# Old Tom RA91 Driver - new company / start-up



## Grant85 (Jan 15, 2019)

It seems like a budding entrepreneur has designed and is having manufactured, his own driver - the Old Tom RA91. 

Old Tom

Looks like 3 reviews on Youtube with golf pros and looks decent. In the case of the James Robinson review, he has it up against his own club that is specd for him. 
There's another one where the Old Tom looks comfortably better (in this guys hands) than a Callaway Rogue. 
Reviews are right at the bottom of his web page. 

Current price is coming in at Â£130 with a pre-sale (delivery not expected until March). 

Personally love the look of this - the styling in particular suits my eye - and really hope it gets off the ground. I think a lot of  us become completely pre-occupied with the equipment and not only having the right equipment, but having the perfect equipment. In reality, the gains are often marginal and there is a big law of diminishing returns that comes into play when you spend Â£400 compared with Â£200 on new stuff. 

So would you rather spend Â£200 on a driver and Â£200 on lessons OR Â£400 on a Driver?


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## Orikoru (Jan 15, 2019)

Pretty simple, classic design in terms of looks. Is the X on the face not a bit of a rip-off of the Callaway X Hot 2? Might have a copyright issue there, I'm not sure.


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## Grant85 (Jan 15, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Pretty simple, classic design in terms of looks. Is the X on the face not a bit of a rip-off of the Callaway X Hot 2? Might have a copyright issue there, I'm not sure.
		
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I think it looks sufficiently different tbh - can't imagine there would be an issue.


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## garyinderry (Jan 15, 2019)

I like it apart from the writing of old tom on the crown.  Should have put an x there for simplicity.


Other than that it looks tidy.


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## Crow (Jan 15, 2019)

A length of 45.75" seems a bit excessive, or is that the norm these days?


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## BTatHome (Jan 15, 2019)

Have been watching since he first launched. The price has gone up and down, from Â£100 to Â£200, changing every few weeks. 
Not much info about the shaft being used, except its specific for this club, has no manufacturer markings and little in the way of details. 

For the price I'm not sure it would be too different to an older club from one of the major manufacturers (except your unlikely to be able to sell this one second hand for anything close to purchase price)


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## HankMarvin (Jan 15, 2019)

BTatHome said:



			Have been watching since he first launched. The price has gone up and down, from Â£100 to Â£200, changing every few weeks. 
Not much info about the shaft being used, except its specific for this club, has no manufacturer markings and little in the way of details. 

For the price I'm not sure it would be too different to an older club from one of the major manufacturers (except your unlikely to be able to sell this one second hand for anything close to purchase price)
		
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This sums it up for me, no way I would spend money on this club.


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## Bxm Foxy (Jan 15, 2019)

Nice looking driver. Would need a hit first, feel the same with the BombTech driver too. I do use an old driver, Ping G20, got it about 2 years ago. Looking at the Rich Shiels reviews of Ping drivers, I'm not sure they've improved much really over 5 to 6 years.


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## Grant85 (Jan 15, 2019)

Personally I think a lot of the new clubs have plateaued massively in terms of what they can do for the average hitters.

If you are fast and accurate, you can get a bit more out of a low spinning driver (however these are certainly not new any more).

But if you're a handicap golfer with average numbers, a new driver might be a bit more forgiving or help slightly with a draw bias or fade bias (maybe), but lets be honest - no one with a 100mph swing speed is suddenly bombing it with a new driver, compared with one a few generations ago.

As Bxm Foxy says - Rick Shiels looks to be getting very similar numbers for the Ping G and G400, if anything slightly shorter with the G400. These were released in Feb 2016 and 2017 respectively and Ping haven't updated their range since 2017 (albeit may be planning something this year).

This seems to suggest that club development has plateaued and I would question the logic / sanity in spending Â£450 on a brand new driver if you are looking purely for the tech and expecting to really make substantial gains.

I'm approaching this from the point of having the wrong kind of driver (SLDR) for my game (albeit I can hit it ok) and a Ping G or G400 is going to cost me Â£230 to Â£340.


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## Orikoru (Jan 15, 2019)

Grant85 said:



			Personally I think a lot of the new clubs have plateaued massively in terms of what they can do for the average hitters.

If you are fast and accurate, you can get a bit more out of a low spinning driver (however these are certainly not new any more).

But if you're a handicap golfer with average numbers, a new driver might be a bit more forgiving or help slightly with a draw bias or fade bias (maybe), but lets be honest - no one with a 100mph swing speed is suddenly bombing it with a new driver, compared with one a few generations ago.

As Bxm Foxy says - Rick Shiels looks to be getting very similar numbers for the Ping G and G400, if anything slightly shorter with the G400. These were released in Feb 2016 and 2017 respectively and Ping haven't updated their range since 2017 (albeit may be planning something this year).

This seems to suggest that club development has plateaued and I would question the logic / sanity in spending Â£450 on a brand new driver if you are looking purely for the tech and expecting to really make substantial gains.

I'm approaching this from the point of having the wrong kind of driver (SLDR) for my game (albeit I can hit it ok) and a Ping G or G400 is going to cost me Â£230 to Â£340.
		
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Is the G30 driver much different to the G? I got my G30 SF Tec for only Â£100 second hand.

As others have said above, if you buy this Old Tom thing, the resale value is through the floor, as opposed to getting a Ping or something where you'll never struggle to sell it when you come to upgrade. And is this one likely to be any better than a Ping from 3, 4 years ago?


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## Coffey (Jan 15, 2019)

Grant85 said:



			Personally I think a lot of the new clubs have plateaued massively in terms of what they can do for the average hitters.

If you are fast and accurate, you can get a bit more out of a low spinning driver (however these are certainly not new any more).

But if you're a handicap golfer with average numbers, a new driver might be a bit more forgiving or help slightly with a draw bias or fade bias (maybe), but lets be honest - no one with a 100mph swing speed is suddenly bombing it with a new driver, compared with one a few generations ago.

As Bxm Foxy says - Rick Shiels looks to be getting very similar numbers for the Ping G and G400, if anything slightly shorter with the G400. These were released in Feb 2016 and 2017 respectively and Ping haven't updated their range since 2017 (albeit may be planning something this year).

This seems to suggest that club development has plateaued and I would question the logic / sanity in spending Â£450 on a brand new driver if you are looking purely for the tech and expecting to really make substantial gains.

I'm approaching this from the point of having the wrong kind of driver (SLDR) for my game (albeit I can hit it ok) and a Ping G or G400 is going to cost me Â£230 to Â£340.
		
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You can pick up Ping G drivers for around Â£120 now. I got one on Ebay recently for Â£110 delivered. 

As it has already been mentioned, you may as well pick up a second hand club from a major manufacturer. The only reason I would buy new is to get fully custom fit, which is not an option with the Old Tom anyway.

Not saying that the 2nd hand club is better or anything like that, I just don't think there would be any point in getting the Old Tom when you can purchase a tried and trusted club from a major manufacturer which will hold its resell value.


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## Wolf (Jan 15, 2019)

Quite like the look of it, but when you compare it to major OEM brands where you can get a bargain even brand new if you go a model or 2 older. I got my Cobra F6 brand new for Â£72 does a fine job. 

Also brands like Benross are amazingly placed at price point and quality with more behind them for marketing and recognition in the industry. 

Something like this would have to look at spending on marketing and getting someone to review it on board to get it out to a wider golf audience and then slowly build up reputation. That alone is not easy just look at Scratch Golf they had some amazing Wedges and lovely looking irons with tour players on board but where are they now. It takes a lot to break in to this industry and I can't see this one taking off even at budget price point there are simply better options available.


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## Grant85 (Jan 15, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Is the G30 driver much different to the G? I got my G30 SF Tec for only Â£100 second hand.

As others have said above, if you buy this Old Tom thing, the resale value is through the floor, as opposed to getting a Ping or something where you'll never struggle to sell it when you come to upgrade. And is this one likely to be any better than a Ping from 3, 4 years ago?
		
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I'm not sure, likely to be very similar clubs. Probably for us mortals the differences are minimal / marginal.


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## Grant85 (Jan 15, 2019)

Coffey said:



			You can pick up Ping G drivers for around Â£120 now. I got one on Ebay recently for Â£110 delivered.

As it has already been mentioned, you may as well pick up a second hand club from a major manufacturer. The only reason I would buy new is to get fully custom fit, which is not an option with the Old Tom anyway.

Not saying that the 2nd hand club is better or anything like that, I just don't think there would be any point in getting the Old Tom when you can purchase a tried and trusted club from a major manufacturer which will hold its resell value.
		
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Accept there are likely to be benefits in custom fitting, if only to confirm what you have is suitable for your game.

Problem I have with getting custom fit is that you  have to take the brand new current line-up if you want to adjust head / shaft / length etc, which means you are basically talking Â£350 to Â£500 (maybe more if they find a different shaft is best).

I had a very poor experience with AG getting my current Driver in 2015 when it was clear that my budget wasn't Â£300+. He basically took out 3 or 4 of last years models that were around the Â£150 to Â£199 range and left me to it, without really giving any input or looking at any numbers other than distance. There was never any discussion of changing shaft or trying to fine tune anything, or even looking to line up the fade / draw weight. 

And that was me parting with nearly Â£200 for a brand new club 4 years ago, and in the end he gave me a 10.5 degree SLDR that, yes was getting good reviews and I could hit well enough, but that I was never going to actually launch high enough to get my best distance, even if swinging my Sunday best.


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## Orikoru (Jan 15, 2019)

Grant85 said:



			Accept there are likely to be benefits in custom fitting, if only to confirm what you have is suitable for your game.

Problem I have with getting custom fit is that you  have to take the brand new current line-up if you want to adjust head / shaft / length etc, which means you are basically talking Â£350 to Â£500 (maybe more if they find a different shaft is best).

I had a very poor experience with AG getting my current Driver in 2015 when it was clear that my budget wasn't Â£300+. He basically took out 3 or 4 of last years models that were around the Â£150 to Â£199 range and left me to it, without really giving any input or looking at any numbers other than distance. There was never any discussion of changing shaft or trying to fine tune anything, or even looking to line up the fade / draw weight.

And that was me parting with nearly Â£200 for a brand new club 4 years ago, and in the end he gave me a 10.5 degree SLDR that, yes was getting good reviews and I could hit well enough, but that I was never going to actually launch high enough to get my best distance, even if swinging my Sunday best.
		
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Agree. Custom fitting, and trying to get second hand or discounted gear just don't really seem to mix. I was lucky enough to have an AG 'Outlet' near me that was chock full of a second hand gear and had a driving range there which you can try anything before buying. Sadly that's now been shut down so I won't have this option in future.


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## Jacko_G (Jan 15, 2019)

There are certainly uglier looking bats out there.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 15, 2019)

I use the G driver (off the shelf). Plenty of options on Golfbidder from Â£138 to over Â£200 dependent on quality and given that Golfbidder aren't the cheapest second hand retailer out there. https://www.golfbidder.co.uk/models/6147/Ping__Driver_G-Series.html Ping drivers have a reputation for forgiveness and I've always found them decent and any mistakes are mine


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## Oddsocks (Jan 15, 2019)

Finally, someone had realised that black faces wear making the club look prematurely old.

Silver faces rock!


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## Grant85 (Apr 28, 2019)

anyway folks, had this for a couple of weeks now.

Absolutely love it. Has massively improved my driving and scoring. It looks and feels like a premium product.

Granted I was using an SLDR, which is not the right club for my skill level - but very impressed with how easy the new club is to lunch in comparison. Good hits are probably 25 yards past the SLDR.

Ok, might be a reasonable amount of luck in terms of this just suiting my swing - but I reckon if you were to do a blind test with the latest Premium brand driver you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a Â£130 and Â£450 club.  

After taking a punt for Â£130, it has far exceeded my expectation levels.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 28, 2019)

Grant85 said:



			anyway folks, had this for a couple of weeks now.

Absolutely love it. Has massively improved my driving and scoring. It looks and feels like a premium product.

Granted I was using an SLDR, which is not the right club for my skill level - but very impressed with how easy the new club is to lunch in comparison. Good hits are probably 25 yards past the SLDR.

Ok, might be a reasonable amount of luck in terms of this just suiting my swing - but I reckon if you were to do a blind test with the latest Premium brand driver you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a Â£130 and Â£450 club. 

After taking a punt for Â£130, it has far exceeded my expectation levels.
		
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I like the look of it and the price even now at Â£155 seems a decent amount

However the putter at Â£135 was it? Seems excessive when for a couple quid more can get an odyssey which imo make the best selection of putters for average golfers


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## Grant85 (Apr 28, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			I like the look of it and the price even now at Â£155 seems a decent amount

However the putter at Â£135 was it? Seems excessive when for a couple quid more can get an odyssey which imo make the best selection of putters for average golfers
		
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Don't know if you'll see too many new putters from Odyssey at that kind of price. 

The putter has only been on for a few days and he doesn't even have a prototype in his hands. I'd guess there is a minimum threshold of cost in order to get these manufactured and shipped. 

A company like Odyssey are buying tens of thousands of units at a big discount, but given my experience with the Driver I'd reckon you are getting a very similar quality product - probably from the same factory that a a big manufacturer are using. So at Â£135 I doubt you are getting ripped off. 

However if you are going to buy stuff from Old Tom (or similar cottage companies), you are buying into the ethos and the brand imo. It's pretty narrow to compare every aspect to a huge company with hundreds of products and millions in development and marketing budgets. What the guy has done is seriously impressive in my opinion.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 28, 2019)

Grant85 said:



			Don't know if you'll see too many new putters from Odyssey at that kind of price.

The putter has only been on for a few days and he doesn't even have a prototype in his hands. I'd guess there is a minimum threshold of cost in order to get these manufactured and shipped.

A company like Odyssey are buying tens of thousands of units at a big discount, but given my experience with the Driver I'd reckon you are getting a very similar quality product - probably from the same factory that a a big manufacturer are using. So at Â£135 I doubt you are getting ripped off.

However if you are going to buy stuff from Old Tom (or similar cottage companies), you are buying into the ethos and the brand imo. It's pretty narrow to compare every aspect to a huge company with hundreds of products and millions in development and marketing budgets. What the guy has done is seriously impressive in my opinion.
		
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It is very impressive yes

But as a selling point he has put his driver at Â£155 which is a fraction of current drivers on the market.. makes people consider even more 

However when the putter is similar price to the big boys itâ€™s going to be harder imo


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## Grant85 (Apr 28, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			It is very impressive yes

But as a selling point he has put his driver at Â£155 which is a fraction of current drivers on the market.. makes people consider even more

However when the putter is similar price to the big boys itâ€™s going to be harder imo
		
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Personal view is that a putter and a driver cost much the same to develop and manufacture - which is probably reflected in the Old Tom pricing. Big companies sell Drivers for Â£449 because people buy them at the price. If folk were more inclined to pay even more for putters and change them every year or two, then the price of those would increase as well.

Guy I play with has a Callaway Epic driver. Got it second hand for Â£210 and sold his previous Driver for Â£90. The same club is still selling for Â£449, so someone has probably bought it for around that price less than a year ago and traded it in, probably losing close to Â£300 on it. Absolute madness in terms of consumer behaviour that companies are obviously quite happy to take advantage of.


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## pauljames87 (Apr 28, 2019)

Grant85 said:



			Personal view is that a putter and a driver cost much the same to develop and manufacture - which is probably reflected in the Old Tom pricing. Big companies sell Drivers for Â£449 because people buy them at the price. If folk were more inclined to pay even more for putters and change them every year or two, then the price of those would increase as well.

Guy I play with has a Callaway Epic driver. Got it second hand for Â£210 and sold his previous Driver for Â£90. The same club is still selling for Â£449, so someone has probably bought it for around that price less than a year ago and traded it in, probably losing close to Â£300 on it. Absolute madness in terms of consumer behaviour that companies are obviously quite happy to take advantage of.
		
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Your right the driver prices are mad

I got an m2 when they first came out but only because I took advantage of the double trade in deal at AG so cost me Â£179 instead of 279

Then changed this year to cobra f7.. brand new just 2 models out of date .. Â£165, with Â£60 given for my m2 so paid Â£105 for a brand new driver!


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## Sats (Apr 28, 2019)

First impressions are looks; not bad, I personally don't like the OLD TOM script on the crown but that's my own opinion. I definitely want to try it out, price is hard to beat - mind you Benross do decent clubs at decent prices. Though I'd never buy a club with it's resale value in my mind, I buy it because I like the looks, feel and it performs the way I want it to.


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## Slime (Apr 28, 2019)

Is the driver loft adjustable?


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## Sats (Apr 28, 2019)

Slime said:



			Is the driver loft adjustable?
		
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Looks like it is from the pictures.


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## Slime (Apr 28, 2019)

Sats said:



			Looks like it is from the pictures.
		
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I know, but there's no mention on the website.


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## Sats (Apr 28, 2019)

Slime said:



			I know, but there's no mention on the website.
		
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I know, very little information on the website, which I think is a mistake by the company. If their product is that good speak about it get your audience intrigued.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 28, 2019)

Sats said:



			I know very little information on the website, which I think is a mistake by the company. If there product is that good speak about it get your audience intrigued.
		
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Indeed. As a new company you need a centralised pool of information and plenty of details on what you are selling including specifications, positive feedback/reviews. Make a good website, and you can go onto social media and make sure customers are fed back.


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## Grant85 (Apr 29, 2019)

Slime said:



			Is the driver loft adjustable?
		
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Driver is loft adjustable via the shaft. Looks to be options for 10.5 (std), 10.5 upright, 12.5 and 9.0.


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## Grant85 (Apr 29, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Indeed. As a new company you need a centralised pool of information and plenty of details on what you are selling including specifications, positive feedback/reviews. Make a good website, and you can go onto social media and make sure customers are fed back.
		
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They do have quite a bit of detail on the website and reviews. 

Does seem strange that he isn't making a big feature of the adjustable loft. May be that it's meant to be a 10.5 degree and adjusting will not necessarily lead to the best performance. I've never actually understood how adjustable drivers work given the Driver head is the same - you must surely open or close the face when adjusting the loft. 

Also, I've seen on his facebook page that he only has about 7 drivers left from his initial factory run. Not sure of his intention if he will re-order the same Drivers again, or tweak the design to a Mk ii. Given that he has ordered the putters, he must have sold enough to make it worthwhile, but in this day and age he will lose a lot of customers if he doesn't carry much stock for immediate delivery as people obviously expect this in every industry.


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## Scozzy (Apr 29, 2019)

Time will tell if he can find a place in the market and still be around in a few years,I'm more interested in the chat on here about not buying it for loss of resale value?? Really? Surely if you buy a big boys new model whether it's ping/TM whoever for 400Â£ ish and sell on eBay 18mths later for 140Â£ that's the same loss as old tom at 155Â£ new and flogging it for 40Â£ later on is it not? The loss of value is pretty much the same scale %wise so what's the difference? New driver prices are a joke in any case and I'm an expert in justifying golf purchases ðŸ˜Ž


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## MendieGK (Apr 29, 2019)

Grant85 said:



			They do have quite a bit of detail on the website and reviews.

Does seem strange that he isn't making a big feature of the adjustable loft. May be that it's meant to be a 10.5 degree and adjusting will not necessarily lead to the best performance. I've never actually understood how adjustable drivers work given the Driver head is the same - you must surely open or close the face when adjusting the loft.

Also, I've seen on his facebook page that he only has about 7 drivers left from his initial factory run. Not sure of his intention if he will re-order the same Drivers again, or tweak the design to a Mk ii. Given that he has ordered the putters, he must have sold enough to make it worthwhile, but in this day and age he will lose a lot of customers if he doesn't carry much stock for immediate delivery as people obviously expect this in every industry.
		
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Adjustable loft drivers are a fad, moving the shaft means moving the spine of the shaft which is important.

Oh wait, these â€˜mainâ€™ brands donâ€™t spine align. Never mind


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## Jacko_G (Apr 29, 2019)

MendieGK said:



			Adjustable loft drivers are a fad, moving the shaft means moving the spine of the shaft which is important.

Oh wait, these â€˜mainâ€™ brands donâ€™t spine align. Never mind
		
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Spine alignment and FLO ing shafts is a pretty taboo subject, lots of different thoughts and opinions on whether it's beneficial or not, from shafts having "multiple spines" to where is the optimum position for the spine to be positioned. 

There doesn't seem to be a universally accepted "yeah" or "nah" in this field. Lots of noise from both camps.


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## Slime (Apr 29, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Spine alignment and FLO ing shafts is a pretty taboo subject, lots of different thoughts and opinions on whether it's beneficial or not, from shafts having "multiple spines" to where is the optimum position for the spine to be positioned.

There doesn't seem to be a universally accepted "yeah" or "nah" in this field. Lots of noise from both camps.
		
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A bit like Brexit, then!


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## Parsaregood (Apr 29, 2019)

Spining or puring shafts makes no difference to performance and if it did every pro would have it done. Relatively few pros actually do this and tests have been done and no difference can be felt or seen with clubs where one is pured and the other is not. It's really not a necessary thing to do and will make zero difference, if if makes you feel better great do it but you ain't going to play any better because of it


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