# The world's gone mad!



## Slime (Mar 5, 2014)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26446213

If anyone is genuinely offended by Toni Duggan's actions I think they need to have a long, hard look at themselves ......................... or explain to me what was so offensive, I'm genuinely confused!


*Slime*.


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## Foxholer (Mar 5, 2014)

'Political Correctness' gone mad!


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## User20205 (Mar 5, 2014)

it in itself isn't offensive, it's what it represents. It shows poor judgement and a general lack of awareness IMO. 

It doesn't offend me at all, but it may do some because it represents a caricature, 

You could argue that golliwogs and the black & white minstrel show aren't offensive but they are no longer socially acceptable.


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## Foxholer (Mar 5, 2014)

therod said:



			it in itself isn't offensive, it's what it represents. It shows poor judgement and a general lack of awareness IMO. 

It doesn't offend me at all, but it may do some because it represents a caricature, 

You could argue that golliwogs and the black & white minstrel show aren't offensive but they are no longer socially acceptable.
		
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Gad! They'll be preventing kids from reading Enid Blyton and Mark Twain books soon!

Oh dear....Already done!

Charles Dickens and Shakespeare next?


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## Slime (Mar 5, 2014)

therod said:



			it in itself isn't offensive, it's what it represents. It shows poor judgement and a general lack of awareness IMO. 

*It doesn't offend me at all, but it may do some because it represents a caricature, *

You could argue that golliwogs and the black & white minstrel show aren't offensive but they are no longer socially acceptable.
		
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So Whoopi Goldberg may be offended, although I doubt it because she has a sense of humour and realises that that is all it was, but surely nobody else would be ........................... would they? 


*Slime*.


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## Hacker Khan (Mar 5, 2014)

I feel much the same as Mr Rod, great point about the distinction between offensive and socially acceptable.  

It doesn't really offend me, but 'blacking up' when you are an anti racism campaigner and ambassador for Kick it Out isn't the brightest thing to do.


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## Hacker Khan (Mar 5, 2014)

Slime said:



			So Whoopi Goldberg may be offended, although I doubt it because she has a sense of humour and realises that that is all it was, *but surely nobody else would be ........................... would they*? 


*Slime*.
		
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Well yes because there are people that get professionally offended by anything nowadays.  To be honest you are probably asking the wrong people here if it is offensive in that I imagine a vast majority of the forum readers are not black.  And therefore have little experience regarding this kind of thing and having to deal with the legacy of white people 'blacking up'.

In my opinion she's done something that *may* cause offence and is no longer socially acceptable, especially taking into account the position she's in. But she's said sorry now so move on and let her continue her good work in the anti racism campaign.  It's not really the world going mad but someone apologising for at best a silly, and at worst an offensive gesture.


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## JustOne (Mar 5, 2014)

I don't see why being ANY colour should be socially unacceptable - therefore I don't see why a white person can't masquerade as black and vice versa.... I even remember a film with Eddie Murphy where he played a couple of white folk, was that racist to do so? Halle Berry plays a white character in Cloud Atlas (recently released). People who are offended by this stuff need to take a good look at themselves IMO.

Is this racist?......


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## User20205 (Mar 5, 2014)

Slime said:



			So Whoopi Goldberg may be offended, although I doubt it because she has a sense of humour and realises that that is all it was, but surely nobody else would be ........................... would they? 


*Slime*.
		
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No I don't think whoopi cares. However if I was black and the same age I could remember the 'harmless' blacking up on the TV. It's a throw back and a reminder of a different age when attitudes to racial equality were different.

I'd make two points, of all the fancy dress out fits why this one? And when has blacking up ever been funny?

It's all a bit Jim Davidson!


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## Hacker Khan (Mar 5, 2014)

JustOne said:



			I don't see why being ANY colour should be socially unacceptable - therefore I don't see why a white person can't masquerade as black and vice versa....
		
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Because I believe it was done originally as black people were not allowed to 'act', so they got white people to black up.  Which I hope anyone would agree is not right as racism and discrimination were preventing black people from acting.  So it is more the connotations and legacy of the act of blacking up, rather then the act itself.

And surely it would be better that if it was a black character then get a black actor.  Or a white character then get a white actor. Why should anyone have to change the colour of their skin?


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## JustOne (Mar 5, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Because I believe it was done originally as black people were not allowed to 'act', so they got white people to black up.
		
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Whether that's the case or not now that black people CAN act (the racist 1970's element removed) it should no longer matter who does what.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 5, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			I feel much the same as Mr Rod, great point about the distinction between offensive and socially acceptable.  

It doesn't really offend me, but 'blacking up' when you are an anti racism campaigner and ambassador for Kick it Out isn't the brightest thing to do.
		
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Well I must be the only one on the planet that must think it is ok to dress up as someone else no matter what colour you are. Are we now to say that if your black, yellow, mixed race or any other colour than white you cannot dress up as Santa Claus. What a load of tosh.

There was no malice intended with this fancy dress costume so I cannot see the problem. Another nothing blown out of all proportion story by the PC brigade.


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## Hacker Khan (Mar 5, 2014)

JustOne said:



			Is this racist?......






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If it is a white actor that has blacked up then potentially.  If it is a black actor playing a character then no.


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## chrisd (Mar 5, 2014)

Well I was absolutely appalled!





...... Well to be honest I couldn't give a stuff but in today's ultra pc world, I didn't want to look like a dinosaur!


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## Foxholer (Mar 5, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			I feel much the same as Mr Rod, great point about the distinction between offensive and socially acceptable.  

It doesn't really offend me, but 'blacking up' when you are an anti racism campaigner and ambassador for Kick it Out isn't the brightest thing to do.
		
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So if she dressed up as a White person, fine, but as a Black person not bright? That sounds like Racism to me!


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## User20205 (Mar 5, 2014)

If you don't get it fine. It's not the act it's the association, blacking up is all about historic racial stereotyping. The black and white minstrels are stereotypes, golliwogs are stereotypes. To my knowledge there aren't the same white stereotypes with the same negative historical association or history of persecution.

Blacking up is an echo of that historical racial persecution, it's just really socially clumsy.

HK has a point, most of us aren't the demographic to be offended but why take the chance?


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## Tashyboy (Mar 5, 2014)

About 16 yr ago me and Missis tash adopted a girl. The process involving social services was painful, and certainly not slagging off all social workers, but are some of them born on planet numpty.

I/we was told that black equals, bad,evil, and nothing to do with good at all and was asked to try to think of an example where black equates to good. In half a second I said " I wish my bank account was in the black". I was told that was a one off. I told her the black ball in snooker is the most valuable. I tried saying that black can be construed as bad but not everyone thinks that way. She was having non of it.

i was asked to name a famous black sports person. I said tiger woods. Get this she got mad with me and said I was not taking this serious. She had never heard of him. She asked do I/we have any black friends my wife works for the NHS and has hundreds of friends from different backgrounds not just black. At that time when I worked at the pit. I had 2 coloured friends. When I said coloured I thought she was having an epileptic fit. She was black and not coloured. I was gobsmacked.

that weekend I asked bing ( a friend of the wife's through work)who is black and from Zimbabwe is he black or coloured coz I wanted to know what I had said was so wrong. He said don't call me black or coloured just cal me Bing. He said he is not bothered one bit if he is associated to black or coloured. It is how it is said that is the issue.

in this instance with a white woman dressing up as whoopie Goldberg no harm was intended.

re the social worker, Bing said I should of told her to get lost.

strangely enough me Bessie mate at work now is a mixed race white mother Jamacian father, we have had over the last eight years some right deep conversations re black and white and also gay issues. Yup me Bessie mate is gay. Let me tell you being Jamacian and gay is a massive massive no no and the hassle he has had off black friends is shocking.


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## freddielong (Mar 5, 2014)

Whatever happened to "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" all of a sudden its racist, surely pretending everyone looks exactly the same is more offensive


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## SocketRocket (Mar 5, 2014)

I am interested to know which of these statements you find racist and whether you feel any of them should be banned by law?

I dont like black people.
I dont like white people.
I dont like people from from the Caribbean.
I dont like French people.
I dont like Japanese people.
I dont like Asian people.
I dont like English people.
I dont like African people.
I dont like Jocks or Taffs.
I prefer the company of white people.
I dislike Muslims.
There are too many non-whites in the country.


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## Foxholer (Mar 5, 2014)

therod said:



			...The black and white minstrels are stereotypes, golliwogs are stereotypes.
		
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Those were 'offensive' stereotypes! Quite different to sincere copies which are not (offensive stereotype) 'blacking up' imo.  



therod said:



			To my knowledge there aren't the same white stereotypes with the same negative historical association or history of persecution.
		
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What has persecution got to do with it - that Racism hasn't! You can't erase the past, nor can/should you ignore it!

Read Shakespeare or Dickens, any Leon Uris historical novel - Exodus and Trinity for example! And it would be somewhat sexist to not mention the books of Dame Catherine Cookson! Plenty of stereotypical persecution in there!


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## User20205 (Mar 5, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Those were 'offensive' stereotypes! Quite different to sincere copies which are not (offensive stereotype) 'blacking up' imo.  



What has persecution got to do with it - that Racism hasn't! You can't erase the past, nor can/should you ignore it!

Read Shakespeare or Dickens, any Leon Uris historical novel - Exodus and Trinity for example! And it would be somewhat sexist to not mention the books of Dame Catherine Cookson! Plenty of stereotypical persecution in there!
		
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I don't care that much, I wouldn't dream of wearing a potentially offensive fancy dress outfit, if you would fill you boots.

You shouldn't ignore the past, nor should you perpetuate the apologist attitudes. 

Would you wear a nazi uniform ala prince Harry??? It's only a laugh.


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## User20205 (Mar 5, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			I am interested to know which of these statements you find racist and whether you feel any of them should be banned by law?

I dont like black people.
I dont like white people.
I dont like people from from the Caribbean.
I dont like French people.
I dont like Japanese people.
I dont like Asian people.
I dont like English people.
I dont like African people.
I dont like Jocks or Taffs.
I prefer the company of white people.
I dislike Muslims.
There are too many non-whites in the country.
		
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All of them are equally bigoted, and I never dream of saying them


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## SocketRocket (Mar 5, 2014)

therod said:



			All of them are equally bigoted, and I never dream of saying them
		
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That wasn't the question!


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## Tashyboy (Mar 5, 2014)

I was in the 19th the other day and asked one of the girls who is leaving to send us some piccies of her fat, thin, beautiful and ugly new mates, one of the other girls said "what do you mean fat friends". I won't mention her weight. Now living in a country where obesity is a bit of a problem, is saying someone's fat so wrong.

i tried explaining that I have fat, thin, gorgeous and like me butt ugly mates, some are white, black, mixed race etc etc. but the one thing they all have in common is they are all beautiful on the inside. Don't think it washed with her though coz I said the F word.


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## User20205 (Mar 5, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			That wasn't the question!
		
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There's no need to ban any of them. They are just opinion, it's behaviour that reflects the bigotry that against the law.

This is off topic, I don't know why you're using a post about a poor taste fancy dress outfit to demonstrate your persecution complex.


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## SocketRocket (Mar 5, 2014)

therod said:



			There's no need to ban any of them. They are just opinion, it's behaviour that reflects the bigotry that against the law.

This is off topic, I don't know why you're using a post about a poor taste fancy dress outfit to demonstrate your persecution complex.
		
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I was genuinely trying to understand what people found to be racist and offensive and where the law should intervene.  I believe there is a link there.

Regarding your last comment; I will put that down to your own persecution complex!


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## User20205 (Mar 5, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			I was genuinely trying to understand what people found to be racist and offensive and where the law should intervene.  I believe there is a link there.

Regarding your last comment; I will put that down to your own persecution complex!
		
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Cheers:thup:


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## Slime (Mar 5, 2014)

therod said:



			I don't care that much, *I wouldn't dream of wearing a potentially offensive fancy dress outfit*, if you would fill you boots.

You shouldn't ignore the past, nor should you perpetuate the apologist attitudes. 

*Would you wear a nazi uniform ala prince Harry??? It's only a laugh.*

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Any fancy dress costume is potentially offensive to someone ....................... they'll make sure of that!
The nazis killed millions of Jews, Whoopi Goldberg hasn't, subtle difference there!



SocketRocket said:



			I am interested to know which of these  statements you find racist and whether you feel any of them should be  banned by law?

I dont like black people.
I dont like white people.
I dont like people from from the Caribbean.
I dont like French people.
I dont like Japanese people.
I dont like Asian people.
I dont like English people.
I dont like African people.
*I dont like Jocks or Taffs*.
I prefer the company of white people.
I dislike Muslims.
There are too many non-whites in the country.
		
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I find none of the above offensive but some may find the one in bold a bit rude, due to the use of slang.





therod said:



			All of them are equally bigoted, and I never dream of saying them
		
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They would be bigoted if, for instance, he'd said he didn't like black people *because* they were black, and he'd come across as pretty stupid too! 


*Slime*.


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## User20205 (Mar 5, 2014)

Slime said:



			Any fancy dress costume is potentially offensive to someone ....................... they'll make sure of that!
The nazis killed millions of Jews, Whoopi Goldberg hasn't, subtle difference there!






*Slime*.
		
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I don't know why, but that made me chuckle.  I've got an image of whoopi Goldberg planning genocide. It could happen!!


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## Foxholer (Mar 5, 2014)

therod said:



			Would you wear a nazi uniform ala prince Harry??? It's only a laugh.
		
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Visited Bletchley Park a while ago. There was a wedding where the Dress code was WWII Theme. Plenty of SS stuff on display there, along with a few Hitlers and a couple of Churchills!

Nobody was offended!


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## User20205 (Mar 5, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Visited Bletchley Park a while ago. There was a wedding where the Dress code was WWII Theme. Plenty of SS stuff on display there, along with a few Hitlers and a couple of Churchills!

Nobody was offended!
		
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That's kind of where I was going with it. I don't find the blacking up offensive, but I understand why it could be. I don't really find fancy dress nazi style offensive, but again understand why it could be. Which means in the event of a fancy dress shindig I'd go as something neutral, like maybe the prophet mohammed...surely no one would be offended by that


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## CMAC (Mar 5, 2014)

therod said:



*If you don't get it fine. It's not the act it's the association,* blacking up is all about historic racial stereotyping. The black and white minstrels are stereotypes, golliwogs are stereotypes. To my knowledge there aren't the same white stereotypes with the same negative historical association or history of persecution.

Blacking up is an echo of that historical racial persecution, it's just really socially clumsy.

HK has a point, most of us aren't the demographic to be offended but why take the chance?
		
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How else would you imitate Whoopi Goldberg? 



Myself and 4 friends dressed as the Jackson Five once for a 10 year celebration- we looked the dogs even though I say it myself- how could we imitate these legends without being accurate?


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## richart (Mar 5, 2014)

Presumably a white person can no longer impersonate a black one, and vice versa ? I didn't think it was a caricature, but just an impersonation. Surely a caricature is something grotesque, ludicrous, exaggeration etc.


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## User20205 (Mar 5, 2014)

richart said:



			Presumably a white person can no longer impersonate a black one, and vice versa ? I didn't think it was a caricature, but just an impersonation. Surely a caricature is something grotesque, ludicrous, exaggeration etc.
		
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It is just that, and if you think that it starts and ends with a impersonation of whoopi Goldberg that's fine, to me it potentially lends itself to something more. 

Why has she had to come out and apologised if it's innocent? 

You or I may not be offended, but someone will be and I can understand why.


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## User20205 (Mar 5, 2014)

CMAC said:



			How else would you imitate Whoopi Goldberg? 



Myself and 4 friends dressed as the Jackson Five once for a 10 year celebration- we looked the dogs even though I say it myself- how could we imitate these legends without being accurate?
		
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Subjective, and potentially poor taste. I wouldn't but if you felt comfortable...fair enough.


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## richart (Mar 5, 2014)

therod said:



			It is just that, and if you think that it starts and ends with a impersonation of whoopi Goldberg that's fine, to me it potentially lends itself to something more. 

Why has she had to come out and apologised if it's innocent? 

You or I may not be offended, but someone will be and I can understand why.
		
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 Sorry you have lost me. It is an impersonation of a character from a film. The reason she apologised is surely to stop the arguments back and forth, which will create  bad publicity. This does not mean she is in the wrong though, and pressure has no doubt been applied. Personally I think this political correctness should have stopped here, as this is not a racist act. If people want to think it is, that says more about them in my opinion.


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## chrisd (Mar 5, 2014)

therod said:



			Why has she had to come out and apologised if it's innocent?
		
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Possibly because it's easier to apologise than say " if you want to put a racist connotation to an innocent bit of fun, then it's you who have a problem" !


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## Slime (Mar 5, 2014)

therod said:



			It is just that, and if you think that it starts and ends with a impersonation of whoopi Goldberg that's fine, to me it potentially lends itself to something more. 

Why has she had to come out and apologised if it's innocent? 

You or I may not be offended, but someone will be *and I can understand why.*

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I can't, unless they have their own agenda, so please enlighten me.
Oh, and she apologised because she was undoubtedly told to.



therod said:



			Subjective, and potentially *poor taste.* I wouldn't but if you felt comfortable...fair enough.
		
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Why? 
I'm sorry, but I just don't understand why imitating The Jackson Five, as a celebration of their work, is in poor taste.
They weren't making fun of them, they were celebrating them! What's wrong with that?

*Slime*.


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## User20205 (Mar 5, 2014)

richart said:



			Sorry you have lost me. It is an impersonation of a character from a film. The reason she apologised is surely to stop the arguments back and forth, which will create  bad publicity. This does not mean she is in the wrong though, and pressure has no doubt been applied. Personally I think this political correctness should have stopped here, as this is not a racist act. If people want to think it is, that says more about them in my opinion.
		
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Maybe, but you or I aren't really qualified to judge if the act of blacking up is offensive or not. It's  not just about whoopi, it's about how that can be interpreted. 

No one is saying that blacking up is in itself racist, but it's historically been associated with a negative portrayal of race and is on slightly dodgy ground IMO.


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## richart (Mar 5, 2014)

chrisd said:



			Possibly because it's easier to apologise than say " if you want to put a racist connotation to an innocent bit of fun, then it's you who have a problem" !
		
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 I must be getting old, I am agreeing with Chris.


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## User20205 (Mar 5, 2014)

chrisd said:



			Possibly because it's easier to apologise than say " if you want to put a racist connotation to an innocent bit of fun, then it's you who have a problem" !
		
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Honestly I'm no right on campaigner, I just think you've got to be sensitive to others interpretation of an act like this.

Maybe it's a generational thing!!

Why is blacking up/dressing up as the Jackson 5 funny??


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## Foxholer (Mar 5, 2014)

therod said:





CMAC said:



			...Myself and 4 friends ...
		
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Subjective, and potentially poor taste....
		
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Also, far worse imo, abysmal grammar!


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## richart (Mar 5, 2014)

therod said:



			Honestly I'm no right on campaigner, I just think you've got to be sensitive to others interpretation of an act like this.
		
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 Interesting if you look up the definition of a racist. All the ones I have read say that it is a person who believes that a certain race is superior to another race. Where does impersonating someone come close to this definition. People are interpreting actions as racist, when the only offence may be at worst bad taste. Let's concentrate on outing the real racists, rather than trying to put innocent people into that disgusting group.


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 5, 2014)

So why is nobody having a go at the lass in the Ginger Wig and the Union Jack dress? she has done exactly the same thing by changing something about herself to impersonate a famous person/character, I dont see any Ginger haired people upset, 

Im not seeing any black people upset either, just some politically correct FA official on a backside covering exercise

definately a mountain out of a molehill


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## richart (Mar 5, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Im not seeing any black people upset either, just some politically correct FA official on a backside covering exercise

definately a mountain out of a molehill
		
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 Which doesn't help the anti racism cause in my opinion.


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## User20205 (Mar 5, 2014)

richart said:



			Interesting if you look up the definition of a racist. All the ones I have read say that it is a person who believes that a certain race is superior to another race. Where does impersonating someone come close to this definition. People are interpreting actions as racist, when the only offence may be at worst bad taste. Let's concentrate on outing the real racists, rather than trying to put innocent people into that disgusting group.
		
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Absolutely:thup:

There's also an issue though sometimes with seemingly light hearted acts like this being used by others to legitimise more sinister beliefs. 

Re the ginger question, you're  right Phil.  I for one long to see the day when our ginger brothers and sisters have the yoke of persecution lifted from their pasty skinned shoulders :thup:


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## Siren (Mar 5, 2014)

I think the world has indeed gone mad.


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## CMAC (Mar 6, 2014)

therod said:



			Subjective, and potentially poor taste. I wouldn't but if you felt comfortable...fair enough.
		
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seriously? your on a wind up, right?



therod said:



			Honestly I'm no right on campaigner, I just think you've got to be sensitive to others interpretation of an act like this.

Maybe it's a generational thing!!

*Why is blacking up/dressing up as the Jackson 5 funny??*

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who said anything about it being funny? 

you are making light of the people Phil mentioned so your only affronted by the act of imitating anyone with black skin?


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## SocketRocket (Mar 6, 2014)

therod said:



			Absolutely:thup:

There's also an issue though sometimes with seemingly light hearted acts like this being used by others to legitimise more sinister beliefs. 

Re the ginger question, you're  right Phil.  I for one long to see the day when our ginger brothers and sisters have the yoke of persecution lifted from their pasty skinned shoulders :thup:
		
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Have you seriously considered therapy?   It may well be to do with you finding your Teddy Bear floating face down in the pool!


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## chrisd (Mar 6, 2014)

therod said:



			There's also an issue though sometimes with seemingly light hearted acts like this being used by others to legitimise more sinister beliefs. 

:
		
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There are also some people with seemingly light hearted acts like this who are being light hearted!


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## User20205 (Mar 6, 2014)

morning gents 



CMAC said:



			seriously? your on a wind up, right?



who said anything about it being funny? 

you are making light of the people Phil mentioned so your only affronted by the act of imitating anyone with black skin?
		
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I presumed Phil was joking, I must have missed the bit at school that highlighted the historical persecution of the gingers, and connotations there  in



SocketRocket said:



			Have you seriously considered therapy?   It may well be to do with you finding your Teddy Bear floating face down in the pool!
		
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To be fair mate, I don't think we're on that same page on subjects like this. Your views are pretty apparent and we're never going to agree.



chrisd said:



			There are also some people with seemingly light hearted acts like this who are being light hearted!
		
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I do however agree in the main with rational fellas like yourself & Rich, Chris.

My point is why take the risk of offending.

I'm not saying her actions were sinister, just misguided. For which she has righly apologised.
'
Kick it out are keeping her as an ambassador, because they probably rightly believe it's been blown out of proportion.

But....it's not acceptable, in the 21st century, to black up for a laugh and think no one will be offended. It sounds dodgy, it is dodgy and anyone that does it deserves to have their judgement questioned  at the very least.

The thing I don't really get is that she's 22. Sister Act from memory was released in about 1994. Why is she dressing up as a charecter from an average film from around the time of her birth.


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## User20205 (Mar 6, 2014)

chrisd said:



			There are also some people with seemingly light hearted acts like this who are being light hearted!
		
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I have just realised though, maybe there is a certain hypocrisy to what I am saying

http://youtu.be/s2F4ZWTjwTU

I used to love this on league of gentlemen, I'm confused now!!

Obviously I'm too grown up and leftie to laugh at it now, and I thoroughly disapprove of my previous self


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## chrisd (Mar 6, 2014)

therod said:



			I do however agree in the main with rational fellas like yourself & Rich, Chris.

My point is why take the risk of offending.

I'm not saying her actions were sinister, just misguided. For which she has righly apologised.
'
Kick it out are keeping her as an ambassador, because they probably rightly believe it's been blown out of proportion.

But....it's not acceptable, in the 21st century, to black up for a laugh and think no one will be offended. It sounds dodgy, it is dodgy and anyone that does it deserves to have their judgement questioned  at the very least.

The thing I don't really get is that she's 22. Sister Act from memory was released in about 1994. Why is she dressing up as a charecter from an average film from around the time of her birth.
		
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Honestly, there are too many people looking for the meaning behind the act. Sometimes you just have to accept that some people don't have an agenda!

As the OP says " the world's gone mad", it has, but it's "pc mad", all we look for today is to protect people from being offended who actually are completely ambivalent to what has happened.  something is said on a radio/tv show and thousands of people who never saw or heard the broadcast complain about the transmission. For sure we were guilty of racism back in the late 50's and 60's when I grew up but things have changed out of all proportion since then and, whilst I am sure it still exists today it's much less prevalent, but I don't think stories like the fancy dress party actually help eradicate racism because, if you look for some thing offensive in an act you probably can find it despite the fact that you might have to twist the truth a little ( by YOU, I don't mean you personally Rod)


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## Baldy Bouncer (Mar 6, 2014)

*sighs* You just can`t call a spade a spade anymore these days......:rofl:


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## User20205 (Mar 6, 2014)

Baldy Bouncer said:



			*sighs* You just can`t call a spade a spade anymore these days......:rofl:
		
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Really?? Well done mate.


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## Baldy Bouncer (Mar 6, 2014)

therod said:



			Really?? Well done mate. 

Click to expand...


Whoooooosh!!!!


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## User20205 (Mar 6, 2014)

Baldy Bouncer said:



			Whoooooosh!!!!

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Why don't you attempt to explain it then ??

It's subtle irony is obviously too much for me


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## Siren (Mar 6, 2014)

When I was 12 I went to a Birthday party dressed up as Axel Foley out of Beverly Hills cop and put a little bit of coal soot on my face was I being racist? 

My 12 year old Muslim friend and his family didnt seem to think so, or were they hiding their disgust?

He did move to America a few months later though.........


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## User20205 (Mar 6, 2014)

Siren said:



			When I was 12 I went to a Birthday party dressed up as Axel Foley out of Beverly Hills cop and put a little bit of coal soot on my face was I being racist? 

My 12 year old Muslim friend and his family didnt seem to think so, or were they hiding their disgust?

He did move to America a few months later though.........
		
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We've covered that off mate, it's entirely subjective, but may cause offence. Are the offended over sensitive..maybe, but why chance it in 2014.

I'm still waiting for an explanation from Bernard Manning


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## Rumpokid (Mar 6, 2014)

No...Not offended by this.Typical knee jerk reaction..Whoever the England spokesperson is,ought to grow a a pair and say it was what it was..A fancy dress night out. Nothing more. Everything these days is over scrutinised,and looked into far to much..


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## Siren (Mar 6, 2014)

therod said:



			We've covered that off mate, it's entirely subjective, but may cause offence. Are the offended over sensitive..maybe, but why chance it in 2014.

I'm still waiting for an explanation from Bernard Manning

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Must have missed it while reading the thread last night. I blame the bottle of red.

Still Axel Foley was cool as ..... :thup:


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 6, 2014)

So to be safe, we can only dress up as imaginary characters or famous people from our own ethnic background

Looks like I'm in the clear then :ears:


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## USER1999 (Mar 6, 2014)

Is it still ok to blue up, and pretend to be a smurf?


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## Imurg (Mar 6, 2014)

Siren said:



			I think the world has indeed gone mad.
		
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Sorry Mate - The World went mad a looooooooong time ago.


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 6, 2014)

murphthemog said:



			Is it still ok to blue up, and pretend to be a smurf?
		
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If that's what floats your boat Murph, go right ahead, Of course if you went dressed as Smurfette you would be labeled a total perv and banished from polite society


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 6, 2014)

You know, it never ceases to amaze me on here when people start trying to tell others that something isn't offensive.

As theRod (good job :thup has tried to explain it's all very subjective. What I don't understand is anyone who, on being told something is offensive, turns round and berates someone for being offended. 

In this specific example, whether you find it offensive or not, it's pretty common knowledge that white people "blacking up" is pretty offensive to many black people. Not just for the act itself but within a historical context of oppression, persecution and abuse. The only reason for anyone to do it is ignorance, stupidity or to deliberately cause offence. Clearly an anti-racism campaigner has just made a mistake and its good that an apology is sufficient for her to move on.

I've said it before, but here goes. The vast majority of straight, white men have simply no concept of what it's like to be on the receiving end of prejudice or discrimination. What you perceive as a harmless joke is often grossly offensive in a wider context.

The much derided "political correctness" is a wonderful thing until our society (hopefully) can achieve "actual correctness" and prejudice and discrimination become just forgotten echoes of the past. 


You may now proceed to abuse me for my opinion.....


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## cookelad (Mar 6, 2014)

I'm too worried about offending someone/anyone/everyone to post on this thread!


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## Maninblack4612 (Mar 6, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			No...Not offended by this.Typical knee jerk reaction..Whoever the England spokesperson is,ought to grow a a pair and say it was what it was..A fancy dress night out. Nothing more. Everything these days is over scrutinised,and looked into far to much..
		
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Agree completely. No reasonable person, black white or any other colour, would give it a second thought. And the costume & makeup were first class. Poor girl, subjected to all this crap by a bunch of people who have no cause to be offended.


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## Rooter (Mar 6, 2014)

On a stag do a few years ago, the stag was a huge MC Hammer fan in the 90's, so he got blacked up and dressed as the hammer and hit cardiff city centre. We all thought it was very funny etc, about 15 minutes later he is in the nearest pub toilets washing his face. Seems what we deemed a harmless act of fancy dress had offended a number of locals (all races gave him abuse!) maybe because it was cardiff city centre on a sat night, but either way it was deemed a "mis-judgement" by ourselves.

Personally, i wouldnt give a monkies uncle what you dress up as, i dont offend easily! however, if you are a campaigner for anti-racism and in the public eye, its probably not the best idea she has ever had...


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## Hacker Khan (Mar 6, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			You know, it never ceases to amaze me on here when people start trying to tell others that something isn't offensive.

As theRod (good job :thup has tried to explain it's all very subjective. What I don't understand is anyone who, on being told something is offensive, turns round and berates someone for being offended. 

In this specific example, whether you find it offensive or not, it's pretty common knowledge that white people "blacking up" is pretty offensive to many black people. Not just for the act itself but within a historical context of oppression, persecution and abuse. The only reason for anyone to do it is ignorance, stupidity or to deliberately cause offence. Clearly an anti-racism campaigner has just made a mistake and its good that an apology is sufficient for her to move on.

I've said it before, but here goes. The vast majority of straight, white men have simply no concept of what it's like to be on the receiving end of prejudice or discrimination. What you perceive as a harmless joke is often grossly offensive in a wider context.

*The much derided "political correctness" is a wonderful thing until our society (hopefully) can achieve "actual correctness" and prejudice and discrimination become just forgotten echoes of the past. *


You may now proceed to abuse me for my opinion.....
		
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No abuse from me and I totally agree with everything you said, the bit I highlighted is superb, so if you did not copy paste it from somewhere else, well done.  

And I do find it funny/ironic/very depressing that *some *people can't see a problem with people blacking up in 2014 but say that wearing jeans or using a mobile phone on a golf course is totally out of order.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 6, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			No abuse from me and I totally agree with everything you said, the bit I highlighted is superb, so if you did not copy paste it from somewhere else, well done.
		
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Shucks! All my own words....


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## chrisd (Mar 6, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			The much derided "political correctness" is a wonderful thing until our society (hopefully) can achieve "actual correctness" and prejudice and discrimination become just forgotten echoes of the past.
		
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But the problem is - who's actual correctness?


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## Slime (Mar 6, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			You know, it never ceases to amaze me on here when people start trying to tell others that something isn't offensive.

As theRod (good job :thup has tried to explain it's all very subjective. What I don't understand is anyone who, on being told something is offensive, turns round and berates someone for being offended. 

In this specific example, whether you find it offensive or not, it's pretty common knowledge that white people "blacking up" is pretty offensive to many black people. Not just for the act itself but within a historical context of oppression, persecution and abuse. *The only reason for anyone to do it is ignorance, stupidity or to deliberately cause offence.* Clearly an anti-racism campaigner has just made a mistake and its good that an apology is sufficient for her to move on.

I've said it before, but here goes. The vast majority of straight, white men have simply no concept of what it's like to be on the receiving end of prejudice or discrimination. What you perceive as a harmless joke is often grossly offensive in a wider context.

The much derided "political correctness" is a wonderful thing until our society (hopefully) can achieve "actual correctness" and prejudice and discrimination become just forgotten echoes of the past. 


You may now proceed to abuse me for my opinion.....
		
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What utter rubbish.


*Slime*.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 6, 2014)

chrisd said:



			But the problem is - who's actual correctness?
		
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It's a pretty hippy concept where we all just take people as we find them and, sort of, "get along". Don't expect to see it in my lifetime.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 6, 2014)

@therod has got it right for me.  I don't find it offensive but might question why she chose Whoopi Goldberg - not the most obvious of choice for a fancy dress party unless you think it funny provoking comments of (highly dubious) nature such as 'haha - you is dressed up as a black person when you is white - haha'.   I don't get her thinking - unless she was cunning and thought she'd dress up and disguise herself as someone who dresses up and disguises herself.  

So the 'blacking up' bit is just rather thoughtless and in somewhat poor taste given all the historical connotations @therod has covered.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 6, 2014)

Slime said:



			What utter rubbish.


*Slime*.
		
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Och, with a wee winking smiley I'd have thought you were being deliberately ironic. Never mind.


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## chrisd (Mar 6, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			It's a pretty hippy concept where we all just take people as we find them and, sort of, "get along". Don't expect to see it in my lifetime.
		
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You won't see it in anyone's lifetime.

 Hippy concept is basically everyone is the same and it therefore could be communist ideal or, God forbid, North Korea. The great thing about humans is that we are all different and think and act differently too. One man's racist comment is another man's fair comment and that's how it will ever be!


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## Hacker Khan (Mar 6, 2014)

chrisd said:



			You won't see it in anyone's lifetime.

 Hippy concept is basically everyone is the same and it therefore could be communist ideal or, God forbid, North Korea.
		
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I hear you, I mean that Kim Jon-Un never shuts up about peace, love and understanding.  Well apart from when he's killing his uncle and deputy leaders.   And as for Stalin, what a pot smoking kaftan wearing hippie he was.  And I always get Stalin and Neil from The Young Ones mixed up.


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## User20205 (Mar 6, 2014)

chrisd said:



			You won't see it in anyone's lifetime.

 Hippy concept is basically everyone is the same and it therefore could be communist ideal or, God forbid, North Korea. The great thing about humans is that we are all different and think and act differently too. One man's racist comment is another man's fair comment and that's how it will ever be!
		
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It's moved on a bit from the op, but that to me chris sounds a bit like acceptance. Some attitudes can never be accepted, like the one displayed in post 54. 

Seems like they are on here though, criticise a Mod and you're banned, post using racist language left up

It's ok he was trying to be funny, it was only ironically racist FFS


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 6, 2014)

chrisd said:



			You won't see it in anyone's lifetime.

 Hippy concept is basically everyone is the same and it therefore could be communist ideal or, God forbid, North Korea. The great thing about humans is that we are all different and think and act differently too. One man's racist comment is another man's fair comment and that's how it will ever be!
		
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I'm not for a minute suggesting that everyone should be the same, heaven forbid! Just that everyone should be aware that everyone is different and that those differences cease to be an issue between us. And, in my hippy ideal, it's just because everyone is comfortable enough in their own skin that the differences simply don't matter.


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## Foxholer (Mar 6, 2014)

chrisd said:





FairwayDodger said:



			It's a pretty hippy concept where we all just take people as we find them and, sort of, "get along". Don't expect to see it in my lifetime.
		
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You won't see it in anyone's lifetime.

 Hippy concept is basically everyone is the same and it therefore could be communist ideal or, God forbid, North Korea. The great thing about humans is that we are all different and think and act differently too. One man's racist comment is another man's fair comment and that's how it will ever be!
		
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Bit of a leap from hippy 'communal' approach to the North Korean (or Stalinist) 'communist' way!

But as the (Male) Human Race's main drivers seem to be Greed and Sex, possibly disguised as other terms, I certainly see it ever happening!


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## chrisd (Mar 6, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			I'm not for a minute suggesting that everyone should be the same, heaven forbid! Just that everyone should be aware that everyone is different and that those differences cease to be an issue between us. And, in my hippy ideal, it's just because everyone is comfortable enough in their own skin that the differences simply don't matter.
		
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To be honest, I think that we all agree with that, but, it's so difficult in a world where everyone has opinions, talks differently and has widely varying opinions on what is acceptable to say or do. Even on the most innocuous of subjects on the forum we often get to infractions! I never cease to be amazed at some views and how radical they are even on a golf forum.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 6, 2014)

chrisd said:



			To be honest, I think that we all agree with that, but, it's so difficult in a world where everyone has opinions, talks differently and has widely varying opinions on what is acceptable to say or do. Even on the most innocuous of subjects on the forum we often get to infractions! I never cease to be amazed at some views and how radical they are even on a golf forum.
		
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Indeed. Probably useful for all of us to see some diverse opinions, whether we agree with them or not. As long as we keep it civilised!


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## richart (Mar 6, 2014)

therod said:



			It's moved on a bit from the op, but that to me chris sounds a bit like acceptance. Some attitudes can never be accepted, like the one displayed in post 54. 

Seems like they are on here though, criticise a Mod and you're banned, post using racist language left up

It's ok he was trying to be funny, it was only ironically racist FFS

Click to expand...

 The remark in post 54 should be deleted. Sounds to me like a quote from 'Love thy neighbour'. That is what we had to put up with in the 70's.

It shows though that racism is being lost amongst these non racist acts. Can no one see the wood for the trees here. At football matches racist chants, banana throwing goes on across Europe with little or no action. A young women that supports an anti racist cause, putting her money where her mouth is, gets all this bad publicity for at worst in my mind an error of judgement.

Does as a white women she think she is superior to a black one. Of course not. Now the BNP that is another matter.


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## chrisd (Mar 6, 2014)

richart said:



			The remark in post 54 should be deleted. Sounds to me like a quote from 'Love thy neighbour'. That is what we had to put up with in the 70's.
		
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I agree that it should be deleted

Love thy neighbour and Till death do us part would be an absolute no no these days, and rightly so. However, the fact was that the bigots in both programme's both actually were the ones who came out looking the idiots given the careful writing and acting.

 As a member of the older generation I have seen that offence can be easily taken, and was clearly done so, by ethnic minorities over many years and these days we are more enlightened to the plight of people from different backgrounds, sexual orientation etc and we, by and large, understand the need to be more careful in what we say and do, but, I do get brassed off when the main complainants are from do gooders who are just looking to be the thought police for other people who probably wouldn't themselves care a jot over an issue.


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## Slime (Mar 6, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			@therod has got it right for me.  I don't find it offensive but might question *why she chose Whoopi Goldberg* - not the most obvious of choice for a fancy dress party unless you think it funny provoking comments of (highly dubious) nature such as 'haha - you is dressed up as a black person when you is white - haha'.   I don't get her thinking - unless she was cunning and thought she'd dress up and disguise herself as someone who dresses up and disguises herself.  

So the 'blacking up' bit is just rather thoughtless and in somewhat poor taste given all the historical connotations @therod has covered.
		
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Why not? 
Can white people only go to fancy dress parties as whites and coloured people only go as coloureds?
If a coloured friend of mine went as a white person I'd find it hilarious, not offensive!


*Slime*.


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## Hacker Khan (Mar 6, 2014)

Slime said:



			Why not? 
Can white people only go to fancy dress parties as whites and coloured people only go as coloureds?
If a coloured friend of mine went as a white person I'd find it hilarious, not offensive!


*Slime*.
		
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Think you'll find the word 'coloured' is a bit 1970s and not the term used nowadays and is considered as a bit offensive by the people you are referring to.  

I know, I know, political correctness gone mad, and they are indeed coloured as opposed to non coloured people who are see through, and any right thinking coloured person would not be offended by this term, blah blah blah.  But them's the breaks.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2014)

Can see why some people would be offended by the fancy dress choice and they are entitled to be offended by that.

When it comes to what is offensive there is no right or wrong answer IMO.


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## Slime (Mar 6, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



*Think you'll find the word 'coloured' is a bit 1970s and not the term used nowadays and is considered as a bit offensive by the people you are referring to.  *

I know, I know, political correctness gone mad, and they are indeed coloured as opposed to non coloured people who are see through, and any right thinking coloured person would not be offended by this term, blah blah blah.  But them's the breaks.
		
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So what do we call people that are non-white without offending them ................ non-whites?


*Slime*.


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## freddielong (Mar 6, 2014)

I fail to see how she could have dressed as Whoopi without blacking her face surely to say she could not dress up as Whoopi due to the colour of her skin is racist. 

I can see how dressing up as a non white in a generic way such as a golli wog is offensive as it carries the implication that they are all the same, but I cannot see the offense in d ressing as an individual.


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## CMAC (Mar 6, 2014)

freddielong said:



			I fail to see how she could have dressed as Whoopi without blacking her face surely to say she could not dress up as Whoopi due to the colour of her skin is racist. 

I can see how dressing up as a non white in a generic way such as a golli wog is offensive as it carries the implication that they are all the same, but I cannot see the offense in d ressing as an individual.
		
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Exactly! as has been said many times on this thread. But certain individuals want to hang a thousand years of oppression on it and insist a white person cannot imitate, even if it's to celebrate, a non white.

If she didnt imitate Whoopi Goldberg she would just be a girl in a nuns habit but she wanted to imitate a character (thats key here) from well known and loved movies.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2014)

Just because some people can't see the offence it "could" cause doesn't mean the offence to some isn't possible.


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## Imurg (Mar 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just because some people can't see the offence it "could" cause doesn't mean the offence to some isn't possible.
		
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The problem with that line is that absolutely anything and everything will be offensive to someone somewhere at some time.....


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## freddielong (Mar 6, 2014)

People can take offence to anything it doesn't automatically mean the other person is wrong


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2014)

Imurg said:



			The problem with that line is that absolutely anything and everything will be offensive to someone somewhere at some time.....
		
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Yes there will be - obviously there will be levels of offence etc but I believe we need to be a bit more aware and possibly tolerant of others but being careful not to go too far. 

It's like people being offended by Jimmy Carr or any comedian at a concert or telly - simple answer - if it's offends you then don't watch him. But when it comes to emotive subject like the colour of someone's skin then we must never ever forget the oppression that people faced in history and certain things will drag up that history.

If someone of the same colour of Whoopi Goldberg took offence to the fancy dress and brought up history of minstrels and gollywogs etc then we surely must see and accept the possibility of the offence it could cause.

Obviously the young lady didn't dress up to cause any offence but it seems she is aware of the offence it could cause.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2014)

freddielong said:



			People can take offence to anything it doesn't automatically mean the other person is wrong
		
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Correct but it also doesn't automatically mean the people can't feel offence also - maybe we need to be a little bit more aware


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## Slime (Mar 6, 2014)

freddielong said:



*I fail to see how she could have dressed as Whoopi without blacking her face surely to say she could not dress up as Whoopi due to the colour of her skin is racist. *

I can see how dressing up as a non white in a generic way such as a golli wog is offensive as it carries the implication that they are all the same, but I cannot see the offense in dressing as an individual.
		
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I totally agree, who wouldn't?



Liverpoolphil said:



*Just because some people can't see the offence it "could" cause doesn't mean the offence to some isn't possible.*

Click to expand...

How is attending a fancy dress party as Whoopi Goldberg offensive?
The poor girl was not mocking Whoopi Goldberg, merely imitating her. She's an anti-racist campaigner for goodness' sake. 
Has she offended just coloured people or has she offended religious people too? 
I think that maybe just some people choose to be offended ..................... and I mean just some.


*Slime*.


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## richart (Mar 6, 2014)

I feel that people are taking offence in this case, after they have been told by certain people it is potentially racist. Have any black groups taken offence, or is it white people taking offence on their behalf ? I would be interested to know, as I haven't heard any response from a single black person.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2014)

Slime said:



			I totally agree, who wouldn't?



How is attending a fancy dress party as Whoopi Goldberg offensive?
The poor girl was not mocking Whoopi Goldberg, merely imitating her. She's an anti-racist campaigner for goodness' sake. 
Has she offended just coloured people or has she offended religious people too? 
I think that maybe just some people choose to be offended ..................... and I mean just some.


*Slime*.
		
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I believe you have missed the point very clearly. No one has suggested she has offended anyone.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2014)

richart said:



			I feel that people are taking offence in this case, after they have been told by certain people it is potentially racist. Have any black groups taken offence, or is it white people taking offence on their behalf ? I would be interested to know, as I haven't heard any response from a single black person.
		
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I know a black person who finds it offensive still to see people "black" up. But he understands that when it happens in this occasion he can see that person is intending to cause any offence


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## richart (Mar 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I know a black person who finds it offensive still to see people "black" up. But he understands that when it happens in this occasion he can see that person is intending to cause any offence
		
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 I understand being offended by 'blacking up' for the sake of it. To me though this is someone imitating a black actress playing a role in a film. I would imagine like a lot of people, the women in question is a Whoopie Goldberg fan, or at least a fan of the film. Nothing sinister, except perhaps in the minds of people that are looking for something that is not there.

Love to know what Whoopie Goldberg thinks of this. Hopefully someone will ask her.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2014)

richart said:



			I understand being offended by 'blacking up' for the sake of it. To me though this is someone imitating a black actress playing a role in a film. I would imagine like a lot of people, the women in question is a Whoopie Goldberg fan, or at least a fan of the film. Nothing sinister, except perhaps in the minds of people that are looking for something that is not there.

Love to know what Whoopie Goldberg thinks of this. Hopefully someone will ask her.
		
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I have no doubt that the young lady meant no offence and nothing sinister at all but I'm can't ever question or judge my friend if he finds it offensive and I can understand that


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## freddielong (Mar 6, 2014)

I would go as far as to say your friend is being to sensitive and has no reason to be offended


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2014)

freddielong said:



			I would go as far as to say your friend is being to sensitive and has no reason to be offended
		
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Without being presumptuous - what colour is your skin ? If it's white then I'm not sure you or even myself are in any position to judge about what he feels to be offended unless we have walked in his shoes for a day because I can guarantee he has witnessed racist behaviour towards the colour of his skin on a weekly basis and still does now. So maybe he has a reason to be offended and maybe we won't understand that


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## Slime (Mar 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I believe you have missed the point very clearly. *No one has suggested she has offended anyone.*

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That IS my whole point, hence starting this thread with the title that I did.


*Slime*.

P.S. Welcome back Phil, genuinely :thup:.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 6, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			And surely it would be better that if it was a black character then get a black actor.  Or a white character then get a white actor. Why should anyone have to change the colour of their skin?
		
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But wouldn't that in itself be inherently racist to choose someone for a role based on the colour of their skin rather than choosing the best actor for the job?


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## richart (Mar 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I have no doubt that the young lady meant no offence and nothing sinister at all but I'm can't ever question or judge my friend if he finds it offensive and I can understand that
		
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 I agree, although I have a black mate I have known for 30 years that has taken no offence. He also thinks it trivialises racism, and detracts from the real problem of racists that he meets on a regular basis. Blacks and whites should be coming together, and this sort of outcry seems to me to be pushing them further apart. Yes individuals may be offended, but I think we need to look at the bigger picture.

Small fines for football clubs in Europe, that have blatant racist fans does not help. To me that is the bigger picture.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2014)

richart said:



			I agree, although I have a black mate I have known for 30 years that has taken no offence. He also thinks it trivialises racism, and detracts from the real problem of racists that he meets on a regular basis. Blacks and whites should be coming together, and this sort of outcry seems to me to be pushing them further apart. Yes individuals may be offended, but I think we need to look at the bigger picture.

Small fines for football clubs in Europe, that have blatant racist fans does not help. To me that is the bigger picture.
		
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Totally agree 100% mate 

Agree that the outcry is wrong and overboard 

The UEFA/FIFA fines are a disgusting disgrace that boils my blood. 

But on this incident I'm just aware that some people could find it offensive and am just aware of that when I do or say things


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## richart (Mar 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Totally agree 100% mate 

Agree that the outcry is wrong and overboard 

The UEFA/FIFA fines are a disgusting disgrace that boils my blood. 

But on this incident I'm just aware that some people could find it offensive and am just aware of that when I do or say things
		
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 Fair point. 

I think this thread shows that the majority have strong anti racist views, it is just where you draw the line that is open to conjecture.

I remember going to Reading matches in the 80's, when supporters would shout racist remarks at the oppositions black players, but chant the name in support of our black players.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2014)

richart said:



			Fair point. 

I think this thread shows that the majority have strong anti racist views, it is just where you draw the line that is open to conjecture.

I remember going to Reading matches in the 80's, when supporters would shout racist remarks at the oppositions black players, but chant the name in support of our black players.

Click to expand...



That line will always be open to conjecture mate 

It's hard to judge hence why I believe it's safer not too . I always think that's it's impossible to understand how it feels to be racially abused as never been on the end of it but have witnessed it and still do and it disgusts me.


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## Hacker Khan (Mar 6, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			But wouldn't that in itself be inherently racist to choose someone for a role based on the colour of their skin rather than choosing the best actor for the job?
		
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It is racist in the same way it is sexist to chose a woman to play a female role and a man to play a male role.  Instead of getting Daniel Day Lewis to put a dress on and scream '_I'm a lady' _for any female roles.


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## freddielong (Mar 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Without being presumptuous - what colour is your skin ? If it's white then I'm not sure you or even myself are in any position to judge about what he feels to be offended unless we have walked in his shoes for a day because I can guarantee he has witnessed racist behaviour towards the colour of his skin on a weekly basis and still does now. So maybe he has a reason to be offended and maybe we won't understand that
		
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I am now offended you are treating your friend differently due to the colour of his skin which is racist


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2014)

freddielong said:



			I am now offended you are treating your friend differently due to the colour of his skin which is racist
		
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Excuse me ? 

Would prefer if you removed or retracted that comment please - especially referring to racist behaviour

My friend gets treated like my friend - the colour of his skin has nothing to do with how I treat him


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2014)

freddielong said:



			I am now offended you are treating your friend differently due to the colour of his skin which is racist
		
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Mods

Can I have this post suggesting racist behaviour removed please

Thank you


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## freddielong (Mar 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Excuse me ? 

Would prefer if you removed or retracted that comment please - especially referring to racist behaviour

My friend gets treated like my friend - the colour of his skin has nothing to do with how I treat him
		
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I was just pointing out that you made an assumption of my skin colour and then said your friend was entitled to a different view purely down to his skin colour which is also racism


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 6, 2014)

freddielong said:



			I was just pointing out that you made an assumption of my skin colour and then said your friend was entitled to a different view purely down to his skin colour which is also racism
		
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Sorry I'm not interested and have made posted feelings about your comment


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## Foxholer (Mar 6, 2014)

freddielong said:



			I was just pointing out that you made an assumption of my skin colour and then said your friend was entitled to a different view purely down to his skin colour *which is also racism*

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Not in my book it isn't!

racism

noun
1.
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
"theories of racism"


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 6, 2014)

I can see that the Fochabers WRI may now have problems with Aladin as there Christmas Show


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## freddielong (Mar 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Mods

Can I have this post suggesting racist behaviour removed please

Thank you
		
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I in no way think or meant to imply that you were or are in anyway racist I was showing how easy it is to take offence


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## louise_a (Mar 6, 2014)

I always find it very interesting reading people views on topics like this. Whilst not comparing it to the things that black people have suffered in the past. I do belong to a minority that is still abused in public or worse, many of us have been assaulted, driven to suicide and even murdered. Also we get joked about and ridiculed a lot, personally the jokes don't bother me but I know a lot of people who get offended at the least perceived slight.

The point I am making is that people should consider the possibility of someone taking offence when dealing  with sensitive subjects and if there is doubt the don't. Some might not take offence but there are others who may.


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## Midnight (Mar 6, 2014)

In my opinion everyone is different, some take offence some people don't. Do I think PC has gone mad , yes I do.
Do I think this is offensive ? Not in the slightest, however some of my friends do.

I would have to agree with the last point that Louise made. It does not matter if you are not offended, you have to keep in mind that  a third party might be .


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## CMAC (Mar 7, 2014)

Midnight said:



			In my opinion everyone is different, some take offence some people don't. Do I think PC has gone mad , yes I do.
Do I think this is offensive ? Not in the slightest, however some of my friends do.

I would have to agree with the last point that Louise made.* It does not matter if you are not offended, you have to keep in mind that  a third party might be *.
		
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with that philosophy you'll do nothing


Common sense decency, respect and empathy should govern peoples thoughts as they step up to the line


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## User20205 (Mar 7, 2014)

Can't really believe this is still burning. I've had a few beers and am posting in a fish type style.

The only people really qualified to comment on minority offence are FD, midnight and Louise, learn from them. Everything else is nonsense and supposition !! I'm not qualified to comment on blacking up, or any other subjective area, I just know I would never knowingly offend, if I did, would apologise, and never hope to hide my embarrassment by some middle aged bluster &  self justification !!


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## Hobbit (Mar 7, 2014)

Personally, I see someone imitating Whoopi Goldberg. The "blacking up" didn't even register with me till someone highlighted it. I tend not to see the colour of a person, only the person and the personality.

Having lived abroad I've had my fair share of physical and verbal abuse, including being knifed. My sister, adopted, is Asian, and I had my fair share of playground fights in the distant past. 

My own take on an abuser is they are just sad, ignorant people - I no longer take offence, I just feel sorry for them.

Positive discrimination; Whilst I can see the need for it to physically break down barriers I abhor the thought of someone getting something because of colour, and not their ability. I also understand the negative effect this may have, and the resentment this can cause. Does it help cure a problem, or does it perpetuate rascism? I'm not smart enough to answer that one.

As for the cardigan wearing, wooly headed, left wing liberal thinking yoghurt knitters who feel we should all wear sack cloth and ashes whilst taking Political Correctness to the nth degree... you might be right but


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## SocketRocket (Mar 7, 2014)

therod said:



			Can't really believe this is still burning. I've had a few beers and am posting in a fish type style.

The only people really qualified to comment on minority offence are FD, midnight and Louise, learn from them. Everything else is nonsense and supposition !! I'm not qualified to comment on blacking up, or any other subjective area, I just know I would never knowingly offend, if I did, would apologise, and never hope to hide my embarrassment *by some middle aged bluster* &  self justification !!

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Thats a bit ageist !    And!!  As being in a minority group of white, middle aged, heterosexual, conservative taxpayers I would also like the right to be offended by something.


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 7, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Thats a bit ageist !    And!!  As being in a minority group of white, middle aged, heterosexual, conservative taxpayers I would also like the right to be offended by *Everything*.
		
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Fixed that for ya


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## SocketRocket (Mar 7, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Fixed that for ya 

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Thats more like it!   Thanks Phil :thup:


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## User20205 (Mar 7, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Thats a bit ageist !    And!!  As being in a minority group of white, middle aged, heterosexual, conservative taxpayers I would also like the right to be offended by something.
		
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I too am in your specific group, brother. Shall we start a pressure group??


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 7, 2014)

therod said:



			I too am in your specific group, brother. Shall we start a pressure group??

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It might have to be a Blood Pressure group


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## Hobbit (Mar 7, 2014)

therod said:



			I too am in your specific group, brother. Shall we start a pressure group??

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Oh that's nice!! Now you're forming up into gangs and excluding others


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## SocketRocket (Mar 7, 2014)

Hobbit said:



			Oh that's nice!! Now you're forming up into gangs and excluding others 

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I had a PM from a bloke who was thinking of forming a Vegetarian Biker against Fox Hunting group if your interested


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