# 3,000,000 Hungry Kids in the UK



## Doon frae Troon (Apr 25, 2017)

What a shameful society we now live in.


https://www.theguardian.com/society...illion-children-at-risk-of-hunger-report-says


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## brendy (Apr 25, 2017)

3 million eh? did they have a show of hands to count them?


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 25, 2017)

I'd be interested to know what percentage of those 3 million children have parents that drink and smoke. Give up a couple of packets of fags and a bottle of vodka each week and all of a sudden you've got Â£35 extra to feed the kids.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 25, 2017)

Honestly, I don't believe that. There will be some genuine cases but many will be pure bad parenting.


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## SaintHacker (Apr 25, 2017)

I was donig a social service job a while back, taking a young mum to counselling sessions. Initially I felt sorry for her, her dad had passed away suddenly and she was left bringing up her younger siblings as well as her own child. On the way she was on the phone to her social worker trying to sort out a food parcel so she could feed the children that weekend. My sympathy very quickly expired when she finished the call and started moaning that her sky tv was playing up and could I drop her at the shop so she could get 20 smokes!


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## SugarPenguin (Apr 25, 2017)

I'm sorry but that's just bad parenting in 99% of the cases 

if responsible adults budget correctly then they can feed their children.


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## guest100718 (Apr 25, 2017)

Good to see lots of compassion and understanding for those that are less well off..... you can all get back to the daily mail now.


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## Hacker Khan (Apr 25, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			Good to see lots of compassion and understanding for those that are less well off..... you can all get back to the daily mail now.
		
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My thoughts exactly.  No matter how you slice and dice it is not the kids fault.  And they are the ones that are suffering.


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## Dasit (Apr 25, 2017)

Doon frae Troon said:



			What a shameful society we now live in.


https://www.theguardian.com/society...illion-children-at-risk-of-hunger-report-says

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We now live in?


Kids been going hungry since we were cavemen


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## Kellfire (Apr 25, 2017)

SugarPenguin said:



			I'm sorry but that's just bad parenting in 99% of the cases
		
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*sigh*


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## User62651 (Apr 25, 2017)

Dasit said:



			We now live in?


Kids been going hungry since we were cavemen
		
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Not in Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland. Higher taxes, better welfare, no nukes, much more equal societies =  happier countries.

Britain can't get past it's long gone days of Empire, industrialisation and importance in the world. Priorities are all skewed and country still run/owned by privileged few for the few.


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## dewsweeper (Apr 25, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			Good to see lots of compassion and understanding for those that are less well off..... you can all get back to the daily mail now.
		
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interesting response.
Is no one allowed a view that does not agree with your humane opinion?
The DM comment does your response no good in my view,lazy cliched remark.


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## IanM (Apr 25, 2017)

Blame the Empire?  That's long gone.... we're a part of an economic powerhouse now...pure utopia, why would we leave?

One hungry kid is one too many.  I wonder where they got their stats from?  And I genuinely have no idea if that's accurate or rubbish... There will be a mix of reasons for it be it 3000 or 3 million.


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## ScienceBoy (Apr 25, 2017)

My tot is always hungry, he loves milk and biscuits! Also wolfs down eggs but his fav is my Veggie Cheesy Mash with beans.

I remeber as a teen also always being hungry, parents struggled to keep the fridge full enough for my sister and I!

I would expect a little budgeting help would benefit many however. I spend a little time every weekend reviewing finances, just download from the online bank, paste into a spreadsheet and select a category. It then tells me if we are over or under budget for each category and overall

I think banks should offer these services for free with every online bank account. I am just lucky I have enough spreadsheet skills to knock up something to do it for me in a couple of clicks.

Couple this with poor time planning, poor nutritional knowledge and a degree of apathy and this would be the result.

I've got a challenge ahead of me, tot is just reaching the fussy eater strange, hopefully when he speaks it will become easier. 

At least he loves fruit and veg at the moment!


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## Crazyface (Apr 25, 2017)

ScienceBoy said:



			My tot is always hungry, he loves milk and biscuits! Also wolfs down eggs but his fav is my Veggie Cheesy Mash with beans.

I remeber as a teen also always being hungry, parents struggled to keep the fridge full enough for my sister and I!

I would expect a little budgeting help would benefit many however. I spend a little time every weekend reviewing finances, just download from the online bank, paste into a spreadsheet and select a category. It then tells me if we are over or under budget for each category and overall

I think banks should offer these services for free with every online bank account. I am just lucky I have enough spreadsheet skills to knock up something to do it for me in a couple of clicks.
		
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No need for this. Remove paid for TV services, cell phones, fags, drugs, BBand. Loads of money !!!


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## SocketRocket (Apr 25, 2017)

I dont know if 3,000,000 Children go hungry during the school holidays or not.  I suspect the OP is making a hidden agenda that it's somehow the fault of the Tories and England, I would like to understand the stats correctly to see if this is a problem UK wide and if it is whether the OP would level the same comment to the Scottish Government.

The first policy I would enforce would be the use of benefit vouchers for food and utility bills along with an ID scheme when you used them.  No more spending in Ciggies,Vodka, special brew, Sky TV, iPhones etc while the kids eat crisps and Pizza.   Also the levels of Morbid Obesity among Parents and Children seem to indicate many are not going hungry. I know that junk food does not help with Obesity but it's not that expensive to buy healthy ingredients and cook a good meal, I suspect many don't want to or don't know how to do that.

We should not have hungry children in this country and should look carefully at the cause where it exists and find proper solutions.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 25, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			I dont know if 3,000,000 Children go hungry during the school holidays or not.  I suspect the OP is making a hidden agenda that it's somehow the fault of the Tories and England, I would like to understand the stats correctly to see if this is a problem UK wide and if it is whether the OP would level the same comment to the Scottish Government.

The first policy I would enforce would be the use of benefit vouchers for food and utility bills along with an ID scheme when you used them.  No more spending in Ciggies,Vodka, special brew, Sky TV, iPhones etc while the kids eat crisps and Pizza.   Also the levels of Morbid Obesity among Parents and Children seem to indicate many are not going hungry. I know that junk food does not help with Obesity but it's not that expensive to buy healthy ingredients and cook a good meal, I suspect many don't want to or don't know how to do that.

We should not have hungry children in this country and should look carefully at the cause where it exists and find proper solutions.
		
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You do realise these parents you speak off are the offspring of mine and your generation, did we do enough to prepare or educate them?


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## SocketRocket (Apr 25, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Not in Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland. Higher taxes, better welfare, no nukes, much more equal societies =  happier countries.

Britain can't get past it's long gone days of Empire, industrialisation and importance in the world. Priorities are all skewed and country still run/owned by privileged few for the few.
		
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Read this and learn it's not just the UK.
http://cphpost.dk/news/poverty-on-the-rise-in-denmark.html


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## snell (Apr 25, 2017)

dewsweeper said:



			interesting response.
Is no one allowed a view that does not agree with your humane opinion?
The DM comment does your response no good in my view,lazy cliched remark.
		
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It's funny as paddy's comment are normally really useful and insightful....


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## Sweep (Apr 25, 2017)

I agree one is too many. No-one should go hungry in 2017 in one of the richest nations on earth. You do have to wonder how this has happened though (and indeed if it is on the level the reports suggest). A bag of dried pasta and some tomatoes Â£2. I get that it's not great food but if we are saying people are starving... And I do get that Â£2 is a lot to some people, but with the systems we have in place I think it's fair to ask for Â£2 or so, how are we in this situation?
The question is how do you solve what should be a very solvable problem? My friend is a primary school teacher. Before free school meals for all kids came in they had some who paid and had a meal and some got theirs free (I guess means tested which is not nice for the kids). Others brought in their own lunch. When free meals came in every child wanted one. 2 sittings for lunch, higher cost etc etc. Whilst you could argue against this, you have to remember that even some of those that formally brought in their own lunch were poorly fed. OK they weren't starving but a bag of crisps and a mars bar is hardly right for a growing child.
The problem is there is no one size fits all solution and governments are typically not good at bespoke solutions. Some will be down to bad parenting or financial mismanagement and others will be in genuine need. Where the state takes over and becomes the nanny is a 21st century problem.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 25, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			You do realise these parents you speak off are the offspring of mine and your generation, did we do enough to prepare or educate them?
		
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They're not my offspring.  I raised mine with different standards.


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## Sweep (Apr 25, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			You do realise these parents you speak off are the offspring of mine and your generation, did we do enough to prepare or educate them?
		
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Whilst I guess we all like to think of ourselves as decent people who would bring up our children well, there can be no doubt that there are some very poorly brought up children these days. However, just because some bad parents are the same age as us does not make us responsible for their failures.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 25, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			They're not my offspring.  I raised mine with different standards.
		
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I'm sure every parent had the same intention, it's still our generation though.


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## Sweep (Apr 25, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Not in Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland. Higher taxes, better welfare, no nukes, much more equal societies =  happier countries.

Britain can't get past it's long gone days of Empire, industrialisation and importance in the world. Priorities are all skewed and country still run/owned by privileged few for the few.
		
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No nukes is fine as long as you know someone who has them will protect you. Having them and being under the protection of NATO and the US saved us from communism. If we are talking about starvation, that particular political movement doesn't have the best record.


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## Dasit (Apr 25, 2017)

Since when do all parents have their kids best intentions in mind.

Plenty of parents prioritise booze and drugs over their kids.



A loaf of bread is 10p in Supermarkets in the evenings, no reason a parent can't buy that for their kids if they are hungry. Just pure bad parenting, typical Guardian playing blame games, total rag of a paper.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 25, 2017)

Dasit said:



			Since when do all parents have their kids best intentions in mind.

Plenty of parents prioritise booze and drugs over their kids.



A loaf of bread is 10p in Supermarkets in the evenings, no reason a parent can't buy that for their kids if they are hungry. Just pure bad parenting, typical Guardian playing blame games, total rag of a paper.
		
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I agree, my question is, when or how as a society have we allowed this to happen?
I accept we'll always have people who will be selfish or clueless, it just appears to have got worse over the last few decades.


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## guest100718 (Apr 25, 2017)

snell said:



			It's funny as paddy's comment are normally really useful and insightful....
		
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Yes.


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## Sweep (Apr 25, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I agree, my question is, when or how as a society have we allowed this to happen?
I accept we'll always have people who will be selfish or clueless, it just appears to have got worse over the last few decades.
		
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Because, sadly, society is not such a big thing nowadays. 
In the late 1950's 2 brothers local to me tragically lost both parents in an accident. Both were taken in by neighbours who brought them up. No-one thought any of this was remotely unusual. Can you imagine that happening today? When I was a kid I knew everybody on my lane. 20+ houses, adults, kids, pets, I knew them all. Now you are lucky if you say hello to your next door neighbour. We used to look out for each other, now no-one cares. A child would never have gone hungry then, no matter how poor the area, indeed probably especially in poor areas. Society as it used to be, how we think of it doesn't exist anymore.


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## Sweep (Apr 25, 2017)

A big part of the problem is that we think it's the governments job to solve all these issues. We won't take responsibility for ourselves and if someone else's kid is hungry it's not our problem. It is our problem. We need to get back to taking responsibility and to looking out for each other. We need to ditch the nanny state and start to take care of ourselves and others.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 25, 2017)

Sweep said:



			A big part of the problem is that we think it's the governments job to solve all these issues. We won't take responsibility for ourselves and if someone else's kid is hungry it's not our problem. It is our problem. We need to get back to taking responsibility and to looking out for each other. We need to ditch the nanny state and start to take care of ourselves and others.
		
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It's the Government of the day responsibility to at least be part of the equation to solve these issues if past Governments were partly to blame for creating them.


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## Hobbit (Apr 25, 2017)

There's a lot of truth in various posts, and a lot of generalising.

I do quite a bit with various charities every month, including food banks.

For me, the biggest crime by far that I witness every single week is the DWP sending people to food banks because their processes are too unwieldy. The time taken between putting in a claim for support and receiving that support is a disgrace. It doesn't just impact on food. A growing number of food banks are also making payments for gas and electricity.

And then there's the utility companies putting people onto expensive pre-payment meters because they've got behind with their payments. 

Yes there are poor parents but, equally, the system is letting all claimants down.

3,000,000 hungry kids in the country? Probably pretty close to be honest...

And can I just add, my youngest daughter is a teacher in an inner city school. A number of children didn't want to have the Christmas holidays off because they would be cold and hungry...

3,000,000 hungry kids in the country? Probably pretty close to be honest... and more than just hungry... poorly clothed and cold and no presents and experiencing abusive parents.


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## Reemul (Apr 25, 2017)

12 million kids in the UK so 1 in 4 are always hungry.

So what the report says that all kids that qualify for school meals don't get fed in the school holidays rather than 3 mill hungry all the time (not that this is right).

How do they come up with the fact that 100% of the kids that get free school meals always go hungry in the holidays and never get fed.

Do kids get free school meals because they don't get fed from home?

My wife is a teacher in a more affluent area and says it's amazing the crap that many of her pupils bring in, it's the parents that can't be bothered with putting in any effort. then the free school meals for KS1 came in and she says the waste is terrible. Kids get the meal every day regardless of liking it or not and a large percentage either leave it or only eat some of it. We make a massive effort to ensure our kids get food they like that they will eat and there at still times when they don't eat it.

Parents have to be responsible for feeding their kids both in school term, making sure they have breakfast and tea as well as throughout the holidays. Again it seems like it has become the school's job to teach kids, feed them and look after them with before and after school clubs yet the parents don't want to make the effort or would rather have sky, iphones and booze and fags.

My point is if everyone made an effort those in need to have more focus put on them to ensure the kids get what they need instead we are all over the place having to plug holes in the system when parents should be more than capable of doing it themselves.

There will always be people who have need of help and we should be there for them but more and more it seems there are plenty that do not want to be responsible parents and their kids suffer for that. It's amazing really if you want certain pets or animals you need a license but anyone can have as many kids as they want regardless.


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## pokerjoke (Apr 25, 2017)

Hungry kids,abused kids,bullied kids the list is long and very sad.
I don't know the answer but I will do my utmost to make sure my kids are not one of the above.
I really cant worry about other kids but you can see some that look like[cant be definite] they need to be treated better by their parents.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 25, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Hungry kids,abused kids,bullied kids the list is long and very sad.
I don't know the answer but I will do my utmost to make sure my kids are not one of the above.
I really cant worry about other kids but you can see some that look like[cant be definite] they need to be treated better by their parents.
		
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Totally agree with your sentiments Tony.

I'm sure no one would come on here and say they've failed their kids or taught them how to abuse the system etc.

Parents are certainly not innocent in this, but I think we've got to the stage of some of these issues spanning 3-4 generations and some current parents are a product of the now grandparents and don't see some of the issues the majority find appalling.


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## Pathetic Shark (Apr 25, 2017)

Dasit said:



			Since when do all parents have their kids best intentions in mind.
Plenty of parents prioritise booze and drugs over their kids.
A loaf of bread is 10p in Supermarkets in the evenings, no reason a parent can't buy that for their kids if they are hungry. Just pure bad parenting, typical Guardian playing blame games, total rag of a paper.
		
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Spot on -   total left-wing garbage from a paper that has its writers living in a fairy-tale world where everything is wonderful.   Yes it is terrible there are kids in this situation in the country but you can start with the parents in most (and I stress most not all) cases.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 25, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			It's the Government of the day responsibility to at least be part of the equation to solve these issues if past Governments were partly to blame for creating them.
		
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The Poor have always been with us and always will.  I would agree the State should do something but it's not easy and if sanctions are taken against feckless parents then how will it affect the children.  Many people should never have children and I suspect in many cases the kids are either by products of their lifestyles or cash machines to support their lifestyles.   I really don't know the answer, it seems like some people should be steralised but that will never happen.  My best solution is the food and utility voucher with proof of identity.

Delays in paying benefits is a problem, how are people expected to wait 6/8 weeks without money.  There has to be a better system than what we have now.


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## The Evertonian (Apr 25, 2017)

Doon frae Troon said:



			What a shameful society we now live in.


https://www.theguardian.com/society...illion-children-at-risk-of-hunger-report-says

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 Yet at the same time tooth extraction for kids aged 5 is at an all time high.


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## patricks148 (Apr 25, 2017)

i remember seeing a stat a while ago that there were 2 million single parents in the UK, that must be factor with that many, wonder what the figure was 30 or 40 years ago, not many i would imagine


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## SocketRocket (Apr 25, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			i remember seeing a stat a while ago that there were 2 million single parents in the UK, that must be factor with that many, wonder what the figure was 30 or 40 years ago, not many i would imagine
		
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There is something in that.  There are so many Women bringing up kids on their own where the Fathers clear off and take no responsibility.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 25, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			The Poor have always been with us and always will.  I would agree the State should do something but it's not easy and if sanctions are taken against feckless parents then how will it affect the children.  Many people should never have children and I suspect in many cases the kids are either by products of their lifestyles or cash machines to support their lifestyles.   I really don't know the answer, it seems like some people should be steralised but that will never happen.  My best solution is the food and utility voucher with proof of identity.

Delays in paying benefits is a problem, how are people expected to wait 6/8 weeks without money.  There has to be a better system than what we have now.
		
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Your answer is to punish or make it hard for those currently in the system, I'll ask again where were the parents parents when they were growing up, this is not something that has suddenly happened!
How about we start educating the children of today so we don't simply keep repeating the same mistakes tomorrow. Yes we need to deal with the scum of today but to talk about sterilisation is disgusting.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 25, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			There is something in that.  There are so many Women bringing up kids on their own where the Fathers clear off and take no responsibility.
		
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Or there is also a lot of women who are single parents that have got themselves pregnant to allow them to get a house and benefits.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or there is also a lot of women who are single parents that have got themselves pregnant to allow them to get a house and benefits.
		
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I agree, I mentioned that in an earlier post.


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## Dasit (Apr 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or there is also a lot of women who are single parents that have got themselves pregnant to allow them to get a house and benefits.
		
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Yep being a young single mother is a lifestyle choice for a lot of women.


If you are poor and badly educated teenage girl, it does seem like a nice gravy train to get a house and money by just having a child with whatever man you can find to get you pregnant.


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## Raesy92 (Apr 25, 2017)

Find many of the comments in this thread pretty saddening.


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or there is also a lot of women who are single parents that *have got themselves pregnant* to allow them to get a house and benefits.
		
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How'd they manage that then?


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## virtuocity (Apr 25, 2017)

Raesy92 said:



			Find many of the comments in this thread pretty saddening.
		
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Absolutely.  I've tried 6 times to write a reply to this thread but deleted them- The level of narrow mindedness is staggering.  

This is a forum where opinions are valid, even if not informed by personal experience.  But as someone who has worked intensively with families brought to their knees by poverty I'm quite upset by the level of utter crap that's been spouted by some on here.


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## Hobbit (Apr 25, 2017)

virtuocity said:



			Absolutely.  I've tried 6 times to write a reply to this thread but deleted them- The level of narrow mindedness is staggering.  

This is a forum where opinions are valid, even if not informed by personal experience.  But as someone who has worked intensively with families brought to their knees by poverty I'm quite upset by the level of utter crap that's been spouted by some on here.
		
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Well said Dave.

I think some people need to walk in someone else's shoes...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 25, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Well said Dave.

I think some people need to walk in someone else's shoes...
		
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Completely agree :thup:


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## palindromicbob (Apr 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or there is also a lot of women who are single parents that have got themselves pregnant to allow them to get a house and benefits.
		
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As much as I see FD's point (it takes two to tango). I wish I could find this statement shocking and unbelievable I know exactly the mentality you are talking about. 

I used to live in flats in Wrexham.  At a party in a neighbours flat I was approached by a rather drunk  girl who asked me to sleep with her because I "seemed like a nice guy". When I informed her I had a girlfriend in an attempt to politely refuse she said "It's ok, I don't want a relationship, I just want to get pregnant so I can get a flat."   I took that as a cue to leave the party. To top it off I later found out she was only 15.   She got her wish in the end it would seem because 18 months later I saw her leaving a nearby flat pushing her new born baby in a pram.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 25, 2017)

palindromicbob said:



			As much as I see FD's point (it takes two to tango). I wish I could find this statement shocking and unbelievable I know exactly the mentality you are talking about. 

I used to live in flats in Wrexham.  At a party in a neighbours flat I was approached by a rather drunk  girl who asked me to sleep with her because I "seemed like a nice guy". When I informed her I had a girlfriend in an attempt to politely refuse she said "It's ok, I don't want a relationship, I just want to get pregnant so I can get a flat."   I took that as a cue to leave the party. To top it off I later found out she was only 15.   She got her wish in the end it would seem because 18 months later I saw her leaving a nearby flat pushing her new born baby in a pram.
		
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Fully agree with your first statement and do agree with the two to tango

My old flat was built in a new area and around us they built social housing - it was then full of young ladies with kids , one had four and she was 28 , every kid had a different father and she openly admitted she had unprotected sex to get pregnant to give her more benefits and an upgrade on her flat to a house and others round her where of the same attitude. Yes there were also single mothers who had partners that did a runner when they got pregnant and they were left with the baby.

I don't believe it's a massive level but there a certainly young ladies who see getting pregnant as way to get themselves a life or a way out of the area they are in.

it's awful to think that it happens but it's clear it does


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## Raesy92 (Apr 25, 2017)

Many are lying the blame at the parents, and in some instances it is probably rightly so. 

However the rise in the level of reliance of food banks has increased massively, do you think these are being used by the parents that have little care for their children so just feed them pizza and chips...? Or do you think they are being used by parents that are struggling to put the very basics on the dinner table for their families?


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## Dando (Apr 25, 2017)

Raesy92 said:



			Many are lying the blame at the parents, and in some instances it is probably rightly so. 

However the rise in the level of reliance of food banks has increased massively, do you think these are being used by the parents that have little care for their children so just feed them pizza and chips...? Or do you think they are being used by parents that are struggling to put the very basics on the dinner table for their families?
		
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Maybe some are using them as they are genuinely in need but I bet a fair few are taking advantage and using them so they have more money for fags and booze


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## Raesy92 (Apr 25, 2017)

Dando said:



			Maybe some are using them as they are genuinely in need but I bet a fair few are taking advantage and using them so they have more money for fags and booze
		
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Or maybe the majority are using them because they actually need to. Then there may be a tiny fraction of people that are using them so they can still buy fags and booze. 

People do realise that smoking is an addiction, and it's not just so easy to stop. Making sure the next generation don't start smoking should be the aim rather than chastising those that do.


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## Raesy92 (Apr 25, 2017)

Peoples main gripe seems to be that parents are spending their benefit money on fags (probably make a massive issue because they believe the tax they pay is buying this). 

I wonder if these same people realise that between 80-90% on the RRP of a 20 pack of cigarettes is taxed. So a large majority of this money is actually going back in to the government purse.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 25, 2017)

Raesy92 said:



			Or maybe the majority are using them because they actually need to. Then there may be a tiny fraction of people that are using them so they can still buy fags and booze. 

People do realise that smoking is an addiction, and it's not just so easy to stop. Making sure the next generation don't start smoking should be the aim rather than chastising those that do.
		
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I would say it's impossible to find a definitive answer - there will be cases of both scenarios, people using food banks etc because they are clearly struggling and will be victims of the financial crisis and be in areas of clear poverty whilst still trying to bring up their children the very best they can 

And there will be people who will use them to save them using their benefit money so they can buy booze and fags. As for stopping smoking - yep it has addictive substances in the fag but there is plenty of ways out there to help people give up , just got to have the will and plenty just don't want to give up their booze and fags because it's their vice. There a plenty of youngsters smoking who have started when they know the clear dangers of it


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## Old Skier (Apr 25, 2017)

Doon frae Troon said:



			What a shameful society we now live in.


https://www.theguardian.com/society...illion-children-at-risk-of-hunger-report-says

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Is this a U.K. Figure or just Scotland.

One is to many but if we go by the media the rest are all suffering with obesity


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## guest100718 (Apr 25, 2017)

virtuocity said:



			Absolutely.  I've tried 6 times to write a reply to this thread but deleted them- The level of narrow mindedness is staggering.  

This is a forum where opinions are valid, even if not informed by personal experience.  But as someone who has worked intensively with families brought to their knees by poverty I'm quite upset by the level of utter crap that's been spouted by some on here.
		
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...


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## virtuocity (Apr 25, 2017)

guest100718 said:



			...
		
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???


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## guest100718 (Apr 25, 2017)

virtuocity said:



			???
		
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###


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 25, 2017)

virtuocity said:



			Absolutely.  I've tried 6 times to write a reply to this thread but deleted them- The level of narrow mindedness is staggering.  

This is a forum where opinions are valid, even if not informed by personal experience.  But as someone who has worked intensively with families brought to their knees by poverty I'm quite upset by the level of utter crap that's been spouted by some on here.
		
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Excellent post sir


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## guest100718 (Apr 25, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Excellent post sir
		
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indeed


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## Old Skier (Apr 25, 2017)

Budgeting, priorities and education are the issues I come across all the time in my voluntary work.


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## Hacker Khan (Apr 25, 2017)

virtuocity said:



			Absolutely.  I've tried 6 times to write a reply to this thread but deleted them- The level of narrow mindedness is staggering.  

This is a forum where opinions are valid, even if not informed by personal experience.  But as someone who has worked intensively with families brought to their knees by poverty I'm quite upset by the level of utter crap that's been spouted by some on here.
		
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I'll give that one a like as well. 

It's as if some of these are parody accounts. I know, it's a golf forum, let's post in the manner of the most reactionary narrow minded Express/Mail reader as that is the lazy stereotype of golfers as it will be a laugh. But the sad thing is that they are not doing it as a joke.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 25, 2017)

Hacker Khan said:



			I'll give that one a like as well. 

It's as if some of these are parody accounts. I know, it's a golf forum, let's post in the manner of the most reactionary narrow minded Express/Mail reader as that is the lazy stereotype of golfers as it will be a laugh. But the sad thing is that they are not doing it as a joke.
		
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I'm a bit confused or maybe I have missed these posts that are horrifying people ? Can you give us a clue or maybe it's my posts ? 

Genuinely only seen people give an opinion ?


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## guest100718 (Apr 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm a bit confused or maybe I have missed these posts that are horrifying people ? Can you give us a clue or maybe it's my posts ? 

Genuinely only seen people give an opinion ?
		
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Number of times LP mentioned.... 0 

Stand down


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## SocketRocket (Apr 25, 2017)

Raesy92 said:



			Peoples main gripe seems to be that parents are spending their benefit money on fags (probably make a massive issue because they believe the tax they pay is buying this). 

I wonder if these same people realise that between 80-90% on the RRP of a 20 pack of cigarettes is taxed. So a large majority of this money is actually going back in to the government purse.
		
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So we should feel better that they are paying their share of tax rather than feeding their kids!  The Tax paying is a red herring, if someone pays tax out of an income provided from others tax then they are contributing nothing.


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## Dando (Apr 25, 2017)

Hacker Khan said:



			I'll give that one a like as well. 

It's as if some of these are parody accounts. I know, it's a golf forum, let's post in the manner of the most reactionary narrow minded Express/Mail reader as that is the lazy stereotype of golfers as it will be a laugh. But the sad thing is that they are not doing it as a joke.
		
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my other half works is school and has kids tell her they haven't eaten. When parents come in they have new cars, smart phones and the latest edition trainers.

after I got custody of my daughter she told me (she was told not to tell me) her tea at her mums was often a pot noodle that sometimes needed to last 2 days! Her mum had new trainers, iPhones, PlayStation, sky TV, smoked and drank. She even had money to go to Blackpool every weekend but always pleaded poverty despite getting all benefits, working cash in hand and getting maintenance from me.  

its all all about getting priorities right!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm a bit confused or maybe I have missed these posts that are horrifying people ? Can you give us a clue or maybe it's my posts ? 

Genuinely only seen people give an opinion ?
		
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Try the one mentioning sterilisation or tarring every single-mother with the same brush or the ones were everyone are only using food banks so they can buy fags and booze with the money they save.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 25, 2017)

virtuocity said:



			Absolutely.  I've tried 6 times to write a reply to this thread but deleted them- The level of narrow mindedness is staggering.  

This is a forum where opinions are valid, even if not informed by personal experience.  But as someone who has worked intensively with families brought to their knees by poverty I'm quite upset by the level of utter crap that's been spouted by some on here.
		
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It is indeed sad to see someone brought to their knees by poverty and especially when the victim has tried their best to survive.  The problem here is if we take extremes then the discussion becomes emotive and narrow and does not portray the overall situation.

I take your point but are you also supporting the view that there is no excuse for poverty in any circumstances, that the individual should not take responsibility for their lifestyles and make changes that will improve their children's quality of lives.   I talk from personal experience where I lived in real poverty as a child, my Father was disabled as a Soldier fighting for his country and was thrown on the scrapheap after the war, my parents didn't know where the next meal was coming from  most of the time but they did everything possible to protect their children. IMO there are far too many people these days that make the decision to spend money on what I would call luxuries before taking care of the basic needs of their families, you and others may believe such thinking is 'utter crap', but rather than say that why not engage in some proper debate and persuade people that  they may be wrong in their thinking.   Would it be better then if anyone believing that there are people misusing the system just shut up as it may be offensive to some?


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## SocketRocket (Apr 25, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Try the one mentioning sterilisation or tarring every single-mother with the same brush or the ones were everyone are only using food banks so they can buy fags and booze with the money they save.
		
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How about reading the posts and not taking bits and pieces out of context to promote your opinion.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 25, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm a bit confused or maybe I have missed these posts that are horrifying people ? Can you give us a clue or maybe it's my posts ? 

Genuinely only seen people give an opinion ?
		
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It's just a typical socialist tactic where they attack the integrity of anyone disagreeing with their mantra rather than make a reasoned argument based on the issue.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 25, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			It is indeed sad to see someone brought to their knees by poverty and especially when the victim has tried their best to survive.  The problem here is if we take extremes then the discussion becomes emotive and narrow and does not portray the overall situation.

I take your point but are you also supporting the view that there is no excuse for poverty in any circumstances, that the individual should not take responsibility for their lifestyles and make changes that will improve their children's quality of lives.   I talk from personal experience where I lived in real poverty as a child, my Father was disabled as a Soldier fighting for his country and was thrown on the scrapheap after the war, my parents didn't know where the next meal was coming from  most of the time but they did everything possible to protect their children. IMO there are far too many people these days that make the decision to spend money on what I would call luxuries before taking care of the basic needs of their families, you and others may believe such thinking is 'utter crap', but rather than say that why not engage in some proper debate and persuade people that  they may be wrong in their thinking.   Would it be better then if anyone believing that there are people misusing the system just shut up as it may be offensive to some others?
		
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Were in his post does he support the view there is no excuse for poverty in any circumstances, that the individual should not take responsibility for their lifestyles and make changes that will improve their children's quality of lives. Your putting words in his mouth.

The discussion is extremes, somebody mentions single mothers and straight away we get other posting stories about single mothers to reinforce the view.

I would imagine we are all intelligent people on here but the opinions are the extremes.

I do case work for the RBL, I've done quite a few in recent years were ex military personnel are asking for vouchers to go the food bank to see them and their families through to the next week. like a lot of things in this country we tar everyone with the same brush and have become more and more sceptical, it's sad, don't let the scumbag minority cloud your judgement.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 25, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			How about reading the posts and not taking bits and pieces out of context to promote your opinion.
		
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Or you could answer were you think the barbaric act of forced sterilisation fits into a modern society!


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## SocketRocket (Apr 25, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Or you could answer were you think the barbaric act of forced sterilisation fits into a modern society!
		
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I ask you again. Read the post and then use it in the context it was made.   

There are people IMO that would be better off sterilised as they are not capable of raising children, it breaks my heart to see how some of these morons raise and treat these kids and the damage they inflict on their young lives.   As I said this will never happen but does not detract from my opinion of them.   And before you start climbing up the moral high ground I am not referring to people who are on hard times.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 25, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



*Were in his post does he support the view there is no excuse for poverty in any circumstances*, that the individual should not take responsibility for their lifestyles and make changes that will improve their children's quality of lives. Your putting words in his mouth.

The discussion is extremes, somebody mentions single mothers and straight away we get other posting stories about single mothers to reinforce the view.

I would imagine we are all intelligent people on here but the opinions are the extremes.

I do case work for the RBL, I've done quite a few in recent years were ex military personnel are asking for vouchers to go the food bank to see them and their families through to the next week. like a lot of things in this country we tar everyone with the same brush and have become more and more sceptical, it's sad, don't let the scumbag minority cloud your judgement.
		
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You have a bad habit of not reading and digesting what I post.  I asked him a question, I never made an accusation.


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## Quadhole (Apr 26, 2017)

It isn't just "ONE POST" or 5 posts that is so surprising, but many more, it is the general feeling and cover up, excuses to ignore the obvious here by elite, and Golfers fit the bill to a TEE. It is also great to see that over the POND, you have the same type of people now, ones you would never hear from 40 years ago, outside of the country club... Now they are not country club members, but half way there and post like one...

Not my problem :
1.It is BADDDDD Parenting ?
2.what do you want me to do ? 
3. I have my own things to deal with !
4.Poverty, yea right, I dont ever see it and I go everywhere...
5. I seen a lady that claimed poverty, yet she had a TV and a Pack of Cigarettes. (shame on her)...
6. Those kids were eating candy, how can they do that when they are on the free meal program.
7. There isn't income inequality, just some people work harder and the world needs ditch diggers too...
8. THey should go back and get a better education.
9. That guy actually bought a SODA with his food stamps...

Lets face it, the electrician, the plumber, the executive assitant, the janitor, the store manager, taxi driver, district manager, all make the same money or close to it   s 30 years ago. The Executive now make 30 times his old salary and so do the medical professionals, Nurses, nope, secretaries, nope... There is now a cutoff line and you are above it or below it, above grows and below is stagnate for the next 30 years... Better open your own business, because you, as a skilled craftsman, no matter what the skill, is below the suit and tie guy in banking and his is going to grow exponentially while your income falls. They have excuse after excuse, after chart to tell you why it isnt, but it is, and all here know it, just refuse to admit it, thus, don't have to care.

I read all the same ignorant sh*t from Business tie elitist over here too... I see we are a carbon copy of each other... If you are raking in the money and don't care about other people, admit it, but don't pretend it is all the FAthER and Mothers faults so you can ignore it... you know, dAMN RIGHT WELL, that our society has turned into 2 separate but unequal entities... THere is ZERO chance a kid from one of these families can get out based on the PAY their parents make, i am not talking about the ones you used to excuse yourself from paying attention, I am talking about the hard working honest guy that you MAY or MAY not rip off in telling him (this is a good investment for you) or (sorry to increase your rent, our bills went up).. When you know in fact, it is more for you and less for them...
This isn't pointed at any one person, but the general (THOUGHT PATTERN) that has taken ahold of the right wing in that (Not my problem).. it may not be now, but the fact you are driving a wedge with greed between the VERY rich and the measly poor will catch up to your kids when they have to bail them out, or shoot them at their door step... I am not on a crusade, and am just a guy in the middle willing to tell the truth... I certainly do not make a killing financially, and can see what is coming. I am just willing to look and see it, are you ?
Hey, being a human isn't for everyone.. .Some people need that cigar, that hooker, and that golf game to feel like a man... Go get um tough guys...


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## SocketRocket (Apr 26, 2017)

Quadhole said:



			It isn't just "ONE POST" or 5 posts that is so surprising, but many more, it is the general feeling and cover up, excuses to ignore the obvious here by elite, and Golfers fit the bill to a TEE. It is also great to see that over the POND, you have the same type of people now, ones you would never hear from 40 years ago, outside of the country club... Now they are not country club members, but half way there and post like one...

Not my problem :
1.It is BADDDDD Parenting ?
2.what do you want me to do ? 
3. I have my own things to deal with !
4.Poverty, yea right, I dont ever see it and I go everywhere...
5. I seen a lady that claimed poverty, yet she had a TV and a Pack of Cigarettes. (shame on her)...
6. Those kids were eating candy, how can they do that when they are on the free meal program.
7. There isn't income inequality, just some people work harder and the world needs ditch diggers too...
8. THey should go back and get a better education.
9. That guy actually bought a SODA with his food stamps...

Lets face it, the electrician, the plumber, the executive assitant, the janitor, the store manager, taxi driver, district manager, all make the same money or close to it   s 30 years ago. The Executive now make 30 times his old salary and so do the medical professionals, Nurses, nope, secretaries, nope... There is now a cutoff line and you are above it or below it, above grows and below is stagnate for the next 30 years... Better open your own business, because you, as a skilled craftsman, no matter what the skill, is below the suit and tie guy in banking and his is going to grow exponentially while your income falls. They have excuse after excuse, after chart to tell you why it isnt, but it is, and all here know it, just refuse to admit it, thus, don't have to care.

I read all the same ignorant sh*t from Business tie elitist over here too... I see we are a carbon copy of each other... If you are raking in the money and don't care about other people, admit it, but don't pretend it is all the FAthER and Mothers faults so you can ignore it... you know, dAMN RIGHT WELL, that our society has turned into 2 separate but unequal entities... THere is ZERO chance a kid from one of these families can get out based on the PAY their parents make, i am not talking about the ones you used to excuse yourself from paying attention, I am talking about the hard working honest guy that you MAY or MAY not rip off in telling him (this is a good investment for you) or (sorry to increase your rent, our bills went up).. When you know in fact, it is more for you and less for them...
This isn't pointed at any one person, but the general (THOUGHT PATTERN) that has taken ahold of the right wing in that (Not my problem).. it may not be now, but the fact you are driving a wedge with greed between the VERY rich and the measly poor will catch up to your kids when they have to bail them out, or shoot them at their door step... I am not on a crusade, and am just a guy in the middle willing to tell the truth... I certainly do not make a killing financially, and can see what is coming. I am just willing to look and see it, are you ?
Hey, being a human isn't for everyone.. .Some people need that cigar, that hooker, and that golf game to feel like a man... Go get um tough guys...
		
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Your are talking of life in the USA which is very different from the UK, especially with Welfare.     Do you have any experience of life in the UK?  It sound very much like you dont by your post.


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## richy (Apr 26, 2017)

virtuocity said:



			Absolutely.  I've tried 6 times to write a reply to this thread but deleted them- The level of narrow mindedness is staggering.  

This is a forum where opinions are valid, even if not informed by personal experience.  But as someone who has worked intensively with families brought to their knees by poverty I'm quite upset by the level of utter crap that's been spouted by some on here.
		
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Excellent post.


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## richy (Apr 26, 2017)

So if you're poor and struggle to feed your kids you most probably drink too much, smoke, take drugs, have the best TV package or have a brand new phone etc?

Unbelievable. Maybe a golf forum isn't the best place to get a fair representation of what it's like to struggle. 
(Oh look, here come the "I was poor growing up" posts)


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## Hacker Khan (Apr 26, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			I ask you again. Read the post and then use it in the context it was made.   

There are people IMO that would be better off sterilised as they are not capable of raising children, it breaks my heart to see how some of these morons raise and treat these kids and the damage they inflict on their young lives.   *As I said this will never happen *but does not detract from my opinion of them.   And before you start climbing up the moral high ground I am not referring to people who are on hard times.
		
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Just a heads up, by saying '_this will never happen_' does not make an opinion any less offensive or morally justifiable.   Let me give you an example:-
_
I think old people should be shot, but this will never happen_.  Now you see that opinion is still offensive, despite the 'it will never happen' clause I added at the end. 

But to be fair to you, it is good to hear that people who have fallen on hard times are not on your sterilisation hit list.  I'm sure they will sleep better knowing that....


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## Hobbit (Apr 26, 2017)

richy said:



			So if you're poor and struggle to feed your kids you most probably drink too much, smoke, take drugs, have the best TV package or have a brand new phone etc?

Unbelievable. Maybe a golf forum isn't the best place to get a fair representation of what it's like to struggle. 
(Oh look, here come the "I was poor growing up" posts)
		
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Great post, right until your bracketed sentence. Can you see the poor from up there on that very high horse? But to satisfy your stereotyping, I grew up in the roughest part of Middlesbrough. I remember what it was like, reinforced by lots of charity work every single month in areas like that across the UK.

What things do you do for the poor, other than give sermons from on high?


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## Hacker Khan (Apr 26, 2017)

richy said:



			So if you're poor and struggle to feed your kids you most probably drink too much, smoke, take drugs, have the best TV package or have a brand new phone etc?

Unbelievable. Maybe a golf forum isn't the best place to get a fair representation of what it's like to struggle. 
*(Oh look, here come the "I was poor growing up" posts)*

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When I was young we were poor as we used to dream of livin' in a corridor! Woulda' been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woken up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us!


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## SocketRocket (Apr 26, 2017)

richy said:



			So if you're poor and struggle to feed your kids you most probably drink too much, smoke, take drugs, have the best TV package or have a brand new phone etc?

Unbelievable. Maybe a golf forum isn't the best place to get a fair representation of what it's like to struggle. 
(Oh look, here come the "I was poor growing up" posts)
		
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That's reactionary twaddle if you dont think there is a problem with this.  You seem to have missed the parts where posters have sympathy for the genuine case and your professional feeling of offence somehow seems to sit you very high up on your horse.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 26, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			I ask you again. Read the post and then use it in the context it was made.   

There are people IMO that would be better off sterilised as they are not capable of raising children, it breaks my heart to see how some of these morons raise and treat these kids and the damage they inflict on their young lives.   As I said this will never happen but does not detract from my opinion of them.   And before you start climbing up the moral high ground I am not referring to people who are on hard times.
		
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Who are these people? The mentally ill, the disabled? We are discussing hungry children and you brought sterilisation into it.
Is it only the working class you'd sterilise as I'm struggling to see exactly who'd you sterilise, will it be just the women or both in the relationship.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 26, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			You have a bad habit of not reading and digesting what I post.  I asked him a question, I never made an accusation.
		
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Why ask the question at all, why not ask for his experiences, he probably has experience of both sides, you only asked about the bad, he probably has seen honest decent people doing the right thing, but that's no good as it won't support your point of view.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 26, 2017)

Hacker Khan said:



			When I was young we were poor as we used to dream of livin' in a corridor! Woulda' been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woken up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us!
		
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I take it this is pointed at my post.  If you think my father being severely disabled fighting for his country a subject for derision then you really need to take some of your own medicine mate.  I'm out of this thread as it's not going anywhere sensible now.


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## user2010 (Apr 26, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Or you could answer were you think the barbaric act of *forced sterilisation *fits into a modern society!
		
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Take a look at the Jeremy Kyle Show of a morning.


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## guest100718 (Apr 26, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			I take it this is pointed at my post.  If you think my father being severely disabled fighting for his country a subject for derision then you really need to take some of your own medicine mate.
		
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wooooooooossssshhhhh


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## richy (Apr 26, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Great post, right until your bracketed sentence. Can you see the poor from up there on that very high horse? But to satisfy your stereotyping, I grew up in the roughest part of Middlesbrough. I remember what it was like, reinforced by lots of charity work every single month in areas like that across the UK.

What things do you do for the poor, other than give sermons from on high?
		
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That last bit wasn't 100% serious. I'm hardly on my high horse, am I?

Do you really want to know the things me and my family do for the poor? Or were you just trying to be clever?


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## richy (Apr 26, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			That's reactionary twaddle if you dont think there is a problem with this.  You seem to have missed the parts where posters have sympathy for the genuine case and your professional feeling of offence somehow seems to sit you very high up on your horse.
		
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I'm not offended in the slightest. And again how am I on my high horse?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 26, 2017)

...Isn't going to be sorted by redirecting overseas aid budget to UK internal issues.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 26, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Honestly, I don't believe that. There will be some genuine cases but many will be pure bad parenting.
		
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Doesn't change fact that the children are hungry


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 26, 2017)

Hacker Khan said:



			My thoughts exactly.  No matter how you slice and dice it is not the kids fault.  And they are the ones that are suffering.
		
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And though i haven't yet through the posts on this topic it's no surprise to see on a quick glance of last couple of pages the usual suspects dismissing and scornful as liberal snowflakes 
any who express sympathy or understanding of the difficulties of being poor in today's society.


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## Norrin Radd (Apr 26, 2017)

Hacker Khan said:



			When I was young we were poor as we used to dream of livin' in a corridor! Woulda' been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woken up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us!
		
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.
wow breakfast in bed every morning.you must have been very rich.

 right the jokes out of the way .
 re foodbanks .
   it seems that a lot of people think that you get access to food beanks whenever you need them ,short answer ,NO YOU DONT. 
 During my time injured and off work and only getting ssp as an income i was allowed a visit to a food bank ,talking to those that run it i asked how often you are allowed access to them ,the reply was you only get reccomended by an outside organisation such a dwp or health visitor. you arent given carte blanche access to them. 
maybe once a month is all you would get. 
   as for the figure of 3 million ,i think plucking figures out of the air is what has brought that to the table . as said there are 12 million kids in the country and a quarter are going hungry .i dont think so .
 im not saying kids arent hungry ,and im not pointing any fingers as to who is to blame but the figures to my mind are very distorted.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 26, 2017)

virtuocity said:



			Absolutely.  I've tried 6 times to write a reply to this thread but deleted them- The level of narrow mindedness is staggering.  

This is a forum where opinions are valid, even if not informed by personal experience.  But as someone who has worked intensively with families brought to their knees by poverty I'm quite upset by the level of utter crap that's been spouted by some on here.
		
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Spot on sir - someone once said - let us who is without sin cast the first stone


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 26, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And though i haven't yet through the posts on this topic it's no surprise to see on a quick glance of last couple of pages the usual suspects dismissing and scornful as liberal snowflakes 
any who express sympathy or understanding of the difficulties of being poor in today's society.
		
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And also no surprise to see those on the left dismissing those with opposing views  or those questioning the validity of the article as right wing bigots or Daily Mail readers. It reminds me of the Blair years when anyone that dared to question the levels of immigration was labelled as racist. I don't think anyone has suggested that all of the parents of these hungry children are wasting their money on booze and tags but a significant number do.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 26, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			And also no surprise to see those on the left dismissing those with opposing views  or those questioning the validity of the article as right wing bigots or Daily Mail readers. It reminds me of the Blair years when anyone that dared to question the levels of immigration was labelled as racist. I don't think anyone has suggested that all of the parents of these hungry children are wasting their money on booze and tags but a significant number do.
		
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Up until the last 5 words you posted as I don't know how you can justify that sentence, I agree.

This isn't a Cameron made problem or a Blair made problem, successive Governments over 30-40 years have failed some elements of our Society and failed to address the problems, what we've ended up with is extremes of opinion. 

There are good and bad people in all levels of society and until we get past the scaremongering and sensational headlines and get a true picture of the issues we'll just keep running round in circles.


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## virtuocity (Apr 26, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			And also no surprise to see those on the left dismissing those with opposing views  or those questioning the validity of the article as right wing bigots or Daily Mail readers. It reminds me of the Blair years when anyone that dared to question the levels of immigration was labelled as racist. I don't think anyone has suggested that all of the parents of these hungry children are wasting their money on booze and tags but a significant number do.
		
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When you use the word 'significant' in relation to numbers are you talking about being statistically significant or 'if one family did this then that's one too many' type of significant?


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 26, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			And also no surprise to see those on the left dismissing those with opposing views  or those questioning the validity of the article as right wing bigots or Daily Mail readers. It reminds me of the Blair years when anyone that dared to question the levels of immigration was labelled as racist. I don't think anyone has suggested that all of the parents of these hungry children are wasting their money on booze and tags but a significant number do.
		
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What's no surprise is that certain people, who tend to have right wing views, choose to ignore the plight of millions of people suffering through poverty and instead fixate on those that are supposedly milking the system.


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 26, 2017)

virtuocity said:



			When you use the word 'significant' in relation to numbers are you talking about being statistically significant or 'if one family did this then that's one too many' type of significant?
		
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To my mind even 10% of parents spending money on cigarettes or alcohol instead of on feeding their kids properly would be a significant number, and I would hazard a guess that the actual figure would be higher than this. I worked in job centres for several years and would estimate that at least 75% of the people I dealt with smoked. Obviously not all of these will be prioritising fags over food but statistically a reasonable number will be if there are 3 million hungry kids in  the country.

There are many genuine cases where families need help and of course this should be provided but it is equally necessary to educate those feckless parents who feel entitled to their lifestyle choices while neglecting the needs of their children. And to dismiss those that raise this point as bigoted or Daily Mail readers does nothing to help the debate.


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## Raesy92 (Apr 26, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			So we should feel better that they are paying their share of tax rather than feeding their kids!  The Tax paying is a red herring, if someone pays tax out of an income provided from others tax then they are contributing nothing.
		
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My main point was that many on here are ignoring the fact that kids are in poverty, and are focusing on reasons that they believe make this 3,000,000 figure was mis-leading.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 26, 2017)

Raesy92 said:



			My main point was that many on here are ignoring the fact that kids are in poverty, and are focusing on reasons that they believe make this 3,000,000 figure was mis-leading.
		
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Just be grateful no one has suggested banning them from having pets and having the animals destroyed, then we'd see proper outrage,


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 26, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			What's no surprise is that certain people, who tend to have right wing views, choose to ignore the plight of millions of people suffering through poverty and instead fixate on those that are supposedly milking the system.
		
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I haven't read any post that ignores the plight of those suffering but it is a valid discussion to ask how much of that suffering is self inflicted through lifestyle choices made by the parents. As a parent my priorities are that my kids are fed, clothed and have a warm home to come back to. After that, if there is money left over, I might get a night out or a round of golf. But I certainly don't go off to the pub with my mates knowing that the fridge is empty and we can't afford to put the heating on. It's called understanding my responsibilities and if I wasn't prepared to give up certain things then I wouldn't have had children.


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## Raesy92 (Apr 26, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			I haven't read any post that ignores the plight of those suffering but it is a valid discussion to ask how much of that suffering is self inflicted through lifestyle choices made by the parents. As a parent my priorities are that my kids are fed, clothed and have a warm home to come back to. After that, if there is money left over, I might get a night out or a round of golf. But I certainly don't go off to the pub with my mates knowing that the fridge is empty and we can't afford to put the heating on. It's called understanding my responsibilities and if I wasn't prepared to give up certain things then I wouldn't have had children.
		
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So your suggestion for these kids is ...?

Also, do you think these parents had kids and thought ' i'm just gonna start smoking for the sake of it'. They've probably been brought up in a family that smokes, or been from a disadvantaged background and struggle to get out this lifestyle. 

The focus should be on educating the future generation so that in maybe 15-20 years time there will be less need to argue over bad parenting due to spending all their money on fags and booze.


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## Hacker Khan (Apr 26, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			I take it this is pointed at my post.  If you think my father being severely disabled fighting for his country a subject for derision then you really need to take some of your own medicine mate.  I'm out of this thread as it's not going anywhere sensible now.
		
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It was a mickey take agreeing with/responding to Richy's excellent post quoting Monty Python.  If you somehow want to take offence from me quoting Monty Python and think that I was referring to your father being severely disabled then perhaps best if you do get out of this thread.


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 26, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			I haven't read any post that ignores the plight of those suffering but it is a valid discussion to ask how much of that suffering is self inflicted through lifestyle choices made by the parents. As a parent my priorities are that my kids are fed, clothed and have a warm home to come back to. After that, if there is money left over, I might get a night out or a round of golf. But I certainly don't go off to the pub with my mates knowing that the fridge is empty and we can't afford to put the heating on. It's called understanding my responsibilities and if I wasn't prepared to give up certain things then I wouldn't have had children.
		
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You did it again !


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## Quadhole (Apr 26, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			Your are talking of life in the USA which is very different from the UK, especially with Welfare.     Do you have any experience of life in the UK?  It sound very much like you dont by your post.
		
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 Yes, I do, and poor are poor everywhere, just throwing in the tidbits that are here too...
A hard working family there does not make enough money working a regular job, period....
Golfers are a unique bunch, will give you that.... Yes, they should be able to smoke, and drink, and have nice things on ONE income of a guy that is an electrician, they did 40 years ago ? No ? Or is it that an electrician is different in the UK... (they do plumbing) ? and the plumber is an electrician ? Either way, they don't make enough money, neither do the factory workers... Because the owner now dictates how many billions he will keep... not enough regulation... Both sides...


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## Quadhole (Apr 26, 2017)

richy said:



			I'm not offended in the slightest. And again how am I on my high horse?
		
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Come over here and read posts... Have you even heard of the Koch Brothers ? THey now pay people to post in forums like this in America... You think you are chatting with someone that just doesn't care about people. You find out that it is paid posting by BIG OIL corps... Just like they help pay for Russia to mess up the election and vote in Trump..
The Rich are manipulating the poor via right wing propaganda... Followers as we call them here, are people with LOWER I.Q.'s and will follow a leader, someone that preaches what they want to hear... It really is sad that they are going to drive all the middle class (slowly) down to a LOW class and pocket more money along the way...

By the way, it is great to see that over there, so many still care about their fellow countrymen. Over here, very little left... They think if they do what Trump and the Republicans want, it will help them... Sad and stupid thinking...


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## Dasit (Apr 26, 2017)

Liberals in full outrage mode, throwing around daily mail and bigot insults.

How about some suggestions?

Every country has poverty. The UK has always had poverty. Maybe it it is just inevitable part of society.

Hopefully we do get universal income in the future, and parents spend the money feeding their kids nutrious diets. Until then what solutions do we have?

We bring in free school meals for all kids of a certain age and that brings the problems of parents need feeding their kids in the holidays.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Apr 26, 2017)

Dasit said:



			Every country has poverty. The UK has always had poverty. Maybe it it is just inevitable part of society.
		
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I guess were you in poverty then you'd just shrug your shoulders and go "well it's inevitable".

Nothing like a race to the bottom. 

Can we not assume that trying to get rid of poverty may actually be a good thing, or do we just accept it?


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## Dasit (Apr 26, 2017)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			I guess were you in poverty then you'd just shrug your shoulders and go "well it's inevitable".

Nothing like a race to the bottom. 

Can we not assume that trying to get rid of poverty may actually be a good thing, or do we just accept it?
		
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How about suggestions instead of little snidy remarks 

No one wants anyone to be in poverty


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## user2010 (Apr 27, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Spot on sir - someone *fictitious* once said - let us who is without sin cast the first stone
		
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Fixed that for you


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 27, 2017)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			I guess were you in poverty then you'd just shrug your shoulders and go "well it's inevitable".

Nothing like a race to the bottom. 

Can we not assume that trying to get rid of poverty may actually be a good thing, or do we just accept it?
		
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Perhaps we could follow the examples of the world's happiest countries.
http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/happiest-countries-in-the-world-2017.html


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 27, 2017)

As i see it - and through personal experience - children who are from families 2,3 or 4 generations unemployed or poor are cast in the mould of their predecessors - and will become yet another poverty and deprived statistic unless measures are taken to break the mould these children find themselves in.

And these measures are not the same as those required to help sort a problem child from a better off background.  There is no point in focussing on, and berating, the parents. The focus must be the child.  And what they need is help in understanding of the specific circumstances that has created their mould and then working out what will enable the child to break their mould and form their own personal - to be the person they can be - despite their background.

But that needs people, support, understanding and time - and that all requires money and resilience from government as they reject all the accusations that are hurled their way - accusations of wasting money on scroungers - the undeserving - the feckless and lazy; why them not us the taxpayers  I will go the relentless  cry.  The accusations may apply to some parents - they need not apply to the children. And the children are the future. Theirs and ours.


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 27, 2017)

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/9164

Perhaps this could help explain why our children are going hungry.


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## Old Skier (Apr 27, 2017)

Doon frae Troon said:



https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/9164

Perhaps this could help explain why our children are going hungry.
		
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Are you really inferring that is the reason.


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