# Jacket and Tie nonsense !!!



## User101 (Mar 11, 2018)

My club are playing St Andrews New next week and a Jacket and Tie is required afterwards, even had to go out and buy a shirt for it  are there many stuffy old clubs still carrying on this nonsense ??


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 11, 2018)

There are plenty that will ask you to wear jacket and tie for numerous occasions.


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## User101 (Mar 11, 2018)

For a presentation dinner I'd say fair enough, but for a midweek friendly match in March.


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## HankMarvin (Mar 11, 2018)

Yes all our club matches require the players to wear jacket and tie, small sacrifice to make to play great courses and good Scran :cheers:


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## Rlburnside (Mar 11, 2018)

Good job you're not going on a forum meet cos some of them are collar and tie :thup:


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## stevek1969 (Mar 11, 2018)

The small price to pay for playing a club match , only need in the season games not the winter league matches.


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 11, 2018)

As far as I am concerned, if a course I am visiting requires a jacket and tie, I will wear a jacket and tie.

Did so on Friday at Ashridge and will do again in a few days time at The Berkshire

Itâ€™s about respecting the wishes of the club members. 

Itâ€™s obviously easier if it is not required, but I donâ€™t have a problem with it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 11, 2018)

Outdated nonsense but if the club you are playing at insists then you either suck it up or don't play there.


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## Captainron (Mar 11, 2018)

Not an issue to wear a jacket and tie. If the club has its rules, I will oblige.

I like the tradition and you find itâ€™s usually the better courses which require this. Adds to the occasion


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## chrisd (Mar 11, 2018)

Most of our vets league matches have become brunch before and smart casual after - much better that collar and tie with speeches etc


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## Lwatson-jones (Mar 11, 2018)

I quite like the tradition of a jacket and tie for dinner.
so any club that I have visited that requests one for dinner following a match, i ahave been happy to oblige

Don't see what the fuss is about. you would not go to a dinner 'date' in jeans and a t shirt, so why is it even an issue to dress for an occasion?


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## User101 (Mar 11, 2018)

Lwatson-jones said:



			so why is it even an issue to dress for an occasion?
		
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No great issue, as I said, I bought a new shirt for the occasion, it just seems all a bit outdated to me. I think we play about 15 clubs in the league/friendlies and only 3 require it.


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## Jamesbrown (Mar 11, 2018)

Something that will eventually die out with the old guard. 
 My club has scrapped it altogether for anything. Though we are a young bunch with several under 30 on the committee and a no nonsense approach. 
I still get emails from my old club and their prensentation evenings are now casual. Used to be jacket and tie, so I never went.


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## Lwatson-jones (Mar 11, 2018)

Cabby said:



			No great issue, as I said, I bought a new shirt for the occasion, it just seems all a bit outdated to me. I think we play about 15 clubs in the league/friendlies and only 3 require it.
		
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So wear it 3 times, and not wear it 12 times? I still am yet to see the issue?
or wear it 12 times and not 3 times, and be seen as someone that has etiquette and a modicum of class?


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## HankMarvin (Mar 11, 2018)

Cabby said:



			No great issue, as I said, I bought a new shirt for the occasion, it just seems all a bit outdated to me. I think we play about 15 clubs in the league/friendlies and only 3 require it.
		
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Remember to wash it inbetween matches.

Do you have the old sports jacket with elbow patches (Jack Frost) style


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## User101 (Mar 11, 2018)

HankMarvin said:



			Remember to wash it inbetween matches.

Do you have the old sports jacket with elbow patches (Jack Frost) style
		
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Smoking jacket


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## HankMarvin (Mar 11, 2018)

Cabby said:



			Smoking jacket
		
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Mare like a straight jacket.....


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## williamalex1 (Mar 11, 2018)

Cabby said:



			Smoking jacket
		
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A Blazer.:smirk:


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 11, 2018)

A total anachronism that just feeds golf's fuddy-duddy image.


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## IanM (Mar 11, 2018)

Lifeâ€™s easier without it, but I respect the traditions of my host... golf club or otherwise 

I played in a Society in 2016 when after a rain soaked afternoon round, several folk just took off their spikes and went into dinner!  Nice.  Clearly thatâ€™s not the alternative, but really?


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## User101 (Mar 11, 2018)

FairwayDodger said:



			A total anachronism that just feeds golf's fuddy-duddy image.
		
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Nicely sums up my thoughts but it is St Andrews afterall so expect no less.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 11, 2018)

Not sure that it's a generational thing. 

I will shortly be 69, belong to a member's club, held office at my Club and would, therefore, appear to be the typical "Old fart!" yet to me all this jacket and tie malarkey seems hopelessly outdated. 

Mind you I do think some standards should be upheld. 

No hats  in the clubhouse and  no mobiles anywhere!


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## pauljames87 (Mar 11, 2018)

MetalMickie said:



			Not sure that it's a generational thing. 

I will shortly be 69, belong to a member's club, held office at my Club and would, therefore, appear to be the typical "Old fart!" yet to me all this jacket and tie malarkey seems hopelessly outdated. 

Mind you I do think some standards should be upheld. 

No hats  in the clubhouse and  no mobiles anywhere!
		
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agree with no hats, mobiles on silent but no calls to be taken!!! txt are fine by me

jacket I think is a complete out dated thing

other week went in the bar after a round.. very muddy so I got my waterproof trousers out the car and changed in the changing rooms into them so I was clean. good enough for me


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## chrisd (Mar 11, 2018)

I am an old fart too and I just don't want to sit for dinner for an hour + after a match, buy our guests a drink and then get home does for me


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 11, 2018)

pauljames87 said:



			agree with no hats, mobiles on silent but no calls to be taken!!! txt are fine by me

jacket I think is a complete out dated thing

other week went in the bar after a round.. very muddy so I got my waterproof trousers out the car and changed in the changing rooms into them so I was clean. good enough for me
		
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Sorry but waterproofs belong only on the course. If you could put them on could you not just change into a pair of clean trousers. 

Reminds me of the time some friends and I played at Delamere Forest on a very wet day. One of our group had forgotten his jacket and was denied access to the lounge until he donned a loaned jacket (two sizes too small) and a gravy stained tie!

Meanwhile a member stood comfortably at the bar still wearing the wet tweed plus fours he had worn to play. Water was dripping off them onto the carpet!


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## pauljames87 (Mar 11, 2018)

MetalMickie said:



			Sorry but waterproofs belong only on the course. If you could put them on could you not just change into a pair of clean trousers. 

Reminds me of the time some friends and I played at Delamere Forest on a very wet day. One of our group had forgotten his jacket and was denied access to the lounge until he donned a loaned jacket (two sizes too small) and a gravy stained tie!

Meanwhile a member stood comfortably at the bar still wearing the wet tweed plus fours he had worn to play. Water was dripping off them onto the carpet!
		
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no I could not of.. I didn't have any spare trousers on me. Didn't expect to get that muddy but the course had become a bog over the back corner .. and happened to find the boggy part so my leg got covered.. rather than going into the bar muddy I thought on my feet and changed into my waterproofs which were in my boot.. only weren't in my bag because of a last min trolley ban so went to carry the lightest way possible dropping all excess weight.

Nobody noticed but at least I didn't go in the bar covered in mud which I think would have been far worse.


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## Andy (Mar 12, 2018)

Lwatson-jones said:



			Don't see what the fuss is about. you would not go to a dinner 'date' in jeans and a t shirt, so why is it even an issue to dress for an occasion?
		
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Who goes out to dinner wearing a tie? Not in your life.


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## DaveR (Mar 12, 2018)

Why is it a problem to wear a jacket and tie?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 12, 2018)

DaveR said:



			Why is it a problem to wear a jacket and tie?
		
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Not a problem but why should it be necessary?

No issue with changing after golf and but smart casual should, in this day and age, be acceptable.


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## patricks148 (Mar 12, 2018)

Cabby, if you don't have a jacket and tie what do you wear when you are appearing in court?:rofl::rofl:

All our club matches are Jacket and Tie affairs,  i tend to wear a blazer myself


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## Fish (Mar 12, 2018)

I have no issue complying to a tradition that a club I am visiting wants upholding, however, you should always be able to remove your jacket to eat your meal, sat eating in your jacket is beyond the pale imo.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 12, 2018)

MetalMickie said:



			Not a problem but why should it be necessary?

No issue with changing after golf and but smart casual should, in this day and age, be acceptable.
		
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Why is this day and age any different from any previous day and age? Would you expect a high court judge to wear jeans and a t shirt?


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## Ross61 (Mar 12, 2018)

drive4show said:



			Why is this day and age any different from any previous day and age? Would you expect a high court judge to wear jeans and a t shirt?
		
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 A court attire is another place that needs updating. Even further behind the times than a stuffy golf club. Iâ€™m not advocating a judge wears wears jeans and a t-shrt, but honestly the whole wig and cape business is ridiculous.

why is it when the jacket and tie debate comes up do the ones wanting to keep the tradition come out with the scruffy jeans and t-shirt quote as the alternative. I havenâ€™t seen any modern thinking naysayer on here mention that you should be able to wear whatever you like. I believe most would advocate smart casual.


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## badgermat (Mar 12, 2018)

Why wouldn't you wear a jacket and tie if asked? It's not exactly a human rights violation.

If you don't want to dress like an adult, don't play where it's required. And don't whinge about about it if you don't like the rules, it makes you sound like a stroppy adolescent.

bm


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## User2021 (Mar 12, 2018)

Fish said:



			I have no issue complying to a tradition that a club I am visiting wants upholding, however, you should always be able to remove your jacket to eat your meal, sat eating in your jacket is beyond the pale imo.
		
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Jacket should be kept on, if wearing a Polo Shirt


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## Fish (Mar 12, 2018)

jobr1850 said:



			Jacket should be kept on, if wearing a Polo Shirt 

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&#128079;&#128514;&#128526;


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## User101 (Mar 12, 2018)

badgermat said:



			Why wouldn't you wear a jacket and tie if asked? It's not exactly a human rights violation.

If you don't want to dress like an adult, don't play where it's required. And don't whinge about about it if you don't like the rules, it makes you sound like a stroppy adolescent.

bm
		
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Yet another example of people just not reading what's posted


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## User101 (Mar 12, 2018)

Cabby said:



*are there many stuffy old clubs still carrying on this nonsense ??*

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There is what the OP said


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## Papas1982 (Mar 12, 2018)

whilst Iâ€™d prefer to wear smart casual. Jacket and tie wouldnt stop me visiting a course. Itâ€™s not like it comes as a surprise. 

The whole argument about it keeping golfs image as a stuffy place is false imo. Iâ€™d expect most office working adults wear suits, or if you go for a nice meal dress up. Fancy a nice cruise, and to eat in the top restaurants. 

If you donâ€™t want to make the effort, donâ€™t play there. Bit why this comes up so frequently I have not idea. 

Any place that you have to pay to visit,  and have itâ€™s own terms. Abide by the, or donâ€™t visit.


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## Del_Boy (Mar 12, 2018)

Cabby said:



			My club are playing St Andrews New next week and a Jacket and Tie is required afterwards, even had to go out and buy a shirt for it  are there many stuffy old clubs still carrying on this nonsense ??
		
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Not sure I would call them stuffy old clubs but I do believe their are a number of golf clubs who have a dress code that needs to be adhered to if you wish to visit their premises.


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## hovis (Mar 12, 2018)

badgermat said:



			Why wouldn't you wear a jacket and tie if asked? It's not exactly a human rights violation.

If you don't want to dress like an adult, don't play where it's required. And don't whinge about about it if you don't like the rules, it makes you sound like a stroppy adolescent.

bm
		
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so you define dressing as an adult by wearing a shirt, tie and jacket?


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## badgermat (Mar 12, 2018)

hovis said:



			so you define dressing as an adult by wearing a shirt, tie and jacket?
		
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If that's the standard required by where you want to be, then yes.

bm


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## badgermat (Mar 12, 2018)

Cabby said:



			Yet another example of people just not reading what's posted
		
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Eh, what didn't I read?

The OP complained about having to procure a shirt to meet the dress code. And implicitly about the dress code requirement for a jacket and tie.

bm


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## DRW (Mar 12, 2018)

Papas1982 said:



			The whole argument about it keeping golfs image as a stuffy place is false imo. Iâ€™d expect most office working adults wear suits, or if you go for a nice meal dress up.
		
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Interesting you mention that, I am what most people would be classed as a professional but luckily left the suits/ties in the cupboard from about 15ish years ago. None of my clients wear them. Spoke to clients about it and everyone didn't care if I turned up in a suit or not and more often than not they said they felt more relaxed if I would not wear a suit. As they are paying me money, I am more than happy to make then feel more relaxed. Golf clubs are not work, they are a club that we pay money to.

However I understand what you say and completely do not have a problem with wearing a suit/tie if thats what the club rules are.

In response to the OP, yes there are plenty of clubs around that require them. Their time is coming, but the top of the run clubs will always be the last to change, as they don't have to change for their market until later on..


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## Papas1982 (Mar 12, 2018)

DarrenWilliams said:



			Interesting you mention that, I am what most people would be classed as a professional but luckily left the suits/ties in the cupboard from about 15ish years ago. None of my clients wear them. Spoke to clients about it and everyone didn't care if I turned up in a suit or not and more often than not they said they felt more relaxed if I would not wear a suit. As they are paying me money, I am more than happy to make then feel more relaxed. Golf clubs are not work, they are a club that we pay money to.

However I understand what you say and completely do not have a problem with wearing a suit/tie if thats what the club rules are.

In response to the OP, yes there are plenty of clubs around that require them. Their time is coming, but the top of the run clubs will always be the last to change, as they don't have to change for their market until later on..
		
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I have also tried convincing our boss that we donâ€™t need to be overdressed in the office. Especially as the only clients we see are truck drivers!

i think a lot of places may head down the route of smart casual. But, if you look at golfs core demographic, the majority of them who have done office work will have for some time worn suits as a uniform. So itâ€™s harldy an alien concept for them to wear one.  

For those that think itâ€™s stuffy, what are your thoughts on people wearing jeans or tracksuits on the course? Surely you canâ€™t complain that they expect a certain level of dress at one part and not the other?


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 12, 2018)

DarrenWilliams said:



			Interesting you mention that, I am what most people would be classed as a professional but luckily left the suits/ties in the cupboard from about 15ish years ago. None of my clients wear them. Spoke to clients about it and everyone didn't care if I turned up in a suit or not and more often than not they said they felt more relaxed if I would not wear a suit. As they are paying me money, I am more than happy to make then feel more relaxed. Golf clubs are not work, they are a club that we pay money to.

However I understand what you say and completely do not have a problem with wearing a suit/tie if thats what the club rules are.

In response to the OP, yes there are plenty of clubs around that require them. Their time is coming, but the top of the run clubs will always be the last to change, as they don't have to change for their market until later on..
		
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This pretty much hits the nail for me. I stopped wearing jacket and tie for work about 15 or so years ago. Haven't worn one to visit a customer during that period, never seen a customer wear one either. 

Haven't worn a jacket and tie to a restaurant,............ever. It's an old person thing to wear them on social nights out. Only wear one to funerals and weddings now and even then they both come off as soon as I can. Golf is a social activity and having to bring out my funeral gear to wear after a round is not floating my boat, actually it is the same jacket and shirt but I have happy tie and sad tie.

This crops up once or twice a year. There are clearly people on here who believe it is the height of polite society to wear a jacket and tie and then the rest of us who live in 2018. In all of the threads on this subject I can't remember anyone saying they would refuse to wear a j & t and storm the club. All accept they have to be worn but just question their relevance today.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 12, 2018)

Papas1982 said:



			whilst Iâ€™d prefer to wear smart casual. Jacket and tie wouldnt stop me visiting a course. Itâ€™s not like it comes as a surprise. 

The whole argument about it keeping golfs image as a stuffy place is false imo. Iâ€™d expect most office working adults wear suits, or if you go for a nice meal dress up. Fancy a nice cruise, and to eat in the top restaurants. 

If you donâ€™t want to make the effort, donâ€™t play there. Bit why this comes up so frequently I have not idea. 

Any place that you have to pay to visit,  and have itâ€™s own terms. Abide by the, or donâ€™t visit.
		
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I wonder how long it is since you have been in a working office. 

I retired over eight years ago and even then very few accountants', solicitors' or other professional's  offices adhered to the need for ties to be worn.

As for the judiciary and their robes and wigs I would point out that there's an increasing number who feel that this should be changed to something more in keeping with the 21st century. 

To all that don't wish to see change I would ask if they think we went too far when we stopped wearing a jacket and tie to play in.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 12, 2018)

Papas1982 said:



			For those that think itâ€™s stuffy, what are your thoughts on people wearing jeans or tracksuits on the course? Surely you canâ€™t complain that they expect a certain level of dress at one part and not the other?
		
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Golf has found a pretty decent middle ground of chino's and polo shirts. It works for many people at work, it works on nights out, it works on the course itself and it works at the majority of golf clubs in their bar and eating areas. Jacket and tie defenders seem keen to run to the extreme, the same way as which Tony and Cherie Blair are always held up as the guaranteed replacement if we abolish the monarchy????? in order to scare anyone thinking of it. We don't need to go from tie to ripped jeans and football shirts. Golf has already found the right balance.


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## need_my_wedge (Mar 12, 2018)

Cabby said:



			My club are playing St Andrews New next week and a Jacket and Tie is required afterwards, even had to go out and buy a shirt for it  are there many stuffy old clubs still carrying on this nonsense ??
		
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We have jacket and tie for club matches if there is a meal after. If it's a breakfast match, we don't usually bother. Clubhouse and restaurant are smart casual all other times, unless a specific evening bash requests it.

If I visit other clubs that require it, then happy to wear, it really desn't bother me.


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## r0wly86 (Mar 12, 2018)

MetalMickie said:



			I wonder how long it is since you have been in a working office. 

I retired over eight years ago and even then very few accountants', solicitors' or other professional's  offices adhered to the need for ties to be worn.

As for the judiciary and their robes and wigs I would point out that there's an increasing number who feel that this should be changed to something more in keeping with the 21st century. 

To all that don't wish to see change I would ask if they think we went too far when we stopped wearing a jacket and tie to play in.
		
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The legal profession often don't wear robes and wings. It is only in certain settings. Usually the Crown Court, if you are at a tribunal, County Court, Inquest etc then the legal reps or judges will not be in robes and wigs. Usually smart business wear.

There is also a reason why traditionally they wore robes and wigs. It was so that every barrister looked the same so juries wouldn't be swayed by some lawyers being better dressed (richer) than others.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 12, 2018)

MetalMickie said:



			I wonder how long it is since you have been in a working office. 

I retired over eight years ago and even then very few accountants', solicitors' or other professional's  offices adhered to the need for ties to be worn.

As for the judiciary and their robes and wigs I would point out that there's an increasing number who feel that this should be changed to something more in keeping with the 21st century. 

To all that don't wish to see change I would ask if they think we went too far when we stopped wearing a jacket and tie to play in.
		
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I currently work in an office. Am 35 and have done so for various companies since I was 21. Always worn a suit. As I mentioned. Iâ€™m not averse to changing it, but I also expect most adults to own one. And if wearing it is a prerequisite to being able to play a course (that I want to play), Iâ€™ll wear it without any complaint.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 12, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Golf has found a pretty decent middle ground of chino's and polo shirts. It works for many people at work, it works on nights out, it works on the course itself and it works at the majority of golf clubs in their bar and eating areas. Jacket and tie defenders seem keen to run to the extreme, the same way as which Tony and Cherie Blair are always held up as the guaranteed replacement if we abolish the monarchy????? in order to scare anyone thinking of it. We don't need to go from tie to ripped jeans and football shirts. Golf has already found the right balance.
		
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My point In regard to attire on the course was simply that, we accept a course can have a level which they wish us to fit into on the course, yet not off it.

Tracksuit, suit, chinoâ€™s, flip flops, waterproofs. Itâ€™s all just clothing. If we are happy to accept their rules on the course, I donâ€™t see why people canâ€™t follow it for after. 

Itâ€™s only ever for a meal, Iâ€™d always change for a meal anyways to freshen up. So what youâ€™re putting on shouldnâ€™t really matter.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 12, 2018)

r0wly86 said:



			The legal profession often don't wear robes and wings. It is only in certain settings. Usually the Crown Court, if you are at a tribunal, County Court, Inquest etc then the legal reps or judges will not be in robes and wigs. Usually smart business wear.

There is also a reason why traditionally they wore robes and wigs. It was so that every barrister looked the same so juries wouldn't be swayed by some lawyers being better dressed (richer) than others.
		
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Yes I appreciate that many scenarios do not require the traditional garb but that only serves to emphasise the pointlessness of its continued use in other areas. 

A tradition, just like Norfolk jackets and ties in which to play golf. 

Time moves on.


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## DRW (Mar 12, 2018)

Papas1982 said:



			For those that think itâ€™s stuffy, what are your thoughts on people wearing jeans or tracksuits on the course? Surely you canâ€™t complain that they expect a certain level of dress at one part and not the other?
		
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5 years ago, my reply would have been completely different to below.

Yesterday we played at Meole Brace, a council owned course for a quick 12 holes and saw one person across a couple of fairways (so maybe my eyesight wasn't quite right) who I think was dressed in jeans and non collared white casual shirt. It didn't really bother me, didn't effect my golf, didn't turn me blind or into a stone statue. So I suppose as I don't subscribe to jacket/ties I shouldn't have a problem with other forms of normal wear (I say that whilst thinking yes I did have a slight problem, some things are hard to shake internally by my experiences :rofl:


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## Papas1982 (Mar 12, 2018)

DarrenWilliams said:



			5 years ago, my reply would have been completely different to below.

Yesterday we played at Meole Brace, a council owned course for a quick 12 holes and saw one person across a couple of fairways (so maybe my eyesight wasn't quite right) who I think was dressed in jeans and non collared white casual shirt. It didn't really bother me, didn't effect my golf, didn't turn me blind or into a stone statue. So I suppose as I don't subscribe to jacket/ties I shouldn't have a problem with other forms of normal wear (I say that whilst thinking yes I did have a slight problem, some things are hard to shake internally by my experiences :rofl:
		
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I think my only reservation seeing someone in jeans etc, would be that theyâ€™re likely new to the game and Iâ€™d hope not to get stuck behind em ðŸ˜¬


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## r0wly86 (Mar 12, 2018)

Papas1982 said:



			My point In regard to attire on the course was simply that, we accept a course can have a level which they wish us to fit into on the course, yet not off it.

Tracksuit, suit, chinoâ€™s, flip flops, waterproofs. Itâ€™s all just clothing. If we are happy to accept their rules on the course, I donâ€™t see why people canâ€™t follow it for after. 

Itâ€™s only ever for a meal, Iâ€™d always change for a meal anyways to freshen up. So what youâ€™re putting on shouldnâ€™t really matter.
		
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Not really, it's a reduction ad absurdum argument. For instance if your work said you no longer need to wear a shirt and tie to the office, it doesn't mean they do away with all dress standards and people start coming to work in mankinis and flip flops.

No one is saying that all dress codes and standards are completely removed, just questioning were that line now stands. As others have pointed out, many professions don't require jacket and tie or suits. So more and more people won't own one or own one and rarely wear it. It doesn't have the same standing as it did once. I dare say many decades ago when every profession wore suits then it was no big deal. But now it is requiring people to dress up to a standard they don't anywhere else, which gives it an air of stuffiness.

If a club required you to don full morning suit with top hat, I'm sure you would think it was bit ridiculous. So the only difference is where we individually draw the line with respect of what it OTT to require people to wear.

I think we all agree that we would wear a suit if requires as it their rule. But I don't think it helps golf's image. The vast majority of clubs aren't stuffy at all but the general public think we are all like this


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## Hacker Khan (Mar 12, 2018)

Ooooh dress codes, one of my favouite subject.  Long term readers will know my views that in 2018 quantifying someone as a good egg and a desirable person to take part in functions at your golf club based on their ability to put a skanky shirt and stained tie is not the best IMHO. 

But as already mentioned, clubs can do what they want and in some ways the type of club and its values and dress codes will mostly influence the type of person that is a member there.  But if a club insists on it don't be too surprised when golf clubs have an image of being a bit 'last century' and not being that up to date with modern societal values of what constitutes smart.  But then again some clubs may not want that, and it's a free world.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 12, 2018)

Papas1982 said:



			My point In regard to attire on the course was simply that, we accept a course can have a level which they wish us to fit into on the course, yet not off it.

Tracksuit, suit, chinoâ€™s, flip flops, waterproofs. Itâ€™s all just clothing. If we are happy to accept their rules on the course, I donâ€™t see why people canâ€™t follow it for after. 

Itâ€™s only ever for a meal, Iâ€™d always change for a meal anyways to freshen up. So what youâ€™re putting on shouldnâ€™t really matter.
		
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Many people feel uncomfortable in a jacket and tie, I do. I find them stifling and restrictive, I like to feel comfortable particularly in my social life which is the category golf fits into. If people loved them so much then they would wear them every night out but they don't, clearly some exceptions before someone posts that they wear j & t on every evening out. Chinos and polo shirt are everyday wear, j & t are not for most people now. If people like them then fill your boots, play golf and dress up afterwards. The rest of us should be allowed to remain in our golf approved clothing though.

I've mentioned it before, no one who dislikes this code is walking into a club and shouting abuse. None of us are refusing to accept a dress code that is clearly stipulated. We are just commenting that it is outdated in the modern era.


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## 94tegsi (Mar 12, 2018)

As a mid/late 30's professional, work is still smart casual. Suit/tie required for a specific presentation/meeting etc. 

Date night would be smart jeans/blazer and shirt.

Very rare that employees wear ties these days I find. I think it would be a good compromise to allow blazers with smart shirt and no tie to these "better" golf courses. 

Just find the discussion strange from a number of people who only view in extreme's.


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## Hacker Khan (Mar 12, 2018)

r0wly86 said:



			Not really, it's a reduction ad absurdum argument. For instance if your work said you no longer need to wear a shirt and tie to the office, it doesn't mean they do away with all dress standards and people start coming to work in mankinis and flip flops.

No one is saying that all dress codes and standards are completely removed, just questioning were that line now stands. *As others have pointed out, many professions don't require jacket and tie or suits.* So more and more people won't own one or own one and rarely wear it. It doesn't have the same standing as it did once. I dare say many decades ago when every profession wore suits then it was no big deal. But now it is requiring people to dress up to a standard they don't anywhere else, which gives it an air of stuffiness.

If a club required you to don full morning suit with top hat, I'm sure you would think it was bit ridiculous. So the only difference is where we individually draw the line with respect of what it OTT to require people to wear.

I think we all agree that we would wear a suit if requires as it their rule. But I don't think it helps golf's image. The vast majority of clubs aren't stuffy at all but the general public think we are all like this
		
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True story, I am off for a business meeting in a Baltic state tomorrow with a pretty high ranking official in their civil service. And the sales person from my company I am going with asked me what I would be wearing.  I said a suit and tie, why.  So he then told me that I may be a bit over dressed and to go a bit more casual. Damned if you do...


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## Papas1982 (Mar 12, 2018)

r0wly86 said:



			Not really, it's a reduction ad absurdum argument. For instance if your work said you no longer need to wear a shirt and tie to the office, it doesn't mean they do away with all dress standards and people start coming to work in mankinis and flip flops.

No one is saying that all dress codes and standards are completely removed, just questioning were that line now stands. As others have pointed out, many professions don't require jacket and tie or suits. So more and more people won't own one or own one and rarely wear it. It doesn't have the same standing as it did once. I dare say many decades ago when every profession wore suits then it was no big deal. But now it is requiring people to dress up to a standard they don't anywhere else, which gives it an air of stuffiness.

If a club required you to don full morning suit with top hat, I'm sure you would think it was bit ridiculous. So the only difference is where we individually draw the line with respect of what it OTT to require people to wear.

I think we all agree that we would wear a suit if requires as it their rule. But I don't think it helps golf's image. The vast majority of clubs aren't stuffy at all but the general public think we are all like this
		
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If my place of Work told me what level of attire was required I would dress to that level. I work shift. Suits during the day, dress down for nights. Iâ€™ve worked many a night shift if shorts and t shirt. As do many in the industry. 

I donâ€™t for one second think that we should need to wear jacket and tie for the meal after. But I think a suit is less of a stretch in imagination from what we wear on the course to say jean or tracksuits being worn for golf. 

Imo, if you are able to accept a uniform (as such) is required for the course. Then One for off it isnâ€™t difficult to follow.  

Thatâ€™s enough waffle from me.

Im off to buy a top had just in case my local muni has changed its rules for a pint ðŸºðŸ»


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## jim8flog (Mar 12, 2018)

Our seniors matches require a jacket and tie.

I remember my first match, an away match to the Isle of Wight with a coach leaving at 6am. I went the wardrobe to get a jacket and realised all my jackets were 3 sizes too large for me( first time of having to wear one in nearly 10 years).

We do abandon jackets in hot weather but still wear club ties.


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## User101 (Mar 12, 2018)

jim8flog said:



			Our seniors matches require a jacket and tie.

I .
		
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This is in my opinion where the issue Is, it's a seniors match that I refer to, which strikes me that it's a bunch of dinosaurs who are continuing to uphold it, I'm probably the youngest player on the team.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 12, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			In all of the threads on this subject I can't remember anyone saying they would refuse to wear a j & t and storm the club. All accept they have to be worn but just question their relevance today.
		
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There are loads of people on here that have said in various threads that they would refuse to play at clubs where J&T are required. Fine, doesn't bother me but I certainly wouldn't refuse a game at a top club because of the dress code. In fact, I think it adds to the occasion.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 12, 2018)

drive4show said:



			There are loads of people on here that have said in various threads that they would refuse to play at clubs where J&T are required. Fine, doesn't bother me but I certainly wouldn't refuse a game at a top club because of the dress code. In fact, I think it adds to the occasion.
		
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Let me make it clear that I totally accept that it is the  right of any Club to require their dress standards, both on and off the course, be adhered to. I would also happily comply.

However, in no way would I feel that it was adding to the experience. 

I merely feel that it may be about time that thought be given to some rules being brought in line with current times.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 12, 2018)

drive4show said:



			There are loads of people on here that have said in various threads that they would refuse to play at clubs where J&T are required. Fine, doesn't bother me but I certainly wouldn't refuse a game at a top club because of the dress code. In fact, I think it adds to the occasion.
		
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They are entitled to choose not to play somewhere. They are not entitled to attend the club, knowing the dress code, and flout the club rules. Very different situation and I don't remember anyone ever stating they would do the latter.


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## User101 (Mar 12, 2018)

Adding to the occasion?? It's a game oh gowf no lunch with the Queen.


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## Jamesbrown (Mar 12, 2018)

Iâ€™ve got a two round comp at Hollinwell this year. Thereâ€™s a dinner of which I should wear a jacket and tie or caveat. 

No thanks. You can stuff that, and your white sock rule up your Uranus. Iâ€™ll just play the golf taa. Obviously Iâ€™ll have to purchase white socks first if I play in shorts. But who owns white socks anymore? They are ghastly!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 12, 2018)

Cabby said:



			Adding to the occasion?? It's a game oh gowf no lunch with the Queen.
		
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I can play a run of the mill course any day I want but it's not every day you get to play a Royal St Georges or a Muirfield. When I get the chance it doesn't bother me in the slightest that I have to dress up.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 12, 2018)

Jamesbrown said:



			Iâ€™ve got a two round comp at Hollinwell this year. Thereâ€™s a dinner of which I should wear a jacket and tie or caveat. 

No thanks. You can stuff that, and your white sock rule up your Uranus. Iâ€™ll just play the golf taa. Obviously Iâ€™ll have to purchase white socks first if I play in shorts. But who owns white socks anymore? They are ghastly!
		
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If you win then I assume you won't be attending the prize giving then?


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 12, 2018)

If J and T are the clubs rules then os be it.
just because something is old doesnâ€™t make it bad.
Wasnt a big arguement for Brexit that â€œwe want to rule ourselves like we used to?â€


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 12, 2018)

Jamesbrown said:



			No thanks. You can stuff that, and your white sock rule up your Uranus. Iâ€™ll just play the golf taa. Obviously Iâ€™ll have to purchase white socks first if I play in shorts. But who owns white socks anymore? They are ghastly!
		
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Black socks with shorts? I'm afraid I can't condone that . Pretty much everyone I see playing golf in shorts wears white socks. They may be ankle socks but they are white, perhaps up here to match our ghastly white legs


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 12, 2018)

At those stuffy clubs why is there no equivalent of a Women's 'Jacket and tie'.
OOO these days.


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## dewsweeper (Mar 12, 2018)

Cabby said:



			This is in my opinion where the issue Is, it's a seniors match that I refer to, which strikes me that it's a bunch of dinosaurs who are continuing to uphold it, I'm probably the youngest player on the team.
		
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What a patronising remark Cabby.
I happen to be 78 and , surprise  surprise I still hold dear the right to have different views to the "yoof"of today both on and off the golf course.
I wear jeans , shorts and polo shirts ,not all at the same  time !!
I would point out, I have been your age but you have not been mine.
Your views might change as you age.
Just as an aside, in the mid 50s I had terrible arguments with  my Dad because he would not allow me to wear drain pipes and a fingertip drape jacket.


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## User101 (Mar 12, 2018)

If the cap fits as they say.


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## dewsweeper (Mar 12, 2018)

Cabby said:



			If the cap fits as they say.
		
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Thanks for that   cabby.
I am senile enough to have hoped for better  interaction from you than a tired old cliche.


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## Hacker Khan (Mar 12, 2018)

dewsweeper said:



			What a patronising remark Cabby.
I happen to be 78 and , surprise  surprise I still hold dear the right to have different views to the "yoof"of today both on and off the golf course.
*I wear jeans* , shorts and polo shirts ,not all at the same  time !!
I would point out, I have been your age but you have not been mine.
Your views might change as you age.
Just as an aside, in the mid 50s I had terrible arguments with  my Dad because he would not allow me to wear drain pipes and a fingertip drape jacket.
		
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As Jeremy Clarkson so ably demonstrates, no one over the age of 30 should wear jeans


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## Robster59 (Mar 12, 2018)

We relaxed the dress code at our club a few years ago and the only times J&T are preferred are at the Presentation Night and Past Captains Dinner.  Other than that it's all pretty relaxed.  

Saying that, if I attended another course and their rules where J&T are required then I would wear them as I am a visitor to their club, it's their rules and you should respect that.  If you don't, then don't play.  The places where these are generally required now do tend to be the more traditional clubs and/or where they know there is a demand to play their course and so they can be more stringent in the implementation of their dress code.  

I wouldn't wear jeans on the course as I think they're the most impractical trousers you could wear.  Too hot in the summer and too heavy when it rains.  There are far better practical alternatives out there.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 12, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			At those stuffy clubs why is there no equivalent of a Women's 'Jacket and tie'.
OOO these days.
		
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I was on a previous clubs committees a few years ago. At the second meeting I attended another newbie asked if we could drop the tie code as he hated ties. All the men piped up and stated that they also hated ties. One of the ladies on the committee said that it looked smart and we should continue wearing them. The other blokes looked grim, she was a scary lady, but I suggested that if the ladies on the committee were happy to come to meetings in ties in future then we would continue to do the same, equality etc. The gradual smiles that crept around the table were a joy to watch. The ties were dropped. 

In terms of dress codes, ladies have the better deal. Everything else relating to golf, not so much.


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## Orikoru (Mar 12, 2018)

I love how this topic keeps coming up and always has exactly the same camps.

Camp 1: why do some still insist on wearing a jacket and tie?
Camp 2: why can't you just wear a jacket and tie and stop moaning?

Why do they always say it?? The point is to question why it still happens. I highly doubt anyone has plowed into a golf club refusing to wear a jacket and tie and demanded to be fed. :rofl: I think they just take the straw man argument because they can't justify it beyond "grr it's tradition, grumble grumble I hate change".

I think it's outdated, definitely. The occasions where I have to wear a tie are very, very few. Weddings, funerals, probably job interviews if I had one. That is it. I don't know why the clubhouse rules couldn't be on the same level as on-the-course rules - a shirt/polo with trousers, i.e. no jeans, would be smart and acceptable to everyone I would have thought.


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## r0wly86 (Mar 12, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I was on a previous clubs committees a few years ago. At the second meeting I attended another newbie asked if we could drop the tie code as he hated ties. All the men piped up and stated that they also hated ties. One of the ladies on the committee said that it looked smart and we should continue wearing them. The other blokes looked grim, she was a scary lady, but I suggested that if the ladies on the committee were happy to come to meetings in ties in future then we would continue to do the same, equality etc. The gradual smiles that crept around the table were a joy to watch. The ties were dropped. 

*In terms of dress codes, ladies have the better deal*. Everything else relating to golf, not so much.
		
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Unless you want something other than pink, purple or white with pink or purple.

My wife took up golf, she doesn't like pink or purple. Her ladies clubs are purple, Srixon ladies balls are pink. All top are pink or purple, it's like all golf manufacturers think women are in capable of liking other colours


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## Jamesbrown (Mar 12, 2018)

drive4show said:



			If you win then I assume you won't be attending the prize giving then?
		
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You would assume correctly. 
At an old club they had a J+T policy on monthly presentation nights. I never went. Major presentation of which I won a board comp and trophy. didnâ€™t go. 

My ties are for weddings and interviews and they usually end up round my forehead at some point. And jackets are mops for vomit. 

New club, strictly casual. Collected runner up major voucher. Even took the missus and treated her to a soda and lime.


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## dewsweeper (Mar 12, 2018)

Hacker Khan said:



			As Jeremy Clarkson so ably demonstrates, no one over the age of 30 should wear jeans 

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What a put down Hacker
My missus is rolling around the conservatory floor at me   being compared to JClarkson
I feel waist size is more important than age as a measure re wearing jeans.
34 " waist for me is actually acceptable for both jeans and uplus fours .!!!!!!


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 12, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			At those stuffy clubs why is there no equivalent of a Women's 'Jacket and tie'.
OOO these days.
		
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Has caused me consternation a few times before playing one of these clubs.

"Please note, dress code is jacket and tie" 

Not a word about what that means for us, tends to suggest they don't really want us there. Usually ends with me taking a smart outfit, not changing into it and nobody saying anything....


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 12, 2018)

Jamesbrown said:



			You would assume correctly. 
At an old club they had a J+T policy on monthly presentation nights. I never went. Major presentation of which I won a board comp and trophy. didnâ€™t go. 

My ties are for weddings and interviews and they usually end up round my forehead at some point. And jackets are mops for vomit. 

New club, strictly casual. Collected runner up major voucher. Even took the missus and treated her to a soda and lime.
		
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Love it! Hope you qualify for the Ryder Cup some day, can't wait to see the team picture with only 11 players in it  :rofl:


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 12, 2018)

r0wly86 said:



			Unless you want something other than pink, purple or white with pink or purple.

My wife took up golf, she doesn't like pink or purple. Her ladies clubs are purple, Srixon ladies balls are pink. All top are pink or purple, it's like all golf manufacturers think women are in capable of liking other colours
		
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Yip. And even if you see nice women's golf gear in a magazine or a tour player wearing nobody stocks it!


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 12, 2018)

r0wly86 said:



			Unless you want something other than pink, purple or white with pink or purple.

My wife took up golf, she doesn't like pink or purple. Her ladies clubs are purple, Srixon ladies balls are pink. All top are pink or purple, it's like all golf manufacturers think women are in capable of liking other colours
		
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Fair point. At least she does not have to wear a purple tie though.


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## drdel (Mar 12, 2018)

MetalMickie said:



			Not a problem but why should it be necessary?

No issue with changing after golf and but smart casual should, in this day and age, be acceptable.
		
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Totally agree. Pretentious nonsense specifying jacket and tie will not change the character/behaviour of the wearer.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 12, 2018)

I think they should do away with the green jacket at the Masters, just give the winner a new polo shirt   :thup:


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## drdel (Mar 12, 2018)

drive4show said:



			I think they should do away with the green jacket at the Masters, just give the winner a new polo shirt   :thup:
		
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Perhaps a collarless one as per Mr T Woods !


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## JT77 (Mar 12, 2018)

I really dont mind the jacket and tie thing.  My club, its not essential, smart casual is acceptable, in the bar, golf clothing is fine, jeans, but no sports shirts etc. 
Played a match at Royal Portrush a few years back and it was jacket and tie afterwards for the meal.  It was fine, great facilities, so showered and refreshed after the game, stuck the suit on, no probs at all, the team were welcoming and friendly, had a good meal and a laugh, didnt bother me at all to have the jacket etc on.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 12, 2018)

drdel said:



			Perhaps a collarless one as per Mr T Woods !
		
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I don't care as long as it goes with jeans


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## Dibby (Mar 12, 2018)

Papas1982 said:



			I have also tried convincing our boss that we donâ€™t need to be overdressed in the office. Especially as the only clients we see are truck drivers!

I think a lot of places may head down the route of smart casual. But, if you look at golfs core demographic, the majority of them who have done office work will have for some time worn suits as a uniform. So itâ€™s hardly an alien concept for them to wear one. 

*For those that think itâ€™s stuffy, what are your thoughts on people wearing jeans or tracksuits on the course? Surely you canâ€™t complain that they expect a certain level of dress at one part and not the other?*

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Actually, this is a point I was recently pondering. If golf is a sport, why are the players taking part specifically not allowed to wear sportswear? 

I understand about tradition, but other sports have survived departing from traditional dress, tennis outfits, rugby shirts, ski wear, just for a few examples. 
With a few exceptions, nearly every other sport and leisure activity has moved on, seems odd that golf refuses to do this for some reason.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 12, 2018)

Dibby said:



			Actually, this is a point I was recently pondering. If golf is a sport, why are the players taking part specifically not allowed to wear sportswear? 

I understand about tradition, but other sports have survived departing from traditional dress, tennis outfits, rugby shirts, ski wear, just for a few examples. 
With a few exceptions, nearly every other sport and leisure activity has moved on, seems odd that golf refuses to do this for some reason.
		
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Do you think that modern hi tech materials used by Nike, Under Armour etc aren't suitable for golf?


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## fundy (Mar 12, 2018)

Cabby said:



			This is in my opinion where the issue Is, it's a seniors match that I refer to, which strikes me that it's a bunch of dinosaurs who are continuing to uphold it, I'm probably the youngest player on the team.
		
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Seniors section of the club ive just left struggled to raise a side every time the oppo requested J&T afterwards


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## Dibby (Mar 12, 2018)

drive4show said:



			Do you think that modern hi tech materials used by Nike, Under Armour etc aren't suitable for golf?
		
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They are an improvement on past clothing, but still could be better. What about golf necessitates long socks, or needing a collar, to pick just 2 examples? What is so terrible about wearing a tracksuit or a T-shirt? 

I will wear what is the required standard wherever I play, but it does puzzle me why sportswear is banned. It seems strange to stick to tradition in a way that you don't really see in other sports. As long as the clothing is not obscene or prevents the rules being followed, it should be fine. 

In this area, I think the women's professional game is a bit more progressive.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 12, 2018)

Sportswear isnâ€™t banned - golf sportswear is perfectly acceptable at all golf club - golf trousers , shorts , socks , tops etc etc 

Each sport will it own sports clothing - and depending on each sport and situation you will be required to wear specific clothing - golf clothing has evolved throughout the years just as it has in other sports. The clothing now is perfect to play golf in during all weather - shorts and light tops in the summer plus spineless shoes that are like trainers , warm gear for the winter 

And if you really want to wear trainers and a tracksuit then there are plenty of courses around that will allow it 

Just as there are more than enough golf clubs that donâ€™t require you to wear a J and T 

But Iâ€™m firmly in the camp that if a club requires you to wear one after or a society requires one then if I believe the course and society are worth then I have zero problem putting one on


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## Dibby (Mar 12, 2018)

But what is wrong with a tracksuit, t-shirt or similar?

In most other sports, you basically wear what lets you perform best, not what someone else deems to look good. Why does golf restrict this freedom?

I understand motorsport may mandate leathers or fireproofs for the participants own safety.
I understand weightlifting restricts elbow coverings, so judges can see if the weight is pressed out.
I understand rugby limits stud dimensions for other players safety.
I understand swimming restricts "sharkskin" suits because they are deemed too performance enhancing.

Why does golf restrict the wearing of tracksuits or Tshirts, apart from the fact some people think it does not look very smart.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 12, 2018)

Dibby said:



			They are an improvement on past clothing, but still could be better. What about golf necessitates long socks, or needing a collar, to pick just 2 examples? What is so terrible about wearing a tracksuit or a T-shirt? 

I will wear what is the required standard wherever I play, but it does puzzle me why sportswear is banned. It seems strange to stick to tradition in a way that you don't really see in other sports. As long as the clothing is not obscene or prevents the rules being followed, it should be fine. 

In this area, I think the women's professional game is a bit more progressive.
		
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There is nothing wrong with wearing tracksuits or t shirts but you will be very limited as to where you can play. Personally, I like to play nice courses and if that means J&T afterwards then so be it.


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## PieMan (Mar 12, 2018)

Like others, I have no problem with putting on jacket, shirt, tie after a round if that is what's required by the club. In my opinion dressing smartly at some old, traditional, clubs - like we have to do at RCP and RSG on the Kent trip for the meals afterwards - only enhances the experience.

My club adopts a relaxed dress code now - smart jeans/chinos and polo tops are perfectly acceptable in the clubhouse. Most of us though just stay in our golf gear after a round (if there's no need for a shower or scrub up) and change footwear.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 12, 2018)

Dibby said:



			But what is wrong with a tracksuit, t-shirt or similar?

In most other sports, you basically wear what lets you perform best, not what someone else deems to look good. Why does golf restrict this freedom?

I understand motorsport may mandate leathers or fireproofs for the participants own safety.
I understand weightlifting restricts elbow coverings, so judges can see if the weight is pressed out.
I understand rugby limits stud dimensions for other players safety.
I understand swimming restricts "sharkskin" suits because they are deemed too performance enhancing.

Why does golf restrict the wearing of tracksuits or Tshirts, apart from the fact some people think it does not look very smart.
		
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You can wear trainers and a tracksuit playing golf if you wish - but just as in other sports you wonâ€™t be able to do it all the time and at every club. 

I believe you perform better in specifically designed golf shoes donâ€™t you reckon ? Shoes that have the right amount of grip and comfort- just like in tennis or cricket or football or indeed any other sport that requires you to wear shoes/boots etc 

And all clothing has been designed specifically for golf - just the same as football shirts and shorts and rugby tops etc. People that play regular sports it appears to me will play that sport wearing the clothing and footwear designed to be used when playing that sport.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 12, 2018)

Dibby said:



			Actually, this is a point I was recently pondering. If golf is a sport, why are the players taking part specifically not allowed to wear sportswear? 

I understand about tradition, but other sports have survived departing from traditional dress, tennis outfits, rugby shirts, ski wear, just for a few examples. 
With a few exceptions, nearly every other sport and leisure activity has moved on, seems odd that golf refuses to do this for some reason.
		
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Not entirely true. Cricket teams still wear whites, or creams to be more accurate. They also wear long trousers, not shorts. Football teams wear a kit that matches, as do rugby players, in fact most team sports do. You can train in different gear but come match day it is uniform on. Tennis has progressed, with the exception of Wimbledon.

Snooker players no longer have to wear bow ties but the look is still formal.

Athletics and cycling have gear that suits the sport.

The weird thing relating to this thread is that the restriction extends to after the sport itself has finished.


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## r0wly86 (Mar 12, 2018)

Dibby said:



			But what is wrong with a tracksuit, t-shirt or similar?

In most other sports, you basically wear what lets you perform best, not what someone else deems to look good. Why does golf restrict this freedom?

I understand motorsport may mandate leathers or fireproofs for the participants own safety.
I understand weightlifting restricts elbow coverings, so judges can see if the weight is pressed out.
I understand rugby limits stud dimensions for other players safety.
I understand swimming restricts "sharkskin" suits because they are deemed too performance enhancing.

Why does golf restrict the wearing of tracksuits or Tshirts, apart from the fact some people think it does not look very smart.
		
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Rugby: as you say studs, not only on length but must be in accordance with world rugby regulations. Likewise any padding, scrum cap and mouth guards. No tights are to be allowed on the pitch, if the ref tells you take them off and you don't then you can be sent off. Shorts and top and a club kit so aren't really relatable to golf as you don't have much choice. I have to wear the same kit as the rest of my team, with a number on the back.

Football is much the same. As is cricket, although in cricker, amateur level anyway you have more choice but it still has to be white.

Golf has probably the greatest choice of what a player can wear over any other sport, there are only very few restrictions. Must have a collar (although Woods' shirts show that even this is not the case) no denim, no tracksuits. Other than that the world is your oyster, every sports brand has polo shirts, most sports brand will have some form of technical trouser of shorts. And if you don't want to splash out on sports gear you can pick up trouser/shorts and polo shirts from practically every clothes manufacturer in the world.

You can wear any colour, any design you like. Take rugby I will be limited to about a dozen companies that make the equipment and clothes I wear, similarly cricket.

You then have the benefit that golf wear can be worn anywhere really. I am currently at work in slazanger golf trousers and an adidas golf top, I look reasonably smart. Do you think I would be looked at the same if I rocked up to work in a tracksuit and technical t-shirt? 

Every sport has restriction on what you can wear, golf actually has the least, whilst on the course anyway


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## CliveW (Mar 12, 2018)

Cabby said:



			are there many stuffy old clubs still carrying on this nonsense ??
		
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One of our club's first senior matches is against Downfield and I'm sure they insist on jacket and tie.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 12, 2018)

I think itâ€™s how itâ€™s handled or enforced that is the key

I donâ€™t personally agree with tie and jacket but I will bring mine along if requested 

However my friends played one course in Essex (Thorndon Park) and the pro very rudely said to him you canâ€™t play in those socks you will have to buy white ones.. he didnâ€™t mind buying the socks it was the way he was spoken to about it.

I played south herts golf club a few times now and once the person in the clubhouse pointed to my hat whilst I was taking it off.. we were all coming in from a freezing cold round and straight into the bar for lunch.. (no need to change) straight through the patio door. I was mid taking my hat off when he said you will have to remove that. Another unnecessary comment in my view. If I had been walking about the bar in it for 5 mins fair play but just walking in the door and be midway taking it off.. jog on


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## Orikoru (Mar 12, 2018)

pauljames87 said:



			I think itâ€™s how itâ€™s handled or enforced that is the key

I donâ€™t personally agree with tie and jacket but I will bring mine along if requested 

However my friends played one course in Essex (Thorndon Park) and the pro very rudely said to him you canâ€™t play in those socks you will have to buy white ones.. he didnâ€™t mind buying the socks it was the way he was spoken to about it.

I played south herts golf club a few times now and once the person in the clubhouse pointed to my hat whilst I was taking it off.. we were all coming in from a freezing cold round and straight into the bar for lunch.. (no need to change) straight through the patio door. I was mid taking my hat off when he said you will have to remove that. Another unnecessary comment in my view. If I had been walking about the bar in it for 5 mins fair play but just walking in the door and be midway taking it off.. jog on
		
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I find the idea of being told what socks to wear quite staggering. The collar debates, the jacket and tie stuff, all debateable, but I can't believe anyone here believes that we, as adults, should be told what colour socks we are allowed to wear. That is absolutely unreasonable to me. 

Agree with you on the chap barking about your hat as well. Sounds like a jobsworth to me. He only had to wait a few seconds to see you were taking it off.


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## pauljames87 (Mar 12, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			I find the idea of being told what socks to wear quite staggering. The collar debates, the jacket and tie stuff, all debateable, but I can't believe anyone here believes that we, as adults, should be told what colour socks we are allowed to wear. That is absolutely unreasonable to me. 

Agree with you on the chap barking about your hat as well. Sounds like a jobsworth to me. He only had to wait a few seconds to see you were taking it off.
		
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My mate was very new to golf at the time and just assumed black shoes = black socks.. he didnâ€™t own a second pair of golf shoes back then so wore some smart dark shorts and thought nothing of it

Didnâ€™t expect to be told he had to dress like Micheal Jackson lol 

Iâ€™ve had a different mate (at south herts again) he told to tuck his shirt in.. fair enough but you only had to look at him to realise only reason it wasnâ€™t tucked in was because his belly was preventing it to be tucked.. but rules are rules and all that.. 

Jesus lol


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## Dibby (Mar 12, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Not entirely true. Cricket teams still wear whites, or creams to be more accurate. They also wear long trousers, not shorts. Football teams wear a kit that matches, as do rugby players, in fact most team sports do. You can train in different gear but come match day it is uniform on. Tennis has progressed, with the exception of Wimbledon.

Snooker players no longer have to wear bow ties but the look is still formal.

Athletics and cycling have gear that suits the sport.

The weird thing relating to this thread is that the restriction extends to after the sport itself has finished.
		
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Snooker has the mandate, so is in the same boat as golf.

Does cricket mandate white? I assumed not, as I have seen England in blue, India in light blue and Australia in yellow, but I don't follow the sport, so could be talking nonsense.
Additionally team sports are a little different, the purpose of wearing the same is to be able to identify your team mates. not just because the board like that colour.

Athletics and cycling are not mandated, that's just the best choice of gear for the sport. Golf shoes fall into this category, both being the best choice generally, and also to protect the greens (only soft spikes) I can understand this rule.

One thing I will add, people keep telling me about conforming if you want to play nice courses etc.. This post isn't about me being the rebel trackie wearing golfer, and some may be shocked to learn I don't play golf in cut off denims and a string vest. I am just trying to stimulate discussion on the concept of a sport forcing an arbitrary dress code just to conform to someones idea of smart.


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## jim8flog (Mar 12, 2018)

Cabby said:



			This is in my opinion where the issue Is, it's a seniors match that I refer to, which strikes me that it's a bunch of dinosaurs who are continuing to uphold it, I'm probably the youngest player on the team.
		
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One of the funny things is that the requirement is for a jacket, there is no specifics as to the type of jacket and some show their discontent with the type of jacket.


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## User101 (Mar 12, 2018)

CliveW said:



			One of our club's first senior matches is against Downfield and I'm sure they insist on jacket and tie.
		
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Blairgowrie ??

There are only 3 clubs that insist, St Andrews, Ladybank and Blairgowrie, I just don't get it tbh but I will conform without complaint, though I didn't put my name down for the Ladybank game as it's the day before we play St Andrews so you get one or the other and doubt Ladybank will be that great in March.


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## User101 (Mar 12, 2018)

jim8flog said:



			One of the funny things is that the requirement is for a jacket, there is no specifics as to the type of jacket and some show their discontent with the type of jacket.
		
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Now there is a thought....might wear an old bomber jacket.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 12, 2018)

Dibby said:



			Snooker has the mandate, so is in the same boat as golf.

Does cricket mandate white? I assumed not, as I have seen England in blue, India in light blue and Australia in yellow, but I don't follow the sport, so could be talking nonsense.
Additionally team sports are a little different, the purpose of wearing the same is to be able to identify your team mates. not just because the board like that colour.

Athletics and cycling are not mandated, that's just the best choice of gear for the sport. Golf shoes fall into this category, both being the best choice generally, and also to protect the greens (only soft spikes) I can understand this rule.

One thing I will add, people keep telling me about conforming if you want to play nice courses etc.. This post isn't about me being the rebel trackie wearing golfer, and some may be shocked to learn I don't play golf in cut off denims and a string vest. I am just trying to stimulate discussion on the concept of a sport forcing an arbitrary dress code just to conform to someones idea of smart.
		
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I get that, don't worry. What is smart to one person is clearly different to another, as this thread confirms.

Incidentally, cricketers in different colours is from the one day game only. All other cricket is still in whites.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 12, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I get that, don't worry. What is smart to one person is clearly different to another, as this thread confirms.

Incidentally, cricketers in different colours is from the one day game only. All other cricket is still in whites.
		
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Cricket is in white to enable the ball to be seen against the background of a player and, as a result, some leagues are having to control clubs and the amount of colour creeping onto shirts and modern style sweaters.


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## PieMan (Mar 12, 2018)

Cabby said:



			Now there is a thought....might wear an old bomber jacket.
		
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Wear a straight jacket and go Hannibal Lector style!!! &#128514;&#128514;


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## User101 (Mar 12, 2018)

PieMan said:



			Wear a straight jacket and go Hannibal Lector style!!! &#62978;&#62978;
		
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It's St Andrews I'm playing, I'd probably be escorted out of the town limits.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 12, 2018)

drive4show said:



			I can play a run of the mill course any day I want but it's not every day you get to play a Royal St Georges or a Muirfield. When I get the chance it doesn't bother me in the slightest that I have to dress up.
		
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This. Spot on and for a chance to play the old course and then sample the inside of the clubhouse, a jacket and tie seems a small inconvenience to put up with. In terms of ordinary club events, my club has done away with formal and jacket and tie for the vast majority of events and matches with the exception of one which is always a formal sit down meal after. Other than that, we have brunch before we play with the opposition and all mix in together in our golf gear (less golf shoes) and have sandwiches and chips etc after in the bar waiting for the results. Nothing formal, not extended delay and makes the day significantly shorter for those on a tight schedule


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## patricks148 (Mar 12, 2018)

Cabby said:



			It's St Andrews I'm playing, I'd probably be escorted out of the town limits.
		
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lets face it Cabby, you could be even wearing J&T:rofl:


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## williamalex1 (Mar 12, 2018)

St Andrews New, didn't require jackets when we played and dined


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## User101 (Mar 12, 2018)

williamalex1 said:



			St Andrews New, didn't require jackets when we played and dined  

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Did you play them in a club match ?


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## Dibby (Mar 12, 2018)

MetalMickie said:



			Cricket is in white to enable the ball to be seen against the background of a player and, as a result, some leagues are having to control clubs and the amount of colour creeping onto shirts and modern style sweaters.
		
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nteresting, so there is purpose to this one too.
I


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## williamalex1 (Mar 12, 2018)

Cabby said:



			Did you play them in a club match ?
		
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Nope King of Kings , Patrick was there too.


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## User101 (Mar 12, 2018)

williamalex1 said:



			Nope King of Kings , Patrick was there too. 

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nae idea what King of kings is but I'm guessing it must just be a senior match requirement,


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## patricks148 (Mar 12, 2018)

Cabby said:



			nae idea what King of kings is but I'm guessing it must just be a senior match requirement,
		
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its was just a bounce game around the new, not a club match. the old boy must just be confused


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## User101 (Mar 12, 2018)

I'm surprised they allowed such riff raff in the club, I'll have a word to make sure it doesn't happen again.


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## patricks148 (Mar 12, 2018)

Cabby said:



			I'm surprised they allowed such riff raff in the club, I'll have a word to make sure it doesn't happen again.
		
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wasn't in one of the clubs, just the new/jubilee visitors clubhouse.

Riff Raff, i'll have you know i've been in the R&A clubhouse for dinner and i didn't mind wearing J&T


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## williamalex1 (Mar 12, 2018)

Cabby said:



			nae idea what King of kings is but I'm guessing it must just be a senior match requirement,
		
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It was a nation wide forum comp a few years ago. But my point is St Andrews [new] club itself didn't require jackets to be worn anywhere, so it looks like the seniors team committee has made the rule.


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## User101 (Mar 12, 2018)

I was a member of the St Andrews club, they didnt' even allow women in the bar, did I mention dinosaurs earlier in this topic.... I did hear they'd let anyone in the R&A clubhouse though


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## patricks148 (Mar 12, 2018)

williamalex1 said:



			It was a nation wide forum comp a few years ago. But my point is St Andrews [new] club itself didn't require jackets to be worn anywhere, so it looks like the seniors team committee has made the rule.
		
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we payed and played why would we wear J&T?? Cabby is talking about a club match as in his club against one of the St Andrews clubs, not the course


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## Yant (Mar 12, 2018)

I donâ€™t understand why this is such an issue for people to deal with. In the same way that you are not welcome in a fine dining restaurant in ripped jeans and flip flops (and quite rightly so), a clubhouse requires you to dress in certain attire to access certain areas. I have no issue with that and especially not at a place like St. Andrews. 

People seem intent on changing the face of the game just for the sake of it.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 12, 2018)

Generally a *nice nonsense* and, if asked for, a sign of respect to a club, opponents or a match that I 'm more than happy to comply with - absolutely no complaints or tutting about 'not moving with the times'.  

That wider society these days seems to generally care less about respect and acceptance of the wishes of others over self (to it's detriment) does not mean that we in golf have to go down the same route.  it's not difficult.


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## Pro Zach (Mar 12, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Generally a *nice nonsense* and, if asked for, a sign of respect to a club, opponents or a match that I 'm more than happy to comply with - absolutely no complaints or tutting about 'not moving with the times'.  

That wider society these days seems to generally care less about respect and acceptance of the wishes of others over self (to it's detriment) does not mean that we in golf have to go down the same route.  it's not difficult.
		
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I think you have it the wrong way round. The â€˜if asked forâ€™ in your first paragraph is crucial to good manners and respect. The OP states a J&T is required, not requested. If the club requests that you wear a J&T it would be disrespectful not to. If they have a rule demanding you wear one then they are being disrespectful. 

Making rules dictating what people have to wear deserves no respect from anyone. If you want people to respect and accept the wishes of others, then ask nicely. Itâ€™s not difficult.


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## User101 (Mar 12, 2018)

This is what is stated in the team list.




			Jackets and ties to be worn for meal.
		
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When the games list went up is clearly stated, Jacket and Tie required for particular matches, I knew this beforehand when putting my name down, I'm happy to comply, I'm still of the opinion it's a load of nonsense but hey ho....


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## ExRabbit (Mar 13, 2018)

About ten or so years ago we had a club away-day. It was a really hot day, and in the evening the venue where we had the evening meal was really warm - no air conditioning or any kind of ventilation. I have a physical sweating problem, so I wasn't happy sitting down for the meal in my jacket.

Our captain that year was really old school and insisted we kept our jackets on throughout the meal. The club we were at had no such requirement.

I remember looking to my neighbour, a past captain, who was also struggling in the heat, and thinking, what is this all about?

Myself and my friend next to me spent a miserable two hours feeling the sweat drip down our backs, nipping outside as often as possible to take a breather.

I have never stayed for the evening meal at an away-day since, just because I never want to suffer like that again. 

Not everyone can sit down in a warn room with J+T and enjoy it.


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## Slab (Mar 13, 2018)

Iâ€™ve never played anywhere or attended a golf function that needed jacket and tie but I wonder why its required? I think why they might want jacket and tie when dining in their restaurant (and I donâ€™t think its tradition) I think itâ€™s more that they want to make sure players have changed

Thereâ€™s some that wouldnâ€™t shower or freshen up after the game and would you really want to sit next to them indoors for a couple of hours (especially on a warm day) if they just walked from 18th green to take their seat. But if the club insists on a change of clothing it will increase the likelihood that players will shower/freshen up first

Picking a jacket and tie is just a set of clothing to distinguish it from players who played in chinos/polo and then might change into chinos/polo, how do you know they actually changed (showered) at all 

Naturally if youâ€™re just having a quick drink post round (and even bar snack food) with your mates after a social game you can get away with staying dressed in the clothes you played in and eat/drink in the bar/lounge areas then shower at home, but thatâ€™s quite different to having a couple of courses in a restaurant environment after playing 

And if you think youâ€™re not that sweaty/dirty after a game ask yourself, do you want the person cooking your food to be still in their chinos/polo if they happened to play before starting on shift or might you want them to change first? (and remember youâ€™ve seen them peeing round the course and running their hands through their sweaty mop of hair too)

Iâ€™d never describe myself as a fan of jacket and tie in a golf restaurant but neither do I want to endure some random manky/sweaty bloke next to me for two hours


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## pauljames87 (Mar 13, 2018)

I played in a Society organisers event 2 weeks ago.. the dress code for lunch was smart casual 

I made the point of full on shower to warm up (week before the snow .. was so cold) and changed into my smart casual 

My playing partners and many others didnâ€™t even change

Very posh club aswell

Nobody battered an eyelid


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## Fish (Mar 13, 2018)

pauljames87 said:



			I played in a Society organisers event 2 weeks ago.. the dress code for lunch was smart casual 

I made the point of full on shower to warm up (week before the snow .. was so cold) and changed into my smart casual 

My playing partners and many others didnâ€™t even change

Very posh club aswell

Nobody battered an eyelid
		
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I think a caveat does need putting in place in these circumstances, in that it should state a change from golfing attire or that which was worn on the course into Smart Casual is required. 

Or just say Showering is compulsory and a change of clothes you dirty smelly inconsiderate bar stewards ðŸ˜¡


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## Orikoru (Mar 13, 2018)

ExRabbit said:



			About ten or so years ago we had a club away-day. It was a really hot day, and in the evening the venue where we had the evening meal was really warm - no air conditioning or any kind of ventilation. I have a physical sweating problem, so I wasn't happy sitting down for the meal in my jacket.

Our captain that year was really old school and insisted we kept our jackets on throughout the meal. The club we were at had no such requirement.

I remember looking to my neighbour, a past captain, who was also struggling in the heat, and thinking, what is this all about?

Myself and my friend next to me spent a miserable two hours feeling the sweat drip down our backs, nipping outside as often as possible to take a breather.

I have never stayed for the evening meal at an away-day since, just because I never want to suffer like that again. 

Not everyone can sit down in a warn room with J+T and enjoy it.
		
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That's farcical. If they want to say you need to wear a jacket and tie to the table then that's up to them, but to not allow you to slip your jacket off and put it on your chair is ridiculous and offensive. I would rarely eat wearing a jacket anyway - even if I'm at a wedding (one of the few times I'd be wearing a jacket), once it's food time the jacket comes off and goes on my chair.


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## DCB (Mar 13, 2018)

Fortunately times have moved on from what they were 35-40 years ago. I can remember having to change into jacket & tie after the monthly medal. Seems long time ago now.  Other than Club Prizegiving Dinner, I don't think I've worn a jacket in my own club for a long time. However, some other clubs aren't as progressive. Does that mean I will not play there ... no, it just means I take my jacket & tie for after the golf. No hardship at all.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 13, 2018)

Have seen a few interesting sights at J&T after the golf events - guys throwing on a J&T but keeping their mismatching golf trousers on. Can get a bit daft.

Prefer G&T myself....


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## GB72 (Mar 13, 2018)

The firm I worked for were top sponsors at a charity day at a nearby club. It was in July and very warm to say the least. It was over whole day and everyone had to change into jacket and tie for the meal in between rounds. The club then insisted that they keep their jackets on throughout as they had been unable to contact the club captain and apparently he was the only one who could authorise people to remove jackets in the bar and dining area.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 13, 2018)

GB72 said:



			The club then insisted that they keep their jackets on throughout as they had been unable to contact the club captain and apparently he was the only one who could authorise people to remove jackets in the bar and dining area.
		
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Now even diehards must accept this is nonsense.


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## Orikoru (Mar 13, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Now even diehards must accept this is nonsense.
		
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Imagine if they did manage to get through to him. "No, make them keep their jackets on, standards must be kept!" as he sits at home eating his Sunday lunch in his vest and pants.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 13, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Now even diehards must accept this is nonsense.
		
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Now now, you must respect the club's traditions.


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## Val (Mar 13, 2018)

Cabby said:



			Blairgowrie ??

There are only 3 clubs that insist, St Andrews, Ladybank and Blairgowrie, I just don't get it tbh but I will conform without complaint, though I didn't put my name down for the Ladybank game as it's the day before we play St Andrews so you get one or the other and doubt Ladybank will be that great in March.
		
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3 clubs plus your own you mean?


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## Val (Mar 13, 2018)

Cabby said:



			I was a member of the St Andrews club, they didnt' even allow women in the bar, did I mention dinosaurs earlier in this topic.... I did hear they'd let anyone in the R&A clubhouse though 

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Aren't they a J&T in the bar club? I thought all St Andrews clubs were.


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## Val (Mar 13, 2018)

williamalex1 said:



			St Andrews New, didn't require jackets when we played and dined  

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That was the links club house not the New Club clubhouse


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 13, 2018)

FairwayDodger said:



			Now now, you must respect the club's traditions.
		
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Fair point. Apologies all.


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## User101 (Mar 13, 2018)

Val said:



			3 clubs plus your own you mean?
		
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Nope, not my club just the three I named



Val said:



			Aren't they a J&T in the bar club? I thought all St Andrews clubs were.
		
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I don't recall but I don't ever recall having to wear such attire while I was a member.


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## Val (Mar 13, 2018)

Cabby said:



			Nope, not my club just the three I named
		
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Didn't Clive say for his seniors matches Downfield insist on J&T?




CliveW said:



			One of our club's first senior matches is against Downfield and I'm sure they insist on jacket and tie.
		
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Assuming the "THEY" part of this quote is meaning Downfield


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## User101 (Mar 13, 2018)

Val said:



			3 clubs plus your own you mean?
		
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Val said:



			Aren't they a J&T in the bar club? I thought all St Andrews clubs were.
		
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If they did they don't now. Do you think id have started this topic if my own club did it...


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 13, 2018)

Pro Zach said:



			I think you have it the wrong way round. The â€˜if asked forâ€™ in your first paragraph is crucial to good manners and respect. The OP states a J&T is required, not requested. If the club requests that you wear a J&T it would be disrespectful not to. If they have a rule demanding you wear one then they are being disrespectful. 

Making rules dictating what people have to wear deserves no respect from anyone. If you want people to respect and accept the wishes of others, then ask nicely. Itâ€™s not difficult.
		
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No - I think I've got it quite right - in this context a requirement to wear a jacket is simply a request that I know I have to comply with   And that's fine by me.


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## User101 (Mar 13, 2018)

Val said:



			Didn't Clive say for his seniors matches Downfield insist on J&T?



Assuming the "THEY" part of this quote is meaning Downfield

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I assumed he meant his club not mine, hence why I put Blairgowrie??


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## patricks148 (Mar 13, 2018)

Cabby said:



			I assumed he meant his club not mine, hence why I put Blairgowrie??
		
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Cabby just change into you pink valor lounge suite and put a jacket and tie over the top, that will  send out a message:rofl:


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## Jimaroid (Mar 13, 2018)

Val said:



			Aren't they a J&T in the bar club? I thought all St Andrews clubs were.
		
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No, but here is a clubhouse dress code; no jeans, no collarless shirts, no trainers. Only club matches that use the restaurant are J&T. 

Sounds like a perfectly decent club to me. No idea how they let Cabby in all those years ago.


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## User101 (Mar 13, 2018)

They didn't know me and I was hardly ever in the place except the time when they told my wife she wasn't allowed in the bar and had to go downstairs &#129300; where we were then asked if we were with the funeral party while dressed in bright summer clothes &#129315;&#129315;


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## Pro Zach (Mar 14, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			No - I think I've got it quite right - in this context a requirement to wear a jacket is simply a request that I know I have to comply with   And that's fine by me.
		
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Yes - you are quite right â€“ if you ignore the meaning and definition of words. But in no context is a requirement the same as a request or a request compulsory â€“ because that isnâ€™t what the words mean.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 14, 2018)

Pro Zach said:



			Yes - you are quite right â€“ if you ignore the meaning and definition of words. But in no context is a requirement the same as a request or a request compulsory â€“ because that isnâ€™t what the words mean.
		
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Yes I know.  Just in this context I always consider it a request rather than a requirement...I know that it isn't a request but it doesn't bother me in the slightest.  In fact sometimes I rather like being ask to wear a jacket and tie - that a club still sees these things as quite important in certain scenarios and circumstances.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 14, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Yes I know.  Just in this context I always consider it a request rather than a requirement...I know that it isn't a request but it doesn't bother me in the slightest.  In fact sometimes I rather like being ask to wear a jacket and tie - that a club still sees these things as quite important in certain scenarios and circumstances.
		
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If you believe it is important still then why not do it anyway? My grandad lived in a downtrodden part of Liverpool, worked in a factory all of his life on the shop floor. Never wore a tie to work in his life. Whenever he would go to his local pub, proper spit and sawdust place, he would put on a tie. Every time, never went to the pub without his tie on. Definitely no requirement, it is just what he did. If golfers feel that strongly about the tradition of J & T then I see no reason why they don't follow it through at all times, don't wait to be told you have to.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 14, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If you believe it is important still then why not do it anyway? My grandad lived in a downtrodden part of Liverpool, worked in a factory all of his life on the shop floor. Never wore a tie to work in his life. Whenever he would go to his local pub, proper spit and sawdust place, he would put on a tie. Every time, never went to the pub without his tie on. Definitely no requirement, it is just what he did. If golfers feel that strongly about the tradition of J & T then I see no reason why they don't follow it through at all times, don't wait to be told you have to.
		
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If I played more away matches then I think I most probably always would take a jacket and tie with me - whether required or not.  It's nice to be smartly dressed in jacket and tie and (especially when not required) shows a certain respect to the hosting club.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 14, 2018)

My old scratch league partner once walked into the bar immaculately dressed apart from his suit troosers.
It was his reaction to the secretary scolding him for sitting at the bar in golf gear at one minute past six. [J&T after 6pm]
The secretary knew full well that he was just about to change for the meal.

He was one of the clubs most popular members and we all had a good laugh at this. The secretary left the club soon after.:lol:


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 14, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			If I played more away matches then I think I most probably always would take a jacket and tie with me - whether required or not.  It's nice to be smartly dressed in jacket and tie and (especially when not required) shows a certain respect to the hosting club.
		
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If I keep applying that logic, why not wear it at your home club? Do you not respect there?

There is a flippancy to my comment but it gets to the hub of this whole issue. Certain people believe it is showing respect. The rest of us don't link J & T with respect at all. I show respect by being polite to people, far more important than wearing a jacket, although I have no doubt you are also polite so please do not take that as a slight :thup:


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## Slab (Mar 14, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Yes I know.  Just in this context I always consider it a request rather than a requirement...I know that it isn't a request but it doesn't bother me in the slightest.  *In fact sometimes I rather like being ask to wear a jacket and tie - that a club still sees these things as quite important in certain scenarios and circumstances*.
		
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But doesn't that just show the golf club views a purely decorative clothing accessory as important. But the necktie serves no purpose so how can it be important?
(I guess at one time it often displayed a past link to a certain military background or university college education so a person could pre-judge or befriend/discriminate against the wearer depending on what the tie depicted but I'd like to think that should be consigned to past generations)


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If I keep applying that logic, why not wear it at your home club? Do you not respect there?

There is a flippancy to my comment but it gets to the hub of this whole issue. Certain people believe it is showing respect. The rest of us don't link J & T with respect at all. I show respect by being polite to people, far more important than wearing a jacket, although I have no doubt you are also polite so please do not take that as a slight :thup:
		
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Absolutely spot on :thup:
J & T - Â£1.50 from a charity shop says so much about the person.


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## DaveR (Mar 14, 2018)

Has anyone actually come up with a valid reason NOT to wear a jacket and tie other than 'why should I have to?'


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 14, 2018)

DaveR said:



			Has anyone actually come up with a valid reason NOT to wear a jacket and tie other than 'why should I have to?'
		
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They are uncomfortable, are not golf related clothing, we would not choose to wear them.

Reverse the question, why should golfers wear them after a round?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2018)

DaveR said:



			Has anyone actually come up with a valid reason NOT to wear a jacket and tie other than 'why should I have to?'
		
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If itâ€™s to maintain a standard of dress then fill your boots, itâ€™s the making out it somehow elevates the individual wearing it, to quote the old saying, â€œyou canâ€™t make a silk purse out of a pigâ€™s earâ€


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## User101 (Mar 14, 2018)

What I'd like to know is why the particular club only require it for senior matches.


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## DaveR (Mar 14, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They are uncomfortable, are not golf related clothing, we would not choose to wear them.
		
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Uncomfortable? Maybe you bought the wrong size? 
Not golf related? Who is asking you to swing a club wearing them?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2018)

DaveR said:



			Uncomfortable? Maybe you bought the wrong size? 
Not golf related? Who is asking you to swing a club wearing them?
		
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Youâ€™ve not answered his point though.
There is only 1 reason to wear J&T and thatâ€™s because......(insert club/establishment/etc here) said so, all the other reasons are personal preferences.
The food wonâ€™t taste any better, a scumbag in a J&T is still a scumbag.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 14, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They are uncomfortable, are not golf related clothing, we would not choose to wear them.

Reverse the question, why should golfers wear them after a round?
		
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Exactly!

Obviously any club and its members are at liberty to apply any dress standards they wish (and I will abide by them).

However, that does not alter the fact that tradition alone is not a valid reason. If it were then we would be required to wear J&T at all times in all parts of the clubhouse because that was the traditional way.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 14, 2018)

DaveR said:



			Uncomfortable? Maybe you bought the wrong size? 
Not golf related? Who is asking you to swing a club wearing them?
		
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I don't find ties comfortable, I'm not alone with that. If I had to wear one it would be loose with the top button undone, probably less smart than a golf polo shirt. 

I don't wear a jacket at work, or in my social life. I have one for funerals and that is it. It is not an item of clothing that is relevant to me or many other people.

By golf related I meant, as I am sure you would know, that it is not part of regular golf wear, eg polo shirt, jumper or modern 1/4 zip top. It is not relevant, it is an outmoded view of what people believe is smart.


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## DaveR (Mar 14, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Youâ€™ve not answered his point though.
There is only 1 reason to wear J&T and thatâ€™s because......(insert club/establishment/etc here) said so, all the other reasons are personal preferences.
The food wonâ€™t taste any better, a scumbag in a J&T is still a scumbag.
		
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A 'scumbag' is less likely to a) own a J&T other than for court appearances and b) want to play the type of club that requires this dress code other than to case the joint.

I still haven't seen any valid reason why people can't wear J&T apart from not wanting to.


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## DaveR (Mar 14, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't find ties comfortable, I'm not alone with that. *If I had to wear one it would be loose with the top button undone, probably less smart than a golf polo shirt.* 

I don't wear a jacket at work, or in my social life. I have one for funerals and that is it. It is not an item of clothing that is relevant to me or many other people.

By golf related I meant, as I am sure you would know, that it is not part of regular golf wear, eg polo shirt, jumper or modern 1/4 zip top. *It is not relevant, it is an outmoded view of what people believe is smart*.
		
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In your opinion!


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 14, 2018)

DaveR said:



			I still haven't seen any valid reason why people can't wear J&T apart from not wanting to.
		
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People see what they want to see. I have still not seen a valid reason to enforce a rule that people should wear J & T.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 14, 2018)

DaveR said:



			In your opinion!
		
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Absolutely. In the same way that in your opinion wearing a J & T is smart. 

Opinions, different ones, are what make a forum :thup:


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## DaveR (Mar 14, 2018)

MetalMickie said:



			Exactly!

Obviously any club and its members are at liberty to apply any dress standards they wish (and I will abide by them).

However, that does not alter the fact that tradition alone is not a valid reason. If it were then we would be required to wear J&T at all times in all parts of the clubhouse because that was the traditional way.
		
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Clubs that have a J&T rule generally only apply it after a certain time or in certain areas of the clubhouse. Get out by 6pm or don't eat in the dining room. What's the problem?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2018)

DaveR said:



			A 'scumbag' is less likely to a) own a J&T other than for court appearances and b) want to play the type of club that requires this dress code other than to case the joint.

I still haven't seen any valid reason why people can't wear J&T apart from not wanting to.
		
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Youâ€™ve already had examples on this thread of people being forced into ill fitting jackets and manky ties.

Not all scumbags are poor or working class, you get scumbags in all walks of life. :thup:


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## DaveR (Mar 14, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Youâ€™ve already had examples on this thread of people being forced into ill fitting jackets and manky ties.

Not all scumbags are poor or working class, you get scumbags in all walks of life. :thup:
		
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The reason for that is generally because those people have ignored the dress code and not come prepared so been forced to wear whatever the club had available.

As for scumbags I agree, it is an attitude issue.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2018)

DaveR said:



			The reason for that is generally because those people have ignored the dress code and not come prepared so been forced to wear whatever the club had available.

As for scumbags I agree, it is an attitude issue.
		
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The individual has messed up, agreed for whatever reason, how then is it right to make them unconfortable or embarrass them?


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## Canary_Yellow (Mar 14, 2018)

DaveR said:



			In your opinion!
		
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It is a somewhat outdated view of what constitutes smart. You only have to look at trends across workplaces to see that. There aren't very many that still stick to wearing a suit.

However, that doesn't mean it's wrong, or inappropriate for a golf club. That's up to them and their members.

Personally, I would be put off any event that required a J&T / dinner. Primarily because I am time poor and would prefer a sociable drink at the bar and then be on my way.

Fortunately, there seems to be something to suit everyone out there.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 14, 2018)

DaveR said:



			Clubs that have a J&T rule generally only apply it after a certain time or in certain areas of the clubhouse. Get out by 6pm or don't eat in the dining room. What's the problem?
		
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Are you being deliberately obtuse in order to avoid the point that clubs are using tradition as a reason yet many have already made significant changes. 

I have played the game for over 45 years and it was not that long ago that many supposedly superior clubs required formal attire in all parts of the clubhouse with the possible exception of the "Scruffs Bar.


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## Jimaroid (Mar 14, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			People see what they want to see. I have still not seen a valid reason to enforce a rule that people should wear J & T.
		
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The reason is that a group of people formed a club and created the rule of their collective choosing.

Looking for deeper justification is nonsense, it'd be like asking why you shouldn't wear red clothes to a home match at Goodison. There's no reason why you physically couldn't, but you'd come across as a complete and utter wally that's not abiding with the spirit of the club.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 14, 2018)

MetalMickie said:



			Are you being deliberately obtuse in order to avoid the point that clubs are using tradition as a reason yet many have already made significant changes. 

I have played the game for over 45 years and it was not that long ago that many supposedly superior clubs required formal attire in all parts of the clubhouse with the possible exception of the "Scruffs Bar.
		
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Don't forget the tradition of the Men's bar that ladies may not enter. Not long ended in at least one club local to me.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 14, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If I keep applying that logic, why not wear it at your home club? Do you not respect there?

There is a flippancy to my comment but it gets to the hub of this whole issue. Certain people believe it is showing respect. The rest of us don't link J & T with respect at all. I show respect by being polite to people, far more important than wearing a jacket, although I have no doubt you are also polite so please do not take that as a slight :thup:
		
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I haven't played any home matches - but if I did then I would.  

The main point to me on all such matters (as it is on all matters of etiquette) when visiting a club is *not whether I* am comfortable that I am paying sufficient respect to my hosts - but whether *my hosts are happy *with the respect being shown - whatever rules they have in place.  

And if it is not clear to me what might be expected of me I would tend to dress and act towards what might be the most reasonably expected of me - and in most situations that would be wearing J&T - and being unfailingly polite - especially towards their lady members


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 14, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Don't forget the tradition of the Men's bar that ladies may not enter. Not long ended in at least one club local to me.
		
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Only recently gone at my Club.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I haven't played any home matches - but if I did then I would.  

The main point to me on all such matters (as it is on all matters of etiquette) when visiting a club is *not whether I* am comfortable that I am paying sufficient respect to my hosts - but whether *my hosts are happy *with the respect being shown - whatever rules they have in place.  

And if it is not clear to me what might be expected of me I would tend to dress and act towards what might be the most reasonably expected of me - and in most situations that would be wearing J&T - and being unfailingly polite - especially towards their lady members 

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I totally get the follow the rules, but youâ€™re not paying respect, you are simply following the rules, whereâ€™s their respect to you allowing you freedom of choice in what you wear.


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## DaveR (Mar 14, 2018)

MetalMickie said:



			Are you being deliberately obtuse in order to avoid the point that clubs are using tradition as a reason yet many have already made significant changes. 

I have played the game for over 45 years and it was not that long ago that many supposedly superior clubs required formal attire in all parts of the clubhouse with the possible exception of the "Scruffs Bar.
		
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No I'm not, I like the traditions and history associated with golf. I could easily ask the same of you, why do you want to change something just because you don't like it?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 14, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			I totally get the follow the rules, but youâ€™re not paying respect, you are simply following the rules, *whereâ€™s their respect to you allowing you freedom of choice in what you wear*.
		
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If that is the culture of the club then great - but it is 100% their choice and their decision - it is their club.  You play their course and enjoy their clubhouse and hospitality then you respect their wishes without question.


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## Orikoru (Mar 14, 2018)

It seems like some people just being told what to do and having arbitrary rules to follow for the sake of it. It is the British way I suppose.


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## DaveR (Mar 14, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Don't forget the tradition of the Men's bar that ladies may not enter. Not long ended in at least one club local to me.
		
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I played an old traditional club last year that had a men only bar AND a ladies only bar. It also had a mixed bar. Gives people plenty of choice  :thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			If that is the culture of the club then great - but it is 100% their choice and their decision - it is their club.  You play their course and enjoy their clubhouse and hospitality then you respect their wishes without question.
		
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Everyone â€œgetâ€™sâ€ that the reason, the question is why?

Would those Seniors behave any different or be less respectful to each other if not wearing J&T for those 3 matches?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 14, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Everyone â€œgetâ€™sâ€ that the reason, the question is why?

Would those Seniors behave any different or be less respectful to each other if not wearing J&T for those 3 matches?
		
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It doesn't matter 'why' - if the clubs wants it so then that is all that matters.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 14, 2018)

DaveR said:



			No I'm not, I like the traditions and history associated with golf. I could easily ask the same of you, why do you want to change something just because you don't like it?
		
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Presumably, therefore, you would be happy to play wearing a tweed jacket and a toe whilst only ever using hickory shafted clubs. 

Unlikely I suspect.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 14, 2018)

DaveR said:



			I played an old traditional club last year that had a men only bar AND a ladies only bar. It also had a mixed bar. Gives people plenty of choice  :thup:
		
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Not really. If I am playing with my wife we can only jointly go into one out of the three bars. No choice at all. That really is a throwback.


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## DaveR (Mar 14, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Not really. If I am playing with my wife we can only jointly go into one out of the three bars. No choice at all. That really is a throwback.
		
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I'm curious to know how many bars your club has?  Probably 90% of the clubs in Britain only have 1 bar anyway


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 14, 2018)

DaveR said:



			I'm curious to know how many bars your club has?  Probably 90% of the clubs in Britain only have 1 bar anyway   

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2 bars, general and a spike bar. The point is that anyone can go into either bar, there are no restrictions whether through gender or member / non member. Men and women, member or guest can go into 100% of our bars, that is the key point.


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## DaveR (Mar 14, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			2 bars, general and a spike bar. The point is that anyone can go into either bar, there are no restrictions whether through gender or member / non member. Men and women, member or guest can go into 100% of our bars, that is the key point.
		
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Your point is pointless. The club I'm referring to gives everyone 2 choices which is twice as many as your club.


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## User101 (Mar 14, 2018)

Dinosaurs r us &#129315;&#129315;


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## Orikoru (Mar 14, 2018)

DaveR said:



			Your point is pointless. The club I'm referring to gives everyone 2 choices which is twice as many as your club.
		
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lol you're not being serious are you? Mens and ladies only bars in 2018?? Unreal. :rofl:


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 14, 2018)

DaveR said:



			Your point is pointless. The club I'm referring to gives everyone 2 choices which is twice as many as your club.
		
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My club has 2 bars I can use. The same 2 bars for women as well. The club you refer also has 2 bars I can use, 2 bars women can use. Check your maths , the number is the same. In addition, because it is 2018, my club has 2 bars a man and women can use together, that club has 1 bar a man and women can use. ​


Orikoru said:



			lol you're not being serious are you? Mens and ladies only bars in 2018?? Unreal. :rofl:
		
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Yup


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 14, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			My club has 2 bars I can use. The same 2 bars for women as well.
		
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My club also has 2 bars, main lounge and spike bar which is basically part of the main lounge but just round the corner. It is usually filled with guys watching football, don't think I have ever seen a woman in there during my 10 years of membership.
Maybe we should put cookery programs on instead to make it more welcoming to female members   :thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			It doesn't matter 'why' - if the clubs wants it so then that is all that matters.
		
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So we canâ€™t debate any more? Pity you donâ€™t have the same outlook on the Brexit vote


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## chrisd (Mar 14, 2018)

drive4show said:



			Maybe we should put cookery programs on instead to make it more welcoming to female members   :thup:
		
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Isn't saying that worse than spitting at someone, do I see a resignation coming up ? &#129296;&#129296;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2018)

drive4show said:



			My club also has 2 bars, main lounge and spike bar which is basically part of the main lounge but just round the corner. It is usually filled with guys watching football, don't think I have ever seen a woman in there during my 10 years of membership.
Maybe we should put cookery programs on instead to make it more welcoming to female members   :thup:
		
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Or ask yourselves why women donâ€™t go in there, maybe they donâ€™t feel welcome or intimidated.

Football isnâ€™t on everyday at all hours, just seems like it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2018)

chrisd said:



			Isn't saying that worse than spitting at someone, do I see a resignation coming up ? &#129296;&#129296;
		
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Suspension only :rofl:


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 14, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Or ask yourselves why women donâ€™t go in there, maybe they donâ€™t feel welcome or intimidated.

Football isnâ€™t on everyday at all hours, just seems like it. 

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Boom! Plenty of women like watching football too, or other sports, just not the toxic atmosphere in some of these lounges.


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## drdel (Mar 14, 2018)

drive4show said:



			My club also has 2 bars, main lounge and spike bar which is basically part of the main lounge but just round the corner. It is usually filled with guys watching football, don't think I have ever seen a woman in there during my 10 years of membership.
Maybe we should put cookery programs on instead to make it more welcoming to female members   :thup:
		
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Its quite strange that Golf Clubs often continuously broadcaste Football !!


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 14, 2018)

drive4show said:



			My club also has 2 bars, main lounge and spike bar which is basically part of the main lounge but just round the corner. It is usually filled with guys watching football, don't think I have ever seen a woman in there during my 10 years of membership.
		
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Important point is that they are open to all. If one group of members choose not to go there that is up to them, you can't suit everyone.

Football, or sport, puts bums on seats in golf clubs. It keeps members in the bar longer, buying food and drink whilst they watch. Otherwise, it is play golf, chat about round, leave. Sport on the tv can mean play golf, chat about round, watch match, leave. The question is whether the money spent covers the incredibly high cost of having Sky in the club.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 14, 2018)

drdel said:



			Its quite strange that Golf Clubs often continuously broadcaste Football !!
		
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Usually golf on the TV in the main lounge.


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## IanM (Mar 14, 2018)

Back at the OP comment....

Fish has requested "black tie formal" on Saturday at dinner.  Ladies please war appropriate attire too.  


.... but I could be wrong!


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## User101 (Mar 14, 2018)

drdel said:



			Its quite strange that Golf Clubs often continuously broadcaste Football !!
		
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Not really given the majority of club members nowadays are ex football players.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 14, 2018)

drdel said:



			Its quite strange that Golf Clubs often continuously broadcaste Football !!
		
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Would suspect the majority of golf club members would also be football fans - and also cricket and rugby etc. A lot of the guys playing golf also used to the play the sports as well.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 14, 2018)

Live sport keeps people in the bar longer. Usually get a good showing for the big football, rugby and cricket games, and have introduced a second screen so we can show golf on one channel and the big match on another. For the very big golf (RC or last round of the Open) we tend to get the big screen out in the main part of the clubhouse and put food on. Last RC there was around 70 watching it and we arranged a 9 hole social comp in the morning


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## User101 (Mar 23, 2018)

I take it all back 

it did add to the occasion, if you've stepped inside the New Clubhouse you'd know why it's J&T, what a place, and the clubhouse at the course is just as stunning, the only downside was 40mph cross winds on a links course, but hey ho...great day out.


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## richart (Mar 23, 2018)

Cabby said:



			I take it all back 

it did add to the occasion, if you've stepped inside the New Clubhouse you'd know why it's J&T, what a place, and the clubhouse at the course is just as stunning, the only downside was 40mph cross winds on a links course, but hey ho...great day out.
		
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 Where is the New clubhouse ? Got invited into the members clubhouse by the 18th green on the Old. Is that the one ?


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## User101 (Mar 23, 2018)

richart said:



			Where is the New clubhouse ? Got invited into the members clubhouse by the 18th green on the Old. Is that the one ?
		
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Not the R&A clubhouse then ? I'm guessing it's the St Andrews Club you mean, tis all very confusing, there is the St Andrews New Club, the St Andrews Club and the New/Jubilee course clubhouse


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## richart (Mar 23, 2018)

Cabby said:



			Not the R&A clubhouse then ? I'm guessing it's the St Andrews Club you mean, tis all very confusing, there is the St Andrews New Club, the St Andrews Club and the New/Jubilee course clubhouse
		
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Yes the clubhouse with the small balconyâ€™s that look over the front of the 18th green. Golfcitydweller who used to be on here invited us for a beer. Like stepping back 100 years.

Jim did say he would get us temporary membership next time we go up, so imagine that would be at the New/Jubilee clubhouse ? As you say very confusing.


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## User101 (Mar 23, 2018)

That's deffo the St Andrews Club, the St Andrews New club that I was in today was like a palace. The New/Jubilee clubhouse(also like a palace) would give you temp membership on the day I assume if you were playing either courses, though that isn't actually a Golf Club in the golf club terms that we know....jeezo I don't have a clue tbh.


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## williamalex1 (Mar 23, 2018)

Cabby said:



			That's deffo the St Andrews Club, the St Andrews New club that I was in today was like a palace. The New/Jubilee clubhouse(also like a palace) would give you temp membership on the day I assume if you were playing either courses, though that isn't actually a Golf Club in the golf club terms that we know....jeezo I don't have a clue tbh.
		
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Did you like the course ?


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## User101 (Mar 23, 2018)

williamalex1 said:



			Did you like the course ?
		
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Which one ? 

Played all the older ones many times, least favourite, the Jube, The Eden was ace before they butchered it to make way for the academy, TOC is a magical place without doubt but not a great course IMO, the New has always been my favourite out of all these but in 40mph crosswinds today it was very challenging.


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## Andy (Mar 24, 2018)

richart said:



			Yes the clubhouse with the small balconyâ€™s that look over the front of the 18th green. Golfcitydweller who used to be on here invited us for a beer. Like stepping back 100 years.

Jim did say he would get us temporary membership next time we go up, so imagine that would be at the New/Jubilee clubhouse ? As you say very confusing.
		
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Yep def The St Andrews Golf Club, had many a pint with GCD and the boys, views to die for.


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## Jimaroid (Mar 24, 2018)

Cabby said:



			I take it all back 

it did add to the occasion, if you've stepped inside the New Clubhouse you'd know why it's J&T, what a place, and the clubhouse at the course is just as stunning,
		
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Scrubbed up well hasn't it? Glad you enjoyed it.

Easy to see which clubhouse it is on the club website, nestled between Russacks hotel and very recognisable white building with white tower sat above the Swilken bridge: http://www.newgolfclubstandrews.co.uk

The St Andrews GC is further up the Links road across from the 18th Green. They're both great clubs with similarly impressive clubhouses. But here's where it gets confusing; the StAndrews GC is an older club but The New was the first to have a dedicated clubhouse. The New has been on Links road for much longer. The St Andrews GC didn't have a permanent home until 1905, initially on Golf Place near to the Dunvegan Hotel, it then secured its home next to the 18th green in 1931 whereas The New has been on Links road since it was founded in 1902. So the New is the oldest clubhouse on Links road. Easy to remember!

"Famously" and with a slight twinge of sadness the New clubhouse will probably be best noted in history as the place where Tom Morris came to his end after falling down the stairs.

There's a tiny little bit of rivalry between the St Andrews GC and The New but all in good competitive spirit as many people are members of both as it provides a good spread of competitions and facilities.

It really is a magical place, we don't like to talk about it.


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## User101 (Mar 24, 2018)

I've played over there many times, hardly ever went in to the club after our games but yesterday sitting in that clubhouse really did make you realise how magical the place is. Bay window sits just back from Granny Clarks Wind so you can watch all the approach shots. 

What a place it must be in when the Open is on !!

Is it the New you're a member of Jim ??


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## Jimaroid (Mar 24, 2018)

Cabby said:



			What a place it must be in when the Open is on !!

Is it the New you're a member of Jim ??
		
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Yep. It was great in the Open, watching Arnie (the club's 4th Honorary Member) walk up and down the 18th was an incredibly poignant moment the last time. Great memory that I feel privileged to share. During Open week the access to the clubhouse has to be limited in numbers and, as can be imagined, tables and seats at the windows are in huge demand. A ballot for a table in the restaurants rota is done so that as many people as possible get to enjoy it, everyone has equal chance and it's all done in very fair fashion.

There are some small downsides to give some balance. It's a bit of an awkward location when it comes to competitions played on any course except the Old. Having to trudge or drive back from the New/Jube/Eden to enter a scorecard is a bit of a pain, especially with limited parking. Not too big a price to pay in the end but it does factor in some people's thoughts and expectations of what makes a good clubhouse. People who prefer convenience over class are obviously all wrong though.


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## User101 (Mar 24, 2018)

I did look at the board of honorary members, Arnie/Tom Morris/ was it Harry Vardon ? and A.N. other that slips my mind. 

Ye walking over to play the other courses can be a pain but I agree a very small price to pay to have a clubhouse like that. 

Can you sort out the 40mph crosswinds for the next time we're over there though, that wasn't very hospitable :whoo:


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## Jimaroid (Mar 24, 2018)

Cabby said:



			I did look at the board of honorary members, Arnie/Tom Morris/ was it Harry Vardon ? and A.N. other that slips my mind.
		
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Tom Morris, Sandy Herd, Bobby Jones, Arnold Palmer.

Don't know who's going to be the next one but there aren't many people who can put their name 5th on that list. It can only be Jack in my humble opinion.


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## richart (Mar 24, 2018)

Jimaroid said:



			Tom Morris, Sandy Herd, Bobby Jones, Arnold Palmer.

Don't know who's going to be the next one but there aren't many people who can put their name 5th on that list. It can only be Jack in my humble opinion. 

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Amazed that Jack is not already on the list.


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## Captainron (Mar 24, 2018)

Jimaroid said:



			Yep. It was great in the Open, watching Arnie (the club's 4th Honorary Member) walk up and down the 18th was an incredibly poignant moment the last time. Great memory that I feel privileged to share. During Open week the access to the clubhouse has to be limited in numbers and, as can be imagined, tables and seats at the windows are in huge demand. A ballot for a table in the restaurants rota is done so that as many people as possible get to enjoy it, everyone has equal chance and it's all done in very fair fashion.

There are some small downsides to give some balance. It's a bit of an awkward location when it comes to competitions played on any course except the Old. Having to trudge or drive back from the New/Jube/Eden to enter a scorecard is a bit of a pain, especially with limited parking. Not too big a price to pay in the end but it does factor in some people's thoughts and expectations of what makes a good clubhouse. People who prefer convenience over class are obviously all wrong though. 

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I was fortunate enough to join Jim for a meal and beverage in the New Clubhouse following my round on the Old Course. It was a superb experience. The bar has such an iconic view that you cannot help but enjoy it. Food was very good too. The view from the dining/function room upstairs is simply loveley. 

Cannot wait to get up there again.


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## dewsweeper (Mar 24, 2018)

Cabby said:



			I take it all back 

it did add to the occasion, if you've stepped inside the New Clubhouse you'd know why it's J&T, what a place, and the clubhouse at the course is just as stunning, the only downside was 40mph cross winds on a links course, but hey ho...great day out.
		
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Good to see someone change their opinion on such a divisive topic.


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