# England Summer Test Series



## Liverpoolphil (May 15, 2018)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/44105904

Really chuffed they are giving Bess a go since Leach got injured instead of going back to Ali

Surprised Stoneman survived but interested to see where they play Buttler and Bairstow


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## Lord Tyrion (May 15, 2018)

Mutterings yesterday that Bairstow would open. If that is the case then Buttler would surely keep wicket.

Big series for Cook. He needs to do something or the bell may be ringing on his test career.


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## Paperboy (May 15, 2018)

Feel sorry for Vince, did exactly what he was asked to do back in county cricket.


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## fundy (May 15, 2018)

Paperboy said:



			Feel sorry for Vince, did exactly what he was asked to do back in county cricket.
		
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a few eye catching 90s in the IPHell worth more than runs in county cricket. feels very much like another shuffling of the pack with little direction to me, Bairstow going to get more responsibility (and end up batting too high for a keeper) Malan gets shuffled up to 3 (not sure this is ideal either) whilst we stick with Cook at the top (surely once you choose to leave Vince out moving Cook to 3 and trying a new opening pair wouldve been a decent option?)

so few of them are playign regular red ball cricket its really hard to know what the make up of the batting should be in this changing era

barely seen any of Bess in red ball cricket but find it hard to believe hes closed to the finished article after 16 games most of them not as the first choice spinner, pretty hefty baptism against a side that play spin as well as most, what it does is show just how empty the spin bowling cupboard is (Leach/Crane neither close to established both injured and Ali picking up a payday in India)


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## Tongo (May 15, 2018)

The Buttler selection is same old, same old. Player A does well in one format so he must be brilliant in another format too. A few weeks back there was plenty of chat about red ball cricket and white ball cricket almost becoming two different sports. 

Dunno whether this is Ed Smith trying to look funky or just another case of plus ca change, plus ca meme chose. 

Not quite sure how the likes of Foakes and Burns dont get a look in either.


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## Tongo (May 15, 2018)

Meanwhile, fair play to Ireland for guttsing it out in their first test. Amir and Abbas are a decent duo, as England are going to find out. 

Would be interesting to see how Ireland would get on against the likes of Sri Lanka, West Indies and Zimbabwe on Irish soil.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 15, 2018)

Tongo said:



			Meanwhile, fair play to Ireland for guttsing it out in their first test. Amir and Abbas are a decent duo, as England are going to find out. 

Would be interesting to see how Ireland would get on against the likes of Sri Lanka, West Indies and Zimbabwe on Irish soil.
		
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I think Ireland will be very competitive against the sides you named. My concern will be how they will fare on the sub-continent in particular. A steep learning curve I fear in the away series but a very promising opening performance.


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## PieMan (May 16, 2018)

I would say the biggest concern for the selectors is the weather. If it's too hot then that could seriously affect the mental stability of the two volatile gingers!!!


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## Junior (May 16, 2018)

Doesn't say a lot for the county system when Buttler gets picked.  I'm not sure where to stand on this.  Obviously, Buttler is world class in white ball cricket, but do you give him a chance to make it at test cricket without earning his stripes on the county circuit ? FWIW I think he'll bat at 7 and Bairstowe will bat at 5.  Its a shame Ball missed out after his start to the season. 

Cook, Stoneman, Root, Malan, Bairstowe, Stokes, Buttler, Woakes, Broad, Bess, Anderson


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## Tongo (May 16, 2018)

Junior said:



			Doesn't say a lot for the county system when Buttler gets picked.  I'm not sure where to stand on this.  Obviously, Buttler is world class in white ball cricket, but do you give him a chance to make it at test cricket without earning his stripes on the county circuit ? FWIW I think he'll bat at 7 and Bairstowe will bat at 5.  Its a shame Ball missed out after his start to the season. 

Cook, Stoneman, Root, Malan, Bairstowe, Stokes, Buttler, Woakes, Broad, Bess, Anderson
		
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Carting sixes on decks prepared for big hitting is one thing but facing Amir and Abbas and the moving ball on english decks that will more than likely offer something for the bowlers is completely different. Pakistan will quite happily concede a few boundaries to Buttler if they get him out early. 

For me Foakes should have been picked instead of Buttler. But he's not playing in the IPL so doesnt get noticed.


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## Tongo (May 16, 2018)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I think Ireland will be very competitive against the sides you named. My concern will be how they will fare on the sub-continent in particular. A steep learning curve I fear in the away series but a very promising opening performance.
		
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Most non sub-continent teams struggle on the sub-continent. So Ireland wouldnt be alone on that front.


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## Junior (May 16, 2018)

Tongo said:



			Carting sixes on decks prepared for big hitting is one thing but facing Amir and Abbas and the moving ball on english decks that will more than likely offer something for the bowlers is completely different. Pakistan will quite happily concede a few boundaries to Buttler if they get him out early. 

For me Foakes should have been picked instead of Buttler. But he's not playing in the IPL so doesnt get noticed.
		
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I agree. Flat wickets, short boundaries and field restrictions do flatter IPL batsmen.  Fkes should have been given a go ahead of Buttler.  Esp given he did nothing wrong on tour in the winter.  He got some good runs in the warm up matches.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 16, 2018)

I donâ€™t tbink Buttler is a bad choice - couple years back he was brought in to bat at 7 and did a good job but then they went to Ali , I think he will do a good job and woild actually like to see Bairstow moved up and Buttler given the gloves


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## HomerJSimpson (May 16, 2018)

So will we beat the Aussies. I guess that's the burning question. If so, where do you see England being stronger and if not, why not?


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## fundy (May 16, 2018)

HomerJSimpson said:



			So will we beat the Aussies. I guess that's the burning question. If so, where do you see England being stronger and if not, why not?
		
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dont think i can think of a less anticipated series against the aussies, yet another endless odi series shoehorned into the fixture list to line the ECB coffers and compromising 2 cracking series against Pakistan and India and making them both shorter than ideal, against an aussie side missing 3 of their top order and in complete disarray


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## drewster (May 17, 2018)

I would have loved to see us take a huge plunge on Virdi from Surrey. He's started the season incredibly well and on seamer friendly tracks. It was never going to happen as it's not the English way of doing things. We will have to coach him a new action first !!!!  How Stoneman got in I'm not so sure, as many a wiser person than me has said â€¦."it's harder to get out of the England team than get in it"


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## Lord Tyrion (May 24, 2018)

Stoneman has gone early through the gate. Should a test opener really be getting bowled like that? As an opening batsman I expect them to get out caught behind, not in front of the wicket, or LBW. Getting bowled off the front foot is not good. 

Am I too old school in that view? Has the game moved on?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 24, 2018)

Youâ€™re right itâ€™s not good ,â€™itâ€™s not as if the ball did much as well , he really needs a big score in the next three innnings or he is done


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## Deleted member 18588 (May 24, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Stoneman has gone early through the gate. Should a test opener really be getting bowled like that? As an opening batsman I expect them to get out caught behind, not in front of the wicket, or LBW. Getting bowled off the front foot is not good. 

Am I too old school in that view? Has the game moved on?
		
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Could as easily ask if a Test No:3 (and Captain) should be chasing such a wide delivery. 

Whatever the answer it does appear that we are no nearer to solving our problems at the top of the order.


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## PieMan (May 24, 2018)

Continuation of the shambles that was Oz and NZ over the winter!


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## Liverpoolphil (May 24, 2018)

Some poor shots , some good bowling and great catching but England poor overall - going to be a fight to get anything out of this , the Pakistan bowlers have managed to get something from the pitch - Was Root right to bat ?


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## Tongo (May 24, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Some poor shots , some good bowling and great catching but England poor overall - going to be a fight to get anything out of this , the Pakistan bowlers have managed to get something from the pitch - Was Root right to bat ?
		
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If the ball moves an iota England's batsmen have no answer, if it spins an iota they have no answer. Little more than flat track bullies.


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## Deleted member 18588 (May 24, 2018)

Tongo said:



			If the ball moves an iota England's batsmen have no answer, if it spins an iota they have no answer. Little more than flat track bullies.
		
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Said it earlier today. Our batsmen put the bad ball away very well. 

Trouble is that they struggle against the good ball.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 25, 2018)

England test cricket - simply not good enough

Who do you blame? Discuss

For me the selection process seems flawed. Lots of good young players around the county scene with bat and ball not given a chance and if they are are discarded after a bad performance (reminiscent of the 80's policy). Why not start a rebuild (lots of players starting to get on) and give youth a chance and time to learn and develop on the test stage and in different conditions


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## Tongo (May 26, 2018)

HomerJSimpson said:



			England test cricket - simply not good enough

Who do you blame? Discuss

For me the selection process seems flawed. Lots of good young players around the county scene with bat and ball not given a chance and if they are are discarded after a bad performance (reminiscent of the 80's policy). Why not start a rebuild (lots of players starting to get on) and give youth a chance and time to learn and develop on the test stage and in different conditions
		
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The selectors have had decent options but have gone for the hollywood choices. So there's the likes of Burns, Gubbins and Hildreth with the bat and Ball, Woakes (very good in england) and even Overton with the ball. And Foakes should be in the overall mix as well. 

But they've gone for Buttler and Wood (never seems to produce but is loved cos of his pace) which for me is style over substance.


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## Deleted member 18588 (May 26, 2018)

Tongo said:



			The selectors have had decent options but have gone for the hollywood choices. So there's the likes of Burns, Gubbins and Hildreth with the bat and Ball, Woakes (very good in england) and even Overton with the ball. And Foakes should be in the overall mix as well. 

But they've gone for Buttler and Wood (never seems to produce but is loved cos of his pace) which for me is style over substance.
		
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The selectors have to be careful not to get back to the "next cab off the rank" syndrome.

Many were happy to see Stoneman and Malan given their chances but after 10 and 12 Tests it's beginning to look as though they may not be the answer and Wood flatters to deceive. 

But the questions has to be is County cricket producing sufficient potential Test cricketers?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 26, 2018)

Tongo said:



			The selectors have had decent options but have gone for the hollywood choices. So there's the likes of Burns, Gubbins and Hildreth with the bat and Ball, Woakes (very good in england) and even Overton with the ball. And Foakes should be in the overall mix as well. 

But they've gone for Buttler and Wood (never seems to produce but is loved cos of his pace) which for me is style over substance.
		
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Itâ€™s a disgrace that Hildreth has never been given a chance , would have had him in during this series at 3 and also donâ€™t see what Overton has done wrong to be left out , would have had him in instead of Wood. I think Buttler should be keeper to allow Bairstow to concentrate on batting. 

The opener is the trickey spot - no idea who should go there but for me the first thing they need to do is remove the captaincy from Root , it smack of Botham and giving him it because heâ€™s the best player, there is no reason why Cook shouldnâ€™t still be skipper


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## Lord Tyrion (May 26, 2018)

Cook shouldn't be captain because he was dull and uninspiring in that role. His time was up. However I agree with your assessment of Root and the captaincy.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 26, 2018)

Right now Cook is the obvious choice because no one else is standing out - Root is poor and itâ€™s affecting his batting right now and he canâ€™t win. Cook for someone who was â€œdull and uninspiringâ€ still managed to win plenty tests and big series wins. Itâ€™s poor at the moment and Root being captain is a big reason


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## Lord Tyrion (May 26, 2018)

Did they win because of his captaincy or despite it? At the end I would argue it was the latter. He had been a good captain but it catches up with players and his time had come.

Cook's form for the last 12 months has been poor and if alternative options had been there he would have been dropped. You can't have someone in that position as your captain, it becomes a distraction.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 26, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Did they win because of his captaincy or despite it? At the end I would argue it was the latter. He had been a good captain but it catches up with players and his time had come.

Cook's form for the last 12 months has been poor and if alternative options had been there he would have been dropped. You can't have someone in that position as your captain, it becomes a distraction.
		
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There is no one else with the experience or the ability to captain right now , Root clearly canâ€™t do it , Stokes has issues , both Anderson and Broad just arenâ€™t captain material and anyone else isnâ€™t a guaranteed spot so you need to sort something out soon. Cook will never get the credit he deserves as a captain - only Vaughan beats him for test wins I believe and the last poor series in India clouds a lot - statements like â€œwin despite his captaincyâ€ just sums up the lack of respect for him as a captain. His record shows that. A lot of Cooks issues right now are done to a lack of a solid partner and also a poor no 3. Unless you can nominate someone better then Cook should still be captain until they can find someone else


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## Deleted member 18588 (May 26, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Did they win because of his captaincy or despite it? At the end I would argue it was the latter. He had been a good captain but it catches up with players and his time had come.

Cook's form for the last 12 months has been poor and if alternative options had been there he would have been dropped. You can't have someone in that position as your captain, it becomes a distraction.
		
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Agree with you on this. I suspect that unless he has a stellar summer this season could be his last. Don't see him continuing in County cricket.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 26, 2018)

That was a superb partnership from Bess and Buttler - calm composed , picked the bad balls and also put away some good ball with some great shots , would be delighted to see them go on and prove a few wrong


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## Tongo (May 27, 2018)

Well that resistance failed to continue this morning. 

Bayliss looking even more out of depth in test cricket. Claims no-one else is pushing for selection despite the likes of Gubbins, Hildreth, Foakes and Pope making decent country runs. 

Beginning to look like the Ireland test was an ideal warm-up for Pakistan. Could be the destination of choice for many touring teams in the future if the usual warm-up games against the counties continue down the road of being pointless processions against largely second XI's.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 27, 2018)

How long can Bayliss keep his job. We're simply going backwards and we aren't good enough. Time to give some of the talented youngsters on the county scene a chance, for a number of games and not simply putting them in for one or two and then discarding them again. The coaching staff don't seem up to it and don't seem to be getting the most from the players. They themselves are under performing in the most part, and are far too inconsistent


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## Junior (May 27, 2018)

I feel for Root.  England should have just left him to be one of the best batsmen in the world.  He looked forlorn at the interview and just churned out media trained crappy answers......we need to show character etc etc. 

Gubbins for Stoneman for the next test (he should have played in this one, esp at his home ground).  

People also forget get how often Moeen dug us out of the mire last Summer against SA. Granted he had a poor winter and we need a frontline spinner.   We need to learn how to play test cricket and value our wicket when we bat.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 28, 2018)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/44277224

Jennings has been brought in for Stoneman , disappointed that Hildreath didnâ€™t come in for Malan but guess he has been given a bit longer.


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## Deleted member 18588 (May 28, 2018)

What did I say about a shortage of options for the selectors?

Drop Stoneman to bring back Jennings who, himself, had been replaced by........
Stoneman. 

Agreed Jennings has done well this season for Lancashire but it does highlight the lack of Test quality players coming through. 

As for Hildreth I agree that he should probably have been given a chance in the past but as he is now 33 I think that it's too late for him.


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## Tongo (May 28, 2018)

MetalMickie said:



			What did I say about a shortage of options for the selectors?

Drop Stoneman to bring back Jennings who, himself, had been replaced by........
Stoneman. 

Agreed Jennings has done well this season for Lancashire but it does highlight the lack of Test quality players coming through. 

As for Hildreth I agree that he should probably have been given a chance in the past but as he is now 33 I think that it's too late for him.
		
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Gubbins or Rory Burns would be viable alternatives. 

I dont see what the issue is with Hildreth being 33. England need some middle-order stability and he could fit the bill for the next couple of years.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 28, 2018)

Tongo said:



			Gubbins or Rory Burns would be viable alternatives. 

I dont see what the issue is with Hildreth being 33. England need some middle-order stability and he could fit the bill for the next couple of years.
		
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I agree as a short-middle term solution Hildreth could fit the bill, but is now not the time to start looking to build a new and settled squad. Many are getting on a bit and no-one is really in good nick. Root reminds me of Gower or Botham when they were captained and are shackled by the responsibility to the detriment of his own food


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## Liverpoolphil (May 28, 2018)

Tongo said:



			Gubbins or Rory Burns would be viable alternatives. 

I dont see what the issue is with Hildreth being 33. England need some middle-order stability and he could fit the bill for the next couple of years.
		
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Jennings has scored well as has Burns and along with Gubbins they should hopefully form the future partnership . 

Iâ€™m fully in agreement about Hildreth 

 But still the big issue as well is Root as skipper


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## Deleted member 18588 (May 28, 2018)

33 isn't too old for an established player but I can't see the point of introducing a player at that age.

Hardly building for the future.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 28, 2018)

MetalMickie said:



			33 isn't too old for an established player but I can't see the point of introducing a player at that age.

Hardly building for the future.
		
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Indeed which is what I'd like to see us do. I'd love to see a big overhaul and get a young and hungry central squad in and give them the next two-three years to learn how to play test cricket in different conditions and not simply chop and change as soon as any one payer has a poor game or two. It seems that too many that come into the side these days have the proverbial sword of Damocles over them and are so scared of failing and being dropped they are never allowed to fully express themselves and perform to their true potential


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## patricks148 (May 29, 2018)

I like Vaughn idea of dropping Broad and Anderson, no idea who would replace them though??


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## Karl102 (May 29, 2018)

Interesting listening to Alan Donald tonight on Sky. He said he has seen seen some talent this year, is it Henry fro Kent?
IMO itâ€™s a huge risk dropping one of those 2. There are consistent performers and whilst the top order is unstable, you don5 want to rock 2 boats just yet.
Hildreth has been banging on the door for a while now and deserves a shot instead on Malan. 
If the ball is hooping around early doors I worry about Jennings!


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## drewster (May 30, 2018)

Henry from Kent is a Kiwi and their overseas player I believe.  England badly need a left armer . I thought Mark Footitt was going to be the man but his move to SUrrey seems to have set him back big style. Maybe now he's out of there he might get back to where he was ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2018)

Well thatâ€™s a better day , some superb bowling from England especially Broads first spell and then Anderson after lunch 

England have made a nice solid start , Jennings and Cook made a good start and Root playing sensibly so far - hopefully a nice lead tomorrow


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## Tongo (Jun 2, 2018)

Fair play to Broad for his comments about Vaughan. 

Vaughan is Boycott for the clickbait generation when it comes to punditry, loves the sound of his own voice and spouts guff on an almost daily basis.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 2, 2018)

Solid day from England and building a decent enough lead. Couple of fine shots from Curran at the end and I hope he can survive the first few overs tomorrow and make a decent score. The ball seemed to do a bit and that should give the England bowlers encouragement


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## Beezerk (Jun 3, 2018)

Tongo said:



			Fair play to Broad for his comments about Vaughan. 

Vaughan is Boycott for the clickbait generation when it comes to punditry, loves the sound of his own voice and spouts guff on an almost daily basis.
		
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He said what had to be said IMO, some English bowlers have been in cruise mode for some time and needed a kick up the backside.


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## Karl102 (Jun 3, 2018)

Just as I was about to say Ball should play for Curran, he gets a wicket..... anybody seen Coad from Yorkshire? He has a few wickets this year. In my head I am also thinking are Ball and Broad too similar?!? 
I can see Currans appeal with him being a leftie, but I also honk he need to bowl with a newer ball (as he does for Surrey) if you are going to utilise this...
I also think Moeen has been harshly done by and deserves a place above Bess who has potential, but Moeen (their s Winter aside) has been very good...


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 3, 2018)

A far better performance but it's the same old story. Play well one game and then have a disaster next. We need to find a way to a level of consistency and stay in games. Reasonable performance by Bess and Curran but will they stay part of the scene or like so many others before, in for a couple of games and then left out and forgotten


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## Tongo (Jun 4, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			He said what had to be said IMO, some English bowlers have been in cruise mode for some time and needed a kick up the backside.
		
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Seemed a bit churlish after the abject failure of the batsmen at Lord's to focus on the bowlers though.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 4, 2018)

Being slightly cynical Vaughan's comments got him plenty of column inches and noise. It made him stand out amongst the other cricket pundits. In this modern era of social media that was job done.

I'm not a fan of his but I also find Broad infuriating as he frequently will bowl too short throughout an innings and effectively be of no use to the team. He will then follow that with a great display. How can a pro of his skill and experience still have to be carried so frequently?

Anyway, the rot has stopped and we now have a bizarre sequence of one day matches where test matches should really be.


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## Junior (Jun 4, 2018)

Lots of the pundits are clickbait these days.  I don't mind them saying what they think but I think they have quickly forgotton how the media used to prey on them when they were players.   Botham, Willis, Vaughn, Boycott are terrible for it.  However, Atherton, Hussain Butcher, Gower and Rob Key are really good.    

It's a shame Pakistan folded.  Didn't really show any fight or application like at Lords.  Especially the way they got out to Bess in the 2nd innings.  

I think this team is a long way from the finished article.  Butler has played really well , although im sure the knives would have been sharpened had he been caught when on 4.  It's the top order not pushing on which is again the big worry.   

Loads of ODI's now, shame the next test isn't until August.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 26, 2018)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/cricket/44966161

Good old England selectors once again not having the Balls to be brave

Going back to Ali , bringing in Rashid who doesnâ€™t play Red ball cricket 

And ignoring once again the clearly in form Hildreath and both Bess and Leach not picked 

Maybe they should move county because I suspect the selectors canâ€™t get to Somerset 

The continual ignoring of players not based at the highligh counties is a disgrace


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## Junior (Jul 26, 2018)

No surprise about Leach as he's returning from injury and only bowled 30 odd overs since May.  The conundrum is Bess, who really did nothing wrong in the last series , but, he's not exactly set the world on fire in Country Cricket.  However,  Rashid hasn't even played county cricket.  

Pleased for Porter.  I hope he gets the nod above Curran as I think he's a better bowler and Broad is struggling with injury still.  

Ali is the safe bet to start........  He was man of the series against a strong SA side last Summer, he just had a poor tour of OZ and NZ.


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## Dan2501 (Jul 26, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/cricket/44966161

Good old England selectors once again not having the Balls to be brave

Going back to Ali , bringing in Rashid who doesnâ€™t play Red ball cricket
		
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I'd argue that bringing in Rashid is very brave. Don't agree with it, but it's a ballsy move.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 26, 2018)

It makes a complete mockery of the County game when England call up a player who doesnâ€™t even have a red ball contract and has not bowled a single over of red ball cricket over the past 12 months - itâ€™s a right kick in the guts for guys who are out there bowling week in week out - itâ€™s a joke. 

They cite both Bess and Leach not bowling a great amount of overs since May - well maybe thatâ€™s because the T20 started up so the county champ games have been thin on the ground and they have both bowled a damn sight more red ball than Rashid - 

And thatâ€™s before overlooking Hildreath once again

Clearly play for the wrong County


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## Karl102 (Jul 26, 2018)

The Indians will muller Rashid! No consistency or accuracy. They have papped their pants athe he Indian wrist spinners and thought we have to have one. Watch them attack Rashid. 

Do you think Hildreth is harshly done by because he bats on the riad at Taunton?!? I think personally he deserves a chance. I do not think Malan has what it takes. Glad they have picked Jennings as he is in form.


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## drewster (Jul 27, 2018)

Junior said:



			No surprise about Leach as he's returning from injury and only bowled 30 odd overs since May.  The conundrum is Bess, who really did nothing wrong in the last series , but, he's not exactly set the world on fire in Country Cricket.  However,  Rashid hasn't even played county cricket.  

Pleased for Porter.  I hope he gets the nod above Curran as I think he's a better bowler and Broad is struggling with injury still.  

Ali is the safe bet to start........  He was man of the series against a strong SA side last Summer, he just had a poor tour of OZ and NZ.
		
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Delighted Jamie Porter has been picked but he has to play or there's no point. He's proved all he can in County Cricket , been in the A Team etc. There's no point letting him ride the pine, get him in there and see if he can translate the brilliant last two years onto the main stage against some of the highest calibre batters.

With regards to Adil Rashid, I haven't got a problem with it at all. He was available for selection and he was selected. Not sure why he personally is getting so much grief. Give the selectors an earful if you want ?!!   He said he's not playing red ball cricket for Yorkshire not retiring from red ball cricket full stop.


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## Piece (Jul 27, 2018)

The funny thing for me with Rashid is that he should never have been dropped in the first place. Like a lot of cricketers, he has been built up and then messed around. I'm glad he's back but he'll be expected to turn the ball sideways and skill them out. If he doesn't, he'll be back to white ball asap. I do hope he wasn't selected because of that one ball to Kohli....


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2018)

Karl102 said:



			The Indians will muller Rashid! No consistency or accuracy. They have papped their pants athe he Indian wrist spinners and thought we have to have one. Watch them attack Rashid. 

Do you think Hildreth is harshly done by because he bats on the riad at Taunton?!? I think personally he deserves a chance. I do not think Malan has what it takes. Glad they have picked Jennings as he is in form.
		
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I have believed for years that the selectors will look at players harshly when they are at certain counties and especially ones that donâ€™t play at test grounds 

Sometimes they also persist with certain players yet dump others quick as a flash and some just never even get a chance 

We have had a lot of players at Somerset that should have been given a chance for England at both red and white ball cricket 

Peter Trego is a player who has been superb at white ball cricket - not a sniff

Hildreth should have been included years ago at both red and white ball - he has been performing consistently for over a decade

Craig Overton - played well during a poor tour for England , seems to have been discarded , I donâ€™t expect England to go back to Leach who they ignored and nearly ruined for ages , same with Bess 

I have no doubt that if any of those players were at Surrey or Yorkshire then they would be in the squad 

Rashid shouldnâ€™t be near it - last week he was asked by his county to play a 4 day red ball game for them - he said no. They have reacted to a decent white ball spell and one ball . I expect the Indians are going to eat him alive. Not sure about Porter and if he can produce the same against a higher calibre of players - certainly deserves his chance , Malan just isnâ€™t good enough


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## Karl102 (Jul 27, 2018)

Interestingly Lyth being interviewed on Sky just said Jamie Overton is the quickest on the county circuit this year....


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2018)

Karl102 said:



			Interestingly Lyth being interviewed on Sky just said Jamie Overton is the quickest on the county circuit this year....
		
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Yeah Jamie was always going to be the quicker of the two and certainly got the ability to be a consistent 90mph plus bowler but does give away a few too many runs - if he can learn to control a bit more than he will be a very dangerous bowler


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 27, 2018)

If Rashid is doing what the other spinners aren't. then its hardly his fault he has been picked. Personally I'm glad to see him given another chance to prove himself with the test ball.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2018)

Bunkermagnet said:



			If Rashid is doing what the other spinners aren't. then its hardly his fault he has been picked. Personally I'm glad to see him given another chance to prove himself with the test ball.
		
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The other spinners are playing red ball cricket for their county and also not turning down their own county when asked - if thatâ€™s whatâ€™s needed then I guess people might as well not play county cricket

No one can judge what Rashid is doing with a red ball when he doesnâ€™t play red ball cricket


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 27, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The other spinners are playing red ball cricket for their county and also not turning down their own county when asked - if thatâ€™s whatâ€™s needed then I guess people might as well not play county cricket
		
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Yes Rashid asked to not play red ball county cricket, but the national selectors have picked him....not him or his family. Are you seriously saying he should say no to his country so as not to upset his county?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2018)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Yes Rashid asked to not play red ball county cricket, but the national selectors have picked him....not him or his family. Are you seriously saying he should say no to his country so as not to upset his county?
		
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He shouldnâ€™t have been selected and yes when he was asked he should have been the same answer when asked by his own county - im concentrating on white ball cricket.

But itâ€™s just the latest in a line of baffling selections from Ed Smith.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 27, 2018)

Look at the ground conditions. What top spinners do we really have right now? (that are taking wickets and aren't injured)


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2018)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Look at the ground conditions. What top spinners do we really have right now? (that are taking wickets and aren't injured)
		
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You go with either Leach or Bess with Bess prob being the person that deserves to keep his place but Leach is the better spinner

Rashid isnâ€™t a top spinner with the red ball , couldnâ€™t tie down an end , bowled too many boundary balls and just wasnâ€™t dangerous enough. He will get wickets in white ball when he can take advantage of batters taking a bit more risks - in red ball a batsmen can just wait for the poor ball


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 28, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You go with either Leach or Bess with Bess prob being the person that deserves to keep his place but Leach is the better spinner

Rashid isnâ€™t a top spinner with the red ball , couldnâ€™t tie down an end , bowled too many boundary balls and just wasnâ€™t dangerous enough. He will get wickets in white ball when he can take advantage of batters taking a bit more risks - in red ball a batsmen can just wait for the poor ball
		
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But sadly neither Leach nor Bess have been consistently taking wickets this season. 

This sorry episode highlights the continuing dearth of quality spin bowlers in the English game. 

The same can be said for genuine pace. Porter merits being given a chance but he is just another 80+ man.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 28, 2018)

MetalMickie said:



			But sadly neither Leach nor Bess have been consistently taking wickets this season. 

This sorry episode highlights the continuing dearth of quality spin bowlers in the English game. 

The same can be said for genuine pace. Porter merits being given a chance but he is just another 80+ man.
		
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Itâ€™s hard to when they stop the county championship for so long whilst they play T20 and ODI - think they must have had one game since the last test that Bess played 

As for pace - J Overton is one that who can genuinely get over 90mph regularly


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 28, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Itâ€™s hard to when they stop the county championship for so long whilst they play T20 and ODI - think they must have had one game since the last test that Bess played 

As for pace - J Overton is one that who can genuinely get over 90mph regularly
		
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Leach should certainly be given  an extended run by England 

Bess I am not yet convinced by.In his Test outings he looked gutsy but was more impressive with the bat than the ball.

Bit of hyperbole on your part regarding Overton. Certainly he bowls regularly in the high 80's and occasionally higher but not consistent 90+

In any event he is one of a group of young quicks being kept under scrutiny for the future and whichever of those they choose to go with I hope that they are given a decent chance to prove themselves


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 29, 2018)

What does everyone think the result will be. I can see England putting in some big performances and if there are swing friendly conditions really getting into the Indian batting. I think this has the making of a really exciting test series and will be a good measure against the number one nation to see where England are


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## patricks148 (Jul 30, 2018)

was thinking isn't it a bit late in the season for a 5 test series?


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## drewster (Jul 31, 2018)

So Rashid plays tomorrow which I feel is good news but somehow Sam Curran has the nod over Jamie Porter ffs. It'll be interesting to compare this team to that for the last match of the series.  I can't see Broad and Anderson making it through 5 matches in quick succession, Stokes could be in prison and Malan , Rashid and Curran could be dropped.    
Team for tomorrow is:
Joe Root (capt), James Anderson, Jonny Bairstow (wk), Stuart Broad, Jos Buttler, Alastair Cook, Sam Curran, Keaton Jennings, Dawid Malan, Adil Rashid, Ben Stokes


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## Dan2501 (Aug 1, 2018)

Jennings gets away with one early. Awful shot against a bowler who almost entirely bowls across the left hander. India's slip catching continues to disappoint.


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## Piece (Aug 1, 2018)

Still not a fan of Jennings. He's not really improved since last time. He's a get out in the 20s and 30s man. Hope I'm proved wrong


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## Dan2501 (Aug 2, 2018)

India collapsing even worse than England. Kohli's still in but doesn't seem to know which way the ball is moving.

If Jennings continues to play towards mid-on he's not going to last the series, Ishant could pick him up easily every time.


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## IanM (Aug 2, 2018)

all sorts going on...dull old Test Cricket eh?


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## Dan2501 (Aug 2, 2018)

Just a shame Malan couldn't catch a cold. Dropped Kohli twice.


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## Captainron (Aug 3, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			Just a shame Malan couldn't catch a cold. Dropped Kohli twice.
		
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In a way, I'm glad he did. If Kohli had gone for very little the game would be a procession. This way it might remain a decent contest. 

Cook must be wondering why he is getting an unplayable ball off Ashwin everytime he's gone out there.


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## Junior (Aug 3, 2018)

Captainron said:



			In a way, I'm glad he did. If Kohli had gone for very little the game would be a procession. This way it might remain a decent contest. 

Cook must be wondering why he is getting an unplayable ball off Ashwin everytime he's gone out there.
		
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The LBW that we didnt refer when he was on 20 was just as bed. 

Sadly, I see Ashwin going through our left handers like a dose.  He'll get 7/60 and India will win comfortably.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 3, 2018)

I've seen enough of Keaton Jennings already this summer.


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## Mudball (Aug 3, 2018)

Fab inning by Kohli.   Watched him go from 90-100 with his heart in his mouth when he was non striker and 97 when the last man walked in.  Then saw him blitz to 149..  Amazing.. was watching this in a restaurant in Mumbai.  No idea what I ate or who paid the bill.  Everyone glued to the telly.   

Cook's 2nd inning was replay of the 1st..   Cant blame him, pretty much unplayable.


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## Piece (Aug 3, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			I've seen enough of Keaton Jennings already this summer.
		
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Malan is old Jennings, part II.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 3, 2018)

Sam Curran might as well open at this point.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 3, 2018)

Another second innings collapse. Bowlers have just about given us a chance of a win. Not convinced by the current England line up and Malan in particular


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## Lazkir (Aug 4, 2018)

Walked it.


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## Junior (Aug 4, 2018)

Glad to be proved wrong.  Bowling looked strong in this test.  No weaknesses on that front.  The batting however.......

They'll probably give Malian another crack given the next game is on his home ground.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 4, 2018)

Junior said:



			Glad to be proved wrong.  Bowling looked strong in this test.  No weaknesses on that front.  The batting however.......

They'll probably give Malian another crack given the next game is on his home ground.
		
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Malan is the first weak spot that needs to be looked at - really wish they would give Hildreath a go , I know he has prob only got 3/4 years left but Aussies brought in Rodgers late 

If not Hildreath ( he isnâ€™t going to get it ) then Iâ€™m not sure - maybe Pope ? 

And Jennings needs a good test with Burns continuing to play well


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## Dan2501 (Aug 4, 2018)

Jennings out for Burns.
Malan out for Hildreth.

Not normally a fan of changing a winning team but neither of those two are good enough.


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## Captainron (Aug 7, 2018)

Pope has been picked for the squad at Lords. Tremendous first class record for such a young lad. Hope he gets runs


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2018)

Captainron said:



			Pope has been picked for the squad at Lords. Tremendous first class record for such a young lad. Hope he gets runs
		
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Itâ€™s a record at 5/6 though but Malan needed to be taken out of the limelight - still think Hildreath should have come in for the summer and get a couple of years out of him whilst giving someone like Pope a bit more time. But good luck to him


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 7, 2018)

Captainron said:



			Pope has been picked for the squad at Lords. Tremendous first class record for such a young lad. Hope he gets runs
		
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Me too. A real talent and I hope he's given time and not one of these players thrown in a for a game or two, struggles and is dumped.


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## Mudball (Aug 8, 2018)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Me too. A real talent and I hope he's given time and not one of these players thrown in a for a game or two, struggles and is dumped.
		
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+1 we are getting thru some good quality talent very quickly. What happened to the Hameed guy who batted against India in India after breaking his thumb?? In that series he was scoring more than Cook. 

Speaking of Cook, how long will he be picked on fame than form. (He is long overdue a century or two against India)


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## Paperboy (Aug 8, 2018)

Mudball said:



			+1 we are getting thru some good quality talent very quickly. What happened to the Hameed guy who batted against India in India after breaking his thumb?? In that series he was scoring more than Cook.)
		
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Struggling for form since returning from that injury.

he even played club cricket, still struggling.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 8, 2018)

Think we're going to have to dump Rashid for Moeen otherwise we could be dangerously short on batting. Hoping we line-up:

Cook
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Pope
Buttler
Moeen
Curran
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

We probably won't though, going to end up with Curran or Woakes at 7.


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## Mudball (Aug 8, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			Think we're going to have to dump Rashid for Moeen otherwise we could be dangerously short on batting. Hoping we line-up:

Cook
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Pope
Buttler
Moeen
Curran
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

We probably won't though, going to end up with Curran or Woakes at 7.
		
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Curran should open    Just mess with the Indians..


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 10, 2018)

Ben who?


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## Captainron (Aug 12, 2018)

Root is just too negative a captain. Why the hell did he bat on this morning? Shocking decision. 

Should have gone with Anderson and Curran from 11am this morning as they both swing the ball. Broad and Woakes after 12/14 overs.


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## patricks148 (Aug 12, 2018)

Captainron said:



			Root is just too negative a captain. Why the hell did he bat on this morning? Shocking decision. 

Should have gone with Anderson and Curran from 11am this morning as they both swing the ball. Broad and Woakes after 12/14 overs.
		
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lucky its not Cook still, he would have still been batting Monday afternoon:rofl:


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 12, 2018)

I've been away for both tests so am following it via BBC sport. It seems like another classic series where the home team excels in their conditions, the away team flounders. Jimmy has the ball dancing but will go away this winter and it won't move. I'm not sure that cricket this way can keep interest going as it lacks unpredictability. 

Maybe the rest of the series will prove me wrong.


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## Pathetic Shark (Aug 12, 2018)

Number of times England have made a wrong decision over when to declare - about 1 in a 100.
Number of people who bitch incessantly on the BBC website about waiting to declare too long - about 99 in 100.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 12, 2018)

Captainron said:



			Root is just too negative a captain. Why the hell did he bat on this morning? Shocking decision. 

Should have gone with Anderson and Curran from 11am this morning as they both swing the ball. Broad and Woakes after 12/14 overs.
		
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The only flaw with  that is Woakes swings it more than Curran, particularly at Lord's.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 12, 2018)

Another impressive win - some world class swing bowler from all four bowlers , wonder who England will play in Stokes is available , think Curran could be the one to miss out


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## IanM (Aug 12, 2018)

Captainron said:



			Root is just too negative a captain. Why the hell did he bat on this morning? Shocking decision. 

Should have gone with Anderson and Curran from 11am this morning as they both swing the ball. Broad and Woakes after 12/14 overs.
		
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Heck, youâ€™re a tough critic 

Always going to have a wack for 30-45 mins this morning. Old tactic... get the Indians all out there with their kit on, make them run around in the drizzle!  Let the batters see the balls swing and seam... Mess with their heads and turn the screw.

Spot on in my view...and so it was.  Game of golf for them tomorrow.  Smashing job


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## Captainron (Aug 12, 2018)

IanM said:



			Heck, youâ€™re a tough critic 

Always going to have a wack for 30-45 mins this morning. Old tactic... get the Indians all out there with their kit on, make them run around in the drizzle!  Let the batters see the balls swing and seam... Mess with their heads and turn the screw.

Spot on in my view...and so it was.  Game of golf for them tomorrow.  Smashing job
		
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Rain was the unknown. They wasted 40 minutes faffing around when they should have been bowling at the Indians. Kohli was injured and they gave him more time to get treatment and he was able to bat a bit more freely than he would have earlier on. When you have a chance to win the game you take it. Game was won yes but what if the rain had shunted down for a few hours. Would have been back tomorrow and who knows what could have happened. I still stick by my assertion that Root is far too negative and reactive.


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## User2021 (Aug 12, 2018)

Captainron said:



			Rain was the unknown. They wasted 40 minutes faffing around when they should have been bowling at the Indians. Kohli was injured and they gave him more time to get treatment and he was able to bat a bit more freely than he would have earlier on. When you have a chance to win the game you take it. Game was won yes but what if the rain had shunted down for a few hours. Would have been back tomorrow and who knows what could have happened. I still stick by my assertion that Root is far too negative and reactive.
		
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Agree, always think Cook and Root are far too negative Captainâ€™s


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## Beezerk (Aug 12, 2018)

jobr1850 said:



			Agree, always think Cook and Root are far too negative Captainâ€™s
		
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The team seemed over obsessed with getting Broad his 5 wicket haul than winning the game at one point.
It's the cutthroat edge we seem to lack at times, just not clinical enough. Saying that we're 2-0 up against the top ranked test team despite the awful top order we have.


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## Mudball (Aug 13, 2018)

Good game..
The Indians must be thinking that the Weather Gods are the 12 man.     Awful batting conditions on Day 2 when they batted, Serene pitch when England came out and the back to bad conditions when they came out again. 

Cant help but feel for Kohli.  Done his back lifting this team.  Nothing going his way.   All he needs one of the top order to fire.   I thought they could have declared overnight given the weather forecast, but in the end good decision.  

Test cricket is alive...  Also realised that I can play TMS rather than listening to Sky.   So TV on mute when Agners in on.


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## Junior (Aug 13, 2018)

Great result.....we got the luck of the toss and had the best conditions.  India picking two spinners was crazy.  Easy to forget Woakes and Bairstowe dug us out of a hole.  Top 4 need to contribute.


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## Mudball (Aug 13, 2018)

All that noise about Rashid's inclusion.. 






... So India effectively lost to a 10 man team..


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## Dan2501 (Aug 13, 2018)

Last man to fail to contribute in a Test was Gareth Batty in the first home Test against Bangladesh in 2005. Two visiting teams of very similar standard.


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## patricks148 (Aug 14, 2018)

most of the Indian batting line up are flat track bullies, it was the same last time they came TBH.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 14, 2018)

Well Stokes has been found not guilty so will be available for the next test - so who misses out - Curran I suspect.


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## Kellfire (Aug 14, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well Stokes has been found not guilty so will be available for the next test - so who misses out - Curran I suspect.
		
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He still has the investigation from the cricket authorities to go. Will they select him even if that hasn't been carried out?

Absolute joke of a decision though.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 14, 2018)

They've already picked and announced the squad - Stokes isn't in it. Might end up coming back for the 4th.


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## SaintHacker (Aug 14, 2018)

Kellfire said:



			Absolute joke of a decision though.
		
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Why is it? None of us have seen all the other evidence thats been put before the jury.


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## Kellfire (Aug 14, 2018)

SaintHacker said:



			Why is it? None of us have seen all the other evidence thats been put before the jury.
		
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The video evidence is damning and I know a solicitor who is amazed that his defence was successful.


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## SaintHacker (Aug 14, 2018)

Kellfire said:



			The video evidence is damning and I know a solicitor who is amazed that his defence was successful.
		
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Clearly not that damning that a 12 person jury unanimously found him not guilty!


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## Kellfire (Aug 14, 2018)

SaintHacker said:



			Clearly not that damning that a 12 person jury unanimously found him not guilty!
		
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Yep, it's sad that they have been so weak and that the prosecution have done such a terrible job.


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## GB72 (Aug 14, 2018)

The case had been wrecked before it started, the two men who Stokes was either insulting or defending could not give evidence as they had decided to sell their stories to the Sun. As such, all of the evidence given by both sides was pretty much 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Bearing that in mind, there is no way that you can convict beyond reasonable doubt and the not guilty verdict was almost inevitable. Surprised the CPS actually took it to trial on that basis and suspect a lesser name would have had the charges dropped long before.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 14, 2018)

Amazed he got off given the CCTV footage. Hopefully the ECB will find him guilty of bringing the game into disrepute and suspend him for a while to at least teach him some sort of lesson. There's also talk now that him missing The Ashes could be his 5-match suspension punishment back-dated, which would be a joke.


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## SaintHacker (Aug 14, 2018)

Kellfire said:



			Yep, it's sad that they have been so weak and that the prosecution have done such a terrible job.
		
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Whats sad is that you're willing to convict someone on the basis of a grainy cctc video and a media witchhunt with absolutely no knowledge of what went on before the incident.


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## Kellfire (Aug 14, 2018)

SaintHacker said:



			Whats sad is that you're willing to convict someone on the basis of a grainy cctc video and a media witchhunt with absolutely no knowledge of what went on before the incident.
		
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I don't need to know the full details of what went on before to know that he went so far beyond self defence that he was, in my opinion, clearly guilty of affray at a bare minimum. 

Sadly, it's a fact that it's harder to prosecute than it is to defend.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 14, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			Amazed he got off given the CCTV footage. Hopefully the ECB will find him guilty of bringing the game into disrepute and suspend him for a while to at least teach him some sort of lesson. There's also talk now that him missing The Ashes could be his 5-match suspension punishment back-dated, which would be a joke.
		
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He has already missed two tours because of it but has now been found not guilty by the court of law , that should be the end of it now - but appears people still want a bit of flesh


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## SaintHacker (Aug 14, 2018)

Kellfire said:



			I don't need to know the full details of what went on before to know that he went so far beyond self defence that he was, in my opinion, clearly guilty of affray at a bare minimum. 

Sadly, it's a fact that it's harder to prosecute than it is to defend.
		
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What if the other guy had a blade in his back pocket. Did he still go too far then? You don't have the full facts, therefore your opinion is irrelevant.


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## GB72 (Aug 14, 2018)

SaintHacker said:



			What if the other guy had a blade in his back pocket. Did he still go too far then? You don't have the full facts, therefore your opinion is irrelevant.
		
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This is the problem with the case as a whole. You had 2 parties both giving polar opposite views of the evening events and, of course, 2 barristers looking to make one side sound guilty and the other innocent. There were, by the sounds of it, 2 people who could have filled in the gaps who could not give evidence. As such, you have 2 opposite views, very little in the way of corroboration for either side and a requirement to prove guilt beyond all reasonable doubt. Was only ever going to end one way and should never have reached trial. 
Bearing in mind that you get dozens of similar incidents every weekend on high streets up and down the country every weekend which are addressed with cautions and similar, you do have to ask whether the CPS prosecuted this based purely on the level of press coverage.


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## IanM (Aug 14, 2018)

I played schools/county 2nds (the latter very briefly!) cricket in the early 80s.  But I came through the system with some guys who made it.   I was out a few times when some "local lad" faniced having a "go" at an England player.   Sometimes they got what they asked for.  No camera phones/CCTV in those days!  

As for this case, no idea what went on, I wasnt there.  Jury said Not Guilty, therefore any cricket enquiry surely has to accept that verdict.


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## Beezerk (Aug 14, 2018)

Got to say Iâ€™m hugely shocked he got off with it, itâ€™s ok swinging a drunken haymaker but this looked to be a prolonged assault. He goes after the lads numerous times, trying to knock their heads off their shoulders. Knife in his back pocket lol maybe the other fella got off as he thought Stokes had a bazooka in his pants ðŸ˜‚


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## Dan2501 (Aug 14, 2018)

The bloke was backing away with his hands up and Stokes absolutely leathered him, knocking him out cold onto concrete. He could have killed him. Could possibly see the POV that it was self defence initially, when Ali had the bottle in his hand, but at the point he knocked out Hale the fight was over and Hale was clearly not looking to fight. I struggle to side with Stokes on this one.


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## Beezerk (Aug 14, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			The bloke was backing away with his hands up and Stokes absolutely leathered him, knocking him out cold onto concrete. He could have killed him. Could possibly see the POV that it was self defence initially, when Ali had the bottle in his hand, but at the point he knocked out Hale the fight was over and Hale was clearly not looking to fight. I struggle to side with Stokes on this one.
		
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100%
The word on the street up here is Stokes is a really bad egg off the field, specially when heâ€™s had a few shandies. Heâ€™s a very lucky lad.


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## GB72 (Aug 14, 2018)

Seems the CPS tried to change the charges to a lesser ones of assault occasioning ABH on day one of the trial. They knew they were on to a loser before it even started.


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## TheDiablo (Aug 14, 2018)

Kellfire said:



			I don't need to know the full details of what went on before to know that he went so far beyond self defence that he was, in my opinion, clearly guilty of affray at a bare minimum. 
*
Sadly, it's a fact that it's harder to prosecute than it is to defend.*

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Wow. You want defendants to have to prove innocence more than the prosecution provide evidence of guilt? I'm really not sure what to make of that.

You can have an opinion on the outcome but in reality you know nothing other than through the eyes of the press. 

I'm sat with 200+ lawyers right now and the overwhelming consensus is the complete opposite to yours. The CPS are crazy for even bringing it to court.

As for the ECB enquiry, I think they'll ban him for the rest of summer. Made much easier for them with England 2-0 up.


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## Kellfire (Aug 14, 2018)

TheDiablo said:



			You want defendants to have to prove innocence more than the prosecution provide evidence of guilt?
		
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I didn't say that so your faux-shock is moot.

What I mean is that it's more difficult to gain a successful prosecution than it is to gain a successful defence, ie. most crimes are NOT met with a guilty verdict.


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## TheDiablo (Aug 14, 2018)

Kellfire said:



			I didn't say that so your faux-shock is moot.

What I mean is that it's more difficult to gain a successful prosecution than it is to gain a successful defence, ie. most crimes are NOT met with a guilty verdict.
		
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The only way to change that is to burden the defence with proving innocence. So again, not really sure what to make of that comment.


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## Scoobiesnax (Aug 14, 2018)

Stokes just been added to the test squad for the 3rd test!


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## Junior (Aug 14, 2018)

Stokes for Curran, Stokes for Buttler, or, given the lack of action he got, Stokes for Rashid ?????  

Personally, Stokes for Curran for me.  I always like to have a spinner in the team just in case.


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## Kellfire (Aug 14, 2018)

TheDiablo said:



			The only way to change that is to burden the defence with proving innocence. So again, not really sure what to make of that comment.
		
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So basically, you agree with me that most crimes go unpunished, but you have an issue with me pointing that out?

Baffling.


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## Junior (Aug 14, 2018)

The thing for me that seems to have gone unnoticed is Alex Hales booting the guy in the head when he was on the ground.  I'm glad its over now.   How its taken almost a year to sort out a drunken brawl,  something that happens up and down the country every Friday and Saturday night, is beyond me.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 14, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			They've already picked and announced the squad - Stokes isn't in it. Might end up coming back for the 4th.
		
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Stokes been added to the squad which I suspect was always going to happen if he was cleared - time to move on now , Curran I think will be the one to miss out


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## GB72 (Aug 14, 2018)

Kellfire said:



			So basically, you agree with me that most crimes go unpunished, but you have an issue with me pointing that out?

Baffling.
		
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What you have is a far more complex and much debated point here. Most modern societies have adopted the approach that it better to fail to convict the guilty than it is to wrongly convict the innocent. That is why we maintain the strong burden of proof in criminal trials as opposed to the lesser â€˜on the balance of probabilitiesâ€™ approach in civil trials. On that basis, it would appear in your mind that it is less heinous to convict somebody for something that they may not have done than to risk not convicting a potentially guilty person. 
That said, it remains the common man who decides who is guilty and who is not based on our system of being tried by our peers. You will get perverse decisions whereby a jury will not convict someone who is clearly guilty based on the fact that their actions were seen to be in the public good.
Basically, there is no easy answer. Our system is not as one sided as that in America where the type of representation that you can afford hugely influences the outcome of a trial as we have excellent criminal prosecutors and defenders working under the legal aid system. 
What I always remember is that it is far easier to prove that someone did something than for someone to prove that they did not as it is very hard to prove a negative and so I think the system is pretty much fair.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 14, 2018)

Junior said:



			The thing for me that seems to have gone unnoticed is Alex Hales booting the guy in the head when he was on the ground.  I'm glad its over now.   How its taken almost a year to sort out a drunken brawl,  something that happens up and down the country every Friday and Saturday night, is beyond me.
		
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Interestingly Hales booting the bloke in the head was mentioned by Stokes' defence in their closing statement as something that should be looked into as it may have been Hales that caused the injuries to Ali. That'll be a fun conversation point next time they're in an England squad together.


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## TheDiablo (Aug 14, 2018)

Kellfire said:



			So basically, you agree with me that most crimes go unpunished, but you have an issue with me pointing that out?

Baffling.
		
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Ah, so a preference for defendants to prove innocence is coupled with an inability to read. Adds up a bit more now. 

I think you're looking for the Daily Mail Comments section. You'll slot right in there.


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## Kellfire (Aug 14, 2018)

TheDiablo said:



			Ah, so a preference for defendants to prove innocence is coupled with an inability to read. Adds up a bit more now. 

I think you're looking for the Daily Mail Comments section. You'll slot right in there.
		
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You're the one demonstrating an inability to read, most specifically that you're inferring that I am suggesting the burden of proof be changed when all I actually did was state that "it's sad" that it's so difficult to prosecute a crime. 

I offered no alternative solution and did not say I feel it should be guilty until proven innocent.

Daily Mail? Don't be a plum. I'm as much of a snowflake as it's possible to be. I don't take that hate rag seriously at all.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 17, 2018)

Been confirmed that Stokes will replace Curran on Saturday.


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## Tongo (Aug 17, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			Been confirmed that Stokes will replace Curran on Saturday.
		
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Should have dropped Buttler. But that's one of Ed Smith's whacky new picks so was never going to happen.


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## patricks148 (Aug 17, 2018)

Tongo said:



			Should have dropped Buttler. But that's one of Ed Smith's whacky new picks so was never going to happen.
		
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yes, Curran offers something different with his bowling and has scored my runs than Buttler anyway


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## Mudball (Aug 17, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			Been confirmed that Stokes will replace Curran on Saturday.
		
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Sad.. what message does it give the youngster...   you can play your heart out, but if you are not a selectors pet then you dont have much chance.    Rashid, Butler having a free ride could have made way (unless they expect a turning pitch)


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## PieMan (Aug 17, 2018)

Mudball said:



			Sad.. what message does it give the youngster...   you can play your heart out, but if you are not a selectors pet then you dont have much chance.    Rashid, Butler having a free ride could have made way (unless they expect a turning pitch)
		
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Well at least Curran now knows what he needs to do to get back in - dye his hair ginger, go out on the lash, lamp someone repeatedly, and get banged-up..........&#129300;&#128521;&#128514;


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## Dan2501 (Aug 17, 2018)

3 pints, 10 vodka lemonades and a few jagerbombs would probably kill Sam Curran. I'd probably just scale it down a bit if I was him!


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 17, 2018)

Mudball said:



			Sad.. what message does it give the youngster...   you can play your heart out, but if you are not a selectors pet then you dont have much chance.    Rashid, Butler having a free ride could have made way (unless they expect a turning pitch)
		
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If Stokes is going back into the team then it needs to be at the expense of a bowler not a batter or a spinner so that left either Woakes or Curran and after the last test then it was always going to be Curran.

Whether Stokes should be able to play is something that is a different debate - on a cricket perspective Stokes is one of the first names on the tee sheet


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 17, 2018)

Mudball said:



			Sad.. what message does it give the youngster...   you can play your heart out, but if you are not a selectors pet then you dont have much chance.    Rashid, Butler having a free ride could have made way (unless they expect a turning pitch)
		
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Can't argue. He's made some good runs and bowled tidily so hard to see what he's done to justify being dropped.


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## Mudball (Aug 19, 2018)

So a good days play on Sunday.  When the contest is even, the pendulum is in India's favour.  There is something comforting about England's collapse consistency.    Monday morning session will be interesting.


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## Piece (Aug 21, 2018)

Perhaps time for two new openers? Jennings just isn't good enough and his technique hasn't improved, keeps getting out the same way. Cook looks out of form and a bit disinterested?


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## patricks148 (Aug 21, 2018)

Piece said:



			Perhaps time for two new openers? Jennings just isn't good enough and his technique hasn't improved, keeps getting out the same way. Cook looks out of form and a bit disinterested?
		
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you could be right. two down straight away in pretty much every innings recently.

Don't follow CC much now days but is anyone else scoring at the top of the order that could replace them?


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 21, 2018)

Piece said:



			Perhaps time for two new openers? Jennings just isn't good enough and his technique hasn't improved, keeps getting out the same way. Cook looks out of form and a bit disinterested?
		
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I watched the last hour or so yesterday. It was a horrible time for the England batsmen and they did well to survive. However, I didn't see anything in how Jennings batted to suggest he has learnt from his previous spell for England. He stands on the back foot only, he pats back half volleys and looks vulnerable in so many ways (although I accept the ball was dancing around yesterday so that made it look worse) In short he is not the answer.

Cooks time is also up but the big problem is we don't have anyone to take over either openers slot. It is a great time to be an England opener. Score a few runs and the job is yours. Two slots available.


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## Beezerk (Aug 21, 2018)

Come in Mr Cook, your time has been up for some years.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 21, 2018)

Have to keep Cook, he's still capable of performing at Test level and goes through these spells regularly, until he has an extended period without a hundred we have to keep him.

Jennings though needs to go. At this point I'd be tempted to bring back Ian Bell and stick him up to open. Sound technique, experienced Test player, runs under his belt in all formats and in good knick. Can't do any worse than Jennings.


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## Piece (Aug 21, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			Have to keep Cook, he's still capable of performing at Test level and goes through these spells regularly, until he has an extended period without a hundred we have to keep him.

Jennings though needs to go. *At this point I'd be tempted to bring back Ian Bell and stick him up to open*. Sound technique, experienced Test player, runs under his belt in all formats and in good knick. Can't do any worse than Jennings.
		
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That opens up a big can of worms! Best left alone. 

Rory Burns has been touted. Another Surrey player though. I'm not up to speed on CC to offer other suggestions but I know Jennings is not the answer.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 21, 2018)

Actually - I'd be happy with:

Cook
Burns
Root
Bell
Hildreth
Bairstow
Stokes
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson

Jennings needs to go, Pope's clearly not ready after seeing that last dismissal and Buttler's not a red-ball cricketer. 

I genuinely think we should think about bringing back Ian Bell. He had a torrid time last season after getting dropped but this year he's been awesome. Averaging 51 in FC cricket with 3 tons, 56 in OD's with a hundred and 48 in T20's with a hundred. He's in serious form, has a very good technique and is a proven performer at Test level, particularly at home. Even if he just comes back for this summer it'll be worth it if he gets a few runs. Something needs to change with this batting line-up, the cracks have been papered over by India's inept batting the first 2 games but it's pretty clear this line-up isn't good enough.

Just seen an interesting stat on Twitter:




			Massive historic statistical pressure on Stokes. If he makes 10, it will be the first time in Test history that the top 5 have all reached double figures in all four innings. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...1=runs;size=200;template=results;type=batting â€¦ The tension is unbearable.
		
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Come on Stokes!


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## Bunkermagnet (Aug 21, 2018)

Thereâ€™s Joe Denly or Daniel Bell Drummond down here in Kent, both doing well.
Pope isnâ€™t a no4, so you canâ€™t drop him for playing out of his normal position.


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## Beezerk (Aug 21, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			until he has an extended period without a hundred we have to keep him.
		
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Erm &#129300;


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## Dan2501 (Aug 21, 2018)

He made 244* against Australia less than 8 months ago. He also made 70 against Pakistan in May. Cook always goes through these runs of poor games but always comes out the other side with a big hundred. I'd be surprised if he didn't make one by the end of the series.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 21, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			He made 244* against Australia less than 8 months ago. He also made 70 against Pakistan in May. Cook always goes through these runs of poor games but always comes out the other side with a big hundred. I'd be surprised if he didn't make one by the end of the series.
		
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The problem is his inbetween scores are becoming more the norm and they are poor. As mentioned, he is safe purely because no one else is knocking on the door and because Jennings is ahead of him in terms of batsmen about to get the chop.


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## patricks148 (Aug 21, 2018)

just watching a bit of live play and Bumrah is bowling very strange looking action. Only a short stuttering run, but bowls a decent pace... well i say bowl, lloks like a complete chuck to me


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## Dan2501 (Aug 21, 2018)

Obviously now I've said Buttler's not a red ball player he's going to bat for 2 days and save a draw. 

And agreed - Bumrah has a seriously ugly action.


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## Mudball (Aug 21, 2018)

Piece said:



			Perhaps time for two new openers? Jennings just isn't good enough and his technique hasn't improved, keeps getting out the same way. Cook looks out of form and a bit disinterested?
		
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I am not so sure.. I think Root and Pope are doing a good job as openers.  there are two night watchmen before them.. but cant seen anything wrong with them either.  

Looks like England will pull htis into the 5th day..   What a match it would be if it is a draw..


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## Dan2501 (Aug 21, 2018)

Good hundred that from Buttler. Not chanceless by any means but you've got to cash in when you get the chance. England would definitely be a better side if Buttler turns his obvious ability to red-ball cricket, he's a fabulous cricketer.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 21, 2018)

Game over. 2 in 2.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2018)

Leach has just taken 8-85 to win the Match for Somerset- itâ€™s criminal he isnâ€™t in the Test Team 

Pope just isnâ€™t ready yet , Jennings just looks scared , think they still need to keep Cook but Burns must be given a chance 

For the next test I think they should go 

Cook
Burns
Root
Hildreath - just give him a go FFS
Bairstow
Buttler
Stokes
Woakes
Broad
Leach
Anderson 

If Bairstow is out injured then bringing back Bell in at three isnâ€™t a bad option , Vince is scoring well , Ali also and there is Abell at Somerset as well


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 22, 2018)

Definitely think they'll be changes. Hoping Jennings goes. Not up to it Bairstow being injured throws a spanner in the works. I think overall England are good enough to win the series but these collapses happen against every team and is something that needs to change if we're to consider ever topping the test rankings


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 22, 2018)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Definitely think they'll be changes. Hoping Jennings goes. Not up to it *Bairstow being injured throws a spanner in the works.* I think overall England are good enough to win the series but these collapses happen against every team and is something that needs to change if we're to consider ever topping the test rankings
		
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Surely they just have Buttler as keeper and bring in a replacement batsman at No.5. Would've been more difficult if we didn't have Buttler in the team but as he's in there it makes things simpler.


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## Junior (Aug 23, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Leach has just taken 8-85 to win the Match for Somerset- itâ€™s criminal he isnâ€™t in the Test Team 

Pope just isnâ€™t ready yet , Jennings just looks scared , think they still need to keep Cook but Burns must be given a chance 

For the next test I think they should go 

Cook
Burns
Root
Hildreath - just give him a go FFS
Bairstow
Buttler
Stokes
Woakes
Broad
Leach
Anderson 

If Bairstow is out injured then bringing back Bell in at three isnâ€™t a bad option , Vince is scoring well , Ali also and there is Abell at Somerset as well
		
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Ali has just scored 200+ and taken 6 wickets.......us he was man of the series against SA last summer.  I agree with your line up but would play Ali for Hildreth.  He only had one bad winter.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 30, 2018)

Surely it is time to put Jennings out of his misery and give another opener a chance to bed in before the winter tour. He has been given a chance, he has just not taken it.


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## Beezerk (Aug 30, 2018)

Cripes Iâ€™ve just seen the dismissal, my mother in law could do better with a stick of rhubarb ðŸ˜‚


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 30, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			Cripes Iâ€™ve just seen the dismissal, my mother in law could do better with a stick of rhubarb ðŸ˜‚
		
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Does that make you a relative of Sir Geoffrey?


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## Beezerk (Aug 30, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Does that make you a relative of Sir Geoffrey?
		
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Eyup lad, thee thaa thou.
Yes, I think so


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## Paperboy (Aug 30, 2018)

I went today, definitely a good toss to lose. My friend who had played minor counties said bat all day long.
The Indian Seamers are 5MPH quicker then ours and it shows. 

Glad Curran got the runs looked very good. Going again tomorrow, if one of the openers is bowling Dross would get him into the attack sharpish!


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 30, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Surely it is time to put Jennings out of his misery and give another opener a chance to bed in before the winter tour. He has been given a chance, he has just not taken it.
		
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Totally agree. Very average batting display (Curran excepted) and have a feeling it'll be 2-2 by Sunday night


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## Dan2501 (Aug 31, 2018)

Rory Burns has made 1,000 runs the last 5 seasons and is the first man to hit that mark this year.
Ian Bell is the first man this season to make 4 FC hundreds and has just reached 20,000 runs - time to bring him back.

They both should be in the XI, it's time this batting line-up got changed. Jennings is nowhere near good enough and we don't need two spinners. For the 5th Test I'd be picking:

Cook
Burns
Bell
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Moeen
Curran (Woakes if fit)
Broad
Anderson


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## Beezerk (Aug 31, 2018)

Cook out as well, look at his average over the last few years, not great if you disregard to two decent innings he had.


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## patricks148 (Aug 31, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			Rory Burns has made 1,000 runs the last 5 seasons and is the first man to hit that mark this year.
Ian Bell is the first man this season to make 4 FC hundreds and has just reached 20,000 runs - time to bring him back.

They both should be in the XI, it's time this batting line-up got changed. Jennings is nowhere near good enough and we don't need two spinners. For the 5th Test I'd be picking:

Cook
Burns
Bell
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Moeen
Curran (Woakes if fit)
Broad
Anderson
		
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can't really disagree on any of those though i do like Curren over Woakes as he offers something different.

i was speaking to a mate the other day who's a Surrey members and has seen a fair bit of Burns, " deserves a go, but technique is a bit sketchy" were his comments


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## fundy (Aug 31, 2018)

Burns has a very odd looking technique but ultimately weight of runs at County level means he is definitely worth giving a go to, especially whilst hes in decent nick.

This test side is bizarre, we have almost every batter batting out of position, Bairstow playing just as a batter (I assumed Stokes was too when Jennings bowled before him!). Weve picked 2 spinners despite the skipper really not wanting to ever bowl them.

For me having got a double hundred last week Id have batted Ali at 3 to allow everyone else to shift down one and bat in their more accustomed position. I assume the fact hes another lefty is why they didnt want to (wouldve been solved by dropping Jennings of course) but there really doesnt seem to be a clear plan as to the composition of the side (not helped by the fact that we dont possess a single batter able to bat time with Cook struggling)

Fair play to anyone who can name the top 6 for the first test this winter, not quite sure where the selectors even start lol


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 31, 2018)

I'll not take that bet Fundy. No idea what the 6 could be but I wouldn't have any of the first three either there, the openers, or in their current position, Root. That leaves 1-3 up for grabs. 4-6 then falls into place much easier. 

The selectors need to show some bottle for the last test and do something about that top order.


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## Pathetic Shark (Aug 31, 2018)

Simple solution - listen to what that twerp Boycott has to say and then do the complete opposite.


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## fundy (Aug 31, 2018)

Pathetic Shark said:



			listen to what that twerp Boycott has to say and then do the com
		
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Lord Tyrion said:



			I'll not take that bet Fundy. No idea what the 6 could be but I wouldn't have any of the first three either there, the openers, or in their current position, Root. That leaves 1-3 up for grabs. 4-6 then falls into place much easier.

The selectors need to show some bottle for the last test and do something about that top order.
		
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last test a bit easier for me than the winter as it could well be a winner takes all one off game, if it is id throw the dice something like this assuming everyone is fit:

Burns
Ali
Bell
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Curran
Broad
Andersen


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## Dan2501 (Aug 31, 2018)

This spell really makes you wonder why we even bothered with Rashid. Ali offers so much more with bat and ball.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 31, 2018)

Some frustrating wagging of the Indian tail and a great knock from Pujara. Crucial we get to parity at least without losing a wicket. Will turn plenty tomorrow and I think we need a 250 lead to defend in the final innings.


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## fundy (Aug 31, 2018)

Cant say i agree Homer, Jennings and Cook not been crucial to any game of this series and dont see it starting now, both look like dead men walking, anything from either has to be considered a bonus at this stage. All about whether one or two of the middle order can bat long enough to set them 200+ and then whether we can get Kohli out again. Would quite like to see it go to a decider and set whether any of the selectors actually own a set


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 31, 2018)

fundy said:



			Cant say i agree Homer, Jennings and Cook not been crucial to any game of this series and dont see it starting now, both look like dead men walking, anything from either has to be considered a bonus at this stage. All about whether one or two of the middle order can bat long enough to set them 200+ and then whether we can get Kohli out again. Would quite like to see it go to a decider and set whether any of the selectors actually own a set
		
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Trouble is I think one thing we'll both agree on is the answer to your last sentence in a definite no


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2018)

fundy said:



			last test a bit easier for me than the winter as it could well be a winner takes all one off game, if it is id throw the dice something like this assuming everyone is fit:

Burns
Ali
Bell
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Curran
Broad
Andersen
		
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I would replace Woakes with Leach 
And please please give Hildreath the chance 

But I donâ€™t expect them to do either 

Unless Jennings has a big innings then this is the team I expect for the next test 

Cook
Burns ( Jennings if he has a big innings )
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Curran
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

If Woakes isnâ€™t fit would like to see J Overton in


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## fundy (Aug 31, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I would replace Woakes with Leach
And please please give Hildreath the chance

But I donâ€™t expect them to do either

Unless Jennings has a big innings then this is the team I expect for the next test

Cook
Burns ( Jennings if he has a big innings )
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Curran
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

If Woakes isnâ€™t fit would like to see J Overton in
		
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Leach over Woakes? I know youre a Somerset fan but seriously why? Root struggles to bowl one spinner, are you advocating picking Leach and bowling him ahead of Moeen after todays performance? Woakes if fit would be one of the first names on the sheet in English conditions for me, capable of winning the game with one spell and capable of a test hundred from down the order as already proved this series. 

Think Hildreths time was several years ago (if at all in red ball cricket) and not in a one off decider game, hence why Id give Bell a shot (whos got close to 1000 runs this year), but lets be honest a pretty big ask for anyone to come in at 2-2 from outside the squad and get runs (hence why Id bat Moeen up the order, especially having got a double ton last week)

Expect your side above is right though (with Woakes batting above Curran), and we'll continue to expose Root and Bairstow to the new ball far earlier than ideal


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2018)

fundy said:



			Leach over Woakes? I know youre a Somerset fan but seriously why? Root struggles to bowl one spinner, are you advocating picking Leach and bowling him ahead of Moeen after todays performance? Woakes if fit would be one of the first names on the sheet in English conditions for me, capable of winning the game with one spell and capable of a test hundred from down the order as already proved this series.

Think Hildreths time was several years ago (if at all in red ball cricket) and not in a one off decider game, hence why Id give Bell a shot (whos got close to 1000 runs this year), but lets be honest a pretty big ask for anyone to come in at 2-2 from outside the squad and get runs (hence why Id bat Moeen up the order, especially having got a double ton last week)

Expect your side above is right though (with Woakes batting above Curran), and we'll continue to expose Root and Bairstow to the new ball far earlier than ideal
		
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I think Woakes thigh Isnâ€™t going to be ready and I have a feeling that with the dry spell we are about to have would result in a turning wicket at the Oval and have two spinners playing but if fit would have both in the squad and make a choice on the day based on the forecast and the wicket , the Rashid experiment as embarrassing as it was hasnâ€™t worked and itâ€™s time to get Leach back in. 

Hildreath is also not far off 1000 runs and in Div 1 - but he should have been given a go over the winter or at least at the start of summer but the fascination with Vince is typical of England selectors ( they did the same with Bopara ) - Bell isnâ€™t a bad choice  and he should bave been recalled last year 

But we know that Smith and Co donâ€™t have the coconuts to make a bold move and go outside the circle so only one change really - Burns I suspect will enter the fray


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## Paperboy (Aug 31, 2018)

Went again today, if you'd have told me how it would have finished for the day I'd have snapped your hand off!

Thought Roots captaincy was poor today, if your going to have a fast bowler bounce someone it shouldn't be Anderson. He doesn't trust Rashid so why play him!

Hildreth has scored 800+ runs a season since 2005, deserves a chance but his face obliviously doesn't fit. A Aussie great and Chris Rogers thinks he deserves a chance.


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## Paperboy (Aug 31, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think Woakes thigh Isnâ€™t going to be ready and I have a feeling that with the dry spell we are about to have would result in a turning wicket at the Oval and have two spinners playing but if fit would have both in the squad and make a choice on the day based on the forecast and the wicket , the Rashid experiment as embarrassing as it was hasnâ€™t worked and itâ€™s time to get Leach back in.

Hildreath is also not far off 1000 runs and in Div 1 - but he should have been given a go over the winter or at least at the start of summer but the fascination with Vince is typical of England selectors ( they did the same with Bopara ) - Bell isnâ€™t a bad choice  and he should bave been recalled last year

But we know that Smith and Co donâ€™t have the coconuts to make a bold move and go outside the circle so only one change really - Burns I suspect will enter the fray
		
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Phil Bell had an awful season last year and rightly no where near a recall!


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 31, 2018)

Paperboy said:



			Went again today, if you'd have told me how it would have finished for the day I'd have snapped your hand off!

Thought Roots captaincy was poor today, if your going to have a fast bowler bounce someone it shouldn't be Anderson. He doesn't trust Rashid so why play him!

Hildreth has scored 800+ runs a season since 2005, deserves a chance but his face obliviously doesn't fit. A Aussie great and Chris Rogers thinks he deserves a chance.
		
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Interesting point you raise about Root's captaincy. Is he that good? Does he lack the courage to force the game at times. I know it was a good knock from Pujara but we let them get too many at the end and in a tight match they could be the big difference. He didn't seem to have any Plan B


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## fundy (Sep 2, 2018)

Test match should already be in the bag, 3rd umprie inexplicably decided to give Kohli 2 bites at the cherry. Horrid not out on the DRS when bat clearly hit pad not ball


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 2, 2018)

Massive wicket - he should have gone about 2 hours but England have to push on now.


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## fundy (Sep 2, 2018)

Kohli and out, as most expected

So series won, dead rubber at the Oval, will the selectors use it to have a look at a couple of options ahead of the winter or just pick the same old faces? Yep


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## IanM (Sep 2, 2018)

Hope to see new openers!


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## Dan2501 (Sep 2, 2018)

Got away with that one. Batting still not good enough, just lucky we're playing a team with an even more inept batting line-up. Hope to see changes going into the 5th Test.


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## fundy (Sep 2, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			Got away with that one. Batting still not good enough, *just lucky we're playing a team with an even more inept batting line-up*. Hope to see changes going into the 5th Test.
		
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Interesting when you look at the top 6s of the 2 sides, Indias has comfortably outperformed Englands! Kohli head and shoulders the best with 2 tons and 3 other 50+ scores, Pujara has a ton and a 50+ score and Rahane has 2 50+ scores. Englands top 6 have made 4 scores of 50+ between them in 4 matches ( 2 for Bairstow 1 for Root and Stokes) !!!! 

Where England have ultimately won the series with the bat is 7-9. Buttler, Curran and Woakes have 2 tons and 3 50+ scores between them and have scored almost as many total runs as the top 6 have!


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 2, 2018)

Well hopefully they will now give Burns a go , I think Cook will miss the last test so Jennings will go a last chance 

Abell again scores another ton so maybe he should be given a go but doubtful as he plays for Somerset 

If all fully fit then I think the team will be

Burns
Jennings
Ali
Root
Bairstow 
Stokes
Buttler
Curren
Woakes
Broad
Anderson 

If the wicket is going to turn then Leach should play but they will play Rashid


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 2, 2018)

Lots of Sky Sports hype for the series win but I still think the result has papered over some glaring cracks. Hopefully the Oval test will allow selectors to play some different players and assess them ahead of the winter tour. Whether they do that remains to be seen as does who they'd bring in. A real contrast in conditions on tour with the pitches of Sri Lanka and the pace of the West Indies on their home soil. Both sets of conditions will test our batting which I feel is still very brittle and lacks consistency of runs throughout


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## Beezerk (Sep 2, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well hopefully they will now give Burns a go , I think Cook will miss the last test so Jennings will go a last chance

Abell again scores another ton so maybe he should be given a go but doubtful as he plays for Somerset

If all fully fit then I think the team will be

Burns
Jennings
Ali
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Curren
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

If the wicket is going to turn then Leach should play but they will play Rashid
		
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Jennings? Have you been sniffing glue


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 2, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			Jennings? Have you been sniffing glue 

Click to expand...

They arenâ€™t going to bring in two new openers and Cook is more than likely going to miss the test


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## Beezerk (Sep 2, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They arenâ€™t going to bring in two new openers and Cook is more than likely going to miss the test
		
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Iâ€™d have thought Jennings was the dead man walking and Cook will play out this, possibly his last series, out of respect of his achievements.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 2, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			Iâ€™d have thought Jennings was the dead man walking and Cook will play out this, possibly his last series, out of respect of his achievements.
		
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Cooks wife is due to give birth - there was a chance he would miss this test but more than likely going to miss the next one


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 2, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			Iâ€™d have thought Jennings was the dead man walking and Cook will play out this, possibly his last series, out of respect of his achievements.
		
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Can see Jennings getting cut (rightly so in my opinion) and Cook may miss as his wife is due to give birth. I guess if that happens early he may be able to play but I suggest the selectors will leave that decision to him as long as they can dependant on when the birth happens and everything going well. However, the argument will probably come down to not wanting two new openers. Is there anyone who could move up and do a job? If not Jennings will survive one more game


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## Pathetic Shark (Sep 3, 2018)

I think we should go with Boycott and Amiss to open.   I always liked Dennis Amiss but really just want to see that moron Boycott knocked flying with the first ball.   Who gives a toss about the result after that?

Please no more picking Surrey players until we have clinched the championship.  OK so it's a matter of time but let all our guys enjoy it together.   No Ian Bell please - been there done that.


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## Junior (Sep 3, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well hopefully they will now give Burns a go , I think Cook will miss the last test so Jennings will go a last chance

Abell again scores another ton so maybe he should be given a go but doubtful as he plays for Somerset

If all fully fit then I think the team will be

Burns
Jennings
Ali
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Curren
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

If the wicket is going to turn then Leach should play but they will play Rashid
		
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Agree with this side.  Burns for whichever opener does not play.  Giver the other opener a chance.  No point bringing another opener in for the last test of the Summer.   I'd play Ali at three for the next test but I'm unsure as to whether her is a long term solution to our number three woes.


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## Dan2501 (Sep 3, 2018)

Alastair Cook has announced he is going to retire after the 5th Test vs India.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 3, 2018)

I am pleased with the announcement. He has been a top player for England and his dip in form has been painful to watch. Better to go now when he has some control over it rather than eke it out further and then get dropped. He will get a good send off.


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## Piece (Sep 3, 2018)

It is the right decision for Cook. Brilliant career that should be rightfully applauded. I think half the reason he knew it was time was because he was dropping more in the slips than he ever used too.


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## fundy (Sep 3, 2018)

Cook has been brilliant for England many many times over his career, not to mention enduring his fair share when captain and more recently, hopefully he'll have a few seasons filling his boots at Chelmer Park and around the county scene. Englands highest test run scorer and gonna be a while until someone challenges it, if ever the way the game going.

Enjoy the international retirement Chef!


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## Dan2501 (Sep 3, 2018)

Fair play to him. Knew his race was run, now it's up to England to find suitable replacements. Has had a magnificent career, no-one has got more out of their ability than Cook. Worked his socks off and got some incredible results, he's been magnificent!


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## Junior (Sep 3, 2018)

Fair play.  The sixth highest test run scorer of all time.   The most consecutive number of tests, Most hundreds etc etc.  He's bowing out at the right time.  It will be interesting next Summer when he's scoring hundred after hundred for Essex and people will be screaming for him to be recalled lololol


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 3, 2018)

The word Legend imo gets thrown around far too easily these days but itâ€™s rightly given to Cook - he has been an truely world class player and will be missed , hopefully see him around the town more often now


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 3, 2018)

Junior said:



			Fair play.  The sixth highest test run scorer of all time.   The most consecutive number of tests, Most hundreds etc etc.  He's bowing out at the right time.  It will be interesting next Summer when he's scoring hundred after hundred for Essex and people will be screaming for him to be recalled lololol
		
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I suspect that he will have retired from County Cricket  as well before next season. 

Rather like Michael Vaughan did, so Cook will soon find that a diet of County Championship doesn't get the juices flowing when you have playing  Test cricket for years.


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## patricks148 (Sep 3, 2018)

Sky will probably be getting a new pundit then


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## Paperboy (Sep 3, 2018)

patricks148 said:



			Sky will probably be getting a new pundit then
		
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Hope not to be honest, think he would be quite dull. He'll be of to his farm like he does on his time off.


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## patricks148 (Sep 3, 2018)

Paperboy said:



			Hope not to be honest, think he would be quite dull. He'll be of to his farm like he does on his time off.
		
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he will be in good company with Nas and Beefy


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 3, 2018)

Paperboy said:



			Hope not to be honest, think he would be quite dull. He'll be of to his farm like he does on his time off.
		
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Yep - he farm is around the corner and itâ€™s a very busy one , as for him being dull - he seemed far from it when he was at one of our sports Gents evenings.


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## Don Barzini (Sep 3, 2018)

Thanks for everything Alastair.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 3, 2018)

I assume if he is retiring after the next test the intention is to play despite his wife about to give birth. Would be good if he could and go out to the farewell his career deserves


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## Imurg (Sep 3, 2018)

Apparently, if Cook scores over 15000 runs in the 5th test Not Out he will retire with an average of 100.....

Some people have too much time on their hands...


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## Dan2501 (Sep 4, 2018)

Imurg said:



			Apparently, if Cook scores over 15000 runs in the 5th test Not Out he will retire with an average of 100.....

Some people have too much time on their hands...

Click to expand...

So if England bat first and Cook bats every ball of every day and the over-rates are good enough that we get 90 overs a day, he only needs to score at 33.33 runs an over to do it. Easy.


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## chrisd (Sep 4, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			So if England bat first and Cook bats every ball of every day and the over-rates are good enough that we get 90 overs a day, he only needs to score at 33.33 runs an over to do it. Easy.
		
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I'd wager that he'd edge one to 2nd slip on 14,999 ðŸ˜€


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## fundy (Sep 4, 2018)

England selectors as creative as ever lol


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 4, 2018)

I don't understand the logic in keeping the same batting line up. Poor selection.


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## Dan2501 (Sep 4, 2018)

Just as Burns racks up another 50 as well. 

Thought Jennings was always going to end up playing with the tour to Sri Lanka on the horizon but is still pretty disappointing. Guess it's Burns and Jennings to open on the next Tour then.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 4, 2018)

Nice 5 wicket haul for Leach with the red ball whilst England persevere with Rashid who has done nothing of note in the tests

All round pretty poor from England selectors - should have given Burns and a n other in the batting line up


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## Dan2501 (Sep 4, 2018)

Cook needs 147 runs in the final Test to pass Kumar Sangakkara and become the leading left-handed Test run scorer.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 4, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			Cook needs 147 runs in the final Test to pass Kumar Sangakkara and become the leading left-handed Test run scorer.
		
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Do you think the Indians will play nicely and keep feeding him long hops? Nothing pitched too far up or going across him please


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## Dan2501 (Sep 4, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do you think the Indians will play nicely and keep feeding him long hops? Nothing pitched too far up or going across him please 

Click to expand...

I think it's only fair. They should bring back a seam attack of Agarkar, Nehra and Pankaj Singh and only bowl short of a length. It's the honourable thing to do.


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## fundy (Sep 4, 2018)

MetalMickie said:



			I suspect that he will have retired from County Cricket  as well before next season.

Rather like Michael Vaughan did, so Cook will soon find that a diet of County Championship doesn't get the juices flowing when you have playing  Test cricket for years.
		
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rumoured to be signing a new 3 year contract with Essex, hes only 33  Lets hope he goes on as long as Trescothick!!!!!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 4, 2018)

fundy said:



			rumoured to be signing a new 3 year contract with Essex, hes only 33  Lets hope he goes on as long as Trescothick!!!!!
		
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If he signs such a contract I would be amazed if he sees it through. 

He is a man who clearly realises that there is more to his life than cricket and if he has been at the very top level for 12 years then I would be surprised if he can find motivation in CC cricket in front of two men and a dog in September.


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## Norrin Radd (Sep 4, 2018)

so Cook says im off ,to my mind that smacks of let me play in the last test as i wouldnt have got picked any other way cos im playing as Tashy would say RAMMEL. this way i go out with a fanfare rather than just fading away .
 im sure that im in for a bit of slating now but you know im right. he wouldnt have been picked if he wasnt retiring.


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## jusme (Sep 4, 2018)

Last test of the series....I'm certain he would have played, regardless. I'm equally sure he would have been dropped before the next tour/series. No outstanding talents waiting to take his place, otherwise the threat might have been earlier


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 4, 2018)

Norrin Radd said:



			so Cook says im off ,to my mind that smacks of let me play in the last test as i wouldnt have got picked any other way cos im playing as Tashy would say RAMMEL. this way i go out with a fanfare rather than just fading away .
im sure that im in for a bit of slating now but you know im right. he wouldnt have been picked if he wasnt retiring.
		
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OK then who would have been picked in his place,  bearing in mind the difficulty in finding a replacement for Jennings who would surely be the first  to go.

From what I have seen Burns isn't the answer. You can get away with going at the ball in County cricket but we have  seen that doesn't transfer to Tests.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 4, 2018)

Norrin Radd said:



			so Cook says im off ,to my mind that smacks of let me play in the last test as i wouldnt have got picked any other way cos im playing as Tashy would say RAMMEL. this way i go out with a fanfare rather than just fading away .
im sure that im in for a bit of slating now but you know im right. he wouldnt have been picked if he wasnt retiring.
		
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Cook was always going to be playing in the last test - the selectors arent going to drop someone when there isnt anyone better to replace him with. 

So sorry you are not right.

Burns is the one that is next in line to be given a go but who knows with him


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 4, 2018)

Norrin Radd said:



			so Cook says im off ,to my mind that smacks of let me play in the last test as i wouldnt have got picked any other way cos im playing as Tashy would say RAMMEL. this way i go out with a fanfare rather than just fading away .
im sure that im in for a bit of slating now but you know im right. he wouldnt have been picked if he wasnt retiring.
		
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Must confess, I have a great deal of sympathy with this view. However, the fly in the ointment is that his opening partner isnt set or certain, and would the selectors have risked 2 new openers?
Seeing as the series is won, I think they should have been looking to try new blood opening and defo number 3, but then I'm not selecting.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 4, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Cook was always going to be playing in the last test - the selectors arent going to drop someone when there isnt anyone better to replace him with.

So sorry you are not right.

Burns is the one that is next in line to be given a go but who knows with him
		
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Posts 209 and 211 said he was going to miss the test. Now he was always going to play????

I think he deserves his finale given what he's done but surely it's still down to whether he wants to be at the birth of his child doesn't it


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## fundy (Sep 4, 2018)

http://cricviz.com/2018/09/to-treat-those-two-imposter-just-the-same/

Cracking article on Cook


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 4, 2018)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Must confess, I have a great deal of sympathy with this view. However, the fly in the ointment is that his opening partner isnt set or certain, and would the selectors have risked 2 new openers?
Seeing as the series is won, I think they should have been looking to try new blood opening and defo number 3, but then I'm not selecting.
		
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Nothing wrong with picking two new openers and blooding them together for a dead rubber. However is there anyone in the current squad capable of moving up to open to just pick one newbie?


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## fundy (Sep 4, 2018)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Nothing wrong with picking two new openers and blooding them together for a dead rubber. However is there anyone in the current squad capable of moving up to open to just pick one newbie?
		
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Ali the only one who is used to batting in the top order, looks like he may well be batting at 3 again anyway


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## Piece (Sep 5, 2018)

Sounds like a cracking game at Taunton. Somerset fail to chase 78 to win the game...match tied. ðŸ˜²


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## Norrin Radd (Sep 5, 2018)

all very well saying who is going to replace Cook ,but unless we try player how the hell are you going to pick a player you know very little about ,the final test would have been an ideal chance to try new blood. all due respect to Cook he is one of the finest players i have seen but every dog has to bow out sometime.


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## fundy (Sep 5, 2018)

Piece said:



			Sounds like a cracking game at Taunton. Somerset fail to chase 78 to win the game...match tied. ðŸ˜²
		
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utterly brainless at the end from Somerset, Bess stumped with scores level then Leach holes out to wide long on.

interesting to see if Somerset are still in positive points once the pitch has been assessed (assuming the assessor can get in on day 3 lol)


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 5, 2018)

Norrin Radd said:



			all very well saying who is going to replace Cook ,but unless we try player how the hell are you going to pick a player you know very little about ,the final test would have been an ideal chance to try new blood. all due respect to Cook he is one of the finest players i have seen but every dog has to bow out sometime.
		
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On the other hand it is all very well saying replace Cook and Jennings but with whom do you replace them.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 5, 2018)

Norrin Radd said:



			all very well saying who is going to replace Cook ,but unless we try player how the hell are you going to pick a player you know very little about ,the final test would have been an ideal chance to try new blood. all due respect to Cook he is one of the finest players i have seen but every dog has to bow out sometime.
		
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So which new blood should they try considering they have been trying openers for the last 3/4 years and none have been as good as Cook


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## Norrin Radd (Sep 5, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So which new blood should they try considering they have been trying openers for the last 3/4 years and none have been as good as Cook
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



			So which new blood should they try considering they have been trying openers for the last 3/4 years and none have been as good as Cook
		
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so nobody is better than Cook who is playing like Stevie Wonder in batting and slip fielding .ok so lets talk him out of retirement then shall we?
 the selectors will pick who they think is capable and we will see if they are right.but we will be sending them to Sri Lanka untried .I would rather they played the last test together in front of a large crowd and get a glimpse of what could be rather than hoping in  Sri Lanka that they might perform .I dont know who can replace Cook they are huge shoes to fill but we wont be any the wiser if players dont get a chance and a dead rubber is a great place for new blood.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 5, 2018)

Norrin Radd said:



			so nobody is better than Cook who is playing like Stevie Wonder in batting and slip fielding .ok so lets talk him out of retirement then shall we?
the selectors will pick who they think is capable and we will see if they are right.but we will be sending them to Sri Lanka untried .I would rather they played the last test together in front of a large crowd and get a glimpse of what could be rather than hoping in  Sri Lanka that they might perform .I dont know who can replace Cook they are huge shoes to fill but we wont be any the wiser if players dont get a chance and a dead rubber is a great place for new blood.
		
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A world of difference between the conditions at the Oval in September and those that they will experience in Sri Lanka 

If two new openers are to be blooded then better it is done away from the glare of the home based media.


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## fundy (Sep 5, 2018)

thats one thing, not sure Galle is the best of places to try and start your career. Gonna be a tough winter for the batters in relatively alien conditions youd think


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 5, 2018)

MetalMickie said:



			A world of difference between the conditions at the Oval in September and those that they will experience in Sri Lanka

If two new openers are to be blooded then better it is done away from the glare of the home based media.
		
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Not sure I agree. Blooding them in unfamiliar surroundings and seeing them struggle will have the hacks sharpening the knives. We've seen before how England can bring promising players in and then seemingly discard them because they haven't performed before. At best they'll be in and out of the side for a while and worse case dropped like a stone. Like all good sides, if we are going to be transitioning like the Aussies had to, as the likes of Anderson can't keep going, then we need to bring people into the fold and let them find their feet. We have development squads but again it's a huge leap from that level of cricket (and against opposition a long way of test sides) to test cricket


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 5, 2018)

fundy said:



			thats one thing, not sure Galle is the best of places to try and start your career. Gonna be a tough winter for the batters in relatively alien conditions youd think
		
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I agree but it wouldn't be made any easier by playing one home Test at the Oval.


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 5, 2018)

It's not only the ground conditions, but the standard of bowler they will be facing. It's one thing to open against county bowlers, but a different story against the top of  India in this case, then Sri Lanka.


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## TheDiablo (Sep 6, 2018)

Piece said:



			Sounds like a cracking game at Taunton. Somerset fail to chase 78 to win the game...match tied. ðŸ˜²
		
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I think Somerset are going to end up in a spot of bother with the officials. 40 wickets shouldn't fall in 2 days in any first class cricket, with 25 falling to spint! There is a world of difference between producing a 'result pitch' and a 'joke pitch'. Somerset have produced many many good result pitches over the last few years, but too often now when a result is really needed they get it completely wrong. Will be amazed if point sanctions doesnt follow.

Leach bowling before lunch on Day 1, then opening the bowling in the 2nd innings before close of play! It's tough to take him seriously when his average is pulled so artificially low by these pitches which is a real shame for him as he obviously has talent. I personally think he should demand better pitches or privately threaten a move away - if he has the class then that will shine through and England may finally sit up and notice.


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## Junior (Sep 6, 2018)

TheDiablo said:



			I think Somerset are going to end up in a spot of bother with the officials. 40 wickets shouldn't fall in 2 days in any first class cricket, with 25 falling to spint! There is a world of difference between producing a 'result pitch' and a 'joke pitch'. Somerset have produced many many good result pitches over the last few years, but too often now when a result is really needed they get it completely wrong. Will be amazed if point sanctions doesnt follow.

Leach bowling before lunch on Day 1, then opening the bowling in the 2nd innings before close of play! It's tough to take him seriously when his average is pulled so artificially low by these pitches which is a real shame for him as he obviously has talent. I personally think he should demand better pitches or privately threaten a move away - if he has the class then that will shine through and England may finally sit up and notice.
		
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I agree....It would be interesting to see his stas at Taunton versus away from it.  No doubt he is one of the best in the country though and should be in any squad to the sub-continent. 

Looking at the county scores yesterday again showed the lack of quality batsmen around though.  Lots of very low scores.   When Cook starts rattling them up next year people will be calling for him to come out of retirement


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## fundy (Sep 6, 2018)

Junior said:



			I agree....*It would be interesting to see his stas at Taunton versus away from it*.  No doubt he is one of the best in the country though and should be in any squad to the sub-continent.

Looking at the county scores yesterday again showed the lack of quality batsmen around though.  Lots of very low scores.   When Cook starts rattling them up next year people will be calling for him to come out of retirement 

Click to expand...

This year hes got 27 wickets in the championship in 8 games, 22 of them in the last 2 matches at Taunton (hes taken 5 wickets away from Taunton in 4 games)

Last year he got 51 wickets in 14 games, 35 in 7 games at Taunton (18 in the last 2) and 16 in 7 away games

Not the whole story but does paint part of the picture for sure


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 6, 2018)

From what I have read a lot of the wickets that fell on the first and second day were down to some really poor batting - Leach apparently wasnâ€™t getting any extra turn on those first few days - not sure about the third day. They do favour him a number of times at home but then I think Home clubs should be able to prepare a wicket to favour the Home players - Somerset will no doubt get fined for the pitch but if teams can manufacture a game with declarations so other teams couldnâ€™t win the championship then I find it a bit of a nonsense. 

As for Leach - he doesnâ€™t seen to get much turn on wickets away from Taunton but on pitches that turn he gets wickets - he should be a shoe in for the winter tour but I donâ€™t think they will pick him


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## Piece (Sep 6, 2018)

Whatever happened to the batting road that was Taunton years ago?


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## TheDiablo (Sep 6, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			From what I have read a lot of the wickets that fell on the first and second day were down to some really poor batting - Leach apparently wasnâ€™t getting any extra turn on those first few days - not sure about the third day. They do favour him a number of times at home but then I think Home clubs should be able to prepare a wicket to favour the Home players - Somerset will no doubt get fined for the pitch but if teams can manufacture a game with declarations so other teams couldnâ€™t win the championship then I find it a bit of a nonsense.

As for Leach - he doesnâ€™t seen to get much turn on wickets away from Taunton but on pitches that turn he gets wickets - he should be a shoe in for the winter tour but I donâ€™t think they will pick him
		
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It finished half hour after tea on Day 2 Phil - that's why you're not sure about the 3rd day!! 

Leach opening the bowling on a day 1 pitch and turning it square past an opening batsmen sums the pitch up unfortunately. Not sure where you've read there was no extra turn than usual. 

Poor batting or not, no 1st class match with 9 Internationals should give up 13 wickets to spin on Day 1 and another 12 on Day 2.

I agree he should tour Sri Lanka, stick him up against his peers and hopefully he's as good as some of his figures suggest, England could do with a wicket taking spinner.


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## TheDiablo (Sep 6, 2018)

Piece said:



			Whatever happened to the batting road that was Taunton years ago?
		
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They realised they would never win the CC with so many home draws each year so been producing 3 day turners for a few years now.


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## millarman (Sep 6, 2018)

I love how this thread has drifted away from its original subject but should Alistair Cook be picked for the last test now heâ€™s announced his retirement from test cricket?


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## Junior (Sep 7, 2018)

millarman said:



			I love how this thread has drifted away from its original subject but should Alistair Cook be picked for the last test now heâ€™s announced his retirement from test cricket?
		
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Yes, imo he should have opened with Burns all series.   Sadly the cupboards are bare for top three batsmen on the county circuit right now, but, I bet if Alaister Cook had played every game for Essex this year he would have been one of the top run scorers in FC cricket.  Just my opinion of course.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 7, 2018)

millarman said:



			I love how this thread has drifted away from its original subject but should Alistair Cook be picked for the last test now heâ€™s announced his retirement from test cricket?
		
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This wont be popular but I think it is self indulgent. I don't blame Cook for wanting a last hurrah but if you look rationally it is not good for English cricket. If he was retiring whilst still scoring runs, as say Tendulkar did, then it is fine. However, the well has been dry for a spell now and so this is a gift test for him. Really he should have been replaced for this test but by announcing his retirement before the game he bought himself another match. A hard nosed team would not have done this.


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## Dan2501 (Sep 7, 2018)

For everything Cook has done for English cricket, he deserved once last hurrah. The series is won, this gives him chance to walk off and get the send off he ultimately deserves. No problem with this at all.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 7, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			This wont be popular but I think it is self indulgent. I don't blame Cook for wanting a last hurrah but if you look rationally it is not good for English cricket. If he was retiring whilst still scoring runs, as say Tendulkar did, then it is fine. However, the well has been dry for a spell now and so this is a gift test for him. Really he should have been replaced for this test but by announcing his retirement before the game he bought himself another match. A hard nosed team would not have done this.
		
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Replaced by who exactly ? 

All well and good if there is someone out there that is going to produce the runs - but look how many partners Cook has played with and struggled. 

Cook has earned the right to retire on his terms , and the last person who would do it for self indulgent reasons is Cook - thatâ€™s something that you would see from KP. 

If people wanted an opener to come in then Jennings should be the one to miss out but Root said it spot on - the guys have won the series 3-1 and they are determined to beat the number 1 side 4-1 and that the players who have got them there deserve the chance to complete the job. 

The only person I have seen who begrudges Cook his final Swansong is Piers Morgan - that to me says it all


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## Junior (Sep 7, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			This wont be popular but I think it is self indulgent. I don't blame Cook for wanting a last hurrah but if you look rationally it is not good for English cricket. If he was retiring whilst still scoring runs, as say Tendulkar did, then it is fine. However, the well has been dry for a spell now and so this is a gift test for him. Really he should have been replaced for this test but by announcing his retirement before the game he bought himself another match. A hard nosed team would not have done this.
		
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I understand your logic LT.  I think if there were a que of batsmen ripping up first class cricket then he shouldn't have even played in the last test.  I think Burns deserves a shot but i'd have actually brought him in for Pope and batted him at 3 at the start of the series.   I like the thought of having 3 openers at 1,2 and 3 and it worked really well when David Boon came into the Australian side.   

However, as it's a dead rubber, and we've won the series, i wouldn't have denied our highest ever run scorer in test cricket, and the guy who's captainined England most in tests a day in the sun.  

Tbh, the only thing that gets my goat up about it is how the press , as well as singing his praises are also dragging up KP - gate.  Which was never really his fault anyway.


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## Junior (Sep 7, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The only person I have seen who begrudges Cook his final Swansong is Piers Morgan - that to me says it all
		
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I saw all that unfold on twitter - really boils my **** that guy.   He was gushing about what a great player KP was (which you cant argue against), but actually, if you compare Cooks record over KP's career, they are pretty much identical.  Cook's has sadly declined in recent times.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 7, 2018)

Junior said:



			I saw all that unfold on twitter - really boils my **** that guy.   He was gushing about what a great player KP was (which you cant argue against), but actually, if you compare Cooks record over KP's career, they are pretty much identical.  Cook's has sadly declined in recent times.
		
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It was shocking and it carried on again today when Aggers shoved some facts at him but as per normal he ignored them.

KP was a great player but after the SA incident he should have been done - Morgan still blames Cook for him not playing again.


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## Dan2501 (Sep 7, 2018)

KP should never have been ditched the way he was, the door should never have been completely closed. Once he got over his achilles problems he was still one of the best One Day and T20 batsmen in the world, the fact we continued to avoid picking him out of spite was a joke - and that falls on Strauss, had nothing to do with Cook.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 7, 2018)

I accept my response was quite harsh but I suspect it would be the Aussie approach. Ultimately, people are saying Cook should be given a freebie for this Test. If he had not announced this then would he have been picked or would the selectors have tried to blood a new player? Most of us on here were saying that he should be replaced due to poor form yet now we should give him this game for emotional reasons. Harsh but professional.

Piers Morgan, KP - why listen to either. Both gobby, chippy and best ignored. Nothing will hurt either more than simply ignoring them.


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## TheDiablo (Sep 7, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I accept my response was quite harsh but I suspect it would be the Aussie approach. Ultimately, people are saying Cook should be given a freebie for this Test. If he had not announced this then would he have been picked or would the selectors have tried to blood a new player? Most of us on here were saying that he should be replaced due to poor form yet now we should give him this game for emotional reasons. Harsh but professional.

Piers Morgan, KP - why listen to either. Both gobby, chippy and best ignored. Nothing will hurt either more than simply ignoring them.
		
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Except that isn't the Aussie approach. Mcgrath, Warne, Ponting etc etc all announced retirement before test matches and rightfully were selected for their final tests. Not giving Cook a final test in a dead rubber with nobody knocking on the door to replace him would be an abberation imo. The man deserves a huge send off.

As for Morgan, my whole Twitter feed improved dramatically since I blocked any reference to him about 6 months ago. Between that and watching BBC Breakfast I literally forgot he exists, which is how life should be!


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## Dan2501 (Sep 7, 2018)

Jennings lack of foot-movement to the full delivery makes him horrendous to watch. He's looked like a walking wicket all series.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 7, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			Jennings lack of foot-movement to the full delivery makes him horrendous to watch. He's looked like a walking wicket all series.
		
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Totally agree. Some players have managed with minimal front foot movement but their eye is better and they hit through the ball. Jennings isn't going to cut it at this level unless he moves his front forward and that is such a big change to his technique that I struggle to see it happening. He is probably good enough for county cricket but not test level.


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## Dan2501 (Sep 7, 2018)

Problem he has in Test cricket is the bowlers are generally quicker but more importantly more disciplined with their lines and lengths than they are in County Cricket. So not only does he have less time to react, he is also constantly getting tested, there are few gimme balls in Test cricket so the pressure never gets released. It's like Gary Ballance, his technique just isn't suited to the Test level, he constantly looked like a walking wicket. Jennings might get a few runs in the winter where the quicks will only bowl for 10/15 overs before the spinners come on and where the pitches are a bit slower with less movement but I can't see him being successful in England, Australia, New Zealand or South Africa.


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## Junior (Sep 7, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			Problem he has in Test cricket is the bowlers are generally quicker but more importantly more disciplined with their lines and lengths than they are in County Cricket. So not only does he have less time to react, he is also constantly getting tested, there are few gimme balls in Test cricket so the pressure never gets released. It's like Gary Ballance, his technique just isn't suited to the Test level, he constantly looked like a walking wicket. Jennings might get a few runs in the winter where the quicks will only bowl for 10/15 overs before the spinners come on and where the pitches are a bit slower with less movement but I can't see him being successful in England, Australia, New Zealand or South Africa.
		
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Did you watch the lancs T20 quarter final?  It was like watching a different player.  The bowler was the NZ quick (Milne?) and he was cranking it up around mid ninetys..... Jennings stroked him all round the ground and played beautifully.  Made me think its more between the ears and the pressures of test cricket.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 7, 2018)

Junior said:



			Did you watch the lancs T20 quarter final?  It was like watching a different player.  The bowler was the NZ quick (Milne?) and he was cranking it up around mid ninetys..... Jennings stroked him all round the ground and played beautifully.  Made me think its more between the ears and the pressures of test cricket.
		
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Well I don't think that there's much between his ears.

Otherwise how could you explain today's dismissal.  Straightforward catching practice for leg slip.

Sorry but for once I would have to agree with KP when he said " Keaton Jennings! He can't play."

And yet it's now being suggested that he will be on the tour to Sri Lanka. 

Just shows how desperately short England is for top order batsmen.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 7, 2018)

Great knock from the chef and also Ali - Shame no one else really contributed. 250 would be a good score if they can get there


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 7, 2018)

Jennings needs a big score in the 2nd innings. He really doesn't look like he can cut it at this level on a regular basis and the footwork is flawed. The issue is with Cook going as well England need two openers and Sri Lanka and the West Indians will be tough places to make debuts. Who will come in? 

Great to see Cook get a final send off as he deserves it for his contribution to England. Great to see him make some runs and a shame he couldn't quite make it to the three figures. Another poor day overall with the bat again by England from a strong 133-1 and we need to try and eek a score of at least 250


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## Junior (Sep 7, 2018)

W


MetalMickie said:



			Well I don't think that there's much between his ears.

Otherwise how could you explain today's dismissal.  Straightforward catching practice for leg slip.

Sorry but for once I would have to agree with KP when he said " Keaton Jennings! He can't play."

And yet it's now being suggested that he will be on the tour to Sri Lanka.

Just shows how desperately short England is for top order batsmen.
		
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Who would you bring in mate....??? Burns and??


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 7, 2018)

Junior said:



			W


Who would you bring in mate....??? Burns and??
		
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Have seen Joe Denlys name mentioned a few times which if they give him a go I would hope Hildreath is added 

I think going to Sri Lanka itâ€™s going to be Burns , Jennings and either Stoneman or Denly.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 7, 2018)

MetalMickie said:



			Well I don't think that there's much between his ears.

Otherwise how could you explain today's dismissal.  Straightforward catching practice for leg slip.

Sorry but for once I would have to agree with KP when he said " Keaton Jennings! He can't play."

And yet it's now being suggested that he will be on the tour to Sri Lanka.

Just shows how desperately short England is for top order batsmen.
		
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Was listening to Geoff Boycott on test match special and he was pretty damming of Jennings overall performance this summer and this really soft dismissal. What will he do on the real turning pitches in Sri Lanka. He was also asking why Bairstow who is a keeper/batsman is ahead of Buttler and Ali is at number 3 when his average lower down the order is significantly better. Square pegs in round holes as he called it and he made some compelling points


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 7, 2018)

Junior said:



			W


Who would you bring in mate....??? Burns and??
		
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Therein lies the problem. I really hate not being constructive and feel that if I suggest Jennings is not good enough I should have an alternative .

However, I look round County  cricket and all I see are more and more one-day specialists. 

Burns is just the latest in a long line and should, at least, be given  a  chance. I truly hope he proves me wrong. 

But after him there doesn't appear to be anyone with  an outstanding claim. So perhaps we will have to stick with Jen


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## Dan2501 (Sep 8, 2018)

50 for Jos Buttler. Has impressed me this summer, didn't think he was a Test player but now has one century and four fifties this summer at an average of 52.44. Very impressive.


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## fundy (Sep 8, 2018)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Was listening to Geoff Boycott on test match special and he was pretty damming of Jennings overall performance this summer and this really soft dismissal. What will he do on the real turning pitches in Sri Lanka. He was also asking why Bairstow who is a keeper/batsman is ahead of Buttler and Ali is at number 3 when his average lower down the order is significantly better. Square pegs in round holes as he called it and he made some compelling points
		
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not sure Ali has really had that much of a shot batting at the top of the order bar an overseas series against Pakistan, and thats where hes batted most of his life esp in county cricket. yes he had some success counter attacking down the order and flogging tired attacks in tests but given the distinct lack of options to bat in the top 3 for me hes definitely worth considering, especially since we wont be having 2 lefties opening again

you can talk about square pegs in round holes but if your best 6 batters all ideally want to bat between 4 and 7 then there has to be some movement, and Ali who was a top order batter until England picked him as a spinner (and got a double hundred at 3 in the CC a couple of weeks ago) is by far the worst example of this going on (a keeper batting as a specialist batsman at 7 and a keeper batting at 4 or 5???)


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## fundy (Sep 8, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			50 for Jos Buttler. Has impressed me this summer, didn't think he was a Test player but now has one century and four fifties this summer at an average of 52.44. Very impressive.
		
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hes done well, albeit hidden down at 7 with license to counter attack, long term if he is to play just as a batter he has to take responsibility and bat a bit higher up and earlier in the innings 

best comment I just saw was that Buttler, picked for the test on IPL form is now likely not to be able to play anywhere near as much IPL cricket as he wont be released by England. Funny old game


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## Tongo (Sep 8, 2018)

England's problem is that they have too many players who can score runs when batting at 7 or 8 but look like walking wickets in the top 6. If Buttler remains in the team long-term he has to bat in the top 6. He should be at 6 and Stokes at 7. Otherwise judging both players is distorted. Batting outside of the top 6 doesnt come with the same inherent pressures or require the same mindset. I dont necessarily agree with what Boycott said in the last test about Bairstow batting at 7 but i'm also not convinced about Bairstow in test cricket full stop. He's been in the team for a while now but doesnt seem to be able to step up and become a senior player. 

For me Burns and Hildreth should have been in. But i wonder whether they are ignored as they aren't in the same mould as the likes of Buttler.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 8, 2018)

Bowlers have put England in control now but a great effort from the tail to get up to a solid total. I agree that Burns in particular deserves a run in the team. Whether he gets that remains to be seen but Tongo makes a good point and too Buttler like


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## fundy (Sep 8, 2018)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Bowlers have put England in control now but a great effort from the tail to get up to a solid total. *I agree that Burns in particular deserves a run in the team. *Whether he gets that remains to be seen but Tongo makes a good point and too Buttler like
		
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how many times have you seen burns bat in red ball cricket? Im gonna guess none?


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 8, 2018)

fundy said:



			how many times have you seen burns bat in red ball cricket? Im gonna guess none?
		
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So a county championship average of around 65, past 1000 runs for the season and a highest score of 194. Doesn't perform at all in red ball cricket https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/county-championship-division-one/averages


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## Captainron (Sep 8, 2018)

You best take very patient excellent players of spin. When went over there this year the pitches were taking big turn from ball 1. They opened with Herath and he ripped us apart.

Rashid and Ali will be on the plane


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## fundy (Sep 8, 2018)

HomerJSimpson said:



			So a county championship average of around 65, past 1000 runs for the season and a highest score of 194. Doesn't perform at all in red ball cricket https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/county-championship-division-one/averages

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Not sure what question youre answering but its not the one I posted and you have quoted! Or do you not want to answer that one as I got it right?

When did I say he didnt perform? Im actually a big fan at county level (I saw some of his 190 odd off Worcs) but pretty sure his technique will get found out at international level (as will almost all county cricketers). The fact the England selectors picked Pope to bat at 4 rather than him earlier in the summer implies theyve seen as much as you have of him batting in red ball cricket!


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 8, 2018)

fundy said:



			how many times have you seen burns bat in red ball cricket? Im gonna guess none?
		
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I haven't been to see Surrey this year but I have seen him play. Is that the answer to the question?


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## fundy (Sep 8, 2018)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I haven't been to see Surrey this year but I have seen him play. Is that the answer to the question?
		
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well no as the question was a how many times and most people would reply with a number lol

but you do do you Homie, keep that post count up


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 8, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			50 for Jos Buttler. Has impressed me this summer, *didn't think he was a Test player *but now has one century and four fifties this summer at an average of 52.44. Very impressive.
		
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You weren't the only one. There were a lot of people saying he shouldn't have been picked as he was a white ball player. Not a bad response from him to the doubters being the only England batsman (so far) to score over 300 runs in the series.


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## Tongo (Sep 9, 2018)

fundy said:



			Not sure what question youre answering but its not the one I posted and you have quoted! Or do you not want to answer that one as I got it right?

When did I say he didnt perform? Im actually a big fan at county level (I saw some of his 190 odd off Worcs) but pretty sure his technique will get found out at international level (as will almost all county cricketers). The fact the England selectors picked Pope to bat at 4 rather than him earlier in the summer implies theyve seen as much as you have of him batting in red ball cricket!
		
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Ramprakash, Hick and Vince all had / have excellent techniques but, for whatever reasons, couldn't / haven't translated that into runs at the highest level. In contrast players like Chanderpaul and Graeme Smith looked awkward, ungainly etc but enjoyed stellar careers. At international level its as much about the mental side of things as technique.


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## fundy (Sep 9, 2018)

Tongo said:



			Ramprakash, Hick and Vince all had / have excellent techniques but, for whatever reasons, couldn't / haven't translated that into runs at the highest level. In contrast players like Chanderpaul and Graeme Smith looked awkward, ungainly etc but enjoyed stellar careers. At international level its as much about the mental side of things as technique.
		
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Had the joy of playing with or against 2 of those 3 many years ago!!! 

Very much so but its also hard to know how any of them will fare until put under the spotlight. What wed give for a couple with the mentality of Smith or Chanders but thats just not the modern game or where its headed


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## Dan2501 (Sep 9, 2018)

Jennings' head has completely gone. He's a mess. Can't believe he's likely still going to be opening in Sri Lanka.


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## Dan2501 (Sep 10, 2018)

Just read the article on Cricinfo about Jennings. It is damning. Jennings is averaging 1.33 in the series with balls hitting the stumps. On debut he was dropped on nought. If that had been taken his career average would be 17 in 12 tests. He averages 17 in his last 10 tests. Most tests without a 50 for an English opener (10). Most innings without a 50 for an English opener (18). Can't bowl. Can't field. Carberry averaged 29 in the whitewash tour in 5 tests. 

An equally damning statistic is that Jennings failed to reach 50 in 20 successive innings after he was dropped by England in August 2017. Rory Burns was piling on the runs during that time (and now). He was recalled averaging 26.18 in first-class cricket since his previous test. Also:

Worst average for an opening batsman in his home country (18+ innings):

17.71 K JENNINGS in Eng
18.19 S Wettimuny in SL
20.54 Javed Omar in Ban
20.95 M Brearley in Eng
23.05 K Powell in WI
23.16 T Franklin in NZ

Can't see how we pick him for Sri Lanka. Will have to be two new openers. Burns and TBD.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 10, 2018)

Root is back at 4 and back to his old wonderful self. Maybe we need to go to county cricket and find the best night watchman there is. Burns seems to be getting the current vote for opener so have him and nightwatchman to open, block for 15-20 overs and then the rest of the team falls into place. Damn, why is the smilie button still not working.......


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## Dan2501 (Sep 10, 2018)

Cook passes Sangakkara to become the 5th leading run-scorer of all-time. Played Chef.


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## fundy (Sep 10, 2018)

Cook finishes with a ton and one helluva ovation for it


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## Dan2501 (Sep 10, 2018)

100 for Cook and what a bizarre way to get there. Amazing stuff, what a way to go out!


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## Wilson (Sep 10, 2018)

fundy said:



			Cook finishes with a ton and one helluva ovation for it
		
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My office is about 300yds from the Oval, I insisted on opening a window this morning, and there was no doubt as to when the ton came!


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## Wilson (Sep 10, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			100 for Cook and what a bizarre way to get there. Amazing stuff, what a way to go out!
		
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Not the first century he's reached with overthrows, it happened before at the Oval when he defended a ball back to the bowler, who then threw it over the wicketkeeper's head for a boundary!


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## fundy (Sep 10, 2018)

Wilson said:



			My office is about 300yds from the Oval, I insisted on opening a window this morning, and there was no doubt as to when the ton came!
		
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sitting here regretting having not headed down there today, not sure I could be in an office that close!!!


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 10, 2018)

I'm following the cricket via the BBC website. Is the pitch totally flat or are the Indians ground down? A lead of 400 should be plenty unless the pitch has become a flat road. I can't work out which it is from the website.


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## Dan2501 (Sep 10, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm following the cricket via the BBC website. Is the pitch totally flat or are the Indians ground down? A lead of 400 should be plenty unless the pitch has become a flat road. I can't work out which it is from the website.
		
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Listening to TMS - seems as though the Indians have all but given up.


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## fundy (Sep 10, 2018)

Indians are shot, Sharmas off the pitch and the rest showing signs of a long series. Pitch is flat in the main but starting to get a bit dry and the odd one is grabbing

Root and now Cook both gone

Well batted Cookie


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## IanM (Sep 10, 2018)

Why are we still batting?


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 10, 2018)

Root either wants 400 or to bat until tea. Cricketers like landmarks or milestones before declaring.


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 10, 2018)

Why not have a healthy lead, and give his bowlers a total that allows them to attack?
I can see why he's contiued to bat, and would imagine we will bat some more and give them a sticky time tonight once he has that figure he wants.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 10, 2018)

Personally I'd go a maximum of 30 minutes after tea. Mess with the Indian batsmens head a little, drain the energy a little further. Don't see the point of going on too much further after that.


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## Piece (Sep 10, 2018)

I've been watching today and the pitch is flat, the ball isn't swinging much and the Indians are a bowler down. Throw the bat, run them even more ragged and getting them in at 5ish.


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## IanM (Sep 10, 2018)

Series already won, lead was approach 400.... as an old cricketer I'd be wanting them in so I could start the party earlier tomorrow!


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## Dan2501 (Sep 10, 2018)

Not really sure why we're still batting when the lead is over 400. Get 'em in and let Jimmy run in at them.


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 10, 2018)

Think thats about right now.Its given the Indians a testing time to get through this evening, before tomorrow.


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## Dan2501 (Sep 10, 2018)

Jimmy now has a chance to break McGrath's record tonight. Come on Jim!


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 10, 2018)

If it carries on like this tonight, there wont be a need for a fifth day


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## Dan2501 (Sep 10, 2018)

Jimmy ties McGrath. 1 more to be the leading wicket taking seam bowler of all time. What a day!


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## fundy (Sep 10, 2018)

Broad and Andersen are now just 4 short of a combined 1000 test wickets between them! England are going to miss Cooks rns for sure, and its only gonna get worse for Root in a couple of years when these 2 finally are done too. Be nice for Andersen to go past McGrath and them to get to 1000 in this test


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 10, 2018)

Fantastic to see Cook get a bookend century to top off the one on debut. Good point about Broad and Anderson and one I've mentioned. For me they will be a far bigger loss and not sure we have anyone of their ilk at this moment ready to come through or be given a chance


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 10, 2018)

Brilliant way to bow out - Cricket Legend is there with the best 

Well done Chef - see you around Morrisonâ€™s and enjoy a nice easy time at Essex


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## patricks148 (Sep 11, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			Not really sure why we're still batting when the lead is over 400. Get 'em in and let Jimmy run in at them.
		
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so the bowlers will at least once this year know what it felt like to have 400 on the board


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## Piece (Sep 11, 2018)

Very nice recovery from India. Were 2-3 and now motoring at 290 odd for 5. Fifth day pitch and the leggy needs to step up...hmmmm


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## fundy (Sep 11, 2018)

bit harsh expecting the leggy to step when the skippers bowling himself ahead of him! just shows how awful a selection hes been all summer. feels like were waiting for the new ball after tea now


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## fundy (Sep 11, 2018)

if they get much closer here, Roots gonna want 550 in future before declaring too!!!!


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## Paperboy (Sep 11, 2018)

fundy said:



			bit harsh expecting the leggy to step when the skippers bowling himself ahead of him! just shows how awful a selection hes been all summer. feels like were waiting for the new ball after tea now
		
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At the Rose Bowl, me and my mate where saying Root obviously doesn't trust Rashid and as you said a waste of a selection.


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## Piece (Sep 11, 2018)

Getting interesting now...!


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## fundy (Sep 11, 2018)

Not wanted to bowl Rashid all series, now he wants to bowl him when the new ball is available


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## fundy (Sep 11, 2018)

Seems a reasonable decision based on that nut lol


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## Piece (Sep 11, 2018)

Turning sideways! I want to bowl!!


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## Dan2501 (Sep 11, 2018)

That was a beauty from Rashid. Turned square!


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## fundy (Sep 11, 2018)

well they made hard work of that but cracking viewing, really been an excellent series and great to see Jimmy go past McGrath

have to feel 4-1 flatters England greatly, definitely very harsh on Kohli and the Indian seamers. have to remember england won every toss too!


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## Piece (Sep 11, 2018)

agreed that 4-1 flattered England a bit. But however the quality and the competitiveness of the cricket was great to see. Also it was the right line between aggression and sportsmanship. None of the Aussie shenanigans on show thankfully.


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## fundy (Sep 11, 2018)

Piece said:



			agreed that 4-1 flattered England a bit. But however the quality and the competitiveness of the cricket was great to see. *Also it was the right line between aggression and sportsmanship*. None of the Aussie shenanigans on show thankfully.
		
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Indeed, Kohli often criticised for his attitude but has clearly grown, not only as a batter and is a credit to the game, happily watch him bat time after time. Showed his class this summer in differing ways


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## Piece (Sep 11, 2018)

fundy said:



			Indeed, Kohli often criticised for his attitude but has clearly grown, not only as a batter and is a credit to the game, happily watch him bat time after time. Showed his class this summer in differing ways
		
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Agreed.

<drops mic>


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 11, 2018)

Perhaps a little closer than it should have been. Fantastic to see Anderson get the record, a great finale for Cook. Also well done to the Indian wicketkeeper who became the first keeper to score a century in England for a touring Indian team. Interesting to see who gets the nod this winter


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## Dan2501 (Sep 13, 2018)

Burns following his 122 in the first innings against Worcestershire with an unbeaten 50 so far in the 2nd innings. Pretty remarkable that the only opener guaranteed a spot in Sri Lanka is a bloke who's never played a Test before.

Interestingly Stoneman is unbeaten on 50* alongside Burns. Does he get another go? What other options are there? I'm thinking the options are:

Burns
Jennings
Stoneman
Moeen
Bell

Anyone else even in the conversation? I've seen Aggers suggesting Woakes but that would be a bit of a desperation pick I feel.


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## patricks148 (Sep 13, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			Burns following his 122 in the first innings against Worcestershire with an unbeaten 50 so far in the 2nd innings. Pretty remarkable that the only opener guaranteed a spot in Sri Lanka is a bloke who's never played a Test before.

Interestingly Stoneman is unbeaten on 50* alongside Burns. Does he get another go?
		
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Burns should get a go, no question.

I'd also like to see what the selectors ect see in Jennings that makes them thing he will come good??/

looks more a walking wicket than Gary Ballance, at least it took a while for all the other teams a while to work out Ballance, Jennings was his 2nd test onwards.


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## Dan2501 (Sep 13, 2018)

Just seen Stoneman's averaging 26 this year. Tough to pick him really. 

Looking at the Telegraph website - their writers are picking:

Vince and Livingstone
Burns and Gubbins
Burns and Jennings
Burns and Ali
Hameed and Burns

Livingstone scored 2 hundreds for England Lions in Sri Lanka last year apparently but is averaging a paltry 17.83 this season. Gubbins is averaging 33.54 and Hameed is averaging 9.7. Not easy picking 2 openers right now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 13, 2018)

Joe Denly should go along with Burns and I suspect they will give Jennings an away series 

As for the slots below - Ali obviously will go and I think they will go with Vince

They should give someone like Abell , Livingstone a go but think both will be on the A tour 

The other players going will be Overton and Porter with Broad given a rest on one tour and Anderson the other 

Leach should go and possibly Bess 

The touring party imo will be 

Burns
Denly
Jennings
Ali
Vince
Root
Bairstow 
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
J Overton
Curran
Leach
Anderson/Broad
Bess/Rashid


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## Dan2501 (Sep 13, 2018)

Denly doesn't open for Kent anymore, bats 3 or 4 and he's hardly shooting the lights out either - averaging 36.6 in Div 2. Really is worrying how little options there are around the counties. I'd rather we threw Bell, Hildreth or Vince up top ahead of someone like Denly.


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## TheDiablo (Sep 13, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Joe Denly should go along with Burns and I suspect they will give Jennings an away series

As for the slots below - Ali obviously will go and I think they will go with Vince

They should give someone like Abell , Livingstone a go but think both will be on the A tour

The other players going will be Overton and Porter with Broad given a rest on one tour and Anderson the other

Leach should go and possibly Bess

The touring party imo will be

Burns
Denly
Jennings
Ali
Vince
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
J Overton
Curran
Leach
Anderson/Broad
Bess/Rashid
		
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I think Stone will go ahead of Porter, they will want Porter to get through a lot of reps on the A tour and see how his fitness stands up as opposed to being water carrier Would be very surprised to see Bess go. Agree with all the batsmen, although you may have 1 more than they will take in there. That spot is between Jennings and Denly I think.

It's unbelievable that Burns is seemingly not rated by the selectors. They'll take him because they absolutely have to, but by all accounts aren't a fan of his technique - it's as if weight of runs over 5 years is less important than technique! And all this at a time when our greatest run scorer has just retired - a batsmen with a limited and somewhat unorthodox style!


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## Dan2501 (Sep 13, 2018)

Right - I've finally decided. My team for Sri Lanka is:

Burns
Vince
Hildreth
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Moeen
Curran
Anderson
Leach

Then I'm filling out the squad with - Pope, Woakes, Foakes, Overton and Rashid.


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## Deleted member 3432 (Sep 13, 2018)

Looking at some of the names suggested I fear that we are going to be 20-3 rather than the 30-3 we have become used to.

I don't understand how middle order batsmen with modest career records can be expected to succeed as test openers.

Burns is obviously next cab on the rank, names in the hat after that.

Root not interested in taking one for the team since he has opened for England before?


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## patricks148 (Sep 13, 2018)

saving_par said:



			Looking at some of the names suggested I fear that we are going to be 20-3 rather than the 30-3 we have become used to.

I don't understand how middle order batsmen with modest career records can be expected to succeed as test openers.

Burns is obviously next cab on the rank, names in the hat after that.

Root not interested in taking one for the team since he has opened for England before?
		
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i know he has had great results at 4, but like you say Root was an opener at the start and was desperate to open when he first came into the side


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## fundy (Sep 13, 2018)

Surrey win the county champs div 1 after a cracking game against Worcs. Hard to argue they havent deserved it, fitting that Morkel in at the death, been a massive signing and part of their success


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 13, 2018)

Burns definitely deserves a go in the England set up based purely on his runs scored as opener this season. Heard it said that runs are an openers currency and he certainly has a lot in the bank


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## Dan2501 (Sep 14, 2018)

How do we rate Daryl Mitchell as an option to open? 3 FC centuries this season, only 4 men with more Div 1 runs, experienced campaigner with almost 12,500 FC runs at 40.


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## fundy (Sep 14, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			How do we rate Daryl Mitchell as an option to open? 3 FC centuries this season, only 4 men with more Div 1 runs, experienced campaigner with almost 12,500 FC runs at 40.
		
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shows just how empty the cupboard is when the likes of Mitchell and Denly are being mentioned as feasible options

Mitchell is mid 30s feels like hes been around forever without ever setting the world on fire, good solid county pro but no more for me, can be a bit boom or bust (lots of little scores amidst the tons)


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## Junior (Sep 14, 2018)

Cupboard is certainly bare.  Burns and Jennings will be the likely candidates to open.   Jennings was actually scoring well in Div 1 before the tests but he seems to struggle to make the step up.  As there is no one else, then the selectors will probably give him another go.    Vince has the 2nd highest amount of runs in Div 1 so more than likely he'll get the nod.    Hildreth isn't far behind and on a turning Somerset wicket, I think the selectors would be crazy to overlook him for this squad.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 14, 2018)

Junior said:



			Cupboard is certainly bare.  Burns and Jennings will be the likely candidates to open.   Jennings was actually scoring well in Div 1 before the tests but he seems to struggle to make the step up.  As there is no one else, then the selectors will probably give him another go.    Vince has the 2nd highest amount of runs in Div 1 so more than likely he'll get the nod.    Hildreth isn't far behind and on a turning Somerset wicket, I think the selectors would be crazy to overlook him for this squad.
		
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I think Hildreaths time has gone unfortunately- shame as he is superb player but happy that he will be around for Somerset 

The two players that should imo at least get a Lion call up are Abell and Gregory , unfortunately for Gregory he is another number 7 bat plus good bowler but Abell imo can be a very good 4/5


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 14, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Abell imo can be a very good 4/5
		
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The problem for him then is that we have more than enough players who can bat in that position. The problem is 1-3. We don't need any more 4-5.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 14, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The problem for him then is that we have more than enough players who can bat in that position. The problem is 1-3. We don't need any more 4-5.
		
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He can open as well - played a couple season opening with Bangers , this season he dropped down a few spaces because of Renshaw , Ali arriving


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## fundy (Sep 15, 2018)

Moeen > Buttler   

Stunning spell the basis or Worcs win in the first semi, whilst Jennings is sat at the other end going at just over run a ball until the games already over. Not sure I understand Lancs batting order at all, didnt play to their strengths at all (send in a pinch hitter rather than one of the most destructive T20 batters around on a pitch that will deteriorate)


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## fundy (Sep 15, 2018)

Worcs with the T20 blast, Ali and Cox utterly superb with the bat as was Ali and Brown with the ball


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 15, 2018)

Cox was huge in both games. Possible England keeper/batsmen for the future?


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## fundy (Sep 15, 2018)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Cox was huge in both games. Possible England keeper/batsmen for the future?
		
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Cox is a decent player but a very long way down the keeper/batter list, comfortably the area we are strongest!

Buttler, Bairstow, Foakes, Billings all comfortably ahead of him


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 15, 2018)

fundy said:



			Worcs with the T20 blast, Ali and Cox utterly superb with the bat as was Ali and Brown with the ball
		
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Chuffed for them - we blew it earlier in the day with Wright just putting Overton and a few others all over the park. Great day for Ali


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 15, 2018)

fundy said:



			Cox is a decent player but a very long way down the keeper/batter list, comfortably the area we are strongest!

Buttler, Bairstow, Foakes, Billings all comfortably ahead of him
		
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Totally agree its an area we are spoilt in but not sure (in my own opinion) that Foakes will get a look in


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## fundy (Sep 15, 2018)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Totally agree its an area we are spoilt in but not sure (in my own opinion) that Foakes will get a look in
		
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fair few very good judges of player i know who think he could be the best of the bunch! Buttler and Bairstow going to be hard to break through but its likely to be Foakes if any of them. Only 25, averages over 40 in 1st class cricket. Billings had a rough time of it, seems to have been carrying drinks for best part of 2 years, also hugely talented. Pope not a bad keeper either for a lad England have already picked as a batter!


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