# GM Top 100 courses



## richart (Nov 24, 2014)

Good to see West Hill has moved up the rankings, and Parkstone has got in the top 100. No place for Broadstone though the best course in Dorset.

By next April I will have played 33 of the courses, so need to get some more booked in.

Trumps new course straight in at 14.oo:


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## pokerjoke (Nov 24, 2014)

I thought it was quite interesting looking at the costs.
It looks like some of these top courses can be played for Â£50.
Was watching a Mark crossfield vlog today where they played Turnbery-Alisa and Tunbery
Kintyre with overnight stay and extras for Â£180.


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## Fish (Nov 24, 2014)

My favourite course Moortown is up 8 places to 60th and should be higher IMO


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## User20205 (Nov 24, 2014)

I tried to look, but its not very tablet friendly. It's all pretty subjective anyway.

where does liphook figure?


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 24, 2014)

Fish said:



			My favourite course Moortown is up 8 places to 60th and should be higher IMO
		
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I liked the description of the 10th Gibraltar, the signature hole.  Not sure if I mentioned that is where I shot my one and only hole in 1   Easy hole......


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## richart (Nov 24, 2014)

therod said:



			I tried to look, but its not very tablet friendly. It's all pretty subjective anyway.

where does liphook figure?
		
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 Gone up one to 70. Can't get many points for 'experience'. I have never had a decent welcome, though they have locked up the Clubhouse at 7.00 in the middle of summer, with my gear inside.

Royal North Devon up three places.:thup:


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## User20205 (Nov 24, 2014)

richart said:



			Gone up one to 70. Can't get many points for 'experience'. I have never had a decent welcome, though they have locked up the Clubhouse at 7.00 in the middle of summer, with my gear inside.

Royal North Devon up three places.:thup:
		
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This maybe a silly question bearing in mind your techno phobia but can you post the link?

All I can get is the home page with the 'highlights'

Re the welcome at liphook, they were very pleasant when you weren't there. I'm sure there's no connection

I like RND, especially the old man smell in the changing rooms, that and royal porthcawl are my favourite clubhouses.

Edit, found it now, your blushes are spared


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## richart (Nov 24, 2014)

therod said:



			This maybe a silly question bearing in mind your techno phobia but can you post the link?

All I can get is the home page with the 'highlights'

Re the welcome at liphook, they were very pleasant when you weren't there. I'm sure there's no connection

I like RND, especially the old man smell in the changing rooms, that and royal porthcawl are my favourite clubhouses.
		
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 Send you a link.:rofl:

Mariners have dropped Liphook for next year for being stuffy, so not just me.:ears: Going to Effingham instead, which I haven't played, but have heard good things.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2014)

I can't see the full list also


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## richart (Nov 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I can't see the full list also 

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 No I can't send you a link either.:rofl:


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## Val (Nov 24, 2014)

Top 100 release and a thread up already. I'll start the following,

Wallasey should be in the top 10
Machrihanish should be in the top 10
Royal Aberdeen should be in the top 5
Gleneagles PGA shouldn't feature

I'm off for popcorn :rofl:


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## richart (Nov 24, 2014)

therod said:



			This maybe a silly question bearing in mind your techno phobia but can you post the link?

All I can get is the home page with the 'highlights'

Re the welcome at liphook, they were very pleasant when you weren't there. I'm sure there's no connection

I like RND, especially the old man smell in the changing rooms, that and royal porthcawl are my favourite clubhouses.

Edit, found it now, your blushes are spared
		
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 Too late.


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## richart (Nov 24, 2014)

Val said:



			Top 100 release and a thread up already.
		
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 Sorry, I am sure there will be a thread on best waterproofs along soon.:thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2014)

therod said:



			This maybe a silly question bearing in mind your techno phobia but can you post the link?

All I can get is the home page with the 'highlights'

Re the welcome at liphook, they were very pleasant when you weren't there. I'm sure there's no connection

I like RND, especially the old man smell in the changing rooms, that and royal porthcawl are my favourite clubhouses.

Edit, found it now, your blushes are spared
		
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Post the link please mate :thup:


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## Foxholer (Nov 24, 2014)

http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/courses/top-100-courses/top-100-golf-courses-60876

Played 39 of them, though 1 (Renaissance) was before it was Open/Ready - a reduction from previous year I think.was


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 24, 2014)

Some interesting changes. Wentworth West down 7 (rightly imo). Surprised Berkshire Red down 3 but the Blue up a similar mark. The Grove down too and although I've always enjoyed my time there and the set up, I've never been convinced it's a top 100 course


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2014)

Think trumps name spoils that list 

Seeing Turnberry name change just looks wrong


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 24, 2014)

So the top 5 unchanged. Is that right? Should St Andrews old really be #3?


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## Foxholer (Nov 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Think trumps name spoils that list 

Seeing Turnberry name change just looks wrong
		
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A touch prejudiced perhaps - though understandable. I thought I saw somewhere that Turnberry was 'losing' the 'Trump' part, maybe just for The Open? :thup:

Anyone who invests that amount of dosh (doesn't matter if it's his own or other investors) is pretty much entitled to stick their name onto the title somehow - and that brand is a big part of the marketing!


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## NST (Nov 24, 2014)

Managed 4 of them in my short career, hope to tick off another 10 next year. I thought Swinley Forest was out of this world and it ranks 38!


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## Region3 (Nov 24, 2014)

Only 11.5 for me, so obviously not qualified to comment


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## pbrown7582 (Nov 24, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			So the top 5 unchanged. Is that right? Should St Andrews old really be #3?
		
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The rankings arent purely about the course. Yes maybe there are some holes that arent as complete as other courses but how people would have on there bucketblist? And also when a pro can name one of the so called bland easy holes his favourite (#9)  it really does divide opinion.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 24, 2014)

pbrown7582 said:



			The rankings arent purely about the course. Yes maybe there are some holes that arent as complete as other courses but how people would have on there bucketblist? And also when a pro can name one of the so called bland easy holes his favourite (#9)  it really does divide opinion.
		
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I see what you are saying. I loved the whole aura of the place and there was a real air of anticipation and nerves on the first tee despite how wide it is. I enjoyed it and didn't really feel there were too many weak holes, certainly for my standard


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 24, 2014)

59 for me, quite a few in there that i would strongly disagree with.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 24, 2014)

drive4show said:



			59 for me, quite a few in there that i would strongly disagree with.
		
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In terms of their position in the chart or their inclusion at all?


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## NST (Nov 24, 2014)

drive4show said:



			59 for me, quite a few in there that i would strongly disagree with.
		
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Where would you have Hayling in relation?


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## Val (Nov 24, 2014)

It's all very subjective and in the eye of the player but of those I've played id rank in order as follows

Muirfield
Western Gailes
Royal Aberdeen
Royal Dornoch
Royal Lytham
Royal Liverpool
Machrihanish
Castle Stuart
Kingsbarns
Hillside
Siloth on Solway
Machrihanish Dunes
West Lancs
Gleneagles Kings
Gleneagles Queens
Belfry Brabazon
Gleneagles PGA

Im obviously very biased but can't believe Wallasey doesn't make the top 100 and interested to hear from those that decide why they thought it didn't. Similarly Little Aston especially given it help Open Qualifying this year.

Can't believe Royal Aberdeen doesn't scrape into the top 10 and can only assume the practice facilities hold it back, similarly Western Gailes at 53


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## patricks148 (Nov 24, 2014)

Val said:



			It's all very subjective and in the eye of the player but of those I've played id rank in order as follows

Muirfield
Western Gailes
Royal Aberdeen
Royal Dornoch
Royal Lytham
Royal Liverpool
Machrihanish
Castle Stuart
Kingsbarns
Hillside
Siloth on Solway
Machrihanish Dunes
West Lancs
Gleneagles Kings
Gleneagles Queens
Belfry Brabazon
Gleneagles PGA

Im obviously very biased but can't believe Wallasey doesn't make the top 100 and interested to hear from those that decide why they thought it didn't. Similarly Little Aston especially given it help Open Qualifying this year.

Can't believe Royal Aberdeen doesn't scrape into the top 10 and can only assume the practice facilities hold it back, similarly Western Gailes at 53
		
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I can never work out why western is so low and that Machrihanish is even in the top 100...


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 24, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			In terms of their position in the chart or their inclusion at all?
		
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Both Homer!

Trevose, Royal St Davids and The Grove are 3 that wouldn't be in there and several are wrongly positioned. 

Muirfield certainly shouldn't be #1, it isn't even close to RCD. Broadstone is a better test of golf than Parkstone although not a better club. Delighted to see my favourite English course (St Enodoc) has moved up as well.


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## Val (Nov 24, 2014)

patricks148 said:



			I can never work out why western is so low and that Machrihanish is even in the top 100...
		
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Why are you so sore on Mach, its a quality course. For me the only real bad hole is 18, it's a crap finish for such a course.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 24, 2014)

NST said:



			Where would you have Hayling in relation?
		
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I think Hayling is rightly placed in the '2nd 100' list which came out last time. It's got potential to move up if there was some serious bunker redesign work done.


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## NWJocko (Nov 24, 2014)

Played 14 of them.

Haven't read the reasoning but Nairn at 34 seems high to me, lovely course but not that high IMO.

Especially not above Silloth.

Looking at that list I need to get across to Ireland to play some of those courses at some point.


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## NorfolkShaun (Nov 24, 2014)

Blimey some of you guys have played quite a few of these, playing my first next year in Woodhall Spa


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Both Homer!

Trevose, Royal St Davids and The Grove are 3 that wouldn't be in there and several are wrongly positioned. 

Muirfield certainly shouldn't be #1, it isn't even close to RCD. Broadstone is a better test of golf than Parkstone although not a better club. Delighted to see my favourite English course (St Enodoc) has moved up as well.
		
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Would have both Cromer and Sheringham as better than Grove and Trevose


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would have both Cromer and Sheringham as better than Grove and Trevose
		
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All 4 are average


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 24, 2014)

Val said:



			Top 100 release and a thread up already. I'll start the following,

Wallasey should be in the top 10
Machrihanish should be in the top 10
Royal Aberdeen should be in the top 5
Gleneagles PGA shouldn't feature

I'm off for popcorn :rofl:
		
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You can tell you've played with C-raw recently.......delivered in the same inimitable style.


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## richart (Nov 24, 2014)

NorfolkShaun said:



			Blimey some of you guys have played quite a few of these, playing my first next year in Woodhall Spa
		
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 Being old helps.


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## NorfolkShaun (Nov 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would have both Cromer and Sheringham as better than Grove and Trevose
		
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Looking to play Sherringham soon gets rave reviews round here


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 24, 2014)

Not sure I'd describe the Grove as average, especially the whole golfing set up they have there, and cracking food at The Stables. The course itself leaves a little to be desired and I never got the feeling I was playing anywhere "significant" especially compared to the likes of Berkshire, Swinley (even though its down) West Hill. St Andrews etc


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2014)

drive4show said:



			All 4 are average  

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That's why these lists are all subjective 

Sheringham for me is a stunning course. Certainly wouldn't call it average


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 24, 2014)

The Grove isn't any better than any of the many other similar style American courses of the last 20 years or so (The Oxfordshire, East Sussex, Belfry etc) apart from the fact it charges a ridiculous green fee. I sometimes wonder how carried away people get by the amount a place charges, assuming it must be good if it is expensive.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2014)

NorfolkShaun said:



			Looking to play Sherringham soon gets rave reviews round here
		
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You will not be let down :thup:


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## richart (Nov 24, 2014)

Two courses not in the list, but which must be close are Coombe Hill, and Tandridge. Both Clubs have a special feel about them.

Surprised Burnham and Berrow ranks above Saunton East, and that Worplesdon is ranked so high. Heard that it was not in good condition this year, and in my opinion not the best of the 3 W's.

Ladybank is nice, but is not as good as Broadstone.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That's why these lists are all subjective 

Sheringham for me is a stunning course. Certainly wouldn't call it average
		
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It's in a fantastic location but certainly not stunning. The 5th is the only truly memorable hole.


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## NorfolkShaun (Nov 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You will not be let down :thup:
		
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Hoping to play it just before Christmas, should be quite nice as the train will be running too for the santa specials, in fact if our place is closed this weekend we may head up.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 24, 2014)

NorfolkShaun said:



			Hoping to play it just before Christmas, should be quite nice as the train will be running too for the santa specials, in fact if our place is closed this weekend we may head up.
		
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Brancaster or Hunstanton are much better if you want alternatives. The clubhouse at Brancaster is like stepping back in time, it's fantastic  :thup:


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## NorfolkShaun (Nov 24, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Brancaster or Hunstanton are much better if you want alternatives. The clubhouse at Brancaster is like stepping back in time, it's fantastic  :thup:
		
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Really fancy Brancaster, but they only now allow foresomes or two balls and there would be three of us. One day I will give Brancaster a go but it is just a little further from home and have a real urge to play Sherringham first.

Brancaster also note on website that you can only access the club during low tide, have an excuse to get stuck there....


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2014)

NorfolkShaun said:



			Really fancy Brancaster, but they only now allow foresomes or two balls and there would be three of us. One day I will give Brancaster a go but it is just a little further from home and have a real urge to play Sherringham first
		
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Kings Lynn is pretty good as well :thup:


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 24, 2014)

richart said:



			Two courses not in the list, but which must be close are Coombe Hill, and Tandridge. Both Clubs have a special feel about them.

.
		
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Haven't they featured before. Sure Coombe Hill must have


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## PNWokingham (Nov 24, 2014)

Played 35!
Wentworth West continues to move down - to me it has a few more paces to fall over coming years.
I think West Hill should be higher - it is a better course than Worplesdon and Woking IMHO.
Worplesdon is plain too high at 66 - nearer 100 sounds fairer
Sunningdale New rightly sits above the Old.
Of newer courses, Quenwood (not ranked) is better than The Wisley - and, despite not having played them, I suspect it would beat The Grove and The Belfry
Is the Belfry good enough for 80?
Burnham is very nice but no way better than Saunton East or Formby
No Broadstone, even with the stunning changes - I think it is a better course than, for example, Worplesdon - and easily good enough for Top 80
Is St George's Hill a bit high at 24 - Berkshire Red is probably (definitely) a better course - the stretch from 3-7 on SGH is not strong enough for such a lofty position


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## stevek1969 (Nov 24, 2014)

patricks148 said:



			I can never work out why western is so low and that Machrihanish is even in the top 100...
		
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Love Machrihanish,the remoteness of it,hitting blind shots into the unknown, as Val says the 18th is a poor finishing hole which really doesn't compare to the rest of the course. Its the drive to get there that kills me.


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 24, 2014)

NorfolkShaun said:



			Looking to play Sherringham soon gets rave reviews round here
		
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I played 36 holes there one day this summer and loved it.  Unfortunately my golf was not up to the standard of the course, but it's really enjoyable.  Also it's good value as I know this list is not based on value, but you see the price of most of the top 20 and think 'how much?'.  I'm sure 36 holes cost me 60 quid in the middle of summer at Sherringham.


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## richart (Nov 24, 2014)

PNWokingham said:




Played 35!
Wentworth West continues to move down - to me it has a few more paces to fall over coming years.
I think West Hill should be higher - it is a better course than Worplesdon and Woking IMHO.
Worplesdon is plain too high at 66 - nearer 100 sounds fairer
Sunningdale New rightly sits above the Old.
Of newer courses, Quenwood (not ranked) is better than The Wisley - and, despite not having played them, I suspect it would beat The Grove and The Belfry
Is the Belfry good enough for 80?
Burnham is very nice but no way better than Saunton East or Formby
No Broadstone, even with the stunning changes - I think it is a better course than, for example, Worplesdon - and easily good enough for Top 80
Is St George's Hill a bit high at 24 - Berkshire Red is probably (definitely) a better course - the stretch from 3-7 on SGH is not strong enough for such a lofty position


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Unbelievable, I actually agree with you on nearly every point . You are started to get old man views my old mate.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 24, 2014)

Looking at the list that never made the 100, it's amazing how top tracks like Beau Desert, Wallasey didn't make it.


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## richart (Nov 24, 2014)

I have had a look at the map of the top 100 courses. Very few near me I haven't played, but a trip to the Southport area could knock a quite a few off my to play list.

If we get some good weather next February/ March I will definitely look to go and play Royal St Georges. Â£80 winter rate looks a bargain compared to some of the green fees quoted in GM


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## PNWokingham (Nov 24, 2014)

richart said:



			Unbelievable, I actually agree with you on nearly every point . You are started to get old man views my old mate.

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I am now very worried - normal abuse and arguments will resume on Sunday!

Good point Stu - forgot to mention Beau Desert - I definitely prefer it than several in the list - and a few months with a chainsaw and some bunker redesigns could easily push this to top 70


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2014)

richart said:



			I have had a look at the map of the top 100 courses. Very few near me I haven't played, but a trip to the Southport area could knock a quite a few off my to play list.

If we get some good weather next February/ March I will definitely look to go and play Royal St Georges. Â£80 winter rate looks a bargain compared to some of the green fees quoted in GM
		
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Hopefully tick two more of the list next year in Southport :thup:

Will be happy to join you at RSG :thup:


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 24, 2014)

richart said:



			I have had a look at the map of the top 100 courses. Very few near me I haven't played, but a trip to the Southport area could knock a quite a few off my to play list.

If we get some good weather next February/ March I will definitely look to go and play Royal St Georges. Â£80 winter rate looks a bargain compared to some of the green fees quoted in GM
		
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Andy and I did that in January and knocked off 3 of them on winter rates, might go back again after New Year to play a few more :thup:


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## hovis (Nov 24, 2014)

PNWokingham said:



			I am now very worried - normal abuse and arguments will resume on Sunday!

Good point Stu - forgot to mention Beau Desert - I definitely prefer it than several in the list - and a few months with a chainsaw and some bunker redesigns could easily push this to top 70
		
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Beau desert is slipping in the way of quality and presentation.  The course this year was WAY down on its usual.  The bunkers are diabolical and the rough goes weeks inbetween Cutts.   still don't get board of playing it though


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## Foxholer (Nov 24, 2014)

richart said:





PNWokingham said:




Played 35!
Wentworth West continues to move down - to me it has a few more paces to fall over coming years.
I think West Hill should be higher - it is a better course than Worplesdon and Woking IMHO.
Worplesdon is plain too high at 66 - nearer 100 sounds fairer
Sunningdale New rightly sits above the Old.
Of newer courses, Quenwood (not ranked) is better than The Wisley - and, despite not having played them, I suspect it would beat The Grove and The Belfry
Is the Belfry good enough for 80?
Burnham is very nice but no way better than Saunton East or Formby
No Broadstone, even with the stunning changes - I think it is a better course than, for example, Worplesdon - and easily good enough for Top 80
Is St George's Hill a bit high at 24 - Berkshire Red is probably (definitely) a better course - the stretch from 3-7 on SGH is not strong enough for such a lofty position


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Unbelievable, I actually agree with you on nearly every point . You are started to get old man views my old mate.

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Most of us only rate the Course! The GM list rates a few other things as well, albeit with weightings. So the likes of Wentworth, Grove and The Open courses are going to be boosted somewhat - think 'the experience of The Old Course!'.

That said, I rate St Georges Hill higher than Berkshire Red (just). Likewise, I prefer Sunningdale Old over New, maybe just because of the view from the 10th Tee (though the one from 6th Tee on New ain't bad!) All a joy to play!


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## SAPCOR1 (Nov 25, 2014)

stevek1969 said:



			Love Machrihanish,the remoteness of it,hitting blind shots into the unknown, as Val says the 18th is a poor finishing hole which really doesn't compare to the rest of the course. Its the drive to get there that kills me.
		
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You can always sweep through the heather, like deer in the glen.......

But of an ordeal getting there but the scenery is great and the trips s worth it if you add a game at the Dunes as well


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## Captainron (Nov 25, 2014)

Managed to play 22 so far. 

Dear god! What is The Brabazon doing on that list???? 

Several I would disagree with as many on here have already said.


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## patricks148 (Nov 25, 2014)

Val said:



			Why are you so sore on Mach, its a quality course. For me the only real bad hole is 18, it's a crap finish for such a course.
		
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I just found it rather bland the two times i've played it, conditions wasn't good either time, though once was on a craw outing and it was march. but last time was middle of the summer.


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## Val (Nov 25, 2014)

patricks148 said:



			I just found it rather bland the two times i've played it, conditions wasn't good either time, though once was on a craw outing and it was march. but last time was middle of the summer.
		
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I didnt like it at all first time i played it but having played it a couple of times since it's really grown on me, like most quality links do.


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## patricks148 (Nov 25, 2014)

Val said:



			I didnt like it at all first time i played it but having played it a couple of times since it's really grown on me, like most quality links do.
		
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TBH Martin, it was only because i was on my way to Islay for work and took the clubs. It was in poor condition for that time of year and as its so far away unless i had to actually go to Campbeltown (which is unlikely) i just wouldn't bother, far better courses closer. I could get to western and play a round just in the time it would take to get to Machrihanish.


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## Jimaroid (Nov 25, 2014)

The entry for St Andrews New uses a picture of the 2nd hole of St Andrews Jubilee, considering the Jubilee doesn't feature in the top 100 at all and many think it's the better course it's a nicely ironic mistake.


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## Val (Nov 25, 2014)

patricks148 said:



			TBH Martin, it was only because i was on my way to Islay for work and took the clubs. It was in poor condition for that time of year and as its so far away unless i had to actually go to Campbeltown (which is unlikely) i just wouldn't bother, far better courses closer. I could get to western and play a round just in the time it would take to get to Machrihanish.
		
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I'd never tire of playing Western Gailes, fantastic golf course.


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## Jake O'Reilly (Nov 25, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Most of us only rate the Course! The GM list rates a few other things as well, albeit with weightings. So the likes of Wentworth, Grove and The Open courses are going to be boosted somewhat - think 'the experience of The Old Course!'.
		
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Just to add to this, our rankings are based on the below, which is why some course like The Belfry and The Grove have featured higher than the course alone may suggest in some of your opinions. You can read about all the criteria in depth, and the panelists involved, in our new issue that goes on sale Thursday:

*Quality of test & design (35/100)*
Mix of holes, character, does it reward good golf etc
*
Condition & presentation (30/100)
*Tees, greens, different cuts of rough, signage, bunker quality etc

*Visual appeal (15/100)
*Memorable views, surrounding land, in keeping with its environment etc

*Facilities (10/100)
*Clubhouse, practice ground, changing rooms, website info etc

*Experience (10/100)
*Welcome, sense of occasion, value for money, do you want to return etc


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## Smiffy (Nov 25, 2014)

Just checked and I've played 24 of 'em


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## Foxholer (Nov 25, 2014)

Jake O'Reilly said:



			Just to add to this, our rankings are based on the below, which is why some course like The Belfry and The Grove have featured higher than the course alone may suggest in some of your opinions. You can read about all the criteria in depth, and the panelists involved, in our new issue that goes on sale Thursday:

*Quality of test & design (35/100)*
Mix of holes, character, does it reward good golf etc
*
Condition & presentation (30/100)
*Tees, greens, different cuts of rough, signage, bunker quality etc

*Visual appeal (15/100)
*Memorable views, surrounding land, in keeping with its environment etc

*Facilities (10/100)
*Clubhouse, practice ground, changing rooms, website info etc

*Experience (10/100)
*Welcome, sense of occasion, value for money, do you want to return etc
		
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Thanks Jake.

I suspect that in most cases, the weighting here would be more like 60;25;5;5;5! Although there could well be a 'negative aspects' list/scale too!

As others have posted, all pretty subjective, but seems a reasonable list. And such a tough job checking them out too!


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## Jake O'Reilly (Nov 25, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			As others have posted, all pretty subjective, but seems a reasonable list. And such a tough job checking them out too! 

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We regularly weep for poor Jezz who has played all 100, and over 650 courses in total!


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 25, 2014)

I'm not sure if GM did this before but a best value top 100 would be very useful.  The list produced is very good to look at, but in a way we all kind of know which courses will be at the top of the list.  And when I looked at the prices for most of the top ones, if you were paying the advertised green fees, they did seem out of reach for a lot of golfers apart from probably a one off special occasion.  But a 'best value' list would be very good and arguably something that would be useful to the more golfers more of the time.


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## Jake O'Reilly (Nov 25, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			I'm not sure if GM did this before but a best value top 100 would be very useful.  The list produced is very good to look at, but in a way we all kind of know which courses will be at the top of the list.
		
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'Value' is so very subjective, and doing a best value 100 would also entail our assessors visiting 700+ courses to be thorough! A better approach would perhaps be 'Top 100 under Â£XX', which I'll be sure to mention in our next GM staff meeting.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 25, 2014)

Jake O'Reilly said:



			Just to add to this, our rankings are based on the below, which is why some course like The Belfry and The Grove have featured higher than the course alone may suggest in some of your opinions. You can read about all the criteria in depth, and the panelists involved, in our new issue that goes on sale Thursday:

*Quality of test & design (35/100)*
Mix of holes, character, does it reward good golf etc
*
Condition & presentation (30/100)
*Tees, greens, different cuts of rough, signage, bunker quality etc

*Visual appeal (15/100)
*Memorable views, surrounding land, in keeping with its environment etc

*Facilities (10/100)
*Clubhouse, practice ground, changing rooms, website info etc

*Experience (10/100)
*Welcome, sense of occasion, value for money, do you want to return etc
		
Click to expand...

35 marks out of 100 for quality of test and design.
Thanks Jake all makes sense to me now and I can understand how I get agitated when this list comes out.


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## IanG (Nov 25, 2014)

Jake O'Reilly said:



			'Value' is so very subjective, and doing a best value 100 would also entail our assessors visiting 700+ courses to be thorough! A better approach would perhaps be 'Top 100 under Â£XX', which I'll be sure to mention in our next GM staff meeting.
		
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National Club Golfer did such a list last year (under Â£100) , which I happen to remember as we came out top !!:whoo:

It's still online at their site.


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 25, 2014)

Jake O'Reilly said:



			'Value' is so very subjective, and doing a best value 100 would also entail our assessors visiting 700+ courses to be thorough! A better approach would perhaps be 'Top 100 under Â£XX', which I'll be sure to mention in our next GM staff meeting.
		
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Cheers Jake.  I agree that value is very subjective and it is a tricky one. But it would be great if you could find a peach of a course relatively near you that you were unaware of, that you could play for a sensible (again very subjective I agree) amount of money.


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## stevek1969 (Nov 25, 2014)

With regards to reviews is it not the same people reviewing the same courses year in year out, maybe its time for fresh eyes. It doesn't matter they've played golf for 100 years or played 1000s of courses its the same people is it not,time for a fresh outlook.


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## Jake O'Reilly (Nov 25, 2014)

stevek1969 said:



			With regards to reviews is it not the same people reviewing the same courses year in year out, maybe its time for fresh eyes. It doesn't matter they've played golf for 100 years or played 1000s of courses its the same people is it not,time for a fresh outlook.
		
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Our staff panel remains mostly the same as they bring experience to the table, but our advisory panel (other experienced members of the golf industry) and our reader panel changes frequently, as explained in this month's magazine, which goes on sale Thursday.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 25, 2014)

I do believe the weight of the assessment should be more towards the quality and lay out of the course which you appear to have got right 80% - and with that weighting I still don't understand how the Belfry Brabazon is in there as well as the Grove 

Would put a course like Blackmoor above , Gog Magog , Sheringham , Cromer etc


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 25, 2014)

Hi Jake, I presume that all the "markers" give their marks out of ...... and it's all on a spreadsheet. 

For a bit of forum fun and debate, could you either do a new list, or even tell us what some of the big difference in positions would be, if they were only rated on the following:-

*Quality of test & design (35/100)*
Mix of holes, character, does it reward good golf etc
*
Condition & presentation (30/100)
*Tees, greens, different cuts of rough, signage, bunker quality etc

*Visual appeal (15/100)
*Memorable views, surrounding land, in keeping with its environment etc

I think most of us on here generally just judge on the above (apart from the Old course and some of the more memorable ones like Sunningdale etc). Not everyone stays for "high tea" and goes to the short game area, so personally would be fascinated what come out of the above......


Go on,I dares yer.....


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## pokerjoke (Nov 25, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I do believe the weight of the assessment should be more towards the quality and lay out of the course which you appear to have got right 80% - and with that weighting I still don't understand how the Belfry Brabazon is in there as well as the Grove 

Would put a course like Blackmoor above , Gog Magog , Sheringham , Cromer etc
		
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Maybe I think it could be down to some of the members there that keeps it lower.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 25, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Hi Jake, I presume that all the "markers" give their marks out of ...... and it's all on a spreadsheet. 

For a bit of forum fun and debate, could you either do a new list, or even tell us what some of the big difference in positions would be, if they were only rated on the following:-

*Quality of test & design (35/100)*
Mix of holes, character, does it reward good golf etc
*
Condition & presentation (30/100)
*Tees, greens, different cuts of rough, signage, bunker quality etc

*Visual appeal (15/100)
*Memorable views, surrounding land, in keeping with its environment etc

I think most of us on here generally just judge on the above (apart from the Old course and some of the more memorable ones like Sunningdale etc). Not everyone stays for "high tea" and goes to the short game area, so personally would be fascinated what come out of the above......


Go on,I dares yer.....

Click to expand...

I would second that, even go further and drop the visual appeal.
There are some great courses in some not so great places. Caister and Dundonald spring to mind.


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## Jake O'Reilly (Nov 25, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Hi Jake, I presume that all the "markers" give their marks out of ...... and it's all on a spreadsheet. 

For a bit of forum fun and debate, could you either do a new list, or even tell us what some of the big difference in positions would be, if they were only rated on the following:-

*Quality of test & design (35/100)*
Mix of holes, character, does it reward good golf etc
*
Condition & presentation (30/100)
*Tees, greens, different cuts of rough, signage, bunker quality etc

*Visual appeal (15/100)
*Memorable views, surrounding land, in keeping with its environment etc

I think most of us on here generally just judge on the above (apart from the Old course and some of the more memorable ones like Sunningdale etc). Not everyone stays for "high tea" and goes to the short game area, so personally would be fascinated what come out of the above......

Go on,I dares yer.....

Click to expand...

I'm not sure where the marks are stored to do that I'm afraid - you're asking a humble equipment writer here after all! - but it's good to know everyone's feedback on things like the weighting so we can make changes to future editions so our rankings represent what matters most to club golfers.


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## OldMate (Nov 25, 2014)

richart said:



			Two courses not in the list, but which must be close are Coombe Hill, and Tandridge. Both Clubs have a special feel about them.
		
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Yep, Tandridge has got to be close to making the list.  A few plain holes (the first) and a few towards the end, but most of the other holes are very good.  Didn't The Addington rank about #70 last time around? No sign of it on the new list, which I agree with.


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## Snelly (Nov 25, 2014)

I have played 39 of these courses. 

I still think that RCD is a lot better than Muirfield and that Sunningdale Old is preferable to the New.  Loch Lomond and Moortown are overrated here in my view and I would also swap Swinley and St George's Hill around I think.  Belfry and Grove, no thanks. 

Highly subjective I agree.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 25, 2014)

I think the current ranking system provides a top 100 clubs list rather than courses list.

As stated, practice facilities, quality of changing rooms, clubhouse ambience etc are not of huge benefit to visitors, they have greater benefit to the members. If I'm looking for a top course for a day out, I don't really care how big a smile I get from the Mars bar salesman when I pay my green fee, I'm much more interested in a top course in great condition.


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## Jake O'Reilly (Nov 25, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I would second that, even go further and drop the visual appeal.
There are some great courses in some not so great places. Caister and Dundonald spring to mind.
		
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I think that's definitely a subjective category, as personally I'd much rather play somewhere like Crans-sur-Sierre or Thracian Cliffs in average nick than a resort course like The Belfry in perfect condition.


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## Foxholer (Nov 25, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I would second that, even go further and drop the visual appeal.
There are some great courses in some not so great places. Caister and Dundonald spring to mind.
		
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Visual appeal certainly warrants inclusion if not the specific weighting imo. Part of the magic of certain courses for me. It's views and vistas that I remember more than many holes for certain courses (eg. Gleneagles, Hindhead, Walton Heath, Hillside and even Batchworth Park!)

I'd certainly be interested in seeing what effect different weightings have on the ratings, though I suspect each area is built up from separate questions each of which contributes pretty much equally to the total, as opposed to a broad 35:30:15:10:10 assessment!


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## Val (Nov 25, 2014)

Jake O'Reilly said:



			Just to add to this, our rankings are based on the below, which is why some course like The Belfry and The Grove have featured higher than the course alone may suggest in some of your opinions. You can read about all the criteria in depth, and the panelists involved, in our new issue that goes on sale Thursday:

*Quality of test & design (35/100)*
Mix of holes, character, does it reward good golf etc
*
Condition & presentation (30/100)
*Tees, greens, different cuts of rough, signage, bunker quality etc

*Visual appeal (15/100)
*Memorable views, surrounding land, in keeping with its environment etc

*Facilities (10/100)
*Clubhouse, practice ground, changing rooms, website info etc

*Experience (10/100)
*Welcome, sense of occasion, value for money, do you want to return etc
		
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Thanks Jake,

If there are 80/100 for everything outwith *Facilites* and *Experience* then why are courses like Western Gailes, Blairgowrie listed below some mediocre courses0. I appreciate it can be a bit subjective but it baffles me when courses aren't even listed that are well spoken of in golf circles, Glasgow Gailes and Little Aston were both Open qualifiers, Dundonald is listed as having the potential to hold a Scottish Open, what about Archerfield, is neither course good enough because their facilities are amongst the best out there. What about Wallasey? Bubba Watson thought it that good he played it twice during Open week, it even had Gary Player pay a visit.

This list always creates debate and it's good for that but the amount of quality courses missing from it is baffling.


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## GeneralStore (Nov 25, 2014)

I have played 17 of these, so work to do!

One of the courses that stands out for me is the Addington, with all due respect I think its ok as a course, nothing more. If you want to factor the club as a whole, then it wouldn't even rate it as ok. I am a member at Hindhead which in my opinion is a far better course, much better condition and a better clubhouse and facilities. Would not be a contest between those 2 courses. 

I also want to add that I was fortunate enough to play St Georges Hill recently and all I can say is wow! Some of those holes were just awesome. I am sure I will get stick for saying this, but I preferred it to Sunningdale Old Course, thought it was very similar to be fair. Berkshire Red is also lovely, but not quite as nice as SGH.

But Addington? Really? Can someone explain that to me?


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## matt611 (Nov 25, 2014)

The link to the "next 100" courses does not seem to be working


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## Snelly (Nov 25, 2014)

I agree about the visual appeal.  It is crucial for me.  As is the amount of man made noise actually - Hankley over the Berkshire for this reason alone for me in fact. 

I am not typical though. The quality of the wine list and waitress hotness levels are also personal considerations of mine.  For example, Royal Eastbourne is an absolute dump but a beautiful waitress there once showed me her bow backed knickers and I can't wait to play again. 

Similarly, I really don't like Wentworth at all but the Astrolab Reisling that they have makes it almost bearable.


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## matt611 (Nov 25, 2014)

I'm pleased County Sligo is back in the list, cracking Colt links course.  Now if only to get more recognition for the other courses in the area


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 25, 2014)

Jake O'Reilly said:



			I'm not sure where the marks are stored to do that I'm afraid - you're asking a humble equipment writer here after all! - but it's good to know everyone's feedback on things like the weighting so we can make changes to future editions so our rankings represent what matters most to club golfers.
		
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Awwwwwwww come on, I'm sure someone at GM towers has "The Red File".

We're not saying that it should be done differently for future editions, just that it would be very interesting to see, as most of the "subjective debates" tend to focus around the course only, so would be good to see how the lists compare. Even just give us the big movers or losers.............or do a one-page spread in a future edition, and have a big skull and cross bones on the front.:whoo:


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## Smiffy (Nov 25, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Royal Eastbourne is an absolute dump but a beautiful waitress there once showed me her bow backed knickers and I can't wait to play again.
		
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You want to get your rump down to Cooden.
Ask RickG about "the tattoo" 


And I cannot believe that Beau Desert doesn't appear in the top 100.
An absolute stunner of a course that would command a Â£2k joining fee if it was situated in Surrey.


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## Wabinez (Nov 25, 2014)

Jake O'Reilly said:



			We regularly weep for poor Jezz who has played all 100, and over 650 courses in total!
		
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Did you need someone to help carry the burden...?!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 25, 2014)

matt611 said:



			I'm pleased County Sligo is back in the list, cracking Colt links course.  Now if only to get more recognition for the other courses in the area
		
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Enniscrone should be top 10


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## MikeH (Nov 25, 2014)

as ever interesting to hear everyone's thoughts, opinions, views etc

I will post a few answers to questions/responses in due course as I am sure will Jezz. might even ask Rob Smith who is the third member of the senior panel to get involved too

only thing I'd highlight is that as we always say - this list is SUBJECTIVE - ie based on opinion. hence why so many different views. No one is 'right' when it comes to course rannkings. Not us, not even the most opiniated people on here who say ... course A should definitely be above course B. 

To get the full insight into the process we use to create the list you'll need to read the issue... or the Top 100 microsite when its fully functioning which hopefully it will be later today


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 25, 2014)

Mike...while you are online, did you see my email about the forum national competition??


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## Val (Nov 25, 2014)

MikeH said:



			as ever interesting to hear everyone's thoughts, opinions, views etc

I will post a few answers to questions/responses in due course as I am sure will Jezz. might even ask Rob Smith who is the third member of the senior panel to get involved too

only thing I'd highlight is that as we always say - this list is SUBJECTIVE - ie based on opinion. hence why so many different views. No one is 'right' when it comes to course rannkings. Not us, not even the most opiniated people on here who say ... course A should definitely be above course B. 

To get the full insight into the process we use to create the list you'll need to read the issue... or the Top 100 microsite when its fully functioning which hopefully it will be later today
		
Click to expand...

I appreciate he'd be hear forever but it would be good to get a wee Q&A with Jezz on why courses did make the list ahead of those who did.


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## matt611 (Nov 25, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Enniscrone should be top 10  

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And definitely a good contender for best value for money course


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## OldMate (Nov 25, 2014)

GeneralStore said:



			I have played 17 of these, so work to do!

One of the courses that stands out for me is the Addington, with all due respect I think its ok as a course, nothing more. If you want to factor the club as a whole, then it wouldn't even rate it as ok. I am a member at Hindhead which in my opinion is a far better course, much better condition and a better clubhouse and facilities. Would not be a contest between those 2 courses. 

I also want to add that I was fortunate enough to play St Georges Hill recently and all I can say is wow! Some of those holes were just awesome. I am sure I will get stick for saying this, but I preferred it to Sunningdale Old Course, thought it was very similar to be fair. Berkshire Red is also lovely, but not quite as nice as SGH.

But Addington? Really? Can someone explain that to me?
		
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I can't see The Addington on the list.  I agree with you that it shouldn't be there but I don't think that it is unless I'm missing it.


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## matt611 (Nov 25, 2014)

Jake O'Reilly said:



			'Value' is so very subjective, and doing a best value 100 would also entail our assessors visiting 700+ courses to be thorough! A better approach would perhaps be 'Top 100 under Â£XX', which I'll be sure to mention in our next GM staff meeting.
		
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Or perhaps more focus on courses ranked 100-200


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 25, 2014)

Jake O'Reilly said:



			'Value' is so very subjective, and doing a best value 100 would also entail our assessors visiting 700+ courses to be thorough! A better approach would perhaps be 'Top 100 under Â£XX', which I'll be sure to mention in our next GM staff meeting.
		
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Can I give another vote for this one. Paying Â£100 + for a round of golf is simply not viable for a lot of people, no matter how nice the course is. Best under Â£100, Â£75, Â£50 would be great to see. We keep talking about making golf more attractive to people and cost is a major factor.


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## MikeH (Nov 25, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Mike...while you are online, did you see my email about the forum national competition??
		
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I d'nt think so - did it get sent direct to me michael.harris@timeinc.com ? can you resend and it'll be top of the pile at least


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## MikeH (Nov 25, 2014)

Val said:



			I appreciate he'd be hear forever but it would be good to get a wee Q&A with Jezz on why courses did make the list ahead of those who did.
		
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absolutely martin - great idea. I'm meeting with Jezza tomorrow and have just emailed him and Rob so we will get something in place


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 25, 2014)

MikeH said:



			I d'nt think so - did it get sent direct to me michael.harris@timeinc.com ? can you resend and it'll be top of the pile at least
		
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Yeah that's the address I sent it to, resending it now....cheers

Scrub that, I sent it to Mike not Michael

my bad


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## Foxholer (Nov 25, 2014)

OldMate said:



			I can't see The Addington on the list.  I agree with you that it shouldn't be there but I don't think that it is unless I'm missing it.
		
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Nope. Addington isn't there! May have been last year though.

While I haven't played it for a few years, I've always considered it to be a great course for 3 Seasons - just not Summer!  Rates highly, for me, for architectural qualities, but having to hit your Drive almost into the trees on the right and hope your ball gets held up in the rough so that it doesn't roll into the trees on the left is rather ridiculous imo! No problem with 'quirky' holes (like several at North Berwick or The Old Course) and there's several of those, but it's definitely not a Summer course!


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## Val (Nov 25, 2014)

MikeH said:



			absolutely martin - great idea. I'm meeting with Jezza tomorrow and have just emailed him and Rob so we will get something in place
		
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Better chain him to his laptop then, he could be here a while


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 25, 2014)

Do you know what is great - for such a small land area we have such wonderful golf courses on our island with a great deal of them the best in the world - how great is it to be a golfer in the UK 

My list is at 19 currently but will be adding RCP later then County Down , Royal Liverpool amongst others next year


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## cookelad (Nov 25, 2014)

Anyone else unable to get the "Next 100" to work?


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## stevek1969 (Nov 25, 2014)

Portstewart Strand isn't in the top 100 either wow,people must go about with there eyes closed at times ,its the best front 9 I've played.


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## MikeH (Nov 25, 2014)

cookelad said:



			Anyone else unable to get the "Next 100" to work?
		
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as said further up the thread the new microsite is stil being finisihed off - final bits should be loading by the end of the day


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## cookelad (Nov 25, 2014)

MikeH said:



			as said further up the thread the new microsite is stil being finisihed off - final bits should be loading by the end of the day
		
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Thanks, must've missed that!


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## richart (Nov 25, 2014)

Must admit I really look forward to the GM top 100 courses coming out. Usually a great discussion and as Mike says it is subjective. I am fortunate to have played 30 courses on the list with five more lined up over the next months. Personally I judge courses first and foremost by the course, quality of holes, condition, setting etc, and to me facilities as a much lower second consideration. Some clubs have huge clubhouses with all the facilities, but I find them soulless. Woburn springs to mind.

I do think it is a shame that there are courses in the top 100 that you just can not play unless you know a member. Think there should be some sort of penalty for making them so exclusive. I find the list inspires me to want to play the courses, and then you see you can't.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 25, 2014)

Spot on in regards the clubhouse in Woburn - it's a cafe it's not a golf clubhouse


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## richart (Nov 25, 2014)

What about a ranking for the next 100 ? Would be interesting to see which courses are close to breaking into the top 100.

Oh and the calendar shot of the hole at Bearwood Lakes is a bit out of date. There is a huge pond on the right just short of the green now. The ditch running across in front of the green has been filled in. The hole looks much better now.:thup:


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## Smiffy (Nov 25, 2014)

richart said:



			There is a huge pond on the right just short of the green now. The ditch running across in front of the green has been filled in. The hole looks much better now.:thup:
		
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I guess it depends whether your ball is lying on the ditch that has been filled in, or in the process of sinking in the huge pond.


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## adiemel (Nov 25, 2014)

I have played 1 of the top 100 courses. lol but then not been playing long still plenty of time.


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## richart (Nov 25, 2014)

adiemel said:



			I have played 1 of the top 100 courses. lol but then not been playing long still plenty of time.
		
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 One of the best ones, which should be much higher in the rankings.:thup:


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## adiemel (Nov 25, 2014)

Yes it was a very good course and yes should be higher up the rankings. Hopefully will get to play another with the h4h again.


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## MendieGK (Nov 25, 2014)

I notice that the distribution of the 100 marks didnt show the 'Links' Bias? 

Do you just add on the extra 20marks at the end :thup:


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## Val (Nov 25, 2014)

MendieGK said:



			I notice that the distribution of the 100 marks didnt show the 'Links' Bias? 

Do you just add on the extra 20marks at the end :thup:
		
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There is no bias to links, they are the best courses for a reason.

You should go and play a few, spread your wings


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## Junior (Nov 25, 2014)

Always look forward to the list coming out and the debate around it.  I've only managed to tick off 19 but imo, I don't get the buzz from the course at Moortown and much prefer these to a number on the list...S&A, Ballyliffin, Portstewart Strand, BeauDesert, Wallasey, BOG.   For me, it's the same with Nairn. The first 7 are amazing , but then once you turn back, (aside from the big downhill par 3) it doesn't really get my juices flowing.

Unlike most on here, I 'get' Royal Liverpool.  It might not have towering dunes, but The test and grandure of the place merits it's place.  I also 'get' why the Brabazons places so consistently each year.   I played it in 2013 in the middle of Summer and quite simply, I've never played a course in better condition. The greens were the purest I've ever putt on and taking divots out of fairways seemed a sin they were so perfectly manicured. That said, Id much rather play the courses I list above.


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## chrisd (Nov 25, 2014)

richart said:



			Going to Effingham instead,

.
		
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Do you call it that so you don't get an infraction?


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## virtuocity (Nov 25, 2014)

I take nothing from these lists.  To be honest, I have yet to play a golf course, even local munis which I didn't enjoy.  Maybe I'll get more picky as I enter my 4th year of golf.


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## MashieNiblick (Nov 25, 2014)

Jake O'Reilly said:



			Just to add to this, our rankings are based on the below, which is why some course like The Belfry and The Grove have featured higher than the course alone may suggest in some of your opinions. You can read about all the criteria in depth, and the panelists involved, in our new issue that goes on sale Thursday:

*Quality of test & design (35/100)*
Mix of holes, character, does it reward good golf etc
*
Condition & presentation (30/100)
*Tees, greens, different cuts of rough, signage, bunker quality etc

*Visual appeal (15/100)
*Memorable views, surrounding land, in keeping with its environment etc

*Facilities (10/100)
*Clubhouse, practice ground, changing rooms, website info etc

*Experience (10/100)
*Welcome, sense of occasion, value for money, do you want to return etc
		
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Thanks, that's helpful in understanding how they are ranked. Further to other comments on this, I would be interested to see a list of the top 10 or 5 in each category. Any chance of that?


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 25, 2014)

I'm sure other magazines have done a list of the best courses in various price brackets as suggested on here earlier and I agree that for some, these top courses are way out of their price range even as a special treat. There are so many courses that fall into more affordable price brackets which will also bring in many I imagine will be on the next 100 list into the equation


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## Tashyboy (Nov 25, 2014)

*Top 100 courses.*

Well my January 2015 Golf Monthly turned up today and I have had a spiffling good read.
there is an excellent piece on the top 100 courses which I am sure will have the purists arguing all day and night long.

however my post has nowt to do with what is the best of the best.

The criteria is based upon quality of test and design, Condition and presentation, visual appeal, Facilities and finally experience. There are 33 seasoned golfers who have voted for this list. 

What i cannot get my head around is not one person has mentioned cost. Of the top five courses, the cheapest is the old course St Andrews (no5) at Â£160, with the dearest being royal Birkdale at Â£205 (no5). The last course mentioned is not even the dearest in the top 100. Eh, and people wonder why golf is struggling. Flippin Eck. Now don't get me wrong, and I have not gone through all of the courses. but there are some good deals to be had. Notts/Hollinwell is down as Â£80 a round but in this edition of Golf monthly a fourball can be had at the same place for Â£100. Now we're talking.

what i would of seriously liked to of seen was a top 100 as per described but something else along the lines of courses that charge from Â£0-Â£75, Â£75-Â£150, then Â£150 plus. Then a revised top 100. 

Surely any course you play for the first time, you sit down and say "it was/was not worth it", yet this was not even a consideration.


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## User20205 (Nov 25, 2014)

*Re: Top 100 courses.*

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?72429-GM-Top-100-courses

I'm not really interested in reading about best muni's under Â£30. The top 100 is  aspirational, playing them is a bit of a treat.


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## Val (Nov 25, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I'm sure other magazines have done a list of the best courses in various price brackets as suggested on here earlier and I agree that for some, these top courses are way out of their price range even as a special treat. There are so many courses that fall into more affordable price brackets which will also bring in many I imagine will be on the next 100 list into the equation
		
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Once the next 100 list is up, wait to see the debate really heat up.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 25, 2014)

Anyway Mike, it's about time you and Jezzer earned your corn.

What about a worst 10 courses in winter, get out amongst the plebs, flask, winter mitts on sludgy fairways in January. What most of us mere mortals have to do.........

More bog than B.O.G. (Boat of Garten). Make it happen........:whoo:


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## patricks148 (Nov 25, 2014)

Junior said:



			Always look forward to the list coming out and the debate around it.  I've only managed to tick off 19 but imo, I don't get the buzz from the course at Moortown and much prefer these to a number on the list...S&A, Ballyliffin, Portstewart Strand, BeauDesert, Wallasey, BOG.   For me, it's the same with Nairn. The first 7 are amazing , but then once you turn back, (aside from the big downhill par 3) it doesn't really get my juices flowing.

Unlike most on here, I 'get' Royal Liverpool.  It might not have towering dunes, but The test and grandure of the place merits it's place.  I also 'get' why the Brabazons places so consistently each year.   I played it in 2013 in the middle of Summer and quite simply, I've never played a course in better condition. The greens were the purest I've ever putt on and taking divots out of fairways seemed a sin they were so perfectly manicured. That said, Id much rather play the courses I list above.
		
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thats the subjective bit, you thought the last 3 at Nairn were not all that were most of the comments the club get are that the last 4 holes are the best,of course you did play off the yellow#s that makes all the difference even though its prob only 100 yards over those last 3 holes.


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## patricks148 (Nov 25, 2014)

*Re: Top 100 courses.*



Tashyboy said:



			Well my January 2015 Golf Monthly turned up today and I have had a spiffling good read.
there is an excellent piece on the top 100 courses which I am sure will have the purists arguing all day and night long.

however my post has nowt to do with what is the best of the best.

The criteria is based upon quality of test and design, Condition and presentation, visual appeal, Facilities and finally experience. There are 33 seasoned golfers who have voted for this list. 

What i cannot get my head around is not one person has mentioned cost. Of the top five courses, the cheapest is the old course St Andrews (no5) at Â£160, with the dearest being royal Birkdale at Â£205 (no5). The last course mentioned is not even the dearest in the top 100. Eh, and people wonder why golf is struggling. Flippin Eck. Now don't get me wrong, and I have not gone through all of the courses. but there are some good deals to be had. Notts/Hollinwell is down as Â£80 a round but in this edition of Golf monthly a fourball can be had at the same place for Â£100. Now we're talking.

what i would of seriously liked to of seen was a top 100 as per described but something else along the lines of courses that charge from Â£0-Â£75, Â£75-Â£150, then Â£150 plus. Then a revised top 100. 

Surely any course you play for the first time, you sit down and say "it was/was not worth it", yet this was not even a consideration.
		
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Those costs are the max mid summer tourist rates. 4 of us just played Muirfield for Â£70 each


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## Tashyboy (Nov 25, 2014)

*Re: Top 100 courses.*

Mods can you drop this in the 100 courses blog please.


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## pbrown7582 (Nov 25, 2014)

*Re: Top 100 courses.*

Cost is relative to supply and demand. Take the old course @Â£165 (but also to book in advance in summer you need to play a 2nd course at around Â£80) however try getting on! There is no shortage of people waiting with plastic in hand!


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## JezzE (Nov 25, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Anyway Mike, it's about time you and Jezzer earned your corn.

What about a worst 10 courses in winter, get out amongst the plebs, flask, winter mitts on sludgy fairways in January. What most of us mere mortals have to do.........

More bog than B.O.G. (Boat of Garten). Make it happen........:whoo:
		
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More than happy to do that as I have done on many occasions in the past and continue to do so throughout the winter these days!

Look out for my mention of Bridgend Golf Complex in the Feb issue's Golfer's Guide feature, a course costing a handful of pounds that reminded me of my time working at Horsham Golf Park in Sussex. Only Pyle & Kenfig in that feature on four courses close to Bridgend would make a noticeable dent in the wallet of any golfer.

Meeting with MikeH tomorrow, and hope to be back on here later in the week to engage in a bit of Top 100 conversation/banter!

Please go easy on me as I'm a little bit insecure these days following my switch from employee to freelancer and I do have two hungry kids to feed this Christmas...


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## Imurg (Nov 25, 2014)

*Re: Top 100 courses.*



Tashyboy said:



			what i would of seriously liked to of seen was a top 100 as per described but something else along the lines of courses that charge from Â£0-Â£75, Â£75-Â£150, then Â£150 plus. Then a revised top 100.
		
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With a top 100 based on GM's criteria, you probably have 200 candidates for the 100 spaces.
In the Â£0-Â£75 range you would many thousands of courses vying for position, all would have to be visited and the collation of all the data would take up the next decade.
I agree with the sentiments but the practicality knocks it on the head.


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## Val (Nov 25, 2014)

JezzE said:



			More than happy to do that as I have done on many occasions in the past and continue to do so throughout the winter these days!

Look out for my mention of Bridgend Golf Complex in the Feb issue's Golfer's Guide feature, a course costing a handful of pounds that reminded me of my time working at Horsham Golf Park in Sussex. Only Pyle & Kenfig in that feature on four courses close to Bridgend would make a noticeable dent in the wallet of any golfer.

Meeting with MikeH tomorrow, and hope to be back on here later in the week to engage in a bit of Top 100 conversation/banter!

Please go easy on me as I'm a little bit insecure these days following my switch from employer to freelancer and I do have two hungry kids to feed this Christmas...
		
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Get your flak jacket on Jezz, I'm sure there will be lots of bullets flying


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 25, 2014)

*Re: Top 100 courses.*



Imurg said:



			With a top 100 based on GM's criteria, you probably have 200 candidates for the 100 spaces.
In the Â£0-Â£75 range you would many thousands of courses vying for position, all would have to be visited and the collation of all the data would take up the next decade.
I agree with the sentiments but the practicality knocks it on the head.
		
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Â£0-Â£75 seems to be too wide. Why not start at Â£50-Â£75 where there are plenty of very good courses in that bracket, even in summer


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## JezzE (Nov 25, 2014)

Val said:



			Get your flak jacket on Jezz, I'm sure there will be lots of bullets flying 

Click to expand...

I came out of it alive two years ago, Martin, so surely it can't be any worse than that...


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## Junior (Nov 25, 2014)

patricks148 said:



			thats the subjective bit, you thought the last 3 at Nairn were not all that were most of the comments the club get are that the last 4 holes are the best,of course you did play off the yellow#s that makes all the difference even though its prob only 100 yards over those last 3 holes.
		
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I enjoyed the last 3 ....  especially the one with the burn.  It appeared to be a cracking members club/ course.  Although, your right, I'd like to play the course from the championship tees as I think it would be a different animal.  8 and 9 were a bit non-descript off the tees we played off and were a bit of an anti-climax after the first 7.


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## Imurg (Nov 25, 2014)

*Re: Top 100 courses.*



HomerJSimpson said:



			Â£0-Â£75 seems to be too wide. Why not start at Â£50-Â£75 where there are plenty of very good courses in that bracket, even in summer
		
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Still potentially too many to make visiting each one viable


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 25, 2014)

JezzE said:



			Please go easy on me as I'm a little bit insecure these days following my switch from employee to* freeloader* and I do have two hungry kids to feed this Christmas...
		
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Fixed that for you Jezz


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 25, 2014)

JezzE said:



			More than happy to do that as I have done on many occasions in the past and continue to do so throughout the winter these days!

Look out for my mention of Bridgend Golf Complex in the Feb issue's Golfer's Guide feature, a course costing a handful of pounds that reminded me of my time working at Horsham Golf Park in Sussex. Only Pyle & Kenfig in that feature on four courses close to Bridgend would make a noticeable dent in the wallet of any golfer.

Meeting with MikeH tomorrow, and hope to be back on here later in the week to engage in a bit of Top 100 conversation/banter!

Please go easy on me as I'm a little bit insecure these days following my switch from employee to freelancer and I do have two hungry kids to feed this Christmas...
		
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Good stuff, but would you actually label them "worst 10", very brave of GM, especially if a private club.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 25, 2014)

*Re: Top 100 courses.*

It's not a cast in stone, criteria re the brackets I named they were just kinda examples.

you will get no arguments from me re there would be hundreds to chose from, but they chose 100 from 150 courses. And some of them are not in the top price band, so there must be others.

what has been getting my back up re the last few issues of golf monthly, is some of the things they have been advertising from golf suppliers have been massively expensive.

eg last issue was an excellent piece on Galvin Green. It's the business I wear it. But there were 3x examples of models wearing over one thousand pounds worth of gear. Eh. Why not have examples of other golfing gear. Ie, cheaper options.

it is done with Clubs and balls, but why stop there.

I  thouroghly understand golf and courses are struggling, but advertising top end/top price products requires a bit of balance with mid range and lower range products reviewed. Not all golfers are rolling in it.


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## JezzE (Nov 25, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Good stuff, but would you actually label them "worst 10", very brave of GM, especially if a private club.
		
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No we wouldn't - not sure that would be particularly fair slating a course that may struggle through the winter but be a joy to play in the summer. We'd have had to slag off a lot of very, very good courses on that basis over the last two winters we've had...


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## JezzE (Nov 25, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Fixed that for you Jezz  

Click to expand...

Nice... thank you...


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## patricks148 (Nov 25, 2014)

Junior said:



			I enjoyed the last 3 ....  especially the one with the burn.  It appeared to be a cracking members club/ course.  Although, your right, I'd like to play the course from the championship tees as I think it would be a different animal.  8 and 9 were a bit non-descript off the tees we played off and were a bit of an anti-climax after the first 7.
		
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8 and 9 are prob 2 of the best risk reward holes. in particular 8, during the walker cup though only 350  yards, there  were not many 4's.


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## pbrown7582 (Nov 25, 2014)

*Re: Top 100 courses.*

There was a review of all priced gear was the GG models was marked as an advertising feature rather than a review.


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## sawtooth (Nov 25, 2014)

richart said:



			Send you a link.:rofl:

Mariners have dropped Liphook for next year for being stuffy, so not just me.:ears: Going to Effingham instead, which I haven't played, but have heard good things.
		
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I found the folks at Liphook very hospitable when I went along with the Mariners last month. Smashing course as well, although they need better lighting in the car park. I couldnt see a thing when I left the clubhouse.

Going to Effingham? Sounds like a line out of a carry on film


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 25, 2014)

JezzE said:



			No we wouldn't - not sure that would be particularly fair slating a course that may struggle through the winter but be a joy to play in the summer. We'd have had to slag off a lot of very, very good courses on that basis over the last two winters we've had...
		
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I thought so.

To be fair, in this economic climate, it could have enough of a detrimental effect to send one to the wall.

I'm sure you'd hate to be labelled "the course killer".


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## drewster (Nov 26, 2014)

richart said:



			Two courses not in the list, but which must be close are Coombe Hill, and Tandridge. Both Clubs have a special feel about them.

Surprised Burnham and Berrow ranks above Saunton East, and that Worplesdon is ranked so high. Heard that it was not in good condition this year, and in my opinion not the best of the 3 W's.

Ladybank is nice, but is not as good as Broadstone.
		
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Is Worplesdon not the home club of the new R&A boss ?  A nod to him perhaps ???


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## bluewolf (Nov 26, 2014)

I'd agree that leaving Wallasey out is a mistake, but I do think that Beau Desert falls into the "Next best 100" though. I really enjoyed playing it, but there was very little Wow Factor other than the fact that the greens were sublime. In all honesty, I'd rate Fairhaven above BD. 


Royal North Devon should be higher than 72 and West Lancs wouldn't make it into my top 200. Lahinch could be higher IMO. 


However, in a couple of years I'd expect a new entry into the Top 10. Having walked several holes of Doonbeg last year, if Trump doesn't unleash an absolute monster of a course then it should be taken away from him and given to someone else.. It really is outstanding...


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## Retread61 (Nov 26, 2014)

richart said:



			Good to see West Hill has moved up the rankings, and Parkstone has got in the top 100. No place for Broadstone though the best course in Dorset.

By next April I will have played 33 of the courses, so need to get some more booked in.

Trumps new course straight in at 14.oo:
		
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I played West Hill a couple weeks ago and it is in the best condition I have ever seen it. They have spent the money they got from landfill on the course and it is better presented than Wentworth right now. 2k a year+ for subs seems a bargain!


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## Brechin balata (Nov 26, 2014)

*Re: Top 100 courses.*



patricks148 said:



			Those costs are the max mid summer tourist rates. 4 of us just played Muirfield for Â£70 each
		
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Any chance you could tell how you managed to play Muirfield for Â£70 a head?

thanks in advance


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## Twire (Nov 26, 2014)

*Re: Top 100 courses.*

Duplicate threads merged.


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## drewster (Nov 26, 2014)

NorfolkShaun said:



			Blimey some of you guys have played quite a few of these, playing my first next year in Woodhall Spa
		
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Likewise ........ playing Sherwood Forest next week which I'm looking forward to and living in Lincolnshire I really need to find a way to play the Hotchkin too. Maybe there'll be a meet there next year ??


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 26, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			I'd agree that leaving Wallasey out is a mistake, but I do think that Beau Desert falls into the "Next best 100" though. I really enjoyed playing it, but there was very little Wow Factor other than the fact that the greens were sublime. In all honesty, I'd rate Fairhaven above BD. 


Royal North Devon should be higher than 72 and West Lancs wouldn't make it into my top 200. Lahinch could be higher IMO. 


However, in a couple of years I'd expect a new entry into the Top 10. Having walked several holes of Doonbeg last year, if Trump doesn't unleash an absolute monster of a course then it should be taken away from him and given to someone else.. It really is outstanding...
		
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Just goes to show, I would have West Lancs above Wallasey.

Your not taking the boring flatness of the driving range into account are you Dan, it's OOB remember......


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## bluewolf (Nov 26, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Just goes to show, I would have West Lancs above Wallasey.

Your not taking the boring flatness of the driving range into account are you Dan, it's OOB remember......

Click to expand...

Ha ha.. I may be basing my opinion solely on my opening tee shot mate yes  .. It should also be said that West Lancs is approximately 20 degrees colder than anywhere else in the North West and is definitely not T Shirt weather in February.. Comfortably the coldest I've ever been on a course until all the Scottish boys had teed off..


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 26, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Ha ha.. I may be basing my opinion solely on my opening tee shot mate yes  .. It should also be said that West Lancs is approximately 20 degrees colder than anywhere else in the North West and is definitely not T Shirt weather in February.. Comfortably the coldest I've ever been on a course until all the Scottish boys had teed off.. 

Click to expand...

It was cold alright, cold enough to wear your nan's bingo hat, I'd be inclined to say.


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## Qwerty (Nov 26, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			It was cold alright, cold enough to wear your nan's bingo hat, I'd be inclined to say.

Click to expand...

 :blah:  :blah::blah:

*See the blah fella above, I think he Should have a curly wig and change the blah to "calm down calm down"


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## Lincoln Quaker (Nov 26, 2014)

drewster said:



			Likewise ........ playing Sherwood Forest next week which I'm looking forward to and living in Lincolnshire I really need to find a way to play the Hotchkin too. Maybe there'll be a meet there next year ??
		
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If you want a game send me a pm.


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 26, 2014)

drewster said:



			Likewise ........ playing Sherwood Forest next week which I'm looking forward to and living in Lincolnshire I really need to find a way to play the Hotchkin too. Maybe there'll be a meet there next year ??
		
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Enjoy Sherwood Forest, I'm off there on Saturday for a lesson, it's a great track. Also I'd back up the need to play The Hotchkin, a superb course and you really have no excuse if you live in Lincs!


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 26, 2014)

Qwerty said:



			:blah:  :blah::blah:

*See the blah fella above, I think he Should have a curly wig and change the blah to "calm down calm down"  

Click to expand...

I've bagged myself a Qwerty, pluck him and serve with dauphinoise, my good man.:whoo:


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## Val (Nov 26, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Just goes to show, I would have West Lancs above Wallasey.

Your not taking the boring flatness of the driving range into account are you Dan, it's OOB remember......

Click to expand...

What makes you say that? I think there is not much between them personally on the course but think Wallasey does shade it for variation. The clubhouse at West Lancs is horrible but a decent size and the welcome we got as an outing was shocking, it does have a far superior practice facility though. Wallasey has a good clubhouse, a very welcoming pro and bar staff, food ain't bad either, do West Lancs offer a cheese board?


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## Cheifi0 (Nov 26, 2014)

Junior said:



			Always look forward to the list coming out and the debate around it.  I've only managed to tick off 19 but imo, I don't get the buzz from the course at Moortown and much prefer these to a number on the list...S&A, Ballyliffin, Portstewart Strand, BeauDesert, Wallasey, BOG.   For me, it's the same with Nairn. The first 7 are amazing , but then once you turn back, (aside from the big downhill par 3) it doesn't really get my juices flowing.

Unlike most on here, I 'get' Royal Liverpool.  It might not have towering dunes, but The test and grandure of the place merits it's place.  I also 'get' why the Brabazons places so consistently each year.   I played it in 2013 in the middle of Summer and quite simply, I've never played a course in better condition. The greens were the purest I've ever putt on and taking divots out of fairways seemed a sin they were so perfectly manicured. That said, Id much rather play the courses I list above.
		
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I agree with you Andy about Moortown, of the ones in the top 100 I have played, around 8 that is the only one that didn't live up to expectations.  Got a few booked in for next year and hopefully Alwoodley and Ganton will be added to that list too.


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## Region3 (Nov 26, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Enjoy Sherwood Forest, I'm off there on Saturday for a lesson, it's a great track. Also I'd back up the need to play The Hotchkin, a superb course and you really have no excuse if you live in Lincs!
		
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I love Sherwood, but it loses a bit of it's bite off the yellows especially in winter when all the tees are pushed forward.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2014)

How many of the the clubs don't accept visitors ?


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## Fish (Nov 26, 2014)

Region3 said:



			I love Sherwood, but it loses a bit of it's bite off the yellows especially in winter when all the tees are pushed forward.
		
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I'm playing it next Friday, hope their not too far forward!


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## Val (Nov 26, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How many of the the clubs don't accept visitors ?
		
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Unsure but off the bat i'll say The Rennaissance to start, im led to believe this is invite only nd quick shifty at their website has no links for visitors or green fees.

Edit to add - Loch Lomond, as above.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2014)

Should a course where the General public not be allowed to play be in the top 100 ?


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## Val (Nov 26, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Should a course where the General public not be allowed to play be in the top 100 ?
		
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I don't think so, i'll also add that reviews of a course where the public cant play shouldn't even get airtime in any golf publication unless its for tournament coverage.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2014)

Yep I would agree with that also


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## Fish (Nov 26, 2014)

Played 12 of them, soon to be 13.  I wonder how long before The Centurion will take to get into it?


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## patricks148 (Nov 26, 2014)

I think prev lists had..

Skibo
Queenwood and Luffness, but no longer,but  i notice Loch lomand is still on here.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2014)

Fish said:



			Played 12 of them, soon to be 13.  I wonder how long before The Centurion will take to get into it?
		
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Will need the clubhouse to be built and the greens and fairways to mature for another couple of years or so


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## Foxholer (Nov 26, 2014)

Just had a peruse of the Top 100 'mini-site' - selected from the 'Latest News' bar, so that does work (even if there's lots of empty space below).

Can I suggest a slight alteration to the scoring - of the Condition and Presentation section. While I'm a little less concerned than most about quality of Tees - as long as the area is flat works fine for me - one thing that really gets up my nose is daft signage. 

I've lost count of the number of courses that have the signs only hidden in places that, if you can see the sign the sign isn't required as you are on the right path! So if any have that condition, then a negative mark should be awarded for 'signage'! I'm afraid Blackmoor is one of them (between 12 & 13) and Wentworth Edinburgh certainly is (between 2 &3 and 16 & 17)! I can even remember thinking the 4th at Huntercombe looked a bit samey to earlier hole, having turned right and gone to the obvious next tee, rather than left to follow a hidden path, where the sign to the correct one was! :rant:


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## TonyN (Nov 26, 2014)

Val said:



			It's all very subjective and in the eye of the player but of those I've played id rank in order as follows

Muirfield
Western Gailes
Royal Aberdeen
Royal Dornoch
Royal Lytham
Royal Liverpool
Machrihanish
Castle Stuart
Kingsbarns
Hillside
Siloth on Solway
Machrihanish Dunes
West Lancs
Gleneagles Kings
Gleneagles Queens
Belfry Brabazon
Gleneagles PGA

Im obviously very biased but can't believe Wallasey doesn't make the top 100 and interested to hear from those that decide why they thought it didn't. Similarly Little Aston especially given it help Open Qualifying this year.

Can't believe Royal Aberdeen doesn't scrape into the top 10 and can only assume the practice facilities hold it back, similarly Western Gailes at 53
		
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Val, I agree. 

I wouldn't include Royal Liverpool in my top courses. Apart from the history, the place isn't really all that. Maybe because its on my patch but I don't see the appeal. Having played it, I wasn't bowled over. Found it very ordinary. Very well kept but not spectacular in design.

Wallasey though; is outstanding. One of my favourite courses. Every single hole different and rewarding and better views. If there was any space at all to fit grandstands in the place would be an open championship course without doubt! 

I think Bromborough is better than Hoylake (and Paul Waring plays there)


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## TonyN (Nov 26, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Looking at the list that never made the 100, it's amazing how top tracks like Beau Desert, Wallasey didn't make it.
		
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Just sat here thinking about Beau Desert. Couldn't remember the name, but after playing it a couple of years ago, I walked off thinking 'I'd pay the Â£50 to just walk around the place again'


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2014)

TonyN said:



			Just sat here thinking about Beau Desert. Couldn't remember the name, but after playing it a couple of years ago, I walked off thinking 'I'd pay the Â£50 to just walk around the place again'
		
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Not played it before but not remembering the name of the course might tell a story ?


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## Val (Nov 26, 2014)

TonyN said:



			Val, I agree. 

I wouldn't include Royal Liverpool in my top courses. Apart from the history, the place isn't really all that. Maybe because its on my patch but I don't see the appeal. Having played it, I wasn't bowled over. Found it very ordinary. Very well kept but not spectacular in design.

Wallasey though; is outstanding. One of my favourite courses. Every single hole different and rewarding and better views. If there was any space at all to fit grandstands in the place would be an open championship course without doubt! 

I think Bromborough is better than Hoylake (and Paul Waring plays there)
		
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Where do you play Tony?


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## TonyN (Nov 26, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not played it before but not remembering the name of the course might tell a story ?
		
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usually I'd agree, many courses I play, I don't remember, I don't rate! But then my memory is poor anyway. Moment of temporary amnesia. BD was a gem!


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## TonyN (Nov 26, 2014)

Val said:



			Where do you play Tony?
		
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I'm a nomad ATM Val. I was at Upton by Chester untill 2010. However, this year i'm looking at rejoining a club and can't decide between Bromborough and Wallasey. Get to play Most of the Wirral courses with work society.


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## richart (Nov 26, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Just had a peruse of the Top 100 'mini-site' - selected from the 'Latest News' bar, so that does work (even if there's lots of empty space below).

Can I suggest a slight alteration to the scoring - of the Condition and Presentation section. While I'm a little less concerned than most about quality of Tees - as long as the area is flat works fine for me - one thing that really gets up my nose is daft signage. 

I've lost count of the number of courses that have the signs only hidden in places that, if you can see the sign the sign isn't required as you are on the right path! So if any have that condition, then a negative mark should be awarded for 'signage'! I'm afraid Blackmoor is one of them (between 12 & 13) and Wentworth Edinburgh certainly is (between 2 &3 and 16 & 17)! I can even remember thinking the 4th at Huntercombe looked a bit samey to earlier hole, having turned right and gone to the obvious next tee, rather than left to follow a hidden path, where the sign to the correct one was! :rant:
		
Click to expand...

All you do is follow the trolley paths, and it will take you to the next tee. Each hole has just one path. If you decide to go off piste, and take your trolley across the greens, through the heather, or in and out of the bunkers I can understand you getting lost. While I call them trolley paths they can be used by golfers carrying.:thup:


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## Junior (Nov 26, 2014)

Cheifi0 said:



			I agree with you Andy about Moortown, of the ones in the top 100 I have played, around 8 that is the only one that didn't live up to expectations.  Got a few booked in for next year and hopefully Alwoodley and Ganton will be added to that list too.
		
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Alwoodley is defo on my 'to do' list next Summer Josh. The gallery on the website has some stunning pics!!!


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## Val (Nov 26, 2014)

TonyN said:



			I'm a nomad ATM Val. I was at Upton by Chester untill 2010. However, this year i'm looking at rejoining a club and can't decide between Bromborough and Wallasey. Get to play Most of the Wirral courses with work society.
		
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Wallasey are taking members in currently, if you get an application in quick you might just manage in for February all being well, way to late for January now.


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## Foxholer (Nov 26, 2014)

richart said:



			All you do is follow the trolley paths, and it will take you to the next tee. Each hole has just one path. If you decide to go off piste, and take your trolley across the greens, through the heather, or in and out of the bunkers I can understand you getting lost. While I call them trolley paths they can be used by golfers carrying.:thup:
		
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That one at Blackmoor isn't as bad as some others as, if you look around, it's the logical path to follow. But that also means the sign is rather pointless - certainly where it is - it may as well be reworded to state 'Yes, you've come the right way'! Golf sign makers could make those in bulk! :rofl:


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## SocketRocket (Nov 26, 2014)

TonyN said:



			I'm a nomad ATM Val. I was at Upton by Chester untill 2010. However, this year i'm looking at rejoining a club and can't decide between Bromborough and Wallasey. Get to play Most of the Wirral courses with work society.
		
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I do like Caldy and Heswall.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 26, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Enjoy Sherwood Forest, I'm off there on Saturday for a lesson, it's a great track. Also I'd back up the need to play The Hotchkin, a superb course and you really have no excuse if you live in Lincs!
		
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Hacker, what part of the world are you from if your having a lesson at Sherwood, it is the nearest golf course to me.


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## TonyN (Nov 26, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			I do like Caldy and Heswall.
		
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Both Decent tracks, Caldy wasn't as good as people made it out to be. I wouldn't join either as a member, but do enjoy the occasional games there.


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## SocketRocket (Nov 26, 2014)

TonyN said:



			Both Decent tracks, Caldy wasn't as good as people made it out to be. I wouldn't join either as a member, but do enjoy the occasional games there.
		
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I played Leasowe once, not a top course but has some good links holes.  Eagled the first


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 26, 2014)

Its an interesting point about clubs not accepting visitors and green fees being in the top 100. I don't think it's right but as GM have pointed out there are a number of factors involved and this wouldn't appear to be a major consideration


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## pbrown7582 (Nov 26, 2014)

Junior said:



			Alwoodley is defo on my 'to do' list next Summer Josh. The gallery on the website has some stunning pics!!!
		
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sounds like a meet could be an idea as its 1 I fancy and fish too i believe.


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## TonyN (Nov 26, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			I played Leasowe once, not a top course but has some good links holes.  Eagled the first 

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I love the first at Leasowe, Would be even better if it was about 50 - 100 yards longer. The second is a bit bland and the 3rd is brilliant. After that it all gets a bit samey samey.


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## Val (Nov 26, 2014)

pbrown7582 said:



			sounds like a meet could be an idea as its 1 I fancy and fish too i believe.
		
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There's a few of us


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## Fish (Nov 26, 2014)

pbrown7582 said:



			sounds like a meet could be an idea as its 1 I fancy and fish too i believe.
		
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Val said:



			There's a few of us 

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Yeah, definitely high on my list, I had a tee-time booked the day before playing Moortowns Open but it was a little too late in the day. 

Well up for a little meet at Alwoodley


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## pbrown7582 (Nov 26, 2014)

Fish said:



			Yeah, definitely high on my list, I had a tee-time booked the day before playing Moortowns Open but it was a little too late in the day. 

Well up for a little meet at Alwoodley
		
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Had a little look on website it's Â£100 weekends or Â£70 after 2pm on a Sunday in summer.


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## Lincoln Quaker (Nov 26, 2014)

Fish said:



			Yeah, definitely high on my list, I had a tee-time booked the day before playing Moortowns Open but it was a little too late in the day. 

Well up for a little meet at Alwoodley
		
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Alwoodley is just cracking. Best course in Leeds by miles. The twilight offer in the summer is the best deal unless your a cat 1 golfer playing the Yorkshire order of merit. It's defo worthy of a forum meet next year.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 26, 2014)

Surprised the Ryder cup venue from the 50's (Lindrick) is not in it


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## Val (Nov 26, 2014)

Lincoln Quaker said:



			Alwoodley is just cracking. Best course in Leeds by miles. The twilight offer in the summer is the best deal unless your a cat 1 golfer playing the Yorkshire order of merit. It's defo worthy of a forum meet next year.
		
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Midweek and twilight, sounds good to me


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## pbrown7582 (Nov 26, 2014)

Val said:



			Midweek and twilight, sounds good to me
		
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Twlight is same weekday or weekend


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 26, 2014)

Val said:



			What makes you say that? I think there is not much between them personally on the course but think Wallasey does shade it for variation. The clubhouse at West Lancs is horrible but a decent size and the welcome we got as an outing was shocking, it does have a far superior practice facility though. Wallasey has a good clubhouse, a very welcoming pro and bar staff, food ain't bad either, do West Lancs offer a cheese board?
		
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For the 20/100 marks for the off field/atmosphere/club house etc, Wallasey wins hands down.

For the course only, Wallasey's best holes are a good bit better. West Lancs lesser holes are stronger than Wallasey. Overall I think West Lancs is tougher but generally better than Wallasey, but not even a full  1 out of 10 better, more a quarter. Some don't like the mid back 9  holes at West Lancs, but I like them ones, as the trees give it a bit of difference.

If Wallasey's flat holes were also in the dunes and with elevation changes, it would be a top 5 UK course. The flatness of 6 of the holes, just take away from it slightly.

When we played West Lancs with the forum, 2 holes were shortened, but I've played it from the whites when fully open and its a very good course.

Oh yes, at Wallasey you don't get chutney with the cheeseboard and it's through the tunnel!


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## Val (Nov 26, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			For the 20/100 marks for the off field/atmosphere/club house etc, Wallasey wins hands down.

For the course only, Wallasey's best holes are a good bit better. West Lancs lesser holes are stronger than Wallasey. Overall I think West Lancs is tougher but generally better than Wallasey, but not even a full  1 out of 10 better, more a quarter. Some don't like the mid back 9  holes at West Lancs, but I like them ones, as the trees give it a bit of difference.

If Wallasey's flat holes were also in the dunes and with elevation changes, it would be a top 5 UK course. The flatness of 6 of the holes, just take away from it slightly.

When we played West Lancs with the forum, 2 holes were shortened, but I've played it from the whites when fully open and its a very good course.

Oh yes, at Wallasey you don't get chutney with the cheeseboard and it's through the tunnel!

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Fair assesment even if i dont agree 

I really need another hit at WL.

For me Wallasey loses it at 6 + 7 then that horrible 10th hole which is a nothing hole. I really can't fault the rest, 
1st 4 holes are superb, 
a nice straight forward opener to a semi hidden green
a beast of a 2nd responsible for stableford
tough short par 4 3rd premium on accuracy off the tee and club selection to an elevated green 
the view off the 4th as good as you'll see anywhere
6+7 ive covered earlier, not great
8 is a second shot hole, tight wee green off a good dogleg
9th proves par 3's dont need to be long, similarly the 12th
10th yuck
11th is my favourite, similar to the 3rd
back to back par 5's running beside each other and totally different from each other on 13 + 14, great holes and tough if the wind is up, 
15 messes with your head with that second shot
16 is a beast especially with wind 1
7 is mental just hit it long, twice and sometimes 3 time 
18th is a cracking finish, great view, large green right in front of the clubhouse patio.

I'm obviously a bit biased but objective with it, 3 poor holes in 18 aint bad especially when the good ones wouldn't look out of place at any top links.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 26, 2014)

Val said:



			Fair assesment even if i dont agree 

I really need another hit at WL.

For me Wallasey loses it at 6 + 7 then that horrible 10th hole which is a nothing hole. I really can't fault the rest, 
1st 4 holes are superb, 
a nice straight forward opener to a semi hidden green
a beast of a 2nd responsible for stableford
tough short par 4 3rd premium on accuracy off the tee and club selection to an elevated green 
the view off the 4th as good as you'll see anywhere
6+7 ive covered earlier, not great
8 is a second shot hole, tight wee green off a good dogleg
9th proves par 3's dont need to be long, similarly the 12th
10th yuck
11th is my favourite, similar to the 3rd
back to back par 5's running beside each other and totally different from each other on 13 + 14, great holes and tough if the wind is up, 
15 messes with your head with that second shot
16 is a beast especially with wind 1
7 is mental just hit it long, twice and sometimes 3 time 
18th is a cracking finish, great view, large green right in front of the clubhouse patio.

I'm obviously a bit biased but objective with it, 3 poor holes in 18 aint bad especially when the good ones wouldn't look out of place at any top links.
		
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I don't mind 10 actually, I don't think I've played many holes that are like it, so I like it for that, and its always funny to see some people's chips run back past them.......

Wallasey is not far off perfection for 12 holes, and some may say that the flat holes are to give you a break, but if them other 6 kept the same standard it would be awesome. Truly.

You know me, I don't generally look for "weak" holes to criticise, and I'm not criticising Wallasey as it is on my list of possibles to join, but for the course only I think West Lancs is slightly consistently stronger throughout, although could also do with a bit more elevation changes to improve it.


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## Val (Nov 26, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			I don't mind 10 actually, I don't think I've played many holes that are like it, so I like it for that, and its always funny to see some people's chips run back past them.......

Wallasey is not far off perfection for 12 holes, and some may say that the flat holes are to give you a break, but if them other 6 kept the same standard it would be awesome. Truly.

*You know me, I don't generally look for "weak" holes to criticise*, and I'm not criticising Wallasey as it is on my list of possibles to join, but for the course only I think West Lancs is slightly consistently stronger throughout, although could also do with a bit more elevation changes to improve it.
		
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I know mate, im in the preference for elevation changes mould too but the more I play these flatter holes the more i appreciate them, they rarely play the same way. 

Always good to hear other genuine impartial views.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 26, 2014)

Val said:



			I know mate, im in the preference for elevation changes mould too but the more I play these flatter holes the more i appreciate them, they rarely play the same way. 

Always good to hear other genuine impartial views.
		
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Is right, I mean it's not as clear as the Hillside is well better than Formby debate, is it?


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## garyinderry (Nov 27, 2014)

i like the 10th at Wallasey.   the only other hole I have played that is similar is the 9th at moyola park in n.ireland.     massive big climb to the green.   I find it really hard to hold this green and get the correct height.   always a challenge in clubbing and trajectory. 

apparently it was seve's favourite hole when he played the course.


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## Qwerty (Nov 27, 2014)

That 10th at Wallasey has tripped me up the both times I've played it.
Good tee shot then under clubbed up the hill both times 
Is there a worse shot in golf, especially when you've hit it well just to see that ball trickling back towards you :rofl:

I don't know the the stroke index but on paper it should be a piece of cake. Good hole though.. A little different and certainly gets you thinking.


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## Fish (Nov 27, 2014)

I'd like to play West Lancs again as I played it slightly shortened but still enjoyed it, especially the front 9. The mid holes were ok although a couple were blind tee shots I think. There's just something about Wallasey that makes you love it even if it chews you up. 

Playing Formby Ladies next Wednesday for the first time, heard good things


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## Junior (Nov 27, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Is right, I mean it's not as clear as the Hillside is well better than Formby debate, is it?

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Steady ......i thought we had settled that Formby was better....

I need to play West Lancs again and in the Summer to appreciate it. Not fare to judge on a round in mid Winter on a shortened course.

Wallasey imo is on par with Aberdovey and a miles better course than Moortown.


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## Qwerty (Nov 27, 2014)

No doubt Andy.. Formby was the winner 
looks like the next question is wallasey or West lancs?  I'd say wallasey as west lancs is just too tough for the club golfer and the steak pie and chips at Wallasey are superb! 

Thats the tester although you can't see the drop off.


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## Fish (Nov 27, 2014)

Qwerty said:



			No doubt Andy.. Formby was the winner 
looks like the next question is wallasey or West lancs?  I'd say wallasey as west lancs is just too tough for the club golfer and the steak pie and chips at Wallasey are superb! 

Thats the tester although you can't see the drop off.
		
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I don't think I've putted out on the 10th yet, maybe once!

I agree, I think West Lancs is more testing and less forgiveable but a great experience all the same, Wallasey just has it all from the minute you take your clubs out the boot to putting them back in and everything in-between, West Lancs was very unsocial when we were all there but prepared to give the place a 2nd chance.


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## Snelly (Nov 27, 2014)

MashieNiblick said:



			Thanks, that's helpful in understanding how they are ranked. Further to other comments on this, I would be interested to see a list of the top 10 or 5 in each category. Any chance of that?
		
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An excellent idea.  I would like to see that too although I would think for the lesser categories, there are probably a few in equal first place as not enough marks to make them discernible.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 27, 2014)

Qwerty said:



			No doubt Andy.. Formby was the winner 
looks like the next question is wallasey or West lancs?  I'd say wallasey as west lancs is just too tough for the club golfer and the steak pie and chips at Wallasey are superb! 

Thats the tester although you can't see the drop off.
		
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Baaaaa - youse are all sheep.

I think its hard to split them, as I said. Play West Lancs in the summer and judge it then.

It is definitely tougher, of that there is no doubt. Better will be subjective.



Fish said:



			I don't think I've putted out on the 10th yet, maybe once!

I agree, I think West Lancs is more testing and less forgiveable but a great experience all the same, Wallasey just has it all from the minute you take your clubs out the boot to putting them back in and everything in-between, West Lancs was very unsocial when we were all there but prepared to give the place a 2nd chance.
		
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Your right Fish, the "club" at Wallasey is a lot better in comparison to WL (their club house looks like Grange Hill), although Wallasey's locker room could do with an upgrade - you didn't build them when the joiners were on strike in the 70's did you?


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## Snelly (Nov 27, 2014)

Of the Next 100 list, the ones that leap out to me as candidates for being inside the top 100 are Broadstone and North Hants. Possibly Ferndown, Lindrick and Royal Ashdown too. All absolutely excellent golf courses.   Of those I have played, these are the ones I would remove from the top 100 to make way: Sherwood Forest, Brabazon, Grove, Woburn Duchess, Worplesdon and Trevose.  The latter two being the closest to call. 

Again, entirely subjective and probably more of an indication of places I have personally enjoyed rather than a true reflection of which is best.  For example, when I played Trevose, it was in very poor condition but I am sure this is an anomaly.   

The Duchess is really tight (oo-er missus) and off the yellow tees, not a very good test of golf in my view as the landing areas are either a 6 iron away or too tight for a long club.  Grove and Belfry? Not for me at all but I haven't ever found a new course that I really liked (and I have played a few including Loch Lomond), Bearwood Lakes being the exception that proves the rule.  

Good fun to consider all this.  One man's meat etc....


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 27, 2014)

Tashyboy said:



			Hacker, what part of the world are you from if your having a lesson at Sherwood, it is the nearest golf course to me.
		
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Are you sure Mansfield Golf Club is not closer but Sherwood Forest sounds a lot better  I think you'd go a long way to try and find 2 more contrasting courses that are within a pitching wedge of each other.  

I'm Watnall, posh bit of Nottingham so Sherwood Forest is not the closest to me, but as I said in another thread I got fitted there for some G30s and was so impressed by the service I got I booked some lessons there as well.  You never know, one day they may even let me join.


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 27, 2014)

Can I say I also don't get the lack of love for The Grove that a few people have mentioned. I know it's a new American type setup, and I suppose I played it for free courtesy of GM which may cloud my judgement slightly.  But I thought it was in great condition and there were some great holes, and there should be space for those type of courses in the top 100 and not just it being full of (I'm sure extremely nice) old traditional courses with a big emphasis on links courses.


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## Snelly (Nov 27, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Can I say I also don't get the lack of love for The Grove that a few people have mentioned. I know it's a new American type setup, and I suppose I played it for free courtesy of GM which may cloud my judgement slightly.  But I thought it was in great condition and there were some great holes, and there should be space for those type of courses in the top 100 and not just it being full of (I'm sure extremely nice) old traditional courses with a big emphasis on links courses.
		
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Maybe you would get it if you played a few of the classic links or Surrey sandbelt courses?   I wonder if perhaps, given other posts you have written, the "traditional" clubs would not float your boat anyway? 

I think the Grove is like the Belfry, the Oxfordshire, the Warwickshire, Foxhills, Queenwood, Woburn, Wisley etc.  Not what you would call a proper club.  Just courses where people come and play, lacking in charm, camaraderie and the sense of belonging that you get from established clubs.  It isn't their fault necessarily - you can't buy history - but the Grove is basically a hotel complex plus a course.  Quite nice but very overpriced and not in the same league as lesser known clubs; the West Sussex or Hankley Common for example.


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 27, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Maybe you would get it if you played a few of the classic links or Surrey sandbelt courses?   I wonder if perhaps, given other posts you have written, the "traditional" clubs would not float your boat anyway? 

I think the Grove is like the Belfry, the Oxfordshire, the Warwickshire, Foxhills, Queenwood, Woburn, Wisley etc.  Not what you would call a proper club.  Just courses where people come and play, lacking in charm, camaraderie and the sense of belonging that you get from established clubs.  It isn't their fault necessarily - you can't buy history - but the Grove is basically a hotel complex plus a course.  Quite nice but very overpriced and not in the same league as lesser known clubs; the West Sussex or Hankley Common for example.
		
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I do admit I have not played the Surrey belt but I have played places like The Rosemount, The Hotchkin, Hollinwell Moortown and Sherwood Forest. And I could see why these places are in the Top 100 so I don't think I am biased against them.  

I play all these as a visitor, as I imagine do a lot of people, so things like camaraderie and 'sense of belonging' are very difficult to make a value judgement on unless you take I would argue a slightly blinkered view that you can only experience these at established clubs.  And also one could argue that I have experienced a greater 'sense of belonging' in the way I was treated at the Grove than I have been at many other clubs. Not that I have been treated badly in other places (apart from one or two isolated incidents), but The Grove was certainly one place where I felt welcomed and a valued visitor.  

So I still stand my my comment that if this type of course does what it is doing very well, and it has the track to back it up as you do need a lot more than some very good customer service, then it is worth a place in the top 100.


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## Foxholer (Nov 27, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Maybe you would get it if you played a few of the classic links or Surrey sandbelt courses?   I wonder if perhaps, given other posts you have written, the "traditional" clubs would not float your boat anyway? 

I think the Grove is like the Belfry, the Oxfordshire, the Warwickshire, Foxhills, Queenwood, Woburn, Wisley etc.  Not what you would call a proper club.  Just courses where people come and play, lacking in charm, camaraderie and the sense of belonging that you get from established clubs.  It isn't their fault necessarily - you can't buy history - but the Grove is basically a hotel complex plus a course.  Quite nice but very overpriced and not in the same league as lesser known clubs; the West Sussex or Hankley Common for example.
		
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While I'm inclined to agree with the tone of this, it should be pointed out that the List - and the reason folk visit - is for the Golf Course, not the Golf Club! Resort complexes only need a veneer of the Customer Service, that should be second nature to them, in order to get full marks for 'Welcome etc'. That will almost certainly be slightly different to the 'clubby' one provided by true Golf Clubs. Which style floats your boat more is up to the individual - I'm probably pretty neutral but expect a certain quality from either - but neither should be favoured when compiling a 'Top 100 Colf Courses', as opposed to a 'Top 100 Golf Clubs' imo. 

I do wonder how 'Facilities' are measured for St Andrews Old Course though!


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## pbrown7582 (Nov 27, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			I do wonder how 'Facilities' are measured for St Andrews Old Course though! 

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does the clubhouse 1.5m down the road not count?


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## Val (Nov 27, 2014)

Qwerty said:



			That 10th at Wallasey has tripped me up the both times I've played it.
Good tee shot then under clubbed up the hill both times 
Is there a worse shot in golf, especially when you've hit it well just to see that ball trickling back towards you :rofl:

I don't know the the stroke index but on paper it should be a piece of cake. Good hole though.. A little different and certainly gets you thinking.
		
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SI12 and its a nothing hole 310 yards and 200+ of those are to the dog leg.

I don't ever think ive hit the 10th in regulation, always underclub and the once i did get it half right I was through the back and lost the ball.

Hate the hole, I just need to learn how to play the effin thing :rofl:


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## Val (Nov 27, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			I do wonder how 'Facilities' are measured for St Andrews Old Course though! 

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Ouch, i do get your point


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## Val (Nov 27, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Baaaaa - youse are all sheep.

I think its hard to split them, as I said. Play West Lancs in the summer and judge it then.

It is definitely tougher, of that there is no doubt. Better will be subjective.

Your right Fish, the "club" at Wallasey is a lot better in comparison to WL (their club house looks like Grange Hill), although Wallasey's locker room could do with an upgrade - you didn't build them when the joiners were on strike in the 70's did you? 

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Maybe we'll get an "invite" to play it again 

The locker room although clean and tidy is looking dated but not tired, the shower room is :thup: though.

West Lancs locker room in comparison is streets ahead.


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## Jimaroid (Nov 27, 2014)

Val said:



			Ouch, i do get your point 

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As of this year there is a new pavilion at the 1st tee of the Old Course which acts as a waiting room, cafe and caddy facility for people playing the Old. Staff will also happily ferry you between the public Links clubhouse and the pavilion on buggies. Given the balancing act between the demand for development and preservation of the area, I think they're doing a pretty good job of improving things without harming the mystique.

The only fair criticism I think you can make of the Old Course in its facilities now is that there's no practice range in easy walking range (there is a shuttle bus). But that's a minor gripe in the scheme of things when you're playing the Old. Where else do you get a near constant public gallery waiting for you on the 18th? No other course has that as a feature and it's pretty magical.


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