# Jordainian Pilot Burned Alive!!!!!!



## Fish (Feb 3, 2015)

The most disgusting thing I've ever heard of, murdered in this way is beyond anything I can comprehend.

Laws need to be fast tracked and put in place that ANYONE who leaves the UK to train or fight for these terrorist can not return, period!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rrifying-murder-captured-Jordanian-pilot.html


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## scottbrown (Feb 3, 2015)

Fish said:



			The most disgusting thing I've ever heard of, murdered in this way is beyond anything I can comprehend.

Laws need to be fast tracked and put in place that ANYONE who leaves the UK to train or fight for these terrorist can not return, period!



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rrifying-murder-captured-Jordanian-pilot.html

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Agreed - only difference being my laws would probably go further. An eye for an eye an all that .....


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## Fish (Feb 3, 2015)

scottbrown said:



			Agreed - only difference being my laws would probably go further. An eye for an eye an all that .....
		
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Well if its deemed as treason, don't we still have capitol punishment in place, if so, use it!


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## JCW (Feb 3, 2015)

Fish said:



			The most disgusting thing I've ever heard of, murdered in this way is beyond anything I can comprehend.

Laws need to be fast tracked and put in place that ANYONE who leaves the UK to train or fight for these terrorist can not return, period!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rrifying-murder-captured-Jordanian-pilot.html

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There have been some very cruel things done and my mum who is 88 talks about WW2 and what the japs done and this is far worst , I hope this is some kind of made up video , if not then there are no words i can say but the time has come for tougher action against people who do this and join to fight in this sort of group . we can no longer respect the human rights of people who do this because they respect no ones rights


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## SocketRocket (Feb 3, 2015)

What are the UN doing about this, it shouldn't be for coalitions to deal with these primitive murderers.  About time the UN put a force together that could sweep these people away.

Somehow I dont believe that toothless organisation will do anything though and the likes of China and Russia will play their disgusting political games with the situation.


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## Old Skier (Feb 3, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Somehow I dont believe that toothless organisation will do anything though and the likes of China and Russia will play their disgusting political games with the situation.
		
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Hopefully they have now crossed the threshold and China and Russia will now stop playing their political games. Major Islamic States are also now to step up to the plate.


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## Old Skier (Feb 3, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			What are the UN doing about this, it shouldn't be for coalitions to deal with these primitive murderers.  About time the UN put a force together that could sweep these people away.
		
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Russia have vetoed every move and China have abstained. The UN are unable to do anything while they play there little game.


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## Imurg (Feb 3, 2015)

I've said it before and I'll say it again..
The whole Islamic religion needs to throw their collective weight behind the battle against these people who are committing these atrocities in the name of their religion - and dragging the rest of Islam with it.
Without that this war will continue.....


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## Hobbit (Feb 3, 2015)

Doing this to a westerner would lead to a certain type of reaction. Doing it to a Jordanian.... Jordan have said they will execute every prisoner they hold who has links with IS. I hope that was a bluff!!


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## Rumpokid (Feb 3, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Hopefully they have now crossed the threshold and China and Russia will now stop playing their political games. Major Islamic States are also now to step up to the plate.
		
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Old Skier, i guess you know more than most about this stuff looking at your avatar?


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## SocketRocket (Feb 3, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			Doing this to a westerner would lead to a certain type of reaction. Doing it to a Jordanian.... Jordan have said they will execute every prisoner they hold who has links with IS. I hope that was a bluff!!
		
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Maybe they can have some of ours.


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## Mark1751 (Feb 3, 2015)

Think this is sickening and many media organisations are not detailing exactly what's happened as its so repulsive, but do you think it's time to stop reporting what they are doing and stop showing pictures of them throwing people of buildings and just before they execute people? Would this help stop it or would social media (Twitter) still allow people to follow what's happening?


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## SocketRocket (Feb 3, 2015)

Mark1751 said:



			Think this is sickening and many media organisations are not detailing exactly what's happened as its so repulsive, but do you think it's time to stop reporting what they are doing and stop showing pictures of them throwing people of buildings and just before they execute people? Would this help stop it or would social media (Twitter) still allow people to follow what's happening?
		
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If it happens we should know about it.


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## Old Skier (Feb 3, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			If it happens we should know about it.
		
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Agreed to a certain extent but they do get more air time than is necessary and that's exactly what they want.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2015)

Imurg said:



			I've said it before and I'll say it again..
The whole Islamic religion needs to throw their collective weight behind the battle against these people who are committing these atrocities in the name of their religion - and dragging the rest of Islam with it.
Without that this war will continue.....
		
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yep - everyone needs to stand up to them 

At the moment a lot of people are very quiet


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 3, 2015)

Imurg said:



			I've said it before and I'll say it again..
The whole Islamic religion needs to throw their collective weight behind the battle against these people who are committing these atrocities in the name of their religion - and dragging the rest of Islam with it.
Without that this war will continue.....
		
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I agree totally but can you really see that happening. Surely too many own agendas to be played out to make that work.


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## Mark1751 (Feb 3, 2015)

I understand if it happens it should be reported but do we need the graphic pictures that you see on the daily mail website? (As an example) I think by limiting the amount of graphic pictures maybe it could help. I don't appreciate seeing the before and after images of a man being thrown to his death from a rooftop but some will and may see it and want to join up? I don't think that there is a right answer with this.


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## Old Skier (Feb 3, 2015)




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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2015)

Apart from being horrified with what they've done, another thing that pisses me off is newspapers blurred the front cover of the french mag so as not to show the cartoon and upset people, but yet they'll show images of the pilot about to be murdered!


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## hovis (Feb 3, 2015)

My friend is a army sniper.  He told me when he shoots these brain washed morons he gets hit with a wave of satisfaction.  I did think this was pretty sick and twisted but I'm starting to see the appeal.


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## scottbrown (Feb 3, 2015)

Just been reading that Jordan have moved the prisoners that they hold linked to IS to a prison that is used for executions. 

Let's hope other countries (including UK ) follow suit with genuine action against IS.


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## stevelev (Feb 3, 2015)

It needs boots on the ground from a major coalition. But the UN will not allow it yet, not sure why when they have allowed troop into other conflict zones.

Sad aswell I for one would volunteer my services to my country to take part in the fight against this to provide safety for future generations. The sad thing is I tried to re-enlist but due to a mistake at a party over 19 years ago. I'm not allowed to serve. I even appealed the decision but to no avail.  And here our country is struggling to meet recruitment targets.  Ludicrous.

But over here we need to deport not house these jihadists. But accidentally sink every plane transporting them en-route. Un-piloted flights better to have them drown and suffer than a short peaceful death for how they turn against the society that has offered them a peaceful democratic existence.


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## palindromicbob (Feb 3, 2015)

stevelev said:



			It needs boots on the ground from a major coalition. But the UN will not allow it yet, not sure why when they have allowed troop into other conflict zones.

Sad aswell I for one would volunteer my services to my country to take part in the fight against this to provide safety for future generations. The sad thing is I tried to re-enlist but due to a mistake at a party over 19 years ago. I'm not allowed to serve. I even appealed the decision but to no avail.  And here our country is struggling to meet recruitment targets.  Ludicrous.

But over here we need to deport not house these jihadists. But accidentally sink every plane transporting them en-route. Un-piloted flights better to have them drown and suffer than a short peaceful death for how they turn against the society that has offered them a peaceful democratic existence.
		
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 Could just set the flight path over Ukraine and let the Russians get theirs hands dirty.


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## JustOne (Feb 4, 2015)

Mark1751 said:



			I understand if it happens it should be reported but do we need the graphic pictures that you see on the daily mail website? (As an example) I think by limiting the amount of graphic pictures maybe it could help. I don't appreciate seeing the before and after images of a man being thrown to his death from a rooftop but some will and may see it and want to join up? I don't think that there is a right answer with this.
		
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I was thinking the same however concluded that they are showing the pictures to MAKE US demand a response which in a way is what people are demanding - so it's kinda working (people are controlled by the media don't you know). If they didn't show it then we might not really give a stuff.

I find the pictures disgusting, I have seen things I'd quite like to 'unsee', and certainly wouldn't want my kids reading about this kind of stuff right now.... I appreciate it's the world we live in but some of this stuff really is mankinds lowest of low.


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## Old Skier (Feb 4, 2015)

hovis said:



			My friend is a army sniper.  He told me when he shoots these brain washed morons he gets hit with a wave of satisfaction.  I did think this was pretty sick and twisted but I'm starting to see the appeal.
		
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your mate needs some serious help, or


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## chrisd (Feb 4, 2015)

The world knows where IS strongholds are, we need to give them a warning to disband and if they don't, the whole UN community should join forces and eradicate them!

Harsh, but the civilised world can't let the atrocities they commit go on


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## Fyldewhite (Feb 4, 2015)

Sickening barbarity. The main issue for me is that we are dealing with a medieval culture with medieval values, religious oppression and unfortunately, medieval shock punishments. What next? drawing and quartering? We in the west are on the whole above this. We used to be just the same but have moved on mostly due to democracy and education. In the west we re-create barbarity now for entertainment (Game of Thrones etc) but in the middle east it's often still very real. Talk of an eye for an eye etc is just a retrograde step. Will the executions this morning in Jordan improve things? I think not. Troops on the ground won't work. It gives the militants traction with the people they seek to oppress and for every fighter eliminated another ten will be growing up hating the west for waging war on Islam. The only solution will be an Arab/Muslim solution and may (as has been said this week) take generations......but it will happen as eventually the people will make it happen. Those who criticise overseas aid should look carefully at what proper schools, education and training can do in these countries. That's where our investment should be rather than pouring millions (billions?) into failed military campaigns.


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## IanG (Feb 4, 2015)

Fyldewhite said:



			Sickening barbarity. The main issue for me is that we are dealing with a medieval culture with medieval values, religious oppression and unfortunately, medieval shock punishments. What next? drawing and quartering? We in the west are on the whole above this. We used to be just the same but have moved on mostly due to democracy and education. In the west we re-create barbarity now for entertainment (Game of Thrones etc) but in the middle east it's often still very real. Talk of an eye for an eye etc is just a retrograde step. Will the executions this morning in Jordan improve things? I think not. Troops on the ground won't work. It gives the militants traction with the people they seek to oppress and for every fighter eliminated another ten will be growing up hating the west for waging war on Islam. The only solution will be an Arab/Muslim solution and may (as has been said this week) take generations......but it will happen as eventually the people will make it happen. Those who criticise overseas aid should look carefully at what proper schools, education and training can do in these countries. That's where our investment should be rather than pouring millions (billions?) into failed military campaigns.
		
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Unfortunately for the Middle East in particular and for the rest of the world who are caught up in their spasms you are dead right (IMHO). 

Nothing we do will fix this in 10 years, good schools and education might fix it in 50. Tragic really


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## Old Skier (Feb 4, 2015)

chrisd said:



			The world knows where IS strongholds are, we need to give them a warning to disband and if they don't, the whole UN community should join forces and eradicate them!

Harsh, but the civilised world can't let the atrocities they commit go on
		
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If you think the UN are strong enough to do this you'll have to think again. The best thing that happened in Bosnia was when we threw away the blue berets and went back to being NATO forces.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2015)

Jordan have executed two ISIS prisoners


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## bluewolf (Feb 4, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Jordan have executed two ISIS prisoners
		
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Because the best way to prove your moral superiority is to stoop to the level of the gutter filth you're fighting..........


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## lobthewedge (Feb 4, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			Because the best way to prove your moral superiority is to stoop to the level of the gutter filth you're fighting..........
		
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I dont think the Jordanian executioners will lose any sleep about anyone questioning their morals.


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## hovis (Feb 4, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			Because the best way to prove your moral superiority is to stoop to the level of the gutter filth you're fighting..........
		
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Morals dont even enter the minds of these idiots so good on the Jordan crew


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## JustOne (Feb 4, 2015)

Purely out of 'moral conscience'....

A fighter plane goes over your house, drops a bomb which incinerates your 3 children, you hear them screaming just before the house collapses on them.... you then capture the pilot of said plane.... then what?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2015)

I wouldn't ruin the memory of my family throwing my morals away by dropping to their level - would hand him to the authorities and let the law that I abide by deal with him.


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## c1973 (Feb 4, 2015)

JustOne said:



			Purely out of 'moral conscience'....

A fighter plane goes over your house, drops a bomb which incinerates your 3 children, you hear them screaming just before the house collapses on them.... you then capture the pilot of said plane.... then what?
		
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The instinctive side of me would say he wouldn't make it to any cage, I'd beat him to death there and then. But, the reasoned side of me would say hand him to authorities........after I'd beaten him unconscious!

I seriously doubt anyone could give an honest answer without being in that position though.


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## JustOne (Feb 4, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I wouldn't ruin the memory of my family throwing my morals away by dropping to their level - would hand him to the authorities and let the law that I abide by deal with him.
		
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Fair reply... so the film I saw where Arnold Swarzenegger's wife and child were killed and he went after the people that did it (taking out at least 50 on the way) was morally wrong?


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## JustOne (Feb 4, 2015)

c1973 said:



			The instinctive side of me would say he wouldn't make it to any cage, I'd beat him to death there and then.
		
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I was thinking the same... wild horses wouldn't stop me..... unless I could somehow stop myself.




c1973 said:



			I seriously doubt anyone could give an honest answer without being in that position though.
		
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I couldn't agree more, so how about those on the 'front line' that are in the position of being bombed by Jordanian planes? I am not seeking to justify anything here, ALL WAR is barbaric in my opinion.


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## Fyldewhite (Feb 4, 2015)

JustOne said:



			Purely out of 'moral conscience'....

A fighter plane goes over your house, drops a bomb which incinerates your 3 children, you hear them screaming just before the house collapses on them.... you then capture the pilot of said plane.... then what?
		
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A hypothetical situation of course but remember that this is quite possibly what the Jordanian pilot was doing before he was captured. If I kicked your guy to death is that really better than setting him on fire? (I know it's not the same scenario but you get my point). Like I said above, an eye for an eye is rarely the best way in the big picture. Yes, at an individual vengeance level it gives closure but the rule of law is what really we all stand and fight for.


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## JustOne (Feb 4, 2015)

Fyldewhite said:



			Yes, at an individual vengeance level it gives closure but the rule of law is what really we all stand and fight for.
		
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Absolutely, if you happen to live somewhere that has some kind of democratic law then the 'goal' would be to stand by it, if you happen to live in a practical war zone then i don't know what would necessarily stop you (so to speak). 

There was a question posed (I can't remember by whom) pertaining to what would you do if you were the parent of one of the kids murdered by Fred West (or some other pedo) and you got your hands on him? The 'mob' would cry out AT LEAST to have him castrated in the street if not we should bring back hanging and do that to him instead.... but isn't that the BRITISH mob calling for 'an eye for an eye' which (as you say) is wrong?


(nb: just trying to get my OWN head around my own thoughts so not having a pop at ANYONE at all).


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## lobthewedge (Feb 4, 2015)

I think most would agree that ISIS need to be stopped in their tracks, and preferably wiped off the face of the earth.  These people are savages, intent on mass murder and need to be stopped before the cancer spreads any further.

It then comes down to who does the stopping, be that the UN, NATO, an Arab Coalition, who knows??

One thing is sure.  Whoever does the stopping will only succeed if they carry out terrible acts of their own, thats what it is to be at war and unfortunately this is the only language these animals understand.  To my mind they are a different type of enemy, no hearts or minds to be won over with them, and certainly no negotiating table that they can be brought to.


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## hovis (Feb 4, 2015)

lobthewedge said:



			I think most would agree that ISIS need to be stopped in their tracks, and preferably wiped off the face of the earth.  These people are savages, intent on mass murder and need to be stopped before the cancer spreads any further.

It then comes down to who does the stopping, be that the UN, NATO, an Arab Coalition, who knows??

One thing is sure.  Whoever does the stopping will only succeed if they carry out terrible acts of their own, thats what it is to be at war and unfortunately this is the only language these animals understand.  To my mind they are a different type of enemy, no hearts or minds to be won over with them, and certainly no negotiating table that they can be brought to.
		
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I'd go with what he said


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## Old Skier (Feb 4, 2015)

lobthewedge said:



			To my mind they are a different type of enemy, no hearts or minds to be won over with them, and certainly no negotiating table that they can be brought to.
		
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With the 1000s flocking to ISIS perhaps hearts and minds needs to be very high on any agenda.

Unfortunatly unless they are wiped of the face of the Earth the only way you can bring about any resolution is by negotiation.


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## lobthewedge (Feb 4, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			With the 1000s flocking to ISIS perhaps hearts and minds needs to be very high on any agenda.

Unfortunatly unless they are wiped of the face of the Earth the only way you can bring about any resolution is by negotiation.
		
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I believe the Jordanians were trying to negotiate a prisoner swap with them, even though they seem to have murdered the pilot weeks ago. 

Like I said earlier, I don't see there being any middle ground with these animals, they are in it to the death, and whatever coalition finally stands up to seriously tackle them should be prepared for that.


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## Old Skier (Feb 4, 2015)

The Arab mindset is nothing like yours or mine and what we might consider brutal murder most probably won't make many living in the Middle East blink hence the reprisal and hanging of someone who had nothing to do with ISIS. They are countries led by brutal regimes.

It was not that long ago that a nation in Europe was as brutal as ISIS and responsible for a lot more deaths.


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## lobthewedge (Feb 4, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			The Arab mindset is nothing like yours or mine and what we might consider brutal murder most probably won't make many living in the Middle East blink hence the reprisal and hanging of someone who had nothing to do with ISIS. They are countries led by brutal regimes.

It was not that long ago that a nation in Europe was as brutal as ISIS and responsible for a lot more deaths.
		
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Diplomacy didn't work too well with them either!

Edit - the woman that the Jordanians hung was linked to Isis, in that they named her as part of the prisoner swap with the Japanese prisoner.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2015)

I would say that lets not be generic in regards Arabs etc - lets not lump them all together.


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## Old Skier (Feb 4, 2015)

lobthewedge said:



			Edit - the woman that the Jordanians hung was linked to Isis, in that they named her as part of the prisoner swap with the Japanese prisoner.
		
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Agreed but she's been in the nick for a decade, long before ISIS came into being.


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## lobthewedge (Feb 4, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Agreed but she's been in the nick for a decade, long before ISIS came into being.
		
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Really, she was banged up for 10 years?  Not too bad an innings considering she was intent on suicide!


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## c1973 (Feb 4, 2015)

I had to laugh when the news reporter said that she had been involved in _several_ suicide bombings........obviously not very good at it then is she.


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## lobthewedge (Feb 4, 2015)

c1973 said:



			I had to laugh when the news reporter said that she had been involved in _several_ suicide bombings........obviously not very good at it then is she.
		
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I know the guys get however many virgins once they get to paradise, just wonder what she was lined up for?


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## c1973 (Feb 4, 2015)

lobthewedge said:



			I know the guys get however many virgins once they get to paradise, just wonder what she was lined up for?
		
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Cooking and cleaning  I'd imagine.


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## lobthewedge (Feb 4, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Cooking and cleaning  I'd imagine. 

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Never pictured paradise with Henry the Hoover in it.


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## palindromicbob (Feb 4, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Agreed but she's been in the nick for a decade, long before ISIS came into being.
		
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ISIS/ISIL/ISI have been around in some guise or another for a very long time.  It's simply one of many heads representing a destructive ideology that tries to justify it's self under the banner of a long standing and world wide religion. The names change and they don't follow the IRA naming convention but to think that ISIS are only a recent thing is to massively underestimate them.


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## Old Skier (Feb 5, 2015)

palindromicbob said:



			ISIS/ISIL/ISI have been around in some guise or another for a very long time.  It's simply one of many heads representing a destructive ideology that tries to justify it's self under the banner of a long standing and world wide religion. The names change and they don't follow the IRA naming convention but to think that ISIS are only a recent thing is to massively underestimate them.
		
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This is were things get very complicated when dealing with all the variouse factions - she was apparently Al Qaeda - a faction who hate ISIS/ISIL/ISI.  Arab tribalism is far more complicated than that north of Hadrians Wall .


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## Fish (Feb 5, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			This is were things get very complicated when dealing with all the variouse factions - she was apparently Al Qaeda - a faction who hate ISIS/ISIL/ISI.  Arab tribalism is far more complicated than that north of Hadrians Wall .
		
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It is but I was in the middle of many situations when the IRA were killing INLA (and visa-versa) and also the flip side with UFF, UVF and UDA killing each other, all for greater power and control. There will always be various factions, some will be more well known than others but the splinter groups can be just as dangerous but not as actively known as there acts are not as often or reported.

Not sure why IS wanted her TBH, but as you state, she was known to be more on the side of Al Qaeda, maybe they had something special lined up for her?


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## Old Skier (Feb 5, 2015)

Fish said:



			but I was in the middle of many situations when the IRA were killing INLA (and visa-versa)
		
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And didnt we just love it


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 5, 2015)

Fish said:



			It is but I was in the middle of many situations when the IRA were killing INLA (and visa-versa) and also the flip side with UFF, UVF and UDA killing each other, all for greater power and control. There will always be various factions, some will be more well known than others but the splinter groups can be just as dangerous but not as actively known as there acts are not as often or reported.

Not sure why IS wanted her TBH, but as you state, she was known to be more on the side of Al Qaeda, maybe they had something special lined up for her?
		
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When she failed and was caught, the other suicide bomber was her husband(his bomb went off), her brother-in-law was high up in another group which years later joined up with other groups to found IS, he has since been killed and she was looked at by IS as one of the founders!!


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## c1973 (Feb 5, 2015)

That was more to do with turf wars and protection rackets than any ideology though.

 Not an expert, far from it, but I do get the impression Isis etc are about ideology (twisted as it is) as opposed to who gets the protection money from Ladbrokes.


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## Fish (Feb 5, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			And didnt we just love it 

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It just seemed crazy being scrambled to a fire fight amongst themselves, just let them get on with it I said, was a bit messy clearing up afterwards though and the following few days on patrol you just didn't know what the reaction would be until you found out what it was all about. 1st tour 4-days after my 18th birthday in the 70's, never grew up so quickly in all my life!

The enemy with these extremists are not much different, no uniform and hit soft targets, we need to starve them of weapons and funds as their going to keep growing otherwise, no easy answer but certainly as soon as any British National leaves our shores to train/fight, they should be on a worldwide flight ban and never be allowed to return, as all were doing is stock piling sleepers!


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## SocketRocket (Feb 5, 2015)

Fish said:



			It is but I was in the middle of many situations when the IRA were killing INLA (and visa-versa) and also the flip side with UFF, UVF and UDA killing each other, all for greater power and control. There will always be various factions, some will be more well known than others but the splinter groups can be just as dangerous but not as actively known as there acts are not as often or reported.

Not sure why IS wanted her TBH, but as you state, she was known to be more on the side of Al Qaeda,* maybe they had something special lined up for her?*

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A suicide bomber instructor!    I will show you this only once!


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## Old Skier (Feb 5, 2015)

Well, they didn't wait http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/05/jordan-airstrikes-isis_n_6620844.html?utm_hp_ref=uk&ir=UK


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## Old Skier (Feb 6, 2015)

It appears Jordan have more gonads than everyone else and are sending in ground troops to take on ISIS. Mind you there forces are probably bigger than ours.


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## JustOne (Feb 6, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			It appears Jordan have more gonads than everyone else and are sending in ground troops to take on ISIS. Mind you there forces are probably bigger than ours.
		
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If so then we'd better get ready to see more burnings/beheadings/(mode of death inserted here) etc etc


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## Foxholer (Feb 6, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			It appears Jordan have more gonads than everyone else and are sending in ground troops to take on ISIS. Mind you there forces are probably bigger than ours.
		
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I think I'm pleased that it's a country in the area that is now retaliating.

US/UK constantly being 'the police' doesn't do anyone any good imo.


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## Fish (Feb 6, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			I think I'm pleased that it's a country in the area that is now retaliating.

US/UK constantly being 'the police' doesn't do anyone any good imo.
		
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I have no problem in them (US/UK) being in support of a neighbouring country taking to the fight and underpinning them in a full supportive role, that is far better than leading from the front without or only a token gesture from neighbouring countries being affected.


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## Old Skier (Feb 6, 2015)

Wouldn't it be nice if we heard from the Saudies and got some support from them.


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## Fish (Feb 6, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Wouldn't it be nice if we heard from the Saudies and got some support from them.
		
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Icing on the cake


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