought him down.  


Suppose it makes up for all the decisions you boys have been crying about all season long.  Well the ones Pete has anyway. :rofl: 

Its done now, no going back but he was one lucky boy.


----------



## Junior (May 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Is his first name Jonny?

Soz I'll get my coat...
		
Click to expand...

Worse than my joke in Fraggers thread


----------



## Stuart_C (May 23, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			He slipped in behind him and lovern was extremely clumsy.  Bamford doesn't have to race clear in that position. Lovern must evade him and go around.  He was scrambling and brought him down.  


Suppose it makes up for all the decisions you boys have been crying about all season long.  Well the ones Pete has anyway. :rofl: 

Its done now, no going back but he was one lucky boy.
		
Click to expand...

One things for sure, if it was a Liverpool player  in bamfords position I'd be crying for a pen  :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			He shouldn't be compensated, he's failed again. 

He was talking yesterday about staying and rebuilding Sunderland and getting back into the PL what's changed less than 24hrs later?
		
Click to expand...

It doesn't work that way though does it. I remember De Matteo playing golf for three years and getting paid by Chelsea after they sacked him. That's how football contracts work.

Part of me is disappointed that he has jumped ship without a fight, part of me wonders if he was fed a story by Sunderland and they failed to deliver on their part. It definitely goes down as a black mark though and his stock really is rock bottom.

I'm not sure I'd be recommending the Sunderland job to anyone. Big debt, poor team that were gutless. The Boro are a better proposition than Sunderland if you are applying for a job.


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 23, 2017)

Looks like Big Sam is off. 
But where to??


----------



## Hobbit (May 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Give over, bamford got in front of Lovren and slowed down so he ran into the back of him, he had nowhere else to go.

If that's a pen the games finished.
		
Click to expand...

Bamford can do what he wants if he's between Lovern and the ball. Since when has slowing down been a foul?

Penalty all day long....actually first contact was outside the area but I'll still take the pen.


----------



## user2010 (May 23, 2017)

Just who is this *Lovern* that garyinderry and Hobbit keep talking about?


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## Slime (May 23, 2017)

Scrotie McBoogerballs said:



			Just who is this *Lovern* that garyinderry and Hobbit keep talking about?

Click to expand...

I think he's a good mate of Jack Wiltshere


----------



## user2010 (May 23, 2017)

Slime said:



			I think he's a good mate of Jack Wiltshere 

Click to expand...



Ha ha, nice one, yeah probably.:thup:


----------



## Kellfire (May 24, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Bamford can do what he wants if he's between Lovern and the ball.
		
Click to expand...


Only if he's in control of the ball. I haven't seen the event myself, but if Bamford slows down enough so that he is no longer deemed to be in reach of the ball and/or in control of it, he's committing a foul by blocking Lovren off.

But as I said, I haven't seen the incident!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 24, 2017)

7-8 times out of 10 that would be a penalty. At Old Trafford, under Fergie, Giggs as the runner, 10 times out of 10 that would have been a penalty.

Seasons ended though, no football worth watching now until August.


----------



## Kellfire (May 24, 2017)

Having now seen it, it was close to Bamford but he was never in control of it... Tough call but I'd say penalty personally.


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 24, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Having now seen it, it was close to Bamford but he was never in control of it... Tough call but I'd say penalty personally.
		
Click to expand...

Think it was a foul and very clumsy but it was outside the box , how's that a penalty.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 24, 2017)

Brilliant result for Utd


----------



## Stuart_C (May 24, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Brilliant result for Utd
		
Click to expand...

I agree.


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## davemc1 (May 24, 2017)

Brilliant result for the mighty reds, and too win to nil is a bonus!

goals from studge, Moreno and Firmino against a strong Sydney fc side :thup:



Oh an it looks like them other shower have won me Â£50


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## Stuart_C (May 24, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			Brilliant result for the mighty reds, and too win to nil is a bonus!

goals from studge, Moreno and Firmino against a strong Sydney fc side :thup:



Oh an it looks like them other shower have won me Â£50
		
Click to expand...

Â£44 actually, dirty blood money


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## davemc1 (May 24, 2017)

Thought we worked it out at 54? but I'm not greedy. Ganton could get messy


----------



## Stuart_C (May 24, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			Thought we worked it out at 54? but I'm not greedy. Ganton could get messy 

Click to expand...

Â£10 @ 12/5 and Â£10 @ Evs = Â£44


----------



## davemc1 (May 24, 2017)

10 at 12/5 = 34
10 at evs = 20

do the math...


----------



## Kellfire (May 24, 2017)

Ten at evens is a tenner profit. 
Ten at 12/5 is Â£24 profit. 

You won Â£34.


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## Stuart_C (May 24, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			10 at 12/5 = 34
10 at evs = 20

do the math...
		
Click to expand...

God loves a trier


----------



## Stuart_C (May 24, 2017)

Rooney holding aloft the Europa league is a sight to behold,Yernited's captain a scouser born and bred :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## Slime (May 24, 2017)

That was 90 minutes that decided whether United had a disastrous season or a bloody good one.
They had a good one!!
I hate to say it, but I thought Fellaini had a really good game.
Very pleased for Romero too.
I'll sleep well tonight.


----------



## Fish (May 25, 2017)

So what has this done to the league positions if anything for CL qualifications?


----------



## Imurg (May 25, 2017)

As I understand it.......
ManU go straight to the group stages as do Chelsea, Spurs and City and, I believe, Liverpool go to the qualifying group stage..
So 5 in the CL.....


----------



## Stuart_C (May 25, 2017)

Nothing really, if Ajax had won we'd have gone straight in the group stages but  we're seeded anyway.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 25, 2017)

Anyone seen the Terry interview justifying his send off? Unbelievably arrogant and self centred.


----------



## Junior (May 25, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Rooney holding aloft the Europa league is a sight to behold,Yernited's captain a scouser born and bred :rofl: :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, but he saw the light......perhaps it was reflecting of all the premier league trophies at the time :ears::rofl:


----------



## Doon frae Troon (May 25, 2017)

Slime said:



			That was 90 minutes that decided whether United had a disastrous season or a bloody good one.
They had a good one!!
I hate to say it, but I thought Fellaini had a really good game.
Very pleased for Romero too.
I'll sleep well tonight.
		
Click to expand...

I love Fellaini, top player in EPL in my opinion.

I told my grandson to watch just him and his movement for 10 minutes of a game. you should try it.
The amount of ground he covers in his 'lazy' stride is astonishing.


----------



## Kellfire (May 25, 2017)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I love Fellaini, top player in EPL in my opinion.
		
Click to expand...

If you're judging him by SPL standards I guess...


----------



## User62651 (May 25, 2017)

Odd game last night, Ajax passed it around ok but were toothless final third, Utd gave maximum effort and bullied Ajax out of it, were worthy winners. So many missed passes and passes to marked players though, Pogba in particular has to do better next season. Rashford needs to learn to get up quick and play the whistle not just lie there hoping for a free kick or pen.
Well done Utd though, quite an easy win in the end in difficult circumstances I thought.


----------



## huds1475 (May 25, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Anyone seen the Terry interview justifying his send off? Unbelievably arrogant and self centred.
		
Click to expand...

What else would you expect.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 25, 2017)

I didn't expect the level he got to. Well beyond the norm. Just a huge long way up himself.


----------



## Slime (May 25, 2017)

I hear that Chelsea have cancelled their open top bus celebration, which is totally understandable, but I bet John Terry will get someone to drive him through London in a convertible car whilst wearing his Chelsea kit .

He's such a 
	
	
		
		
	


	




 .


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 25, 2017)

Slime, no one is going to beat that post, ha ha :clap:


----------



## fundy (May 25, 2017)

http://www.scmp.com/sport/soccer/ar...ely-forget-china-move-after-shock-new-100-tax

Interesting article on chinese football, costa staying at chelsea now?


----------



## Stuart_C (May 25, 2017)

Junior said:



			Yeah, but he saw the light......perhaps it was reflecting of all the premier league trophies at the time :ears::rofl:
		
Click to expand...

How does it feel having a scouser as your captain?:rofl:


----------



## Junior (May 25, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			How does it feel having a scouser as your captain?:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

 

Honestly, it does not bother me one bit.  Not in the slightest.  He's been a fantastic servant to the club for over 10 years and was an integral part of our success in the late naughties.  He's quite the decorated player in terms of what he has won with the club and whilst not my favourite player the last couple of years, you can't knock him and his record.


----------



## pbrown7582 (May 25, 2017)

Imurg said:



			As I understand it.......
ManU go straight to the group stages as do Chelsea, Spurs and City and, I believe, Liverpool go to the qualifying group stage..
So 5 in the CL.....
		
Click to expand...

Or maybe just 4..... 


:rofl:


----------



## HomerJSimpson (May 25, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			Or maybe just 4..... 


:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Sky try to explain it http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ue-clubs-face-in-champions-league-group-stage


----------



## pbrown7582 (May 26, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sky try to explain it http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ue-clubs-face-in-champions-league-group-stage

Click to expand...


its ok I understand the process but its 4 in group stages definitely and maybe 5


----------



## pbrown7582 (May 26, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			How does it feel having a scouser as your captain?:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

not for much longer.........


----------



## ColchesterFC (May 26, 2017)

I saw the photo below on an "On this day..." post today. Did anyone else realise that Rory McGrath captained Bayern Munich in the 1982 European Cup Final against Aston Villa.......


----------



## Kellfire (May 27, 2017)

Poor refereeing and poor commentating. Ramsey turned and briefly made for the ball, clearly meaning that Courtois now had to try to close down two players. That means Ramsey is interfering. Offside. Shouldn't have been a goal.


----------



## Fish (May 27, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Poor refereeing and poor commentating. Ramsey turned and briefly made for the ball, clearly meaning that Courtois now had to try to close down two players. That means Ramsey is interfering. Offside. Shouldn't have been a goal.
		
Click to expand...

It's hand ball, the balls gonie forward off his arm, that's the poor decision. 

Everyone is saying it wasn't offside, but I was of the impression that if you went for ball, which Ramsey did but then stopped, he's then made himself active, it's a stupid rule but it's a rule and I think he's too close to the ball and ran towards it for him not to be active!

Other than that we're pretty crap anyway.


----------



## USER1999 (May 27, 2017)

Stupid dive. Idiot.


----------



## Fish (May 27, 2017)

Shocking from Moses, I thought we still had a goal in us but that's let the team down big style.


----------



## SteveW86 (May 27, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Stupid dive. Idiot.
		
Click to expand...

Indeed!

But good for football in general that the ref had the balls to give the second booking and send him off. Many others would have just given nothing


----------



## Slime (May 27, 2017)

Victor Moses ........................ what a cheese!
If you're going to dive, make it look like a foul. That was just pathetic and a good decision by the ref.
You'd have thought he'd have taken lessons from Hazard before trying it in a cup final.
Shame on the lad.


----------



## Fish (May 27, 2017)

Yesssss


----------



## USER1999 (May 27, 2017)

Poor keeping. Why is Czech not olaying.


----------



## Old Skier (May 27, 2017)

Fish said:



			Yesssss
		
Click to expand...


Oh dear


----------



## USER1999 (May 27, 2017)

Yessss.


----------



## sawtooth (May 27, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Poor keeping. Why is Czech not olaying.
		
Click to expand...

You're such a muppet


----------



## USER1999 (May 27, 2017)

Why, he is arsenals no 1. Its a final. Play your best keeper.


----------



## Slime (May 27, 2017)

There's still time for Xhaka to get a red.
The strange thing is that I'm now finding that I actually want Arsenal to win.
I have no idea why ............... as long as Wenger still signs a new deal.


----------



## sawtooth (May 27, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Why, he is arsenals no 1. Its a final. Play your best keeper.
		
Click to expand...

Because it took you less than 20 secs to write your Wenger hate post, did you cut and paste it?


----------



## Fish (May 27, 2017)

If I was an Arsenal fan I'd be asking where this performance has been all season?


----------



## fundy (May 27, 2017)

Fish said:



			If I was an Arsenal fan I'd be asking where this performance has been all season?
		
Click to expand...

bit like you were with your lot all last season?


----------



## Kellfire (May 27, 2017)

Sums up Ozil's season, that finish.


----------



## sawtooth (May 27, 2017)

Fish said:



			If I was an Arsenal fan I'd be asking where this performance has been all season?
		
Click to expand...

We develop our teams so they take a while to gel, you buy yours ready made.


----------



## Fish (May 27, 2017)

fundy said:



			bit like you were with your lot all last season?
		
Click to expand...

We're not talking about my lot, but as you've mentioned it, are you saying that the players haven't been playing for Wenger?


----------



## fundy (May 27, 2017)

Fish said:



			We're not talking about my lot, but as you've mentioned it, are you saying that the players haven't been playing for Wenger?
		
Click to expand...

been saying it for months mate


----------



## sawtooth (May 27, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Sums up Ozil's season, that finish.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah like his record 12 assists in one game the other day?!


----------



## anotherdouble (May 27, 2017)

Very good performance from Arsenal today. The two reserves have been immense namely ospina and mertasaker. Hope this means Wenger stays as you can play like this in one off games but are no threat over 38


----------



## Fish (May 27, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			We develop our teams so they take a while to gel, you buy yours ready made.
		
Click to expand...

Your deluded again, players leave you to go on and win bigger and better things after they soon realise they won't by staying. 

How long does it take to develop and how long have you been devolving this side to win this FA Cup &#129300;


----------



## anotherdouble (May 27, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah like his record 12 assists in one game the other day?!
		
Click to expand...

When did you score 12 in a game


----------



## sawtooth (May 27, 2017)

Fish said:



			Your deluded again, players leave you to go on and win bigger and better things after they soon realise they won't by staying. 

How long does it take to develop and how long have you been devolving this side to win this FA Cup &#129300;
		
Click to expand...

About as long as your history started, 11 years ago.&#128077;


----------



## Fish (May 27, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Very good performance from Arsenal today. The two reserves have been immense namely ospina and mertasaker. Hope this means Wenger stays as you can play like this in one off games but are no threat over 38
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, this was the cunning plan, it's now a successful season so Wenger will stay, hopefully &#128540;&#128514;


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## anotherdouble (May 27, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			About as long as your history started, 11 years ago.&#128077;
		
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How do you work that out may I ask


----------



## sawtooth (May 27, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			When did you score 12 in a game
		
Click to expand...

Chance creation , you knew what I meant.;-)


----------



## Fish (May 27, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			About as long as your history started, 11 years ago.&#128077;
		
Click to expand...

Our history goes back bigger and better than yours, so get yer facts right or do I need to post that video again.


----------



## fundy (May 27, 2017)

Great performance (despite missing so many chances), shame those levels of effort been sorely lacking for many months. The defense been great, especially Monreal and the BFG in his first start for a year

Hopefully Wenger decides this is a great high point to leave on 

She wore, she wore, she wore a yellow ribbon


----------



## USER1999 (May 27, 2017)

Job done.


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## anotherdouble (May 27, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Chance creation , you knew what I meant.;-)
		
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An assist is only when you score so that's why I asked the question


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## sawtooth (May 27, 2017)

Get in there:whoo:

Totally outclassed Chelsea and thoroughly deserved. And Moses my God what was that!?


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## Piece (May 27, 2017)

That was a good Arsenal performance. However, Arsenal always play well given space. Chelsea look like they were still on John Terry's leaving do.


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## One Planer (May 27, 2017)

#wengerin :thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 27, 2017)

Good game for us nuetrals, not the results I thought would happen, unfortunately as much as all Arsenal fans should just simply enjoy tonight I think some will see it as a poison chalice.


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## sawtooth (May 27, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			How do you work that out may I ask
		
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Another day mate, I don't want to talk about Chelsea now.


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## Fish (May 27, 2017)

fundy said:



			Great performance (despite missing so many chances), shame those levels of effort been sorely lacking for many months. The defense been great, especially Monreal and the BFG in his first start for a year

Hopefully Wenger decides this is a great high point to leave on 

She wore, she wore, she wore a yellow ribbon 

Click to expand...

Yes a very good and surprising performance, I said at the club earlier, form counts for nothing in a cup final and with Arsenal being written off all week they rallied and the defence was excellent. 

Early contraversal goal but that aside we didn't turn up all day. 

Let's hope Wenger now stays, I think he might have found a new system to play, but could go they play like that for 38 matches  &#128540;


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## fundy (May 27, 2017)

John Terry rumoured to have asked Arsenal if he can still lift the cup haha


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## Fish (May 27, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Another day mate, I don't want to talk about Chelsea now.
		
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We're not talking about Chelsea, although they were just playing yous, but 12 assists in 1 match &#128514;&#128514;&#128514; only when someone scores do they count, or did he complete 12 passes &#128514;&#128514; 

The acid test for someone like him for me is, would we buy him, No. Would City buy him, No. Would Utd buy him, No. Would Spurs buy him, No. So he ain't all that is he??


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## sawtooth (May 27, 2017)

Fish said:



			We're not talking about Chelsea, although they were just playing yous, but 12 assists in 1 match &#128514;&#128514;&#128514; only when someone scores do they count, or did he complete 12 passes &#128514;&#128514; 

The acid test for someone like him for me is, would we buy him, No. Would City buy him, No. Would Utd buy him, No. Would Spurs buy him, No. So he ain't all that is he??
		
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Why don't you run a report on crowd violence instead we've not had that yet. &#128077;


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## Fish (May 27, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Why don't you run a report on crowd violence instead we've not had that yet. &#128077;
		
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What you on about and whats that got to do with anything being discussed, or is that just a deflection because you have no defence,


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## sawtooth (May 27, 2017)

Fish said:



			What you on about and whats that got to do with anything being discussed, or is that just a deflection because you have no defence,
		
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Because that's all you talk about


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## USER1999 (May 27, 2017)

What a final. Great stuff. Rivetting. What footy should be.


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## anotherdouble (May 27, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			What a final. Great stuff. Rivetting. What footy should be.
		
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Agree Murph. Pity Moses had a stupid rush of blood and tried to cheat


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## sawtooth (May 27, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Agree Murph. Pity Moses had a stupid rush of blood and tried to cheat
		
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Did cheat.


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## Fish (May 27, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Because that's all you talk about
		
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Hmm, so it was a deflection then because you realised what a stupid comment it was and had no defence for it, 12 assists in 1 match, pathetic deluded and blinkered as always.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 27, 2017)

Well done Arsenal but how poor were Chelsea compared to their PL season? Well played to the ref for having the balls to book Moses for simulation. No idea what this does for the Wenger situation although in my opinion I think he'll stay


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## anotherdouble (May 27, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Did cheat.
		
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I still say tried to because he got caught


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## Fish (May 27, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Well done Arsenal but how poor were Chelsea compared to their PL season? Well played to the ref for having the balls to book Moses for simulation. No idea what this does for the Wenger situation although in my opinion I think he'll stay
		
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Well that's the kiss of death &#128545;


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## sawtooth (May 27, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			I still say tried to because he got caught
		
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Got caught cheating?


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## HomerJSimpson (May 27, 2017)

Fish said:



			Well that's the kiss of death &#128545;
		
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No way. He's made enough noises to tease the fans that he'll stay and I think the win will be enough to convince the board.


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## Fish (May 27, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Got caught cheating?
		
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He tried to cheat and got caught, we've all stated he cheated but your semantics over a single word is just arguing for the sakes of it, grow up!


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## anotherdouble (May 27, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Got caught cheating?
		
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Both amount to the same. You must of read the Liverpool phil book of posting


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## Fish (May 27, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			No way. He's made enough noises to tease the fans that he'll stay and I think the win will be enough to convince the board.
		
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We don't want him to go, but your predictions are, well, very unreliable.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 27, 2017)

Fish said:



			We don't want him to go, but your predictions are, well, very unreliable.
		
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Like my golf. I've stuck Â£10 on him staying though


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## Lord Tyrion (May 27, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Well done Arsenal but how poor were Chelsea compared to their PL season? Well played to the ref for having the balls to book Moses for simulation. No idea what this does for the Wenger situation although in my opinion I think he'll stay
		
Click to expand...

Wenger will stay and the other top teams will cheer because Arsenal will continue to under perform and fail to threaten for the title. Wenger moves, they get a Conte like manager and suddenly Arsenal will start to frighten the big boys, as they should.


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## USER1999 (May 27, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Wenger will stay and the other top teams will cheer because Arsenal will continue to under perform and fail to threaten for the title. Wenger moves, they get a Conte like manager and suddenly Arsenal will start to frighten the big boys, as they should.
		
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I could have written this, as could Fundy. Wenger has been an amazing manager, but everything has an end, and this should be it.


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## Rlburnside (May 27, 2017)

Never thought I'd be willing Arsenal to win the cup but that was a great performance by them and deserved to win,very poor from Chelsea and glad they lost.

 Great game to watch and credit to Wenger for tacticly getting it right on the day.


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## fundy (May 27, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Well done Arsenal but how poor were Chelsea compared to their PL season? Well played to the ref for having the balls to book Moses for simulation. No idea what this does for the Wenger situation although in my opinion I think he'll stay
		
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Hallelujah, jinx Homer has spoken


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## guest100718 (May 27, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Both amount to the same. You must of read the Liverpool phil book of posting
		
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What did he do?

ah he dived


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## anotherdouble (May 27, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			What did he do?

ah he dived
		
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:clap::clap::clap: for being this weeks most observant poster. Don't think anybody else saw the dive. Well done sir


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## Slime (May 27, 2017)

Who'd have thought, nine months of largely poor football and United end up having a far, far more successful season than all the teams above them except Chelsea.
Unbelievable Jeff!


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## anotherdouble (May 27, 2017)

Slime said:



			Who'd have thought, nine months of largely poor football and United end up having a far, far more successful season than all the teams above them except Chelsea.
Unbelievable Jeff!
		
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Especially as you go straight into the group stages of CL


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## pbrown7582 (May 27, 2017)

Slime said:



			Who'd have thought, nine months of largely poor football and United end up having a far, far more successful season than all the teams above them except Chelsea.
Unbelievable Jeff!
		
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:rofl:


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## guest100718 (May 27, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			:clap::clap::clap: for being this weeks most observant poster. Don't think anybody else saw the dive. Well done sir
		
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i didn't watch the match
.. 
been working all day. 

now on.my way home on what seems like the official arsenal supporters train. 

COYS


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## guest100718 (May 27, 2017)

Slime said:



			Who'd have thought, nine months of largely poor football and United end up having a far, far more successful season than all the teams above them except Chelsea.
Unbelievable Jeff!
		
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ha ha what a load of bs.


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## Slime (May 27, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			ha ha what a load of bs.
		
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Okay, please make a decent argument as to why my comments were BS.
What's that .................... you can't?
Apology accepted :thup:.


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## guest100718 (May 27, 2017)

Slime said:



			Okay, please make a decent argument as to why my comments were BS.
What's that .................... you can't?
Apology accepted :thup:.
		
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there's no need . we all know


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## davemc1 (May 27, 2017)

With the exception of City, anyone else in the top 10 unhappy as to how the season unfolded?


especially if Arsene leaves....


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## Slime (May 27, 2017)

Slime said:



			Okay, please make a decent argument as to why my comments were BS.
		
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guest100718 said:



			there's no need . we all know
		
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I didn't think you could .


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## clubchamp98 (May 28, 2017)

Great final for the neutral but where has that fight been from Arsenal all season.
Chelsea already on the beach.
Chances missed was really poor from Arsenal they should have scored much more.
Well done the ref credit where it's due.
Diving must be stamped out lets hope this is the start.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 28, 2017)

Ref the question of how successful the season was for Utd. Two trophies, very good no question. Have Utd fans enjoyed the season though? Genuinely, has it been a pleasure in the way it has for Chelsea and Spurs fans?


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 28, 2017)

Spurs have played great football and absolutely deserved 2nd place,  imo, Utd have had a far better season, they may not have played the best football but they have a new manager who in his first season has got them 2 trophies and CL football next season, what's not to be happy about that.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 28, 2017)

The dullfest the fans have had to sit through?


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## pbrown7582 (May 28, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The dullfest the fans have had to sit through?
		
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The days out at Wembley and in Stockholm and coming home with &#127942;&#127942; make those pragmatic 6 man defensive display disappear over the horizon!

I know what season I would sooner have..... Do I remember which year we nearly won something? No but winning trophies I can recall each and everyone!


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 28, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The dullfest the fans have had to sit through?
		
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What do the records books show, what's in the trophy cabinet?


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 28, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			The days out at Wembley and in Stockholm and coming home with &#127942;&#127942; make those pragmatic 6 man defensive display disappear over the horizon!

I know what season I would sooner have..... Do I remember which year we nearly won something? No but winning trophies I can recall each and everyone!
		
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I take it Jose's not too bad after all


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## Fish (May 28, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I take it Jose's not too bad after all 

Click to expand...

Fickle fans &#128540;


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 28, 2017)

Fish said:



			Fickle fans &#128540;
		
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I'm sure if someone searched this thread you'd not find one Utd fan asking for Jose as manager, I do remember a lot of whineing, couldn't of been Brownie though :rofl:


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## pbrown7582 (May 28, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I'm sure if someone searched this thread you'd not find one Utd fan asking for Jose as manager, I do remember a lot of whineing, couldn't of been Brownie though :rofl:
		
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Guilty as charged I have been proved wrong! Hold my hand up. 
No hiding the fact its all there on the thread somewhere. 

The football hasn't been as dire generally as some have made out. 
Yes there have been park the bus displays but it's not all been like that and &#127480;&#127466; Was a great day out for me and the boy. 
Nice to complete the set. &#128521;


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## pbrown7582 (May 28, 2017)

Fish said:



			Fickle fans &#128540;
		
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Judas.......... &#128521;


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## Rlburnside (May 28, 2017)

Fish said:



			Fickle fans &#63004;
		
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Thats rich coming from a Chelsea fan


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## sawtooth (May 28, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			Thats rich coming from a Chelsea fan 

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Every club has them I'm afraid. Arsenal for sure and even  a few on here.

Treatment of Wenger this year in particular has been disgusting and shameful by some but they were probably out last night having a good time in his name.


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## Rlburnside (May 28, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Every club has them I'm afraid. Arsenal for sure and even  a few on here.

Treatment of Wenger this year in particular has been disgusting and shameful by some but they were probably out last night having a good time in his name.
		
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Your right all teams have them,some Spurs fans were to quick to turn on the team in the past.

Chelseas maybe a extreme case after booing Hazard, Costa etc and helping to get the manager sacked then lauding them as heroes this season.


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## fundy (May 28, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Every club has them I'm afraid. Arsenal for sure and even  a few on here.

Treatment of Wenger this year in particular has been disgusting and shameful by some but they were probably out last night having a good time in his name.
		
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id love you to show the posts where arsenal fans have been "shameful and disgusting" towards Wenger on here. Plenty of us have questioned his future yes (and still do)


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## sawtooth (May 28, 2017)

fundy said:



			id love you to show the posts where arsenal fans have been "shameful and disgusting" towards Wenger on here. Plenty of us have questioned his future yes (and still do)
		
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I was speaking generally about the shameful behaviour, flying banners, Arsenal Fan TV, Wenger Out posters, radio phone ins, etc.

I've read one or two things on here that have crossed the line a bit, continuous sniping and bitching as well which in itself is a mark of disrespect to a man that has served the club so superbly over the last 20 years. And "questioning future" is one way to put it lol.


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## paddyc (May 28, 2017)

I would like him to finish on a high. Absolutely respect what he has done for the club, this has been the poorest season for many years regardless of yesterdays win. Certain no shameful comments from Arsenal fans on here. Thanks for the memories Arsene but change is needed. Yesterdays performance just papers over the cracks in a terrible season. I think apart from the two wins against Chelsea and the semi final win against City we have played poorly and snatched wins and draws without playing well. Had a good run towards end of the season but it was too late and that was only beating teams with nothing to play for including Man U who were focusing on the Europa League.
Go with grace and dignity now and get Eddie Howe in. I like him a lot. Intelligent young manager with class ideal for Arsenal. Has no less experience than Wenger did when he first came to Arsenal!


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## Stuart_C (May 28, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I was speaking generally about the shameful behaviour, flying banners, Arsenal Fan TV, Wenger Out posters, radio phone ins, etc.

I've read one or two things on here that have crossed the line a bit, continuous sniping and bitching as well which in itself is a mark of disrespect to a man that has served the club so superbly over the last 20 years. And "questioning future" is one way to put it lol.
		
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Respect works both ways doesn't it. You're very disrespectful of Chelsea's achievements. 

I agree some of the wenger out banners and calling for the managers head inside the stadium  is wrong.

It's about time you showed respect to those lads who go on  Arsenal fan TV  as they put the Hard yards in following that team home and away. I think it's a good platform  for fans imo. They have the club in their heart and they only want the best for the club, they're also entitled to their opinion.


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## fundy (May 28, 2017)

paddyc said:



			I would like him to finish on a high. Absolutely respect what he has done for the club, this has been the poorest season for many years regardless of yesterdays win. Certain no shameful comments from Arsenal fans on here. Thanks for the memories Arsene but change is needed. Yesterdays performance just papers over the cracks in a terrible season. I think apart from the two wins against Chelsea and the semi final win against City we have played poorly and snatched wins and draws without playing well. Had a good run towards end of the season but it was too late and that was only beating teams with nothing to play for including Man U who were focusing on the Europa League.
Go with grace and dignity now and get Eddie Howe in. I like him a lot. Intelligent young manager with class ideal for Arsenal. Has no less experience than Wenger did when he first came to Arsenal!
		
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well said Pat upto the Eddie Howe part, jury still out there for me


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## sawtooth (May 28, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Respect works both ways doesn't it. You're very disrespectful of Chelsea's achievements. 

I agree some of the wenger out banners and calling for the managers head inside the stadium  is wrong.

It's about time you showed respect to those lads who go on  Arsenal fan TV  as they put the Hard yards in following that team home and away. I think it's a good platform  for fans imo. They have the club in their heart and they only want the best for the club, they're also entitled to their opinion.
		
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Read back through posts Stu 99.9% of my Chelsea posts come as a result of inflammatory comments and remarks about Arsenal. 

Same with Liverpool. 

Some supporters on here of those clubs have a few too many things to say about Arsenal that are only designed to flare so I give some back.

Yeah and ISIS supporters over here are entitled to their opinions as well but that doesn't make what they say right or decent does it?

And those who are privileged to go to games week in week out does not give them the right to be disrespectful.


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## Stuart_C (May 28, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Read back through posts Stu 99.9% of my Chelsea posts come as a result of inflammatory comments and remarks about Arsenal. 

Same with Liverpool. 

Some supporters on here of those clubs have a few too many things to say about Arsenal that are only designed to flare so I give some back.

Yeah and ISIS supporters over here are entitled to their opinions as well but that doesn't make what they say right or decent does it?

And those who are privileged to go to games week in week out does not give them the right to be disrespectful.
		
Click to expand...

A pretty childish response, I had you down as better.

Unless you mean it, why post it?


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 28, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Read back through posts Stu 99.9% of my Chelsea posts come as a result of inflammatory comments and remarks about Arsenal. 

Same with Liverpool. 

Some supporters on here of those clubs have a few too many things to say about Arsenal that are only designed to flare so I give some back.

Yeah and ISIS supporters over here are entitled to their opinions as well but that doesn't make what they say right or decent does it?

And those who are privileged to go to games week in week out does not give them the right to be disrespectful.
		
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Chelsea and Liverpool supporters being compared to ISIS supporters, WOW, you've certainly lost the plot on that one.

Disgraceful comparison which ever way you try to explain it.


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## sawtooth (May 28, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			A pretty childish response, I had you down as better.

Unless you mean it, why post it?
		
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??? I mean everything I say. Did you misinterpret what I posted?


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## sawtooth (May 28, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Chelsea and Liverpool supporters being compared to ISIS supporters, WOW, you've certainly lost the plot on that one.

Disgraceful comparison which ever way you try to explain it.
		
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What?!?!


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## paddyc (May 28, 2017)

fundy said:



			well said Pat upto the Eddie Howe part, jury still out there for me
		
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Who do want to see in the hot seat big man?

I would have liked Klopp before he went to Liverpool.

Allegri at Juventus has been mentioned.
Marc Overmars/Bergkamp also mentioned.
Thierry Henry ??

Big Sam needs a club.:whoo:


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## fundy (May 28, 2017)

paddyc said:



			Who do want to see in the hot seat big man?

I would have liked Klopp before he went to Liverpool.

Allegri at Juventus has been mentioned.
Marc Overmars/Bergkamp also mentioned.
Thierry Henry ??

Big Sam needs a club.:whoo:
		
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honest answer is i really dont have a clue, struggling to think of someone over here I would want but thats been the problem for ages hasnt it. Tuchel or Allegri maybe?


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## USER1999 (May 28, 2017)

Jardim from Monaco would do fine by me.


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## guest100718 (May 28, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Spurs have played great football and absolutely deserved 2nd place,  imo, Utd have had a far better season, they may not have played the best football but they have a new manager who in his first season has got them 2 trophies and CL football next season, what's not to be happy about that.
		
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yes they can be happy.. but we have it rammed down our throats that the league cup and Europa cup are 2nd rate comps that no one wants to play in let alone win.. sorry good season for most, but for UTD to be so far off challenging for the the top 4 let alone the league  ...  ...
....
..


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## sawtooth (May 29, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			yes they can be happy.. but we have it rammed down our throats that the league cup and Europa cup are 2nd rate comps that no one wants to play in let alone win.. sorry good season for most, but for UTD to be so far off challenging for the the top 4 let alone the league  ...  ...
....
..
		
Click to expand...

Europa League is second rate, everyone could see UTD winning it a while ago as they were easily the strongest team left in it. CL is the one you want to be in and I hope to God that Wenger plays kids in it this year. I have a funny feeling that he wont treat it with much seriousness much like the domestic league cup.


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## anotherdouble (May 29, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Europa League is second rate, everyone could see UTD winning it a while ago as they were easily the strongest team left in it. CL is the one you want to be in and I hope to God that Wenger plays kids in it this year. I have a funny feeling that he wont treat it with much seriousness much like the domestic league cup.
		
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But, like Utd this year, winning the Europa League could be your only way back into the champions League, so perhaps wanting Wenger to play the kids could be you cutting your nose to spite your face.


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## sawtooth (May 29, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			But, like Utd this year, winning the Europa League could be your only way back into the champions League, so perhaps wanting Wenger to play the kids could be you cutting your nose to spite your face.
		
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True but I doubt United would have given it the respect it did had their top 4 status been nailed on a while ago. Fact is that they had no choice really as soon as it became apparent that missing top 4 was a real possibility.

If Arsenal start well in the league and it comes down to prioritising League or EL then I am pretty confident that Wenger will play a second team in EL and do the opposite of Mourinho.

Infact it really would not surprise me that he plays kids from the outset.


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## Papas1982 (May 29, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			True but I doubt United would have given it the respect it did had their top 4 status been nailed on a while ago. Fact is that they had no choice really as soon as it became apparent that missing top 4 was a real possibility.

If Arsenal start well in the league and it comes down to prioritising League or EL then I am pretty confident that Wenger will play a second team in EL and do the opposite of Mourinho.

Infact it really would not surprise me that he plays kids from the outset.
		
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So you really believe if you get to a European semi final and top four is in doubt he'd risk it for a league position?

if he did, then He's foolish. I believe your reserves will likely get you through the groups anyway. But if Wenger stays I think he will know there is a large enough portion of fans who at least have concerns so won't want too many bad results.


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## sawtooth (May 29, 2017)

No if we get to the semi final then it will be probably because we are looking like finishing 5th or lower in the league and therefore it will have a totally different focus.

IMO the EL will be the european. equivalent of the domestic league cup in Wengers eyes. Very much a non event unless things are going pear shaped in the league. Take stock in December/ January and see what the position is then. Kids will probably get us through the first stages anyway but there is no way that he play a full strength first team in early stages.


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## fundy (May 29, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			But, like Utd this year, winning the Europa League could be your only way back into the champions League, so perhaps wanting Wenger to play the kids could be you cutting your nose to spite your face.
		
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who are these kids we are supposed to be playing, arsenals squad tiny compared to how it used to be, dont have the volume of decent youngsters that were there before thats for sure


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## sawtooth (May 29, 2017)

fundy said:



			who are these kids we are supposed to be playing, arsenals squad tiny compared to how it used to be, dont have the volume of decent youngsters that were there before thats for sure
		
Click to expand...

They're mostly out on loan but quite a few promising ones Nwakali, Bielik, Zelalem, Akpom, Iwobi, Reine-Adelaide, Crowley, Campbell, Bennacer, not all will come in but expect 2-3 will.

Might see Schnezy back as well after a decent loan spell at Roma.


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## anotherdouble (May 29, 2017)

fundy said:



			who are these kids we are supposed to be playing, arsenals squad tiny compared to how it used to be, dont have the volume of decent youngsters that were there before thats for sure
		
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Fundy I never originally mentioned the kids. I was quoting sawtooth's post


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## Liverpoolphil (May 30, 2017)

Thomas Tuchel has left Dortmund! Maybe on his way to Arsenal ? That would worry me as he appears to be a quality manager who would improve Arsenal


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## fundy (May 30, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Thomas Tuchel has left Dortmund! Maybe on his way to Arsenal ? That would worry me as he appears to be a quality manager who would improve Arsenal
		
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would be great if it hadnt come at the same time as rumours Wenger has signed a new 2 year deal which is about to be ratified by the board and announced tomorrow


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## Liverpoolphil (May 30, 2017)

fundy said:



			would be great if it hadnt come at the same time as rumours Wenger has signed a new 2 year deal which is about to be ratified by the board and announced tomorrow
		
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Phew that's good then - wonder where Tuchel will end up - Inter maybe


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## fundy (May 30, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Phew that's good then - wonder where Tuchel will end up - Inter maybe
		
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still holding out with some hope the rumours arent true here lol


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## USER1999 (May 30, 2017)

Announced in the telegraph, so probably true. 2 more years of ground hog day.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 30, 2017)

A couple of young Chelsea strikers are looking to move on to get a chance of first team football. Solanke to Liverpool and Abraham to either Brighton or Newcastle. It will be interesting to see if they go through and how they progress. It would be good to see Loftus Cheek move on as well, let's see if he is as good as they hope.


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## Dan2501 (May 30, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Phew that's good then - wonder where Tuchel will end up - Inter maybe
		
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Could end up at Roma. They've just sacked Spalletti despite recording their highest ever points and goals total and after securing automatic qualification to the CL Group Stage.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 30, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Could end up at Roma. They've just sacked Spalletti despite recording their highest ever points and goals total and after securing automatic qualification to the CL Group Stage.
		
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Spaletti rumoured to have had talks in regards the Inter job and not signing a new contract - also was eyeing a job in China


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 30, 2017)

BBC Sport Breaking News - Arsenal confirm Wenger has signed a 2 year deal.


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## Dan2501 (May 30, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			BBC Sport Breaking News - Arsenal confirm Wenger has signed a 2 year deal.
		
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Haha. The man is unsackable. They're going backwards and he's still keeping his job. Just hope Sanchez and Ozil leave now.


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## One Planer (May 30, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			BBC Sport Breaking News - Arsenal confirm Wenger has signed a 2 year deal.
		
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Where's Fundy?


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## fundy (May 30, 2017)

One Planer said:



			:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Where's Fundy?
		
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posted above mate, so sigh  at least sawtooth will be happy with us underachieving for another 2 years


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## Liverpoolphil (May 30, 2017)

That's good news :whoo:


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## fundy (May 30, 2017)

not sure i understand why fans of other clubs are so happy, sums up football fans i guess


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## sawtooth (May 30, 2017)

fundy said:



			posted above mate, so sigh  at least sawtooth will be happy with us underachieving for another 2 years
		
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Yes mate over the moon with that. Lump on now for the title next year, you read it here first. :whoo:


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## Stuart_C (May 30, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			BBC Sport Breaking News - Arsenal confirm Wenger has signed a 2 year deal.
		
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And another 2years of Wenger blud an Wenger fam on Arsenal fan TV  innit :rofl:


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## HomerJSimpson (May 30, 2017)

Seems definite http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40073103

Feel its a very negative decision by the board personally but we'll have to wait and see. Can't see the Europa campaign on Thursday nights helping much


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## Stuart_C (May 30, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yes mate over the moon with that. Lump on now for the title next year, you read it here first. :whoo:
		
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I've already backed them for the title and I've set my reminder to cash out in February just before the wheels fall off


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## fundy (May 30, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yes mate over the moon with that. Lump on now for the title next year, you read it here first. :whoo:
		
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hahahaha

at the prices ill be backing chelsea again it seems


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## fundy (May 30, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I've already backed them for the title and I've set my reminder to cash out in February just before the wheels fall off 

Click to expand...

shouldve said youd have got a bigger price at fundy365


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## sawtooth (May 30, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			And another 2years of Wenger blud an Wenger fam on Arsenal fan TV  innit :rofl:
		
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Hopefully those scumbags crawl back under the rock they came from. No way to treat a club legend. Thankfully a tiny minority.


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## Stuart_C (May 30, 2017)

fundy said:



			shouldve said youd have got a bigger price at fundy365 

Click to expand...

Do you offer cash out?


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## fundy (May 30, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Do you offer cash out?
		
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haha man up, have a bet and let it ride


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## Stuart_C (May 30, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Hopefully those scumbags crawl back under the rock they came from. No way to treat a club legend. Thankfully a tiny minority.
		
Click to expand...

Double post


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## PhilTheFragger (May 30, 2017)

fundy said:



			not sure i understand why fans of other clubs are so happy, sums up football fans i guess
		
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Tribal, The Spurs will be happy, as they see it as another 2 years where they can better The Arse nal

Personally if I were an Arsenal fan, id not be happy,


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## Liverpoolphil (May 30, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Hopefully those scumbags crawl back under the rock they came from. No way to treat a club legend. Thankfully a tiny minority.
		
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Still living in cloud cuckoo land I see - calling fans of the club who pay to go week in week out home and away as scumbags is disgraceful and to even suggest it's a tiny minority shows how much you are blinkered

The fact that fans of other clubs will be happy that Wenger is staying should tell you a story because it will be the same old story for Arsenal this year minus the CL last 16 thrashing


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## Stuart_C (May 30, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Hopefully those scumbags crawl back under the rock they came from. No way to treat a club legend. Thankfully a tiny minority.
		
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Oh dear. You've stopped even lower than I thought you ever could.


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## fundy (May 30, 2017)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Tribal, The Spurs will be happy, as they see it as another 2 years where they can better The Arse nal

Personally if I were an Arsenal fan, id not be happy,
		
Click to expand...

spurs fans i get, i do, its most of the others i struggle with lol


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## Stuart_C (May 30, 2017)

fundy said:



			haha man up, have a bet and let it ride 

Click to expand...

  It's the only time I ever cash out.  Gauranteed profit is good business no?


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## fundy (May 30, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



  It's the only time I ever cash out.  Gauranteed profit is good business no?
		
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Not really in a position to talk as someone who trades lol, that said using Bookies cash out is just giving money away at the prices they offer (if youre gonna back arsenal to lay then do it on the exchanges at least  )


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## Liverpoolphil (May 30, 2017)

fundy said:



			spurs fans i get, i do, its most of the others i struggle with lol
		
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Because I see Arsenal as a rival in the league and Wenger staying ensure imo that Arsenal won't improve which is good news for us


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## Dan2501 (May 30, 2017)

fundy said:



			spurs fans i get, i do, its most of the others i struggle with lol
		
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I find it hilarious because a lot of their fans are absolutely intolerable on Social Media, and so the prospect of them trying to spin another 2 years of mediocrity as success will be brilliant to see. It'll be even funnier if they lose Sanchez.


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## fundy (May 30, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			I find it hilarious because a lot of their fans are absolutely intolerable on Social Media, and so the prospect of them trying to spin another 2 years of mediocrity as success will be brilliant to see. It'll be even funnier if they lose Sanchez.
		
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and you support?


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## One Planer (May 30, 2017)

Rumoured to have Â£100M to spend in the summer.

...... It's a shame that he wont spend it.

Club Chairman's dream. A manager that doesn't like spending money.


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## Dan2501 (May 30, 2017)

He might spend some money. Managed to waste Â£96m pretty easily last year. That Â£55m he spent on Xhaka and Perez was money well spent.



fundy said:



			and you support?
		
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Everton, but what does that have to do with it?


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## fundy (May 30, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Everton, but what does that have to do with it?
		
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just curious


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## fundy (May 30, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Rumoured to have Â£100M to spend in the summer.

...... It's a shame that he wont spend it.

Club Chairman's dream. A manager that doesn't like spending money.
		
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was 200m last summer lol, and we got granit xhaka lol


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## anotherdouble (May 30, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			And another 2years of Wenger blud an Wenger fam on Arsenal fan TV  innit :rofl:
		
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Am with you fam all the way for 2 years of top viewing


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## sawtooth (May 30, 2017)

fundy said:



			was 200m last summer lol, and we got granit xhaka lol
		
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Xhaka has been great in the last 3rd of the season, getting used to the prem now and will be even better next year for us.


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## sawtooth (May 30, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because I see Arsenal as a rival in the league and Wenger staying ensure imo that Arsenal won't improve which is good news for us
		
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Yeah Liverpool should clean up with Klopp in charge. &#128521;


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## fundy (May 30, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Xhaka has been great in the last 3rd of the season, getting used to the prem now and will be even better next year for us.
		
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really?

32 games 2 goals 2 assists, shooting accuracy of 26% crossing accuracy of 19%. 77 tackles and 37 fouls  leading to 2 yellows and 5 reds

For 35m+ you define that as great? That or you are comparing him just to Coquelin and then I sort of understand it lol


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## One Planer (May 30, 2017)

fundy said:



			was 200m last summer lol, and we got granit xhaka lol
		
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Thank you for making my point :thup:


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## PhilTheFragger (May 30, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Thank you for making my point :thup:
		
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Oi, its rude to point !!
............................
............................

Ok ive alreadt got my coat on


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## Liverpoolphil (May 30, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah Liverpool should clean up with Klopp in charge. &#128521;
		
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In Klopps first full season he beat Arsenal twice and finished above them :thup: not bad against someone who has been managing in the Prem for two decades.


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## sawtooth (May 30, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In Klopps first full season he beat Arsenal twice and finished above them :thup: not bad against someone who has been managing in the Prem for two decades.
		
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Do you get a trophy for that?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 30, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Do you get a trophy for that?
		
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The same one for league performances that you have lauded Wenger for for the last 13 years :thup:


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## ColchesterFC (May 30, 2017)

Heard an arsenal fan on the radio supporting Wenger and saying for the first time in 20 years he'd failed by a couple of points. Is that the level of the fans expectation that top 4 is success? Would've thought that he's failed for the last 10 years, or however long it is since they last won the league.


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## fundy (May 30, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Heard an arsenal fan on the radio supporting Wenger and saying for the first time in 20 years he'd failed by a couple of points. *Is that the level of the fans expectation* that top 4 is success? Would've thought that he's failed for the last 10 years, or however long it is since they last won the league.
		
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thats the level of that fans (and some others), its not the level of many fans hence why plenty think he should be long gone


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## sawtooth (May 30, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Heard an arsenal fan on the radio supporting Wenger and saying for the first time in 20 years he'd failed by a couple of points. Is that the level of the fans expectation that top 4 is success? Would've thought that he's failed for the last 10 years, or however long it is since they last won the league.
		
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During any notmal 10 year period I would agree it's not been enough  but it's been far from normal. 

We've been through a huge and historic transition that happens once or twice in a clubs lifetime. Moving ground and paying for it meant that Arsenal had to sell players to balance the books.

Add to that Chelsea and Man City are doing their best to buy trophies and therefore making life very difficult for Arsenal and others.

Despite this Arsenal have remained as competitive as they could and still managed to qualify for top 4 when realistically only one space up for grabs every year. Plus we've managed to win a few FA cups along the way.

Things are different now and Arsenal do not need to sell anymore. It won't stop greedy players still wanting to leave but we will keep more quality players and recruit more. 

Some fans don't grasp the reality of the situation and believe that a new manager will bring more success than Wenger but Wenger is not the issue . Times have changed and we will all do well to hang onto the coat tails of Chelsea , City and Utd.  City have spent Â£75M already this Summer and we're not even out of May yet and that's on top of the Â£150M+ spent  last year. 

I'm not sure where some supporters expect us to be I really don't.  Wenger is our best hope operating on the budget at his disposal.

4th largest budget in the league and we are nearly always around 4th spot , it's not rocket science.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 30, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			During any notmal 10 year period I would agree it's not been enough  but it's been far from normal. 

We've been through a huge and historic transition that happens once or twice in a clubs lifetime. Moving ground and paying for it meant that Arsenal had to sell players to balance the books.

Add to that Chelsea and Man City are doing their best to buy trophies and therefore making life very difficult for Arsenal and others.

Despite this Arsenal have remained as competitive as they could and still managed to qualify for top 4 when realistically only one space up for grabs every year. Plus we've managed to win a few FA cups along the way.

Things are different now and Arsenal do not need to sell anymore. It won't stop greedy players still wanting to leave but we will keep more quality players and recruit more. 

Some fans don't grasp the reality of the situation and believe that a new manager will bring more success than Wenger but Wenger is not the issue . Times have changed and we will all do well to hang onto the coat tails of Chelsea , City and Utd.  City have spent Â£75M already this Summer and we're not even out of May yet and that's on top of the Â£150M+ spent  last year. 

I'm not sure where some supporters expect us to be I really don't.  Wenger is our best hope operating on the budget at his disposal.

4th largest budget in the league and we are nearly always around 4th spot , it's not rocket science.
		
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How big was Leicester budget when they won the league ? Spent more than Spurs and Liverpool last summer yet finished behind both ? Always looking for the money excuse 

Arsenal have had the money to spend its just been spent poorly , players aren't leaving Arsenal just for money , they are also leaving to win trophies

Arsenal aren't operating on some shoestring budget - they have spent plenty but imo poorly and there are better managers around that could spend the money available better


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## sawtooth (May 30, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How big was Leicester budget when they won the league ? Spent more than Spurs and Liverpool last summer yet finished behind both ? Always looking for the money excuse 

Arsenal have had the money to spend its just been spent poorly , players aren't leaving Arsenal just for money , they are also leaving to win trophies

Arsenal aren't operating on some shoestring budget - they have spent plenty but imo poorly and there are better managers around that could spend the money available better
		
Click to expand...

Leicester was a freak that none of us will see again in our lifetime.

Spurs had a couple of good seasons but won nothing and haven't won the league since 1961

Liverpool are not doing any better now than they did under Rodgers. Not won premier for over 25 years.


Arsenal spend a fortune but considerably less than Chelsea, City and United over that 10 year period.

Better managers like Klopp do you mean? Has he won anything outside Germany yet?


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## fundy (May 30, 2017)

time for a break from this thread till the season starts again, too many broken records


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## HomerJSimpson (May 30, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Leicester was a freak that none of us will see again in our lifetime.

Spurs had a couple of good seasons but won nothing and haven't won the league since 1961

Liverpool are not doing any better now than they did under Rodgers. Not won premier for over 25 years.


Arsenal spend a fortune but considerably less than Chelsea, City and United over that 10 year period.

Better managers like Klopp do you mean? Has he won anything outside Germany yet?
		
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Leicester was a one off. It's about troohy winning and why the PL is the ultimate domestic prize, surely a cup win is then second best over and above CL qualification or has the game really changed that much that top four is now more important for the financial clout it gives?


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## sawtooth (May 30, 2017)

fundy said:



			time for a break from this thread till the season starts again, too many broken records 

Click to expand...

Before you go, Mahrez to Arsenal?


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## fundy (May 30, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Before you go, Mahrez to Arsenal?
		
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not for me, decent enough player but would be a poor replacement for sanchez and doesnt get in alongside him, big plus is he knows premier league football but expect he comes with a too big price tag too


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## sawtooth (May 30, 2017)

fundy said:



			not for me, decent enough player but would be a poor replacement for sanchez and doesnt get in alongside him, big plus is he knows premier league football but expect he comes with a too big price tag too
		
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I'm not resigned to losing Sanchez yet, Mahrez would be an excellent addition to the squad and if he's not movitated completely by cash then we have a chance of landing him.


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## ColchesterFC (May 30, 2017)

What if he's motivated by winning the league title or the champions league. Would he choose Arsenal or would he choose Man City, Chelsea or Man Utd? But no doubt if he went to one of them you would say it's because of money.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 30, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I'm not resigned to losing Sanchez yet, Mahrez would be an excellent addition to the squad and if he's not movitated completely by cash then we have a chance of landing him.
		
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What about if he picks Chelse etc because he wants to win the league again? 

But do you see another attacking mid as a priority signing ?


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## Piece (May 30, 2017)

Could be wrong but I think that Mahrez will get a big club transfer and quickly disappear without trace.


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## guest100718 (May 30, 2017)

I see Barcelona have appointed a new manager, is it pochetino?


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## sawtooth (May 30, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What about if he picks Chelse etc because he wants to win the league again? 

But do you see another attacking mid as a priority signing ?
		
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Yeah probably, we will probably lose 1-2 and Mahrez is quality.

Still buy a keeper, striker and anything else that Wenger thinks is needed. When players like Mahrez come available most of the top teams will be interested.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 30, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah probably, we will probably lose 1-2 and Mahrez is quality.

Still buy a keeper, striker and anything else that Wenger thinks is needed. When players like* Mahrez come available most of the top teams will be interested.*

Click to expand...

I'm not so sure about that - don't see many bidding wars for him , right now he has had one good season and last summer big teams weren't trying to tempt him away with big bids


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 30, 2017)

fundy said:



			time for a break from this thread till the season starts again, too many broken records 

Click to expand...

:clap: :clap: :clap: Big thumbs up from me :thup:


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## sawtooth (May 30, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm not so sure about that - don't see many bidding wars for him , right now he has had one good season and last summer big teams weren't trying to tempt him away with big bids
		
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That's good news no competition&#128077;

He showed what he is capable of year before last and that's good enough for me.  A good age and can get even better.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 30, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			I see Barcelona have appointed a new manager, is it pochetino?
		
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Apparently not https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/may/29/barcelona-ernesto-valverde-new-manager


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## GreiginFife (May 30, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			I see Barcelona have appointed a new manager, is it pochetino?
		
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Valverde who left Bilbao last week. Another former player.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 30, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			That's good news no competition&#128077;

He showed what he is capable of year before last and that's good enough for me.  A good age and can get even better.
		
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Would that not say something if other top teams aren't looking at him ? 

Is he the marquee signing that would make a difference ? 

When you look at the players linked to Arsenal over the years - Draxler , Higuain two specific players - they are clear marquee top of the tree players that can move a club up a level - is Mahrez that player ?


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## Fish (May 30, 2017)

BREAKING: Sky sources report that Arsenal have agreed a Â£6.8m fee to sign striker Henry Onyekuru from Belgian side KAS Eupen .

Who? ðŸ¤”


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## sawtooth (May 30, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would that not say something if other top teams aren't looking at him ? 

Is he the marquee signing that would make a difference ? 

When you look at the players linked to Arsenal over the years - Draxler , Higuain two specific players - they are clear marquee top of the tree players that can move a club up a level - is Mahrez that player ?
		
Click to expand...

One player like Mahrez and a change of system can work wonders. Look how that transformed Chelsea last year with the addition of Kante.

But I expect 3 signings this summer and I know either Lacazette and Mbappe are on the striker list but doubt Arsenal could compete . Maybe a move for Joe Hart is also on the cards too.  Wenger will likely sign quality players that are ready for inclusion into the squad as quickly as possible. He probably only has 2 seasons to win the league or CL before he hangs up his Le Duvet.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 30, 2017)

Is Cech declining?


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## HomerJSimpson (May 30, 2017)

Fish said:



			BREAKING: Sky sources report that Arsenal have agreed a Â£6.8m fee to sign striker Henry Onyekuru from Belgian side KAS Eupen .

Who? ðŸ¤”
		
Click to expand...

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/henry-onyekuru/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/380415


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## jp5 (May 30, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Heard an arsenal fan on the radio supporting Wenger and saying for the first time in 20 years he'd failed by a couple of points.
		
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Think that highlights the problem at the club nowadays. Focus should be on the 18 points behind Chelsea we ended up, not the 1 behind Liverpool.

Not sure I can see Sanchez staying to play for 4th and the Europa League. Hope I'm wrong.


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## sawtooth (May 30, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Is Cech declining?
		
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Supposedly but I don't see it, not even that old really. Ospina might be going and that will force the issue. 

I would have Schnezy back from Roma he's done pretty well out there by all accounts.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 30, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			One player like Mahrez and a change of system can work wonders. Look how that transformed Chelsea last year with the addition of Kante.

But I expect 3 signings this summer and I know either Lacazette and Mbappe are on the striker list but doubt Arsenal could compete . Maybe a move for Joe Hart is also on the cards too.  Wenger will likely sign quality players that are ready for inclusion into the squad as quickly as possible. He probably only has 2 seasons to win the league or CL before he hangs up his Le Duvet.
		
Click to expand...

You have Cech who is still one of the best in the league why waste money on another keeper ?

If you think that Arsenal have any hope of getting someone like Mbappe then you are dreaming. 

Do you really think Wenger is going to change his system ?!


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## sawtooth (May 30, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You have Cech who is still one of the best in the league why waste money on another keeper ?

If you think that Arsenal have any hope of getting someone like Mbappe then you are dreaming. 

Do you really think Wenger is going to change his system ?!
		
Click to expand...

He already has changed it.

Wenger has been tracking Mbappe and enquired about him long before he became a household name but I agree I think he will go to Madrid or Barcelona. 

Ospina could be off and every team needs 2 quality goalkeepers. Personally I would take Schnezy back from loan and spend the money elsewhere.


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## Slime (May 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			One player like Mahrez and a change of system can work wonders. Look how that transformed Chelsea last year with the addition of Kante.

But I expect 3 signings this summer and I know either Lacazette and Mbappe are on the striker list but doubt Arsenal could compete . Maybe a move for Joe Hart is also on the cards too.  Wenger will likely sign quality players that are ready for inclusion into the squad as quickly as possible. *He probably only has 2 seasons to win the league or CL before he hangs up his Le Duvet.*

Click to expand...

He actually has only ONE year to win the CL because he's not in it next season.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			He already has changed it.

Wenger has been tracking Mbappe and enquired about him long before he became a household name but I agree I think he will go to Madrid or Barcelona. 

Ospina could be off and every team needs 2 quality goalkeepers. Personally I would take Schnezy back from loan and spend the money elsewhere.
		
Click to expand...

It seems Arsenal are always tracking and making enquiries about all these top players when they become big stars - so the question is , why don't they ever buy them before they become a big name ? It seems they are unwilling to take a risk , Wenger doesn't seem to want to spend the Â£20 to Â£30 mil on an young unknown with the potential that they become a global star , Ray Parlour was sayin that it's time for Wenger tonrealise it's not his money he is spending so he doesn't need to be safe with it


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## sawtooth (May 31, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It seems Arsenal are always tracking and making enquiries about all these top players when they become big stars - so the question is , why don't they ever buy them before they become a big name ? It seems they are unwilling to take a risk , Wenger doesn't seem to want to spend the Â£20 to Â£30 mil on an young unknown with the potential that they become a global star , Ray Parlour was sayin that it's time for Wenger tonrealise it's not his money he is spending so he doesn't need to be safe with it
		
Click to expand...

He can spend more now and we've seen that in the last few years. Maybe he should have spent Â£36M on Martial:ears:

You have to be very careful when you are spending the clubs money, just because they have a big price tag doesn't mean they are worth it. Look at Pogba , Stones, good players but are you telling me that they are worth Â£100M and Â£50M respectively?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			He can spend more now and we've seen that in the last few years. Maybe he should have spent Â£36M on Martial:ears:

You have to be very careful when you are spending the clubs money, just because they have a big price tag doesn't mean they are worth it. Look at Pogba , Stones, good players but are you telling me that they are worth Â£100M and Â£50M respectively?
		
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Martial is still a very good player - it's not his fault Maureen doesn't give him a run. 

The problem is Wenger is too careful - at times you have to take the risk on players and spend the money on someone who could flop or could rip the Prem apart. Pogba was overpriced but is a great player who will get better in the Prem but you can't use those as justification to not spend money taking a risk - Man City spent how much on Jesus ? A lot of money but they took the risk. 

If Arsenal were indeed tracking Mbappe why didn't they sign him or at least put a bid in for him ? They could have spent Â£40 mil on him two years ago but he is now a Â£100mil player 

The is reason why Arsenal should look at a Director of Football - take the player purchases out of Wengers hands


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## Papas1982 (May 31, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Martial is still a very good player - it's not his fault Maureen doesn't give him a run. 

The problem is Wenger is too careful - at times you have to take the risk on players and spend the money on someone who could flop or could rip the Prem apart. Pogba was overpriced but is a great player who will get better in the Prem but you can't use those as justification to not spend money taking a risk - Man City spent how much on Jesus ? A lot of money but they took the risk. 

If Arsenal were indeed tracking Mbappe why didn't they sign him or at least put a bid in for him ? They could have spent Â£40 mil on him two years ago but he is now a Â£100mil player 

The is reason why Arsenal should look at a Director of Football - take the player purchases out of Wengers hands
		
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Whilst im in agreement that  Wenger is too cautious. I think it's because Many of his better deals have been young or unknowns doing well, before teams caught up with scouting. He has bought many a flop and I think worries about it too much. 

From Oma what I can see online, the mbappe wasn't a case of not being willing to stump up the cash. It was when he was out of contract and he decided to resign with Monaco. 

I guess they they didn't think too highly of him as I'm sure a certain amount of cash could have been Spent on wages to convince him Arsenal was best.


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## USER1999 (May 31, 2017)

Mbappe did not want to come to Arsenal. Its that simple. He probably wants to win leagues and stuff.


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## Liverbirdie (May 31, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Martial is still a very good player - it's not his fault Maureen doesn't give him a run. 

The problem is Wenger is too careful - at times you have to take the risk on players and spend the money on someone who could flop or could rip the Prem apart. Pogba was overpriced but is a great player who will get better in the Prem but you can't use those as justification to not spend money taking a risk - Man City spent how much on Jesus ? A lot of money but they took the risk. 

If Arsenal were indeed tracking Mbappe why didn't they sign him or at least put a bid in for him ? They could have spent Â£40 mil on him two years ago but he is now a Â£100mil player 

The is reason why Arsenal should look at a Director of Football - take the player purchases out of Wengers hands
		
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I believe Ian Ayre is looking for a job again.

Arsene picking them, Ayre getting them over the line - match made in heaven.


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## sawtooth (May 31, 2017)

At last someone who sees it like me.

Former Arsenal goalkeeper Bob Wilson: "Without the Champions League, the only way is if you can compete salary-wise to attract the players.

"Chelsea bought the best player available last season in N'Golo Kante and Arsenal went for him too but came nowhere near the salary that Chelsea pay.

"Arsenal cannot compete with Manchester United, or Chelsea with all the money Roman Abramovich has, or Sheikh Mansour has at Manchester City - these are clubs who can manage to go into huge debt."


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## Fish (May 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			At last someone who sees it like me.

Former Arsenal goalkeeper Bob Wilson: "Without the Champions League, the only way is if you can compete salary-wise to attract the players.

"*Chelsea bought the best player available last season in N'Golo Kante and Arsenal went for him too but came nowhere near the salary that Chelsea pay*.

"Arsenal cannot compete with Manchester United, or Chelsea with all the money Roman Abramovich has, or Sheikh Mansour has at Manchester City - these are clubs who can manage to go into huge debt."
		
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So in today's market of PL wages that players get, you don't think Kante warranted Â£110,000.00 per week and that was too far a reach for Arsenal for a quality player?  

This isn't a question about wages per se as we all know some are unjustifiable, but they are what they are now and when looking at Ozil Â£140k, Sanchez Â£130k, Cech Â£110k and then when you compare Xhaka on Â£90k, I'd say Kante being proven in the PL was a great deal at Â£110k IMHO. 

IMO Kante would have given you far more a return than Ozil ever does, he's a 110% shift player, you can't say that about Ozil who gets paid Â£20k a week more!

So I don't think money is the excuse for not getting and winning over Kante.


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## sawtooth (May 31, 2017)

Fish said:



			So in today's market of PL wages that players get, you don't think Kante warranted Â£110,000.00 per week and that was too far a reach for Arsenal for a quality player?  

This isn't a question about wages per se as we all know some are unjustifiable, but they are what they are now and when looking at Ozil Â£140k, Sanchez Â£130k, Cech Â£110k and then when you compare Xhaka on Â£90k, I'd say Kante being proven in the PL was a great deal at Â£110k IMHO. 

IMO Kante would have given you far more a return than Ozil ever does, he's a 110% shift player, you can't say that about Ozil who gets paid Â£20k a week more!

So I don't think money is the excuse for not getting and winning over Kante.
		
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If we couldn't afford him we couldn't afford him. No doubt if had thought about selling a player to balance the books and offer Kante more then Chelsea would have gone even higher. No point entering a bidding war with Chelsea as there will only be one winner there.

The article also talks about FFP and Arsenals high wage bill. 

BTW Ozil is not a lazy player stats have proved that to be a bit of a myth, Also had we tied him down to a longer contract before he would be worth at least the same now than when we bought him. As it is he may be sold cheaply this year or leave on a free next year.

If I have one criticism of Wenger or Arsenal we should not be allowing players that we won't to keep run their contracts down to within a year.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			If we couldn't afford him we couldn't afford him. No doubt if had thought about selling a player to balance the books and offer Kante more then Chelsea would have gone even higher. No point entering a bidding war with Chelsea as there will only be one winner there.

The article also talks about FFP and Arsenals high wage bill. 

BTW Ozil is not a lazy player stats have proved that to be a bit of a myth, Also had we tied him down to a longer contract before he would be worth at least the same now than when we bought him. As it is he may be sold cheaply this year or leave on a free next year.

If I have one criticism of Wenger or Arsenal we should not be allowing players that we won't to keep run their contracts down to within a year.
		
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Arsenal have the highest priced match tickets and season tickets and are you really suggesting they couldn't afford Kante ? Isn't he on less at Chelsea than Arsenal pay Xhaka? All excuses again.


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## sawtooth (May 31, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Arsenal have the highest priced match tickets and season tickets and are you really suggesting they couldn't afford Kante ? Isn't he on less at Chelsea than Arsenal pay Xhaka? All excuses again.
		
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No Kante gets more and I think they offered him 5 years. 

What's Liverpools excuse for NEVER winning the premier league?&#128077;


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## Liverpoolphil (May 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			No Kante gets more and I think they offered him 5 years. 

What's Liverpools excuse for NEVER winning the premier league?ðŸ‘
		
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What difference does the amount of years matter ?! 

So the Xhaka fee was more and he is on Â£20k a week less so overall it balances out. 

Poor management at times , poor player purchases , poor tactics - you see I have no issue understanding and seeing why we have failed to win the league and instead of blaming money can see that a lot of the time it's the clubs fault .When it hasn't worked at least the club have tried to do something different as opposed to Arsenal who just do the same thing and ultimately have gone backwards. 

If I ask you the same question you will blame the money at Chelsea and City and will unable to see that a lot of the reason for Arsenal not winning the league over the last 13 years is Wenger


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## HomerJSimpson (May 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			No Kante gets more and I think they offered him 5 years. 

What's Liverpools excuse for NEVER winning the premier league?&#128077;
		
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Fair comment for those Liverpool fans (and other teams too) that seem obsessed with all things Arsenal. it suddenly seems Klopp getting CL football is progress and so not winning the league (or ever looking like doing so) is now progress. Wasn't that what Wenger delivered every year until this and then managed to win a trophy this season as a consolation. Is that even right? IS winning silverware now seen as a consolation prize to CL qualification?

Perhaps worrying about their own team first would be an answer and does seem to be some Arsenal knocking for the sake of it. Wenger has the cash. He has the green light to spend, lets see what he does with it and how they fare. As for not being in the CL it didn't seem to worry Chelsea or United too much in the longer term did it?


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## sawtooth (May 31, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What difference does the amount of years matter ?! 

So the Xhaka fee was more and he is on Â£20k a week less so overall it balances out. 

Poor management at times , poor player purchases , poor tactics - you see I have no issue understanding and seeing why we have failed to win the league and instead of blaming money can see that a lot of the time it's the clubs fault .When it hasn't worked at least the club have tried to do something different as opposed to Arsenal who just do the same thing and ultimately have gone backwards. 

If I ask you the same question you will blame the money at Chelsea and City and will unable to see that a lot of the reason for Arsenal not winning the league over the last 13 years is Wenger
		
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So answer me this one simple question.

Do you think City and Chelsea would have had their success in the past 10 years without the Biliions ploughed in by their rich owners?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			So answer me this one simple question.

Do you think City and Chelsea would have had their success in the past 10 years without the Biliions ploughed in by their rich owners?
		
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Nope they wouldn't have - but that doesn't mean it's an excuse to stop Arsenal winning as Man Utd have won the title and CL a number of times in that period , Liverpool have also won the CL , Leicester the title - it's all just a convienent excuse. If the money was spent better for both Liverpool and Arsenal then they could have got themselves a title to their name in the same period


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## sawtooth (May 31, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Nope they wouldn't have - but that doesn't mean it's an excuse to stop Arsenal winning as Man Utd have won the title and CL a number of times in that period , Liverpool have also won the CL , Leicester the title - it's all just a convienent excuse. If the money was spent better for both Liverpool and Arsenal then they could have got themselves a title to their name in the same period
		
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No that's right.

Now look back at the league tables and remove City and Chelsea from the past 12 years.

Arsenal would have won the league 4-5 times from recollection , Liverpool once and Spurs too.

Wake up and smell the coffee, the problem isn't Wenger, no more than it's Klopp or Pochettinos fault when they fail to deliver the big trophies in years to come.

Wenger is doing great.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			No that's right.

Now look back at the league tables and remove City and Chelsea from the past 12 years.

Arsenal would have won the league 4-5 times from recollection , Liverpool once and Spurs too.

Wake up and smell the coffee, the problem isn't Wenger, no more than it's Klopp or Pochettinos fault when they fail to deliver the big trophies in years to come.

Wenger is doing great.
		
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Arsenal finished 2nd at the end of the 2015/16 season , spent Â£86 mil net and then finished 5th

Chelsea finished 10th at the end of the 2015/16 season - spent Â£36 mil net then won the league 

So Arsenal spent more than Chelsea yet went backwards - how does that work when you believe it's all about the money , surely after spending more than Chelsea you should improve more yet Arsenal went backwards ! Maybe you need to stop looking at others to blame and start on your own front door and look at your own club - far too long have just deemed getting into top 4 as success when it should just be a stepping stone - the lack of improvement over the years is now the reason why Arsenal have gone backwards


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## HomerJSimpson (May 31, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Nope they wouldn't have - but that doesn't mean it's an excuse to stop Arsenal winning as Man Utd have won the title and CL a number of times in that period , Liverpool have also won the CL , Leicester the title - it's all just a convienent excuse. If the money was spent better for both Liverpool and Arsenal then they could have got themselves a title to their name in the same period
		
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You keep using Leicester as an example but that was a once in a lifetime outcome that will never be seen again, done solely by a "Band of Brothers" with a manger for whom every aligned perfectly. That will never happen again. As for the others, none of the PL winners would have done so without enormous spending. This will continue again this season but Arsenal at least have the opportunity to match. Whether they do, and whether they attract enough talent to win the PL or get to the CL again, remains to be seen


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## Papas1982 (May 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			No that's right.

Now look back at the league tables and remove City and Chelsea from the past 12 years.

Arsenal would have won the league 4-5 times from recollection , Liverpool once and Spurs too.

Wake up and smell the coffee, the problem isn't Wenger, no more than it's Klopp or Pochettinos fault when they fail to deliver the big trophies in years to come.

Wenger is doing great.
		
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If Chelsea and City didn't have the money UTD would likely have won the league for a decade without trouble. 

All the good players they lost out on would have gone to them and the league would be even more lopsided. 

The sugar daddies have made the league more competitive. Not less so. 

The problem is Wenger control over the club. He is totally different in his position than any other manager. He employed his own directors! The only other manager who had such control was Fergie. But he won things.


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## Papas1982 (May 31, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			You keep using Leicester as an example but that was a once in a lifetime outcome that will never be seen again, done solely by a "Band of Brothers" with a manger for whom every aligned perfectly. That will never happen again. As for the others, none of the PL winners would have done so without enormous spending. This will continue again this season but Arsenal at least have the opportunity to match. Whether they do, and whether they attract enough talent to win the PL or get to the CL again, remains to be seen
		
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Leicester won the league with 81 points I belive. Pretty sure that's about 16/22 for lowest titles winners. So whilst all teams underperformed to allow that to happen. Arsenal were top at xmas and blew their best chance. So it has some relevance. 

Arsenals total that that season wouldn't have won one prem title. Lots of previous runners up have beaten 81. So it helps to prove the fact that even when all was set up for Arsenal they still blew it. That's not because their rivals have too much money. Neither was it through massive injuries. So someone has to shoulder responsibility. And at all other clubs, that someone is the manager.


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## sawtooth (May 31, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Arsenal finished 2nd at the end of the 2015/16 season , spent Â£86 mil net and then finished 5th

Chelsea finished 10th at the end of the 2015/16 season - spent Â£36 mil net then won the league 

So Arsenal spent more than Chelsea yet went backwards - how does that work when you believe it's all about the money , surely after spending more than Chelsea you should improve more yet Arsenal went backwards ! Maybe you need to stop looking at others to blame and start on your own front door and look at your own club - far too long have just deemed getting into top 4 as success when it should just be a stepping stone - the lack of improvement over the years is now the reason why Arsenal have gone backwards
		
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Because you conveniently didn't take into account the accumulation of money spent in previous transfer windows. It's a known and indisputable fact that Chelsea, City and Utd have spent substantially more than Arsenal over the past 10 years or more.

To make it really easy to understand, If club A spends Â£200M this Summer and club B spends Â£40M , then in January club A spends only Â£36M but club B spends Â£86M who should be doing better?


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## sawtooth (May 31, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Fair comment for those Liverpool fans (and other teams too) that seem obsessed with all things Arsenal. it suddenly seems Klopp getting CL football is progress and so not winning the league (or ever looking like doing so) is now progress. Wasn't that what Wenger delivered every year until this and then managed to win a trophy this season as a consolation. Is that even right? IS winning silverware now seen as a consolation prize to CL qualification?

Perhaps worrying about their own team first would be an answer and does seem to be some Arsenal knocking for the sake of it. Wenger has the cash. He has the green light to spend, lets see what he does with it and how they fare. As for not being in the CL it didn't seem to worry Chelsea or United too much in the longer term did it?
		
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He has more cash Homer but still has to work within a budget. We still can't spend like other clubs.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			He has more cash Homer but still has to work within a budget. We still can't spend like other clubs.
		
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But in relative terms it's a huge kitty for him to spend, certainly compared to the constraints he's had before. If I was going to be objective as an outsider with no PL affinity, the issue I see is attracting the very top player to the club, especially this season with no CL lure. That isn't to say he won't make very good signings. It's just to say they are never going to get a Griezmann etc. and so while others are getting the very best, it then makes the gulf in quality bigger and bigger. That's a problem everyone outside Chelsea, City and United will face and bridging that gap is the biggest obstacle to being a PL contender. That isn't going to change


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## sawtooth (May 31, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But in relative terms it's a huge kitty for him to spend, certainly compared to the constraints he's had before. If I was going to be objective as an outsider with no PL affinity, the issue I see is attracting the very top player to the club, especially this season with no CL lure. That isn't to say he won't make very good signings. It's just to say they are never going to get a Griezmann etc. and so while others are getting the very best, it then makes the gulf in quality bigger and bigger. That's a problem everyone outside Chelsea, City and United will face and bridging that gap is the biggest obstacle to being a PL contender. That isn't going to change
		
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Trust me, Griezmann would quite happily sign for Arsenal if we paid Â£100M and gave him Â£350K a week. We can't ( and wouldn't) do that.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Trust me, Griezmann would quite happily sign for Arsenal if we paid Â£100M and gave him Â£350K a week. We can't ( and wouldn't) do that.
		
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Do you really think that Griezmann isn't also interested in winning big trophies as opposed to just being about money ? Or is it just a coincidence that the players also join clubs looking to win as well


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## HomerJSimpson (May 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Trust me, Griezmann would quite happily sign for Arsenal if we paid Â£100M and gave him Â£350K a week. We can't ( and wouldn't) do that.
		
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And there's the rub. Others will and so you'll not get these very top end players and therefore the gulf between you and others outside the top three spenders (City, United and Chelsea) will increase and so you and the others will effectively start at a handicap before a balls kicked


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## sawtooth (May 31, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you really think that Griezmann isn't also interested in winning big trophies as opposed to just being about money ? Or is it just a coincidence that the players also join clubs looking to win as well
		
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I'd argue that Greizmann is just as likely to win 'big trophies' staying at Athletico so we will see what he goes for and what his new package will be. I predict that it's substantially more than what Athletico can pay him.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I'd argue that Greizmann is just as likely to win 'big trophies' staying at Athletico so we will see what he goes for and what his new package will be. I predict that it's substantially more than what Athletico can pay him.
		
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When a player moves to a successful club a better package will come with it - that's what The rewards are for a club that win trophies - playing for a Man Utd or City or Chelsea will give him a big global exposure and the chance to win the Prem and CL - something he wouldn't get at Arsenal , wages offered are irrelevant


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## Dan2501 (May 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Trust me, Griezmann would quite happily sign for Arsenal if we paid Â£100M and gave him Â£350K a week. We can't ( and wouldn't) do that.
		
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You can. Wenger just refuses to. You have no debts, stadium is paid for, had Champions League revenue for the last 10 years and a billionaire owner. The issue is with Wenger, not with Arsenal.


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## Fish (May 31, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When a player moves to a successful club a better package will come with it - that's what The rewards are for a club that win trophies - playing for a Man Utd or City or Chelsea will give him a big global exposure and the chance to win the Prem and CL - something he wouldn't get at Arsenal , wages offered are irrelevant
		
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and that package is usually comfortably offset by the commercial revenue that player can bring to the club and if his contribution is significant that the club wins more or any silverware or titles or generally improves there position, again his package is more than subsidised then by the revenue from those successes, it's simple business practices and economics.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 31, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When a player moves to a successful club a better package will come with it - that's what The rewards are for a club that win trophies - playing for a Man Utd or City or Chelsea will give him a big global exposure and the chance to win the Prem and CL - something he wouldn't get at Arsenal , wages offered are irrelevant
		
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Is that why Liverpool aren't' signing top players either then. You can't offer them a PL or CL win? DOes that mean it's a top three closed shop then? I could see a Spurs getting a big name (perhaps like Zlatan and entering the Autumn of their career) who will then kick them on again but they in particular need to retain what they have first and foremost as well as developing and getting bigger players in


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## Fish (May 31, 2017)

Real Madrid coming for de Gea, will they get their man? 

Â£60m offer refused, no doubt testing the water!


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## HomerJSimpson (May 31, 2017)

Fish said:



			Real Madrid coming for de Gea, will they get their man?
		
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Maybe if they complete the paperwork properly this time!


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## Fish (May 31, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Is that why Liverpool aren't' signing top players either then. You can't offer them a PL or CL win? DOes that mean it's a top three closed shop then? I could see a Spurs getting a big name (perhaps like Zlatan and entering the Autumn of their career) who will then kick them on again but they in particular need to retain what they have first and foremost as well as developing and getting bigger players in
		
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I think anyone can get a big name if they really want to, it's just whether it's viable at that time or in the clubs best interest, at that time.

Middlesbrough attracted a few top Brazilians, didn't they? Not everyone is destined for a big city or London.


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## ger147 (May 31, 2017)

Fish said:



			Real Madrid coming for de Gea, will they get their man? 

Â£60m offer refused, no doubt testing the water!
		
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I think he will go in this window but I wouldn't be surprised if Man Utd are holding out for something nearer the Â£100m mark.  That might sound ridiculous but the fees for ordinary players are astronomical these days and De Gea is without doubt one of the very best keepers in the world with the best years of his career ahead of him.

Man Utd won't be selling him cheap to one of their European rivals.


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## Papas1982 (May 31, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think anyone can get a big name if they really want to, it's just whether it's viable at that time or in the clubs best interest, at that time.

Middlesbrough attracted a few top Brazilians, didn't they? Not everyone is destined for a big city or London.
		
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I think the boro situation is a lot like the one in china now. Predominantly people after a pay check and no real care for anything else. 

Even chelsea and city with all their new found wealth had to do it in stages. Overpaying slightly for the top scraps (duff, bridge, swp) etc and then making a second move once the improvements were clear for all to see. 

Arsenal have maybe a season or two to show they mean business or they will drop back. Their appeal is nowhere near as great as utds, and with a board or manager at least less likely to spend. The players needed to go for fourth again may well already be out of reach.


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## One Planer (May 31, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Is that why Liverpool aren't' signing top players either then
		
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Like Suarez and Coutinho you mean?

Liverpool are still big draw for players and pay the wages. Liverpool are very much a team in transition but I feel they will be more of a top 4 club over the coming years than Arsenal.


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## sawtooth (May 31, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I think the boro situation is a lot like the one in china now. Predominantly people after a pay check and no real care for anything else. 

Even chelsea and city with all their new found wealth had to do it in stages. Overpaying slightly for the top scraps (duff, bridge, swp) etc and then making a second move once the improvements were clear for all to see. 

Arsenal have maybe a season or two to show they mean business or they will drop back. Their appeal is nowhere near as great as utds, and with a board or manager at least less likely to spend. The players needed to go for fourth again may well already be out of reach.
		
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There's players out there but not necessarily superstars and household names. Maybe this lad Henry that we look to be signing for Â£8.5M will turn out to be a real player. We bought Holding for only Â£2M and I stand by what I said at the time that he will turn out to be a better player than Stones. Problem buying lower budget players sometimes is that they often need a bit of time for settling and improvement and may never make the grade.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 31, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Like Suarez and Coutinho you mean?

Liverpool are still big draw for players and pay the wages. Liverpool are very much a team in transition but I feel they will be more of a top 4 club over the coming years than Arsenal.
		
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Benteke? 

I disagree that they are a top draw for big players. *IF* they have a good season in the PL and finish top four again and get further than last 16 of CL then I'd agree they are making progress. That would definitely be a lure for good players. For now though I feel (and purely a personal opinion) they are still in flux and so the massive players may see that as a negative. 

Taking Liverpool and Arsenal out of the argument, it's important for the PL to still get the top players in. It makes for good viewing for the neutral armchair football fan (and to a degree justifies paying the monthly ransom to Sky - thats a different argument though) and its important surely to help our own younger players develop by playing with the best out there


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## ColchesterFC (May 31, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Because you conveniently didn't take into account the accumulation of money spent in previous transfer windows. It's a known and indisputable fact that Chelsea, City and Utd have spent substantially more than Arsenal over the past 10 years or more.
		
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So let's look at some figures then. In the last 5 years Arsenal's nett spend on transfers has been Â£205,890,000. In that same period Chelsea's nett spend has been Â£186,809,000. The two Manchester clubs are above them in this respect with Â£402.5 million nett for City and Â£352 million nett for United.

No doubt your defence will be the amount of money spent by Chelsea in the years before that. So let's debunk that one as well. The players from the Chelsea squad from 2012/13 that are still there now are Cahill, Luiz (who has left and returned), Terry, Chalobah, Ake, Azpilicueta, Moses and Hazard. Arsenal still have Szczesny (out on loan), Gibbs, Bellerin, Koscielny, Mertesacker, Jenkinson (out on loan), Monreal, Coquelin, Ramsey, Cazorla, Wislhsere (out on loan), Giroud, Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain.

Chelsea have 8 players that have been there since 2012/13. Arsenal have 14. So Chelsea have refreshed more of their squad since 2012/13 than Arsenal but have spent almost Â£20 million less nett doing it than Arsenal. Maybe the difference is bringing in players such as Willian, Matic, Kante, Costa and Courtois rather than Mustafi, Xhaka, Elneny, and Perez. 

And you can't use the wages arguement with Kante being on Â£110k a week at Chelsea and Ozil, Sanchez and Cech being on over Â£100k a week at Arsenal. Arsenal also still have over Â£200 million in cash in the bank.


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## One Planer (May 31, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Benteke? 

I disagree that they are a top draw for big players. *IF* they have a good season in the PL and finish top four again and get further than last 16 of CL then I'd agree they are making progress. That would definitely be a lure for good players. For now though I feel (and purely a personal opinion) they are still in flux and so the massive players may see that as a negative. 

Taking Liverpool and Arsenal out of the argument, it's important for the PL to still get the top players in. It makes for good viewing for the neutral armchair football fan (and to a degree justifies paying the monthly ransom to Sky - thats a different argument though) and its important surely to help our own younger players develop by playing with the best out there
		
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Giroud? Xhaka? 

I believe that under Klopp Liverpool are a big draw.  Now they have CL I believe they'll draw in better quality than before and strengthen.

They key will be holding on to their better players and building around them.


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## sawtooth (May 31, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			So let's look at some figures then. In the last 5 years Arsenal's nett spend on transfers has been Â£205,890,000. In that same period Chelsea's nett spend has been Â£186,809,000. The two Manchester clubs are above them in this respect with Â£402.5 million nett for City and Â£352 million nett for United.

No doubt your defence will be the amount of money spent by Chelsea in the years before that. So let's debunk that one as well. The players from the Chelsea squad from 2012/13 that are still there now are Cahill, Luiz (who has left and returned), Terry, Chalobah, Ake, Azpilicueta, Moses and Hazard. Arsenal still have Szczesny (out on loan), Gibbs, Bellerin, Koscielny, Mertesacker, Jenkinson (out on loan), Monreal, Coquelin, Ramsey, Cazorla, Wislhsere (out on loan), Giroud, Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain.

Chelsea have 8 players that have been there since 2012/13. Arsenal have 14. So Chelsea have refreshed more of their squad since 2012/13 than Arsenal but have spent almost Â£20 million less nett doing it than Arsenal. Maybe the difference is bringing in players such as Willian, Matic, Kante, Costa and Courtois rather than Mustafi, Xhaka, Elneny, and Perez. 

And you can't use the wages arguement with Kante being on Â£110k a week at Chelsea and Ozil, Sanchez and Cech being on over Â£100k a week at Arsenal. Arsenal also still have over Â£200 million in cash in the bank.
		
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How can you use Net figures? Majority of players Chelsea sold were bought in the first place by Romans cash. 

Just look at the figures both clubs have spent in the last 10 years, Chelseas outlay is more than double Arsenals.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			How can you use Net figures? Majority of players Chelsea sold were bought in the first place by Romans cash. 

Just look at the figures both clubs have spent in the last 10 years, Chelseas outlay is more than double Arsenals.
		
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If in two seasons Arsenal haven't got back into top 4. And Spurs who have always spent less than you have taken your 4th place (or above) trophy. 

Would you lay fault and wenger? Or would you still think he's doing (he did) a great job?


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			How can you use Net figures? Majority of players Chelsea sold were bought in the first place by Romans cash. 

Just look at the figures both clubs have spent in the last 10 years, Chelseas outlay is more than double Arsenals.
		
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Because nett spending is more accurate to use than gross spending. I could theoretically spend Â£50 million on my limited company in the next financial year. If that only brings in Â£5 million in benefit to my company then I've wasted Â£45 million and my balance sheet shows a Â£45 million loss. If I spend Â£50 million and that brings in Â£100 million in benefits then my balance sheet shows Â£50 million profit.

So let's look at what that spending has meant to the two clubs......

Chelsea's trophies since 2006 - 3 x Premier League, 4 x FA Cup, 2 x League Cup, 1 x Champions League, 1 x Europa Cup

Arsenal trophies since 2006 - 3 x FA Cup, 2 x League Cup

I think it's clear from those stats that Chelsea have done better in that regards. 

And let's not forget the one fact, that I've mentioned more than once before but that you continually conveniently ignore, and that is that Arsenal have got over Â£200 million in cash in the bank that Wenger could spend but has chosen not to. You could have got Kante but chose not to. It was blamed on Chelsea offering more but in the Premier League is Â£110k a week really that outrageous?


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## USER1999 (Jun 1, 2017)

Arsenals spending, or even lack of top top quality players has nothing to do with why they lose to West Brom, or Watford. The top 4 trophy was lost due to some very poor performances this season, and whilst the players may be at fault, it is also massively down to the manager, and his coaching staff.

That aside, what is Wengers plan to win the league? He thinks Arsenal are a couple of players short. Really? The last 10 years pretty much have seen the same issues, the collapse in feb/march and the end of season resurgence. How is he going to fix that? What is going to change? Payton, collbert, primorich, have all been there, doing the same stuff for ages.

The transfer and scouting has been under performing for years, but that remains the same too. I dont think there is a strategy in place, and i dont think the players they have bought have been what they thought they were buying. If Xhaka was meant to be a defensive midfielder, he is not, he is a deep lying play maker. If ghey didnt want this, why buy him?  I also think a lot of the transfer issues with spending come down to Wenger dithering over value in the market.

He has two more years, minimum. What is he going to change, As doing the same thing will net the same results. It always does.


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## sawtooth (Jun 1, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			If in two seasons Arsenal haven't got back into top 4. And Spurs who have always spent less than you have taken your 4th place (or above) trophy. 

Would you lay fault and wenger? Or would you still think he's doing (he did) a great job?
		
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To be fair to Wenger it wouldn't be right to start getting on his case after 1-2 seasons of either his side dropping it's level or teams like Spurs or Liverpool elevating theirs. In 20 years Wengers teams have been remarkably consistent. Infact I saw a stat the other day that showed his win to game ratio in the first 10 years is almost identical to the last 10 years despite not winning as much trophies.

If that trend continued for 3-4 seasons and especially if other teams started to come up into the top four with smaller budgets then fair enough but I don't think we will see that.

City, United and Chelsea will continue to dominate for the next 5 years punctuated by some success from Arsenal , Liverpool, Spurs and whoever. But Arsenal have been leading the chasing pack for a decade or more ( and pretty much dominated for the 10 years before that) so Wenger deserves an awful lot of credit for that.

 It's been an extraordinary level of consistency with constantly changing teams and external factors to deal with.


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## Fish (Jun 1, 2017)

You seem more obsessed with the past than the future!


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## Dan2501 (Jun 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			To be fair to Wenger it wouldn't be right to start getting on his case after 1-2 seasons of either his side dropping it's level or teams like Spurs or Liverpool elevating theirs. In 20 years Wengers teams have been remarkably consistent. Infact I saw a stat the other day that showed his win to game ratio in the first 10 years is almost identical to the last 10 years despite not winning as much trophies.

If that trend continued for 3-4 seasons and especially if other teams started to come up into the top four with smaller budgets then fair enough but I don't think we will see that.

City, United and Chelsea will continue to dominate for the next 5 years punctuated by some success from Arsenal , Liverpool, Spurs and whoever. But Arsenal have been leading the chasing pack for a decade or more ( and pretty much dominated for the 10 years before that) so Wenger deserves an awful lot of credit for that.

 It's been an extraordinary level of consistency with constantly changing teams and external factors to deal with.
		
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Your delusion defies belief. 

So apparently Sanchez and Ozil are demanding Â£350k a week. If Sawtooth is correct, and poor Arsenal can't afford those sort of wages, it's bye bye to both of them. However, I was reading that Ozil has already been offered Â£280k a week by Arsenal. I thought they couldn't afford that for anyone?


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## USER1999 (Jun 1, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Your delusion defies belief. 

So apparently Sanchez and Ozil are demanding Â£350k a week. If Sawtooth is correct, and poor Arsenal can't afford those sort of wages, it's bye bye to both of them. However, I was reading that Ozil has already been offered Â£280k a week by Arsenal. I thought they couldn't afford that for anyone?
		
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It was 250 a week, and it was turned down. I am not seeing a queue forming of eager suitors, so he is daft for not signing it. Unless he is offered more by Arsenal, and then they are idiots.


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## sawtooth (Jun 1, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Your delusion defies belief. 

So apparently Sanchez and Ozil are demanding Â£350k a week. If Sawtooth is correct, and poor Arsenal can't afford those sort of wages, it's bye bye to both of them. However, I was reading that Ozil has already been offered Â£280k a week by Arsenal. I thought they couldn't afford that for anyone?
		
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Maybe you believe too much what you read in the papers.

Let's see if they stay and if so what the actual packages are.  I will be amazed if it's anywhere near Â£300K a week each. With that said we do already own the players so it's not like we are going out and spending another Â£100M and then the Â£250K a week wages on top.

Savings would need to be made elsewhere to balance the books.

Say what you like but if you think Arsenal have the same spending power as City, Chelsea and Utd then I would say that you are the delusional one not me my friend.


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## Dan2501 (Jun 1, 2017)

The club is worth Â£1.6bn
Kroenke is worth $7.5bn
Usmanov is worth $14.5bn
Arsenal have more cash in the bank than Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern combined
The stadium is now paid off

How do they not have the spending power?


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## USER1999 (Jun 1, 2017)

The stadium is not paid off. The payments are down to a sustainable rate which should not affect wages or transfers.


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## USER1999 (Jun 1, 2017)

Sell off Gibbs, Debuchy, Jenkinson, Wilshere, Szchesny, Ospina, Perez (who i like), Sanogo, Chambers, Walcott. Without impacting the matchday squad, that would free up a lot of wages.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Maybe you believe too much what you read in the papers.

Let's see if they stay and if so what the actual packages are.  I will be amazed if it's anywhere near Â£300K a week each. With that said we do already own the players so it's not like we are going out and spending another Â£100M and then the Â£250K a week wages on top.

Savings would need to be made elsewhere to balance the books.

Say what you like but if you think Arsenal have the same spending power as City, Chelsea and Utd then I would say that you are the delusional one not me my friend.
		
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Are you related to Alister Campbell in anyway ? You spin everything to ensure that it's not Arsenal's or Wengers fault - utterly delusional 

Arsenal don't need to "balance the books" they have over Â£200mil sat there with millions coming in each year with the most expensive tickets in England 

It's Wengers reluctance to spend money on the risk signings that is the problem 

I thought this season might give you the nod to realise what's wrong 

You spend Â£100mill in the summer yet went backwards - the only person at fault for that is the manager , there was no improvement on last season , the same thumping in the CL by a team Arsenal should aspire to be like, the same disappointments throughout the Prem season and the same cracks being covered over by a cup win. Any other top club would have not asked the manager to stay but the lack of ambition runs right through the whole club - it's a reason why I know people that don't want to spend over a thousand on a season ticket when the club have zero desire to move forward


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## sawtooth (Jun 1, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are you related to Alister Campbell in anyway ? You spin everything to ensure that it's not Arsenal's or Wengers fault - utterly delusional 

Arsenal don't need to "balance the books" they have over Â£200mil sat there with millions coming in each year with the most expensive tickets in England 

It's Wengers reluctance to spend money on the risk signings that is the problem 

I thought this season might give you the nod to realise what's wrong 

You spend Â£100mill in the summer yet went backwards - the only person at fault for that is the manager , there was no improvement on last season , the same thumping in the CL by a team Arsenal should aspire to be like, the same disappointments throughout the Prem season and the same cracks being covered over by a cup win. Any other top club would have not asked the manager to stay but the lack of ambition runs right through the whole club - it's a reason why I know people that don't want to spend over a thousand on a season ticket when the club have zero desire to move forward
		
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Is Liverpool spending Â£3M on Solanke ambition? 

We are spending more than we have ever done but it's not been enough to compete with the big 3. 

Same for Liverpool, you've spent millions but are still nowhere closer to winning the league now than you were under Rodgers. 

What about Liverpools fall from grace? No league in almost 30 years, now that's really something to worry about. You've tried to change managers when things haven't worked out, where has that got you?

Trophyless for years that's where and the best that you can hope for next year is a top 6 finish. I don't want to take any lessons from Liverpools school of ambition thanks.


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## Slime (Jun 1, 2017)

I think Wenger should show some strength by telling Ozil & Sanchez that they have to sign new deals immediately.
Apparently they've been offered double their current wage ................... if that's not enough for them, Wenger should sell them now, rather than watch them run their contracts down.
A club such as Arsenal should not allow themselves to be held to ransom by two players who know that they are Arsenal's only marquee players ...................... but why this wasn't sorted out a year ago Wenger only knows!!
Thoughts?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Is Liverpool spending Â£3M on Solanke ambition? 

We are spending more than we have ever done but it's not been enough to compete with the big 3. 

Same for Liverpool, you've spent millions but are still nowhere closer to winning the league now than you were under Rodgers. 

What about Liverpools fall from grace? No league in almost 30 years, now that's really something to worry about. You've tried to change managers when things haven't worked out, where has that got you?

Trophyless for years that's where and the best that you can hope for next year is a top 6 finish. I don't want to take any lessons from Liverpools school of ambition thanks.
		
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I know Liverpools failing and not one Liverpool fan has attempted to hide behind any spending or blaming other clubs - our issues are the clubs and managers fault and managers have been given the sack for failing - deflecting any criticism onto us doesn't answer the question 

Arsenal spent Â£100mil in the summer and went backwards , they spent a good deal of money and went from 2nd in the league to 5th - whose fault is that ? Did the manager spend that money well or did he waste it. 

We spent less but moved from 8th to 4th so we improved and if we keep improving we may start to challenge 

Our manager changes over the years have Improved the team at the time - we brought in Holllier when the treble , briougjt in Rafa won the biggest club Comp in Europe , even Rodgers got us closer to winning the title than Wenger has in a decade. 

So what happens when Arsenal don't improve again for another season ? Blame money again


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## Hobbit (Jun 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Is Liverpool spending Â£3M on Solanke ambition? 

We are spending more than we have ever done but it's not been enough to compete with the big 3. 

Same for Liverpool, you've spent millions but are still nowhere closer to winning the league now than you were under Rodgers. 

What about Liverpools fall from grace? No league in almost 30 years, now that's really something to worry about. You've tried to change managers when things haven't worked out, where has that got you?

Trophyless for years that's where and the best that you can hope for next year is a top 6 finish. I don't want to take any lessons from Liverpools school of ambition thanks.
		
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You should!

Liverpool have brought an exciting manager, and a few decent players and guess what. They're in the CL and Arsenal aren't.

The trend suggests Liverpool will continue to improve whilst Arsenal, with their player contractual issues will continue to decline.


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## sawtooth (Jun 1, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I know Liverpools failing and not one Liverpool fan has attempted to hide behind any spending or blaming other clubs - our issues are the clubs and managers fault and managers have been given the sack for failing - deflecting any criticism onto us doesn't answer the question 

Arsenal spent Â£100mil in the summer and went backwards , they spent a good deal of money and went from 2nd in the league to 5th - whose fault is that ? Did the manager spend that money well or did he waste it. 

We spent less but moved from 8th to 4th so we improved and if we keep improving we may start to challenge 

Our manager changes over the years have Improved the team at the time - we brought in Holllier when the treble , briougjt in Rafa won the biggest club Comp in Europe , even Rodgers got us closer to winning the title than Wenger has in a decade. 

So what happens when Arsenal don't improve again for another season ? Blame money again
		
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You can't keep looking at transfer windows in isolation , this is why you have a warped view on the world. You will probably find that Liverpool have spent more than Arsenal in the last 5 years as well.

Step back and have a look at the big picture. One big outlay does not make up for years of under investment.


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## sawtooth (Jun 1, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			You should!

Liverpool have brought an exciting manager, and a few decent players and guess what. They're in the CL and Arsenal aren't.

The trend suggests Liverpool will continue to improve whilst Arsenal, with their player contractual issues will continue to decline.
		
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Haha one instance is not really a trend is it?

They invest heavily and change managers to win stuff, but what have they won olin the past 10 years?

It's not really a blueprint for success mate is it?


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## Hobbit (Jun 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Haha one instance is not really a trend is it?

They invest heavily and change managers to win stuff, but what have they won olin the past 10 years?

It's not really a blueprint for success mate is it?
		
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I refer you back to your last but one sentence in your last post to Phil. Big picture. And the trend extends back to the invincibles. Bit by bit the number of stars in the squad have dwindled. The current squad is lightweight at best.

I like Arsenal, and have no axe to grind but it's been blatantly obvious to every man and his dog, including big Wenger supporters like Ian Wright, that change is needed.

Arsenal have dropped back into the chasing pack, and I'd put money on them struggling to make 6th next season if there's not a radical shake up. That chasing pack are nowhere near chasing a top 3, and that should be Arsenal's ambition.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			You can't keep looking at transfer windows in isolation , this is why you have a warped view on the world. You will probably find that Liverpool have spent more than Arsenal in the last 5 years as well.

Step back and have a look at the big picture. One big outlay does not make up for years of under investment.
		
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Someone put a very detailed post going over 5 years of transfers and you dismissed that as well - it's all spin 

Simple question - last year Arsenal finished 2nd , during the summer they spent a good deal amount of money on new players , they lost none of their main players - so why did they as a team go backwards ?


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## USER1999 (Jun 1, 2017)

The Ox is nearly out of contract too. Rumours of possible Liverpool interest. I would be sad to see him go. At 23 he still could become a very good player. Wants to play through the middle, which will never happen at Arsenal.


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## sawtooth (Jun 1, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			I refer you back to your last but one sentence in your last post to Phil. Big picture. And the trend extends back to the invincibles. Bit by bit the number of stars in the squad have dwindled. The current squad is lightweight at best.

I like Arsenal, and have no axe to grind but it's been blatantly obvious to every man and his dog, including big Wenger supporters like Ian Wright, that change is needed.

Arsenal have dropped back into the chasing pack, and I'd put money on them struggling to make 6th next season if there's not a radical shake up. That chasing pack are nowhere near chasing a top 3, and that should be Arsenal's ambition.
		
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I don't think Arsenal have moved at all in 20 years. The goal posts moved when arab and russian money came in. You can't dispute that without that intervention that Arsenal would have won 4 or 5 more titles. Look at the tables if you don't believe what I say.

So it's a bit silly to say that Arsenal have gone backwards because we are still losing the major trophies to the same 3 big teams (barring the freak Leicester win).

The minute Spurs, Liverpool, Everton et al dominate major trophies on their budgets then I will put my hands up. But until then it's no shock horror to see Arsenal nestled in behind Chelsea, Utd, City every year.

Yes there will brief appearances from others from time to time but they usually fall away again whereas Arsenal have shown to be the most consistent and undisputed challengers to the big 3 for decades.


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## Dan2501 (Jun 1, 2017)

How have you not gone backwards when you've gone from 2nd to 5th despite spending almost Â£100m on players in the Summer and after avoiding losing any key squad members?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 1, 2017)

I'm amazed at the quote relating to Arsenal challenging the "big 3". With your set up and financial muscle you should be part of any "big 3 or 4". To pretend otherwise goes against what is clear to most people. To claim Arsenal are a poor mans club just does not add up. 

A good number of pages back I made a comment about Arsenal being around the top but never really threatening. In a comfort zone without pushing the boundaries. Someone else followed my comment by comparing them to Matt Kuchar. It was a great comparison. Arsenal need to get some drive and back bone into them. They should be challenging, properly challenging most years. Not just hanging around and happy picking up a tidy cheque.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			To be fair to Wenger it wouldn't be right to start getting on his case after 1-2 seasons of either his side dropping it's level or teams like Spurs or Liverpool elevating theirs. In 20 years Wengers teams have been remarkably consistent. Infact I saw a stat the other day that showed his win to game ratio in the first 10 years is almost identical to the last 10 years despite not winning as much trophies.

If that trend continued for 3-4 seasons and especially if other teams started to come up into the top four with smaller budgets then fair enough but I don't think we will see that.

City, United and Chelsea will continue to dominate for the next 5 years punctuated by some success from Arsenal , Liverpool, Spurs and whoever. But Arsenal have been leading the chasing pack for a decade or more ( and pretty much dominated for the 10 years before that) so Wenger deserves an awful lot of credit for that.

 It's been an extraordinary level of consistency with constantly changing teams and external factors to deal with.
		
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The problem is you keep chelsea as some sort of defence mechanism. 

If you accept they they are where they are now. Be that through good management. Loads wonga or just luck. They are niw where they are. Roman doesn't over pay anymore. You are more successful than they are financial in terms of revenue. So whilst it may frustrate you how they became. The myth they are continually funded by Roman is just that. A myth. They now run with transfer constraints and in the last five years have simply done better than you.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I don't think Arsenal have moved at all in 20 years. The goal posts moved when arab and russian money came in. *You can't dispute that without that intervention that Arsenal would have won 4 or 5 more titles. Look at the tables if you don't believe what I say.*

So it's a bit silly to say that Arsenal have gone backwards because we are still losing the major trophies to the same 3 big teams (barring the freak Leicester win).

The minute Spurs, Liverpool, Everton et al dominate major trophies on their budgets then I will put my hands up. But until then it's no shock horror to see Arsenal nestled in behind Chelsea, Utd, City every year.

Yes there will brief appearances from others from time to time but they usually fall away again whereas Arsenal have shown to be the most consistent and undisputed challengers to the big 3 for decades.
		
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RUBBISH. 

UTD would have likely won 10 straight. You would have had one super club as a rival and they'd of hammered you as you had no money.

as it goes. Once. One time you have finished below only the new money teams. All 9 other times you'd have lost to Spurs once, Leicester once, Liverpool once and Utd 6 times. 
#blinkered


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## sawtooth (Jun 1, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			RUBBISH. 

UTD would have likely won 10 straight. You would have had one super club as a rival and they'd of hammered you as you had no money.

as it goes. Once. One time you have finished below only the new money teams. All 9 other times you'd have lost to Spurs once, Leicester once, Liverpool once and Utd 6 times. 
#blinkered
		
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Ah so money DOES make a difference, glad to see you're grasping it at long last.

Arsenal finished above Utd a fair few times and  removing the big 3 Arsenal would have won a lot more titles. 

Best of the rest for a decade or more, that deserves a bit more respect than Wenger is getting,

If money is not an issue why haven't Spurs, Liverpool, Everton, and others had a sniff at the premier league in 20 years? It's become increasingly about money, the more you have the better players you can get and the better players you have the more chance of winning you have. It's really not that difficult to see.

If we all had the same budgets then Wenger should have been sacked 10 years ago but we don't and rightly stayed put.


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## Slime (Jun 1, 2017)

sawtooth, you say that when Chelsea & City were taken over by sugar daddies that the goalposts moved.
Correct .......................... BUT THEY AIN'T MOVING BACK.
Arsenal, along with everyone else, just have to adapt or wave the white flag.
What are Arsenal doing?


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 1, 2017)

I wonder if everyone keeps making the same points over & over again,
 will Sawtooth say "you know what I agree with you all" &#129300;

Will you be using the same bait next season Sawtooth ? &#127907; 
&#128514;


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## Fish (Jun 1, 2017)

Slime said:



			sawtooth, *you say that when Chelsea & City were taken over by sugar daddies that the goalposts moved.*
Correct .......................... BUT THEY AIN'T MOVING BACK.
Arsenal, along with everyone else, just have to adapt or wave the white flag.
What are Arsenal doing?
		
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So what's the difference between Roman with a nett worth of $7.5bn and Kroenke who's worth $7.5bn and Usmanov whose $14.5bn?  

For me Roman enjoys supporting Chelsea as can be seen when he's watching, not sure you can say that about the Arsenal owners?

Roman invested in Chelsea so they could become successful and could compete to win things, which they were on the fringe of anyway.  That investment and then the new finances that are won from winning titles, cups and playing CL football is then supporting the club and those players that were purchased and invested in at the beginning were sold at the right time to make excellent profits.  

As I've said before, it's basic business practice, you invest in what you believe in and through its success you can then reap the financial rewards of better commercial money on a worldwide stage, better sponsorship deals, better TV money, and the list goes on........but, it's becoming obvious that Kroenke and Usmanov are happy and satisfied with just being the corner shop rather than the supermarket, the north London convenience store if you like, as such, they'll only feature when the supermarkets are closed.

I think and honestly believe that the frustrations of Arsenals lack of positive spending and building around marquee players that they already have has filtered down onto the pitch, we've all seen Sanchez's body language but I think the problems are more deep routed, and if they are, I can see the likes of Ox leaving if they think it's going to be the same old same old for another 2 groundhog years.  

Young aspiring players like him want to compete and win things, and if he goes no doubt he'll be accused of moving for money only, which I don't think he would, but he'd obviously get a better package than what he's on now with a move, that's normal. 

 I think we've seen many players leave Arsenal over the years that would have stayed if the club had invested and built around them, most if not all have moved on to also win things that they wouldn't have done by staying.

Wenger has exceeded his sell by date, he can't change, it's not his faulty he's the way he is, but it's now the boards fault for re-employing him for another 2 years IMO.

Other clubs and teams in the pack show far more hunger and don't have the billionaires Arsenal do sitting in the wings, if and when they ever show up that is, so like others have said, Arsenal have and have had the finances for the last couple of seasons and more, but when they have spent, they have spent poorly.

And all this guff about players getting used to the PL is tosh, it's a football match ffs and their professional football players, it's simply faster and more physical at times, that's all. There's settling into a side and getting used to new teammates and different formations, but the generic term is utter guff IMO.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 1, 2017)

Actually, if he is happy with his team then that is all that matters. The rest of us may think they under achieve but Arsenal are not our team so it ultimately does not affect us, other than giving our own teams more chance to do well. Long may Arsene carry on :thup:


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 1, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Actually, if he is happy with his team then that is all that matters. The rest of us may think they under achieve but Arsenal are not our team so it ultimately does not affect us, other than giving our own teams more chance to do well. Long may Arsene carry on :thup:
		
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Correct,if he's happy then good for him.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Ah so money DOES make a difference, glad to see you're grasping it at long last.

Arsenal finished above Utd a fair few times and  removing the big 3 Arsenal would have won a lot more titles. 

Best of the rest for a decade or more, that deserves a bit more respect than Wenger is getting,

If money is not an issue why haven't Spurs, Liverpool, Everton, and others had a sniff at the premier league in 20 years? It's become increasingly about money, the more you have the better players you can get and the better players you have the more chance of winning you have. It's really not that difficult to see.

If we all had the same budgets then Wenger should have been sacked 10 years ago but we don't and rightly stayed put.
		
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the seasons you finished above Utd you also post out to Liverpool Spurs and Leicester on 3 occasions. Take city and Chelsea out and you would have won once. So money has cost you one title. 

Thats not a fair few times at all. 

You cant remove Utd from the list. They if anything have at times been hamstrung by their owners. They have money based on their success. Not through taxation of their loyal support or manipulation of said fans for being a London club.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			So what's the difference between Roman with a nett worth of $7.5bn and Kroenke who's worth $7.5bn and Usmanov whose $14.5bn?  

For me Roman enjoys supporting Chelsea as can be seen when he's watching, not sure you can say that about the Arsenal owners?

Roman invested in Chelsea so they could become successful and could compete to win things, which they were on the fringe of anyway.  That investment and then the new finances that are won from winning titles, cups and playing CL football is then supporting the club and those players that were purchased and invested in at the beginning were sold at the right time to make excellent profits.  

As I've said before, it's basic business practice, you invest in what you believe in and through its success you can then reap the financial rewards of better commercial money on a worldwide stage, better sponsorship deals, better TV money, and the list goes on........but, it's becoming obvious that Kroenke and Usmanov are happy and satisfied with just being the corner shop rather than the supermarket, the north London convenience store if you like, as such, they'll only feature when the supermarkets are closed.

I think and honestly believe that the frustrations of Arsenals lack of positive spending and building around marquee players that they already have has filtered down onto the pitch, we've all seen Sanchez's body language but I think the problems are more deep routed, and if they are, I can see the likes of Ox leaving if they think it's going to be the same old same old for another 2 groundhog years.  

Young aspiring players like him want to compete and win things, and if he goes no doubt he'll be accused of moving for money only, which I don't think he would, but he'd obviously get a better package than what he's on now with a move, that's normal. 

 I think we've seen many players leave Arsenal over the years that would have stayed if the club had invested and built around them, most if not all have moved on to also win things that they wouldn't have done by staying.

Wenger has exceeded his sell by date, he can't change, it's not his faulty he's the way he is, but it's now the boards fault for re-employing him for another 2 years IMO.

Other clubs and teams in the pack show far more hunger and don't have the billionaires Arsenal do sitting in the wings, if and when they ever show up that is, so like others have said, Arsenal have and have had the finances for the last couple of seasons and more, but when they have spent, they have spent poorly.

And all this guff about players getting used to the PL is tosh, it's a football match ffs and their professional football players, it's simply faster and more physical at times, that's all. There's settling into a side and getting used to new teammates and different formations, but the generic term is utter guff IMO.
		
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the reason Chelseas financial benifactor is viewed differently Robin is because he's a benefactor. Your records show an outstanding loan to him close to Â£1b last I heard.

the others are owners. If a new owner comes in now and did the same as Roman they would be hit my penalties for ffp rules. 

I dont think anything thing was wrong with what Roman did. Without him you wouldn't be where you are. You may well have been improving in the league. But you also played on a beach agaisnt charlton so poor were you finances. 

But now, you're settled and if people don't accept it. Or clubs at least, then they are destined to falls short.


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## sawtooth (Jun 1, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			the reason Chelseas financial benifactor is viewed differently Robin is because he's a benefactor. Your records show an outstanding loan to him close to Â£1b last I heard.

the others are owners. If a new owner comes in now and did the same as Roman they would be hit my penalties for ffp rules. 

I dont think anything thing was wrong with what Roman did. Without him you wouldn't be where you are. You may well have been improving in the league. But you also played on a beach agaisnt charlton so poor were you finances. 

But now, you're settled and if people don't accept it. Or clubs at least, then they are destined to falls short.
		
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I accept it, I just don't like it being rammed down my throat nor do I like to see Wenger getting a bashing when really all of that is out of his control. 

Arsenal will do their best to close the gap but will spend within their means (club generated revenues) as long as Wenger is there. It's one of his values not to go spending the owners Billions and I for one prefer it that way.

Let's drop it now until the next time Wenger gets harshly criticised.


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## One Planer (Jun 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I accept it, I just don't like it being rammed down my throat nor do I like to see Wenger getting a bashing when really all of that is out of his control. 

Arsenal will do their best to close the gap but will spend within their means (club generated revenues) as long as Wenger is there. It's one of his values not to go spending the owners Billions and I for one prefer it that way.

Let's drop it now until the next time Wenger gets harshly criticised.
		
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In 2 years or so, when Wenger retires, what will your opinion be if the chosen replacement has a bigger shopping list than when Mourinho first came to Chelsea?

Lets say you win the league because if it.

Would your views change or would you be dead against the new manager having purchased the league ?


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## sawtooth (Jun 1, 2017)

One Planer said:



			In 2 years or so, when Wenger retires, what will your opinion be if the chosen replacement has a bigger shopping list than when Mourinho first came to Chelsea?

Lets say you win the league because if it.

Would your views change or would you be dead against the new manager having purchased the league ?
		
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Dead against it. Wenger won't do it and I'm not sure the next managers will do it either. 
I just don't think it will ever be the Arsenal way but I might be wrong.


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## One Planer (Jun 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Dead against it. Wenger won't do it and I'm not sure the next managers will do it either. 
I just don't think it will ever be the Arsenal way but I might be wrong.
		
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So you would settle for mediocrity over success?


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## USER1999 (Jun 1, 2017)

Arsenal can spend money. Lots of it. There is not, and has not been for ages a strategy for targetting and buying players. There is a ludicrous wage structure that rewards mediocrity. There are coaches that would be unemployable elsewhere. There is a board with no power, an absent owner who has invested in Arsenal holdings plc, not Arsenal football club. There was no plan to replace Wenger, and there will not be in two years time. He wont allow it, and Kroenke doesnt give a monkeys as long as his investment grows. Usmanov is powerless  and not even on the board.

Oh, and dont forget that Kroenkes wife is worth 40bn on her own.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I don't think Arsenal have moved at all in 20 years. The goal posts moved when arab and russian money came in. You can't dispute that without that intervention that Arsenal would have won 4 or 5 more titles. Look at the tables if you don't believe what I say.

So it's a bit silly to say that Arsenal have gone backwards because we are still losing the major trophies to the same 3 big teams (barring the freak Leicester win).

The minute Spurs, Liverpool, Everton et al dominate major trophies on their budgets then I will put my hands up. But until then it's no shock horror to see Arsenal nestled in behind Chelsea, Utd, City every year.

Yes there will brief appearances from others from time to time but they usually fall away again whereas Arsenal have shown to be the most consistent and undisputed challengers to the big 3 for decades.
		
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Sawtooth - did Arsenal improve or go backwards this season ?


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## sawtooth (Jun 1, 2017)

One Planer said:



			So you would settle for mediocrity over success?
		
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I'd rather we win doing it our way and it's not like we never win. 3 major trophies in the last 4 years.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 1, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Arsenal can spend money. Lots of it. There is not, and has not been for ages a strategy for targetting and buying players. There is a ludicrous wage structure that rewards mediocrity. There are coaches that would be unemployable elsewhere. There is a board with no power, an absent owner who has invested in Arsenal holdings plc, not Arsenal football club. There was no plan to replace Wenger, and there will not be in two years time. He wont allow it, and Kroenke doesnt give a monkeys as long as his investment grows. Usmanov is powerless  and not even on the board.

Oh, and dont forget that Kroenkes wife is worth 40bn on her own.
		
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40bn? 
What currency are we talking here?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I'd rather we win doing it our way and it's not like we never win. 3 major trophies in the last 4 years.
		
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The FA Cup is not a major trophy - it's domestic Cup and it's treated as such by the clubs with many using it to play second string or youth players 

The League and the CL are the major trophies and you haven't got anywhere near winning either in years


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## One Planer (Jun 1, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I'd rather we win doing it our way and it's not like we never win. 3 major trophies in the last 4 years.
		
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How long will cup wins satisfy fans?

Surely a supporters priority would be league?

Genuine question here.  In your opinion, when does owner investment turn to buying the league?


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## USER1999 (Jun 1, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			40bn? 
What currency are we talking here?
		
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Dollars. She is one of the Walmart familly.


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## USER1999 (Jun 1, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Dollars. She is one of the Walmart familly.
		
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Wiki has her at 6, but that is rubbish.
Either way, she isnt short of cash.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 1, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Wiki has her at 6, but that is rubbish.
Either way, she isnt short of cash.
		
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Yep she's minted,but certainly not $40bn minted. 
Maybe her Hubbie should ask her to buy him Ronaldo for xmas.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 1, 2017)

Is De Gea off to Real? 
Personally I can't see any reason why he'd not fancy it. 
And that's not having a pop at UTD.


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## Kellfire (Jun 1, 2017)

I'd say De Gea will go and we'll make a pretty penny when he does.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 1, 2017)

Who would you replace him with? He has been a heck of a keeper for you.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 1, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			I'd say De Gea will go and we'll make a pretty penny when he does.
		
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Yep,got to be the most expensive keeper. 
Who do you get to replace him?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 1, 2017)

Few extra pennies to spend, all teams listed

Chelsea paid Â£150.8m by Premier League after winning 2016-17 title
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40125394


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## Dan2501 (Jun 1, 2017)

Arsenal have bid 100m Euros for Mbappe according to L'Equipe. Would love to see him in the Premier League.


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## sawtooth (Jun 1, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Arsenal have bid 100m Euros for Mbappe according to L'Equipe. Would love to see him in the Premier League.
		
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Maybe it's a ploy to force the price up &#128535;

It would be great to land him.


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## Kellfire (Jun 1, 2017)

How quickly you abandon your principles...


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## sawtooth (Jun 1, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			How quickly you abandon your principles...
		
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It's the clubs money! , I've never had a problem with them spending that.


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## Fish (Jun 2, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I'd rather we win doing it our way and it's not like we never win. 3 major trophies in the last 4 years.
		
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Yep, a half decent cup team, that's all Arsenal are, ok for an odd sprint now and then but no good for the marathons, and now they are out of being in the frame also. 

I wonder if it's the same in the bedroom for Wenger, always the bridesmaid and others always coming ahead of him &#128540;


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## Slab (Jun 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Few extra pennies to spend, all teams listed

Chelsea paid Â£150.8m by Premier League after winning 2016-17 title
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40125394

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Absolutely staggering sums in there

I feel like there's a very big bubble gonna burst one day


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The FA Cup is not a major trophy - it's domestic Cup and it's treated as such by the clubs with many using it to play second string or youth players 

The League and the CL are the major trophies and you haven't got anywhere near winning either in years
		
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That isn't what you've said historically and have always gone on about it being about winning trophies. That's changed now Arsenal won the FA cup. There can only be one PL and CL winner and realistically these are always going to go to the biggest spending clubs who can afford the best and deepest squads. That means the rest are playing for domestic honours and the FA cup rates higher than the league cup and does guarantee European football regardless of any league position


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2017)

Slab said:



			Absolutely staggering sums in there

I feel like there's a very big bubble gonna burst one day
		
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That bubble has supppsed to have burst every year over the last decade - when the telly companies around the globe are happy to keep biding in the billions for the coverage then it's going to keep growing. 

I don't think it will burst , it may level out at touch but that would only happen with a wage cap in place


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## Slab (Jun 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That bubble has supppsed to have burst every year over the last decade - when the telly companies around the globe are happy to keep biding in the billions for the coverage then it's going to keep growing. 

I don't think it will burst , it may level out at touch but that would only happen with a wage cap in place
		
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For the sake of the sport I hope you're right but with so many other routes to view content cropping up and typical 3 yr deals it could well be that there's more than enough time for technology development and viewer behaviour to fundamentally change such that the rights are devalued considerably from one deal to the next, with the rather large 'pop' noise to accompany it (because I don't hear about these clubs stashing it away for a rainy day)


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## Dan2501 (Jun 2, 2017)

Just read that Madrid had already offered 120m Euros for Mbappe and Monaco rejected it. Never change Arsene, never change. Least he'll be able to say "We almost signed Mbappe".


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## ger147 (Jun 2, 2017)

Slab said:



			For the sake of the sport I hope you're right but with so many other routes to view content cropping up and typical 3 yr deals it could well be that there's more than enough time for technology development and viewer behaviour to fundamentally change such that the rights are devalued considerably from one deal to the next, with the rather large 'pop' noise to accompany it (because I don't hear about these clubs stashing it away for a rainy day)
		
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Sky can only put their prices up so far before they start to lose customers, and ultimately its the subscribers who pick up the tab for these deals.

We've already seen the first instance of it getting too expensive when Sky didn't bid any higher than BT to keep the Champions League as at Â£968m, Sky recognised they couldn't make any money at that price.

The same is bound to happen at some point with the EPL if the bids continue to spiral upwards at the same rate as they have done at the last few renewals.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 2, 2017)

Sky will bid for items that a/ keep subscribers b/ appeal to their advertisers. F1 is massive for the advertisers, hit a great target market, and have a hard core that will subscribe. PL has a hard core of fans who will subscribe, plenty of advertisers for that group as well. 

Personally I am not interested in the CL and wouldn't pay to watch it. I don't care that is has gone to BT and I wont leave Sky because of it. I'm sure Sky will have done their research and discovered more like me and it is not worth the fee paid.

The PL is central to Sky and they will keep paying whatever it costs. Without the PL subscribers would leave in droves, me for starters. They can't afford to lose the PL. They are trapped by the PL, not healthy for them really.


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## Dan2501 (Jun 2, 2017)

City have made their second signing of the season, Benjamin Mendy from Monaco. Pep must have the backing of the City owners to build for the long term, has spent over Â£100m on three young players. Have the makings of a very exciting squad with Ederson, Mendy, Stones, Sane, Bernardo Silva, Roberts and Jesus. 

Silva and Jesus will be a really exciting combination next season. Silva has been superb for Monaco.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2017)

That's three quality signings for City - Silva and Mendy from Monaco are superb , was hoping we would look at Mendy


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## ger147 (Jun 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Sky will bid for items that a/ keep subscribers b/ appeal to their advertisers. F1 is massive for the advertisers, hit a great target market, and have a hard core that will subscribe. PL has a hard core of fans who will subscribe, plenty of advertisers for that group as well. 

Personally I am not interested in the CL and wouldn't pay to watch it. I don't care that is has gone to BT and I wont leave Sky because of it. I'm sure Sky will have done their research and discovered more like me and it is not worth the fee paid.

The PL is central to Sky and they will keep paying whatever it costs. Without the PL subscribers would leave in droves, me for starters. They can't afford to lose the PL. They are trapped by the PL, not healthy for them really.
		
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Thry also can't afford to pay "whatever it costs" to keep the EPL.

They won't be able to up their revenue sufficiently if it jumps to Â£10bn for example next time, so there is deffo a limit. I can see them stretching to break even or even running it at a slight loss and then try and get their profits from other products but they can't go beyond that price wise.

Having worked at Sky myself for over 8 years the "we need the EPL" model always concerned me as you are 100% right i.e. when/if they ever lose EPL coverage they will lose a load of subscribers.


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## Slime (Jun 2, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			I'd say De Gea will go and we'll make a pretty penny when he does.
		
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Lord Tyrion said:



*Who would you replace him with?* He has been a heck of a keeper for you.
		
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I heard somewhere that Romero played 20 times for United last season and only conceded 6 goals.
Maybe we already have De Gea's replacement, although I really hope he stays.
If not, keep Romero and spend the De Gea money on Harry Kane ................ please !!


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## Stuart_C (Jun 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That's three quality signings for City - Silva and Mendy from Monaco are superb , was hoping we would look at Mendy
		
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CL football and we're still shopping in aldi buying Chelsea rejects, I thought CL allowed us to buy the top players?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			CL football and we're still shopping in aldi buying Chelsea rejects, I thought CL allowed us to buy the top players?
		
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Season hasn't even finished yet - is it worth worrying right now ? Are you really going to start stamping feet now just because City are going mad ? 

And understand that Solanki rejected the Chelsea contract as opposed to being rejected by the club.


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## Dan2501 (Jun 2, 2017)

Solanke's good. Unlikely to be a first-team star next season, but has a lot of potential and is a very low-risk signing at Â£3m.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Season hasn't even finished yet - is it worth worrying right now ? Are you really going to start stamping feet now just because City are going mad ? 

And understand that Solanki rejected the Chelsea contract as opposed to being rejected by the club.
		
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Our season finished almost 3wks ago. 

Stamping my feet? I'm concerned that we're being heavily  linked with Salah and the likes. Hardly kicking and screaming. 

Do you want me to keep schtum and swallow everything FSG do or don't do?


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## sawtooth (Jun 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Season hasn't even finished yet - is it worth worrying right now ? Are you really going to start stamping feet now just because City are going mad ? 

And understand that Solanki rejected the Chelsea contract as opposed to being rejected by the club.
		
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Yeah but if what they offered peanuts to keep him and could only offer squad football then it's tantamount to rejecting him.

But if it helps to say that you tempted him away and he prefers to play for a mighty team like Liverpool blah blah blah then fill yer boots.


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## Dan2501 (Jun 2, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Our season finished almost 3wks ago. 

Stamping my feet? I'm concerned that we're being heavily  linked with Salah and the likes. Hardly kicking and screaming. 

Do you want me to keep schtum and swallow everything FSG do or don't do?
		
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Salah's incredible. Might not have done much at Chelsea, but made 13 appearances. Since moving to Serie A he's been exceptional, especially since moving to Roma. Under Klopp he could be scary good.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 2, 2017)

Slime said:



			I heard somewhere that Romero played 20 times for United last season and only conceded 6 goals.
Maybe we already have De Gea's replacement, although I really hope he stays.
If not, keep Romero and spend the De Gea money on Harry Kane ................ please !!
		
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Promoting a player from within, how unfashionable . Would save you a lot of pennies though. 

I'm afraid you can't have Kane. I don't want your mob having someone who scores that often. Keep Zlatan, he scores enough to keep getting picked but blocks the momentum of the team. Works very nicely for the rest of us :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Our season finished almost 3wks ago. 

Stamping my feet? I'm concerned that we're being heavily  linked with Salah and the likes. Hardly kicking and screaming. 

Do you want me to keep schtum and swallow everything FSG do or don't do?
		
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Linked ? We get linked to literally hundreds of players every single day - last year every man and his dog was moaning that we wasted money on Mane and just getting Matip on a free etc - far too many start throwing their hands up before players have even arrived or bids have been put in - i have no doubt that scouts and the club are working right now to get the players in that Klopp wants - since when did we start reacting to what is in the media ? Even if Salah does arrive - he looks a very good player who will provide more width and cover for Mane etc which is something that crippled us last season. 

But surely we can't be getting worried when the window isn't even open yet.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah but if what they offered peanuts to keep him and could only offer squad football then it's tantamount to rejecting him.

But if it helps to say that you tempted him away and he prefers to play for a mighty team like Liverpool blah blah blah then fill yer boots.
		
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Eh ? I have no idea what will happen with Solanke - he just seems a young player who wanted to move clubs to get a chance to play , will never get that at Chelsea but knows that he could get it with us so turns them down to join us. It's a couple mil on a young player. 

But now you are back maybe you can answer the question on if last season was a step backwards for Arsenal or not ?


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## sawtooth (Jun 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Eh ? I have no idea what will happen with Solanke - he just seems a young player who wanted to move clubs to get a chance to play , will never get that at Chelsea but knows that he could get it with us so turns them down to join us. It's a couple mil on a young player. 

But now you are back maybe you can answer the question on if last season was a step backwards for Arsenal or not ?
		
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How can it be we won a major trophy!?


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## Stuart_C (Jun 2, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Salah's incredible. Might not have done much at Chelsea, but made 13 appearances. Since moving to Serie A he's been exceptional, especially since moving to Roma. Under Klopp he could be scary good.
		
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Aquilani looked immense at Roma too.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			How can it be we won a major trophy!?
		
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Well first of it's the FA Cup not a major trophy - teams don't treat it as a major trophy. 

Secondly you also won it last year 

In the league you went from 2nd to 5th despite spending Â£100mil and losing no key players 

So did Arsenal go backwards this season


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Aquilani looked immense at Roma too.
		
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Aquliani looked injured at Roma and should we really not look to Italy because of one player ? 

Salah has had a great season in a Roma side that pushed Juve all the way. The guy is very very quick and would provide needed strength in depth and also help Klopp play with two wide men - why would it be such a bad signing ?


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## Stuart_C (Jun 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Linked ? We get linked to literally hundreds of players every single day - last year every man and his dog was moaning that we wasted money on Mane and just getting Matip on a free etc - far too many start throwing their hands up before players have even arrived or bids have been put in - i have no doubt that scouts and the club are working right now to get the players in that Klopp wants - since when did we start reacting to what is in the media ? *Even if Salah does arrive - he looks a very good player who will provide more width and cover for Mane etc which is something that crippled us last season. *

But surely we can't be getting worried when the window isn't even open yet.
		
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Cover for Mane?? We're desperate for quality players to go straight into the starting 11 not cover for players. 

Get the transfer business done so come pre season everyone is ready come the first game of season.


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## sawtooth (Jun 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well first of it's the FA Cup not a major trophy - teams don't treat it as a major trophy. 

Secondly you also won it last year 

In the league you went from 2nd to 5th despite spending Â£100mil and losing no key players 

So did Arsenal go backwards this season
		
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We didn't win it last year, and despite what you say it's still a major trophy.

Yes and some players take a while to find their feet in the premier league. Xhaka is starting to look like a very good buy now and will get even better next year.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Cover for Mane?? We're desperate for quality players to go straight into the starting 11 not cover for players. 

Get the transfer business done so come pre season everyone is ready come the first game of season.
		
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More width "and cover for Mane" - he is capable of both Stu depending on how Klopp wants to play depending on the oppositions - there is no one starting 11 anymore 

Pre season isn't for a month or so yet - the window hasn't even opened yet so maybe let's just wait until the business actually starts

If we get Salah he will be a very good player who will play regualry


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			We didn't win it last year, and despite what you say it's still a major trophy.

Yes and some players take a while to find their feet in the premier league. Xhaka is starting to look like a very good buy now and will get even better next year.
		
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Two major trophies - the league and the CL , the FA Cup doesn't add anything beyond a day out , it doesn't bring in the players , it doesn't open doors for the bigger comps - players like Sanchez aren't going to hang around because you won the FA Cup - harsh reality it's a domestic Cup. 

The league is the big one followed by the CL in Europe and Arsenal went backwards in both despite a huge layout in funds - only the delusion would think any different


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## jp5 (Jun 2, 2017)

Tough to see the FA cup as a major trophy when you can win it with a couple of good performances and a bit of luck.

The Premier League over 38 games and the Champions League against Europe's elite are the top tier trophies.

Guess it depends on your definition of major!


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## sawtooth (Jun 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Two major trophies - the league and the CL , the FA Cup doesn't add anything beyond a day out , it doesn't bring in the players , it doesn't open doors for the bigger comps - players like Sanchez aren't going to hang around because you won the FA Cup - harsh reality it's a domestic Cup. 

The league is the big one followed by the CL in Europe and Arsenal went backwards in both despite a huge layout in funds - only the delusion would think any different
		
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Won 3 more games then last year, scored more goals, got more points, healthier goal difference. Won a cup and missed out on CL 1 point.

If that's your idea of going backwards so be it.

Sanchez will stay around if the money is right.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Aquliani looked injured at Roma and should we really not look to Italy because of one player ? 

Salah has had a great season in a Roma side that pushed Juve all the way. The guy is very very quick and would provide needed strength in depth and also help Klopp play with two wide men - why would it be such a bad signing ?
		
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Balotelli came from Italy


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## garyinderry (Jun 2, 2017)

Funny how some seem to think liverpool bave breezed past arsenal.   They took 6 points off the gunners and finished 1 point ahead. 

The margins were very fine in the end. Two poor teams stumbling around in the second half of the season. 

Squad wise, I'd fancy arsenal to move back ahead of Liverpool next year before either team has had any in going or out goings. 

For arsenal, it obvious a lot depends on keeping sanchez. 

Liverpool scraped into the top 4 with the distractions of European football and out of the cup early doors.  They need more quality for the first team plus a pile of better back up players. 

Going to be an interesting summer. 

Arsenal fans will surely be going buck mental if there doesn't seem to be the required money pumped into transfers this summer. The same negative atmosphere can and most likely will rear it's head during the first few games of the year should arsenal start in any way sluggish. They usally play well in the early season sunshine so may be delayed till the colder months.  

Spurs played the best football for me last year. If they can hold onto their players and add some more quality, I think it could be their year. 

Time will tell all.


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## Dan2501 (Jun 2, 2017)

Comparing Salah to Aquilani is pretty funny. Aquilani never looked anywhere near as impressive as Salah. In a competition full of hugely impressive attacking talent, Salah was one of the stand-out attackers in the league. He's incredibly quick, has great feet and has a knack for scoring goals. He'd be an excellent signing. I'd love to have him at Everton.



sawtooth said:



			Won 3 more games then last year, scored more goals, got more points, healthier goal difference. Won a cup and missed out on CL 1 point.

If that's your idea of going backwards so be it.

Sanchez will stay around if the money is right.
		
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More spin, you should be a politician. You've gone from 2nd to 5th and got hammered in the CL. You went backwards.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 2, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Comparing Salah to Aquilani is pretty funny. Aquilani never looked anywhere near as impressive as Salah. In a competition full of hugely impressive attacking talent, Salah was one of the stand-out attackers in the league. He's incredibly quick, has great feet and has a knack for scoring goals. He'd be an excellent signing. I'd love to have him at Everton.



More spin, you should be a politician. You've gone from 2nd to 5th and got hammered in the CL. You went backwards.
		
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Surely if people used Leicester winning the League because other top teams faltered, we can't criticise Arsenal if this season was stronger and more competitive


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## sawtooth (Jun 2, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Comparing Salah to Aquilani is pretty funny. Aquilani never looked anywhere near as impressive as Salah. In a competition full of hugely impressive attacking talent, Salah was one of the stand-out attackers in the league. He's incredibly quick, has great feet and has a knack for scoring goals. He'd be an excellent signing. I'd love to have him at Everton.



More spin, you should be a politician. You've gone from 2nd to 5th and got hammered in the CL. You went backwards.
		
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Major Trophy count 2016 - 0
Major Trophy count 2017 - 1

I wouldn't mind going 'backwards' again next year and win 2 major trophies&#128077;


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Won 3 more games then last year, scored more goals, got more points, healthier goal difference. Won a cup and missed out on CL 1 point.

If that's your idea of going backwards so be it.

Sanchez will stay around if the money is right.
		
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Alister Campbell would be proud

Only stat that matters is the league position - you went from 2nd to 5th - that's going backwards simple as that


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## Dan2501 (Jun 2, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Major Trophy count 2016 - 0
Major Trophy count 2017 - 1

I wouldn't mind going 'backwards' again next year and win 2 major trophies&#128077;
		
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Why settle at 2? You could go big next year and win the FA Cup, Carling cup and Community Shield. 3 major trophies. &#128077;


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## pbrown7582 (Jun 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Alister Campbell would be proud

Only stat that matters is the league position - you went from 2nd to 5th - that's going backwards simple as that
		
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or going from 5th to 6th winning a cup and qualifying for  CL group stage that going backwards as well?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			or going from 5th to 6th winning a cup and qualifying for  CL group stage that going backwards as well?  

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In the league yes it's going backwards - winning the Europa balanced it out because it allowed entry into CL


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## Slime (Jun 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Promoting a player from within, how unfashionable . Would save you a lot of pennies though. 

*I'm afraid you can't have Kane. I don't want your mob having someone who scores that often.* Keep Zlatan, he scores enough to keep getting picked but blocks the momentum of the team. Works very nicely for the rest of us :thup:
		
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Hey, please allow me to dare to dream.
I'm 99.99% sure we won't get him ............................. but I was also 99.99% sure we'd lost De Gea a couple of years ago.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 2, 2017)

Slime, every player has a price. Spurs fans know that only too well. It is just a matter of how high are you prepared to go. Getting Â£60m for De Gea would be a good addition to your funds that would help that dream, particularly if you have a ready made replacement keeper. Anyway, the current paper talk has you going for Rom. Â£75m please :whoo:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In the league yes it's going backwards - winning the Europa balanced it out because it allowed entry into CL
		
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As a Club they've moved forwards 2-4 doesn't get a trophy just entry into group stages for 2nd and knockout stages for the other 2, Europa League winners go straight to knockout, are you saying LPool had a better season than Utd because you finished 2 places higher?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 2, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			We didn't win it last year, and despite what you say it's still a major trophy.

Yes and some players take a while to find their feet in the premier league. Xhaka is starting to look like a very good buy now and will get even better next year.
		
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Funny how he's banged on and on that it's all about winning stuff and not getting top 4 and CL and so you do that and now it's only a tin pot trophy. Had Liverpool won it, the Klopp revolution would be in full pomp.


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## pbrown7582 (Jun 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Slime, every player has a price. Spurs fans know that only too well. It is just a matter of how high are you prepared to go. Getting Â£60m for De Gea would be a good addition to your funds that would help that dream, particularly if you have a ready made replacement keeper. Anyway, the current paper talk has you going for Rom. Â£75m please :whoo:
		
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That's an expensive flat track bully.......


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## Slime (Jun 2, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			That's an expensive flat track bully....... 

Click to expand...

I know .................. that's why I want Kane.


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## sawtooth (Jun 2, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Funny how he's banged on and on that it's all about winning stuff and not getting top 4 and CL and so you do that and now it's only a tin pot trophy. Had Liverpool won it, the Klopp revolution would be in full pomp.
		
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Exactly, the "do you get a trophy for that" line was used quite a bit I recall.

Looking forward to seeing what the mighty Klopp can win this year. He still has an awful lot to prove.


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## ger147 (Jun 2, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Exactly, the "do you get a trophy for that" line was used quite a bit I recall.

Looking forward to seeing what the mighty Klopp can win this year. He still has an awful lot to prove.
		
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He won the PL Manager of the Month Award for Septembet last season, what more does the man have to do to win over the doubters...


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## Dan2501 (Jun 2, 2017)

Depends on the trophy. I'd rather have had Liverpool's season than Arsenal's, but would rather have had United's than either, hell, I'd rather have had United's season over Spurs'. CL Qualification is worth far more than an FA Cup win, and for me, CL Qualification + Trophies > CL Qualification and a higher league position.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Exactly, the "do you get a trophy for that" line was used quite a bit I recall.

Looking forward to seeing what the mighty Klopp can win this year. He still has an awful lot to prove.
		
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I think it's quite clear that the trophies I talk about that the big clubs aim to win are the league title or the CL - they are the major trophies that the top clubs aim for at the beginning of the year. Not the league cup and not the FA Cup - they are domestic cups that are a nice day out but they are the big major comps - suggesting as such shows a lack of knowledge or just totally blinkered. You constantly talked about top 4 only as success - it's not , it's a stepping stone to help a club challenge for success. You can spin it anyway you want but right now I wouldn't swap the season Arsenal had for the season we had - CL is important for us to move forward - the FA Cup isn't - it's a nice little trophy to add to a good season, for a mid table team it's a trophy that they would like to win - for a team with bigger aspirations then it shouldn't be the goal. As harsh as that is on the FA Cup that's just the way it is - it's 6 games during a KO. 

If you believe the majority of Arsenal fans believe this season was a step forward because of the FA Cup then you are delusional or on a wind up

Klopp has been in the club 18 months - in his first full season he took us from 8th to 4th , this year I expect him to move is forward again


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## Stuart_C (Jun 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Aquliani looked injured at Roma and should we really not look to Italy because of one player ? 

Salah has had a great season in a Roma side that pushed Juve all the way. The guy is very very quick and would provide needed strength in depth and also help Klopp play with two wide men - *why would it be such a bad signing ?*

Click to expand...

He never really done much at Chelsea from memory, players rarely fail here go away to Europe play well then come back better players.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 2, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			He never really done much at Chelsea from memory, players rarely fail here go away to Europe play well then come back better players.
		
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Rarely but they can. Matic, De Bruyne are two very recent ones. You do need to look carefully though. They may not be suited to the English style of football. The slower pace and less physicality of Italian and Spanish football may suit some players more.


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## Slime (Jun 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think it's quite clear that the trophies I talk about that the big clubs aim to win are the league title or the CL - they are the major trophies that the top clubs aim for at the beginning of the year. Not the league cup and not the FA Cup - they are domestic cups that are a nice day out but they are the big major comps - suggesting as such shows a lack of knowledge or just totally blinkered. You constantly talked about top 4 only as success - it's not , it's a stepping stone to help a club challenge for success. You can spin it anyway you want but* right now I wouldn't swap the season Arsenal had for the season we had* - CL is important for us to move forward - the FA Cup isn't - it's a nice little trophy to add to a good season, for a mid table team it's a trophy that they would like to win - for a team with bigger aspirations then it shouldn't be the goal. As harsh as that is on the FA Cup that's just the way it is - it's 6 games during a KO.
		
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But I expect everyone, with the exception of Chelsea, would swap their season for United's .


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			He never really done much at Chelsea from memory, players rarely fail here go away to Europe play well then come back better players.
		
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He never got a chance at Chelsea - Matic also got kicked away from Chelsea , De Bruyne etc - no doing well at Chelsea should never be a marker for a player. The guy is a quality player , quick , skillfull , can play wide or through the middle , scores goals and assists - for me it would be a very good signing


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 2, 2017)

Slime said:



			But I expect everyone, with the exception of Chelsea, would swap their season for United's .
		
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2 hopes of getting Phil to say he'd rather have your season than theirs :rofl: :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2017)

Slime said:



			But I expect everyone, with the exception of Chelsea, would swap their season for United's .
		
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Because of the CL entry from the Europa Lge all teams bar Chelsea would swap with Utd - it's a no brainer


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 2, 2017)

So going on the fact people are saying Europa League is a Major Trophy to win and to do that Utd played 19 games, would Arsenal or Everton be better off concentrating on that to get CL football or via the 38 game PL route, 
Taking club allegiances away, is it a better more realistic opportunity for success?


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 2, 2017)

The Europa league is a comp that none of the big clubs want to be in. 
If you are in it it's because you either weren't good enough to qualify for the CL or you got knocked out early doors. 
Personally I don't think any team knocked out of the CL should go into it. 
If your team does end up in it it's obviously nice to win,but it is a 2nd rate comp.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 2, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			The Europa league is a comp that none of the big clubs want to be in. 
If you are in it it's because you either weren't good enough to qualify for the CL or you got knocked out early doors. 
Personally I don't think any team knocked out of the CL should go into it. 
If your team does end up in it it's obviously nice to win,but it is a 2nd rate comp.
		
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Not disagreeing with any of that, but doesn't answer what I asked, 
As much as the CL is the most prestigious comp it also has some dross in it, you could probably pick 5 or 6 of next years last 8 now.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			So going on the fact people are saying Europa League is a Major Trophy to win and to do that Utd played 19 games, would Arsenal or Everton be better off concentrating on that to get CL football or via the 38 game PL route, 
Taking club allegiances away, is it a better more realistic opportunity for success?
		
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Looking at the prize money dished out this season, it would make sense to do exactly that. Ok you need a bit of luck with the draw but with the right tactics and discipline it's doable.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			So going on the fact people are saying Europa League is a Major Trophy to win and to do that Utd played 19 games, would Arsenal or Everton be better off concentrating on that to get CL football or via the 38 game PL route, 
Taking club allegiances away, is it a better more realistic opportunity for success?
		
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Looking at current squads I'd certainly say europa is best route for Everton. 

Atm I'd expect Liverpool to be severely tested for a top four by Arsenal if they're playing CL and be odds on for 5th or lower if they mess up and end up with europa. 

Made Â£200 on Utd winning it last year and will be punting on arsenal this time as at 12/1 and think they are easily biggest team in it so will depend on CL drop outs.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 2, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Looking at the prize money dished out this season, it would make sense to do exactly that. Ok you need a bit of luck with the draw but with the right tactics and discipline it's doable.
		
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The chances of Arsenal or Everton winning the PL next is season is extremely low, imo, Arsenal will have a better chance of top 4, but again that will be dificult, if both teams played their strongest teams from the off in the EL then it could have a knock on effect in the League and gives 2 shots at CL the season after.
With no disrespect from the 5 in the CL next season, 4 will be disappointed and if they all get to the later stages, again, for 4 of them their only route to CL football the season after is via the Prem and 5 into 4 doesn't go.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He never got a chance at Chelsea - Matic also got kicked away from Chelsea , De Bruyne etc - no doing well at Chelsea should never be a marker for a player. The guy is a quality player , quick , skillfull , can play wide or through the middle , scores goals and assists - for me it would be a very good signing
		
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If Liverpool don't make any real Marquee signings,Greizman,Mbappe,Rodriguez for example,will you be showing your disapproval? 
Because that would show ambition to win the Prem or CL. 

Or will you big up any mediocre signings that Klopp makes & be happy just making up the numbers.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 2, 2017)

At this stage I'm impressed with City. Doing their business early, get the players in so they will be straight in to their pre season. It's how to do it.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			At this stage I'm impressed with City. Doing their business early, get the players in so they will be straight in to their pre season. It's how to do it.
		
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Looks like Pep as got a open Cheque book. 
His 1st season was shocking,hoping for same again &#128513;


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 2, 2017)

Buying more pretty midfielders and an untested, in this country, keeper is not solving the obvious problems City have. 

Maybe he will be buying Juve defenders after Saturday is over &#128561;. Then everyone really would have to watch out.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Buying more pretty midfielders and an untested, in this country, keeper is not solving the obvious problems City have. 

Maybe he will be buying Juve defenders after Saturday is over &#128561;. Then everyone really would have to watch out.
		
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If they can keep Kompany fit it would be like a new signing. 
They look so much better at the back when he plays. 
I was surprised to see Toure get a new contract.


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## sawtooth (Jun 2, 2017)

I don't think Wenger will give 2 hoots about the Europa league and will be 100% committed to doing well in the PL.

I might be wrong but I would not be surprised at all if we went out of EL at the earliest possible phase......deliberately I may add.


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## Fish (Jun 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He never got a chance at Chelsea - Matic also got kicked away from Chelsea , De Bruyne etc - no doing well at Chelsea should never be a marker for a player. The guy is a quality player , quick , skillfull , can play wide or through the middle , scores goals and assists - for me it would be a very good signing
		
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I disagree, I think Salah got enough opportunities to prove himself, and didn't. 

Don't forget we don't get to see them in training and doing what the manager and coaching staff want, and if that ain't happening in training, then he's not going to force himself into the starting line up.  

Having the room in leagues abroad count for nothing much in PL, how many times have we seen big names come to the PL and die, far more I think than those that come over and are still a big hit.

He may have improved a bit more now, but there's no guarantee he'll be any different than he was at Chelsea, and quite simply, that wasn't good enough IMO.

Again, with Matic and De Bruyne, at the time they didn't suit the manager's style or possible formation/tactics or got back what he wanted from them, so they went away, grew some more and came back better players, that's just players maturing and learning their trade more.  

That's not a failure on Chelsea's or any clubs part who has let a player go only for them to grow and become much better elsewhere, no doubt he was better suited for various reasons.

Salah for me is just another version of SWP, he'll show up now and then when he's got the room, but can be easily taken out of the game because he's a one-trick pony.


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## jp5 (Jun 3, 2017)

Europa League games included in next years season tickets, so wouldn't expect to see much weakened teams!

Surprised they did include them and not leave them as discounted add ons as they do with the League cup where we usually play the kids.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I don't think Wenger will give 2 hoots about the Europa league and will be 100% committed to doing well in the PL.

I might be wrong but I would not be surprised at all if we went out of EL at the earliest possible phase......deliberately I may add.
		
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This sums up perfectly your failure to grasp your own argument. 

You constantly tell us how 4th is success as it gets CL and because you can't compete financially with the big 3.

Add in LPool and Spurs and like this season 4th now becomes even harder.

4th gets you to the knockout stages of CL.

All the above takes 38 Games.

Therefore logically, a big team like Arsenal with 20 years of european football experience should be able to mount a very strong campaign in the Europa League, it's 19 games, you're very unlikely to meet Bayern or your other bogey teams.

Winning it means a European Trophy (the old Cup Winners Cup and UEFA Cup were never dismissed as minor trophies so why this is I'm confused) and entry into the group stage of the following years CL stage, the equivalent of finishing 2nd in the PL.

I am not saying ignore the PL but to dismiss the EL the way you have is either incredibly arrogant or incredibly niave.


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## sawtooth (Jun 3, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			This sums up perfectly your failure to grasp your own argument. 

You constantly tell us how 4th is success as it gets CL and because you can't compete financially with the big 3.

Add in LPool and Spurs and like this season 4th now becomes even harder.

4th gets you to the knockout stages of CL.

All the above takes 38 Games.

Therefore logically, a big team like Arsenal with 20 years of european football experience should be able to mount a very strong campaign in the Europa League, it's 19 games, you're very unlikely to meet Bayern or your other bogey teams.

Winning it means a European Trophy (the old Cup Winners Cup and UEFA Cup were never dismissed as minor trophies so why this is I'm confused) and entry into the group stage of the following years CL stage, the equivalent of finishing 2nd in the PL.

I am not saying ignore the PL but to dismiss the EL the way you have is either incredibly arrogant or incredibly niave.
		
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The competition sucks. I have never liked the idea of it , I'm not a fan.

I don't think Wenger will recognise it as a worthy trophy either but that's just my opinion. I think league , CL, FA cup and top 4 is all that would interest him.

I would say more arrogant than naive because I know it's a waste of space.


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## Hobbit (Jun 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I don't think Wenger will give 2 hoots about the Europa league and will be 100% committed to doing well in the PL.

I might be wrong but I would not be surprised at all if we went out of EL at the earliest possible phase......deliberately I may add.
		
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I doubt it will be deliberately as it will almost certainly be the kids on show. And I do hope Wenger is committed to doing better in the league. I also hope he tinges it with realism rather than what he spouts in public.


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## sawtooth (Jun 3, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			I doubt it will be deliberately as it will almost certainly be the kids on show. And I do hope Wenger is committed to doing better in the league. I also he tinges it with realismrather than what he spouts in public.
		
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Well if he fields kids then he will be expecting a early exit hopefully. The sooner Arsenal are out of that comp the better. I much prefer the old uefa cup and cup winners cup format, all this league business is nonsense - bad enough with the CL.


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## Slime (Jun 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			The competition sucks. I have never liked the idea of it , I'm not a fan.

I don't think Wenger will recognise it as a worthy trophy either but that's just my opinion. I think league , CL, FA cup and top 4 is all that would interest him.

I would say more arrogant than naive because *I know it's a waste of space.*

Click to expand...

That just comes across as arrogant, bitter and pathetic .................... sour grapes or what?
Convince Manchester United, their fans and their sponsors that it's a waste of space!


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## sawtooth (Jun 3, 2017)

Slime said:



			That just comes across as arrogant, bitter and pathetic .................... sour grapes or what?
Convince Manchester United, their fans and their sponsors that it's a waste of space!
		
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It's valuable as a CL entry but as an honour in its own right it's pants. 

No sour grapes at all, I have always thought that and always will. If they go back to straight knockout of all cup winners or league runners up then fair enough but nobody takes any notice or can even remember the winners.  And CL 3rd place teams going into it half way through what's that all about? It's farcical.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			It's valuable as a CL entry but as an honour in its own right it's pants. 

No sour grapes at all, I have always thought that and always will. If they go back to straight knockout of all cup winners or league runners up then fair enough but nobody takes any notice or can even remember the winners.  And CL 3rd place teams going into it half way through what's that all about? It's farcical.
		
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Its a good step above the FA Cup and I expect the winners will always remember and it's a good chance for Wenger to win in Europe - not sure Arsenal can be arrogant to dismiss it when it might be there best chance of CL football


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 3, 2017)

Looks like the old Sawtooth alarms gone off. 
Ting Ting &#128514;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 3, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Its a good step above the FA Cup and I expect the winners will always remember and it's a good chance for Wenger to win in Europe - not sure Arsenal can be arrogant to dismiss it when it might be there best chance of CL football
		
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Totally agree, the way things are going the EL could be the only european football seen at the emirates for the next few years


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## sawtooth (Jun 3, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Totally agree, the way things are going the EL could be the only european football seen at the emirates for the next few years
		
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That might be so but it doesn't make the Europa League any more prestigious. Man Utd used it as a way into the CL which is fair enough but I doubt Mourinho would have bothered with it seriously if Utd's CL place was already safe by league position.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			That might be so but it doesn't make the Europa League any more prestigious. Man Utd used it as a way into the CL which is fair enough but I doubt Mourinho would have bothered with it seriously if Utd's CL place was already safe by league position.
		
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You can't take the semi-final seriously if you've been knocked out in the group stages!
No one is saying make it a priority, but surely any team would want to do well in all comps they enter and go as far as they can, you stated you hope you're knocked out early.

I take it you'd rather finish out of EL places than finish 5th or 6th and qualify?


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## Papas1982 (Jun 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			That might be so but it doesn't make the Europa League any more prestigious. Man Utd used it as a way into the CL which is fair enough but I doubt Mourinho would have bothered with it seriously if Utd's CL place was already safe by league position.
		
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Id say it was exactly the opposite. 

If if they were close to the title I could see it being put aside. But if they were 2nd 10 adrift and 10 clear. I'm sure Utd would want to win it. It's a trophy.


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## sawtooth (Jun 3, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			You can't take the semi-final seriously if you've been knocked out in the group stages!
No one is saying make it a priority, but surely any team would want to do well in all comps they enter and go as far as they can, you stated you hope you're knocked out early.

I take it you'd rather finish out of EL places than finish 5th or 6th and qualify?
		
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So if Utd were already safe in top 4 and they were in a championship race,  do you seriously think Utd would continue to play a full strength team on a Thursday night to try and win the Europa Cup? I don't.

It suited Utd this year because they ran out of options.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			So if Utd were already safe in top 4 and they were in a championship race,  do you seriously think Utd would continue to play a full strength team on a Thursday night to try and win the Europa Cup? I don't.

It suited Utd this year because they ran out of options.
		
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That's all what ifs, I'm not saying any team would.

Again, you stated you hope you go out as soon as possible, that point you're now avoiding.

If you had a crap league season and couldn't make top 4, do you think Arsenal should take it seriously and try to win it to get CL football?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 3, 2017)

I'm with Sawtooth. I think the Europa league is pants. It's a huge drain on a club's resources and has a disproportionate affect on the rest of their season. Too many Mickey Mouse matches all over far flung parts of Europe. I'd have no problem in Koeman playing the kids and going out early.

Half the number of matches and make it relevant again.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 3, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm with Sawtooth. I think the Europa league is pants. It's a huge drain on a club's resources and has a disproportionate affect on the rest of their season. Too many Mickey Mouse matches all over far flung parts of Europe. I'd have no problem in Koeman playing the kids and going out early.

Half the number of matches and make it relevant again.
		
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I really don't get this "go out early" point of view, how is a team like Everton meant to get european experience or attract the best players?

Surely you want your team (whoever you support) to do well in every game they play, I get that we need to prioritise said competitions but not to the point of not trying or playing kids, kids will end up with more experience than 1st eleven.

Right now I'd say Everton's priorities for next season imo should be: PL, EL, FA Cup then Carling(or whatever it is).


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## sawtooth (Jun 3, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			that's all what ifs, i'm not saying any team would.

Again, you stated you hope you go out as soon as possible, that point you're now avoiding.

If you had a crap league season and couldn't make top 4, do you think arsenal should take it seriously and try to win it to get cl football?
		
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i not only hope that we go out early, i wished that we didnt even need to enter it in the first place!!


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## sawtooth (Jun 3, 2017)

Giroud scored a hatrick for France yesterday, their first one recorded since 2000. That's 16 goals in 16 appearances for France and he's scored only 1 goal less for France than Benzema but Giroud played 19 fewer games. Deschamps says Giroud is their best goal scorer.

Still some golf monthly forummers don't rate him.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 3, 2017)

Paul, I think the EL is a drain and has such a detrimental effect on the rest of the season that it is a negative not a positive. There are so many games to play that the chances of winning is quite limited. Our squad is not big enough to cope with those extra games and still compete in the league and domestic cups. I'd rather be in the CL or nothing as far as Europe is concerned.

We will have to disagree on this one


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## Papas1982 (Jun 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Giroud scored a hatrick for France yesterday, their first one recorded since 2000. That's 16 goals in 16 appearances for France and he's scored only 1 goal less for France than Benzema but Giroud played 19 fewer games. Deschamps says Giroud is their best goal scorer.

Still some golf monthly forummers don't rate him. 

Click to expand...

So maybe you should fill your team with French players so he performs at Arsenal. 

His goalscoring record domestically doesn't compare to the rest of the top strikers. 

Would you honestly rather him than Kane, Lukaku, Aguero, Sanchez or Costa?

even an ageing Zlatan outperformed him. 

He finished with 12 league goals. Midfielders and relegation fighters out scored him.


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## Slime (Jun 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			i not only hope that we go out early, *i wished that we didnt even need to enter it in the first place!!*

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Well, you should have finished in the top four then.
Wenger only has himself to blame ............. though obviously not in your opinion.


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## sawtooth (Jun 3, 2017)

Slime said:



			Well, you should have finished in the top four then.
Wenger only has himself to blame ............. though obviously not in your opinion.
		
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Its not really a blame thing, fair play to Spurs and Liverpool for being that much better than Arsenal over the 38 games. 

For the record its no one individuals fault either, its a team game involving all of the coaches, players, physios,manager, etc, etc.


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## Slime (Jun 3, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Its not really a blame thing, fair play to Spurs and Liverpool for being that much better than Arsenal over the 38 games. 

For the record its no one individuals fault either, *its a team game involving all of the coaches, players, physios,manager, etc, etc.*

Click to expand...

......... and Wenger is at the top table, where the buck stops. He is in charge of all of the above.


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## Fish (Jun 4, 2017)

Slime said:



			......... and Wenger is at the top table, where the buck stops. He is in charge of all of the above.
		
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Yeah, he's the top of the untouchables!


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## sawtooth (Jun 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			Yeah, he's the top of the untouchables!
		
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Like your club, you have no soul Robin.

Wenger has given 20 years of his life to Arsenal , yes he gets paid handsomely for it but money can't be his motivation when he's 67 years old and already has more than he could ever spend. 

Anyone who loves his work as much as he does deserves a bit more respect don't you think?


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## Hobbit (Jun 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Like your club, you have no soul Robin.

Wenger has given 20 years of his life to Arsenal , yes he gets paid handsomely for it but money can't be his motivation when he's 67 years old and already has more than he could ever spend. 

Anyone who loves his work as much as he does deserves a bit more respect don't you think?
		
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Can't disagree with any of that. But would you play Ian Wright if he turned up at the ground for the next home game? No, because he's past it.

Wenger has signed for two years, so let's see how next season goes. It would be a crying shame to see him sacked if things don't go well.


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## Fish (Jun 4, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Like your club, you have no soul Robin.

Wenger has given 20 years of his life to Arsenal , yes he gets paid handsomely for it but money can't be his motivation when he's 67 years old and already has more than he could ever spend. 

Anyone who loves his work as much as he does deserves a bit more respect don't you think?
		
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I wholly admit I have no soul where business and result based events take place as everything has a use by date and Wenger is past his sell by date. 

He had the perfect opportunity to bow out gracefully probably 1 or 2 years ago but he's now risking, or imo has already achieved risking his past achievements to be all undone by now failing, as last season was clearly a failure as was the season before imo. 

Ozil will only stay for the money if he gets what he wants and Sanchez will only stay if there are marquee signings built around him, or he's off imo. 

I can see Ox leaving under the same premis so the big question will be, can Wenger change his mentality towards buying and risk buying the right players for the immediate moment and future, I personally don't think so, I think what you see is what you get with Wenger and his old school thinking is miles behind what Arsenal need now to keep in touch of they'll fall even further behind and just become one of the pack between 7-5 with the odd spurt here and there into CL but never challenging for the title without a huge change in attitude. 

He's yesterday's man, pure and simple.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 4, 2017)

It seems VVD is on his way to city......


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## Fish (Jun 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			It seems VVD is on his way to city......
		
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Kompany has been pretty impressive towards the end of the season and more importantly, free of injury, so, who's VVD going to be by the side of, Kompany or Stones?


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			Kompany has been pretty impressive towards the end of the season and more importantly, free of injury, so, who's VVD going to be by the side of, Kompany or Stones?
		
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But who else do they have? 
I agree that Konmany as looked good,but you just get the feeling that he could get injured at anytime. 
They definitely need to add in that area.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 4, 2017)

Wow Â£60m?? 
Crazy


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			It seems VVD is on his way to city......
		
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Lots of differing reports suggesting that a deal hasn't been done yet - but Â£60mil and Â£200k a week is a lot of money for a CB


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## Papas1982 (Jun 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lots of differing reports suggesting that a deal hasn't been done yet - but Â£60mil and Â£200k a week is a lot of money for a CB
		
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I agree. Although I think a Â£60m vvd is better than a Â£50m stones. 

Â£200k is par for the course for players commanding those fees. 

Time for our scouts outs to work magic again!


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## Stuart_C (Jun 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lots of differing reports suggesting that a deal hasn't been done yet - but Â£60mil and Â£200k a week is a lot of money for a CB
		
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Reports suggesting  that we'd agreed personal terms of Â£180k pw then tried to change it to Â£130kpw + bonus' ,*IF* it's true, it doesn't look like the manager is being "Properly" backed.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Reports suggesting  that we'd agreed personal terms of Â£180k pw then tried to change it to Â£130kpw + bonus' ,*IF* it's true, it doesn't look like the manager is being "Properly" backed.
		
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I expect the "reports" are to be taken with a pinch of salt.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I expect the "reports" are to be taken with a pinch of salt.
		
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With FSG's/Committee previous I'll keep an open mind.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			It seems VVD is on his way to city......
		
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Maybe only paper talk


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## davemc1 (Jun 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			With FSG's/Committee previous I'll keep an open mind.
		
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Continually slagging off fsg/the committee is hardly the actions of someone keeping an open mind :ears: rightly or or wrongly they have lost you're backing and trust, which is fair enough. 

I think it's fair to say they are more frugal than that of our rivals, but I don't see others banging down the door to snap us up and throw Â£100ms at it. However, I do agree it's time for Klopp to receive a serious war chest. 

As for Solanke, well I'm a bit lost on that one if truth be told, but at Â£3m it's not like we're taking a huge gamble.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 4, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			Continually slagging off fsg/the committee is hardly the actions of someone keeping an open mind :ears: rightly or or wrongly they have lost you're backing and trust, which is fair enough. 

I think it's fair to say they are more frugal than that of our rivals, but I don't see others banging down the door to snap us up and throw Â£100ms at it. However, I do agree it's time for Klopp to receive a serious war chest. 

*As for Solanke, well I'm a bit lost on that one if truth be told, but at Â£3m it's not like we're taking a huge gamble.*

Click to expand...

While I agree, do we really need him this season? This summer needs to be all about 
buying quality, not more potential.

As for VVD, klopp has been courting him since January if we fail to land him after this long for the reasons that are being reported then FSG/transfer committee/Micheal Edwards need a proper shoeing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			While I agree, do we really need him this season? This summer needs to be all about 
buying quality, not more potential.

As for VVD, klopp has been courting him since January if we fail to land him after this long for the reasons that are being reported then FSG/transfer committee/Micheal Edwards need a proper shoeing.
		
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Getting a young lad in for a couple mil isn't going to make any difference to other targets 

And every top team has been courting VVD - he is hot property and it will come down to the player and who he wants to go to. If he picks another team why is it anyone's fault ?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 4, 2017)

Getting Solanke in is only bad if he is the only striker you buy this summer. One for the bench and cup games. See how he develops. Easy decision.

VVD is going to be tricky to land as CH are massively in demand. If City come calling there is only going to be one winner.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Getting a young lad in for a couple mil isn't going to make any difference to other targets 

And every top team has been courting VVD - he is hot property and it will come down to the player and who he wants to go to. If he picks another team why is it anyone's fault ?
		
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Phil, I've not got an issue if he picks somebody else over us if we match offers, my issue is if we've agreed personal terms then tried to renegotiate a lower deal to save Â£720k a year like what is being reported. 

The money being spunked on more potential could be the difference between klopp getting his #1 target or not.

Don't forget the failed deals for salah, alli, konopylanka etc when we were in the driving seat and look what we ended up with.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 4, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Getting Solanke in is only bad if he is the only striker you buy this summer. One for the bench and cup games. See how he develops. Easy decision.

*VVD is going to be tricky to land as CH are massively in demand. If City come calling there is only going to be one winner.*

Click to expand...

Well either pay up or play Klavan. It really is that simple.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Phil, I've not got an issue if he picks somebody else over us if we match offers, my issue is if we've agreed personal terms then tried to renegotiate a lower deal to save Â£720k a year like what is being reported. 

The money being spunked on more potential could be the difference between klopp getting his #1 target or not.
		
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Â£3mil being the difference between getting a target or not ? Really ? Do you really distrust our owners that much to suggest that they wouldn't pay an extra 3m to get a signing if Klopp really wanted him - remembering how much we have paid over the odds on players since they arrived ?!

As for this renegotiate terms ?! Again are you that paranoid to believe something like that ? 

The only reports i see are The Echo has the club being prepared to match whatever City and Chelsea offer because Klopp wants him ? Along with others saying the same ? As Dave said for some reason they have lost your trust so are you going to grab every little bit of negativity and run with that ?

Every club has failed deals - Salah picked Chelsea over us , someone decided not to take the risk on Alli and Konoplankya was that not down to the owners of his club who refused to sell


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Getting a young lad in for a couple mil isn't going to make any difference to other targets 

And every top team has been courting VVD - he is hot property and it will come down to the player and who he wants to go to. If he picks another team why is it anyone's fault ?
		
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Does the same apply when Arsenal lose out on a target?


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 4, 2017)

Is he really worth the figures being mentioned? 
It really as gone crazy. 
How much would Bale or Neymar cost now?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 4, 2017)

More &#128513;. The figures are scary because he is a genuinely good CH that can cope in the PL. Lots of pricey imports in that position haven't worked recently. He is a sure bet so the price is inflated.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Â£3mil being the difference between getting a target or not ? Really ?




			Yes Phil really. That was the figure that Basel wanted more for Salah first time around no now we're looking at paying triple of what Chelsea paid for him.  Then there's the extra Â£5k a week wages they wouldn't pay Ali. Â£3m for konopylanka etc the list goes on Phil on their watch Phil.
		
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 Do you really distrust our owners that much to suggest that they wouldn't pay an extra 3m to get a signing if Klopp really wanted him - remembering how much we have paid over the odds on players since they arrived ?!




			No I don't trust them and I don't fall for their PR BS
		
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As for this renegotiate terms ?! Again are you that paranoid to believe something like that ? 




			I'm not paranoid at all and I've not said I believe it but by the same token they've got previous for failing to tie deals up. Go back to post 11562 I've even highlighted and underlined itfor you
		
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The only reports i see are The Echo has the club being prepared to match whatever City and Chelsea offer because Klopp wants him ? Along with others saying the same ? *As Dave said for some reason they have lost your trust so are you going to grab every little bit of negativity and run with that *?
		
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Some reason?? Mmmmm I wonder what that reason is Phil? Go on Phil have a guess?


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## Stuart_C (Jun 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Every club has failed deals - Salah picked Chelsea over us , someone decided not to take the risk on Alli and Konoplankya was that not down to the owners of his club who refused to sell
		
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See you fell for the PR BS, just like you did with the Sterling/Ibe BS.

Salah -Chelsea came in after we failed to stump up the extra Â£3m quid and that is a fact. 

Konopylanka- Ayre goes over to tie the deal up for 5 days and comes back with a bag of duty free and a dose off the local brass.

Â£5k pw was the stumbling block for Ali after the committee who are employed by FSG pulled the plug.

There's plenty more, I could go on but I won't.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Some reason?? Mmmmm I wonder what that reason is Phil? Go on Phil have a guess?
		
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Actually Stu when I go back to what life was like before they arrived when we were very very close to being in serious danger im very glad they came in and have spent money , as with every owner they will no doubt make mistakes , they said from the start they will want to club to be self sufficient and they haven't gone back on that. Money has been spent on players with some of it wasted with poor signings but then that's the same with every club. I'm not sure at times what people want - there is no such thing as the perfect owner , people don't want a bankroll situation like Chelsea and City , yet people say self sufficient they don't want. A lot of money has been spent - a lot , more under this ownership than anyone else. Are they perfect ? Far from it - not sure which owner is. 

As a club at times we will have to just walk away from signings to ensure we don't go mad with the fees - even Klopp himself has said that - he won't allow the club to be held for ransom if it's not needed. 

Salah - different managers now , maybe Rodgers didn't think he was worth the extra money at the time , Klopp has a different thinking about him - why is it the owners fault ? 

Ali - understand that was down again to BR not thinking he was worth the money to buy 

Konoplanyka - we bid the required amount to trigger being allowed to speak to him but the club refused - wasn't really that bothered about that signing 

But then the club did manage to get in players like Suarez and Coutinho for absolute steals , plus top players like Firmino , Mane , Lallana

Ayre is someone that has had a lot of issues in regards the deals and he is now gone. Again you seem to suggest that it's the owners refusing to pay ? 

Do you have a link to the personal terms issue with Van Djik

But we could go round in circles - I think the club is in a better position now than we were before they arrived - you clearly would prefer different owners


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## Stuart_C (Jun 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Actually Stu when I go back to what life was like before they arrived when we were very very close to being in serious danger im very glad they came in and have spent money , as with every owner they will no doubt make mistakes , they said from the start they will want to club to be self sufficient and they haven't gone back on that. Money has been spent on players with some of it wasted with poor signings but then that's the same with every club. I'm not sure at times what people want - there is no such thing as the perfect owner , people don't want a bankroll situation like Chelsea and City , yet people say self sufficient they don't want. A lot of money has been spent - a lot , more under this ownership than anyone else. Are they perfect ? Far from it - not sure which owner is. 

As a club at times we will have to just walk away from signings to ensure we don't go mad with the fees - even Klopp himself has said that - he won't allow the club to be held for ransom if it's not needed. 

Salah - different managers now , maybe Rodgers didn't think he was worth the extra money at the time , Klopp has a different thinking about him - why is it the owners fault ? 




			Rodgers wanted him!!
		
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Ali - understand that was down again to BR not thinking he was worth the money to buy 




			Again, Rodgers had met him in a hotel and spoken with him. He thought the deal was done.
		
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Konoplanyka - we bid the required amount to trigger being allowed to speak to him but the club refused - wasn't really that bothered about that signing 




			it doesn't matter if your not bothered about that signing, the manager wanted him and wasn't backed properly
		
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But then the club did manage to get in players like Suarez and Coutinho for absolute steals , plus top players like Firmino , Mane , Lallana

Ayre is someone that has had a lot of issues in regards the deals and he is now gone. Again you seem to suggest that it's the owners refusing to pay ? 

Do you have a link to the personal terms issue with Van Djik

But we could go round in circles - I think the club is in a better position now than we were before they arrived - you clearly would prefer different owners
		
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It's easy blaming Rodgers for everything, so why not put some of the blame at the owners feet?

Phil,  have a read of  this article here https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/27/liverpool-brendan-rodgers-chelsea-mohamed-salah

"The money guys" comment  sums it up.


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## sawtooth (Jun 5, 2017)

Liverpool are just not a big club anymore, be grateful Salah is even talking with you. He probably wants to go to a club that can win a trophy.

:ears:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 5, 2017)

Belgian FA have confirmed Eden Hazard has fractured his ankle, hope it's not to bad and recovers quickly from it :thup:


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 5, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Belgian FA have confirmed Eden Hazard has fractured his ankle, hope it's not to bad and recovers quickly from it :thup:
		
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And still linked with Real. 
Would he make their starting 11?


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## Papas1982 (Jun 5, 2017)

Bookies seem to think vvd is moving to our B team.


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## Kellfire (Jun 5, 2017)

Cheick Tiote has died after collapsing in training in China.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 5, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Bookies seem to think vvd is moving to our B team.
		
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The Times sport have him wanting to join Liverpool and we have increased the package to be competitive and match City - Â£200k a week , just need a few sorted which is expected to be Â£60mil ( prob Â£50mil plus add ons )


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## Slime (Jun 5, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Cheick Tiote has died after collapsing in training in China.
		
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Wow, only 30 years old. Tragic.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 5, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Cheick Tiote has died after collapsing in training in China.
		
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Very sad, no age at all.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 5, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The Times sport have him wanting to join Liverpool and we have increased the package to be competitive and match City - Â£200k a week , just need a few sorted which is expected to be Â£60mil ( prob Â£50mil plus add ons )
		
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Are you not taking this report with a pinch of salt?


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## Papas1982 (Jun 5, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The Times sport have him wanting to join Liverpool and we have increased the package to be competitive and match City - Â£200k a week , just need a few sorted which is expected to be Â£60mil ( prob Â£50mil plus add ons )
		
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Good as he is we have to be realistic and realise that we will always sell for a good price. 

Think it it just shows our ambition which is to be a prem team only. Breaking higher would need our board to have resolve. If we had the strength in last 3 years to have risked losing players on a bosman and having a two year campaign we could have surprised a few. 

At least this one looks to be sorted early.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 5, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Good as he is we have to be realistic and realise that we will always sell for a good price. 

Think it it just shows our ambition which is to be a prem team only. Breaking higher would need our board to have resolve. If we had the strength in last 3 years to have risked losing players on a bosman and having a two year campaign we could have surprised a few. 

At least this one looks to be sorted early.
		
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Got to be hard for a board when large fees are being offered - you could have had a hell of a team but ultimately ( and think Spurs will find it out as well ) players will always look to move up a level until they reach their highest - for a club like Southampton to keep the players would prob need to offer big wages which is very risky. Think you are right that they will end up being a solid Prem Team around the top 8 looking to break into Europa Lge along with teams like Everton maybe West Ham and West Brom.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 5, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Got to be hard for a board when large fees are being offered - you could have had a hell of a team but ultimately ( and think Spurs will find it out as well ) players will always look to move up a level until they reach their highest - for a club like Southampton to keep the players would prob need to offer big wages which is very risky. Think you are right that they will end up being a solid Prem Team around the top 8 looking to break into Europa Lge along with teams like Everton maybe West Ham and West Brom.
		
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10, 20 years ago I'd have loved us to be a stable team lol. 

Nowadays it's frustrating. I wouldn't want us to jeopardise our budget. Just say to a player, you signed a contract for 5, we are gonna keep you on same wage for the next 3 at least and you aren't leaving. If they kick off. Reserves for 5 and ruin em. Unfortunatley that's never gonna happen at any club. Let alone ours with a business minded owner leader our club.


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## USER1999 (Jun 5, 2017)

So, Szczesny goes to Juve for 14m. May be a good deal, but if Ospina leaves, then Arsenal will need a back up keeper, unless Martines is viewed as enough.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 5, 2017)

Got to love this dead time and the transfer speculation especially the "whispers" http://www.skysports.com/transfer-centre

I wonder if anyone has ever researched how many times a player is linked to the same club over the close season from "sources" and never does. So often a player is a cert to go somewhere and never does. At least it keeps the forum ticking over!! Will Griezmann ever come to the PL. Will Arsenal spend. Will whoever Liverpool sign next be the second coming? Just how much will Chelsea, United and City spend? Who will be a PL revolution and who will be a waste of cash?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 5, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			10, 20 years ago I'd have loved us to be a stable team lol. 

Nowadays it's frustrating. I wouldn't want us to jeopardise our budget. Just say to a player, you signed a contract for 5, we are gonna keep you on same wage for the next 3 at least and you aren't leaving. If they kick off. Reserves for 5 and ruin em. Unfortunatley that's never gonna happen at any club. Let alone ours with a business minded owner leader our club.
		
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I think most clubs bar possibly Madrid and Barcelona all have the same frustrations - would love to be able to keep people to their contracts but we all know its never going to happen and every club will at one stage go for a player under contract , nature of the beast. Some very good and interesting rumours in regards Liverpool - most just worthy of a giggle but couple that are seriou s- Van Djik and Salah the two main ones with rumours for the Hull LB , Lacazette , Neita still and now Werner - all players that we need as well.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 5, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			10, 20 years ago I'd have loved us to be a stable team lol. 

Nowadays it's frustrating. I wouldn't want us to jeopardise our budget. Just say to a player, you signed a contract for 5, we are gonna keep you on same wage for the next 3 at least and you aren't leaving. If they kick off. Reserves for 5 and ruin em. Unfortunatley that's never gonna happen at any club. Let alone ours with a business minded owner leader our club.
		
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Even when we (Fulham) were a PL side we were a selling side and even now with the likes of Sessignon and Cairney this will continue again (look how much we let Celtic get Dembele for). It's now the norm for the majority of PL sides to be selling sides and it's a testament to the Southampton set up the way you've continued to be raided regularly and yet have been able to set yourself as a stable mid table side.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 6, 2017)

Reckon the transfers will start hotting up 

Lukaku stating that he knows where he is going next year - reckon it will be Man Utd 

Van Djik has said that Liverpool is his preferred option - would be great news if we get the fee sorted 

Once the internationals are out of the way then can see things bein sorted


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## Fish (Jun 6, 2017)

Man City are trying to save face in the media saying he's not worth Â£60m (yet Stones was worth Â£50m ðŸ˜³ ) and looks like they've been beat to the punch, but not on money terms, but on VVD wanting to play for Klopp over Guardiola. 

Money doesn't always talk, although personal terms need to be agreed, he's 80% Anfield bound already imo.


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## Fish (Jun 6, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lukaku stating that he knows where he is going next year - reckon it will be Man Utd
		
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Can't see that, he's hardly a Jose fanboy? 

I can see him coming to the Bridge, although I'm not convinced he's what we need, that will depend on others coming & going. 

Unless he wants a change from the PL, then Bayern will get him.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 6, 2017)

Southampton reported LPool to the FA for making an illegal approach to VVD.


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## Fish (Jun 6, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Southampton reported LPool to the FA for making an illegal approach to VVD.
		
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Just read this, looks like LFC have tried something dodgy to land their man from their academy &#128540;&#128514;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 6, 2017)

Fish said:



			Just read this, looks like LFC have tried something dodgy to land their man from their academy &#128540;&#128514;
		
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They've also put out a statement saying they won't be held to ransom over Salah!
Yesterday getting both, today trying to be cheap and snidey :rofl:


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## Fish (Jun 6, 2017)

Chelsea & Manchester City only Premier League sides in 'Europe's top 10'

Real Madrid

Real Madrid leapfrogged Barcelona into top spot in the Euro Club Index

Real Madrid have been crowned the best team in Europe for a record 12th time - and won the trophy for the third time in four years.

So how do the rest compare?

According to a European club ranking list by sports data company Gracenote, only two English clubs - Premier League champions Chelsea (7th) and Manchester City (8th) - place among the top 10 sides on the continent.

Chelsea overtook Pep Guardiola's side as the highest Premier League side despite not being in Europe this season.

Zinedine Zidane's Madrid side, who also won La Liga, replaced rivals Barcelona at the top of Gracenote's Euro Club Index.

FA Cup winners Arsenal (11th) dropped out of the top 10, but remain above north London rivals Tottenham Hotspur (13th).

Leicester City, the last remaining English club in the Champions League before being knocked out of the quarter-finals by Atletico Madrid, were 48th, and Europa League champions Manchester United 16th.

The rankings are produced from results over the past four seasons, but the most recent campaign carries a weight of around two-thirds.

Some of your information will be collected when you use this feature. Find out more
'Liverpool perform like West Brom'

Mauricio Pochettino guided his Spurs side to second in the Premier League this season as the White Hart Lane outfit finished above Arsenal for the first time in 22 years.

But it is the Gunners who occupy a higher spot in the list despite finishing fifth and missing out on a Champions League spot for the first time in manager Arsene Wenger's 21-year reign.

"There is very little difference between Arsenal and Tottenham in terms of rating points on the ranking," said head of analysis at Gracenote Simon Gleave.

"Arsenal's consistency over the past seasons means that they have remained above Tottenham.

"But another season like this one and Spurs will overtake."

Liverpool (19th) also rank lower than Arsenal and 16th-placed Manchester United, despite Jurgen Klopp's side finishing higher in English football's top flight last term.

Gleave says the Reds' ranking reflects their domestic inconsistency over the past four seasons especially against "smaller" clubs.

"Basically, under Klopp, Liverpool performs at the level of a Premier League champion in matches against the big clubs, but at the level of West Bromwich Albion against the rest," he added.

Bournemouth were the most improved Premier League club, rising from 122nd to 97th in the list, while Sunderland dropped from 104th to 185th.

How does it work?

Teams collect or lose points depending on the result of each match, both domestically - including cup competitions - and in Europe, but the amount of points depends on the gulf between the two sides.

For example, a home Chelsea win against Sunderland is worth very few points, in contrast to a Crystal Palace away win at Stamford Bridge.

There is an extra bonus for an entire league if one of its clubs performs well in Europe.

Which country ranks best?

Predictably, Spain's La Liga remains Europe's strongest competition, ahead of Germany's Bundesliga and England's Premier League.

However, while La Liga may boast the Euro Club Index's top two, with Atletico Madrid in fourth, it is the Bundesliga that provides the most teams in the top 100 with 16.

Three of those - Bayern Munich (3rd) and Borussia Dortmund (9th), Hoffenheim (23rd) - are in the top 25, and it was Bundesliga runners-up RB Leipzig who gained more Euro Club Index rating points (702) than any other club this season and moved up 142 places to 58th.

"The league is stronger than the other big leagues in terms of depth of quality in its clubs," explains Gleave.

"The Bundesliga's 16th best club on the ranking, Hamburger SV, is ranked 82nd in Europe for example whereas the 16th best in the Premier League Burnley is 116th."

French champions AS Monaco, meanwhile, improved the most of any team beginning the season in Europe's top-100, climbing to 12th from 40th with a 578 point improvement.

Juventus's Champions League final defeat saw them lose 25 points and slip one place to fifth below Atletico Madrid.

The Euro Club Index

Position	Team	Points	Index movement from June 2016

1	Real Madrid	4,442	+1
2	Barcelona	4,343	-1
3	Bayern Munich	4,053	-
4	Atletico Madrid	3,917	-
5	Juventus	3,910	+1
6	PSG	3,853	-1
7	Chelsea	3,582	+7
8	Manchester City	3,495	-
9	Borussia Dortmund	3,482	-2
10	Napoli	3,464	+2
11	Arsenal	3,426	-2
12	AS Monaco	3,392	+28
13	Tottenham	3,379	+6
14	AS Roma	3,340	-1
15	Sevilla	3,336	-4
16	Manchester United	3,334	+1
17	Benfica	3,274	-7
18	Shaktar Donetsk	3,199	+7
19	Liverpool	3,191	+1
20	Villarreal	3,122	-2


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## Fish (Jun 6, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			They've also put out a statement saying they won't be held to ransom over Salah!
Yesterday getting both, today trying to be cheap and snidey :rofl:
		
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It's the Liverpool way, lower than a snakes belly &#128540;&#128514;

&#128521;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 6, 2017)

Fish said:



			It's the Liverpool way, lower than a snakes belly &#128540;&#128514;

&#128521;
		
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VVD is on a 5 yr contract and Soton did refuse to let Wanyama go for 12 months,


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## pbrown7582 (Jun 6, 2017)

Fish said:



			Just read this, looks like LFC have tried something dodgy to land their man from their academy &#55357;&#56860;&#55357;&#56834;
		
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nothing new there ask the lad from Stoke' parents about his school fees.......


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 6, 2017)

Considering how often they buy Southampton players you would have thought Liverpool would have good relations, or want to keep good relations, with the club.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 6, 2017)

Fish said:



			It's the Liverpool way, lower than a snakes belly &#128540;&#128514;

&#128521;
		
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We are all just learning from Chelsea


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## Stuart_C (Jun 6, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			They've also put out a statement saying they won't be held to ransom over Salah!
Yesterday getting both, today trying to be cheap and snidey :rofl:
		
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You'd think FSG/Commitee/MikeEdwards would've learnt from the last time they tried to sign Salah, for the sake of Â£3m then, we're now looking to pay an extra Â£20m to secure him. 

Although some will believe the PR spiel that he chose Chelsea over us.....


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 6, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			You'd think FSG/Commitee/MikeEdwards would've learnt from the last time they tried to sign Salah, for the sake of Â£3m then, we're now looking to pay an extra Â£20m to secure him. 

Although some will believe the PR spiel that he chose Chelsea over us.....
		
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I know it's all paper talk and rumour, but you've even got some sites claiming the VVD deal depends on selling Sakho and some saying Saints have received no offers, really not good for the genuine fans all this on the bus off the bus.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 6, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I know it's all paper talk and rumour, but you've even got some sites claiming the VVD deal depends on selling Sakho and some saying Saints have received no offers, really not good for the genuine fans all this on the bus off the bus.
		
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It wouldn't surprise me with those in charge. Micheal Edwards the sporting director is negotiating transfers, he Was The video analyst iirc fella 6months ago .


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## Fish (Jun 6, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			We are all just learning from Chelsea 

Click to expand...

Hmm, so your saying Chelsea has more/longer history than Liverpool &#128540;


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## Fish (Jun 6, 2017)

I remember all the anger that was pointed towards Chelsea with the 'unsettling' of Stones at Everton who was apparently never for sale and then went to City, what a great duck & dive dodged bullet that was for us.  

However, if no official approach has been made to Saints from Liverpool to discuss anything with the player and they have indeed been in touch with him directly or indirectly by banding about figures for a player still under contract, well, what's good for the Goose as they say.......


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 6, 2017)

Fish said:



			Hmm, so your saying Chelsea has more/longer history than Liverpool &#128540;
		
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Certainly when it comes to illegal approaches they have &#128521;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 6, 2017)

Fish said:



			I remember all the anger that was pointed towards Chelsea with the 'unsettling' of Stones at Everton who was apparently never for sale and then went to City, what a great duck & dive dodged bullet that was for us.  

However, if no official approach has been made to Saints from Liverpool to discuss anything with the player and they have indeed been in touch with him directly or indirectly by banding about figures for a player still under contract, well, what's good for the Goose as they say.......
		
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Reports on twitter saying Lukaku has reached a deal with Chelsea, only needs clubs to agree a fee &#128514;&#128514;


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 6, 2017)

Paul, would you want money only or cash plus a few Chelsea players?


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## Fish (Jun 6, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Reports on twitter saying Lukaku has reached a deal with Chelsea, only needs clubs to agree a fee &#128514;&#128514;
		
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It wouldn't and hasn't surprised me, the issue for Rom at the time was Jose, but we have a new manager, new formation/s, different squad, tactics etc and Rom now has more PL experience, but can he step up to the demands of a bigger team and it's demands.


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## Fish (Jun 6, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Paul, would you want money only or cash plus a few Chelsea players?
		
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A few &#128540;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 6, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Paul, would you want money only or cash plus a few Chelsea players?
		
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Down to Koeman mate, if there's a particular player he wants all well and good.
I'd trust him.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 6, 2017)

Fish said:



			It wouldn't and hasn't surprised me, the issue for Rom at the time was Jose, but we have a new manager, new formation/s, different squad, tactics etc and Rom now has more PL experience, but can he step up to the demands of a bigger team and it's demands.
		
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I think it depends on Costa staying and how Conte would use him, on what I've seen I think Conte will only go after players that will give him what he wants, don't think he'd risk a signing on a maybe fit.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 6, 2017)

Fish said:



			A few &#128540;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;
		
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A few of your youngsters I think he means


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 6, 2017)

Aye, I don't expect to get Hazard and Kante. However, I would take Batshuayi as a direct replacement, you aren't using him, one of your talented but never likely to get a match youngsters and another Â£50m. 

That is about the going rate for a regular and proven PL goalscorer.


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## Fish (Jun 6, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Aye, I don't expect to get Hazard and Kante. However, I would take Batshuayi as a direct replacement, you aren't using him, one of your talented but never likely to get a match youngsters and another Â£50m. 

That is about the going rate for a regular and proven PL goalscorer.
		
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So you want Batshuayi, a youth player and Â£50m ðŸ˜³  

We've played a few youngsters this season, Conte wants to use them and with CL this season I can see a few more getting on the bench and even starting in the lesser domestic cups.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 6, 2017)

Wondering if the Lukaku situation is any different to VVD, both players apparently have agreed terms and neither current club has been approached, only difference is Lukaku has 2 years left and VVD has 5.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 6, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Wondering if the Lukaku situation is any different to VVD, both players apparently have agreed terms and neither current club has been approached, only difference is Lukaku has 2 years left and VVD has 5.
		
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Tapping up happens across all levels of football and it needs to stop but whilst there's excessive amounts of money to be made it will continue to happen. The only way to stop it is by having substantial bans/penalties to clubs and agents.

I don't know why Liverpool just don't attempt to sign Southampton's ecruitment department, it'll be cheaper long term.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 6, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Tapping up happens across all levels of football and it needs to stop but whilst there's excessive amounts of money to be made it will continue to happen. The only way to stop it is by having substantial bans/penalties to clubs and agents.

I don't know why Liverpool just don't attempt to sign Southampton's ecruitment department, it'll be cheaper long term.
		
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Something needs to be done, more with the agents than anyone else!


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## Stuart_C (Jun 6, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Something needs to be done, more with the agents than anyone else!
		
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Agents will claim " they're only representing the player and getting the best deal possible"  though.  

Pogba's agent getting Â£20m+ For his move to Yernited last season was shocking.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 6, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Agents will claim " they're only representing the player and getting the best deal possible"  though.  

Pogba's agent getting Â£20m+ For his move to Yernited last season was shocking.
		
Click to expand...

That's why I love all these rumours, pointless until deals are done, Lukaku's agent stated Lukaku was 99.9999% signing a new contract.
Most of them couldn't lie straight in bed!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 6, 2017)

Fish said:



			So you want Batshuayi, a youth player and Â£50m ðŸ˜³  

We've played a few youngsters this season, Conte wants to use them and with CL this season I can see a few more getting on the bench and even starting in the lesser domestic cups.
		
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Why not? You'll have to pay over the odds for Lukaku so why not offset that with some players who are not getting a game. If they have any sense Chelsea should put a buy back clause in at a fixed fee so if they come good you can get them back without looking foolish and losing a packet.

I think it would be very healthy if Conte did play a few but let's wait and see on that one.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 6, 2017)

Not sure why he would go to Chelsea knowing that Costa is number 1 there unless Costa is leaving


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 6, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not sure why he would go to Chelsea knowing that Costa is number 1 there unless Costa is leaving
		
Click to expand...

Because as you've said time and time again, players want to win things and if Chelsea are agreeing terms with his agent, they obviously want him as well.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 6, 2017)

Conte played two up front at Juventus, he may go back to that. Perhaps he played Costa alone because he didn't rate the other strikers there.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 6, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Conte played two up front at Juventus, he may go back to that. Perhaps he played Costa alone because he didn't rate the other strikers there.
		
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How about three up front or a player just behind the top two. He'd have so many options.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 6, 2017)

Yes, options. Conte doesn't seem to fancy the current back ups and having only one striker is not enough.


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## garyinderry (Jun 6, 2017)

Why do you think VDV fancies Liverpool over say man city? 


Is it because he would like to move right in as the main man in Liverpool's team rather than have to win his place in city's team against the likes of stones, ottamendi and company?


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## Papas1982 (Jun 6, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Why do you think VDV fancies Liverpool over say man city? 


Is it because he would like to move right in as the main man in Liverpool's team rather than have to win his place in city's team against the likes of stones, ottamendi and company?
		
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Or wants to play for madrid or barca in a few years and thinks it'd be easier to leave them than city?

No idea really. But for Â£60m ghe's do with my blessings, just hope he doesn't fade once he's gone. Fonte anyone?


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## Fish (Jun 7, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Why not? You'll have to pay over the odds for Lukaku so why not offset that with some players who are not getting a game. If they have any sense Chelsea should put a buy back clause in at a fixed fee so if they come good you can get them back without looking foolish and losing a packet.

I think it would be very healthy if Conte did play a few but let's wait and see on that one.
		
Click to expand...

He's already played a few, but our demands are far greater than those of Everton's so they'll get their chances in lesser demanding comps and games and hopefully we'll see some come through, but it's a results based industry and finishing where Everton does is no good for us so you playing youth isn't a fair comparison!


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## Papas1982 (Jun 7, 2017)

Fish said:



			He's already played a few, but our demands are far greater than those of Everton's so they'll get their chances in lesser demanding comps and games and hopefully we'll see some come through, but it's a results based industry and finishing where Everton does is no good for us so you playing youth isn't a fair comparison!
		
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I think if you'd had a stones or Barkley in your youth they may get a chance and grasp it. 

In in recent years you've won countless youth comps but not too many make it to play for any premiership team. Let alone yoursleves. 

Totally agree its results based and as a model you seem to sell quite a few on for a profit. But I think as far as producing players from your youth, it's not something chelsea consider a viable option.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 7, 2017)

There was a good discussion on the radio about this a week or so ago. The point being made was that forget Chelsea's academy regarding producing players for its own 1st team, that is a total failure. What it does do well is bring on players at a medium pro level and sell them for a few million at a time. No superstars but solid low end PL and championship players. Whether they cover all of the academy / houses bought / signing on fees etc for that age group is not known but each year Chelsea sell some young players for a few million and keep the turnover coming. From that perspective their academy is a success.

What we will never know is whether some of those players would have developed better elsewhere, at a Southampton or Everton for example who have very good records on that front. That is one of the great imponderables.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverpool Echo reporting Southampton want 65-75 Million for VVD and Salah also might be too expensive.

The gift that just keeps giving


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## Stuart_C (Jun 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Liverpool Echo reporting Southampton want 65-75 Million for VVD and Salah also might be too expensive.

The gift that just keeps giving 

Click to expand...

It seems the Echo is falling for the PR BS.

I'm not.


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## User62651 (Jun 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Liverpool Echo reporting Southampton want 65-75 Million for VVD and Salah also might be too expensive.

The gift that just keeps giving 

Click to expand...

Celtic will get a cut of around Â£6mill on VVD transfer fee around that level. Bought him for Â£2.6mill from Groningen, sold for Â£13mill to Southampton. Nett gain after cut on Liverpool sale - ca. Â£16.4mill - easy money.

Just shows the value on good scouting in clubs.

My wee club Aberdeen might get Â£1.2 mill compo if McInnes moves to Sunderland. Team falling apart.


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## davemc1 (Jun 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			It seems the Echo is falling for the PR BS.

I'm not.
		
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Thought you where keeping an open mind..? :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Jun 7, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			Thought you where keeping an open mind..? :rofl:
		
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I am, but I know BS when I hear it, listening to your excuses has stood me in good stead :ears:


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 7, 2017)

Looks like Liverpool have ballsed up the VVD deal.


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## sawtooth (Jun 7, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Why do you think VDV fancies Liverpool over say man city? 


Is it because he would like to move right in as the main man in Liverpool's team rather than have to win his place in city's team against the likes of stones, ottamendi and company?
		
Click to expand...

The agent won't mind this sort of thing going on at all even it wasn't a legitimate bid it puts VVD out there and makes it look like clubs are after him and are willing to spend a lot of money. 

No such thing as bad publicity so they say.

VVD will move it's just a matter of who to and for how much. Can't see Soton playing hardball with Â£60M at stake.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 7, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			The agent won't mind this sort of thing going on at all even it wasn't a legitimate bid it puts VVD out there and makes it look like clubs are after him and are willing to spend a lot of money. 

No such thing as bad publicity so they say.

VVD will move it's just a matter of who to and for how much. Can't see Soton playing hardball with Â£60M at stake.
		
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Threatening lawsuit for tapping up is about as hardball as you can play isn't it?

Liverpool released a statement apologising.

Looks like this one will rumble on.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 7, 2017)

If carlsberg did transfer deals :rofl:

Statement in full:

"Liverpool Football Club would like to put on record our regret over recent media speculation regarding Southampton Football Club and player transfers between the two clubs.

"We apologise to the owner, board of directors and fans of Southampton for any misunderstanding regarding Virgil van Dijk.

"We respect Southampton's position and can confirm we have ended any interest in the player."


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## Stuart_C (Jun 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			If carlsberg did transfer deals :rofl:

Statement in full:

"Liverpool Football Club would like to put on record our regret over recent media speculation regarding Southampton Football Club and player transfers between the two clubs.

"We apologise to the owner, board of directors and fans of Southampton for any misunderstanding regarding Virgil van Dijk.

"We respect Southampton's position and can confirm we have ended any interest in the player."
		
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Why am I not surprised?

No VVD, no Salah both were the managers 1st choice, we've been here before haven't we?


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## Kellfire (Jun 7, 2017)

Can still see Liverpool getting their man if VVD holds out for the move but it's still funny watching them stumble around in the dark trying to get a relatively simple deal done with a club who love selling to them.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Why am I not surprised?

No VVD, no Salah both were the managers 1st choice, we've been here before haven't we?
		
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Why not just do things properly?


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Why not just do things properly?
		
Click to expand...

Define properly.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Define properly.
		
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Tap him up properly.....

Who is VVD's Rickie Lambert?

Maybe sign Yoshida for Â£10m then have him tap him up?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Define properly.
		
Click to expand...

Speak to the club first


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Why am I not surprised?

No VVD, no Salah both were the managers 1st choice, we've been here before haven't we?
		
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How hard would it have been for Liverpool to have approached VVD in the correct manner. A manager puts a list of the players he'd like in and the club then make a ham fisted, illegal, effort to get him. It will put other clubs on alert too surely?


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Speak to the club first
		
Click to expand...

Thats a start, but do you honestly think that happens 80% of the time nowadays?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Thats a start, but do you honestly think that happens 80% of the time nowadays?
		
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That's no excuse mate, it's like speeding no one does it until they're caught.

VVD may of made it known, just like Lukaku and Barkley have, yet no one is accussed of tapping them up, there must be more to it?

That's a very strong statement Pete, they must know they're bang to rights.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			That's no excuse mate, it's like speeding no one does it until they're caught.

VVD may of made it known, just like Lukaku and Barkley have, yet no one is accussed of tapping them up, there must be more to it?

That's a very strong statement Pete, they must know they're bang to rights.
		
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Ah presumptions by you, again.

Firstly, I'm not defending how Liverpool have gone about this. We have at times been farcical on how we have done business over the last 5 years, mainly down to Ayre and sometimes not backed up by FSG.

However, I'm talking generally here, and you have swerved the question - do you honestly that in the first instance that clubs approach the selling club more than 20% of the time now, direct?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ah presumptions by you, again.

Firstly, I'm not defending how Liverpool have gone about this. We have at times been farcical on how we have done business over the last 5 years, mainly down to Ayre and sometimes not backed up by FSG.

However, I'm talking generally here, and you have swerved the question - do you honestly that in the first instance that clubs approach the selling club more than 20% of the time now, direct?
		
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Will it make a difference to the statement? No

Why does it matter what other clubs do?

As for the % figure you've plucked out the air, why not ask me if I think that in the first instance that clubs approach the selling club first? No I don't, but like I said, I don't see the relevance


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Will it make a difference to the statement? No

Why does it matter what other clubs do?

As for the % figure you've plucked out the air, why not ask me if I think that in the first instance that clubs approach the selling club first? No I don't, but like I said, I don't see the relevance
		
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Mumbo jumbo.

Youve said that they should have done it properly. In my opinion very few approaches are done "properly" these days, with the vast majority of the time the player (or his agent) will be sounded out through intermediaries, international team mates, former team mates, agents and so called agents being asked if he would consider coming to the buying club, what wages he'd expect etc

Once the sounding out has been done, then the official approach will happen. To suggest otherwise is naive.

I'm not privy to what Liverpool have done, so cant say if we are out of order, or have over-stepped the line. Dont think anyone else is either.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Mumbo jumbo.

Youve said that they should have done it properly. In my opinion very few approaches are done "properly" these days, with the vast majority of the time the player (or his agent) will be sounded out through intermediaries, international team mates, former team mates, agents and so called agents being asked if he would consider coming to the buying club, what wages he'd expect etc

Once the sounding out has been done, then the official approach will happen. To suggest otherwise is naive.

I'm not privy to what Liverpool have done, so cant say if we are out of order, or have over-stepped the line. Dont think anyone else is either.
		
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:rofl: you're club has embarrassed themselves, you crack on mate :thup:


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## Stuart_C (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Mumbo jumbo.

Youve said that they should have done it properly. In my opinion very few approaches are done "properly" these days, with the vast majority of the time the player (or his agent) will be sounded out through intermediaries, international team mates, former team mates, agents and so called agents being asked if he would consider coming to the buying club, what wages he'd expect etc

Once the sounding out has been done, then the official approach will happen. To suggest otherwise is naive.

*I'm not privy to what Liverpool have done, so cant say if we are out of order, or have over-stepped the line.* Dont think anyone else is either.
		
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Read that statement again, FSG and their cronies have realised they've messed up and Southampton have made sure they hold the ace,  the last paragraph suggests this. 

There's no Ian Ayre to blame now, Micheal Edwards has caused this and It's obvious he's not up to the job.


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## BristolMike (Jun 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			:rofl: you're club has embarrassed themselves, you crack on mate :thup:
		
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It looks like Liverpool ghave been a bit too specific with their tapping up and haven't played the game. Generally an approach is made to an agent to see if the player would consider the move, then an approach is made to the club to have a full discussion with the player. No club wants to make an official approach and be pied by the player. 

It it looks like Liverpool went too far and VVD told the club where he wanted to go before the approach was made.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 7, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			It looks like Liverpool ghave been a bit too specific with their tapping up and haven't played the game. Generally an approach is made to an agent to see if the player would consider the move, then an approach is made to the club to have a full discussion with the player. No club wants to make an official approach and be pied by the player. 

It it looks like Liverpool went too far and VVD told the club where he wanted to go before the approach was made.
		
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http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/virgil-van-dijk-liverpool-a-13153435.amp


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			:rofl: you're club has embarrassed themselves, you crack on mate :thup:
		
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Argument won by me then.:thup:

In my 40 years of watching footy, your very own EFC have been THE most embarrassing protagonists of transfer dealings so maybe your just jealous that we are trying to challenge you.


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## BristolMike (Jun 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/virgil-van-dijk-liverpool-a-13153435.amp

Click to expand...

They are right, it's a shambles and it is embarrassing. All clubs tap up to some degree, but they have obviously pushed it too far.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Argument won by me then.:thup:

In my 40 years of watching footy, your very own EFC have been THE most embarrassing protagonists of transfer dealings so maybe your just jealous that we are trying to challenge you.

Click to expand...

Yep you win mate :thup:
Lets talk about us though as it will somehow deflect from, as The Echo put it, this complete and utter shambles :rofl:


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Read that statement again, FSG and their cronies have realised they've messed up and Southampton have made sure they hold the ace,  the last paragraph suggests this. 

There's no Ian Ayre to blame now, whoever has caused this needs shoeing.
		
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What hasnt come out of it is any facts yet, but I find it weird that Soton arent taking it further, neither have the PL, and LFC have just issued an apology. It seems weird that all 3 arent taking anything further, and 2 seem to be happy with just an apology.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Yep you win mate :thup:
Lets talk about us though as it will somehow deflect from, as The Echo put it, this complete and utter shambles :rofl:
		
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Thanks for the concession.

You talk about Lphil dodging questions......


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## Stuart_C (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			What hasnt come out of it is any facts yet, but I find it weird that Soton arent taking it further, neither have the PL, and LFC have just issued an apology. It seems weird that all 3 arent taking anything further, and 2 seem to be happy with just an apology.
		
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Southampton have kept their man and they're watching Liverpool grovel. Win win situation imo


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## BristolMike (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			What hasnt come out of it is any facts yet, but I find it weird that Soton arent taking it further, neither have the PL, and LFC have just issued an apology. It seems weird that all 3 arent taking anything further, and 2 seem to be happy with just an apology.
		
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No facts? Your club have had to issue an embarrassing statement apologising for their actions. Isn't that an admission of guilt?

Saints reported Liverpool to prove a point that they aren't pushovers and won't be treated like that. The apology has shown that and embarrassed Liverpool at the same time, why would they need to take anything further if they have already got what they wanted. Liverpool look stupid, the player stays for now and if he does go it's not going to be to you lot.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Thanks for the concession.

You talk about Lphil dodging questions......
		
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I've tried mate, but you still haven't answered what the relevance of your questions are 

Were did you get 80/20 figure?


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## Papas1982 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			What hasnt come out of it is any facts yet, but I find it weird that Soton arent taking it further, neither have the PL, and LFC have just issued an apology. It seems weird that all 3 arent taking anything further, and 2 seem to be happy with just an apology.
		
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I suspect our board would be happy with the rumoured Â£60m so don't wanna burn the chance of a transfer at some point.


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## BristolMike (Jun 7, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I suspect our board would be happy with the rumoured Â£60m so don't wanna burn the chance of a transfer at some point.
		
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i think they would prob rather sell to anyone other than them ATM. It's a lot harder to get top money for a player when his mind is made up on where he wants to go before a bid comes in


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Southampton have kept their man and they're watching Liverpool grovel. Win win situation imo
		
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Kept him for now, you fancy a Â£20 bet he wont be a Soton player come September?


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## BristolMike (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Kept him for now, you fancy a Â£20 bet he wont be a Soton player come September?
		
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Id take the bet that he isn't in a liverpool top. I imagine he will end up in a city shirt


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			No facts? Your club have had to issue an embarrassing statement apologising for their actions. Isn't that an admission of guilt?

Saints reported Liverpool to prove a point that they aren't pushovers and won't be treated like that. The apology has shown that and embarrassed Liverpool at the same time, why would they need to take anything further if they have already got what they wanted. Liverpool look stupid, the player stays for now and if he does go it's not going to be to you lot.
		
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Yep, but the facts I am on about is what specifically they did illegally, how did we overstep the mark, how did we approach the player etc

Not if we did it, but what, how or where.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I've tried mate, but you still haven't answered what the relevance of your questions are 

Were did you get 80/20 figure?
		
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The 80/20 figure is purely my own estimation, be it 51/49 - do you think that the majority of approaches by buying clubs are all above board, and straight to the selling club first. Simples.....


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			Id take the bet that he isn't in a liverpool top. I imagine he will end up in a city shirt
		
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That wasnt the bet of offer.:thup:

I'd also bet he wouldnt be in a Liverpool top.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Kept him for now, you fancy a Â£20 bet he wont be a Soton player come September?
		
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It doesn't matter, I reckon Southampton will be happier that they've stopped him from joining us. They as a club don't want players dictating were they want to go etc.


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## BristolMike (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, but the facts I am on about is what specifically they did illegally, how did we overstep the mark, how did we approach the player etc

Not if we did it, but what, how or where.
		
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every club knows the players agent will be approached to ask if the player would consider the move before the club is approached. If saints have reported to the PL it would need to be more than that. The actual complaint was for contact with the player, which would suggest things went further than the agent being contacted. This could be something as simple as contact between the manager and the player, or as complex as a full meeting to thrash out full terms of the contract with incentives in place to make it known there is only one place he wants to go


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			The 80/20 figure is purely my own estimation, be it 51/49 - do you think that the majority of approaches by buying clubs are all above board, and straight to the selling club first. Simples.....
		
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No I don't, as already said.

Relevance?


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## Stuart_C (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, but the facts I am on about is what specifically they did illegally, how did we overstep the mark, how did we approach the player etc

Not if we did it, but what, how or where.
		
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That apology has made sure the facts won't be disclosed.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I suspect our board would be happy with the rumoured Â£60m so don't wanna burn the chance of a transfer at some point.
		
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Correct, and with Soton's record of generally always selling they dont want to scare off too much potential future suitors.

I actually admire Soton's stance if done for the right reasons, but until the correct level of fines/bans are put in place to deter illegal approaches, it will always carry on. Soton's board (or owner), look as if they generally are in it for the money, so dont want to scare others of for future dealings, as bad for business. Maybe a good reason why they have just accepted an apology.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, but the facts I am on about is what specifically they did illegally, how did we overstep the mark, how did we approach the player etc

Not if we did it, but what, how or where.
		
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Might just be paper talk, but this answers some of that if true. Met Klopp?

Also said Premier League not FA still have active complaint from Southampton

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...n-dijk-interest-andapologise-southampton/amp/


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			No I don't, as already said.

Relevance?
		
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The relevance being you said we should have done things properly.

IMHO the vast majority arent done properly and succeed, so why on the high horse.......oh yes, cos it's Liverpool.:thup:


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## BristolMike (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Correct, and with Soton's record of generally always selling they dont want to scare off too much potential future suitors.

I actually admire Soton's stance if done for the right reasons, but until the correct level of fines/bans are put in place to deter illegal approaches, it will always carry on. Soton's board (or owner), look as if they generally are in it for the money, so dont want to scare others of for future dealings, as bad for business. Maybe a good reason why they have just accepted an apology.
		
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would they get 60m for a player who knows where he wants to go? Single bidder generally means a lower price. That would explain the complaint in the first instance


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			That apology has made sure the facts won't be disclosed.
		
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Probably right, a Pyrrhic victory, then.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			The relevance being you said we should have done things properly.

IMHO the vast majority arent done properly and succeed, so why on the high horse.......oh yes, cos it's Liverpool.:thup:
		
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Not high horse at all, all posts done with smileys or humour. :thup:


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## davemc1 (Jun 7, 2017)

Is it a slow news day? LFC don't sign Â£60m centre half, and have to apologise for overstepping the mark in pursuit of said ch.

an what?

Ill leave my judgement on recruiting until at least the window opens... ðŸ˜€


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Might just be paper talk, but this answers some of that if true. Met Klopp?

Also said Premier League not FA still have active complaint from Southampton

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...n-dijk-interest-andapologise-southampton/amp/

Click to expand...

Looks Tosh to me, I seen Jurgen only just the other day licking some rock.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Looks Tosh to me, I seen Jurgen only just the other day licking some rock.

Click to expand...

Did it have Virgil running through the middle of it :whoo:


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			would they get 60m for a player who knows where he wants to go? Single bidder generally means a lower price. That would explain the complaint in the first instance
		
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One of the biggest factors is which club is interested.

We will only go so far, City and Chelsea have gone to places no others would in the past.

The market is no longer what 2 clubs might play, but what one is willing to pay.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Correct, and with Soton's record of generally always selling they dont want to scare off too much potential future suitors.

I actually admire Soton's stance if done for the right reasons, but until the correct level of fines/bans are put in place to deter illegal approaches, it will always carry on. Soton's board (or owner), look as if they generally are in it for the money, so dont want to scare others of for future dealings, as bad for business. Maybe a good reason why they have just accepted an apology.
		
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I don't think she's in it for the money. She runs it as a legacy to her dead dad. 
She just isn't willing to finance it like he was, so we have to be self sufficient. So she'd be foolish to bite the hand that feeds her (Liverpool).

I think they just played a little hardball this time as it had got to a point where a bid needed to be put in, so it's a not so subtle nudge.

Wouldn't be surprised for him to be with you come august.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Not high horse at all, all posts done with smileys or humour. :thup:
		
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OK then, so Liverpool SHOULD do everything above board even if the vast majority of others dont? Must be sitting on a carthorse, with a few cushions underneath your bum as well.


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## BristolMike (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			OK then, so Liverpool SHOULD do everything above board even if the vast majority of others dont? Must be sitting on a carthorse, with a few cushions underneath your bum as well. 

Click to expand...

sky are reporting that klopp has actually met the player without saints permission, hence the complain and the very quick retreat from Liverpool. Looks like they've pushed things way beyond the limits of the rules.

looks like it's Liverpool doing what the vast majority of others don't


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Did it have Virgil running through the middle of it :whoo:
		
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No it had Lukaku through it, sweet for a bit, but a bit boring and samey after so long.:thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Southampton have kept their man and they're watching Liverpool grovel. Win win situation imo
		
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Do you really think VVD is going to stay ? He wants to go so the next stage is a transfer request 

The price was also rising to Â£70mil ! That's a ridiculous amount first choice or not. 

There is still some mileage in this yet and still plenty of time left to get players in regardless of what is going on with VVD. And if he does indeed still want to come to us then can see a deal done


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			OK then, so Liverpool SHOULD do everything above board even if the vast majority of others dont? Must be sitting on a carthorse, with a few cushions underneath your bum as well. 

Click to expand...

Come on Pete, Stu said the other day Klopp's been courting him since Feb, then we've had all the talk of him being your No1 priority signing, then the player saying he wants to join, all that and then Soton complain and apparently have evidence.

I even asked what's different between VVD and the Lukaku/ Barkley situations.

And now the statement, mate you's have really put your foot in it and back tracking quickly. Last team done was Chelsea over Ashley Cole and they got a big fine and suspended points deduction or something, you've just been done over the Stoke kid, Southampton must have strong evidence, as said it was a great deal for them.

I just find it hilarious and if the shoe was on the other foot you'd all be laughing at us. :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			The 80/20 figure is purely my own estimation, be it 51/49 - do you think that the majority of approaches by buying clubs are all above board, and straight to the selling club first. Simples.....
		
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Well you can put Everton in the majority 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...2/Everton-fined-45-000-tapping-Lascelles.html


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## Papas1982 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you really think VVD is going to stay ? He wants to go so the next stage is a transfer request 

The price was also rising to Â£70mil ! That's a ridiculous amount first choice or not. 

There is still some mileage in this yet and still plenty of time left to get players in regardless of what is going on with VVD. And if he does indeed still want to come to us then can see a deal done
		
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Arguably the leagues best cb with years ahead of him. Obscene figures yes. But the big clubs are regularly paying Â£50m for players now. It's the future for Liverpool if they progress and want to buy stars and not nurture them all.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you really think VVD is going to stay ? He wants to go so the next stage is a transfer request 

The price was also rising to Â£70mil ! That's a ridiculous amount first choice or not. 

There is still some mileage in this yet and still plenty of time left to get players in regardless of what is going on with VVD. And if he does indeed still want to come to us then can see a deal done
		
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I see you've fell for PR BS


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I don't think she's in it for the money. She runs it as a legacy to her dead dad. 
She just isn't willing to finance it like he was, so we have to be self sufficient. So she'd be foolish to bite the hand that feeds her (Liverpool).

I think they just played a little hardball this time as it had got to a point where a bid needed to be put in, so it's a not so subtle nudge.

Wouldn't be surprised for him to be with you come august.
		
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I think shes caught between and betwixt. She doesnt want to invest enough money to sustain a multi-season challenge for CL places or even higher, which generally costs 500 million plus these days.

Due to the telly money, Soton have more than enough money to be self-sustaining, as long as they stay in the prem. However, when various clubs offer nearly 100 million every 2-3 transfer windows, and you keep on having more coming through it must be hard to turn the money down, especially when silly money.


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## BristolMike (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well you can put Everton in the majority 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...2/Everton-fined-45-000-tapping-Lascelles.html

Click to expand...

Is there any need to highlight any others? Liverpool screwed up with the stoke kid and have done the same here. If you stayed within the rules there would be no issue. Just accept you've screwed up and move on.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Come on Pete, Stu said the other day Klopp's been courting him since Feb, then we've had all the talk of him being your No1 priority signing, then the player saying he wants to join, all that and then Soton complain and apparently have evidence.

I even asked what's different between VVD and the Lukaku/ Barkley situations.

And now the statement, mate you's have really put your foot in it and back tracking quickly. Last team done was Chelsea over Ashley Cole and they got a big fine and suspended points deduction or something, you've just been done over the Stoke kid, Southampton must have strong evidence, as said it was a great deal for them.

I just find it hilarious and if the shoe was on the other foot you'd all be laughing at us. :thup:
		
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Again, you mis-represent me.

I do believe we have approached him illegally.:thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well you can put Everton in the majority 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...2/Everton-fined-45-000-tapping-Lascelles.html

Click to expand...

How pathetic? :rofl: 
Quick make us look better by putting Everton down :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Jun 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			How pathetic? :rofl: 
Quick make us look better by putting Everton down :rofl:
		
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I seem to remember you doing something very similar, I just can't remember exactly what though


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I seem to remember you doing something very similar, I just can't remember exactly what though 

Click to expand...

Keep thinking mate, keep thinking :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 7, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			Is there any need to highlight any others? Liverpool screwed up with the stoke kid and have done the same here. If you stayed within the rules there would be no issue. Just accept you've screwed up and move on.
		
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Pretty much every club within the Prem will have illegally approached a player - no club stays within the rules and it's naive to think so , the key for the clubs is trying to do it in a way that won't get them in trouble. Plenty Prem clubs and indeed clubs around Europe have been punished for approachs to players so let not act like this is the crime of the decade within the sport ( but it's no surprise the bitters and mancs are leaping on it ) 

Guess it's a slow news day


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## Papas1982 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think shes caught between and betwixt. She doesnt want to invest enough money to sustain a multi-season challenge for CL places or even higher, which generally costs 500 million plus these days.

Due to the telly money, Soton have more than enough money to be self-sustaining, as long as they stay in the prem. However, when various clubs offer nearly 100 million every 2-3 transfer windows, and you keep on having more coming through it must be hard to turn the money down, especially when silly money.
		
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I think it takes a committed plan to go for CL and to be brutally honest we would need massive financial help on that. Even is we got to CL and somehow didn't sell for a year. The additional squad players we'd need would cost us more than she's willing to commit. We couldnt raise that money ourselves through sponsorship or bums on seats unless we stuck around the cl for a good few years and grew our name.

Would love to see us try and step up, but as a realist and supporter throught all our struggles. I'm happy seeing us run well and giving youth a chance.

The odd cup run (win) would be even better. I mean i'd take the Mickey Mouse cup for a start!


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			How pathetic? :rofl: 
Quick make us look better by putting Everton down :rofl:
		
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Beaten at your own game.

I think that high horse has just become an ass.:rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Pretty much every club within the Prem will have illegally approached a player - no club stays within the rules and it's naive to think so , the key for the clubs is trying to do it in a way that won't get them in trouble. Plenty Prem clubs and indeed clubs around Europe have been punished for approachs to players so let not act like this is the crime of the decade within the sport ( but it's no surprise the bitters and mancs are leaping on it ) 

Guess it's a slow news day
		
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:rofl: You really are paranoid, pretty much every club you claim have done it, but your example is us and were bitter :rofl:

Your club has let the supporters down and embarrassed yourselves, check out the sports pages and media, it is the biggest current story and no different to the other day when you posted your happy posts about him choosing you, Stu did try to warn you. :thup:


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## Stuart_C (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Pretty much every club within the Prem will have illegally approached a player - no club stays within the rules and it's naive to think so , the key for the clubs is trying to do it in a way that won't get them in trouble. Plenty Prem clubs and indeed clubs around Europe have been punished for approachs to players so let not act like this is the crime of the decade within the sport ( but it's no surprise the bitters and mancs are leaping on it ) 

*Guess it's a slow news day*

Click to expand...

No Phil it's not.

It's actually an embarrassment that a footballl club of our stature is so incompetent at doing the basic stuff correctly. 

You'll probably accuse me of being paranoid or stamping my feet.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I think it takes a committed plan to go for CL and to be brutally honest we would need massive financial help on that. Even is we got to CL and somehow didn't sell for a year. The additional squad players we'd need would cost us more than she's willing to commit. We couldnt raise that money ourselves through sponsorship or bums on seats unless we stuck around the cl for a good few years and grew our name.

Would love to see us try and step up, but as a realist and supporter throught all our struggles. I'm happy seeing us run well and giving youth a chance.

The odd cup run (win) would be even better. I mean i'd take the Mickey Mouse cup for a start!
		
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Bang on, it does need a lot of cash.

I remember thinking if West Ham would have kept hold of Cole, Lampard, Defoe, Ferdinand, Johnson  and more for 3-4 seasons how well may they have done. Same with you chaps, but sadly money trumps all these days, so hard keeping hold of your great players, otherwise you could have done a Leicester, with all of the players youve let go over 4-5 years.


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## BristolMike (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Pretty much every club within the Prem will have illegally approached a player - no club stays within the rules and it's naive to think so , the key for the clubs is trying to do it in a way that won't get them in trouble. Plenty Prem clubs and indeed clubs around Europe have been punished for approachs to players so let not act like this is the crime of the decade within the sport ( but it's no surprise the bitters and mancs are leaping on it ) 

Guess it's a slow news day
		
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There is a huge difference between sounding an agent out before approaching a club for a player and doing what Liverpool have done and that's why the complaint was made. Liverpool made this big news with the statement, no other reason.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Beaten at your own game.

I think that high horse has just become an ass.:rofl:
		
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You can't call Phil an Ass mate, he'll throw his teddy :whoo:


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## Stuart_C (Jun 7, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			There is a huge difference between sounding an agent out before approaching a club for a player and doing what Liverpool have done and that's why the complaint was made. Liverpool made this big news with the statement, no other reason.
		
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They've only made a statement to save their own backsides and appease Southampton.


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## BristolMike (Jun 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			They've only made a statement to save their own backsides and appease Southampton.
		
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The statement is the reason why it's news though.  Liverpool knew they were bang to rights and this embarrassing climb down was to save their ass. Without the statement it wouldn't be as big news


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## Stuart_C (Jun 7, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			The statement is the reason why it's news though.  Liverpool knew they were bang to rights and this embarrassing climb down was to save their ass. Without the statement it wouldn't be as big news
		
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I know.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Bang on, it does need a lot of cash.

I remember thinking if West Ham would have kept hold of Cole, Lampard, Defoe, Ferdinand, Johnson  and more for 3-4 seasons how well may they have done. Same with you chaps, but sadly money trumps all these days, so hard keeping hold of your great players, otherwise you could have done a Leicester, with all of the players youve let go over 4-5 years.
		
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Agreed. We were used to selling the odd player, Shearer, Flowers, Bridge, ox, walcott when we needed the money.

Now it's not so much needing the money to survive, it's just not having enough to match players ambition.

I don't begrudge a player moving. Some do with more dignity than others of course. But any club who isn't in the current top 6 really doesn't have a realistic chance of sustained growth without a benefactor.

Leicester as inspiring as it was, is a once in a lifetime thing. So they've actually screwed all us small clubs. As we know it won't be us now lol


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			You can't call Phil an Ass mate, he'll throw his teddy :whoo:
		
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I think we both know I didnt mean Phil.

You been drinking this, instead of Chang


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 7, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Agreed. We were used to selling the odd player, Shearer, Flowers, Bridge, ox, walcott when we needed the money.

Now it's not so much needing the money to survive, it's just not having enough to match players ambition.

I don't begrudge a player moving. Some do with more dignity than others of course. But any club who isn't in the current top 7 really doesn't have a realistic chance of sustained growth without a benefactor.

Leicester as inspiring as it was, is a once in a lifetime thing. So they've actually screwed all us small clubs. As we know it won't be us now lol
		
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Fixed it for you


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## BristolMike (Jun 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I know.
		
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As a united fan I do find Liverpool squirming and being caught out quite funny, but even I would have expected a club of your size to do business in the right way. Maybe it will help you change processes


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think we both know I didnt mean Phil.

You been drinking this, instead of Chang






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Is that Liverpool's head of recruitment :rofl:


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Agreed. We were used to selling the odd player, Shearer, Flowers, Bridge, ox, walcott when we needed the money.

Now it's not so much needing the money to survive, it's just not having enough to match players ambition.

I don't begrudge a player moving. Some do with more dignity than others of course. But any club who isn't in the current top 6 really doesn't have a realistic chance of sustained growth without a benefactor.

Leicester as inspiring as it was, is a once in a lifetime thing. So they've actually screwed all us small clubs. As we know it won't be us now lol
		
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Anyway, I need to apologise. 

I once bumped into Francis Benali, I know I was on the left hand side of the escalator when I brushed him, but it was from an illegal angle.

Hope you can forgive me, and dont need to take it any further.

Didnt fancy him anyway.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Fixed it for you 

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I do recall at start of the season your chairman made some big claims. 

So if he manages to buy you a few and keep the Flat track bully you may have a chance.....


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			As a united fan I do find Liverpool squirming and being caught out quite funny, but even I would have expected a club of your size to do business in the right way. Maybe it will help you change processes
		
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Maybe we'll ask your current manager for some advice?


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## guest100718 (Jun 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Phil, I've not got an issue if he picks somebody else over us if we match offers, my issue is if we've agreed personal terms then tried to renegotiate a lower deal to save Â£720k a year like what is being reported. 

The money being spunked on more potential could be the difference between klopp getting his #1 target or not.

Don't forget the failed deals for salah, alli, konopylanka etc when we were in the driving seat and look what we ended up with.
		
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we've got Alli dele Alli.....


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## Stuart_C (Jun 7, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			As a united fan I do find Liverpool squirming and being caught out quite funny, but even I would have expected a club of your size to do business in the right way. Maybe it will help you change processes
		
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To do business in the right way, you need the right people and we haven't got that. 

The owners have made a sporting directors role and gave the job to the former head of video analyst. I'm not surprised at this embarrassing and totally incompetent  set up.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Anyway, I need to apologise. 

I once bumped into Francis Benali, I know I was on the left hand side of the escalator when I brushed him, but it was from an illegal angle.

Hope you can forgive me, and dont need to take it any further.

Didnt fancy him anyway.

Click to expand...

Apology accepted, but you'd have been better of offering Le Tiss a KFC.

I remember Rafa signing about 15 lbs for you in his time in search of the answer.

How benali was the answer for us for so long is beyound me.

Absolute gent and always gave 100% but to say he overachieved would be an understatement.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I do recall at start of the season your chairman made some big claims. 

So if he manages to buy you a few and keep the Flat track bully you may have a chance..... 

Click to expand...

They'll probably put in a bid for Shearer, a day after hes signed for someone else.Done it before, he might go there now though, now hes 40-odd.:mmm:


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## BristolMike (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Maybe we'll ask your current manager for some advice?
		
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Not seen a statement from united apologising for our club/manager having no respect for the rules and having an embarrassing climb down.  I will have to go have another look.


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## BristolMike (Jun 7, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			To do business in the right way, you need the right people and we haven't got that. 

The owners have made a sporting directors role and gave the job to the former head of video analyst. I'm not surprised at this embarrassing and totally incompetent  set up.
		
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Yeah it seems like they want yes men rather than competent professionals. If it was right that klopp personally met VVD then he should know better too, so can't really put all blame on the sporting director. He really does seem a strange appointment.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			Not seen a statement from united apologising for our club/manager having no respect for the rules and having an embarrassing climb down.  I will have to go have another look.
		
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Nope you wont find it, but in terms of operating above the law in transfers, his was the most infamous of episodes in the Ashley Cole transfer. Didnt say it was whilst at Man U.:ears:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			They'll probably put in a bid for Shearer, a day after hes signed for someone else.Done it before, he might go there now though, now hes 40-odd.:mmm:
		
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He'd still be better than your lot


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			He'd still be better than your lot 

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We've got Solanke!!!!!!!!!


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## BristolMike (Jun 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Nope you wont find it, but in terms of operating above the law in transfers, his was the most infamous of episodes in the Ashley Cole transfer. Didnt say it was whilst at Man U.:ears:
		
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He's at the biggest club in England now, it wouldn't be accepted at united. 

You really need to take a leaf out of stuart_c's book. You seem to be the sort of Liverpool fan that gives you all a bad name. It's never your fault, it's just what everyone else does. He seems to actually be intelligent and not completely biased, which is nice to see. He's right, you're a small to medium sized club&#128514;, you should do your business correctly.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 7, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			Yeah it seems like they want yes men rather than competent professionals. If it was right that klopp personally met VVD then he should know better too, so can't really put all blame on the sporting director. He really does seem a strange appointment.
		
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The sporting director is their man, they appointed/promoted him. I believe that he is just the puppet and FSG control the purse strings. 

It makes you wonder what has been said to klopp.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 8, 2017)

Solanke is linking up well with Lookman for England over in the kids World Cup in Korea :thup:


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## BristolMike (Jun 8, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			The sporting director is their man, they appointed/promoted him. I believe that he is just the puppet and FSG control the purse strings. 

It makes you wonder what has been said to klopp.
		
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Yeah he's definitely a yes man then. Klopp should know better, but maybe he was told he had the ok from saints. He won't like his reputation being damaged, especially if it's stopping him getting his targets. You will really struggle with that squad with the increase in games.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 8, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			He's at the biggest club in England now, it wouldn't be accepted at united. 

You really need to take a leaf out of stuart_c's book. You seem to be the sort of Liverpool fan that gives you all a bad name. It's never your fault, it's just what everyone else does. He seems to actually be intelligent and not completely biased, which is nice to see. He's right, you're a small to medium sized club&#62978;, you should do your business correctly.
		
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I think you'll find that most know that I call it as I see it on here.

I also have to try less hard as I support a club from the place of my birth, and I always find that the converts try toooooooooo hard.:rofl:


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## Papas1982 (Jun 8, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			He's at the biggest club in England now, it wouldn't be accepted at united. 

You really need to take a leaf out of stuart_c's book. You seem to be the sort of Liverpool fan that gives you all a bad name. It's never your fault, it's just what everyone else does. He seems to actually be intelligent and not completely biased, which is nice to see. He's right, you're a small to medium sized club&#62978;, you should do your business correctly.
		
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This post just has you doing all you claim Pete to be doing.


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## BristolMike (Jun 8, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think you'll find that most know that I call it as I see it on here.

I also have to try less hard as I support a club from the place of my birth, and I always find that the converts try toooooooooo hard.:rofl:
		
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No convert. My uncle was at united when I was a kid and my first kit was a united kit, not that I need to justify myself to anyone. I probably go up as much as you do too &#128522;


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## BristolMike (Jun 8, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			This post just has you doing all you claim Pete to be doing.
		
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United are the biggest club in England, even Liverpool fans would agree with that. I don't know if you got the small to medium sized joke, I'm fully aware they are the second biggest club in England.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 8, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			United are the biggest club in England, even Liverpool fans would agree with that. I don't know if you got the small to medium sized joke, I'm fully aware they are the second biggest club in England.
		
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Not the joke, more the accusation of blinkered loyalty when followed up with UTD not allowing it. Like Ferguson and Mourinho haven't had embarrassing moments with their behaviour in the past.

For the record. Pretty sure Utd were accused of tapping up Pogba. 

Not the time you burnt Â£80m on him. More the first time you got him.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 8, 2017)

I'm still laughing at BristolMike getting Pete and Stu mixed up :rofl:


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## BristolMike (Jun 8, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Not the joke, more the accusation of blinkered loyalty when followed up with UTD not allowing it. Like Ferguson and Mourinho haven't had embarrassing moments with their behaviour in the past.

For the record. Pretty sure Utd were accused of tapping up Pogba. 

Not the time you burnt Â£80m on him. More the first time you got him.
		
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When he signed from Le Havre? Think you will find it was reported to FIFA and was rejected as a baseless claim. The claim then was his parents were paid, rather than him being tapped up as at that point he had no professional terms signed with anyone. Fifa investigated and united were cleared, so quite different.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 8, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			No convert. My uncle was at united when I was a kid and my first kit was a united kit, not that I need to justify myself to anyone. I probably go up as much as you do too &#62986;
		
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Ah, the old uncle link, it seems prevalent on here.

I have 8 uncles, 3 support Bristol City, 3 support Bristol Rovers, 1 supports Cheltenham (wierdo) - but I really like uncle man U fan......:smirk:


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## BristolMike (Jun 8, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I'm still laughing at BristolMike getting Pete and Stu mixed up :rofl:
		
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did I, oops. Stu seems intelligent and can see the bigger picture and how bad it looks on the club, Pete seems to have his blinkers on. Is that wrong?


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## Papas1982 (Jun 8, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			When he signed from Le Havre? Think you will find it was reported to FIFA and was rejected as a baseless claim. The claim then was his parents were paid, rather than him being tapped up as at that point he had no professional terms signed with anyone. Fifa investigated and united were cleared, so quite different.
		
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Fifa ruling in a big clubs favour. Shock horror!

As Liverpool aren't getting charged. Surely they have the same end result and so are the same.

I think most would acknowledge that lots of parents have been given incentives in the past and a parent will have more influence over a 16 yr old than an agent.


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## BristolMike (Jun 8, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ah, the old uncle link, it seems prevalent on here.

I have 8 uncles, 3 support Bristol City, 3 support Bristol Rovers, 1 supports Cheltenham (wierdo) - but I really like uncle man U fan......:smirk:
		
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he was the one that bought me my first kit and was my idol as he was the footballer in the family and at united at the time. He's the reason I made it as far as I did in football. No city supports in my family, no chance at all &#128514;

I'm there pretty much every home game so more than welcome to meet for a drink when we play you at old Trafford next year &#128522;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 8, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			did I, oops. Stu seems intelligent and can see the bigger picture and how bad it looks on the club, Pete seems to have his blinkers on. Is that wrong?
		
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Stop it, my sides are aching :rofl:


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## BristolMike (Jun 8, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Fifa ruling in a big clubs favour. Shock horror!

As Liverpool aren't getting charged. Surely they have the same end result and so are the same.

I think most would acknowledge that lots of parents have been given incentives in the past and a parent will have more influence over a 16 yr old than an agent.
		
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not really the same result. One club took it all the way and were cleared as there was no proof of any payments (bank statements checked etc) and one club made an embarrassing statement apologising for their behaviour as they had been caught a couple of months previously and were charged for it


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## BristolMike (Jun 8, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Stop it, my sides are aching :rofl:
		
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is that wrong then. I'm new here &#128522;


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## Papas1982 (Jun 8, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			not really the same result. One club took it all the way and were cleared as there was no proof of any payments (bank statements checked etc) and one club made an embarrassing statement apologising for their behaviour as they had been caught a couple of months previously and were charged for it
		
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So you honestly believe no player signed by utd has ever been tapped up?

Being caught out or getting away with it is the only difference here.

If Giggs spoke yo Mourinho and said he had Bales ear, would utd explore that avenue?


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## BristolMike (Jun 8, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			So you honestly believe no player signed by utd has ever been tapped up?

Being caught out or getting away with it is the only difference here.

If Giggs spoke yo Mourinho and said he had Bales ear, would utd explore that avenue?
		
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I said that I believe every club has been in touch with an agent before speaking to a club, this gauges interest on both sides. The next step is to contact the club. I believe united would have done this with almost every transfer. The whole meeting the player etc is where Liverpool screwed up. If clubs want direct contact with a player they will usually use players who are close to them 

If Giggs had Bales ear then fire away, Giggs isn't employed by united any more.

i couldn't ever imagine united needing to put a statement out like that though, no


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## Papas1982 (Jun 8, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			I said that I believe every club has been in touch with an agent before speaking to a club, this gauges interest on both sides. The next step is to contact the club.* I believe united would have done this with almost every transfer*. The whole meeting the player etc is where Liverpool screwed up. If clubs want direct contact with a player they will usually use players who are close to them 

If Giggs had Bales ear then fire away, Giggs isn't employed by united any more.

i couldn't ever imagine united needing to put a statement out like that though, no
		
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So you accept they may not have? Therefore its more through luck than judgement that they haven't had to apologise?

Or do you believe if caught out utd wouldn't apologise?


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## BristolMike (Jun 8, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			So you accept they may not have? Therefore its more through luck than judgement that they haven't had to apologise?

Or do you believe if caught out utd wouldn't apologise?
		
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i meant they would generally approach the agent first, but in the rare occurrence they may approach a club first. There are many ways to tap a player up without needing to go and meet a player without a clubs permission anyway realistically. Liverpool were just stupid doing something that is easy to find out. Use the press, use players, but don't send your manager to go and meet the player without speaking to the club.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 8, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			i meant they would generally approach the agent first, but in the rare occurrence they may approach a club first. There are many ways to tap a player up without needing to go and meet a player without a clubs permission anyway realistically. Liverpool were just stupid doing something that is easy to find out. Use the press, use players, but don't send your manager to go and meet the player without speaking to the club.
		
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I agree they were foolish. 

Still think you're as bias as you claim anyone else to be. But then we all are when it comes to our clubs. :thup:


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## BristolMike (Jun 8, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree they were foolish. 

Still think you're as bias as you claim anyone else to be. But then we all are when it comes to our clubs. :thup:
		
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i wouldn't say I was, but then again I wouldn't think united or any top club would be so amateur with basic parts of a transfer. I'm surprised they did what they did and it has embarrassed the club. I actually respect saints for standing up to them


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## pbrown7582 (Jun 8, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			He's at the biggest club in England now, it wouldn't be accepted at united. 

.
		
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I disagree I don't think for one minute any club would turn down the signings they want because they had to do it all by the book, if they can bend the rules to get the signature on a contract they will.
Its about not getting caught IMO!


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## Fish (Jun 8, 2017)

I think this mutual agreement and acceptance of the apology which has helped in no fines being issued, which I think the next club to get caught will cite as a reference, is kind of paving the way to say, "we know you went about it the wrong way, but if you still want our man, it's going to cost you...."

Wouldn't surprise me if he still ended up at Anfield, even though they have stated they have now moved away from any interest in the player.

Klipperty must be fuming as the player clearly wanted to go to Liverpool!


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## Fish (Jun 8, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			We've got Solanke!!!!!!!!!

Click to expand...

England under 20, great prospect, yours from July 1st I hear.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 8, 2017)

Whoever has been briefing the media needs outing, we've had a running commentary about  this deal and I'm certain it's come from Liverpool. 

It's embarrassing and shows how incompetent we are.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 8, 2017)

Costa gone public stating that Conte has told him that he isn't in his plans next year - Lukaku arriving then , who imo isn't as good as Costa and it's a step backwards


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## sawtooth (Jun 8, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Costa gone public stating that Conte has told him that he isn't in his plans next year - Lukaku arriving then , who imo isn't as good as Costa and it's a step backwards
		
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Probably damage was done when Costa was prepared to go to China , showed Conte that his heart was not in the right place.

You wouldn't swap Costa for Lukaku unless you had to I would have thought.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 8, 2017)

Fish said:



			I think this mutual agreement and acceptance of the apology which has helped in no fines being issued, which I think the next club to get caught will cite as a reference, is kind of paving the way to say, "we know you went about it the wrong way, but if you still want our man, it's going to cost you...."

Wouldn't surprise me if he still ended up at Anfield, even though they have stated they have now moved away from any interest in the player.

Klipperty must be fuming as the player clearly wanted to go to Liverpool!
		
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Southampton still being quoted as accepting apology but still want PL to investigate, PL have to be careful in case they are seen as being toothless and setting a precedent.

This could rumble on.


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## Fish (Jun 8, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Costa gone public stating that Conte has told him that he isn't in his plans next year - Lukaku arriving then , who imo isn't as good as Costa and it's a step backwards
		
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As good as Costa is and has been, he can as we all know just be as much a liability at times, and with a very full calendar coming up, do we need someone who can be a little Jeckyll & Hyde on the park.

I also think he actually raises the game of defenders who he plays against, they all want a piece of him and up their game, possibly more than normal, so, whilst their are many positives, I think some of the negatives don't as much offset them, but they can be very damageable and costly for us.

As for Lukaku, if he does come to the Bridge he will have far more support around him than he's ever had or experienced at Everton being a lone frustrated wolf upfront in the main, so I don't think he can be wholly judged too much on that alone.  

Is he as an instinctive influence in the box as Costa, no of course not, can he improve his overall game and goal tally with quality players all around him and supporting him, most definitely!


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## Kellfire (Jun 8, 2017)

Regarding the Liverpool thing. Remember this isn't the first time Liverpool have apologised to get out of dodgy approaches. They apologised to Fulham over their pursuit of Clint Dempsey.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 8, 2017)

Fish said:



			As good as Costa is and has been, he can as we all know just be as much a liability at times, and with a very full calendar coming up, do we need someone who can be a little Jeckyll & Hyde on the park.

I also think he actually raises the game of defenders who he plays against, they all want a piece of him and up their game, possibly more than normal, so, whilst their are many positives, I think some of the negatives don't as much offset them, but they can be very damageable and costly for us.

As for Lukaku, if he does come to the Bridge he will have far more support around him than he's ever had or experienced at Everton being a lone frustrated wolf upfront in the main, so I don't think he can be wholly judged too much on that alone.  

Is he as an instinctive influence in the box as Costa, no of course not, can he improve his overall game and goal tally with quality players all around him and supporting him, most definitely!
		
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He may also be an unsettleing influence in the dressing room and that's the last thing Conte would want.

As for Lukaku, good luck to him, as you say he''ll be playing with better players and a better team so for those having a dig at him, he's done an excellent job for us, an apparently small team with little quality.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 8, 2017)

Fish said:



			As good as Costa is and has been, he can as we all know just be as much a liability at times, and with a very full calendar coming up, do we need someone who can be a little Jeckyll & Hyde on the park.

I also think he actually raises the game of defenders who he plays against, they all want a piece of him and up their game, possibly more than normal, so, whilst their are many positives, I think some of the negatives don't as much offset them, but they can be very damageable and costly for us.

As for Lukaku, if he does come to the Bridge he will have far more support around him than he's ever had or experienced at Everton being a lone frustrated wolf upfront in the main, so I don't think he can be wholly judged too much on that alone.  

Is he as an instinctive influence in the box as Costa, no of course not, can he improve his overall game and goal tally with quality players all around him and supporting him, most definitely!
		
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Costa in the first half of the season was a massive player for you - he must have scored at least ten crucial goals or assists through October to December during your unbeaten run that was key to winning the title , he was unplayable at times and if he is going will be a massive miss


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## Stuart_C (Jun 8, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Southampton still being quoted as accepting apology but still want PL to investigate, PL have to be careful in case they are seen as being toothless and setting a precedent.

This could rumble on.
		
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I'd be more than happy for the PL and/or FA throw the book at us, it might then make those clowns in charge to realise their model isn't working.  We need experienced football people who are well experienced  in transfer dealings.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 8, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			He may also be an unsettleing influence in the dressing room and that's the last thing Conte would want.

As for Lukaku, good luck to him, as you say he''ll be playing with better players and a better team so for those having a dig at him, he's done an excellent job for us against the little teams,he just goes missing against the big boys, an apparently small team with little quality.
		
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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 8, 2017)

Stuart_C said:





Click to expand...

:rofl: AR5E :rofl:


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 8, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			did I, oops. Stu seems intelligent and can see the bigger picture and how bad it looks on the club, Pete seems to have his blinkers on. Is that wrong?
		
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Wow.

Ive said that Liverpool did do it, Ive also said it is embarrassing for the club, so don't know where you think the blinkers come from.

What I have said is that I believe that over 80% of transfers are started behind the selling clubs back.

Your the one banging on about biggest club in the world (don't see the relevance of that point), United having never done anything wrong, ever, ever, Amen.

Are yours red glasses Oakleys?


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## BristolMike (Jun 8, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Wow.

Ive said that Liverpool did do it, Ive also said it is embarrassing for the club, so don't know where you think the blinkers come from.

What I have said is that I believe that over 80% of transfers are started behind the selling clubs back.

Your the one banging on about biggest club in the world (don't see the relevance of that point), United having never done anything wrong, ever, ever, Amen.

Are yours red glasses Oakleys?
		
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I never said united don't do anything wrong, I actually said they wouldn't be stupid enough to meet the player before agreement with the club. There are many other ways of getting a deal done without blatant disregard for the rules resulting in a huge embarrassing climb down. But there you go

My comment was around your insistence to deflect blame by bringing up everyone else when it was your club caught and issuing statements. Do you genuinely not see it as embarrassing and very amateur? You're a big club, you must expect better...?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 8, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			I never said united don't do anything wrong, I actually said they wouldn't be stupid enough to meet the player before agreement with the club. There are many other ways of getting a deal done without blatant disregard for the rules resulting in a huge embarrassing climb down. But there you go

My comment was around your insistence to deflect blame by bringing up everyone else when it was your club caught and issuing statements.
		
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Mate, Joking apart, Stu and Pete are unfortunately the most honest red noses you're likely to meet, you've misjudged Pete :thup:

Now to go and wash my mouth out with domestos (other bleaches work just as well)


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## BristolMike (Jun 8, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Mate, Joking apart, Stu and Pete are unfortunately the most honest red noses you're likely to meet, you've misjudged Pete :thup:

Now to go and wash my mouth out with domestos (other bleaches work just as well)
		
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Hard saying nice things about Liverpool fans isn't it? Im still washing myself with bleach after being nice about one last night &#128514;


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 8, 2017)

If Lukaku knows already where he wants to go presumably that means he has already been tapped up. I'm not too stressed about that as long as we use that information to squeeze more out of the transfer fee and get him to forgo his "loyalty bonus" when we sell him. I think VVD has been the clumsy one here. We all know tapping up goes on but he boasted about it and at that point Southampton felt they need to act, understandably.

I don't think Costa leaving is as big a deal to Chelsea as some make out. At times he is a liability, he runs hot and cold. If Chelsea can get a big sum for him I think that will be business well done.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 8, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't think Costa leaving is as big a deal to Chelsea as some make out. At times he is a liability, he runs hot and cold. If Chelsea can get a big sum for him I think that will be business well done.
		
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Couldn't agree more. 
I'm just not sure about Lukaku coming in to replace him tho. 
I'd just go all out & get Harry Kane &#128513;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 8, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Solanke is linking up well with Lookman for England over in the kids World Cup in Korea :thup:
		
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And a great win today with both scoring the goals that's put England into the final on sunday against Venezuela.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 8, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			And a great win today with both scoring the goals that's put England into the final on sunday against Venezuela.
		
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But can they do it on a cold wet windy night at stoke?


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## Slime (Jun 9, 2017)

It looks like Alvaro Morata could be on his way to Old Trafford as long as both clubs can agree on a fee. 
It would appear that Morata is all in favour of that.


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## Fish (Jun 9, 2017)

Slime said:



			It looks like Alvaro Morata could be on his way to Old Trafford as long as both clubs can agree on a fee. 
It would appear that Morata is all in favour of that.
		
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And the big man gone?


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## Slime (Jun 10, 2017)

Fish said:



			And the big man gone?
		
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Sadly, that would seem to be the case ............... he was a massive presence in and around OT.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 10, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			No Phil it's not.

It's actually an embarrassment that a footballl club of our stature is so incompetent at doing the basic stuff correctly. 

You'll probably accuse me of being paranoid or stamping my feet.
		
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Yes agree with this .
Another really bad call by  Klopp if what is reported is true.
But nobody has shown the facts yet just what's in the press.
very poor from reds as he wanted to come here anyway all this was unnecessary.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 10, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes agree with this .
Another really bad call by  Klopp if what is reported is true.
But nobody has shown the facts yet just what's in the press.
very poor from reds as he wanted to come here anyway all this was unnecessary.
		
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The club apologised and Southampton made a complaint, do you honestly think that would of happened if it was "just what's in the press"

Slightly confusing that you agree with Stu then answer with doubt.


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## Slime (Jun 10, 2017)

Hey, we all know that Liverpool behaved in an underhand, shameful and totally unprofessional manner and were bang out of order.
We also know that probably every other team has also behaved in a similar manner.
So, before we all get a little bit self righteous, let's just be grateful our teams haven't always, if ever, been caught!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 10, 2017)

Slime said:



			Hey, we all know that Liverpool behaved in an underhand, shameful and totally unprofessional manner and were bang out of order.
We also know that probably every other team has also behaved in a similar manner.
So, before we all get a little bit self righteous, let's just be grateful our teams haven't always, if ever, been caught!
		
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No, It's LPool :rofl: :rofl:

Feel free to take the p!ss out of Everton when serving me my humble pie when we're caught


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## Tiger man (Jun 10, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			No, It's LPool :rofl: :rofl:

Feel free to take the p!ss out of Everton when serving me my humble pie when we're caught 

Click to expand...

That will never happen to our great club!!. .

we have to attemp to sign somebody first:lol:


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## sawtooth (Jun 10, 2017)

I hope we keep hold of this man, who still thinks he's crap?

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...rance-video-sweden-arsenal-football-world-cup


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 10, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I hope we keep hold of this man, who still thinks he's crap?

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...rance-video-sweden-arsenal-football-world-cup

Click to expand...

What a goal. 

Not so good from Lloris at the other end &#128563;


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 10, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I hope we keep hold of this man, who still thinks he's crap?

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...rance-video-sweden-arsenal-football-world-cup

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Even a blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally.

I don't think he's crap but imo he isn't a top class striker.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 10, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Even a blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally.

I don't think he's crap but imo he isn't a top class striker.
		
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On his day he can look very good,just not sure he's good enough to be the main goal scorer at a top team.


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## sawtooth (Jun 10, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			On his day he can look very good,just not sure he's good enough to be the main goal scorer at a top team.
		
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France 6th in the world &#128077;


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 10, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I hope we keep hold of this man, who still thinks he's crap?

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...rance-video-sweden-arsenal-football-world-cup

Click to expand...

Why did Wenger have him stuck on the bench most of the time if he is that good ?


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## Dan2501 (Jun 10, 2017)

Didn't he miss an absolute sitter minutes before that wondergoal?


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 10, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			France 6th in the world &#128077;
		
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Not sure what your point is here?


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## sawtooth (Jun 10, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not sure what your point is here?
		
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Well he starts for France and they are one of the world powers in football.

@LP I don't know why Wenger doesn't play him more.


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## Kellfire (Jun 10, 2017)

He only plays for France because they won't pick Benzema.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 10, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Well he starts for France and they are one of the world powers in football.

@LP I don't know why Wenger doesn't play him more.
		
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Sissoko also plays for France - does that make him a star ? 

The reason why Giroud doesn't play more is because he isn't as good as you believe


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## jp5 (Jun 10, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I hope we keep hold of this man, who still thinks he's crap?

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...rance-video-sweden-arsenal-football-world-cup

Click to expand...

Is capable of scoring a wonder goal, but went missing the season before last when we should have been in with a shout of the league - no goals in 15 PL games I think it was.

Have to say that the system at Arsenal typically doesn't suit his style.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 10, 2017)

Just a difference of opinion. 
If Sawtooth rates him so highly then fair enough. 
His goal record isn't too bad. 
Personally I wouldn't want him as my main striker.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 10, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The reason why Giroud doesn't play more is because he isn't as good as you believe
		
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In your opinion Phil &#128077;&#127995;


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## sawtooth (Jun 10, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sissoko also plays for France - does that make him a star ? 

The reason why Giroud doesn't play more is because he isn't as good as you believe
		
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I don't know much about Sissoko, has he scored 17 goals in 17 starts for France?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 10, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I don't know much about Sissoko, has he scored 17 goals in 17 starts for France?
		
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Very Good record for France - how many of those against the weaker opposition in Qualifying ? 

How has he done for Arsenal ? Surely if you want to keep it would be because of his record for Arsenal which isn't great


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## sawtooth (Jun 10, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Just a difference of opinion. 
If Sawtooth rates him so highly then fair enough. 
His goal record isn't too bad. 
Personally I wouldn't want him as my main striker.
		
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Maybe he's not best suited to the system at Arsenal or what Wenger is asking him to do. He may score more goals in other set ups.


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## ColchesterFC (Jun 10, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Personally I wouldn't want him as my main striker.
		
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I think this sums up my feelings about him. Think he's useful as a reserve striker and to come off the bench if things need changing but would prefer him to be a back up to the main striker.


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## Hobbit (Jun 10, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Maybe he's not best suited to the system at Arsenal or what Wenger is asking him to do. He may score more goals in other set ups.
		
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I think you've nailed it there. Giroud plays better with a decent player next to him up front. Arsenal tend to play on the break, with only one up front. Giroud isn't a holding player.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 10, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			The club apologised and Southampton made a complaint, do you honestly think that would of happened if it was "just what's in the press"

Slightly confusing that you agree with Stu then answer with doubt.
		
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i do agree with Stu but do you always believe what you read in the papers?.
Something has gone on but we are only speculating.
as I said it's all unnecessary.
Liverpool should bite the bullet and publish what went on but I am not holding my breath.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 10, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			i do agree with Stu but do you always believe what you read in the papers?.
Something has gone on but we are only speculating.
as I said it's all unnecessary.
Liverpool should bite the bullet and publish what went on but I am not holding my breath.
		
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Why should they publish what went on ? What's the point ? No one is naive to think we are the only club to approach players without asking the players club - would suspect comfortably that every club does it. The smart trick is getting away it which we haven't - have had to say sorry and it wouldn't surprise me to see VVD still going to Liverpool. I expect the only people to drag it out will be the Everton fans but then you only have to go back a couple of years to see they got caught and in fact were charged and fined.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 10, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why should they publish what went on ? What's the point ? No one is naive to think we are the only club to approach players without asking the players club - would suspect comfortably that every club does it. The smart trick is getting away it which we haven't - have had to say sorry and it wouldn't surprise me to see VVD still going to Liverpool. I expect the only people to drag it out will be the Everton fans but then you only have to go back a couple of years to see they got caught and in fact were charged and fined.
		
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But every club hasn't recently been caught doing it. 
Liverpool have&#128077;&#127995;
I can't believe they would be so stupid/arrogant to do it after only just getting a ban from signing academy players.


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## Tarkus1212 (Jun 10, 2017)

Southampton are reported to be looking into an illegal approach to Van Dijk from Chelsea with a view to reporting them to the FA.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 10, 2017)

Southampton need to stop telling tales &#128514;


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 10, 2017)

They are going to run out of teams that can afford him shortly. City will pick him up for Â£20m ðŸ˜.

If the player wants to go then the best thing now is to get the best price possible.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 10, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why should they publish what went on ? What's the point ? No one is naive to think we are the only club to approach players without asking the players club - would suspect comfortably that every club does it. The smart trick is getting away it which we haven't - have had to say sorry and it wouldn't surprise me to see VVD still going to Liverpool. I expect the only people to drag it out will be the Everton fans but then you only have to go back a couple of years to see they got caught and in fact were charged and fined.
		
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:rofl: :rofl: here fishy fishy fishy :rofl: :rofl:

Where's your good old scouse sense of humour?

You certainly are Ned Flanders :rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 10, 2017)




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## Tashyboy (Jun 10, 2017)

If Scotland lose today can the jocks ask for another Independant ref.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 10, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why should they publish what went on ? What's the point ? No one is naive to think we are the only club to approach players without asking the players club - would suspect comfortably that every club does it. The smart trick is getting away it which we haven't - have had to say sorry and it wouldn't surprise me to see VVD still going to Liverpool. I expect the only people to drag it out will be the Everton fans but then you only have to go back a couple of years to see they got caught and in fact were charged and fined.
		
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Am with you phil, it's like having a mod who is a carreer criminal:rofl:. None of us is whiter than white.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 10, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Am with you phil, it's like having a mod who is a carreer criminal:rofl:. None of us is whiter than white.
		
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Tashy  this is saint Phillip of Liverpool you are talking to.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 10, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes agree with this .
*Another really bad call by  Klopp if what is reported is true.*
But nobody has shown the facts yet just what's in the press.
very poor from reds as he wanted to come here anyway all this was unnecessary.
		
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What's Klopp done wrong?


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## Tashyboy (Jun 10, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			Tashy  this is saint Phillip of Liverpool you are talking to.
		
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All me pals on here are saints til 14th June when the new fixtures come out and Fish can start next seasons thread. :whoo:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 10, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Am with you phil, it's like having a mod who is a carreer criminal:rofl:. None of us is whiter than white.
		
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Mate, we all know he has a point, nobody has denied it, and if Utd get embarrassed you will laugh at them, it's called banter and local rivalry.

But when I'm answering someone directly and he joins the conversation on one side takes the morale high ground and has a sly dig at Everton, does he honestly not expect a response, it's playground behaviour.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 10, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why should they publish what went on ? What's the point ? No one is naive to think we are the only club to approach players without asking the players club - would suspect comfortably that every club does it. The smart trick is getting away it which we haven't - have had to say sorry and it wouldn't surprise me to see VVD still going to Liverpool. I expect the only people to drag it out will be the Everton fans but then you only have to go back a couple of years to see they got caught and in fact were charged and fined.
		
Click to expand...

For clarification on exactly what happened as opposed to speculation. 

I honestly couldn't give a damn what other clubs have or have not done, I'm more bothered that we've got clowns in charge of transfers and the managers top 2 targets haven't been landed  and are more than likely not to materialise. 

We've seen this before though haven't we with our owners?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 10, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			i do agree with Stu but do you always believe what you read in the papers?.
Something has gone on but we are only speculating.
as I said it's all unnecessary.
Liverpool should bite the bullet and publish what went on but I am not holding my breath.
		
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Everybody believed the press when they thought he was being signed, if it's lies the club could sue them.

Soton still saying they want the PL to investigate, so maybe the truth will come out if they do.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 10, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Mate, we all know he has a point, nobody has denied it, and if Utd get embarrassed you will laugh at them, it's called banter and local rivalry.

But when I'm answering someone directly and he joins the conversation on one side takes the morale high ground and has a sly dig at Everton, does he honestly not expect a response, it's playground behaviour.
		
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Oh I know what your saying and in all honesty I peed me pants laughing when Liverpool were caught out, especially as he was supposed to be coming to us.. Phils right, every one does do it, but to be so amateurish about it in this day and age. The funny thing is that the closed season Is still very much in its infancy and no doubt Mr Coutinho has had one or two phone calls. Be interesting to see what is said when the ball is on the other foot.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 10, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			All me pals on here are saints til 14th June when the new fixtures come out and Fish can start next seasons thread. :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

The "We're Off " thread should only be started on the 1st day if the season imo


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 10, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			For clarification on exactly what happened as opposed to speculation. 

I honestly couldn't give a damn what other clubs have or have not done, I'm more bothered that we've got clowns in charge of transfers and the managers top 2 targets haven't been landed  and are more than likely not to materialise. 

We've seen this before though haven't we with our owners?
		
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I don't expect to ever see full clarification on what happened - reports suggest it was down to Klopp speaking to player and discussing tactics for next year. 

Seems Chelsea might be the next club 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/metro....on-over-virgil-van-dijk-transfer-6700024/amp/


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 10, 2017)

Anyone else watching the football. England are so ponderous. We need some pace.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 10, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don't expect to ever see full clarification on what happened - reports suggest it was down to Klopp speaking to player and discussing tactics for next year. 

Seems Chelsea might be the next club 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/metro....on-over-virgil-van-dijk-transfer-6700024/amp/

Click to expand...

I know it won't happen but imo it should happen.

Whoever initiated for  the talks to happen from LFC need sacking. Gross misconduct in my book.

 I've never been a football agent but a player never goes anywhere job related without the agent knowing. 

Again I'm not interested in other clubs business, I'm not doubting tapping up happens.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 10, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			What's Klopp done wrong?
		
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He is ALLEGED to have approached the player first but as I said it's all speculation I have NOT seen any evidence.
If he did its poor if he didn't it's paper talk.
Really Southampton should disclose the nature of their complaint that way it might stop in the future but I dought it all clubs do it .


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## Fish (Jun 10, 2017)

Those 2 free kicks are just crazy &#128540;


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## Tashyboy (Jun 10, 2017)

Looks like there will be no Indy ref two. Poor decision for the second free kick. What a turn around.

How is scott brown still on the park.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 10, 2017)

2-2


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## ger147 (Jun 10, 2017)

Same old same old, Scotland never win...


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## Fish (Jun 10, 2017)

Kane breaks their hearts.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 10, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I know it won't happen but imo it should happen.

Whoever initiated for  the talks to happen from LFC need sacking. Gross misconduct in my book.

 I've never been a football agent but a player never goes anywhere job related without the agent knowing. 

Again I'm not interested in other clubs business, I'm not doubting tapping up happens.
		
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And if it's Klopp ?


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## sawtooth (Jun 10, 2017)

Fish said:



			Those 2 free kicks are just crazy &#128540;
		
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Not as crazy as putting Craig Gordon in goal. Such a pony keeper it's untrue.


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## Fish (Jun 10, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And if it's Klopp ?
		
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But was Klopp told the door was open, after all, if what I've read is true, a lot of dialogue has taken place between the player and Klopp for him to send videos to him regarding future tactics!

Communication from within Liverpool is a shambles if this all took place with no official acceptance to talk to the player being given. 

This isn't tapping up per se, thus is a breakdown in internal communication.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 10, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And if it's Klopp ?
		
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Replace him him with Arsene?&#128513;&#128077;


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## davemc1 (Jun 10, 2017)

Dunno what's less of a surprise, Lpool messing up another transfer or you lot still harping on over it &#128164;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 10, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			Dunno what's less of a surprise, Lpool messing up another transfer or you lot still harping on over it &#128164;
		
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Wake up soft lad, a red resurrected it :whoo:

We just piled on the bandwagon :rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 10, 2017)

With two jumping out of the chair arms raised YYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS's.
I have some consolation tonight that my English born and raised younger daughter is now a Scotland supporter.


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## davemc1 (Jun 10, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Wake up soft lad, a red resurrected it :whoo:

We just piled on the bandwagon :rofl:
		
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I said you lot, didn't discount anyone


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## Stuart_C (Jun 10, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And if it's Klopp ?
		
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Show him the door.

But you and I well know the Manager isn't in full control Of The transfers.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 10, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Show him the door.

But you and I well know the Manager isn't in full control Of The transfers.
		
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Even if it was Klopp, you still dont show him the door. You're being daft now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 10, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Show him the door.

But you and I well know the Manager isn't in full control Of The transfers.
		
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Show him the door ?! Really - is that not being a bit daft - what exactly does that achieve in the grand scheme of things


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## Stuart_C (Jun 10, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Even if it was Klopp, you still dont show him the door. You're being daft now.
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



			Show him the door ?! Really - is that not being a bit daft - what exactly does that achieve in the grand scheme of things
		
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Sound, we'll just keep people who make major feck ups in the transfer market Eh.

It's hypothetical though. Nevertheless whoever is incharge of this mess needs to be shown the door.

What do we do?


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 10, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Sound, we'll just keep people who make major feck ups in the transfer market Eh.

It's hypothetical though. Nevertheless whoever is incharge of this mess needs to be shown the door.
		
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Listen we dont fully KNOW yet, what we overstepped the mark on. Rumours of videos etc, but we dont know.

So do we go and get a saint of a manager.......ok, let me re-phrase that. Do we go and get a manager who plays by all the known rules of transfer dealings, but has no clout in attracting players? You'd be moaning about that then.

Learn from our experience, then go again.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 10, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Listen we dont fully KNOW yet, what we overstepped the mark on. Rumours of videos etc, but we dont know.

So do we go and get a saint of a manager.......ok, let me re-phrase that. Do we go and get a manager who plays by all the known rules of transfer dealings, but has no clout in attracting players? You'd be moaning about that then.

Learn from our experience, then go again.
		
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How about getting people in who know How to deal in transfers etc.  We know Klopp isn't in charge of deals. 

Missing out on #1+2 targets in this transfer window will have a massive impact on next season. We've seen this before.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 10, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			How about getting people in who know How to deal in transfers etc.  We know Klopp isn't in charge of deals. 

Missing out on #1+2 targets in this transfer window will have a massive impact on next season. We've seen this before.
		
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Yep ok get someone in - Who?

Kenyon? 

Hes not in charge of deals, but he does pick who he wants, someone elses job to go and get them.

Woodward does it for Man U, not Mourinho. Most top managers dont get involved in the negotiations now, when it comes to money, wages etc, possibly just in talking to the player.

I do take your point on the owners not backing the manager enough in the past, financially, but everyone wants silly money now, due to every club throughout Europe knowing how much money is in the prem, cos of the latest TV deal.


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## BristolMike (Jun 10, 2017)

United starting their transfer business early and not a hint of a complaint from the selling club.......&#128513;


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## Fish (Jun 10, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep ok get someone in - Who?

Kenyon? 

Hes not in charge of deals, but he does pick who he wants, someone elses job to go and get them.

Woodward does it for Man U, not Mourinho. *Most top managers dont get involved in the negotiations now, when it comes to money, wages etc, possibly just in talking to the player.*

I do take your point on the owners not backing the manager enough in the past, financially, but everyone wants silly money now, due to every club throughout Europe knowing how much money is in the prem, cos of the latest TV deal.
		
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Jose got given a few players, Torres included that he didn't ask for or want or suited our tactics and squad at the time, you're right, managers may get asked what they think but they don't have the overriding say, I don't think in the main!


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## BristolMike (Jun 10, 2017)

Fish said:



			Jose got given a few players, Torres included that he didn't ask for or want or suited our tactics and squad at the time, you're right, managers may get asked what they think but they don't have the overriding say, I don't think in the main!
		
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i think it depends on what they agreed when they signed. I know what you mean about Torres, you could add Shevchenko into the list of players He didn't want but was given. It happens at a lot of clubs


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 10, 2017)

Fish said:



			Jose got given a few players, Torres included that he didn't ask for or want or suited our tactics and squad at the time, you're right, managers may get asked what they think but they don't have the overriding say, I don't think in the main!
		
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I think Chelsea was an unusual case, because Roman wanted a more attractive playing style, which was strange as the first 2-3 years of mourinho seen a very attractive playing style.

The owners always have the final say, the manager makes a request, and normally the chief exec, or technical director will do the negotiations. Seems most English prem clubs do this nowadays.


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## BristolMike (Jun 10, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think Chelsea was an unusual case, because Roman wanted a more attractive playing style, which was strange as the first 2-3 years of mourinho seen a very attractive playing style.

The owners always have the final say, the manager makes a request, and normally the chief exec, or technical director will do the negotiations. Seems most English prem clubs do this nowadays.
		
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Most get a list of players and let the designated person make it happen. Sometimes the list starts with Kroos and you end up with fellaini.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 10, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			Most get a list of players and let the designated person make it happen. Sometimes the list starts with Kroos and you end up with fellaini.
		
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Fellaini suits your playing style nowadays, though.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 10, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep ok get someone in - Who?

Kenyon? 

Hes not in charge of deals, but he does pick who he wants, someone elses job to go and get them.

Woodward does it for Man U, not Mourinho. Most top managers dont get involved in the negotiations now, when it comes to money, wages etc, possibly just in talking to the player.

I do take your point on the owners not backing the manager enough in the past, financially, but everyone wants silly money now, due to every club throughout Europe knowing how much money is in the prem, cos of the latest TV deal.
		
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I don't know who exactly but looking at the current set up there's no experience in there. So whilst FSG employ who they do, they have to take the criticism.

I know the involvement of managers only takes place once the clubs have spoken with the club or agents. It's safe to say Klopp has been told he can speak with the player as opposed to Klopp initiating the contact with VVD.


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## jp5 (Jun 11, 2017)

Brilliant game this U20 World Cup final - has had everything, including great use of video referral!


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## Dan2501 (Jun 12, 2017)

Great win for the England Under-20 lads. Good to see a few Everton lads performing well, Calvert-Lewin and Lookman in particular look very promising. The new Liverpool lad Solanke looks a serious talent too, won player of the tournament. Could be a superb signing for Â£3m!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 12, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Great win for the England Under-20 lads. Good to see a few Everton lads performing well, Calvert-Lewin and Lookman in particular look very promising. The new Liverpool lad Solanke looks a serious talent too, won player of the tournament. Could be a superb signing for Â£3m!
		
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4 blues in the starting 11 and one on the bench. :thup:

Solanke's a Chelsea player until 01 July, they should get some credit for his development


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## Tashyboy (Jun 12, 2017)

jp5 said:



			Brilliant game this U20 World Cup final - has had everything, including great use of video referral!
		
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Well well jp5, your comment seems to have slipped under the radar seeing as one or two on here didn't want it in the first place.
incidently was it not used for the penalty decision which proved it was the correct decision. Furthermore, we ended up talking about a brilliant save and not another dodgy decision from the ref. Which was proved correct.


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## pbrown7582 (Jun 12, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Well well jp5, your comment seems to have slipped under the radar seeing as one or two on here didn't want it in the first place.
incidently was it not used for the penalty decision which proved it was the correct decision. Furthermore, we ended up talking about a brilliant save and not another dodgy decision from the ref. Which was proved correct.
		
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it was used for the penalty, which all and sundry thought was a wrong decision immediately but after 3 different angle reviews proved to be a very good call from the ref. 

also saw I used for a elbow and red card earlier in the tournament. It will come eventually to all top level matches.


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## Fish (Jun 12, 2017)

Lionel Messi has just been offered a new contract with Barcelona on a massive Â£450,000 a week ðŸ˜³

Which after tax is about Â£450,000 a week ðŸ˜œðŸ˜‰


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## pbrown7582 (Jun 13, 2017)

Fish said:



			Lionel Messi has just been offered a new contract with Barcelona on a massive Â£450,000 a week 

Which after tax is about Â£450,000 a week
		
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Whats this word TAX you mention???


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## Tashyboy (Jun 13, 2017)

Fish said:



			Lionel Messi has just been offered a new contract with Barcelona on a massive Â£450,000 a week ï˜³

Which after tax is about Â£450,000 a week ï˜œï˜‰
		
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Lovely photo of his bent knee doing the rounds on his holidays in Ibiza.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 13, 2017)

VAR - Video Assistant Referee being used tonight in the France v England friendly, probably being a friendly it won't be required.


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## Beezerk (Jun 13, 2017)

Â£30 mil Pickford to Everton *wolf whistle*


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## BristolMike (Jun 13, 2017)

Beezerk said:



			Â£30 mil Pickford to Everton *wolf whistle*
		
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That makes him the 3rd most expensive keeper ever. Only ones ahead are the legend that is Buffon and the bloke city have just bought.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 13, 2017)

That is not showing on BBC sport yet. Is it still rumour? Huge amount to pay for a young lad who has had one good season. I haven't seen enough to know if he is a good all rounder or a classic shot stopper given lots of practice last year, ie Mignolet when he was at Sunderland.

There are more tried and tested keepers out there for half that price.


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## Beezerk (Jun 13, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That is not showing on BBC sport yet. Is it still rumour?
		
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Dunno, some lad in the factory I'm working at in Kingston Park just told me they'd made a bid.


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## Beezerk (Jun 13, 2017)

Just been announced on the radio.
He's a crap golfer mind


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 13, 2017)

Â£18mil upfront with Â£12mil in add on clauses.
Subject to medical and player agreement.

Cue the "he's not worth it" from the red noses :whoo:

I'll wait until he's signs.


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## BristolMike (Jun 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Â£18mil upfront with Â£12mil in add on clauses.
Subject to medical and player agreement.

Cue the "he's not worth it" from the red noses :whoo:

I'll wait until he's signs.
		
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He had a great season last year, just need to hope he takes that step without any issues. If he does and pushes on he looks like a very good buy. Does seem a lot for a keeper though


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 13, 2017)

Beezerk said:



			Just been announced on the radio.
He's a crap golfer mind 

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I'm not holding that against him.

The figures Paul has quoted sound more reasonable, in this bonkers climate. Â£18m plus add ons related to games played, league position and trophies I presume. Less extreme.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 13, 2017)

Â£30mil sounds a bargain when you think Spurs paid more for Sissoko and Pickford's a better midfielder :rofl:


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## BristolMike (Jun 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Â£30mil sounds a bargain when you think Spurs paid more for Sissoko and Pickford's a better midfielder :rofl:
		
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Hes a better player than Fellaini too so I can't judge


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 13, 2017)

You can't say they weren't warned. Everyone north of the Tyne kept saying throughout last years Euro's that he had not played like that for the previous two seasons. Bizarre signing at the price they paid.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Â£18mil upfront with Â£12mil in add on clauses.
Subject to medical and player agreement.

Cue the "he's not worth it" from the red noses :whoo:

I'll wait until he's signs.
		
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30 million outright would be a hell of a punt.

18 million, with potential 12 million add ons is a decent negotiated deal. Not too bad if he doesn't realise his potential, if he does EFC and SAFC both reap the benefits.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 13, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			30 million outright would be a hell of a punt.

18 million, with potential 12 million add ons is a decent negotiated deal. Not too bad if he doesn't realise his potential, if he does EFC and SAFC both reap the benefits.
		
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I'll be pleased if it happens, but, why announce the clubs have agreed the fee and is subject to a medical and him agreeing personal terms, window don't open till 01 July and what's to stop another team stepping in.

We been amatuerish at transfers for quite a few years, agreed to quite a few that never came.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 13, 2017)

Sunderland after Derek McInnes.
Bad move for him IMO.
They would never give him time to build a team.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 13, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			Whats this word TAX you mention??? 

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Ronaldo is now being investigated about avoiding tax. Any footballers in Spain actually paying tax?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			30 million outright would be a hell of a punt.

18 million, with potential 12 million add ons is a decent negotiated deal. Not too bad if he doesn't realise his potential, if he does EFC and SAFC both reap the benefits.
		
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Â£18 mil is a good deal for him - looked a very good keeper but always hard to judge when playing with poor teams as the keeper is very busy allowing them to stand out - it's what Ming did.


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## pbrown7582 (Jun 13, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm not holding that against him.

The figures Paul has quoted sound more reasonable, in this bonkers climate. Â£18m plus add ons related to games played, league position and* trophies *I presume. Less extreme.
		
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THAT'LL SAVE YOU A FEW QUID THEN :rofl:


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 13, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			THAT'LL SAVE YOU A FEW QUID THEN :rofl:
		
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I'll set em up, you knock em in :thup:


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 13, 2017)

I emailed someone I deal with through work who is a Sunderland season ticket holder. He came back with a glowing reference for Pickford. Not just a shot stopper but commands his box and distributes well. His last comment was "I hope we have a sell on clause as he could go for Â£50m in the future".


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## Kellfire (Jun 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I'll be pleased if it happens, but, why announce the clubs have agreed the fee and is subject to a medical and him agreeing personal terms, window don't open till 01 July and what's to stop another team stepping in.

We been amatuerish at transfers for quite a few years, agreed to quite a few that never came.
		
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Standard practice really, allows for a bidding war... The selling club won't want to only give the first suitor their business.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 13, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			Standard practice really, allows for a bidding war... The selling club won't want to only give the first suitor their business.
		
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I'm not worried about Sunderland changing their mind, it's the player.

I honestly think SLand would honour the agreement, easier to turn the player's head.


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## davemc1 (Jun 13, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			THAT'LL SAVE YOU A FEW QUID THEN :rofl:
		
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You can't say that! Paul will be accusing you of being obsessed soon enough...


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## pbrown7582 (Jun 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I'm not worried about Sunderland changing their mind, it's the player.

I honestly think SLand would honour the agreement, easier to turn the player's head.
		
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That's down to the players agent, who is likely to counter bid at those levels though? ......... Arsenal to take over from Cech?  Chelsea Spurs City United are all settled assume Liverpool are too with a new long term contract for Mignolet.
In comparison Napoli looking to replace Reina for Â£15m with Leno from Leverkusen.


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## Beezerk (Jun 13, 2017)

pbrown7582 said:



			That's down to the players agent, who is likely to counter bid at those levels though?
		
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True, Jordan's words were something like "I don't have any say at all if I get sold or not and where I'll eventually end up".
He doesn't want to leave Sunderland at all but it's all out of his hands, pardon the pun.


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## Slime (Jun 13, 2017)

BristolMike said:



			Hes a better player than Fellaini too so I can't judge
		
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Hey, I'm a better player than Fellaini!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 13, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			You can't say that! Paul will be accusing you of being obsessed soon enough...
		
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I think you'll find it's only you reds that have had a sense of humour failure lately. :whoo:


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 13, 2017)

Good to see Southgate ringing the changes against a good side. Surely far better than the tried and usual format of the regular team for the first half most England managers use


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## Slime (Jun 13, 2017)

Good to see Phil Jones playing well.


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## sawtooth (Jun 13, 2017)

Sterling and Stones are the weak links, it would be good to see those replaced soon.


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## Beezerk (Jun 13, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Sterling and Stones are the weak links, it would be good to see those replaced soon.
		
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You missed Cahill off the list, awful defender.
Sterling looks like he's gonna mess it up every time he gets the ball, it's like playing with 10 men when he's on the field. I sound like a broken record here, said the same last year, why do England managers not see it as well?


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## pbrown7582 (Jun 13, 2017)

VAR :rofl:


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 13, 2017)

Beezerk said:



			You missed Cahill off the list, awful defender.
Sterling looks like he's gonna mess it up every time he gets the ball, it's like playing with 10 men when he's on the field. I sound like a broken record here, said the same last year, why do England managers not see it as well?
		
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Totally agree. Looks a very average international player who doesn't seem to be able to retain a ball and his distribution to others is crap


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2017)

Think video refs got penalty right but it was more accidental than deliberate foul.
Didnt think it was a red card.


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## Beezerk (Jun 13, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Didnt think it was a red card.
		
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Should I start a thread in the Rules section asking why it was a pen? 
They must have deemed it a goal scoring opportunity, thought the keeper possibly had it covered myself.


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## sawtooth (Jun 13, 2017)

Stones is embarrassing.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2017)

Beezerk said:



			Should I start a thread in the Rules section asking why it was a pen? 
They must have deemed it a goal scoring opportunity, thought the keeper possibly had it covered myself.
		
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Could understand it in a proper match , but in a friendly ?
it was a goal scoring op but think it was accidental bit harsh on the lad.
Deffo a pen but red card?
midfield is embarrassing


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## Tashyboy (Jun 13, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Stones is embarrassing.
		
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Both stones and Cahill have been poor. Not been helped one bit by Dier who has had a shocker. Not sure if I could pick a motm. Maybe Kane.


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## Slime (Jun 13, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Both stones and Cahill have been poor. Not been helped one bit by Dier who has had a shocker. Not sure if I could pick a motm. Maybe Kane.
		
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I think the Ox has had a mare too, and Sterling to a lesser degree.
MOTM would be Kane, Jones or, for them, Pogba.
Cahill has been embarrassing ................ kneeling down when an opponent shoots, what's that all about. He should have charged at the bloke.


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## Beezerk (Jun 13, 2017)

Slime said:



			I think the Ox has had a mare too.
		
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Ox has been proven to be a sub standard international player, I don't know why they've brought him back into the fold.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 13, 2017)

Southgate looks absolutely out of his depth on the sideline, he just doesn't inspire or have any aura about him.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Southgate looks absolutely out of his depth on the sideline, he just doesn't inspire or have any aura about him.
		
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Agree with this tactics all wrong.
Centre midfield completely overrun but he has not changed anything.
Playing ten men you must make them run round but trying to play killer balls when a easy ball is on cost them the game.
I also never cease to be disappointed watching England.
To many not trying hard enough just no fight.


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## sawtooth (Jun 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Southgate looks absolutely out of his depth on the sideline, he just doesn't inspire or have any aura about him.
		
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Seriously I would have Allardyce back tomorrow in a heartbeat. 

There's no way we would have conceded that first goal when Trippier was left marking 2 at the far post with 5 white shirts in the middle and still losing out to Giroud.

And there second goal they were lining up to score as well. 

Defensively all over the place and with no bite going forward either. Seriously I would prefer Allardyce to this shower.

I can see Southgate playing all the so called big money stars , even out of position and doing pants, where Allardyce would I believe put a team together. That's the difference.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 13, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Agree with this tactics all wrong.
Centre midfield completely overrun but he has not changed anything.
Playing ten men you must make them run round but trying to play killer balls when a easy ball is on cost them the game.
I also never cease to be disappointed watching England.
To many not trying hard enough just no fight.
		
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To be honest I don't take too much notice of friendlies, but everytime the camera was on him, he just seemed to look awkward and as if he shouldn't be there, no presence at all.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 13, 2017)

Sterling does some decent stuff, gets in good positions and then has the look of someone who realises they have lumped on themselves not scoring and slows up to allow themselves to be tackled / blasts over. Very little end product and so a bit pointless.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			To be honest I don't take too much notice of friendlies, but everytime the camera was on him, he just seemed to look awkward and as if he shouldn't be there, no presence at all.
		
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Felt this when he was given the job just part of the establishment in the FA.
Once Pogba was bossing the game he should have put someone to man mark him and upset their flow.
If OX wants to play Centre Mid he better up his game as that was not good enough.
Dire lived up to his name!
Sterling chicken with no head.
Best team won and it looked like we had ten men and it could have been more!
absolute S###E.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 13, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			Felt this when he was given the job just part of the establishment in the FA.
Once Pogba was bossing the game he should have put someone to man mark him and upset their flow.
If OX wants to play Centre Mid he better up his game as that was not good enough.
Dire lived up to his name!
Sterling chicken with no head.
Best team won and it looked like we had ten men and it could have been more!
absolute S###E.
		
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No issue with him trying things so long as he learns, not seeing him make any impact yet on the squad or the way we play, early days though so still got my backing, just.........&#128515;


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## PhilTheFragger (Jun 14, 2017)

Thread closed and replaced with the 2017-18 season thread


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