# Rules on Temporary Greens... anyone?



## vkurup (Jan 3, 2012)

What are the rules on temp greens?  I played at Silvermere yesterday.. They had temp greens circled on most holes, but the flags were on the normal greens!!.  Couple of my approach shots landed on the temp greens.  Was not sure if I could chip from there or only used a putter.  I ended up using the putter - but there was plenty of green fringe grass between temp and regular greens.   Any suggestions


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## Whee (Jan 3, 2012)

I asked this a while back - most replies stated that at their course the temp green would be marked as GUR.

I had a medal round where I hit 7 or 8 of the temp greens, and played a wedge from each one - no point making the game harder by trying to putt from that crap, through the long stuff all the way up to the green?


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## DCB (Jan 3, 2012)

Check the notice board before you go out. The club may have a local rule that states you must take relief as it is classes as GUR when not in use.

It's just plain stupid to take chunks out of the winter green with a wedge when the main green is in use.


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## brendy (Jan 3, 2012)

We take a free drop at our place as they are GUR.


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## vkurup (Jan 3, 2012)

Interesting, but the notice outside talked about GUR and Temp Green seperately.  Never thought of considering Temp as GUR.


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## rosecott (Jan 3, 2012)

If a playerâ€™s ball lies on a _[FONT=arial !important]wrong putting green[/FONT]_, he must not play the ball as it lies. He must take relief, without penalty, as follows: 
The player must lift the ball and drop it within one club-length of and not nearer the _[FONT=arial !important]hole[/FONT]_ than the _[FONT=arial !important]nearest point of relief[/FONT]_. The _[FONT=arial !important]nearest point of relief [/FONT]_must not be in a _[FONT=arial !important]hazard[/FONT]_ or on a _[FONT=arial !important]putting green[/FONT]_. When dropping the ball within one club-length of the _[FONT=arial !important]nearest point of relief[/FONT]_, the ball must first strike a part of the _[FONT=arial !important]course[/FONT]_ at a spot that avoids interference by the _[FONT=arial !important]wrong putting green[/FONT]_ and is not in a _[FONT=arial !important]hazard[/FONT]_ and not on a _[FONT=arial !important]putting green[/FONT]_. The ball may be cleaned when lifted under this Rule. 

Definition:


[FONT=arial !important]Wrong Putting Green

Aâ€œ_[FONT=arial !important]wrong putting green[/FONT]_â€is any _[FONT=arial !important]putting green[/FONT]_ other than that of the hole being played. Unless otherwise prescribed by the _[FONT=arial !important]Committee[/FONT]_,this term includes a practice _[FONT=arial !important]putting green[/FONT]_ or pitching green on the _[FONT=arial !important]course[/FONT]_.
[/FONT]


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## thecraw (Jan 3, 2012)

They should be GUR, as DCB says it should be in the notice board if not marked on the greens.


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## vkurup (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks rosecott.... 

... The defence rests..


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## bobmac (Jan 3, 2012)

vkurup said:



			Thanks rosecott.... 

... The defence rests.. 


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So, not GUR then?


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## Billysboots (Jan 3, 2012)

They should be GUR, but even if not marked I would like to think that common sense would prevail!


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## DCB (Jan 3, 2012)

rosecott said:




Definition:


[FONT=arial !important]Wrong Putting Green

Aâ€œ_[FONT=arial !important]wrong putting green[/FONT]_â€is any _[FONT=arial !important]putting green[/FONT]_ other than that of the hole being played. Unless otherwise prescribed by the _[FONT=arial !important]Committee[/FONT]_,this term includes a practice _[FONT=arial !important]putting green[/FONT]_ or pitching green on the _[FONT=arial !important]course[/FONT]_.
[/FONT]

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Critical words in there are '*other than'*. A temporary or winter green is not a wrong green if you are playing to the main green on the same hole. That's why they should be designated as GUR in order to protect them.


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## chrisd (Jan 3, 2012)

DCB said:



			Critical words in there are '*other than'*. A temporary or winter green is not a wrong green if you are playing to the main green on the same hole. That's why they should be designated as GUR in order to protect them.
		
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Are you sure you havn't misinterpeted this.

  A wrong green is any green other than that of the hole being played - so, for me, a winter green on a hole and  the winter green isn't in use, by definition, isn't the green of the hole being played - the one that is being played is the one with the flag in it. So it is a free drop and that is how our club members play it. Vice versa if the winter green is in use the main green is a wrong green.

Chris


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## doublebogey7 (Jan 3, 2012)

At our club, once the winter greens gave been marked out a notice is issued designating them as temp greens and advising that they should be treated as wrong greens.


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## DCB (Jan 3, 2012)

I see what you're saying Chrisd but have always seen them as GUR. Need to check up on wording of our local rule.


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## vkurup (Jan 3, 2012)

Great discussion here.. looks like
1) Local rules apply
2) Treat as GUR and therefore non-penalty drop 
3) Avoid using a wedge


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## SGC001 (Jan 3, 2012)

My old course looked into this ages ago and contacted some of the relevant bodies for help. It's quite a complicated issue as I guess they are more concerned with the integrity of qualifying comps themselves. 

Unfortunately, it isn't a wrong putting green as that would solve the issue for most clubs. It would seem sensible for courses to treat the area as the type of GUR where you must drop off it as opposed to having the option. The difficulty with that, as I understood it, was that you are not allowed permanent areas of GUR.


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## bobmac (Jan 3, 2012)

How hard can it be ?
1st tee.
Big sign
Temp greens
Play prohibited.
Free drop


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## chrisd (Jan 3, 2012)

bobmac said:



			How hard can it be ?
1st tee.
Big sign
Temp greens
Play prohibited.
Free drop


Let Captain through
Don't expect to be let through yourself
What wet suit would you buy
Jeans possibly allowed
Gps devices as good as cheating
		
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Slightly amended Bob!



Chris


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## vkurup (Jan 3, 2012)

bobmac said:



			How hard can it be ?
1st tee.
Big sign
Temp greens
Play prohibited.
Free drop
		
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If clubs made golf easy to understand, the Mrs will explain the offside rule


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## rosecott (Jan 3, 2012)

SGC001 said:



			My old course looked into this ages ago and contacted some of the relevant bodies for help.
		
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I don't know which relevant bodies your old course contacted but this question was very recently discussed at great length on a forum used by rules officials from all over the world. The concensus was that a temporary green was a "wrong putting green" and that this had been confirmed by the R&A.


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## John Evans 9 (Feb 23, 2022)

My course removes all doubt. The temporary greens are signed “mandatory free drop” , unless the flag is in. Mind you, it seems to be common practice for this to be ignored when using a putter to play to the main green !


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## TigerBear (Feb 23, 2022)

It's winter, temp greens will be the fairways so you should be using your course protection mats anyway!


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## jim8flog (Feb 23, 2022)

TigerBear said:



			It's winter, temp greens will be the fairways so you should be using your course protection mats anyway! 

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 Very old thread to comment on however the correct answer was given in earlier posts. A temp green not in play is a wrong green and so is a main green not in play.

Putting a matt down on the temp green would still incur a penalty.

One other point since this thread was started is that interference now includes stance.


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## patricks148 (Feb 23, 2022)

10 year old thread!


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## J55TTC (Feb 23, 2022)

Temporary greens are GUR at our place, just take the nearest point of relief


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## rulefan (Feb 23, 2022)

J55TTC said:



			Temporary greens are GUR at our place, just take the nearest point of relief
		
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I would hope they are also NPZ as GUR is optional.


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## John Evans 9 (Feb 23, 2022)

patricks148 said:



			10 year old thread!
		
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Yes,it might be my fault . I had not spotted the date but the thread was fairly high up the list so I assumed it was current.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 23, 2022)

If we are using temps and they are circled then we have a local rule saying GUR. Its hard enough putting on these without people then whacking chunks out with approach shots to the green


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## jim8flog (Feb 23, 2022)

J55TTC said:



			Temporary greens are GUR at our place, just take the nearest point of relief
		
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HomerJSimpson said:



			If we are using temps and they are circled then we have a local rule saying GUR. Its hard enough putting on these without people then whacking chunks out with approach shots to the green
		
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AS per Rulefan just declaring them as GUR leaves it a optional whether or not to drop away unless the LR makes it clear it is mandatory. However there is no need for a LR simply because it is covered by the Rules of Golf. We put a lot of effort in to our notices years ago to highlight to players the rules so we do not need to have a LR.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 23, 2022)

patricks148 said:



			10 year old thread!
		
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Tread 😂 bad man. Although I thought the same re thread.


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## J55TTC (Feb 23, 2022)

jim8flog said:



			AS per Rulefan just declaring them as GUR leaves it a optional whether or not to drop away unless the LR makes it clear it is mandatory. However there is no need for a LR simply because it is covered by the Rules of Golf. We put a lot of effort in to our notices years ago to highlight to players the rules so we do not need to have a LR.
		
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Everyone at ours has enough common sense not to play from the temp greens. All I can say is the temp greens have no divots in them…


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## patricks148 (Feb 23, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Tread 😂 bad man. Although I thought the same re thread.
		
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Fat fingers now corrected. The shame of being pulled up by Tashy on spelling is a new low, even for me


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## Tashyboy (Feb 23, 2022)

patricks148 said:



			Fat fingers now corrected. The shame of being pulled up by Tashy on spelling is a new low, even for me
		
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😂😂😂😂😂 joking aside how do you actually find a ten yr old thread.😳


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## rulefan (Feb 23, 2022)

John Evans 9 said:



			My course removes all doubt. The temporary greens are signed “mandatory free drop” , unless the flag is in. Mind you, it seems to be common practice for this to be ignored when using a putter to play to the main green !
		
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Blame this guy


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## rosecott (Feb 23, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			😂😂😂😂😂 joking aside how do you actually find a ten yr old thread.😳
		
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I was very impressed with my second post on this thread from 10 years ago. I couldn't read my first one.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 23, 2022)

rosecott said:



			I was very impressed with my second post on this thread from 10 years ago. I couldn't read my first one.
		
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I did see that Jim and thought I had wrote it 😁👍


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## Swango1980 (Feb 24, 2022)

Interesting about the status of greens / temp greens when they are in play or not. At my old course / new course, at times over the summer temporary greens are barely visible and players will play off the temp greens (which will look much the same as fairways). Over winter, temp greens were not even marked, you just knew what they were as grass was cut shorter and the flag was in them. Some temp greens were also on the large fringe of the main green. So, that fringe, was in fact the temporary green. Are we saying that when the flag is on the main green, relief MUST be taken if the ball is anywhere on the fringe because that is the temporary green (wrong green)? I'd assume not, but then does a temporary green only become a wrong green if it is separate to the fringe, and somewhere else on the general area?

Also, when on temporary greens, especially those on the fringe, a players ball may just roll on to the edge of the main green. They may only have a 6 or 7 foot putt to the hole on the temporary green. However, are we saying they must take relief, even though sometimes that relief, not nearer the hole, could put them significantly further away, potentially having to pitch over the main green? I can honestly say that, in 17 years of playing regular golf I have never seen a player take that relief, and taken the putt.


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## rulefan (Feb 24, 2022)

The definition says the putting green is the area on the hole you are playing that is specially prepared for putting, or the Committee has defined as the putting green (such as when a temporary green is used). 
Any (other) green on the course other than the putting green for the hole you are playing is a wrong green. Wrong greens are part of the general area.

So, providing the committee has clearly defined its temporary greens, any 'main' green is a wrong green and relief* must* be taken as specified.

I know of many players who will say it is ok to use a putter from the 'main' green when the surface is adjacent to the correct (ie temporary) green (as described above). Both they and the players Swango has encountered over 17 years are in breach of the rule.

I am interested in the positioning of temporary green that relief requires chipping over the main green.


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## Orikoru (Feb 24, 2022)

Wow, a ten year topic bump. Nice work. Was it a spambot that has been deleted or was John Evans 9 the culprit?


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## Whereditgo (Feb 24, 2022)

rulefan said:



			The definition says the putting green is the area on the hole you are playing that is specially prepared for putting, or the Committee has defined as the putting green (such as when a temporary green is used).
Any (other) green on the course other than the putting green for the hole you are playing is a wrong green. Wrong greens are part of the general area.

So, providing the committee has clearly defined its temporary greens, any 'main' green is a wrong green and relief* must* be taken as specified.

I know of many players who will say it is ok to use a putter from the 'main' green when the surface is adjacent to the correct (ie temporary) green (as described above). Both they and the players Swango has encountered over 17 years are in breach of the rule.

I am interested in the positioning of temporary green that relief requires chipping over the main green.
		
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Pretty much all of our temporary greens are situated just to the front of the main green, the 3rd in particular is highly likely to result in having to chip over part of the main green if taking relief from a ball that went over the temporary green. There is a narrow 'entrance' to the main green between bunkers so the NPR could mean having to chip over a bunker as well as a section of the main green.

I have taken relief several times after hitting my approach into one of the temporary greens too long and ending up on the main green and then being subjected to the ridicule of my PP's.

Am I right in thinking that a local rule can be put in place to state that the main green is part of the temporary green to negate the requirement to take relief?


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## rulefan (Feb 24, 2022)

Whereditgo said:



			Pretty much all of our temporary greens are situated just to the front of the main green, the 3rd in particular is highly likely to result in having to chip over part of the main green if taking relief from a ball that went over the temporary green. There is a narrow 'entrance' to the main green between bunkers so the NPR could mean having to chip over a bunker as well as a section of the main green.

I have taken relief several times after hitting my approach into one of the temporary greens too long and ending up on the main green and then being subjected to the ridicule of my PP's.

Am I right in thinking that a local rule can be put in place to state that the main green is part of the temporary green to negate the requirement to take relief?
		
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1) Are you saying that the npr is not on the approach to the temp green. If the ball is so far behind the temp it must have been a pretty poor shot and perhaps you deserve what you get 
But I suggest your committee rethink such locations.

2) The committee is responsible for defining the margin of the temporary green. I see no reason why the committee can't include the main green within that margin. What they can't do is require that only a putter may be used. And repair the resultant divot holes


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## Whereditgo (Feb 24, 2022)

rulefan said:



			1) Are you saying that the npr is not on the approach to the temp green. If the ball is so far behind the temp it must have been a pretty poor shot and perhaps you deserve what you get 
But I suggest your committee rethink such locations.

2) The committee is responsible for defining the margin of the temporary green. I see no reason why the committee can't include the main green within that margin. What they can't do is require that only a putter may be used. And repair the resultant divot holes 

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Oy!....I'm not that bad 

The temporary green is tiny, so very easy to go through it especially when there is a frost 

So you are suggesting that there would have to be a local rule in place to include the main green as being within the margin of the temporary green? Otherwise being on the main green is a wrong green and compulsory relief?


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## jim8flog (Feb 24, 2022)

Whereditgo said:



			So you are suggesting that there would have to be a local rule in place to include the main green as being within the margin of the temporary green? Otherwise being on the main green is a wrong green and compulsory relief?
		
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Yes and Yes


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## rulefan (Feb 24, 2022)

Whereditgo said:



			So you are suggesting that there would have to be a local rule in place to include the main green as being within the margin of the temporary green? Otherwise being on the main green is a wrong green and compulsory relief?
		
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Not quite. My original thought was that the committee must simply define the margin of any relevant temporary green to include the surface on the main green.
However, I am now having second thoughts. The definition of a Wrong Green is very specific.
_Any green on the course other than the putting green for the hole the player is playing. Wrong greens include: The normal putting green for a hole where a temporary green is being used._
The committee has no authority to change a Rule of Golf but it's not clear if they can change a Definition.
I'll find out.


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## rulefan (Feb 25, 2022)

rulefan said:



			The committee must simply define the margin of any relevant temporary green to include the surface on the main green.
		
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I can confirm that is correct. 
But it does seem to defeat the objective.


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