# Nico and Lewis



## Tommo21 (Nov 27, 2016)

Did any of you get the impression when Lewis slowed down that none of the drivers behind Nico were going to pass him.


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## ger147 (Nov 27, 2016)

Tommo21 said:



			Did any of you get the impression when Lewis slowed down that none of the drivers behind Nico were going to pass him.
		
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If Vettel or Verstappen could have got anywhere near close enough they would have a flung one up the inside in a heartbeat, absolutely no hesitation...


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## delc (Nov 27, 2016)

Tommo21 said:



			Did any of you get the impression when Lewis slowed down that none of the drivers behind Nico were going to pass him.
		
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Vettel had a go, but failed. I think by that stage of the race Verstappen's tyres were pretty shot.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 27, 2016)

Thought Hamiltons tactics were spot on. Could not understand Hamilton being told to speed up. if Rosberg overtook Hamilton he would not of ended up whinging. Bottom line was Rosberg was not good enough or quick enough to pass Hamilton. The title was won and lost over reliability.


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## Cherry13 (Nov 27, 2016)

Yeh i agree, nothing to really base it off but would think Seb was happier with Rosberg winning; fellow 'German', and prevents Ham equalling his WDC tally.  

Think Mercedes got the call wrong and the FIA need to get a handle on the fact that teams prioritise the constructors championship over the drivers championship, but fans see it the other way.


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## Cherry13 (Nov 27, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Thought Hamiltons tactics were spot on. Could not understand Hamilton being told to speed up. if Rosberg overtook Hamilton he would not of ended up whinging. Bottom line was Rosberg was not good enough or quick enough to pass Hamilton. The title was won and lost over reliability.
		
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Whilst i agree it would have stopped the whinging, and silenced a lot of critiiscm unfortunately in F1 these days you need to be about 1.6sec quicker if in the same car to get past.  They still need to do more to address the 'dirty' air that comes from the rear


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## Tashyboy (Nov 27, 2016)

Cherry13 said:



			Whilst i agree it would have stopped the whinging, and silenced a lot of critiiscm unfortunately in F1 these days you need to be about 1.6sec quicker if in the same car to get past.  They still need to do more to address the 'dirty' air that comes from the rear
		
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what made me chuckle re Rosberg is that when Hamilton was in the non DRS zone he slowed it up. When Hamilton was in the DRS zone he pulled away from Rosberg so Rosberg could not use DRS. 
joe public tunes in to see drivers race not to listen to the owners telling the drivers what to do. Understand team orders, but both were doing what they needed to do to win the title. Hamilton dictating the race from start to finish and Rosberg whinging.
nice finish to a season.


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## Cherry13 (Nov 27, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			what made me chuckle re Rosberg is that when Hamilton was in the non DRS zone he slowed it up. When Hamilton was in the DRS zone he pulled away from Rosberg so Rosberg could not use DRS. 
joe public tunes in to see drivers race not to listen to the owners telling the drivers what to do. Understand team orders, but both were doing what they needed to do to win the title. Hamilton dictating the race from start to finish and Rosberg whinging.
nice finish to a season.
		
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Hamilton was in an absolutely different class all wkend always had a bit extra.  I wouldn't be surprised if he had engine turned right down and if vettel did get past rosberg he would have just shot off into the distance regardless of vettels fresher tyres. Ch4 commentary was alluding to 8 seconds slower than max pace which is astonishing. 

Toto Wolff was clearly annoyed that horner had called that tactic pre-race as well and they obviously hadn't discussed it with Lewis.  

I agree about the orders, I just think it's down to priorities.  Fans talk about which driver wins, but the teams get money from the constructors championship.  I know the two obviously go hand in hand but merc thought they were just trying to protect that. Until the FIA align team priorities and what the fans want then that unfortunately won't change.  

Be interesting to see if Mercedes do anything about him disobeying team orders, I hope they just let it settle and everyone moves on over the summer but I have a feeling Lauda wants rid of Lewis Hamilton so may use it to instigate something bigger.  Play on the fact he's not a team player etc.  Long term I definitely see a vettel and Lewis swap happening.


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## Smiffy (Nov 28, 2016)

Cherry13 said:



			Toto Wolff was clearly annoyed that Horner had called that tactic pre-race as well and they obviously hadn't discussed it with Lewis.
		
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You can bet your bottom dollar that _*everybody*_ within the Mercedes camp knew what Lewis was going to try to do after the final round of pitstops were out of the way. 
It was the only option he had left once the race had settled down with Roseberg still running in 2nd place.
_*Any *_driver on the grid, given the same scenario, would have employed the same tactic, despite what Vettel is saying now about "dirty tricks".
Remember the famous "multi 21" order he himself chose to ignore in Malaysia a couple of years ago which basically cost Mark Webber a race win?
I wanted Hamilton to win the championship. I'm not a "fanboy" but I'm English, he's English. 
Rosberg won the championship simply because he was driving the 2nd fastest car on the grid and was in the perfect position to pick up on any of Hamiltons mistakes during the season.
Any one of a dozen other drivers who were out there yesterday would now be world champion had they been sitting in the other Merc all season.
Hamilton is one of the best drivers out there, if not *the* best. Alonso is the only one who comes close but has been struggling in a pig of a car.
The only downer for me yesterday was the lack of respect Hamilton showed to Rosberg after the race. Had he congratulated Rosberg "properly" and meant it, it would have done a lot for his reputation. Being gracious in defeat is the sign of a true champion, and I fear all he has done is added more fuel to the "Hammy haters" fires.
Highlight of the day for me was David Coulthard on the rostrum after the race asking Hamilton to shake Rosbergs hand again because the cameras had missed it. "There's the love" he said. Brought a wry smile to my face that did.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 28, 2016)

Do the teams get bonuses for race wins? If not, I can't understand why the team would have told Hamilton to speed up. They were already guaranteed the Constructors Championship and one of their two drivers were already guaranteed to win the Drivers Championship.

If the stats above are accurate about needing to be 1.6 seconds per lap faster to overtake and Hamilton was driving 8 seconds a lap slower than max pace then why didn't Rosberg simply drive up behind him and overtake?


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## Smiffy (Nov 28, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Do the teams get bonuses for race wins? If not, I can't understand why the team would have told Hamilton to speed up. They were already guaranteed the Constructors Championship and one of their two drivers were already guaranteed to win the Drivers Championship.

If the stats above are accurate about needing to be 1.6 seconds per lap faster to overtake and Hamilton was driving 8 seconds a lap slower than max pace then why didn't Rosberg simply drive up behind him and overtake?
		
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They were concerned that Hamiltons tactics could have allowed either Vettel or Verstappen to overtake both of them and deny them a 1-2 finish. Whilst it was feasible for Vettel to overtake Rosberg, Hamilton had enough left in the tank to stay clear of Vettel. Where it all went wrong for Hamilton was Verstappens tyres gave up the ghost towards the latter stages. He would not have been able to do anything about Rosberg that late in the race.
Hamilton was playing the game perfectly. He had the pace to stay ahead of Rosberg easily, that's why he was accelerating away whenever he got near a DRS activation zone to deny Rosberg the chance to employ it.
It set up a thrilling end to the season, just a shame he didn't start his tactics 5 laps earlier. It might have reaped more of a reward.


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## Slab (Nov 28, 2016)

Hamilton annoys me in the same way Rory does but Iâ€™m still pretty much ok with the way he drove and see it as symptomatic of the farce that is F1 these days (I mean seriously, running slow to back your team-mate into traffic. For the sport of F1 that is ridiculous!)

In the past when a driver is 2nd in the championship thereâ€™s any one of a hundred things that could happen in a race to bunch the field or bring out safety car with punctures, mechanical failures, crashes etc that a driver in Hamiltonâ€™s position would need to rely on the get the WC win, (itâ€™s just that Hamilton wanted 101 things) and if it didnâ€™t happen theyâ€™d (mostly) be magnanimous in defeat instead of going in a strop & ignoring the winner...




Actually I'm not really OK with it, he should have floored it, drove flat out, won it by a mile and said well done Nico


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## User62651 (Nov 28, 2016)

Until all drivers are in equal cars we'll never know who the best driver is. It's like 100m sprinters starting in different positions ahead or behind of the start line. Any driver in F1 given a Merc would be first or second at present. Pointless.


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## Fyldewhite (Nov 28, 2016)

Can see both sides on the tactics yesterday tbh. He still won the race so there'll be no major aftermath. Also, I think some of the comments would be entirely different if the positions had been reversed. Lewis did what he could, made it difficult for Nico who didn't (as I thought he might) bottle it.....so well done to him. Forget all the reliability conspiracies, Lewis lost this championship in the first 4 races when Nico was completely focused, carried on the same form from the end of last season and Lewis was still on the beach. I thought the coming together in Spain was a sign of his impatience and to an extent his concern that he wasn't performing where he should be. No doubt who's the better overall driver and the career statistics will show that but this year he got beat. Won't do the princess any harm.


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## ger147 (Nov 28, 2016)

Fyldewhite said:



			Can see both sides on the tactics yesterday tbh. He still won the race so there'll be no major aftermath. Also, I think some of the comments would be entirely different if the positions had been reversed. Lewis did what he could, made it difficult for Nico who didn't (as I thought he might) bottle it.....so well done to him. Forget all the reliability conspiracies, Lewis lost this championship in the first 4 races when Nico was completely focused, carried on the same form from the end of last season and Lewis was still on the beach. I thought the coming together in Spain was a sign of his impatience and to an extent his concern that he wasn't performing where he should be. No doubt who's the better overall driver and the career statistics will show that but this year he got beat. Won't do the princess any harm.
		
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Hamilton at fault at the first two races but he had mechanical issues both in China and Russia which put him down the grid so not all his own doing.


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## Fyldewhite (Nov 28, 2016)

ger147 said:



			Hamilton at fault at the first two races but he had mechanical issues both in China and Russia which put him down the grid so not all his own doing.
		
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Yeah, fair enough but he just didn't seem to be "on it" in the way he usually is. Some pretty poor starts thrown in there too which didn't help. Overall though a better season for F1 aside from the qualifying change which was just comical until they binned it!! Mercedes still dominant but the others are getting closer....let's hope it's much closer with next year's changes. Would love to see a grid every week with half a dozen genuine contenders for the win.


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## delc (Nov 28, 2016)

ger147 said:



			If Vettel or Verstappen could have got anywhere near close enough they would have a flung one up the inside in a heartbeat, absolutely no hesitation...
		
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If Lewis was driving that slowly, surely all that Nico had to do was overtake him. Even if they took each other out, Nico would still have won the World Championship.  The point is that Lewis is such a superior driver that he could slow Nico down without giving him any realistic overtaking opportunities.


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## Fyldewhite (Nov 28, 2016)

delc said:



			If Lewis was driving that slowly, surely all that Nico had to do was overtake him. Even if they took each other out, Nico would still have won the World Championship.  The point is that Lewis is such a superior driver that he could slow Nico down without giving him any realistic overtaking opportunities.
		
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It's one thing to overtake a slow car, but quite another to overtake a fast car being driven slowly. I agree Lewis is the superior driver but not that his ability to slow the field was something that shows that. Most of the drivers out there could have done that quite easily had they been in the same position. It wasn't difficult at all.


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## ger147 (Nov 28, 2016)

delc said:



			If Lewis was driving that slowly, surely all that Nico had to do was overtake him. Even if they took each other out, Nico would still have won the World Championship.  The point is that Lewis is such a superior driver that he could slow Nico down without giving him any realistic overtaking opportunities.
		
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For large parts of the circuit it is impossible to overtake, so you can out in really slow lap times (as Hamilton did) thus allowing the cars further behind to catch you up, but by driving quickly for a few short stretches of track also make it nigh on impossible to be overtaken.

I thought Hamilton did it brilliantly yesterday, was a great attempt at all he could do to force Rosberg back towards the pack, but fair play to Rosberg as well.

When he had to he passed Verstappen (NOT easy) and he withstood the pressure at the end and got the result he needed to clinch his WC.


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## hovis (Nov 28, 2016)

slowing down to back up the field in hope that your title rival gets overtaken is wrong and unsporting.   says alot about his character


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## chrisd (Nov 28, 2016)

If I were Hamilton id have wanted to win the championship so would have done exactly the same thing. I absolutely agree with Smiffy that Hamilton was a complete knob at the end with his reaction to Rosberg and the humility needed to be a REAL champion


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## Paperboy (Nov 28, 2016)

chrisd said:



			If I were Hamilton id have wanted to win the championship so would have done exactly the same thing. I absolutely agree with Smiffy that Hamilton was a complete knob at the end with his reaction to Rosberg and the humility needed to be a REAL champion
		
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I agree with everything you've said Chris, but Rosberg has hardly been the best loser in the past when Hamilton has won the championship.

Both are very bad losers, one a very good driver the other a good driver.


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 28, 2016)

Yu have give Rosberg his due, he won the title and the points table doesn't lie. Hamilton was undone at Malaysia with his engine failure, and without it would be the champ again. He is the he better driver of the 2 , no question, but I do think his early season "aura" wasn't dedicated enough to the task in hand with too much extra curricular activities going on.
It does seem obvious to me though that the Mercedes top brass wanted a Rosberg win more than that Brit Hamilton, and I think that in due course Hamilton will be off to another team, whether McLaren can get it back together or Ferrari but I think his next contract won't be where he is now.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 28, 2016)

I barely watch F1 now, dull with only 2 cars in contention plus I find Hamilton painfully self obsessed. The last few years have been a Mercedes bore fest, not their fault. Is anyone going to catch them next year or will it be more of the same?


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## ger147 (Nov 28, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I barely watch F1 now, dull with only 2 cars in contention plus I find Hamilton painfully self obsessed. The last few years have been a Mercedes bore fest, not their fault. Is anyone going to catch them next year or will it be more of the same?
		
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F1 has always been the same and I've been watching it for 30+ years. One team winning pretty much every race is nothing new.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 28, 2016)

Oh, I get that. Ferrari and Schumacher, Red Bull and Vettel. It just feels as though Mercedes are further away from the pack than past teams who dominated. Rosberg and Hamilton only have to beat 1 person to become world champ. Schumacher & Vettel were occasionally pushed by other teams on certain tracks but that doesn't even seem to be the case this year or last.


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## ger147 (Nov 28, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Oh, I get that. Ferrari and Schumacher, Red Bull and Vettel. It just feels as though Mercedes are further away from the pack than past teams who dominated. Rosberg and Hamilton only have to beat 1 person to become world champ. Schumacher & Vettel were occasionally pushed by other teams on certain tracks but that doesn't even seem to be the case this year or last.
		
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In several of those seasons, Schumacher didn't have to beat anyone as his team mate was contractually obliged to move over and let him past whenever required.

Ans going back further still, you had Senna and Prost won every race bar one between them in a McLaren etc.

As I said, the one team dominance of Mercedes is nothing new.


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## wrighty1874 (Nov 28, 2016)

Last year when Hamilton won, they introduced a new rule during the season that double points were on offer for the last race, so Rosberg could still catch him.Why wasn't Hamilton afforded the same privilege?


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## chrisd (Nov 28, 2016)

Paperboy said:



			I agree with everything you've said Chris, but Rosberg has hardly been the best loser in the past when Hamilton has won the championship.

Both are very bad losers, one a very good driver the other a good driver.
		
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I agree Simon, they should both act like adults


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 28, 2016)

ger147 said:



			In several of those seasons, Schumacher didn't have to beat anyone as his team mate was contractually obliged to move over and let him past whenever required.

Ans going back further still, you had Senna and Prost won every race bar one between them in a McLaren etc.

As I said, the one team dominance of Mercedes is nothing new.
		
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That is selective memory for you . I had forgotten how Irvine used to pull over for Schumacher. You are right, it is nothing new.


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## ger147 (Nov 28, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That is selective memory for you . I had forgotten how Irvine used to pull over for Schumacher. You are right, it is nothing new.
		
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Aye, Schumacher won 12 of the first 13 races one year and clinched the WC with 6 races left.  By comparison, the Hamilton vs Rosberg competition of the last 3 years has been reasonably entertaining.

But I also agree with your overall point i.e. it's hard to get excited about a competition when only 2 drivers can win.


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## Fyldewhite (Nov 28, 2016)

wrighty1874 said:



			Last year when Hamilton won, they introduced a new rule during the season that double points were on offer for the last race, so Rosberg could still catch him.Why wasn't Hamilton afforded the same privilege?
		
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That was in 2014 wasn't it?

"....so Rosberg could still catch him"   Hmmm, as it was at the start of the season (announced Dec 2013) how on earth could it favour one or the other? I've a feeling it was to have a better chance that the season would go to the last race...I may be wrong though, maybe it was just another example of the anti Lewis conspiracy LOL.


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## Craigg (Nov 28, 2016)

maxfli65 said:



			Until all drivers are in equal cars we'll never know who the best driver is. It's like 100m sprinters starting in different positions ahead or behind of the start line. Any driver in F1 given a Merc would be first or second at present. Pointless.
		
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What a load of tosh.


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## User62651 (Nov 28, 2016)

Craigg said:



			What a load of tosh.
		
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Tosh but still a fact! Alonso is arguably the best driver yet is in a slow car so can't win or even place - yes?


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## Smiffy (Nov 28, 2016)

hovis said:



			slowing down to back up the field in hope that your title rival gets overtaken is wrong and unsporting.   says alot about his character
		
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A Hammy hater!!! 
So you think he should have put pedal to the metal and disappeared into the horizon then???


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## Craigg (Nov 28, 2016)

maxfli65 said:



			Tosh but still a fact! Alonso is arguably the best driver yet is in a slow car so can't win or even place - yes?
		
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I agree, there are a select few that could probably do the Merc justice, Alonso being one of them, but any F1 driver? I think not. It takes more than a fast car to make a fast driver.


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## MegaSteve (Nov 28, 2016)

If Nico drove with some of the verve of dad Keke I might find him a bit easier to warm to...


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 28, 2016)

I was quite pleased to see that he didn't win and not surprised that he showed little grace in defeat , it's how Hamilton is and prob part of the reason he is ruthless as a driver. Don't think it will be too long until he leaves Merc


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 28, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I was quite pleased to see that he didn't win and not surprised that he showed little grace in defeat , it's how Hamilton is and prob part of the reason he is ruthless as a driver. Don't think it will be too long until he leaves Merc
		
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But aren't those self obsesed self centred traits the same ones we wish our European golfers have compared to the Americans? The trouble is as Brits we love the "well done old chap, you beat me but I dont mind" attitude, but that doesn't make you the best. Hamilton may act like a spoilt child at times, but as a racer is he top of the tree with a very select few. Verstappen will be there very soon.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 28, 2016)

Bunkermagnet said:



			But aren't those self obsesed self centred traits the same ones we wish our European golfers have compared to the Americans? The trouble is as Brits we love the "well done old chap, you beat me but I dont mind" attitude, but that doesn't make you the best. Hamilton may act like a spoilt child at times, but as a racer is he top of the tree with a very select few. Verstappen will be there very soon.
		
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No don't want to see those self obsessed self centred traits when they get beaten - gracious when they win and lose , doesn't mean someone can't be competitive 

He is a very good driver and no probs with his determination but when he doesn't win the championship I fully expect there to a good loser as well as a good winner. That should be the same in any sport


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 28, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No don't want to see those self obsessed self centred traits when they get beaten - gracious when they win and lose , doesn't mean someone can't be competitive 

He is a very good driver and no probs with his determination but when he doesn't win the championship I fully expect there to a good loser as well as a good winner. That should be the same in any sport
		
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But would you not also be pissed off if your team bosses kept coming over the radio telling you how to race? It was obvious who they wanted to win by the way they kept asking him.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 28, 2016)

Bunkermagnet said:



			But would you not also be pissed off if your team bosses kept coming over the radio telling you how to race? It was obvious who they wanted to win by the way they kept asking him.
		
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Again that doesn't stop him being gracious in defeat - yes be angry at his team bosses but I believe they wanted a 1-2 result and regardless what Hamilton believes - the people that pay his massive wages are the team and they have priorities. That's not Rosbergs fault though - he won the title fair and square and the least Hamilton could have done is show just the smallest amount of graciousness to his teammate


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## Alex1975 (Nov 28, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Thought Hamiltons tactics were spot on. Could not understand Hamilton being told to speed up. if Rosberg overtook Hamilton he would not of ended up whinging. Bottom line was Rosberg was not good enough or quick enough to pass Hamilton. The title was won and lost over reliability.
		
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:thup:

Its as simple as that. Merc need to be very careful they don't over control this stuff. I pay to watch those races and if I think Toto is making it not fun by literally stopping true motor racing it will be a very bad deal! 


ITS RACING!! Let them race.

(I know its not really motor racing, its advertising but dressed up as motor racing)


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 28, 2016)

Alex1975 said:



			:thup:

Its as simple as that. Merc need to be very careful they don't over control this stuff. I pay to watch those races and if I think Toto is making it not fun by literally stopping true motor racing it will be a very bad deal! 


ITS RACING!! Let them race.

(I know its not really motor racing, its advertising but dressed up as motor racing)
		
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At least it's more racing than when Ferrari were top dogs.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 28, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again that doesn't stop him being gracious in defeat - yes be angry at his team bosses but I believe they wanted a 1-2 result and regardless what Hamilton believes - the people that pay his massive wages are the team and they have priorities. That's not Rosbergs fault though - he won the title fair and square and the least Hamilton could have done is show just the smallest amount of graciousness to his teammate
		
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If you watched it you will see that he did,if you did see it then your last statement is completely false.


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## Alex1975 (Nov 28, 2016)

Bunkermagnet said:



			At least it's more racing than when Ferrari were top dogs.
		
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 I'm a life long Schumacher fan.... those were the golden years 

Not happy when Hill crashed into him  (Bennetton)


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## larmen (Nov 28, 2016)

Bunkermagnet said:



			But would you not also be pissed off if your team bosses kept coming over the radio telling you how to race? It was obvious who they wanted to win by the way they kept asking him.
		
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The team bosses want a 1-2 finish, not a 1-4 or even a 1-dnf. They pay, they want to maximise the result.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 28, 2016)

Thought Hamilton did the right thing in the context of the race and clearly was undone by the reliability of his engine. Strange how one could be faultless all season and one couldn't There has to be something in that somewhere and I think the bosses wanted Rosberg to get his world championship. Hamilton is the best driver out there. It would have been nice if both had acted more maturely throughout the season but there you go. I wonder if there is a push to ease Hamilton out and if so where does he go as the other cars are clearly a way behind at the moment


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## pokerjoke (Nov 28, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			If you watched it you will see that he did,if you did see it then your last statement is completely false.
		
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Nothing to add Phil I mean how did you fail to see the embrace and handshake and some nice words

No pictures on 5 live


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## GeeJay (Nov 28, 2016)

I think Lewis missed an opportunity to show himself to be 'the bigger man', but maybe he just doesn't like Rosberg. Sure he's known him a long time and works for the same team, but so what? He did give Nico a 'cuddle' in parc ferme by way of congratulations, but they generally always seem a bit frosty towards each other. They are by no means the first team mates to not get along and won't be the last.

As for yesterday's tactics, any driver in the position Lewis found himself in would have done the same thing and backed his main rival into the pack and hope for a result that resulted in a world championship. Kudos to Rosberg who managed the position well and picked up his first F1 Championship. 

Bottom line for me is that world champion he may be, but top flight racing driver Rosberg is not. For me the top four are Hamilton, Verstappen, Vettel and (maybe) Alonso.


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## Norrin Radd (Nov 28, 2016)

moan all you like about Rosberg being the champion ,but it was over 21 races and he led the championship for 17 of the 21 races .so whinger hamilton had a couple of breakdowns ,who cares there was enough races in the season to win the title .


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## andycap (Nov 28, 2016)

GeeJay said:



			I think Lewis missed an opportunity to show himself to be 'the bigger man', but maybe he just doesn't like Rosberg. Sure he's known him a long time and works for the same team, but so what? He did give Nico a 'cuddle' in parc ferme by way of congratulations, but they generally always seem a bit frosty towards each other. They are by no means the first team mates to not get along and won't be the last.

As for yesterday's tactics, any driver in the position Lewis found himself in would have done the same thing and backed his main rival into the pack and hope for a result that resulted in a world championship. Kudos to Rosberg who managed the position well and picked up his first F1 Championship. 

Bottom line for me is that world champion he may be, but top flight racing driver Rosberg is not. For me the top four are Hamilton, Verstappen, Vettel and (maybe) Alonso.
		
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spot on


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## SaintHacker (Nov 28, 2016)

In fairness to lewis he congratulated Nico in parc ferme, shook hands twice on the podium, and has verbally congratulated him each time he's been interviewed. They don't like each other. It works both ways, Nico pretty much blanked Lewis, to me thats not winning graciously either.


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## GeeJay (Nov 28, 2016)

SaintHacker said:



			In fairness to lewis he congratulated Nico in parc ferme, shook hands twice on the podium, and has verbally congratulated him each time he's been interviewed. They don't like each other. It works both ways, Nico pretty much blanked Lewis, to me thats not winning graciously either.
		
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I agree. 

Also with Lewis doing his best to stuff up Nico's afternoon and season, together with the pit wall essentially telling Lewis to roll over and give the championship to Nico; it's not difficult to imagine that there was a fair bit of tension all round after the race. 

Now we have this nonsense about whether there will be sanctions or not for Lewis disobeying team orders. Had they not already won the constructors title, then the team would have a point I guess. But for me when either driver could win the drivers championship, it's wrong for the team to ask a driver to act against their own best interest. Plus the team got a 1-2 anyway, so what do they really have to complain about?


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## larmen (Nov 28, 2016)

GeeJay said:



			Plus the team got a 1-2 anyway, so what do they really have to complain about?
		
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That one of their drivers was actively trying not to have a 1-2.


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## Hobbit (Nov 28, 2016)

People whinge from the rooftops when there's a procession, and now they're whinging when Hamilton tries to make it competitive. The British doing what they do best, build someone up when he's climbing the slippery pole then knock him when he gets to the top.


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## GeeJay (Nov 28, 2016)

larmen said:



			That one of their drivers was actively trying not to have a 1-2.
		
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Basic conflict of interest. Even Toto admitted he was torn.

More important for the team to get a 1-2 and than for their drivers fight it out for the drivers championship? Time the team grew up. Anyway we saw a more interesting race than it would have been if the Mercs had scampered away from the field.


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## JT77 (Nov 28, 2016)

I heard someone yesterday say " show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser!"
I think Hamilton was within his right to slow it down, it made it more interesting and even though deep down I'm sure he knew nico would win, at least he tried something.  Hamilton is a winner, and quite clearly hates to lose, that's not a bad thing in competitive sport. 
After the race he was gracious enough in defeat, he congratulated nico, maybe through gritted teeth but still did. Hopefully next season will bring some more teams through, would be great to see some more competition on the grid.


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## larmen (Nov 28, 2016)

GeeJay said:



			Anyway we saw a more interesting race than it would have been if the Mercs had scampered away from the field.
		
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I remember a few years ago with Hakkinen and Coulthard. Every race, same time trial. Then the Red Bulls more recently. Then the Mercs again. The cars were so dominant, average drivers could win a season if they were in the right car at the right time against another average driver.

Maybe scrap the drivers championship if it is a 2 horse race anyway. It's never the best driver out of 20 that wins, it's the best out of 2, sometimes 4 tops.


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## Imurg (Nov 29, 2016)

F1, along with cycling to name another, need to decide whether it's primarily a team sport with the individual Championship coming second, or vice versa.
To a relative outsider like me, the Drivers Championship comes first - simples.
But I often hear that it's a team sport first.
So it needs to make up its mind ' it can't be both.
Was it a team sport back in the Fangio years, or when Moss was behind the wheel?
Although Mansell drove for Williams, he was the "Star", the Constructors Championship definitely came second.
Its only in the last few years that the balance seems to have shifted towards the "Team"

So make up your mind F1
If it's a driver's game then let them race.
If it's a team sport have absolute team orders.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 29, 2016)

Norrin Radd said:



			moan all you like about Rosberg being the champion ,but it was over 21 races and he led the championship for 17 of the 21 races .so whinger hamilton had a couple of breakdowns ,who cares there was enough races in the season to win the title .
		
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Dont think anyone is moaning about Rosberg being champion, think there moaning about what Hamilton was told to do, so Rosberg could become champion.Basically he put two fingers up.
You can moan all you like about Hamilton, not you but in general. But, and not a single person has said this. If Hamilton had gone off into the distance and shown his vast superiority once again, ie followed team orders, there would of been uproar. We would now be arguing all day about how F1 is fixed, which to an extent it showed it is on Sunday. Personally I would like to see Hamilton leave and go to another team.


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## MegaSteve (Nov 29, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Personally I would like to see Hamilton leave and go to another team.
		
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Personally I'd like to see Rosberg leave and prove it's him as much him as the car...

Hamilton has nothing to prove, having already lifted the championship driving for a different team...


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## bobmac (Nov 29, 2016)

Next season it's all change again.
Bigger, louder, faster cars.
Who knows who will develop the best car although it will probably be one of the 'big' teams.
It will certainly be fun to watch 4 or 5 cars finishing within a few seconds of each other every race.

Will it happen? let's hope so.

Lastly, can Jenson Button replace Steve Jones please


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## ger147 (Nov 29, 2016)

bobmac said:



			Next season it's all change again.
Bigger, louder, faster cars.
Who knows who will develop the best car although it will probably be one of the 'big' teams.
It will certainly be fun to watch 4 or 5 cars finishing within a few seconds of each other every race.

Will it happen? let's hope so.

Lastly, can Jenson Button replace Steve Jones please
		
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Who is Steve Jones?


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## bobmac (Nov 29, 2016)

ger147 said:



			Who is Steve Jones?
		
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He's the host of CH4 F1 programme


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## SaintHacker (Nov 29, 2016)

bobmac said:



			Next season it's all change again.
Bigger, louder, faster cars.
		
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Fingers crossed.  Booked my Silverstone tickets in September,  already counting down the days!


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## MegaSteve (Nov 29, 2016)

bobmac said:



			Lastly, can Jenson Button replace Steve Jones please
		
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If Jenson is to replace anyone from the reporting teams please let it be Ted...


Believe Jenson is still contracted to McClaren [Honda] for another year... 
Too big an asset for marketing/promoting the team to let away too easily..


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## ger147 (Nov 29, 2016)

bobmac said:



			He's the host of CH4 F1 programme
		
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Apologies, I always forget C4 cover F1 as well.


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## USER1999 (Nov 29, 2016)

F1 has always been about the team. Back in the day, the number one driver could swap cars with his team mates. Fangio and Collins springs to mind. A joint second in Collins car secured Fangio the world champs after his own steering broke.


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## MegaSteve (Nov 29, 2016)

murphthemog said:



			F1 has always been about the team. Back in the day, the number one driver could swap cars with his team mates. Fangio and Collins springs to mind. A joint second in Collins car secured Fangio the world champs after his own steering broke.
		
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Yes they did... Were 'gentlemen' racers in them days... Racing for the crack rather than the dosh...


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## Smiffy (Dec 2, 2016)

ger147 said:



			Who is Steve Jones?
		
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A right prat.


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## Beezerk (Dec 2, 2016)

Nico retiring,  didn't see that coming.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2016)

Seems Rosberg has retired from F1 ?!


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## GeeJay (Dec 2, 2016)

Wow! 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38185846

Big decision and a courageous one. Good for him, clearly what he wants. Good luck to him.


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## User62651 (Dec 2, 2016)

GeeJay said:



			Wow! 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38185846

Big decision and a courageous one. Good for him, clearly what he wants. Good luck to him.
		
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I agree, has re-evaluated what's important in life after becoming champ, probably figures the chances of a repeat are slim so he's peaked and the high risks involved in F1, especially when you have family and kiddies is not worth the risk. Has had a good run at it.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 2, 2016)

So the next question is who is sitting in his old seat next year.


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## Alex1975 (Dec 2, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			So the next question is who is sitting in his old seat next year.
		
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Jenson....


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## Smiffy (Dec 2, 2016)

Alex1975 said:



			Jenson....
		
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Vettel


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## Fyldewhite (Dec 2, 2016)

Don't know the relevant contract situations or buy out clauses etc but would like to see Ricciardo or even Verstappen given the chance in the best car (assuming it will again be the best car next season with the changes). Vettel has seemed to me unhappy with his lot this season......and that would have the added bonus that they could again favour a German in the garage ......and the Princess could continue to fuel the conspiracy enthusiasts


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 2, 2016)

Fyldewhite said:



			Don't know the relevant contract situations or buy out clauses etc but would like to see Ricciardo or even Verstappen given the chance in the best car (assuming it will again be the best car next season with the changes). Vettel has seemed to me unhappy with his lot this season......and that would have the added bonus that they could again favour a German in the garage ......and the Princess could continue to fuel the conspiracy enthusiasts 

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From what I understand Verstappen is well & truly locked in by the Red Bull organisation. As for Vettel, I don't think Mercedes would be very keen. One high maintenance driver is enough, certainly don't need another.

Maybe the young chap (Ocon) at Manor as he is already part of the Merc driver programme and has looked pretty good in an uncompetitive car.


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## Lump (Dec 2, 2016)

Alex1975 said:



			Jenson....
		
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I'm with smiffy. Either vettel or even verstappen. Jenson has a williams seat in a seasons time, so cant see him not keeping his year off.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2016)

Button has also retired has he not ? 

For me it will be either Wehrlien or Ocon both in the Mercedes program and both would leave Hamilton as a number 1

They could look to recruit someone like Sainz or Bottas


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## Craigg (Dec 2, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Button has also retired has he not ?
		
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No. The official line is a year off, with an option to return in a McLaren should Alonso not decide to fulfill his contract.
Would love to see him alongside Lewis.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 2, 2016)

What about Raikonnen. Good driver, not too high maintenance off the track


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## ger147 (Dec 2, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			What about Raikonnen. Good driver, not too high maintenance off the track
		
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All of the top guys already have a contract for next season, Kimi included.

Mercedes will either go for a young guy from one of the smaller teams or a stop gap for a year while they line up a bigger name for 2018.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 2, 2016)

ger147 said:



			All of the top guys already have a contract for next season, Kimi included.

Mercedes will either go for a young guy from one of the smaller teams or a stop gap for a year while they line up a bigger name for 2018.
		
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Has anyone ever tried to buy out another driver. In other sports the contract is rarely binding. In football hardly worth the paper their written on


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## ger147 (Dec 2, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Has anyone ever tried to buy out another driver. In other sports the contract is rarely binding. In football hardly worth the paper their written on
		
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No chance of Ferrari helping out Mercedes in that situation. Money doesn't come into stuff like that in F1 between teams such as those.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 2, 2016)

ger147 said:



			No chance of Ferrari helping out Mercedes in that situation. Money doesn't come into stuff like that in F1 between teams such as those.
		
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Fair enough. Was just putting it out there as I'm not really into F1 and especially all the off road goings on


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## SaintHacker (Dec 2, 2016)

The big guns are all confirmed for nextseason so I think Mercedes will go for Werlein, which will leave Lewis as out and out no.1 driver and keep the parent company happy by having a German driver in the team. Then 2018 they will have the option of going for Alonso/Vettel/Verstappen. Personally I would love to see Max and Lewis in the same team, although I'm not sure Mercedes could afford all the repairs!


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## andycap (Dec 3, 2016)

Give the drive to Suzi Wolff, that would shake it up


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## bobmac (Dec 3, 2016)

She won't fit in the cockpit in a few months


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 3, 2016)

bobmac said:



			She won't fit in the cockpit in a few months
		
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I would help her


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