# Comprehensive Spending Review and Autumn Statement



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 23, 2015)

On Thursday...this will be interesting

Looking forward to hearing Georgie Boy tell us that the pledge of a Â£10Bn surplus by 2020 (that is driving the austerity programme) is no longer essential or quite so critical to the economic welfare of the UK.  And that magically he has been able to put in place measures that will avoid UK economic meltdown and armageddon without it.

Or maybe he'll eat humble pie and say that they got it wrong.

Should be good.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 23, 2015)

Does it actually matter what he says? He could reveal that he has single handedly eliminated IS, discovered a new free fuel to replace petrol and that each family in the UK will get a magic rainbow unicorn that farts out 10 pound notes and some on here would still complain. I can see the responses now....."IS didn't get a fair trial, what about the poor oil companies losing all their revenue and why can't the unicorns fart out 20 pound notes".


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## Astraeus (Nov 23, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			Does it actually matter what he says? He could reveal that he has single handedly eliminated IS, discovered a new free fuel to replace petrol and that each family in the UK will get a magic rainbow unicorn that farts out 10 pound notes and some on here would still complain. I can see the responses now....."IS didn't get a fair trial, what about the poor oil companies losing all their revenue and why can't the unicorns fart out 20 pound notes".
		
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 Distressingly on-point.  You're absolutely right.  Never before have we had an opposition so disposed to pre-judging and dismissing every action of a government.  It is pessimistic, ineffectual politics at its worst.


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## ger147 (Nov 23, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			On Thursday...this will be interesting

Looking forward to hearing Georgie Boy tell us that the pledge of a Â£10Bn surplus by 2020 (that is driving the austerity programme) is no longer essential or quite so critical to the economic welfare of the UK.  And that magically he has been able to put in place measures that will avoid UK economic meltdown and armageddon without it.

Or maybe he'll eat humble pie and say that they got it wrong.

Should be good.
		
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You might want to set your alarm for Wednesday if you don't want to miss it...


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## Rooter (Nov 23, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			magic rainbow unicorn that farts out 10 pound notes
		
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Talk to me!! I want one!!


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## chrisd (Nov 23, 2015)

Rooter said:



			Talk to me!! I want one!!
		
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I've just listed one in the "for sale" section!


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## ger147 (Nov 23, 2015)

chrisd said:



			I've just listed one in the "for sale" section!
		
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What shaft?


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## Rooter (Nov 23, 2015)

ger147 said:



			What shaft?
		
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Probably a female one, so no shaft as standard.


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## ger147 (Nov 23, 2015)

Rooter said:



			Probably a female one, so no shaft as standard.
		
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Female?  I've heard of those but there is never any at the range to try out...


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## Khamelion (Nov 23, 2015)

Wouldn't you get a stiff tapered shaft if you snapped the horn off a unicorn?


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 23, 2015)

Erm, maybe this one needs to get back on track....slightly


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## Imurg (Nov 23, 2015)

chrisd said:



			I've just listed one in the "for sale" section!
		
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Stealing marker pens and cardboard tubes from Staples then redecorating the dog isn't gonna work Mate........


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2015)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Erm, maybe this one needs to get back on track....slightly 

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Are you saying unicorns won't be involved in the Chancellors statement


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## Old Skier (Nov 23, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are you saying unicorns won't be involved in the Chancellors statement 

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It will be a fairy tale so there's a chance.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 23, 2015)

chrisd said:



			I've just listed one in the "for sale" section!
		
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I'm waiting till the New Year that's when rumours say the twenty pounds one might be available&#128515;


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 23, 2015)

ger147 said:



			You might want to set your alarm for Wednesday if you don't want to miss it...
		
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I'll be listening Wednesday also...:thup:


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## ger147 (Nov 23, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I'll be listening Wednesday also...:thup:
		
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The statement is on Wednesday straight after PMQ's.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 23, 2015)

Rooter said:



			Talk to me!! I want one!!
		
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No problem. All you need to do is send me your bank details, and your credit card details and I will send you your unicorn. As a show of faith I have added a recently taken photograph of the unicorn in the wild so that you know the offer is genuine........




P.S. Sorry Phil but I promise to get back on track really, really soon.


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## ger147 (Nov 23, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			No problem. All you need to do is send me your bank details, and your credit card details and I will send you your unicorn. As a show of faith I have added a recently taken photograph of the unicorn in the wild so that you know the offer is genuine........

View attachment 17687

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Put me down for 2, will get you the cash as soon as the Crown Prince of Nigeria deposits the Â£2.3m in my account like he promised.


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## Ethan (Nov 23, 2015)

Astraeus said:



			Distressingly on-point.  You're absolutely right.  Never before have we had an opposition so disposed to pre-judging and dismissing every action of a government.  It is pessimistic, ineffectual politics at its worst.
		
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You have got to be kidding. 

Osborne is on an ideological crusade to reduce the size of government, when all the world's sensible economists are telling him it is strangling the economy. And promising a 7 day NHS to prevent some probably unavoidable deaths when they can't even pay for the current version. 

The future of the NHS, the welfare state and the economy under Osborne is cause for plenty of pessimism.


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## chrisd (Nov 23, 2015)

Imurg said:



			Stealing marker pens and cardboard tubes from Staples then redecorating the dog isn't gonna work Mate........
		
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I think it will with some of the eejits on here!   :lol:


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## Hobbit (Nov 23, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are you saying unicorns won't be involved in the Chancellors statement 

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Eunuchs maybe but no unicorns.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 23, 2015)

chrisd said:



			I think it will with some of the eejits on here!   :lol:
		
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Oooh, do you get a free eejit if you order one? I'm in if you do&#128515;


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 23, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			Does it actually matter what he says? He could reveal that he has single handedly eliminated IS, discovered a new free fuel to replace petrol and that each family in the UK will get a magic rainbow unicorn that farts out 10 pound notes and some on here would still complain. I can see the responses now....."IS didn't get a fair trial, what about the poor oil companies losing all their revenue and why can't the unicorns fart out 20 pound notes".
		
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Astraeus said:



			Distressingly on-point.  You're absolutely right.  Never before have we had an opposition so disposed to pre-judging and dismissing every action of a government.  It is pessimistic, ineffectual politics at its worst.
		
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Simple and accurate. Also depressing in its own way


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## Break90 (Nov 23, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			I'm waiting till the New Year that's when rumours say the twenty pounds one might be available&#62979;
		
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Got an email today from Tesco, they have a limited supply being released in store on Black Friday, but you may have to physically assault a chav to get one


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2015)

Seems good news for Scotland's ship building industry 

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/government-confirm-13-frigates-will-be-built-in-scotland/


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 24, 2015)

Ethan said:



			You have got to be kidding. 

Osborne is on an ideological crusade to reduce the size of government, when all the world's sensible economists are telling him it is strangling the economy. And promising a 7 day NHS to prevent some probably unavoidable deaths when they can't even pay for the current version. 

The future of the NHS, the welfare state and the economy under Osborne is cause for plenty of pessimism.
		
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..and if Hunt and Osborne think that the Junior Doctors are being a pain in the backside over the 7-day NHS - just wait until they try imposing it on the radiographers - they will create merry hell   And then there are all the other professions and groups of NHS workings they will have to tackle - if they have any will to live after the radiographers.,


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## Ethan (Nov 24, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			..and if Hunt and Osborne think that the Junior Doctors are being a pain in the backside over the 7-day NHS - just wait until they try imposing it on the radiographers - they will create merry hell   And then there are all the other professions and groups of NHS workings they will have to tackle - if they have any will to live after the radiographers.,
		
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Needless to say, neither really want a 7 day NHS. That would cost tens of billions a year to be done properly. 

The real agenda is described here: http://koshh.org/the-connection-bet...nd-the-american-corporate-takeover-of-the-nhs


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## Old Skier (Nov 25, 2015)

Ethan said:



			Needless to say, neither really want a 7 day NHS. That would cost tens of billions a year to be done properly. 

The real agenda is described here: http://koshh.org/the-connection-bet...nd-the-american-corporate-takeover-of-the-nhs

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We have fresh figures today over the level of deaths in the NHS over the weekend period. This time infant mortality. How without a 7 day NHS can we rectify this?


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 25, 2015)

I didn't get to hear the speech. Any news on the unicorns?


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## Rooter (Nov 25, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			I didn't get to hear the speech. Any news on the unicorns?
		
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They have had to scrap the Unicorn plan due to excessive costs of bombing Syria and housing refugees/immigrants. There will be full write up in tomorrows daily mail.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 25, 2015)

George has bottled it on tax credits and scrapped scrapping them. That is a major u-turn. Whether you agree with it or not if you put forward a controversial policy then you have to have conviction in it and stick to your guns. To collapse completely is spineless and a major blow to his aspiration of replacing DC.


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## doublebogey7 (Nov 25, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			We have fresh figures today over the level of deaths in the NHS over the weekend period. This time infant mortality. How without a 7 day NHS can we rectify this?
		
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But that research indicated that staffing levels were not likely to be the cause of the additional death rates.  Thursday actually had the highest mortality rates.


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## Old Skier (Nov 25, 2015)

So the higher mortality figures fed to us by the media is all smoke and mirrors and patience admitted at weekends will see the same high quality staff in the same time frame as those admitted during the week. Good to know.


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## Rooter (Nov 25, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			George has bottled it on tax credits and scrapped scrapping them. That is a major u-turn. Whether you agree with it or not if you put forward a controversial policy then you have to have conviction in it and stick to your guns. To collapse completely is spineless and a major blow to his aspiration of replacing DC.
		
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Or maybe he listed to the people, had a review of the policy and decided the people were right? I would say only a fool would have conviction to stick to his guns when everyone is telling you not to.. but i know nowt about politics!


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 25, 2015)

If you are going to put forward a policy that you know is controversial then you run through it behind the scenes over and over again, you refine it. You test the waters a little by actually speaking to people, interested bodies. Then when you are sure you announce it, and stick to it. What he is doing now should have been discussed and resolved behind the scenes before the policy was announced. Doing a complete U turn shows a lack of conviction, a lack of preparation and frankly weakness. He should not have got into this mess.


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## Old Skier (Nov 25, 2015)

Today's politicians react rather than act. He didn't have the courage of his convictions No chance of moving to the next step.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 25, 2015)

Pretty massive U turn on a high profile bill.
I wonder if Gideon will recover from this loss of credibility.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 25, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If you are going to put forward a policy that you know is controversial then you run through it behind the scenes over and over again, you refine it. You test the waters a little by actually speaking to people, interested bodies. Then when you are sure you announce it, and stick to it. What he is doing now should have been discussed and resolved behind the scenes before the policy was announced. Doing a complete U turn shows a lack of conviction, a lack of preparation and frankly weakness. He should not have got into this mess.
		
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Agree - just makes it seem like he didn't care enough to bother.


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## jp5 (Nov 25, 2015)

The sad state of affairs means that George can do whatever he wants the next 5 years and will still walk into #10 come 2020!

Think today's uturn will have had 0 impact on his credibility.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 25, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			George has bottled it on tax credits and scrapped scrapping them. That is a major u-turn.
		
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Doon frae Troon said:



			Pretty massive U turn on a high profile bill.
I wonder if Gideon will recover from this loss of credibility.
		
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SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Agree - just makes it seem like he didn't care enough to bother.
		
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Which just goes to prove that no matter what he does there will always be some on here and in public that are looking for a reason to have a pop at him. If he had stuck to his policy to push through the tax credit cuts there would have been howls of outrage from the very same people that are now slagging him for making a U turn. You only have to look at some of the comments on the "Reform of the Tax Credits" thread. He was getting slated on there for pushing ahead with it and now is getting slated on here for not pushing ahead with it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 25, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Agree - just makes it seem like he didn't care enough to bother.
		
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You criticised him for changing the tax credits to the point you started a thread on it 

And now you appear to slate him for changing his mind and not going through with the changes ?!?


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## bluewolf (Nov 25, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			Which just goes to prove that no matter what he does there will always be some on here and in public that are looking for a reason to have a pop at him. If he had stuck to his policy to push through the tax credit cuts there would have been howls of outrage from the very same people that are now slagging him for making a U turn. You only have to look at some of the comments on the "Reform of the Tax Credits" thread. He was getting slated on there for pushing ahead with it and now is getting slated on here for not pushing ahead with it.
		
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Of course, the same could be said for just about every leading politician in the UK for the past 40 years. People are partisan and will look for any excuse to criticise someone they don't like, whatever side of the political spectrum. 

Besides, the cuts are still coming. They've just been delayed for a few years until the Universal Credit is introduced. All he has done is provide a "lead story" that the media organisations can latch onto, whilst missing some of the real juice that is now hidden from view. The removal of grants from Nurse training being a major one.


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## Astraeus (Nov 25, 2015)

3% stamp duty on second properties.  THREE BLOODY PERCENT?

I bet the BTLers are quaking in their boots at the least effective tax increase on earth, ever


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## Hobbit (Nov 25, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Agree - just makes it seem like he didn't care enough to bother.
		
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http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?80860-Manifestos-Mandates-and-Mendacity

Or he did listen to people... above link is the thread you started on the 4th Nov... watch you don't hurt yourself with that petard.


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## Ethan (Nov 26, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			We have fresh figures today over the level of deaths in the NHS over the weekend period. This time infant mortality. How without a 7 day NHS can we rectify this?
		
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I see you just read the Daily Mail headline. If you actually read down, the authors say there was no relationship between staffing and outcomes. Funny enough, the authors of the other 7 day outcome study said the same. Jeremy Hunt chose to ignore both. 

What they did was what is known in stats as data dredging. In short, if you look at enough different data points, some of them will show something. They ignore others which show that certain outcomes are improved at the weekend. They also obscured the differences between different weekdays as those undermine the theory.  

Even if it was true that there was a weekend effect, it is completely unclear what the cause is, and how to rectify it without simply moving it to another part of the week. to properly make a 7 day NHS so that Sunday has the same cover as Tuesday, would cost Â£20 billion a year. The promise of a 7 day NHS is a sham and a con, really intended to set things up better for private companies who want to sweat the assets.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 26, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			Which just goes to prove that no matter what he does there will always be some on here and in public that are looking for a reason to have a pop at him. If he had stuck to his policy to push through the tax credit cuts there would have been howls of outrage from the very same people that are now slagging him for making a U turn. You only have to look at some of the comments on the "Reform of the Tax Credits" thread. He was getting slated on there for pushing ahead with it and now is getting slated on here for not pushing ahead with it.
		
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Sorry but I miss your point completely.
I was just pointing out the bleeding obvious not 'slagging him off'.

As for having a 'pop at him'. 
His bill was widely criticised, even by members of his own party. Ruth Davidson told him he was making a big mistake.
Do you include the leader of the Scottish Conservatives in your summary?


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 26, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Sorry but I miss your point completely.
I was just pointing out the bleeding obvious not 'slagging him off'.

As for having a 'pop at him'. 
His bill was widely criticised, even by members of his own party. Ruth Davidson told him he was making a big mistake.
Do you include the leader of the Scottish Conservatives in your summary?
		
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Your choice of wording made it obvious what you were doing.  "Massive u-turn" and "recover from this loss of credibility". How about "I can't believe we have a politician that is willing to listen to criticism and then accept he was wrong and change the plans. Fair play to him for being man enough to accept he was wrong"

As for Ruth Davidson perhaps you can provide  link to where she has been crowing about a massive u turn or loss of credibility. 

I look forward to your response once Wings over Scotland has told you what you should be thinking.


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 26, 2015)

Ethan said:



			I see you just read the Daily Mail headline. If you actually read down, the authors say there was no relationship between staffing and outcomes. Funny enough, the authors of the other 7 day outcome study said the same. Jeremy Hunt chose to ignore both. 

What they did was what is known in stats as data dredging. In short, if you look at enough different data points, some of them will show something. They ignore others which show that certain outcomes are improved at the weekend. They also obscured the differences between different weekdays as those undermine the theory.  

Even if it was true that there was a weekend effect, it is completely unclear what the cause is, and how to rectify it without simply moving it to another part of the week. to properly make a 7 day NHS so that Sunday has the same cover as Tuesday, would cost Â£20 billion a year. The promise of a 7 day NHS is a sham and a con, really intended to set things up better for private companies who want to sweat the assets.
		
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OK, calm down Dr Ben Goldacre with your sensible analysis of newspapers completely misinterpreting statistics in medical stories


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 26, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			Your choice of wording made it obvious what you were doing.  "Massive u-turn" and "recover from this loss of credibility". How about "I can't believe we have a politician that is willing to listen to criticism and then accept he was wrong and change the plans. Fair play to him for being man enough to accept he was wrong"

As for Ruth Davidson perhaps you can provide  link to where she has been crowing about a massive u turn or loss of credibility. 

I look forward to your response once Wings over Scotland has told you what you should be thinking.
		
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You sound very bitter that the Chancellor was unable to put many 'hardworking families' into serious poverty.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			You sound very bitter that the Chancellor was unable to put many 'hardworking families' into serious poverty.
		
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Where exactly are you getting that sort of judgement from ?

I noticed you are silent about the money being invested into Scottish ship building from the uk government - is that because wings can't find anything negative about it ?


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 26, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			You sound very bitter that the Chancellor was unable to put many 'hardworking families' into serious poverty.
		
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Not at all. Even as someone with right of centre views I thought it was a bad policy and am glad that it has been reversed. I agree with the aims of the policy which was to move to a higher wage society and remove some of the burden from the tax payer but I don't think the way it was planned to be done was right.

As soon as the policy was announced it was a win/win situation for people like you. If they have gone ahead with it we would have had the usual howls of the nasty Tory party hurting the poorest in society. Now that it's been scrapped instead of applauding the correct decision being made you can use your usual anti English and anti Tory views to shout about a u turn and loss of credibility. 

You give credence to the suggestion that a well balanced Scotsman is one with a chip on both shoulders.


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## bluewolf (Nov 26, 2015)

We do all appreciate that the cuts haven't been scrapped, don't we? They've merely been delayed for a couple of years till the Universal Credit is introduced. Not scrapped. Delayed....


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## Hobbit (Nov 26, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			We do all appreciate that the cuts haven't been scrapped, don't we? They've merely been delayed for a couple of years till the Universal Credit is introduced. Not scrapped. Delayed....
		
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Or changed to a different benefit?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 26, 2015)

Rooter said:



			Or maybe he listed to the people, had a review of the policy and decided the people were right? I would say only a fool would have conviction to stick to his guns when everyone is telling you not to.. but i know nowt about politics!
		
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This huge U-turn is nothing to do with listening - if he'd had his way the measures for cutting tax credits would be on their way through the Commons and he wouldn't have stopped them.  He has been lucky and been throw a lifeline with the OBRs forecast.  It's only delaying the pain in any case - that will come in on the back of Universal Credit.  He never did have to bring in the changes to Tax Credits in the time scales - he just chose to.  

Osborne is all over the place - being blown this way and that by the wind of public opinion and the most recent economic forecast.  Pretends that his measures to NOT cut police funding is defending the police when it was HE who was going to be attacking their budget.  And he puts on his 'I'm in control' facade.  

And don't the Tories really know how to attract young folk into nursing - not. They want a 7-day NHS and so will need a lot more nurses - and so they cancel payment of nursing degree fees and maintenance and convert that all to loans - and at the same time clamp down on nurses from overseas.

He's clueless.  He's a joke.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			This huge U-turn is nothing to do with listening - if he'd had his way the measures for cutting tax credits would be on their way through the Commons and he wouldn't have stopped them.  He has been lucky and been throw a lifeline with the OBRs forecast.  It's only delaying the pain in any case - that will come in on the back of Universal Credit.  He never did have to bring in the changes to Tax Credits in the time scales - he just chose to.  

Osborne is all over the place - being blown this way and that by the wind of public opinion and the most recent economic forecast.  Pretends that his measures to NOT cut police funding is defending the police when it was HE who was going to be attacking their budget.  And he puts on his 'I'm in control' facade.  

And don't the Tories really know how to attract young folk into nursing - not. They want a 7-day NHS and so will need a lot more nurses - and so they cancel payment of nursing degree fees and maintenance and convert that all to loans - and at the same time clamp down on nurses from overseas.

He's clueless.  He's a joke.
		
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So you slagged him off when he put forward and idea to cut tax credits 

And now you continue to slag him off despite the tax credits not being changed right now 

Seems doesn't matter what he does you will slag him off


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## Hobbit (Nov 26, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So you slagged him off when he put forward and idea to cut tax credits 

And now you continue to slag him off despite the tax credits not being changed right now 

Seems doesn't matter what he does you will slag him off
		
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I didn't even bother replying. Some that wear the red rosette will vote red whatever...


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 26, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			I didn't even bother replying. Some that wear the red rosette will vote red whatever...
		
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And those that wear blue rosettes..................actually might vote UKIP instead.

I think that kind of sums up the slight pointlessness of these kind of arguments in threads like this as they are much like the phone in on 5 live where you get 2 people with completely opposing views who will never agree in a month of Sundays.  No matter how tenuous their argument is at that point in time, either way.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 26, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So you slagged him off when he put forward and idea to cut tax credits 

And now you continue to slag him off despite the tax credits not being changed right now 

Seems doesn't matter what he does you will slag him off
		
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Not slagging him off for making his U-turn on the policy - but it's not a U-turn of his own doing.  He would have known exactly what impact the tax credit changes would have had on the lower paid - pretending otherwise is disingenuous (at best) - and the changes would have be well on there way to being implemented if he had got his way.  But thankfully he didn;t and he has been forced into the U-turn.  Even although they'll still come in in 2017 under UC.  If he was *really *listening to the concerns over the impact the changes would have had he'll say he'll change his plans for UC that will completely remove the impact on the lower paid.  But he won't.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 26, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			Not at all. Even as someone with right of centre views I thought it was a bad policy and am glad that it has been reversed. I agree with the aims of the policy which was to move to a higher wage society and remove some of the burden from the tax payer but I don't think the way it was planned to be done was right.

As soon as the policy was announced it was a win/win situation for people like you. If they have gone ahead with it we would have had the usual howls of the nasty Tory party hurting the poorest in society. Now that it's been scrapped instead of applauding the correct decision being made you can use your usual anti English and anti Tory views to shout about a u turn and loss of credibility. 

You give credence to the suggestion that a well balanced Scotsman is one with a chip on both shoulders.
		
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Completely agree with you on first paragraph. Once again the Tories come up with a good idea but are completely clueless about how to implement it in a fair and just manner [Poll Tax etc]

Disagree on second para.

Third para is just you being lazily rude [again]


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 26, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Where exactly are you getting that sort of judgement from ?

I noticed you are silent about the money being invested into Scottish ship building from the uk government - is that because wings can't find anything negative about it ?
		
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The ships were nothing more than what was promised two years ago........should we be thankful for the Government for keeping it's word? 
Are the Midlands thankful that HS2 is still going ahead?


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## Hobbit (Nov 26, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			I didn't even bother replying. Some that wear the red rosette will vote red whatever...
		
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Hacker Khan said:



			And those that wear blue rosettes..................actually might vote UKIP instead.
.
		
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And some of us who've voted in a number of elections down the years might have voted for Lab/Con/Lib depending on their manifesto's at that time. Some of us have even knitted with yoghurt in the past.... providing it was strawberry flavour.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 26, 2015)

Pretty sure I have voted for all or the parties apart from the Liberals.:lol:

Pete Wishart on QT tonight, could be fun.
At least he will bring a lot more intellect to the panel if last weeks efforts by Anna Sourby and Andy Burnham were benchmarks.


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## Old Skier (Nov 26, 2015)

Ethan said:



			I see you just read the Daily Mail headline.
		
Click to expand...

Unlike you I don't read the Daily Mail, I do however get the Mail on Sunday as I like the sports supplement.

It was a BBC headline.


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 26, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			And some of us who've voted in a number of elections down the years might have voted for Lab/Con/Lib depending on their manifesto's at that time. *Some of us have even knitted with yoghurt in the past.... providing it was strawberry flavour*.
		
Click to expand...

Well that's where you went wrong.  You should have had a nice Madagascan vanilla flavoured yoghurt and you might have stuck with it.


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## Hobbit (Nov 26, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Well that's where you went wrong.  You should have had a nice Madagascan vanilla flavoured yoghurt and you might have stuck with it. 

Click to expand...

Sorry HK, I'm not a posh northerner. It's Lidl strawberry flavour or nowt. :ears:


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 26, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Pretty sure I have voted for all or the parties apart from the Liberals.:lol:

Pete Wishart on QT tonight, could be fun.
At least he will bring a lot more intellect to the panel if last weeks efforts by Anna Sourby and Andy Burnham were benchmarks.
		
Click to expand...

Honest to God - Anna Soubry last week...and Andy Burnham wasn't much better - but Anna Soubry...


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 26, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Honest to God - Anna Soubry last week...and Andy Burnham wasn't much better - but Anna Soubry...

Click to expand...

You should try having her as your MP


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## hors limite (Nov 27, 2015)

The truth about tax credits

This link provides a nuts and bolts analysis of the tax credits system. I'll leave you all to decide whether the system is fit for purpose or whether it is completely or partially barmy and unaffordable.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 27, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			You sound very bitter that the Chancellor was unable to put many 'hardworking families' into serious poverty.
		
Click to expand...




hors limite said:



The truth about tax credits

This link provides a nuts and bolts analysis of the tax credits system. I'll leave you all to decide whether the system is fit for purpose or whether it is completely or partially barmy and unaffordable.
		
Click to expand...

I have no way of knowing if those figures are correct but if they are I hope these examples are not the "hard working families" that were going to be put into "serious poverty" by losing Â£1600 per year. 

If true I find it incredible that due to the different benefits available a family with 3 kids and one parent working 24 hours a week can "earn" the equivalent of over Â£40k year. Where is the incentive for people to work full time when they would be worse off?



[TABLE="class: basic-table-small, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TH="class: bth, align: center"][/TH]
[TH="class: bth, colspan: 4, align: center"]One parent working for 24 hours a week on Â£7 an hour[/TH]
[TH="class: bth, colspan: 4, align: center"]Two parents each working 35 hours a week on Â£7 an hour[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="class: normrow"]
[TD="class: btleft"]*Number of children*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*0*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*2*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*3*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*5*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*0*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*2*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*3*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*5*[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: altrow"]
[TD="class: btleft"]*Gross pay*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£8,700[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£8,700[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£8,700[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£8,700[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£25,382[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£25,382[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£25,382[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£25,382[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: normrow"]
[TD="class: btleft"]*Take-home pay after NI*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£8,623[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£8,623[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£8,623[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£8,623[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£23,434[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£23,434[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£23,434[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£23,434[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: altrow"]
[TD="class: btleft"]*Tax credits*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£0[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£9,114.06[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£11,930.10[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£17,458.86[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£0[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£3,023.82[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£5,805.42[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£11,368.62[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: normrow"]
[TD="class: btleft"]*Council Tax help*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£492.19[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£432.91[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£685.33[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£753.38[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£0[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£0[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£0[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: altrow"]
[TD="class: btleft"]*Housing Benefit*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£6,706.26[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£6,472.35[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£6,950.00[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£7,831.89[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£0[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£795.98[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£1,249.16[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£2,155.52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: normrow"]
[TD="class: btleft"]*Child Benefit*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£0[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£1,788.80[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£2,501.20[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£3,926.00[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£0[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£1,788.80[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£2,501.20[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£3,926.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: altrow"]
[TD="class: btleft"]*Total benefits*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£7,198.45[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£17,813.12[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£22,067.63[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£29,970.13[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£0[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£5,608.60[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£9,555.78[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£17,450.14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: normrow"]
[TD="class: btleft"]*Total net income*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£15,821.45[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£26,436.12[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£30,690.53[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£38,593.13[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£23,434.00[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£29,042.60[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£32,989.78[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£40,884.14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: altrow"]
[TD="class: btleft"]*Equivalent pre-tax income *[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*Â£18,750.00*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*Â£34,500.00*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*Â£40,500.00*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*Â£54,000.00*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*Â£25,382*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*Â£33,600*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*Â£39,500*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*Â£51,000*[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Nov 27, 2015)

They seem to be correct but the whole issue is not black and white.
The lady supporting the child with special needs on question time last night hit the nail on the head.
Lots of welfare support for people who need it the most is being drastically reduced.

Much fairer targets IMO would be well off pensioners receiving benefits.
That could quite easily be sorted by tax code.

Totally agree that the child welfare structure needs reducing but it appears that the 'average' earning families will be hit hardest whilst the well off will not be touched.
I suppose the 'average' families are where the largest numbers are but they could at least try to make it look fair.


----------



## hors limite (Nov 27, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			They seem to be correct but the whole issue is not black and white.
The lady supporting the child with special needs on question time last night hit the nail on the head.
Lots of welfare support for people who need it the most is being drastically reduced.

Much fairer targets IMO would be well off pensioners receiving benefits.
That could quite easily be sorted by tax code.

Totally agree that the child welfare structure needs reducing but it appears that the 'average' earning families will be hit hardest whilst the well off will not be touched.
I suppose the 'average' families are where the largest numbers are but they could at least try to make it look fair.
		
Click to expand...

Don't understand the reference to well off pensioners and tax code. Aren't the only tax free allowances for pensioners winter fuel and TV licences which together add up to c5bn pounds. If you made these allowances taxable and assuming { a very big assumption} that all pensioners pay tax, the maximum that would bring in would be 1 bn pounds. In reality ' I don't think it would bring in half that.

Having said that I quite agree that those benefits SHOULD be taxable.

However, the illustration of the tax credit shows a system that demands reform.

Finally, don't forget that the the top 20% of earners pay 80% of income tax - they do seem to be chipping in!


----------



## Old Skier (Nov 27, 2015)

Never let facts get in the way of left wing politics


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Nov 27, 2015)

hors limite said:



			Don't understand the reference to well off pensioners and tax code. Aren't the only tax free allowances for pensioners winter fuel and TV licences which together add up to c5bn pounds. If you made these allowances taxable and assuming { a very big assumption} that all pensioners pay tax, the maximum that would bring in would be 1 bn pounds. In reality ' I don't think it would bring in half that.

Having said that I quite agree that those benefits SHOULD be taxable.

However, the illustration of the tax credit shows a system that demands reform.

Finally, don't forget that the the top 20% of earners pay 80% of income tax - they do seem to be chipping in!
		
Click to expand...

To clarify I meant to scrap the benefits, heating and bus pass [TV is covered by BBC now] for OAP's above a determined tax rating.
I know that is not a huge sum but it would be a fairer solution.

Re the top level tax earners. the richer 20% will then be gaining an advantage whilst most of the poorer majority take a hit. Not all in it together eh.

It only needs a wee hiccup in the system for the Chancellors 'new plan' to fall apart. Analysts estimate his chances of hitting Â£27 billion by 2020 as 50/50.
He seems to be the one who has produced the Â£20 farting Unicorn.:lol:


----------



## Hobbit (Nov 27, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			They seem to be correct but the whole issue is not black and white.
The lady supporting the child with special needs on question time last night hit the nail on the head.
Lots of welfare support for people who need it the most is being drastically reduced.

Much fairer targets IMO would be well off pensioners receiving benefits.
That could quite easily be sorted by tax code.

Totally agree that the child welfare structure needs reducing but it appears that the 'average' earning families will be hit hardest whilst the well off will not be touched.
I suppose the 'average' families are where the largest numbers are but they could at least try to make it look fair.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely! Can't believe I'm agreeing with you! And its not just the well off pensioners. I have a colleague on a damn good wage, and a wifey with a good wage, who is complaining about the loss of tax credits. And then there's the company car and expense account. They holiday'd in the Caribbean last year. Why on earth are they getting tax credits???????

I don't doubt for one second that there are people at that bottom end that need looking after but what about sorting out 1,000's(at least) of people that earn enough to go to the Caribbean but get tax credits?

And... madness...!!! the guy has gone and bought a Subaru Imprezza as toy, and he's got a paid for Passat, whilst on tax credits.... good old Gordon Brown. What a legacy of  XXXXX he's left.


----------



## hors limite (Nov 27, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			I have no way of knowing if those figures are correct but if they are I hope these examples are not the "hard working families" that were going to be put into "serious poverty" by losing Â£1600 per year. 

If true I find it incredible that due to the different benefits available a family with 3 kids and one parent working 24 hours a week can "earn" the equivalent of over Â£40k year. Where is the incentive for people to work full time when they would be worse off?




[TABLE="class: basic-table-small, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TH="class: bth, align: center"][/TH]
[TH="class: bth, colspan: 4, align: center"]One parent working for 24 hours a week on Â£7 an hour[/TH]
[TH="class: bth, colspan: 4, align: center"]Two parents each working 35 hours a week on Â£7 an hour[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="class: normrow"]
[TD="class: btleft"]*Number of children*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*0*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*2*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*3*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*5*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*0*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*2*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*3*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*5*[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: altrow"]
[TD="class: btleft"]*Gross pay*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£8,700[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£8,700[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£8,700[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£8,700[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£25,382[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£25,382[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£25,382[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£25,382[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: normrow"]
[TD="class: btleft"]*Take-home pay after NI*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£8,623[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£8,623[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£8,623[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£8,623[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£23,434[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£23,434[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£23,434[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£23,434[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: altrow"]
[TD="class: btleft"]*Tax credits*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£0[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£9,114.06[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£11,930.10[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£17,458.86[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£0[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£3,023.82[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£5,805.42[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£11,368.62[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: normrow"]
[TD="class: btleft"]*Council Tax help*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£492.19[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£432.91[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£685.33[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£753.38[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£0[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£0[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£0[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: altrow"]
[TD="class: btleft"]*Housing Benefit*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£6,706.26[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£6,472.35[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£6,950.00[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£7,831.89[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£0[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£795.98[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£1,249.16[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£2,155.52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: normrow"]
[TD="class: btleft"]*Child Benefit*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£0[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£1,788.80[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£2,501.20[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£3,926.00[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£0[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£1,788.80[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£2,501.20[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£3,926.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: altrow"]
[TD="class: btleft"]*Total benefits*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£7,198.45[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£17,813.12[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£22,067.63[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£29,970.13[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£0[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£5,608.60[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£9,555.78[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£17,450.14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: normrow"]
[TD="class: btleft"]*Total net income*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£15,821.45[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£26,436.12[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£30,690.53[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£38,593.13[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£23,434.00[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£29,042.60[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£32,989.78[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]Â£40,884.14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: altrow"]
[TD="class: btleft"]*Equivalent pre-tax income *[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*Â£18,750.00*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*Â£34,500.00*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*Â£40,500.00*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*Â£54,000.00*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*Â£25,382*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*Â£33,600*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*Â£39,500*[/TD]
[TD="class: btcenter, align: center"]*Â£51,000*[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
		
Click to expand...

Swingsitlikehogan has gone blooming quiet has have a few other Corbynistas!


----------

