# Course is Bone Dry - Temporarily Ban Smoking?



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 27, 2018)

With Saddleworth Moor in flames; my track bone dry; and with me still seeing discarded fags ends about the place - do I think that there should be a ban on smoking on the golf course?   I think I do.  It's never happened at my place that I'm aware of - but surely the risk of part of your course going up in flames is just not worth it.  Could smokers survive 4hrs without a fag?


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## tsped83 (Jun 27, 2018)

Couldnâ€™t agree more. Ban it full stop on the golf course at least be responsible and pick up your tab ends. Iâ€™m sure people wouldnâ€™t appreciate me throwing litter down across the course.


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## bobmac (Jun 27, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Could smokers survive 4hrs without a fag?
		
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No.


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## Curls (Jun 27, 2018)

I don't smoke but I just realised there are no boxes for fag ends on our course, perhaps one could be put at the 10th for those in need and banned elsewhere... I wouldn't want to ban it outright there are enough places people can't enjoy a drag now without including the wide open, but I agree given the fire risk it's a very valid concern.


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## virtuocity (Jun 27, 2018)

Has a cigarette ever caused damage to a course in the UK?


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## jim8flog (Jun 27, 2018)

We have had them where I play.

One year at our course one guy nearly caused quite a big fire when he dropped his pipe. Luckily he was in a fourball and between them they managed to get it under control and put out.

I used to forever moan at my Dad for flicking his lit fag ends out of the car window.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 27, 2018)

virtuocity said:



			Has a cigarette ever caused damage to a course in the UK?
		
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Of course it has, there were massive heathland fires in 1976.
I managed a Heathland course just up the road from Hogan in 1976. 
I banned smoking and received serious abuse from the members, a week later a chunk of our 5th fairway caught fire [could only have been from a butt end] and a massive heath fire came within a mile of the course.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 27, 2018)

There are lots of things that can cause a dry fire - do you want to ban cans which can reflect the sun etc etc 

Iâ€™m sure the people who smoke on golf courses will ensure that the fag is completey out


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## PCWOX (Jun 27, 2018)

Always winds me up seeing fag butts just lying on the fairways and sometimes even on the greens.  You see it at courses all around the UK sadly.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 27, 2018)

I am also sure that some people who smoke on golf courses discard their but ends without a second thought.
Are you still a member of Woburn as bone dry pine needles make excellent tinder.
Years of damage to a golf course balanced against a mild inconvenience.

It's a no brainer.


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## Captainron (Jun 27, 2018)

Iâ€™m in agreement with the SILH (take a screenshot)

Currently a very high risk of fire from many sources. Most folk I have played with who smoke donâ€™t put out their fags before flicking them into the clag. Iâ€™m not saying some arenâ€™t more circumspect but this is an accident waiting to happen. 

I would have no complaints if there was a temporary ban while these conditions exist but wouldnâ€™t be averse to a complete ban on smoking full stop


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## bobmac (Jun 27, 2018)

ATTENTION SMOKERS

During the recent hot spell the course has become very dry.
Please distinguish all cigarettes thoroughly.
Thank you


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## Jamesbrown (Jun 27, 2018)

bobmac said:



ATTENTION SMOKERS



During the recent hot spell the course has become very dry.
Please distinguish all cigarettes thoroughly.
Thank you
		
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That would be to simple and considerate for people on here! 
I donâ€™t smoke but banning it is extreme!


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## Coffey (Jun 27, 2018)

bobmac said:



ATTENTION SMOKERS

During the recent hot spell the course has become very dry.
Please distinguish all cigarettes thoroughly.
Thank you
		
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Yeah just set the sign beside the one which asks all golfers to repair their pitch marks and divots. They can ignore them both at the same time!


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## Slab (Jun 27, 2018)

Coffey said:



			Yeah just set the sign beside the one which asks all golfers to repair their pitch marks and divots. They can ignore them both at the same time!
		
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Although if that's the player mentality they're hardly going to take notice of a smoking ban either are they


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## GB72 (Jun 27, 2018)

Warning signs to start with would be a good idea. Perhaps small sand buckets on each tee to ensure that those who do smoke put them out properly.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 27, 2018)

Captainron said:



*Iâ€™m in agreement with the SILH (take a screenshot)
*
Currently a very high risk of fire from many sources. Most folk I have played with who smoke donâ€™t put out their fags before flicking them into the clag. Iâ€™m not saying some arenâ€™t more circumspect but this is an accident waiting to happen. 

I would have no complaints if there was a temporary ban while these conditions exist but wouldnâ€™t be averse to a complete ban on smoking full stop
		
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LOL - just picked myself up off the floor


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 27, 2018)

Slab said:



			Although if that's the player mentality they're hardly going to take notice of a smoking ban either are they
		
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But his playing partners would pull him up for lighting up?


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## Slab (Jun 27, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			But his playing partners would pull him up for lighting up?
		
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So they'd pull him up for lighting but wouldn't pull him up for carelessly discarding a lit cig, weird 

I don't think it needs banned for a few days of warm weather


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## Coffey (Jun 27, 2018)

Slab said:



			Although if that's the player mentality they're hardly going to take notice of a smoking ban either are they
		
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I think its slightly different though.

If it is a pure ban, it is pretty easy to tell if someone is smoking but with 'Reminding' people to put it out. You are not really going to be able to tell if they have or they haven't without watching them. But yes, get what you are saying. You can ban phones in cars as much as you like but some people will continue to do it until something happens


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## GB72 (Jun 27, 2018)

Slab said:



			So they'd pull him up for lighting but wouldn't pull him up for carelessly discarding a lit cig, weird 

I don't think it needs banned for a few days of warm weather
		
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I do feel that, as with any situation where there is heightened level of risk, as there is at the moment, sensible precaution should be taken. A ban may be too much but notices, sand buckets and maybe a sign with details of what to do if you see something (smoke in the rough etc) would help.


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## dewsweeper (Jun 27, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There are lots of things that can cause a dry fire - do you want to ban cans which can reflect the sun etc etc 

Iâ€™m sure the people who smoke on golf courses will ensure that the fag is completey out
		
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As a retired fireman. with 31years service, I have been to many fires caused by carelessly disposed cigarettes but never one thought to be caused by cans.
I recall playing at Hollinwell ,mid 1980s with the British Fire Service and I recall there was a total smoking ban on the  course for the 4 days of the competition.
All competitors survived !


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## Slab (Jun 27, 2018)

GB72 said:



			I do feel that, as with any situation where there is heightened level of risk, as there is at the moment, sensible precaution should be taken. A ban may be too much but notices, sand buckets and maybe a sign with details of what to do if you see something (smoke in the rough etc) would help.
		
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Agree, as LP said there's plenty ways a fire can start, measures should cover as many as possibly (as you describe) not simply target one


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## londonlewis (Jun 27, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			With Saddleworth Moor in flames; my track bone dry; and with me still seeing discarded fags ends about the place - do I think that there should be a ban on smoking on the golf course?   I think I do.  It's never happened at my place that I'm aware of - but surely the risk of part of your course going up in flames is just not worth it.  Could smokers survive 4hrs without a fag?
		
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Yes they can. 
And yes, you should. 

Good call.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 27, 2018)

Slab said:



			So they'd pull him up for lighting but wouldn't pull him up for carelessly discarding a lit cig, weird 

I don't think it needs banned for a few days of warm weather
		
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Well if lighting up was still allowed then playing companions should perhaps ask the smoker to discard his fag end with great care.  Don;t leave it to the smoker to act responsibly - pity you might have to - but there we go


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## Khamelion (Jun 27, 2018)

I've a very cynical view on smoking and general litter, in that some people are just lazy knobs. On many courses I've seen a bin on the tee box and only a few feet away fag ends, chocolate wrappers and bottles. Those of us with a conscience and a decent upbringing that were taught to respect others and our environment are few and far between and those that don't give a toss or expect others will pick up for them will no doubt just ignore any signs and carry on blindly not caring if they start fires or make their course look a mess.


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## mashleyR7 (Jun 27, 2018)

virtuocity said:



			Has a cigarette ever caused damage to a course in the UK?
		
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Yes, on particularly dry links course they sometime ban smoking. Place like Royal St Georges do so for prob 3-2 weeks a year in high summer.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 27, 2018)

Dead easy to spot the smokers on here ehh.:lol:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 27, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Dead easy to spot the smokers on here ehh.:lol:
		
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Bet itâ€™s not.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 27, 2018)

We had an email from the club today reminding smokers to be vigilant when extinguishing their cigarettes. I wouldn't ban them but I feel the club could do more to supply suitable bins on the course for butts to be disposed in. We are tinder dry and it'll only take one mistake to cause some serious damage


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 27, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Iâ€™m sure the people who smoke on golf courses will ensure that the fag is completey out
		
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You are kidding aren't you. They smoke em, flick em away. Don't care if out or not.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 27, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You are kidding aren't you. They smoke em, flick em away. Don't care if out or not.
		
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What a shame that so many times people throw around poor negative generalisations - the guys I play with who smoke donâ€™t do what you suggest and the forum members I have played with who smoke donâ€™t do what you suggest. Maybe itâ€™s just the people you play with


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## tugglesf239 (Jun 27, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You are kidding aren't you. They smoke em, flick em away. Don't care if out or not.
		
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Thatâ€™s exactly what I do yeah. 

We all do it. Itâ€™s just how smokers are.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 27, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What a shame that so many times people throw around poor negative generalisations - the guys I play with who smoke donâ€™t do what you suggest and the forum members I have played with who smoke donâ€™t do what you suggest. Maybe itâ€™s just the people you play with 

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tugglesf239 said:



			Thatâ€™s exactly what I do yeah. 

We all do it. Itâ€™s just how smokers are.
		
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I'm pleased you have had better experiences but the golfers I have played with over the years have all just flicked them away. Sorry if you don't like that but it is what I have seen over and over.


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## tugglesf239 (Jun 27, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm pleased you have had better experiences but the golfers I have played with over the years have all just flicked them away. Sorry if you don't like that but it is what I have seen over and over.
		
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Good for you mate &#128077;


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## upsidedown (Jun 27, 2018)

Back in 76 saw plenty of hedgerows burnt out from discarded cigarette butts from cars and guess this is in USA but does illustrate how quickly a fire can start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms4qTAIUyBk


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 27, 2018)

We recently had a big gorse fire at our course. I think we had fire engines out seven times in a week as it just kept smoldering and reigniting. 

Anything to reduce the risk of that sounds like a sensible suggestion.


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## TreeSeeker (Jun 27, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm pleased you have had better experiences but the golfers I have played with over the years have all just flicked them away. Sorry if you don't like that but it is what I have seen over and over.
		
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sad to say it is the majority of what I've seen as well, and we have bins on almost all of our tee boxes. Most of my playing partners are smart enough to use a bin at least


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## Slab (Jun 28, 2018)

Anything FD!

Just close the courses this week

Ok I know not 'anything' but no doubt it would help &#128516;


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## hovis (Jun 28, 2018)

most people dont realised that cigarettes are now self extinguishing.   about a year ago we where part of a study to show how effective they are.   even when dropped down the side off a sofa they didn't cause a fire.

imo it would be very difficult to start a grass fire with a discarded cigarette


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## KenL (Jun 28, 2018)

Self-extinguishing? Never heard of that, do they have built in sprinklers .

I've said on here before (and that created a fire storm) that smoking should be banned on golf courses at all times.  No place for the filthy habit on any sports facility.


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## Tashyboy (Jun 28, 2018)

Permanent ban for me &#128077;


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 28, 2018)

hovis said:



			most people dont realised that cigarettes are now self extinguishing.   about a year ago we where part of a study to show how effective they are.   even when dropped down the side off a sofa they didn't cause a fire.

imo it would be very difficult to start a grass fire with a discarded cigarette
		
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How do you smoke them if they keep extinguishing themselves?


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## bobmac (Jun 28, 2018)

What next, ban alcohol?


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## Jamesbrown (Jun 28, 2018)

bobmac said:



			What next, ban alcohol?
		
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You know someone will say yes to that donâ€™t you!? 

Can we ban women, J&t, anyone over an 18 handicap , buggies and seniors too while we are having a bout of Fascism?


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## KenL (Jun 28, 2018)

bobmac said:



			What next, ban alcohol?
		
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Alcohol is not allowed on my course except with prior permission.


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## USER1999 (Jun 28, 2018)

FairwayDodger said:



			How do you smoke them if they keep extinguishing themselves? 

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Quickly?


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## Khamelion (Jun 28, 2018)

bobmac said:



			What next, ban alcohol?
		
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On the course yes.

Again people are lazy, cans, bottles and bottle tops are left, dropped, rather than carried to a tee box where there is a bin. Not everyone, but the few rotten apples spoil it for the rest.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 28, 2018)

I personally don't have a problem with alcohol on the course but I accept some have issues. The big difference between that and smoking however is that unless someone sprays me with alcohol their drinking should not interfere with me. Playing with someone who smokes inevitably means that my clothes will smell like an ashtray, there will be a good chance I will be breathing in their fumes even when outdoors. Someone drinking a bottle of beer is not likely to lead to me smelling like a bar at 11pm.


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## bobmac (Jun 28, 2018)

Khamelion said:



			On the course yes.

Again people are lazy, cans, bottles and bottle tops are left, dropped, rather than carried to a tee box where there is a bin. Not everyone, *but the few rotten apples spoil it for the rest*.
		
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I don't agree.
It's those in charge who ban things because of the rotten apples who spoil it for the rest.


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## Sats (Jun 28, 2018)

Gross habit and a fire hazard. I think smokers should dispose of their rubbish properly - I don't see people discarding drinks and food wrappers on the course, yet I see dirty smokers dropping butts all the time. Pick up your fag butts - simple.


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## patricks148 (Jun 28, 2018)

moment its a disaster waiting to happen, Course rammed with yanks all puffing away on big cigars


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## Khamelion (Jun 28, 2018)

bobmac said:



			What next, ban alcohol?
		
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Khamelion said:



			On the course yes.

Again people are lazy, cans, bottles and bottle tops are left, dropped, rather than carried to a tee box where there is a bin. Not everyone, but the few rotten apples spoil it for the rest.
		
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bobmac said:



			I don't agree.
It's those in charge who ban things because of the rotten apples who spoil it for the rest.
		
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To clarify, some of those that drink on the course, discard their empties on the course when it would be just as easy for them to carry it to the next bin, but no dropping an empty bottle or as the original thread discussion point, a fag end is much easier, thus leaving it for the rest of us to pick up after them. Bottles and cans and other litter I will pick up, be it on my course or anybody else's course, but I do refuse to pick up fag ends.

It may not spoil the enjoyment of a round of golf, but I don't see why I should be picking up the rubbish other people are to lazy to carry to a bin. It's just ignorance and a lack of respect for others and the course.


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## hovis (Jun 28, 2018)

FairwayDodger said:



			How do you smoke them if they keep extinguishing themselves? 

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they have multiple fire break circles running down the cigarette.  you can see if you open one up and hold to the light.   the paper will only burn past these fire breaks when a smoker draws on it.  if you leave it to burn to the next fire break it will  smoulder very slowly but as its under old ash it doesn't catch alight.    

fire deaths through smoking in bed where very common 20 year's ago.  i genuinely cant remember the last cigarette related fire i have attended in around 4 years


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## Khamelion (Jun 28, 2018)

I moved over to twitter to see what was going on and the first post that popped up, was from Forest Pines GC, where they have temporarily put a ban on all smoking on all three courses, due to the dry weather.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 28, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I personally don't have a problem with alcohol on the course but I accept some have issues. The big difference between that and smoking however is that unless someone sprays me with alcohol their drinking should not interfere with me. Playing with someone who smokes inevitably means that my clothes will smell like an ashtray, there will be a good chance I will be breathing in their fumes even when outdoors. Someone drinking a bottle of beer is not likely to lead to me smelling like a bar at 11pm.
		
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Unless of course the person drinking is then a little bit tipsy and could end up causing issues which has happened at more clubs that people smoking a cigarette

Certainly seen more issues on a course through alcohol than smoking


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 28, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Unless of course the person drinking is then a little bit tipsy and could end up causing issues which has happened at more clubs that people smoking a cigarette

Certainly seen more issues on a course through alcohol than smoking
		
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Agreed but they are different issues. Alcohol can cause unpleasantness, no question, it does that in many aspects of life. People don't fight after 20 cigarettes but the unpleasant aspect of cigarettes does impact those around the smoker.


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## dewsweeper (Jun 28, 2018)

LT ,
from noting LPs history on here you will not win this discussion , good  to keep trying though.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 28, 2018)

dewsweeper said:



			LT ,
from noting LPs history on here you will not win this discussion , good  to keep trying though.
		
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Ha ha. I know mate. I go for a while and then will just drop out.


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## hovis (Jun 28, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			the unpleasant aspect of cigarettes does impact those around the smoker.
		
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agreed.  a little off topic but only last week i was in Cyprus.   there where multiple people on their loungers smoking away completely oblivious to those around them.  in their eye's they're doing the right thing by smoking outside.   when in fact their smoke is blowing straight though a line of children trying to eat with their family.   i asked one couple to be aware that every time they blow smoke it goes into my face and the face of my 4 year old daughter.   their answer was "move then" 

these people are the type of people that would throw a fag end into the dry rough.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 28, 2018)

TreeSeeker said:



			sad to say it is the majority of what I've seen as well, and we have bins on almost all of our tee boxes. Most of my playing partners are smart enough to use a bin at least 

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I don't recall any smokers I play with (they are very few) putting their fag ends in a bin.

In fact for some reason I am not sure of, we seem to have removed the bins at each tee.  What this means of course is that a smoker has to take responsibility for their fag ends - indeed it means that they should keep fag ends on their person or in their bag.  Now that shouldn't be too hard to do.

That said - given the rubbish that I find myself picking up (not that much but there shouldn't be ANY) many seem unable to take their banana skin, sweetie/biscuit wrappers with them and seem content to chuck them on the ground or into the rough.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 28, 2018)

bobmac said:



			What next, ban alcohol?
		
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Would you imbibe alcohol if you were playing with juniors.  All about context and circumstances I suggest.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 28, 2018)

hovis said:



			agreed.  a little off topic but only last week i was in Cyprus.   there where multiple people on their loungers smoking away completely oblivious to those around them.  in their eye's they're doing the right thing by smoking outside.   when in fact their smoke is blowing straight though a line of children trying to eat with their family.   i asked one couple to be aware that every time they blow smoke it goes into my face and the face of my 4 year old daughter.   their answer was "move then" 

these people are the type of people that would throw a fag end into the dry rough.
		
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On holiday in Greece recently Mrs SILH and myself had to move table as a couple next to us were chain smoking...but hey ho - that's Greece and we could move.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 28, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Agreed but they are different issues. Alcohol can cause unpleasantness, no question, it does that in many aspects of life. People don't fight after 20 cigarettes but the unpleasant aspect of cigarettes does impact those around the smoker.
		
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You are going into the social aspect negatives of smoking as opposed to the issues on a golf course where you are in the open air and you shouldnâ€™t be affected the same way as you do in a closed area. All you need to do is ensure you are up wind - simple.

And dewswepper can you not resort to cheap little digs please


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 28, 2018)

hovis said:



			they have multiple fire break circles running down the cigarette.  you can see if you open one up and hold to the light.   the paper will only burn past these fire breaks when a smoker draws on it.  if you leave it to burn to the next fire break it will  smoulder very slowly but as its under old ash it doesn't catch alight.    Thanks 

fire deaths through smoking in bed where very common 20 year's ago.  i genuinely cant remember the last cigarette related fire i have attended in around 4 years
		
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Was just joking, but thatâ€™s actually quite interesting!


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## hovis (Jun 28, 2018)

FairwayDodger said:



			Was just joking, but thatâ€™s actually quite interesting! 

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really!!!!  i almost sent myself to sleep writing it ðŸ˜


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## Khamelion (Jun 28, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You are going into the social aspect negatives of smoking as opposed to the issues on a golf course where you are in the open air and you shouldnâ€™t be affected the same way as you do in a closed area. All you need to do is ensure you are up wind - simple.

And dewswepper can you not resort to cheap little digs please
		
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How many of those golfing fights that you see on social media are more than likely due to alcohol being involved? I'll caveat that by writing some will be down to a lack of a shout of 'fore' and someone being hit, or slow play or any of the other things that wind us up as golfers, but, many of those things that provoke are compounded under the influence of alcohol.


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## garyinderry (Jun 28, 2018)

Much rather find a single fag butt than a big stinky banana peel.


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## tsped83 (Jun 28, 2018)

Shoot all smokers - issue resolved. (Tin hat)


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## dewsweeper (Jun 28, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You are going into the social aspect negatives of smoking as opposed to the issues on a golf course where you are in the open air and you shouldnâ€™t be affected the same way as you do in a closed area. All you need to do is ensure you are up wind - simple.

And dewswepper can you not resort to cheap little digs please
		
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As someone who to quote you told me" to calm down dear" no I will not.
Your style of derailing threads irks me no end.
In the modern idiom I think you should grow a pair!


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 28, 2018)

hovis said:



			really!!!!  i almost sent myself to sleep writing it &#128513;
		
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I lead a very dull life


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## MegaSteve (Jun 28, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Would you imbibe alcohol if you were playing with juniors.  All about context and circumstances I suggest.
		
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Not that I drink alcohol whilst on the course [aside from using a hip flask of a winter] I'd happily trade not drinking beer in return for the young un's not popping an energy drink...


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## Reemul (Jun 28, 2018)

Played Wareham last night and there was a sign up saying no smoking on the course, there was no smoking only 2 of us on it late in the evening


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 29, 2018)

And so - an Email from the club this evening - _With the current hot weather creating a very dry environment on the course, we have taken the decision to ban smoking on the golf course until further notice._


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## backwoodsman (Jun 29, 2018)

Putting aside the perceived rights & wrongs of smoking outdoors - and "fag butt" disposal - have to say that while l know it's been dry, l can't think of anywhere on our course that has any prospect of catching fire anyway? So l can't see it will be a decision we need to make.

 (Ok, l dare say heathland and links courses may have more risk ...)


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## bobmac (Jun 29, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And so - an Email from the club this evening - _With the current hot weather creating a very dry environment on the course, we have taken the decision to ban smoking on the golf course until further notice._

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You must be pleased you got your way


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## Slab (Jun 29, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And so - an Email from the club this evening - _With the current hot weather creating a very dry environment on the course, we have taken the decision to ban smoking on the golf course until further notice._

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Wow thatâ€™s a bit mental when you think about it. I mean were any options discussed that fall short of a complete ban?

Iâ€™m thinking if players took selfie videos of them stubbing out and safely disposing of the butt for review by the committee or maybe the pro, would that have been acceptable?
Maybe collect a few of the 1,000â€™s of plastic bottles that I guarantee are lining the roads to every course in the country and put a little water into it (regular tap water will do) and put them by the first tee it would make a great way to dispose of fag ends as you go round and the bottle could be put in the bin at the end of the round?
What about just making sure on each tee bins areâ€¦â€¦â€¦. OMG! I just realised the amount of times Iâ€™ve seen sparks come off the bottom of drivers when Iâ€™ve been at the range! Itâ€™s happening guys its really happening, somewhere at your course thereâ€™s a golfer (probably cat 1) whoâ€™s smacking ball after ball in these bone dry tinder conditions (so itâ€™s going at least 245 yards) and shedding sparks off the sole of his club. Iâ€™m thinking a fire warden course for assistant shop proâ€™s is called for and a ban on using these â€˜firesticksâ€™ until late September (got to have enough time for TM to tape over all their stock of â€˜Burnersâ€™ with some kind of chilly sounding description like the TM Icicle and get them out this season)

Anyway what were we talking aboutâ€¦


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 29, 2018)

OOI the fire on my old course was quite interesting.

We noticed a small black patch in the middle of a fairway about a couple of sq ft and thought that someone had dropped a phag end. 
No smoke, no smell of burning so we assumed that it was a has been fire.
A couple of weeks later a large area around this black patch started to discolour and the grass died back. The fire had obviously spread by smouldering underground for some time.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 29, 2018)

Slab said:



			Wow thatâ€™s a bit mental when you think about it. I mean were any options discussed that fall short of a complete ban?

Iâ€™m thinking if players took selfie videos of them stubbing out and safely disposing of the butt for review by the committee or maybe the pro, would that have been acceptable?
Maybe collect a few of the 1,000â€™s of plastic bottles that I guarantee are lining the roads to every course in the country and put a little water into it (regular tap water will do) and put them by the first tee it would make a great way to dispose of fag ends as you go round and the bottle could be put in the bin at the end of the round?
What about just making sure on each tee bins areâ€¦â€¦â€¦. OMG! I just realised the amount of times Iâ€™ve seen sparks come off the bottom of drivers when Iâ€™ve been at the range! Itâ€™s happening guys its really happening, somewhere at your course thereâ€™s a golfer (probably cat 1) whoâ€™s smacking ball after ball in these bone dry tinder conditions (so itâ€™s going at least 245 yards) and shedding sparks off the sole of his club. Iâ€™m thinking a fire warden course for assistant shop proâ€™s is called for and a ban on using these â€˜firesticksâ€™ until late September (got to have enough time for TM to tape over all their stock of â€˜Burnersâ€™ with some kind of chilly sounding description like the TM Icicle and get them out this season)

Anyway what were we talking aboutâ€¦
		
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I am sure that options were discussed.  The fact is the course is absolutely tinder dry...


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## Capella (Jun 29, 2018)

Instead of banning smoking (which really would not work, because serious smokers really can't go four hours without a fag and will be very difficult to convince to even try), just put a healthy fine on leaving your cigarette butts anywhere on the course (which is a complete no-go anyway, no matter what the weather is like, because those things just won't rot and are disgusting). Make sure to put up a sign in the pro-shop right next to a display of in-pocket ashtrays. Those things cost less than a packet of cigarettes usually, and there is really no reason in the world why anyone ever should leave cigarette butts behind.


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## Slab (Jun 29, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I am sure that options were discussed.  The fact is the course is absolutely tinder dry...
		
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Probably best just to close up for the time being and wait it out and hopefully you get some rain soon


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 29, 2018)

Capella said:



			Instead of banning smoking (which really would not work, because serious smokers really can't go four hours without a fag and will be very difficult to convince to even try), just put a healthy fine on leaving your cigarette butts anywhere on the course (which is a complete no-go anyway, no matter what the weather is like, because those things just won't rot and are disgusting). Make sure to put up a sign in the pro-shop right next to a display of in-pocket ashtrays. Those things cost less than a packet of cigarettes usually, and there is really no reason in the world why anyone ever should leave cigarette butts behind.
		
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I remember as a kid, 1980's, standing in line at an airport ready to board a flight and hearing smokers say how they couldn't wait to get on the plane so that they could light up. Chain smoking was quite common and 'they couldn't possibly last 3 hours on a flight without a tag'. Roll on 30 years and smoking is banned in airports and on flights. Flying has never been more popular though.

The point being, people adapt if they have no choice. If smoking is temporarily banned because of the current situation then people will manage. Those few who can't survive a round of golf without a ciggie, truly can not, will be so few as to be negligible.


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## Slab (Jun 29, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I remember as a kid, 1980's, standing in line at an airport ready to board a flight and hearing smokers say how they couldn't wait to get on the plane so that they could light up. Chain smoking was quite common and 'they couldn't possibly last 3 hours on a flight without a tag'. Roll on 30 years and smoking is banned in airports and on flights. Flying has never been more popular though.

The point being, people adapt if they have no choice. If smoking is temporarily banned because of the current situation then people will manage. Those few who can't survive a round of golf without a ciggie, truly can not, will be so few as to be negligible.
		
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Off topic now but I remember sparking up on a plane, train, bus, cinema, offices, shops, hospital bed (as a patient) & even back of an ambulance next to that big air tank thingy

With a CV like that surely_ I _could be trusted on a golf course


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 29, 2018)

Slab said:



			Off topic now but I remember sparking up on a plane, train, bus, cinema, offices, shops, hospital bed (as a patient) & even back of an ambulance next to that big air tank thingy

With a CV like that surely_ I _could be trusted on a golf course 

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Twas a different time back then, when smokers ruled the world and all ceilings were yellowed &#128561;.


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## Slab (Jun 29, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Twas a different time back then, when smokers ruled the world and all ceilings were yellowed &#128561;.
		
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Yup, and everyone said it would stunt your gro... oops sorry LT


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## JamesR (Jun 29, 2018)

Well SiLH, it would appear Farnham isn't the only course taking this course of action:

http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/news/...1.1723482972.1530261411-1681254769.1461586884


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 29, 2018)

After playing for the last couple of days most courses ( especially without fairway irrigation ) are just a spark away in certain areas from going up in flames so itâ€™s no surprise and common sense now to just reduce the risks 

Smokers can go without cig for a few hours - they donâ€™t have issues on planes and trains etc


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 29, 2018)

Slab said:



			Yup, and everyone said it would stunt your gro... oops sorry LT





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&#128513;&#128514;&#127867;


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## xreyuk (Jun 29, 2018)

Just joined my club today, first email I got was able email to all members saying be extra vigilant with cigarette ends, and that they would be putting bins out to put them out on and dispose of the ends.


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## IanM (Jun 29, 2018)

Yep, dogends donâ€™t count as litter, chuck em anywhere. Fire? Oh sorry, thought It was outðŸ¤ª

Ok, not all smokers are that daft, but Iâ€™ve played with folk whose actions would lead you to think theyâ€™d say the above.

On Bude and St Enodoc this week... burnt right out, high chance of fire.  St E issued instructions about smoking yesterday.


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## JamesR (Jun 29, 2018)

Our weekly newsletter included a friendly reminder for the smokers to be careful how they dispose of their fag ends, along with a link to the GM article I attached to an earlier post.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 2, 2018)

There's a 1ft square patch of burnt grass at the very front of one of our greens - at a point where a player going onto the green would walk and where a smoker would discard a fag end...

Pure conjecture of course...but can't imagine what else would cause the burnt patch.


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## mashleyR7 (Jul 2, 2018)

Full smoking ban introduced at Littlestone today until further notice. Emails been sent out by the director.


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## Slab (Jul 2, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			There's a 1ft square patch of burnt grass at the very front of one of our greens - at a point where a player going onto the green would walk and where a smoker would discard a fag end...

Pure conjecture of course...but can't imagine what else would cause the burnt patch.
		
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Could have been a petite witch burning or some other sacrifice to golfing gods (maybe even alignment sticks rubbing together caused a spark!)
That close to the green I would foresee a chip and we all know how many chipper fires are started each year 

You're just not thinking outside the box (or outside the fag packet)


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## User2021 (Jul 2, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			There's a 1ft square patch of burnt grass at the very front of one of our greens - at a point where a player going onto the green would walk and where a smoker would discard a fag end...

Pure conjecture of course...but can't imagine what else would cause the burnt patch.
		
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work of the devil


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## bobmac (Jul 2, 2018)

Could have been an oil leak from a mower


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 2, 2018)

Slab said:



			Could have been a petite witch burning or some other sacrifice to golfing gods (maybe even alignment sticks rubbing together caused a spark!)
That close to the green I would foresee a chip and we all know how many chipper fires are started each year 

You're just not thinking outside the box (or outside the fag packet) 

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It was actually on the green - but you are right - not far from the fringe so I suppose a spark from a chip could have been a possible source


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 2, 2018)

bobmac said:



			Could have been an oil leak from a mower
		
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Thought it might have been - but didn't look like one...no burning or other black marks that would be caused by a drip...


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## Val (Jul 2, 2018)

mashleyR7 said:



			Full smoking ban introduced at Littlestone today until further notice. Emails been sent out by the director.
		
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Likewise at Wallasey


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## Qwerty (Jul 2, 2018)

Likewise at BoL.

Nice gesture also by the club.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BoltonOldLinks/status/1013368513522798594


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 2, 2018)

Qwerty said:



			Likewise at BoL.

Nice gesture also by the club.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BoltonOldLinks/status/1013368513522798594

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Great touch by them. It must be hot and unpleasant work on the moors.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 2, 2018)

No Fire Brigade appliances in the station down the road from me.  They will be out patrolling the heathland and commons all around us.  There have been some pretty bad heathland fires around us in the past - one on Frensham Common starting 12th July July 2010 was particularly bad and extensive - the heathland has only now just about recovered.  Mind you - it has provided a perfect 'scorched earth' setting for quite a few films over the years - and that is the actual ecological disaster of these fires.


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## drdel (Jul 2, 2018)

Fag ends are litter. Why do we pamper to idiots who litter the golf course? It makes sense to ban smoking on the course during this abnormally dry spell.

If you want to smoke while playing golf carry your own container and stick your fag end in it.

Courses could help by providing metal buckets/bins containing sand for fag ends much like many used in smoking areas at places of works.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 2, 2018)

when i was in Cyprus i saw how quickly bush fires started out there and how devastating they could be if not caught quick - i remember when we doing an exercise in mid summer  and being an "enemy" for a bunch of Pongos on warm weather training and we were on a hill - you could see them coming and this complete clown of a rodney decided to throw a flare despite being told the dangers - the dry grass where it landed caught fire immediately bu thankfully a couple of us could see what could happen and managed using jackets and our water to get it out quick - Our Sgt gave this plank a right earful ( he then attempted to charge him ) but that could have easily caused a fire miles wide in no matter of time and thats what a lot of golf courses will be like right now so any sensible one should be banning smoking right now - im sure people can survive without a fag for a little bit


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## Tashyboy (Jul 2, 2018)

Played on Friday in our pit golf day. We got to our 16th tee and there was a couple of nub ends just stubbed out on the floor. How people cannot se the dangers is beyond me.


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## Slab (Jul 5, 2018)

As the focus for the cause of the Saddleworth fire has moved to a bonfire (& arson) that was reported less than an hour before the moor fire was reported I went to a few golf websites and horrified to see that while smoking is curtailed it makes no mention that bonfires are banned!

That canâ€™t be good



Ok just flippant I know as its only prudent to have some fire risk measures, including the risk from smoking, but maybe not a devil smoker after all


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## MegaSteve (Jul 5, 2018)

Slab said:



			As the focus for the cause of the Saddleworth fire has moved to a bonfire (& arson) that was reported less than an hour before the moor fire was reported I went to a few golf websites and horrified to see that while smoking is curtailed it makes no mention that bonfires are banned!

That canâ€™t be good



Ok just flippant I know as its only prudent to have some fire risk measures, including the risk from smoking, but maybe not a devil smoker after all
		
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Folk that might take the trouble to read notices will often dismiss the message as not being aimed at them...
As they know best...

Couple of open spaces near us which are popular for visitors during times of good weather...
Despite many notices saying open fires, BBQ's etc are banned...
There have total idiots ignoring said notices despite it being blindingly obvious the grass and surrounding undergrowth are tinder dry...


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## Jamesbrown (Jul 5, 2018)

To start a fire with a cigarette, you need a really good wind and  very low humidity. 
I could barely get a flame with a magnifying glass the other day with dry grass. 
This thread took me Back to my arson teen days. 
We used to set fire to pallets we stole off a building site in a tall dry grass field and throw  Tesco value deodorant cans on it. I canâ€™t remember any field going up and we could of had the fire brigade out every day. 
Throwing cigarettes on petrol doesnâ€™t work. 

What does go up well though believe it or not, are conifers! 

Thereâ€™s certainly a small risk of fire, but being an ex smoker, a smoker will still smoke! A ban will achieve only hopefully more diligence.


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## hovis (Jul 5, 2018)

Jamesbrown said:



			To start a fire with a cigarette, you need a really good wind and  very low humidity. 
I could barely get a flame with a magnifying glass the other day with dry grass. 
This thread took me Back to my arson teen days. 
We used to set fire to pallets we stole off a building site in a tall dry grass field and throw  Tesco value deodorant cans on it. I canâ€™t remember any field going up and we could of had the fire brigade out every day. 
Throwing cigarettes on petrol doesnâ€™t work. 

What does go up well though believe it or not, are conifers! 

Thereâ€™s certainly a small risk of fire, but being an ex smoker, a smoker will still smoke! A ban will achieve only hopefully more diligence.
		
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we get called out to conifer fires all the time.  they go up like roman candles.  like you also said, getting a fire to start with a cigarette is very difficult


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 5, 2018)

Slab said:



			As the focus for the cause of the Saddleworth fire has moved to a bonfire (& arson) that was reported less than an hour before the moor fire was reported I went to a few golf websites and horrified to see that while smoking is curtailed it makes no mention that bonfires are banned!

That canâ€™t be good



Ok just flippant I know as its only prudent to have some fire risk measures, including the risk from smoking, but maybe not a devil smoker after all
		
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You really have taken the smoking ban at certain courses to heart havenâ€™t you - ignoring the fact that itâ€™s going to be a touch safer on the course as well as helping your health in the longer run I really canâ€™t see why anyone would have an issue with a course adding a smoking ban - I would actually like to see if permanent , itâ€™s only going to have a positive affect on the course and peopleâ€™s health 

And who is going to start a bonfire on the course ? Really - only the ground staff at my place start bonfires and itâ€™s only in the winter - i very much doubt any club needs to have a â€œno bonfire ruleâ€

My club are also prob going to cancel the fireworks that were planned for sat evening Stars and Stripes Social function - again common sense


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## Slab (Jul 6, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You really have taken the smoking ban at certain courses to heart havenâ€™t you -* ignoring the fact that itâ€™s going to be a touch safer on the course* as well as helping your health in the longer run *I really canâ€™t see why anyone would have an issue with a course adding a smoking ban - I would actually like to see if permanent , itâ€™s only going to have a positive affect on the course* and peopleâ€™s health 

*And who is going to start a bonfire on the course ?* Really - only the ground staff at my place start bonfires and itâ€™s only in the winter - i very much doubt any club needs to have a â€œno bonfire ruleâ€

My club are also prob going to cancel the fireworks that were planned for sat evening Stars and Stripes Social function - again common sense
		
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1st Bold, I didn't ignore it, try reading the post (to help its the bit where I say _"its only prudent to have some fire risk measures, including the risk from smoking"_

2nd bold, See its that 'tar all smokers with the same brush' thing again (see what I did there using the word Tar.. no probably not) Anyway just because there's inconsiderate smokers doesn't mean we all are. If we followed that logic no one would ever visit Liverpool

3rd bold I wasn't serious about bonfires, try reading the post (to help its the bit where I say _"Ok just flippant I know")_

Jeez


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## srixon 1 (Jul 10, 2018)

Playing in a charity day today at Remedy and smoking is banned on the course.


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## bobmac (Jul 10, 2018)

I'd be interested to hear if any courses keep the smoking ban after the fire risk is over


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## IanM (Jul 10, 2018)

Big sign on the 1st tee at Celtic Manor on Saturday.... _no smoking on course due to fire risk_.  Off the (watered) fairway, it the colour of straw!

Its only sensible


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## Capella (Jul 10, 2018)

Our course has posted "Due to the dry conditions and the fire hazard they cause we thank you for not smoking on the course" signs up all over the place. Don't seem to bother the smokers much. Lady I played with on Sunday smoked like a chimney the whole way round. In her defence: She did use an ashtray atttached to her trolley. Still, I don't know where people find the nerve to just disregard the signs. I would die of shame.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 10, 2018)

Capella said:



			Our course has posted "Due to the dry conditions and the fire hazard they cause we thank you for not smoking on the course" signs up all over the place. Don't seem to bother the smokers much. Lady I played with on Sunday smoked like a chimney the whole way round. In her defence: She did use an ashtray atttached to her trolley. Still, I don't know where people find the nerve to just disregard the signs. I would die of shame.
		
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An ashtray attached to her trolley, that is a serious smoker. I bet she is the one German who crosses the road when the person is on red, a real rule breaker


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## patricks148 (Jul 10, 2018)

won't be a problem up here today, its pee'd it down all morning, normal service resumed


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## Captainron (Jul 10, 2018)

bobmac said:



			I'd be interested to hear if any courses keep the smoking ban after the fire risk is over
		
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Would love them all to do so.


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## clubchamp98 (Jul 10, 2018)

Capella said:



			Our course has posted "Due to the dry conditions and the fire hazard they cause we thank you for not smoking on the course" signs up all over the place. Don't seem to bother the smokers much. Lady I played with on Sunday smoked like a chimney the whole way round. In her defence: She did use an ashtray atttached to her trolley. Still, I don't know where people find the nerve to just disregard the signs. I would die of shame.
		
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Thatâ€™s not a ban though is it ! .the sign should readâ€ No smoking by order of The committee â€œ
Anyone caught should be asked to leave the course.


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## Capella (Jul 11, 2018)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thatâ€™s not a ban though is it ! .the sign should readâ€ No smoking by order of The committee â€œ
Anyone caught should be asked to leave the course.
		
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Valid point. Especially in Germany. If you want people to not do something you really have to say: "X is forbidden under the penalty of Y". A simple "Please don't do that" or "Thank you for not doing that" is never going to cut it. Drives me nuts, though. Why can't people just be consderate?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 11, 2018)

We have now banned smoking from the course - a few arenâ€™t happy with it but the majority understand it


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 11, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Iâ€™m sure the people who smoke on golf courses will ensure that the fag is completey out
		
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Did you point this out to your club?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 11, 2018)

Had an email from the club saying smoking now banned. Members seemed to have adhered to it (and only a few mutterings) but the message not getting through to green fees and saw several smoking on the course last night. With no marshal operating how is the club supposed to police that? One thing to mention it when they pay a green fee but another for them to stick to it. At least the membership are self-policing


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## shortgame (Jul 11, 2018)

HomerJSimpson said:



			but the message not getting through to green fees and saw several smoking on the course last night. With no marshal operating how is the club supposed to police that?
		
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Poor form - crazy they wouldn't comply, assuming they were told beforehand

Impossible to police really, same as making sure visitors replace divots, repair divots etc - down to their respect for the game and the  course

Did they comply when you informed them?


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## Jamesbrown (Jul 11, 2018)

Smokers wouldnâ€™t stop smoking with a ban in place. I used to be one. Iâ€™d of snubbed my nose at it, but been more diligent. 
At work smokers are supposed to smoke in designated areas. It doesnâ€™t happen. 

If someone was told to stop doing something they enjoy doing. Most will not comply.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 11, 2018)

shortgame said:



			Poor form - crazy they wouldn't comply, assuming they were told beforehand

Impossible to police really, same as making sure visitors replace divots, repair divots etc - down to their respect for the game and the  course

Did they comply when you informed them?
		
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On the hole I saw them on but as we were going in opposite directions (they were on front nine and I was going down 15) I doubt they'd have stuck to it


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