# Paul Casey, is he too negative?



## Beezerk (Jun 17, 2017)

I've been trying to keep up with the golf while on holiday in the USA, the channels here have picked up on it and it's something I've thought for a while.
He quite often leads or is in contention in a tournament and talks himself down acterwards, it's in a way in which he almost expects to lose. Even the missus commented on it last night while she was thoroughly enjoying the coverage &#128513;.


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## TomTom (Jun 17, 2017)

Oh please..... F O!


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## Beezerk (Jun 18, 2017)

TomTom said:



			Oh please..... F O!
		
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Nice one, ching ching.


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## Tiger man (Jun 18, 2017)

TomTom said:



			Oh please..... F O!
		
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Oh wow, someone on the sauce last night. .


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## pauljames87 (Jun 18, 2017)

Never been a fan of Casey personally.. Dunno why but then my mate did stewarding for the volvo Match play few years ago and Casey was a complete dick to a 75yo fan so just confirmed to me my gut was right about him


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## Stuart_C (Jun 18, 2017)

I think he's a great player but he lacks the mental strength to compete for 4days. He often has 3 very good rounds and 1 poor round which costs him winning.


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## Beezerk (Jun 18, 2017)

Tiger man said:



			Oh wow, someone on the sauce last night. .
		
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Did you read my post at all mate? I'm 8 hours behind in the USA you donkey.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 18, 2017)

Beezerk said:



			Did you read my post at all mate? I'm 8 hours behind in the USA you donkey.
		
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Think that comment was aimed at Tom Tom mate. Not you.


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## Beezerk (Jun 18, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Think that comment was aimed at Tom Tom mate. Not you.
		
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Oops ha ha, got up for a slash at 3am and saw it &#128514;


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## ScienceBoy (Jun 18, 2017)

I have always wanted to like Casey, I really have. I think all pros have their moments where they make an error with a fan or journalist, it must be very hard when the cameras and mics are on you almost 24/7.

Putting any mistakes aside for now his golf is more than good enough, always seems to pop up on the leaderboard with a low coupl of rounds, leading me to think this might be his year, then he throws in a 75 and it's all gone. Four rounds is one too many at times.

Soon he will be overtaken by the younger talent, in his prime for now though.


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## Tiger man (Jun 18, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Think that comment was aimed at Tom Tom mate. Not you.
		
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Id like to confirm it was indeed, should have quoted it! EeeeOoooor:lol:
edit; I did quote him:rofl:


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## sawtooth (Jun 18, 2017)

pauljames87 said:



			Never been a fan of Casey personally.. Dunno why but then my mate did stewarding for the volvo Match play few years ago and Casey was a complete dick to a 75yo fan so just confirmed to me my gut was right about him
		
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You're right he's a ****.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 18, 2017)

A player I can't warm too and it seems he does struggle when in contention, especially after two rounds to then keep it going. I think he's got a few years at his prime to get a big win but time is ticking


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 18, 2017)

Anyone I know who has met him says he is a complete "insert your word here"

I didn't like the way he acted in regards the European Tour and Ryder Cup 

Cried when he didn't get a pick in 2010 , he then lost his PGA tour card - came running back to the European Tour , complained like mad about the qualifying for the Ryder Cup , won a ET event - got an invite to PGA event , they changed the qualifying for the Ryder Cup making it easier for him - he then dumped his ET card. I hope when he loses his card again that he is made to qualify for a ET card


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## C&R (Jun 19, 2017)

Don't like him


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## Owen_Thomas_14 (Jun 19, 2017)

He's come across as a right arrogant d!ckhead to me


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## sawtooth (Sep 22, 2017)

I don't particularly like him either but he's up there again in the Tour championship. 

He's having a pretty good year isn't he? Seems always to be there or thereabouts.

Might be a good outside bet for a major next year if he continues in this vein.


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## ForeRighty (Sep 22, 2017)

Seems to lack that mental edge to push for the win on a Sunday. Should have won a big PGA event in past 2 years with positions his been in and ability.


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## PCWOX (Sep 22, 2017)

He was interviewed by the SkyCart yesterday.  Interestingly, he is top of the tour averages for low score on a Thursday of an event.  However, he is outside the top 70 for score on a Sunday.


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## Yant (Sep 22, 2017)

An arrogant, unfriendly, self obsessed person.  Nothing to like other than how he plays golf.


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## chrisd (Sep 22, 2017)

Yant said:



			An arrogant, unfriendly, self obsessed person.  Nothing to like other than how he plays golf.
		
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Absolutely agree, total knob!


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## Marshy77 (Sep 22, 2017)

Never met him but followed him for a few holes at Birkdale when he played the final day with Beef. He didn't have much to play for but was interacting with the crowd, he seemed to love the attention Beef was getting and they seemed to have a good laugh inbetween holes. Seemed down to earth and looked to be enjoying his golf.


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## Dasit (Sep 22, 2017)

Funny, articulate guy.

Always has time for Sky and gives a great interview.


One of my favourite guys on tour.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 22, 2017)

Seems to be the British version of Matt Kuchar. Often seems to be in the top 10 but never actually looks like winning. I imagine he has coined in a big sum this year as he has been very consistent. If I was a betting man I would put money on him and Kuchar every week for top 10 finishes. I think I would do okay over the year.

He does seem to get some very negative press on this forum.


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## BTatHome (Sep 22, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			He often has 3 very good rounds and 1 poor round which costs him winning.
		
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that pretty much sums up 99% of the players on tour!


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## One Planer (Sep 22, 2017)

Beezerk said:



			I've been trying to keep up with the golf while on holiday in the USA, the channels here have picked up on it and it's something I've thought for a while.
*He quite often leads or is in contention in a tournament and talks himself down acterwards, *it's in a way in which he almost expects to lose. Even the missus commented on it last night while she was thoroughly enjoying the coverage &#62977;.
		
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Isn't that what all good sports people do? Take the pressure off themselves?

FWIW I actually like Casey. I think he's an extremely talented golfer who hasn't achieved anywhere near what he should have.

Bit like a few others.


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## Dellboy (Sep 22, 2017)

Think he's a dam nice chap, had the pleasure of chatting to him a few years ago, he also went over to chat with lots of young children waiting to see him, had his photo taken with most of them, all while others walked straight past and didn't stop .


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## Foxholer (Sep 22, 2017)

Yant said:



			An arrogant, unfriendly, self obsessed person.  Nothing to like other than how he plays golf.
		
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Perfectly put! And, from folk who knew him at the time, has always been that way!


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## Marshy77 (Sep 22, 2017)

Foxholer said:



			Perfectly put! And, from folk who knew him at the time, has always been that way!
		
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Is this recently or from a few years ago when he was a bit out of control?


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## corrupthalo (Sep 22, 2017)

Would have him in the Ryder Cup team in a heartbeat


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 22, 2017)

In my experience he's articulate polite and was happy to give time to others. 

But that would seem to not fit with the narrative of some on here. 

FWIW I had a similar experience a couple of times with Nick Faldo but again that wouldn't fit with the haters.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 22, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			In my experience he's articulate polite and was happy to give time to others. 

But that would seem to not fit with the narrative of some on here. 

FWIW I had a similar experience a couple of times with Nick Faldo but again that wouldn't fit with the haters.
		
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We tend to make snap decisions on well known people based on a brief encounter. I think Robert Rock is great because at one tournament he smiled at me and asked how my day was going. Every other golfer had blanked the spectators all day but he showed a human side. He could be horrible, don't think so from what I have heard, but from my 5 second encounter I follow his results. Irrational. Equally a negative encounter or perceived slight has the opposite effect.

Casey often seems to get a bad press but it is good to hear some positives on here as well.


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## Yant (Sep 22, 2017)

corrupthalo said:



			Would have him in the Ryder Cup team in a heartbeat
		
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And there is the case in point.  His choices meant that he wasn't (and isn't) eligible to play.


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## Rlburnside (Sep 22, 2017)

I like Casey but he does seem to slip away when in contention to many times, would not surprise me if he won a major at some point.

Dont get some of the harsh words that some on hear post that have never met the guy.


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## Dogma (Sep 22, 2017)

Mr Thursday


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## Hobbit (Sep 22, 2017)

Yant said:



			An arrogant, unfriendly, self obsessed person.  Nothing to like other than how he plays golf.
		
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chrisd said:



			Absolutely agree, total knob!
		
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Followed him and Darren Clark in a pro-am several years ago. Overheard a comment he made to Clark re amateurs... he's off my Christmas list, not that he's bothered about plebs.


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## Tommo21 (Sep 22, 2017)

I love this, Casey's in the last 30 in the Fed Ex cup playing with the best in the world. I would love to be Mr Thursday, an arrogant knob playing at that level.   Move along.


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## Duckster (Sep 22, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We tend to make snap decisions on well known people based on a brief encounter. I think Robert Rock is great because at one tournament he smiled at me and asked how my day was going. Every other golfer had blanked the spectators all day but he showed a human side. He could be horrible, don't think so from what I have heard, but from my 5 second encounter I follow his results. Irrational. Equally a negative encounter or perceived slight has the opposite effect.

Casey often seems to get a bad press but it is good to hear some positives on here as well.
		
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Met him a few times and he has always come across as a pretty decent bloke.  Granted, they've only been fleeting encounters.

As for the snap decisions bit, did see Patrick Reed on practise day at The Open this year.  What a change in perception I have of him.  From what I'd heard and read I had the impression he was a brash and abrasive typical yank. In reality he was nice, down to earth and was brilliant with my baby daughter.  Signed a few things for us, stopped and chatted for about a minute (doesn't sound long but seemed like much longer as it was in between holes). Then when he passed us on the next hole he stopped in the fairway, saw who it was and waved at us shouting my daughters name.  Simple touch that made her laugh and made me a new Patrick Reed fan.



Yant said:



			And there is the case in point.  His choices meant that he wasn't (and isn't) eligible to play.
		
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Think that there's still a bit of resentment that he wasn't picked for 2010 even though he was 9th in the word at the time. I can kind of see it his way though, for some the Ryder Cup is not the be all and end all of golf and there are other things he may want to focus on instead.


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## shortgame (Sep 22, 2017)

Is he too negative?
Possibly, not sure

He is smug though
Defintely smug


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## One Planer (Sep 22, 2017)

Tommo21 said:



			I love this, Casey's in the last 30 in the Fed Ex cup playing with the best in the world. I would love to be Mr Thursday, an arrogant knob playing at that level.   Move along.
		
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:clap:


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## Yant (Sep 22, 2017)

Duckster said:



			Met him a few times and he has always come across as a pretty decent bloke.  Granted, they've only been fleeting encounters.

As for the snap decisions bit, did see Patrick Reed on practise day at The Open this year.  What a change in perception I have of him.  From what I'd heard and read I had the impression he was a brash and abrasive typical yank. In reality he was nice, down to earth and was brilliant with my baby daughter.  Signed a few things for us, stopped and chatted for about a minute (doesn't sound long but seemed like much longer as it was in between holes). Then when he passed us on the next hole he stopped in the fairway, saw who it was and waved at us shouting my daughters name.  Simple touch that made her laugh and made me a new Patrick Reed fan.




Think that there's still a bit of resentment that he wasn't picked for 2010 even though he was 9th in the word at the time. I can kind of see it his way though, for some the Ryder Cup is not the be all and end all of golf and there are other things he may want to focus on instead.
		
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I've heard exactly the same thing about Patrick Reed.  Couldn't be nicer, by all accounts.


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## chrisd (Sep 22, 2017)

I saw him on a practice round at Wentworth a few years back being totally obnoxious to the Marshalls. I'm surprised they let home get away with it cos I'd have told him in no uncertain terms what I thought of him had he spoken to me like he did them


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## chrisd (Sep 22, 2017)

Yant said:



			I've heard exactly the same thing about Patrick Reed.  Couldn't be nicer, by all accounts.
		
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I bumped into Patrick Reed at the London Club, just him and me and I have to say he was very polite indeed. (I had found his ball)


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## Foxholer (Sep 22, 2017)

Marshy77 said:



			Is this recently or from a few years ago when he was a bit out of control?
		
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The word 'always' might give a hint!! But it was as/from a Junior that they were commenting about.


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## Marshy77 (Sep 22, 2017)

Foxholer said:



			The word 'always' might give a hint!! But it was as/from a Junior that they were commenting about.
		
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It was more the 'knew him at the time' that I was referring to.


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## shivas irons (Sep 22, 2017)

Bit harsh some of the comments on here about Casey,the guy can really play BUT does struggle when the pressure's on,he needs to overcome this and he would easily be world top 10,just wonder if the daft comments he said about American's years ago still plays on his mind,apparently these comments he regrettably made had quite an effect on him and at the time he sought professional help.


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## sawtooth (Sep 23, 2017)

Now a joint share of the lead.

Is this his time? or will he have a 74 today or tomorrow?


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## shivas irons (Sep 23, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Now a joint share of the lead.

Is this his time? or will he have a 74 today or tomorrow?
		
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Would love to see Casey win but sadly as a tourney comes to a conclusion and he's in with a chance he always seems to throw it,hopefully he can turn this around.


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## bluewolf (Sep 23, 2017)

Quite like him now. Anyone that can provoke responses such as on this thread is clearly someone quite interesting. His Missus is a stunner too. Come' on Casey!!


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## Redtraveller (Sep 23, 2017)

Sorry to disagree with the majority but we met Casey at the Open practise day this year and he was sound. Stopped chatted and took the time for pictures etc. He seemed a nice guy


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## shivas irons (Sep 23, 2017)

Casey now two ahead at the Tour Championship .


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## JT77 (Sep 23, 2017)

Casey wonâ€™t win this, he wonâ€™t even be leading after today. 
I like watching him, good player, plays some good stuff but just doesnâ€™t have the stones in my opinion to break from his comfort zone.


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## Tommo21 (Sep 23, 2017)

Is this forum too negative. Its a fair bet Casey won't win, simply because he has the worlds best on his heels and there's 29 of them. 

Give us a break, jeez.


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## Tommo21 (Sep 23, 2017)

JT77 said:



			he wonâ€™t even be leading after today.
		
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WRONG


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## JT77 (Sep 23, 2017)

Happily so, Iâ€™d like to see him go on to win, as I said I like watching him he just doesnâ€™t seem to be able to close it out. 
Give me a break, jeez ðŸ˜¬


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## Tommo21 (Sep 23, 2017)

JT77 said:



			Happily so, Iâ€™d like to see him go on to win, as I said I like watching him he just doesnâ€™t seem to be able to close it out. 
Give me a break, jeez ðŸ˜¬
		
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Fair play......tough call with these guys behind him, but he's in a good place.


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## JT77 (Sep 24, 2017)

Certainly wonâ€™t be easy for him but if he could close it out it would hopefully give him the boost to go on and win more, he certainly has the golf game itâ€™s just maybe the mental toughness but a win could help him sort that.


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## shivas irons (Sep 24, 2017)

Casey's got a really good chance to win this with the two guys behind him players you wouldnt really call golfing superstars,BUT he does really struggle to close out a tournament even with a lead,it will be an interesting watch this evening.


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## Foxholer (Sep 24, 2017)

JT77 said:



			Happily so, Iâ€™d like to see him go on to win, as I said I like watching him he just doesnâ€™t seem to be able to close it out. 
...
		
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Seems to reflect my attitude to his golf!


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## garyinderry (Sep 24, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Followed him and Darren Clark in a pro-am several years ago. Overheard a comment he made to Clark re amateurs... he's off my Christmas list, not that he's bothered about plebs.
		
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What did say?   he was probably right too. :rofl:


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## Beezerk (Sep 24, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Isn't that what all good sports people do? Take the pressure off themselves?
		
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He talks himself down in a negative manner though, top sports people talk down their chances as it's kind of the done thing now, with Casey you can just see he doesn't actually believe he will win it.


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## Foxholer (Sep 24, 2017)

He looks nervous! And not in a good way!

Unlike the solidly aggressive approach he had yesterday!

Needs a birdie or 2 to settle him - and quite soon! The back 9 has not been particularly kind to him!


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 24, 2017)

I'd be nervous with $10m at stake. Can't blame the bloke for that, he is allowed to be nervous.


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## Val (Sep 24, 2017)

Great golfer and loved oks to be finding form again, however, he is apparently one of the most disliked pros on tour as he is so far up his own jacksie


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## Golfmmad (Sep 24, 2017)

Paul Casey, my favourite player - just enjoy watching him play and strike a ball!

He always walks round with a smile and looks like he actually enjoys being there, which is more than you can say about a lot of players out there.

Was watching him last night when he went down from 12 to 10 under and he just took it in his stride and didn't let it get to him. That's not the actions of a player that can't handle the pressure, as some have suggested on here.

In lots of, no, every tournament, where players are in contention and then during the 3rd or 4th round just fall away, it's natural and just happens all the time.

I don't agree with him being arrogant towards others and always think back to when he played a practice round at East Sussex National and my mates son walked round with him and Patrick Levet. "He was great fun and a really nice guy", were the words my mates son used.

So get off his back and give him a break and enjoy the fact that he is British!

:thup:


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## El Diablo (Sep 24, 2017)

A few holes remain to prove he is not a bottler - according to SKY yesterday he is top 10 scoring wise in rounds 1-3 on the PGA tour this year and circa 70th for round 4 scoring.

Been in contention or close a few times and currently following the same path.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 24, 2017)

Good old proper choke from Casey - blowing a three shot lead and going to be dropping more. Quite happy to see him not winning - heard enough from people about what he is like.


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## HankMarvin (Sep 24, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Good old proper choke from Casey - blowing a three shot lead and going to be dropping more. Quite happy to see him not winning - heard enough from people about what he is like.
		
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I am sure he doesn't give a hoot what you think.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 24, 2017)

HankMarvin said:



			I am sure he doesn't give a hoot what you think.
		
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Iâ€™m sure thatâ€™s valid for every single persons opinion of him on here which ever way it is - or indeed any persons opinion on any golfer but then thatâ€™s never stopped anyone else posting their opinion about a golfers has it


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## Golfmmad (Sep 24, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Good old proper choke from Casey - blowing a three shot lead and going to be dropping more. Quite happy to see him not winning - heard enough from people about what he is like.
		
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What a terrible post! I hate posts like this - part of the reason why I dont often post these days.

What has he done to you? Have you met him, spoken to him?

For a fellow golfer to wish that on another is just not sportsmanlike.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 24, 2017)

Golfmmad said:



			What a terrible post! I hate posts like this - part of the reason why I dont often post these days.

What has he done to you? Have you met him, spoken to him?

For a fellow golfer to wish that on another is just not sportsmanlike.
		
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Welcome to sports - some people have favourite golfers that they want to see win , some people have golfers that they arenâ€™t fans of and they donâ€™t want them to win.

Iâ€™m not a fan of Casey - I donâ€™t like the way he threw his teddies out over the 2010 RC , then came crawling back to the ET when he lost his PGA card - won on the ET got an invite and got PGA card back - complained like mad about he RC Qualifying so they changed it to help him and then he threw in his ET membership- happy to see him over there and not involved in the RC and Iâ€™m happy that he wonâ€™t win the Fed Ex 

And have spoken to plenty who have met him including people who work on the ET and have all said the same thing about him and non of it complementary. If you like him again thatâ€™s your choice just as itâ€™s mine not to like him and prefer someone else wins


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 24, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Welcome to sports - some people have favourite golfers that they want to see win , some people have golfers that they arenâ€™t fans of and they donâ€™t want them to win.

Iâ€™m not a fan of Casey - I donâ€™t like the way he threw his teddies out over the 2010 RC , then came crawling back to the ET when he lost his PGA card - won on the ET got an invite and got PGA card back - complained like mad about he RC Qualifying so they changed it to help him and then he threw in his ET membership- happy to see him over there and not involved in the RC and Iâ€™m happy that he wonâ€™t win the Fed Ex 

And have spoken to plenty who have met him including people who work on the ET and have all said the same thing about him and non of it complementary. If you like him again thatâ€™s your choice just as itâ€™s mine not to like him and prefer someone else wins
		
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And I am happy that he doesn't waste his time playing on a Mickey Mouse tour in Europe. 

As for the Ryder Cup, that loses credibility with each Captain's Picks.


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## sawtooth (Sep 25, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Now a joint share of the lead.

Is this his time? or will he have a 74 today or tomorrow?
		
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I guess its the latter (73).


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## Reemul (Sep 25, 2017)

Well only 3 players scored worse than him in the final round. he certainly has some last round issues he needs to get help dealing with if he wants to win some major tournaments, of course he might just be happy winning millions every year.


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## ArnoldArmChewer (Sep 25, 2017)

Reemul said:



			Well only 3 players scored worse than him in the final round. he certainly has some last round issues he needs to get help dealing with if he wants to win some major tournaments, of course he might just be happy winning millions every year.
		
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Nail well and truly hit on head.  :thup:


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## ParParTripleBogey (Sep 25, 2017)

I don't think it helps that commentators and interviewers have been pointing out his round 4 stats all week. He was probably already under a lot of pressure, sign-posting that he might be a bottler doesn't exactly make it any easier. I'll never be in their position but I'd feel under more pressure thinking peers and competitors were thinking me a bottler on day 4 than winning another couple of million.

For some reason, I've never quite taken to Casey but in the last few weeks, I've warmed a bit to him. Always very happy and relaxed in interviews and speaks well so I felt bad he crumbled a bit yesterday.


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## Tommo21 (Sep 25, 2017)

What a great life he has made for himself over in the US. He might not have got over the line but he's flying the flag week in week out. There can only be one winner and to compete with the worlds best is good enough for me. Considering the competition that's come to fore in the last two or three years I think he's doing very well. Behind casey......Koepka, Finau, Speith, Rahm, Garcia, Kuchar, Rose, Simpson, Reed, Burger, Matsuyama...what happened to him. Fowler...what happened to him. Leishman the man on form finished near the bottom. Add to that the top players who didn't even make the last 30. 

Yip, in my book Casey is doing just fine.


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## User62651 (Sep 25, 2017)

Remember him winning in Texas many years back, holding off home favourite JB Holmes for the win. Injuries set him back a bit. Excellent player for a long number of years. He's just had a baby daughter and he's 40 now so I don't think he'll be that disappointed at playing (or scorng) badly yesterday. Not obsessed with golf, enoys snowboarding and other things away from the course which may carry some risks which for me is healthy.
I quite like him and think the whole European Team selection for Ryder Cup trying to force players to play on the ET instead of where they want in the US is very flawed and should be scrapped. ET is a feeder tour now, punched above it's weight for a while through the 90s. Without the 3 or 4 UAE/Qatar big money events it would considerably lessened more. A lot of very poorly attended diddy tournaments, just the way it is.
Saw talk over the weekend of the PGA and ET tours getting merged, think that would be good.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 25, 2017)

Tommo21 said:



			What a great life he has made for himself over in the US. He might not have got over the line but he's flying the flag week in week out. There can only be one winner and to compete with the worlds best is good enough for me. Considering the competition that's come to fore in the last two or three years I think he's doing very well. Behind casey......Koepka, Finau, Speith, Rahm, Garcia, Kuchar, Rose, Simpson, Reed, Burger, Matsuyama...what happened to him. Fowler...what happened to him. Leishman the man on form finished near the bottom. Add to that the top players who didn't even make the last 30. 

Yip, in my book Casey is doing just fine.
		
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A lot of those players you named in fact prob all of them have managed to win on Tour in the past 2 years - Casey hasnâ€™t won over there since 2009 - 8 years now , yep earning plenty money with place finishes. Yep he competes but doesnâ€™t win.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 25, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Remember him winning in Texas many years back, holding off home favourite JB Holmes for the win. Injuries set him back a bit. Excellent player for a long number of years. He's just had a baby daughter and he's 40 now so I don't think he'll be that disappointed at playing (or scorng) badly yesterday. Not obsessed with golf, enoys snowboarding and other things away from the course which may carry some risks which for me is healthy.
I quite like him and think the whole European Team selection for Ryder Cup trying to force players to play on the ET instead of where they want in the US is very flawed and should be scrapped. ET is a feeder tour now, punched above it's weight for a while through the 90s. Without the 3 or 4 UAE/Qatar big money events it would considerably lessened more. A lot of very poorly attended diddy tournaments, just the way it is.
Saw talk over the weekend of the PGA and ET tours getting merged, think that would be good.
		
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Merging the tours would be the worst thing for the ET. All the players would just play in the US events where the sponsorship is higher to allow bigger prize money. 

Why should the RC change - if players want to represent Europe and the ET who administer the European RC then they should support the ET , itâ€™s not exactly a hardship for them and the European Team has been more than fine with the way it does Selection - right now the one player missing out is Casey and Europe have been fine without him. Changing everything would be the start of the downfall and we in this country would see the top European players once - The Open , they arenâ€™t going to come over for any other event


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## One Planer (Sep 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Merging the tours would be the worst thing for the ET. All the players would just play in the US events where the sponsorship is higher to allow bigger prize money. 

Why should the RC change - if players want to represent Europe and the ET who administer the European RC then they should support the ET , itâ€™s not exactly a hardship for them and the European Team has been more than fine with the way it does Selection - right now the one player missing out is Casey and Europe have been fine without him. Changing everything would be the start of the downfall and we in this country would see the top European players once - The Open , they arenâ€™t going to come over for any other event
		
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In the case of points accumulation counting towards RC qualification I agree, but I would like the captains pick not to be limited to ET only.

Captains pick could be from any tour as long as the players are eligible to represent Europe IMO.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 25, 2017)

One Planer said:



			In the case of points accumulation counting towards RC qualification I agree, but I would like the captains pick not to be limited to ET only.

Captains pick could be from any tour as long as the players are eligible to represent Europe IMO.
		
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Donâ€™t see why they shoold change it - players like Casey complained bitterly that the qualification criteria was weighted heavily in favour of people playing in Europe and imo it shoold be - but they tweaked it a little so they had to play less and still that wasnâ€™t enough for him so he quit. If he really wants to play RC for Europe then he should show a little desire to do that just like all the other players - anyone that doesnâ€™t for me Europe are better off without. They always play better as a team irrelevant of World Ranking - history shows that since 1985


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## User62651 (Sep 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Donâ€™t see why they shoold change it - players like Casey complained bitterly that the qualification criteria was weighted heavily in favour of people playing in Europe and imo it shoold be - but they tweaked it a little so they had to play less and still that wasnâ€™t enough for him so he quit. If he really wants to play RC for Europe then he should show a little desire to do that just like all the other players - anyone that doesnâ€™t for me Europe are better off without. *They always play better as a team irrelevant of World Ranking - history shows that since 1985*

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Doesn't show that, Europe could have played even better in Cups they won and maybe not lost the cups they've lost with selection of the very best ranked or best form players available at the time, we just don't know. 
Putting a hurdle in the way of picking the strongest team is not wise wrt the event itself but perhaps for the European tour's health powers that be think that's worth it, either way that is a handicap that may work against us as the US team is stronger than ever in terms of young quality players coming through and perhaps Europe doesn't have so many top players at present as it has had over last 20 years.
If Casey is based in US with a young family there and can earn more money playing there with less travelling and time zone changes, then I think he's fine staying there. Apply that thinking to any of our jobs and we'd do the same....imho


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 25, 2017)

But what is the point of the Ryder Cup these days when half of the European team are PGA Tour players who played the bare minimum of European events?

The other half would probably prefer to ultimately do the same. 

As far as the original ideals of the Ryder Cup are concerned it would seem that they have long disappeared.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 25, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Doesn't show that, Europe could have played even better in Cups they won and maybe not lost the cups they've lost with selection of the very best ranked or best form players available at the time, we just don't know. 
Putting a hurdle in the way of picking the strongest team is not wise wrt the event itself but perhaps for the European tour's health powers that be think that's worth it, either way that is a handicap that may work against us as the US team is stronger than ever in terms of young quality players coming through and perhaps Europe doesn't have so many top players at present as it has had over last 20 years.
If Casey is based in US with a young family there and can earn more money playing there with less travelling and time zone changes, then I think he's fine staying there. Apply that thinking to any of our jobs and we'd do the same....imho

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Since 1999 in pretty much every Ryder Cup the USA are always reportedly to have the stronger team - especially in regards the WR - as each RC happened they always pointed towards the lack of major winners in the European team and players way down the rankings - like McGinley himself but each time the players came together as a team bar two RC - the Faldo one where his picks played well but poor captaincy allowed the US to win it back and last year where for Prob the first time Clarkeâ€™s Picks didnâ€™t work out and it cost them. Same happened after 08 - all the talk was about Europe lacking depth and young guns coming through and the USA going on to become stronger - Europe then won three in a row again. The USA havenâ€™t won in Europe since ? 95 ? Europe will tweak the qualifying a little bit but ultimately there should always been the criteria that the player must be a member of the ET - and I can certainly see Europe winning the RC back with a good amount of strong European players in the team. 

Casey made his choice - when he lost his PGA card he had no choice to come back to ET , they gave him the platform to resurrect his career again then he dumped them. Knox wants to play in the RC so joins the ET - all the other players that are based in the US in the same situation but want to play RC are members of the ET - I would see someone like Poulter than Casey in the team - because for one of them playing in the RC means everything


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 25, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			But what is the point of the Ryder Cup these days when half of the European team are PGA Tour players who played the bare minimum of European events?

The other half would probably prefer to ultimately do the same. 

As far as the original ideals of the Ryder Cup are concerned it would seem that they have long disappeared.
		
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The Ryder Cup is now prob one of the biggest sporting events - prob behind the World Cup and Olympics - itâ€™s audience level prob exceeds what you see for any of the Majors - I believe the Sunday at Medinah still is Skyâ€™s highest golf viewing figures. It allows player who are normally only focused on themselves to play and thrive in a team environment. 

All sports over the years evolve and change - there isnâ€™t many left that play to the original ideas - doesnâ€™t mean itâ€™s a bad thing.


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## Tommo21 (Sep 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A lot of those players you named in fact prob all of them have managed to win on Tour in the past 2 years - Casey hasnâ€™t won over there since 2009 - 8 years now , yep earning plenty money with place finishes. Yep he competes but doesnâ€™t win.
		
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It is disappointing playing with the best in the world, making millions and not winning.


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## One Planer (Sep 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Donâ€™t see why they shoold change it - players like Casey complained bitterly that the qualification criteria was weighted heavily in favour of people playing in Europe and imo it shoold be - but they tweaked it a little so they had to play less and still that wasnâ€™t enough for him so he quit. If he really wants to play RC for Europe then he should show a little desire to do that just like all the other players - anyone that doesnâ€™t for me Europe are better off without. They always play better as a team irrelevant of World Ranking - history shows that since 1985
		
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Do you agree that the captain should have the option of picking the best European players, in form, at the time of the picks?

If, so, how does picking from a limited pool give this when there may be better players on other tours?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 25, 2017)

It might mean everything to Poulter but it still fails to prove anything. 

Poulter himself is a PGA Tour player who plays in perhaps 5 or 6 ET events  (excluding Majors and WGC) whereas he will most likely play thrwe times as many  regular tournaments in America. 

For a spell in the 90's it appeared that the ET could complete with the PGA but the worldwide financial crisis put paid to that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 25, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Do you agree that the captain should have the option of picking the best European players, in form, at the time of the picks?

If, so, how does picking from a limited pool give this when there may be better players on other tours?
		
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I believe the Captain should be able to pick any player who is eligible to play for Europe in the Ryder Cup - which is exactly what he has right now - the pool isnâ€™t really limited when itâ€™s only missing a handful of players - I count one at the moment - Casey. 

Clarke had the choice and picked who he thought were the best choice - same with all the other captains before them - some picks work out some donâ€™t but reckon more often than not they have worked out.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The Ryder Cup is now prob one of the biggest sporting events - prob behind the World Cup and Olympics - itâ€™s audience level prob exceeds what you see for any of the Majors - I believe the Sunday at Medinah still is Skyâ€™s highest golf viewing figures. It allows player who are normally only focused on themselves to play and thrive in a team environment. 

All sports over the years evolve and change - there isnâ€™t many left that play to the original ideas - doesnâ€™t mean itâ€™s a bad thing.
		
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Actually I believe that worldwide the viewing figures don't put it in the top 10.


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## guest100718 (Sep 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The Ryder Cup is now prob one of the biggest sporting events - prob behind the World Cup and Olympics - itâ€™s audience level prob exceeds what you see for any of the Majors - I believe the Sunday at Medinah still is Skyâ€™s highest golf viewing figures. It allows player who are normally only focused on themselves to play and thrive in a team environment. 

All sports over the years evolve and change - there isnâ€™t many left that play to the original ideas - doesnâ€™t mean itâ€™s a bad thing.
		
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you're over selling the RC.  it's probably not even in the top 10 of most watched


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## One Planer (Sep 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



*I believe the Captain should be able to pick any player who is eligible to play for Europe in the Ryder Cup - which is exactly what he has right now *- the pool isnâ€™t really limited when itâ€™s only missing a handful of players - I count one at the moment - Casey. 

Clarke had the choice and picked who he thought were the best choice - same with all the other captains before them - some picks work out some donâ€™t but reckon more often than not they have worked out.
		
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But he doesn't have that now! They have to be members of the ET!  

Casey was on fire before the Ryder Cup yet was ineligible because he is not a member of the ET.

Are you seriously going to tell me that Lee Westwood was in better form in the same period and was more deserving of a captains pick?

While I agree that, on the whole, the qualification process is sound and doesn't need to be vastly overhauled, I believe the Captains picks should not face the same constraint of tour membership.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 25, 2017)

One Planer said:



			But he doesn't have that now! They have to be members of the ET!  

Casey was on fire before the Ryder Cup yet was ineligible because he is not a member of the ET.

Are you seriously going to tell me that Lee Westwood was in better form in the same period and was more deserving of a captains pick?

While I agree that, on the whole, the qualification process is sound and doesn't need to be vastly overhauled, I believe the Captains picks should not face the same constraint of tour membership.
		
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Actually he does have that -  Casey is not eligible to play for Europe in the RC and thatâ€™s only down to one person - Paul Casey - his own choice , Paul Casey made himself unavailable. 

RC captains pick more than just who is on form - they also look at how those people will interact within the team , what sort of partnerships can they form , experience - etc etc etc - some of Clarkeâ€™s didnâ€™t work out - that happens. When Monty picked Harrington over Casey it worked - swings and roundabouts. Would Casey have made a difference or would he have cracked under the pressure ? Westwood may have been the wrong picked but Casey wasnâ€™t the right one - Knox prob was or Lowry or Kjldeson - players from ET higher up than Westwood. 

By allowing the captain to bypass eligibility for the RC makes the whole thing a mockery - why should he anyway just for one person - Casey. If Casey was a member of the ET who would have prob qualified and would do this time but again itâ€™s his choice to walk away.


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## One Planer (Sep 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Actually he does have that -  Casey is not eligible to play for Europe in the RC and thatâ€™s only down to one person - Paul Casey - his own choice , Paul Casey made himself unavailable. *

RC captains pick more than just who is on form - they also look at how those people will interact within the team , what sort of partnerships can they form , experience - etc etc etc - some of Clarkeâ€™s didnâ€™t work out - that happens. When Monty picked Harrington over Casey it worked - swings and roundabouts. Would Casey have made a difference or would he have cracked under the pressure ? Westwood may have been the wrong picked but Casey wasnâ€™t the right one - Knox prob was or Lowry or Kjldeson - players from ET higher up than Westwood. 

*By allowing the captain to bypass eligibility for the RC makes the whole thing a mockery - why should he anyway just for one person - Casey. If Casey was a member of the ET who would have prob qualified and would do this time but again itâ€™s his choice to walk away*.
		
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So are you saying if Casey was asked, he would turn it down? Wouldn't want to be considered? I don't think so!

He has only made himself unavailable under current selection criteria.

He's always made it clear he loved playing the Ryder Cup but the travel was the issue for him to play in Europe, which is why he relinquished his ET membership.

Regarding the second piece in bold. As I've already stated. The qualifying process would/should remain the same with points being earned via the ET. I'm only suggesting the captains picks be who he wants regardless of tour.

With the draw of the bigger prize funds over on the PGA, what would happen if more and more left the ET for the PGA? More and more European players are basing themselves in the states for the better facilities/weather/money/tournaments (Delete as appropriate). 

What happens if/when they decide to give up the ET card to save on travel the same way Casey did?

It's one person now, but who's to say it will remain that way?


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## chrisd (Sep 25, 2017)

One Planer said:



			So are you saying if Casey was asked, he would turn it down? Wouldn't want to be considered? I don't think so!

He has only made himself unavailable under current selection criteria.

He's always made it clear he loved playing the Ryder Cup but the travel was the issue for him to play in Europe, which is why he relinquished his ET membership.

Regarding the second piece in bold. As I've already stated. The qualifying process would/should remain the same with points being earned via the ET. I'm only suggesting the captains picks be who he wants regardless of tour.

With the draw of the bigger prize funds over on the PGA, what would happen if more and more left the ET for the PGA? More and more European players are basing themselves in the states for the better facilities/weather/money/tournaments (Delete as appropriate). 

What happens if/when they decide to give up the ET card to save on travel the same way Casey did?

It's one person now, but who's to say it will remain that way?
		
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I just wonder, having seen Casey in complete knobhead form,  whether the Captain didnt like him and the reason was perfect not to select him?


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 25, 2017)

Way too much being made of this RC eligibility and taking away from the original point. Did Casey choke last night? Compared to the filed yes but I didn't think he played in a negative or defensive manner.

As for the RC it's simple. You either stick to the current criteria where you have to be an ET member and meet the minimum entry criteria or a decision is made allow captain's the chance to pick anyone they want irrespective of ET eligibility. With the majority of picks still coming from order of merit/rankings I think it gives the captain a bigger choice and can then pick the best side. I firmly believe and especially momentum has a lot to do with these picks rather than how they'll interact. It's all behind closed doors so how anyone can know what goes on in a team room is a mystery and you have to wonder to a degree how much so called divisions (in both camps) over the years have been blown up by the press and media.

I wouldn't expand that to do away with ET criteria as I think commercially with everyone free then to travel to the US (subject to tour card qualification) and chase the mighty $, the best will rarely be seen in Europe, the emerging will want to try their luck in the US and the ET tour becomes bereft. Sponsors leave, tournaments go and within a decade the ET will be as sparse and poor at the ladies ET


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## One Planer (Sep 25, 2017)

chrisd said:



			I just wonder, having seen Casey in complete knobhead form,  whether the Captain didnt like him and the reason was perfect not to select him?
		
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(...Subject to Casey being eligible) But would pick an out of form player out of spite?

I would suggest he shouldn't be the captain if he were to put his personal feelings ahead of the objective.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 25, 2017)

One Planer said:



			So are you saying if Casey was asked, he would turn it down? Wouldn't want to be considered? I don't think so!

He has only made himself unavailable under current selection criteria.

He's always made it clear he loved playing the Ryder Cup but the travel was the issue for him to play in Europe, which is why he relinquished his ET membership.

Regarding the second piece in bold. As I've already stated. The qualifying process would/should remain the same with points being earned via the ET. I'm only suggesting the captains picks be who he wants regardless of tour.

With the draw of the bigger prize funds over on the PGA, what would happen if more and more left the ET for the PGA? More and more European players are basing themselves in the states for the better facilities/weather/money/tournaments (Delete as appropriate). 

What happens if/when they decide to give up the ET card to save on travel the same way Casey did?

It's one person now, but who's to say it will remain that way?
		
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If more and more go over and relinquish their membership then the ET suffers and so does the RC - but how many have followed Casey lead ? None - if fact people like Knox and Rahm have gone the other way and joined the ET and played over in Europe during the season - and the reason is because they want to play in the Ryder Cup. Are more and more really basing themselves over there ? A few have gone over and most have struggled but anyone that has gone over none have relinquished their ET membership 

If Casey wants to play in the RC then the choice is there for him - he had no problems with the travel around the ET when he lost his tour card. He asked for them to chance the selection - so they did , that still wasnâ€™t enough for him so he quit. If he isnâ€™t willing to meet the criteria then he clearly doesnâ€™t want to play in the RC enough - Donald , McDowell , Rose , Poulter , McIlroy, Stenson all based over there in the exact same situation as Casey and all have ET membership to ensure they can play in the RC , they are willing to play those small amount of comps to ensure they can play. 

Here is John Rahm on joining the ET - as he says â€œbecause I want to play RCâ€

http://www.europeantour.com/videoaudio/video/videoid=322162.html

Look at rule changes if itâ€™s affecting multiple players - not when itâ€™s one person.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Actually he does have that -  Casey is not eligible to play for Europe in the RC and thatâ€™s only down to one person - Paul Casey - his own choice , Paul Casey made himself unavailable. 

RC captains pick more than just who is on form - they also look at how those people will interact within the team , what sort of partnerships can they form , experience - etc etc etc - some of Clarkeâ€™s didnâ€™t work out - that happens. When Monty picked Harrington over Casey it worked - swings and roundabouts. Would Casey have made a difference or would he have cracked under the pressure ? Westwood may have been the wrong picked but Casey wasnâ€™t the right one - Knox prob was or Lowry or Kjldeson - players from ET higher up than Westwood. 

By allowing the captain to bypass eligibility for the RC makes the whole thing a mockery - why should he anyway just for one person - Casey. If Casey was a member of the ET who would have prob qualified and would do this time but again itâ€™s his choice to walk away.
		
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chrisd said:



			I just wonder, having seen Casey in complete knobhead form,  whether the Captain didnt like him and the reason was perfect not to select him?
		
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If that was one of the criteria for selection then Montgomerie  (among others) would never have made a team.


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## One Planer (Sep 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If more and more go over and relinquish their membership then the ET suffers and so does the RC - but how many have followed Casey lead ? None - if fact people like Knox and Rahm have gone the other way and joined the ET and played over in Europe during the season - and the reason is because they want to play in the Ryder Cup. Are more and more really basing themselves over there ? A few have gone over and most have struggled but anyone that has gone over none have relinquished their ET membership
		
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The key word you're missing, again, is "Yet".

Just because no one has followed his lead yet doesn't mean it won't happen. 

You only have to look at marquee players like Mcilroy. Is he still playing  the same number of tournaments in Europe as he was when he started out?

Its Rahm playing more in America or Europe? Or is he only playing the token events to play Ryder Cup?



Liverpoolphil said:



			If Casey wants to play in the RC then the choice is there for him - he had no problems with the travel around the ET when he lost his tour card. He asked for them to chance the selection - so they did , that still wasnâ€™t enough for him so he quit. If he isnâ€™t willing to meet the criteria then he clearly doesnâ€™t want to play in the RC enough - Donald , McDowell , Rose , Poulter , McIlroy, Stenson all based over there in the exact same situation as Casey and all have ET membership to ensure they can play in the RC , they are willing to play those small amount of comps to ensure they can play.
		
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I'm talking hypothetically Phil.  If the criteria were to change.  



Liverpoolphil said:



			Here is John Rahm on joining the ET - as he says â€œbecause I want to play RCâ€

http://www.europeantour.com/videoaudio/video/videoid=322162.html

Look at rule changes if itâ€™s affecting multiple players - not when itâ€™s one person.
		
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So Rahm openly admits to only joining the ET only to play RC.

And your happy for him to use the tour as a means to an end only playing marquee events to suit his needs. 

Fantastic!

What about Storm? What about Larrazabal? What about Wiesberger? 

Players who play week in, week out supporting the tour earning Ryder Cup points. You'd be happy for them to miss out on a potential pick to a bit part player only playing token events to be considered for RC?

Wow.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 25, 2017)

One Planer said:



			The key word you're missing, again, is "Yet".

Just because no one has followed his lead yet doesn't mean it won't happen.
		
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But no one has followed his lead - no one not one single person. He isnt a trailblazer and people arent dumping their ET membership , not even any murmurs or inkling so its just not going to happen.




			You only have to look at marquee players like Mcilroy. Is he still playing  the same number of tournaments in Europe as he was when he started out?

Its Rahm playing more in America or Europe? Or is he only playing the token events to play Ryder Cup?
		
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They are both playing the required amount to fullfil what is required to be a ET member - McIlory even hosting an event.




			I'm talking hypothetically Phil.  If the criteria were to change.  



So Rahm openly admits to only joining the ET only to play RC.

And your happy for him to use the tour as a means to an end only playing marquee events to suit his needs. 

Fantastic!

What about Storm? What about Larrazabal? What about Wiesberger? 

Players who play week in, week out supporting the tour earning Ryder Cup points. You'd be happy for them to miss out on a potential pick to a bit part player only playing token events to be considered for RC?

Wow.
		
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Umm Rahm will qualify via the World Points list so someone wont miss out who plays week in week out on the ET because of Rahm 

And you seem happy to what to change the rules for"one person" to be able to play who isnt a member of the ET - now someone who does play week in week out could miss out 

Thankfully the ET havent made any changes to suit one person and it wont affect the RC once little bit.


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## One Planer (Sep 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But no one has followed his lead - no one not one single person. He isnt a trailblazer and people arent dumping their ET membership , not even any murmurs or inkling so its just not going to happen.



They are both playing the required amount to fullfil what is required to be a ET member - McIlory even hosting an event.



Umm Rahm will qualify via the World Points list so someone wont miss out who plays week in week out on the ET because of Rahm 

And you seem happy to what to change the rules for"one person" to be able to play who isnt a member of the ET - now someone who does play week in week out could miss out 

Thankfully the ET havent made any changes to suit one person and it wont affect the RC once little bit.
		
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Fantastic. 

Maybe Westwood will get another pick this year.  Kaymer had done loads this year, he's a shoe in. Is Monty still eligible?

Here's a great idea.  Let's keep picking people who fit a team dynamic as opposed to people in form, regardless of tour.

Great plan :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 25, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Fantastic. 

Maybe Westwood will get another pick this year.  Kaymer had done loads this year, he's a shoe in. Is Monty still eligible?

Here's a great idea.  Let's keep picking people who fit a team dynamic as opposed to people in form, regardless of tour.

Great plan :thup:
		
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Captains have picked players who have been on either tour and at times its been down to form and other times it hasnt 

Considering Europe have won 8 times out of the last 11 unbeaten at home since 1993 with varying captains picks including players like Westwood , Monty , Kaymer , Harrington etc and players who fit in with others and form partnerships and have won it would suggest that the system works pretty well - unless people want to react based on one RC where they won on home soil . 

Changing the rules to suit one player ! Great plan - that one player really wants to play - then he knows what he needs to do.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 25, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Fantastic. 

Maybe Westwood will get another pick this year.  Kaymer had done loads this year, he's a shoe in. Is Monty still eligible?

Here's a great idea.  Let's keep picking people who fit a team dynamic as opposed to people in form, regardless of tour.

Great plan :thup:
		
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Spot on. We have to be put the best side out we can and sometimes, changing the fit to meet the needs is a bold and necessary move. I want the best players out there, and in form, not someone that is there as a result of meeting some criteria and playing the right number of ET events.


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## ger147 (Sep 25, 2017)

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/golf...ation-rules-best-side-United-States-Hazeltine


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## One Planer (Sep 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Captains have picked players who have been on either tour and at times its been down to form and other times it hasnt 

Considering Europe have won 8 times out of the last 11 unbeaten at home since 1993 with varying captains picks including players like Westwood , Monty , Kaymer , Harrington etc and players who fit in with others and form partnerships and have won it would suggest that the system works pretty well - unless people want to react based on one RC where they won on home soil . 

Changing the rules to suit one player ! Great plan - that one player really wants to play - then he knows what he needs to do.
		
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One payer at the minute Phil. Let's revisit this topic in a few years as see if its changed :thup:

Tell me Westwood or Kaymer were inspired picks last year?

Tell me either one of those was in better form than Casey at the same time?

Now, selection criteria aside.  Would you have picked Westwood or Kaymer ahead of Casey at that time?


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## One Planer (Sep 25, 2017)

ger147 said:



http://www.express.co.uk/sport/golf...ation-rules-best-side-United-States-Hazeltine

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Now there's a thing.


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## fundy (Sep 25, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Now there's a thing.
		
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lol, still an unwinnable argument


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 25, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Now there's a thing.
		
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Interesting piece that tends to back up what a lot of us on here think. No doubt there will be a google article coming to counter this claim


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 25, 2017)

One Planer said:



			One payer at the minute Phil. Let's revisit this topic in a few years as see if its changed :thup:

Tell me Westwood or Kaymer were inspired picks last year?

Tell me either one of those was in better form than Casey at the same time?

Now, selection criteria aside.  *Would you have picked Westwood or Kaymer ahead of Casey at that time?*

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Yes 

I wouldnt have possibly picked them ahead of Lowry or Knox or Kjeldson but ahead of Casey - yes 

But Both Westwood and Kaymer had proven RC pedigree over the previous three RC - both had formed partnerships with other players over the previous RCs and experience was needed in a team that already had 4 rookies in it and both werent miles away from qualifying by right anyway . At the time i thought they were the right and sensible picks. They didnt work out and along with a number of others had a poor RC. But its all been done to death in regards Clarkes choices - in the previous three RC when Casey didnt get picked especially 2010 there was no issues at all with nice European wins. 

The overriding point will still be the same - If Casey is that desperate to play in the RC then he knows what he has to do - the ET tour were there for him when he was down at the bottom. Casey has made his choice as have all the other players.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 25, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Now there's a thing.
		
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Mcilory has said a lot of stuff 

He also stated it was just an exhibition match at one stage

He also praised the ET for reducing the amount of events needed to qualify 

He is one player - obviously the ET and indeed the captain dont agree hence the rules havent changed. 

But here is another article from Casey himself about rejoining the tour

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/go...lots-European-Tour-return-Ryder-Cup-spot.html


If you remove the criteria for players to not be members of the ET to be able to get a Captains Pick then the ET will lose players. You cant have one rule of qualification and then another for the Captains Pick - the exact reason you pointed out to me about Rahm - someone who plays week in week out on ET and supports it misses out to someone or maybe 4 people who arent even a part of the ET - is that fair ?

Another good article from when he quit

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/nov/25/paul-casey-ryder-cup-golf-pga-european-tour


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## One Planer (Sep 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes 

I wouldnt have possibly picked them ahead of Lowry or Knox or Kjeldson but ahead of Casey - yes 

But Both Westwood and Kaymer had proven RC pedigree over the previous three RC - both had formed partnerships with other players over the previous RCs and experience was needed in a team that already had 4 rookies in it and both werent miles away from qualifying by right anyway . At the time i thought they were the right and sensible picks. They didnt work out and along with a number of others had a poor RC. But its all been done to death in regards Clarkes choices - in the previous three RC when Casey didnt get picked especially 2010 there was no issues at all with nice European wins. 

The overriding point will still be the same - If Casey is that desperate to play in the RC then he knows what he has to do - the ET tour were there for him when he was down at the bottom. Casey has made his choice as have all the other players.
		
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I see your careful selection of bold font.  Even at the time you would pick 2 players with no form and on former glory as opposed to one who was contending in most tournaments he played in who also has Ryder Cup experience. 

You clearly believe that the current selection and qualifying criteria are correct, as is your right. 

By default, you must then also agree that this may result in, potentially, not playing our strongest team?

Do you then agree that the current selection criteria had the potential to hinder the captain and his selections?


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## One Planer (Sep 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Mcilory has said a lot of stuff 

He also stated it was just an exhibition match at one stage

He also praised the ET for reducing the amount of events needed to qualify 

He is one player - obviously the ET and indeed the captain dont agree hence the rules havent changed. 

But here is another article from Casey himself about rejoining the tour

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/go...lots-European-Tour-return-Ryder-Cup-spot.html


If you remove the criteria for players to not be members of the ET to be able to get a Captains Pick then the ET will lose players. You cant have one rule of qualification and then another for the Captains Pick - the exact reason you pointed out to me about Rahm - someone who plays week in week out on ET and supports it misses out to someone or maybe 4 people who arent even a part of the ET - is that fair ?
		
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Explain to me what you think the criteria is for gaining a captain's pick?

Obviously these are players who haven't qualified outright. What earns a pick?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 25, 2017)

One Planer said:



			I see your careful selection of bold font.  Even at the time you would pick 2 players with no form and on former glory as opposed to one who was contending in most tournaments he played in who also has Ryder Cup experience. 

You clearly believe that the current selection and qualifying criteria are correct, as is your right. 

By default, you must then also agree that this may result in, potentially, not playing our strongest team?

Do you then agree that the current selection criteria had the potential to hinder the captain and his selections?
		
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I believe the current selection criteria has worked very well over the past couple of decades as can be seen by the multiple amount of times Europe have won even though at times they may not have had their strongest 12 players there - because Europe 9 times out of ten managed to gel together as a team and become collectively stronger regardless of the players that have been selected. Its what has made Europe such a force in the RC over the past 30 years.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 25, 2017)

One Planer said:



			I see your careful selection of bold font.  Even at the time you would pick 2 players with no form and on former glory as opposed to one who was contending in most tournaments he played in who also has Ryder Cup experience. 

You clearly believe that the current selection and qualifying criteria are correct, as is your right. 

By default, you must then also agree that this may result in, potentially, not playing our strongest team?

Do you then agree that the current selection criteria had the potential to hinder the captain and his selections?
		
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We'll pick the best side based on the qualifying criteria, and if we get beat, there will be calls to change the process. I wonder if those thinking it's fine as it is will be joining in the clamour, or will they stick to their guns. I personally feel the current situation isn't the best we could have but the constant argument that it's only one player, it doesn't need changing seems a short sighted one. It may suffice for the next RC but if Europe were to lose on home soil, and then again in the US that would be three defeats in a row (and how unlikely is that scenario. Definitely not beyond the realms of possibility) and would the the ET really stick to their guns and pick those playing the requisite events and not the best side available


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## One Planer (Sep 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I believe the current selection criteria has worked very well over the past couple of decades as can be seen by the multiple amount of times Europe have won even though at times they may not have had their strongest 12 players there - because Europe 9 times out of ten managed to gel together as a team and become collectively stronger regardless of the players that have been selected. Its what has made Europe such a force in the RC over the past 30 years.
		
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I agree with most of that Re the team spirit. 

The problem is that things change and evolve.  You me the current criteria can be restrictive. 

Let's suppose for a moment Rahm didn't join the ET. Should be be worthy of a pick? Or should we just continue to pick, potentially lesser quality, players purely because of the selection criteria?

My opinion is you pick the strongest team possible regardless of tour.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 25, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Explain to me what you think the criteria is for gaining a captain's pick?

Obviously these are players who haven't qualified outright. What earns a pick?
		
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Surely that would depend on a multitude of factors  (ps enjoying a respectful debate :thup: )

Who the Captain is , Who has already qualified , the level of expirence , potential partnerships , where they are playing , what sort of course is it , which players does it suit and how they have played that year and currently. 

I suspect when it comes to France Bjorn will have 10 players in mind he would want there and we prob could pick a number now and he would have some idea of picks ( he has four this time ) - and when the time comes i suspect most of us would have a fair idea of a the picks when we look at the team


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## One Planer (Sep 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Surely that would depend on a multitude of factors  (ps enjoying a respectful debate :thup: )

Who the Captain is , Who has already qualified , the level of expirence , potential partnerships , where they are playing , what sort of course is it , which players does it suit and how they have played that year and currently. 

I suspect when it comes to France Bjorn will have 10 players in mind he would want there and we prob could pick a number now and he would have some idea of picks ( he has four this time ) - and when the time comes i suspect most of us would have a fair idea of a the picks when we look at the team
		
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 I'm always up for debate pal.  Is what makes the forum great especially when it's respectful :thup:

For me, I dont see why the caotians picks shoukd follow the same qualification criteria as the point s system.

If you qualify out right through points then what difference does it make is the captain is given more of a free reign on HIS picks? 

Its almost like saying you can pick who you want but you can't have him, him or him.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 25, 2017)

One Planer said:



			I'm always up for debate pal.  Is what makes the forum great especially when it's respectful :thup:

For me, I dont see why the caotians picks shoukd follow the same qualification criteria as the point s system.

If you qualify out right through points then what difference does it make is the captain is given more of a free reign on HIS picks? 

Its almost like saying you can pick who you want but you can't have him, him or him.
		
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I donâ€™t think it was an issue until last year and I think if reports are true it wonâ€™t be an issue again as Casey will join again 

The problem is the ET look after the European Ryder Cup team - when it all got changed they took it on and right then it was deemed to be eligible to play for the Europeans team you had to be a member of the European Tour. Never been an issue as most players played on both - obviously they have tweaked the format over the years to helped players on both tours but the constant is you have to be a member of the tour to play - so if you allow them to pick from outside the tour then that rule is gone - donâ€™t need to be a member of the tour - that means the potential is the ET would go further downhill because the players would just go and you could potentially only have 4 players who play on the ET. 

Itâ€™s the one rule they have stuck to and itâ€™s mainly to protect their own product and as yet it hasnâ€™t harmed the RC. None of the captains so far have made any suggestions that they want to pick non ET members - even when you had someone like Carl Peterson who was playing very well and Freddi Jacobsen etc


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## One Planer (Sep 25, 2017)

I think that stance will only weaken European options over time. 

Let's be honest, the PGA tour is where the money is.  Players will always move with the money.  You only have to look at the prize funds between the tours. 

For Rahm to openly state hell join the ET purely for Ryder Cup contention only echoes my point.  

Playing a token number of events is not likely to gain enough points to qualify automatically so is heavily reliant on a captains pick. 

The only difference between Rahm and Caseys situation is one openly admits to using a tour as a means to an end, the other focusing on good golf but without the possibility of a pick.

Doesn't sit right with me.


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## Imurg (Sep 25, 2017)

One Planer said:



			I think that stance will only weaken European options over time. 

Let's be honest, the PGA tour is where the money is.  Players will always move with the money.  You only have to look at the prize funds between the tours. 

For Rahm to openly state hell join the ET purely for Ryder Cup contention only echoes my point.  

Playing a token number of events is not likely to gain enough points to qualify automatically so is heavily reliant on a captains pick. 

The only difference between Rahm and Caseys situation is one openly admits to using a tour as a means to an end, the other focusing on good golf but without the possibility of a pick.

Doesn't sit right with me.
		
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Rahm won't need a pick. He'll most likely pick up enough points from the Majors and WGCs...he's only playing the ET events to get his qualification.
The bulk of the European Team live and play the bulk of their golf in America. They play enough events on the ET to qualify for the RC.
Not exactly helping the ET......
Is it Europe Vs USA or the ET Vs USA..?
Surely the best team should be picked? Having such a long qualification process can lead to someone qualifying by Jan/Feb and then losing all form in the next 6 months.
I think the European Team should be just that - a team of Europeans....and the best ones too, regardless of where they ply their trade


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 25, 2017)

Imurg said:



			Rahm won't need a pick. He'll most likely pick up enough points from the Majors and WGCs...he's only playing the ET events to get his qualification.
The bulk of the European Team live and play the bulk of their golf in America. They play enough events on the ET to qualify for the RC.
Not exactly helping the ET......
Is it Europe Vs USA or the ET Vs USA..?
Surely the best team should be picked? Having such a long qualification process can lead to someone qualifying by Jan/Feb and then losing all form in the next 6 months.
I think the European Team should be just that - a team of Europeans....and the best ones too, regardless of where they ply their trade
		
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Good point about qualifying too early and I think Willett was a prime example losing all three games he was involved in and clearly not the man playing anywhere near his Masters form (and hasn't since in truth). I firmly feel we need players playing well and if these are players doing so on the PGA tour then it shouldn't matter. In fact for the next game in the US you could argue that form in those conditions would be a distinct advantage irrespective of whether they have played sufficient ET matching tournaments.

You can understand why the ET want to protect their tour and their RC investment and the entry criteria isn't perhaps as punitive as it could  be (or indeed probably was historically) but golf is becoming a global game and the top players will cherry pick their events to suit their schedules.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 25, 2017)

Imurg said:



			Rahm won't need a pick. He'll most likely pick up enough points from the Majors and WGCs...he's only playing the ET events to get his qualification.
The bulk of the European Team live and play the bulk of their golf in America. They play enough events on the ET to qualify for the RC.
Not exactly helping the ET......
Is it Europe Vs USA or the ET Vs USA..?
Surely the best team should be picked? Having such a long qualification process can lead to someone qualifying by Jan/Feb and then losing all form in the next 6 months.
I think the European Team should be just that - a team of Europeans....and the best ones too, regardless of where they ply their trade
		
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The qualification points has changed to the point I believe any points scored after the PGA are worth 1.5 so players playing well later in the year will be getting more points that playing well earlier in the season. Also any events that are being played at the same time as a Rolex event will score no points 

Itâ€™s Europe looked after by the ET - they are the ones the fork out all the time and money - take away the need for a player to be a member of their tour then who looks after the team ? 

Having players like Rahm , Stenson etc etc come over and play certain events keep them alive.


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## One Planer (Sep 25, 2017)

I perfectly understand the ET wanting to protect their brand. 

I dm dinky feel that the qualifying criteria could be loosened to allow the best players at the time  to be selected.


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## One Planer (Oct 9, 2017)

'Bjorn wants Casey for Ryder Cup'

http://www.skysports.com/share/11073983

This'll be interesting.


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## londonlewis (Oct 10, 2017)

I initially disliked Paul Casey when I first took up golf. So this will have been around 2008 I suppose. I think it was because he has an air of arrogance during interviews. I can't say I am an out and out fan of his but I like him. Terrific golfer and as others have mentioned, he hasn't delivered winning results on par with his talent. 

I'd like to see him in the Ryder Cup though. I think he would be good on that platform.


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## Big_G (Oct 10, 2017)

Imurg said:



			I think the European Team should be just that - a team of Europeans....and the best ones too, regardless of where they ply their trade
		
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This for me all day long :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2017)

So Casey has joined the ET

Glad they didnâ€™t make any further concessions to allow non ET members to play RC


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## londonlewis (Oct 30, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So Casey has joined the ET

Glad they didnâ€™t make any further concessions to allow non ET members to play RC
		
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I agree. The big name golfers draw the bigger crowds, so it wouldn't be great for the future of the European Tour if they all play exclusively on the PGA Tour.


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