# Another Trilby Tour bit of news for RickG!!!!!



## Robobum (Dec 4, 2012)

Congratulations to our new TT2's Champions of 2012, Paul Llewellyn & James Voce!


I'll leave that with you


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## JustOne (Dec 4, 2012)

Watched that the other night.... 45pts between them, topped the pile in the qualifying.

TBH Voce did botch up two of the three play off holes in the final, but his partner made par on each of them.


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## CMAC (Dec 4, 2012)

I saw that last night, is this a new format they have?
Whats with this Voce fella, seems to be in all the TT stuff I've seen recently and commentating to boot, interesting swing.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 4, 2012)

I got the email from smug Will as well, Llewellyn played off 10. I thought it was posted on here that his club handicap is 5.8?

Was this another 'World' championship?


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## LanDog (Dec 4, 2012)

I watched it last night. I seen that they were expecting birdie on one of the playoff holes, I thought they were joking at first but they seemed deadly serious. The 2 Irish fellas they were playing against looked quite amazed that they made the final


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## duncan mackie (Dec 4, 2012)

LanDog said:



			I watched it last night. I seen that they were expecting birdie on one of the playoff holes, I thought they were joking at first but they seemed deadly serious. The 2 Irish fellas they were playing against looked quite amazed that they made the final
		
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the difference between professional amateurs and amateurs could clearly be seen with the contrast in that final (well the whole event really).


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## LanDog (Dec 4, 2012)

duncan mackie said:



			the difference between professional amateurs and amateurs could clearly be seen with the contrast in that final (well the whole event really).
		
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As always. The Trilby Tour have outdone themselves, it's amazing that they can completely ignore the blatant cheating in the competition


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## richy (Dec 4, 2012)

How has someone not picked up on these cheaters, or do they just turn a blind eye?

As long as they're full with entrants then I suppose they aren't bothered


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## LanDog (Dec 4, 2012)

richy said:



			How has someone not picked up on these cheaters, or do they just turn a blind eye?

As long as they're full with entrants then I suppose they aren't bothered
		
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I think that they are fully aware of the situation. But they simply choose to ignore it


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## bladeplayer (Dec 4, 2012)

richy said:



			How has someone not picked up on these cheaters, or do they just turn a blind eye?
		
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Not saying i disagree with you Richy but just a heads up , this is a public forum & there is a possability stuff written here could be used if the person saw it and was agrieved .. Maybe be a bit more careful or vague with the words you use .. just a thought tho thats all ..


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## richy (Dec 4, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			Not saying i disagree with you Richy but just a heads up , this is a public forum & there is a possability stuff written here could be used if the person saw it and was agrieved .. Maybe be a bit more careful or vague with the words you use .. just a thought tho thats all ..
		
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I wasn't talking about anyone in particular so if someone was "aggrieved" by what Ive written then that's their problem. Thanks for the advice tho


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## duncan mackie (Dec 4, 2012)

LanDog said:



			I think that they are fully aware of the situation. But they simply choose to ignore it
		
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I think they are in a difficult position.

They do everything they can to ensure that players understand their responsibilities regarding handicaps and are playing off current active handicaps - it's actually up to the clubs to take action if they believe that their members are not competing off appropriate handicaps.


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## patricks148 (Dec 4, 2012)

I'm wondering what these guys clubs think of all these wins esp Mr Llewellyn's.

If i'd won three Televised competitions and god knows what else, my club would be looking at my handicap for sure.


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## Fish (Dec 4, 2012)

Paul Llewellyn's current listed handicap is 5.9 but it was 12.7 back in July 2011 and 10.0 in early August 2012 and 7.8 late August (25th) so maybe his away matches and accomplishments haven't been looked at by his club as they have only cut him 2.7 in over a year after winning some (very few entered) home competitions during 2011/2012.

Surely if you won a major amateur competition during that period, not once but twice and then also a National 2's, your club should look at the handicap, and not only adjust it from the minimum amount of comps played at the home club.  

Being new to the game, I gather from reading the posts regarding the Trilby Tour that it is full of players with much higher handicaps than their playing ability, is that correct?


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## USER1999 (Dec 4, 2012)

Fish said:



			Paul Llewellyn's current listed handicap is 5.9 but it was 12.7 back in July 2011 and 10.0 in early August 2012 and 7.8 late August (25th) so maybe his away matches and accomplishments haven't been looked at by his club as they have only cut him 2.7 in over a year after winning some (very few entered) home competitions during 2011/2012.

Surely if you won a major amateur competition during that period, not once but twice and then also a National 2's, your club should look at the handicap, and not only adjust it from the minimum amount of comps played at the home club.  

Being new to the game, I gather from reading the posts regarding the Trilby Tour that it is full of players with much higher handicaps than their playing ability, is that correct?
		
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It would seem so.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 4, 2012)

It is sad that a potentially wonderful event is becoming a sombrero lottery. I don't know how TT police it better but there doesn appear to be some "manipulation and protection" by those that seem to regularly find a way into the finals. TT isn't alone though and it is becoming prevalent in a lot of Opens these days. Don't think there really is a simple answer


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## Fish (Dec 4, 2012)

Why not place a caveat that all entrants should have had to of played in no less than 6 or 8 qualifying rounds at their home club in the last 12 months.  That's not many IMO with weekend medals, midweek medals, board comps etc.

It would seem by what I looked into that very few home qualifying comps are entered into as those that succeed in major comps were too busy gallivanting around the country winning opens and National comps!

How can you win such a large National comp off 13 one year and then be playing the following year in it off only a 2.7 reduction!

Doesn't look or seem quite right at face value to me.


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## patricks148 (Dec 4, 2012)

Fish said:



			Why not place a caveat that all entrants should have had to of played in no less than 6 or 8 qualifying rounds at their home club in the last 12 months.  That's not many IMO with weekend medals, midweek medals, board comps etc.

It would seem by what I looked into that very few home qualifying comps are entered into as those that succeed in major comps were too busy gallivanting around the country winning opens and National comps!

How can you win such a large National comp off 13 one year and then be playing the following year in it off only a 2.7 reduction!

Doesn't look or seem quite right at face value to me.
		
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look on the bright side at least he had been cut 2.7 and not still been of 13. 

The other matey is still the same handicap he was 3 years ago after his first win


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## rickg (Dec 4, 2012)

Trying desperately to bite my tongue on this topic.......but.... I watched it last night not knowing the result, but immediately said to my wife "Voce and Llewelyn will win this with Muldoon and his partner runner up.......well they both got 45 points against their nearest rivals 40 and the only thing that shocked me was Muldoon lost in the semis........

Fish, the Trilby Tour isn't the only national event that Voce and Llewelyn have scored exceptionally well in over an extended period..both featured prominently in the Dubai match play championships recently...(1st & 2nd)....Voce shot a 2 under gross in the final round on the Desert Earnie Els course (7500 yards).....Voce also won a Daily Mail National event the year before..........

these major tournament organisers don't want to accept that the players that regularly win them might possibly be playing off higher handicaps than they should be......

I think it's only proper golfers that can really see what is going on here.............


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 4, 2012)

Fish said:



			Why not place a caveat that all entrants should have had to of played in no less than 6 or 8 qualifying rounds at their home club in the last 12 months.  That's not many IMO with weekend medals, midweek medals, board comps etc.

It would seem by what I looked into that very few home qualifying comps are entered into as those that succeed in major comps were too busy gallivanting around the country winning opens and National comps!

How can you win such a large National comp off 13 one year and then be playing the following year in it off only a 2.7 reduction!

Doesn't look or seem quite right at face value to me.
		
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The problem seems to be that his handicap came down from 13 to 11 in a year which is perfectly feasible but if that is the case, how come he is now playing off a club handicap of 5.9 now? As I understand it, he has been playing the game for a while and you don't take 2 shots off your handicap in a year then a further 5 shots off in a few months. 
There is also the issue of the TT events not being qualifying competitions, to all intents and purposes they are glorified society events. Unfortunately, nothing will be done about it as Willie boy is only interested in making a big pile of cash out of the whole thing. I played in it this year to find out what all the fuss was about. Was it worth Â£250? Certainly not, I played on a slightly better than average course (Frilford Heath), got a decent pair of trousers out of it and a bag that will never see the light of day again as it is pretty cheap and nasty. For the same amount of money I could have had a day out at any of the Open venues or somewhere like Sunningdale or Woodhall Spa.


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## Fish (Dec 4, 2012)

rickg said:



			Fish, the Trilby Tour isn't the only national event that Voce and Llewelyn have scored exceptionally well in over an extended period..both featured prominently in the Dubai match play championships recently...(1st & 2nd)....Voce shot a 2 under gross in the final round on the Desert Earnie Els course (7500 yards).....Voce also won a Daily Mail National event the year before..........

these major tournament organisers don't want to accept that the players that regularly win them might possibly be playing off higher handicaps than they should be......

I think it's only proper golfers that can really see what is going on here.............
		
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Thanks for the further insight, as being new to the overall game I wouldn't be aware of other competitions they have won and that has made it even worse in my eye's.

I'll have to enter next year with my dodgy handicap then


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 4, 2012)

Fish said:



			I'll have to enter next year with my dodgy handicap then 

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No you won't it's already sold out with the next intake of 'Trilby Tourians' competing at a handful of venues around England all trying to become 'World Champion 2013'


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## Hacker Khan (Dec 4, 2012)

drive4show said:



			Was it worth Â£250? Certainly not, I played on a slightly better than average course (Frilford Heath), got a decent pair of trousers out of it and a bag that will never see the light of day again as it is pretty cheap and nasty. For the same amount of money I could have had a day out at any of the Open venues or somewhere like Sunningdale or Woodhall Spa.
		
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For Â£250 you could have a weekend at Woodhall Spa playing both The Hotchkin and The Bracken, dinner bed and breakfast, a few pints and still have change from a fathing.


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## bluewolf (Dec 4, 2012)

drive4show said:



			No you won't it's already sold out with the next intake of 'Trilby Tourians' competing at a handful of venues around The Home Counties, all trying to become 'World Champion 2013'
		
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Corrected it for you mate.


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## Jaymosafehands (Dec 4, 2012)

ohhhhh boy, you lot will have kittens next week........


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## G1BB0 (Dec 4, 2012)

spill the beans Jaymo, what do you know?


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## seochris (Dec 4, 2012)

when i played with these two in dubai...in May, they were talking about what they would call their 'team'.....i suggested that a suitable name would be 'Smokey and the Bandits'!....:mmm:


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## duncan mackie (Dec 4, 2012)

G1BB0 said:



			spill the beans Jaymo, what do you know?
		
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presumably the matchplay event being televised next week.......


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## Twin Lakes (Dec 5, 2012)

If i played as often as Llewellyn and was still off 10, i'd go back to football. I love the Trilby Tour but do think some of the handicaps look a bit dodgy. however it's often the case that wherever you play, if you have a good win, you're a bandit. He's had plenty of good days though.


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## JustOne (Dec 5, 2012)

G1BB0 said:



			spill the beans Jaymo, what do you know?
		
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Yeh,... fess up Jaymo!!!


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## Jaymosafehands (Dec 5, 2012)

Matchplay is on next week, an event I played in. All I'll say is someone hit a worldy of a shot - even Seve would have       a brick - which I saw and still don't believe. Some people have all the luck!!

I'm a big fan of the TT, and believe away from the hype & bravado Will is trying to do something for us 'normal' golfers. Ok, he earns a bob from it I expect (it's a business after all) but it delivers something different to the rest. Do I think people 'manage their handicaps - without a shadow of a doubt, but I do know that they do call the home clubs of everyone who qualifies for the final to check handicaps. 

Anyway, apologies for my fat backside on Sky again.


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## Joff (Dec 6, 2012)

Voce?


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## JustOne (Dec 6, 2012)

Joff said:



			Voce?
		
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I'll bet one of my legs it wasn't Smiffy


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 6, 2012)

Jaymosafehands said:



			Matchplay is on next week, an event I played in. All I'll say is someone hit a worldy of a shot - even Seve would have         a brick - which I saw and still don't believe. Some people have all the luck!!

I'm a big fan of the TT, and believe away from the hype & bravado Will is trying to do something for us 'normal' golfers. Ok, he earns a bob from it I expect (it's a business after all) but it delivers something different to the rest. Do I think people 'manage their handicaps - without a shadow of a doubt, *but I do know that they do call the home clubs of everyone who qualifies for the final to check handicaps. 
*
Anyway, apologies for my fat backside on Sky again. 

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That is what is causing all the uproar. In the case of Voce, he may be playing off his correct club handicap, just that he has protected it considerably for this sort of event. But in Llewelyn's case it seems he isn't playing off his club handicap. Someone on here is a member at the same club and posted to say his club handicap is 5.8 or 5.9 yet he played in the final off 10(?)

Any low handicapper will confirm that it is practically impossible for an established golfer to get cut from 10 to 6 in a matter of weeks.


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## Fish (Dec 6, 2012)

I think the key to Llewelyn is that from July 2011 to early August 2012 he was only been cut a total of 2.7 from 12.7 to 10.00 and that was at a time when had won last year! He was then cut between early August 2012 and late August 2012 down to 7.8 and is now residing at 5.9.

I think he has definitely protected his handicap as he hardly entered any medals or board comps at his club, no doubt in preparation of this years tour! 

When did this years tour start and finish and can handicaps change during or once the competition starts?

I disagree with the comment that its impossible to come down from 10 to 6 in a matter of weeks as this year all clubs were asked to apply the ESR ruling and as such a single or back to back well under the buffer zone could have seen greater cuts issued to his handicap than the normal cat 2 status.


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## duncan mackie (Dec 6, 2012)

drive4show said:



			That is what is causing all the uproar. In the case of Voce, he may be playing off his correct club handicap, just that he has protected it considerably for this sort of event. But in Llewelyn's case it seems he isn't playing off his club handicap. Someone on here is a member at the same club and posted to say his club handicap is 5.8 or 5.9 yet he played in the final off 10(?)

Any low handicapper will confirm that it is practically impossible for an established golfer to get cut from 10 to 6 in a matter of weeks.
		
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define 'established golfer'?

that in this case an individual's handicap has fallen far behind his underlying capability (for years, not weeks) is obvious. If he hasn't got involved at his club there's not a lot they will be doing in the absence of 'reports' from 3rd parties; whether they are competition organisers or individuals.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 6, 2012)

Fish said:



			I think the key to Llewelyn is that from July 2011 to early August 2012 he was only been cut a total of 2.7 from 12.7 to 10.00 and that was at a time when had won last year! He was then cut between early August 2012 and late August 2012 down to 7.8 and is now residing at 5.9.

I think he has definitely protected his handicap as he hardly entered any medals or board comps at his club, no doubt in preparation of this years tour! 

When did this years tour start and finish and can handicaps change during or once the competition starts?

*I disagree with the comment that its impossible to come down from 10 to 6 in a matter of weeks as this year all clubs were asked to apply the ESR ruling and as such a single or back to back well under the buffer zone could have seen greater cuts issued to his handicap than the normal cat 2 status.*

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fish

My point is, if someone has been playing golf for a reasonable period of time, large handicap reductions are certainly not the norm. Agree that a newbie to the game can and will come down very quickly but a 40% reduction for a single figure player in a matter of weeks? No sorry, that to me suggests some serious handicap protection or manipulation.


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## Fish (Dec 6, 2012)

drive4show said:



			fish

My point is, if someone has been playing golf for a reasonable period of time, large handicap reductions are certainly not the norm. Agree that a newbie to the game can and will come down very quickly but a 40% reduction for a single figure player in a matter of weeks? No sorry, that to me suggests some serious handicap protection or manipulation.
		
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I agree with you.  

I read the comment as though you thought it impossible "generally" to come down that amount (10 to 6) which is why I replied in the way I did.  I also stated that I beleived he *had* protected his handicap as he played last year at 13 (12.7) and played a year later at 10.00! 

So I agree with you, you don't only come down 2.7 shots in over 12 months, start another tour and then come down from 10 to 5.9 in a matter of weeks afterwards!

Maybe they should all wear Cowboy hats instead of the obvious Sombrero's?


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## G1BB0 (Dec 6, 2012)

so in theory I could practise like hell and just buffer in medals to hold my 22 handicap, enter the TT etc off 22 knowing I can play to say 14/15 all day long.... see you in 2014


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## Scottjd1 (Dec 6, 2012)

G1BB0 said:



			so in theory I could practise like hell and just buffer in medals to hold my 22 handicap, enter the TT etc off 22 knowing I can play to say 14/15 all day long.... see you in *2020* 

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:rofl::rofl:


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## richart (Dec 6, 2012)

G1BB0 said:



			so in theory I could practise like hell and just buffer in medals to hold my 22 handicap, enter the TT etc off 22 knowing I can play to say 14/15 all day long.... see you in 2014 

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Is it not 3/4 handicap ? This should favour the lower handicappers in a stableford.


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## Jaymosafehands (Dec 6, 2012)

it is, and it should. And it did, a 1 handicapper won this year.


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## JustOne (Dec 6, 2012)

G1BB0 said:



			so in theory I could practise like hell and just buffer in medals to hold my 22 handicap, enter the TT etc off 22 knowing I can play to say 14/15 all day long.... see you in *2020* 

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Nice one Scott


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## G1BB0 (Dec 6, 2012)

gits


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## bozza (Dec 6, 2012)

I have been tempted to enter this as they play one of them at Rockliffe which is on my doorstep but after reading this i think i'll give it a miss and save my money and play some decent coures around the UK.


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## G1BB0 (Dec 6, 2012)

tbh I could play 3 or 4 forum meets at good courses for the same price.... no brainer really 

application form going in, sod playing with you bunch of bandits


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## chrisd (Dec 6, 2012)

G1BB0 said:



			tbh I could play 3 or 4 forum meets at good courses for the same price.... no brainer really 

application form going in, sod playing with you bunch of bandits 

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Ah! so last weeks bad cold was just a ruse!!!!!


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## MashieNiblick (Dec 7, 2012)

G1BB0 said:





application form going in, sod playing with you bunch of bandits 

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So I guess that's you out of the Forum Handicap challenge then.


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## Smiffy (Dec 8, 2012)

G1BB0 said:



			so in theory I could practise like hell and just buffer in medals to hold my 22 handicap, enter the TT etc off 22 knowing I can play to say 14/15 all day long....
		
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In theory, yes.
In practice?????


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## Oddsocks (Dec 8, 2012)

Alot of money to shell out only to cry off with sniffles gibbo.


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## Kellfire (Dec 10, 2012)

Here goes Voce... SS4 now.


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## G1BB0 (Dec 10, 2012)

I dont know the result so rooting for Jaymo


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## rickg (Dec 10, 2012)

G1BB0 said:



			I dont know the result so rooting for Jaymo 

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Don't hold your breath Gibbo.....winner will come as no surprise.......


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## G1BB0 (Dec 10, 2012)

pffffft waste of 30 mins there!


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## rickg (Dec 10, 2012)

G1BB0 said:



			pffffft waste of 30 mins there!
		
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Sorry didn't mean to spoil it.....


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## Jaymosafehands (Dec 10, 2012)

Sorry to let you down G1BBO! I got handed a schooling, I really thought Paul would be Voce, but anyone who can bend a ball left and right in the same shot deserves to win.


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## G1BB0 (Dec 10, 2012)

bah, you bottled it James 

must have been a decent experience though. Deffo tempted for 2014, me and my lad watched it and he wants to caddy lol


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## rickg (Dec 10, 2012)

Jaymosafehands said:



			Sorry to let you down G1BBO! I got handed a schooling, I really thought Paul would be Voce, but anyone who can bend a ball left and right in the same shot deserves to win.
		
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you were unlucky James......couple of good wins though early on........what were they saying about Captain Fantastic?


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## G1BB0 (Dec 10, 2012)

how far up each others behinds are him and Mr Hunt? 

smarmy award 2012 imho


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## Jaymosafehands (Dec 10, 2012)

rickg said:



			you were unlucky James......couple of good wins though early on........what were they saying about Captain Fantastic?
		
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Put it this way, the clapping is straight out of a sound studio! he got some stick but took it well, and to be honest he played teh best golf on the day. I was gutted, but to get beat to birdies wasn't the end of the world. Putts just stopped dropping. 

I'd have beaten Vocey .......he's run off to live in Dubai now, so someone else might get a look in. 

G1BBO, have  crack at the matchplay, for Â£30 you can't go wrong.


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## richy (Dec 10, 2012)

Funniest bit of the programme?

When Voce took his hat off hahahahah


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 10, 2012)

So how does this work, who gets selected for the 16? Has there been a series of events and these guys have won through?


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## richart (Dec 10, 2012)

richy said:



			Funniest bit of the programme?

When Voce took his hat off hahahahah
		
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 He did have a bit of a boys landing patch didn't he.


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## G1BB0 (Dec 10, 2012)

Jaymosafehands said:



			Put it this way, the clapping is straight out of a sound studio! he got some stick but took it well, and to be honest he played teh best golf on the day. I was gutted, but to get beat to birdies wasn't the end of the world. Putts just stopped dropping. 

I'd have beaten Vocey .......he's run off to live in Dubai now, so someone else might get a look in. 

G1BBO, have  crack at the matchplay, for Â£30 you can't go wrong.
		
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Â£30!!!! bargain

might do the pairs with my m8 off 9 aswell


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## Fish (Dec 11, 2012)

Just entered the Singles Matchplay  More a case of the experience and like the case its at your home club unless drawn away.

Would be interested in entering the doubles, anyone fancy partnering me? 

Is it better to have a mid to low handicapper partner a higher handicapper so there is some competitive consistency but when the higher handicapper comes in with their shots, happy days or........is there no real threat from a higher handicapper as low handicaps will always come through?

We adopt this philosophy in our B-Team games where I tend to play with a 12 handicapper or less and we win our fare share of matches.


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## patricks148 (Dec 11, 2012)

richy said:



			Funniest bit of the programme?

When Voce took his hat off hahahahah
		
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Yep that cheered me up no end, never seen the dodgy bugger without the pork pie on his head before.


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## JustOne (Dec 11, 2012)

Fish said:



			Is it better to have a mid to low handicapper partner a higher handicapper so there is some competitive consistency but when the higher handicapper comes in with their shots..
		
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No, ...much better to have 2 bandits.


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## patricks148 (Dec 12, 2012)

was just watching this again and i noticed that in the Llwelyn s Voce game the com said Voce geta shot here!!! how does a 6 handicapper playing against a 10 geta shot???

I also noticed "short Game Wizard" Muldoon was down to a 14 handicap from the 15 he was off in the final a few weeks ago!


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## duncan mackie (Dec 12, 2012)

JustOne said:



			No, ...much better to have 2 bandits. 

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absolutely!

I believe that without being more specific about the way a player plays it's daft to consider it purely on handicap ie you can have a consistent 8 handicapper in the same way as you can have a consistent 18 - you can also have players off both those handicaps that will have 1's and 3's on their stableford rounds more than a (boring) set of 2,2,2,2,2,2,2,...


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## rickg (Dec 12, 2012)

just laughing (wincing) at some of Voces post win comments:
_
"I am competitive and ruthless"

"Matchplay is my favourite type of golf. I have played in The Matchplay Championship and did quite well. I have also played in the Volvo Matchplay, I managed to win that too!"_

_
"just moving to Dubai, it has been great- I played the Earth Course out here which is a beautiful course, I managed to win the corporate day which was being held. I then got invited to play at the Abu Dhabi National Course too!"


"William Iâ€™ll see you next year.. Iâ€™ll be back to defend my Matchplay title, and I want my TT world title back, I won't rest until I do."_



the man is a serial trophy hunter........all off the same 6 handicap as well.


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## CMAC (Dec 12, 2012)

just out of curiosity, anyone know what line of work he's in?


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## rickg (Dec 12, 2012)

DarthVega said:



			just out of curiosity, anyone know what line of work he's in?
		
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he a private banker at Coutts........no rhyming slang...that's seriously what he does.


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## moogie (Dec 12, 2012)

rickg said:



			he a private banker
		
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That he IS


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## patricks148 (Dec 12, 2012)

wonder where 's a memeber and how many qual he's played in the last few years, the barest min iwi


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## rickg (Dec 12, 2012)

Some more quotes.....

_â€œTo win the Trilby Tour in front of the cameras is a once-in-a-lifetime experience"_...........not if you do it 5 times!!

_"What I like most about the Trilby is that there is a genuine field, and by that I mean you donâ€™t get a runaway winner with 45 points. In fact I donâ€™t think I've seen anyone above 40_" ..................I should hope not off 3/4 handicap...

_"Iâ€™m self taught, never had a lesson in my life â€“ Iâ€™m out there with Bubba! "_


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## duncan mackie (Dec 12, 2012)

patricks148 said:



			wonder where 's a memeber and how many qual he's played in the last few years, the barest min iwi
		
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doesn't need to play any - just chuck in 3 supplemental cards a year... but let's not get onto that one because it really doesn't matter what the mechanics are, only whether he's made an appropriate effort to ensure his handicap is a true reflection of his playing ability, or whether his club has (and I think we all agree that his TT performances over the years hint that this isn't the case )


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## patricks148 (Dec 12, 2012)

duncan mackie said:



			doesn't need to play any - just chuck in 3 supplemental cards a year... but let's not get onto that one because it really doesn't matter what the mechanics are, only whether he's made an appropriate effort to ensure his handicap is a true reflection of his playing ability, or whether his club has (and I think we all agree that his TT performances over the years hint that this isn't the case )
		
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ah yes the trusty supplementry card!!!


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## cookelad (Dec 12, 2012)

patricks148 said:



			wonder where 's a memeber and how many qual he's played in the last few years, the barest min iwi
		
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quick google says Gorsty Hill - I've got country membership there due to moving down to London after April - I know a few people who have full memberships there might do a little bit of noseying round! handicap list says 5.3 when I've looked just now!


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## patricks148 (Dec 12, 2012)

cookelad said:



			quick google says Gorsty Hill - I've got country membership there due to moving down to London after April - I know a few people who have full memberships there might do a little bit of noseying round! handicap list says 5.3 when I've looked just now!
		
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looks like he's manage to get cut 0.2 then, as every time i've seen him on tv they say he off 6.

wasn't he also a member at one of the venues he won at?

wonder if you can get a handicap breakdown for him on HDID, can't myself as my club has its own system


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## cookelad (Dec 12, 2012)

patricks148 said:



			looks like he's manage to get cut 0.2 then, as every time i've seen him on tv they say he off 6.

wasn't he also a member at one of the venues he won at?

wonder if you can get a handicap breakdown for him on HDID, can't myself as my club has its own system
		
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Because I'm registered to Shooters Hill on HDID I can only get the same info as anybody else on there unless I add him as a friend! Anyone can have a quick scoot round the competition results and have a look to see if he played! 

Curiously Gorsty seem to have dropped my handicap to 4.3 not sure on what grounds as I only played one comp there before moving south and that was definitely 0.1 increase!


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## duncan mackie (Dec 12, 2012)

cookelad said:



			Anyone can have a quick scoot round the competition results and have a look to see if he played!
		
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he plays in most of the Q comps, and handicap has varied between 5.3 and 5.8 from what I've seen.

only interesting scores were a series of holes in Captains Day where he shot 3 birdies and an eagle in 5 holes....the rest looks 'normal'!


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## patricks148 (Dec 12, 2012)

duncan mackie said:



			he plays in most of the Q comps, and handicap has varied between 5.3 and 5.8 from what I've seen.

only interesting scores were a series of holes in Captains Day where he shot 3 birdies and an eagle in 5 holes....the rest looks 'normal'!
		
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i just had a peek too, quite a few buffers and a couple of 87's its almost like its a different players scores!!!

He obv does not have that killer instinct on his home course


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## cookelad (Dec 12, 2012)

duncan mackie said:



			he plays in most of the Q comps, and handicap has varied between 5.3 and 5.8 from what I've seen.

only interesting scores were a series of holes in Captains Day where he shot 3 birdies and an eagle in 5 holes....the rest looks 'normal'!
		
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Those 4 holes are all reachable in less than regulation for a reasonably long single figure golfer - holes 7 through 12 are where you make your score round there! 12 is practically a guaranteed 3 pointer!


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## rickg (Dec 12, 2012)

duncan mackie said:



			he plays in most of the Q comps, and handicap has varied between 5.3 and 5.8 from what I've seen.

only interesting scores were a series of holes in Captains Day where he shot 3 birdies and an eagle in 5 holes....the rest looks 'normal'!
		
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Don't forget his 2 over gross round that included 2 treble bogies!!


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## bluewolf (Dec 12, 2012)

rickg said:



			Don't forget his 2 over gross round that included 2 treble bogies!!
		
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They wouldn't have been near the end of the round would they?


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## duncan mackie (Dec 12, 2012)

rickg said:



			Don't forget his 2 over gross round that included 2 treble bogies!!
		
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missed that one - unless you are referring to the Autumn Stableford in which case he ended up a little over 2 over SSS with the 2 trebles


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## patricks148 (Dec 12, 2012)

duncan mackie said:



			missed that one - unless you are referring to the Autumn Stableford in which case he ended up a little over 2 over SSS with the 2 trebles 

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I smell a rat and it s not in the kitchen either


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## Mungoscorner (Dec 12, 2012)

If he's Cat 1,then why doesn't he man up and play scratch matchplay ?
Never seen or heard of the bloke until i read this thread,sounds and looks very smug.If he wandered near a water hazard whilst in my company,i think i'd be tempted to shove him in.


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## bluewolf (Dec 12, 2012)

Mungoscorner said:



			If he's Cat 1,then why doesn't he man up and play scratch matchplay ?
Never seen or heard of the bloke until i read this thread,sounds and looks very smug.If he wandered near a water hazard whilst in my company,i think i'd be tempted to shove him in.
		
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He'd probably walk across it.


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## Kellfire (Dec 12, 2012)

It may just have been the way the footage was edited but it looked a lot like Hunt walked with Voce where possible.


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## patricks148 (Dec 12, 2012)

Mungoscorner said:



			If he's Cat 1,then why doesn't he man up and play scratch matchplay ?
Never seen or heard of the bloke until i read this thread,sounds and looks very smug.If he wandered near a water hazard whilst in my company,i think i'd be tempted to shove him in.
		
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i think you already have the answer there. he like to have that 6 shot cushion, which makes hi hard to beat handicap wise. 

it looks like he enters all big handicap comps, maybe we should enter him for some scratch events


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 12, 2012)

I think it is fairly apparent to a lot of fair minded golfers on here that he is creating a "reputation" and that can't be all good for the TT. I have no doubt he is an accomplished player but his strike rate at the really big events must be on a par with Tiger in his pomp. Dubious


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 12, 2012)

I don't get it, I'm off a similar handicap to him and I'm not interested in handicap events. Virtually all the opens I play in are scratch. I'm not good enough to win any of them but I want to test myself against the good guys to see how I compare. 

I agree, he should be going up against the big boys.


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## richy (Dec 12, 2012)

Can someone not email him a link to this thread?


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## richy (Dec 12, 2012)

drive4show said:



			I don't get it, I'm off a similar handicap to him and I'm not interested in handicap events. Virtually all the opens I play in are scratch. I'm not good enough to win any of them but I want to test myself against the good guys to see how I compare. 

I agree, he should be going up against the big boys.
		
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Probably just shows the kind of bloke he is really


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## duncan mackie (Dec 12, 2012)

richy said:



			Probably just shows the kind of bloke he is really
		
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not sure I understand this comment at all?

many of the events these poster's are referring to have an entry qualification of 5 and below, with the good ones being oversubscribed and balloted.

the person you are referencing has had such a handicap briefly in the latter part of 2012 and wouldn't have been able to get an entry into most events let alone actually end up entered!

that they, and you, don't give such matters any thought seems increasingly unsurprising in such threads - shame.


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## richy (Dec 12, 2012)

duncan mackie said:



			not sure I understand this comment at all?

many of the events these poster's are referring to have an entry qualification of 5 and below, with the good ones being oversubscribed and balloted.

the person you are referencing has had such a handicap briefly in the latter part of 2012 and wouldn't have been able to get an entry into most events let alone actually end up entered!

that they, and you, don't give such matters any thought seems increasingly unsurprising in such threads - shame.
		
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There's no way that he holds a true handicap and keeps on winning in these events every year. If he bothered to play in comps at his own club his handicap would no doubt come down and then he would be able to enter such events you mentioned.


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## duncan mackie (Dec 12, 2012)

richy said:



			There's no way that he holds a true handicap and keeps on winning in these events every year. If he bothered to play in comps at his own club his handicap would no doubt come down and then he would be able to enter such events you mentioned.
		
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have you read the recent posts???  he plays most of the weekend events at his club...

you quoted a post about his not entering elite amateur open events and I explained why that wasn't as likely as the poster you quoted suggested.

I was making no reference to the suitability of his current, or past, handicap - but neither were you in the post I queried.


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## G1BB0 (Dec 12, 2012)

has anyone thought that he handles the pressure better than the rest? He is obviously half decent off 6 and didnt win the main even as that was won by a 1 h/c!

if he scores 36 points off 3/4 so 4.5 (5) he is only really 1 shots under h/c which I am sure a lot of you low single guys can do fairly regularly aswell as the horror rounds way above or in buffer.

I dont personally know the bloke so wouldnt judge him as a person just on his TT record.


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## chrisd (Dec 13, 2012)

I watched the programme, whilst on my sick bed, with an open mind . It didn't stay open for too long, there were 16 and 18 handicappers with better swings than a lot of single figure guys I've seen, and then the "usual suspects" were hitting the most magnificent shots on a course that wouldn't have been easy I felt. Players coming out of bunkers stone dead and being described as short game wizards but playing off handicaps that should suggest that short game lessons might be a help.

It all looked like your local charity match where half the field are genuine and the other half don't have true handicaps and say that "I guess I should play off 20 as I havn't played in ages" then go out and clean up!

I wouldn't waste my hard earned on it!


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## patricks148 (Dec 13, 2012)

chrisd said:



			I watched the programme, whilst on my sick bed, with an open mind . It didn't stay open for too long, there were 16 and 18 handicappers with better swings than a lot of single figure guys I've seen, and then the "usual suspects" were hitting the most magnificent shots on a course that wouldn't have been easy I felt. Players coming out of bunkers stone dead and being described as short game wizards but playing off handicaps that should suggest that short game lessons might be a help.

It all looked like your local charity match where half the field are genuine and the other half don't have true handicaps and say that "I guess I should play off 20 as I havn't played in ages" then go out and clean up!

I wouldn't waste my hard earned on it!
		
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i esp liked the bit about the 14 handicapper Muldoon giving short game lessons to the 2 handicap


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## the hants reaper (Dec 13, 2012)

load of mickey mouse handicaps on here , at least a very low one won it , should have to play at least 6 comps at home club before they can enter this comp , still if people want bend the rules they will , i will play one day if i can hack my way to say 10 handicap


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## Jaymosafehands (Dec 13, 2012)

G1BB0 said:



			has anyone thought that he handles the pressure better than the rest? He is obviously half decent off 6 and didnt win the main even as that was won by a 1 h/c!

if he scores 36 points off 3/4 so 4.5 (5) he is only really 1 shots under h/c which I am sure a lot of you low single guys can do fairly regularly aswell as the horror rounds way above or in buffer. 

I dont personally know the bloke so wouldnt judge him as a person just on his TT record.
		
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I've had the pleasure of seeing him in action, and thats what it is. He hits the clutch putts when others (me...) lip out.


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## A1ex (Dec 16, 2012)

I've never heard of him before watching the TT the other week and seeing this thread. I wonder could some of the comments on here about him be down to the green eyed monster? 

That said, he's done well in the TT so can't see why he still competes. Surely he'd rather get down to scratch than waste time winning handicap events? Almost every single figure golfer I've met cares more about getting cut then winning competitions. Getting low is the real prize, competitions are just icing on the cake.


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## louise_a (Dec 16, 2012)

A1ex said:



			I've never heard of him before watching the TT the other week and seeing this thread. I wonder could some of the comments on here about him be down to the green eyed monster? 

That said, he's done well in the TT so can't see why he still competes. Surely he'd rather get down to scratch than waste time winning handicap events? Almost every single figure golfer I've met cares more about getting cut then winning competitions. Getting low is the real prize, competitions are just icing on the cake.
		
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Maybe he likes being on the telly?


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## Mungoscorner (Dec 16, 2012)

A1ex said:



			I've never heard of him before watching the TT the other week and seeing this thread. I wonder could some of the comments on here about him be down to the green eyed monster? 

That said, he's done well in the TT so can't see why he still competes. Surely he'd rather get down to scratch than waste time winning handicap events? Almost every single figure golfer I've met cares more about getting cut then winning competitions. Getting low is the real prize, competitions are just icing on the cake.
		
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Green eyed monster ?
Jealous of somebody off 6 winning a handicap competition ?
Not a chance.


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## rickg (Aug 29, 2013)

This years winner shot 41 points (off 3/4 h/c) and then shot level par in the 3 hole play off to win it.

https://www.facebook.com/scarmichaelbrown

Earlier this month, shot a 1 under gross round at his club..............handicap?............ 9

The prosecution rests its case m'lord.


Ironically, Paul LLewellyn was commenting about the winners handicap on the TT Facebook page.......ironic or what?


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## HawkeyeMS (Aug 29, 2013)

rickg said:



			This years winner shot 41 points (off 3/4 h/c) and then shot level par in the 3 hole play off to win it.

https://www.facebook.com/scarmichaelbrown

Earlier this month, shot a 1 under gross round at his club..............handicap?............ 9

The prosecution rests its case m'lord.


Ironically, Paul LLewellyn was commenting about the winners handicap on the TT Facebook page.......ironic or what?
		
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And people still spend Â£200+ to enter this farce


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## Alex1975 (Aug 29, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			And people still spend Â£200+ to enter this farce 

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Lol Meeeowwww


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## rickg (Aug 29, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			And people still spend Â£200+ to enter this farce 

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And I still will Mike.......with a clean conscience......


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## HawkeyeMS (Aug 29, 2013)

rickg said:



			And I still will Mike.......with a clean conscience......
		
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I'm genuinely interested by this Rick. Why do you enter when you know what goes on? Not knocking, it's your money, but seems strange that you would continue to do so.


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## bozza (Aug 29, 2013)

rickg said:



			This years winner shot 41 points (off 3/4 h/c) and then shot level par in the 3 hole play off to win it.

https://www.facebook.com/scarmichaelbrown

Earlier this month, shot a 1 under gross round at his club..............handicap?............ 9



The prosecution rests its case m'lord.


Ironically, Paul LLewellyn was commenting about the winners handicap on the TT Facebook page.......ironic or what?
		
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I was playing Rockliffe today where the final was held and asked the starter who won and his exact words were "some bandit from down south, apparently he plays off 9 but he's more like a scratch player"


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## JustOne (Aug 29, 2013)

rickg said:



			This years winner shot 41 points (off 3/4 h/c) and then shot level par in the 3 hole play off to win it.

https://www.facebook.com/scarmichaelbrown

Earlier this month, shot a 1 under gross round at his club..............handicap?............ 9

The prosecution rests its case m'lord.


Ironically, Paul LLewellyn was commenting about the winners handicap on the TT Facebook page.......ironic or what?
		
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I do think it's a bit of a farce but I wonder what you'd feel like if you shot 2 under par in your next medal? Pretty chuffed I reckon playing off 5 or 6, if you then went on to win the Trilby tour are you now a bandit?

The very nature of the comp means that whoever wins has had a 'purple patch', beating their h/cap at least 2 or 3 times on the way to the final.... so WHOEVER WINS is by default a bandit (are they not?). I don't think you can win it by having 3 rounds of 33pts can you???


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## rickg (Aug 29, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I'm genuinely interested by this Rick. Why do you enter when you know what goes on? Not knocking, it's your money, but seems strange that you would continue to do so.
		
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I only missed out on the final by 2 points this year.....for me, getting to the final is about as good as I can expect......there's no way I could win it....for me to score 41 points, I'd have to shoot 1 under gross off the back tees, but I enter accepting that. I enjoy playing it and enjoy the challenge of trying to qualify with a valid handicap.....in fact I got cut a shot the week before my qualifier.......probably in the minority there.

Despite all the bandits, (and there are so many), I won't let it spoil my enjoyment. I just wish the organisers (and the players home clubs) would wise up to them....will be interesting to see how this years winner is reported back at his club......celebrated or will they be embarrassed?


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## USER1999 (Aug 30, 2013)

JustOne said:



			I do think it's a bit of a farce but I wonder what you'd feel like if you shot 2 under par in your next medal? Pretty chuffed I reckon playing off 5 or 6, if you then went on to win the Trilby tour are you now a bandit?

The very nature of the comp means that whoever wins has had a 'purple patch', beating their h/cap at least 2 or 3 times on the way to the final.... so WHOEVER WINS is by default a bandit (are they not?). I don't think you can win it by having 3 rounds of 33pts can you??? 

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But what if you won it the next year? And the year after?


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## virtuocity (Aug 30, 2013)

JustOne said:



			I do think it's a bit of a farce but I wonder what you'd feel like if you shot 2 under par in your next medal? Pretty chuffed I reckon playing off 5 or 6, if you then went on to win the Trilby tour are you now a bandit?

The very nature of the comp means that whoever wins has had a 'purple patch', beating their h/cap at least 2 or 3 times on the way to the final.... so WHOEVER WINS is by default a bandit (are they not?). I don't think you can win it by having 3 rounds of 33pts can you??? 

Click to expand...

See your point mate, but when did you last shoot 9 under your handicap (10th August, this fellow shot even par round his home course) then follow it up 10 days later with over 40 points playing off a 75% handicap (in a competition)?

I don't think it's for anyone to say whether he is a bandit or not.  However, I think it's clear that he is playing off the wrong handicap and I would be pointing the finger mainly at his home club.


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## bozza (Aug 30, 2013)

It would be interesting to see what happens to his h/c after it's now public knowledge he has shot 41 points off a 3/4 h/c and the course was set up pretty tough as I played it the day after off yellows which is around 400 yards shorter than the tees they played off.


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## rickg (Aug 30, 2013)

bozza said:



			It would be interesting to see what happens to his h/c after it's now public knowledge he has shot 41 points off a 3/4 h/c and the course was set up pretty tough as I played it the day after off yellows which is around 400 yards shorter than the tees they played off.
		
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Well a quick look on Twitter shows that his home course (The Shire) are rejoicing his victory, claiming that The Shire "breeds champions" .......... A look on his Facebook page however reveals that he knows he has been playing way better than handicap, but not playing any qualifiers.........hmmmmm......


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## Alex1975 (Aug 30, 2013)

rickg said:



			Well a quick look on Twitter shows that his home course (The Shire) are rejoicing his victory, claiming that The Shire "breeds champions" .......... A look on his Facebook page however reveals that he knows he has been playing way better than handicap, but not playing any qualifiers.........hmmmmm......
		
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Yuk... I guess at least he is sort of up front about it now but its not a good look is it.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Aug 30, 2013)

Played in it once, saw what a total farce of a competition it is and won't be playing in it again. It's a cheats charter. I really don't understand why you bother with it Rick.


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## virtuocity (Aug 30, 2013)

rickg said:



			Well a quick look on Twitter shows that his home course (The Shire) are rejoicing his victory, claiming that The Shire "breeds champions" .......... A look on his Facebook page however reveals that he knows he has been playing way better than handicap, but not playing any qualifiers.........hmmmmm......
		
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Be sure to drop him a congratulatory tweet on his surprising victory given his handicap.


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## sebcbrown4 (Aug 30, 2013)

Hi Guys.... Seb here the 'bandit from down south' lol 

My friend found this post and i find your comments very interesting and i even agree with some of them....

In my defence (and i do not really know why i feel the need to justify myself, but i just do.....) I  have only been playing golf properly for 4.5 years and have had a steady reduction in my handicap from 18 downwards.... only getting down to 9 earlier this year..... in fact my most recent qualifying round at The Shire (my home course) was about 6 weeks ago (results available here http://www.masterscoreboard.co.uk/results/CompetitionResult.php?&CWID=3058&Competition=4656) where i went from a 8.6 up to an 8.8......I had gone through months without getting anywhere near my handicap (couldn't break 90 to save my life for a whole chunk of this year)

I invested in some lessons, to fix a very weak grip (diagnosed by head pro at the shire Lee Cox) and since then i have only been playing in match play events as i couldn't score with any consistency due to a big hook on my longer irons...., (these events were....the shire tigers league matches against other Herts clubs,  and for my old boys society (old school leavers in essex) these are non qualifying for obvious reasons as match play doubles.... i had not the time to play in any other qualifiers at the club since and simply hit the form of my life in the last month or so!!!!!  I did not shoot -1 at my own club, as someone said (the shire for anyone who hasn't played it, it s a pretty tough track, and provides a handicap that is known for travelling quite well also) i shot the -1 playing in a doubles match at Thorndon Park Golf Club in Essex, and made it with a birdie on the 18th.....

I have in fairness been practising really hard on my short game in the lead in to the Trilby Tour, in fact only qualified for the final through a nearest the pin shot out as i came T9th in my qualifier at Hanbury manor with only 32 points!!!

I then shot the tied second ever best round of my life last weekend leading into the Trilby Tour final with a +2 at Stock Golf club in Tring playing with my girlfriends Dad, Steve. I knew i was playing well and therefore had a great chance at the TT final in the Rockliffe hall, really hitting some form at the right time, and without a chance to play in any qualifying events at the Shire (genuinely not through choice but through a busy schedule) i had no alternative but to play my genuine club handicap (8.8 = 9 x .75 = playing 7 in TT), verifiable by John Reynolds at The Shire if any of you wish to check..... What should i have done cut myself???


I agree that there are some bandits who play in the Trilby Tour, however i dont think i am one of these.... I felt the need to defend myself on here as i am someone who is as passionate as you all clearly are about this great game, that has worked very hard (just ask my girlfriend, who never sees me in the evenings) over the last month or so to improve on a swing that had fallen apart, and hit the FORM OF MY LIFE (as i have said many times now) at just the right moment.... i also had a great caddy (Jack Harrison) on the day who really helped me keep in the right mindset for the event, something which those of you who have played in the TT will know is not easy when you have not only an audience there on the day but the cameras also.....

If you do the maths, had i played off 5 on the day of the final (which is about the handicap i would have been reduced to had i been able to submit the aforemetioned stroke play card at Stocks), i would have still won the event, qualifying for the playoff with 39 points instead of 41 and winning the playoff by a single shot instead of the 2 i did win by.

I am very proud of what i achieved this week, and am sure that in my next qualifying event, if i can keep this form going that is, I will indeed be cut down a shot or so... however i also know that this patch of golf cannot go on for much longer (its the nature of the beast as we all know) i just need to enjoy it while it lasts.... anyone who saw me play this week will know that i hardly strike the ball like a scratch player as someone suggested (delighted with that compliment by the way, ask anyone who plays with me at The Shire and they will tell you they are surprised to hear about my victory as i havent won anything there all year), i just had a great time on the greens, i think i had 26 putts for the regulation event so that made a big difference.....

I hope that you take this post in the correct manner it is intended as someone who felt the need to justify himself for some reason, and to defend what has turned out to be one of the best weeks of my life. I agree that there are lots of bandits playing with inflated and protected handicaps at the TT, however i do not consider myself one of these.... i can sleep easy knowing that i simply played the best golf of my life in relation to my handicap that day and am proud of it too.... surely the whole point is to get to as low a handicap as possible? thats my goal anyway, i will be delighted to get cut lower, been trying for it for ages and will mean my hard work has paid off.....

Regardless of the bandits i would recommend anyone to play in this event as it really is a fantastic experience for the amateur golfer, in no other way that i know will you get to feel like a professional and live the life of a pro for just one day!!!

Regards

Seb








virtuocity said:



			Be sure to drop him a congratulatory tweet on his surprising victory given his handicap.
		
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## sebcbrown4 (Aug 30, 2013)

Hi Guys.... Seb here the 'bandit from down south' lol 

My friend found this post and i find your comments very interesting and i even agree with some of them....

In my defence (and i do not really know why i feel the need to justify myself, but i just do.....) I have only been playing golf properly for 4.5 years and have had a steady reduction in my handicap from 18 downwards.... only getting down to 9 earlier this year..... in fact my most recent qualifying round at The Shire (my home course) was about 6 weeks ago (results available herehttp://www.masterscoreboard.co.uk/re...mpetition=4656) where i went from a 8.6 up to an 8.8......I had gone through months without getting anywhere near my handicap (couldn't break 90 to save my life for a whole chunk of this year)

I invested in some lessons, to fix a very weak grip (diagnosed by head pro at the shire Lee Cox) and since then i have only been playing in match play events as i couldn't score with any consistency due to a big hook on my longer irons...., (these events were....the shire tigers league matches against other Herts clubs, and for my old boys society (old school leavers in essex) these are non qualifying for obvious reasons as match play doubles.... i had not the time to play in any other qualifiers at the club since and simply hit the form of my life in the last month or so!!!!! I did not shoot -1 at my own club, as someone said (the shire for anyone who hasn't played it, it s a pretty tough track, and provides a handicap that is known for travelling quite well also) i shot the -1 playing in a doubles match at Thorndon Park Golf Club in Essex, and made it with a birdie on the 18th.....

I have in fairness been practising really hard on my short game in the lead in to the Trilby Tour, in fact only qualified for the final through a nearest the pin shot out as i came T9th in my qualifier at Hanbury manor with only 32 points!!!

I then shot the tied second ever best round of my life last weekend leading into the Trilby Tour final with a +2 at Stock Golf club in Tring playing with my girlfriends Dad, Steve. I knew i was playing well and therefore had a great chance at the TT final in the Rockliffe hall, really hitting some form at the right time, and without a chance to play in any qualifying events at the Shire (genuinely not through choice but through a busy schedule) i had no alternative but to play my genuine club handicap (8.8 = 9 x .75 = playing 7 in TT), verifiable by John Reynolds at The Shire if any of you wish to check..... What should i have done cut myself???


I agree that there are some bandits who play in the Trilby Tour, however i dont think i am one of these.... I felt the need to defend myself on here as i am someone who is as passionate as you all clearly are about this great game, that has worked very hard (just ask my girlfriend, who never sees me in the evenings) over the last month or so to improve on a swing that had fallen apart, and hit the FORM OF MY LIFE (as i have said many times now) at just the right moment.... i also had a great caddy (Jack Harrison) on the day who really helped me keep in the right mindset for the event, something which those of you who have played in the TT will know is not easy when you have not only an audience there on the day but the cameras also.....

If you do the maths, had i played off 5 on the day of the final (which is about the handicap i would have been reduced to had i been able to submit the aforemetioned stroke play card at Stocks), i would have still won the event, qualifying for the playoff with 39 points instead of 41 and winning the playoff by a single shot instead of the 2 i did win by.

I am very proud of what i achieved this week, and am sure that in my next qualifying event, if i can keep this form going that is, I will indeed be cut down a shot or so... however i also know that this patch of golf cannot go on for much longer (its the nature of the beast as we all know) i just need to enjoy it while it lasts.... anyone who saw me play this week will know that i hardly strike the ball like a scratch player as someone suggested (delighted with that compliment by the way, ask anyone who plays with me at The Shire and they will tell you they are surprised to hear about my victory as i havent won anything there all year), i just had a great time on the greens, i think i had 26 putts for the regulation event so that made a big difference.....

I hope that you take this post in the correct manner it is intended as someone who felt the need to justify himself for some reason, and to defend what has turned out to be one of the best weeks of my life. I agree that there are lots of bandits playing with inflated and protected handicaps at the TT, however i do not consider myself one of these.... i can sleep easy knowing that i simply played the best golf of my life in relation to my handicap that day and am proud of it too.... surely the whole point is to get to as low a handicap as possible? thats my goal anyway, i will be delighted to get cut lower, been trying for it for ages and will mean my hard work has paid off.....

Regardless of the bandits i would recommend anyone to play in this event as it really is a fantastic experience for the amateur golfer, in no other way that i know will you get to feel like a professional and live the life of a pro for just one day!!!

Regards

Seb


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## JustOne (Aug 30, 2013)

Great post Seb. Stick around :thup:


And congrats for your victory.


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## sebcbrown4 (Aug 30, 2013)

Thanks JustOne.... I just might do that.....


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## Foxholer (Aug 30, 2013)

Just checked the Handicap List on the link you provided.

A few interesting names from the footballing world. We had a few hols with Sir Les when he was practicing  there one day when I as visiting.

I can vouch for the tricky nature of the course, mainly because of the constant wind. It has its own micro-climate! There are scores to be made - I've shot level Par on each 9, so 22/23 points. Driver isn't used - except for the really big boys - until 5, so can be frustrating for low guys. And the 1st could be be a Card Wrecker in a Medal!

I'm inclined to think the course needs a change of name though. With 25 entries, maybe it should be called 'The Shah'!


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## rickg (Aug 30, 2013)

Hi Seb, thanks for coming on and explaining the situation. It sounds like you are a genuine golfer and it doesn't look like you fall into the same mold as previous winners. It just gets a bit tiring seeing the same old multiple winners, Voce, Llewellyn, Muldoon, etc, some of whom go on to win multile times in other national comps year after year without their handicaps ever getting adjusted by their clubs. 
I'd like to apologise for questioning your integrity and if its OK with you, send you a PM so we can perhaps meet up and I can apologise in person?
Maybe we can sort a game out as it looks like you are local.


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## richart (Aug 30, 2013)

Handicaps have never been the problem with the Trilby for me, as I would never play in it.

It just appears to be a huge money making operation for a certain Mr Hunt. The cost to play average courses and the poor quality clothing you are forced to wear. Â£280 for that.  I understand the courses pay to hold the event, which may explain why the top ones have nothing to do with it. To top it off the free publicity on Sky. Calling it a World Championship is just taking the proverbial.

For Â£75 you could play in the GM Help For Heroes day, play a top course like West Hill,  be well fed and give money to a 'deserving cause'. I know which one appeals more to me.:rant:


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## Stuart_C (Aug 30, 2013)

rickg said:



			Hi Seb, thanks for coming on and explaining the situation. It sounds like you are a genuine golfer and it doesn't look like you fall into the same mold as previous winners. It just gets a bit tiring seeing the same old multiple winners, Voce, Llewellyn, Muldoon, etc, some of whom go on to win multile times in other national comps year after year without their handicaps ever getting adjusted by their clubs. 
I'd like to apologise for questioning your integrity and if its OK with you, send you a PM so we can perhaps meet up and I can apologise in person?
Maybe we can sort a game out as it looks like you are local.
		
Click to expand...

Haha some serious backtracking from Mr Garg here


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## JustOne (Aug 30, 2013)

rickg said:



			I'd like to apologise for questioning your integrity and if its OK with you, send you a PM so we can perhaps meet up and I can apologise in person?
Maybe we can sort a game out as it looks like you are local.
		
Click to expand...

Playing with a winner is as close as you'll ever get to winning Rick!!  

(especially with Murph on your bag!!!) :whoo:


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## rickg (Aug 30, 2013)

richart said:



			I know which one appeals more to me.:rant:
		
Click to expand...

Come on Rich, the real reason is that you'd never get a Trilby to fit over that mop of hair isn't it?


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## rickg (Aug 30, 2013)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha some serious backtracking from Mr Garg here 

Click to expand...

Only fair...


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## richart (Aug 30, 2013)

rickg said:



			Come on Rich, the real reason is that you'd never get a Trilby to fit over that mop of hair isn't it? 

Click to expand...

 True, and I hear the penalties for not wearing your trilby are severe. More of a flat cap man.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 30, 2013)

rickg said:



			Only fair...
		
Click to expand...

Your a fair man too  Rick :wink:

Hows your new course fella?


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## rickg (Aug 30, 2013)

Stuart_C said:



			Your a fair man too  Rick :wink:

Hows your new course fella?
		
Click to expand...

Very nice thanks Stu.... Lots of lovely hub caps in the car park!!


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## Stuart_C (Aug 30, 2013)

rickg said:



			Very nice thanks Stu.... Lots of lovely hub caps in the car park!! 

Click to expand...

Haha 

I've still not had my invitation..........


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## bluewolf (Aug 31, 2013)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha 

I've still not had my invitation..........
		
Click to expand...

Where's the tumbleweed smiley when you need one......


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## CMAC (Aug 31, 2013)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha some serious backtracking from Mr Garg here 

Click to expand...

Can't believe he caved!


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## bozza (Aug 31, 2013)

I was just saying what I got told by someone at the course after the final, which did sound true as the event is known for it but it's good of you to come on here to clear things up.

What do you think of the course? It's local to me so I get to play it now and again when I'm feeling a little flush.


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