# Premier League 2019-2020 we’re off



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2019)

New Prem Fixtures

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48620218

Liverpool v Norwich starts the season off on a Friday night

West Ham v Man City

Bournemouth v Sheff Utd

Burnley v Soton

Palace v Everton

Leicester v Wolves

Watford v Brighton

Spurs v Villa

Newcastle v Arsenal

Man Utd v Chelsea ðŸ˜€


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 13, 2019)

Mods Ban Him!!!!


----------



## Captainron (Jun 13, 2019)

Frank Lampards first game in charge is against Man U. What a script. You couldn't make it up....


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 13, 2019)

Bold move from LP .

Happy with Everton's first 4, Palace and Villa away, Watford & Wolves at home. That gives us a chance to settle in and get some early points.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 13, 2019)

Disgraceful. You're not Fish!

Everton have a lovely run before Christmas. Cheers PL.


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 13, 2019)

Liverpool have a tough new year period and a tough run in. Itâ€™s a conspiracy!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 13, 2019)

Good to see United and Chelsea going head to head straight away to make a start on sorting the Europa league placings


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 13, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Disgraceful. You're not Fish!

Everton have a lovely run before Christmas. Cheers PL.
		
Click to expand...

He wants to be him.


----------



## Wolf (Jun 13, 2019)

Newcastle away opening fixture I'll take that. 

Soon get into the meat of it with Spurs and Liverpool in games 3 & 4, Christmas/New year looks to have some potential banana skins and a tight last 4 games of the season.. We definitely need to sure up that defence now


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 13, 2019)

December is going to be chaos with 6 PL games, potential league cup game and Qatar for a week for the Club World Club trophy.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 13, 2019)

Cant wait for the absolute fume when Unbearables FC top the PL and have an extra 2 days rest before the Super Cup with Chelsea ðŸ˜


----------



## PieMan (Jun 13, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Cant wait for the absolute fume when Unbearables FC top the PL and have an extra 2 days rest before the Super Cup with Chelsea ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

It's a disgrace that Unbearables FC have an extra 2 days rest than Chelsea before the Uefa Super Cup match!! ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 13, 2019)

PieMan said:



			It's a disgrace that Unbearables FC have an extra 2 days rest than Chelsea before the Uefa Super Cup match!! ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Too early yer ginger lovin weirdo, we're not top yet ðŸ˜


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2019)

Couple of big things for next season 

VAR - is it going to ruin the sport 

And the new handball rules - are we going to see more and more penalties next season and is it a good rule change


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 13, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1139085300825776129
Everton the only team with 4 reds in a row, and we've got it twice. It's a conspiracy I tells ya.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 13, 2019)

We've got City away 2nd game, Arsenal away 4th game. We also play Liverpool & Man Utd away before Christmas. I suppose it's better to play the big sides at home in the second half of the season though.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 13, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Couple of big things for next season

VAR - is it going to ruin the sport

And the new handball rules - are we going to see more and more penalties next season and is it a good rule change
		
Click to expand...

VAR won't ruin football but I feel it will be awful this season with teething problems as it gets over-used, and over relied upon. 

As for handballs, every defender is going to be prancing around the box with their hands behind their back because anything else will be a pen.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 13, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			VAR won't ruin football but I feel it will be awful this season with teething problems as it gets over-used, and over relied upon.

*As for handballs, every defender is going to be prancing around the box with their hands behind their back because anything else will be a pen*.
		
Click to expand...

This is the result of all the cry arsing and over analysing of incidents in the media and ex pro footballers suddenly becoming experts in arms being in unnatural positions. Reap what you sow.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 13, 2019)

Dan2501 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1139085300825776129
Everton the only team with 4 reds in a row, and we've got it twice. It's a conspiracy I tells ya.
		
Click to expand...

That chart doesnâ€™t look too bad for us, shame football isnâ€™t played on chartsðŸ˜‰


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 13, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			This is the result of all the cry arsing and over analysing of incidents in the media and ex pro footballers suddenly becoming experts in arms being in unnatural positions. Reap what you sow.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, I find it ironic that all the talk of unnatural positions will lead to defenders pinning their arms behind their back - as unnatural as it gets.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 13, 2019)

VAR needs to be given a fair go by fans, media and officials alike but MUST NOT be used as a get out clause by the referee and used too much early on. It will find a balance. As for handball, if this silhouette rule is coming in then defenders will no longer lunge to block in case their arms move out in the process. I can see a lot of penalties being awarded early on, but again I think players will adapt and officials will apply some modicum of common sense


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 13, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Couple of big things for next season

VAR - is it going to ruin the sport

And the new handball rules - are we going to see more and more penalties next season and is it a good rule change
		
Click to expand...

No, as long as the officials don't take an age looking from 15 different angles. If it is not obvious then let it ride. Keep it snappy and it will improve the game. In addition, there was a game at the end of the season in England, can't remember what it is was, where the ref handled it brilliantly. He spoke to the players, joked with them, told them to stop shouting at him over decisions and let the VAR people do their job. By the end the players were calmer, decisions were made correctly, the game moved on. The announcing of VAR decisions on screens at the game will also help. They need to keep fans informed and the previous quiet was a problem.

Handball, I think it is an improvement over the current ruling. I don't envisage more penalties, just more clarity about the decisions.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 13, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, I find it ironic that all the talk of unnatural positions will lead to defenders pinning their arms behind their back - as unnatural as it gets.
		
Click to expand...

Even more ironic that these players â€œwho have played the gameâ€ are being lauded by some of the media  to be fast tracked into refereeing.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 13, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			VAR needs to be given a fair go by fans, media and officials alike but MUST NOT be used as a get out clause by the referee and used too much early on. It will find a balance. As for handball, if this silhouette rule is coming in then defenders will no longer lunge to block in case their arms move out in the process. I can see a lot of penalties being awarded early on, but again I think players will adapt and officials will apply some modicum of common sense
		
Click to expand...

VAR in theory,clear and obvious decisions, should work but  itâ€™s too complicated from the outset. Take Lingards goal the other night, heâ€™s offside by a couple of mmâ€™s and look how long it took. Is this really what VAR should be used for? Is that really enough to gain an advantage?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 13, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No, as long as the officials don't take an age looking from 15 different angles. If it is not obvious then let it ride. Keep it snappy and it will improve the game. In addition, there was a game at the end of the season in England, can't remember what it is was, where the ref handled it brilliantly. He spoke to the players, joked with them, told them to stop shouting at him over decisions and let the VAR people do their job. By the end the players were calmer, decisions were made correctly, the game moved on. The announcing of VAR decisions on screens at the game will also help. They need to keep fans informed and the previous quiet was a problem.

Handball, I think it is an improvement over the current ruling. I don't envisage more penalties, just more clarity about the decisions.
		
Click to expand...

Some instances are so tight you canâ€™t make the correct decision in 10 seconds. Iâ€™m certain thereâ€™ll be a lot more pens given this season.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 13, 2019)

One thing VAR needs to do is make it obvious to the viewer what's going on. It's one thing they do great in Cricket. You hear the 3rd Umpire talking over the footage, you see what they're looking at and so even though the game itself has stopped it doesn't feel like it because you're involved in the process. So far from what I've seen from VAR we either don't have a clue what's going on, or we see 1 rubbish replay, or we watch a referee stood in front of a screen, it's awful. Needs to be presented better to those in the stadium and on TV.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 13, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			VAR in theory,clear and obvious decisions, should work but  itâ€™s too complicated from the outset. Take Lingards goal the other night, heâ€™s offside by a couple of mmâ€™s and look how long it took. Is this really what VAR should be used for? Is that really enough to gain an advantage?
		
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I mean about it being over-used. They have so far forgotten the 'clear and obvious error' part of their own definition on when it's used. If someone's a clear foot offside and it's been missed, then it should be overruled, if there's a centremetre in it then that's level in my book. If the naked eye would call it level then it should be left alone. 

In conjunction with the ridiculous handball laws though it will be painful. The problem is handballs always look far worse in slow motion because it makes it look like they had to time to get out of the way when they didn't in real time.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 13, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Some instances are so tight you canâ€™t make the correct decision in 10 seconds. Iâ€™m certain thereâ€™ll be a lot more pens given this season.
		
Click to expand...

10 secs is too short a time but I would say that if you can't figure it out after 45 secs max, that figure could be shortened further, then the original decision stands.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2019)

The times I have seen VAR used in the UK itâ€™s been horrific , takes far too long and itâ€™s just hasnâ€™t worked

Seen it used outside the UK and most times itâ€™s done quickly - the CL final for the penalty seem to do finished in well under a minute

It for me only should be used for goals scored , penalty shouts and red cards and needs to be clear and obvious

If they are taking 4 mins and need to zoom in 400% then thats not clear and obvious 

But i can see it being a nightmare for fans especially in the ground


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 13, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			10 secs is too short a time but I would say that if you can't figure it out after 45 secs max, that figure could be shortened further, then the original decision stands.
		
Click to expand...

45secs is way too long, that'll kill the fluidity of football.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 13, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			45secs is way too long, that'll kill the fluidity of football.
		
Click to expand...

But with the niggly fouls and the time taken for free kicks corners and throw ins these days is there really a flow to the game anyway. 

I do like the idea of the referee/4th official being able to give the crowd and TV audience some idea of what is going on but can't see it ever happening. It happens in rugby union as well but I think football seems overly precious about their officials ever talking about or showing how they came to a decision


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 13, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			45secs is way too long, that'll kill the fluidity of football.
		
Click to expand...

And some nob writhing about on the floor faking injury for 5 minutes, then rises like Lazarus to continue playing isn't killing the fluidity of the game as well ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 13, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But with the niggly fouls and the time taken for free kicks corners and throw ins these days is there really a flow to the game anyway.

I do like the idea of the referee/4th official being able to give the crowd and TV audience some idea of what is going on but can't see it ever happening. It happens in rugby union as well but I think football seems overly precious about their officials ever talking about or showing how they came to a decision
		
Click to expand...

Disagree Homer. Even with the stoppages, thereâ€™s still end to end football.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 13, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			And some nob writhing about on the floor faking injury for 5 minutes, then rises like Lazarus to continue playing isn't killing the fluidity of the game as well ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Hazard has gone to Madrid now, problem solved.ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 13, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Hazard has gone to Madrid now, problem solved.ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

We still have Salah and Mane though.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 13, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			45secs is way too long, that'll kill the fluidity of football.
		
Click to expand...

That is why I said it could be shortened further. Don't forget the start of the process is happening in a building miles from the ground. Whilst the players are surrounding the ref, player getting treatment etc the VAR people are already looking at the incident. Equally, the incident may be being looked at whilst the game is going on. It is a work in progress but it can get better. 

I heard a bloke from RL talking and he said the key was to give tight terms of reference for what could go to VAR and then how they operated. Keep it narrow and it will be slicker.


----------



## Fade and Die (Jun 13, 2019)

City at home first game of the season! Best time to play them, they might not be on top form but if they are then its not to damaging to get pumped on the opening day. 

Re VAR, i've always said it will suck the joy out of watching it live and i stick by that, but what they should do is only watch replays in real time, whenever anything is slowed down it always looks much worse than it really was. Handball and fouls always look worse in slow-mo.


----------



## Fish (Jun 13, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Cant wait for the absolute fume when Unbearables FC top the PL and have an extra 2 days rest before the Super Cup with Chelsea ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Already I'm seeing posts elsewhere about Liverpool playing Friday and Chelsea Sunday, prior to the Super Cup.
For crying out loud. Who cares?

Its a glorified friendly.
If we weren't in it, Chelsea would probably line up another friendly to make some Â£Â£Â£.

And at the end of the day, one game will have been played, itâ€™s not as if they've played 20 games before it. 

They're athletes, prime physical condition springs to mind and on over Â£100k a week, ffs ðŸ˜¡


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 13, 2019)

Fish said:



			Already I'm seeing posts elsewhere about Liverpool playing Friday and Chelsea Sunday, prior to the Super Cup.
For crying out loud. Who cares?

Its a glorified friendly.
If we weren't in it, Chelsea would probably line up another friendly to make some Â£Â£Â£.

And at the end of the day, one game will have been played, itâ€™s not as if they've played 20 games before it.

They're athletes, prime physical condition springs to mind and on over Â£100k a week, ffs ðŸ˜¡
		
Click to expand...

No doubt they already have a date for the parade. Hopefully the bus will be taxed this time ðŸ˜


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 13, 2019)

Fish said:



			Already I'm seeing posts elsewhere about Liverpool playing Friday and Chelsea Sunday, prior to the Super Cup.
*For crying out loud. Who cares*?

*Its a glorified friendly.*
If we weren't in it, Chelsea would probably line up another friendly to make some Â£Â£Â£.

And at the end of the day, one game will have been played, itâ€™s not as if they've played 20 games before it.

They're athletes, prime physical condition springs to mind and on over Â£100k a week, ffs ðŸ˜¡
		
Click to expand...

Put yer rod away, no Chelsea v Liverpool game is a friendly.

I doubt they would have friendlies after the season had started.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 13, 2019)

According to Sky Italy Chelsea have agreed a deal with Juventus for Sarri. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1139283656688713731


----------



## louise_a (Jun 14, 2019)

once again not Premier League, but today Blackpool were finally rid of the Oystons, the club has been sold to Simon Sadler a Blackpool born Hong Kong based financier for around Â£10million, time will tell  if there will be meaningful investment from him but a great day for the long suffering fans.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 14, 2019)

louise_a said:



			once again not Premier League, but today Blackpool were finally rid of the Oystons, the club has been sold to Simon Sadler a Blackpool born Hong Kong based financier for around Â£10million, time will tell  if there will be meaningful investment from him but a great day for the long suffering fans.
		
Click to expand...

Anything that means the Oystons are gone lock stock and barrel has to be a positive thing. I assume they have zero involvement any more and can't infect the club with their poison another day longer. If the new owner is a Blackpool lad you'd hope he's got the club in his heart and its whether the cash becomes available to spend on new players thats the issue but I'd love to see them on the up again


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 14, 2019)

So Sarri is off to Juve, and Chavski bringing in Fat Frank by all accounts. That's hilarious. Be careful what you wish for eh? I can see this being a disaster season for them. How's Lamps going to loan in half the Chelsea youth team like last season if he's already at Chelsea??


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 14, 2019)

Not a chelsea fan obviously. But a fan of giving English managers a crack at a top six job. Think Franks status at Chelsea is already assured. Plus am sure he can bring a winning City mentality to Chelsea. ðŸ˜ðŸ˜‰ what with him being an ex City player.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 14, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Not a chelsea fan obviously. *But a fan of giving English managers a crack at a top six job.* Think Franks status at Chelsea is already assured. Plus am sure he can bring a winning City mentality to Chelsea. ðŸ˜ðŸ˜‰ what with him being an ex City player.
		
Click to expand...

Even if they're woefully underqualified?? I think it's a bit of a joke how ex-players of note just walk into top jobs.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 14, 2019)

City have signed Daniel Ogwuru from Bolton for approximately Â£100,000.

The 14-year-old striker was available for free due to Bolton's financial troubles but the PL champions have paid an initial fee and even included bonuses.


----------



## Jensen (Jun 14, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			So Sarri is off to Juve, and Chavski bringing in Fat Frank by all accounts. That's hilarious. Be careful what you wish for eh? I can see this being a disaster season for them. How's Lamps going to loan in half the Chelsea youth team like last season if he's already at Chelsea??
		
Click to expand...

Let's hope so...ðŸ˜„ðŸ˜œ


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 14, 2019)

West Ham with our 3rd signing of the summer

So far 2 back up keepers (Adrian released, apparently these two keepers combined wages are cheaper than Adrianâ€™s who wasnâ€™t happy at being second choice)

And today 24 million on Pablo Fornals who is apparently an exciting young player from Spain 

23 years old. Honestly never heard of him but already 150 league appearances 

Nice to see us after young players


----------



## Jensen (Jun 14, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Even if they're woefully underqualified?? I think it's a bit of a joke how ex-players of note just walk into top jobs.
		
Click to expand...

Great players don't make good managers. Just look at Shearer when he was temporary manager at Newcastle


----------



## fundy (Jun 14, 2019)

louise_a said:



			once again not Premier League, but today Blackpool were finally rid of the Oystons, the club has been sold to Simon Sadler a Blackpool born Hong Kong based financier for around Â£10million, time will tell  if there will be meaningful investment from him but a great day for the long suffering fans.
		
Click to expand...

Dont think theres a proper football fan out there who doesnt wish you well after all the clubs been through! Hopefully its a new dawn.....


----------



## fundy (Jun 14, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			City have signed Daniel Ogwuru from Bolton for approximately Â£100,000.

The 14-year-old striker was available for free due to Bolton's financial troubles but the PL champions have paid an initial fee and even included bonuses.
		
Click to expand...

How much was he worth without their troubles?

Hey ho, City kindly donated their tea and coffee budget for the week anyway


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 14, 2019)

fundy said:



			How much was he worth without their troubles?

Hey ho, City kindly donated their tea and coffee budget for the week anyway 

Click to expand...

Read it on one of the city fan FB pages, that City paid 100K when they didn't have to. Wonder if anyone else was sniffing around. Like most 14 yr olds, never heard of him.


----------



## Slime (Jun 14, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Great players don't make good managers. Just look at Shearer when he was temporary manager at Newcastle
		
Click to expand...

I'll see your Alan Shearer and raise you Gary Neville at Valencia!


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 14, 2019)

https://talksport.com/football/558295/liverpool-fan-premier-league-rigged-manchester-city/

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

ðŸŽ»ðŸŽ»ðŸŽ»ðŸŽ»ðŸŽ»


----------



## Slime (Jun 14, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



https://talksport.com/football/558295/liverpool-fan-premier-league-rigged-manchester-city/

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

ðŸŽ»ðŸŽ»ðŸŽ»ðŸŽ»ðŸŽ»
		
Click to expand...

Comedy gold, thanks for posting ................................. it's right cheered me up.


----------



## anotherdouble (Jun 15, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			So Sarri is off to Juve, and Chavski bringing in Fat Frank by all accounts. That's hilarious. Be careful what you wish for eh? I can see this being a disaster season for them. How's Lamps going to loan in half the Chelsea youth team like last season if he's already at Chelsea??
		
Click to expand...

Thank you for your input Mr Cole


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 15, 2019)

anotherdouble said:



			Thank you for your input Mr Cole
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 15, 2019)

Slime said:



			I'll see your Alan Shearer and raise you Gary Neville at Valencia!
		
Click to expand...

No similarities there Slime, Neville wasnt a great player ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Jensen (Jun 15, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



https://talksport.com/football/558295/liverpool-fan-premier-league-rigged-manchester-city/

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

ðŸŽ»ðŸŽ»ðŸŽ»ðŸŽ»ðŸŽ»
		
Click to expand...


Yet another Liverpool fan who needs to put the chips in his mouth instead of wearing them on his shoulder


----------



## adam6177 (Jun 15, 2019)

I've never quite understood the fuss around the fixture order.... You play everyone twice, home and away. It never changes.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 15, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			I've never quite understood the fuss around the fixture order.... You play everyone twice, home and away. It never changes.
		
Click to expand...

It can have a massive impact if a team is front loaded with tough matches. Let's say Brighton play City, Liverpool Chelsea, Spurs, Utd first 5 games. They lose all 5, get thumped in a couple. They then play Villa, Norwich, Southampton next but confidence is so shot that they don't get points there either. The manager gets the sack, season is written off after only a quarter of the games.

Equally if a team has a soft start, the strikers score goals, defenders get comfortable, then by the time they face the big boys they are full of confidence and more likely to take points off them.

I suppose I am saying it matters more for teams in the area of 7th and below.

I know I've painted an extreme scenario but it happened negatively for Koeman at Everton and also West Ham a season or two ago.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 15, 2019)

I had a quick look at City's fixtures when they first came out. I think over Nov and Dec, in five games, four are against Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal. It is what it is. I was reading something on Manchester evening news re the fixtures and Champs league games and how Liverpool have an advantage over City. In a sense that they have more home fixtures after or before the group games. It's all hypothetical. Liverpool could be at home on Saturday but be at Ukraine four days earlier. Trouble is its a quiet part of the season and people are looking for non stories.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 15, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			I had a quick look at City's fixtures when they first came out. I think over Nov and Dec, in five games, four are against Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal. It is what it is. I was reading something on Manchester evening news re the fixtures and Champs league games and how Liverpool have an advantage over City. In a sense that they have more home fixtures after or before the group games. It's all hypothetical. Liverpool could be at home on Saturday but be at Ukraine four days earlier. Trouble is its a quiet part of the season and people are looking for non stories.
		
Click to expand...

Seemed like City weâ€™re playing games after liverpool had played at the end of last season
Which put more pressure on City imo.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 16, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			I've never quite understood the fuss around the fixture order.... You play everyone twice, home and away. It never changes.
		
Click to expand...

Boooooooooo......You've obviously not gone through each game and awarded points for WLD have yerðŸ˜‰ 

I've got The European Cup winning  Unbearables FC winning the league, going unbeaten with 108pts GD +79 by 14 pts ðŸ˜ðŸ˜


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 16, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Boooooooooo......You've obviously not gone through each game and awarded points for WLD have yerðŸ˜‰

I've got The European Cup winning  Unbearables FC winning the league, going unbeaten with 108pts GD +79 by 14 pts in front of Utd ðŸ˜ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Sorted Stu ðŸ˜ðŸ‘


----------



## fundy (Jun 16, 2019)

am i the only person who hasnt bothered looking at the fixtures? dont get the point lol, we play everyone twice at some point (obviously different if youre planning away days  )


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 16, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			I had a quick look at City's fixtures when they first came out. I think over Nov and Dec, in five games, four are against Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal. It is what it is. I was reading something on Manchester evening news re the fixtures and Champs league games and how Liverpool have an advantage over City. In a sense that they have more home fixtures after or before the group games. It's all hypothetical. Liverpool could be at home on Saturday but be at Ukraine four days earlier. Trouble is its a quiet part of the season and people are looking for non stories.
		
Click to expand...

City have a massive advantage over the rest of the league by ignoring FFP.

Playing at home after CL games is a bonus, but its down to luck of the draw. I know Jose was moaning last season about the same thing. We've been on the opposite end of that under Rafa when we played away in moscow iirc on the  wednesday, not returned back til 6 am thursday morning then played Portsmouth away saturday 12 oclock kick off.

We were told to shut up and stop whinging


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 16, 2019)

fundy said:



			am i the only person who hasnt bothered looking at the fixtures? dont get the point lol, we play everyone twice at some point (obviously different if youre planning away days  )
		
Click to expand...

This is what happens when your club goes through that barren spell and become also rans ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ 

As European Champions its different, we're lining up a trip to Istanbul for yhe super cup and  possible winter trip to Qatar with my lad and mates ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 16, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Sorted Stu ðŸ˜ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Dont be lowering the tone and bring that lot into the conversation.....


----------



## fundy (Jun 16, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			This is what happens when your club goes through that barren spell and become also rans ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ 

As European Champions its different, we're lining up a trip to Istanbul for yhe super cup and  possible winter trip to Qatar with my lad and mates ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

just reverting to the mean haha, im just glad I was about for the spell where we massively overperformed 

enjoy your trips, dont miss the home games at all but do miss the odd away trip or two


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 16, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			City have a massive advantage over the rest of the league by *ignoring FFP. * 

Playing at home after CL games is a bonus, but its down to luck of the draw. I know Jose was moaning last season about the same thing. We've been on the opposite end of that under Rafa when we played away in moscow iirc on the  wednesday, not returned back til 6 am thursday morning then played Portsmouth away saturday 12 oclock kick off.

We were told to shut up and stop whinging
		
Click to expand...

allegadly ðŸ˜. Read a lovely piece on the BBC site where Real are spending a few euros buying the next galacticos, however the president of the Spanish FA has gone quiet having spent the last few months slagging off the prem league and PSG for spending vast amounts of brass.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 16, 2019)

fundy said:



			just reverting to the mean haha, im just glad I was about for the spell where we massively overperformed 

enjoy your trips, dont miss the home games at all but do miss the odd away trip or two
		
Click to expand...

Haha, those 6 months of hell under Hodgson has made me a stronger person and apppreciate the great times we've had.

It makes it even better having my lad with me, he loves it.


----------



## fundy (Jun 16, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha, those 6 months of hell under Hodgson has made me a stronger person and apppreciate the great times we've had.

It makes it even better having my lad with me, he loves it.
		
Click to expand...


Wish the Graham era had only been 6 mths haha. Did make me appreciate how fortunate we were with Wengers early years though! Not sure the future bodes too well though, owners wallet firmly shut and the games moved past where you can be fully self sufficient and compete at the top table, especially when most of your asset value got destroyed a couple of years ago

Enjoy, expect going with the lad makes it all the better


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 16, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			allegadly ðŸ˜. Read a lovely piece on the BBC site where Real are spending a few euros buying the next galacticos, however the president of the Spanish FA has gone quiet having spent the last few months slagging off the prem league and PSG for spending vast amounts of brass.
		
Click to expand...

He's probably got that "if you cant beat them, join them mentality" ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Fish (Jun 16, 2019)

fundy said:



			am i the only person who hasnt bothered looking at the fixtures? dont get the point lol, we play everyone twice at some point (obviously different if youre planning away days  )
		
Click to expand...

I look purely because my birthday falls in the opening week and with it being a special one this year, I needed to know when we were at home or away for the first weekend. 

So Iâ€™m now having my birthday bash at Chelsea at home to Leicester, which is the same day Rick passed, then a local bash here in Cov the weekend after.


----------



## fundy (Jun 16, 2019)

Fish said:



			I look purely because my birthday falls in the opening week and with it being a special one this year, I needed to know when we were at home or away for the first weekend. 

So Iâ€™m now having my birthday bash at Chelsea at home to Leicester, which is the same day Rick passed, then a local bash here in Cov the weekend after.
		
Click to expand...

In case I miss it at the time, happy 70th mate


----------



## Fish (Jun 16, 2019)

fundy said:



			In case I miss it at the time, happy 70th mate 

Click to expand...


----------



## fundy (Jun 16, 2019)

hahahaha


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 16, 2019)

fundy said:



			Wish the Graham era had only been 6 mths haha. Did make me appreciate how fortunate we were with Wengers early years though! Not sure the future bodes too well though, owners wallet firmly shut and the games moved past where you can be fully self sufficient and compete at the top table, especially when most of your asset value got destroyed a couple of years ago

Enjoy, expect going with the lad makes it all the better
		
Click to expand...

Been there, seen it, done it.  Loads of infighting, arguing, demonstrations against hicks and gillette, being told to shut up and support the team, we cant do nothing, they wont listen you/us etc etc. Those were dark days fearing we'd lose OUR club to a pair of  greedy, lying charlatans.

I didnt realise or understand when my auld fella used to say he enjoyed going the game more with me and my brother, these last 4yrs with my lad have been brilliant, even losing finals, it hurts and hurts bad but when you win it blows all that hurt away and brings so much joy.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 16, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			allegadly ðŸ˜. Read a lovely piece on the BBC site where Real are spending a few euros buying the next galacticos, however the president of the Spanish FA has gone quiet having spent the last few months slagging off the prem league and PSG for spending vast amounts of brass.
		
Click to expand...

Real Madrid spending over the last couple of years has left them lots of space to manage a big summer of transfer fees - add on all the commercial deals they have and income from other areas. Lots of â€œreportsâ€ suggesting they need to sell lots to meet FFP but when looking at the numbers over the years itâ€™s not as drastic as being made out. They will still sell well over Â£250 mil worth of players anyway to help balance books even more.


----------



## Fish (Jun 16, 2019)

Heâ€™s gone ðŸ˜‰


----------



## fundy (Jun 16, 2019)

I see weve let Ospina go for 4m euros, no doubt to be replaced by an untried kid for 10m lol. seems pretty cheap for an international keeper in this day and age


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 16, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1140270835158134784
No wonder Pogba wants out.


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 16, 2019)

Dan2501 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1140270835158134784
No wonder Pogba wants out.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, Pogba wants to leave because Lingard and Rashford post stupid stuff on social media.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 16, 2019)

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/worst-players-premier-league-history?page=0,4

442 post their worst 50 players ever in the Prem - there is prob a few missing , canâ€™t believe Koldrup is not in the list 

Any others ?


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 16, 2019)

Was definitely a serious post....

Sarri going is not good for Chelsea. Best player gone, excellent coach gone, can't buy anyone, going to be a rough season for whoever takes over.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 16, 2019)

Fish said:



			Heâ€™s gone ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

And who comes in now - could be a very serious case of cutting of your nose. Sarri must be chuffed though - good season , wins his first trophy , gains a lot of respect ( not from some areas of Chelsea fans ) , leaves with his head held high and gets a step up in job. I hope they give it to Lampard - fast forward 12 months and will be interesting to see how the fan base are treating him if they arenâ€™t winning the league or CL which seems to be the minimum standard


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 16, 2019)

Dan2501 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1140270835158134784
No wonder Pogba wants out.
		
Click to expand...

Football really as gone ðŸ˜©

Both are over rated attention seeking tools. 

Oh & Pogba is easily as bad with his stupid haircuts.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 16, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Was definitely a serious post....

Sarri going is not good for Chelsea. Best player gone, excellent coach gone, can't buy anyone, going to be a rough season for whoever takes over.
		
Click to expand...

What i find mad is he's not good enough for Chelsea but good enough for Juventus and parts of the media  are saying chelsea need a younger manager to play younger players.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 16, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And who comes in now - could be a very serious case of cutting of your nose. Sarri must be chuffed though - good season , wins his first trophy , gains a lot of respect ( not from some areas of Chelsea fans ) , leaves with his head held high and gets a step up in job. I hope they give it to Lampard - fast forward 12 months and will be interesting to see how the fan base are treating him if they arenâ€™t winning the league or CL which seems to be the minimum standard
		
Click to expand...

Fish will you please give this man the bite & attention that heâ€™s oh so desperate for from you ðŸ˜³ðŸ™ˆ


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 16, 2019)

Dan2501 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1140270835158134784
No wonder Pogba wants out.
		
Click to expand...

Before this season Rashford had the world at his feet - everyone was expecting a stellar 12 months from him being the player to spearhead Man Utd to challenge City. 

The reality couldnâ€™t have been any different and his career seems to have taken a big step backwards and being around people like Lingard ( who is more interested in the â€œfameâ€ ) is not going to help him. He needs a big season coming up to get his career back on track - would a move away help


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 16, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Before this season Rashford had the world at his feet - everyone was expecting a stellar 12 months from him being the player to spearhead Man Utd to challenge City.

*The reality couldnâ€™t have been any different and his career seems to have taken a big step backwards and being around people like Lingard ( who is more interested in the â€œfameâ€ ) is not going to help him. He needs a big season coming up to get his career back on track - would a move away help*

Click to expand...

i dont agree  with this. i thought most players struggled last season  and that was mainly down to Jose doing what he does best.

His attitude seems to be good and i dont think you can question his effort, from what i've seen i dont think he has enough to be main centre forward right now.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 16, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			i dont agree  with this. i thought most players struggled last season  and that was mainly down to Jose doing what he does best.

His attitude seems to be good and i dont think you can question his effort, from what i've seen i dont think he has enough to be main centre forward right now.
		
Click to expand...

I also think it was rubbish and looking for a reaction. I thought his last performance in an England short was strong enough but I think he's still learning to play at the very highest level. There is more to come and whether that is at United or not remains to be seen but I don't see him being turned by Pogba, Lingard et al. I think United are clearly laying down a marker with some of their purchases of younger players and it may be that if OGS wants to go down the "kids" route the likes of Pogba etc could find themselves on the way out anyway

As for Sarri going, even with a transfer embargo, I can see this being a real opportunity for a manager to come in and really make a reputation for themselves. No-one will be expecting much so there is not as much pressure as perhaps there would normally be but if they can also find a way to utilise the loan players and those that have only been squad players they could also surprise a few peoplein the PL although I think they'll struggle in Europe


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 16, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			i dont agree  with this. i thought most players struggled last season  and that was mainly down to Jose doing what he does best.

His attitude seems to be good and i dont think you can question his effort, from what i've seen i dont think he has enough to be main centre forward right now.
		
Click to expand...

So did he have a good season ? I know Maureen has to shoulder a lot of them blame but just after the World Cup he had the world at his feet , he looked ready to take the next step to be a consistent top striker in the Prem - but it didnâ€™t happen and 12 months later in the last England game he looked a shadow of himself from last summer. Since he burst onto the scene people are just waiting for him to really become the main guy - become someone who canâ€™t be dropped etc

He has stalled - he needs to start to step now and start to fulfill the clear potential he has.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 16, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



*I also think it was rubbish and looking for a reaction*. I thought his last performance in an England short was strong enough but I think he's still learning to play at the very highest level. There is more to come and whether that is at United or not remains to be seen but I don't see him being turned by Pogba, Lingard et al. I think United are clearly laying down a marker with some of their purchases of younger players and it may be that if OGS wants to go down the "kids" route the likes of Pogba etc could find themselves on the way out anyway

As for Sarri going, even with a transfer embargo, I can see this being a real opportunity for a manager to come in and really make a reputation for themselves. No-one will be expecting much so there is not as much pressure as perhaps there would normally be but if they can also find a way to utilise the loan players and those that have only been squad players they could also surprise a few peoplein the PL although I think they'll struggle in Europe
		
Click to expand...

Again, i disagree but it's his opinion. 

After a long hard season, i wouldnt be too quick judge his england performances. Its all well and good having young english players  but they've gotta be good enough at PL/CL level.

Anyone who comes in at chelsea will be under immense pressure to Stay top 4 and improve the style of football with very little improvements to the squad. To suggest otherwise is stupid.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 16, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So did he have a good season ?




			By his own standards i'd say no but he wasnt the worst player in the squad
		
Click to expand...

 I know Maureen has to shoulder a lot of them blame but just after the World Cup he had the world at his feet , he looked ready to take the next step to be a consistent top striker in the Prem - but it didnâ€™t happen 




			i think youve answered your own question there
		
Click to expand...

and 12 months later in the last England game he looked a shadow of himself from last summer. Since he burst onto the scene people are just waiting for him to really become the main guy - become someone who canâ€™t be dropped etc

He has stalled - he needs to start to step now and start to fulfill the clear potential he has.
		
Click to expand...

Dont forget, he's still only a young local lad with time on his side. If i followed yernited i'd be more concerned with the Â£90m yard dog striker they've got not pulling his weight, Â£90m world cup winner not pulling his weight, the worlds best keeper losing all confidence and poor performances.

Blaming Rashford for mixing with Lingard and Pogba is petty imo.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 16, 2019)

Rashford stepped up to the plate in Paris with the penalty and to be honest didn't benefit from Jose being in charge. I agree that United as a collective didn't perform last season and there are clearly one or two high profile players that didn't play to their ability but I don't ten goals and 7 assists in 33 appearances is a bad return especially as he wasn't a regular starter

https://www.transfermarkt.com/marcus-rashford/detaillierteleistungsdaten/spieler/258923


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 16, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Don
		
Click to expand...




Stuart_C said:



			Dont forget, he's still only a young local lad with time on his side. If i followed yernited i'd be more concerned with the Â£90m yard dog striker they've got not pulling his weight, Â£90m world cup winner not pulling his weight, the worlds best keeper losing all confidence and poor performances.

Blaming Rashford for mixing with Lingard and Pogba is petty imo.
		
Click to expand...

Let me rephrase it slightly 

Yep the whole squad has had issues all season long and that includes Rashford , Iâ€™m not saying anyone is to â€œblameâ€ and such but I feel even at this early stage in his career he is at his first crossroads. Until this season itâ€™s been nothing but forward momentum and positives - this year itâ€™s a step backwards and now itâ€™s about getting it all back on track. 

Up until now I suspect no one has ever picked up anything about Rashford off the field - quiet on social media and just keeping himself to himself which is the way to be , where as someone like Lingard who is imo a legend in his own lifetime and seems to want to concentrate more on his â€œcelebration dancesâ€ and clothing lines and social media presence ( maybe to mask that he imo is a bang average player ) is someone that Rashford just shouldnâ€™t use as some sort of role model , silly videos like that just add more negativity and for me Rashford would be best to steer clear of it all.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 16, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Let me rephrase it slightly

Yep the whole squad has had issues all season long and that includes Rashford , Iâ€™m not saying anyone is to â€œblameâ€ and such but I feel even at this early stage in his career he is at his first crossroads. *Until this season itâ€™s been nothing but forward momentum and positives - this year itâ€™s a step backwards* and now itâ€™s about getting it all back on track.

Up until now I suspect no one has ever picked up anything about Rashford off the field - quiet on social media and just keeping himself to himself which is the way to be , where as someone like Lingard who is imo a legend in his own lifetime and seems to want to concentrate more on his â€œcelebration dancesâ€ and clothing lines and social media presence ( maybe to mask that he imo is a bang average player ) is someone that Rashford just shouldnâ€™t use as some sort of role model , silly videos like that just add more negativity and for me Rashford would be best to steer clear of it all.
		
Click to expand...

Peaks and troughs Phil, peaks and troughs.

Thats what happens in most sports with performances. Its very rare to see footballers improve year on year on a constant upward trajectory in a stable team enviroment, theres no chance of it happening when there's issues with manager and players in the team. 

Rashford will be ok, he seems to have the right attitude and ability, Lingard will get found out.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 17, 2019)

Saw this and had to admire their neck https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-48649359


----------



## Fish (Jun 17, 2019)

People seem to be writing or making observations that are clearly not factual!  

Sarri wasn't or hasn't been sacked, he hasn't been hounded out either, yes some fans didn't like the football and changes he was attempting to adopt and stick with, even though it clearly at times wasn't working and was soon getting found out by the opposition, but if he felt unwanted and felt the need to leave on those grounds, then he's weak and I wouldn't want him based on that either!

However, he left because he missed being in Italy, couple that with his elderly parents who need more constant care, he wanted to be closer to home, and with sending out those signals, Juve came knocking and have given him the opportunity to leave, so everyone is happy. 

It makes a refreshing change that we are getting money for a manager departing early, but then our turnover of managers works for us..




It's looking far more likely as time goes on that Lampard could be coming, I actually said when he was first mentioned it was too early for him, another year (or 2) would be better, but I've changed that view slightly, mainly because he's served under an array of managers and has seen success under most if not all of them, so his portfolio as far as gleaming all that experience must stand for something, then with a personal touch of his own knowing the club and expectations as much as he does, I think he could be very successful, and his talks with Roman to have an agreement and assurance in regards to being given time (2yrs) to be judged more evenly due to the transfer situations, and with Jody by his side and using the youth and loan players that have been shortlisted to return, I think he will/could hit the ground running!

It's very easy to find fault in any team or club, it's very easy to write doom & gloom opinions based on current situations, which I personally don't think are as bad as some people would hope or like them to be, and I think as soon as those results don't happen in the negative manner they so desire, they'll spin another yarn or drag something else up to appease there obsessions with Chelsea and how we go about our business, which again isn't that bad as the photo above of trophies & titles clearly proves.

We (Sarri) was lucky, finishing where we did was solely down to those around us choking, it wasn't by us playing any better than we had prior, we had 6th (5th at best) written all over us, but thankfully both our neighbors and Utd stuck to their usual trait of imploding, as for the Europa win, yes it's great to win and also qualify for the CL had we finished outside the top 4, but we all know cup runs and wins can be lucky also, it's all on the day, and we had ours, as we will in the future with whoever comes to lead us...

Write us off at your peril


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jun 17, 2019)

I would agree on the view that Lampard would be a natural fit with the transfer ban pending. However, I think Sarri was mortally wounded by Kepa refusing to do as told and leave the pitch. I also think Sarri knew what would be coming at some time soonish anyway, so I don't blame him for returning to Italy, yes the reasons given are valid but I do think a little helpful for all concerned.


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 17, 2019)

Yea, itâ€™s clearly been well managed in an attempt to hide the unhappiness at Stamford Bridge but Sarri was a dead man walking and itâ€™s just convenient that this option allows everyone to save a little bit of face.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 17, 2019)

Fish said:



			People seem to be writing or making observations that are clearly not factual! 

Sarri wasn't or hasn't been sacked, he hasn't been hounded out either, yes some fans didn't like the football and changes he was attempting to adopt and stick with, even though it clearly at times wasn't working and was soon getting found out by the opposition, but if he felt unwanted and felt the need to leave on those grounds, then he's weak and I wouldn't want him based on that either!
		
Click to expand...

You only need to read social media to see the reactions towards him through the year - at the start he was doing well ( fans laud him etc ) , then struggled mid season - fans want him gone , he dwasnt even halfway through his first season and there are calls for him to go ? Then he finishes well - wins a trophy and gets the club into CL when it looked way off at one stage. Even then any credit he is getting is tainted with "others fell over etc etc" -- even saw media posts mocking him because of the delight he showed in winning his first medal in sport. 

Maybe its because the way the club have been since Roman arrived - 13 managers is it ? that allows the attitude of calls for the manager to go within months of him starting out - Scolari , Villas Boas - neither lasted a season.




			However, he left because he missed being in Italy, couple that with his elderly parents who need more constant care, he wanted to be closer to home, and with sending out those signals, Juve came knocking and have given him the opportunity to leave, so everyone is happy.

It makes a refreshing change that we are getting money for a manager departing early, but then our turnover of managers works for us..

View attachment 27581

Click to expand...

Yep Chelsea have won a good number of trophies especially since Roman arrived - is that success because of the revolving door of managers or because of the unlimited funds of the owner being supplied to bring in the players ? The club being ok just to buy when needed and if the player didnt work out just buy again ? Its a working method that not many clubs can follow - only City really




			It's looking far more likely as time goes on that Lampard could be coming, I actually said when he was first mentioned it was too early for him, another year (or 2) would be better, but I've changed that view slightly, mainly because he's served under an array of managers and has seen success under most if not all of them, so his portfolio as far as gleaming all that experience must stand for something, then with a personal touch of his own knowing the club and expectations as much as he does, I think he could be very successful, and his talks with Roman to have an agreement and assurance in regards to being given time (2yrs) to be judged more evenly due to the transfer situations, and with Jody by his side and using the youth and loan players that have been shortlisted to return, I think he will/could hit the ground running!
		
Click to expand...

Lampard took a Derby team who finished 6th the season before to 6th again , was able to bring in lots of loan players but utlimately fell short - its a massive risk to take with a manager who has had one season. There have been many players who have worked under some of the best managers around and they have failed - there are prob more ex star players who have failed than who have succeeded - the last really truley successful one was Kenny in the 80's but then he had people like Bob Paisley still helping etc. 

And then when Lampard does get the job - how are the fans going to react if it doesnt go well early doors ? They reacted when established managers struggled early doors - will Lampard get the same treatment or given some leeway ? Football is fickle and over the last 15 years Chelsea have gained a lot of new fans - a couple of months struggling and it wont take much before the fans turn on Lampard.




			It's very easy to find fault in any team or club, it's very easy to write doom & gloom opinions based on current situations, which I personally don't think are as bad as some people would hope or like them to be, and I think as soon as those results don't happen in the negative manner they so desire, they'll spin another yarn or drag something else up to appease there obsessions with Chelsea and how we go about our business, which again isn't that bad as the photo above of trophies & titles clearly proves.

We (Sarri) was lucky, finishing where we did was solely down to those around us choking, it wasn't by us playing any better than we had prior, we had 6th (5th at best) written all over us, but thankfully both our neighbors and Utd stuck to their usual trait of imploding, as for the Europa win, yes it's great to win and also qualify for the CL had we finished outside the top 4, but we all know cup runs and wins can be lucky also, it's all on the day, and we had ours, as we will in the future with whoever comes to lead us...

Write us off at your peril 

Click to expand...

People are just judging based on the situation they see in the club

Best player has left
Squad struggles last year
Owner seems to have detached himself
Transfer ban 
Best two young players with serious long term injuries
No manager
Weak squad

If you had a rival in the same position would you not think - "they are going to struggle"

That photo you showed of the trophies won was done when Chelsea had some of the best players in the world and that helped them win those trophies - its hard to see those level of players at Chelsea now that Hazard has left

Is Lampard going to go down the youth road and use players returning from loans - did those players star in the highest league ? 

If Lampard is successful at Chelsea ( wins titles etc ) its prob going to be his most outstanding achievement and one worthy of the highest praise 

Its no about obsessions etc its just about debating the league and the teams , with currently the situation at Chelsea being hot topic


----------



## PieMan (Jun 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Weak squad
		
Click to expand...

You made a number of good and valid points in your post Phil, but I'd disagree with Chelsea having a 'weak' squad - everyone of our match day squad is/was an international player. The Chelsea squad last year was still better than 17 other Premier league sides - it just wasn't as good as both City and Liverpool.

Losing Hazard is absolutely massive for us, but I remember reading a fair few posts on here last season criticising Hazard's inconsistency and how he didn't show up in a number of games!

So whilst losing an 'individual' of that quality and ability is going to hurt massively, from a 'team' perspective we could be better off as we now don't have the 'give the ball to Eden and hope he comes up with a bit of magic' option, which was happening when things were getting desperate - that's easy to defend against. 

But if the transfer ban remains and the new man has to go down the 'youth' route, it actually makes Chelsea a bit of an unknown quantity for next season. I seem to remember a team from Salford doing that about 20 years ago and not doing too badly with kids.........!!!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 17, 2019)

PieMan said:



			You made a number of good and valid points in your post Phil, but I'd disagree with Chelsea having a 'weak' squad - everyone of our match day squad is/was an international player. The Chelsea squad last year was still better than 17 other Premier league sides - it just wasn't as good as both City and Liverpool.

Losing Hazard is absolutely massive for us, but I remember reading a fair few posts on here last season criticising Hazard's inconsistency and how he didn't show up in a number of games!

So whilst losing an 'individual' of that quality and ability is going to hurt massively, from a 'team' perspective we could be better off as we now don't have the 'give the ball to Eden and hope he comes up with a bit of magic' option, which was happening when things were getting desperate - that's easy to defend against.

But if the transfer ban remains and the new man has to go down the 'youth' route, it actually makes Chelsea a bit of an unknown quantity for next season. I seem to remember a team from Salford doing that about 20 years ago and not doing too badly with kids.........!!! 

Click to expand...


The weak squad is more about looking at the squad now after Hazard has left and yeah relative to your rivals.

And Yep Hazard didnt show up in a number of games - especially at times in the big games in the league but he still produced many moments of magic that won you games , suspect Hazard won you more games than any other player did for other teams. 

As for the team mentality when Hazard goes you can not rely on one player - i guess we thought the same when Suarez left , and we still had a lot of quality in the team, but Suarez left it was clear the replacements werent good enough and that we ( indeed all teams ) need that special player to produce that magic - we have it now , City do , even Arsenal with their strikers - now Hazard has gone its really hard to see where the magic comes from to break the deadlock

And if the team goes down the route of youth whilst you are spot in regards what Man Utd did with Butt , Scholes , Neville and Beckham but they were more a one off and a special bunch of players also mainly unknown , Chelseas youth team are scattered all over Europe , and people have seen plenty of them before to see if they are actually good enough - and whilst Hudson Odoi is clearly talented , players like Abraham ?! i dont see him being good enough.


----------



## Slime (Jun 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And if the team goes down the route of youth whilst *you are spot in regards what Man Utd did with Butt , Scholes , Neville and Beckham but they were more a one off and a special bunch of players* also mainly unknown , Chelseas youth team are scattered all over Europe , and people have seen plenty of them before to see if they are actually good enough - and whilst Hudson Odoi is clearly talented , players like Abraham ?! i dont see him being good enough.
		
Click to expand...

They also had the benefit of playing together since they were very young and that has to make a huge difference.
I should imagine that a lot of the Chelsea youngsters have barely met one another.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 18, 2019)

Slime said:



			They also had the benefit of playing together since they were very young and that has to make a huge difference.
I should imagine that a lot of the *Chelsea youngsters have barely met one another.*

Click to expand...

Don't be silly, they've all been playing together at Vitesse.


----------



## Big_G (Jun 18, 2019)

Anyone else wondering how Sarri is going to convince Ronaldo to play "Sarri-ball"


----------



## PieMan (Jun 18, 2019)

Slime said:



			I should imagine that a lot of the Chelsea youngsters have barely met one another.
		
Click to expand...

So all those who turn up to play week in and week out in the Academy Youth Leagues and the U23 League have barely met one another? Blimey we must be putting out a different team each week then!!!


----------



## Fish (Jun 18, 2019)

PieMan said:



			So all those who turn up to play week in and week out in the Academy Youth Leagues and the U23 League have barely met one another? Blimey we must be putting out a different team each week then!!! 

Click to expand...

Itâ€™s amazing isnâ€™t it, makes you wonder how we have won those leagues and FA Cups with so many strangers clocking in & out!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 18, 2019)

Fish said:



			Itâ€™s amazing isnâ€™t it, makes you wonder how we have won those leagues and FA Cups with so many strangers clocking in & out!
		
Click to expand...

The Youth FA Cup is for U18â€™s - how many of them are ready to go into the first team ? 

And the U23 only been around for 3 season - been won Everton twice and Arsenal once 

Before that it was the U21 league from 2012 - Chelsea won it once 

You have been successful in the FA Youth Cup and those teams will be players that canâ€™t go on loan being under 18 - the Under 23s at the club may well be spread all over Europe hence Slimes point. Your Under 23 which is the step below the first team havenâ€™t been that successful prob because the better players are out on loan


----------



## PieMan (Jun 18, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The Youth FA Cup is for U18â€™s - how many of them are ready to go into the first team ?

And the U23 only been around for 3 season - been won Everton twice and Arsenal once

Before that it was the U21 league from 2012 - Chelsea won it once

You have been successful in the FA Youth Cup and those teams will be players that canâ€™t go on loan being under 18 - the Under 23s at the club may well be spread all over Europe hence Slimes point. Your Under 23 which is the step below the first team havenâ€™t been that successful prob because the better players are out on loan
		
Click to expand...

They'll all still know each other though Phil that's the point as they would've played in the same teams coming up through the ranks. Doesn't matter if a load of those are out on loan.

And at Chelsea - probably the same as other clubs - there are staff monitoring the players out on loan, and acting as the liaison between Chelsea and the clubs that have them with regard to their game time, development etc.

A significant number of youth players from the top clubs will go out in loan for first team experience.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 18, 2019)

Chelsea fans, who do you think will be your starting striker next season? I suppose logic suggests Giroud, but if Lamps is the new manager would he give Abraham or Batshuayi the chance, do you think? I have to say none of those three would fill me with confidence of a good goal return. With all the talk of who replaces Hazard's creativity, I think the fact you also don't have a decent goalscoring striker is being slightly overlooked.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 18, 2019)

PieMan said:



			They'll all still know each other though Phil that's the point as they would've played in the same teams coming up through the ranks. Doesn't matter if a load of those are out on loan.
		
Click to expand...

I think the point Slime was making is the players that Utd brought in did develop throughout as a team and then first team - there wasnâ€™t player going on loan apart from Beckham who had 5 games - all the others - Giggs , Nevilleâ€™s etc went through every level together.

Look at Abraham for example - spent about 4 years on loan now ? And there is prob a lot of players in the same situation - we have it with a couple of ours as well. But Itâ€™s going to hard for Chelsea to integrate these players into the team - if they are actually good enough though 




			And at Chelsea - probably the same as other clubs - there are staff monitoring the players out on loan, and acting as the liaison between Chelsea and the clubs that have them with regard to their game time, development etc.

A significant number of youth players from the top clubs will go out in loan for first team experience.
		
Click to expand...

All clubs do it - Chelsea prob a lot more than others expect maybe Arsenal but not many of those going out on loan seem to break through - we donâ€™t have anyone really , Loftus Cheek at Chelsea was very much bit part.

Itâ€™s going to be very hard for Chelsea next season with the squad they have , injuries , transfer ban and the returning youngsters  maybe not being at the required level. As you said it could be a great time for a change of direction for the club - less mass spending and more developing or getting the mix between the two , but to do that would mean patience from owner and fans , and the removal of the instant success attitude that seems to happen.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 19, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think the point Slime was making is the players that Utd brought in did develop throughout as a team and then first team - there wasnâ€™t player going on loan apart from Beckham who had 5 games - all the others - Giggs , Nevilleâ€™s etc went through every level together.

Look at Abraham for example - spent about 4 years on loan now ? And there is prob a lot of players in the same situation - we have it with a couple of ours as well. But Itâ€™s going to hard for Chelsea to integrate these players into the team - if they are actually good enough though



All clubs do it - Chelsea prob a lot more than others expect maybe Arsenal but not many of those going out on loan seem to break through - we donâ€™t have anyone really , Loftus Cheek at Chelsea was very much bit part.

Itâ€™s going to be very hard for Chelsea next season with the squad they have , injuries , transfer ban and the returning youngsters  maybe not being at the required level. As you said it could be a great time for a change of direction for the club - less mass spending and more developing or getting the mix between the two , but to do that would mean patience from owner and fans , and the removal of the instant success attitude that seems to happen.
		
Click to expand...

I think this guy is the worst example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomáš_Kalas 
I know he's getting paid handsomely but still, why on earth did he sign another contract in 2017? He's 26 years old, been there since 2010 and played 4 times for them. Eight seasons out on loan, never settling into a club really. I don't know why players would want a career like that.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 19, 2019)

Excellent goal for Foden last night.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1141077865200607235
Will we see him get more appearances at City next season? Knowing Pep it'll be at left back...


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 19, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Excellent goal for Foden last night.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1141077865200607235
Will we see him get more appearances at City next season? Knowing Pep it'll be at left back...
		
Click to expand...

Shame they couldn't hold on with 10 men. Looked out on their feet but I guess got lucky as France missed two penalties. Bad mix up for the decider though


----------



## fundy (Jun 19, 2019)

Saw most of the game, some pretty ordinary performances from some players being touted around with some hefty price tags


----------



## IanM (Jun 19, 2019)

Big_G said:



			Anyone else wondering how Sarri is going to convince Ronaldo to play "Sarri-ball"
		
Click to expand...

...won't bother him, Sarri will put him in goal!


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 19, 2019)

Â£4m profit made on Vlasic.
Â£22m fee agreed for Andre Gomes. Been a good day.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 19, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Â£4m profit made on Vlasic.
Â£22m fee agreed for Andre Gomes. Been a good day.
		
Click to expand...

If you are going to have a good relationship with a European club then Barcelona are a pretty good one to work well with. Great news on Gomes, probably the best signing we will make this summer.


----------



## fundy (Jun 19, 2019)

Surprised no other clubs tried to hijack the Gomes tfr, wouldve happily seen him at Arsenal thats for sure


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2019)

fundy said:



			Surprised no other clubs tried to hijack the Gomes tfr, wouldve happily seen him at Arsenal thats for sure
		
Click to expand...

He appeared to be a bit inconsistent and didnâ€™t appear when it was a bit tough - looked very classy on the ball but in the games I saw him he went missing or had a stormer , one of the games against us he was very good. He seems a tidy player but I donâ€™t see him scoring or creating enough - So Iâ€™m not sure where he would fit in at a number of the top clubs.


----------



## MegaSteve (Jun 19, 2019)

Anyone know who'll be doing the commentary etc for the Amazon games?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 20, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1141441519964053505
I donâ€™t think anyone has issues with people going on holiday and having fun but why is he acting like this and then posting it all over the internet - he isnâ€™t a teenager anymore , the guy is 27 now , needs to grow the hell up , Iâ€™m sure Utd fans are delighted to see this spread all over the net .


----------



## Slime (Jun 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I donâ€™t think anyone has issues with people going on holiday and having fun but *why is he acting like this and then posting it all over the internet *- he isnâ€™t a teenager anymore , the guy is 27 now , needs to grow the hell up , Iâ€™m sure Utd fans are delighted to see this spread all over the net .
		
Click to expand...

.......................... and why are you posting it all over a golf forum?
You seem a little bit obsessed with him, is there something you want to tell us?


----------



## AuburnWarrior (Jun 20, 2019)

I'm looking forward to the last game of the season - home to Spurs...it'll be a wonderful occasion - best atmosphere in the Premier League and I'll be there to see Luka lift the red and blue adorned Premier League trophy...

Stick your mortgage on it...


----------



## 4LEX (Jun 20, 2019)

J Lingz is part of the reason why Man Utd are f**ked. He's actually a decent squad player but this stuff is laughable after the season he and his club have had. To think Ferguson bombed out one of the most professional and hard working players in Beckham - yet this idiot and Pogba are allowed to behave like giant babies


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 20, 2019)

4LEX said:



			J Lingz is part of the reason why Man Utd are f**ked. He's actually a decent squad player but this stuff is laughable after the season he and his club have had. To think Ferguson bombed out one of the most professional and hard working players in Beckham - yet this idiot and Pogba are allowed to behave like giant babies 

Click to expand...

They should lock him in a room with Roy Keane for half hour.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jun 20, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			They should lock him in a room with Roy Keane for half hour.
		
Click to expand...

He's start crying the moment Keane walked into the room...


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 21, 2019)

It's post-season, it's a Friday, so here's a quiz.

https://www.planetfootball.com/quizzes/can-name-top-english-goalscorer-every-prem-season/ 

I got 28/29 but I wouldn't have got the last one if I had 48 hours to guess.  Fair play if you get them all.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 21, 2019)

All but 3, would never have got those 3 even though one of them played for Everton. That was tough!


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 21, 2019)

One lad at my work got 25, and he's only 21 or 22 years old. Pretty impressive from him really.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 21, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			One lad at my work got 25, and he's only 21 or 22 years old. Pretty impressive from him really.
		
Click to expand...

I got 18 then gave up with 7 mins left lol little one was grabbing my phone

how did I forget rooney... jezz 

sheringham shamefully 

lambert .. 

cant remember the rest I missed lol


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 21, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			I got 18 then gave up with 7 mins left lol little one was grabbing my phone

how did I forget rooney... jezz

sheringham shamefully

lambert ..

cant remember the rest I missed lol
		
Click to expand...

The solitary name I didn't get was... 



Spoiler



Dion Dublin. Swear he's a daytime TV host not a footballer??


----------



## sam85 (Jun 21, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			I got 18 then gave up with 7 mins left lol little one was grabbing my phone

how did I forget rooney... jezz

sheringham shamefully

lambert ..

cant remember the rest I missed lol
		
Click to expand...

It took me about 5 minutes to realise the question was top ENGLISH scorers, tried untold different possible spellings of Van Persie and Van Nistelrooy and was getting pretty pissed off with myself until i saw it was only English players  What a tit!!

I got 21 in the end and got them all up to 03-04 which makes sense as that was when I was 18 and football no longer became an obsession.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 21, 2019)

sam85 said:



			It took me about 5 minutes to realise the question was top ENGLISH scorers, tried untold different possible spellings of Van Persie and Van Nistelrooy and was getting pretty pissed off with myself until i saw it was only English players  What a tit!!

I got 21 in the end and got them all up to 03-04 which makes sense as that was when I was 18 and football no longer became an obsession.
		
Click to expand...

I did exactly the same. Luckily the first thing I wrote was 'Salah' so I had to quickly figure out why it hadn't worked.


----------



## sam85 (Jun 21, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I did exactly the same. Luckily the first thing I wrote was 'Salah' so I had to quickly figure out why it hadn't worked. 

Click to expand...

He was the first one I did too, and it still didn't register in my head


----------



## Papas1982 (Jun 22, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			It's post-season, it's a Friday, so here's a quiz.

https://www.planetfootball.com/quizzes/can-name-top-english-goalscorer-every-prem-season/

I got 28/29 but I wouldn't have got the last one if I had 48 hours to guess.  Fair play if you get them all.
		
Click to expand...

I managed 28 also. And of all the ones to miss, he played for us at the bleeding time!


----------



## fundy (Jun 24, 2019)

Been confirmed Rafas leaving Newcastle. Be interesting to see who wants to work for Ashley lol


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 24, 2019)

fundy said:



			Been confirmed Rafas leaving Newcastle. Be interesting to see who wants to work for Ashley lol
		
Click to expand...

Plenty will take it because the money is good, it is a chance for an out of work manager and it is the PL. They wont get a good manager because of Ashley, it will definitely be a second grade manager. The shame for Newcastle is that Benitez is a top level manager and they have not had one of those for many years. To lose him when he didn't really want to leave is criminal.

Back for pre-season next week. New manager, new coaching staff needed. Transfer targets thrown away, new ones to be found, existing squad to be re-assesed by new man in, more time wasted. Well done Newcastle.


----------



## Jensen (Jun 24, 2019)

fundy said:



			Been confirmed Rafas leaving Newcastle. Be interesting to see who wants to work for Ashley lol
		
Click to expand...

Maybe somebody off the shop floor at Sports Direct ðŸ˜„


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 24, 2019)

Is the sale of Newcastle still on the cards? If so, a nice parting gift from Ashley to let their top quality manager do a bunk.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 24, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Is the sale of Newcastle still on the cards? If so, a nice parting gift from Ashley to let their top quality manager do a bunk. 

Click to expand...

Supposedly so but it has gone very quiet. The local paper is padding every day with no actual updates.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 24, 2019)

Sounds like he's after a big payday in China https://www.skysports.com/football/...ve-newcastle-when-contract-expires-on-june-30


----------



## Slime (Jun 24, 2019)

Roy Keane is suddenly available.


----------



## Wolf (Jun 24, 2019)

My Mrs is a manager at a Sports Direct gym, wonder if she'll get a promotion to top job ðŸ˜‚

Big blunder that from the Toon to let Rafa walk, won't get someone of his quality back in. Still is Pulis looking for work these days....


----------



## User62651 (Jun 24, 2019)

Shame, soft spot for Newcastle Utd. Like Rafa too but he's right to go if they can't let him do his job unhindered.

Likely back in the Championship in 11 months then. They will need to put more onus on good scouting rather than just buying.

Can see the crowd in a right grump all next season. Least they're not in as bad fettle as their near neighbours.

Who's out there? - Puel, Mcleish, Gattuso, Wenger, Ranieri.........https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/trainer/verfuegbaretrainer/statistik


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 24, 2019)

Bookies favourite for the Magpies is Mikel Arteta, weirdly.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 24, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Bookies favourite for the Magpies is Mikel Arteta, weirdly.
		
Click to expand...

Why go there when you are number 2 at City? It makes no sense. I also saw the bookies quoting Eddie Howe. Again, why would he leave Bournemouth for Newcastle?

Both will leave their jobs at some point but it makes no sense for them to go to Newcastle, it is a basket case and would only, likely, put their careers back.

Gary Monk has been quoted. That would be up Ashley's street. No compensation to pay out, he would be cheap to employ, used to working on a limited budget. It would make sense for him, back in the PL, decent salary etc. The fans would not like it but that doesn't come into it.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 24, 2019)

Second favourite was Chris Hughton, I found that hilarious as well. Why would he go back after how he was treated the last time!?


----------



## Jensen (Jun 24, 2019)

Big loss for the Toon, Rafa did a fantastic job last season, but in particular the season before that. 
Shame really, he's loved up here and he clearly loves the fans and the club. I think it's a perfect combination.
Makes you wonder how Ashley has become a multi millionaire. Surely basic business sense when trying to sell something is to make it appealing. Without a quality manager in place, its like a ship without a rudder.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 24, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Big loss for the Toon, Rafa did a fantastic job last season, but in particular the season before that.
Shame really, he's loved up here and he clearly loves the fans and the club. I think it's a perfect combination.
*Makes you wonder how Ashley has become a multi millionaire*. Surely basic business sense when trying to sell something is to make it appealing. Without a quality manager in place, its like a ship without a rudder.
		
Click to expand...

Because he's tighter than a duck's arse.


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 24, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Big loss for the Toon, Rafa did a fantastic job last season, but in particular the season before that.
Shame really, he's loved up here and he clearly loves the fans and the club. I think it's a perfect combination.
Makes you wonder how Ashley has become a multi millionaire. Surely basic business sense when trying to sell something is to make it appealing. Without a quality manager in place, its like a ship without a rudder.
		
Click to expand...

Potential buyer(s) might have said they want to appoint their own man...


----------



## pieface (Jun 24, 2019)

Really struggle to see how Newcastle will stay up this season without Benitez at the helm, unless Ashley spends big money which I canâ€™t see happening. Although having said that Fulham spent a fair whack last year and it did them no favours.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 24, 2019)

Is Slavisia Jokanovic still out of work? I think he might be a dark horse to put a quid on if so to get the job. I feel a little sorry for the Newcastle fans as Ashley finds a new way regularly to screw around with the club. I can really see them struggling this season and wonder if they get embroiled in a relegation fight Ashley will cut his losses and sell before they go down


----------



## Wolf (Jun 24, 2019)

Just seen something on sky sports now. 

Avram Grant, please tell me this is for comedy factor 


https://www.skysports.com/football/...der-consideration-for-a-position-at-newcastle


----------



## fundy (Jun 25, 2019)

Chelsea been given permission to talk to Lampard by Derby, really not sure what to think of this. Will obviously be a popular person with the Chelsea fans, will be critical he has the right people around him but could work out, especially in the short term if the transfer ban stays in place. Be interesting to see how much support he gets from Abramovic if things dont go well straight away though


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 25, 2019)

I can't believe Maguire is being linked to City, and talk of Â£80m is ridiculous. He's not good enough! And 80 million would be insane. Remember when people thought 75 for VVD was a lot?? Jesus Christ. 

Maguire is also being linked to United which makes a massive amount more sense. But still, 80 mil, forget that. Ludicrous.


----------



## PieMan (Jun 25, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I can't believe Maguire is being linked to City, and talk of Â£80m is ridiculous. He's not good enough! And 80 million would be insane. Remember when people thought 75 for VVD was a lot?? Jesus Christ.

Maguire is also being linked to United which makes a massive amount more sense. But still, 80 mil, forget that. Ludicrous.
		
Click to expand...

Why isn't he good enough? He's been in a Premiership winning team; he's an established International in a team that is ranked the fourth best in the World. Certainly meets the criteria to me to be a 'good enough' player for Man City. Whenever I've seen Leicester play he's always been one of their better performers. 

As for the suggested price tag, every player is now massively over-priced! And this is Man City calling - every club puts their prices up when City come calling as they can afford to pay ridiculous sums of money! Let's face it Maguire will become a far better footballer under Pep than he will under OGS, so the move makes perfect sense for him.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 25, 2019)

Harry Maguire didn't join Leicester until 2017, he did not play for them in the title winning campaign, he was playing for Hull in the Championship that season. Â£80m is mental for Maguire, even in this market.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 25, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Let's face it Maguire will become a far better footballer under Pep than he will under OGS, so the move makes perfect sense for him.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed providing he gets the game time. That's half the battle for any City player is getting into the first team and then staying there. I do think he'll improve at City which can only benefit England. Is he worth that much? No, but there again I don't think 99% of the players are actually worth as much as being paid for them.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 25, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Why isn't he good enough? He's been in a Premiership winning team; he's an established International in a team that is ranked the fourth best in the World. Certainly meets the criteria to me to be a 'good enough' player for Man City. Whenever I've seen Leicester play he's always been one of their better performers.

As for the suggested price tag, every player is now massively over-priced! And this is Man City calling - every club puts their prices up when City come calling as they can afford to pay ridiculous sums of money! Let's face it Maguire will become a far better footballer under Pep than he will under OGS, so the move makes perfect sense for him.
		
Click to expand...

Firstly, no he hasn't won the league. Secondly, I don't think he's really international quality either, but England have a paucity of options in that area. He's fantastic in the air but far too over-confident with the ball, wanders out with it, loses it in key areas I find, and he's not the quickest either. There's no way he's a good enough centre back to play for one of the best club sides in the world. And if he is, then that's a sorry reflection on how defending as an art has taken a nosedive in the last 10-15 years.


----------



## PieMan (Jun 25, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Firstly, no he hasn't won the league. Secondly, I don't think he's really international quality either, but England have a paucity of options in that area. He's fantastic in the air but far too over-confident with the ball, wanders out with it, loses it in key areas I find, and he's not the quickest either. There's no way he's a good enough centre back to play for one of the best club sides in the world. And if he is, then that's a sorry reflection on how defending as an art has taken a nosedive in the last 10-15 years.
		
Click to expand...

Yep got the league bit wrong but there you go.

So if he does make the move to City then are you saying that your a better judge of player over Pep?


----------



## PieMan (Jun 25, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Harry Maguire didn't join Leicester until 2017, he did not play for them in the title winning campaign, he was playing for Hull in the Championship that season. Â£80m is mental for Maguire, even in this market.
		
Click to expand...

Yep got the league bit wrong; and I agree Â£80m is mental for Maguire.........but not according to Man City! If he does go then Pep clearly wants him and can see how he will improve the City defence.


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 25, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Why isn't he good enough? He's been in a Premiership winning team; he's an established International in a team that is ranked the fourth best in the World. Certainly meets the criteria to me to be a 'good enough' player for Man City. Whenever I've seen Leicester play he's always been one of their better performers.

As for the suggested price tag, every player is now massively over-priced! And this is Man City calling - every club puts their prices up when City come calling as they can afford to pay ridiculous sums of money! Let's face it Maguire will become a far better footballer under Pep than he will under OGS, so the move makes perfect sense for him.
		
Click to expand...

Pep has sure worked miracles with a younger, more talented CB in Stones, right enough...


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 25, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Yep got the league bit wrong but there you go.

So if he does make the move to City then are you saying that your a better judge of player over Pep?
		
Click to expand...

What I'm saying is I'd be shocked if it happens. But then again he already signed Stones who's next to useless as well. You do know that even the world's best managers make mistakes though right? Fergie signed Djemba Djemba you know.


----------



## PieMan (Jun 25, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			What I'm saying is I'd be shocked if it happens. But then again he already signed Stones who's next to useless as well. You do know that even the world's best managers make mistakes though right? Fergie signed Djemba Djemba you know.
		
Click to expand...

Indeed they do............but at the end of the day they've reached the very top of their profession by actually knowing something about the top of the pro game and not spouting off rubbish on a golf forum..............!!!


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 25, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Indeed they do............but at the end of the day they've reached the very top of their profession by actually knowing something about the top of the pro game and not spouting off rubbish on a golf forum..............!!! 

Click to expand...

Guardiola pulled out all the stops to bring Claudio Bravo in in goal. That is all.


----------



## SteveW86 (Jun 25, 2019)

Dont forget City need homegrown players, they had a squad of 21 last year because they only had 4 homegrown players, not the 8 they should have. Again, clubs know this and its also part of the reason anyone one who is half decent and English suddenly costs 50% more than they are worth.


----------



## PieMan (Jun 25, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Pep has sure worked miracles with a younger, more talented CB in Stones, right enough...
		
Click to expand...

Ah yes John Stones. A player so bad that he only has 2 PL titles, and FA Cup and EFL Cup winners medals to his name!! 

How many have you picked up again?!!


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 25, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Ah yes John Stones. A player so bad that he only has 2 PL titles, and FA Cup and EFL Cup winners medals to his name!! 

How many have you picked up again?!! 

Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s not how analysis of sport works though, is it?


----------



## PieMan (Jun 25, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Guardiola pulled out all the stops to bring Claudio Bravo in in goal. That is all.
		
Click to expand...

He sure did........

How many trophies has Pep won in his managerial career though?

And how many have you won?!!!


----------



## Wolf (Jun 25, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Guardiola pulled out all the stops to bring Claudio Bravo in in goal. That is all.
		
Click to expand...

And Potechino brought in....... Sorry couldn't resist ðŸ˜‚

Guardiola is a class act not because he always goes out and buys the best individual player for their position, but he buys the best player to fit his teams system in order to work better as a collective unit. 

Maguire will do a great job at City and will fit what Pep needs not necessarily what fans want.


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 25, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1143487847703482368
Suarez appealing for a handball...


----------



## PieMan (Jun 25, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Thatâ€™s not how analysis of sport works though, is it?
		
Click to expand...

And with the utmost respect - how are you qualified to say that John Stones, a guy playing in the best club side in Britain, an England International, is actually not that great a player?

Unless I've very much mistaken, we don't have any professional footballers on this forum; nor managers of professional sides.


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 25, 2019)

PieMan said:



			And with the utmost respect - how are you qualified to say that John Stones, a guy playing in the best club side in Britain, an England International, is actually not that great a player?

Unless I've very much mistaken, we don't have any professional footballers on this forum; nor managers of professional sides.
		
Click to expand...

Where did I say he isnâ€™t a great player?


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 25, 2019)

Since when did you have to be a professional football manager to share an opinion on Football? Might as well close the thread now if that's the case.


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 25, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1143498215767101440
Do love his antics some times.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 25, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			Dont forget City need homegrown players, they had a squad of 21 last year because they only had 4 homegrown players, not the 8 they should have. Again, clubs know this and its also part of the reason anyone one who is half decent and English suddenly costs 50% more than they are worth.
		
Click to expand...

100%. That homegrown rule is awful. All it's done is drive up the prices of English players, who then move to sit on the bench and make up quotas.



PieMan said:



			He sure did........

How many trophies has Pep won in his managerial career though?

And how many have you won?!!! 

Click to expand...

You don't half talk some absolute rubbish. This is a football discussion thread, its sole purpose is to discuss football which means giving our opinions. You're a Chelsea fan aren't you, did you never once look at Sarri last season and disagree with a decision he made? Football must be a bit boring if you just blindly watch it without forming an opinion at all.


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 25, 2019)

Extrapolate that and youâ€™d never have an opinion on anything. 

Iâ€™ve never acted. Canâ€™t find an actor bad. Never directed a film - canâ€™t find a film bad. Never built a car - canâ€™t complain when my exhaust falls off. 

Clearly fishing.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 25, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Extrapolate that and youâ€™d never have an opinion on anything.

Iâ€™ve never acted. Canâ€™t find an actor bad. Never directed a film - canâ€™t find a film bad. Never built a car - canâ€™t complain when my exhaust falls off.

Clearly fishing.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly, I've never heard such rubbish. One wonders why he signed up to this golf forum, since he's not a professional golfer he can't possibly share an opinion on clubs, courses, tour players, etc.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 25, 2019)

Kellfire said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1143498215767101440
Do love his antics some times.
		
Click to expand...

The man is scum.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jun 25, 2019)

Chelsea in with an offer that's not two deer.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-sc...ys-playing-football-in-the-scottish-highlands


----------



## Khamelion (Jun 25, 2019)

Conspiracy theory:-

Rafa walks, he's had a big pay day from the company coming in, said company go back to Ashley with a reduced price to buy club, highly unlikely but I did say it was a conspiracy theory
or
New company coming in, didn't want Rafa as manager, they have their own manager in mind, Jose maybe, again very unlikely.
or
Ashley is just thick as two short planks, sees NUFC for what it is, a cash cow, that he can bleed dry sod all the consequences, while in the EPL, but is to stupid to sell the club while in the EPL and will force the club down the same road as Sunderland. Sadly the only way Ashley leaves NUFC is if NUFC joins SAFC in league 1

I know which option will be the reality, hope I'm wrong.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 25, 2019)

Sadly Khamelion I don't think Ashley cares who is manager so option 1 is out of the door. He will not reduce the fee for Rafa leaving, he will not blink

2 is a possible option, not the Jose bit but having their own option for manager. There is logic in that, why sign a manager on a contract when the new owners do not want him

3 is the more likely reality, sad to say.


----------



## Fish (Jun 25, 2019)

Khamelion said:



			Conspiracy theory:-

Rafa walks, he's had a big pay day from the company coming in, said company go back to Ashley with a reduced price to buy club, highly unlikely but I did say it was a conspiracy theory
or
New company coming in, didn't want Rafa as manager, they have their own manager in mind, Jose maybe, again very unlikely.
or
Ashley is just thick as two short planks, sees NUFC for what it is, a cash cow, that he can bleed dry sod all the consequences, while in the EPL, but is to stupid to sell the club while in the EPL and will force the club down the same road as Sunderland. Sadly the only way Ashley leaves NUFC is if NUFC joins SAFC in league 1

I know which option will be the reality, hope I'm wrong.
		
Click to expand...

Garry Monk on his way north


----------



## Khamelion (Jun 25, 2019)

As a toon fan, it very sad to say that I hope Newcastle sink without a trace, it's the only way that Ashley will leave, while the club is in the EPL and making money to line his pocket, while season ticket sales still occur, while he can still turn a profit, he'll stay.

I can see Almiron, Perez, Hayden, Lascelles, Dubravka, you name them, all looking to head out the door to pastures new and who could blame them?


----------



## Wolf (Jun 25, 2019)

Not Premier league related but according to reports Neymar has agreed terms with Barcelona. The deal is  â‚¬100m plus Coutinho


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 25, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Not Premier league related but according to reports Neymar has agreed terms with Barcelona. The deal is  â‚¬100m plus Coutinho
		
Click to expand...

Wonder how much his father will be making out of it.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 25, 2019)

Just had an email from Everton. Andre Gomes is officially an Everton player on a permanent deal. Nice start to the summer.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 26, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Just had an email from Everton. Andre Gomes is officially an Everton player on a permanent deal. Nice start to the summer.
		
Click to expand...

Good signing who seemed to fit in well on loan last season and clearly happy at the club. Has to be a win win. What are your expectations as an Everton fan for the new season


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 26, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Good signing who seemed to fit in well on loan last season and clearly happy at the club. Has to be a win win. What are your expectations as an Everton fan for the new season
		
Click to expand...

Yeah really happy with the signing, he was great last season. Perfect for the PL, works incredibly hard, superb on the ball, happy to battle for possession in midfield, creative going forward and formed a really solid partnership with Idrissa. As for the new season, depends on how well the transfer window goes really. We're in desperate need of a new CB if we can't get Zouma back, if we can't get him then we're 2 CBs down from last season and relying on Keane and the almost constantly injured Mina. Definitely need one or two more. Interested to see what Brands and Silva have planned this summer, think we'll be making some big moves.

Seems Spurs have agreed a fee for the incredibly talented Tanguy Ndombele from Lyon. He's exactly the sort of player they need, the much needed replacement for Moussa Dembele. Also reading rumours that Lo Celso is on his way there as well, would be two very good early signings for them.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 26, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Seems Spurs have agreed a fee for the incredibly talented Tanguy Ndombele from Lyon. He's exactly the sort of player they need, the much needed replacement for Moussa Dembele. Also reading rumours that Lo Celso is on his way there as well, would be two very good early signings for them.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, a lot of good talk about Ndombele deal being agreed. Until he signs for Liverpool tomorrow no doubt.  But 100% looks like the perfect Dembele replacement in the couple of games I saw him in. Hopefully he hits the ground running, alongside his countryman Sissoko who also settled quickly and was immediately brilliant as I recall.  Not sure if we'll get Lo Celso as well given they're both midfielders, but we'll see. I think priority wise we need to be looking at a new right back, and another forward/wide option, since much as I like Lamela, he really doesn't offer enough year on year.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 26, 2019)

David Silva has announced this will be his last season at City. What a player he has been for them, a real class act. They seem to have a progression plan in place but he will still be missed.


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 26, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			David Silva has announced this will be his last season at City. What a player he has been for them, a real class act. They seem to have a progression plan in place but he will still be missed.
		
Click to expand...

A Rolls-Royce of a player.


----------



## 4LEX (Jun 26, 2019)

Silva is a class act. Small but with the heart of a lion and velcro on his left foot. Was prone to the reverse hollywood pass at the start but has matured into the best creative midfielder in the league over the last 5-6 years.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 26, 2019)

Reports now that Wan-Bissaka to Man Utd is on the verge of completion. Good move for the lad actually, he'll start most games and it puts him in the England reckoning. Although, weirdly, for our strongest position in the side.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 26, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Reports now that Wan-Bissaka to Man Utd is on the verge of completion. Good move for the lad actually, he'll start most games and it puts him in the England reckoning. Although, weirdly, for our strongest position in the side. 

Click to expand...

Disappointing move. He looks a good player and will improve the team . An awful lot of money for him but values are screwy now so who knows anymore.

Good amount of money for Palace as well, they can buy a few players with that.


----------



## Slime (Jun 26, 2019)

I'm thinking that's a good deal for all involved.
English players demand a stupid premium, but hey, it's been that way for a long time.
I think he represents better VFM than Maguire - at up to Â£80M!
For that price I'd be happy of he went to City .................................. I think.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jun 26, 2019)

Slime said:



			I'm thinking that's a good deal for all involved.
English players demand a stupid premium, but hey, it's been that way for a long time.
I think he represents better VFM than Maguire - at up to Â£80M!
For that price I'd be happy of he went to City .................................. I think.
		
Click to expand...

From what I've read City have "only" offered Â£60 million for him. United we're prepared to pay more but he wants to go to City instead. Will be interesting to watch this one unfold.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 27, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1144117483512762368
Rooney! Rooney! Rooney!

Can't even blame the keeper this time. That's just class.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 27, 2019)

Interesting signing for Spurs , looked decent on the odd few occasions seen him , going to be sat in front of the back four - young strong - replacement for Dembele. Good signing but does that mean someone is leaving ? Eriksen , Dier ? 

Think he has more potential and ability than Rodri who City are looking to buy 

Certainly better value than Â£50mil for Wan Bissaka


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Interesting signing for Spurs , looked decent on the odd few occasions seen him , going to be sat in front of the back four - young strong - replacement for Dembele. Good signing but does that mean someone is leaving ? Eriksen , Dier ?

Think he has more potential and ability than Rodri who City are looking to buy

Certainly better value than Â£50mil for Wan Bissaka
		
Click to expand...

Certainly.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Interesting signing for Spurs , looked decent on the odd few occasions seen him , going to be sat in front of the back four - young strong - replacement for Dembele. Good signing but does that mean someone is leaving ? Eriksen , Dier ?

Think he has more potential and ability than Rodri who City are looking to buy

Certainly better value than Â£50mil for Wan Bissaka
		
Click to expand...

I don't think it means someone is leaving. And if Dier is leaving then it's no great loss. While I've only seen him play 2 or 3 times, Ndombele does look exactly the player we need to replace Dembele. Hopefully the presence of Sissoko alongside him, and Lloris as club captain will help him settle quickly. 

If you consider that being English adds Â£10m to the price anyway, I don't think 50 is too bad for Wan-Bissaka in all honesty. He's only 21 so all his best years are ahead, and we already know he can play well in the Premier League so there's very little risk - he also improves on their other RB options. They could get 10 years out of him, best case scenario.


----------



## Slime (Jun 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Interesting signing for Spurs , looked decent on the odd few occasions seen him , going to be sat in front of the back four - young strong - replacement for Dembele. Good signing but does that mean someone is leaving ? Eriksen , Dier ?

Think he has more potential and ability than Rodri who City are looking to buy

Certainly better value than Â£50mil for Wan Bissaka
		
Click to expand...

You never disappoint, Phil, you never disappoint.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 27, 2019)

Slime said:



			You never disappoint, Phil, you never disappoint.
		
Click to expand...

Oh no ðŸ˜± , itâ€™s almost as if itâ€™s a shock that youâ€™re offended by someone being slightly critical about Man Utd when itâ€™s so easy at the moment with everything they do. 

The team is in dire need of CB , CMâ€™s and prob strikers that for me spending Â£50mil on someone who hasnâ€™t even played a full international yet isnâ€™t as good as value as Spurs spending Â£65 mil on someone who is playing full internationals for prob the best international team at the moment. He is a decent player but for me thatâ€™s a bit overpriced , not as bad as the Â£80mil on Maguire though


----------



## Slime (Jun 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Oh no ðŸ˜± , itâ€™s almost as if itâ€™s a shock that youâ€™re offended by someone being slightly critical about Man Utd when itâ€™s so easy at the moment with everything they do.

The team is in dire need of CB , CMâ€™s and prob strikers that for me spending Â£50mil on someone who hasnâ€™t even played a full international yet isnâ€™t as good as value as Spurs spending Â£65 mil on someone who is playing full internationals for prob the best international team at the moment. He is a decent player but for me thatâ€™s a bit overpriced , not as bad as the Â£80mil on Maguire though
		
Click to expand...

Not offended in the slightest, I've been highly critical, of the shambles that is Man United, many times myself.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Oh no ðŸ˜± , itâ€™s almost as if itâ€™s a shock that youâ€™re offended by someone being slightly critical about Man Utd when itâ€™s so easy at the moment with everything they do.

The team is in dire need of CB , CMâ€™s and prob strikers that for me spending Â£50mil on someone who hasnâ€™t even played a full international yet isnâ€™t as good as value as Spurs spending Â£65 mil on someone who is playing full internationals for prob the best international team at the moment. He is a decent player but for me thatâ€™s a bit overpriced , not as bad as the Â£80mil on Maguire though
		
Click to expand...

Why does it matter if he's played an international? He's destined to be back-up for Alexander-Arnold his whole career anyway by the looks of it. They signed De Gea 3 years before he played an international, and that worked out alright.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 27, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Why does it matter if he's played an international? He's destined to be back-up for Alexander-Arnold his whole career anyway by the looks of it. They signed De Gea 3 years before he played an international, and that worked out alright.
		
Click to expand...

Because itâ€™s just my opinion , he is a decent player , looked a bit shakey for the U21â€™s recently and just think itâ€™s a bit too much money for someone very much unproven over a consistent period. And well done on picking one signing that worked out - how many havenâ€™t ðŸ™„


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 27, 2019)

I see Liverpool have signed a non-international. What a waste of a few quid.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Oh no ðŸ˜± , itâ€™s almost as if itâ€™s a shock that youâ€™re offended by someone being slightly critical about Man Utd when itâ€™s so easy at the moment with everything they do.

The team is in dire need of CB , CMâ€™s and prob strikers that for me spending Â£50mil on someone who hasnâ€™t even played a full international yet isnâ€™t as good as value as Spurs spending Â£65 mil on someone who is playing full internationals for prob the best international team at the moment. He is a decent player but for me thatâ€™s a bit overpriced , not as bad as the Â£80mil on Maguire though
		
Click to expand...

You really are goodbye Phil,talking about people being offended ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£

Itâ€™s the way that you find a negative when other teams make signings,havenâ€™t played in the Prem,other players must be leaving.....

Yet when Liverpool are linked with players theyâ€™re world beaters & none of your players will ever be leaving ðŸ˜³ðŸ™ˆ


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 27, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			I see Liverpool have signed a non-international. What a waste of a few quid.
		
Click to expand...

Give him a minutes to google a few stats & heâ€™ll put a good spin on it.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 27, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			I see Liverpool have signed a non-international. What a waste of a few quid.
		
Click to expand...

Yep Â£1.5 mil rising to Â£4mil ðŸ™„ such a big waste and huge fee in this day and age ðŸ™„


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because itâ€™s just my opinion , he is a decent player , looked a bit shakey for the U21â€™s recently and just think itâ€™s a bit too much money for someone very much unproven over a consistent period. And well done on picking one signing that worked out - how many havenâ€™t ðŸ™„
		
Click to expand...

Unproven? I think being Premier League quality is actually a higher accolade than being international quality these days, and he was solid for Palace for the entirety of last season. 

Tackles per game, he was 3rd in the entire Premier League. The two above him both centre mids, so he was the top defender.
Interceptions per game, 7th in the Premier League.


----------



## Slime (Jun 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Interesting signing for Spurs , looked decent on the odd few occasions seen him , going to be sat in front of the back four - young strong - replacement for Dembele. Good signing but does that mean someone is leaving ? Eriksen , Dier ?

Think he has more potential and ability than Rodri who City are looking to buy

Certainly better value than Â£50mil for Wan Bissaka
		
Click to expand...




Slime said:



			You never disappoint, Phil, you never disappoint.
		
Click to expand...




Pin-seeker said:



			You really are goodbye Phil,talking about people being offended ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£

*Itâ€™s the way that you find a negative* when other teams make signings,havenâ€™t played in the Prem,other players must be leaving.....

Yet when Liverpool are linked with players theyâ€™re world beaters & none of your players will ever be leaving ðŸ˜³ðŸ™ˆ
		
Click to expand...

......................... and that was my point, I just couldn't be bothered to write it all down.
Pin-seeker put it very well, Phil, you just have to find a negative, sometimes subtly, sometimes blatantly, for virtually everything that's not Liverpool.
First quoted post, positive regarding Spurs and then negatives towards Spurs, City and United.
Very predictable.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 27, 2019)

Slime said:



			......................... and that was my point, I just couldn't be bothered to write it all down.
Pin-seeker put it very well, Phil, you just have to find a negative, sometimes subtly, sometimes blatantly, for virtually everything that's not Liverpool.
First quoted post, positive regarding Spurs and then negatives towards Spurs, City and United.
Very predictable.
		
Click to expand...

He even found a negative about spurs making a good signing,it means someone is leaving. 

Suggest that about Liverpool & no way is anybody leaving,theyâ€™re strengthening the squad ðŸ¤·â€â™‚ï¸


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 27, 2019)

Slime said:



			......................... and that was my point, I just couldn't be bothered to write it all down.
Pin-seeker put it very well, Phil, you just have to find a negative, sometimes subtly, sometimes blatantly, for virtually everything that's not Liverpool.
First quoted post, positive regarding Spurs and then negatives towards Spurs, City and United.
Very predictable.
		
Click to expand...

I think you are looking for something that isnâ€™t there - if itâ€™s got to the stage that people are going to react just because someone rates someone else over another player then whatâ€™s the point 

Read the post again and show me where I have been that critical about a player that it justifies the overreaction ? 

I havenâ€™t said Wan Bissaka is a bad player , or Rodri is a bad player , havenâ€™t said that they are bad signings etc etc 

I see one player as a better value signing than another and see one player has a better player than another - thatâ€™s all , simple as that. Think itâ€™s just a case of people reacting to who is making the post as opposed to the content of the post.


----------



## SteveW86 (Jun 27, 2019)

Its very hard at the minute to determine whether a signing is good value for money, that can only really be decided afterwards. The highly inflated prices we are now seeing just put more pressure on the situation and make a lot of signings look bad.

If Wan-Bissaka goes on to play 10 seasons for Man Utd, then he will go on to be great value for money. Whether he is an international player I think is irrelevant. For me, its the same with all signings. Many people thought Â£75m for VVD was ridiculous, but Liverpool have probably made that transfer fee back in prize money this season and he now looks a bargain. 

I'm sure those that were around at the time thought Â£1m for Trevor Francis was ridiculous, whereas you'd struggle to buy a 16 year old who can do 5 keepy uppys for that price now.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think you are looking for something that isnâ€™t there - if itâ€™s got to the stage that people are going to react just because someone rates someone else over another player then whatâ€™s the point

Read the post again and show me where I have been that critical about a player that it justifies the overreaction ?

I havenâ€™t said Wan Bissaka is a bad player , or Rodri is a bad player , havenâ€™t said that they are bad signings etc etc

I see one player as a better value signing than another and see one player has a better player than another - thatâ€™s all , simple as that. Think itâ€™s just a case of people reacting to who is making the post as opposed to the content of the post.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe youâ€™re just misunderstood by a lot of people Phil ðŸ‘ðŸ»


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 27, 2019)

In other news, looks like Joao Felix is off to Atletico. Spending that Griezmann money before he's gone, picking up Felix for an insane Â£112.9m. He's obviously incredibly talented, but really only showed it for a little over half a season last season so seems a big gamble. Pretty sure he'll turn out great, but does seem a hell of a lot of money. Worked out for PSG with Mbappe though, who was very much in the same stage of his career when he signed for them.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 27, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			In other news, looks like* Joao Felix *is off to Atletico. Spending that Griezmann money before he's gone, picking up Felix for an insane Â£112.9m. He's obviously incredibly talented, but really only showed it for a little over half a season last season so seems a big gamble. Pretty sure he'll turn out great, but does seem a hell of a lot of money. Worked out for PSG with Mbappe though, who was very much in the same stage of his career when he signed for them.
		
Click to expand...

Not gonna lie, I have absolutely no idea who that is and he's moving for over Â£100mil. Wow.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 27, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Not gonna lie, I have absolutely no idea who that is and he's moving for over Â£100mil. Wow.
		
Click to expand...

You need to play more Football Manager  He's a seriously talented Portuguese attacking midfielder / forward who has already broken into the Portugal team and had a superb half season for Benfica last year (bagged 15 goals in 26 league appearances). He's really, really good and is only 19, but Â£113m is a big risk given he's not even played a full season in Liga Nos.

Benfica are so stacked with talent. Felix, Gedson, Ruben Dias, Florentino Luis, Grimaldo, Cervi, Zivkovic and Svilar  will all likely end up plying their trade in a top European league in the next few years.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 27, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			You need to play more Football Manager  He's a seriously talented Portuguese attacking midfielder / forward who has already broken into the Portugal team and had a superb half season for Benfica last year (bagged 15 goals in 26 league appearances). He's really, really good and is only 19, but Â£113m is a big risk given he's not even played a full season in Liga Nos.

Benfica are so stacked with talent. Felix, Gedson, Ruben Dias, Florentino Luis, Grimaldo, Cervi, Zivkovic and Svilar  will all likely end up plying their trade in a top European league in the next few years.
		
Click to expand...

Ha, I'm still playing CM0102. He was only just born then...


----------



## Marshy77 (Jun 27, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			You need to play more Football Manager  He's a seriously talented Portuguese attacking midfielder / forward who has already broken into the Portugal team and had a superb half season for Benfica last year (bagged 15 goals in 26 league appearances). He's really, really good and is only 19, but Â£113m is a big risk given he's not even played a full season in Liga Nos.

Benfica are so stacked with talent. Felix, Gedson, Ruben Dias, Florentino Luis, Grimaldo, Cervi, Zivkovic and Svilar  will all likely end up plying their trade in a top European league in the next few years.
		
Click to expand...

and if you don't play FM and you've never heard of him and keep updated via social media/sky sports news - sounds like a HUGE risk to me.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 27, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			Its very hard at the minute to determine whether a signing is good value for money, that can only really be decided afterwards. The highly inflated prices we are now seeing just put more pressure on the situation and make a lot of signings look bad.

If Wan-Bissaka goes on to play 10 seasons for Man Utd, then he will go on to be great value for money. Whether he is an international player I think is irrelevant. For me, its the same with all signings. Many people thought Â£75m for VVD was ridiculous, but Liverpool have probably made that transfer fee back in prize money this season and he now looks a bargain.

I'm sure those that were around at the time thought Â£1m for Trevor Francis was ridiculous, whereas you'd struggle to buy a 16 year old who can do 5 keepy uppys for that price now.
		
Click to expand...

Oh donâ€™t get me wrong if Wan Bissaka goes on to play season after season then itâ€™s going to be a good buy - he is a good player donâ€™t get me wrong and he certainly is better than what Utd have currently. 

Maybe these fees are just going to keep going - most thought it was mad when we paid Â£75 mil for VVD and Â£65 for a GK - both turned out to be outstanding buys- I donâ€™t know where it will stop. 


Dan2501 said:









In other news, looks like Joao Felix is off to Atletico. Spending that Griezmann money before he's gone, picking up Felix for an insane Â£112.9m. He's obviously incredibly talented, but really only showed it for a little over half a season last season so seems a big gamble. Pretty sure he'll turn out great, but does seem a hell of a lot of money. Worked out for PSG with Mbappe though, who was very much in the same stage of his career when he signed for them.
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s a lot of money for a player who has a massive reputation on social media and of course on games 

Mbappe at his stage was showing it in the CL. 

Huge risk from Atletico but they rarely get it wrong when they spend big.

Now they just need to sell Greizmann - but itâ€™s a struggle to see where he is going to go


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 27, 2019)

I thought Griezmann to Barca had been in the pipeline for ages.


----------



## SteveW86 (Jun 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Oh donâ€™t get me wrong if Wan Bissaka goes on to play season after season then itâ€™s going to be a good buy - he is a good player donâ€™t get me wrong and he certainly is better than what Utd have currently.

Maybe these fees are just going to keep going - most thought it was mad when we paid Â£75 mil for VVD and Â£65 for a GK - both turned out to be outstanding buys- *I donâ€™t know where it will stop*.


Thatâ€™s a lot of money for a player who has a massive reputation on social media and of course on games

Mbappe at his stage was showing it in the CL.

Huge risk from Atletico but they rarely get it wrong when they spend big.

Now they just need to sell Greizmann - but itâ€™s a struggle to see where he is going to go
		
Click to expand...

It wont stop unless people stop paying for SKY/BT etc. 

The last time the transfer record was broken it more than doubled (Pogba Â£89m v Neymar Â£198m) IIRC, its crazy to think that would happen again when it is broken the next time. Hard to imagine we wont get to Â£500 million


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 27, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			It wont stop unless people stop paying for SKY/BT etc.

The last time the transfer record was broken it more than doubled (Pogba Â£89m v Neymar Â£198m) IIRC, its crazy to think that would happen again when it is broken the next time. Hard to imagine we wont get to Â£500 million
		
Click to expand...

Very true - but i think sky etc get more money from selling the rights abroad


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jun 27, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I thought Griezmann to Barca had been in the pipeline for ages.
		
Click to expand...

Last I read on that was that Barca were waiting until 1st July as for some reason the minimum fee release clause in Greizman's contract drops to just over Â£100 million from that date. I would assume it will be to do with how long he has left on his contract.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 27, 2019)

I will be surprised if Barce go for him if they get Neymar in , unless Dembele is on his way out as well


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 27, 2019)

I suspect that Griezmann already knows where heâ€™ll be playing next season & as done for a while.


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			but itâ€™s a struggle to see where he is going to go
		
Click to expand...

Oh Phil, I think in this one sentence youâ€™ve basically summed yourself up. 

You are the only person in the world right now who thinks the Griezmann move isnâ€™t already set in stone and awaiting the official sign off. 

Iâ€™ll take any bet whatsoever from you that he moves within two weeks. Name your bet. Iâ€™ll take it.


----------



## Slime (Jun 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think you are looking for something that isnâ€™t there - if itâ€™s got to the stage that people are going to react just because someone rates someone else over another player then whatâ€™s the point

*Read the post again and show me where I have been that critical about a player that it justifies the overreaction ?*

I havenâ€™t said Wan Bissaka is a bad player , or Rodri is a bad player , havenâ€™t said that they are bad signings etc etc

I see one player as a better value signing than another and see one player has a better player than another - thatâ€™s all , simple as that. Think itâ€™s just a case of people reacting to who is making the post as opposed to the content of the post.
		
Click to expand...

Read my post again and show me where I've even mentioned a player!
I merely said .................................. oh never mind, it's not that important.
Certainly not important enough to go round and round in circles as has been done too many times in this thread by certain posters.


----------



## irip (Jun 27, 2019)

Hi Guys, I am a signed up member and have been for a few years. I dont post much but often sign in.

I am a liverpool fan but i am embarrassed by Liverpool Phil and his opinions/Trolling.

I have tried putting him on ignore but his ridiculous opinions/baiting meaning he replies to threads all the time make it unreadable.

Is there a way I can start a thread about football where we can have an honest fun debate without his input.

Can you set a thread up where someone is banned from commenting from?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 27, 2019)

irip said:



			Hi Guys, I am a signed up member and have been for a few years. I dont post much but often sign in.

I am a liverpool fan but i am embarrassed by Liverpool Phil and his opinions/Trolling.

I have tried putting him on ignore but his ridiculous opinions/baiting meaning he replies to threads all the time make it unreadable.

Is there a way I can start a thread about football where we can have an honest fun debate without his input.

Can you set a thread up where someone is banned from commenting from?
		
Click to expand...

Welcome - you say such lovely words ðŸ‘


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 27, 2019)

Chortle


----------



## irip (Jun 28, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Welcome - you say such lovely words ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

No need to welcome me i have been a member for a while. 

Maybe you need to remember "Lovely words " when discussing football and other teams and players bought/associated with.

Hopefully then you won't spoil another thread with your bias and inaccuracy and maybe enjoy the wonderful premier league we have.

I wont hold my breath hence why I have asked if we can have a football thread in which you are not allowed to post so the rest of us can enjoy debate, opinions and banter without you spoiling it.

I will start the thread if the mods allow this?


----------



## JamesR (Jun 28, 2019)

irip said:



			Is there a way I can start a thread about football where we can have an honest fun debate without his input.
?
		
Click to expand...

Have you tried joining another forum...a football one perhaps?


----------



## irip (Jun 28, 2019)

JamesR said:



			Have you tried joining another forum...a football one perhaps?
		
Click to expand...

Hello James. I would like to be an active member on this forum. Football and golf threads.
Unfortunately LiverpoolPhil with his ridiculous statements make it very hard in my opinion to have a discussion or debate on this thread (And other threads at times).

I am just seeing if there is interest in a Football thread where LiverpoolPhil is not allowed to post. Or if this is even allowed/wanted


----------



## JamesR (Jun 28, 2019)

irip said:



			Hello James. I would like to be an active member on this forum. Football and golf threads.
Unfortunately LiverpoolPhil with his ridiculous statements make it very hard in my opinion to have a discussion or debate on this thread (And other threads at times).

I am just seeing if there is interest in a Football thread where LiverpoolPhil is not allowed to post. Or if this is even allowed/wanted
		
Click to expand...

You realise youâ€™re posting on a thread he started - seems ironic!?!


----------



## irip (Jun 28, 2019)

JamesR said:



			You realise youâ€™re posting on a thread he started - seems ironic!?!
		
Click to expand...

Yes I do, but it is also a thread that has been going for years. In different forms (increases by year with each season).

Anyone could of restarted the newer version. (Although i will grant you we know who the favourite was) maybe it should be the "official one"


----------



## JamesR (Jun 28, 2019)

You come across like one of those little brats who takes his bat & ball home when he starts to lose ðŸ¥ºðŸ¥ºðŸ˜©ðŸ˜©ðŸ˜«ðŸ˜«ðŸ˜«ðŸ˜­ðŸ˜­ðŸ˜­ðŸ˜­


----------



## irip (Jun 28, 2019)

JamesR said:



			You come across like one of those little brats who takes his bat & ball home when he starts to lose ðŸ¥ºðŸ¥ºðŸ˜©ðŸ˜©ðŸ˜«ðŸ˜«ðŸ˜«ðŸ˜­ðŸ˜­ðŸ˜­ðŸ˜­
		
Click to expand...

What a bizarre response. You obviously can not have a discussion/debate without resorting to childish name calling.


----------



## Captainron (Jun 28, 2019)

irip said:



			Hello James. I would like to be an active member on this forum. Football and golf threads.
Unfortunately LiverpoolPhil with his ridiculous statements make it very hard in my opinion to have a discussion or debate on this thread (And other threads at times).

I am just seeing if there is interest in a Football thread where LiverpoolPhil is not allowed to post. Or if this is even allowed/wanted
		
Click to expand...

I donâ€™t post on there frequently because Iâ€™m not into football but having a thread where one forumer is specifically excluded is a ridiculous notion.


----------



## irip (Jun 28, 2019)

Morning Ron

I can understand that but if you have someone who constantly posts the same/similar drivel is there nothing that can be done about it.?

In my opinion and looking I am not alone in my thoughts it would be nice to be able to debate and have banter without said poster ruining it


----------



## Captainron (Jun 28, 2019)

irip said:



			Morning Ron

I can understand that but if you have someone who constantly posts the same/similar drivel is there nothing that can be done about it.?

In my opinion and looking I am not alone in my thoughts it would be nice to be able to debate and have banter without said poster ruining it
		
Click to expand...

There are plenty of posters who would fall into that bracket on many of the threads here. 
You could just block his posts and enjoy the thread without his input?


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 28, 2019)

#freethephilone

As insanely biased as he is, I wouldnâ€™t want to lose Phil from the thread. Weâ€™re all adults!


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 28, 2019)

Captainron said:



			There are plenty of posters who would fall into that bracket on many of the threads here.
You could just block his posts and enjoy the thread without his input?
		
Click to expand...

Its hard work following a thread with people on ignore, you only lasted 3hrs ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 28, 2019)

irip said:



			What a bizarre response. You obviously can not have a discussion/debate without resorting to childish name calling.
		
Click to expand...

Right now none of your posts have sweet FA to do with the thread so if you want to cry and bleat about someoneâ€™s contribution either put it in another thread or just ignore the thread.

If you have some input into the subject of the Premier League or football in general then crack on and add your opinion but right now you are adding nothing but crying


----------



## irip (Jun 28, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Right now none of your posts have sweet FA to do with the thread so if you want to cry and bleat about someoneâ€™s contribution either put it in another thread or just ignore the thread.

If you have some input into the subject of the Premier League or football in general then crack on and add your opinion but right now you are adding nothing but crying
		
Click to expand...

I am asking if we would like to have a football thread without your input/trolling/drivel. So putting it on the current football thread makes sense.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 28, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48782683

Chelsea making Kovacic a perm signing - if he could find the form he had at Inter he would be a very good player in the Prem.

Couple of other â€œrumoursâ€

Arsenal trying to get Tierney but seems their first offer was miles away from the clubs valuation- quality player though 

Think a lot of the clubs are waiting until Copa and ACN finishes before some of the heavy business starts


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 28, 2019)

irip said:



			I am asking if we would like to have a football thread without your input/trolling/drivel. So putting it on the current football thread makes sense.
		
Click to expand...

I think this has got legs, Start a petition and give the people what they want ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jun 28, 2019)

irip said:



			Morning Ron

I can understand that but if you have someone who constantly posts the same/similar drivel is there nothing that can be done about it.?

In my opinion and looking I am not alone in my thoughts it would be nice to be able to debate and have banter without said poster ruining it
		
Click to expand...

Every forum I have been on has members who think they own it, or are more equal than others. Itâ€™s just life, and something we have to deal with in various possible ways. 
Just be grateful we arenâ€™t being sold wardrobes


----------



## Fish (Jun 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I think this has got legs, Start a petition and give the people what they want ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

Can we have a 2nd go if we donâ€™t get the result we want ðŸ˜œ


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jun 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I think this has got legs, Start a petition and give the people what they want ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

I don't think now is the time for a vote. Maybe we should hold a referendum instead to see what the people want. And the Mods could then spend three years pretending to enact the result.

EDIT - Damn you Fish, you beat me to it.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 28, 2019)

Fish said:



			Can we have a 2nd go if we donâ€™t get the result we want ðŸ˜œ
		
Click to expand...

No, but we can abuse and blame each other  though ðŸ˜


----------



## PieMan (Jun 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			No, but we can abuse and blame each other  though ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Apart from Phil........!! ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 28, 2019)

jobr1850 said:



			A few people post continually utter rubbish just for the sake of posting on here.
Have a look at some of the big post counts.

*Only my opinion but I don't see Phil as one of those who posts just for the sake of it.*

Click to expand...

Get yourself to specsavers immediately ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ‘


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 28, 2019)

Captainron said:



			I donâ€™t post on there frequently because Iâ€™m not into football *but having a thread where one forumer is specifically excluded is a ridiculous notion.*

Click to expand...

It depends on who the person is ðŸ‘


----------



## PieMan (Jun 28, 2019)

Captainron said:



			I donâ€™t post on there frequently because Iâ€™m not into football but having a thread where one forumer is specifically excluded is a ridiculous notion.
		
Click to expand...

Personally I think a football thread that excludes forum members who follow Liverpool, Man City, Spurs, Man Utd and Arsenal would be an excellent idea.......ðŸ˜‰ðŸ¤­ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 28, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Personally I think a football thread that excludes forum members who follow Liverpool, Man City, Spurs, Man Utd and Arsenal would be an excellent idea.......ðŸ˜‰ðŸ¤­ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Surely you mean a football thread that excludes everyone who isnâ€™t a current or ex player or manager?


----------



## PieMan (Jun 28, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Surely you mean a football thread that excludes everyone who isnâ€™t a current or ex player or manager?
		
Click to expand...

Or a football thread that excludes everyone who haven't a scooby what they're talking about.......oh hold on.....ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜€


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 28, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Or a football thread that excludes everyone who haven't a scooby what they're talking about.......oh hold on.....ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜€
		
Click to expand...

That's me out then ðŸ˜–


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 28, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Oh Phil, I think in this one sentence youâ€™ve basically summed yourself up.

You are the only person in the world right now who thinks the Griezmann move isnâ€™t already set in stone and awaiting the official sign off.

Iâ€™ll take any bet whatsoever from you that he moves within two weeks. Name your bet. Iâ€™ll take it.
		
Click to expand...

Just have a feeling that the Neymar situation has added a twist to it all - no doubt still favourite to go to Barce but havenâ€™t discounted it all going a bit different - PSG , Juve and Bayern but all depending on other players moving


----------



## Fish (Jun 28, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Or a football thread that excludes everyone who haven't a scooby what they're talking about.......oh hold on.....ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜€
		
Click to expand...

Just have a quota that anyone who doesnâ€™t go to their teams matches home or away at least 6 times in a season canâ€™t post, or in this case, once ðŸ˜³ðŸ˜œðŸ˜‚


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jun 28, 2019)

jobr1850 said:



			One footie thread causes enough issues, no need for two.
		
Click to expand...

Footballers need 2 legs....why shouldnt our thread?


----------



## Hobbit (Jun 28, 2019)

irip said:



			I am asking if we would like to have a football thread without your input/trolling/drivel. So putting it on the current football thread makes sense.
		
Click to expand...

Just playing Devil's Advocate, surely you're not suggesting that only certain opinions are allowed? That's just too sterile. Debate with him in the thread. Make your point, preferably backed up with reasons, and see what anyone inc Phil comes back with. At times you'll both be right, because its an opinion, and sometimes facts might prove you both wrong.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jun 28, 2019)

I'm surely not the only one thinking it won't be long before a Mod steps in and announces he's "tidying up" this thread with the threat of infractions if it continues.


PieMan said:



			Personally I think a football thread that excludes forum members who follow Liverpool, Man City, Spurs, Man Utd and Arsenal would be an excellent idea.......ðŸ˜‰ðŸ¤­ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

We had one. It was called the "Football League Thread". And let's face it, apart from Chelsea and the 5 you mentioned, all the rest are just making up the numbers in the Premier League and any of them could end up posting in the football league thread within a season or two anyway.


----------



## PieMan (Jun 28, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			That's me out then ðŸ˜–
		
Click to expand...

To be fair Tashy, your club is like mine - apparently only been around for a few years and into existence when we got a bit of cash, started to win trophies and upset the establishment!

So will take a fair bit of time before you actually know anything...........!!! ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜€ðŸ˜€


----------



## anotherdouble (Jun 28, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'm surely not the only one thinking it won't be long before a Mod steps in and announces he's "tidying up" this thread with the threat of infractions if it continues.


We had one. It was called the "Football League Thread". And let's face it, apart from Chelsea and the 5 you mentioned, all the rest are just making up the numbers in the Premier League and any of them could end up posting in the football league thread within a season or two anyway.
		
Click to expand...

Homer and Richart often doðŸ˜‚


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jun 28, 2019)

A potential precedent being set by UEFA ready for their decision on Man City?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48801681


----------



## GreiginFife (Jun 28, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			A potential precedent being set by UEFA ready for their decision on Man City?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48801681

Click to expand...

Pretty sure if Milan had been in the CL next season they wouldn't have been so accepting. 

Man City will, IMO, have more of  reason to push back/fight than of they were missing out on the 2nd rate version.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jun 28, 2019)

Captainron said:



			I donâ€™t post on there frequently because Iâ€™m not into football but having a thread where one forumer is specifically excluded is a ridiculous notion.
		
Click to expand...

No its not, we should have one for the normal people and one for the knobs.


----------



## PieMan (Jun 28, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			No its not, we should have one for the normal people and one for the knobs.
		
Click to expand...

Best post on this thread so far!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 28, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			No its not, we should have one for the normal people and one for the knobs.
		
Click to expand...

Would we each get notification of which category we are in or will the site automatically re-route us as we attempt to view either of the threads?


----------



## Captainron (Jun 28, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Would we each get notification of which category we are in or will the site automatically re-route us as we attempt to view either of the threads? 

Click to expand...

If you have to think about it then you're almost guaranteed to be in the knob camp 

with me.....


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 28, 2019)

Captainron said:



			If you have to think about it then you're almost guaranteed to be in the knob camp 

with me.....
		
Click to expand...

Welcome aboard


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jun 28, 2019)

Captainron said:



			If you have to think about it then you're almost guaranteed to be in the knob camp 

with me.....
		
Click to expand...

Maybe we can set up a support group. KA - Knobs Anonymous.

"Hi, my name is Colch and I'm a knob".


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jun 28, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Would we each get notification of which category we are in or will the site automatically re-route us as we attempt to view either of the threads? 

Click to expand...

Quasi-democratic process, it would soon sort the wheat from the chaff.

Apart from outright language and abuse, WE mod it - if someone else is trolling or going beyond the pale, WE issue temp bans and blackballs. Let the Mods put their feet up.

We all know the ones who overstep the mark, and we could get Blue in Munich back in who gets the right balance, but wont post any more - wish I had his resolve.

I say Quasi, only cos Davey mac looks like Quasimodo...


----------



## hairball_89 (Jun 28, 2019)

Captainron said:



			If you have to think about it then you're almost guaranteed to be in the knob camp 

with me.....
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure "knob camp" is a good idea tbh...


----------



## Slime (Jun 28, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			No its not, we should have one for the normal people and one for the knobs.
		
Click to expand...

Brilliant idea, but who decides who is normal and who is a knob?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 28, 2019)

Zaha says he wants to go to a London club and Arsenal on high alert. Can they really match the asking price? https://www.skysports.com/football/...ter-he-tells-crystal-palace-he-wants-to-leave 

I can't see any other London club including Chelsea bidding


----------



## sam85 (Jun 28, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Zaha says he wants to go to a London club and Arsenal on high alert. Can they really match the asking price? https://www.skysports.com/football/...ter-he-tells-crystal-palace-he-wants-to-leave

I can't see any other London club including Chelsea bidding
		
Click to expand...

Could be tricky for Chelsea to bid with that transfer ban ðŸ¤”


----------



## hairball_89 (Jun 28, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Zaha says he wants to go to a London club and Arsenal on high alert. Can they really match the asking price? https://www.skysports.com/football/...ter-he-tells-crystal-palace-he-wants-to-leave

I can't see any other London club including Chelsea bidding
		
Click to expand...

Spurs, maybe? But yes, I'd agree only Chelsea could really match the asking price. I'm conflicted with Zaha. I think he could be fab, but there's something niggling that says he's found his level as a better player in a middling team. So maybe back to united?!


----------



## JamesR (Jun 28, 2019)

Heâ€™s probably good enough for Fulham now, especially since theyâ€™ve moved to his rightful division ðŸ‘


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 28, 2019)

Zaha is good,but not top draw.
 Â£80m is just stupid.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 28, 2019)

Would take Zaha but not at Â£80mil - would provide good back up to our front three


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 28, 2019)

irip said:



			Hi Guys, I am a signed up member and have been for a few years. I dont post much but often sign in.

I am a liverpool fan but i am embarrassed by Liverpool Phil and his opinions/Trolling.

I have tried putting him on ignore but his ridiculous opinions/baiting meaning he replies to threads all the time make it unreadable.

Is there a way I can start a thread about football where we can have an honest fun debate without his input.

Can you set a thread up where someone is banned from commenting from?
		
Click to expand...

The lads entitled to his opinions.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 28, 2019)

JamesR said:



			Heâ€™s probably good enough for Fulham now, especially since theyâ€™ve moved to his rightful division ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Harsh but fair and a long time before we have PL transfer fees to find. My point about Chelsea is they are the only ones (ban not withstanding) that could afford Â£80m and I don't see him fitting into a Spurs set up. I am not sure about Zaha and while he definitely has the potential has he peaked and would a club like Arsenal really get anything new out of him


----------



## Slime (Jun 28, 2019)

irip said:



			I am a liverpool fan but i am embarrassed by Liverpool Phil and his opinions/Trolling.
I have tried putting him on ignore but his ridiculous opinions/baiting meaning he replies to threads all the time make it unreadable.
*Is there a way I can start a thread about football where we can have an honest fun debate without his input.*
Can you set a thread up where someone is banned from commenting from?
		
Click to expand...

Easy tiger.
Some of his comments and responses are utter testicles, (as can probably be said about me on occasions), but some of what he says is actually well thought out and even interesting. 

Just ignore him if he pisses you of, it's easy enough to do.

Flop accross to the Brexit thread and you'll soon realise that there are one or two others who could really piss off a saint!!
It's just a friendly forum, go with the flow. 
There are far more serious things in life to get stressed about .................................... like my golf!!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 28, 2019)

To m


Liverpoolphil said:



			Would take Zaha but not at Â£80mil - would provide good back up to our front three
		
Click to expand...

To much diving.
He reminds me of Ballotelli always moaning at the ref then some very dodgy challenges himself.
But on form is a good player.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 28, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			A potential precedent being set by UEFA ready for their decision on Man City?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48801681

Click to expand...

Itâ€™s going to be a big call to ban a team from the CL and especially one that is seen as a favourite each season , the impact of getting banned from the EL is prob more a blessing to some and certainly not to much of a financial penalty.

If City do get banned then UEFA are going to need a pretty water tight case


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 28, 2019)

irip said:



			Hello James. I would like to be an active member on this forum. Football and golf threads.
Unfortunately LiverpoolPhil with his ridiculous statements make it very hard in my opinion to have a discussion or debate on this thread (And other threads at times).

I am just seeing if there is interest in a Football thread where LiverpoolPhil is not allowed to post. Or if this is even allowed/wanted
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s not China !
Forums are about differing opinions.
Thinking this has to be a wind up ,if not itâ€™s cyber bullying poor Phil.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 28, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would take Zaha but not at Â£80mil - would provide good back up to our front three
		
Click to expand...

Except Zaha has already said he wants a London club. Have they moved Anfield?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 28, 2019)

Thought this was a great story and although they lost 1-0 last night must have a chance of progressing with a home leg to come 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48342552


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 28, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Itâ€™s going to be a big call to ban a team from the CL and especially one that is seen as a favourite each season , the impact of getting banned from the EL is prob more a blessing to some and certainly not to much of a financial penalty.

If City do get banned then UEFA are going to need a pretty water tight case
		
Click to expand...

I canâ€™t see why they are favourites all the time .
Most pl teams just donâ€™t have a go at them and imo thatâ€™s why they donâ€™t do much in the CL because teams there arenâ€™t scared of them.
Sure Cityâ€™s lawyers have a dodgy dossier on all the previous teams that have broken the rules.
Including UEFA themselves how they can sit in judgement of others is mind boggling.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 28, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			To m

To much diving.
He reminds me of Ballotelli always moaning at the ref then some very dodgy challenges himself.
But on form is a good player.
		
Click to expand...

Heâ€™d fit in well with Mane & Salah then ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 28, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Itâ€™s not China !
Forums are about differing opinions.
Thinking this has to be a wind up ,if not itâ€™s cyber bullying poor Phil.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah poor old Phil ðŸ˜‚


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 28, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			Heâ€™d fit in well with Mane & Salah then ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

That was what I am afraid of ,canâ€™t stand divers.
Think heâ€™s a league above them and in the Suarez camp .


----------



## Papas1982 (Jun 28, 2019)

If 


HomerJSimpson said:



			Except Zaha has already said he wants a London club. Have they moved Anfield?
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool offered Â£80m for him and then the likely 200k wages a transfer like that would command. Do you really think heâ€™d turn them down. 

Phil was simply offering an opinion on how highly he does or doesnâ€™t rate him, but hey. Letâ€™s just have a little dig instead......ðŸ™„


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 28, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			If

Liverpool offered Â£80m for him and then the likely 200k wages a transfer like that would command. Do you really think heâ€™d turn them down.

Phil was simply offering an opinion on how highly he does or doesnâ€™t rate him, but hey. Letâ€™s just have a little dig instead......ðŸ™„
		
Click to expand...

Klopp is not going to pay Â£80 mil for a backup player.
The two we have are better.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jun 28, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Klopp is not going to pay Â£80 mil for a backup player.
The two we have are better.
		
Click to expand...

I didnâ€™t for a second say he would. 

Was simply suggesting that the whole issue of him staying in London would imo be mute if any northern (big) club came calling. 

That being said. You paid 75m for Keita didnâ€™t you? I think heâ€™ll improve, but he only made 25 apps last year.....


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 28, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			If

Liverpool offered Â£80m for him and then the likely 200k wages a transfer like that would command. Do you really think heâ€™d turn them down.

Phil was simply offering an opinion on how highly he does or doesnâ€™t rate him, but hey. Letâ€™s just have a little dig instead......ðŸ™„
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s City and Liverpool offered him a contract he would go - no doubt about it imo , he would more than happy move to a team challenging for the title and CL, and the whole wanting to go to London seems based on

*It is understood the 26-year-old wants to stay in London and play European football.*

Donâ€™t see anything from the player



Papas1982 said:



			I didnâ€™t for a second say he would.

Was simply suggesting that the whole issue of him staying in London would imo be mute if any northern (big) club came calling.

That being said. You paid 75m for Keita didnâ€™t you? I think heâ€™ll improve, but he only made 25 apps last year.....
		
Click to expand...

Keita was around Â£45mil I believe with the normal add ons. 

He had a stop start season last year , little injuries et  - started well , very low middle , finished well until injury at the end 

Itâ€™s a cliche but we have Ox back next season ( like a new signing ) plus a more settled Keita - think will give us a bit more goal threat from the middle


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 28, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Itâ€™s City and Liverpool offered him a contract he would go - no doubt about it imo , he would more than happy move to a team challenging for the title and CL, and the whole wanting to go to London seems based on

*It is understood the 26-year-old wants to stay in London and play European football.*

Donâ€™t see anything from the player



Keita was around Â£45mil I believe with the normal add ons.

He had a stop start season last year , little injuries et  - started well , very low middle , finished well until injury at the end

Itâ€™s a cliche but we have Ox back next season ( like a new signing ) plus a more settled Keita - think will give us a bit more goal threat from the middle
		
Click to expand...

So do you expect Keita to be Kate but with lots of goals next season?


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 28, 2019)

PieMan said:



			To be fair Tashy, your club is like mine - apparently only been around for a few years and into existence when we got a bit of cash, started to win trophies and upset the establishment!

So will take a fair bit of time before you actually know anything...........!!! ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜€ðŸ˜€
		
Click to expand...

Thinking of starting a new football thread, talking about crap football teams. Following City, there is shit loads I would like to get off my chest going back decades.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 28, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			No its not, we should have one for the normal people and one for the knobs.
		
Click to expand...

I feel like I am in a classroom and everyone is stating ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 28, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Maybe we can set up a support group. KA - Knobs Anonymous.

"Hi, my name is Colch and I'm a knob".
		
Click to expand...

 Might be easier if we could nominate who goes in the knob camp.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 28, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I didnâ€™t for a second say he would.

Was simply suggesting that the whole issue of him staying in London would imo be mute if any northern (big) club came calling.

That being said. You paid 75m for Keita didnâ€™t you? I think heâ€™ll improve, but he only made 25 apps last year.....
		
Click to expand...

I never said you did.
Itâ€™s paper talk the player hasnâ€™t made a statement yet.
Kieta did ok but every time he got a bit of a run he got injured.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 28, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Might be easier if we could nominate who goes in the knob camp.
		
Click to expand...

My experience of knobs ( insert carry on gag ) is they donâ€™t know they are one.
The ones who think they are usually are not!

That could have been worded better !


----------



## Fish (Jun 29, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			My experience of knobs ( insert carry on gag ) is they donâ€™t know they are one.
The ones who think they are usually are not!

That could have been worded better !
		
Click to expand...

If it looks like a duck.....


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jun 29, 2019)

Fish said:



			If it looks like a duck.....
		
Click to expand...

It could be a chicken on his way to a fancy dress party.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 29, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			It could be a chicken on his way to a fancy dress party. 

Click to expand...

I think your ducking the issue. ðŸ˜–


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 29, 2019)

Seen Zaha play in person last season and even though Palace were dreadful Zaha looked absolute class. So good at holding the ball up and beating players despite rough tackles on him, we could hardly get the ball off him. He's big, strong, quick, could definitely do a job for one of the big sides and has the potential to score a lot of goals given the right service.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 29, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Seen Zaha play in person last season and even though Palace were dreadful Zaha looked absolute class. So good at holding the ball up and beating players despite rough tackles on him, we could hardly get the ball off him. He's big, strong, quick, could definitely do a job for one of the big sides and has the potential to score a lot of goals given the right service.
		
Click to expand...

He is a good player but Â£80mil?
Think Klopp would be interested but not at that price.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jun 29, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			He is a good player but Â£80mil?
Think Klopp would be interested but not at that price.
		
Click to expand...

I've never been his biggest fan. I think the UTD move came far to soon, but the last 3 seasons have been as good as Sterling was prior to playing under pep. With the right style he could be a superstar. 

In todays market i reckon 80m is justifiable, but not for a team that doesn't need him, such as Liverpool.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 29, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I've never been his biggest fan. I think the UTD move came far to soon, but the last 3 seasons have been as good as Sterling was prior to playing under pep. With the right style he could be a superstar.

In todays market i reckon 80m is justifiable, but not for a team that doesn't need him, such as Liverpool.
		
Click to expand...

If he just stopped the moaning about players trying to stop him ( some nasty ones by the way) but he is not immune to some bad tackles himself.
And stop diving !

Ronaldo was like that at Utd but once he stopped he was a world beater .
Liverpool need options imo and I would not be surprised if Klopp has a little bid.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 29, 2019)

My only concern re Salalh is this. At Palace he is a very big fish in a pond. If he goes to the Arse, Liverpool.  How big a fish would he be. Could he handle sharing the limelight. There's only one way to find out, but for me it's an 80 million concern.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 30, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Seen Zaha play in person last season and even though Palace were dreadful Zaha looked absolute class. So good at holding the ball up and beating players despite rough tackles on him, we could hardly get the ball off him. He's big, strong, quick, could definitely do a job for one of the big sides and has the potential to score a lot of goals given the right service.
		
Click to expand...

That must have been his one good game in three.


----------



## anotherdouble (Jun 30, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			My only concern re Salalh is this. At Palace he is a very big fish in a pond. If he goes to the Arse, Liverpool.  How big a fish would he be. Could he handle sharing the limelight. There's only one way to find out, but for me it's an 80 million concern.
		
Click to expand...

I would lay off your homemade gin or leave the rhyming talk to us down south and continue with talking to your best mate. People are talking about Zaha and you are bringing in Salah.ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 30, 2019)

anotherdouble said:



			I would lay off your homemade gin or leave the rhyming talk to us down south and continue with talking to your best mate. People are talking about Zaha and you are bringing in Salah.ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚got me players names mixed up. But it would still be a concern


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 30, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1145263002150744064
Such a shame


----------



## fundy (Jun 30, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			My only concern re Salalh is this. At Palace he is a very big fish in a pond. If he goes to the Arse, Liverpool.  How big a fish would he be. Could he handle sharing the limelight. There's only one way to find out, but for me it's an 80 million concern.
		
Click to expand...

If we had 80m Id be happy to see how Salah handled being a big fish at Arsenal


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 30, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1145263002150744064
Such a shame
		
Click to expand...

Deserves all he gets heâ€™s a horrible man.
Great footballer though if he cuts all the crap out.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jun 30, 2019)

fundy said:



			If we had 80m Id be happy to see how Salah handled being a big fish at Arsenal 

Click to expand...

Which half of Salah do you want for your Â£80 million?


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jun 30, 2019)

Villa touting McGinn to ManU for Â£50m.
That's an 'unbelievable' improvement in a Scottish player after just one year in the English second tier.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 30, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Which half of Salah do you want for your Â£80 million?
		
Click to expand...

The half that stays on his feet. ðŸ˜ ðŸ‘


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 30, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Which half of Salah do you want for your Â£80 million?
		
Click to expand...

I'd take the bottom half, he's not much good with his head.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 30, 2019)

Just seen a really poor tackle in the U21 final - itâ€™s a clear red , high , nowhere near the ball and studs on the guys shins. Yet they even checked it with VAR !?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 30, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Great footballer though if he cuts all the crap out.
		
Click to expand...

Sadly that ain't ever going to happen


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just seen a really poor tackle in the U21 final - itâ€™s a clear red , high , nowhere near the ball and studs on the guys shins. Yet they even checked it with VAR !?
		
Click to expand...

Cool story bro ðŸ‘ðŸ»


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just seen a really poor tackle in the U21 final - itâ€™s a clear red , high , nowhere near the ball and studs on the guys shins. Yet they even checked it with VAR !?
		
Click to expand...

And VAR was going to fix every poor decision and be the saviour of the beautiful game ðŸ™„


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 30, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sadly that ain't ever going to happen
		
Click to expand...

It's what makes him the footballer he is today. Take the dark arts away from him, hes still a top player. Its cultural.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 1, 2019)

Rumours that Coutinho would be open to a return to Liverpool. Wonder how he would fit in a team with Mane, Firmino and Salah. Happy problem to have.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Rumours that Coutinho would be open to a return to Liverpool. Wonder how he would fit in a team with Mane, Firmino and Salah. Happy problem to have.
		
Click to expand...

In the same way he played with them before he left for Barcelona 18 months ago 

And Iâ€™m sure Coutinho is open to a move but we have moved on from him now and I suspect agent is trying to sell him to anyone who will take him - he made his bed.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 1, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In the same way he played with them before he left for Barcelona 18 months ago

And Iâ€™m sure Coutinho is open to a move but we have moved on from him now and I suspect agent is trying to sell him to anyone who will take him - he made his bed.
		
Click to expand...

I hope his back injury clears up before he comes back ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 1, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Rumours that Coutinho would be open to a return to Liverpool. Wonder how he would fit in a team with Mane, Firmino and Salah. Happy problem to have.
		
Click to expand...

Probably in midfield like he did before. A switch to 4-2-3-1 and you have Salah, Coutinho, Mane behind Firmino.


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 1, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Probably in midfield like he did before. A switch to 4-2-3-1 and you have Salah, Coutinho, Mane behind Firmino.
		
Click to expand...

That's not the Liverpool way though ðŸ˜‚


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 1, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			It's what makes him the footballer he is today. Take the dark arts away from him, hes still a top player. Its cultural.
		
Click to expand...

It is if heâ€™s playing for you heâ€™s a genius, but against you heâ€™s a cheating ,biting little toe rag.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 1, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Probably in midfield like he did before. A switch to 4-2-3-1 and you have Salah, Coutinho, Mane behind Firmino.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s rare for Firmino to be in front of them though.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 1, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1145604698327715840
Dear oh dear, Puma are the absolute worst.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 1, 2019)

Orikoru said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1145604698327715840
Dear oh dear, Puma are the absolute worst. 

Click to expand...

I can assure tou that the kits Puma have released predominantly are going down well with the fans. However that really don't say a lot as we have had some shockers over the years ðŸ˜–


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 1, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			I can assure tou that the kits Puma have released predominantly are going down well with the fans. However that really don't say a lot as we have had some shockers over the years ðŸ˜–
		
Click to expand...

Even the away kit with the yellow, blue AND pink trim?? It's a total disaster.

Purple trim on a sky blue top??


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 1, 2019)

Rafa chases money to his next job.


----------



## fundy (Jul 1, 2019)

Good to see Arsenals tactics arent changing. Palace have asked for 80m for Zaha, Arsenal have got out their 40m bid 

Another window of being linked with 100s of players, bidding way below their market value and getting a couple of kids on a free


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Rafa chases money to his next job.
		
Click to expand...

Do you blame him ? He goes to a club that have someone who doesnâ€™t mind spending after working miracles for 3 years for an owner who doesnâ€™t spend a penny



fundy said:



			Good to see Arsenals tactics arent changing. Palace have asked for 80m for Zaha, Arsenal have got out their 40m bid 

Another window of being linked with 100s of players, bidding way below their market value and getting a couple of kids on a free
		
Click to expand...

Everyone keeps saying they have a budget of Â£45mil - but some talk of selling Aubemyang to help fund moves for Zaha and Tierney. ?


----------



## fundy (Jul 1, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you blame him ? He goes to a club that have someone who doesnâ€™t mind spending after working miracles for 3 years for an owner who doesnâ€™t spend a penny



Everyone keeps saying they have a budget of Â£45mil - but some talk of selling Aubemyang to help fund moves for Zaha and Tierney. ?
		
Click to expand...


Selling Aubameyang to buy Zaha would be utter car crash and not go down well! More chance they try and get decent money for Torreira back to Italy with him reportedly not that happy in England (and having an Italian other half) albeit that wont be popular either (we only waited 10+ years for someone like him).

Bigger issue is they cant get rid of the deadweights that are on ridiculous money, Ozil, Mhiki, Mustafi etc to free up room in the wage budget


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2019)

Just seen this tweet 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1145650896774283265
Class guy 

Juventus have signed Rabiot - thatâ€™s a heck of a midfield they are building 

And Rashford has signed a massive new big wage contract expecting him to get Â£250k a week ! Heck of wage for him


----------



## Slime (Jul 1, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Rashford has signed a massive new big wage contract expecting him to get Â£250k a week !* *Heck of wage for him*

Click to expand...

That depends which report you read.
I'm reading Â£200k a week! Heck of a player for that wage.


----------



## Swingalot (Jul 1, 2019)

Some of the crap on here about Zaha, comedy gold. 

Lots of MOTD stereotypical comments being spouted. 

Watched every minute of each premier league game last season that Zaha played in. Apart from Hazard and the kid from Bournemouth on the left (Fraser? ) in those games no one else has come near Wilf for close control, dribbling and skill. 

I just hope he stays, itâ€™s been brilliant watching him.


----------



## Fish (Jul 2, 2019)

Swingalot said:



			Some of the crap on here about Zaha, comedy gold.

Lots of MOTD stereotypical comments being spouted.

Watched every minute of each premier league game last season that Zaha played in. Apart from Hazard and the kid from Bournemouth on the left (Fraser? ) in those games no one else has come near Wilf for close control, dribbling and skill.

I just hope he stays, itâ€™s been brilliant watching him.
		
Click to expand...

This is typical though of the armchair supporters watching highlights or televised matches though Rupert, I watch players off the ball as much as on it, which the armchair critic will never see, thatâ€™s why I was always over critical of Morata & Higuain, both lazy, both demanded the ball to their feet and sulked, yes they got the odd great or key goals in odd games, but on overall performances, both very poor strikers. 
Iâ€™ve rated Zaha for some time and Iâ€™d have him at the Bridge.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 2, 2019)

Slime said:



			That depends which report you read.
I'm reading Â£200k a week! Heck of a player for that wage.
		
Click to expand...

The new contract appears to make him the 6th best paid player in the Prem behind - Pogba, Sanchez , Ozil , KBD and Martial so he is getting paid more than 

Salah , Kane , Mane , Son , Lacazette , Firmino , Sterling , Aguero, Aubemeyang - thatâ€™s a good bunch of players who have proved themselves 

Is it a case of giving big wages to counter the lack of CL football or trying to stop them leaving ? Itâ€™s a lot of money for someone who still needs to prove himself and realise the potential- hell of a pay rise for him. 


Swingalot said:



			Some of the crap on here about Zaha, comedy gold.

Lots of MOTD stereotypical comments being spouted.

Watched every minute of each premier league game last season that Zaha played in. Apart from Hazard and the kid from Bournemouth on the left (Fraser? ) in those games no one else has come near Wilf for close control, dribbling and skill.

I just hope he stays, itâ€™s been brilliant watching him.
		
Click to expand...

For Zaha I guess itâ€™s all about the next step up and how he goes at a bigger club - for teams like City and Liverpool he would be a back up , Spurs would be ideal for him but I guess they donâ€™t seem interested, Chelsea have the ban , not sure if Utd would want him so it prob leaves Arsenal but I donâ€™t think they will match the asking price 

It might be worth looking abroad but to find out how good he really is then a step is needed - in the games I have seen him he has either been very dangerous and given the right back a hell of a game ( at Palace )  or he just wasnâ€™t in the game ( at Anfield )


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 2, 2019)

fundy said:



			Good to see Arsenals tactics arent changing. Palace have asked for 80m for Zaha, Arsenal have got out their 40m bid 

Another window of being linked with 100s of players, bidding way below their market value and getting a couple of kids on a free
		
Click to expand...

Its a derogatory offer and typical Arsenal I'm afraid. Unless they can sell to bolster funds I can't see Zaha fulfilling his "boyhood dream" to play for Arsenal. I think he'd be a good fit and really can't see another London club coming in to meet his desire to stay in the capital. If he goes further north to City etc will he get game time? Probably not. I wish Arsenal will look at their record in recent windows and see where these type of bids gets them but as you say, look forward to some kids coming in on the cheap on the last day of the window


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 2, 2019)

I see Salah and his Egyptian colleagues have gone behind the pale and have used their influence to bring someone accused of sexual harassment back into the Egyptian squad.

â€œI know no means no but everyone deserves a second chanceâ€ or something similar is the quote.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 2, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			I see Salah and his Egyptian colleagues have gone behind the pale and have used their influence to bring someone accused of sexual harassment back into the Egyptian squad.

â€œI know no means no but everyone deserves a second chanceâ€ or something similar is the quote.
		
Click to expand...

Has he been found guilty of sexual harrassment or is he just accused still at this point?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 2, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			I see Salah and his Egyptian colleagues have gone behind the pale and have used their influence to bring someone accused of sexual harassment back into the Egyptian squad.

â€œI know no means no but everyone deserves a second chanceâ€ or something similar is the quote.
		
Click to expand...

Sir Cliff Richard might be able to explain the difference between accused and charged ,both mean he is innocent until convicted.
Itâ€™s a moral argument but legally black and white.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 2, 2019)

I know this isn't football when we look at the daft contracts given out, the Winston Bogard's etc, this is perhaps the best of them all https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/baseball/48831510


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 2, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I know this isn't football when we look at the daft contracts given out, the Winston Bogard's etc, this is perhaps the best of them all https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/baseball/48831510

Click to expand...

They really didn't explain that well, that didn't make any sense to me at all. How on earth did they end up agreeing to pay a man until his 70s?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 2, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			They really didn't explain that well, that didn't make any sense to me at all. How on earth did they end up agreeing to pay a man until his 70s?
		
Click to expand...

The Mets released Bonilla, once one of Major League Baseballâ€™s highest paid players, after the 1999 season. Rather than paying him the $5.9 million the team owed him in 2000, they agreed to pay him later, and attach an 8 percent annual interest to the sum, according to contract details reported by ESPN.

Payments started in 2011, and to date Bonilla has collected $8.35 million, the website says. By the time the final payment is made in 18 years, Bonilla will have parlayed that initial $5.9 million into a total of $29.8 million.

Another site mentioned that one of the Mets owners invested heavily with Bernie Madoff. He worked out the returns from Bernie dwarfed the payments to Bonilla. Unfortunately Madoff was scamming everyone so it was a disaster. It was incompetence on a major scale


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 2, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



The Mets released Bonilla, once one of Major League Baseballâ€™s highest paid players, after the 1999 season. Rather than paying him the $5.9 million the team owed him in 2000, they agreed to pay him later, and attach an 8 percent annual interest to the sum, according to contract details reported by ESPN.

Payments started in 2011, and to date Bonilla has collected $8.35 million, the website says. By the time the final payment is made in 18 years, Bonilla will have parlayed that initial $5.9 million into a total of $29.8 million.

Another site mentioned that one of the Mets owners invested heavily with Bernie Madoff. He worked out the returns from Bernie dwarfed the payments to Bonilla. Unfortunately Madoff was scamming everyone so it was a disaster. It was incompetence on a major scale 

Click to expand...

So they just massively underestimated inflation then? That seems like such a basic error for a major sports team to make.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 2, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			So they just massively underestimated inflation then? That seems like such a basic error for a major sports team to make. 

Click to expand...

It's a shocker isn't it? Not just inflation but the length of period to pay off! Scary bad.

The contract lengths in baseball are plain scary, they get top players on 10yr deals. How can you know if they will keep form for 10 yrs? Pathetic Shark is the expert in this field but I don't think he comes on the football thread too often.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 2, 2019)

Apparently Ndombele has been having an actual proper medical this morning with Spurs. I'm surprised our medical staff remember the procedure. Couple of minutes on the treadmill, "yeah he looks fine".

Leicester have turned down Â£70mil from Utd for Maguire, so he won't be moving in this window. Since anyway who offers more than that for him would be clinically insane.


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 2, 2019)

Leicester should be biting their hands off. Could replace him for less than half that.


----------



## hairball_89 (Jul 2, 2019)

I suspect there's a "let us sort out your replacement, then you're good to go" type arrangement. To one of the Manchester clubs. Clearly the better choice is City, of the two, but he surely isn't worth VVD money? I'm biased, yes. But he's definitely not that good. Is he?!


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 2, 2019)

hairball_89 said:



			I suspect there's a "let us sort out your replacement, then you're good to go" type arrangement. To one of the Manchester clubs. Clearly the better choice is City, of the two, but he surely isn't worth VVD money? I'm biased, yes. But he's definitely not that good. Is he?!
		
Click to expand...

No, clearly not. But being English adds 10-20 mil because of the stupid homegrown rule.

Funny thing is, an excellent defender in Kostas Manolas also moved this week, from Roma to Napoli, for only Â£32mil and nobody in England noticed apparently. He would have vastly improved the United team! He's a better defender than Maguire.


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 2, 2019)

hairball_89 said:



			I suspect there's a "let us sort out your replacement, then you're good to go" type arrangement. To one of the Manchester clubs. Clearly the better choice is City, of the two, but he surely isn't worth VVD money? I'm biased, yes. But he's definitely not that good. Is he?!
		
Click to expand...

Well he's certainly better than what United have at the minute and quite possibly City as well ðŸ˜


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 2, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			Well he's certainly better than what United have at the minute and quite possibly City as well ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

In Utd's case definitely. But he's still not worth what they're asking for, they can improve on their squad for less elsewhere. As for City, Maguire is better than Stones but not Laporte. Otamendi I'm not sure. But this is the Premier League winners, I think they can attract a better centre back than Maguire.


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 2, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			In Utd's case definitely. But he's still not worth what they're asking for, they can improve on their squad for less elsewhere. As for City, Maguire is better than Stones but not Laporte. Otamendi I'm not sure. But this is the Premier League winners, I think they can attract a better centre back than Maguire.
		
Click to expand...

Fair point re the price, but when the likes of Newcastle pay 30 million for an average payer no one has ever heard of last season, then 70 mil for Maguire seems a bargain lol. I think hes a good player FWIW, a reliable performer from what I've seen on tv although granted you need to go to games to really have a proper opinion ðŸ˜‚


----------



## hairball_89 (Jul 2, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			In Utd's case definitely. But he's still not worth what they're asking for, they can improve on their squad for less elsewhere. As for City, Maguire is better than Stones but not Laporte. Otamendi I'm not sure. But this is the Premier League winners, I think they can attract a better centre back than Maguire.
		
Click to expand...

Indeed. City have the little problem of home grown players and squad registration, too. Which inevitably drives prices up as every club knows they need home grown (although not necessarily British) players. The fact that City have not foreseen the hole that Kompany would leave and at least had an eye on bringing someone through seems bizarre to me. But getting talent to come and hang around while your stars get old is easier said than done! Certainly not without looking like chelsea and sending loans to half of europe!


----------



## fundy (Jul 2, 2019)

Tfr policy coming together as we sign our first 18 year old of the window. Lets hope hes a good one

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48843718


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 2, 2019)

Spurs have actually done it! We've signed a player! Much rejoicing! Just need a new right back and a forward now..


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 2, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sir Cliff Richard might be able to explain the difference between accused and charged ,both mean he is innocent until convicted.
Itâ€™s a moral argument but legally black and white.
		
Click to expand...

He admitted it and apologised for it!

Salahâ€™s statement is disgusting.


----------



## IanM (Jul 2, 2019)

I wonder what would happen if you turn up at the Arsenal ticket office and offer Â£40 for a Â£100 ticket?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 2, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			I see Salah and his Egyptian colleagues have gone behind the pale and have used their influence to bring someone accused of sexual harassment back into the Egyptian squad.

â€œI know no means no but everyone deserves a second chanceâ€ or something similar is the quote.
		
Click to expand...

You quite clearly say accused


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 2, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			You quite clearly say accused
		
Click to expand...

And then I quite clearly specified further. Weird that you wouldnâ€™t look into the incident yourself...?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 2, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			And then I quite clearly specified further. Weird that you wouldnâ€™t look into the incident yourself...?
		
Click to expand...

I could say the same to you .
You may have not said accused then instead of admitted.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 2, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I could say the same to you .
You may have not said accused then instead of admitted.
		
Click to expand...

At any point are you going to admit that the important part here is that Salah has forced the hand of the Egyptian FA with an attitude of â€œno means no but give him a second chanceâ€? Thatâ€™s clearly the issue here.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 2, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			At any point are you going to admit that the important part here is that Salah has forced the hand of the Egyptian FA with an attitude of â€œno means no but give him a second chanceâ€? Thatâ€™s clearly the issue here.
		
Click to expand...

I couldnâ€™t give a toss what Egypt do .
Bit if heâ€™s admitted it he should be in jail.
But do think an accused man which is what I commented on is innocent until proven guilty or admits it.


----------



## Swingalot (Jul 2, 2019)

[QUOTE="Liverpoolphil, post: 2016503, member: 15344"It might be worth looking abroad but to find out how good he really is then a step is needed - in the games I have seen him he has either been very dangerous and given the right back a hell of a game ( at Palace )  or he just wasnâ€™t in the game ( at Anfield )[/QUOTE]

Agree, but in Zahas defence, he is playing for Palace. Put him in a top top side with danger and threat across the team (City or Liverpool for instance) and i believe without 2 or 3 players man marking him every time he receives the ball he would kick on. Hope I never see it and he stays. Word is he may end up in Germany, not sure what their Croydon equivalent is......


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 2, 2019)

Kellfire said:



*At any point are you going to admit that the important part here is that Salah has forced the hand of the Egyptian FA with an attitude of â€œno means no but give him a second chanceâ€?* Thatâ€™s clearly the issue here.
		
Click to expand...

How can he admit to that? It wasnt just Salah who forced the hand of the Egyptian FA, alledgedly it was several players. 

I wouldnt be surprised if powers above Mo Salah have had a bigger say in this. 

For clarity, i am not defending the actions of Warda.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 2, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			He admitted it and apologised for it!

Salahâ€™s statement is disgusting.
		
Click to expand...

He has apologised to his own family not to the people who have accused him. According to the Gaurdian newspaper 
But I donâ€™t belive everything I read in the papers.

If the Egyptian FA are influenced by one player they are piss poor


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 2, 2019)

Swingalot said:



			[QUOTE="Liverpoolphil, post: 2016503, member: 15344"It might be worth looking abroad but to find out how good he really is then a step is needed - in the games I have seen him he has either been very dangerous and given the right back a hell of a game ( at Palace )  or he just wasnâ€™t in the game ( at Anfield )
		
Click to expand...

Agree, but in Zahas defence, he is playing for Palace. Put him in a top top side with danger and threat across the team (City or Liverpool for instance) and i believe without 2 or 3 players man marking him every time he receives the ball he would kick on. Hope I never see it and he stays. Word is he may end up in Germany, not sure what their Croydon equivalent is......[/QUOTE]
Is London in Germany now?


----------



## Swingalot (Jul 2, 2019)

.[/QUOTE]Is London in Germany now?[/QUOTE]

Is Â£40m the same as Â£80m?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 2, 2019)

Swingalot said:



			.
		
Click to expand...

Is London in Germany now?[/QUOTE]

Is Â£40m the same as Â£80m?[/QUOTE]
Clearly not but he wants to stay in London allegedly.
Heâ€™s a commodity and will go to the highest bidder.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 3, 2019)

I wonder what Zaha will do when his London only option runs out and Arsenal don't meet the asking price. Pretty sure Palace won't drop the price or accept the player and money deal being bandied about and why would they on their prize commodity. Chances are when his agent sees a lucrative payday slipping away Zaha will swallow his London for me principles and go for the best deal out there at a new club and doubt it'll be anywhere near the capital


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 3, 2019)

Since Palace have just sold Wan Bissaka for Â£50 mill, itâ€™s unlikey they would even dream of letting Zaha for Â£40mill.
They donâ€™t want to let him go as well, and arenâ€™t as desperate for the money as in the past.
I hope Palace stick to their guns, and even refuse to deal with Arsenal full stop on this.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 3, 2019)

I'm not sure Zaha is good enough to make it in a top six side. I think he enjoys being a key player in a small team, where he doesn't have to track back and can just be the main outlet. In the top six sides you either have to put a shift in or be good enough to get away with it (Hazard level). Even if Arsenal somehow pull their finger out with a sensible bid (they won't) I don't think he'll be a roaring success there or anything.


----------



## Jensen (Jul 3, 2019)

Swingalot...the German equivalent of Croydon will be an area high with knife crime ðŸ˜œ


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 3, 2019)

Apparently City have paid Â£62m for a midfielder from Atletico Madrid, perhaps surprisingly that is a record for them. For those that follow Spanish football educate me as to the skills of this bloke, why have City bought him, where will he fit? (no google, copy / paste cop outs )


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 3, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Apparently City have paid Â£62m for a midfielder from Atletico Madrid, perhaps surprisingly that is a record for them. For those that follow Spanish football educate me as to the skills of this bloke, why have City bought him, where will he fit? (no google, copy / paste cop outs )
		
Click to expand...

Care to give us a name?


----------



## GreiginFife (Jul 3, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Care to give us a name? 

Click to expand...

Rodri. Odd one for me. 1 season at Atleti (ok he was a junior there but didnt rip any trees up) after a reasonable time at Villarreal without doing anything spectacular in my book. 
Not sure what Pep sees in him TBH as he had a decent but not outstanding season at Atleti. They aren't going to say no to 70+ mil from someone they signed 12 months ago for about Â£25m IIRC .
Solid enough player but not sure Â£70m solid.

And I watch a lot of La Liga, more so than English and Scottish combined.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 3, 2019)

GreiginFife said:



			Rodri. Odd one for me. 1 season at Atleti (ok he was a junior there but didnt rip any trees up) after a reasonable time at Villarreal without doing anything spectacular in my book.
Not sure what Pep sees in him TBH as he had a decent but not outstanding season at Atleti. They aren't going to say no to 70+ mil from someone they signed 12 months ago for about Â£25m IIRC .
Solid enough player but not sure Â£70m solid.

And I watch a lot of La Liga, more so than English and Scottish combined.
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough, I know nothing about Rodri. Well, I know that he got a team of the season card in Fifa Ultimate Team, so he must have done well. His good attributes on there are mostly defensive. City obviously need a successor/alternative to Fernandinho as their highest priority I would say, so in that respect it makes sense.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 3, 2019)

Apologies, muppetry from me. Yes, Rodri.

Perez to Leicester for Â£30m . Leicester have lost the plot there. An okay player but never Â£30m. Bought for Â£1.5m, classic Ashley and the model he wants.


----------



## GreiginFife (Jul 3, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Fair enough, I know nothing about Rodri. Well, I know that he got a team of the season card in Fifa Ultimate Team, so he must have done well. His good attributes on there are mostly defensive. City obviously need a successor/alternative to Fernandinho as their highest priority I would say, so in that respect it makes sense.
		
Click to expand...

Again, for me its a bit of an odd one, whilst I agree he favours the holding role and this could be Pep's rationale, I would say he needed another season at Atleti without that very well drilled and tight defence behind him to see how effective he is. 
He might do great stuff in England but equally it might be a season (or two) too soon for him.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 3, 2019)

GreiginFife said:



			Again, for me its a bit of an odd one, whilst I agree he favours the holding role and this could be Pep's rationale, I would say he needed another season at Atleti without that very well drilled and tight defence behind him to see how effective he is.
He might do great stuff in England but equally it might be a season (or two) too soon for him.
		
Click to expand...

Presumably he will be eased in, not necessarily an immediate starter. From what I have now read he is the replacement for Fernandinho but he may have another year or two still. It could be smart, allowing him a season to adjust without the world being expected immediately. City have that financial luxury.


----------



## GreiginFife (Jul 3, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Presumably he will be eased in, not necessarily an immediate starter. From what I have now read he is the replacement for Fernandinho but he may have another year or two still. It could be smart, allowing him a season to adjust without the world being expected immediately. City have that financial luxury.
		
Click to expand...

In theory you could be right but he could end up cutting a frustrated figure (a la Gabriel Jesus - Aguero's replacement 2 years ago). As I say, I watch a lot of La Liga and whilst I thought he was a good player, for me not quite Fernandinho territory because he had a very mean defence behind him that took a lot of the pressure off of him. City's defence is no where near Atleti's defence of the last few years. 
You know, as well as me, that players don't tend to get a lot of time to adjust to "the greatest league in the world", sure they talk about giving time but in reality it rarely happens. 

He may well be the greatest thing since sliced Aguero but personally remain unconvinced as I haven't seen him without a defence like Atleti's behind him.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 5, 2019)

https://www.football365.com/news/west-ham-to-accept-terrible-deal-for-troublesome-arnautovic 

One for @pauljames87 - happy to get rid at this point? When he was up for it he was such a handful, but his attitude has never been right in his career I don't think. Was compared to Zlatan early in his career, but doesn't have even 10% of the determination I don't think.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



https://www.football365.com/news/west-ham-to-accept-terrible-deal-for-troublesome-arnautovic

One for @pauljames87 - happy to get rid at this point? When he was up for it he was such a handful, but his attitude has never been right in his career I don't think. Was compared to Zlatan early in his career, but doesn't have even 10% of the determination I don't think.
		
Click to expand...

I will sound delusional but happy with that.

Heâ€™s clearly a lot of trouble, big wages aswell. If we can recoup majority of our fee for him (he isnâ€™t getting younger) and we use that money to finalise maxi Gomez and get Rondon in as back up. Keep HernÃ¡ndez also and suddenly our striking options look very healthy.

Gomez
HernÃ¡ndez 
Rondon 
Antonio
Yarmenlko

Last 2 are fill ins if needed

Thatâ€™s not awful


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 5, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			I will sound delusional but happy with that.

Heâ€™s clearly a lot of trouble, big wages aswell. If we can recoup majority of our fee for him (he isnâ€™t getting younger) and we use that money to finalise maxi Gomez and get Rondon in as back up. Keep HernÃ¡ndez also and suddenly our striking options look very healthy.

Gomez
HernÃ¡ndez
Rondon
Antonio
Yarmenlko

Last 2 are fill ins if needed

Thatâ€™s not awful
		
Click to expand...

Don't know anything about Maxi Gomez. Rondon is a good a solid striker though, he could give you what Carroll might have done had he not been permanently injured. I thought Hernandez wanted out though? 

Don't forget Jordan Hugill... 

In other news I've just seen your new kit and it looks pretty rank.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Don't know anything about Maxi Gomez. Rondon is a good a solid striker though, he could give you what Carroll might have done had he not been permanently injured. I thought Hernandez wanted out though?

Don't forget Jordan Hugill... 

In other news I've just seen your new kit and it looks pretty rank. 

Click to expand...

Is it the new kit or the training kit you saw? 

HernÃ¡ndez said he will give his all either way and right now he is happy to stay and see out his contract as I think heâ€™s on a Bosman next summer 

No-one will match his wages happy 

I like the way he gives all on pitch either way

I just read Gomez wants to stay in Spain. Fair enough if he does 

We will get someone in sure


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 5, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Is it the new kit or the training kit you saw?

HernÃ¡ndez said he will give his all either way and right now he is happy to stay and see out his contract as I think heâ€™s on a Bosman next summer

No-one will match his wages happy

I like the way he gives all on pitch either way

I just read Gomez wants to stay in Spain. Fair enough if he does

We will get someone in sure
		
Click to expand...

Defo the new kit. https://www.radiotimes.com/news/spo...-west-ham-shirt-home-away-third-kit-unveiled/ 

Not a fan. Looks more like a Scunthorpe or Burnley kit. The white away kit is tidy enough though.

Saw a leaked image of our away kit this morning and it looks _very_ nice.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Defo the new kit. https://www.radiotimes.com/news/spo...-west-ham-shirt-home-away-third-kit-unveiled/

Not a fan. Looks more like a Scunthorpe or Burnley kit. The white away kit is tidy enough though.

Saw a leaked image of our away kit this morning and it looks _very_ nice.
		
Click to expand...

Yup, that is ugly. A good analogy with those two clubs, not what West Ham aspire to though 

 Saying that the Everton kit was released yesterday and I think it is definitely one of our worst for many years. The problem is how do you reinvent a standard look every 2 years.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 5, 2019)

I like the new Everton kit


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 5, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Yup, that is ugly. A good analogy with those two clubs, not what West Ham aspire to though 

Saying that the Everton kit was released yesterday and I think it is definitely one of our worst for many years. The problem is how do you reinvent a standard look every 2 years.
		
Click to expand...

Just had a look, yeah not a fan of that weird criss cross pattern. It actually looks Scottish!  Both Everton and West Ham's are made by Umbro so they're obviously missing the mark with their designs this year! Happy we have Nike doing ours these days, they're normally nice and tidy. But as you say, always difficult to reinvent a kit that just has to be plain white - last year's home with the fade into dark blue at the bottom was a horrible mis-step.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 5, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			I like the new Everton kit 

Click to expand...



Are you sure you were looking at this years one?


----------



## Wolf (Jul 5, 2019)

I think the Everton kit is OK to be fair. New West Ham one though that's not pretty.. 

But our new Kit I am liking a proper throwback to out Adidas kits of old.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1147923757866061824
Didnâ€™t realise that pre season matches started already - good to see Everton helping towards records being broken ðŸ‘


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 7, 2019)

26m for Tyrone Mings from Bournemouth to Villa. Had to check the date. Absolute madness.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 7, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			26m for Tyrone Mings from Bournemouth to Villa. Had to check the date. Absolute madness.
		
Click to expand...

Indeed. Definitely not worth that money and hardly pulled up trees in his Bournemouth career


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 7, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Indeed. Definitely not worth that money and hardly pulled up trees in his Bournemouth career
		
Click to expand...

He was instrumental in villas promotion by all accounts.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			26m for Tyrone Mings from Bournemouth to Villa. Had to check the date. Absolute madness.
		
Click to expand...

I guess he was that good for them last season they see it as worth the money


----------



## richart (Jul 7, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I guess he was that good for them last season they see it as worth the money
		
Click to expand...

Not particularly light on his feet though.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 7, 2019)

GreiginFife said:



			In theory you could be right but he could end up cutting a frustrated figure (a la Gabriel Jesus - Aguero's replacement 2 years ago). As I say, I watch a lot of La Liga and whilst I thought he was a good player, for me not quite Fernandinho territory because he had a very mean defence behind him that took a lot of the pressure off of him. City's defence is no where near Atleti's defence of the last few years.
You know, as well as me, that players don't tend to get a lot of time to adjust to "the greatest league in the world", sure they talk about giving time but in reality it rarely happens.

He may well be the greatest thing since sliced Aguero but personally remain unconvinced as I haven't seen him *without a defence like Atleti's behind him.*

Click to expand...



Hmm seeing as Atleti's defence let six more goals in than Citys last year, am not to sure that last sentance is accurate. There was a piece i read when City bought him re his stats. EG, passing, tackling and where they rated in the Spanish league. They were impressive. He could be the " disruptive" cog that helps City to play. Plus he brings some much needed height to the team. That aside, I know sod all about him.
Re Atletico, I read a piece a couple of months ago re that team being ripped to bits around about now, due to age and players leaving. Gonna be an intersting few months for Atletico and Simeone.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			He was instrumental in villas promotion by all accounts.
		
Click to expand...

I know a Villa fan at the club so I'll get his opinion but looking at his stats, 4 yellows and a red not a great disciplinary record. https://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=69420&season_id=151 

I didn't watch too many Villa games in the run in on Sky and think he was outstanding but clearly they see something about him. Will be interesting to see how he performs for Villa especially if they struggle. He strikes me (and I may be wrong) as one of those that may go missing if its not going his way and not seeing much of the ball


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 8, 2019)

Mings is 26 and has played just 17 Premier League games. That fee is a joke. Best known for stamping on Ibrahimovic.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 8, 2019)

He was really good for Ipswich, looked to have so much potential when he was there. Career just sort of stalled at Bournemouth, so good to see him back on track at Villa. They obviously rate him highly given the fee, I think he'll go on to be a very solid PL LB.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2019)

Listening to the guys on talksport this morning and he was superb last year under Terrys wing and has come on leaps and bounds so Â£20 mil for a 26 year old isnâ€™t that bad when comparing to Â£80 mil for Maguire or Â£100mil for Zaha


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Listening to the guys on talksport this morning and *he was superb last year under Terrys wing and has come on leaps and bounds* so Â£20 mil for a 26 year old isnâ€™t that bad when comparing to Â£80 mil for Maguire or Â£100mil for Zaha
		
Click to expand...

Quite a judgement to make on only 15 league games.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Quite a judgement to make on only 15 league games.
		
Click to expand...

What do you expect when he only went there in January ðŸ™„


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Listening to the guys on talksport this morning and he was superb last year under Terrys wing and has come on leaps and bounds so Â£20 mil for a 26 year old isnâ€™t that bad when comparing to Â£80 mil for Maguire or Â£100mil for Zaha
		
Click to expand...

Come on leaps and bounds playing fifteen games in a weaker league.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 8, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Come on leaps and bounds playing fifteen games in a weaker league.
		
Click to expand...

I already tried pointing that out and he didn't understand.


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 8, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Come on leaps and bounds playing fifteen games in a weaker league.
		
Click to expand...

Failed in the Prem already and had to drop down a league to get a game ðŸ˜‚
Give me Maguire for 80m every time lol.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 8, 2019)

Money just has no meaning in football anymore, especially for English players. Seen this morning Newcastle are rejecting Â£30mil for that Longstaff lad. He's played even less Premier League games than Mings. Game's gone.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			Failed in the Prem already and had to drop down a league to get a game ðŸ˜‚
Give me Maguire for 80m every time lol.
		
Click to expand...

Definitely. No doubt Mings has potential but has never really broken through at Bournemouth in the PL and did ok at Villa. I would rather have a Maguire every time especially with the Mings disciplinary record on top which indicates he has a hot head, something a good PL striker will try and expose. On the plus side in the bid to return to the PL Fulham have signed Mitrovic on a five year deal which is good news. I thought he might go to a PL side but he'll be massive again for us. Looks like Liverpool are going to get our next rising star Harvey Elliott. Rumours have it he's well ahead of Sessignon at a similar stage


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 8, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Definitely. No doubt Mings has potential but has never really broken through at Bournemouth in the PL and did ok at Villa.* I would rather have a Maguire every time *especially with the Mings disciplinary record on top which indicates he has a hot head, something a good PL striker will try and expose. On the plus side in the bid to return to the PL Fulham have signed Mitrovic on a five year deal which is good news. I thought he might go to a PL side but he'll be massive again for us. Looks like Liverpool are going to get our next rising star Harvey Elliott. Rumours have it he's well ahead of Sessignon at a similar stage
		
Click to expand...

That's obvious, but Villa aren't going to get him are they.....
Â£20m for an english cb is chicken feed these days.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			That's obvious, but Villa aren't going to get him are they.....
Â£20m for an english cb is chicken feed these days.
		
Click to expand...

I donâ€™t think they will understand 

Â£20mil is nothing right now when you look at the grand scheme - 

He suffered a nasty knee injury which had him out for a year and when back fit Bournemouth were more settled and struggled to get game time - went to Villa on loan , played every single game moving into CB. 

There are players in the championship that have Â£30mil price tags on them , the prices are crazy now and Mings for Villa was superb hence why they have bought him


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I donâ€™t think they will understand

Â£20mil is nothing right now when you look at the grand scheme -

He suffered a nasty knee injury which had him out for a year and when back fit Bournemouth were more settled and struggled to get game time - went to Villa on loan , played every single game moving into CB.

There are players in the championship that have Â£30mil price tags on them , the prices are crazy now and Mings for Villa was superb hence why they have bought him
		
Click to expand...

Patronising as usual. I have seen his career and take into account the injury and accept Bournemouth were a stronger unit when he came back (perhaps not so much so ironically after he went on loan) and yes he has done ok at Villa but I don't think he's a finished product especially at CB. Granted there is a lack of viable options out there but I think it is still a hefty price tag for someone that may or may not make the PL grade at CB


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 8, 2019)

Diego Costa rumoured to be coming back to the Premier League and Wolves are 4/1 to get him.

If you think I want that master of the dark arts, cheating and pushing and basically winding up the opposition up play for my team....you'd be absolutely right.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 8, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			Diego Costa rumoured to be coming back to the Premier League and Wolves are 4/1 to get him.

If you think I want that master of the dark arts, cheating and pushing and basically winding up the opposition up play for my team....you'd be absolutely right.
		
Click to expand...

What makes you think he will do that. He never did it at chelsea ðŸ¤”ðŸ˜‰


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jul 8, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Definitely. No doubt Mings has potential but has never really broken through at Bournemouth in the PL and did ok at Villa. I would rather have a Maguire every time *especially with the Mings disciplinary record on top which indicates he has a hot head*, something a good PL striker will try and expose. *On the plus side in the bid to return to the PL Fulham have signed Mitrovic on a five year deal which is good news*. I thought he might go to a PL side but he'll be massive again for us. Looks like Liverpool are going to get our next rising star Harvey Elliott. Rumours have it he's well ahead of Sessignon at a similar stage
		
Click to expand...

So you think that Mings has a bit of a hot head due to his disciplinary record. 18 games, 4 yellows and a red card for Villa isn't that bad for a defender especially with cards being handed out like confetti in the modern game, and the red was for a second yellow so not a straight red card. But signing Mitrovic is good news, despite the fact that he is well known for having a hot head. 77 (Prem) games, 11 yellows and two straight reds is hardly a great record for a forward.


----------



## GG26 (Jul 8, 2019)

Perez and even better Tielemans, some great business by Leicester in this window so far.  If we can keep hold of the likes of Maguire it could be an exciting season ahead (although nothing could ever top 2015/16).


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 8, 2019)

GG26 said:



			Perez and even better Tielemans, some great business by Leicester in this window so far.  If we can keep hold of the likes of Maguire it could be an exciting season ahead (although nothing could ever top 2015/16).
		
Click to expand...

In all honesty when City played Leicester, it was proper squeaky bum time. Leicester had a fantastic well drilled team. Â£90 million for Maguire could be money well invested in that team.


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 8, 2019)

GG26 said:



			Perez and even better Tielemans, some great business by Leicester in this window so far.  If we can keep hold of the likes of Maguire it could be an exciting season ahead (although nothing could ever top 2015/16).
		
Click to expand...

In all honesty mate a lot of Toon fans don't really rate Perez at all, it's just he's the best of a bad bunch lol.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			So you think that Mings has a bit of a hot head due to his disciplinary record. 18 games, 4 yellows and a red card for Villa isn't that bad for a defender especially with cards being handed out like confetti in the modern game, and the red was for a second yellow so not a straight red card. But signing Mitrovic is good news, despite the fact that he is well known for having a hot head. 77 (Prem) games, 11 yellows and two straight reds is hardly a great record for a forward.
		
Click to expand...

Your numbers cover the whole career including Newcastle where he was notoriously hot headed. However at Fulham last season 2018/19 only 9 yellows in the PL in 48 games (all comps inc internationals), https://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=67457&season_id=151  and in the championship the year before it was even better and just 6 (again all comps). https://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=67457&season_id=150 When Jokanavic was in charge he really found a way to calm him down and Ranieri took that on as well and I think Parker will do the same


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 9, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			In all honesty mate a lot of Toon fans don't really rate Perez at all, it's just he's the best of a bad bunch lol.
		
Click to expand...

My son had a season ticket for 3 yrs at the Toon. In his view Perez is largely a passenger who pops up every now and again. He has finished the last 2 seasons well but he doesn't play a full season. Most fans I came across when the transfer came up said take their hand off.

Your whole post is spot on, in a bad team an average player seems okay.

The bigger issue is not that Perez has gone but they are not replacing him, Diame or Rondon and can't do until they have a manager. The clock is ticking but apparently not at St James park.


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 9, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			My son had a season ticket for 3 yrs at the Toon. In his view Perez is largely a passenger who pops up every now and again. He has finished the last 2 seasons well but he doesn't play a full season. Most fans I came across when the transfer came up said take their hand off.

Your whole post is spot on, in a bad team an average player seems okay.

The bigger issue is not that Perez has gone but they are not replacing him, Diame or Rondon and can't do until they have a manager. The clock is ticking but apparently not at St James park.
		
Click to expand...

Aye, Perez seems to be sub quite a lot which is odd if he's such a quality player.
Who are they left with if Rondon doesn't stay, Gayle?  Worrying times ahead for them.
We discussed it over a few rounds this weekend, the general feeling is this could be the year the club finally loses the fans if something positive doesn't happen. I know the fans are already massively disheartened, but the takeover rumours got them renewing season tickets again and now they are seemingly left with a load of dross. It's quite funny really


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 9, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			Aye, Perez seems to be sub quite a lot which is odd if he's such a quality player.
Who are they left with if Rondon doesn't stay, Gayle?  Worrying times ahead for them.
We discussed it over a few rounds this weekend, the general feeling is this could be the year the club finally loses the fans if something positive doesn't happen. I know the fans are already massively disheartened, but the takeover rumours got them renewing season tickets again and now they are seemingly left with a load of dross. It's quite funny really 

Click to expand...

Yup, I'm pleased it is not my team. Rondon has already gone back, his loan period has expired, so they are left with Gayle as the only striker, someone who has consistently failed at that level. The two top scorers last year have gone, oops.

It's an absolute car crash. No manager, no manager in sight. No manager likely to come until the takeover is resolved one way or the other and blimey that has gone quiet. No players likely to be signed because why would you come to a club when you don't know if the manager will like you. Why would Ashley agree to signings anyway when he is soon to be off, or not of course. It is a perfect storm and I suspect they will currently be favourites for the drop, quite rightly. They desperately need the ownership situation resolving followed by a manager installing a day or two after.

Will they really lose the fans? They turn up whatever. It is a Pavlov's dog situation, it's match day, go the match. No matter how badly they dislike the owner and the team they go. Toon fans love a good moan . Interesting to watch from the outside but sad at the same time, they are like a boat slowly rusting.


----------



## Jensen (Jul 9, 2019)

Sissoko was the last Toon player who left for Â£30M, and after looking dross at the start thankfully he's turned it round.
However Â£30M for Perez is a massive amount and I don't think he'll stand up to that value. I feel he's very limited and not a player who stands out. I think he's a bit lightweight too


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 9, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Sissoko was the last Toon player who left for Â£30M, and after looking dross at the start thankfully he's turned it round.
However Â£30M for Perez is a massive amount and I don't think he'll stand up to that value. I feel he's very limited and not a player who stands out. I think he's a bit lightweight too
		
Click to expand...

I think he has bags of talent, maybe he doesn't show it on a consistent enough basis. But the Prem is full of talented players who don't quite have the consistency. I think Rodgers is a decent manager to get the best out of players and I'd back Perez to do well under him.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 9, 2019)

Apparently Steve Bruce is the leading name in the odds for next Newcastle manager now. How embarrassing. If that happens I'm lumping on them to be relegated.


----------



## Cherry13 (Jul 9, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I think he has bags of talent, maybe he doesn't show it on a consistent enough basis. But the Prem is full of talented players who don't quite have the consistency. I think Rodgers is a decent manager to get the best out of players and I'd back Perez to do well under him.
		
Click to expand...

Heâ€™ll do alryt in a Rodgers system and give a decent return of high single figures over 25 games or so.  He got better when Almiron joined, so will benefit from playing with Maddison and Tielemans.  I suspect Leicester are being prudent in there business and brining in Maddisonâ€™s replacement before he either goes this year or next, which fair play to them itâ€™s a good way to do it. 

In terms of Newcastle in general... sigh!


----------



## fundy (Jul 9, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Apparently Steve Bruce is the leading name in the odds for next Newcastle manager now. How embarrassing. If that happens I'm lumping on them to be relegated.
		
Click to expand...

the decent prices on that went weeks ago (as did the ones for Leicester to finish top 6/ without the top 6)


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 9, 2019)

Talking of Steve Bruce - the series of podcast episodes discussing his football-crime novels are incredible:

https://play.acast.com/s/quicklykevin/148386e5-db4b-4abb-90ce-f6d1c07f494e

That one + the two parter about the follow-up book written by Bruce - Sweeper. Absolute genius. I implore you to listen to them, they're so good.


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 9, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Apparently Steve Bruce is the leading name in the odds for next Newcastle manager now. How embarrassing. If that happens I'm lumping on them to be relegated.
		
Click to expand...

I thought that was just paper talk from a few weeks ago?


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 9, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Talking of Steve Bruce - the series of podcast episodes discussing his football-crime novels are incredible:

https://play.acast.com/s/quicklykevin/148386e5-db4b-4abb-90ce-f6d1c07f494e

That one + the two parter about the follow-up book written by Bruce - Sweeper. Absolute genius. I implore you to listen to them, they're so good.
		
Click to expand...

No but I read some superb reviews on them a while back.

https://thesetpieces.com/features/sweeper-steve-bruce-review/ 
https://thesetpieces.com/features/defender-steve-bruce-review/ 
The 'striker' one seems to have gone missing sadly.
Oh wait, found it hosted somewhere else: https://www.balls.ie/football/steve-bruce-novel-293169  This is actually the first one in the series.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 9, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			I thought that was just paper talk from a few weeks ago?
		
Click to expand...

Not sure, it was doing the rounds today though. He's now the bookies favourite.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 9, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			No but I read some superb reviews on them a while back.

https://thesetpieces.com/features/sweeper-steve-bruce-review/
https://thesetpieces.com/features/defender-steve-bruce-review/
The 'striker' one seems to have gone missing sadly.
Oh wait, found it hosted somewhere else: https://www.balls.ie/football/steve-bruce-novel-293169  This is actually the first one in the series.
		
Click to expand...

Give the podcast a listen, it's properly hilarious. Ivo Graham is bloody brilliant.


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 9, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Not sure, it was doing the rounds today though. He's now the bookies favourite.
		
Click to expand...

What a knob if it's true.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 9, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Give the podcast a listen, it's properly hilarious. Ivo Graham is bloody brilliant.
		
Click to expand...

I will man, I've bookmarked that for later. Currently re-reading those written reviews as well, trying not to chuckle out loud in the office.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 10, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Talking of Steve Bruce - the series of podcast episodes discussing his football-crime novels are incredible:

https://play.acast.com/s/quicklykevin/148386e5-db4b-4abb-90ce-f6d1c07f494e

That one + the two parter about the follow-up book written by Bruce - Sweeper. Absolute genius. I implore you to listen to them, they're so good.
		
Click to expand...

Listened to the one on Striker last night, it was hilarious. Only just seen from re-reading this post that they did another one on Sweeper?? I'll have to find that one as well now!

I did also listen to the Championship Manager 97/98 one (I think you posted that in the old Champ thread?) which was really good. Too close to home with some of the things they said. Particularly the thing about hating the real-life player for their exploits in your game save.  I've still never forgiven Leon Osman for injuring one of my key players once (weirdly can't remember which one of my players it was).


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 10, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Listened to the one on Striker last night, it was hilarious. Only just seen from re-reading this post that they did another one on Sweeper?? I'll have to find that one as well now!

I did also listen to the Championship Manager 97/98 one (I think you posted that in the old Champ thread?) which was really good. Too close to home with some of the things they said. Particularly the thing about hating the real-life player for their exploits in your game save.  I've still never forgiven Leon Osman for injuring one of my key players once (weirdly can't remember which one of my players it was).
		
Click to expand...

I re-listened to Striker last night on my way home from work, and jumped straight into Part 1 of Sweeper this morning and it's even better than the Striker episode. More of Ivo Graham reading extracts, more on the Jaguar XJ8 3.2 litre sport edition v-reg, it's incredible. The fact he's potentially going to be managing a PL _soccer _team in 2019 is so funny. They've got Defender as well, so expecting an episode on that in the new series when it comes out.

Haha yep, I did indeed. I've actually gone back to 97/98 since that podcast and loving the Nostalgia. Such a simple game back then but so fun.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 10, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			I re-listened to Striker last night on my way home from work, and jumped straight into Part 1 of Sweeper this morning and it's even better than the Striker episode. More of Ivo Graham reading extracts, more on the Jaguar XJ8 3.2 litre sport edition v-reg, it's incredible. The fact he's potentially going to be managing a PL _soccer _team in 2019 is so funny. They've got Defender as well, so expecting an episode on that in the new series when it comes out.

Haha yep, I did indeed. I've actually gone back to 97/98 since that podcast and loving the Nostalgia. Such a simple game back then but so fun.
		
Click to expand...

I'm pretty certain I had that game, in those days you used to have to re-launch your PC in 'MS-DOS' mode to play it. I can't remember too many of the players from it though - CM01/02 is much more my wheelhouse for that. But I remember my formation in 97/98 because it was pretty mad - a bit like the one one of them describes in that podcast with arrows everywhere. I had a back 3 that was one CB and full backs, then a DMC with an arrow going back, then 3 MCs, but the right and left ones had arrows going all the way up alongside the striker. Then I had a AML and an AMR just to sling crosses in and a lone SC (flanked by the two MCs who had bombed on of course). So it was like a 4-5-1 in defence but in attack we had only one man back and 5 up top.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 10, 2019)

Yep, I've installed an MS-DOS emulator on my Mac (called Boxer if anyone's interested) so I can play the old CM games. They're great fun. 

Stand-out players from this game seem to be Tommy Svindal Larsen, Ibrahima Bakayoko (if only he was this good for Everton), Bjorn Heidenstrom (Â£50k from Orient - good enough to play for a top PL side) John Curtis and Erik Nevland. United had some crazy good youth players. John Curtis is the best CB at the club and one of the best in the league at 18.


----------



## richart (Jul 10, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I donâ€™t think they will understand

Â£20mil is nothing right now when you look at the grand scheme -

He suffered a nasty knee injury which had him out for a year and when back fit Bournemouth were more settled and struggled to get game time - went to Villa on loan , played every single game moving into CB.

There are players in the championship that have Â£30mil price tags on them , the prices are crazy now and Mings for Villa was superb hence why they have bought him
		
Click to expand...

Having see Mings play and stamp at Mad Stad, I would rather buy Matt Miazga. Three years younger, USA international and superb for us. Helped keep us in Championship. Sure Chelsea would sell for less than Â£20million.


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2019)

Sounds like Koscielny refused to go on Arsenals pre season tour, cracking way for the club captain to behave. Thought he was one of the better ones  Let him rot in the reserves


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2019)

fundy said:



			Sounds like Koscielny refused to go on Arsenals pre season tour, cracking way for the club captain to behave. Thought he was one of the better ones  Let him rot in the reserves
		
Click to expand...

Disgusting behaviour.
I thought Pogba might do the same, but thankfully he has a semblance of respect and professionalism, despite being a muppet at times!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 11, 2019)

Interesting. https://www.skysports.com/football/...ager-harvey-elliott-to-be-decided-by-tribunal 

Very surprised at Koscielny. Thought he was a solid club man but shows that an agent in his ear and the lure of a bigger payday can turn a lot of players heads. https://www.skysports.com/football/...oscielny-refuses-to-travel-on-pre-season-tour


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 12, 2019)

fundy said:



			Sounds like Koscielny refused to go on Arsenals pre season tour, cracking way for the club captain to behave. Thought he was one of the better ones  Let him rot in the reserves
		
Click to expand...

What was the reason though? Surely he's not trying to force a move at his age?


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 12, 2019)

Apparently he's had offers from Ligue 1 and Arsenal won't let him leave. He's been trying to mutually terminate his contract/buy himself out but the club won't let him.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 12, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			What was the reason though? Surely he's not trying to force a move at his age?
		
Click to expand...

Looking to be released from his contract. Think he has ideas about playing in France


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 12, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Looking to be released from his contract. Think he has ideas about playing in France
		
Click to expand...

Well that's a bit ridiculous. Was happy with his contract while he was recently injured for a year no doubt. With their supposed money issues they're hardly just going to release a centre back and have to buy another player are they?? What a plum.


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 12, 2019)

Badly handled on both sides by all accounts I have read.


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 12, 2019)

For Arsenal, this coming season will be a car crash.


----------



## Jensen (Jul 12, 2019)

It could be worse for you Gooners, you could be a Toon fan with Ashley at the helm


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 12, 2019)

Jensen said:



			It could be worse for you Gooners, you could be a Toon fan with Ashley at the helm
		
Click to expand...

I need to resurrect my fantasy football team name from the other year... Gan Doon With The Toon ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Jensen (Jul 12, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			I need to resurrect my fantasy football team name from the other year... Gan Doon With The Toon ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Sadly I think their odds on favourite to gan doon, and that could be a headline in The Chronicle â˜¹ï¸


----------



## fundy (Jul 12, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Badly handled on both sides by all accounts I have read.
		
Click to expand...

just for a change lol


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 12, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Looking to be released from his contract. Think he has ideas about playing in France
		
Click to expand...

I read he wants to walk a year early. My response would be for him to buy his contract out, plus reimbursement of his wages when on the sick bench.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jul 12, 2019)

Jensen said:



			It could be worse for you Gooners, you could be a Toon fan with Ashley at the helm
		
Click to expand...

It's so bad at Newcastle that even Sam Allardyce turned down the manager's job.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 12, 2019)

And so it begins between Barca and Atletico. Every man and his dog knows Griezmann had agreed to sign before the first of July but can Atletico make it stick.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 12, 2019)

Looks like Delph is on his way to Everton. Good deal for both clubs me finks. Â£23 million for City in the last 24 hours.

Re Greizman, am sure he agreed to go before July 1st, but Barca would of been as thick as two short planks if they had signed him before then and paid another X million.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 13, 2019)

Â£8m for Delph, if it goes through, looks like a very smart bit of business. Tashy, what do you see as his best role based on his time at City?


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 13, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Â£8m for Delph, if it goes through, looks like a very smart bit of business. Tashy, what do you see as his best role based on his time at City?
		
Click to expand...

In all honesty re position I don't know, he was one of those players who Pep liked that could play in several positions. Left back, holding midfielder, normal midfielder, box to box no problem and he scored some very good goals. I think it all depends on what Silva wants to do with him. But Â£8 million for and England international who is 28 yr old. That's a very good deal. He was in his last year of his contract. Good deal on all three side LT me finks ðŸ‘


----------



## fundy (Jul 13, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Â£8m for Delph, if it goes through, looks like a very smart bit of business. Tashy, what do you see as his best role based on his time at City?
		
Click to expand...

bench warmer or drinks carrier surely


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Â£8m for Delph, if it goes through, looks like a very smart bit of business. Tashy, what do you see as his best role based on his time at City?
		
Click to expand...

Is someone leaving ? Seems a strange signing when the team is crying out for a goalscorer. He has certainly managed to get a good living from limited ability


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 13, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is someone leaving ? Seems a strange signing when the team is crying out for a goalscorer. He has certainly managed to get a good living from limited ability
		
Click to expand...

PSG are sniffing around Gueye again. It is a great move for him so if PSG are serious then he will go in the summer. Delph is probably being lined up to replace him. If Gueye stays then Delph is a solid addition to the midfield still.

Â£8m for Delph isn't going to stop us buying a goalscorer. The summer budget is not that small ðŸ˜„


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 13, 2019)

Delph is the modern day Phil Neville. And I guess thereâ€™s nothing wrong with that. Squads need those players.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 15, 2019)

Delph is a quality player with one fatal drawback - he still dives into tackles like it's the 1970s. As a regular starter in midfield he'll pick up cards for fun. But, that transfer fee is basically nothing in this day and age, so still a really good signing. I'm surprised to see him go for such a low amount when he is English after all.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 15, 2019)

Very happy with Delph. Not exceptional in any 1 area but versatile, offers another solid option in midfield and can drop in to LB if really needed. Â£8m's a bargain too. Just need to pick up a striker now, praying we can sort out a deal for Moise Kean which has been rumoured, he looks fantastic.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 15, 2019)

Never say never in football but Iâ€™d be amazed if Kean came to Everton. I can see him at a top club.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 15, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Delph is a quality player with one fatal drawback - he still dives into tackles like it's the 1970s. As a regular starter in midfield he'll pick up cards for fun. But, that transfer fee is basically nothing in this day and age, so still a really good signing. I'm surprised to see him go for such a low amount when he is English after all.
		
Click to expand...

This is a honest on the nail opinion. Delph tackling. He at times looked like a mini VIncent Kompany.


----------



## fundy (Jul 15, 2019)

Arsenal are reported to have a Â£45m transfer budget

Leicester are reported to have offered Â£45m for Lewis Dunk to replace Harry Maguire who United are reported to have offered Â£80m for

Not sure which of the 3 numbers is the craziest lol


----------



## Slime (Jul 15, 2019)

fundy said:



*Arsenal are reported to have a Â£45m transfer budget*

Leicester are reported to have offered Â£45m for Lewis Dunk to replace Harry Maguire who United are reported to have offered Â£80m for

Not sure which of the 3 numbers is the craziest lol
		
Click to expand...

I know which I find the funniest!


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 16, 2019)

Remember Ravel Morrison? He's signed for Sheff Utd! Interesting...


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 16, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Remember Ravel Morrison? He's signed for Sheff Utd! Interesting...
		
Click to expand...

One step to instant relegation taken then


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 17, 2019)

Trippier to Atleti has surprised me, he never struck me as a Simeone type of fullback.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Trippier to Atleti has surprised me, he never struck me as a Simeone type of fullback.
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps its the usual â€œwants to win thingsâ€


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Trippier to Atleti has surprised me, he never struck me as a Simeone type of fullback.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49010376 

Indeed. Not sure what they see in him but clearly very good business for Spurs if they can get replacement and cover sorted although given some prices quoted this summer it seems a small amount


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jul 17, 2019)

Aresnal still trying to buy Tierney on the drip.
They should man up and pay what he is worth, are they hard up?


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 17, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Aresnal still trying to buy Tierney on the drip.
They should man up and pay what he is worth, are they hard up?
		
Click to expand...

They're trying to do the same with Zaha. Rumours are they're pretty short on cash this summer.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 17, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			They're trying to do the same with Zaha. Rumours are they're pretty short on cash this summer.
		
Click to expand...

Just goes to show what a great job Wenger done for all those years after Highbury in particular ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 17, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Perhaps its the usual â€œwants to win thingsâ€

Click to expand...

Hes going to Atleti, not Real ðŸ¤­ðŸ˜‰


----------



## PieMan (Jul 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Hes going to Atleti, not Real ðŸ¤­ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

To be fair he has more chance of winning something there than at Spurs! ðŸ˜‰ðŸ¤­ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Hes going to Atleti, not Real ðŸ¤­ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

Europa league winners, 2017/18
And the way the â€œbig 2â€ have been recently, he probably has a better chance there


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 17, 2019)

PieMan said:



			To be fair he has more chance of winning something there than at Spurs! ðŸ˜‰ðŸ¤­ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ¤­ðŸ¤­ðŸ‘


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 17, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Europa league winners, 2017/18
And the way the â€œbig 2â€ have been recently, he probably has a better chance there

Click to expand...

Fair do's. .  It must be tough for pro footballers to change a bottling mentality into a winning one.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 17, 2019)

I guess thatâ€™s the first move out of Spurs to help pay for the players bought 

Fair play to him though for going to Atletico , his stock was very high this time last summer but he fell behind TAA and Walker during the season and looked very flat at Spurs , Atletico always do well and have a great squad - interesting times ahead for him. 

Hopefully that means Aurier plays more in the Prem now ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Jensen (Jul 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Trippier to Atleti has surprised me, he never struck me as a Simeone type of fullback.
		
Click to expand...

Something clearly going on behind the scenes at Tottenham.
Firstly Trippier, ok had a poor last season, but was ok before that and had a fantastic World Cup.
Secondly Rose did not feature a great deal last year, but he's looked unsettled for the last couple of seasons.
There must have been some rumblings of sort going on


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 17, 2019)

Steve Bruce confirmed as Newcastle boss.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 17, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Steve Bruce confirmed as Newcastle boss. 

Click to expand...

As someone said 

Going from Rafa to Bruce is like going on a date with Michelle Keegan and ending up sleeping with Susan Boyle


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Trippier to Atleti has surprised me, he never struck me as a Simeone type of fullback.
		
Click to expand...

You're telling me - I'm stunned that a team famed for their defensive resilience wants a wing back who can't defend!


----------



## Piece (Jul 17, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Steve Bruce confirmed as Newcastle boss. 

Click to expand...


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 17, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1151403859664879617
The only thing worse than a PL team hiring Steve Bruce in 2019.


----------



## Piece (Jul 17, 2019)

Dan2501 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1151403859664879617
The only thing worse than a PL team hiring Steve Bruce in 2019.
		
Click to expand...



Miss World contest...


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 17, 2019)

It can't be real, surely? Seems like an attempt for Paddy Power to go viral and get people stirred up. That can't be their real kit, if it is, it's the worst football shirt ever.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 17, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			It can't be real, surely? Seems like an attempt for Paddy Power to go viral and get people stirred up. That can't be their real kit, if it is, it's the worst football shirt ever.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I saw that this morning, I'm inclined to believe it's a Paddy Power wind-up. I think there are rules on the maximum size the sponsorship can take up on the shirt.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 17, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			It can't be real, surely? Seems like an attempt for Paddy Power to go viral and get people stirred up. That can't be their real kit, if it is, it's the worst football shirt ever.
		
Click to expand...

Some of thier ads are superb, i think you're spot on. Real one released soon.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 17, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah I saw that this morning, I'm inclined to believe it's a Paddy Power wind-up. I think there are rules on the maximum size the sponsorship can take up on the shirt.
		
Click to expand...

There are indeed rules although can't seem to find them online at the moment and this definitely looks to be too large in terms of a logo and print size. 

As for Bruce to Newcastle, I wonder how many players will suddenly be eyeing up moves away and who would want to go there given the brand of football he's noted for. I am not sure if they are bad enough to be relegated given who is coming up and a couple of other PL sides that are normally in or around a relegation scrap but it wouldn't surprise me if they are still fighting for crucial points to get clear right until the end of the season. Ashley and United are a story that just runs and runs.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 17, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1151409096240881665


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 17, 2019)

The Paddy Power ad team really are quite brilliant. They certainly know how to get publicity.

Bruce is a very good championship manager but an average PL one going to a poor team without goals. At least he is familiar with relegation scraps because I can see him being in one this season.


----------



## Khamelion (Jul 17, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			There are indeed rules although can't seem to find them online at the moment and this definitely looks to be too large in terms of a logo and print size.

As for Bruce to Newcastle, I wonder how many players will suddenly be eyeing up moves away and who would want to go there given the brand of football he's noted for. I am not sure if they are bad enough to be relegated given who is coming up and a couple of other PL sides that are normally in or around a relegation scrap but it wouldn't surprise me if they are still fighting for crucial points to get clear right until the end of the season. Ashley and United are a story that just runs and runs.
		
Click to expand...

The team as it stands now, is utter rubbish, championship standard at best. We have lost three strikers and signed no one, the talk of signing Joelinton for 30 million is nonsense, the only way that will happen is if Longstaff goes to Man U for the same figure or more.

I'll continue to watch them on TV but that's it.

My gut feeling is that NUFC will finish 4th, 4th bottom that is, avoiding relegation just,  only just.

Will be interesting to see if Bruce has any pull in bringing players in, and how much he actually has to spend.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 17, 2019)

Incidentally, Bruce is Head Coach, not manager. Questionable about how much say he will have in signings. Ashley seems to be going back to the Pardew era of how to manage the club after giving Rafa a little more, not much, leeway.


----------



## Norrin Radd (Jul 17, 2019)

I think Bruce being Newcastle manager is just brilliant.






















for all the teams that were wondering who would finish bottom of the league .that position is now closed.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 17, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The Paddy Power ad team really are quite brilliant. They certainly know how to get publicity.

Bruce is a very good championship manager but an average PL one going to a poor team without goals. At least he is familiar with relegation scraps because I can see him being in one this season.
		
Click to expand...

Yup. I'm sure there will now be an unprecedented number of people clicking on the Huddersfield official merchandise store to check out of these kits are legit.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 17, 2019)

Khamelion said:



			The team as it stands now, is utter rubbish, championship standard at best. We have lost three strikers and signed no one, the talk of signing Joelinton for 30 million is nonsense, the only way that will happen is if Longstaff goes to Man U for the same figure or more.

I'll continue to watch them on TV but that's it.

My gut feeling is that NUFC will finish 4th, *4th bottom that is, avoiding relegation just,  only just.*

Will be interesting to see if Bruce has any pull in bringing players in, and how much he actually has to spend.
		
Click to expand...

Unless Bruce is gone before Christmas then this is just wishful thinking I'm afraid. That said, he probably will be gone before Christmas.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 17, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Unless Bruce is gone before Christmas then this is just wishful thinking I'm afraid. That said, he probably will be gone before Christmas.
		
Click to expand...

He'll be there past christmas Just as the Â£750m bid from Sheikh han vac comes in to buy the club, only for it to fall through at the 11th hour 31st january 2020 ðŸ˜‰


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 17, 2019)

Barton charged with ABH https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49013849


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 17, 2019)

From Rafa to Bruce...... Newcastle fans count your lucky stars it wasn't Rafa to Hodgson ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Jensen (Jul 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			From Rafa to Bruce...... Newcastle fans count your lucky stars it wasn't Rafa to Hodgson ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

But Palace won't go down, much unlike the Toon


----------



## Khamelion (Jul 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			He'll be there past christmas Just as the Â£750m bid from Sheikh han vac comes in to buy the club, only for it to fall through at the 11th hour 31st january 2020 ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

Exactly 100%


----------



## Khamelion (Jul 17, 2019)

In my previous post I said that I would continue to watch NUFC on TV, I'm not. The more I look at what has gone on with NUFC thus far, the more I think sod it. 

I'm done with them.

Ashley doesn't give a toss about the club, as long as he does the bare minimum to keep it in the EPL so he can strip the TV money, he'll never sell. The only way NUFC get shot of Ashley is if they drop two leagues and go the same route as Sunderland, that way he loses his parachute payments, he loses the EPL TV money, his cash cow will have then run its course. The club will be next to worthless, but he'll have made more from the TV money than he would've from selling.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 17, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Incidentally, Bruce is Head Coach, not manager.
		
Click to expand...

If you want to sign someone to coach heads, there arent many bigger than Stev Bruce's.


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 17, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			If you want to sign someone to coach heads, there arent many bigger than Stev Bruce's. 

Click to expand...


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 17, 2019)

Jensen said:



			But Palace won't go down, much unlike the Toon
		
Click to expand...

Palace's squad  imo is a comfortable 8-12 placed squad, under Hodgson they've stagnated into the Hodgson way. Their results with that squad shouldve been bettter last season and thats without Zaha's dives ðŸ˜‰

Palace have been lucky that theres been another 4 poorer teams than them in recent seasons.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 17, 2019)

Beezerk said:



View attachment 27767

Click to expand...

Thats not true to scale, his heads much bigger ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Palace's squad  imo is a comfortable 8-12 placed squad, under Hodgson they've stagnated into the Hodgson way. Their results with that squad shouldve been bettter last season and thats without Zaha's dives ðŸ˜‰

Palace have been lucky that theres been another 4 poorer teams than them in recent seasons.
		
Click to expand...

What are you on about? I know you don't like Hodgson but that is nonsense. In 17/18 he took over and they finished 11th, with 44 points, then in 18/19 they finished 12th, but with 49 points, so an improvement of 5 points. So he has met your own expectation of being an '8-12th' squad, and if you think Palace's squad is better than Watford's, or West Ham's, then I would disagree.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 17, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			What are you on about? I know you don't like Hodgson but that is nonsense. In 17/18 he took over and they finished 11th, with 44 points, then in 18/19 they finished 12th, but with 49 points, so an improvement of 5 points. So he has met your own expectation of being an '8-12th' squad, and if you think Palace's squad is better than Watford's, or West Ham's, then I would disagree.
		
Click to expand...

Palace's squad is better than sub 50 points. Improving by 5pts with that squad isnt great IMO.

On this occassion my dislike of hodgson is not affecting my opinion ðŸ‘


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Palace's squad is better than sub 50 points. Improving by 5pts with that squad isnt great IMO.

On this occassion my dislike of hodgson is not affecting my opinion ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

How is it?? They've had no decent strikers for two years, their top scorer was the holding midfielder who takes penalties man. Decent pair of wingers in Zaha and Townsend, but their defence is weak. Every team that finished above them has better players than them. There's no way they underachieved. They were also 15 points clear of the drop, a far cry from being 'lucky that 4 teams were worse than them'. I'm no Palace fan, but come on, Hodgson is doing fine. Not uprooting any trees perhaps, but doing a decent job.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 17, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			How is it?? They've had no decent strikers for two years, their top scorer was the holding midfielder who takes penalties man. Decent pair of wingers in Zaha and Townsend, but their defence is weak. Every team that finished above them has better players than them. There's no way they underachieved. They were also 15 points clear of the drop, a far cry from being 'lucky that 4 teams were worse than them'. I'm no Palace fan, but come on, Hodgson is doing fine. Not uprooting any trees perhaps, but doing a decent job.
		
Click to expand...

They spent Â£28m on a proven PL goalscorer 2 seasons ago, granted he was out for a spell inbetween , but even when he was/is fit he never fired. Is it upto the manager/head coach to get him scoring goals?

i think that palace squad is good enough and certainly 9pts better than the standard 40pts.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			They spent Â£28m on *a proven PL goalscorer 2 seasons ago*, granted he was out for a spell inbetween , but even when he was/is fit he never fired. Is it upto the manager/head coach to get him scoring goals?

i think that palace squad is good enough and certainly 9pts better than the standard 40pts.
		
Click to expand...

lol, I'm going to assume this was a joke given that you're a Liverpool fan so you know full well how capable Benteke is of scoring goals. 

If a guy scored 3 in 30 games (17/18) I don't think the blame can be entirely with the manager. Batshuayi performed better when he briefly came in, but the rest of their strikers have been useless.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 17, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			lol, I'm going to assume this was a joke given that you're a Liverpool fan so you know full well how capable Benteke is of scoring goals. 

If a guy scored 3 in 30 games (17/18) I don't think the blame can be entirely with the manager. Batshuayi performed better when he briefly came in, but the rest of their strikers have been useless.
		
Click to expand...

Be interesting to know their conversion rate of chances.
Every time I watched motd they seem to miss a lot of chances.
Anyone know?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 17, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			lol, I'm going to assume this was a joke given that you're a Liverpool fan so you know full well how capable Benteke is of scoring goals. 

If a guy scored 3 in 30 games (17/18) I don't think the blame can be entirely with the manager. Batshuayi performed better when he briefly came in, but the rest of their strikers have been useless.
		
Click to expand...

Check Bentekes record prior to us buyung him. Proven PL Goalscorer.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Check Bentekes record prior to us buyung him. Proven PL Goalscorer.
		
Click to expand...

I did, he had one really good season in England, his first with Villa. Second season 10 goals, third season 13 goals, not really spectacular totals. 9 goals for you, pretty poor given the fee. 15 goals first season for Palace was alright I guess, these were mostly under Allardyce who loves a targetman for route one football of course. Since then shocking, obviously Hodgson hasn't got the best from him, but 3 goals in 30+ games some blame has to be with the player also.

Anyway, don't want to spend all day talking about Palace, they're not really worth the time.


----------



## fundy (Jul 17, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Be interesting to know their conversion rate of chances.
Every time I watched motd they seem to miss a lot of chances.
Anyone know?
		
Click to expand...

Last season scored 51 goals from 493 shots (33% on target)
Prev Season scored 45 goals from 476 shots (30% on target)

City scored 95 goals from 683 shots (38% on target)
Prev season 106 goals from 665 shots (40% on target)

Arsenal scored 73 goals from 467 shots (36% on target)
Prev season scored 74 from 594 shots (39% on target)

Everton 54 goals from 498 shots (34% on target)
Prev season 44 goals from 359 shots (34% on target)

Watford 52 goals from 437 shots (35% on target)
Prev season 44 goals from 440 shots (30% on target)


Theyre not prolific but not really much worse than their peers but the step ups to the higher placed sides can be seen


----------



## fundy (Jul 17, 2019)

And the scariest stat of those is how much the front 2 bailed Arsenal out last season and still we didnt finish top 4!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 17, 2019)

fundy said:



			Last season scored 51 goals from 493 shots (33% on target)
Prev Season scored 45 goals from 476 shots (30% on target)

City scored 95 goals from 683 shots (38% on target)
Prev season 106 goals from 665 shots (40% on target)

Arsenal scored 73 goals from 467 shots (36% on target)
Prev season scored 74 from 594 shots (39% on target)

Everton 54 goals from 498 shots (34% on target)
Prev season 44 goals from 359 shots (34% on target)

Watford 52 goals from 437 shots (35% on target)
Prev season 44 goals from 440 shots (30% on target)


Theyre not prolific but not really much worse than their peers but the step ups to the higher placed sides can be seen
		
Click to expand...

Well thatâ€™s shows why clubs pay big money for goal scorers.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 17, 2019)

On nights last night.. delighted to wake up to the news that West Ham have broken our transfer record again

Â£45 million believe the reported fee is for SÃ©bastien Haller from frankfurt. 25 year old. 5 year contract. Scored 15 goals for them last season

Just the sort of player we need

Thatâ€™s 70 million spent on 2 players so far , plus 2 free back up keepers 

I believe we are going for another back up striker but would be happy with the following

Haller
HernaNdez 
Antonio 
Yarmenlko 

The last 2 able to fill in for the 1 up top system we play if we are down in strikers 

Happy days


----------



## Slime (Jul 17, 2019)

............................ and United beat Leeds 4-0!


----------



## Wolf (Jul 17, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			On nights last night.. delighted to wake up to the news that West Ham have broken our transfer record again

Â£45 million believe the reported fee is for SÃ©bastien Haller from frankfurt. 25 year old. 5 year contract. Scored 15 goals for them last season

Just the sort of player we need

Thatâ€™s 70 million spent on 2 players so far , plus 2 free back up keepers 

I believe we are going for another back up striker but would be happy with the following

Haller
HernaNdez 
Antonio 
Yarmenlko 

The last 2 able to fill in for the 1 up top system we play if we are down in strikers 

Happy days
		
Click to expand...

Whilst us arsenal fans are still waiting on anything to happen... ðŸ™„


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 17, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			On nights last night.. delighted to wake up to the news that West Ham have broken our transfer record again

Â£45 million believe the reported fee is for SÃ©bastien Haller from frankfurt. 25 year old. 5 year contract. Scored 15 goals for them last season

Just the sort of player we need

Thatâ€™s 70 million spent on 2 players so far , plus 2 free back up keepers

I believe we are going for another back up striker but would be happy with the following

Haller
HernaNdez
Antonio
Yarmenlko

The last 2 able to fill in for the 1 up top system we play if we are down in strikers

Happy days
		
Click to expand...

Â£45 mil ?! Christ the prices have gone made 

How is someone who doesnâ€™t play international football , plays in a mid table team and doesnâ€™t star becomes worth Â£45mil - thatâ€™s just below the price of Jovic isnâ€™t it ? 

They could prob get Callum Wilson for that


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jul 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Â£45 mil ?! Christ the prices have gone made
		
Click to expand...

Many people said the same when Liverpool signed VVD for Â£75 million but with his performances it's not looking such an outrageous fee now. Time will tell if it's a reasonable price or not.

On a separate note, would fans of clubs linked with bids for McGuire prefer him for Â£80 million or Alderwiereld from Spurs for around Â£25 million?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 17, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Many people said the same when Liverpool signed VVD for Â£75 million but with his performances it's not looking such an outrageous fee now. Time will tell if it's a reasonable price or not.

On a separate note, would fans of clubs linked with bids for McGuire prefer him for Â£80 million or Alderwiereld from Spurs for around Â£25 million?
		
Click to expand...

VVD had already performed in the Prem as well as on the international stage even if Â£75 mil was at the time baulked.

And Â£25 mil for Alderwield is a steal if Maguire is Â£80mil


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 17, 2019)

Transfer fees arenâ€™t a true reflection of a players talent these days, that ship well and truly sailed years ago.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 18, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Â£45 mil ?! Christ the prices have gone made

How is someone who doesnâ€™t play international football , plays in a mid table team and doesnâ€™t star becomes worth Â£45mil - thatâ€™s just below the price of Jovic isnâ€™t it ?

They could prob get Callum Wilson for that
		
Click to expand...

Could of got Wilson however his 2 ACL injuries make him a massive risk


----------



## Slime (Jul 18, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Many people said the same when Liverpool signed VVD for Â£75 million but with his performances it's not looking such an outrageous fee now. Time will tell if it's a reasonable price or not.

On a separate note, would fans of clubs linked with bids for McGuire prefer him for Â£80 million or Alderwiereld from Spurs for around Â£25 million?
		
Click to expand...

Maguire, he's four years younger.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 18, 2019)

MAGUIRE.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 18, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			MAGUIRE.
		
Click to expand...

No need to shout


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 18, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			No need to shout
		
Click to expand...

People have been getting it wrong since the bloody world cup.


----------



## Slime (Jul 18, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			People have been getting it wrong since the bloody world cup. 

Click to expand...

Makes a change from Jack Wiltshire!


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 18, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			People have been getting it wrong since the bloody world cup. 

Click to expand...

I hope you've got spell checker set ðŸ˜‰


----------



## fundy (Jul 18, 2019)

United have reportedly offered 62m for Aubameyang whilst holding out for 75m for Lukaku! Theyre almost as bad as we are lol


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 18, 2019)

fundy said:



			United have reportedly offered 62m for Aubameyang whilst holding out for 75m for Lukaku! Theyre almost as bad as we are lol
		
Click to expand...

I dunno. Your stoker could be deemed as ageing... 

Obviously everyone knows you're hard up (relatively). I'd say theres is taking advantage of a situation where as yours is more ridiculous...


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 18, 2019)

Aubameyang is 30 now to be fair, that's a pretty hefty fee if true. Lukaku is only 26.


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 18, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Aubameyang is 30 now to be fair, that's a pretty hefty fee if true. Lukaku is only 26.
		
Click to expand...

But Lukaku is an absolute donkey, I've seen cruise liners turn quicker than him.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 18, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			But Lukaku is an absolute donkey, I've seen cruise liners turn quicker than him.
		
Click to expand...

True enough. Should be less of a problem in Italy though.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 18, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			But Lukaku is an absolute donkey, I've seen cruise liners turn quicker than him.
		
Click to expand...

He scored goals when he was at a proper club. You just need to know how to get a tune out of him . (the answer is ball in front, give him plenty of notice so he doesn't need to turn . For some reason 'the best manager in the world' forgot to look at the clips of the goals he scored for us and realise what he does best)

Orikoru is right, Italy will suit him. Expecting to make a profit on him when everyone knows they want rid is crackers. Do they want to keep him and his wages next year? An expensive bench warmer.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 18, 2019)

Apparently we've bid Â£33.8m for Rafael Leao.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 18, 2019)

Players being banned during the off season is such a cop out.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 18, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Players being banned during the off season is such a cop out.
		
Click to expand...

I assume this is about Sturridge? The most hilariously pointless punishment of all time. Banned from football for two weeks in summer when he doesn't even have a club. That will hit him hard when the lads invite him down Goals and he can't go.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 18, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I assume this is about Sturridge? The most hilariously pointless punishment of all time. Banned from football for two weeks in summer when he doesn't even have a club. That will hit him hard when the lads invite him down Goals and he can't go. 

Click to expand...

There was another case that I canâ€™t quite remember where a player served a ban in summer and was back for the season. Arsenal or City maybe?


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 18, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1151868174645809152


----------



## fundy (Jul 18, 2019)

Dan2501 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1151868174645809152


Click to expand...


you better not have offered Â£40,000,0001 to trump our bid ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 18, 2019)

Dan2501 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1151868174645809152


Click to expand...

Interesting. Another kick in the teeth for Arsenal fans potentially. The way things are going Everton could be taking their place in the top six. You do need another defender though I think. Whether it's Zouma back or someone to replace him.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 18, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Interesting. Another kick in the teeth for Arsenal fans potentially. The way things are going Everton could be taking their place in the top six. You do need another defender though I think. Whether it's Zouma back or someone to replace him.
		
Click to expand...

Definitely need another defender. Think Silva is potentially looking for Holgate to step up at centre half which leaves us with Keane, Mina and Holgate so probably one short there, and then having shipped Jonjoe Kenny out on loan to Schalke we could do with a back-up to Seamus at RB, though that's an area where Holgate could fill in as well where necessary. But yeah, happy with the business we've done so far, Zaha would be a fantastic signing.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 21, 2019)

Wow Madrid really want Bale out of there.


----------



## Wolf (Jul 21, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			Wow Madrid really want Bale out of there.
		
Click to expand...

That's a very public statement by Zidane. Bales medal haul and goal numbers are pretty decent for his time there, however his injury record is awful so I can see why he isn't in their plans. But who takes him going forward with his latest injury record does he add anything to a big team. Or does he go next tier below the big clubs and become a big fish in a slightly smaller pond now


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 21, 2019)

Wolf said:



			That's a very public statement by Zidane. Bales medal haul and goal numbers are pretty decent for his time there, however his injury record is awful so I can see why he isn't in their plans. But who takes him going forward with his latest injury record does he add anything to a big team. Or does he go next tier below the big clubs and become a big fish in a slightly smaller pond now
		
Click to expand...

Tbf he's been available for 40 odd games a year since being there. 

From what I've read he hasn't really tried to dapt to a Spanish lifestyle and that's left him ostracized. 

Ability wise he is good enough for any team imo but he's not loved by the fans because of the above. Also the team was built for Ronaldo. Anyone who even remotely challenged his role in a team was pushed aside. It has similarities to Zlatan at Barca imo. 

Would love to see him back in Prem. Personally think he'd rather spite Madrid and stay there than go to China.


----------



## Wolf (Jul 21, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbf he's been available for 40 odd games a year since being there.

From what I've read he hasn't really tried to dapt to a Spanish lifestyle and that's left him ostracized.

Ability wise he is good enough for any team imo but he's not loved by the fans because of the above. Also the team was built for Ronaldo. Anyone who even remotely challenged his role in a team was pushed aside. It has similarities to Zlatan at Barca imo.

Would love to see him back in Prem. Personally think he'd rather spite Madrid and stay there than go to China.
		
Click to expand...

I don't disagree I think he is quality player but in his time at Madrid he has had 18 injuries meaning he's missed 69 matches, seeing as he signed coming up for 6 years ago that's over 11 games a season average that a player of his value is missing, which for a club paying a high wage expecting to always compete at top level doesn't make good sense to keep him.
That plus like you say he hasn't endeared himself to fans or team mates. Haven't they even nicknamed him the Golfer. 

No surprise they want him out, I to would like see him back in the Premier league but I don't see a top 4 team really needing him.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 21, 2019)

Wolf said:



			I don't disagree I think he is quality player but in his time at Madrid he has had 18 injuries meaning he's missed 69 matches, seeing as he signed coming up for 6 years ago that's over 11 games a season average that a player of his value is missing, which for a club paying a high wage expecting to always compete at top level doesn't make good sense to keep him.
That plus like you say he hasn't endeared himself to fans or team mates. Haven't they even nicknamed him the Golfer.

No surprise they want him out, I to would like see him back in the Premier league but I don't see a top 4 team really needing him.
		
Click to expand...

I reckon he's comfortably better from an an attacking sense than what both Utd and Arsenal have. Of course they're not top 4 ðŸ˜‚

Are those games he missed all through injury of just how many games he's not been involved in for any reason? Didn't realise he'd missed so many through injury tbh. 

I think he'd improve Chelsea and Spurs but one can't sign him and the other woukdnt pay enough.


----------



## Wolf (Jul 21, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I reckon he's comfortably better from an an attacking sense than what both Utd and Arsenal have. Of course they're not top 4 ðŸ˜‚

Are those games he missed all through injury of just how many games he's not been involved in for any reason? Didn't realise he'd missed so many through injury tbh.

I think he'd improve Chelsea and Spurs but one can't sign him and the other woukdnt pay enough.
		
Click to expand...

Arsenal well we're in no position to turn anyone down but yes I agree Bale would improve us but as you say we aren't top 4, and we can't afford anyone right now. UTD I just can't see it happening still think theyre a top club but so much instability in the squad.

Spurs won't take him can't afford him and Chelsea well we know about that one. So again no top 4 side.

Those numbers are  missed games purely though injury since he signed for Real. Doesn't include games where could be banned or simply not selected. So as I say its big number of games and teams that can perhaps afford him see it as a not worthwhile investment where teams that may need break the bank may not be able justify the potential risk.

He's a superb player but it's a lot to weigh up for the teams that realistically need a player of his quality to take a punt on. If I was Bale I think I'd look at another big Euro league see if anyone there wants me, as he'd have chance of some silverware and a little prestige but he hasn't endeared himself to Spanish so coming back here bakes sense but comes back to where does he go and who can afford him.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 21, 2019)

If I were Bale, I'd take the Â£600k he is supposedly to be earning, and spend the next 3 years on the Spanish golf courses. Why would you move just to save them money? I suspect him, Sanchez and Ozil would all do the same.
Perhaps it might teach these clubs a thing or 2 about stupid amounts of wages.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 21, 2019)

Fought the Zidane statement seemed very cold and disrespectful to everything Bale has achieved at Madrid. Bayern seem to be making the right noises and I wonder if they can get him at a decent price. If Madrid want him gone will they hold out for the very top dollar price?


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 21, 2019)

Wan-Bissaka was fantastic yesterday for United. Real pace and power down the right hand side.


----------



## Kaizer_Soze (Jul 21, 2019)

Looks like Kieran Tierney is at last off to Arsenal, hope Celtic have added a big sell on clause into the contract, 6 months playing is the EPL he will suddendly be worh Â£100 M, if he gets a game that is. IMHO he is a better left back than Andy Robertson.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 21, 2019)

Kaizer_Soze said:



			IMHO he is a better left back than Andy Robertson.
		
Click to expand...

In time he may be but heâ€™s only played tinpot football so far so hasnâ€™t proved it.


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 21, 2019)

In this weeks crazy Wolves rumour...Ruben Dias. 

Maybe being the Champions of Asia will entice him.


----------



## ger147 (Jul 21, 2019)

Kaizer_Soze said:



			Looks like Kieran Tierney is at last off to Arsenal, hope Celtic have added a big sell on clause into the contract, 6 months playing is the EPL he will suddendly be worh Â£100 M, if he gets a game that is. IMHO he is a better left back than Andy Robertson.
		
Click to expand...

Where are you reading that?  All I can find on the news sites, Twitter etc. is that Arsenal's bid has been rejected as Celtic feel the add-on clauses are unrealistic...


----------



## Rlburnside (Jul 21, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Arsenal well we're in no position to turn anyone down but yes I agree Bale would improve us but as you say we aren't top 4, and we can't afford anyone right now. UTD I just can't see it happening still think theyre a top club but so much instability in the squad.

Spurs won't take him can't afford him and Chelsea well we know about that one. So again no top 4 side.

Those numbers are  missed games purely though injury since he signed for Real. Doesn't include games where could be banned or simply not selected. So as I say its big number of games and teams that can perhaps afford him see it as a not worthwhile investment where teams that may need break the bank may not be able justify the potential risk.

He's a superb player but it's a lot to weigh up for the teams that realistically need a player of his quality to take a punt on. If I was Bale I think I'd look at another big Euro league see if anyone there wants me, as he'd have chance of some silverware and a little prestige but he hasn't endeared himself to Spanish so coming back here bakes sense but comes back to where does he go and who can afford him.
		
Click to expand...

I think Spurs have a buy back clause from the original transfer so could have first option, but I can't see us buying him unless he would take a big drop in wages,  it will depend on how ambitious Bale is in football terms where he will end up.

Or he could ride it out and rake in more money and play golf at the short course he had built at his house.


----------



## Slime (Jul 21, 2019)

It's looking like De Gea is set to sign a new deal.
Phew!


----------



## Wolf (Jul 21, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			I think Spurs have a buy back clause from the original transfer so could have first option, but I can't see us buying him unless he would take a big drop in wages,  it will depend on how ambitious Bale is in football terms where he will end up.

Or he could ride it out and rake in more money and play golf at the short course he had built at his house.
		
Click to expand...

I can't see any Premier league side footing the bill for his wages. Spurs just can't see them paying it, Utd are stuck with Sanchez wage bill and the increase in Rashfords can't see them taking the hit, Chelsea are banned, City don't need him and he would likely not start games so they won't sign him, can't see Liverpool paying him that wage when they already have Mane in that position.  Arsenal well were stuck with Ozil being a passenger in a high wage and we're struggling to meet terms with Tierney and Zaha so rules us out.

That means all the big names are out of bank rolling the fee and salary. Look at the next tier clubs, I can't see Everton, Watford, Wolves, Leicester affording his wage demands. Effectively unless he takes a huge drop I don't see a Premier league team showing a genuine interest. Realistically it only leaves someone like Bayern, PSG or Juve in Europe being able to afford his salary. Juve don't need him, PSG have Mbappe so that's just Bayern. Which maybe a possibility I guess but again don't see them being interested if he can't be bothered in Spain where its always warm he won't be interested in Germany where its gets sodding freezing cold. 

They were saying the same thing on talksport that he's been priced out of a move that nobody is showing real interest and his only option is to take a huge pay cut or do a Winston Bogarde. 

It's gonna be interesting to see this one pan out


----------



## Kaizer_Soze (Jul 22, 2019)

ger147 said:



			Where are you reading that?  All I can find on the news sites, Twitter etc. is that Arsenal's bid has been rejected as Celtic feel the add-on clauses are unrealistic...
		
Click to expand...

Saw somewhere yesterday, sure it was BBC gossip column that Tierney has agreed personal terms with Arsenal, they just need to make a bid acceptable to Celtic which will probably happen sometime this week.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 22, 2019)

Kaizer_Soze said:



			Saw somewhere yesterday, sure it was BBC gossip column that Tierney has agreed personal terms with Arsenal, they just need to make a bid acceptable to Celtic which will probably happen sometime this week.
		
Click to expand...

Gossip being the key word there


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 22, 2019)

Kaizer_Soze said:



			Looks like Kieran Tierney is at last off to Arsenal, hope Celtic have added a big sell on clause into the contract, 6 months playing is the EPL he will suddendly be worh Â£100 M, if he gets a game that is. *IMHO he is a better left back than Andy Robertson.*

Click to expand...

I suspect Tierney will leave at some point surprised Spurs arenâ€™t looking at him as a replacement for Rose but better than Robbo ?! Thatâ€™s needs to be proven because imo Robertson is the best left back in European Football.

In regards all the talk about Bale - itâ€™s poor what Madrid are doing but itâ€™s an arrogant club with an arrogant manager so itâ€™s no surprise - I would have him at Liverpool in a flash , he is still an outstanding player , but those wages stop him from playing in the Prem. Will prob end up at PSG or Bayern


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 22, 2019)

I'd Tierney has the potential to be as good as Robertson, but not at that level yet, needs to prove it in a top league. Tough break for him really, being a Scottish LB at the same time as Robertson, and for Scotland as well, as they've got one world class and one potentially world class player and they both play the same position.


----------



## BrianM (Jul 22, 2019)

Kaizer_Soze said:



			Looks like Kieran Tierney is at last off to Arsenal, hope Celtic have added a big sell on clause into the contract, 6 months playing is the EPL he will suddendly be worh Â£100 M, if he gets a game that is. IMHO he is a better left back than Andy Robertson.
		
Click to expand...

A better left back than Robertson, what are you smoking ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£
Once heâ€™s proved himself in arguably the toughest league in the world and the Champions League, then you can start comparing.
Thereâ€™s not a better left back than Andy Robertson at the moment.


----------



## Crazyface (Jul 22, 2019)

Anyone else wondering when ANY of those proposed transfers will actually take place. Maybe they run out of money? or players are finally over priced. Â£100+ MILLIOn for Pogba . LOL !!!! I wouldn't pay him in washers.


----------



## Wolf (Jul 22, 2019)

Crazyface said:



			Anyone else wondering when ANY of those proposed transfers will actually take place. Maybe they run out of money? or players are finally over priced. Â£100+ MILLIOn for Pogba . LOL !!!! I wouldn't pay him in washers.
		
Click to expand...

Clubs like Real, Juve, PSG, Barca and Bayern won't run out of money. 

The exorbitant transfer fees are easily affordable to them due to the commercialisation of the game. Juve prime example â‚¬94m for a player his age was questioned over here, they made that and more back in 3 days of shirt sales l, he's been a success in the pitch and now everything they make is profit so effectively he didn't cost a thing.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 22, 2019)

Crazyface said:



			Anyone else wondering when ANY of those proposed transfers will actually take place. Maybe they run out of money? or players are finally over priced. Â£100+ MILLIOn for Pogba . LOL !!!! I wouldn't pay him in washers.
		
Click to expand...

You would have thought the bubble would have burst but no sign yet. I remember reading about the Neymar transfer and the thinking behind PSG signing him. Yes because he is a good player but it was as much to do with him opening the S.American market for PSG's sponsors. Pogba is similar to Beckham in that his social media following makes him even more attractive to a team than his playing abilities. The commercial people at a football club dream about a Beckham or a Pogba.

The money in football is now so driven by commercial reasons, sponsors, advertisers, tv (which themselves are driven by sponsors etc) that the actual revenue from fans etc is nearly irrelevant. There is no sign on the horizon of that bubble bursting.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 22, 2019)

I trust you've all seen this by now? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1152943509982318593


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 22, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			I'd Tierney has the potential to be as good as Robertson, but not at that level yet, needs to prove it in a top league. Tough break for him really, being a Scottish LB at the same time as Robertson, and for Scotland as well, as they've got one world class and one potentially world class player and they both play the same position.
		
Click to expand...

The way Robertson goes forward, Iâ€™d have thought they could play em both. I recall England doing it with Cole and Bridge when we were short of left sided players. 

I donâ€™t follow the Scottish footy team, but Id be amazed if they have someone who could play left wing better than Robertson if tierney played lb.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 22, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			The way Robertson goes forward, Iâ€™d have thought they could play em both. I recall England doing it with Cole and Bridge when we were short of left sided players.

I donâ€™t follow the Scottish footy team, but Id be amazed if they have someone who could play left wing better than Robertson if tierney played lb.
		
Click to expand...

It's the same problem Wan-Bissaka is going to have really. I suspect that before long Alexander-Arnold will be England's first choice at RB, and AWB will be behind him for the vast majority of his career. Bit like being Andrew Cole or Fowler in the era of Shearer, Sheringham, Ferdinand etc.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 22, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			It's the same problem Wan-Bissaka is going to have really. I suspect that before long Alexander-Arnold will be England's first choice at RB, and AWB will be behind him for the vast majority of his career. Bit like being Andrew Cole or Fowler in the era of Shearer, Sheringham, Ferdinand etc.
		
Click to expand...

You are assuming no drop in form, no injuries. It is rare for that to happen over a long time, although not impossible. Think of the hype around Trippier after the last World Cup, the season he had before that. Poor next season and off to Spain for Â£20m, peanuts now.

The pendulum could swing at any time and England are lucky to have two players of their ability.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 22, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You are assuming no drop in form, no injuries. It is rare for that to happen over a long time, although not impossible. Think of the hype around Trippier after the last World Cup, the season he had before that. Poor next season and off to Spain for Â£20m, peanuts now.

The pendulum could swing at any time and England are lucky to have two players of their ability.
		
Click to expand...

I think it's different because Trippier wasn't a youngster, he was just in good form. When a player has already proved themself at the highest level at 19 or 20 you expect them to go from strength to strength. Admittedly not always the case. 

As a side issue it's annoying that England have so many decent right back options but barely a fraction of those good options at left back, or centre back. Or midfield. Maybe we should just play Wan-Bissaka at left back?? Sure he could manage.


----------



## fundy (Jul 22, 2019)

lol Wan Bissaka has only been at United 2 minutes and hes gone from being not good enough at the end of last season to being that good he can swap sides and play left back at international level


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 22, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I think it's different because Trippier wasn't a youngster, he was just in good form. When a player has already proved themself at the highest level at 19 or 20 you expect them to go from strength to strength. Admittedly not always the case.

As a side issue it's annoying that England have so many decent right back options but barely a fraction of those good options at left back, or centre back. Or midfield. Maybe we should just play Wan-Bissaka at left back?? Sure he could manage.
		
Click to expand...

Some progress, some stay still and peak at 19. Has John Stones progressed how we hoped? Don't think he has. We do tend to build young players up into world beaters before they are ready to truly be in that category.

There is usually a reason some players are on the right and some are on the left. You can shoe horn them onto the other side of the pitch but they will get caught out at the highest level becasue they are not quite comforatable enough on the other side of the pitch.

Having a debate about who is the better right back is nicer than debating who is the least worst option at CB


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 22, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Some progress, some stay still and peak at 19. Has John Stones progressed how we hoped? Don't think he has. We do tend to build young players up into world beaters before they are ready to truly be in that category.

There is usually a reason some players are on the right and some are on the left. You can shoe horn them onto the other side of the pitch but they will get caught out at the highest level becasue they are not quite comforatable enough on the other side of the pitch.

Having a debate about who is the better right back is nicer than debating who is the least worst option at CB 

Click to expand...

Bad example for me as I never rated Stones much. 

I think it's a shame that more professional players aren't two footed. Really, in this day and age a top full back should be able to play either side comfortably. Phil Neville managed it and that was 15 years ago. I play left back at Sunday league and my left foot is only for standing on.  It's honestly not wildly different just playing on the opposite side.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 22, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			It's the same problem Wan-Bissaka is going to have really. I suspect that before long Alexander-Arnold will be England's first choice at RB, and AWB will be behind him for the vast majority of his career. Bit like being Andrew Cole or Fowler in the era of Shearer, Sheringham, Ferdinand etc.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, but for Scotland I'd imagine if they really are that good then you can play them in the team still.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 22, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Bad example for me as I never rated Stones much. 

I think it's a shame that more professional players aren't two footed. Really, in this day and age a top full back should be able to play either side comfortably. Phil Neville managed it and that was 15 years ago. I play left back at Sunday league and my left foot is only for standing on.  It's honestly not wildly different just playing on the opposite side.
		
Click to expand...

I'd imagine the players you face aren't quite as good as those a pl left back would face. 

Jt is up there with England's best cbs and yet he would always want to play on a specific side of centre.... 

Small margins at the top, if you're not usinf your natural foot to make a tackle/block that split second be the difference between contact or early bath.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 22, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree, but for Scotland I'd imagine if they really are that good then you can play them in the team still.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah that's true. In their side Robertson must be so far and away the best player they might as well play him up front!


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 22, 2019)

So all those Fekir-Liverpool rumours over the last 2 years and he ends up going to Real Betis for â‚¬20m, opening the door for Lo Celso to join Spurs. How has that happened? â‚¬20m is an absolute bargain.


----------



## fundy (Jul 22, 2019)

Sounds like Arsenal have sorted the deal for Saliba but are loaning him back to St Etienne next season (not like were in any hurry for a centre half lol) and also a loan deal for Ceballos from Madrid is about to be done

Id happily have had Fekir for 20m mind!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 22, 2019)

fundy said:



			Sounds like Arsenal have sorted the deal for Saliba but are loaning him back to St Etienne next season (not like were in any hurry for a centre half lol) and also a loan deal for Ceballos from Madrid is about to be done

*Id happily have had Fekir for 20m mind!*

Click to expand...

Even with that potential knee issue ? Must be a reason why after what happened last summer no one has touched him when going so cheap


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 22, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			So all those Fekir-Liverpool rumours over the last 2 years and he ends up going to Real Betis for â‚¬20m, opening the door for Lo Celso to join Spurs. How has that happened? â‚¬20m is an absolute bargain.
		
Click to expand...

I understood Liverpool pulled the plug at the last minute as knee issues showed up on the medical.


----------



## fundy (Jul 22, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Even with that potential knee issue ? Must be a reason why after what happened last summer no one has touched him when going so cheap
		
Click to expand...

when you have our budget you have to take chances


----------



## Wolf (Jul 22, 2019)

fundy said:



			when you have our budget you have to take chances 

Click to expand...

With our budget we'd be lucky to sign a mobile phone contract


----------



## fundy (Jul 22, 2019)

Wolf said:



			With our budget we'd be lucky to sign a mobile phone contract
		
Click to expand...

nah wed get one we just wouldnt be able to use it for a year


----------



## Fish (Jul 23, 2019)

fundy said:



			nah wed get one we just wouldnt be able to use it for a year 

Click to expand...

Outgoing calls only


----------



## ger147 (Jul 23, 2019)

Kaizer_Soze said:



			Looks like Kieran Tierney is at last off to Arsenal, hope Celtic have added a big sell on clause into the contract, 6 months playing is the EPL he will suddendly be worh Â£100 M, if he gets a game that is. IMHO he is a better left back than Andy Robertson.
		
Click to expand...

Tierney to Arsenal deal off. Celtic have rejected all of Arsenal's bids so far as Arsenal won't pay enough of the reported Â£25m fee up front and too many unrealistic clauses.

Arsenal not planning any more bids and are now looking elsewhere according to this morning's reports.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 23, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			So all those Fekir-Liverpool rumours over the last 2 years and he ends up going to Real Betis for â‚¬20m, opening the door for Lo Celso to join Spurs. How has that happened? â‚¬20m is an absolute bargain.
		
Click to expand...

Get ready for all the â€œheâ€™s not that good anywayâ€ ðŸ˜


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 23, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Even with that potential knee issue ? Must be a reason why after what happened last summer no one has touched him when going so cheap
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'd have had him for Â£20m, it's a gamble but not a mega expensive one.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 23, 2019)

Fish said:



			Outgoing calls only 

Click to expand...

You mean incoming ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 23, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			You mean incoming ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

It's Arsenal you're talking about, who would want to phone then?


----------



## Jensen (Jul 23, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah, I'd have had him for Â£20m, it's a gamble but not a mega expensive one.
		
Click to expand...

That says it all about today's costs when Â£20m is a gamble but not mega expensive.....it's criminal


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 23, 2019)

Â£20m plus agents fees, signing on fee, plus wages. As fans we only ever think of the transfer fee, I wonder for the likes of him what the whole package would be, over the length of a 4yr deal for example?


----------



## dronfield (Jul 23, 2019)

Slime said:



			It's looking like De Gea is set to sign a new deal.
Phew!
		
Click to expand...

Does that mean that Dean Henderson can finally complete his season long loan to us again - was great last year.
Blades are spending some money of late, but hoping to not suddenly have to find a new goalie.

Rich


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 23, 2019)

Jensen said:



			That says it all about today's costs when Â£20m is a gamble but not mega expensive.....it's criminal
		
Click to expand...

It's still a huge amount for Arsenal.


----------



## howbow88 (Jul 23, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Definitely need another defender. Think Silva is potentially looking for Holgate to step up at centre half which leaves us with Keane, Mina and Holgate so probably one short there, and then having shipped Jonjoe Kenny out on loan to Schalke we could do with a back-up to Seamus at RB, though that's an area where Holgate could fill in as well where necessary. But yeah, happy with the business we've done so far, Zaha would be a fantastic signing.
		
Click to expand...

I would genuinely be perplexed if Zaha joined Everton. I doubt you would increase his wage by much (he is on Â£130k p/w with us!!!), he didn't enjoy life in the north a few years ago, and with the greatest respect, he will probably have only a very slight increase in getting any silverware up there. 

A bigger club no doubt, but not a big gap between us at the moment... 

If Chelsea didn't have a transfer ban, he would almost certainly be moving there. They would give him a substantial wage rise, they would pay a decent fee, he wouldn't have to move home, and he is a bit of a replacement for Hazard. 

As it is, I think he will end up staying with us for another year.


----------



## howbow88 (Jul 23, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Palace's squad  imo is a comfortable 8-12 placed squad, under Hodgson they've stagnated into the Hodgson way. Their results with that squad shouldve been bettter last season and thats without Zaha's dives ðŸ˜‰

Palace have been lucky that theres been another 4 poorer teams than them in recent seasons.
		
Click to expand...

Hahahahahahahaha. 

Palace season ticket holder here, and I do half a dozen away games a year. 

Hodgson's football isn't particularly pretty, but it is pretty effective. Without him over the last 2 seasons, we almost certainly would habd been relegated. Especially so in his first season with us - the job he did was fantastic.


----------



## howbow88 (Jul 23, 2019)

Also, we finished 12th last year and 11th the year before. A bit more than '4 worse teams'


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 23, 2019)

Jensen said:



			That says it all about today's costs when Â£20m is a gamble but not mega expensive.....it's criminal
		
Click to expand...

I agree, bearing in mind a Â£54m deal was agreed 12months ago for this player and factor in unproven players are being sold for a lot more in this current climate,Â£20m is a good deal.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 23, 2019)

howbow88 said:



			Hahahahahahahaha.

Palace season ticket holder here, and I do half a dozen away games a year.

Hodgson's football isn't particularly pretty, but it is pretty effective. *Without him over the last 2 seasons, we almost certainly would habd been relegated*. Especially so in his first season with us - the job he did was fantastic.
		
Click to expand...

I don't agree with that, with any other manager you'd be comfortably to half with that squad imo. Luckily the last 2/3seasons theres been at least 4 sides with worse squads than Palace's.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 23, 2019)

Time has come to reset the transfer market as it has got silly

Letâ€™s just move the decimal place back to where it belongs 

Maguire shall cost 8.0 million
Dunk shall cost 4.5 million 

This fekir shall be a gamble at 2.0 million 

Our record signing Haller would be 4.5 million just over half of the 7.5 million we paid for Ashton who had premier league Experience and English tax.. about right

Neymar can cost a world record 20 million 

All shall be right again


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 23, 2019)

howbow88 said:



			Hahahahahahahaha.

Palace season ticket holder here, and I do half a dozen away games a year.

Hodgson's football isn't particularly pretty, but it is pretty effective. Without him over the last 2 seasons, we almost certainly would habd been relegated. Especially so in his first season with us - the job he did was fantastic.
		
Click to expand...

Not particularly pretty? Watched them live at Goodison last season and they were dreadful. Clearly came with 1 objective, to steal a point, played unbelievably negatively with Zaha the only stand-out player at all going forward. With Wan Bissaka gone already, and it looking like Zaha also moving on, it's going to be a very tough season for Palace, especially as I don't believe they have the pulling power to adequately replace those two players.


----------



## howbow88 (Jul 23, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I don't agree with that, with any other manager you'd be comfortably to half with that squad imo. Luckily the last 2/3seasons theres been at least 4 sides with worse squads than Palace's.
		
Click to expand...

Hahahahaha


----------



## howbow88 (Jul 23, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Not particularly pretty? Watched them live at Goodison last season and they were dreadful. Clearly came with 1 objective, to steal a point, played unbelievably negatively with Zaha the only stand-out player at all going forward. With Wan Bissaka gone already, and it looking like Zaha also moving on, it's going to be a very tough season for Palace, especially as I don't believe they have the pulling power to adequately replace those two players.
		
Click to expand...

In fairness, you've picked the very worst game of last season  

Our issue is that besides Zaha, we are fairly blunt going forward. Defensively we're pretty solid and Guaita seems like a heck of a signing on a free. In the midfield, again we are solid but unspectacular. McArthur is very underrated - a proper worker and pops up with the odd goal too. 

Meyer might be the one to help us unlock more teams, but he wasn't particularly amazing last year.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 23, 2019)

howbow88 said:



			In fairness, you've picked the very worst game of last season 

Our issue is that besides Zaha, we are fairly blunt going forward. Defensively we're pretty solid and *Guaita seems like a heck of a signing on a free*. In the midfield, again we are solid but unspectacular. McArthur is very underrated - a proper worker and pops up with the odd goal too.

Meyer might be the one to help us unlock more teams, but he wasn't particularly amazing last year.
		
Click to expand...

What happened with him though? Was he injured when you signed him? Because he didn't play for ages did he?


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 23, 2019)

I need the season to start so I stop tinkering my Fantasy team. I think I've settled on my team and then completely overhaul it the next day. I need to pick and settle on a team.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 23, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			I need the season to start so I stop tinkering my Fantasy team. I think I've settled on my team and then completely overhaul it the next day. I need to pick and settle on a team.
		
Click to expand...

Ha, I started mine the other week. Problem is when a transfer is confirmed I go back on to see what value they've given him and if he's worth putting in the side, and then I'm changing it all over again.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 23, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Ha, I started mine the other week. Problem is when a transfer is confirmed I go back on to see what value they've given him and if he's worth putting in the side, and then I'm changing it all over again.
		
Click to expand...

Haha yep same here. At the minute my main dilemma is KDB vs Sterling. KDB gives me more options in terms of depth and a better GK and strikers, but Sterling has more potential for mega points. Decisions, decisions, decisions.


----------



## Wolf (Jul 23, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Ha, I started mine the other week. Problem is when a transfer is confirmed I go back on to see what value they've given him and if he's worth putting in the side, and then I'm changing it all over again.
		
Click to expand...

Do we have a GM fantasy league ðŸ¤”


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 23, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Haha yep same here. At the minute my main dilemma is KDB vs Sterling. KDB gives me more options in terms of depth and a better GK and strikers, but Sterling has more potential for mega points. Decisions, decisions, decisions.
		
Click to expand...

I actually have KDB in mine. He's cheaper but only because he missed a lot of last season (hence less points), I think he has the potential to score the same if not more points than Sterling.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 23, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Do we have a GM fantasy league ðŸ¤”
		
Click to expand...

There was one last year but whoever created it hasn't renewed it for this season yet.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 23, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I actually have KDB in mine. He's cheaper but only because he missed a lot of last season (hence less points), I think he has the potential to score the same if not more points than Sterling.
		
Click to expand...

Think I'm going to go KDB, as you say back to full fitness will make a big difference, and has apparently been very good in pre-season so far. The other big benefit to getting KDB in is that I don't have to have Murray up front


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 23, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			There was one last year but whoever created it hasn't renewed it for this season yet.
		
Click to expand...

This needs to be changed! Lol


----------



## Wolf (Jul 23, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			This needs to be changed! Lol
		
Click to expand...

I agree I'll have a look into it.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 23, 2019)

https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/threads/barclays-fantasy-football-prem-18-19.99222/ 

@Wolf @pauljames87


----------



## Slime (Jul 23, 2019)

dronfield said:



*Does that mean that Dean Henderson can finally complete his season long loan to us again - was great last year.*
Blades are spending some money of late, but hoping to not suddenly have to find a new goalie.

Rich
		
Click to expand...

I hope so, that'd be good for all concerned.


----------



## howbow88 (Jul 23, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			What happened with him though? Was he injured when you signed him? Because he didn't play for ages did he?
		
Click to expand...

He wasn't fully fit at some points, didn't overly impress in league cup games, and Hodgson was very loyal to the fairly inept Wayne Hennessey. Thankfully, he played more in the second half of the season and looks like a very good shot stopper.


----------



## Slab (Jul 24, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Time has come to reset the transfer market as it has got silly

Letâ€™s just move the decimal place back to where it belongs

Maguire shall cost 8.0 million
Dunk shall cost 4.5 million

This fekir shall be a gamble at 2.0 million

Our record signing Haller would be 4.5 million just over half of the 7.5 million we paid for Ashton who had premier league Experience and English tax.. about right

Neymar can cost a world record 20 million

All shall be right again
		
Click to expand...

Sounds good but need to follow it with; 
Premier League only get 500m for tv rights
Sky only need to charge Â£10pm for sports pack
Season tickets are a couple hundred
Replica kits are worth a tenner
The best players will still get 100 grand a month in wages 

Every fan in the country is happy as they have more disposable income  


However the only person with the power to make it happen is 'every fan in the country'.... and unfortunately they just wont


----------



## Slab (Jul 24, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			I'd Tierney has the potential to be as good as Robertson, but not at that level yet, needs to prove it in a top league. Tough break for him really, being a Scottish LB at the same time as Robertson, and for Scotland as well, as they've got one world class and one potentially world class player and they both play the same position.
		
Click to expand...




BrianM said:



			A better left back than Robertson, what are you smoking ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£
Once heâ€™s proved himself in arguably the toughest league in the world and the Champions League, then you can start comparing.
Thereâ€™s not a better left back than Andy Robertson at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

Gents I know this isn't specifically what you were discussing but help me out here. Iâ€™ll happily admit there are significant gaps in my football knowledge and this is one of them. What is it that players needs to _â€˜doâ€™_ in the premier league to _â€˜prove themselvesâ€™_? What makes the premier league the _toughest_ in the world that it requires players to achieve â€˜somethingâ€™ there? (which most players donâ€™t) before theyâ€™ve succeeded 

Is it that they need to win something? Then statistically most players in the premier league fail dismally at this. Their value should plummet, yet run of the mill PL clubs are selling these unsuccessful players on to the bigger clubs for tens of millions. Players are even heading into run of the mill/mediocre PL clubs from all over the world for tens of millions each (players, who by this definition, havenâ€™t proved themselves!)

As one example, what is it about playing (& not consistently winning) for a club such as Crystal Palace that makes Wilfried Zahaâ€™s value to be many tens of millions. What has he proved or achieved in several years of playing in the PL, the answer seems to be zip/nada/nowt. Yet clubs are bickering about numbers in the 40-80 million range!

In the PL the only chance clubs like Palace (& most others) have to win anything at all is in the cups, yet this fella can barely get a game in either cup in the last three years. His biggest achievement with Palace appears to be a runners up medal 4 years ago. Itâ€™s not even as if the guys good for 20 goals a season (or has even shown any inkling thatâ€™s within reach in future) 

In short what has he _done _or _proved_ in the Premier League?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 24, 2019)

In terms of Zaha he has shown that even in a poor team, ie with minimal assistance, he can beat players, he can create chances, he can win penalties, he can score goals. Players like that are rare. There are plenty of workhorses in the PL, creative players are harder to find. If he can do that in a poor team what could he do with better players to finish his chances, give him more space, supply him with better passes?

The gamble for bigger clubs is whether he can transfer that to a team that will likely give him less leeway or freedom to roam, be more structured.

He hasn't won medals but that is unlikely at the club he is at so his value is not linked to medals. His value is screwy but is just how it is.

Compare this to the lad just bought by Newcastle for Â£40m. He has not played in the PL before,  will he cope with the pace, the physical aspect etc. That is a gamble, he is untested in what is quite a tough league to settle in. At least with Zaha you know what he can do in this league.


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 24, 2019)

I've always wanted Zaha to really show his talent after he broke onto the scene years ago. Sadly after watching him numerous times on the TV he looks like a bit of a show pony with no real end product. Im probably wrong lol but all I've seen is...get ball, try fancy turn, fall over, look for free kick...get ball, try and take three people on, lose ball, look for free kick.
There's loads of these types in the Prem already, Lingard at Man Utd springs straight to mind, flatters to deceive and effectively has very little end product.
If he really was any good he'd have been playing at a big club years ago.
There I said it ðŸ˜…


----------



## howbow88 (Jul 24, 2019)

The guy is worth Â£80mil because of two things:

The market is insane. Harry Maguire will go for that sort of money, and he's a half decent centre back. Zaha is a rare talent and has *proven* for a few seasons now that he can play well in the Premier League. 

If we sell him, we will need to replace him with someone who is at least not bad, or we will go down. Staying up is worth a lot more than even Â£80mil. 

As an aside, he's never likely to get you 20 goals a season because he is predominantly a winger...


----------



## howbow88 (Jul 24, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			I've always wanted Zaha to really show his talent after he broke onto the scene years ago. Sadly after watching him numerous times on the TV he looks like a bit of a show pony with no real end product. Im probably wrong lol but all I've seen is...get ball, try fancy turn, fall over, look for free kick...get ball, try and take three people on, lose ball, look for free kick.
There's loads of these types in the Prem already, Lingard at Man Utd springs straight to mind, flatters to deceive and effectively has very little end product.
If he really was any good he'd have been playing at a big club years ago.
There I said it ðŸ˜…
		
Click to expand...

He is better than that but I can see why if you don't watch him week in week out, he can give off that impression. 

The goal he set up against Bournemouth at the very end of last season was magnificent. The last one on here:


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 24, 2019)

One thing that Zaha doesn't get enough credit for is how strong he is and how difficult it is to get the ball off him. When I watched Palace at Goodison last season he frustrated us the whole game, couldn't get the ball off him and he did a fantastic job holding the ball up and creating attacks and chances. He was impressive and think if he had some decent service he could be a very solid performer and put away a good few goals.


----------



## howbow88 (Jul 24, 2019)

His composure in front of goal isn't the best, and he loses his rag when things don't go his way. We get a lot of penalties as a team, but the truth is that we should arguably get a few more. 

With VAR coming in, he will definitely get more penalties awarded.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 24, 2019)

Perhaps players values have gone up so much because no PL clubs have to sell to keep going as they get so much now from the tv deals.
The days of PL clubs needing to sell to invest are gone.


----------



## Slab (Jul 24, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			In terms of Zaha he has shown that even in a poor team, ie with minimal assistance, he can beat players, he can create chances, he can win penalties, he can score goals. Players like that are rare. There are plenty of workhorses in the PL, creative players are harder to find. If he can do that in a poor team what could he do with better players to finish his chances, give him more space, supply him with better passes?

The gamble for bigger clubs is whether he can transfer that to a team that will likely give him less leeway or freedom to roam, be more structured.

He hasn't won medals but that is unlikely at the club he is at so his value is not linked to medals. His value is screwy but is just how it is.

Compare this to the lad just bought by Newcastle for Â£40m. He has not played in the PL before,  will he cope with the pace, the physical aspect etc. That is a gamble, he is untested in what is quite a tough league to settle in. At least with Zaha you know what he can do in this league.
		
Click to expand...


Iâ€™m not having a go at Palace or the player. Itâ€™s this often quoted perception that the premier league is somehow the best/toughest when itâ€™s just not. And also that players somehow have to play in it to prove something (the Man U boss said himself that the Palace player he got for 50mil a few weeks back was prob the best _â€˜up & comingâ€™_ player. He hasnâ€™t done squat in the PL yet other than show sufficient potential for Man U to take a risk)

Re toughest league; 70% of the entrants each year arenâ€™t even in the league competition from day 1. They are literally no-hopers. After the first Â¼ of games another 10-15% can be dismissed. The league title is at best only between 15% of the clubs (20%in a good year) so each club then has a 33% chance of winning the league or 1 in 3, how is that the toughest league?
Most of the entrants are no-hopers, most of the 'competition' just isn't competition

Look at the odds, West Ham spent 45mil on a single player and they are 500-1 and theyâ€™re not even close to being the outside bet! Or is 'toughest/best' just another way of saying uncompetitive? 

Back to Zaha, you say he's in a poor team which I get... but isn't 80% of his games currently played against other poor teams (teams also with no hope of winning the league, just like his team) so why should he still struggle to reach double figures for goals and by what measure is beating players and creating chances against these poor teams (even when you're in a poor team yourself) somehow proving himself?
Anyway even if he did move to a good team then surely 80% of his games will still be against these same poor teams that he under-performs against now (which the good team are already beating without him anyway)


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 24, 2019)

Slab said:



			Gents I know this isn't specifically what you were discussing but help me out here. Iâ€™ll happily admit there are significant gaps in my football knowledge and this is one of them. What is it that players needs to _â€˜doâ€™_ in the premier league to _â€˜prove themselvesâ€™_? What makes the premier league the _toughest_ in the world that it requires players to achieve â€˜somethingâ€™ there? (which most players donâ€™t) before theyâ€™ve succeeded

Is it that they need to win something? Then statistically most players in the premier league fail dismally at this. Their value should plummet, yet run of the mill PL clubs are selling these unsuccessful players on to the bigger clubs for tens of millions. Players are even heading into run of the mill/mediocre PL clubs from all over the world for tens of millions each (players, who by this definition, havenâ€™t proved themselves!)

As one example, what is it about playing (& not consistently winning) for a club such as Crystal Palace that makes Wilfried Zahaâ€™s value to be many tens of millions. What has he proved or achieved in several years of playing in the PL, the answer seems to be zip/nada/nowt. Yet clubs are bickering about numbers in the 40-80 million range!

In the PL the only chance clubs like Palace (& most others) have to win anything at all is in the cups, yet this fella can barely get a game in either cup in the last three years. His biggest achievement with Palace appears to be a runners up medal 4 years ago. Itâ€™s not even as if the guys good for 20 goals a season (or has even shown any inkling thatâ€™s within reach in future)

In short what has he _done _or _proved_ in the Premier League?
		
Click to expand...

In my view proving yourself in the Prem just means playing consistently well for a long period of time, say one whole season as a minimum. i.e. Wan-Bissaka did it last season playing exceptionally well for Palace, and consequently has moved to a 'big six' club. If you're playing in the Prem you're playing in the strongest league in the world against many of the world's best players, so if you play well there big clubs know it is not too much of a gamble to spend big money on you. It's not about winning trophies because this is a team game but we're talking about judging individual players - individuals don't trophies on their own (player of the month/year aside). 

In the case of Zaha, I wouldn't say he's proven he's one of the best in the league or anything, but he has proven he can put in good performances against Premier League opposition, and that's what you want from your player week in week out. I mean he only really scored against the poorer teams, but 3 weeks out of 5 those are the teams you're playing anyway.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 24, 2019)

Slab said:



			Re toughest league; 70% of the entrants each year arenâ€™t even in the league competition from day 1. They are literally no-hopers. After the first Â¼ of games another 10-15% can be dismissed. The league title is at best only between 15% of the clubs (20%in a good year) so each club then has a 33% chance of winning the league or 1 in 3, how is that the toughest league?
Most of the entrants are no-hopers, most of the 'competition' just isn't competition

Look at the odds, West Ham spent 45mil on a single player and they are 500-1 and theyâ€™re not even close to being the outside bet! Or is 'toughest/best' just another way of saying uncompetitive? 

Back to Zaha, you say he's in a poor team which I get... but isn't 80% of his games currently played against other poor teams (teams also with no hope of winning the league, just like his team) so why should he still struggle to reach double figures for goals and by what measure is beating players and creating chances against these poor teams (even when you're in a poor team yourself) somehow proving himself?
Anyway even if he did move to a good team then surely 80% of his games will still be against these same poor teams that he under-performs against now (which the good team are already beating without him anyway) 

Click to expand...

I think you're a bit wide of the mark here. In my view the Prem is the strongest league, because teams that are 16th and 17th here are comparable to the teams that come 8th, 9th, 10th in Germany, Spain, Italy. It's the strength in depth, not just the strength of the teams up the top. 

Your example of West Ham actually proves my point in a way, even the mid-table sides are assembling expensive teams of good players. Hence there are very few easy games in a easy if all the teams have players of that level to deal with.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2019)

Slab said:



			Iâ€™m not having a go at Palace or the player. Itâ€™s this often quoted perception that the premier league is somehow the best/toughest when itâ€™s just not. And also that players somehow have to play in it to prove something (the Man U boss said himself that the Palace player he got for 50mil a few weeks back was prob the best _â€˜up & comingâ€™_ player. He hasnâ€™t done squat in the PL yet other than show sufficient potential for Man U to take a risk)

Re toughest league; 70% of the entrants each year arenâ€™t even in the league competition from day 1. They are literally no-hopers. After the first Â¼ of games another 10-15% can be dismissed. The league title is at best only between 15% of the clubs (20%in a good year) so each club then has a 33% chance of winning the league or 1 in 3, how is that the toughest league?
Most of the entrants are no-hopers, most of the 'competition' just isn't competition

Look at the odds, West Ham spent 45mil on a single player and they are 500-1 and theyâ€™re not even close to being the outside bet! Or is 'toughest/best' just another way of saying uncompetitive? 

Back to Zaha, you say he's in a poor team which I get... but isn't 80% of his games currently played against other poor teams (teams also with no hope of winning the league, just like his team) so why should he still struggle to reach double figures for goals and by what measure is beating players and creating chances against these poor teams (even when you're in a poor team yourself) somehow proving himself?
Anyway even if he did move to a good team then surely 80% of his games will still be against these same poor teams that he under-performs against now (which the good team are already beating without him anyway) 

Click to expand...

Which league is tougher than the Prem ?

And itâ€™s â€œtoughnessâ€ is not just about winning it - there are three or four big battles going on 

You have the battle to win the league which will be between 6 teams historically- then the battle for top 4 , then the mid table team battle then the one to avoid relegation 

These players are not in â€œpoorâ€ teams - they are still in teams full of internationals and players who have played at the highest level for a number of years , just because they are in a City or Liverpool doesnâ€™t make them a poor team - every team has a battle throughout the season and each player will be testing themselves against some of the best in the world 

The depth of competition within the Prem is very strong and most of the team itâ€™s because of the money on offer 

The likes of PSG , Madrid and Barcelona may have the superstars but in leagues where 90% of the games are just a stroll and non existent


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 24, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Your example of West Ham actually proves my point in a way, even the mid-table sides are assembling expensive teams of good players. Hence there are very few easy games in a easy if all the teams have players of that level to deal with.
		
Click to expand...

Alternatively, these mid/low table Prem teams are paying way over the odds for above average players, all in a desperate attempt to avoid relegation.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 24, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			Alternatively, these mid/low table Prem teams are paying way over the odds for above average players, all in a desperate attempt to avoid relegation.
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure they are, but that still doesn't mean what I said was wrong.


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 24, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I'm sure they are, but that still doesn't mean what I said was wrong.
		
Click to expand...

We could contest the "good players" bit of you want? ðŸ˜…


----------



## Slab (Jul 24, 2019)

Orikoru said:



*I think you're a bit wide of the mark here. In my view the Prem is the strongest league, because teams that are 16th and 17th here are comparable to the teams that come 8th, 9th, 10th in Germany, Spain, Italy. It's the strength in depth, not just the strength of the teams up the top.*

Your example of West Ham actually proves my point in a way, even the mid-table sides are assembling expensive teams of good players. Hence there are very few easy games in a easy if all the teams have players of that level to deal with.
		
Click to expand...

You might well be right, this is pretty much what I was asking. But how do we know this. Whats to stop bundesliga fans making the same claim?


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 24, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			We could contest the "good players" bit of you want? ðŸ˜…
		
Click to expand...

The point is you don't see bottom half teams abroad throwing this kind of money around to assemble squads like that do you?


----------



## Slab (Jul 24, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Which league is tougher than the Prem ?*

And itâ€™s â€œtoughnessâ€ is not just about winning it - there are three or four big battles going on

You have the battle to win the league which will be between 6 teams historically- then the battle for top 4 , then the mid table team battle then the one to avoid relegation

*These players are not in â€œpoorâ€ teams - *they are still in teams full of internationals and players who have played at the highest level for a number of years , just because they are in a City or Liverpool doesnâ€™t make them a poor team - every team has a battle throughout the season and each player will be testing themselves against some of the best in the world

The depth of competition within the Prem is very strong and most of the team itâ€™s because of the money on offer

The likes of PSG , Madrid and Barcelona may have the superstars but in leagues where 90% of the games are just a stroll and non existent
		
Click to expand...

Shouldn't it be which league is the PL tougher than? (I'm not the one making the claim)

But if you mean tougher to win I agree, it is indeed very tough to win/un-competitive, just as I said in the post 

And with 70% of clubs having no chance of winning then the players are therefore absolutely in poor or inadequate teams for the competition they are playing in. How can that be disputed

But most teams aren't trying to win it are they, they are simply trying to survive. And part of that survival will be battles in mid table/relegation as you say. Not much of a CV to stake the claim of toughest/best, just like pretty much every team in every other top division around the world 



Orikoru said:



			Your example of West Ham actually proves my point in a way, even the mid-table sides are assembling expensive teams of good players. Hence there are very few easy games in a easy if all the teams have players of that level to deal with.
		
Click to expand...


Does it matter if West Ham could take Schalke to the cleaners, they're not in a comp against Schalke


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 24, 2019)

Slab said:



			Does it matter if West Ham could take Schalke to the cleaners, they're not in a comp against Schalke 

Click to expand...

Well no but we're talking about relative quality of the leagues. So a typical season for Barcelona, they might have 4 really tough games, 6-8 challenging ones and over 20 where they expect to stuff the opposition. Whereas City for example, the ratio is more like 8 or so tough games, 10 challenging ones and 15+ stuffings. If everything went as expected of course.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 25, 2019)

Lookman's gone to RB Leipzig. Â£22.5m. Feel like that is a move we're going to regret. Didn't get anywhere near the chances he deserved last season and should be starting ahead of Walcott at RW. He's got so much potential, is so talented and already very good on the ball. Maybe needs slightly better end-product, but we should have tried harder to keep him.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 25, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Lookman's gone to RB Leipzig. Â£22.5m. Feel like that is a move we're going to regret. Didn't get anywhere near the chances he deserved last season and should be starting ahead of Walcott at RW. He's got so much potential, is so talented and already very good on the ball. Maybe needs slightly better end-product, but we should have tried harder to keep him.
		
Click to expand...

I haven't seen enough of him but it was clearly coming to a point where we either play him or sell him. I think Walcott looked a busted flush last year and Lookman would be the obvious replacement but Silva clearly doesn't think enough of him. Considering we aren't playing him the fee is a good one. Hopefully we have a buy back clause or get a % of the sell on if he does take off. Ideally we would have loaned him out until Christmas to a Championship club where he would have played every week and we could really see what he could do.


----------



## fundy (Jul 25, 2019)

Seems like Ceballos has joined Arsenal on loan for the season  Looks promising, lets hope hes not the next Dennis Suarez


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 25, 2019)

Surprised Real let him go in the end given Asensio went off injured the other day with a suspected knee injury.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 25, 2019)

Loving the look of the proposed new Everton stadium

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-49109807


----------



## fundy (Jul 25, 2019)

Seems someone tried to carjack Ozil and Kolasinac in North London today


----------



## Slime (Jul 25, 2019)

Utd winning 2-1 vs Spurs in a very feisty encounter.


----------



## hairball_89 (Jul 25, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Loving the look of the proposed new Everton stadium

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-49109807

Click to expand...

Really? Looks like a carbon copy of pretty much every new stadium in the country to me. Boring cut and paste 2 tier bowl, with a single tier home end for 'added atmosphere'... Why do you need to add atmosphere? it should be there already!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 25, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Loving the look of the proposed new Everton stadium

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-49109807

Click to expand...

If this actually happens then I will be very happy. It looks great. Long way to go though, no blue will be holding their breath over this.


----------



## Fish (Jul 26, 2019)

fundy said:



			Seems someone tried to carjack Ozil and Kolasinac in North London today
		
Click to expand...

Must be the first time youâ€™ve seen Kolasinac actually defend ðŸ˜œ


----------



## fundy (Jul 26, 2019)

Fish said:



			Must be the first time youâ€™ve seen Kolasinac actually defend ðŸ˜œ
		
Click to expand...

as i said on the other thread, Ozil was just glad it wasnt Mustafi in the passengers seat


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 26, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If this actually happens then I will be very happy. It looks great. Long way to go though, no blue will be holding their breath over this.
		
Click to expand...

Always issues when new stadium plans are announced and no doubt they'll be all sort of objections and reviews. I was merely commenting on the basis of the plans released and think it looks a great design unlike a lot of grounds these days that all look very similar


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 26, 2019)

Interesting concept but can hardly see viewing figures for a preliminary tie making headlines https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49130118


----------



## Fish (Jul 26, 2019)

fundy said:



			as i said on the other thread, Ozil was just glad it wasnt Mustafi in the passengers seat 

Click to expand...

I found that thread after Iâ€™d posted.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 26, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Always issues when new stadium plans are announced and no doubt they'll be all sort of objections and reviews. I was merely commenting on the basis of the plans released and think it looks a great design unlike a lot of grounds these days that all look very similar
		
Click to expand...

The whole new stadium thing has been going on for years. We have had many false dawns, proposals, designs. This looks like it could be for real but even so ........................

I agree about the design. In the lead up to this they put a lot of research into grounds with atmosphere, grounds where the fans feel part of it still. They didn't want to just buy an off the shelf, generic stadium. This will also be a striking centrepiece for the whole regeneration project.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 26, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Always issues when new stadium plans are announced and *no doubt they'll be all sort of objections and reviews. *I was merely commenting on the basis of the plans released and think it looks a great design unlike a lot of grounds these days that all look very similar
		
Click to expand...

The land theyâ€™re building on is owned by Peel Holdings, thereâ€™ll be no objections regards to build as itâ€™s on derelict ground and the local council have already ear marked Â£20m to regenerate the area with new roads bus lanes etc. The council have started working on that area upgrading roads etc.

The only issue I see is Everton not getting the funding thatâ€™s needed to pay for the build. As much as I dislike them, I hope all goes well and they get their brand new stadium, it would be great to see it half empty every week ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 26, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The land theyâ€™re building on is owned by Peel Holdings, thereâ€™ll be no objections regards to build as itâ€™s on derelict ground and the local council have already ear marked Â£20m to regenerate the area with new roads bus lanes etc. The council have started working on that area upgrading roads etc.

The only issue I see is Everton not getting the funding thatâ€™s needed to pay for the build. As much as I dislike them, I hope all goes well and they get their brand new stadium, it would be great to see it half empty every week ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

The Radio Adverts for ST's will run for a while


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 26, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The land theyâ€™re building on is owned by Peel Holdings, thereâ€™ll be no objections regards to build as itâ€™s on derelict ground and the local council have already ear marked Â£20m to regenerate the area with new roads bus lanes etc. The council have started working on that area upgrading roads etc.

The only issue I see is Everton not getting the funding thatâ€™s needed to pay for the build. As much as I dislike them, I hope all goes well and they get their brand new stadium, it would be great to see it half empty every week ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for filling in the gaps. Any idea where the funding is suppose to be coming from


----------



## IainP (Jul 26, 2019)

Looks like Bale is off to China then for a few shekels


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 26, 2019)

IainP said:



			Looks like Bale is off to China then for a few shekels
		
Click to expand...

Apparently only worth 22million Euros per year https://www.skysports.com/transfer-centre


----------



## User62651 (Jul 26, 2019)

Re Bale he is the forgotten man. Might be making a fortune but from where he was when he left Spurs, his career has never really taken off at club level, 1 good season then injuries and subs bench. 1 decent tournament with Wales.
Hasn't tried to learn Spanish, doesn't socialise with fellow players apparently.
To me he seems like a true mercenary driven by nothing but money. Appalling once Ronaldo left RM when he could have stepped up.
Some great goals but ultimately a big let down for 85 million..i agree with Zidane, he's a bad fit, get rid.
Career unfulfilled imo given the talent.
I blame that top knot, has been his downfall.


----------



## Wolf (Jul 26, 2019)

Well if that deal for Bale comes off it proves what I was saying that he isn't wanted by top clubs and that the next their simply cant justify the spend. 

Supremely wasted player through his own choices off the pitch. Refuses to learn Spanish, won't take a pay cut so he has no choice but to chase the money now in China where off the pitch he will be even further alienated. Much harder to learn mandarin than Spanish but at Â£1m a week tax free I guess he doesn't care. 

He is endemic of the way the game is going now, players get a big money move and that's it they're made don't need to keep playing just watch the balance grow.


----------



## hairball_89 (Jul 27, 2019)

Wolf said:



			...He is endemic of the way the game is going now, players get a big money move and that's it they're made don't need to keep playing just watch the balance grow.
		
Click to expand...

Not just the top players. At Liverpool, and presumably the same for the rest of the bigger teams, we've got 17/18 yr old kids on Â£10,000 a week. Now, obviously in football terms that's bugger all. But for most of us "normal" folk, I couldn't earn half that annual salary if I replaced the guy that runs the company I work for, let a lone the average guy in my industry!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2019)

maxfli65 said:



			Re Bale he is the forgotten man. Might be making a fortune but from where he was when he left Spurs, his career has never really taken off at club level, 1 good season then injuries and subs bench. 1 decent tournament with Wales.
Hasn't tried to learn Spanish, doesn't socialise with fellow players apparently.
To me he seems like a true mercenary driven by nothing but money. Appalling once Ronaldo left RM when he could have stepped up.
Some great goals but ultimately a big let down for 85 million..i agree with Zidane, he's a bad fit, get rid.
Career unfulfilled imo given the talent.
I blame that top knot, has been his downfall.

Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Sorry but thatâ€™s all nonsense- 1 good season ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸

I would suggest actually checking his record at Madrid before spouting that

Bale was key to the club winning 4 CLs , as well as a Title and some cups

His goal scoring record whilst at Madrid was beaten by only Ronaldo .

The whole team suffered when Ronaldo left with the constant changing of managers and then Zidane putting him on the bench but still he kept coming off it and winning games for him

Itâ€™s just plain wrong to suggest he had one good season and a career unfulfilled there. Factually wrong


Wolf said:



*Well if that deal for Bale comes off it proves what I was saying that he isn't wanted by top clubs and that the next their simply cant justify the spend.*

Supremely wasted player through his own choices off the pitch. Refuses to learn Spanish, won't take a pay cut so he has no choice but to chase the money now in China where off the pitch he will be even further alienated. Much harder to learn mandarin than Spanish but at Â£1m a week tax free I guess he doesn't care.

He is endemic of the way the game is going now, players get a big money move and that's it they're made don't need to keep playing just watch the balance grow.
		
Click to expand...

It only proves that Madrid pay their players a lot of money and that other clubs canâ€™t and wonâ€™t match the wages he was given - there is no doubt he would be wanted by many top clubs but none of them can justify paying the wages Madrid do. And why the hell should he take a pay cut ? Would you ?

And wasted player ?! Just complete nonsense


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49073162


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 27, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49073162[/QUOTE]
Bale ha


Liverpoolphil said:



			ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Sorry but thatâ€™s all nonsense- 1 good season ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸

I would suggest actually checking his record at Madrid before spouting that

Bale was key to the club winning 4 CLs , *as well as a Title* and some cups

His goal scoring record whilst at Madrid was beaten by only Ronaldo .

The whole team suffered when Ronaldo left with the constant changing of managers and then Zidane putting him on the bench but still he kept coming off it and winning games for him

Itâ€™s just plain wrong to suggest he had one good season and a career unfulfilled there. Factually wrong


It only proves that Madrid pay their players a lot of money and that other clubs canâ€™t and wonâ€™t match the wages he was given - there is no doubt he would be wanted by many top clubs but none of them can justify paying the wages Madrid do. And why the hell should he take a pay cut ? Would you ?

And wasted player ?! Just complete nonsense


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49073162

Click to expand...

Bale may well have  a few CL and Copa del Rey medals, but he has not won La Liga with RM.
I don't like RM or the way they behave, but Bale hasn't tried to fit in and is too full of his self importance.
If he though was really interested in playing competetive football, he would have adjusted his wage demands and had a long line of clubs wanting to take him, but instead he has priced himself out of the European game.


----------



## ger147 (Jul 27, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Bale may well have  a few CL and Copa del Rey medals, but he has not won La Liga with RM...
		
Click to expand...

He won the La Liga title with Real Madrid in 2017.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 27, 2019)

ger147 said:



			He won the La Liga title with Real Madrid in 2017.
		
Click to expand...

Apologies and stand corrected I missed that one.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 27, 2019)

Baleâ€™s stats largely stack up favourably against a certain Zinedine Zidaneâ€™s at Real Madrid. Perhaps ZZ is yet another manager who canâ€™t handle the best players...


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 27, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Baleâ€™s stats largely stack up favourably against a certain Zinedine Zidaneâ€™s at Real Madrid. Perhaps ZZ is yet another manager who canâ€™t handle the best players...
		
Click to expand...

Yeah just the the 3 Champions League wins for ZZ as a manager ðŸ¤·â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤£


----------



## Wolf (Jul 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Sorry but thatâ€™s all nonsense- 1 good season ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸

I would suggest actually checking his record at Madrid before spouting that

Bale was key to the club winning 4 CLs , as well as a Title and some cups

His goal scoring record whilst at Madrid was beaten by only Ronaldo .

The whole team suffered when Ronaldo left with the constant changing of managers and then Zidane putting him on the bench but still he kept coming off it and winning games for him

Itâ€™s just plain wrong to suggest he had one good season and a career unfulfilled there. Factually wrong


It only proves that Madrid pay their players a lot of money and that other clubs canâ€™t and wonâ€™t match the wages he was given - there is no doubt he would be wanted by many top clubs but none of them can justify paying the wages Madrid do. And why the hell should he take a pay cut ? Would you ?

And wasted player ?! Just complete nonsense


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49073162

Click to expand...

Stand by my quote. Yes he's had some success at Madrid but he should still be at the height of his career and by going to China now he is wasting his talent for chasing the coin.. 

Doesn't matter what link you post to prove your point. He could take a pay cut and go to a team that could compete in a different league.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 27, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Stand by my quote. Yes he's had some success at Madrid but he should still be at the height of his career and by going to China now he is wasting his talent for chasing the coin..

Doesn't matter what link you post to prove your point. He could take a pay cut and go to a team that could compete in a different league.
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™d definitely be chasing the coin,all Â£1m p/w of them to play in China.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Stand by my quote. Yes he's had some success at Madrid but he should still be at the height of his career and by going to China now he is wasting his talent for chasing the coin..

Doesn't matter what link you post to prove your point. He could take a pay cut and go to a team that could compete in a different league.
		
Click to expand...

Some success ?! He is the most successful British export into European football both in terms of trophies won and goals scored and the link proves that fact - itâ€™s not a point itâ€™s a fact

He is 30 now and no one would take a pay cut especially when it would be such big pay cut so fair play to him. He isnâ€™t chasing the coin at all - he would prefer to stay at Madrid but they clearly donâ€™t want him and if he was offered a contract where he didnâ€™t lose so much wages he would have taken it - but he was on 600k a week in Madrid , how much do you really think a club in the Prem could pay him

Not one single one of us would take the pay cut he would have to take especially when there is Â£1mil a week on offer


----------



## Piece (Jul 27, 2019)

Looks like Bale is getting out of the Real sinking ship...stuffed 7-3 by Atletico yesterday. 

Personally Iâ€™d like to see Bale back in the Premier tearing it up before he gets too old. Then go to China and milk it. However when youâ€™ve done what you can at club level winning all those medals, and get offered a million a week, then why not.


----------



## Slime (Jul 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Some success ?! He is the most successful British export into European football both in terms of trophies won and goals scored and the link proves that fact - itâ€™s not a point itâ€™s a fact

He is 30 now and no one would take a pay cut especially when it would be such big pay cut so fair play to him. He isnâ€™t chasing the coin at all - *he would prefer to stay at Madrid* but they clearly donâ€™t want him and if he was offered a contract where he didnâ€™t lose so much wages he would have taken it - but he was on 600k a week in Madrid , how much do you really think a club in the Prem could pay him

*Not one single one of us would take the pay cut he would have to take especially when there is Â£1mil a week on offer*

Click to expand...

................ and get Â£600k per week to play golf, of course he'd prefer to stay at Madrid.

You can only speak for yourself, don't be so presumptious.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2019)

Slime said:



			................ and get Â£600k per week to play golf, of course he'd prefer to stay at Madrid.

You can only speak for yourself, don't be so presumptious.
		
Click to expand...

You really think Bale would prefer to just play golf as opposed to playing football 


And yes I do think no one would take the pay cut that he would have to take especially when there is a pay rise on offer 

Do you really think people would take a Â£400k a week pay cut instead of a rise to Â£1mil a week ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 27, 2019)

Bale is mega rich already. In 2 to 3 years when his legs are going he could go to the USA or China and top up his pension. To do that now when he is in his prime still is quite sad. Where is the ambition, the desire? He goes there and in effect he has retired, his time there will not count.

People talk about would you take a pay cut? Look at the sums involved. If he went to a Bayern or PL club he would still be on top money, big bonuses etc and would have a heck of a nicer lifestyle than moving to China.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Bale is mega rich already. In 2 to 3 years when his legs are going he could go to the USA or China and top up his pension. To do that now when he is in his prime still is quite sad. Where is the ambition, the desire? He goes there and in effect he has retired, his time there will not count.
		
Click to expand...

I suspect with the level of injuries he has had and considering how long he has been playing I see him past his prime now , he has already achieved more than 90% of players will ever get close too ,whatâ€™s missing for him to do ? He could be massive for Chinese football 




			People talk about would you take a pay cut? Look at the sums involved. If he went to a Bayern or PL club he would still be on top money, big bonuses etc and would have a heck of a nicer lifestyle than moving to China.
		
Click to expand...

He is on Â£600k a week take home in his pocket plus bonuses - clubs in the Prem would even get near paying half that before tax , even Munich wouldnâ€™t pay that but then they are looking at w younger players and he can live a nice lifestyle in China


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 27, 2019)

I don't dispute that he will take a cut in pay but we are talking about someone who would still likely earn Â£10m a year minimum. If his agent has got nous he would get a big payout from Real to bridge some of the gap, 3yrs left on his contract, pay some of it to see him off. How much money does a person need? Where is your quality of life?

I know he could live like king in China but I know someone who has worked there for a while now, it isn't worth it.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't dispute that he will take a cut in pay but we are talking about someone who would still likely earn Â£10m a year minimum. If his agent has got nous he would get a big payout from Real to bridge some of the gap, 3yrs left on his contract, pay some of it to see him off. How much money does a person need? Where is your quality of life?

I know he could live like king in China but I know someone who has worked there for a while now, it isn't worth it.
		
Click to expand...

He currently earns around Â£30mil a year - you really think someone is going to take a Â£20mil a year pay cut when he doesnâ€™t need to and instead can get Â£50mil ?!?
There are loads living in China who no doubt love it - he could and prob will have a great time there.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 27, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't dispute that he will take a cut in pay but we are talking about someone who would still likely earn Â£10m a year minimum. If his agent has got nous he would get a big payout from Real to bridge some of the gap, 3yrs left on his contract, pay some of it to see him off. How much money does a person need? Where is your quality of life?

I know he could live like king in China but I know someone who has worked there for a while now, it isn't worth it.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think a top European club would get anywhere close when FFP is becoming the issue it is, and about time too.
Ultimately RM  flexed their muscles and paid him a rediculous amount on a long contract. Although I don't agree with it, why wouldnt he sit it out for the remaining 3 years to top his pension up, or do as it looks like and head off into the Chinese sun.
He is most certainly overpaid for what he has done for them.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He currently earns around Â£30mil a year - you really think someone is going to take a Â£20mil a year pay cut when he doesnâ€™t need to and instead can get Â£50mil ?!?
There are loads living in China who no doubt love it - he could and prob will have a great time there.
		
Click to expand...

I think it depends what you want out of life. Bale has a young family, taking them to a country with severe air quality problems, party officials 'keeping an eye out' constantly, restriction of information etc is not something I would do, particularly when already utterly minted and he doesn't need to do it. 

His choice, I just think it is a shame when I still think he has something to offer in a proper league.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 27, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think it depends what you want out of life. Bale has a young family, taking them to a country with severe air quality problems, party officials 'keeping an eye out' constantly, restriction of information etc is not something I would do, particularly when already utterly minted and he doesn't need to do it.

His choice, I just think it is a shame when I still think he has something to offer in a proper league.
		
Click to expand...

If itâ€™s true that he hasnâ€™t really tried to fit into the Spanish lifestyle just imagine what heâ€™ll be like in China.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 27, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			If itâ€™s true that he hasnâ€™t really tried to fit into the Spanish lifestyle just imagine what heâ€™ll be like in China.
		
Click to expand...

Oddly enough he may find it easier. They will expect him to live an expat lifestyle out there, no expectation that he will learn the language etc. In Madrid you would not get away that that, not unreasonable, but in China that pressure will not be there. I don't know where this club is that are interested but Shanghai for example is very cosmopolitan and a westerner can live and socialise without having to blend in too much. There are chunks of the year when you can't be outside to breathe the air but that is a minor detail for a footballer who trains and plays outside,  errmmmmm oops ðŸ¤”


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 27, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Oddly enough he may find it easier. They will expect him to live an expat lifestyle out there, no expectation that he will learn the language etc. In Madrid you would not get away that that, not unreasonable, but in China that pressure will not be there. I don't know where this club is that are interested but Shanghai for example is very cosmopolitan and a westerner can live and socialise without having to blend in too much. There are chunks of the year when you can't be outside to breathe the air but that is a minor detail for a footballer who trains and plays outside,  errmmmmm oops ðŸ¤”
		
Click to expand...

Have you been?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 27, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			Have you been?
		
Click to expand...

Friend has been there for 10 yrs. Shanghai for 7, another city, can't spell it, an hour from there since. He teaches out there. The 'party' looms over everything, senior party members over everyone. There are times every summer where the kids are not allowed outside at break times due to the pollution levels. It is not good generally in the cities but in the summer months it becomes very problematic.

I can imagine, if younger and single, that maybe a year or 2 in Shanghai could be an experience. Nothing he has told me about living there tempts me to buy an air ticket to visit never mind live there though.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Thanks for filling in the gaps. Any idea where the funding is suppose to be coming from
		
Click to expand...

I don't know to be honest Homer, I know Moshiri is supposed to be a billionaire.

Knowing Everton though they'll probably end up needing a wonga loan ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 27, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			BiL has been there for 10 yrs. Shanghai for 7, another city, can't spell it, an hour from there since. He teaches out there. The 'party' looms over everything, senior party members over everyone. There are times every summer where the kids are not allowed outside at break times due to the pollution levels. It is not good generally in the cities but in the summer months it becomes very problematic.

I can imagine, if younger and single, that maybe a year or 2 in Shanghai could be an experience. Nothing he has told me about living there tempts me to buy an air ticket to visit never mind live there though.
		
Click to expand...

Sod that!
They can keep their Â£1m p/w.

How does a player like Bale motivate himself to play at such a poor level?

Yeah heâ€™s going to be making stupid money,but the football must be pretty boring.


----------



## sam85 (Jul 27, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			Sod that!
They can keep their Â£1m p/w.

How does a player like Bale motivate himself to play at such a poor level?

Yeah heâ€™s going to be making stupid money,but the football must be pretty boring.
		
Click to expand...

I've often wondered how much difference these huge sums actually make to some of these players lives. I mean how different a life would you live if you "only" earned 15 million a year as opposed to 30.

Surely Bale by now has already earned more money in his career than he could ever spend. Why not take the pay cut and have a couple more years playing in the top leagues in Europe while he still can?


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jul 27, 2019)

Would he even need to take much of a pay cut?  If Real Madrid want rid of him so badly then he could say that he'd go but they would have to subsidise his wages for the length of his contract. He could probably get 250k a week somewhere else and have Madrid pay him the same amount.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 27, 2019)

sam85 said:



			I've often wondered how much difference these huge sums actually make to some of these players lives. I mean how different a life would you live if you "only" earned 15 million a year as opposed to 30.

Surely Bale by now has already earned more money in his career than he could ever spend. Why not take the pay cut and have a couple more years playing in the top leagues in Europe while he still can?
		
Click to expand...

Heâ€™s worth Â£100m+ Iâ€™d guess. 

Â£1m p/w thoðŸ¤·â€â™‚ï¸

Wish I had this predicament


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think it depends what you want out of life. Bale has a young family, taking them to a country with severe air quality problems, party officials 'keeping an eye out' constantly, restriction of information etc is not something I would do, particularly when already utterly minted and he doesn't need to do it.

His choice, I just think it is a shame when I still think he has something to offer in a proper league.
		
Click to expand...

I would have had him at Liverpool in a flash and I suspect our manager would have as well but we couldnâ€™t afford his wages , even going half with Madrid isnâ€™t realistic when you consider the level of tax he gets. 

Even if a club is offering him Â£250k a week which puts him amongst the biggest earners in the Prem he doesnâ€™t get that in his pocket so his pay cut is going to be huge and we donâ€™t know what his outgoings are etc 

He has Â£1mil a week into his pocket on offer - even if he does it just for a year that an opportunity that I suspect no one will turn down , he can live his life how he likes over there because he will be the highest profile sports star to arrive in the country in a league they are trying to enhance - he will be the poster boy and have everything handed to him. 

He has achieved so much on the pitch already - a lot more than some understand or are willing to give him credit for - itâ€™s very easy for people to say â€œtake a pay cutâ€ etc when I very much doubt anyone would take the same level of pay cut


----------



## Fish (Jul 27, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I don't know to be honest Homer, I know Moshiri is supposed to be a billionaire.

Knowing Everton though they'll probably end up needing a wonga loan ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

There are plenty of multi millionaire or greater owners in football, doesnâ€™t necessarily mean theyâ€™ll put their hands in their pockets and play the long game investment wise.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I would have had him at Liverpool in a flash and I suspect our manager would have as well but we couldnâ€™t afford his wages , even going half with Madrid isnâ€™t realistic when you consider the level of tax he gets.

Even if a club is offering him Â£250k a week which puts him amongst the biggest earners in the Prem he doesnâ€™t get that in his pocket so his pay cut is going to be huge and we donâ€™t know what his outgoings are etc

He has Â£1mil a week into his pocket on offer - even if he does it just for a year that an opportunity that I suspect no one will turn down , he can live his life how he likes over there because he will be the highest profile sports star to arrive in the country in a league they are trying to enhance - he will be the poster boy and have everything handed to him.

He has achieved so much on the pitch already - a lot more than some understand or are willing to give him credit for - itâ€™s very easy for people to say â€œtake a pay cutâ€ etc when I very much doubt anyone would take the same level of pay cut
		
Click to expand...

But I reckon some might put their families health first.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I would have had him at Liverpool in a flash and I suspect our manager would have as well but we couldnâ€™t afford his wages , even going half with Madrid isnâ€™t realistic when you consider the level of tax he gets.

Even if a club is offering him Â£250k a week which puts him amongst the biggest earners in the Prem he doesnâ€™t get that in his pocket so his pay cut is going to be huge and we donâ€™t know what his outgoings are etc

He has Â£1mil a week into his pocket on offer - even if he does it just for a year that an opportunity that I suspect no one will turn down , he can live his life how he likes over there because he will be the highest profile sports star to arrive in the country in a league they are trying to enhance - he will be the poster boy and have everything handed to him.

He has achieved so much on the pitch already - a lot more than some understand or are willing to give him credit for - itâ€™s very easy for people to say â€œtake a pay cutâ€ etc when I very much doubt anyone would take the same level of pay cut
		
Click to expand...

If Klopp isn't going to bring Coutino back, he sure as well won't buy Bale.....thank god.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 27, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			If Klopp isn't going to bring Coutino back, he sure as well won't buy Bale.....thank god.
		
Click to expand...

Bale is significantly better than coutinho imo and certainly a better fit. 

That being siad, he's just too expensive for anyone to take.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2019)

Fish said:



			There are plenty of multi millionaire or greater owners in football, doesnâ€™t necessarily mean theyâ€™ll put their hands in their pockets and play the long game investment wise.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, billionaire owners/companies try to use other peopleâ€™s money for big investment in buildings etc.

Peel Holdings are a massive player so Iâ€™d be surprised if they never put some money into the build.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			If Klopp isn't going to bring Coutino back, he sure as well won't buy Bale.....thank god.
		
Click to expand...

X


Bunkermagnet said:



			If Klopp isn't going to bring Coutino back, he sure as well won't buy Bale.....thank god.
		
Click to expand...

You seriously wouldnâ€™t want Bale in the team ?! He is outstanding- brilliant player who has proven himself at the highest level even if some canâ€™t see that. He would be a perfect fit for the team 

And Coutinho not coming back has zero connection - the only reason why Klopp wouldnâ€™t look at Bale would be the wages , he wonâ€™t go back for Coutinho because he was a snake and we have moved on from him. 

Bale is that good he could easily be the player to help us get past City in the league - truely world class


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			X


You seriously wouldnâ€™t want Bale in the team ?! He is outstanding- brilliant player who has proven himself at the highest level even if some canâ€™t see that. He would be a perfect fit for the team

And Coutinho not coming back has zero connection - the only reason why Klopp wouldnâ€™t look at Bale would be the wages , he wonâ€™t go back for Coutinho because he was a snake and we have moved on from him.

Bale is that good he could easily be the player to help us get past City in the league - truely world class
		
Click to expand...

I'm not saying he isn't good, but he isn't a full season player and you'd be lucky to get a dozen games tops out of him.
Plus I'm not convinced he is a team player, all the reports from Spain of his refusal to eat and join in with his team-mates proves that.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I'm not saying he isn't good, but he isn't a full season player and you'd be lucky to get a dozen games tops out of him.
Plus I'm not convinced he is a team player, *all the reports from Spain of his refusal to eat and join in with his team-mates proves that.*

Click to expand...

Donâ€™t believe everything you read. His injury record isnâ€™t that bad though is it?


----------



## Wolf (Jul 27, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Donâ€™t believe everything you read. His injury record isnâ€™t that bad though is it?
		
Click to expand...

His injury record is terrible awful. Below is part of what I posted earlier on in the thread. 




			I think he is quality player but in his time at Madrid he has had 18 injuries meaning he's missed 69 matches, seeing as he signed coming up for 6 years ago that's over 11 games a season average that a player of his value is missing
		
Click to expand...

As I say quality player but a lot of missed games. Even in the build up to the last CL final win where he scored that cracker he'd only just returned from a lay off so was lucky to make the squad for the match, but admittedly they paid off pretty well.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2019)

Wolf said:



			His injury record is terrible awful. Below is part of what I posted earlier on in the thread.



As I say quality player but a lot of missed games. Even in the build up to the last CL final win where he scored that cracker he'd only just returned from a lay off so was lucky to make the squad for the match, but admittedly they paid off pretty well.
		
Click to expand...

Missing 11 games a season from a potential 50 plus isnâ€™t too bad but I get your point. Heâ€™s a very good player, just too expensive to buy and wages. Not many, if any, PL clubs could afford to get anywhere near what heâ€™s on now.


----------



## Wolf (Jul 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Missing 11 games a season from a potential 50 plus isnâ€™t too bad but I get your point. Heâ€™s a very good player, just too expensive to buy and wages. Not many, if any, PL clubs could afford to get anywhere near what heâ€™s on now.
		
Click to expand...

It doesn't sound to bad when you think of it as 50 games, but if you take out early rounds of cup games he wouldnt be used in and some of the smaller league games he wouldn't be needed in and would be rested for anyway it takes the number nearer to missing 11 out of 36 games. If you consider for a club competing at top level in CL & League that becomes nearly a 1/3 of the games he'd be needed in he's missing. That can be a huge difference to title contending teams. Which is why at the wages he's in even the teams that could potentially afford him don't seem to want to touch him. 

Very good player would improve a lot of teams, but is now hugely priced out of a move. With the money he's already banked he could easily take a step down in wages for a couple seasons to give something a go and still then move onto china's bug money for a retirement earner.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 28, 2019)

The move is off. 
Maybe Bale reads the forum & thought better of itðŸ¤·â€â™‚ï¸


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Missing 11 games a season from a potential 50 plus isnâ€™t too bad but I get your point. Heâ€™s a very good player, just too expensive to buy and wages. Not many, if any, PL clubs could afford to get anywhere near what heâ€™s on now.
		
Click to expand...

Bales injury record isnâ€™t as bad as made out 
In his 6 seasons at Madrid he played more times than he did in the 6 previous season for Spurs 

There are not many players that play week in week out especially guys that rely a lot on pace 

He had two seasons in the middle where he suffered a number of injuries but the last two seasons he has played 40 games each season and last season he was left on the bench a number of times 

He would be superb for us but no way could we or indeed any Prem club afford him - no player takes the pay drop he would need to take. Seeing the highlights of their game against Atletico they would be mad to get rid right now as well , he is better than anyone they have and has proven it in La Liga as well as in the CL. Now the deal is off I expect him to see out his contract then go on a free


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 28, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1155564124472061952
Class from Mane


----------



## Wolf (Jul 28, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1155564124472061952
Class from Mane
		
Click to expand...

Now that is pure class, a man that's clearly not forgotten his roots and want to use his wealth to give others a better chance in life. Massive respect


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 28, 2019)

How much does pre season harm Some Teams prem preparations.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 28, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Now that is pure class, a man that's clearly not forgotten his roots and want to use his wealth to give others a better chance in life. Massive respect
		
Click to expand...

A lot of the big African players seem to do it. 
Definitely good to see.


----------



## fundy (Jul 28, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			How much does pre season harm
Some Teams prem preparations.
		
Click to expand...

Why are you writing
One sentence as two?


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 28, 2019)

fundy said:



			Why are you writing
One sentence as two?  

Click to expand...

Flippin chuckin grandkids in bed mid sentance. ðŸ˜–ðŸ‘


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 28, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			How much does pre season harm Some Teams prem preparations.
		
Click to expand...

Quite a bit I'd say in some cases. The trips around the world are about business, making money etc, nothing to do with preparing a team for the upcoming season. A necessary evil in this modern era.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 29, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			The move is off.
Maybe Bale reads the forum & thought better of itðŸ¤·â€â™‚ï¸
		
Click to expand...

He probably didn't rate the golf courses in China.


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 29, 2019)

Where did Arsenal find 72m for Pepe, and does this mean we are selling Auba to Utd to pay for it?


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 29, 2019)

Cutrone having a medical today still a few rumours about Ruben Dias flying about. 

Players coming from Milan and Madrid when we used to get excited about kids from Plymouth and Oxford coming in. 

What a time to be alive.


----------



## Wolf (Jul 29, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Where did Arsenal find 72m for Pepe, and does this mean we are selling Auba to Utd to pay for it?
		
Click to expand...

I sincerely hope we aren't selling him or Lacazette. But we still need defensive options..


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 29, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Where did Arsenal find 72m for Pepe, and does this mean we are selling Auba to Utd to pay for it?
		
Click to expand...

It seems an amazing amount for 1 player at a club which claims to be working to a tight budget. Arsenal do seem to give out mixed messages at times.

If you sell Auba, can't be bothered to look up the spelling , that would look an incredibly bad move from the outside. To sell him to a rival would be madness. Is he not good for you?


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 29, 2019)

Yes, he is awesome, but at 30, with two years left on his deal, it is new deal time, or sell while he still has value. Can't have another Ramsey situation. 62m is a good offer.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 29, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Where did Arsenal find 72m for Pepe, and does this mean we are selling Auba to Utd to pay for it?
		
Click to expand...

It's some structured deal with like Â£30m up front and more later. I think you're more likely to get that sort of thing accepted by an overseas club, where unlike the Premier League every single club's wallets aren't fattened by TV money.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 29, 2019)

A lot of money for United to spend on a 30 year old when Ole seems to be saying itâ€™s back youth to rebuild.


----------



## Slime (Jul 29, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			A lot of money for United to spend on a 30 year old when Ole seems to be saying itâ€™s back youth to rebuild.
		
Click to expand...

At least it would be something!
It's now about a month before Utd put their hands in their pockets.
Time is running out and we still need a centre back, a midfielder, (two if Pogba goes), and a right sided attacker ........................... MINIMUM.


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 29, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			It's some structured deal with like Â£30m up front and more later. I think you're more likely to get that sort of thing accepted by an overseas club, where unlike the Premier League every single club's wallets aren't fattened by TV money.
		
Click to expand...

It is partly do with not showing too much profit. If they make money, the French Gov tax the heck out of it. Pay it all in one go, and the Gov take most of it


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 29, 2019)

Ooooh thats naughty


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 30, 2019)

Idrissa's gone to PSG  Bit worried about our defence now that we're without Zouma and Gueye and haven't replaced either of them. Maybe Silva likes the look of Besic, but I'm not convinced. We need a new CB and a new DM quickly. Also looking like the Zaha move is off, we've come out and denied making a 2nd bid for him. Hope that's not true, really want us to go big and get him in.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 30, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Idrissa's gone to PSG  Bit worried about our defence now that we're without Zouma and Gueye and haven't replaced either of them. Maybe Silva likes the look of Besic, but I'm not convinced. We need a new CB and a new DM quickly. Also looking like the Zaha move is off, we've come out and denied making a 2nd bid for him. Hope that's not true, really want us to go big and get him in.
		
Click to expand...

The rumour mill went into overdrive yesterday regarding who we are interested in. No idea what is true and what isn't but at least one related to a direct replacement for Gueye. I do have faith in the team that are there in charge of signings now though. They seem clued in, professional.

Good luck to Gueye, he owes us nothing, gave everything out on the pitch.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 30, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Idrissa's gone to PSG  Bit worried about our defence now that we're without Zouma and Gueye and haven't replaced either of them. Maybe Silva likes the look of Besic, but I'm not convinced. We need a new CB and a new DM quickly. Also looking like the Zaha move is off, we've come out and denied making a 2nd bid for him. Hope that's not true, really want us to go big and get him in.
		
Click to expand...

You have replaced Gueye, you signed Delph! Did you forget??


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 30, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The rumour mill went into overdrive yesterday regarding who we are interested in. No idea what is true and what isn't but at least one related to a direct replacement for Gueye. I do have faith in the team that are there in charge of signings now though. They seem clued in, professional.

Good luck to Gueye, he owes us nothing, gave everything out on the pitch.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, absolutely good luck to him, don't blame him at all for going, just a shame for us defensively.

I too have faith in Brands and Silva when it comes to transfer, but at the minute it feels like we've got worse.

Zouma, Gueye, Lookman and Jags gone. Delph, Gomes, Lossl in, so only Delph is a real addition to the squad as we had Andre last year and Lossl is possibly even 3rd choice keeper. Need to start making moves soon. 



Orikoru said:



			You have replaced Gueye, you signed Delph! Did you forget??
		
Click to expand...

Eh, I guess. Don't really see him as a direct replacement for Gueye, but I guess we'll wait and see. Definitely a downgrade from Idrissa anyway, but yeah, I did actually forget we'd signed him


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 30, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Yeah, absolutely good luck to him, don't blame him at all for going, just a shame for us defensively.

I too have faith in Brands and Silva when it comes to transfer, but at the minute it feels like we've got worse.

Zouma, Gueye, Lookman and Jags gone. Delph, Gomes, Lossl in, so only Delph is a real addition to the squad as we had Andre last year and Lossl is possibly even 3rd choice keeper. Need to start making moves soon.

Eh, I guess. Don't really see him as a direct replacement for Gueye, but I guess we'll wait and see. Definitely a downgrade from Idrissa anyway, but yeah, I did actually forget we'd signed him 

Click to expand...

Haha. I agree he won't be as good but in terms of playing time I see him playing in the same kind of role as Gueye was for you. I hope he does anyway, I've tentatively lobbed him in my Fantasy team since he's listed as a defender and I like a sneaky move like that...


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 30, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Haha. I agree he won't be as good but in terms of playing time I see him playing in the same kind of role as Gueye was for you. I hope he does anyway, I've tentatively lobbed him in my Fantasy team since he's listed as a defender and I like a sneaky move like that...
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're probably right, just not convinced he's got the defensive nous of Gueye, but we'll wait and see. Hmm, interesting move. Not sure how many points he'll get going forward compared to other 5.5m defenders like Seamus, Wan-Bissaka, PVA, Chilwell, or Shaw, but could be a good shout. I did something similar with Ricardo Pereira last year after he was down as a Defender and started the season at RW.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 30, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Yeah, you're probably right, just not convinced he's got the defensive nous of Gueye, but we'll wait and see. Hmm, interesting move. Not sure how many points he'll get going forward compared to other 5.5m defenders like Seamus, Wan-Bissaka, PVA, Chilwell, or Shaw, but could be a good shout. I did something similar with Ricardo Pereira last year after he was down as a Defender and started the season at RW.
		
Click to expand...

Ricardo was a beast. You might be right, I think my eagerness to be sneaky is clouding my judgement considering Delph's price, lol. I'll probably end up sacking him off, then he'll obviously score on the opening day. (I already have Bissaka though.)


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 30, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Ricardo was a beast. You might be right, I think my eagerness to be sneaky is clouding my judgement considering Delph's price, lol. I'll probably end up sacking him off, then he'll obviously score on the opening day.
		
Click to expand...

I hope so 

Jota as one of my strikers is my only punt of the year, and given his price I could really do with him doing well, the other options around that price are awful!


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 30, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1156135952638795777
What a choice of cover star from PES.


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 30, 2019)

Seems most teams are after a CB. This could be like looking for the years trendy toy at xmas. Supplies running low, and lack of availability pushing prices to silly money.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 30, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1156155062315618304
 Excited for this move. He has so much talent, surprised Juve are willing to sell him tbh.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 30, 2019)

They are overloaded with strikers, the chat over the last couple of days has been about a buy back clause being a sticking point. If they have one in then it is almost like loaning him out for 2-3 years. Exciting signing but at the moment our two strikers are a 19yr old who needs to adapt to the PL and the country, Keane, and Calvert Lewin, 22, who is great at hold up lay but doesn't seem to score (I am assuming that Tosun will be moved on). We are pinning a lot on relatively young players up top. I'm wondering whether a cheeky bid for Charlie Austin would make sense? He could ease some of the burden and help these two lads out.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 30, 2019)

Dan2501 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1156155062315618304
 Excited for this move. He has so much talent, surprised Juve are willing to sell him tbh.
		
Click to expand...

They were determined to include a buy-back price in the deal apparently.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 30, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They are overloaded with strikers, the chat over the last couple of days has been about a buy back clause being a sticking point. If they have one in then it is almost like loaning him out for 2-3 years. Exciting signing but at the moment our two strikers are a 19yr old who needs to adapt to the PL and the country, Keane, and Calvert Lewin, 22, who is great at hold up lay but doesn't seem to score (I am assuming that Tosun will be moved on). We are pinning a lot on relatively young players up top. I'm wondering whether a cheeky bid for Charlie Austin would make sense? He could ease some of the burden and help these two lads out.
		
Click to expand...

Surely you can set your sights higher than Charlie Austin, lol.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 30, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Surely you can set your sights higher than Charlie Austin, lol.
		
Click to expand...

Southampton want rid, he is an experienced striker who could help these two lads through. He would give those lads a rest when needed, League cup for example, come on with 15mins to go in a game where necessary. He would do the job that Lorrente did for you


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 30, 2019)

I've read quite a few rumours that we're in for Danny Welbeck on a free, apparently his crazy wage demands are holding the move back at the minute.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 30, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			I've read quite a few rumours that we're in for Danny Welbeck on a free, apparently his crazy wage demands are holding the move back at the minute.
		
Click to expand...

100k a week plus 5 million sign on

Not bad for his quality but for his injury record itâ€™s awful

50k basic with 70k add ons for appearing maybe.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 30, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			I've read quite a few rumours that we're in for Danny Welbeck on a free, apparently his crazy wage demands are holding the move back at the minute.
		
Click to expand...

Anything other than pay as you play or bonus related salary would be madness. His injury record doesn't deserve anything else.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 30, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			100k a week plus 5 million sign on

Not bad for his quality but for his injury record itâ€™s awful

50k basic with 70k add ons for appearing maybe.
		
Click to expand...

In all honesty him and his agent must thick if they really think anyone is stumping up that sort of money with his injury history. As you say, something where half of it is based on appearances seems sensible.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 30, 2019)

Reading that we've managed to get out of the buy-back clause stipulation in the deal for Kean, but instead Juve will have first refusal should we decide to sell him. Very good news if true.


----------



## Jensen (Jul 30, 2019)

[QUOTE 19815"]Anything other than pay as you play or bonus related salary would be madness. His injury record doesn't deserve anything else.[/QUOTE]


Shame Michael Owen wasn't on a deal like that when he played (turned up) for the Toon. They would have saved a fortune


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 30, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			I've read quite a few rumours that we're in for Danny Welbeck on a free, apparently his crazy wage demands are holding the move back at the minute.
		
Click to expand...

Why would anyone touch him?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They are overloaded with strikers, the chat over the last couple of days has been about a buy back clause being a sticking point. If they have one in then it is almost like loaning him out for 2-3 years. Exciting signing but at the moment our two strikers are a 19yr old who needs to adapt to the PL and the country, Keane, and Calvert Lewin, 22, who is great at hold up lay but doesn't seem to score (I am assuming that Tosun will be moved on). We are pinning a lot on relatively young players up top. I'm wondering whether a cheeky bid for Charlie Austin would make sense? He could ease some of the burden and help these two lads out.
		
Click to expand...

Strange summer so far in regards the signings 

Pepe going to Arsenal - strange 

Everton letting Gueye go and seemingly quite cheap , but I will never understand why Lookman didnâ€™t get a chance and then sold. The team seems to need CBâ€™s - not sure about Kean - far too early in his career yet , very raw and going to adjust. 

Other than that there doesnâ€™t seem to be many signings beyond Villa going mad


----------



## fundy (Jul 30, 2019)

whys Pepe tfr strange?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2019)

fundy said:



			whys Pepe tfr strange?
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s the one area that Arsenal donâ€™t seem to need players - it seems a player that can be bought based on a â€œyearlyâ€ payment structure and a lot of money for him when not sure if he is that good - mixed reports


----------



## fundy (Jul 30, 2019)

Emery clearly wants to play with 2 wide men and doesnt rate Iwobi or Mhiki (who does?). Clearly chosen Pepe over Zaha based on being able to buy on the never never, decent enough player on what Ive seen, price seems enough but then dont they all these days! Not heard what wages weve paid (which always worries me with Arsenal!)

Now if we can get Marseille to take Mustafi........................


----------



## Fish (Jul 31, 2019)

Looks like the flat track bully is a done deal and has gone in a swap deal....


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 31, 2019)

Fish said:



			Looks like the flat track bully is a done deal and has gone in a swap deal....
		
Click to expand...

Surprised? I'm not.

 He's not top class and certainly not good enough for any of the Top 6. Yes he scores goals but hes a very streaky player.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 31, 2019)

Definitely think United are getting the better deal.


----------



## Wolf (Jul 31, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Definitely think United are getting the better deal.
		
Click to expand...

I'd say Lukaku is getting the better deal than anyone, moves to a warmer climate, to a club guaranteed to win trophies and be in the CL every year. 

That being said Dybala is a class player so utd at least get a good player but an out and  out goal scorer he is not, only 2 seasons in the last 6 years he scored more than 13 goals. But be good to see what he can do


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 31, 2019)

Wolf said:



			I'd say Lukaku is getting the better deal than anyone, moves to a warmer climate, to a club guaranteed to win trophies and be in the CL every year.

That being said Dybala is a class player so utd at least get a good player but an out and  out goal scorer he is not, only 2 seasons in the last 6 years he scored more than 13 goals. But be good to see what he can do
		
Click to expand...

I think Dybala will add more to the United side though in terms of movement etc and while he's not an out and out scorer as you said, I feel he has a chance to create more for others. The trouble with Lukaku is his consistency week in and week out. Granted Lukaku will get more out of it in terms of medals but I feel United are getting a better overall player


----------



## Wolf (Jul 31, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I *think Dybala will add more to the United side though in terms of movement etc* and while he's not an out and out scorer as you said, I feel he has a chance to create more for others. The trouble with Lukaku is his consistency week in and week out. Granted Lukaku will get more out of it in terms of medals but I feel United are getting a better overall player
		
Click to expand...

That bit is spot on he will add a new dynamic that they haven't had for a while in terms of creating space and opportunity, still can't see where the goals are going to come from for them though


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2019)

Strange deal - Dybala isnâ€™t a goalscorer , more someone who likes to play of striker and drop deep pick up the ball - more like a Firmino type player so will be interesting to see where he fits into the way OGS is going to play at Utd - I would have looked at a swap with Mandzukic even at his age.

Itâ€™s a strange old window

Some guy has marked the Premier League managers




Seems about right


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 31, 2019)

So Man Utd are again buying players that are not really what they need or are over priced. The problem with that is.....................


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 31, 2019)

Wolf said:



			I'd say Lukaku is getting the better deal than anyone, moves to a warmer climate, to a club guaranteed to win trophies and be in the CL every year.

That being said Dybala is a class player so utd at least get a good player but an out and  out goal scorer he is not, only 2 seasons in the last 6 years he scored more than 13 goals. But be good to see what he can do
		
Click to expand...

Whilst Iâ€™d normally agree I find goal record in other leagues are to be taken with a pinch of salt 

Itâ€™s the player who suits the league that matters

Shevkenko tore apart that league.. didnâ€™t in the prem

Torres was average in Spain goal wise but first season in prem he set the place alight 

Fernando morientes had a similar record to Torres in Spain then flopped in England 

Be interesting to see how he adapts here, if he gets the service he will do well


----------



## Wolf (Jul 31, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Whilst Iâ€™d normally agree I find goal record in other leagues are to be taken with a pinch of salt

Itâ€™s the player who suits the league that matters

Shevkenko tore apart that league.. didnâ€™t in the prem

Torres was average in Spain goal wise but first season in prem he set the place alight

Fernando morientes had a similar record to Torres in Spain then flopped in England

Be interesting to see how he adapts here, if he gets the service he will do well
		
Click to expand...

He's not a goal scorer though like Shevchenko was, someone who scored 5 goals in 30 league games last season in an easier league, because they're not used to playing ad a main won't suddenly come here play as point man and knock 20 goals. 

Like I said though he is a good player and adds a different dimension but imo he won't solve the goal scoring issue


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 31, 2019)

Wolf said:



			He's not a goal scorer though like Shevchenko was, someone who scored 5 goals in 30 league games last season in an easier league, because they're not used to playing ad a main won't suddenly come here play as point man and knock 20 goals.

Like I said though he is a good player and adds a different dimension but imo he won't solve the goal scoring issue
		
Click to expand...


Italian league isnâ€™t easier tho for goals

Heavily defensive league


----------



## Wolf (Jul 31, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Italian league isnâ€™t easier tho for goals

Heavily defensive league
		
Click to expand...

Premier league is quicker and more physical, there arguments for and against but its my opinion that he isn't the answer to their goal scoring


----------



## PieMan (Jul 31, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Strange deal - Dybala isnâ€™t a goalscorer , more someone who likes to play of striker and drop deep pick up the ball - more like a Firmino type player so will be interesting to see where he fits into the way OGS is going to play at Utd - I would have looked at a swap with Mandzukic even at his age.

Itâ€™s a strange old window

Some guy has marked the Premier League managers


View attachment 27865

Seems about right
		
Click to expand...


With the resources available to them, Sean Dyche and Eddie Howe should be a lot higher - what they've done with Burnley and Bournemouth to keep them in the Premiership is outstanding! Let's face it Pep has it easy - when you've got a transfer budget bigger than half the world's economies then any half competent manager can clean up.........well perhaps not Steve Bruce.........and OGS!!! 

And the bottom four places should be filled by those managers with no Premiership experience; with Lampard bottom of the pile!


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 31, 2019)

A front-3 of Martial, Rashford and Dybala with Pogba providing creativity from midfield and Wan Bissaka and Shaw providing width from wing-back looks pretty bloody scary to me going forward.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 31, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			A front-3 of Martial, Rashford and Dybala with Pogba providing creativity from midfield and Wan Bissaka and Shaw providing width from wing-back looks pretty bloody scary to me going forward.
		
Click to expand...

I would agree itâ€™s a similar setup to Liverpool.


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 31, 2019)

PieMan said:



			With the resources available to them, Sean Dyche and Eddie Howe should be a lot higher - what they've done with Burnley and Bournemouth to keep them in the Premiership is outstanding! Let's face it Pep has it easy - when you've got a transfer budget bigger than half the world's economies then any half competent manager can clean up.........well perhaps not Steve Bruce.........and OGS!!! 

And the bottom four places should be filled by those managers with no Premiership experience; with Lampard bottom of the pile!
		
Click to expand...

I think Hasenhutl should be higher up, despite zero prem experience. I would drop Emery down about 10 places too.


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 31, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			A front-3 of Martial, Rashford and Dybala with Pogba providing creativity from midfield and Wan Bissaka and Shaw providing width from wing-back looks pretty bloody scary to me going forward.
		
Click to expand...

At some point OGS and United really do need to find a way of getting Sanchez to click. He is the answer to scoring goals, and can / will score more than that front 3 combined. Just need to get him on board.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 31, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I would agree itâ€™s a similar setup to Liverpool.
		
Click to expand...

And I'd suggest OGS has seem the Klopp success over the last few seasons and realise that he needs something similar at United. I'd argue the Liverpool personnel are still streets ahead of Uniteds but if OGS can get them playing in that style and as someone else said get Sanchez firing then it does have the potential to get them a top four finish. That said it could also square pegs and round holes again as has been the case at Old Trafford in the recent past


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 31, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And I'd suggest OGS has seem the Klopp success over the last few seasons and realise that he needs something similar at United. I'd argue the Liverpool personnel are still streets ahead of Uniteds but if OGS can get them playing in that style and as someone else said get Sanchez firing then it does have the potential to get them a top four finish. That said it could also square pegs and round holes again as has been the case at Old Trafford in the recent past
		
Click to expand...

All the Utd players mentioned are top class they just need to play as a team ,
Something they never did at times last year.
But canâ€™t see them being that bad again.
But just like us he needs to sort the defence out.
How boring is it without any footy on telly.
Roll on.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 31, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			All the Utd players mentioned are top class they just need to play as a team ,
Something they never did at times last year.
But canâ€™t see them being that bad again.
But just like us he needs to sort the defence out.
How boring is it without any footy on telly.
Roll on.
		
Click to expand...

I think defensively you were definitely better last year and VVD becoming a massive influence but of course any team could be better for a decent new signing. I am not convinced Martial has really played anywhere near potential at United yet, so he needs to step up. The biggest concern would be United being able to play that style of football and more importantly how they cope when they lose the ball


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 31, 2019)

Cutrone signed yesterday....Ruben Dias next please.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 31, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I think defensively you were definitely better last year and VVD becoming a massive influence but of course any team could be better for a decent new signing. I am not convinced Martial has really played anywhere near potential at United yet, so he needs to step up. The biggest concern would be United being able to play that style of football and more importantly how they cope when they lose the ball
		
Click to expand...

Yes agree thatâ€™s where Pogba becomes a liability great going forward but defending is not his forte.
To play like Liverpool you need the work rate.
I think they have the players but need a CB like Virgil but they are not easy to find , he made the difference for us with the keeper .


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			A front-3 of Martial, Rashford and Dybala with Pogba providing creativity from midfield and Wan Bissaka and Shaw providing width from wing-back looks pretty bloody scary to me going forward.
		
Click to expand...

On paper it looks scary but the reality is they just havenâ€™t produced over the years - they donâ€™t create enough or score enough and adding Dybala wonâ€™t change that imo


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 31, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			On paper it looks scary but the reality is they just havenâ€™t produced over the years - they donâ€™t create enough or score enough and adding Dybala wonâ€™t change that imo
		
Click to expand...

Yes no matter what anyone thinks of Lukaku he does score goals.
He misses a few but so does every striker.
Canâ€™t understand a team selling a goal scorer for a no 10.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 31, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			On paper it looks scary but the reality is they just havenâ€™t produced over the years - they donâ€™t create enough or score enough and adding Dybala wonâ€™t change that imo
		
Click to expand...

Over the years? Not like they've been playing forever, Rashford is 21, Martial 23, only a matter of time before they convert their talent into goals, especially if Martial can stay fit. Dybala would bring so much creativity (as a Second Striker he scored 6, assisted 5 in 11 games last season) and if OGS can get him and Pogba working well together they'd create so many opportunities. Also upgrading from Young to Wan-Bissaka offers them a lot more going forward at wing back, something they've sorely missed since Valencia lost his legs.

De Gea

Wan Bissaka
Lindelof
Maguire
Shaw

Matic
Pogba

Sanchez
Dybala
Martial

Rashford

Looks more than strong enough to compete to me. OGS just needs to get that front 4 firing and working well together. Sanchez is the worry obviously, but a bit of confidence and faith from the manager and I think he'll be a different player, he's only 30.


----------



## Cherry13 (Jul 31, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes no matter what anyone thinks of Lukaku he does score goals.
He misses a few but so does every striker.
Canâ€™t understand a team selling a goal scorer for a no 10.
		
Click to expand...

He scored 22 the season before, 11 before that and 19 before that. He can have a good goal scoring season if it comes together. 
He was second highest scorer for Juve last season (in all comps) I think that says more about the team than him.  

He likely dropped off because only 1 man can get the goals, and in the current Juve system that is C.Ronaldo. 

I donâ€™t think heâ€™ll get 30 goals for them, but heâ€™ll certainly improve there attack over Lukaku.


----------



## PieMan (Jul 31, 2019)

Dybala must be mental wanting to swap Juve for Man Utd! ðŸ˜‚

Until United sort out Jones, Smalling and Pogba they're only going to be playing for Europa League at best.

Rashford, Martial and Shaw are very good - I'd love to have Rashford and Shaw at Chelsea.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Over the years? Not like they've been playing forever*, Rashford is 21, Martial 23, only a matter of time before they convert their talent into goals*, especially* if Martial can stay fi*t. Dybala would bring so much creativity (as a Second Striker he scored 6, assisted 5 in 11 games last season) and *if OGS can get him and Pogba working well* together they'd create so many opportunities. Also upgrading from Young to Wan-Bissaka offers them a lot more going forward at wing back, something they've sorely missed since Valencia lost his legs.

De Gea

Wan Bissaka
Lindelof
Maguire
Shaw

Matic
Pogba

Sanchez
Dybala
Martial

Rashford

Looks more than strong enough to compete to me. OGS just needs to get that front 4 firing and working well together. Sanchez is the worry obviously, but a bit of confidence and faith from the manager and I think he'll be a different player, he's only 30.
		
Click to expand...

Highlighted all the caveats

IF 

and only a matter of time ? How long has Martial been in the league now ? Rashford has been playing for a number of seasons now , this will be Pogba's third season back in the Prem , Sanchez has been there 18 months now 

You could go back 3 years when they bought Lukaku and Di Maria etc and it all looked great on paper - football isnt won on paper - Dybala played 30 league games last season and scored 5 , rate him as a player but dont see him being the fix to add the goals they miss.

And then there is Pogba - you have put him in the midfield as a two along with Matic - top teams would swallow them up , and then there is Lindelof , Jones Smalling - just poor CB's 

I dont see them progressing much further this year because the issues they had last season are still there and they have a imo a manager who is way out of his depth


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 31, 2019)

I think United will make top 4 this year. I can't see OGS or the board accepting anything less. The potential is there and the bigger issue I see is OGS coping with the pressure on his first full season in charge and the level of expectation. I do agree they are still weak defensively and its something they need to address in the market before the window closes


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 31, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Italian league isnâ€™t easier tho for goals

Heavily defensive league
		
Click to expand...

It used to be but not anymore.


----------



## Slime (Jul 31, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Over the years? Not like they've been playing forever, Rashford is 21, Martial 23, only a matter of time before they convert their talent into goals, especially if Martial can stay fit. Dybala would bring so much creativity (as a Second Striker he scored 6, assisted 5 in 11 games last season) and if OGS can get him and Pogba working well together they'd create so many opportunities. Also upgrading from Young to Wan-Bissaka offers them a lot more going forward at wing back, something they've sorely missed since Valencia lost his legs.

De Gea

Wan Bissaka
Lindelof
Maguire
Shaw

Matic
Pogba

Sanchez
Dybala
Martial

Rashford

Looks more than strong enough to compete to me. OGS just needs to get that front 4 firing and working well together. Sanchez is the worry obviously, but a bit of confidence and faith from the manager and I think he'll be a different player, he's only 30.
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully we'll get Bruno Fernandes so Matic will be gone.
I know they're not quite the same type of player, but I'd go for that change.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2019)

Slime said:



			Hopefully we'll get Bruno Fernandes so Matic will be gone.
		
Click to expand...

Is that Fernandes the attacking midfielder ?! Replacing a defensive midfielder? - god I hope so because that would leave those poor CBâ€™s even more exposed.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2019)

https://www.soccerladuma.co.za/news...award-1/660216?gallery=660216&gallery-page=11

FIFA announce the short list for Best Player 

Who is going to win and who should win ? 

For me itâ€™s got to be VVD - been the best player over the past year and key to us winning the CL 


There there is best coach 

https://www.soccerladuma.co.za/news...ees-for-2019-the-best-fifa-men-s-coach/660203

Klopp or Pep I guess


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 31, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.soccerladuma.co.za/news...award-1/660216?gallery=660216&gallery-page=11

FIFA announce the short list for Best Player

Who is going to win and who should win ?

For me itâ€™s got to be VVD - been the best player over the past year and key to us winning the CL


There there is best coach

https://www.soccerladuma.co.za/news...ees-for-2019-the-best-fifa-men-s-coach/660203

Klopp or Pep I guess
		
Click to expand...

 VVD & Klopp ðŸ‘ðŸ»


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jul 31, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.soccerladuma.co.za/news...award-1/660216?gallery=660216&gallery-page=11

FIFA announce the short list for Best Player

Who is going to win and who should win ?

For me itâ€™s got to be VVD - been the best player over the past year and key to us winning the CL


There there is best coach

https://www.soccerladuma.co.za/news...ees-for-2019-the-best-fifa-men-s-coach/660203

Klopp or Pep I guess
		
Click to expand...

Wouldn't argue if VVD won the award for best player but could argue with best coach. There's no doubt that Pep and Klopp are very good coaches but why do these awards always seem to go to the biggest clubs. It can't be that hard to be a top coach if you can spend Â£50 million or more to fill a gap in your squad.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 1, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Wouldn't argue if VVD won the award for best player but could argue with best coach. There's no doubt that Pep and Klopp are very good coaches but why do these awards always seem to go to the biggest clubs. It can't be that hard to be a top coach if you can spend Â£50 million or more to fill a gap in your squad.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree. It has to be easier with the best players and best resources and facilities and while you still have to manage and coach them to produce, surely its easier to be a Pep or Klopp than one of those managers with a far more limited squad and resources.


----------



## Slime (Aug 1, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is that Fernandes the attacking midfielder ?! Replacing a defensive midfielder? - god I hope so because that would leave those poor CBâ€™s even more exposed.
		
Click to expand...

With Matic in the team, they're already exposed.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 1, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Totally agree. It has to be easier with the best players and best resources and facilities and while you still have to manage and coach them to produce, *surely its easier to be a Pep or Klopp than one of those managers with a far more limited squad and resources.*

Click to expand...

What a stupid comment.

That's the same in most sports, best players win and or the team with the most money (F1 example) win. 
A manager can only work with what hes got. 

Would you expect Pep to win the league and play the way he does with say a Palace or a Burnley?


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 1, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Wouldn't argue if VVD won the award for best player but could argue with best coach. There's no doubt that Pep and Klopp are very good coaches but why do these awards always seem to go to the biggest clubs. *It can't be that hard to be a top coach if you can spend Â£50 million or more to fill a gap in your squad*.
		
Click to expand...

Mourinhos last job has proved it's not just about buying expensive players.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 1, 2019)

Slime said:



			With Matic in the team, they're already exposed.
		
Click to expand...

Then the need should be to spend Â£60/70 mil ( the cost of Fernandes ) on a defensive midfielder to replace Matic - Fernandes isnâ€™t a player to sit deep and protect - he will fill that same role that Pogba wants or Mata or Dybala etc - hence why I think the players OGS is going for seem strange


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 1, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			What a stupid comment.

That's the same in most sports, best players win and or the team with the most money (F1 example) win.
A manager can only work with what hes got.

Would you expect Pep to win the league and play the way he does with say a Palace or a Burnley?
		
Click to expand...

F1 money has ruined the sport decades ago and so we all know its basically a two team event. My point was these awards seemingly go to managers with large budgets, better resources and rarely does a role like Espirito Santo and guiding Wolves to 7th and Europa league get the recognition it deserves.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 1, 2019)

Should the Ajax bloke not win the best coach award? Limited resources, team always being stripped of its best players. Won their domestic league, got to the CL semi final beating huge teams on the way, playing lovely football. That was some good coaching!


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 1, 2019)

One would suggest that seeing as Pep has not had one player nominated. His achievement is even greater. Having read what Bernado Silva has won last season, and not just with City but portugal. And player of the tournament on top. Am gobsmacked he was not even nominated.  Allison had more golden gloves than hands. Yet no mention. Shocking


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 1, 2019)

Van Dijk's great, but it's Messi for Ballon D'or for me. 51 goals in 50 games, La Liga title, CL Semi final. Too good not to get it I think.

As for the coach, its probably Klopp, although I would like to see Ten Hag pick it up, has done an exceptional job re-building Ajax bringing through youth and creating a style of play that can compete with the best teams in Europe. Can't argue with Klopp's results though, so probably should be him.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 1, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Should the Ajax bloke not win the best coach award? Limited resources, team always being stripped of its best players. Won their domestic league, got to the CL semi final beating huge teams on the way, playing lovely football. That was some good coaching!
		
Click to expand...

The coach at Ajax will be a good shout and certainly a worth winner 



Dan2501 said:



			Van Dijk's great, but it's Messi for Ballon D'or for me. 51 goals in 50 games, La Liga title, CL Semi final. Too good not to get it I think.

As for the coach, its probably Klopp, although I would like to see Ten Hag pick it up, has done an exceptional job re-building Ajax bringing through youth and creating a style of play that can compete with the best teams in Europe. Can't argue with Klopp's results though, so probably should be him.
		
Click to expand...

Messi always scores loads in La Liga and it will be the obvious choice - he score lots but it would be a shame to not see past that and look at his impact in his two real big games - second leg semi Final in CL , totally outplayed by VVD and was missing again in a big CL game for them , then onto the Copa America - missing again. No doubt his league stats are great and Barcelona cruised to the league but surely needs to be a touch more ?


----------



## Wolf (Aug 1, 2019)

I think Ten Hag should get the manager award for what he's done with Ajax is superb, but can see Klopp getting it and it wouldn't be undeserved to be fair. 

Big fan of Messi but realistically what has he done different this season to past seasons. VVD on the other hand been an absolute rock for Liverpool and more deserving of the accolade.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 1, 2019)

Are defenders or GK allowed to win? . About bloomin time one of them did win, VVD all the way for me.


----------



## Wolf (Aug 1, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Are defenders or GK allowed to win? . About bloomin time one of them did win, VVD all the way for me.
		
Click to expand...

Lev Yashin as far as I'm aware remains the only GK to have one won the award. 

I know Fabio Cannavaro won in 2006 but no defender has since and not sure about before that.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 1, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Lev Yashin as far as I'm aware remains the only GK to have one won the award.

I know Fabio Cannavaro won in 2006 but no defender has since and not sure about before that.
		
Click to expand...

There was a year when Bayern were dominant and Neuer should have won. Bonnucci, Lam, endless others. Not as sexy as the big two so they get ovelooked. I stopped following this a while ago, it is a back slapping exercise similar to film awards. (grumpy moment )


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 1, 2019)

For me Iâ€™d go with Ten Hag, but as others have said. Klopp isnâ€™t a bad choice either. Wouldnâ€™t go for Pep, technically worse in the league than the previous and domestic cup success is irrelevant.

Re player of the year. I think it should be Virgil, but the argument about one poor game for Messi (second leg) could be countered by VVD not being great in first leg.  It sure the Copa America has ever really been used as a deciding factor. 

Iâ€™d like to see VVD win, but would not be at all surprised if the media darling gets it.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 1, 2019)

I know they want rid of Lukaku, but why are United stockpiling wingers and attacking mids by potentially bringing Dybala in? Their squad is woefully light on decent centre backs, yet they're trying to add Dybala to the list of Martial, Lingard, Sanchez, Mata, James, & arguably stepping on the toes of Pogba as well if he doesn't leave. Seems like the balance is totally off. They're not exactly blessed with good holding midfield players either. It's like a Ferrari with moped engine at the minute.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 1, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I know they want rid of Lukaku, but why are United stockpiling wingers and attacking mids by potentially bringing Dybala in? Their squad is woefully light on decent centre backs, yet they're trying to add Dybala to the list of Martial, Lingard, Sanchez, Mata, James, & arguably stepping on the toes of Pogba as well if he doesn't leave. Seems like the balance is totally off. They're not exactly blessed with good holding midfield players either. It's like a Ferrari with moped engine at the minute.
		
Click to expand...

As a City fan reading that last sentence. Music to my ears.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 1, 2019)

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 1, 2019)

Is that DVD real? Asking for a friend.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 1, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			F1 money has ruined the sport decades ago and so we all know its basically a two team event. My point was these awards seemingly go to managers with large budgets, better resources and rarely does a role like Espirito Santo and guiding Wolves to 7th and Europa league get the recognition it deserves.
		
Click to expand...

They have done in the past though, George Burley, Tony Pulis and  Pardew have won it with lesser sides.


----------



## Jensen (Aug 1, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 27874
View attachment 27876
ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Gotta start somewhere ðŸ˜˜


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 2, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1157237747574345728
Can't say I've heard much about him, but seems to be our replacement for Gueye. Hopefully he's decent.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Aug 2, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Gotta start somewhere ðŸ˜˜
		
Click to expand...

And finish at the same time....


----------



## ger147 (Aug 2, 2019)

Â£80m fee agreed for Maguire to move from Leicester to Man Utd.


----------



## fundy (Aug 2, 2019)

ger147 said:



			Â£80m fee agreed for Maguire to move from Leicester to Man Utd.
		
Click to expand...

sounds like Leicester going to pay Â£45m for Dunk from Brighton to replace him


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 2, 2019)

fundy said:



			sounds like Leicester going to pay Â£45m for Dunk from Brighton to replace him 

Click to expand...

Â£80mil for Maguire is madness - decent defender but Â£80mil ðŸ˜²

And then Â£45mil for Dunk ðŸ˜²ðŸ˜²ðŸ˜²ðŸ˜²ðŸ˜²

Madness


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 2, 2019)

Â£80m. We got Boly for Â£10m and he's better.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 2, 2019)

Reminds me of the torres/Carroll circus. 
Newcastle were laughing then. 

Brighton will be now!


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 2, 2019)

Story's been going around for a while so should have got my head around it by now, but I just can't, Â£80m for Maguire is an insane amount of money. Not to say he's bad, but this is a world record for a defender, it's absolute insanity. There must be better options around Europe for cheaper - I'm thinking Ruben Dias, Milan Skriniar, Jonathan Tah, all would have been cheaper and probably better and I imagine Nathan Ake would have been significantly cheaper too.


----------



## Slime (Aug 2, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Â£80mil for Maguire is madness - decent defender but Â£80mil ðŸ˜²

And then Â£45mil for Dunk ðŸ˜²ðŸ˜²ðŸ˜²ðŸ˜²ðŸ˜²

Madness
		
Click to expand...

The cost of players is so silly that it's becoming largely meaningless and irrelevant.
It's now just a number.
The thing is that Maguire is making United a stronger team and that's all that matters these days.
They'll get most of that back by selling Lukaku, that makes it a good deal in my eyes.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 2, 2019)

Slime said:



			The cost of players is so silly that it's becoming largely meaningless and irrelevant.
It's now just a number.
The thing is that Maguire is making United a stronger team and that's all that matters these days.
They'll get most of that back by selling Lukaku, that makes it a good deal in my eyes.
		
Click to expand...

Are you meant to be swapping Lukaku for Dybala?


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 2, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Story's been going around for a while so should have got my head around it by now, but I just can't, Â£80m for Maguire is an insane amount of money. Not to say he's bad, but this is a world record for a defender, it's absolute insanity. There must be better options around Europe for cheaper - I'm thinking Ruben Dias, Milan Skriniar, Jonathan Tah, all would have been cheaper and probably better and I imagine Nathan Ake would have been significantly cheaper too.
		
Click to expand...

Â£59m release clause for Dias as well. Utd paying the English tax.


----------



## Slime (Aug 2, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Are you meant to be swapping Lukaku for Dybala?
		
Click to expand...

I don't think Dybala will sign due to his wage demands.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 2, 2019)

Slime said:



			I don't think Dybala will sign due to his wage demands.
		
Click to expand...

Will Juve or anyone else actually stump up cash for Lukaku? Been talk all summer and yet no Â£80m bid yet...


----------



## fundy (Aug 2, 2019)

Slime said:



			The cost of players is so silly that it's becoming largely meaningless and irrelevant.
It's now just a number.
The thing is that Maguire is making United a stronger team and that's all that matters these days.
They'll get most of that back by selling Lukaku, that makes it a good deal in my eyes.
		
Click to expand...


sorry how is it largely meaningless and irrelevant? Surely its more relevant than ever as it gets more and more obscene! especially as it filters down into the costs of the fans


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 2, 2019)

Slime said:



			The cost of players is so silly that it's becoming largely meaningless and irrelevant.
It's now just a number.
The thing is that Maguire is making United a stronger team and that's all that matters these days.
They'll get most of that back by selling Lukaku, that makes it a good deal in my eyes.
		
Click to expand...

You just need to find someone who is willing to take Lukaku of your hands for the reported fee - no one appears to want to pay the reported Â£80mil

And yep Maguire is better than Jones etc but Â£80mil is madness for a decent Prem CB - Edit- itâ€™s Â£85 mil ðŸ˜²ðŸ˜²ðŸ˜²ðŸ˜²


----------



## ColchesterFC (Aug 2, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You just need to find someone who is willing to take Lukaku of your hands for the reported fee - no one appears to want to pay the reported Â£80mil

And yep Maguire is better than Jones etc but Â£80mil is madness for a decent Prem CB - Edit- itâ€™s Â£85 mil ðŸ˜²ðŸ˜²ðŸ˜²ðŸ˜²
		
Click to expand...

To be fair though LP it wasn't that long ago that many people (myself included) were questioning the Â£75 million that Liverpool paid for VVD. If Maguire has the same effect on the defence at Man U that VVD has had at Liverpool then it's money well spent. Only time will tell if this is a good signing or not.


----------



## Slime (Aug 2, 2019)

fundy said:



			sorry how is it largely meaningless and irrelevant? Surely its more relevant than ever as it gets more and more obscene! especially as it filters down into the costs of the fans
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, I meant meaningless to the football clubs.
To the supporters it's eye watering.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 2, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			To be fair though LP it wasn't that long ago that many people (myself included) were questioning the Â£75 million that Liverpool paid for VVD. If Maguire has the same effect on the defence at Man U that VVD has had at Liverpool then it's money well spent. Only time will tell if this is a good signing or not.
		
Click to expand...

As a Saints fan, I can tell you most of us whilst accepting it was too good an offer to refuse, especially after he downed tools certainly didnâ€™t think it was an outrageous offer. Imo he was the best cb in the league and has improved since. 

Iâ€™m not sure many Leicester fans would honestly say the same about Maguire.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 2, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			To be fair though LP it wasn't that long ago that many people (myself included) were questioning the Â£75 million that Liverpool paid for VVD. If Maguire has the same effect on the defence at Man U that VVD has had at Liverpool then it's money well spent. Only time will tell if this is a good signing or not.
		
Click to expand...

For me VVD ability was clear as day and we were buying the best CB in the Prem - I donâ€™t think Maguire is anywhere near his level and not even the best English CB. And how much did De Ligt go for ? Â£50 ish mil ?!


----------



## Wolf (Aug 2, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			For me VVD ability was clear as day and we were buying the best CB in the Prem - I donâ€™t think Maguire is anywhere near his level and not even the best English CB. And how much did De Ligt go for ? Â£50 ish mil ?!
		
Click to expand...

Tbh I'd have to agree with every word of that. 

Maguire is a decent CB and will improve their defence purely because the rest are garbage. But when you see De Ligt going for 50m it just shows you how over priced the slightly above average English player is supposedly worth.


----------



## fundy (Aug 2, 2019)

oh come on you lot are over egging this English price thing, are you really telling me you think De Ligt should be worth more than Â£5m more than Lewis Dunk ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 2, 2019)

VVD was lauded before he moved to Liverpool, most people could see he was an excellent CB at Southampton and Celtic, but thought that the price was slightly inflated at the time but not completely ludicrous, turned out he was worth every penny. Maguire's best known most for chatting his GF up after a WC match, having a big head and being a decent but fairly slow defender. He's probably an improvement for United, but Â£80m is *crazy* money.

Had an email from Everton. Gbamin is official, nice to have another midfielder in. Apparently Kean could be announced tomorrow.


----------



## Slime (Aug 2, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You just need to find someone who is willing to take Lukaku of your hands for the reported fee - no one appears to want to pay the reported Â£80mil

And yep Maguire is better than Jones etc but Â£80mil is madness for a decent Prem CB -* Edit- itâ€™s Â£85 mil* ðŸ˜²ðŸ˜²ðŸ˜²ðŸ˜²
		
Click to expand...

No, I believe it's Â£80M ........................................... *possibly* rising to Â£85M.
Now we have to get Bruno Fernandes, he's the important one ........................... the game changer!


----------



## Pin-seeker (Aug 2, 2019)

Coutinho back to Liverpool is the current rumour.


----------



## Wolf (Aug 2, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			Coutinho back to Liverpool is the current rumour.
		
Click to expand...

According to some muppets on social media its rumoured he's going to us as wellðŸ™„

Can see it now he'd make a banging centre back alongside Mustafi ðŸ˜‚


----------



## fundy (Aug 2, 2019)

From Twitter:

Samantha Quek
@SamanthaQuek
Iâ€™m confident enough to say Iâ€™ll present Match of the Day in my underpants if Maguire and Lindelof concede fewer goals than Van Dijk + ANY other he lines up along side this season... #NotGonnaHappen

Lots cheering the United defense all of a sudden


----------



## Pin-seeker (Aug 2, 2019)

fundy said:



			From Twitter:

Samantha Quek
@SamanthaQuek
Iâ€™m confident enough to say Iâ€™ll present Match of the Day in my underpants if Maguire and Lindelof concede fewer goals than Van Dijk + ANY other he lines up along side this season... #NotGonnaHappen

Lots cheering the United defense all of a sudden 

Click to expand...

Fit but annoying when she starts talking ðŸ˜£


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 2, 2019)

fundy said:



			From Twitter:

Samantha Quek
@SamanthaQuek
Iâ€™m confident enough to say Iâ€™ll present Match of the Day in my underpants if Maguire and Lindelof concede fewer goals than Van Dijk + ANY other he lines up along side this season... #NotGonnaHappen

Lots cheering the United defense all of a sudden 

Click to expand...

She's back tracked a little after someone pointed that if one of em got injured after 1 game together then she'd be buggered. ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 3, 2019)

Slime said:



			Now we have to get Bruno Fernandes, he's the important one ........................... the game changer!
		
Click to expand...

Not sure he is. Bruno Fernandes is fantastic, and incredibly talented, but the gap in your team is not where Fernandes plays. He's a creative, attacking minded midfielder - you've already got Pogba, Mata, Lingard, and potentially Dybala coming in. You don't need Fernandes as well. United should be looking at guys like Lucas Tousart, Sandro Tonali, Declan Rice, Thomas Partey, or should have snapped up Rodri before City got him. They would all fill a gap in the United squad that needs bolstering, Fernandes is too similar to what you've already got.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 3, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Not sure he is. Bruno Fernandes is fantastic, and incredibly talented, but the gap in your team is not where Fernandes plays. He's a creative, attacking minded midfielder - you've already got Pogba, Mata, Lingard, and potentially Dybala coming in. You don't need Fernandes as well. United should be looking at guys like Lucas Tousart, Sandro Tonali, Declan Rice, Thomas Partey, or should have snapped up Rodri before City got him. They would all fill a gap in the United squad that needs bolstering, Fernandes is too similar to what you've already got.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe they've decided to go the Newcastle route... 

I mean if a manager gets em onside then they'll be fun to watch. 

All those players could play some great footy. 4-3 everyweek, with the odd 0-4 when they play a decent team....


----------



## Slime (Aug 3, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Not sure he is. Bruno Fernandes is fantastic, and incredibly talented, but the gap in your team is not where Fernandes plays. He's a creative, attacking minded midfielder - *you've already got Pogba, Mata, Lingard, and potentially Dybala coming in*. You don't need Fernandes as well. United should be looking at guys like Lucas Tousart, Sandro Tonali, Declan Rice, Thomas Partey, or should have snapped up Rodri before City got him. They would all fill a gap in the United squad that needs bolstering, Fernandes is too similar to what you've already got.
		
Click to expand...

Pogba might not stay, I hope he does if he's wearing the correct head!
Mata is too slow and Lingard is not in the same cass as Fernandes, and never will be.
I don't think Dybala will come, but he's a different player to Fernandes.
Oh, and Fernandes can play in the defensive midfield role quite comfortably.

Our new defensive set up is infinitely stronger that we finished with last season.
De Gea, AWB, Lindelof, Maguire and Shaw ........................... I can't think of many better in the Prem.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 3, 2019)

Slime said:



			Pogba might not stay, I hope he does if he's wearing the correct head!
Mata is too slow and Lingard is not in the same cass as Fernandes, and never will be.
I don't think Dybala will come, but he's a different player to Fernandes.
Oh, and Fernandes can play in the defensive midfield role quite comfortably.

Our new defensive set up is infinitely stronger that we finished with last season.
*De Gea, AWB, Lindelof, Maguire and Shaw *........................... I can't think of many better in the Prem.
		
Click to expand...

The 4 teams that finished in CL places have better settled defences imo.

Lots of questions over yours imo.

De Gea is in for a big season. Lots of credit in the bank, but since last World Cup his performances have been mere mortal.

Lindelof has improved massively, time to show he's the real deal.

Maguire, better than what you had, but imo living off a world cup where we beat nobody special.

Shaw looking like the player before his injury. England LB imo if he's fit for a year.

AWB, this season will show if he's good or had a blinder.

Certainly promising compared to what youve had, but with a weak midfield I'd say they could be got at.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 3, 2019)

Slime said:



			Pogba might not stay, I hope he does if he's wearing the correct head!
Mata is too slow and Lingard is not in the same cass as Fernandes, and never will be.
I don't think Dybala will come, but he's a different player to Fernandes.
*Oh, and Fernandes can play in the defensive midfield role quite comfortably.*

Our new defensive set up is infinitely stronger that we finished with last season.
De Gea, AWB, Lindelof, Maguire and Shaw ........................... I can't think of many better in the Prem.
		
Click to expand...

Really ? - are you sure youâ€™re not thinking of someone else , he is a pure attacking midfielder and as someone already said itâ€™s a buy in an area that doesnâ€™t seem to be needed - spend Â£50mil etc on someone like Rice and thatâ€™s a big difference to the team


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 3, 2019)

Yet more tinkering with the rules for this season. Will no doubt be the usual clampdowns early on and then common sense prevailing. Are these rule changes a good thing?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48965849


----------



## huds1475 (Aug 4, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maguire is  not even the best English CB.
		
Click to expand...

Name one, PL proven, that would be available for less than Â£80m in current market.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 4, 2019)

Smalling or Jones for a start..... ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 4, 2019)

huds1475 said:



			Name one, PL proven, that would be available for less than Â£80m in current market.
		
Click to expand...

Dunk 
Aldeirweld
Tarkowski
Lascelles
Boly
Coady
Duffy
Diop
Verthongen
Lejeune

Harry Maguire is the most expensive CB , went for more than De Ligt did and is in the top 10 transfers of all time - Harry Maguire a decent CB but no more than that  and prob worth Â£40mil when you consider DeLigt went for Â£65mil and VVD Â£75mil and he isnâ€™t anywhere near their level. Shows how desperate Utd are paying that sort of money


----------



## PieMan (Aug 4, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Smalling or Jones for a start..... ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

100% proven.......to be utter pants!!!ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## chrisd (Aug 4, 2019)

huds1475 said:



			Name one, PL proven, that would be available for less than Â£80m in current market.
		
Click to expand...

Tony Adams


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 4, 2019)

Missus just text me. 

"@&Â£@(*! I forgot its the charity shield today" 

She's on her way to London for work from Kent. Must be all those fans who's grandads are from up north(ish).


----------



## huds1475 (Aug 4, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Dunk
Aldeirweld
Tarkowski
Lascelles
Boly
Coady
Duffy
Diop
Verthongen
Lejeune

Harry Maguire is the most expensive CB , went for more than De Ligt did and is in the top 10 transfers of all time - Harry Maguire a decent CB but no more than that  and prob worth Â£40mil when you consider DeLigt went for Â£65mil and VVD Â£75mil and he isnâ€™t anywhere near their level. Shows how desperate Utd are paying that sort of money
		
Click to expand...

Great list.

Doesn't answer the question though.

Phil said "Maguire is not even the best English CB."

And I asked you to name one (English CB, better than Macguire) that is proven and would be available for less than Â£80m.


----------



## Beezerk (Aug 4, 2019)

LPL in "slagging off any other teams transfer" shocker


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 4, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Harry Maguire is the most expensive CB , went for more than De Ligt did and is in the top 10 transfers of all time - Harry Maguire a decent CB but no more than that  and prob worth Â£40mil when you consider DeLigt went for Â£65mil and VVD Â£75mil and he isnâ€™t anywhere near their level. Shows how desperate Utd are paying that sort of money
		
Click to expand...

Sadly, football transfers arenâ€™t a true reflection of players ability/Value anymore. That ship sailed a long long time ago.

Yernited have improved their defence which for them was badly needed. Theyâ€™re not in the lofty the position they once where  of being able to attract the cream, settling for Maguire.

Supply and demand.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 4, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Sadly, football transfers arenâ€™t a true reflection of players ability/Value anymore. That ship sailed a long long time ago.

Yernited have improved their defence which for them was badly needed. Theyâ€™re not in the lofty the position they once where  of being able to attract the cream, settling for Maguire.

Supply and demand.
		
Click to expand...

I heard an old school manager on the radio the other day, can't remember which one, talking about if utd enquire after you, you go. 10yrs ago probably yes. Now, not really. Particularly to overseas players, apart from big wages are they anymore attractive than AC Milan or other fallen giants?


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 4, 2019)

Anyway, yernited who? The Unbearables are back at Wemberlee, let the haters hate mutha fuchaz âœŒ


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 4, 2019)

Everton has signed Moises Kean from Juventus. Young striker who will hopefully settle in quickly. We are, potentially, having a very tidy window.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 4, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I heard an old school manager on the radio the other day, can't remember which one, talking about if utd enquire after you, you go. 10yrs ago probably yes. Now, not really. Particularly to overseas players, apart from big wages are they anymore attractive than AC Milan or other fallen giants?
		
Click to expand...

They're still  a massive club.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 4, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			They're still  a massive club.
		
Click to expand...

They are, as are AC Milan, but they are no longer stand out. If you aren't in the CL, not threatening for the title the gravitas stops to drop away. 

If you are a top player from Argentina or Brazil now are you jumping to sign for utd above all others or are you in a group along with city, liverpool, Chelsea now? Probably behind those first 2 at this moment. Times have changed, similar to liverpool after your golden era. It didn't stop you from being a massive club, you just stopped being THE club.


----------



## larmen (Aug 4, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Everton has signed Moises Kean from Juventus. Young striker who will hopefully settle in quickly. We are, potentially, having a very tidy window.
		
Click to expand...

For me Everton is this yearâ€™s Leicester. Worth a Â£5 punt at 200/1. Unlikely that anyone outside the top teams wins, but hey, Leicester wasnâ€™t likely either.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 4, 2019)

larmen said:



			For me Everton is this yearâ€™s Leicester. Worth a Â£5 punt at 200/1. Unlikely that anyone outside the top teams wins, but hey, Leicester wasnâ€™t likely either.
		
Click to expand...

I was chatting with my son about the league last night. We were both saying how it looks like the teams in the second mini league in the PL have bought well this summer. I'm not expecting another Leicester but i can see the likes of Everton, Leicester, West Ham, Wolves (if the Europa league doesn't do a number on them) genuinely pushing some of the regular top 6 out of the way this year. They are gathering better players and should threaten anyone wobbling, arsenal being the obvious one to be overtaken.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 4, 2019)

Properly excited about the Moise Kean signing, he has so much potential. We're building a very exciting young attack. Kean is 19, Richarlison is 22, DCL is 22, potential for real long-term success from them 3. Also added Gbamin to the squad who's only 23, Mina's 24, Holgate looks set to break through this year also 22, and Tom Davies is only 21. Nice core of talented young players.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 4, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Properly excited about the Moise Kean signing, he has so much potential. We're building a very exciting young attack. Kean is 19, Richarlison is 22, DCL is 22, potential for real long-term success from them 3. Also added Gbamin to the squad who's only 23, Mina's 24, Holgate looks set to break through this year also 22, and Tom Davies is only 21. Nice core of talented young players.
		
Click to expand...

I'm a big fan of Tom Davies. I hope he doesn't get squeezed out this year.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 4, 2019)

Some poor finishing from Liverpool there should never have got to pens.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 4, 2019)

huds1475 said:



			Great list.

Doesn't answer the question though.

Phil said "Maguire is not even the best English CB."

And I asked you to name one (English CB, better than Macguire) that is proven and would be available for less than Â£80m.
		
Click to expand...

You may have got yourself confused but this is your exact question 



huds1475 said:



			Name one, PL proven, that would be available for less than Â£80m in current market.
		
Click to expand...

You didnâ€™t ask â€œwho is English and better than Maguireâ€ did you - above was your direct quote of which I gave you a list - so yes I did answer your question

If you want a list of better than Maguire for under Â£80mil then most on that list is valid as well except I would put â€” Dunk , Coady , Lejeune at the same level as Maguire , I think Tarkoswki is a better defender - English and less than 80mil but then the signing they should have looked at was Alderwield - far better defender and available for Â£25mil until Friday .


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 4, 2019)

Why do they have to be PL proven? PL players seem to have crazy inflated prices right now so why bother when you could go for someone like Skriniar or Dias for cheaper. Newcastle picked up Schar for barely anything last year and he was fantastic, it's just picking the right player and there are way better ways to spend Â£80m than on Maguire.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 4, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Why do they have to be PL proven? PL players seem to have crazy inflated prices right now so why bother when you could go for someone like Skriniar or Dias for cheaper. Newcastle picked up Schar for barely anything last year and he was fantastic, it's just picking the right player and there are way better ways to spend Â£80m than on Maguire.
		
Click to expand...

Fully agree - 6 weeks ago the price for Maguire was Â£80mil , they wanted him , didnâ€™t go for anyone else so why did they wait for 6 weeks ? There was a caller on the radio and he says most Utd fans canâ€™t believe Woodward is still there - everything is going through him and he has no clue about the sport hence these mad fees since Ferguson left ( think itâ€™s a billion now spent since he left and all under Woodward ) 

For the Â£80mil they could have got Alderwied and then spent Â£50plus mil on a defensive mid and that would have given them a team to worry about


----------



## hairball_89 (Aug 4, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Fully agree - 6 weeks ago the price for Maguire was Â£80mil , they wanted him , didnâ€™t go for anyone else so why did they wait for 6 weeks ? There was a caller on the radio and he says most Utd fans canâ€™t believe Woodward is still there - everything is going through him and he has no clue about the sport hence these mad fees since Ferguson left ( think itâ€™s a billion now spent since he left and all under Woodward )

For the Â£80mil they could have got Alderwied and then spent Â£50plus mil on a defensive mid and that would have given them a team to worry about
		
Click to expand...

Isn't Tarkowski's release clause Â£50m? I'm not a huge fan, but he's easily on par with Maguire. Alderweireld AND tarkowski, with Lindelof (if he continues to improve) is a great choice of 3 centre halves. 

But, Maguire could come in, transform the defence and score a few a la VVD. Who knows*? 

*Not me, but i've got a good idea it's not quite going to work like that!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 4, 2019)

hairball_89 said:



			Isn't Tarkowski's release clause Â£50m? I'm not a huge fan, but he's easily on par with Maguire. Alderweireld AND tarkowski, with Lindelof (if he continues to improve) is a great choice of 3 centre halves.

But, Maguire could come in, transform the defence and score a few a la VVD. Who knows*?

*Not me, but i've got a good idea it's not quite going to work like that!
		
Click to expand...

If that is his release clause then itâ€™s a better deal - and as you say add in Alderweild for Â£25 mil and your back line is far better


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 4, 2019)

Re Utd and transfers, for me it's a sticky one. When City strarted splashing the cash. city bought Robinho and Utd bought Berbatov from Spurs. Fergie went on record and said that Utd will never be in a position where they will be desperate/panic to buy players. Think that bridge was passed sometime ago. Players like Sanchez etc went there for one thing, money. They haven't contributed. City are now in a position where they will not be held to ransom when buying players. Some like VVD slip through the fingers. Others like Sanchez. Thank god he never came.
Re Maguire, I like him, I like him a lot. But is he worth Â£80 million. Time will tell but they have bought him from a notoriously difficult club to buy players from. Ave said this and al say it again. The problems for me at Utd are not just the players, but the person buying them? Woodward. Until the right manager is instilled that gets the best out of the players already there, I cannot see them improving. 
Looking at how Everton, Leicester, Wolves, etc are doing business. I can see this being another painful season for Rags. Part of me is doing cartwheels, but if I am honest. I would love to See the top six being closed down by the afore mentioned clubs.
Looking forward to the season.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 4, 2019)

Another close game at Wemberlee,  thought we should've won it but hey ho it's only a glorified friendly.

Looking forward to friday night now to get the new season underway.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Aug 4, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1158072309065891846
Someone shouldâ€™ve told em itâ€™s only a friendly ðŸ™ˆðŸ˜‚


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 4, 2019)

Maguire is a good piece of business for Man Utd, young England international that has a long career still in front of him. 

No worse than signing VVD for Â£75M IMO.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 4, 2019)

What a bunch of absolute weapons.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 4, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			What a bunch of absolute weapons.
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool fans again and cant hear 1 scouse accent in that video ðŸ¤”


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 4, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Maguire is a good piece of business for Man Utd, young England international that has a long career still in front of him.

No worse than signing VVD for Â£75M IMO.
		
Click to expand...

Van Dijk fee seemed ridiculous and that was even considering he was in the top 2 or 3 CBs in the league already. Maguire is barely in the top ten centre backs in the league for me. Leicester have done a number on United and ripped them right off. The fee will be forgotten if he does well, but a couple of early errors and it will hang heavy around his neck.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Van Dijk fee seemed ridiculous and that was even considering he was in the top 2 or 3 CBs in the league already. Maguire is barely in the top ten centre backs in the league for me. Leicester have done a number on United and ripped them right off. The fee will be forgotten if he does well, but a couple of early errors and it will hang heavy around his neck.
		
Click to expand...

Factor in the shambles that happened 6 months earlier VVD was probably Â£15m overpriced, Maguire's  Â£50m overpriced ðŸ˜‰


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Van Dijk fee seemed ridiculous and that was even considering he was in the top 2 or 3 CBs in the league already. Maguire is barely in the top ten centre backs in the league for me. Leicester have done a number on United and ripped them right off. The fee will be forgotten if he does well, but a couple of early errors and it will hang heavy around his neck.
		
Click to expand...

You could be right about the level of expectation and the price tag laying heavy. I am not convinced he's worth that sort of money, yet but he could develop into a world class player (although again not sure OGS is the one to do it). Trouble is, lots of PL sides seem bereft of good CB's and so with a limited pool of top players what are the alternatives?


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 4, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			You could be right about the level of expectation and the price tag laying heavy. I am not convinced he's worth that sort of money, yet but he could develop into a world class player (although again not sure OGS is the one to do it). Trouble is, lots of PL sides seem bereft of good CB's and so with a limited pool of top players what are the alternatives?
		
Click to expand...

I think the limited pool means go abroad as City did for Laporte and the new holding midfielder. I think the money would of been better invested in getting a world class manager. I would of broken the bank for Simeone.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 4, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			I think the limited pool means go abroad as City did for Laporte and the new holding midfielder. I think the money would of been better invested in getting a world class manager. I would of broken the bank for Simeone.
		
Click to expand...

I like Simeone, but hes very much a type of manager whose very methodical and tries to stifle games. Not too sure Yernited fans would put up with that type  of football, though I could be wrong.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 4, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			I think the limited pool means go abroad as City did for Laporte and the new holding midfielder. I think the money would of been better invested in getting a world class manager. I would of broken the bank for Simeone.
		
Click to expand...

Abroad seems to be a sensible option but again who is available. I wonder why clubs aren't looking at the South American leagues. Must be some emerging talent in places like Argentina and Brazil that could be available relatively cheaply and moulded into great players (and sold on for a heft profit). Where are all the top club scouts? Quality CB's are definitely a rare commodity it seems


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 4, 2019)

United have pulled the plug on pursuing Dybala https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49230085


----------



## NWJocko (Aug 4, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Fully agree - 6 weeks ago the price for Maguire was Â£80mil , they wanted him , didnâ€™t go for anyone else so why did they wait for 6 weeks ? There was a caller on the radio and he says most Utd fans canâ€™t believe Woodward is still there - everything is going through him and he has no clue about the sport hence these mad fees since Ferguson left ( think itâ€™s a billion now spent since he left and all under Woodward )

For the Â£80mil they could have got Alderwied and then spent Â£50plus mil on a defensive mid and that would have given them a team to worry about
		
Click to expand...

If Liverpool had the nous then 18 months before they bought VVD they could have had him for Â£6m from Celtic tbf   They need a centre half and pay what they needed to I guess, same as you did for Allison and VVD.

Money in England is absolutely insane now so no transfer fee makes sense, Jesus wept McBurnie went for Â£20m the other day, on that scale Tierney should cost Arsenal about Â£100m


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 4, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Abroad seems to be a sensible option but again who is available.* I wonder why clubs aren't looking at the South American leagues. *Must be some emerging talent in places like Argentina and Brazil that could be available relatively cheaply and moulded into great players (and sold on for a heft profit). Where are all the top club scouts? Quality CB's are definitely a rare commodity it seems
		
Click to expand...

Unless they're already established internationals  then we struggle getting work permits for South American Players.


----------



## hairball_89 (Aug 4, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Abroad seems to be a sensible option but again who is available. I wonder why clubs aren't looking at the South American leagues. Must be some emerging talent in places like Argentina and Brazil that could be available relatively cheaply and moulded into great players (and sold on for a heft profit). Where are all the top club scouts? Quality CB's are definitely a rare commodity it seems
		
Click to expand...

Simple issue I'd imagine - they more than likely won't get a work permit. The ones that are big enough names to get a work permit wouldn't be the good deals.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 4, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I like Simeone, but hes very much a type of manager whose very methodical and tries to stifle games. Not too sure Yernited fans would put up with that type  of football, though I could be wrong.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree bit he's better than some of the rubbish they have had. ðŸ‘


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 4, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Totally agree bit he's better than some of the rubbish they have had. ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Keep OGS at all costs ðŸ¤­ðŸ¤­


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 4, 2019)

hairball_89 said:



			Simple issue I'd imagine - they more than likely won't get a work permit. The ones that are big enough names to get a work permit wouldn't be the good deals.
		
Click to expand...

This. City bought a player who could 
not get a work permit. He has now gone to Villa.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 4, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I like Simeone, but hes very much a type of manager whose very methodical and tries to stifle games. Not too sure Yernited fans would put up with that type  of football, though I could be wrong.
		
Click to expand...

I agree - Iâ€™m still amazed they didnâ€™t wait until the summer to offer the job to OGS especially when every man and his dog knew that there was a very high chance of Allegri leaving - if they had waited they could have got him and then a number of decent players.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 4, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			This. City bought a player who could
not get a work permit. He has now gone to Villa.
		
Click to expand...

Sensible question as I don't know the answer, if he couldn't get a work permit at City how did he get one for Villa?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 4, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I like Simeone, but hes very much a type of manager whose very methodical and tries to stifle games. Not too sure Yernited fans would put up with that type  of football, though I could be wrong.
		
Click to expand...

They've had Mourinho and van Gaal in recent years, is Simeone much different? Not been happy but they still put up with it, as fans do. 

I wouldn't want him managing my team, I get your point.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 4, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Unless they're already established internationals  then we struggle getting work permits for South American Players.
		
Click to expand...

Post Brexit there is a chance it could also go the same way with some EU countries etc - no idea whatâ€™s in place for working visas ?


----------



## Karl102 (Aug 4, 2019)

Please Utd have ended talks with Dybala after what I believe were ridiculous wage demands and outrageous agents fees... still need to offload Lukaku tho...


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 4, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sensible question as I don't know the answer, if he couldn't get a work permit at City how did he get one for Villa?
		
Click to expand...

I dont know who you're talking about but I'd guess hes probably had a spell in Portugal or spain to get a EU Permit.


----------



## GG26 (Aug 4, 2019)

Sad to see Maguire go, you could tell he was a class CB right from his first game for us a couple of seasons back, the downside is that being good on the ball he would often manage to get to the edge of the opposition box, before a misplaced pass left Morgan and Simpson exposed on the break.  Was better at judging his runs this last season and he is good at distributing the ball.  Should have been made captain IMO.  He's also my Mum's favourite player!


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 4, 2019)

One defender from South America I've got my eye on over the next few years is Walter Kannemann. Currently playing for Gremio and is Argentinian but has German dual-nationality so WP's aren't an issue. He's played for Argentina, is strong as an ox, brilliant tackler, reads the game well and can pass. There were rumours he was off to Arsenal early in the summer and is now being linked with Roma, reckon we'll see him appear in a top league in the near future.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 4, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They've had Mourinho and van Gaal in recent years, is Simeone much different? Not been happy but they still put up with it, as fans do.

I wouldn't want him managing my team, I get your point.
		
Click to expand...

No he's not, but the fans will only put up with so much and that's my point. 

Ask most match going  Yernited fan's whether they'd like to watch another 12months of  LVG/JM type of football, 8 doubt they'd say yes.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 4, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I dont know who you're talking about but I'd guess hes probably had a spell in Portugal or spain to get a EU Permit.
		
Click to expand...

Guess itâ€™s Luiz - played over in Spain for 2 years , sold for about Â£15mil


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 4, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Post Brexit there is a chance it could also go the same way with some EU countries etc - no idea whatâ€™s in place for working visas ?
		
Click to expand...

Shush with your " Project Fear" ðŸ˜‰


----------



## GG26 (Aug 4, 2019)

I see that Godin went to Inter early on in the transfer window.  Best CB that I've seen.  Not one for the long term, but could have done a job for OGS, whilst getting his team together over the next season or two.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 4, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sensible question as I don't know the answer, if he couldn't get a work permit at City how did he get one for Villa?
		
Click to expand...

The player is called Douglas Luis. City couldn't get a work permit for him As he it was thought he wouldn't get enough game time. Which wont be an issue at Villa. He spent last year on loan at Girona. By all accounts he is a decent player.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 4, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Unless they're already established internationals  then we struggle getting work permits for South American Players.
		
Click to expand...

I've always thought this rule was ridiculous. Especially now. They're going to pay loads of tax, considering we give permits to people to work here in significantly lower paid roles.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 4, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			The player is called Douglas Luis. City couldn't get a work permit for him As he it was thought he wouldn't get enough game time. Which wont be an issue at Villa. He spent last year on loan at Girona. By all accounts he is a decent player.
		
Click to expand...

Begs the question (in my mind anyway) why did City buy him if they weren't certain of getting a WP for him?


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 4, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I agree - Iâ€™m still amazed they didnâ€™t wait until the summer to offer the job to OGS especially when every man and his dog knew that there was a very high chance of Allegri leaving - if they had waited they could have got him and then a number of decent players.
		
Click to expand...

I genuinely think they would have got Poch if they had been sensible. 

Knows the English game and is ambitious. Reckon he'd have won something with UTD before he wins anything with spurs. 

May stop happen in a year.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 4, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Begs the question (in my mind anyway) why did City buy him if they weren't certain of getting a WP for him?
		
Click to expand...

Â£4.5 million profit. That could be part of the reason


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 4, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I genuinely think they would have got Poch if they had been sensible.

Knows the English game and is ambitious. Reckon he'd have won something with UTD before he wins anything with spurs.

May stop happen in a year.
		
Click to expand...

Yep only have to listen to what he says to see that he has itchy feet and wants to go to a â€œbigâ€ club and Utd despite their issues over the years are still a big club. Have a feeling next summer will be when he moves on


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 4, 2019)

Ainsley Maitland Niles. Oops. What were you thinking. Idiot. It's a glorified friendly, but wow, what a mistake.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 4, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I've always thought this rule was ridiculous. Especially now. They're going to pay loads of tax, considering we give permits to people to work here in significantly lower paid roles.
		
Click to expand...

I think it's to stop clubs buying really young South Americans cheap and flooding  their academies and stopping the development of homegrown players


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 4, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Begs the question (in my mind anyway) why did City buy him if they weren't certain of getting a WP for him?
		
Click to expand...

Buy him, loan him to get experience and a WP ,then either bring him back if he develops or sell him if he doesn't cut the mustard. Simple really.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 4, 2019)

Karl102 said:



			Please Utd have ended talks with Dybala after what I believe were ridiculous wage demands and outrageous agents fees... *still need to offload Lukaku tho*...
		
Click to expand...

Need a replacement before getting rid though Karl.

I said when he signed he wasn't good enough, his level is an Everton level club.

Flat track bully ðŸ‘


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 4, 2019)

Mignolet to Brugge confirmed, just need a  decent #2


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 4, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Mignolet to Brugge confirmed, just need a  decent #2
		
Click to expand...

You've got chocolate wrists Lonergan...


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 4, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			You've got chocolate wrists Lonergan...
		
Click to expand...

Better than Simon "stevie wonder" Mignolet ðŸ˜ 

He had a great game against Sevilla though but to be fair he was only taken on tour as cover.


----------



## hairball_89 (Aug 4, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Mignolet to Brugge confirmed, just need a  decent #2
		
Click to expand...

Don't mind this really. He doesn't owe us anything - been a proper pro over the last few years, supporting the team when out of it. Never really good enough for what we needed and that's shown since Allison has come in and made such a massive difference. 

Imagine we'll go for an older keeper who's cheap and happy to man the bench. Adrian and McCarthy the main shouts apparently. Probably only play 2/3 games so don't really mind who... As long as Allison doesn't break his leg!


----------



## Pin-seeker (Aug 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Liverpool fans again and cant hear 1 scouse accent in that video ðŸ¤”
		
Click to expand...

The bloke shouting â€œHey hey heyâ€ is definitely a scouser ðŸ¤£


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 5, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I've always thought this rule was ridiculous. Especially now. They're going to pay loads of tax, considering we give permits to people to work here in significantly lower paid roles.
		
Click to expand...

They are roles where we have shortages of workers. We have no shortage of average footballers, it can be argued we have a shortage of international standard footballers. Giving a permit to a S.American so he can sit on the bench makes no sense. If he is on the bench, he is not really needed. Why should sport be different to general work?


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 5, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They are roles where we have shortages of workers. We have no shortage of average footballers, it can be argued we have a shortage of international standard footballers. Giving a permit to a S.American so he can sit on the bench makes no sense. If he is on the bench, he is not really needed. Why should sport be different to general work?
		
Click to expand...

My opinion is based purely on a financial aspect. As long as someone contributes financially (taxes), the role they do is imo irrelevant.

In regards to them being average, there's nothing to say an uncapped 20 yr old south american is average. For the big clubs obv they'll generally go for stars and permits won't be an issue, but if a smaller club, say Saints spots someone they think has potential, they have no chance to sign them.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 5, 2019)

Pretty scary that City won the league last year and are adding Rodri and Cancelo to their squad. Can't see anyone getting past them this year. Liverpool haven't signed anyone, United and Arsenal still look a shambles at the back, Chelsea have lost their main man, and Spurs have strengthened but they're still lacking the depth to compete for a full season. Looks like another dominant City season ahead.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 5, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Pretty scary that City won the league last year and are adding Rodri and Cancelo to their squad. Can't see anyone getting past them this year. Liverpool haven't signed anyone, United and Arsenal still look a shambles at the back, Chelsea have lost their main man, and Spurs have strengthened but they're still lacking the depth to compete for a full season. Looks like another dominant City season ahead.
		
Click to expand...

Didnt see all the game yesterday Dan, grandkids etc.  But I was impressed with Citys determination to dig in when Liverpool were dominant. Bravo and Walker who have been poor for City played to there full potential for once.

That aside. How empty was Wemberlee. I had an email a week before saying you can have a family of four tickets for Â£40. They knew the game was between City and Liverpool, why not play it at old Trafford in front of a full house. Less travel, full stadium. You could even put tickets up a tenner and fans would still be in pocket and the FA make more.


----------



## Jensen (Aug 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Liverpool fans again and cant hear 1 scouse accent in that video ðŸ¤”
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure Harry Enfield is floating round in the background ðŸ˜„


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Pretty scary that City won the league last year and are adding Rodri and Cancelo to their squad. Can't see anyone getting past them this year. Liverpool haven't signed anyone, United and Arsenal still look a shambles at the back, Chelsea have lost their main man, and Spurs have strengthened but they're still lacking the depth to compete for a full season. Looks like another dominant City season ahead.
		
Click to expand...

Are they really two signings that are pretty scary ? Rodri is a defensive midfielder who is there when they lose Fernandinho but he wasnâ€™t that impressive last year in La Liga , and Cancelo is a right back/winger so they are just swapping Danilo for him. So itâ€™s a touch stronger in the squad but no real change in the first 11 - and when you take away Kompany they are possibly short a CB to play with Laporte and you can see yesterday when a team went at them they struggle


----------



## Twire (Aug 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Mignolet to Brugge confirmed, just need a  decent #2
		
Click to expand...


Here you go... one of West Hams cast offs 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...e-transfer-former-West-Ham-keeper-Adrian.html


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 5, 2019)

The signings themselves aren't _that _scary on paper, but the fact they're not resting on their laurels and sticking with their squad is what's scary. They're constantly trying to improve. They've identified a potentially weak area in the lack of depth when Fernandinho's not available and another weak area at RB. Cancelo is not only a massive upgrade on Danilo, but he will slot in as their RB full-time, he's one of the best RBs in Europe. Also, Rodri's not the sort of player that will be outwardly impressive, but the role he plays and the job he does is very impressive, and I think he'll play alongside Fernandinho not instead of most of the time. At full strength I see them lining up:

---------------------Ederson----------------------
-------Stones-----Fernandinho----Laporte-----
-Cancelo-----------Rodri------------Mendy-------
---------B Silva-------------KDB---------------------
-------------------Aguero-------------Sterling-------

Won't ever play in a strigent formation like that, but generally that set-up from the start. B Silva plays the role he did last year dropping into midfield where needed but also used on the right. Fernandinho drops into CB when needed otherwise forms a 2 man midfield with Rodri allowing KDB to roam forward and form a 4-man attack on the counter. Looks bloody scary to me.

Liverpool seem content to just continue with what they had last year, which isn't necessarily a bad thing as they did well last year, but when City are still looking to improve I'm surprised Liverpool aren't doing the same.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are they really two signings that are pretty scary ? Rodri is a defensive midfielder who is there when they lose Fernandinho but he wasnâ€™t that impressive last year in La Liga , and Cancelo is a right back/winger so they are just swapping Danilo for him. So itâ€™s a touch stronger in the squad but no real change in the first 11 - and when you take away Kompany they are possibly short a CB to play with Laporte and you can see yesterday when a team went at them they struggle
		
Click to expand...

They certainly still need a centre back. I only saw the 2nd half yesterday, but Otamendi seemed to be playing really well until he made quite a basic error, which is him all over. Stones is the same really. You would think they need to go out and get a high class partner for Laporte to complete the line-up. 




Dan2501 said:



			---------------------Ederson----------------------
-------Stones-----Fernandinho----Laporte-----
-Cancelo-----------Rodri------------Mendy-------
---------B Silva-------------KDB---------------------
-------------------Aguero-------------Sterling-------
		
Click to expand...

I think Walker still starts. I've heard Cancelo is good but not any better than Walker defensively. At best it'll be a 50-50 rotation, but I reckon Walker will start the big games. That bicycle kick off the line yesterday shows how useful he can be. I also think Zinchenko will start the season as first choice. Good though Mendy is, I'm not sure Pep will feel he can rely upon him. With the sheer amount of injuries he's had, I don't think he'll be starting every week regardless.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 5, 2019)

Walker might start the season at RB, but Cancelo will have taken that spot by the end of the season I reckon, he's really good. As for Mendy, he's their #1 LB, but Zinchenko will start the season at LB as Mendy is currently injured. Injuries a real problem for Mendy, but when he's fit he's one of the best LBs in the league.

Also, Fernandinho was a big loss for City yesterday, when he's in the side they're way better defensively. He's back in training so expect him to be back for the start of the season.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2019)

They already bav


Dan2501 said:



			The signings themselves aren't _that _scary on paper, but the fact they're not resting on their laurels and sticking with their squad is what's scary. They're constantly trying to improve. They've identified a potentially weak area in the lack of depth when Fernandinho's not available and another weak area at RB. Cancelo is not only a massive upgrade on Danilo, but he will slot in as their RB full-time, he's one of the best RBs in Europe. Also, Rodri's not the sort of player that will be outwardly impressive, but the role he plays and the job he does is very impressive, and I think he'll play alongside Fernandinho not instead of most of the time. At full strength I see them lining up:

---------------------Ederson----------------------
-------Stones-----Fernandinho----Laporte-----
-Cancelo-----------Rodri------------Mendy-------
---------B Silva-------------KDB---------------------
-------------------Aguero-------------Sterling-------

Won't ever play in a strigent formation like that, but generally that set-up from the start. B Silva plays the role he did last year dropping into midfield where needed but also used on the right. Fernandinho drops into CB when needed otherwise forms a 2 man midfield with Rodri allowing KDB to roam forward and form a 4-man attack on the counter. Looks bloody scary to me.

Liverpool seem content to just continue with what they had last year, which isn't necessarily a bad thing as they did well last year, but when City are still looking to improve I'm surprised Liverpool aren't doing the same.
		
Click to expand...

They already Walker playing at RB who Pep clearly rates , and Cancelo is no better than Walker , ( one of the best RB in Europe is a bit touch over the top ) and including Mendy is a risk when the guy hardly plays. So it wouldnâ€™t surprise me if he is looking to put Cancelo at LB maybe. If they were swapping Danilo for Sandro then that makes a big difference adding someone in at LB.

Yes we seem to be buying for the future at the moment but I have a feeling Klopp just doesnâ€™t fancy any of the players on the market at the moment and he only seems to spend when there is someone he really wants - and we have some talented young players but going to rely on the front 3 again


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 5, 2019)

Twire said:



			Here you go... one of West Hams cast offs 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...e-transfer-former-West-Ham-keeper-Adrian.html

Click to expand...

Decent enough keeper in his first few seasons for us

Must be either unable to get a club or getting good money

He wanted to go back to Spain and also for first team as he has been displaced

We got rid and replaced with 2 keepers for half the wages per week I heard


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 5, 2019)

Rumours that Walker might be moved more central at times as a CB...


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes we seem to be buying for the future at the moment but I have a feeling Klopp just doesnâ€™t fancy any of the players on the market at the moment and he only seems to spend when there is someone he really wants - and we have some talented young players *but going to rely on the front 3 again*

Click to expand...

Does that not worry you at all? Liverpool looked a bit short on creativity at the back-end of last season when Firmino was out injured and no back-up has been bought. I thought Liverpool would target someone of a similar ilk to fill that role if Firmino picks up a knock but seems not. Lose Salah/Mane and Firmino and goals could be hard to come by. Seems a bit Spurs-like in their approach this summer, just sticking with what they've got and praying for no injuries.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 5, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Does that not worry you at all? Liverpool looked a bit short on creativity at the back-end of last season when Firmino was out injured and no back-up has been bought. I thought Liverpool would target someone of a similar ilk to fill that role if Firmino picks up a knock but seems not. Lose Salah/Mane and Firmino and goals could be hard to come by. Seems a bit Spurs-like in their approach this summer, just sticking with what they've got and praying for no injuries.
		
Click to expand...

This is their year. Didn't anyone tell you?

I guess you could argue that long term injuries to key players will affect any side. to be fair though although Liverpool didn't look as creative towards the end of the season they found a way to dig results out. I wonder if Klopp and Liverpool will still be active in the market and looking at players so it may be a touch premature to suggest they will be like Spurs and do no business in the window


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 5, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Rumours that Walker might be moved more central at times as a CB...
		
Click to expand...

I can't see that as a long-term option. He's made it clear he prefers not to play there, and I don't think he offers any more security than Stones or Otamendi.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Does that not worry you at all? Liverpool looked a bit short on creativity at the back-end of last season when Firmino was out injured and no back-up has been bought. I thought Liverpool would target someone of a similar ilk to fill that role if Firmino picks up a knock but seems not. Lose Salah/Mane and Firmino and goals could be hard to come by. Seems a bit Spurs-like in their approach this summer, just sticking with what they've got and praying for no injuries.
		
Click to expand...

At the moment we have Origi who stepped in last season and scored vital goals when Firmino and Mo were out for a few games -Shaqiri stepped in at certain times as well , seems Wilson is being given a chance and he really rates Brewster - and I guess he is looking for goals from Ox and Keita to come into it - Klopp seems to have judged it well so far


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 5, 2019)

I know this is a Wengerism but Oxlade-Chamberlain will be like a new signing.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I know this is a Wengerism but Oxlade-Chamberlain will be like a new signing. 

Click to expand...

You mean over rated and a flop


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 5, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			You mean over rated and a flop
		
Click to expand...

Bit strong! Much as I'd love to put him down, I think he's a good player and gives them that attacking midfielder to link the midfield to the forwards which was something they lacked last season when he was out (and so was Lallana mostly).


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Bit strong! Much as I'd love to put him down, I think he's a good player and gives them that attacking midfielder to link the midfield to the forwards which was something they lacked last season when he was out (and so was Lallana mostly).
		
Click to expand...

A little tongue in cheek!!! He needs to kick on again though and hopefully won't suffer anymore nasty injuries. I think he'll definitely add something to the side


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 5, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Didnt see all the game yesterday Dan, grandkids etc.  But I was impressed with Citys determination to dig in when Liverpool were dominant. Bravo and Walker who have been poor for City played to there full potential for once.

That aside. How empty was Wemberlee. I had an email a week before saying you can have a family of four tickets for Â£40. They knew the game was between City and Liverpool, why not play it at old Trafford in front of a full house. Less travel, full stadium. You could even put tickets up a tenner and fans would still be in pocket and the FA make more.
		
Click to expand...

Donâ€™t be silly ,that would be taking the fans into consideration. 
Liverpool v Chelsea look where thatâ€™s being played one game into the season.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 5, 2019)

Twire said:



			Here you go... one of West Hams cast offs 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...e-transfer-former-West-Ham-keeper-Adrian.html

Click to expand...

Much better keeper than Mignolet so I'll be happy with that.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 5, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			You mean over rated and a flop
		
Click to expand...

Couldn't be further from the truth, he's good with the ball, always looking for that forward ball, he'll give us another  good option in the midfield 3.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Couldn't be further from the truth, he's good with the ball, always looking for that forward ball, he'll give us another  good option in the midfield 3.
		
Click to expand...

See comment #951 - meant tongue in cheek and more a swipe at Wenger and his signings, often announced as the next best thing and then failed to produce. I agree with you that injury free he'll be an asset


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 5, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			My opinion is based purely on a financial aspect. As long as someone contributes financially (taxes), the role they do is imo irrelevant.

In regards to them being average, there's nothing to say an uncapped 20 yr old south american is average. For the big clubs obv they'll generally go for stars and permits won't be an issue, but if a smaller club, say Saints spots someone they think has potential, they have no chance to sign them.
		
Click to expand...

That's not how the visa system works though, I think you know that. The aim is to allow people to fill vacant gaps in the market or people who are exceptional. Part of the system is to protect home grown workers. In terms of paying taxes, if Southampton, for example, don't buy a Bolivian left back they will still buy a left back and they will still pay the same taxes etc.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 5, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That's not how the visa system works though, I think you know that. The aim is to allow people to fill vacant gaps in the market or people who are exceptional. Part of the system is to protect home grown workers. In terms of paying taxes, if Southampton, for example, don't buy a Bolivian left back they will still buy a left back and they will still pay the same taxes etc.
		
Click to expand...

I know it doesn't work like that, hence me saying i think its a silly rule.

We may well sign another LB, but he will likely be over priced (if english), and not necessarily as good. I also don't think entertainers, be that sport or anything else need to necessarily have the same criteria. I'm not sure footballers, home or abroad NEED to be protected. We aren't talking about people getting by on minimum wage.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 5, 2019)

The PFA may disagree with that ðŸ˜€.


----------



## Slime (Aug 5, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Pretty scary that City won the league last year and are adding Rodri and Cancelo to their squad. Can't see anyone getting past them this year. Liverpool haven't signed anyone, *United* and Arsenal *still look a shambles at the back*, Chelsea have lost their main man, and Spurs have strengthened but they're still lacking the depth to compete for a full season. Looks like another dominant City season ahead.
		
Click to expand...

I'd totally disagree with that.
I think Utd now have a very strong looking defensive line-up .......................... only time will tell which one of us is correct.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Aug 5, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Does that not worry you at all? Liverpool looked a bit short on creativity at the back-end of last season when Firmino was out injured and no back-up has been bought. I thought Liverpool would target someone of a similar ilk to fill that role if Firmino picks up a knock but seems not. Lose Salah/Mane and Firmino and goals could be hard to come by. Seems a bit Spurs-like in their approach this summer, just sticking with what they've got and praying for no injuries.
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps you're overlooking some of the youngsters he has under his control. Klopp isn't stupid, and probably see's the benefit of bringing through talent rather than paying over the odds if what he has he feels is good enough.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 6, 2019)

Looks like Koscelny ( however you spell his name) is off to Bordeaux. How the times have changed from Tony Adams to Koscelny.


----------



## Backache (Aug 6, 2019)

Slime said:



			I'd totally disagree with that.
I think Utd now have a very strong looking defensive line-up .......................... only time will tell which one of us is correct.
		
Click to expand...

I would saythat United have some very good defensive players. How they will play together with Solskjar in charge remains uncertain.


----------



## Wolf (Aug 6, 2019)

Seeing rumours of Rooney to Derby ðŸ¤”


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 6, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Seeing rumours of Rooney to Derby ðŸ¤”
		
Click to expand...

Makes sense family wise. He has had a massive house built in Cheshire, that is home for his wife and kids, kids are young and need stability for schools. He can commute for training to Derby.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 6, 2019)

Djibril Sidibe to Everton almost complete. On loan for this season with a Â£14m option to buy. Nice piece of business, needed a back-up to Seamus after sending Kenny on loan to Schalke and Sidibe is very good. Really impressed with Marcel Brands, making some very shrewd moves in the transfer market.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 6, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Djibril Sidibe to Everton almost complete. On loan for this season with a Â£14m option to buy. Nice piece of business, needed a back-up to Seamus after sending Kenny on loan to Schalke and Sidibe is very good. Really impressed with Marcel Brands, making some very shrewd moves in the transfer market.
		
Click to expand...

I read that and thought you said Djibril Cisse for a second, I nearly fell out my chair. Sidibe was good when Monaco won the league wasn't he? That's a pretty good deal. We need a bloody right back maybe we should have been looking at him! Only one we're linked with is Hysaj of Napoli, heard mixed reviews.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 6, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Djibril Sidibe to Everton almost complete. On loan for this season with a Â£14m option to buy. Nice piece of business, needed a back-up to Seamus after sending Kenny on loan to Schalke and Sidibe is very good. Really impressed with Marcel Brands, making some very shrewd moves in the transfer market.
		
Click to expand...

How come he is so cheap, comparatively? A world cup winner, not that old. Seems a great deal, planning for the end of Seamus. Marcel has a very good black book from the looks of things so far.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 6, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How come he is so cheap, comparatively? *A world cup winner*, not that old. Seems a great deal, planning for the end of Seamus. Marcel has a very good black book from the looks of things so far.
		
Click to expand...

I mean he only played once in the dead rubber group match, but sure, world cup winner.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 6, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I mean he only played once in the dead rubber group match, but sure, world cup winner. 

Click to expand...

He's won more world cups than Maguire and Wan Bissaka ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£.

He's played for France enough times, he can't be a mug. I don't know anything about him, other than a quick Google, as I don't follow the French league. Seems a great deal on the face of it. I'm looking for the catch, perhaps there isn't one and we have just been smart? It happened last year with Digne.


----------



## Junior (Aug 6, 2019)

Slime said:



			I'd totally disagree with that.
I think Utd now have a very strong looking defensive line-up .......................... only time will tell which one of us is correct.
		
Click to expand...

Agree.  Ole is only doing what he can do.   I like the character of the players he is signing.   Wan Bissaka, McGuire, James are young and don't have a pre-madonna aura about them. Greenwood could come of age too.   Wan Bissaka has looked great pre season and don't be surprised to see McTominay have a good season.  He looked great against Milan defensively and going forward too.   If he plays Rashford and Martial as out and out strikers (not left wing), we have a young and threatening team.  

I don't think we are good enough to win the league yet,  i like his strategy of investing (albeit lots of Â£) in the type of player.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 6, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How come he is so cheap, comparatively? A world cup winner, not that old. Seems a great deal, planning for the end of Seamus. Marcel has a very good black book from the looks of things so far.
		
Click to expand...

Not really sure. They came 17th in Ligue 1 last season, so don't imagine they've got too much bargaining power and are probably looking to build a new team. They sent Tielemans who's one of the most promising midfielders in Europe to Leicester on a loan with a Â£40m option to buy, which again is a bargain for the quality he brings.


----------



## Slime (Aug 6, 2019)

Rumours are now linking United with Christian Eriksen.
Noooooooooooooooooo, I want Bruno Fernandes!


----------



## fundy (Aug 6, 2019)

Rooney joining Derby in January


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 6, 2019)

Slime said:



*Rumours are now linking United with Christian Eriksen.*
Noooooooooooooooooo, I want Bruno Fernandes!
		
Click to expand...

I dunno where that's come from all of a sudden. He said he only wanted to leave us for Real initially and they weren't bothered so I figured he was staying. I don't know why he would move to United really. Obviously money but still.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 6, 2019)

West Ham complete their 5th summer signing in a 18 yo Portuguese centre back who was being tracked by Watford, lazio and inter Milan 

Rumours of 2 others in the pipeline . Defensive midfield and young striker

Add those 2 the 2 very good signings in fornels (who looks class) and Haller , combined with no losing diop or rice Iâ€™d say the window has been a success


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 6, 2019)

Tashyboy gets a sneaky feeling that one or two forum members are very happy how there clubs transfer strategies are going. ðŸ˜³


----------



## Slime (Aug 6, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Tashyboy gets a sneaky feeling that one or two forum members are very happy how there clubs transfer strategies are going. ðŸ˜³
		
Click to expand...

......................... and one or two are not!


----------



## fundy (Aug 6, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Tashyboy gets a sneaky feeling that one or two forum members are very happy how there clubs transfer strategies are going. ðŸ˜³
		
Click to expand...

yeah we asked for 2 or 3 new defenders, instead weve sold 2 centre halfs (incl our captain), still have the ones everyone wants sold (yes mustafi i mainly mean you), the only one weve signed weve loaned straight back out to his existing club, but hey weve bought some fancy wide attacking players (and I thought we'd changed managers haha)

obviously when we sign 3 defenders before the deadline ill retract (read delete) this post


----------



## ColchesterFC (Aug 6, 2019)

Rumours that Coutinho could be returning to the PL on a loan deal. So for fans of the clubs that are rumoured to be interested - Spurs, Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool - would you rather have Coutinho come in on loan for a season or two, keep/sign Eriksen, replace Eriksen with Coutinho (Spurs fans only), or not go for either and get someone else?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 6, 2019)

Itâ€™s been a quiet window , some very talented youngsters bought , I donâ€™t think the market is great at the moment and think the manager is happy to develop the squad he has - going to expect better season from Keita after starting brightly last season, Ox coming back is a bonus.

Think there have been some very strange signings and some mad money spread about - reckon Leicester getting Tielenmans is a great bit of business and them Wolves look strong to challenge Chelsea and Arsenal , Everton I think still missing a proven goalscorer. Villa seem to have gone mad spending.

I look at our rivals and havenâ€™t seen much strengthening despite a lot being spent by some. Can see Utd getting back into the Top 4

And with the Coutinho question- he wonâ€™t be welcomed back to the club by Klopp , he faked an injury , paid to get out of the club quicker and has flopped - we moved on from him - will be surprised if he comes back to the Prem especially for a Â£25mil loan fee


----------



## fundy (Aug 6, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Rumours that Coutinho could be returning to the PL on a loan deal. So for fans of the clubs that are rumoured to be interested - Spurs, Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool - would you rather have Coutinho come in on loan for a season or two, keep/sign Eriksen, replace Eriksen with Coutinho (Spurs fans only), or not go for either and get someone else?
		
Click to expand...

can he play centre half? that pretty much sums up my answer (would love him after weve bought a defense!)


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 6, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Itâ€™s been a quiet window , some very talented *youngsters bought* , I donâ€™t think the market is great at the moment and think the manager is happy to develop the squad he has - going to expect better season from Keita after starting brightly last season, Ox coming back is a bonus.

Think there have been some very strange signings and some mad money spread about - reckon Leicester getting Tielenmans is a great bit of business and them Wolves look strong to challenge Chelsea and Arsenal , Everton I think still missing a proven goalscorer. Villa seem to have gone mad spending.

I look at our rivals and havenâ€™t seen much strengthening despite a lot being spent by some. Can see Utd getting back into the Top 4

And with the Coutinho question- he wonâ€™t be welcomed back to the club by Klopp , he faked an injury , paid to get out of the club quicker and has flopped - we moved on from him - will be surprised if he comes back to the Prem especially for a Â£25mil loan fee
		
Click to expand...

Who are they? 

I think your squad will have you 2nd comfortably. Still think you lack creativity in the middle. Lallana and Shaqiri both other a little, but won't start games imo. 

For me, any club sitting still goes backwards. Happened to spurs last year and think it'll be same for you guys. 

See City getting close too 100 again. You low 90s and the rest low 80s again.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 6, 2019)

Slime said:



			......................... and one or two are not! 

Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 6, 2019)

fundy said:



			Rooney joining Derby in January 

Click to expand...

Derby fan who is a pal of mine has been telling me where Rooney is most likely to find the red light districts ðŸ˜³


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 6, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Who are they?

I think your squad will have you 2nd comfortably. Still think you lack creativity in the middle. Lallana and Shaqiri both other a little, but won't start games imo.

For me, any club sitting still goes backwards. Happened to spurs last year and think it'll be same for you guys.

See City getting close too 100 again. You low 90s and the rest low 80s again.
		
Click to expand...

Young Dutch CB and English winger - Keita and Ox also add in creativity and as with Lallana will depend on fitness. And just because big money isnâ€™t spent doesnâ€™t mean a team sits still - we already have a me of the youngest squads and they are gaining more experience and can see them moving forward again this season - there isnâ€™t much on the market right now that makes it worth spending the money on, a back up for the front three would be nice. Reckon we are going to run City very close again


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 6, 2019)

Spurs buying Dybala and getting Coutinho on loan. Wow.


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 6, 2019)

That would free up Eriksen to United, too.


----------



## fundy (Aug 6, 2019)

Spurs fans winning August again it seems


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 6, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Spurs buying Dybala and getting Coutinho on loan. Wow.
		
Click to expand...

I just donâ€™t understand football transfers now.
â€œ why would a player of Coutinhos calibrate go out on loanâ€?
Apart from the wages .


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 6, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Spurs buying Dybala and getting Coutinho on loan. Wow.
		
Click to expand...

Will be interesting if either come off - certainly Dybala but they have been linked with a few this week including Fernandes and Celso so guess will have to see if it actually happens but would certainly mean Eriksen on his way out and maybe they had decided they canâ€™t trust Aliâ€™s injuries


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 6, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I just donâ€™t understand football transfers now.
â€œ why would a player of Coutinhos calibrate go out on loanâ€?
Apart from the wages .
		
Click to expand...

Barca need him off the wage bill to get Neymar in.  Heâ€™s eager to play in a league he knows heâ€™s decent in for a good team. Win win.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 6, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Barca need him off the wage bill to get Neymar in.  Heâ€™s eager to play in a league he knows heâ€™s decent in for a good team. Win win.
		
Click to expand...

Yes a good deal but why not just sell him?


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 6, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Young Dutch CB and English winger - Keita and Ox also add in creativity and as with Lallana will depend on fitness. And just because big money isnâ€™t spent doesnâ€™t mean a team sits still - we already have a me of the youngest squads and they are gaining more experience and can see them moving forward again this season - there isnâ€™t much on the market right now that makes it worth spending the money on, a back up for the front three would be nice. Reckon we are going to run City very close again
		
Click to expand...

Keira from what I saw last year or the year before arenâ€™t creative. Neither is ox. Iâ€™m not saying either of them are bad players. I rate em both. Both imo they arenâ€™t going to play the halls to unlock teams when itâ€™s a close game.

As to the very talented youngsters. Imo thatâ€™s a bit of creative license. One barely played for Fulham. He may well become good. But if either get 10 pl games Iâ€™ll be surprised. And imo if you want to progress, you need players who enhance the team now.

FWIW, Iâ€™d love to see you run em close. Last season was a cracking title run in.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 6, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes a good deal but why not just sell him?
		
Click to expand...

Whoâ€™s gonna pay Â£100m for him?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 6, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Whoâ€™s gonna pay Â£100m for him?
		
Click to expand...

Yes thatâ€™s just dawned on me stupid price Barca paid.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 6, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes a good deal but why not just sell him?
		
Click to expand...

Anyone taking him will have to pay a fee still for the loan period so the loaning club get some money in still. In the case of couthino the chances are there will be a compulsory buy at the end of the season clause. In effect it helps the buying club spread the payments, helps with FFP etc, the selling club ultimately get the money but it is just spread out more to help the buying club. That is how I read it anyway. 

If he was really in demand then he would be sold to the highest bidder, no loan.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 6, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Keira from what I saw last year or the year before arenâ€™t creative. Neither is ox. Iâ€™m not saying either of them are bad players. I rate em both. Both imo they arenâ€™t going to play the halls to unlock teams when itâ€™s a close game.

As to the very talented youngsters. Imo thatâ€™s a bit of creative license. One barely played for Fulham. He may well become good. But if either get 10 pl games Iâ€™ll be surprised. And imo if you want to progress, you need players who enhance the team now.

FWIW, Iâ€™d love to see you run em close. Last season was a cracking title run in.
		
Click to expand...

Klopp adjusted his tactics to make the midfield more functional, more workmanlike , energy and drive when Coutinho left - he has his midfield three spots and a Coutinho type doesnâ€™t sit there now and he doesnâ€™t spend unless he really sees the player enhancing the first 11 and there arenâ€™t that many on the market that can ( beyond the obvious superstars ). We can just as easily progress with the squad we have


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 6, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Klopp adjusted his tactics to make the midfield more functional, more workmanlike , energy and drive when Coutinho left - he has his midfield three spots and a Coutinho type doesnâ€™t sit there now and he doesnâ€™t spend unless he really sees the player enhancing the first 11 and there arenâ€™t that many on the market that can ( beyond the obvious superstars ). We can just as easily progress with the squad we have
		
Click to expand...

I would like to see a proper goal scorer in the squad.
I know they are like rocking horse shit but the chances we missed Sunday were crying out for a natural finisher.
The squad is very good but can always be improved.
I wonder if Klopp has his eye on someone, I hope so.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 6, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Klopp adjusted his tactics to make the midfield more functional, more workmanlike , energy and drive when Coutinho left - he has his midfield three spots and a Coutinho type doesnâ€™t sit there now and he doesnâ€™t spend unless he really sees the player enhancing the first 11 and there arenâ€™t that many on the market that can ( beyond the obvious superstars ). We can just as easily progress with the squad we have
		
Click to expand...

Which one is it, are Keith and Ox creative or are they workmanlike? ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Honestly, I fully accept that your midfield is meant to be more about function. When youâ€™ve got the front 3 you have itâ€™s best to let them get on with it. Especially with your two fall backs. But imo there comes a time when competition is needed. Imo the difference in level between your main 3 and the bench is vast. Salah last season should have been subbed a few times towards the end but you simply had nobody to bring on.  A major injury creates a headache imo. 

Origi despite his heroics last season isnâ€™t the answer. I respect him for not just wasting cash. But if players like Dybala go for Â£65m, thatâ€™s the sort of player Iâ€™d have thought a title challenger may go after.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 6, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I would like to see a proper goal scorer in the squad.
I know they are like rocking horse shit but the chances we missed Sunday were crying out for a natural finisher.
The squad is very good but can always be improved.
I wonder if Klopp has his eye on someone, I hope so.
		
Click to expand...

We had two of three golden boot winners in the team last season - and who does he replace ?



Papas1982 said:



			Which one is it, are Keith and Ox creative or are they workmanlike? ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Honestly, I fully accept that your midfield is meant to be more about function. When youâ€™ve got the front 3 you have itâ€™s best to let them get on with it. Especially with your two fall backs. But imo there comes a time when competition is needed. Imo the difference in level between your main 3 and the bench is vast. Salah last season should have been subbed a few times towards the end but you simply had nobody to bring on.  A major injury creates a headache imo.

Origi despite his heroics last season isnâ€™t the answer. I respect him for not just wasting cash. But if players like Dybala go for Â£65m, thatâ€™s the sort of player Iâ€™d have thought a title challenger may go after.
		
Click to expand...

Creativity comes in many forms -Gerrard was creative but coming from running with the ball which is something you will see from both Ox and Keita

And we canâ€™t have Â£65mil players sat on the bench waiting for serious injury or waiting to replace Salah which is why Klopp wonâ€™t spend that sort of money unless itâ€™s replacing someone who is leaving - Origi , Shaqiri etc will do a job coming off the bench just like they did crucially a number of times last season. Klopp is very particular about the players he brings in and the sort of squad he wants - very small , person , tight knit , no big egos and must have the right attitude - would love to have someone like Dembele as back up but donâ€™t ever expect it to happen


----------



## Slime (Aug 6, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Rumours that Coutinho could be returning to the PL on a loan deal. So for fans of the clubs that are rumoured to be interested - Spurs, Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool - *would you rather have Coutinho come in on loan for a season or two, keep/sign Eriksen*, replace Eriksen with Coutinho (Spurs fans only), *or not go for either and get someone else?*

Click to expand...

1st choice ........................ Bruno Fernandes
2nd choice ....................... Christian Eriksen
3rd choice ........................ not Coutinho!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 6, 2019)

Slime said:



			1st choice ........................ Bruno Fernandes
2nd choice ....................... Christian Eriksen
3rd choice ........................ not Coutinho!
		
Click to expand...

Do you still see Fernandes as a defensive mid ?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 6, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Klopp adjusted his tactics to make the midfield more functional, more workmanlike , energy and drive when Coutinho left - he has his midfield three spots and a Coutinho type doesnâ€™t sit there now and he doesnâ€™t spend unless he really sees the player enhancing the first 11 and there arenâ€™t that many on the market that can ( beyond the obvious superstars ). We can just as easily progress with the squad we have
		
Click to expand...

But we could also play a 4-2-3-1 with a Coutinho in it.

2 sitters, and with someone who can supply the bullets and also weigh in with a few, especially at home. 4-3-3 away at some of the big guns, but Ive felt for a bit that for 75% of our games a 4-2-3-1 may suit us better.

We also need more cover for our front 3. Zaha would be my pick.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 6, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			We had two of three golden boot winners in the team last season - and who does he replace ? 



Creativity comes in many forms -Gerrard was creative but coming from running with the ball which is something you will see from both Ox and Keita 

And we canâ€™t have Â£65mil players sat on the bench waiting for serious injury or waiting to replace Salah which is why Klopp wonâ€™t spend that sort of money unless itâ€™s replacing someone who is leaving - Origi , Shaqiri etc will do a job coming off the bench just like they did crucially a number of times last season. Klopp is very particular about the players he brings in and the sort of squad he wants - very small , person , tight knit , no big egos and must have the right attitude
		
Click to expand...

We had a bit of rotation in the team except up front ,they looked knackered late on and just think we need a poacher.
Watched Salah have a few poor games but he stayed on the pitch because heâ€™s the main threat.
We just need another option, but as I said these players are rare.
I honestly belive if we had a poacher we would have won the games we drew last year and prob have won the league.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 6, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			But we could also play a 4-2-3-1 with a Coutinho in it.

2 sitters, and with someone who can supply the bullets and also weigh in with a few, especially at home. 4-3-3 away at some of the big guns, but Ive felt for a bit that for 75% of our games a 4-2-3-1 may suit us better.

We also need more cover for our front 3. Zaha would be my pick.
		
Click to expand...

He did play 4-2-3-1 a few times with Bobby/Shaqiri dropping into the 3 and Mo being the one - worked against some but not others , but if looking that way would prefer a Dybala or Eriksen but not the snake 

Zaha would be great as cover but we arenâ€™t going to spend that much on cover


----------



## Slime (Aug 6, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			That would free up Eriksen to United, too.
		
Click to expand...

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!


----------



## Slime (Aug 6, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you still see Fernandes as a defensive mid ?
		
Click to expand...

No, although he CAN play in that role, he's just better suited as an attacking midfielder.
I'd still sooner see him play as a defensive midfielder than Matic.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 6, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He did play 4-2-3-1 a few times with Bobby/Shaqiri dropping into the 3 and Mo being the one - worked against some but not others , but if looking that way would prefer a Dybala or Eriksen but not the snake 

Zaha would be great as cover but we arenâ€™t going to spend that much on cover
		
Click to expand...

Would he be cover though if we rotated the four upfront it would give them a break ,especially in a very long season.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 6, 2019)

Slime said:



			No, although he CAN play in that role, he's just better suited as an attacking midfielder.
I'd still sooner see him play as a defensive midfielder than Matic.
		
Click to expand...

He isnâ€™t in any shape or form a defensive mid but I hope you buy him and play him there alongside Pogba - it would be great to see


clubchamp98 said:



			Would he be cover though if we rotated the four upfront it would give them a break ,especially in a very long season.
		
Click to expand...

Klopp doesnâ€™t seem to want to break up the three - they are going to play 99% of the games , it seems that how he wants them to play so he isnâ€™t going to spend Â£75mil on Zaha


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 6, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He isnâ€™t in any shape or form a defensive mid but I hope you buy him and play him there alongside Pogba - it would be great to see


Klopp doesnâ€™t seem to want to break up the three - they are going to play 99% of the games , it seems that how he wants them to play so he isnâ€™t going to spend Â£75mil on Zaha
		
Click to expand...

Yes I think you will be right .
We are told all the time that these players canâ€™t play all the games all the time.
I hope he uses some of the young lads a bit more there maybe a Fowler/ Owen in there somewhere.
But I think Zaha would fit ,just donâ€™t like the diving.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 6, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He did play 4-2-3-1 a few times with Bobby/Shaqiri dropping into the 3 and Mo being the one - worked against some but not others , but if looking that way would prefer a Dybala or Eriksen but not the snake

Zaha would be great as cover but we arenâ€™t going to spend that much on cover
		
Click to expand...

When we moved Bobby round his game suffered.

I dont see why we cant by 1 very good player for Â£50 mill plus, with the money we've got in for Ings, Solanke and with Moreno and Sturridge off the wage bill.

You cant just hope that the front 3 are always available and wont pick up injuries. If we got Zaha also, rotate the 4 of them over 6 odd games.


----------



## Swingalot (Aug 6, 2019)

Zaha is not going anywhere.

He said while praying.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			When we moved Bobby round his game suffered.

I dont see why we cant by 1 very good player for Â£50 mill plus, with the money we've got in for Ings, Solanke and with Moreno and Sturridge off the wage bill.

You cant just hope that the front 3 are always available and wont pick up injuries. If we got Zaha also, rotate the 4 of them over 6 odd games.
		
Click to expand...

I donâ€™t see it being a money issue more Klopp is happy with the settled squad and the players he has - he doesnâ€™t seem a massive rotater on certain areas , same when he was at Dortmund- likes to keep the midfield fresh but keep the forward line consistent , and itâ€™s going to be very hard for someone to come into that forward line.  I think Zaha would be great to be in the squad and come in every now and then but I donâ€™t think he would move to us because of the front three we have already


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 7, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I donâ€™t see it being a money issue more Klopp is happy with the settled squad and the players he has - he doesnâ€™t seem a massive rotater on certain areas , same when he was at Dortmund- likes to keep the midfield fresh but keep the forward line consistent , and itâ€™s going to be very hard for someone to come into that forward line.  I think Zaha would be great to be in the squad and come in every now and then but I donâ€™t think he would move to us because of the front three we have already
		
Click to expand...

Keeping a settled front-line makes sense, but issue comes if you get a couple of injuries and there's no-one in the squad to back them up. Origi and Shaqiri are decent and did okay last year, but they're not at the same level as Salah, Mane or Firmino, and after them who have you got? Liverpool won the CL, the money is there to bolster the squad, I just don't understand why they haven't bought anyone. You look at a team like City last season who already had an incredibly strong attack but decided to spend a fortune on Riyad Mahrez to bolster the squad and improve the squad depth, and it worked, he might not have been a starter, but he bagged 12 goals and 12 assists in all competitions for them and was a perfect back-up/sub when they needed to rotate. I don't see why Liverpool aren't making a similar move this summer, especially when players like Pepe, Fekir, Dybala, Cutrone, Kean, Zaha and Maxi Gomez have been available this summer. I guess we'll see how it plays out this season.


----------



## Slime (Aug 7, 2019)

Can someone please sack Ed Woodward .............................................. NOW!


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 7, 2019)

This is like the old Spurs windows, haha. Linked to every player under the sun, then come deadline - Llorente re-signs on a one year deal. 

Was a pleasant surprised when the Dybala agreed fee was announced, but I'll be very surprised if we offer enough wages to tempt him. I feel like this Dybala and Coutinho stuff is just fake news to try and get Lo Celso Â£5m cheaper. That would be very Levy.

A right back would be nice still as well.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Keeping a settled front-line makes sense, but issue comes if you get a couple of injuries and there's no-one in the squad to back them up. Origi and Shaqiri are decent and did okay last year, but they're not at the same level as Salah, Mane or Firmino, and after them who have you got? Liverpool won the CL, the money is there to bolster the squad, I just don't understand why they haven't bought anyone. You look at a team like City last season who already had an incredibly strong attack but decided to spend a fortune on Riyad Mahrez to bolster the squad and improve the squad depth, and it worked, he might not have been a starter, but he bagged 12 goals and 12 assists in all competitions for them and was a perfect back-up/sub when they needed to rotate. I don't see why Liverpool aren't making a similar move this summer, especially when players like Pepe, Fekir, Dybala, Cutrone, Kean, Zaha and Maxi Gomez have been available this summer. I guess we'll see how it plays out this season.
		
Click to expand...

City can afford to spend Â£50mil and then the massive wages to have someone sit on the bench â€œin case of injuryâ€ 

Itâ€™s not right for other teams to â€œcompareâ€ against City when they are in a position that others canâ€™t achieve - and even then they are starting to have to deal with players being unhappy like Sane , Mahrez and Jesus.

Yes we have money there but Klopp only spends when he really wants a player - the players listed im going to suggest Klopp doesnâ€™t seem that as a player that fits into the team and even more so when at the money some of them are going for plus the wages 

It would be great to be in a position to have Â£70mil players with their Â£300k wages sat on the bench but we as a club arenâ€™t going to be in a position to do that. And really being honest Zaha is prob the only one out of your list to take into the squad - Dybala is very talented but last season struggled - not sure about the rest and Fekir was never going to come after his medical issues. 

As I said I think the window this summer hasnâ€™t really been flushed with high talented that would make the club dip into the pockets and Klopp doesnâ€™t spend for the sake of it


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 7, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			City can afford to spend Â£50mil and then the massive wages to have someone sit on the bench â€œin case of injuryâ€

Itâ€™s not right for other teams to â€œcompareâ€ against City when they are in a position that others canâ€™t achieve - and even then they are starting to have to deal with players being unhappy like Sane , Mahrez and Jesus.

Yes we have money there but Klopp only spends when he really wants a player - the players listed im going to suggest Klopp doesnâ€™t seem that as a player that fits into the team and even more so when at the money some of them are going for plus the wages

It would be great to be in a position to have Â£70mil players with their Â£300k wages sat on the bench but we as a club arenâ€™t going to be in a position to do that. And really being honest Zaha is prob the only one out of your list to take into the squad - Dybala is very talented but last season struggled - not sure about the rest and Fekir was never going to come after his medical issues.

As I said I think the window this summer hasnâ€™t really been flushed with high talented that would make the club dip into the pockets and Klopp doesnâ€™t spend for the sake of it
		
Click to expand...

This is absolutely hilarious. A year ago when Spurs hadn't bought anyone, you were the one saying we were mad not to strengthen, I was the one saying we can't pay huge amounts for players to come and sit on the bench and you were dismissing it. Absolute gold.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			This is absolutely hilarious. A year ago when Spurs hadn't bought anyone, you were the one saying we were mad not to strengthen, I was the one saying we can't pay huge amounts for players to come and sit on the bench and you were dismissing it. Absolute gold. 

Click to expand...

What did Spurs win with that squad ? How did they fair last season after not buying anyone ? Do Liverpool have their main player spending 1/3 of the season out of the team injured ? Did Liverpool also sell one of the main first team players ( Dembele ) - Liverpool have spent millions over the last couple of seasons to get the squad to a point that they won the CL and challenged City all season long - how about Spurs ? We do have cover - that cover came in a number of times when players were out and that cover scored crucial goals to help us win the CL. I have no doubt we will have the same sort of season - Challenging for the title and the CL right down to the wire.

If Spurs had spent on buying one more decent forward and then not had to rush Kane back so many times when he clearly wasnâ€™t fit - imagine how different it could have been in the CL


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 7, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What did Spurs win with that squad ? How did they fair last season after not buying anyone ? Do Liverpool have their main player spending 1/3 of the season out of the team injured ? Did Liverpool also sell one of the main first team players ( Dembele ) - Liverpool have spent millions over the last couple of seasons to get the squad to a point that they won the CL and challenged City all season long - how about Spurs ? We do have cover - that cover came in a number of times when players were out and that cover scored crucial goals to help us win the CL. I have no doubt we will have the same sort of season - Challenging for the title and the CL right down to the wire.

If Spurs had spent on buying one more decent forward and then not had to rush Kane back so many times when he clearly wasnâ€™t fit - imagine how different it could have been in the CL
		
Click to expand...

We didn't have to rush Kane back, we had Lucas Moura banging hat tricks. Starting Kane in the final was simply a poor decision.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 7, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Keeping a settled front-line makes sense, but issue comes if you get a couple of injuries and there's no-one in the squad to back them up. Origi and Shaqiri are decent and did okay last year, but they're not at the same level as Salah, Mane or Firmino, and after them who have you got? Liverpool won the CL, the money is there to bolster the squad, I just don't understand why they haven't bought anyone. You look at a team like City last season who already had an incredibly strong attack but decided to spend a fortune on Riyad Mahrez to bolster the squad and improve the squad depth, and it worked, he might not have been a starter, but he bagged 12 goals and 12 assists in all competitions for them and was a perfect back-up/sub when they needed to rotate. I don't see why Liverpool aren't making a similar move this summer, especially when players like Pepe, Fekir, Dybala, Cutrone, Kean, Zaha and Maxi Gomez have been available this summer. I guess we'll see how it plays out this season.
		
Click to expand...

Bang on.

If one gets injured, we then look a good deal weaker. Just because Origi scored some important goals last year doesnt mean he's adequate back up, although I hope he is.

I'm pinning my hopes either on a late deal for someone, or hoping that Jurgen has something up his sleeve for January.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 7, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Keeping a settled front-line makes sense, but issue comes if you get a couple of injuries and there's no-one in the squad to back them up. Origi and Shaqiri are decent and did okay last year, but they're not at the same level as Salah, Mane or Firmino, and after them who have you got? Liverpool won the CL, the money is there to bolster the squad, I just don't understand why they haven't bought anyone. You look at a team like City last season who already had an incredibly strong attack but decided to spend a fortune on Riyad Mahrez to bolster the squad and improve the squad depth, and it worked, he might not have been a starter, but he bagged 12 goals and 12 assists in all competitions for them and was a perfect back-up/sub when they needed to rotate. I don't see why Liverpool aren't making a similar move this summer, especially when players like Pepe, Fekir, Dybala, Cutrone, Kean, Zaha and Maxi Gomez have been available this summer. I guess we'll see how it plays out this season.
		
Click to expand...

This is quite a good write up, and totally agree with the Liverpool subs not being to the front threes standards. But in the same sense Origi has scored some massively important goals for the Pool. He just needs to do it more often. Thing is re Mahrez. He had a bit of an iffy first year, but so did D Silva and B Silva. Would expect a good bit more from him this year now he knows the system. Especially if Leroy goes to Bayern. I think one advantage City have over the Pool is there ability to get goals from all over the park with players playing in more than one position. I mentioned about some clubs having a happy transfer window. Don't think it is done yet.
Re countino, what's left on his contract at Barca for him to go out on loan.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 7, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Bang on.

If one gets injured, we then look a good deal weaker. Just because Origi scored some important goals last year doesnt mean he's adequate back up, although I hope he is.

I'm pinning my hopes either on a late deal for someone, or hoping that Jurgen has something up his sleeve for January.
		
Click to expand...

Flippin eck re Origi, ave just wrote thatðŸ˜‚


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Bang on.

If one gets injured, we then look a good deal weaker. Just because Origi scored some important goals last year doesnt mean he's adequate back up, although I hope he is.

I'm pinning my hopes either on a late deal for someone, or hoping that Jurgen has something up his sleeve for January.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s just not Klopp way - he loves the small tight knit settled squad , just have a look at the two squads he had when at Dortmund when they won the league and challenged in the CL - it was the same as we have - settled forward and back line , rotate in the midfield , only 15 players made double figure appearances in 10/11 , then 19 in 11/12 with the midfield again rotating lots and the forward line having the same week in week out. 

There was a great article about it all when he first arrived and how Klopp likes to work - he only spends money if he has too , he will always look to improve from within the squad and use the youth - he is tight as a ducks arse unless there is someone he really wants. I have no doubt that he didnâ€™t look at players like Pepe or Fernandes or Zaha because he will believe he has the support needed in the squad from the likes of Origi , Shaqiri and Brewster , he has the midfield packed who he will rotate with but those front three are going to play the bulk just like last year - he seems to have judged it pretty well especially his player recruitments


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 7, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Itâ€™s just not Klopp way - he loves the small tight knit settled squad , just have a look at the two squads he had when at Dortmund when they won the league and challenged in the CL - it was the same as we have - settled forward and back line , rotate in the midfield , only 15 players made double figure appearances in 10/11 , then 19 in 11/12 with the midfield again rotating lots and the forward line having the same week in week out.

There was a great article about it all when he first arrived and how Klopp likes to work - he only spends money if he has too , he will always look to improve from within the squad and use the youth - he is tight as a ducks arse unless there is someone he really wants. I have no doubt that he didnâ€™t look at players like Pepe or Fernandes or Zaha because he will believe he has the support needed in the squad from the likes of Origi , Shaqiri and Brewster , he has the midfield packed who he will rotate with but those front three are going to play the bulk just like last year - he seems to have judged it pretty well especially his player recruitments
		
Click to expand...

Dortmund typically operate on a small budget though, which is probably part of the reason he stuck with a smallish squad - they only spent Â£5m the season they won the league, Â£10m the season after. That's not the case here, Liverpool just won the CL bringing in the region of Â£80m in prize money alone, came 2nd in the PL, have cleared a series of players from the wage bill, the money is there to spend. I don't get why he wouldn't want to bring someone in, just like I didn't understand Spurs' last summer.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 7, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Itâ€™s just not Klopp way - he loves the small tight knit settled squad , just have a look at the two squads he had when at Dortmund when they won the league and challenged in the CL - it was the same as we have - settled forward and back line , rotate in the midfield , *only 15 players made double figure appearances in 10/11* , then 19 in 11/12 with the midfield again rotating lots and the forward line having the same week in week out.

There was a great article about it all when he first arrived and how Klopp likes to work - he only spends money if he has too , he will always look to improve from within the squad and use the youth - he is tight as a ducks arse unless there is someone he really wants. I have no doubt that he didnâ€™t look at players like Pepe or Fernandes or Zaha because he will believe he has the support needed in the squad from the likes of Origi , Shaqiri and Brewster , he has the midfield packed who he will rotate with but those front three are going to play the bulk just like last year - he seems to have judged it pretty well especially his player recruitments
		
Click to expand...

Just did a google. That year, the most appearances in total for them was Lewandowski, Hummels and Pisczek. All made 42 appearances in all comps.

Last year hnederson (44), milner(45), wijnaldum(47), firminho(48), robertson(48), mane(50), VVD(50), allison(51), salah (52). Thats with no winter break and in arguably a more intense league.

In regards to what Orikuro said and your counter. Basically your counter to his point was that you won the CL. Does that mean, if this year brings o trophies you'll concede it was a mistake?


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 7, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Dortmund typically operate on a small budget though, which is probably part of the reason he stuck with a smallish squad - they only spent Â£5m the season they won the league, Â£10m the season after. That's not the case here, Liverpool just won the CL bringing in the region of Â£80m in prize money alone, came 2nd in the PL, have cleared a series of players from the wage bill, the money is there to spend. I don't get why he wouldn't want to bring someone in, just like I didn't understand Spurs' last summer.
		
Click to expand...

Plus i read a piece the other day. Pep has won more trophies in two seasons at City than Klopp has in 18 years. However you look at it managers will be judged on what they win. Not saying Klopp has done poorly at all. But every City fan is elated he is not strengthening his squad.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Just did a google. That year, the most appearances in total for them was Lewandowski, Hummels and Pisczek. All made 42 appearances in all comps.

Last year hnederson (44), milner(45), wijnaldum(47), firminho(48), robertson(48), mane(50), VVD(50), allison(51), salah (52). Thats with no winter break and in arguably a more intense league.

In regards to what Orikuro said and your counter. Basically your counter to his point was that you won the CL. Does that mean, if this year brings o trophies you'll concede it was a mistake?
		
Click to expand...

The amount of games being played wasnâ€™t the point it was the size of the squad that Klopp likes to work with and having his top players play week in week out beyond the domestic cups. Klopp has done the same at at Liverpool has his core that it wonâ€™t rotate

And if we go backwards from last season and itâ€™s because of not bringing in players to support then yes he will be criticised because itâ€™s his choice at the end of the day - but he seems to know what he is doing currently


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Plus i read a piece the other day. Pep has won more trophies in two seasons at City than Klopp has in 18 years. However you look at it managers will be judged on what they win. Not saying Klopp has done poorly at all. But every City fan is elated he is not strengthening his squad.
		
Click to expand...

How does the level of trophies have relevance to what Dan says in regards player recruitment at Dortmund and Liverpool ? Pep will have more trophies - he was at Barce , Munich and City - three teams that will win trophies due to the resources available. They have both had different manager paths in their career and if you swapped them round I wonder if Pep would have won the trophies that Klopp has with the teams and resources available


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 7, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



*The amount of games being played wasnâ€™t the point it was the size of the squad that Klopp* likes to work with and having his top players play week in week out beyond the domestic cups. Klopp has done the same at at Liverpool has his core that it wonâ€™t rotate

And if we go backwards from last season and itâ€™s because of not bringing in players to support then yes he will be criticised because itâ€™s his choice at the end of the day - but he seems to know what he is doing currently
		
Click to expand...

But surely managers should evolve. It's all well and good wanting a small squad, but players playing 50 games plus is different to playing 40...

A game a week is easy enough, at at the end of the season when it's on the line, i'm sure adrenaline helps. Around xmas, new year when it's constantly 2 games a week (unlike germany) i reckon it will tell it's toll again.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			But surely managers should evolve. It's all well and good wanting a small squad, but players playing 50 games plus is different to playing 40...

A game a week is easy enough, at at the end of the season when it's on the line, i'm sure adrenaline helps. Around xmas, new year when it's constantly 2 games a week (unlike germany) i reckon it will tell it's toll again.
		
Click to expand...

I reckon he adjusts and changes as each season goes by - which ever method he uses in each season is clearly working for him and itâ€™s hard to disagree with him when you see how far the team have come under him.

We havenâ€™t stood still in any season he has been at the club , he gets paid the big bucks to manage his squad if putting his trust in his squad proves to be the wrong move for him then he will suffer the fallout from that. He took a team from 8th struggling in the league to winning the CL and challenging for the title.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 7, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			But surely managers should evolve. It's all well and good wanting a small squad, but players playing 50 games plus is different to playing 40...

A game a week is easy enough, at at the end of the season when it's on the line, i'm sure adrenaline helps. Around xmas, new year when it's constantly 2 games a week (unlike germany) i reckon it will tell it's toll again.
		
Click to expand...

They'll be playing more games this season as well, due to the Club World Champs, so thought the more depth the better. Obviously not.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 7, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I reckon he adjusts and changes as each season goes by - which ever method he uses in each season is clearly working for him and itâ€™s hard to disagree with him when you see how far the team have come under him.

We havenâ€™t stood still in any season he has been at the club , he gets paid the big bucks to manage his squad if putting his trust in his squad proves to be the wrong move for him then he will suffer the fallout from that. He took a team from 8th struggling in the league to winning the CL and challenging for the title.
		
Click to expand...

He did that by spending vast sums of money (very well). As well as improving a few players you had already. 

This is the first season where you've not added to the squad (stood still), something that other teams are criticised for. I think the faith he is both admirable and justified in that the front line are bloody brilliant, but imo it's also relying on luck for injuries. If one of your main 3 is out for 3 months. Shaqiri, lallana or Origi will need to play better football than they ever have done before. Obviously not all squads can have a city size squad. But Spurs aside, all the other top 6 have imo subs that aren't as inferior in relation to the first team.

Anyways, we've done this to death. Lets see what happens.


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 7, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



* Cutrone*

Click to expand...

Do you think he's good enough for Liverpool?


----------



## fundy (Aug 7, 2019)

Everton rumoured to have bid Â£30m for Iwobi, Arsenal turned it down and demanded Â£40m+. Please come back with a Â£40m bid


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 7, 2019)

fundy said:



			Everton rumoured to have bid Â£30m for Iwobi, Arsenal turned it down and demanded Â£40m+. Please come back with a Â£40m bid
		
Click to expand...

There must be a decimal point missing there.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 7, 2019)

fundy said:



			Everton rumoured to have bid Â£30m for Iwobi, Arsenal turned it down and demanded Â£40m+. Please come back with a Â£40m bid
		
Click to expand...

That has to be an Odemwingie style rumour, ie cobblers. Why would anyone offer that much for him? Has to be wishful thinking on your behalf (I'm hoping so anyway)


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 7, 2019)

I'd like to have seen at least a replacement for Sturridge and another ball playing midfielder. An improvement on Henderson/Milner/Gini is a must for me.

Klopp obviously believes in Origi and has seen enough in Brewster to think he can cut the mustard at PL level. The latter might have an impact like Sterling had in his first season, but he might not.

Not improving the squad  with 1 standout player could comeback to haunt us.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 7, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That has to be an Odemwingie style rumour, ie cobblers. Why would anyone offer that much for him? Has to be wishful thinking on your behalf (I'm hoping so anyway)
		
Click to expand...

That's one of those where both sides would want their heads checking. Everton for offering 30 mil and Arsenal for turning it down!


----------



## NWJocko (Aug 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I'd like to have seen at least a replacement for Sturridge and another ball playing midfielder. An improvement on Henderson/Milner/Gini is a must for me.

Klopp obviously believes in Origi and has seen enough in Brewster to think he can cut the mustard at PL level. The latter might have an impact like Sterling had in his first season, but he might not.
*
Not improving the squad  with 1 standout player could comeback to haunt us*.
		
Click to expand...

I'd tend to agree with this tbh.  May well get away with it but maybe not.

When you're in a position of strength is really the time to improve if you can, I'd have thought he'd be looking at upgrades on the likes of Lovren, Henderson, Shaqiri etc as the backup players available alongside maybe 1 who would/could go straight into the "first team" (if such a thing exists these days).


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2019)

So

Dybala not going to Spurs
Coutinho doesnâ€™t want to go to Spurs and favours a return to Liverpool
Zaha has handed in a transfer request

I didnâ€™t realise it was the deadline today - that means we have to suffer that spanner in the yellow

Wonder if Arry will make an appearance

This is pretty poor

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49261253

And Watford sign Welbeck


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 7, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So

Dybala not going to Spurs
Coutinho doesnâ€™t want to go to Spurs and favours a return to Liverpool
Zaha has handed in a transfer request

I didnâ€™t realise it was the deadline today - that means we have to suffer that spanner in the yellow

Wonder if Arry will make an appearance
		
Click to expand...

Deadline day is tomorrow.

I knew the Dybala and Coutinho stuff would just be nonsense to push Betis into selling Lo Celso. I think deals for him and/or Bruno Fernandes are still possible. 

Welbeck has signed for Watford.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 7, 2019)

5pm tomorrow is the deadline.

Nice to see Zaha handing in a transfer request. Be bloody excited if this deal works out.

Also seeing a lot of Shaqiri to Monaco rumours appearing on Twitter all of a sudden


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 7, 2019)

We are being linked with David Luiz. Please, please, no.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 7, 2019)

Not hearing anything about Coutinho wanting Liverpool. No team seemingly interested as yet https://www.skysports.com/transfer/...ho-rejects-tottenham-loan-move-from-barcelona 

Is that a good move by Watford for Welbeck.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 7, 2019)

NWJocko said:



			I'd tend to agree with this tbh.  May well get away with it but maybe not.

When you're in a position of strength is really the time to improve if you can, I'd have thought he'd be looking at upgrades on the likes of Lovren, Henderson, Shaqiri etc as the backup players available alongside maybe 1 who would/could go straight into the "first team" (if such a thing exists these days).
		
Click to expand...

I dont think we desperately need to upgrade those 3 players yet. 

My target areas would be, Striker, Ball playing Midfielder, Left back as cover for Robbo.

I'd have no issues with Lallana going, as I think with what we've got in the midfield we wouldnt miss him.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I dont think we desperately need to upgrade those 3 players yet.

My target areas would be, Striker, Ball playing Midfielder, Left back as cover for Robbo.

I'd have no issues with Lallana going, as I think with what we've got in the midfield we wouldnt miss him.
		
Click to expand...

I think if Klopp found someone he really liked then I reckon he would have sold Lallana and replaced him - cover at left back I guess is going to be Larouci who looked at step up from Moreno ðŸ˜†, wouldnâ€™t have minded seeming a seasoned pro in for a season until he is ready. That area is more a worry than others because of the way Robbo non stop


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 7, 2019)

Seems like the sky cameramen at the British Par 3's having to do overtime and film all these snippets from ex-players there as well as the golf


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 7, 2019)

I think Coutinho is a great talent, but I dont think i'd welcome him back after his long suffering back issues ðŸ˜‰


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I dont think we desperately need to upgrade those 3 players yet. 

My target areas would be, Striker, Ball playing Midfielder, Left back as cover for Robbo.

I'd have no issues with Lallana going, as I think with what we've got in the midfield we wouldnt miss him.
		
Click to expand...

I think our three strikers are the first names on the team sheet, there is no real competition for these places that needs to change imo.
Salha and Mane have been left on the pitch when having poor games to much.
The players who have come on and scored important goals have done well but would not get in the starting line up normally, we need someone who would.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I think Coutinho is a great talent, but I dont think i'd welcome him back after his long suffering back issues ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

Heâ€™s a good player though, and our physios are good should be able to sort his back out.


----------



## fundy (Aug 7, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			5pm tomorrow is the deadline.

Nice to see Zaha handing in a transfer request. Be bloody excited if this deal works out.

Also seeing a lot of Shaqiri to Monaco rumours appearing on Twitter all of a sudden
		
Click to expand...

dont get too excited, you get Iwobi and we then upgrade to Zaha


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 7, 2019)

Most surprising news of the day is David Luiz refusing to train in order to force a move to Arsenal! Apparently he loves Emery from their time at PSG. Can't see Chelsea selling a CB when they can't replace him though. Even if that CB is a 32 year old liability.


----------



## fundy (Aug 7, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Most surprising news of the day is David Luiz refusing to train in order to force a move to Arsenal! Apparently he loves Emery from their time at PSG. Can't see Chelsea selling a CB when they can't replace him though. Even if that CB is a 32 year old liability.
		
Click to expand...

hes just what our defense needs, NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 7, 2019)

fundy said:



			hes just what our defense needs, NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

A partnership of Luiz and Mustafi certainly would be fun to watch. Who will cock up first??


----------



## fundy (Aug 7, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			A partnership of Luiz and Mustafi certainly would be fun to watch. Who will cock up first??
		
Click to expand...

might be fun for you, ill be looking for a spot behind the sofa lol


----------



## fundy (Aug 7, 2019)

I see Jenkinson has gone to Forest, wish him all the best for the future. Kos less so after his classless display


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 7, 2019)

Cancelo to City confirmed. Such a good signing.


----------



## ger147 (Aug 7, 2019)

Arsenal have agreed a fee with Celtic, Tierney on his way to London for a medical.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 7, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Heâ€™s a good player though, and our physios are good should be able to sort his back out.
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## fundy (Aug 7, 2019)

glad to hear the Tierney deal but 8m for Luiz the answer to our centre half problems? really?


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 7, 2019)

If Luiz is the answer, what the heck was the question?


----------



## fundy (Aug 7, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			If Luiz is the answer, what the heck was the question?
		
Click to expand...

what could make our centre half pairing even more laughable?


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 7, 2019)

Iâ€™m gonna go against the grain here. 

I think for 8m he improves your defence.  I mean thatâ€™s not necessarily a tough challenge in itself, but for me his experience and character will help.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 7, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Cancelo to City confirmed. Such a good signing.
		
Click to expand...

Surely not, Pep only just said the other day that Jurgen's making it up that they spend loads of money every year.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 7, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Surely not, Pep only just said the other day that Jurgen's making it up that they spend loads of money every year. 

Click to expand...

The Cancelo transfer is old news, it has been in the pipeline for a few weeks. His crossing stats are impressive. He will put Walker on the bench. He is another player who will play in more than one position. Heard that Fernandinho will play a few games as centre half now Rodri has turned up


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 7, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			The Cancelo transfer is old news, it has been in the pipeline for a few weeks. His crossing stats are impressive. He will put Walker on the bench. He is another player who will play in more than one position. *Heard that Fernandinho will play a few games as centre half now Rodri has turned up*

Click to expand...

Doesnâ€™t say much for stones if heâ€™s benched for a midfielder.....

If he needs game time, weâ€™ll take him on loan on the south coast......


----------



## fundy (Aug 7, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Iâ€™m gonna go against the grain here. 

I think for 8m he improves your defence.  I mean thatâ€™s not necessarily a tough challenge in itself, but for me his experience and character will help.
		
Click to expand...

Hes not the disciplined, well positioned, calm, leadership type that we really need though is he


----------



## Fish (Aug 7, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Iâ€™m gonna go against the grain here.

I think for 8m he improves your defence.  I mean thatâ€™s not necessarily a tough challenge in itself, but for me his experience and character will help.
		
Click to expand...

I know a lot of people say you canâ€™t or shouldnâ€™t take a lot from pre season matches, but, whilst we scored some great goals from various areas of the squad, we leaked some very poor ones also and Luiz was key to quite a few of them. 

No doubt he already knows and realises heâ€™s not in Franks long term plans and will be surplus once injuries return with a possible full shake up of the back 4. 

We have the fire power and midfield but weâ€™ve constantly leaked goals and at times the buck stopped at Luiz.

At the end of the day, anyone who wants away get rid ASAP, we donâ€™t need any disruptive influences around the squad and training ground with so many young players now featuring, so Arsenal can have him. 

So many players that were shackled under Sarri and came under fire from fans are now playing with a new lease of life. Both Jorginho & Barkley have had superb pre seasons and shown us what they can truly do. 

And with players still recovering which will enhance the team/squad even more like Reece James, CHO & RLC who all didnâ€™t feature in pre season games, thereâ€™s an air of excitement at the Bridge. 

Let the doubters doubt ðŸ˜‰


----------



## fundy (Aug 7, 2019)

Fish said:



			I know a lot of people say you canâ€™t or shouldnâ€™t take a lot from pre season matches, but, whilst we scored some great goals from various areas of the squad, we leaked some very poor ones also and Luiz was key to quite a few of them. 

No doubt he already knows and realises heâ€™s not in Franks long term plans and will be surplus once injuries return with a possible full shake up of the back 4. 

We have the fire power and midfield but weâ€™ve constantly leaked goals and at times the buck stopped at Luiz.

At the end of the day, anyone who wants away get rid ASAP, we donâ€™t need any disruptive influences around the squad and training ground with so many young players now featuring, so Arsenal can have him. 

So many players that were shackled under Sarri and came under fire from fans are now playing with a new lease of life. Both Jorginho & Barkley have had superb pre seasons and shown us what they can truly do. 

And with players still recovering which will enhance the team/squad even more like Reece James, CHO & RLC who all didnâ€™t feature in pre season games, thereâ€™s an air of excitement at the Bridge. 

Let the doubters doubt ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

its Gallas all over again lol


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 7, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Doesnâ€™t say much for stones if heâ€™s benched for a midfielder.....

If he needs game time, weâ€™ll take him on loan on the south coast......
		
Click to expand...

With Kompany leaving, we have not brought in another centre half, although ave heard Pep likes one of the young uns, that aside. Fernandinho fits the bill of playing in more than one position. I think Stones and Laporte could be the two main centre halves with Otamendi and Fernandinho as back ups. Quite like the idea of Laporte, and stones with Rodri and Fernadinho sat in front. Cancelo and Zinchenko as wing backs.


----------



## Fish (Aug 7, 2019)

fundy said:



			its Gallas all over again lol
		
Click to expand...

And the song is already prepped ðŸ˜œðŸ‘


----------



## fundy (Aug 7, 2019)

Fish said:



			And the song is already prepped ðŸ˜œðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

i bet it is haha


----------



## Fish (Aug 7, 2019)

ðŸ˜œðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 7, 2019)

fundy said:



			Hes not the disciplined, well positioned, calm, leadership type that we really need though is he
		
Click to expand...

Honestly. I think heâ€™s better than any you have. Granted you still need another. But for 8m. If you donâ€™t sign another the. Thatâ€™s just poor by the board.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 7, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Surely not, Pep only just said the other day that Jurgen's making it up that they spend loads of money every year. 

Click to expand...

2018-19

IN: Mahrez, Sandler (Â£62m)

OUT: Diaz, Gunn, Maffeo, Denayer, Hart, Celina, Kayode (Â£50m)

2019-20

IN: Angelino, Rodri, Cancelo (Â£128)

OUT: Danilo, Delph, Luiz, Garcia, Mari (Â£63) 

City has a net spend of Â£77m across two seasons.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 7, 2019)

Wayne Rooney Hmmmmmmmm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49265227


----------



## fundy (Aug 8, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			2018-19

IN: Mahrez, Sandler (Â£62m)

OUT: Diaz, Gunn, Maffeo, Denayer, Hart, Celina, Kayode (Â£50m)

2019-20

IN: Angelino, Rodri, Cancelo (Â£128)

OUT: Danilo, Delph, Luiz, Garcia, Mari (Â£63) 

City has a net spend of Â£77m across two seasons.
		
Click to expand...

want to stretch that out a few years?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			2018-19

IN: Mahrez, Sandler (Â£62m)

OUT: Diaz, Gunn, Maffeo, Denayer, Hart, Celina, Kayode (Â£50m)

2019-20

IN: Angelino, Rodri, Cancelo (Â£128)

OUT: Danilo, Delph, Luiz, Garcia, Mari (Â£63)

City has a net spend of Â£77m across two seasons.
		
Click to expand...

What about the cool Â£1bn NET that has spent over the past 10 years since the oil money arrived


----------



## Pin-seeker (Aug 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What about the cool Â£1bn NET that has spent over the past 10 years since the oil money arrived
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ’¤ ðŸ’¤ ðŸ’¤


----------



## PieMan (Aug 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What about the cool Â£1bn NET that has spent over the past 10 years since the oil money arrived
		
Click to expand...

Most City fans cannot remember pre-Pep.........ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 8, 2019)

fundy said:



			want to stretch that out a few years?
		
Click to expand...

Easy but its in response to Klopps  statement. And why he is under pressure


----------



## Beezerk (Aug 8, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Easy but its in response to Klopps  statement. And why he is under pressure
		
Click to expand...

Pint of bitter for me please.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 8, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Wayne Rooney Hmmmmmmmm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49265227

Click to expand...

The article is right to question the sponsorship tie in, using Rooney's name and the effect of gambling as a wider issue but can you really blame Derby for making the most of the opportunity. Surely it's time for the powers that be (government, FA??) to ban betting advertising in the same way tobacco advertising is prohibited, not just on football shirts but on TV advertising as well


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Most City fans cannot remember pre-Pep.........ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Pep certainly doesnâ€™t like being told that he is in lucky position that he can spend whatever he wants - same when he was at Barce and Munich - great manager but will be interesting to see if he could have the same success if he took over a team not getting yearly success and had to balance the books more or he had to bring players through from the youth team instead of just spending. He isnâ€™t quite the chequebook manager but close

And their fans always seem to forgot how much money has actually spent by their managers without having to sell etc


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 8, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The article is right to question the sponsorship tie in, using Rooney's name and the effect of gambling as a wider issue but can you really blame Derby for making the most of the opportunity. Surely it's time for the powers that be (government, FA??) to ban betting advertising in the same way tobacco advertising is prohibited, not just on football shirts but on TV advertising as well
		
Click to expand...

I thought this when I read the article Homer, worryingly for me was Derby selling off there ground and renting? The article goes onto say how getting into the prem assures financial security. Am not to sure about that either. Am with you re cannot blame Derby, but once more betting firms involved with football. Remember Paddy Power the other week. When and where is the line drawn re betting companies and football.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Pep certainly doesnâ€™t like being told that he is in lucky position that he can spend whatever he wants - same when he was at Barce and Munich - great manager but will be interesting to see if he could have the same success if he took over a team not getting yearly success and had to balance the books more or he had to bring players through from the youth team instead of just spending. He isnâ€™t quite the chequebook manager but close
		
Click to expand...

Chequebook or not look at the City success. To be fair though look at who Liverpool have brought in over the last few years too. Is it not fair to say Klopp is not a chequebook manager trying to buy a squad to win the PL. It is part and parcel of being a top 3 side. You need to be buying and improving year on year, especially if you have CL aspirations as you know all the major players in Europe (Real, PSG, Juve, Bayern etc) will all be doing the same. Does that make them all chequebook teams?


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 8, 2019)

Ooof. Seeing Dybala, Lo Celso and Sessegnon to Spurs today. Bloody good window for them if they complete those three. Ndombele, Dybala, Lo Celso and Sessegnon is seriously good going, such a difference from last summer.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 8, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Ooof. Seeing Dybala, Lo Celso and Sessegnon to Spurs today. Bloody good window for them if they complete those three. Ndombele, Dybala, Lo Celso and Sessegnon is seriously good going, such a difference from last summer.
		
Click to expand...

From my point of view Sessignon was just waiting to happen and surprised both sides haven't pushed this through earlier and got it done. He was always heading to Spurs and I think with some good management and playing time he really could be a top English player in a few years and will definitely be a full England player regularly. Not sure how close to completion the others are but definitely a statement of intent for the season by Spurs if they are all done deals


----------



## PieMan (Aug 8, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Chequebook or not look at the City success. To be fair though look at who Liverpool have brought in over the last few years too. Is it not fair to say Klopp is not a chequebook manager trying to buy a squad to win the PL. It is part and parcel of being a top 3 side. You need to be buying and improving year on year, especially if you have CL aspirations as you know all the major players in Europe (Real, PSG, Juve, Bayern etc) will all be doing the same. Does that make them all chequebook teams?
		
Click to expand...

Every top side can be classed as a chequebook side, but it's the size and number of cheques that separates City now - and Chelsea when Roman first arrived - from the rest.

Klopp may have a maximum of say 4 cheques with a value of Â£200m to cash in over the course of a season. Pep probably has that per transfer window.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Every top side can be classed as a chequebook side, but it's the size and number of cheques that separates City now - and Chelsea when Roman first arrived - from the rest.

Klopp may have a maximum of say 4 cheques with a value of Â£200m to cash in over the course of a season. Pep probably has that per transfer window.
		
Click to expand...

And the cheques that most clubs cash is from money earned by the club - we have splashed cash recently but on the back off players sales and better financial deals - our owner doesnâ€™t give the club money to spend , 90% of the cheques signed by City come from the pockets of an oil man. 

And as Klopp says Pep can prob happily spend Â£200mil in the window and the club is fine , others clubs will need to balance any spend out. Pep picks his clubs well


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 8, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Ooof. Seeing Dybala, Lo Celso and Sessegnon to Spurs today. Bloody good window for them if they complete those three. Ndombele, Dybala, Lo Celso and Sessegnon is seriously good going, such a difference from last summer.
		
Click to expand...

Thing is though Dan, Spurs are kicking on from last season. They have had a sniff of the promised land and like it. There thin squad, similar to Liverpools is being strengthened. It has been a topic of conversation re the depth of the Spurs squad. Not now. Wonder if Liverpool have owt up there sleeve. Can see Spurs as serious contenders this Season.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 8, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Every top side can be classed as a chequebook side, but it's the size and number of cheques that separates City now - and Chelsea when Roman first arrived - from the rest.

Klopp may have a maximum of say 4 cheques with a value of Â£200m to cash in over the course of a season. Pep probably has that per transfer window.
		
Click to expand...

Don't know whether he has or not (Â£200million), but the days of paying what City think are over the odds have long gone. Fred, Sanchez, VVD, Maguire to name but a few. Look at the age of Citys squad. D Silva in his last year, Aguero and Fernandinho possibly the end of next. But it's a youthful squad. He now don't have to pay excessive fees. Of the top eleven sums paid for players in positions. How many have City paid the most for. One, Mendy at left back.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And the cheques that most clubs cash is from money earned by the club - we have splashed cash recently but on the back off players sales and better financial deals - our owner doesnâ€™t give the club money to spend , 90% of the cheques signed by City come from the pockets of an oil man.

And as Klopp says Pep can prob happily spend Â£200mil in the window and the club is fine , others clubs will need to balance any spend out. Pep picks his clubs well
		
Click to expand...

Back to the oil man moan again. Always the same. Accept it as it ain't changing soon. No different to when Roman arrived at Chelsea and effectively bought a team to win the PL.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And the cheques that most clubs cash is from money earned by the club - *we have splashed cash recently but on the back off players sales and better financial deals - our owner doesnâ€™t give the club money to spend , 90% of the cheques signed by City come from the pockets of an oil man*.

And as Klopp says Pep can prob happily spend Â£200mil in the window and the club is fine , others clubs will need to balance any spend out. Pep picks his clubs well
		
Click to expand...

You're getting as bad as Sawtooth was when Arsenal weren't buying anyone under Wenger. Citys yearly revenue last year was the 5th highest in the world, and $65m more than Liverpools. It's not 2010 anymore, City are a genuinely massive club whose net spend is no longer crazy and that make an absolute fortune commercially every year.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 8, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			You're getting as bad as Sawtooth was when Arsenal weren't buying anyone under Wenger. Citys yearly revenue last year was the 5th highest in the world, and $65m more than Liverpools. It's not 2010 anymore, City are a genuinely massive club whose net spend is no longer crazy and that make an absolute fortune commercially every year.
		
Click to expand...

Still like " liddle Citeh" though Dan. To be honest am loving me time as a City fan, but last night whilst channel surfing I came across the " we're not really here" programme on Sky. God how it took me back to the good old days.
For us old fossils who followed football through the 70's onwards. Happy memories. Don't get me wrong there's been some bad uns. But flippin eck ave had me share of ups and downs.
Off golfin. ðŸ‘


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 8, 2019)

Donâ€™t think we will pull off the midfielder we wanted aswel but our window now stands as

Roberto (back up keeper)
Martin (3rd choice keeper)
Fornals (cracking play maker)
Haller (striker)
Cardoso (young cb, highly rated from Portugal)
Ajeti (Swiss international striker from basil)

Boom ðŸ‘Œ


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 8, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			You're getting as bad as Sawtooth was when Arsenal weren't buying anyone under Wenger. Citys yearly revenue last year was the 5th highest in the world, and $65m more than Liverpools. It's not 2010 anymore, City are a genuinely massive club whose net spend is no longer crazy and that make an absolute fortune commercially every year.
		
Click to expand...

Haven't there been questions raised on how city 'create' the impression of being high revenue earners...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			You're getting as bad as Sawtooth was when Arsenal weren't buying anyone under Wenger. Citys yearly revenue last year was the 5th highest in the world, and $65m more than Liverpools. It's not 2010 anymore, City are a genuinely massive club whose net spend is* no longer crazy *and that make an absolute fortune commercially every year.
		
Click to expand...

Which club is currently under investigation by 3 different governing bodies for FFP irregularties ? City

They are only in the position they are in now because they were able to spend spend spend - 1billion net transfer in ten season , thats 1 billion net. Even their commercial income is dubious when a significant amount of it comes from the middle east oil again.

They spent billions getting to the team now with it come from an owners pocket - it gets ignored by a good deal amount of City fans but they are there only because of the money from someones pocket , and that could very much come to bite them back. In one area Sawtooth was very much spot on in regards the funding for certain clubs and it has nothing to do with us not spending a fortune this summer.



MegaSteve said:



			Haven't there been questions raised on how city 'create' the impression of being high revenue earners...
		
Click to expand...

Exactly - the financial morals at City are very much dubious


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 8, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Haven't there been questions raised on how city 'create' the impression of being high revenue earners...
		
Click to expand...

In the past maybe, but they've become less and less reliant on Arab commercial partners, matchday revenue is continually rising, TV revenue constantly rising, and since Txiki took over the transfers the wages have been under much stricter control dropping from 114% of total income to 52%. In the early days of Mansour they did spend an absolute fortune but with a long-term goal, one they're starting to realise. They've built a now sustainable football club with massive revenue, commercial strength and on the pitch success. They deserve a lot of credit I think.


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 8, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Ooof. Seeing Dybala, Lo Celso and Sessegnon to Spurs today. Bloody good window for them if they complete those three. Ndombele, Dybala, Lo Celso and Sessegnon is seriously good going, such a difference from last summer.
		
Click to expand...

Where are Tottenham getting that kind of money? The stadium was massively over budget, and they are traditionally low payers for wages, and transfers. Hmm. Spending 200m odd in one window? Don't get it.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 8, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Where are Tottenham getting that kind of money? The stadium was massively over budget, and they are traditionally low payers for wages, and transfers. Hmm. Spending 200m odd in one window? Don't get it.
		
Click to expand...

They spent nothing last year. Sold Dembele, sold Trippier, sold Janssen, ~Â£70m for making the CL final + TV money and the possibility of Eriksen going to Madrid. Don't think they're short on cash.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 8, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Ooof. Seeing Dybala, Lo Celso and Sessegnon to Spurs today. Bloody good window for them if they complete those three. Ndombele, Dybala, Lo Celso and Sessegnon is seriously good going, such a difference from last summer.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not holding my breath on Dybala but I feel like Lo Celso and Sessegnon will join. If we got Dybala as well and Eriksen doesn't leave then arguably the squad is a bit too big!


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 8, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			They spent nothing last year.* Sold Sissoko*, sold Trippier, sold Janssen, ~Â£70m for making the CL final + TV money and the possibility of Eriksen going to Madrid. Don't think they're short on cash.
		
Click to expand...

Wait, what!?


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 8, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Wait, what!?
		
Click to expand...

Meant Dembele


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 8, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			In the past maybe, but they've become less and less reliant on Arab commercial partners, matchday revenue is continually rising, TV revenue constantly rising, and since Txiki took over the transfers the wages have been under much stricter control dropping from 114% of total income to 52%. In the early days of Mansour they did spend an absolute fortune but with a long-term goal, one they're starting to realise. They've built a now sustainable football club with massive revenue, commercial strength and on the pitch success. They deserve a lot of credit I think.
		
Click to expand...

It is alleged 'the family' invest sums of money into businesses on the understanding the majority gets reinvested on into areas which 'the family' have nominated... Suspect they are not alone in using such tactics...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2019)

Sessegnon i suspect will be a player to sit behind Rose and just wait for him to develop 

Ndombele looks a very good player and will replace the hole that Dembele left 

No idea about Celso , seems a name thatâ€™s banded around - guess itâ€™s another younger player , looking at stats ( which donâ€™t tell a whole story ) donâ€™t seem to be someone who can replace Eriksen ? 

And canâ€™t see Spurs paying what Dybala wants 

So itâ€™s a decent window for Spurs which prob helps stay in the top 4


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 8, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			In the past maybe, but they've become less and less reliant on Arab commercial partners, matchday revenue is continually rising, TV revenue constantly rising, and since Txiki took over the transfers the wages have been under much stricter control dropping from 114% of total income to 52%. In the early days of Mansour they did spend an absolute fortune but with a long-term goal, one they're starting to realise. They've built a now sustainable football club with massive revenue, commercial strength and on the pitch success. They deserve a lot of credit I think.
		
Click to expand...

But some will keep going on about the oil money, FFP etc. Same old same old and until UEFA etc find City guilty of irregularities and hand out a punishment then it'll continue.


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 8, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But some will keep going on about the oil money, FFP etc. Same old same old and until UEFA etc find City guilty of irregularities and hand out a punishment then it'll continue.
		
Click to expand...

Gosh... UEFA is incapable of recognising irregularities even when they are occurring right under their nose...

Classic brown envelope brigade...


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sessegnon i suspect will be a player to sit behind Rose and just wait for him to develop

Ndombele looks a very good player and will replace the hole that Dembele left

No idea about Celso , seems a name thatâ€™s banded around - guess itâ€™s another younger player , looking at stats ( which donâ€™t tell a whole story ) donâ€™t seem to be someone who can replace Eriksen ?

And canâ€™t see Spurs paying what Dybala wants

So itâ€™s a decent window for Spurs which prob helps stay in the top 4
		
Click to expand...

Sessegnon may get minutes in attack on the left wing to begin with, where there's slightly less responsibility than playing left back. Him with Rose behind him / overlapping could work well. 

Haven't seen Lo Celso play properly. On YouTube he seems like a cross between Eriksen and Lamela. Agreed on Dybala, but the story isn't going away so who knows.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 8, 2019)

I don't think ffp should even be a thing.

The only clubs that complain about it are the ones now being challenged and losing their place at the top table.

Finances in footy have come too far to expect out side investment not to happen. The top clubs who earn billions off their name, earned those names when there were no rules. They then ring fenced the top table. Threatening European league etc to make sure they still get the best opportunities commercially.

Why should the so called top teams have an apparent right to keep being the best simply and the rest feel lucky just to be there? No team noways will come from nowhere and earn a spot simply due to good management.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 8, 2019)

Money from tickets, advertising, sponsors, tv or from the owners back account. It really doesn't matter to most fans, it certainly doesn't get written on the trophies. Pools money built Liverpool, was that cleaner than oil money?

The oil money line is boring now, it has been for a while. People need to move on, although 99% have to be fair. Come on that 1% ðŸ˜


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 8, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Money from tickets, advertising, sponsors, tv or from the owners back account. It really doesn't matter to most fans, it certainly doesn't get written on the trophies. Pools money built Liverpool, was that cleaner than oil money?

The oil money line is boring now, it has been for a while. People need to move on, although 99% have to be fair. Come on that 1% ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Big money owners coming in has always been a thing, it's just the amounts that have got higher. Look at Blackburn in the 90s, spent 4m on Shearer which was a lot then, 5m on Sutton which was an English record I think, more money on Batty, Flowers, they effectively bought the league back then. Chelsea did it in the 2000s with Abramovich. I'm sure it happened pre-Premier League years as well. There's really no need to be bitter about it. Clubs get new investors, things change, that's it. City are where they are. Precious few teams have won trophies over the last 20 years without spending a fair old whack on players.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 8, 2019)

Dybala to Spurs now off apparently.


----------



## pendodave (Aug 8, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Money from tickets, advertising, sponsors, tv or from the owners back account. It really doesn't matter to most fans, it certainly doesn't get written on the trophies. Pools money built Liverpool, was that cleaner than oil money?

The oil money line is boring now, it has been for a while. People need to move on, although 99% have to be fair. Come on that 1% ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Nope. That's what deeply unpleasant dictatorships want. The normalisation of their evils by investment in things we hold dear. It will always be wrong. We would be weak and immoral to think otherwise. The passage of a few years doesn't make anything about it  'better'.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 8, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Dybala to Spurs now off apparently.
		
Click to expand...

Was only a matter of time.


----------



## Slime (Aug 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What about the cool Â£1bn NET that has spent over the past 10 years* since the oil money arrived*

Click to expand...

Phil, just let the bitterness go ..................................... it ain't going to change anything!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 8, 2019)

pendodave said:



			Nope. That's what deeply unpleasant dictatorships want. The normalisation of their evils by investment in things we hold dear. It will always be wrong. We would be weak and immoral to think otherwise. The passage of a few years doesn't make anything about it  'better'.
		
Click to expand...

Who hasn't bought a title or attempted to then? Since the 80's the title has always been won, or close to been won by teams spending big. Leicester is a possible, probable, exception. 

Papas had it right in his recent post, fans of smaller teams are used to it because it has happened for years. The only ones squealing now are big teams who now have an even bigger fish in the sea. For most teams that is normal. It's like an ageing model complaining because she is losing work to younger, prettier women coming through. The irony metre is twitching.


----------



## PieMan (Aug 8, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Don't know whether he has or not (Â£200million), but the days of paying what City think are over the odds have long gone. Fred, Sanchez, VVD, Maguire to name but a few. Look at the age of Citys squad. D Silva in his last year, Aguero and Fernandinho possibly the end of next. But it's a youthful squad. He now don't have to pay excessive fees. Of the top eleven sums paid for players in positions. How many have City paid the most for. One, Mendy at left back.
		
Click to expand...

Of course those days are long gone because you've now reached the stage Chelsea reached - paying Â£10m+ over the odds per player just couldn't be justified. But you're still in that situation whereby you'll go in for a player and still be quoted Â£10-Â£20m extra for a player because the selling club knows City have the money to pay it.

Replacing Aguero will be a massive cost to City, easily over a Â£100m to land someone with 25+ goals a season in them.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 8, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Who hasn't bought a title or attempted to then? Since the 80's the title has always been won, or close to been won by teams spending big. *Leicester *is a possible, probable, exception.

Papas had it right in his recent post, fans of smaller teams are used to it because it has happened for years. The only ones squealing now are big teams who now have an even bigger fish in the sea. For most teams that is normal. It's like an ageing model complaining because she is losing work to younger, prettier women coming through. The irony metre is twitching.
		
Click to expand...

Tbf whilst the pl win was incredible. They flirted the rules getting to the Orem in the first place. Iâ€™d imag8ne wolves cut it close too and got plenty of plaudits last year. Most likely because realistically, neither team are gonna be long term threats to the monopoly.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 8, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Of course those days are long gone because you've now reached the stage Chelsea reached - paying Â£10m+ over the odds per player just couldn't be justified. But you're still in that situation whereby you'll go in for a player and still be quoted Â£10-Â£20m extra for a player because the selling club knows City have the money to pay it.

Replacing Aguero will be a massive cost to City, easily over a Â£100m to land someone with 25+ goals a season in them.
		
Click to expand...

Tbf to city. They havenâ€™t even purchased a player that rates in the top 25 of all time signings. They paid over the odds to encourage players to join. Just like Utd now have to do because they arenâ€™t the best team in the league (arguably the biggest).

Just like any business will do when trying to gain an unnatural market share. Now though theyâ€™ve spent their money and compete on relatively level footing. If theyâ€™re still at the top in 10 years time and spending similar amounts to their rivals. Will we need to go back and complaints that 20 years ago they spent too much?

I think when aguero goes, theyâ€™ll give Jesus a season to see if he can cut it. Theyâ€™ve enough goals form elsewhere imo.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 8, 2019)

It's emerged that Lamps told Luiz he wouldn't be first choice, hence him stamping his feet and saying he wants to go. I find it a bit baffling that Chelsea have left themselves so short at the back though. Rudiger is injured (according to Fantasy PL anyway!) so they're happy to start the season with Zouma and Christensen I guess. And who's the back-up? Tomori?? Looking very threadbare.


----------



## PieMan (Aug 8, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Looking very threadbare.
		
Click to expand...

Well obviously not to the manager, who probably knows a bit more than you with regard to what's going on with his squad!! ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 8, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Well obviously not to the manager, who probably knows a bit more than you with regard to what's going on with his squad!! ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Well he can't use players who don't exist. Who do you think is the 4th choice centre back? I know he had Tomori with him at Derby so perhaps he rates him highly?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbf to city. They havenâ€™t even purchased a player that rates in the top 25 of all time signings. They paid over the odds to encourage players to join. Just like Utd now have to do because they arenâ€™t the best team in the league (arguably the biggest).

Just like any business will do when trying to gain an unnatural market share. Now though theyâ€™ve spent their money and compete on relatively level footing. If theyâ€™re still at the top in 10 years time and spending similar amounts to their rivals. Will we need to go back and complaints that 20 years ago they spent too much?

I think when aguero goes, theyâ€™ll give Jesus a season to see if he can cut it. Theyâ€™ve enough goals form elsewhere imo.
		
Click to expand...

The point that they seem to spend a lot of time making is the â€œour signings arenâ€™t in the top 25â€ and our record is only Â£60mil etc but that masks the spending a little - they have the most expensive paid for squad in European Football - Â£1bn , they didnâ€™t pay Â£90 mil like Utd did but they have bought 3 at Â£50mil - Pep arrived and they spent Â£170mil , then Â£290 mil then Â£90 mil etc - they could afford to buy a keeper for Â£20mil then 12 months later be able to get another for Â£35 mil the next season - all with big net spend. Itâ€™s not the same for most clubs and itâ€™s a privileged position for them to be in and one that enabled them to get Pep to be their manager. 

Right now the team spending the most though and have done for a while is Utd and their wage bill must be getting massive , but itâ€™s what they need to do because of where they are right now. 

I expect in ten years time we may see a drop off from them - the money coming in is under scrutiny even more so with FFP - and if they have broken regs once again hopefully strong sanctions but Iâ€™ll be surprised if FFP shows that much teeth


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The point that they seem to spend a lot of time making is the â€œour signings arenâ€™t in the top 25â€ and our record is only Â£60mil etc but that masks the spending a little - they have the most expensive paid for squad in European Football - Â£1bn , they didnâ€™t pay Â£90 mil like Utd did but they have bought 3 at Â£50mil - Pep arrived and they spent Â£170mil , then Â£290 mil then Â£90 mil etc - *they could afford to buy a keeper for Â£20mil then 12 months later be able to get another for Â£35 mil the next season* - all with big net spend. Itâ€™s not the same for most clubs and itâ€™s a privileged position for them to be in and one that enabled them to get Pep to be their manager.

Right now the team spending the most though and have done for a while is Utd and their wage bill must be getting massive , but itâ€™s what they need to do because of where they are right now.

I expect in ten years time we may see a drop off from them - the money coming in is under scrutiny even more so with FFP - and if they have broken regs once again hopefully strong sanctions but Iâ€™ll be surprised if FFP shows that much teeth
		
Click to expand...

Whereas you just bought one keeper worth more than both combined. I really don't know why you persist with this money angle, people in glass houses comes to mind. Liverpool would not be where they are without spending huge sums.


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 8, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Well obviously not to the manager, who probably knows a bit more than you with regard to what's going on with his squad!! ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Is this your default argument? You pulled it before, saying no one could criticise anyone in football because they're all better managers/players/leg rubbers than we are.


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 8, 2019)

I think City will regress this year. If Liverpool stand still, I think they'll win the league.


----------



## PieMan (Aug 8, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Well he can't use players who don't exist. Who do you think is the 4th choice centre back? I know he had Tomori with him at Derby so perhaps he rates him highly?
		
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter what I think - the manager knows best! But looking at the Chelsea squad there's currently 4 or 5 who can play centrally. So there's cover.

And whilst I love Luiz as a footballer, he's useless in a back 4.

Good bit of business by Lampard IMHO.


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 8, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Doesn't matter what I think - the manager knows best! But looking at the Chelsea squad there's currently 4 or 5 who can play centrally. So there's cover.

And whilst I love Luiz as a footballer, he's useless in a back 4.

Good bit of business by Lampard IMHO.
		
Click to expand...

I too like Luiz as a footballer, I just prefer him when he is in your team, and not mine.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 8, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Doesn't matter what I think - the manager knows best!
		
Click to expand...

Well until Fat Frank signs up to the forum I'll settle for your opinion.




			But looking at the Chelsea squad there's currently 4 or 5 who can play centrally. So there's cover.

And whilst I love Luiz as a footballer, he's useless in a back 4.

Good bit of business by Lampard IMHO.
		
Click to expand...

Who are the 4 or 5? Rudiger, Christensen and Zouma is 3, then you're looking at youth academy players aren't you? Or guys who have been out on loan since time began. Is it finally Michael Hector's time to shine??


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 8, 2019)

United being linked with Llorente. ðŸ˜¢


----------



## PieMan (Aug 8, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Is this your default argument? You pulled it before, saying no one could criticise anyone in football because they're all better managers/players/leg rubbers than we are.
		
Click to expand...

Yes it is because they're the actual ones who know what's going on - not a bunch of melons on a golf forum! ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‚


----------



## PieMan (Aug 8, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Well until Fat Frank signs up to the forum I'll settle for your opinion.


Who are the 4 or 5? Rudiger, Christensen and Zouma is 3, then you're looking at youth academy players aren't you? Or guys who have been out on loan since time began. Is it finally Michael Hector's time to shine?? 

Click to expand...

Fat Frank - hilarious; please no more; I'll lose another rib!! ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Could be - you never know! Given you follow Spurs you should know the benefits of giving youth a chance ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 8, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Yes it is because they're the actual ones who know what's going on - not a bunch of melons on a gold forum! ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Why the hell do you keep sticking your nose in here then? Clearly a waste of time. Just leave us to our football discussion if discussing football doesn't interest you.


----------



## PieMan (Aug 8, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Why the hell do you keep sticking your nose in here then? Clearly a waste of time. Just leave us to our football discussion if discussing football doesn't interest you.
		
Click to expand...

Because someone has to bring some sense to the insanity and utter ðŸ’© posted on this thread!!

So I'll dip out now and you can carry on. ðŸ‘


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 8, 2019)

Strong rumours of Carroll signing for Newcastle. The physio has just been seen in the Aston Martin dealership putting a down payment on a new car. Mucho overtime coming his way ðŸ¤£


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 8, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Because someone has to bring some sense to the insanity and utter ðŸ’© posted on this thread!!

So I'll dip out now and you can carry on. ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

I don't think they do, I'm sure we can cope without. Cheers.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 8, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Strong rumours of Carroll signing for Newcastle. The physio has just been seen in the Aston Martin dealership putting a down payment on a new car. Mucho overtime coming his way ðŸ¤£
		
Click to expand...

Can't see the fans being overly pleased with that as an indication of their intent for the season. Smacks of desperation to me


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 8, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Can't see the fans being overly pleased with that as an indication of their intent for the season. Smacks of desperation to me
		
Click to expand...

I dunno, some fans probably still like him, he did well for them, earned them a big sum of cash, local lad. Didn't really make it elsewhere as he would have liked. As a back-up if he can get fit he might be useful, who knows. Not much to lose on a free deal.


----------



## PieMan (Aug 8, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think they do, I'm sure we can cope without. Cheers.
		
Click to expand...

No I didn't think you would ðŸ¤­ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ‘


----------



## fundy (Aug 8, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Because someone has to bring some sense to the insanity and utter ðŸ’© posted on this thread!!

So I'll dip out now and you can carry on. ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

can you take Luiz back with you please


----------



## PieMan (Aug 8, 2019)

fundy said:



			can you take Luiz back with you please 

Click to expand...

I'm sorry but I cannot comment as I'm not supposed to be here remember? ðŸ˜‰Please don't ask me any questions!! ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## fundy (Aug 8, 2019)

PieMan said:



			I'm sorry but I cannot comment as I'm not supposed to be here remember? ðŸ˜‰Please don't ask me any questions!! ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Ill just assume its done then, no need to watch the clowns on sky sports at 4.55


----------



## fundy (Aug 8, 2019)

Zaha staying at Palace it seems, against his wishes after no one prepared to pay the exorbitant cost they wanted. Be interesting to see whether he accepts it and gets on or sulks until January


----------



## Captainron (Aug 8, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think they do, I'm sure we can cope without. Cheers.
		
Click to expand...

I'd wager that Paul knows more about football than you do (And driving to be fair)


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Why the hell do you keep sticking your nose in here then? Clearly a waste of time. Just leave us to our football discussion if discussing football doesn't interest you.
		
Click to expand...

I would have a small wager that Paul knows just a touch more about football than yourself ðŸ‘


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 8, 2019)

Captainron said:



			I'd wager that Paul knows more about football than you do (And driving to be fair)
		
Click to expand...




Liverpoolphil said:



			I would have a small wager that Paul knows just a touch more about football than yourself ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

How the hell would we know? All he ever says is that there's no point discussing anything because we're not professional football managers. What's the point of that? Do you actually think there's any merit in him coming in here and saying that every now and then? I tried to engage in a discussion about the Chelsea squad and he just shot it down so what's the point.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Aug 8, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1159472359801274368
What a tool.


----------



## 4LEX (Aug 8, 2019)

My predictions for the season.....

1 City - Just different class with the best squad and the best manager. KDB hardly featured and is without doubt the number one midfielder in the league. Their dodgy spell was when Fernandinho was injured and they've got a top class replacement/back up in Rodri. Also strengthed the left back slot. The only issue is the centre back area could be short with an injury but I suspect it won't matter. The chance to equal Man Utd and make it three in a row will be a big motivating factor.

2. Liverpool - I think they'll be a fair way off as they've failed to build on last season and I can't see them getting mid 90 points again. Last season was incredible but they had a lot of fortunate goals and kept an unusual amount of clean sheets. The projected goals for and against indicate City are on another level. Having The Ox back will give energy to the midfield and the full backs are top class. However one bad injury to VVD and they're f**ked in terms of a title challenge or even finishing above Spurs.

3. Spurs - Well run side who have bought well. Still short of a back up striker but Son can fill in there. If Kane can stay fully fit they'll give Liverpool a run for second. Dele Alli was woeful last season and if he gets back to his usual level, combined the midfield additions they'll be much stronger.

4. Arsenal - I'm honest this is purely based on Man Utd being a mess and Chelsea having a bang average squad. Arsenal have signed well although probably could've done with another centre back but the style and attacking quality should see them home.

Man Utd have signed well in defence and are building for the future but it's not enough. The midfield is so static and lacking attacking class it's laughable. Up front theres pace but not one world class player. Rashford will be the main man but he's got to improve big time to get 30 goals which is what you expect for a Man Utd striker. Out wide Martial is too lazy/inconsistent and Lingard is a squad player at best. Combine this with a third rate manager with a dated outlook and a mentality firmly set in the past, rather than the future - gone by Christmas.

Chelsea are going to struggle without Hazard. He carried them to fourth and Pulisic isn't anywhere near that level. Throw in injury to CHO and a feeble amount of firepower it'll be tough for such an experienced manager. I suspect Chelsea know it'll be a season of transition and don't expect much.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 8, 2019)

Â£40m for Iwobi ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## fundy (Aug 8, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Â£40m for Iwobi ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...


if you could just let us know weve bought a proper centre half or 3 would be the greatest window ever!


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 8, 2019)

fundy said:



			if you could just let us know weve bought a proper centre half or 3 would be the greatest window ever!
		
Click to expand...

Centre halves are over rated ðŸ˜


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 8, 2019)

Getting rid of Sturridge,Moreno and Mignolet has instantly improved us. Fact.


----------



## Fish (Aug 8, 2019)

Drinkwater offloaded to Burnley on loan


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 8, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Â£40m for Iwobi ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Eugh. Not quite Zaha is he  Had so much excitement going into today - hoping we'd get Sidibe, Zouma and Zaha over the line and we've ended up with Sidibe and Iwobi. It's not a total disaster but Zaha would have been fantastic. Oh well, either way it's been an excellent transfer window for us, just a shame we didn't manage to get another CB in.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 8, 2019)

City have at last got a european cup winner in their squad, hopefully that's the closest they get to one ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 8, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Eugh. Not quite Zaha is he  Had so much excitement going into today - hoping we'd get Sidibe, Zouma and Zaha over the line and we've ended up with Sidibe and Iwobi. It's not a total disaster but Zaha would have been fantastic. Oh well, either way it's been an excellent transfer window for us, just a shame we didn't manage to get another CB in.
		
Click to expand...

He's a shitter  Walcott.

Imagine the job Big Sam could've done with all this money ðŸ¤”ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Â£40m for Iwobi ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Who has spent that ?


----------



## Fish (Aug 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who has spent that ?
		
Click to expand...

Everton, rushing the paperwork through....


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 8, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			He's a shitter  Walcott.

Imagine the job Big Sam could've done with all this money ðŸ¤”ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

Iwobi on the left, Walcott on the right. The joy. Can't believe we sold Lookman to spend Â£40m on Iwobi. I've been dead impressed with Brands and Silva so far, but don't like this move, have never rated him, hope he proves me wrong.


----------



## chrisd (Aug 8, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Eugh. Not quite Zaha is he  Had so much excitement going into today - hoping we'd get Sidibe, Zouma and Zaha over the line and we've ended up with Sidibe and Iwobi. It's not a total disaster but Zaha would have been fantastic. Oh well, either way it's been an excellent transfer window for us, just a shame we didn't manage to get another CB in.
		
Click to expand...

 Good business,  us keeping Zaha


----------



## fundy (Aug 8, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Centre halves are over rated ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

not at arsenal theyre not haha


----------



## Fish (Aug 8, 2019)

chrisd said:



			Good business,  us keeping Zaha
		
Click to expand...

Only until our ban is up, I can see us reopening our interest in him then..


----------



## fundy (Aug 8, 2019)

chrisd said:



			Good business,  us keeping Zaha
		
Click to expand...

is he going to be happy having submitted a transfer request and not been allowed to leave?


----------



## Fish (Aug 8, 2019)

I'm going to have a flutter on Luiz getting more red cards than assists


----------



## fundy (Aug 8, 2019)

Fish said:



			I'm going to have a flutter on Luiz getting more red cards than assists 

Click to expand...

is he staying at Chlesea then


----------



## chrisd (Aug 8, 2019)

Fish said:



			Only until our ban is up, I can see us reopening our interest in him then..
		
Click to expand...

He will go, but another 6 months and then Â£80m will help


----------



## chrisd (Aug 8, 2019)

fundy said:



			is he going to be happy having submitted a transfer request and not been allowed to leave?
		
Click to expand...

He'll have to be, he signed a long term contract and Hodgson says that he's ok


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 8, 2019)

chrisd said:



			Good business,  us keeping Zaha
		
Click to expand...

For now.. nothing stopping him going aboard .. few more weeks until the window is fully closed


----------



## chrisd (Aug 8, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			For now.. nothing stopping him going aboard .. few more weeks until the window is fully closed
		
Click to expand...

Dont see that happening


----------



## howbow88 (Aug 8, 2019)

I never really thought Zaha would go to Everton, but I am a little relieved that he is staying. 

He probably won't be playing on Saturday though, and that means the best we can hope for is scraping a draw


----------



## fundy (Aug 8, 2019)

chrisd said:



			He'll have to be, he signed a long term contract and Hodgson says that he's ok
		
Click to expand...

not how it works though is it, seen plenty of players not at their best after this sort of scenario


----------



## howbow88 (Aug 8, 2019)

fundy said:



			not how it works though is it, seen plenty of players not at their best after this sort of scenario
		
Click to expand...

Knowing Zaha, he will sulk for a couple of weeks and then realise that his best bet is to play as well as he can so he'll get transfer interest in January. 

If Chelsea's ban gets lifted, he will end up there in January.


----------



## Fish (Aug 8, 2019)

fundy said:



			is he going to be happy having submitted a transfer request and not been allowed to leave?
		
Click to expand...

I don't think he'll want to give himself a poor rapport, I think he's more professional than that and will still just give his all, after-all, he, or the club won't want him to become devalued if all concerned accept that he's going at some point.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 8, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbf to city. They havenâ€™t even purchased a player that rates in the top 25 of all time signings. They paid over the odds to encourage players to join. Just like Utd now have to do because they arenâ€™t the best team in the league (arguably the biggest).

Just like any business will do when trying to gain an unnatural market share. Now though theyâ€™ve spent their money and compete on relatively level footing. If theyâ€™re still at the top in 10 years time and spending similar amounts to their rivals. Will we need to go back and complaints that 20 years ago they spent too much?

I think when aguero goes, theyâ€™ll give Jesus a season to see if he can cut it. Theyâ€™ve enough goals form elsewhere imo.
		
Click to expand...

This re Jesus. ðŸ‘


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 8, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Iwobi on the left, Walcott on the right. The joy. Can't believe we sold Lookman to spend Â£40m on Iwobi. I've been dead impressed with Brands and Silva so far, but don't like this move, have never rated him, hope he proves me wrong.
		
Click to expand...

Bernard on the left, Richarlison on the right. Walcott and Iwobi on the subs bench! I think we have had a cracking window but I don't get the Iwobi signing at all. Presumably Brands and Silva see something there but Â£40m just seems odd for him. Let's hope he proves us both wrong.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 8, 2019)

4LEX said:



			My predictions for the season.....

1 City - Just different class with the best squad and the best manager. KDB hardly featured and is without doubt the number one midfielder in the league. Their dodgy spell was when Fernandinho was injured and they've got a top class replacement/back up in Rodri. Also strengthed the left back slot. The only issue is the centre back area could be short with an injury but I suspect it won't matter. The chance to equal Man Utd and make it three in a row will be a big motivating factor.

2. Liverpool - I think they'll be a fair way off as they've failed to build on last season and I can't see them getting mid 90 points again. Last season was incredible but they had a lot of fortunate goals and kept an unusual amount of clean sheets. The projected goals for and against indicate City are on another level. Having The Ox back will give energy to the midfield and the full backs are top class. However one bad injury to VVD and they're f**ked in terms of a title challenge or even finishing above Spurs.

3. Spurs - Well run side who have bought well. Still short of a back up striker but Son can fill in there. If Kane can stay fully fit they'll give Liverpool a run for second. Dele Alli was woeful last season and if he gets back to his usual level, combined the midfield additions they'll be much stronger.

4. Arsenal - I'm honest this is purely based on Man Utd being a mess and Chelsea having a bang average squad. Arsenal have signed well although probably could've done with another centre back but the style and attacking quality should see them home.

Man Utd have signed well in defence and are building for the future but it's not enough. The midfield is so static and lacking attacking class it's laughable. Up front theres pace but not one world class player. Rashford will be the main man but he's got to improve big time to get 30 goals which is what you expect for a Man Utd striker. Out wide Martial is too lazy/inconsistent and Lingard is a squad player at best. Combine this with a third rate manager with a dated outlook and a mentality firmly set in the past, rather than the future - gone by Christmas.

Chelsea are going to struggle without Hazard. He carried them to fourth and Pulisic isn't anywhere near that level. Throw in injury to CHO and a feeble amount of firepower it'll be tough for such an experienced manager. I suspect Chelsea know it'll be a season of transition and don't expect much.
		
Click to expand...

Bloody hell who let Alex loose on here. An informative assessment. No place for that on here. Cheers  me man. ðŸ‘


----------



## Fish (Aug 8, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Bloody hell who let Alex loose on here. An informative assessment. No place for that on here. Cheers  me man. ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

I'd be interested in who he follows?


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 8, 2019)

I flippin follow Inter


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who has spent that ?
		
Click to expand...

The Ev ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Better than Salah next week ðŸ¤­


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The Ev ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Better than Salah next week ðŸ¤­
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

So linked and bidding for everyone and end up with Iwobi for Â£40mil after selling an excellent prospect in Lookman ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

So linked and bidding for everyone and end up with Iwobi for Â£40mil after selling an excellent prospect in Lookman ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Only Everton would do this ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

I hope Pauldj is ok ðŸ˜‰


----------



## fundy (Aug 8, 2019)

Dennis Praet for less than 20m seems decent business for Leicester


----------



## 4LEX (Aug 8, 2019)

A Championship side so no bias!


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I would have a small wager that Paul knows just a touch more about football than yourself ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

 A shame he never shows it.

â€œDonâ€™t doubt a professional manager. Theyâ€™re a manager and you arenâ€™t.â€

By that logic, you admit Hodgson did the best he could at Liverpool and you wouldnâ€™t question anything he did. 

Unless you want to go against this Paul?


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 8, 2019)

Well I think thatâ€™s been a good window.

Very surprised about Luiz and itâ€™s not a player that Wenger would have gone anywhere near but for Â£8M you canâ€™t really go wrong.

Personally I donâ€™t like Luiz but he might win me over we have to wait and see. Thereâ€™s obviously a lot of respect and friendship with Emery and Luiz so that does bode well for the future.

Shame about Iwobi if that deal happens but we got a fair price for him.

Excited by Pepe and happy too with Tierney and Martinelli. 

Confident about top 4 if we can enjoy the same fortune as Liverpool last year.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Aug 8, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Well I think thatâ€™s been a good window.

Very surprised about Luiz and itâ€™s not a player that Wenger would have gone anywhere near but for Â£8M you canâ€™t really go wrong.

Personally I donâ€™t like Luiz but he might win me over we have to wait and see. Thereâ€™s obviously a lot of respect and friendship with Emery and Luiz so that does bode well for the future.

*Shame about Iwobi if that deal happens but we got a fair price for him*.

Excited by Pepe and happy too with Tierney and Martinelli.

Confident about top 4 if we can enjoy the same fortune as Liverpool last year.
		
Click to expand...

A fair price for him? You bent them over and gave them a good rogering at that price.


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 8, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			A fair price for him? You bent them over and gave them a good rogering at that price.
		
Click to expand...

Not really when you consider his age , I think he will do quite well at Everton. I would have preferred to have kept him a season or 2 longer still a youngster really.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Well I think thatâ€™s been a good window.

Very surprised about Luiz and itâ€™s not a player that Wenger would have gone anywhere near but for Â£8M you canâ€™t really go wrong.

Personally I donâ€™t like Luiz but he might win me over we have to wait and see. Thereâ€™s obviously a lot of respect and friendship with Emery and Luiz so that does bode well for the future.

Shame about Iwobi if that deal happens but we got a fair price for him.

Excited by Pepe and happy too with Tierney and Martinelli.

Confident about top 4 if we can enjoy the *same fortune as Liverpool last year.*

Click to expand...

Welcome back Sean ðŸ˜† fortune? Surely you need the top class players especially at the back ðŸ˜‰

And fair price for Iwobi ? Looks like you manage to Roger them silly for double his value maybe more ðŸ˜†


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Welcome back Sean ðŸ˜† fortune? Surely you need the top class players especially at the back ðŸ˜‰

And fair price for Iwobi ? Looks like you manage to Roger them silly for double his value maybe more ðŸ˜†
		
Click to expand...

Haha start of the season is upon us I believe.

Do you think the same about Chamberlain? He went for the same money. Was he double his value?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Haha start of the season is upon us I believe.

Do you think the same about Chamberlain? He went for the same money. Was he double his value?
		
Click to expand...

I thought we got a good deal on a clearly talented player who stagnated at Arsenal and is streets ahead in regards ability compared to Iwobi


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I thought we got a good deal on a clearly talented player who stagnated at Arsenal and is streets ahead in regards ability compared to Iwobi
		
Click to expand...

Well thatâ€™s a matter of opinion I suppose.

So whatâ€™s your top 6 prediction this season?

I canâ€™t believe that Liverpool will do quite as well as last year, it was reminiscent of Leicester in 2016 when the stars aligned for them. Still a fine team though Liverpool but will probably be at least 20 points worse off this year IMO. ðŸ˜‰

1 Man City
2 Spurs
3 Arsenal
4 Liverpool 
5 Everton 
6 Man Utd


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Well thatâ€™s a matter of opinion I suppose.

So whatâ€™s your top 6 prediction this season?

I canâ€™t believe that Liverpool will do quite as well as last year, it was reminiscent of Leicester in 2016 when the stars aligned for them. Still a fine team though Liverpool but will probably be at least 20 points worse off this year IMO. ðŸ˜‰

1 Man City
2 Spurs
3 Arsenal
4 Liverpool
5 Everton
6 Man Utd
		
Click to expand...

Do you think Iwobi is better than Oxlade ?

Iâ€™m confused but how did the stars align for us ? It was all done on the pitch and in two comps - the best defence in the league prob Europe , one of the best front three in Europe as well and we suddenly drop below Arsenal ?

I believe the Top 2 will be in no particular order

City
Liverpool

Then Spurs

Then itâ€™s between Utd and Chelsea for 4th

With Arsenal 6th

But the last three could go either way - lots of issues with all three teams and a big gap behind the other three


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you think Iwobi is better than Oxlade ?

Iâ€™m confused but how did the stars align for us ? It was all done on the pitch and in two comps - the best defence in the league prob Europe , one of the best front three in Europe as well and we suddenly drop below Arsenal ?

I believe the Top 2 will be in no particular order

City
Liverpool

Then Spurs

Then itâ€™s between Utd and Chelsea for 4th

With Arsenal 6th

But the last three could go either way - lots of issues with all three teams and a big gap behind the other three
		
Click to expand...

Not a great deal in it, if I had to pick one I would choose (a fit) Ox but I certainly wouldnâ€™t say that Ox is streets ahead and their respective fees reflect that too.


----------



## Slime (Aug 8, 2019)

I'll go as follows;

City
Spurs
L'Pool

big gap

Arsenal
Chelsea
United.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Not a great deal in it, if I had to pick one I would choose (a fit) Ox but I certainly wouldnâ€™t say that Ox is streets ahead and their respective fees reflect that too.
		
Click to expand...

Their respective fees show that Oxlade had one year left on his contract I believe and wasnâ€™t signing another one and Everton were that desperate to bring in a forward they would have happily paid a lot. I donâ€™t know many who would pick Iwobi in their team over Ox


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Their respective fees show that Oxlade had one year left on his contract I believe and wasnâ€™t signing another one and Everton were that desperate to bring in a forward they would have happily paid a lot. I donâ€™t know many who would pick Iwobi in their team over Ox
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool were fortunate with injuries last year and I lost count of flukey and last minute winners.ðŸ‘


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 8, 2019)

Slime said:



			I'll go as follows;

City
Spurs
L'Pool

big gap

Arsenal
Chelsea
United.
		
Click to expand...

I might downgrade Spurs if they lose Eriksen, heâ€™s a massive player for them.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Liverpool were fortunate with injuries last year and I lost count of flukey and last minute winners.ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ well at one stage we were down to one CB having three injured , we lost both our right backs and played a midfielder there , same with the left back , we lost one centre midfielder for the whole season , had one new signing out for half the season , another new signing picked up a number of injuries , faced the the last 4 weeks without one of the most important players we have but apart from that we were fortunate with injuries

And the game lasts 90mins plus injury - does the goal mean less because they are scored in the last minute ? Not sure about â€œflukeyâ€ though.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The Ev ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Better than Salah next week ðŸ¤­
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1158997558875840512
ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 8, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Liverpool were fortunate with injuries last year and I lost count of flukey and last minute winners.ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

I agree they didn't suffer too many injuries, re the last minute winners. Does that mean Utd won multiple lucky titles as they scored plenty.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Aug 8, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Not really when you consider his age , I think he will do quite well at Everton. I would have preferred to have kept him a season or 2 longer still a youngster really.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure I can agree with that. The last three years he's made 26 apps with 3 goals, 26 apps with 3 goals and 35 apps with 3 goals. I'm not convinced that those are the stats of a 23 year old that make him worth Â£40 million but fair play to Arsenal for getting that much for him.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 8, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Liverpool were fortunate with injuries last year and I lost count of flukey and last minute winners.ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚behave


----------



## ColchesterFC (Aug 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1158997558875840512
ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Not really that much different than players joining Man Utd, Liverpool or Chelsea with a view to getting a move to a "big" club like Real Madrid, Barcelona or Bayern Munich, like Suarez or Coutinho have done with you. But I guess it makes you feel better when a player joins a lesser club, that is one of your bigger rivals, and expresses a wish to go on to bigger and better things.


----------



## Beezerk (Aug 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Their respective fees show that Oxlade had one year left on his contract I believe and wasnâ€™t signing another one and Everton were that desperate to bring in a forward they would have happily paid a lot. I donâ€™t know many who would pick Iwobi in their team over Ox
		
Click to expand...

I'd have neither, they're both brainless clowns on the pitch.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Aug 8, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Not really that much different than players joining Man Utd, Liverpool or Chelsea with a view to getting a move to a "big" club like Real Madrid, Barcelona or Bayern Munich, like Suarez or Coutinho have done with you. But I guess it makes you feel better when a player joins a lesser club, that is one of your bigger rivals, and expresses a wish to go on to bigger and better things.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah but they develop bad backs or bite other players to force the move ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 8, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Don't know whether he has or not (Â£200million), but the days of paying what City think are over the odds have long gone. Fred, Sanchez, VVD, Maguire to name but a few. Look at the age of Citys squad. D Silva in his last year, Aguero and Fernandinho possibly the end of next. But it's a youthful squad. He now don't have to pay excessive fees. Of the top eleven sums paid for players in positions. How many have City paid the most for. One, Mendy at left back.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe not smashing the transfer records in the high deals, but most of your recent signings have all been 50mill plus.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 8, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Maybe not smashing the transfer records in the high deals, but most of your recent signings have all been 50mill plus.
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s the market tho isnâ€™t it?

VVD and Alison both 60 million plus but few years ago would be so high

Wan basssie cost United 50 million after one season in the league!

Maguire 80 million

City have helped cause this of course but you canâ€™t say oh your signings are 50 million, thatâ€™s just the rate for decent players 

We paid 24 million for a Spanish midfielder who most wonâ€™t even have heard of! Itâ€™s a punt ..


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 8, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I don't think ffp should even be a thing.

The only clubs that complain about it are the ones now being challenged and losing their place at the top table.

Finances in footy have come too far to expect out side investment not to happen. The top clubs who earn billions off their name, earned those names when there were no rules. They then ring fenced the top table. Threatening European league etc to make sure they still get the best opportunities commercially.

Why should the so called top teams have an apparent right to keep being the best simply and the rest feel lucky just to be there? No team noways will come from nowhere and earn a spot simply due to good management.
		
Click to expand...

And if Pompey suddenly built an 80k ground, signed Messi, Ronaldo and another 20 players for 3 billion, you would accept the inevitable success that it would bring with good grace, and pat them on the back?

Forest, Burnley, Derby, City, Everton, Villa all climbed to the top from the 60's onwards by normal means so why couldnt it be done again?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 8, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Money from tickets, advertising, sponsors, tv or from the owners back account. It really doesn't matter to most fans, it certainly doesn't get written on the trophies. Pools money built Liverpool, was that cleaner than oil money?

The oil money line is boring now, it has been for a while. People need to move on, although 99% have to be fair. Come on that 1% ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Prove that the pools money built Liverpool.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			And if Pompey suddenly built an 80k ground, signed Messi, Ronaldo and another 20 players for 3 billion, you would accept the inevitable success that it would bring with good grace, and pat them on the back?

Forest, Burnley, Derby, City, Everton, Villa all climbed to the top from the 60's onwards by normal means so why couldnt it be done again?
		
Click to expand...

Re the 60â€™s, The golf between the big clubs then and the rest wasnâ€™t anywhere near as vast as it is now. No cub now has a chance to grow naturally and challenge. Any youth player with any talent, or a potential star is snapped up by a bigger club. Just look how many you took off us as soon as they looked half decent. Leicester was a freak occurrence,  and even they cheated in the championship. Spurs did it organically and still got nowhere, youâ€™ve spent almost as much as anyone in the league and still not won it. I get that itâ€™s not been earned through football means, but if money wasnâ€™t injected then the last 20 years would have been entirely dominated by UTD. No Chelsea or city, Arsenal hamstrung by the stadium. Granted you may have won 1 title, but theyâ€™d of had another 19. 

As to your comments about Pompey, They won an FA cup on loans they never paid back. Did it hurt? Yes, but thatâ€™s because theyâ€™re a footballing rival and I donâ€™t want them to do well. I wouldnâ€™t support a rival no matter how they got success. But City, Chelsea etc werenâ€™t your rivals prior to the money. So the resentment is based purely on jealousy, not an actual rivalry.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Liverpool were fortunate with injuries last year and I lost count of flukey and last minute winners.ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Bitterness doesnt suit you Sawtooth.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Prove that the pools money built Liverpool.
		
Click to expand...

Really? It had no impact?

On the Iwobi front it now looks like Â£28m rising to Â£34m. Not quite as bad as a straight Â£40m. Still over the top at initial sighting.


----------



## Slime (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ well at one stage we were down to one CB having three injured , we lost both our right backs and played a midfielder there , same with the left back , we lost one centre midfielder for the whole season , had one new signing out for half the season , another new signing picked up a number of injuries , faced the the last 4 weeks without one of the most important players we have but apart from that we were fortunate with injuries

And the game lasts 90mins plus injury - *does the goal mean less because they are scored in the last minute ? *Not sure about â€œflukeyâ€ though.
		
Click to expand...

They were all flukes when United scored them!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 9, 2019)

Slime said:



			They were all flukes when United scored them!
		
Click to expand...

Werenâ€™t they all in â€œFergie Timeâ€ !


----------



## Beezerk (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Werenâ€™t they all in â€œFergie Timeâ€ !
		
Click to expand...

It's Klopp o' clock these days.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 9, 2019)

My lads just called me. He is off to watch Bali utd in 10 mins. They are playing a team called Semen. He has googled them. Reckons there  W*#k. Honest ðŸ˜‚
5$ a ticket.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1158997558875840512
ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure Derek from Twitter, a Liverpool fan with 243 followers is a very credible source. Funny how he's ignored all requests to share a link to the direct quote itself. 

And even if it is true, I'd rather sign a talented ambitious forward than sign no-one at all.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Maybe not smashing the transfer records in the high deals, but most of your recent signings have all been 50mill plus.
		
Click to expand...

And most now worth a good bit more. ðŸ˜


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 9, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Really? It had no impact?

On the Iwobi front it now looks like Â£28m rising to Â£34m. Not quite as bad as a straight Â£40m. Still over the top at initial sighting.
		
Click to expand...

I can't for the life of me work out why you offloaded Lookman and then brought in Iwobi. Ridiculous decision. Haven't you learned your lesson on picking up rubbish wingers from Arsenal??


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 9, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			I'm sure Derek from Twitter, a Liverpool fan with 243 followers is a very credible source. Funny how he's ignored all requests to share a link to the direct quote itself.

And even if it is true, I'd rather sign a talented ambitious forward than sign no-one at all.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, I read that and immediately thought it was made up. To believe it at face value would be naive at best in this day and age. For all we know he doesn't speak English yet and that could be a dodgy translation, or just completely made up since it's Twitter.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 9, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			It's Klopp o' clock these days.
		
Click to expand...

Klopp O clock ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

That genius - did you make that up all by your self , how cute ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 9, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I can't for the life of me work out why you offloaded Lookman and then brought in Iwobi. Ridiculous decision. Haven't you learned your lesson on picking up rubbish wingers from Arsenal??
		
Click to expand...

We love an over-priced/flashy winger with no end product. Look at Walcott, Bolasie, Mirallas, Lennon and now Iwobi. Although tbf Lookman is very similar, flashy skills, great at beating people but his end product was very poor last season.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 9, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I can't for the life of me work out why you offloaded Lookman and then brought in Iwobi. Ridiculous decision. Haven't you learned your lesson on picking up rubbish wingers from Arsenal??
		
Click to expand...

You and me both. There is a lot of head scratching going on right now. Silva mustn't have fancied Lookman though. He has seen him in training, gave him the odd 20 mins but hasn't been impressed. I'm pleased with the other comings and goings but the Iwobi one ðŸ¤”ðŸ¤”


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 9, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Bitterness doesnt suit you Sawtooth.
		
Click to expand...

No itâ€™s not bitterness itâ€™s just how it was. Same with Leicester in 16 and Chelsea in 17, obviously very good teams both those years too but they needed that bit of luck with injuries and the rub of the green to make it happen.

Chances are things wonâ€™t play out the same way for Liverpool this year plus rivals will have learned a bit on how to play against you a bit better especially now that you havenâ€™t changed anything or anyone from last season.

Plus will the players be up again for the fight in the same way after putting everything into it last year and still coming up short? Iâ€™m not so sure.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 9, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			We love an over-priced winger with no end product. Look at Walcott, Bolasie, Mirallas and now Iwobi. Although tbf Lookman is very similar, flashy skills, great at beating people but his end product was very poor last season.
		
Click to expand...

Thought he had a bit of potential, particularly after that loan spell with RBZ where he scored a few goals. Not surprised they were happy to take him. Obviously Marco Silva didn't think so. Iwobi looks like the finished article even though he's only 23. Generally I felt Everton's window was really good. You are really lacking a CB, but perhaps the boss is showing trust in Holgate. I'm not sure Rojo was the right answer anyway. Otherwise Delph, Kean and Sidibe were excellent signings. Won't comment on Gbamin as I've never seen him play.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 9, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			No itâ€™s not bitterness itâ€™s just how it was. Same with Leicester in 16 and Chelsea in 17, obviously very good teams both those years too but they needed that bit of luck with injuries and the rub of the green to make it happen.

Chances are things wonâ€™t play out the same way for Liverpool this year plus rivals will have learned a bit on how to play against you a bit better especially now that you havenâ€™t changed anything or anyone from last season.

Plus will the players be up again for the fight in the same way after putting everything into it last year and still coming up short? Iâ€™m not so sure.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, I think the gap to City will be larger this time. Your last point especially - having had the season of their lives and still finishing 2nd, it's very hard to go out with the mentality that you need to improve upon that even more. It's bound to be demoralising. That's where maybe a new signing or two might have helped with motivation for the squad.

They did seem to have a high proportion of offside goals etc, which VAR will sort out this season as well.


----------



## Beezerk (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Klopp O clock ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

That genius - did you make that up all by your self , how cute ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Does your gittishness come naturally or is it something you've had to work on from  being a small child?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 9, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I agree, I think the gap to City will be larger this time. Your last point especially - having had the season of their lives and still finishing 2nd, it's very hard to go out with the mentality that you need to improve upon that even more. It's bound to be demoralising. That's where maybe a new signing or two might have helped with motivation for the squad.

They did seem to have a high proportion of offside goals etc, which VAR will sort out this season as well.
		
Click to expand...

We had a few very poor penalties given against us as well especially in Europe.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 9, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Thought he had a bit of potential, particularly after that loan spell with RBZ where he scored a few goals. Not surprised they were happy to take him. Obviously Marco Silva didn't think so. Iwobi looks like the finished article even though he's only 23. Generally I felt Everton's window was really good. You are really lacking a CB, but perhaps the boss is showing trust in Holgate. I'm not sure Rojo was the right answer anyway. Otherwise Delph, Kean and Sidibe were excellent signings. Won't comment on Gbamin as I've never seen him play.
		
Click to expand...

He did do well for RBL - 9 goal contributions in 11 games, but since coming back to Everton he's produced very little. Played more minutes last season than he did for RBL but contributed just 2 assists. He made 5 starts and contributed 1 goal and 1 assist and having watched him in person he was electric on the ball, fantastic at beating players but his end product was really lacking and quite frustrating to watch. He does have a lot of potential and I'm disappointed we've sold him but I don't think he's a huge loss in terms of output for the coming season and think Iwobi backs up Richarlison and Bernard better and is more likely to contribute goals and assists, but guess we'll wait and see.

As for the defence, we're definitely 1 short. Mina has been worryingly injury prone since joining us, and Holgate is still lacking in PL experience. Rojo probably wasn't the answer, but getting him in would have been better than nothing. Gutted we couldn't get Zouma across the line, the Keane and Zouma partnership was key to our success at the back-end of last year.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 9, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I agree, I think the gap to City will be larger this time. Your last point especially - having had the season of their lives and still finishing 2nd, it's very hard to go out with the mentality that you need to improve upon that even more. It's bound to be demoralising. That's where maybe a new signing or two might have helped with motivation for the squad.

They did seem to have a high proportion of offside goals etc, which VAR will sort out this season as well.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think motivation will be an issue and Klopp will be pushing hard to go one step further and beat City this season. Yes teams will play differently this season against them, yes they were fortunate with injuries which may not be the case (or they may get away with it again) but did they really have more "offside" goals than anyone else?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 9, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			No itâ€™s not bitterness itâ€™s just how it was. Same with Leicester in 16 and Chelsea in 17, obviously very good teams both those years too but they needed that bit of luck with injuries and the rub of the green to make it happen.

Chances are things wonâ€™t play out the same way for Liverpool this year plus rivals will have learned a bit on how to play against you a bit better especially now that you havenâ€™t changed anything or anyone from last season.

Plus will the players be up again for the fight in the same way after putting everything into it last year and still coming up short? Iâ€™m not so sure.
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s a major problem with Arsenal they donâ€™t score late winners as they give up after 75 mins.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 9, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			No itâ€™s not bitterness itâ€™s just how it was. Same with Leicester in 16 and Chelsea in 17, obviously very good teams both those years too but they needed that bit of luck with injuries and the rub of the green to make it happen.

Chances are things wonâ€™t play out the same way for Liverpool this year plus rivals will have learned a bit on how to play against you a bit better especially now that you havenâ€™t changed anything or anyone from last season.

Plus will the players be up again for the fight in the same way after putting everything into it last year and still coming up short? Iâ€™m not so sure.
		
Click to expand...

Last season we played the same way as we did the season before but we added the best defence in the league to the way we played - did teams learn from the season before ? It was the same in the CL ? Did teams learn ? 

Yep the personnel havenâ€™t changed- the same personnel that did so well last season  , why wouldnâ€™t they be up for it again ? They came so close , got a taste of victory in the CL can only motivate them to go again and get over the line this time.

Our team imo is still just below City because they have that extra little bit who can come in but itâ€™s certainly not that big a gap between as proven over the last two seasons - Klopp has moved the team forward every season , can see no reason why he wonâ€™t again. And certainly donâ€™t see the four teams bridging that 20 point plus gap that was created. 


Orikoru said:



			I agree, I think the gap to City will be larger this time. Your last point especially - having had the season of their lives and still finishing 2nd, it's very hard to go out with the mentality that you need to improve upon that even more. It's bound to be demoralising. That's where maybe a new signing or two might have helped with motivation for the squad.

*They did seem to have a high proportion of offside goals etc, which VAR will sort out this season as well.*

Click to expand...

Is there some statistical proof to back that up ? Or do all the top teams get a bit more of the rub of the green - there was also no doubt times where lack of VAR went against us


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 9, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I don't think motivation will be an issue and Klopp will be pushing hard to go one step further and beat City this season. Yes teams will play differently this season against them, yes they were fortunate with injuries which may not be the case (or they may get away with it again) but did they really have more "offside" goals than anyone else?
		
Click to expand...

Maybe Klopp training methods are better so we donâ€™t pick up many injuries like some teams.
To play like we do we need to be super fit.
Fans forget the luck their teams get were all the same. 
But only we were lucky ,City got a few lucky ones late in the season


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is there some statistical proof to back that up ? Or do all the top teams get a bit more of the rub of the green - there was also no doubt times where lack of VAR went against us
		
Click to expand...

I don't think there's a recorded database of incorrect refereeing decisions. Not one I can find anyway. I just remember a spell when Liverpool benefitted several times in the space of a couple of months. Offside goals and soft penalties after Salah's flouncing. No matter though, what's done is done, the point is VAR will make this a very different season for all teams. I for one have filled my fantasy team with penalty takers to start with.


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 9, 2019)

I am not sure Iwobi's future is as a winger. Sure, he has been played there, but he has been played out of position, and is not really suited.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 9, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			Does your gittishness come naturally or is it something you've had to work on from  being a small child?
		
Click to expand...

Gittishness ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚




Orikoru said:



			I don't think there's a recorded database of incorrect refereeing decisions. Not one I can find anyway. I just remember a spell when Liverpool benefitted several times in the space of a couple of months. Offside goals and soft penalties after Salah's flouncing. No matter though, what's done is done, the point is VAR will make this a very different season for all teams. I for one have filled my fantasy team with penalty takers to start with. 

Click to expand...

I remember after the West Ham game where we scored from an offside goal the accusation was we were having lots

https://www.101greatgoals.com/news/...cored-11-offside-league-goals-its-actually-3/

VAR will have a big change on the league - for me a very poor change


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			Does your gittishness come naturally or is it something you've had to work on from  being a small child?
		
Click to expand...


Natural, obviously. 

No one can master gittishness like Phil does ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			No itâ€™s not bitterness itâ€™s just how it was. Same with Leicester in 16 and Chelsea in 17, obviously very good teams both those years too but they needed that bit of luck with injuries and the rub of the green to make it happen.

Chances are things wonâ€™t play out the same way for Liverpool this year plus rivals will have learned a bit on how to play against you a bit better especially now that you havenâ€™t changed anything or anyone from last season.

Plus will the players be up again for the fight in the same way after putting everything into it last year and still coming up short? Iâ€™m not so sure.
		
Click to expand...

With VAR coming in, I hope Klopp has paid all of the VAR refs or  we wont be having no rub of the green or favourable decisions like all of those we had last season. 

We had injuries last season, Salah,Bobby,Shaqiri, Gomez, Henderson,Milner,Matip,Kieta,Sturridge, Lallana, Ox all had spells out. 

Will it be harder for City now teams have more time to workout how to beat them?


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 9, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Will it be harder for City now teams have more time to workout how to beat them?
		
Click to expand...

Doubt it. Back to back dominant seasons and few worked out how to beat them last year despite playing the same brand of football as the season before. Can't see anything but another City title win.


----------



## Beezerk (Aug 9, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Doubt it. Back to back dominant seasons and few worked out how to beat them last year despite playing the same brand of football as the season before. Can't see anything but another City title win.
		
Click to expand...

My only fear for City is with Kompany gone (granted he's been injured a fair bit) it leaves Walker and Stones to take up the slack, they are worth a few goals a season at least (for the opposition ðŸ˜‚)


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 9, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			My only fear for City is with Kompany gone (granted he's been injured a fair bit) it leaves Walker and Stones to take up the slack, they are worth a few goals a season at least (for the opposition ðŸ˜‚)
		
Click to expand...

Doubt they'll be that worried, he only made 13 starts last season. Laporte, Otamendi, Stones and Walker with Fernandinho tracking back and dropping into defence when needed should be enough quality at the back for them.


----------



## Beezerk (Aug 9, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Doubt they'll be that worried, he only made 13 starts last season. Laporte, Otamendi, Stones and Walker with Fernandinho tracking back and dropping into defence when needed should be enough quality at the back for them.
		
Click to expand...

Fair point but Walker and Stones switch off far too often so no amount of tracking back can cover for the sloppy errors they churn out.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 9, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			Fair point but Walker and Stones switch off far too often so no amount of tracking back can cover for the sloppy errors they churn out.
		
Click to expand...

Walker's not going to be starting at CB often though. I imagine Laporte and Stones will be the main partnership of choice, with Otamendi stepping in as first back-up. I also see Cancelo taking Walker's RB position long-term too and see him as a better all-round RB than Walker. Kompany's been an injury liability the last 2 seasons (only made 15 starts the season before last) and City have been superb. I don't think Pep will be worried.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Doubt it. Back to back dominant seasons and *few worked out how to beat them last year despite playing the same brand of football as the season before*. Can't see anything but another City title win.
		
Click to expand...

Few worked out how to beat Liverpool last season and they played exactly the same brand as the previous season.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 9, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Re the 60â€™s, The golf between the big clubs then and the rest wasnâ€™t anywhere near as vast as it is now. No cub now has a chance to grow naturally and challenge. Any youth player with any talent, or a potential star is snapped up by a bigger club. Just look how many you took off us as soon as they looked half decent. Leicester was a freak occurrence,  and even they cheated in the championship. Spurs did it organically and still got nowhere, youâ€™ve spent almost as much as anyone in the league and still not won it. I get that itâ€™s not been earned through football means, but if money wasnâ€™t injected then the last 20 years would have been entirely dominated by UTD. No Chelsea or city, Arsenal hamstrung by the stadium. Granted you may have won 1 title, but theyâ€™d of had another 19.

As to your comments about Pompey, They won an FA cup on loans they never paid back. Did it hurt? Yes, but thatâ€™s because theyâ€™re a footballing rival and I donâ€™t want them to do well. I wouldnâ€™t support a rival no matter how they got success. But City, Chelsea etc werenâ€™t your rivals prior to the money. So the resentment is based purely on jealousy, not an actual rivalry.
		
Click to expand...

Ok, so do we just want it to end up being a business, more than a sport whereby whoever spends the most wins the most, as a rule of thumb. I dont.

Its not jealousy, if you dont want to do it the same way. As Ive said before I would only want an Arab sheik, if all the other 19 all had them.

No matter how its dressed up a large number of neutral fans see Chelsea and city's success as slightly tainted due to it all being about rapid investment by a billionaire who either wants a toy, or to make a country a bit more likeable. Its also why in 100,000 people you would be hard pressed to find someone who didnt enjoy Leiceter's title.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 9, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Really? It had no impact?

On the Iwobi front it now looks like Â£28m rising to Â£34m. Not quite as bad as a straight Â£40m. Still over the top at initial sighting.
		
Click to expand...

Who said NO impact?

You said it "built" Liverpool, vast difference.

Proof?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 9, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I don't think motivation will be an issue and Klopp will be pushing hard to go one step further and beat City this season. Yes teams will play differently this season against them, yes they were fortunate with injuries which may not be the case (or they may get away with it again) but did they really have more "offside" goals than anyone else?
		
Click to expand...

Dont believe all you hear, one rumour had it that City had 13 of them last year. Could be true, though.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 9, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think there's a recorded database of incorrect refereeing decisions. Not one I can find anyway. I just remember a spell when Liverpool benefitted several times in the space of a couple of months. Offside goals and soft penalties after Salah's flouncing. No matter though, what's done is done, the point is VAR will make this a very different season for all teams. I for one have filled my fantasy team with penalty takers to start with. 

Click to expand...

You have just given your tactics away!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 9, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Doubt it. Back to back dominant seasons and few worked out how to beat them last year despite playing the same brand of football as the season before. Can't see anything but another City title win.
		
Click to expand...

Not enough teams have a go at them ,so they donâ€™t need a great defence ,hence no Cl medals as them teams do know how to play against them.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 9, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			You have just given your tactics away!
		
Click to expand...

That's fine, I don't have any money on this one.


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 9, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think there's a recorded database of incorrect refereeing decisions. Not one I can find anyway. I just remember a spell when Liverpool benefitted several times in the space of a couple of months. Offside goals and soft penalties after Salah's flouncing. No matter though, what's done is done, the point is VAR will make this a very different season for all teams. I for one have filled my fantasy team with penalty takers to start with. 

Click to expand...

VAR will deter diving and rule out some of the dubious hand ball decisions resulting in less penalties not more surely?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 9, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			VAR will deter diving and rule out some of the dubious hand ball decisions resulting in less penalties not more surely?
		
Click to expand...

Yes when players adjust the way they play but thatâ€™s going to take time.

So still some silly ones for me.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ok, so do we just want it to end up being a business, more than a sport whereby whoever spends the most wins the most, as a rule of thumb. I dont.

Its not jealousy, if you dont want to do it the same way. As Ive said before I would only want an Arab sheik, if all the other 19 all had them.

No matter how its dressed up a large number of neutral fans see Chelsea and city's success as slightly tainted due to it all being about rapid investment by a billionaire who either wants a toy, or to make a country a bit more likeable. Its also why in 100,000 people you would be hard pressed to find someone who didnt enjoy Leiceter's title.
		
Click to expand...

Leicester flouted the rules just as much as City and Chelsea when getting themselves promoted. So whilst it was a fairytale win, it could still be tainted if you wanted to look at it this way. 

I'm also not saying that I like footy being a business, but quite simply it is. Your owners stopped further expansion after your supporters complained about ticket prices. They all have balance sheets. 

If City and Chelsea continued to spend more than everyone else then I agree its not on. But Chelsea nowaways don't, and City in the last few windows have spent similar amounts to their rivals. Of course they needed an injection of cash otherwise the status quo would simply have remained. 

All I know is that in the time I've watched football which is less than some. The last 10/15 have had more varied title winners than the previous 10/15.


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 9, 2019)

Footy was a whole lot better when the focus was the folk on the terraces... Now it's more about the 'bottom line' and viewing figures...

Sadly, the clock can't be turned back...


----------



## Reemul (Aug 9, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			With VAR coming in, I hope Klopp has paid all of the VAR refs or  we wont be having no rub of the green or favourable decisions like all of those we had last season.

We had injuries last season, Salah,Bobby,Shaqiri, Gomez, Henderson,Milner,Matip,Kieta,Sturridge, Lallana, Ox all had spells out.

Will it be harder for City now teams have more time to workout how to beat them?
		
Click to expand...


Didn't you play the whole season with 9 men due to those injuries, rose tinted glasses going on there me thinks.


----------



## 4LEX (Aug 9, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Few worked out how to beat Liverpool last season and they played exactly the same brand as the previous season.
		
Click to expand...

That's actually totally incorrect.Liverpool changed their style, tempo and tactics massively last season, compared to the season before. They were super high tempo and blew teams away in 17/18 but last season it was much more controlled and defensively sound. It was actually an quite amazing change and really impressed me about Klopp.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 9, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			VAR will deter diving and rule out some of the dubious hand ball decisions resulting in less penalties not more surely?
		
Click to expand...

No that hasn't been the case so far. VAR has already seen the award of some ridiculous hand ball decisions that I don't think would have been given in open play. The problem is in slow motion it often looks worse, because the arm appears to have been in that position for an age, rather than in real time it could only be half a second as they pull it out of the way. All the surrounding context is lost and people have been punished for some quite unfair situations in my view. Where previously a ref may not have awarded a penalty because he wasn't 100% sure, now it will be reviewed, potentially look a lot worse on the slow motion replay, and then be awarded.

For diving, yes we hope it will go the other way. It will certainly rule out the ones where there was no contact you would have thought.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 9, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			With VAR coming in, I hope Klopp has paid all of the VAR refs or  we wont be having no rub of the green or favourable decisions like all of those we had last season.

We had injuries last season, Salah,Bobby,Shaqiri, Gomez, Henderson,Milner,Matip,Kieta,Sturridge, Lallana, Ox all had spells out.

Will it be harder for City now teams have more time to workout how to beat them?
		
Click to expand...

Last sentence Stu, last year it was harder. Much much harder. I remember when City were going through a stage where they found it hard to break teams down. They just sat back and the flowing football of the previous year was just not there. Teams had learned from the previous " centurions" year. That was one of the reasons Pep said he bought Mahrez, to help break down teams that sit back. Think Liverpool of this year could find that " patience" is the key word.
Looks like Citys injuries have already started with Sane ðŸ˜–


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Who said NO impact?

You said it "built" Liverpool, vast difference.

Proof?
		
Click to expand...

Semantics. The Moores fortune began from the pools, they built liverpool up to be the force they became, 50 odd years at liverpool I believe. This is all long established.

Why does it bother you? Your history is your history.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 9, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Last sentence Stu, last year it was harder. Much much harder. I remember when City were going through a stage where they found it hard to break teams down. They just sat back and the flowing football of the previous year was just not there. Teams had learned from the previous " centurions" year. That was one of the reasons Pep said he bought Mahrez, to help break down teams that sit back. Think Liverpool of this year could find that " patience" is the key word.
*Looks like Citys injuries have already started with Sane* ðŸ˜–
		
Click to expand...

He was going to Bayern anyway.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2019)

Reemul said:



			Didn't you play the whole season with 9 men due to those injuries, rose tinted glasses going on there me thinks.
		
Click to expand...

No Rose rinted glasses here, just proving the myth that we were lucky/fortunate with injuries. Only Ox was out for the whole season.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Last sentence Stu, last year it was harder. Much much harder. I remember when City were going through a stage where they found it hard to break teams down. They just sat back and the flowing football of the previous year was just not there. Teams had learned from the previous " centurions" year. That was one of the reasons Pep said he bought Mahrez, to help break down teams that sit back. Think Liverpool of this year could find that " patience" is the key word.
Looks like Citys injuries have already started with Sane ðŸ˜–
		
Click to expand...

Well Sawtooth thinks it will be easier for everyone else  now to beat us ðŸ™„


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2019)

4LEX said:



			That's actually totally incorrect.Liverpool changed their style, tempo and tactics massively last season, compared to the season before. They were super high tempo and blew teams away in 17/18 but last season it was much more controlled and defensively sound. It was actually an quite amazing change and really impressed me about Klopp.
		
Click to expand...

You've got a point to be fair but we still played the same style albeit a bit more defensive, which is what was needed.


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 9, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Well Sawtooth thinks it will be easier for everyone else  now to beat us ðŸ™„
		
Click to expand...

Easier yes but still wonâ€™t be easy.

People will obviously learn lessons on an individual and team basis.  I think thatâ€™s pretty obvious. Itâ€™s probably a main reason why teams seldom win back to back league titles. 

Just saying that Liverpool wonâ€™t reach 97 points or anywhere near it this year. Closer to 77 points I reckon.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Easier yes but still wonâ€™t be easy.

People will obviously learn lessons on an individual and team basis.  I think thatâ€™s pretty obvious. Itâ€™s probably a main reason why teams seldom win back to back league titles.

Just saying that Liverpool wonâ€™t reach 97 points or anywhere near it this year. *Closer to 77 points I reckon.*

Click to expand...

Iâ€™d take that as long as City only get 76.

Do you think City will get 98pts ?


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 9, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Iâ€™d take that as long as City only get 76.

Do you think City will get 98pts ?
		
Click to expand...

The way some teams have strengthened in the prem. I would be happy to get 90. Quote me on that at the end of the season. Think Spurs and other have really had some good signings with the Christmas window to come. That said, I think Pep has added to the squad with both eyes on Europe.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			The way some teams have strengthened in the prem. I would be happy to get 90. Quote me on that at the end of the season. Think Spurs and other have really had some good signings with the Christmas window to come. That said, I think Pep has added to the squad with both eyes on Europe.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not arsed so long as we finish 1 pt above 2nd ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 9, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm not arsed so long as we finish 1 pt above 2nd ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

Al do a deal, we will finish second in the prem if you finish second in the champs league ðŸ˜ðŸ‘


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Al do a deal, we will finish second in the prem if you finish second in the champs league ðŸ˜ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

DealðŸ¤


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 9, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Al do a deal, we will finish second in the prem if you finish second in the champs league ðŸ˜ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Donâ€™t think thatâ€™s allowed !
Would be nice though.


----------



## fundy (Aug 9, 2019)

This cant be for real surely? wtf is going on. Newcastle twice as bad as Baku?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49299414


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 9, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Semantics. The Moores fortune began from the pools, they built liverpool up to be the force they became, 50 odd years at liverpool I believe. This is all long established.

Why does it bother you? Your history is your history.
		
Click to expand...

Semantics are small things, but not for the difference in words that you used,

I dont need a history lesson, I live here, dont forget.

You do realise that the main money in the Moores family was Everton's owner, don't you. In that case why wasnt Everton the dominant team in English football between 1960 and 1990?

Did you see Liverpool outspending rivals by 3 times the transfer fees? 1st million pound player - not us, massive rebuilds of the stadium, no still mainly done since Moores left. Signings from Blackpool, Scunthorpe, Motherwell, Ayr United, and many more lesser lights who we were buying from and not other European giants. Wouldnt massive Moores money have kept Keegan, Souness, Rush..........

Proof?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 9, 2019)

fundy said:



			This cant be for real surely? wtf is going on. Newcastle twice as bad as Baku?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49299414

Click to expand...

wind up surely


----------



## fundy (Aug 9, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			wind up surely
		
Click to expand...

feels like april the 1st but widely reported it seems


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 9, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Leicester flouted the rules just as much as City and Chelsea when getting themselves promoted. So whilst it was a fairytale win, it could still be tainted if you wanted to look at it this way.

I'm also not saying that I like footy being a business, but quite simply it is. Your owners stopped further expansion after your supporters complained about ticket prices. They all have balance sheets.

If City and Chelsea continued to spend more than everyone else then I agree its not on. But Chelsea nowaways don't, and City in the last few windows have spent similar amounts to their rivals. Of course they needed an injection of cash otherwise the status quo would simply have remained.

All I know is that in the time I've watched football which is less than some. The last 10/15 have had more varied title winners than the previous 10/15.
		
Click to expand...

Check out number of winners for 1960-1990 winners compared to 1990-2019, and thats whats more impressive for me.

Heres a mad thought, lets say Kuwait decided to buy Soton, but after 5 years of mad investment they said that they wanted 25% of their home matches to be played in Kuwait, 3 years later it was 50%, 3 years later it was all the CL games. May sound mad, but would you rule it out, totally?

I can see in 20 years time it being O-man "City" v "United" Arab Emirates, 2 state sponsored "clubs", you heard it here first. Sorry, but I'll take the sport before the business.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 9, 2019)

fundy said:



			feels like april the 1st but widely reported it seems
		
Click to expand...

I can imagine they were a bit shook up after the carjacking attempt.
But they have played since, Newcastle to dangerous?
Plus they will be on the coach and plane.
Thought one of them was a tough guy ,wonder which one it is.


----------



## fundy (Aug 9, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I can imagine they were a bit shook up after the carjacking attempt.
But they have played since, Newcastle to dangerous?
Plus they will be on the coach and plane.
Thought one of them was a tough guy ,wonder which one it is.
		
Click to expand...

Reading between the lines im guessing some threats have been made and Arsenal security have advised against them playing. Crazy


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2019)

I'm off the match now, hope you've all got new batteries for your sky remotes, I wouldnt like any of you to miss any action ðŸ˜‰

 Happy New Football season, even Pauldj ðŸ»ðŸ»


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Check out number of winners for 1960-1990 winners compared to 1990-2019, and thats whats more impressive for me.

Heres a mad thought, lets say Kuwait decided to buy Soton, but after 5 years of mad investment they said that they wanted 25% of their home matches to be played in Kuwait, 3 years later it was 50%, 3 years later it was all the CL games. *May sound mad, but would you rule it out, totally?*

I can see in 20 years time it being O-man "City" v "United" Arab Emirates, 2 state sponsored "clubs", you heard it here first. Sorry, *but I'll take the sport before the business.*

Click to expand...

Trying to use hyperbole to make a point? In answer to the question, Yes I would rule it out. The FA couldnâ€™t even get game 39 off the ground, I donâ€™t fear owners relocating teams to other countries. The only real case of that was Wimbledon. A far cry from the nasty oil owners.....

To point 2. I agree it should be a sport. But football now involves vast sums of money. No team can climb to the top without massive outside investment. And this is where it does look like jeolousy or at list bitterness from the teams whoâ€™ve got more competition.  

If no team was allowed to spend outside their means since the prem formed. Yes I know football was around before then, but thatâ€™s when the financial change started. Imo the league would have been as bad as Scotland. Itâ€™d and arsenal battling it out, splitting championships. Then arsenal build a stadium and UTD win every year after that such was their financial clout compared to everyone else. 

The ordinal point I made pages ago wasnâ€™t that football is better now, or that it should be a business. BUT simply that it IS a business. By all means say you is the good old days, but as a club you either accept it and take on the challenge, or you turn into sawtooth.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 9, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Leicester flouted the rules just as much as City and Chelsea when getting themselves promoted. So whilst it was a fairytale win, it could still be tainted if you wanted to look at it this way.

I'm also not saying that I like footy being a business, but quite simply it is. Your owners stopped further expansion after your supporters complained about ticket prices. They all have balance sheets.

If City and Chelsea continued to spend more than everyone else then I agree its not on. *But Chelsea nowaways don't, and City in the last few windows have spent similar amounts to their rivals. *Of course they needed an injection of cash otherwise the status quo would simply have remained.

All I know is that in the time I've watched football which is less than some. The last 10/15 have had more varied title winners than the previous 10/15.
		
Click to expand...

Is that not mainly down to FFP though ? 

Chelsea it appears now are self sufficient as a club and spend what they earn but it took a good 10 years to get to that point. And itâ€™s no surprise that they arenâ€™t having the same impact or attracting the same level of players as they did when Roman arrived. I actually think this season Chelsea are going to surprise a few with being half forced to play some of their talented youth 

And City outdid what Chelsea did in terms of spending but they now will spend what they make because ultimately they are under investigation by FFP. All over the clubs are working under FFP which for me is a better way - clubs only spending what they earn , no more Leeds , Pompey etc clubs who spent spent spent and ended up with debt up to their eyeballs. 

And I thought our owners are still looking to expand they stadium


----------



## Slime (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Werenâ€™t they all in â€œFergie Timeâ€ !
		
Click to expand...

BOOOOOM!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Semantics are small things, but not for the difference in words that you used,

I dont need a history lesson, I live here, dont forget.

You do realise that the main money in the Moores family was Everton's owner, don't you. In that case why wasnt Everton the dominant team in English football between 1960 and 1990?

Did you see Liverpool outspending rivals by 3 times the transfer fees? 1st million pound player - not us, massive rebuilds of the stadium, no still mainly done since Moores left. Signings from Blackpool, Scunthorpe, Motherwell, Ayr United, and many more lesser lights who we were buying from and not other European giants. Wouldnt massive Moores money have kept Keegan, Souness, Rush..........

Proof?
		
Click to expand...

Yes, I do know that John Moores had a shareholding in Everton, he was clearly a football man. I have no problem with that, why would I or any other fan?

Their empire started with the pools, it expanded into clothing. It started with the pools though, it was a clear factor. 

It's a dead line of discussion for me, carry on if you want to.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 9, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Trying to use hyperbole to make a point? In answer to the question, Yes I would rule it out. The FA couldnâ€™t even get game 39 off the ground, I donâ€™t fear owners relocating teams to other countries. The only real case of that was Wimbledon. A far cry from the nasty oil owners.....

To point 2. I agree it should be a sport. But football now involves vast sums of money. No team can climb to the top without massive outside investment. And this is where it does look like jeolousy or at list bitterness from the teams whoâ€™ve got more competition. 

If no team was allowed to spend outside their means since the prem formed. Yes I know football was around before then, but thatâ€™s when the financial change started. Imo the league would have been as bad as Scotland. Itâ€™d and arsenal battling it out, splitting championships. Then arsenal build a stadium and UTD win every year after that such was their financial clout compared to everyone else.

The ordinal point I made pages ago wasnâ€™t that football is better now, or that it should be a business. BUT simply that it IS a business. By all means say you is the good old days, but as a club you either accept it and take on the challenge, or you turn into sawtooth.
		
Click to expand...

We have continued to try and challenge it, mainly been unsuccesful, but unlike Arsenal didnt give up. 

Jealous of Arsenal and Unites success since prem started - bang on, Chelsea and city's - nope. Thats the difference.

Anyway, I'm late.

Best of for the season, lar.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 9, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Yes, I do know that John Moores had a shareholding in Everton, he was clearly a football man. I have no problem with that, why would I or any other fan?

Their empire started with the pools, it expanded into clothing. It started with the pools though, it was a clear factor.

It's a dead line of discussion for me, carry on if you want to.
		
Click to expand...

which means you cant supply any proof.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is that not mainly down to FFP though ?

Chelsea it appears now are self sufficient as a club and spend what they earn but it took a good 10 years to get to that point. And itâ€™s no surprise that they arenâ€™t having the same impact or attracting the same level of players as they did when Roman arrived. I actually think this season Chelsea are going to surprise a few with being half forced to play some of their talented youth

And City outdid what Chelsea did in terms of spending but they now will spend what they make because ultimately they are under investigation by FFP. All over the clubs are working under FFP which for me is a better way - clubs only spending what they earn , no more Leeds , Pompey etc clubs who spent spent spent and ended up with debt up to their eyeballs.

And I thought our owners are still looking to expand they stadium
		
Click to expand...

It may well be because off Ffp. I actually think Roman limited spending as soon as city were bought out tbh. And city as has been said, donâ€™t necessarily require the megastar signings anymore. Just constant refreshing. 

The Pompey and Leeds examples arenâ€™t necessarily the same imo, a fit and proper test should show the owners have the finances to cover the deals. Plenty of teams including saints almost went to the wall and that wasnâ€™t beciase of one bad owner.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 9, 2019)

Interesting that Carragher thinks Liverpool are short of a few players. Points out only 1 recognised LB in the squad with Moreno departing, and if they're unlucky with injuries to the key players (6-8 weeks) it could cause them a problem.

Should be a good game this - 2 very entertaining sides. Looking forward to seeing Max Aarons close up and see how good he is compared to a high level attack.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And I thought our owners are still looking to expand they stadium
		
Click to expand...

Give it a rest Phil,you just stuck Liverpool in front of your name on here because ya mum bought you a Liverpool kit in the 80s. 

You get all your info off Twitter & give it the big en like youâ€™re a proper scouserðŸ¤£


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 9, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Interesting that Carragher thinks Liverpool are short of a few players. *Points out only 1 recognised LB in the squad with Moreno departing, and if they're unlucky with injuries to the key players (6-8 weeks) it could cause them a problem.*

Should be a good game this - 2 very entertaining sides. Looking forward to seeing Max Aarons close up and see how good he is compared to a high level attack.
		
Click to expand...

Well even with Moreno in the squad last year when Robbo was out Moreno still didnâ€™t play - Milner came in before him, and we have young Larouci in the squad and he is a left back ( and already looks better than what Moreno was )

And itâ€™s funny how even Carragher forgets the injuries we did have - Gomez was key and we lost him for a significant period , other players throughout the squad we lost for smaller periods - we had injuries last season , I think only two were ever present , VVD and Alisson.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well even with Moreno in the squad last year when Robbo was out Moreno still didnâ€™t play - Milner came in before him, and we have young Larouci in the squad and he is a left back ( and already looks better than what Moreno was )

And itâ€™s funny how even Carragher forgets the injuries we did have - Gomez was key and we lost him for a significant period , other players throughout the squad we lost for smaller periods - we had injuries last season , I think only two were ever present , VVD and Alisson.
		
Click to expand...

Should probably check your facts. Robertson started 36 games last season. The 2 he didn't play were against Cardiff and Burnley. Who started against Cardiff? Moreno. Who started against Burnley? Moreno. So if one of your best and most influential players from last season who was almost ever present gets injured, you're confident that Larouci is good enough to replace him? And you say he looks better than Moreno already - what are you judging that on?

Salah appeared in every game last season. Only played 23 minutes against Burnley but every other game he played over 70 minutes. Mane appeared in 36 games, and Firmino 34. Long-term injuries to any of those 3 or Robertson and you could be in trouble. Carragher is spot on.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			which means you cant supply any proof.
		
Click to expand...

You want me to go through historical accounts and see if John Moores used any money specifically raised via his pools business and that money eventually made it's way into liverpool FC? Has LP hijacked your account? Obviously that never happened. Clearly he kept that entirely separately to keep the football club entirely pure and morally superior. 

In 30yrs time will city fans be arguing that the Sheik earned his money in various interests and oil had nothing to do with it?


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverpool looking a little shaky at the back. Pukki's got in between TAA and Gomez 3 times in the first 15 minutes, and if Stiepermann could shoot they may have had a goal already. Carragher pointed out that teams in pre-season were getting in behind TAA regularly and it was a worry for him coming in. Norwich maybe not the team to exploit that, but they've had chances already. 

Liverpool look so dangerous going forward though, very positive start down the left-side. Origi and Robertson have been excellent early.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 9, 2019)

First game back in the Prem, big match against Liverpool at Anfield. Just keep it tight early doors lads, nothing silly.

Oh.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 9, 2019)

Quality finish from Salah. Paying off having him as FPL captain already.


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 9, 2019)

Have Liverpool forgotten how to defend over the summer?


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 9, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Have Liverpool forgotten how to defend over the summer?
		
Click to expand...

Seems like it. Massive gap between TAA and Gomez leading to 2 more Norwich chances since my last post. TAA's not going to last long at this rate, can see Liverpool ending up with Gomez, Matip, VVD and Robertson against the top teams.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 9, 2019)

Knew I should have gone VVD over TAA in FPL. Goal and Assist for Salah though, I'll take it.


----------



## fundy (Aug 9, 2019)

Polite request but can we discuss the football on here, not a play by play of your fantasy side after each goal, be a very very long season if so!!!

PS get in VVD


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Knew I should have gone VVD over TAA in FPL. Goal and Assist for Salah though, I'll take it.
		
Click to expand...

I think over the season TAA is the better bet.
Can't pick em all lol


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverpoolâ€™s season over.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 9, 2019)

Well, at least Liverpool picked up a back-up keeper in the Summer


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 9, 2019)

Simon Mignolet is absolutely fuming right now.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 9, 2019)

What a fantastic ball from TAA that was. 2nd brilliant ball in from him, Firmino should have buried the first one, Origi makes no mistake with that one. Great goal.


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 9, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			What a fantastic ball from TAA that was. 2nd brilliant ball in from him, Firmino should have buried the first one, Origi makes no mistake with that one. Great goal.
		
Click to expand...

TAA - the modern full back summed up.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 9, 2019)

Delia's just been spotted heading out to the centre circle to address the away fans:


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 9, 2019)

VAR? WHERE ARE YOU?


----------



## Old Skier (Aug 9, 2019)

How did they manage to play football in the past with only 3 match officials, a whistles and two flags.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 9, 2019)

__
		http://instagr.am/p/B080ak1hPQe87ciFztyt6JOYKXwKZ_mNd4NedU0/

Football Premier style Bali. Bali utd beat Semen 4-1 i think


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 9, 2019)

Pukki in between TAA and Gomez again, and this time he scores. Liverpoolâ€™s defending on that right side has been dreadful.


----------



## hairball_89 (Aug 9, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Pukki in between TAA and Gomez again, and this time he scores. Liverpoolâ€™s defending on that right side has been dreadful.
		
Click to expand...

Yep. Terrible. 100% not good enough and Jurgen will have to look at it otherwise better teams will cause us MEGA problems.


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 9, 2019)

TAA and Gomez certainly arenâ€™t looking great here.


----------



## user2010 (Aug 9, 2019)

Job done


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 9, 2019)

Thatâ€™s a nice way to start the season , bit clumsy at times especially the backline but nice to get off to solid start

Norwich look very bright going forward , a lot of tricky players and the goalscorer looks a great player they are going to cause a lot teams problems


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 9, 2019)

fundy said:



			This cant be for real surely? wtf is going on. Newcastle twice as bad as Baku?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49299414

Click to expand...

I had a weekend in Newcastle when the champs league final was on. Know exactly how they feel. ðŸ¤”ðŸ˜–ðŸ˜


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Check out number of winners for 1960-1990 winners compared to 1990-2019, and thats whats more impressive for me.

Heres a mad thought, lets say Kuwait decided to buy Soton, but after 5 years of mad investment they said that they wanted 25% of their home matches to be played in Kuwait, 3 years later it was 50%, 3 years later it was all the CL games. May sound mad, but would you rule it out, totally?

I can see in 20 years time it being O-man "City" v "United" Arab Emirates, 2 state sponsored "clubs", you heard it here first. Sorry, but I'll take the sport before the business.
		
Click to expand...

If Kelly or Scrotum had wrote that I would of ignored that. But cmon LB. it's like me saying Liverpool will be Called Liverpool Rednecks FC soccer club playing 50% of ther games in Fenway Park Boston.


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 9, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			If Kelly or Scrotum had wrote that I would of ignored that. But cmon LB. it's like me saying Liverpool will be Called Liverpool Rednecks FC soccer club playing 50% of ther games in Fenway Park Boston.
		
Click to expand...

Mate. Short pier. Long walk.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 9, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Should probably check your facts. Robertson started 36 games last season. The 2 he didn't play were against Cardiff and Burnley. Who started against Cardiff? Moreno. Who started against Burnley? Moreno. So if one of your best and most influential players from last season who was almost ever present gets injured, you're confident that Larouci is good enough to replace him? And you say he looks better than Moreno already - what are you judging that on?

Salah appeared in every game last season. Only played 23 minutes against Burnley but every other game he played over 70 minutes. Mane appeared in 36 games, and Firmino 34. Long-term injuries to any of those 3 or Robertson and you could be in trouble. Carragher is spot on.
		
Click to expand...

Dan, could you please go somewhere else with your factual comments. It is not welcome on a topic where non factual comments are King. 
That aside, I may be the only one on here who find your intellectual contribution enlightening. Keep um coming


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 9, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Mate. Short pier. Long walk.
		
Click to expand...

Big doughnut, small hole.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 9, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You want me to go through historical accounts and see if John Moores used any money specifically raised via his pools business and that money eventually made it's way into liverpool FC? Has LP hijacked your account? Obviously that never happened. Clearly he kept that entirely separately to keep the football club entirely pure and morally superior.

In 30yrs time will city fans be arguing that the Sheik earned his money in various interests and oil had nothing to do with it?
		
Click to expand...

Nope dont expect you to show me Ian St John's contract, but at least back your argument up with even a few examples of how we were propped up by the Moores family.

Everton were more synonomous with the Moores family than Liverpool were. As I say, we bought lots of our players from lower divisions and Scotland, so can you show how we were built or doped by their money in anything even resembling a city/Chelsea example.

Did we build a new stadium, brand new training ground, lots of top class players from rivals - go on, if its so obvious give me even a few examples.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 9, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			If Kelly or Scrotum had wrote that I would of ignored that. But cmon LB. it's like me saying Liverpool will be Called Liverpool Rednecks FC soccer club playing 50% of ther games in Fenway Park Boston.
		
Click to expand...

With the way money is talking more and more, dont rule out franchising, the way it happens in the USA.

Read what the Juventus chairman said in the 1980's or 90's when he was getting stick from the fans. He took Juventus on the road, filling stadiums in Milan, Napoli and all over Italy, as their fan base is like United's.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 9, 2019)

Guys, real football is back, we don't have to talk about this ancient rubbish anymore.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			With the way money is talking more and more, dont rule out franchising, the way it happens in the USA.

Read what the Juventus chairman said in the 1980's or 90's when he was getting stick from the fans. He took Juventus on the road, filling stadiums in Milan, Napoli and all over Italy, as their fan base is like United's.
		
Click to expand...

Surely that disproves the very point you were trying to make? That it would happen simply because of new out of town owners?
Imo if a club did that, they would very quickly notice a drop off in support. Unless it's a league decision.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 9, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Surely that disproves the very point you were trying to make? That it would happen simply because of new out of town owners?
Imo if a club did that, they would very quickly notice a drop off in support. Unless it's a league decision.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, I dont get your analogy.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Sorry, I dont get your analogy.
		
Click to expand...

Earlier we discussed Saints heading to Kuwait because of owners? It looked to me like you were saying that franchise football may start because of these new (oil) owners.

Now your mentioning that Juventus went on an out of town tour. I'm not sure of their ownership in the 80/90's, but unless it was an oil baron, surely it shows that owners can and will do what they want. Whether they are big bag oil barons or not. Making your initial point (kuwait) mute.

Anyways, we've done the what era is better discussion before fella. Us youngsters always tend to like the new era 

More importantly, does Gomez stay at centre or will Matip come in?


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			With the way money is talking more and more, dont rule out franchising, the way it happens in the USA.

Read what the Juventus chairman said in the 1980's or 90's when he was getting stick from the fans. He took Juventus on the road, filling stadiums in Milan, Napoli and all over Italy, as their fan base is like United's.
		
Click to expand...

I can remember back in about 1998, we were on holiday in Minorca. I was talking to a guy who said the days of football were massively changing. He was adamant that for Cities like Nottingham, Sheffield, some north west towns. For them to survive. They would have to amalgamate to combine recourses to survive. They would have to combine supporters and ther income to survive. Can anyone honestly tell me that supporters of Sheffield Utd and Wednesday who have spent decades calling one another pigs and despise the very sight of one another now want to sing side by side. There's no chance I will support Oman City.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 9, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Pukki in between TAA and Gomez again, and this time he scores. Liverpoolâ€™s defending on that right side has been dreadful.
		
Click to expand...

Very good run by striker but I donâ€™t think itâ€™s so much the defence.
Just look how much time and space the lad who played the ball through had, thatâ€™s the worry for me.
TAA is not the best defender but think Matip covered him better than Gomez.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 9, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Earlier we discussed Saints heading to Kuwait because of owners? It looked to me like you were saying that franchise football may start because of these new (oil) owners.

Now your mentioning that Juventus went on an out of town tour. I'm not sure of their ownership in the 80/90's, but unless it was an oil baron, surely it shows that owners can and will do what they want. Whether they are big bag oil barons or not. Making your initial point (kuwait) mute.

Anyways, we've done the what era is better discussion before fella. Us youngsters always tend to like the new era 

More importantly, does Gomez stay at centre or will Matip come in?
		
Click to expand...

My point was that if owners decide they want to up sticks, they may be able to do it more in the future,as money is ruling more and more. I'm not sure if it was the Agnellis who owned them at that time or not (owners of Fiat), but the chairman had had enough of the fans criticism so to show them, he took them on the road to show that he didnt need the local fan base, as Juventus could sell out anywhere in Italy, anyway. The power of the owner can trump anyone/anything, is what I was saying. Ergo, if the Glazers thought, sod this for a laugh, these norwich scarves are doing my nut in, I'm gonna get Man U to play at Wembley instead, away from them whiny locals. 

I wouldnt rule out a European super league either.

Gomez was the equal of VVD for the start of last season, so overall think he is better than Matip, although to be fair Matip was great towards the end of last season. Healthy rivalry there.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			My point was that if owners decide they want to up sticks, they may be able to do it more in the future,as money is ruling more and more. I'm not sure if it was the Agnellis who owned them at that time or not (owners of Fiat), but the chairman had had enough of the fans criticism so to show them, he took them on the road to show that he didnt need the local fan base, as Juventus could sell out anywhere in Italy, anyway. The power of the owner can trump anyone/anything, is what I was saying. Ergo, if the Glazers thought, sod this for a laugh, these norwich scarves are doing my nut in, I'm gonna get Man U to play at Wembley instead, away from them whiny locals. 

I wouldnt rule out a European super league either.

Gomez was the equal of VVD for the start of last season, so overall think he is better than Matip, although to be fair Matip was great towards the end of last season. Healthy rivalry there.
		
Click to expand...

Ah ok, got ya. Was more about where football in general is heading! 

There is a new world comp for clubs to be played in the summer isn't there? I think that's to test the waters. 
https://www.sport-english.com/en/ne...o-know-about-fifas-new-club-world-cup-6819749 

I think Gomez is the long term aim, maybe it was ring rust, but i thought that during both your games there have been a few holes down that side. Against city you just credit the calibre of the opposition, when its Norwich, maybe you ask a few questions.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 9, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			I can remember back in about 1998, we were on holiday in Minorca. I was talking to a guy who said the days of football were massively changing. He was adamant that for Cities like Nottingham, Sheffield, some north west towns. For them to survive. They would have to amalgamate to combine recourses to survive. They would have to combine supporters and ther income to survive. Can anyone honestly tell me that supporters of Sheffield Utd and Wednesday who have spent decades calling one another pigs and despise the very sight of one another now want to sing side by side. There's no chance I will support Oman City.
		
Click to expand...

I hope it doesnt happen, but if more clubs go the way of Bury and Bolton, you may get others who may try to amalgamate same city clubs, especially if they felt that both Bristols, both Sheffields could potentially be premiership and maybe even CL stalwarts. Didnt someone try and do it with the Bristols (fnar,fnar) years ago, same with Hibs/Hearts.

Just look at how Doncaster Belles were treated in the women's league. 

One club for the east midlands, the south east, Birmingham, North east, Yorkshire, Manchester, Liverpool vs Hampshire United . 10 teams with 100k stadiums to represemt the "area", in the fizzy pop league.

May not happen in my lifetime, but I would not rule it out.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 9, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Ah ok, got ya. Was more about where football in general is heading! 

There is a new world comp for clubs to be played in the summer isn't there? I think that's to test the waters.
https://www.sport-english.com/en/ne...o-know-about-fifas-new-club-world-cup-6819749

I think Gomez is the long term aim, maybe it was ring rust, but i thought that during both your games there have been a few holes down that side. Against city you just credit the calibre of the opposition, when its Norwich, maybe you ask a few questions.
		
Click to expand...

TAA struggled towards the end of last season and seemed to be jogging back all the time, or out of position a lot, but he was supposed to be carrying a back injury so thought that may have been it.

I think he needs a rocket at the mo, his offensive play is masking some deep rooted problems with intensity at times, I feel.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 10, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Should probably check your facts. Robertson started 36 games last season. The 2 he didn't play were against Cardiff and Burnley. Who started against Cardiff? Moreno. Who started against Burnley? Moreno. So if one of your best and most influential players from last season who was almost ever present gets injured, *you're confident that Larouci is good enough to replace him? *And you say he looks better than Moreno already - what are you judging that on?

Salah appeared in every game last season. Only played 23 minutes against Burnley but every other game he played over 70 minutes. Mane appeared in 36 games, and Firmino 34. Long-term injuries to any of those 3 or Robertson and you could be in trouble. Carragher is spot on.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah,Moreno was absolute dogshit over 5 seasons, hes lucky he never got bombed out after the Europa League Final performance,I'd rather play stevie wonder LB than Moreno.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 10, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			My point was that if owners decide they want to up sticks, they may be able to do it more in the future,as money is ruling more and more. I'm not sure if it was the Agnellis who owned them at that time or not (owners of Fiat), but the chairman had had enough of the fans criticism so to show them, he took them on the road to show that he didnt need the local fan base, as Juventus could sell out anywhere in Italy, anyway. The power of the owner can trump anyone/anything, is what I was saying. Ergo, if the Glazers thought, sod this for a laugh, these norwich scarves are doing my nut in, I'm gonna get Man U to play at Wembley instead, away from them whiny locals. 

I wouldnt rule out a European super league either.

Gomez was the equal of VVD for the start of last season, so overall think he is better than Matip, although to be fair Matip was great towards the end of last season. Healthy rivalry there.
		
Click to expand...

2023-24 is the season a 32 team 4 league  UEFA super league/champions league is proposed for. As it stands CIty wouldnt be in it.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 10, 2019)

Gutted for Allisson, though my 1st thought was thank fuck were not bringing Mignolet on ðŸ¤­ðŸ¤­


----------



## Hobbit (Aug 10, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I hope it doesnt happen, but if more clubs go the way of Bury and Bolton, you may get others who may try to amalgamate same city clubs, especially if they felt that both Bristols, both Sheffields could potentially be premiership and maybe even CL stalwarts. Didnt someone try and do it with the Bristols (fnar,fnar) years ago, same with Hibs/Hearts.

Just look at how Doncaster Belles were treated in the women's league.

One club for the east midlands, the south east, Birmingham, North east, Yorkshire, Manchester, Liverpool vs Hampshire United . 10 teams with 100k stadiums to represemt the "area", in the fizzy pop league.

May not happen in my lifetime, but I would not rule it out.
		
Click to expand...

What you've described isn't too dissimilar to what happened to American Football.


----------



## Beezerk (Aug 10, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I hope it doesnt happen, but if more clubs go the way of Bury and Bolton, you may get others who may try to amalgamate same city clubs, especially if they felt that both Bristols, *both Sheffields* could potentially be premiership and maybe even CL stalwarts. Didnt someone try and do it with the Bristols (fnar,fnar) years ago, same with Hibs/Hearts.
.
		
Click to expand...

I can tell you right now, that will never ever happen.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 10, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Gutted for Allisson, though my 1st thought was thank fuck were not bringing Mignolet on ðŸ¤­ðŸ¤­
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 10, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			I can tell you right now, that will never ever happen.
		
Click to expand...

Daughter works in Sheffield, her ex is blades, current is owls. The loathing for one another's club is on a par with Utd and Liverpool.


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 10, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			2023-24 is the season a 32 team 4 league  UEFA super league/champions league is proposed for. As it stands CIty wouldnt be in it.
		
Click to expand...

I suspect they're only a couple of brown envelopes short of qualifying...


----------



## fundy (Aug 10, 2019)

Didnt take Pep long to teach Rhodri to commit foul after foul without getting booked


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 10, 2019)

Been a fair game so far

Donâ€™t see it lasting city will step it up


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 10, 2019)

fundy said:



			Didnt take Pep long to teach Rhodri to commit foul after foul without getting booked 

Click to expand...

Am having his name on the back of me shirt. ðŸ˜
That aside. Am impressed with west ham. Very impressed, having seen some dire football of late. It looks attractive.


----------



## fundy (Aug 10, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Am having his name on the back of me shirt. ðŸ˜
That aside. Am impressed with west ham. Very impressed, having seen some dire football of late. It looks attractive.
		
Click to expand...

Rhodri Tash, I can see it now lol


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 10, 2019)

fundy said:



			Didnt take Pep long to teach Rhodri to commit foul after foul without getting booked 

Click to expand...

Perfect replacement for Fernandinho then ðŸ˜†


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 10, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Am having his name on the back of me shirt. ðŸ˜
That aside. Am impressed with west ham. Very impressed, having seen some dire football of late. It looks attractive.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s MP tash

We played some great football last season but he has really put his stamp on the team this season

I donâ€™t think we will have a chance in this one but beats last seasons start


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 10, 2019)

Love you VAR ðŸ˜‚


----------



## fundy (Aug 10, 2019)

gotta love the old 4mm offside decision


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 10, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Iâ€™d take that as long as City only get 76.

Do you think City will get 98pts ?
		
Click to expand...

No not quite 98 again. Probably more like 90. Very hard even for a team like City to keep that level going.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 10, 2019)

So Sterling was inside was he?

Looked line another wonky line when they checked it to me.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 10, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			So Sterling was inside was he?

Looked line another wonky line when they checked it to me.
		
Click to expand...

I thought was off but not gonna argue with VAR

Itâ€™s quick and decisions seem correct


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 10, 2019)

Sterling looked so annoyed Aguero didn't let him take the pen  VAR involved again, going to take some getting used to, but at least we're getting the right decisions.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 10, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Sterling looked so annoyed Aguero didn't let him take the pen  VAR involved again, going to take some getting used to, but at least we're getting the right decisions.
		
Click to expand...

Quick aswell wouldnâ€™t you say?


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 10, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Quick aswell wouldnâ€™t you say?
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, process certainly seems to have been streamlined, been pretty impressed so far has to be said.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 10, 2019)

Hat-trick for Sterling. Brilliant from him, and completely dominant from City. They're winning the league again, made it look easy today.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 10, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Yeah, process certainly seems to have been streamlined, been pretty impressed so far has to be said.
		
Click to expand...

Thing is tho itâ€™s one game live atm

Would be interested to see them cope with the 3pm ones


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 10, 2019)

fundy said:



			Rhodri Tash, I can see it now lol
		
Click to expand...

It sounds welsh ðŸ˜


----------



## Fish (Aug 10, 2019)

fundy said:



			Rhodri Tash, I can see it now lol
		
Click to expand...

Sounds like a STD ðŸ˜œ


----------



## Imurg (Aug 10, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Thing is tho itâ€™s one game live atm

Would be interested to see them cope with the 3pm ones
		
Click to expand...

Just been trying find the criteria for use of VAR...
The phrase that keeps popping up is "clear error"
If the VAR team are reviewing situations and they see an error that is not clear ( to those on the pitch) then surely they can't overturn an onfield decision.
Now, I haven't seen the game this lunchtime but word is that there was an offside given by VAR that measured a matter of inches.
If that's the case then the onfield officials haven't made a "clear" error...an error - yes. But not a clear one.
I don't have a problem with VAR as such but if the definition of "clear error" morphs into any error no matter how miniscule then there's going to be a lot of decisions overturned.
You could also question whether any onfield officials are needed to make decisions if VAR is going to make them instead. Just have a ref on field to implement VAR decisions.....


----------



## fundy (Aug 10, 2019)

Imurg said:



			Just been trying find the criteria for use of VAR...
The phrase that keeps popping up is "clear error"
If the VAR team are reviewing situations and they see an error that is not clear ( to those on the pitch) then surely they can't overturn an onfield decision.
Now, I haven't seen the game this lunchtime but word is that there was an offside given by VAR that measured a matter of inches.
If that's the case then the onfield officials haven't made a "clear" error...an error - yes. But not a clear one.
I don't have a problem with VAR as such but if the definition of "clear error" morphs into any error no matter how miniscule then there's going to be a lot of decisions overturned.
You could also question whether any onfield officials are needed to make decisions if VAR is going to make them instead. Just have a ref on field to implement VAR decisions.....
		
Click to expand...

i think all goals are to be checked for offside arent they?

2 offsides couldve gone either way depending on at what point the ball was actually kicked (hard to be exact). 

if you showed someone who didnt watch football the 2 examples and said that one stood and one didnt theyd never watch the game again lol


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 10, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Hat-trick for Sterling. Brilliant from him, and completely dominant from City. *They're winning the league again, made it look easy today.*

Click to expand...

Blimey - all after just the one game 




fundy said:



			i think all goals are to be checked for offside arent they?

2 offsides couldve gone either way depending on at what point the ball was actually kicked (hard to be exact).

if you showed someone who didnt watch football the 2 examples and said that one stood and one didnt theyd never watch the game again lol
		
Click to expand...

Think the clear and obvious has gone out of the window - they pretty much have two refs now , one on the pitch and anything missed will be relayed through , and every offside will be looked at regardless of clear and obvious. For me itâ€™s a poor change in direction , think itâ€™s not long before celebrating stops until they watch a screen


----------



## fundy (Aug 10, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blimey - all after just the one game 



Think the clear and obvious has gone out of the window - they pretty much have two refs now , one on the pitch and anything missed will be relayed through , and every offside will be looked at regardless of clear and obvious. For me itâ€™s a poor change in direction , think itâ€™s not long before celebrating stops until they watch a screen
		
Click to expand...


at least it gave the West Ham fans something to cheer today ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£


----------



## Imurg (Aug 10, 2019)

fundy said:



			i think all goals are to be checked for offside arent they?

2 offsides couldve gone either way depending on at what point the ball was actually kicked (hard to be exact).

if you showed someone who didnt watch football the 2 examples and said that one stood and one didnt theyd never watch the game again lol
		
Click to expand...

According to the piece I've just read VAR can ONLY get involved if a clear error has been spotted.
It's that word "clear" again....
If they're going to review everything then just say "we're going to review everything" and then at least people will have an idea.


----------



## TheDiablo (Aug 10, 2019)

Imurg said:



			According to the piece I've just read VAR can ONLY get involved if a clear error has been spotted.
It's that word "clear" again....
If they're going to review everything then just say "we're going to review everything" and then at least people will have an idea.
		
Click to expand...

The clear and obvious mandate doesn't apply to offside. You're either offside, or your not.


----------



## Imurg (Aug 10, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			The clear and obvious mandate doesn't apply to offside. You're either offside, or your not.
		
Click to expand...

Can you reference that as all the info I can find doesn't say that.
Not disputing it, just want to understand.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 10, 2019)

Imurg said:



			Can you reference that as all the info I can find doesn't say that.
Not disputing it, just want to understand.

Click to expand...

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/eng...ective-decision-not-a-clear-and-obvious-error


----------



## Imurg (Aug 10, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



https://www.espn.co.uk/football/eng...ective-decision-not-a-clear-and-obvious-error



Click to expand...

Cheers Dan 
Clearer now
Although why hands and arms aren't included but toes are makes me wonder a bit more....


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 10, 2019)

Imurg said:



			Cheers Dan
Clearer now
Although why hands and arms aren't included but toes are makes me wonder a bit more....
		
Click to expand...

Because you can't score or defend with your hands and arms, but can with your toes.


----------



## Imurg (Aug 10, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Because you can't score or defend with your hands and arms, but can with your toes.
		
Click to expand...

Still attached to the body though...
What about hair..?


----------



## Norrin Radd (Aug 10, 2019)

Brighton one up at Watford .long may it continue SEAGULLS


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 10, 2019)

Not great news for Everton. Gomes off injured before half time. Looked lively as well before going off. Hopefully Gbamin can step up in the 2nd half.


----------



## chrisd (Aug 10, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Not great news for Everton. Gomes off injured before half time. Looked lively as well before going off. Hopefully Gbamin can step up in the 2nd half.
		
Click to expand...

Let's hope he can't ðŸ¤«


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 10, 2019)

Sterling 'trick?

Remember when Ibe was gonna be better than him ðŸ¤­ðŸ¤­


----------



## pendodave (Aug 10, 2019)

I've just got back from the west ham game.
VAR definitely makes the live experience worse. I don't think that anyone would have gone home complaining about the decisions as they were, and it just ruined the flow of the game.
Of course, football gave up caring about actual match-going supporters years ago, so not expecting it to change anytime soon.
For the record, I think 5-0 was a bit harsh, 3/4-1 would have been a better reflection. Which is an indictment in itself I suppose...


----------



## Norrin Radd (Aug 10, 2019)

SEAGULLS 3 -0 and a fantastic start for Brighton in the league .


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 10, 2019)

pendodave said:



			I've just got back from the west ham game.
VAR definitely makes the live experience worse. I don't think that anyone would have gone home complaining about the decisions as they were, and it just ruined the flow of the game.
Of course, football gave up caring about actual match-going supporters years ago, so not expecting it to change anytime soon.
For the record, I think 5-0 was a bit harsh, 3/4-1 would have been a better reflection. Which is an indictment in itself I suppose...
		
Click to expand...

It seemed pretty quick on the tv but Iâ€™m guessing in the stadium it just feels like forever?

Joe cole said on bt that the reaction from the crowd when the goal was overturned was interesting and that he could see it energising teams hearing that passion 

Almost worked for us with the double save from Ederson soon after but then it was just citeh being the best around


----------



## davemc1 (Aug 10, 2019)

Wonder whoâ€™s gonna be last on motd on the opening day of the season? ðŸ¤”


----------



## pendodave (Aug 10, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			It seemed pretty quick on the tv but Iâ€™m guessing in the stadium it just feels like forever?

Joe cole said on bt that the reaction from the crowd when the goal was overturned was interesting and that he could see it energising teams hearing that passion

Almost worked for us with the double save from Ederson soon after but then it was just citeh being the best around
		
Click to expand...

It is slow in the stadium, and of course they don't show anything at the time.
It was definitely more lively after the disallowed goal, but if anything that was more due to Snodgrass coming on and cheering us up...
What little hope we had ended in the save/miss followed by a swift counter by citeh. They are very hard to play against - relentless throughout and foul very quickly if they turn over the ball. Which, of course, the refs never punish. Very similar to spurs in that respect. I know it makes sense if you crunch the numbers, but it is extremely annoying to witness.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Aug 10, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Sterling 'trick?

Remember when Ibe was gonna be better than him ðŸ¤­ðŸ¤­
		
Click to expand...

Typical scousers that pal ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 10, 2019)

What the hell happened to Watford today!? Bloody hell.


----------



## Fish (Aug 10, 2019)

Oh yes Villa ðŸ˜œðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 10, 2019)

Absolutely woeful that. First long ball we face and we cack our pants. Rose was nowhere. Bloody awful goal.


----------



## Fish (Aug 10, 2019)

Villa look good on the break, defend well and soak up pressure, if Wesley didnâ€™t go to ground and moan too much theyâ€™d actually have 11 players out there. 

Kane didnâ€™t know he was offside and scuffed his shot, Rose is shite, works hard at times but no final ball or cross, Spurs overall body language just looks poor, somethings not right. 

Love it ðŸ˜œðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ’™


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 10, 2019)

Sissoko ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 10, 2019)

Fish said:



			Villa look good on the break, defend well and soak up pressure, if Wesley didnâ€™t go to ground and moan too much theyâ€™d actually have 11 players out there.

Kane didnâ€™t know he was offside and scuffed his shot, Rose is shite, works hard at times but no final ball or cross, Spurs overall body language just looks poor, somethings not right.

Love it ðŸ˜œðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ’™
		
Click to expand...

Boss new stadium though ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 10, 2019)

Spurs are clearly missing the creativity of Eriksen, and two glaring misses from Kane. That Ndombele plays a bit like what Momo Sissoko did for us - a lot of legs but doesnâ€™t seem in control of the ball 

Villa are doing well though - impressed with McGinn and Grealish looks quality - excellent with the ball


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 10, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			What the hell happened to Spurs today!? Bloody hell. 

Click to expand...

Sorted Ori ðŸ˜ðŸ‘


----------



## Fade and Die (Aug 10, 2019)

pendodave said:



			It is slow in the stadium, and of course they don't show anything at the time.
It was definitely more lively after the disallowed goal, but if anything that was more due to Snodgrass coming on and cheering us up...
What little hope we had ended in the save/miss followed by a swift counter by citeh. They are very hard to play against - relentless throughout and foul very quickly if they turn over the ball. Which, of course, the refs never punish. Very similar to spurs in that respect. I know it makes sense if you crunch the numbers, but it is extremely annoying to witness.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I thought we competed for the 1st 45 but seemed to run out of gas 2nd half. Re VAR, it was just as shite as I expected it to be. Slowing the game down, goals not properly celebrated and still getting stupid decisions. How can you be offside by an arm? ...Also linesmen not even bothering to make a decision and leaving it up to VAR is gonna do my nut it.ðŸ˜¡


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 10, 2019)

Sweet finish - what a difference Eriksen makes for them though , can see the immediate threat from him.


----------



## Jensen (Aug 10, 2019)

Crafted in Denmark finished in France 
COYS


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 10, 2019)

Nice finishing from Sterling today .
Looks like heâ€™s more clinical.


----------



## Fish (Aug 10, 2019)

Thats 2 great saves from Heaton. 

Why didnâ€™t Erickson start?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 10, 2019)

Why is that not a pen in the new rules then ? Itâ€™s clearly hit his hand on the replay ?


----------



## fundy (Aug 10, 2019)

Fish said:



			Thats 2 great saves from Heaton. 

Why didnâ€™t Erickson start?
		
Click to expand...

dont want him injured before they sell him ?


----------



## Fish (Aug 10, 2019)

fundy said:



			dont want him injured before they sell him ?
		
Click to expand...

When does the European transfer window close, and shouldnâ€™t it be brought into line with all national leagues.


----------



## Fish (Aug 10, 2019)

Only thing heâ€™s done all day, and theyâ€™ll hail him!


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 10, 2019)

Fish said:



			Only thing heâ€™s done all day, and theyâ€™ll hail him!
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s the point though isnâ€™t it. 

Has a poor game but shines when it matters.


----------



## SteveW86 (Aug 10, 2019)

Fish said:



			When does the European transfer window close, and shouldnâ€™t it be brought into line with all national leagues.
		
Click to expand...

They were all in line until we changed ours I think


----------



## Fish (Aug 10, 2019)

Well if they study this match and see the difference in energy and creativity that came about once Erickson cane on, theyâ€™re mad to sell him.


----------



## Jensen (Aug 10, 2019)

Eriksen is so important for us, I think he's the modern day Glenn Hoddle. The guy has so much guile and creativity, it'll be frightening if he goes


----------



## Jensen (Aug 10, 2019)

Fish said:



			Well if they study this match and see the difference in energy and creativity that came about once Erickson cane on, theyâ€™re mad to sell him.
		
Click to expand...

Can't agree more, the problem is the players have all the power these days. If he wants to go and only has 1 year left he's got a revolver to our heads


----------



## fundy (Aug 10, 2019)

Fish said:



			When does the European transfer window close, and shouldnâ€™t it be brought into line with all national leagues.
		
Click to expand...

a few weeks yet, unlike Spurs and Ericsson hoping we might lose one before it closes


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 10, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Sorted Ori ðŸ˜ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

They won, m8.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 10, 2019)

Feel a little bit bad for Villa there. Not that much though. Mings was an absolute unit at the back, fair play to him. Kane has two in August already, lovely stuff. Nice to have a comfortable win in your first game. 

PS. I've never seen so many different ways of spelling Eriksen, lads.


----------



## fundy (Aug 10, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Feel a little bit bad for Villa there. Not that much though. Mings was an absolute unit at the back, fair play to him. Kane has two in August already, lovely stuff. Nice to have a comfortable win in your first game. 

PS. I've never seen so many different ways of spelling Eriksen, lads. 

Click to expand...

surely its Erics Son without the space


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 10, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Eriksen is so important for us, I think he's the modern day Glenn Hoddle. The guy has so much guile and creativity, it'll be frightening if he goes
		
Click to expand...

Surely itâ€™s when ? Are they going to risk losing him on a free next year ? Such a different team when he came on



Orikoru said:



			Feel a little bit bad for Villa there. Not that much though. *Mings was an absolute unit at the back, fair play to him. *Kane has two in August already, lovely stuff. Nice to have a comfortable win in your first game. 

PS. I've never seen so many different ways of spelling Eriksen, lads. 

Click to expand...


Can see why they spent Â£20mil on him after all ðŸ‘ðŸ˜‰


----------



## davemc1 (Aug 10, 2019)

This new goal kick rule 

Say a teams 1 up not long to go. Goalie takes the goal kick but the ball stops inside the area. Defenders ignore it, attacking team canâ€™t touch it, (neither can the keeper for that matter)

What happens?


----------



## anotherdouble (Aug 10, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			This new goal kick rule

Say a teams 1 up not long to go. Goalie takes the goal kick but the ball stops inside the area. Defenders ignore it, attacking team canâ€™t touch it, (neither can the keeper for that matter)

What happens?
		
Click to expand...

So are you saying Dave the ball is not back in play when the keeper kicks it?


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 10, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			This new goal kick rule

Say a teams 1 up not long to go. Goalie takes the goal kick but the ball stops inside the area. Defenders ignore it, attacking team canâ€™t touch it, (neither can the keeper for that matter)

What happens?
		
Click to expand...

Same as whatever happened before? If nobody touches it why would it matter if the defenders are in or out of the box?


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 10, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			This new goal kick rule

Say a teams 1 up not long to go. Goalie takes the goal kick but the ball stops inside the area. Defenders ignore it, attacking team canâ€™t touch it, (neither can the keeper for that matter)

What happens?
		
Click to expand...

The opposition can touch the ball the moment itâ€™s kicked. They just canâ€™t start off in the box when the keeper takes it.


----------



## davemc1 (Aug 10, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			The opposition can touch the ball the moment itâ€™s kicked. They just canâ€™t start off in the box when the keeper takes it.
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ‘ðŸ» This must of changed, attacking players could never make first contact inside the box


----------



## Fish (Aug 10, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Feel a little bit bad for Villa there. Not that much though. Mings was an absolute unit at the back, fair play to him. Kane has two in August already, lovely stuff. Nice to have a comfortable win in your first game. 

PS. I've never seen so many different ways of spelling Eriksen, lads. 

Click to expand...

Yes itâ€™s 3 points, but I think thereâ€™s more concern than that result represents imo.


----------



## TheDiablo (Aug 10, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Wonder whoâ€™s gonna be last on motd on the opening day of the season? ðŸ¤”
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool by the look of it ðŸ˜‰


----------



## fundy (Aug 10, 2019)

Fish said:



			Yes itâ€™s 3 points, but I think thereâ€™s more concern than that result represents imo.
		
Click to expand...


your pre season still not ended has it, expect we get some of it tomorrow too haha


----------



## Jensen (Aug 10, 2019)

Let's see if Fat boy Frank is up to it


----------



## Fish (Aug 10, 2019)

fundy said:



			your pre season still not ended has it, expect we get some of it tomorrow too haha
		
Click to expand...

Bit more of a sterner test tomorrow, away to yernited against playing at home against a newly promoted championship side, if Erikson does go Iâ€™d be pretty concerned as Villa were coming away with something until he came on. 

Weâ€™ve played well in our pre season games, lots of positives, lots of goals, unfortunately we leaked quite a few also, even though we won, but weâ€™ve offloaded that weak link now to Arsenal, so Iâ€™m hoping for a steady start whilst some players come back from injury whoâ€™ll then add to a new exiting mix of young, hungry and experienced players. 

With the Sarri shackles off, some players have really found a new lease of life, Barkley and Jorginho have both had superb pre season games, I canâ€™t wait to see our initial line up, especially knowing we have 3-4 more quality players to come back into the frame. 

Iâ€™d say thereâ€™s more pressure on yernited than us as most have written us off, so bring it on......


----------



## anotherdouble (Aug 10, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Let's see if Fat boy Frank is up to it
		
Click to expand...

Who does he play for as I havenâ€™t heard of him. I have heard of fat pat?


----------



## fundy (Aug 10, 2019)

Fish said:



			Bit more of a sterner test tomorrow, away to yernited against playing at home against a newly promoted championship side, if Erikson does go Iâ€™d be pretty concerned as Villa were coming away with something until he came on. 

Weâ€™ve played well in our pre season games, lots of positives, lots of goals, unfortunately we leaked quite a few also, even though we won, but weâ€™ve offloaded that weak link now to Arsenal, so Iâ€™m hoping for a steady start whilst some players come back from injury whoâ€™ll then add to a new exiting mix of young, hungry and experienced players. 

With the Sarri shackles off, some players have really found a new lease of life, Barkley and Jorginho have both had superb pre season games, I canâ€™t wait to see our initial line up, especially knowing we have 3-4 more quality players to come back into the frame. 

Iâ€™d say thereâ€™s more pressure on yernited than us as most have written us off, so bring it on......
		
Click to expand...


actually worried for us tomorrow, likely to be missing: lacazette, pepe, holding, bellerin, tierney, ozil, kolasinac, mavropanos, smith rowe. how do you have that many injuries first game of the season (and it not include mustafi or xhaka lol)


----------



## Fish (Aug 10, 2019)

fundy said:



			actually worried for us tomorrow, likely to be missing: lacazette, pepe, holding, bellerin, tierney, ozil, kolasinac, mavropanos, smith rowe. how do you have that many injuries first game of the season (and it not include mustafi or xhaka lol)
		
Click to expand...

Are they in the treatment room or being rested/tired and taking Newcastle too lightly. 

Andy Carrol to come on and score the winner in injury time with a bullet header and become a north east hero again ðŸ˜œ


----------



## fundy (Aug 10, 2019)

Fish said:



			Are they in the treatment room or being rested/tired and taking Newcastle too lightly. 

Andy Carrol to come on and score the winner in injury time with a bullet header and become a north east hero again ðŸ˜œ
		
Click to expand...

all injured bar Ozil/Kolasinac who arent available due to security concerns


----------



## Fish (Aug 10, 2019)

fundy said:



			all injured bar Ozil/Kolasinac who arent available due to security concerns 

Click to expand...

I saw that on the news, and quite simply I donâ€™t get it?  Ok it was an unpleasant situation they found themselves in, but the incident is over, what security risk could be associated with a potential car jacking/robbery to that of playing football. Do they (police) have evidence of some nature that both their lives are in danger still? Are they being stalked or threatened still?


----------



## fundy (Aug 10, 2019)

Fish said:



			I saw that on the news, and quite simply I donâ€™t get it?  Ok it was an unpleasant situation they found themselves in, but the incident is over, what security risk could be associated with a potential car jacking/robbery to that of playing football. Do they (police) have evidence of some nature that both their lives are in danger still? Are they being stalked or threatened still?
		
Click to expand...


Have to assume theyve had follow up threats for them to be pulled out of playing this weekend, odd, really really odd


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 10, 2019)

fundy said:



			Have to assume theyve had follow up threats for them to be pulled out of playing this weekend, odd, really really odd
		
Click to expand...

Could be to the family in London not the players themselves.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 10, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			They won, m8.
		
Click to expand...

Am sure with an hour to go that would of been more than possible. Google football banter then try it. Its fun. Google fun as well. Its er fun


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 10, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Am sure with an hour to go that would of been more than possible. Google football banter then try it. Its fun. Google fun as well. Its er fun
		
Click to expand...

You had fun by trying to goad someone about a football result in a game that wasnâ€™t close to being over and that you got drastically wrong?

Oh well. I guess that the simple things amuse you.

â€œGoogle football banterâ€ - nah, Iâ€™m good, thanks.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 10, 2019)

You use the word â€œ Goadâ€ so well ðŸ‘
It is a regular feature of most of your posts.


----------



## Fish (Aug 11, 2019)

fundy said:



			Have to assume theyve had follow up threats for them to be pulled out of playing this weekend, odd, really really odd
		
Click to expand...

2 arrested today and both named, charged with public order (4a) offence, which I doubt will even get them to prison. 

Obviously knew where they lived if indeed it was a targeted attack and not random, but no other associated charges, which I find strange.  Iâ€™d have thought [attempted] aggravated robbery could have been used, possibly had a chance of getting them to crown court then, but as it stands, weâ€™re only talking about harassment and distress, which theyâ€™ll walk from as dealt with by mags only, no mention or charge of having a weapon either. 

Iâ€™m wondering if this was more of a personal attack?


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 11, 2019)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49309286

Good job there wasn't a game on.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 11, 2019)

Fish said:



			2 arrested today and both named, charged with public order (4a) offence, which I doubt will even get them to prison.

Obviously knew where they lived if indeed it was a targeted attack and not random, but no other associated charges, which I find strange.  Iâ€™d have thought [attempted] aggravated robbery could have been used, possibly had a chance of getting them to crown court then, but as it stands, weâ€™re only talking about harassment and distress, which theyâ€™ll walk from as dealt with by mags only, no mention or charge of having a weapon either.

Iâ€™m wondering if this was more of a personal attack?
		
Click to expand...

Sounds like two separate incidents!
As you say the charges seem very strange.
But seen an article in the paper yesterday saying itâ€™s no good getting 20,000 extra police officers if the CPS and justice system dosnt deal with them.
One guy had 29 burglary convictions and never been in jail.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 11, 2019)

What the hell is this Arsenal team?? Wow. Newcastle have a chance here. Well, maybe if they weren't being managed by Steve Bruce.


----------



## Cherry13 (Aug 11, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			What the hell is this Arsenal team?? Wow. Newcastle have a chance here. Well, maybe if they weren't being managed by Steve Bruce. 

Click to expand...

Well that was rubbish!
Our right hand side is non existent with Hayden and manquillo, be interesting to see if Bruce makes any positive changes, because like you say arsenal are for the taking here.


----------



## fundy (Aug 11, 2019)

Laca, Pepe and Torreira for Mhiki, Guendozi and Willock plse


----------



## Jensen (Aug 11, 2019)

Well.....let's see Steve Bruce make a difference here


----------



## Cherry13 (Aug 11, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Well.....let's see Steve Bruce make a difference here
		
Click to expand...

Well the current response seems to be having one central midfielder on the pitch


----------



## fundy (Aug 11, 2019)

Cherry13 said:



			Well the current response seems to be having one central midfielder on the pitch
		
Click to expand...

and Xhaka and Guendoozi still look overrun!


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 11, 2019)

Unitedâ€™s midfield. :â€™(


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 11, 2019)

Cherry13 said:



			Well the current response seems to be having one central midfielder on the pitch
		
Click to expand...

Did they say if Shelvey or Longstaff were injured?


----------



## fundy (Aug 11, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Did they say if Shelvey or Longstaff were injured?
		
Click to expand...

they said Shelvey tactical, not so sure re Longstaff but didnt look injured


----------



## Jensen (Aug 11, 2019)

Well Fundy and Sawtooth, I think you can start singing that old 1-0 song


----------



## fundy (Aug 11, 2019)

well its 3 points but that was hard work against a pretty poor Toon side! lets hope we look better with Luiz and Torreira in the spine because we need to, some encouraging signs from the youngsters and the new signings, less so from the likes of Mhiki and Xhaka

gonna take time to get the new signings fully integrated and a few injuries back but a few tell tale worries still there too


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 11, 2019)

Footie matched the weather... 

Equalling last season's woeful away clean sheets on day one being a plus... Sort of...


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 11, 2019)

O


Jensen said:



			Well Fundy and Sawtooth, I think you can start singing that old 1-0 song
		
Click to expand...

Nice to see Wengers signings making and scoring the winning goalðŸ‘

Like what Emery is doing so far and that was a smart move not starting with any of the new signings. Keeps the unity strong in the squad.


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 11, 2019)

fundy said:



			well its 3 points but that was hard work against a pretty poor Toon side! lets hope we look better with Luiz and Torreira in the spine because we need to, some encouraging signs from the youngsters and the new signings, less so from the likes of Mhiki and Xhaka

gonna take time to get the new signings fully integrated and a few injuries back but a few tell tale worries still there too
		
Click to expand...

Believe we are going to have to learn to live with "tell tale worries" for some while yet...


----------



## Slime (Aug 11, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Unitedâ€™s midfield. :â€™(
		
Click to expand...

It scared me all through the transfer window ................................... and nothing was done!
I'm sure McTominay and Pereira will prove to be excellent midfielders, over time, I just think that now is maybe too soon!
It's going to be a long season for United unless they spend well in January.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 11, 2019)

Had that been on yesterday it might have beaten Palace v Everton to be last on motd ðŸ¤£.

Newcastle lost all shape following the substitutions. They may have needed some spark but taking those two players off distorted the team. A very flat first home performance of the season.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 11, 2019)

Curious that Mount starts ahead of Pulisic for Chelsea. Looking forward to seeing how Barkley goes today, picked him in my FPL team and backing him to have a top season for Chelsea, it's about time he starts to fulfil his massive potential.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 11, 2019)

I was just typing how slick Chelsea were looking, how poor utd were, then Kurt has a mare.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 11, 2019)

Two mistakes early from Zouma. 1 gifted Martial a shot at goal and then the penalty. Not a great start for him back in a Chelsea shirt.


----------



## user2010 (Aug 11, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			If Kelly or Scrotum had wrote that I would of *ignored* that. But cmon LB. it's like me saying Liverpool will be Called Liverpool Rednecks FC soccer club playing 50% of ther games in Fenway Park Boston.
		
Click to expand...


Much like i do with most of your inane posts because your ramblings don't make sense half the time.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 11, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Two mistakes early from Zouma. 1 gifted Martial a shot at goal and then the penalty. Not a great start for him back in a Chelsea shirt.
		
Click to expand...

He is still traumatised at not being in an Everton shirt, he never made mistakes like that last year. It's a blue shirt, but not the right blue ðŸ˜.


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 11, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Two mistakes early from Zouma. 1 gifted Martial a shot at goal and then the penalty. Not a great start for him back in a Chelsea shirt.
		
Click to expand...

If only they still had Luiz?

Loving this new look Chelsea side.ðŸ˜†


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 11, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He is still traumatised at not being in an Everton shirt, he never made mistakes like that last year. It's a blue shirt, but not the right blue ðŸ˜.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s self sabotage. Driving his own price down to secure a move to Everton 

Chelsea really unlucky to still be behind. Hit the woodwork twice + a good save from DDG off Barkley. Good game this!


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 11, 2019)

For all The talk about the talent of Rashford and Martial which I agree with, the difference between them and the forwards of city and Liverpool is so clear to see. So many times they got in the box and then just had no clue. No little passes. Just stopping in the ball and turning away from goal.


----------



## Slime (Aug 11, 2019)

United maybe a bit fortunate to go in one up.
Wan-Bissaka looking like a great piece of business.
Nothing for City, Spurs or L'pool to worry about ....................................... and that's a worry!


----------



## Fish (Aug 11, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Loving this new look Chelsea side.ðŸ˜†
		
Click to expand...

And me ðŸ‘

Iâ€™m very happy with this performance so far, the only difference is a silly error by Zouma. 

Only pressure from United has come from us giving the ball away cheaply, whereas we have created and built good chances and hit the woodwork twice and Barkley was unlucky. 

We can build on this and only get better, especially with key players to still come back from injury. 

Be interesting to see what changes happen and when. 

Weâ€™d be 4-up if this was against that rubbish who played against the toon today, you might have got 3 points, but Iâ€™d be very concerned with that performance, but weâ€™re the better team currently imo and only 1-nil down.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2019)

Well going by the Arsenal game and this one so far - these three teams are battling for that last top 4 spot. Chelsea should be ahead and look the brighter team out of the three so far , Arsenal I suspect will look better with a good number of their players to come in but UTD ? Thatâ€™s their main team - Look disjointed all over the pitch , no leader , Pogba in someoneâ€™s pocket , Rashford and Martial headless chickens , Chelsea have carved them open as few times and De Gea and the woodwork have saved them so far.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 11, 2019)

Hose A's stock is rapidly falling, a full hour "ego massaging" episode earlier on in the week and now he's analysing the game


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 11, 2019)

Been impressed with Tammy Abraham leading the line for Chelsea. Good movement, strong hold up play and was so close to bagging a goal. Think heâ€™s going to be handy for them this season.


----------



## fundy (Aug 11, 2019)

Fish said:



			And me ðŸ‘

Iâ€™m very happy with this performance so far, the only difference is a silly error by Zouma. 

Only pressure from United has come from us giving the ball away cheaply, whereas we have created and built good chances and hit the woodwork twice and Barkley was unlucky. 

We can build on this and only get better, especially with key players to still come back from injury. 

Be interesting to see what changes happen and when. 

Weâ€™d be 4-up if this was against that rubbish who played against the toon today, you might have got 3 points, but Iâ€™d be very concerned with that performance, but weâ€™re the better team currently imo and only 1-nil down.
		
Click to expand...


lol Fish still thinks its pre season 

so you judge us as if we are at full strength but then point out youve key players to come back in. you sound more like a spurs fan every week mate


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 11, 2019)

Scrotie McBoogerballs said:



			Much like i do with most of your inane posts because your ramblings don't make sense half the time.

Click to expand...

Glad you understood that one ðŸ‘


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 11, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			For all The talk about the talent of Rashford and Martial which I agree with, the difference between them and the forwards of city and Liverpool is so clear to see. So many times they got in the box and then just had no clue. No little passes. Just stopping in the ball and turning away from goal.
		
Click to expand...

Thought MOTD analysis by Shearer was very good re the Spurs front three. First half to narrow and to close. Second half they were as good as City and Liverpools front three.


----------



## Slime (Aug 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well going by the Arsenal game and this one so far - these three teams are battling for that last top 4 spot. Chelsea should be ahead and look the brighter team out of the three so far , Arsenal I suspect will look better with a good number of their players to come in but UTD ? Thatâ€™s their main team - Look disjointed all over the pitch , no leader , Pogba in someoneâ€™s pocket , Rashford and Martial headless chickens , Chelsea have carved them open as few times and De Gea and the woodwork have saved them so far.
		
Click to expand...

What game are you watching?
If it's the same one as me, you'd get a better picture if you took your Liverpool goggles off.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 11, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Thought MOTD analysis by Shearer was very good re the Spurs front three. First half to narrow and to close. Second half they were as good as City and Liverpools front three.
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™m not sure they were that good. But they certainly had more urgency after Eriksen came on. 

Re todayâ€™s game. Both Chelsea and UTD are facing the hardest opposition that any of the top 6 have faced. Only really West Ham of the opposition that youâ€™d say may well finish above top half and end of the year. 

I think If De Gea performs like his usual self then UtD have more than enough for top 4.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 11, 2019)

Slime said:



			What game are you watching?
If it's the same one as me, you'd get a better picture if you took your Liverpool goggles off. 

Click to expand...

Did Kepa make a save first half?

It was a clear pen, but ya didnâ€™t fashion any other chances. Lots of promise for both teams but imo lacking the real quality of the top 2.


----------



## ger147 (Aug 11, 2019)

Game over...


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 11, 2019)

That was well taken. 

 The sort of counter attack that youâ€™d expect from that line up.


----------



## Slime (Aug 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			but UTD ? Thatâ€™s their main team - Look disjointed all over the pitch , no leader , Pogba in someoneâ€™s pocket , Rashford and Martial headless chickens , Chelsea have carved them open as few times and De Gea and the woodwork have saved them so far.
		
Click to expand...

United ........................... so shite that they're 2-0 up against a top six team.  

Oooops ............................ 3-0!   Who played that through ball?


----------



## fundy (Aug 11, 2019)

I wonder if Fish is still happy and enjoying this ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£

pre seasons over


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 11, 2019)

Turn the Tv of Fish!

Your defence looks like it needs Luiz.....

What a ball from the overacted Pogba.....


----------



## ger147 (Aug 11, 2019)

2 decent finishes there, maybe more teams should play headless chickens up front...


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 11, 2019)

Slime said:



			United ........................... so shite that they're 2-0 up against a top six team.  

Oooops ............................ 3-0!
		
Click to expand...

Yeah but Fish likes what he is seeingðŸ˜Š

More holes in that Chelsea defence than a second hand dartboard.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2019)

Slime said:



			United ........................... so shite that they're 2-0 up against a top six team.  

Oooops ............................ 3-0!
		
Click to expand...

I donâ€™t recall calling them â€œshiteâ€ and that was an assessment at half time with Utd bar the penalty not threatening Chelsea much - as opposed to Chelsea hitting the post , the bar and De Gea making three key saves. 

A couple of quick counter attack goals doesnâ€™t mean my post was wrong, instead of just pointing fingers and saying â€œyouâ€™re wrongâ€ and stop wearing Liverpool goggles how about actually counter it with a reasoned debate - but I suspect you will struggle with that


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 11, 2019)

Beautiful ball over the top from Pogba. Azpi beaten twice in two minutes and sublime take and finish from Rashford. United been excellent in the 2nd half.


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 11, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Turn the Tv of Fish!

Your defence looks like it needs Luiz.....
....
		
Click to expand...

If not Luiz then Cahill instead....oh wait they got rid of him too. ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Slime (Aug 11, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



*What a ball from the overacted Pogba*.....
		
Click to expand...

It couldn't have been Pogba, apparently he's in a Chelsea player's pocket!


----------



## Old Skier (Aug 11, 2019)

Both sides have been playing passing suicide, could have gone either way for a while.


----------



## Slime (Aug 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I donâ€™t recall calling them â€œshiteâ€ and that was an assessment at half time with Utd bar the penalty not threatening Chelsea much - as opposed to Chelsea hitting the post , the bar and De Gea making three key saves.

A couple of quick counter attack goals doesnâ€™t mean my post was wrong, instead of just pointing fingers and saying â€œyouâ€™re wrongâ€ and stop wearing Liverpool goggles *how about actually counter it with a reasoned debate - but I suspect you will struggle with that*

Click to expand...

Okay.
You didn't call them shite, but you sure as hell insinuated it.
You said "Pogba in someoneâ€™s pocket". Hell of a ball from someone's pocket! 
You said "Rashford and Martial headless chickens". Two bloody good finishes from headless chickens.
You said "Look disjointed all over the pitch". Not at all, weak in midfield for sure, but disjointed, I don't think so.

Would you call that reasoned debate .......................... or am I still struggling?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2019)

Slime said:



			Okay.
You didn't call them shite, but you sure as hell insinuated it.
You said "Pogba in someoneâ€™s pocket". Hell of a ball from someone's pocket!
You said "Rashford and Martial headless chickens". Two bloody good finishes from headless chickens.
You said "Look disjointed all over the pitch". Not at all, weak in midfield for sure, but disjointed, I don't think so.

Would you call that reasoned debate .......................... or am I still struggling?
		
Click to expand...

AT HALF TIME - the points made were about the first half , you are counter with stuff that happened â€œAFTERâ€ i posted what I did 

So try and find something to counter the points made in the first half - Pogba didnâ€™t play that ball through in the first half - he was non existent, the two forwards were all over the place in the first half - so try again


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 11, 2019)

Wow. 

More compulsive from Pogba. Dream for James. Thought his stumble could cost him. But what a quick break.


----------



## ger147 (Aug 11, 2019)

That pocket Pogba is in is some size, stretches the whole length of the pitch...


----------



## Slime (Aug 11, 2019)

ger147 said:



			That pocket Pogba is in is some size, stretches the whole length of the pitch...
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 11, 2019)

Bloody good from Pogba that, superb play. Nice to see James get a debut goal too, obviously well liked in the dressing room, got quite a congrats from his team mates. United looking scary on the counter in this 2nd half.


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 11, 2019)

There'll be no point celebrating a goal until the other team has kicked off again. No way should our goal have been scrubbed off today.


----------



## Slime (Aug 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			AT HALF TIME - the points made were about the first half , you are counter with stuff that happened â€œAFTERâ€ i posted what I did

So try and find something to counter the points made in the first half - Pogba didnâ€™t play that ball through in the first half - he was non existent, the two forwards were all over the place in the first half - so try again
		
Click to expand...

I prefer not to judge a team over just half a game, it can come back to haunt one.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 11, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			There'll be no point celebrating a goal until the other team has kicked off again. No way should our goal have been scrubbed off today.
		
Click to expand...

???

What happened. Not seen any mention of it.


----------



## SteveW86 (Aug 11, 2019)

Glad to see everyone has got more rational with their football debates over the summer.

Letâ€™s be honest, everything Phil said about Utd was relevant to the first half. Second half had been a totally different story though. Theyâ€™ve countered really well and I can see thatâ€™s how they will get their goals against the bigger teams this year. They havenâ€™t looked comfortable retaining possession, but they have been clinical in their counter attacks.


----------



## TheDiablo (Aug 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well going by the Arsenal game and this one so far - these three teams are battling for that last top 4 spot. Chelsea should be ahead and look the brighter team out of the three so far , Arsenal I suspect will look better with a good number of their players to come in but UTD ? Thatâ€™s their main team - Look disjointed all over the pitch , no leader , Pogba in someoneâ€™s pocket , Rashford and Martial headless chickens , Chelsea have carved them open as few times and De Gea and the woodwork have saved them so far.
		
Click to expand...

Come on Phil, yesterday you're having a pop at @Dan2501 for laying it on thick about City too early and next day you're judging 2 teams seasons on 45 minutes!!! I think the word is 'blimey' ðŸ˜‰

Onto the game... 

Maguire has looked very very good, the leader theyve missed. McTom could also grow into that role too if he continues to improve. AWB very impressive too today. 

Quick in transition, yes lots of mistakes and too open at times, but lots of attacking football, Pogba controlling tempo in the 2nd half. 

Definitely still questions marks on a couple of players, eg Lingard and Pereira and they lack depth so a few weak spots but I think United fans will be encouraged at the start of the season.


----------



## Jensen (Aug 11, 2019)

Fat Frank's first signing must be John Terry from Villa as a defensive coach ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 11, 2019)

Has to be said, Slabhead has been excellent today. Been so assured and solid at the back, think him and Lindelof could form a handy CB partnership.


----------



## anotherdouble (Aug 11, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Fat Frank's first signing must be John Terry from Villa as a defensive coach ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

I saw him briefly on the tv and I didnâ€™t think he had put any weight on since he stopped playing


----------



## Slime (Aug 11, 2019)

Oooh, 2nd in the league.




I know it doesn't count until we're 10 games in and we all also know it ain't gonna last, so let me have this little bit of joy.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 11, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Unitedâ€™s midfield. :â€™(
		
Click to expand...

They won, m8 ðŸ‘


----------



## ger147 (Aug 11, 2019)

Slime said:



			Oooh, 2nd in the league.




I know it doesn't count until we're 10 games in and we all also know it ain't gonna last, so let me have this little bit of joy.  

Click to expand...

Liverpool plummet to 3rd. Is Klopp taking Liverpool backwards??? Will he get the vote of confidence if he doesn't get them out of this slump ASAP???

Exciting times...


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 11, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			They won, m8 ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Never in doubt.


----------



## chrisd (Aug 11, 2019)

Finish the league today! I'd be happy with 10th ðŸ‘


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 11, 2019)

As much as it wasn't a classic. If Pogba can play like that all season, Utd could shock one or two. Defensively they looked a lot better with wan Bissaka and Maguire. The pace up front will worry teams. It's early doors but I think most Utd fans would take that ðŸ˜
Re Chelsea. It's easy to say it wasn't a 4 niller, but Utd took there chances when they had to, Chelsea didn't. 
However after one game even as a City fan, it's a bit early to get excited.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 11, 2019)

ger147 said:



			Liverpool plummet to 3rd. Is Klopp taking Liverpool backwards??? Will he get the vote of confidence if he doesn't get them out of this slump ASAP???

Exciting times...
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Slime (Aug 11, 2019)

.......................... and Maguire was wearing black football boots, top man.


----------



## GG26 (Aug 11, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			There'll be no point celebrating a goal until the other team has kicked off again. No way should our goal have been scrubbed off today.
		
Click to expand...

Was sat behind the goal and saw nothing wrong with it in real time, but grateful for VAR


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 11, 2019)

GG26 said:



			Was sat behind the goal and saw nothing wrong with it in real time, but grateful for VAR
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I imagine you are, as I would be if it was the other way around. I think a point at yours will be a viewed as a good result as the weeks progress.


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 11, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			???

What happened. Not seen any mention of it.
		
Click to expand...

It's only Wolves, you wouldn't have.

We had a goal chalked off for handball.


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 11, 2019)

Slime said:



			.......................... and Maguire was wearing black football boots, top man.
		
Click to expand...

I played my second ever game today. Right back. Black boots.


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 11, 2019)

Chelsea and Liverpool now travel to Turkey to compete in the Supercup,  what a waste of time honestly.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 11, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			What you've described isn't too dissimilar to what happened to American Football.
		
Click to expand...

Correct, teams moving away from an area that they had been in for 50+ years, I think sometimes even to the other coast.

MK dons anyone?


----------



## JamesR (Aug 11, 2019)

Slime said:



			United ........................... so shite that they're 2-0 up against a top six team...
		
Click to expand...

They may have been top 6 at some point this season but it was only alphabetical.
Different season, different management & different players.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Aug 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I donâ€™t recall calling them â€œshiteâ€ and that was an assessment at half time with Utd bar the penalty not threatening Chelsea much - as opposed to Chelsea hitting the post , the bar and De Gea making three key saves.
		
Click to expand...

So at half time of their first game you're confident enough to say that Man U and Chelsea are fighting for the last place in the top 4 with Arsenal. It was only a couple of pages ago that you were critcising someone for saying Man City would win the league after just one full game. Seems to be a bit of double standards there that you are the oracle after 45 minutes but someone else is totally wrong after 90 minutes.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			So at half time of their first game you're confident enough to say that Man U and Chelsea are fighting for the last place in the top 4 with Arsenal. It was only a couple of pages ago that you were critcising someone for saying Man City would win the league after just one full game. Seems to be a bit of double standards there that you are the oracle after 45 minutes but someone else is totally wrong after 90 minutes.
		
Click to expand...

Yes i am confident enough to say that they will be figitnng for the last spot in the Top 4 - thought that before the game as well and i expect if you look through the predictions most thought the same as well 

Last yeat they were all about 20 plus points behind - nothing seems to have changed where as Liverpool were 1 point behind last season won comfortably just as City did hence why my comment was "blimey after one game" when someone declared City the winners.


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes i am confident enough to say that they will be figitnng for the last spot in the Top 4 - thought that before the game as well and i expect if you look through the predictions most thought the same as well

Last yeat they were all about 20 plus points behind - nothing seems to have changed where as Liverpool were 1 point behind last season won comfortably just as City did hence why my comment was "blimey after one game" when someone declared City the winners.
		
Click to expand...

Letâ€™s be honest now - Norwich gave you as much trouble over 90 minutes as Chelsea gave us but both teams missed good chances. Weâ€™ve got, on paper, a weaker team. 

Who do you really think had a better first weekend?

And Iâ€™m saying this as someone who genuinely thinks weâ€™re crap and Liverpool can rival City again this year. 

Get your blinkers off. You were absolutely mince at the back on Friday and thatâ€™s a supposedly settled back line.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Chelsea and Liverpool now travel to Turkey to compete in the Supercup,  what a waste of time honestly.
		
Click to expand...

It will be a good night out competing for a little trophy ðŸ‘


----------



## JamesR (Aug 11, 2019)

Burnley will win the league this year, no doubt about it!

FACT!!! (I believe capitals make it official)


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 11, 2019)

3 United players did well for me in my fantasy team.

God, that hurt.


----------



## Slime (Aug 11, 2019)

Without getting too excited, and I know it's only after one game, but Maguire is looking like a good investment and Â£80M suddenly doesn't look quite as silly as many thought.
I also thought AWB had a great game on his debut.
I was pleased for Danny James, I'm sure I saw him wiping away a tear shortly after he scored.
I think that goal will be for his dad.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 11, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			3 United players did well for me in my fantasy team.

God, that hurt.

Click to expand...

You'll never be able to get yourself properly clean. That's with you forever now ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜±.


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It will be a good night out competing for a little trophy ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Yep the community shield of Europe.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 11, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Yep the community shield of Europe.
		
Click to expand...

Its not the taking part, its the qualifying for it that counts.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Aug 11, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Yep the community shield of Europe.
		
Click to expand...

It is a complete waste of time.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Aug 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It will be a good night out competing for a little trophy ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

You make it sound like a night at the bingo Phil ðŸ¤£


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 11, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Its not the taking part, its the qualifying for it that counts.

Click to expand...

I agree with that.


----------



## fundy (Aug 11, 2019)

Is it too early for a search party?


----------



## Fish (Aug 11, 2019)

fundy said:



			Is it too early for a search party?
		
Click to expand...

I've never hid from anything, other than shadows at night and being exposed in the light......


----------



## fundy (Aug 11, 2019)

Fish said:



			I've never hid from anything, other than shadows at night and being exposed in the light......
		
Click to expand...

haha you and the rest of us mate

no doubt it wont be long till the shoes on the other foot


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 11, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			It's only Wolves, you wouldn't have.

We had a goal chalked off for handball.
		
Click to expand...

Would you have been happy if var checked it and gave it against you?

I'll keep an eye out on motd for it.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Aug 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes i am confident enough to say that they will be figitnng for the last spot in the Top 4 - thought that before the game as well and i expect if you look through the predictions most thought the same as well 

Last yeat they were all about 20 plus points behind - nothing seems to have changed where as Liverpool were 1 point behind last season won comfortably just as City did hence why my comment was "blimey after one game" when someone declared City the winners.
		
Click to expand...

Well that's ok then. If you're confident in your prediction then feel free to criticise someone else who might be confident in their own prediction. As I said, double standards and you even admit that your prediction was before a ball had been kicked rather than "blimey" after 90 minutes.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Would you have been happy if var checked it and gave it against you?

I'll keep an eye out on motd for it.
		
Click to expand...

The issue isnâ€™t  with VAR for the goal - itâ€™s the new handball rule , it was clearly accidental and last year with VaR the goal would have stood but because of the new rule it has to be ruled out

But what I have found a bit confusing is I have seen a few handballs in the box over the weekend and by the new law it should be a penalty - but VAR checked and no penalty?!


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The issue is with VAR for the goal - itâ€™s the new handball rule , it was clearly accidental and last year with VaR the goal would have stood but because of the new rule it has to be ruled out 

But what I have found a bit confusing is I have seen a few handballs in the box over the weekend and by the new law it should be a penalty - but VAR checked and no penalty?!
		
Click to expand...

Ah OK. So it was a penalty then?

I think the women's world cup was a bit too ott with the pens for handball and they're trying to find the right balance. 

I know they've taken intent out of it now. So would have thought it was easier to give them than not tbh.


----------



## pokerjoke (Aug 11, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			3 United players did well for me in my fantasy team.

God, that hurt.

Click to expand...

I bet picking them was murder


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Ah OK. So it was a penalty then?

I think the women's world cup was a bit too ott with the pens for handball and they're trying to find the right balance.

I know they've taken intent out of it now. So would have thought it was easier to give them than not tbh.
		
Click to expand...

Nah wasnâ€™t a penalty - the ball accidently struck the arm of a Wolves player in the build up to the goal so it was disallowed- if the ball hits the arm accidentally outside the box itâ€™s play on


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 11, 2019)

Rules have changed in the summer that if a goal is scored with the hand or involved in the build up its handball. The word deliberate has been removed.


----------



## robinthehood (Aug 11, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49313879
What a nice story


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 11, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			I bet picking them was murder 

Click to expand...

The worse bit was when I tried to get Rashford in as well, and it said "you have too many man united players".

Wounded.

They are a lot cheaper than Liverpool and city equivalents, though.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 11, 2019)

Interesting read about what it will take for Liverpool to win the PL and break the "curse" https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48987404


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 11, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Would you have been happy if var checked it and gave it against you?

I'll keep an eye out on motd for it.
		
Click to expand...

I would never be happy if we conceded a goal.

But I'd completely understand if it was given. In this instance it's not actually VAR I dont think, it's the rule about the ball touching the arm at any point being a free kick.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 11, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Chelsea and Liverpool now travel to Turkey to compete in the Supercup,  what a waste of time honestly.
		
Click to expand...

Money money money .


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 12, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			I would never be happy if we conceded a goal.

But I'd completely understand if it was given. In this instance it's not actually VAR I dont think, it's the rule about the ball touching the arm at any point being a free kick.
		
Click to expand...

Remember last year when Wolves drew v City, cannot remember the players name but he scored via a diving header, but it hit his arm ( on purpose). A goal was given. VAR would of cancelled it out. Trouble is, where do you define accidental when it comes to professional players/cheats.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 12, 2019)

Not sure if it's this thread (not going through all the posts) or last seasons version, but I know the question of players being referees came up and there were discussions on the pros and cons. Just seen this and seems the FA is looking at a way of trying to get ex-players involved. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49007776 

I think it is a decent initiative but the biggest issue still has to be how you get them up the scale so they can ref at the highest level possible where their experience would really be an advantage. Not sure what the exact retirement age for a PL ref is these days (and how rigid that is) but a player retiring at 35 or so wouldn't have long to qualify and work their way up.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 12, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not sure if it's this thread (not going through all the posts) or last seasons version, but I know the question of players being referees came up and there were discussions on the pros and cons. Just seen this and seems the FA is looking at a way of trying to get ex-players involved. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49007776

I think it is a decent initiative but the biggest issue still has to be how you get them up the scale so they can ref at the highest level possible where their experience would really be an advantage. Not sure what the exact retirement age for a PL ref is these days (and how rigid that is) but a player retiring at 35 or so wouldn't have long to qualify and work their way up.
		
Click to expand...

There is not a retirement age now, ageist, but they have to pass the physical tests and receive consistent high marks. If they fail on either they drop out.

This has been obvious to me for years, target failed or retired footballers. The key has always been will the players be willing to make the change, stick their necks out, be on the receiving end?


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 12, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Remember last year when Wolves drew v City, cannot remember the players name but he scored via a diving header, but it hit his arm ( on purpose). A goal was given. VAR would of cancelled it out. Trouble is, where do you define accidental when it comes to professional players/cheats.
		
Click to expand...

It was the same one that got done yesterday. Karma i suppose.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 12, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not sure if it's this thread (not going through all the posts) or last seasons version, but I know the question of players being referees came up and there were discussions on the pros and cons. Just seen this and seems the FA is looking at a way of trying to get ex-players involved. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49007776

I think it is a decent initiative but the biggest issue still has to be how you get them up the scale so they can ref at the highest level possible where their experience would really be an advantage. Not sure what the exact retirement age for a PL ref is these days (and how rigid that is) but a player retiring at 35 or so wouldn't have long to qualify and work their way up.
		
Click to expand...

The problem though is ex pros opinions are usually not the same as the rest of us.
This has been demonstrated many times on here and motd .
So it would only be their opinion just like anybody elseâ€™s.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 12, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			There is not a retirement age now, ageist, but they have to pass the physical tests and receive consistent high marks. If they fail on either they drop out.

This has been obvious to me for years, target failed or retired footballers. The key has always been will the players be willing to make the change, stick their necks out, be on the receiving end?
		
Click to expand...

They make so much money from playing that I don't see what's in it for them to start refereeing for less money and lots of abuse. As opposed to getting more easy money as a pundit, for example.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 12, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			They make so much money from playing that I don't see what's in it for them to start refereeing for less money and lots of abuse. As opposed to getting more easy money as a pundit, for example.
		
Click to expand...

You are only thinking about PL players. Target the lads in Div 2, the Conference, the ones released who become dissolusioned etc. They don't make enough to retire on, they are not going to be asked to be pundits.


----------



## pendodave (Aug 12, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			They make so much money from playing that I don't see what's in it for them to start refereeing for less money and lots of abuse. As opposed to getting more easy money as a pundit, for example.
		
Click to expand...

Outside the top two divisions, there's not that much money about, and not many players have particularly long careers.
Punditry is not really available for anyone outside the top tier.
I would also say that just because you have a lot of money doesn't mean that you don't want to do something useful to pass the time. Becoming a good ref would be a challenge that I would imagine at least some sportsmen (who are presumably a competitive bunch) would be interested in. One of the biggest issues faced by sportsmen is the lack of structure and focus in their lives once they no longer play - reffing might be an answer to this for some.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 12, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You are only thinking about PL players. Target the lads in Div 2, the Conference, the ones released who become dissolusioned etc. They don't make enough to retire on, they are not going to be asked to be pundits.
		
Click to expand...

Ok, that's fair. But I still think the majority would rather move into coaching and remain involved in the game at that level rather than refereeing. There might be one or two though. They often like to remind us that Jon Moss played the game at some low level, yet a lot of people don't rate him as a ref, so maybe it doesn't help.  I think he's decent though.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 12, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Ok, that's fair. But I still think the majority would rather move into coaching and remain involved in the game at that level rather than refereeing. There might be one or two though. They often like to remind us that Jon Moss played the game at some low level, yet a lot of people don't rate him as a ref, so maybe it doesn't help.  I think he's decent though.
		
Click to expand...

I agree that few players want to do it. It is easy to call a ref, harder to do the job. The leagues may pick up some though and you would hope they would be able to relate to the players better.

I saw a good piece about Jon Moss at the weekend. He is a music buff, has a vinyl record shop in Headingly. 'Referee is human' shocker .


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 12, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I agree that few players want to do it. It is easy to call a ref, harder to do the job. The leagues may pick up some though and you would hope they would be able to relate to the players better.

I saw a good piece about Jon Moss at the weekend. He is a music buff, has a vinyl record shop in Headingly. 'Referee is human' shocker .
		
Click to expand...

Donâ€™t need good refs anymore.
All we need is someone to relay what the VAR decision is.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 12, 2019)

I go and watch Am footy, if you see the abuse the refs get there I am not surprised most give up.
Itâ€™s there they need to support, then some quality refs may come through.


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 12, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You are only thinking about PL players. Target the lads in Div 2, the Conference, the ones released who become dissolusioned etc. They don't make enough to retire on, they are not going to be asked to be pundits.
		
Click to expand...

A lot of the lads, in the lower tiers, have a trade which they go on to do after they've finished playing...


----------



## PieMan (Aug 12, 2019)

Most pros will look to turn to coaching first and foremost when they give up playing, either in League 1 or 2, or at semi-professional level, as that's where they have the most experience.

I know at least a dozen personally - all of whom have played in the EPL (and some internationally) - who have gone down this route. They also pick up the odd bit of punditry here and there as well for local radio where they were most popular/well known as players or had the most success.

All I've spoken to had zero interest in becoming a referee for a number of reasons.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 12, 2019)

I do think most players wouldn't consider refereeing and the article recognises the fact and is arguably the biggest hurdle the FA has, trying to change perceptions and interest. Of course, coaching and/or managing is for many the next step and desire and punditry (even at local level a viable alternative) but not everyone has these chances. I think it'll be a long time before we see too many ex-pros going into refereeing but you can't blame the FA for at least trying to offer an alternative path


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 12, 2019)

Ex. players could do their ref badges in the last 1-2 years of their career, at least the classroom stuff, so they can hit the ground running in high end amateur football, then with possible progression from there.

Prem refs can carry on until the're 50iirc, so if they start their reffing career at say 33/34, could see them have a reffing career for as long as their playing career, and prem refs are on a hell of a lot of money, and possibly even more than division 2 players. Not sure, but I'm sure that if it adds to their playing pension, keeps them fit and out of the bookies / pub/ golf course may see a lot less end up in divorce courts, as well.

The one possible downside may be that it may disillusion amateur refs who are trying to work their way up the pyramid, if there is a large influx of fit 35years old ex-pro's, who may also be seen to be getting preferential treatment.

Better refereeing all round should still be the number one priority, so may be worth having a 10 year trial, to see.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 12, 2019)

The majority of footballers haven't got the brains to be referees.

You've only got to hear some of the shite they spout in their punditry roles, I wouldnt let them ref kids football never mind conference football.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 12, 2019)

Loris Karius is apparently being recalled by Liverpool following Alisson's injury


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 12, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The majority of footballers haven't got the brains to be referees.

You've only got to hear some of the shite they spout in their punditry roles, I wouldnt let them ref kids football never mind conference football.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, and we all disagree with fellow fans, pundits refs, ex refs, players, ex. players, ex. pundits, so what does that have to do with anything? 

You make sure they pass the exams, mark them as other refs are watched periodically and if they get to the proffessional ranks great, if they dont hard luck.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 12, 2019)

Watched a replay of Liverpoolâ€™s game and sure I heard a pundit/comment saying if the ball hits the ref they have to stop the game!
But the ball hit Mike Dean at the W/end and he played advantage .
Whatâ€™s the score on this?


----------



## hairball_89 (Aug 12, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Loris Karius is apparently being recalled by Liverpool following Alisson's injury 

Click to expand...

Can't see that happening - his loan was a paid for deal with an obligation to buy. Much more likely we bring in an old, unattached keeper on a short term loan deal. Lonergan almost certainly to be the one as he was with the squad on the US tour.


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 12, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Watched a replay of Liverpoolâ€™s game and sure I heard a pundit/comment saying if the ball hits the ref they have to stop the game!
But the ball hit Mike Dean at the W/end and he played advantage .
Whatâ€™s the score on this?
		
Click to expand...

The game was stopped in the Spurs Villa game when it hit the ref. Deano makes up his own rules though.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 12, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			The game was stopped in the Spurs Villa game when it hit the ref. Deano makes up his own rules though.
		
Click to expand...

The one in the Liverpool game went to the intended player on the break but the ref still stopped the game!


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 12, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			The one in the Liverpool game went to the intended player on the break but the ref still stopped the game!
		
Click to expand...

Well that's stupid. I could understand stopping the game if the ref's intervention means the ball has gone to the opposite team.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 12, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Well that's stupid. I could understand stopping the game if the ref's intervention means the ball has gone to the opposite team.
		
Click to expand...

I am sure the comment was â€œ itâ€™s because a ref scored a goal when the ball hit him somewhere abroad, and he could not disallow itâ€
Just give him the option and let him referee.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 12, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ex. players could do their ref badges in the last 1-2 years of their career, at least the classroom stuff, so they can hit the ground running in high end amateur football, then with possible progression from there.

Prem refs can carry on until the're 50iirc, so if they start their reffing career at say 33/34, could see them have a reffing career for as long as their playing career, and prem refs are on a hell of a lot of money, and possibly even more than division 2 players. Not sure, but I'm sure that if it adds to their playing pension, keeps them fit and out of the bookies / pub/ golf course may see a lot less end up in divorce courts, as well.

The one possible downside may be that it may disillusion amateur refs who are trying to work their way up the pyramid, if there is a large influx of fit 35years old ex-pro's, who may also be seen to be getting preferential treatment.

Better refereeing all round should still be the number one priority, so may be worth having a 10 year trial, to see.
		
Click to expand...

I went on an FA level 1 coaching course years Ago when my lad was playing. The coaches on there were having a moan about how much it was to go on a UEFA b course, then the ones above that. Not just the cost but the time they would have to take out from work to do it. They then had there " moan". Apparantly as a professional footballer. When you pay into the PFA union. You are then, when you get to the end of your career entitled to go on coaching courses at no cost. The union pays it. Some do this when they are gettin get pearls the ends of there career. Why not do the same re referee courses. 
Another point. I was in a country pub last week, it's was small, compact and Bijou. A local was talking about the Stags. Mansfield Town. A guy asked how much they/ players earn in that division. He responded by saying Â£10 K a week. 1/2 a million quid a year. Are they really on that much. Surely not.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 12, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Watched a replay of Liverpoolâ€™s game and sure I heard a pundit/comment saying if the ball hits the ref they have to stop the game!
But the ball hit Mike Dean at the W/end and he played advantage .
Whatâ€™s the score on this?
		
Click to expand...

Yup I heard the same, and I think they also said it was because in one game on the continent, a ball hit the ref and the opposition team scored. So to stop that happening, if it hits the ref, stop the game.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 12, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Yup I heard the same, and I think they also said it was because in one game on the continent, a ball hit the ref and the opposition team scored. So to stop that happening, if it hits the ref, stop the game.
		
Click to expand...

It shouldn't be _compulsory _to stop the game though. As ClubChamp said subsequently, just give the ref the power to stop the game if him blocking the ball proves to be of great detriment to one of the teams. If it clips off the ref's leg but still goes to the right player or the right team then he should be able to say play on.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 12, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			It shouldn't be _compulsory _to stop the game though. As ClubChamp said subsequently, just give the ref the power to stop the game if him blocking the ball proves to be of great detriment to one of the teams. If it clips off the ref's leg but still goes to the right player or the right team then he should be able to say play on.
		
Click to expand...

So Mike Dean is right thatâ€™s a first!!!


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 12, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			It shouldn't be _compulsory _to stop the game though. As ClubChamp said subsequently, just give the ref the power to stop the game if him blocking the ball proves to be of great detriment to one of the teams. If it clips off the ref's leg but still goes to the right player or the right team then he should be able to say play on.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree. But is it a ruling or a common sense decision by Mike Dean.


----------



## hairball_89 (Aug 12, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Totally agree. But is it a ruling or a common sense decision by Mike Dean.
		
Click to expand...

Well, if those are the only options it's DEFINITELY a ruling!


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 12, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, and we all disagree with fellow fans, pundits refs, ex refs, players, ex. players, ex. pundits, so what does that have to do with anything?

*You make sure they pass the exam*s, mark them as other refs are watched periodically and if they get to the proffessional ranks great, if they dont hard luck.
		
Click to expand...

That would be a major problem for most footballers.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 12, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			A local was talking about the Stags. Mansfield Town. A guy asked how much they/ players earn in that division. He responded by saying Â£10 K a week. 1/2 a million quid a year. Are they really on that much. Surely not.
		
Click to expand...

Per game? Stags, game.........


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 12, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			That would be a major problem for most footballers.
		
Click to expand...

But not all.


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 12, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			I went on an FA level 1 coaching course years Ago when my lad was playing. The coaches on there were having a moan about how much it was to go on a UEFA b course, then the ones above that. Not just the cost but the time they would have to take out from work to do it. They then had there " moan". Apparantly as a professional footballer. When you pay into the PFA union. You are then, when you get to the end of your career entitled to go on coaching courses at no cost. The union pays it. Some do this when they are gettin get pearls the ends of there career. Why not do the same re referee courses.
Another point. I was in a country pub last week, it's was small, compact and Bijou. A local was talking about the Stags. Mansfield Town. A guy asked how much they/ players earn in that division. *He responded by saying Â£10 K a week. 1/2 a million quid a year.* Are they really on that much. Surely not.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely no chance.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 12, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			Absolutely no chance.
		
Click to expand...

I thought not. I had all on keeping me good b shut.


----------



## fundy (Aug 12, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			I thought not. I had all on keeping me good b shut.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.footy.com/footballers-vs-the-fans/#you-vs-your-club

average Mansfield player last year was reported to be on Â£1500 a week, just over Â£100k at City 

remember reports Salford were paying rooney 4k a week basic to try and get them into league 2 last year!


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 12, 2019)

fundy said:



https://www.footy.com/footballers-vs-the-fans/#you-vs-your-club

average Mansfield player last year was reported to be on Â£1500 a week, just over Â£100k at City 

remember reports Salford were paying rooney 4k a week basic to try and get them into league 2 last year!
		
Click to expand...

Cheers fundy me man. ðŸ‘


----------



## PieMan (Aug 13, 2019)

Man City - FIFA = Brown envelopes???!! ðŸ¤”ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 13, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Man City - FIFA = Brown envelopes???!! ðŸ¤”ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Brown envelopes.ðŸ˜³ Its 2019 Bacs transfer via caymen islands. ðŸ˜ðŸ‘


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 13, 2019)

A few big names gone out of the Champs league tonight.


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 13, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			A few big names gone out of the Champs league tonight.
		
Click to expand...

Cluj survived a scare thoughðŸ˜—


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 13, 2019)

Ludicrous that Ajax have to qualify after last years performance.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 13, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Cluj survived a scare thoughðŸ˜—
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 13, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Ludicrous that Ajax have to qualify after last years performance.
		
Click to expand...

I know what your saying but they scraped through. Just hope they don't go the same way as Monaco did a couple of years ago after selling there best players


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 14, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Man City - FIFA = Brown envelopes???!! ðŸ¤”ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Absolute farce. Â£315,000 small change for their owners and I wouldn't be surprised if they offered to pay it in cash.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 14, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Absolute farce. Â£315,000 small change for their owners and I wouldn't be surprised if they offered to pay it in cash.
		
Click to expand...

A pal of mine sent me a link from the daily mirror. He said it stinks. He couldn't of read the link. He is a Chelsea fan. It said in the piece that the " punishment ðŸ¤”" was not as severe as the one Chelsea recieved because it was no where near as bad as Chelsea's " activitys".


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 14, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			A pal of mine sent me a link from the daily mirror. He said it stinks. He couldn't of read the link. He is a Chelsea fan. It said in the piece that the " punishment ðŸ¤”" was not as severe as the one Chelsea recieved because it was no where near as bad as Chelsea's " activitys".
		
Click to expand...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49337051

City's punishment was only a fine because they fully accepted they were at fault and had altered their policy as soon as this was highlighted. A bit like someone arrested pleading guilty, not having to go through an expensive trial and getting 1/3 off their sentence. Presumably Chelsea fought the action and so the ban was added as punishment. Perhaps Chelsea were worse but clearly holding their hands up has helped City.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 14, 2019)

Re Sala. This dont look good and? puts a different light on things. 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-49345186


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 14, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Re Sala. This dont look good and?* puts a different light on things.*
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-49345186

Click to expand...

Why does it? Are you suggesting he was murdered by plane sabotage?


----------



## ger147 (Aug 14, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Re Sala. This dont look good and? puts a different light on things. 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-49345186

Click to expand...

It would seem to suggest a fault with the plane may have caused the accident as with that amount of CO in their bodies, the pilot would most likely have lost consciousness.

Speculation on my part of course but certainly evidence to suggest a possible cause of the accident.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 14, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Why does it? Are you suggesting he was murdered by plane sabotage?
		
Click to expand...

No not at all, from all the stories we have heard through the press. The pilot was coming in for a lot of criticism for not being able to fly at night. It seemed that fingers were being pointed in that direction. Unless I had missed something else.The  CO poisoning puts a whole new light on the unfortunate episode. The lack of oxygen in the air whilst flying looks like being a contributing factor. Similar to the events of the golfer a few years ago. â˜¹ï¸


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 14, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			No not at all, from all the stories we have heard through the press. The pilot was coming in for a lot of criticism for not being able to fly at night. It seemed that fingers were being pointed in that direction. Unless I had missed something else.The  CO poisoning puts a whole new light on the unfortunate episode. The lack of oxygen in the air whilst flying looks like being a contributing factor. Similar to the events of the golfer a few years ago. â˜¹ï¸
		
Click to expand...

Oh, sorry. I thought it was always assumed that the plane being in poor nick was the cause.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			No not at all, from all the stories we have heard through the press. The pilot was coming in for a lot of criticism for not being able to fly at night. It seemed that fingers were being pointed in that direction. Unless I had missed something else.The  CO poisoning puts a whole new light on the unfortunate episode. The lack of oxygen in the air whilst flying looks like being a contributing factor. Similar to the events of the golfer a few years ago. â˜¹ï¸
		
Click to expand...

Payne Stewart.
Think his was slightly different his was a jet .


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 14, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Payne Stewart.
Think his was slightly different his was a jet .
		
Click to expand...

IT was CC but again I think it was the lack of oxygen in where those on board were not aware of the problem and became unconscious. Just watching the news re the Sala incident and he was texting a friend saying he was scared stiff. So I wonder what was going off..


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 14, 2019)

Chelsea look a different side with Kante in midfield. Weak defending from Liverpool again though, were worrying signs against Norwich and not looking much better here despite dropping TAA for the more defensive minded Gomez. Nice assist from Pulisic though, beautifully weighted pass and Giroud doesn't miss many of them.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 14, 2019)

Real shame for Pulisic that, only just offside, was fantastic work from the right hand side. Liverpool struggling to handle Chelsea at the minute. Over-run in the midfield, dodgy at the back and not managing to create much going forward. Not a good first-half for them.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2019)

Our midfield are dire here .
Fabino just dosnt command the middle.
They just donâ€™t look like a team.
Chelsea look up for it and deserve the lead.

Under Var why is that not a pen his hands are up. Inconsistent!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Real shame for Pulisic that, only just offside, was fantastic work from the right hand side. Liverpool struggling to handle Chelsea at the minute. Over-run in the midfield, dodgy at the back and not managing to create much going forward. Not a good first-half for them.
		
Click to expand...

Yes good analogy midfield just dosnt look balanced .
But he should not be offside heâ€™s looking right down the line so thatâ€™s poor from him,


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 14, 2019)

Don't understand how neither Matip or Gomez picked up Giroud for the goal. Both of them caught ball-watching and Giroud gets in between. VVD can't do it all himself, and so far this season he's not been able to rely on the right-side of the defence. Pukki and Stiepermann were able to get in-between them multiple times last Friday, and it's happened again today.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Don't understand how neither Matip or Gomez picked up Giroud for the goal. Both of them caught ball-watching and Giroud gets in between. VVD can't do it all himself, and so far this season he's not been able to rely on the right-side of the defence. Pukki and Stiepermann were able to get in-between them multiple times last Friday, and it's happened again today.
		
Click to expand...

Yes and thatâ€™s the problem they are playing it around in front of the back four no pressure on the ball.
One ball and they are in.
Just like the Norwich goal Friday.


----------



## BrianM (Aug 14, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Chelsea look a different side with Kante in midfield. Weak defending from Liverpool again though, were worrying signs against Norwich and not looking much better here despite dropping TAA for the more defensive minded Gomez. Nice assist from Pulisic though, beautifully weighted pass and Giroud doesn't miss many of them.
		
Click to expand...

Kante is superb in midfield, not many better.
Chelsea look excellent tonight.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2019)

BrianM said:



			Kante is superb in midfield, not many better.
Chelsea look excellent tonight.
		
Click to expand...

KDB is but Kante is number two imo.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 14, 2019)

Well Firmino's made quite the difference


----------



## Fish (Aug 14, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Our midfield are dire here .
Fabino just dosnt command the middle.
They just donâ€™t look like a team.
Chelsea look up for it and deserve the lead.

Under Var why is that not a pen his hands are up. Inconsistent!
		
Click to expand...

I think his hands went up as protection from the high foot of a bicycle kick, not the ball.  When does a bicycle kick become dangerous?


----------



## huds1475 (Aug 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You may have got yourself confused but this is your exact question



You didnâ€™t ask â€œwho is English and better than Maguireâ€ did you - above was your direct quote of which I gave you a list - so yes I did answer your question

If you want a list of better than Maguire for under Â£80mil then most on that list is valid as well except I would put â€” Dunk , Coady , Lejeune at the same level as Maguire , I think Tarkoswki is a better defender - English and less than 80mil but then the signing they should have looked at was Alderwield - far better defender and available for Â£25mil until Friday .
		
Click to expand...

Lol. 

Thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2019)

Fish said:



			I think his hands went up as protection from the high foot of a bicycle kick, not the ball.  When does a bicycle kick become dangerous?
		
Click to expand...

Yes I agree but she didnâ€™t give a foul for dangerous kicking so itâ€™s a pen.

Re the Lino not flagging offside , so VVD tackles Giroud and breaks his leg !
The flag goes up then.
VAR is having a negative effect making players play a ball that was blatantly offside.


----------



## Fish (Aug 14, 2019)

Kepa ðŸ‘ðŸ‘ðŸ‘ðŸ’™


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2019)

Liverpool need to get in the transfer market and buy someone who can take a corner.


----------



## Fish (Aug 14, 2019)

Once again weâ€™re playing very well, creating plenty of chances, in 2 games against top opposition weâ€™ve dominated for long spells, we can only get stronger and hopefully more clinical, especially as new relationships on the field are formed. 

Hardly a struggling team/squad as so many predicted.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2019)

Fish said:



			Once again weâ€™re playing very well, creating plenty of chances, in 2 games against top opposition weâ€™ve dominated for long spells, we can only get stronger and hopefully more clinical, especially as new relationships on the field are formed.

Hardly a struggling team/squad as so many predicted.
		
Click to expand...

You have played well but only for the keeper it could be 4-4
But wouldnâ€™t judge it on this display ,worst Liverpool display I have seen for a long time.
If your lads knew the offside laws you would be winning.
Last thing we need is extra time in that heat.


----------



## fundy (Aug 14, 2019)

Fish said:



			Once again weâ€™re playing very well, creating plenty of chances, in 2 games against top opposition weâ€™ve dominated for long spells, we can only get stronger and hopefully more clinical, especially as new relationships on the field are formed. 

Hardly a struggling team/squad as so many predicted.
		
Click to expand...

good to see pre season is back again


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 14, 2019)

Thatâ€™s all they need, another 30 mins for a worthless cup. ðŸ˜„


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Thatâ€™s all they need, another 30 mins for a worthless cup. ðŸ˜„
		
Click to expand...

Bet you wish you were there


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 14, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Bet you wish you were there
		
Click to expand...

Honestly? No.

Champions League yes , Europa League yes but not this. Nobody seriously recognises this as a major honour.


----------



## Fish (Aug 14, 2019)

Not bothered about the final score now, this is a team in the making, loads of positives, got to have one eye on Leicester now.


----------



## Fish (Aug 14, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Thatâ€™s all they need, another 30 mins for a worthless cup. ðŸ˜„
		
Click to expand...

Should go straight to pens, ridiculous having extra time, Liverpool play Saturday and is Sunday, itâ€™s daft having ET for this.


----------



## Fish (Aug 14, 2019)

He worries me with those pens, Iâ€™m not convinced he can keep taking them like that.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 14, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Honestly? No.

Champions League yes , Europa League yes but not this. Nobody seriously recognises this as a major honour.
		
Click to expand...

Think that could well be the response of someone who is happy to finish in the top four year after year. As a City fan I would of loved to of been there.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2019)

Fish said:



			He worries me with those pens, Iâ€™m not convinced he can keep taking them like that.
		
Click to expand...

I thought you were not convinced it was a pen.
Thatâ€™s a shocking decision and any male ref giving that would get slated.
Var not worth a carrot.
â€œItâ€™s her big night and they donâ€™t want to ruin it for herâ€ according to J Jennas


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Honestly? No.

Champions League yes , Europa League yes but not this. Nobody seriously recognises this as a major honour.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry donâ€™t belive you!!!


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 14, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sorry donâ€™t belive you!!!
		
Click to expand...

Quick edit, the forum spell checkers are out tonight. ðŸ˜‰


----------



## hairball_89 (Aug 14, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Think that could well be the response of someone who is happy to finish in the top four year after year. As a City fan I would of loved to of been there.
		
Click to expand...

As a liverpool fan, absolutely agree 100%. And I want to win it, as per the Charity shield. it's a trophy, you want to lift every one available surely?


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 14, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I thought you were not convinced it was a pen.
Thatâ€™s a shocking decision and any male ref giving that would get slated.
Var not worth a carrot.
â€œItâ€™s her big night and they donâ€™t want to ruin it for herâ€ according to J Jennas
		
Click to expand...

Joking aside, not seen any of the game tonight. Got grandkids. How has the general standard of reffing been tonite


----------



## hairball_89 (Aug 14, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Joking aside, not seen any of the game tonight. Got grandkids. How has the general standard of reffing been tonite
		
Click to expand...

Apart from the pen, which was dubious but if it had been at the other end I'd want it, it's been great. Nothing unexpected, kept control of the game. Just a good ref, ref-ing a big game.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Joking aside, not seen any of the game tonight. Got grandkids. How has the general standard of reffing been tonite
		
Click to expand...

Sheâ€™s had nothing to do .
Two decisions for me she got both wrong.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 14, 2019)

Entertaining game but confused about VAR - was a handball they missed and then the penalty , guess itâ€™s going to still cause controversy 

Itâ€™s all shocking that itâ€™s going to extra time this early in the season especially when we play again in two days 

Can tell that our pre season has been in stages , just not fluid enough at the moment


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Joking aside, not seen any of the game tonight. Got grandkids. How has the general standard of reffing been tonite
		
Click to expand...

The grandkids are probably more entertaining.


----------



## Fish (Aug 14, 2019)

Not a great way to win or lose a cup match of any standard, now bring on Leicester on Sunday.


----------



## fundy (Aug 14, 2019)

so whys VAR not ordering that to be retaken?


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 14, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sorry donâ€™t belive you!!!
		
Click to expand...

I canâ€™t help that.


----------



## hairball_89 (Aug 14, 2019)

That'll do.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2019)

Nice to win but I still donâ€™t like penalty shootouts.
Well played Chelsea .
They need to look at this game and itâ€™s all thatâ€™s wrong about the time and place.
They all looked dead on their feet.
And it was always a mistake going to settle it.
Feel for the young lad.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 14, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Honestly? No.

Champions League yes , Europa League yes but not this. Nobody seriously recognises this as a major honour.
		
Click to expand...

You would love your team to be there because of what it meant

Looks like this needs to change again


ðŸ˜‰


Not a great way to win and awful for the young lad to miss


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 14, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			The grandkids are probably more entertaining.
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 14, 2019)

Justice for Liverpool I think.

Was never a pen in normal time for Abraham ( IMO) and itâ€™s fitting that he missed his pen in the shootout.

Not that it matters.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2019)

fundy said:



			so whys VAR not ordering that to be retaken?
		
Click to expand...

They have got everything wrong thatâ€™s why.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 14, 2019)

Second week of the season and both teams flogging there guts out for 120 mins in Asia. Good planning that by UEFA. As a City fan thanks.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2019)

Nice win but it papers over a few cracks in our midfield itâ€™s just not good enough.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 14, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Nice win but it papers over a few cracks in our midfield itâ€™s just not good enough.
		
Click to expand...

Didnâ€™t you say that all last season as well
ðŸ™„


----------



## davemc1 (Aug 14, 2019)




----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 14, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Nice win but it papers over a few cracks in our midfield itâ€™s just not good enough.
		
Click to expand...

What's changed from last year CC. ðŸ˜³


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You would love your team to be there because of what it meant

Looks like this needs to change again

View attachment 27982
ðŸ˜‰


Not a great way to win and awful for the young lad to miss
		
Click to expand...

I agree that it's the getting there that counts, but for me it's simply the European equivalent of the charity shield and doesn't belong on that wall.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Didnâ€™t you say that all last season as well
ðŸ™„
		
Click to expand...

No I said we need a goal scorer that takes the one and only chance he gets.
Salah was crap tonight but Mane was taken off again.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 14, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			No I said we need a goal scorer that takes the one and only chance he gets.
Salah was crap tonight but Mane was taken off again.
		
Click to expand...

That was Mane's 1st game back from a gruelling season last year, did you expect him to play 120mins and take a pen?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			What's changed from last year CC. ðŸ˜³
		
Click to expand...

Not much but like City if teams really have a go at us it shows . But not many do.
Great going forward but canâ€™t protect the back properly .
Milner looked shot tonight 
We continue to give the ball away to much to easy.
Firmino made a massive difference but he plays more like a link man ,it showed when he wasnâ€™t there.

I thought Klopp would bring a top CM in but he hasnâ€™t yet .
Just my opinion of course but the midfield tonight were second best.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			That was Mane's 1st game back from a gruelling season last year, did you expect him to play 120mins and take a pen?
		
Click to expand...

Yes.
He didnâ€™t look very happy when his number went up.
I think Salah played more than Mane in that season.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 14, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



*Yes*.
He didnâ€™t look very happy when his number went up.
		
Click to expand...

You obviously dont understand modern footballers with his view.


----------



## hairball_89 (Aug 14, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just my opinion of course but the midfield tonight were second best.
		
Click to expand...

Not just yours - Kante, Jorginho & Kovacic rang rings around us all game. Fabinho looked like he was playing in treacle tonight, Milner looked about 50 and Hendo not much better. Sure we'll get there soon enough though. 

Just need to add a few more big shiny things.


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You would love your team to be there because of what it meant

Looks like this needs to change again

View attachment 27982
ðŸ˜‰


Not a great way to win and awful for the young lad to miss
		
Click to expand...

Changed for you.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			You obviously dont understand modern footballers with his view.
		
Click to expand...

Obviously .


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 14, 2019)

hairball_89 said:



			Not just yours - Kante, Jorginho & Kovacic rang rings around us all game. Fabinho looked like he was playing in treacle tonight, Milner looked about 50 and Hendo not much better. Sure we'll get there soon enough though.

Just need to add a few more big shiny things.
		
Click to expand...

Well thank god itâ€™s not just me .


----------



## Rlburnside (Aug 15, 2019)

For all the refs talking to the keepers  before the penalty shootout you can clearly see both Adrian's feet well off the line, so should it have been retaken? 

But so hard for the officials to spot.


----------



## Beezerk (Aug 15, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Changed for you. 

View attachment 27985

Click to expand...


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 15, 2019)

Think Chelsea can take far more from that performance than Liverpool but not a great game for the neutral. Typically short sided, cash driven decision to have it so far away in Turkey and at a daft local time and then to tag ET onto it as well. I thought the ref did reasonably well under close scrutiny and seems to be getting a lot of positive feedback https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49352647


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 15, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			For all the refs talking to the keepers  before the penalty shootout you can clearly see both Adrian's feet well off the line, so should it have been retaken?

But so hard for the officials to spot.
		
Click to expand...

Disagree with that. It's the only thing the assistant has to look for, there are cameras looking at this. It should be a simple one to police, unlike lots of other things which are tricky. 

Did they use VAR last night? Does it work in shoot outs? If so there is no excuse.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 15, 2019)

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/cqbx9k

This is some pretty impressive analysis.


----------



## Rlburnside (Aug 15, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Disagree with that. It's the only thing the assistant has to look for, there are cameras looking at this. It should be a simple one to police, unlike lots of other things which are tricky. 

Did they use VAR last night? Does it work in shoot outs? If so there is no excuse.
		
Click to expand...


Your probebly right and should have been spotted by the assistant, VAR was used last night but don't think it could have been used for the shootout,if it was the penalty would have to be retaken, I watched it in slow motion and stopped it just before the ball was struck and Adrian's feet were clearly off the line.

VAR is used to clarify important decisions and you could argue it should be used for shootouts,but is that going to far.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 15, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Honestly? No.

Champions League yes , Europa League yes but not this. Nobody seriously recognises this as a major honour.
		
Click to expand...

100% this. What a massive waste of time! Plodding all the way out to Turkey for the European charity shield?? If Spurs were in that final I'd be fuming that they've had to travel all that way and play 120 minutes mid-week right at the start of the season. How utterly pointless. Obviously once you're there you want to win it, but I'm sure both clubs would have been quite happy if it was just cancelled altogether. Any 'trophy' that is only one game is totally worthless in my view. To say 'oh you wish your club had got there' is inexact, of course I wish we had won the Champion's League last season, but not as a pre-cursor for qualifying for the 'super cup'.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 15, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			Your probebly right and should have been spotted by the assistant, VAR was used last night but don't think it could have been used for the shootout,if it was the penalty would have to be retaken, I watched it in slow motion and stopped it just before the ball was struck and Adrian's feet were clearly off the line.

VAR is used to clarify important decisions and you could argue it should be used for shootouts,but is that going to far.
		
Click to expand...

Var wasnâ€™t great last night - how they didnâ€™t give the penalty against Christiansen Iâ€™ll never know especially with the new rules and it was clear and the penalty they got was never a penalty and there was one replay that clearly showed the lack of touch



Orikoru said:



			100% this. What a massive waste of time! Plodding all the way out to Turkey for the European charity shield?? If Spurs were in that final I'd be fuming that they've had to travel all that way and play 120 minutes mid-week right at the start of the season. How utterly pointless. Obviously once you're there you want to win it, but I'm sure both clubs would have been quite happy if it was just cancelled altogether. Any 'trophy' that is only one game is totally worthless in my view. To say 'oh you wish your club had got there' is inexact, of course I wish we had won the Champion's League last season, but not as a pre-cursor for qualifying for the 'super cup'. 

Click to expand...


I think Spurs would have given their right arm to be playing there last night considering the lack of trophies they have won and the way they celebrated â€œwinningâ€ the Audi Cup ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 15, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			Your probebly right and should have been spotted by the assistant, VAR was used last night but don't think it could have been used for the shootout,if it was the penalty would have to be retaken, I watched it in slow motion and stopped it just before the ball was struck and Adrian's feet were clearly off the line.

VAR is used to clarify important decisions and you could argue it should be used for shootouts,*but is that going to far.*

Click to expand...

At the end of the day the penalty shoot out resolved who won the trophy so I would class that as important . I think if you are going to use it then use it all of the time, not just for the 90 minutes or 120 minutes. Seeing if the goalkeeper is off the line or not can be checked in seconds, particularly if it was as clear as you say, I didn't watch the match. Hopefully UEFA, and the PL, will review this and keep a tighter check next time around.


----------



## Rlburnside (Aug 15, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			At the end of the day the penalty shoot out resolved who won the trophy so I would class that as important . I think if you are going to use it then use it all of the time, not just for the 90 minutes or 120 minutes. Seeing if the goalkeeper is off the line or not can be checked in seconds, particularly if it was as clear as you say, I didn't watch the match. Hopefully UEFA, and the PL, will review this and keep a tighter check next time around.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I tend to agree with you, it only took me 30 seconds to freeze frame on my tv so it can't be that hard.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think Spurs would have given their right arm to be playing there last night considering the lack of trophies they have won and the way they celebrated â€œwinningâ€ the Audi Cup ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Think about what you're saying. It would make absolutely no difference, given that if we _were_ in the Super Cup, it would be because we already won the Champion's League or the Europa Cup, thus completely overshadowing the Super Cup anyway. It is totally pointless. 

Worse than that, it's almost like a wooden spoon event. 'Congrats on winning that major trophy - your punishment is that you have to travel to Turkey on a Wednesday night to compete for this rubbish one as well.'


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Think about what you're saying. It would make absolutely no difference, given that if we _were_ in the Super Cup, it would be because we already won the Champion's League or the Europa Cup, thus completely overshadowing the Super Cup anyway. It is totally pointless.

Worse than that, it's almost like a wooden spoon event. 'Congrats on winning that major trophy - your punishment is that you have to travel to Turkey on a Wednesday night to compete for this rubbish one as well.'
		
Click to expand...

I can see your point.
But all the Liverpool fans who made the journey wonâ€™t.
They prob made a holiday out of it for a week.
If it was at Wembley fair enough but time and place was wrong.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 15, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Think about what you're saying. It would make absolutely no difference, given that if we _were_ in the Super Cup, it would be because we already won the Champion's League or the Europa Cup, thus completely overshadowing the Super Cup anyway. It is totally pointless.

Worse than that, it's almost like a wooden spoon event. 'Congrats on winning that major trophy - your punishment is that you have to travel to Turkey on a Wednesday night to compete for this rubbish one as well.'
		
Click to expand...


Itâ€™s not pointless at all - certainly not to the club or the players who played in it. I guess when you have never be in that position itâ€™s hard to understand but whilst it isnâ€™t at the level of other trophies itâ€™s still a competitive one as shown by the way the teams set out and played - it wasnâ€™t pointless to them 

The timing for the match isnâ€™t great but thatâ€™s the price to pay for success - if Spurs were playing last night against Chelsea it would be far from pointless


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 15, 2019)

Guessing the footie was crap...
As all the chat appears to be about VAR and the validity/worth of the match...


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Itâ€™s not pointless at all - certainly not to the club or the players who played in it. I guess when you have never be in that position itâ€™s hard to understand but whilst it isnâ€™t at the level of other trophies itâ€™s still a competitive one as shown by the way the teams set out and played - it wasnâ€™t pointless to them

The timing for the match isnâ€™t great but thatâ€™s the price to pay for success - *if Spurs were playing last night against Chelsea it would be far from pointless*

Click to expand...

As I said earlier, I'd want us to win, but outweighing that would be my annoyance at the players being knackered playing 120 mins in Turkey on a Wednesday night for a meaningless game. Getting a good start in the league is crucial and this would hardly help.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Guessing the footie was crap...
As all the chat appears to be about VAR and the validity/worth of the match...
		
Click to expand...

It wasnâ€™t the best ,but both teams played in fits and starts .
The heat made it very difficult for end to end stuff.
The commentators were praising the officials to high heaven ,when the only two big decisions she got both wrong and var backed her up.
J Jennas actually said â€œthey didnâ€™t want to ruin her big night â€œ jeez,
Both keepers played well .
Thought Chelsea looked quite good in spells, some really nice one twos around our defenders.
The finishing wasnâ€™t great by both teams. Excellent for Mane and Giroud goals though I must say.
It really looked an early season game no real flow to the game.

Stupid time and place imo but no lessons will be learnt by uefa.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			As I said earlier, I'd want us to win, but outweighing that would be my annoyance at the players being knackered playing 120 mins in Turkey on a Wednesday night for a meaningless game. Getting a good start in the league is crucial and this would hardly help.
		
Click to expand...

Possibly but most teams strive all season to get into Europe.
This is just a consequence of success.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 15, 2019)

Did UEFA state why it was held in Turkey? No real chance of a Turkish team being in the final, it's mighty hot at this time of year and it would only really be semi-handy for an Italian team, of those likely to make it there. For everyone else it is a bad location.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 15, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Did UEFA state why it was held in Turkey? No real chance of a Turkish team being in the final, it's mighty hot at this time of year and it would only really be semi-handy for an Italian team, of those likely to make it there. For everyone else it is a bad location.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s their ball and they will play where they want!
You only have to look at champs league final.
Who knows how they pick them or what itâ€™s based on.
Growing the game ???


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 15, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Think about what you're saying. It would make absolutely no difference, given that if we _were_ in the Super Cup, it would be because we already won the Champion's League or the Europa Cup, thus completely overshadowing the Super Cup anyway. It is totally pointless.

Worse than that, it's almost like a wooden spoon event. 'Congrats on winning that major trophy - your punishment is that you have to travel to Turkey on a Wednesday night to compete for this rubbish one as well.'
		
Click to expand...

I think it meant a lot to lampard because that would be a trophy win within 2 games of taking over


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 15, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Did UEFA state why it was held in Turkey? No real chance of a Turkish team being in the final, it's mighty hot at this time of year and it would only really be semi-handy for an Italian team, of those likely to make it there. For everyone else it is a bad location.
		
Click to expand...

Probably a reward for winning the bid to host the CL  final there next year. 

Envelopes, big massive brown ones.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 16, 2019)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49369915

I didn't know whether to laugh or not.

If its not come through correct. Its the story about Liverpools reseve goalie.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 16, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49369915

I didn't know whether to laugh or not.

If its not come through correct. Its the story about Liverpools reseve goalie.
		
Click to expand...

Step up 35-year-old Andy Lonergan! Big day for the lad.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 16, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1162309501640425474


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 16, 2019)

Dan2501 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1162309501640425474


Click to expand...

Wishing I hadn't put Liverpool in my acca now. Should have gone for both teams to score.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 16, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1161766472106070019
Lonergan seems like the gift that keeps on giving.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49369915

I didn't know whether to laugh or not.

If its not come through correct. Its the story about Liverpools reseve goalie.
		
Click to expand...

According to VAR it was a decent tackle!!


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49369915

I didn't know whether to laugh or not.

If its not come through correct. Its the story about Liverpools reseve goalie.
		
Click to expand...

Cant be no worse than Karius and Mignolet.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 16, 2019)

Police have release a picture of the " fan" who injured Adrian


----------



## fundy (Aug 17, 2019)

Nothings changed has it, were still super lightweight and think we can get away without 4 defenders and no holding midfielder against Burnley. Fine when weve got the ball, less so when 7 players are ahead of the ball and we lose it!

Have to get Torreira on for Guendoozi to give the side some defensive structure surely

Luiz exactly as expected fitting in fine, good when we have it, panicky when we dont lol


----------



## fundy (Aug 17, 2019)

Ceballos looks a decent player  shame hes only on loan

Plenty to improve on but 3 points


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 17, 2019)

fundy said:



			Ceballos looks a decent player  shame hes only on loan

Plenty to improve on but 3 points 

Click to expand...

Finding myself agreeing with MK in asking why Guendouzi is starting ahead of Torreira...


----------



## fundy (Aug 17, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Finding myself agreeing with MK in asking why Guendouzi is starting ahead of Torreira...
		
Click to expand...

MK?

Torreira should be one of the first names on the sheet, for some reason Doozi and Xhaka both seem to get picked ahead of him. Hopefully hes just easing Torreira back in having played in Copa America


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 17, 2019)

fundy said:



			MK?
		
Click to expand...

Keown...


----------



## fundy (Aug 17, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Keown...
		
Click to expand...

ah ok, on the mute button list


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 17, 2019)

Good win that, excellent goal from Bernard and a tidy start to the season. Nice to see Kean get a few minutes and look lively as well. 

Should have been more than 1 - Richarlison should have had at least 1, had 2 golden opportunities with free headers!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 17, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1162351557310144512
He needs to fire his agent ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1162351557310144512
He needs to fire his agent ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Wow. Hope he got paid an absolute fortune for that, that is shocking.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 17, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Good win that, excellent goal from Bernard and a tidy start to the season. Nice to see Kean get a few minutes and look lively as well.

Should have been more than 1 - Richarlison should have had at least 1, had 2 golden opportunities with free headers!
		
Click to expand...

I havnt seen much of Richarlison but when I have seen him he does miss lots of chances.
Must be hard for the team seeing chances going begging like that.
How would you rate him?


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 17, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I havnt seen much of Richarlison but when I have seen him he does miss lots of chances.
Must be hard for the team seeing chances going begging like that.
How would you rate him?
		
Click to expand...

Yeah pretty much, he's pretty wasteful, which is why he was never seen as our solution at CF. He's got so much potential, and is only 22, but needs to kick on and start burying the chances he gets. His movement is excellent so he picks up some great positions but some days he couldn't hit a barn door. Excited for our front 4 though if we can get them firing - Bernard, Gylfi, Richarlison and Kean is super exciting.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1162351557310144512
He needs to fire his agent ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Canâ€™t blame the agent for that ,he has to be taking the Michael.
Wonder how much he got for that?
He must be short of cash!


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 17, 2019)

ðŸ˜³ðŸ˜³ðŸ˜³


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 17, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			ðŸ˜³ðŸ˜³ðŸ˜³
		
Click to expand...

Bit harsh


----------



## Jensen (Aug 17, 2019)

I'll hold my hands up, that Stevie Wonder for Man City has taken his game to the next level


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 17, 2019)

Jensen said:



			I'll hold my hands up, that Stevie Wonder for Man City has taken his game to the next level
		
Click to expand...

KDB fantastic player.
Spurs did ok but need to up their game.
Next goal will be massive.
How was that not a pen.


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 17, 2019)

Pep and Aguero need to hug it out.


----------



## Jensen (Aug 17, 2019)

I don't think with Eriksen, Alderwerald and Vertonghen all in the last year of their contacts is helpful. Particularly it seems Eriksen will be away and Alderwerald is looking for big money


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 17, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Canâ€™t blame the agent for that ,he has to be taking the Michael.
Wonder how much he got for that?
He must be short of cash!
		
Click to expand...

Makes that Mickleson dancing look almost good


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 17, 2019)

ðŸ˜‚ well VAR was the best person in the team for Spurs today - won them a point


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 17, 2019)

Nope. Boom. Jesus.


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 17, 2019)

Oops.


----------



## adam6177 (Aug 17, 2019)

I absolutely hate VAR, it is ruining the game IMO.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 17, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			I absolutely hate VAR, it is ruining the game IMO.
		
Click to expand...

Have to agree and twice City have now been denied against Spurs of a winning goal. Wonder what Pep will say


----------



## fundy (Aug 17, 2019)

VAR made the right decision under the rules didnt it? Whether the rule is right is a totally different argument mind

If Pep wants to blame anyone it should be his wasteful players, how many chances do they actually need to win a game? Or maybe ask his keeper where he was for the first goal. Or his defense that got outjumped by Lucas Moura lol

Geez Im siding with Spurs, time for a lay down


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 17, 2019)

fundy said:



			VAR made the right decision under the rules didnt it? Whether the rule is right is a totally different argument mind

If Pep wants to blame anyone it should be his wasteful players, how many chances do they actually need to win a game? Or maybe ask his keeper where he was for the first goal. Or his defense that got outjumped by Lucas Moura lol

Geez Im siding with Spurs, time for a lay down
		
Click to expand...

VAR did make the right call on that one but it missed the clear penalty City should have had in the first half - the same inconsistent referees now just using technology to give poor decisions. It has made some good decisions but itâ€™s still not far from foolproof- and as I always thought itâ€™s ruining the whole enjoyment of the game


----------



## BrianM (Aug 17, 2019)

fundy said:



			VAR made the right decision under the rules didnt it? Whether the rule is right is a totally different argument mind

If Pep wants to blame anyone it should be his wasteful players, how many chances do they actually need to win a game? Or maybe ask his keeper where he was for the first goal. Or his defense that got outjumped by Lucas Moura lol

Geez Im siding with Spurs, time for a lay down
		
Click to expand...

Has his arm not got to move into a un-natural position?


----------



## ColchesterFC (Aug 17, 2019)

I think the problem is that the handball law is inconsistent. If the ball hits a defender's arm and it's not in an unnatural position or making his silhouette bigger then it's not a penalty. If the ball hits an attacker's arm then the goal is ruled out regardless of the position of his arm or whether it was intentional or accidental. That doesn't seem right to me.

That's not a comment on the incident today as I haven't seen it but a general comment.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 17, 2019)

BrianM said:



			Has his arm not got to move into a un-natural position?
		
Click to expand...


Arm has made the body bigger - not in the silhouette of the body etc


----------



## ColchesterFC (Aug 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Arm has made the body bigger - not in the silhouette of the body etc
		
Click to expand...

Which is where the rule is wrong - imo. You now have different versions of what constitutes handball depending on whether it is the attacking team or the defending team. Imagine how many penalties would be awarded if they had that same rule at the other end of the pitch.


----------



## anotherdouble (Aug 17, 2019)

Now with VAR you have two people, the match official and the video official who have taken the compulsory vow of silence, so we still none the wiser as To reasonings for decisions


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 17, 2019)

The handball rule is pathetic.

If that's a foul then the game is finished. 

Imagine if that ball hits Skipp's arm before Laporte's that's a pen under these rules. Shocking.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 17, 2019)

Law 12 now says if it hits an attackers arm in the process of a goal being scored (according to my TV coverage) then no matter what position it is in the goal is disallowed. Seems firmly balanced in defensive favour where they still have this silhouette to get them out of trouble


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The handball rule is pathetic.

If that's a foul then the game is finished.

Imagine if that ball hits Skipp's arm before Laporte's that's a pen under these rules. Shocking.
		
Click to expand...

It was a foul so the game is finished for you. 

I assume youâ€™ll never watch Liverpool ever again?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The handball rule is pathetic.

If that's a foul then the game is finished.

Imagine if that ball hits Skipp's arm before Laporte's that's a pen under these rules. Shocking.
		
Click to expand...

Seems the rule is that if the ball touches the arm and ends up with a goal then itâ€™s a free kick , if it did hit Skipps arm then yep itâ€™s a penalty


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Arm has made the body bigger - not in the silhouette of the body etc
		
Click to expand...

Arm has made the body bigger? Are you sure?

It looked to me like both players were jostling for position and the natural progression of this has occurred. Nothing like making his body bigger.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The handball rule is pathetic.

If that's a foul then the game is finished.

Imagine if that ball hits Skipp's arm before Laporte's that's a pen under these rules. Shocking.
		
Click to expand...

Looking at the slow motion, Laportte has dropped his head forward trying to head the ball and isn't even looking at the ball as it hits the arm and you could argue is being pushed into the direction by the defender. Absolutely no intent and before VAR it would be a goal, no one complained in a Spurs shirt and no issue


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seems the rule is that if the ball touches the arm and ends up with a goal then itâ€™s a free kick , *if it did hit Skipps arm then yep itâ€™s a penalty*

Click to expand...

Is that really how the game should be played? 

You'll happily accept it next week or in future against us?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Atm has made the body bigger? Are you sure?

It looked to me like both players were jostling for position and the natural progression of this has occurred. Nothing like making his body bigger.
		
Click to expand...

It doesnâ€™t matter as the attacker - if a goal is scored after it hits the arm then itâ€™s a free kick for the defending team.

and they both looked like their arms were away from their body



Stuart_C said:



			Is that really how the game should be played?

You'll happily accept it next week or in future against us?
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s the rules now though and they are crap. VAR and rules etc are ruining the game but thatâ€™s now because refs arenâ€™t good enough and clubs know there are millions riding on games

The bigger crime was how they didnâ€™t see that penalty


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The handball rule is pathetic.

If that's a foul then the game is finished.

Imagine if that ball hits Skipp's arm before Laporte's that's a pen under these rules. Shocking.
		
Click to expand...


Itâ€™s right weâ€™re just not use to it because weâ€™ve had to put up with wrong decisions for decades.

Long live VAR!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It doesnâ€™t matter as the attacker - if a goal is scored after it hits the arm then itâ€™s a free kick for the defending team.

and they both looked like their arms were away from their body
		
Click to expand...

Not sure what incident you were watching. In my opinion the arm was pretty close to the body as he stooped down and was also being jostled by the defender


----------



## BrianM (Aug 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It doesnâ€™t matter as the attacker - if a goal is scored after it hits the arm then itâ€™s a free kick for the defending team.

and they both looked like their arms were away from their body


They both â€˜lookedâ€™ like their arms were away from their body, really?
Did you not see the coverage.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 17, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Itâ€™s right weâ€™re just not use to it because weâ€™ve had to put up with wrong decisions for decades.

Long live VAR!
		
Click to expand...

Two wrongs dont make a right, VAR used correctly I'd possibly agree. 

Do you expect  defenders to tackle,mark players on corners, jostle for the ball with their hands behind their backs  when theres a  very good chance if it hits the arm it's a foul/pen?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 17, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Itâ€™s right weâ€™re just not use to it because weâ€™ve had to put up with wrong decisions for decades.

Long live VAR!
		
Click to expand...

Still wrong decisions happening though - both in that game and in others


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It doesnâ€™t matter as the attacker - if a goal is scored after it hits the arm then itâ€™s a free kick for the defending team.

*and they both looked like their arms were away from their body*



Itâ€™s the rules now though and they are crap. VAR and rules etc are ruining the game but thatâ€™s now because refs arenâ€™t good enough and clubs know there are millions riding on games

The bigger crime was how they didnâ€™t see that penalty
		
Click to expand...

Where else are they supposed to be when they're jostling for a position to win the ball?

Try playing football with your arms strapped toyour body.

It's impossible.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 17, 2019)

At the airport guess what i didnt see. ðŸ˜–ðŸ˜


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Where else are they supposed to be when they're jostling for a position to win the ball?

Try playing football with your arms strapped toyour body.
		
Click to expand...

Stu Iâ€™m with you on it - Iâ€™m not disagreeing with your view 

Itâ€™s poor and it was said last season it was going to end up with loads of penalties etc 

Good to see Pep carrying on with his bitterness though - going on about last seasons handballs and going on about VAR in the supercup - all against poor old City


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Still wrong decisions happening though - both in that game and in others
		
Click to expand...

Yeah itâ€™s not perfect but even if it reduces errors by 50% it has to be a good thing still.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 17, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			It was a foul so the game is finished for you.

I assume youâ€™ll never watch Liverpool ever again?
		
Click to expand...

For such an intelligent fella, you'd be pretty stupid to assume that. 

When you have followed your local team for nearly 40 years through many highs and lows its very hard to just walk away from it no matter what it throws at you. 

Now if I was hanging on to a team 100's of miles away from where I was from then it'd probably be easier to walk away.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Stu Iâ€™m with you on it - Iâ€™m not disagreeing with your view

Itâ€™s poor and it was said last season it was going to end up with loads of penalties etc

Good to see Pep carrying on with his bitterness though - going on about last seasons handballs and going on about VAR in the supercup - all against poor old City
		
Click to expand...

You're agreeing with me but, this comment looks like you're justifying it.

*"and they both looked like their arms were away from their body"*


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 17, 2019)

Loving VAR so far. 2 goals ruled out against us already. Correct decisions given. Just finally nice to see decisions given in favour of the smaller teams


----------



## fundy (Aug 17, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Loving VAR so far. 2 goals ruled out against us already. Correct decisions given. Just finally nice to see decisions given in favour of the smaller teams
		
Click to expand...

Wham a smaller side than Brighton. Finally a hammer who gets their true worth ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			You're agreeing with me but, this comment looks like you're justifying it.

*"and they both looked like their arms were away from their body"*

Click to expand...

Justify what ? Going by the new rules it was correctly ruled out and if it had hit the Spurs player it could well have been a penalty - the comment was in response to you asking if it would have been a penalty ?!


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 17, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not sure what incident you were watching. In my opinion the arm was pretty close to the body as he stooped down and was also being jostled by the defender
		
Click to expand...

This is all irrelevant now. The new rule says any contact with the arm during a goal means it gets disallowed, basically. Last season I don't think that would have been given as a handball. But now it is because it touched his arm and assisted a goal.

I think that law change is nonsense really, but as that is the law, VAR ruled it out correctly. Often people are slating VAR when the real problem is the laws being stupid. It's the same with offisde, I think defining offside as someone's shoulder being a millimetre past the other guy's toe is rubbish, but that's how it is so VAR just shows that.

Yeah was a penalty for them first half as well, no idea why they didn't look at that.

We've burgled a point, I'm loving it though obviously. What the hell was Ederson doing on our first goal, his positioning was shocking. And I'm not sure how you let 5'8 Lucas score a header. City do have themselves to blame as well, but we've ridden our luck big time. Ahhh, football.


----------



## Jensen (Aug 17, 2019)

Despite working in our favour, I'm not convinced by VAR. The incident in the first half was definitely a penalty for City, so how did VAR not pick this up. It's incidents like this which is why VAR was brought in. 
The use of VAR in the winning goal was a farce, as I didn't see any advantage gained.
As a City fan said on talksport, VAR will kill the game for the match going supporter, celebrating then only for it to be ruled out. The only ones who win are the armchair fans, however the match going fan is sadly worth nothing these days.
 City look frightening at times, Lloris pulled off a few saves. I'm grateful for the point, but if the shoe was on the other foot I wouldn't be happy


----------



## NWJocko (Aug 17, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Despite working in our favour, I'm not convinced by VAR. The incident in the first half was definitely a penalty for City, so how did VAR not pick this up. It's incidents like this which is why VAR was brought in.
The use of VAR in the winning goal was a farce, as I didn't see any advantage gained.
As a City fan said on talksport, VAR will kill the game for the match going supporter, celebrating then only for it to be ruled out. *The only ones who win are the armchair fans, however the match going fan is sadly worth nothing these days.*
City look frightening at times, Lloris pulled off a few saves. I'm grateful for the point, but if the shoe was on the other foot I wouldn't be happy
		
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more with this.

It's absolute bollocks but the armchair "fans" are where the money comes from.

Sad really.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 17, 2019)

NWJocko said:



			Couldn't agree more with this.

It's absolute bollocks but the armchair "fans" are where the money comes from.

Sad really.
		
Click to expand...

It will also be ruining the game for a lot of â€œarmchairâ€ fans as well - var is the worst thing to happen to the sport


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 17, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1162794191832961033
ðŸ˜ðŸ˜


----------



## NWJocko (Aug 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It will also be ruining the game for a lot of â€œarmchairâ€ fans as well - var is the worst thing to happen to the sport
		
Click to expand...

Don't really understand this?

Its the armchair fans/Sky/BT/media crusade that's brought VAR in.

I'm pretty sure that Sky and BT actually think it enhances the viewing experience and adds to drama etc


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 17, 2019)

The game evolves and rule changes although reluctantly accepted at the time;  pass back, offside, tackle from behind to name a few, they've improved the game on the whole. 

I cannot see this handball having the same impact on improving the game.

VAR is useful and probably needed for a few decisions but today's decision wasnt because of VAR, it's down to the pathetic handball rule.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 17, 2019)

Gotta say am glad we have VAR. It stops any arguments whether it was or wasn't a goal. ðŸ˜


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 17, 2019)

Just seen highlights on youtube re game. ðŸ˜³how was that not a penalty in first half or not referred to VAR. 

See you all in a week. ðŸ˜˜


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 17, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			This is all irrelevant now. The new rule says any contact with the arm during a goal means it gets disallowed, basically. Last season I don't think that would have been given as a handball. But now it is because it touched his arm and assisted a goal.

I think that law change is nonsense really, but as that is the law, VAR ruled it out correctly. Often people are slating VAR when the real problem is the laws being stupid. It's the same with offisde, I think defining offside as someone's shoulder being a millimetre past the other guy's toe is rubbish, but that's how it is so VAR just shows that.

Yeah was a penalty for them first half as well, no idea why they didn't look at that.

We've burgled a point, I'm loving it though obviously. What the hell was Ederson doing on our first goal, his positioning was shocking. And I'm not sure how you let 5'8 Lucas score a header. City do have themselves to blame as well, but we've ridden our luck big time. Ahhh, football.
		
Click to expand...

I said that in an earlier post but my point is the law is an ass. Any incident of the ball touching an attackers arm is now no-goal. As this incident showed, 100% unintentional and I am not sure he even saw the ball looking at his head down position and being pushed by the defender. 

I will be interested to see how consistently this is applied as the season progressing. As you say the penalty shout in the first half should have been reviewed so I'm not sold 100% on VAR. Some goals being ruled out, and on review the correct decision is being reached so you can argue VAR is doing what it's intended to do. Perhaps its just FIFA and the laws that are what need tweaking


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 17, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I said that in an earlier post but my point is the law is an ass. Any incident of the ball touching an attackers arm is now no-goal. As this incident showed, 100% unintentional and I am not sure he even saw the ball looking at his head down position and being pushed by the defender. 

I will be interested to see how consistently this is applied as the season progressing. As you say the penalty shout in the first half should have been reviewed so I'm not sold 100% on VAR. Some goals being ruled out, and on review the correct decision is being reached so you can argue VAR is doing what it's intended to do. Perhaps its just FIFA and the laws that are what need tweaking
		
Click to expand...

Last sentence Homer. It is already down for being â€œ tweakedâ€ after the sterling offside by his armpit. FIFA have already said they will


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 17, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Last sentence Homer. It is already down for being â€œ tweakedâ€ after the sterling offside by his armpit. FIFA have already said they will
		
Click to expand...

Definitely needs looking at. Decisions like today will make it so sterile. No-one complained and everyone thought it was a goal


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 17, 2019)

I'm all in on var tbh.

I've spent 36 years supporting a team where I was contantly told to basically accept my our place re decisions because things even themselves out over the course of a season. 

I think it needs to be streamlined, but it already seems less disruptive than what was seen at the Woman's world cup. 

I'm now a paid up armchair fan that spend the first 25 years watching the "proper" way. If the time taken improves then imo it'd more nostalgia holding people back. Yes we all like a chat down the pub, but I've very rarely seen fans just accept a result that goes against them in a big game, and why should they.

The goal today could happen last day if the season, should a team miss top 4 or face relegation when the system could prove it was the wrong call?


----------



## davemc1 (Aug 17, 2019)

Canâ€™t believe Adrianâ€™s blunder hasnâ€™t had a mention ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ˜†


----------



## ColchesterFC (Aug 17, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Canâ€™t believe Adrianâ€™s blunder hasnâ€™t had a mention ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ˜†
		
Click to expand...

Would almost certainly have been mentioned more if it had affected the result but with Liverpool still winning it's less important. If your keeper chucks one in and you win it doesn't matter as much as if he does the same and you draw or lose.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Justify what ? *Going by the new rules it was correctly ruled out and if it had hit the Spurs player it could well have been a penalty* - the comment was in response to you asking if it would have been a penalty ?!
		
Click to expand...

According to Lineker on MOTD, it wouldnâ€™t have been a pen had it hit Skipp accidentally. Two different rules for the same thing.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 17, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Would almost certainly have been mentioned more if it had affected the result but with Liverpool still winning it's less important. If your keeper chucks one in and you win it doesn't matter as much as if he does the same and you draw or lose.
		
Click to expand...

You mustâ€™ve missed it on here after Leicester away last season then ðŸ˜‰


----------



## davemc1 (Aug 17, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Would almost certainly have been mentioned more if it had affected the result but with Liverpool still winning it's less important. If your keeper chucks one in and you win it doesn't matter as much as if he does the same and you draw or lose.
		
Click to expand...

Have a look at last years thread after Alisonâ€™s cock up v Leicester

Same time of the season, same result ðŸ¥³


----------



## ColchesterFC (Aug 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			You mustâ€™ve missed it on here after Leicester away last season then ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...




davemc1 said:



			Have a look at last years thread after Alisonâ€™s cock up v Leicester

Same time of the season, same result ðŸ¥³
		
Click to expand...

Got to say I must have missed that. I guess it must be different then when a free transfer keeper chucks one in your own net compared to a Â£60+ million keeper chucking one in his own net. ðŸ‘


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 18, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Canâ€™t believe Adrianâ€™s blunder hasnâ€™t had a mention ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ˜†
		
Click to expand...

If Liverpool had dropped points today then the coverage would have been 100x, as it it was it didnâ€™t really matter.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 18, 2019)

Am All for VAR even after yesterday, but it seems common sense ain't that common. The first penalty shout. Where was VAR, i can only assume the guy watching it must of nipped out for a pie. For me both instances came from corners. Theres a lot going off. Can understand if a ref don't see everything. But in that instance VAR should of let the ref look at a screen and let him
Make a decision. He is there to ref. Same with the handball. Theres times when its a deliberate handball and times when its not. Two players jostling for a ball and it clips his hand so its disallowed. If we had got a penalty from a handball like that i would say the games gone mad.


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 18, 2019)

The matches I attend nowadays I can now attend safe in the knowledge VAR won't be spoiling my morning out... Happy days ðŸ‘...

As a (now) "armchair" fan of the prem I don't recollect there being a swell of demand from those in front of the screen... From behind most certainly... I mean, who'd wish giving pundits a greater opportunity to talk spherical objects???


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 18, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			For such an intelligent fella, you'd be pretty stupid to assume that.

When you have followed your local team for nearly 40 years through many highs and lows its very hard to just walk away from it no matter what it throws at you.

Now if I was hanging on to a team 100's of miles away from where I was from then it'd probably be easier to walk away.
		
Click to expand...

No thatâ€™s fair enough, just donâ€™t say footballâ€™s over for you then?


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 18, 2019)

Pukki's first goal yesterday was an absolute cracker. He looks a proper goal scorer, has looked fantastic so far.


----------



## pokerjoke (Aug 18, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Pukki's first goal yesterday was an absolute cracker. He looks a proper goal scorer, has looked fantastic so far.
		
Click to expand...

Have not seen his goals from yesterday but against Liverpool he missed good opportunities.
Letâ€™s see if he does it against the big teams


----------



## TheDiablo (Aug 18, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			Have not seen his goals from yesterday but against Liverpool he missed good opportunities.
Letâ€™s see if he does it against the big teams
		
Click to expand...

Norwich won't really care how he does against the top teams. It's goals against the bottom half teams that are important. V good start in that regard.


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 18, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			Have not seen his goals from yesterday but against Liverpool he missed good opportunities.
Letâ€™s see if he does it against the big teams
		
Click to expand...

The guy arrived at Norwich on a 'free' so guessing he has already delivered way above expectations... And, a hatrick, against any opposition in the prem, is worthy of praise...


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 18, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Am All for VAR even after yesterday, but it seems common sense ain't that common. The first penalty shout. Where was VAR, i can only assume the guy watching it must of nipped out for a pie. For me both instances came from corners. Theres a lot going off. Can understand if a ref don't see everything. But in that instance VAR should of let the ref look at a screen and let him
Make a decision. He is there to ref. Same with the handball. Theres times when its a deliberate handball and times when its not. Two players jostling for a ball and it clips his hand so its disallowed. If we had got a penalty from a handball like that i would say the games gone mad.
		
Click to expand...

I think VAR got it right in the City game !
If you watch it again the ball is deflected quite a bit and would have gone straight to the spurs player just in the box and not to Jesus.
It got it wrong for the pen, itâ€™s still an opinion of the Video ref.

I do agree with most though the handball rule is very poor.
But rule changes create debate as in the rule changes in golf this year.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 18, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			Have not seen his goals from yesterday but against Liverpool he missed good opportunities.
Letâ€™s see if he does it against the big teams
		
Click to expand...

He scored against Liverpool.


----------



## davemc1 (Aug 18, 2019)

chelsea are buggered under lampard if he sees Kante in a dm role and not his usual preferred Mo Salah position! ðŸ¥´ðŸ˜†


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 18, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Do you enjoy acting the idiot on here every single day?
		
Click to expand...

Why make the statement then? Why say that football is over for you when youâ€™re clearly as invested as ever? It clearly doesnâ€™t actually affect your devotion to the game and your team so hyperbolic statements like that are pointless.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 18, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Why make the statement then? *Why say that football is over for you *when youâ€™re clearly as invested as ever? It clearly doesnâ€™t actually affect your devotion to the game and your team so hyperbolic statements like that are pointless.
		
Click to expand...

Instead of trying to be a smart arse actually read what Stu wrote 

Here it is - so point out where he said â€œover for meâ€




Stuart_C said:



			The handball rule is pathetic.

*If that's a foul then the game is finished.*

Imagine if that ball hits Skipp's arm before Laporte's that's a pen under these rules. Shocking.
		
Click to expand...

He said the game is finished - didnâ€™t say â€œitâ€™s over for meâ€ 

Stop embarrassing yourself


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 18, 2019)

Zouma in no mans land for that Leicester goal. Needed to be on the toes of Ndidi


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 18, 2019)

Maddison is looking like real quality today. Get him in the England team. 

Chelsea looking quite flaky.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 18, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Maddison is looking like real quality today. Get him in the England team.

Chelsea looking quite flaky.
		
Click to expand...

If only heâ€™d pass quicker, Leicester win that game.


----------



## User62651 (Aug 18, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Maddison is looking like real quality today. Get him in the England team.

Chelsea looking quite flaky.
		
Click to expand...

That loan stint with Aberdeen a couple of seasons ago was clearly the making of the lad!


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 18, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Instead of trying to be a smart arse actually read what Stu wrote

Here it is - so point out where he said â€œover for meâ€




He said the game is finished - didnâ€™t say â€œitâ€™s over for meâ€

Stop embarrassing yourself
		
Click to expand...

Can you read?


----------



## adam6177 (Aug 18, 2019)

Chelsea lucky to come away with a point in the end. Love the football season being back ðŸ‘


----------



## Captainron (Aug 18, 2019)

Football. Meh


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 18, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Why make the statement then? Why say that football is over for you when youâ€™re clearly as invested as ever? It clearly doesnâ€™t actually affect your devotion to the game and your team so hyperbolic statements like that are pointless.
		
Click to expand...

_*The handball rule is pathetic.*_

_*If that's a foul then the game is finished.*_

The above statement is my opinion, thatâ€™s all.

How do you know how invested or devoted I am? Or are you just being the argumentative tool you always are?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 18, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			If only heâ€™d pass quicker, Leicester win that game.
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully that will come. Surely Vardy will be in his ear, Rodgers will be working on it in training. He has the touch, skill and vision.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 18, 2019)

Sat thinking about the last two games re VAR and cannot help but think the little things are already going against us ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## GG26 (Aug 18, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Hopefully that will come. Surely Vardy will be in his ear, Rodgers will be working on it in training. He has the touch, skill and vision.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed, wasted several good positions towards the end with poor decisions or execution.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 18, 2019)

Why VAR did not intervene to award Man City penalty vs Spurs

Man City drew against Tottenham on Sunday after Gabriel Jesus' injury-time goal was disallowed for handball.

The video assistant referee did not intervene to award Manchester City a penalty in two instances against Tottenham because it was not deemed that the on-field referee had made a clear and obvious error in not doing so.

Spurs forward Erik Lamela grappled City midfielder Rodri to the ground while attempting to defend a first-half corner before Aymeric Laporte was tugged back by Oliver Skipp in the build-up to Gabriel Jesus' disallowed injury-time goal.


MEN Sport put both issues to the Premier League after full-time and they offered the following response.

"The VAR is constantly monitoring the match.

"VAR will be used only for 'clear and obvious errors' or 'serious missed incidents' in four match-changing situations: goals; penalty decisions; direct red-card incidents; and mistaken identity.

"But factual decisions such as offsides, and the issue of whether a player is inside or outside the penalty area, are not subject to the 'clear and obvious' test. 

"If the VAR sees an error has been made in such a situation they will intervene, regardless of how marginal the decision is.


"There will be a high bar for the VARs to intervene on subjective decisions, to maintain the pace and intensity of matches."

Meanwhile, Ilkay Gundogan has called for a rule change after City saw a goal disallowed for a second Premier League match in succession.


"Today's VAR decision is really hard to take," Gundogan tweeted. "Any attacker that commits handball, intentional or not, is now ruled a free kick? And if youâ€™re defending itâ€™s fine?

"It only disadvantages the attacking team. In my opinion this rule needs to be changed."

ManchesterEveningNews printed that. 

As clear as fog


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 18, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			Norwich won't really care how he does against the top teams. It's goals against the bottom half teams that are important. V good start in that regard.
		
Click to expand...

True. All about doing well in the mini-league of 6-7 clubs at the bottom. I wonder if he was a little intimidated at Anfield (not the first player to be so) and given the state of the game simply snatched at the chances where he's now more confident and has that split second of extra time good strikers seem to find


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 18, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1163171548968226818
City fans fighting again ðŸ™„


----------



## Jensen (Aug 18, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1163171548968226818
City fans fighting again ðŸ™„
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, our lot aren't exactly angels


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 18, 2019)

Jensen said:



			To be fair, our lot aren't exactly angels
		
Click to expand...

Yep your right, but it doesnt excuse the  city fan who cracked a female spurs fan right by the divide, coward.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 18, 2019)

These are the sort of nuggets that the premier league attracts - such a sad state of affairs.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Aug 18, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 28019


These are the sort of nuggets that the premier league attracts - such a sad state of affairs.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair though Phil he has "supported Chelsea since 04". ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 18, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 28019


These are the sort of nuggets that the premier league attracts - such a sad state of affairs.
		
Click to expand...

I agree heâ€™s a numpty, but the premier league isnâ€™t the issue. Thereâ€™s plenty of em in other leagues too.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 18, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Yep your right, but it doesnt excuse the  city fan who cracked a female spurs fan right by the divide, coward.
		
Click to expand...

To be honest since we started winning stuff. We have had a generation of young fans that quite frankly are planks. Dont get me wrong we have a fair share of elderly nutters as Most clubs do. But pre match in Mary dees sees the wrong side of football fans. Fortunately it is a minority.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 18, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 28019


These are the sort of nuggets that the premier league attracts - such a sad state of affairs.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s obviously a wind up.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 18, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Or are you just being the argumentative tool you always are?
		
Click to expand...

Is it just me who pictures the fella in the Bud light advert wanting a malty and full-bodied, autumnal, mead?

Dilly, dilly.


----------



## huds1475 (Aug 18, 2019)

People used to moan at referees, and now moan at VAR.

The actual problem for a long time has been the openness of the rules to different interpretations.

The incident @ citeh last night was a classic example.  Correct interpretation of a rule that might be called questionable by some.

Over the next 12 months I'm hoping VAR will highlight the flaws in the rules and help correct them. Making the game fairer for all teams and reducing the odious whining and blaming of others.

A little optimistic but you never know


----------



## Pin-seeker (Aug 19, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1163171548968226818
City fans fighting again ðŸ™„
		
Click to expand...

Could it be said that they werenâ€™t real fans?

Or is that line reserved for when Liverpool fans push people into fountains,throw things at busses & fight on the underground? 
ðŸ™„


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 19, 2019)

Captainron said:



			Football. Meh
		
Click to expand...

Only five weeks to the RWC when you'll be able to fill your boots...


----------



## Captainron (Aug 19, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Only five weeks to the RWC when you'll be able to fill your boots...
		
Click to expand...

YAY!!!!!


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 19, 2019)

Captainron said:



			YAY!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

It's a bit of a shame for you that SA are a bit rubbish at Rugby, as you are bound for disappointment. Esp if Enhland win it.


----------



## Captainron (Aug 19, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			It's a bit of a shame for you that SA are a bit rubbish at Rugby, as you are bound for disappointment. Esp if Enhland win it.
		
Click to expand...

If England win it then I will buy LQ KFC for a month!


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 19, 2019)

Captainron said:



			If England win it then I will buy LQ KFC for a month!
		
Click to expand...

Could get expensive!


----------



## Canary_Yellow (Aug 19, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			Have not seen his goals from yesterday but against Liverpool he missed good opportunities.
Letâ€™s see if he does it against the big teams
		
Click to expand...

Which opportunities did he miss against Liverpool? He scored with a great first touch and finish with more or less his only chance.

Stipermann missed a couple, if that is what you were thinking of?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 19, 2019)

Funny. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49394121


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 19, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Funny. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49394121

Click to expand...

At least he didn't lie, like that time Balotelli didn't fancy the cold on an away tie in Russia, and came off saying it was the 'wrong type of grass' giving him a reaction or something.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 19, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			At least he didn't lie, like that time Balotelli didn't fancy the cold on an away tie in Russia, and came off saying it was the 'wrong type of grass' giving him a reaction or something. 

Click to expand...

Hope the agent didn't get his commission. Surely even a footballer would have the sense to look at where he's going to play and failing that someone could have told him it gets a tad nippy in Sweden. Not even winter yet over there


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 19, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Hope the agent didn't get his commission. Surely even a footballer would have the sense to look at where he's going to play and failing that someone could have told him it gets a tad nippy in Sweden. Not even winter yet over there
		
Click to expand...

I guess he had never experienced proper cold before. Let's say he'd never left Africa in his life, someone offers you a contract and says it will be cold over there, you think "I'm sure I can handle that". Before getting over there and realising he can't hack it.


----------



## Slime (Aug 19, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Funny. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49394121

Click to expand...

He should have joined a club in Greenland!
There are just a few teams and their season lasts just one week!


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 19, 2019)

Really impressed with the back line at man united this season

De gea we all know is a very good keeper 

Shaw before his injury was one of the most exciting young players around..

Maguire has always impressed me

Lindolph I have always thought a player was in there just needs a partner 

Wan baisse was class last season

3/5 of them English, so playing together week in week out helps everyone


----------



## Slime (Aug 19, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Really impressed with the back line at man united this season

*De Gea* we all know is a very good keeper
*Shaw* before his injury was one of the most exciting young players around..
*Maguire* has always impressed me
*Lindelof* I have always thought a player was in there just needs a partner
*Wan-Bissaka* was class last season

3/5 of them English, so playing together week in week out helps everyone
		
Click to expand...

As I said a while back, I can't think of many better back fives in the Prem ............................. if any!


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 19, 2019)

Slime said:



			As I said a while back, I can't think of many better back fives in the Prem ............................. if any!
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™d argue Liverpoolâ€™s back 5 are better 

But after them citeh are either level or worse than those 5


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 19, 2019)

Slime said:



			As I said a while back, I can't think of many better back fives in the Prem ............................. if any!
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

One back line in the Prem is the best in Europe - and itâ€™s not Unitedâ€™s


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 19, 2019)

Liverpool's back 5 have looked pretty dodgy this season so far. Left-side of Robertson and VVD is the best in the world, but the right side has been a shambles. City's strongest back 5 of Ederson, Laporte, Stones, Walker/Cancelo and Mendy is the best in the league.

Think DDG, Wan-Bissaka, Maguire and Shaw are all excellent but still not convinced by Lindelof. He's solid for large parts of games but still has those super dodgy moments in games (like he did when he completely miscued one tonight) that make him a liability. Think that back-5 have a lot of potential though, Maguire looks an excellent signing.

Everton's defence is low-key up there with the best in the league, or it has been in 2019 so far anyway. Not conceded at home in the league since the start of Feb, 2nd fewest goals conceded from Open Play since Jan, 2nd most clean sheets in 2019 and no goals conceded in the 2 games to start this season. Silva's done an excellent job turning our defence around this calendar year after a dodgy end to 2018.

Also, so dumb Pogba taking that pen instead of Rashford. Pogba's recent record is pretty dreadful and Rashfords penalty last week was so good.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 19, 2019)

Pogba ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜


----------



## TheDiablo (Aug 19, 2019)

I think Liverpool and Citys defence are closer than most Pool fans would accept. VVD does take them a notch above though. City dont get tested nearly as much with the quality of their midfield (offensively and defensively) so not black and white to judge. I'd still take 2, possibly even 3 from City in a composite back 5.

TAA should really be a midfielder. Makes the same errors defensively against good wingers and signs Klopp doesn't trust him in certain games already. He's technically exceptional, arguably their best so he should be on the ball as much as possible. Especially as their midfield isn't exactly full of technical ability. Pep would almost certainly be playing him as a midfielder by now. 

United have been so poor at the back for so long that it's easy to see why the fans are getting excited this year - the 2 signings plus a fit Shaw is a huge improvement, but time will tell if they can form a partnership over a season. Even then it's not got the quality of the above 2, but potential to be level with Spurs on that front.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 19, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			I think Liverpool and Citys defence are closer than most Pool fans would accept. VVD does take them a notch above though. City dont get tested nearly as much with the quality of their midfield (offensively and defensively) so not black and white to judge. I'd still take 2, possibly even 3 from City in a composite back 5.

TAA should really be a midfielder. Makes the same errors defensively against good wingers and signs Klopp doesn't trust him in certain games already. He's technically exceptional, arguably their best so he should be on the ball as much as possible. Especially as their midfield isn't exactly full of technical ability. Pep would almost certainly be playing him as a midfielder by now.

United have been so poor at the back for so long that it's easy to see why the fans are getting excited this year - the 2 signings plus a fit Shaw is a huge improvement, but time will tell if they can form a partnership over a season. Even then it's not got the quality of the above 2, but potential to be level with Spurs on that front.
		
Click to expand...

City and Liverpoolâ€™s defence is very close - very , and for me itâ€™s just VVD that edges it 

I can certainly see what you say about TAA but the way Liverpool play he is virtually a winger/midfielder anyway , a lot of his covering is done by the likes of Fabinho etc but thatâ€™s not fluid at the moment.

In a composite of the back 5 

Itâ€™s a close choice for the GK for most but Alisson has been key for us 

Left back imo there is a clear winner in Robbo same with VVD at CB 

The other two places - Laporte at the moment but if Gomez gets back up to form thatâ€™s a close call 

And at right back - Walker or TAA - Walker would prob shade it for most 


But I donâ€™t see any UTD player getting into either back line with the exception of maybe Shaw at City


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 19, 2019)

Ederson, TAA, Laporte, VVD, Robertson for me.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 19, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			I think Liverpool and Citys defence are closer than most Pool fans would accept. VVD does take them a notch above though. City dont get tested nearly as much with the quality of their midfield (offensively and defensively) so not black and white to judge. I'd still take 2, possibly even 3 from City in a composite back 5.

TAA should really be a midfielder. Makes the same errors defensively against good wingers and signs Klopp doesn't trust him in certain games already. He's technically exceptional, arguably their best so he should be on the ball as much as possible. Especially as their midfield isn't exactly full of technical ability. Pep would almost certainly be playing him as a midfielder by now.

United have been so poor at the back for so long that it's easy to see why the fans are getting excited this year - the 2 signings plus a fit Shaw is a huge improvement, but time will tell if they can form a partnership over a season. Even then it's not got the quality of the above 2, but potential to be level with Spurs on that front.
		
Click to expand...

Trent is still only a young lad 19/20, I don't think he's as bad as he's being made out to be neither. He certainly doesn't look out of place. 

Yes he's made mistakes but those mistakes are few and far between.

I'm certain he'll have a superb career as a great RB. 

Klopp trusted him enough to play in 2 European Cup Finals, arguably the biggest games in Club Football.


----------



## Slime (Aug 19, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

*One back line in the Prem is the best in Europe* - and itâ€™s not Unitedâ€™s
		
Click to expand...

Keep telling yourself, Phil, keep telling yourself.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 19, 2019)

Not seen tonights game but its kicking off on manc evening news with Utd fans asking whats the difference between the sterling goal last week ruled out with VAR. And tonights Wolves goal Not ruled out with both offsides involving a shoulder.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 19, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Ederson, TAA, Laporte, VVD, Robertson for me.
		
Click to expand...

Oddly enough Dan i kept an eye on young kev aka zinchenko on saturday. I have never seen him
So far forward. Not just left wing but in field. A very under rated player. I wouldnt have him In your four though


----------



## TheDiablo (Aug 19, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Trent is still only a young lad 19/20, I don't think he's as bad as he's being made out to be neither. He certainly doesn't look out of place.

Yes he's made mistakes but those mistakes are few and far between.

I'm certain he'll have a superb career as a great RB.

Klopp trusted him enough to play in 2 European Cup Finals, arguably the biggest games in Club Football.
		
Click to expand...

Agree that he doesn't look out of place, far from it. Even if he does end up at CM the experience in the first team at RB would be infinitely better than spells on loan at CM. 

The CL final selection a bit of a red herring - a couple of years back you had no choice and last year Spurs don't play with a left winger so he wasn't going to be tested in ways he's previously struggled. 

I know full backs are more important than ever, but I just think his attributes are far better placed in midfield, which also then disguises the few weaknesses he has, as well as giving you strength in an area I think you really lack. 

I'm sure if he continues at RB he will have a fantastic career too.


----------



## davemc1 (Aug 19, 2019)

Slime said:



			Keep telling yourself, Phil, keep telling yourself.
		
Click to expand...

Who is it then bro?


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 19, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			Agree that he doesn't look out of place, far from it. Even if he does end up at CM the experience in the first team at RB would be infinitely better than spells on loan at CM.

*The CL final selection a bit of a red herring* - a couple of years back you had no choice and last year Spurs don't play with a left winger so he wasn't going to be tested in ways he's previously struggled.

I know full backs are more important than ever, but I just think his attributes are far better placed in midfield, which also then disguises the few weaknesses he has, as well as giving you strength in an area I think you really lack.

I'm sure if he continues at RB he will have a fantastic career too.
		
Click to expand...

Disagree with the highlighted bit. If Klopp has any doubts about him he doesnâ€™t play in those games. 

He played 29 of 38 PL games last season, all 11 CL games and was injured for about 4/5 PL games. 

Heâ€™s not the finished article, far from it, but heâ€™s improving week to week.


----------



## JamesR (Aug 19, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Who is it then bro?
		
Click to expand...

Burnley ðŸ‘


----------



## Slime (Aug 20, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Who is it then bro?
		
Click to expand...

I guess we'll find out at the end of the season.
We can only have opinions as it's a totally subjective discussion.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 20, 2019)

Think Neville has a point here https://www.skysports.com/football/...ester-united-penalty-confusion-in-wolves-draw 

Seemed to be a total lack of communication and leadership and given Pogba's record I wouldn't want him anywhere near a penalty at the moment


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 20, 2019)

Slime said:



			Keep telling yourself, Phil, keep telling yourself.
		
Click to expand...

I just need to look at the defensive record over the past 12 months and that defensive record enabling the team to win the biggest club Comp. There isnâ€™t one Man Utd player from the back 5 that would get in Liverpoolâ€™s and prob Cityâ€™s. Man Utdâ€™s back line are around Spurs level. And I expect if you ask around most certainly wouldnâ€™t have Utd backline as the top.


----------



## Beezerk (Aug 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There isnâ€™t one Man Utd player from the back 5 that would get in Liverpoolâ€™s an.d prob Cityâ€™s.
		
Click to expand...

Maguire vs Matip
Wan Bissaka vs Arnold

Pick the bones out of those, too close to call I'd say.

PS.

De Gea vs Adrian


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I just need to look at the defensive record over the past 12 months and that defensive record enabling the team to win the biggest club Comp. There isnâ€™t one Man Utd player from the back 5 that would get in Liverpoolâ€™s and prob Cityâ€™s. Man Utdâ€™s back line are around Spurs level. And I expect if you ask around most certainly wouldnâ€™t have Utd backline as the top.
		
Click to expand...

Granted last year De Gea wasn't his usual self, but if he goes back to how he has been in the last 5 years then he is easily as good as any in the league, If not better.
I'd also say that whilst i don't think he is at VVD level, Maguire could certainly compete with Gomez/Stones/Otamendi in regards to being the 2nd pick cb at either of the top 2 teams. He is after all, picked ahead of both of them for england.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I just need to look at the defensive record over the past 12 months and that defensive record enabling the team to win the biggest club Comp. There isnâ€™t one Man Utd player from the back 5 that would get in Liverpoolâ€™s and prob Cityâ€™s. Man Utdâ€™s back line are around Spurs level. And I expect if you ask around most certainly wouldnâ€™t have Utd backline as the top.
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™d argue Maguire would get in both

Both city and Liverpool have 1 stand out central defender (vvd and Laporte) the rest are replaceable 

Maguire could easily slot in either teams


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 20, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			Maguire vs Matip
Wan Bissaka vs Arnold

Pick the bones out of those, too close to call I'd say.
		
Click to expand...

Arnold and Maguire for me. 

Wan bissaka is a better defender imo, but the top teams need more than just solid defensive work from their fullbacks these days.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 20, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Granted last year De Gea wasn't his usual self, but if he goes back to how he has been in the last 5 years then he is easily as good as any in the league, If not better.
I'd also say that whilst i don't think he is at VVD level, Maguire could certainly compete with Gomez/Stones/Otamendi in regards to being the 2nd pick cb at either of the top 2 teams. He is after all, picked ahead of both of them for england.
		
Click to expand...

Would still have Alisson but if De Gea does get back to his level itâ€™s a hell of a lot closer

Before Gomez got injured he was also being picked for England to play alongside Maguire - and I know which I would prefer to play alongside VVD ( would even have Matip over him ) , Maguire is still for me overrated , he suddenly seems to have gone up in peoples ratings just because he went for Â£80mil 

He may squeeze into City but I would still prefer Stones if he could rediscover his form as well


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would still have Alisson but if De Gea does get back to his level itâ€™s a hell of a lot closer

Before Gomez got injured he was also being picked for England to play alongside Maguire - and I know which I would prefer to play alongside VVD ( would even have Matip over him ) , Maguire is still for me overrated , he suddenly seems to have gone up in peoples ratings just because he went for Â£80mil

He may squeeze into City but I would still prefer Stones if he could rediscover his form as well
		
Click to expand...

What form is that then? Stones has always been rash and only went for so high because of his passing which citeh really wanted. The ability on the ball

He is an average cb


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would still have Alisson but if De Gea does get back to his level itâ€™s a hell of a lot closer

Before Gomez got injured he was also being picked for England to play alongside Maguire - and I know which I would prefer to play alongside VVD ( would even have Matip over him ) , Maguire is still for me overrated , he suddenly seems to have gone up in peoples ratings just because he went for Â£80mil

He may squeeze into City but I would still prefer Stones if he could rediscover his form as well
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure Stones has ever really had form tbh. 

From what i've seen of Gomez he still has a lot of work to do, when he and TAA are alonside one another the inexperience shows. 

I don;'t rate Maguire massively and think Â£80m was ott, but atm he is Englands clear first choice CB. He may not be yours, but i don't think many neutrals would pick Gomez first. If he has a full season this year, that may change.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 20, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I'm not sure Stones has ever really had form tbh.

From what i've seen of Gomez he still has a lot of work to do, when he and TAA are alonside one another the inexperience shows.

I don;'t rate Maguire massively and think Â£80m was ott, but atm he is Englands clear first choice CB. He may not be yours, but i don't think many neutrals would pick Gomez first. *If he has a full season this year, that may change.*

Click to expand...


Thatâ€™s the big thing for Gomez - needs to get through a season without breaking a bone , if he can manage that then he will imo be the no 1 CB for England - he was excellent for us until that broken foot.


----------



## Slime (Aug 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Thatâ€™s the big thing for Gomez - *needs to get through a season without breaking a bone* , if he can manage that then he will imo be the no 1 CB for England - *he was excellent for us until that broken foot.*

Click to expand...

...................... and Maguire has always been excellent for both Leicester and England.
He's also, so far, not put a foot wrong for United and doesn't seem to break bones.
I'd take him over Gomez all day long and suspect most non L'pool fan would too.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 20, 2019)

Would also take Maguire over Gomez, especially on this seasons' evidence so far. Maguire has looked calm, assured and commanding, Gomez has looked like a leaky tap. Not tracking runners allowing them to drift between him and TAA, not spatially aware, been pretty sloppy so far this season. Might be that he's still getting back to full fitness, but right now I'd not only take Maguire over Gomez, but I'd take Matip over him as well.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 20, 2019)

Slime said:



			...................... and Maguire has always been excellent for both Leicester and England.
He's also, so far, not put a foot wrong for United and doesn't seem to break bones.
I'd take him over Gomez all day long and suspect most non L'pool fan would too.
		
Click to expand...

Maguire has on many occasions been caught out by forwards with quick feet , he is strong in the air , organised and leads the line - go at him with pace and quick feet and left for dead , happened many times for Leicester , England and last night one of the Wolves forwards ghosted past him and left him on his arse. Quick forwards are going to glide past him regularly.

Here is the video- Top CBâ€™s donâ€™t get beaten the easily 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....-by-raul-jimenez-during-wolves-11-man-utd?amp


----------



## Canary_Yellow (Aug 20, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Not seen tonights game but its kicking off on manc evening news with Utd fans asking whats the difference between the sterling goal last week ruled out with VAR. And tonights Wolves goal Not ruled out with both offsides involving a shoulder.
		
Click to expand...

The difference is pretty simple; the Wolves player wasn't offside, Sterling was offside.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ootball-news/man-utd-wolves-var-city-16782323

Look at the picture; the black line is the shoulder of the Wolves player, the yellow line is where the ball is. Therefore the Wolves player is behind the ball so cannot be offside. It doesn't matter where the United defender is. Even if you move the red line further down his arm, he's still behind the ball and therefore onside.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 20, 2019)

Think Liverpool have looked more solid at the back than City over the last couple of years but last year City were excellent. Of the back four Laporte was massive for us. But whoever stepped up n alongside looked comfortable. Be it Stones, Otamendi and even Komoany. Rb with Walker he was shaky, very shaky. Ave seen him
This year and he looked like Walker of a couple of years ago, until he gets outjumped and out muscled by someone who comes On and scores with his first touch. Hmmm Walker of old. Although Zincenko is doing really well at lb. he has not really been tested and i am gobsmacked. Thing is re City Pep has players who play rigidly to a system so whoever plays in what position. Even when it changes through the game, the players know what is expected of them. 
Re City, i kinda expect a response from them this weekend. Could be a long 90 mins for Bournemouth. Watch this space.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maguire has on many occasions been caught out by forwards with quick feet , he is strong in the air , organised and leads the line - go at him with pace and quick feet and left for dead , happened many times for Leicester , England and last night one of the Wolves forwards ghosted past him and left him on his arse. Quick forwards are going to glide past him regularly.

Here is the video- Top CBâ€™s donâ€™t get beaten the easily

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.givemesport.com/1498558-harry-maguire-was-dribbled-past-by-raul-jimenez-during-wolves-11-man-utd?amp

Click to expand...

Itâ€™s the type of CB he is and thatâ€™s why his partner is there

Vidic could be caught out by quick feet thatâ€™s why Rio was there

Terry had carvaliho at Chelsea and Rio at international level


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 20, 2019)

Amazing, you move for Â£85mil, someone dribbles past you once and somebody writes an entire article about it. Ridiculous.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 20, 2019)

ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‚


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 28026


ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

29 years since Liverpool last won the trophy they actually want to win..


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 21, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			29 years since Liverpool last won the trophy they actually want to win..
		
Click to expand...

All those trophies and they still obsess about their neighbours. Trophies mustn't bring contentment ðŸ¤”


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 21, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			All those trophies and they still obsess about their neighbours. Trophies mustn't bring contentment ðŸ¤”
		
Click to expand...

1990 since Liverpool won a league title so similarly many under 25 won't remember that either. Got to love their concern for their neighbours though


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			29 years since Liverpool last won the trophy they actually want to win..
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ we want to win all trophies ðŸ‘


Lord Tyrion said:



			All those trophies and they still obsess about their neighbours. Trophies mustn't bring contentment ðŸ¤”
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ thatâ€™s funny from a bluenose - whatâ€™s their favourite song now ? Iâ€™ll let you guess


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 21, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ we want to win all trophies ðŸ‘


ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ thatâ€™s funny from a bluenose - whatâ€™s their favourite song now ? Iâ€™ll let you guess
		
Click to expand...

You must be bored.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 21, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			You must be bored.
		
Click to expand...

Obsessed. These posts come up quite often. We are quite relaxed about what our neighbours do, we can only affect them twice a year. Winning trophies doesn't seem to bring some reds a good nights sleep though, they are still seeing blue


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 21, 2019)

Liverpool fans are often quick to point out that Man Utd sing a lot of songs about our rivals as if itâ€™s a bad thing to have rivalry in football. ðŸ¤·ðŸ»â€â™‚ï¸


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Obsessed. These posts come up quite often.* We are quite relaxed about what our neighbours do, *we can only affect them twice a year. Winning trophies doesn't seem to bring some reds a good nights sleep though, they are still seeing blue 

Click to expand...


Itâ€™s quite sweet that you actually believe that ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....react-to-everton-fans-chanting-about-them/amp


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 21, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Liverpool fans are often quick to point out that Man Utd sing a lot of songs about our rivals as if itâ€™s a bad thing to have rivalry in football. ðŸ¤·ðŸ»â€â™‚ï¸
		
Click to expand...

Read a very good piece from a neutral reporter last year about the rivalry between Liverpool and Utd, Going back decades. What started out as good rivalry became, lets say naughty.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 21, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49415988 

So who would you like to see come off the bench for your side.


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 21, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Read a very good piece from a neutral reporter last year about the rivalry between Liverpool and Utd, Going back decades. What started out as good rivalry became, lets say naughty.
		
Click to expand...

Oh, it can be nasty and both sides do it. I've seen Liverpool fans get offended by songs about Heysel and Hillsborough who have no problems singing about Munich and vice versa (edited so I don't think I'm aiming at one team!). Hypocrisy is rife in football and it's not always the minority. I've sung some terrible stuff in the past and was surrounded by thousands doing the same. Too many people are quick to say "They aren't real fans". They absolutely are real fans, they're just real fans who will push that envelope of decency.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 21, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49415988

So who would you like to see come off the bench for your side.
		
Click to expand...

I'd still rather Poch at centre back than Juan Foyth to be honest. I'm sure Lamps could still do a job in the Chelsea team as well. And Solskjaer was famously a super-sub, probably doesn't have the legs anymore after all those injuries.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 21, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Oh, it can be nasty and both sides do it. I've seen Liverpool fans get offended by songs about Heysel and Hillsborough who have no problems singing about Munich. Hypocrisy is rife in football and it's not always the minority. I've sung some terrible stuff in the past and was surrounded by thousands doing the same. Too many people are quick to say "They aren't real fans". They absolutely are real fans, they're just real fans who will push that envelope of decency.
		
Click to expand...

It's just that pack mentality isn't it. Thousands of people, if they're honest, are just like you and would sing along to all kinds of words they would never say as an individual to someone's face.


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 21, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			It's just that pack mentality isn't it. Thousands of people, if they're honest, are just like you and would sing along to all kinds of words they would never say as an individual to someone's face.
		
Click to expand...

Definitely. In that moment you aren't actually thinking about the people who suffered or died; you're just trying to upset or anger the opposition.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 21, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Oh, it can be nasty and both sides do it. I've seen Liverpool fans get offended by songs about Heysel and Hillsborough who have no problems singing about Munich and vice versa (edited so I don't think I'm aiming at one team!). Hypocrisy is rife in football and it's not always the minority. I've sung some terrible stuff in the past and was surrounded by thousands doing the same. Too many people are quick to say "They aren't real fans". They absolutely are real fans, they're just real fans who will push that envelope of decency.
		
Click to expand...

From Personal experience i can assure you your not the only one. Read a piece about the munich disaster. Very in depth. Re the plane the position of the wheels. All very relevant to the snow on the floor. Quite moving. Frank Swift a City legend killed in the disaster. Plus talking to me dad who remembers it as yesterday. Not mentioned Munich since. Ironically i got two tickets to the 50th ( i think) anniversary game at old trafford. The game was remembered as â€œ A City Unitedâ€. It was moving. The football fans stood as one. It lasted all of 20 mins when me and lad got threw out coz lad cheered when we scored. It don't go down to well when your sat with the Utd lot. Still Got the memorial programme somewhere.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 21, 2019)

Some folk are cruel


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 21, 2019)

https://www.football365.com/news/holloway-in-bizarre-brexit-rant-over-city-spurs-var-decision 

Well, this is truly incredible. Ian Holloway the gift that keeps on giving.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 21, 2019)

Orikoru said:



https://www.football365.com/news/holloway-in-bizarre-brexit-rant-over-city-spurs-var-decision 

Well, this is truly incredible. Ian Holloway the gift that keeps on giving. 

Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ apart from the last two sentences he was on a roll and right


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 21, 2019)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49412873

Only one problem with this. Most of the football is boring and crap.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 21, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ apart from the last two sentences he was on a roll and right
		
Click to expand...

That was the funniest thing for me, the way he his brain just made this huge illogical leap with no explanation how he got there.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 21, 2019)

Some folk are harsh


----------



## IainP (Aug 21, 2019)

Orikoru said:



https://www.football365.com/news/holloway-in-bizarre-brexit-rant-over-city-spurs-var-decision 

Well, this is truly incredible. Ian Holloway the gift that keeps on giving. 

Click to expand...

It is not unusual for pundits and sports people to have bets/challenges to work things into their time with the mic. Might that have happened here, or is that giving too much credit?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 22, 2019)

Never Forget, RIP Rhys.
Fantastic mark of respect from LFC.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1164449300216197120


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 22, 2019)

Kompany is no longer managing Anderlecht, after 4 games and no wins. He'll continue to play and captain the side. To be honest being a player/manager must be incredibly difficult. Trying to oversee the whole game tactically, while also focusing on your own performance, and his case, marshalling the back four as well! Bit crazy for him to take it on as his first management role I think.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 22, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Never Forget, RIP Rhys.
Fantastic mark of respect from LFC.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1164449300216197120

Click to expand...

Jeez Twelve years ago dosnt seem that long.
Hope his family are celebrating him.
RIP.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 23, 2019)

ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 23, 2019)

ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 23, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

But thereâ€™s lots more never seen City win the Champions Leauge.
Sorry could not bite!!!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 23, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

VAR is like busses one will come along soon followed by another and another.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Aug 23, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

You poor thing, you're so hard done by.......


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 23, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			You poor thing, you're so hard done by.......

Click to expand...

Cheers bm ðŸ˜


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 23, 2019)

Iwobi in an Everton shirt ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜


----------



## fundy (Aug 23, 2019)

Rumour that Dale has sold Bury a couple of hours before the deadline, have to hope for their fans its true!


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 23, 2019)

fundy said:



			Rumour that Dale has sold Bury a couple of hours before the deadline, have to hope for their fans its true!
		
Click to expand...

Hope them and Bolton pull through.


----------



## Fish (Aug 24, 2019)

Seems even with VAR itâ€™s ok to stamp ðŸ˜¡


----------



## Fish (Aug 24, 2019)

Iâ€™m flyin like an Eagle ðŸ˜œðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ’™


----------



## chrisd (Aug 24, 2019)

Good now us Mighty Eagles are playing other mid table clubs, at least we can pick up points ðŸ˜‰


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 24, 2019)

Good to see us 4 points better off than this stage last season lol
Haller off the mark aswell

Norwich next week. Fingers crossed pukki doesnâ€™t destroy us


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 24, 2019)

Fish said:



			Iâ€™m flyin like an Eagle ðŸ˜œðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ’™
		
Click to expand...

Quite a good end to me holiday. ðŸ˜


----------



## Slime (Aug 24, 2019)

Fish said:



			Seems even with VAR itâ€™s ok to stamp ðŸ˜¡
		
Click to expand...

............... and ignore someone being wrestled to the ground in the box!
............... and ignore blatant contact and book a player for diving, although that was the ref's blatant error!


----------



## Slime (Aug 24, 2019)

chrisd said:



			Good now us Mighty Eagles are playing other mid table clubs, at least we can pick up points ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

Fair point, but why is one of your players wearing black and carrying a whistle?


----------



## chrisd (Aug 24, 2019)

Slime said:



			Fair point, but why is one of your players wearing black and carrying a whistle?
		
Click to expand...

Someone has to do it ........... how many years was it Ferguson's job ??

( knew youd be the 1st to bite )


----------



## Slime (Aug 24, 2019)

chrisd said:



			Someone has to do it ........... how many years was it Ferguson's job ??

( *knew youd be the 1st to bite* )
		
Click to expand...

Not biting. I agree that Utd are a mid table team this season.
Certainly until January.


----------



## fundy (Aug 24, 2019)

VVD not so comfy against the pace of Pepe (shame he hasnt brought his shooting boots)

Encouraging signs when we have the ball at least


----------



## fundy (Aug 24, 2019)

still awful without it though


----------



## howbow88 (Aug 24, 2019)

Easy win today  

Old Trafford is losing it's fear factor...


----------



## Piece (Aug 24, 2019)

Did well to give that game away. Can't defend like that, as Hansen once said


----------



## fundy (Aug 24, 2019)

cos we needed another clown centre half sigh


----------



## Fish (Aug 24, 2019)

fundy said:



			cos we needed another clown centre half sigh 

Click to expand...

I told you, heâ€™ll get more red cards and give more penalties away than he will give you assists.


----------



## fundy (Aug 24, 2019)

Fish said:



			I told you, heâ€™ll get more red cards and give more penalties away than he will give you assists.
		
Click to expand...

I dont care how many assists my centre halfs get, zero is plenty. Id just like a couple who know how to defend but yet again we havent bothered recruiting any. For some reason Torreira is still sitting on the bench whilst those not fit to lace his boots run about like headless chickens too


----------



## fundy (Aug 24, 2019)

get him a clowns nose ffs, soo bad


----------



## fundy (Aug 24, 2019)

so now you bring torreira on at 3-0 down when the horse has bolted lol

all summer to buy a centre half and this is what we got sigh

oh well, looks like were aiming for the europa again


----------



## sam85 (Aug 24, 2019)

fundy said:



			so now you bring torreira on at 3-0 down when the horse has bolted lol

all summer to buy a centre half and this is what we got sigh

oh well, looks like were aiming for the europa again
		
Click to expand...

As poor as arsenal may well be, they're well and truly in the hunt for champions league this year. Granted that's more to do with other sides inefficiencies this year.


----------



## sam85 (Aug 24, 2019)

Liverpool look like they've barely got out of 2nd gear so far this season and yet they're still gonna be sat here with 9 points out of 9, still think City will win the league comfortably but the rest of the league are miles off at the moment


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 24, 2019)

No complaints against Liverpool at Anfield today they completely bossed the game.

The second hardest game in our season and it came a bit early for us, we donâ€™t looked a settled side yet and new players need more time to bed in.

Personally I would have liked to have seen Torreira start but he must be short of match fitness I guess.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 24, 2019)

Slime said:



			Not biting. *I agree that Utd are a mid table team this season.*
Certainly until January.
		
Click to expand...

Surely with the â€œproclaimedâ€ best back 5 you must see the team higher than mid table ?


sam85 said:



			As poor as arsenal may well be, they're well and truly in the hunt for champions league this year. Granted that's more to do with other sides inefficiencies this year.
		
Click to expand...

From looking at the 3teams I believe fighting for the 4th spot Arsenal have they potential to be clear of their rivals - the manager needs to find a way to get that front three on the pitch , Torreria to play each week along and get the best out of Ceballos. They are going to concede goals but they look the most dangerous out of them , Utd and Chelsea. Could be a great battle - especially if Wolves and maybe Leicester creep into it


----------



## sam85 (Aug 24, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Surely with the â€œproclaimedâ€ best back 5 you must see the team higher than mid table ?


From looking at the 3teams I believe fighting for the 4th spot Arsenal have they potential to be clear of their rivals - the manager needs to find a way to get that front three on the pitch , Torreria to play each week along and get the best out of Ceballos. They are going to concede goals but they look the most dangerous out of them , Utd and Chelsea. Could be a great battle - especially if Wolves and maybe Leicester creep into it
		
Click to expand...

I'd chuck spurs into the mix there and say they're all fighting for the other 2 champions league spots and I think they've all got the potential to beat each other and even cause City and Liverpool problems. Wolves I think Europa league will take its toll on their squad and Leicester aren't quite there so any 2 from Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea and United for me. Based on no real logic other than gut feeling I reckon Chelsea will surprise a few playing the youngsters and get 3rd place.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 24, 2019)

Rashford tying his laces before taking a penalty


----------



## fundy (Aug 24, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Rashford tying his laces before taking a penaly
		
Click to expand...

same boots Luiz was wearing for us today


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 24, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Rashford tying his laces before taking a penalty
		
Click to expand...

I like his Rolex.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 24, 2019)

Is he getting a reputation or is OGS trying to deflect attention away from another poor performance https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49461801


----------



## sam85 (Aug 24, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Is he getting a reputation or is OGS trying to deflect attention away from another poor performance https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49461801

Click to expand...

Hard to say really, Match of the day isn't on for another 2 hours ðŸ¤”


----------



## fundy (Aug 24, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Is he getting a reputation or is OGS trying to deflect attention away from another poor performance https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49461801

Click to expand...


or is Homie trying to deflect from his side having problems in brothel today 

fwiw last weeks a dive, not seen todays but is harsh on all accounts


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 24, 2019)

Piece said:



			Did well to give that game away. Can't defend like that, as Hansen once said
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™d say your shooting boots cost you just as much 

23 shots, only 3 on target 

To our 16 shots with 10 on target


----------



## Slime (Aug 24, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Surely with the â€œproclaimedâ€ best back 5 you must see the team higher than mid table ?
		
Click to expand...

I can almost taste the sarcasm, at which you're not always that good!
They may have, in my opinion, a superb back five ........................ but they're behind what?
A remarkably poor midfield, that's what, and, if this isn't sorted during the next window, a top six would be a result.
The midfield is Pogba plus youthful inexperience. Just not good enough.
The Glazers should hang their heads in shame.


----------



## Slime (Aug 24, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



*Is he getting a reputation *or is OGS trying to deflect attention away from another poor performance https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49461801

Click to expand...

Yes, he is getting a reputation, but what can he do when he gets booked for being fouled?


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 25, 2019)

The unbearable  100%  unbeaten Redmen top of the league , if only they had Wan Bissaka, Lindelof and Maguire as their defence........they'd stil be top of the league ðŸ˜ðŸ˜


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 25, 2019)

Slime said:



			I can almost taste the sarcasm, at which you're not always that good!
They may have, in my opinion, a superb back five ........................ but they're behind what?
*A remarkably poor midfield, that's what, and, if this isn't sorted during the next window, a top six would be a result.
The midfield is Pogba plus youthful inexperience*. Just not good enough.
The Glazers should hang their heads in shame.
		
Click to expand...

And the overrated Lingard and McDominate ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 25, 2019)

Arsenals no8 and Pepe will be great players in 2 seasons time. 

No 8. Struggled with the pace of the game but looked to have all the other attributes you want in a midfielder. Pepe was a danger, lacks a final ball but that will come with experience


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 25, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Rashford tying his laces before taking a penalty
		
Click to expand...

We know youâ€™ve found some new website that supplies you with crap memes but feel free to keep them to yourself...


----------



## Imurg (Aug 25, 2019)

fundy said:



			cos we needed another clown centre half sigh 

Click to expand...

Seriously....what were Arsenal thinking buying Luiz..?
Just seen his contributions on SSN......


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 25, 2019)

How good is it to see a referee stand up to the Manc players constantly surrounding the ref at Old Trafford everytime they had an appeal - even better to see a team score against them in Fergie time ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 25, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How good is it to see a referee stand up to the Manc players constantly surrounding the ref at Old Trafford everytime they had an appeal - even better to see a team score against them in Fergie time ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

The ref was awful though. We shouldâ€™ve had three penalties in total. Not sure weâ€™d have scored them though...  and James booked for being kicked. Meh.


----------



## Piece (Aug 25, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Iâ€™d say your shooting boots cost you just as much

23 shots, only 3 on target

To our 16 shots with 10 on target
		
Click to expand...

Cant argue with that really. One team scored their tap in the other didn't.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 25, 2019)

Piece said:



			Cant argue with that really. One team scored their tap in the other didn't.
		
Click to expand...

Gray scores a great finish yet misses a tap in

I was certainly glad when deeney was ruled out. He flat out bullyâ€™s us every time 

Haller scored both his tap ins, even the overhead kick was a simple open net finish really


----------



## Piece (Aug 25, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Gray scores a great finish yet misses a tap in

I was certainly glad when deeney was ruled out. He flat out bullyâ€™s us every time

Haller scored both his tap ins, even the overhead kick was a simple open net finish really
		
Click to expand...

Haller was in the right place at the right time, sign of decent scorer.

If all decent chances went in, the score would have been 5-5. Both sides look tidy going forward, not so much in defence.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 25, 2019)

Imurg said:



			Seriously....what were Arsenal thinking buying Luiz..?
Just seen his contributions on SSN......

Click to expand...


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 25, 2019)

Piece said:



			Haller was in the right place at the right time, sign of decent scorer.

If all decent chances went in, the score would have been 5-5. Both sides look tidy going forward, not so much in defence.
		
Click to expand...

Our defence does worry me. However stick balbuena back in for Ogbonna and we should shore up a bit now Arthur is back on the left 

Your right about haller. Gutted I benched him on fantasy football. If he can get 20 goals this season it would be outstanding for us. We donâ€™t have strikers that normally get over 10!


----------



## GG26 (Aug 25, 2019)

Leicester up to third.  What a well taken half volley by Harvey Barnes for the winner.

Other strikers should take a leaf out of Vardyâ€™s book and learn how to shoot with either foot.  Too many waste opportunities dragging the ball back onto their stronger side when there isnâ€™t the time in the PL.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 25, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How good is it to see a referee stand up to the Manc players constantly surrounding the ref at Old Trafford everytime they had an appeal - *even better to see a team score against them in Fergie time* ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

It just had to be HIS team though didn't it ðŸ™„ðŸ™„

Have to agree with Kellfire, another poor Tierney performance, he definitely is the worst PL ref.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 25, 2019)

GG26 said:



			Leicester up to third.  What a well taken half volley by Harvey Barnes for the winner.

Other strikers should take a leaf out of Vardyâ€™s book and learn how to shoot with either foot.  Too many waste opportunities dragging the ball back onto their stronger side when there isnâ€™t the time in the PL.
		
Click to expand...

That was a bit better than a well taken volley. If the keeper had been behind it it would have taken him into the net as well. An absolute rocket of a shot.


----------



## Imurg (Aug 25, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Fergie time ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

According to a report up to the 2016 season Liverpool are top of the "FergieTime" goals list with 28, 7 clear of Arsenal and 10 clear of ManU who are in 5th place.
Maybe it should be called something else......


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 25, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			imo for years Utd always got them especially at home so itâ€™s good to see them not given
		
Click to expand...

Nonsense. Urban myth.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 25, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Nonsense. Urban myth.
		
Click to expand...

All big teams got them, not just utd. To think they didn't happen is to look through the lenses of a big team only.

VAR should reduce or eliminate those big team, home decisions though.


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 25, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			All big teams got them, not just utd. To think they didn't happen is to look through the lenses of a big team only.

VAR should reduce or eliminate those big team, home decisions though.
		
Click to expand...

We got lots of penalties because we attacked much more than most teams we played and with better players. Same with other â€œbigâ€ teams. If you spend more time in the opponents box you get more penalties.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 25, 2019)

Agreed. However you got more 50-50's, 40-60's etc. Away teams wouldn't get the 70-30's. It has always been the way with bigger teams playing against smaller ones. VAR should help to bring an end to this.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 25, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			We know youâ€™ve found some new website that supplies you with crap memes but feel free to keep them to yourself...
		
Click to expand...

Not found owt. I get them sent. Can understand your feeling upset. But we have had this conversation before. Banter. Thats why i also put City ones up.


----------



## fundy (Aug 25, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Not found owt. I get them sent. Can understand your feeling upset. But we have had this conversation before. Banter. Thats why i also put City ones up.
		
Click to expand...

This one made me chuckle


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1165565392057618433


----------



## Slime (Aug 25, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



*How good is it to see a referee stand up to the Manc players constantly surrounding the ref at Old Trafford everytime they had an appeal *- even better to see a team score against them in Fergie time ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

If he'd done his job properly there'd have been no need to surround him.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 25, 2019)

Slime said:



			If he'd done his job properly there'd have been no need to surround him.
		
Click to expand...

Shouldnâ€™t ever surround regardless of if he got it wrong - itâ€™s typical intimidating the ref that used to be a regular occurrence at Old Trafford, he had back up from the VAR who didnâ€™t overturn a single call he made.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1165614492413243393
Red or yellow ?


----------



## Slime (Aug 25, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Shouldnâ€™t ever surround regardless of if he got it wrong - itâ€™s typical intimidating the ref that used to be a regular occurrence at Old Trafford, he had back up from the VAR who didnâ€™t overturn a single call he made.
		
Click to expand...

..................... because L'pool players never surround a ref. 

Did you see the game?
Should United have had a penalty for Martial being wrestled to the ground?
Should Daniel James have been booked for being fouled?


----------



## chrisd (Aug 25, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			The ref was awful though. We shouldâ€™ve had three penalties in total. Not sure weâ€™d have scored them though...  and James booked for being kicked. Meh.
		
Click to expand...

You were beaten by the better team ðŸ¤«


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 25, 2019)

chrisd said:



			You were beaten by the better team ðŸ¤«
		
Click to expand...

We scored fewer goals but weâ€™ll play worse and win this season.


----------



## chrisd (Aug 25, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			We scored less goals but weâ€™ll play worse and win this season.
		
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure they'll play worse this season ðŸ˜‰


----------



## davemc1 (Aug 25, 2019)

Some free kick that ðŸ¤›


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 25, 2019)

Slime said:



			..................... because L'pool players never surround a ref. 

Did you see the game?
Should United have had a penalty for Martial being wrestled to the ground?
Should Daniel James have been booked for being fouled?
		
Click to expand...

I saw the highlights on match of the day 

The martial incident - 50/50 maybe at best but no guarantee, sometimes you get them sometimes you donâ€™t - if it was a clear penalty why didnâ€™t VAR change what the ref gave ? Hence why I said that 10 years ago when Fergie was about that would have been a penalty all day 

The James booking - unlucky for the lad because when it happened at real time it looked a dive but he was touched even if he did make a meal of it.


----------



## Jensen (Aug 25, 2019)

howbow88 said:



			Easy win today 

Old Trafford is losing it's fear factor...
		
Click to expand...

That went as soon as Fergie stepped down


----------



## Slime (Aug 25, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I saw the highlights on match of the day

The martial incident - *50/50 maybe at best* but no guarantee, sometimes you get them sometimes you donâ€™t - if it was a clear penalty why didnâ€™t VAR change what the ref gave ? Hence why I said that 10 years ago when Fergie was about that would have been a penalty all day

*The James booking - unlucky for the lad* because when it happened at real time it looked a dive but he was touched even if *he did make a meal of it.*

Click to expand...

Jeez, Phil, if those incidents had involved Salah you'd be singing a different song.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 25, 2019)

Slime said:



			Jeez, Phil, if those incidents had involved Salah you'd be singing a different song.
		
Click to expand...

Simple question - if it was such a clear penalty why didnâ€™t the change the decision on VAR ? Why did the pundits say it wasnâ€™t a clear penalty ? 

They even said they reviewed it on VAR and said it wasnâ€™t a â€œclear and obviousâ€ mistake. 

Salah got pulled back yesterday - stayed on his feet but got the penalty ðŸ‘


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 25, 2019)

VAR. so Silva has his foot stood on in the box. Goes to VAR. nowt given. For what reason ðŸ˜³


----------



## fundy (Aug 25, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			VAR. so Silva has his foot stood on in the box. Goes to VAR. nowt given. For what reason ðŸ˜³
		
Click to expand...

nope, got me. have no idea how thats not a penalty, didnt at the time and still dont


----------



## Slime (Aug 25, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Simple question -* if it was such a clear penalty why didnâ€™t the change the decision on VAR ?* Why did the pundits say it wasnâ€™t a clear penalty ?

They even said they reviewed it on VAR and said it wasnâ€™t a â€œclear and obviousâ€ mistake.

Salah got pulled back yesterday - stayed on his feet but got the penalty ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Because they got it wrong. It was both clear and obvious.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 25, 2019)

Every time we concede it comes from Sanchez and Rose's side. I don't think they talk to each other. Always a massive gap between them. Both of their positional sense is non-existent, Rose gets away with it when Vertonghen is playing next to him, because Vertonghen knows what he's bloody doing. Sanchez is all over the place and they don't communicate.


----------



## Jensen (Aug 25, 2019)

I wonder if Poch has kept Eriksen on the bench to indicate to Levy how important he is for us.
It will take a hell of a replacement


----------



## Jensen (Aug 25, 2019)

Good goal and finish from Toon.  Son, Moura and Kane are too close and narrow to each other


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 25, 2019)

Jensen said:



			I wonder if Poch has kept Eriksen on the bench to indicate to Levy how important he is for us.
It will take a hell of a replacement
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure he will play a 5 yard pass in the build up to our equaliser and everyone will rave about great he is again.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 25, 2019)

Slime said:



*Jeez, Phil, if those incidents had involved Salah you'd be singing a different song*.
		
Click to expand...

*Jeez, Slime, if those incidents had involved Salah you'd be singing a different song too ðŸ˜‰*


----------



## chrisd (Aug 25, 2019)

Cant believe that wasnt a pen!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 25, 2019)

Joelinton goes down as though he has been shot, no Spurs player near him. The ref doesn't stop play, not a head injury, spurs play on. Toon management and players take the huff with Spurs, the ball eventually gets put out by Newcastle. A minute of treatment and he is fine. Player comes back on and berates the ref for not stopping play, despite the fact it was clearly not serious as otherwise after only a minute of treatment he would not be back on the pitch. 

Players, managers etc wonder why people shake their heads, don't trust players etc


----------



## Jensen (Aug 25, 2019)

So much for VAR


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 25, 2019)

Hahahaha. Mike Dean is a tosser, and VAR is a joke if it doesn't give that. Never a more stonewall penalty in the history of the game, he's absolutely wiped Kane out when he was about to score. That is beyond a joke. What's VAR for if it doesn't give that? Just get rid of it.


----------



## fundy (Aug 25, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Joelinton goes down as though he has been shot, no Spurs player near him. The ref doesn't stop play, not a head injury, spurs play on. Toon management and players take the huff with Spurs, the ball eventually gets put out by Newcastle. A minute of treatment and he is fine. Player comes back on and berates the ref for not stopping play, despite the fact it was clearly not serious as otherwise after only a minute of treatment he would not be back on the pitch. 

Players, managers etc wonder why people shake their heads, don't trust players etc
		
Click to expand...


Likewise Roses pathetic dive in the first half, lucky not to be carded and subsequently sent off when booked in 2nd half


----------



## fundy (Aug 25, 2019)

And still only 1 home side won in the prem all weekend


----------



## Slime (Aug 25, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



*Jeez, Slime, if those incidents had involved Salah you'd be singing a different song too ðŸ˜‰*

Click to expand...

*Jeez, Stu, I wouldn't be singing a song, I'd be too busy laughing.*
I'd still admit the decisions were wrong, though.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 25, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Hahahaha. Mike Dean is a tosser, and VAR is a joke if it doesn't give that. Never a more stonewall penalty in the history of the game, he's absolutely wiped Kane out when he was about to score. That is beyond a joke. What's VAR for if it doesn't give that? Just get rid of it.
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Thought you were a fan of VAR ? And it was all about patience and waiting for it to be ironed out etc etc etc


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 25, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Thought you were a fan of VAR ? And it was all about patience and waiting for it to be ironed out etc etc etc
		
Click to expand...

I posted in the VAR thread as well. I've been trying to look at the positives and give it time, since I think it's here to stay regardless, but it's clearly being run by absolute morons at the minute. They're completely wasting a valuable tool and making the game look stupid.


----------



## Fish (Aug 25, 2019)

It was Eagles yesterday and Magpies today, a great weekend for our feathered friends ðŸ‘ðŸ‘ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## adam6177 (Aug 25, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Hahahaha. Mike Dean is a tosser, and VAR is a joke if it doesn't give that. Never a more stonewall penalty in the history of the game, he's absolutely wiped Kane out when he was about to score. That is beyond a joke. What's VAR for if it doesn't give that? Just get rid of it.
		
Click to expand...

I haven't seen the game, but are you referring to 1:47-2:10 in this video?


----------



## Slime (Aug 25, 2019)

Fish said:



			It was Eagles yesterday and Magpies today, a great weekend for our feathered friends ðŸ‘ðŸ‘ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

........................... and guess what? The Swans also won today!


----------



## Slime (Aug 25, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			I haven't seen the game, but are you referring to 1:47-2:10 in this video?







Click to expand...

I actually don't think that's a penalty. 
In order to fall over the defender, Kane had to move away from the ball.
Just my opinion, obviously.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 25, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			I haven't seen the game, but are you referring to 1:47-2:10 in this video?







Click to expand...

Yeah of course.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 25, 2019)

Slime said:



			I actually don't think that's a penalty.
In order to fall over the defender, Kane had to move away from the ball.
Just my opinion, obviously.
		
Click to expand...

He's just holding off the defender, that's normal forward play, then said defender collapses and wipes his legs away!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 25, 2019)

Any gamblers out there? What would a Toon and England win have been this morning?


----------



## fundy (Aug 25, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Any gamblers out there? What would a Toon and England win have been this morning?
		
Click to expand...

England win traded as big as 30/1 on Betfair when we went 9 down, was barely bigger than 2/1 this morning before Root was out

Newcastle were about a 14/1 shot with the bookies but may have been a bit bigger on the exchanges

So both this morning wouldve paid just under 50/1


----------



## adam6177 (Aug 25, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			He's just holding off the defender, that's normal forward play, then said defender collapses and wipes his legs away!
		
Click to expand...

Honestly, I'm struggling to see where his legs are wiped away, there is minimal contact if any.... I see no reason for the defender to do what he did and it looks amazingly clumsy, but I equally see no reason that Kane took a side "dive" on top of him... Apart from the fact that he was hoping for the penalty to be given.

IMO I think var got that one correct. But I understand you feel complete opposite.


----------



## Fish (Aug 25, 2019)

Best VAR decision of the weekend ðŸ˜œ


----------



## Jensen (Aug 25, 2019)

Fish said:



			Best VAR decision of the weekend ðŸ˜œ

View attachment 28091

Click to expand...

Ho, ho,  ho. What a chortle ðŸ‘


----------



## Fish (Aug 25, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Ho, ho,  ho. What a chortle ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Youâ€™ll love this then ðŸ˜œ



ðŸ˜‚ðŸ’™


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 25, 2019)

Good story https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49358137


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 25, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I posted in the VAR thread as well. I've been trying to look at the positives and give it time, since I think it's here to stay regardless, but it's clearly being run by absolute morons at the minute. They're completely wasting a valuable tool and making the game look stupid.
		
Click to expand...

You have to console yourself that it will level itself out at the end of the season ðŸ˜– was sent a lovely photo last week of the VAR panel. They were all jewish. It made me chuckle. I would of posted it but laughing about the game is apparently not on.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 25, 2019)

ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 25, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			Honestly, I'm struggling to see where his legs are wiped away, there is minimal contact if any.... I see no reason for the defender to do what he did and it looks amazingly clumsy, but I equally see no reason that Kane took a side "dive" on top of him... Apart from the fact that he was hoping for the penalty to be given.

IMO I think var got that one correct. But I understand you feel complete opposite.
		
Click to expand...

I mean, I can't believe any human being could watch that and not see Kane absolutely wiped out by the defender that goes flying under him.. but ok.


----------



## TheDiablo (Aug 25, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜

View attachment 28096

Click to expand...

Are you actually kidding me?


----------



## Slime (Aug 25, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I mean, I can't believe any human being could watch that and not see Kane absolutely wiped out by the defender that goes flying under him.. but ok. 

Click to expand...

I mean, I can't believe any non-biased human could watch that and not see Kane absolutely change direction so as to fall over the defender beside him, but okay.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 25, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜

View attachment 28096

Click to expand...

Even by your standards that isn't funny.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 25, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			Are you actually kidding me?
		
Click to expand...

You know what, I thought exactly the same last week when a spurs fan sent it me. He thought it was very funny. It Is probably one of those quirks of English comedy where one can laugh at yourself. But woe be tired if anyone else does.


----------



## TheDiablo (Aug 25, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			You know what, I thought exactly the same last week when a spurs fan sent it me. He thought it was very funny. It Is probably one of those quirks of English comedy where one can laugh at yourself. But woe be tired if anyone else does.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, I don't find racism or anti-semitism funny at all. 

Must be me ðŸ¤·ðŸ»â€â™‚ï¸


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 25, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			Even by your standards that isn't funny.
		
Click to expand...

Al pass your sentiments onto the Spurs fan that sent it me after the City v Spurs game last week. Remember the none handball/handball disallowed goal. Where do you think it comes from. Again they are proud  of there heritage and rightly so. You make me wonder if they ( Spurs fans ) have a sense of humour.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 25, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			Sorry, I don't find racism or anti-semitism funny at all.

Must be me ðŸ¤·ðŸ»â€â™‚ï¸
		
Click to expand...

Think you have me confused with Jeremy Corbyn.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 25, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Al pass your sentiments onto the Spurs fan that sent it me after the City v Spurs game last week. Remember the none handball/handball disallowed goal. Where do you think it comes from. Again they are proud  of there heritage and rightly so. You make me wonder if they ( Spurs fans ) have a sense of humour.
		
Click to expand...

The vast majority of Spurs fans are not Jewish and certainly not orthodox as those depicted.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 25, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I mean, I can't believe any human being could watch that and not see Kane absolutely wiped out by the defender that goes flying under him.. but ok. 

Click to expand...

The two most important human beings saw the decision correctly

The ref

And the VAR op

Not enough in it to be a â€œclear and obvious errorâ€ to overrule the refs initial decision


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 25, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			The two most important human beings saw the decision correctly

The ref

And the VAR op

Not enough in it to be a â€œclear and obvious errorâ€ to overrule the refs initial decision
		
Click to expand...

I've never seen a more clear and obvious penalty in my life!  I said to my mate early on though that there is no way in hell Mike Dean is giving us a penalty today, so at least I called it.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 25, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I've never seen a more clear and obvious penalty in my life!  I said to my mate early on though that there is no way in hell Mike Dean is giving us a penalty today, so at least I called it.
		
Click to expand...

The convo will go between the ref and the op

The ref will explain his decision
Var will check

If var can see why the ref came to that then it wonâ€™t be overruled 

For example ref gives a pen and the var man says there is no contact and he dived, the decision will be overturned 

Their was doubt in that decision today. Itâ€™s not clear cut .. so the refs initial decision is upheld


----------



## Imurg (Aug 25, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I've never seen a more clear and obvious penalty in my life!  I said to my mate early on though that there is no way in hell Mike Dean is giving us a penalty today, so at least I called it.
		
Click to expand...

I see what you mean...


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 25, 2019)

The same armchair  cry arses who were so for VAR because it'll get all the decisions correct  are now crying  because they're now not getting the decisions they expect.

It's a farce.

VAR has made the offside alrule even more complicated. 

Yesterday Aubameyang was a yard offside, the liner kept his flag down and played on. Luckily Matip won the ball and put it out for a corner. 

Now the issue for me is Arsenal shouldn't have had a corner because Aubameyang was a yard offside. If they would've scored  from that corner it would've been off a wrong decision. This should not happen in any league game regardless of whose playing.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 25, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The same armchair  cry arses who were so for VAR because it'll get all the decisions correct  are now crying  because they're now not getting the decisions they expect.

It's a farce.

VAR has made the offside alrule even more complicated.

Yesterday Aubameyang was a yard offside, the liner kept his flag down and played on. Luckily Matip won the ball and put it out for a corner.

Now the issue for me is Arsenal shouldn't have had a corner because Aubameyang was a yard offside. If they would've scored  from that corner it would've been off a wrong decision. This should not happen in any league game regardless of whose playing.
		
Click to expand...

If they would have scored wouldnâ€™t they check the build up and bamn goal ruled out for offside


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 25, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			If they would have scored wouldnâ€™t they check the build up and bamn goal ruled out for offside
		
Click to expand...

No because the play before the corner was gone - that phase of the game was gone 

They shouldnâ€™t have been awarded the corner in the first place


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 25, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			If they would have scored wouldnâ€™t they check the build up and bamn goal ruled out for offside
		
Click to expand...

 No because the corner is classed as the next phase of play.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 25, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The same armchair  cry arses who were so for VAR because it'll get all the decisions correct  are now crying  because they're now not getting the decisions they expect.

It's a farce.

VAR has made the offside alrule even more complicated.

Yesterday Aubameyang was a yard offside, the liner kept his flag down and played on. Luckily Matip won the ball and put it out for a corner.

Now the issue for me is Arsenal shouldn't have had a corner because Aubameyang was a yard offside. If they would've scored  from that corner it would've been off a wrong decision. This should not happen in any league game regardless of whose playing.
		
Click to expand...

Yes agree with this.
What happens if Matip tackles him and breaks his leg or the keeper comes out and gets hurt making a challenge that should not have to be made.
Someone will get hurt and the fans will want to know why the Lino never flagged an obvious offside.
Itâ€™s a bit farcical.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 25, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			The convo will go between the ref and the op

The ref will explain his decision
Var will check

If var can see why the ref came to that then it wonâ€™t be overruled

For example ref gives a pen and the var man says there is no contact and he dived, the decision will be overturned

Their was doubt in that decision today. Itâ€™s not clear cut .. so the refs initial decision is upheld
		
Click to expand...

I cannot understand how anybody in the VAR studio hasn't looked at it and gone "Dean you blind idiot you've had a mare. Award the penalty and then get yourself down to Specsavers mate."

I'm in favour of VAR, but they're just doing it SO BADLY. It shouldn't be this difficult.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 25, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I cannot understand how anybody in the VAR studio hasn't looked at it and gone "Dean you blind idiot you've had a mare. Award the penalty and then get yourself down to Specsavers mate."

I'm in favour of VAR, but they're just doing it SO BADLY. It shouldn't be this difficult.
		
Click to expand...

In your opinion though. As a spurs fan 

Newcastle fans would say correct call

Neutrals are mainly in favour of the decision given


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 25, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Neutrals are mainly in favour of the decision given
		
Click to expand...

Haha. I highly doubt that.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 25, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			In your opinion though. As a spurs fan

Newcastle fans would say correct call

Neutrals are mainly in favour of the decision given
		
Click to expand...

Havnt seen it yet .


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 25, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			In your opinion though. As a spurs fan

Newcastle fans would say correct call

Neutrals are mainly in favour of the decision given
		
Click to expand...

I admit when I'm biased, but on this occasion it genuinely looks so stonewall to me. Like the most blatant penalty you'll ever see in your life. I admit when I have doubts about things, or I can see the other point of view, but this is absolutely 100% stonewall. I was just sat in my living room laughing like a madman when they didn't give it. It was totally ludicrous.


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 25, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I admit when I'm biased, but on this occasion it genuinely looks so stonewall to me. Like the most blatant penalty you'll ever see in your life. I admit when I have doubts about things, or I can see the other point of view, but this is absolutely 100% stonewall. I was just sat in my living room laughing like a madman when they didn't give it. It was totally ludicrous.
		
Click to expand...

It was and most unbiased viewers will agree entirely with you. 

Itâ€™s laughable that he claimed Newcastle fans would all say it was a correct call; heâ€™s basically admitting that he himself is biased towards his club. And given who that club is, itâ€™s no wonder heâ€™s pretending it shouldnâ€™t have been a penalty to Spurs.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 25, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I admit when I'm biased, but on this occasion it genuinely looks so stonewall to me. Like the most blatant penalty you'll ever see in your life. I admit when I have doubts about things, or I can see the other point of view, but this is absolutely 100% stonewall. I was just sat in my living room laughing like a madman when they didn't give it. It was totally ludicrous.
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™ve seen it, a fair few times

Itâ€™s 6 of one half a dozen of the other 

Kane looking for contact as he always does, takes the ball away from the defender who looses his footing 

Can see why it wasnâ€™t given

Then because it isnâ€™t a massive error and their is still doubt it is upheld because itâ€™s down to interpretation..


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 25, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			It was and most unbiased viewers will agree entirely with you.

Itâ€™s laughable that he claimed Newcastle fans would all say it was a correct call; heâ€™s basically admitting that he himself is biased towards his club. And given who that club is, itâ€™s no wonder heâ€™s pretending it shouldnâ€™t have been a penalty to Spurs.
		
Click to expand...

You clearly have never read anything I have posted about spurs as I have stated many many times I have no issue with spurs and donâ€™t understand how they are our rivals ...

Our rivals are and always will be millwall


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 25, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Iâ€™ve seen it, a fair few times

Itâ€™s 6 of one half a dozen of the other

Kane looking for contact as he always does, takes the ball away from the defender who looses his footing

Can see why it wasnâ€™t given

Then because it isnâ€™t a massive error and their is still doubt it is upheld because itâ€™s down to interpretation..
		
Click to expand...

It was a massive error!  They missed a stonewall penalty!

"Looking for it" is absolutely not an aspect of the laws. If I was 'looking for' a penalty, and a defender wipes me out, that's still a penalty. 'Looking for it' is a completely irrelevant phrase when making a penalty decision. It's like if a player provokes another one into punching him, are you going to say it's not a red card because the player who got punched was looking for it? No of course not.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 25, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			It was a massive error!  They missed a stonewall penalty!

"Looking for it" is absolutely not an aspect of the laws. If I was 'looking for' a penalty, and a defender wipes me out, that's still a penalty. 'Looking for it' is a completely irrelevant phrase when making a penalty decision. It's like if a player provokes another one into punching him, are you going to say it's not a red card because the player who got punched was looking for it? No of course not.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I think thatâ€™s a pen.
You should be worried about the defending for their goal though.


----------



## davemc1 (Aug 25, 2019)

I tried to reply to the most absurd post from fishcake (but itâ€™s vanished) regarding lpool being the only home team to win this weekend.

Villa started the weekends games off with a home win! Not sure who against? Some tinpot team Iâ€™m guessing...


----------



## fundy (Aug 25, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			I tried to reply to the most absurd post from fishcake (but itâ€™s vanished) regarding lpool being the only home team to win this weekend.

Villa started the weekends games off with a home win! Not sure who against? Some tinpot team Iâ€™m guessing...
		
Click to expand...

my mistake, i posted that! been a long weekend completely forgot about Friday night being this weekend!


----------



## davemc1 (Aug 25, 2019)

fundy said:



			my mistake, i posted that! been a long weekend completely forgot about Friday night being this weekend!
		
Click to expand...

Apologies to fishy! 

Can understand why your heads still a little scrambledðŸ‘ðŸ» ðŸ¥³


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 25, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I think thatâ€™s a pen.
You should be worried about the defending for their goal though.
		
Click to expand...

I was... https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/threads/premier-league-2019-2020-“we’re-off”.101820/post-2041429


----------



## fundy (Aug 25, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Apologies to fishy! 

Can understand why your heads still a little scrambledðŸ‘ðŸ» ðŸ¥³
		
Click to expand...

it was more a dig at us for being the "only" away side to fail lol


----------



## davemc1 (Aug 25, 2019)

fundy said:



			it was more a dig at us for being the "only" away side to fail lol
		
Click to expand...

Tbf, yous where playing the 6 times European Champions. No shame there bro ðŸ‘ðŸ»


----------



## fundy (Aug 25, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Tbf, yous where playing the 6 times European Champions. No shame there bro ðŸ‘ðŸ»
		
Click to expand...


oh are they, I never knew  

we'll take that excuse this week, not sure which one we get next time


----------



## davemc1 (Aug 25, 2019)

fundy said:



			oh are they, I never knew  

we'll take that excuse this week, not sure which one we get next time
		
Click to expand...

You wonâ€™t need one next week, youâ€™re playing a team that just lost to Newcastle at home ðŸ¤£


----------



## fundy (Aug 25, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			You wonâ€™t need one next week, youâ€™re playing a team that just lost to Newcastle at home ðŸ¤£
		
Click to expand...

oh how i hope youre right!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 25, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I was... https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/threads/premier-league-2019-2020-â€œweâ€™re-offâ€.101820/post-2041429

Click to expand...

I think itâ€™s more the time the lad had to pick the pass.
Just no pressure on the ball.
They only had one striker but he still found him.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 25, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think itâ€™s more the time the lad had to pick the pass.
Just no pressure on the ball.
They only had one striker but he still found him.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I just watched them say that on match of the day as well.   Nah, genuinely it was the same for Villa's goal on the opening day, just an acre of space between Sanchez and Rose down the left, and attackers are getting in easily. All it takes is for them to talk to one another and react but they're not doing it.


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 26, 2019)

We were awful yesterday, very lucky to get a point.
But one thing I can take away from the game, at least I don't have to watch Burnley every week. Complete anti football. Wasting time from the 5th minute. Pathetic.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 26, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			We were awful yesterday, very lucky to get a point.
But one thing I can take away from the game, at least I don't have to watch Burnley every week. Complete anti football. Wasting time from the 5th minute. Pathetic.
		
Click to expand...

Burnley are the Bolton / stoke of the league 

We finally got rid of those 2 anti football and another springs up


----------



## Fish (Aug 26, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			I tried to reply to the most absurd post from fishcake (but itâ€™s vanished) regarding lpool being the only home team to win this weekend.

Villa started the weekends games off with a home win! Not sure who against? Some tinpot team Iâ€™m guessing...
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™ll friggin â€˜fishcakeâ€™ you!


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 26, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Burnley are the Bolton / stoke of the league

We finally got rid of those 2 anti football and another springs up
		
Click to expand...

Partly blame the ref for letting them get away with it, if he books the keeper early on for doing it then he's stuffed if he does it again. Basically gave them a license to get away with it.


----------



## Foxholer (Aug 26, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			...
Not enough in it to be a â€œclear and obvious errorâ€ to overrule the refs initial decision
		
Click to expand...

Then VAR ain't working as it should!

Kane was simply taken out. Can't see why it wasn't obvious to the Ref in the first place. So-oo obvious in review mode!

Btw. 1. I'm a 'neutral' for that game! 2. Stadium looks great!


----------



## pendodave (Aug 26, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			We were awful yesterday, very lucky to get a point.
But one thing I can take away from the game, at least I don't have to watch Burnley every week. Complete anti football. Wasting time from the 5th minute. Pathetic.
		
Click to expand...

Completely agree. I had the misfortune to watch Brighton last year, it was exactly the same. Luckily they appear slightly better this time around so we're only left with this lot.
They don't really get called out for it enough in the national media cos everyone is looking the other way.


----------



## pendodave (Aug 26, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			Then VAR ain't working as it should!

Kane was simply taken out. Can't see why it wasn't obvious to the Ref in the first place. So-oo obvious in review mode!

Btw. 1. I'm a 'neutral' for that game! 2. Stadium looks great!
		
Click to expand...

blimey. I've just watched this (as a kind of neutral) and it's amazing how different it looked to me.
The lad lost his balance, and Kane deliberately changed direction *away from the ball* to make sure he fell over him. Now it's true that he's made a career out of it, but that doesn't make it a foul....


----------



## Slime (Aug 26, 2019)

pendodave said:



			blimey. I've just watched this (as a kind of neutral) and it's amazing how different it looked to me.
The lad lost his balance, and Kane deliberately changed direction *away from the ball* to make sure he fell over him. Now it's true that he's made a career out of it, but that doesn't make it a foul....
		
Click to expand...

Which is exactly how I saw it and called it.
There is no way that that was a penalty, no way at all.


----------



## pendodave (Aug 26, 2019)

pendodave said:



			blimey. I've just watched this (as a kind of neutral) and it's amazing how different it looked to me.
The lad lost his balance, and Kane deliberately changed direction *away from the ball* to make sure he fell over him. Now it's true that he's made a career out of it, but that doesn't make it a foul....
		
Click to expand...




Slime said:



			Which is exactly how I saw it and called it.
There is no way that that was a penalty, no way at all.
		
Click to expand...

Ha ha. I was worried that the only people who had liked my remark until you replied were two West ham supporters. Was beginning to think I was less neutral than I'd imagined...
But then, one of the joys of sport is non-neutrality, so maybe that wouldn't be so had.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 26, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			Partly blame the ref for letting them get away with it, if he books the keeper early on for doing it then he's stuffed if he does it again. Basically gave them a license to get away with it.
		
Click to expand...

Seen this for the last couple of years with Burnley, but never wanted to say owt for sounding " bitter". But at times I have seen ther first team sheet and thought there's footballers in that team that are betterball than time wasting. In the same sense that City can be ruthless in " tacklesðŸ¤”" week after week. And " get away with it " to an extent that refs know what is going off.  They know what is going off with Burnley  and time wasting.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 26, 2019)

Flippin spell check


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 26, 2019)

pendodave said:



			blimey. I've just watched this (as a kind of neutral) and it's amazing how different it looked to me.
The lad lost his balance, and Kane deliberately changed direction *away from the ball* to make sure he fell over him. Now it's true that he's made a career out of it, but that doesn't make it a foul....
		
Click to expand...

Seen it again and I agree with this - Kane made sure by moving into the player away from the ball that he was going to be hit and fall over - he does it very well and gets plenty of pens over the season for it


----------



## Slime (Aug 26, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Flippin spell check
		
Click to expand...

..................... and there's me thinking you'd been on the electric lemonades.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Aug 26, 2019)

pendodave said:



			blimey. I've just watched this (as a kind of neutral) and it's amazing how different it looked to me.
The lad lost his balance, and Kane deliberately changed direction *away from the ball* to make sure he fell over him. Now it's true that he's made a career out of it, but that doesn't make it a foul....
		
Click to expand...

Apparently he's gods gift to English footy and we should applaud his diving.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 26, 2019)

pendodave said:



			blimey. I've just watched this (as a kind of neutral) and it's amazing how different it looked to me.
The lad lost his balance, and Kane deliberately changed direction *away from the ball* to make sure he fell over him. Now it's true that he's made a career out of it, but that doesn't make it a foul....
		
Click to expand...

You obviously haven't played football if you think. He leans slightly towards the player to hold him off with his strength - obviously he's expecting him to come up to him shoulder to shoulder. But Lascelles has already started to stumble to the ground at this point, before wiping through both his legs.

I'll repeat something I said earlier that a lot of people don't seem to understand. Even if a player is 'looking for' a penalty, let's say he's waiting and anticipating contact from the defender, if they fall for it and make that contact it's still a penalty. There's no law in the game that says "oh the attacker wanted him to foul him there, therefore it's no longer a foul when he hacked him onto the floor". 'Looking for it' is a completely irrelevant phrase and has no basis in the rules.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 26, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			We were awful yesterday, very lucky to get a point.
But one thing I can take away from the game, at least I don't have to watch Burnley every week. Complete anti football. Wasting time from the 5th minute. Pathetic.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure what â€œanti footballâ€ is but for them itâ€™s all about staying in the Prem and if that means being solid and robust grinding out the wins then fair play to them.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Aug 26, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			You obviously haven't played football if you think. He leans slightly towards the player to hold him off with his strength - obviously he's expecting him to come up to him shoulder to shoulder. But Lascelles has already started to stumble to the ground at this point, before wiping through both his legs.

I'll repeat something I said earlier that a lot of people don't seem to understand. Even if a player is 'looking for' a penalty, let's say he's waiting and anticipating contact from the defender, if they fall for it and make that contact it's still a penalty. There's no law in the game that says "oh the attacker wanted him to foul him there, therefore it's no longer a foul when he hacked him onto the floor". *'Looking for it' is a completely irrelevant phrase and has no basis in the rules.[*/QUOTE]
.
		
Click to expand...

No, but it's cheating...or is that sort of cheating allowed by you?

BTW, he wasn't "wiped out" or "hacked to the floor" either


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 26, 2019)

It's not cheating to put yourself in a situation where the opposing player has to foul you, or ends up fouling you.

Wiping someone out is just my vernacular for when a player collides with another and takes both their legs from under them. Call it something else if you like.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Aug 26, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			It's not cheating to put yourself in a situation where the opposing player has to foul you, or ends up fouling you.

Wiping someone out is just my vernacular for when a player collides with another and takes both their legs from under them. Call it something else if you like.
		
Click to expand...

If Kane continues after the ball or even on  the path he is initially on, he stays on his feet. He chose to fall over, as he it prone to do, but this ref didn't buy it.


----------



## anotherdouble (Aug 26, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			If Kane continues after the ball or even on  the path he is initially on, he stays on his feet. He chose to fall over, as he it prone to do, *but this ref didn't buy it*.
		
Click to expand...

2 because the VAR didnâ€™t believe him either apparently


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 26, 2019)

anotherdouble said:



			2 because the VAR didnâ€™t believe him either apparently
		
Click to expand...

As Iâ€™ve said previous 

The ref explains his decision 

Letâ€™s say dean says I believe he has done what was posted above.. taken himself towards the player etc

Var will go can see why given no error 

If he had been hacked down and dean had said this var would just say sorry you got that wrong this is what happened


----------



## hairball_89 (Aug 26, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			It's not cheating to put yourself in a situation where the opposing player has to foul you, or ends up fouling you.

Wiping someone out is just my vernacular for when a player collides with another and takes both their legs from under them. Call it something else if you like.
		
Click to expand...

It's not cheating to put yourself in that sort of position, no. But that's not what happened. Lascelles fell to the floor and Harry Kane *chose* to fall over him. Kane easily could have got to the ball.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 26, 2019)

hairball_89 said:



			It's not cheating to put yourself in that sort of position, no. But that's not what happened. Lascelles fell to the floor and Harry Kane *chose* to fall over him. Kane easily could have got to the ball.
		
Click to expand...

Kane initially lost balance because as the defender comes he's leaning towards him to hold him off, but Lascelles never arrives at shoulder height because he's already going to the floor that's all. There is no doubt in my mind that Kane's plan would have been to get the ball and score given that he'd not had a sniff all day - not try and win a cheap penalty when he was basically through on goal. Then Lascelles tumbles head first into his legs.


----------



## adam6177 (Aug 26, 2019)

hairball_89 said:



			Harry Kane *chose* to fall over him. Kane easily could have got to the ball.
		
Click to expand...

This is the part that bothers me most about him these days.  The lad is an incredible striker and has every opportunity to be one of the best around, but he's now making bad choices about staying on his feet.... And my opinion is that this is behind coached.  

I hope he cuts it out and does what he's best  at..... scoring goals.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 26, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Kane initially lost balance because as the defender comes he's leaning towards him to hold him off, but Lascelles never arrives at shoulder height because he's already going to the floor that's all. There is no doubt in my mind that Kane's plan would have been to get the ball and score given that he'd not had a sniff all day - not try and win a cheap penalty when he was basically through on goal. Then Lascelles tumbles head first into his legs.
		
Click to expand...

One of the oldest tricks in the book. 

Forward leaning into defender so when the defender moves away forward has the opportunity to hit the deck.

Kane has been particularly adept at this for several years.


----------



## Jensen (Aug 26, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seen it again and I agree with this - Kane made sure by moving into the player away from the ball that he was going to be hit and fall over - he does it very well and gets plenty of pens over the season for it
		
Click to expand...

Not to mention Mo ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 26, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			One of the oldest tricks in the book.

Forward leaning into defender so when the defender moves away forward has the opportunity to hit the deck.

Kane has been particularly adept at this for several years.
		
Click to expand...

Except he didn't have to do any of that because Lascelles went shoulder-first through his bloody legs.


----------



## Jensen (Aug 26, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Except he didn't have to do any of that because Lascelles went shoulder-first through his bloody legs. 

Click to expand...

Banging head against a wall springs to mind ðŸ‘


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 26, 2019)

With Mike Dean on the whistle any kind of decision is possible other than a consistent one...

As a Gooner I was well happy with his decision making yesterday though ðŸ˜‰...


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 26, 2019)

Just seen some highlights from sundays games, with all the cryarsing on here I expected Kane's non penalty to be clear cut. The only thing that was clear cut about it was how he tried to con the ref, he should've stayed on his feet. I'm not a lip reading expert unlike a few on here but 1 of Poch's assistants showed him a replay of the incident and I'm sure Poch said no pen.


Moura missing a tap in too ðŸ˜‚

How the heck did Ederson not see red for that late,High and dangerous tackle?


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 26, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Except he didn't have to do any of that because Lascelles went shoulder-first through his bloody legs. 

Click to expand...

For VAR to work , fans, players and pundits all need to accept its decisions 

VAR has spoken. No pen

May not understand but respect the decision 

The reason we need VAR is because players are cheats who con the ref and donâ€™t respect the decisions

Letâ€™s not make the same mistake twice


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 26, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			You obviously haven't played football if you think. He leans slightly towards the player to hold him off with his strength - obviously he's expecting him to come up to him shoulder to shoulder. But Lascelles has already started to stumble to the ground at this point, before wiping through both his legs.

I'll repeat something I said earlier that a lot of people don't seem to understand. Even if a player is 'looking for' a penalty, let's say he's waiting and anticipating contact from the defender, if they fall for it and make that contact it's still a penalty. There's no law in the game that says "oh the attacker wanted him to foul him there, therefore it's no longer a foul when he hacked him onto the floor". 'Looking for it' is a completely irrelevant phrase and has no basis in the rules.
		
Click to expand...

If they cannot get anything as simple as the penalty decision right in the City v Bournemouth game. Then the game has gone tits up. The penalty decision re Kane. If it had been given. The question would of been asked " what was the defender doing there".
My grief with VAR is, you see numerous replays on the box, but none at the game. If you did see some of the VAR replays, there would be a riot. Not showing them at games tells me they are still screwing up with VAR decisions..


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 26, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			For VAR to work , fans, players and pundits all need to accept its decisions. What even when the decisions are still wrong.

VAR has spoken. No pen. VAR was not wrong, the people looking at the replays were wrong

May not understand but respect the decision. Understand VAR and decisions and rules are wrong, eg handball in penalty box

The reason we need VAR is because players are cheats who con the ref and donâ€™t respect the decisions. Not all players are cheats. Did Silva cheat. VAR was brought in to eradicate wrong decisions, irrespective players cheated or not

Letâ€™s not make the same mistake twice? As much as I believe in VAR, Plenty of wrong decisions have been made this year
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 26, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			If they cannot get anything as simple as the penalty decision right in the City v Bournemouth game. Then the game has gone tits up. The penalty decision re Kane. If it had been given. The question would of been asked " what was the defender doing there".
My grief with VAR is, you see numerous replaces on the box, but none at the game. If you did see some of the VAR replays, there would be a riot. Not showing them at games tells me they are still screwing up with VAR decisions..
		
Click to expand...

VAR isnt fit for purpose in football. 

Football is too quick for VAR. 

The standard of PL referees is atrocious, so with those 3 issues its impossible to improve the game  no matter how much cash they throw at it.


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 26, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not sure what â€œanti footballâ€ is but for them itâ€™s all about staying in the Prem and if that means being solid and robust grinding out the wins then fair play to them.
		
Click to expand...

Wait until they cost you points in your title chase when they take 30 seconds minimum per goal kick and throw in.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 26, 2019)

The VAR disallowed goal against spurs was 100% correct

The law of the game on handballs was changed. It correctly applied the new law

The problem was with the law of the game not VAR


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 26, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			The VAR disallowed goal against spurs was 100% correct

The law of the game on handballs was changed. It correctly applied the new law

The problem was with the law of the game not VAR
		
Click to expand...

Which was the same reason we had a goal disallowed for against Leicester.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 26, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			Wait until they cost you points in your title chase when they take 30 seconds minimum per goal kick and throw in.
		
Click to expand...

If we drop points it wonâ€™t be because of time wasting - it will be because we either didnâ€™t create or didnâ€™t take chances. The game is 90mins long plus stoppage time.


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 26, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If we drop points it wonâ€™t be because of time wasting - it will be because we either didnâ€™t create or didnâ€™t take chances. The game is 90mins long plus stoppage time.
		
Click to expand...

And what if the referee doesn't do his job and add it on?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 26, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			And what if the referee doesn't do his job and add it on?
		
Click to expand...

Again there is still 90mins for the team to score - if you donâ€™t break the team down within that time then what does an extra couple of mins make - you scored in 7 mins added on time , out of the 17 shots you had on goal you had 2 on target including the penalty - maybe the reason you didnâ€™t get all three points is because you couldnâ€™t hit the target


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 26, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			Wait until they cost you points in your title chase when they take 30 seconds minimum per goal kick and throw in.
		
Click to expand...

In fairness we had a player break his  leg by a burnley players strong tackling last season.


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 26, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again there is still 90mins for the team to score - if you donâ€™t break the team down within that time then what does an extra couple of mins make - you scored in 7 mins added on time , out of the 17 shots you had on goal you had 2 on target including the penalty - maybe the reason you didnâ€™t get all three points is because you couldnâ€™t hit the target
		
Click to expand...

Yeah you're right, sorry. As you were.


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 26, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			In fairness we had a player break his  leg by a burnley players strong tackling last season.
		
Click to expand...

Got no issue with strong tackling, long balls etc. It's not having the ball in play I struggle with.


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 26, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			For VAR to work , fans, players and pundits all need to accept its decisions 

VAR has spoken. No pen

May not understand but respect the decision 

The reason we need VAR is because players are cheats who con the ref and donâ€™t respect the decisions

Letâ€™s not make the same mistake twice
		
Click to expand...

There's the thing... Dean could've easily awarded the pen and I doubt VAR would've overturned his decision...


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 26, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			Got no issue with strong tackling, long balls etc. It's not having the ball in play I struggle with.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, I see it a lot at Anfield but as soon as we score they jib it and get a move on.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 26, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			There's the thing... Dean could've easily awarded the pen and I doubt VAR would've overturned his decision...
		
Click to expand...

That's only because it wasnt a clear and obvious error.

It proves that VAR isnt the bee all and end all its been made out to be.


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 26, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I agree, I see it a lot at Anfield but as soon as we score they jib it and get a move on.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I imagine it's loads worse for you lot, conceding first didn't help ðŸ˜„


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 26, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			That's only because it wasnt a clear and obvious error.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly ðŸ‘...


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 26, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Exactly ðŸ‘...
		
Click to expand...

If he gives it,  it's a cheap pen, he doesnt give it  and it's a could've/should've/seen them given pen.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 26, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Except he didn't have to do any of that because Lascelles went shoulder-first through his bloody legs. 

Click to expand...




Jensen said:



			Banging head against a wall springs to mind ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Said the Spurs supporters.


----------



## user2010 (Aug 26, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Flippin spell check
		
Click to expand...



Yeah, right, it's your spell checker!


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 26, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			VAR isnt fit for purpose in football. 

Football is too quick for VAR. 

The standard of PL referees is atrocious, so with those 3 issues its impossible to improve the game  no matter how much cash they throw at it.
		
Click to expand...

So its too quick for VAR, but ok for refs then?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 26, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If we drop points it wonâ€™t be because of time wasting - it will be because we either didnâ€™t create or didnâ€™t take chances. The game is 90mins long plus stoppage time.
		
Click to expand...

Its 90 minutes long, but only approx 60 ins in play and when a team timewastes excessively even less.

Time wasting should be clamped down on.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 26, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			It proves that VAR isnt the bee all and end all its been made out to be.
		
Click to expand...

Which is a load of bollocks, as no-one has claimed that VAR will be 100% correct.

Its just a myth created by anti-VAR people.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 26, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Which is a load of bollocks, as no-one has claimed that VAR will be 100% correct.

Its just a myth created by anti-VAR people.
		
Click to expand...

Many pro VAR people have said VAR  *WILL* stop the wrong decisions, How many wrong decisions has it corrected in 3 weeks?

Go back into last seasons thread, it's there in black and white, and that's just on here. See Twitter and plenty of phone ins.

Can you remember what it felt like in the ground on Saturday 1st half when there was a VAR check for an off the ball incident that no one seen? It seemed to take ages.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 26, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			So its too quick for VAR, but ok for refs then?
		
Click to expand...

Yes, most refs keep up with play. VAR  just causes delays in what should be a free flowing game.

I cant remember a ref delaying a game because he couldn't keep up


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 26, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Many pro VAR people have said VAR  *WILL* stop the wrong decisions, How many wrong decisions has it corrected in 3 weeks? 

Go back into last seasons thread, it's there in black and white. 

Can you remember what it felt like in the ground on Saturday 1st half when there was a VAR check for an off the ball incident that no one seen? It seemed to take ages.
		
Click to expand...

They havent said it will be 100% correct though, as the games subjective so its impossible.

Anti-VAR people have peddled this rubbish from the start, that Pro-VAR people have said it will be 100% correct.They havent.

Overall, I'm in favour of VAR, but the dynamic is wrong - like cricket it should be the team who decides when to use it, not on or off-field refs. Thats its current biggest problem.

Yes, they said checking for a red card, when it should have been for a push and a penalty on Mo, but thats not what I'm arguing about.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 26, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes, most refs keep up with play. VAR  just causes delays in what should be a free flowing game.
		
Click to expand...

They keep up with play a lot of the time, but they dont have 360 degree view.

On one hand your saying we have atrocious refs, but dont offer anything to help them, and dont give me that guff about get rid of the current 20 prem refs, believe me we would moan about the next 20, then the 20 after that..........do you think that championship fans arent moaning about their refs week in week out?

I understand people wanting or not wanting VAR, but its a fallacy that pro_VAR fans have said it will be 100% correct. Pure myth.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 26, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



*They havent said it will be 100% correct though, *as the games subjective so its impossible.

Anti-VAR people have peddled this rubbish from the start, that Pro-VAR people have said it will be 100% correct.They havent.

Overall, I'm in favour of VAR, but the dynamic is wrong - like cricket it should be the team who decides when to use it, not on or off-field refs. Thats its current biggest problem.

Yes, they said checking for a red card, when it should have been for a push and a penalty on Mo, but thats not what I'm arguing about.
		
Click to expand...

Many people have, I've heard it and read it.  

Are you suggesting theres a "project fear"  amongst Anti VAR people? ðŸ˜‰

Having your idea would totally ruin the game and I would definitely walk away from the game if that was introduced. 

That VAR  check was a joke. It took way too long. Theres enough natural breaks in the game without adding more to it. 

Improve the standard of refereeing 1st then maybe add technology, giving inept referees technology is a recipe for disaster and I think it'll show in the next few weeks .


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 26, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



*They keep up with play a lot of the time, but they dont have 360 degree view.*

On one hand your saying we have atrocious refs, but dont offer anything to help them, and dont give me that guff about get rid of the current 20 prem refs, believe me we would moan about the next 20, then the 20 after that..........do you think that championship fans arent moaning about their refs week in week out?

I understand people wanting or not wanting VAR, but its a fallacy that pro_VAR fans have said it will be 100% correct. Pure myth.
		
Click to expand...

VAR isnt a 360 view neither. 

It's not. It's out there. 

I'm all for helping refs, but it cant be at the detriment of the game. Do we really want a sanitised game where every decision is looked at/checked or a game that ebbs and flows and has minimal stoppages?

I'd say the biggest issue with PL refs is the lack of consistency ( give a yellow 1 week but the next a red for exactly the same foul) and they dont let games flow.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 26, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Many people have, I've heard it and read it.  

Are you suggesting theres a "project fear"  amongst Anti VAR people? ðŸ˜‰

Having your idea would totally ruin the game and I would definitely walk away from the game if that was introduced. 

That VAR  check was a joke. It took way too long. Theres enough natural breaks in the game without adding more to it. 

Improve the standard of refereeing 1st then maybe add technology, giving inept referees technology is a recipe for disaster and I think it'll show in the next few weeks .
		
Click to expand...

Saying it will be 100% correct? There may be the odd nugget, but no-one who knows what they are on about would claim that VAR would be 100% correct. Many - no chance.

They may have said it will improve, but not people saying it would be 100% correct.

So VAR is currently ruining the game in your opinion, so why not try the other option........cos it would ruin the game. 2 or 3 checks per side decided within 3 seconds, so we dont have the current situation wherby you could have 20 checks a game.

Give me 5 things that could improve the refs.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 26, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			VAR isnt a 360 view neither. 

It's not. It's out there. 

I'm all for helping refs, but it cant be at the detriment of the game. Do we really want a sanitised game where every decision is looked at/checked or a game that ebbs and flows and has minimal stoppages?

I'd say the biggest issue with PL refs is the lack of consistency ( give a yellow 1 week but the next a red for exactly the same foul) and they dont let games flow.
		
Click to expand...

Nope, but it has more views than 1 refs line of sight, and also has slow motion.

I dont want a sanitised game either, but I still think that there is room for restricted technology to help a bit more. Teams decide though and not the refs. Its fairer for "smaller" clubs, who for years could go to Anfield or OT and could see late winners ruled out because of refs who were intimidated by players/managers/big home crowds.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 26, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Nope, but it has more views than 1 refs line of sight, and also has slow motion.

I dont want a sanitised game either, but I still think that there is room for restricted technology to help a bit more. Teams decide though and not the refs. Its fairer for "smaller" clubs, who for years could go to Anfield or OT and could see late winners ruled out because of refs who were intimidated by players/managers/big home crowds.
		
Click to expand...

Slow motion can make a tackle look from a foul to a red card. Then theres the contact issue, not all contact is a foul.  Yes theres contact but is it enough to impede someone? How do we measure the contact? 

Apparently refs got 96% decisions correct last season,  they want to improve that to 98%. 

I'm not convinced with the camera angles. Are they all set at the same height/angle in every ground? I very much doubt it. 

The days of managers holding refs to ransom like ferguson did are long gone.

I do not believe  that happens anymore in any ground.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 26, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Slow motion can make a tackle look from a foul to a red card. Then theres the contact issue, not all contact is a foul.  Yes theres contact but is it enough to impede someone? How do we measure the contact? 

Apparently refs got 96% decisions correct last season,  they want to improve that to 98%. 

I'm not convinced with the camera angles. Are they all set at the same height/angle in every ground? I very much doubt it. 

The days of managers holding refs to ransom like ferguson did are long gone.

I do not believe  that happens anymore in any ground.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, agree with all of the first sentence, which its why no-one would say it would be 100% correct.

And do you actually believe them figures????????

Sorry, but some refs are just cowards and wont make the big decisions, its human nature. 

Different sports, but Cricket and Rugby would have had the same conversations years ago and yes footy is harder to do, but it will get better, never be perfect, but done the with the right dynamic and with limited uses, could make it better.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 26, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Saying it will be 100% correct? There may be the odd nugget, but no-one who knows what they are on about would claim that VAR would be 100% correct. Many - no chance.

They may have said it will improve, but not people saying it would be 100% correct.

So VAR is currently ruining the game in your opinion, so why not try the other option........cos it would ruin the game. 2 or 3 checks per side decided within 3 seconds, so we dont have the current situation wherby you could have 20 checks a game.

*Give me 5 things that could improve the refs.*

Click to expand...

Refs being micro managed. Let them use common sense.

Players stop cheating.

Managers and players taking responsibility for shithouse performances 

Media stop over analysing every contentious decision.

Rotation of refs, the current lot seems to be the same pool of refs season in season out. Maybe the introduction of some overseas refs.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 27, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, agree with all of the first sentence, which its why no-one would say it would be 100% correct.

And do you actually believe them figures????????

*Sorry, but some refs are just cowards and wont make the big decisions, its human nature.*

Different sports, but Cricket and Rugby would have had the same conversations years ago and yes footy is harder to do, but it will get better, never be perfect, but done the with the right dynamic and with limited uses, could make it better.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah agree but those that do need to be shipped out.  Who was the last ref to be demoted to Championship??  Andy D'urso? 

Are you surprised when they get hounded in the media after every dropped bollock?

VAR should only be used for a matter of fact and leave it there.

Re figures, yes I do. I very much doubt they would just pluck a number out of thin air to make themselves look better. 

An improvement of the laws of the game would help massively too.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 27, 2019)

Two pages on VAR when there's a VAR thread ðŸ˜.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 27, 2019)

The City one on David Silva should have been a penalty as well. That would have been the perfect example of a clear and obvious error because the ref didn't see the player who stamped down on Silva's foot with his studs, causing him to go down. I can't understand why that wasn't overturned. They seem to be afraid to use it properly. It's only there to give millimetre offsides and handballs but not for actual fouls apparently, they're just going to take the ref's word regardless so reviewing it is a waste of time.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 27, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			The City one on David Silva should have been a penalty as well. That would have been the perfect example of a clear and obvious error because the ref didn't see the player who stamped down on Silva's foot with his studs, causing him to go down. I can't understand why that wasn't overturned. They seem to be afraid to use it properly. It's only there to give millimetre offsides and handballs but not for actual fouls apparently, they're just going to take the ref's word regardless so reviewing it is a waste of time.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/var-right-deny-harry-kane-19009336

Would be nice if they really are clamping down on showmanship


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 27, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/var-right-deny-harry-kane-19009336

Would be nice if they really are clamping down on showmanship
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but if Stan Collymore thinks it wasn't a penalty then that only confirms that it definitely was one.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 27, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Sorry but if Stan Collymore thinks it wasn't a penalty then that only confirms that it definitely was one.
		
Click to expand...

Have you actually read the article or just dismissed it because of who has written it?

Worth a read


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 27, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah agree but those that do need to be shipped out.  Who was the last ref to be demoted to Championship??  Andy D'urso?

Are you surprised when they get hounded in the media after every dropped bollock?

VAR should only be used for a matter of fact and leave it there.

Re figures, yes I do. I very much doubt they would just pluck a number out of thin air to make themselves look better.

An improvement of the laws of the game would help massively too.
		
Click to expand...


Well a journalist on talk sport today said that the figure was 82% correct. I'm not saying that his figures were right either, but even then is it an independent panel who says that 90 odd percent was correct or just other refs, as with even the most minimal of contact they could say it was a foul, which then leads to refs giving any contact as a foul to "boost the figures".

You cant have common sense and the same decision getting given the same every time, as its all subjective - they are mutually exclusive "nirvanas".


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 27, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Have you actually read the article or just dismissed it because of who has written it?

Worth a read
		
Click to expand...

Of course I've dismissed it, it's Collymore. The man is a bell end of the highest order.


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 27, 2019)

Does the Silva lack of penalty cancel out the fact Ederson and Walker should've been sent off? Call it a VAR score draw in that game.

As for Kane, of course that's a penalty. It's absolutely stone wall. Kane isn't doing anything wrong in any of his actions when battling with Lascelles.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 27, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Does the Silva lack of penalty cancel out the fact Ederson and Walker should've been sent off? Call it a VAR score draw in that game.

As for Kane, of course that's a penalty. It's absolutely stone wall. Kane isn't doing anything wrong in any of his actions when battling with Lascelles.
		
Click to expand...

That's true Walker should have had about three cards. I'm not sure if that's something VAR reviews though. Maybe it does for straight reds, which one of his certainly could have been.


----------



## Old Colner (Aug 27, 2019)

All this talk of Burnley and time wasting seems a very blinkered, one sided view, every game at Turf Moor (except probably top 6) we have to endure the same tactics from the visiting teams, agree some are worse than others but they all do it.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 27, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			That's true Walker should have had about three cards. I'm not sure if that's something VAR reviews though. Maybe it does for straight reds, which one of his certainly could have been.
		
Click to expand...

The comments by Stan collymore, although I could just see past his woman beating antics. Were the comments of someone looking for a "stage" to say look at me. And yet some people think he is correct. The Mirror photo endorses his Rammel by showing a photo of Silva a second after contact. Again complete and utter Rammel. It's not that though what amuses me. Walker should of had a yellow for standing on a players foot. The same happend with Silva and the differance is what?


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 27, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Of course I've dismissed it, it's Collymore. The man is a bell end of the highest order.
		
Click to expand...

Fortunately I did read it and you haven't wasted two mins of your life like I have. â˜¹ï¸


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Aug 27, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Fortunately I did read it and you haven't wasted two mins of your life like I have. â˜¹ï¸
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps he like many of us are sick of the diving and feigning injury and likely death.
Too often you hear a pundit or commentator say "go down, make the ref make a descision" at a penalty box incident. Somewhere it has to stop, and something has to stop it.
You/me/we may not like Collymore, but he has a valid point that has to be addressed.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 27, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Perhaps he like many of us are sick of the diving and feigning injury and likely death.
Too often you hear a pundit or commentator say "go down, make the ref make a descision" at a penalty box incident. Somewhere it has to stop, and something has to stop it.
		
Click to expand...

In all honesty BM, He, me, you and millions of others are bogged off. I just think there are far better examples of Rammel VAR decisions he could of used. Plus I think having read the piece, he wants to be subjective on a subjective er subject. Everyone seems to be looking for differant angles on the whole VAR thing. Some of it is not helping and for me Stan collymore is one of them being ably assisted by the Daily Mire.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Aug 27, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			In all honesty BM, He, me, you and millions of others are bogged off. I just think there are far better examples of Rammel VAR decisions he could of used. Plus I think having read the piece, he wants to be subjective on a subjective er subject. Everyone seems to be looking for differant angles on the whole VAR thing. Some of it is not helping and for me Stan collymore is one of them being ably assisted by the Daily Mire.
		
Click to expand...

I don't disagree and feel he's only used the 2 examples he has because they are very recent and topic of conversation. However he has a valid point, and something has to change.


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 27, 2019)

I am genuinely coming around, more and more, to the thought footie was a WHOLE lot better before the wall to wall coverage we have available to us nowadays...


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 27, 2019)

Great thatâ€™s Antonio out for least a few months

Our injury curse strikes once again


----------



## Norrin Radd (Aug 27, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Of course I've dismissed it, it's Collymore. The man is a bell end of the highest order.
		
Click to expand...

Have you looked in the mirror lately, you would see another. Ffs just accept that your poor little player didn't get a bloody penalty because he dived and the ref or var didn't give it .they are far far more qualified than you so your constant bleating is just getting tedious.get over it mate they ain't gonna change the system ,it is what it is.


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 27, 2019)

Jack's back...

Still wishing he had come good as a Gunner...


----------



## fundy (Aug 27, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Jack's back...

Still wishing he had come good as a Gunner...
		
Click to expand...

we paid him more than enough to take the piss for far too long! good luck to him at West Ham


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 27, 2019)

fundy said:



			we paid him more than enough to take the piss for far too long! good luck to him at West Ham
		
Click to expand...

Without a doubt he had more than enough opportunity/time to mature into a player that his early promise appeared to indicate he had in him... I suspect similar could be said of quite a few...


----------



## fundy (Aug 27, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Without a doubt he had more than enough opportunity/time to mature into a player that his early promise appeared to indicate he had in him... I suspect similar could be said of quite a few...
		
Click to expand...

maybe so but if you look in the dictionary at wasting an opportunity theres a picture of him and his sister lol


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 27, 2019)

Norrin Radd said:



			Have you looked in the mirror lately, you would see another. Ffs just accept that your poor little player didn't get a bloody penalty because he dived and the ref or var didn't give it .they are far far more qualified than you so your constant bleating is just getting tedious.get over it mate they ain't gonna change the system ,it is what it is.
		
Click to expand...

Shut up you melt.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 27, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Great thatâ€™s Antonio out for least a few months

Our injury curse strikes once again
		
Click to expand...

Who else have you been unlucky with? Iâ€™ll admot I donâ€™t follow you too closely, but if youâ€™re including either Wilshere or Carroll, thatâ€™s not bad luck. Itâ€™s just taking a punt and it not working.


----------



## fundy (Aug 27, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Shut up you melt.
		
Click to expand...

lol, cant win an argument so calls someone a melt. Are you 12?


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 27, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Who else have you been unlucky with? Iâ€™ll admot I donâ€™t follow you too closely, but if youâ€™re including either Wilshere or Carroll, thatâ€™s not bad luck. Itâ€™s just taking a punt and it not working.
		
Click to expand...

Payet was injured for 6 key weeks in his debut season
Winston Reid has had a few seasons of injuries 
Carlos Sanchez missed all of last season
Yarmenlko.. never injured.. comes to us out for 10 months 

Baluena missed 6 weeks last year which cost us massively 
Hernandez keeps getting injuries 
Fredericks injured a lot last season
Cresswell hasnâ€™t been same since his knee injury 

Have a look season by season we normally near top of injury table


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 27, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Who else have you been unlucky with? Iâ€™ll admot I donâ€™t follow you too closely, but if youâ€™re including either Wilshere or Carroll, thatâ€™s not bad luck. Itâ€™s just taking a punt and it not working.
		
Click to expand...

Forgot the major one last season

Hardly ever injured 

First call up for his national team at the world cup

Lanzini ... boom acl gone 

Season over


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 27, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Payet was injured for 6 key weeks in his debut season
Winston Reid has had a few seasons of injuries 
Carlos Sanchez missed all of last season
Yarmenlko.. never injured.. comes to us out for 10 months 

Baluena missed 6 weeks last year which cost us massively 
Hernandez keeps getting injuries 
Fredericks injured a lot last season
Cresswell hasnâ€™t been same since his knee injury 

Have a look season by season we normally near top of injury table
		
Click to expand...

I recall arsenal getting criticised for poor training. Maybe you guys are the same?

I recall Reid and Frederick's getting quite a few knocks, so maybe there just another of those types.

Yarmolenko does appear bad luck.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 27, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I recall arsenal getting criticised for poor training. Maybe you guys are the same?

I recall Reid and Frederick's getting quite a few knocks, so maybe there just another of those types.

Yarmolenko does appear bad luck.
		
Click to expand...

What makes me laugh is we have had these issues for years only really worse team are arsenal

So we get a new head of sports science 

Former head of arsenal

What the actual hell


----------



## fundy (Aug 27, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I recall arsenal getting criticised for poor training. Maybe you guys are the same?

I recall Reid and Frederick's getting quite a few knocks, so maybe there just another of those types.

Yarmolenko does appear bad luck.
		
Click to expand...


sadly the charge arsenal still appears to be true if you watch us trying to defend


----------



## fundy (Aug 27, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			What makes me laugh is we have had these issues for years only really worse team are arsenal

So we get a new head of sports science 

Former head of arsenal

What the actual hell
		
Click to expand...


not to mention taking one of our worst cases off our hands


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 27, 2019)

fundy said:



			not to mention taking one of our worst cases off our hands 

Click to expand...

Heâ€™s done the business tonight 

Good transfer for us for no fee.. when heâ€™s fit he is class when he is not we can fill in

However Carroll was a waste because we needed him constantly 

If Jack was fit he would be at a top club


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 27, 2019)

fundy said:



			lol, cant win an argument so calls someone a melt. Are you 12?
		
Click to expand...

There was no argument, I just didn't realise I was talking to the head of the Stan Collymore fan club.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 27, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Heâ€™s done the business tonight

Good transfer for us for no fee.. when heâ€™s fit he is class when he is not we can fill in

However Carroll was a waste because we needed him constantly

*If Jack was fit he would be at a top club*

Click to expand...

He played 20/30 games at bmouth before going to you.....

Heâ€™s a busted flush imo, looked fantastic in one game agent Barcelona though ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Certainly worth a punt for any middle of the league team. But I canâ€™t recall too many games in the last five years that would make me think heâ€™d get into a settled top 6 team. Actually probably UtDâ€™s midfield atm.


----------



## fundy (Aug 27, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Heâ€™s done the business tonight 

Good transfer for us for no fee.. when heâ€™s fit he is class when he is not we can fill in

However Carroll was a waste because we needed him constantly 

If Jack was fit he would be at a top club
		
Click to expand...


Pretty sure Ill have watched more minutes of Wilshere live than you over the years, complete and utter waste of talent for sure but still not at the very top table even if he stayed fit imo, flatters to deceive a fair bit, poor in front of goal for how good a passer he is and possibly the only tackler worse than Bergkamp I saw at Arsenal! Would still be at Arsenal if he stayed fit btw


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 27, 2019)

fundy said:



			Pretty sure Ill have watched more minutes of Wilshere live than you over the years, complete and utter waste of talent for sure but still not at the very top table even if he stayed fit imo, flatters to deceive a fair bit, poor in front of goal for how good a passer he is and possibly the only tackler worse than Bergkamp I saw at Arsenal! Would still be at Arsenal if he stayed fit btw
		
Click to expand...

Was offered a contract wasnâ€™t he and turned it down because he wasnâ€™t in first team plans?


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 27, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			He played 20/30 games at bmouth before going to you.....

Heâ€™s a busted flush imo, looked fantastic in one game agent Barcelona though ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Certainly worth a punt for any middle of the league team. But I canâ€™t recall too many games in the last five years that would make me think heâ€™d get into a settled top 6 team. Actually probably UtDâ€™s midfield atm.
		
Click to expand...

27 games (plus 2 for arsenal) and then a broken leg wasnâ€™t it? Which is hardly like his other injuries (more bad luck than fitness a leg break)

Then played 38 games for arsenal the season after so had seemed to be getting over it


----------



## fundy (Aug 27, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Was offered a contract wasnâ€™t he and turned it down because he wasnâ€™t in first team plans?
		
Click to expand...

Was offered a very basic pay and play contract having been paid fortunes to sit in the treatment room, injured and not so injured over the years


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 27, 2019)

fundy said:



			Was offered a very basic pay and play contract having been paid fortunes to sit in the treatment room, injured and not so injured over the years
		
Click to expand...

Could have taken it tho, decided to come to the club he supported as a child

Iâ€™m glad he is here, he is decent enough for us


----------



## Fade and Die (Aug 27, 2019)

fundy said:



			maybe so but if you look in the dictionary at wasting an opportunity theres a picture of him and his sister lol
		
Click to expand...

This made me google his sister.... Jesus what a piece of work!


----------



## Fade and Die (Aug 27, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			He played 20/30 games at bmouth before going to you.....

Heâ€™s a busted flush imo, looked fantastic in one game agent Barcelona though ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Certainly *worth a punt for any middle of the league team*. But I canâ€™t recall too many games in the last five years that would make me think heâ€™d get into a settled top 6 team. Actually probably UtDâ€™s midfield atm.
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s what we aspire to!ðŸ˜


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 27, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			He played 20/30 games at bmouth before going to you.....

Heâ€™s a busted flush imo, looked fantastic in one game agent Barcelona though ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Certainly worth a punt for any middle of the league team. But I canâ€™t recall too many games in the last five years that would make me think heâ€™d get into a settled top 6 team. Actually probably UtDâ€™s midfield atm.
		
Click to expand...

Agree with this. Had the potential to be fantastic when he came through, but completely stalled due to missing so much football. Never developed any better than he was at 19 as a result. You can't still be talking about potential when the player is 26, 27. It's too late now for him to be a top player.


----------



## Slime (Aug 27, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Shut up you melt.
		
Click to expand...




fundy said:



			lol, cant win an argument so calls someone a melt. Are you 12?
		
Click to expand...

WTF is a melt?
Oh, I'm 61, if you were wondering.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 27, 2019)

Slime said:



			WTF is a melt?
Oh, I'm 61, if you were wondering.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=melt&amp=true


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 27, 2019)

Palace beat Utd, Colchester beat palace. ðŸ˜ What a game we love.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Aug 27, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Palace beat Utd, Colchester beat palace. ðŸ˜ What a game we love.
		
Click to expand...

Go on the U's.


----------



## Norrin Radd (Aug 28, 2019)

The only "melt" on here is you I'm afraid ,you seem to think that you are the oracle when it comes to football ,but in reality you haven't got a bloody clue. 
You harp on and on about your precious players as if they are gods .definitely twelve year old hero worship.As for the drivel you post about golf confirms to me that maybe you are only twelve years old .


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 28, 2019)

Norrin Radd said:



			The only "melt" on here is you I'm afraid ,you seem to think that you are the oracle when it comes to football ,but in reality you haven't got a bloody clue.
You harp on and on about your precious players as if they are gods .definitely twelve year old hero worship.As for the drivel you post about golf confirms to me that maybe you are only twelve years old .
		
Click to expand...

I'll assume this was aimed at me since you haven't mastered the quote function. I don't recall ever worshipping any of our players, if anything the majority of posts I make here are to criticise the poor ones! And at your age I suppose anyone who can walk unaided probably does appear to be about 12, yeah. This is some tantrum just to defend the honour of Stan Collymore man.  Then again you have form since I remember you having a strop about people quite sensibly predicting Brighton would get relegated as well.


----------



## Slime (Aug 28, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=melt&amp=true

Click to expand...

Every day's a school day. Thanks PJ.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 28, 2019)

Slime said:



			Every day's a school day. Thanks PJ.  

Click to expand...

I was " melting" on the course yesterday, it was hot as well.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 28, 2019)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49493582

One for the Utd fans, would you have him back, is he a short term fix.


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 28, 2019)

Slime said:



			Every day's a school day. Thanks PJ.  

Click to expand...

Yea, but there are some things, us seniors, really didn't need to know...


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 28, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49493582

One for the Utd fans, would you have him back, is he a short term fix.
		
Click to expand...

Saw this earlier. Even at his age I think he'd improve their squad.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 28, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Its 90 minutes long, but only approx 60 ins in play and when a team timewastes excessively even less.

Time wasting should be clamped down on.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe an off field timekeeper would help.
He could make sure the ball is in play for 90mins and no need for extra time or time wasting.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 28, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Maybe an off field timekeeper would help.
He could make sure the ball is in play for 90mins and no need for extra time or time wasting.
		
Click to expand...

A 3pm match may end up finishing at 5.30-6pm though . I'm all for an off field timekeeper, I think that would work well, but I don't think 90 minutes of ball on the pitch would be practical. There is a balance that could reduce the time wasting without stretching the game out too far, I'm sure that is what you were meaning.

American football is probably the extreme of ball in play timekeeping, 60 minute games that last just over 3hrs (thank you Google)


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Aug 28, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A 3pm match may end up finishing at 5.30-6pm though . I'm all for an off field timekeeper, I think that would work well, but I don't think 90 minutes of ball on the pitch would be practical. There is a balance that could reduce the time wasting without stretching the game out too far, I'm sure that is what you were meaning.

American football is probably the extreme of ball in play timekeeping, 60 minute games that last just over 3hrs (thank you Google)
		
Click to expand...

Rugby does it very well, with the ref stopping the clock when he feels there is an undue delay. The ball going out for lineouts doesn't stop the clock.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 28, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A 3pm match may end up finishing at 5.30-6pm though . I'm all for an off field timekeeper, I think that would work well, but I don't think 90 minutes of ball on the pitch would be practical. There is a balance that could reduce the time wasting without stretching the game out too far, I'm sure that is what you were meaning.

American football is probably the extreme of ball in play timekeeping, 60 minute games that last just over 3hrs (thank you Google)
		
Click to expand...

Yes but once teams realise that time wasting is just not counted they wonâ€™t do it.!
When you buy your ticket you are promised 90mins of footy how often has that happened.never prob.

American footy basically has two sides each offence and defence so time one runs off and another comes on, time outs, four quarters not really the same.

A time keeper would just help imo. As the refs got enough to do.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 28, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Rugby does it very well, with the ref stopping the clock when he feels there is an undue delay. The ball going out for lineouts doesn't stop the clock.
		
Click to expand...

Yes something along these lines I think could help.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 28, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A 3pm match may end up finishing at 5.30-6pm though . I'm all for an off field timekeeper, I think that would work well, but I don't think 90 minutes of ball on the pitch would be practical. There is a balance that could reduce the time wasting without stretching the game out too far, I'm sure that is what you were meaning.

American football is probably the extreme of ball in play timekeeping, 60 minute games that last just over 3hrs (thank you Google)
		
Click to expand...

I think you're right. I think 90 minutes being the time for a match _allows_ for stoppages within that - it just perhaps doesn't allow enough. If you were to change to timing it only when the ball is in play, you would have to shorten the total amount of time to 35 or 40 minute halves.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 28, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Maybe an off field timekeeper would help.
He could make sure the ball is in play for 90mins and no need for extra time or time wasting.
		
Click to expand...

As stated a match would then last 120 mins plus.

2 options that could be workable though:-

1. Minimum of 65 minutes "ball in play", so that if a team were taking their time on goal kicks, throw ins, free kicks and going down for non-existent injuries they still know it wont unduly affect the game in play time.

2. 2 sets of extra time - injury/subs/goals/decisions time - made up of all the normal things they add on. Empower to the ref to double any time used up for timewasting alone- if he thinks 2 mins has been time-wasted, double it to 4.

eg. 3 mins for the first part, plus 4 minutes to make up for 2 mins time-wasting.

Booking the keeper in the 88th minute when he has done it for 10 goal kicks and for over 70 minutes isnt enough of a deterrent. Lets face it everyone in the stadium knows when its been getting done, and we've all been on the receiving end or done it.

Either that or 5 seconds max to get a ball back in play once in hand or at feet, otherwise the ball goes to the opposition in the same place - that would be fun for goalkicks.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Aug 28, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Booking the keeper in the 88th minute when he has done it for 10 goal kicks and for over 70 minutes isnt enough of a deterrent. Lets face it everyone in the stadium knows when its been getting done, and we've all been on the receiving end or done it.

Either that or 5 seconds max to get a ball back in play once in hand or at feet, otherwise the ball goes to the opposition in the same place - that would be fun for goalkicks.

Click to expand...

Don't the keepers have a 6 second allowance when holding onto the ball before it must be at feet. How often do you see the oppostion players standing off a keeper when hes got the ball at his feet waiting for his team to move to something he thinks acceptable.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 28, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Don't the keepers have a 6 second allowance when holding onto the ball before it must be at feet. How often do you see the oppostion players standing off a keeper when hes got the ball at his feet waiting for his team to move to something he thinks acceptable.
		
Click to expand...

There is no 6 second rule on the keeper holding onto the ball. That was once a rule for a short while but later removed again. Nowadays the rule isn't timed, it's just the referee's discretion as to whether the keeper has hold onto it too long in order to waste time, I believe.


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 28, 2019)

This made me giggle... Being advertised at our local theatre...
An evening with Liverpool Legends...
Howard Gayle, John Barnes MBE & Emile Heskey...

There was me thinking all the daytrippers in these parts followed ManU...


----------



## Beezerk (Aug 28, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			There is no 6 second rule on the keeper holding onto the ball. That was once a rule for a short while but later removed again. Nowadays the rule isn't timed, it's just the referee's discretion as to whether the keeper has hold onto it too long in order to waste time, I believe.
		
Click to expand...

I'm a goalkeeper now (again), I really should know this rule lol. I didn't even know about the defender inside the box for goal kicks until one of the lads mentioned it last week


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 28, 2019)

I know that the biggest culprits are obviously the smaller clubs, but every big club does the same thing when something important is at stake.

For burnley in this example any chance of a point in the prem is vital. For a top club it'll be leading in a CL semi. 

Many times a big club will score in the 80th minute, having complained all the while about their opponents only to do the same once they have the lead.

I've also seen almost every team do it when playing Barca when they were at their pomp.

It's not a nice tactic, but it is one all the same. Its the same when people criticise an oponent for sitting back and playing anti footy instead of having a go and getting thumped 5-0.

If a big club doesn't win against a smaller club they need an excuse. Let's be honest. In those games they've usually still had 20 plus shots.


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 28, 2019)

Time wasting is not new... Been part of the game for time immemorial...

Some just do it better than others...


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 28, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I know that the biggest culprits are obviously the smaller clubs, but every big club does the same thing when something important is at stake.

For burnley in this example any chance of a point in the prem is vital. For a top club it'll be leading in a CL semi.

Many times a big club will score in the 80th minute, having complained all the while about their opponents only to do the same once they have the lead.

I've also seen almost every team do it when playing Barca when they were at their pomp.

It's not a nice tactic, but it is one all the same. Its the same when people criticise an oponent for sitting back and playing anti footy instead of having a go and getting thumped 5-0.

If a big club doesn't win against a smaller club they need an excuse. Let's be honest. In those games they've usually still had 20 plus shots.
		
Click to expand...

This !
Football is riddled with two faced people.
A penalty for us is never a pen for them.
Itâ€™s our ball when it clearly went of our player .
Arsenalâ€™s manager said the shirt pull by Louis was not a penalty, last year Salah would have gone down and been criticised for going down easy.
Time wasting by them is criminal but when we do it itâ€™s tactical.
Attitudes need to change not just the rules.

Maybe some form of time keeper might just stop it a bit!


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 28, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I know that the biggest culprits are obviously the smaller clubs, but every big club does the same thing when something important is at stake.

For burnley in this example any chance of a point in the prem is vital. For a top club it'll be leading in a CL semi.

Many times a big club will score in the 80th minute, having complained all the while about their opponents only to do the same once they have the lead.

I've also seen almost every team do it when playing Barca when they were at their pomp.

It's not a nice tactic, but it is one all the same. Its the same when people criticise an oponent for sitting back and playing anti footy instead of having a go and getting thumped 5-0.

If a big club doesn't win against a smaller club they need an excuse. Let's be honest. In those games they've usually still had 20 plus shots.
		
Click to expand...

As I said, we've all done it or been on the receiving end, but it still doesnt make it right to do.

Its an offence in the rules, yet refs have this "way" of dealing with it, which mainly involves booking someone only in the last 10 minutes, and never sending off for it if they carry on doing it.

One if not both sets of fans are cheated to what they are paying a lot of money for.

Worst Ive ever seen was Chelsea at Anfield.


----------



## Slime (Aug 28, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49493582

One for the Utd fans, would you have him back, is he a short term fix.
		
Click to expand...

Ooooh. I'd have him back in a heartbeat.
He also reminds me of Joe Walsh!


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 28, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			There is no 6 second rule on the keeper holding onto the ball. That was once a rule for a short while but later removed again. Nowadays the rule isn't timed, it's just the referee's discretion as to whether the keeper has hold onto it too long in order to waste time, I believe.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but where on earth do you get your football information from?

http://www.thefa.com/football-rules.../football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct

Indirect free kick
An indirect free kick is awarded if a player:

plays in a dangerous manner
impedes the progress of an opponent without any contact being made
is guilty of dissent, using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures or other verbal offences
prevents the goalkeeper from releasing the ball from the hands or kicks or attempts to kick the ball when the goalkeeper is in the process of releasing it
commits any other offence, not mentioned in the Laws, for which play is stopped to caution or send off a player
An indirect free kick is awarded if a goalkeeper, inside their penalty area, commits any of the following offences:

controls the ball with the hand/arm for more than six seconds before releasing it
touches the ball with the hand/arm after releasing it and before it has touched another player
touches the ball with the hand/arm, unless the goalkeeper has clearly kicked or attempted to kick the ball to release it into play, after:
it has been deliberately kicked to the goalkeeper by a team-mate
receiving it directly from a throw-in taken by a team-mate

A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball with the hand(s) when:

the ball is between the hands or between the hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or by touching it with any part of the hands or arms except if the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save
holding the ball in the outstretched open hand
bouncing it on the ground or throwing it in the air
A goalkeeper cannot be challenged by an opponent when in control of the ball with the hand(s).


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 28, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Sorry but where on earth do you get your football information from?

http://www.thefa.com/football-rules.../football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct

Indirect free kick
An indirect free kick is awarded if a player:

plays in a dangerous manner
impedes the progress of an opponent without any contact being made
is guilty of dissent, using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures or other verbal offences
prevents the goalkeeper from releasing the ball from the hands or kicks or attempts to kick the ball when the goalkeeper is in the process of releasing it
commits any other offence, not mentioned in the Laws, for which play is stopped to caution or send off a player
An indirect free kick is awarded if a goalkeeper, inside their penalty area, commits any of the following offences:

controls the ball with the hand/arm for more than six seconds before releasing it
touches the ball with the hand/arm after releasing it and before it has touched another player
touches the ball with the hand/arm, unless the goalkeeper has clearly kicked or attempted to kick the ball to release it into play, after:
it has been deliberately kicked to the goalkeeper by a team-mate
receiving it directly from a throw-in taken by a team-mate

A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball with the hand(s) when:

the ball is between the hands or between the hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or by touching it with any part of the hands or arms except if the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save
holding the ball in the outstretched open hand
bouncing it on the ground or throwing it in the air
A goalkeeper cannot be challenged by an opponent when in control of the ball with the hand(s).
		
Click to expand...

Oh, fair enough. Didn't realise it was still in the laws. I remember there being a big thing about it not being punished anymore though. Perhaps what I was thinking of was that's the referee's discretion as to whether he gives the free kick after 6 seconds or simply warns the goalie to get a move on.

http://www.goalkeeperhq.com/dont-abuse-the-leniency-of-the-6-second-rule/



			Almost all associations agree that the rule was not meant to be strictly reinforced, and as long as the referee deems that the goalkeeper is making a sincere effort to release the ball, there is no need to strictly enforce the 6 second rule.
		
Click to expand...

I obviously heard something like that a while ago and misinterpreted it as them removing the 6 second requirement.   It is fair to say you almost never see it given.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 28, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Oh, fair enough. Didn't realise it was still in the laws. I remember there being a big thing about it not being punished anymore though. Perhaps what I was thinking of was that's the referee's discretion as to whether he gives the free kick after 6 seconds or simply warns the goalie to get a move on.

http://www.goalkeeperhq.com/dont-abuse-the-leniency-of-the-6-second-rule/

I obviously heard something like that a while ago and misinterpreted it as them removing the 6 second requirement.   It is fair to say you almost never see it given.
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™ll let you off ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 28, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Iâ€™ll let you off ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

You may recall Mignolet famously getting done for the rule, he took up to 22 seconds before the ref finally awarded it for time-wasting.
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...simon-mignolet-explaining-six-second-10513022


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 28, 2019)

Injury luck strikes again

Antonio has been back to top form for us.. but alas 

Looks like a really bad tear of his hamstring

Operation required


----------



## User62651 (Aug 28, 2019)

Dean Saunders jailed for 10 weeks for driving blootered and refusing a breath test.
No sympathy.
Guessing the BT sport punditry ends now.
Silly man.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2019)

maxfli65 said:



			Dean Saunders jailed for 10 weeks for driving blootered and refusing a breath test.
No sympathy.
*Guessing the BT sport punditry ends now.*
Silly man.
		
Click to expand...

Anything like sky sports and theyâ€™ll give him more airtime.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Anything like sky sports and theyâ€™ll give him more airtime.
		
Click to expand...

Didn't do Collymore much harm. Or a few others. â˜¹ï¸


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 28, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Didn't do Collymore much harm. Or a few others. â˜¹ï¸
		
Click to expand...

I was thinking more like Merson crashing his car pished up on the M40 and keeping his job on Sky.


----------



## fundy (Aug 28, 2019)

have to say Iwobi looks good in the blue of Everton (well in any club shirt thats not Arsenals really  )


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 28, 2019)

Lack of goals from open play already a bit of a worry early season for Everton. Need to find something.

Oh dear, back to 2-2. What a hit that was.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 28, 2019)

fundy said:



			have to say Iwobi looks good in the blue of Everton (well in any club shirt thats not Arsenals really  )
		
Click to expand...

I like him  Honestly, have been pretty impressed with him so far, was lively at the weekend and has been excellent tonight. I like him on early form.


----------



## fundy (Aug 28, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			I like him  Honestly, have been pretty impressed with him so far, he's been really lively every appearance he's made. Early signs are good, looks our best signing based on early form.
		
Click to expand...

Im pleased for you   I really am. He does lively well, less so quality. But hey hes scored a winner in the cup, maybe we get an add on for that (surely we didnt set the bar too high)


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 28, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			I like him  Honestly, have been pretty impressed with him so far, was lively at the weekend and has been excellent tonight. I like him on early form.
		
Click to expand...

Decent finish to take the lead again. I think Everton will give him fresh impetus


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 28, 2019)

fundy said:



			Im pleased for you   I really am. He does lively well, less so quality. But hey hes scored a winner in the cup, maybe we get an add on for that (surely we didnt set the bar too high)
		
Click to expand...

He has just found a natural level now at mid table team playing against league one opponents ðŸ˜†ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 28, 2019)

Lucas Digne the difference for us again. He is our best player comfortably. One of the best free-kicks you'll see and then some excellent work down the left and a sublime cross to set up our 4th. Still believe he's one of the best attacking LBs in Europe, only a matter of time before he moves for big money to one Europe's top sides. What a signing!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 28, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Lucas Digne the difference for us again. He is our best player comfortably. One of the best free-kicks you'll see and then some excellent work down the left and a sublime cross to set up our 4th. Still believe he's one of the best attacking LBs in Europe, only a matter of time before he moves for big money to one Europe's top sides. What a signing!
		
Click to expand...

Hasnâ€™t he already been at two of Europeâ€™s top clubs - PSG and Barcelona plus Roma as well but didnâ€™t pull up trees. If clubs are looking for a left back then they will look at certainly one on Merseyside, the best in Europe ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 28, 2019)

Pompey in the cup. Looks like i know where i'm going straight from Hankley Common


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 29, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Anything like sky sports and theyâ€™ll give him more airtime.
		
Click to expand...

Sky will probably have a countdown clock until he's released.


----------



## User62651 (Aug 29, 2019)

Reported Smalling to be loaned to Roma 8 months after getting a new contract with pay increase - why would you do that as a club if you knew he wasn't up to ManU level? Seems daft.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 29, 2019)

3 RBs (TAA, Trippier and Wan Bissaka) in the England squad and 2 left-backs + Mings who can play there. We're pretty stacked at wing back considering Walker and Shaw haven't even made the squad.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 29, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			3 RBs (TAA, Trippier and Wan Bissaka) in the England squad and 2 left-backs + Mings who can play there. We're pretty stacked at wing back considering Walker and Shaw haven't even made the squad.
		
Click to expand...

Eh? Why would he drop Walker and restore Trippier??


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 29, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Eh? Why would he drop Walker and restore Trippier?? 

Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1167060809819840512


----------



## Swingalot (Aug 29, 2019)

Southgate showing he is not so different to English managers before him. AWB gets the call up as soon as he moves to a top 6 club, despite being in better form for little old Palace last season.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 29, 2019)

Swingalot said:



			Southgate showing he is not so different to English managers before him. AWB gets the call up as soon as he moves to a top 6 club, despite being in better form for little old Palace last season.
		
Click to expand...

Well I imagine it's his form generally over the last year. He unfortunately plays in probably our best-stocked position since he had Walker and Arnold to displace, not to mention Trippier who good for a while.

The squad is a bit unusual really. Three right backs and no Walker is odd, for only two games I'm not sure what you need three right backs for. Somehow Lingard is still getting in, even though he's added Maddison, Mount and Chamberlain who could all be considered to play the same position, plus Barkley is there as well. Seems a bit one-dimensional. But for all its faults, I don't think there's anyone out there (besides Walker) who's missing out who should be there. We just don't have much quality to choose from in the first place.


Edit: for anyone who hasn't seen the squad



*Goalkeepers*
Heaton, Pickford, Pope
*Defenders*
Alexander-Arnold, Chilwell, Gomez, Keane, Maguire, Mings, Rose, Trippier, Wan-Bissaka
*Midfielders*
Barkley, Henderson, Maddison, Mount, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Rice, Winks
*Forwards*
Kane, Lingard, Rashford, Sancho, Sterling, Wilson
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 29, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Anything like sky sports and theyâ€™ll give him more airtime.
		
Click to expand...

He has been released after 1 day ðŸ™„


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 29, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He has been released after 1 day ðŸ™„
		
Click to expand...

Upon appeal. He may go back in if the appeal is dismissed. 

I met him at a golf day last year. Really decent bloke, gave everyone his time, happy to answer questions and tell stories. His after dinner speech was very good. A real shame that he has tarnished himself with this.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 29, 2019)

Looks like city have got a walk over in the CL, I wonder how thick the brown envelope was ðŸ¤­


----------



## Fish (Aug 29, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Upon appeal. He may go back in if the appeal is dismissed.

I met him at a golf day last year. Really decent bloke, gave everyone his time, happy to answer questions and tell stories. His after dinner speech was very good. A real shame that he has tarnished himself with this.
		
Click to expand...

Lets hope it fails and as such gets additional time!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 29, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Upon appeal. He may go back in if the appeal is dismissed.

I met him at a golf day last year. Really decent bloke, gave everyone his time, happy to answer questions and tell stories. His after dinner speech was very good. A real shame that he has tarnished himself with this.
		
Click to expand...

Total opposite to how he was at a charity day last year - sat in the corner speaking on the phone most of the time , the other sporting celebs there like Alan McNally and Foster etc were very good


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 29, 2019)

VVD beats Messi and Ronaldo to win European Footballer of the year


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 29, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Looks like city have got a walk over in the CL, I wonder how thick the brown envelope was ðŸ¤­
		
Click to expand...

Some tasty groups and City with a bye - got to help golden boy pep find a way to win another CL.

Good to see Alisson and VVD get deserved awards


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 29, 2019)

Social media. ðŸ˜–


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 29, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1167115620028243969
ðŸ˜‚


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1167009039844331520


----------



## pokerjoke (Aug 29, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Upon appeal. He may go back in if the appeal is dismissed.

I met him at a golf day last year. Really decent bloke, gave everyone his time, happy to answer questions and tell stories. His after dinner speech was very good. A real shame that he has tarnished himself with this.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 29, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Social media. ðŸ˜–
		
Click to expand...

Step away from the memes.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 29, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Step away from the memes.
		
Click to expand...

Am sure one day it will come back to haunt me ðŸ¤”ðŸ˜


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 29, 2019)

Eric Cantonas thankyou speech. He would fit in well on here.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 30, 2019)

Did you guys see this?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1167138252475838464
He's had a mare there! Apparently he fell for a joke tweet that claimed one of their players who scored against Liverpool was an electrician.  Sacked in the morning!


----------



## Pin-seeker (Aug 30, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1167387345441742849
What a ðŸ”” ðŸ”š


----------



## fundy (Aug 31, 2019)

Gutted to see Monreal leave, wouldve much rather we kept him for this season


----------



## Slime (Aug 31, 2019)

fundy said:



			Gutted to see Monreal leave, wouldve much rather we kept him for this season
		
Click to expand...

I could say the same about Smalling ....................................... but I'd be lying!


----------



## User62651 (Aug 31, 2019)

Watching Southampton v Manu, dreary game but notice at least 2 of the saints players socks have one hoop, rest of team have two hoops on socks, error in kit allocation or white tape?


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 31, 2019)

fundy said:



			Gutted to see Monreal leave, wouldve much rather we kept him for this season
		
Click to expand...

Ditto. I would have rather sold Kolasinac.


----------



## fundy (Aug 31, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Ditto. I would have rather sold Kolasinac.
		
Click to expand...

was hoping he'd go to the US to continue being Ozils bodyguard


----------



## User62651 (Aug 31, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Ditto. I would have rather sold Kolasinac.
		
Click to expand...

He's 33, full backs need speed. You have a fine replacement in Tierney, i know Scottish footballers get some pelters but he's a steal, another Robertson potentially. 
See how Villa fans reacted to Mcginn before he arrived compared to now, you'll find similar with Arsenal/Tierney.


----------



## fundy (Aug 31, 2019)

maxfli65 said:



			He's 33, full backs need speed. You have a fine replacement in Tierney, i know Scottish footballers get some pelters but he's a steal, another Robertson potentially. 
See how Villa fans reacted to Mcginn before he arrived compared to now, you'll find similar with Arsenal/Tierney.
		
Click to expand...

This isnt about Tierney at all, this is about cover both whilst Tierney still isnt available and also at centre half where Monreal has done as good a job as any the last couple of years (low bar i accept). Always gives his all, decent team guy and gets plenty of attacking return for his position too


----------



## User62651 (Aug 31, 2019)

fundy said:



			This isnt about Tierney at all, this is about cover both whilst Tierney still isnt available and also at centre half where Monreal has done as good a job as any the last couple of years (low bar i accept). Always gives his all, decent team guy and gets plenty of attacking return for his position too
		
Click to expand...

Homesick? Can't face another UK winter? Or is club looking to reduce wage bill?


----------



## fundy (Aug 31, 2019)

maxfli65 said:



			Homesick? Can't face another UK winter? Or is club looking to reduce wage bill?
		
Click to expand...

Last year of contract and Arsenal werent offering a new one because of age, 2 year contract on offer in Spain. Was "only" on 70k so not a huge amount off the wage bill (also known as 20% of an Ozil  )  Still think he shouldnt have been allowed to leave until Tierney fully fit


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 31, 2019)

shocking tackle from saints player.
It could have been a straight red but to do that when already booked?
Has let his team down there as they were getting good possession.


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 31, 2019)

Worst looking Chelsea squad in years, Zouma, Mount, Barkley, and Ok he scored a brace today but Abraham Really?

Lampard needs a miracle to finish top 6 with that lot. I hope he stays a long time though lol ðŸ˜‚


----------



## chrisd (Aug 31, 2019)

Can we please stop the league season today - 4th I'd take that ðŸ‘ðŸ‘ðŸ‘


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 31, 2019)

2-0 today 

Great performance 

Could have and should have been 5 or 6 today .. krul kept it close


----------



## fundy (Aug 31, 2019)

chrisd said:



			Can we please stop the league season today - 4th I'd take that ðŸ‘ðŸ‘ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Friend MOTM for you guys?


----------



## Robin Hood (Aug 31, 2019)

The Toon are out of the relegation zone ðŸ˜€
Next match against Liverpool - bring it on ðŸ˜¬


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2019)

Just get rid of VAR - how on Earth they didnâ€™t overturn that Villa disallowed goal Iâ€™ll never know - bring in technology to apparently ensure now obvious errors and yet every week it happens


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 31, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Worst looking Chelsea squad in years, Zouma, Mount, Barkley, and Ok he scored a brace today but Abraham Really?

Lampard needs a miracle to finish top 6 with that lot. I hope he stays a long time though lol ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Mount and Abraham have been excellent this season - been really impressed from what I've seen of Abraham especially. Zouma's been dreadful but Barkley's hardly had a game, and the fella on Final Score said he was unlucky to be taken off after having an excellent game to that point. Their worst players have been Azpilicueta, Zouma and Kepa. I think in Kante, Abraham, Pulisic, Emerson, Mount, Kovacic and Jorginho they've got a more than decent core, just needs building on. They've got to give Lampard time.


----------



## chrisd (Aug 31, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just get rid of VAR - how on Earth they didnâ€™t overturn that Villa disallowed goal Iâ€™ll never know - bring in technology to apparently ensure now obvious errors and yet every week it happens
		
Click to expand...

Cos he dived, he got booked for it ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 31, 2019)

Firmino with a bit of confidence is a joy to watch. Has come to life in the 2nd half, and a cracking finish. Clinical performance from Liverpool this.


----------



## Fade and Die (Aug 31, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			2-0 today

Great performance

Could have and should have been 5 or 6 today .. krul kept it close
		
Click to expand...


Yes thrashed them 2-0. Was surprised how poor Naartch was. Anderson was superb. As was Noble. Donâ€™t know if they have toned the VAR down but there wasnâ€™t a single delay today.


----------



## Rlburnside (Aug 31, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Firmino with a bit of confidence is a joy to watch. Has come to life in the 2nd half, and a cracking finish. Clinical performance from Liverpool this.
		
Click to expand...

Clinical finishing yes, Burnley done ok first half,  but for two stupid mistakes they could half gone in at half time 0-0. 

If Salah hadnâ€™t been so greedy twice and passed to Mane they would have won 4-0.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2019)

Well thatâ€™s a good start to the first part of the season before the international break - 12 points out of 12 ðŸ‘


----------



## Fish (Aug 31, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Mount and Abraham have been excellent this season - been really impressed from what I've seen of Abraham especially. Zouma's been dreadful but Barkley's hardly had a game, and the fella on Final Score said he was unlucky to be taken off after having an excellent game to that point. Their worst players have been Azpilicueta, Zouma and Kepa. I think in Kante, Abraham, Pulisic, Emerson, Mount, Kovacic and Jorginho they've got a more than decent core, just needs building on. They've got to give Lampard time.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, I watched the game, and when we can add Rudiger, Kante, Pedro and Reece to that core weâ€™ll kick on a gear. Just got to keep there or there aboutâ€™s whilst injuries come back and new partnerships are formed. If not for a brilliant save Abraham would have had a hatrick and then af 3-nil I think the game was won, but we sat back a little and I didnâ€™t agree with the late double sub, I think that cost us the late goal, but Zouma isnâ€™t the same player, and azpiâ€™s legs are gone, his commitment is undeniable, heâ€™s been a great servant but we need a different right back ASAP.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Worst looking Chelsea squad in years, Zouma, Mount, Barkley, and Ok he scored a brace today but Abraham Really?

Lampard needs a miracle to finish top 6 with that lot. I hope he stays a long time though lol ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Donâ€™t think the squad is that bad , some very bright exciting young talent with just a few mistakes at the back , expect they are going to push very well for the top 4 spot. Arsenal have the same issues and going to be tight with them. 

Seems the young lad Zouma has been subjected to racist abuse on Twitter - something needs to be done to stop these supposed â€œfansâ€ racially abusing their own players when they make a mistake 


chrisd said:



			Cos he dived, he got booked for it ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

It was shocking , clearly got clipped , tried staying on his feet got the pass away - both Friend and the VAR ref should be suspended - criminal


----------



## anotherdouble (Aug 31, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Mount and Abraham have been excellent this season - been really impressed from what I've seen of Abraham especially. Zouma's been dreadful but Barkley's hardly had a game, and the fella on Final Score said he was unlucky to be taken off after having an excellent game to that point. Their worst players have been Azpilicueta, Zouma and Kepa. I think in Kante, Abraham, Pulisic, Emerson, Mount, Kovacic and Jorginho they've got a more than decent core, just needs building on. They've got to give Lampard time.
		
Click to expand...

Donâ€™t worry about him Dan, he is usually only on here til late jan, then hibernates until August after his lot are out of everything. Everybody just tolerates his drivel as itâ€™s not for longðŸ‘


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 31, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Firmino with a bit of confidence is a joy to watch. Has come to life in the 2nd half, and a cracking finish. Clinical performance from Liverpool this.
		
Click to expand...

I thought it was a pretty poor game to stop start.
We put our chances away ,thatâ€™s good .
We never got out of second gear.
But 12 pts is all that counts.
Mane didnâ€™t look to pleased with Salah or Klopp hard to tell, .


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 31, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Worst looking Chelsea squad in years, Zouma, Mount, Barkley, and Ok he scored a brace today but Abraham Really?

Lampard needs a miracle to finish top 6 with that lot. I hope he stays a long time though lol ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

It's always going to be hard with the current squad and the transfer embargo so I think Chelsea need to be patient. Perhaps top 6 is a big ask but I think the youngsters can only improve with regular playing time


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 31, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Worst looking Chelsea squad in years, Zouma, Mount, Barkley, and Ok he scored a brace today but Abraham Really?

Lampard needs a miracle to finish top 6 with that lot. I hope he stays a long time though lol ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Almost The same squad that stopped your lot from getting CL football though.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 31, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Firmino with a bit of confidence is a joy to watch. Has come to life in the 2nd half, and a cracking finish. Clinical performance from Liverpool this.
		
Click to expand...

Bobby doesnâ€™t get the credit he deserves, probably due to his lack of goals. Heâ€™s a fantastic footballer, proper player and makes it look easy. Love watching him.


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 31, 2019)

Pal of mine went to the Chelsea game today, he has since put a post on FB saying he is not a betting man, but he will bet Sheff Utd do not go down. He was very impressed. I was as equally Impressed with Brighton. Ave had this thought for a season or so. The days of mick McCarthy, big Sam, Mark Hughes, are surely long gone. I am now seeing " lesser" PREM teams, and there's no way I mean it in a derogatory sense. That are coming to City, they are organised and playing good football. Probably the only young English manager breaking the mould is Eddie Howe at Bournemouth. Would love to see Brightons possession time today. If Brighton could of found someone to finish today, hmmmmm. Probably seen the save of the season today, from Fernandinho ðŸ˜‚
 Watch MOTD. ðŸ˜ðŸ‘


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 31, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Pal of mine went to the Chelsea game today, he has since put a post on FB saying he is not a betting man, but he will bet Sheff Utd do not go down. He was very impressed. I was as equally Impressed with Brighton. Ave had this thought for a season or so. The days of mick McCarthy, big Sam, Mark Hughes, are surely long gone. I am now seeing " lesser" PREM teams, and there's no way I mean it in a derogatory sense. That are coming to City, they are organised and playing good football. Probably the only young English manager breaking the mould is Eddie Howe at Bournemouth. Would love to see Brightons possession time today. If Brighton could of found someone to finish today, hmmmmm. Probably seen the save of the season today, from Fernandinho ðŸ˜‚
 Watch MOTD. ðŸ˜ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

They had 46% https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49456557


----------



## fundy (Aug 31, 2019)

Cant find a lower leagues thread this year, thoughts on Harry Arter last night Homie?


----------



## Tashyboy (Aug 31, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			They had 46% https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49456557

Click to expand...

Thought so Homer


----------



## Fish (Aug 31, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Pal of mine went to the Chelsea game today, he has since put a post on FB saying he is not a betting man, but he will bet Sheff Utd do not go down. He was very impressed.
		
Click to expand...

Robinson was a real handful, heâ€™s going to be a very good prospect, can see them struggling to hold on to him. 

Theyâ€™re hard to break down, they work hard for each other, you need to move the ball quickly otherwise they swamp you. 

RLC would have been a game changer in this type of game game, someone I didnâ€™t mention earlier, and also CHO, when these players are back fit Frank will have a much stronger squad to select from. 

Those that are writing us off and criticising us are obviously concerned, Iâ€™m happy to bet them that weâ€™ll finish above their club and doubled it up to be the highest London club in the PL ðŸ‘ðŸ˜ŽðŸ’™


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2019)

Fish said:



*Robinson was a real handful, heâ€™s going to be a very good prospect, can see them struggling to hold on to him.*

Theyâ€™re hard to break down, they work hard for each other, you need to move the ball quickly otherwise they swamp you.

RLC would have been a game changer in this type of game game, someone I didnâ€™t mention earlier, and also CHO, when these players are back fit Frank will have a much stronger squad to select from.

Those that are writing us off and criticising us are obviously concerned, Iâ€™m happy to bet them that weâ€™ll finish above their club and doubled it up to be the highest London club in the PL ðŸ‘ðŸ˜ŽðŸ’™
		
Click to expand...

Callum Robinson? He is in his mid 20â€™s now , wasnâ€™t a big scorer with Preston 

Big shout to say you will be above Spurs ?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 31, 2019)

fundy said:



			Cant find a lower leagues thread this year, thoughts on Harry Arter last night Homie?
		
Click to expand...

The simple answer is he was stupid after being booked. I think the initial card was fair but while I thought there was a touch on him, I can see why the referee thought it was simulation but it could have been called as a foul on him as well. One of those you enjoy when it's the other side and one you get mad at when your player does it. Gritty performance against a typical Warnock physical side to get the draw


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 31, 2019)

Fish said:



			Robinson was a real handful, heâ€™s going to be a very good prospect, can see them struggling to hold on to him.

Theyâ€™re hard to break down, they work hard for each other, you need to move the ball quickly otherwise they swamp you.

RLC would have been a game changer in this type of game game, someone I didnâ€™t mention earlier, and also CHO, when these players are back fit Frank will have a much stronger squad to select from.

Those that are writing us off and criticising us are obviously concerned, *Iâ€™m happy to bet them that weâ€™ll finish above their club *and doubled it up to be the highest London club in the PL ðŸ‘ðŸ˜ŽðŸ’™
		
Click to expand...


Iâ€™ll have a ton with you Fishy ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Fish (Aug 31, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Callum Robinson? He is in his mid 20â€™s now , wasnâ€™t a big scorer with Preston

Big shout to say you will be above Spurs ?
		
Click to expand...

Well he was excellent today, he could have caused us a lot more trouble, not seen him before, I donâ€™t watch or read about Preston, maybe he plays better in a different system and/or with better players now at SU? He was impressive, irrelevant of his background, which doesnâ€™t always tell a story, just look at the transformation in Kov and Jorginho to the stick they were getting last season! 

Kante, Pedro, CHO, James, RLC all not far away from returning, theyâ€™ll make a huge difference to what I think is already a very good mix of experience and youth and with what Iâ€™ve seen of Spurs and Arsenal, and knowing how they both choke towards the end, weâ€™ll go from strength to strength as the season goes on, yes theyâ€™ll be some bumps that sone will jump on, but I think weâ€™re going to surprise a lot of people once our injuries dry up.


----------



## Fish (Aug 31, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Iâ€™ll have a ton with you Fishy ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

Youâ€™re not â€˜one of themâ€™ or one of those clubs supporters. read the post and who itâ€™s aimed at.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 31, 2019)

Fish said:



			Youâ€™re not â€˜one of themâ€™ or one of those clubs supporters. read the post and who itâ€™s aimed at.
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ worth a try


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 31, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Almost The same squad that stopped your lot from getting CL football though.
		
Click to expand...

We stopped ourselves lol.

Just saying how I see it, far too many players that arenâ€™t at the usual level for Chelsea and never will be.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 31, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			We stopped ourselves lol.

Just saying how I see it, far too many players that arenâ€™t at the usual level for Chelsea and never will be.
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s obvious because theyâ€™ve been used to going out and buying top players, regardless of cost.

 The positive to the ban is Chelsea sticking with their youth/younger players and giving them a real chance. They may not be successful in the short term but long term, I think itâ€™ll benefit Chelsea.


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 31, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Thatâ€™s obvious because theyâ€™ve been used to going out and buying top players, regardless of cost.

 The positive to the ban is Chelsea sticking with their youth/younger players and giving them a real chance. They may not be successful in the short term but long term, I think itâ€™ll benefit Chelsea.
		
Click to expand...

These are not exceptional young players though, thatâ€™s obvious too.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 31, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			These are not exceptional young players though, thatâ€™s obvious too.
		
Click to expand...

I never said they were, but Mount looks as good as anything Arsenal have brought through.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 31, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I never said they were, but Mount looks as good as anything Arsenal have brought through.
		
Click to expand...

Same with Abraham. 4 in 4 in the PL this season, 25 in the Championship last season, looked excellent against United another 2 goals today, I think he could be a real star up top for Chelsea. In Him, Mount, Pulisic and Hudson-Odoi they've got a young and seriously talented attacking batch of players.


----------



## Paperboy (Aug 31, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			It's always going to be hard with the current squad and the transfer embargo so I think Chelsea need to be patient. Perhaps top 6 is a big ask but I think the youngsters can only improve with regular playing time
		
Click to expand...

Going to call this out, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd are all fighting for fourth place. They will all make top 6 willing to bet money towards HFH that this is the case.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 31, 2019)

Paperboy said:



			Going to call this out, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd are all fighting for fourth place. They will all make top 6 willing to bet money towards HFH that this is the case.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. They're all strong in areas but they all have glaring weaknesses and I think it's going to be a close battle between the 3 of them. I think Everton, Wolves, Leicester and maybe even West Ham will push them but ultimately all fall outside the top 6.


----------



## Paperboy (Aug 31, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Agreed. They're all strong in areas but they all have glaring weaknesses and I think it's going to be a close battle between the 3 of them. I think Everton, Wolves, Leicester and maybe even West Ham will push them but ultimately all fall outside the top 6.
		
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with you but I think those three clubs have a little more quality then the others you mentioned.

But they do have a capacity to challenge for top 5 - 6. Hence my statement about the top 6 finisher.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 31, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Same with Abraham. 4 in 4 in the PL this season, 25 in the Championship last season, looked excellent against United another 2 goals today, I think he could be a real star up top for Chelsea. In Him, Mount, Pulisic and Hudson-Odoi they've got a young and seriously talented attacking batch of players.
		
Click to expand...

The championship is a good step below PL football. No doubt Abraham will score goals, I just donâ€™t think heâ€™ll make it and be Chelseaâ€™s no.9 for 10 seasons.

Mount looks like heâ€™ll be in that midfield easily for the next 10 seasons.


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 31, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Same with Abraham. 4 in 4 in the PL this season, 25 in the Championship last season, looked excellent against United another 2 goals today, I think he could be a real star up top for Chelsea. In Him, Mount, Pulisic and Hudson-Odoi they've got a young and seriously talented attacking batch of players.
		
Click to expand...

Abraham will be playing for a smaller PL club or even a championship side within a few years, mark my words.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 31, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Abraham will be playing for a smaller PL club or even a championship side within a few years, mark my words.
		
Click to expand...

And Holden will be England's cb for a decade......


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 31, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			And Holden will be England's cb for a decade......
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ he was lauding him like he was Beckenbauer....


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 31, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Abraham will be playing for a smaller PL club or even a championship side within a few years, mark my words.
		
Click to expand...

Arsenal ðŸ˜‰


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 31, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			And Holden will be England's cb for a decade......
		
Click to expand...

Stick by that tooðŸ‘


----------



## sawtooth (Aug 31, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ he was lauding him like he was Beckenbauer....
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s a bit unfair, Holding was looking great before his injury and what I actually said was that he will turn out to be better than Stones - I stick by that.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 31, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Stick by that tooðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 31, 2019)

The offside rule  needs  sorting out ASAP. 

Another offside decision that shouldâ€™ve been flagged for but play was a allowed to carry on then a corner was given afterwards. I understand the theory but itâ€™s just not suitable.

Or is it going to take a howler and a team lose a game  before anythingâ€™s done about it.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 31, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Thatâ€™s a bit unfair, Holding was looking great before his injury and what I actually said was that he will turn out to be better than Stones - I stick by that.
		
Click to expand...

If my memory serves me right, you made this comment after Holding had played about 20 mins in a friendly and had been relegated with Bolton the previous season. ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## davemc1 (Aug 31, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Bobby doesnâ€™t get the credit he deserves, probably due to his lack of goals. Heâ€™s a fantastic footballer, proper player and makes it look easy. Love watching him.
		
Click to expand...

Who from bro?


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Who from bro?
		
Click to expand...

Generally. I know the media talk about the front 3 but they tend to lead with â€œLiverpoolâ€™s front 3 blah blah blah, Salah and Mane yadda  yadda  yadda â€œ


----------



## davemc1 (Sep 1, 2019)

Canâ€™t believe no ones mentioned that cart horse over priced vvd getting had off by jay rodrigez. 

Canâ€™t believe we let Chris smelling go to AS Roma without putting an offer in ðŸ˜¡


----------



## davemc1 (Sep 1, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Generally. I know the media talk about the front 3 but they tend to lead with â€œLiverpoolâ€™s front 3 blah blah blah, Salah and Mane yadda  yadda  yadda â€œ
		
Click to expand...


Do you care what the general media/public think about any of our players? The more understated the better for me


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 1, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Generally. I know the media talk about the front 3 but they tend to lead with â€œLiverpoolâ€™s front 3 blah blah blah, Salah and Mane yadda  yadda  yadda â€œ
		
Click to expand...

Bobby does a lot of his work in the hole between midfield and strikers .
I think thatâ€™s why he dosnt get the credit he deserves heâ€™s more like a 10 than a CF.
But it works most of the time. His work rate is fantastic.

Watched motd some shocking decisions there and VAR not working like it should.


----------



## sawtooth (Sep 1, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			If my memory serves me right, you made this comment after Holding had played about 20 mins in a friendly and had been relegated with Bolton the previous season. ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Your memory fails you ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Your memory fails you ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Heâ€™d definitely only just signed for Arsenal, Iâ€™ll find your quote tomorrow if the gestappo havenâ€™t locked the thread ðŸ˜‰ðŸ‘ðŸ»


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Your memory fails you ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/threads/and-were-off-2016-17.85762/page-49

Looks like my memory is in tip top shape  ðŸ˜‰ 

Iâ€™ve had a giggle reading some of the shyte posted in their by some.....


----------



## sawtooth (Sep 1, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/threads/and-were-off-2016-17.85762/page-49

Looks like my memory is in tip top shape  ðŸ˜‰



Iâ€™ve had a giggle reading some of the shyte posted in their by some.....
		
Click to expand...

I think I made a snap judgement about Ben Woodburn too, do you remember that?

Something about him not making it at Liverpool. ðŸ‘


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 1, 2019)

Interesting how this has changed since the post in 2016:




			Goalkeeper: Gianluigi Buffon (Â£32.6m, Parma - Juventus 2001)

Right-back: Dani Alves (Â£27.5m, Sevilla - Barcelona 2008)

Centre-back: David Luiz (Â£50m, Chelsea - Paris St-Germain 2014)

Centre-back: John Stones (Â£47.5m, Everton - Manchester City 2016)

Left-back: Luke Shaw (Â£27m, Southampton - Manchester United 2014)

Right midfield: Angel di Maria (Â£59.7m, Real Madrid - Manchester United 2014)

Centre midfield: Paul Pogba (Â£89m. Juventus - Manchester United 2016)

Left midfield: James Rodriguez (Â£63m, Monaco - Real Madrid 2014)

Right forward: Cristiano Ronaldo (Â£80m, Manchester United - Real Madrid 2009)

Centre forward: Gonzalo Higuain (Â£76.5m, Napoli - Juventus 2016)

Left forward: Gareth Bale (Â£85.3m, Tottenham - Real Madrid 2013)
Read more at https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/threads/and-were-off-2016-17.85762/page-49#yIRkrIbqh2plI0xY.99

Click to expand...

Goalkeeper: Kepa (Â£72m to Chelsea)

Right-back: Jose Cancelo (Â£58.5m to United)

Left-back: Benjamin Mendy (Â£51.75m to City)

Centre-back: Harry Maguire (Â£78.3m to United)

Centre-back: Matthijs de Ligt (Â£76.95m to Juve)

Centre midfield: Paul Pogba (Â£89m to United)

Attacking-midfield: Coutinho (Â£130m to Barca)

Left-wing: Neymar (Â£199m to PSG)

Right-wing: Kylian Mbappe (Â£121m to PSG)

Centre-forward: Joao Felix (Â£113m to Atletico)

Striker: Cristiano Ronaldo (Â£105m to Juve)

Changed the format a little and some of the positions, but crazy how much fees have changed in 3 years.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 1, 2019)

Tielemans, Leicester,  no red card ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜±. Wow, just wow. An absolute leg breaker.


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Sep 1, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Heâ€™d definitely only just signed for Arsenal, Iâ€™ll find your quote tomorrow if the gestappo havenâ€™t locked the thread ðŸ˜‰ðŸ‘ðŸ»
		
Click to expand...

Appreciate the love ðŸ˜¡


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 1, 2019)

The villa disallowed goal Is one of the worst decisions i have ever seen. Shocking.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			The villa disallowed goal Is one of the worst decisions i have ever seen. Shocking.
		
Click to expand...

Donâ€™t worry VAR will sort it out , oh hang on....


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			I think I made a snap judgement about Ben Woodburn too, do you remember that?

Something about him not making it at Liverpool. ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

No I donâ€™t but a massive congratulations for being right ðŸ‘ðŸ» Post #767 in particularly made me chuckle ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2019)

Too easy for Traore to fly past Europeâ€™s best LB ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 1, 2019)

It's not over yet but Everton looking so much better balanced now that Bernard has come on. Too scrappy before then, no flow to either team.


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 1, 2019)

Flipping useless.


----------



## fundy (Sep 1, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Flipping useless.
		
Click to expand...

bad enough with Luiz having clowns feet on, seems hes given Leno a matching pair of gloves


----------



## Fish (Sep 1, 2019)

fundy said:



			bad enough with Luiz having clowns feet on, seems hes given Leno a matching pair of gloves 

Click to expand...


----------



## fundy (Sep 1, 2019)

get some new memes fishy you posted that last week


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 1, 2019)

Flipping heck, this is rubbish. Xakha is an idiot. Can we not just bin him off.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2019)

Xakhahahahahaha....wtf was he doing?


----------



## fundy (Sep 1, 2019)

some things just dont change do they, look utterly clueless through the middle against any half decent sides yet again and the answer was to buy a clown to make things worse sigh

get ceballos on for doozi asap plse


----------



## Fish (Sep 1, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			We stopped ourselves lol.

Just saying how I see it, far too many players that arenâ€™t at the usual level for Chelsea and never will be.
		
Click to expand...

Going by this performance theyâ€™ll piss all over your parade ðŸ˜œðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ’™


----------



## fundy (Sep 1, 2019)

Fish said:



			Going by this performance theyâ€™ll piss all over your parade ðŸ˜œðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ’™
		
Click to expand...

i know were bad but not sure were worse than Sheff Utd already


----------



## fundy (Sep 1, 2019)

sets up the 2nd half a bit better  we just need 3 or 4 more now


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2019)

Neville slating Sanchez for the clearance, I blame Lamela for being on his heels and not anticipating the out ball.

Good half of football for the Neutrals.


----------



## sawtooth (Sep 1, 2019)

2 mistakes gifted Spurs 2 goals.

Good response from Arsenal , this game isnâ€™t finished yet.


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 1, 2019)

Laca is so good at that. Not easy, so why blame defenders, clearance etc. Why not praise Laca for a great few touches.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2019)

fundy said:



			some things just dont change do they, look utterly clueless through the middle against any half decent sides yet again and the answer was to buy a clown to make things worse sigh

get ceballos on for doozi asap plse
		
Click to expand...

This game may be too quick for him today, he needs time to settle.


----------



## fundy (Sep 1, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			This game may be too quick for him today, he needs time to settle.
		
Click to expand...

well its too quick for the 3 in there currently lol, need someone who can put their foot on it and create, if only we were paying someone 350k a week to do that role


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2019)

fundy said:



			well its too quick for the 3 in there currently lol, need someone who can put their foot on it and create, if only we were paying someone 350k a week to do that role
		
Click to expand...

Would suit a Ramsey or Ox ðŸ˜‰


----------



## fundy (Sep 1, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Would suit a Ramsey or Ox ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

youre as bad as Fishy ffs!!


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 1, 2019)

Why is Kola so far up field all the time?  It's a back 4. He is meant to be a part of it.


----------



## fundy (Sep 1, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Why is Kola so far up field all the time?  It's a back 4. He is meant to be a part of it.
		
Click to expand...

we dont pick defenders for their defensive positioning lol


----------



## Captainron (Sep 1, 2019)

I hope one of the big clubs go in for Son. Heâ€™s by far and away the best player at Spurs. Imagine what a career he could have. 

He could actually win a trophy


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 1, 2019)

Poch looks ready to come on. Why is he wearing a tracksuit?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Sep 1, 2019)

Captainron said:



			I hope one of the big clubs go in for Son. Heâ€™s by far and away the best player at Spurs. Imagine what a career he could have.

He could actually win a trophy
		
Click to expand...

Is he by far better than Kane & Eriksen?


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 1, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			Is he by far better than Kane & Eriksen?
		
Click to expand...

In my view, yes.


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 1, 2019)

Auba, class.


----------



## Captainron (Sep 1, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			Is he by far better than Kane & Eriksen?
		
Click to expand...

Heck yeah.


----------



## fundy (Sep 1, 2019)

Get in Aubam

Expect this will be a fun 15 mins for the neutrals!!!


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2019)

fundy said:



			Get in Aubam

Expect this will be a fun 15 mins for the neutrals!!!
		
Click to expand...

Ceballos changed the game.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2019)

fundy said:



			youre as bad as Fishy ffs!!
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s harsh Iâ€™m only taking the pish, he believes everything he saysðŸ˜†


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 1, 2019)

Son off. Odd choice.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 1, 2019)

This is a great chance for Arsenal to win this but not taking at the moment- Xhaka really is stealing a living


----------



## Captainron (Sep 1, 2019)

Got to ask why the rugby tackle on Alli wasnâ€™t reviewed?  

Is it ref only VAR?


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 1, 2019)

Xhaka, tactical foul, fair enough.


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 1, 2019)

Nice dive.


----------



## fundy (Sep 1, 2019)

Ali or Kane

who dives the worst lol


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 1, 2019)

So why hasnâ€™t he been booked then ? Thatâ€™s the same sort of dive as last week from Kane - same with Ali as well with his dive 

Just a lack of composure from Arsenal has stopped them from winning this - plenty of chances to create something and just poor choice at the end


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2019)

fundy said:



			Ali or Kane

who dives the worst lol
		
Click to expand...

Salah ðŸ˜‚


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 1, 2019)

Entertaining, but it was there to be taken.


----------



## fundy (Sep 1, 2019)

Sums us up that game in a nutshell, exciting going forward, brainless in the middle and soft at the back. Going to be quite a few high scoring games with us this year.


----------



## fundy (Sep 1, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Salah ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

yeah Lacazette in the reckoning too ðŸ˜²


----------



## adam6177 (Sep 1, 2019)

Copy and paste my comments on Kane's dive from last week... What the hell is wrong with him.


----------



## Dando (Sep 1, 2019)

Another dive from Kane


----------



## Fish (Sep 1, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			Copy and paste my comments on Kane's dive from last week... What the hell is wrong with him.
		
Click to expand...

Nothing, heâ€™s a natural cheat.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2019)

Spurs


Liverpoolphil said:



*So why hasnâ€™t he been booked then* ? Thatâ€™s the same sort of dive as last week from Kane - same with Ali as well with his dive

Just a lack of composure from Arsenal has stopped them from winning this - plenty of chances to create something and just poor choice at the end
		
Click to expand...

Ingurland Captains always get a free ride.


----------



## sawtooth (Sep 1, 2019)

Take that after being 2 nil down, dominated the last 30 minutes and Spurs were very much hanging on.

Shameful dive from Kane and it wonâ€™t stop if the ref wonâ€™t issue yellow cards for them.

Arsenal need to cut out the silly mistakes and weâ€™ll be fine. 

Laca and Guendouzi stood out today, great performance by both.

Pepe is a handful and iits only a matter of time before he finds the end product.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			Copy and paste my comments on Kane's dive from last week... What the hell is wrong with him.
		
Click to expand...

Heâ€™s just naturally crap at diving. He obviously hasnâ€™t been watching Hazard for the last 6 seasons ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2019)

Captainron said:



			Got to ask why the rugby tackle on Alli wasnâ€™t reviewed? 

Is it ref only VAR?
		
Click to expand...

The refs didnâ€™t not know how to use it I think....


----------



## Fish (Sep 1, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Big shout to say you will be above Spurs ?
		
Click to expand...

Only goal difference separates us, and weâ€™ve got players coming back from injury which will strengthen us, what you see is everything Spurs have got, currently!


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 1, 2019)

Fish said:



			Only goal difference separates us, and weâ€™ve got players coming back from injury which will strengthen us, what you see is everything Spurs have got, currently!
		
Click to expand...

To be fair you not even above us ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Fish (Sep 1, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			To be fair you not even above us ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Ffs, youâ€™ll drop like a stone soon enough. 
#YoYoClub 
ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Pin-seeker (Sep 1, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Heâ€™s just naturally crap at diving. He obviously hasnâ€™t been watching Hazard for the last 6 seasons ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ Top Bantz


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Take that after being 2 nil down, dominated the last 30 minutes and Spurs were very much hanging on.

Shameful dive from Kane and it wonâ€™t stop if the ref wonâ€™t issue yellow cards for them.

*Arsenal need to cut out the silly mistakes and weâ€™ll be fine.*

Laca and Guendouzi stood out today, great performance by both.

Pepe is a handful and iits only a matter of time before he finds the end product.
		
Click to expand...

They were making those same mistakes under Wenger, with a better squad.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 1, 2019)

Fish said:



			Only goal difference separates us, and weâ€™ve got players coming back from injury which will strengthen us, what you see is everything Spurs have got, currently!
		
Click to expand...

One is very young player who has hardly played first team football - I donâ€™t think you will get much more , the issue Chelsea will have is a consistent striker - Abraham and Giroud arenâ€™t going to get enough and Spurs are way below par at the moment yet - a lot more to come from them


----------



## Wolf (Sep 1, 2019)

Take that result after 2-0 down, we're making progress as a team when we have the ball now but alas the silly mistakes without it are still there but hopefully we'll continue to improve


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2019)

Are Spurs out of the title race now?


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 1, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Are Spurs out of the title race now?
		
Click to expand...

I wasn't aware that they were ever in it. 

After this weekend it is clearer than ever that it is just a two horse race.

None of the three London sides have anything even approaching a League winning defence.


----------



## Slime (Sep 1, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Are Spurs out of the title race now?
		
Click to expand...

Were they even in it?


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 1, 2019)

Fish said:



			Nothing, heâ€™s a natural cheat.
		
Click to expand...

I just think he takes a mean penalty, but beyond that, is bang average. If he can 'win' a penalty, he will score, if he stays on his feet, he won't.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Sep 1, 2019)

Just listened to an Arsenal fan who had phoned in to Radio 5 after the game. He claimed that "man for man Arsenal were a better team than Liverpool" and that they would win the league this year. The presenter asked if he'd rather have Socratis/VVD, Leno/Allison or Pepe/Salah. The caller picked the 3 Arsenal players and said he didn't rate VVD and that Salah needed 20 shots in a game to score 2. For a few minutes I thought that maybe Sawtooth had called in.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 1, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			Copy and paste my comments on Kane's dive from last week... What the hell is wrong with him.
		
Click to expand...

Chalk and cheese for me. Last week he was taken out. This one, I'd say he definitely attempted to wait for a clumsy challenge so he could go down. Sokratis did shove him, but not enough contact for a penalty, ref got this one right.

Annoying to let the two goal lead go, but there was always going to be goals at both ends today. Would have taken a draw at the start so I'll take it now as well. Great game for the neutrals I'm sure. Not great for my nerves. 

Xhaka is absolutely horrendous. If he didn't have that left boot of his, what level would he be playing at?? We'd probably have never heard of him.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 1, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			I just think he takes a mean penalty, but beyond that, is bang average. If he can 'win' a penalty, he will score, if he stays on his feet, he won't.
		
Click to expand...

He's 26 and only 12 people have more goals than him in Premier League history. But yeah, average.


----------



## Rlburnside (Sep 1, 2019)

Fish said:



			Nothing, heâ€™s a natural cheat.
		
Click to expand...

Your old boy Hazard was one of the best at diving, Kane is no better/ worse than him, senseless calling one player out when they all do it.


----------



## Bazzatron (Sep 1, 2019)

Two individual errors cost us a point. Can't give gifts out like that, get punished. 

Best part of the day was having a scouse pie. Lovely little surprise that was. Kept that a secret lads. Beautiful stuff.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 1, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1168221123755929600
The boy is clearly sniffing something


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 1, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1168221123755929600
The boy is clearly sniffing something
		
Click to expand...

Haha, wow. If you have a debate with Robbie Savage and you come off looking like the maniac then something's seriously wrong.


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 1, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Haha, wow. If you have a debate with Robbie Savage and you come off looking like the maniac then something's seriously wrong. 

Click to expand...

Depends when you call up to argue for Kaneâ€™s latest dive ðŸ˜¬ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Rlburnside (Sep 1, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Chalk and cheese for me. Last week he was taken out. This one, I'd say he definitely attempted to wait for a clumsy challenge so he could go down. Sokratis did shove him, but not enough contact for a penalty, ref got this one right.

Annoying to let the two goal lead go, but there was always going to be goals at both ends today. Would have taken a draw at the start so I'll take it now as well. Great game for the neutrals I'm sure. Not great for my nerves.

Xhaka is absolutely horrendous. If he didn't have that left boot of his, what level would he be playing at?? We'd probably have never heard of him.
		
Click to expand...

Given we got points away to City and Arsenal youâ€™d think that would imply we are playing well, but Iâ€™m worried now. 

Something doesnâ€™t seem right with the team , bar Winks we looked sluggish and no cohesion also gave the ball away to much and played to deep in the second half. 

Perhaps it is down to Ericsson being unsettled but it shouldnâ€™t be. 

It can only get better.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 1, 2019)

So it appears that OGS currently has the worst win ratio of any Man Utd manager ( 18% ?!)and they havenâ€™t won away since Feb ?!

Ole at the wheel


----------



## ColchesterFC (Sep 1, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1168221123755929600
The boy is clearly sniffing something
		
Click to expand...

That's the guy I was talking about above. The bit about preferring to have Luiz than VVD is comedy gold. Although I think it's a bit harsh to say he's been sniffing something. He could equally have mental issues. But there's something definitely not right going on in his head if he actually believes that.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 1, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			Two individual errors cost us a point. Can't give gifts out like that, get punished.

Best part of the day was having a scouse pie. Lovely little surprise that was. Kept that a secret lads. Beautiful stuff.
		
Click to expand...

I thought Cutrone was a real handful today, I was surprised when he came off. 

Both teams played in bursts today, we just had a few more. Both need to step up if we are going to break into the next level.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 1, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			Given we got points away to City and Arsenal youâ€™d think that would imply we are playing well, but Iâ€™m worried now.

Something doesnâ€™t seem right with the team , bar Winks we looked sluggish and no cohesion also gave the ball away to much and played to deep in the second half.

Perhaps it is down to Ericsson being unsettled but it shouldnâ€™t be.

It can only get better.
		
Click to expand...

Poch seemed really excited about the European window closing, as if that will make a huge difference to the squad. At least he played Vertonghen this time!


----------



## fundy (Sep 1, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Take that result after 2-0 down, we're making progress as a team when we have the ball now but alas the silly mistakes without it are still there but hopefully we'll continue to improve
		
Click to expand...

are we really making progress though, still heavily reliant on the same 2 guys goals bailing us out. same old issues that havent been addressed, didnt buy a proper centre half and for some reason torreira is below xhaka and doozi in the managers eyes. i struggle to see what weve done on the training pitch to address the defensive issues and positioning, the same idiots (yes xhaka you) are diving in all over the place and weve added another one to the party in Luiz

Ceballos looks decent, Pepe clearly has some raw talent (and so he should at 70m+) yet were still paying Ozil, Mhiki, Mustafi over 650k a week between them to do the sum root of bugger all


----------



## Rlburnside (Sep 1, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Poch seemed really excited about the European window closing, as if that will make a huge difference to the squad. At least he played Vertonghen this time!
		
Click to expand...

Didnâ€™t see the interview,
I donâ€™t buy into the view that we have been unsettled with Ericssonâ€™s position at the club, itâ€™s not helped but not to the extent with the way we have started the season. 

Our Squad is Stronger this season we will have players coming back from injury and the break has come at the right time for us, regroup and make a fresh start.


----------



## Fish (Sep 1, 2019)




----------



## Fish (Sep 1, 2019)

Having started the season with a new manager, a transfer ban & key players injured, Chelsea head into the international break on the same number of points as Man U (spent Â£148 M) & Spurs (Â£101.5 M). 

If anyone thinks we're in a bad place theyâ€™re deluded.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 1, 2019)

Spurs and United have exactly the same record over the last five games https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/tables so is Poch doing as bad a job as OGS. I didn't think either would be title contenders but they need to get something sorted to get CL footie next season. Still fancy Spurs to get closer to that than United


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 1, 2019)

Fish said:



			Having started the season with a new manager, a transfer ban & key players injured, Chelsea head into the international break on the same number of points as Man U (spent Â£148 M) & Spurs (Â£101.5 M).

If anyone thinks we're in a bad place theyâ€™re deluded.
		
Click to expand...

I donâ€™t think anyone has said Chelsea are in a â€œbad placeâ€ just that itâ€™s going to be hard for them to keep in the top 4 and maybe even have a battle for the top 6 . 

You lost one of the best players in the world someone who was key to Chelsea getting CL - and been unable to replace him. I think in the long run if patience is allowed then itâ€™s going to be good for Chelsea to bring the youngsters through into the team - the fans will just need to give Lampard time. Because Man Utd and Arsenal both have issues that top 4 spot is wide open for a number of teams


----------



## ColchesterFC (Sep 1, 2019)

Fish said:



			Having started the season with a new manager, a transfer ban & key players injured, Chelsea head into the international break on the same number of points as Man U (spent Â£148 M) & Spurs (Â£101.5 M).

If anyone thinks we're in a bad place theyâ€™re deluded.
		
Click to expand...

Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd and Spurs fans arguing over who is best placed at this stage to be the best of the rest behind Man City and Liverpool is surely a bit like 4 bald men arguing over a comb.


----------



## sam85 (Sep 1, 2019)

Fish said:



			Having started the season with a new manager, a transfer ban & key players injured, Chelsea head into the international break on the same number of points as Man U (spent Â£148 M) & Spurs (Â£101.5 M).

If anyone thinks we're in a bad place theyâ€™re deluded.
		
Click to expand...

For me the one thing these first few weeks of the season have shown is that City and Liverpool are an absolute mile ahead of the rest yet again this year.


----------



## fundy (Sep 1, 2019)

sam85 said:



			For me the one thing these first few weeks of the season have shown is that City and Liverpool are an absolute mile ahead of the rest yet again this year.
		
Click to expand...


the bit i dont get is some people seem to be surprised by this, its hardly rocket science


----------



## fundy (Sep 1, 2019)

Fish said:



			Having started the season with a new manager, a transfer ban & key players injured, Chelsea head into the international break on the same number of points as Man U (spent Â£148 M) & Spurs (Â£101.5 M). 

If anyone thinks we're in a bad place theyâ€™re deluded.
		
Click to expand...

you trying to convince us or yourself mate


----------



## sam85 (Sep 1, 2019)

fundy said:



			the bit i dont get is some people seem to be surprised by this, its hardly rocket science
		
Click to expand...

Oh I'm not surprised at all, just somewhat disappointed that the so called best league in the world is a 2 horse race already less than a month in to the season.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 1, 2019)

Fish said:



			Having started the season with a new manager, a transfer ban & key players injured, Chelsea head into the international break on the same number of points as Man U (spent Â£148 M) & Spurs (Â£101.5 M). 

If anyone thinks we're in a bad place theyâ€™re deluded.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think you'll get European footie next season but as long as Lmapard is given time and no-one panics then I think bringing on the youngsters has to be a benefit and once you can buy again you can strengthen. Football has always been cyclical and squads break and are rebuilt. It takes time and simply chucking cash at it isn't always a guarantee of success.


----------



## fundy (Sep 1, 2019)

sam85 said:



			Oh I'm not surprised at all, just somewhat disappointed that the so called best league in the world is a 2 horse race already less than a month in to the season.
		
Click to expand...

 sadly it was that before the season, and may be for a few years, the gaps pretty big, especially to City with their resources


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 1, 2019)

sam85 said:



			Oh I'm not surprised at all, just somewhat disappointed that the so called best league in the world is a 2 horse race already less than a month in to the season.
		
Click to expand...

If you look at it from the outside then the media are trying their very best to get it exciting already and the best title race in history when I suspect City will just sneak it again - I guess the real race will be the 2 spots below between 5 or 6 teams maybe and then the relegation battle


----------



## sam85 (Sep 1, 2019)

fundy said:



			sadly it was that before the season, and may be for a few years, the gaps pretty big, especially to City with their resources
		
Click to expand...

If Liverpool can't win the league last year playing as well as they did I don't see how any team can beat City unless something drastically changes in the next few years.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 1, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Spurs and United have exactly the same record over the last five games https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/tables so is Poch doing as bad a job as OGS. I didn't think either would be title contenders but they need to get something sorted to get CL footie next season. Still fancy Spurs to get closer to that than United
		
Click to expand...

Firstly, four games, but secondly, why on earth would you try and debate where teams are this early in the season?? The table isn't really relevant until at least 10 games have gone I'd say. We slipped up against Newcastle but away point at City and Arsenal are good results, we've just happened to have two tough games early. United got their draws against Southampton and Wolves.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 1, 2019)

West Ham seem to be letting Hernandez leave to go to Sevilla - reckon they prob will regret that


----------



## sam85 (Sep 1, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If you look at it from the outside then the media are trying their very best to get it exciting already and the best title race in history when I suspect City will just sneak it again - I guess the real race will be the 2 spots below between 5 or 6 teams maybe and then the relegation battle
		
Click to expand...

In all fairness if you took out the top 2 it possibly is the most wide open league in years. I wouldn't like to pick who else finishes top 4 or who gets relegated this year.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 1, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Firstly, four games, but secondly, why on earth would you try and debate where teams are this early in the season?? The table isn't really relevant until at least 10 games have gone I'd say. We slipped up against Newcastle but away point at City and Arsenal are good results, we've just happened to have two tough games early. United got their draws against Southampton and Wolves.
		
Click to expand...

Just pointing out to those mocking United and OGS that he's in fact doing no worse than Pochetino at Spurs who most think will at least get top four this season (or should do). I will concede that tables actually bear no relevance and actually it is after Christmas when games come thick and fast that it really takes shape.


----------



## pendodave (Sep 1, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Firstly, four games, but secondly, why on earth would you try and debate where teams are this early in the season?? The table isn't really relevant until at least 10 games have gone I'd say. We slipped up against Newcastle but away point at City and Arsenal are good results, we've just happened to have two tough games early. United got their draws against Southampton and Wolves.
		
Click to expand...

Don't like agreeing with a spurs fan, but you're right. Four games tells us very little so far except that Liverpool and City look far better than the rest.
Having said that, they also don't give rise to the blind optimism emanating from West London in one of the posts above.
One of the good things about being a West ham supporter is always reading the table from the bottom up. I think that makes for a much more rounded view of the world...


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 1, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			West Ham seem to be letting Hernandez leave to go to Sevilla - reckon they prob will regret that
		
Click to expand...

We donâ€™t play the football to suit his style of play

Haller is our target man

We have ajeti as back up

Yarmenlko can play up top as could a number of others if needed 

8 million now or free next summer

I can see us maybe buying a 3rd striker in January


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 1, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			We donâ€™t play the football to suit his style of play

Haller is our target man

We have ajeti as back up

Yarmenlko can play up top as could a number of others if needed 

8 million now or free next summer

I can see us maybe buying a 3rd striker in January
		
Click to expand...

Only 2 appearances and 8 months (I think) on the contract so Â£8m is a fair return rather than lose him for nothing. Doing alright without him in the side so far and it seems a sensible plan to let him go


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 1, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Only 2 appearances and 8 months (I think) on the contract so Â£8m is a fair return rather than lose him for nothing. Doing alright without him in the side so far and it seems a sensible plan to let him go
		
Click to expand...

He isnâ€™t happy at the club, which I can understand. He came to us thinking he would be our number one striker and instead we turned arnie into a striker and played him there!

He scored some good goals for us but haller is another level tbh. Can see France sniffing around for a call up .. very much like guirod

Ajeti scored for fun in the Swiss league so will see what happens


----------



## ColchesterFC (Sep 1, 2019)

sam85 said:



			In all fairness if you took out the top 2 it possibly is the most wide open league in years. I wouldn't like to pick who else finishes top 4 or who gets relegated this year.
		
Click to expand...

I'd agree with this. I really fancied Wolves to kick on this season (especially before/until the problems that many clubs seem to experience with the Europa League kick in) but that hasn't gone well so far. From what I've seen so far it looks like the top 2 battling for the title with the other 4 "big" clubs looking at 3rd to 6th with one or possibly two others trying to challenge them for those positions.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 1, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			We donâ€™t play the football to suit his style of play

Haller is our target man

We have ajeti as back up

Yarmenlko can play up top as could a number of others if needed

8 million now or free next summer

I can see us maybe buying a 3rd striker in January
		
Click to expand...

No idea who Ajeti is but Hernandez is a proven goal scorer and Â£8mil is pennies these days - certainly gives the squad strength


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 1, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			He isnâ€™t happy at the club, which I can understand. He came to us thinking he would be our number one striker and instead we turned arnie into a striker and played him there!

He scored some good goals for us but haller is another level tbh. Can see France sniffing around for a call up .. very much like guirod

Ajeti scored for fun in the Swiss league so will see what happens
		
Click to expand...

Swiss league football is a different beast but if you can get Ajeti firing then it's got to be good. Do you think Haller can break into the French squad? Some big names to get in front off there


----------



## sam85 (Sep 1, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'd agree with this. I really fancied Wolves to kick on this season (especially before/until the problems that many clubs seem to experience with the Europa League kick in) but that hasn't gone well so far. From what I've seen so far it looks like the top 2 battling for the title with the other 4 "big" clubs looking at 3rd to 6th with one or possibly two others trying to challenge them for those positions.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I was impressed by Wolves last year but it's amazing how much of a hindrance that Europa league can become for "smaller" clubs.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Sep 1, 2019)

sam85 said:



			Yeah I was impressed by Wolves last year but it's amazing how much of a hindrance that Europa league can become for "smaller" clubs.
		
Click to expand...

Has the Europa League become a "hindrance" so far? Have they actually played many/any games in that competition yet?


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Sep 1, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Has the Europa League become a "hindrance" so far? Have they actually played many/any games in that competition yet?
		
Click to expand...

Said on the radio today they've already played 9 games so far this season. I think it may help some but also hinder others.


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 1, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No idea who Ajeti is but Hernandez is a proven goal scorer and Â£8mil is pennies these days - certainly gives the squad strength
		
Click to expand...

63 appearances for us 17 goals

Shy of 1 in 3

Canâ€™t justify 140k a week with a return like that 

Ajeti wages will be a fraction of that and happy to bide his time

In MP we trust


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 1, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Swiss league football is a different beast but if you can get Ajeti firing then it's got to be good. Do you think Haller can break into the French squad? Some big names to get in front off there
		
Click to expand...

Has 20 caps at under 21 level scoring 13 goals so will already be on their radar

With guirod not getting any younger and haller now proving himself in premier league I reckon by end of season a call up will follow


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2019)

Slime said:



			Were they even in it?
		
Click to expand...




MetalMickie said:



			I wasn't aware that they were ever in it.

After this weekend it is clearer than ever that it is just a two horse race.

None of the three London sides have anything even approaching a League winning defence.
		
Click to expand...

Brutal gents ðŸ˜


----------



## sawtooth (Sep 1, 2019)

Fish said:



			Having started the season with a new manager, a transfer ban & key players injured, Chelsea head into the international break on the same number of points as Man U (spent Â£148 M) & Spurs (Â£101.5 M).

If anyone thinks we're in a bad place theyâ€™re deluded.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s not so much where you are itâ€™s where youâ€™re headed, and thatâ€™s down the table.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 1, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Has 20 caps at under 21 level scoring 13 goals so will already be on their radar

With guirod not getting any younger and haller now proving himself in premier league I reckon by end of season a call up will follow
		
Click to expand...

Getting a touch ahead there - he is mid 20â€™s , had a decent season in Germany and still didnâ€™t get near International team - itâ€™s been 4 games , long way to go and a long list in front of him - Griezmann , Mbappe , Martial , Dembele and if they get Lacazette in - France are loaded with forward options


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Firstly, four games, but secondly, why on earth would you try and debate where teams are this early in the season?? The table isn't really relevant until at least 10 games have gone I'd say. We slipped up against Newcastle but away point at City and Arsenal are good results, we've just happened to have two tough games early. United got their draws against Southampton and Wolves.
		
Click to expand...

I think the continuation of poor results from end of last season have carried onto this season. Only a lucky decision stopped the defeat at City too.

I cant remember where I heard it but Spurs had won about 12 points in the last 10 league games.

I wouldnt worry about Yernited, they'll be miles behind spurs.


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 1, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Getting a touch ahead there - he is mid 20â€™s , had a decent season in Germany and still didnâ€™t get near International team - itâ€™s been 4 games , long way to go and a long list in front of him - Griezmann , Mbappe , Martial , Dembele and if they get Lacazette in - France are loaded with forward options
		
Click to expand...

2 of them are more wingers than strikers plus martial canâ€™t find any consistent form


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 1, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Has the Europa League become a "hindrance" so far? Have they actually played many/any games in that competition yet?
		
Click to expand...

Today was Everton's 5th game of the season, it was Wolves 10th game. That has to impact. The manager has to juggle players, perhaps rest some when he wouldn't normally do so. If you look at the history of English teams in this competition it doesn't bode well for their league form unless they have a significant squad.


----------



## Jensen (Sep 1, 2019)

Fish said:



			Ffs, youâ€™ll drop like a stone soon enough.
#YoYoClub
ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

Fishy boy, that bitterness is really eating you up ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
It's not a nice trait. ðŸ˜„


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Today was Everton's 5th game of the season, it was Wolves 10th game. That has to impact. The manager has to juggle players, perhaps rest some when he wouldn't normally do so. If you look at the history of English teams in this competition it doesn't bode well for their league form unless they have a significant squad.
		
Click to expand...

Thereâ€™s at least 4 worse squads in the league than wolves, theyâ€™ll be sound this year. 

I think they see the EL as a very good chance of getting into the CL with a lump of luck they could win it.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Sep 1, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Today was Everton's 5th game of the season, it was Wolves 10th game. That has to impact. The manager has to juggle players, perhaps rest some when he wouldn't normally do so. If you look at the history of English teams in this competition it doesn't bode well for their league form unless they have a significant squad.
		
Click to expand...

Cheers for that. I didn't know how early the Europa League kicked in for English qualifiers or what stage they entered it.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Cheers for that. I didn't know how early the Europa League kicked in for English qualifiers or what stage they entered it.
		
Click to expand...

Mid July and they had to start in the 1st qualifying rounds.


----------



## Jensen (Sep 1, 2019)

I must admit that was never a penalty for Kane, he was looking for contact and dived as soon as he got it. His body takes a different route, it's completely unnatural


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 1, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I think the continuation of poor results from end of last season have carried onto this season. Only a lucky decision stopped the defeat at City too.

I cant remember where I heard it but Spurs had won about 12 points in the last 10 league games.

I wouldnt worry about Yernited, they'll be miles behind spurs.
		
Click to expand...

Last season was ages ago, it has no bearing on now. This season we've had one poor result out of 4 games.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Sep 1, 2019)

Fish said:



			Youâ€™re not â€˜one of themâ€™ or one of those clubs supporters. read the post and who itâ€™s aimed at.
		
Click to expand...

Dont know, never seen Gunnarsaurus with his head off.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 1, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Last season was ages ago, it has no bearing on now. This season we've had one poor result out of 4 games.
		
Click to expand...

I was just reciting what Iâ€™d heard/read. It was actually 15 PL points in the last 15 PL games.

Today was a poor result from your position, theyâ€™re not a very good side in all honesty. 

Lucky/stupid rule rescued you a point at city too.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 2, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I was just reciting what Iâ€™d heard/read. It was actually 15 PL points in the last 15 PL games.

Today was a poor result from your position, theyâ€™re not a very good side in all honesty.

Lucky/stupid rule rescued you a point at city too.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think a point away at Arsenal is bad at all.

As for the last bit, I thought you were talking about results? The result there was an away point at Man City which very few teams will get.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 2, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Today was Everton's 5th game of the season, it was Wolves 10th game. That has to impact. The manager has to juggle players, perhaps rest some when he wouldn't normally do so. If you look at the history of English teams in this competition it doesn't bode well for their league form unless they have a significant squad.
		
Click to expand...

Fulham found that out when we went from 1st qualifying to the final. Brutal amount of games for a wafer thin squad and although we finished 12th in the PL we played some clearly weaker sides in the last few matches to save players for the Europa league.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 2, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Thereâ€™s at least 4 worse squads in the league than wolves, theyâ€™ll be sound this year.

I think they see the EL as a very good chance of getting into the CL with a lump of luck they could win it.
		
Click to expand...

I agree they are not in trouble at the bottom end. Without the EL I think Wolves could have attacked the 4-6 slot but I don't think that will be possible with the extra games and travel.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 2, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I agree they are not in trouble at the bottom end. Without the EL I think Wolves could have attacked the 4-6 slot but I don't think that will be possible with the extra games and travel.
		
Click to expand...

My thought is it's an easier task to get 12-15 results in the EL than being consistent over 38 games in the PL. 

Realistically, with a big of luck regards the draw they could easily win that EL


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 2, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			My thought is it's an easier task to get 12-15 results in the EL than being consistent over 38 games in the PL.

Realistically, with a big of luck regards the draw they could easily win that EL
		
Click to expand...

I think that is a very fair point. They could get an unlucky draw when the CL teams join in but I agree that Wolves are capable of winning it, it would be great if they did. The shame is, and why I am anti the EL for Everton, is that they are almost having to prioritise the EL over the PL. To do well in both is very difficult unless you have a real depth of squad and I don't think they quite have that. I would have liked to see if Wolves could have kicked on in the PL this season, let's see if Leicester, Wolves and Everton can shake up the 3-6 place teams, but I think Wolves will be left out of the equation.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 2, 2019)

Jensen said:



			I must admit that was never a penalty for Kane, he was looking for contact and dived as soon as he got it. His body takes a different route, it's completely unnatural
		
Click to expand...

Missis T watched it last night and said penalty, nailed on. They showed it from another angle and said he is a grade one cheat. This diving business and I don't just mean Kane, it must take some practising to perfect it.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 2, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Last season was ages ago, it has no bearing on now. This season we've had one poor result out of 4 games.
		
Click to expand...

Unless you can get 7 points from your next game I would suggest you have had one good result and three bad uns..ðŸ‘
Am sure I did not see Citys draw v Spurs as a good result, irrespective of VAR.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 2, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Missis T watched it last night and said penalty, nailed on. They showed it from another angle and said he is a grade one cheat. This diving business and I don't just mean Kane, it must take some practising to perfect it.
		
Click to expand...

It was a very clumsy push by the defender but Kane put his body in the way . He is entitled to do that.
What I donâ€™t like about what Kane does is he puts his feet together around the defenders leg , he has a habit of doing this to look like heâ€™s been tripped.
I have seen them given both ways.
He is protecting the ball?
So was Teilamens for Leicester apparently ??? Thatâ€™s why he never got a red card.

Itâ€™s difficult to say either way these players are very clever, but once they get a reputation,and Kane is getting one.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 2, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Unless you can get 7 points from your next game I would suggest you have had one good result and three bad uns..ðŸ‘
Am sure I did not see Citys draw v Spurs as a good result, irrespective of VAR.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, we're not all Man City and expect to win every game. That mathematically wouldn't work anyway.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 2, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			It was a very clumsy push by the defender but Kane put his body in the way . He is entitled to do that.
*What I donâ€™t like about what Kane does is he puts his feet together around the defenders leg , he has a habit of doing this to look like heâ€™s been tripped.*
I have seen them given both ways.
He is protecting the ball?
So was Teilamens for Leicester apparently ??? Thatâ€™s why he never got a red card.

Itâ€™s difficult to say either way these players are very clever, but once they get a reputation,and Kane is getting one.
		
Click to expand...

Nail on head there I think. What he's done in this game, I wouldn't call it _diving_ as I consider a dive to be throwing yourself down without any contact. He's put himself in a position where he gets in between the defender and the ball, waits for contact and then goes down. But it's that dragging of his feet on the way down that makes it look like a dive. He did actually get two hands in the back from Sokratis - probably not enough for a penalty in my view - but if he'd have gone down more naturally without the foot-dragging then perhaps it might have actually been given. He's making things look like dives even when there's contact at the minute. Potentially why we didn't get the Newcastle one either. It's just visually swaying the ref against the penalty call. I think you're right, until he stops dragging his legs to exaggerate the fall, I don't think he's going to get many penalties this season.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 2, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Nail on head there I think. What he's done in this game, I wouldn't call it _diving_ as I consider a dive to be throwing yourself down without any contact. He's put himself in a position where he gets in between the defender and the ball, waits for contact and then goes down. But it's that dragging of his feet on the way down that makes it look like a dive. He did actually get two hands in the back from Sokratis - probably not enough for a penalty in my view - but if he'd have gone down more naturally without the foot-dragging then perhaps it might have actually been given. He's making things look like dives even when there's contact at the minute. Potentially why we didn't get the Newcastle one either. It's just visually swaying the ref against the penalty call. I think you're right, until he stops dragging his legs to exaggerate the fall, I don't think he's going to get many penalties this season.
		
Click to expand...

Richarlison was doing it for us yesterday, a similar technique. It drove me nuts. They waste energy and good chances through looking for a foul or a penalty instead of just trying to score or get in a good position. Neither need to do it and refs are getting wise to it. They need someone to have a word and tell them to cut it out.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 2, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Richarlison was doing it for us yesterday, a similar technique. It drove me nuts. They waste energy and good chances through looking for a foul or a penalty instead of just trying to score or get in a good position. Neither need to do it and refs are getting wise to it. They need someone to have a word and tell them to cut it out.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, with Kane's one yesterday I felt he had a chance to cut the ball across goal with his left foot, maybe produce an own goal or find its way through to Dele (I think) at the back post. But he elected to slow down and wait for the contact from Sokratis. Obviously if you don't get it you've wasted an opportunity.


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 2, 2019)

Kane's doing what Vardy's been doing since the year Leicester won the league with the wrap-around leg trick. It's clever and sometimes just about fair.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 2, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Kane's doing what Vardy's been doing since the year Leicester won the league with the wrap-around leg trick. It's clever and sometimes just about fair.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure about fair.
But if the defender is stupid enough to push him heâ€™s asking the ref to make a decision.


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 2, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Richarlison was doing it for us yesterday, a similar technique. It drove me nuts. They waste energy and good chances through looking for a foul or a penalty instead of just trying to score or get in a good position. Neither need to do it and refs are getting wise to it. They need someone to have a word and tell them to cut it out.
		
Click to expand...

Richarlison's normally pretty good tbf, rarely dives and does typically try his best to stay on his feet. Obviously didn't do that yesterday.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Sep 2, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Kane's doing what Vardy's been doing since the year Leicester won the league with the wrap-around leg trick. It's clever and sometimes just about fair.
		
Click to expand...

How is deception "fair"?
It's cheating, plain and simple and until players are punished for it nothing will change.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 2, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			How is deception "fair"?
It's cheating, plain and simple and until players are punished for it nothing will change.
		
Click to expand...

The reason it happens is the same reason we now have VAR. Players were getting fouled, trying to stay on their feet but losing possession and getting no reward because the ref refused to pull it back for the foul. So now they go down when there's contact because you get punished for not doing so. It's not cheating, anymore than you could argue a defender fouling someone in the box and getting away with it is cheating.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Sep 2, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			The reason it happens is the same reason we now have VAR. Players were getting fouled, trying to stay on their feet but losing possession and getting no reward because the ref refused to pull it back for the foul. So now they go down when there's contact because you get punished for not doing so. It's not cheating, anymore than you could argue a defender fouling someone in the box and getting away with it is cheating.
		
Click to expand...

And yet fans (like yourself) bitch like a god knows what when the "dive" doesnt get the pen you and your player want, because as you say VAR is there to stop it?


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 2, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			And yet fans (like yourself) bitch like a god knows what when the "dive" doesnt get the pen you and your player want, because as you say VAR is there to stop it?
		
Click to expand...

Well VAR has been useless on penalties so far as it just backs the ref every single time. So it hasn't really been used properly. They are currently wasting its potential.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Sep 2, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Well VAR has been useless on penalties so far as it just backs the ref every single time. So it hasn't really been used properly. They are currently wasting its potential.
		
Click to expand...

Is that because it hasn't given you the pens you wanted by your diver?


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 2, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Is that because it hasn't given you the pens you wanted by your diver?
		
Click to expand...

I do watch other games of football as well. Several incorrect decisions have failed to be overturned by VAR. e.g. Silva penalty against Bournemouth, Villa disallowed goal for Grealish's "dive" when he actually just fell while passing the ball. As well as the Kane one against Newcastle. There have been far too many examples considering we're only 4 weeks in. All it's done is successfully give millimetre offsides and accidental handballs.


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 2, 2019)

VAR couldnâ€™t overturn the Grealish decision as the ref blew his whistle.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 2, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			VAR couldnâ€™t overturn the Grealish decision as the ref blew his whistle.
		
Click to expand...

As he was impeded they could have given a penalty or foul and they is also doubt about the referee blowing his whistle before the goal was scored


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 2, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As he was impeded they could have given a penalty or foul and they is also doubt about the referee blowing his whistle before the goal was scored
		
Click to expand...

Never a penalty for me, not enough contact and the whistle went before the goal went in.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 2, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Never a penalty for me, not enough contact and the whistle went before the goal went in.
		
Click to expand...

They questioned the whistle on motd as the ref never put his hand near his mouth, he had his whistle on a wrist band.
Never a pen and was outside the box anyway.
But officials have been told not to whistle/ flag to see how play develops .
Just a mess at the moment ,


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 2, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Never a penalty for me, not enough contact and the whistle went before the goal went in.
		
Click to expand...

Which whistle because the video replays show his whistle nowhere near his mouth


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 2, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Sorry, we're not all Man City and expect to win every game. That mathematically wouldn't work anyway. 

Click to expand...

We don't expect to win every game, but 5 points after 4 games, let's put it this way, if it was City or Liverpool who along with Spuds were title contenders. We would not be happy.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 2, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			We don't expect to win every game, but 5 points after 4 games, let's put it this way, if it was City or Liverpool who along with Spuds were title contenders. We would not be happy.
		
Click to expand...

We are not and never were title contenders. Nobody on earth thought anyone other than City and Liverpool would be the top two. Expectations are not the same funnily enough.


----------



## fundy (Sep 2, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			We are not and never were title contenders. Nobody on earth thought anyone other than City and Liverpool would be the top two. Expectations are not the same funnily enough.
		
Click to expand...

higher than losing at home to Newcastle though surely?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 2, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1168239877282041861
Seems there is a â€œshould beâ€ league ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## fundy (Sep 2, 2019)

Mhiki gone to Roma on loan it seems, wonder how much of his wages were still paying


----------



## Dando (Sep 2, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1168239877282041861
Seems there is a â€œshould beâ€ league ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Next thereâ€™ll be a league table based on clubs called Manchester United


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 2, 2019)

fundy said:



			higher than losing at home to Newcastle though surely?
		
Click to expand...

I mean, you could always check the start of the conversation before spouting that and see what I said in the first place.


----------



## fundy (Sep 2, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I mean, you could always check the start of the conversation before spouting that and see what I said in the first place. 

Click to expand...

the bit where you moaned about VAR not working as youre not getting pens for diving or before that?


----------



## Jensen (Sep 2, 2019)

I think Harry Kane must be watching Juergen Klinsmann videos after training ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 2, 2019)

fundy said:



			the bit where you moaned about VAR not working as youre not getting pens for diving or before that?
		
Click to expand...

Everyone wants the game cleaned up until they realise itâ€™s their players who are part of the issue


----------



## fundy (Sep 2, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Everyone wants the game cleaned up until they realise itâ€™s their players who are part of the issue
		
Click to expand...

nah I want it cleaned up and you can start with Lacazette and the others at our place that are getting worse week on week, Emery clearly encouraging it (or not deterring it) because its increased greatly since he arrived


----------



## TheDiablo (Sep 2, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Which whistle because the video replays show his whistle nowhere near his mouth
		
Click to expand...

There have got the still of him with whistle in mouth before the shot 

Awful officiating in any circumstance, but once the whistle had stopped the game there's nothing more than can be done.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 2, 2019)

fundy said:



			the bit where you moaned about VAR not working as youre not getting pens for diving or before that?
		
Click to expand...

*sigh*
No.


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 2, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Which whistle because the video replays show his whistle nowhere near his mouth
		
Click to expand...

Use your ears, man.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 3, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			There have got the still of him with whistle in mouth before the shot

Awful officiating in any circumstance, but once the whistle had stopped the game there's nothing more than can be done.
		
Click to expand...

Every days a Skool day, am sure they mentioned it on MOTD, but never showed a piccie of him blowing his whistle. VAR showing ref blowing whistle would help ðŸ˜


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 3, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Use your ears, man.
		
Click to expand...

Have you never heard a whistle in the crowd?


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Have you never heard a whistle in the crowd?
		
Click to expand...

It was shown on MOTD - it was clearly the refâ€™s whistle. 


Because if he hasnâ€™t blown it, he wouldnâ€™t have given a dive against Grealish...


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 3, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			It was shown on MOTD - it was clearly the refâ€™s whistle.


Because if he hasnâ€™t blown it, he wouldnâ€™t have given a dive against Grealish...
		
Click to expand...

It was MOTD on Saturday that queried it.
JJ said â€œit was the worst reffing decision he has ever seenâ€
They showed footage to show he didnâ€™t put his whistle to his mouth.
Nowhere have I seen any video/ photo to show he did.
It might be out there ,I havnt seen it though ,

I have been at the match with knobs with whistles.


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			It was MOTD on Saturday that queried it.
JJ said â€œit was the worst reffing decision he has ever seenâ€
They showed footage to show he didnâ€™t put his whistle to his mouth.
Nowhere have I seen any video/ photo to show he did.
It might be out there ,I havnt seen it though ,

I have been at the match with knobs with whistles.
		
Click to expand...

Pretty sure it was MOTD where they played the audio to prove it. Sorry if you can't tell the difference and just believe Jermaine Jenas.


----------



## TheDiablo (Sep 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			It was MOTD on Saturday that queried it.
JJ said â€œit was the worst reffing decision he has ever seenâ€
They showed footage to show he didnâ€™t put his whistle to his mouth.
Nowhere have I seen any video/ photo to show he did.
It might be out there ,I havnt seen it though ,

I have been at the match with knobs with whistles.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 3, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



View attachment 28145

Click to expand...

Well thatâ€™s proof thank you .
I stand corrected.


----------



## TheDiablo (Sep 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well thatâ€™s proof thank you .
I stand corrected.
		
Click to expand...

Youre right though in MOTD got it wrong. Lineker was still bleating on about it when this pick was going around until Le Tiss tweeted him. He quickly went quiet!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 3, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Pretty sure it was MOTD where they played the audio to prove it. Sorry if you can't tell the difference and just believe Jermaine Jenas.
		
Click to expand...

Read what I said .
You are confusing seeing with hearing.
Motd said they didnâ€™t see his arm go up to his mouth.
But they did listen to the audio.
Sorry if you canâ€™t see the difference.


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Read what I said .
You are confusing seeing with hearing.
Motd said they didnâ€™t see his arm go up to his mouth.
But they did listen to the audio.
Sorry if you canâ€™t see the difference.
		
Click to expand...

I can tell the difference between players AND the referee reacting to a whistle blown by the referee.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 3, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			I can tell the difference between players AND the referee reacting to a whistle blown by the referee.
		
Click to expand...

Yeh right.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 3, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



View attachment 28145

Click to expand...

Cheers ðŸ‘

Interesting that he didnâ€™t blow for the first foul but then blew for the â€œsimulationâ€ - it was shocking refereeing from him and not the first time from Friend. The question is if he didnâ€™t dive then itâ€™s a foul there somewhere and VAR should have overruled the â€œfree kickâ€ for the simulation


----------



## hairball_89 (Sep 3, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			...The question is if he didnâ€™t dive then itâ€™s a foul there somewhere and VAR should have overruled the â€œfree kickâ€ for the simulation
		
Click to expand...

Is it though? That's one of those instances for me that's just contact. It's not a dive, it's not a free kick or a pen. It's just contact. Either way, it's terrible officiating.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 3, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Cheers ðŸ‘

Interesting that he didnâ€™t blow for the first foul but then blew for the â€œsimulationâ€ - it was shocking refereeing from him and not the first time from Friend. The question is if he didnâ€™t dive then itâ€™s a foul there somewhere and VAR should have overruled the â€œfree kickâ€ for the simulation
		
Click to expand...

But instructions to the VAR officials do not permit them to review every decision, only those where there is thought be a "clear and obvious error".

All goals are reviewed but otherwise, no matter how much we may think they should be, decisions are not automatically reviewed.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 3, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			But instructions to the VAR officials do not permit them to review every decision, only those where there is thought be a "clear and obvious error".

All goals are reviewed but otherwise, no matter how much we may think they should be, decisions are not automatically reviewed.
		
Click to expand...

How do you know if it's a clear and obvious error until you've reviewed it?   It's classic FA and their stupid wording of things muddying the waters really.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 3, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			How do you know if it's a clear and obvious error until you've reviewed it?   It's classic FA and their stupid wording of things muddying the waters really.
		
Click to expand...

As I understand it all matches are being viewed by VAR in real time and it is only taken to full scrutiny if the VAR officials think there may have been a "clear and obvious error" based upon that one real time viewing. 

Just convinces me that I was right in never wanting VAR in the first place


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			It was MOTD on Saturday that queried it.
JJ said â€œit was the worst reffing decision he has ever seenâ€
They showed footage to show he didnâ€™t put his whistle to his mouth.
Nowhere have I seen any video/ photo to show he did.
It might be out there ,I havnt seen it though ,

I have been at the match with knobs with whistles.
		
Click to expand...

This is what I thought they said, the bit i cannot get my head a round is this. If we are following Rugby to an extent with VAR. The ref would of let that play continue, goal scored it goes to VAR. REF can ask to see if Grealish dived or not, or any other reason why the goal should not stand. But coz ref allegadly blew the whistle. It don't go to VAR. 
Again the similarities between the Grealish decision and the City goal cancelled v Spurs. Not one player complained re the goals. It was a goal in both instances. Every player on the pitches knew it. But VAR and refs screwed up.
This is another of my griefs, the refs until VAR were getting decisions wrong. Var has come along, yet the same people that were getting decisions wrong then, are in charge of VAR and still getting them wrong.
I was all for VAR, but qiute frankly it's getting on me tits now. Another thing, if telly is seeing the VAR decisions, show the same decisions at the grounds so the rioting can begin.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 3, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			But instructions to the VAR officials do not permit them to review every decision, only those where there is thought be a "clear and obvious error".

All goals are reviewed but otherwise, no matter how much we may think they should be, decisions are not automatically reviewed.
		
Click to expand...

It would be reviewed by VAR who would be watching every incident and it was clear and obvious to every one that there was contact so should have been changed but then itâ€™s just the same poor referees making the same poor decisions either with the whistle or in front of a screen


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 3, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			This is what I thought they said, the bit i cannot get my head a round is this. If we are following Rugby to an extent with VAR. The ref would of let that play continue, goal scored it goes to VAR. REF can ask to see if Grealish dived or not, or any other reason why the goal should not stand. But coz ref allegadly blew the whistle. It don't go to VAR. 
Again the similarities between the Grealish decision and the City goal cancelled v Spurs. Not one player complained re the goals. It was a goal in both instances. Every player on the pitches knew it. But VAR and refs screwed up.
This is another of my griefs, the refs until VAR were getting decisions wrong. Var has come along, yet the same people that were getting decisions wrong then, are in charge of VAR and still getting them wrong.
I was all for VAR, but qiute frankly it's getting on me tits now. Another thing, if telly is seeing the VAR decisions, show the same decisions at the grounds so the rioting can begin.
		
Click to expand...

Actually the Jesus goal against us was correctly disallowed as per the new handball law. I don't agree with it but that is the law now. Last season it would have been a goal yeah.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 3, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			As I understand it all matches are being viewed by VAR in real time and it is only taken to full scrutiny if the VAR officials think there may have been a "clear and obvious error" based upon that one real time viewing. 

Just convinces me that I was right in never wanting VAR in the first place
		
Click to expand...

I was all for it but it's been so awful so far that I've almost completely changed my mind. I knew it would take time to get it right, but at the moment they couldn't get it more wrong if they tried.

It was meant to help the refs get things right, but somehow the opposite is happening and they're using it to justify all their wrong decisions. It's baffling at the minute.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 3, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Actually the Jesus goal against us was correctly disallowed as per the new handball law. I don't agree with it but that is the law now. Last season it would have been a goal yeah.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree. Even though i thought it was a goal and everyone else did inc players. I knew the rules and accepted it was no goal even though i thought it  a rubbish rule. Imagine my surprise when Newcastle?  have a goal and it is ruled ok even though it hits a hand. Thats what am saying. The same people are making the same mistakes.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Sep 3, 2019)

https://www.skysports.com/football/...-after-liverpool-sell-youngster-to-fiorentina

Blimey thatâ€™s a funny one.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 3, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It would be reviewed by VAR who would be watching every incident and it was clear and obvious to every one that there was contact so should have been changed but then itâ€™s just the same poor referees making the same poor decisions either with the whistle or in front of a screen
		
Click to expand...

No way of telling after the event but I wonder how many thought it was a clear and obvious error seeing it from just one angle in real time without the benefit of endless replays and slow motion. 

That's how the VAR officials have to judge.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 3, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			No way of telling after the event but I wonder how many thought it was a clear and obvious error seeing it from just one angle in real time without the benefit of endless replays and slow motion.

That's how the VAR officials have to judge.
		
Click to expand...

So VAR only have one angle in real time ? Iâ€™m confused because thatâ€™s not the VAR they highlighted during the many Sky programs about it - three officials watching screens with replays on various angles and speeds - there is no doubt they would have seen the Grealish incident on multiple angles and different speeds - plenty of time and you could tell it was a decision that made the players react - any decent referee would have had a look again. Even on the 5 live commentary  by the time he was  booking Grealish the pundit had seen a replay and called it shocking.

Zero point in them if they arenâ€™t looking at any potential incidents more than once


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 3, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So VAR only have one angle in real time ? Iâ€™m confused because thatâ€™s not the VAR they highlighted during the many Sky programs about it - three officials watching screens with replays on various angles and speeds - there is no doubt they would have seen the Grealish incident on multiple angles and different speeds - plenty of time and you could tell it was a decision that made the players react - any decent referee would have had a look again. Even on the 5 live commentary  by the time he was  booking Grealish the pundit had seen a replay and called it shocking.

Zero point in them if they arenâ€™t looking at any potential incidents more than once
		
Click to expand...

The multiple angles are used for the reviews but not to determine if a clear and obvious error has been made. 

If every decision was subject to full scrutiny then there would be little point in having on field referees.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 3, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			The multiple angles are used for the reviews but not to determine if a clear and obvious error has been made.

If every decision was subject to full scrutiny then there would be little point in having on field referees.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s the last minute of the game , a player goes down in the box as the ball reaches a teammate who slots it in as the ref blows for diving - itâ€™s a joke of decision and one that gained one team 3 points and cost another team , itâ€™s the exact reason why VAR was brought it - to stop these sort of incidents happening and costing teams points. The ref has had a complete shocking all round - he should have let play go and then got VAR to check. But because the incompetent idiot said it was a dive VAR should have checked that and told the ref â€œno he didnâ€™t diveâ€ - either way Friend shouldnâ€™t be near a Prem game again after that.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 3, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Itâ€™s the last minute of the game , a player goes down in the box as the ball reaches a teammate who slots it in as the ref blows for diving - itâ€™s a joke of decision and one that gained one team 3 points and cost another team , itâ€™s the exact reason why VAR was brought it - to stop these sort of incidents happening and costing teams points. The ref has had a complete shocking all round - he should have let play go and then got VAR to check. But because the incompetent idiot said it was a dive VAR should have checked that and told the ref â€œno he didnâ€™t diveâ€ - either way Friend shouldnâ€™t be near a Prem game again after that.
		
Click to expand...

It may well have been a bad decision but I just cannot understand the level of condemnation for a referee making a bad call whilst equally bad judgements by players seem to be willingly accepted. 

On Saturday Salah twice made shockingly bad decisions but there has been little if any comment. Dual standards?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 3, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			It may well have been a bad decision but I just cannot understand the level of condemnation for a referee making a bad call whilst equally bad judgements by players seem to be willingly accepted.

On Saturday Salah twice made shockingly bad decisions but there has been little if any comment. Dual standards?
		
Click to expand...

Can you really compare a player making the wrong pass or taking a shot on when he should have passed to a referee making ? 

One is applying the rules the other is just playing the sport.


----------



## dronfield (Sep 3, 2019)

Fish said:



			Robinson was a real handful, heâ€™s going to be a very good prospect, can see them struggling to hold on to him.

Theyâ€™re hard to break down, they work hard for each other, you need to move the ball quickly otherwise they swamp you.

RLC would have been a game changer in this type of game game, someone I didnâ€™t mention earlier, and also CHO, when these players are back fit Frank will have a much stronger squad to select from.

Those that are writing us off and criticising us are obviously concerned, Iâ€™m happy to bet them that weâ€™ll finish above their club and doubled it up to be the highest London club in the PL ðŸ‘ðŸ˜ŽðŸ’™
		
Click to expand...

I think the Blades are going to surprise a few teams and pundits, and hopefully can stay up. The summer signings are all making an impsct - Robinson may be a steal at Â£7m, and both he and Mousset (came on as sub) have added real pace to the forward line.

Early days, but things looking positive.

Rich


----------



## Liverbirdie (Sep 3, 2019)

I have only glanced through some of the comments regarding the Palace/Villa game, and whilst also agreeing that Kevin Friend is a shocking ref, can i use a golfing analogy

How many of you (or us) have absolutely hit the ground running with regards the new rules of golf? I know I still go to drop a ball from the shoulder, until I realise my mistake.

Ergo, do you expect everything to be "perfect" straight away?


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 3, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can you really compare a player making the wrong pass or taking a shot on when he should have passed to a referee making ? 

One is applying the rules the other is just playing the sport.
		
Click to expand...

And yet the one who is "just " playing the sport is paid around Â£5 million p.a. whilst the other, who you expect to be perfect, receives only a small fraction of that amount. 

Referees and players are all part of the same game.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 3, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			It may well have been a bad decision but I just cannot understand the level of condemnation for a referee making a bad call whilst equally bad judgements by players seem to be willingly accepted.

On Saturday Salah twice made shockingly bad decisions but there has been little if any comment. Dual standards?
		
Click to expand...

I think Mane had something to say about that!!!
Salah didnâ€™t cost Villa a point.
Any bad decisions by a player can only hurt his own team.
You cannot compare them.
A player makes decisions while someone is trying to kick him up in the air, nobody tackles the ref.
He is in his own space looking in or not as the case may be.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 3, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I have only glanced through some of the comments regarding the Palace/Villa game, and whilst also agreeing that Kevin Friend is a shocking ref, can i use a golfing analogy

How many of you (or us) have absolutely hit the ground running with regards the new rules of golf? I know I still go to drop a ball from the shoulder, until I realise my mistake.

Ergo, do you expect everything to be "perfect" straight away?
		
Click to expand...

If it was your job then yes I would.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 3, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I have only glanced through some of the comments regarding the Palace/Villa game, and whilst also agreeing that Kevin Friend is a shocking ref, can i use a golfing analogy

How many of you (or us) have absolutely hit the ground running with regards the new rules of golf? I know I still go to drop a ball from the shoulder, until I realise my mistake.

Ergo, do you expect everything to be "perfect" straight away?
		
Click to expand...

Friendsâ€™ error was nothing to do with any new rule though just pure incompetence



MetalMickie said:



			And yet the one who is "just " playing the sport is paid around Â£5 million p.a. whilst the other, who you expect to be perfect, receives only a small fraction of that amount.

Referees and players are all part of the same game.
		
Click to expand...

You are manoeuvring away from the point massively

Players , managers coaches make mistakes- they are also accountable for those mistakes if they cost the team points - too many and they lose their job

If Salahs wrong choices had cost the team then there would have been repercussions 

Not sure why you bring wages into it ðŸ™„

A referee is there to apply the rules - if they canâ€™t do that to a significant standard required where itâ€™s not costing teams then they should be fired


----------



## Liverbirdie (Sep 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			If it was your job then yes I would.
		
Click to expand...

Perfectly? Absolutely 100% every incident?


----------



## chrisd (Sep 3, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I have only glanced through some of the comments regarding the Palace/Villa game, and whilst also agreeing that Kevin Friend is a shocking ref, can i use a golfing analogy
		
Click to expand...

Good old Kevin- great referee, of course I wouldn't be at all biased  ðŸ¤«


----------



## Liverbirdie (Sep 3, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Friendsâ€™ error was nothing to do with any new rule though just pure incompetence
		
Click to expand...

Isnt it in the sphere of allowing play to go on, and letting VAR sort it out later, as the linesmen are doing with offsides in the main?

Again, I think Friend is terrible, but he may still be trying to get used to letting play develop further rather than whistling first (as has normally been the case in his 20 odd years of reffing).


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 3, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Perfectly? Absolutely 100% every incident?
		
Click to expand...

Ask a surgeon. Yes 
He has a VAR back up all he needed to do was NOT make a decision.
They have been told this ,thatâ€™s why the Linoâ€™s donâ€™t flag offside anymore.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Sep 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Ask a surgeon. Yes 
He has a VAR back up all he needed to do was NOT make a decision.
They have been told this ,thatâ€™s why the Linoâ€™s donâ€™t flag offside anymore.
		
Click to expand...

Have there never been claims for medical negligence, then?

They DO still flag when its "obvious", just arent meant to if unsure.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 3, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			They DO still flag when its "obvious", just arent meant to if unsure.
		
Click to expand...

Listen I can see your point nobody is perfect.
But players/ managers have press conferences after the games and are quizzed on their decisions.
I havnt seen Kevs press conference to explain to all the Villa fans why he booked Grelish and chalked off their goal.
Why cos they wonâ€™t/canâ€™t face the people who pay their wages, the fans.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 3, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Have there never been claims for medical negligence, then?

They DO still flag when its "obvious", just arent meant to if unsure.
		
Click to expand...

Yes but surgeons are like refs they club together and donâ€™t admit anything

There was one in the Liverpool Norwich game where VVD had to tackle a striker who was yards offside.
Because the striker never touched the ball they gave a corner to Norwich.
That was pretty obvious.
Itâ€™s just getting silly.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 3, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Isnt it in the sphere of allowing play to go on, and letting VAR sort it out later, as the linesmen are doing with offsides in the main?

Again, I think Friend is terrible, but he may still be trying to get used to letting play develop further rather than whistling first (as has normally been the case in his 20 odd years of reffing).
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s not the first time Friend has been referee using VAR though and believe he was heavily involved in issues last year in the Cup - maybe he just isnâ€™t up to it or the changes but for me he was looking straight at the incident and should be able to see the clear touch by Zaha first and then Cahill. Yes there always teething issue with new rules and systems etc but Friend initial issue was nothing to do with either


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 3, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Friendsâ€™ error was nothing to do with any new rule though just pure incompetence



You are manoeuvring away from the point massively

Players , managers coaches make mistakes- they are also accountable for those mistakes if they cost the team points - too many and they lose their job

If Salahs wrong choices had cost the team then there would have been repercussions 

Not sure why you bring wages into it ðŸ™„

A referee is there to apply the rules - if they canâ€™t do that to a significant standard required where itâ€™s not costing teams then they should be fired
		
Click to expand...

Wages are relevant as they reflect the muddled and immature thinking of many football fans. 

Quite happy to accept errors from multi-millionaire players but demand perfection from refs.

Both are human and, therefore,  fallible. About time fans grew up and realised this.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 3, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			Wages are relevant as they reflect the muddled and immature thinking of many football fans.

*Quite happy to accept errors from multi-millionaire players but demand perfection from refs.*

Both are human and, therefore,  fallible. About time fans grew up and realised this.
		
Click to expand...

Donâ€™t recall anyone saying they are happy with errors from â€œmulti millionaireâ€ players ( again I guess itâ€™s the high horse that allows you to bring in the wages ) and no one demands perfection from the ref. ðŸ™„


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 3, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Donâ€™t recall anyone saying they are happy with errors from â€œmulti millionaireâ€ players ( again I guess itâ€™s the high horse that allows you to bring in the wages ) and no one demands perfection from the ref. ðŸ™„
		
Click to expand...

How many posts about ref's decisions compared with the number on individual player errors?

And what high horse is that?


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 4, 2019)

dronfield said:



			I think the Blades are going to surprise a few teams and pundits, and hopefully can stay up. The summer signings are all making an impsct - Robinson may be a steal at Â£7m, and both he and Mousset (came on as sub) have added real pace to the forward line.

Early days, but things looking positive.

Rich
		
Click to expand...

Sheffield United are looking decent

Got to be careful ravel doesnâ€™t cause some kind of issue. Blokes a nutter 

The interesting thing is with Sheffield United looking good who exactly are going to be the bottom 3? Newcastle everyone has ear marked due to the Ashley situation but other than them itâ€™s hard to pick 

Villa look decent
Norwich have a very good goal scorer.. important in a new league 

Think it might be 3 established premier league teams that go this season!

Iâ€™d be worried if was a Southampton fan


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 4, 2019)

PJ87 don't know about the Southampton scenario and relegation. They did well at the weekend. Picking up points against other relegation threatened teams is always a bonus.


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 4, 2019)

I think we have defensive issues. But I'd not get too carried away re the new teams after 4 games.

We're currently aboulve plenty of relegation candidates and played two top 6 sides. 

If we get to 15 - 20 and theyre all doing well I'd be surprised. Can't recall the last time 3 new teams came up they all survived.
Was a poor result at Burnley, but should of snatched a pt against Liverpool tbh.


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 4, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but surgeons are like refs they club together and donâ€™t admit anything
		
Click to expand...

Utter nonsense. As someone who has spent much of my adult life analysing medical documentation and has sat in countless meetings where clinicians discuss their mortality levels and surgical techniques, I can promise you they do not just club together and pretend they don't make mistakes on the whole. Some will, just as there are bad people in all walks of life.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 4, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Sheffield United are looking decent

Got to be careful ravel doesnâ€™t cause some kind of issue. Blokes a nutter

The interesting thing is with Sheffield United looking good who exactly are going to be the bottom 3? Newcastle everyone has ear marked due to the Ashley situation but other than them itâ€™s hard to pick

Villa look decent
Norwich have a very good goal scorer.. important in a new league

Think it might be 3 established premier league teams that go this season!

Iâ€™d be worried if was a Southampton fan
		
Click to expand...

Can't see Watford remaining down there, surely their squad is too good. Seems like everyone we thought would go down has had a decent result somewhere that makes you question it. Every year it gets more difficult as the general standard of the entire bottom 8 tends to be similar. I think Brighton could still struggle despite that big opening day win. Villa have looked ok, but I'm not sure they'll pick up enough points really. They look like the typical plucky team that does well but gets edged out of games. I like Norwich and I'd like them to stay up but they do seem to be a little bit naive and leaving themselves open at the back. If Pukki keeps scoring they could be ok.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 4, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Utter nonsense. As someone who has spent much of my adult life analysing medical documentation and has sat in countless meetings where clinicians discuss their mortality levels and surgical techniques, I can promise you they do not just club together and pretend they don't make mistakes on the whole. Some will, just as there are bad people in all walks of life.
		
Click to expand...

You seem to be an expert on everything!
My experience is not the same as yours ,count yourself lucky.!


----------



## dronfield (Sep 4, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Sheffield United are looking decent

Got to be careful ravel doesnâ€™t cause some kind of issue. Blokes a nutter

The interesting thing is with Sheffield United looking good who exactly are going to be the bottom 3? Newcastle everyone has ear marked due to the Ashley situation but other than them itâ€™s hard to pick

Villa look decent
Norwich have a very good goal scorer.. important in a new league

Think it might be 3 established premier league teams that go this season!

Iâ€™d be worried if was a Southampton fan
		
Click to expand...

Good points - i think Wilder is the right person to manage Ravel, who must realise he is in last chance saloon re Premier League.

By coincidence, our next game is Southampton at home.

Rich


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Can't see Watford remaining down there, surely their squad is too good. Seems like everyone we thought would go down has had a decent result somewhere that makes you question it. Every year it gets more difficult as the general standard of the entire bottom 8 tends to be similar. I think Brighton could still struggle despite that big opening day win. Villa have looked ok, but I'm not sure they'll pick up enough points really. They look like the typical plucky team that does well but gets edged out of games. I like Norwich and I'd like them to stay up but they do seem to be a little bit naive and leaving themselves open at the back. If Pukki keeps scoring they could be ok.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure. Thought Fulham had a decent enough squad last season but they made a complete mess of it from the start. I have a feeling Watford will be ok. Worry about Norwich if Puki's goals dry up or he gets injured and think they'll be in the relegation shake up. Not convinced Brighton have enough this year either. Think Villa will be in the mix too. I also wonder if Bournemouth won't get sucked into it all as well


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Sep 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Can't see Watford remaining down there, surely their squad is too good. Seems like everyone we thought would go down has had a decent result somewhere that makes you question it. Every year it gets more difficult as the general standard of the entire bottom 8 tends to be similar. I think Brighton could still struggle despite that big opening day win. Villa have looked ok, but I'm not sure they'll pick up enough points really. They look like the typical plucky team that does well but gets edged out of games. I like Norwich and I'd like them to stay up but they do seem to be a little bit naive and leaving themselves open at the back. If Pukki keeps scoring they could be ok.
		
Click to expand...

Further up this thread, you were saying 4 games wasn't enough to judge who would win the PL, but here you are saying who will go down after just as many games?


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 4, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Further up this thread, you were saying 4 games wasn't enough to judge who would win the PL, but here you are saying who will go down after just as many games?
		
Click to expand...

No, I said the league table was irrelevant after 4 games. Now I am judging the teams based on watching them play and their squad of players. So that is completely different, obviously.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Sep 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			No, I said the league table was irrelevant after 4 games. Now I am judging the teams based on watching them play and their squad of players. So that is completely different, obviously.
		
Click to expand...

After 4 games?......obviously


----------



## Fish (Sep 4, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not sure. Thought Fulham had a decent enough squad last season but they made a complete mess of it from the start. I have a feeling Watford will be ok. Worry about Norwich if Puki's goals dry up or he gets injured and think they'll be in the relegation shake up. Not convinced Brighton have enough this year either. Think Villa will be in the mix too. I also wonder if Bournemouth won't get sucked into it all as well
		
Click to expand...

Well thatâ€™s 25% of the league Martin, Iâ€™m sure youâ€™ll get a couple right with that spread ðŸ˜


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 4, 2019)

Fish said:



			Well thatâ€™s 25% of the league Martin, Iâ€™m sure youâ€™ll get a couple right with that spread ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

The talk was of the bottom 6-8 sides and who would be in that mini league around relegation.


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 7, 2019)

Us getting to the semis was the worst thing for England in years.

Yet more awful footy. Complete lack of movement off the ball. All players taking 2 touches or giving it away first time. 

I like Henderson for his energy but he should never start against no hopers where midfield is a walkover. As to TAA and Sancho being on the bench......


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 7, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Us getting to the semis was the worst thing for England in years.

Yet more awful footy. Complete lack of movement off the ball. All players taking 2 touches or giving it away first time.

I like Henderson for his energy but he should never start against no hopers where midfield is a walkover. As to TAA and Sancho being on the bench......
		
Click to expand...

Letâ€™s be honest that Semi Final hopefully will be looked at with a bit of perspective in regards the oppositions they faced , there is the old adage of can only beat who you face but as soon as they faced an opposition of any real quality they were outclassed and were unable to rely on set pieces.

Its showing how imo negative Southgate is 

You are at home against a lesser nation yet have two of your best attacking outlets on the bench and play a defensive midfielder - canâ€™t trust his backline, England will win no problems but these are the games to get players like Sancho and TAA to build understandings


----------



## fundy (Sep 7, 2019)

Watford have sacked Garcia, laughable

Cup final and 11th in prem last year (and wouldve been higher if not focussed on cup final), sacked after 4 games this!


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 7, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Letâ€™s be honest that Semi Final hopefully will be looked at with a bit of perspective in regards the oppositions they faced , there is the old adage of can only beat who you face but as soon as they faced an opposition of any real quality they were outclassed and were unable to rely on set pieces.

Its showing how imo negative Southgate is 

You are at home against a lesser nation yet have two of your best attacking outlets on the bench and play a defensive midfielder - canâ€™t trust his backline, England will win no problems but these are the games to get players like Sancho and TAA to build understandings
		
Click to expand...

I totally agree. The run to that semi was more to do with the rubbish we faced than any prowess on our behalf. 

Re the boring choices. It's England through and through unfortunately. We do it all the time. The amount of times we beat San Marino etc 4-0 whilst other teams win 8+. We always here the rubbish of "we respect everyone at intl level", etc.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 7, 2019)

fundy said:



			Watford have sacked Garcia, laughable

Cup final and 11th in prem last year (and wouldve been higher if not focussed on cup final), sacked after 4 games this!
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s Watford - thatâ€™s 11 managers since 2010

The owner there has zero patience


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 7, 2019)

Just got outta the bath ( I stunk), I wish I had stayed in the deep end. Now my managerial CV  could be written on the back of a fag packet. Whippersnappers google it. But Sir Gareth, this is a shower of shit. Now I have not been in touch with Mother Earth for half an hour whilst ave been douching. But has Ebola stricken down the England team. Musta done. How the bloody hell does Barkley, Rice and Henderson play in the same team against the Brilliance of the magnificent footballing samba nation of Brazil. We will get ripped to bits, we need some creativity. Eh Missis T just told me its Bulgaria. BULGARIA, soddin Bulgaria at fortress Wembley. Sweet mother Mary and Jesus.
Conclusion. Lord Waistcoat has took a brown envelope Bung.

Come what may, it's a shower of shit. Am goin for a bath.


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 7, 2019)

Watfords owners are ruthless. I played with a Watford fan yesterday, and he called it. They have Arsenal and City next. They would still be bottom. Tough job.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 7, 2019)

Watford have brought back Flores ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 7, 2019)

A manager of Watford could well be justified in looking for alternate employment whilst in the job on the basis that their stay at the club is inevitably going to be a short one. Jump before being pushed. Just saying ðŸ¤”ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 7, 2019)

They must have been doing the deal for a while to get Flores back in and announce it so quickly which given the number of games played seems a very knee jerk reaction and gives the manager no chance to change things around


----------



## Slime (Sep 7, 2019)

This 'shower of shit' happens to be winning 4-0, what's wrong with that?


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 7, 2019)

Slime said:



			This 'shower of shit' happens to be winning 4-0, what's wrong with that?
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™ll reserve judgement for when we face a team with any class whatsoever......


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 7, 2019)

Slime said:



			This 'shower of shit' happens to be winning 4-0, what's wrong with that?
		
Click to expand...

Is that a serious question. Surely it's a joke


----------



## Slime (Sep 7, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Is that a serious question. Surely it's a joke
		
Click to expand...

Why?
Is it because we don't play like Brazil did in 1970?


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 7, 2019)

Slime said:



			Why?
Is it because we don't play like Brazil did in 1970?
		
Click to expand...

No it's because we were dire . Two holding midfielders .its 2019.


----------



## Slime (Sep 7, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			No it's because we were dire . Two holding midfielders .its 2019.
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough, but we did win 4-0.
You also have to bear in mind the fact that we don't have very many international class footballers.
Lots of good players but very few world class players, possibly just one!


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 7, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			No it's because we were dire . Two holding midfielders .its 2019.
		
Click to expand...

Isn't Henderson a box to box midfielder


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Isn't Henderson a box to box midfielder
		
Click to expand...

I think no matter what team you put out .
If a team plays so negative as them itâ€™s not easy.
Having said that they could have been 2-1 up at half time. If they had taken their two good chances.
Maybe thatâ€™s why GS put a holding midfield out.
Never seen all of it I fell asleep a couple of times.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Isn't Henderson a box to box midfielder
		
Click to expand...

Allegedly but they hardly got out their own half so halfway line to box really today.

Everyoneâ€™s an England manager.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Isn't Henderson a box to box midfielder
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ lock the thread phil, we gotta finish on a high. ðŸ‘


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 7, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ lock the thread phil, we gotta finish on a high. ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

You should be used to watching a team defend for 90mins and see how many you can score against them.
I got sick of it at the Reds ,but itâ€™s the norm in modern football.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 7, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think no matter what team you put out .
If a team plays so negative as them itâ€™s not easy.
Having said that they could have been 2-1 up at half time. If they had taken their two good chances.
Maybe thatâ€™s why GS put a holding midfield out.
Never seen all of it I fell asleep a couple of times.
		
Click to expand...

Thing is CC, you have hit the nail on the head. Rice and Henderson screamed out don't lose. Drop one of them and put some creativity on. Bulgaria sat back. That was hardly going to be rocket science. The runners of Kane, sterling and Rashford were hardly going to be picked out by that midfield. Struggling to see the positives of two pens and defensive mistake.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 7, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			You should be used to watching a team defend for 90mins and see how many you can score against them.
I got sick of it at the Reds ,but itâ€™s the norm in modern football.
		
Click to expand...

If Pep played fernandinho, Rodri and Delph against (insert said defensive team) he would be slated for it, and rightly so. Roy Keane said at half time, words along the line " they were Rammel" apart from sterling. Thing is it was GS that picked that team. We have the nightly unbeaten Kosovo on Tuesday. Watch this space.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 7, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Thing is CC, you have hit the nail on the head. _*Rice and Henderson screamed out don't lose. Drop one of them and put some creativity on*_. Bulgaria sat back. That was hardly going to be rocket science. The runners of Kane, sterling and Rashford were hardly going to be picked out by that midfield. Struggling to see the positives of two pens and defensive mistake.
		
Click to expand...

Have a look at the squad and see where the creativity comes from if you do what you suggest?


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Have a look at the squad and see where the creativity comes from if you do what you suggest?
		
Click to expand...

Sancho will create, he is doing it for Dortmund. If he can play players who have four PREM games, have a look at Foden, he has played more than four. If that is our best middle three God help us. Am not knocking either of Rice or Henderson. But both in a team. It's like playing batty and Ince.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 7, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			If Pep played fernandinho, Rodri and Delph against (insert said defensive team) he would be slated for it, and rightly so. Roy Keane said at half time, words along the line " they were Rammel" apart from sterling. Thing is it was GS that picked that team. We have the nightly unbeaten Kosovo on Tuesday. Watch this space.
		
Click to expand...

Yes agree but donâ€™t think we have that creativity.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 7, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			If Pep played fernandinho, Rodri and Delph against (insert said defensive team) he would be slated for it, and rightly so. Roy Keane said at half time, words along the line " they were Rammel" apart from sterling. Thing is it was GS that picked that team. We have the nightly unbeaten Kosovo on Tuesday. Watch this space.
		
Click to expand...

Think Iâ€™m washing my hair Tuesday.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Sep 7, 2019)

Slime said:



			very few world class players, possibly just one!
		
Click to expand...

Jordan Henderson?


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 7, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Jordan Henderson?
		
Click to expand...

Of course he's a European Cup winning captain ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Your lot cost me Â£3k today too ðŸ¤¬


----------



## ColchesterFC (Sep 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Of course he's a European Cup winning captain ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Your lot cost me Â£3k today too ðŸ¤¬
		
Click to expand...

A point at home to Walsall is a good result. Don't tell me you backed us to win?


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 7, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			A point at home to Walsall is a good result. Don't tell me you backed us to win?
		
Click to expand...

No, I'm not that stupid ðŸ˜‚Over 1.5 goals  acca.

The bird from Skysports who was doing the updates said they could play til midnight tonight and they still wouldnt score ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ one of those games I suppose.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 7, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Sancho will create, he is doing it for Dortmund. If he can play players who have four PREM games, have a look at Foden, he has played more than four. If that is our best middle three God help us. Am not knocking either of Rice or Henderson. But both in a team. It's like playing batty and Ince.
		
Click to expand...

Doesnt Sancho play in the front 3 at Dortmund? 

I get your point but I dont think they've got enough  quality in midfield to choose from.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 7, 2019)

I wouldn't say we won 4-0, I'd say Bulgaria lost 4-0! They shot themselves in the foot for three of them. 

So many average players starting for us with better players left on the bench. I can only assume Southgate planned to rotate the team for the two games. Otherwise why would Trips, Rashford, Barkley be playing over Arnold, Maddison & Sancho?? And Henderson was simply a waste of space against this opposition. Added absolutely nothing to the team. We could have played someone a little more creative there.


----------



## fundy (Sep 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			No, I'm not that stupid ðŸ˜‚Over 1.5 goals  acca.

The bird from Skysports who was doing the updates said they could play til midnight tonight and they still wouldnt score ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ one of those games I suppose.
		
Click to expand...


Grimsby here mate (BTTS), feel your pain!


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 7, 2019)

fundy said:



			Grimsby here mate (BTTS), feel your pain!
		
Click to expand...

Ouch....Grimsby missed a pen too ðŸ‘Ž

I do a silly over 1.5 goals coupon every week, been close on a few occasions but never landed one. Today I was only waiting on colchester v walsall after 75 mins for Â£3k, gutted.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Sep 8, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			No, I'm not that stupid ðŸ˜‚Over 1.5 goals  acca.

The bird from Skysports who was doing the updates said they could play til midnight tonight and they still wouldnt score ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ one of those games I suppose.
		
Click to expand...

So to be fair, my lot didn't cost you Â£3k. Walsall also have to shoulder half the blame, or possibly more, if they can't manage to score against us.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Sep 8, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Ouch....Grimsby missed a pen too ðŸ‘Ž

I do a silly over 1.5 goals coupon every week, been close on a few occasions but never landed one. Today I was only waiting on colchester v walsall after 75 mins for Â£3k, gutted.
		
Click to expand...

I went down to a home match with my son, my brother and my dad last season. My brother had done two accas, one over 1.5 goals and one over 2.5 goals. The first one had come in and he was waiting on one game in the second bet. Luton (I think) then scored in the 97th minute to win that bet for him as well for close to Â£1k.


----------



## davemc1 (Sep 8, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			No it's because we were dire . Two holding midfielders .its 2019.
		
Click to expand...

Eh! We play with 3 on occasion... ðŸ˜†


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 8, 2019)

Fair play to Sterling. I have been vocal on here about his goalscoring return (something like 8 in 44 games) but he's on a great run and 15 in 52 (including friendlies) is a far better return and I hope he can continue in the same form. He's definitely found a new confidence in an England shirt and is far more clinical than he was. Whether Southgate has got something from him or its as a result of his form for City I am so pleased to see him playing so much better


----------



## fundy (Sep 8, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Ouch....Grimsby missed a pen too ðŸ‘Ž

I do a silly over 1.5 goals coupon every week, been close on a few occasions but never landed one. Today I was only waiting on colchester v walsall after 75 mins for Â£3k, gutted.
		
Click to expand...


Yeah i know  

Tend to do a few 4 or 5 folds all about even money shots, been 1 short the last 4 accas sigh, on the plus sides the bookies think its a mug account


----------



## Jensen (Sep 8, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Fair play to Sterling. I have been vocal on here about his goalscoring return (something like 8 in 44 games) but he's on a great run and 15 in 52 (including friendlies) is a far better return and I hope he can continue in the same form. He's definitely found a new confidence in an England shirt and is far more clinical than he was. Whether Southgate has got something from him or its as a result of his form for City I am so pleased to see him playing so much better
		
Click to expand...

Here, here but I think the praise lands at Peps feet


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 8, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Here, here but I think the praise lands at Peps feet
		
Click to expand...

I think ultimately you are right and his PL form has been good but Southgate seems to have found a spark with him. Sterling always had the chances in internationals but never managed to convert too many but recently he's been far more clinical. If Kane keeps his goals coming to we've a front two that can score against any side


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 8, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Here, here but I think the praise lands at Peps feet
		
Click to expand...

I think he has always had it, certainly did when he was at Liverpool  it's just pep has fine tuned it. His goal was a typical, city goal. Remember when he got criticism for scoring goals that stevie wonder could score. As I said, stevie wonder could not get there. That aside I thought Kane and sterling linked up well. My worry is that rashford is not on the same wavelength. Sancho could well be.


----------



## Jensen (Sep 9, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			I think he has always had it, certainly did when he was at Liverpool  it's just pep has fine tuned it. His goal was a typical, city goal. Remember when he got criticism for scoring goals that stevie wonder could score. As I said, stevie wonder could not get there. That aside I thought Kane and sterling linked up well. My worry is that rashford is not on the same wavelength. Sancho could well be.
		
Click to expand...

Ironically Tash, it was me that made the Stevie Wonder quote, which he has certainly moved on.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 9, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			I think he has always had it, certainly did when he was at Liverpool  it's just pep has fine tuned it. His goal was a typical, city goal. Remember when he got criticism for scoring goals that stevie wonder could score. As I said, stevie wonder could not get there. That aside I thought Kane and sterling linked up well. My worry is that rashford is not on the same wavelength. Sancho could well be.
		
Click to expand...

I didn't think Rashford was overly poor but I definitely want to see more of Sancho and see if can connect up with Kane and Sterling. I think same as you, that he can, but unless he gets a run it won't happen. Wonder if he'll get a chance tomorrow


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 9, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Ironically Tash, it was me that made the Stevie Wonder quote, which he has certainly moved on.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe I look at sterling through rose tinted glasses, but there have been times and I don't mean one or two that I have thought rammel. In the City set up, they play to a system where players can rotate in differant positions, sterling out wide, left or right, but as a winger scoring tap ins from 1 yd. it seemed for a long time sterling wasn't playing his game whilst at England. Thought Sterlings goal for England was excellent, not in the sense it hit his thigh, but the link up between Kane and Sterling, Kane passing from 8yds out. Unheard of, but for the benefit of England, excellent. Same for Sterling to Kane for his.
My grief with England is the midfield. It just seems static. Very static. At this group stage level. It will do, but at the finals, it needs to up a couple of levels.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 9, 2019)

When we sold Sterling I said he'd be world class in 3/4 seasons and he's proving to be so. He needs to be more consistent in front of goal but the lad has a lot of quality and hes only going to get better.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 9, 2019)

Northern Ireland were dogged in the first half but Germany have stepped up a gear especially now they've scored. No real surprise about the Scotland score


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 9, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Northern Ireland were dogged in the first half but Germany have stepped up a gear especially now they've scored. No real surprise about the Scotland score
		
Click to expand...

Two awful attempts from Conor Washington the difference in the first half. Oh what we would do for another David Healy in his hay day.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 9, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Two awful attempts from Conor Washington the difference in the first half. Oh what we would do for another David Healy in his hay day.
		
Click to expand...

True but I wonder if the thought of scoring against such a big name as Germany put him off. Definitely two chances for a cool head and Healey would have loved those.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 9, 2019)

What happened to it being a beautiful game https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49521158


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 9, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			What happened to it being a beautiful game https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49521158

Click to expand...

Greed,Money,dirty money and lots of it got pushed in front of some chancers.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 10, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Greed,Money,dirty money and lots of it got pushed in front of some chancers.
		
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. What happened to team sheets on the back of a fag packet and simply telling your centre half to kick the striker as hard and often as possible. Surely thats all the technical input we use to have


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 10, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			What happened to it being a beautiful game https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49521158

Click to expand...

Trouble is Homer in football it is all about small margins, 11 MM in Citys case. Re football was it behind the times?Don't know what the film was called. But it was about baseball. In essence it told the story of a major league club that hired a guy who looked at stats. He advised the club to hire players who were " past it". In essence they ended up winning the World Series. Now every club does it. This has been going off in football for years, it's just that the BBC is slow in picking up on this story.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 10, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Trouble is Homer in football it is all about small margins, 11 MM in Citys case. Re football was it behind the times?Don't know what the film was called. But it was about baseball. In essence it told the story of a major league club that hired a guy who looked at stats. He advised the club to hire players who were " past it". In essence they ended up winning the World Series. Now every club does it. This has been going off in football for years, it's just that the BBC is slow in picking up on this story.
		
Click to expand...

I totally get it. Look at the NFL as an example and the data they collect in camp and then the way they design play calls for games (Pathetic Shark can allude better). It had to move on and an example of how each club is now professional to the nth degree in every area. I'd suggest (not 100% certain) but this stats collection goes into the national league and probably a level or two below (if not in the same depth). 

Clearly it has an impact on training methods, player performance and of course it can come down to millimetres but I also wonder how much information these footballers retain. You see the subs getting a raft of instructions on the sideline and going through charts before coming on (usually for player match ups at set pieces) but once into the game how much of the detail do they use or are they simply reacting to the game as it pans out


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 10, 2019)

It is refining and refining, taking coaching to another level. Like a boxer looking for an opening in an opponent. Look closely enough and eventually you find a weakness. Now they are looking for weaknesses not only in the opponents but in their own players so they can work on them and minimise them. Make the player aware of what they do that is good and what they do that is not and how they can erradicate it. How can players not improve via this?

I think some will benefit more than others. Instinctive players, Hazard, De Bruyne etc need to be left alone. Defenders, defensive midfielders etc can benefit in huge chunks.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Sep 10, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Trouble is Homer in football it is all about small margins, 11 MM in Citys case. Re football was it behind the times?Don't know what the film was called. But it was about baseball. In essence it told the story of a major league club that hired a guy who looked at stats. He advised the club to hire players who were " past it". In essence they ended up winning the World Series. Now every club does it. This has been going off in football for years, it's just that the BBC is slow in picking up on this story.
		
Click to expand...

The film was â€œmoneyballâ€, and from memory the coach was offered a huge cheque (by the Boston Red Sox) to be their coach for the next season after coming close to winning the league by choosing a team as you say on stats but he didnâ€™t take it and stayed loyal to the Oakland Aâ€™s. At the time every other coach pilloried him 
He never got his team as high again, and the Red Sox copied his philosophy and won the World Series a season or 2 later.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 10, 2019)

Moneyball doesn't really translate to football anyway. Football can't be broken down into quantitative stats like baseball can. People just started using the word 'Moneyball' for detailed scouting because the film was popular. For example, in Moneyball (the film anyway) they look for players who 'get on base' because doing that directly translates into runs. But a lot of football stats don't directly equal goals so it doesn't work the same. e.g. Jorginho making the most passes but didn't assist a single goal last season.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 10, 2019)

Quite amusing the latest FIFA rankings - how can a system have last years winners and finalists below some teams that have never reached a final , others that canâ€™t get past a quarter final ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸


----------



## fundy (Sep 10, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:









Quite amusing the latest FIFA rankings - how can a system have last years winners and finalists below some teams that have never reached a final , others that canâ€™t get past a quarter final ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸
		
Click to expand...


happy with that, looks accurate through my tints


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 10, 2019)

The top 2 in that list are not the best team in their own country never mind the whole of Europe ðŸ¤”. That says enough about the credibility of it.


----------



## pokerjoke (Sep 10, 2019)

Sterling just unplayable 
Â£150 million?


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 10, 2019)

What the hell was Michael Keane doing? Not done anything like that in an Everton shirt for a long time, bizarre.

Nice to see us put some goals away though, just caught the last few minutes of the half, Sterling looks electric, beautiful play to set up Sancho's 2nd.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 10, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			Sterling just unplayable
Â£150 million?
		
Click to expand...

Brilliant half from Sterling .
His movement has improved so much .
My only minor criticism is sometimes he holds the ball to long and ends up closing his angles down then plays a poor ball.
When he lets it go early he is unstoppable.
If he sorts that out I would say your valuation is about right.

Think we still need a gifted CM but canâ€™t see we have one.
I was thinking these are quite good but the defending is shocking.
Whatâ€™s the keeper doing for the own goal.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 10, 2019)

Sterling has been great and I am pleased to see it. My only moan would be seeing him do it against a big side rather than Bulgaria and Kosovo but confidence is a big factor


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 10, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Think we still need a gifted CM but canâ€™t see we have one.
		
Click to expand...

Maddison and Mount sat on the bench, both young talented central midfielders, both playing far better than Barkley this season and both should have started ahead of Barkley. I think we should have gone Maddison personally.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 10, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sterling has been great and I am pleased to see it. My only moan would be seeing him do it against a big side rather than Bulgaria and Kosovo but confidence is a big factor
		
Click to expand...

Agree but you can only beat the team in front of you and we have been ruthless.
But you canâ€™t give him that much space to run into ,schoolboy defending.
Against better teams he dosnt get that space.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 10, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sterling has been great and I am pleased to see it. My only moan would be seeing him do it against a big side rather than Bulgaria and Kosovo but confidence is a big factor
		
Click to expand...

He does it in the Premier League every week against better sides than Bulgaria and Kosovo. He's been unreal that half, they can't touch him. Even if he was trying to score on the last one, haha. 

I think Sancho should absolutely be starting ahead of Rashford as well. Looks a far better player.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 10, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Maddison and Mount sat on the bench, both young talented central midfielders, both playing far better than Barkley this season and both should have started ahead of Barkley. I think we should have gone Maddison personally.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I think your correct .
Hopefully he will be on second half.
We will need these lads sooner than we think. They need to be playing as we donâ€™t need a holding midfielder any more tonight.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 10, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			He does it in the Premier League every week against better sides than Bulgaria and Kosovo. He's been unreal that half, they can't touch him. Even if he was trying to score on the last one, haha.

I think Sancho should absolutely be starting ahead of Rashford as well. Looks a far better player.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair I think Rashford played against a better defence Sunday.
But Sancho will take some moving if he carryâ€™s on like this.
Itâ€™s a nice problem for GS.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 10, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			He does it in the Premier League every week against better sides than Bulgaria and Kosovo. He's been unreal that half, they can't touch him. Even if he was trying to score on the last one, haha. 

I think Sancho should absolutely be starting ahead of Rashford as well. Looks a far better player.
		
Click to expand...

I agree but having seen him struggle before I am not 100% certain he can do it against to INTERNATIONAL sides. He struggled for ages (7 goals in 45 appearances) but is on a rich vein but how does he go against a tight (park the bus) defence or a top nation


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 10, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Moneyball doesn't really translate to football anyway. Football can't be broken down into quantitative stats like baseball can. People just started using the word 'Moneyball' for detailed scouting because the film was popular. For example, in Moneyball (the film anyway) they look for players who 'get on base' because doing that directly translates into runs. But a lot of football stats don't directly equal goals so it doesn't work the same. e.g. Jorginho making the most passes but didn't assist a single goal last season.
		
Click to expand...

But if you read the bbc piece it actually quotes Jorghinho as being outta position in one game where City take advantage


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 10, 2019)

Great start to the 2nd Half


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 10, 2019)

Well this game sums us up really. Our attack would worry any nation on earth, but our midfield and central defence are piss poor in all honesty.


----------



## fundy (Sep 10, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I agree but having seen him struggle before I am not 100% certain he can do it against to INTERNATIONAL sides. He struggled for ages (7 goals in 45 appearances) but is on a rich vein but how does he go against a tight (park the bus) defence or a top nation
		
Click to expand...


geez you post some rubbish at times Homie, hes doing it week in week out for both City and England, his form from prior years completely irrelevant surely, hes just not the same player. As for not breaking down top sides, well if he isnt able to do it for us, who do you want in his place? If we cant break down better sides it wont be his fault but for the static rubbish playing behind him in midfield


----------



## fundy (Sep 10, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Well this game sums us up really. Our attack would worry any nation on earth, but our midfield and central defence are piss poor in all honesty.
		
Click to expand...

used to it as an Arsenal fan


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 10, 2019)

fundy said:



			geez you post some rubbish at times Homie, hes doing it week in week out for both City and England, his form from prior years completely irrelevant surely, hes just not the same player. As for not breaking down top sides, well if he isnt able to do it for us, who do you want in his place? If we cant break down better sides it wont be his fault but for the static rubbish playing behind him in midfield
		
Click to expand...

Sterling has been a quality player for a long time now - he was superb for us , moved and had a settling in period but then the last three years he has been outstanding for his club and despite not scoring much also for his country , 

The issue Sterling had was Southgate playing him as a second striker when itâ€™s clear his best role was as part of a front three - the front three England have now have the potential to be lethal with decent back up.

A number of people on here where very vocal in the negative about him because he didnâ€™t score enough goals- riburnside was very vocal about him


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 10, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The issue Sterling had was Southgate playing him as a second striker when itâ€™s clear his best role was as part of a front three - the front three England have now have the potential to be lethal with decent back up.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. Sterling, Sancho and Kane is such an exciting front 3.


----------



## Beezerk (Sep 10, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Maddison and Mount sat on the bench, both young talented central midfielders, both playing far better than Barkley this season and both should have started ahead of Barkley. I think we should have gone Maddison personally.
		
Click to expand...

Barkley and Henderson just don't have enough quality at international level, Henderson reminds me of Scott Parker in a way


----------



## fundy (Sep 10, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			Barkley and Henderson just don't have enough quality at international level, Henderson reminds me of Scott Parker in a way 

Click to expand...

Cant say Im a Henderson fan but hes no Scott Parker


----------



## Beezerk (Sep 10, 2019)

fundy said:



			Cant say Im a Henderson fan but hes no Scott Parker 

Click to expand...

Get the ball, do half a turn and give it to someone else, rinse and repeat.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 10, 2019)

Beezerk said:



*Barkley and Henderson just don't have enough quality at international level*, Henderson reminds me of Scott Parker in a way 

Click to expand...

100%, they are both poor. I can't believe they've started both these games.


----------



## fundy (Sep 10, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			Get the ball, do half a turn and give it to someone else, rinse and repeat.
		
Click to expand...

ah the Vinny Sideways approach


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 10, 2019)

Not convinced by Slabhead and Keane at the back, they're too similar, think Keane should probably go in favour of Gomez.


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 10, 2019)

Horrendous tackle on Mount that. Clear red for me.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 10, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sterling has been a quality player for a long time now - he was superb for us , moved and had a settling in period but then the last three years he has been outstanding for his club and despite not scoring much also for his country ,

The issue Sterling had was Southgate playing him as a second striker when itâ€™s clear his best role was as part of a front three - the front three England have now have the potential to be lethal with decent back up.

A number of people on here where very vocal in the negative about him because he didnâ€™t score enough goals- riburnside was very vocal about him
		
Click to expand...

I would say heâ€™s not the same player that played for us.
But heâ€™s more experienced now and itâ€™s showing.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 10, 2019)

Howâ€™s that not a red.
Nice to see a bit of youth all 8 mins of it.
We should be on the front foot but are playing on the break.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 10, 2019)

fundy said:



			ah the Vinny Sideways approach 

Click to expand...

I think you mean Ray (the crab ) Wilkins.


----------



## fundy (Sep 10, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think you mean Ray (the crab ) Wilkins.
		
Click to expand...

the original was Butch, Sideways took it to a new level though


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 10, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sterling has been a quality player for a long time now - he was superb for us , moved and had a settling in period but then the last three years he has been outstanding for his club and despite not scoring much also for his country , 

The issue Sterling had was Southgate playing him as a second striker when itâ€™s clear his best role was as part of a front three - the front three England have now have the potential to be lethal with decent back up.

A number of people on here where very vocal in the negative about him because he didnâ€™t score enough goals- riburnside was very vocal about him
		
Click to expand...

I'll hold my hands up. I was very vocal about him. And whilst playing as part of a three has obviously helped his game. He still missed far too many chances. His starting position now has zero relevance in regards to his improved prowess infront of goal. At least not in regards to composure.

I still think the midfield is poor. Need a creative player in there so against the better teams sterling isn't always expected to run thiugh a team. 

Am happy he's proved me wrong.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 10, 2019)

Thought the game was better without VAR no stops ,but a few dodgy calls.
Red card 
Keeper off the line.

We made that harder than it should have been.
Thought they played well second half but at 5-1 down they just had a go.
Our midfield needs something else to many sideways backwards balls.
Some shocking passes from our lads they need to sort that out.


----------



## pokerjoke (Sep 10, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I would say heâ€™s not the same player that played for us.
But heâ€™s more experienced now and itâ€™s showing.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed
If he was this good for Liverpool there would have been uproar for selling him.
All the credit goes to Pep for giving him the confidence to express himself.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 10, 2019)

fundy said:



			the original was Butch, Sideways took it to a new level though 

Click to expand...

I'll take your Parker and raise you with a David Batty. Not sure anyone can top Wilkins for sideways passing though.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 10, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I would say heâ€™s not the same player that played for us.
But heâ€™s more experienced now and itâ€™s showing.
		
Click to expand...

He was only 17 -19 at that time, pretty obvious he wasnâ€™t the same player but he had lots of raw talent and ability, which has improved under Pep and its no real surprise to see how his performances have improved. Not the finished article just yet though.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 10, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'll take your Parker and raise you with a David Batty. Not sure anyone can top Wilkins for sideways passing though.
		
Click to expand...

I think this present bunch are having a go.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Sep 10, 2019)

If thats the best defence we have, then I suggest we give up now.
Good to see the Kosovan's copying Kane at the slightest hint of being shot.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 10, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Agreed. Sterling, Sancho and Kane is such an exciting front 3.
		
Click to expand...

Hmm who was the hairy one that said he would put sancho in instead of rashford  after the last game . Sancho just has grace.
To be honest it has worked in our favour the midfield being rammed  it gives the golden waistcoat time to think about Foden and others  re defence


----------



## Norrin Radd (Sep 11, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'll take your Parker and raise you with a David Batty. Not sure anyone can top Wilkins for sideways passing though.
		
Click to expand...

I think you will find that a certain world cup winning captain invented the sideways pass ,Bobby Moore rarely if ever passed the ball forward,even when he played for West Ham


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 11, 2019)

Norrin Radd said:



			I think you will find that a certain world cup winning captain invented the sideways pass ,Bobby Moore rarely if ever passed the ball forward,even when he played for West Ham
		
Click to expand...

Tbf he wasn't in the team to add creativity in anyway though. 

I've no problem with the midfielders who played last night. But not all 3 of em together.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 11, 2019)

Going forward we look as potent as any of the major nations but at the back we're far too leaky and ultimately it'll cost in tournaments. I don't know the answer as none of the combinations seem overly better than the next. Add in a midfield that can be static and lacks that creative flair and I fear the front line is flattering the rest of the issues


----------



## ColchesterFC (Sep 11, 2019)

Who else do we have that could come into the defence? There's obviously Gomez at Liverpool (is he injured at the minute?) but after that it seems the cupboard is pretty bare. I think apart from that we're a pretty decent team. We've got decent full backs and the front three aren't too shabby with cover for all those positions. Could probably do with another striker in case Kane gets injured as I'm not sure Rashford is the answer right now. Would definitely give Maddison a run instead of Barkley and possibly give Mount a go, as he seems to get rave reviews but I haven't seen enough of him myself to make that call. Still not convinced by Rice and Henderson together but not sure who could come in for them. Foden either needs to start getting more minutes at Man City or go out on loan for a season to let him play.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 11, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Who else do we have that could come into the defence? There's obviously Gomez at Liverpool (is he injured at the minute?) but after that it seems the cupboard is pretty bare. I think apart from that we're a pretty decent team. We've got decent full backs and the front three aren't too shabby with cover for all those positions. Could probably do with another striker in case Kane gets injured as I'm not sure Rashford is the answer right now. Would definitely give Maddison a run instead of Barkley and possibly give Mount a go, as he seems to get rave reviews but I haven't seen enough of him myself to make that call. Still not convinced by Rice and Henderson together but not sure who could come in for them. Foden either needs to start getting more minutes at Man City or go out on loan for a season to let him play.
		
Click to expand...

I agree. The defensive cupboard is bare bar Gomez and the midfield seems to lack a spark that someone like a Modric could supply. We must have someone that can collect a ball and then make a killer pass or know when to hold onto the ball


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 11, 2019)

Norrin Radd said:



			I think you will find that a certain world cup winning captain invented the sideways pass ,Bobby Moore rarely if ever passed the ball forward,even when he played for West Ham
		
Click to expand...

Did you ever see him play?

As a defender Moore was renowned for his range of passing due to his ability to see the game in front of him, both at club and international level.

Just look at the ball he played for the fourth goal in the WC Final.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 11, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Who else do we have that could come into the defence? There's obviously Gomez at Liverpool (is he injured at the minute?) but after that it seems the cupboard is pretty bare. I think apart from that we're a pretty decent team. We've got decent full backs and the front three aren't too shabby with cover for all those positions. Could probably do with another striker in case Kane gets injured as I'm not sure Rashford is the answer right now. Would definitely give Maddison a run instead of Barkley and possibly give Mount a go, as he seems to get rave reviews but I haven't seen enough of him myself to make that call. Still not convinced by Rice and Henderson together but not sure who could come in for them. Foden either needs to start getting more minutes at Man City or go out on loan for a season to let him play.
		
Click to expand...

The issue is Southgate clearly doesnâ€™t trust his CB pairing to be strong enough so has two player sitting - Maguire well he isnâ€™t a top CB but he is good in a three where his deficiencies can be covered , Gomez would be imo a good partner for him but he has started a bit rusty so far. There is also the issue of the GK - again he imo isnâ€™t the best they can pick , Pope and Heaton imo are better. 

Then in the middle Rice and Henderson can work but they need to let one move forward and carry the ball - Henderson was superb for us when Fabinho came in and sat , so if you allow that and add in either a Maddison or a Mount then you start to have a very bright England team as long as the tactics are right 

Pope

TAA
Gomez
Maguire
Chilwell

Rice
Henderson 
Maddison

Sancho
Kane
Sterling 

Against the lesser nations you could prob bring in a Barkley for Rice or Henderson 

I donâ€™t believe players like Foden can be included until he starts doing it week in week out in the Prem


----------



## MegaSteve (Sep 11, 2019)

fundy said:



			happy with that, looks accurate through my tints 

Click to expand...

Probably doesn't need any additional reasons... But won't be helpful for getting Kroenke  to loosen the purse strings...


----------



## pokerjoke (Sep 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The issue is Southgate clearly doesnâ€™t trust his CB pairing to be strong enough so has two player sitting - Maguire well he isnâ€™t a top CB but he is good in a three where his deficiencies can be covered , Gomez would be imo a good partner for him but he has started a bit rusty so far. There is also the issue of the GK - again he imo isnâ€™t the best they can pick , Pope and Heaton imo are better.

Then in the middle Rice and Henderson can work but they need to let one move forward and carry the ball - Henderson was superb for us when Fabinho came in and sat , so if you allow that and add in either a Maddison or a Mount then you start to have a very bright England team as long as the tactics are right

Pope

TAA
Gomez
Maguire
Chilwell

Rice
Henderson
Maddison

Sancho
Kane
Sterling

Against the lesser nations you could prob bring in a Barkley for Rice or Henderson

I donâ€™t believe players like Foden can be included until he starts doing it week in week out in the Prem
		
Click to expand...

But you would happily put Gomez in whoâ€™s played 1 P/L game this season


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The issue is Southgate clearly doesnâ€™t trust his CB pairing to be strong enough so has two player sitting - Maguire well he isnâ€™t a top CB but he is good in a three where his deficiencies can be covered , Gomez would be imo a good partner for him but he has started a bit rusty so far. There is also the issue of the GK - again he imo isnâ€™t the best they can pick , Pope and Heaton imo are better.

Then in the middle Rice and Henderson can work but they need to let one move forward and carry the ball - Henderson was superb for us when Fabinho came in and sat , so if you allow that and add in either a Maddison or a Mount then you start to have a very bright England team as long as the tactics are right

Pope

TAA
Gomez
Maguire
Chilwell

Rice
Henderson
Maddison

Sancho
Kane
Sterling

Against the lesser nations you could prob bring in a Barkley for Rice or Henderson

I donâ€™t believe players like Foden can be included until he starts doing it week in week out in the Prem
		
Click to expand...


So Maguire isnâ€™t a top CB but Gomez is just rusty?

Ah mate. Youâ€™re never a Liverpool fan, are you?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 11, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			So Maguire isnâ€™t a top CB but Gomez is just rusty?

Ah mate. Youâ€™re never a Liverpool fan, are you?
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ Itâ€™s always the same reaction with you 

Yes I donâ€™t believe Maguire is a top CB , do you think he is ? 

Gomez showed his ability last season before getting injured both for club and country and was superb , he has still done well this season but hasnâ€™t got going yet after that injury but when he finds full fitness and form is imo the best English CB on offer 

And it has zero to do with who I support - itâ€™s getting rather boring from you with just the constant little snipey one line answers - you appear to offer nothing else but to dismiss others opinions. Maybe one day you might surprise us all and actually offer an opinion.


----------



## pokerjoke (Sep 11, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			So Maguire isnâ€™t a top CB but Gomez is just rusty?

Ah mate. Youâ€™re never a Liverpool fan, are you?
		
Click to expand...

Yes a Liverpool fan and a very biased one.
Didnâ€™t you see all the big clubs fighting over Gomez


----------



## pokerjoke (Sep 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ Itâ€™s always the same reaction with you

Yes I donâ€™t believe Maguire is a top CB , do you think he is ?

Gomez showed his ability last season before getting injured both for club and country and was superb , he has still done well this season but hasnâ€™t got going yet after that injury but when he finds full fitness and form is imo the best English CB on offer

And it has zero to do with who I support - itâ€™s getting rather boring from you with just the constant little snipey one line answers - you appear to offer nothing else but to dismiss others opinions. Maybe one day you might surprise us all and actually offer an opinion.
		
Click to expand...

Calling someone boring and snipey is just classic hypocrite Phil all over.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 11, 2019)

Norrin Radd said:



			I think you will find that a certain world cup winning captain invented the sideways pass ,Bobby Moore rarely if ever passed the ball forward,even when he played for West Ham
		
Click to expand...

Yes but he was a CB the midfield are supposed to create ,well at least one of them is.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 11, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Who else do we have that could come into the defence? There's obviously Gomez at Liverpool (is he injured at the minute?) but after that it seems the cupboard is pretty bare. I think apart from that we're a pretty decent team. We've got decent full backs and the front three aren't too shabby with cover for all those positions. Could probably do with another striker in case Kane gets injured as I'm not sure Rashford is the answer right now. Would definitely give Maddison a run instead of Barkley and possibly give Mount a go, as he seems to get rave reviews but I haven't seen enough of him myself to make that call. Still not convinced by Rice and Henderson together but not sure who could come in for them. Foden either needs to start getting more minutes at Man City or go out on loan for a season to let him play.
		
Click to expand...

Agree with all of that. We are limited in terms of centre backs, but Gomez I think is the one for the future. Barkley is brainless and Maddison has far more class and intelligence in my opinion. I don't know what he has to do to be given a chance. Obviously biased as a Spurs fan, but I would have Winks in for Henderson long term, similar kind of player but much classier on the ball. Henderson always looks like he doesn't know what to do with it. Winks is a lot more mobile. And I have to agree on Foden as well - playing 5 league cup games and a dead rubber against Shakhtar this season is not going to be enough to get him in the England side. We have to see what he can do in a regular starting role. If he can get that then there's a strong possibility he'll be ahead of Hendo & Winks in the supporting midfield role. 

The attack picks itself. I'd have Sterling, Kane & Sancho starting every game now. They would give any defence in the world nightmares.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 11, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			Yes a Liverpool fan and a very biased one.
Didnâ€™t you see all the big clubs fighting over Gomez
		
Click to expand...

Gomez hasnâ€™t really got back to his full fitness imo , the games he has played he looked very tentative but that will pass.
As with any major injury itâ€™s probably in his head.
I am sure he will be ok in the future.
But Matip has played well so deserves his place.

I thought maguire played ok last night, some of his passing was very good .
But if the team is pushing forward and a holding player (Rice ) gives the ball away the CB are exposed and that happened to much last night.
Against a better team that would be punished.
Would just add that he should not go to ground like he did for the penalty, very clumsy.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Sep 11, 2019)

Shouldnt this boring international stuff be on a separate thread, as this is a premier league thread.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 11, 2019)

There are a few others for midfield but for me Winks is a decent player but I donâ€™t see him having anything more than what is on offer - doesnâ€™t seem imo to have the extra little bit beyond a decent Prem player. A centre of Winks and Rice against the top teams ? Can see that being overrun 

The one player who imo I would have in there is Loftus Cheek - he if fit would be a perfect foil for a sitting centre mid 

But a lot of it will be down to the tactics And how much Southgate trusts the CB pairing 

With two fullbacks going forward acting like wingers you need a strong CB pairing and one must have pace and ability on the ball ( we have it with VVD ) - Keane and Maguire are most certainly not that , thatâ€™s were Gomez comes in , he has that pace and ability on the ball to work with someone like Maguire and help cover the gaps with your fullbacks going forward and with the help of 1 sitting DM

The potential for England is there - need the right tactics and manager to apply that potential


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 11, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Shouldnt this boring international stuff be on a separate thread, as this is a premier league thread. 

Click to expand...

Thereâ€™s no premier league stuff to moan about.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 11, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Who else do we have that could come into the defence? There's obviously Gomez at Liverpool (is he injured at the minute?) but after that it seems the cupboard is pretty bare. I think apart from that we're a pretty decent team. We've got decent full backs and the front three aren't too shabby with cover for all those positions. Could probably do with another striker in case Kane gets injured as I'm not sure Rashford is the answer right now. Would definitely give Maddison a run instead of Barkley and possibly give Mount a go, as he seems to get rave reviews but I haven't seen enough of him myself to make that call. Still not convinced by Rice and Henderson together but not sure who could come in for them. Foden either needs to start getting more minutes at Man City or go out on loan for a season to let him play.
		
Click to expand...

At the moment, Mount has played 4 games for Chelsea and has a full international cap. Foden has played 19 times for City and is awaiting his first.  This season will be another learning year for Foden. I and just about every City fan wants to see him play more, but it is David Silvas last year in a City shirt so I expect him to get a fair bit of play time. Foden should drop into the vacancy left by DS. Chuck in a midfield of Fernadinho, Gunoghan, KDB and B Silva. Well his apprenticeship is coming along nicely. Am busting a gut to see Foden do at Full international what he is currently doing at U 21 level. Gotta say Pep is keeping his feet on the floor. 
Come what May the future of Engands midfield should not centre around Rice, Henderson and Barkley.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There are a few others for midfield but for me Winks is a decent player but I donâ€™t see him having anything more than what is on offer - doesnâ€™t seem imo to have the extra little bit beyond a decent Prem player. A centre of Winks and Rice against the top teams ? Can see that being overrun

The one player who imo I would have in there is Loftus Cheek - he if fit would be a perfect foil for a sitting centre mid

But a lot of it will be down to the tactics And how much Southgate trusts the CB pairing

With two fullbacks going forward acting like wingers you need a strong CB pairing and one must have pace and ability on the ball ( we have it with VVD ) - Keane and Maguire are most certainly not that , thatâ€™s were Gomez comes in , he has that pace and ability on the ball to work with someone like Maguire and help cover the gaps with your fullbacks going forward and with the help of 1 sitting DM

The potential for England is there - need the right tactics and manager to apply that potential
		
Click to expand...

Rice and Winks are young though, they have lots of time to improve, and getting them alongside each other early will help them form a good midfield partnership in the long run.

Loftus-Cheek is an attacking midfielder, he would not be 'sitting in centre mid'. Good player though I agree. When he's fit and Oxlade is back to fitness I hope we never see Barkley or Lingard in another squad again.

I thought the whole reason he went to a back 5 for the World Cup was because he didn't trust the centre backs. We're in exactly the same situation on that but he's gone to a back four anyway. Bit odd.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 11, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			At the moment, Mount has played 4 games for Chelsea and has a full international cap. Foden has played 19 times for City and is awaiting his first.  This season will be another learning year for Foden. I and just about every City fan wants to see him play more, but it is David Silvas last year in a City shirt so I expect him to get a fair bit of play time. *Foden should drop into the vacancy left by DS*. Chuck in a midfield of Fernadinho, Gunoghan, KDB and B Silva. Well his apprenticeship is coming along nicely. Am busting a gut to see Foden do at Full international what he is currently doing at U 21 level. Gotta say Pep is keeping his feet on the floor.
Come what May the future of Engands midfield should not centre around Rice, Henderson and Barkley.
		
Click to expand...

You say that, but we know full well City will drop Â£70mil on a 'proper' replacement for David Silva in the summer, and Foden will be in the same boat. Pep has clearly developed the lad really well, but now is the time he needs to be playing week in week out, not 10 mins here and a league cup game there.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 11, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Gomez hasnâ€™t really got back to his full fitness imo , the games he has played he looked very tentative but that will pass.
As with any major injury itâ€™s probably in his head.
I am sure he will be ok in the future.
But Matip has played well so deserves his place.

I thought maguire played ok last night, some of his passing was very good .
But if the team is pushing forward and a holding player (Rice ) gives the ball away the CB are exposed and that happened to much last night.
Against a better team that would be punished.
Would just add that he should not go to ground like he did for the penalty, very clumsy.
		
Click to expand...

When Pep came to City and we started passing it out from the back, by half time every toilet was empty of paper. Fans were crapping themselves "screaming lump it.forward". Now everyone knows what there doing it looks fantastic seeing defending players comfortable on the ball.
Relate that to England, as much as I like to see it playing out from the back. They look clueless. Two defensive midfielders? They don't look like they know where they should be.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 11, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			You say that, but we know full well City will drop Â£70mil on a 'proper' replacement for David Silva in the summer, and Foden will be in the same boat. Pep has clearly developed the lad really well, but now is the time he needs to be playing week in week out, not 10 mins here and a league cup game there.
		
Click to expand...

Irrespective of Foden or Mount, any player that is in the Squad that has played less than 50 games eg,  shows how weak we are. Foden is good, very good. But put him in front of KDB, both Silvas. It is not going to happen short term.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 11, 2019)

The biggest issue for me is the fact that as a side as a whole we continue to give the ball away far too cheaply and as we've seen in tournaments against good sides, especially those with pace, that can cost us


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 11, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The biggest issue for me is the fact that as a side as a whole we continue to give the ball away far too cheaply and as we've seen in tournaments against good sides, especially those with pace, that can cost us


For me Homer, playing two defensive midfielders upsets the whole balance of the team. IT is poor to play out from the back, and even poorer to link to the front. How many creative midfielders do you know that does not look comfortable on the ball. How many Prem clubs play with two def midfielders. We are asking 11 players to play in a system that is not recognisable at any of there clubs.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 11, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Rice and Winks are young though, they have lots of time to improve, and getting them alongside each other early will help them form a good midfield partnership in the long run.

*Loftus-Cheek is an attacking midfielder, he would not be 'sitting in centre mid'.* Good player though I agree. When he's fit and Oxlade is back to fitness I hope we never see Barkley or Lingard in another squad again.

I thought the whole reason he went to a back 5 for the World Cup was because he didn't trust the centre backs. We're in exactly the same situation on that but he's gone to a back four anyway. Bit odd.
		
Click to expand...

I didnt say Loftus Cheek would be "sitting in Centre Mid"

Southgate went to a back four at the start of last season when he brought in Gomez alongside another CB - it worked better because of the abilities of Gomez and allowed a front three to be created. 

Barkley isnt a bad player but should be behind others within the squad

Rice will prob end up a CB , Winks - yep maybe young but it doesnt seem to have that star factor and i dont expect him to progress too much.

Ox needs to fit the fitness and form he had before his injury 

But your three in the middle should be a combination of

Rice ,Henderson , Maddison , Oxlade , RLC , Mount ? ( if he continues to develop ) , Winks and Ali 

As for Foden - if he is that good then he should be playing every week - even out on loan , i dont understand why he didnt go on loan to get the games under his belt - the only way he can show he is good enough and its not just all talk based on the odd cameo appearance is to play week in week out either in the Prem or abroad. Sancho made the move and look at him. If not Foden imo will end up being the new Wilshire


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 11, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			For me Homer, playing two defensive midfielders upsets the whole balance of the team. IT is poor to play out from the back, and even poorer to link to the front. How many creative midfielders do you know that does not look comfortable on the ball. How many Prem clubs play with two def midfielders. We are asking 11 players to play in a system that is not recognisable at any of there clubs.
		
Click to expand...

I agree that Southgate isn't playing a system that most players are comfy with in terms of the two defensive midfielders and do they really have time to learn and integrate this in the short periods they have together. Personally I'd like to see one holding and find someone willing to pick up a ball and move forward and look for a pass. However I still think we turn the possession over too often


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 11, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			When Pep came to City and we started passing it out from the back, by half time every toilet was empty of paper. Fans were crapping themselves "screaming lump it.forward". Now everyone knows what there doing it looks fantastic seeing defending players comfortable on the ball.
Relate that to England, as much as I like to see it playing out from the back. They look clueless. Two defensive midfielders? They don't look like they know where they should be.
		
Click to expand...

I agree but thatâ€™s up to the manager.
What would Pep say about the square ball for two of their goals?
It would not be printable.
But if we can see it what is GS watching?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 11, 2019)

Must be a very slow night for sport when Sky Sports Main Event is a testimonial and they are sending out goal alerts


----------



## sam85 (Sep 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Must be a very slow night for sport when Sky Sports Main Event is a testimonial and they are sending out goal alerts
		
Click to expand...

It is though isn't it, I hate the international break. Roll on the weekend!!


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 12, 2019)

Fortunately for some of us we have had our live football fix tonight. Captain Vinnies testimonial. Pity Vinnie has picked up another injury and couldn't play. Ah that's the Vinnie I remember. Anyway, watching the game honestly reminded me of the Ex City icons on show tonight. Stephen Ireland aka superman, still thinks he has got it. Er no he hasn't. Benjani, Lordy Lordy, then scores an equaliser. Nigel de Jong, still kicking them. But and flippin but. What caught my eye was players that haven't lost it. Shauny Wright Wright Wright. He has lost a couple of yards and it shows. However, Robin van Persie, Robbie Keane, mikel arteta, Paul Scholes and Michael Carrick were quality and I mean quality. Don't get me wrong now I see City flowing with the midfield football on display, maybe it was easy to notice. But watching those I have mentioned it was nice on the eye, real nice. Carrick and Scholes are the two players missing from Englands midfield. I cannot believe I am bigging up two Utd players but the time they had on the ball, the way it linked from back to front was a joy to watch. Arteta flippin Eck. Now it had me thinkin coming back over the Pennines. 
As a Utd fan I would of dribbled watching that every week. Is that part of the problem now that they have seen flowing football and now they are watching, well what they are watching.


----------



## Norrin Radd (Sep 12, 2019)

sam85 said:



			It is though isn't it, I hate the international break. Roll on the weekend!!
		
Click to expand...

Amen to that


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 12, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Fortunately for some of us we have had our live football fix tonight. Captain Vinnies testimonial. Pity Vinnie has picked up another injury and couldn't play. Ah that's the Vinnie I remember. Anyway, watching the game honestly reminded me of the Ex City icons on show tonight. Stephen Ireland aka superman, still thinks he has got it. Er no he hasn't. Benjani, Lordy Lordy, then scores an equaliser. Nigel de Jong, still kicking them. But and flippin but. What caught my eye was players that haven't lost it. Shauny Wright Wright Wright. He has lost a couple of yards and it shows. However, Robin van Persie, Robbie Keane, mikel arteta, Paul Scholes and Michael Carrick were quality and I mean quality. Don't get me wrong now I see City flowing with the midfield football on display, maybe it was easy to notice. But watching those I have mentioned it was nice on the eye, real nice. Carrick and Scholes are the two players missing from Englands midfield. I cannot believe I am bigging up two Utd players but the time they had on the ball, the way it linked from back to front was a joy to watch. Arteta flippin Eck. Now it had me thinkin coming back over the Pennines.
As a Utd fan I would of dribbled watching that every week. Is that part of the problem now that they have seen flowing football and now they are watching, well what they are watching.
		
Click to expand...

Great respect for Kompany using his money for the homeless .
Heâ€™s a proper football hero to lots of people.
Heâ€™s been lucky in life and to share that around is awesome.
Hope he stays in the game as his quality is hard to come by.
Except for a few dodgy tackles lol.


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 12, 2019)

@Orikoru 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...ue-referees-chief-admits-FOUR-errors-VAR.html

Var has made 4 errors apparently 

Kanes dive not one of them ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 12, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



@Orikoru

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...ue-referees-chief-admits-FOUR-errors-VAR.html

Var has made 4 errors apparently

Kanes dive not one of them ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Five errors by my count then.


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 12, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Five errors by my count then. 

Click to expand...

You sound like that tool on the rules forum about practice ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 12, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			You sound like that tool on the rules forum about practice ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Hey you brought it up again not me.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Sep 12, 2019)

Good to see the prem clubs trying to limit the use of plastic at grounds, worked well when I went the Ashes at OT last week with one cup for the whole game.

Wonder if they'll extend it to the flags at Chelsea, City, Everton.......


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 12, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Good to see the prem clubs trying to limit the use of plastic at grounds, worked well when I went the Ashes at OT last week with one cup for the whole game.

Wonder if they'll extend it to the flags at Chelsea, City, Everton....... 

Click to expand...

I know what your saying  my last four flags have champions on them. Could do to come second and save the environment ðŸ˜


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 13, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Good to see the prem clubs trying to limit the use of plastic at grounds, worked well when I went the Ashes at OT last week with one cup for the whole game.

Wonder if they'll extend it to the flags at Chelsea, City, Everton....... 

Click to expand...

At Newcastle they sell soft drinks in plastic bottles. They sell beer in plastic bottles, security and also the bottles get knocked over and smashed glass would be everywhere. You can buy pints but they again are in disposable plastic, presumably to stop breakages again. What are the suggestions to reduce their use? Will they go back to glass? Can paper cups last or would they disintegrate or be lined so not recyclable?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Sep 13, 2019)

At Twickenham and at OT cricket, you pay Â£1 for your first solid plastic pint glass, take it back get it swapped every pint, take it back at the end, get your Â£1 back, or keep as a souvenir as it has a pictorial "wrap" around it with pictures of the cricketers/ashes etc.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Sep 13, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			I know what your saying  my last four flags have champions on them. Could do to come second and save the environment ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Ours (home-made) has "Of Europe" on as well, willing to do a swap anytime you like.


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 13, 2019)

Big loss for City with Laporte out for up to six months.


----------



## Rlburnside (Sep 13, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Big loss for City with Laporte out for up to six months.
		
Click to expand...

They will miss him but a big loss is not what I would call it, if they can win the league without De Bruyne for a big part of the season they will manage.


----------



## Rooter (Sep 13, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Big loss for City with Laporte out for up to six months.
		
Click to expand...

And my fantasy team! had to whip him out! Gone for Kyle Walker... im sure i will regret that!


----------



## sam85 (Sep 13, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			They will miss him but a big loss is not what I would call it, if they can win the league without De Bruyne for a big part of the season they will manage.
		
Click to expand...

City have such strength in depth in midfield compared to at centre half though, that as much as De Bruyne is a top, top class player Laporte probably is going to be a bigger loss for City.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 13, 2019)

Rooter said:



			And my fantasy team! had to whip him out! Gone for Kyle Walker... im sure i will regret that!
		
Click to expand...

Cancelo will start now...

I was really surprised City didn't add a centre back with Kompany departing, and it's come back to bite them on the arse. They'll be fine most weeks of course, but they might come unstuck against one or two of the big teams with Otamendi and Stones at the back. It's not a great partnership. And if one of them gets suspended..?


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 13, 2019)

sam85 said:



			City have such strength in depth in midfield compared to at centre half though, that as much as De Bruyne is a top, top class player Laporte probably is going to be a bigger loss for City.
		
Click to expand...

Me finks you are correct unfortunately â˜¹ï¸


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 13, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Cancelo will start now...

I was really surprised City didn't add a centre back with Kompany departing, and it's come back to bite them on the arse. They'll be fine most weeks of course, but they might come unstuck against one or two of the big teams with Otamendi and Stones at the back. It's not a great partnership. And if one of them gets suspended..?
		
Click to expand...

Oddly enough, Pep has talked about putting Fernandinho in as a centre half. If he drops in as well as Zinchenko does then happy days. Injury aside for Laporte, am gutted for him, he had just got his call up for the French squad and gets injured.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 13, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Oddly enough, Pep has talked about putting Fernandinho in as a centre half. If he drops in as well as Zinchenko does then happy days. Injury aside for Laporte, am gutted for him, he had just got his call up for the French squad and gets injured.
		
Click to expand...

Fernandinho is fine but what is he, 5'8? If you play a team with any aerial presence he's not really your man.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 13, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Fernandinho is fine but what is he, 5'8? If you play a team with any aerial presence he's not really your man.
		
Click to expand...

5 ft 10" and his stats say 67 kg, ðŸ˜³ Bruiser don't spring to mind.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 13, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			5 ft 10" and his stats say 67 kg, ðŸ˜³ Bruiser don't spring to mind.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure about that he kicks enough people!!
He wonâ€™t be able to commit as many fouls as he does now if he plays CB.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 13, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not sure about that he kicks enough people!!
He wonâ€™t be able to commit as many fouls as he does now if he plays CB.
		
Click to expand...

Ave a feeling he may get a few kicks in the box ðŸ˜


----------



## Pin-seeker (Sep 13, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1172525775498752000
Bless em,theyâ€™ve made up ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## fundy (Sep 13, 2019)

the more I see of Bielik the more it looks a mistake to have all but forced him out, better than a lot of what we have currently and way more potential


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 14, 2019)

Might as well just get rid of VAR - itâ€™s just a complete waste of time


----------



## sam85 (Sep 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Might as well just get rid of VAR - itâ€™s just a complete waste of time
		
Click to expand...

I do think there is a place in football for VAR but  it really is being "used" so poorly right now.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 14, 2019)

sam85 said:



			I do think there is a place in football for VAR but  it really is being "used" so poorly right now.
		
Click to expand...

I just find it amazing that they even looked at this and still didnâ€™t see it as a pen




It is as clear as day a foul , video shows it even worse - and the awful Mariner was seen just watching it.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 14, 2019)

Great first half from Norwich who are missing half their team , City look very vulnerable from set pieces , losing Laporte could be a huge miss. No idea why he didnâ€™t start De Bryune


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Great first half from Norwich who are missing half their team , City look very vulnerable from set pieces , losing Laporte could be a huge miss. No idea why he didnâ€™t start De Bryune
		
Click to expand...

Showing little respect to Norwich  by thinking he doesn't need KDB

Pukki is excellent


----------



## sawtooth (Sep 14, 2019)

Thereâ€™s not too many teams that would be only 4/1 to win away when  3-1 down with only 30 minutes left.


----------



## pokerjoke (Sep 14, 2019)

2019
The year Liverpool won the title
Congratulations


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 14, 2019)

Quite happy I put a few City players into my fantasy team ðŸ˜‚ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 14, 2019)

And they said Laporte wouldnâ€™t be missed...

KDB isnâ€™t that long back from injury. Players have to be rested at times. Itâ€™s not lack of respect to rotate, sometimes these things happen.


----------



## davemc1 (Sep 14, 2019)

Times motd on?


----------



## JamesR (Sep 14, 2019)

Bet the Citeh fans are less than chuffed ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 14, 2019)

Norwich deserve great credit, they were superb and never rolled over for City. 

Others need to take note.


----------



## Fish (Sep 14, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Worst looking Chelsea squad in years, Zouma, Mount, Barkley, and Ok he scored a brace today but Abraham Really?

Lampard needs a miracle to finish top 6 with that lot. I hope he stays a long time though lol ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Yes really, even had the audacity to score a 4th for them ðŸ˜œ ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 14, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Norwich deserve great credit, they were superb and never rolled over for City.

Others need to take note.
		
Click to expand...

They had 3 shots on target. 

They worked hard n countered well, but for me itâ€™s just one of those days that goes for you. They could perform like that 10 times and likely lose the other 9.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 14, 2019)

Poor from City and definitely a huge boost for Liverpool. Has Lampard found something as I thought their game at Wolves today would have been a real tough one but they were so dominant


----------



## Canary_Yellow (Sep 14, 2019)

On the ball City!


----------



## sawtooth (Sep 14, 2019)

Fish said:



			Yes really, even had the audacity to score a 4th for them ðŸ˜œ ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Long way to go yet pal.ðŸ‘


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 14, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			They had 3 shots on target.

*They worked hard n countered well, *but for me itâ€™s just one of those days that goes for you. They could perform like that 10 times and likely lose the other 9.
		
Click to expand...

100% strike rate isnt too badðŸ‘

Which is why they deserve credit. Many teams would've tried to defend for 90 mins and not lay a glove on City.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 14, 2019)

That went well ðŸ˜


----------



## Fish (Sep 14, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			100% strike rate isnt too badðŸ‘

Which is why they deserve credit. Many teams would've tried to defend for 90 mins and not lay a glove on City.
		
Click to expand...

They were the same against us, not sure if itâ€™s reckless not knowing when to shut shop or itâ€™s a case of they think they can win by countering all the time, but whilst they score and convert well with limited opportunities, they donâ€™t create enough opportunities to control a game, itâ€™s smash & grab football, and whilst theyâ€™ll get the odd scalp, theyâ€™ll lose more than theyâ€™ll win with that kind of game plan imo.


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 14, 2019)

Fish said:



			They were the same against us, not sure if itâ€™s reckless not knowing when to shut shop or itâ€™s a case of they think they can win by countering all the time, but whilst they score and convert well with limited opportunities, they donâ€™t create enough opportunities to control a game, itâ€™s smash & grab football, and whilst theyâ€™ll get the odd scalp, theyâ€™ll lose more than theyâ€™ll win with that kind of game plan imo.
		
Click to expand...

Yea but most teams lose more than they win anyway so that stat isnâ€™t particular helpful.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 14, 2019)




----------



## HowlingGale (Sep 14, 2019)

Did anyone see the Chelsea match on MOTD? Alan Shearer congratulated Abraham for fouling the defender during his headed goal.
Forget the fact that the 'refs' using VAR didn't spot it, having pundits actively endorsing it is shocking. Kids will think it's OK now.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 15, 2019)

Fish said:



			They were the same against us, not sure if itâ€™s reckless not knowing when to shut shop or itâ€™s a case of they think they can win by countering all the time, but whilst they score and convert well with limited opportunities, they donâ€™t create enough opportunities to control a game, itâ€™s smash & grab football, and whilst theyâ€™ll get the odd scalp, theyâ€™ll lose more than theyâ€™ll win with that kind of game plan imo.
		
Click to expand...

I think in this case Norwich worked hard and each player gave 100%. The tactics they used is another debate. 

Not many top sides create 3 good chances against City or control the game nevermind the likes of Norwich. 

If Norwich sat back and shut up shop, City win that game. As it was they never and they deserve great credit for that.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 15, 2019)

It seems Pep has given up on winning the league this season with his after match thoughts. ðŸ¤­


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 15, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			That went well ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Very well *ðŸ‘*


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 15, 2019)

What a start to the season Abraham has had. I thought he looked excellent against United first game of the season and has kicked on brilliantly - 7 goals in the PL in 4 starts, scoring them at 47 minutes a piece, and he's only 21, has huge potential, think he's going to be very good for Chelsea. Rate him highly from what I've seen.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 15, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			What a start to the season Abraham has had. I thought he looked excellent against United first game of the season and has kicked on brilliantly - 7 goals in the PL in 4 starts, scoring them at 47 minutes a piece, and he's only 21, has huge potential, think he's going to be very good for Chelsea. Rate him highly from what I've seen.
		
Click to expand...

I honestly thought he was championship level at best. He's starting to prove me very wrong indeed. Let's see if he keeps it up or whether it's just a Mitrovic type purple patch.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 15, 2019)

HowlingGale said:



			Did anyone see the Chelsea match on MOTD? Alan Shearer congratulated Abraham for fouling the defender during his headed goal.
Forget the fact that the 'refs' using VAR didn't spot it, having pundits actively endorsing it is shocking. Kids will think it's OK now.
		
Click to expand...

Pros have always done that â€œ itâ€™s clever playâ€.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 15, 2019)

It looks like a really lovely day down on the south coast ðŸ¤­


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 15, 2019)

Well Watford are dire so far. Basically standing about and letting Arsenal walk it in. Disappointing.


----------



## anotherdouble (Sep 15, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			It looks like a really lovely day down on the south coast ðŸ¤­
		
Click to expand...

It is fam. The sun is out, the waves lapping gently on shingle. The ale is tasting great and the sea food to die for. Good day to be aliveðŸ‘


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 15, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Well Watford are dire so far. Basically standing about and letting Arsenal walk it in. Disappointing.
		
Click to expand...

Seriously thinking Watford are going down


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 15, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Seriously thinking Watford are going down
		
Click to expand...

Nah I think theyâ€™re safe, just , though thereâ€™s 3 worse squads than theirs.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 15, 2019)

anotherdouble said:



			It is fam. The sun is out, the waves lapping gently on shingle. The ale is tasting great and the sea food to die for. Good day to be aliveðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

And Bournemouth won.......

Enjoy it blud ðŸ˜‰


----------



## fundy (Sep 15, 2019)

anotherdouble said:



			It is fam. The sun is out, the waves lapping gently on shingle. The ale is tasting great and the sea food to die for. Good day to be aliveðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...


had a cracking seafood platter looking out over the sea to the isle of wight last night  off out again soon


----------



## fundy (Sep 15, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Well Watford are dire so far. Basically standing about and letting Arsenal walk it in. Disappointing.
		
Click to expand...

you rather they put up a fight like Palace did yesterday lol


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 15, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Nah I think theyâ€™re safe, just , though thereâ€™s 3 worse squads than theirs.
		
Click to expand...

I thought that when we went down with a record 42 points 

Di Canio, Defoe, j Cole, Carrick, g Johnson,  david james  , kanoute , les Ferdinand,  trevor Sinclair even fresh from Leeds Lee Bowyer


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 15, 2019)

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ @ Arsenal.

I hope the keeper and the back 4 have all lumped on BTTS ðŸ˜ðŸ˜


----------



## fundy (Sep 15, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ @ Arsenal.

I hope the keeper and the back 4 have all lumped on BTTS ðŸ˜ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...


I have 

struggle to see any reason not to in any of their games this season!!!!


----------



## anotherdouble (Sep 15, 2019)

fundy said:



			had a cracking seafood platter looking out over the sea to the isle of wight last night  off out again soon
		
Click to expand...

You canâ€™t beat it ðŸ‘


----------



## Robin Hood (Sep 15, 2019)

Toon Army keeping their heads above water ðŸ‘


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 15, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			And Bournemouth won.......

Enjoy it blud ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

This will always be there to get a smile 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....erpool-fans-jealous-everton-says-13312946.amp

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 15, 2019)

Haha what is Luiz doing there?


----------



## fundy (Sep 15, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha what is Luiz doing there?
		
Click to expand...

same he does every time, was clearly the answer to our defensive frailties lol, hard to be as bad as we have since half time


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 15, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha what is Luiz doing there?
		
Click to expand...

Doing what he always does - sticks out a leg to give a penalty


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 15, 2019)

fundy said:



			same he does every time, was clearly the answer to our defensive frailties lol, hard to be as bad as we have since half time
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ looking forward to AFTV ðŸ˜‚


----------



## fundy (Sep 15, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ looking forward to AFTV ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

straight out the door at the final whistle here


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 15, 2019)

5 live awash with City fans grumbling that they only spent Â£110 mil on squad players and then two of them claiming VVD would jump at the chance to move to City , to top it off a Utd fan claims that Utd have the second best team in the league and will push City this year ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

What did they put in the water up there this weekend ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ must be all that sun and weekend drinking ðŸ˜‚

5live is at times really entertaining with some of the views that come in from people from all teams


----------



## Pin-seeker (Sep 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			5 live awash with City fans grumbling that they only spent Â£110 mil on squad players and then two of them claiming VVD would jump at the chance to move to City , to top it off a Utd fan claims that Utd have the second best team in the league and will push City this year ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

What did they put in the water up there this weekend ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ must be all that sun and weekend drinking ðŸ˜‚

5live is at times really entertaining with some of the views that come in from people from all teams
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™m sure it was balanced out by the sensible scousers that phoned in ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 15, 2019)

fundy said:



			straight out the door at the final whistle here 

Click to expand...

A CB away from being a very good team , when is Holding back ? Also why the heck doesnâ€™t Torreira start ( given up wondering why Xhaka keeps getting played )


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			5 live awash with City fans grumbling that they only spent Â£110 mil on squad players and then two of them claiming VVD would jump at the chance to move to City , to top it off a Utd fan claims that Utd have the second best team in the league and will push City this year ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

What did they put in the water up there this weekend ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ must be all that sun and weekend drinking ðŸ˜‚

5live is at times really entertaining with some of the views that come in from people from all teams
		
Click to expand...

You do know they let the extreme views on to drive discussion, right? I know plenty of United fans and not a single one would even suggest weâ€™re near Liverpool or City at the moment.


----------



## Piece (Sep 15, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Nah I think theyâ€™re safe, just , though thereâ€™s 3 worse squads than theirs.
		
Click to expand...

Is the right answer. Took The Arsenal to the cleaners second half. Not bad for a dire team and going down....


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 15, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			You do know they let the extreme views on to drive discussion, right? I know plenty of United fans and not a single one would even suggest weâ€™re near Liverpool or City at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

That was kind of the point of the post hence the last comment ðŸ™„

Who phones in from many teams are hilarious at times - Talksport with the idiots on drive time are king of the extreme view


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That was kind of the point of the post hence the last comment ðŸ™„

Who phones in from many teams are hilarious at times - Talksport with the idiots on drive time are king of the extreme view
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, long weekend, didnâ€™t pick up on the tone.

I quite like the numpties who phone into Talksport. Itâ€™s clear that Adrian Durham is instructed to be a WUM and that Gough is told to take the safe stance. Every now and then they mix it up to keep it fresh but the callers just fall for it time after time after time.


----------



## Piece (Sep 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That was kind of the point of the post hence the last comment ðŸ™„

Who phones in from many teams are hilarious at times - Talksport with the idiots on drive time are king of the extreme view
		
Click to expand...

Yup 5live was comical. The deluded Arsenal fan and the City fan who started off rationally then his head exploded!


----------



## Slime (Sep 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That was kind of the point of the post hence the last comment ðŸ™„

Who phones in from many teams are hilarious at times - *Talksport with the idiots on drive time are king of the extreme view*

Click to expand...

No, I think that particular accolade goes to a chosen few on this forum!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 15, 2019)

Piece said:



			Yup 5live was comical. The deluded Arsenal fan and the City fan who started off rationally then his head exploded!
		
Click to expand...

The scary thing is they seem to believe it as well - there was one City fan going mad at Chelsea for â€œruiningâ€ the innocence of football because of the amount of money they have spent ðŸ˜‚ it was amusing listening to ABB try and tell him about City money - it seems the City money has come from sponsorship deals ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

The real fun starts when the West Ham or Everton fans phone in - the arguments of if they are big club and they are both just waiting to break into the top 4. 


Slime said:



			No, I think that particular accolade goes to a chosen few on this forum!
		
Click to expand...

Really ? There doesnâ€™t seem to be â€œextremeâ€ views on here - bias at times which is expected but extreme? Not seen much of that


----------



## fundy (Sep 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A CB away from being a very good team , when is Holding back ? Also why the heck doesnâ€™t Torreira start ( given up wondering why Xhaka keeps getting played )
		
Click to expand...

assume you saw my twitter post re Xhaka, Torreira cant get in our midfield utterly laughable

Holding Bellerin and Tierney all due back in the next week or two

Holding an improvement but not the answer on his own and still going to have a clown alongside (just a case of which one). Have tbh, not convinced Dick has a clue what hes doing, hope Im wrong but could be a long year where we need to score 3 or 4 in a lot of games!

Nice to see Ozil kick a ball for the last 5m hes earnt lol


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 15, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Seriously thinking Watford are going down
		
Click to expand...

Ha, sadly I didn't get to see the second half but it seems to have taken a different turn.


----------



## Slime (Sep 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The scary thing is they seem to believe it as well - there was one City fan going mad at Chelsea for â€œruiningâ€ the innocence of football because of the amount of money they have spent ðŸ˜‚ it was amusing listening to ABB try and tell him about City money - it seems the City money has come from sponsorship deals ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

The real fun starts when the West Ham or Everton fans phone in - the arguments of if they are big club and they are both just waiting to break into the top 4.


Really ? *There doesnâ€™t seem to be â€œextremeâ€ views on here - bias at times which is expected but extreme? *Not seen much of that
		
Click to expand...

Oh.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			5 live awash with City fans grumbling that they only spent Â£110 mil on squad players and then two of them claiming VVD would jump at the chance to move to City , to top it off a Utd fan claims that Utd have the second best team in the league and will push City this year ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

What did they put in the water up there this weekend ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ must be all that sun and weekend drinking ðŸ˜‚

5live is at times really entertaining with some of the views that come in from people from all teams
		
Click to expand...

Not been much sun here. Good weekend though.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 15, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Ha, sadly I didn't get to see the second half but it seems to have taken a different turn. 

Click to expand...

I thought Watford played well.
Final ball and finishing is poor though.
But Arsenal just folded.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Sep 16, 2019)




----------



## MegaSteve (Sep 16, 2019)

Piece said:



			Yup 5live was comical. The deluded Arsenal fan and the City fan who started off rationally then his head exploded!
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, in recent times, being a Gooner and deluded has become too often a comfortable fit ðŸ˜•ðŸ˜•...


----------



## MegaSteve (Sep 16, 2019)

fundy said:



			Nice to see Ozil kick a ball for the last 5m hes earnt lol
		
Click to expand...

Could've at least made an effort to look halfway interested whilst doing so...


----------



## Piece (Sep 16, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Unfortunately, in recent times, being a Gooner and deluded has become too often a comfortable fit ðŸ˜•ðŸ˜•...
		
Click to expand...

This caller said Arsenal would win the league this season. Also that Ozil was better than De Bruyne.


----------



## fundy (Sep 16, 2019)

Piece said:



			This caller said Arsenal would win the league this season. Also that Ozil was better than De Bruyne.
		
Click to expand...

We have some seriously deluded fans (im sure we got someone elses quota as well as our own)! Ozil about as useful as De Bruyne was when he was out for most the season lol. Win the league haha, we wont be within 25 points

Add in a manager who didnt address our major issue in defense and refuses to pick out best holding midfielder.................


----------



## MegaSteve (Sep 16, 2019)

Piece said:



			This caller said Arsenal would win the league this season. Also that Ozil was better than De Bruyne.
		
Click to expand...

Fortunately I've not yet achieved that level of delusion... But, unless Dick works some magic PDQ who knows what level I might slip to...


----------



## fundy (Sep 16, 2019)

whys Noble not walked for diving there having already been booked?


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 16, 2019)

fundy said:



			whys Noble not walked for diving there having already been booked?
		
Click to expand...

Just said var cant get involved if a goals not scored for that

I thought he just fell over st first 
Reason I didnt think dive is he got straight up didnt appeal for pen

Why dive then not appeal?


----------



## fundy (Sep 16, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Just said var cant get involved if a goals not scored for that

I thought he just fell over st first 
Reason I didnt think dive is he got straight up didnt appeal for pen

Why dive then not appeal?
		
Click to expand...

no comms on here, cant stand Smith lol, doesnt stop Dean sending him off, which considering the games been all about him so far im surprised he didnt take!

its a clear clear dive, maybe he realised just in time that appealing might not be a good idea!


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 16, 2019)

fundy said:



			no comms on here, cant stand Smith lol, doesnt stop Dean sending him off, which considering the games been all about him so far im surprised he didnt take!

its a clear clear dive, maybe he realised just in time that appealing might not be a good idea!
		
Click to expand...

Could be however I dont think hes that clever tbh


----------



## fundy (Sep 16, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Could be however I dont think hes that clever tbh
		
Click to expand...

pretty much my thought when i saw him dive!


----------



## fundy (Sep 16, 2019)

yet thats a sending off lol, mike dean at his best


----------



## Fade and Die (Sep 16, 2019)

Mike Dean you utter prick.


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 16, 2019)

fundy said:



			yet thats a sending off lol, mike dean at his best
		
Click to expand...

At first looking I thought Arthur you prat that's the same foul twice 

On seconding looking it did look very harsh but left himself in that position with a stupid foul early on


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 16, 2019)

Could moan that dodgy red card but after that it actually made us play better


----------



## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2019)

Damn........
Toon Army back in the relegation zone.


----------



## Jensen (Sep 17, 2019)

Robin Hood said:



			Damn........
Toon Army back in the relegation zone.
		
Click to expand...

Taxi for Fat Ashley, now that would be nice ðŸ‘


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 17, 2019)

So City now down to just one fit experienced CB and that is Otamendi ðŸ˜²

Heard talk that Pep said it was down funds yet he spent how much on two players that he really didnâ€™t need to get in Cancelo and Rodri at a cost of how much Â£130mil ? 

They let Kompany go and also Mangela and could have bought De Ligt for Â£60ish mil - a little bit more than they spent on a right back who wasnâ€™t needed ?! Seems a strange decision


----------



## fundy (Sep 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So City now down to just one fit experienced CB and that is Otamendi ðŸ˜²

Heard talk that Pep said it was down funds yet he spent how much on two players that he really didnâ€™t need to get in Cancelo and Rodri at a cost of how much Â£130mil ? 

They let Kompany go and also Mangela and could have bought De Ligt for Â£60ish mil - a little bit more than they spent on a right back who wasnâ€™t needed ?! Seems a strange decision
		
Click to expand...


and still they have better centre half options than we do lol


----------



## fundy (Sep 17, 2019)

get up Mane ffs thats embarrassing


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 17, 2019)

Our strikers have forgotten how to play a five yard pass to each other.
One of them games we need to take one of them chances, canâ€™t keep doing that.


----------



## Old Skier (Sep 17, 2019)

Can someone explain, giving a penalty when it's not a penalty is not a clear and obvious error.


----------



## hairball_89 (Sep 17, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			Can someone explain, giving a penalty when it's not a penalty is not a clear and obvious error.
		
Click to expand...

Because from the initial angle, it looked a pen. I thought it was a stone wall pen first view. Massively stupid and if we end up losing because of it, it's a real kick in the teeth. But, we've not been good enough over the 90.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 17, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			Can someone explain, giving a penalty when it's not a penalty is not a clear and obvious error.
		
Click to expand...

No I canâ€™t .
Not a clear and obvious error that was an obvious error ,????


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 17, 2019)

hairball_89 said:



			Because from the initial angle, it looked a pen. I thought it was a stone wall pen first view. Massively stupid and if we end up losing because of it, it's a real kick in the teeth. But, we've not been good enough over the 90.
		
Click to expand...

We havenâ€™t deserved to lose the game , prob not deserved to win it and we were havenâ€™t finished well or created well but the ref has ruined this game , early overreacting from Mane but the players have been kicked all game with the ref giving nothing against the home team - VAR is supposed to stop all this 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1174062611882815490
How thatâ€™s not overturned Iâ€™ll never know - itâ€™s embarrassing


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 17, 2019)

Got what we deserved there you canâ€™t miss that many chances against a good side.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			We havenâ€™t deserved to lose the game , prob not deserved to win it and we were havenâ€™t finished well or created well but the ref has ruined this game , early overreacting from Mane but the players have been kicked all game with the ref giving nothing against the home team - VAR is supposed to stop all this


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1174062611882815490
How thatâ€™s not overturned Iâ€™ll never know - itâ€™s embarrassing
		
Click to expand...

Thought the ref was piss poor ,nothing to do all night but got everything wrong imo.
Thatâ€™s a dive clear and obvious.
I donâ€™t understand clear and obvious any more what does that mean now?


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 17, 2019)

Heard there was an uncharacteristic mistake from VVD. On a positive side, at least you have a centre half ðŸ˜–


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 17, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Heard there was an uncharacteristic mistake from VVD. On a positive side, at least you have a centre half ðŸ˜–
		
Click to expand...

That wasnâ€™t the problem .
The strikers forgot we were wearing red shirts tonight.


----------



## fundy (Sep 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			We havenâ€™t deserved to lose the game , prob not deserved to win it and we were havenâ€™t finished well or created well but the ref has ruined this game , early overreacting from Mane but the players have been kicked all game with the ref giving nothing against the home team - VAR is supposed to stop all this 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1174062611882815490
How thatâ€™s not overturned Iâ€™ll never know - itâ€™s embarrassing
		
Click to expand...


gave nothing either way until the penalty, not sure how you got kicked off the park when you committed more than twice as many fouls as Napoli did, certainly wasnt one way traffic on that front. As for Manes acting career maybe should stick to football!


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2019)

A weird game were the result isnt a true reflection of the game.

Forza VAR .....


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Got what we deserved there you canâ€™t miss that many chances against a good side.
		
Click to expand...

We never deserved to lose 2-0, yes we should've taken our chances but didnt deserve to lose.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			We never deserved to lose 2-0, yes we should've taken our chances but didnt deserve to lose.
		
Click to expand...

We got beat on a technicality they scored two goals we missed all ours.
But the one thing you should not do in a game like this is lose but we gave them two goals.

You canâ€™t do that against teams like this .
Itâ€™s harsh yes but we didnâ€™t get simple passes away.
The build up to the second goal ,were one down just watch what Salah does to give the ball away .
You just canâ€™t do that at this level.

To be honest only for Adrian it could have been worse.
Plus their keeper made some good ones.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			We got beat on a technicality they scored two goals we missed all ours.
But the one thing you should not do in a game like this is lose but we gave them two goals.

You canâ€™t do that against teams like this .
Itâ€™s harsh yes but we didnâ€™t get simple passes away.
The build up to the second goal ,were one down just watch what Salah does to give the ball away .
You just canâ€™t do that at this level.

To be honest only for Adrian it could have been worse.
Plus their keeper made some good ones.
		
Click to expand...

You're missing the point. I disagree with you as you said " we got what we deserved".

On the balance of play it was an even game. Yes they took their 2 chances but overall we never "deserved" to lose.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			We never deserved to lose 2-0, yes we should've taken our chances but didnt deserve to lose.
		
Click to expand...

One of the first big Champs league games I went to, City v Juve. We battered them, well in a sense where we could  of won 15-2. We never converted one chance. We were 2-0 down and got an og to lose 2-1. My lad wondered what the hell had gone off. We still do it, loads of chances and don't convert. Did it v Spurs and Norwich. Look what happened there. You need to take your chances, More so playing the top teams.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			You're missing the point. I disagree with you as you said " we got what we deserved".

On the balance of play it was an even game. Yes they took their 2 chances but overall we never "deserved" to lose.
		
Click to expand...

I know what you mean 

We gave them two goals when we were on top and they had more or less settled for the draw.
We should never have lost that game .
Thatâ€™s why I think we got what we deserved for not seeing the game out. A draw was a fair result yes but no one told the ref.
VAR jeez.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 17, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			One of the first big Champs league games I went to, City v Juve. We battered them, well in a sense where we could  of won 15-2. We never converted one chance. We were 2-0 down and got an og to lose 2-1. My lad wondered what the hell had gone off. We still do it, loads of chances and don't convert. Did it v Spurs and Norwich. Look what happened there. You need to take your chances, More so playing the top teams.
		
Click to expand...

Yes but we havnt got Aguero.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 17, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			One of the first big Champs league games I went to, City v Juve. We battered them, well in a sense where we could  of won 15-2. We never converted one chance. We were 2-0 down and got an og to lose 2-1. My lad wondered what the hell had gone off. We still do it, loads of chances and don't convert. Did it v Spurs and Norwich. Look what happened there. *You need to take your chances,* More so playing the top teams.
		
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more, that doesn't mean we deserve to lose.

It's a tight game, played well though our final ball was a bit rushed  and created chances but never took them. 

Deserving to be beaten is when you put a poor performance up and create nothing.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 17, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			Can someone explain, giving a penalty when it's not a penalty is not a clear and obvious error.
		
Click to expand...

Just seen the Saltsberg game and the ref gave a red card .
Var said your wrong so he changed it to a yellow after having a look on the monitor.
So a clear and obvious error because he was wrong.

I just donâ€™t understand why the ref could not go and look for himself in the Liverpool game.
VAR is a mess imo.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 17, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but we havnt got Aguero.
		
Click to expand...

Trust me, with the chances we create, he misses his fair share.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 17, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Trust me, with the chances we create, he misses his fair share.
		
Click to expand...

Still have him though.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 18, 2019)

Sat through the Liverpool game and it was uncharacteristic in how wasteful they were in possession and how few clear cut chances they really seemed to create. To be honest, taking VAR out of the equation I've seen those penalties given (especially to home sides) in the CL over the years and not sure VAR would have called it a clear and obvious mistake and reversed the decision. Mane needs to get out the habit of falling to the ground all the time (one of which was embarrassing and he'd have got roasted on here had it been another team). Didn't think Liverpool did enough to win the game and at 0-0 always susceptible. I think they'll win the rest of the games home and away to qualify


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 18, 2019)

Erling Haland (son of Alf-Inge) is going to be a star. Hat-trick last night in the CL, 12 goals in 9 this season for RB Salzburg, scored 9 in 1 game for Norway U20s, he's a proper goal scorer. Only a matter of time until a team from a big European league comes in for him. Was managed by OGS at Molde who rated him very highly and said they rejected a number of bids for him before he joined RB Salzburg. A big CL campaign for him will really drive up his price. Also, he becomes unreal in Football Manager, so basically a given that he's going to be a superstar


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 18, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Erling Haland (son of Alf-Inge) is going to be a star. Hat-trick last night in the CL, 12 goals in 9 this season for RB Salzburg, scored 9 in 1 game for Norway U20s, he's a proper goal scorer. Only a matter of time until a team from a big European league comes in for him. Was managed by OGS at Molde who rated him very highly and said they rejected a number of bids for him before he joined RB Salzburg. A big CL campaign for him will really drive up his price. Also, he becomes unreal in Football Manager, so basically a given that he's going to be a superstar 

Click to expand...

Heard his goal tally on BT Sport last night. Unreal although has to be tempered by the standard of the league he's playing in. Definitely going to get snapped up and developed by a big club soon though


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 18, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Erling Haland (son of Alf-Inge) is going to be a star. Hat-trick last night in the CL, 12 goals in 9 this season for RB Salzburg, scored 9 in 1 game for Norway U20s, he's a proper goal scorer. Only a matter of time until a team from a big European league comes in for him. Was managed by OGS at Molde who rated him very highly and said they rejected a number of bids for him before he joined RB Salzburg. A big CL campaign for him will really drive up his price. Also, he becomes unreal in Football Manager, so basically a given that he's going to be a superstar 

Click to expand...

Heard rumours he'll be at Old Trafford by the end of January.


----------



## pokerjoke (Sep 18, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sat through the Liverpool game and it was uncharacteristic in how wasteful they were in possession and how few clear cut chances they really seemed to create. To be honest, taking VAR out of the equation I've seen those penalties given (especially to home sides) in the CL over the years and not sure VAR would have called it a clear and obvious mistake and reversed the decision. Mane needs to get out the habit of falling to the ground all the time (one of which was embarrassing and he'd have got roasted on here had it been another team). Didn't think Liverpool did enough to win the game and at 0-0 always susceptible. I think they'll win the rest of the games home and away to qualify
		
Click to expand...

I watched the same game and they created plenty of chances,certainly enough to get something out the game.
Never a penalty


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 18, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			I watched the same game and they created plenty of chances,certainly enough to get something out the game.
Never a penalty
		
Click to expand...

As I said, seen them given in CL games, usually to the home side. VAR should have reversed the decision. Created 13 shots in the match but only 4 on target so wouldn't say they created plenty of did enough to test the keeper. A 0-0 draw would have been a fait result but after the penalty (VAR or not) always hard to get back into it so short of time


----------



## Dando (Sep 18, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Heard rumours he'll be at Old Trafford by the end of January.
		
Click to expand...

someone else they can ruin


----------



## pokerjoke (Sep 18, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			As I said, seen them given in CL games, usually to the home side. VAR should have reversed the decision. Created 13 shots in the match but only 4 on target so wouldn't say they created plenty of did enough to test the keeper. A 0-0 draw would have been a fait result but after the penalty (VAR or not) always hard to get back into it so short of time
		
Click to expand...

Firmino missed a golden chance,wonâ€™t be counted as on target so stats can lie.

In the Chelsea game also never a pen but the new law says it is, he had no chance to move his arm.
Also disgraceful the way some players were with Barkley over the penalty.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 18, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			Firmino missed a golden chance,wonâ€™t be counted as on target so stats can lie.

In the Chelsea game also never a pen but the new law says it is, he had no chance to move his arm.
Also disgraceful the way some players were with Barkley over the penalty.
		
Click to expand...

Years ago a Liverpool team that was 0-0 with 10 mins to go would just shut the game down.
We were in total control second half.
We did miss chances but it was the passing that was poor.

We gifted them two goals in a game that should have been a draw.
You just canâ€™t do that at that level.

But the ref was poor.
In the Saltberg game the ref gave a red but VAR changed his mind.
Thought the ref should have at least gone and had a look at the monitor.
It was clear and obvious a dive.imo.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 18, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			Firmino missed a golden chance,wonâ€™t be counted as on target so stats can lie.

In the Chelsea game also never a pen but the new law says it is, he had no chance to move his arm.
Also disgraceful the way some players were with Barkley over the penalty.
		
Click to expand...

Well in the Chelsea game the ref did look at the monitor and still got it wrong imo.
But at least he looked. Never a pen for me.

Thatâ€™s a discipline thing why are three other players down his ear just before he takes it .
But have seen this lots lately, even Lampard said â€œ Ross is the penalty takerâ€
Think the other three might be in the office today!


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 18, 2019)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49738617

Big up respect on how Liverpool have dealt with this.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 18, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49738617

Big up respect on how Liverpool have dealt with this.
		
Click to expand...

Nice one Tash.

I just wonder sometimes why people do this to total strangers just because they wear a different shirt/ team.
It just beggars belief.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 18, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49738617

Big up respect on how Liverpool have dealt with this.
		
Click to expand...

It's a very human response, a classy touch. In a age of big money and detachment from supporters it is good to see a club looking out for their fans over and above.

As to why? We don't have enough 'shakes head' emojis. My cousin follows Liverpool across Europe but I don't think he does Italy any more. He has said in the past it is the most dangerous place to go to, Rome being the worst within Italy. It is sad, just so sad that people think this is acceptable to do.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 18, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's a very human response, a classy touch. In a age of big money and detachment from supporters it is good to see a club looking out for their fans over and above.

As to why? We don't have enough 'shakes head' emojis. My cousin follows Liverpool across Europe but I don't think he does Italy any more. He has said in the past it is the most dangerous place to go to, Rome being the worst within Italy. It is sad, just so sad that people think this is acceptable to do.
		
Click to expand...

I don't just think it's the hooligan element that spoils Italian football. The recent events with racism/ Lukaku etc etc. There is something fundamentally wrong with Italian football at the moment


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 18, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's a very human response, a classy touch. In a age of big money and detachment from supporters it is good to see a club looking out for their fans over and above.

As to why? We don't have enough 'shakes head' emojis. My cousin follows Liverpool across Europe but I don't think he does Italy any more. He has said in the past it is the most dangerous place to go to, Rome being the worst within Italy. It is sad, just so sad that people think this is acceptable to do.
		
Click to expand...

I only listened on radio as at work. They said only about a third of Liverpool fans actually went. The rest bought tickets to help their points for later stages.

I've two issues with this. One being that if fans are that worried to go to a game then the governing bodies need to do something. 

Two, and whilst I'm sure it happens at all big clubs. Surely those fans that make the effort to attend should still have some sort of extra credit. After all the ticket cost is almost insignificant in comparison to other costs. And shows a more significant loyalty as such.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Sep 18, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Years ago a Liverpool team that was 0-0 with 10 mins to go would just shut the game down.
We were in total control second half.
We did miss chances but it was the passing that was poor.

We gifted them two goals in a game that should have been a draw.
You just canâ€™t do that at that level.

But the ref was poor.
In the Saltberg game the ref gave a red but VAR changed his mind.
Thought the ref should have at least gone and had a look at the monitor.
It was clear and obvious a dive.imo.
		
Click to expand...

Are you talking European cup years or Champions league though- different dynamic in a mini-league compared to a 2 legged tie. 

I agree that we shouldnt have lost that game but for 10 minutes before they scored their first, we were on top and they were all over the place, so could understand why we were pushing on, as 3 points there would have been a great start.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 18, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I only listened on radio as at work. They said only about a third of Liverpool fans actually went. The rest bought tickets to help their points for later stages.

I've two issues with this. One being that if fans are that worried to go to a game then the governing bodies need to do something.

Two, and whilst I'm sure it happens at all big clubs. Surely those fans that make the effort to attend should still have some sort of extra credit. After all the ticket cost is almost insignificant in comparison to other costs. And shows a more significant loyalty as such.
		
Click to expand...

I think it shows a fault in the individual clubs system of ticket allocation. A number do it, it is not just Liverpool, but it forces fans to buy tickets whether they want them or not. I remember Utd were one of the first, forcing season ticket holders to buy tickets for league cup matches when for many they were impractical to attend. With the costs involved I don't blame any for not going. It must be financially crippling to follow a whole campaign home and away.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Sep 18, 2019)

People are willing to buy a ticket but not go, as will get them an extra credit and may mean them getting a final ticket.

Not right, as sometimes there may be others who want to go, and will miss out, but slightly understandable. We had it with an eastern european away game a few years ago - sold 2,000 tickets, but only about 400 there, as others just paid the Â£6 for the ticket, so they got a credit.


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 18, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think it shows a fault in the individual clubs system of ticket allocation. A number do it, it is not just Liverpool, but it forces fans to buy tickets whether they want them or not. I remember Utd were one of the first, forcing season ticket holders to buy tickets for league cup matches when for many they were impractical to attend. With the costs involved I don't blame any for not going. It must be financially crippling to follow a whole campaign home and away.
		
Click to expand...

Tbf I fully understand why they do it. Short of just doing a lottery they need a divider. 

I just think the that actually go should get extra credit.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 18, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Are you talking European cup years or Champions league though- different dynamic in a mini-league compared to a 2 legged tie.

I agree that we shouldnt have lost that game but for 10 minutes before they scored their first, we were on top and they were all over the place, so could understand why we were pushing on, as 3 points there would have been a great start.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I deffo heard the commentator say Liverpool were the more likely to score just before Robbo dangled a leg.

They had more or less run out of ideas.
The ref gifted them the first and I just donâ€™t understand VAR not at least asking him to look at the monitor.
From the other angle he was already going down.
The ref on BT sport confused me even more with his explanation!
Clear and obvious what does that mean ?
It left us chasing the game then for a game we should have won really.

But 0-0 away is a good result they should have just put two banks of four and settled for that.
Maybe 0-0 in a league is not brilliant but itâ€™s better than 2-0.
We could have played all night and not scored it was one of those games but to lose??
For the European Champions I just think we were a little naive.


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 18, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I deffo heard the commentator say Liverpool were the more likely to score just before Robbo dangled a leg.

They had more or less run out of ideas.
The ref gifted them the first and I just donâ€™t understand VAR not at least asking him to look at the monitor.
From the other angle he was already going down.
The ref on BT sport confused me even more with his explanation!
Clear and obvious what does that mean ?
It left us chasing the game then for a game we should have won really.

But 0-0 away is a good result they should have just put two banks of four and settled for that.
Maybe 0-0 in a league is not brilliant but itâ€™s better than 2-0.
*For the European Champions I just think we were a little naive*.
		
Click to expand...

Your CL campaign last year was hardly one based on fantastic defending. In the league you improved massively. But you conceded against almost every opponent you faced either home or away last year I believe. Spurs maybe the only team who failed to score against you. 

You were unlucky yesterday, those results happen. Abandoning your attacking style because of one result is knee jerk, 9/10 you draw or win that game. Playing defensively you rarely win and encourage opponents to try for a win.


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 18, 2019)

Nice work Liverpool fans. Abuse your own player so much for giving away a penalty that he feels he has to delete his own Twitter account. A player who has been consistently excellent and made 1 mistake. Social media can be the worst at times, especially Football Twitter, so toxic.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 18, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Your CL campaign last year was hardly one based on fantastic defending. In the league you improved massively. But you conceded against almost every opponent you faced either home or away last year I believe. Spurs maybe the only team who failed to score against you.

You were unlucky yesterday, those results happen. Abandoning your attacking style because of one result is knee jerk, 9/10 you draw or win that game. Playing defensively you rarely win and encourage opponents to try for a win.
		
Click to expand...

What I was trying to get across was we havnt learned anything from last year.
0-0 last night would have been a good result against the main rival.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 18, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Nice work Liverpool fans. Abuse your own player so much for giving away a penalty that he feels he has to delete his own Twitter account. A player who has been consistently excellent and made 1 mistake. Social media can be the worst at times, especially Football Twitter, so toxic.
		
Click to expand...

I donâ€™t do twitter. Full of morons.
It was a dive , he dangled a leg yes .
But the refs to blame for me.
VAR ????


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 18, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			What I was trying to get across was we havnt learned anything from last year.
0-0 last night would have been a good result against the main rival.
		
Click to expand...

I agree it wouldnâ€™t have been bad if offered at the start, but as you acknowledged earlier. You were in the ascendency, playing for 0-0 wasnâ€™t the right play. Losing doesnâ€™t change that.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Sep 18, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I donâ€™t do twitter. Full of morons.
It was a dive , he dangled a leg yes .
But the refs to blame for me.
VAR ????
		
Click to expand...

If players werenâ€™t constantly trying to con the ref itâ€™d make his job a lot easier. 
Seen Salah & Mane do worse tbh.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 18, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree it wouldnâ€™t have been bad if offered at the start, but as you acknowledged earlier. You were in the ascendency, playing for 0-0 wasnâ€™t the right play. Losing doesnâ€™t change that.
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s debatable we were on top but Wanaldum was playing like a Centre Forward sometimes.
We needed to keep our shape ,draw them on to us ,we had more joy on the counter but the passing was abysmal.
But first thing is donâ€™t concede anything.
But history now ,letâ€™s just hope we learn something from it!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 18, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			If players werenâ€™t constantly trying to con the ref itâ€™d make his job a lot easier.
Seen Salah & Mane do worse tbh.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree with you .
But I thought VAR was there to stop it.
All he had to do was look at the tech provided to help him.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 18, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



*Nice work Liverpool fans. *Abuse your own player so much for giving away a penalty that he feels he has to delete his own Twitter account. A player who has been consistently excellent and made 1 mistake. Social media can be the worst at times, especially Football Twitter, so toxic.
		
Click to expand...


Donâ€™t lump all Liverpool fans together based on a minority of twitter keyboard warriors , that social media for you especially twitter - it has allowed social vacuums to become relevant and believe they can say whatever they feel. Donâ€™t blame any player for removing themselves. 

Just go to any Liverpool forum to see what people say about Robbo and indeed last night


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 18, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Donâ€™t lump all Liverpool fans together based on a minority of twitter keyboard warriors , that social media for you especially twitter - it has allowed social vacuums to become relevant and believe they can say whatever they feel. Donâ€™t blame any player for removing themselves.

*Just go to any Liverpool forum to see what people say about Robbo* and indeed last night
		
Click to expand...

I don't need to, I also didn't lump anyone together, I didn't say "Nice work all Liverpool fans". You don't need to go all defensive, fact is, a number of Liverpool fans posted dreadful stuff on Twitter last night aimed at Robertson, and as a result he's deleted his account. Chelsea fans are no better. Barkley is Chelsea's designated penalty taker, he has taken some excellent penalties in recent memory and yet copped a ludicrous amount of abuse on Twitter last night. It's unfortunately become a platform that enables, as you say, keyboard warriors to gang together and say the most horrendous things to players that play for the club they supposedly support when they do the slightest thing wrong. It's awful.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 18, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			I don't need to, I also didn't lump anyone together, I didn't say "Nice work all Liverpool fans". You don't need to go all defensive, fact is, a number of Liverpool fans posted dreadful stuff on Twitter last night aimed at Robertson, and as a result he's deleted his account. Chelsea fans are no better. Barkley is Chelsea's designated penalty taker, he has taken some excellent penalties in recent memory and yet copped a ludicrous amount of abuse on Twitter last night. It's unfortunately become a platform that enables, as you say, keyboard warriors to gang together and say the most horrendous things to players that play for the club they supposedly support when they do the slightest thing wrong. It's awful.
		
Click to expand...

I really canâ€™t see what anybody remotely famous gets from being on Twitter.
Can understand if your promoting your songs concerts etc but anything else.
The bile must out weigh the bonus eventually.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 18, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			I don't need to, I also didn't lump anyone together, I didn't say "Nice work all Liverpool fans". You don't need to go all defensive, fact is, a number of Liverpool fans posted dreadful stuff on Twitter last night aimed at Robertson, and as a result he's deleted his account. Chelsea fans are no better. Barkley is Chelsea's designated penalty taker, he has taken some excellent penalties in recent memory and yet copped a ludicrous amount of abuse on Twitter last night. It's unfortunately become a platform that enables, as you say, keyboard warriors to gang together and say the most horrendous things to players that play for the club they supposedly support when they do the slightest thing wrong. It's awful.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....bertson-twitter-liverpool-napoli-16937320.amp

Do we actually know what was said to Robbo ? Lots of speculation and donâ€™t see what was actually said to him ?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 18, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....bertson-twitter-liverpool-napoli-16937320.amp

Do we actually know what was said to Robbo ? Lots of speculation and donâ€™t see what was actually said to him ?
		
Click to expand...

No proper fan would blame Robbo for that.
He dangled a leg but thatâ€™s a dive all day.
VAR is a disgrace ,I was all for it but itâ€™s run by buffoons.

And as you say nothing has been disclosed.


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 18, 2019)

The Daily Mail have a couple of examples in their article about it, and I saw a few last night while the game was on that were pretty harsh to say the least. Twitter have got better at hiding certain content after a while so can be quite difficult to find any examples, but they were there.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 18, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			The Daily Mail have a couple of examples in their article about it, and I saw a few last night while the game was on that were pretty harsh to say the least. Twitter have got better at hiding certain content after a while so can be quite difficult to find any examples, but they were there.
		
Click to expand...

Daily Mail ? 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....s-Twitter-account-fans-criticise-display.html

I was using twitter to get updates and didnâ€™t see Abuse but I guess there will be idiots on place like Talksport but you only to read all the main places to see the support for him - Iâ€™m not surprised to see the headlines from the expected sources.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Sep 18, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Nice work Liverpool fans. Abuse your own player so much for giving away a penalty that he feels he has to delete his own Twitter account. A player who has been consistently excellent and made 1 mistake. Social media can be the worst at times, especially Football Twitter, so toxic.
		
Click to expand...

Dont lump in match going, normal fans in with the twitterati knobs, different set of "fans" totally.


----------



## fundy (Sep 18, 2019)

Good to see Emery resting Ozil for tomorrow night after he has had such a tough start to the season, he was on the pitch for almost 70 mins at the weekend. Seems Sokratis has earnt a rest too by having an utter shocker at the weekend, and the weekend before etc etc. Im sure they used to call it being dropped!!!!! Just not sure why Xhaka hasnt been rewarded too


----------



## fundy (Sep 19, 2019)

For all non Arsenal fans, its the dream pairing youve all been waiting for. Thats right Mustafi and Luiz together at centre half tonight! Me, Im off to the pub at the quay for a beer!!!!!


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 19, 2019)

Scary line up. And why play Auba, it could all end very badly.

More to the point, how did Torreira miss that? It would have been easier to score.


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 19, 2019)

Chance after chance goes by. Can none of them finish?


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 19, 2019)

Chance after chance goes by. Can none of them finish?


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 19, 2019)

Odd finish, but it will do.


----------



## fundy (Sep 19, 2019)

Well thats some result. I guess we gloss over conceding 24 shots again (after 31 at the weekend and 111 in 5 games!). Going to continue relying on scoring lots of goals and you just cant let the big teams have that many chances. Good to see Sako getting (and taking) a decent opportunity, Martinez having a blinder and generally the youngsters doing well. 

Still not convinced Emery has a clue whats actually needed defensively (starting with the midfield) though sadly (if he needs a reference point Koulibalys performance the other night against Liverpool be a decent start point)


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 19, 2019)

Saka was brilliant tonight. I have really enjoyed watching him pre season, and he is just such a talent.

Emery. Hmm. I would bin him off right now and go all in for Nagelsman.


----------



## fundy (Sep 20, 2019)

whats the point of VAR if thats not a pen?


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 20, 2019)

fundy said:



			whats the point of VAR if thats not a pen?
		
Click to expand...

To keep us in with a chance ðŸ˜‰

Not sure any twma has any more help than us with it lol


----------



## fundy (Sep 21, 2019)

2-0 up and you lost 2-1


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 21, 2019)

VAR ruining the game.


----------



## Fish (Sep 21, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			VAR ruining the game.
		
Click to expand...

Whats occurred


----------



## pokerjoke (Sep 21, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			VAR ruining the game.
		
Click to expand...

Yes,along with diving cheating and feigning injury.
Commentary were saying he was a millimetre offside,ridiculous


----------



## Slime (Sep 21, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			Yes,along with diving cheating and feigning injury.
*Commentary were saying he was a millimetre offside,ridiculous*

Click to expand...

So he was offside, then.


----------



## Fish (Sep 21, 2019)

Slime said:



			So he was offside, then.
		
Click to expand...

Who's _he_


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			VAR ruining the game.
		
Click to expand...

Yep - itâ€™s supposed to stop poor and incorrect decisions yet it seems to be adding to them


----------



## pokerjoke (Sep 21, 2019)

Slime said:



			So he was offside, then.
		
Click to expand...

It was given as offside so I suppose it is.
I certainly agree with Stu itâ€™s ruining the game.


----------



## Fish (Sep 21, 2019)

Am I invisible today


----------



## fundy (Sep 21, 2019)

Good to see City struggling against Watford like Arsenal did


----------



## pokerjoke (Sep 21, 2019)

Fish said:



			Am I invisible today 

Click to expand...

Spurs scored a 2nd goal before Leicester scored but it was disallowed due to being offside by a mm


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 21, 2019)

I repeat my prediction of last week when everyone got excited when watford put 2 in against a poor arsenal back line

Watford are going down


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 21, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			I repeat my prediction of last week when everyone got excited when watford put 2 in against a poor arsenal back line

Watford are going down
		
Click to expand...

I hope so, that's one lest spot for Saints to fill


----------



## pokerjoke (Sep 21, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			I repeat my prediction of last week when everyone got excited when watford put 2 in against a poor arsenal back line

Watford are going down
		
Click to expand...

Need another manager,and quick


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 21, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I hope so, that's one lest spot for Saints to fill
		
Click to expand...

Oh dw so are you guys ðŸ¤£


----------



## Fish (Sep 21, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			Spurs scored a 2nd goal before Leicester scored but it was disallowed due to being offside by a mm
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s ok though, itâ€™s only Spurs ðŸ˜œ


----------



## fundy (Sep 21, 2019)

Marco Silva cant have long left can he?


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 21, 2019)

fundy said:



			Marco Silva cant have long left can he?
		
Click to expand...

He needs to stay


----------



## IainP (Sep 21, 2019)

By special fan logic, Burnley are better than Man City aren't they?    ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 21, 2019)

Fish said:



			Am I invisible today 

Click to expand...

Who said that?


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 21, 2019)

Send Silva back to Watford plz. Dreadful. Could have gone 3rd with a win over Bournemouth, and weâ€™re now  dropping down to 14th. His time is surely running out.


----------



## Piece (Sep 21, 2019)

"Watford in eight goal thriller"
ðŸ¤£


----------



## Piece (Sep 21, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Send Silva back to Watford plz. Dreadful. Could have gone 3rd with a win over Bournemouth, and weâ€™re now  dropping down to 14th. His time is surely running out.
		
Click to expand...

No no, even after today, he's all yours!


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 21, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Send Silva back to Watford plz. Dreadful. Could have gone 3rd with a win over Bournemouth, and weâ€™re now  dropping down to 14th. His time is surely running out.
		
Click to expand...

But he plays nice football.....


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 21, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			But he plays nice football.....
		
Click to expand...

This season weâ€™ve not even done that. Bought more attackers, but gone backwards offensively and then the defence has fallen to bits. Rubbish!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Send Silva back to Watford plz. Dreadful. Could have gone 3rd with a win over Bournemouth, and weâ€™re now  dropping down to 14th. His time is surely running out.
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ calling for his head already ? Surely not ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## pokerjoke (Sep 21, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Send Silva back to Watford plz. Dreadful. Could have gone 3rd with a win over Bournemouth, and weâ€™re now  dropping down to 14th. His time is surely running out.
		
Click to expand...

Tonight?


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 21, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ calling for his head already ? Surely not ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

I'm excitedly waiting for the radio merseyside phone in, the blooooooooos love a good moan on there ðŸ¤­ðŸ¤­


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 21, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			This season weâ€™ve not even done that. Bought more attackers, but gone backwards offensively and then the defence has fallen to bits. Rubbish!
		
Click to expand...

He is trying to fit the new guys in but the blend isn't working. It all shows how much we are missing Gueye in particular but also Zouma. Gueye held us together so well, broke up so much.


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 21, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ calling for his head already ? Surely not ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Would you be happy if your manager had spent as much as Silva has and then seen the performances we have so far this season? 

As @Lord Tyrion says, weâ€™re dearly missing Zouma and Idrissa and the system Silva has utilised so far has not worked. We were dreadful against Palace, nearly lost to Lincoln, lost to Villa, lost to Bournemouth and now at home to Sheffield United, itâ€™s not a good start and needs to be turned around quickly. We need to improve on last season after spending as much as we have and on the evidence so far thatâ€™s looking incredibly unlikely.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Would you be happy if your manager had spent as much as Silva has and then seen the performances we have so far this season? 

As @Lord Tyrion says, weâ€™re dearly missing Zouma and Idrissa and the system Silva has utilised so far has not worked. We were dreadful against Palace, nearly lost to Lincoln, lost to Villa, lost to Bournemouth and now at home to Sheffield United, itâ€™s not a good start and needs to be turned around quickly. We need to improve on last season after spending as much as we have and on the evidence so far thatâ€™s looking incredibly unlikely.
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™m just surprised it took until now - but Iâ€™m not surprised that Everton fans calling for their managers head - so who next to join the ever increasing managers who get a season


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 21, 2019)

Another first for Everton to add to their list of firsts....

First team to lose 2-0 at home to a promoted side after conceding only 1 shot on target.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1175392414963503104
ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 21, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Iâ€™m just surprised it took until now - but Iâ€™m not surprised that Everton fans calling for their managers head - so who next to join the ever increasing managers who get a season
		
Click to expand...

Hodgson.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Hodgson.
		
Click to expand...

 Perfect match ðŸ‘ I believe Pulis is available or maybe Fat Sam - believe he got his last club up to their expected position


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 21, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He is trying to fit the new guys in but the blend isn't working. It all shows how much we are missing Gueye in particular but also Zouma. Gueye held us together so well, broke up so much.
		
Click to expand...

Think Fulham showed last year the danger of throwing new guys in the mix and a team not gelling. I can't see Everton ever being in relegation trouble but surely they need to be pushing for Europa league every year and have extended cup runs


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 21, 2019)

ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1175471590437470209


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 21, 2019)

Flippin Eck what a day. In all honesty am not sure whether City were brilliant or Watford were dire. In fact if I was a Watford fan I would be livid with that display. It just never showed any fight. Am not really sure what there actual system was. I mentioned to the guy at the side of me " it looked like they were not playing for there manager". He said he has not been there that long.
Back to City. KDB was immense. His last goal, flippin Eck. 8-0 without Sterling playing, he needs to pull his socks up ðŸ˜ Most pleasing bits were seeing Mahrez have an excellent game again, Cancello looks very tasty. Said this before that City would tank someone if they could hit the target. Hit the woodwork 3 times as well.
Happy bunny today.


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 21, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Flippin Eck what a day. In all honesty am not sure whether City were brilliant or Watford were dire. In fact if I was a Watford fan I would be livid with that display. It just never showed any fight. Am not really sure what there actual system was. I mentioned to the guy at the side of me " it looked like they were not playing for there manager". He said he has not been there that long.
Back to City. KDB was immense. His last goal, flippin Eck. 8-0 without Sterling playing, he needs to pull his socks up ðŸ˜ Most pleasing bits were seeing Mahrez have an excellent game again, Cancello looks very tasty. Said this before that City would tank someone if they could hit the target. Hit the woodwork 3 times as well.
Happy bunny today.
		
Click to expand...

Thought you were embarrassing! I mean only 8 after being 4-0 up in 15 mins??? Could have broken the record goals scored in a first half and in 90 mins

Poor ðŸ¤£


----------



## Norrin Radd (Sep 21, 2019)

Well it's not often that a team playing at home against Brighton park the bus ,way over seventy percent possession away from home tells me that  the bar codes are in for a loong season .how the hell they beat spurs is beyond me


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 21, 2019)

Norrin Radd said:



			Well it's not often that a team playing at home against Brighton park the bus ,way over seventy percent possession away from home tells me that  the bar codes are in for a loong season .how the hell they beat spurs is beyond me
		
Click to expand...

Watford and Newcastle both got tough seasons ahead

Wolves will kick out the zone soon

Southampton might finally run out of puff. Unless villa do a Fulham and spend so much for so little


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 21, 2019)

Norrin Radd said:



			Well it's not often that a team playing at home against Brighton park the bus ,way over seventy percent possession away from home tells me that  the bar codes are in for a loong season .how the hell they beat spurs is beyond me
		
Click to expand...

Because Spurs are a bit sh..?


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 21, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Watford and Newcastle both got tough seasons ahead

Wolves will kick out the zone soon

Southampton might finally run out of puff. Unless villa do a Fulham and spend so much for so little
		
Click to expand...

I really reckon we will be fine. 

Our play this season has actually been alright bar finishing. 

I reckon 12th.which I'll be happy with.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2019)

Watford will be fine - there are still three or four teams worse than them 

Brighton 
Sheff Utd 
Newcastle 
Norwich 

Three from those four will imo go down


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 21, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Watford will be fine - there are still three or four teams worse than them

Brighton
Sheff Utd
Newcastle
Norwich

Three from those four will imo go down
		
Click to expand...

Norwich have a goal scorer

Sheffield united have grit 

Brighton will be in the mix but looking better than Watford by a mile

Watford need deeney back badly


----------



## Swingalot (Sep 21, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Hodgson.
		
Click to expand...

South Londonâ€™s Don?

He has been awarded the â€˜freedom of Croydonâ€™ donâ€™t you know. 

Not sure what exactly that means, just assumed it was a free meal at the Morleys chicken shop on Thornton Heath High street. 

Leave our Roy alone


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 21, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Norwich have a goal scorer

Sheffield united have grit 

Brighton will be in the mix but looking better than Watford by a mile

Watford need deeney back badly
		
Click to expand...

Pukki has 6 in 6 and they're still 16th.

I like him, but he's not gonna bang in 40 goals. 

Imo they'll be no higher than 16th. He tales off and they're gone.


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 21, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Pukki has 6 in 6 and they're still 16th.

I like him, but he's not gonna bang in 40 goals.

Imo they'll be no higher than 16th. He tales off and they're gone.
		
Click to expand...

Doesnt need 40 goals tho

How many teams even get 15 goals from their top scorer outside the top 6?

We have struggled for years for a goal scorer to break 10! Nolan and Cole did , arnie did it 2 seasons in a row with an amazing 11 and 10 lol 

Least the season will be interesting again

Top 2 ofc will be same but may be a diff order

3rd and 4th up for grabs because spurs look awful


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 21, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Doesnt need 40 goals tho

How many teams even get 15 goals from their top scorer outside the top 6?

We have struggled for years for a goal scorer to break 10! Nolan and Cole did , arnie did it 2 seasons in a row with an amazing 11 and 10 lol 

Least the season will be interesting again

Top 2 ofc will be same but may be a diff order

3rd and 4th up for grabs because spurs look awful
		
Click to expand...

I simply meant that after a goal a game they were still 16th.so if his dry up then they'll go backwards.


----------



## Robin Hood (Sep 21, 2019)

Toon Army.........
What are you doing - It was almost embarrassing 
And a poor crowd of only just over 40,000.

Add to that Nottingham losing in the T20

A bad bad day in Sherwood Forest ðŸ˜©ðŸ¹
Pass me another ale Maid Marion ðŸºðŸº


----------



## Jensen (Sep 21, 2019)

Norrin Radd said:



			Well it's not often that a team playing at home against Brighton park the bus ,way over seventy percent possession away from home tells me that  the bar codes are in for a loong season .how the hell they beat spurs is beyond me
		
Click to expand...

Because Tottenham didn't turn up â˜¹ï¸


----------



## Jensen (Sep 21, 2019)

Eriksen left out again, his contract ends this season, sell him in January and at least get some cash


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 21, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Eriksen left out again, his contract ends this season, sell him in January and at least get some cash
		
Click to expand...

Friend of mine is a spurs fan, he feels something behind the scenes isn't right

Trippier said similar when he was sold that something was brewing and he didnt like it

Is poch losing the dressing room?


----------



## Jensen (Sep 21, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Friend of mine is a spurs fan, he feels something behind the scenes isn't right

Trippier said similar when he was sold that something was brewing and he didnt like it

Is poch losing the dressing room?
		
Click to expand...

What doesn't help is having 3 key players in the last year of their contracts, Eriksen, Alderwerald and Veronghen. 
Most Levy unlike


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 21, 2019)

Jensen said:



			What doesn't help is having 3 key players in the last year of their contracts, Eriksen, Alderwerald and Veronghen.
Most Levy unlike
		
Click to expand...

Something to do with the wages In football going up but the wage cap at spurs remaining pretty level?


----------



## Fish (Sep 22, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Something to do with the wages In football going up but the wage cap at spurs remaining pretty level?
		
Click to expand...

Maybe if they challenged more and won things that would change, nah, maybe not ðŸ¤” 

Itâ€™s ok Levy being known for being a shrewd businessman, but heâ€™s going to get bit in the arris with contracts running out and an obvious situation between Eriksen and poch as heâ€™s too good a player to be left out imo, itâ€™s not tactical, so I think spurs need to get used to life without him or there needs to be a complete wage review across their best players, which I canâ€™t see happening. 

Iâ€™ve always said when 1 of those group of players (Kane, Ali, Son, Eriksen) that have been key for Spurs leaves, for a combination of money and the desire to win trophies, theyâ€™ll be a ripple effect. 

Levy with his new shiny stadium is about to be tested I think as players across the city and around the country who in some circumstances are not as good as those mentioned, are on at least twice as much as they are at Spurs. 

Certainly interesting times ahead for them, January will be key, and if thereâ€™s no new purchases, no new extended contracts with wage increases and players putting in transfer requests, then a change at the helm (Poch) might be on the cards ðŸ¤”


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 22, 2019)

Robin Hood said:



			Toon Army.........
What are you doing - It was almost embarrassing 
And a poor crowd of only just over 40,000.

Add to that Nottingham losing in the T20

A bad bad day in Sherwood Forest ðŸ˜©ðŸ¹
Pass me another ale Maid Marion ðŸºðŸº
		
Click to expand...

A journo up her once described Saturday for a toon game. Go to the toon, drink in the pubs, moan about what you are about to see. Go to the game, moan about what you are seeing. Leave the game,  go back to the pubs and moan about what you have seen. Actually watching the game is almost incidental ðŸ»ðŸ˜„. 

Perhaps fans are finally being tested too far. The team is poor, the play is very poor, the owner is despised, the managerial appointment totally uninspiring. The default over the years,  Pavlovian response, is to go what may. Maybe that is finally starting to end.


----------



## Robin Hood (Sep 22, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			A journo up her once described Saturday for a toon game. Go to the toon, drink in the pubs, moan about what you are about to see. Go to the game, moan about what you are seeing. Leave the game,  go back to the pubs and moan about what you have seen. Actually watching the game is almost incidental ðŸ»ðŸ˜„. 

Perhaps fans are finally being tested too far. The team is poor, the play is very poor, the owner is despised, the managerial appointment totally uninspiring. The default over the years,  Pavlovian response, is to go what may. Maybe that is finally starting to end.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on.
We don't look like a Premiership team, and probably won't be one at the end of the season. At least we can look forward to Derby matches against the Mackems again.
"Toon Toon, Black n White Army"


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 22, 2019)

Robin Hood said:



			Spot on.
We don't look like a Premiership team, and probably won't be one at the end of the season. At least we can look forward to Derby matches against the Mackems again.
"Toon Toon, Black n White Army"
		
Click to expand...

I suspect the Toon may well be in the championship next year. You may have to wait another year or so for that derby though ðŸ˜„, Sunderland have dropped that far ðŸ˜±.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 22, 2019)

Some decent games today, I cant believe I'm writing this but I think West Ham (3/1) win today against Yernited, any sensible opinions before I put the kids dinner money on it?


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 22, 2019)

Not looked at any odds yet. But my money will be on btts draw.

Not sure either are good enough to win.


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 22, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Some decent games today, I cant believe I'm writing this but I think West Ham (3/1) win today against Yernited, any sensible opinions before I put the kids dinner money on it?
		
Click to expand...

Defence wont be as solid as normal with cresswell taking the place of the suspended Arthur at lb 

However man United are I believe without pogba, martial and james 

3 big players


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 22, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Defence wont be as solid as normal with cresswell taking the place of the suspended Arthur at lb

However man United are I believe without pogba, martial and james

3 big players
		
Click to expand...

Some would argue they're stronger without Pogba......

Cresswell is still a top PL LB


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 22, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Some would argue they're stronger without Pogba......
		
Click to expand...

Lol very true. If james is out tho. He is a class act

I've seen haller to score 1 and us to win 2 1 at 50 to 1

Tempted but haller prob wont score lol prob get 2 assists lol


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 22, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Lol very true. If james is out tho. He is a class act

I've seen haller to score 1 and us to win 2 1 at 50 to 1

Tempted but haller prob wont score lol prob get 2 assists lol
		
Click to expand...

Lol


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 22, 2019)

Lovely attacking move

Glad I didnt take that bet

So far so good

Bring on the second half


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 22, 2019)

Blimey utd look average. If West Ham had more faith in themselves they would have this wrapped up.

3rd and 4th is sooooooooooooo open and up for grabs this season. Brendan Rodgers must be sat beaming at this.


----------



## fundy (Sep 22, 2019)

Noble trying hard to be sent off again


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 22, 2019)

fundy said:



			Noble trying hard to be sent off again
		
Click to expand...

Has never been able to tackle to be fair

Man utd look awful


----------



## fundy (Sep 22, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Some decent games today, I cant believe I'm writing this but I think West Ham (3/1) win today against Yernited, any sensible opinions before I put the kids dinner money on it?
		
Click to expand...

Too good Stu


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 22, 2019)

Just need villa to draw today to keep us as the best club in london at present


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 22, 2019)

Quality goal that. Boy can TAA strike a football, such a sweet hit, great technique.


----------



## fundy (Sep 22, 2019)

Villa score with their 4th shot on target inside 20 minutes. Good to know our defenders have been practising playing out from the back. Any chance they practise defending and the midfielders pressing? Nope didnt think so


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 22, 2019)

Double whammy as VAR cost Chelsea a goal and Liverpool go down the other end and score. Game over and a question of how many now for Liverpool


----------



## Jensen (Sep 22, 2019)

Abraham didn't look confident at that one on one chance at 1-0, he didn't get the ball out from under his feet or control the stride


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 22, 2019)

SilvaOut, OleOut and EmeryOut all been trending on Twitter this weekend. Good weekend for managers.

Getting better for Arsenal. Maitland-Niles sent off.


----------



## fundy (Sep 22, 2019)

1-0 down and now down to 10 men

Dick might be racing Silva and Ole in tomorrows sack race haha


----------



## Piece (Sep 22, 2019)

The coach of a side that was gobbed 8-zip, probably has a job safer than some of the other teams in the league currently ðŸ˜‚


----------



## fundy (Sep 22, 2019)

Piece said:



			The coach of a side that was gobbed 8-zip, probably has a job safer than some of the other teams in the league ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...


only cos youve already lapped everyone in this years sack race


----------



## Piece (Sep 22, 2019)

fundy said:



			only cos youve already lapped everyone in this years sack race 

Click to expand...

Yay, first at something for a change! ðŸ˜„ðŸ¤ªðŸ¤£


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 22, 2019)

Well ave gotta say I was a big VAR fan. I was all for it. But after This seasons Rammel decisions I have seen up to yet, you can shove it. Quite frankly it's a shower of ( insert own word). Is it the disallowed City goal v Spurs that got me thinking about changing my mind. Maybe. Is it 1 MM offside yesterday. Maybe, is it the goal v Liverpool today where 8 players touched the ball after the initial offside where not one defender appealed. Maybe. Same as the City game where not one player appealed for offside. Maybe it's the game yesterday where the Burnley player was fouled for an obvious penalty 10 yds from the ref, where VAR was not used. Maybe it's a dozen other instances. Whatever the reason, VAR was brought in to eliminate us bitching on here re human error from referees partly because they got it wrong and partly because of players cheating. Human error I can accept, but human error involving technology. No way. VAR you can shove it.
Maybe this was brought home today by watching the Rugby Union World Cup were referees know what exactly what the are asking for and referees take no crap from players. Plus the Rugby federation are happy, sorry it is the norm to " cite" players after the game for cheating. Come what may from Tashyboys point of view, you can shove VAR.
Rant over.


----------



## fundy (Sep 22, 2019)

somehow were winning 3-2


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 22, 2019)

fundy said:



			somehow were winning 3-2 

Click to expand...

Are we a happy camper now? Or do you think they'll find a new way to throw it away


----------



## fundy (Sep 22, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Are we a happy camper now? Or do you think they'll find a new way to throw it away
		
Click to expand...

short term joy but nothings changed has it, we still have the wrong structure, still cant defend, thankfully we have quality at the other end of the park which may have bailed us out again but that wont work often enough

as an arsenal and btts and liverpool and btts backer im happy though, or will be if the refs would blow FT haha


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 22, 2019)

fundy said:



			short term joy but nothings changed has it, we still have the wrong structure, still cant defend, thankfully we have quality at the other end of the park which may have bailed us out again but that wont work often enough

as an arsenal and btts and liverpool and btts backer im happy though, or will be if the refs would blow FT haha
		
Click to expand...

Not much you can do until January regarding personnel and the only way you can change defending and the set up is for the manager to change his philosophy. Can't rely on the forwards to get the side out of trouble every time. Still a win is a win and 4th in the table and only one defeat in the last five


----------



## sawtooth (Sep 22, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Are we a happy camper now? Or do you think they'll find a new way to throw it away
		
Click to expand...


Are you joking? Fundy is never happy with Arsenal.

Emery is only getting started, heâ€™s doing well and will keep things improving at Arsenal.


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 22, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Are you joking? Fundy is never happy with Arsenal.

Emery is only getting started, heâ€™s doing well and will keep things improving at Arsenal.
		
Click to expand...

Needs to drastically improve the defence


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 22, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Are you joking? Fundy is never happy with Arsenal.

Emery is only getting started, heâ€™s doing well and will keep things improving at Arsenal.
		
Click to expand...

Is that for real? Every available stat has him worse than Aresene Wengers last 20 games. That isn't to blow smoke up Wenger, it is to point out just how bad Dick is.

And what ever happens, Mourinho is not the answer.


----------



## Slime (Sep 22, 2019)

United .................... sack the board, they're killing us right now.
It's going to be a long season unless we buy a midfielder come January, and possibly a striker, too!


----------



## adam6177 (Sep 22, 2019)

Slime said:



			United .................... sack the board, they're killing us right now.
It's going to be a long season unless we buy a midfielder come January, and possibly a striker, too!
		
Click to expand...

Did you see the stats mid game about the spend since 2013?


----------



## sawtooth (Sep 22, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Needs to drastically improve the defence
		
Click to expand...

Of course and he will most likely in the fullness of time.

Despite what some on here say Iâ€™m optimistic and excited about the future.

Great youngsters like Willock and Saka coming through, Pepe will be exceptional once he settles in ( could take a season) and we have Bellerin, Holding, even Saliba when he joins us.

Winning playing bad is not a bad quality either.


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 22, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Of course and he will most likely in the fullness of time.

Despite what some on here say Iâ€™m optimistic and excited about the future.

Great youngsters like Willock and Saka coming through, Pepe will be exceptional once he settles in ( could take a season) and we have Bellerin, Holding, even Saliba when he joins us.

Winning playing bad is not a bad quality either.
		
Click to expand...

Was pepe actually what you needed though? Another winger 

Would that money not be better invested in a decent defender


----------



## sawtooth (Sep 22, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Was pepe actually what you needed though? Another winger

Would that money not be better invested in a decent defender
		
Click to expand...

We have decent defenders and defensive midfielders, they are young and will make mistakes. Take Guendouzi heâ€™s only 20 he will only get better like most of the squad.

Itâ€™s a difficult balancing act, every manager needs to blend youth and experience and keep within a budget , not easy.

I dont think we should judge Emery too harshly too soon.


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 22, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			We have decent defenders and defensive midfielders, they are young and will make mistakes. Take Guendouzi heâ€™s only 20 he will only get better like most of the squad.

Itâ€™s a difficult balancing act, every manager needs to blend youth and experience and keep within a budget , not easy.

I dont think we should judge Emery too harshly too soon.
		
Click to expand...

Second season already when can he be judged?

Your cbs are ropey. The fact that david Luiz has walked into the team says a lot. Hes a liability


----------



## fundy (Sep 22, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Was pepe actually what you needed though? Another winger 

Would that money not be better invested in a decent defender
		
Click to expand...


No not at all imho but it was what Dick wanted for his preferred style of playing. 

He is hamstrung to some degree by the prior mismanagement of assets (ie paying Ozil 350k a week, buying Mustafi etc etc)

More worrying for me are the comments he makes. That the defenders are going to have to learn how to play out from the back and are working on it, that Torreira could be used as an attacking midfielder, that Granit Xhaka is his captain. They are so clearly the wrong noises for a side that is conceding more shots than any other top flight team currently!!!


----------



## sawtooth (Sep 22, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Second season already when can he be judged?

Your cbs are ropey. The fact that david Luiz has walked into the team says a lot. Hes a liability
		
Click to expand...

Luiz for all his faults was a shrewd piece of business. We needed some one half decent and experienced ready to come in to replace what was shipped out. Itâ€™s not a long term thing probably 1-2 seasons IMO.

I will change my mind on Emery when he looks like a man running out of ideas.


----------



## Slime (Sep 22, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			Did you see the stats mid game about the spend since 2013?
		
Click to expand...

To be honest, I couldn't give a stuff about what was spent/wasted six years ago.
I'm interested in who Ole is allowed to buy.
It was patently clear that we needed to bolster the midfield, having lost Herera, and we just didn't.
The midfield situation is critical, especially when Pogba's not available, as he's our main man in there!
The Glazer's have badly let us down ............................... and Woodward's a chump.


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 22, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Luiz for all his faults was a shrewd piece of business. We needed some one half decent and experienced ready to come in to replace what was shipped out. Itâ€™s not a long term thing probably 1-2 seasons IMO.

I will change my mind on Emery when he looks like a man running out of ideas.
		
Click to expand...

8 mil for sideshow bob when could have got Cahill for free

Cahill has proven a lot better


----------



## adam6177 (Sep 22, 2019)

Slime said:



			To be honest, I couldn't give a stuff about what was spent/wasted six years ago.
I'm interested in who Ole is allowed to buy.
It was patently clear that we needed to bolster the midfield, having lost Herera, and we just didn't.
The midfield situation is critical, especially when Pogba's not available, as he's our main man in there!
The Glazer's have badly let us down ............................... and Woodward's a chump. 

Click to expand...

Any idea how the scouting process/buying process works at man utd?  Something is failing isn't it.

Â£892m since 2013, 2nd only to man city.


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 22, 2019)

See attached for some pretty damning stats.


----------



## fundy (Sep 22, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			See attached for some pretty damning stats.
		
Click to expand...


And if you break it down to his first 20 and last 20 games it gets even worse, ie there was a honeymoon effect and is now declining!


----------



## Slime (Sep 22, 2019)

adam6177 said:



*Any idea how the scouting process/buying process works at man utd?*  Something is failing isn't it.

Â£892m since 2013, 2nd only to man city.
		
Click to expand...

It would appear that United can only attempt to buy one player at a time.
They then try to knock the price down as much as possible, usually without success, and this takes a few weeks.
It took six weeks to get AWB before moving on to Maguire, which took another few weeks, bought him for Â£80M, which we couls have done a month earlier, and suddenly the window shuts!
Presto, we still have massive holes in the midfield.
Instead of Woodward wasting forever to save a few million, we should pay a reasonable price and move on to the next target.
Also, we were trying to offload Sanchez and Lukaku, but we didn't seem to be targetting replacements until our sales were complete and, yet again, we ran out of time.
Get a Director of Football and bin Woodward.
Van der Sar seems pretty switched on, go for him I'd say.


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 22, 2019)

Oh, and I should credit the web site I took the stats off, thanks to Le Grove.


----------



## fundy (Sep 22, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1175736772602552320
haha brilliant from the City fans, sorry Piece!!!!!!


----------



## Bazzatron (Sep 22, 2019)

Hopefully that last minute equaliser is the turning point for us and we can start moving up. 
My shins are battered but worth it, and the 3 hour journey home.


----------



## davemc1 (Sep 22, 2019)

Slime said:



			United .................... sack the board, they're killing us right now.
It's going to be a long season unless we buy a midfielder come January, and possibly a striker, too!
		
Click to expand...

Bro wtf? I thought yous had the best defence in the league? A solid basis to build on...


----------



## davemc1 (Sep 22, 2019)

Another win not playing great, canâ€™t wait till we start playing.

Imagine how much further ahead weâ€™d be if we had Alison!


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 22, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Another win not playing great, canâ€™t wait till we start playing.

Imagine how much further ahead weâ€™d be if we had Alison!
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s your year according to klopp ðŸ‘


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 22, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Double whammy as VAR cost Chelsea a goal and Liverpool go down the other end and score. Game over and a question of how many now for Liverpool
		
Click to expand...

VAR never cost cost Chelsea a goal, the pathetic  offside rule did.


----------



## davemc1 (Sep 22, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Itâ€™s your year according to klopp ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Did he say that?

Love it ðŸ˜


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 22, 2019)

fundy said:



			Too good Stu 

Click to expand...

Easy money. Yernited are shite. Pass it on .


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 22, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Did he say that?

Love it ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™m a nob. Meant Pep. 

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...p-guardiola-after-3-1-defeat-to-norwich-video


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 22, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Luiz for all his faults was a shrewd piece of business. We needed some one half decent and experienced ready to come in to replace what was shipped out. Itâ€™s not a long term thing probably 1-2 seasons IMO.

I* ll change my mind on Emery when he looks like a man running out of ideas.*

Click to expand...

Last week or the week before ðŸ¤­


----------



## fundy (Sep 22, 2019)

Just seen Sokratis pitiful attempt to con the ref, ffs what is wrong with some of these footballers!


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 22, 2019)

Slime said:



			To be honest, I couldn't give a stuff about what was spent/wasted six years ago.
I'm interested in who Ole is allowed to buy.
It was patently clear that we needed to bolster the midfield, having lost Herera, and we just didn't.
The midfield situation is critical, especially when Pogba's not available, as he's our main man in there!
The Glazer's have badly let us down ............................... and Woodward's a chump. 

Click to expand...

You've changed your mind quickly....


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 22, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Another win not playing great, canâ€™t wait till we start playing.

Imagine how much further ahead weâ€™d be if we had Alison!
		
Click to expand...

At least another 12 pts ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Pin-seeker (Sep 23, 2019)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....-hacking-scouting-liverpool-a9115071.html?amp

Naughty


----------



## Slime (Sep 23, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Bro wtf? I thought yous had the best defence in the league? *A solid basis to build on...*

Click to expand...

Absolutely, but we haven't even got the foundations laid yet!
It's almost impossible to win a match with no midfield and isolated attackers.
I'd have thought even you would have realised that.


----------



## Slime (Sep 23, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Another win not playing great, canâ€™t wait till we start playing.

*Imagine how much further ahead weâ€™d be if we had Alison!*

Click to expand...

You've won six out of six, please tell me how much further ahead you think you'd be with Alison.








This should be good.


----------



## Slime (Sep 23, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			You've changed your mind quickly....
		
Click to expand...

Que?


----------



## davemc1 (Sep 23, 2019)

Slime said:



			Absolutely, but we haven't even got the foundations laid yet!
It's almost impossible to win a match with no midfield and isolated attackers.
I'd have thought even you would have realised that.
		
Click to expand...

Even me? ðŸ˜†


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 23, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Another win not playing great, canâ€™t wait till we start playing.

Imagine how much further ahead weâ€™d be if we had Alison!
		
Click to expand...

Will he get back in the team ?
6 out of 6 .
Canâ€™t change a winning side!!


----------



## 4LEX (Sep 23, 2019)

Any sign of the Ole fan boys now?!

I genuinely feel sorry for him - a rabbit in the headlights and every interview a total cringe fest. This guy wouldn't even get an interview for a job like Southampton or West Ham. His track record is laughable and putting him in charge of Man Utd was like letting an intern become CEO of a one of the biggest companies in Europe after the summer holidays.

He wasn't fit for the job and theres only one person to blame - Ed Woodward. Almost everything he's done football wise since 2013 has been a failure. Transfer policy, managerial appointments, letting player power take over - you name it he's messed it up. However because the club is reporting increased revenue the Glazers are happy to turn a blind eye. He'll only go once the football mess eats into the profits. So it's a catch 22 situation and I can't see anything changing unless he actually learns from his mistakes but the biggest ones of all have been in the last year  Not backing Mourinho (who did produce miracles with an average squad), then giving Ole the job, then failing to strengthen the attack and midfield which was already bang average and letting 2-3 key players leave without being replaced! 

Man Utd have actually been lucky this season too, the true position would be more towards the relegation zone. A bizzare win against Chelsea and a lucky win over Leicester have given their season more credit than it deserves.


----------



## 4LEX (Sep 23, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			See attached for some pretty damning stats.
		
Click to expand...

What that doesn't tell you is the absolute mess Wenger left the club in. Overpaid key players, shocking contract situations and a lack of any real money for Emery to spend. To turn Arsenal around is a 3-4 year job and he's doing fairly well given the lack of resources he's got compared to the likes of Utd, City and Liverpool. Even Spurs are on another level.


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 23, 2019)

Emery has spent a fortune. He is bang average. Fine, if the club has zero ambition, but he will never compete with Klopp or Pep. There is no point in giving him time, he is David Moyes reborn.

They need someone with vision. Someone who can get the players on board with that vision.

Someone like Nagelsmann.


----------



## fundy (Sep 23, 2019)

4LEX said:



			What that doesn't tell you is the absolute mess Wenger left the club in. Overpaid key players, shocking contract situations and a lack of any real money for Emery to spend. To turn Arsenal around is a 3-4 year job and he's doing fairly well given the lack of resources he's got compared to the likes of Utd, City and Liverpool. Even Spurs are on another level.
		
Click to expand...

Doing fairly well? On what basis?

In the summer he didnt address the glaring problem the side has yet spent 70m+ on a winger that at best was a luxury for the imbalanced squad (especially once the loan for Ceballos was agreed)

Hes then made one of the biggest liabilities the club has captain and insists on picking him every week

Instead of training defenders to defend hes training them to play out from the back and insisting on making them even more uncomfortable

He wants to play our only proper holding midfielder further forward (to accommodate aforementioned liability of a captain)

Hes unable of finding a role/coach/motivate someone we pay 350k a week


There were plenty of problems from the way the assets of the club have been mismanaged for years but he doesnt seem to be addressing the glaring issues the fans have seen for years and years, its as if nothings changed! weve not gone forward or backwards, were still relying on 2 or 3 top class attackers to bail us out. We havent learnt how to press, dont defend as a team, are giving up more shots to mediocre sides than bottom half sides are.

The only positive is that some of the youngsters are getting a look in


----------



## Junior (Sep 23, 2019)

4LEX said:



			Any sign of the Ole fan boys now?!

I genuinely feel sorry for him - a rabbit in the headlights and every interview a total cringe fest. This guy wouldn't even get an interview for a job like Southampton or West Ham. His track record is laughable and putting him in charge of Man Utd was like letting an intern become CEO of a one of the biggest companies in Europe after the summer holidays.

He wasn't fit for the job and theres only one person to blame - Ed Woodward. Almost everything he's done football wise since 2013 has been a failure. Transfer policy, managerial appointments, letting player power take over - you name it he's messed it up. However because the club is reporting increased revenue the Glazers are happy to turn a blind eye. He'll only go once the football mess eats into the profits. So it's a catch 22 situation and I can't see anything changing unless he actually learns from his mistakes but the biggest ones of all have been in the last year  Not backing Mourinho (who did produce miracles with an average squad), then giving Ole the job, then failing to strengthen the attack and midfield which was already bang average and letting 2-3 key players leave without being replaced!

Man Utd have actually been lucky this season too, the true position would be more towards the relegation zone. A bizzare win against Chelsea and a lucky win over Leicester have given their season more credit than it deserves.
		
Click to expand...


I don't blame Ole.  I'm still a fan boy.      It's a strange situation in that our worst performances were Chelsea and Leicester (6 pts), yet against Palace and Southampton we played well and drew and lost.  I don't think were a relegation team, but we're a top 8 team at best right now. 

I agree with what you say about Woodward.  We should have spent more.  Investing in youth is one thing, but we need more experience (upfront especially) and a stronger squad.   Injuries have caught us out big time.  Our only fit striker is 17 years old........ffs.     All of City's bench at the weekend would walk into our first team and Neville is right, 4 or 5 players are required.


----------



## adam6177 (Sep 23, 2019)

Junior said:



			I agree with what you say about Woodward.  We should have spent more
		
Click to expand...

Is nearly Â£900m since 2013 not enough?


----------



## Piece (Sep 23, 2019)

Messi wins the FIFA best award 2019. Not sure why. I had him a distant third way behind Ronaldo and VVD. Can't make a case at all for Messi.


----------



## Junior (Sep 23, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			Is nearly Â£900m since 2013 not enough?
		
Click to expand...

Nope, how can we leave ourselves in a position when our only fit striker at this moment in time is 17 years old?


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 23, 2019)

Piece said:



			Messi wins the FIFA best award 2019. Not sure why. I had him a distant third way behind Ronaldo and VVD. Can't make a case at all for Messi.
		
Click to expand...

51 goals in 50 games may have something to do with it


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 23, 2019)

My grief with the FIFA awards is this. 6 players from barcelona and real madrid are on that list. For what. Which leads me to think, its a joke. Are all players on that list a joke, No. But it makes the list look laughable. Another year not one City manager or player misses out on an award. Personally as long as we keep winning the big cups i will be happy.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 24, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			My grief with the FIFA awards is this. 6 players from barcelona and real madrid are on that list. For what. Which leads me to think, its a joke. Are all players on that list a joke, No. But it makes the list look laughable. Another year not one City manager or player misses out on an award. Personally as long as we keep winning the big cups i will be happy.
		
Click to expand...

Why?? City have only won domestic trophies,they've never won  europes club elite trophy ...


----------



## Piece (Sep 24, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			51 goals in 50 games may have something to do with it
		
Click to expand...

Did nothing at international level and was last seen in VVDs pocket. Voted by the same people that thought those RM stars should be in after having a gash season. Oh, and also giving Leeds an award for fair play...ðŸ˜‚ðŸ¤£ðŸ˜‚ðŸ¤£ðŸ˜‚ðŸ¤£


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 24, 2019)

Junior said:



			Nope, how can we leave ourselves in a position when our only fit striker at this moment in time is 17 years old?
		
Click to expand...

For me  this goes back to Ferguson when he failed to improve the whole squad especially the defence and bought an aging RVP and adopted the " we'll score more than you" attitude and left that squad.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 24, 2019)

Piece said:



			Messi wins the FIFA best award 2019. Not sure why. I had him a distant third way behind Ronaldo and VVD. Can't make a case at all for Messi.
		
Click to expand...


The team of the year is even worse




Marcelo ?!? Ramos ? Modric ?!


----------



## pendodave (Sep 24, 2019)

One for random gooners... I'm hoping to finish work early evening today and go home via Finsbury park. If the mood takes me, would I be able to wander up to the Emirates and buy one of their Â£10 tickets on the gate?
Can't buy it in advance, as its possible I'll get put on something when I get to work and then I won't finish 'till later.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 24, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Why?? City have only won domestic trophies,they've never won  europes club elite trophy ...
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ¤£ we were swopping them ( trophies) the other week.  Thing is the run that City pit together to win a league against the manager of the year that didnt win it. Hmmm. But Salah not in that list. Ronaldo is  not the best player in the Portugal team at the moment. Nope


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 24, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			ðŸ¤£ we were swopping them ( trophies) the other week.  Thing is the run that City pit together to win a league against the manager of the year that didnt win it. Hmmm. But Salah not in that list. Ronaldo is  not the best player in the Portugal team at the moment. Nope
		
Click to expand...

That logic would mean every manager that won their domestic league should win the manager of the year!
Klopp won the Champions league.
Pep will win it if he ever wins the CL.

Salah is to inconsistent he scores goals but has some really poor performances. Chelsea at the weekend was one of them.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 24, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			That logic would mean every manager that won their domestic league should win the manager of the year!
Klopp won the Champions league.
Pep will win it if he ever wins the CL.

Salah is to inconsistent he scores goals but has some really poor performances. Chelsea at the weekend was one of them.
		
Click to expand...

You could turn that and say that every manager that wins the CL wins manager of the year. Furthermore, why not say that every player that wins the CL wins player of the year. That's just silly, unless City win the CL ðŸ˜.
But again 6 players from Barca and RM. For what. 
Am listening to the women's player of the year, yup her speech was impressive. But equal pay. Again when you come out with rubbish like that you diminish your opinion.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 24, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			You could turn that and say that every manager that wins the CL wins manager of the year. Furthermore, why not say that every player that wins the CL wins player of the year. That's just silly, unless City win the CL ðŸ˜.
But again 6 players from Barca and RM. For what.
Am listening to the women's player of the year, yup her speech was impressive. But equal pay. Again when you come out with rubbish like that you diminish your opinion.
		
Click to expand...

We were only a few points behind you last year plus the CL win .
This is what tipped the vote imo.
I agree with the Barca RM players but thatâ€™s just to be expected with lists like this itâ€™s just the norm.
For me KDB is the best player in the world ,but missed to many games last year to be included.

How can the women get equal pay when the men donâ€™t even have that?
Some players in the same team earn differing amounts.
But if you shout loud enough ( tennis) you may get it.
But the supporters just donâ€™t watch womenâ€™s footy in numbers sufficient to pay them that.


----------



## Piece (Sep 24, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			You could turn that and say that every manager that wins the CL wins manager of the year. Furthermore, why not say that every player that wins the CL wins player of the year. That's just silly, unless City win the CL ðŸ˜.
But again 6 players from Barca and RM. For what.
Am listening to the women's player of the year, yup her speech was impressive. *But equal pay. Again when you come out with rubbish like that you diminish your opinion*.
		
Click to expand...

I'm going to be so un-PC, but equal pay?! It's like charging Ferrari prices for a Ford. If you want equal pay, reduce the US men's pay then!!


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 24, 2019)

Piece said:



			I'm going to be so un-PC, but equal pay?! It's like charging Ferrari prices for a Ford.
		
Click to expand...

That horse bolted when women were awarded equal prize money at Wimbledon for playing a lower quality, shorter version of the game.


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 24, 2019)

Piece said:



			I'm going to be so un-PC, but equal pay?! It's like charging Ferrari prices for a Ford.
		
Click to expand...


Check out some YouTube videos where TV presenters from Australia debate the pay the Matildas fought for. Very interesting stuff.


----------



## Piece (Sep 24, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			That horse bolted when women were awarded equal prize money at Wimbledon for playing a lower quality, shorter version of the game.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I can't argue against that. Only thing I can say is that they share the same stage, facilities and crowd as the men for Womble. Currently, they don't at all in football.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 24, 2019)

Piece said:



			Unfortunately, I can't argue against that. Only thing I can say is that they share the same stage, facilities and crowd as the men for Womble. Currently, they don't at all in football.
		
Click to expand...

They should only get 3/5 ths of the menâ€™s pay as they only play three sets max.
Itâ€™s like women footballers only playing 60 mins.approx!


----------



## pendodave (Sep 24, 2019)

Not sure exactly of the context of the Rapinoe remarks, but in the US, womens' football almost certainly attracts larger TV audiences than the mens' team, so there is a genuine grievance if they are paid less than the male US team (which I think is the case).


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 24, 2019)

pendodave said:



			Not sure exactly of the context of the Rapinoe remarks, but in the US, womens' football almost certainly attracts larger TV audiences than the mens' team, so there is a genuine grievance if they are paid less than the male US team (which I think is the case).
		
Click to expand...

That may well be the case re TV, but according to Wikipedia. 650,000 watched women's football in the stadium last season. MLS saw 7.5 million in 2016.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 24, 2019)

Me finks Pochittino is going for manager of the year. Same as Klopp did at this stage last year ðŸ˜


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 24, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Me finks Pochittino is going for manager of the year. Same as Klopp did at this stage last year ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Will Spurs be that upset? Definitely the lowest priority of all the comps and if they got away with no injuries then surely he'll move on to look at PL and CL progress (and they need to get PL form sorted)


----------



## ColchesterFC (Sep 24, 2019)

Just a quick post to say hello to all the Spurs fans on here. It's a Mickey Mouse competition anyway and not worth winning.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 24, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Just a quick post to say hello to all the Spurs fans on here. It's a Mickey Mouse competition anyway and not worth winning.
		
Click to expand...

Great night for your boys though. Always good to beat the big boys. Another home draw next round would be good! Especially if you get on TV and the extra revenue


----------



## fundy (Sep 24, 2019)

Yeah spurs were that not bothered that 2 of the penalties were missed by Erickson and Moura (Alli, Lamela and Son also took pens)

Congrats Colchester


----------



## ColchesterFC (Sep 24, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Great night for your boys though. Always good to beat the big boys. Another home draw next round would be good! Especially if you get on TV and the extra revenue
		
Click to expand...

Just gutted that I didn't get tickets. Was meant to be offshore so didn't apply but job finished early so could've gone. Any extra revenue is a massive bonus as it means we might be able to hold on to one of our youngsters for an extra year and get more for them when we do sell them.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 24, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Will Spurs be that upset? Definitely the lowest priority of all the comps and if they got away with no injuries then surely he'll move on to look at PL and CL progress (and they need to get PL form sorted)
		
Click to expand...

Probably not Homer but Mr Colchester will be over the moon bless him. Just read that City have not lost in that Comp since October 2016. I suppose at least they take it serious.


----------



## Swingalot (Sep 24, 2019)

First us, now Spurs. Come on the â€˜Uâ€™s hope you keep the cup run going!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 24, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Me finks Pochittino is going for manager of the year. Same as Klopp did at this stage last year ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

The bitterness that Pep or Man City Players didnt win awards still go strong I see ðŸ™„


Great result from Colchester - Spurs certainly put out a strong side , hopefully a nice juicy tie next round


----------



## sawtooth (Sep 25, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Emery has spent a fortune. He is bang average. Fine, if the club has zero ambition, but he will never compete with Klopp or Pep. There is no point in giving him time, he is David Moyes reborn.

They need someone with vision. Someone who can get the players on board with that vision.

Someone like Nagelsmann.
		
Click to expand...

Dislike and disagree.

I know itâ€™s only Forest in the Carabao cup but plenty of reasons to be optimistic and positive about the future. Young players on display are quality and need time to get even better. We canâ€™t fall into a trap of switching managers every 1-2 years thereâ€™s no quick fix out there IMO.

Emery is slowly integrating these young players into the first 11 and most will be regulars in 2-3 years time. For example Holding, Tierney, Willock, Martinelli and even Chambers now is looking like the player we hoped he would become.

Your assessment of Emery is harsh and unjustified. Dropping Ozil ( and Mustafi) like he does shows me that he is no fool, the easiest thing to do for a â€œbang averageâ€ manager is to choose to play all of the big earners but he refuses to play people on reputation alone and is not frightened to change things up.


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 25, 2019)

Easy to look at that one game. Harder to ignore a year and a half. He is just the wrong fit for Arsenal. 
Most of the kids playing last night are the product of Freddie, not Emery.


----------



## Piece (Sep 25, 2019)

Some interesting scores tonight. Bournemouth going out at Burton, Rochdale level at Old Trafford and Wham being embarrassingly slapped by Oxford.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 25, 2019)

Don't know if Tashyboy has ever mentioned it, but he was born in Rochdale. guess who's results he closely follows ðŸ˜


----------



## Slime (Sep 25, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Don't know if Tashyboy has ever mentioned it, but he was born in Rochdale. guess who's results he closely follows ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Unlucky.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Don't know if Tashyboy has ever mentioned it, *but he was born in Rochdale*. guess who's results he closely follows ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

And you follow City?

Glory......


----------



## Slime (Sep 25, 2019)

Oh dear.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Sep 25, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			And you follow City?

Glory......
		
Click to expand...

Glory hunting trophy whore?

Although as a long standing Man City fan that's almost certainly unfair (of me) on Tashy as he's been through the bad times and deserves to bask in their recent triumphs.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 25, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			And you follow City?

Glory......
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ‘

Only for the last 8 years ðŸ˜. Oh the cold nights I spent at spotlands supping boiling Bovril.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Sep 25, 2019)

So our reward for beating Spurs is an away trip to Crawley. Hopefully we can get through that and get a decent away trip in the quarter finals. Although I won't be putting any cash on us getting past Crawley.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ‘

Only for the last 8 years ðŸ˜. Oh the cold nights I spent at spotlands supping boiling Bovril.
		
Click to expand...

You have no shame do you Tashy ðŸ˜ðŸ˜


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2019)

Nice of the EFL to give us a bye into the quarters ðŸ¤­ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 25, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			You have no shame do you Tashy ðŸ˜ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Nope, ðŸ˜. Joking aside, when we emigrated from Rochdale to Mansfield in 1970. I needed my football fix, I was only seven. I remember when I Was 5 or 6 and we used to sneak into Rochdale rugby league every Sunday to watch speedway or Stock car racing. Live sports was in me blood. Anyway when I was about 11 I got a season ticket at the Stags. Mansfield Town. It was brilliant. That last game of the season at Wrexham when Ernie Moss rose like a salmon to head the winner. Stags div three champions and playing in the old div two. Which is now the Championship.
Happy days. Still kinda miss the three hours each way two or three times a season when me old man took us to Maine rd, coming back usually talking about another defeat.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 25, 2019)

Ooooooooow there's some rib ticklers in that draw.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 25, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Ooooooooow there's some rib ticklers in that draw.
		
Click to expand...

Whilst city get another walk over, small things eh Tashy ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 25, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Whilst city get another walk over, small things eh Tashy ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜³ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ we are undefeated in that comp in three years. We must of had one tough Un in that time.


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 26, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Nice of the EFL to give us a bye into the quarters ðŸ¤­ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

No argument from me there!


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 26, 2019)

You know what - I think OGS might not be a very good manager.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 26, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			ðŸ˜³ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ we are undefeated in that comp in three years. We must of had one tough Un in that time.
		
Click to expand...

Burton last year was the toughest ðŸ¤­


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Sep 26, 2019)

OK, so it's not PL footy, but relevant to a few of us
Barcelona joke fine.


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 26, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Burton last year was the toughest ðŸ¤­
		
Click to expand...

Oddly enough in the last year City have had every result from 1-0 up to 9-0. Think Burton was the 9-0, three months to get a 10-0. Wonder when we play Utd ðŸ¤”


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 26, 2019)

Don't like banging on about it but the UEFA team of the year. Someone copy and paste the piece on BBC about Salah. Third on player of year, not in team. Votes not counted and yet some are from players who say they never voted are. Stinks


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 26, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Don't like banging on about it but the UEFA team of the year. Someone copy and paste the piece on BBC about Salah. Third on player of year, not in team. Votes not counted and yet some are from players who say they never voted are. Stinks
		
Click to expand...

I wouldn't of had Salah in last year. 

Imo Mane was their best attacking outlet. Realistically hard to not pick Ronaldo and Messi. Leaves one spot..


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 26, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I wouldn't of had Salah in last year.

Imo Mane was their best attacking outlet. Realistically hard to not pick Ronaldo and Messi. Leaves one spot..
		
Click to expand...

Auba?


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 26, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Auba?
		
Click to expand...

I rate him, but based on Last year imo its hard to actually argue with the 3 that got in. 

Kante and Modric were the too biggest shockers imo


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 26, 2019)

Front three werenâ€™t the shockers even though I think Mane should have been in there 

For me it was having - Marcelo , Ramos and Modric in there and squeezing in De Ligt ar right back ?!?

My FIFA team from last year 

Alisson

TAA
Laporte
VVD
Robertson

De Jong
Fernandinho 
B Silva

Hazard
Messi
Mane


----------



## fundy (Sep 26, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Front three werenâ€™t the shockers even though I think Mane should have been in there 

For me it was having - Marcelo , Ramos and Modric in there and squeezing in De Ligt ar right back ?!?

My FIFA team from last year 

Alisson

TAA
Laporte
VVD
Robertson

De Jong
Fernandinho 
B Silva

Hazard
Messi
Mane
		
Click to expand...


only 5 liverpool players? surely you can do better than that lol


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 26, 2019)

fundy said:



			only 5 liverpool players? surely you can do better than that lol
		
Click to expand...

With four of them from the best defence in Europe last year that won the CL - who would you have instead of the 5 I picked ?


----------



## fundy (Sep 26, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			With four of them from the best defence in Europe last year that won the CL - who would you have instead of the 5 I picked ?
		
Click to expand...

lets be real here, you won the cup on the night but were on a par to several other sides in europe (dont forget you werent even the best side in your own league), do you really think you had almost half the out and out best players in their positions across Europe?

you really think TAA was the best right back in Europe? (as you know i dont think he was the best in the prem!) decent prospect playing in a good team yes, best in europe not for me! In his place Id probably have someone like Kimmich

Robertson had a cracking season, was he better than Alaba or Marcelo, not fior me.

Cant argue with VVD, gets in everyones team of the year!

Alisson was one of a handful of decent keepers, if you hadnt won the CL wouldnt even be discussed for team of the year imo

Mane decent year but not in the best 3 attacking players by quite a long way for me (wouldnt get in a top 3 in the prem let alone Europe again)


Surely if you had 5 of the best players in their position in Europe, plus Salah, plus Firminho etc youd have won the prem league by 20+ points?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 26, 2019)

fundy said:



			lets be real here, you won the cup on the night but were on a par to several other sides in europe (dont forget you werent even the best side in your own league), do you really think you had almost half the out and out best players in their positions across Europe?

you really think TAA was the best right back in Europe? (as you know i dont think he was the best in the prem!) decent prospect playing in a good team yes, best in europe not for me! In his place Id probably have someone like Kimmich

Robertson had a cracking season, was he better than Alaba or Marcelo, not fior me.

Cant argue with VVD, gets in everyones team of the year!

Alisson was one of a handful of decent keepers, if you hadnt won the CL wouldnt even be discussed for team of the year imo

Mane decent year but not in the best 3 attacking players by quite a long way for me (wouldnt get in a top 3 in the prem let alone Europe again)


Surely if you had 5 of the best players in their position in Europe, plus Salah, plus Firminho etc youd have won the prem league by 20+ points?
		
Click to expand...

I guess we will have to disagree 

In regards the GK - difference between Ederson and Alisson paper thin , 

RB - with a lot of the European football not on Sky etc can only go by what I saw in the CL and Kimmich wasnâ€™t great in the games in saw and against us - TAA needs to mature in regards his defending but going forward - no better imo

LB - I see Robbo as the best left back in Europe , both going forward and defending 

Mane - he had more than a decent year , he was huge for us last year , golden boot , and some crucial goals in the CL 

All five were voted into the CL team squad of the year - Alisson GK of the year , TAA & Robbo 3rd and 4th respectively in the Defender of the year and Mane 2nd in the Forward of the year 
 And I think 4 of them were in the Prem Team of the year with Alisson missing out


----------



## fundy (Sep 26, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I guess we will have to disagree 

In regards the GK - difference between Ederson and Alisson paper thin , 

RB - with a lot of the European football not on Sky etc can only go by what I saw in the CL and Kimmich wasnâ€™t great in the games in saw and against us - TAA needs to mature in regards his defending but going forward - no better imo

LB - I see Robbo as the best left back in Europe , both going forward and defending 

Mane - he had more than a decent year , he was huge for us last year , golden boot , and some crucial goals in the CL 

All five were voted into the CL team squad of the year - Alisson GK of the year , TAA & Robbo 3rd and 4th respectively in the Defender of the year and Mane 2nd in the Forward of the year 
 And I think 4 of them were in the Prem Team of the year with Alisson missing out
		
Click to expand...


Of course they were, because the way these sides are constructed are massively overly biased to the teams that win the trophy, doesnt make them right. If you genuinely believe those 5 are the best in their position in Europe, plus Salah, there must be some almighty passengers in the other 5 to not win the premier league! the truth is as always somewhere in between


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 26, 2019)

fundy said:



			Of course they were, because the way these sides are constructed are massively overly biased to the teams that win the trophy, doesnt make them right. If you genuinely believe those 5 are the best in their position in Europe, plus Salah, there must be some almighty passengers in the other 5 to not win the premier league! the truth is as always somewhere in between 

Click to expand...

We are talking performances throughout the year here and not their ability - so yes you would expect the winners to be in there because they have performed better than others.


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Front three werenâ€™t the shockers even though I think Mane should have been in there

For me it was having - Marcelo , Ramos and Modric in there and squeezing in De Ligt ar right back ?!?

My FIFA team from last year

Alisson

TAA
Laporte
VVD
Robertson

De Jong
Fernandinho
B Silva

Hazard
Messi
Mane
		
Click to expand...

Don't follow any other leagues apart from England then.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 27, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Don't follow any other leagues apart from England then. 

Click to expand...

Try and keep abreast on other leagues but hard with the amount of subscriptions- why ? Is there some glaring mistakes


----------



## Pin-seeker (Sep 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Front three werenâ€™t the shockers even though I think Mane should have been in there

For me it was having - Marcelo , Ramos and Modric in there and squeezing in De Ligt ar right back ?!?

My FIFA team from last year

Alisson

TAA
Laporte
VVD
Robertson

De Jong
Fernandinho
B Silva

Hazard
Messi
Mane
		
Click to expand...

Blimey & you called Tashy bitter ðŸ™ˆðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Beezerk (Sep 27, 2019)

Let's face it, the CL final should have been Barca Vs Ajax anyway, by far the best two teams in Europe last season imo. Barca thought it was job done after the first leg and never showed up at Anfield, and the other semi, well that was insane and Ajax should have won by a country mile.
So by my logic there shouldn't be any Liverpool players in team of the year ðŸ˜…


----------



## fundy (Sep 27, 2019)

Opinion of Emery lowered again as he makes the clown Xhaka captain of Arsenal football club


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 27, 2019)

fundy said:



			Opinion of Emery lowered again as he makes the clown Xhaka captain of Arsenal football club
		
Click to expand...

The fact he had the players vote shows just how weak he is.


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 27, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			The fact he had the players vote shows just how weak he is.
		
Click to expand...

Tbf many managers now say they don't see the captain as too important a role. 

Southgate has mentioned it many times. Not many clubs have a Gerrard/Nolan anymore. So maybe asking the players who they respect for leadership isn't a bad idea.


----------



## fundy (Sep 27, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbf many managers now say they don't see the captain as too important a role. 

Southgate has mentioned it many times. Not many clubs have a Gerrard/Nolan anymore. So maybe asking the players who they respect for leadership isn't a bad idea.
		
Click to expand...


thats great up to the point where the squad still has a distinct shortage of leaders and theres rumoured to be a split in the dressing room, let alone choosing a guy most wouldnt have in their starting XI 

a gerrard or a nolan? id rather have an Adams or a Viera plse


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 27, 2019)

fundy said:



			thats great up to the point where the squad still has a distinct shortage of leaders and theres rumoured to be a split in the dressing room, let alone choosing a guy most wouldnt have in their starting XI 

a gerrard or a nolan? id rather have an Adams or a Viera plse 

Click to expand...

I'll give you Adams. My point was just that gone are the days of the local lad being the hero. 

He woukdnt be in my 11 either tbh (at saints) ðŸ˜¬ but we've had a club captain before and then the match day captain was anyone...


----------



## 4LEX (Sep 27, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			You know what - I think OGS might not be a very good manager.
		
Click to expand...

He's possibly the worst manager in the history of the Premier League.

Qualifications........managed the best team in Norway for a bit. Failed at Cardiff and then back to Norwary. That CV wouldn't even get him a Championship job but United saw fit to give him the toughest job in world football 

He's changed nothing tactically. Man Utd are still a counter attacking side with no quality in midfield or upfront. The difference was Mourinho was able (at first) to use his tactical genius to overcome the lack of quality and win trophies and qualify for the CL. Mourinho was actually a big success in those two years, it was only after his transfer plans in 2018 were denied by Woodward that he sulked and things went downhill. That was Woodward's mistake and the results since has been woeful. 

I've said it before but OGS will be gone soon and Poch will get the job as he's clearly getting bored of having his hands tied at Spurs. It's nailed on.


----------



## fundy (Sep 27, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I'll give you Adams. My point was just that gone are the days of the local lad being the hero. 

He woukdnt be in my 11 either tbh (at saints) ðŸ˜¬ but we've had a club captain before and then the match day captain was anyone...
		
Click to expand...

it gets better, hes named his "5 captains" now, and one of them is Ozil, hes just taking the piss now


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 27, 2019)

fundy said:



			it gets better, hes named his "5 captains" now, and one of them is Ozil, hes just taking the piss now
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s part of the reason I couldnâ€™t believe it.


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 27, 2019)

4LEX said:



			He's possibly the worst manager in the history of the Premier League.

Qualifications........managed the best team in Norway for a bit. Failed at Cardiff and then back to Norwary. That CV wouldn't even get him a Championship job but United saw fit to give him the toughest job in world football 

He's changed nothing tactically. Man Utd are still a counter attacking side with no quality in midfield or upfront. The difference was Mourinho was able (at first) to use his tactical genius to overcome the lack of quality and win trophies and qualify for the CL. Mourinho was actually a big success in those two years, it was only after his transfer plans in 2018 were denied by Woodward that he sulked and things went downhill. That was Woodward's mistake and the results since has been woeful.

I've said it before but OGS will be gone soon and Poch will get the job as he's clearly getting bored of having his hands tied at Spurs. It's nailed on.
		
Click to expand...

Is Poch a busted flush in the Pep/Klopp era?


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 27, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Is Poch a busted flush in the Pep/Klopp era?
		
Click to expand...

Not yet, but needs to win trophies soon, and manage a big club. Time is running out. He needs to show some ambition, and deliver some tangible results. Getting Spurs to where they are, fair job, but it should always be a stepping stone to a bigger club. ( Madrid, Barca, Man U, Bayern, Juve, etc).


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			The fact he had the players vote shows just how weak he is.
		
Click to expand...

Man City players chose their captain, is Pep weak?


----------



## Kellfire (Sep 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Man City players chose their captain, is Pep weak?
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s a weak moved hidden by their success.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 28, 2019)

Think we got lucky there.
Schoolboy error from the keeper ,you are taught to get your knee down behind your hands !not do what he did.
Sheffield played well but lack composure in front of goal.
Donâ€™t know whatâ€™s wrong with Salah but thatâ€™s a few games now heâ€™s been really poor.

Still donâ€™t understand the offside rule.
Guy miles offside so VVD got to play the ball and they get a throw in ?


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 28, 2019)

Nice to get the game won, but not the best of performances. I hope City snot Everton later now.


----------



## fundy (Sep 28, 2019)

VAR having a cracking first half up and down the prem it seems


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Man City players chose their captain, is Pep weak?
		
Click to expand...

Could be good man management to let the players choose who they want.
Did he give a reason for it?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 28, 2019)

fundy said:



			VAR having a cracking first half up and down the prem it seems
		
Click to expand...

Thought Liverpool should have had a pen.
Bit soft but by the rules a pen.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Nice to get the game won, but not the best of performances. I hope City snot Everton later now.
		
Click to expand...

I fancy Everton to give them a game.
But have been spectacularly wrong in the past about Everton.
If Richarlason could finish he would be a great player imo.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 28, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I fancy Everton to give them a game.
But have been spectacularly wrong in the past about Everton.
If Richarlason could stay on his feet he would be a great player imo.
		
Click to expand...

Fixed ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 28, 2019)

Spurs obviously trying very hard to bottle a routine win against Southampton. Not loving this season so far. At least Kane is still good.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Fixed ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

That may be part of his problem .
But he seems to rush his chances and miss to many.
In a close game thatâ€™s a win or lose.
He has everything imo except that.
Prob score a couple today now lol.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 28, 2019)

Prem strikers should watch that finish from Coleman, fantastic.
Pity CL took it but thatâ€™s his job to make sure.
City look good going forward but awful at the back.
Need to pressure the CBs more


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 28, 2019)

Few VAR calls in the west ham game today 

I thought the first goal they overturned to say onside was actually offside at time but fair enough 

2-2 that will do


----------



## fundy (Sep 28, 2019)

City dont half get away with murder from the refs!!!

As for Zinchenko, hed look at home in our back 4!!!


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 28, 2019)

At least the bloooooooss can fully concentrate on supporting City now ðŸ¤­


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 28, 2019)

Andy Hinchcliffe is a little bit harsh on Pickford, he's only got little arms ðŸ¤­


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Andy Hinchcliffe is a little bit harsh on Pickford, he's only got little arms ðŸ¤­
		
Click to expand...

Got to be up there as one of the worst keepers in the league


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 28, 2019)

Game of two keepers ,Everton had chances but Ederson was very good.
But Pickford should have saved the second, put his team on the back foot.
Good game though.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 28, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Got to be up there as one of the worst keepers in the league
		
Click to expand...

He's Ingurlands no.1


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			He's Ingurlands no.1
		
Click to expand...

I'm still hoping Pope takes over that mantle now he's a regular starter. Pickford is very poor aside from his kicking.


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			He's Ingurlands no.1
		
Click to expand...

We haven't had s solid number 1 since seaman 

James was ok best of a bad bunch


----------



## Papas1982 (Sep 28, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			We haven't had s solid number 1 since seaman 

James was ok best of a bad bunch
		
Click to expand...

I felt Robinson was harshly treated. Effectively dropped for a ball hitting a divot. 

Back in the day we had competition and keepers didn't make intl debut till close to 30. Now they don't seem to have the mental strength to get over the mistakes all keepers make.


----------



## Bazzatron (Sep 28, 2019)

Boy was that win needed.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 28, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I'm still hoping Pope takes over that mantle now he's a regular starter. Pickford is very poor aside from his kicking.
		
Click to expand...

I donâ€™t even reckon his kicking is very good.

Stealing a living.


----------



## davemc1 (Sep 28, 2019)

Another good 3pts, another bad performance. 

We need Alison back, canâ€™t afford to drop any more points!


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 28, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Another good 3pts, another bad performance.

We need Alison back, canâ€™t afford to drop any more points!
		
Click to expand...

When's he back?

Another week goes by another Watford loss.

They are seriously in danger


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 29, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			When's he back?

Another week goes by another Watford loss.

They are seriously in danger
		
Click to expand...

Can't understand why they're so poor all of a sudden. They didn't strengthen their defence enough obviously, but they didn't really lose any key players either? Besides Deeney being injured. It's essentially the same team that finished top half, what the hell has happened over summer??


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 29, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Can't understand why they're so poor all of a sudden. They didn't strengthen their defence enough obviously, but they didn't really lose any key players either? Besides Deeney being injured. It's essentially the same team that finished top half, what the hell has happened over summer??
		
Click to expand...

Massively over achieved last season 

No sability at the club with the constant management changes 

Built the team around deeney who without him they don't perform 

Been coming for ages


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 29, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Massively over achieved last season

*No sability at the club with the constant management changes*

Built the team around deeney who without him they don't perform

Been coming for ages
		
Click to expand...

Well that was the case, but Gracia was actually there a while and still in place at the start of this season, so that doesn't go anywhere to explain the dip.

Perhaps that's true with Deeney, but Welbeck should be a decent replacement now they've got him fit. The only area I thought they were weak was defence really but they got  away with that last season somehow. Bringing in a Championship clogger such as Craig Dawson wasn't anywhere near enough.


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 29, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Well that was the case, but Gracia was actually there a while and still in place at the start of this season, so that doesn't go anywhere to explain the dip.

Perhaps that's true with Deeney, but Welbeck should be a decent replacement now they've got him fit. The only area I thought they were weak was defence really but they got  away with that last season somehow. Bringing in a Championship clogger such as Craig Dawson wasn't anywhere near enough.
		
Click to expand...

He was there 18 months
Their MO is to sign a manager and live off his first season syndrome like every team that comes up seems to get then suffers second season once their tactics are found out. Soon as this happens sack him, new manager and repeat 

It's like this time they couldn't find anyone new so went back to an old manager


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 29, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			He was there 18 months
Their MO is to sign a manager and live off his first season syndrome like every team that comes up seems to get then suffers second season once their tactics are found out. Soon as this happens sack him, new manager and repeat

It's like this time they couldn't find anyone new so went back to an old manager
		
Click to expand...

Certainly true that going back to Flores was extremely bizarre. He doesn't seem to have brought any new ideas with him unsurprisingly.


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 29, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Certainly true that going back to Flores was extremely bizarre. He doesn't seem to have brought any new ideas with him unsurprisingly. 

Click to expand...

Their next manager needs to be big Sam, only way their staying up


----------



## dronfield (Sep 29, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Think we got lucky there.
Schoolboy error from the keeper ,you are taught to get your knee down behind your hands !not do what he did.
Sheffield played well but lack composure in front of goal.
Donâ€™t know whatâ€™s wrong with Salah but thatâ€™s a few games now heâ€™s been really poor.

Still donâ€™t understand the offside rule.
Guy miles offside so VVD got to play the ball and they get a throw in ?
		
Click to expand...

I was at the match,  and thought we gave Liverpool a good game. Liverpool as expected had most of the possession, but were a bit below par and i thought we probably deserved a draw - which would have happened had our goalie not made an horrendous mistake. Liverpool had the slightly better chances, but the Blades also created and missed some too, including one from Clarke late on where he def should have scored.

Our performances so far are giving confidence that we can stay up - despite being favourites for relegation.

Rich


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 29, 2019)

dronfield said:



			I was at the match,  and thought we gave Liverpool a good game. Liverpool as expected had most of the possession, but were a bit below par and i thought we probably deserved a draw - which would have happened had our goalie not made an horrendous mistake. Liverpool had the slightly better chances, but the Blades also created and missed some too, including one from Clarke late on where he def should have scored.

Our performances so far are giving confidence that we can stay up - despite being favourites for relegation.

Rich
		
Click to expand...

Yes I agree with you completely.
Think the Clarke one might have been offside though???

Liked your managers interview after the match.
I certainly wouldnâ€™t like a telling off from him.

I have watched you when you have been on TV and think you have played very well.
But you canâ€™t make errors like that to often.
All keepers do sometimes .Felt sorry for the lad as he played very well .


----------



## dronfield (Sep 29, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I agree with you completely.
Think the Clarke one might have been offside though???

Liked your managers interview after the match.
I certainly wouldnâ€™t like a telling off from him.

I have watched you when you have been on TV and think you have played very well.
But you canâ€™t make errors like that to often.
All keepers do sometimes .Felt sorry for the lad as he played very well .
		
Click to expand...

Yes i think the Clarke effort might well have been ruled offside by VAR (dont think linesman flagged at time).

Most of our team have never played at this level before and so learning "on the job" - unfortunately individual errors, whether defensive or forwards missing chances, are costing us vital points.

Big game for us next sat away at Watford.


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 29, 2019)

For the Spurs boys on here, I here rumours of a dressing room split, similar to the Terry / Bridges incident at Chelsea. I am not naming the two players, as that is not fair to GM. Any truth in it?


----------



## SteveW86 (Sep 29, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			For the Spurs boys on here, I here rumours of a dressing room split, similar to the Terry / Bridges incident at Chelsea. I am not naming the two players, as that is not fair to GM. Any truth in it?
		
Click to expand...

Just did a search to find the story. Not many people believing it on â€œThe fighting cockâ€.....though I donâ€™t know if that is a decent Spurs forum.

Be interesting if it is true


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 29, 2019)

Horrible tackle in the Toon game, a rightful red card. Newcastle look poor again, genuine contenders for relegation.


----------



## Dando (Sep 29, 2019)

Not sure itâ€™s actually â€œsuper Sundayâ€


----------



## Jensen (Sep 29, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			For the Spurs boys on here, I here rumours of a dressing room split, similar to the Terry / Bridges incident at Chelsea. I am not naming the two players, as that is not fair to GM. Any truth in it?
		
Click to expand...

Don't name them then, just state their initials. 
Don't see how it's unfair to GM.
What's the name of the woman getting shagged ðŸ˜„


----------



## Lilyhawk (Sep 29, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Don't name them then, just state their initials.
Don't see how it's unfair to GM.
What's the name of the woman getting shagged ðŸ˜„
		
Click to expand...

Verthongen tried/has shagged Eriksens missus. Kane caused the black eye Jan was sporting early in the season.


----------



## Jensen (Sep 29, 2019)

Lilyhawk said:



			Verthongen tried/has shagged Eriksens missus. Kane caused the black eye Jan was sporting early in the season.
		
Click to expand...

So that explains why Jan was out of favour then. 
Well it seems like we will lose Eriksen, probably in January ðŸ˜©


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 29, 2019)

Jensen said:



			So that explains why Jan was out of favour then. 
Well it seems like we will lose Eriksen, probably in January ðŸ˜©
		
Click to expand...

Better in January for something than June for nothing? Keep him all year if he is performing but I get the impression that isn't happening. What would you do?


----------



## Lilyhawk (Sep 29, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Better in January for something than June for nothing? Keep him all year if he is performing but I get the impression that isn't happening. What would you do?
		
Click to expand...

He shouldâ€™ve left during the summer, but guess the bigger challenges didnâ€™t want to pay for his services. Heâ€™s been awful since last Christmas to be honest, so not surprised the offers didnâ€™t come in.


----------



## Jensen (Sep 29, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Better in January for something than June for nothing? Keep him all year if he is performing but I get the impression that isn't happening. What would you do?
		
Click to expand...

Don't want him to go, however  best for the club to sell and get something for him.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 29, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Horrible tackle in the Toon game, a rightful red card. Newcastle look poor again, genuine contenders for relegation.
		
Click to expand...

Was it a red card tackle ? Seen just the one reply and looked like he got the ball clean without jumping or studs up but followed through to the player - seemed a very strong tackle ?


----------



## fundy (Sep 29, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Was it a red card tackle ? Seen just the one reply and looked like he got the ball clean without jumping or studs up but followed through to the player - seemed a very strong tackle ?
		
Click to expand...

10 years ago its not even a foul! i struggle with these being called horrible tackles, he plays the ball at force and the follow through is deemed dangerous, is his foot supposed to stop the second he kicks the ball? i know by the letter of the law its a red card, its the law i dont agree with


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 29, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Was it a red card tackle ? Seen just the one reply and looked like he got the ball clean without jumping or studs up but followed through to the player - seemed a very strong tackle ?
		
Click to expand...

You need to see it again. It was a leg breaker, even Souness said that and he know a leg breaker when he sees it. 

He was off the ground, straight legged, studs hit the leg well above the ankle. He made sure he followed through with his full weight, 'putting one on him'. It was a tackle commonplace in the 70's but not any more.


----------



## Lilyhawk (Sep 29, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Was it a red card tackle ? Seen just the one reply and looked like he got the ball clean without jumping or studs up but followed through to the player - seemed a very strong tackle ?
		
Click to expand...




fundy said:



			10 years ago its not even a foul! i struggle with these being called horrible tackles, he plays the ball at force and the follow through is deemed dangerous, is his foot supposed to stop the second he kicks the ball? i know by the letter of the law its a red card, its the law i dont agree with 

Click to expand...

What Iâ€™ve learned since moving here some 5 years ago, is that that kind of tackle and the subsequent red card could/would only be questioned by English people.

As clear a red card it can be, if you ask me that is.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 29, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You need to see it again. It was a leg breaker, even Souness said that and he know a leg breaker when he sees it.

He was off the ground, straight legged, studs hit the leg well above the ankle. He made sure he followed through with his full weight, 'putting one on him'. It was a tackle commonplace in the 70's but not any more.
		
Click to expand...

So how is he supposed to get the ball or tackle the player in that situation? He doesnâ€™t jump and gets the ball clean , itâ€™s not illegal to tackle straight legged and how is he supposed to get the ball without going through to the player ?


----------



## Robin Hood (Sep 29, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Horrible tackle in the Toon game, a rightful red card. Newcastle look poor again, genuine contenders for relegation.
		
Click to expand...

Agree
Agree
Agree
Probably
"Toon Toon, Black n White Army"


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 29, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So how is he supposed to get the ball or tackle the player in that situation? He doesnâ€™t jump and gets the ball clean , itâ€™s not illegal to tackle straight legged and how is he supposed to get the ball without going through to the player ?
		
Click to expand...

He has to change his technique or stay on his feet or his angle of attack. He has to stay in control, keep his studs below shin height when he connects with the player. Take your pick.

I heard a manager on the radio recently, can't remember which one, pointing out that most red cards for tackles are for players off their feet. He discourages his players from going off their feet to make tackles for that very reason. How often does your beloved VVD go to ground? Hardly ever is the answer. If he ever does his angle will be such that he doesn't go through the player, certainly not front on.

What Haydyn can't do is exactly what he did do. It was a pub league tackle.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 29, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He has to change his technique or stay on his feet or his angle of attack. He has to stay in control, keep his studs below shin height when he connects with the player. Take your pick.

I heard a manager on the radio recently, can't remember which one, pointing out that most red cards for tackles are for players off their feet. He discourages his players from going off their feet to make tackles for that very reason. How often does your beloved VVD go to ground? Hardly ever is the answer. If he ever does his angle will be such that he doesn't go through the player, certainly not front on.

What Haydyn can't do is exactly what he did do. It was a pub league tackle.
		
Click to expand...

If he didnâ€™t tackle or take that ball then the player has gone past him , yes itâ€™s strong and forceful but then itâ€™s supposed to be a physical sport , seen words like â€œhorrific , disgraceful, horror tackle , disgustingâ€ being used to describe the tackle and for me itâ€™s none of them - he got the ball cleanly and because itâ€™s a forceful tackle itâ€™s hard to stop yourself and goes into the ball - man and ball they used to call it. Itâ€™s not late , or high or two footed , or from behind. Guess strong forceful tackles are not allowed now - very soft red card for me and a tackle that 5 years ago would have been applauded.


----------



## Old Skier (Sep 29, 2019)

IMO it was a tackle with intent, the intent was to get the ball and make sure you got the player. Definitely an old style 70's tackle. Surprised the leg wasn't broken to be honest.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 29, 2019)

LP we will have to disagree on this.


----------



## Old Skier (Sep 29, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			LP we will have to disagree on this.
		
Click to expand...

That's his right but it doesn't necessarily make it right. All based on opinion.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 29, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			That's his right but it doesn't necessarily make it right. All based on opinion.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely. No point going backwards and forwards making the same point over and over though. I've made mine enough. LP is perfectly entitled to see it incorrectly,  ahem I mean differently ðŸ˜. 

LP, don't worry, Tommy Smith's legacy wont be damaged by these tackles now being straight reds, he was allowed to do it back then. You don't have to back them.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 29, 2019)

Perhaps 25 years ago that tackle would have passed with little or no comment although I suspect his fellow players would have  noted it.

However,  it was clearly dangerous and showed no consideration for the well being of the  other player, particularly when you see  where he made contact (just below the knee).

Current laws of the game define it as reckless and endangering an opponent. Therefore a red card.

In answer to the question "What is he supposed to do?" the answer is don't make the tackle if you cannot do it without recklessly endangering your opponent.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 29, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Absolutely. No point going backwards and forwards making the same point over and over though. I've made mine enough. LP is perfectly entitled to see it incorrectly,  ahem I mean differently ðŸ˜.

*LP, don't worry, Tommy Smith's legacy wont be damaged by these tackles now being straight reds, he was allowed to do it back then. You don't have to back them.*

Click to expand...

What ?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 29, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What ?
		
Click to expand...

Attempt at humour. It was a tackle Smith would have made regularly during his career. I insinuated you were defending Haydyn because it was reminiscent of a Smith tackle. Actually,  if I have to explain it.......................


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 29, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



*Attempt at humour. *It was a tackle Smith would have made regularly during his career. I insinuated you were defending Haydyn because it was reminiscent of a Smith tackle. Actually,  if I have to explain it.......................
		
Click to expand...

Ah thatâ€™s the problem - surely for it to be humour itâ€™s need to be funny ? But as you have explained it - I can now confirm .. itâ€™s definatly not humour ðŸ‘


----------



## Old Skier (Sep 29, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Attempt at humour. It was a tackle Smith would have made regularly during his career. I insinuated you were defending Haydyn because it was reminiscent of a Smith tackle. Actually,  if I have to explain it.......................
		
Click to expand...

You should have explained who Tommy Sith was


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 29, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			You should have explained who Tommy Sith was 

Click to expand...

I shouldn't really have to explain the history of a club to a fan though, should I? ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£


----------



## Pin-seeker (Sep 29, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ah thatâ€™s the problem - surely for it to be humour itâ€™s need to be funny ? But as you have explained it - I can now confirm .. itâ€™s definatly not humour ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Blimey chill out Phillip


----------



## GG26 (Sep 29, 2019)

I was around 40 yards from the tackle, can't believe that you are trying to justify that LP.  Could have ended Praet's career.  I have no doubt that you would have seen it differently if the challenge had been on a Liverpool player.

Exciting start to the season at the King Power.  Absolutely soaked walking to the ground and spent most of the match drying out, but five goals certainly want a long way to forgetting the weather.


----------



## Beezerk (Sep 29, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			IMO it was a tackle with intent, the intent was to get the ball and make sure you got the player. Definitely an old style 70's tackle. Surprised the leg wasn't broken to be honest.
		
Click to expand...

Just seen it, proper shocker. He's too far away and at the wrong angle to win the ball without hurting the other player, he knows what he's doing IMO.


----------



## Beezerk (Sep 29, 2019)




----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 29, 2019)

That still pic makes the tackle look a 100x worse than it was, which was pretty bad anyway.

Red all day long


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 29, 2019)

Beezerk said:



View attachment 28294




Click to expand...

Great tackle apparently


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 29, 2019)

Seen the challenge on MOTD just now, it's a shocker. Stonewall red. You can't fly in with that velocity when you know full well it will send your follow through into the opponent's leg. No question about it.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 29, 2019)

Just seen it .
Deffo red and I like a good tackle but thatâ€™s to high.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 29, 2019)

Funny how Phil saw it differently when it was Kompany making the challenge isn't it?

https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/s...&c[nodes][0]=11&c[users]=Liverpoolphil&o=date


----------



## Tashyboy (Sep 30, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Funny how Phil saw it differently when it was Kompany making the challenge isn't it?

https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/s...&c[nodes][0]=11&c[users]=Liverpoolphil&o=date

Click to expand...

ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ bad man


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 30, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Funny how Phil saw it differently when it was Kompany making the challenge isn't it?

https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/s...&c[nodes][0]=11&c[users]=Liverpoolphil&o=date

Click to expand...

Do you want to bookmark that for future use during the season? Save you searching again when it will inevitably be required ðŸ˜„


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 30, 2019)

Dreadful tackle, and 100% a red. Not sure how it's defendable tbh, could have done some serious damage.


----------



## Piece (Sep 30, 2019)

I need to address some items...



pauljames87 said:



			Massively over achieved last season
		
Click to expand...

Stayed up comfortably since we re-joined the Prem, so don't see how finishing lower mid-table is 'massively over achieving'



pauljames87 said:



			No sability at the club with the constant management
		
Click to expand...

In fact its the opposite. We have a structure in place that allows coach (not manager, BTW) changes without direct affect on the club. It's a high reason why we've stayed up comfortably.



pauljames87 said:



			Built the team around deeney who without him they don't perform
		
Click to expand...

There is some truth in this. Last few years we've mixed up our play, often going long to Deeney. However, we have got to find another identity post-Deeney and this is what we are struggling with now.



pauljames87 said:



			Been coming for ages
		
Click to expand...

The lack of investment in the defence has meant it has been coming for a while. I called this out several years ago. I am hoping in blind faith that we reverse our usual and have a strong second half to the season.



Orikoru said:



			Well that was the case, but Gracia was actually there a while and still in place at the start of this season, so that doesn't go anywhere to explain the dip.
Perhaps that's true with Deeney, but Welbeck should be a decent replacement now they've got him fit. The only area I thought they were weak was defence really but they got  away with that last season somehow. Bringing in a Championship clogger such as Craig Dawson wasn't anywhere near enough.
		
Click to expand...

We dipped that crucial 10% after the semi-final win. It hasn't been the same since then. The disappointing thing is that we started the season the same as we ended it, so no real surprise we are where we are if we are doing the same things and being complacent. We can't keep relying on the attack bailing us out when the defence is so poor. And yes, Dawson is/was never the answer. 99% of WFC fans want/ed big money spent on two quality centre halves as a minimum. This has to change in the next transfer window or QSF turns Dawson into VVD overnight.



pauljames87 said:



			He was there 18 months
Their MO is to sign a manager and live off his first season syndrome like every team that comes up seems to get then suffers second season once their tactics are found out. Soon as this happens sack him, new manager and repeat

It's like this time they couldn't find anyone new so went back to an old manager
		
Click to expand...

As I've said above, JG and QSF to me are very similar. Being honest QSF is a strange choice. He is similar to JG in my eyes, but both have been handicapped by a poor defence. We have to change how we play and the personnel. Currently we are playing the same way and expecting a different result. QSF was brought in because of "unfinished business" and to "sort out the defence". I'm not convinced to put it mildly...happy to be proven wrong.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 30, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do you want to bookmark that for future use during the season? Save you searching again when it will inevitably be required ðŸ˜„
		
Click to expand...

Point made I think.  Who knew that the colour of the player's shirt can influence your entire attitude towards tackling?


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 30, 2019)

Piece said:



			The lack of investment in the defence has meant it has been coming for a while. I called this out several years ago. I am hoping in blind faith that we reverse our usual and have a strong second half to the season.



We dipped that crucial 10% after the semi-final win. It hasn't been the same since then. The disappointing thing is that we started the season the same as we ended it, so no real surprise we are where we are if we are doing the same things and being complacent. We can't keep relying on the attack bailing us out when the defence is so poor. And yes, Dawson is/was never the answer. 99% of WFC fans want/ed big money spent on two quality centre halves as a minimum. This has to change in the next transfer window or QSF turns Dawson into VVD overnight.



As I've said above, JG and QSF to me are very similar. Being honest QSF is a strange choice. He is similar to JG in my eyes, but both have been handicapped by a poor defence. We have to change how we play and the personnel. Currently we are playing the same way and expecting a different result. QSF was brought in because of "unfinished business" and to "sort out the defence". I'm not convinced to put it mildly...happy to be proven wrong.
		
Click to expand...

I'd certainly say defence is the major issue - hardly surprising given you've conceded 20 times already. I can't understand how Mariappa was is getting games when you've been back in the Prem several years. Cathcart I would describe as 'reasonable' and yet he's your best option. Holebas is 35 and a walking yellow card. I think in midfield as well, while Capoue and Doucoure are good players, I wouldn't really say either of them is a traditional defence holding player offering a great deal of protection to the back line. Chalobah seems to be taking an age to develop, or perhaps just isn't being given enough chances? Or maybe he's not really that sort of player either? Anyway, I'd say you need three players minimum in Jan - a Premier League CB who's not already 30, a good left back, and a defensive minded holding midfielder.


----------



## Piece (Sep 30, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I'd certainly say defence is the major issue - hardly surprising given you've conceded 20 times already. I can't understand how Mariappa was is getting games when you've been back in the Prem several years. Cathcart I would describe as 'reasonable' and yet he's your best option. Holebas is 35 and a walking yellow card. I think in midfield as well, while Capoue and Doucoure are good players, I wouldn't really say either of them is a traditional defence holding player offering a great deal of protection to the back line. Chalobah seems to be taking an age to develop, or perhaps just isn't being given enough chances? Or maybe he's not really that sort of player either? Anyway, I'd say you need three players minimum in Jan - a Premier League CB who's not already 30, a good left back, and a defensive minded holding midfielder.
		
Click to expand...

Mariappa is, was, never in a million years a centre half of Prem quality. He is a Champ defender, at best. All our centre halves are of the same standard meaning not quite good enough for mid table Prem league. Holebas is not a QSF favourite and I think he will disappear soon. He's lost a yard of pace and his delivery is now poor. Caps and Doucs were doing a three man job and has taken its toll. I've been shouting for a three man holding-type midfield, the extra being Cleverley or Chalobah. Clevs has been added very recently but in a no. 10 role...not what we need. Chalobah hasn't been given many chances, presumably because he hasn't been fully fit...no excuse now and I'd like to see him in.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 30, 2019)

Piece said:



			Mariappa is, was, never in a million years a centre half of Prem quality. He is a Champ defender, at best. All our centre halves are of the same standard meaning not quite good enough for mid table Prem league. Holebas is not a QSF favourite and I think he will disappear soon. He's lost a yard of pace and his delivery is now poor. Caps and Doucs were doing a three man job and has taken its toll. I've been shouting for a three man holding-type midfield, the extra being Cleverley or Chalobah. Clevs has been added but in a no 10 role...not what we need. Chalobah hasn't been given many chances, presumably because he hasn't been fully fit...no excuse now and I'd like to see him in.
		
Click to expand...

have to win the next home games I think against Sheffield United and Bournemouth. Clearly some defensive issues and reminiscent of Fulham last year. Some decent players but a lack of defensive leadership and fortitude proved expensive and impossible to keep having to get 2-3 goals a game to make up for the number shipped at the back.


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 30, 2019)

They would be fine if they played Arsenal every week.


----------



## Piece (Sep 30, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			have to win the next home games I think against Sheffield United and Bournemouth. Clearly some defensive issues and reminiscent of Fulham last year. Some decent players but a lack of defensive leadership and fortitude proved expensive and impossible to keep having to get 2-3 goals a game to make up for the number shipped at the back.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think we "have to win" these games. I'm not a fan of this expression as it heaps to much emphasis on one particular game. I'd rather see it as another chance to get things moving in the right direction. If we played well and do the right things, then the results will start to turn. Sheff Utd will be tough and I think we may lose but I'm looking at the performance and what we are trying to do rather than the result. And yes, I know its a results business.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 30, 2019)

Piece said:



			I don't think we "have to win" these games. I'm not a fan of this expression as it heaps to much emphasis on one particular game. I'd rather see it as another chance to get things moving in the right direction. If we played well and do the right things, then the results will start to turn. Sheff Utd will be tough and I think we may lose but I'm looking at the performance and what we are trying to do rather than the result. And yes, I know its a results business. 

Click to expand...

No, you definitely have to win. You're already 3 points adrift of the rest of the teams, and Sheff Utd being a newly promoted side makes it a must win to turn things around. Every week you don't win it gets harder and harder. If you only get 1 or 2 points from the next two games you could be in the drop zone for a long, long time.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 30, 2019)

Piece said:



			I don't think we "have to win" these games. I'm not a fan of this expression as it heaps to much emphasis on one particular game. I'd rather see it as another chance to get things moving in the right direction. If we played well and do the right things, then the results will start to turn. Sheff Utd will be tough and I think we may lose but I'm looking at the performance and what we are trying to do rather than the result. And yes, I know its a results business. 

Click to expand...

OK, "have to win" is a cliched phrase and I take your point but it needs a win somewhere to change momentum and self-belief and home games are vitally important for picking up points towards any survival target. Can't see you getting anything away to Spurs (but there again not overly convinced by them at present) and just know from watching Fulham lose more and more touch how hard it is to then string a run of results together. I happen to think there is a mini league from Southampton down and enough potential to pick up point from those sides to get yourself safe


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 30, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Point made I think.  Who knew that the colour of the player's shirt can influence your entire attitude towards tackling? 

Click to expand...

Iâ€™m not sure what â€œpointâ€ you think you have made but lll clear a few things up for you 

As I initially stated I saw a quick replay of the incident and from that it looked a clean but hard tackle hence my questions , I also heard the same sort of opinion on various phone ins hence asking was it actually a red card. 

As for the Kompany tackle - from what I remember he was off the ground two footed with one foot going over the ball connecting with Mane was it ? 

Now I have seen a report from Robbie Savage who has said something along the lines of what Fundy said and also what i questioned , also heard the guys on Talksport again this morning discussing the merits of the red card and questioning tackles on the ground where people canâ€™t stop their follow through.

Now looking at the still above it doesnâ€™t look great and thatâ€™s the follow through because of the force , you see a number of those stills after forceful tackle 

Iâ€™m watching MOTD 2 tonight so will no doubt have a better look at it - but either way itâ€™s just an opinion.


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 30, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1178343073341947904
It's a shocker. Red all day.


----------



## Old Skier (Sep 30, 2019)

I think that's the closest we'll get to a Boris style "I got that a little wrong"


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 30, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1144121555749933057
This is the Kompany one for comparison, at least I think it is (ignore the dreadful caption). Very similar, impact of the Hayden one looks worse as the Leicester lad was in no position to attempt to hurdle it. The 2nd replay angle makes it look like a real leg breaker.


----------



## Piece (Sep 30, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			No, you definitely have to win. You're already 3 points adrift of the rest of the teams, and Sheff Utd being a newly promoted side makes it a must win to turn things around. Every week you don't win it gets harder and harder. If you only get 1 or 2 points from the next two games you could be in the drop zone for a long, long time.
		
Click to expand...

No, disagree. Newcastle and West Ham showed last season you can start poorly and recover quickly. We shouldn't put unnecessary pressure where it's not really needed. A must-win game is needing to win to stay up!


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Iâ€™m not sure what â€œpointâ€ you think you have made but lll clear a few things up for you

As I initially stated I saw a quick replay of the incident and from that it looked a clean but hard tackle hence my questions , I also heard the same sort of opinion on various phone ins hence asking was it actually a red card.

*As for the Kompany tackle - from what I remember he was off the ground two footed with one foot going over the ball connecting with Mane was it ?*

Now I have seen a report from Robbie Savage who has said something along the lines of what Fundy said and also what i questioned , also heard the guys on Talksport again this morning discussing the merits of the red card and questioning tackles on the ground where people canâ€™t stop their follow through.

Now looking at the still above it doesnâ€™t look great and thatâ€™s the follow through because of the force , you see a number of those stills after forceful tackle

Iâ€™m watching MOTD 2 tonight so will no doubt have a better look at it - but either way itâ€™s just an opinion.
		
Click to expand...

Well the best defence I can offer you is that you haven't remembered it perfectly. Kompany's tackle was slightly lower to the ground I would say, while Hayden's was high and subsequently quite a bit worse - although it wasn't on a Liverpool player I suppose.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 30, 2019)

Dan2501 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1144121555749933057
This is the Kompany one for comparison, at least I think it is (ignore the dreadful caption). Very similar, impact of the Hayden one looks worse as the Leicester lad was in no position to attempt to hurdle it. The 2nd replay angle makes it look like a real leg breaker.
		
Click to expand...

Ok seen that now and ill be on the same page as Fundy 

It looks bad because he has gone in with a lot of force with his leg to get the ball , intent i guess will be key and he certainly looked like he really wanted to. The force makes it the red in the rules now because it wasnt studs up or jumping or two footed etc but it becomes dangerous because of the force the player used

Below is exactly my feelings as well



fundy said:



			10 years ago its not even a foul! i struggle with these being called horrible tackles, he plays the ball at force and the follow through is deemed dangerous, is his foot supposed to stop the second he kicks the ball? i know by the letter of the law its a red card, its the law i dont agree with 

Click to expand...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 30, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Well the best defence I can offer you is that you haven't remembered it perfectly. Kompany's tackle was slightly lower to the ground I would say, while Hayden's was high and subsequently quite a bit worse - although it wasn't on a Liverpool player I suppose. 

Click to expand...

Maybe you need to stop trying to be a smart arse and have a look at both the videos - even the still above shows Kompany jumping in the air to go at the ball where as from the video Dan posted Hayden goes into the ball not from jumping in the air but the force brings him up into the player. Either way its a shame that when you arrive back any sort of mature debate goes out the window.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ok seen that now and ill be on the same page as Fundy

It looks bad because he has gone in with a lot of force with his leg to get the ball , intent i guess will be key and he certainly looked like he really wanted to. The force makes it the red in the rules now because it wasnt studs up or jumping or two footed etc but it becomes dangerous because of the force the player used

Below is exactly my feelings as well
		
Click to expand...

You both think the rules should allow players to endanger their opponents with potential leg breaks? Interesting opinion that.


----------



## Orikoru (Sep 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe you need to stop trying to be a smart arse and have a look at both the videos - even the still above shows Kompany jumping in the air to go at the ball where as from the video Dan posted Hayden goes into the ball not from jumping in the air but the force brings him up into the player. Either way its a shame that when you arrive back any sort of mature debate goes out the window.
		
Click to expand...

Both were not great but Kompany's was a yellow for me while Hayden's was a stonewall red. Kompany actually made the challenge with one foot not two, and it was certainly lower to the ground, just mistimed. For you to have demanded a red for that but say Hayden's should be allowed is backward at best.


----------



## pauljames87 (Sep 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Iâ€™m not sure what â€œpointâ€ you think you have made but lll clear a few things up for you

As I initially stated I saw a quick replay of the incident and from that it looked a clean but hard tackle hence my questions , I also heard the same sort of opinion on various phone ins hence asking was it actually a red card.

As for the Kompany tackle - from what I remember he was off the ground two footed with one foot going over the ball connecting with Mane was it ?

Now I have seen a report from Robbie Savage who has said something along the lines of what Fundy said and also what i questioned , also heard the guys on Talksport again this morning discussing the merits of the red card and questioning tackles on the ground where people canâ€™t stop their follow through.

Now looking at the still above it doesnâ€™t look great and thatâ€™s the follow through because of the force , you see a number of those stills after forceful tackle

Iâ€™m watching MOTD 2 tonight so will no doubt have a better look at it - but either way itâ€™s just an opinion.
		
Click to expand...

Look out Phil is reversing


----------



## Pin-seeker (Sep 30, 2019)

Imagine â€œdebatingâ€ when you havenâ€™t actually seen it properly ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
Then going on what the phone ins say ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 30, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Point made I think.  Who knew that the colour of the player's shirt can influence your entire attitude towards tackling? 

Click to expand...

Or diving!
Think thatâ€™s always been the case.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 30, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Both were not great but Kompany's was a yellow for me while Hayden's was a stonewall red. Kompany actually made the challenge with one foot not two, and it was certainly lower to the ground, just mistimed. For you to have demanded a red for that but say Hayden's should be allowed is backward at best.
		
Click to expand...

Both won the ball but both were reckless and dangerous,only difference is one player got clattered, the other luckily skipped the challenge. 

Both red cards though.


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 30, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Both won the ball but both were reckless and dangerous,only difference is one player got clattered, the other luckily skipped the challenge.

Both red cards though.
		
Click to expand...

This. The Kompany one only looks better because Salah saw him coming and was able to avoid most of the contact. Both reds, both awful challenges, the Hayden one just looks worse because of the position Praet is in when he gets clattered.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Sep 30, 2019)

I thought the defender had to be in control with tackles, and leaving the floor whether contact is made or not is not in control...ergo red card.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 30, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I thought the defender had to be in control with tackles, and leaving the floor whether contact is made or not is not in control...ergo red card.
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure our resident ref will confirm the exact rule ðŸ¤­


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 30, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Both were not great but Kompany's was a yellow for me while Hayden's was a stonewall red. Kompany actually made the challenge with one foot not two, and it was certainly lower to the ground, just mistimed. For you to have demanded a red for that but say Hayden's should be allowed is backward at best.
		
Click to expand...

So Kompany is off his feet diving into a ball and yet you think itâ€™s only a yellow ? He is off his feet , thatâ€™s out of control - a clear red all day long is it not ? If Salah didnt jump out of the way quickly then that could have been very nasty.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 30, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Both won the ball but both were reckless and dangerous,only difference is one player got clattered, the other luckily skipped the challenge.

Both red cards though.
		
Click to expand...

You missed out Hayden wasnâ€™t wearing a City shirt!


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 30, 2019)

Looking at these two teams, I fancy Arsenal to win tonight and might have a few quid on them for interest.


----------



## fundy (Sep 30, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Looking at these two teams, I fancy Arsenal to win tonight and might have a few quid on them for interest.
		
Click to expand...

which bit of the awful defense and the unbalanced midfield appeals to you? Aubam or bust that line up (as per usual)


----------



## Piece (Sep 30, 2019)

Hoping itâ€™s more than a huff n puff 0-0


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 30, 2019)

I don't think Torreira plays with Xhaka. That said, who could? 
Would have liked to see Tierney start, and Holding. Chambers is the best option at RB, if only going forwards, if Bellerin is not fit enough yet.
Apart from Xhaka and the CB issue, I am not sure what else Dick could have done, with Laca unfit.


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 30, 2019)

fundy said:



			which bit of the awful defense and the unbalanced midfield appeals to you? Aubam or bust that line up (as per usual)
		
Click to expand...

It was more a case of how shite yernited are. I covered no goalscorer too ðŸ˜‰


----------



## fundy (Sep 30, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			I don't think Torreira plays with Xhaka. That said, who could? 
Would have liked to see Tierney start, and Holding. Chambers is the best option at RB, if only going forwards, if Bellerin is not fit enough yet.
Apart from Xhaka and the CB issue, I am not sure what else Dick could have done, with Laca unfit.
		
Click to expand...

Getting rid of Xhaka would be a good start! Playing Torreira as the most advanced of the 3 in central midfield and Ceballos on the bench doesnt make any sense

As for the back 4..................


----------



## fundy (Sep 30, 2019)

Chambers in all sorts of trouble inside 10 mins, has no help in front or from inside


----------



## Piece (Sep 30, 2019)

Both keepers can get their deck chairs out.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 30, 2019)

Piece said:



			Both keepers can get their deck chairs out.
		
Click to expand...

Sharp enough save by Leno but aside from that and a dodgy kick by De Gea they've not featured. Arsenal and Chambers in particular got through a tricky opening and look like their growing into it. That said the Arsenal defence always make me nervous about their ability to keep a clean sheet


----------



## fundy (Sep 30, 2019)

Utterly embarrassing, players clearly uncomfortable being asked to play the way they are, horrible structure, set up to defend without any of them actually being able to, relying on the top 3 to create for themselves. Ceballos warming the bench whilst we play 3 holding midfielders, none of whom actually are

and we may still be the better side on the pitch lol

oh and the moaning and diving culture is clearly being encouraged


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 30, 2019)

What a scrappy load of poo.


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 30, 2019)

Did Xhaka duck that?


----------



## fundy (Sep 30, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Did Xhaka duck that?
		
Click to expand...

he was lucky not to be in trouble for pulling his man down having been skinned for pace, 3 holding midfielders and none within 5 yards of the edge of the box, joke they really are


----------



## Slime (Sep 30, 2019)

Great strike, but who was it that closed his eyes and ducked out of the way?


----------



## SteveW86 (Sep 30, 2019)

Slime said:



			Great strike, but who was it that closed his eyes and ducked out of the way?
		
Click to expand...

Captain leading by example!


----------



## Slime (Sep 30, 2019)

Tuanzebe had a good first half and Dan James just scares the stool out of defenders.


----------



## Slime (Sep 30, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			Captain leading by example!
		
Click to expand...

Oh dear, at least his shirt is the appropriate colour.
I wonder what Tony Adams would have done!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 30, 2019)

Ref has been the worst one on the pitch.
Three fouls breaking up the counter and he only booked the away player.
Think Rashford was lucky that was yellow very two footed.???

Great finish from the lad.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 30, 2019)

I would worry for Arsenal  if they are hoping Holding and Tierney will greatly strengthen their defence. 

The former has been very unconvincing so far in his career and Tierney has made his  name playing in  a very uncompetitive league.

As for United I can only say that I am struggling to think of too many who I would think of as "United players" in the traditional sense.


----------



## fundy (Sep 30, 2019)

how hard is it to see, get Torreira to the holding role and get Ceballos on to play behind the front 3!!!!!


----------



## fundy (Sep 30, 2019)

i guess he got half of it right


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 30, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			I would worry for Arsenal  if they are hoping Holding and Tierney will greatly strengthen their defence.

The former has been very unconvincing so far in his career and Tierney has made his  name playing in  a very uncompetitive league.

As for United I can only say that I am struggling to think of too many who I would think of as "United players" in the traditional sense.
		
Click to expand...

De Gea


----------



## Slime (Sep 30, 2019)

VAR, you gotta laugh. It's just pathetic.





Just like Arsenal's histrionics and that bloody referee.


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 30, 2019)

Lino was terrible. Yards on side.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 30, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Lino was terrible. Yards on side.
		
Click to expand...

Definitely. Shocking position and a real guess


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 30, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			De Gea
		
Click to expand...

Not  as convinced by him now as I was a few years ago.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 30, 2019)

Slime said:



			VAR, you gotta laugh. It's just pathetic.
		
Click to expand...

This time it appears to have got it right though ?
Even though the linesman putting his flag up may have made the players stop ?


----------



## fundy (Sep 30, 2019)

Slime said:



			VAR, you gotta laugh. It's just pathetic.
		
Click to expand...


yeah linos should be able to give 2 yards onside as offside at Old Trafford lol


----------



## SteveW86 (Sep 30, 2019)

That for me is exactly why we need VAR, think itâ€™s the first time Iâ€™ve been glad we have it this season.

Extremely poor by the linesman and the decision gets corrected. 

Interesting that UTD were saying that the ref blew his whistle (replays suggest he didnâ€™t), but would be controversial if the players see the flag and stop. I know the saying â€œplay to the whistleâ€, but it is changing a massive habit to carry on playing if you see an offside flag


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 30, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			That for me is exactly why we need VAR, think itâ€™s the first time Iâ€™ve been glad we have it this season.

Extremely poor by the linesman and the decision gets corrected.

Interesting that UTD were saying that the ref blew his whistle (replays suggest he didnâ€™t), but would be controversial if the players see the flag and stop. I know the saying â€œplay to the whistleâ€, but it is changing a massive habit to carry on playing if you see an offside flag
		
Click to expand...

Agree this.
Looked to me the defenders stopped and very half hearted from De Gea.
Poor from Lino.

Game of footy at last.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Sep 30, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			Not  as convinced by him now as I was a few years ago.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe but look whatâ€™s in front of him.
I thought he would be off this season.


----------



## Slime (Sep 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			This time it appears to have got it right though ?
Even though the linesman putting his flag up may have made the players stop ?
		
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, the guy was onside and the goal was correctly given, so why couldn't they get it right when the Arsenal player handled the ball a few minutes earlier?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 30, 2019)

Slime said:



			Don't get me wrong, the guy was onside and the goal was correctly given, so why couldn't they get it right when the Arsenal player handled the ball a few minutes earlier?
		
Click to expand...

Was it not his upper arm ?


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Was it not his upper arm ?
		
Click to expand...

That's still handball.


----------



## USER1999 (Sep 30, 2019)

Xhaka, again. Liability.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 30, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			That's still handball.
		
Click to expand...

True

I guess itâ€™s all about making your body bigger as a defender and his arm isnâ€™t away from his body but itâ€™s the problem when if it was an attacker it would be given against them


*touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
[*]the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger
[*]the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the player deliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm)*.             




Itâ€™s not hand ball if itâ€™s accidental and arm is close to body ?


----------



## Slime (Sep 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Was it not his upper arm ?
		
Click to expand...

Yes ..................... and?


----------



## fundy (Sep 30, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Xhaka, again. Liability.
		
Click to expand...

captain fantastic lol


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 30, 2019)

Slime said:



			Yes ..................... and?
		
Click to expand...

Clarified above

Arm close to body not making the body un naturally bigger and accidental - no penalty


----------



## pendodave (Sep 30, 2019)

Horrid weather. Poor ref. Two sides without any discernable style...
Not really worth an argument tbh.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			True

I guess itâ€™s all about making your body bigger as a defender and his arm isnâ€™t away from his body but itâ€™s the problem when if it was an attacker it would be given against them
		
Click to expand...

No attempt to get  out of the way despite the ball having travelled 10 yards or so. 

But I agree the situation where a different interpretation is applied to a forward compared to a defender makes  a mockery of the handball law.


----------



## fundy (Sep 30, 2019)

surprise surprise a bit of Aubam class bails us out against the worst united side ive seen in many a year!

Emery OUT
Xhaka OUT
Luiz OUT


----------



## Slime (Sep 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Clarified above

Arm close to body not making the body un naturally bigger and accidental - no penalty
		
Click to expand...

Sorry mate, I think you're wrong.
But hey, lets at least agree that the officials had a 'mare tonight.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 30, 2019)

Better point for Arsenal and a poor game in terms of quality. Both sides had a chance towards the end but nothing on show to make me think either side will get top six


----------



## Slime (Sep 30, 2019)

fundy said:



			surprise surprise a bit of Aubam class bails us out against the worst united side ive seen in many a year!

Emery OUT
Xhaka OUT
Luiz OUT



Click to expand...

and,
Lingard OUT
Young OUT
Woodward OUT
Glazers OUT


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 30, 2019)

Slime said:



			Sorry mate, I think you're wrong.
But hey, lets at least agree that the officials had a 'mare tonight.
		
Click to expand...

Officials are always having a mare these days and VAR is making it worse , canâ€™t recall how close to his body the arm was but the handball rule is a mess


----------



## Slime (Sep 30, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Better point for Arsenal and a poor game in terms of quality. Both sides had a chance towards the end but *nothing on show to make me think either side will get top six*

Click to expand...

Thanks Homer, top six now guaranteed for both sides.


----------



## Robin Hood (Sep 30, 2019)

Slime said:



			and,
Lingard OUT
Young OUT
Woodward OUT
Glazers OUT
		
Click to expand...

And one from me 
Ashley OUT


----------



## Stuart_C (Sep 30, 2019)

Nice to see VAR being used correctly and rectifying a clear and obvious error ,and not to prove a forward is offside by his armpit ðŸ™„


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 1, 2019)

Met a lovely chap on the way back from Alcatraz. He's called Adam from Liverpool. We had a lovely natter about football and agreed were a bit ahead of the rest of the league. We said we are grateful were not watching Utd or Arsenal. Sounds like we were right.


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 1, 2019)

Dan2501 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1144121555749933057
This is the Kompany one for comparison, at least I think it is (ignore the dreadful caption). Very similar, impact of the Hayden one looks worse as the Leicester lad was in no position to attempt to hurdle it. The 2nd replay angle makes it look like a real leg breaker.
		
Click to expand...

Any chance I can use that as a screensaver.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 1, 2019)

A decent point and still only one defeat in the league and that was away to Liverpool.

Not a bad start for a team that is still without a few first 11 players.

We could have nicked a win today if we showed a bit more enterprise with the team selection but then again we could have lost 4-0 so fair play, a point at OT is never a bad point. 
Wenger might have said tonight â€œWe played a little bit with the handbrake onâ€ and I would agree with that, they were there for the taking Utd.

Itâ€™s beginning to look like Pepe will need a season to settle which isnâ€™t unusual tbf. I think this Arsenal team will continue to drop points here and there but will get stronger and trend upwards over the next 1-2 seasons. I just hope that doubters donâ€™t force Emery out before we see the fruits of his labour.

Rome wasnâ€™t built in a day. ðŸ‘


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 1, 2019)

Slime said:



			Thanks Homer, top six now guaranteed for both sides. 

Click to expand...

Bet you Â£10 for H4H both don't make it


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 1, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Bet you Â£10 for H4H both don't make it
		
Click to expand...

But if neither Arsenal nor Utd are in the top six then who is?? Leicester and...? Now that Wolves and Watford have dropped out of the picture, Everton have been poor as well. Surely not West Ham??


----------



## Slime (Oct 1, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Bet you Â£10 for H4H both don't make it
		
Click to expand...

Done.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 1, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Bet you Â£10 for H4H both don't make it
		
Click to expand...

Happy to take that bet for HFH too, there is no way that Arsenal will finish 7th or worse this year.


----------



## pendodave (Oct 1, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			A decent point and still only one defeat in the league and that was away to Liverpool.

Not a bad start for a team that is still without a few first 11 players.

We could have nicked a win today if we showed a bit more enterprise with the team selection but then again we could have lost 4-0 so fair play, a point at OT is never a bad point.
Wenger might have said tonight â€œWe played a little bit with the handbrake onâ€ and I would agree with that, they were there for the taking Utd.

Itâ€™s beginning to look like Pepe will need a season to settle which isnâ€™t unusual tbf. I think this Arsenal team will continue to drop points here and there but will get stronger and trend upwards over the next 1-2 seasons. I just hope that doubters donâ€™t force Emery out before we see the fruits of his labour.

Rome wasnâ€™t built in a day. ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Not sure about this. I went to the carabau game (not a gooner, just curious). The team had a certain logic to its construction and played in a reasonably structured way, albeit against forest. Someone told me that Freddie had sorted it out...
Fast forward to last night... Players hopelessly out of position, no structure either with or without the ball, kind of a footballing Brownian motion.
I've watched quite a lot of sub standard fare over the years as an occasional visitor to Upton park and Stratford, so I know what it looks like.
If you had Pellegrino (perish the thought) it would be a better team in a month.


----------



## pendodave (Oct 1, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			But if neither Arsenal nor Utd are in the top six then who is?? Leicester and...? Now that Wolves and Watford have dropped out of the picture, Everton have been poor as well. Surely not West Ham?? 

Click to expand...

Surely not.... Probably not, actually. I think only one of them will miss out as Chelsea, Leicester and spurs in no particular order will take 3 of the 4.
On balance, I think arsenal will get there despite Emery's best efforts as they have a couple of top class forwards and will soon have two much better full backs available.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 1, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			No attempt to get  out of the way despite the ball having travelled 10 yards or so.

But I agree the situation where a different interpretation is applied to a forward compared to a defender makes  a mockery of the handball law.
		
Click to expand...

Hasnâ€™t that always happened?
How many times have you heard â€œ that was a forwards challengeâ€ when he has just clattered someone and gets away with it, 
Where a defender would be booked.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 1, 2019)

pendodave said:



			Not sure about this. I went to the carabau game (not a gooner, just curious). The team had a certain logic to it's construction and played in a reasonably structured way, albeit against forest. Someone told me that Freddie had sorted it out...
Fast forward to last night... Players hopelessly out of position, no structure either with or without the ball, kind of a footballing Brownian motion.
I've watched quite a lot of sub standard fare over the years as an occasional visitor to Upton park and Stratford, so I know what it looks like. 
If you had Pellegrino (perish the thought) it would be a better team in a month.
		
Click to expand...

With respect to Forest they arenâ€™t the same calibre as Utd therefore requires a different game plan.

Thatâ€™s the most impressive thing about Emery for me so far, his ability to change things up. I believe he is using every game to experiment to find his best 11, and when the selection/formation hasnâ€™t worked he seems to know how to rescue the situation.

This is the one thing that he is better than Wenger at IMO.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 1, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			With respect to Forest they arenâ€™t the same calibre as Utd therefore requires a different game plan.

Thatâ€™s the most impressive thing about Emery for me so far, his ability to change things up. I believe he is using every game to experiment to find his best 11, and when the selection/formation hasnâ€™t worked he seems to know how to rescue the situation.

This is the one thing that he is better than Wenger at IMO.
		
Click to expand...

I thought you should have won quite easily .
Your finishing was just not good enough.
Abamayang scored his only one but all others were wasted.


----------



## pendodave (Oct 1, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			With respect to Forest they arenâ€™t the same calibre as Utd therefore requires a different game plan.

Thatâ€™s the most impressive thing about Emery for me so far, his ability to change things up. I believe he is using every game to experiment to find his best 11, and when the selection/formation hasnâ€™t worked he seems to know how to rescue the situation.

This is the one thing that he is better than Wenger at IMO.
		
Click to expand...

Hmmm... He's had a season and a bit and no gooner I know has the faintest idea what he's up to.
I think you'd have to go a very long way down the table to find a team who's supporters would rather have Emery than their current incumbent. 
You've too many decent players to be terrible, but....I just think they are less than the sum of their parts and I don't think I'm alone.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 1, 2019)

pendodave said:



			Hmmm... He's had a season and a bit and no gooner I know has the faintest idea what he's up to.
I think you'd have to go a very long way down the table to find a team who's supporters would rather have Emery than their current incumbent. 
You've too many decent players to be terrible, but....I just think they are less than the sum of their parts and I don't think I'm alone.
		
Click to expand...

4th in the league, only 1 position lower than anybody could realistically be ( behind City and Liverpool).

And where does your assessment of Emery leave Poch, Lampard, OGS? Who sit behind Arsenal in the league currently?

This is a 3-5 year project and Iâ€™m relaxed about how things are going at the moment. 

Signs are there that this guy knows what he is doing, the strategy looks sound but of course there will be tactical losses and mishaps along the way - thatâ€™s football.


----------



## Junior (Oct 1, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			A decent point and still only one defeat in the league and that was away to Liverpool.

Not a bad start for a team that is still without a few first 11 players.

We could have nicked a win today if we showed a bit more enterprise with the team selection but then again we could have lost 4-0 so fair play, a point at OT is never a bad point.
Wenger might have said tonight â€œWe played a little bit with the handbrake onâ€ and I would agree with that, *they were there for the taking Utd.*

Itâ€™s beginning to look like Pepe will need a season to settle which isnâ€™t unusual tbf. I think this Arsenal team will continue to drop points here and there but will get stronger and trend upwards over the next 1-2 seasons. I just hope that doubters donâ€™t force Emery out before we see the fruits of his labour.

Rome wasnâ€™t built in a day. ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

So were Arsenal mate.  Lets face it.....both teams were bang average and a shadow of their former selves.  

Utd have a striker in Rashford who couldn't score in a brothel right now.  Pereira, Young and Lingard are woeful.  As i said earlier, I like the attitude in the squad and the fact Ole's building a team with no bad eggs so to speak, but we need a few more signings.


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 1, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			But if neither Arsenal nor Utd are in the top six then who is?? Leicester and...? Now that Wolves and Watford have dropped out of the picture, Everton have been poor as well. Surely not West Ham?? 

Click to expand...

Dw, we just lost fabanski for 3 months


----------



## pendodave (Oct 1, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Dw, we just lost fabanski for 3 months
		
Click to expand...

Depressing isn't it.
When him and pellers came in, I was deeply unimpressed.  Turns out I was completely wrong on both counts. In fact, I think he is the 'player I was most wrong about when signed'
The manager I was most wrong about was wanting us to get Silva when he left hull...


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 1, 2019)

pendodave said:



			Depressing isn't it.
When him and pellers came in, I was deeply unimpressed.  Turns out I was completely wrong on both counts. In fact, I think he is the 'player I was most wrong about when signed'
The manager I was most wrong about was wanting us to get Silva when he left hull...
		
Click to expand...

Im fully behind Roberto ofc and I honestly don't think keeping Adrian would have been better because he was a liability he just has one of the best defences in front of him now. Put him back for us and he would let in as many as Roberto does

That said fabainski is a different class. Was very impressed when him and MP signed , only issue with them both is their ages. Old for a manager and whilst 33 isn't that old for s keeper it's not like we set for a long long time


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 1, 2019)

Pretty good game this! I do feel like we need at least two more goals though as you just know Coutinho and Gnabry will both score. Sonny looks well sharp early on.


----------



## GG26 (Oct 1, 2019)

Canâ€™t believe how open the game is - great to watch.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 1, 2019)

COYS.

This is embarrassing, make it stop.


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 1, 2019)

Spurs, the gift that keeps on giving.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 1, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			COYS.

This is embarrassing, make it stop.
		
Click to expand...

Embarrassing?? I think it's hilarious.

Only need Paddyk to come on with his Dele Ali song to make it a 10/10 evening ðŸ˜


----------



## Piece (Oct 1, 2019)

Have Spurs signed the whole Watford defence without me knowing? ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 1, 2019)

Bayern have schooled Spurs tonight.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 1, 2019)

Jesus Christ. Poch could walk tomorrow.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 1, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Jesus Christ. Poch could walk tomorrow.
		
Click to expand...

Not too hasty, didnâ€™t they start slowly last season?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 1, 2019)

7 ?!??! ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 1, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Jesus Christ. Poch could walk tomorrow.
		
Click to expand...

That'll solve all your problems.


----------



## davemc1 (Oct 1, 2019)

Munich were fantastic. Absolute hunger and desire to obliterate spurs. 

That gnabry is a cracker, one of a small number of players that Iâ€™ve seen give robbo a torrid time


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 1, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Munich were fantastic. Absolute hunger and desire to obliterate spurs.

*That gnabry is a cracker, *one of a small number of players that Iâ€™ve seen give robbo a torrid time
		
Click to expand...

Another one Wenger managed to ruin.


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 1, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Another one Wenger managed to ruin.
		
Click to expand...

But not beyond redemption with a decent bit of coaching.


----------



## Piece (Oct 1, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Munich were fantastic. Absolute hunger and desire to obliterate spurs.

That gnabry is a cracker, one of a small number of players that Iâ€™ve seen give robbo a torrid time
		
Click to expand...

Couldnâ€™t quite crack it WBA


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 1, 2019)

Piece said:



			Couldnâ€™t quite crack it WBA 

Click to expand...

Yep, Pulis as bad a judge of talent as Wenger was.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Oct 1, 2019)

If your team lose to Colchester then you're always going to struggle against Bayern.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 1, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Jesus Christ. Poch could walk tomorrow.
		
Click to expand...

Snow White likes 7 don't you know


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 1, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			But not beyond redemption *with a decent bit of coaching*.
		
Click to expand...

Wenger's downfall eh?


----------



## ColchesterFC (Oct 1, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			If your team lose to Colchester then you're always going to struggle against Bayern.
		
Click to expand...

It's been a good week to be a Colchester fan with a Spurs supporting mate on Facebook. That's twice in the last week I've been able to post "You OK hun" on his wall.


----------



## Piece (Oct 1, 2019)

Poch is to be installed as the new Brexit Secretary tomorrow. He apparently can get us out of Europe faster than anyone.

ðŸ˜œðŸ¤£


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 1, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Wenger's downfall eh?
		
Click to expand...

For sure.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 1, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Another one Wenger managed to ruin.
		
Click to expand...

Lol, made by WengerðŸ‘


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 1, 2019)

Gnabry certainly looks quality but let's not forget his man marker tonight was Aurier.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Gnabry certainly looks quality but *let's not forget his man marker tonight was Aurier*. 

Click to expand...

How did he stay on the pitch?? Pochettino should've hooked him at HT. 

Pochettino needs to take responsibility for that result. Subs of Eriksen,Lamela and Moura were too aggressive with 20+ mins left.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Lol, made by WengerðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Do you really consider a player who played for a manager  for 872 minutes over 3 seasons, was "made" by him?


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 2, 2019)

Dad, can we go and watch Spurs tonight?"

"Of course we can son"

"When's kick off Dad?"

"Every few minutes"


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 2, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Do you really consider a player who played for a manager  for 872 minutes over 3 seasons, was "made" by him?
		
Click to expand...

No I consider a player that was at Arsenal for 5 years to have been.ðŸ‘


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			No I consider a player that was at Arsenal for 5 years to have been.ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Bought him in 2013 and sold in 2016, no?


----------



## Dan2501 (Oct 2, 2019)

They signed him in 2010 but he couldn't join until 2011. Sold in 2016. Didn't make an appearance for them after 2014 though.

Do love how Arsenal fans on social are claiming this win as a success for them. Embarrassing result for Spurs, but they're still going to get through their group of a competition Arsenal didn't even qualify for.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 2, 2019)

Didn't see the Spurs game but did they really give up as said? I heard Potechino was sat in his seat for ages during the game shaking his head and looking towards the board members seated in the stand. Definitely seems to be something wrong behind the scenes and they look devoid of ideas or guidance on the pitch.


----------



## Jensen (Oct 2, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Didn't see the Spurs game but did they really give up as said? I heard Potechino was sat in his seat for ages during the game shaking his head and looking towards the board members seated in the stand. Definitely seems to be something wrong behind the scenes and they look devoid of ideas or guidance on the pitch.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, worryingly there seems to be massive issues behind the scenes. It's disgraceful and embarrassing and needs resolved.
COYS


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 2, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Didn't see the Spurs game but did they really give up as said? I heard Potechino was sat in his seat for ages during the game shaking his head and looking towards the board members seated in the stand. Definitely seems to be something wrong behind the scenes and they look devoid of ideas or guidance on the pitch.
		
Click to expand...

Great manager
Financed a new stadium
Competing now on all fronts with restricted finance
Players stalling on new contracts
Threat of losing best players
Maybe canâ€™t now attract best players
Greedy players and agents
Other teams with seemingly unlimited finances
Fans now getting on managers back
Speculation about managers future

sound familiar?


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 2, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			How did he stay on the pitch?? Pochettino should've hooked him at HT.

Pochettino needs to take responsibility for that result. Subs of Eriksen,Lamela and Moura were too aggressive with 20+ mins left.
		
Click to expand...

Poch made plenty of mistakes in my opinion. Although with Aurier, we've stupidly left ourselves with no other options in the summer. I think he wants Foyth to be first choice RB but he got that long injury which scuppered the plan.

The next mistake was playing a narrow diamond formation which leaves Aurier one on one with Gnabry all game. He honestly was never within 5 yards of him, it was ridiculous. And I agree with you, when we got back to 2-4 with the penalty, he seemed to throw the kitchen sink at it and left us wide open. Winks had a really poor game as well unfortunately, which swayed the midfield battle in their favour.

The only small caveat is that Bayern's finishing was so, so good. They only hit the target 10 times, to our 8 times. Lewandowski's two finishes were absolutely top drawer as well as Gnabry who gets the headlines of course.


----------



## Rlburnside (Oct 2, 2019)

Didnâ€™t s


HomerJSimpson said:



			Didn't see the Spurs game but did they really give up as said? I heard Potechino was sat in his seat for ages during the game shaking his head and looking towards the board members seated in the stand. Definitely seems to be something wrong behind the scenes and they look devoid of ideas or guidance on the pitch.
		
Click to expand...

Didnâ€™t see the game..... they looked devoid of ideas or guidance on the pitchðŸ¤£

For the first 30 minutes Spurs played the best Iâ€™ve seen them this season, Iâ€™ve said before Spurs donâ€™t look right this season, worring how we capitulated in the second half. 

Big problems at the moment.


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 2, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			No I consider a player that was at Arsenal for 5 years to have been.ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

It must be great knowing wenger was responsible for all these players winning multiple trophies once theyâ€™ve left arsenal ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## ColchesterFC (Oct 2, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Great manager
Financed a new stadium
Competing now on all fronts with restricted finance
Players stalling on new contracts
Threat of losing best players
Maybe canâ€™t now attract best players
Greedy players and agents
Other teams with seemingly unlimited finances
Fans now getting on managers back
Speculation about managers future

sound familiar?
		
Click to expand...

If it wasn't for the line "competing now on all fronts" you could have been talking about Arsenal.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 2, 2019)

Perhaps Pochettino is getting ready for his tilt at Real Madrid?


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2019)

City will miss  Bernado Silva when he gets banned for 8 games for using racist language.


----------



## pendodave (Oct 2, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			The only small caveat is that Bayern's finishing was so, so good. They only hit the target 10 times, to our 8 times. Lewandowski's two finishes were absolutely top drawer as well as Gnabry who gets the headlines of course.
		
Click to expand...

There's something in this (though it grieves me to say it). Spurs missed a couple of chances early on that were better than pretty much every one that led to a Bayern goal.
I wonder if bayern will still be this good in the spring? Their last few seasons have started brightly but fizzled out come the knockout stages. Rather like psg, playing in a non-competitive league isn't great prep for the pointy end of the season.


----------



## User62651 (Oct 2, 2019)

Only watched the 1st half of Spurs v Bayern, enjoyable pacey open end to end game and I thought Spurs had the best of it and were unlucky going in 2-1 down, me telling the boy without Ribery and Robben Bayern weren't all that.
What the heck happened 2nd half?
Still cant see Bayern winning ECL this year, be any of Juve, Man City, Liverpool or the 2 Spanish giants.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 2, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			Didnâ€™t s


Didnâ€™t see the game..... they looked devoid of ideas or guidance on the pitchðŸ¤£
		
Click to expand...

Talking about their performances in the last few games that I have seen on TV. Didn't see last night but so much said on TV and in the media about Poch and whether seems to have lost the belief of the players or there has been some sort of falling out behind the scenes. They definitely seem a shadow of the side that got to a CL final


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 2, 2019)

maxfli65 said:



			Only watched the 1st half of Spurs v Bayern, enjoyable pacey open end to end game and I thought Spurs had the best of it and were unlucky going in 2-1 down, me telling the boy without Ribery and Robben Bayern weren't all that.
*What the heck happened 2nd half?*
Still cant see Bayern winning ECL this year, be any of Juve, Man City, Liverpool or the 2 Spanish giants.
		
Click to expand...

We didn't come back out for some reason.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 2, 2019)




----------



## IanM (Oct 2, 2019)

My sister is a Spurs season ticket holder.
My brother in law is a West Ham season ticket holder.

She isn't taking calls or answering messages this morning.   Bet it is fun in their house right now!


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 2, 2019)

Currently sat at SF airport. Anyway on a City page I follow there kicking off over 3 penalties that VAR never gave. Was there.any case or not. Secondly, a pal had been sending me photos of text messages re vertonghen, Ericsson,kane,, spurs, lost split dressing room, black eyes etc etc. The forum is not me god for a month but flippin  eck. Has it been splashed all over the back pages yet.


----------



## fundy (Oct 2, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Currently sat at SF airport. Anyway on a City page I follow there kicking off over 3 penalties that VAR never gave. Was there.any case or not. Secondly, a pal had been sending me photos of text messages re vertonghen, Ericsson,kane,, spurs, lost split dressing room, black eyes etc etc. The forum is not me god for a month but flippin  eck. Has it been splashed all over the back pages yet.
		
Click to expand...


cant comment on the city game, everyone was too busy laughing at spurs 

those rumours been about for a while, not been in the mainstream press that i know of no


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 2, 2019)

So Liverpool have been fined 100k for their player  balls up.

League Cup winners prize money. 100k.

Seems fair ðŸ¤”ðŸ™„


----------



## Fish (Oct 2, 2019)

So many naysayers and doomongers didnâ€™t have anything positive to say about Abraham when he was brought back to be our striker, well he ainâ€™t doing too bad is he ðŸ¤”


----------



## Fish (Oct 2, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			So Liverpool have been fined 100k for their player  balls up.

League Cup winners prize money. 100k.

Seems fair ðŸ¤”ðŸ™„
		
Click to expand...

200k on the news I listened to this afternoon.


----------



## fundy (Oct 2, 2019)

Fish said:



			So many naysayers and doomongers didnâ€™t have anything positive to say about Abraham when he was brought back to be our striker, well he ainâ€™t doing too bad is he ðŸ¤”
		
Click to expand...

won me chunks when at villa last year and doing ok for my fantasy side this  done better than i expected though for sure though


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 2, 2019)

Fish said:



			200k on the news I listened to this afternoon.
		
Click to expand...

I think half was suspended so Â£200k fine, Â£100k to pay now.


----------



## Fish (Oct 2, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think half was suspended so Â£200k fine, Â£100k to pay now.
		
Click to expand...

They need to pay it on the drip ðŸ˜œ


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 2, 2019)

Fish said:



			200k on the news I listened to this afternoon.
		
Click to expand...

100k suspended. 

So in theory another violation and they'll pay the prize money twice ðŸ™„


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 2, 2019)

Fish said:



			So many naysayers and doomongers didnâ€™t have anything positive to say about Abraham when he was brought back to be our striker, well he ainâ€™t doing too bad is he ðŸ¤”
		
Click to expand...

Micheal Ricketts had a good season as well ðŸ˜‰ he is certainly doing well , young lads playing with zero worries


----------



## fundy (Oct 2, 2019)

surely Liverpool arent going to outdo Spurs in the embarrassing factor tonight are they


----------



## Piece (Oct 2, 2019)

Didn't see that coming but this Salzburg team look a bit tasty on the break.


----------



## Old Skier (Oct 2, 2019)

fundy said:



			surely Liverpool arent going to outdo Spurs in the embarrassing factor tonight are they 

Click to expand...

Nobody's that bad


----------



## SteveW86 (Oct 2, 2019)

Fish said:



			So many naysayers and doomongers didnâ€™t have anything positive to say about Abraham when he was brought back to be our striker, well he ainâ€™t doing too bad is he ðŸ¤”
		
Click to expand...

I like the potential this Chelsea team has. Massively behind the Liverpool and Man City at the minute, but itâ€™s refreshing to have a team who could have a really strong core of young English players. 

They might not win anything for a few years, but could see them becoming very settled over the next 5 years if Lampard can do a good job.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2019)

That was a crazy game. Thought we dominated the game and were cruising at 3 nil. 

Individual errors by Henderson losing the ball where  he should be doing better  and not winning it back,  Gomez steaming into a challenge where he doesnt need to giving  a quick free kick away.

That Minamino, their #18 was superb. They're a decent side, wouldnt surprise me if they go on a good run this season


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2019)

Piece said:



			Didn't see that coming but this Salzburg team look a bit tasty on the break.
		
Click to expand...

They're a very good side, definitely a surprise package.


----------



## Dan2501 (Oct 3, 2019)

Salzburg are good. They've got a few guys who are properly talented - Nissan Kristensen at RB is going to be excellent, obviously Haland stands out up top, Szoboszlai is very highly rated, they seem to be very good at finding these talented youngsters from across Europe and they play a really exciting brand of football. This summer they sold a lad who I think will be playing for a big side as a central midfielder within the next few years - Diadie SamassÃ©kou. Whoever is running their scouting operation and transfer policy is doing a fantastic job.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 3, 2019)

Fish said:



			So many naysayers and doomongers didnâ€™t have anything positive to say about Abraham when he was brought back to be our striker, well he ainâ€™t doing too bad is he ðŸ¤”
		
Click to expand...

Fair play, I'll hold my hands up, didn't think he was Premier League quality but he's proving me wrong. Good for England as he gives us an alternative option for Kane's glass ankles go again.


----------



## Piece (Oct 3, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Salzburg are good. They've got a few guys who are properly talented - Nissan Kristensen at RB is going to be excellent, obviously Haland stands out up top, Szoboszlai is very highly rated, they seem to be very good at finding these talented youngsters from across Europe and they play a really exciting brand of football. This summer they sold a lad who I think will be playing for a big side as a central midfielder within the next few years - Diadie SamassÃ©kou. Whoever is running their scouting operation and transfer policy is doing a fantastic job.
		
Click to expand...

After last night, some players' value have really gone up. Let's see what will happen in the next two transfer windows with them.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 3, 2019)

Interesting piece. Think you write either off at your peril and not sure their careers are in decline just yet. Hard to keep doing what they've been doing each and every season and so any dip is bound to get people asking the question https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49851148


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 3, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			So Liverpool have been fined 100k for their player  balls up.

League Cup winners prize money. 100k.

Seems fair ðŸ¤”ðŸ™„
		
Click to expand...

I find it hard to belive a club as big as us can get caught out by something like this .
Somebody hasnâ€™t done their job properly .
If we have played a ineligible player for any reason we should be out.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 3, 2019)

One for the refs on here.
In the spurs game I noticed there was another ball on the pitch when a throw in was taken about 10 ydâ€™s from the corner flag.
Kane shot but missed.
If they had scored from the shot would  / could VAR disallow the goal because there were two balls on the pitch.?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 3, 2019)

Liverpool went from fantastic to awful last night.
Delighted for Robbo what a great goal.
Might just be me but every ball fell to one of their midfield after 30mins.
They looked a very attacking team ,but mistakes let them back in the game that should have been all over at half time.
We did well to come back after the third goal .
Thought our midfield were never in charge.


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			They're a very good side, definitely a surprise package.
		
Click to expand...

Over the recent years there has been some.tasty teams eg Ajax and Monaco. Both end up having there best assets well stripped.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 3, 2019)

Fish said:



			So many naysayers and doomongers didnâ€™t have anything positive to say about Abraham when he was brought back to be our striker, well he ainâ€™t doing too bad is he ðŸ¤”
		
Click to expand...

Heâ€™ll be playing in a lower PL team or even championship within 2-3 seasons. Just doesnâ€™t convince me at all.  

Probably DerbyðŸ˜Š


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			That was a crazy game. Thought we dominated the game and were cruising at 3 nil.

Individual errors by Henderson losing the ball where  he should be doing better  and not winning it back,  Gomez steaming into a challenge where he doesnt need to giving  a quick free kick away.

That Minamino, their #18 was superb. They're a decent side, wouldnt surprise me if they go on a good run this season
		
Click to expand...

Yeah must be an amazing team to stick 3 past Liverpool eh? ðŸ˜‰

Theyâ€™re a good side but I do think pundits and media are getting carried away a bit with Liverpool. Fletch and Mcmanaman last night were embarrassing.


----------



## Fish (Oct 3, 2019)

Not a single shot on target for yernited ðŸ˜œ


----------



## fundy (Oct 3, 2019)

come on Fish, youre allowed to comment on the Arsenal game too


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 3, 2019)

Missed the first half of the United game as was at footy - worth staying up for the highlights?


----------



## fundy (Oct 3, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Missed the first half of the United game as was at footy - worth staying up for the highlights?
		
Click to expand...


should work well on insomnia


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 3, 2019)

Loving this Arsenal team. Bung in some Auba, a bit of Laca, some Holding, a dash of Chambers and Saka , and may be we have something.

Or, play the usual rubbish.


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 3, 2019)

Is Emery mad? Auba, at 4 0 up  with 10 minutes left? Why risk him? This game is done.


----------



## fundy (Oct 3, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Is Emery mad? Auba, at 4 0 up  with 10 minutes left? Why risk him? This game is done.
		
Click to expand...


just posted the exact same thing on twitter!!!! seriously what are you thinking


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 4, 2019)

Think a few on here predicted it would play out this way https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-49934716


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 4, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Think a few on here predicted it would play out this way https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-49934716

Click to expand...

Bit of a joke if we want to take drink driving seriously. Surely the only reason not to provide a breath test is that you know you are well over the limit.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Bit of a joke if we want to take drink driving seriously. Surely the only reason not to provide a breath test is that you know you are well over the limit.
		
Click to expand...

It should be mandatory.
If you refuse you are going to jail.
As long as everyone knows you canâ€™t complain then.
Driving laws are a bit of a joke you can really get away with murder.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 4, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			It should be mandatory.
If you refuse you are going to jail.
As long as everyone knows you canâ€™t complain then.
Driving laws are a bit of a joke you can really get away with murder.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, if you refuse to give the breath test, it should be assumed that you are well over the limit, and thus you are a drink driver - with all the serious punishments that come with that.


----------



## Fish (Oct 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Yep, *if you refuse to give the breath test, it should be assumed that you are well over the limit, and thus you are a drink driver -* with all the serious punishments that come with that.
		
Click to expand...

It does already, a refusal of a breath or blood test means you are immediately charged and assumed guilty and itâ€™s a minimum 12 month ban plus fine & costs.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 4, 2019)

Really disappointed in all this. I met him at a golf day last year, chatted with him,  heard his stories which he was happy to reel off. Answered question after question from allcomers, really gave everything to the organisers. I came away thinking what a really honest, down to earth bloke he was, no edge to him and a great person to get on that sort of day. Big mistake to have made.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 4, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			It should be mandatory.
If you refuse you are going to jail.
As long as everyone knows you canâ€™t complain then.
Driving laws are a bit of a joke you can really get away with murder.
		
Click to expand...

Disgraceful decision really. What message is this sending out to would be drink drivers?

Refuse a sample and you will most likely avoid a jail sentence.

They should have jailed him and anyone else who drink drives or refuses to give a sample.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 4, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Disgraceful decision really. What message is this sending out to would be drink drivers?

Refuse a sample and you will most likely avoid a jail sentence.

They should have jailed him and anyone else who drink drives or refuses to give a sample.
		
Click to expand...

They did jail him but unfortunately the well off have very good briefs and seem to get away with it.
If thatâ€™s an ordinary working man heâ€™s in jail.


----------



## Fish (Oct 4, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			They did jail him but unfortunately the well off have very good briefs and seem to get away with it.
If thatâ€™s an ordinary working man heâ€™s in jail.
		
Click to expand...

No heâ€™s not, you do not get jailed automatically for refusing a breath test, you simply get charged as guilty as itâ€™s an admission of guilt and are fast tracked to court for a minimum 12 month ban plus fine & costs.

He obviously got jailed for a combination of other things, his attitude being a major contribution to that b


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 4, 2019)

Fish said:



			No heâ€™s not, you do not get jailed automatically for refusing a breath test, you simply get charged as guilty as itâ€™s an admission of guilt and are fast tracked to court for a minimum 12 month ban plus fine & costs.

He obviously got jailed for a combination of other things, his attitude being a major contribution to that b
		
Click to expand...

Yes he is!
I never said you do ? I think you should thatâ€™s just my opinion.
If I did what he did and got 10 days in jail ,I havnt got the money for a top barrister to get me off = jail.


----------



## Fish (Oct 5, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes he is!
I never said you do ? I think you should thatâ€™s just my opinion.
If I did what he did and got 10 days in jail ,I havnt got the money for a top barrister to get me off = jail.
		
Click to expand...

You said â€˜*If thatâ€™s an ordinary working man heâ€™s in jailâ€™*, thatâ€™s not an opinion, thatâ€™s a statement of fact, which is incorrect as per my response.

Many people refuse to blow both at the roadside and in the main machine at the station, which you have to do as well as the roadside as thatâ€™s only an indicator, although a pretty accurate one to arrest someone.

If they refuse to blow in the main machine also you're locked up until the desk believes youâ€™re sober and then charged for refusing to give a sample which is a mandatory 12 month ban by the magistrates courts, there is never a question of going to jail for refusing to give a sample, unless there are many other mitigating circumstances, which obviously there were with his refusal to comply with anything without a solicitor, which isnâ€™t allowed in these circumstances as it delays the readings, although I think he would have still blowed over in the morning watching the video, but I would â€˜assumeâ€™ he still refused in the morning after being charged.

You can be offered a blood sample to be sent away and you declare what you believe you have eaten & drank in the last 12/24 hours and itâ€™s sent away for analysis and again is wholly accepted by the courts as correct, this is when you believe you have been spiked and have consumed alcohol unwittingly.

Your highlighted reply was in response to Sean who inferred that everyone who refuses to blow should be jailed, which as you said, he was, but obviously not just for refusing to blow, so him having access to expensive lawyers is a mute point, otherwise it would be mandatory for everyone who refuses to give a sample, which it isnâ€™t.

Should it be, controversially I donâ€™t think so, itâ€™s simply an admission of guilt and can actually save police time and money by not giving a sample so you just receive your mandatory 12 month ban plus fine & costs, the only caveat being if itâ€™s not a first time offence then the mandatory ban is increased to a minimum of 3 years.

Thereâ€™s never a question of jail unless there are other mitigating circumstances, such as drugs found also or if involved in a collision, but if itâ€™s a routine (suspicious) stop and then a refusal to give a sample, your technically and automatically simply banning yourself.

Obviously the other scenario that omits all this confrontation at the roadside and in the station, is having a zero tolerance and removing the allowed amount of alcohol that be consumed, but thatâ€™s a complete different conversation for a different thread and topic.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 5, 2019)

Fish said:



			You said â€˜*If thatâ€™s an ordinary working man heâ€™s in jailâ€™*, thatâ€™s not an opinion, thatâ€™s a statement of fact, which is incorrect as per my response.

Many people refuse to blow both at the roadside and in the main machine at the station, which you have to do as well as the roadside as thatâ€™s only an indicator, although a pretty accurate one to arrest someone.

If they refuse to blow in the main machine also you're locked up until the desk believes youâ€™re sober and then charged for refusing to give a sample which is a mandatory 12 month ban by the magistrates courts, there is never a question of going to jail for refusing to give a sample, unless there are many other mitigating circumstances, which obviously there were with his refusal to comply with anything without a solicitor, which isnâ€™t allowed in these circumstances as it delays the readings, although I think he would have still blowed over in the morning watching the video, but I would â€˜assumeâ€™ he still refused in the morning after being charged.

You can be offered a blood sample to be sent away and you declare what you believe you have eaten & drank in the last 12/24 hours and itâ€™s sent away for analysis and again is wholly accepted by the courts as correct, this is when you believe you have been spiked and have consumed alcohol unwittingly.

Your highlighted reply was in response to Sean who inferred that everyone who refuses to blow should be jailed, which as you said, he was, but obviously not just for refusing to blow, so him having access to expensive lawyers is a mute point, otherwise it would be mandatory for everyone who refuses to give a sample, which it isnâ€™t.

Should it be, controversially I donâ€™t think so, itâ€™s simply an admission of guilt and can actually save police time and money by not giving a sample so you just receive your mandatory 12 month ban plus fine & costs, the only caveat being if itâ€™s not a first time offence then the mandatory ban is increased to a minimum of 3 years.

Thereâ€™s never a question of jail unless there are other mitigating circumstances, such as drugs found also or if involved in a collision, but if itâ€™s a routine (suspicious) stop and then a refusal to give a sample, your technically and automatically simply banning yourself.

Obviously the other scenario that omits all this confrontation at the roadside and in the station, is having a zero tolerance and removing the allowed amount of alcohol that be consumed, but thatâ€™s a complete different conversation for a different thread and topic.
		
Click to expand...

I think you read my post wrong or I never phrased it properly.
If I did exactly the same as him and was given 10 days in jail .
I canâ€™t afford a fancy lawyer to appeal and get me out.
So I am in jail thatâ€™s the difference.

And deservedly so imo.

It had nothing to do with the letter of the law!


----------



## fundy (Oct 5, 2019)

that looks pretty nasty for Lloris, your arms not supposed to bend like that


----------



## Norrin Radd (Oct 5, 2019)

Brighton are carving a new one for Spurs at the moment ,could end up a total thrashing at this rate.
*Seagulls !!!!!*


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2019)

Brighton certainly deserve this, something drastically wrong at spurs though.


----------



## anotherdouble (Oct 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Brighton certainly deserve this, something drastically wrong at spurs though.
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps fam the manager is not the messiah the fans thought he was or the players arenâ€™t as good as the fans thought they were or a mixture of both. Who knowsðŸ¤·â€â™‚ï¸ But I bet Hong Kong phooey knowsðŸ‘


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 5, 2019)

I wonder if not winning anything has finally broken the bond that made it work.


----------



## Reemul (Oct 5, 2019)

Personally if everyone that refuses a roadside and breath test at the station is getting jail time so should Saunders, not because he is an arse, ignorant, rude, beligerent etc.

Now no one else does, guy i used to work with caught 3 times over 10 years and never went to jail, now he should have been jailed.


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 5, 2019)

@Orikoru , begining of last season when you spent nothing I said you need to spend at least 50 million to stand still in this league 

Looks like I was right..you have defo gone backwards past 18 months 

10 goals in a week?!


----------



## anotherdouble (Oct 5, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



@Orikoru , begining of last season when you spent nothing I said you need to spend at least 50 million to stand still in this league

Looks like I was right..you have defo gone backwards past 18 months

10 goals in a week?!
		
Click to expand...

Was that the same person who said something along the lines of â€˜why do we need to buy as we have 2 players for every position and itâ€™s not worth buying top players who will just sit on the benchâ€™


----------



## PieMan (Oct 5, 2019)

At this rate Poch will be gone before OGS - who would've seen that coming!! ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 5, 2019)

PieMan said:



			At this rate Poch will be gone before OGS - who would've seen that coming!! ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

I get that shock wins happen in football 

But to follow up the other night with that is awful 

Brighton deserve their credit they made spurs look like school kids 

The manor of these defeats is worrying


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 5, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



@Orikoru , begining of last season when you spent nothing I said you need to spend at least 50 million to stand still in this league

Looks like I was right..you have defo gone backwards past 18 months

10 goals in a week?!
		
Click to expand...

We spent money this time. We were better off when we didn't.

Worst performance I've seen in a long long time. We are carrying way too many bodies at the moment. Only 3 or 4 of them actually look arsed. Our team peaked when we came 2nd behind Chelsea and it's nearly the end now. Poch will go, several players will go and we'll need to start building from scratch under a new boss. These things happen.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 5, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



@Orikoru , begining of last season when you spent nothing I said you need to spend at least 50 million to stand still in this league

Looks like I was right..you have defo gone backwards past 18 months

10 goals in a week?!
		
Click to expand...

18 months ? Really ? They may have had a poor start to the season this year but last year they were comfortable top 4 in the league and reached CL Final , this season they have gone backwards no doubt


----------



## anotherdouble (Oct 5, 2019)

Well I suppose these star players did win you the Audi cup for the cabinet.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			18 months ? Really ? They may have had a poor start to the season this year but last year they were comfortable top 4 in the league and reached CL Final , this season they have gone backwards no doubt
		
Click to expand...

The cracks were there last season, this calendar year I'd say. We got top four just because Utd and Arsenal were somehow even worse than us. Lot of luck involved in the Champs League run.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 5, 2019)

Spurs fans are now heading the same place as Arsenal fans when Wenger was around.

Before long some will want Poch to go and most (sensible supporters) will want to keep hold of him.

There will be ups and downs and they arenâ€™t particularly flush with cash. Poch is a top coach and they should stick with him and support him fully.

Who would do a better job? I canâ€™t think of anyone.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 5, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Spurs fans are now heading the same place as Arsenal fans when Wenger was around.

Before long some will want Poch to go and most (sensible supporters) will want to keep hold of him.

There will be ups and downs and they arenâ€™t particularly flush with cash. Poch is a top coach and they should stick with him and support him fully.

Who would do a better job? I canâ€™t think of anyone.
		
Click to expand...

I don't want him go but I expect him to walk away. The Utd job will be available shortly and they'll throw a lot of money his way unfortunately.


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			18 months ? Really ? They may have had a poor start to the season this year but last year they were comfortable top 4 in the league and reached CL Final , this season they have gone backwards no doubt
		
Click to expand...

Sorry 9 months
It's not just this season
They weren't comfortable top 4

Look since January


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 5, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Sorry 9 months
It's not just this season
They weren't comfortable top 4

Look since January
		
Click to expand...

Not had an away win since January


----------



## fundy (Oct 5, 2019)

This is what happens when one of your centre halfs thinks hes John Terry isnt it (allegedly)


----------



## Slime (Oct 5, 2019)

I think it all started to go badly wrong at Spurs in the Champions League final last year.
Moura got them through the semi-final with an outstanding performance and all three goals.
In the final he was dropped in favour of Kane ...................... and I think that was where it all started to go wrong.
Just my opinion.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 5, 2019)

Slime said:



			I think it all started to go badly wrong at Spurs in the Champions League final last year.
Moura got them through the semi-final with an outstanding performance and all three goals.
In the final he was dropped in favour of Kane ...................... and I think that was where it all started to go wrong.
Just my opinion.
		
Click to expand...

I can't understand how Lucas never gets a game. That was definitely the wrong decision in the final, but this season he's always on the bench as well. Today he came on and gave us our only two threatening efforts. What does he have to do to get in the side without a spate of injuries?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 5, 2019)

It doesnâ€™t help when the manager says he would leave if they won , Eriksen says he wants to leave , their two main CBâ€™s both donâ€™t want to be there , Ali has gone missing , lost their main RB spent millions on a DM when they have Wanyama , donâ€™t play Moura enough and they look to the penalty king for their goals.


----------



## Norrin Radd (Oct 5, 2019)

If Poch goes then Chris Houghton is available and is highly regarded at spurs lol


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It doesnâ€™t help when the manager says he would leave if they won , Eriksen says he wants to leave , their two main CBâ€™s both donâ€™t want to be there , Ali has gone missing , lost their main RB spent millions on a DM when they have Wanyama , donâ€™t play Moura enough and they look to the penalty king for their goals.
		
Click to expand...

When tripper left he said there was something brewing behind the scenes at spurs and he didn't want to be a part of it

Starting to show it's head it seems

Looks like managers lost the dressing rooms


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 5, 2019)

2 shots on target , 39% of the ball at home to Sheffield United 

Watford need a serious wake up call


----------



## Piece (Oct 5, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			2 shots on target , 39% of the ball at home to Sheffield United 

Watford need a serious wake up call
		
Click to expand...

Did you watch the game?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 5, 2019)

Well followed the game on twitter , seems like the Leicester players tried to hurt Salah and finally one of them did with a tackle that could have been a red , thankfully another win , will be interesting to see what Perez was going mental at


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 5, 2019)

Piece said:



			Did you watch the game?
		
Click to expand...

Is it not a fair reflection? Dion Dublin said both keepers kits don't need washing and Watford took off their strikers at 80 mins and pushed deleufeu up top on his own

Hardly great tactics at home.

Desperate for a win

Right now be lucky to be off the bottom by Xmas


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 5, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Not had an away win since January
		
Click to expand...

Talking of away  wins. Bury have  had an away win more recently than Utd.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well followed the game on twitter , seems like the Leicester players tried to hurt Salah and finally one of them did with a tackle that could have been a red , thankfully another win , will be interesting to see what Perez was going mental at
		
Click to expand...

Probably that the little scroat Mane dives again to win another penalty? 

I havenâ€™t seen it yet but I donâ€™t have to , an injury time pen involving Mane always equals cheating. 

You can see why opponents get wound up by the likes of Salah and Mane.


----------



## adam6177 (Oct 5, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Probably that the little scroat Mane dives again to win another penalty?

I havenâ€™t seen it yet but I donâ€™t have to , an injury time pen involving Mane always equals cheating.

You can see why opponents get wound up by the likes of Salah and Mane.
		
Click to expand...


ðŸ˜†ðŸ˜ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 5, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Probably that the little scroat Mane dives again to win another penalty?

I havenâ€™t seen it yet but I donâ€™t have to , an injury time pen involving Mane always equals cheating.

You can see why opponents get wound up by the likes of Salah and Mane.
		
Click to expand...


Really Sean , thatâ€™s both poor and really bitter ? It was penalty , no diving or cheating - they get wound up by then because they are both World Class players.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Really Sean , thatâ€™s both poor and really bitter ? *It was penalty , no diving or cheating* - they get wound up by then because they are both World Class players.
		
Click to expand...

Description on BBC Sport live text was that it was "soft" and that there was some contact "but then Mane dived" to win the penalty.

EDIT - Apologies that was a quote from Kevin Kilbane "I don't think it's a pen. There was contact initially and then Mane dived. I think he fell over and dived to win the penalty. Not overturned because it's not a clear and obvious error".


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 5, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Description on BBC Sport live text was that it was "soft" and that there was some contact "but then Mane dived" to win the penalty.

EDIT - Apologies that was a quote from Kevin Kilbane "I don't think it's a pen. There was contact initially and then Mane dived. I think he fell over and dived to win the penalty. Not overturned because it's not a clear and obvious error".
		
Click to expand...

Just seen the replay on the Sky Sports App and the guy has kicked him on the back of the leg , itâ€™s a foul all day long , went to VAR and they show the kick as well.

And is that Kilbane the ex Everton player ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜†


----------



## ColchesterFC (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just seen the replay on the Sky Sports App and the guy has kicked him on the back of the leg ,* itâ€™s a foul all day long ,* went to VAR and they show the kick as well.

And is that *Kilbane the ex Everton player* ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜†
		
Click to expand...

Ex-Everton player says is wasn't a penalty and was a dive.

Current Liverpool fan says it was a penalty and wasn't a dive.

I haven't seen the incident so can't tell who is wearing the darker tinted specs.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 5, 2019)

Was this another of those , he was touched so he has the right to go down ones?

Or did the kick force him down to the ground?

Thatâ€™s really the nub of it, did he choose or was he forced to the ground?

Will wait and see later and I will be the first to apologise on here.


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 5, 2019)




----------



## Slime (Oct 5, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Talking of away  wins. Bury have  had an away win more recently than Utd.
		
Click to expand...

......................... and we've beaten Chelsea 4-0 more recently than City.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well followed the game on twitter , *seems like the Leicester players tried to hurt Salah and finally one of them did with a tackle that could have been a red* , thankfully another win , will be interesting to see what Perez was going mental at
		
Click to expand...

It wasnt the leicester team, it was  an awful tackle by Chowdhury. It was right in front of me, shocking. As soon as Mo never got up after a while I knew he was injured. 

Chowdhury has got previous aswell.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Probably that the little scroat Mane dives again to win another penalty?

I havenâ€™t seen it yet but I donâ€™t have to , an injury time pen involving Mane always equals cheating.

You can see why opponents get wound up by the likes of Salah and Mane.
		
Click to expand...

Wow, what a post. Do you really believe this rubbish you post? 

For clarification ,It was checked by VAR.


----------



## Slime (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Really Sean , thatâ€™s both poor and really bitter ? It was penalty , no diving or cheating - they get wound up by then because they are both World Class players.
		
Click to expand...




Liverpoolphil said:



			Well followed the game on twitter , *seems like the Leicester players tried to hurt Salah and finally one of them did* with a tackle that could have been a red , thankfully another win , will be interesting to see what Perez was going mental at
		
Click to expand...

Really Phil, that just sounds bitter ......................... especially for someone who only followed the game on Twitter!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 5, 2019)

Slime said:



			Really Phil, that just sounds bitter ......................... especially for someone who only followed the game on Twitter!
		
Click to expand...

How does it sound bitter then when Salah has been injured by a very poor tackle


----------



## Piece (Oct 5, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Is it not a fair reflection? Dion Dublin said both keepers kits don't need washing and Watford took off their strikers at 80 mins and pushed deleufeu up top on his own

Hardly great tactics at home.

Desperate for a win

Right now be lucky to be off the bottom by Xmas
		
Click to expand...

Haha. I was at the game and I will strongly disagree with Mr Dublin. Not the first time a pundit has talked rubbish. We missed three clear cut chances and should have won the game. Sheff U were ok and organised but offered nothing in attack.

One striker, Gray, was taken off after 60 for Deulofeu and after 75, Welbeck, for Sarr. Could have brought on a defender to shore up a point, but chose to go for it.

Leicester won a Premier League having less than 50% possession so not sure what your point was.


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 5, 2019)

Slime said:



			Really Phil, that just sounds bitter ......................... especially for someone who only followed the game on Twitter!
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 5, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180514939984863232
Not the best view and the video will probably be blocked shortly, but that looks a foul.


----------



## dronfield (Oct 5, 2019)

Piece said:



			Did you watch the game?
		
Click to expand...

I listened to the Radio Sheffield commentary - sounds like Blades had more possession but created no clear chances. Watford had best chances and Henderson made 2 top saves?

Rich


----------



## Piece (Oct 5, 2019)

dronfield said:



			I listened to the Radio Sheffield commentary - sounds like Blades had more possession but created no clear chances. Watford had best chances and Henderson made 2 top saves?

Rich
		
Click to expand...

Correct Rich. Sheff U were tidy in possession but nothing came of it really. Henderson made the saves being in the right place, yet really he should haven't had to make them as they were two poor, poor attempts.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			It wasnt the leicester team, it was  an awful tackle by Chowdhury. It was right in front of me, shocking. As soon as Mo never got up after a while I knew he was injured.

Chowdhury has got previous aswell.
		
Click to expand...

Klopp certainly not happy about it , they didnâ€™t show it on the Sky highlights but mentioned it on Soccer Saturday and said it was a red all day ?


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Klopp certainly not happy about it , they didnâ€™t show it on the Sky highlights but mentioned it on Soccer Saturday and said it was a red all day ?
		
Click to expand...

It was one of those tactical fouls  where the oppo player takes out a forward breaking forward but this was over the top.


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 5, 2019)

What makes me sick about you Liverpool fans on here is your totally biased blinkered opinions.
Bleating about Salah being targeted but no mention of AA challenge where he raked the Achilles of the Leicester player.
Wether it was a penalty or not Mane reaction was an embarrassment writhing around like he was seriously injured.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			It was one of those tactical fouls  where the oppo player takes out a forward breaking forward but this was over the top.
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™ll have to wait to see MOTD to see if they highlight - seems Perez reacted because Robbo was celebrating and accidentally knocked into him ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Iâ€™ll have to wait to see MOTD to see if they highlight - seems Perez reacted because Robbo was celebrating and accidentally knocked into him ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Perez celebrated in front of Robbo when they equalised, Robbo returned the action when we won the game. Fair do's in my book.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 5, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			What makes me sick about you Liverpool fans on here is your totally biased blinkered opinions.
Bleating about Salah being targeted but no mention of AA challenge where he raked the Achilles of the Leicester player.
Wether it was a penalty or not Mane reaction was an embarrassment writhing around like he was seriously injured.
		
Click to expand...

Have you ever heard a Liverpool fan on here call out one of their players for cheating?

I canâ€™t recall a time.


----------



## GG26 (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well followed the game on twitter , seems like the Leicester players tried to hurt Salah and finally one of them did with a tackle that could have been a red , thankfully another win , will be interesting to see what Perez was going mental at
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s a shocking accusation against the whole Leicester team when what we are talking about is one bad tackle by one individual.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 5, 2019)

Now thatâ€™s a great example of VAR at its best.

A good goal from Palace that would not have been given without it.ðŸ‘


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 5, 2019)

GG26 said:



			Thatâ€™s a shocking accusation against the whole Leicester team when what we are talking about is one bad tackle by one individual.
		
Click to expand...

6 fouls against Salah today apparently, was taken out a number of times , as I said could only go by the twitter reports of the game , but it seems Itâ€™s not as shocking as the tackle from Choudhury


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			6 fouls against Salah today apparently, was taken out a number of times , as I said could only go by the twitter reports of the game , but it seems Itâ€™s not as shocking as the tackle from Choudhury
		
Click to expand...

You not at the game Phillip?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 5, 2019)

Good to see Klopp deflecting from the Dive by Mane and playing the poor us card ðŸ™„


----------



## dronfield (Oct 5, 2019)

Piece said:



			Correct Rich. Sheff U were tidy in possession but nothing came of it really. Henderson made the saves being in the right place, yet really he should haven't had to make them as they were two poor, poor attempts.
		
Click to expand...

Cheers Piece - they did say that Gray missed an absolute sitter early on from about 3 yards! 
Not seen any "highlights" yet but expect us to be last game on MOTD.

Rich


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well followed the game on twitter , seems like the Leicester players tried to hurt Salah and finally one of them did with a tackle that could have been a red , thankfully another win , will be interesting to see what Perez was going mental at
		
Click to expand...

That reminds me of a blue who rang into the aftermatch phone in and said "Sharpie, Sharpie!! I listened to the whole match on the radio, and we just dont look fit!


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			What makes me sick about you Liverpool fans on here is your totally biased blinkered opinions.
Bleating about Salah being targeted but no mention of AA challenge where he raked the Achilles of the Leicester player.
Wether it was a penalty or not Mane reaction was an embarrassment writhing around like he was seriously injured.
		
Click to expand...

Sick you say? ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

If this post is aimed at me, I only seen the AA/Teilemens from afar and couldn't see it.  The Choudhury challenge on Mo was 20ft in front of me. 

Again the Mane foul was the other side of the pitch and there was few bodies in my view so it was hard to tell. I've only seen the pen via the link above and it's a pen. 

As for him making a meal of it, I agree it's an embarrassment but at the same time it's part of the game and  it's been happening for last  15yrs by every teams players. It will never stop.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 5, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			What makes me sick about you Liverpool fans on here is your totally biased blinkered opinions.
Bleating about Salah being targeted but no mention of AA challenge where he raked the Achilles of the Leicester player.
Wether it was a penalty or not Mane reaction was an embarrassment writhing around like he was seriously injured.
		
Click to expand...

At least a few of us go the match, so have a right to get a bit uppety.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 5, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Have you ever heard a Liverpool fan on here call out one of their players for cheating?

I canâ€™t recall a time.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, quite a few times.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			That reminds me of a blue who rang into the aftermatch phone in and said "Sharpie, Sharpie!! I listened to the whole match on the radio, and we just dont look fit! 

Click to expand...

Just the last ten mins on the 5 live - no mention of fitness ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Have you ever heard a Liverpool fan on here call out one of their players for cheating?

I canâ€™t recall a time.
		
Click to expand...

You must keep up Sawtooth, but then again it's probably too hard with every other clubs fans on here continuously berating their own players for cheating ðŸ‘


----------



## fundy (Oct 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			You must keep up Sawtooth, but then again it's probably too hard with every other clubs fans on here continuously berating their own players for cheating ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...


I do it all the time  as well as berating them for plenty of other things lol

At least i realise who youre talking to after several days now haha, was getting worried about you


----------



## Jensen (Oct 5, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			You not at the game Phillip?
		
Click to expand...

He's never been past the Watford Gap and would struggle to find Anfield with a sat nav ðŸ™„


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 5, 2019)

Jensen said:



			He's never been past the Watford Gap and would struggle to find Anfield with a sat nav ðŸ™„
		
Click to expand...

Wow - I amazed you know me so well and know exactly where I have lived through the years.

Maybe as a Spurs fan you should concentrate on your own shower of muck instead having digs at me


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			At least a few of us go the match, so have a right to get a bit uppety.
		
Click to expand...

This is very true Pete Iâ€™ve done my time on the terraces though.
You must be embarrassed reading about hearing it on Twitter or the radio.


----------



## Jensen (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wow - I amazed you know me so well and know exactly where I have lived through the years.

Maybe as a Spurs fan you should concentrate on your own shower of muck instead having digs at me
		
Click to expand...




Liverpoolphil said:



			Wow - I amazed you know me so well and know exactly where I have lived through the years.

Maybe as a Spurs fan you should concentrate on your own shower of muck instead having digs at me
		
Click to expand...

Ah, hit a nerve there did I. Maybe you should get back on to Twitter, even your fellow fan mocked you ðŸ˜‚

Anyway how do you follow a match on Twitter ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚knob


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			6 fouls against Salah today apparently, was taken out a number of times , as I said could only go by the twitter reports of the game , but it seems Itâ€™s not as shocking as the tackle from Choudhury
		
Click to expand...

He was fouled but they weren't malicious, though Jonny Evans wrestled him to the floor then argued about the card he received. 

The ref was poor for both sides before giving the stonewall penðŸ˜‰


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 5, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Have you ever heard a Liverpool fan on here call out one of their players for cheating?

I canâ€™t recall a time.
		
Click to expand...

To be honest yes I have.
Proper supporters will because itâ€™s the scourge of the game.
Blinkered fans are the worst especially the ones who comment things off Twitter or the radio.


----------



## Jensen (Oct 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			He was fouled but they weren't malicious, though Jonny Evans wrestled him to the floor then argued about the card he received.

The ref was poor for both sides before giving the stonewall penðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

He'll get back to you on that Stu once he's digested Twitter ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜œ


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Sick you say? ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

If this post is aimed at me, I only seen the AA/Teilemens from afar and couldn't see it.  The Choudhury challenge on Mo was 20ft in front of me.

Again the Mane foul was the other side of the pitch and there was few bodies in my view so it was hard to tell. I've only seen the pen via the link above and it's a pen.

As for him making a meal of it, I agree it's an embarrassment but at the same time it's part of the game and  it's been happening for last  15yrs by every teams players. It will never stop.
		
Click to expand...

Christ Iâ€™m surprised you go Stu you canâ€™t see sod all


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 5, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Ah, hit a nerve there did I. Maybe you should get back on to Twitter, even your fellow fan mocked you ðŸ˜‚

Anyway how do you follow a match on Twitter ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚knob
		
Click to expand...

Maybe people having digs at me ( not sure why tbh ) - is helping them ignore the issues surrounding their own team , surprised you havenâ€™t got anything to say about Spurs result today - was that ten goals let in now over the last two games 

As for following a game on twitter - well itâ€™s  even simple enough for you - you follow journalists and Liverpool based websites who then live report the game ðŸ‘ simples


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 5, 2019)

2 times in 2 weeks VAR rules a goal back onside against us

No complaints correct decision just wish the lineos would stop flagging them off lol useless

Makes you wonder how many they get wrong


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 5, 2019)

Piece said:



			Haha. I was at the game and I will strongly disagree with Mr Dublin. Not the first time a pundit has talked rubbish. We missed three clear cut chances and should have won the game. Sheff U were ok and organised but offered nothing in attack.

One striker, Gray, was taken off after 60 for Deulofeu and after 75, Welbeck, for Sarr. Could have brought on a defender to shore up a point, but chose to go for it.

Leicester won a Premier League having less than 50% possession so not sure what your point was.
		
Click to expand...

Leicester was a freak season of a perfect storm

Their team now plays better football than the football that won them the league.

You were at home. Your in a relegation battle , should be troubljng the keeper a lot more than twice.

Going to be a long season for you guys. Don't think you will cling on


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			Christ Iâ€™m surprised you go Stu you canâ€™t see sod all 

Click to expand...

I know I'm turning into Wenger...... but it's better than following it on twitter ðŸ‘


----------



## ColchesterFC (Oct 5, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			Christ Iâ€™m surprised you go Stu you canâ€™t see sod all 

Click to expand...

Maybe now he's retired from Arsenal Stu has borrowed Wenger's glasses. He never saw anything either. 

EDIT - Damn you Stu for beating me to it.


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe people having digs at me ( not sure why tbh ) - is helping them ignore the issues surrounding their own team , surprised you havenâ€™t got anything to say about Spurs result today - was that ten goals let in now over the last two games

As for following a game on twitter - well itâ€™s  even simple enough for you - you follow journalists and Liverpool based websites who then live report the game ðŸ‘ simples
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely embarrassing 
Liverpool based websites lmao like they wonâ€™t be biased


----------



## Jensen (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe people having digs at me ( not sure why tbh ) - is helping them ignore the issues surrounding their own team , surprised you havenâ€™t got anything to say about Spurs result today - was that ten goals let in now over the last two games

As for following a game on twitter - well itâ€™s  even simple enough for you - you follow journalists and Liverpool based websites who then live report the game ðŸ‘ simples
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. I'm off to log on to Twitter so I can find out about the shambles going on at Spurs ðŸ˜„ðŸ˜„


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wow - I amazed you know me so well and know exactly where I have lived through the years.

Maybe as a Spurs fan you should concentrate on your own shower of muck instead having digs at me
		
Click to expand...

Seriously tho Phil you must be the BIGGEST Liverpool â€œfanâ€ that NEVER goes to Anfield ðŸ˜‚. 

But hey you stuck Liverpool In front of your name on a golf forum ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Jensen (Oct 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I know I'm turning into Wenger...... but it's better than following it on twitter ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## JamesR (Oct 5, 2019)

Nice to see another victory for the mighty Burnley ðŸ¤©


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 5, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Thanks for that. I'm off to log on to Twitter so I can find out about the shambles going on at Spurs ðŸ˜„ðŸ˜„
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2019)

JamesR said:



			Nice to see another victory for the mighty Burnley ðŸ¤©
		
Click to expand...

The Bloooooooooossss were fuming on Radio merseyside today, them getting beat and "the devils" club getting a "lucky pen" has tipped them over the edge ðŸ˜‚


----------



## JamesR (Oct 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The Bloooooooooossss were fuming on Radio merseyside today, them getting beat and "the devils" club getting a "lucky pen" has tipped them over the edge ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Youâ€™d think theyâ€™d have expected to loseðŸ˜­...werenâ€™t they after our manager a year or so back?


----------



## Jensen (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 28331

Click to expand...

I know we've conceded a few, but even Twitter doesn't say as many as 40 ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 5, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			Seriously tho Phil you must be the BIGGEST Liverpool â€œfanâ€ that NEVER goes to Anfield ðŸ˜‚.

But hey you stuck Liverpool In front of your name on a golf forum ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s because nobody knew


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2019)

JamesR said:



			Youâ€™d think theyâ€™d have expected to loseðŸ˜­...werenâ€™t they after our manager a year or so back?
		
Click to expand...

He's too good for that lot.

Allardyce is their level but they just cant accept it. Even funnier they've spunked loads of dosh on utter shite since "Moysie "left.

One of the favourite sayings was " imagine Moysie with money,lad" ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Other one was "Bolaise is better than Mane" ðŸ¤­ðŸ¤­


----------



## fundy (Oct 5, 2019)

Its day like this Im glad weve not played


----------



## Jensen (Oct 5, 2019)

As I can't watch live Spurs games since my dodgy box went down, I'll now start following them live on TwitterðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Phil, you must have come up with the greatest ever statement on this thread....Twitter ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Piece (Oct 5, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Leicester was a freak season of a perfect storm

Their team now plays better football than the football that won them the league.

You were at home. Your in a relegation battle , should be troubljng the keeper a lot more than twice.

Going to be a long season for you guys. Don't think you will cling on
		
Click to expand...

You may be right. Or maybe weâ€™ll do what you and Newcastle did last season and get out of a â€˜relegation battleâ€™, after 8 games, and finish mid table. ðŸ˜‰

Leicester freak season. Donâ€™t follow. They won games and got enough points to win the league. The other werenâ€™t good enough. Nothing freaky for me there.


----------



## Piece (Oct 5, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Thanks for that. I'm off to log on to Twitter so I can find out about the shambles going on at Spurs ðŸ˜„ðŸ˜„
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™ll do the same for Watford ðŸ˜‚


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 5, 2019)

Piece said:



			You may be right. Or maybe weâ€™ll do what you and Newcastle did last season and get out of a â€˜relegation battleâ€™, after 8 games, and finish mid table.

Leicester freak season. Donâ€™t follow. They won games and got enough points to win the league. The other werenâ€™t good enough. Nothing freaky for me there.
		
Click to expand...

The perfect storm. All the top teams at once were poor 

They discovered a jewel in kante and then had bugger all injuries to their key players 

Drinkwater long ball to vardy , goal 

Ffs that season we were a couple wins off champs league it was mental season 

You won't see a season like that again for s long while if ever


----------



## JamesR (Oct 5, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			The perfect storm. All the top teams at once were poor

They discovered a jewel in kante and then had bugger all injuries to their key players

*Drinkwater* *long* *ball* to vardy , goal

Ffs that season we were a couple wins off champs league it was mental season

You won't see a season like that again for s long while if ever
		
Click to expand...

What about Mahrezâ€™s brilliant play?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 5, 2019)

Jensen said:



			As I can't watch live Spurs games since my dodgy box went down, I'll now start following them live on TwitterðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Phil, you must have come up with the greatest ever statement on this thread....Twitter ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™m not exactly sure what you see as so funny ? 

Have you not followed the game on say the live text on BBC ? Itâ€™s just a social media platform with someone at the game describing the action - some do it over the Radio , some on telly and a popular one is a live feed.

If you are not up with the modern social mediaâ€™s then I must apologise but Twitter is a nice way to follow a sporting occasions when there is no other way to follow. 

Millions follow games on live feeds on twitter ? Maybe Spurs havenâ€™t hit that level yet


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 5, 2019)

JamesR said:



			What about Mahrezâ€™s brilliant play?
		
Click to expand...

He was fantastic but a lot of their play was the pace of vardy 

They play much nicer football now they look good , fancy them for top 4


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			He was fantastic but a lot of their play was the pace of vardy

They play much nicer football now they look good , fancy them for top 4
		
Click to expand...

On today's performance, they're the best of the rest of I've seen.  They nullified our midfield but they didnt create much other than the goal. I thought we deserved to win though overall.


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			On today's performance, they're the best of the rest of I've seen.  They nullified our midfield but they didnt create much other than the goal. I thought we deserved to win though overall.
		
Click to expand...

Madison is a very very talented player


----------



## PieMan (Oct 5, 2019)

Slime said:



			......................... and we've beaten Chelsea 4-0 more recently than City. 

Click to expand...

Treasure that memory Slime - going to be the highlight of your season!!! #olesathewheel ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Madison is a very very talented player
		
Click to expand...

Bit greedy but yeah agree. They're a very good side, Soyuncu (sp) their CB is superb. 

They'll give a few teams a hiding.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Iâ€™m not exactly sure what you see as so funny ?

Have you not followed the game on say the live text on BBC ? Itâ€™s just a social media platform with someone at the game describing the action - some do it over the Radio , some on telly and a popular one is a live feed.

If you are not up with the modern social mediaâ€™s then I must apologise but Twitter is a nice way to follow a sporting occasions when there is no other way to follow.

Millions follow games on live feeds on twitter ? Maybe Spurs havenâ€™t hit that level yet
		
Click to expand...

There is actually another way to follow Phil ðŸ‘ðŸ»ðŸ‘ðŸ»

You have to take what you read on Twitter with a pinch of salt,as I suspect the things that you follow are slightly biased. 

Also letâ€™s not forget last week when you argued the toss over a bad tackle after seeing it on social media ðŸ˜³ðŸ˜‚

Marvellous


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Bit greedy but yeah agree. They're a very good side, Soyuncu (sp) their CB is superb.

They'll give a few teams a hiding.
		
Click to expand...

Can see why they didn't replace maguire knowing he was in reserve


----------



## JamesR (Oct 5, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			There is actually another way to follow Phil ðŸ‘ðŸ»ðŸ‘ðŸ»

You have to take what you read on Twitter with a pinch of salt,as I suspect the things that you follow are slightly biased.

Also letâ€™s not forget last week when you argued the toss over a bad tackle after seeing it on social media ðŸ˜³ðŸ˜‚

Marvellous
		
Click to expand...

You know they show actual footage on Twitter?
Maybe you could check it out, rather than just reading Philâ€™s posts


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 5, 2019)

JamesR said:



			You know they show actual footage on Twitter?
Maybe you could check it out, rather than just reading Philâ€™s posts
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™ll try that,cheers for the tip ðŸ‘ðŸ»


----------



## JamesR (Oct 5, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			Iâ€™ll try that,cheers for the tip ðŸ‘ðŸ»
		
Click to expand...

My pleasure, you seem like you need plenty of help


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 5, 2019)

JamesR said:



			My pleasure, you seem like you need plenty of help
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜˜


----------



## GG26 (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			6 fouls against Salah today apparently, was taken out a number of times , as I said could only go by the twitter reports of the game , but it seems Itâ€™s not as shocking as the tackle from Choudhury
		
Click to expand...

Having now seen the highlights the most dangerous tackle was the one by TAA on Tielemans - nasty and deliberate.  Could have caused a serious injury.  Choudrey on Salah was late and from behind, but not dangerous and not anywhere near as likely to cause an injury as the challenge last week on Praet which you didnâ€™t have a problem with.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 5, 2019)

GG26 said:



			Having now seen the highlights the most dangerous tackle was the one by TAA on Tielemans - nasty and deliberate.  Could have caused a serious injury.  Choudrey on Salah was late and from behind, but not dangerous and not anywhere near as likely to cause an injury as the challenge last week on Praet which you didnâ€™t have a problem with.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah seen a few people on Twitter say the same thing about the TAA challenge.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 5, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180588807390842881
Blimey hope Mane is ok


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 5, 2019)

GG26 said:



			Thatâ€™s a shocking accusation against the whole Leicester team when what we are talking about is one bad tackle by one individual.
		
Click to expand...


 Fair does, the most rash tackle before the chaudhry one was by Milly who luckily missed with his sliding tackle.

It wasnt a dirty game but a game poorly officiated (for both sides) by massive inconsistencies by the ref, and stopping the game every minute for daft little fouls.

That no.4 for you was impressive, the Turkish fella.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2019)

GG26 said:



			Having now seen the highlights the most dangerous tackle was the one by TAA on Tielemans - nasty and deliberate.  Could have caused a serious injury.  *Choudrey on Salah was late and from behind, but not dangerous and not anywhere near as likely to cause an injury *as the challenge last week on Praet which you didnâ€™t have a problem with.
		
Click to expand...

Disagree with this, Mo is pretty much running at full pelt, choudhurys only thought is to stop him and take him out. That was in front of me and it was a bad enough tackle to make him go off injured. 

Hayden's initial challenge was a fair attempt to win the ball, I dont think it was a tactical take the man 1st.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 5, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			This is very true Pete Iâ€™ve done my time on the terraces though.
You must be embarrassed reading about hearing it on Twitter or the radio.
		
Click to expand...

Although on twitter,dont really do it and talk sport is hardly the bastion of fair-minded (and intended) journalism, so stick with the local radio, as the're dead biased.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2019)

Mane has gone down there too easy, I'm sure our resident Ref homer can clarify the rule, I'm thinking the pen was given because Albrighton impeded Mane who had control of the ball, as opposed to throwing himself to the ground?

Either way it makes up for the blatant one we never got last year against Leicester ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 5, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180597512819724288
Seems to be every week now. 
Needs to stop.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 5, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180588807390842881
Blimey hope Mane is ok
		
Click to expand...

100% Mane conned the ref and VAR and quite a few diehard Liverpool fans too.

Leaves his left leg behind to ensure contact then dives to the ground.

The clincher for me is that he rolls around holding his right shin! Such a cheat.

Oh but thereâ€™s contact he earnt the right to go down? No, not if he engineered the contact and not if the contact was minuscule.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 5, 2019)

GG26 said:



			Having now seen the highlights the most dangerous tackle was the one by TAA on Tielemans - nasty and deliberate.  Could have caused a serious injury.  Choudrey on Salah was late and from behind, but not dangerous and not anywhere near as likely to cause an injury as the challenge last week on Praet which you didnâ€™t have a problem with.
		
Click to expand...

Inverted bias, right there. TAA's tackle was a poor technique, but look at the angles and I'd say he didnt mean to do him, but he did land on his achilles and a yellow would have been right.

Choudry meant to get Mo all day long. The tackle looked worse at the match, but after seeing it on the telly would also say just a yellow.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 5, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			100% Mane conned the ref and VAR and quite a few diehard Liverpool fans too.

Leaves his left leg behind to ensure contact then dives to the ground.

The clincher for me is that he rolls around holding his right shin! Such a cheat.

Oh but thereâ€™s contact he earnt the right to go down? No, not if he engineered the contact and not if the contact was minuscule.
		
Click to expand...

You'd made your mind up 4 hours ago, so whats the point.........

So everything Albrighton did was a 100% legal challenge??????


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 5, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			100% Mane conned the ref and VAR and quite a few diehard Liverpool fans too.

Leaves his left leg behind to ensure contact then dives to the ground.

The clincher for me is that he rolls around holding his right shin! Such a cheat.

Oh but thereâ€™s contact he earnt the right to go down? No, not if he engineered the contact and not if the contact was minuscule.
		
Click to expand...

Refs have got no chance when players are rolling around like like this.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			You'd made your mind up 4 hours ago, so whats the point.........

So everything Albrighton did was a 100% legal challenge??????
		
Click to expand...

Wind your neck in lad,obviously the media will go easy because heâ€™s a Liverpool player ðŸ‘ðŸ»


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			You'd made your mind up 4 hours ago, so whats the point.........

So everything Albrighton did was 10% legal challenge??????
		
Click to expand...

Maneâ€™s got form, itâ€™s the 95th minute, it had all the hallmarks.

But Iâ€™ve seen it and I know a dive when I see one.

Itâ€™s not surprising that you, Stu and Phil canâ€™t see anything but a legit penalty. I can see why, I get it.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 5, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Maneâ€™s got form, itâ€™s the 95th minute, it had all the hallmarks.

But Iâ€™ve seen it and I know a dive when I see one.

Itâ€™s not surprising that you, Stu and Phil canâ€™t see anything but a legit penalty. I can see why, I get it.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on,itâ€™s a desperate last attempt to win the game at all costs. 
Sadly itâ€™s part of the modern game,but itâ€™s still blatant cheating.

If anyone in a different shirt does it next week then I suspect people will change their tune ðŸ¤·â€â™‚ï¸


----------



## Jensen (Oct 5, 2019)

Lloris just had shocker there, his body wasn't set right nor were his legs.
Brighton seem to have played at a high tempo and credit to them. 
Spurs are an embarrassing disgrace


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 5, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Maneâ€™s got form, itâ€™s the 95th minute, it had all the hallmarks.

But Iâ€™ve seen it and I know a dive when I see one.

Itâ€™s not surprising that you, Stu and Phil canâ€™t see anything but a legit penalty. I can see why, I get it.
		
Click to expand...

We all own Wenger glasses, lar.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			We all own Wenger glasses, lar.
		
Click to expand...

Nah youâ€™ve got your own glasses you lot ðŸ¤“


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			100% Mane conned the ref and VAR and quite a few diehard Liverpool fans too.

Leaves his left leg behind to ensure contact then dives to the ground.

The clincher for me is that he rolls around holding his right shin! Such a cheat.

Oh but thereâ€™s contact he earnt the right to go down? No, not if he engineered the contact and not if the contact was minuscule.
		
Click to expand...

You do realise the pen was checked by a ref 100's of miles away? If he had "conned" the ref the VAR ref wouldve flagged it up. 100%

To quote a forummer.....

Are you a professional arbiter of the rules of football?

If the answer is 'no', then your statement is an opinion.

The referees apply the rules as dictated by the ruling bodies. So their ruling is more valid than your opinion (which incidentally is the same as my opinion)

ðŸ‘


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 5, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			We all own Wenger glasses, lar.
		
Click to expand...

That would only make sense if you all claimed not to have seen it.ðŸ‘


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Maneâ€™s got form, itâ€™s the 95th minute, it had all the hallmarks.

But Iâ€™ve seen it and I know a dive when I see one.

Itâ€™s not surprising that you, Stu and Phil canâ€™t see anything but a legit penalty. I can see why, I get it.
		
Click to expand...

Ahem, see #3345 ðŸ‘


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			You do realise the pen was checked by a ref 100's of miles away? If he had "conned" the ref the VAR ref wouldve flagged it up. 100%

To quote a forummer.....

Are you a professional arbiter of the rules of football?

If the answer is 'no', then your statement is an opinion.

The referees apply the rules as dictated by the ruling bodies. So their ruling is more valid than your opinion (which incidentally is the same as my opinion)

ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Got to love VAR


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			You do realise the pen was checked by a ref 100's of miles away? If he had "conned" the ref the VAR ref wouldve flagged it up. 100%

To quote a forummer.....

Are you a professional arbiter of the rules of football?

If the answer is 'no', then your statement is an opinion.

The referees apply the rules as dictated by the ruling bodies. So their ruling is more valid than your opinion (which incidentally is the same as my opinion)

ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

The system is flawed. The ref gave it and it seems that VAR is unlikely to overturn it.

Youâ€™re right itâ€™s only my opinion it counts for nothing but Iâ€™m confident that on this occasion Mane didnâ€™t con me at least.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			The system is flawed. The ref gave it and it seems that VAR is unlikely to overturn it.

Youâ€™re right itâ€™s only my opinion it counts for nothing but Iâ€™m confident that on this occasion Mane didnâ€™t con me at least.
		
Click to expand...

If it's wrong I'm confident VAR will overturn it. 

The issue I see is, penalties have been given since late 90's early 00's on the basis theres contact. Now I dont see all contact as pens but the more wrong pens have been given, the more acceptable the next one is. 

Mane has gone down way too easy but theres contact. How do we measure if it's enough contact to warrant a pen?


----------



## fundy (Oct 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			If it's wrong I'm confident VAR will overturn it. 

The issue I see is, penalties have been given since late 90's early 00's on the basis theres contact. Now I dont see all contact as pens but the more wrong pens have been given, the more acceptable the next one is. 

Mane has gone down way too easy but theres contact. How do we measure if it's enough contact to warrant a pen?
		
Click to expand...


Do you really believe that first line Stu? Seriously? Currently VAR is measuring offsides to an accuracy it cant actually measure to based on when the ball is kicked and backing up the refs unless they really dont have to (bit like umps call in the cricket)

Youre right theyve been doing it too long but sooooooo many of them (Manes included) are just so unnatural its clear theyve thown themselves to the floor on the tiniest of contacts. As you say though, until they change the rules and how they are applied, they will all keep cheating and plenty will keep getting away with it. Doesnt make it right though


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 6, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			If it's wrong I'm confident VAR will overturn it.

The issue I see is, penalties have been given since late 90's early 00's on the basis theres contact. Now I dont see all contact as pens but the more wrong pens have been given, the more acceptable the next one is.

Mane has gone down way too easy but theres contact. How do we measure if it's enough contact to warrant a pen?
		
Click to expand...

Penalty or not by the letter of the law,we can all use our own eyes & judgement to make a decision if he is pulling a fast one. 
Fair play to him he salvaged a win.


----------



## davemc1 (Oct 6, 2019)

I was made up when I saw there was 4 pages after our game had finished. Got half way thru an got bored

Expected the usual blah but heck, yous are the worst

Whereâ€™s the fun gone?


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 6, 2019)

fundy said:



*Do you really believe that first line Stu? Seriously?* Currently VAR is measuring offsides to an accuracy it cant actually measure to based on when the ball is kicked and backing up the refs unless they really dont have to (bit like umps call in the cricket)

Youre right theyve been doing it too long but sooooooo many of them (Manes included) are just so unnatural its clear theyve thown themselves to the floor on the tiniest of contacts. As you say though, until they change the rules and how they are applied, they will all keep cheating and plenty will keep getting away with it. Doesnt make it right though
		
Click to expand...

Yes I am. Theres no way  if theres no contact that pen stands. If theres no contact do you think the pen stands?

I'm against VAR,especially this current crap, it's not what the game needs right now.

Your last paragraph I totally  agree with you.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 6, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			I was made up when I saw there was 4 pages after our game had finished. Got half way thru an got bored

Expected the usual blah but heck, yous are the worst

Whereâ€™s the fun gone?
		
Click to expand...

Calm down soft lad and watch your potty mouth ðŸ‘ðŸ»


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 6, 2019)

Manes gone down very late and it looks soft imo.
But you have to ask what is Albrighton doing kicking him in the box .
He has given the ref a decision to make ,but if Mane stays on his feet he wonâ€™t give it.
Mane is facing away from the goal just donâ€™t let him turn!
Thought VAR would sort this out but itâ€™s ok for offside,, the rest is just someone giving an opinion from 200 miles away.

Anyone tackling like Chourdry on Salah to just break up play should be red ,itâ€™s the only way to stop it.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 6, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Manes gone down very late and it looks soft imo.
But you have to ask what is Albrighton doing kicking him in the box .
He has given the ref a decision to make ,but if Mane stays on his feet he wonâ€™t give it.
Mane is facing away from the goal just donâ€™t let him turn!
Thought VAR would sort this out but itâ€™s ok for offside,, the rest is just someone giving an opinion from 200 miles away.

Anyone tackling like Chourdry on Salah to just break up play should be red ,itâ€™s the only way to stop it.
		
Click to expand...

Any thoughts on Trents challenge?


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 6, 2019)

Just watched it on Sky. Thats a penalty all day long. Does Mane roll around like a tart. Yes. But he still would have falllen as his leg wasn't planted.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 6, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Just watched it on Sky. Thats a penalty all day long. Does Mane roll around like a tart. Yes. But he still would have falllen as his leg wasn't planted.
		
Click to expand...

If this was the first minute of the game and Mane was in the middle of the pitch he stays on his feet and carries on.

But itâ€™s the 95th minute, his team need a goal, heâ€™s in the penalty area, facing away from goal, surrounded by opponents,  the chance of a goal has gone, he does whatever he can to make sure there is contact , any contact, then goes down, rolls around and forgets what leg he cheated with as he holds the wrong one, Clearly it was convincing as he conned the ref and VAR is reluctant to override a refs judgement. 

And by the letter of the law as Stu pointed out , contact however small seems to satisfy criteria nowadays for a pen. Whilst that mindset exists itâ€™s open season for people like Mane Iâ€™m afraid.


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 6, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			If this was the first minute of the game and Mane was in the middle of the pitch he stays on his feet and carries on.

But itâ€™s the 95th minute, his team need a goal, heâ€™s in the penalty area, facing away from goal, surrounded by opponents,  the chance of a goal has gone, he does whatever he can to make sure there is contact , any contact, then goes down, rolls around and forgets what leg he cheated with as he holds the wrong one, Clearly it was convincing as he conned the ref and VAR is reluctant to override a refs judgement.

And by the letter of the law as Stu pointed out , contact however small seems to satisfy criteria nowadays for a pen. Whilst that mindset exists itâ€™s open season for people like Mane Iâ€™m afraid.
		
Click to expand...

He makes a meal of it. But let's not make out like Mane was the start of this issue....

But I challenge anyone to not react when kicked on the ankle. Its not a case of winning a penalty either. He is fouled. He overreacts, but it doesn't mean its not a foul.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 6, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			He makes a meal of it. But let's not make out like Mane was the start of this issue....

But I challenge anyone to not react when kicked on the ankle. Its not a case of winning a penalty either. He is fouled. He overreacts, but it doesn't mean its not a foul.
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough I respect your point of view.

I call it a touch you call it a foul. We all see things diffently.


----------



## adam6177 (Oct 6, 2019)

I knew there was a reason I stopped looking at this thread.... Jeez some of you lot embarrass yourselves.


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 6, 2019)

Soyuncu was coming to Arsenal only recently, until they pulled the plug on the deal. Obviously our CBs are so much better we didn't need him.

ðŸ˜“


----------



## ColchesterFC (Oct 6, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			He makes a meal of it. But let's not make out like Mane was the start of this issue....

But I challenge anyone to not react when kicked on the ankle. Its not a case of winning a penalty either. He is fouled. He overreacts, but it doesn't mean its not a foul.
		
Click to expand...

I agree with this. My opinion is that it's a foul and a penalty *AND* a dive by Mane. The defender has kicked Mane and fouled him but then Mane dives to the ground (possibly just to highlight to the ref that he's been kicked). The contact itself doesn't look as though it's enough to bring him down therefore in my view he's dived.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 6, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Soyuncu was coming to Arsenal only recently, until they pulled the plug on the deal. Obviously our CBs are so much better we didn't need him.

ðŸ˜“
		
Click to expand...

He done well yesterday lol, from the MOTD highlights alone I saw that he was culpable on more than one occasion.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 6, 2019)

GG26 said:



			Having now seen the highlights the most dangerous tackle was the one by TAA on Tielemans - nasty and deliberate.  Could have caused a serious injury.  Choudrey on Salah was late and from behind, but not dangerous and not anywhere near as likely to cause an injury as the challenge last week on Praet which you didnâ€™t have a problem with.
		
Click to expand...

Well i have seen the highlights now so

1. TAA - never deliberate , painful but purely accidental, went to VAR as well and donâ€™t think he was even yellow carded

2. Choudrey - cynical , nowhere near the ball , deliberate- some would have given a red and there would have been no complaints - did laugh when someone said it was a tired tackle ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ he had only been on 5 mins

3. The penalty - itâ€™s a penalty but Mane does make a meal of it but every single other player does and would have done , made me laugh when â€œEnglish punditsâ€ accuse the foreign player of diving yet when Kane and Co do it - the attitude is different




sawtooth said:



			If this was the first minute of the game and Mane was in the middle of the pitch he stays on his feet and carries on.

But itâ€™s the 95th minute, his team need a goal, heâ€™s in the penalty area, facing away from goal, surrounded by opponents,  the chance of a goal has gone, he does whatever he can to make sure there is contact , any contact, then goes down, rolls around and forgets what leg he cheated with as he holds the wrong one, Clearly it was convincing as he conned the ref and VAR is reluctant to override a refs judgement.

And by the letter of the law as Stu pointed out , contact however small seems to satisfy criteria nowadays for a pen. *Whilst that mindset exists itâ€™s open season for people like Mane Iâ€™m afraid.*

Click to expand...

Donâ€™t you mean for every player goes down in that situation mainly to ensure the penalty is given , itâ€™s a foul.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 6, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Lloris just had shocker there, his body wasn't set right nor were his legs.
Brighton seem to have played at a high tempo and credit to them.
Spurs are an embarrassing disgrace
		
Click to expand...

His mistakes seem more common now, do you think his time is up? What is your back up like, a proper number 2 or a bench warmer only?


----------



## ColchesterFC (Oct 6, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well i have seen the highlights now so

1. TAA - never deliberate , painful but purely accidental, went to VAR as well and donâ€™t think he was even yellow carded

2. Choudrey - cynical , nowhere near the ball , deliberate- some would have given a red and there would have been no complaints - did laugh when someone said it was a tired tackle ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ he had only been on 5 mins

3. The penalty - itâ€™s a penalty but Mane does make a meal of it but every single other player does and would have done , made me laugh when â€œEnglish punditsâ€ accuse the foreign player of diving yet when Kane and Co do it - the attitude is different
		
Click to expand...

Number 3 could just as easily read "made me laugh when fans of one club accuse other players of diving yet when it's one of their own - the attitude is different"


----------



## gmc40 (Oct 6, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Maneâ€™s got form, itâ€™s the 95th minute, it had all the hallmarks.

But Iâ€™ve seen it and I know a dive when I see one.

Itâ€™s not surprising that you, Stu and Phil canâ€™t see anything but a legit penalty. I can see why, I get it.
		
Click to expand...

They showed it from every angle live on tv. He milked it but he was impeded and it was a pen.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 6, 2019)

Making a meal of it is a form of simulation surely? itâ€™s cheating.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 6, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Making a meal of it is a form of simulation surely? itâ€™s cheating.
		
Click to expand...

And every single player does it - doesnâ€™t mean itâ€™s not a foul or a penalty. If there is no touch then itâ€™s a dive or simulation that needs to be stopped. There have been a number of occasions where a player has been fouled but didnâ€™t go down and the ref doesnâ€™t blow or give the penalty - which team loses out there ? Thatâ€™s why players now go down when they are fouled - to ensure the foul is given. Itâ€™s not great for the sport but until refs blow up then players will continue to do it and thatâ€™s all players


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 6, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			His mistakes seem more common now, do you think his time is up? What is your back up like, a proper number 2 or a bench warmer only?
		
Click to expand...

 Gazzaniga is shocking. They need a new keeper imo


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 6, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Making a meal of it is a form of simulation surely? itâ€™s cheating.
		
Click to expand...

In association football, diving is an attempt by a player to gain an *unfair advantage* by falling to the ground and possibly feigning an injury, to give the impression that a foul has been committed. Dives are often used to exaggerate the amount of contact present in a challenge.

The bold bit is key imo. If a foul has occurred then they aren't gaining an unfair advantage, no matter how frustrating the histrionics are.

Imo if a player goes to ground under no contact and appeals, its a dive. They can't claim to be avoiding a tackle if they've appealled. Imo they've not go grounds to defend that action and should face retrospective punishment. Whether the pen is given or not.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 6, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



*And every single player does it *- doesnâ€™t mean itâ€™s not a foul or a penalty. If there is no touch then itâ€™s a dive or simulation that needs to be stopped. There have been a number of occasions where a player has been fouled but didnâ€™t go down and the ref doesnâ€™t blow or give the penalty - which team loses out there ? Thatâ€™s why players now go down when they are fouled - to ensure the foul is given. Itâ€™s not great for the sport but until refs blow up then players will continue to do it and thatâ€™s all players
		
Click to expand...

Doesnt justify it though phil. 

If that goes against us I'm fuming and no doubt others would be too if it goes against their team. But these pens have consistently been given over the last 10/15yrs and it's now "part" of the game, something I'm not comfortable with.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 6, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Doesnt justify it though phil.

If that goes against us I'm fuming and no doubt others would be too if it goes against their team. But these pens have consistently been given over the last 10/15yrs and it's now "part" of the game, something I'm not comfortable with.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s a foul though , the player has been impended and the ref should blow up when the foul happens not when the player goes down , if that happens against us and the foul has been committed then what can we complain about. He didnâ€™t â€œencourageâ€ the touch or made sure the touch happen or any of that other stuff thatâ€™s mentioned - I would be more angry at the player making the poor attempt of the tackle when there is no danger.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Oct 6, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			In association football, diving is an attempt by a player to gain an *unfair advantage* by falling to the ground and possibly feigning an injury, to give the impression that a foul has been committed.* Dives are often used to exaggerate the amount of contact present in a challenge.*

The bold bit is key imo. If a foul has occurred then they aren't gaining an unfair advantage, no matter how frustrating the histrionics are.

Imo if a player goes to ground under no contact and appeals, its a dive. They can't claim to be avoiding a tackle if they've appealled. Imo they've not go grounds to defend that action and should face retrospective punishment. Whether the pen is given or not.
		
Click to expand...

The bold I've added seems to suggest that it can be both a foul and a dive. Can a ref give a foul and still book the player for diving? For example if a player has been obstructed and then falls to the floor holding his face when there has been no contact with his head. Could the ref give an indirect free kick for the obstruction and then book the player that has claimed to be hit in the face?


----------



## Piece (Oct 6, 2019)

1. TAA tackle...tangling of legs, that's all
2. Salah tackle...yellow is right, I think he went for the ball. 
3. Pen...I would be very disappointed if that was given against my team, put it that way. Well won by Mane ðŸ¤”ðŸ˜


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 6, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			The bold I've added seems to suggest that it can be both a foul and a dive. Can a ref give a foul and still book the player for diving? For example if a player has been obstructed and then falls to the floor holding his face when there has been no contact with his head. Could the ref give an indirect free kick for the obstruction and then book the player that has claimed to be hit in the face?
		
Click to expand...

Yes they should which would go some way possibly to stop players making a meal of things but then the refs have to give those fouls etc- because if the players stop making a meal and donâ€™t get the free kick then you can see it starting again. 

The question for is - would the ref have given that penalty yesterday without Mane throwing himself to the ground ?


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 6, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			The bold I've added seems to suggest that it can be both a foul and a dive. Can a ref give a foul and still book the player for diving? For example if a player has been obstructed and then falls to the floor holding his face when there has been no contact with his head. Could the ref give an indirect free kick for the obstruction and then book the player that has claimed to be hit in the face?
		
Click to expand...

I'd love to see a ref do just that. I suppose the get out could be wording of exagerating the contact *in a challenge, *they could argue a challenge is a fair tackle so the exaggeration is a dive. As opposed to exagerating after a foul..


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 6, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes they should which would go some way possibly to stop players making a meal of things but then the refs have to give those fouls etc- because if the players stop making a meal and donâ€™t get the free kick then you can see it starting again.

The question for is - would the ref have given that penalty yesterday without Mane throwing himself to the ground ?
		
Click to expand...

I think this season yes. Because it would have gone to VAR and the kick (foul) is still present.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Oct 6, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The question for is - would the ref have given that penalty yesterday without Mane throwing himself to the ground ?
		
Click to expand...

Assuming Mane didn't go down - The other question is would VAR have given it if the ref hadn't? And would VAR have overturned it if the ref had given it? I think that the answer to both is probably not as they seem reluctant to overturn the refs decisions.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 6, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			Any thoughts on Trents challenge?
		
Click to expand...

Slightly different as both were fighting for the ball pushing and pulling.
But it didnâ€™t look good in slow motion.
It could have easy been red but think yellow was just about right.
But given where Tielemens was by the corner flag it was unnecessary.


Seen Colemanâ€™s in Everton game that was a red.

I have always said any player playing the man from behind â€œ professional foulâ€ no intention of playing the ball ,just to stop a counter attack like Chourdreys yesterday should be red.
Just pull his shirt,  arm, thereâ€™s no need for that.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 6, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			If this was the first minute of the game and Mane was in the middle of the pitch he stays on his feet and carries on.

But itâ€™s the 95th minute, his team need a goal, heâ€™s in the penalty area, facing away from goal, surrounded by opponents,  the chance of a goal has gone, he does whatever he can to make sure there is contact , any contact, then goes down, rolls around and forgets what leg he cheated with as he holds the wrong one, Clearly it was convincing as he conned the ref and VAR is reluctant to override a refs judgement.

And by the letter of the law as Stu pointed out , contact however small seems to satisfy criteria nowadays for a pen. Whilst that mindset exists itâ€™s open season for people like Mane Iâ€™m afraid.
		
Click to expand...

The one person you havnt criticised is Albrighton for being stupid enough to kick Mane in the box ,in the 95th minute and giving the ref a decision to make.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 6, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes they should which would go some way possibly to stop players making a meal of things but then the refs have to give those fouls etc- because if the players stop making a meal and donâ€™t get the free kick then you can see it starting again.

The question for is - would the ref have given that penalty yesterday without Mane throwing himself to the ground ?
		
Click to expand...

NO thatâ€™s why players do it.
Itâ€™s the poor officiating thatâ€™s part of the problem.
The players will do this until refs start giving pens that should be given but are not.

Can you imagine a ref giving a pen then booking the striker for diving , that wonâ€™t work imo.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 6, 2019)

I still think that was a penalty. Albrighton is on the wrong side, stupidly sticks a leg in and boots the back of his leg. Irrespective of what Mane does after that, it's a foul in the box. 

Over the last couple of decades players learnt that refs often miss the fouls if they stay on their feet, by which time the chance they may have had is gone as well, so now they go down softly to highlight it. I'm sorry if you're one of the people who can't accept it, but the vast majority of attackers do that now so that's the way it is. Just because a player goes down easily, or even is looking for the foul in the first place, doesn't mean that the fact they WERE fouled is negated. It's the fault of the defender for making a poor challenge.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 6, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I still think that was a penalty. Albrighton is on the wrong side, stupidly sticks a leg in and boots the back of his leg. Irrespective of what Mane does after that, it's a foul in the box.

Over the last couple of decades players learnt that refs often miss the fouls if they stay on their feet, by which time the chance they may have had is gone as well, so now they go down softly to highlight it. I'm sorry if you're one of the people who can't accept it, but the vast majority of attackers do that now so that's the way it is. Just because a player goes down easily, or even is looking for the foul in the first place, doesn't mean that the fact they WERE fouled is negated. It's the fault of the defender for making a poor challenge.
		
Click to expand...

A very sensible post .

If anything I think this will happen more with VAR , if the ref misses the foul but the player goes down.
VAR will see the contact on replays and will tell the ref itâ€™s a foul.
So canâ€™t see it stopping.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 6, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			If this was the first minute of the game and Mane was in the middle of the pitch he stays on his feet and carries on.

But itâ€™s the 95th minute, his team need a goal, heâ€™s in the penalty area, facing away from goal, surrounded by opponents,  the chance of a goal has gone, he does whatever he can to make sure there is contact , any contact, then goes down, rolls around and forgets what leg he cheated with as he holds the wrong one, Clearly it was convincing as he conned the ref and VAR is reluctant to override a refs judgement. 

And by the letter of the law as Stu pointed out , contact however small seems to satisfy criteria nowadays for a pen. Whilst that mindset exists itâ€™s open season for people like Mane Iâ€™m afraid.
		
Click to expand...

Specifically - are you saying that Mane puts his left leg in a "strange" position?

2 foot away from his right foot, a normal position if passing or shooting.

1. Did he go down a bit easy I'll be honest and say yes, but is his leg "buckled" by Albrighton - also yes. Albrighton is also at least 2 foot away from the ball.

I also hate diving, but there was decent enough contact here IMHO.

Also bear in mind that mane was whacked last week and got nothing, one thing you have to admit is that refs more or less base all decision-maikng now on a player going down (or not). Mane robbed a Leicester defender of a ball in the box yesterday in the first half, and the ref give a foul against him, even though he didnt even stick a leg out, he just run alongside the defender, and was faster. If refs gave fouls for fouls where the player has tried to stay on his feet, players may try to more, but they dont, so players go down. How many times do you see 6ft 4 13 1/2 stone centre halves go down as soon as they feel contact to get a foul - loads. I'd never of taken that chance, but so many times refs give it if players hit the deck - courtesy of Sepp Blatter ru(i)nning the game for 10 years.

Mane's post foul reaction was embarassing, but he didnt "do a Pires" with his left foot, and not getting a blatant pen the previous week may have led to him thinking "sod this for a game of soldiers", next time, I'm making the most of it.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 6, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Soyuncu was coming to Arsenal only recently, until they pulled the plug on the deal. Obviously our CBs are so much better we didn't need him.

ðŸ˜“
		
Click to expand...

He was great for them yesterday, plays out from the back also.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 6, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Making a meal of it is a form of simulation surely? itâ€™s cheating.
		
Click to expand...

Well it happens 30 times a game in every premiership game now, so get used to it.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 6, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Making a meal of it is a form of simulation surely? itâ€™s cheating.
		
Click to expand...

I thought simulation is when you go down without any contact??

Hopefully our resident ref can confirm ðŸ¤ž


----------



## Slime (Oct 6, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How does it sound bitter then when Salah has been injured by a very poor tackle
		
Click to expand...

Because you were inferring that the whole team had set out to do a job on Salah, maybe even as a tactic!


----------



## Slime (Oct 6, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes they should which would go some way possibly to stop players making a meal of things but then the refs have to give those fouls etc- because if the players stop making a meal and donâ€™t get the free kick then you can see it starting again.

The question for is - would the ref have given that penalty yesterday without *Mane throwing himself to the ground ?*

Click to expand...

So, your admitting that he cheated.


----------



## Beezerk (Oct 6, 2019)

I was out last night so I've only just caught up with the footy, oh my word, what a cheating, diving scumbag. Goes down in instalments


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 6, 2019)

Slime said:



			So, your admitting that he cheated.
		
Click to expand...

To cheat is to gain an unfair advantage- did he gain an unfair advantage? Yes or no 

Was it a penalty - yes


----------



## fundy (Oct 6, 2019)

back to the reserve team and Aubameyang for the premier league again then 

its like hes not watched the last few games


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 6, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The question for is - would the ref have given that penalty yesterday without Mane throwing himself to the ground ?
		
Click to expand...

No and thatâ€™s my point.

You seem to have a hard time telling the difference between minimal/neglible/simulated contact and genuine contact that forces a player down to the ground.

Mane is dishonest pure and simple.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 6, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			No and thatâ€™s my point.

You seem to have a hard time telling the difference between minimal/neglible/simulated contact and genuine contact that forces a player down to the ground.

Mane is dishonest pure and simple.
		
Click to expand...

So itâ€™s only a foul if the contact is enough to put the player to the ground ? The touch impeded the player - simple as that


----------



## fundy (Oct 6, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So itâ€™s only a foul if the contact is enough to put the player to the ground ? The touch impeded the player - simple as that
		
Click to expand...

how did it impede him, he "chose" to throw himself to the floor from the touch


----------



## Norrin Radd (Oct 6, 2019)

Will the chuckle brothers please stop.all this to me to you is getting very tedious now ,isn't nine pages enough ffs.you can argue in message and I'm sure that most if not all would prefer it.


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 6, 2019)

Norrin Radd said:



			Will the chuckle brothers please stop.all this to me to you is getting very tedious now ,isn't nine pages enough ffs.you can argue in message and I'm sure that most if not all would prefer it.
		
Click to expand...

It's easily solved

Whatever Phil posts on football 

The opposite is correct


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 6, 2019)

fundy said:



			how did it impede him, he "chose" to throw himself to the floor from the touch
		
Click to expand...

He was kicked in the back of the leg - it affected his run , itâ€™s a foul is it not or do you think itâ€™s not a foul ?



pauljames87 said:



			It's easily solved

Whatever Phil posts on football

The opposite is correct
		
Click to expand...

Oh look another one who canâ€™t post on the subject without having to make it personal


----------



## fundy (Oct 6, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He was kicked in the back of the leg - it affected his run , itâ€™s a foul is it not or do you think itâ€™s not a foul ?
		
Click to expand...

never a foul nope, clearly simulation and a yellow card imho


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 6, 2019)

fundy said:



			never a foul nope, clearly simulation and a yellow card imho 

Click to expand...

Fair enough - ðŸ‘ it would be boring if we all agreed on everything


----------



## fundy (Oct 6, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Fair enough - ðŸ‘ it would be boring if we all agreed on everything
		
Click to expand...

oh i think we can all agree Spurs 2 results this week have been hilarious


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 6, 2019)

fundy said:



			oh i think we can all agree Spurs 2 results this week have been hilarious 

Click to expand...

Not ALL.


----------



## fundy (Oct 6, 2019)

only watching on twitter but sounds like Pepe been robbed a clearer penalty than Manes


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 6, 2019)

fundy said:



			only watching on twitter but sounds like Pepe been robbed a clearer penalty than Manes 

Click to expand...

I did see a Chelsea defender go down a bit easy in his own box.
Players are never going to stop itâ€™s coached into them now.


----------



## fundy (Oct 6, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I did see a Chelsea defender go down a bit easy in his own box.
Players are never going to stop itâ€™s coached into them now.
		
Click to expand...


Theyll stop in a heartbeat if proper penalties are brought in for cheating, of which simulation/diving is a massive part of, if the authorities continue to allow it then sadly youre right


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 6, 2019)

fundy said:



			only watching on twitter but sounds like Pepe been robbed a clearer penalty than Manes 

Click to expand...

Donâ€™t think it was, defender gets the ball first. No complaints from me.


----------



## Bazzatron (Oct 6, 2019)

Three one on ones for Wolves...we're going to regret that when City get going


----------



## fundy (Oct 6, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			Three one on ones for Wolves...we're going to regret that when City get going
		
Click to expand...


turns out you didnt  stunning result, congrats!

3 points for us in what sounds a pretty dour game


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 6, 2019)

Fair play wolves 

They just don't realise the butterfly effect of this 

God help us all


----------



## Jacko_G (Oct 6, 2019)

For those that laugh at Scottish football at least our league isn't over the first week in October.

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Liverpool winners already. Not even Liverpool can bottle this position, mainly because they're so good now.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 6, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			Three one on ones for Wolves...we're going to regret that when City get going
		
Click to expand...

Stunning result from Wolves - wonder who was missed most , KDB or Laporte



Jacko_G said:



			For those that laugh at Scottish football at least our league isn't over the first week in October.

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Liverpool winners already. Not even Liverpool can bottle this position, mainly because they're so good now.
		
Click to expand...

Far from over - still 30 games left to play


----------



## PieMan (Oct 6, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			For those that laugh at Scottish football at least our league isn't over the first week in October.

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Liverpool winners already. Not even Liverpool can bottle this position, mainly because they're so good now.
		
Click to expand...

Well for all our sakes let's hope they do......!!!! ðŸ˜‚


----------



## davemc1 (Oct 6, 2019)

Hey bazzatron, what times motd2 on bro?


----------



## Piece (Oct 6, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			Three one on ones for Wolves...we're going to regret that when City get going
		
Click to expand...

Or not! ðŸ˜ƒðŸ˜Ž Well done Wolves


----------



## PieMan (Oct 6, 2019)

Another great result for Super Frank's young guns. ðŸ‘ðŸ‘


----------



## fundy (Oct 6, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Another great result for Super Frank's young guns. ðŸ‘ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Played well, if they werent wearing Chelsea blue I might have even enjoyed watching it


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 6, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Another great result for Super Frank's young guns. ðŸ‘ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Yes the young lads look very comfortable played very well.


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 6, 2019)

Another drab performance from Arsenal. End to end, like a basket ball game. Clueless. It's baffling how Emery can watch the Spursday night games, and then revert to type. No ambition, except to keep his job as long as possible.

I would rather see Ozil as DM than Xhaka. At least it would be something different and unpredictable.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 6, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes the young lads look very comfortable played very well.
		
Click to expand...

Yes and Chelsea made Southampton look a very ordinary side today.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 6, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Yes and Chelsea made Southampton look a very ordinary side today. 

Click to expand...

I think they managed that themselves without Chelseaâ€™s help .
Whatâ€™s the keeper doing there for the first.
At 3-1 down they still tried to play out from the back.
Put two strikers on and go route one for a bit ,Chelsea donâ€™t look great at the back.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 6, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Another drab performance from Arsenal. End to end, like a basket ball game. Clueless. It's baffling how Emery can watch the Spursday night games, and then revert to type. No ambition, except to keep his job as long as possible.

I would rather see Ozil as DM than Xhaka. At least it would be something different and unpredictable.
		
Click to expand...

Ozil DM it must be bad, he couldnâ€™t tackle a wet paper bag.

Is it the manager or is it the players.?
Seen them a couple of times and thought they played quite well.


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 6, 2019)

It is the manager with his favourites, and then hammering very square pegs into very round holes with the rest of the team.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 6, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Specifically - are you saying that Mane puts his left leg in a "strange" position?

2 foot away from his right foot, a normal position if passing or shooting.

1. Did he go down a bit easy I'll be honest and say yes, but is his leg "buckled" by Albrighton - also yes. Albrighton is also at least 2 foot away from the ball.

I also hate diving, but there was decent enough contact here IMHO.

Also bear in mind that mane was whacked last week and got nothing, one thing you have to admit is that refs more or less base all decision-maikng now on a player going down (or not). Mane robbed a Leicester defender of a ball in the box yesterday in the first half, and the ref give a foul against him, even though he didnt even stick a leg out, he just run alongside the defender, and was faster. If refs gave fouls for fouls where the player has tried to stay on his feet, players may try to more, but they dont, so players go down. How many times do you see 6ft 4 13 1/2 stone centre halves go down as soon as they feel contact to get a foul - loads. I'd never of taken that chance, but so many times refs give it if players hit the deck - courtesy of Sepp Blatter ru(i)nning the game for 10 years.

Mane's post foul reaction was embarassing, but he didnt "do a Pires" with his left foot, and not getting a blatant pen the previous week may have led to him thinking "sod this for a game of soldiers", next time, I'm making the most of it.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe didnt get answered, due it it naming the original player who brought this type of foul to the prem - Pires, an Arsenal player under the tutelage of saint Arsene.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 6, 2019)

I know I'm on sticky ground here as Everton are clearly on a bad run but blimey utd are average at best and I think that is being too kind. How far have they slipped? 

A 4 team tournament of Everton, Man Utd, Newcastle and Watford would be pretty grim right now.


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 6, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Maybe didnt get answered, due it it naming the original player who brought this type of foul to the prem - Pires, an Arsenal player under the tutelage of saint Arsene.
		
Click to expand...

I still recall that Penalty. Only time Iâ€™ve ever felt remotely sorry for Pompey. 

I Always thought it ironic that UTD stopped Arsenalâ€™s unbeaten run courtesy of Rooney doing a Pires.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 6, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I know I'm on sticky ground here as Everton are clearly on a bad run but blimey utd are average at best and I think that is being too kind. How far have they slipped?

A 4 team tournament of Everton, Man Utd, Newcastle and Watford would be pretty grim right now.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s a shocking game - has there been a shot on target yet ? Know Newcastle have had a few shots but beyond that poor attempt from Maguire have Utd had a shot ?

Two poor teams and itâ€™s no surprise itâ€™s a poor game

Itâ€™s really hard to see where the quality is in the Utd team especially when they have spent so much money of the last 5 years or so


----------



## PieMan (Oct 6, 2019)

If Newcastle win then hard to see OGS surviving more than a few days.

Then Poch to Utd by the end of the week!! ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Jensen (Oct 6, 2019)

PieMan said:



			If Newcastle win then hard to see OGS surviving more than a few days.

Then Poch to Utd by the end of the week!! ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Then big bucks on its way to White Hart Lane


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 6, 2019)

PieMan said:



			If Newcastle win then hard to see OGS surviving more than a few days.

Then Poch to Utd by the end of the week!! ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...


But the bus driver is doing such a great job 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1121155661352640514


----------



## fundy (Oct 6, 2019)

urgh looks like an Arsenal clean sheet gonna cost me a few of the bookies pounds lol, cant happen too often!


----------



## Jensen (Oct 6, 2019)

Ah, I see you still haven't managed to pull yourself away from Twitter yet ðŸ˜„


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 6, 2019)

Well done Newcastle ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Bruce must be gutted he normally lets his old team have a free ride , quality from the Longstaff brothers , what a debut from younger one - Ferguson must look at that team and be fuming , no fight or quality from Utd , no leadership at all , big troubles there at the moment , whatâ€™s happening with Rashford 

The bonus is seeing Everton drop to the bottom three ðŸ˜‚


----------



## PieMan (Oct 6, 2019)

Blimey - never thought I'd ever see a Man Utd team in a relegation battle ðŸ˜±ðŸ¤­


----------



## fundy (Oct 6, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Blimey - never thought I'd ever see a Man Utd team in a relegation battle ðŸ˜±ðŸ¤­
		
Click to expand...

be a massive 6 pointer when they play Everton


----------



## Paperboy (Oct 6, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But the bus driver is doing such a great job 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1121155661352640514

Click to expand...

It's ok apparently they flew into Newcastle ðŸ˜‚


----------



## PieMan (Oct 6, 2019)

fundy said:



			be a massive 6 pointer when they play Everton 

Click to expand...

Everton? More like Watford!!! ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 6, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Blimey - never thought I'd ever see a Man Utd team in a relegation battle ðŸ˜±ðŸ¤­
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Robin Hood (Oct 6, 2019)

Toon Army - at last !
Onwards and upwards from now. ðŸ˜€


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 6, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Blimey - never thought I'd ever see a Man Utd team in a relegation battle ðŸ˜±ðŸ¤­
		
Click to expand...

Surely you were in senior school when they went down last time.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 6, 2019)

I think Man U have forgotten that they dont have Fellaini and Lukaku any more - they just ended up pumping balls into the box in the last 20, hardly any combination play down the wings.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 6, 2019)

This season is awful. Let's just write it off and start the next one. "Remember that utterly shocking season when everyone gave Liverpool the league in October?" That's what people will say.


----------



## PieMan (Oct 6, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Surely you were in senior school when they went down last time. 

Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

No I think that was when your mob last won the title!!! ðŸ˜‰ðŸ¤­ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 6, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Blimey - never thought I'd ever see a Man Utd team in a relegation battle ðŸ˜±ðŸ¤­
		
Click to expand...

Oh! I have but tried not to smile. (Not easy!)


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 6, 2019)

For those that can't remember United going down, check the BT Sport documentary "Too Good To Go Down"


----------



## PieMan (Oct 6, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			For those that can't remember United going down, check the BT Sport documentary "Too Good To Go Down"
		
Click to expand...

Yeah but in this case they're not!! ðŸ¤­ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 6, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Yeah but in this case they're not!! ðŸ¤­ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

We can hope though can't we?


----------



## Slime (Oct 6, 2019)

I'm glad I was playing golf this afternoon!


----------



## adam6177 (Oct 6, 2019)




----------



## fundy (Oct 6, 2019)

adam6177 said:









Click to expand...


went down claiming to have been elbowed in the face when he hadnt been touched too didnt he


----------



## adam6177 (Oct 6, 2019)

fundy said:



			went down claiming to have been elbowed in the face when he hadnt been touched too didnt he
		
Click to expand...

I saw that but honestly I thought Carrol had caught him and was a tad lucky, did the replay show he didn't?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 6, 2019)

fundy said:



			went down claiming to have been elbowed in the face when he hadnt been touched too didnt he
		
Click to expand...

He was also already on a yellow card after a tackle which ended up with studs on a shin - that could have been a red.

Carrol did slightly catch him but purely by accident


----------



## fundy (Oct 6, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			I saw that but honestly I thought Carrol had caught him and was a tad lucky, did the replay show he didn't?
		
Click to expand...


didnt see any contact on my screen, VAR reviewed it too and no action taken against Carroll!


----------



## Cherry13 (Oct 6, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			I saw that but honestly I thought Carrol had caught him and was a tad lucky, did the replay show he didn't?
		
Click to expand...

He ran into Carrollâ€™s elbow, who didnâ€™t look or move at all.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 6, 2019)

adam6177 said:









Click to expand...

Oh dear, contact or not that reaction was an embarrassment writhing around like he was seriously injured. ðŸ¤­


----------



## richart (Oct 6, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Blimey - never thought I'd ever see a Man Utd team in a relegation battle ðŸ˜±ðŸ¤­
		
Click to expand...

I can remember when Carlisle were promoted to the 1st division and Utd were relegated to the 2nd. After three games Carlisle were top of the league.Didnt last and they were relegated with Utd coming back up.


----------



## Bazzatron (Oct 6, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Hey bazzatron, what times motd2 on bro?
		
Click to expand...

I'm on holiday in the Dom Rep, already had the cold shoulder for leaving the family to watch it in the room...can't get away with watching motd and missing dinner


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 6, 2019)

fundy said:



			didnt see any contact on my screen, VAR reviewed it too and no action taken against Carroll!
		
Click to expand...

Chief superintendent Sawtooth of the over-exaggeration police will be along soon to feel his collar, I'm sure..........


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 7, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Chief superintendent Sawtooth of the over-exaggeration police will be along soon to feel his collar, I'm sure..........
		
Click to expand...

If that was Mane youâ€™ll still find a way to defend it lol. ðŸ‘

Looked to me like it was a huge electro static discharge that took him down. That must have hurt. ðŸ˜Š


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Oh dear, contact or not that reaction was an embarrassment writhing around like he was seriously injured. ðŸ¤­
		
Click to expand...

When I saw him go down I thought wow another last min VAR pen call?!! 

Then when they showed the reply I was like what the hell lol carrol didn't even move

If you miss a big lad like Carroll I suspected you need to go to Specsavers


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			When I saw him go down I thought wow another last min VAR pen call?!! 

Then when they showed the reply I was like what the hell lol carrol didn't even move

If you miss a big lad like Carroll I suspected you need to go to Specsavers
		
Click to expand...

He went down twice!! That link i replied to was a tackle that completely missed him ðŸ¤­ðŸ¤­


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			He went down twice!! That link i replied to was a tackle that completely missed him ðŸ¤­ðŸ¤­
		
Click to expand...

Oh I didn't even watch I was just thinking of that last min one


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 7, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			If that was Mane youâ€™ll still find a way to defend it lol. ðŸ‘

Looked to me like it was a huge electro static discharge that took him down. That must have hurt. ðŸ˜Š
		
Click to expand...

Did you see the pen not given in the arsenal game .
It was Glendousy or Luis canâ€™t tell them apart.
Pulled Wilson back in the box but because he stayed on his feet nothing???? Thatâ€™s cheating isnâ€™t it?
Thatâ€™s why players go down.
Some are good at it ,some are not they just look embarrassing ,there was a few at the weekend


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			When I saw him go down I thought wow another last min VAR pen call?!!

Then when they showed the reply I was like what the hell lol carrol didn't even move

If you miss a big lad like Carroll I suspected you need to go to Specsavers
		
Click to expand...

Carrol did put his elbow up to be fair.
He may of disturbed the hairs on his chin ,
But the fall was very theatrical.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 7, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			If that was Mane youâ€™ll still find a way to defend it lol. ðŸ‘

Looked to me like it was a huge electro static discharge that took him down. That must have hurt. ðŸ˜Š
		
Click to expand...

Still havent answered the question posed - struggling with it?


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 7, 2019)

SSN going over the top after 8 games ðŸ¤­ðŸ¤­ 

Someone needs to tell them of the 10 game rule ðŸ˜‰


----------



## fundy (Oct 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			SSN going over the top after 8 games ðŸ¤­ðŸ¤­ 

Someone needs to tell them of the 10 game rule ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

i went over the top yesterday too, i backed your lot to win the league by 10+ points, feel quite dirty today


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 7, 2019)

fundy said:



			i went over the top yesterday too, i backed your lot to win the league by 10+ points, feel quite dirty today 

Click to expand...

I always knew you had soft spot for us ðŸ¤­ðŸ¤­ Btw, What price?


----------



## fundy (Oct 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I always knew you had soft spot for us ðŸ¤­ðŸ¤­ Btw, What price?
		
Click to expand...

20/1 at 365


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 7, 2019)

fundy said:



			20/1 at 365
		
Click to expand...

Nice, just a shame Bet365 have banned me 1â˜¹

Luckily I know a man who has one ðŸ˜‰


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 7, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Specifically - are you saying that Mane puts his left leg in a "strange" position?

2 foot away from his right foot, a normal position if passing or shooting.

1. Did he go down a bit easy I'll be honest and say yes, but is his leg "buckled" by Albrighton - also yes. Albrighton is also at least 2 foot away from the ball.

I also hate diving, but there was decent enough contact here IMHO.

Also bear in mind that mane was whacked last week and got nothing, one thing you have to admit is that refs more or less base all decision-maikng now on a player going down (or not). Mane robbed a Leicester defender of a ball in the box yesterday in the first half, and the ref give a foul against him, even though he didnt even stick a leg out, he just run alongside the defender, and was faster. If refs gave fouls for fouls where the player has tried to stay on his feet, players may try to more, but they dont, so players go down. How many times do you see 6ft 4 13 1/2 stone centre halves go down as soon as they feel contact to get a foul - loads. I'd never of taken that chance, but so many times refs give it if players hit the deck - courtesy of Sepp Blatter ru(i)nning the game for 10 years.

Mane's post foul reaction was embarassing, but he didnt "do a Pires" with his left foot, and not getting a blatant pen the previous week may have led to him thinking "sod this for a game of soldiers", next time, I'm making the most of it.
		
Click to expand...

I firmly believe that Mane made sure that his left leg made contact with the defender, he needed some contact else his dive would have been even more ridiculous.

I donâ€™t know why people defend players falling to the ground with the merest touch. Call it what you like, making a meal, milking it, exaggerating contact, itâ€™s all cheating.

Contact is inevitable in football most of it does not cause a player to fall over especially then to roll around and hold the opposite leg that had made contact with the defender. Itâ€™s cheating regardless of who it is.

Point to Pires by all means if it makes you feel better but that doesnâ€™t excuse Maneâ€™s behaviour does it?


----------



## fundy (Oct 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Nice, just a shame Bet365 have banned me 1â˜¹
		
Click to expand...

didnt say it was my account


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 7, 2019)

fundy said:



			didnt say it was my account 

Click to expand...

Haha I didnt mean you ðŸ‘


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 7, 2019)

fundy said:



			i went over the top yesterday too, i backed your lot to win the league by 10+ points, feel quite dirty today 

Click to expand...

You may win money but you will never feel clean again . A price worth paying ?


----------



## fundy (Oct 7, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You may win money but you will never feel clean again . A price worth paying ?
		
Click to expand...


call it softening the blow if they run away with it


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 7, 2019)

fundy said:



			call it softening the blow *when* they run away with it 

Click to expand...

Hopefully ðŸ¤­ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 7, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			I firmly believe that Mane made sure that his left leg made contact with the defender, he needed some contact else his dive would have been even more ridiculous.

I donâ€™t know why people defend players falling to the ground with the merest touch. Call it what you like, making a meal, milking it, exaggerating contact, itâ€™s all cheating.

Contact is inevitable in football most of it does not cause a player to fall over especially then to roll around and hold the opposite leg that had made contact with the defender. Itâ€™s cheating regardless of who it is.

Point to Pires by all means if it makes you feel better but that doesnâ€™t excuse Maneâ€™s behaviour does it?
		
Click to expand...

As I said, I cant argue with the post-contact hystrionics, but you are adding other stuff to what wasn't there, as it suits your anti-Mane/Liverpool stance.

Mane put his left foot in a normal place.

Do you not think that the Sheffield United defender also hasn't cheated by taking Mane out last week, but not admitting it to the ref? You cant have it both ways.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 7, 2019)

Cheating is an extravagant word for it. By that marker anyone who appeals for a throw-in that they might not have touched last is cheating. Anyone who celebrates a goal when they were offside is cheating. Cheating and gamesmanship are not one and the same and to pretend they are is wilful ignorance.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 7, 2019)

fundy said:



			20/1 at 365
		
Click to expand...

With a 8pt headstart 20's is massive. 

We managed to get Â£80 on after it being referred to a trader and initially only allowing Â£12.50 ðŸ˜‰

It'll be a massive task to win it, even more so by a distance but it's a Bet worth placing for interest alone.


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 7, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Cheating is an extravagant word for it. By that marker anyone who appeals for a throw-in that they might not have touched last is cheating. Anyone who celebrates a goal when they were offside is cheating. Cheating and gamesmanship are not one and the same and to pretend they are is wilful ignorance.
		
Click to expand...

What are you on about.
Players will celebrate scoring a goal until they realise they are offside or the offside is given.
How the hell is that cheating.
Get a bloody grip


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 7, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			What are you on about.
Players will celebrate scoring a goal until they realise they are offside or the offside is given.
How the hell is that cheating.
Get a bloody grip
		
Click to expand...

I think my post went over your head.


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 7, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I think my post went over your head.
		
Click to expand...

My apologies it did 

I think most on here are sick to death of how footballers are reacting to the slightest of touches from all the teams.

Refs certainly need to start looking at the over reacting by players especially rolling around after a challenge or clutching faces when itâ€™s clear itâ€™s not the face.


----------



## adam6177 (Oct 7, 2019)

INCIDENT: In the final minutes of the game, Liverpool were awarded a penalty after Mark Albrighton caught the foot of Sadio Mane in the area, sending the forward over. Referee Chris Kavanagh pointed to the spot and the decision was confirmed by a VAR review. James Milner stepped up to convert the spot-kick and win the game for Liverpool.
DERMOT'S VERDICT: Correct decision.
 DERMOT SAYS: "We talk about it because of how Mane went down, he didn't go down too well, but I think it is a foul and once you give a foul, you have to give a penalty. The problem we have is that we talk about minimal contact and going down theatrically, he does do that, but I do think he was fouled."


----------



## Bazzatron (Oct 7, 2019)

United fan on 606 wants Lennon and Keane partnership to take over from OGS. Please God let that happen


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 7, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			United fan on 606 wants Lennon and Keane partnership to take over from OGS. Please God let that happen 

Click to expand...

Can we start a #lennon&keane on social media and see if we can get it trending? The owners see it, think it is a good idea............. I didn't think it could get better than Mourinho there but that could top it.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 7, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			INCIDENT: In the final minutes of the game, Liverpool were awarded a penalty after Mark Albrighton caught the foot of Sadio Mane in the area, sending the forward over. Referee Chris Kavanagh pointed to the spot and the decision was confirmed by a VAR review. James Milner stepped up to convert the spot-kick and win the game for Liverpool.
DERMOT'S VERDICT: Correct decision.
DERMOT SAYS: "We talk about it because of how Mane went down, he didn't go down too well, but I think it is a foul and once you give a foul, you have to give a penalty. The problem we have is that we talk about minimal contact and going down theatrically, he does do that, but I do think he was fouled."
		
Click to expand...

I would actually change it so that you can still give the penalty / foul, but if you also think that a player has excessively exaggerated the extent of the contact that they can also be booked in them circumstances. Book as ungentlemanly conduct.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 7, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			United fan on 606 wants Lennon and Keane partnership to take over from OGS. Please God let that happen 

Click to expand...

Not until we beat them  next week ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 7, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I would actually change it so that you can still give the penalty / foul, but if you also think that a player has excessively exaggerated the extent of the contact that they can also be booked in them circumstances. Book as ungentlemanly conduct.
		
Click to expand...

The only issue with that is if players dont go down, 99% of the time they dont get the foul.

Personally I think fouls are given way too easy but that's just my opinion.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The only issue with that is if players dont go down, 99% of the time they dont get the foul.

Personally I think fouls are given way too easy but that's just my opinion.
		
Click to expand...

But then as said in copmmentary for MotD, Milner got taken out and got straight up, no card given against the offedning Leicester player, a Leicester player goes down and rolls around for 3 barrel rolls, and earns the Liverpool player a yellow, yet still gets up and runs off. The commentator said something along the lines of "the younger players should learn from Milner" 
Too often the player is "killed" and earns the offender a card, when in actual fact it's either nothing or just a foul.


----------



## MegaSteve (Oct 7, 2019)

More than ever believe/feel footie was a whole lot better before MotD and social media...

The thought of 'watching' a game on Twitter really doesn't float my boat...


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 7, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			More than ever believe/feel footie was a whole lot better before MotD and social media...

The thought of 'watching' a game on Twitter really doesn't float my boat...
		
Click to expand...

Disagree with MOTD, that was the highlight of the weekend.

Social media has too many faceless idiots who thinks it's acceptable to act the way they do.


----------



## MegaSteve (Oct 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Disagree with MOTD, that was the highlight of the weekend.

Social media has too many faceless idiots who thinks it's acceptable to act the way they do.
		
Click to expand...

Highlight of the weekend would be going to the game... Surely?


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 7, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Highlight of the weekend would be going to the game... Surely?
		
Click to expand...

Yes and no

When I had my season ticket I used to love re watching the game on MOTD to see any calls again to see if it was right 

See replays of the goals 

Etc


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The only issue with that is if players dont go down, 99% of the time they dont get the foul.

Personally I think fouls are given way too easy but that's just my opinion.
		
Click to expand...

I know, and agree.

You can still go down, but if you do a triple-salco with pike, hold the wrong leg, roll 6 times and mainly to get someone booked/sent off no reason that it cant be treated as ungentlemanly conduct, in the same way that waving an imaginary card can also get a player booked. 

I wouldnt expect it every week, but you do see a situation like that a few times a month throughout the premiership, and a few times yesterday.


----------



## MegaSteve (Oct 7, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Yes and no

When I had my season ticket I used to love re watching the game on MOTD to see any calls again to see if it was right 

See replays of the goals 

Etc
		
Click to expand...

Back in the day I was probably still 'busy' in the pub when MotD was on...
And, no VCR's in them days...


----------



## davemc1 (Oct 7, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			If that was Mane youâ€™ll still find a way to defend it lol. ðŸ‘

Looked to me like it was a huge electro static discharge that took him down. That must have hurt. ðŸ˜Š
		
Click to expand...

Mans had 3 pens in 100 games

Proper cheat ðŸ˜


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 7, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Highlight of the weekend would be going to the game... Surely?
		
Click to expand...

Obviously it is, not going the aways MOTD was always the highlight for meðŸ‘


----------



## fundy (Oct 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Obviously it is, not going the aways MOTD was always the highlight for meðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...


youre one of them who tries to spot themselves in the crowd on MOTD arent you Stu


----------



## davemc1 (Oct 7, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I know, and agree.

You can still go down, but if you do a triple-salco with pike, hold the wrong leg, roll 6 times and mainly to get someone booked/sent off no reason that it cant be treated as ungentlemanly conduct, in the same way that waving an imaginary card can also get a player booked.

I wouldnt expect it every week, but you do see a situation like that a few times a month throughout the premiership, and a few times yesterday. 

Click to expand...

How do you place Manes? 

If you accept a deffo foul (which it was) donâ€™t go down, no foul. go down, be accused of diving 
Every club has a case in point, but I offer you coutinho, Kop end the other year. (Can dig it out but rather not)


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 7, 2019)

fundy said:



			youre one of them who tries to spot themselves in the crowd on MOTD arent you Stu 

Click to expand...

Haha it wouldnt be too hard to spot me ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ my seat is just about out of camera view thankfully.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 7, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			How do you place Manes? 

If you accept a deffo foul (which it was) donâ€™t go down, no foul. go down, be accused of diving 
Every club has a case in point, but I offer you coutinho, Kop end the other year. (Can dig it out but rather not)
		
Click to expand...

I'm not saying a booking for going down too easily, just extra histrionics, such as mentioned.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 7, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Mans had 3 pens in 100 games

Proper cheat ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Maybe he failed to con the refs the other times,or they werenâ€™t in the box ðŸ˜


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 7, 2019)




----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 7, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 28340

Click to expand...

Donâ€™t think you can blame Howard for that team.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 11, 2019)

Chavrolet, anyone?


----------



## fundy (Oct 11, 2019)

Just seen the England pen, clearly contact and clearly simulation! penalty or not?


----------



## adam6177 (Oct 11, 2019)

fundy said:



			Just seen the England pen, clearly contact and clearly simulation! penalty or not?
		
Click to expand...

He's English, so it's a stonewall.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 11, 2019)

fundy said:



			Just seen the England pen, clearly contact and clearly simulation! penalty or not?
		
Click to expand...

Let me ask you would he give that without the exaggeration? I think not.
Itâ€™s a pen because he kicked him .
This is what Mane did last week.

Is it a pen =yes , simulation = no ,,exaggeration = yes ,,but surely it canâ€™t be both a pen and simulation .


----------



## fundy (Oct 11, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Let me ask you would he give that without the exaggeration? I think not.
Itâ€™s a pen because he kicked him .
This is what Mane did last week.

Is it a pen =yes , simulation = no ,,exaggeration = yes ,,but surely it canâ€™t be both a pen and simulation .
		
Click to expand...


This is where I see it so differently, he kicked him but the kick caused no impact, if it had he would go down naturally, so he simulated the impact of being kicked to "win" a penalty

Clearly simulation because his reaction is not what the contact caused, and for me no its not a pen either, why do people think contact means its automatically a foul?


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 11, 2019)

My god, Michael Keane......does he play first division judging by his passing ability.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 11, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			My god, Michael Keane......does he play first division judging by his passing ability.
		
Click to expand...

Close enough to first division


----------



## adam6177 (Oct 11, 2019)

Danny rose doing what he does best.... Diving. I can't stand him as a person or a player.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 11, 2019)

Ingurland fans causing chaos again and not a word about it.....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1182742739148070919


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 11, 2019)

Only watched the last 5mins, its dire.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 11, 2019)

fundy said:



			This is where I see it so differently, he kicked him but the kick caused no impact, if it had he would go down naturally, so he simulated the impact of being kicked to "win" a penalty

Clearly simulation because his reaction is not what the contact caused, and for me no its not a pen either, why do people think contact means its automatically a foul?
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but we canâ€™t tell from here what the impact of a kick on the ankle is .
He caught him itâ€™s a pen.

Where do they get these referees from .foul before  Sterlings booking was a joke.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 11, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Only watched the last 5mins, its dire.
		
Click to expand...

Not that good.


----------



## fundy (Oct 11, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sorry but we canâ€™t tell from here what the impact of a kick on the ankle is .
He caught him itâ€™s a pen.

Where do they get these referees from .foul before  Sterlings booking was a joke.
		
Click to expand...

We can tell it doesnt cause his leg to go towards the kick and upwards and throw his upper body to the ground as if its a swimming pool though!

So do you believe any contact is a foul? (If so Rose shouldve had about 5 free kicks for his various theatrics lol)


----------



## fundy (Oct 11, 2019)

get up Sterling ffs


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 11, 2019)

fundy said:



			We can tell it doesnt cause his leg to go towards the kick and upwards and throw his upper body to the ground as if its a swimming pool though!

So do you believe any contact is a foul? (If so Rose shouldve had about 5 free kicks for his various theatrics lol)
		
Click to expand...

Sterling turned his man and stopped.  the defender dangled a leg and caught sterling as he turned .
Thatâ€™s a pen ,he missed the ball and got the man pen for me.
Sterling embellished it donâ€™t get me wrong but I think itâ€™s a pen. 

Not all contact but if you go for the ball and miss and get the man then yes thatâ€™s a foul.
You even said he kicked him!.

Think this detracts from just how poor we have been.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 11, 2019)

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 11, 2019)

Centre forward standing on the penalty spot on his own .


----------



## fundy (Oct 11, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sterling turned his man and stopped.  the defender dangled a leg and caught sterling as he turned .
Thatâ€™s a pen ,he missed the ball and got the man pen for me.
Sterling embellished it donâ€™t get me wrong but I think itâ€™s a pen. 

Not all contact but if you go for the ball and miss and get the man then yes thatâ€™s a foul.
You even said he kicked him!.

Think this detracts from just how poor we have been.
		
Click to expand...

what contact comes from not trying to kick the ball and getting the man that isnt a free kick?

well the only goal weve scored we got from cheating and now getting the result we deserve

pickford, rose, keane, trippier, rice - its like watching arsenal try and defend lol


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 11, 2019)

Wtf was Barkley doing there? ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Piece (Oct 11, 2019)

Poor performance tonight. Defence rubbish again and holding midfielders non existent.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 11, 2019)

1st half decent side they come up against and they buckle. Wouldnt happen under a proper coach.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 11, 2019)

Another England team that think they've won before the whistle has gone. Typical arrogance and stupidity


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 11, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			1st half decent side they come up against and they buckle. Wouldnt happen under a proper coach.
		
Click to expand...

Half decent side? We beat them 5-0 before didnt we??


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 11, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Ingurland fans causing chaos again and not a word about it.....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1182742739148070919

Click to expand...

Not proper Ingurland fans them La. 

Isnâ€™t that the usual spin?


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 11, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Half decent side? We beat them 5-0 before didnt we??
		
Click to expand...

Dunno, did you?

Only seen the last 20mins or so and by the sounds of it the previous 70mins were as bad.

Barkley and Rashford added nothing when they came on.


----------



## fundy (Oct 11, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Dunno, did you?

Only seen the last 20mins or so and by the sounds of it the previous 70mins were as bad.

Barkley and Rashford added nothing when they came on.
		
Click to expand...

Barkley played one great ball to Kane which was more than the rest of the midfield did in 90 mins! Henderson just missed the corner flag when he tried lol


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 11, 2019)

fundy said:



			Barkley played one great ball to Kane which was more than the rest of the midfield did in 90 mins! Henderson just missed the corner flag when he tried lol
		
Click to expand...

And kane muffed it. Shocking ball control. Probably surprised there was no one to dive over.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 11, 2019)

fundy said:



			Barkley played one great ball to Kane which was more than the rest of the midfield did in 90 mins! Henderson just missed the corner flag when he tried lol
		
Click to expand...

Sorry I stand corrected, he did ðŸ‘ 

World class that Barkley ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 11, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Ingurland fans causing chaos again and not a word about it.....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1182742739148070919

Click to expand...

Are you sure itâ€™s Englandâ€™s fans causing the trouble? Czech Police have stated 31 arrests and only 14 of them England fans?
Weâ€™ve all heard the stories of English supporters being targeted abroad.
As for â€œnot a word about itâ€ every media outlet has reported it.

Good to see you taking an interest in the National Team.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 11, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Are you sure itâ€™s Englandâ€™s fans causing the trouble? Czech Police have stated 31 arrests and only 14 of them England fans?
Weâ€™ve all heard the stories of English supporters being targeted abroad.
As for â€œnot a word about itâ€ every media outlet has reported it.

*Good to see you taking an interest in the National Team*.

Click to expand...

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 11, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Keep your friends close and your enemies closer ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

Makes no sense ðŸ¤·â€â™‚ï¸

You just seem obsessed with anything negative towards the national team,but obviously youâ€™re not interested because youâ€™re not English.... 
ðŸ™„ðŸ™„

Keep up the top Bantz tho La ðŸ˜‰


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 11, 2019)

fundy said:



			what contact comes from not trying to kick the ball and getting the man that isnt a free kick?

well the only goal weve scored we got from cheating and now getting the result we deserve

pickford, rose, keane, trippier, rice - its like watching arsenal try and defend lol
		
Click to expand...

You have lost me there???

He kicked him in the ankle ,you even said that yourself!

At least we can agree on something ,but thatâ€™s a bit unkind to the Gunners.


----------



## Fish (Oct 12, 2019)

When you pick a team populated with players from clubs that are leaking goals for fun, what do you expect!

Midfield was just as poor, neither Henderson or Rice can receive balls under pressure, they both looked lethargic and clueless at times.  Barkley didn't add much but at least he could run with the ball.

Team selection was atrocious, and most if not all fans knew it before the game started.  Southgate can't seem to see where the problem areas are, which is very worrying!

But when our defence is made up from Everton, Spurs and Utd, what did we really expect going on current club results!


----------



## Piece (Oct 12, 2019)

Fish said:



			When you pick a team populated with players from clubs that are leaking goals for fun, what do you expect!

Midfield was just as poor, neither Henderson or Rice can receive balls under pressure, they both looked lethargic and clueless at times.  Barkley didn't add much but at least he could run with the ball.

Team selection was atrocious, and most if not all fans knew it before the game started.  Southgate can't seem to see where the problem areas are, which is very worrying!

But when our defence is made up from Everton, Spurs and Utd, what did we really expect going on current club results!
		
Click to expand...

Yup. The back four looked very familiar...seen at The Vic all season. Not sure what Rice offered the team yesterday.


----------



## Slime (Oct 12, 2019)

I've just seen the Antoine Griezmann dive .................................. shockingly embarrassing, but it got them the penalty that won them the game.


----------



## Slime (Oct 12, 2019)

Fish said:



			When you pick a team populated with players from clubs that are leaking goals for fun, what do you expect!

*Midfield was just as poor, neither Henderson or Rice can receive balls under pressure, they both looked lethargic and clueless at times. * Barkley didn't add much but at least he could run with the ball.

Team selection was atrocious, and most if not all fans knew it before the game started.  Southgate can't seem to see where the problem areas are, which is very worrying!

But when our defence is made up from Everton, Spurs and Utd, what did we really expect going on current club results!
		
Click to expand...

You forgot to mention Mount, very poor performance indeed, his teammates were not much better, either!.
Injury/illness didn't help, but that's no excuse for such an inept performance.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 12, 2019)

When you have a 
GK who isnâ€™t good enough , a LB and RB who have spent a year in poor form , one decent CB and one who is just about Prem level not International level then they are going to struggle 

Should - Pope , TAA , Gomez , Maguire and Chillwel 

Then in midfield- Henderson isnâ€™t a great player to sit , he is a runner and link player , and Rice ? Is he actually any good or all hype - they are not great as a two 

Need to get Maddison in there for creativity 

And get rid of 4-2-3-1 - 

4-3â€“3 , the formation the players are comfortable with


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 12, 2019)

*Ed*


Liverpoolphil said:



			When you have a
GK who isnâ€™t good enough , a LB and RB who have spent a year in poor form , one decent CB and one who is just about Prem level not International level then they are going to struggle

Should - Pope , TAA , Gomez , Maguire and Chillwel

Then in midfield- Henderson isnâ€™t a great player to sit , he is a runner and link player , and Rice ? Is he actually any good or all hype - they are not great as a two

Need to get Maddison in there for creativity

And get rid of 4-2-3-1 -

4-3â€“3 , the formation the players are comfortable with
		
Click to expand...

Tbf for England Pickford has never let us down. 

And until Gomez earns a regular spot for his club he shouldnt play for England. He has to show he has the ability (I think he does) but also the fitness. No point picking a player you can't rely on. We've done that too much in the past. 

Agree re the fullbacks though. The best two and most in form.


----------



## Jacko_G (Oct 12, 2019)

Did England loose last night? 

Saw their fans were a disgrace again. At least we know we're pants and just have fun at away days. 

#tartanarmy#


----------



## Slime (Oct 12, 2019)

The owners of Manchester United have prorogued winning.

Fans going to Supreme Court.

Supreme Court 3  vs  Manchester United 2

( Lord Chief Justice sent off 34 min.)

Full match report see www/Spectator.

Sorry people, just trying to cheer myself up!


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 12, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When you have a
GK who isnâ€™t good enough , a LB and RB who have spent a year in poor form , one decent CB and one who is just about Prem level not International level then they are going to struggle

Should - Pope , TAA , Gomez , Maguire and Chillwel

Then in midfield- Henderson isnâ€™t a great player to sit , he is a runner and link player , and Rice ? Is he actually any good or all hype - they are not great as a two

Need to get Maddison in there for creativity

And get rid of 4-2-3-1 -

4-3â€“3 , the formation the players are comfortable with
		
Click to expand...

I agree with a lot of that. Our centre back selection is poor anyway, Gomez would be playing if he could get in the Liverpool team. Keane is woeful but I'm not sure who else is out there. Maybe Tomori will get a game but it feels soon for him. 

Rice was pointless to have against them. He should only be playing against teams where we have less possession so he can break up play. When we're expected to dominate he adds nothing. Maybe Winks should have played, at least he moves the ball well. Just like at CB, we don't have many good options for deep midfielders.

Agree that Pope, Arnold & Chilwell should be 1st choice now, or soon.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 12, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



*Ed*


Tbf for England Pickford has never let us down.

And until Gomez earns a regular spot for his club he shouldnt play for England. He has to show he has the ability (I think he does) but also the fitness. No point picking a player you can't rely on. We've done that too much in the past.

Agree re the fullbacks though. The best two and most in form.
		
Click to expand...

Even with Gomez not getting regular time at club i would still have him ahead of Keane every day of the week , if not Gomez then Tarkowski or even Stones , but it needs to be someone else. Keane is not an international CB


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 12, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Even with Gomez not getting regular time at club i would still have him ahead of Keane every day of the week , if not Gomez then Tarkowski or even Stones , but it needs to be someone else. Keane is not an international CB
		
Click to expand...

I agree about Keane. And have previously stated I like gomez as a talent. But it's everything which is wrong (still) with playing for England when being at a top club automatically gets you in the squad. 

Tomori and to a lesser extent mount proving it. But that's a whole different subject.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 12, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree about Keane. And have previously stated I like gomez as a talent. But it's everything which is wrong (still) with playing for England when being at a top club automatically gets you in the squad.

Tomori and to a lesser extent mount proving it. But that's a whole different subject.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s not about being automatic playing just because you are at a big club - I would play Gomez  over Keane even if he was at the bottom club , he is a better player , Gomez doesnâ€™t get into the squad just because he is at Liverpool, he gets into the squad because he is one of the best english CBâ€™s


----------



## fundy (Oct 12, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Itâ€™s not about being automatic playing just because you are at a big club - I would play Gomez  over Keane even if he was at the bottom club , he is a better player , Gomez doesnâ€™t get into the squad just because he is at Liverpool, he gets into the squad because he is one of the best english CBâ€™s
		
Click to expand...

Not sure I agree with this, Gomez or Tomori nowhere near the squad if they dont play for a big club with their number of appearances at club level (Tomori completely laughable selection imho btw)

Is Gomez really that good? Not even played 50 premier league games across 4 seasons and is far from a regular starter. If hes one of the best English centre backs (not potentially one of) then thats pretty damning on the rest of them!!!! along the lines of picking Foden in squads when he barely gets a kick in the prem league

btw agree he may well be better than Keane but thats a pretty low bar


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 12, 2019)

Gomez is way better than Keane, not forgetting he had a big injury and has come back and is improving. He is quick and reads the game well, and has argueably the best CB in the game to learn from in the squad.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 12, 2019)

fundy said:



			Not sure I agree with this, Gomez or Tomori nowhere near the squad if they dont play for a big club with their number of appearances at club level (Tomori completely laughable selection imho btw)

Is Gomez really that good? Not even played 50 premier league games across 4 seasons and is far from a regular starter. If hes one of the best English centre backs (not potentially one of) then thats pretty damning on the rest of them!!!! along the lines of picking Foden in squads when he barely gets a kick in the prem league

btw agree he may well be better than Keane but thats a pretty low bar
		
Click to expand...

Yes Ability wise Gomez is that good , showed it before he picked up the nasty inury last year , VVD got a lot of plaudits last season but until he was injured Gomez was superb and was a regular , and showed it when he played alongside Maguire for England as well. Needs to a sustained period without injury no doubt but when he does ( he is still only 22 ) he will IMO be the best CB England have


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 12, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Itâ€™s not about being automatic playing just because you are at a big club - I would play Gomez  over Keane even if he was at the bottom club , he is a better player , Gomez doesnâ€™t get into the squad just because he is at Liverpool, he gets into the squad because he is one of the best english CBâ€™s
		
Click to expand...

I already conceded that gomez has the talent. That being said, if he was at a smaller club then your knowledgeof his skill would be less and so wouldnt praise him so highly imo. But by biggest issue with him is fitness. If he doesn't pay 39 games this season then he shouldnt play for England. 

As to getting picked beciase he's at Liverpool. To suggest being at a big club doesn't help is naive. 

Mount walked into the team after what was it. 2 pl appearances. Yet Maddison lives off scraps after a year of good pl appearances. Ward Prowse for us has how many under 21 caps and last season for the second half of season did far more than what Mount has done so far. 

Tomori gets a call up after 2 games. Granted that could be to secure his nationality.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2019)

Being up front, Keane is dog sh!te and certainly not an international footballer.

Can any LPool fan explain why if Gomez is all that, why is he 3rd choice behind Matip and Lovren?

Heâ€™s only started 1 PL game this season so far and that was the first game wasnâ€™t it?

Donâ€™t think players should be risked at international level when they arenâ€™t playing regular football.

Iâ€™d put Mings ahead of Keane without a shadow of a doubt this season.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 12, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Being up front, Keane is dog sh!te and certainly not an international footballer.

Can any LPool fan explain why if Gomez is all that, why is he 3rd choice behind Matip and Lovren?

Heâ€™s only started 1 PL game this season so far and that was the first game wasnâ€™t it?

Donâ€™t think players should be risked at international level when they arenâ€™t playing regular football.

Iâ€™d put Mings ahead of Keane without a shadow of a doubt this season.
		
Click to expand...

Prior to his Injury in December last year, he was superb. He was out for nearly 4months which didn't help. Matip was superb last season and this and has rightfully kept his place in the team.

Gomez for me has all the quality to be a top CB. He isnt 3rd choice behind Matip and Lovren, I'd say he's just behind Matip given Matips current form.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Prior to his Injury in December last year, he was superb. He was out for nearly 4months which didn't help. Matip was superb last season and this and has rightfully kept his place in the team.

Gomez for me has all the quality to be a top CB. He isnt 3rd choice behind Matip and Lovren, I'd say he's just behind Matip given Matips current form.
		
Click to expand...

Gomez was on the bench last saturday and Lovren started.

Keane had a great end of season from Jan when he teamed up with Zouma, no Zouma and heâ€™s dog sh!te.

Iâ€™m not doubting Gomezâ€™s past form, but maybe Klopp and Southgate(to a point) are seeing something in training that isnâ€™t quite right, maybe he isnâ€™t the same player after his injury.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 12, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Gomez was on the bench last saturday and Lovren started.

Keane had a great end of season from Jan when he teamed up with Zouma, no Zouma and heâ€™s dog sh!te.

Iâ€™m not doubting Gomezâ€™s past form, but maybe Klopp and Southgate(to a point) are seeing something in training that isnâ€™t quite right, maybe he isnâ€™t the same player after his injury.
		
Click to expand...

Gomez started the game before and Lovren was on the bench.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Gomez started the game before and Lovren was on the bench.
		
Click to expand...

Slight mix up mate in that we were talking about PL games.
Was the game before the one were you conceded 3 goals, maybe thatâ€™s why he was dropped.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 12, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Slight mix up mate in that we were talking about PL games.
Was the game before the one were you conceded 3 goals, maybe thatâ€™s why he was dropped.

Click to expand...

He was at fault for 1 goal, the other 2 he couldn't have done any better to prevent the other 2.

When was Lovrens last start in PL before last week?


----------



## ColchesterFC (Oct 12, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Gomez started the game before and Lovren was on the bench.
		
Click to expand...

Klopp must be a rubbish manager. How on earth can he put the world's best defender on the bench? ðŸ˜ƒ


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			He was at fault for 1 goal, the other 2 he couldn't have done any better to prevent the other 2.

When was Lovrens last start in PL before last week?
		
Click to expand...

Donâ€™t know mate, hence my first question over Gomez.
Try not to be so sensitive.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 12, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Donâ€™t know mate, hence my first question over Gomez.
Try not to be so sensitive.

Click to expand...

Not being sensitive, just asking the question as I genuinely dont know but if  I was to guess I'd say it wasnt in 2019.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Not being sensitive, just asking the question as I genuinely dont know but if  I was to guess I'd say it wasnt in 2019.
		
Click to expand...

And you ask Blooooo

Conversation was about England CHâ€™s not Croatians.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 12, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			And you ask Blooooo

Conversation was about England CHâ€™s not Croatians.

Click to expand...

You lot know more about us than your own team ðŸ˜‰

You brought Lovren into the convo âœŠðŸ’¦ ðŸ˜‚

Just done a bit of research, Lovren started 11 games, Gomez 12 games and he was injured for half a season.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			You lot know more about us than your own team ðŸ˜‰

You brought Lovren into the convo âœŠðŸ’¦ ðŸ˜‚

Just done a bit of research, Lovren started 11 games, Gomez 12 games and he was injured for half a season.
		
Click to expand...

And what Iâ€™ve learnt tonight is, Gomez has potential but maybe not back to his best yet............and is behind Lovren, currently, in the Club pecking order.

I thought you LPool fans would be over the moon seeing only one of your players on the pitch, nice to see yous starting to care and taking an interest in the National side.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Being up front, Keane is dog sh!te and certainly not an international footballer.

Can any LPool fan explain why if Gomez is all that, why is he 3rd choice behind Matip and Lovren?

Heâ€™s only started 1 PL game this season so far and that was the first game wasnâ€™t it?

Donâ€™t think players should be risked at international level when they arenâ€™t playing regular football.

Iâ€™d put Mings ahead of Keane without a shadow of a doubt this season.
		
Click to expand...

He was on a par for a good bit of last season along with VVD, before his injury. A section of the season were we hardly let any goals in. Matip then came in, played very well (even though we started to let more goals in.

Gomez still hasnt hit his former rythym yet (may never will), but if he does you have a great CB. A bit like Oxlade-Chamberlain who still hasnt hit is rythm after a bad injury. Who knows, but if he does get back to that form, I think he will displace Matip again.

I agree with papas that if you play for one of the bigger teams it gives you a much better chance of playing for England, but to play inferior players because they are only playing 30% of the games at club level is daft, if the lesser players are playing every week but are much poorer. Playing well at international level may make them first choice again at club level.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			And what Iâ€™ve learnt tonight is, Gomez has potential but maybe not back to his best yet............and is behind Lovren, currently, in the Club pecking order.

I thought you LPool fans would be over the moon seeing only one of your players on the pitch, nice to see yous starting to care and taking an interest in the National side.

Click to expand...

As has been proved for the last 30 years, the interest in club fans when their team are amongst the elite of the premiership is in inverse proportion to their interest in the England side.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 12, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When you have a
GK who isnâ€™t good enough , a LB and RB who have spent a year in poor form , one decent CB and one who is en thinking what Maddison has to do to get in the team?just about Prem level not International level then they are going to struggle

Should - Pope , TAA , Gomez , Maguire and Chillwel

Then in midfield- Henderson isnâ€™t a great player to sit , he is a runner and link player , and Rice ? Is he actually any good or all hype - they are not great as a two

Need to get Maddison in there for creativity

And get rid of 4-2-3-1 -

4-3â€“3 , the formation the players are comfortable with
		
Click to expand...

I have to admit I have been thinking what Maddison has to do to get in the team.?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			He was on a par for a good bit of last season along with VVD, before his injury. A section of the season were we hardly let any goals in. Matip then came in, played very well (even though we started to let more goals in.

Gomez still hasnt hit his former rythym yet (may never will), but if he does you have a great CB. A bit like Oxlade-Chamberlain who still hasnt hit is rythm after a bad injury. Who knows, but if he does get back to that form, I think he will displace Matip again.

I agree with papas that if you play for one of the bigger teams it gives you a much better chance of playing for England, but to play inferior players because they are only playing 30% of the games at club level is daft, if the lesser players are playing every week but are much poorer. Playing well at international level may make them first choice again at club level.
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™d have no hesitation starting Gomez and TAA for England.
Southgate plays it very (too) safe for me and is too loyal to some.
What he sees in Keane Iâ€™m baffled.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Iâ€™d have no hesitation starting Gomez and TAA for England.
Southgate plays it very (too) safe for me and is too loyal to some.
What he sees in Keane Iâ€™m baffled.
		
Click to expand...

I'd play his arl fella before I played him.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			As has been proved for the last 30 years, the interest in club fans when their team are amongst the elite of the premiership is in inverse proportion to their interest in the England side.
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™m not sure it is with all Clubs tbh Pete.
Sometimes itâ€™s born out of frustration of seeing top players perform week in, week out at Club level and are ignored by England.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Iâ€™m not sure it is with all Clubs tbh Pete.
Sometimes itâ€™s born out of frustration of seeing top players perform week in, week out at Club level and are ignored by England.
		
Click to expand...

I think it is for the majority, but probably not all.

Over the last 30 years I think us (obviously), United (definitely - remember the Argentina chants?) and Everton in the old days. Maybe slightly lesser for the London clubs such as Arsenal and Chelsea, but I would still bet a pound to a penny that in their good years that their club side was their priority over their national side in terms of interest and attendance.

Probably the same for City now as well.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 12, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Itâ€™s not about being automatic playing just because you are at a big club - I would play Gomez  over Keane even if he was at the bottom club , he is a better player , Gomez doesnâ€™t get into the squad just because he is at Liverpool, he gets into the squad because he is one of the best english CBâ€™s
		
Click to expand...

He played about two / three weeks ago canâ€™t remember who against and he just didnâ€™t look right to me.
Maybe the injury is still in his head.
He does rely on his speed but it might take time for a full recovery.
Your right Matip deserved his place he has played very well.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 12, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Iâ€™m not sure it is with all Clubs tbh Pete.
Sometimes itâ€™s born out of frustration of seeing top players perform week in, week out at Club level and are ignored by England.
		
Click to expand...

I think sometimes as soon as some put the England shirt on they become half the player the fans see every week.
But totally agree there are a lot better players playing than that team yesterday.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 12, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think it is for the majority, but probably not all.

Over the last 30 years I think us (obviously), United (definitely - remember the Argentina chants?) and Everton in the old days. Maybe slightly lesser for the London clubs such as Arsenal and Chelsea, but I would still bet a pound to a penny that in their good years that their club side was their priority over their national side in terms of interest and attendance.
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™d agree itâ€™s a priority, especially as Clubs have suffered due to injuries done when away.
Utd fans seemed to turn away on mass when Bruce and Pallister were ignored and yet they were the best English pairing in the League.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Iâ€™d agree itâ€™s a priority, especially as Clubs have suffered due to injuries done when away.
Utd fans seemed to turn away on mass when Bruce and Pallister were ignored and yet they were the best English pairing in the League.
		
Click to expand...

I think your wrong on United fans timing, I think it was after Beckham getting blamed for Engalnd's exit after his sending off, followed by Phil Neville's blaming for giving that penalty away in another major championship, and subsequent booing of United players in other games.

Lets face it most England fans who attend games are divvies.


----------



## Slime (Oct 13, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think your wrong on United fans timing, I think it was after Beckham getting blamed for Engalnd's exit after his sending off, followed by Phil Neville's blaming for giving that penalty away in another major championship, and subsequent booing of United players in other games.

Lets face it *most England fans who attend games are divvies*.
		
Click to expand...

Why do you think that?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 13, 2019)

Slime said:



			Why do you think that?
		
Click to expand...

Why do you not think that, based on 30 years of seeing non-sports new coverage of England games, and dont give me "its a small minority" tripe.


----------



## Slime (Oct 13, 2019)

I'd say the minority of attending England fans may be 'divvies', but the majority are genuine England football fans who enjoy supporting their nation.
Why is that tripe?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 13, 2019)

Slime said:



			I'd say the minority of attending England fans may be 'divvies', but the majority are genuine England football fans who enjoy supporting their nation.
Why is that tripe?
		
Click to expand...

So why have I often seen hundreds and even thousands ripping up foreign capital cities then?

Thats even before going into 2 world wars, german bombers, IRA songs, anti-Man U songs, anti-scouse and I'm sure much more. No problem with England cricket, Rugby and most other sports but the footy fans are a different breed.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 13, 2019)




----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 13, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Why do you not think that, based on 30 years of seeing non-sports new coverage of England games, and dont give me "its a small minority" tripe.
		
Click to expand...

Sadly it began with Club supporters misbehaving in Europe first, look at the trouble caused in the 70â€™s abroad.
Itâ€™s semantics on how large a minority is, but I wouldnâ€™t tar all those going abroad with the same brush.


----------



## Slime (Oct 13, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			So why have I often seen hundreds and even thousands ripping up foreign capital cities then?

Thats even before going into 2 world wars, german bombers, IRA songs, anti-Man U songs, anti-scouse and I'm sure much more. No problem with England cricket, Rugby and most other sports but the footy fans are a different breed.
		
Click to expand...

Surely you realise that they are the minority.
Anyway, I don't want to get involved in another spat.
Let's just accept that our opinions differ somewhat.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 13, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 28369

Click to expand...

That's completely false, McTominay's hit against Arsenal was in September. They got 4 goals in September. I don't know why people just make stuff up in Tweets and people share them without even checking. 

Regarding England's centre backs, I do think Gomez would be starting but you need to be starting for your club to be starting for England. That's the way it should be I think.


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 13, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 28369

Click to expand...

LP the gift that keeps on giving 
Numpty


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 13, 2019)

Orikoru said:



*That's completely false, McTominay's hit against Arsenal was in September. They got 4 goals in September. I don't know why people just make stuff up in Tweets and people share them without even checking.*

Regarding England's centre backs, I do think Gomez would be starting but you need to be starting for your club to be starting for England. That's the way it should be I think.
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ Itâ€™s a joke


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 13, 2019)

Sky Sports News reporting Mings to make his debut tomorrow against Bulgaria..............Please let it be in place of Keane.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 13, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Sky Sports News reporting Mings to make his debut tomorrow against Bulgaria..............Please let it be in place of Keane. 

Click to expand...

Maguire wonâ€™t be getting dropped.

Itâ€™s ok Southgate (or any other manager) giving youngsters a chance but theyâ€™ve got to be good enough.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 13, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ Itâ€™s a joke


View attachment 28371

Click to expand...

Jokes normally include some sort of humour to let you know it's a joke. If I wrote a tweet that said Salah still hadn't scored this season would that be a joke? You could always just admit you were fooled by a fake news tweet.


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 14, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Jokes normally include some sort of humour to let you know it's a joke. If I wrote a tweet that said Salah still hadn't scored this season would that be a joke? You could always just admit you were fooled by a fake news tweet.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair the joke was posted by the person on here with the least sense of humour who can't take banta so he prob thought it was hilarious

Bless him


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 14, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Jokes normally include some sort of humour to let you know it's a joke. If I wrote a tweet that said Salah still hadn't scored this season would that be a joke? You could always just admit you were fooled by a fake news tweet.
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ Do you really not get it ? Come on ? 
oh and it wasnâ€™t a tweet - WhatS App from a Manc fan ðŸ™„


pauljames87 said:



			To be fair the joke was posted by the person on here with the least sense of humour who can't take banta so he prob thought it was hilarious

Bless him
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s always you isnâ€™t it - for some reason you feel obliged to make it about the poster - thatâ€™s your level of input , well done ðŸ™„


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ Do you really not get it ? Come on ?
oh and it wasnâ€™t a tweet - WhatS App from a Manc fan ðŸ™„


Itâ€™s always you isnâ€™t it - for some reason you feel obliged to make it about the poster - thatâ€™s your level of input , well done ðŸ™„
		
Click to expand...

Far superior to your level of input ðŸ¤£


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 14, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Sadly it began with Club supporters misbehaving in Europe first, look at the trouble caused in the 70â€™s abroad.
Itâ€™s semantics on how large a minority is, but I wouldnâ€™t tar all those going abroad with the same brush.
		
Click to expand...

I havent said all.

Your right, if 3001 or 2999 out of 6,000 are acting up maj/minority doesnt matter, but if England take over 10,000 anywhere you can bet your bottom dollar that thousands of them will be looking to cause trouble, or be involved in it or will bring general knobheadishness to the local populace or police force. Thats also before they fight amongst themselves, as well. not sure that happens as much nowadays, but I know years ago little firms used to take on some of their rivals when away on England "duty".


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 14, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I havent said all.

Your right, if 3001 or 2999 out of 6,000 are acting up maj/minority doesnt matter, but if England take over 10,000 anywhere you can bet your bottom dollar that thousands of them will be looking to cause trouble, or be involved in it or will bring general knobheadishness to the local populace or police force.
		
Click to expand...

I know you didnâ€™t say all, you said most are divvies!
I agree 100% the National side attracts scum/divvies/knobheads etc,
Unfortunately those same people also follow Club sides and also like Club sides the majority of fans who follow England around the world will be decent.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 14, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			I know you didnâ€™t say all, you said most are divvies!
I agree 100% the National side attracts scum/divvies/knobheads etc,
Unfortunately those same people also follow Club sides and also like Club sides the majority of fans who follow England around the world will be decent.
		
Click to expand...

Dunno, Liverpool have some right rotters and twerps.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 14, 2019)

Not sure what TAA has done wrong to be on the bench again

And a Rashford for Sancho ?! Really ?

I see Danny Mills picked a current combined Liverpool/UTD 11 and picked no  UTD players ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ - hard  to disagree ( have a feeling they will get a result )


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Not sure what TAA has done wrong to be on the bench again*

And a Rashford for Sancho ?! Really ?
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully Southgate is putting club before country ðŸ¤žðŸ˜‰

In fairness hes not even the best RB in the squad....


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 14, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Hopefully Southgate is putting club before country ðŸ¤žðŸ˜‰

In fairness hes not even the *best RB in the squad.*...
		
Click to expand...

Defensively I guess you mean Gomez ?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 14, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Hopefully Southgate is putting club before country ðŸ¤žðŸ˜‰

In fairness hes not even the best RB in the squad....
		
Click to expand...

You have knowledge of the squad Stu?
You need to come out the closet about your support for England.


----------



## Slime (Oct 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not sure what TAA has done wrong to be on the bench again

And a Rashford for Sancho ?! Really ?

I see Danny Mills picked a current combined Liverpool/UTD 11 and picked no  UTD players ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ - hard  to disagree ( *have a feeling they will get a result* )
		
Click to expand...

Me too.
I'm going 1-3 to England with a goal from Rashford, possibly the worst player in international football.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 14, 2019)

Slime said:



			Me too.
I'm going 1-3 to England with a goal from Rashford, possibly the worst player in international football.
		
Click to expand...

Eh ? Was talking about the match between UTD and Liverpool


----------



## fundy (Oct 14, 2019)

off the ground, studs showing, out of control?

thats a red according to most on here isnt it?


----------



## PieMan (Oct 14, 2019)

At least 1 positive for England so early in the game - a booking for Henderson and he misses the next game!!! ðŸ˜‰ðŸ¤­ðŸ˜€ Dreadful control ðŸ˜¡


----------



## PieMan (Oct 14, 2019)

Rashford..........ðŸ˜€ðŸ˜€


----------



## Slime (Oct 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Eh ? Was talking about the match between UTD and Liverpool
		
Click to expand...

Ooops, my mistake.


----------



## Slime (Oct 14, 2019)

Ooooh.
That wasn't too dusty.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not sure what TAA has done wrong to be on the bench again

*And a Rashford for Sancho ?! Really ?*

I see Danny Mills picked a current combined Liverpool/UTD 11 and picked no  UTD players ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ - hard  to disagree ( have a feeling they will get a result )
		
Click to expand...

Are you Homer in disguise?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 14, 2019)

Just shows what Rashford can do in a decent team.

3-0 if we score again can see this being abandoned they have started already.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 14, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just shows what Rashford can do in a decent team.

3-0 if we score again can see this being abandoned they have started already.
		
Click to expand...

I was just thinking that. Slight flaw in walking off to combat racism is that their fans probably want us to walk off at this point.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 14, 2019)

fundy said:



			off the ground, studs showing, out of control?

thats a red according to most on here isnt it?
		
Click to expand...

If he hadnâ€™t stubbed his toe in the turf I would say yes.
Dreadful tackle ,poor control, some times you just have to concede you have lost the ball and not lunge in like that.


----------



## Slime (Oct 14, 2019)

Walking off is not the answer, it could play into their hands.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 14, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I was just thinking that. Slight flaw in walking off to combat racism is that their fans probably want us to walk off at this point.
		
Click to expand...

Do we get the points if the ref calls it off?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 14, 2019)

They will do well to last until 60 mins at this rate


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 14, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Do we get the points if the ref calls it off?
		
Click to expand...

I have absolutely no idea. You would hope so or else the whole situation is a bit of a farce.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 14, 2019)

Slime said:



			Walking off is not the answer, it could play into their hands.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s the only answer until they learn, and that includes in this Country as well.
No player should be made to stay on a football pitch and accept abuse.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 14, 2019)

Slime said:



			Walking off is not the answer, it could play into their hands.
		
Click to expand...

But the players should have to stand there and listen to it - not enough has been done by UEFA to sort it , the fact players can get fined more for advertising than Countries get fined for racism shows how much UEFA or FIFA really want to sort it 

Until they start applying country bans and awarding games then itâ€™s going to continue


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 14, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I have absolutely no idea. You would hope so or else the whole situation is a bit of a farce.
		
Click to expand...

They have a three step action plan ,but nobody seems to know what happens then.
Putting an Italian in charge is typical as their record is not exactly good.
But it happens everywhere..


----------



## AmandaJR (Oct 14, 2019)

It's a disgrace...not sure what the answer is but no person should have to take that abuse. Shocking.


----------



## NWJocko (Oct 14, 2019)

Uefa must be bricking themselves......

Part of me actually wants to see the end point of this "protocol" enforced and abandon the game tbh.  It's great to see racist behaviour (finally) being challenged but if they are going to give the morons 2 chances before they all leave the ground and think that is "OK" as routine then nothing really changes, they "watch" and spout their bile for half an hour then leave.


----------



## Slime (Oct 14, 2019)

I see a section of them have left the ground at half time.
The word 'ambush' springs to mind.


----------



## Slime (Oct 14, 2019)

NWJocko said:



			Uefa must be bricking themselves......

*Part of me actually wants to see the end point of this "protocol" enforced and abandon the game tbh.*  It's great to see racist behaviour (finally) being challenged but if they are going to give the morons 2 chances before they all leave the ground and think that is "OK" as routine then nothing really changes, they "watch" and spout their bile for half an hour then leave.
		
Click to expand...

No doubt the racists would then claim a victory.


----------



## NWJocko (Oct 14, 2019)

Slime said:



			No doubt the racists would then claim a victory.
		
Click to expand...

OK then, just let them crack on


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 14, 2019)

Slime said:



			No doubt the racists would then claim a victory.
		
Click to expand...

So what is the answer then ? The game carries on whilst players are subjected to abuse ? Why should stand there and listen to it - it needs drastic action to force the authorities into stronger sanctions and walking off does that


----------



## AmandaJR (Oct 14, 2019)

How did those guys even get in? Not exactly hiding their yobbish traits were they?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 14, 2019)

Slime said:



			No doubt the racists would then claim a victory.
		
Click to expand...

Or embarrass their Country and lead to possible bans and bigger fines.
The only ones thatâ€™ll be impressed are their fellow racists.


----------



## fundy (Oct 14, 2019)

So theyve confirmed its continued in the 2nd half, why are they still out there? Really need to be seen to be following their procedure for me


----------



## fundy (Oct 14, 2019)

AmandaJR said:



			How did those guys even get in? Not exactly hiding their yobbish traits were they?
		
Click to expand...

If you stopped entry on appearance average attendance in most football games would be way down!!!!!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 14, 2019)

AmandaJR said:



			How did those guys even get in? Not exactly hiding their yobbish traits were they?
		
Click to expand...

To be fair though, we also have similar types in our Country who go to games.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So what is the answer then ? The game carries on whilst players are subjected to abuse ? Why should stand there and listen to it - it needs drastic action to force the authorities into stronger sanctions and walking off does that
		
Click to expand...

We can only walk off if we're 100% sure we'll be awarded the victory though. As that shows our actions are being backed. Currently nobody seems sure if that will happen.


----------



## fundy (Oct 14, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			We can only walk off if we're 100% sure we'll be awarded the victory though. As that shows our actions are being backed. Currently nobody seems sure if that will happen.
		
Click to expand...

really? so the result is more important than stamping out racism? get the priorities right!!!!!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 14, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			We can only walk off if we're 100% sure we'll be awarded the victory though. As that shows our actions are being backed. Currently nobody seems sure if that will happen.
		
Click to expand...

The result is irrelevant at the end of the day , it doesnâ€™t matter in the grand scheme of things - this is players being subjected to constant racist abuse - is the result more crucial than that


----------



## NWJocko (Oct 14, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			We can only walk off if we're 100% sure we'll be awarded the victory though. As that shows our actions are being backed. Currently nobody seems sure if that will happen.
		
Click to expand...

What does winning have to do about it? If you're being backed it's Uefa that need to step up and remove games from these countries to take away the platform these idiots have.

As someone else said, that's true of the FA and England (and SFA and Scotland re sectarianism), Southgate went way up in my estimation when he was shining the spotlight on our own country(ies), a lot of work to be done here aswell.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 14, 2019)

fundy said:



			really? so the result is more important than stamping out racism? get the priorities right!!!!!
		
Click to expand...




Liverpoolphil said:



			The result is irrelevant at the end of the day , it doesnâ€™t matter in the grand scheme of things - this is players being subjected to constant racist abuse - is the result more crucial than that
		
Click to expand...

Following on from what we said earlier - if the result isn't awarded then that only encourages the losing fans to abuse players in the hope of getting it abandoned doesn't it. Would be no deterrent at all. Use your loaf.

The nation's have to be given defeats and subsequently banned from competing,  anything less and the abusive fans will not care.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 14, 2019)

Great goal from Sterling.

I think if they were going to come off they have had enough abuse ,if you threaten to do something you must follow through with it.


----------



## Slime (Oct 14, 2019)

fundy said:



			really? so the result is more important than stamping out racism? get the priorities right!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

I feel a bit uncomfortable that it's down to the players to stamp out racism, it shouldn't be that way.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 14, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Following on from what we said earlier - if the result isn't awarded then that only encourages the losing fans to abuse players in the hope of getting it abandoned doesn't it. Would be no detterant at all. Use your loaf.

The nation's have to be given defeats and subsequently banned from competing,  anything less and the abusive fans will not care.
		
Click to expand...

Worst case we play them again behind close doors, thatâ€™s still better than allowing a player to be abused.


----------



## fundy (Oct 14, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Following on from what we said earlier - if the result isn't awarded then that only encourages the losing fans to abuse players in the hope of getting it abandoned doesn't it. Would be no detterant at all. Use your loaf. 

The nation's have to be given defeats and subsequently banned from competing,  anything less and the abusive fans will not care.
		
Click to expand...


Sorry but thats horseshit, if UEFA arent going to sort it which they clearly arent then the teams need to lead and not accept it, pull their sides off and put more pressure onto UEFA to force them to the right thing


----------



## Slime (Oct 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



*So what is the answer then ? *The game carries on whilst players are subjected to abuse ? Why should stand there and listen to it - it needs drastic action to force the authorities into stronger sanctions and walking off does that
		
Click to expand...

I don't know, obviously.
I just don't think that walking off is the answer.


----------



## fundy (Oct 14, 2019)

Slime said:



			I feel a bit uncomfortable that it's down to the players to stamp out racism, it shouldn't be that way.
		
Click to expand...

no it shouldnt but if there is a clear protocol and UEFA arent following their own rules then you have no choice to make a stand surely, stay out there your ultimately accepting it sadly


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 14, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Following on from what we said earlier - if the result isn't awarded then that only encourages the losing fans to abuse players in the hope of getting it abandoned doesn't it. Would be no detterant at all. Use your loaf.

The nation's have to be given defeats and subsequently banned from competing,  anything less and the abusive fans will not care.
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸

They arenâ€™t racially abusing players in the hope of getting the game abandoned- are you really that naive 

Result is irrelevant- strong sanctions are required 

The fact you believe they should only walk off if they get awarded the game is unbelievable 

Players walk off - UEFA acts and applies bans to countries - the racist bigots donâ€™t win then


----------



## NWJocko (Oct 14, 2019)

Slime said:



			I don't know, obviously.
I just don't think that walking off is the answer.
		
Click to expand...


Just so I'm clear.....

You think players should carry on playing whilst receiving racist abuse?  You think that's right, yes?

If so, wow.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 14, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Worst case we play them again behind close doors, thatâ€™s still better than allowing a player to be abused.
		
Click to expand...

Well I don't agree at all. If we then lose the game in a replay then the idiot fans have won and got their team a result! So what are they gonna do next time they're allowed in and their team are losing?


----------



## Slime (Oct 14, 2019)

NWJocko said:



			Just so I'm clear.....

You think players should carry on playing whilst receiving racist abuse?  You think that's right, yes?

If so, wow.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, I think they should play on.
No, I don't think receiving racist abuse is right.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 14, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Worst case we play them again behind close doors, thatâ€™s still better than allowing a player to be abused.
		
Click to expand...

Just refuse to play there that will force EUFAs hands to make a decision.


----------



## NWJocko (Oct 14, 2019)

fundy said:



			Sorry but thats horseshit, if UEFA arent going to sort it which they clearly arent then the teams need to lead and not accept it, pull their sides off and put more pressure onto UEFA to force them to the right thing
		
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more, the governing body are an absolute disgrace, all they care about is the Â£ and their product.

Imagine the level discomfort in Uefa head offices if a team walked off in the Champions League final because of racist abuse!!  Not with regards to the welfare of the players but the impact on their profitability


----------



## NWJocko (Oct 14, 2019)

Slime said:



			Yes.
		
Click to expand...

As I said.

Wow.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 14, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Well I don't agree at all. If we then lose the game in a replay then the idiot fans have won and got their team a result! So what are they gonna do next time they're allowed in and their team are losing?
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™d rather lose in a safe environment than win when players are subjected to abuse.

Obviously this is a first step and UEFA/FIFA are going to have to step the sanctions up, I genuinely donâ€™t believe it would be replayed, but a stand has to be taken.


----------



## Dando (Oct 14, 2019)

Great substitution to bring on Kane


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 14, 2019)

Slime said:



			Yes, I think they should play on.
No, I don't think receiving racist abuse is right.
		
Click to expand...

So the player has to continue kicking a ball about and listen to bigots , fascists and racists shouting abuse at him because of the colour of their skin all because of a game ?! I canâ€™t comprehend that you think thatâ€™s the right thing to do 

UEFA tonight have failed to follow through on their own protocol - the minute the racist abuse started again second half they should have walked off.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸

They arenâ€™t racially abusing players in the hope of getting the game abandoned- are you really that naive

Result is irrelevant- strong sanctions are required

The fact you believe they should only walk off if they get awarded the game is unbelievable

Players walk off - UEFA acts and applies bans to countries - the racist bigots donâ€™t win then
		
Click to expand...

No but I'm sure they do care about the result. Walking off and the match just gets replayed isn't a deterrent. If we walk off we need to know we're backed by UEFA and that Bulgaria are punished, firstly by giving us the result automatically (even if we weren't leading the game), and subsequently by them having to play behind closed doors or even being banned from competing.

It's not that hard to understand so hopefully I don't have to explain to you a third time.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 14, 2019)

Dando said:



			Great substitution to bring on Kane
		
Click to expand...

Eh? Kane has been superb all night.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 14, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			No but I'm sure they do care about the result. Walking off and the match just gets replayed isn't a deterrent. If we walk off we need to know we're backed by UEFA and that Bulgaria are punished, firstly by giving us the result automatically (even if we weren't leading the game), and subsequently by them having to play behind closed doors or even being banned from competing.

It's not that hard to understand so hopefully I don't have to explain to you a third time.

Click to expand...

Itâ€™s not that straightforward either, England v AN Other in a WC Match, 3rd set of fans or locals abuse opposition in the hope England get banned or opposition get given game.


----------



## fundy (Oct 14, 2019)

So what action do UEFA take?

1 game behind closed doors and a 25k fine or are they finally going to take it seriously?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 14, 2019)

I still believe we have racist issues in our game and canâ€™t take a â€œholier than thouâ€ attitude, Ian Wright speaking very well about the subject.

Thought England put in a really good performance, Mings may not be the answer, but a far better player than Keane, Chillwell looked much better than Rose. Barkley probably had his best game in an England shirt.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 14, 2019)

On the footy.
Bit wasteful from us we should have put double figures past them tonight.

EUFA just what I expected all talk in the end no balls.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 14, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			No but I'm sure they do care about the result. Walking off and the match just gets replayed isn't a deterrent. If we walk off we need to know we're backed by UEFA and that Bulgaria are punished, firstly by giving us the result automatically (even if we weren't leading the game), and subsequently by them having to play behind closed doors or even being banned from competing.

It's not that hard to understand so hopefully I don't have to explain to you a third time.

Click to expand...

Itâ€™s time for a team to take action - and if that means walking off to force UEFA to make a strong statement about it then it needs to happen - players should never ever feel they need to stay on a pitch listening to racist abuse regardless of result - itâ€™s no surprise you fail to understand that


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 14, 2019)

fundy said:



			So what action do UEFA take?

1 game behind closed doors and a 25k fine or are they finally going to take it seriously?
		
Click to expand...

I think tonight is the turning point of taking the power from UEFA and giving it to the teams, hopefully it will lead to other teams taking it seriously and protecting their players.
UEFA will then be forced into stepping up their response.


----------



## fundy (Oct 14, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			I think tonight is the turning point of taking the power from UEFA and giving it to the teams, hopefully it will lead to other teams taking it seriously and protecting their players.
UEFA will then be forced into stepping up their response.
		
Click to expand...


I hope youre right, I genuinely think we would be closer to that point if tonights game hadnt actually finished and UEFAs hand was forced, until it is they will keep dodging the issue if their previous is anything to go by


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Itâ€™s time for a team to take action - and if that means walking off to force UEFA to make a strong statement about it then it needs to happen - players should never ever feel they need to stay on a pitch listening to racist abuse regardless of result - itâ€™s no surprise you fail to understand that
		
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure teams have walked off before already haven't they? Did it work?


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 14, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



*You have knowledge of the squad Stu*?
You need to come out the closet about your support for England.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I actually watch Sky Sports news and listen to 5Live, I dont switch off when they talk about how great they are ðŸ˜‰

Knowledge is power ðŸ‘


----------



## fundy (Oct 14, 2019)

so throwing 50 people out at half time and a reduced level of racism was enough to allow the second half to be played. WALOFS


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 14, 2019)

fundy said:



			I hope youre right, I genuinely think we would be closer to that point if tonights game hadnt actually finished and UEFAs hand was forced, until it is they will keep dodging the issue if their previous is anything to go by
		
Click to expand...

As theyâ€™ve just mentioned those protocols have been in place 10yrs and only now is a team making a stand.
Hopefully it will give other teams the confidence to walk off.


----------



## fundy (Oct 14, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			As theyâ€™ve just mentioned those protocols have been in place 10yrs and only now is a team making a stand.
Hopefully it will give other teams the confidence to walk off.
		
Click to expand...


listening to that interview from Greg Clarke England should have walked off, clear and simple for me


----------



## Slime (Oct 14, 2019)

fundy said:



			so throwing 50 people out at half time and a reduced level of racism was enough to allow the second half to be played. WALOFS
		
Click to expand...

Apparently it's what Southgate and the team wanted, are they wrong, too?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 14, 2019)

fundy said:



			listening to that interview from Greg Clarke England should have walked off, clear and simple for me
		
Click to expand...

Maybe, but I do think UEFA and others would simply point out the issues in our game to deflect from themselves.
That was the tactic used by the Bulgarian coach yesterday in his pre-match interview.


----------



## Slime (Oct 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So the player has to continue kicking a ball about and listen to bigots , fascists and racists shouting abuse at him because of the colour of their skin all because of a game ?! I canâ€™t comprehend that you think thatâ€™s the right thing to do

*UEFA* tonight have failed to follow through on their own protocol - the minute the racist abuse started again second half they should have walked off.
		
Click to expand...

Surely you mean England?


----------



## fundy (Oct 14, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Maybe, but I do think UEFA and others would simply point out the issues in our game to deflect from themselves.
That was the tactic used by the Bulgarian coach yesterday in his pre-match interview.
		
Click to expand...

He admitted that they were at phase 3 of the protocol, that players and backroom staff were clearly affected, the racism was reduced but continued after that point, yet he failed to act


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 14, 2019)

Slime said:



			Surely you mean England?
		
Click to expand...

No UEFA - there was clear racist abuse being heard in the second half - itâ€™s up to the UEFA officials who heard to act


----------



## fundy (Oct 14, 2019)

The way these interviews are its as if England had planned to get it to the brink without following through!

Would have liked to have heard more from Wrighty calling out Greg Clarke personally


----------



## Slime (Oct 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No UEFA - there was clear racist abuse being heard in the second half - itâ€™s up to the UEFA officials who heard to act
		
Click to expand...

But it was up to England to walk off, and they chose not to.
Enough has been seen and heard in this match to, hopefully, achieve the correct actions going forward.
I think the England players and staff have unequivocally moved the racist goalposts, with their reactions to tonight's events, and that can only be a good thing.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 14, 2019)

fundy said:



			The way these interviews are its as if England had planned to get it to the brink without following through!

Would have liked to have heard more from Wrighty calling out Greg Clarke personally
		
Click to expand...

Agreed, Mings and Southgate stated it was a Squad decision to play the 2nd half and Mings didnâ€™t say he heard anything in that half.
Wrighty was spot on and I donâ€™t think itâ€™ll be the last time we hear from him.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 14, 2019)

Slime said:



			But it was up to England to walk off, and they chose not to.
Enough has been seen and heard in this match to, hopefully, achieve the correct actions going forward.
I think the England players and staff have unequivocally moved the racist goalposts, with their reactions to tonight's events, and that can only be a good thing.
		
Click to expand...

I donâ€™t think you understand the protocols 

Racist abuse heard - reported by someone , players etc - UEFA official act , then itâ€™s the 3 step protocol 

UEFA failed to follow through after step 1 despite the racist abuse continuing 

UEFA should have carried out the remaining steps when the racist abuse continued 

Because they didnâ€™t imo the players should have walked off and forced UEFAâ€™s hand 

I suspect this incident wonâ€™t change UEFA - it will be the bare minimum fine and an extension of the partial stadium ban 

The Protocol 

The referee will speak to the stadium announcer and demand the halting of racist behaviour.
If it continues, the referee can take the players off the field into the dressing rooms for a period of time and the stadium announcer will make another address.
If it still continues, the match will be abandoned.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 15, 2019)

Thought Southgate and the England camp handled that brilliantly last night. It was clear they wanted to get the game to half time and discuss it further in the dressing room and it seemed they wanted to let the football do the talking as much as possible. If the game had been abandoned and the result hadn't stood, it meant having to come back to Bulgaria again and I can't see too many people, especially the club managers wanting that. They made their point, UEFA activated the initial parts of the protocol and the idiots were asked to leave the ground (out of interest was it all quiet after the game?).

Football and UEFA in particular has to take a stance and lead on this. It isn't just Bulgaria though and its rife across Europe and sadly go to a number of PL grounds and listen and you can hear it here too. Unless fans in the crowd out these morons and the courts then take strong action, the problem just keeps happening. For now though, pleased to have got the win and let UEFA sort any Bulgarian punishment out


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 15, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Thought Southgate and the England camp handled that brilliantly last night. It was clear they wanted to get the game to half time and discuss it further in the dressing room and it seemed they wanted to let the football do the talking as much as possible. If the game had been abandoned and the result hadn't stood, it meant having to come back to Bulgaria again and I can't see too many people, especially the club managers wanting that. They made their point, UEFA activated the initial parts of the protocol and the idiots were asked to leave the ground (out of interest was it all quiet after the game?).

Football and UEFA in particular has to take a stance and lead on this. It isn't just Bulgaria though and its rife across Europe and sadly go to a number of PL grounds and listen and you can hear it here too. Unless fans in the crowd out these morons and the courts then take strong action, the problem just keeps happening. For now though, pleased to have got the win *and let UEFA sort any Bulgarian punishment out*

Click to expand...

ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ That lot couldn't sort a bag of dolly mixtures.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 15, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ That lot couldn't sort a bag of dolly mixtures.
		
Click to expand...

I agree totally but as they are the people in charge you have to assume at some point they'll realise its time to act and show to be a responsible body. OK, I know it's a long way (if ever) off and you have to live in hope, but surely even UEFA will take more action. I wonder, if once they've forced a nation to play behind closed doors etc, there could be a case (again I am sure it'll never happen) to simply expel them from the next Nations League and UEFA qualifying. Maybe that'll get the message across. Didn't they threaten England with similar on the back of Heysel and other incidents?


----------



## Slime (Oct 15, 2019)

In line with Uefa protocol, *England had the option to walk off *the pitch but played the full 90 minutes.
It appears I'm not the only one to think that walking off is not the answer.

As NWJocko would say;
"You think players should carry on playing whilst receiving racist abuse?  You think that's right, yes?
If so, wow".

The players obviously thought so.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 15, 2019)

Slime said:



			In line with Uefa protocol, *England had the option to walk off *the pitch but played the full 90 minutes.
It appears I'm not the only one to think that walking off is not the answer.

As NWJocko would say;
"You think players should carry on playing whilst receiving racist abuse?  You think that's right, yes?
If so, wow".

The players obviously thought so.
		
Click to expand...

I honestly think they were satisfied that a large number of fans had been removed, so _something_ had been done - and the fact that they were 4-0 up they probably thought let's just see it out and get the f out of here. If you walk off, run the risk of UEFA saying the game is to be replayed and have to go through it all again? I don't know what the right or wrong call was, just saying I can totally understand why they didn't walk off by that stage. Mings said in his interview that they heard considerably less abuse in the second half, not zero but far less, and he was proud with how they acted on the day. I think it's difficult for us as observers to say they did right or wrong really.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 15, 2019)

Seems like they talked it over at half time as a collective and decided to play on https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50050477

Looks like the Bulgarian PM taking steps to oust the Bulgarian FA Director for "not hearing" and doing nothing to stop the problem https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50054475


----------



## MegaSteve (Oct 15, 2019)

The departure of the black hooded brigade looked a tad stage managed to me... And, they certainly didn't have the look of genuine footie fans... 

And and, why stop at kicking out racism? How about addressing all the other vile 'stuff' that emanates from the terraces... Much/all of it wouldn't be tolerated in the work place...


----------



## 4LEX (Oct 15, 2019)

Unfortunately until teams walk off, games get abandoned and the bad press follows, all it'll be is a few days of talk and some nice Instragram posts. ITV couldn't have shut Ian Wright down quickly enough when he started having a rant. The guy is pretty clueless generally but the one time he had a point he was hushed up as ITV didn't want anyone in Team England being given stick.

The problem lies with every nation and we need to look at ourselves . If anyone has been to watch England away the abuse that gets dished out to Muslims, Turks and anyone that isn't visably English is shocking.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 15, 2019)

And given that in 2014 St Johnstone were fined Â£14,300 for a first offence when a silly young lad unfurled a Palestinian flag during a Europa league game...how many millions should the Bulgarian FA be fined...but they won't be.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 15, 2019)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And given that in 2014 St Johnstone were fined Â£14,300 for a first offence when a silly young lad unfurled a Palestinian flag during a Europa league game...how many millions should the Bulgarian FA be fined...but they won't be.
		
Click to expand...

Fines donâ€™t work .
They should be thrown out and banned from the World Cup and the next euros that might sort it.
At the very least no team will have to go there for a very long time.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 15, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Fines donâ€™t work .
They should be thrown out and banned from the World Cup and the next euros that might sort it.
At the very least no team will have to go there for a very long time.
		
Click to expand...

Yea I'm not sure how fining their FA affects your typical racist in the crowd - it doesn't really. As you say, they need to be given matches behind closed doors or banned from competition altogether.


----------



## 3offTheTee (Oct 15, 2019)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And given that in 2014 St Johnstone were fined Â£14,300 for a first offence when a silly young lad unfurled a Palestinian flag during a Europa league game...how many millions should the Bulgarian FA be fined...but they won't be.
		
Click to expand...

Do NOT think you need to worry about that happening next season Hughi! Sorry


----------



## fundy (Oct 15, 2019)

Impressive performance from the U21 team tonight, Hudson Odoi and Nketiah with the goals, Foden and Willock pulling the strings


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 15, 2019)

Interesting article from The Independent today.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...cism-liverpool-chelsea-news-a9155836.html?amp


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 15, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Interesting article from The Independent today.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...cism-liverpool-chelsea-news-a9155836.html?amp

Click to expand...

Mate of mine knows John Terry's mums bf (who is black) he asked him about the situation and he said Anton said to him your mum sucks black c*** so I just replied f off you black etc 

His reply was fair enough bloke was an idiot


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 15, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Interesting article from The Independent today.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...cism-liverpool-chelsea-news-a9155836.html?amp

Click to expand...

Blaming Suarez and Terry is laughable.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 16, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Blaming Suarez and Terry is laughable.
		
Click to expand...

He isnâ€™t!


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			He isnâ€™t!
		
Click to expand...

He is. Taken from the final paragraph.

_Suarez and Terry did not create the toxic mood _but *they helped set the tone for a decade that would get progressively wors**e. *They, and the people who backed them to the hilt, should look back in shame.

Society is to blame for racism, This government and society has set the tone for racism in this country.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 16, 2019)

Heâ€™s saying they should take some responsibility for their part in it, heâ€™s not putting all the blame on them.
Arenâ€™t they and those who supported them part of society?


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Heâ€™s saying they should take some responsibility for their part in it, heâ€™s not putting all the blame on them.
Arenâ€™t they and those who supported them part of society?
		
Click to expand...

No he's not, he is saying very clearly that those 2 have "set the tone", that is unfair on both players. It's a backhanded statement of "it's not their fault, but it is".

The tone has been set by previous agenerations. 

Considering the amount of football that's played and fans that go to games,there's very few racist incidents in British football on a weekly basis. I'm not saying it doesnt happen btw, and with the amount of phones on show during games I'd be surprised if much of it gets missed. 

On the continent, it's very different. There attitude to racism isnt nowhere near at the level as ours is here in Britain. 

Suarez and Terry's incidents are isolated incidents that we've seen in this country. To suggest they've "set the tone" is absurd.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 16, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			No he's not, he is saying very clearly that those 2 have "set the tone", that is unfair on both players. It's a backhanded statement of "it's not their fault, but it is".

The tone has been set by previous agenerations.

Considering the amount of football that's played and fans that go to games,there's very few racist incidents in British football on a weekly basis. I'm not saying it doesnt happen btw, and with the amount of phones on show during games I'd be surprised if much of it gets missed.

On the continent, it's very different. There attitude to racism isnt nowhere near at the level as ours is here in Britain.

Suarez and Terry's incidents are isolated incidents that we've seen in this country. To suggest they've "set the tone" is absurd.
		
Click to expand...

Heâ€™s suggesting that because of the way both cases were handled, handled by the players, the Clubs, the fans and the FA, all had a role to play in what when on and what was to follow.
Everton fans were (and still in parts) one of the worst Clubs for racist abuse over the years, but the hypocrisy on Everton forums over the Bulgarian fans the other night was truly laughable.
It doesnâ€™t matter if we only hear about isolated incidents we still need to sort it out and those 2 isolated incidents he mentioned still had repercussions for years afterwards.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 16, 2019)

18 Memorable moments from the Premier League..........Can you name them.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 16, 2019)

Wenger sent off then standing on dugout
Cantona Kung Fu
Klinsman Dive Celeb
Yeboah volley
Di Canio pushing Allcock
Beckham from halfway line
Rooney Overhead kick
Delia Smith - lets be having you
Keegan - would love it
Fowler sniffing the line celeb because of drug chats
Gerrard slip
Taylor on Eduardo tackle
Suarez biting Ivanovic
The missed penalty by Ruud VN then Keown and all jumping all over him
Beachball at Sunderland
Messed up penalty between Pires and Henry
Shearer Celeb


Not sure what the Arsenal sending off is about edit - I think Webb sent off the wrong Arsenal player


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 16, 2019)

15. I think the away kit on one incident may be confusing me. If it is then I have 16. Well done to anyone who gets all 18.

Edit
LP - you've just spoilt everyone's bit of fun . I was wrong, it wasn't an away kit issue. 15 anyway.


----------



## richart (Oct 16, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			18 Memorable moments from the Premier League..........Can you name them.
View attachment 28378

Click to expand...

All but two I think. Not sure on red card, and two players fighting.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2019)

. 


Liverpoolphil said:



			Wenger sent off then standing on dugout
Cantona Kung Fu
Klinsman Dive Celeb
Yeboah volley
Di Canio pushing Allcock
Beckham from halfway line
Rooney Overhead kick
Delia Smith - lets be having you
Keegan - would love it
Fowler sniffing the line celeb because of drug chats
Gerrard slip
Taylor on Eduardo tackle
Suarez biting Ivanovic
The missed penalty by Ruud VN then Keown and all jumping all over him
Beachball at Sunderland
Messed up penalty between Pires and Henry
Shearer Celeb


*Not sure what the Arsenal sending off is about*

Click to expand...

Mistaken ID between Chamberlain and Gibbs


----------



## richart (Oct 16, 2019)

richart said:



			All but two I think. Not sure on red card, and two players fighting.
		
Click to expand...

Missed Suarez bite. Think you could have kept answers to yourself Phil. Spoiler alert !


----------



## MegaSteve (Oct 16, 2019)

Think I need to go to Specsavers ðŸ˜ž... Just about make out half the 'moments'...


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2019)

richart said:



			Missed Suarez bite. Think you could have kept answers to yourself Phil. Spoiler alert !
		
Click to expand...

Phil being phil....


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 16, 2019)

richart said:



			Missed Suarez bite. Think you could have kept answers to yourself Phil. Spoiler alert !
		
Click to expand...




Stuart_C said:



			Phil being phil....
		
Click to expand...

I was just answering the op ðŸ˜¢

And itâ€™s a few years old now and been done before ðŸ–•ðŸ˜‚


----------



## richart (Oct 16, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Phil being phil....
		
Click to expand...

 ðŸ˜†


----------



## richart (Oct 16, 2019)

Need to add Di Canio catching ball when keeper injured, and Agueroâ€™s goal against QPR to snatch championship.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 16, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			18 Memorable moments from the Premier League..........Can you name them.
View attachment 28378

Click to expand...

Haven't look at anyone else's replies as I wanted a go myself:
Top:
1. Klinsmann diving celebration
2. Yeboah's sweet volley
3. Pires and Henry making a hash of that 'passing penalty'
4. When the ball hit a fan's beach ball and deflected in
5. Rooney flukey bicycle goal that came off his shin
6. Suarez biting Ivanovic
7. Shearer just celebrating a goal like he always did?
Middle:
8. Di Canio shoving the ref over
9. Ref sends off Gibbs instead of Oxlade, or the other way round - mistaken identity anyway
10. _Liverpool player falling over.. honestly not sure what that is meant to be?_
11. I think that's Eduardo Da Silva getting his leg broken by the Birmingham player
12. Keown acting like a total bell end and jumping all over Van Nistelrooy
Bottom:
13. Becks scores from the half way line
14. Delia Smith "let's be having you!"
15. Fowler's 'snorting the line' celebration.
16. Keegan "I would LUV it if we beat them!"
In the crowd at the top:
17. Cantona kung fu kick on the fan
18. _There's a manager standing there, not really sure what that is for._


Edit: aaah man I can't believe I forgot that was Gerrard. What an idiot.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 16, 2019)

Would have thought Kieron Dyer and Bowyer fighting each other at Newcastle may have made it in also.

That memorable, I thought it was Alan Smith and Bowyer until I googled it - must be a Liverpool fan thing.


----------



## richart (Oct 16, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Would have thought Kieron Dyer and Bowyer fighting each other at Newcastle may have made it in also.

That memorable, I thought it was Alan Smith and Bowyer until I googled it - must be a Liverpool fan thing. 

Click to expand...

What about Jimmy Kebe pulling his socks up, that led to West Ham's Jack Collison getting sent off ? No ? Must be a Reading fan thing.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 16, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I was just answering the op ðŸ˜¢

And itâ€™s a few years old now and been done before ðŸ–•ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

bet you googled it ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 16, 2019)

Given that there are a couple of goals on there, I'd have found space for a Matt Le Tissier one. Maybe the one where he juggled it over the heads of two Newcastle players.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 16, 2019)

The Philip Albert chip over Schmiechel?


----------



## richart (Oct 16, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Given that there are a couple of goals on there, I'd have found space for a Matt Le Tissier one. Maybe the one where he juggled it over the heads of two Newcastle players.
		
Click to expand...

At first I thought the goalkeeper about to collect the ball, was the Man Utd Italian goalkeeper that let Le Tissier's dribble through his legs.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 16, 2019)

richart said:



			At first I thought the goalkeeper about to collect the ball, was the Man Utd Italian goalkeeper that let Le Tissier's dribble through his legs.

Click to expand...

Ha, there was another classic one back in the day as well when Tim Flowers was beaten by a clod of earth that sent the ball flying over his shoulder. Pitches are probably too good now for that to ever happen again.


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 16, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Given that there are a couple of goals on there, I'd have found space for a Matt Le Tissier one. Maybe the one where he juggled it over the heads of two Newcastle players.
		
Click to expand...

Not gonna lie. As soon as I saw the pic I looked all. Over the pitch for one of the multiple goals he scored worthy of being there. 

Should have known really. Story of his career he coukdnt even make this..... 

Fwiw for comic value I'd of had his goal agaisnt Taibi and left the beach ball.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 16, 2019)

richart said:



			What about Jimmy Kebe pulling his socks up, that led to West Ham's Jack Collison getting sent off ? No ? Must be a Reading fan thing.

Click to expand...

Forgot youse were in the prem.......


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Ha, there was another classic one back in the day as well when Tim Flowers was beaten by a clod of earth that sent the ball flying over his shoulder. Pitches are probably too good now for that to ever happen again.
		
Click to expand...

That was a Stan Collymore wonder strike ðŸ˜


----------



## 3offTheTee (Oct 16, 2019)

Ex Premier footballer so it could be in here or random irritations.

Paul Gascoigne on trial for giving a lady a kiss and classed as sexually assaulting a woman. The reason it could be in Rolando. Irritations is the estimated costs.Prosecuting/Defence lawyers plus all the hangers on. Anybody any idea of the estimates costs? Whatever the cost it is too muc.

Lesser charge now but jurors out for,the night.

what a waste of a talented  footballer as he has an estimated net worth of US$100,000


----------



## Slime (Oct 16, 2019)

3offTheTee said:



			Ex Premier footballer so it could be in here or random irritations.

Paul Gascoigne on trial for giving a lady a kiss and classed as sexually assaulting a woman. *The reason it could be in Rolando.* *Irritations is the estimated costs.*Prosecuting/Defence lawyers plus all the hangers on. Anybody any idea of the estimates costs? Whatever the cost *it is too muc.*

Lesser charge now but jurors out for,the night.

what a waste of a talented  footballer as he has an estimated net worth of US$100,000
		
Click to expand...

Predictive text?


----------



## 3offTheTee (Oct 16, 2019)

Slime said:



			Predictive text?
		
Click to expand...

Sorry S. Must do better. What makes it worse the first highlighted field I cannot remember what I said and the second highlighted last word should be much.
sincere apologies


----------



## Slime (Oct 16, 2019)

3offTheTee said:



			Paul Gascoigne on trial for giving a lady a kiss and classed as sexually assaulting a woman. *The reason it could be in Rolando. Irritations is the estimated costs*.Prosecuting/Defence lawyers plus all the hangers on. Anybody any idea of the estimates costs?
		
Click to expand...




3offTheTee said:



			Sorry S. Must do better. What makes it worse *the first highlighted field I cannot remember what I said* and the second highlighted last word should be much.
sincere apologies
		
Click to expand...


How about "The reason it could be in Random Irritations is the estimated costs"?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 16, 2019)

3offTheTee said:



			Sorry S. Must do better. What makes it worse the first highlighted field I cannot remember what I said and the second highlighted last word should be much.
sincere apologies
		
Click to expand...

That was Gazaâ€™s defence statement.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 16, 2019)

3offTheTee said:



			Ex Premier footballer so it could be in here or random irritations.

Paul Gascoigne on trial for giving a lady a kiss and classed as sexually assaulting a woman. The reason it could be in Rolando. Irritations is the estimated costs.Prosecuting/Defence lawyers plus all the hangers on. Anybody any idea of the estimates costs? Whatever the cost it is too muc.

Lesser charge now but jurors out for,the night.

what a waste of a talented  footballer as he has an estimated net worth of US$100,000
		
Click to expand...

The costs can be a little bogus, other than his defence barrister. The court, staff, prosecution etc would all be there whatever, on this case or another. The waste is his own legal fees, and of course how he has spent a good chunk of his life. 

Incidentally, if the kiss was as described then it doesn't sound very nice or acceptable.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 16, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Heâ€™s suggesting that because of the way both cases were handled, handled by the players, the Clubs, the fans and the FA, all had a role to play in what when on and what was to follow.
Everton fans were (and still in parts) one of the worst Clubs for racist abuse over the years, but the hypocrisy on Everton forums over the Bulgarian fans the other night was truly laughable.
It doesnâ€™t matter if we only hear about isolated incidents we still need to sort it out and those 2 isolated incidents he mentioned still had repercussions for years afterwards.
		
Click to expand...

No mate, I think you've interpreted it the wrong way. 

Here's the headline 

*How the Luis Suarez and John Terry affairs set the tone for a world where racism could thrive.*


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			No mate, I think you've interpreted it the wrong way.

Here's the headline

How the Luis Suarez and John Terry* affairs *set the tone for a world where racism could thrive.

Click to expand...

Plural mate, ie, everything involved with them and what happened, thatâ€™s why in the article he discussâ€™s how others reacted.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Plural mate, ie, everything involved with them and what happened, thatâ€™s why in the article he discussâ€™s how others reacted.

Click to expand...

What's the difference between the headline and that last paragraph where it's almost identical?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			What's the difference between the headline and that last paragraph where it's almost identical?
		
Click to expand...

Societyâ€™s ills often manifest themselves around football. They are symptoms rather than a cause. *Suarez and Terry did not* create the toxic mood but they helped set the tone for a decade that would get progressively worse. They, *and the people who backed them* to the hilt, should look back in shame. 

There you go Stu, last paragraph and putting responsibility on more than just the 2 players.

For clarification, I didnâ€™t say I agreed or disagreed with the article, just that I found it interesting, and I do think if the situations happened again today they would be handle differently.


----------



## Bazzatron (Oct 17, 2019)

All matches live on Boxing Day, across 4 different kick off times,  keeps the armchair fans happy. 

Our game against City moved to the 27th, which in turn will effect another 3 games. You love to see it.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			All matches live on Boxing Day, across 4 different kick off times,  keeps the armchair fans happy.

Our game against City moved to the 27th, which in turn will effect another 3 games. You love to see it.
		
Click to expand...

8pm kick off on Boxing day is an absolute piss take, regardless of what teams are playing.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Societyâ€™s ills often manifest themselves around football. They are symptoms rather than a cause. *Suarez and Terry did not* create the toxic mood but they helped set the tone for a decade that would get progressively worse. They, *and the people who backed them* to the hilt, should look back in shame.

There you go Stu, last paragraph and putting responsibility on more than just the 2 players.

For clarification, I didnâ€™t say I agreed or disagreed with the article, just that I found it interesting, and I do think if the situations happened again today they would be handle differently.
		
Click to expand...

Think we'll have to agree to disagree ðŸ‘


----------



## Bazzatron (Oct 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			8pm kick off on Boxing day is an absolute piss take, regardless of what teams are playing.
		
Click to expand...

The travelling fan is so insignificant to tv companies, they couldn't care less if you had to walk home.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 17, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Societyâ€™s ills often manifest themselves around football. They are symptoms rather than a cause. *Suarez and Terry did not* create the toxic mood but they helped set the tone for a decade that would get progressively worse. They, *and the people who backed them* to the hilt, should look back in shame.

There you go Stu, last paragraph and putting responsibility on more than just the 2 players.

For clarification, I didnâ€™t say I agreed or disagreed with the article, just that I found it interesting, and I do think if the situations happened again today they would be handle differently.
		
Click to expand...

Everyone knows that racism is all because of Brexit anyway.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			8pm kick off on Boxing day is an absolute piss take, regardless of what teams are playing.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, be far too hammered by that time to pay attention!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			8pm kick off on Boxing day is an absolute piss take, regardless of what teams are playing.
		
Click to expand...

The only way to deal with that is for no away fan to buy a ticket and go. Leave the whole away section empty, embarrass the PL and the broadcasters on tv. Sadly that wont happen, fans of all teams are largely useless at organised protests likes this, so the PL will continue to abuse the goodwill of fans.


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 17, 2019)

I remember when boxing day was as local a game as possible. Obviously there are logistical issues. But they could certainly do better than they have. 

That being said, if coverage is gonna be available for All games then maybe its time to scrap the whole 3pm game rule in regards to coverage being allowed. 

Give everyone the choice how they want to view the game. Means that there's no disruption to fixtures etc, and if clubs then need to lower ticket prices to fill the stands so be it. It's been a long time since ticket sales were really relevant to a clubs financial survival.


----------



## richart (Oct 17, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I remember when boxing day was as local a game as possible. Obviously there are logistical issues. But they could certainly do better than they have.
.
		
Click to expand...

No problems for Reading fans. Home to QPR on Boxing day, and away to Fulham New Years day. At least in the Championship you get games played at traditional times, unless you are Leeds when you are on the box nearly every game.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Everyone knows that racism is all because of Brexit anyway.
		
Click to expand...

Do us a favour and keep Brexit  off this thread or SR will be along.....


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The only way to deal with that is for no away fan to buy a ticket and go. Leave the whole away section empty, embarrass the PL and the broadcasters on tv. Sadly that wont happen, fans of all teams are largely useless at organised protests likes this, so the PL will continue to abuse the goodwill of fans.
		
Click to expand...

Leave the away end empty and what would that achieve? 

The only way to make a stand is to have a full home and away boycott and let the game be played with no fans atmosphere etc that might wake the PL up.

Or an even easier solution is when the PL sell the rights  they stipulate that certain days and times are protected.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I remember when boxing day was as local a game as possible. Obviously there are logistical issues. But they could certainly do better than they have.

That being said, *if coverage is gonna be available for All games then maybe its time to scrap the whole 3pm game rule in regards to coverage being allowed.*

Give everyone the choice how they want to view the game. Means that there's no disruption to fixtures etc, and if clubs then need to lower ticket prices to fill the stands so be it. It's been a long time since ticket sales were really relevant to a clubs financial survival.
		
Click to expand...

I reckon in 3 seasons time this will be the case in PL football.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



*Leave the away end empty and what would that achieve?*

The only way to make a stand is to have a full home and away boycott and let the game be played with no fans atmosphere etc that might wake the PL up.

Or an even easier solution is when the PL sell the rights  they stipulate that certain days and times are protected.
		
Click to expand...

It sends a statement to the broadcasters and PL. The league and broadcasters do not like empty space at grounds, it seems to be a weak spot for them both visually and in terms of atmosphere. Atmosphere is one of the things that sells the PL around the world and an odd atmosphere at prime time Boxing Day would make them sit up and take notice. If fans just keep turning up then things will carry on as they are now, perhaps get worse.

The majority of home fans have already paid for their seat via season tickets. They are not gonig to miss a match for something they have already paid for. The inconvenience for them is also reduced as their travel is minimal, on the whole.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It sends a statement to the broadcasters and PL. The league and broadcasters do not like empty space at grounds, it seems to be a weak spot for them both visually and in terms of atmosphere. Atmosphere is one of the things that sells the PL around the world and an odd atmosphere at prime time Boxing Day would make them sit up and take notice. If fans just keep turning up then things will carry on as they are now, perhaps get worse.

The majority of home fans have already paid for their seat via season tickets. They are not gonig to miss a match for something they have already paid for. The inconvenience for them is also reduced as their travel is minimal, on the whole.
		
Click to expand...

It's almost impossible to get a full boycott of an away end, though we had a good go at Hull a few seasons ago after they tried to charge us Â£50 after they'd charged Everton Â£26 only a few weeks before. 

I'd be happy to back a boycott but I think it's about time that every clubs supporters groups join in and maybe boycott 1 weekend of games to make a  point that match going fans are seriously pissed off with the utter contempt that fans are treated with.


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I reckon in 3 seasons time this will be the case in PL football.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s been a long time coming imo. 
I can still recall doing my business a levels based in the model almost 2- years ago!

It was the right call back then, but now it just doesnâ€™t make sense. They must realise enough people watch games whenever they want through one means or another. The only issue with it I see is that currently the finances are split somewhat fairly. If clubs get free reign to negotiate their own deals then the league will be dead.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Itâ€™s been a long time coming imo.
I can still recall doing my business a levels based in the model almost 2- years ago!

It was the right call back then, but now it just doesnâ€™t make sense. They must realise enough people watch games whenever they want through one means or another. The only issue with it I see is that currently the finances are split somewhat fairly. *If clubs get free reign to negotiate their own deals then the league will be dead*.
		
Click to expand...

That currently happens in Spain now, I dont think that league is dead.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			That currently happens in Spain now, I dont think that league is dead.
		
Click to expand...

Donâ€™t each club also negotiate their own Telly rights with the money being very biased towards the big two ? 

No issues with the Saturday 3pm games being shown but they would need to ensure it doesnâ€™t affect any club


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Donâ€™t each club also negotiate their own Telly rights with the money being very biased towards the big two ?

No issues with the Saturday 3pm games being shown but they would need to ensure it doesnâ€™t affect any club
		
Click to expand...

It could be a good thing for the match going fan, cheaper tickets etc. Let the Armchair telly clappers payðŸ‘


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 17, 2019)

richart said:



			No problems for Reading fans. Home to QPR on Boxing day, and away to Fulham New Years day. At least in the Championship you get games played at traditional times, unless you are Leeds when you are on the box nearly every game.

Click to expand...

Just a shame you won't have any points from those two games


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			That currently happens in Spain now, I dont think that league is dead.
		
Click to expand...

As a competition it is and has been for a while now. Granted every now and a again a team pops itâ€™s head up and challenges. Athletico currently, Valencia in the past, who subsequently almost went to the wall having spent too much to get there. 

If the teams sold their rights now. IMO UTD and Liverpool would make the most, by a distance. Then youâ€™d have Chelsea and City. Arsenal and Spurs would do ok. The rest would be on vastly inferior numbers which I reckon would mean Within a few years there would be no wolves or Leicester pushing for Europa and hoping for better.


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Donâ€™t each club also negotiate their own Telly rights with the money being very biased towards the big two ? 

No issues with the Saturday 3pm games being shown but they would need to ensure it doesnâ€™t affect any club
		
Click to expand...

Using saints as an example, of we sold out every home game at lets say 29000 seats for home allocation. Our average ticket price is Â£42. Thatâ€™s just over Â£23m. If we lost 20% either through sales or ticket price it really wouldnâ€™t make a great deal of difference. Saints got Â£79.4m for simply being in the league and another Â£12m for games shown on tv. If we show more games youâ€™d imagine that easily covers the 20% match day revenues.

Obviously if itâ€™s a different deal for different clubs then that could make a bigger difference. But currently that needs to go to the clubs to vote on and there are more clubs whoâ€™d want a joint deal than separate one.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			8pm kick off on Boxing day is an absolute piss take, regardless of what teams are playing.
		
Click to expand...

Everton vs burnley and man U vs newcastle that day.

Now if any games should be shown after a 9pm watershed.......


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 17, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Everton vs burnley and man U vs newcastle that day.

Now if any games should be shown after a 9pm watershed.......

Click to expand...

They are just odd choices, really odd. You know already they will not be great, end to end matches.


----------



## Dando (Oct 17, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Everton vs burnley and man U vs newcastle that day.

Now if any games should be shown after a 9pm watershed.......

Click to expand...

If they were films, theyâ€™d go straight to dvd and in the sale bin

Or maybe just straight in the bin


----------



## Bazzatron (Oct 17, 2019)

City at 19.45 on the 27th
Liverpool at 16.30 on the 29th

We'll need new hamstrings in the transfer window.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			City at 19.45 on the 27th
Liverpool at 16.30 on the 29th

We'll need new hamstrings in the transfer window.
		
Click to expand...

Tough set of fixtures that, we had something very similar last year. 

These Amazon live games are going to be carnage if their coverage of the us open tennis is anything to go by.


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 19, 2019)

What a goal by sigurison to put any chances of a cheeky point out the window 

Glad he scored because otherwise the game would be decided by a poor keeping moment 

That said we have been awful today, should have been 6 or 7


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			What a goal by sigurison to put any chances of a cheeky point out the window

Glad he scored because otherwise the game would be decided by a poor keeping moment

That said we have been awful today, should have been 6 or 7
		
Click to expand...

I stupidly backed West Ham, I thought you's wouldve had enough to beat Everton.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2019)

Looks like most of the talk in the games today will be about VAR once again 

Seems in the Spurs match the big screen said no goal yet ref gave it when it came of Aliâ€™s arm ?


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 19, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I stupidly backed West Ham, I thought you's wouldve had enough to beat Everton.
		
Click to expand...

So did I but we rested yarmelenko for first half and when he came on he created more in 10 mins than anyone else did 

They wanted it more and deserved it


----------



## Jacko_G (Oct 19, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looks like most of the talk in the games today will be about VAR once again

Seems in the Spurs match the big screen said no goal yet ref gave it when it came of Aliâ€™s arm ?
		
Click to expand...

Add in the goal that Burnley weren't given at Leicester. I had Leicester on my coupon (which came in for a change) so not complaining.

Very tough on Burnley.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2019)

According to soccer special the goals disallowed today by VAR were all correctly disallowed. That means it is doing its job, surely?


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 19, 2019)

Typical dodgy Spurs. Always cheating.


----------



## Norrin Radd (Oct 19, 2019)

Brighton again being beaten in time added ,twice in nine games, looking forward to our turn .


----------



## Slime (Oct 19, 2019)

The scum are everywhere, it would seem;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50111754

I know it's not the PL, but hey ........................


----------



## Piece (Oct 19, 2019)

Iâ€™m a big fan of VAR. Not so much today. Two games weâ€™ve been arguably done by VAR.


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 19, 2019)

Piece said:



			Iâ€™m a big fan of VAR. Not so much today. Two games weâ€™ve been arguably done by VAR. 

Click to expand...

You could say that however you could also say over the years been done by the officials there so it's the same thing just it's the correct call rather than a dodgy Pedro mendes vs roy Carroll situation 

Everton could have complaints today, ref blows up for a foul on a corner they scored from 

Noone saw a foul and var may have not agreed 

But ref blew up so off it chalks


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2019)

Zaha spends more time on the deck than Richarlison.


----------



## Fish (Oct 19, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			According to soccer special the goals disallowed today by VAR were all correctly disallowed. That means it is doing its job, surely?
		
Click to expand...

erm no. Watford should have had a clear pen imo, and Ali moves his arm up and the ball comes off the top of his arm for the equaliser. 

Theyâ€™re trying to say the wrong message was put up on the scoreboard, but everyone can see it hit Aliâ€™s arm, and the Sky Sports panel supersedes soccer special ðŸ˜


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 19, 2019)

Fish said:



			erm no. Watford should have had a clear pen imo, and Ali moves his arm up and the ball comes off the top of his arm for the equaliser. 

Theyâ€™re trying to say the wrong message was put up on the scoreboard, but everyone can see it hit Aliâ€™s arm, and the Sky Sports panel supersedes soccer special ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, I meant the sky panel. Why would anyone watch the BBC version ðŸ˜³?

I haven't seen the examples you give but presumably a ref back at HQ saw it and decided against it. Now he may have made 2 bad decisions, alongside the on field ref but at least he saw them in good view. Were there reasons given as to why the decisions stood?


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2019)

Fish said:



			erm no. Watford should have had a clear pen imo, and Ali moves his arm up and the ball comes off the top of his arm for the equaliser.

Theyâ€™re trying to say the wrong message was put up on the scoreboard, but everyone can see it hit Aliâ€™s arm, and the Sky Sports panel supersedes soccer special ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Was it similatlr to the one City had disallowed against spurs?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			According to soccer special the goals disallowed today by VAR were all correctly disallowed. That means it is doing its job, surely?
		
Click to expand...

nope - Watford should have had a clear penalty , the Spurs goal was handball and the Villa one shouldnâ€™t have been disallowed as well it appears


----------



## fundy (Oct 19, 2019)

City shouldve just had one too, VAR refusing to overturn a bad decision on the pitch

Imagine Zahas reaction if thats the other way round!!!!!


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 19, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Sorry, I meant the sky panel. Why would anyone watch the BBC version ðŸ˜³?
		
Click to expand...

To avoid idiots like Merson and Thompson would seem a good enough reason.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 19, 2019)

Where have people seen the Dele goal? I can't find a replay on Twitter - only the regular TV angle where you can't really see. I was at the game but they didn't replay it obviously because it was potentially controversial.

VAR is a total farce. I think it needs a year off so they can reassess and get it right.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 19, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Where have people seen the Dele goal? I can't find a replay on Twitter - only the regular TV angle where you can't really see. I was at the game but they didn't replay it obviously because it was potentially controversial.

VAR is a total farce. I think it needs a year off so they can reassess and get it right.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 19, 2019)

Cheers. Still looks inconclusive from that angle, could be shoulder, could be upper arm.

Vertonghen on Deulofeu looks a penalty. Got away with that one.


----------



## GG26 (Oct 19, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Add in the goal that Burnley weren't given at Leicester. I had Leicester on my coupon (which came in for a change) so not complaining.

Very tough on Burnley.
		
Click to expand...

Clearly not a goal.  From my view from 130 yards away it was a clear foul on Evans.


----------



## Jensen (Oct 19, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Cheers. Still looks inconclusive from that angle, could be shoulder, could be upper arm.

Vertonghen on Deulofeu looks a penalty. Got away with that one.
		
Click to expand...

The way things are going I wouldn't be confident of getting 3 points from any team in the Championship or division 1


----------



## chrisd (Oct 19, 2019)

fundy said:



			City shouldve just had one too, VAR refusing to overturn a bad decision on the pitch

Imagine Zahas reaction if thats the other way round!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

If it had been Zaha he wouldn't have already lost control of the ball ðŸ˜‰


----------



## BrianM (Oct 19, 2019)

Thank you Aston Villa, cheeky we Â£620 in the bank ðŸ˜€


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 19, 2019)

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/features/368796-watch-free-video-us-and-them-manchester-united

Bit long for neutrals possibly, but sums up the rivalry of the cities, clubs, scals and perry boys. More than just a game, but nice to see respect on both sides, sadly not enough of it on game day, from both sides.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2019)

Piece said:



			Iâ€™m a big fan of VAR. Not so much today. Two games weâ€™ve been arguably done by VAR. 

Click to expand...

How is that not a pen on Delefeuo itâ€™s so obvious.
Motd said not one penalty has been given by VAR .
If thatâ€™s not one no wonder.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 20, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/77feb3bd-5a80-4b23-a980-2cc8f3ab445a

One to make you smile ðŸ˜


----------



## adam6177 (Oct 20, 2019)

Just caught up on MOTD, seems VAR is pretty much useless unless you're offside.  Some absolute joke decisions.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/features/368796-watch-free-video-us-and-them-manchester-united

Bit long for neutrals possibly, but sums up the rivalry of the cities, clubs, scals and perry boys. More than just a game, but nice to see respect on both sides, sadly not enough of it on game day, from both sides.
		
Click to expand...

Tarquin from Tunbridge Wells or Dave from Bristol  wont understand.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 20, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Tarquin from Tunbridge Wells or Dave from Bristol  wont understand.
		
Click to expand...

Or Phillip from..... ðŸ˜†


----------



## anotherdouble (Oct 20, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			How is that not a pen on Delefeuo itâ€™s so obvious.
Motd said not one penalty has been given by VAR .
If thatâ€™s not one no wonder.
		
Click to expand...

That was always going to be the problem of possible mates looking at a job done by a mate. To me the people operating VAR should then not be on the pitch the following week and visa versa


----------



## fundy (Oct 20, 2019)

chrisd said:



			If it had been Zaha he wouldn't have already lost control of the ball ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

what like the one in the middle of the park 10 minutes later where he whined like a bitch to the ref for 2 minutes even having received the free kick?


----------



## chrisd (Oct 20, 2019)

fundy said:



			what like the one in the middle of the park 10 minutes later where he whined like a bitch to the ref for 2 minutes even having received the free kick?
		
Click to expand...

It was only 1min 45 seconds ðŸ˜


----------



## BrianM (Oct 20, 2019)

That Man Utd side looks terrible, funny feeling Liverpool will pump them ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£


----------



## Slime (Oct 20, 2019)

BrianM said:



*That Man Utd side looks terrible*, funny feeling Liverpool will pump them ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£
		
Click to expand...

There's a reason for that.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2019)

OGS isnt very good at mind games is he? 

DDG was always going to play ðŸ™„


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 20, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			OGS isnt very good at mind games is he?

DDG was always going to play ðŸ™„
		
Click to expand...

You could tell he is trying to be ORN the second - can see this being a very dour scoreless draw


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 20, 2019)

Full marks to Souness. Keane was getting aggravated about players from opposing teams hugging in the tunnel whilst they were waiting to go out. Souness asked his thoughts on swapping shirts at half time ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£


----------



## Jensen (Oct 20, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Full marks to Souness. Keane was getting aggravated about players from opposing teams hugging in the tunnel whilst they were waiting to go out. Souness asked his thoughts on swapping shirts at half time ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£
		
Click to expand...

The thing is Keane is quite right


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 20, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			OGS isnt very good at mind games is he?

DDG was always going to play ðŸ™„
		
Click to expand...

Like Salahs ankle from that ankle breaking tackle.
Give it a rest
See Phils already moaning
Whiners


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You could tell he is trying to be ORN the second - can see this being a very dour scoreless draw
		
Click to expand...

Donâ€™t you fancy Liverpool to score against a crap Utd team


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 20, 2019)

Jensen said:



			The thing is Keane is quite right
		
Click to expand...

I know, it was just funny watching his blood pressure rising. When Souness threw that in he was about to boil over but realised that he was playing with him and stopped himself. I wouldn't want to be in the vicinity of either of those two if one of their team mates got pally pally with an opposition player ðŸ˜±


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 20, 2019)

Haha knobs


----------



## Slime (Oct 20, 2019)

Wait for it, wait for it ...................


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 20, 2019)

Cheating Origi, justice was served with the goal standing.


----------



## IanM (Oct 20, 2019)

It hit the hand.  Law says no goal.

"Foul" before Man U goal open to interpretation.  Goal given.

Only in football will this be debated for days!


----------



## Piece (Oct 20, 2019)

Utd goal...VAR should have called the foul but after yesterday it wasn't going to happen. Just poor refereeing. 

Liv 'goal'. Hand ball is hand ball. Is that right Dele? ðŸ˜‚


----------



## anotherdouble (Oct 20, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Cheating Origi, justice was served with the goal standing.
		
Click to expand...

Do you only come out of your cave to talk crap about Arsenal and to antagonise Liverpool supporters. What a complete muppet


----------



## SteveW86 (Oct 20, 2019)

We will be on page 200 by the time the day is out


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 20, 2019)

anotherdouble said:



			Do you only come out of your cave to talk crap about Arsenal and to antagonise Liverpool supporters. What a complete muppet
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s not crap itâ€™s cheating and you canâ€™t even see it. 

Youâ€™re the muppet.


----------



## SteveW86 (Oct 20, 2019)

I canâ€™t wait for the first decision overturned by VAR, will need to be something along the lines of the ref not seeing the zidane headbutt


----------



## anotherdouble (Oct 20, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Itâ€™s not crap itâ€™s cheating and you canâ€™t even see it.

Youâ€™re the muppet.
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ How did he cheat then Kermit


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverpool not playing great being contained by UTD 

Mane was handball and was correct by the letter of the law , canâ€™t complain about that 

But the first goal - itâ€™s a foul , he kicked him 

But as we have seen this year they seem scared to overturn the refs decision so whatâ€™s the point in VAR for anything other than offsides and handballs - itâ€™s a complete joke - only the Prem League could get it horribly wrong with the use of VAR. Atkinson should go over and check a screen


----------



## Slime (Oct 20, 2019)

Slime said:



*Wait for it, wait for it* ...................
		
Click to expand...




sawtooth said:



			Cheating Origi, justice was served with the goal standing.
		
Click to expand...




Piece said:



			Utd goal...VAR should have called the foul but after yesterday it wasn't going to happen. Just poor refereeing.

Liv 'goal'. Hand ball is hand ball. Is that right Dele? ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...




anotherdouble said:



			Do you only come out of your cave to talk crap about Arsenal and to antagonise Liverpool supporters. What a complete muppet
		
Click to expand...




sawtooth said:



			Itâ€™s not crap itâ€™s cheating and you canâ€™t even see it.

Youâ€™re the muppet.
		
Click to expand...




SteveW86 said:



			I canâ€™t wait for the first decision overturned by VAR, will need to be something along the lines of the ref not seeing the zidane headbutt
		
Click to expand...




anotherdouble said:



			ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ How did he cheat then Kermit
		
Click to expand...


.......................... *and here it is, well, just the start of it.*
No comments from the L'pool boys yet, except LP, but they'll probably be a bit more considered.
LP was half correct, but no, not a foul.
It's a contact sport and there was nowhere near enough contact to bring him down like a sniper's victim.

Oh, great goal by Rashford.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 20, 2019)

anotherdouble said:



			ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ How did he cheat then Kermit
		
Click to expand...

Football is a contact sport just because the defender flicked his toe onto the shin pad of Origi that does not warrant a foul, and certainly the histrionics that followed.

Can you explain why it was that Origi rolled over and held the back of his right ankle and we could all see that the left shin was brushed?

He was losing the control, he felt the contact and then tried to con the ref by going down.

Itâ€™s cheating pure and simple.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2019)

We all know VAR is crap but how can the ref not see him kick him on the knee.?
Thatâ€™s posh poor reffing .
Even worse from Var as they had the best angle. 

Second one was right it hit his hand.


----------



## Jensen (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Liverpool not playing great being contained by UTD

Mane was handball and was correct by the letter of the law , canâ€™t complain about that

But the first goal - itâ€™s a foul , he kicked him

But as we have seen this year they seem scared to overturn the refs decision so whatâ€™s the point in VAR for anything other than offsides and handballs - itâ€™s a complete joke - only the Prem League could get it horribly wrong with the use of VAR. Atkinson should go over and check a screen
		
Click to expand...

Tell me Phil, how are you following this game


----------



## PieMan (Oct 20, 2019)

IMHO the only decision VAR has got wrong this weekend is the Spurs one.

Working perfectly well today............

ðŸŽ£ðŸŽ£ ðŸ¤­ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 20, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Tell me Phil, how are you following this game
		
Click to expand...

By carrier pigeon

A late one has arrived to let me know that Spurs lost the CL final ðŸ™„


----------



## Jensen (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			By carrier pigeon

A late one has arrived to let me know that Spurs lost the CL final ðŸ™„
		
Click to expand...

Not Twitter then.....ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Dando (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			By carrier pigeon

A late one has arrived to let me know that Spurs lost the CL final ðŸ™„
		
Click to expand...

That made me chuckle


----------



## Jensen (Oct 20, 2019)

Dando said:



			That made me chuckle
		
Click to expand...

That must be that quick scouse humour, oh wait a moment ðŸ˜„


----------



## Paperboy (Oct 20, 2019)

Jensen said:



			That must be that quick scouse humour, oh wait a moment ðŸ˜„
		
Click to expand...

Think your find Dando isn't a scouser. But hey ho


----------



## fundy (Oct 20, 2019)

Paperboy said:



			Think your find Dando isn't a scouser. But hey ho
		
Click to expand...

not sure he meant Dando


----------



## Jensen (Oct 20, 2019)

Paperboy said:



			Think your find Dando isn't a scouser. But hey ho
		
Click to expand...

Take a look at who made him chuckle, that may help you.
Please try to keep up.....ðŸ™„


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 20, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Not Twitter then.....ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Are you trying to be relevant ?


----------



## Jensen (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are you trying to be relevant ?
		
Click to expand...

Even during an important game like this, you can't stay off the forum ðŸ‘


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 20, 2019)

I don't think it was a foul on Origi. Very minimal contact then he hovers his left foot in the air to make himself go down. Not enough contact for a foul, he barely grazed him. Not really knocking him for trying it, but you run the risk of it not being given, and it's backfired on him today.


----------



## Slime (Oct 20, 2019)

A much better performance from United, but I think they deserved all three points.
A really good game.
Andreas Pereira had his best game in a United shirt.


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 20, 2019)

Never thought the nation would be thanking man United 

Thanks from 95% of the population


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 20, 2019)

Winning run over
Think most Utd supporters would have taken a draw before the game but overall were the better team.

OGS who shouldnâ€™t have even been given the job outsmarts JK a world class manager.

Utd players who wouldnâ€™t get into the Liverpool team outplay them.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2019)

So you catch someone from behind just under the knee , donâ€™t get the ball and itâ€™s not a foul regardless of how he goes down.
We deserved a draw. Fair result imo.

M Atkinson gave us sweet FA there Howard would be proud.
The ref blew up when James went down ( no foul) 
Then left him on the ground when he had obviously been hurt( no foul ) so Liverpool player had to put the ball out of play.
As bad a reffing display I have seen for a while.


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 20, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think it was a foul on Origi. Very minimal contact then he hovers his left foot in the air to make himself go down. Not enough contact for a foul, he barely grazed him. Not really knocking him for trying it, but you run the risk of it not being given, and it's backfired on him today.
		
Click to expand...

Very 'Kane' ish response.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 20, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			So you catch someone from behind just under the knee , donâ€™t get the ball and itâ€™s not a foul regardless of how he goes down.
We deserved a draw. Fair result imo.

M Atkinson gave us sweet FA there Howard would be proud.
The ref blew up when James went down ( no foul)
Then left him on the ground when he had obviously been hurt( no foul ) so Liverpool player had to put the ball out of play.
As bad a reffing display I have seen for a while.
		
Click to expand...

Football is a contact sport, a foul is when there is strong enough contact to impede their progress illegally. In this case there wasn't enough contact for that.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 20, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Even during an important game like this, you can't stay off the forum ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Do you have anything to add the thread beyond cheap childish digs at me ?


Anyway on to the game 

Man Utd did well to nulify Liverpool , looking to go on the break but dodnt really create enough to win it , same with us , a draw the fair result and you will take it when playing poorly 

Still unbeaten and sat top of the table 

Atkinson is a joke - always been a home referee




Orikoru said:



			Football is a contact sport, a foul is when there is strong enough contact to impede their progress illegally. In this case there wasn't enough contact for that.
		
Click to expand...

mmm interesting you dont have the same opinion when its Kane when he goes down

Its a foul on Origi - he spent the whole match giving them


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Football is a contact sport, a foul is when there is strong enough contact to impede their progress illegally. In this case there wasn't enough contact for that.
		
Click to expand...

You play donâ€™t you .
If someone kicks you just below the knee it F@@@@@g hurts .

He kicked him from behind ,never got the ball itâ€™s a foul!


----------



## adam6177 (Oct 20, 2019)

It was team selection that was key today, it's been many many years since Man utd had someone as good as Howard Webb to call on, but today they had a worthy replacement.  Mom performance.

ðŸŽ£


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			It was team selection that was key today, it's been many many years since Man utd had someone as good as Howard Webb to call on, but today they had a worthy replacement.  Mom performance.

ðŸŽ£
		
Click to expand...

Nice iMoji. But technically correct.


----------



## Slime (Oct 20, 2019)

Scousers crack me up, it's their sense of humour.
As soon as they don't win it's because the ref's a homer.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 20, 2019)

We need to up our game to get the through the low blocks from teams down the bottom of the table, who just try to nullify our game.

Even with 68% of possession away from home, we have to find a way if they'll only come over the half way line with long balls.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			mmm interesting you dont have the same opinion when its Kane when he goes down

Its a foul on Origi - he spent the whole match giving them
		
Click to expand...

Except I do - I said exactly the same in the Arsenal game when Kane went down. Contact not enough for a foul. How awkward for you.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 20, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			You play donâ€™t you .
If someone kicks you just below the knee it F@@@@@g hurts .

He kicked him from behind ,never got the ball itâ€™s a foul!
		
Click to expand...

Yeah it would if they actually kicked me. Not if they barely clip me, and I tend not to collapse in a heap.


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			We need to up our game to get the through the low blocks from teams down the bottom of the table, who just try to nullify our game.

Even with 68% of possession away from home, we have to find a way if they'll only come over the half way line with long balls.
		
Click to expand...

I think Lallana deserves a shot in these games, or Shaqiri. Too many of the same midfielders imo. One who will run a player, seems to be if not then you revert to, ball to wing back cross, clear, repeat.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2019)

Slime said:



			Scousers crack me up, it's their sense of humour.
As soon as they don't win it's because the ref's a homer. 

Click to expand...

It must have been a shock losing Howard for big games but step forward Martin .

Seriously we were awful today for 70 mins .
Utd played well first half but apart from picking the ball out of the net after the goals  I canâ€™t remember either keeper making a save.
But second half are you happy watching them defend on the 18 yard line and playing counter attack footy at Old Trafford.
It was a good point but donâ€™t you expect more from Man Utd.

Atkinson consistency gave fouls to Utd and dismissed the same for Liverpool.
Through my glasses any way.
Thought we were poor but still deserved a draw no more no less.

Just a q though.
Do you think itâ€™s a foul if someone kicks you in the calf ,from behind, dosnt get the ball?


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 20, 2019)

Slime said:



			Scousers crack me up, it's their sense of humour.
As soon as they don't win it's because the ref's a homer. 

Click to expand...

Arrogant in victory and everyone else's fault when it doesn't end in victory 

Come on city close that gap again please for the love of Christ


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah it would if they actually kicked me. Not if they barely clip me, and I tend not to collapse in a heap.
		
Click to expand...

You can tell how hard he kicked him on your telly ?
He was on the turn when he caught him.
We will just have to disagree.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 20, 2019)

Slime said:



			Scousers crack me up, it's their sense of humour.
As soon as they don't win it's because the ref's a homer. 

Click to expand...

Not all Liverpool fans are Scousers, not all Scousers are Liverpool fans.
All teams have decent supporters and all teams have idiot supporters.
Letâ€™s not tar everyone with the brush eh!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I think Lallana deserves a shot in these games, or Shaqiri. Too many of the same midfielders imo. One who will run a player, seems to be if not then you revert to, ball to wing back cross, clear, repeat.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree we still need a Midfield General like KDB but not easy to find one.
Main prob for me especially first half we had nobody in the box to cross to.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 20, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I think Lallana deserves a shot in these games, or Shaqiri. Too many of the same midfielders imo. One who will run a player, seems to be if not then you revert to, ball to wing back cross, clear, repeat.
		
Click to expand...

I know where your coming from, as think 1 of the 3 "workers" should have a bit more about them going forward, which is why getting a Coutinho would have been great / If ox comes back to the player he was becoming before his injury/ Keita becoming the player we thought he was.

However, we have just won 17 league games on the run, sometimes when you try and improve one area you lose a bit elsewhere. Think Asprilla at Newcastle when they were playing great.

Only one team was a cup finalist today.


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			We need to up our game to get the through the low blocks from teams down the bottom of the table, who just try to nullify our game.

Even with 68% of possession away from home, we have to find a way if they'll only come over the half way line with long balls.
		
Click to expand...

Stats eh Pete what a load of bull.
I suspect you expected an easy victory against a crap Utd team.
Your still in the driving seat letâ€™s hope you donâ€™t blow it again.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I know where your coming from, as think 1 of the 3 "workers" should have a bit more about the going forward, which is why getting a Coutinho would have been great / If ox comes back to the player he was becoming before his injury/ Keita becoming the player we thought he was.

However, we have just won 17 games on the run, sometimes when you try and improve one area you lose a bit elsewhere. Think Asprilla at Newcastle when they were playing great.

Only one team was a cup finalist today.
		
Click to expand...

Do you think Klopp should have changed it a bit earlier today.
The three in the middle just didnâ€™t have control of the game.
Henderson looked out of place ,and we played much better with Ox and Llalana on.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I know where your coming from, as think 1 of the 3 "workers" should have a bit more about the going forward, which is why getting a Coutinho would have been great / If ox comes back to the player he was becoming before his injury/ Keita becoming the player we thought he was.

However, we have just won 17 games on the run, sometimes when you try and improve one area you lose a bit elsewhere. Think Asprilla at Newcastle when they were playing great.

Only one team was a cup finalist today.
		
Click to expand...

Normally Henderson has gone a bit higher over the last 5 months but today he seemed to drop deeper and smother Fabinho a bit

Lallana , Ox or Keita in there would have put us on the front foot a bit more , whenever Gini went forward he found space , Bobby looked very jaded.

Hard game today especially when playing so poorly against a poor team who raised their level a lot today especially Rashford who looked 10 times the player he has over the last 6 months. It was a good draw for UTD but think it will paper over cracks of their issues


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Normally Henderson has gone a bit higher over the last 5 months but today he seemed to drop deeper and smother Fabinho a bit

Lallana , Ox or Keita in there would have put us on the front foot a bit more , whenever Gini went forward he found space , Bobby looked very jaded.

Hard game today especially when playing so poorly against a poor team who raised their level a lot today especially Rashford who looked 10 times the player he has over the last 6 months. It was a good draw for UTD but think it will paper over cracks of their issues
		
Click to expand...

Agree here but think Firmino was in a very crowded area the way they set up .
Spaces down the wing were there but Henderson got in the way of AA imo.

We were not great but a point at United is ok.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 20, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			Stats eh Pete what a load of bull.
I suspect you expected an easy victory against a crap Utd team.
Your still in the driving seat letâ€™s hope you donâ€™t blow it again.
		
Click to expand...

Nope I didnt.

Ive been going to OT since 1985. Ive seen shocking refereeing decisions, our teams not turn up, United deservedly beat us and sometimes just find a way to beat us. Its always United's biggest game of the season, no matter where both sides are in the league, and sometimes we, the ref, the manager or the players dont cope with it.

Every time your players hit the deck you got a foul, Fabinho got booked for the same as 2 United's players who didnt in quick succession (Young's was nearly an ankle breaker as well). And thats before the Origi foul, you didnt even need VAR to see that was a foul. The Mane decision was right.

I'm never confident going there.

So whats the load of bull then? Maybe give your own original opinion on something instead of just picking an easy target to get your Like % stats up, eh????


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 20, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Do you think Klopp should have changed it a bit earlier today.
The three in the middle just didnâ€™t have control of the game.
Henderson looked out of place ,and we played much better with Ox and Llalana on.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, Henderson should have come off as early into the 2nd half as possible.


----------



## Slime (Oct 20, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			It must have been a shock losing Howard for big games but step forward Martin .

*Seriously we were awful today for 70 mins .*
Utd played well first half but apart from picking the ball out of the net after the goals  I canâ€™t remember either keeper making a save.
*But second half are you happy watching them defend on the 18 yard line and playing counter attack footy at Old Trafford.*
It was a good point but donâ€™t you expect more from Man Utd.

Atkinson consistency gave fouls to Utd and dismissed the same for Liverpool.
Through my glasses any way.
Thought we were poor but still deserved a draw no more no less.

Just a q though.
*Do you think itâ€™s a foul if someone kicks you in the calf ,from behind, dosnt get the ball?*

Click to expand...

But it was still the ref's fault that you didn't win! 

Yes, given how poor the team is when playing a team who are miles clear at the top of the table and on such a good run. Especially when trying to hold on to a slender lead.

Yes, but not when the touch is as slight as the one you're referring to. It's a contact sport. He was not brought down by the contact from Lindelof.


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Nope I didnt.

Ive been going to OT since 1985. Ive seen shocking refereeing decisions, our teams not turn up, United deservedly beat us and sometimes just find a way to beat us. Its always United's biggest game of the season, no matter where both sides are in the league, and sometimes we, the ref, the manager or the players dont cope with it.

Every time your players hit the deck you got a foul, Fabinho got booked for the same as 2 United's players who didnt in quick succession (Young's was nearly an ankle breaker as well). And thats before the Origi foul, you didnt even need VAR to see that was a foul. The Mane decision was right.

I'm never confident going there.

So whats the load of bull then? Maybe give your own original opinion on something instead of picking an easy target????
		
Click to expand...

Thereâ€™s no doubt we raised our game today and yours dropped considering the way both teams have started the season.
Wether it was a foul or not( and I thought it was ) you play to the whistle.
Long way to go but today was a step in the right direction for us,we now need to push on and produce good performances like this more regular.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 20, 2019)

I'll tell you what, loads of opinions on contact, fouls and diving from people who probably have never seen a "PREMIERSHIP" game live or not since Neil Ruddock was in his "pomp".


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 20, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1185970906960715784


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 20, 2019)

Slime said:



			But it was still the ref's fault that you didn't win! 

Yes, given how poor the team is when playing a team who are miles clear at the top of the table and on such a good run. Especially when trying to hold on to a slender lead.

Yes, but not when the touch is as slight as the one you're referring to. It's a contact sport. He was not brought down by the contact from Lindelof. 

Click to expand...

Refs always favour the bigger team..how are people still surprised


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 20, 2019)

Slime said:



			But it was still the ref's fault that you didn't win! 

Yes, given how poor the team is when playing a team who are miles clear at the top of the table and on such a good run. Especially when trying to hold on to a slender lead.

Yes, but not when the touch is as slight as the one you're referring to. It's a contact sport. He was not brought down by the contact from Lindelof. 

Click to expand...

Where did anyone say it was the â€œrefs fault we didnâ€™t winâ€ ? The ref was shocking today but we didnâ€™t win because we didnâ€™t play well in the final third - a draw was the right result 

It was a foul on Origi - and it should have been given , it seems VAR is scared to overturn the ref


----------



## Slime (Oct 20, 2019)

I'll tell you what, loads of opinions on contact, fouls and diving from people who probably have never played regular football over a period of many, many years.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 20, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			Thereâ€™s no doubt we raised our game today and yours dropped considering the way both teams have started the season.
Wether it was a foul or not( and I thought it was ) you play to the whistle.
Long way to go but today was a step in the right direction for us,we now need to push on and produce good performances like this more regular.
		
Click to expand...

Yes you do play to the whistle but VAR was brought in so that S***house refereeing decisions by "home refs" at the like of Anfield and Old Trafford can be overruled. Sadly not today though.


----------



## Slime (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Where did anyone say it was the â€œrefs fault we didnâ€™t winâ€ ?* The ref was shocking today but we didnâ€™t win because we didnâ€™t play well in the final third - a draw was the right result

It was a foul on Origi - and it should have been given , it seems VAR is scared to overturn the ref
		
Click to expand...

You don't have to, I can taste the bitterness.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 20, 2019)

Slime said:



			I'll tell you what, loads of opinions on contact, fouls and diving from people who probably have never played regular football over a period of many, many years.
		
Click to expand...

At your age, behave.

I'm still playing, have done for years and 15 years in Sunday league added to the 40 years of watching it LIVE. You should try it sometime, premiership players are like athletes nowadays. Some even wear multi-couloured boots as well now. Who'd a thunked it?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 20, 2019)

Slime said:



			You don't have to, I can taste the bitterness.  

Click to expand...

Well glad you enjoyed your season highlight - must be really frustrating to play the best you have all season and still not win even with the helping hand , enjoy the battle for Europa League spots ðŸ‘


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			Like Salahs ankle from that ankle breaking tackle.
Give it a rest
See Phils already moaning
Whiners
		
Click to expand...

WTF are you going on about??


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2019)

Orikoru said:



*I don't think it was a foul on Origi.* Very minimal contact then he hovers his left foot in the air to make himself go down. Not enough contact for a foul, he barely grazed him. Not really knocking him for trying it, but you run the risk of it not being given, and it's backfired on him today.
		
Click to expand...

Honestly?? You thought the Albrighton on Mane challenge was a foul 2 weeks ago, that challenge today was a carbon copy of that one you said was "stonewaller" iirc, really what is the difference?

Sorry I found your post and for reference this is what you posted ...

_I still think that was a penalty. Albrighton is on the wrong side, stupidly sticks a leg in and boots the back of his leg. Irrespective of what Mane does after that, it's a foul in the box._


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I know where your coming from, as think 1 of the 3 "workers" should have a bit more about them going forward, which is why getting a Coutinho would have been great / If ox comes back to the player he was becoming before his injury/ Keita becoming the player we thought he was.

However, we have just won 17 league games on the run, sometimes when you try and improve one area you lose a bit elsewhere. Think Asprilla at Newcastle when they were playing great.

Only one team was a cup finalist today.
		
Click to expand...

Oh I agree it's harsh to really pick fault after one performance. But I think it's been said before that a little creativity wouldn't go a miss. You were also missing Salah which is obvious a big hit. 

I only referenced lallana, ox maybe too as they are the I between. Will get stuck in, but a bit more flair. Not sure coutinho would work as an option as he's pure attack.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 20, 2019)

Maybe, just maybe, OGS got the tactics right for the opposition. Yes the referee was very poor but Liverpool didn't do enough for me to find a way to change their own approach. The fact that it was getting close to Fergie time shows how much of a struggle it was. At the end of the day, it was a point and the unbeaten streak continues so it wasn't all bad


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2019)

Wow, some of the replies on here are embarrassing and that's without reading LP's posts ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

My thoughts.... 

We never did enough to win the game, very poor in possession and our passing stunk.  Instead of controlling the ball and getting hold of the game we surrendered and played into Yerniteds hands by lumping the ball. 

That said, for all the ball Yernited had they never done much with it. In fact both Keepers couldve put their kit back in the unused kit bag. 

Not a bad result, though if I was a Yernited hanger on I wouldnt be too happy seeing that performance today compared to the inept lacklustre performances in previous weeks.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 20, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Oh I agree it's harsh to really pick fault after one performance. But I think it's been said before that a little creativity wouldn't go a miss. You were also missing Salah which is obvious a big hit. 

I only referenced lallana, ox maybe too as they are the I between. Will get stuck in, but a bit more flair. Not sure coutinho would work as an option as he's pure attack.
		
Click to expand...

You just want ex-saints players in there dont you?


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, Henderson should have come off as early into the 2nd half as possible.
		
Click to expand...

Early in the 2nd half?? He shouldn't have came out at half time.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 20, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Oh I agree it's harsh to really pick fault after one performance. But I think it's been said before that a little creativity wouldn't go a miss. You were also missing Salah which is obvious a big hit. 

I only referenced lallana, ox maybe too as they are the I between. Will get stuck in, but a bit more flair. Not sure coutinho would work as an option as he's pure attack.
		
Click to expand...

Before he went he played as part of the middle 3 rather than the offensive 3 (make your own jokes up there) and he was sensational. Scoring, setting up goals and even a hat trick. Yes we were slightly more vulnerable, but we played some amazing football as he was someone always happy to receive the ball, keep it and create, which is why I would have him back.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 20, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Early in the 2nd half?? He shouldn't have came out at half time.
		
Click to expand...

I just meant to shake the Ox's hand.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Not all Liverpool fans are Scousers, not all Scousers are Liverpool fans.
All teams have decent supporters and all teams have knobhead supporters.
Letâ€™s not tar everyone with the brush eh!
		
Click to expand...

Won a game have yers?? ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Before he went he played as part of the middle 3 rather than the offensive 3 (make your own jokes up there) and he was sensational. Scoring, setting up goals and even a hat trick. Yes we were slightly more vulnerable, but we played some amazing football as he was someone always happy to receive the ball, keep it and create, which is why I would have him back.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah but you were shocking defensively then imo, Now that could be because of the lack of support from him, but I accept it may be down to the gung ho approach, or the fact your keepers or defenders were naff. I think heâ€™d add to the squad, even if it simply means your main 3 were a 4 so you could rotate a little. 

Obviously against lesser opponents such as today you could afford to play him in the midfield 3....


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 20, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Yeah but you were shocking defensively then imo, Now that could be because of the lack of support from him, but I accept it may be down to the gung ho approach, or the fact your keepers or defenders were naff. I think heâ€™d add to the squad, even if it simply means your main 3 were a 4 so you could rotate a little. 

Obviously against lesser opponents such as today you could afford to play him in the midfield 3....
		
Click to expand...

Yep, but also before VVD and Alison which was the real game-change for us. I'd take the risk.


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			You just want ex-saints players in there dont you? 

Click to expand...

Well if you win a title we might still be owed bonuses ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, but also before VVD and Alison which was the real game-change for us. I'd take the risk.
		
Click to expand...

I think Klopp will certainly look for someone creative in the summer - players like Havertz etc but I donâ€™t think he would ever welcome Coutinho back with the way he acted towards the end.

Bobby has filled that gap to play between the lines a lot more over the last 12 months and has been superb but when he is off his game the linking suffers - Lallana coming into it could be key. We still had chances today just didnâ€™t take them


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, but also before VVD and Alison which was the real game-change for us. I'd take the risk.
		
Click to expand...

That was kinda my point. The poor defence mixed with his tendencies was a bad mix. Now he may be perfect. Or someone like him, maybe sneak in for Erikson?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 20, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			That was kinda my point. The poor defence mixed with his tendencies was a bad mix. Now he may be perfect. Or someone like him, maybe sneak in for Erikson?
		
Click to expand...

Damaged goods, now.


----------



## Slime (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			At your age, behave.

I'm still playing, have done for years and 15 years in Sunday league added to the 40 years of watching it LIVE. You should try it sometime, *premiership players are like athletes nowadays.* Some even wear multi-couloured boots as well now. Who'd a thunked it?
		
Click to expand...

Are you saying that I'm not? How very dare you.
I gave up a few months ago, a sad day indeed after 50+ years playing, but my boots are still black, (albeit with three whits stripes).


----------



## Slime (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well *glad you enjoyed your season highlight *- must be really frustrating to play the best you have all season and still not win even with the helping hand , *enjoy the battle for Europa League spots ðŸ‘*

Click to expand...

Thanks Phil, and I will.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 20, 2019)

Slime said:



			Are you saying that I'm not? How very dare you.
I gave up a few months ago, a sad day indeed after 50+ years playing, but my boots are still black, (albeit with three whits stripes).
		
Click to expand...

That walking footy doesnt count.


----------



## Slime (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



*I think Klopp will certainly look for someone creative in the summer - *players like Havertz etc but I donâ€™t think he would ever welcome Coutinho back with the way he acted towards the end.

Bobby has filled that gap to play between the lines a lot more over the last 12 months and has been superb but when he is off his game the linking suffers - Lallana coming into it could be key. We still had chances today just didnâ€™t take them
		
Click to expand...

You can have Matic, I saw him make a forward pass once!


----------



## Slime (Oct 20, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			That walking footy doesnt count.
		
Click to expand...

*OY!*


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			Say a word about what in your company?
For a start I donâ€™t believe Iâ€™ve ever called you anything.
*I donâ€™t talk football with you because itâ€™s a debate I couldnâ€™t win.*
You say itâ€™s not that type of forum yet you clearly havenâ€™t read the rules.
No swearing as itâ€™s a ban
		
Click to expand...

Whats that supposed to mean? We've spoken before about football before and have agreed on things and disagreed too, it's not about winning. You're making me out to be someone who I'm not.  I'd like to think fair but passionate about my club and city. I'm pretty sure others on here supporters  of different clubs would back me up.

You obviously haven't read the rules re trolling have you?

You've got involved with something that's  got nothing to do with you.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 20, 2019)

Can someone let DaveMc know MOTD2 is on at 10:30 on BBC1.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Can someone let DaveMc know MOTD2 is on at 10:30 on BBC1. 

Click to expand...

Everton win, Pauldj finds his login and starts cracking funnies ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 20, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Everton win, Pauldj finds his login and starts cracking funnies ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

The only posts Dave has made is to ask or remind people when MOTD2 is on.
Plenty of posts about our National Team,  certainly not going to discuss the PL with anyone on here, too many knobheads.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			The only posts Dave has made is to ask or remind people when MOTD2 is on.
Plenty of posts about our National Team,  certainly not going to discuss the PL with anyone on here, *too many knobheads*.

Click to expand...

You're a good judge for a blooooo ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 20, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Honestly?? You thought the Albrighton on Mane challenge was a foul 2 weeks ago, that challenge today was a carbon copy of that one you said was "stonewaller" iirc, really what is the difference?

Sorry I found your post and for reference this is what you posted ...

_I still think that was a penalty. Albrighton is on the wrong side, stupidly sticks a leg in and boots the back of his leg. Irrespective of what Mane does after that, it's a foul in the box._

Click to expand...

The difference should be obvious, but there was a lot more contact in Albrighton's challenge than the one today. He collided fully with Mane's leg whereas Lindelof barely grazed Origi. No bias obviously since they're both Liverpool players, just my opinion on each incident.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2019)

Slime said:



			But it was still the ref's fault that you didn't win! 

Yes, given how poor the team is when playing a team who are miles clear at the top of the table and on such a good run. Especially when trying to hold on to a slender lead.

Yes, but not when the touch is as slight as the one you're referring to. It's a contact sport. He was not brought down by the contact from Lindelof. 

Click to expand...

So itâ€™s a foul.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2019)

Orikoru said:



*The difference should be obvious*, but there was a lot more contact in Albrighton's challenge than the one today. He collided fully with Mane's leg whereas Lindelof barely grazed Origi. No bias obviously since they're both Liverpool players, just my opinion on each incident.
		
Click to expand...

If it was really that obvious I wouldnt ask. 

I dont know how you measure the impact of the contact but to my eye  both legs were hit by both players trying to make contact with the ball but failed.  

Both almost identical to one another for me, ones in the box the others not.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 20, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			If it was really that obvious I wouldnt ask.

I dont know how you measure the impact of the contact but to my eye  both legs were hit by both players trying to make contact with the ball but failed. 

Both almost identical to one another for me, ones in the box the others not.
		
Click to expand...

It honestly looked like he barely touched him today that's all. Maybe I didn't see the right angle or something.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			It honestly looked like he barely touched him today that's all. Maybe I didn't see the right angle or something.
		
Click to expand...

That's fair enough but I've seen all the angles sky showed and that was more of a foul than the mane pen was. His left leg that was kicked was off the floor and heading away from the player, where as Manes leg was planted iirc. 

Anyway it's your opinion, not right nor wrongðŸ‘


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			That was kinda my point. The poor defence mixed with his tendencies was a bad mix. Now he may be perfect. Or someone like him, maybe sneak in for Erikson?
		
Click to expand...

He would be good for us but would spurs sell him to us.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			He would be good for us but would spurs sell him to us.
		
Click to expand...

I'm.not too sure his work rate would fit but I doubt Spurs would have a choice given his contract.


----------



## fundy (Oct 20, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			That's fair enough but I've seen all the angles sky showed and that was more of a foul than the mane pen was. His left leg that was kicked was off the floor and heading away from the player, where as Manes leg was planted iirc. 

Anyway it's your opinion, not right nor wrongðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...


neither are fouls, HTH


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			The difference should be obvious, but there was a lot more contact in Albrighton's challenge than the one today. He collided fully with Mane's leg whereas Lindelof barely grazed Origi. No bias obviously since they're both Liverpool players, just my opinion on each incident.
		
Click to expand...

He kicked him in the calf as he was turning to run.
The angle from behind shows it quite clearly.
Itâ€™s the angle Lindelof has â€œfrom behindâ€
Itâ€™s the angle VAR must have seen.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2019)

fundy said:



			neither are fouls, HTH 

Click to expand...

I agree ðŸ‘ðŸ‘. But because those type of fouls are given every week and have been since the early 00's they are now fouls by the new interpretation of rules.HTH.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm.not too sure his work rate would fit but I doubt Spurs would have a choice given his contract.
		
Click to expand...

He might just up the work rate if Klopp explains what he wants from him.
He is a player that can play a ball on a sixpence just what we need imo of course.


----------



## Rlburnside (Oct 20, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm.not too sure his work rate would fit but I doubt Spurs would have a choice given his contract.
		
Click to expand...

 It might surprise some but Erickson regularly runs more than most other players in the side, his work rate is never an a issue when he's on his game.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 20, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			Not sure Levy would ever sell to you,
It might surprise some but Erickson regularly runs more than most other players in the side,* his work rate is never an a issue when he's on his game*.
		
Click to expand...

Levy might not get the choice, that confirms any thoughts. Excellent footballer though.


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 20, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			It might surprise some but Erickson regularly runs more than most other players in the side, his work rate is never an a issue when he's on his game.
		
Click to expand...

I remember seeing a similar stat about Ozil, I wouldnâ€™t consider Erikson lasy at all, but I guess it depends where the runs he makes are. If he isnâ€™t tracking back the. It could hurt Liverpool (if he were to go there).


----------



## Rlburnside (Oct 20, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Levy might not get the choice, that confirms any thoughts. Excellent footballer though.
		
Click to expand...

He realised that  then edited


----------



## Rlburnside (Oct 20, 2019)

Just seen that foul on Origl on motd ridiculous how that was reviewed and not changed,


----------



## Rlburnside (Oct 20, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Levy might not get the choice, that confirms any thoughts. Excellent footballer though.
		
Click to expand...

What I ment by on his game is not to judge him since he's wanted away but to judge him over the last 3/4 seasons,he's certainly puts the effort in and has been key player for us.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			Just seen that foul on Original on motd ridiculous how that was reviewed and not changed,
		
Click to expand...

Agree given the amount of contact on J Evans in the Burnley equaliser but VAR ruled that a foul.
They need to up their game at Shockley Park as thatâ€™s not good enough.

Nice to see OGS thanking the ref for his contribution to the game. On motd.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 21, 2019)

I find it surprising for people that watch so many live games that they still canâ€™t tell when a player is play acting or not.

Twice in the past few weeks Liverpool players have gone down for the merest contact and when they go to hold their injured leg they chose the wrong one. Cheating of the highest order.

Origi effectively lost the ball with a dodgy first touch. Then make no mistake the defender makes slight contact and Origi takes the opportunity to jump to the ground. Then rolls over and holds the ankle of the opposite leg. The ref and probably the VAR people saw the same thing that I did, itâ€™s just a pity that the players arenâ€™t punished for it.

Itâ€™s the scourge of the game and itâ€™s making football less and less enjoyable to watch.


----------



## davemc1 (Oct 21, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Can someone let DaveMc know MOTD2 is on at 10:30 on BBC1. 

Click to expand...

You obvs donâ€™t know the rules of the game!

Had it been slime (even me ðŸ˜†) or Huds or the wrightys or Dave q (however he denies it) I cud except.

Then prob tell them to swivel tbf ðŸ˜†ðŸ˜†


----------



## MegaSteve (Oct 21, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'll tell you what, loads of opinions on contact, fouls and diving from people who probably have never seen a "PREMIERSHIP" game live or not since Neil Ruddock was in his "pomp".
		
Click to expand...

There is a lot to be admired about how footie has progressed since the arrival of The Prem... But the over playing (often theatrical) of any contact ain't, for me, one of the better aspects... Sooner seen it gone...


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 21, 2019)

Why did Origi clutch his right leg when the contact was with his left?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 21, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			I find it surprising for people that watch so many live games that they still canâ€™t tell when a player is play acting or not.

Twice in the past few weeks Liverpool players have gone down for the merest contact and when they go to hold their injured leg they chose the wrong one. Cheating of the highest order.

Origi effectively lost the ball with a dodgy first touch. Then make no mistake the defender makes slight contact and Origi takes the opportunity to jump to the ground. Then rolls over and holds the ankle of the opposite leg. The ref and probably the VAR people saw the same thing that I did, itâ€™s just a pity that the players arenâ€™t punished for it.

Itâ€™s the scourge of the game and itâ€™s making football less and less enjoyable to watch.
		
Click to expand...

So you can kick someone in the calf from behind ,not getting the ball and itâ€™s not a foul?

How much contact was there in the Burnley equaliser ?
Did J Evans dive.
It was clearly accidental but still a foul.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 21, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			Why did Origi clutch his right leg when the contact was with his left?
		
Click to expand...

Contact so itâ€™s a foul.
He kicked him from behind in the calf.
Not all contact is a foul but I would say if you kick someone in the leg from behind not getting the ball itâ€™s a foul.

You would have to ask Origi that .


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 21, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Contact so itâ€™s a foul.
He kicked him from behind in the calf.
Not all contact is a foul but I would say if you kick someone in the leg from behind not getting the ball itâ€™s a foul.

You would have to ask Origi that .
		
Click to expand...

Don't know if there was sufficient contact for Origi's reaction although I accept such contact is sometimes penalised. 

The exaggeration may subconsciously influence the referee's decision.


----------



## 4LEX (Oct 21, 2019)

Funny game and I have to give Ole and United credit - it was a masterclass tactically. Very Mourinho like though but given the starting line up the performance for 60 minutes was out of this world. The flip side is how can they do that against Liverpool but roll over against Newcastle or Southampton?

Liverpool were frankly woeful and again despite being so impressive generally in the last few years, this is the second time they've gone to Manchester with a big gap and looked lost. Against City last season they had the chance to kill the title race and got outworked and outclassed tactically. The same happened yesterday and that is why City will win the title. Klopp just looks like he can't make the final step. Plus looking at the back up options there really isn't anything, the attack is paper thin and compare it to City's and the difference is frightening.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 21, 2019)

4LEX said:



			Funny game and I have to give Ole and United credit - it was a masterclass tactically. Very Mourinho like though but given the starting line up the performance for 60 minutes was out of this world. The flip side is how can they do that against Liverpool but roll over against Newcastle or Southampton?
		
Click to expand...

Against Liverpool they could stifle the game, they were happy to sit back and pack the midfield. Against Newcastle etc they are expected to attack and those teams can do to them what they did to Liverpool. Playing against poorer tems exposes their own deficiences. Well done to Utd, they stopped the Liverpool bandwagon but the tough thing now is for them to repeat that next game up. I think Liverpool let the occasion and the whole Utd thing get to them. It is the worst they have played in a very long time.


----------



## garyinderry (Oct 21, 2019)

Was VAR really brought in to look at niggley wee tackles in the middle of the park?


----------



## TheDiablo (Oct 21, 2019)

Liverpool have a serious lack of depth everywhere except 2nd CB. Keep everyone fit and they'll win the league, but lose any of the front 3, VVD or Robbo for any length of time, let alone at the same time and Citys ability to rotate key positions throughout the year may prove fruitful. 

To highlight it, pick a 'second 11' from the sides and its only Gomez that gets in for me, yet 'first 11' can be argued till the cows come home - mine would be a 6/5 split one way or the other. 

TAA once again showing he's clueless postionally at right back, yet incredibly talented on the ball - touch, vision and technique all superb. He's a centre midfielder!! Liverpool aren't even particularly good at CM so it baffles me he doesn't play there


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 21, 2019)

4LEX said:



			Funny game and I have to give Ole and United credit - it was a masterclass tactically. Very Mourinho like though but given the starting line up the performance for 60 minutes was out of this world. The flip side is how can they do that against Liverpool but roll over against Newcastle or Southampton?

Liverpool were frankly woeful and again despite being so impressive generally in the last few years, this is the second time they've gone to Manchester with a big gap and looked lost. *Against City last season they had the chance to kill the title race and got outworked and outclassed tactically. *The same happened yesterday and that is why City will win the title. Klopp just looks like he can't make the final step. Plus looking at the back up options there really isn't anything, the attack is paper thin and compare it to City's and the difference is frightening.
		
Click to expand...

I dont know what game you watched but that certainly wasnt the case last season at all. It was a very tight game where either team could've won without any complaints. Liverpool were definitely not outclassed tactically  nor outworked.

Yesterday a tactical masterclass?? ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ They played well but  never really created anything other than the goal.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 21, 2019)

garyinderry said:



			Was VAR really brought in to look at niggley wee tackles in the middle of the park?
		
Click to expand...

No it wasnt, but the refs boss has set the rules where the build up to every goal is checked and given recent goals being disallowed (Burnley's equaliser saturday) surely that had to be disallowed too? 

More inconsistencies. Take a loss and throw VAR in the bin ASAP.


----------



## 4LEX (Oct 21, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I dont know what game you watched but that certainly wasnt the case last season at all. It was a very tight game where either team could've won without any complaints. Liverpool were definitely not outclassed tactically  nor outworked.

Yesterday a tactical masterclass?? ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ They played well but  never really created anything other than the goal.
		
Click to expand...

Don't get so defensive, I've got nothing but praise for Liverpool usually. The City game was tight in a sense but Liverpool looked like they had no game plan. They didn't go for City who were in a bad place, nor did they shut up and play for a draw. It was a big chance wasted and cost you the title. City had a plan and wanted it more. 

Yesterday was a masterclass from Ole. Considering he's a third rate manager with a poor side to not only be the better team but actually looked the better coached side was surprising.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 21, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			Just seen that foul on Origl on motd ridiculous how that was reviewed and not changed,
		
Click to expand...

As a Spurs fan who has seen countless decisions go against the away side, I think you'll know why.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 21, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			I find it surprising for people that watch so many live games that they still canâ€™t tell when a player is play acting or not.

Twice in the past few weeks Liverpool players have gone down for the merest contact and when they go to hold their injured leg they chose the wrong one. Cheating of the highest order.

Origi effectively lost the ball with a dodgy first touch. Then make no mistake the defender makes slight contact and Origi takes the opportunity to jump to the ground. Then rolls over and holds the ankle of the opposite leg. The ref and probably the VAR people saw the same thing that I did, itâ€™s just a pity that the players arenâ€™t punished for it.

Itâ€™s the scourge of the game and itâ€™s making football less and less enjoyable to watch.
		
Click to expand...

You used to be able to argue points with you objectively, sadly that changed 2 years ago.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 21, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			There is a lot to be admired about how footie has progressed since the arrival of The Prem... But the over playing (often theatrical) of any contact ain't, for me, one of the better aspects... Sooner seen it gone...
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree with you, but its not going to anytime soon. All clubs have their players who do it and not just that type of cheating either.

Some just seem to see ours though. Some of them are still fouls though - yes players have made the most of it, but it still doesnt mean that Mane's and Origi's werent fouls. refs need to up their games as its the chicken and the egg, if you dont go down you dont get anything. If Johnny Evans hadnt gone down on Saturday, would that goal not have been disallowed - no chance.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 21, 2019)

garyinderry said:



			Was VAR really brought in to look at niggley wee tackles in the middle of the park?
		
Click to expand...

If it directly leads to a goal, yes.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 21, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			Liverpool have a serious lack of depth everywhere except 2nd CB. Keep everyone fit and they'll win the league, but lose any of the front 3, VVD or Robbo for any length of time, let alone at the same time and Citys ability to rotate key positions throughout the year may prove fruitful.

To highlight it, pick a 'second 11' from the sides and its only Gomez that gets in for me, yet 'first 11' can be argued till the cows come home - mine would be a 6/5 split one way or the other.

TAA once again showing he's clueless postionally at right back, yet incredibly talented on the ball - touch, vision and technique all superb. He's a centre midfielder!! Liverpool aren't even particularly good at CM so it baffles me he doesn't play there
		
Click to expand...

yes your right, dont know why people keep asking why our bigger squad isnt as good as City's as the answer is obvious - about 3-400 million pounds.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 21, 2019)

4LEX said:



			Don't get so defensive, I've got nothing but praise for Liverpool usually. The City game was tight in a sense but Liverpool looked like they had no game plan. They didn't go for City who were in a bad place, nor did they shut up and play for a draw. It was a big chance wasted and cost you the title. City had a plan and wanted it more.

Yesterday was a masterclass from Ole. Considering he's a third rate manager with a poor side to not only be the better team but actually looked the better coached side was surprising.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not being defensive, just pointing out that your assessment of us being outclassed tactically and outworked against city last season was actually wrong.


----------



## Piece (Oct 21, 2019)

4LEX said:



			Funny game and I have to give Ole and United credit - it was a *masterclass tactically*. Very Mourinho like though but given the starting line up the performance for 60 minutes was *out of this world.* The flip side is how can they do that against Liverpool but roll over against Newcastle or Southampton?

Liverpool were *frankly woeful* and again despite being so impressive generally in the last few years, this is the second time they've gone to Manchester with a big gap and *looked lost*. Against City last season they had the chance to kill the title race and got outworked and outclassed tactically. The same happened yesterday and that is why City will win the title. *Klopp just looks like he can't make the final step*. Plus looking at the back up options there really isn't anything, the attack is paper thin and compare it to City's and the difference is frightening.
		
Click to expand...

. A bit OTT, me thinks! 

Man Utd played OK, sitting back and catching Liverpool on the break. Nothing more, nothing less.

Liverpool had won their last 17 (say that again, 17) so I think having a game where you are not 100% is more than acceptable. For all Man Utd's 'tactical brilliance' and 'out of this world' performance, they hardly worked the keeper, and in the end, only one team was going to win it. And it wasn't Man U.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 21, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			Liverpool have a serious lack of depth everywhere except 2nd CB. Keep everyone fit and they'll win the league, but lose any of the front 3, VVD or Robbo for any length of time, let alone at the same time and Citys ability to rotate key positions throughout the year may prove fruitful.

To highlight it, pick a 'second 11' from the sides and its only Gomez that gets in for me, yet 'first 11' can be argued till the cows come home - mine would be a 6/5 split one way or the other.

TAA once again showing he's clueless postionally at right back, yet incredibly talented on the ball - touch, vision and technique all superb. He's a centre midfielder!! Liverpool aren't even particularly good at CM so it baffles me he doesn't play there
		
Click to expand...

when you compare our squad to the most expensive squad ever assembled then itâ€™s always going to look inferior but for a such a poor depth squad how have we managed to win 125 points from the last 144 on offer whilst suffering injuries to most of the squad bar one player. And how the hell have we manage to do so well when we arenâ€™t particularly good in CM. 

Or maybe we are a lot better than people want to give credit for - is our CM as good as Citys , Nope but itâ€™s better than the rest in the Prem and has done a very good job against all the others in Europe and there is a lot more returning depth both in CM and up front l


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 21, 2019)

I think yesterday it boiled down to OGS getting them to play defensively, even more so after Rashford scored, and for the players to realise to the fans, a heavy defeat to a massive rival like Liverpool simply isn't acceptable especially on the back of a crap season to date. Whether, and there are players coming back from long injuries, it is a catalyst I am not sure and at the moment I am not sure OGS can really get them into a European place this season. If he isn't given the season to develop and bring on the side who then comes in and how much of a poisoned chalice in managing United becoming? I'd also say yesterday, Liverpool were the poorest they've been all season. 

I happen to agree with the comments regarding strength of depth and it'll be interesting for the neutral at least, especially if Liverpool are competing for the PL and in the later stages of the CL how injuries begin to have an effect. Liverpool were definitely crying out for a creative player but who would that be at a price and wage structure Liverpool would be prepared to agree to? A few injuries to the defensive line may be more telling but some seasons a team can really struggle and others get away without too many major injuries to key players.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 21, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			Don't know if there was sufficient contact for Origi's reaction although I accept such contact is sometimes penalised.

The exaggeration may subconsciously influence the referee's decision.
		
Click to expand...

I have watched it again and think the ref hasnâ€™t seen it properly.
A united player gets in his way ,he then gets the ball.
Thatâ€™s fine if so but canâ€™t understand the VAR ref not giving the foul.
Thereâ€™s clear contact thatâ€™s all he needs to tell the ref , he then can go and look at the monitor.
But they wonâ€™t do that , itâ€™s what it was brought in for.

But I would say itâ€™s a poor  challenge for the ball from the defender ,heâ€™s facing away from goal but turns him, he kicks the back of his calf from behind .
In black and white thatâ€™s a foul.


----------



## TheDiablo (Oct 21, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			yes your right, dont know why people keep asking why our bigger squad isnt as good as City's as the answer is obvious - about 3-400 million pounds.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah obviously and I've said that myself before. 

But surely you had Â£100m to strenghen the depth this summer and for whatever reason chose not to spend a dime even though 30 or 40 Mill came in through the door. Klopp seems strangely above criticism with Reds in this regard. 

A creative midfielder you've already spoken of and a true white paint on the boots winger as a plan b wouldve been sensible imo. Outside of Lallana who is suspect fitness wise it's all a bit samey.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 21, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			Yeah obviously and I've said that myself before.

But surely you had Â£100m to strenghen the depth this summer and for whatever reason chose not to spend a dime even though 30 or 40 Mill came in through the door. Klopp seems strangely above criticism with Reds in this regard.

A creative midfielder you've already spoken of and a true white paint on the boots winger as a plan b wouldve been sensible imo. Outside of Lallana who is suspect fitness wise it's all a bit samey.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, and for the first time in decades we've only needed 1-2 players and not 4+.

I wanted another player who would be able to replace mane/Sadio/Bobby and without too much of a quality decrease - thinking Zaha or similar.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 21, 2019)

garyinderry said:



			Was VAR really brought in to look at niggley wee tackles in the middle of the park?
		
Click to expand...

Not really ,but itâ€™s been used to disallow goals all season.
I think what most people want is consistency.
I would ditch it, but was in favour at first.
Itâ€™s the idiots using it not the tech.


----------



## TheDiablo (Oct 21, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			when you compare our squad to the most expensive squad ever assembled then itâ€™s always going to look inferior but for a such a poor depth squad how have we managed to win 125 points from the last 144 on offer whilst suffering injuries to most of the squad bar one player. And how the hell have we manage to do so well when we arenâ€™t particularly good in CM. 

Or maybe we are a lot better than people want to give credit for - is our CM as good as Citys , Nope but itâ€™s better than the rest in the Prem and has done a very good job against all the others in Europe and there is a lot more returning depth both in CM and up front l
		
Click to expand...

You've not missed key players at the same time, or barring Alison for any length of time

You've 5 truly world class players and you get 4 or 5 of them out every single week. That's genuinely impressive fitness wise. The rest of the prem outside the top 2 has about 6 truly world class between them all, at a stretch. So you should be dominating by miles between you both. You're miles and miles better than the rest. 

Your midfield in comparison to others you compete with is bang average, in my opinion. Outside Fabinho you need to overhaul it in the next couple of years. The same can be said of City's defence. Not bad, just average in comparison to similar teams.


----------



## TheDiablo (Oct 21, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, and for the first time in decades we've only needed 1-2 players and not 4+.

I wanted another player who would be able to replace mane/Sadio/Bobby and without too much of a quality decrease - thinking Zaha or similar.
		
Click to expand...

The exciting thing for you guys is that it's been 4+ just to try and get competitive. Now it's 1-2 just to add depth to a world class team

Maybe it will come in hindsight if you run out of steam, but genuinely surprised there was none to minimal criticism following no investment.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 21, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			You've not missed key players at the same time, or barring Alison for any length of time

You've 5 truly world class players and you get 4 or 5 of them out every single week. That's genuinely impressive fitness wise. The rest of the prem outside the top 2 has about 6 truly world class between them all, at a stretch. So you should be dominating by miles between you both. You're miles and miles better than the rest.

Your midfield in comparison to others you compete with is bang average, in my opinion. Outside Fabinho you need to overhaul it in the next couple of years. The same can be said of City's defence. Not bad, just average in comparison to similar teams.
		
Click to expand...

I agree with the last bit.
Kieta has been very disappointing ,injuries no real form.
I think we need a CM who can control the pace of the game and put a ball on a sixpence.(KDB)
But they are very hard to come by.
I also think we need a Proper goal poacher back up.
Again hard to come by.
But Klopp wonâ€™t spend unless itâ€™s the right man.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 21, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, and for the first time in decades we've only needed 1-2 players and not 4+.

I wanted another player who would be able to replace mane/Sadio/Bobby and without too much of a quality decrease - thinking Zaha or similar.
		
Click to expand...

Sawtooth would have a field day if Saha had a reds shirt on.


----------



## Dan2501 (Oct 21, 2019)

Liverpool have actually been very lucky with injuries. In the league:

Alisson has been injured this season, but played all season last season
TAA's yet to miss a game this season, missed 5 last
Robertson yet to miss a game this season, missed 1 last season
VVD's yet to miss a game this season, didn't miss any last season
Fabinho's yet to miss a game this season, missed 1 last season after finally breaking into the squad in GW9.
Henderson has been available all season this season, missed 2 with injury last
Salah has missed 1 game this season, didn't miss any last season
Mane's yet to miss a game this season, only missed 2 last season
Firmino's played every game this season, missed 4 last season

That's the main core of the squad suffering very few injuries, no long term other than Alisson this season. Given the style of football played, it's pretty remarkable they've managed to keep the core of the squad fit.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 21, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			So you can kick someone in the calf from behind ,not getting the ball and itâ€™s not a foul?

How much contact was there in the Burnley equaliser ?
Did J Evans dive.
It was clearly accidental but still a foul.
		
Click to expand...

Just imagine that every single bit of contact in football results in a free kick. There would be 500+ free kicks a game.

Not all touches are fouls and not all fouls are yellow cards.

Iâ€™ve said it a few times on here, when a player is genuinely fouled or impeded there is no reason for the player to add his own artistry. 

The action of the foul itself (if genuine) ought to be enough to show the ref what is going on. 

If I went up to Origi and kicked him as hard as I could I promise you his reaction would look different and would be 100% genuine. No need to fakeðŸ˜Š The chances are is that he would still be nursing the leg I kicked and not the opposite one. ðŸ‘

In Origiâ€™s case the touch was so insignificant that he had to exaggerate contact which of course is deceitful and IMO cheating.

Look, we all see things differently and you are a red so I get the bias but I donâ€™t have to agree with it. And you donâ€™t have to agree with me but letâ€™s remain civil about things.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 21, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			You used to be able to argue points with you objectively, sadly that changed 2 years ago.
		
Click to expand...

Mate if you think Origi was honest yesterday you are either so blinded by love of Liverpool or you have never kicked a ball in your life. 

He lost control of the ball felt a touch and tried to steal a free kick. Not for me.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 21, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Liverpool have actually been very lucky with injuries. In the league:

Alisson has been injured this season, but played all season last season
TAA's yet to miss a game this season, missed 5 last
Robertson yet to miss a game this season, missed 1 last season
VVD's yet to miss a game this season, didn't miss any last season
Fabinho's yet to miss a game this season, missed 1 last season after finally breaking into the squad in GW9.
Henderson has been available all season this season, missed 2 with injury last
Salah has missed 1 game this season, didn't miss any last season
Mane's yet to miss a game this season, only missed 2 last season
Firmino's played every game this season, missed 4 last season

That's the main core of the squad suffering very few injuries, no long term other than Alisson this season. Given the style of football played, it's pretty remarkable they've managed to keep the core of the squad fit.
		
Click to expand...

On paper it doesnâ€™t look too bad but then I remember seeing the team play a 16year old lad at right , Henderson at right back , Fabinho at CB , facing Barcelona without Salah and Firmino , Gomez missing most of the season 

VVD and Alisson were the only ever presents last season - lucky with injuries ? We had to adapt as most did when they lose players - players played through knocks and niggles through the season. 

Itâ€™s almost if at times people are loathed to give credit when itâ€™s due - always needs to be a but or a lucky or any other caveat


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 21, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			On paper it doesnâ€™t look too bad but then I remember seeing the team play a 16year old lad at right , Henderson at right back , Fabinho at CB , facing Barcelona without Salah and Firmino , Gomez missing most of the season

VVD and Alisson were the only ever presents last season - lucky with injuries ? We had to adapt as most did when they lose players - players played through knocks and niggles through the season.

Itâ€™s almost if at times people are loathed to give credit when itâ€™s due - always needs to be a but or a lucky or any other caveat
		
Click to expand...

Any team needs luck to be successful, irrespective of skill winning teams have moments of fortune. For you guys to win the league you need the majority of your key players to stay fit. You had that last year. You'll need it again this year. It's not a slight on Liverpool to say they'll need luck with injuries. They simply can't absorb them like city. 

As to Gomez, he is fit now and not selected. He's in danger of becoming a Wilshire (one great game against barca and he's a world).


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 21, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Any team needs luck to be successful, irrespective of skill winning teams have moments of fortune. For you guys to win the league you need the majority of your key players to stay fit. You had that last year. You'll need it again this year. It's not a slight on Liverpool to say they'll need luck with injuries. They simply can't absorb them like city.

As to Gomez, he is fit now and not selected. He's in danger of becoming a Wilshire (one great game against barca and he's a world).
		
Click to expand...

â€œBecoming a Wilshireâ€ ðŸ˜‚

He isnâ€™t playing because the guy in front of him has the spot - so itâ€™s up to Gomez to be Paitent just like Matip was and when he gets the chance takes it, the guy is only 22 - has his whole career ahead of him


I also see they are announce the Ballon D'Or shortlist

*List of nominees revealed so far*

Virgil van Dijk (Liverpool)

Bernardo Silva (Manchester City)

Son Heung-min (Tottenham)

Robert Lewandowski (Bayern Munich)

Roberto Firmino (Liverpool)

Alisson (Liverpool)

Matthijs de Ligt (Juventus)

Karim Benzema (Real Madrid)

Georginio Wijnaldum (Liverpool)

Sergio Aguero (Manchester City)

Frenkie de Jong (Barcelona)

Hugo Lloris (Tottenham) 

Dusan Tadic (Ajax)

Cristiano Ronaldo (Juventus)

Kylian Mbappe (Paris St-Germain)

Trent Alexander-Arnold (Liverpool)ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿

Donny van de Beek (Ajax)

Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang (Arsenal)

Marc-Andre ter Stegen (Barcelona)

Sadio Mane (Liverpool)


More will be announced

I dont know why they annouce such a big list


----------



## fundy (Oct 21, 2019)

Id love to know whats happening at training at Arsenal for Emery to pick this side at Sheff Utd tonight, so far from what he could be picking its ridiculous


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 21, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			â€œBecoming a Wilshireâ€ ðŸ˜‚

He isnâ€™t playing because the guy in front of him has the spot - so itâ€™s up to Gomez to be Paitent just like Matip was and when he gets the chance takes it, the guy is only 22 - has his whole career ahead of him
		
Click to expand...

Gomez has started games this year though and got dropped did he not. Its not like he had an injury and matip took his chance. 

Atm he is getting built up without even playing. You've heralded him as better than maguire after 2 seasons where his appearances have been limited (somewhat due to injury) For me that is comparable to the hyperbole that's surrounded many young English players. Wilshere included.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 21, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Just imagine that every single bit of contact in football results in a free kick. There would be 500+ free kicks a game.

Not all touches are fouls and not all fouls are yellow cards.

Iâ€™ve said it a few times on here, when a player is genuinely fouled or impeded there is no reason for the player to add his own artistry.

The action of the foul itself (if genuine) ought to be enough to show the ref what is going on.

If I went up to Origi and kicked him as hard as I could I promise you his reaction would look different and would be 100% genuine. No need to fakeðŸ˜Š The chances are is that he would still be nursing the leg I kicked and not the opposite one. ðŸ‘

In Origiâ€™s case the touch was so insignificant that he had to exaggerate contact which of course is deceitful and IMO cheating.

Look, we all see things differently and you are a red so I get the bias but I donâ€™t have to agree with it. And you donâ€™t have to agree with me but letâ€™s remain civil about things.
		
Click to expand...

I have never been uncivil.

But will bow to your superior knowledge of how footballers con referees .
After all you have been watching players do this a lot more than me being an Arsenal fan!


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 21, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I have never been uncivil.

But will bow to your superior knowledge of how footballers con referees .
After all you have been watching players do this a lot more than me being an Arsenal fan!
		
Click to expand...

Just explain one thing, why did Origi clinch his right ankle when he was quite clearly touched on the left lower leg?

Was that pain transfer or a con trick? You tell me.


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 21, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Just explain one thing, why did Origi clinch his right ankle when he was quite clearly touched on the left lower leg?

Was that pain transfer or a con trick? You tell me.
		
Click to expand...

He hold the wrong foot because after all his theatrics heâ€™s forgotten where he was kicked. That being said, the antics after a foul have zero relevance to whether itâ€™s a foul or not. Something youâ€™ve demonstrated on numerous occasions that you fail to accept.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 21, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50130001


 - its hard to point fingers at other countries when we first need to sort it out in our own grounds and all walks of life


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 21, 2019)

A strange thing https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50112266


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 21, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			He hold the wrong foot because after all his theatrics heâ€™s forgotten where he was kicked. That being said, the antics after a foul have zero relevance to whether itâ€™s a foul or not. Something youâ€™ve demonstrated on numerous occasions that you fail to accept.
		
Click to expand...

Another one that thinks this is basketball , football is a contact sport.

Not all contact is a foul, something you fail to recognise on numerous occasions.ðŸ‘

Play acting can fool the ref of course itâ€™s relevant.


----------



## fundy (Oct 21, 2019)

no VAR tonight then????


----------



## paddyc (Oct 21, 2019)

Wheres all my fellow gooners tonight? Keeping quiet not confident about getting a result,surely not


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 21, 2019)

fundy said:



			no VAR tonight then????
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s embarrassing- but Mike Dean is looking right at it - clear pull on the shirt


----------



## fundy (Oct 21, 2019)

paddyc said:



			Wheres all my fellow gooners tonight? Keeping quiet not confident about getting a result,surely not
		
Click to expand...

im here Pat, hope youre well mate 

really fancied us tonight till I saw the abortion of an XI the clown has picked!!!


----------



## paddyc (Oct 21, 2019)

Ahh good big man your here. VAR yes wake up Dean ffs


----------



## fundy (Oct 21, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Itâ€™s embarrassing- but Mike Dean is looking right at it - clear pull on the shirt
		
Click to expand...


like were getting anything from him lol


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 21, 2019)

fundy said:



			no VAR tonight then????
		
Click to expand...

Seemed very clear. Surely that is a very obvious reason why it was brought in and why VAR isn't working


----------



## paddyc (Oct 21, 2019)

Who did u want in the team mate or rather not in the team?  Apart from Xhaka of course.


----------



## fundy (Oct 21, 2019)

clearly our defenders been practising playing out from the back all week again sigh


----------



## fundy (Oct 21, 2019)

paddyc said:



			Who did u want in the team mate or rather not in the team?  Apart from Xhaka of course.
		
Click to expand...

id have bellerin tierney and holding in the back 4 now theyre supposed to be fully fit, torreira and ceballos be the first 2 names on the sheet in midfield prob with Willock id have Ozil on the bench and Xhaka be training with the kids


----------



## paddyc (Oct 21, 2019)

Pepe s not a goalscorer is heðŸ˜¡


----------



## fundy (Oct 21, 2019)

really got to score there Pepe


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 21, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Another one that thinks this is basketball , football is a contact sport.

Not all contact is a foul, something you fail to recognise on numerous occasions.ðŸ‘

Play acting can fool the ref of course itâ€™s relevant.
		
Click to expand...

Contact with the player and not the hall when attempting to win a ball is a foul. No matter how heavy the contact is. The payers reaction has zero relevance to that fact. Granted it make trick a ref if itâ€™s an actual dive. But if the player is exaggerating to get the refs attention, it makes the foul no less of a foul. 

But this is like pulling teeth, so Iâ€™ll bow out. I look forward to the grief you give arsenal players in the future for their antics.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 21, 2019)

Simply scrolling down here https://www.skysports.com/football  and a host of investigations going on at clubs in various leagues regarding racisim. Sadly this is now fast becoming an epidemic and needs sorting now. Sadly I assume the FA will sit on their hands and leave it to over stretched police forces to manage the problem and only punish clubs after the event. Before anyone asks NO I don't have a solution and clearly it is a society issue as well as a football one but the FA really need to be seen leading this as head of the game in England


----------



## fundy (Oct 21, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Contact with the player and not the hall when attempting to win a ball is a foul. No matter how heavy the contact is. The payers reaction has zero relevance to that fact. Granted it make trick a ref if itâ€™s an actual dive. But if the player is exaggerating to get the refs attention, it makes the foul no less of a foul. 

But this is like pulling teeth, so Iâ€™ll bow out. I look forward to the grief you give arsenal players in the future for their antics.
		
Click to expand...


can you show me where in the rule book it states that first sentence please?


----------



## fundy (Oct 21, 2019)

None of the midfield seem to have a clear role or know whats expected of them, doozis running round like a headless chicken, willock been completely anonymous and xhaka pops up to commit his lazy foul every now and again

edit: surprise surprise we still cant defend

We want Emery out!!!!!!!


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 21, 2019)

fundy said:



			can you show me where in the rule book it states that first sentence please?
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™d love to, but it was meant in the context of my POV re this incident. As in, he didnâ€™t make contact with the ball and took then player. Itâ€™s a foul. (Didnâ€™t mean to say IS, which would make it look like I was suggesting itâ€™s the rule) IMO. I didnâ€™t feel the need to word it as such due to it being a response. 

For the record Iâ€™m not saying all incidents of contact are a foul.


----------



## Fish (Oct 21, 2019)

fundy said:



			really fancied us tonight
		
Click to expand...

I didnâ€™t ðŸ˜œ


----------



## fundy (Oct 21, 2019)

Fish said:



			I didnâ€™t ðŸ˜œ
		
Click to expand...

quote the whole comment ffs fish


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 21, 2019)

So I turn on, Xhaka commits a foul, gives away a dangerous free kick, plays their goal svorer onside, and is having a general Xhaka game.


----------



## fundy (Oct 21, 2019)

get up Saka, deserved booking you cheat


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 21, 2019)

I love it that Freddie Ljungberg is learning Spanish so he can communicate with Emery. Is this not the wrong way round?


----------



## Slime (Oct 21, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50130001


 - its hard to point fingers at other countries when we first need to sort it out in our own grounds and all walks of life
		
Click to expand...

But it's good to know it's being acted upon.

*"We are aware of an incident at yesterday's game where an individual in the home section has allegedly engaged in racial abuse.

"The individual was identified and ejected from the stadium."

Liverpool welcomed the "swiftness with which Manchester United have launched an investigation" and said the club would "support the strongest possible action being taken against anyone found to be responsible".*


----------



## Fish (Oct 21, 2019)

fundy said:



			really fancied us tonight till I saw the abortion of an XI the clown has picked!!!
		
Click to expand...

ok, I didnâ€™t, whoever you played ðŸ˜œ


----------



## fundy (Oct 21, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			I love it that Freddie Ljungberg is learning Spanish so he can communicate with Emery. Is this not the wrong way round?
		
Click to expand...


unless Freddies leaving with Emery at xmas then definitely the wrong way


----------



## adam6177 (Oct 21, 2019)

fundy said:



			get up Saka, deserved booking you cheat
		
Click to expand...

Exactly, Mike Dean did well there... embarrassing attempt at cheating from the lad.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 21, 2019)

The first time the ref uses his loaf itâ€™s against us , but a very good decision.

A dive all day long.


----------



## TheDiablo (Oct 21, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Contact with the player and not the hall when attempting to win a ball is a foul. No matter how heavy the contact is. The payers reaction has zero relevance to that fact. Granted it make trick a ref if itâ€™s an actual dive. But if the player is exaggerating to get the refs attention, it makes the foul no less of a foul. 

But this is like pulling teeth, so Iâ€™ll bow out. I look forward to the grief you give arsenal players in the future for their antics.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, its not that black and white though. Not even close. 

Contact has to impede the opposing player, which is down to interpretation by the official. 

Not all contact impedes, a slight nudge, tap on the foot, hand on the shoulder is all contact that doesn't necessarily impede, hence why this is a contact sport. If the opposing player then simulates and/or exaggerates the effect of contact in attempt to con the ref then they shouldn't expect the free kick.

Rightly or wrongly, Atkinson deemed Origi wasn't impeded to the extent of a foul being committed. Either way, it wasnt obvious enough to be overturned. Personally I agree, although 90%+ of the time they are given


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 21, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			The exciting thing for you guys is that it's been 4+ just to try and get competitive. Now it's 1-2 just to add depth to a world class team

Maybe it will come in hindsight if you run out of steam, but genuinely surprised there was none to minimal criticism following no investment.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, but time will tell.

That same team has reached 2 CL finals and a record, albeit 2nd place, points total. In an earlier post you asked about Klopp's lucky injury record - the same manager that everyone jumped on the bandwagon of some trumped-up physio who said that our squad would be broken come the end of the season.

I'm not saying he's perfect, but he's outperforming all/most managers at the top with the budget he has had.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 21, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Just explain one thing, why did Origi clinch his right ankle when he was quite clearly touched on the left lower leg?

Was that pain transfer or a con trick? You tell me.
		
Click to expand...

I donâ€™t know enough about anatomy to hazard a guess.
But the foetal position is the main reflex when in pain .
Only a doctor could explain that.

So he was quite clearly kicked on the left leg from behind .Thats a foul!!

Did you notice how far away the ball was when he kicked him. It was a snide kick in the muscle  of his leg very cynical for a premier league player.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 21, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Mate if you think Origi was honest yesterday you are either so blinded by love of Liverpool or you have never kicked a ball in your life. 

He lost control of the ball felt a touch and tried to steal a free kick. Not for me.
		
Click to expand...

Why only 2 options, and why have many/most pundits said its a foul then.

You stick with your naive, self-righteous claptrap, but at least apply it across the board and not just in our direction.

I'm also anti-diving and anti-feigning, but I also dont live in some 1950's gentlemanly utopia where players will be as honest as the day is long. Since Sepp Blatter's influence on refs of "first to hit the deck" wins its a changed game. Also, if a player has his shirt pulled for 5 seconds, how many times have you seen a ref give nothing even though he has a clear view of it? For certain types of fouls only hitting the deck gets you the decision.

If you want to finish top of the fair play league, go for it, although taken on numbers of reds and yellows for last season. OO I wonder who it is.........https://www.sportbible.com/football...he-premier-league-in-201819-revealed-20190513..... Oo look its us.


----------



## paddyc (Oct 21, 2019)

fundy said:



			unless Freddies leaving with Emery at xmas then definitely the wrong way 

Click to expand...

Whats the point in Emery trying to learn Swedish.


----------



## fundy (Oct 21, 2019)

paddyc said:



			Whats the point in Emery trying to learn Swedish.
		
Click to expand...

well, he doesnt seem to understand English or football


----------



## TheDiablo (Oct 21, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, but time will tell.

That same team has reached 2 CL finals and a record, albeit 2nd place, points total. In an earlier post you asked about Klopp's lucky injury record - the same manager that everyone jumped on the bandwagon of some trumped-up physio who said that our squad would be broken come the end of the season.

I'm not saying he's perfect, but he's outperforming all/most managers at the top with the budget he has had.
		
Click to expand...

I think I called his injury record 'seriously impressive' but read into that what you will ðŸ¤·ðŸ»â€â™‚ï¸


----------



## Slime (Oct 21, 2019)

McGoldrick just booked for diving, utterly shameful and pathetically embarrassing.
Oh, John Fleck's got a shot or two in him.


----------



## fundy (Oct 21, 2019)

Slime said:



			McGoldrick just booked for diving, utterly shameful and pathetically embarrassing.
Oh, John Fleck's got a shot or two in him.
		
Click to expand...

as bad as they come that dive isnt it, anticpating what was coming and getting it wrong

time the authorities penalise such blatant cheating further for me


----------



## PieMan (Oct 21, 2019)

Pepe looks a quality signing.........ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 21, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			I think I called his injury record 'seriously impressive' but read into that what you will ðŸ¤·ðŸ»â€â™‚ï¸
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, 2 others said it was "lucky", thought yours was in the same vein, when replying, but I was wrong.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 21, 2019)

Why are Tierney and Holding still not playing? 

Arsenal look very disjointed. I can't see any progress from Emery this season even if they had won and gone 3rd. They seem to be drawing too many PL games or scraping a single goal win. They aren't dominating games


----------



## fundy (Oct 21, 2019)

GET EMERY OUT NOW !!!!!!!


----------



## Slime (Oct 21, 2019)

Wow. I can't believe just how many bang average players there are in the Arsenal team.
As a United supporter, it gives me hope!


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 21, 2019)

Just rubbish. Clueless rubbish.


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 21, 2019)

Slime said:



			Wow. I can't believe just how many bang average players there are in the Arsenal team.
As a United supporter, it gives me hope!
		
Click to expand...

Xhaka, Socratis, and Luiz aside, I am not so sure. Pick the right players in the right positions, the rest have a chance.


----------



## fundy (Oct 21, 2019)

Slime said:



			Wow. I can't believe just how many bang average players there are in the Arsenal team.
As a United supporter, it gives me hope!
		
Click to expand...

haha were bad, were not that bad


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 21, 2019)

fundy said:



			GET EMERY OUT NOW !!!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ This is what you, Murph and ArsenalFanTV wanted.

Now we have Emery he needs proper time and space to make it better. 

No kneejerk reactions please.


----------



## paddyc (Oct 21, 2019)

no desire no quality no threat no goals no idea. Emery not getting the best out of this team, no different to Wengers later years.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 21, 2019)

paddyc said:



			no desire no quality no threat no goals no idea. Emery not getting the best out of this team, no different to Wengers later years.
		
Click to expand...

Hard to argue. I am not certain he actually knows his best PL side yet and definitely hasn't got them playing well often enough


----------



## dronfield (Oct 21, 2019)

As a Blade i thought we did really well tonight - our defence has been really solid so far this season. We are more than holding our own and surprising a few folk.

Rich


----------



## Paperboy (Oct 21, 2019)

fundy said:



			GET EMERY OUT NOW !!!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Wenger in!!! ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Fish (Oct 22, 2019)

dronfield said:



			As a Blade i thought we did really well tonight - our defence has been really solid so far this season. We are more than holding our own and surprising a few folk.

Rich
		
Click to expand...

Which is why you are 1 of my 6 away results in a 4 fold, just 2 to go and 'cha ching'


----------



## PieMan (Oct 22, 2019)

fundy said:



			GET EMERY OUT NOW !!!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Hold on a couple more weeks and then Poch will be available........ðŸ˜‰ðŸ¤­ðŸ˜€


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 22, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			ðŸ˜‚ This is what you, Murph and ArsenalFanTV wanted.

Now we have Emery he needs proper time and space to make it better.

No kneejerk reactions please.
		
Click to expand...

If he was any good, showed any signs of improvement, I would happily be on board, but he is not. By every measursble stat, the guy is struggling. 
I think we have potentially the most exciting squad for the last ten years, andvit is being wasted by poor management. He, and his team of back room guys, are not working. 
Getting rid now would not be knee jerk, it would be the prudent thing to do.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 22, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			If he was any good, showed any signs of improvement, I would happily be on board, but he is not. By every measursble stat, the guy is struggling.
I think we have potentially the most exciting squad for the last ten years, andvit is being wasted by poor management. He, and his team of back room guys, are not working.
Getting rid now would not be knee jerk, it would be the prudent thing to do.
		
Click to expand...

I remember a certain manager at Utd didnâ€™t get off to a flyer. Went on to become the most successful manager in England of all time.

He will never become that but he deserves more time to sort things out.


----------



## PieMan (Oct 22, 2019)

If Emery was any good he'd be at a big club..........ðŸ˜‰ðŸ¤­ðŸ˜€


----------



## Hobbit (Oct 22, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			I remember a certain manager at Utd didnâ€™t get off to a flyer. Went on to become the most successful manager in England of all time.

He will never become that but he deserves more time to sort things out.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think people are giving Sheffield enough credit. They've done well against top teams so far this season AND haven't lost a game they were leading in at half time for 5 years - note, 5 years. I wouldn't write Emery off on this result.


----------



## PieMan (Oct 22, 2019)

PieMan said:



			If Emery was any good he'd be at a big club..........ðŸ˜‰ðŸ¤­ðŸ˜€
		
Click to expand...

In all fairness the same could be said of Poch..........ðŸ¤­ðŸ¤­ðŸ˜€


----------



## Beezerk (Oct 22, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			I don't think people are giving Sheffield enough credit. They've done well against top teams so far this season AND haven't lost a game they were leading in at half time for 5 years - note, 5 years. I wouldn't write Emery off on this result.
		
Click to expand...

That's Sheffield United btw ðŸ˜¡ðŸ¤£


----------



## Hobbit (Oct 22, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			That's Sheffield United btw ðŸ˜¡ðŸ¤£
		
Click to expand...

Is there another team in Sheffield?


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 22, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			I don't think people are giving Sheffield enough credit. They've done well against top teams so far this season AND haven't lost a game they were leading in at half time for 5 years - note, 5 years. I wouldn't write Emery off on this result.
		
Click to expand...

I think Sheffield played well. I am not saying this based on one result. It is based on my view of watching Emery's football. It is just awful. There is no preffered style of play, players played out of position, players who look confused, or frightened, it is risk averse. Just clueless.

Saka played in 3 different positions last night. At 18. Really? Bunging in young players, and expecting them to adapt? 

Wenger liked jazz hands footy, where the players had a free reign. Emery is jazz hands management where he just makes it up as he goes along.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 22, 2019)

PieMan said:



			In all fairness the same could be said of Poch..........ðŸ¤­ðŸ¤­ðŸ˜€
		
Click to expand...

You are on a roll .


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 22, 2019)

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸


----------



## Slime (Oct 22, 2019)

Evra was superb last night and Carragher did himself no harm by showing some humility.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50133876


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 22, 2019)

Well that's righted the goal difference anyway.


----------



## 4LEX (Oct 23, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			I think Sheffield played well. I am not saying this based on one result. It is based on my view of watching Emery's football. It is just awful. There is no preffered style of play, players played out of position, players who look confused, or frightened, it is risk averse. Just clueless.

Saka played in 3 different positions last night. At 18. Really? Bunging in young players, and expecting them to adapt?

Wenger liked jazz hands footy, where the players had a free reign. Emery is jazz hands management where he just makes it up as he goes along.
		
Click to expand...

Arsenal are in mess that'll take years to fix. And money. Which the owners won't spend because Wenger let you become a business, not a football club.

Wenger destroyed his legacy, the squad and the wage structure. How can Emery build a side when he's got a passenger like Ozil on 350k a week? Anyone key signing would want parity. The club can't afford to offload and bring in the right players - you're skint compared to the elite clubs. This is your level. No top manager will touch you because you don't have the ambition or finances to compete.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 23, 2019)

Slime said:



			Evra was superb last night and Carragher did himself no harm by showing some humility.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50133876

Click to expand...

I agree. I wonder though if it happened again (hope not) would other key players (and I am picking these purely at random like Kane, Sterling, Salah or Pogba) have the courage to stand up and say I'm not doing it or as Carrager says, go along with it as they are a "family" and so you support each other even when you know its wrong. The cynic in me says we've not really moved on that far and the answer would be no but the hopeful me says in the light of the current atmosphere and incidents, players would do the right thing. It would definitely be interesting to see how a side reacted now. I thought Carrager acted with humility with the way he spoke with Evra about it


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 23, 2019)

4LEX said:



			Arsenal are in mess that'll take years to fix. And money. Which the owners won't spend because Wenger let you become a business, not a football club.

Wenger destroyed his legacy, the squad and the wage structure. How can Emery build a side when he's got a passenger like Ozil on 350k a week? Anyone key signing would want parity. The club can't afford to offload and bring in the right players - you're skint compared to the elite clubs. This is your level. No top manager will touch you because you don't have the ambition or finances to compete.
		
Click to expand...

We have always had money, and Emery has spent a fortune already. 72m on Pepe isn't small change.
As for a top manager? I disagree. There is money, there is a salary of about 8m too. To work in London, with state of the art facilities, whether training ground, fitness, medical. There is a talented core of players to work with also. But most of all, following 10 years of mediocrity means its an easy one to succeed at for any manager with ambition.
That said, personally, I don't want an Ancelotti, or a Mourinho type name. I would like a newer, younger guy, with ideas, drive, charisma, and a plan. I have always fancied a Nagelsman type.

Managing players like Ozil is part of the job. All big clubs have players who are hard to manage. Pogba, Neymar, etc. Any manager with aspirations will have to deal with this type of player. Brushing him under the carpet is pathetic.


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 23, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Gomez behind Lovren again Stu?
Asking for a friend

Click to expand...

TBF, He is the best CB in the world......


----------



## Fish (Oct 23, 2019)

Brilliant from Chelsea tonight ðŸ‘ðŸ‘ðŸ‘


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 23, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Gomez behind Lovren again Stu?
Asking for a friend

Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s a strange one!
But Klopp the boss.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 23, 2019)

Superb finish from Oxlade-Chamberlain there.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 23, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Superb finish from Oxlade-Chamberlain there.
		
Click to expand...

Yes it was


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 23, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			3rd Choice RB as well

Click to expand...

I think Gent have surprised them .
He has rotated .
Gomez is good but has no divine right to play ,heâ€™s been out a long time .
But surprised him and Lallana not starting.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 23, 2019)

Lovren oh dear.!

We should have had a bagful tonight.


----------



## davemc1 (Oct 24, 2019)

That to me is our preferred midfield 3. Going forward, loads of positive signs. Iâ€™m not sure weâ€™ll see them in the league as a starting 3 for a while, defensive side needs work.

Itâ€™s also a refreshing change to have a midfielder whoâ€™s willing to shoot outside the area

No doubt the banner was in poor taste, but I just reckon itâ€™s a few ignorant lads havin a laugh rather than anything malicious. The timing isnâ€™t great tbf


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 24, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			No doubt the banner was in poor taste, but I just reckon itâ€™s a few ignorant lads havin a laugh rather than anything malicious. The timing isnâ€™t great tbf
		
Click to expand...

Bit like the Bernardo Silva tweet. 
Itâ€™s called racism these days.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 24, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			Bit like the Bernardo Silva tweet.
Itâ€™s called racism these days.
		
Click to expand...

It's a bit of a grey area. They'll argue it was a 'compliment' but it's based on racial stereotype so best to avoid really. 

I like Oxlade, it was a shame he got injured before the World Cup or he would have been a big part of our team. I think he's a really good player, and quite unique in that Liverpool side as a forward-thinking midfielder.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 24, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			It's a bit of a grey area. They'll argue it was a 'compliment' but it's based on racial stereotype so best to avoid really.
		
Click to expand...

wasnâ€™t that on The Office? ðŸ˜‚


----------



## hairball_89 (Oct 24, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			It's a bit of a grey area. They'll argue it was a 'compliment' but it's based on racial stereotype so best to avoid really.

I like Oxlade, it was a shame he got injured before the World Cup or he would have been a big part of our team. I think he's a really good player, and *quite unique in that Liverpool side as a forward-thinking midfielder.*

Click to expand...

I'd argue that's not entirely true. I'd say we have 3 forward thinking midfielders - Ox, Keita and Lallana. Just a shame they're all injured, all the time! All players being fit, the midfield trio we saw yesterday - Fabinho, Keita & Ox would be my first choice.


----------



## Fish (Oct 24, 2019)

Should this thread be renamed to 'Liverpool, we're off'.............


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 24, 2019)

Fish said:



			Should this thread be renamed to 'Liverpool, we're off'.............
		
Click to expand...

We could run another standard football thread. It would be an absolute breeze, a place of calm


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 24, 2019)

hairball_89 said:



			I'd argue that's not entirely true. I'd say we have 3 forward thinking midfielders - Ox, Keita and Lallana. Just a shame they're all injured, all the time! All players being fit, the midfield trio we saw yesterday - Fabinho, Keita & Ox would be my first choice.
		
Click to expand...

I think Lallana is probably past his best now, and Keita seems pretty inconsistent to me. Oxlade is the best bit for attacking mid in my opinion. He can hold down a regular start in that role whereas the other two, not sure.


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 24, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I think Lallana is probably past his best now, and Keita seems pretty inconsistent to me. Oxlade is the best bit for attacking mid in my opinion. He can hold down a regular start in that role whereas the other two, not sure.
		
Click to expand...

Keita reminds me of Fred. Does much of nothing. 
I think Lallana will remain a squad/impact player. 

Ox has a chance to break into that squad, but as much as its said their midfield can lack reactivity at times, it's also quite clear that atm when they break form the mould of a functional midfield they leave lots of gaps.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 24, 2019)

Fish said:



			Should this thread be renamed to 'Liverpool, we're off'.............
		
Click to expand...

I know mate, we're bored with it as well, but seems like most want to talk about the mighty reds, no matter - mostly bad, the odd good.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 24, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I know mate, we're bored with it as well, but seems like most want to talk about the mighty reds, no matter - mostly bad, the odd good. 

Click to expand...

Its the Soton fans because they like to dream what could of been.


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 24, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Its the Soton fans because they like to dream what could of been.

Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

I don't dream of anything loftier than 17th. I can remember the 90's lol


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 24, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We could run another standard football thread. It would be an absolute breeze, a place of calm 

Click to expand...

Definitely be less hissy fits ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 24, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We could run another standard football thread. It would be an absolute breeze, a place of calm 

Click to expand...

Who would Pinseaker post about though is there was non Liverpool thread


----------



## Slime (Oct 24, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who would *Pinseaker* post about though is there was non Liverpool thread
		
Click to expand...

Pinseaker?   **


Just being a bit cheeky!


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 24, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who would Pinseaker post about though is there was non Liverpool thread
		
Click to expand...

How would Plastic Liverpoolphil enjoy a match whilst not arguing the toss on here ðŸ¤ªðŸ¤£


----------



## fundy (Oct 24, 2019)

Sorry to bring the thread back to football but how on earth are there over 20,000 fans at the Wolves game when their hosts are supposed to be playing their next 2 games behind closed doors for racist behaviour! 

Answer, according to UEFA an invited under 14 and an accompanying adult is fine and dandy.

WALOFS UEFA


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 24, 2019)

I guess they assume the kids won't be racist in front of their parents?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 24, 2019)

This will be a decent result for Utd if they can hang on!


----------



## fundy (Oct 24, 2019)

No structure, no defensive plan, no clear roles, its just embarrassing, almost as bad as the token gesture commentator who thinks Ozil is probably Arsenals most creative player ever sigh

#EmeryOut

Edit: we prob still win by scoring 3 or 4 against a poorish side but yet again all the signs are there


----------



## fundy (Oct 24, 2019)

fundy said:



			No structure, no defensive plan, no clear roles, its just embarrassing, almost as bad as the token gesture commentator who thinks Ozil is probably Arsenals most creative player ever sigh

#EmeryOut

Edit: we prob still win by scoring 3 or 4 against a poorish side but yet again all the signs are there
		
Click to expand...

Re Edit: who am i kidding lol


----------



## Bazzatron (Oct 24, 2019)

fundy said:



			Sorry to bring the thread back to football but how on earth are there over 20,000 fans at the Wolves game when their hosts are supposed to be playing their next 2 games behind closed doors for racist behaviour!

Answer, according to UEFA an invited under 14 and an accompanying adult is fine and dandy.

WALOFS UEFA
		
Click to expand...

The only club that got punished was us, we were allowed 200 tickets. UEFA being UEFA. 

Anyway, racists 1-2 wolves.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 24, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			The only club that got punished was us, we were allowed 200 tickets. UEFA being UEFA.

Anyway, racists 1-2 wolves.
		
Click to expand...

Game any good mate? was watching the Utd match.


----------



## fundy (Oct 24, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			The only club that got punished was us, we were allowed 200 tickets. UEFA being UEFA. 

Anyway, racists 1-2 wolves.
		
Click to expand...


dont forget your 200 were strictly told not to wear colours too lol, so farcical

for anyone who think UEFA take these things seriously just ROFL


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 24, 2019)

Arsenal currently losing 1 2 to a pub team. At home.

Emery, tactical genius.


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 24, 2019)

Embarassing.


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 24, 2019)

Some idiot is going to say we are playing our B team, our kids, our second string. This is rubbish. We should be battering this team. Even if it gets changed around at half time, and we win, so what? Proves nothing. The first half is a shambles. Utter junk. Some very good players here being wasted.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 24, 2019)

Not sure what to say...... https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50166371


----------



## fundy (Oct 24, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Some idiot is going to say we are playing our B team, our kids, our second string. This is rubbish. We should be battering this team. Even if it gets changed around at half time, and we win, so what? Proves nothing. The first half is a shambles. Utter junk. Some very good players here being wasted.
		
Click to expand...

hes clueless, the team has no identity no plan the roles are unclear, yet again hes forced into early changes as his incoherent selection doesnt work again


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 24, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1187442005800112131
ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸


----------



## fundy (Oct 24, 2019)

so 2 changes in midfield and hes now got Torreira playing furthest forward of the midfielders, Guendoozi holding whilst Ozil is sat at home earning 350k. 

#EmeryOut


----------



## Bazzatron (Oct 24, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Game any good mate? was watching the Utd match.
		
Click to expand...

Slow first half, gave the ball away far too much. A few changes the second half and the introduction of Traore turned the game.


----------



## Bazzatron (Oct 24, 2019)

fundy said:



			dont forget your 200 were strictly told not to wear colours too lol, so farcical

for anyone who think UEFA take these things seriously just ROFL
		
Click to expand...

One lad sneaked into the ground this afternoon and sat in the toilet for 3 hours and managed to watch the game. ðŸ˜„

Racism will never get eradicated from the game, UEFA couldn't care less.


----------



## fundy (Oct 24, 2019)

get up Laca you cheat


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 24, 2019)

Embarassing.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 24, 2019)

Whereâ€™s Sawtooth to talk us through the Lacazzete dive.


----------



## larmen (Oct 24, 2019)

fundy said:



			so 2 changes in midfield and hes now got Torreira playing furthest forward of the midfielders, Guendoozi holding whilst Ozil is sat at home earning 350k.

#EmeryOut
		
Click to expand...

Is there a sporting reason he didnâ€™t play much, or is it political?
In Germany Ozil has created quite some backlash for being friendly with â€˜his presidentâ€™, much more than Rory playing with Trump.


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 24, 2019)

Emery doesn't like him.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 24, 2019)

larmen said:



			Is there a sporting reason he didnâ€™t play much, or is it political?
In Germany Ozil has created quite some backlash for being friendly with â€˜his presidentâ€™, much more than Rory playing with Trump.
		
Click to expand...

He dosnt play much in England.


----------



## fundy (Oct 24, 2019)

larmen said:



			Is there a sporting reason he didnâ€™t play much, or is it political?
In Germany Ozil has created quite some backlash for being friendly with â€˜his presidentâ€™, much more than Rory playing with Trump.
		
Click to expand...

Hes flattered to deceive a bit at Arsenal and never really delivered in the big games, managed to negotiate a massive contract before Wengers time ended. Since the new clown (sorry manager) Emery has been in hes been marginalised completely. They tried to move him on in the summer but couldnt find any takers considering his ridiculous salary! 

Whilst hes not the world beater he potentially could be he should certainly be a decent benefit to this Arsenal side if used properly


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 24, 2019)

Trying to find something positive to say about the 2nd half performance but that wasted free kick and Lacazette getting booked for moaning sum it up. I guess aside from the issues with Emery and picking a balanced side is what to do with Ozil. Clearly out of favour and if they want to get rid who is prepared to pay that salary. Could be a massive white elephant until the contract runs down


----------



## fundy (Oct 24, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Trying to find something positive to say about the 2nd half performance but that wasted free kick and Lacazette getting booked for moaning sum it up. I guess aside from the issues with Emery and picking a balanced side is what to do with Ozil. Clearly out of favour and if they want to get rid who is prepared to pay that salary. Could be a massive white elephant until the contract runs down
		
Click to expand...

cheers Homie  any chance you could jinx the draw now please


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 24, 2019)

fundy said:



			cheers Homie  any chance you could jinx the draw now please
		
Click to expand...

That'll cost extra


----------



## fundy (Oct 24, 2019)

Individual quality bails us out again, top stuff Pepe

#EmeryOut


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 24, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Whereâ€™s Sawtooth to talk us through the Lacazzete dive.
		
Click to expand...

Yep guilty of play acting, and I think Gendouzi dived for the free kick at the end too.

I call out Arsenal players when they do it but Liverpool fans on here see nothing wrong when their players do it. Blinkered beyond belief.

Emery will be very pleased with that, managed to give returning players a good run out , rested some first team ers and still got a win at the end.

Great for Pepes confidence to score a brace too.

Future will be bright I think under Emery we just need the spoilt brat fan base to keep their toys in the pram for a while longer. This was always going to be a 4-5 year project.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 24, 2019)

fundy said:



			Individual quality bails us out again, top stuff Pepe

#EmeryOut
		
Click to expand...

Think we need to talk about my jinxer fee


----------



## Paperboy (Oct 24, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Yep guilty of play acting, and I think Gendouzi dived for the free kick at the end too.

I call out Arsenal players when they do it but Liverpool fans on here see nothing wrong when their players do it. Blinkered beyond belief.

Emery will be very pleased with that, managed to give returning players a good run out , rested some first team ers and still got a win at the end.

Great for Pepes confidence to score a brace too.

Future will be bright I think under Emery we just need the spoilt brat fan base to keep their toys in the pram for a while longer. This was always going to be a 4-5 year project.
		
Click to expand...

Sean is it that long a project due to the state Wenger left the team in?

Not too sure how many Emery has brought in. Think it's mainly Wengers team with a few new players.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 24, 2019)

Paperboy said:



			Sean is it that long a project due to the state Wenger left the team in?

Not too sure how many Emery has brought in. Think it's mainly Wengers team with a few new players.
		
Click to expand...

Team personnel is different enough now but more importantly the manager has his own ideas. This will take time to get across. Took Klopp long enough to win something at Liverpool and remember he still hasnâ€™t won any domestic trophy including the league in 4 years. 

Is that because BR left Liverpool in such a state? No, itâ€™s because Klopp is his own man and with his own ideas. Takes time for everything to come together.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 24, 2019)

Liverpool, Liverpool, Liverpool and we're not even playing tonight. 

Same old, same old.


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 24, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Team personnel is different enough now but more importantly the manager has his own ideas. This will take time to get across. Took Klopp long enough to win something at Liverpool and remember he still hasnâ€™t won any domestic trophy including the league in 4 years.

Is that because BR left Liverpool in such a state? No, itâ€™s because Klopp is his own man and with his own ideas. Takes time for everything to come together.
		
Click to expand...

BR did leave them in a state though. There were 10th in the league, accumulating points at a rate similar to what got Mourinho the boot at Chelsea. Klopp got them back to 8th, but taking points at a rate that would have gotten 73 points in a full season (enough for fourth that year). Since then he has finished 4th, 4th, 2nd. That's improvement. 

Last year you did improve slightly to be fair. With points at least, but it does seem Emerys approach is simply a case of hoping your better players basically bail you out. I can't picture a defined style. If you finish 5/6th again i think he's toast as he doesn't have the credit with the board Wenger did and the sport has changed.


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 24, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Liverpool, Liverpool, Liverpool and we're not even playing tonight. 

Same old, same old.
		
Click to expand...

I tried to at least talk about Arsenal too...............


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 24, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I tried to at least talk about Arsenal too...............
		
Click to expand...

Impressive knowledge of LPool for a Saints fan.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 24, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			BR did leave them in a state though. There were 10th in the league, accumulating points at a rate similar to what got Mourinho the boot at Chelsea. Klopp got them back to 8th, but taking points at a rate that would have gotten 73 points in a full season (enough for fourth that year). Since then he has finished 4th, 4th, 2nd. That's improvement.

Last year you did improve slightly to be fair. With points at least, but it does seem Emerys approach is simply a case of hoping your better players basically bail you out. I can't picture a defined style. If you finish 5/6th again i think he's toast as he doesn't have the credit with the board Wenger did and the sport has changed.
		
Click to expand...

My bad I thought BR came within a whisker of winning the PL with Liverpool.


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 24, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Impressive knowledge of LPool for a Saints fan. 

Click to expand...

People outside of Liverpool can google.....


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 24, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			My bad I thought BR came within a whisker of winning the PL with Liverpool.
		
Click to expand...

Surely the fact they went from getting 80 points, to 60 to barely a point a game in his final season shows the trend wasn't a good one.

He left them no better than we he took over, in fact that's not true. Courtesy of a quick google. His first season he got 61 points, his last full he got 62.........


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 24, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Yep guilty of play acting, and I think Gendouzi dived for the free kick at the end too.

I call out Arsenal players when they do it but Liverpool fans on here see nothing wrong when their players do it. Blinkered beyond belief.

Emery will be very pleased with that, managed to give returning players a good run out , rested some first team ers and still got a win at the end.

Great for Pepes confidence to score a brace too.

Future will be bright I think under Emery we just need the spoilt brat fan base to keep their toys in the pram for a while longer. This was always going to be a 4-5 year project.
		
Click to expand...

You canâ€™t answer a question without mentioning Liverpool.
At least your honest about your own cheats.
Ferrira ( spelling ) decided to go down as well.
It was a blatant tug around his neck but watch it carefully ,he chose to go down for the foul.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 25, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			People outside of Liverpool can google.....
		
Click to expand...

And donâ€™t we know it ðŸ¤£


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 25, 2019)

This is roughly Emerys record as a manager

Valencia, 6th place
Valencia 3rd place, 25pts gap to second
Valencia 3rd place, 21 pts gap to second
Valencia 3rd place, 30 pts gap to second
Spartak, did not finish the season
Sevilla 5th
Sevilla 5th
Sevilla 7th
PSG 2nd
PSG 1st.

He is not exactly the messiah, more a journey man.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 25, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			This is roughly Emerys record as a manager

Valencia, 6th place
Valencia 3rd place, 25pts gap to second
Valencia 3rd place, 21 pts gap to second
Valencia 3rd place, 30 pts gap to second
Spartak, did not finish the season
Sevilla 5th
Sevilla 5th
Sevilla 7th
PSG 2nd
PSG 1st.

He is not exactly the messiah, more a journey man.
		
Click to expand...

Considering the heavily biased, financial, nature of Spanish football I think that is a very respectable and consistent record. You have also left out the 3 Europa League cups he won.

He may not be the messiah but that is not the record of a mug. (I should add, I am not claiming the job he is doing at Arsenal is a good one but that record is okay in the circumstances he was performing in)


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 25, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I tried to at least talk about Arsenal too...............
		
Click to expand...

Its easy to get them mixed up, red shirts, diving all over the place.....


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 25, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Its easy to get them mixed up, red shirts, diving all over the place..... 

Click to expand...

And for quite some time happy to finish 4th......


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Team personnel is different enough now but more importantly the manager has his own ideas. This will take time to get across. Took Klopp long enough to win something at Liverpool and remember he still hasnâ€™t won any domestic trophy including the league in 4 years.

Is that because BR left Liverpool in such a state? No, itâ€™s because Klopp is his own man and with his own ideas. Takes time for everything to come together.
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸

Come on - either but stupid or on a wind up ?!

Klopp took over from a poor BR team - really poor - by the end of the season we reached both the League cup and Europa Cup Final 

In his first full season he took a team from 8th to CL spot , then consolidated it whilst reaching another CL final , then last season won the CL as well as improving in the league and this season we continue on the upward trend. 

Emery is miles away from getting anywhere near Arsenal challenging for any major trophy and it will be another season out of the CL ahead - he just isnâ€™t good enough - been there for 16 months now and I donâ€™t believe there is any improvement on the pitch.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 25, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸

Come on - either but stupid or on a wind up ?!

Klopp took over from a poor BR team - really poor - by the end of the season we reached both the League cup and Europa Cup Final

In his first full season he took a team from 8th to CL spot , then consolidated it whilst reaching another CL final , then last season won the CL as well as improving in the league and this season we continue on the upward trend.

Emery is miles away from getting anywhere near Arsenal challenging for any major trophy and *it will be another season out of the CL ahead* - he just isnâ€™t good enough - been there for 16 months now and I donâ€™t believe there is any improvement on the pitch.
		
Click to expand...

That's a bold call. They've certainly started better than us or United. Only behind Leicester and Chelsea in that respect currently. Showing a lot of faith in Leicester I think to suppose they will stay in there all season now.


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 25, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			That's a bold call. They've certainly started better than us or United. Only behind Leicester and Chelsea in that respect currently. Showing a lot of faith in Leicester I think to suppose they will stay in there all season now.
		
Click to expand...

But there is no performance, no recognised style of play. It doesn't look like anything you can build on.


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 25, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Considering the heavily biased, financial, nature of Spanish football I think that is a very respectable and consistent record. You have also left out the 3 Europa League cups he won.

He may not be the messiah but that is not the record of a mug. (I should add, I am not claiming the job he is doing at Arsenal is a good one but that record is okay in the circumstances he was performing in)
		
Click to expand...

I was talking league positions, as that is what is important to me. Repeatedly winning a comp Arsenal don't even want to be in is meaningless, and if anything shows where his level is.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 25, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			But there is no performance, no recognised style of play. It doesn't look like anything you can build on.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah they have a multitude of flaws, I just mean you can't say with certainty they won't get champions league. Very few teams have actually started the season well to be honest. Arguably only Liverpool, Leicester & Sheff Utd - at a stretch Chelsea & Palace.


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 25, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah they have a multitude of flaws, I just mean you can't say with certainty they won't get champions league. Very few teams have actually started the season well to be honest. Arguably only Liverpool, Leicester & Sheff Utd - at a stretch Chelsea & Palace.
		
Click to expand...

For sure, but I don't give a stuff about the CL either. We used to challenge for the league. That is what I want.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			That's a bold call. They've certainly started better than us or United. Only behind Leicester and Chelsea in that respect currently. Showing a lot of faith in Leicester I think to suppose they will stay in there all season now.
		
Click to expand...

Spurs will recover and it will be down to them and Leicester for one of the spots as I think Chelsea will continue to play well . Arsenal doesnâ€™t seem to have a structure , a way to play , their backline and midfield is really poor - itâ€™s hard to see what direction he is going to go on. For me they will be in 5th or 6th position


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 25, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Spurs will recover and it will be down to them and Leicester for one of the spots as I think Chelsea will continue to play well . Arsenal doesnâ€™t seem to have a structure , a way to play , their backline and midfield is really poor - itâ€™s hard to see what direction he is going to go on. For me they will be in 5th or 6th position
		
Click to expand...

That's fair enough. They'll have the opportunity to strengthen in January, but you just can't see them doing so adequately can you?


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 25, 2019)

It doesn't matter who they buy, they will suffer from the same confused coaching, and the results will be the same.

A large chunk of the squad is now Emerys. He has been there 15 odd months, and the performance is getting worse.


----------



## 3offTheTee (Oct 25, 2019)

Quick one for you Football men:

When was the last time 7 English sides (all) won in European Competitions in the same week?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			That's fair enough. They'll have the opportunity to strengthen in January, but you just can't see them doing so adequately can you?
		
Click to expand...

January transfer windows arenâ€™t really a gold mine for the players that really change a team - there have been the odd buys but i donâ€™t expect one transfer window is going to cure their ills 

Arsenal and Man Utd are at a stage that Liverpool found themselves in when Rafa left - need a top manager and the right player purchases.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 25, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			I was talking league positions, as that is what is important to me. Repeatedly winning a comp Arsenal don't even want to be in is meaningless, and if anything shows where his level is.
		
Click to expand...

I understand that but I was trying to give him a bit of credit. Equally, Arsenal have been a cup team for quite a few years now so maybe him winning cups was an attraction for the board. When was the last time they genuinely challenged for the title? I don't just mean league position but actually threatened? It must be a long time ago.

It is hard to criticise him in Spain though, the league is so heavily in favour of the big 2, Atletico Madrid are now also spending big so you have 3 teams and everyone else is playing for 4th.

As I posted earlier, I don't see Arsenal enough to defend him for his Arsenal record but I think his record in Spain is respectable. At the moment I am not sure Arsenal can attract much better.


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 25, 2019)

I don't see a 3rd place finish in Spain, 30 points behind second as an achievement. You only play RM and Barca twice, and pretty much everyone loses. After that, it is a free for all, but 30 ponits behind second shows a lot of dropped points.

Oh, and at his last year at Sevilla, he went an entire season without an away win. Sound familiar?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2019)

Blimey was that VAR being used the correct way ? 

Barnes looks a very good player. Leicester look a very good team


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 25, 2019)

Is the championship thread still a thing........ 

Anyone for a chat about Liverpool ðŸ˜‚


----------



## fundy (Oct 25, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blimey was that VAR being used the correct way ? 

Barnes looks a very good player. Leicester look a very good team
		
Click to expand...


5.9 for Barnes for me


----------



## ColchesterFC (Oct 25, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			I don't see a 3rd place finish in Spain, 30 points behind second as an achievement. You only play RM and Barca twice, and pretty much everyone loses. After that, it is a free for all, but 30 ponits behind second shows a lot of dropped points.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe a better indicator would be how many points in front of 4th place (or possibly last CL place) they finished. In Spain unless you are Barcelona or Real Madrid you aren't expected to be in the top two. It's a best of the rest competition almost every season.


----------



## fundy (Oct 25, 2019)

Allardyce to the south coast please, would big Sam head to Southampton please


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 25, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸

Come on - either but stupid or on a wind up ?!

Klopp took over from a poor BR team - really poor - by the end of the season we reached both the League cup and Europa Cup Final

In his first full season he took a team from 8th to CL spot , then consolidated it whilst reaching another CL final , then last season won the CL as well as improving in the league and this season we continue on the upward trend.

Emery is miles away from getting anywhere near Arsenal challenging for any major trophy and it will be another season out of the CL ahead - he just isnâ€™t good enough - been there for 16 months now and I donâ€™t believe there is any improvement on the pitch.
		
Click to expand...

Mmmm, Liverpool finish second in the league by just 2 points behind City and a year later the team was â€œpoor, really poorâ€ ?!

I donâ€™t think so somehow.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 25, 2019)

Rogers have definitely got Leicester playing some nice stuff and irrespective of the sending off, were on top. They've been clinical since and a great VAR use for a change. I think the second half will be a tough one for any Saints fan to watch


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Mmmm, Liverpool finish second in the league by just 2 points behind City and a year later the team was â€œpoor, really poorâ€ ?!

I donâ€™t think so somehow.
		
Click to expand...

What happened in the summer ? They sold Suarez who was massive during the one good season BR had - how did they do once he left ? They came 6th - that one season was a one off - he had three and a half seasons 7th then 2nd then 6th and when he left we were 10th I think.


----------



## GG26 (Oct 25, 2019)

I must admit that Iâ€™m rather enjoying the match this evening ðŸ˜Š


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 25, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What happened in the summer ? They sold Suarez who was massive during the one good season BR had - how did they do once he left ? They came 6th - that one season was a one off - he had three and a half seasons 7th then 2nd then 6th and when he left we were 10th I think.
		
Click to expand...

10th yeah after 2 months of a season before he as sacked. 

You make it sound like Liverpool were relegation candidates when Klopp took over. They very nearly won the league the season before so just adding some context thatâ€™s all.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 25, 2019)

Our club steward is a Saints fan and working tonight as there is a function on. I hope he hasn't had the TV on or he's going to get pelters all night from some of the members


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			10th yeah after 2 months of a season before he as sacked.

You make it sound like Liverpool were relegation candidates when Klopp took over. They very nearly won the league the season before so just adding some context thatâ€™s all.
		
Click to expand...

it wasnâ€™t the season before - the season after they came 2nd they came 6th miles away from the top 4 and going backwards , the next season they were going further backwards and it was time for a change - there is now just three players left from that squad - they had one good season when Suarez was unplayable , take him out and they were poor and the results showed that. 

The context is Klopp took over a mid table team and turned them into one of the best in Europe - Emery has taken a team that were Qualifying for the Europa league to a team that is still Qualifying for the Europa league - he will imo be gone at the end of the season if he doesnâ€™t make the top 4 and I donâ€™t see his team or tactics being good enough to get top 4


----------



## SteveW86 (Oct 25, 2019)

Imagine having 3 Leicester players in your fantasy league team and none of them having a goal or assist ðŸ™ˆðŸ™ˆ


----------



## Imurg (Oct 25, 2019)

GG26 said:



			I must admit that Iâ€™m rather enjoying the match this evening ðŸ˜Š
		
Click to expand...

Your Boys about to free the Ipswich 9..?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 25, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			Imagine having 3 Leicester players in your fantasy league team and none of them having a goal or assist ðŸ™ˆðŸ™ˆ
		
Click to expand...

I tried to transfer Vardy and Maddison into my team this morning but apparently I've had my 3 transfers for the month so it wont go through until Nov 1st ðŸ˜­. I'm getting whupped in my mini league and could have done with this going through. The only redemption is I have Schmeichel in goal.

That is tough on you mind, harsh.


----------



## SteveW86 (Oct 25, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I tried to transfer Vardy and Maddison into my team this morning but apparently I've had my 3 transfers for the month so it wont go through until Nov 1st ðŸ˜­. I'm getting whupped in my mini league and could have done with this going through. The only redemption is I have Schmeichel in goal.

That is tough on you mind, harsh.
		
Click to expand...

2 defenders in the team, so providing Southampton donâ€™t score it will be good. Just need Maddison to chip in with something as he is the 3rd


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 25, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			it wasnâ€™t the season before - the season after they came 2nd they came 6th miles away from the top 4 and going backwards , the next season they were going further backwards and it was time for a change - there is now just three players left from that squad - they had one good season when Suarez was unplayable , take him out and they were poor and the results showed that.

The context is Klopp took over a mid table team and turned them into one of the best in Europe - Emery has taken a team that were Qualifying for the Europa league to a team that is still Qualifying for the Europa league - he will imo be gone at the end of the season if he doesnâ€™t make the top 4 and I donâ€™t see his team or tactics being good enough to get top 4
		
Click to expand...

OK year the before, I still argue that Liverpool couldnâ€™t have been that bad when Klopp took over. 

And after 4 years Klopp still hasnâ€™t assembled a side capable of winning the league why should we be getting on Emeryâ€™s case after 16 months?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			OK year the before, I still argue that Liverpool couldnâ€™t have been that bad when Klopp took over.

And after 4 years Klopp still hasnâ€™t assembled a side capable of winning the league why should we be getting on Emeryâ€™s case after 16 months?
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool are capable of winning the league , they were capable last year as well but itâ€™s just not that easy when a team like City is around. Season upon season Klopp made great strides forward and used his money well making significant signings to improve the squad - anyone could see the tactics and plans , there was/is structure , and itâ€™s been rewarded with a CL and a great chance of winning further titles.

After 16 months at a club that has ambitions to challenge for the trophies you would expect a manager to make forward  strides , you see a structure put in place , to start to build foundations - Arsenal are no better off now than before he took over - some say they have gone backwards. Another season without CL football and Emery is gone - itâ€™s not good enough. Any manager that allows Xhaka to be given the armband and also play in the team needs evaluating


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 25, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			2 defenders in the team, so providing Southampton donâ€™t score it will be good. Just need Maddison to chip in with something as he is the 3rd
		
Click to expand...

That should do it. Decent strike


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 25, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			Imagine having 3 Leicester players in your fantasy league team and none of them having a goal or assist ðŸ™ˆðŸ™ˆ
		
Click to expand...

Was starting to think Madison was on strike


----------



## SteveW86 (Oct 25, 2019)

I think itâ€™s fair to say Southampton have been terrible this evening, but this Leicester team keep impressing.

A very solid base to the team and what seems like a real â€œfeel goodâ€ club thatâ€™s very well run.


----------



## Wolf (Oct 25, 2019)

Literally lost for words at Leicester tonight, excellent performance from them, woeful saints performance.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 25, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			I think itâ€™s fair to say Southampton have been terrible this evening, but this Leicester team keep impressing.

A very solid base to the team and what seems like a real â€œfeel goodâ€ club thatâ€™s very well run.
		
Click to expand...

What a great way to pay a tribute to their former chairman a year on from the helicopter crash


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 25, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Liverpool are capable of winning the league , they were capable last year as well but itâ€™s just not that easy when a team like City is around. Season upon season Klopp made great strides forward and used his money well making significant signings to improve the squad - anyone could see the tactics and plans , there was/is structure , and itâ€™s been rewarded with a CL and a great chance of winning further titles.

After 16 months at a club that has ambitions to challenge for the trophies you would expect a manager to make forward  strides , you see a structure put in place , to start to build foundations - Arsenal are no better off now than before he took over - some say they have gone backwards. Another season without CL football and Emery is gone - itâ€™s not good enough. Any manager that allows Xhaka to be given the armband and also play in the team needs evaluating
		
Click to expand...

First season in charge he finished 5th, if Arsenal finish 4th this year is that not a forward stride?

Klopp finished 8th first season didnâ€™t he?


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 25, 2019)

A manager who names 5 captains, one of which cannot even get on the bench against a pub team. Really? 

This is a guy who creates chances, and links the mid field to the attack. He provides opportunities. Now if the team was rolling up the league, chances to burn, and the issue was finishing, I would get it. But no, we had less opportunities than the pub team. 

If he has an issue with Ozil, and he clearly does, don't name him as one of the 5.


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 25, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			First season in charge he finished 5th, if Arsenal finish 4th this year is that not a forward stride?

Klopp finished 8th first season didnâ€™t he?
		
Click to expand...

No, falling into 4th because everyone else is going backwards is not progress.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 25, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What happened in the summer ? They sold Suarez who was massive during the one good season BR had - how did they do once he left ? They came 6th - that one season was a one off - he had three and a half seasons 7th then 2nd then 6th and when he left we were 10th I think.
		
Click to expand...

Remember when I said Suarez was making Brenda look good,but you kept telling us that everything was hunky dory & he was a young exciting British manager & the future was bright? 
Can you remember this Phil?


----------



## ColchesterFC (Oct 25, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What happened in the summer ? They sold Suarez who was massive during the one good season BR had - how did they do once he left ? They came 6th - that one season was a one off - he had three and a half seasons 7th then 2nd then 6th and when he left we were 10th I think.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that selling Suarez can be blamed on Rogers. Would any manager say "yes" if asked "would you like to sell your world class striker". If the board get rid of that world class striker and don't replace him then it's not the manager's fault if the team don't do as well the following season.


----------



## User62651 (Oct 25, 2019)

So are Leicester a better team this season than their title winning one? I think they are.
Rodgers stock is rising quickly, won't be at Leicester too long.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			First season in charge he finished 5th, if Arsenal finish 4th this year is that not a forward stride?

Klopp finished 8th first season didnâ€™t he?
		
Click to expand...

Klopp took over halfway in a season - his first full season after starting to bring his own players in the team finished 4th - ( even in that half season they reached two cup finals). 

And Arsenal arenâ€™t going to finish 4th - there are 5 teams better than them in front of them


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 25, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Klopp took over halfway in a season - his first full season after starting to bring his own players in the team finished 4th - ( even in that half season they reached two cup finals).

And Arsenal arenâ€™t going to finish 4th - there are 5 teams better than them in front of them
		
Click to expand...

Maybe, maybe not, thatâ€™s just your forecast. 

Will have to wait until May to see how Emery and Arsenal finish.

A bit silly to write him off after just a season I think.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Maybe, maybe not, thatâ€™s just your forecast.

Will have to wait until May to see how Emery and Arsenal finish.

A bit silly to write him off after just a season I think.
		
Click to expand...

Do you see Arsenal being better than 

City , Liverpool , Spurs , Chelsea and now Leicester ? 

And thatâ€™s modern football now - especially at top clubs , if a manager doesnâ€™t bring improvements quickly then players go and they lose their job , Arsenal didnâ€™t act quickly enough with Wenger - he stagnanted and they ended up paying the penalty for that and Emery was brought in to turn that around - itâ€™s hard to see him doing that despite spending significant amounts of money. 

If Arsenal finish in the top 4 Iâ€™ll put Â£20 into H4H


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 25, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you see Arsenal being better than

City , Liverpool , Spurs , Chelsea and now Leicester ?

And thatâ€™s modern football now - especially at top clubs , if a manager doesnâ€™t bring improvements quickly then players go and they lose their job , Arsenal didnâ€™t act quickly enough with Wenger - he stagnanted and they ended up paying the penalty for that and Emery was brought in to turn that around - itâ€™s hard to see him doing that despite spending significant amounts of money.

If Arsenal finish in the top 4 Iâ€™ll put Â£20 into H4H
		
Click to expand...

Catching City and Liverpool this season is a stretch but 3rd or 4th is entirely possible and would be excellent progress for a team in transition.


----------



## GG26 (Oct 25, 2019)

Well you couldnâ€™t pick a better way to honour the anniversary of Vichaiâ€™s passing, a new record away win in the top flight.  I was in tears last week at the match and today was just proud.
Thanks Vichai ðŸ‘


----------



## Hobbit (Oct 25, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you see Arsenal being better than

City , Liverpool , Spurs , Chelsea and now Leicester ?

And thatâ€™s modern football now - especially at top clubs , if a manager doesnâ€™t bring improvements quickly then players go and they lose their job , Arsenal didnâ€™t act quickly enough with Wenger - he stagnanted and they ended up paying the penalty for that and Emery was brought in to turn that around - itâ€™s hard to see him doing that despite spending significant amounts of money.

If Arsenal finish in the top 4 Iâ€™ll put Â£20 into H4H
		
Click to expand...

I think Leicester's score tonight distorts the goal difference. In reality its City and Liverpool. After that I wouldn't like to predict anything. Will Palace stay in that position? Highly unlikely. Could Arsenal catch Chelsea? Why not. I think Arsenal's squad is better than Chelsea's. And can Chelsea's youngsters have the stamina to maintain that level of performance? I doubt it. When will Spurs find their mojo? Now there's a squad that's looking a bit light.

3rd, 4th and 5th place is between Leicester, Chelsea and Arsenal. That puts Spurs in 6th...


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 25, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			Imagine having 3 Leicester players in your fantasy league team and none of them having a goal or assist ðŸ™ˆðŸ™ˆ
		
Click to expand...

I picked a good week to transfer Vardy in and make him captain I must admit.


----------



## Slime (Oct 25, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			I think Leicester's score tonight distorts the goal difference. In reality its City and Liverpool. After that I wouldn't like to predict anything. Will Palace stay in that position? Highly unlikely. Could Arsenal catch Chelsea? Why not. I think Arsenal's squad is better than Chelsea's. And can Chelsea's youngsters have the stamina to maintain that level of performance? I doubt it. When will Spurs find their mojo? Now there's a squad that's looking a bit light.

*3rd, 4th and 5th place is between Leicester, Chelsea and Arsenal. That puts Spurs in 6th...*

Click to expand...

Helllloooooo.
Aren't you forgetting someone?







Oh, maybe not.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 26, 2019)

VAR again ?
silva clearly claiming the goal so Sterling is offside and right in front of the keeper.


----------



## Dan2501 (Oct 26, 2019)

Silva Out! Good performance last week, but another loss to another side we should be beating. What a rubbish start to the season.


----------



## Norrin Radd (Oct 26, 2019)

YAY!!!! Brighton get an extra time winner this week after conceding one last week. What goes comes round .
SEAGULLS


----------



## Dan2501 (Oct 26, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1188121298674823168
Nice one VAR.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2019)

Dan2501 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1188121298674823168
Nice one VAR.
		
Click to expand...

Stood on the player apparently which canâ€™t be seen in that replay?


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 26, 2019)

Well having had a second watch I've decided my refusal to cap a player in my fanstay team as they're playing saints is gonna have to end. 

Absolutely shambolic performance. Didn't think it was a red tbh, but the fight was non existent. If the players aren't in training today the bloody well should be. 

We're rotten from the top. Leicester yesterday got to celebrate one of the best ever owners in the league. Ours has absolutely tarnished the name of her late father's. If she wanted out, she could at least do it properly and send to people who didn't just want a pl team on their cv.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Well having had a second watch I've decided my refusal to cap a player in my fanstay team as they're playing saints is gonna have to end.

Absolutely shambolic performance.* Didn't think it was a red tbh,* but the fight was non existent. If the players aren't in training today the bloody well should be.

We're rotten from the top. Leicester yesterday got to celebrate one of the best ever owners in the league. Ours has absolutely tarnished the name of her late father's. If she wanted out, she could at least do it properly and send to people who didn't just want a pl team on their cv.
		
Click to expand...

Wow ! You really didnâ€™t think it was a red ? He went over the ball into the shin with the studs ? Looked a clear a red card as you would see.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2019)

Dan2501 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1188121298674823168
Nice one VAR.
		
Click to expand...

Here is another angle 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1188126831955894272


----------



## Dan2501 (Oct 26, 2019)

I mean, yeah, there's contact, he accidentally stands on his foot, but the reaction is laughable. Rolls around on the floor holding his shin. Proper soft penalty. 

Fact is though, we obviously weren't good enough, again. Something needs to change, it's not working this season.


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 26, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wow ! You really didnâ€™t think it was a red ? He went over the ball into the shin with the studs ? Looked a clear a red card as you would see.
		
Click to expand...

Tbf last night I got in such a state I coukdnt recall it. 

Just watched it again as you seemed so so shocked. Like I said, I only watched highlights this afternoon and on the one replay it looked as though it was actually the side of his boot that hit the leg. I'll concede that now having seen a few more replays it's studs so it's a red. I still don't think there was any intent. He lost his footy and the conditions won't have helped. But yes its a red.


----------



## Dan2501 (Oct 26, 2019)

Fantastic goal that from Pulisic. Mistake from Lowton, but Pulisic still had plenty to do, and did it superbly.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbf last night I got in such a state I coukdnt recall it.

Just watched it again as you seemed so so shocked. Like I said, I only watched highlights this afternoon and on the one replay it looked as though it was actually the side of his boot that hit the leg. I'll concede that now having seen a few more replays it's studs so it's a red. I still don't think there was any intent. He lost his footy and the conditions won't have helped. But yes its a red.
		
Click to expand...

Definitely no intent at all - just lunged and because of the ball being wet possibly the foot slides over it and can understand being shocked - everything seemed to be sucked out of the team. 

Donâ€™t see the manager being the issue and think you will stay up - are there a few players out injured ?


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 26, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Definitely no intent at all - just lunged and because of the ball being wet possibly the foot slides over it and can understand being shocked - everything seemed to be sucked out of the team.

Donâ€™t see the manager being the issue and think you will stay up - are there a few players out injured ?
		
Click to expand...

No real injury issues. I like his tactics generally. Last night was players fault more than anything else. No matter what formation, if they don't put a shift in, you're in trouble. We had no effort from the first goal onwards. Could understand if it was from like the 7th... 

That being said, whilst he's got us pressing better. We don't imo have the players to fit the formation he's trying. We have the players for a standard 4231. 
Selling Target was a mistake, imo he's as good as Bertrand and younger. But our owners couldn't resist 17m.

We need a cb. And a left back. Generally speaking. I'd start Gunn, Bertrand, Vestergaard, Bednarek, Valery. Romeu, Hojberg,  Redmond, Ward Prowse, Long, Ings. 

I reckon that teams stays up. Have a few players who need to go. Armstrong can go back to Scotland for free. Another play just not good enough South of the border. 

Unfortunately we've had some poor transfer windows. Seem to have overpaid nobodies and can't think of many success stories lately. We've spent 200m in the last 4 seasons and imo the only successes have been Redmond and Gunn.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 26, 2019)

Definitely a red card last night. Want to see the Brighton penalty on MOTD as there was contact and the law uses the word "careless" so guess that is why VAR gave it http://www.thefa.com/football-rules.../football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct Is time running our for Silva at Everton


----------



## Dan2501 (Oct 26, 2019)

Hat-trick for Pulisic. Superb performance.


----------



## fundy (Oct 26, 2019)

Well the Leicester and Chelsea performances this weekend have assured me nicely how well were progressing under Emery ðŸ˜²ðŸ¤£


----------



## fundy (Oct 26, 2019)

6.0 for CHO lol


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 26, 2019)

Is this really a case of VAR going way too far? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50196446


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 26, 2019)

Well as far as Tashyboy is now concerned you can shove VAR right up your jacksy. In its present format it is killing the enjoyment of the game. In a nutshell it is Rammel.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 26, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Well as far as Tashyboy is now concerned you can shove VAR right up your jacksy. In its present format it is killing the enjoyment of the game. In a nutshell it is Rammel.
		
Click to expand...

Not VAR itâ€™s the knobs using it.


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 27, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not VAR itâ€™s the knobs using it.
		
Click to expand...

Yesterday was purgatory, when City scored the second, it was like the Spurs game when rhe Jesus game was disallowed. Every player thought it was a fair goal. Then VAR gets involved. Yesterday there's talk that Sterling could of unsighted the keeper. At what point, the ball has travelled 20 yds left to right or right to left. The keeper never moved til it's nigh on past him. We got the decision but it was diabolical waiting for the decision. It is killing the game. I suppose it's ok watching it on the box at home, you can see all the replays etc etc etc. At the game. It a tumbleweed moment. Your right, it's ( partially ) the knobs using it. Last few years we have done nowt but moan re refs, yet they are the ones who are viewing VAR. Heard a comment yesterday that the VAR used at the rugby World Cup showed the prem league how it should be done. Couldn't agree more.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 27, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Yesterday was purgatory, when City scored the second, it was like the Spurs game when rhe Jesus game was disallowed. Every player thought it was a fair goal. Then VAR gets involved. Yesterday there's talk that Sterling could of unsighted the keeper. At what point, the ball has travelled 20 yds left to right or right to left. The keeper never moved til it's nigh on past him. We got the decision but it was diabolical waiting for the decision. It is killing the game. I suppose it's ok watching it on the box at home, you can see all the replays etc etc etc. At the game. It a tumbleweed moment. Your right, it's ( partially ) the knobs using it. Last few years we have done nowt but moan re refs, yet they are the ones who are viewing VAR. Heard a comment yesterday that the VAR used at the rugby World Cup showed the prem league how it should be done. Couldn't agree more.
		
Click to expand...

Tash, I hate VAR but your goal was offside, Silva touched it and admitted so. You benefitted from a wrong decision.
As for the Rugby, there was a debate they got a decision wrong, the difference is the fact they accept it.


----------



## Norrin Radd (Oct 27, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Yesterday was purgatory, when City scored the second, it was like the Spurs game when rhe Jesus game was disallowed. Every player thought it was a fair goal. Then VAR gets involved. Yesterday there's talk that Sterling could of unsighted the keeper. At what point, the ball has travelled 20 yds left to right or right to left. The keeper never moved til it's nigh on past him. We got the decision but it was diabolical waiting for the decision. It is killing the game. I suppose it's ok watching it on the box at home, you can see all the replays etc etc etc. At the game. It a tumbleweed moment. Your right, it's ( partially ) the knobs using it. Last few years we have done nowt but moan re refs, yet they are the ones who are viewing VAR. Heard a comment yesterday that the VAR used at the rugby World Cup showed the prem league how it should be done. Couldn't agree more.
		
Click to expand...

Tashy you moan about who is on the var panel as being referees ,so who is more qualified to be on the var panel other than referees.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 27, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Yesterday was purgatory, when City scored the second, it was like the Spurs game when rhe Jesus game was disallowed. Every player thought it was a fair goal. Then VAR gets involved. Yesterday there's talk that Sterling could of unsighted the keeper. At what point, the ball has travelled 20 yds left to right or right to left. The keeper never moved til it's nigh on past him. We got the decision but it was diabolical waiting for the decision. It is killing the game. I suppose it's ok watching it on the box at home, you can see all the replays etc etc etc. At the game. It a tumbleweed moment. Your right, it's ( partially ) the knobs using it. Last few years we have done nowt but moan re refs, yet they are the ones who are viewing VAR. Heard a comment yesterday that the VAR used at the rugby World Cup showed the prem league how it should be done. Couldn't agree more.
		
Click to expand...

You can quite clearly see Silva show the ref where he touched the ball on his boot.
That was before the VAR decision.
So the ref asks var is Sterling offside when Silva  deflects the ball â€œYES.â€
â€œOk itâ€™s offsideâ€ 30 seconds max.

But Var decided Silva didnâ€™t touch the ball ,even though he admitted he did.
Thatâ€™s why KDB was credited with the goal.

Knobs.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 27, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			You can quite clearly see Silva show the ref where he touched the ball on his boot.
That was before the VAR decision.
So the ref asks var is Sterling offside when Silva  deflects the ball â€œYES.â€
â€œOk itâ€™s offsideâ€ 30 seconds max.

But Var decided Silva didnâ€™t touch the ball ,even though he admitted he did.
Thatâ€™s why KDB was credited with the goal.

Knobs.
		
Click to expand...

Because every Ref should believe everything a player tells him!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 27, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Because every Ref should believe everything a player tells him!
		
Click to expand...

Not really Silva was claiming the goal he didnâ€™t know Sterling was offside!
But I would hope it was part of the decision making.
But he went totally with the VAR decision.

Normally itâ€™s the total opposite â€œ I didnâ€™t touch it/ him.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 27, 2019)

Got to feel sorry for the young lad - but always going to run the risk when you slide in like that and the foot goes high 

- wasnâ€™t that long ago those tackles were yellow cards


----------



## Norrin Radd (Oct 27, 2019)

Kane nods home early doors for spurs .game on


----------



## fundy (Oct 27, 2019)

Good to see our centre halves amongst the goals  now for the harder bit for them


----------



## Wolf (Oct 27, 2019)

fundy said:



			Good to see our centre halves amongst the goals  now for the harder bit for them
		
Click to expand...

Yep we didn't even manage to get thru the first half before they cocked up that part of their jobs ðŸ˜‚


----------



## fundy (Oct 27, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Yep we didn't even manage to get thru the first half before they cocked up that part of their jobs ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

not seen it but on all accounts ref booked Zaha for a dive and VAR overruled it and gave a pen!


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 27, 2019)

See Mane going to ground again even before the Spurs player makes contact.  

He is easily the worst cheat in the league.


----------



## Wolf (Oct 27, 2019)

fundy said:



			not seen it but on all accounts ref booked Zaha for a dive and VAR overruled it and gave a pen!
		
Click to expand...

I've not seen it myself either as watching the NFL, just seeing the live text updates according to that VAR saying it was Chambers responsible, be interesting to see later


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 27, 2019)

Well certainly is a good game - Spurs GK having a blinder at the moment with some great saves , got to get a goal back early in the second half , very sharp from Kane to react


----------



## PieMan (Oct 27, 2019)

Can't believe I'm hoping Spurs hold on for a win ðŸ˜­ Absolutely disgusted by that ðŸ˜¡ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Slime (Oct 27, 2019)

What's going on with my lot?
Two away goals, and it's only half time ------------ good.
Another two missed penalties ------------------- not good.


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 27, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Can't believe I'm hoping Spurs hold on for a win ðŸ˜­ Absolutely disgusted by that ðŸ˜¡ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Wash your mouth out


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 27, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			See Mane going to ground again even before the Spurs player makes contact. 

He is easily the worst cheat in the league.
		
Click to expand...

Start a top 5


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well certainly is a good game - Spurs GK having a blinder at the moment with some great saves , got to get a goal back early in the second half , very sharp from Kane to react
		
Click to expand...

We're going for a classic away performance, give away niggly fouls to break up play and hit long balls. I don't mind it if it works but it will be tough to keep that going for the full 90. Gazza has made some top saves as you say. Sissoko and Rose will have to make way with their yellow cards I think.


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 27, 2019)

Could be a lively debate later


----------



## Norrin Radd (Oct 27, 2019)

Watching the Liverpool game and Kane has just gone down holding his face like he had been hit with a baseball bat right under the linesman's nose,watching the replay he was barely touched .Do players not remember that every angle of every second of play is under very close scrutiny and play acting like Kane is just beyond words really as they are never going to get sympathy from the ref or crowd for acting like a total knob ,be it Kane or whoever.


----------



## Wolf (Oct 27, 2019)

And we've conceded a 2nd goal ðŸ™„
Only upside is the Spuds have also been pegged back


----------



## fundy (Oct 27, 2019)

Wolf said:



			And we've conceded a 2nd goal ðŸ™„
Only upside is the Spuds have also been pegged back
		
Click to expand...

Cant worry about them whilst were so bad 

I hear Xhaka ripped his shirt off and told the Arsenal fans to F*** Off when substituted

No class as well as being useless


----------



## Wolf (Oct 27, 2019)

fundy said:



			Cant worry about them whilst were so bad 

I hear Xhaka ripped his shirt off and told the Arsenal fans to F*** Off when substituted

No class as well as being useless
		
Click to expand...

I've been for giving Emery a chance all along but we're at a point now where he needs to work out what sort of identity the team is supposed to have an Xhaka as captain really isn't a good place to start. 

I don't rate Xhaka at all and of that's what he's done further proof he shouldn't be captain


----------



## fundy (Oct 27, 2019)

Wolf said:



			I've been for giving Emery a chance all along but we're at a point now where he needs to work out what sort of identity the team is supposed to have an Xhaka as captain really isn't a good place to start. 

I don't rate Xhaka at all and of that's what he's done further proof he shouldn't be captain
		
Click to expand...

#EmeryOut
#XhakaOut


----------



## fundy (Oct 27, 2019)

#VAROut


----------



## Jensen (Oct 27, 2019)

Aurier is a liability


----------



## Wolf (Oct 27, 2019)

fundy said:



			#VAROut
		
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more, another game decided by VAR instead of on the pitch ðŸ™„


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 27, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			See Mane going to ground again even before the Spurs player makes contact. 

He is easily the worst cheat in the league.
		
Click to expand...

Nope, Kane is by miles way out in front in that competition


----------



## Rlburnside (Oct 27, 2019)

Mistake to try and contain Liverpool and try to hold out for 0-1 , Liverpool were always going to score in the second half we looked a lot better when we went down 2-1 and played well then.
Aruier is a liability 

Deserved win for Liverpool but I would have liked us to be more positive.


----------



## davemc1 (Oct 27, 2019)




----------



## anotherdouble (Oct 27, 2019)

1st full premiship game I have seen for a long time. i Didnâ€™t realise how poor spurs are. Eriksen, Ali are terrible. No interest and no idea. Losing and bring Mura on with 10 to go and make another change with minutes to go. Thought Spurs were up and coming title contenders. On that showing and what I have read this season Arsenal might win it before them and what I have read about them this past 18 months it wonâ€™t happen for a very long time. Am so pleased I have converted to proper football, non league


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 27, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Aurier is a liability
		
Click to expand...

How stupid was it to sell Trips and not bring in a decent right back. I have lost count of the number of stupid decisions Aurier has made that have cost us points now. I was looking at Lovren's presence in the Liverpool side as a chance for us, but Aurier is far worse.

Fair play though, at least we actually performed much better than we have against Brighton, Watford etc. If only Son's chance had been a foot lower it could have been a different game.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 27, 2019)

anotherdouble said:



			1st full premiship game I have seen for a long time. i Didnâ€™t realise how poor spurs are. Eriksen, Ali are terrible. No interest and no idea. Losing and bring Mura on with 10 to go and make another change with minutes to go. Thought Spurs were up and coming title contenders. On that showing and what I have read this season Arsenal might win it before them and what I have read about them this past 18 months it wonâ€™t happen for a very long time. Am so pleased I have converted to proper football, non league
		
Click to expand...

That was the best we've played in ages lol. In fairness the title contenders ship has long since sailed.


----------



## chrisd (Oct 27, 2019)

Good old VAR ðŸ˜‹ðŸ˜‹ðŸ˜‹


----------



## adam6177 (Oct 27, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Nope, Kane is by miles way out in front in that competition
		
Click to expand...

That's a little unfair, Danny Rose makes Kane look an honest player.


----------



## Jensen (Oct 27, 2019)

Roy Keane has just beautifully summed up Aurier - "He's a car crash" ðŸ‘


----------



## fundy (Oct 27, 2019)

If Guendoozi doesnt make it as a footballer he should try rugby based on his last minute "tackle" on Zaha lol


----------



## adam6177 (Oct 27, 2019)

Sounds like absolute scenes at arsenal... Xhaka subbed and booed off by the home fans who he then clashes with. Then a winner ruled out by VAR despite it looking like a good goal.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 27, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Roy Keane has just beautifully summed up Aurier - "He's a car crash" ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

He even looked like he'd recovered and won the ball back and still managed to poo the bed. I'm sick of looking at him. Start Foyth, KWP, Sissoko at RB, literally anyone.


----------



## Rlburnside (Oct 27, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			How stupid was it to sell Trips and not bring in a decent right back. I have lost count of the number of stupid decisions Aurier has made that have cost us points now. I was looking at Lovren's presence in the Liverpool side as a chance for us, but Aurier is far worse.

Fair play though, at least we actually performed much better than we have against Brighton, Watford etc. If only Son's chance had been a foot lower it could have been a different game.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s not just Auriers defensive mistakes , and thereâ€™s been far to many but his crosses are poor also, although Trips had a poor season last year it does look like a mistake to let him go. 

Sons miss was a shame but we were to negative in the second half, look how well we played when come out and played.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 27, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			Itâ€™s not just Auriers defensive mistakes , and thereâ€™s been far to many but his crosses are poor also, although Trips had a poor season last year it does look like a mistake to let him go.

Sons miss was a shame but we were to negative in the second half, look how well we played when come out and played.
		
Click to expand...

I didn't really have a problem with how we played. Liverpool are an exceptional side after all. A point would have been great. You don't go from our recent form to managing to outplay Liverpool on their patch.

Funnily enough I felt we missed Lamela. He got a knock apparently, I reckon he would have started in Eriksen's place. He loves a battling game like that.


----------



## Rlburnside (Oct 27, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I didn't really have a problem with how we played. Liverpool are an exceptional side after all. A point would have been great. You don't go from our recent form to managing to outplay Liverpool on their patch.

Funnily enough I felt we missed Lamela. He got a knock apparently, I reckon he would have started in Eriksen's place. He loves a battling game like that.
		
Click to expand...

Granted we played better than recent league games but we rode our luck a lot and put to much pressure on ourselves. 

Always hard going to Liverpool but itâ€™s rare a team goes to Anfield and hang on to 0-1 for most of the game, I always thought we were going to lose second half playing so deep enjoyed our play when we went down 2-1


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 27, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			Sounds like absolute scenes at arsenal... Xhaka subbed and booed off by the home fans who he then clashes with. Then a winner ruled out by VAR despite it looking like a good goal.
		
Click to expand...

Some fans were booing our club captain as he was subbed off, shameful and embarrassing behaviour. 

These â€œfansâ€ ought to go not Xhaka.


----------



## Wolf (Oct 27, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Some fans were booing our club captain as he was subbed off, shameful and embarrassing behaviour. 

These â€œfansâ€ ought to go not Xhaka.
		
Click to expand...

People pay their money to go and watch and have a right to express their feelings if dissatisfied. If a guy earning 100k a week can't accept that his performance throughout the season has been poor and the fans are displaying feeling toward that especially as captain of the club he should be man enough to to keep his head up and speak to the fans through the correct media channels, not behave not a petulant child.


----------



## fundy (Oct 27, 2019)

Wolf said:



			People pay their money to go and watch and have a right to express their feelings if dissatisfied. If a guy earning 100k a week can't accept that his performance throughout the season has been poor and the fans are displaying feeling toward that especially as captain of the club he should be man enough to to keep his head up and speak to the fans through the correct media channels, not behave not a petulant child.
		
Click to expand...


Its funny seeing your post and not who or what youre replying to but Im almost certain i can guess which troll it is and what theyre saying lol

This theory that fans who pay a stupid about of money to watch football dont have the right to boo a player earning over 100k a week of their money doesnt make any sense whatsoever


----------



## anotherdouble (Oct 27, 2019)

fundy said:



			Its funny seeing your post and not who or what youre replying to but Im almost certain i can guess which troll it is and what theyre saying lol

This theory that fans who pay a stupid about of money to watch football dont have the right to boo a player earning over 100k a week of their money doesnt make any sense whatsoever
		
Click to expand...

Very astute of you sirðŸ‘


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 27, 2019)

Wolf said:



			People pay their money to go and watch and have a right to express their feelings if dissatisfied. If a guy earning 100k a week can't accept that his performance throughout the season has been poor and the fans are displaying feeling toward that especially as captain of the club he should be man enough to to keep his head up and speak to the fans through the correct media channels, not behave not a petulant child.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but thatâ€™s ignorant and yobbish behaviour whether you are more paying to watch or not. 

itâ€™s a tiny minority which proves my point really, decent people just wouldnâ€™t behave like that.


----------



## Slime (Oct 27, 2019)

Krul was magnificent today for Norwich, however ................................ when United were taking their first penalty Krul was so far off his line that I thought he'd get to the ball before Rashford!
I thought 'keepers had to stay on their line until the ball has been struck.
Does VAR not cover this?


----------



## paddyc (Oct 27, 2019)

Didnt see the game but didnt surprise  me Arsenal let a 2 goal lead slip. my mates a palace fan and at 2-0 i said dont worry we will let u back in the game Can blame VAR as much as you like but doesnt paper over cracks. concern is that Emery looks out of his depth and the board will let this happen season after season just like Wenger.  Should have gone after Klopp but didnt and liverpool snapoed him up should have tempted Rogers from Celtic and look at him now.


----------



## anotherdouble (Oct 27, 2019)

paddyc said:



			Didnt see the game but didnt surprise  me Arsenal let a 2 goal lead slip. my mates a palace fan and at 2-0 i said dont worry we will let u back in the game *Can blame VAR as much as you like but doesnt paper over cracks. concern is that Emery looks out of his depth and the board will let this happen season after season just like Wenger.  Should have gone after Klopp but didnt and liverpool snapoed him up should have tempted Rogers from Celtic and look at him now*.
		
Click to expand...

I am afraid thatâ€™s what can happen when you have a weak and what appears to be a dis-interested board


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 27, 2019)

Enjoyed the game today 

Even when we went down early there didnâ€™t seem to be much panic and it was a case of when and not if we scored and then went ahead

Fullbacks were superb today and Mane keeps showing why Messi rates him highly ðŸ˜† world class player but one player he wonâ€™t get any headline is Fabinho - real composure in the middle 

As for Spurs - itâ€™s just not right there is it , Alli , Erikson look like they want to be elsewhere - Son looks very frustrated having to play second fiddle to Kane and he is too good for that , Rose has gone backwards so much and as for Aurier ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ why did they let Trippier leave ?

At least the two CBâ€™s look quality as well as the GK.

I thought Spurs would be safe in CL this year but they need to improve and sort out their issues quickly or they will be nowhere near


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 27, 2019)

Funny how a win can change things. United suddenly up to 7th and 3 points behind Arsenal. No idea what is happening at there but never good to give a two goal lead up and the fans clearly not happy. Liverpool keep rolling on


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Enjoyed the game today

Even when we went down early there didnâ€™t seem to be much panic and it was a case of when and not if we scored and then went ahead

Fullbacks were superb today and Mane keeps showing why Messi rates him highly ðŸ˜† world class player but one player he wonâ€™t get any headline is Fabinho - real composure in the middle

As for Spurs - itâ€™s just not right there is it , Alli , Erikson look like they want to be elsewhere - Son looks very frustrated having to play second fiddle to Kane and he is too good for that , Rose has gone backwards so much and as for Aurier ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ why did they let Trippier leave ?

At least the two CBâ€™s look quality as well as the GK.

I thought Spurs would be safe in CL this year but they need to improve and sort out their issues quickly or they will be nowhere near
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™m sure youâ€™ll get a bite soon Phil,then the thread will all be about Liverpool. then you can say â€œoh look everyoneâ€™s talking about â€œusâ€ again ðŸ™„


----------



## fundy (Oct 27, 2019)

just seen the foul Chambers "committed" for the winner to be overturned in slow motion, oh my lol


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 27, 2019)

fundy said:



			just seen the foul Chambers "committed" for the winner to be overturned in slow motion, oh my lol
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s laughable - truely laughable , even the Zaha incident , yep the leg is there but Zaha has swan dived over that made that penalty 

And the disallowed goal ?!?! WTF - speechless - just get rid of VAR right now itâ€™s ruining the game


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 27, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			See Mane going to ground again even before the Spurs player makes contact. 

He is easily the worst cheat in the league.
		
Click to expand...

FFS.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 27, 2019)

Sometimes football can get it right https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-50199672


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 27, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I didn't really have a problem with how we played. Liverpool are an exceptional side after all. A point would have been great. You don't go from our recent form to managing to outplay Liverpool on their patch.

Funnily enough I felt we missed Lamela. He got a knock apparently, I reckon he would have started in Eriksen's place. He loves a battling game like that.
		
Click to expand...

Ericsson didnâ€™t help Aurier much.
He looked like he dosnt want to be there.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 27, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Some fans were booing our club captain as he was subbed off, shameful and embarrassing behaviour.

These â€œfansâ€ ought to go not Xhaka.
		
Click to expand...

Are you sure you are actually a football fan.?
You post some s....e.


----------



## Jensen (Oct 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Enjoyed the game today

Even when we went down early there didnâ€™t seem to be much panic and it was a case of when and not if we scored and then went ahead

Fullbacks were superb today and Mane keeps showing why Messi rates him highly ðŸ˜† world class player but one player he wonâ€™t get any headline is Fabinho - real composure in the middle

As for Spurs - itâ€™s just not right there is it , Alli , Erikson look like they want to be elsewhere - Son looks very frustrated having to play second fiddle to Kane and he is too good for that , Rose has gone backwards so much and as for Aurier ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ why did they let Trippier leave ?

At least the two CBâ€™s look quality as well as the GK.

I thought Spurs would be safe in CL this year but they need to improve and sort out their issues quickly or they will be nowhere near
		
Click to expand...

I bet you wouldn't of been that confident if Son's attempt had gone in


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 27, 2019)

Glad to come out on top in the worst divers top of the league clash today.

How Mane didnt stay on his feet as Aurier tickled the back of both calves, I'll never know.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 27, 2019)

Jensen said:



			I bet you wouldn't of been that confident if Son's attempt had gone in
		
Click to expand...

Different game if he scores there.
No need to hit it so hard all he needed was on target.

Thought our finishing made the keeper look good at times.
Tactics from spurs were good but wasnâ€™t going to work for 90mins, they played on TAA and got some joy as his defending needs work, but going forward the lads pure class.
Tough game for us but we deserved to win.
Think we still need a Playmaker in the middle for when teams sit back like this.

Spurs played really well last 15 mins so canâ€™t understand sitting back so much.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 27, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Glad to come out on top in the worst divers top of the league clash today.

How Mane didnt stay on his feet as Aurier tickled the back of both calves, I'll never know.
		
Click to expand...

Quite clearly shows on VAR that he blows on the back of his neck as well!!


----------



## Wolf (Oct 27, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Sorry but thatâ€™s ignorant and yobbish behaviour whether you are more paying to watch or not. 

itâ€™s a tiny minority which proves my point really, decent people just wouldnâ€™t behave like that.
		
Click to expand...

Absolute drivel... Booing someone does not equate to being ignorant or yobbish. Should people just say well done old chap we know your crap but at least you tried incase they hurt his feelings for continuingly underperforming.. 

Had it been racist or xenophobic chanting then you would have a very valid point, but as for expressing feeling for crap performance you're way off, especially when that large salary is funded by the proceeds the fans put in through game day purchases and more then they're entitled to express feeling. .


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 27, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Tash, I hate VAR but your goal was offside, Silva touched it and admitted so. You benefitted from a wrong decision.
As for the Rugby, there was a debate they got a decision wrong, the difference is the fact they accept it.
		
Click to expand...

I know we did, but it is still rammel. It is killing the enjoyment of the game. It is wrong for so many reasons


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 27, 2019)

Emery aside, Xhaka aside, poor performance aside, VAR is terrible. If it is supposed to right the wrongs, get the decisions correct, it just doesn't. I thought I would be in favour, I am not.


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 27, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Emery aside, Xhaka aside, poor performance aside, VAR is terrible. If it is supposed to right the wrongs, get the decisions correct, it just doesn't. I thought I would be in favour, I am not.
		
Click to expand...

Ave just seen the arsenal goal overruled with VAR. That is exactly what am on about. 2 mins of complete and utter shoite. It was exactly the same at City yesterday. 2 massively  wrong decisions. At least when a ref got it wrong, the game continued. If this crap continues ave bought me last season ticket.


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 27, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			You can quite clearly see Silva show the ref where he touched the ball on his boot.
That was before the VAR decision.
So the ref asks var is Sterling offside when Silva  deflects the ball â€œYES.â€
â€œOk itâ€™s offsideâ€ 30 seconds max.

But Var decided Silva didnâ€™t touch the ball ,even though he admitted he did.
Thatâ€™s why KDB was credited with the goal.

Knobs.
		
Click to expand...

Thing is though the ref is not allowed to inform the VAR panel what Silva actually said. It's got to a stage where you cannot celebrate a goal as you should. City fans let everyone know exactly what there thoughts are on VAR, even though they got a wrong decision.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 27, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Emery aside, Xhaka aside, poor performance aside, VAR is terrible. If it is supposed to right the wrongs, get the decisions correct, it just doesn't. I thought I would be in favour, I am not.
		
Click to expand...

How did Glendousi not get red for that rugby tackle.


----------



## fundy (Oct 27, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			How did Glendousi not get red for that rugby tackle.
		
Click to expand...


posted about it earlier, kids got a future at 9 for Les Bleus lol. In fairness I think we prob deserved some leeway by the officials by then....


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 27, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Thing is though the ref is not allowed to inform the VAR panel what Silva actually said. It's got to a stage where you cannot celebrate a goal as you should. City fans let everyone know exactly what there thoughts are on VAR, even though they got a wrong decision.
		
Click to expand...

But dosnt the ref have the final say.
If he knows Silva touched it and Sterling is offside he bottled it.
Itâ€™s so poor


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 27, 2019)

fundy said:



			posted about it earlier, kids got a future at 9 for Les Bleus lol. In fairness I think we prob deserved some leeway by the officials by then....
		
Click to expand...

I donâ€™t.
Someone does that next week heâ€™s off.
Poor from the ref imo.


----------



## davemc1 (Oct 27, 2019)

anotherdouble said:



			1st full premiship game I have seen for a long time. i Didnâ€™t realise how poor spurs are. Eriksen, Ali are terrible. No interest and no idea. Losing and bring Mura on with 10 to go and make another change with minutes to go. Thought Spurs were up and coming title contenders. On that showing and what I have read this season Arsenal might win it before them and what I have read about them this past 18 months it wonâ€™t happen for a very long time. Am so pleased I have converted to proper football, non league
		
Click to expand...

Donâ€™t start pooing your pants just as the reds are coming good bro ðŸ˜


----------



## davemc1 (Oct 27, 2019)

That lpool result didnâ€™t half BRIGHTON up my day...


----------



## davemc1 (Oct 27, 2019)

They have Alli, I just do think itâ€™s setting in... 

Never has a guy lived on 1 goal since Gazaâ€™s free kick...


----------



## anotherdouble (Oct 28, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Donâ€™t start pooing your pants just as the reds are coming good bro ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

My pants are good ladðŸ˜œðŸ‘


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 28, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Absolute drivel... Booing someone does not equate to being ignorant or yobbish. Should people just say well done old chap we know your crap but at least you tried incase they hurt his feelings for continuingly underperforming..

Had it been racist or xenophobic chanting then you would have a very valid point, but as for expressing feeling for crap performance you're way off, especially when that large salary is funded by the proceeds the fans put in through game day purchases and more then they're entitled to express feeling. .
		
Click to expand...

You have to be a cretin to boo,  mock and ridicule your own team members as they are subbed off. 

Itâ€™s ok to look at things differently though so I respect your opinion. If you are happy with that itâ€™s fine but itâ€™s not something I have ever done or will ever likely to do.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 28, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Emery aside, Xhaka aside, poor performance aside, VAR is terrible. If it is supposed to right the wrongs, get the decisions correct, it just doesn't. I thought I would be in favour, I am not.
		
Click to expand...


Until this weekend around 90 penalties have been checked by VAR this year and each time they have gone with the referees decision.

It seems obvious that VAR donâ€™t want to contradict the referee at all cost. Probably the old guard refs looking after their own.

The VAR concept is sound but the execution sucks.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 28, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			FFS.
		
Click to expand...

Can you actually see properly through those red specs?

Iâ€™m not talking about the penalty, Iâ€™m talking about the dive Mane took on the edge of the box for the free kick. Clearly on his way down before any contact is made.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 28, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Can you actually see properly through those red specs?

Iâ€™m not talking about the penalty, Iâ€™m talking about the dive Mane took on the edge of the box for the free kick. Clearly on his way down before any contact is made.
		
Click to expand...

And yet you ignore the 4x2 Kane took to the face and the unpunished dive by Ericsson?
Perhaps youâ€™re just fixated with Mane.
Just how did Arsenal do btw?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 28, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50203297 

VAR definitely not working


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 28, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			And yet you ignore the 4x2 Kane took to the face and the unpunished dive by Ericsson?
Perhaps youâ€™re just fixated with Mane.
Just how did Arsenal do btw?
		
Click to expand...

A disappointing draw at home but palace are doing OK and these derby games are never easy. Still positive about Emery because itâ€™s still very early days.

I donâ€™t want to talk about Mane but he  makes himself a talking point. Heâ€™s a fantastic footballer but I just wished that he would stop his cheating antics. same goes for Kane, Lacazette, et al.

Nobody wants to see that and nobody wants a team to win points that way.


----------



## MegaSteve (Oct 28, 2019)

I can see me jumping on the bus to Stockley sometime soon... Think there's a few there in need of being reminded of their duty to the game...


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 28, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Can you actually see properly through those red specs?

Iâ€™m not talking about the penalty, Iâ€™m talking about the dive Mane took on the edge of the box for the free kick. Clearly on his way down before any contact is made.
		
Click to expand...

I think the lenses have fallen out of yours.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 28, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			A disappointing draw at home but palace are doing OK and these derby games are never easy. Still positive about Emery because itâ€™s still very early days.

I donâ€™t want to talk about Mane but he  makes himself a talking point. Heâ€™s a fantastic footballer but I just wished that he would stop his cheating antics. same goes for Kane, Lacazette, et al.

Nobody wants to see that and nobody wants a team to win points that way.
		
Click to expand...

What about Glendousi rugby tackle at least Mane is a footballer.
Sorry you donâ€™t want to talk about Mane ( just every game).


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 28, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			I can see me jumping on the bus to Stockley sometime soon... Think there's a few there in need of being reminded of their duty to the game...
		
Click to expand...

Some ex players might fancy the job !
They at least know the difference in a tackle or a trip.
The Arsenal one was a 50/50 fighting for the ball.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 28, 2019)

10 games have passed and now we're allowed to talk about the league ðŸ˜

Jurgen's tricky reds are the real deal. The klopp Express rolls on choo choo....


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 28, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Some fans were booing our club captain as he was subbed off, shameful and embarrassing behaviour.

These â€œfansâ€ ought to go not Xhaka.
		
Click to expand...

I agree with this. Booing and jeering your own player nevermind captain whose being subbed  is unacceptable. I've never done it but I've heard it and I've always felt uncomfortable hearing it at the match.

Xhaka needs to take responsibility too, telling the crowd to f off again is a no no.

Just because you pay to go the game it doesnt allow or justify anyone booing g there own imo.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 28, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



*And yet you ignore the 4x2 Kane took to the face *and the unpunished dive by Ericsson?
Perhaps youâ€™re just fixated with Mane.
Just how did Arsenal do btw?
		
Click to expand...


That was right in front of me, I can only assume the lino was too close to what was a blatant dive. It seems the English lads get away with it though.


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 28, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			You have to be a cretin to boo,  mock and ridicule your own team members as they are subbed off.

Itâ€™s ok to look at things differently though so I respect your opinion. If you are happy with that itâ€™s fine but itâ€™s not something I have ever done or will ever likely to do.
		
Click to expand...

Gotta say ST they showed a clip of him last night on MOTD. If I had paid to watch his performance I would of been booing as well he was atrocious. As a central midfielder he was just not showing for the ball. If as a captain that is the example he is setting. Well he has reaped what he has sown. Like Wenger the Arsenal fans will be there long after he has gone. One thing fans in general do like is some one who tries. Or as they say, puts a shift in. He didn't.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 28, 2019)

You guys are bloody obsessed with diving now, it's bordering on insanity. Mane was fouled by Aurier for the penalty, plain as day. Kane was caught in the face by Lovren so he went down. I have no idea what incident Bunkermagnet was referring to with Eriksen, as I don't remember him even going down. It's got to the point where you guys are incensed every time anybody goes down, it's getting out of hand. Players go down sometimes when there's contact, if you can't accept that then you might as well stop watching football now as that's not going to change, and you'll just get yourselves all worked up again.


----------



## Wolf (Oct 28, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Gotta say ST they showed a clip of him last night on MOTD. If I had paid to watch his performance I would of been booing as well he was atrocious. As a central midfielder he was just not showing for the ball. If as a captain that is the example he is setting. Well he has reaped what he has sown. Like Wenger the Arsenal fans will be there long after he has gone. One thing fans in general do like is some one who tries. Or as they say, puts a shift in. He didn't.
		
Click to expand...

Think some people are to precious to accept that some players don't deserve praise. He didn't show he wanted the ball on so many occasions when he had space he backed himself into spaces where he took himself out of the game. Applied no effort in the rest of pitch and we're supposed to say that's ok we won't show our frustration, some fans clearly willing to accept mediocrity, and then stating a game like Palace is a hard Derby game. We're meant to be a top 4 contender to be that whether Palace are playing well or not a top team should be expecting to beat them at home. If he got booed off then he has only himself to blame and with his reaction should be stripped of the captaincy and dropped.

As for the Mane conversation on here today, Aurier kicked him in the back of the leg and he went down, that's a penalty in anyone's book. Then there's Guendouzi imo even as a fan lucky to only get a yellow for what would've been a high tackle even in Rugby


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 28, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Think some people are to precious to accept that some players don't dereve praise. He didn't show he wanted the ball on so many occasions when he had space he backed himself into spaces where he took himself out of the game. Applied no effort in the rest of pitch and we're supposed to say that's ok we won't show our frustration, some fans clearly willing to accept mediocrity, and then stating a game like Palace is a hard Derby game. We're meant to be a top 4 contender to be that whether Palace are playing well or not a top team should be expecting to beat them at home. If he got booed off then he has only himself to blame and with his reaction should be stripped of the captaincy and dropped.

As for the Mane conversation on here today, Aurier kicked him in the back of the leg and he went down, that's a penalty in anyone's book. Then there's Guendouzi imo even as a fan lucky to only get a yellow for what would've been a high tackle even in Rugby
		
Click to expand...

Looked to me like he was hiding.
He always kept a player between him and the ball so the CB could not find him.
Thatâ€™s not good from the captain.
The fans reaction was OTT but they pay their money they are entitled to their opinion.
The manager has to sort him out, once the fans and player react like this I would think he should move on.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 28, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Some ex players might fancy the job !
They at least know the difference in a tackle or a trip.
The Arsenal one was a 50/50 fighting for the ball.
		
Click to expand...

Which ex-players? If it is a striker then they will tell you 'you are allowed to go down after contact'? If a defender are they okay with a shirt pull as long as the shirt doesn't get ripped? When you listen to pundits after games it goes through me at times.

There will always be differences of opinions on these, frustrating though it is.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 28, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Which ex-players? If it is a striker then they will tell you 'you are allowed to go down after contact'? If a defender are they okay with a shirt pull as long as the shirt doesn't get ripped? When you listen to pundits after games it goes through me at times.

There will always be differences of opinions on these, frustrating though it is.
		
Click to expand...

Yes agree but I find myself agreeing with the pundits more than the referee these days.
There is no perfect answer.
Maybe VAR should have 
1 a referee 
2 retired striker.
3 retired defender/ midfielder.

Just imagine how long that would take to sort a decision out.
Itâ€™s just not working properly atm.


----------



## Rlburnside (Oct 28, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Think some people are to precious to accept that some players don't deserve praise. He didn't show he wanted the ball on so many occasions when he had space he backed himself into spaces where he took himself out of the game. Applied no effort in the rest of pitch and we're supposed to say that's ok we won't show our frustration, some fans clearly willing to accept mediocrity, and then stating a game like Palace is a hard Derby game. We're meant to be a top 4 contender to be that whether Palace are playing well or not a top team should be expecting to beat them at home. If he got booed off then he has only himself to blame and with his reaction should be stripped of the captaincy and dropped.

As for the Mane conversation on here today, Aurier kicked him in the back of the leg and he went down, that's a penalty in anyone's book. Then there's Guendouzi imo even as a fan lucky to only get a yellow for what would've been a high tackle even in Rugby
		
Click to expand...

Amazed Guendouzi didnâ€™t get sent off for that , reminded me of the time Emlyn Hughes made his debut for Liverpool, some older Liverpool fans might correct me on this but what I can remember his father told him to do something on the pitch to stand out, so a player went past him and he just done a rugby tackle on him. ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 28, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes agree but I find myself agreeing with the pundits more than the referee these days.
There is no perfect answer.
Maybe VAR should have
1 a referee
2 retired striker.
3 retired defender/ midfielder.

Just imagine how long that would take to sort a decision out.
Itâ€™s just not working properly atm.
		
Click to expand...

I think that makes a good deal of sense. 

I have a feeling that is how the panel in rugby league works for post match decisions, ie retrospective cards. I don't think it happens on match day though.


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 28, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Think some people are to precious to accept that some players don't deserve praise. He didn't show he wanted the ball on so many occasions when he had space he backed himself into spaces where he took himself out of the game. Applied no effort in the rest of pitch and we're supposed to say that's ok we won't show our frustration, some fans clearly willing to accept mediocrity, and then stating a game like Palace is a hard Derby game. We're meant to be a top 4 contender to be that whether Palace are playing well or not a top team should be expecting to beat them at home. If he got booed off then he has only himself to blame and with his reaction should be stripped of the captaincy and dropped.

As for the Mane conversation on here today, Aurier kicked him in the back of the leg and he went down, that's a penalty in anyone's book. Then there's Guendouzi imo even as a fan lucky to only get a yellow for what would've been a high tackle even in Rugby
		
Click to expand...

deffo a penalty and re the Guendouzi foul, i thought you had signed Fernandinho for a minute. But The palace player was away, if Palace had scored. think the arsenal lot would of gone bezerk.


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 28, 2019)

Where do you start with VAR, from the outset it has been crap. Why to god no one went to Rugby Union for there opinion is beyond me. It should been brought in for offside and penalties for say a season. Then iron out little things. like offside by a finger or hand, eh, offside with something you cannot score with. hows that right. iron it out.THe following season bring in other things like diving etc. But now VAR is looked at for every goal. It is killing the "beautiful game". 
There are screens at the side of the pitch. Not one ref has used them. Why, Why are they there then.
The fans at the game are kept in the dark, why?
The referees that made mistakes last year are the same ones making the same mistakes this year with VAR, WHY?

Yesterday there was stonking game between spurs and Liverpool, hardly any posts about it. its a bloody football thread not VAR referee thread. i got up at 07.30 to watch a game. got back in at 6.00pm and all that was talked about was that shower of crap VAR


----------



## 4LEX (Oct 28, 2019)

What has happened to Dele Alli? Can he try harder not to make a pass or look less interested?



MegaSteve said:



			I can see me jumping on the bus to Stockley sometime soon... Think there's a few there in need of being reminded of their duty to the game...
		
Click to expand...

Golf course there too. You can fire a few drives into the VAR building as the course is horrific


----------



## 4LEX (Oct 28, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Where do you start with VAR, from the outset it has been crap. Why to god no one went to Rugby Union for there opinion is beyond me. It should been brought in for offside and penalties for say a season. Then iron out little things. like offside by a finger or hand, eh, offside with something you cannot score with. hows that right. iron it out.THe following season bring in other things like diving etc. But now VAR is looked at for every goal. It is killing the "beautiful game".
There are screens at the side of the pitch. Not one ref has used them. Why, Why are they there then.
The fans at the game are kept in the dark, why?
The referees that made mistakes last year are the same ones making the same mistakes this year with VAR, WHY?

Yesterday there was stonking game between spurs and Liverpool, hardly any posts about it. its a bloody football thread not VAR referee thread. i got up at 07.30 to watch a game. got back in at 6.00pm and all that was talked about was that shower of crap VAR
		
Click to expand...

It's absolutely ridiculous and putting me off watching games. It takes away the moment - which is fair enough for a clear mistake but not for the opinion of a jumped up nomark sat in a studio trying to name a name for himself. It's killing the already bad atmosphere in grounds as no one can cheer properly as every goal is VAR reviewed and then the second cheer is worthless.

Having a debate about the ref after a bad decision was part of the game, now the talk is about a studio outside London more than the actual game. 

Sky might as well have a VAR cam and show footage from there and give the games a miss.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 28, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Gotta say ST they showed a clip of him last night on MOTD. If I had paid to watch his performance I would of been booing as well he was atrocious. As a central midfielder he was just not showing for the ball. If as a captain that is the example he is setting. Well he has reaped what he has sown. Like Wenger the Arsenal fans will be there long after he has gone. One thing fans in general do like is some one who tries. Or as they say, puts a shift in. He didn't.
		
Click to expand...

Xhaka does put a shift in. Do you seriously think that any manager would tolerate that behaviour?

Same S@@t was levelled at Ozil and it was scientifically proven that he covered more km in a game than most.


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 28, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Think some people are to precious to accept that some players don't deserve praise. He didn't show he wanted the ball on so many occasions when he had space he backed himself into spaces where he took himself out of the game. Applied no effort in the rest of pitch and we're supposed to say that's ok we won't show our frustration, some fans clearly willing to accept mediocrity, and then stating a game like Palace is a hard Derby game. We're meant to be a top 4 contender to be that whether Palace are playing well or not a top team should be expecting to beat them at home. If he got booed off then he has only himself to blame and with his reaction should be stripped of the captaincy and dropped.

As for the Mane conversation on here today, Aurier kicked him in the back of the leg and he went down, that's a penalty in anyone's book. Then there's Guendouzi imo even as a fan lucky to only get a yellow for what would've been a high tackle even in Rugby
		
Click to expand...

I donâ€™t think anyone is saying Mane dived for the penalty keep up.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 28, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			You guys are bloody obsessed with diving now, it's bordering on insanity. Mane was fouled by Aurier for the penalty, plain as day.* Kane was caught in the face by Lovren so he went down*. I have no idea what incident Bunkermagnet was referring to with Eriksen, as I don't remember him even going down. It's got to the point where you guys are incensed every time anybody goes down, it's getting out of hand. Players go down sometimes when there's contact, if you can't accept that then you might as well stop watching football now as that's not going to change, and you'll just get yourselves all worked up again. 

Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1188534424750743553
ðŸ¤”

And I believe Sawtooth is talking about when Mane went past two of their players and then got clipped on his heel bringing him down in the first half for a free kick just outside the box - he was clipped knocking him off balance.

Mane goes down too easily at times , so does Salah and they both get pelters from the media - Kane is one of the worst ( just look at his reaction to Lovren ) but it appears he is ignored by the English media


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 28, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1188534424750743553
ðŸ¤”

And I believe Sawtooth is talking about when Mane went past two of their players and then got clipped on his heel bringing him down in the first half for a free kick just outside the box - he was clipped knocking him off balance.

Mane goes down too easily at times , so does Salah and they both get pelters from the media - Kane is one of the worst ( just look at his reaction to Lovren ) *but it appears he is ignored by the English media*

Click to expand...

Not surprised with our Xnephobic press.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 28, 2019)

Not sure why you sent the video, I saw it yesterday - that's foul by Lovren, you can't put your hand across someone's face.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 28, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Not sure why you sent the video, I saw it yesterday - that's foul by Lovren, you can't put your hand across someone's face.
		
Click to expand...

Watch the video a bit more carefully then  - he hardly if at all touched his face yet Kane went down as if Mike Tyson had laid on him - he dived , simulated , made the most of the slightest if any touch. If that was Salah or Mane or indeed any Foriegn player in another time then it would be headlines


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 28, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Where do you start with VAR, from the outset it has been crap. Why to god no one went to Rugby Union for there opinion is beyond me. It should been brought in for offside and penalties for say a season. Then iron out little things. like offside by a finger or hand, eh, offside with something you cannot score with. hows that right. iron it out.THe following season bring in other things like diving etc. But now VAR is looked at for every goal. It is killing the "beautiful game".
There are screens at the side of the pitch. Not one ref has used them. Why, Why are they there then.
The fans at the game are kept in the dark, why?
The referees that made mistakes last year are the same ones making the same mistakes this year with VAR, WHY?

Yesterday there was stonking game between spurs and Liverpool, hardly any posts about it. its a bloody football thread not VAR referee thread. i got up at 07.30 to watch a game. got back in at 6.00pm and all that was talked about was that shower of crap VAR
		
Click to expand...

Easy sorted mate, let the Referees ref, accept there will be errors, keep VAR and give each Manager a maximum 3 VAR reviews per match.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 28, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Watch the video a bit more carefully then  - he hardly if at all touched his face yet Kane went down as if Mike Tyson had laid on him - he dived , simulated , made the most of the slightest if any touch. If that was Salah or Mane or indeed any Foriegn player in another time then it would be headlines
		
Click to expand...

Who cares? It's a foul by Lovren so Kane goes down. This is what I was saying earlier, people are getting obsessed with players' reactions but a foul has been committed there. It's not a 'dive'. If you're fouled you can go down, or stop still and appeal, and leave it up to the ref to make a decision - or you can try and stay on your feet and pursue the ball, but knowing that your opportunity may have gone. I really don't know why people get their knickers in a twist about it. And that's not me defending Kane, I have been consistent and said the same about Mane and Salah in the past. The only relevant factor is whether there was illegal contact sufficient enough to impede his progress. If the player goes down and the ref decides there wasn't enough contact to cause that, then more fool him, he's lost out hasn't he? Why does there have to be a big hullabaloo about it?


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 28, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Xhaka does put a shift in. Do you seriously think that any manager would tolerate that behaviour?

Same S@@t was levelled at Ozil and it was scientifically proven that he covered more km in a game than most.
		
Click to expand...

Ave moved more at snap time


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 28, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Who cares? It's a foul by Lovren so Kane goes down. This is what I was saying earlier, people are getting obsessed with players' reactions but a foul has been committed there. It's not a 'dive'. If you're fouled you can go down, or stop still and appeal, and leave it up to the ref to make a decision. I really don't know why people get their knickers in a twist about it. And that's not me defending Kane, I have been consistent and said the same about Mane and Salah in the past. The only relevant factor is whether there was illegal contact sufficient enough to impede his progress. If the player goes down and the ref decides there wasn't enough contact to cause that, then more fool him, he's lost out hasn't he? Why does there have to be a big hullabaloo about it?
		
Click to expand...

Ok Kane faked that he is had been hit in the face , thatâ€™s a potential red card offence is it not ? Imagine if the ref had given a red card because Kane went down Like he did rolling around and clutching his face - big huge scream as well - he was acting to gain an advantage , itâ€™s borderline if it was even a foul.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Not surprised with our Xnephobic press.
		
Click to expand...

Is it any different to Origi against Utd?
He held the wrong leg didnâ€™t he?
Or Richarliason against Brighton?
He lay there holding his head but was pushed in the back.
Every, absolutely Every, team has players that do it mate.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 28, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ok Kane faked that he is had been hit in the face , thatâ€™s a potential red card offence is it not ? Imagine if the ref had given a red card because Kane went down Like he did rolling around and clutching his face - big huge scream as well - he was acting to gain an advantage , itâ€™s borderline if it was even a foul.
		
Click to expand...

What do you mean? You can see Lovren's hand hit his face can't you?? You're the one that sent the video, did you actually watch it?? If the ref had given Lovren a red card, it would be because he saw him catch Kane in the face with his hand. It would have been tremendously harsh, but I suspect they'd review it on VAR and adjust it just a yellow. It was absolutely a foul!


----------



## SteveW86 (Oct 28, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ok Kane faked that he is had been hit in the face , thatâ€™s a potential red card offence is it not ? Imagine if the ref had given a red card because Kane went down Like he did rolling around and clutching his face - big huge scream as well - he was acting to gain an advantage , itâ€™s borderline if it was even a foul.
		
Click to expand...

Surely the reliable VAR team would have looked at it then and said, no he has over reacted. Foul, yes but red card no. Or atleast thats maybe how VAR should work


----------



## Slime (Oct 28, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			What do you mean? You can see Lovren's hand hit his face can't you?? You're the one that sent the video, did you actually watch it?? If the ref had given Lovren a red card, it would be because he saw him catch Kane in the face with his hand. It would have been tremendously harsh, but I suspect they'd review it on VAR and adjust it just a yellow. It was absolutely a foul! 

Click to expand...

If you are going by the letter of the law I'd give Kane a free kick AND a yellow card. No card for Lovren.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 28, 2019)

Slime said:



			If you are going by the letter of the law I'd give Kane a free kick AND a yellow card. No card for Lovren.
		
Click to expand...

That doesn't make any sense.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 28, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			That doesn't make any sense. 

Click to expand...

Makes perfect sense 

Kane gets the free kick for Lovren pulling him back 

Kane then gets the yellow card for simulation for suggesting that Lovren hit him the face ( when the replay especially the second one shows that he didnâ€™t touch the face )

Kane faked being hit the face , he simulated , he screamed loudly and went down as if a boxer had landed a full blow onto the face - itâ€™s a form of cheating , but because itâ€™s Kane it doesnâ€™t get highlighted but he is close to be one of the worse for doing it in the Prem


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 28, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Makes perfect sense

Kane gets the free kick for Lovren pulling him back

Kane then gets the yellow card for simulation for suggesting that Lovren hit him the face ( when the replay especially the second one shows that he didnâ€™t touch the face )

Kane faked being hit the face , he simulated , he screamed loudly and went down as if a boxer had landed a full blow onto the face - itâ€™s a form of cheating , but because itâ€™s Kane it doesnâ€™t get highlighted but he is close to be one of the worse for doing it in the Prem
		
Click to expand...

I would say that not only is Lovren the worlds best defender, he must have the worlds hardest hands as that wipe of his hands across Kanes face did more harm than the elbow VVD got at a Liverpool corner, and all VVD did was sit and question why nothing from the ref.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 28, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			That doesn't make any sense. 

Click to expand...

Of course it doesnâ€™t, otherwise weâ€™d see a lot of players who are awarded penalties also being booked.

Time and time again on here we see arguments defending players going down in the box after theyâ€™ve been fouled saying if they didnâ€™t go down the Ref wouldnâ€™t of given the pen.

Also, who decides what the tolerance is for contact, what makes Bernard fall over when fouled maybe 10 times worse than that which would make Delph fall over.
What maybe a â€œtapâ€ to some maybe a â€œsmackâ€ to others.


----------



## Slime (Oct 28, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			That doesn't make any sense. 

Click to expand...

Why not?
Kane was fouled and gets the free kick but he was also guilty of simulation, (he dived, clutched his face and screamed like a gunshot victim), and therefore gets a yellow card.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 28, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Not sure why you sent the video, I saw it yesterday - that's foul by Lovren, you can't put your hand across someone's face.
		
Click to expand...

Lovren got a yellow card for that.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Is it any different to Origi against Utd?
He held the wrong leg didnâ€™t he?
Or Richarliason against Brighton?
He lay there holding his head but was pushed in the back.
Every, absolutely Every, team has players that do it mate.

Click to expand...

You're missing my point I think. English players who dive get less stick in the press than foreign players.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Lovren got a yellow card for that.
		
Click to expand...

Stu, you were there and it was close to you as you said, you got one look at it and came to a decision, thatâ€™s exactly what the Linesman got, he actually gave the decision and told the Ref a hand was raised, Iâ€™m not defending Kane and whether he went down easily or not, but this trial by Social Media is stupid. 
That offence would of only been reviewed if it had been a Red Card, I donâ€™t think we are being fair to Officials to get every decision correct, every time.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			You're missing my point I think. English players who dive get less stick in the press than foreign players.
		
Click to expand...

I know thatâ€™s your point, but I disagree, Kane is singled out by Reds when you play them.
Supporters of opposing teams often single out certain players.
Nobody more than Sterling over the years has took stick and there are plenty of other English players have been as well over the years.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Stu, you were there and it was close to you as you said, you got one look at it and came to a decision, thatâ€™s exactly what the Linesman got, he actually gave the decision and told the Ref a hand was raised, Iâ€™m not defending Kane and whether he went down easily or not, but this trial by Social Media is stupid.
That offence would of only been reviewed if it had been a Red Card, I donâ€™t think we are being fair to Officials to get every decision correct, every time.
		
Click to expand...

I had  a height  advantage, as I said earlier I think the liner was too close to the action. It's a foul but not a card. It's amazing how footballers lose their strength in certain areas of the pitch.

I agree the trial by social media in football is stupid. I also dont expect any ref to get every decision right. If kane goes down, he gets a free kick. Kanes reaction got Lovren booked.

I'm not moaning or complaining, it's just my opinion on the matter


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			I know thatâ€™s your point, but I disagree, Kane is singled out by Reds when you play them.
Supporters of opposing teams often single out certain players.
Nobody more than Sterling over the years has took stick and there are plenty of other English players have been as well over the years.
		
Click to expand...

We'll disagree ðŸ‘


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I had  a height  advantage, as I said earlier I think the liner was too close to the action. It's a foul but not a card. It's amazing how footballers lose their strength in certain areas of the pitch.

I agree the trial by social media in football is stupid. I also dont expect any ref to get every decision right. If kane goes down, he gets a free kick. Kanes reaction got Lovren booked.

I'm not moaning or complaining, it's just my opinion on the matter
		
Click to expand...

Never said you were moaning or complaining mate

The lino flagged for a foul, Lovren raised his arm, has the Ref got any choice, regardless of Kaneâ€™s reaction?


----------



## MegaSteve (Oct 28, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Xhaka does put a shift in. Do you seriously think that any manager would tolerate that behaviour?

Same S@@t was levelled at Ozil and it was scientifically proven that he covered more km in a game than most.
		
Click to expand...

Pretty pointless running around like a proverbial blue bottomed fly if there's no end product...
For me the only "cretin" was Xhaka himself responding in the manner he did... There was only one outcome from that... More folk joining in...


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Never said you were moaning or complaining mate

The lino flagged for a foul, Lovren raised his arm, has the Ref got any choice, regardless of Kaneâ€™s reaction?
		
Click to expand...

Ah the old "he raised his arm" chestnut. That yellow was based on Kanes reaction 100%

I was surprised at how Taylor reffed the game yesterday, he let plenty of niggly fouls to go on both sides but I was surprised he never booked Son for stopping a quick free kick being taken 3 times.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I had  a height  advantage, as I said earlier I think the liner was too close to the action. It's a foul but not a card. It's amazing how footballers lose their strength in certain areas of the pitch.

I agree the trial by social media in football is stupid. I also dont expect any ref to get every decision right. If kane goes down, he gets a free kick. Kanes reaction got Lovren booked.

I'm not moaning or complaining, it's just my opinion on the matter
		
Click to expand...

I agree about social media and only got worse since VAR. I also agree that sometimes a lino can be too close to actually see everything


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Ah the old "he raised his arm" chestnut. That yellow was based on Kanes reaction 100%

I was surprised at how Taylor reffed the game yesterday, he let plenty of niggly fouls to go on both sides but I was surprised he never booked Son for stopping a quick free kick being taken 3 times.
		
Click to expand...

The ref warned Kane to tell Son to stop it, instead of just booking him.
That obviously was a game plan.

Lovren got the same punishment as Glendousi for his assault on Saha. Joke.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 28, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I agree about social media and only got worse since VAR. I also agree that sometimes a lino can be too close to actually see everything
		
Click to expand...

VAR was designed for social Media and TV audiences.
It certainly wasnâ€™t designed for the match going fans.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			You're missing my point I think. English players who dive get less stick in the press than foreign players.
		
Click to expand...

exactly the point - Kane gets away with his antics because he is the England captain , if Mane was the one pretending that he had been hit in the face throwing himself to the floor then the media would have got into overdrive and even on here


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 28, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			VAR was designed for social Media and TV audiences.
It certainly wasnâ€™t designed for the match going fans.
		
Click to expand...

And to be honest has failed both camps


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 28, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			exactly the point - Kane gets away with his antics because he is the England captain , if Mane was the one pretending that he had been hit in the face throwing himself to the floor then the media would have got into overdrive and even on here
		
Click to expand...

Seriously??
So the Media go into overdrive when Mane & Salah throw themselves to the ground?
The media are definitely Pro Liverpool so put the poor us card away,itâ€˜s got to be running low ðŸ‘ðŸ»


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Oct 28, 2019)

I think everyone who say it in slo mo would agree that Harry badly over reacted and should be in line for an Oscar nomination, he should also be punished as he is clearly cheating and bringing the game into disrepute.
If the defender was carded, that should be over ruled

However the ref gave it as he and the other match officials saw it, its a fast paced game after all and mistakes can and do happen
 One of those times when VAR should have been used


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Ah the old "he raised his arm" chestnut. That yellow was based on Kanes reaction 100%

I was surprised at how Taylor reffed the game yesterday, he let plenty of niggly fouls to go on both sides but I was surprised he never booked Son for stopping a quick free kick being taken 3 times.
		
Click to expand...

He did though mate.

I totally agree about the time wasting by Spurs, even as a neutral it was annoying, although I did notice the crowd didnâ€™t boo the time wasting when yous went 2-1 up.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 28, 2019)

PhilTheFragger said:



			I think everyone who say it in slo mo would agree that Harry badly over reacted and should be in line for an Oscar nomination, he should also be punished as he is clearly cheating and bringing the game into disrepute.
If the defender was carded, that should be over ruled

However the ref gave it as he and the other match officials saw it, its a fast paced game after all and mistakes can and do happen
One of those times when VAR should have been used
		
Click to expand...

Agree, except VAR is not used in those circumstances, not saying that is right or wrong, but thatâ€™s how it is.


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Oct 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Agree, except VAR is not used in those circumstances, not saying that is right or wrong, but thatâ€™s how it is.
		
Click to expand...

well it blooming well should be, otherwise whats the point?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 28, 2019)

PhilTheFragger said:



			well it blooming well should be, otherwise whats the point?
		
Click to expand...

Thereâ€™s a list of what it does and doesnâ€™t cover. Too much and itâ€™s compared to American Football.


----------



## Rlburnside (Oct 28, 2019)

PhilTheFragger said:



			I think everyone who say it in slo mo would agree that Harry badly over reacted and should be in line for an Oscar nomination, he should also be punished as he is clearly cheating and bringing the game into disrepute.
If the defender was carded, that should be over ruled

However the ref gave it as he and the other match officials saw it, its a fast paced game after all and mistakes can and do happen
One of those times when VAR should have been used
		
Click to expand...


That's just a ridiculous version of the event, I agree that Kane over reacted but if you watch the front on view Kane plays the ball past Lovren then Lovren extends his right arm into Kane's neck with the intent of slowing him down.

We all agree Kane over reacts but to say that's not a foul and booking for Lovren is nonsense


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 28, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			That's just a ridiculous version of the event, I agree that Kane over reacted but if you watch the front on view Kane plays the ball past Lovrin then Lovrin extends his right arm into Kane's neck with the intent of slowing him down.

We all agree Kane over reacts but to say that's not a foul and booking for Lovrin is nonesense.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s a foul no doubt because Lovren impeded him and pulled him back - but a booking ? No chance for me - and the booking only came about because of the way Kane reacts.


----------



## Rlburnside (Oct 28, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Itâ€™s a foul no doubt because Lovren impeded him and pulled him back - but a booking ? No chance for me - and the booking only came about because of the way Kane reacts.
		
Click to expand...

But you can't expect to put your hand into a players neck and not expect a booking.


----------



## fundy (Oct 28, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			That's just a ridiculous version of the event, I agree that Kane over reacted but if you watch the front on view Kane plays the ball past Lovren then Lovren extends his right arm into Kane's neck with the intent of slowing him down.

We all agree Kane over reacts but to say that's not a foul and booking for Lovren is nonsense
		
Click to expand...

Its a foul, i dont think its a booking for Lovren. Personally I would then reverse the foul for Kanes theatrics and book him. Wouldve done the same to Lacazette last week too. Until the authorities get serious about it fans will continually be defending their own whilst criticising others


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 28, 2019)

fundy said:



			Its a foul, i dont think its a booking for Lovren. *Personally I would then reverse the foul for Kanes theatrics and book him*. Wouldve done the same to Lacazette last week too. Until the authorities get serious about it fans will continually be defending their own whilst criticising others 

Click to expand...

Who? and when?


----------



## fundy (Oct 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Who? and when?
		
Click to expand...


seriously? weve all the seen the video he gets a touch to the neck, holds his face and screams like a bitch. Its clearly simulation. you hear a scream like that on a rugby field the guy goes off on a stretcher, on a football field they slowly get up sniggering at having conned the ref again


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Lovren got a yellow card for that.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, of course he did, he put his arm across Kane to stop him running past? That's obviously a yellow card.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 28, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			But you can't expect to put your hand into a players neck and not expect a booking.
		
Click to expand...

When two players are going for the ball in the manner they were then players use the arms to hand off or leverage or pull back a player there is a chance you will foul them - he is just grabbing him , if it was stopping a quick break etc then a potential booking that challenged was never a yellow


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 28, 2019)

fundy said:



			seriously? weve all the seen the video he gets a touch to the neck, holds his face and screams like a bitch. Its clearly simulation. you hear a scream like that on a rugby field the guy goes off on a stretcher, on a football field they slowly get up sniggering at having conned the ref again
		
Click to expand...

Again though mate, itâ€™s trial by Social Media, the Linesman makes a call on what he saw in that instance from his angle, micâ€™d up to the Ref the Ref makes a decision.

Iâ€™ve no issue with retrospective action, but at the time the Officials on the pitch believe they have made the correct call, that has to be respected, VAR wouldnâ€™t get involved.

Hence my question, how can the Ref do what you suggested.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 28, 2019)

PhilTheFragger said:



			I think everyone who say it in slo mo would agree that Harry badly over reacted and should be in line for an Oscar nomination, he should also be punished as he is clearly cheating and bringing the game into disrepute.
If the defender was carded, that should be over ruled

However the ref gave it as he and the other match officials saw it, its a fast paced game after all and mistakes can and do happen
One of those times when VAR should have been used
		
Click to expand...

Are you kidding? It was a foul from Lovren, he put his hand/arm out across Kane to deliberately hold him back! That is a booking irrespective of Kane's reaction. Why on earth would it be overturned?? Dear oh dear.


----------



## fundy (Oct 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Again though mate, itâ€™s trial by Social Media, the Linesman makes a call on what he saw in that instance from his angle, micâ€™d up to the Ref the Ref makes a decision.

Iâ€™ve no issue with retrospective action, but at the time the Officials on the pitch believe they have made the correct call, that has to be respected, VAR wouldnâ€™t get involved.

Hence my question, how can the Ref do what you suggested.
		
Click to expand...

wtf has that got to do with social media? Facebook made a complaint have they?

its proper football fans that are utterly fed up with the game being destroyed as a spectacle by overpaid cheating diving players and mismanaged from the authorities down the refs on the park and the use of VAR who cant enforce the right structure to resolve it


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 28, 2019)

fundy said:



			wtf has that got to do with social media? Facebook made a complaint have they?

its proper football fans that are utterly fed up with the game being destroyed as a spectacle by overpaid cheating diving players and mismanaged from the authorities down the refs on the park and the use of VAR who cant enforce the right structure to resolve it
		
Click to expand...

You havenâ€™t answered the question.

By social media I mean all media, is that ok?

Totally agree how sh!te football has become, like you I followed it all over the world and itâ€™s being ruined.
The changes need to come from the teams themselves.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 28, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Are you kidding? It was a foul from Lovren, he put his hand/arm out across Kane to deliberately hold him back! That is a booking irrespective of Kane's reaction. Why on earth would it be overturned?? Dear oh dear.
		
Click to expand...

The booking only happened because Kane faked that he was hit in the face with force - if Kane had just stopped running or indeed carried on then there would have been no booking - Kanes pathetic reaction earned the booking for Lovren


----------



## fundy (Oct 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			You havenâ€™t answered the question.

By social media I mean all media, is that ok?

Totally agree how sh!te football has become, like you I followed it all over the world and itâ€™s being ruined.
The changes need to come from the teams themselves.
		
Click to expand...

what question?


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 28, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The booking only happened because Kane faked that he was hit in the face with force - if Kane had just stopped running or indeed carried on then there would have been no booking - Kanes pathetic reaction earned the booking for Lovren
		
Click to expand...

The booking happened because Lovren put his arm across the player to hold him back and avoid being skinned down the line. Deliberate foul. It's pretty simple.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			He did though mate.

I totally agree about the time wasting by Spurs, even as a neutral it was annoying, *although I did notice the crowd didnâ€™t boo the time wasting when yous went 2-1 up*.

Click to expand...

We had no booos left in us, we're not like your lot  ðŸ¤­


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 28, 2019)

fundy said:



			what question?
		
Click to expand...

How you could expect the Ref to book Kane for play acting.
Post #4310.


----------



## fundy (Oct 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			How you could expect the Ref to book Kane for play acting.
Post #4310.
		
Click to expand...

Its really simple, he blows his whistle, he calls Kane over, he goes to his pocket, he pulls out a yellow card and raises it in Kanes direction. At the same time he warns him as the sides captain about both his personal and his teams conduct and that next time it will be red. Simples


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Oct 28, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			That's just a ridiculous version of the event, I agree that Kane over reacted but if you watch the front on view Kane plays the ball past Lovren then Lovren extends his right arm into Kane's neck with the intent of slowing him down.

We all agree Kane over reacts but to say that's not a foul and booking for Lovren is nonsense
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™m not saying it wasnâ€™t a foul by Lovren, Iâ€™m saying he got booked because of Kaneâ€™s massive over reaction, 

My opinion


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 28, 2019)

fundy said:



			Its really simple, he blows his whistle, he calls Kane over, he goes to his pocket, he pulls out a yellow card and raises it in Kanes direction. At the same time he warns him as the sides captain about both his personal and his teams conduct and that next time it will be red. Simples 

Click to expand...

He could only do that if heâ€™d of been sat next to Stu_C, read this forum and seen the videos on Twitter.


----------



## fundy (Oct 28, 2019)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Iâ€™m not saying it wasnâ€™t a foul by Lovren, Iâ€™m saying he got booked because of Kaneâ€™s massive over reaction, 

My opinion
		
Click to expand...

rare that youre right Phil  but you are this time


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 28, 2019)

fundy said:



			rare that youre right Phil  but you are this time 

Click to expand...

A stuck clock is right twice a day ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Rlburnside (Oct 28, 2019)

So we got the Spurs fans saying it was a booking and Liverpool Arsenal fans it shouldn't have been, just have to wait for Homer our resident ref to give us a definitive answer


----------



## Rlburnside (Oct 28, 2019)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Iâ€™m not saying it wasnâ€™t a foul by Lovren, Iâ€™m saying he got booked because of Kaneâ€™s massive over reaction,

My opinion
		
Click to expand...


That's ok we're all entitled to have a opinion, good it's not degenerated like it does sometimes .


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 28, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			So we got the Spurs fans saying it was a booking and Liverpool Arsenal fans it shouldn't have been, just have to wait for Homer our resident ref to give us a definitive answer 

Click to expand...

Whether it was a booking is open for discussion, but was Kane right to go down holding his face like he did when the contact (no matter how minimal) is with his neck? Or is Kane Englands answer to Rivaldo?


----------



## Rlburnside (Oct 28, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Whether it was a booking is open for discussion, but was Kane right to go down holding his face like he did when the contact (no matter how minimal) is with his neck? Or is Kane Englands answer to Rivaldo?
		
Click to expand...

No and No


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Of course it doesnâ€™t, otherwise weâ€™d see a lot of players who are awarded penalties also being booked.

Time and time again on here we see arguments defending players going down in the box after theyâ€™ve been fouled saying if they didnâ€™t go down the Ref wouldnâ€™t of given the pen.

Also, who decides what the tolerance is for contact, what makes Bernard fall over when fouled maybe 10 times worse than that which would make Delph fall over.
What maybe a â€œtapâ€ to some maybe a â€œsmackâ€ to others.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe it doesnt make sense under the rules, but also maybe it does - I dont think that it is clear that you can or you cant.

I think that a penalty could should be given for a foul, BUT if a player OVERREACTS to the contact and is also trying to get a player sent off that in extreme cases he could also book the fouled player for simulating something that didnt happen.

Right, there will deffo be Mane and Salah scenarios similar but as there is a video on here (and also for a perennial offender)look at the Kane one. Fair enough a foul for Kane for putting an arm across Kane, but the false exaggeration of excessive force to the face, probably to try and get Lovren sent off could be booked for ungentlemanly conduct.

Otherwise their is no jeopardy involved for the attacker. Exaggerate contact, no booking for me. If the ref thinks I had been whacked yellow/red for Lovren - thats not fair. Exactly in the same manner for diving in the box up to 8-10 years ago. Single jeopardy until the refs started to book for simulation.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Stu, you were there and it was close to you as you said, you got one look at it and came to a decision, thatâ€™s exactly what the Linesman got, he actually gave the decision and told the Ref a hand was raised, Iâ€™m not defending Kane and whether he went down easily or not, but this trial by Social Media is stupid. 
That offence would of only been reviewed if it had been a Red Card, I donâ€™t think we are being fair to Officials to get every decision correct, every time.
		
Click to expand...

There was a scenario yesterday, can't remember who made the challenge - possibly Rose or Ndombele, but they went right through our player and in first reaction we thought may be a red. The ref gave a yellow quickly, I think.

It made me think, for some tackles should the ref say to the VAR ref, I'm thinking yellow but can you check for red,, but I presume that they cant do that so the ref gives a yellow, then I presume if he does that the VAR cant then upgrade to a red, as "the ref has dealt with it" - am I right?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			I know thatâ€™s your point, but I disagree, Kane is singled out by Reds when you play them.
Supporters of opposing teams often single out certain players.
Nobody more than Sterling over the years has took stick and there are plenty of other English players have been as well over the years.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, but you are talking fan reaction, Stuey is talking about media reaction and I agree the foreigners are pulled up more than the English, especially if an England international.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			He did though mate.

I totally agree about the time wasting by Spurs, even as a neutral it was annoying, although I did notice the crowd didnâ€™t boo the time wasting when yous went 2-1 up.

Click to expand...

Itâ€™s called being in the lead .
We all know all teams do it .
Itâ€™s an art .


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 28, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			So we got the Spurs fans saying it was a booking and Liverpool Arsenal fans it shouldn't have been, just have to wait for Homer our resident ref to give us a definitive answer 

Click to expand...

I think all the reds would say that it was a foul, not necessarily a booking on it's own.

If Lovren had done other fouls, depending on if there was cover, the time in the game (does make a difference with some refs), how far from the goal etc etc

I'd say that most of the time it would be a booking, but Kane's reaction could have seen it become a red.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 28, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Itâ€™s called being in the lead .
We all know all teams do it .
Itâ€™s an art .

Click to expand...

Tell me about it, I think the possession stats for the first 15 minutes where:-

Spurs 8%
Liverpool 8%

Serge Aurier's throw ins, injury and miscellany 84%.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 28, 2019)

fundy said:



			Its really simple, he blows his whistle, he calls Kane over, he goes to his pocket, he pulls out a yellow card and raises it in Kanes direction. At the same time he warns him as the sides captain about both his personal and his teams conduct and that next time it will be red. Simples 

Click to expand...

For that to happen we would need good referees.
So no time soon.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 28, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			There was a scenario yesterday, can't remember who made the challenge - possibly Rose or Ndombele, but they went right through our player and in first reaction we thought may be a red. The ref gave a yellow quickly, I think.

It made me think, for some tackles should the ref say to the VAR ref, I'm thinking yellow but can you check for red,, but I presume that they cant do that so the ref gives a yellow, then I presume if he does that the VAR cant then upgrade to a red, as "the ref has dealt with it" - am I right?
		
Click to expand...

Donâ€™t think so.
Look at Saha ,booked for diving then exonerated by VAR and given a penalty.
Ref went over to him and showed him he had cancelled his yellow card.

If that had been a last man one on one outside the box ,would the defender then get a red.?
Nobody knows is the answer!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 28, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Tell me about it, I think the possession stats for the first 15 minutes where:-

Spurs 8%
Liverpool 8%

Serge Aurier's throw ins, injury and miscellany 84%.
		
Click to expand...

Not having Spurs had 8%.


----------



## Rlburnside (Oct 28, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think all the reds would say that it was a foul, not necessarily a booking on it's own.

If Lovren had done other fouls, depending on if there was cover, the time in the game (does make a difference with some refs), how far from the goal etc etc

I'd say that most of the time it would be a booking, but Kane's reaction could have seen it become a red.
		
Click to expand...




Liverbirdie said:



			I think all the reds would say that it was a foul, not necessarily a booking on it's own.

If Lovren had done other fouls, depending on if there was cover, the time in the game (does make a difference with some refs), how far from the goal etc etc

I'd say that most of the time it would be a booking, but Kane's reaction could have seen it become a red.
		
Click to expand...

I have no doubt Kane made it look worse and with the thought Lovren could get sent off, that does not mean Lovren shouldnâ€™t get booked for putting his arm into Kaneâ€™s neck.

Iâ€™ve said before all teams have players that will try to con the ref some worse than others and sadly thatâ€™s the way the game is.

Frankly itâ€™s pointless anyone calling any player out because because before long it will be one of their own players.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 28, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			My view is it was a booking , we can all have different o


I have no doubt Kane made it look worse and with the thought Lovren could get sent off, that does not mean Lovren shouldnâ€™t get booked for putting his arm into Kaneâ€™s neck.

Iâ€™ve said before all teams have players that will try to con the ref some worse than others and sadly thatâ€™s the way the game is.

Frankly itâ€™s pointless anyone calling any player out because because before long it will be one of their own players.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s 50/50 for me some refs will give yellow some wonâ€™t.
If thatâ€™s yellow you would have mass yellow cards at corners and free kicks.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 28, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			I have no doubt Kane made it look worse and with the thought Lovren could get sent off, that does not mean Lovren shouldnâ€™t get booked for putting his arm into Kaneâ€™s neck.

Iâ€™ve said before all teams have players that will try to con the ref some worse than others and sadly thatâ€™s the way the game is.

Frankly itâ€™s pointless anyone calling any player out because because before long it will be one of their own players.
		
Click to expand...

We can call all players out though, including our own.

I'll start next season though.


----------



## fundy (Oct 28, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			I have no doubt Kane made it look worse and with the thought Lovren could get sent off, that does not mean Lovren shouldnâ€™t get booked for putting his arm into Kaneâ€™s neck.

Iâ€™ve said before all teams have players that will try to con the ref some worse than others and sadly thatâ€™s the way the game is.

Frankly itâ€™s pointless anyone calling any player out because because before long it will be one of their own players.
		
Click to expand...


you are allowed to call out your own players


----------



## Hobbit (Oct 29, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			I have no doubt Kane made it look worse and with the thought Lovren could get sent off, that does not mean Lovren shouldnâ€™t get booked for putting his arm into Kaneâ€™s neck.

Iâ€™ve said before all teams have players that will try to con the ref some worse than others and sadly thatâ€™s the way the game is.

Frankly itâ€™s pointless anyone calling any player out because because before long it will be one of their own players.
		
Click to expand...

I don't doubt that the majority of players make more of it than it really is but just a couple of points. Get a bang on the jaw, and it doesn't have to be too hard, and that force travels up the jaw and can leave a player really groggy. It looks like the player is milking it when in reality they aren't. Get a bang on the point of the nose, and it doesn't have to be hard, and it hurts like hell. Eyes water and it feels horrendous. In both cases, a few mins later it looks like the player was milking it... they may not have been.

I'm not condoning it but I am giving some players the benefit of the doubt.


----------



## Slime (Oct 29, 2019)

Kane was milking it! He wanted Lovren off.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 29, 2019)

@Liverbirdie @Hobbit Totally agree what you both posted.
Taking all Club allegiances out of it, all Iâ€™m trying (not very well) is to defend the Officials, they have to make instant decisions for scenarios not covered by VAR, we have to respect those decisions even when when us armchair supporters are shown 10 angles that possibly prove the â€œinjuredâ€ player makes it look a lot worse than it is.
The only way this can be clamped down on is for all Yellow Cards to be reviewed after the match and appropriate action is taken.
Currently a team canâ€™t even appeal a Yellow Card unless itâ€™s for mistaken identity (I think).


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 29, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



@Liverbirdie @Hobbit Totally agree what you both posted.
Taking all Club allegiances out of it, all Iâ€™m trying (not very well) is to defend the Officials, they have to make instant decisions for scenarios not covered by VAR, we have to respect those decisions even when when us armchair supporters are shown 10 angles that possibly prove the â€œinjuredâ€ player makes it look a lot worse than it is.
The only way this can be clamped down on is for all Yellow Cards to be reviewed after the match and appropriate action is taken.
Currently a team canâ€™t even appeal a Yellow Card unless itâ€™s for mistaken identity (I think).
		
Click to expand...

Agree with this .
But if a ref can withdraw a yellow on the pitch ( Saha) why canâ€™t he do it after the match.?
The rules need changing over cards but canâ€™t see it anytime soon.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 29, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Agree with this .
But if a ref can withdraw a yellow on the pitch ( Saha) why canâ€™t he do it after the match.?
The rules need changing over cards but canâ€™t see it anytime soon.
		
Click to expand...

Because itâ€™s not currently within his remit to do it after the game.
The Zaha one only happened because VAR reviewed the penalty, not the booking.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 29, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



@Liverbirdie @Hobbit Totally agree what you both posted.
Taking all Club allegiances out of it, all Iâ€™m trying (not very well) is to defend the Officials, they have to make instant decisions for scenarios not covered by VAR, we have to respect those decisions even when when us armchair supporters are shown 10 angles that possibly prove the â€œinjuredâ€ player makes it look a lot worse than it is.
The only way this can be clamped down on is for all Yellow Cards to be reviewed after the match and appropriate action is taken.
Currently a team canâ€™t even appeal a Yellow Card unless itâ€™s for mistaken identity (I think).
		
Click to expand...

Yep, a start would be to overturn this rubbish of a yellow card cant be reviewed either during match (now we have VAR) or after a match, as in the past. 

I think what VAR has shown is that even with 10 camera angles, slo-mo that a berk can still get it massively wrong - thinking the Delofeu tackle by Vertonghen last week.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 29, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, a start would be to overturn this rubbish of a yellow card cant be reviewed either during match (now we have VAR) or after a match, as in the past.

I think what VAR has shown is that even with 10 camera angles, slo-mo that a berk can still get it massively wrong - thinking the Delofeu tackle by Vertonghen last week.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed, also what doesnâ€™t help is Sky/BT having the 10 angles on an incident and VAR only having 4.

The Media have to take a role in this as well as most controversy is stoked by them.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 29, 2019)

Slime said:



			Kane was milking it! He wanted Lovren off.
		
Click to expand...

I wanted Lovren off too ðŸ¤­


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 29, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Agreed, also what doesnâ€™t help is Sky/BT having the 10 angles on an incident and VAR only having 4.

*The Media have to take a role in this as well as most controversy is stoked by them*.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on. They love to dramatise everything, it sells their product.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 29, 2019)

So from what some of you are saying, it's lucky Kane _did _go down, or else the ref may have incorrectly failed to book Lovren for his karate chop to the throat. 

I think Hobbit made a great point, the jaw and throat area can be quite sensitive, and it wouldn't take an enormous amount of force for it to hurt, at least in the first few seconds. I'm not saying Kane didn't exaggerate the contact - he probably did - but I would say that a referee could never be convinced enough that he was exaggerating to actually book him for simulation. Especially when you can clearly see there _was_ contact from Lovren's hand. Whenever a player goes down under zero contact, they should absolutely be booked because that's clear as day. See Hudson-Odoi's dive against Burnley for example.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 29, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Because itâ€™s not currently within his remit to do it after the game.
The Zaha one only happened because VAR reviewed the penalty, not the booking.
		
Click to expand...

Yes we are in agreement.
I just donâ€™t understand the â€œ itâ€™s not in the rules to change/ cancel a yellow cardâ€
When itâ€™s the people who are making the rules who are saying it.
Just change the rule then.
They made several rule changes this year one more might just help.

As long as they donâ€™t make it like the handball rule. Thatâ€™s a joke!


----------



## Norrin Radd (Oct 29, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			So from what some of you are saying, it's lucky Kane _did _go down, or else the ref may have incorrectly failed to book Lovren for his karate chop to the throat.

I think Hobbit made a great point, the jaw and throat area can be quite sensitive, and it wouldn't take an enormous amount of force for it to hurt, at least in the first few seconds. I'm not saying Kane didn't exaggerate the contact - he probably did - but I would say that a referee could never be convinced enough that he was exaggerating to actually book him for simulation. Especially when you can clearly see there _was_ contact from Lovren's hand. Whenever a player goes down under zero contact, they should absolutely be booked because that's clear as day. See Hudson-Odoi's dive against Burnley for example.
		
Click to expand...

Do you really think it was a karate chop and do you really think that Kane was touched at all and do you think that Kane wasn't cheating and do you think that you might have the wrong glasses on .
Try using clear glass as opposed to heavily rose tinted ones .
 I watched the game as a neutral and the amount of feigning injury on both sides was farcical .
 And what is all this talk of we this and we that .there is no we ,you are not affiliated in any way to the club so it's they not we .


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 29, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I wanted Lovren off too ðŸ¤­
		
Click to expand...

But hopefully for a sub.?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 29, 2019)

Norrin Radd said:



			Do you really think it was a karate chop and do you really think that Kane was touched at all and do you think that Kane wasn't cheating and do you think that you might have the wrong glasses on .
Try using clear glass as opposed to heavily rose tinted ones .
I watched the game as a neutral and the amount of feigning injury on both sides was farcical .
And what is all this talk of we this and we that .there is no we ,you are not affiliated in any way to the club so it's they not we .
		
Click to expand...

Weird! Thatâ€™s not my post


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 29, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			So from what some of you are saying, it's lucky Kane _did _go down, or else the ref may have incorrectly failed to book Lovren for his karate chop to the throat.

I think Hobbit made a great point, the jaw and throat area can be quite sensitive, and it wouldn't take an enormous amount of force for it to hurt, at least in the first few seconds. I'm not saying Kane didn't exaggerate the contact - he probably did - but I would say that a referee could never be convinced enough that he was exaggerating to actually book him for simulation. Especially when you can clearly see there _was_ contact from Lovren's hand. Whenever a player goes down under zero contact, they should absolutely be booked because that's clear as day. See Hudson-Odoi's dive against Burnley for example.
		
Click to expand...

Kane is what 13 st built like a tank as all prem stars are.
You could not get any of them on the floor if you tried.
They go to ground when THEY want in instances like this.

But you are right Lovren did foul him but his reaction was OTT.
But he is not the only one . Every team has them even the defenders do it now.
Itâ€™s not going to stop while refs donâ€™t give fouls like this.
But there would be ten penalties a game if thatâ€™s a yellow.imo.


----------



## Norrin Radd (Oct 29, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Weird! Thatâ€™s not my post
		
Click to expand...

How come it's your name for someon elses post .like you say weird


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 29, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Kane is what 13 st built like a tank as all prem stars are.
You could not get any of them on the floor if you tried.
They go to ground when THEY want in instances like this.

But you are right Lovren did foul him but his reaction was OTT.
But he is not the only one . Every team has them even the defenders do it now.
Itâ€™s not going to stop while refs donâ€™t give fouls like this.
But there would be ten penalties a game if thatâ€™s a yellow.imo.
		
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with much of that. I believe it's a yellow not necessarily for catching him in the face/throat, but because he put his arm across Kane to deliberately hold him back and stop him getting an easy run past him. That's why I still believe it's a yellow whether Kane exaggerates the contact or not - as you say, that's just what most players do now.


----------



## fundy (Oct 29, 2019)

Bulgaria have been ordered to play two matches behind closed doors, one suspended for two years, and fined Â£64,640 over the racist behaviour of fans during the European Qualifier against England.

and thats why England shouldve walked off and not come back out . UEFA just dont take it seriously at all


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 29, 2019)

Apparently Watford are having a vote with their fans over changing their badge. Candidates as follows:






Personally I think badge D is the clear winner. It's basically the current badge with a hornet replacing the stag thing. Least upheaval but also the cleanest design. A I think looks weird and old-fashioned, B is interesting but too far removed from the current look. C just looks hideous, like an anatomically correct diagram of a hornet that just makes me want to swat it to death. And E just looks pretty forgettable to me.

@Piece which one are you voting for to eventually become your new avatar?? Haha.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 29, 2019)

Badge B is like a comic book villain symbol. It is horrible.

If it was my club I would go D.


----------



## Piece (Oct 29, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Apparently Watford are having a vote with their fans over changing their badge. Candidates as follows:

View attachment 28442
View attachment 28443
View attachment 28444


Personally I think badge D is the clear winner. It's basically the current badge with a hornet replacing the stag thing. Least upheaval but also the cleanest design. A I think looks weird and old-fashioned, B is interesting but too far removed from the current look. C just looks hideous, like an anatomically correct diagram of a hornet that just makes me want to swat it to death. And E just looks pretty forgettable to me.

@Piece which one are you voting for to eventually become your new avatar?? Haha.
		
Click to expand...



The six candidates you've shown will be whittled down to one, to have a final vote off against the current badge. Our family voted E, but it wasn't unanimous! Word on the street is that none of these will have a prayer against the current....thus I won't be changing my avatar! 

'Stag thing'...it's a hart deer.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 29, 2019)

Piece said:





The six candidates you've shown will be whittled down to one, to have a final vote off against the current badge. Our family voted E, but it wasn't unanimous! Word on the street is that none of these will have a prayer against the current....thus I won't be changing my avatar! 

'Stag thing'...it's a hart deer. 

Click to expand...

Thanks dear. 

Yeah E isn't too bad, I don't like the font used at the top though. Fair play, fans traditionally hate change don't they. I guess we'll see.


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 29, 2019)

I would go E, but I hate badge changes. Arsenal did it due to their old one being so old it wasn't copyrighted. The new one is, but as a fan, the old one was just the one, the Arsenal badge.


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 29, 2019)

Piece said:





The six candidates you've shown will be whittled down to one, to have a final vote off against the current badge. Our family voted E, but it wasn't unanimous! Word on the street is that none of these will have a prayer against the current....thus I won't be changing my avatar! 

'Stag thing'...it's a hart deer. 

Click to expand...

In all honesty P, I like D and E, the E badge has the W reversed on it, I like that. If that had been incorporated onto the D badge. That's a winner all day long.


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 29, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			I would go E, but I hate badge changes. Arsenal did it due to their old one being so old it wasn't copyrighted. The new one is, but as a fan, the old one was just the one, the Arsenal badge.
		
Click to expand...

I couldnt wait til we changed the City badge that had an eagle on it. Apparantly the eagle was a representation back to the times Manchester was a Roman town ðŸ¤”ðŸ˜³ðŸ˜–. All hail Pepus Guadiolius


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 29, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			I could t wait til we changed the City badge that had an eagle on it. Apparantly the eagle was a representation back to the times Manchester was a Roman town ðŸ¤”ðŸ˜³ðŸ˜–. Al hail Pepus Guadiolius
		
Click to expand...

So even then it was built on foreign money.


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 29, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			So even then it was built on foreign money. 

Click to expand...

ðŸ¤”ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## fundy (Oct 29, 2019)

how comes there no EFL cup game on tonight? was looking forward to watching Saints at City lol


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 29, 2019)

fundy said:



			how comes there no EFL cup game on tonight? was looking forward to watching Saints at City lol
		
Click to expand...

Forget football it's Bake Off final night ðŸŽ‚ðŸ°


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 29, 2019)

fundy said:



			how comes there no EFL cup game on tonight? was looking forward to watching Saints at City lol
		
Click to expand...

Two games on tomorrow instead


----------



## Norrin Radd (Oct 29, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Forget football it's Bake Off final night ðŸŽ‚ðŸ°
		
Click to expand...

Where is the unlike button ,
Bake off? Jeez LT gave you a bit more cred than bloody bake off


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 29, 2019)

Norrin Radd said:



			Where is the unlike button ,
Bake off? Jeez LT gave you a bit more cred than bloody bake off
		
Click to expand...

Dublin Murders is on five episodes in and itâ€™s getting interesting.


----------



## fundy (Oct 29, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Two games on tomorrow instead
		
Click to expand...

saves me having to watch the liverpool arsenal game lol, what do i get instead?

why did i put everton -1.5 in my bet tonight sigh


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 29, 2019)

fundy said:



			saves me having to watch the liverpool arsenal game lol, what do i get instead?

why did i put everton -1.5 in my bet tonight sigh
		
Click to expand...

You're not alone, i added them to a over 1.5 first half goals treble and over 2.5 match goalsðŸ™„


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 29, 2019)

Norrin Radd said:



			Where is the unlike button ,
Bake off? Jeez LT gave you a bit more cred than bloody bake off
		
Click to expand...

Ha ha. It's one of the few programmes that get all of us at home watching at once. Anyway, I like cake, I'm not apologising for that ðŸ˜„


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 29, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			You're not alone, i added them to a over 1.5 first half goals treble and over 2.5 match goalsðŸ™„
		
Click to expand...

Whatâ€™s that old saying? A fool and his money are soon parted.

Iâ€™ve already given you one tip.

Match is that bad Iâ€™ve took a look on here.


----------



## fundy (Oct 29, 2019)

keep the faith lol 

just kept them off the banned list


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 29, 2019)

fundy said:



			saves me having to watch the liverpool arsenal game lol, what do i get instead?

why did i put everton -1.5 in my bet tonight sigh
		
Click to expand...

Instead you get Chelsea United. Hmm, what a choice. Arsenal Liverpool, or Chelsea United. Or, just don't bother. That is my preference.


----------



## Piece (Oct 30, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			In all honesty P, I like D and E, the E badge has the W reversed on it, I like that. If that had been incorporated onto the D badge. That's a winner all day long.
		
Click to expand...

interesting Mr T, thatâ€™s what I thought....


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 30, 2019)

Piece said:



			interesting Mr T, thatâ€™s what I thought....
		
Click to expand...

Through the power of fans, I would try to get a combined badge drawn up and hammer it on social media. ðŸ‘


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 30, 2019)

So, what do the Arsenal fans think may be their team tonight?

15 years ago your 2nd string/kids/squad players were the envy of the league, and I remember you coming to Anfield and whacking us 6-2 iirc in the league cup one year. Will he go with a 2nd string side to try and get a cup on the sideboard (perennial cup winner with Sevilla), or will he use his squad and kintergarden?

I'd have us as:-

Adrian (but he's playing the other keeper)

RB Hoever (but he's injured so another kid
CB Gomez
CB Lovren or next up and coming
LB  Milly or larouci

RCM The ox
CM Keita
LCM Lallana

Origi down the middle, Brewster and Elliott either side


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2019)

This is Emery were talking about, there is no clear plan, who knows lol. It seems at the moment he has a prem league XI and a Europe XI, expect tonight you see more of the Europe XI

Something like:

Martinez
Bellerin (c)
Holding
Mustafi
Kolasinac (assuming Tierney now his first choice in the prem)
Torreira
Willock
Maitlin Niles
Emile Smith Rowe
Matrinelli
Lacazette

Likes of Pepe, Guendoozi, Saka, Ceballos, Tierney, Chambers on the bench


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2019)

Personally would go for something like:

Martinez
Bellerin (c)
Holding
Chambers
Tierney
Torreira
Guendoozi
Ceballos
Pepe
Aubameyang
Lacazette


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50229350

First part of the counselling should be to apologise to the fans who pay his wages!


----------



## Wolf (Oct 30, 2019)

fundy said:



			Personally would go for something like:

Martinez
Bellerin (c)
Holding
Chambers
Tierney
Torreira
Guendoozi
Ceballos
Pepe
Aubameyang
Lacazette
		
Click to expand...

Reports I've seen suggest that Ozil is in for a start tonight. 



fundy said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50229350

First part of the counselling should be to apologise to the fans who pay his wages!
		
Click to expand...

 Absolutely bloody spot on, apologise and accept your actions first and foremost but I doubt he will and if he doesn't shouldn't be playing end of.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 30, 2019)

fundy said:



			Personally would go for something like:

Martinez
Bellerin (c)
Holding
Chambers
Tierney
Torreira
Guendoozi
Ceballos
Pepe
Aubameyang
Lacazette
		
Click to expand...

Thats cheating !!!!


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 30, 2019)

fundy said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50229350

First part of the counselling should be to apologise to the fans who pay his wages!
		
Click to expand...

_"It is not only yesterday and today. He is feeling the supporters don't like him."_

Who knew that Xhaka was so astute? How did he manage to pick that up?


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 30, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Reports I've seen suggest that Ozil is in for a start tonight.


Absolutely bloody spot on, apologise and accept your actions first and foremost but I doubt he will and if he doesn't shouldn't be playing end of.
		
Click to expand...

If he puts in as much effort as he did getting off the pitch. It will ot mean much.


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Thats cheating !!!! 

Click to expand...


or its our best chance at a trophy and we should take it seriously


----------



## pendodave (Oct 30, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Reports I've seen suggest that Ozil is in for a start tonight.


Absolutely bloody spot on, apologise and accept your actions first and foremost but I doubt he will and if he doesn't shouldn't be playing end of.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not impressed by this vilification of xshaka.
My impression is that the guy is pretty much a model Pro and gives full effort during training and while playing. Now you can argue that he's not very good, or that the system being played doesn't work with him in it, but can any supporter deny that he does what he's paid for? I think not.
I'm sure his current form and that of the team is a worry for him, I'm sure performing in front of a stadium full of eejits who are just waiting for things to go wrong is also an extremely stressful experience. Given all that, I'm an completely unsurprised by his reaction and subsequent unhappiness.
Football fans are such entitled buffoons. They think that their appalling reaction, attacking a single person directly as mob, is somehow far less shocking and harmful than one overstressed individual mouthing a couple of swearwords to no-one in particular. Well knock me down with a feather and grab my pearls.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 30, 2019)

pendodave said:



			I'm not impressed by this vilification of xshaka.
My impression is that the guy is pretty much a model Pro and* gives full effort *during training and* while playing*. Now you can argue that he's not very good, or that the system being played doesn't work with him in it, but can any supporter deny that he does what he's paid for? I think not.
I'm sure his current form and that of the team is a worry for him, I'm sure performing in front of a stadium full of eejits who are just waiting for things to go wrong is also an extremely stressful experience. Given all that, I'm an completely unsurprised by his reaction and subsequent unhappiness.
Football fans are such entitled buffoons. They think that their appalling reaction, attacking a single person directly as mob, is somehow far less shocking and harmful than one overstressed individual mouthing a couple of swearwords to no-one in particular. Well knock me down with a feather and grab my pearls.
		
Click to expand...

I think that part is debatable. I've seen him standing near perfectly still while the man he's meant to be marking runs off him and into the box. Perhaps he is being mis-used and should be in a more attacking role though. He was even used at left back during an injury crisis. And I have a certain degree of sympathy of him being thrust forward as captain when most fans would prefer he was sold - but that's not particularly his fault. I think he is crap, but he is also becoming a bit of a scapegoat at the same time. I think he's a symptom rather than a cause.


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 30, 2019)

I don't think Xhaka is a paricularly bad football player. He is just a bad buy for Arsenal, as he is not equipped for the prem. He doesn't think fast enough, doesn't cope well with being pressed, is not physically fast, and due to this, when he makes mistakes he compounds them.

In a slower league, he could possibly shine. He seems ok in international footy.

Why Emery keeps picking him is a mystery, but then as we don't press, may be he looks great in training.


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2019)

What does he actually bring?

Too slow for the prem as you say, especially for the deep lying midfield role. He doesnt win enough tackles or interceptions, his discipline record is appalling (partly due to his lack of pace). He creates very little, scores rarely (despite trying for a wonder goal every game from too far out) and slows down the passing game too often

For a club that has been crying out for a leader on the pitch he was one of the worst possible choices as club captain!


----------



## pendodave (Oct 30, 2019)

I'm not defending xhaka as a footballer. 
I'm defending him as a professional doing his best. 
I'm saying that the behaviour of the arsenal fans is egregious and that their faux outrage once they'd driven him to a reaction is, frankly, risible.


----------



## Badger (Oct 30, 2019)

unfortunately for him, he's a bit of a lightening rod for the bad feeling against Emery at the moment.  A lot of the fanbase don't think he should be a first choice in the team and when Emery went and made him captain which pretty much makes him a guaranteed starter, it heightened the bad feeling towards him. the ironic cheering when he gets subbed off now is imo just as much a dig at Emery for picking him, the subsequent booing was a result of the way he left the pitch.  apparently he's popular with the players so if the club punish him you could upset the dressing room, if they don't and he doesn't apologise then you would imagine the fans will carry on booing him.   complete mess either way, think next two league games before international break massive for Emery, don't beat Wolves at home and then get beat comfortably away at Leicester then think they might pull the plug.


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2019)

Badger said:



			unfortunately for him, he's a bit of a lightening rod for the bad feeling against Emery at the moment.  A lot of the fanbase don't think he should be a first choice in the team and when Emery went and made him captain which pretty much makes him a guaranteed starter, it heightened the bad feeling towards him. the ironic cheering when he gets subbed off now is imo just as much a dig at Emery for picking him, the subsequent booing was a result of the way he left the pitch.  apparently he's popular with the players so if the club punish him you could upset the dressing room, if they don't and he doesn't apologise then you would imagine the fans will carry on booing him.   complete mess either way, think next two league games before international break massive for Emery, don't beat Wolves at home and then get beat comfortably away at Leicester then think they might pull the plug.
		
Click to expand...


Fair assessment though i dont think theyll even be considering pulling the plug on Emery that quickly, he'll get plenty of time yet I expect


----------



## Badger (Oct 30, 2019)

not sure they can afford to give him too much time if results carry on as is.  they've pretty much gone "all in" on getting champions league next season by spending money they didn't have last summer and buying players on tick.  another 3-4 games and you could be looking at an eight point gap to fourth.  don't want to be one of these clubs that gets rid of a manger every other year but at what point do you admit you may have picked the wrong man and try again ?  hopefully he turns it round but hard to see how at the monent,


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2019)

Badger said:



			not sure they can afford to give him too much time if results carry on as is.  they've pretty much gone "all in" on getting champions league next season by spending money they didn't have last summer and buying players on tick.  another 3-4 games and you could be looking at an eight point gap to fourth.  don't want to be one of these clubs that gets rid of a manger every other year but at what point do you admit you may have picked the wrong man and try again ?  hopefully he turns it round but hard to see how at the monent,
		
Click to expand...


Just think the way the board operates that they wont make a fast decision (or accept they got it wrong). 4th place is a very long way away with the way the side is being set up currently (theyll do well to finsh top 6 if things arent changed)


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2019)

fundy said:



			This is Emery were talking about, there is no clear plan, who knows lol. It seems at the moment he has a prem league XI and a Europe XI, expect tonight you see more of the Europe XI

Something like:

Martinez
Bellerin (c)
Holding
Mustafi
Kolasinac (assuming Tierney now his first choice in the prem)
Torreira
Willock
Maitlin Niles
Emile Smith Rowe
Matrinelli
Lacazette

Likes of Pepe, Guendoozi, Saka, Ceballos, Tierney, Chambers on the bench
		
Click to expand...


Ozil instead of Lacazette  and Saka instead of ESR (im assuming hes not fit as not in squad)

Wolf knew


----------



## Wolf (Oct 30, 2019)

fundy said:



			Ozil instead of Lacazette  and Saka instead of ESR (im assuming hes not fit as not in squad)

Wolf knew 

Click to expand...

Sometimes, just sometimes I know and get things right.. Just not according to Mrs Wolf ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2019)

Liverpool XI vs Arsenal: Kelleher, Williams, Gomez, van den Berg, Milner, Lallana, Keita, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Elliott, Origi, Brewster.

Arsenal XI vs Liverpool: Martinez, Bellerin, Holding, Mustafi, Kolasinac, Torreira, Willock, Maitland-Niles, Ozil, Saka, Martinelli.


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2019)

ok i know most of your starting XI Phil but talk me through your bench because theres some names Ive never heard of there!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2019)

fundy said:



			ok i know most of your starting XI Phil but talk me through your bench because theres some names Ive never heard of there!
		
Click to expand...

The only ones I have really know ( apart from Adrian ) is Chivrella who is a tidy mid , Larouci who has the potential to be Robbos replacement and Jones who Iâ€™m surprised didnâ€™t start - good wide player

Edit - just seen Herbie Kane is playing - very bright striker


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The only ones I have really know ( apart from Adrian ) is Chivrella who is a tidy mid , Larouci who has the potential to be Robbos replacement and Jones who Iâ€™m surprised didnâ€™t start - good wide player

Edit - just seen Herbie Kane is playing - very bright striker
		
Click to expand...

Didn't Chivrella coming on last time cause us to break registration rules or something?


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2019)

good finish Shodkran lol


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2019)

ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸ Well cheers Mustafi ðŸ‘


----------



## Wolf (Oct 30, 2019)

Normal service resumed by our defence, OG for Mustafi after just 6mins


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Normal service resumed by our defence, OG for Mustafi after just 6mins
		
Click to expand...


he didnt even score with the leg he was trying to kick it with lol


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2019)

wheres your VAR, wheres your VAR


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2019)

Martinelli looks a good one especially at the price  Nice to see Ozil on the park too

Almost getting memories of the night the beast ran wild


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2019)

wheres our VAR lol


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2019)

A game where VAR could have been a bit useful tonight

Should have been offside for the first 
handball against Bellarin 

And was Elliot touched or a dive


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A game where VAR could have been a bit useful tonight
		
Click to expand...


could be anything this lol, 2 sides who have no idea how to defend and a ref who doesnt seem too fussed either


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 30, 2019)

Definitely a good game for the neutral. Fancy Liverpool to come on strong 2nd half


----------



## adam6177 (Oct 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A game where VAR could have been a bit useful tonight

Should have been offside for the first
handball against Bellarin

And was Elliot touched or a dive
		
Click to expand...

Dive for me, hope klopp has a word with him.... He seems to have a bit of that in him.


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			Dive for me, hope klopp has a word with him.... He seems to have a bit of that in him.
		
Click to expand...

yeah Klopp has a habit of deterring that in his forwards


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2019)

This Ozil kid looks promising


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A game where VAR could have been a bit useful tonight

Should have been offside for the first
handball against Bellarin

And was Elliot touched or a dive
		
Click to expand...

Only them two know ,but the defender didnâ€™t really argue.
Went down very theatrical though.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 30, 2019)

Your defending is as bd as ours.


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Your defending is as bd as ours.
		
Click to expand...


think youll find its far worse lol


why is he taking our best player off ffs?


----------



## MegaSteve (Oct 30, 2019)

fundy said:



			why is he taking our best player off ffs?
		
Click to expand...

Unbelievable...


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 30, 2019)

Wow, just turned it on, there are some goals in this game.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 30, 2019)

Poor decision to take Ozil off. Best player by a long way and wonder if Emery is just trying to show his power/influence now he's on the pitch


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 30, 2019)

Emery can't have Ozil look good, as he might then need to pick him for the PL. He is probably gutted that Ozil hasn't flunked.


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 30, 2019)

fundy said:



			think youll find its far worse lol


why is he taking our best player off ffs?
		
Click to expand...

Thanks nothing. Between you, youâ€™re currently s bad as ours......


----------



## Wolf (Oct 30, 2019)

Jesus just turned the game back on nice to see someone defending as bad as us ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 30, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Jesus just turned the game back on nice to see someone defending as bad as us ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

This is just Liverpool without Van Dijk. One man team.


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2019)

cant defend wont defend lol


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 30, 2019)

Wow
 What z game


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2019)

Well itâ€™s certainly great entertainment ðŸ˜‚


----------



## davemc1 (Oct 30, 2019)

Joke of a game this. Roll on Saturday ðŸ˜†ðŸ¥´ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 30, 2019)

Pens. Hmm.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			This is just Liverpool without Van Dijk. One man team.
		
Click to expand...

Did you miss out posting a smiley to show itâ€™s an attempt at a joke


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Did you miss out posting a smiley to show itâ€™s an attempt at a joke
		
Click to expand...

Don't like make it too easy for you, got to keep you on your toes.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 30, 2019)

Reaction of the managers tells all.
Klopp not arsed Emery devastated.
some shocking defending/ passing by both teams.


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Reaction of the managers tells all.
Klopp not arsed Emery devastated.
some shocking defending/ passing by both teams.
		
Click to expand...


one of their jobs isnt on the line  only blessing of your equaliser lol


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 30, 2019)

Knew Ceballos would miss.


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 30, 2019)

fundy said:



			one of their jobs isnt on the line  only blessing of your equaliser lol
		
Click to expand...

If only.


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2019)

congrats Pool fans, some effort to win that game

#EmeryOut


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2019)

Well thatâ€™s a great game to watch - had the lot , some stunning goals and brilliant to see the young lads just go at it from both sides - not bad pens as well


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well thatâ€™s a great game to watch - had the lot , some stunning goals and brilliant to see the young lads just go at it from both sides - not bad pens as well
		
Click to expand...

when you say the lot, not sure i saw much defending lol


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Did you miss out posting a smiley to show itâ€™s an attempt at a joke
		
Click to expand...

He's just upset he can't complain about Rivaldo Kane only getting a 4.6 for his latest effort


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well thatâ€™s a great game to watch - had the lot , some stunning goals and brilliant to see the young lads just go at it from both sides - not bad pens as well
		
Click to expand...

Those youngsters are looking good, it was the more senior players who weren't at it today.
Some of their footwork was amazing.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 30, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			He's just upset he can't complain about Rivaldo Kane only getting a 4.6 for his latest effort

Click to expand...

Bitter because Mane only got a 4.3?


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 30, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			Bitter because Mane only got a 4.3?
		
Click to expand...

Not in the slightest, you never know....one day he may be as good as Henry was at cheating


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 30, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Not in the slightest, you never know....one day he may be as good as Henry was at cheating

Click to expand...

World class in every class going.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 30, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			World class in every class going.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think the Irish would fully agree


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 30, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Not in the slightest, you never know....one day he may be as good as Henry was at cheating

Click to expand...

talk about living in the past ðŸ™„


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 30, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			Bitter because Mane only got a 4.3?
		
Click to expand...

He got a 5.0 off Sawtooth.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 30, 2019)

That game should have had Stuart Hall commentating on it. 

Passed my ticket to a fellow forummer, may have a new convert.....


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 30, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			That game should have had Stuart Hall commentating on it.

Passed my ticket to a fellow forummer, may have a new convert..... 

Click to expand...

Hope he dosnt expect to see that every game!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 30, 2019)

fundy said:



			one of their jobs isnt on the line  only blessing of your equaliser lol
		
Click to expand...

What does it tell Ozil taken off in a cup game full of kids.
He should be asking for a transfer he canâ€™t need the money.


----------



## fundy (Oct 30, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			What does it tell Ozil taken off in a cup game full of kids.
He should be asking for a transfer he canâ€™t need the money.
		
Click to expand...


Emery claimed afterwards his substitution was planned pre match, makes Emery look even worse, especially as Ozil had been excellent up until then.

His choices currently seem to be trying to outlast Emery at the club or a move to MLS!


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 30, 2019)

A mad game of football, possibly one we could've done without winning too but fair play to the young lads for not giving up.

Ox's goal was a pearler. Arsenal fans booing Ox awsell......oops.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 30, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			A mad game of football, possibly one we could've done without winning too but fair play to the young lads for not giving up.

Ox's goal was a pearler. Arsenal fans booing Ox awsell......oops.
		
Click to expand...

This happens a lot when players face their previous club.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 31, 2019)

fundy said:



			Emery claimed afterwards his substitution was planned pre match, makes Emery look even worse, especially as Ozil had been excellent up until then.

His choices currently seem to be trying to outlast Emery at the club or a move to MLS!
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s not right is it.
How can you plan a substitute before you know how the game is panning out.
Sounds poor to me.


----------



## adam6177 (Oct 31, 2019)

That was probably the best worst game I've ever watched. Some absolutely shambolic comical defending entwined with a 2-3 worldie goals.  Diving for the penalty, offside goal given, injury time goal, pens.... It had everything.


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 31, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thatâ€™s not right is it.
How can you plan a substitute before you know how the game is panning out.
Sounds poor to me.
		
Click to expand...

Wenger used to.


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 31, 2019)

*Liverpool's fixture pile-up* * Premier League games unless stated4 DecemberEverton (h)7 DecemberBournemouth (a)10 DecemberSalzburg (a)Champions League14 December Watford (h)16 DecemberWeek of League Cup quarter-finals18 DecemberTBC (Qatar)Club World Cup21 December TBC (Qatar)Club World Cup26 DecemberLeicester City (a)29 DecemberWolves (h)2 JanuarySheffield United (h)6 JanuaryWeek of League Cup semi-final first-leg ties11 JanuaryTottenham (a)19 JanuaryManchester United (h) 

It's easier to see on the BBC football site, but that fixture pie up is brutal.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 31, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Wenger used to.
		
Click to expand...

Years ago you only got subbed if playing poorly.
How can you sub one of the best players on the pitch because you planned it.?

You could have done with him in the penalties


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 31, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Years ago you only got subbed if playing poorly.
How can you sub one of the best players on the pitch because you planned it.?

You could have done with him in the penalties 

Click to expand...

Have you seen his penalty taking?


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 31, 2019)

*Quarter-final ties:*
Oxford United v Manchester City

Manchester United v Colchester United

Aston Villa v Liverpool

Everton v Leicester City

Al take that


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 31, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Have you seen his penalty taking?
		
Click to expand...

I'd have thought he would be good at giving the keeper "the eyes".


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 31, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



*Liverpool's fixture pile-up* * Premier League games unless stated4 DecemberEverton (h)7 DecemberBournemouth (a)10 DecemberSalzburg (a)Champions League14 December Watford (h)16 DecemberWeek of League Cup quarter-finals18 DecemberTBC (Qatar)Club World Cup21 December TBC (Qatar)Club World Cup26 DecemberLeicester City (a)29 DecemberWolves (h)2 JanuarySheffield United (h)6 JanuaryWeek of League Cup semi-final first-leg ties11 JanuaryTottenham (a)19 JanuaryManchester United (h)

It's easier to see on the BBC football site, but that fixture pie up is brutal.
		
Click to expand...

Hasn't Klopp said if the FA/FL don't sort it he's going to give up the Carabao Cup spot. Not sure they're allowed to do that are they without some form of fine/sanction https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50240295


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 31, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Hasn't Klopp said if the FA/FL don't sort it he's going to give up the Carabao Cup spot. Not sure they're allowed to do that are they without some form of fine/sanction https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50240295

Click to expand...

What would happen if they did? Do Arsenal get to go back in or would Villa just get a bye to the semis?


----------



## Beezerk (Oct 31, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			What would happen if they did? Do Arsenal get to go back in or would Villa just get a bye to the semis?
		
Click to expand...

Be a bye for Villa wouldn't it.


----------



## Slime (Oct 31, 2019)

Great second goal by Rashford last night and three away wins on the spin after not having one since February.
Home tie against Colchester, I'm looking forward to that.

I can remember, about twenty years ago, when United pulled out of a cup competition and the stick they got for that was ridiculous.
Can you imagine if a manager, in today's game, suggested doing the same.
Surely that would never happen.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 31, 2019)

Personally I think clubs should be allowed to opt out of the League Cup anyway. The top 6 or so clubs don't give a toss about it, which is evident by the teams they put out, so they might as well not enter it at all. Then this would ease fixture congestion (mainly for those clubs that are also in European competition).


----------



## pokerjoke (Oct 31, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



*Liverpool's fixture pile-up* * Premier League games unless stated4 DecemberEverton (h)7 DecemberBournemouth (a)10 DecemberSalzburg (a)Champions League14 December Watford (h)16 DecemberWeek of League Cup quarter-finals18 DecemberTBC (Qatar)Club World Cup21 December TBC (Qatar)Club World Cup26 DecemberLeicester City (a)29 DecemberWolves (h)2 JanuarySheffield United (h)6 JanuaryWeek of League Cup semi-final first-leg ties11 JanuaryTottenham (a)19 JanuaryManchester United (h)

It's easier to see on the BBC football site, but that fixture pie up is brutal.
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™m sure teams that have won the treble before have had similar.

Win your CL groups quickly and try not to let games go to extra time in other cups.
Use weakened teams against lesser opposition.
Donâ€™t go on pre season tours 
Donâ€™t put International friendlies on during the season.

Obviously clubs have duties to sponsors and fans.
I suppose itâ€™s a vicious circle.
I remember when Klopp first came to England he was asked why England struggled in WC or EC and he said then we play to many games and the season was to long.


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 31, 2019)

Slime said:



			Great second goal by Rashford last night and three away wins on the spin after not having one since February.
Home tie against Colchester, I'm looking forward to that.

I can remember, about twenty years ago, when United pulled out of a cup competition and the stick they got for that was ridiculous.
Can you imagine if a manager, in today's game, suggested doing the same.
Surely that would never happen.  

Click to expand...

Think Utd pulled out of the FA cup due to being in world club comp. Think they offered to play a second team but the FA said nope if memory serves me right.


----------



## SteveW86 (Oct 31, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Think Utd pulled out of the FA cup due to being in world club comp. Think they offered to play a second team ut the FA said nope if memory serves me right.
		
Click to expand...

They didnt enter it at all though did they? That's a bit different to pulling out of it half way through.


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 31, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			They didnt enter it at all though did they? That's a bit different to pulling out of it half way through.
		
Click to expand...

I did put think and if memory serves me right. But I do remember that the FA were rsoles in not letting utd field a second team. Lo and behold, now we have U 21 teams in FA run comps. Clubs come under attack for not fielding enough young players, the Crapyboo cup ( of which we are holdersðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜) is an ideal comp to play such young uns. However the FA in its wisdom has U 21 comps on the same night as the Crappyboo cup.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 31, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			They didnt enter it at all though did they? That's a bit different to pulling out of it half way through.
		
Click to expand...

They just had more forethought and planning than Liverpool obviously.


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 31, 2019)

Pretty sure Utd were also asked to choose to represent England at the world club comp to Enhance chances of us hosting then world cup. 

Realistically the game should be able to be rearranged. It'll just mean Liverpool having to suck it up when they get busy, but that's the price of success.


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 31, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Pretty sure Utd were also asked to choose to represent England at the world club comp to Enhance chances of us hosting then world cup.

Realistically the game should be able to be rearranged. It'll just mean Liverpool having to suck it up when they get busy, but that's the price of success.
		
Click to expand...

Looking at the list, I think the only way to fit it in is to postpone one of their Premier League games.

4 December    Everton (h)   
7 December    Bournemouth (a)   
10 December    Salzburg (a)    (Champions League)
14 December    Watford (h)   
16 December    Week of League Cup quarter-finals   
18 December    TBC (Qatar)    (Club World Cup)
21 December    TBC (Qatar)    (Club World Cup)
26 December    Leicester City (a)   
29 December    Wolves (h)   
2 January    Sheffield United (h)   
6 January    Week of League Cup semi-final first-leg ties

Probably have to postpone Wolves or Sheffield and do it then.


Edit: When Man Utd did there was actually a group stage so they had to play a minimum of 3 games. Nowadays the format is different, Liverpool have a bye straight to the semi-final of a knock-out.


----------



## davemc1 (Oct 31, 2019)

Should just have a double header on Saturday. Winner takes all


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2019)

Ultimately the EFL should have looked at the potential of having games being played during the week that the club World Cup is on and then adjust if neccesary

Put the comp back a month - quarters in jan - semis in feb final in March


----------



## Orikoru (Oct 31, 2019)

Is there any reason they can't do the game earlier? Just play it during the international break - on the plus side, Henderson won't be able to play for England. Win win.


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 31, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Looking at the list, I think the only way to fit it in is to postpone one of their Premier League games.

4 December    Everton (h)  
7 December    Bournemouth (a)  
10 December    Salzburg (a)    (Champions League)
14 December    Watford (h)  
16 December    Week of League Cup quarter-finals  
18 December    TBC (Qatar)    (Club World Cup)
21 December    TBC (Qatar)    (Club World Cup)
26 December    Leicester City (a)  
29 December    Wolves (h)  
2 January    Sheffield United (h)  
6 January    Week of League Cup semi-final first-leg ties

Probably have to postpone Wolves or Sheffield and do it then.


Edit: When Man Utd did there was actually a group stage so they had to play a minimum of 3 games. Nowadays the format is different, Liverpool have a bye straight to the semi-final of a knock-out.
		
Click to expand...

I'd expect the Watford game to make way. Then they have a pile up later.


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 31, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ultimately the EFL should have looked at the potential of having games being played during the week that the club World Cup is on and then adjust if neccesary

Put the comp back a month - quarters in jan - semis in feb final in March
		
Click to expand...

Wembley probably organises itself and events a fair bit in advance. Not really reasonable to expect them to rearrange in case an English team wins CL. 

Worse case field the kids.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 31, 2019)

Only real solution is to play it on the day it's scheduled for and let the under 21's manager take his side to play it. 

I cant see PL postponing a game fora league cup tie.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 31, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Is there any reason they can't do the game earlier? Just play it during the international break - on the plus side, Henderson won't be able to play for England. Win win.
		
Click to expand...

Theres an International rule somewhere about domestic top flight games arent allowed to be played on the same day as international and CL  matchdays.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 31, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



*Iâ€™m sure teams that have won the treble before have had similar.*

Win your CL groups quickly and try not to let games go to extra time in other cups.
Use weakened teams against lesser opposition.
Donâ€™t go on pre season tours
Donâ€™t put International friendlies on during the season.

Obviously clubs have duties to sponsors and fans.
I suppose itâ€™s a vicious circle.
I remember when Klopp first came to England he was asked why England struggled in WC or EC and he said then we play to many games and the season was to long.
		
Click to expand...

Yernited played 5 league games in the same period when they played in it. 

Liverpool played 8 league games in the same period in 2005 when we played in it.

There too much football crammed into a small amount of time.


----------



## 4LEX (Oct 31, 2019)

The PL will move a game - much easier to put a league game back than a cup tie which has deadlines.

And a big laugh at whoever suggested letting the U21 side and manager represent the club. It wasn't long ago Liverpool's only genuine chance of silverware was this trophy. Just think back to the incredible Dalglish side that managed to beat a Championship side at Wembley....... 

Amazing what one major trophy in over a decade does to the ego of some fans


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 31, 2019)

4LEX said:



			The PL will move a game - much easier to put a league game back than a cup tie which has deadlines.

*And a big laugh at whoever suggested letting the U21 side and manager represent the club. It wasn't long ago Liverpool's only genuine chance of silverware was this trophy. *Just think back to the incredible Dalglish side that managed to beat a Championship side at Wembley.......

Amazing what one major trophy in over a decade does to the ego of some fans 

Click to expand...

I suggested that as it was the only viable solution if the game has to be played in that week. Nothing to do with ego's.

I can remember when we weren't even good enough to win this competition, getting knocked out by the formiddable opponents Northampton under Hodgson.

Fwiw, i'd rather we never had to go to Qatar, but like most competitions, theres too much money to turn down.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 31, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Is there any reason they can't do the game earlier? Just play it during the international break - on the plus side, Henderson won't be able to play for England. Win win.
		
Click to expand...

Henderson wont be in the cup team, it will be the youngsters in the main.


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 31, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Yernited played 5 league games in the same period when they played in it.

Liverpool played 8 league games in the same period in 2005 when we played in it.

*There too much football crammed into a small amount of time.*

Click to expand...

Am sure when I posted the original link from the BBC, Klopp was quoted as saying when he first came that the reason England do nowt is because of the amount of football this country plays. He is proper gone find out this winter.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Wembley probably organises itself and events a fair bit in advance. Not really reasonable to expect them to rearrange in case an English team wins CL.

Worse case field the kids.
		
Click to expand...

Then play it at another stadium - the EFL brought the comp forward to have it done by Feb - a team shouldnâ€™t have to sacrifice a competition or chose between the two - itâ€™s almost like being punished for winning a big comp. The should have looked at the schedule this year as soon as there was a chance an English team was going to win. 

Itâ€™s going to get to the stage where the Prem clubs will just bin it off , itâ€™s not really needed as a comp and I donâ€™t know many other countries that have two domestic cups.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Oct 31, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



*Quarter-final ties:*
Oxford United v Manchester City

Manchester United v Colchester United

Aston Villa v Liverpool

Everton v Leicester City

Al take that
		
Click to expand...

Was hoping that having come this far we'd draw a big team but I guess I'll have to settle for a winnable game instead.

On a more serious note hopefully Man Utd v Colchester will be the live TV match to add a few more quid to our bank account. I'm not expecting us to get a result but if we can avoid an embarrassing defeat and increase the bank balance then I'll be happy.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 31, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Then play it at another stadium - the EFL brought the comp forward to have it done by Feb - a team shouldnâ€™t have to sacrifice a competition or chose between the two - itâ€™s almost like being punished for winning a big comp. The should have looked at the schedule this year as soon as there was a chance an English team was going to win.

Itâ€™s going to get to the stage where the Prem clubs will just bin it off , itâ€™s not really needed as a comp and I donâ€™t know many other countries that have two domestic cups.
		
Click to expand...

Really? Bin what is still a showpiece final and has European connotations to another station. Daft


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 31, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Then play it at another stadium - the EFL brought the comp forward to have it done by Feb - a team shouldnâ€™t have to sacrifice a competition or chose between the two - itâ€™s almost like being punished for winning a big comp. The should have looked at the schedule this year as soon as there was a chance an English team was going to win.

Itâ€™s going to get to the stage where the Prem clubs will just bin it off , itâ€™s not really needed as a comp and I donâ€™t know many other countries that have two domestic cups.
		
Click to expand...

A season won't be dictated by the off chance a club has success that may cause issues. I'm sure changes will be made if at all possible. But if they change it now, then other teams will be getting messed about to help out Liverpool. 

"big" teams used to bin it off. But with more and more competition all of a sudden they seem to have paid more attention to it as trophies do still count. Even if its the least important. 

Any club is free to opt out of a comp or field a team which makes it likely they'll go out if its such a burden. A team competing on 5 fronts has to accept it'll be a busy time once the later stage of comps come around. 

It sounds simply to put it back a month and then what if there are conflicts with fa Cup or CL games....


----------



## fundy (Oct 31, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			A season won't be dictated by the off chance a club has success that may cause issues. I'm sure changes will be made if at all possible. But if they change it now, then other teams will be getting messed about to help out Liverpool. 

"big" teams used to bin it off. But with more and more competition all of a sudden they seem to have paid more attention to it as trophies do still count. Even if its the least important. 

Any club is free to opt out of a comp or field a team which makes it likely they'll go out if its such a burden. A team competing on 5 fronts has to accept it'll be a busy time once the later stage of comps come around. 

It sounds simply to put it back a month and then what if there are conflicts with fa Cup or CL games....
		
Click to expand...


oh come on, they put out a side to concede 5 in the last round and that still didnt work


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			A season won't be dictated by the off chance a club has success that may cause issues. I'm sure changes will be made if at all possible. But if they change it now, then other teams will be getting messed about to help out Liverpool.

"big" teams used to bin it off. But with more and more competition all of a sudden they seem to have paid more attention to it as trophies do still count. Even if its the least important.

Any club is free to opt out of a comp or field a team which makes it likely they'll go out if its such a burden. A team competing on 5 fronts has to accept it'll be a busy time once the later stage of comps come around.

It sounds simply to put it back a month and then what if there are conflicts with fa Cup or CL games....
		
Click to expand...

It should have been looked at when UTD pulled out of the FA Cup - the League imo has run its coirse somewhat , yeah itâ€™s a always nice to win a trophy but if it was stopped being played for would it really matter ?

What other country has two domestic cups - next year a winter break starts to help , remove the League Cup would help even more - especially when most clubs just played second string teams anyway.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 31, 2019)

This makes depressing reading https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50063299


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 31, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It should have been looked at when UTD pulled out of the FA Cup - the League imo has run its coirse somewhat , yeah itâ€™s a always nice to win a trophy but if it was stopped being played for would it really matter ?

What other country has two domestic cups - next year a winter break starts to help , remove the League Cup would help even more - especially when most clubs just played second string teams anyway.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but that's a blinkered outlook typical of a supporter who's been lucky to have his team win multiple trophies. 

Just watch the news today and see colchesters players reaction to drawing Utd. 

There have been two conflicts in 20 years. That's hardly a reason to cancel cups. Especially when they're different competitions!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Sorry but that's a blinkered outlook typical of a supporter who's been lucky to have his team win multiple trophies.

Just watch the news today and see colchesters players reaction to drawing Utd.

There have been two conflicts in 20 years. That's hardly a reason to cancel cups. Especially when they're different competitions!
		
Click to expand...

Can still get that reaction if they get drawn in the FA Cup - why do we have two domestic cups when other nations have one ?


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 31, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can still get that reaction if they get drawn in the FA Cup - why do we have two domestic cups when other nations have one ?
		
Click to expand...

Yes. But it's happened twice in 20 years. That's not a reason to scrap it.

Why do we play on boxing day, or have better away support in the league than all. Other European countries? Quite simply beciase football is different everywhere. Why should we change because of an anomaly?

But if I had to think of a reason, I'd say its because we have more leagues and it's the League Cup after all. 

Maybe make it open to all who wish to play and if the big teams want to dip out they can. But only for 3 year periods and not just one season when it's an inconvenience....


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 31, 2019)

fundy said:



			oh come on, they put out a side to concede 5 in the last round and that still didnt work 

Click to expand...

And played, an inelligible player in the round before. You'd think he'd had an agenda to get out of the competition asap ðŸ˜„


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 31, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Was hoping that having come this far we'd draw a big team but I guess I'll have to settle for a winnable game instead.

On a more serious note hopefully Man Utd v Colchester will be the live TV match to add a few more quid to our bank account. I'm not expecting us to get a result but if we can avoid an embarrassing defeat and increase the bank balance then I'll be happy.
		
Click to expand...

Flippin eck I had to read that twice, I thought Slime had wrote it.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 31, 2019)

I can't see any justification to allow PL (or any other side) to opt out the league cup. It is still a great source of revenue for the lower league sides to get a PL side at home (and the TV money) and gives them a real chance of a giant kill over a potentially weaker PL line-up. I get the issue Klopp is talking about but a PL game has to be easier to mover (and gives Sky another viewing option later in the year if Liverpool are going for the title so surely a win-win)


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 31, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can still get that reaction if they get drawn in the FA Cup - why do we have two domestic cups when other nations have one ?
		
Click to expand...

Any  other club and no way would you be saying this.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Yes. But it's happened twice in 20 years. That's not a reason to scrap it.

Why do we play on boxing day, or have better away support in the league than all. Other European countries? Quite simply beciase football is different everywhere. Why should we change because of an anomaly?

But if I had to think of a reason, I'd say its because we have more leagues and it's the League Cup after all.

Maybe make it open to all who wish to play and if the big teams want to dip out they can. But only for 3 year periods and not just one season when it's an inconvenience....
		
Click to expand...

Our players play more than any other European players - they are already looking to make changes by bringing in a break mid season 

Spain have loads of leagues , Italy as well

This is a cup for just four leagues when there is already one cup 

So what would really happen if it was cancelled - May help all the teams , may help the national team 

Itâ€™s mainly won by the big teams anyway


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 31, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			And played, an inelligible player in the round before. You'd think he'd had an agenda to get out of the competition asap ðŸ˜„
		
Click to expand...

And almost a conspiracy to keep them in. I still think, had that been a lower league club they would have been chucked out


----------



## Pin-seeker (Oct 31, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Our players play more than any other European players - they are already looking to make changes by bringing in a break mid season

Spain have loads of leagues , Italy as well

This is a cup for just four leagues when there is already one cup

So what would really happen if it was cancelled - May help all the teams , may help the national team

Itâ€™s mainly won by the big teams anyway
		
Click to expand...

It generates a lot of money for smaller clubs when they come up against the big clubs.


----------



## fundy (Oct 31, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50257148

OK so ive been quite critical of Xhaka as a player for the last couple of years and more recently of him being captain at Arsenal. I thought his actions last week were bang out of order. Having read this and having no reason not to assume what he says is true then I totally understand why he reacted the way he did.

I have no problem with booing a sportsman if I think they arent putting it all in as a paying fan (I know others disagree with this). Thats as far as the line goes for me.

I have also commented that we have more than our fair share of idiots (partly emphasised by the Fan TV show) but this just underlines it sadly (as does some of our fans having a go at Aubameyang of all people the other night!). Threatening or wishing badly of a players wife and children is just utterly ridiculously beyond acceptable and a sad indictment of some of our fan base (and some people in this country generally)

Wont change my opinion of him as a footballer, it will change my opinion of how he deals with it


----------



## Papas1982 (Oct 31, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Our players play more than any other European players - they are already looking to make changes by bringing in a break mid season 

Spain have loads of leagues , Italy as well

This is a cup for just four leagues when there is already one cup 

So what would really happen if it was cancelled - May help all the teams , may help the national team 

Itâ€™s mainly won by the big teams anyway
		
Click to expand...

The Spain isnâ€™t league system is nothing like ours. The lower tiers are feeder systems at best. 

As to scrapping the cup to help the national team, thatâ€™s based on what? Iâ€™d argue the extra revenue helps all teams below the premier league. So scrapping it would at best help the top 20%

There are 92 teams that enter the league cup. Iâ€™m pretty sure at least 72 donâ€™t consider it a cup they arenâ€™t interested in. In fact is say that number is nearer 80. 

And as Iâ€™ve repeated. All of this after one cup clash in its history.


----------



## fundy (Oct 31, 2019)

So Chelsea only broke the rules 150 times on 69 players lol. Even tried to claim a player on his 75th game in his 3rd season was still a triallist

sounds like they got off lightly to me but no doubt Fish will correct me at some point 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...ilty-150-transfer-rule-breaches-involving-69/


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 31, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And almost a conspiracy to keep them in. I still think, had that been a lower league club they would have been chucked out
		
Click to expand...

They wouldnt have. Iirc It was international paperwork that had been requested. Apparently there was an investigation and quote 

The EFL said in a statement: â€œFollowing a comprehensive review of all the evidence, the board determined that it wasnâ€™t appropriate to expel the club from the competition because of a number of mitigating factors.â€


----------



## sawtooth (Oct 31, 2019)

fundy said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50257148

OK so ive been quite critical of Xhaka as a player for the last couple of years and more recently of him being captain at Arsenal. I thought his actions last week were bang out of order. Having read this and having no reason not to assume what he says is true then I totally understand why he reacted the way he did.

I have no problem with booing a sportsman if I think they arent putting it all in as a paying fan (I know others disagree with this). Thats as far as the line goes for me.

I have also commented that we have more than our fair share of idiots (partly emphasised by the Fan TV show) but this just underlines it sadly (as does some of our fans having a go at Aubameyang of all people the other night!). Threatening or wishing badly of a players wife and children is just utterly ridiculously beyond acceptable and a sad indictment of some of our fan base (and some people in this country generally)

Wont change my opinion of him as a footballer, it will change my opinion of how he deals with it
		
Click to expand...

Haha fair share of idiots? You are one of them lol.

How do you know that Xhaka doesnâ€™t see the crap that you spout on here about him? 

Not quite the same as wishing his wife gets cancer but constant petty criticism is unhelpful, especially when half the time itâ€™s not even justified.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 31, 2019)

I have no problem with fixture congestion per se, just suck it up and get on with it, but if you have to play a game 24 or 48 hours after another one, thats not right for me.

I know City have to do it and we had to last year (due to telly), but that is dangerous for players. We even had to play Ipswich 24 hours after another game years ago, now thats just wrong.


----------



## Stuart_C (Oct 31, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I have no problem with fixture congestion per se, just suck it up and get on with it, but if you have to play a game 24 or 48 hours after another one, thats not right for me.

I know City have to do it and we had to last year (due to telly), but that is dangerous for players. We even had to play Ipswich 24 hours after another game years ago, now thats just wrong.
		
Click to expand...

The issue is fitting a game in between the fixtures as they stand now.  I cant see the PL moving a PL game to help the EFL.

Would villa be able to reject certain dates due to them being the home side?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Oct 31, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The issue is fitting a game in between the fixtures as they stand now.  I cant see the PL moving a PL game to help the EFL.

Would villa be able to reject certain dates due to them being the home side?
		
Click to expand...

Thats what Ipswich did to us (2001, possibly), so we played on the Sunday and the Monday iirc.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 31, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Have you seen his penalty taking?
		
Click to expand...

No he never plays I havnt seen him for months.
Last time I saw him was on the news at ten!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 1, 2019)

A lot of clubs could learn a lot from these fans https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50225455


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 1, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			A lot of clubs could learn a lot from these fans https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50225455

Click to expand...

I think it may have been these who took 35,000 to Hertha Berlin last week. Okay not a long journey, but I keep meaning to look for youtube videos for it.


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 1, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			No he never plays I havnt seen him for months.
Last time I saw him was on the news at ten!
		
Click to expand...

He takes an awful penalty.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 1, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Thats what Ipswich did to us (2001, possibly), so we played on the Sunday and the Monday iirc.
		
Click to expand...

Didnt  we play Ipswich last game of the season?? TBH that season was a blur only missed two games that year  home and awayðŸ˜€

It was Charlton Last game of that season. We played Ipswich 48 hours after the semi final against Wycombe. Sunday/ Tuesday.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 1, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Didnt  we play Ipswich last game of the season?? TBH that season was a blur only missed two games that year  home and awayðŸ˜€

It was Charlton Last game of that season. We played Ipswich 48 hours after the semi final against Wycombe. Sunday/ Tuesday.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, your right it was 48 hours later, but want last game of the season that was Charlton in the league.

Are we the only club to do 2 x trebles? 

The Alaves final was a cracking trip, although on the day I had the wildies, so spent one half of the day in the main square and the other half on the loo of some German underground car park.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 1, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Didnt  we play Ipswich last game of the season?? TBH that season was a blur only missed two games that year  home and awayðŸ˜€

It was Charlton Last game of that season. We played Ipswich 48 hours after the semi final against Wycombe. Sunday/ Tuesday.
		
Click to expand...

Here we go again, everyday........talking about you lot.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 1, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Here we go again, everyday........talking about you lot.

Click to expand...

It makes a change from you know who ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Kellfire (Nov 2, 2019)

Rumours on twitter that United have been purchased by the Saudis finally. 

I really hope this isnâ€™t true


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 2, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Rumours on twitter that United have been purchased by the Saudis finally.

I really hope this isnâ€™t true
		
Click to expand...

Which United?


----------



## Kellfire (Nov 2, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			Which United?
		
Click to expand...

The one you know Iâ€™m talking about.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 2, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			The one you know Iâ€™m talking about.
		
Click to expand...

Sheffield ðŸ‘ðŸ»


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 2, 2019)

It would have to be reported to the stock exchange first off, New York I think for them. If it has happened then it would be Monday before you would hear for sure.


----------



## fundy (Nov 2, 2019)

The lesser spotted Ozil in the premier league


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 2, 2019)

Great bit of business for the Glazers if it goes ahead.

Buy a club with about Â£70m of your own money, borrow the rest, use the clubs profits to service the debt and watch the value treble in 15 years, then sell for a profit of about Â£2.5 billion with the club in a total mess on the pitch 

I think the takeover would be bad news for City and Liverpool as the Saudi's aren't fuelled by profits, they want publicity and success at any cost. A Man Utd with no debt is a club with another Â£80-100m a season to spend on top of their usual Â£100m. And more crucially it'll all be within financial fairplay. Throw in some dubious City like sponsorship and they'll be free to spend Â£250m a year without even batting an eyelid.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 2, 2019)

4LEX said:



			Great bit of business for the Glazers if it goes ahead.

Buy a club with about Â£70m of your own money, borrow the rest, use the clubs profits to service the debt and watch the value treble in 15 years, then sell for a profit of about Â£2.5 billion with the club in a total mess on the pitch 

I think the takeover would be bad news for City and Liverpool as the Saudi's aren't fuelled by profits, they want publicity and success at any cost. A Man Utd with no debt is a club with another Â£80-100m a season to spend on top of their usual Â£100m. And more crucially it'll all be within financial fairplay. Throw in some dubious City like sponsorship and they'll be free to spend Â£250m a year without even batting an eyelid.
		
Click to expand...

Man Utd already spend fortunes as it - must be close to the biggest spenders over the last 5 years 

Also - within FFP ? Not so sure about that but then City show that FFP is a white elephant 

But this is all based at the moment on a random tweet - reckon they have been rumoured to have bought many a club over the years 

But if it does happen I donâ€™t see a huge difference for a while


----------



## Fish (Nov 2, 2019)

4LEX said:



			Great bit of business for the Glazers if it goes ahead.

Buy a club with about Â£70m of your own money, borrow the rest, use the clubs profits to service the debt and watch the value treble in 15 years, then sell for a profit of about Â£2.5 billion with the club in a total mess on the pitch 

I think the takeover would be bad news for City and Liverpool as the Saudi's aren't fuelled by profits, they want publicity and success at any cost. A Man Utd with no debt is a club with another Â£80-100m a season to spend on top of their usual Â£100m. And more crucially it'll all be within financial fairplay. Throw in some dubious City like sponsorship and they'll be free to spend Â£250m a year without even batting an eyelid.
		
Click to expand...

and who would manage this golden goose, surely not the current headless one ðŸ¤”

How did they get on today, asking for a friend ðŸ˜œ


----------



## Fish (Nov 2, 2019)

Southampton doing a reenactment of Custerâ€™s last stand, only thing is thereâ€™s still 60 minutes to go ðŸ˜œ


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 2, 2019)

apparently this is offside according to VAR ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸

Just what is the point of it when itâ€™s making things worse


----------



## fundy (Nov 2, 2019)

Arsenal winning, conceding attempts on goal for fun yet again (12 in the first half), but winning


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 2, 2019)

â€œSadio Mane goes down in the box while under pressure from Frederic Guilbert.
Moss whips out his yellow card and books Mane for diving.â€

Well done Moss youâ€™ve just gone up in my estimations. ðŸ‘


----------



## Fish (Nov 2, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 28467

apparently this is offside according to VAR ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸

Just what is the point of it when itâ€™s making things worse
		
Click to expand...

Quote: The red vertical line signifies Firmino and was aligned to his armpit, which was marginally ahead of the last Villa defender.


----------



## Fish (Nov 2, 2019)

Newcastle on the rampage ðŸ˜œðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 2, 2019)

Fish said:



			Newcastle on the rampage ðŸ˜œðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Normal service has resumed in east London

We are back to terrible


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 2, 2019)

Going to be the day we get beat looks like it to sum up a rubbish day for sport ðŸ˜¡- really scrappy play all round.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 2, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Going to be the day we get beat looks like it to sum up a rubbish day for sport ðŸ˜¡- really scrappy play all round.
		
Click to expand...

If this does happen and city stays the same it won't be as a big deal surely ? It's if they win your screwed


----------



## Fish (Nov 2, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 28467

apparently this is offside according to VAR ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸

Just what is the point of it when itâ€™s making things worse
		
Click to expand...

Plus it wasnâ€™t var that called it. it was flagged offside by the Lino. var checked it and agreed with the Lino..


----------



## Fish (Nov 2, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			If this does happen and city stays the same it won't be as a big deal surely ? It's if they win your screwed
		
Click to expand...

That depends on Leicester and our results, if we both win, city drop to 4th in a so-called 2 horse race ðŸ¤”

The pack behind simply catches up with 2 ......hang on....

City equalise, now it gets more interesting.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 2, 2019)

Fish said:



			That depends on Leicester and our results, if we both win, city drop to 4th in a so-called 2 horse race ðŸ¤”

The pack behind simply catches up with 2 ......hang on....

City equalise, now it gets more interesting.
		
Click to expand...

You and leicester have surprised me so much this season..lampard looks a great manager with his young team and Rodgers I'll admit when I'm wrong is a blooming cracking appointment really got them flying


----------



## fundy (Nov 2, 2019)

1-0 up with 15 mins to go and having conceded 20 shots we take off Torreira to bring on Saka. Can someone explain why you would do that?


----------



## fundy (Nov 2, 2019)

and surprise surprise we concede sigh


----------



## Fish (Nov 2, 2019)

And there you go, the relentless pressure gets City the goal they were hammering at the door for, feel for saints, theyâ€™ve given everything.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 2, 2019)

Rubbish day ðŸ˜¡

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ well maybe not


----------



## Wolf (Nov 2, 2019)

fundy said:



			1-0 up with 15 mins to go and having conceded 20 shots we take off Torreira to bring on Saka. Can someone explain why you would do that?
		
Click to expand...

Moronic and tactically inept substition, dropping yet more points from a winning position


----------



## Piece (Nov 2, 2019)

Probably just time for a Liverpool win...


----------



## Fish (Nov 2, 2019)

Wow, how big a point might that be for Lâ€™pool. 

Late goals flying in everywhere


----------



## Piece (Nov 2, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Normal service has resumed in east London

We are back to terrible
		
Click to expand...

Hang on....


----------



## Fish (Nov 2, 2019)

Piece said:



			Probably just time for a Liverpool win...
		
Click to expand...

That was very lazy by Villa, allowed Robertson to come around the back unchallenged to head in easily.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 2, 2019)

Booooooooommmmmmmmm



Piece said:



			Probably just time for a Liverpool win...
		
Click to expand...

Thank you ðŸ˜†


----------



## Piece (Nov 2, 2019)

Piece said:



			Probably just time for a Liverpool win...
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ¤£ðŸ˜‚ðŸ¤£


----------



## Fish (Nov 2, 2019)

Pep will have a heart attack soon if he carries on like that on the side of the pitch ðŸ˜œ


----------



## Fish (Nov 2, 2019)

Has Fergieâ€™s watch been stolen ðŸ˜œ

Talk about swings and roundabouts today ðŸ˜³


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 2, 2019)

Piece said:



			Hang on....
		
Click to expand...

Nah still poor. 3 nil down before we start playing 

Why did he change the team after the Everton game

We had such a solid defence then he drops Frederick's and ogbonna for baleunea and zabs .. yes the former scored today but we have let in 4 goals in 2 games since they came in. Frederick's is one of the quickest players around we need that pace


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 2, 2019)

Dramatic 2nd half and looked for so long as though City would get a few points back.


----------



## Piece (Nov 2, 2019)

A goal will do today. Not asking for much!


----------



## Norrin Radd (Nov 2, 2019)

And the SEAGULLS move up to a dizzy 8th in the table


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 2, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Dramatic 2nd half and looked for so long as though City would get a few points back.
		
Click to expand...

Same amount of points gap as it was at half time lol but my fantasy footy (Sergio captain and mane In midfield) get a boost plus the prediction league I get 4 points more than I would of

Not all bad lol


----------



## fundy (Nov 2, 2019)

#EmeryOut


----------



## Fish (Nov 2, 2019)

Piece said:



			A goal will do today. Not asking for much!
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully just a late consolation one ðŸ˜


----------



## adam6177 (Nov 2, 2019)

Fish said:



			Hopefully just a late consolation one ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Surprised at Alonso being dropped? I'm miffed as I stuck him in my fantasy team!


----------



## Fish (Nov 2, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			Surprised at Alonso being dropped? I'm miffed as I stuck him in my fantasy team!
		
Click to expand...

Heâ€™s too inconsistent, very poor midweek, along with other senior players.


----------



## Dan2501 (Nov 2, 2019)

How many doubters does Abraham still have? Were quite a few early season but he keeps scoring, has looked impressive since the first game of the season and got better and better as the season has gone on. This Chelsea side is an exciting young unit - Kepa, Tomori, Mount, Pulisic, Hudson-Odoi and Abraham, superb young core to this side. Enjoyed watching them so far this season.


----------



## Wolf (Nov 2, 2019)

fundy said:



			#EmeryOut
		
Click to expand...

He's got to go, tactics are all over the place, Substitions don't make sense the only exception today being Kola for Tierney as Tierney was out on his feet as still needs more time post injury. Can't maintain a lead and we're so easy to play against conceding so many chances.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 2, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			How many doubters does Abraham still have? Were quite a few early season but he keeps scoring, has looked impressive since the first game of the season and got better and better as the season has gone on. This Chelsea side is an exciting young unit - Kepa, Tomori, Mount, Pulisic, Hudson-Odoi and Abraham, superb young core to this side. Enjoyed watching them so far this season.
		
Click to expand...

2 goals in last 10 games before today not exactly prolific.

Jury is still out for sure.


----------



## fundy (Nov 2, 2019)

Wolf said:



			He's got to go, tactics are all over the place, Substitions don't make sense the only exception today being Kola for Tierney as Tierney was out on his feet as still needs more time post injury. Can't maintain a lead and we're so easy to play against conceding so many chances.
		
Click to expand...

another change of formation today, another one that didnt involve pressing the opposition or a structured approach to defending leading to us conceding 25 shots to Wolves, numbers wholly consistent with almost every game we play. yet again were reliant on how many we can score and individuals to defend rather than as a unit

no surprise Tierney was out on his feet, he had no cover or help all game. the Torreira substitution for Saka at 1-0 just beggars belief


----------



## Dan2501 (Nov 2, 2019)

2 quality saves from Foster in the last minute. Did very well to stay tall and prevent Abraham making it 2, and then keeps out an excellent header from Pulisic with an even better save. Top work.


----------



## Bazzatron (Nov 2, 2019)

Second season in a row to be disappointed with a point at Arsenal. Thought we were superb going forward and performed relatively well with a makeshift defence.


----------



## Fish (Nov 2, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			How many doubters does Abraham still have? Were quite a few early season but he keeps scoring, has looked impressive since the first game of the season and got better and better as the season has gone on. This Chelsea side is an exciting young unit - Kepa, Tomori, Mount, Pulisic, Hudson-Odoi and Abraham, superb young core to this side. Enjoyed watching them so far this season.
		
Click to expand...

With more on the fringes like Billy Gilmore, Reece James and still have RLC to come back, the futures ðŸ’™


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 2, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			Second season in a row to be disappointed with a point at Arsenal. Thought we were superb going forward and performed relatively well with a makeshift defence.
		
Click to expand...

Arsenal have a makeshift defense as well tbf.


----------



## Fish (Nov 2, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			2 goals in last 10 games before today not exactly prolific.

Jury is still out for sure.
		
Click to expand...

10 goals this season, whatâ€™s your top scorer on ðŸ¤”


----------



## Fish (Nov 2, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Arsenal have a makeshift manager as well tbf.
		
Click to expand...

Edited ðŸ˜œ


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 2, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Going to be the day we get beat looks like it to sum up a rubbish day for sport ðŸ˜¡- really scrappy play all round.
		
Click to expand...

Oi plums, Thereâ€™s no place for this negative attitude on The Klopp Express, final warning or youâ€™re thrown off at the next stop....choo choo ðŸ˜ðŸ˜


----------



## davemc1 (Nov 2, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			How many doubters does Abraham still have? Were quite a few early season but he keeps scoring, has looked impressive since the first game of the season and got better and better as the season has gone on. This Chelsea side is an exciting young unit - Kepa, Tomori, Mount, Pulisic, Hudson-Odoi and Abraham, superb young core to this side. Enjoyed watching them so far this season.
		
Click to expand...

Chelsea look a very promising side no doubt. 
For me, they play city in a couple of weeks, letâ€™s see how good he is then....

ðŸ™ðŸ»


----------



## Fish (Nov 2, 2019)

Wow, thatâ€™s another amazing save from foster, what a strike from Mount.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 2, 2019)

Fish said:



			Edited ðŸ˜œ
		
Click to expand...

Strictly speaking youâ€™re right , he wasnâ€™t first choice. 

But now heâ€™s here he deserves the time to get it right. I think our back four will look better in a month or two.ðŸ‘


----------



## davemc1 (Nov 2, 2019)

Was so close to askin Davy papas what time is motd on.. ðŸ‘ŽðŸ»


----------



## Fish (Nov 2, 2019)

Foster the difference otherwise itâ€™s 4-nil.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 2, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Was so close to askin Davy papas what time is motd on.. ðŸ‘ŽðŸ»
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s as good as a win for them considering the results the last few weeks.


----------



## Piece (Nov 2, 2019)

Fish said:



			Foster the difference otherwise itâ€™s 4-nil.
		
Click to expand...

On his day, he is the best keeper in the Prem. When heâ€™s not, he gives away goals for fun!


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 2, 2019)

Fish said:



			and who would manage this golden goose, surely not the current headless one ðŸ¤”

How did they get on today, asking for a friend ðŸ˜œ
		
Click to expand...

Haha. Ole is a cringeworthy car crash of a manager. Man Utd will do well to finish top ten with him in charge. Dare I say the Saudi's wouldn't let Woodward hang around either.....

Funny how Rashford has hit some form since been shifted out wide.....a position Mourinho said was his best and got slated for playing him. Mourinho also didn't rate Martial as a number nine because the guy is a bottler and will go missing in any sort of big game or physical battle. Ole will realise this when about 3 months afer he's been binned off.


----------



## fundy (Nov 2, 2019)

VAR drunk again

negligible contact delayed reaction (aka a dive) and Mike Dean finally decides to give them a pen. Joke


----------



## chrisd (Nov 2, 2019)

fundy said:



			VAR drunk again

negligible contact delayed reaction (aka a dive) and Mike Dean finally decides to give them a pen. Joke
		
Click to expand...

Looks different in slow mo, never enough for a pen imo.


----------



## Piece (Nov 2, 2019)

chrisd said:



			Looks different in slow mo, never enough for a pen imo.
		
Click to expand...

If it works for Mane...


----------



## fundy (Nov 2, 2019)

So nearly complete and utter robbery at the death there lol


----------



## Fish (Nov 2, 2019)

Thatâ€™ll do, 7 away wins on the belt, put ourselves under pressure at the end when it should have been much more comfortable, Foster was brilliant today and the difference.


----------



## chrisd (Nov 2, 2019)

Piece said:



			If it works for Mane...
		
Click to expand...

No argument from me


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 2, 2019)

That Watford penalty sums up the problem the Refs face for me, he was definitely caught, whether thatâ€™s a foul or players think the only way they can get a penalty is to dive is the problem.
Just how much contact is enough?

That could of easily been a pen and a yellow card for diving.


----------



## Piece (Nov 2, 2019)

Only one team deserved three points. We are poor again and I donâ€™t agree with what QSF is doing; the same as Javi. Long winter ahead.


----------



## Piece (Nov 2, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			That Watford penalty sums up the problem the Refs face for me, he was definitely caught, whether thatâ€™s a foul or players think the only way they can get a penalty is to dive is the problem.
Just how much contact is enough?

That could of easily been a pen and a yellow card for diving.
		
Click to expand...

A few weeks ago, Deulofeu was hacked by Vertonghen and nothing given. In the short few weeks VAR has gone the other way now, so I donâ€™t blame Deulofeu for diving. And yes, he dived.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 2, 2019)

Another goal for Pulisic, thereâ€™s hope for my 100/1 ticket Top goal scorer bet ðŸ¤­


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 2, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			2 goals in last 10 games before today not exactly prolific.

Jury is still out for sure.
		
Click to expand...

Joint top scorer with vardy and aguero


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 2, 2019)

Fish said:



			10 goals this season, whatâ€™s your top scorer on ðŸ¤”
		
Click to expand...

If you want to bin him off please put him in a taxi up to Goodison. We will pay the fare ðŸ˜„.

We are hoping Keane develops the same but he is a year away from Abraham at best right now.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 2, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Joint top scorer with vardy and aguero
		
Click to expand...

Thought Vardy had 9 PL goals and Aguero and Abraham have 8. Not too bad a return for a Chelsea side that didn't start overly well. Think they are finding their feet and Lampard seems to be doing well at getting the youngsters to play without too many nerves and just go out and express themselves.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 2, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Thought Vardy had 9 PL goals and Aguero and Abraham have 8. Not too bad a return for a Chelsea side that didn't start overly well. Think they are finding their feet and Lampard seems to be doing well at getting the youngsters to play without too many nerves and just go out and express themselves.
		
Click to expand...

They both scored today making it 9 a piece


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 2, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			They both scored today making it 9 a piece
		
Click to expand...

You're right. Apologies. Website I looked at hadn't taken todays games into account. Either way, not a bad effort from someone a lot of people didn't think of as a good finisher at the start of the season. Chelsea win their last 5 PL games so Lampard doing something right


----------



## davemc1 (Nov 2, 2019)

Do we reckon this is a pen, Or another dive? ðŸ¤·â€â™‚ï¸


----------



## fundy (Nov 2, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Do we reckon this is a pen, Or another dive? ðŸ¤·â€â™‚ï¸
		
Click to expand...

not sure you can give a penalty for him headbutting the raised boot


----------



## davemc1 (Nov 2, 2019)

fundy said:



			not sure you can give a penalty for him headbutting the raised boot 

Click to expand...

good job he put it in the net then ðŸ˜…


----------



## davemc1 (Nov 2, 2019)

I know motd canâ€™t show everything but... 
in the first half a defender grabbed Salah in a headlock. It was said in commentary that is was good defending as he let him go in time... ðŸ¤£


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 2, 2019)

That VAR decision for Firmino's goal was a disgrace. Surely you cant score with an armpit?? It needs to be jibbed asap.

.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			That VAR decision for Firmino's goal was a disgrace. Surely you cant score with an armpit?? It needs to be jibbed asap.

. 
	View attachment 28471

Click to expand...

Heâ€™s level surely . So thatâ€™s on .
Klopp needs to have a word with Mane about his dive .
Only seen motd their crap to busy advertising whatâ€™s coming up to people already watching.

Thought the Delefeu one was a pen as it let the keeper close him down when he stumbled.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 3, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			I know motd canâ€™t show everything but...
in the first half a defender grabbed Salah in a headlock. It was said in commentary that is was good defending as he let him go in time... ðŸ¤£
		
Click to expand...

Thing I donâ€™t like is when the pundits do their summary they show things they never showed in the game.


----------



## Fish (Nov 3, 2019)

Today Mathew, Iâ€™m going to be an Eagle, and hopefully enjoy some Toffee Moments later ðŸ˜


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

Fish said:



			Today Mathew, Iâ€™m going to be an Eagle, and hopefully enjoy some Toffee Moments later ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

I cant see past a Leicester/Spurs double today.


----------



## Fish (Nov 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I cant see past a Leicester/Spurs double today.
		
Click to expand...

if it was that easy to predict weâ€™d all be millionaires.


----------



## Bazzatron (Nov 3, 2019)

Funny how the media are slating VAR, when it was them highlighting every refereeing mistake that caused it to be brought in.


----------



## Bazzatron (Nov 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I cant see past a Leicester/Spurs double today.
		
Click to expand...

That double and btts, 17/1. Tempting.


----------



## Kellfire (Nov 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			That VAR decision for Firmino's goal was a disgrace. Surely you cant score with an armpit?? It needs to be jibbed asap.

. 
	View attachment 28471

Click to expand...

You could score with an armpit, yes.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			You could score with an armpit, yes.
		
Click to expand...

For that to happen the ball would be touching the arm and armpit. So is it handball?


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			That double and btts, 17/1. Tempting.
		
Click to expand...

Not too sure I'd be taking that, Everton wont score.  I might have a single and double of Vardy/Son FGS.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

Fish said:



			if it was that easy to predict weâ€™d all be millionaires.
		
Click to expand...

I just think Leicester are playing some really good stuff at the mo and Everton are crap.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 3, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Joint top scorer with vardy and aguero
		
Click to expand...

True buts letâ€™s judge a striker over 2-3 seasons not a third of one.

Aguero and Vardy are proven.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 3, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			Funny how the media are slating VAR, when it was them highlighting every refereeing mistake that caused it to be brought in.
		
Click to expand...

VAR is looking like more trouble than what itâ€™s worth.

Iâ€™d like to see them trial a system similar to cricket where each team has a few appeals each and thatâ€™s your lot.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			VAR is looking like more trouble than what itâ€™s worth.

*Iâ€™d like to see them trial a system similar to cricket where each team has a few appeals each and thatâ€™s your lot.*

Click to expand...

No no no and no. How would that help refs and improve the game? Scrap VAR until the standard of refereeing has improved. The only way to do that is improve the quality and not just be happy with the likes of Moss, Friend, Mason, Tierney etc

I'm pretty certain if you were paying Â£1k a season to go the game you'd have a completely different view on VAR.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			No no no and no. How would that help refs and improve the game? Scrap VAR until the standard of refereeing has improved. The only way to do that is improve the quality and not just be happy with the likes of Moss, Friend, Mason, Tierney etc

I'm pretty certain if you were paying Â£1k a season to go the game you'd have a completely different view on VAR.
		
Click to expand...

I would bin VAR, but then we have to accept some decisions will be wrong.

You will never get to a point were Refs make no mistakes and thatâ€™s ok until it affects your team.

There has to be a middle ground, whether thatâ€™s changing some of the rules or teams taking more responsibility or less media analysis etc. It needs everyone taking part and helping to move it forward.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			I would bin VAR, but then we have to accept some decisions will be wrong.

You will never get to a point were Refs make no mistakes and thatâ€™s ok until it affects your team.

There has to be a middle ground, whether thatâ€™s changing some of the rules or teams taking more responsibility or less media analysis etc. It needs everyone taking part and helping to move it forward.
		
Click to expand...

Wrong decisions are still being made with the tech. 

I'm not expecting every decision to be correct, I dont think anybody is expecting it. It's not ok if it doesnt effect your team  because as it's been shown in recent weeks, its only a matter of time before it does. 

Totally agree with your last point. 

Improve the refs, demote the under performing ones and you'd see an improvement.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Wrong decisions are still being made with the tech.

I'm not expecting every decision to be correct, I dont think anybody is expecting it. It's not ok if it doesnt effect your team  because as it's been shown in recent weeks, its only a matter of time before it does.

Totally agree with your last point.

Improve the refs, demote the under performing ones and you'd see an improvement.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s been brought in because there was too much human error, they arenâ€™t going to stop it overnight (no matter how much we want them too)

It would be interesting if they UEFA/FIFA/FA could do a study of the Countries/Leagues itâ€™s not being used in against those using it and seeing how itâ€™s affecting Leagues/Attendances etc.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 3, 2019)

Another sat night Sunday morning talking about VAR ðŸ˜–. That aside, I said earlier this season when Sterling was offside by a fingernail, how can you be offside with something you cannot score with. At the moment, dragging two grandkids across the Pennines at all hours over the weekend and watching VAR kill a game, not being able to enjoy a cliffhanger goal with the fear of VAR hanging over your neck is killing the enjoyment for me.
Gonna be a lot of soul searching when it comes to Season ticket renewal for Tash. Quite frankly am pissd off with it all.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 3, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Another sat night Sunday morning talking about VAR ðŸ˜–. That aside, I said earlier this season when Sterling was offside by a fingernail, how can you be offside with something you cannot score with. At the moment, dragging two grandkids across the Pennines at all hours over the weekend and watching VAR kill a game, not being able to enjoy a cliffhanger goal with the fear of VAR hanging over your neck is killing the enjoyment for me.
Gonna be a lot of soul searching when it comes to Season ticket renewal for Tash. Quite frankly am pissd off with it all.
		
Click to expand...

Which is why limiting teams to 3 VAR calls each game may help.

Managers can decide what contentious decisions they want to contest. Tried and tested format in cricket and tennis and everybody knows where they stand.

When all 3 have been used you can celebrate that last minute goal knowing that VAR canâ€™t be usedðŸ‘


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 3, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			VAR is looking like more trouble than what itâ€™s worth.

Iâ€™d like to see them trial a system similar to cricket where each team has a few appeals each and thatâ€™s your lot.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s not the amount of VAR thatâ€™s the problem.
Itâ€™s the time they take and still get the decision wrong.imo.


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 3, 2019)

Just get rid. It's proven not to work for the reason it was introduced. The decisions still boil down to someones opinion and for that they'll always be grey areas. The ref on the pitch will make mistakes and the ref in the studio will do the same as he's under pressure to make the right call within 10-20 seconds or so to avoid the game being held up. Just look at all the wrong and bizarre decisions we've had so far.

It comes down to what it gives and what is detracts from the game and for me, it's taking way more than it gives. Goal line tech or Hawkeye in tennis works as it's a simple yes or no whether the ball was over the line or in/out.


----------



## Piece (Nov 3, 2019)

4LEX said:



			Just get rid. It's proven not to work for the reason it was introduced. The decisions still boil down to someones opinion and for that they'll always be grey areas. The ref on the pitch will make mistakes and the ref in the studio will do the same as he's under pressure to make the right call within 10-20 seconds or so to avoid the game being held up. Just look at all the wrong and bizarre decisions we've had so far.

It comes down to what it gives and what is detracts from the game and for me, it's taking way more than it gives. Goal line tech or Hawkeye in tennis works as it's a simple yes or no whether the ball was over the line or in/out.
		
Click to expand...

It is a mixed bag of why VAR is having problems. They need to reduce the time it takes for a decision and introduce pitch side monitors to help on field ref. More stadium info would help. I would also like to hear the comms between ref and VAR so that at least we can understand the rationale behind a decision; take a leaf out of rugbyâ€™s book.

For me, we need to persist with VAR, but it must improve in clarity and speed.


----------



## Fade and Die (Nov 3, 2019)

Piece said:



			It is a mixed bag of why VAR is having problems. They need to reduce the time it takes for a decision and introduce pitch side monitors to help on field ref. More stadium info would help. I would also like to hear the comms between ref and VAR so that at least we can understand the rationale behind a decision; take a leaf out of rugbyâ€™s book.

For me, we need to persist with VAR, but it must improve in clarity and speed.
		
Click to expand...

I hate it but think it would better if it was Ex referees in the van rather than current ones who seem extremely reluctant to make there colleagues look bad.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 3, 2019)

Piece said:



			It is a mixed bag of why VAR is having problems. They need to reduce the time it takes for a decision and introduce pitch side monitors to help on field ref. More stadium info would help. I would also like to hear the comms between ref and VAR so that at least we can understand the rationale behind a decision; take a leaf out of rugbyâ€™s book.

For me, we need to persist with VAR, but it must improve in clarity and speed.
		
Click to expand...

I thought they had pitch side monitors the refs just donâ€™t / wonâ€™t use them.

The quality of refs need to improve.
How that happens I donâ€™t know but TV scrutinises everything they do from 10 different angles.
Maybe TV should only have three cameras allowed. Canâ€™t see that though.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Itâ€™s not the amount of VAR thatâ€™s the problem.
Itâ€™s the time they take and still get the decision wrong.imo.
		
Click to expand...

CC98 this is what is killing it for me. 

Let me give you two examples.

Rugby world cup final. SA score a try, ref says over Mic and everyone hears it , exactly what he is looking for. Fans in the stadium and on telly hear that. They know exactly what they are looking at, they are involved, they are educated, they know the rules. They see what they see. They know the ref is correct. They k me the ruling is correct.

Premier league. It goes to VAR. WHY? The fans in the stadium dont know why? Sometimes.the bloody red dont know why. A goal is ruled out. No fuller in the ground knows why. A penalty is given no one knows why yet it takes an age. 

Football is going  backwards.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 3, 2019)

Good win for Leicester.
They are a nice team to watch as a neutral.
Always look forward, defended really well, young lad put Saha out of the game second half.
Maddison looks better every time I see him.
Vardy must be a nightmare to play against.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Itâ€™s not the amount of VAR thatâ€™s the problem.
Itâ€™s the time they take and still get the decision wrong.imo.
		
Click to expand...

I agree itâ€™s not the main issue but i think VAR at the moment is frightened to go against the ref decision. Maybe if VAR had just 2 or 3 interventions maximum a game they could then just focus their minds on getting the right decision regardless.


----------



## Dando (Nov 3, 2019)

Itâ€™s nice of sky to show games with the small teams playing


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Good win for Leicester.
They are a nice team to watch as a neutral.
Always look forward, defended really well, young lad put Saha out of the game second half.
Maddison looks better every time I see him.
Vardy must be a nightmare to play against.
		
Click to expand...

Very much agreed with all of this

As a neutral they are delightful to watch 

Playing better football now than when they won the title lol


----------



## GG26 (Nov 3, 2019)

Good win for Leicester, I had a feeling we would do well after securing Tielemans during the Summer.  Have a similar feeling now as when we won the league, but The difference is that Liverpool and Man City are way better than the opposition then.

Top four and Champions League football has to be the (ambitious) target and next week against Arsenal will show if we can maintain the gap to 5th.


----------



## fundy (Nov 3, 2019)

5.7 for Son, hes no Kane or Alli lol


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 3, 2019)

fundy said:



			5.7 for Son, hes no Kane or Alli lol
		
Click to expand...

He has embarrassed himself there.


----------



## fundy (Nov 3, 2019)

5.8 for Richarlinson


----------



## adam6177 (Nov 3, 2019)

It's just Tottenham doing Tottenham things.


----------



## adam6177 (Nov 3, 2019)

fundy said:



			5.7 for Son, hes no Kane or Alli lol
		
Click to expand...

Don't forget rose... The worst of them all.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 3, 2019)

fundy said:



			5.8 for Richarlinson
		
Click to expand...

He obviously puts in more practice than Son â˜¹.

He is our problem player for this and needs to cut it out. I'm disappointed Big Dunc hasn't knocked it out of him.


----------



## fundy (Nov 3, 2019)

Just a joke, 2 teams trying to out cheat each other, try playing football ffs


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 3, 2019)

Richarlison is a real P.O.S. isn't he? Awful.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 3, 2019)

Top finish from Dele! Maybe he should have started up top, we have lacked any presence up there.


----------



## fundy (Nov 3, 2019)

this is clearly a pen so i assume wont be given


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 3, 2019)

fundy said:



			this is clearly a pen so i assume wont be given
		
Click to expand...

Blinkin obvious isn't it.

WTF


----------



## adam6177 (Nov 3, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Blinkin obvious isn't it.

WTF 

Click to expand...

I'm looking forward to the explanation on that one. Absolutely flummoxed.


----------



## Dando (Nov 3, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			I'm looking forward to the explanation on that one. Absolutely flummoxed.
		
Click to expand...

If it hit an Everton arm and they scored from it, it wouldâ€™ve been over turned


----------



## fundy (Nov 3, 2019)

Time for football to have a serious look at itself

VAR just a joke, no rhyme or reason to the decisions that are being made after interminable delays 
Players are diving and cheating more than ever with little punishment


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 3, 2019)

Three whole minutes they watched that for. Do they not know that time is a factor?? You could see from replay number 1 that it hits his arm, all you do then is decide whether it's hand ball under the current rules or not. You don't need to watch it another 15 times.


----------



## fundy (Nov 3, 2019)

oh thats looks horrid


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 3, 2019)

fundy said:



			oh thats looks horrid 

Click to expand...

Only seen it the once and seemed he caught his trailing leg a little late and then did he land awkwardly causing the injury ?

Edit - thatâ€™s not a red card tackle in any form , thatâ€™s poor from Atkinson who has reacted to the injury


----------



## adam6177 (Nov 3, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Only seen it the once and seemed he caught his trailing leg a little late and then did he land awkwardly causing the injury ?
		
Click to expand...

Looks like studs caught in the ground, poor lad.

IMO red card should be overturned.


----------



## Old Skier (Nov 3, 2019)

fundy said:



			oh thats looks horrid 

Click to expand...

Don't look good but the ref gives a yellow card for the tackle, then looks at the injury a changes it to red. It was just a yellow IMO


----------



## fundy (Nov 3, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Only seen it the once and seemed he caught his trailing leg a little late and then did he land awkwardly causing the injury ?
		
Click to expand...

yeah looked like his leg was caught in the ground after the foul. never a red card either, not sure why it wasnt reviewed?


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 3, 2019)

Horrible injury that, but I'm baffled why he sent Son off


----------



## adam6177 (Nov 3, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			Horrible injury that, but I'm baffled why he sent Son off
		
Click to expand...

Reacted to the injury I think


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 3, 2019)

It was not a red but had Son been booked before? I think he had and the challenge perhaps was worthy of a yellow. The red was therefore correct but the suspension may alter if they rescind the straight red.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 3, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			Horrible injury that, but I'm baffled why he sent Son off
		
Click to expand...

Yellow card challenge that. The ref has bottled it and reacted to the injury and the players' reactions. I don't know why they didn't VAR it, they've done about an hour's worth of VAR on everything else.

Sad for Gomes, his ankle is absolutely ruined. Pictures on Twitter for those who aren't squeamish. Spoiler alert - his foot was pointing the wrong way. Horrible.


----------



## fundy (Nov 3, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It was not a red but had Son been booked before? I think he had and the challenge perhaps was worthy of a yellow. The red was therefore correct but the suspension may alter if they rescind the straight red.
		
Click to expand...

no hadnt been booked, ref pulled the yellow card out, saw Gomes leg and changed it for red and VAR doesnt even bother to review it


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 3, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It was not a red but had Son been booked before? I think he had and the challenge perhaps was worthy of a yellow. The red was therefore correct but the suspension may alter if they rescind the straight red.
		
Click to expand...

No, he arguably should have had a yellow for his dive but I don't think he had been booked, he's been given a straight red for that. I suspect we will appeal.


----------



## Bazzatron (Nov 3, 2019)

If only we had a system where someone could watch the challenge back and see if it needed a red card.


----------



## MegaSteve (Nov 3, 2019)

Who gives a toss if the ref got it wrong...

Some poor lad has just suffered a potential career ending injury... How about a bit of thought for him first...


----------



## Dan2501 (Nov 3, 2019)

Andre  Game gone from bad to worse. Should have been a pen (VAR is a joke), and then one of our most important players snaps his leg. Season is cursed. 

Feel for Son too. Clearly wasnâ€™t a red or his fault. Just a terrible for all, hope the red gets cancelled.


----------



## Dan2501 (Nov 3, 2019)

Get in there. That ones for Andre!


----------



## fundy (Nov 3, 2019)

Hows Richarlinson not been sent for multiple dives today?


----------



## Dan2501 (Nov 3, 2019)

Haha. Wish Richarlison would stop diving, could be so much better if he stopped flopping around.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

Horrible injury, I hope it's not a career ending one. 

Feel for Son, he was in distress thinking he'd caused that injury.  Not a very nice position to be in.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 3, 2019)

fundy said:



			Hows Richarlinson not been sent for multiple dives today?
		
Click to expand...

I see the Liverpool boys liked this post but no mention by them of Manes dive yesterday or any other day. 

You couldnâ€™t make it up.ðŸ˜‚


----------



## fundy (Nov 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Horrible injury, I hope it's not a career ending one. 

Feel for Son, he was in distress thinking he'd caused that injury.  Not a very nice position to be in.
		
Click to expand...

only saw it very briefly and dont want to see it again, long road back from that sort of injury 

Son going to feel some guilt even though it wasnt as a direct result of his foul youd think


----------



## GG26 (Nov 3, 2019)

Just hoping for the best for Gomes.


----------



## Jensen (Nov 3, 2019)

Fish said:



			Today Mathew, Iâ€™m going to be an Eagle, and hopefully enjoy some Toffee Moments later ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Well that's Toffee nealy pulled your fillings out ðŸ˜œ


----------



## Fish (Nov 3, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			I see the Liverpool boys liked this post but no mention by them of Manes dive yesterday or any other day.

You couldnâ€™t make it up.ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

I think youâ€™ve got issues you need to see someone about.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			I see the Liverpool boys liked this post but no mention by them of Manes dive yesterday or any other day.

You couldnâ€™t make it up.ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Give it a rest Sean, this type of posting could be seen as trolling. 

For the record I thought the villa player stood on Mane's foot, yes he made a meal of it but there was a pen given via VAR last week for brighton for the same sort of "contact".


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 3, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Yellow card challenge that. The ref has bottled it and reacted to the injury and the players' reactions. I don't know why they didn't VAR it, they've done about an hour's worth of VAR on everything else.

Sad for Gomes, his ankle is absolutely ruined. Pictures on Twitter for those who aren't squeamish. Spoiler alert - his foot was pointing the wrong way. Horrible.
		
Click to expand...

You could see his foot was pointing the wrong way while watching the match, why anyone would want to watch that on twitter is sick.


----------



## Fish (Nov 3, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Well that's Toffee nealy pulled your fillings out ðŸ˜œ
		
Click to expand...

All the talk on the radio about Ali all day, sods law he was going to score.

Big problems at the lane imo, and already knowing thereâ€™s nothing happening in January, I canâ€™t see it suddenly improving anytime soon.


----------



## Wolf (Nov 3, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			I see the Liverpool boys liked this post but no mention by them of Manes dive yesterday or any other day.

You couldnâ€™t make it up.ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

You really need to get over yourself and hate towards the player. Considering this is a different game and what's occurred there's more important things to debate than your pathetic 1 man campaign against Mane. 

On a different note savage injury to Gomes and feel for So, he is in no way responsible for that but will still feel guilty. Hopefully Gomes gets some top level treatment and this hasn't ended his career


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

VAR making it up as it goes along again. 

City had a goal disallowed for the same as Ali's handball. The handball rule is pathetic.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 3, 2019)

Wolf said:



			You really need to get over yourself and hate towards the player. Considering this is a different game and what's occurred there's more important things to debate than your pathetic 1 man campaign against Mane.

On a different note savage injury to Gomes and feel for So, he is in no way responsible for that but will still feel guilty. Hopefully Gomes gets some top level treatment and this hasn't ended his career
		
Click to expand...

Well Son has to take some responsibility for that, he caused the deliberate foul that sent Gomes flying into Aurier and the accidental contact with him it seems caused the damage.

Looked to me also like Son had Gomes card marked after taking one to the face a few minutes prior. Things like that happen all of the time in football but not with so tragic consequences.


----------



## Jensen (Nov 3, 2019)

Fish said:



			All the talk on the radio about Ali all day, sods law he was going to score.

Big problems at the lane imo, and already knowing thereâ€™s nothing happening in January, I canâ€™t see it suddenly improving anytime soon.
		
Click to expand...

It's concerning. Eriksen's shirt doesn't need washing, he didn't  break sweat. He's a passenger who we should offload in January


----------



## adam6177 (Nov 3, 2019)

Jensen said:



			It's concerning. Eriksen's shirt doesn't need washing, he didn't  break sweat. He's a passenger who we should offload in January
		
Click to expand...

Am I right in thinking he can leave for free next summer ?


----------



## Jensen (Nov 3, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			Am I right in thinking he can leave for free next summer ?
		
Click to expand...

Yes he can, which is in the players interest, but not Spurs


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Give it a rest Sean, this type of posting could be seen as trolling.

For the record I thought the villa player stood on Mane's foot, yes he made a meal of it but there was a pen given via VAR last week for brighton for the same sort of "contact".
		
Click to expand...

Stu I've been on the receiving end of some trolling due to this so it wouldn't hurt to acknowledge just once that actually Mane does actually cheat/dive. People make out that l'm making this stuff up.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Well Son has to take some responsibility for that, he caused the deliberate foul that sent Gomes flying into Aurier and the accidental contact with him it seems caused the damage.

Looked to me also like Son had Gomes card marked after taking one to the face a few minutes prior. Things like that happen all of the time in football but not with so tragic consequences.
		
Click to expand...

Have you seen Son's reaction? Do you not think he's already  took responsibility? Those type of tackles happen every week in every game, in every  league around the world. Its unfortunate how its ended.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Stu I've been on the receiving end of some trolling due to this so it wouldn't hurt to acknowledge just once that actually Mane does actually cheat/dive. *People make out that l'm making this stuff up*.
		
Click to expand...

Where's the evidence of this?


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Have you seen Son's reaction? Do you not think he's already  took responsibility? Those type of tackles happen every week in every game, in every  league around the world. Its unfortunate how its ended.
		
Click to expand...

Of course its very unfortunate and I feel for both Gomes and Son. 

You quote me out of context, read it again. Son himself will no doubt feel partly responsible as he made the foul that triggered the accidental crash into Aurier.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Where's the evidence of this?
		
Click to expand...

Read the thread lol its there.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Of course its very unfortunate and I feel for both Gomes and Son.

You quote me out of context, read it again. Son himself will no doubt feel partly responsible as he made the foul that triggered the accidental crash into Aurier.
		
Click to expand...

*Well Son has to take some responsibility for that, he caused the deliberate foul that sent Gomes flying into Aurier and the accidental contact with him it seems caused the damage.*

The above is what you posted. I haven't quoted out of context at all, I asked whether you'd seen Sons reaction. He accepted responsibility there and then, imo he was very very unlucky.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Read the thread lol its there.
		
Click to expand...

No. Its your complaint, prove it. Otherwise you're just spouting rubbish.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 3, 2019)

How can the ref show yellow and then choose red after he saw the extent of the injury? If thats really what happened then thats a joke.

It just goes to show that the referees decision is shaped by the reaction and/or consequences of the foul rather than the foul itself. More the reason why players should not exaggerate contact as it can deceive some referees.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



*Well Son has to take some responsibility for that, he caused the deliberate foul that sent Gomes flying into Aurier and the accidental contact with him it seems caused the damage.*

The above is what you posted. I haven't quoted out of context at all, I asked whether you'd seen Sons reaction. He accepted responsibility there and then, imo he was very very unlucky.
		
Click to expand...

No its out of contect because you didnt include what I was commenting on.

"You really need to get over yourself and hate towards the player. Considering this is a different game and what's occurred there's more important things to debate than your pathetic 1 man campaign against Mane.

On a different note savage injury to Gomes and feel for *Son, he is in no way responsible for that but will still feel guilty*. Hopefully Gomes gets some top level treatment and this hasn't ended his career"

Then my reply was 

"Well Son has to take some responsibility for that, he caused the deliberate foul that sent Gomes flying into Aurier and the accidental contact with him it seems caused the damage."


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			How can the ref show yellow and then choose red after he saw the extent of the injury? If thats really what happened then thats a joke.

*It just goes to show that the referees decision is shaped by the reaction and/or consequences of the foul rather than the foul itself. More the reason why players should not exaggerate contact as it can deceive some referees*.
		
Click to expand...

He cant and should rightfully be marked down by the matchday assessor.  Punish the foul and not the outcome.

That's been happening for 25yrs, even throughout Arsenals  invincible era it was happening most weeks.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			No its out of contect because you didnt include what I was commenting on.

"*You really need to get over yourself and hate towards the player. Considering this is a different game and what's occurred there's more important things to debate than your pathetic 1 man campaign against Mane.*

On a different note savage injury to Gomes and feel for *Son, he is in no way responsible for that but will still feel guilty*. Hopefully Gomes gets some top level treatment and this hasn't ended his career"

Then my reply was

"Well Son has to take some responsibility for that, he caused the deliberate foul that sent Gomes flying into Aurier and the accidental contact with him it seems caused the damage."
		
Click to expand...

I never said that, it was someone else ðŸ˜


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 3, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			You could see his foot was pointing the wrong way while watching the match, why anyone would want to watch that on twitter is sick.
		
Click to expand...

I actually missed it when it happened and they didn't show a replay for ages, I only looked it up to figure out why Son had been sent off. There still wasn't any detailed replay of him breaking the ankle either because they never showed that on telly anyway.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			He cant and should rightfully be marked down by the matchday assessor.  Punish the foul and not the outcome.

That's been happening for 25yrs, *even throughout Arsenals  invincible era it was happening most weeks*.
		
Click to expand...

Hey that's trolling but I will let it go.

Agreed, the red needs to be rescinded as Son was punished unfairly because of the freakish outcome. 

Ref needs to be pulled up for that but he probably wont be.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I never said that, it was someone else ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...


Lol I know but you left it out which was rather important.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Hey that's trolling but I will let it go.

Agreed, the red needs to be rescinded as Son was punished unfairly because of the freakish outcome.

Ref needs to be pulled up for that but he probably wont be.
		
Click to expand...

It's not actually, its reference to research to back up my point of view. 

Now If I mentioned it every day for the next 6 months then yeah it would be trolling. 

I can see similarities between you and LP, really nice fellas in real life but as soon as you long onto the forum you become an irritating nuisance ðŸ˜‰


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 3, 2019)

Very sad to see the horrific injury and you can tell from Son's reaction there was absolutely no intent to inflict any sort of pain let alone a possible career ender. Good job Everton have a 3 point gap as they still don't fill me with confidence. Is Silva on borrowed time but who would come in (or who would Everton fans want). Definitely a better point for Spurs (imo) but again think there still issues there. 

Aside from that, another win for Leicester and up to 3rd. I don't for a minute think they've any chance of winning another title but can see them definitely getting Europa league football next year. Surely they can't hold on for a CL place?


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 3, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Very sad to see the horrific injury and you can tell from Son's reaction there was absolutely no intent to inflict any sort of pain let alone a possible career ender. Good job Everton have a 3 point gap as they still don't fill me with confidence. Is Silva on borrowed time but who would come in (or who would Everton fans want). Definitely a better point for Spurs (imo) but again think there still issues there. 

Aside from that, another win for Leicester and up to 3rd. I don't for a minute think they've any chance of winning another title but can see them definitely getting Europa league football next year. Surely they can't hold on for a CL place?
		
Click to expand...

Shall we crown them champs now guru ðŸ˜†ðŸ¤£


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			It's not actually, its reference to research to back up my point of view.

Now If I mentioned it every day for the next 6 months then yeah it would be trolling.

I can see similarities between you and LP, really nice fellas in real life but as soon as you long onto the forum you become an irritating nuisance ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

There you go again thatâ€™s more trolling, youâ€™re so bad you donâ€™t even know youâ€™re doing it. 

Lighten up mate I promise never to mention Mane and cheating in the same post ever again. ðŸ˜—


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 3, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I actually missed it when it happened and they didn't show a replay for ages, I only looked it up to figure out why Son had been sent off. There still wasn't any detailed replay of him breaking the ankle either because they never showed that on telly anyway.
		
Click to expand...

That's fair enough ,but even though you gave warnings of the content you still told people they could see pictures of the incident on twitter.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 3, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Very sad to see the horrific injury and you can tell from Son's reaction there was absolutely no intent to inflict any sort of pain let alone a possible career ender. Good job Everton have a 3 point gap as they still don't fill me with confidence. Is Silva on borrowed time but who would come in (or who would Everton fans want). Definitely a better point for Spurs (imo) but again think there still issues there.

Aside from that, another win for Leicester and up to 3rd. I don't for a minute think they've any chance of winning another title but can see them definitely getting Europa league football next year. Surely they can't hold on for a CL place?
		
Click to expand...

At the moment I'm not sure who is challenging Leicester for 4th. 3rd and 4th looks a straight fight between Leicester and Chelsea, everyone else, on current form, are also rans.

Yes, Silva is on borrowed time. We need a win against Southampton next week as after that is an international break. Just enough time for a twitchy owner to sack a manager and get a new one in. I'm not saying that is the right move but I'd be nervous if I was him. The obvious move, imo, would be for Arteta. Ex player, in the area already as assistant to Pep. Ready for the next stage in his career. Whether he is up for a dog fight, our December fixture list is grim, I'm not sure. It may be the wrong timing for him.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 3, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			At the moment I'm not sure who is challenging Leicester for 4th. 3rd and 4th looks a straight fight between Leicester and Chelsea, everyone else, on current form, are also rans.

Yes, Silva is on borrowed time. We need a win against Southampton next week as after that is an international break. Just enough time for a twitchy owner to sack a manager and get a new one in. I'm not saying that is the right move but I'd be nervous if I was him. The obvious move, imo, would be for Arteta. Ex player, in the area already as assistant to Pep. Ready for the next stage in his career. Whether he is up for a dog fight, our December fixture list is grim, I'm not sure. It may be the wrong timing for him.
		
Click to expand...

Can you really see Everton going down? Think Watford and Norwich are going to be in big trouble and can't see them getting out of it. With Southampton 3 points behind it has the feel of a real relegation 6 pointer next week. Win that and its a far more comfortable gap. Arteta in the summer as manager?


----------



## fundy (Nov 3, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			At the moment I'm not sure who is challenging Leicester for 4th. 3rd and 4th looks a straight fight between Leicester and Chelsea, everyone else, on current form, are also rans.

Yes, Silva is on borrowed time. We need a win against Southampton next week as after that is an international break. Just enough time for a twitchy owner to sack a manager and get a new one in. I'm not saying that is the right move but I'd be nervous if I was him. The obvious move, imo, would be for Arteta. Ex player, in the area already as assistant to Pep. Ready for the next stage in his career. Whether he is up for a dog fight, our December fixture list is grim, I'm not sure. It may be the wrong timing for him.
		
Click to expand...


If you beat Saints and we lose at Leicester Emery might beat Silva in the sack race during the international break


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 3, 2019)

fundy said:



			If you beat Saints and we lose at Leicester Emery might beat Silva in the sack race during the international break 

Click to expand...

Saw a lot of paper talk today of Mourinho being linked to the Arsenal job


----------



## fundy (Nov 3, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Saw a lot of paper talk today of Mourinho being linked to the Arsenal job
		
Click to expand...


been about for a few weeks, rumour Sanelhi had dinner with him, not sure if true or not. wouldnt be my choice albeit at least he might address the defensive issues!


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			There you go again thatâ€™s more trolling, youâ€™re so bad you donâ€™t even know youâ€™re doing it.

Lighten up mate I promise never to mention Mane and cheating in the same post ever again. ðŸ˜—
		
Click to expand...

I havent got time to practice, but you've given me lots of pointers ðŸ˜‚


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 3, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Saw a lot of paper talk today of Mourinho being linked to the Arsenal job
		
Click to expand...

It could happen but I donâ€™t want it to.

Emery under a lot of pressure but I think he will survive the season at least. Iâ€™m hoping he can turn it around he deserves time, 18 months isnâ€™t enough.

I heard that Ozil is not training very well which is stopping Emery picking him. This isnâ€™t going down very well with the powers that be and if rumours are true that Emery was told (against his wishes) to play Ozil then that doesnâ€™t bode very well. 

Emery may well walk before getting pushed.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 3, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			It could happen but I donâ€™t want it to.

Emery under a lot of pressure but I think he will survive the season at least. Iâ€™m hoping he can turn it around he deserves time, 18 months isnâ€™t enough.

I heard that Ozil is not training very well which is stopping Emery picking him. This isnâ€™t going down very well with the powers that be and if rumours are true that Emery was told (against his wishes) to play Ozil then that doesnâ€™t bode very well.

Emery may well walk before getting pushed.
		
Click to expand...

Can't see him walking. I know you keep going on about 18 months not being long enough to fix the Wenger problems but its a result driven profession and ultimately a business and surely CL is the target for the board at least.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I havent got time to practice, but you've given me lots of pointers ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Me and Phil are amateurs, the best trollers get away with it. ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 3, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Can you really see Everton going down? Think Watford and Norwich are going to be in big trouble and can't see them getting out of it. With Southampton 3 points behind it has the feel of a real relegation 6 pointer next week. Win that and its a far more comfortable gap. Arteta in the summer as manager?
		
Click to expand...

No I don't see us in that sort of trouble. It's looking like a wasted season though, a season that is up for grabs and we have chucked it away. Lots of money spent, no real improvement seen, quite the opposite. He had a good pattern of play by the end of last season. That has disappeared this year.

I don't mind iffy results if I can see progress or a direction we are heading in. Not sure I can a direction right now, not an effective one.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 3, 2019)

A pal of mine has just sent me a picture of the injury. God almighty it dont look good.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 3, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			I agree itâ€™s not the main issue but i think VAR at the moment is frightened to go against the ref decision. Maybe if VAR had just 2 or 3 interventions maximum a game they could then just focus their minds on getting the right decision regardless.
		
Click to expand...

They should focus on all decisions !


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 3, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			It could happen but I donâ€™t want it to.

Emery under a lot of pressure but I think he will survive the season at least. Iâ€™m hoping he can turn it around he deserves time, 18 months isnâ€™t enough.

I heard that Ozil is not training very well which is stopping Emery picking him. This isnâ€™t going down very well with the powers that be and if rumours are true that Emery was told (against his wishes) to play Ozil then that doesnâ€™t bode very well.

Emery may well walk before getting pushed.
		
Click to expand...

Emery has lost the dressing room. Players are clueless as to what he wants, players are liking Emery out tweets, he is bog average, and has to go. 
He has alienated Ozil, and from what I hear, he is training fine, but Emery doesn't like him, along with Torreira. Emery will lose this battle, it is just about how much damage he is allowed to do before they pull the plug.

Mourinho? No, thanks, but this is following Uniteds mistakes. He is done at elite level. Lets move on and break new ground please.


----------



## TheDiablo (Nov 3, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No I don't see us in that sort of trouble. It's looking like a wasted season though, a season that is up for grabs and we have chucked it away. Lots of money spent, no real improvement seen, quite the opposite. He had a good pattern of play by the end of last season. That has disappeared this year.

I don't mind iffy results if I can see progress or a direction we are heading in. Not sure I can a direction right now, not an effective one.
		
Click to expand...

I saw a post/tweet the other day that summed it up really well for me. Something like... 

Leicester are the team that Everton thought they would be a year ago.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 3, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			I see the Liverpool boys liked this post but no mention by them of Manes dive yesterday or any other day.

You couldnâ€™t make it up.ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Post 4607 will show you are wrong.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 3, 2019)

Horrible injury.
But have put my crash hat on and must say I am siding with Sawtooth ( canâ€™t belive it) 
I have been saying for years this sort of tackle needs stamping out .
Son played the man NOT the ball , it was a matter of time before this happened.
All â€œ unprofessional fouls â€œ where there is no intention of playing the ball should be red.
The ball was nowhere near Gomez when Son hacked him down.
And I donâ€™t feel sorry for Son that was abysmal.

Hope Gomez heals ok he is the one I feel sorry for.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 3, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			That's fair enough ,but even though you gave warnings of the content you still told people they could see pictures of the incident on twitter.
		
Click to expand...

Well I'm not squeamish and I wouldn't judge anyone else for wanting to see what happened. I read earlier they're not going to show it on match of the day either.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			No no no and no. How would that help refs and improve the game? Scrap VAR until the standard of refereeing has improved. The only way to do that is improve the quality and not just be happy with the likes of Moss, Friend, Mason, Tierney etc

I'm pretty certain if you were paying Â£1k a season to go the game you'd have a completely different view on VAR.
		
Click to expand...

So shall we get referees from space then? 

The whole dynamic of VAR is wrong, instead of the ref on the pitch or the one at Stockley deciding when to use it, take it out their hands, 3 reviews per game to be decided by the captain of the team within 30 seconds.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 3, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			So shall we get referees from space then?

The whole dynamic of VAR is wrong, instead of the ref on the pitch or the one at Stockley deciding when to use it, take it out their hands, 3 reviews per game to be decided by the captain of the team within 30 seconds.
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s no guarantee they would get the decisions right though!
If you used one of your calls and they didnâ€™t give a pen like Everton today you would not be happy.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Horrible injury.
But have put my crash hat on and must say I am siding with Sawtooth ( canâ€™t belive it) 
I have been saying for years this sort of tackle needs stamping out .
Son played the man NOT the ball , it was a matter of time before this happened.
All â€œ unprofessional fouls â€œ where there is no intention of playing the ball should be red.
The ball was nowhere near Gomez when Son hacked him down.
And I donâ€™t feel sorry for Son that was abysmal.

Hope Gomez heals ok he is the one I feel sorry for.
		
Click to expand...

Son is one of the nicest guys in football, there's no doubt in my mind it was simply a late sliding challenge with no malicious intent. Unless he comes out and says otherwise. It was simply appalling luck that he snapped his ankle on the ground while off balance. There are 10 or 12 tackles like that every game. People get tackles wrong and they get booked. The injury was extremely unfortunate.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Horrible injury.
But have put my crash hat on and must say I am siding with Sawtooth ( canâ€™t belive it) 
I have been saying for years this sort of tackle needs stamping out .
Son played the man NOT the ball , it was a matter of time before this happened.
All â€œ unprofessional fouls â€œ where there is no intention of playing the ball should be red.
The ball was nowhere near Gomez when Son hacked him down.
And I donâ€™t feel sorry for Son that was abysmal.

Hope Gomez heals ok he is the one I feel sorry for.
		
Click to expand...

I don't feel sorry for son either tbh. He has a real nasty streak in his game.. he isn't a saint at all. Yes in this case he may not have meant it but he leaves dirty tackles in now and again so you can't be shocked when you actually hurt someone.

When we beat spurs last season he left a nasty late stamp on snodgrasses ankle when he "won" the ball , clearly meant it and knew what he was doing but in such a way to get away with it. 

Only matter of time before someone got hurt


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 3, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Son is one of the nicest guys in football, there's no doubt in my mind it was simply a late sliding challenge with no malicious intent. Unless he comes out and says otherwise. It was simply appalling luck that he snapped his ankle on the ground while off balance. There are 10 or 12 tackles like that every game. People get tackles wrong and they get booked. The injury was extremely unfortunate.
		
Click to expand...

Disagree he's got a proper nasty streak in him which he just hides behind the nice guy imagine


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 3, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			A pal of mine has just sent me a picture of the injury. God almighty it dont look good.
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully it looks worse than it is.
A break never looks good.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thatâ€™s no guarantee they would get the decisions right though!
If you used one of your calls and they didnâ€™t give a pen like Everton today you would not be happy.
		
Click to expand...

No different to the risk in Cricket etc, but the players on the field are likely to be more aware of what is an actual offence and when to appeal and when not.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 3, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			No different to the risk in Cricket etc, but the players on the field are likely to be more aware of what is an actual offence and when to appeal and when not.
		
Click to expand...

But in cricket, if they don't appeal the umpire cannot give them out. It also leads to excessive appealing by certain players or nations.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 3, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			But in cricket, if they don't appeal the umpire cannot give them out. It also leads to excessive appealing by certain players or nations.
		
Click to expand...

Hence the idea of limited appeals, and it still wouldnâ€™t stop the Ref making decisions. Not suggesting we copy cricket, just possibly learn from them.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 3, 2019)

The stamp I was talking about, over the top. Left the player in on the floor. Yet son runs away all innocent oh I didn't realize I stamped on you

The ball is out of the picture behind cleared up field btw so not even on the ball


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 3, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Son is one of the nicest guys in football, there's no doubt in my mind it was simply a late sliding challenge with no malicious intent. Unless he comes out and says otherwise. It was simply appalling luck that he snapped his ankle on the ground while off balance. There are 10 or 12 tackles like that every game. People get tackles wrong and they get booked. The injury was extremely unfortunate.
		
Click to expand...

Nice guys donâ€™t hack people down, ball was nowhere to be seen.
If thatâ€™s what you belive fine .
I canâ€™t stand this â€œHeâ€™s not that type of playerâ€ when he has just put somebodyâ€™s career in dought.
He is as are all footballers that commit â€œprofessional fouls â€œ thatâ€™s how I saw it.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 3, 2019)

Son deliberately takes Gomes out knowing he is no-where near the ball. It's a cheap shot, and worthy of a long ban.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 3, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Son deliberately takes Gomes out knowing he is no-where near the ball. It's a cheap shot, and worthy of a long ban.
		
Click to expand...

Not to mention his lash out Vs bournmouth that got him a red... That spurs tried to defend because the player had fouled him a few times and got away with it

And apparently today Gomez had elbowed him in the face

He is a player with a history of seeking out on pitch revenge 

No where near the nice guy he seems


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 3, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 28483


The stamp I was talking about, over the top. Left the player in on the floor. Yet son runs away all innocent oh I didn't realize I stamped on you

The ball is out of the picture behind cleared up field btw so not even on the ball
		
Click to expand...

Whereâ€™s the ball???? 
Thatâ€™s so late the balls not even in the picture.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Whereâ€™s the ball???? 
Thatâ€™s so late the balls not even in the picture.
		
Click to expand...

If I remember correctly rice had the ball and was playing it up field after receiving it from Snodgrass


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 3, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Son deliberately takes Gomes out knowing he is no-where near the ball. It's a cheap shot, and worthy of a long ban.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but that's absolute rubbish. 

Son's tackle was late but no way was it "a cheap shot".


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			So shall we get referees from space then?

The whole dynamic of VAR is wrong, instead of the ref on the pitch or the one at Stockley deciding when to use it, take it out their hands, 3 reviews per game to be decided by the captain of the team within 30 seconds.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, they'll be better than the clowns we've currently got.

I said this in the previous conversation we had, let's start with getting rid of the inept refs and  start blooding newer refs in.  

When was the last time a PL ref was dropped from PL rota? 

Until then, we'll just stumble into an oblivion with this crop of refs winging it. 

Riley, one of the worst PL refs ever is in charge of these muppets and until he goes they'll continue serving up what they're doing now. 

Your idea of taking  it out of the refs hands isn't fit for purpose in football.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 3, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			Sorry but that's absolute rubbish.

Son's tackle was late but no way was it "a cheap shot".
		
Click to expand...

Ive watched the clip, and the ball is well past Son when he deliberately takes his feet.
What else is it?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 3, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Stu I've been on the receiving end of some trolling due to this so it wouldn't hurt to acknowledge just once that actually Mane does actually cheat/dive. People make out that l'm making this stuff up.
		
Click to expand...

No we're not. Mane does dive and he also exaggerates contact, but you only bark on about him all the time when tonnes of other players also do it.

Fecking boring.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 3, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			No different to the risk in Cricket etc, but the players on the field are likely to be more aware of what is an actual offence and when to appeal and when not.
		
Click to expand...

I think every player and supporters could see Aliâ€™s hand ball but the ref and Shockley didnâ€™t.
Appeals will not sort out the decisions.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 3, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Ive watched the clip, and the ball is well past Son when he deliberately takes his feet.
What else is it?
		
Click to expand...

And I watched the game including the tackle in real time. 

A cheap shot is an attempt to hurt the other player with no risk of getting hurt yourself. 

It is not a simple mistimed tackle.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think every player and supporters could see Aliâ€™s hand ball but the ref and Shockley didnâ€™t.
Appeals will not sort out the decisions.
		
Click to expand...

The handball rule change is pathetic. That isnt a pen imo. It's not deliberate.

It also looked like it came off Mina's shoulder and onto his hand. 

Onto the offsides, we seem to be going away from why offside was brought in. Pathetic.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah, they'll be better than the clowns we've currently got.

I said this in the previous conversation we had, let's start with getting rid of the inept refs and  start blooding newer refs in.  

When was the last time a PL ref was dropped from PL rota? 

Until then, we'll just stumble into an oblivion with this crop of refs winging it. 

Riley, one of the worst PL refs ever is in charge of these muppets and until he goes they'll continue serving up what they're doing now. 

Your idea of taking  it out of the refs hands isn't fit for purpose in football.
		
Click to expand...

Complaining about refs is immemorial, you live in cloud cuckoo-land if you think that there are 20 refs out there who will be amazing, with the speed of the game now, technology is needed its just being mis-used in application and for me a major improvement would be a limit of 6 uses a game, 3 on each side.

You could also use it to get cheats sent off. Just say, oo, I dont know....Mane did two dives, opposing captain gets VAR to review, he gets a red - it can also cut down on cheating.

If a player fouls someone clearly, and a pen given, the captain of the side who fouled could ask his full back - "did you take him out", defender sayd yes TBH, so the capatin wont use a review up.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The handball rule change is pathetic. That isnt a pen imo. It's not deliberate.

It also looked like it came off Mina's shoulder and onto his hand.

Onto the offsides, we seem to be going away from why offside was brought in. Pathetic.
		
Click to expand...

Look where his hand is ,thatâ€™s a pen for me.
He clearly diverts the flight of the ball.

Totally agree the offside.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thatâ€™s no guarantee they would get the decisions right though!
If you used one of your calls and they didnâ€™t give a pen like Everton today you would not be happy.
		
Click to expand...

No system is perfect, but some more than others.

Like at the cricket, you get 30 seconds to decide, time to ask your own players who may actually admit things. You have 3 so use them wisely, who knows in some matches you may only use 1 or 2 of them.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 3, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			No system is perfect, but some more than others.

Like at the cricket, you get 30 seconds to decide, time to ask your own players who may actually admit things. You have 3 so use them wisely, who knows in some matches you may only use 1 or 2 of them.
		
Click to expand...

Getting a player to admit he fouled someone???
Canâ€™t see that catching on.
What happens if he already has a yellow ? He would get himself sent off!
Canâ€™t really see an answer except better refs but as you say , where are they coming from?
The lower league ones canâ€™t be any worse.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 3, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			No system is perfect, but some more than others.

Like at the cricket, you get 30 seconds to decide, time to ask your own players who may actually admit things. You have 3 so use them wisely, who knows in some matches you may only use 1 or 2 of them.
		
Click to expand...

I think that time is the key factor in this whole debate. If it is taking 4/5 minutes to make a decision then you aren't correcting a "clear and obvious" error. If VAR has spent 30/45/60 seconds looking at an incident and still hasn't made a decision then it's obviously not clear and obvious and you should stay with the on field decision.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Getting a player to admit he fouled someone???
Canâ€™t see that catching on.
What happens if he already has a yellow ? He would get himself sent off!
Canâ€™t really see an answer except better refs but as you say , where are they coming from?
The lower league ones canâ€™t be any worse.
		
Click to expand...

To his own captain yes.

2-0 up 10 mins to go, 2 reviews already used up when his own defender whacks someone, captain asks his own defender "did you take him out" , defender says yes so that his team dont use up their last review. Simples.

Its like batsmen at Cricket sometimes they use them up selfishly and unwisely, and I'm sure if they carry on doing it the captain will have a word with them.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 3, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			I don't feel sorry for son either tbh. He has a real nasty streak in his game.. he isn't a saint at all. Yes in this case he may not have meant it but he leaves dirty tackles in now and again so you can't be shocked when you actually hurt someone.

When we beat spurs last season he left a nasty late stamp on snodgrasses ankle when he "won" the ball , clearly meant it and knew what he was doing but in such a way to get away with it.

Only matter of time before someone got hurt
		
Click to expand...

I really don't think a late nick on one of your precious West Ham players makes him the Korean Roy Keane all of a sudden but ok.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Getting a player to admit he fouled someone???
Canâ€™t see that catching on.
What happens if he already has a yellow ? He would get himself sent off!
Canâ€™t really see an answer except better refs but as you say , where are they coming from?
The lower league ones canâ€™t be any worse.
		
Click to expand...

If a Captain asks a defender if there was contact and the defender say no which makes the Captain appeal and then VAR shows there is contact, how do you think the Captain is going to react in the dressing room.

Weâ€™re not talking about the conversation being broadcast, players will be policing themselves.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 3, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			I think that time is the key factor in this whole debate. If it is taking 4/5 minutes to make a decision then you aren't correcting a "clear and obvious" error. If VAR has spent 30/45/60 seconds looking at an incident and still hasn't made a decision then it's obviously not clear and obvious and you should stay with the on field decision.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, especially when Stockley are using blag and bent lines to rule goals out for us.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 3, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			If a Captain asks a defender if there was contact and the defender say no which makes the Captain appeal and then VAR shows there is contact, how do you think the Captain is going to react in the dressing room.

Weâ€™re not talking about the conversation being broadcast, players will be policing themselves.
		
Click to expand...

Correct, who knows may even get an out break of honesty (to his own captain only).


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Complaining about refs is immemorial, you live in cloud cuckoo-land if you think that there are 20 refs out there who will be amazing, with the speed of the game now, technology is needed its just being mis-used in application and for me a major improvement would be a limit of 6 uses a game, 3 on each side.

You could also use it to get cheats sent off. Just say, oo, I dont know....Mane did two dives, opposing captain gets VAR to review, he gets a red - it can also cut down on cheating.

If a player fouls someone clearly, and a pen given, the captain of the side who fouled could ask his full back - "did you take him out", defender sayd yes TBH, so the capatin wont use a review up.
		
Click to expand...

I absolutely do believe theres better refs out there than Tierney, Moss, Friend, Mason to name a few. Those 4 alone have overstayed their welcome as a PL elite ref.

I agree the refs need help with technology to an extent but do you really believe this current crop of officials are using the technology correctly?  I also accept refs will make mistakes, theyve got VAR now and are still making mistakes but at least the mistakes are being made in that moment. 

Was football really that bad in recent seasons to have to go to were we are today with it?

It was brought in for clear and obvious, not subjective decisions. 

We're trying to run before we can walk with it. Get rid of Riley, appoint a respected ex ref and let's start weeding the crap out. Then let's evolve VAR.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			If a Captain asks a defender if there was contact and the defender say no which makes the Captain appeal and then VAR shows there is contact, how do you think the Captain is going to react in the dressing room.

Weâ€™re not talking about the conversation being broadcast, players will be policing themselves.
		
Click to expand...

What a player deems as a good tackle a ref will deem it a foul. Whose right or wrong?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			What a player deems as a good tackle a ref will deem it a foul. Whose right or wrong?
		
Click to expand...

At the moment the clown in charge of VAR does.

Letâ€™s not pretend players donâ€™t cheat, but if the player tells his Captain it was a clean tackle then he can decide an appeal or the Captain will of probably seen the tackle and agree with the Ref.

At least it gives the teams some input/control, currently they have none.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

Choudhury tackle on Salah was worse than Son's tonight and the same ref has given 2 different cards. 

Obviously the outcome of the injury was different but nevertheless.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			At the moment the clown in charge of VAR does.

Letâ€™s not pretend players donâ€™t cheat, but if the player tells his Captain it was a clean tackle then he can decide an appeal or the Captain will of probably seen the tackle and agree with the Ref.

At least it gives the teams some input/control, currently they have none.
		
Click to expand...

No team should have input/control of the ref. They're there as impartial referees. 

Remember footballers arent the most intelligent of people. Let's have a game were players play, refs ref and players respect refs.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			No team should have input/control of the ref. They're there as impartial referees.

Remember footballers arent the most intelligent of people. Let's have a game were players play, refs ref and players respect refs.
		
Click to expand...

Respect has to be earned and you are one of their biggest critics, they arenâ€™t going to get respect when so few are trusted, they need help.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 3, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Respect has to be earned and you are one of their biggest critics, they arenâ€™t going to get respect when so few are trusted, they need help.
		
Click to expand...

Do all rugby refs earn respect? Or is it instilled into the players from a young age?

I criticise refs but my opinion, like yours,doesnt matter. The media need to respect the refs too, they peddle a lot of the issues.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 3, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			If a Captain asks a defender if there was contact and the defender say no which makes the Captain appeal and then VAR shows there is contact, how do you think the Captain is going to react in the dressing room.

Weâ€™re not talking about the conversation being broadcast, players will be policing themselves.
		
Click to expand...

I am not dismissing the idea.
I am all for anything at the moment.
I was in favour of VAR but they have made a complete mess of it.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			What a player deems as a good tackle a ref will deem it a foul. Whose right or wrong?
		
Click to expand...

Exactly.
Couple of players have seen red for excessive force even though they got the ball first.
But bring someone down from behind nowhere near the ball ( professional foul) yellow .
How is  that right.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 4, 2019)

According to motd the severity of the injury is taken into account now!!
So you can get red for almost any tackle if the opponent hurts himself.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I really don't think a late nick on one of your precious West Ham players makes him the Korean Roy Keane all of a sudden but ok. 

Click to expand...





Look at the picture again, ignore the fact it's west ham for a minute. Rice has the ball in that pic. Snodgrass no longer has it.. son has "tackled" him without the ball full stop. Stamping on his ankle. Could have seriously injured him.

Then against Bournemouth son gets sent off for lashing out at one of their players. It's said it's because he had a few fouls on him let go and it was frustration....

Yesterday it's said oh Gomez elbowed him in the face.

So we have a player with a history of looking for on the pitch retaliation.. clean players don't do that.

You mention Roy Keane.. he did leave late tackles in.. but he didn't hide it...you knew he was a dirty bugger.

However son hides behind the lovely guy routine 

Doesn't wash


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 4, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 28485


Look at the picture again, ignore the fact it's west ham for a minute. Rice has the ball in that pic. Snodgrass no longer has it.. son has "tackled" him without the ball full stop. Stamping on his ankle. Could have seriously injured him.

Then against Bournemouth son gets sent off for lashing out at one of their players. It's said it's because he had a few fouls on him let go and it was frustration....

Yesterday it's said oh Gomez elbowed him in the face.

So we have a player with a history of looking for on the pitch retaliation.. clean players don't do that.

You mention Roy Keane.. he did leave late tackles in.. but he didn't hide it...you knew he was a dirty bugger.

However son hides behind the lovely guy routine

Doesn't wash
		
Click to expand...

A still photo is extremely misleading. 

In the one shown it equally appears that Snodgrass has only just played the ball so Son's challenge is not that sinister. 

Also players unfortunately get their feet and ankles trodden on as a result of mistimed tackles. It doesn't mean that there is an intention to hurt the opponent.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 4, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Yesterday it's said oh Gomez elbowed him in the face.

So we have a player with a history of looking for on the pitch retaliation.. clean players don't do that.
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s how it looked to me as soon as it happened. Son got a slap in the face earlier and then wanted to retaliate. Again must stress for pedants, he did not mean to cause harm like that to the player, it was a freak collision later with Aurier that did that.

I donâ€™t agree with your last point though , just because someone retaliates does not make that player dirty - necessarily.

Talking from experience I would never go out to hurt or even foul someone on purpose but if I was deliberately whacked I would give it back later if I had the chance. Itâ€™s human nature I think.


----------



## Hobbit (Nov 4, 2019)

Was Son giving out some afters, or was he chasing back and mistimed the tackle? Is his recent history down to clumsy tackles or is he cynical? Only Son can answer the first question. As for the second question; All Premiership players can tackle, some better than others. Son isn't afraid to dish it out.

Should it have been a red card? Yes, because of what it led to. If the threat of a red leads to better tackles, and reduces the chances of injuries like we saw yesterday, it should be in the ref's armoury.

VAR; its needed in the game but the people using it need some guidelines. It takes seconds to look at an incident, and seconds more to review it twice. Make a decision, and move on. And to improve the excitement, when there's a highly debatable offside, always give it to the attacking side. I'm against giving captains/managers 3 reviews, like cricket. Football is played at pace, and pace can be an advantage. Stopping a team taking a quick free kick, allowing a team to get 11 men behind the ball by using a review - no.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 4, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			A still photo is extremely misleading. 

In the one shown it equally appears that Snodgrass has only just played the ball so Son's challenge is not that sinister. 

Also players unfortunately get their feet and ankles trodden on as a result of mistimed tackles. It doesn't mean that there is an intention to hurt the opponent.
		
Click to expand...

I watched the game, the ball was long gone and he continued running (ample time to stop) and made the "tackle"

Even the pundits said he was lucky and next season they would expect VAR to pick that up.

Little did they know VAR would fail lol


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 4, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			I watched the game, the ball was long gone and he continued running (ample time to stop) and made the "tackle"

Even the pundits said he was lucky and next season they would expect VAR to pick that up.

Little did they know VAR would fail lol
		
Click to expand...

If the ball was long gone why was Snodgrass still in the position of someone who has just released the ball?


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 4, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			If the ball was long gone why was Snodgrass still in the position of someone who has just released the ball?
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1123260883206070272
Judge for yourself 

Balls gone, plenty of time to stop.. turns away to hide the fact he's caught him

If he was this nice guy he portrays he would have helped Snodgrass up, sorry for that didn't mean to catch you

He knew exactly what he was doing


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 4, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 28485


Look at the picture again, ignore the fact it's west ham for a minute. Rice has the ball in that pic. Snodgrass no longer has it.. son has "tackled" him without the ball full stop. Stamping on his ankle. Could have seriously injured him.

Then against Bournemouth son gets sent off for lashing out at one of their players. It's said it's because he had a few fouls on him let go and it was frustration....

Yesterday it's said oh Gomez elbowed him in the face.

So we have a player with a history of looking for on the pitch retaliation.. clean players don't do that.

You mention Roy Keane.. he did leave late tackles in.. but he didn't hide it...you knew he was a dirty bugger.

However son hides behind the lovely guy routine

Doesn't wash
		
Click to expand...

Donâ€™t know about the tackle but either Snodgrass has a very big head or that picture has been photo shopped ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 4, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			Donâ€™t know about the tackle but either Snodgrass has a very big head or that picture has been photo shopped ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

100% massive head old Snodgrass


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 4, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			100% massive head old Snodgrass
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚. Youâ€™re right looks like Son did deliberately tread on his toes.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 4, 2019)

Perhaps its time to follow rugbys rules where a late or off the ball tackle results in a yellow card and 10 mins in the sin bin.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 4, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			ðŸ˜‚. Youâ€™re right looks like Son did deliberately tread on his toes.
		
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong Snodgrass prob deserved it lol he winds people up on the pitch. However can't buy that sons this 100% nice guy .. nicest man in football 

He's got a nasty streak


----------



## TheDiablo (Nov 4, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Was Son giving out some afters, or was he chasing back and mistimed the tackle? Is his recent history down to clumsy tackles or is he cynical? Only Son can answer the first question. As for the second question; All Premiership players can tackle, some better than others. Son isn't afraid to dish it out.

Should it have been a red card? Yes, because of what it led to. If the threat of a red leads to better tackles, and reduces the chances of injuries like we saw yesterday, it should be in the ref's armoury.

VAR; its needed in the game but the people using it need some guidelines. It takes seconds to look at an incident, and seconds more to review it twice. Make a decision, and move on. And to improve the excitement, when there's a highly debatable offside, always give it to the attacking side. I'm against giving captains/managers 3 reviews, like cricket. Football is played at pace, and pace can be an advantage. Stopping a team taking a quick free kick, allowing a team to get 11 men behind the ball by using a review - no.
		
Click to expand...

With offside, you need it to be consistent from game to game or what's the point of it - you can't just say 'give a close one to the attacking team' and leave it up to the VAR ref to call what that means. If that's the case you may as well leave it to the lino. So wherever you 'draw' the line, it will always result in highly marginal calls.

I've always been against VAR, but if it has to stay id prefer it to be more like the rugby model. VAR only gets involved when asked to review by an on field official after a goal or red card to check something obvious hasn't been missed in the build up, or for some gross misconduct the ref has missed. It's too subjective to watch 20 different angles at different speeds to then decide if enough contact has been made for a pen or whatever.

Cricket model will lead to a load of tactical reviews. No losing side will ever NOT use up their reviews, especially late on, for often frivolous, chancing reviews. Slow the game right down and cause even more controversy.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 4, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			I see the Liverpool boys liked this post but no mention by them of Manes dive yesterday or any other day.

You couldnâ€™t make it up.ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

You have just made this up!
I posted you an answer but you have chosen not to acknowledge it 
SEE POST 4607 .
It deals with Manes dive from a Liverpool lad as you say.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 4, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			A still photo is extremely misleading.

In the one shown it equally appears that Snodgrass has only just played the ball so Son's challenge is not that sinister.

Also players unfortunately get their feet and ankles trodden on as a result of mistimed tackles. It doesn't mean that there is an intention to hurt the opponent.
		
Click to expand...

I agree with this, @pauljames87 - you can make any tackle look worse with a screenshot of the impact. I think he was just a bit late there and catches Snodgrass. I'm not seeing any malicious intent. Son is a very competitive player and puts himself about, and we certainly have a couple of players with a nasty streak in them - Dier, Lamela, Dele - but I would not rank Son in that category at all. Almost every player has put a couple of late tackles in at one point or another it's just part of the game.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 4, 2019)

Incidentally, I know a number of media outlets have refs running through incidents at the weekend. Has any of them given an explanation why the penalty was not given for the Alli hand ball yesterday? He jumps in the penalty area with his arms above his head, the ball clearly strikes his forearm, no penalty. I fully get why the onfield ref didn't give it, not clear to eye in real speed, but to the VAR it was as clear as you like.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I agree with this, @pauljames87 - you can make any tackle look worse with a screenshot of the impact. I think he was just a bit late there and catches Snodgrass. I'm not seeing any malicious intent. Son is a very competitive player and puts himself about, and we certainly have a couple of players with a nasty streak in them - Dier, Lamela, Dele - but I would not rank Son in that category at all. Almost every player has put a couple of late tackles in at one point or another it's just part of the game.
		
Click to expand...

Incase you missed the link to the video 

Balls gone
Catches him
Acts like nothing to see here didn't touch him 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1123260883206070272


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 4, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Incase you missed the link to the video

Balls gone
Catches him
Acts like nothing to see here didn't touch him


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1123260883206070272

Click to expand...

I saw the video. It's late - it happens 15 times a game.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 4, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Incidentally, I know a number of media outlets have refs running through incidents at the weekend. Has any of them given an explanation why the penalty was not given for the Alli hand ball yesterday? He jumps in the penalty area with his arms above his head, the ball clearly strikes his forearm, no penalty. I fully get why the onfield ref didn't give it, not clear to eye in real speed, but to the VAR it was as clear as you like.
		
Click to expand...

During the VAR review I felt so sure there were going to give it. Then when it went on for 2 more minutes I thought that it cannot be clear and obvious so maybe it won't.. and then it wasn't given. Certainly hit his arm so that wasn't a point of debate. I didn't realise until Dele said in his post-match interview, but Mina hits him in the back of the head with his elbow, and in real time you see him go down from that impact afterwards (this part was cut from the VAR review of course). So when you watch it back again you see the elbow hit him and that's why his head goes down and his arm goes up - human instinct when you get hit in the back of the head basically. I can only imagine that that contact is why they haven't awarded a handball.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I saw the video. It's late - it happens 15 times a game.
		
Click to expand...

Makes it ok? Yesterday he was late. Well Gomez was gone before he even made the tackle. He caused Gomez to stumble .. causing his injury 

Needs a long hard look at himself


----------



## Hobbit (Nov 4, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Incidentally, I know a number of media outlets have refs running through incidents at the weekend. Has any of them given an explanation why the penalty was not given for the Alli hand ball yesterday? He jumps in the penalty area with his arms above his head, the ball clearly strikes his forearm, no penalty. I fully get why the onfield ref didn't give it, not clear to eye in real speed, but to the VAR it was as clear as you like.
		
Click to expand...

For me, Alli made a second movement upwards with his arm when it became obvious he wasn't going to get near the ball. It was a clear penalty in my eyes. Who on earth jumps up like that with their arms above their head?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			During the VAR review I felt so sure there were going to give it. Then when it went on for 2 more minutes I thought that it cannot be clear and obvious so maybe it won't.. and then it wasn't given. Certainly hit his arm so that wasn't a point of debate. I didn't realise until Dele said in his post-match interview, but Mina hits him in the back of the head with his elbow, and in real time you see him go down from that impact afterwards (this part was cut from the VAR review of course). So when you watch it back again you see the elbow hit him and that's why his head goes down and his arm goes up - human instinct when you get hit in the back of the head basically. I can only imagine that that contact is why they haven't awarded a handball.
		
Click to expand...

It should have been a free kick then. It is one or the other, surely? Mina is a big man, jumps well. He outjumped Alli, no shame in that, and there is always an element of contact at corners. He didn't wallop him, there was no clear push. 

I have no idea why they needed 15 different angles. 14 showed it to be hand ball, 1 did not (I may have exaggerated this but not by much)


----------



## MegaSteve (Nov 4, 2019)

In every 'regular' workplace "duty of care" is part of the work ethic... Not sure why football should be exempt...


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 4, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It should have been a free kick then. It is one or the other, surely? Mina is a big man, jumps well. He outjumped Alli, no shame in that, and there is always an element of contact at corners. He didn't wallop him, there was no clear push.

I have no idea why they needed 15 different angles. 14 showed it to be hand ball, 1 did not (I may have exaggerated this but not by much)
		
Click to expand...

Probably not because VAR isn't used to decide free kicks. In whatever their daft rules are. I'm just saying they must have decided there were enough mitigating circumstances - elbow in the head, and the fact that it glances off Mina onto Dele from 6 inches away - that they decided it wasn't a 'clear and obvious' oversight by the ref. Honestly I have no idea if it should be a penalty or not. Think we've got off lucky with it as you've seen them given lots of times, but I also think it would have been slightly unfair on Dele given the elbow he got. I'm not sure if the latest handball rule makes a provision for if pressure from an opponent forces you into handballing it - surely it does and that's why it's not given?

100% it took waaaaaay too long, wasn't it 2 or 3 minutes? Utterly ridiculous. You only need to watch it maybe twice to see what happened and then make your mind up. I agree with Pochettino (and lots of other people)'s comments that why is the referee not watching the pitchside screen?? Every ground has installed them and they've been completely redundant. A man sitting in Stockley Park doesn't have context for the incident, the referee having been right there on the pitch, just needs a better view of it and he is best placed to make the decision surely. Scrap the bloody VAR studio and just show it to the ref on screen, 2 or 3 views and he should make his decision quickly based off that. It's not a difficult concept but the FA have royally fudged it up.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Probably not because VAR isn't used to decide free kicks. In whatever their daft rules are. I'm just saying they must have decided there were enough mitigating circumstances - elbow in the head, and the fact that it glances off Mina onto Dele from 6 inches away - that they decided it wasn't a 'clear and obvious' oversight by the ref. Honestly I have no idea if it should be a penalty or not. Think we've got off lucky with it as you've seen them given lots of times, but I also think it would have been slightly unfair on Dele given the elbow he got. I'm not sure if the latest handball rule makes a provision for if pressure from an opponent forces you into handballing it - surely it does and that's why it's not given?

100% it took waaaaaay too long, wasn't it 2 or 3 minutes? Utterly ridiculous. You only need to watch it maybe twice to see what happened and then make your mind up. I agree with Pochettino (and lots of other people)'s comments that why is the referee not watching the pitchside screen?? Every ground has installed them and they've been completely redundant. A man sitting in Stockley Park doesn't have context for the incident, the referee having been right there on the pitch, just needs a better view of it and he is best placed to make the decision surely. Scrap the bloody VAR studio and just show it to the ref on screen, 2 or 3 views and he should make his decision quickly based off that. It's not a difficult concept but the FA have royally fudged it up.
		
Click to expand...

I think the point of the ref not looking at a screen by the side of the pitch is that that process takes too long. Ironic following yesterday. 3mins 40 seconds apparently . I would have a time limit on it, on the basis that if it is that tricky then it can not be obvious. Where I struggle yesterday is that seemed obvious.

Perhaps you are right although in your own penalty area you surely know to do anything but raise your arms, even if someone pushes you. It should be ingrained into you, no arms above your head. Remember Andy Gray saying it was impossible to jump without swinging your arms around? They all manage it now, players adapt. (I know you are right about the free kick comment, I'm just grumpy about it )


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 4, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I absolutely do believe theres better refs out there than Tierney, Moss, Friend, Mason to name a few. Those 4 alone have overstayed their welcome as a PL elite ref.

I agree the refs need help with technology to an extent but do you really believe this current crop of officials are using the technology correctly?  I also accept refs will make mistakes, theyve got VAR now and are still making mistakes but at least the mistakes are being made in that moment.

Was football really that bad in recent seasons to have to go to were we are today with it?

It was brought in for clear and obvious, not subjective decisions.

We're trying to run before we can walk with it. Get rid of Riley, appoint a respected ex ref and let's start weeding the crap out. Then let's evolve VAR.
		
Click to expand...

See, I knew you would come around.

VAR, used correctly can be a great addition, but will never be perfect. However, it SHOULD be a lot better than just human, one-look decisions.

Currently it is being mis-managed by lets say 5 things, but the biggest of them all is when it is used (ref or VAR ref decide) - I say let the captains of the 2 sides involved call it in on when to use. That for me is the biggest mis-use.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 4, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			No team should have input/control of the ref. They're there as impartial referees.

Remember footballers arent the most intelligent of people. Let's have a game were players play, refs ref and players respect refs.
		
Click to expand...

Now you want "space" players, as well. Sheesh.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 4, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think the point of the ref not looking at a screen by the side of the pitch is that that process takes too long. Ironic following yesterday. 3mins 40 seconds apparently . I would have a time limit on it, on the basis that if it is that tricky then it can not be obvious. Where I struggle yesterday is that seemed obvious.

Perhaps you are right although in your own penalty area you surely know to do anything but raise your arms, even if someone pushes you. It should be ingrained into you, no arms above your head. Remember Andy Gray saying it was impossible to jump without swinging your arms around? They all manage it now, players adapt. (I know you are right about the free kick comment, I'm just grumpy about it )
		
Click to expand...

Ironic indeed - it couldn't take any longer than that did. As soon as the ref decides he wants a better view, instead of signalling to the VAR man he simply runs over to the screen, and it should be ready to go for him to look at. 

On your second point, it's as I said earlier, when someone smacks the back of your head you tend to throw an arm up to put your hand where it hurts don't you? It's not really a conscious thing. When players jump and have their arms above their head for no reason, then I'd agree, that's handball.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 4, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			See, I knew you would come around.

VAR, used correctly can be a great addition, but will never be perfect. However, it SHOULD be a lot better than just human, one-look decisions.

Currently it is being mis-managed by lets say 5 things, but the biggest of them all is when it is used (ref or VAR ref decide) - *I say let the captains of the 2 sides involved call it in on when to use. That for me is the biggest mis-use*.
		
Click to expand...

I really disagree with this, that would make it into an awful gimmick. The referee alone should decide when he needs help in reviewing a decision. And as I said above, he should be the ones who watches it back at the side of the pitch, not relying on some clown in Stockley Park who has no measure of the actual context down on the pitch.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 4, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			A still photo is extremely misleading.

In the one shown it equally appears that Snodgrass has only just played the ball so Son's challenge is not that sinister.

Also players unfortunately get their feet and ankles trodden on as a result of mistimed tackles. It doesn't mean that there is an intention to hurt the opponent.
		
Click to expand...

No wonder Mane has to dive out the way of these terrible tackles going around.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I really disagree with this, that would make it into an awful gimmick. The referee alone should decide when he needs help in reviewing a decision. And as I said above, he should be the ones who watches it back at the side of the pitch, not relying on some clown in Stockley Park who has no measure of the actual context down on the pitch.
		
Click to expand...

Big wow!


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 4, 2019)

After all of the who ha on here re the Son tackle, ave just had my first look on you tube. In all honesty ave seen Fernandinho, Kompany etc do hundreds of them. For me it was a professional foul. Nailed on. Forget the injury for one second. Its a definite yellow. Spurs are defending a 1 goal lead. Any manager of any team would take that Son challenge to defend that lead. Do i think there was any malicious intent. Not for one minute. However, Gomes suffered a career ending injury, whether there was intent of not, when you make a professional foul you cannot predict if a player or infact yourself will get injured ( not hurt ) theres a difference. To that extent Son deserved to go. Sons decision to ulimately try and defend 3 points, actually cost his team two points and the lifelong memories of causing a career threatening injury. Its not the first accidental serious injury ( remember David Busst  UTD v Coventry) and unfortunately it won't be the last.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 4, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			No wonder Mane has to dive out the way of these terrible tackles going around. 

Click to expand...

He must dive Pep said so


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 4, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			See, I knew you would come around.

VAR, used correctly can be a great addition, but will never be perfect. However, it SHOULD be a lot better than just human, one-look decisions.

Currently it is being mis-managed by lets say 5 things, but the biggest of them all is when it is used (ref or VAR ref decide) - I say let the captains of the 2 sides involved call it in on when to use. That for me is the biggest mis-use.
		
Click to expand...

Come round to what? The only real  use  for VAR is mistaken identity and was the ball/foul in or outside of the box. That's it. Your idea is farcical.

The rest of the game is subjective so let it be reffed by the professionals. A better standard of refs will improve decisions. Proving Bobby was offside by his armpit is a waste of time.

On a sidenote, going back to Bobby's disallowed goal, what happened to Lino's keeping their flags down like they were told to at the start of the season.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 4, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			After all of the who ha on here re the Son tackle, ave just had my first look on you tube. In all honesty ave seen Fernandinho, Kompany etc do hundreds of them. For me it was a professional foul. Nailed on. Forget the injury for one second. Its a definite yellow. Spurs are defending a 1 goal lead. Any manager of any team would take that Son challenge to defend that lead. Do i think there was any malicious intent. Not for one minute. However, Gomes suffered a career ending injury, whether there was intent of not, when you make a professional foul you cannot predict if a player or infact yourself will get injured ( not hurt ) theres a difference. To that extent Son deserved to go. Sons decision to ulimately try and defend 3 points, actually cost his team two points and the lifelong memories of causing a career threatening injury. Its not the first accidental serious injury ( remember David Busst  UTD v Coventry) and unfortunately it won't be the last.
		
Click to expand...

You can't judge a challenge based on whether the receiving player got injured or not. Players have received monstrous knee-high stonewall red card tackles before and walked away luckily unscathed, so would you downgrade them to a booking?? No, and it doesn't work the other way round either. Gomes was unfortunate in how he landed while off balance, that could have happened on literally any sliding tackle, fair or foul. You have to judge the action itself, not the aftermath. Most people have objectively agreed Son's tackle was a yellow card challenge.


----------



## MegaSteve (Nov 4, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			After all of the who ha on here re the Son tackle, ave just had my first look on you tube. In all honesty ave seen Fernandinho, Kompany etc do hundreds of them. For me it was a professional foul. Nailed on. Forget the injury for one second. Its a definite yellow. Spurs are defending a 1 goal lead. Any manager of any team would take that Son challenge to defend that lead. Do i think there was any malicious intent. Not for one minute. However, Gomes suffered a career ending injury, whether there was intent of not, when you make a professional foul you cannot predict if a player or infact yourself will get injured ( not hurt ) theres a difference. To that extent Son deserved to go. Sons decision to ulimately try and defend 3 points, actually cost his team two points and the lifelong memories of causing a career threatening injury. Its not the first accidental serious injury ( remember David Busst  UTD v Coventry) and unfortunately it won't be the last.
		
Click to expand...

Not, for me, "accidental" when there's been foul play involved...


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 4, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think the point of the ref not looking at a screen by the side of the pitch is that that process takes too long. Ironic following yesterday. 3mins 40 seconds apparently . I would have a time limit on it, on the basis that if it is that tricky then it can not be obvious. Where I struggle yesterday is that seemed obvious.

Perhaps you are right although in your own penalty area you surely know to do anything but raise your arms, even if someone pushes you. It should be ingrained into you, no arms above your head. Remember Andy Gray saying it was impossible to jump without swinging your arms around? They all manage it now, players adapt. (I know you are right about the free kick comment, I'm just grumpy about it )
		
Click to expand...

The ref had plenty of time to look at the monitor while Shockley Park were messing around.

You canâ€™t make your silhouette bigger and putting your arm over your head comes into that I think.
Ali had his arm up before Mina touched him,


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 4, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			You have just made this up!
I posted you an answer but you have chosen not to acknowledge it
SEE POST 4607 .
It deals with Manes dive from a Liverpool lad as you say.
		
Click to expand...

You got me.

Still only 1 out 4 of you though the others would never admit it.ðŸ˜—


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 4, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			After all of the who ha on here re the Son tackle, ave just had my first look on you tube. In all honesty ave seen Fernandinho, Kompany etc do hundreds of them. For me it was a professional foul. Nailed on. Forget the injury for one second. Its a definite yellow. Spurs are defending a 1 goal lead. Any manager of any team would take that Son challenge to defend that lead. Do i think there was any malicious intent. Not for one minute. However, Gomes suffered a career ending injury, whether there was intent of not, when you make a professional foul you cannot predict if a player or infact yourself will get injured ( not hurt ) theres a difference. To that extent Son deserved to go. Sons decision to ulimately try and defend 3 points, actually cost his team two points and the lifelong memories of causing a career threatening injury. Its not the first accidental serious injury ( remember David Busst  UTD v Coventry) and unfortunately it won't be the last.
		
Click to expand...

All professional fouls should be red for this reason .
It needs stamping out.
How many more need to be seriously hurt.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 4, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			You got me.

Still only 1 out 4 of you though the others would never admit it.ðŸ˜—
		
Click to expand...

You're starting to sound like a stuck record. Mane was booked for diving, correctly. What does a bunch of fans on a forum 'admitting' it have to do with anything? He dived and was punished by what the laws state the punishment is. Why does it need an endless discussion when there is no debate to be had?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 4, 2019)

Not sure VAR is needed for this one.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1191323866163032066


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 4, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Not sure VAR is needed for this one.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1191323866163032066

Click to expand...

Now thatâ€™s a proper clearance 
But only row B not row Z.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 4, 2019)

Just heard Madrid looking to offer city 70m plus Bale for Sterling ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 4, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Just heard Madrid looking to offer city 70m plus Bale for Sterling ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Sterling would be mad to go for that in all honesty.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 4, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			He must dive Pep said so 

Click to expand...

Peps getting a bit like Wenger !
He hasnâ€™t got a very good view of his own players!


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Sterling would be mad to go for that in all honesty.
		
Click to expand...

Donâ€™t think city would entertain twice that tbh, but Iâ€™m not sure heâ€™d turn it down. I think he should, but Madrid is a big thing for most players.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 4, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Donâ€™t think city would entertain twice that tbh, but Iâ€™m not sure heâ€™d turn it down. I think he should, but Madrid is a big thing for most players.
		
Click to expand...

Heâ€™s a star at City but would only be a squad player at Madrid .
Bale canâ€™t get in the team.
But itâ€™s a big step for the lad one I think he should take while he has the chance.
Preferably before Sunday.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 4, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



*Heâ€™s a star at City but would only be a squad player at Madrid .*
Bale canâ€™t get in the team.
But itâ€™s a big step for the lad one I think he should take while he has the chance.
Preferably before Sunday.

Click to expand...

Don't agree with your first point at all. He would definitely start for Real. But they're in decline and City are regularly competing for trophies still, it would be a weird move for him. Added to the fact that City will pay him whatever he wants to stay, since they need homegrown English players and he's one of the best if not the best.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Don't agree with your first point at all. He would definitely start for Real. But they're in decline and City are regularly competing for trophies still, it would be a weird move for him. Added to the fact that City will pay him whatever he wants to stay, since they need homegrown English players and he's one of the best if not the best.
		
Click to expand...

They are trying to arrest the decline.
This might show how much pull they still have.
But he will only be part of the squad. Imo.


----------



## hairball_89 (Nov 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Don't agree with your first point at all. He would definitely start for Real. But they're in decline and City are regularly competing for trophies still, it would be a weird move for him. Added to the fact that City will pay him whatever he wants to stay, since they need homegrown English players and he's one of the best if not the best.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree. Pains me to say it as an LFC fan, but he's absolutely the best English player around at the mo, not that there's a huge amount of competition! If his head's been turned it will be interesting to see what deal happens and Real certainly want rid of Bale, but Â£70m plus him? Not a chance, surely. City would want "Neymar level" money I'd reckon.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 4, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			They are trying to arrest the decline.
This might show how much pull they still have.
But he will only be part of the squad. Imo.
		
Click to expand...

Have you looked at Real's squad lately? Who's keeping him out the team??


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Have you looked at Real's squad lately? Who's keeping him out the team??
		
Click to expand...

The manager

Itâ€™s not just Real if he shows any inclination that he would move I can see other big clubs wanting him.
Canâ€™t see him leaving tbh.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			You can't judge a challenge based on whether the receiving player got injured or not. Players have received monstrous knee-high stonewall red card tackles before and walked away luckily unscathed, so would you downgrade them to a booking?? No, and it doesn't work the other way round either. Gomes was unfortunate in how he landed while off balance, that could have happened on literally any sliding tackle, fair or foul. You have to judge the action itself, not the aftermath. Most people have objectively agreed Son's tackle was a yellow card challenge.
		
Click to expand...

You can't judge a challenge based on whether the player got injured or not. Course you can. It was a professional foul. He deliberately meant to foul him. He caused massive injuries. Sorry me old bean is not acceptable. How does possibly downgrading a knee high tackle even warrant being mentioned as some kind of a comparison. It's a red end of story for a knee high tackle. I am judging the action itself and it was a deliberate action/ foul. Most people objectively agree, really. Looking forward to Spurs appealing against the red card then.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 4, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Peps getting a bit like Wenger !
He hasnâ€™t got a very good view of his own players!
		
Click to expand...

Think Pep won things though ðŸ˜


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 4, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Heâ€™s a star at City but would only be a squad player at Madrid .
Bale canâ€™t get in the team.
But itâ€™s a big step for the lad one I think he should take while he has the chance.
Preferably before Sunday.

Click to expand...

With the injuries we have, am sure Pepsi gonna give me a call before sunday. Well ave gotta let him down. Its rememberance day, am on a.march and getting tanked. Soz guys but football comes second on Sunday.
PS, ave Liverpool.down for a 2 nil win In the premier prediction league


----------



## fundy (Nov 4, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Think Pep won things though ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Come on Tashy, youre not that old to be one of those who think footballs only existed for ten years, maybe as a City fan youve blanked out the pre Arab money years lol


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 4, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Think Pep won things though ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Yeah but if Wenger had been given Â£1 billion to spend he would've won stuff. 

Or, more likely, he would've spent a little of it on obscure young French players, a dodgy defence and lightweight, tippy tappy midfielders while ignoring the fact that what he really needed was a strong holding defensive midfielder. But the healthy bank balance would've counted as an extra trophy alongside the 4th place trophy they tried to win each year.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 4, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Come round to what? The only real  use  for VAR is mistaken identity and was the ball/foul in or outside of the box. That's it. Your idea is farcical.

The rest of the game is subjective so let it be reffed by the professionals. A better standard of refs will improve decisions. Proving Bobby was offside by his armpit is a waste of time.

On a sidenote, going back to Bobby's disallowed goal, what happened to Lino's keeping their flags down like they were told to at the start of the season.
		
Click to expand...

Is it any less farcical than the Maradona handball, Lampard's goal in South Africa for England, the famous Leeds vs West Brom offside and many more.

Your reliant on some referees somehow replacing our current crop who you believe will suddenly be amazing - thats way more farcical.

They ARE professionals and they are even worse than refs who used to be amateur. 

Under the current dynamic we could have 20 VAR's a game, so if you want to restrict use, this not only does it, but also can be used for overturning a bad decision and more importantly be used to out cheats. 5 mins to go, their man is on a booking and you have two reviews left, and their man dives - get him sent off.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 4, 2019)

Am I being too simplistic but surely the referee either on his own doubt or the advice of Stockley, go to the monitor first and have a look for himself. If he cannot decide surely he can ask then for the additional views. For me, the monitor will answer a lot of the initial issues quickly and simplistically


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 4, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			With the injuries we have, am sure Pepsi gonna give me a call before sunday. Well ave gotta let him down. Its rememberance day, am on a.march and getting tanked. Soz guys but football comes second on Sunday.
PS, ave Liverpool.down for a 2 nil win In the premier prediction league
		
Click to expand...

Betting against your own team tut tut.
Have a good day ,will be remembering my grandad I never met.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 4, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			You got me.

Still only 1 out 4 of you though the others would never admit it.ðŸ˜—
		
Click to expand...

Clubchamp was our appointed spokesperson.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 4, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Is it any less farcical than the Maradona handball, Lampard's goal in South Africa for England, the famous Leeds vs West Brom offside and many more.

Your reliant on some referees somehow replacing our current crop *who you believe will suddenly be amazing *- thats way more farcical.

They ARE professionals and they are even worse than refs who used to be amateur.

Under the current dynamic we could have 20 VAR's a game, so if you want to restrict use, this not only does it, but also can be used for overturning a bad decision and more importantly be used to out cheats. 5 mins to go, their man is on a booking and you have two reviews left, and their man dives - get him sent off.
		
Click to expand...

No I dont and I've never said that at all, you're exaggerating again ðŸ™„


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 4, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			No I dont and I've never said that at all, you're exaggerating again ðŸ™„
		
Click to expand...

Okay, but you are saying it'll improve. There have always been 5 refs who we all think we should be rid of and there always will be, normally the ones who give whatever team you support nothing.

You said what I said was farcical, but your "hope" that we can get to 25 adequate refs, that players will be respectful and that the media will tow the line is utopian in the least.

There could be very small gains if you try and improve the human aspect, but if you use technology correctly, that can have large gains. Unfortunately they are ballsing it up, and possibly its because they are using the same refs who are also doing a game the next day, or day before and a lot of these refs are friends, so likely to back their mates up. Maybe get ex-refs in, ex-footballers trained up, or even have both.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 4, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			You can't judge a challenge based on whether the player got injured or not. Course you can. It was a professional foul. He deliberately meant to foul him. He caused massive injuries. Sorry me old bean is not acceptable. How does possibly downgrading a knee high tackle even warrant being mentioned as some kind of a comparison. It's a red end of story for a knee high tackle. I am judging the action itself and it was a deliberate action/ foul. Most people objectively agree, really. Looking forward to Spurs appealing against the red card then.
		
Click to expand...

The point is you don't judge a challenge by what happens afterwards, absolutely any slide challenge could result in an injury like Gomes'. On this occasion he barely clipped him, but losing his balance caused him to bugger his ankle in the turf. The unfortunate result doesn't change what Son's action was, it was simply a late challenge and a trip, which is always a yellow card.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			The point is you don't judge a challenge by what happens afterwards, absolutely any slide challenge could result in an injury like Gomes'. On this occasion he barely clipped him, but losing his balance caused him to bugger his ankle in the turf. The unfortunate result doesn't change what Son's action was, it was simply a late challenge and a trip, which is always a yellow card.
		
Click to expand...

Not according to motd they had a quote from the refs organisation saying the injury will be taken into account.
Ref had a yellow out until it was obvious it was bad then he changed it to red.

Anyone know for deffo ?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 4, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not according to motd they had a quote from the refs organisation saying the injury will be taken into account.
Ref had a yellow out until it was obvious it was bad then he changed it to red.

Anyone know for deffo ?
		
Click to expand...

I saw that as an explanation given by the refs association as well. Is this a new thing?

The same explanation confirmed the reason for not giving a penalty. It was as per Orikoru stated, Mina and Alli jumped, the collision caused Alli to raise his arms. Cobblers but an explanation.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			The point is you don't judge a challenge by what happens afterwards, absolutely any slide challenge could result in an injury like Gomes'. On this occasion he barely clipped him, but losing his balance caused him to bugger his ankle in the turf. The unfortunate result doesn't change what Son's action was, it was simply a late challenge and a trip, which is always a yellow card.
		
Click to expand...

Going on this photo Iâ€™d suggest Aurier should of got the Red Card as it doesnâ€™t look like Gomes accidentally caught his foot in the turf.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 4, 2019)

Oh by the way Gomes had a successful operation to repair his dislocated broken ankle and itâ€™s hoped heâ€™ll make a full recovery.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 4, 2019)

Only just seen the tackle(s). 

Imo a yellow for both aurier and Son would have been right. Neither imo had malicious intent. 

Son did a tactical foul, they happen everywhere. Every club accepts it when it helps the team. 

Aurier is late, but again accidental.


----------



## Hobbit (Nov 4, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



View attachment 28488

Going on this photo Iâ€™d suggest Aurier should of got the Red Card as it doesnâ€™t look like Gomes accidentally caught his foot in the turf.

Click to expand...

The problem with the photo is it has a poor depth of field. If you watch it on YouTube Gomes is still a foot or two short of Aurier at this point. And to be fair to Aurier, he obviously wouldn't have known Gomes would be going down. Son's tackle was the root cause, hence the red, but no one knew what the consequences of that tackle would be.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 4, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Oh by the way Gomes had a successful operation to repair his dislocated broken ankle and itâ€™s hoped heâ€™ll make a full recovery.

Click to expand...

Hope he does, it was a shocking injury.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 4, 2019)

fundy said:



			Come on Tashy, youre not that old to be one of those who think footballs only existed for ten years, maybe as a City fan youve blanked out the pre Arab money years lol
		
Click to expand...

Disgusting comments, we won the league cup in 76. ðŸ˜–ðŸ˜ðŸ‘


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 4, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not according to motd they had a quote from the refs organisation saying the injury will be taken into account.
Ref had a yellow out until it was obvious it was bad then he changed it to red.

Anyone know for deffo ?
		
Click to expand...

Yeah it was equally stupid when they said it on there as well. That's never been part of the laws, it's just classic defending of their refs with excuses as usual. Atkinson made a blunder but it's ref's union. Same as VAR never changing decisions.

As Hobbit said, Aurier didn't really do much, Gomes did his ankle in the turf and then collided with Aurier just through momentum really. He definitely wouldn't have deserved a card.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 4, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			The problem with the photo is it has a poor depth of field. If you watch it on YouTube Gomes is still a foot or two short of Aurier at this point. And to be fair to Aurier, he obviously wouldn't have known Gomes would be going down. Son's tackle was the root cause, hence the red, but no one knew what the consequences of that tackle would be.
		
Click to expand...

All â€œprofessional fouls â€œ could end up like this .
I just donâ€™t understand how a professional footballer can hack another player down usually from behind and people think itâ€™s ok and just a yellow.
I think a tactical foul from behind with NO intention of playing the ball should be red .
It would stop it overnight!

I have seen players sent off when they have got the ball first.
But scythe someone down from behind , slap on the wrist and yellow.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah it was equally stupid when they said it on there as well. That's never been part of the laws, it's just classic defending of their refs with excuses as usual. Atkinson made a blunder but it's ref's union. Same as VAR never changing decisions.

As Hobbit said, Aurier didn't really do much, Gomes did his ankle in the turf and then collided with Aurier just through momentum really. He definitely wouldn't have deserved a card.
		
Click to expand...

No blame on Aurier at all for me, Son caused this with his reckless tackle .
It changed the run of Gomez as he stumbled .
Aurier had set his stride for the challenge but the foul changed everything..

The refs should be ashamed of themselves trying to cover their arses.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			The point is you don't judge a challenge by what happens afterwards, absolutely any slide challenge could result in an injury like Gomes'. On this occasion he barely clipped him, but losing his balance caused him to bugger his ankle in the turf. The unfortunate result doesn't change what Son's action was, it was simply a late challenge and a trip, which is always a yellow card.
		
Click to expand...

Why shouldnâ€™t the consequences be taken into consideration? He wasnâ€™t challenging for the ball, but deliberately trying to take the man down.
When actions are deliberate like that the consequence must be considered. If you Get caught speeding you get 3 points. If you hit and kill someone crossing a road because you were going too fast you get your speeding ticket but also death by dangerous driving possibly........the consequences of your actions.
Son may be the â€œnice guyâ€ you claim, but the consequences of his actions must be taken into consideration.


----------



## garyinderry (Nov 5, 2019)

Is there any reason why a referee cant pull a massive smart phone out of his pocket and instantly review a VAR decision rather than run the length of a pitch to view a 32 inch screen which they seem reluctant to do as it seemly takes too long to do? 

The tech is here to run this show much better yet they seem to be making a complete pigs ear of it.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Why shouldnâ€™t the consequences be taken into consideration? He wasnâ€™t challenging for the ball, but deliberately trying to take the man down.
When actions are deliberate like that the consequence must be considered. If you Get caught speeding you get 3 points. If you hit and kill someone crossing a road because you were going too fast you get your speeding ticket but also death by dangerous driving possibly........the consequences of your actions.
Son may be the â€œnice guyâ€ you claim, but the consequences of his actions must be taken into consideration.
		
Click to expand...

Because it was a freak accident! You could shoulder barge someone off balance and they injure their ankle like that, that wouldn't suddenly make it a foul. The force of the tackle didn't cause the injury. Where do you draw the line anyway, if he made that challenge and Gomes only sprained his ankle, would that be a red? What about if he made that tackle and Gomes stubbed his toe? The action doesn't change based on the result, that's absurd. The action was a late tackle which tripped up the player - a yellow card.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

garyinderry said:



			Is there any reason why a referee cant pull a massive smart phone out of his pocket and instantly review a VAR decision rather than run the length of a pitch to view a 32 inch screen *which they seem reluctant to do as it seemly takes too long to do*?

The tech is here to run this show much better yet they seem to be making a complete pigs ear of it.
		
Click to expand...

There's no way it would take any longer than hanging around 3 minutes for the decision to be made for him like they did in that game anyway. Should only take him 30 seconds to jog over there and another 30 seconds to watch it.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Because it was a freak accident! You could shoulder barge someone off balance and they injure their ankle like that, that wouldn't suddenly make it a foul. The force of the tackle didn't cause the injury. Where do you draw the line anyway, if he made that challenge and Gomes only sprained his ankle, would that be a red? What about if he made that tackle and Gomes stubbed his toe? The action doesn't change based on the result, that's absurd. The action was a late tackle which tripped up the player - a yellow card.
		
Click to expand...

You just canâ€™t see it because of your a Spurs fan, if it was a genuine attempt to play the ball then fine, then it would be a freak accident!
Son made no attempt to play the ball, his only intent was stop Gomes, therefore, EVERYTHING that followed was initiated by Son.
I fully agree he may of not intended for Gomes to suffer as he did and might be upset, but he set the chain of events in motion.
The studs in the grass caused the dislocation and now there saying Aurier slamming in to him caused the break, all initiated by Sonâ€™s recklessness, if Son getting a Red card  and the FA upholds it, it may send out a warning to other players that these type of dangerous, petulant fouls can have serious consequences, it may prevent another player from suffering.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			You just canâ€™t see it because of your a Spurs fan, if it was a genuine attempt to play the ball then fine, then it would be a freak accident!
Son made no attempt to play the ball, his only intent was stop Gomes, therefore, EVERYTHING that followed was initiated by Son.
I fully agree he may of not intended for Gomes to suffer as he did and might be upset, but he set the chain of events in motion.
The studs in the grass caused the dislocation and now there saying Aurier slamming in to him caused the break, all initiated by Sonâ€™s recklessness, if Son getting a Red card  and the FA upholds it, it may send out a warning to other players that these type of dangerous, petulant fouls can have serious consequences, it may prevent another player from suffering.
		
Click to expand...

It's the CL final, relegation battle, top 4 decider, your team is one up when a last minute counter occurs. 

Your last defender cynically takes a player out on the half way line. Takes his yellow and your team gets the win. If anyone her says they're gonna criticise their defender for that. I'm calling bs. 

No doubt Sons actions caused the injury, but its a pure freak incident. An accident by very definition. I think it's dangerous territory to be decided cards on outcome.....


----------



## garyinderry (Nov 5, 2019)

Son is closing down at speed. Hes been done and lazily tackles with the wrong foot. Hes tripped the player and a yellow card all day long. What follows is a complete accident. 

If you are to send players off then messi could get 3 men sent off with one drop of the shoulder as he skips a bucket load of these tackles every game.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			It's the CL final, relegation battle, top 4 decider, your team is one up when a last minute counter occurs.

Your last defender cynically takes a player out on the half way line. Takes his yellow and your team gets the win. If anyone her says they're gonna criticise their defender for that. I'm calling bs.

No doubt Sons actions caused the injury, but its a pure freak incident. An accident by very definition. I think it's dangerous territory to be decided cards on outcome.....
		
Click to expand...

Great scenario, totally irrelevant in the  Gomes scenario, ie 2 struggling teams, side of the pitch etc etc.
Iâ€™m sure we can all play the what if game!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

garyinderry said:



			Son is closing down at speed. Hes been done and *lazily* tackles with the wrong foot. Hes tripped the player and a yellow card all day long. What follows is a complete accident.

If you are to send players off then messi could get 3 men sent off with one drop of the shoulder as he skips a bucket load of these tackles every game.
		
Click to expand...

So again mate, excuses for Son, it was a deliberate tackle which only he could of avoided making.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			You just canâ€™t see it because of your a Spurs fan, if it was a genuine attempt to play the ball then fine, then it would be a freak accident!
Son made no attempt to play the ball, his only intent was stop Gomes, therefore, EVERYTHING that followed was initiated by Son.
I fully agree he may of not intended for Gomes to suffer as he did and might be upset, but he set the chain of events in motion.
The studs in the grass caused the dislocation and now there saying Aurier slamming in to him caused the break, all initiated by Sonâ€™s recklessness, if Son getting a Red card  and the FA upholds it, it may send out a warning to other players that these type of dangerous, petulant fouls can have serious consequences, it may prevent another player from suffering.
		
Click to expand...

You can't just change the laws of football mid-game because someone got hurt though. That was a yellow card challenge, even if it was on purpose, because he just tripped him.



			
				Laws of Football said:
			
		


*Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned*
Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off
		
Click to expand...

There's absolutely no way it was excessive force. By the above definition it was reckless, and a yellow card. The referee applied the laws incorrectly, and the red card _should _be overturned.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Great scenario, totally irrelevant in the  Gomes scenario, ie 2 struggling teams, side of the pitch etc etc.
*Iâ€™m sure we can all play the what if game!*

Click to expand...

Well that's exactly what you're doing. *If* someone gets injured it's a red, if they don't it's a yellow? Makes no sense. As people are always telling me in the Rules of Golf sub-forum, the rule has to be fairly applied to everyone, not adjusted based on the outcome.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			You can't just change the laws of football mid-game because someone got hurt though. That was a yellow card challenge, even if you think it was on purpose, because he just tripped him.


There's absolutely no way it was excessive force. By the above definition it was reckless, and a yellow card. The referee applied the laws incorrectly, and the red card _should _be overturned.
		
Click to expand...

So again Son is innocent.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Great scenario, totally irrelevant in the  Gomes scenario, ie 2 struggling teams, side of the pitch etc etc.
Iâ€™m sure we can all play the what if game!
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ™„ðŸ™„ It's a tactical foul. Either you accept them or you dont. Spurs have been lacklustre for weeks. The least their fans will demand is effort and win at all costs. Tactical fouls are part of the sport. 

It's OK for you to try and use the fact that Orikuro is a spurs fan to show he's bias, but you're in the same boat as a spurs fan.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			So again Son is innocent.

Click to expand...

What are you talking about? He's guilty of making a reckless challenge. The punishment is a yellow card.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 5, 2019)

garyinderry said:



			Is there any reason why a referee cant pull a massive smart phone out of his pocket and instantly review a VAR decision rather than run the length of a pitch to view a 32 inch screen which they seem reluctant to do as it seemly takes too long to do?

The tech is here to run this show much better yet they seem to be making a complete pigs ear of it.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, he would probably not know how to turn it on.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 5, 2019)

So as I mentioned, Spurs have appealed the red card. Watch this space.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			ðŸ™„ðŸ™„ It's a tactical foul. Either you accept them or you dont. Spurs have been lacklustre for weeks. The least their fans will demand is effort and win at all costs. Tactical fouls are part of the sport.

It's OK for you to try and use the fact that Orikuro is a spurs fan to show he's bias, but you're in the same boat as a spurs fan.
		
Click to expand...

Rubbish, youâ€™re assuming because Iâ€™m Blue thatâ€™s my stance, what about the others who have agreed it was a Red Card.
Please, please explain how Sonâ€™s tackle was tactical?
Could Son guarantee the force and speed he made that tackle at would not injure Gomes?
Would Gomes of got injured if Son had missed him?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			What are you talking about? He's guilty of making a reckless challenge. The punishment is a yellow card.
		
Click to expand...

If Son had used less force would the injury have happened? Who decides excessive force? The Ref and after seeing the results of Sonâ€™s challenge heâ€™s upgraded the card to Red.

You keep using the word accident, it wasnâ€™t, Son only had one intention and that was to bring Gomes down.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 5, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Yes, he would probably not know how to turn it on.
		
Click to expand...

I have an image of a ref running around the pitch holding his phone up trying to get a signal. Move a bit left, right more, up a bit, up a bit more


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Rubbish, youâ€™re assuming because Iâ€™m Blue thatâ€™s my stance, what about the others who have agreed it was a Red Card.
Please, please explain how Sonâ€™s tackle was tactical?
Could Son guarantee the force and speed he made that tackle at would not injure Gomes?
*Would Gomes of got injured if Son had missed him?*

Click to expand...

The highlighted part is entirely irrelevant when discussing a tactical foul. Players do them to stop the game. Not to injure a player. If the rule has changed and consequences now count then its a red, but imo that's not a good rule as players will start making even bigger deals of slight knocks to con a ref into thinking they're really hurt.

As to your bias. Same question, you're assuming orikuro thinks it's not a red coz he's a spurs fan. What about all the others that agree it's a yellow.....

Son chased him back for about 20 yards. Had 2 nibbles then got him. He was simply looking to stop the game. It was neither reckless or intended to cause harm which prior to the refs announcing that consequences count eqayres to a yellow imo.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			If Son had used less force would the injury have happened? Who decides excessive force? The Ref and after seeing the results of Sonâ€™s challenge heâ€™s upgraded the card to Red.

You keep using the word accident, it wasnâ€™t, Son only had one intention and that was to bring Gomes down.
		
Click to expand...

You've lost the plot now mate, I think you need to calm down. He obviously didn't use excessive force, all he did was trip him over. This for me is a perfect description of what Son did:

_Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned._​
Excessive force refers to the studs up, lunging, bone-crunching tackles you see players like Delph and Kompany make from time to time. This certainly wasn't that. The laws very clearly state this challenge should have been a yellow card. I can't really say it anymore clearly than that. If you're still going to deny it in the face of that evidence then I don't know what more to say.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Rubbish, youâ€™re assuming because Iâ€™m Blue thatâ€™s my stance, what about the others who have agreed it was a Red Card.
Please, please explain how Sonâ€™s tackle was tactical?
Could Son guarantee the force and speed he made that tackle at would not injure Gomes?
*Would Gomes of got injured if Son had missed him?*

Click to expand...

Possibly yes - if he'd have hurdled the challenge he still could have landed awkwardly and damaged his ankle the same way. Why bother speculating though - you were the one who didn't to do "what ifs".


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			The highlighted part is entirely irrelevant when discussing a tactical foul. Players do them to stop the game. Not to injure a player. If the rule has changed and consequences now count then its a red, but imo that's not a good rule as players will start making even bigger deals of slight knocks to con a ref into thinking they're really hurt.

As to your bias. Same question, you're assuming orikuro thinks it's not a red coz he's a spurs fan. What about all the others that agree it's a yellow.....

Son chased him back for about 20 yards. Had 2 nibbles then got him. He was simply looking to stop the game. It was neither reckless or intended to cause harm which prior to the refs announcing that consequences count eqayres to a yellow imo.
		
Click to expand...

You are making it up! Virtually everyone agreed Son was looking for retaliation after getting caught in the face, he went after Gomes with one intention and that was to foul him, Iâ€™ve said Iâ€™d agree Son didnâ€™t intend for that outcome, but that was the outcome and Son has to take responsibility for his actions.

Please show how Sonâ€™s foul was tactical?

As for bias, I kept out of this initially to avoid exactly what youâ€™ve done, all orikuro has done is defend Son and made him look like the victim in this because of a red card, no one else has continually done that for a 3rd day, I post twice on it and I get bias shout!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			You've lost the plot now mate, I think you need to calm down. He obviously didn't use excessive force, all he did was trip him over. This for me is a perfect description of what Son did:

_Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned._​
Excessive force refers to the studs up, lunging, bone-crunching tackles you see players like Delph and Kompany make from time to time. This certainly wasn't that. The laws very clearly state this challenge should have been a yellow card. I can't really say it anymore clearly than that. If you're still going to deny it in the face of that evidence then I don't know what more to say.
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™ve lost no plot, did Sonâ€™s uneccesary tackle cause the injury?

It was a trip? Youâ€™re kidding it was deliberate and out of control, as for quoting rules I trust a PL Ref more than you to make that decision


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Possibly yes - if he'd have hurdled the challenge he still could have landed awkwardly and damaged his ankle the same way. Why bother speculating though - you were the one who didn't to do "what ifs". 

Click to expand...

Because from minute 1 youâ€™re speculating on Sonâ€™s intent, only he knows.

You havenâ€™t once explained why Son made the tackle?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Definition of Serious Foul Play - Red Card:

â€œA tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as *serious foul play*. ... Brutal actions involving excessive force (violence, endangering the safety of an opponent) must always result in a red card!

Obviously none of that could be labelled at Son.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Rubbish, youâ€™re assuming because Iâ€™m Blue thatâ€™s my stance, what about the others who have agreed it was a Red Card.
Please, please explain how Sonâ€™s tackle was tactical?
Could Son guarantee the force and speed he made that tackle at would not injure Gomes?
Would Gomes of got injured if Son had missed him?
		
Click to expand...

But that same level of uncertainty applies to any tackle, foul or otherwise. 

As a neutral I would say that the challenge merited no more than a yellow card as the level or degree of injury was irrelevant. The challenge was not a studs up, potential leg-breaker such as has been witnessed elsewhere. 

Anyway that's just my view and my concern now is that Gomes makes a full and speedy recovery, both physically and mentally.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			You are making it up! Virtually everyone agreed Son was looking for retaliation after getting caught in the face, he went after Gomes with one intention and that was to foul him, Iâ€™ve said Iâ€™d agree Son didnâ€™t intend for that outcome, but that was the outcome and Son has to take responsibility for his actions.
*
Please show how Sonâ€™s foul was tactical?*

As for bias, I kept out of this initially to avoid exactly what youâ€™ve done, all orikuro has done is defend Son and made him look like the victim in this because of a red card, no one else has continually done that for a 3rd day, I post twice on it and I get bias shout!
		
Click to expand...

I said myself I only saw the incident last night. I simply saw a 30 second clip and It looked to me that he'd chased him on a counter so was trying to stop him by any means. 

Hadn't seen whole game so can't comment on what happened before. Even so, if he was after him then he'd have done more than the little trips he attempted imo. So Whilst he (gomes) most likely wouldn't have have been hur if son hadn't caused him to trip, we can't prove what ifs.... For me it's an unfortunate accident. You don't belive that. I do. 

I'm not sure where orikuro is making son a victim. 
As to the bias. If you use someone's team allegiance agaimst them. Then state that others believing the same as you proves it. It's a weak argument then the exact same can be argued at you. 

Fwiw I'm not saying your stance is because of bias, just that it can easily look like it. 

The same as I've nit said your opinion is wrong, it's just not one I share.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Iâ€™ve lost no plot, did Sonâ€™s uneccesary tackle cause the injury?

It was a trip? Youâ€™re kidding it was deliberate and out of control, as for quoting rules *I trust a PL Ref *more than you to make that decision
		
Click to expand...

Really? Every pundit said he was wrong to give a red. I've shown you the official law of football that says he was wrong to give a red. Yes he has caused him to get injured - with a challenge that was a yellow card offence. 



pauldj42 said:



			Because from minute 1 youâ€™re speculating on Sonâ€™s intent, only he knows.

You havenâ€™t once explained why Son made the tackle?
		
Click to expand...

Because he was playing football and that's what people do?? I think talk of it being retribution is wide of the mark, if you watch the footage he has a nibble at the previous player who passed it to Gomes, then followed the ball over and made that late challenge that brought him down. He's an extremely competitive player, he chases opposition players down like that all game. Earlier in the game he threw himself into a slide tackle trying to block a clearance from Pickford after sprinting 30 yards to get there. That's just how he plays.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 5, 2019)

Brilliant, a day off for us Liverpool fans, let us know when you've finished.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Definition of Serious Foul Play - Red Card:

â€œA tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as *serious foul play*. ... Brutal actions involving excessive force (violence, endangering the safety of an opponent) must always result in a red card!

Obviously none of that could be labelled at Son.

Click to expand...

Excessive force or brutality!  No, of course that can't be levelled at Son ffs.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Brilliant, a day off for us Liverpool fans, let us know when you've finished. 

Click to expand...

Haven't you admitted that Mane is a diving scumbag yet? Hurry up, Sawtooth has barely slept.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 5, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Brilliant, a day off for us Liverpool fans, let us know when you've finished. 

Click to expand...

Still your bloody city!!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Excessive force or brutality!  No, of course that can't be levelled at Son ffs.
		
Click to expand...

You donâ€™t see it because youâ€™re defending him, happy for you to show us your measurement for force and when it becomes excessive!

Iâ€™ll ask you this did Sonâ€™s tackle result in Gomes suffering the injury? Your answer will probably be along the lines of, it was the tackle that did it, it was him getting his studs caught in the grass, to which Iâ€™ll ask what caused him to land like he did and the answer to that is Sonâ€™s tackle and round in circles we go.

As previously stated, if it had been a genuine tackle by Son then fair enough, it wasnâ€™t. He knew he couldnâ€™t  get the ball and it was a blatant attempt to foul Gomes.
For that reason and that reason alone Son should get a ban for what his actions resulted in, all the accidents that followed were from a deliberate action.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I said myself I only saw the incident last night. I simply saw a 30 second clip and It looked to me that he'd chased him on a counter so was trying to stop him by any means.

Hadn't seen whole game so can't comment on what happened before. Even so, if he was after him then he'd have done more than the little trips he attempted imo. So Whilst he (gomes) most likely wouldn't have have been hur if son hadn't caused him to trip, we can't prove what ifs.... For me it's an unfortunate accident. You don't belive that. I do.

I'm not sure where orikuro is making son a victim.
As to the bias. If you use someone's team allegiance agaimst them. Then state that others believing the same as you proves it. It's a weak argument then the exact same can be argued at you.

Fwiw I'm not saying your stance is because of bias, just that it can easily look like it.

The same as I've nit said your opinion is wrong, it's just not one I share.
		
Click to expand...

1st point, it wasnâ€™t 100% a tactical foul.

2nd point, you say yourself Gomes wouldnâ€™t of been hurt if Son hadnâ€™t caused him to trip (it didnâ€™t just trip him, it was a late tackle) but letâ€™s just class it as an unfortunate accident, how about we donâ€™t, how about we put full responsibility on Son and admit, no tackle, no injury.

3rd point, 3rd day now of trying to convince everyone that somehow Son has been badly treated by the Ref.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			You donâ€™t see it because youâ€™re defending, *happy for you to show us your measurement for force and when it becomes excessive!*

Iâ€™ll ask you this did Sonâ€™s tackle result in Gomes suffering the injury? Your answer will probably be along the lines of, it was the tackle that did it, it was him getting his studs caught in the grass, to which Iâ€™ll ask what caused him to land like he did and the answer to that is Sonâ€™s tackle and round in circles we go.

As previously stated, if it had been a genuine tackle by Son then fair enough, it wasnâ€™t. He knew he couldnâ€™t  get the ball and it was a blatant attempt to foul Gomes.
For that reason and that reason alone Son should get a ban for what his actions resulted in, all the accidents that followed were from a deliberate action.
		
Click to expand...

Already did, try and keep up please, this is exactly why discussions with you go round in round in circles forever: LAST PARAGRAPH.

The tackle clearly started the chain of events for him to get injured. That is irrelevant though in what colour the card is so I don't know why you keep bringing it up. The laws do not say that if the player gets injured then you upgrade the yellow to a red, because that would be absurd.

A deliberate foul defined as reckless in the laws is STILL A YELLOW CARD unless it prevented a goalscoring opportunity. Like when you pull someone back by their shirt - that is deliberate but you wouldn't expect a red for it would you - even if the guy somehow twisted his knee ligaments because of it. How are you not getting this?? The injury is irrelevant to the card colour.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			But that same level of uncertainty applies to any tackle, foul or otherwise.

As a neutral I would say that the challenge merited no more than a yellow card as the level or degree of injury was irrelevant. The challenge was not a studs up, potential leg-breaker such as has been witnessed elsewhere.

Anyway that's just my view and my concern now is that Gomes makes a full and speedy recovery, both physically and mentally.
		
Click to expand...

Cheers for that, I do understand what youâ€™re saying, the difference from my point of view was that it was a tackle that he didnâ€™t need to make, it was very late, he had cover and his only intent was to foul Gomes and his petulant, dangerous play has led to a serious injury.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			1st point, it wasnâ€™t 100% a tactical foul.

2nd point, you say yourself Gomes wouldnâ€™t of been hurt if Son hadnâ€™t caused him to trip (it didnâ€™t just trip him, it was a late tackle) but letâ€™s just class it as an unfortunate accident, how about we donâ€™t, how about we put full responsibility on Son and admit, no tackle, no injury.
		
Click to expand...

But your final point could be argued is a what if scenario. He evaded Son twice. Aurier is still gonna come across, so who know. 

I agree that if Son hadnâ€™t gone for him then the most likely outcome wouldnâ€™t have been the same. But for me, as Iâ€™ve already said. The actual tackle itself doesnâ€™t warrant anymore than a yellow. Now if the rules have been changed to actually say that an injury may affect the card the then yes. The unfortunate accident could be deemed a red. But, if that isnâ€™t actually in the rules then the repercussions of a tackle shouldnâ€™t matter. 

So final point from me. Son has to shoulder responsibility for it. Absolutely. Itâ€™s happened because of him and heâ€™ll need to get over that. On the pitch it genuinely looked like he Felt bad though. I donâ€™t feel sympathetic for Son. But I do believe the wrong decision was made re the card. Will be interested what is said by all involved once the poor lad is on the road to recovery.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Already did, try and keep up please, this is exactly why discussions with you go round in round in circles forever: LAST PARAGRAPH.

The tackle clearly started the chain of events for him to get injured. That is irrelevant though in what colour the card is so I don't know why you keep bringing it up. The laws do not say that if the player gets injured then you upgrade the yellow to a red, because that would be absurd.

A deliberate foul defined as reckless in the laws is STILL A YELLOW CARD unless it prevented a goalscoring opportunity. Like when you pull someone back by their shirt - that is deliberate but you wouldn't expect a red for it would you - even if the guy somehow twisted his knee ligaments because of it. How are you not getting this?? The injury is irrelevant to the card colour.
		
Click to expand...

Twice now youâ€™ve had a couple of personal digs! Youâ€™ve been on about this for 3 days, Iâ€™ve posted for the last 2 hours! If you donâ€™t want an answer to a point I make, donâ€™t quote me or put me on ignore, I believe itâ€™s only good manners to respond.

Can we stick to the facts, Son tackle was excessive in that it resulted in the injury, the FA have made the statement and explained it, you donâ€™t agree, I do.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Twice now youâ€™ve had a couple of personal digs!

Can we stick to the facts, Son tackle was excessive in that it resulted in the injury, the FA have made the statement and explained it, you donâ€™t agree, I do.
		
Click to expand...

Have I? I don't think I have. 

They were just defending their own with excuses as they always do. Their own laws of football state that his challenge was a yellow card offence. There was no excessive force whatsoever.


----------



## chrisd (Nov 5, 2019)

Most injuries in football come from contact, it is a contact sport. Did Son intend to injure Gomez, no not in my opinion, these sort if tackles happen time after time in games and very few players would deliberately cause serious injury to another player. If the repercussions of the tackle had not caused such serious injury would Son have got a red card - no. 

The ref only upgraded the card once he saw the extent of the injury and whilst Son was clearly in no mental state to carry on playing his actual tackle did not do the injury it happened consequentially and without intent imo. The red card must be rescinded I believe


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

I wish pundits would stop disagreeing with each other.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1191499087218171904


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Definition of Serious Foul Play - Red Card:

â€œA tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as *serious foul play*. ... Brutal actions involving excessive force (violence, endangering the safety of an opponent) must always result in a red card!

Obviously none of that could be labelled at Son.

Click to expand...

Whatever your thoughts on the challenge the first 11 words sum it. Whether you agree with it or not Sons tackle endangered the oppo player whether he meant ot or not.
Me am.outta here, this is going round in ever decreasing circles.
Back to VAR.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 5, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Still your bloody city!!
		
Click to expand...

I suppose Son's lunge started in Anfield, so yes, we're probably at fault.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 5, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Whatever your thoughts on the challenge the first 11 words sum it. Whether you agree with it or not Sons tackle endangered the oppo player whether he meant ot or not.
Me am.outta here, this is going round in ever decreasing circles.
Back to VAR.
		
Click to expand...

With Fernandinho and Jimmy Milner possibly in action over the weekend, will be interesting to see if the ref clamps down on this early doors.

I wonder what LiverpoolPhil's outlook on the Son challenge is......

BOOM!!!!!


----------



## sam85 (Nov 5, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Whatever your thoughts on the challenge the first 11 words sum it. Whether you agree with it or not Sons tackle endangered the oppo player whether he meant ot or not.
Me am.outta here, this is going round in ever decreasing circles.
Back to VAR.
		
Click to expand...

Using that logic every single tackle in football potentially endangers the opposition, you'd end up with no players left on the pitch.  

I have never heard of fouls being upgraded to red cards depending on how injured a player is as a result, but if that is the case then it has to be one of the craziest rules in football imo.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

sam85 said:



			Using that logic every *single tackle* in football potentially endangers the opposition, you'd end up with no players left on the pitch. 

I have never heard of fouls being upgraded to red cards depending on how injured a player is as a result, but if that is the case then it has to be one of the craziest rules in football imo.
		
Click to expand...

Is every single tackle an act of sh!thousery?


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Is every single tackle an act of sh!thousery?
		
Click to expand...

Nah, only the ones that injure nice Everton players.


----------



## Dan2501 (Nov 5, 2019)

Son copped an elbow, wanted revenge, kicked out at Gomes, Gomes ended up colliding with Aurier and broke his ankle. Sucks for Son, but he made the decision to kick out at Gomes, so has to live with that. It wasn't a red card, but the responsibility lies with Son. He was being petulant and taking revenge on a player and it just happened to end horribly. He didn't mean to break his ankle, this isn't a Keane-Haaland situation, but an opposition player has a broken ankle because of his actions.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Nah, only the ones that injure nice Everton players. 

Click to expand...

Hilarious, Gomes may of had his career ended, but letâ€™s make light of it because Son cried.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

I think it's an enormous leap to say he was taking revenge. That's 2+2=6 at best.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 5, 2019)

sam85 said:



			Using that logic every single tackle in football potentially endangers the opposition, you'd end up with no players left on the pitch.  

I have never heard of fouls being upgraded to red cards depending on how injured a player is as a result, but if that is the case then it has to be one of the craziest rules in football imo.
		
Click to expand...

How can you say that. Am scratching my head. Tackling like a scoring,defending etc etc it  is an art. Son never tackled. He did a professional foul end of story. His professional foul, not tackle caused the injury. If you foul when trying to tackle  then its yellow or red. No one wants to stop tackling, but everyone wants to stop professional cheating. That's what Son did. And as a City fan am.well qualified to judge what Son did. But this time he  got it horribly wrong


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I think it's an enormous leap to say he was taking revenge. That's 2+2=6 at best.
		
Click to expand...

Even that's arguing Ory, 2+2=5.


----------



## sam85 (Nov 5, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			How can you say that. Am scratching my head. Tackling like a scoring,defending etc etc it  is an art. Son never tackled. He did a professional foul end of story. His professional foul, not tackle caused the injury. If you foul when trying to tackle  then its yellow or red. No one wants to stop tackling, but everyone wants to stop professional cheating. That's what Son did. And as a City fan am.well qualified to judge what Son did. But this time he  got it horribly wrong
		
Click to expand...

You originally quoted a post suggesting that any tackle that endangered the opposition should result in a red card,  now you're saying it's a yellow or red for a foul???


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I think it's an enormous leap to say he was taking revenge. That's 2+2=6 at best.
		
Click to expand...





Let's just remember the evidence 

He takes players out off the ball 

He gets sent off against Bournemouth for lashing out

He has a history of seeking revenge on the pitch 

So 2 + 2 = 4


----------



## sam85 (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Is every single tackle an act of sh!thousery?
		
Click to expand...


Ermm no.  I'm not sure of the relevance though.  Or are you now suggesting Son should of been sent off for "sh!thousery"?


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Let's just remember the evidence

He takes players out off the ball

He gets sent off against Bournemouth for lashing out

He has a history of seeking revenge on the pitch

So 2 + 2 = 4
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, I forgot lovely Snodgrass got his toe stepped on therefore Son is some sort of vindictive assassin. Give it a rest! To say Son assaulted Gomes out of retribution is a serious and completely baseless accusation. Particularly as the offence with nothing more than a sliding trip. Before fouling Gomes he was chasing the previous Everton player who had possession and simply followed the ball. He's competitive.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

sam85 said:



			You originally quoted a post suggesting that any tackle that endangered the opposition should result in a red card,  now you're saying it's a yellow or red for a foul???
		
Click to expand...

The post he quoted was for the definition of Serious Foul Play, not for any tackles,  so surely itâ€™s up to the Ref which tackles he deems as Serious Foul Play or not using that definition.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Sorry, I forgot lovely Snodgrass got his toe stepped on therefore Son is some sort of vindictive assassin. Give it a rest! To say Son assaulted Gomes out of retribution is a serious and completely baseless accusation. Particularly as the offence with nothing more than a sliding trip. Before fouling Gomes he was chasing the previous Everton player who had possession and simply followed the ball. He's competitive.
		
Click to expand...

He got elbowed in the face by Gomez earlier in the game

What a coincidence he suddenly leaves a late one on him


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			He got elbowed in the face by Gomez earlier in the game

What a coincidence he suddenly leaves a late one on him
		
Click to expand...

Again, to say it's _not_ a coincidence is 2+2=5.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

sam85 said:



			Ermm no.  I'm not sure of the relevance though.  Or are you now suggesting Son should of been sent off for "sh!thousery"?
		
Click to expand...

No, Iâ€™m suggesting Son had no intention of going for the ball only the man, I totally agree accidents can happen in a fair tackle, as Iâ€™ve put above the Serious Foul Play comes in to it as a result of what the Ref seeâ€™s in this case, I believe he saw an intentional foul were son had no intention of playing the ball, once heâ€™s seen Gomes injury heâ€™s then, imo, and from the FA Statement believed that the tackle was a lot worse than he first thought and met the criteria for a Red Card.
The Ref didnâ€™t have 20 replays showing when the break occurred or how, just one view of the tackle and then seen the result when he got to Gomes.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

We're getting sidetracked anyway to be honest. Even if Son deliberately seeked out Gomes and deliberately tripped him up, the actual tackle that he made is STILL only a yellow card offence. It's really that simple. The ban should be overturned.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			The Ref didnâ€™t have 20 replays showing when the break occurred or how, just one view of the tackle and then seen the result when he got to Gomes.
		
Click to expand...

If only there was some kind of technology for watching incidents back to help him arrive at the correct decision.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			No, Iâ€™m suggesting Son had no intention of going for the ball only the man, I totally agree accidents can happen in a fair tackle, as Iâ€™ve put above the Serious Foul Play comes in to it as a result of what the Ref seeâ€™s in this case, I believe he saw an intentional foul were son had no intention of playing the ball, once heâ€™s seen Gomes injury heâ€™s then, imo, and from the FA Statement believed that the tackle was a lot worse than he first thought and met the criteria for a Red Card.
The Ref didnâ€™t have 20 replays showing when the break occurred or how, just one view of the tackle and then seen the result when he got to Gomes.
		
Click to expand...

I think all the above is a much fairer review. I could see how if he (ref) felt the break occurred when Son connected that a red was warranted. 
Of course if var had looked then it would quickly have shown what had occurred. 

I just think the ref changing his mind and then the statement after the fact is where the refs have got it wrong.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 5, 2019)

garyinderry said:



			Is there any reason why a referee cant pull a massive smart phone out of his pocket and instantly review a VAR decision rather than run the length of a pitch to view a 32 inch screen which they seem reluctant to do as it seemly takes too long to do?

The tech is here to run this show much better yet they seem to be making a complete pigs ear of it.
		
Click to expand...

It canâ€™t be more than 60yds max from the ref anywhere on the pitch.
Surely he can run that far in 15 seconds.

If the club has one just show it on the big screen at least the fans will see what he sees.
They are just making excuses for bad calls.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			We're getting sidetracked anyway to be honest. Even if Son deliberately seeked out Gomes and deliberately tripped him up, the actual tackle that he made is STILL only a yellow card offence. It's really that simple. The ban should be overturned.
		
Click to expand...

The refs have come out and said that injury is taken into account so it's a red

Regardless of what you or pundits think the refs enforce what their told 

Remember why the pundits went on and on about daylight in the offside rule. It's never been in the rule!!

They talk gibberish


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 5, 2019)

Explaining Atkinson's decision, the Premier League said: "The red card for Son was for endangering the safety of a player, which happened as a consequence of his initial challenge."


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 5, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			The refs have come out and said that injury is taken into account so it's a red

Regardless of what you or pundits think the refs enforce what their told

Remember why the pundits went on and on about daylight in the offside rule. It's never been in the rule!!

They talk gibberish
		
Click to expand...

But as far as I am aware there is no Law of Football that states the outcome rather  than the nature of the foul should determine the punishment. 

It all rather smacks of the matchday referee panicking and making an emotional decision when he saw the extent of Gomes' injury. 

Subsequently the authorities have come to his rescue.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 5, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			It canâ€™t be more than 60yds max from the ref anywhere on the pitch.
Surely he can run that far in 15 seconds.

*If the club has one just show it on the big screen at least the fans will see what he sees.*
They are just making excuses for bad calls.
		
Click to expand...

Can you imagine the abuse on Sunday if they showed the penalty shout on a big screen and then didn't give it? I'm not sure a football crowd is ready for that, sad to say.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Explaining Atkinson's decision, the Premier League said: "The red card for Son was for endangering the safety of a player, which happened as a consequence of his initial challenge."
		
Click to expand...

I've said it three times now, but they've literally just made that up as part of the recent culture of defending the refs no matter how many mistakes they make. I've looked through the laws of the game, and it's not there, honest. Nowhere does it say the ref can change his mind on a challenge just because the player unfortunately got injured after it. They were wrong to release that statement just as Atkinson was wrong to give the red card. 

As we've said, if that challenge endangers the safety of the player, then 95% of sliding challenges endanger the safety of the player, and you're effectively talking about removing slide tackles from the game altogether.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			But as far as I am aware there is no Law of Football that states the outcome rather  than the nature of the foul should determine the punishment.

It all rather smacks of the matchday referee panicking and making an emotional decision when he saw the extent of Gomes' injury.

Subsequently the authorities have come to his rescue.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly. It was an emotive kneejerk reaction from Atkinson, which wasn't called for. The FA always back their refs first, ask questions later.


----------



## sam85 (Nov 5, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Explaining Atkinson's decision, the Premier League said: "The red card for Son was for endangering the safety of a player, which happened as a consequence of his initial challenge."
		
Click to expand...

This is the bit I just can't get my head around.  Every single tackle in any game of football could potentially endanger the safety of an opponent.  If red card's are now given out because of how injured a player is because of this opens up a whole can of worms.  Players spend far too long rolling around on the floor as it is, if you can now get the opposition sent off for injuring you then I can only see this getting worse.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			As we've said, if that challenge endangers the safety of the player, then 95% of sliding challenges endanger the safety of the player, and you're effectively talking about removing slide tackles from the game altogether.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, a sliding tackle virtually guarantees a red card nowadays. They are classed as being out of control so unless you take the ball cleanly and leave the attacked untouched they are best avoided. Sliding tackles are for the history books now.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			To be fair, a sliding tackle virtually guarantees a red card nowadays. They are classed as being out of control so unless you take the ball cleanly and leave the attacked untouched they are best avoided. Sliding tackles are for the history books now.
		
Click to expand...

We do seem to be slowly moving towards that way, but I don't think we're there yet. Slide tackles facing the player head-on are all but gone because it's near impossible to stop your studs following through. But a slide tackle from the side that trips the player is still fine if you win the ball, and a yellow if you don't. Or a red if you don't and he would have been through on goal (but outside the box.. since inside is yellow + penalty nowadays).


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I think all the above is a much fairer review. I could see how if he (ref) felt the break occurred when Son connected that a red was warranted.
Of course if var had looked then it would quickly have shown what had occurred.

I just think the ref changing his mind and then the statement after the fact is where the refs have got it wrong.
		
Click to expand...

VAR may of reviewed it and agreed, they only overturn if they believe thereâ€™s been a serious error.
So one could assume they did review it on sunday and agreed.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			VAR may of reviewed it and agreed, they only overturn if they believe thereâ€™s been a serious error.
So one could assume they did review it on sunday and agreed.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure that makes it any better with most of our current opinions of far are taken into accountðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			We're getting sidetracked anyway to be honest. Even if Son deliberately seeked out Gomes and deliberately tripped him up, the actual tackle that he made is STILL only a yellow card offence. It's really that simple. The ban should be overturned.
		
Click to expand...

Sidetracked because people disagree with you!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			We do seem to be slowly moving towards that way, but I don't think we're there yet. Slide tackles facing the player head-on are all but gone because it's near impossible to stop your studs following through. But a slide tackle from the side that trips the player is still fine if you win the ball, and a yellow if you don't. Or a red if you don't and he would have been through on goal (but outside the box.. since inside is yellow + penalty nowadays).
		
Click to expand...

They are such a gamble that I would be emphasising players to avoid doing them, whether defender or midfielder. It used to be you were okay if you got the ball but the old 'clearing out a player' is no longer allowed. If someone worked out the stats relating to number of slide tackles done and number resulting in cards I would say the odds were very much against them now. In theory still okay, but a high risk move.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

Found this interesting - since pauldj was so keen to hear the word of a Premier League referee.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/10273479/son-not-sent-off-andre-gomes-var-red-card/ 

_With emotions running high, Atkinson then issued a red card on the basis of his human response. _​​_We do not know if VAR official Anthony Taylor got involved but the cold technology could have helped Atkinson._​​_Son has been red carded for the unfortunate consequences of what happened next, not for the foul itself._​​_So I have to ask the question, since when did the laws of the game say the outcome of a foul dictates the appropriate disciplinary action? Itâ€™s not in the laws of the game._​​_Itâ€™s a wrongful dismissal for Son and if VAR had got involved, I believe the South Korean would not have been sent off. _​


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Sidetracked because people disagree with you! 

Click to expand...

Don't be obtuse. Sidetracked because people started debating whether Son is that sort of player, and whether he sought Gomes out deliberately or not, when in fact neither of those points are remotely relevant to what colour the card is - which is what we were talking about. In fact it's not a matter of opinion, it's black and white in the laws of the game that the challenge he made is a yellow card. Now whether you think the rules of the game should be changed in matters like this is another matter.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 5, 2019)

One thing I would say. Surely the appeal is pointless. 

The fa have basically backed the ref with their statement. Canâ€™t see them throwing him under the bus now.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I've said it three times now, but they've literally just made that up as part of the recent culture of defending the refs no matter how many mistakes they make. I've looked through the laws of the game, and it's not there, honest. Nowhere does it say the ref can change his mind on a challenge just because the player unfortunately got injured after it. They were wrong to release that statement just as Atkinson was wrong to give the red card.

As we've said, if that challenge endangers the safety of the player, then 95% of sliding challenges endanger the safety of the player, and you're effectively talking about removing slide tackles from the game altogether.
		
Click to expand...

You keep making out about that â€œchallengeâ€ you may of said something 3 times but this wasnâ€™t a normal anything, it may of been exactly what Shaka Hislop stated, a deliberate attempt to leave something on him, itâ€™s a deliberate tackle on the player, absolutely no intention of playing the ball, should we not be trying to stop these happening incase the 1 in a million injury occurs rather than trying to make excuses for them.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			One thing I would say. Surely the appeal is pointless.

The fa have basically backed the ref with their statement. Canâ€™t see them throwing him under the bus now.
		
Click to expand...

Well we have to appeal because the decision was so clearly wrong, and we're now without the player for three games. However I fear you might be right - they've nailed their colours to the mast and will probably stand by the ref even though he was blatantly in the wrong.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Not sure that makes it any better with most of our current opinions of far are taken into accountðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Just the smart ar5e comments about â€œwhat if we had technologyâ€ etc


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			You keep making out about that â€œchallengeâ€ you may of said something 3 times but this wasnâ€™t a normal anything, it may of been exactly what Shaka Hislop stated, a deliberate attempt to leave something on him, itâ€™s a deliberate tackle on the player, absolutely no intention of playing the ball, *should we not be trying to stop these happening incase the 1 in a million injury occurs rather than trying to make excuses for them*.
		
Click to expand...

It's not excuses, I'm going by the laws of the game. If you want to talk about stamping it out of the game, then yeah fine, but then the laws will need to be changed, because currently they say it's a yellow card. That's all I've said all along.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			You keep making out about that â€œchallengeâ€ you may of said something 3 times but this wasnâ€™t a normal anything, it may of been exactly what Shaka Hislop stated, a deliberate attempt to leave something on him, itâ€™s a deliberate tackle on the player, absolutely no intention of playing the ball, should we not be trying to stop these happening incase the 1 in a million injury occurs rather than trying to make excuses for them.
		
Click to expand...

As an ex-goalkeeper I am not sure how reliable Hislop's opinion is in this case.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			We do seem to be slowly moving towards that way, but I don't think we're there yet. Slide tackles facing the player head-on are all but gone because it's near impossible to stop your studs following through. But a slide tackle from the side that trips the player is still fine if you win the ball, and a yellow if you don't. Or a red if you don't and he would have been through on goal (but outside the box.. since inside is yellow + penalty nowadays).
		
Click to expand...

You missed out what Son did, a slide tackle from behind with no intention and no chance of playing the ball just taking the man out!

Because even you canâ€™t claim he went for the ball!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			As an ex-goalkeeper I am not sure how reliable Hislop's opinion is in this case.
		
Click to expand...

Heâ€™ll know the minds of professionals and we also had the statement that every pundit claimed the Red was wrong.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 5, 2019)

We can debate this until the cows come home.
But for me the law needs changing to â€œ professional foul with no intention of playing the ball should be red.â€
A genuine attempt for the ball is fine ,but canâ€™t stand players who deliberately foul someone from behind.

Letâ€™s not forget these players are running at speed and it dosnt take much to bring them down at full speed,
Son deserves everything he gets imo ,really piss â€œdeliberate â€œpoor tackle that seriously injured a fellow professional.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			You missed out what Son did, a slide tackle from behind with no intention and no chance of playing the ball just taking the man out!

Because even you canâ€™t claim he went for the ball!
		
Click to expand...

Even if everything you just described is true, it's still a yellow card. Judge the action. Intent isn't in the laws.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Heâ€™ll know the minds of professionals and we also had the statement that every pundit claimed the Red was wrong.
		
Click to expand...

There will be differing "expert" witnesses,  some better qualified than others. 

However,  I still cannot see where the Laws of Football state that the outcome determines the extent of the punishment. 

After all we have all seen horrendous "studs up" challenges which have been rightly punished by a red card but, more by luck, there was no injury sustained. 

Using the PL logic in those cases no red should have been issued.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			We can debate this until the cows come home.
But for me the law needs changing to â€œ professional foul with no intention of playing the ball should be red.â€
A genuine attempt for the ball is fine ,but canâ€™t stand players who deliberately foul someone from behind.
		
Click to expand...

I don't wholly disagree that, but it would be very hard to say for sure that a foul was deliberate in many cases. And as I said before, you would have grey areas with things like shirt-pulls which are deliberate, or simple blocking off of players which could lead to some very harsh red cards.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			There will be differing "expert" witnesses,  some better qualified than others.

However,  I still cannot see where the Laws of Football state that the outcome determines the extent of the punishment.

After all we have all seen horrendous "studs up" challenges which have been rightly punished by a red card but, more by luck, there was no injury sustained.

Using the PL logic in those cases no red should have been issued.
		
Click to expand...

We all tend to choose the â€œexpertâ€ that helps our case.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I don't wholly disagree that, but it would be very hard to say for sure that a foul was deliberate in many cases. And as I said before, you would have grey areas with things like shirt-pulls which are deliberate, or simple blocking off of players which could lead to some very harsh red cards.
		
Click to expand...

Yes but itâ€™s the referees job to determine the ones that are or not.

I actually agree that at the moment Sons red was not within the rules as written down but the ref has discretion within them rules and used it.

The Glendousi rugby tackle should have been red 
They need to sort it out.

To say Son didnâ€™t mean to injure Gomez means nothing.
The facts are he did with a reckless professional foul so deserved a red and I donâ€™t think it will be overturned.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Even if everything you just described is true, it's still a yellow card. Judge the action. Intent isn't in the laws.
		
Click to expand...

So none of the below could/might describe Sonâ€™s tackle.

SERIOUS FOUL PLAY
A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I don't wholly disagree that, but it would be very hard to say for sure that a foul was deliberate in many cases. And as I said before, you would have grey areas with things like shirt-pulls which are deliberate, or simple blocking off of players which could lead to some very harsh red cards.
		
Click to expand...

Pulling a shirt and hacking him down from behind at full speed is chalk and cheese imo.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			So none of the below could/might describe Sonâ€™s tackle.

SERIOUS FOUL PLAY
A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.
		
Click to expand...

He didn't use excessive force or brutality, take your emotion out of it and watch it again. He slide alongside/ just across him and tripped him. Excessive force means driving your studs into a player. If his intention was to bring him down, he used exactly the right amount of force - not excessive. Gomes was almost able to hurdle the challenge but not quite.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			He didn't use excessive force or brutality, take your emotion out of it and watch it again. He slide alongside/ just across him and tripped him. Excessive force means driving your studs into a player. If his intention was to bring him down, he used exactly the right amount of force - not excessive. Gomes was almost able to hurdle the challenge but not quite.
		
Click to expand...

 Iâ€™m out


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Pulling a shirt and hacking him down from behind at full speed is chalk and cheese imo.
		
Click to expand...

Right but you were saying deliberate fouls should be red cards, and pulling a shirt is deliberate. So you're already introducing grey areas. This is most likely why intent isn't currently in the laws, as it muddies the water rather than making things clearer.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



 Iâ€™m out 

Click to expand...

Finally!  You really took some convincing.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Right but you were saying deliberate fouls should be red cards, and pulling a shirt is deliberate. So you're already introducing grey areas. This is most likely why intent isn't currently in the laws, as it muddies the water rather than making things clearer.
		
Click to expand...

I have been consistent all through this .
My stance is professional fouls where a man is running away and is brought down deliberately with no intent to get the ball.
Imo that should be red!
Most of these there is no injury but what happened to Gomez was avoidable.
There was no need for Sons trip .

Pulling shirts and blocking people off are deliberate fouls but I would not put them in the same category as this .
Thatâ€™s where the ref comes in to distinguish between the two.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I have been consistent all through this .
My stance is professional fouls where a man is running away and is brought down deliberately with no intent to get the ball.
Imo that should be red!
Most of these there is no injury but what happened to Gomez was avoidable.
There was no need for Sons trip .

Pulling shirts and blocking people off are deliberate fouls but I would not put them in the same category as this .
Thatâ€™s where the ref comes in to distinguish between the two.
		
Click to expand...

The term 'professional foul' specifically referred to denying a goal-scoring opportunity though. So doing what you said is a red if the receiving player would have been in on goal. So you need another way to define it really. Perhaps it's just a case of redefining the whole 'excessive force' bit of the current law.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Finally!  You really took some convincing. 

Click to expand...

I donâ€™t think you convinced him.
Heâ€™s just exasperated.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I donâ€™t think you convinced him.
Heâ€™s just exasperated.
		
Click to expand...

I know that, I was just being cheeky, you know me.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			The term 'professional foul' specifically referred to denying a goal-scoring opportunity though. So doing what you said is a red if the receiving player would have been in on goal. So you need another way to define it really. Perhaps it's just a case of redefining the whole 'excessive force' bit of the current law.
		
Click to expand...

You know what I mean.
Call it what ever you like !
But the type of tackle Son did should be outlawed. (Unprofessional Foul ) will do.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Finally!  You really took some convincing. 

Click to expand...

Iâ€™ll go back on my word and explain.
All day youâ€™ve gone on about whatâ€™s not in the FA rules about the Ref changing his mind.
Then you give a description of â€œExcessive Forceâ€ which is your definition and not in the rules

Using *excessive force*â€ means that the player has far. exceeded the necessary use of *force* and is in danger of. injuring his opponent: âˆ’ a player who uses *excessive force* shall be sent off.

I see no mention of studs!

You then describe Sonâ€™s actions as pre-meditated and him in full control of himself and somehow at the end put responsibility on Gomes for not quite hurdling the tackle!

Clubchamp is right, completely exasperated.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 5, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			You know what I mean.
Call it what ever you like !
But the type of tackle Son did should be outlawed. (Unprofessional Foul ) will do.
		
Click to expand...

I can't remember when that term, professional foul, was first used, I think the 80's at a guess. Somehow it seems to justify and sanitise a deliberate foul. It should be called what it is, not dressed up as something acceptable.

I agree with you, a deliberate foul with no intention to play the ball should be a red.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Iâ€™ll go back on my word and explain.
All day youâ€™ve gone on about whatâ€™s not in the FA rules about the Ref changing his mind.
Then you give a description of â€œExcessive Forceâ€ which is your definition and not in the rules

Using *excessive force*â€ means that the player has far. exceeded the necessary use of *force* and is in danger of. injuring his opponent: âˆ’ a player who uses *excessive force* shall be sent off.

I see no mention of studs!

You then describe Sonâ€™s actions as pre-meditated and him in full control of himself and somehow at the end put responsibility on Gomes for not quite hurdling the tackle!

Clubchamp is right, completely exasperated.

Click to expand...

Just think about the times you have heard the phrase excessive force used during football, and what they were referring to. I'd be shocked if it was ever somebody tripping someone up with a slide tackle.

You have this annoying habit of putting words in my mouth or trying to second guess what I really mean when I say things. (Or perhaps just twisting my words into something you have an answer to?) Why on earth would you infer that I was victim-blaming Gomes? I only added that to imply the tackle wasn't high or crunching, he just tripped him up - i.e. not excessive force.


----------



## Norrin Radd (Nov 5, 2019)

FFS you lot take it to messaging it's bloody boring now as it was about five pages ago.

The player is injured after a tackle ,ref spits out the punishment . .get over it .


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Just think about the times you have heard the phrase excessive force used during football, and what they were referring to. I'd be shocked if it was ever somebody tripping someone up with a slide tackle.

You have this annoying habit of putting words in my mouth or trying to second guess what I really mean when I say things. (Or perhaps just twisting my words into something you have an answer to?) Why on earth would you infer that I was victim-blaming Gomes? I only added that to imply the tackle wasn't high or crunching, he just tripped him up - i.e. not excessive force.
		
Click to expand...

You are making statements that come across as factual,
ie, â€œIf his intention was to bring him down, he used exactly the right amount of force - not excessiveâ€ how can you say that, you have no knowledge of his intent or the amount of force he actually used. How you can question the intent is incredible, because if he was trying to play the ball his tackle was completely mistimed and out of control
That added to your definition of what excessive force means whilst moaning about the Ref doing something not in the rules.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Norrin Radd said:



FFS you lot take it to messaging it's bloody boring now as it was about five pages ago.

The player is injured after a tackle ,ref spits out the punishment . .get over it .

Click to expand...

What exactly are we stopping you from discussing, itâ€™s a forum, nobody is forced to take part.
Get over yourself.


----------



## Norrin Radd (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			What exactly are we stopping you from discussing, itâ€™s a forum, nobody is forced to take part.
Get over yourself.
		
Click to expand...

If you lot can't sort your little tantrums out in less than fifty bloody million pages of the same shoit that you are all spouting why should I and everyone else have to put up with it .
I really can't see the need to go over the same bollox time after time.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 5, 2019)

sam85 said:



			You originally quoted a post suggesting that any tackle that endangered the opposition should result in a red card,  now you're saying it's a yellow or red for a foul???
		
Click to expand...

So your saying every tackle is endangering a player now. I dont think so.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 5, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I can't remember when that term, professional foul, was first used, I think the 80's at a guess. Somehow it seems to justify and sanitise a deliberate foul. It should be called what it is, not dressed up as something acceptable.

I agree with you, a deliberate foul with no intention to play the ball should be a red.
		
Click to expand...

Which I totally agree with and like Klinsman perfected the professional dive. Pep has perfected the professional foul  yet when it leads to injuries that have happened it's ok. If that had been fernandinho that did that. Wonder who would be the first to say " it was only a matter of time".


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			You are making statements that come across as factual,
ie, â€œIf his intention was to bring him down, he used exactly the right amount of force - not excessiveâ€ how can you say that, you have no knowledge of his intent or the amount of force he actually used. How you can question the intent is incredible, because if he was trying to play the ball his tackle was completely mistimed and out of control
That added to your definition of what excessive force means whilst moaning about the Ref doing something not in the rules.
		
Click to expand...

I haven't questioned intent really, I am saying intent is irrelevant to the law. If intended to bring him down, he succeeded, and I don't believe he used excessive force because he used just enough force _to_ bring him down, from watching it several times - so that's a yellow card. If on the other hand he was trying to win the ball, it was extremely late, a foul, and - you guessed it - a yellow card. All roads point to yellow card.

The video of the tackle is still on Twitter, I implore you to watch it again and just focus on the impact - he just barely catches his foot and trips him up. To say that might be excessive force is laughable. 

Look:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1191056243517001728
He just clips him. How on earth can you say that's excessive force?  _(Note: don't worry the injury part isn't shown.)_


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

Norrin Radd said:



			If you lot can't sort your little tantrums out in less than fifty bloody million pages of the same shoit that you are all spouting why should I and everyone else have to put up with it .
I really can't see the need to go over the same bollox time after time.
		
Click to expand...

You don't have to put up with it, you could always click here instead?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Norrin Radd said:



			If you lot can't sort your little tantrums out in less than fifty bloody million pages of the same shoit that you are all spouting why should I and everyone else have to put up with it .
I really can't see the need to go over the same bollox time after time.
		
Click to expand...

Move on, nothing to see here, feel free to put me and anyone else on ignore.
I find your last 2 posts slightly childish.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I haven't questioned intent really, I am saying intent is irrelevant to the law. If intended to bring him down, he succeeded, and I don't believe he used excessive force because he used just enough force _to_ bring him down, from watching it several times - so that's a yellow card. If on the other hand he was trying to win the ball, it was extremely late, a foul, and - you guessed it - a yellow card. All roads point to yellow card.

The video of the tackle is still on Twitter, I implore you to watch it again and just focus on the impact - he just barely catches his foot and trips him up. To say that might be excessive force is laughable.

Look:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1191056243517001728
He just clips him. How on earth can you say that's excessive force?  _(Note: don't worry the injury part isn't shown.)_

Click to expand...

Iâ€™ve seen it plenty and from different angles, how many times has contact and force been discussed on here and what it takes for a player to go down, itâ€™s virtually impossible to quantify, so, imo, if that force has caused Gomes to land as he did, regardless of Sonâ€™s intent, itâ€™s been too much.


----------



## sam85 (Nov 5, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			So your saying every tackle is endangering a player now. I dont think so.
		
Click to expand...

My point is you can't go round dishing out red cards for endagering a player.  There is an element of danger in each and every tackle that is made in football.  Changing the colour of cards based on what injuries a player receives sets a dangerous precedent imo.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Iâ€™ve seen it plenty and from different angles, how many times has contact and force been discussed on here and what it takes for a player to go down, itâ€™s virtually impossible to quantify, so, imo, if that force has caused Gomes to land as he did, regardless of Sonâ€™s intent, itâ€™s been too much.
		
Click to expand...

  come on man, how can that 'cause him to land', gravity causes him to land. He was off balance and the way he landed could have happened on any sliding challenge, foul or fair. It's a little clip on his foot to knock him off balance and bring him down, to try and claim that's excessive force is crazy. It's barely even force let alone excessive force.


----------



## MegaSteve (Nov 5, 2019)

Shawcross and Taylor were red carded despite both saying no malice or intent was involved in their 'tackles' that saw broken legs for Ramsey and Eduardo... Were the referees, on those occasions, influenced (in their decisions) by the gruesome outcomes?


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Shawcross and Taylor were red carded despite both saying no malice or intent was involved in their 'tackles' that saw broken legs for Ramsey and Eduardo... Were the referees, on those occasions, influenced (in their decisions) by the gruesome outcomes?
		
Click to expand...

You mean the two tackles where direct impact from their studs broke the opposing players' legs!? How on earth are they comparable??


----------



## MegaSteve (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			You mean the two tackles where direct impact from their studs broke the opposing players' legs!? How on earth are they comparable??
		
Click to expand...

Both players claimed there was no malice or intent which is the basis of your defence of Son...


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Only real solution is to play it on the day it's scheduled for and let the under 21's manager take his side to play it.

I cant see PL postponing a game fora league cup tie.
		
Click to expand...

I was right all along ðŸ˜‰

Liverpool EFL Cup tie with Aston Villa unchanged despite Fifa Club World Cup clash - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50309214


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Both players claimed there was no malice or intent which is the basis of your defence of Son...
		
Click to expand...

They're not similar, they both used excessive force. And if you think that was defence of Son than you didn't read any of it properly. I specifically said intent is irrelevant as not mentioned in the laws.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I was right all along ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

That's interesting. Do you think there will be one strong side and one weakened one, or half and half? Will Klopp be able to manage both games or send a member of the coaching staff to manage one?


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			That's interesting. Do you think there will be one strong side and one weakened one, or half and half? Will Klopp be able to manage both games or send a member of the coaching staff to manage one?
		
Click to expand...

I think it'll be exactly what I've suggested. 

I'd be very  very surprised if we see any real  1st  team players in the line up.


----------



## Norrin Radd (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Move on, nothing to see here, feel free to put me and anyone else on ignore.
I find your last 2 posts slightly childish.
		
Click to expand...

You mean you actually found time to post


pauldj42 said:



			Move on, nothing to see here, feel free to put me and anyone else on ignore.
I find your last 2 posts slightly childish.
		
Click to expand...

Well at least there are only two.unlike some people who have posted the same Shiite over and over


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I think it'll be exactly what I've suggested.

I'd be very  very surprised if we see any real  1st  team players in the line up.
		
Click to expand...

Dya reckon the club will. Charge accordingly for tickets? 

Is league Cup heavily reduced already?

Would be good to see the club go real low on ticket prices. Fill anfield and give the young players a night to remember.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Norrin Radd said:



			You mean you actually found time to post

Well at least there are only two.unlike some people who have posted the same Shiite over and over
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s easy, put me and whoever on ignore, come back later and see if itâ€™s changed, not difficult.


----------



## robinthehood (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Itâ€™s easy, put me and whoever on ignore, come back later and see if itâ€™s changed, not difficult.
		
Click to expand...

Sons red  card correctly  over turned
Case closed


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



  come on man, how can that 'cause him to land', gravity causes him to land. He was off balance and the way he landed could have happened on any sliding challenge, foul or fair. It's a little clip on his foot to knock him off balance and bring him down, to try and claim that's excessive force is crazy. It's barely even force let alone excessive force. 

Click to expand...

Youâ€™re missing the point, Son never ever for one minute intended to go for the ball, everything that followed was down to intent to foul Gomes.

Is the above statement right or wrong?


----------



## robinthehood (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Youâ€™re missing the point, Son never ever for one minute intended to go for the ball, everything that followed was down to intent to foul Gomes.

Is the above statement right or wrong?
		
Click to expand...

Why has the red card been rescinded?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Why has the red card been rescinded?
		
Click to expand...

I donâ€™t know, I havenâ€™t seen the decision, if it has I will accept it.
You do realise this forum holds no sway, itâ€™s just people having opinions.


----------



## robinthehood (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			I donâ€™t know, I havenâ€™t seen the decision, if it has I will accept it.
You do realise this forum holds no sway, itâ€™s just people having opinions.

Click to expand...

But it was so obviously an incorrect descision I was surprised to see such a long drawn out back and forth about it.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 5, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Dya reckon the club will. Charge accordingly for tickets?

Is league Cup heavily reduced already?

Would be good to see the club go real low on ticket prices. Fill anfield and give the young players a night to remember.
		
Click to expand...

This leaves them with no choice and severely weakens our chance of winning the competition which imo is unfair. Remember a PL being fined for making 11 changes not so long ago?? 

Its away so Villa will set the prices.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 5, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Why has the red card been rescinded?
		
Click to expand...

Because it was against the rules/laws of the game. I'm sure our resident ref will explain it to us in layman's terms.


----------



## MegaSteve (Nov 5, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			But it was so obviously an incorrect descision I was surprised to see such a long drawn out back and forth about it.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure it was obviously incorrect... And, I'd had enough of leaf collecting, in the rain, so the forum beckoned... 

Guessing the committee have overlooked that rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of blind fools...


----------



## robinthehood (Nov 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Because it was against the rules/laws of the game. I'm sure our resident ref will explain it to us in layman's terms.
		
Click to expand...

I know why,  I was asking the chap who thought the card was correct. 
Thanks though


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 5, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			I know why,  I was asking the chap who thought the card was correct.
Thanks though
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, didn't realise it was a loaded question ðŸ‘


----------



## robinthehood (Nov 5, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Not sure it was obviously incorrect... And, I'd had enough of leaf collecting, in the rain, so the forum beckoned...

Guessing the committee have overlooked that rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of blind fools...
		
Click to expand...

Yes it was,  hence it's been rescinded.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			But it was so obviously an incorrect descision I was surprised to see such a long drawn out back and forth about it.
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s your opinion and the opinion of the panel we have to respect, 3 other people on a panel may of thought differently.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Sorry, didn't realise it was a loaded question ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s easy to come on after the fact and play the look at clever me card, you should know that by now Stu.


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			This leaves them with no choice and severely weakens our chance of winning the competition which imo is unfair. Remember a PL being fined for making 11 changes not so long ago??

Its away so Villa will set the prices.
		
Click to expand...

It really baffles me why they should have been fined for making so many changes. Each club has to register 25 players for the season so you should be able to select any of those 25 without punishment. That being said I believe players under the age of 21 dont need to be registered, did they field a team of kids?


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			This leaves them with no choice and severely weakens our chance of winning the competition which imo is unfair. Remember a PL being fined for making 11 changes not so long ago??
*
Its away so Villa will set the prices.*

Click to expand...



Of course it is ðŸ˜¬

According to the reports you guys decided agaisnt other options. Guessing as a club you've decided it's the least important comp, which it is. Not wanting to have a more congested run later.


----------



## robinthehood (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Thatâ€™s your opinion and the opinion of the panel we have to respect, 3 other people on a panel may of thought differently.

Click to expand...

Lol , no not a chance. 
I'm no spurs fan, but that wasn't a red.


----------



## robinthehood (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Itâ€™s easy to come on after the fact and play the look at clever me card, you should know that by now Stu.

Click to expand...

Or  I could have spent 3 days looking foolish ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 5, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			It really baffles me why they should have been fined for making so many changes. Each club has to register 25 players for the season so you should be able to select any of those 25 without punishment. That being said I believe players under the age of 21 dont need to be registered, did they field a team of kids?
		
Click to expand...

Pretty sure at the time all teams were obliged to field teams that weren't agsint the integrity of the game. 

All teams will have a core of 14/15 players wolves changed 10 players and admitted to basically throwing it through choice. 

Liverpool won't be under the same scrutiny as they've got the 2 games to cover.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 5, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Or  I could have spent 3 days looking foolish ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

As opposed to the last 30 minutes.... 

For all the discussions today. People have been simply. Putting the opinions across. Not looking clever with hindsight.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 5, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			It really baffles me why they should have been fined for making so many changes. Each club has to register 25 players for the season so you should be able to select any of those 25 without punishment. That being said I believe players under the age of 21 dont need to be registered, did they field a team of kids?
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, it was Blackpool in 2010 but  in fairness though it was just before the PL agreed to a 25 man squad. Nevertheless I doubt we'll see many, if any, of the 25 man squad at villa Park that night.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Itâ€™s easy to come on after the fact and play the look at clever me card, you should know that by now Stu.

Click to expand...

It wasnt a red card on sunday neither ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Norrin Radd (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			I donâ€™t know, I havenâ€™t seen the decision, if it has I will accept it.
You do realise this forum holds no sway, itâ€™s just people having opinions.

Click to expand...

And how bloody many times do we have to hear it once is enough ffs .opinions mate you got yours and I have mine ,you don't like mine ,well guess what your opinion is the same as mine about the tackle ,BUT,,,,,,,I don't go trying to convince someone else fek knows how many times to change their opinion.
Get over it people have opinions other than yours.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Youâ€™re missing the point, Son never ever for one minute intended to go for the ball, everything that followed was down to intent to foul Gomes.

Is the above statement right or wrong?
		
Click to expand...

That's nothing to do with excessive force. Every time I dispell something you've said you move the goalposts again lol. 

Anyway it's been overturned now apparently, so let's not carry it on for everyone's sake.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Or  I could have spent 3 days looking foolish ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s not nice on others mate, I first posted on it less than 24hrs a go so I know you donâ€™t mean me.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Thatâ€™s not nice on others mate, I first posted on it less than 24hrs a go so I know you donâ€™t mean me.

Click to expand...

The actual incident was only two days ago to be fair lol


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Norrin Radd said:



			And how bloody many times do we have to hear it once is enough ffs .opinions mate you got yours and I have mine ,you don't like mine ,well guess what your opinion is the same as mine about the tackle ,BUT,,,,,,,I don't go trying to convince someone else fek knows how many times to change their opinion.
Get over it people have opinions other than yours.
		
Click to expand...

Bad day hun? Need a hug?

Feel free to ignore my opinions, like ar5eholes we all have one.


----------



## Slime (Nov 5, 2019)

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that Son was looking for a bit of pay-back for the earlier jab in the face.
He obviously didn't intend to do damage ......................... but he was wholly responsible for the terrible injury to Gomes, albeit inadvertently.
In my view, it was a yellow card challenge.
Thankfully, after a successful operation, Gomes has been released from hospital and should make a full recovery.
Son will have to deal with his guilt as best he can.


----------



## robinthehood (Nov 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			The actual incident was only two days ago to be fair lol
		
Click to expand...

Lol it's all I've heard at work . Seems like  a lot longer than that


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 5, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Which I totally agree with and like Klinsman perfected the professional dive. Pep has perfected the professional foul  yet when it leads to injuries that have happened it's ok. If that had been fernandinho that did that. Wonder who would be the first to say " it was only a matter of time".
		
Click to expand...

ME.


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah, it was Blackpool in 2010 but  in fairness though it was just before the PL agreed to a 25 man squad. Nevertheless I doubt we'll see many, if any, of the 25 man squad at villa Park that night.
		
Click to expand...

Are you sure? I thought the 25 man squad was in place which is why Holloway kicked off about it so much. I thought the rules got changed after this to allow any combination of the 25 man squad meaning no punishment, but there was a punishment if you fielded too many under 21â€™s.

after a quick look on google though I couldnâ€™t find when the 25 man squad rule was introduced


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 5, 2019)

sam85 said:



			My point is you can't go round dishing out red cards for endagering a player.  There is an element of danger in each and every tackle that is made in football.  Changing the colour of cards based on what injuries a player receives sets a dangerous precedent imo.
		
Click to expand...

There has to be a difference between going for the ball and just going for the man.! 
Son just went for the man that should be red imo.


----------



## robinthehood (Nov 5, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			There has to be a difference between going for the ball and just going for the man.!
Son just went for the man that should be red imo.
		
Click to expand...

You can petition IFAB to change the rules.


----------



## sam85 (Nov 5, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			There has to be a difference between going for the ball and just going for the man.!
Son just went for the man that should be red imo.
		
Click to expand...

That's a whole different debate though and while that may be what you and a couple of others on here would like to see under the current rules that's not the case which is exactly why the original red card has been rescinded.


----------



## robinthehood (Nov 5, 2019)

sam85 said:



			That's a whole different debate though and while that may be what you and a couple of others on here would like to see under the current rules that's not the case which is exactly why the original red card has been rescinded.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly and to be honest it should have been over turned on the day by VAR.


----------



## MegaSteve (Nov 5, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			There has to be a difference between going for the ball and just going for the man.!
Son just went for the man that should be red imo.
		
Click to expand...




robinthehood said:



			You can petition IFAB to change the rules.
		
Click to expand...

I will be your seconder cc98...


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 5, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			You can petition IFAB to change the rules.
		
Click to expand...

I think that will happen soon anyway.
All tackles will be banned within 5 yrs the way itâ€™s going.
It will be a non contact sport soon.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 5, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Pretty sure at the time all teams were obliged to field teams that weren't agsint the integrity of the game. 

All teams will have a core of 14/15 players wolves changed 10 players and admitted to basically throwing it through choice. 

Liverpool won't be under the same scrutiny as they've got the 2 games to cover.
		
Click to expand...

If our kids can turn Arsenal's 1st team over and score 5, we have a chance against Villa.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 5, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			If our kids can turn Arsenal's 1st team over and score 5, we have a chance against Villa.
		
Click to expand...

But that team included Englandâ€™s best defender......

Without him it could have been 10!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 5, 2019)

Whilst the injury was awful for the player the foul itself was a yellow at most , the player getting injured as a result of a â€œfoulâ€ that wasnâ€™t reckless etc shouldnt imo have been upgraded to a red

Atkinson reacted to the injury which shows how poor a ref he really is and even worse is VAR should have looked at the tackle and overturned the red card at the time

Good to hear Gomez surgery went well

As for the cup - itâ€™s no surprise really they arenâ€™t moving the match , it means they have now forced the club to play a youth team in the cup. I hope the club priorities are with the club World Cup and this is the start of the demise of the League Cup - imo itâ€™s run itâ€™s course now especially with more internationals being played


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 5, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			ME.
		
Click to expand...

Me, I seen it first.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 5, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think that will happen soon anyway.
All tackles will be banned within 5 yrs the way itâ€™s going.
It will be a non contact sport soon.
		
Click to expand...

Thank God, Mane will have retired by then.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Whilst the injury was awful for the player the foul itself was a yellow at most , the player getting injured as a result of a â€œfoulâ€ that wasnâ€™t reckless etc shouldnt imo have been upgraded to a red

Atkinson reacted to the injury which shows how poor a ref he really is and even worse is VAR should have looked at the tackle and overturned the red card at the time

Good to hear Gomez surgery went well

As for the cup - itâ€™s no surprise really they arenâ€™t moving the match *, it means they have now forced the club to play a youth team in the cup*. I hope the club priorities are with the club World Cup and this is the start of the demise of the League Cup - imo itâ€™s run itâ€™s course now especially with more internationals being played
		
Click to expand...

Who is "they". The club in their own statement said the EFL suggested other dates. 

If anything Liverpool probably decided to write the cup off instead of play more games later. 

Id be surprised if you don't prioritise the world club cup as its the one that is ever so slightly more respected, but will also have better financial advantages.


----------



## fundy (Nov 5, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			If our kids can turn Arsenal's 1st team over and score 5, we have a chance against Villa.
		
Click to expand...

nice creative licence that lol, kids again first team? probably should check the line ups again


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 5, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Me, I seen it first. 

Click to expand...

To late


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 5, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			If our kids can turn Arsenal's 1st team over and score 5, we have a chance against Villa.
		
Click to expand...

I would put a under 18 side out just to protest.
The Authorities here do nothing to help teams.
Just pay any fine.
I am sure the lads on here would throw a few bob in a crowd fund for us.


----------



## Wolf (Nov 5, 2019)

The red card for Son has been overturned. Rightly so in my opinion, the challenge should never have been more than a yellow in the first place, the injury was a freak accident. Yes the tackle caused the loss of balance but it did not cause the injury.

Hopefully having had his successful surgery now Gomes can focus on recovery and come back fit and healthy. 

In other news.. Xhaka stripped of the Arsenal captaincy, that is the best news us Arsenal fans have had in weeks.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Chelsea v Ajax has had a decent opening 20 minutes, 3 goals already.


----------



## Norrin Radd (Nov 5, 2019)

In other news Brighton (currently a heady 8th)
Will not be getting anymore points from the next four prem  games as they have the worst run imaginable coming up starting with United away ,and then it gets worse . Leicester at home Liverpool away then arsenal away.cant see many points coming from that lot.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 5, 2019)

Norrin Radd said:



			In other news Brighton (currently a heady 8th)
Will not be getting anymore points from the next four prem  games as they have the worst run imaginable coming up starting with United away ,and then it gets worse . Leicester at home Liverpool away then arsenal away.cant see many points coming from that lot.
		
Click to expand...

Dunno. The last 3 defo sound tough......


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 5, 2019)

Wolf said:



			The red card for Son has been overturned. Rightly so in my opinion, the challenge should never have been more than a yellow in the first place, the injury was a freak accident. Yes the tackle caused the loss of balance but it did not cause the injury.

Hopefully having had his successful surgery now Gomes can focus on recovery and come back fit and healthy.

In other news.. Xhaka stripped of the Arsenal captaincy, that is the best news us Arsenal fans have had in weeks.
		
Click to expand...

Right decision the red card being overturned ,trouble is Atkinson probably cost us a win.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Ajax down to 9 and 4-3 up, could be a good last 20 minutes.

Oops 4-4


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			Right decision the red card being overturned ,trouble is Atkinson probably cost us a win.
		
Click to expand...

VAR saved you from a defeat.


----------



## Slime (Nov 5, 2019)

Frank Sinclair says the ref ought to take his Ajax shirt off!
He's having an emotional night, sounds like an interesting game though.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 5, 2019)

Slime said:



			Frank Sinclair says the ref ought to take his Ajax shirt off!
He's having an emotional night, sounds like an interesting game though.
		
Click to expand...

Ajax imploded but a good point for Chelsea after being 4-1 down.

And you canâ€™t keep that man Abraham from scoring ðŸ˜—


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2019)

Great game at the Bridge for the neutral, be interesting to see how Chelsea fans viewed it, 4-1 down back to 4-4 and a goal disallowed by VAR for Chelsea for handball.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 5, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Ajax imploded but a good point for Chelsea after being 4-1 down.

And you canâ€™t keep that man Abraham from scoring ðŸ˜—
		
Click to expand...

He's that confident he's scoring own goals now ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 5, 2019)

fundy said:



			nice creative licence that lol, kids again first team? probably should check the line ups again
		
Click to expand...

Caught a fish, first dip.


----------



## fundy (Nov 6, 2019)

Another day another structure for the players to try, like lucky dip under Emery lol


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 6, 2019)

5 at the back against a pub team. No DM, so we are letting Vitoria shoot from everywhere.

Getting battered so far.


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 6, 2019)

3rd different set up in 3 games. Nice to have a recognisable style of play.


----------



## fundy (Nov 6, 2019)

still no proper press, still wide open every time we lose the ball and getting overrun in midfield, initial signs not the best and yet again it looks like players struggling to work out whats expected of them apart from trying to play out from the back every time


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 6, 2019)

Don't worry, Sean will be on soon to say it is all part of a tactical masterclass against one of Europes greats.


----------



## fundy (Nov 6, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Don't worry, Sean will be on soon to say it is all part of a tactical masterclass against one of Europes greats.
		
Click to expand...

lifes far easier with him on ignore


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 6, 2019)

Mustafi gets the first card of the game. No surprise there then.


----------



## Wolf (Nov 6, 2019)

Further proof Emery doesn't have a tactical clue of how to set up the squad at his disposal. Different formation, same lack of tactics. Wide players are so narrow they may as well be holding hands with Martinelli, no press in the midfield or from the back 3, allowing so many shots from outside the box. Not to mention his 4 captains setup of which none are playing so the armband goes elsewhere at random ðŸ™„.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 6, 2019)

Why are Arsenal playing today? Normally it is a Thursday for Europa matches.


----------



## fundy (Nov 6, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Why are Arsenal playing today? Normally it is a Thursday for Europa matches.
		
Click to expand...

At the request of Portguese police to avoid a clash


----------



## Wolf (Nov 6, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Why are Arsenal playing today? Normally it is a Thursday for Europa matches.
		
Click to expand...

The match is today due to Portugal police request, however to say we are playing is a very posse term indeed. We have 11 players on the field but wouldn't call it football, more like headless chickens due to tactical ineptitude


----------



## fundy (Nov 6, 2019)

Tierney holding his face having been tickled ffs, get up


----------



## Paperboy (Nov 6, 2019)

fundy said:



			Tierney holding his face having been tickled ffs, get up
		
Click to expand...

I thought it was his knee that got hit


----------



## Wolf (Nov 6, 2019)

Just heard the start we haven't had a shot on target for over 103 minutes, says a lot about our creative element, then factor in how many chances we've conceded it's no surprise we're a mess.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 6, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Why are Arsenal playing today? Normally it is a Thursday for Europa matches.
		
Click to expand...

Not only that but at 3:50 in the afternoon! Bizarre.


----------



## fundy (Nov 6, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Not only that but at 3:50 in the afternoon! Bizarre.
		
Click to expand...

not allowed to play at same time as Champs League games having moved day


----------



## Fish (Nov 6, 2019)

oops, then nearly nicked a winner


----------



## fundy (Nov 6, 2019)

Absolutely dire performance, completely directionless and the players just look confused. Look like papering over the cracks from a set piece and couldnt even hold onto that. 

#EmeryOut


----------



## Wolf (Nov 6, 2019)

fundy said:



			Absolutely dire performance, completely directionless and the players just look confused. Look like papering over the cracks from a set piece and couldnt even hold onto that.
*
#EmeryOut*

Click to expand...

That bit right there sums up what needs to happen. 
Complete lack of direction or even an idea of what direction he wants the squad to take. Players are totally confused with his tactics or lack of, he literally is just making it worse with each change he makes


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 6, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Don't worry, Sean will be on soon to say it is all part of a tactical masterclass against one of Europes greats.
		
Click to expand...

I must have a very low bar set for acceptable results but 1-1 away to that opponent seems a good result to me. I'm not sure about a tactical masterclass but I do think there is a method to his madness and that one day the team will settle down. I like the way that Emery is not afraid to play younger players and he's taking his time with Bellerin, Holding, Martinelli etc.

Also, nice to read that the Etienne coach deeply regrets selling Saliba to Arsenal,  based on his current form I think we have some player coming to us next year. 

You may as well get behind Emery because hes here to he end of the season at least.


----------



## JanellCain (Nov 6, 2019)

You really help everyone who likes to take photos! Thanks for this info.
http://fixthephoto.com/instagram-photoshop-actions


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 6, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			I must have a very low bar set for acceptable results but 1-1 away to that opponent seems a good result to me. I'm not sure about a tactical masterclass but I do think there is a method to his madness and that one day the team will settle down. I like the way that Emery is not afraid to play younger players and he's taking his time with *Bellerin*, Holding, Martinelli etc.

Also, nice to read that the Etienne coach deeply regrets selling Saliba to Arsenal,  based on his current form I think we have some player coming to us next year.

You may as well get behind Emery because hes here to he end of the season at least.

Click to expand...

 The guy is 24 and has 150 apps for you.


----------



## paddyc (Nov 6, 2019)

Didnt see the gooners but just watched the 5 mins of highlights  on you tube and that was depressing. arent this 2nd rate portugese team near the bottom. we had a decent team out on paper and still played crap. worrying sign.
# EmeryOut


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 6, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			You may as well get behind Emery because hes here to he end of the season at least.

Click to expand...

Not 100% convinced about that. Lose to Leicester and drop down the table and an early Europa league knockout exit and things will look bleak especially if the style of play is still poor. It really does look as an outsider, and one who wants any English club to do well in Europe as though there is no cohesive game plan. Add in the fact he doesn't seem to know his strongest PL side and the way they've played has lacked conviction and players seem to be lost or not have the heart for a tough season ahead


----------



## Fish (Nov 6, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			I must have a very low bar set for acceptable results but 1-1 away to that opponent seems a good result to me.
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜œðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 6, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not 100% convinced about that. Lose to Leicester and drop down the table and an early Europa league knockout exit and things will look bleak especially if the style of play is still poor. It really does look as an outsider, and one who wants any English club to do well in Europe as though there is no cohesive game plan. Add in the fact he doesn't seem to know his strongest PL side and the way they've played has lacked conviction and players seem to be lost or not have the heart for a tough season ahead
		
Click to expand...

The moaners got their way with Wenger I cant see the Arsenal board caving in for a second time. 

Its not Man U.


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 6, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			The moaners got their way with Wenger I cant see the Arsenal board caving in for a second time.

Its not Man U. 

Click to expand...

There is no shame in admitting an appointment is not working, esp one made by an ex employee, Gazidis, who was an absolute fraud.

Emery will be fine, he will move on to a new job, and the World will keep ticking along.

His tenure at Arsenal needs to be over. He hasn't got the ability to turn this around now. 18 months is a long time with no discernable improvement.  The only reason he is still there, is that the board is clueless as to what to do next.

Hopefully not following Utd, and appointing a Mourinho or a Van Gaal.

They need a manager with a dream, a vision, the sauce to carry it out, and get the players to buy into it. That isn't easy, but they are out there. 

Stop looking at what is available, and look at ripping a manager out from a team who do nit want to let him go.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 6, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			The moaners got their way with Wenger I cant see the Arsenal board caving in for a second time.

Its not Man U. 

Click to expand...

Do you really think Wenger should have stayed on ? 

It looks like your level of expectations drop each season - Emery is clearly not the right manage for Arsenal and they should have learned for hanging onto Wenger for too long 

Because they didnâ€™t let Wenger when it was clear he had reached the end they missed out on getting someone like Klopp , right now someone like Allegri is available and some other very good young managers like Naglesmann - if they donâ€™t act quickly then they will miss out again

Arsenal are very close to dropping out of the top 6 and just being a mid table team for the forseable future


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 6, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			There is no shame in admitting an appointment is not working, esp one made by an ex employee, Gazidis, who was an absolute fraud.

Emery will be fine, he will move on to a new job, and the World will keep ticking along.

His tenure at Arsenal needs to be over. He hasn't got the ability to turn this around now. 18 months is a long time with no discernable improvement.  The only reason he is still there, is that the board is clueless as to what to do next.

Hopefully not following Utd, and appointing a Mourinho or a Van Gaal.

They need a manager with a dream, a vision, the sauce to carry it out, and get the players to buy into it. That isn't easy, but they are out there.

Stop looking at what is available, and look at ripping a manager out from a team who do nit want to let him go.
		
Click to expand...


So did Wenger leave Arsenal in a total mess?  If so surely it takes a new man a lot of time (more than 18 mths) and with more of his own players , style , philosophy, tactics, etc, to change things?

Or did you think that Wenger left the team close to being a great side again? With only minor tweaking required? 

You cant have it both ways Murph, which is it?


----------



## Wolf (Nov 6, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			So did Wenger leave Arsenal in a total mess?  If so surely it takes a new man a lot of time (more than 18 mths) and with more of his own players , style , philosophy, tactics, etc, to change things?

Or did you think that Wenger left the team close to being a great side again? With only minor tweaking required? 

You cant have it both ways Murph, which is it?
		
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter which way it is, 18mths is still enough time to get the players at your disposal playing in a way that befits the team including the signings you make. Yet every week we have different formations, players playing out of position and a dressing room that has severe unrest. 

There is no shame in the board admitting they made a bad decision with employing Emery. Better to cut losses before matters get worse and go for someine fresh that actually had a philosophy on how he wants the team to work together and for the club. 

In case you hadn't realised football is a results business but the way it's going we'll be luck to even make a Europa league spot and currently are not going into the Leicester game as the supposed better team that we should be. Unless you're happy with mediocrity


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 6, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Doesn't matter which way it is, 18mths is still enough time to get the players at your disposal playing in a way that befits the team including the signings you make. Yet every week we have different formations, players playing out of position and a dressing room that has severe unrest.

There is no shame in the board admitting they made a bad decision with employing Emery. Better to cut losses before matters get worse and go for someine fresh that actually had a philosophy on how he wants the team to work together and for the club.

In case you hadn't realised football is a results business but the way it's going we'll be luck to even make a Europa league spot and currently are not going into the Leicester game as the supposed better team that we should be. Unless you're happy with mediocrity
		
Click to expand...

We are in a period of transition and a certain degree of patience is required.

I would be happy to give Emery a maximum of 18 months from now to prove his worth.

He may yet turn out to be a very good choice we just donâ€™t know.


----------



## Wolf (Nov 6, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			We are in a period of transition and a certain degree of patience is required.

I would be happy to give Emery a maximum of 18 months from now to prove his worth.

He may yet turn out to be a very good choice we just donâ€™t know.
		
Click to expand...

No we are not in a period of transformation, we are in a downward spiral as the man at helm doesn't have a clue what his best side is, beat formation and he can't even get players playing in the right position. 

You may be happy to give him 18mths, but he already has issues in the dressing room, we will only go further backwards backwards. Most fans aren't willing to sit and hope it turns out OK and if it doesn't we're in a worse position and will find it harder to recruit quality... 

Make the move now for someone that has a vision and can get the players to buy his philosophy


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 6, 2019)

So 18 months from now he will have had 3 years. Way too long. If he can't get a team looking like it knows where it is going, what it is doing, in 18 months, he should be gone.

I am not even thinking about winning stuff. Just looking like we might have a style of play that might become something. 

We used to win the league. I get that you (Sean) think we can't compete against money, and you are wrong, but currently we can't compete against the 5th best team in Portugal.


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Nov 6, 2019)

Oi

The name calling stops here please

Not a request


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 6, 2019)

Ederson goes off at half time  as a precaution, hopefully itâ€™s just Pep and his mind games...


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 6, 2019)

Son scores for Spurs.... twice.

Definitely looks like he's back on the horse. For what it's worth I think he was absolutely and genuinely distraught by the incident at the weekend and his part in it and of course the terrible outcome. I thought it was perhaps a big call from the manager to play him tonight given the events but clearly he has got over it and a good nights work for Spurs


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 6, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Ederson goes off at half time  as a precaution, hopefully itâ€™s just Pep and his mind games...
		
Click to expand...

Canâ€™t understand tha Atalanta player there he was past Bravo why not just score.
Walker in goal may answer the question.
He left his foot there that was a questionable red.imo.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 6, 2019)

What was Bravo thinking. The City defence definitely look less confidence ahead of him than with Ederson in goal and what does that do to the City defence and Pep's tactics for the game at the weekend. Farcical by UEFA in the whole red card and sub board that followed


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 6, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			So 18 months from now he will have had 3 years. Way too long. If he can't get a team looking like it knows where it is going, what it is doing, in 18 months, he should be gone.

I am not even thinking about winning stuff. Just looking like we might have a style of play that might become something.

We used to win the league. I get that you (Sean) think we can't compete against money, and you are wrong, but currently we can't compete against the 5th best team in Portugal.
		
Click to expand...

Well if we played that team in Portugal 38 times we would win 25, thatâ€™s how it works. On a one off of course they can snatch a draw or even win.

You canâ€™t see past the end of your nose, need to step back and look at the big picture. Give the man some time and see what he can do thatâ€™s all Iâ€™m saying.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 6, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			I must have a very low bar set for acceptable results but 1-1 away to that opponent seems a good result to me.
		
Click to expand...

Hahahaha! That is absolute gold.


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 7, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Well if we played that team in Portugal 38 times we would win 25, thatâ€™s how it works. On a one off of course they can snatch a draw or even win.

You canâ€™t see past the end of your nose, need to step back and look at the big picture. Give the man some time and see what he can do thatâ€™s all Iâ€™m saying.
		
Click to expand...

The problem I am having is that I can see way past the end of my nose. Commercial revenue is falling, players don't want new contracts, results are appalling, the manager appears clueless, the board and owners do not appear to have any sort of long term plan, and unless this is turned around pdq I can see mid table mediocrity coming for a very very long time.

This is a football club heavily in decline.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 7, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			So did Wenger leave Arsenal in a total mess?  If so surely it takes a new man a lot of time (more than 18 mths) and with more of his own players , style , philosophy, tactics, etc, to change things?

Or did you think that Wenger left the team close to being a great side again? With only minor tweaking required? 

You cant have it both ways Murph, which is it?
		
Click to expand...

But that also applies to you too. You kept banging on about what a great job Wenger was doing and that he should stay and that you were a decent team. If so then 18 months is more than enough time for a new manager to sort things out.

You were happy with Wenger as your manager so obviously thought he was doing well. Or did he actually leave the team in a mess and that's why it's taking Emery so long to sort things out?

You can't have it both ways Sawtooth, which is it?


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 7, 2019)

Sadio Mane jokes he will 'dive' again if it gets Liverpool a penalty

Hmmm.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 7, 2019)

Orikoru said:



Sadio Mane jokes he will 'dive' again if it gets Liverpool a penalty

Hmmm. 

Click to expand...

Most players prob think this but a bit silly saying it out loud!


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 7, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Most players prob think this but a bit silly saying it out loud!
		
Click to expand...

They've used the word 'jokes' in the headline, but I'm not sure what made them decide it was a joke. He basically said he will try and earn his team a penalty either way. Personally it doesn't bother me but some people (especially in here) will be outraged by him saying it.


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 7, 2019)

Wenger left the club in a huge mess. 

The Ox ran his contract down jumped and ship, Ramsey ran his contract down and the only world class performer (Sanchez 2013-2016) they had in the last 5 years did the same and was offloaded in a terrible swap deal. Meanwhile Ozil who is a 1 in 3 luxury player got offered a new deal that unbalanced the wages. He's done more on Twitter than on the pitch in the last two years 

He left the club with a defence that bordered on a joke, a weak and lightweight midfield and the only two players of note were both strikers which posed a selection and formation problem. It was a mess!

I don't think Emery is the greatest manager by any means but who are Arsenal going to get to do a better job? They have a buget dwarfed by City and Utd. Even Liverpool and Spurs spend more these days.

Arsenal moved to the new stadium to compete with the likes of Man Utd (at the time), Real, Barca and Bayern. Yet the gap is further than ever and that's down to Wenger's last 10 years. His outlook was pretty football, Top 4 and making money to claim a moral highground. That's still the attitude running through the club.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 7, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			They've used the word 'jokes' in the headline, but I'm not sure what made them decide it was a joke. He basically said he will try and earn his team a penalty either way. Personally it doesn't bother me but some people (especially in here) will be outraged by him saying it.
		
Click to expand...

Well one will.


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 7, 2019)

I found it strange that when Greenwood scored a very well taken goal he ambeled off as if he just scored in a practice game and not in a European game at Old Trafford.

United playing well, the number 20 Sulmah looks a decent player.


----------



## Slime (Nov 7, 2019)

All three strikers on the score sheet.
Greenwood's goal, well taken.
Martial's goal, superb solo effort.
Rashford's goal, a thing of rare beauty.
Oh, and another clean sheet! The only team not to concede a goal in the competition.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 7, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			But that also applies to you too. You kept banging on about what a great job Wenger was doing and that he should stay and that you were a decent team. If so then 18 months is more than enough time for a new manager to sort things out.

You were happy with Wenger as your manager so obviously thought he was doing well. Or did he actually leave the team in a mess and that's why it's taking Emery so long to sort things out?

You can't have it both ways Sawtooth, which is it?
		
Click to expand...

I think Wenger was ( imo) a season or two from having another great side and he left the club in a infinitely better place than it was before he got there.

Emery is Spanish, language and communication will no doubt be a hindrance early on but will get better over time. He never managed in England before. English football is different to Spanish and itâ€™s different again to French. There will be a period of adjustment and thatâ€™s pretty obvious.

It would be a mistake to change him this early.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 7, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			The problem I am having is that I can see way past the end of my nose. Commercial revenue is falling, players don't want new contracts, results are appalling, the manager appears clueless, the board and owners do not appear to have any sort of long term plan, and unless this is turned around pdq I can see mid table mediocrity coming for a very very long time.

This is a football club heavily in decline.
		
Click to expand...

Well after the fantastically high standards set by Wenger 22 years it shouldnâ€™t be a surprise that the club may decline a bit before picking up again.

I said it several times that getting a team into the top 4 is not easy and should not be taken for granted.

If it wasnâ€™t for Wenger you would be happy with the current situation. I believe you expect the next manager to be as good or better than Wenger - immediately.

Thats pretty unrealistic and unfair to Emery.


----------



## Hobbit (Nov 8, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Well after the fantastically high standards set by Wenger 22 years it shouldnâ€™t be a surprise that the club may decline a bit before picking up again.

I said it several times that getting a team into the top 4 is not easy and should not be taken for granted.

If it wasnâ€™t for Wenger you would be happy with the current situation. I believe you expect the next manager to be as good or better than Wenger - immediately.

Thats pretty unrealistic and unfair to Emery.
		
Click to expand...

Sean , nearly every post is Wenger, Wenger, Wenger. He's gone. Whatever reason he went for is not even yesterday's news. Whatever team he had when he left is (almost) gone. 

Football is results driven, not history driven. History is good to look back on, providing there's good history. Go back far enough and there's good history but that has no bearing on now - drop the Wenger, Wenger, Wenger. Its pointless and irrelevant to today's results and performances.

11 games in and in 5th place. Not bad, or is it? 6 points adrift of 4th is only 2 games... catchable. But 9 goals less in the 'goals for' column, and a goal difference of 7 less. 5th place but not really competing for 4th, more staying ahead of the teams behind. Arsenal are trending down, not up. 11 games in isn't really enough time to confirm how the season will pan out but is 4th is achievable? Only if Chelsea slip up, and they're trending up, not down.


----------



## Bazzatron (Nov 8, 2019)

1 point away from the knock out stages of the Europa League 

Couldn't have imagined this on the day we were relegated for the second season in a row, into league one.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 8, 2019)

It would appear even the Wenger star is waning https://www.skysports.com/football/...ut-of-race-to-become-bayern-munich-head-coach 

I agree that Arsenal are definitely on a downward trend and the signs for me as a neutral aren't encouraging. I do think a lot of the problems in terms of team selection and tactics which have times have looked confused (even to the players) is down to Emery. He has 18 months and so should have had a solid base on which to build upon in place by now and that simply doesn't seem to be the case


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 8, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			I think Wenger was ( imo) a season or two from having another great side and he left the club in a infinitely better place than it was before he got there.

Emery is Spanish, language and communication will no doubt be a hindrance early on but will get better over time. He never managed in England before. English football is different to Spanish and itâ€™s different again to French. There will be a period of adjustment and thatâ€™s pretty obvious.

It would be a mistake to change him this early.
		
Click to expand...

In 18 months - Klopp took over a team that had finished 8th the season before , was around 10th in the league , to two cup finals and into the top 4 , he also had a net transfer spend off around Â£13 mill profit 

In an 18th month period

Emery has take a team that was 6th to 5th gained 7 more points , right now they are sat in 5th also got to one cup final and has spent approx just under Â£200mil

The fans are paying the most expensive tickets in the league

So are they getting value for their money ?
has Emery moved the club forward when you consider the amount he has spent ?

Has he built a solid foundation for the future ?

Is there a structure or a plan

Listening to most Arsenal fans it would seem that the answer to those questions is no

The club hung on with Wenger for too long - everyone could see he was taking the club backwards

And itâ€™s clear to most that Emery isnâ€™t the man to take the club forwards - he is treading water at best


----------



## Wolf (Nov 8, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			I think Wenger was ( imo) a season or two from having another great side and he left the club in a infinitely better place than it was before he got there.

Emery is Spanish, language and communication will no doubt be a hindrance early on but will get better over time. He never managed in England before. English football is different to Spanish and itâ€™s different again to French. There will be a period of adjustment and thatâ€™s pretty obvious.

It would be a mistake to change him this early.
		
Click to expand...




sawtooth said:



			Well after the fantastically high standards set by Wenger 22 years it shouldnâ€™t be a surprise that the club may decline a bit before picking up again.

I said it several times that getting a team into the top 4 is not easy and should not be taken for granted.

If it wasnâ€™t for Wenger you would be happy with the current situation. I believe you expect the next manager to be as good or better than Wenger - immediately.

Thats pretty unrealistic and unfair to Emery.
		
Click to expand...

Wow, you really do have some Wenger rose tinted specs on. Yes he set high standards in the first half of his career with us, however the last 10 years of his tenure were not fantasticly high standards at all, many a time just creeping into 4th spot and acting as a manager that just balanced the books, letting the squad get very bare in quality at times, even tactically he got to a point where he couldn't see past 1 style of play that was often negated by even the smallest teams as it became predictable.

Then to say he was a year or 2 away again from a great season, no he really wasn't, because as our squad stood still the likes of Liverpool, City, Chelsea and even Spurs went past us in quality of players signed and football played.

As for Emery 18mths is enough time to put into place his personality, style and ideas for what the team should be looking to do, however time and again players are played in wrong position, formation changes, the players are confused by what is expected and over playing the balls they're not sure what the manager wants. Not to mention the debacle of the 5 (now4) captains set up. Then there's the unrest in the dressing room at his method's.

The club need a man to come in sit the players down and accurately tell them what is expected of them and how he plans to get them there, Emery isnt the man for that job. The club is trending badly downwards, as that continues to happen attracting players will be harder and we're not in a fight for top 4, we're just keeping our head afloat in the race for 5th/6th but that could get worse as this style continues. I don't want a Mourinho or someone like that, I'd rather a fresh approach with a manager that is willing to mix it up and build on what's there already and stamp a style on the squad that is recognisable beyond the confusion we have.


----------



## fundy (Nov 8, 2019)

I see the troll is still keeping everyone occupied lol

I saw a stat earlier, "Arsenal have now faced 60 shots this Europa League season, fewer only than FC Astana, FK Krasnodar and Dudelange"

In the premier league the stat I expect is even worse (Ill look it up in a bit)

If this is progress then Im out!!!!


----------



## fundy (Nov 8, 2019)

Arsenal are currently having 12.9 and conceding 16.2 shots per game in the premier league

Compare that to:

Leicester 13.7/10
Chelsea  16.5/9.3
Man U  13.9/10.1
Spurs  12.1/14.9

the only positive in these numbers is spurs are nearly as bad as we are lol

Even with a top class striker and a very good shot stopper, you just cant succeed continually giving up more chances than you create!!!

By the way, as it will be asked, the current bar is:

Man City 21.8/6.9
Liverpool 17/9


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 8, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Wow, you really do have some Wenger rose tinted specs on. Yes he set high standards in the first half of his career with us, however the last 10 years of his tenure were not fantasticly high standards at all, many a time just creeping into 4th spot and acting as a manager that just balanced the books, letting the squad get very bare in quality at times, even tactically he got to a point where he couldn't see past 1 style of play that was often negated by even the smallest teams as it became predictable.

Then to say he was a year or 2 away again from a great season, no he really wasn't, because as our squad stood still the likes of Liverpool, City, Chelsea and even Spurs went past us in quality of players signed and football played.

As for Emery 18mths is enough time to put into place his personality, style and ideas for what the team should be looking to do, however time and again players are played in wrong position, formation changes, the players are confused by what is expected and over playing the balls they're not sure what the manager wants. Not to mention the debacle of the 5 (now4) captains set up. Then there's the unrest in the dressing room at his method's.

The club need a man to come in sit the players down and accurately tell them what is expected of them and how he plans to get them there, Emery isnt the man for that job. The club is trending badly downwards, as that continues to happen attracting players will be harder and we're not in a fight for top 4, we're just keeping our head afloat in the race for 5th/6th but that could get worse as this style continues. I don't want a Mourinho or someone like that, I'd rather a fresh approach with a manager that is willing to mix it up and build on what's there already and stamp a style on the squad that is recognisable beyond the confusion we have.
		
Click to expand...

I dont always like it when people just mention the current downsides/negatives, but think you've actually got it spot on here.

I'd say of most of the top 10 arsenal are currently the side with the least "identity".


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 8, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Sean , nearly every post is Wenger, Wenger, Wenger. He's gone. Whatever reason he went for is not even yesterday's news. Whatever team he had when he left is (almost) gone.

Football is results driven, not history driven. History is good to look back on, providing there's good history. Go back far enough and there's good history but that has no bearing on now - drop the Wenger, Wenger, Wenger. Its pointless and irrelevant to today's results and performances.

11 games in and in 5th place. Not bad, or is it? 6 points adrift of 4th is only 2 games... catchable. But 9 goals less in the 'goals for' column, and a goal difference of 7 less. 5th place but not really competing for 4th, more staying ahead of the teams behind. Arsenal are trending down, not up. 11 games in isn't really enough time to confirm how the season will pan out but is 4th is achievable? Only if Chelsea slip up, and they're trending up, not down.
		
Click to expand...

Hey thatâ€™s not true I havenâ€™t mentioned Wenger for ages!

And yes of course 4th is achievable. In my lifetime Iâ€™ve seen 12 points deficit made up in the last few months of a season before .

Iâ€™m pretty sure that we can make 6 points up with so much of the season ahead of us.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In 18 months - Klopp took over a team that had finished 8th the season before , was around 10th in the league , to two cup finals and into the top 4 , he also had a net transfer spend off around Â£13 mill profit

In an 18th month period

Emery has take a team that was 6th to 5th gained 7 more points , right now they are sat in 5th also got to one cup final and has spent approx just under Â£200mil

The fans are paying the most expensive tickets in the league

So are they getting value for their money ?
has Emery moved the club forward when you consider the amount he has spent ?

Has he built a solid foundation for the future ?

Is there a structure or a plan

Listening to most Arsenal fans it would seem that the answer to those questions is no

The club hung on with Wenger for too long - everyone could see he was taking the club backwards

And itâ€™s clear to most that Emery isnâ€™t the man to take the club forwards - he is treading water at best
		
Click to expand...

yeah but it took Klopp 3 years to win something at Liverpool and he still hasnâ€™t won anything domestically.

2nd, 3rd, 4th in the league is that really what you call success? I think not.


----------



## fundy (Nov 8, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I dont always like it when people just mention the current downsides/negatives, but think you've actually got it spot on here.

I'd say of most of the top 10 arsenal are currently the side with the least "identity".
		
Click to expand...

describe one of our current midfielders roles? (and i dont mean water carrying for Ozil  )  they dont appear to have a clue what position they play or what theyre role is


----------



## Wolf (Nov 8, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			yeah but it took Klopp 3 years to win something at Liverpool and he still hasnâ€™t won anything domestically.

*2nd, 3rd, 4th in the league is that really what you call success? I think not.*

Click to expand...

Yet you quote Wenger set high standards, a manager that in the last decade of his career was happy to scrape 4th place if lucky..  

Yep double standards from the troll....


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 8, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Wow, you really do have some Wenger rose tinted specs on. Yes he set high standards in the first half of his career with us, however the last 10 years of his tenure were not fantasticly high standards at all, many a time just creeping into 4th spot and acting as a manager that just balanced the books, letting the squad get very bare in quality at times, even tactically he got to a point where he couldn't see past 1 style of play that was often negated by even the smallest teams as it became predictable.

Then to say he was a year or 2 away again from a great season, no he really wasn't, because as our squad stood still the likes of Liverpool, City, Chelsea and even Spurs went past us in quality of players signed and football played.

As for Emery 18mths is enough time to put into place his personality, style and ideas for what the team should be looking to do, however time and again players are played in wrong position, formation changes, the players are confused by what is expected and over playing the balls they're not sure what the manager wants. Not to mention the debacle of the 5 (now4) captains set up. Then there's the unrest in the dressing room at his method's.

The club need a man to come in sit the players down and accurately tell them what is expected of them and how he plans to get them there, Emery isnt the man for that job. The club is trending badly downwards, as that continues to happen attracting players will be harder and we're not in a fight for top 4, we're just keeping our head afloat in the race for 5th/6th but that could get worse as this style continues. I don't want a Mourinho or someone like that, I'd rather a fresh approach with a manager that is willing to mix it up and build on what's there already and stamp a style on the squad that is recognisable beyond the confusion we have.
		
Click to expand...

It will be most likely be Brendan Rodgers. The club have already started to sound him out.

Arsenal are obviously a much bigger club than Leicester and he would be a fool to turn it down but you never know in football.

My preference is give Emery more time and tee BR up to replace him in 1-2 years if no improvement. I stress that Emery can still turn this around and itâ€™s work in progress, just not happening quickly enough for some.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 8, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Yet you quote Wenger set high standards, a manager that in the last decade of his career was happy to scrape 4th place if lucky..

Yep double standards from the troll....
		
Click to expand...

No not really, I think those positions are actually a measure of success and have said so many times.

It was tongue in cheek because Phil keeps banging on about not settling for those places.Now itâ€™s happening with Klopp ( not Wenger) I wonder if his view will change?

Phil will you be calling for Klopp to go if you donâ€™t win the PL this year?

I have a funny feeling that might be a no. And it will be a no again next year if Klopp finishes top 4 without a PL win.

why? Because Klopp has Liverpool playing very well and is competing YoY with all top clubs. And itâ€™s not all about honours.

Just like Wenger did.ðŸ‘


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 8, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			yeah but it took Klopp 3 years to win something at Liverpool and he still hasnâ€™t won anything domestically.

2nd, 3rd, 4th in the league is that really what you call success? I think not.
		
Click to expand...

Seriously sean ? Itâ€™s called progress and moving forward to give the club the ability to challenge and right now they are - every season is a step forward , a identity has been rebuilt , foundations for the future , we have gone from struggling to get into top 6 to winning the CL and challenging for the Title 

Can you see any progress from Emery ? Can you see what identify he is trying to create for the team ? Can you see the plan ? 


sawtooth said:



			It will be most likely be Brendan Rodgers. The club have already started to sound him out.

Arsenal are obviously a much bigger club than Leicester and he would be a fool to turn it down but you never know in football.

My preference is give Emery more time and tee BR up to replace him in 1-2 years if no improvement. I stress that Emery can still turn this around and itâ€™s work in progress, just not happening quickly enough for some.
		
Click to expand...

why on earth would BR leave a club which is clearly progressing forward and streets ahead of Arsenal on the pitch ? To go to Arsenal ? You said the same thing about Vardy when he turned you down as well - itâ€™s not enough to just call yourself a big club - have to act like one as well both on and off the pitch


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 8, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			It will be most likely be Brendan Rodgers. The club have already started to sound him out.

*Arsenal are obviously a much bigger club than Leicester *and he would be a fool to turn it down but you never know in football.

My preference is give Emery more time and tee BR up to replace him in 1-2 years if no improvement. I stress that Emery can still turn this around and itâ€™s work in progress, just not happening quickly enough for some.
		
Click to expand...

Bigger but not necessarily more attractive. Leciester are in a good position right now and if I was his agent I would tell him to stay put. Leicester are a well run club, the owners have deep pockets. He can probably achieve more with Leicester in the next 1-3 years than he could with Arsenal so why move?


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seriously sean ? Itâ€™s called progress and moving forward to give the club the ability to challenge and right now they are - every season is a step forward , a identity has been rebuilt , foundations for the future , we have gone from struggling to get into top 6 to winning the CL and challenging for the Title

Can you see any progress from Emery ? Can you see what identify he is trying to create for the team ? Can you see the plan ?

why on earth would BR leave a club which is clearly progressing forward and streets ahead of Arsenal on the pitch ? To go to Arsenal ? You said the same thing about Vardy when he turned you down as well - itâ€™s not enough to just call yourself a big club - have to act like one as well both on and off the pitch
		
Click to expand...

Yes and Vardy has probably regretted it every day since.

Iâ€™m sure heâ€™s already looking forward to telling his grandchildren  that he used to play for Leicester but he had a chance to join Arsenal but turned it down. ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Wolf (Nov 8, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Yes and Vardy has probably regretted it every day since.

Iâ€™m sure heâ€™s already looking forward to telling his grandchildren  that he used to play for Leicester but he had a chance to join Arsenal but turned it down. ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Or alternatively he could tell his grandkids that whilst he turned down that big club arsenal he was leading scorer on a team that beat them to the Premier league title and was still playing in a team above them in the league...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 8, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Yes and Vardy has probably regretted it every day since.

Iâ€™m sure heâ€™s already looking forward to telling his grandchildren  that he used to play for Leicester but he had a chance to join Arsenal but turned it down. ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

I donâ€™t see Vardy regretting it one single bit - he will tell his grandkids that he won the Prem league , will be playing CL football - things that he wonâ€™t get at Arsenal


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 8, 2019)

â¹


sawtooth said:



			Yes and Vardy has probably regretted it every day since.

Iâ€™m sure heâ€™s already looking forward to telling his grandchildren  that he used to play for Leicester but he had a chance to join Arsenal but turned it down. ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

I trust that your use of an emoji signifies you are joking.

If not then you really do have problems .


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 8, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Bigger but not necessarily more attractive. Leciester are in a good position right now and if I was his agent I would tell him to stay put. Leicester are a well run club, the owners have deep pockets. He can probably achieve more with Leicester in the next 1-3 years than he could with Arsenal so why move?
		
Click to expand...

Because Arsenal is Arsenal and Leicester is Leicester.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 8, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Yes and Vardy has probably regretted it every day since.

Iâ€™m sure heâ€™s already looking forward to telling his grandchildren  that he used to play for Leicester but he had a chance to join Arsenal but turned it down. ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

You do know he won the league with Leicester? That hasn't passed you by has it? Arsenal last won it in 2003/4 I believe. I'm sure he will get great joy in showing them his PL winners medal rather than a red and white shirt.

Vardy is a Leicester legend, will always be now, and has a better chance of winning silverware this year in blue than he would have in red. If you think his grandkids would believe he has missed a trick by not going to arsenal then you are seriously off track.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 8, 2019)

Don't think Vardy regrets it for a second. PL Champion and CL football. Not sure what he'd get even now at Arsenal. I think the only regret he has at the moment is not being part of the England set-up, especially with his record this season and his decision to effectively retire (although Southgate insists the door is still open) to play the best he can for Leicester


----------



## fundy (Nov 8, 2019)

#FeedtheTroll
#FundyOut
#EmeryOut


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 8, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Because Arsenal is Arsenal and Leicester is Leicester.
		
Click to expand...

That meant something 20 years ago, it doesn't now.

I'm pleased all other Arsenal fans are not taking the hump with the replies being given here. No pop at Arsenal, you are all clearly aware of the issues you have. I speak as an Everton fan whose club has its own problems right now and has for a while. Having your eyes open to the faults of your club is something you need to have.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 8, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You do know he won the league with Leicester? That hasn't passed you by has it? Arsenal last won it in 2003/4 I believe. I'm sure he will get great joy in showing them his PL winners medal rather than a red and white shirt.

Vardy is a Leicester legend, will always be now, and has a better chance of winning silverware this year in blue than he would have in red. If you think his grandkids would believe he has missed a trick by not going to arsenal then you are seriously off track.
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™m sure that after he explains to his grandkids who Leicester are and that they once played top flight football then they will think itâ€™s pretty cool. ðŸ‘


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 8, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Wait, you pu


Iâ€™m sure that after he explains to his grandkids who Leicester are and that they once played top flight football then they will think itâ€™s pretty cool. ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

I think they will like his PL winners medal, his time in the CL. They will also like how the fans in Leicester see him, not just another Jonny come lately who cleared off at the first chance. I doubt he spends a single second of any day thinking about turning Arsenal down, he really wont.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 8, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That meant something 20 years ago, it doesn't now.

I'm pleased all other Arsenal fans are not taking the hump with the replies being given here. No pop at Arsenal, you are all clearly aware of the issues you have. I speak as an Everton fan whose club has its own problems right now and has for a while. Having your eyes open to the faults of your club is something you need to have.
		
Click to expand...

FWIW  Everton is a bigger club than Leicester too , a flash in a pan season wonâ€™t change that. 

Although that might also be lost on you too.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 8, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think they will like his PL winners medal, his time in the CL. They will also like how the fans in Leicester see him, not just another Jonny come lately who cleared off at the first chance. I doubt he spends a single second of any day thinking about turning Arsenal down, he really wont.
		
Click to expand...

He really will.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 8, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			FWIW  Everton is a bigger club than Leicester too , a flash in a pan season wonâ€™t change that.

Although that might also be lost on you too.
		
Click to expand...

Ha ha. I don't live in the past, I don't spend my time looking at re runs of our glory years in the 80's. Leicester right now are where we want to be, they are ahead of us. Trying to pretend otherwise is kidding yourself.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 8, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			He really will.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone can help you. I tried and failed.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 8, 2019)

Reading this re arsenal and the defence of arsenal and i honestly don't know if it is some of the finest Trolling on here for an age. or someone has opened the wine early.

That said, i was watching the capital cup from 2014 on telly the other night. City v Sunderland. Look were sunderland are now. Look at were some of the other big name clubs are now. Time has no respect of a clubs name. It is a toss up who is going backwards quicker, Utd or Arsenal. Not only that, both clubs fans have been used to seeing world class players playing world class football. Currently they are watching world class rammel.
But back to arsenal. "Vardy wishes he had gone to Arsenal". Really, al bet Maguire is glad he has gone to Utd.
My three fave Prem title winning teams, Citys first V QPR, Citys title when we overcame a massive Liverpool team and leicesters. They battered us that season and more than deserved it. It gave hope to small teams. Vardy was part of that team.
Arsenal are going backwards, as have every other team in England at some point in its existence. Thats fact, not opinion.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 8, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't think anyone can help you. I tried and failed.
		
Click to expand...

My Dadâ€™s bigger than your Dad.


----------



## Wolf (Nov 8, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			My Dadâ€™s bigger than your Dad.

Click to expand...

No he's not mines bigger than yours ðŸ˜‚

Some of our fans are clearly deluded with where we're at, the majority of us would bite someone's hand off to be in the shape Leicester are at the moment with good football and good prospects of champions league football, instead we have to hope to try even keep a  clean sheet, csnt see us getting much out of the game tomorrow, right now I'd be more than happy with a a draw at Leicester.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 8, 2019)

Wolf said:



			No he's not mines bigger than yours ðŸ˜‚

Some of our fans are clearly deluded with where we're at, the majority of us would bite someone's hand off to be in the shape Leicester are at the moment with good football and good prospects of champions league football, instead we have to hope to try even keep a  clean sheet, csnt see us getting much out of the game tomorrow, right now I'd be more than happy with a a draw at Leicester.
		
Click to expand...

Try feeling like that since 1995!
Itâ€™s all relevant, lots of PL Clubs are big Clubs, but then there are successful big Clubs and struggling big Clubs.
Soton last home PL game stuffed 9-0, 
us tomorrow Iâ€™ll take a point.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 8, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ha ha. I don't live in the past, I don't spend my time looking at re runs of our glory years in the 80's. Leicester right now are where we want to be, they are ahead of us. Trying to pretend otherwise is kidding yourself.
		
Click to expand...

Right now Leicester are where Arsenal would want to be, so I wouldn't worry about it.
You have to laugh when anyone  lauds Wenger, the man who saddled them with the wages of Sanchez and Ozil and allowed Ramsey to run his contract down and leave.


----------



## fundy (Nov 8, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Right now Leicester are where Arsenal would want to be, so I wouldn't worry about it.
You have to laugh when anyone  lauds Wenger, the man who saddled them with the wages of Sanchez and Ozil and allowed Ramsey to run his contract down and leave.
		
Click to expand...

Disagree re lauding Wenger, I will happily do so. Dont forget he also gave us 3 League titles, 7 FA Cups, 2 Doubles and the invincibles! Yes he went on too long but a huge dose of recency bias to only assess what he gave Arsenal and its fans for the majority of his time at the club. I for one am eternally grateful for what he brought to the club and the great times and success he gave us at a time when I was a season ticket holder, especially considering the state we were in when he did arrive!

If you want to laugh at me for lauding a manager with that record, crack on


----------



## fundy (Nov 8, 2019)

Great perspective of this weeks game

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...satisfaction-standings-fixtures-a9194511.html


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 8, 2019)

fundy said:



			Disagree re lauding Wenger, I will happily do so. Dont forget he also gave us 3 League titles, 7 FA Cups, 2 Doubles and the invincibles! Yes he went on too long but a huge dose of recency bias to only assess what he gave Arsenal and its fans for the majority of his time at the club. I for one am eternally grateful for what he brought to the club and the great times and success he gave us at a time when I was a season ticket holder, especially considering the state we were in when he did arrive!

If you want to laugh at me for lauding a manager with that record, crack on
		
Click to expand...

Undoubtably one of the greatest managers English football has seen.
If there is any criticism itâ€™s possibly that he stayed on a bit too long.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 8, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Undoubtably one of the greatest managers English football has seen.
If there is any criticism itâ€™s possibly that he stayed on a bit too long.
		
Click to expand...

When fans of your rivals are hoping your manager stays then you know they overstayed their time. A very fine manager but undoubtedly, imo, damaged his legacy by staying too long.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 8, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			yeah but it took Klopp 3 years to win something at Liverpool and he still hasnâ€™t won anything domestically.

2nd, 3rd, 4th in the league is that really what you call success? I think not.
		
Click to expand...

Well you always mentioned the "money clubs" being the reason that Arsenal didnt win the league more. Was that with points totals of 70-odd, 80-odd max.

We are fighting with the most expensively assembled team in world football, and also had 97 points, so if you want to compare "2nd places" as similar, go for it.

Arsene also had, was it 18+goes in the CL and never won it.

Winning?????


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 8, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Right now Leicester are where Arsenal would want to be, so I wouldn't worry about it.
You have to laugh when anyone  lauds Wenger, the man who saddled them with the wages of Sanchez and Ozil and allowed Ramsey to run his contract down and leave.
		
Click to expand...

Despite Wenger prob staying on a couple years too long - his record is still impressive , a couple of doubles ,3 titles a good number of FA Cups - he will go down as Arsenal best manager


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 8, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			My Dadâ€™s bigger than your Dad.

Click to expand...

yeah but does he have a dog.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Despite Wenger prob staying on a couple years too long - his record is still impressive , a couple of doubles ,3 titles a good number of FA Cups - he will go down as Arsenal best manager
		
Click to expand...

And the invincibles. Doubt that will happen again anytime soon


----------



## Slime (Nov 8, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And the invincibles. *Doubt that will happen again anytime soon*

Click to expand...

It could never happen again ................................. we have VAR.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 8, 2019)

fundy said:



			describe one of our current midfielders roles? (and i dont mean water carrying for Ozil  )  they dont appear to have a clue what position they play or what theyre role is
		
Click to expand...

I just think of Mike Reid in the 1970's kids programme "runaround", although probably more of an amble.


----------



## Fish (Nov 9, 2019)

With all the bad weather and courses closed, this thread makes me chuckle in the mornings, so much so Iâ€™ve cancelled my Beano ðŸ˜œðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 9, 2019)

Deserve to be 2-0 down by sounds 

However what is point of VAR ? First goal came from a corner that never was.. quick check would rule that out wouldn't it?


----------



## Fish (Nov 9, 2019)

Sheffield United substantiating why theyâ€™re 6 places above Spurs, theyâ€™ve had more overall shots and 100% more shots on target away at the lane. 

Has Christmas come early ðŸ¤”ðŸ˜œðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 9, 2019)

Fish said:



			Sheffield United substantiating why theyâ€™re 6 places above Spurs, theyâ€™ve had more overall shots and 100% more shots on target away at the lane. 

Has Christmas come early ðŸ¤”ðŸ˜œðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Afternoon Homer ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## fundy (Nov 9, 2019)

over 3 mins for a goal to be ridulously disallowed for offside by VAR at spurs lol


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 9, 2019)

fundy said:



			over 3 mins for a goal to be ridulously disallowed for offside by VAR at spurs lol
		
Click to expand...

If you can't decide within 30 seconds then it's not clear


----------



## fundy (Nov 9, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			If you can't decide within 30 seconds then it's not clear
		
Click to expand...

took them 3 mins 47 seconds to guess on all accounts, ridiculous decision the result too


----------



## Fish (Nov 9, 2019)

fundy said:



			took them 3 mins 47 seconds to guess on all accounts, ridiculous decision the result too
		
Click to expand...

Big toe, ffs itâ€™s getting ridiculous! Thankfully theyâ€™ve scored again, but Iâ€™m sure theyâ€™ll feel robbed.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2019)

fundy said:



			over 3 mins for a goal to be ridulously disallowed for offside by VAR at spurs lol
		
Click to expand...




ðŸ˜¡


----------



## fundy (Nov 9, 2019)

and thats with them guessing which frame to stop it on for when the foot is actually in contact with the ball, each frame can be worth another 20 cms lol. Good guess VAR good guess


----------



## Fish (Nov 9, 2019)

Fish said:



			Sheffield United substantiating why theyâ€™re 6 places above Spurs, theyâ€™ve had more overall shots and 100% more shots on target away at the lane.

Has Christmas come early ðŸ¤”ðŸ˜œðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Make that 7 places ðŸ˜œ


----------



## Fish (Nov 9, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 28534

ðŸ˜¡
		
Click to expand...

This is sterilising the game beyond comprehension, I thought VAR was only for clear & obvious errors or things that the officials may have missed, this is crazy when you can alylise it so much that you can give a big toe offside, itâ€™s potentially manipulating results imo.


----------



## dronfield (Nov 9, 2019)

Fish said:



			Big toe, ffs itâ€™s getting ridiculous! Thankfully theyâ€™ve scored again, but Iâ€™m sure theyâ€™ll feel robbed.
		
Click to expand...

Just listened to commentary on Radio Sheffield, sounds like a draw was the minimum thd Blades deserved. Continues our good start to the season.


----------



## Fish (Nov 9, 2019)

Pellergrini will be gone in the morning I think, he might be sharing a cab with the Saints manager also ðŸ¤”


----------



## fundy (Nov 9, 2019)

Fish said:



			Pellergrini will be gone in the morning I think, he might be sharing a cab with the Saints manager also ðŸ¤”
		
Click to expand...


room for 1 more in the taxi?


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 9, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 28534

ðŸ˜¡
		
Click to expand...

What advantage has he gained? What  Offside was brought in to stop. Pathetic.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 9, 2019)

Fish said:



			Pellergrini will be gone in the morning I think, he might be sharing a cab with the Saints manager also ðŸ¤”
		
Click to expand...

I don't think they will pay up his contract tbh 

Take Roberto with him please 

How the 3rd choice keeper hasn't had a game is remarkable


----------



## Fish (Nov 9, 2019)

fundy said:



			room for 1 more in the taxi?  

Click to expand...

Not sure a back 3 with Luiz in it is the answer, I can see Luiz giving away a penalty as Vardy will run rings around him, Emery clearly trying something different but I think Leicester are the form team and if they score first and early, I can honestly see them running riot at the Emirates ðŸ¤”


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 9, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 28534

ðŸ˜¡
		
Click to expand...

I donâ€™t understand why the blue line has been taken from his knee when his head and shoulder are clearly in front of his knee.
Abysmal.


----------



## dronfield (Nov 9, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			What advantage has he gained? What  Offside was brought in to stop. Pathetic.
		
Click to expand...

Agree 100%, disgraceful decision that shows perfectly what VAR is doing to the game. Surely we brought VAR in to remove howlers or clear infringements, not situations where no advantage was gained?


----------



## fundy (Nov 9, 2019)

Fish said:



			Not sure a back 3 with Luiz in it is the answer, I can see Luiz giving away a penalty as Vardy will run rings around him, Emery clearly trying something different but I think Leicester are the form team and if they score first and early, I can honestly see them running riot at the Emirates ðŸ¤”
		
Click to expand...

its at Leicester not the Emirates

as for the formation, he guesses a new one every game lol


----------



## Fish (Nov 9, 2019)

fundy said:



			its at Leicester not the Emirates

as for the formation, he guesses a new one every game lol
		
Click to expand...

Not sure why I thought it was in North London, ok Iâ€™ll revisit my assessment, itâ€™s a given, Arsenal are in for a stuffing ðŸ˜œ


----------



## TheDiablo (Nov 9, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			I don't think they will pay up his contract tbh 

Take Roberto with him please 

How the 3rd choice keeper hasn't had a game is remarkable
		
Click to expand...

You've turned quickly. Best thing since sliced bread a few weeks ago.


----------



## Imurg (Nov 9, 2019)

As I've said before, I stopped really following football when the diving and cheating got too much.
Seeing clips on Twitter and on here of what VAR is doing to the game makes me glad I don't get excited by it anymore.
I'd be tearing out what little hair I have left.
As it is I sit here chuckling, wondering what football will do next to completely destroy itself....


----------



## fundy (Nov 9, 2019)

Fish said:



			Not sure why I thought it was in North London, ok Iâ€™ll revisit my assessment, itâ€™s a given, Arsenal are in for a stuffing ðŸ˜œ
		
Click to expand...

Leicester been backed off the boards last few days, most people to seem thats whats going to happen and it will unless the front 3 bail us out (which is always a chance)


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 9, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			You've turned quickly. Best thing since sliced bread a few weeks ago.
		
Click to expand...

Didn't say I wanted MP gone, I'm starting to question his decisions recently 

I'm stating a fact, that the board don't pay out if they can avoid it


----------



## Fish (Nov 9, 2019)

fundy said:



			Leicester been backed off the boards last few days, most people to seem thats whats going to happen and it will unless the front 3 bail us out (which is always a chance)
		
Click to expand...

Depends which Ozil turns up and if he creates and the front 3 get decent service, if itâ€™s business as usual it could be a mauling ðŸ¤”


----------



## fundy (Nov 9, 2019)

Fish said:



			Depends which Ozil turns up and if he creates and the front 3 get decent service, if itâ€™s business as usual it could be a mauling ðŸ¤”
		
Click to expand...

hes one of the front 3 today (as were playing 5 at the back), he should at least be free to roam but not gonna get that much support, big danger we get overrun in midfield


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 9, 2019)

Holding and Bellerin starting in the league together for the first time this season.ðŸ‘

I hope that we will put in a performance today that will silence a few naysayers.


----------



## Fish (Nov 9, 2019)

fundy said:



			hes one of the front 3 today (as were playing 5 at the back), he should at least be free to roam but not gonna get that much support, big danger we get overrun in midfield
		
Click to expand...

Havenâ€™t seen the set up, sounds brave away from home against an in form team, as you say, the midfield could be key and knowing how quick Leicester can counter, itâ€™s set up to be a lively start!


----------



## fundy (Nov 9, 2019)

brainless from Doozi


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 9, 2019)

Wow!

Howâ€™s that not a pen!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 9, 2019)

Var really thatâ€™s a pen and booking.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 9, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Holding and Bellerin starting in the league together for the first time this season.ðŸ‘

I hope that we will put in a performance today that will silence a few naysayers.
		
Click to expand...

Was that a dive or stupidity from Guen dozy?


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 9, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Wow!

Howâ€™s that not a pen!
		
Click to expand...

Most blatant pen you will ever likely see.

Old pals in stockley park just donâ€™t want to overrule the refs.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 9, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Was that a dive or stupidity from Guen dozy?
		
Click to expand...

A dive? When?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 9, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			A dive? When?[/QUO
		
Click to expand...

Guendouzi he is a liability Emery should ban him from his own penalty area.

I think they will say he wasnâ€™t getting the ball.
But that doesn't matter.


----------



## fundy (Nov 9, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Guendouzi he is a liability Emery should ban him from his own penalty area.
		
Click to expand...


plenty of potential but has needed pulling to oneside on that sort of stupidity for while, hard to do when Xhaka was the example setter!


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 9, 2019)

Yeah and France should stop picking him as well. ðŸ˜—

Both managers must be clowns eh?


----------



## Imurg (Nov 9, 2019)




----------



## fundy (Nov 9, 2019)

Imurg said:





Click to expand...


hard to argue with that sort of logic


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah and France should stop picking him as well. ðŸ˜—

Both managers must be clowns eh?
		
Click to expand...

Has he actually got on the pitch for France yet beyond the U21 ?

Donâ€™t think it will be long until Leicester score - dominating them at the moment but every now and then Arsenal break and look like they could sneak one


----------



## Fish (Nov 9, 2019)

Theyâ€™re knocking on the door ðŸ‘€


----------



## Dando (Nov 9, 2019)

Imurg said:





Click to expand...

well said


----------



## paddyc (Nov 9, 2019)

well we havent conceded.....yet. when are we going to realise that we cannot play out from the back  teams just press high up because they know we will give the ball away. sometimes just hit the channels in behind the full backs and use our pace and get the ball in there half.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 9, 2019)

VAR is being used all over Europe.and only us seem to feck it up.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 9, 2019)

Too easy for Leicester that.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2019)

Looks like Vardy has got over regretting staying at Leicester 


Some of their football has been great to watch and it was only a matter of time.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 9, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Too easy for Leicester that.
		
Click to expand...

Fortunate.


----------



## Fish (Nov 9, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Fortunate.
		
Click to expand...

erm no, you're fortunate they werenâ€™t awarded a pen, they hit the bar and if theyâ€™d been their normal clinical selves, theyâ€™d be 3 or 4-nil up, just the one up might give you some hope, but I think youâ€™ve got 2 hopes, and one of them is Bob ðŸ˜œ


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Fortunate.
		
Click to expand...

What was fortunate about it ?


----------



## fundy (Nov 9, 2019)

any chance of Pepe at 1-0 down and play one of our 2 strikers down the middle plse


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 9, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Fortunate.
		
Click to expand...

I thought it was shocking defending myself but there you go.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 9, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What was fortunate about it ?
		
Click to expand...

Tielemans cross went through Torieras legs lol.


----------



## fundy (Nov 9, 2019)

#EmeryOut


----------



## Fish (Nov 9, 2019)

Luiz went for Vardy then, saw him and fouled him, no effort for the ball at all ðŸ˜¡


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Tielemans cross went through Torieras legs lol.
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s not being fortunate - Leicester a good distance ahead of Arsenal


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 9, 2019)

Cracking goal. That Maddison is a cracking player, greedy but talented. 

Looking forward to FamTV in a bitðŸ˜


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 9, 2019)

Another lucky nutmeg.

When your luck is out....


----------



## Fish (Nov 9, 2019)

Boom, ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## fundy (Nov 9, 2019)

Fish said:



			Luiz went for Vardy then, saw him and fouled him, no effort for the ball at all ðŸ˜¡
		
Click to expand...


learnt it all at Chelsea


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 9, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Thatâ€™s not being fortunate - Leicester a good distance ahead of Arsenal
		
Click to expand...

Did you think he meant it lol?


----------



## Fish (Nov 9, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Another lucky nutmeg.

When your luck is out....
		
Click to expand...

nothing lucky about that, he looked up, toe poked it to keep it low, it was a very well taken goal.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 9, 2019)

Fish said:



			nothing lucky about that, he looked up, toe poked it to keep it low, it was a very well taken goal.
		
Click to expand...

I beg to differ, unintentional nutmeg.


----------



## Dan2501 (Nov 9, 2019)

Love watching this Leicester team, so good to watch. Building an excellent team. The midfield of Ndidi, Tielemans and Maddison is superb, Soyuncu has been an excellent signing, Pereira is one of the best attacking RBs in the league and if you get the ball into Vardy he's going to score goals. Rodgers has them playing some lovely football, solid at the back and so dynamic going forward.

Less said about Arsenal the better. Emery can't have long left.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Did you think he meant it lol?
		
Click to expand...

He meant to cross it and put in the danger area and it was a quality finish. Pretty big difference in class tonight. Another 3 or 4 wouldnâ€™t flatter Leicester


----------



## Dan2501 (Nov 9, 2019)

Arsenal seem to have just given up now. No backbone, no fight, no creativity, it's like Wenger never left.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 9, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 28534

ðŸ˜¡
		
Click to expand...

That's onside. Don't even care that it's against us - that is level. This is beyond a joke. Absolutely stupid.


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 9, 2019)

Another quality performance from Leicester! 

I didnâ€™t see the Chelsea game, but itâ€™s great to see 2 exciting young teams keeping Liverpool and Man City on their toes.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 9, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Arsenal seem to have just given up now. No backbone, no fight, no creativity, it's like Wenger never left.
		
Click to expand...

Give Leicester some credit they are a solid side.

In the end 2 goals in it both with a bit of fortune to them.

Arsenal had their chances too and on another day would have made Leicester pay.


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 9, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Give Leicester some credit they are a solid side.

In the end 2 goals in it both with a bit of fortune to them.

Arsenal had their chances too and on another day would have made Leicester pay.
		
Click to expand...

Letâ€™s give Leicester a lot of credit, which they truly deserve. They have played Arsenal off the park tonight.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 9, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Give Leicester some credit they are a solid side.

In the end 2 goals in it both with a bit of fortune to them.

Arsenal had their chances too and on another day would have made Leicester pay.
		
Click to expand...

With the back three Arsenal fielded today they were always likely to  concede

Chambers and Holding may become  reasonable defenders but both still have so much to learn. Luiz remains an enigma, capable of both brilliance and utter rubbish.


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 9, 2019)

I am glad I didn't watch it. It's just so frustrating.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 9, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			That's onside. Don't even care that it's against us - that is level. This is beyond a joke. Absolutely stupid.
		
Click to expand...

I think most sensible football fans and managers accept that type of decision if its given in real time by a liner,  it's the ones like Milner at West Ham last season that VAR should only be looking at.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Give Leicester some credit they are a solid side.

In the end 2 goals in it both with a bit of fortune to them.

Arsenal had their chances too and on another day would have made Leicester pay.
		
Click to expand...

Come on letâ€™s be honest Leicester fully deserved that win - they were the better team all over the park and it should have been 3 or 4 - clear gulf between the two teams.

You could see that one team has a clear plan and identity and one all over the place - still think itâ€™s incredible that you believe BR would move to Arsenal from Leicester


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 9, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I think most sensible football fans and managers accept that type of decision if its given in real time by a liner,  it's the ones like Milner at West Ham last season that VAR should only be looking at.
		
Click to expand...

You canâ€™t pick and choose mate, scrap it until the technology improves or change how itâ€™s used, ie 3 appeals per team.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 9, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			You canâ€™t pick and choose mate, scrap it until the technology improves or change how itâ€™s used, ie 3 appeals per team.

Click to expand...

Piss off, won a game have yers ðŸ˜


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 9, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Piss off, won a game have yers ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Can you edit your language please or have you not learned your lesson.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 9, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Can you edit your language please or have you not learned your lesson.

Click to expand...

Snitch ðŸ˜


----------



## Fish (Nov 9, 2019)

8 point gap, possibly more after tomorrow, is a gap I canâ€™t see Arsenal clawing back after watching that, theyâ€™re losing touch and will soon not be able to put any pressure on 4th place, especially with Leicester & Chelsea both improving game by game and City & Liverpool clearly have an slight edge on them.

I think the top 4 will increase that gap over the coming weeks and theyâ€™ll be a tight group underneath that could see Sheffield, Bournemouth and even Brighton if they perform at OT tomorrow scrapping it out with Arsenal to fight for 5th, either that or theyâ€™ll slip even further down which could force the boards hand, but for that to happen itâ€™s got to get even worse before it gets better.

Only 1 Arsenal fan in denial, all the rest know there are issues, and Emery is not the manager to sort them out.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 9, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What was fortunate about it ?
		
Click to expand...

It was fortunate for Arsenal that the goal only made it 1-0 rather than the 2-0 or 3-0 that it could/should have been by that point.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 9, 2019)

Fish said:



			8 point gap, possibly more after tomorrow, is a gap I canâ€™t see Arsenal clawing back after watching that, theyâ€™re losing touch and will soon not be able to put any pressure on 4th place, especially with Leicester & Chelsea both improving game by game and City & Liverpool clearly have an slight edge on them.

I think the top 4 will increase that gap over the coming weeks and theyâ€™ll be a tight group underneath that could see Sheffield, Bournemouth and even Brighton if they perform at OT tomorrow scrapping it out with Arsenal to fight for 5th, either that or theyâ€™ll slip even further down which could force the boards hand, but for that to happen itâ€™s got to get even worse before it gets better.

Only 1 Arsenal fan in denial, all the rest know theyâ€™re are issues, and Emery is not the manager to sort them out.
		
Click to expand...

Of course there are issues I have never denied that. I just think that the coach needs to be given the time to sort it out.

BR for example has the benefit of having managed in the PL for years, Emery is new to the PL and English football and itâ€™s a learning curve.


----------



## Fish (Nov 9, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Of course there are issues I have never denied that. I just think that the coach needs to be given the time to sort it out.

BR for example has the benefit of having managed in the PL for years, Emery is new to the PL and English football and itâ€™s a learning curve.
		
Click to expand...

so how much longer are you prepared to give him, and how much leeway will you accept in the position he finishes in the league? Is Europa a minimum expectancy, what if you keep dropping points and that starts to look unachievable?


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 9, 2019)

Trending towards relegation.


----------



## Wolf (Nov 9, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Of course there are issues I have never denied that. I just think that the coach needs to be given the time to sort it out.

BR for example has the benefit of having managed in the PL for years, Emery is new to the PL and English football and itâ€™s a learning curve.
		
Click to expand...

He doesn't deserve any time, he's had 18 mths and still can't fathom what formation he should be playing. Leicester weren't lucky at all tonight they were far superior all over the pitch to us, the gap is increasing and way we're playing we'll be lucky to finish in a  Europa spot.

There will be no shame in the board cutting losses during the Int break, and bringing in someone new to get changes made and faith in the dressing room. There are some good players in our squad that a competent coach can develop and work with, the same players under Emery look clueless and poor because they don't know what the manager wants because he doesn't know what he wants..


----------



## richart (Nov 9, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Trending towards relegation.
		
Click to expand...

Good news though. No VAR in the championship.


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 9, 2019)

That is 6 wins from our last 18 games. Shocking performance there.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 9, 2019)

Wolf said:



			The doesn't deserve any time, he's had 18 mths and still can't fathom what formation he should be playing. Leicester weren't lucky at all tonight they were far superior all over the pitch to us, the gap is increasing and way we're playing we'll be lucky to finish in a  Europa spot.

There will be no shame in the board cutting losses during the Int break, and bringing in someone new to get changes made and faith in the dressing room. There are some good players in our squad that a competent coach can develop and work with, the same players under Emery look clueless and poor because they don't k ow what the manager wants because he doesn't know what he wants..
		
Click to expand...

This. There was a lack of idea and cohesion all around the team and once they went 1-0 down there seemed to be no conviction that they could get a goal back. In the end it could have been far worse and I definitely feel 18 months is more than enough time to make a mark on the team and impose your ideas and methods. Sadly it seems the players are either unable or unwilling to do so. I agree that Europa League is by no means a given next season and a position of 8th or lower on current form wouldn't be a surprise


----------



## Wolf (Nov 9, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			That is 6 wins from our last 18 games. Shocking performance there.
		
Click to expand...

It's also 1 win in our last 6 games....


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 9, 2019)

I thought Gunners played ok until they scored .
Then they just seemed to accept they were beaten .
Forward weâ€™re ok but the rest were all over the place.

Identical foul on Maddison as the pen ref blows even though he had a clear advantage.
Officials 1/10 for me .


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 9, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah and France should stop picking him as well. ðŸ˜—

Both managers must be clowns eh?
		
Click to expand...

That just shows France must be struggling for midfielders.
Would he really get in the team???


----------



## fundy (Nov 9, 2019)

If you were Brendan Rogers how many of that Arsenal XI would you want in your Leicester side? Maybe find room for Aubameyang and play 2 up top and room for a few on the bench. As that current Arsenal side sets up is such a sad reflection, as there are some decent players in there (going forward at least)


----------



## Hobbit (Nov 9, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			That is 6 wins from our last 18 games. Shocking performance there.
		
Click to expand...

And 3 more wins before Jan 1st??


----------



## Wolf (Nov 9, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			This. There was a lack of idea and cohesion all around the team and once they went 1-0 down there seemed to be no conviction that they could get a goal back. In the end it could have been far worse and I definitely feel 18 months is more than enough time to make a mark on the team and impose your ideas and methods. *Sadly it seems the players are either unable or unwilling to do so*. I agree that Europa League is by no means a given next season and a position of 8th or lower on current form wouldn't be a surprise
		
Click to expand...

Agreed Homer 18mths is enough time to at least understand your squad, know your best XI and formation as a minimum. 

That part in bold is key, I think a lot is they have lost the desire to play for the manager, whether that's professional or not is another matter. But reports are that players are unhappy with his tactics, his methods and don't believe he is skilled enough to get them progress. Similar has been said about his time at PSG.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 9, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Agreed Homer 18mths is enough time to at least understand your squad, know your best XI and formation as a minimum.

That part in bold is key, I think a lot is they have lost the desire to play for the manager, whether that's professional or not is another matter. But reports are that players are unhappy with his tactics, his methods and don't believe he is skilled enough to get them progress. Similar has been said about his time at PSG.
		
Click to expand...

Whether you think it's unprofessional or even he's lost the changing room, 18 months is still plenty of time and the players simply haven't bought into it or cannot carry out his instructions. Where does that leave the club other than losing regularly and losing touch with the sides above and looking an average side. They have some good players there but they remind me of United under LVG when they simply didn't seem bothered. Are the board brave enough to curt their losses? Is now the time with the international break and give someone a chance to come in and get settled before the window opens in January


----------



## Paperboy (Nov 9, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Trending towards relegation.
		
Click to expand...

Your only 9 points above relegation


----------



## Wolf (Nov 9, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Whether you think it's unprofessional or even he's lost the changing room, 18 months is still plenty of time and the players simply haven't bought into it or cannot carry out his instructions. Where does that leave the club other than losing regularly and losing touch with the sides above and looking an average side. They have some good players there but they remind me of United under LVG when they simply didn't seem bothered. Are the board brave enough to curt their losses? Is now the time with the international break and give someone a chance to come in and get settled before the window opens in January
		
Click to expand...

The International break is ideal time, however what we don't need is a panic replacement. Someone like Mourinho just because they're available doesn't make them the right person for the job, they need to appoint someone fresh that cane work with what we have, with the youth systems and get the players to believe in them. Much like Lamoard has done at Chelsea already.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 9, 2019)

Wolf said:



			The International break is ideal time, however what we don't need is a panic replacement. Someone like Mourinho just because they're available doesn't make them the right person for the job, they need to appoint someone fresh that cane work with what we have, with the youth systems and get the players to believe in them. Much like Lamoard has done at Chelsea already.
		
Click to expand...

Think Lampard is doing an excellent job and agree that a Mourniho could be equally as divisive. It seems to me, that he has gone as far as he's likely to with the team but does the board have the balls to make a change


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 9, 2019)

The rumour going the rounds is the board haven't sacked him as they do not have a succession plan. He was a panick appointment because they were clueless last time, and 18 months on, they remain clueless.


----------



## fundy (Nov 9, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			The rumour going the rounds is the board haven't sacked him as they do not have a succession plan. He was a panick appointment because they were clueless last time, and 18 months on, they remain clueless.
		
Click to expand...


get rid, give Freddie the reigns short term and get to work, how hard is it


----------



## Norrin Radd (Nov 9, 2019)

Chris Houghton is available and we could go back to boring boring arsenal 1-0 and shut up shop.


----------



## pendodave (Nov 10, 2019)

That first Newcastle goal!


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 10, 2019)

Fish said:



			so how much longer are you prepared to give him, and how much leeway will you accept in the position he finishes in the league? Is Europa a minimum expectancy, what if you keep dropping points and that starts to look unachievable?
		
Click to expand...

The way I see it is that Emery is still finding his way, trying to get a team and formation together that works with what he has at his disposal. Hampered a bit by players that he hasnâ€™t been able to select for various reasons. Also I expect him to bring in more of his â€œownâ€ players in time and that will also be a massive help to him.

With all that in mind I expect that sooner rather than later his team will click and we will see an upturn in performances and results.

If we finish this season strong with very positive signs that we are heading in the right direction then we must keep Emery regardless if we just miss out on top 4 or even the Europa league.

January is going to be a big window and Arsenal career defining for him.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 10, 2019)

pendodave said:



			That first Newcastle goal!
		
Click to expand...

A proper old school header. Loved it ðŸ‘


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 10, 2019)

Richarlason totally different player when he stays on his feet.
The lads got everything he just needs to apply it.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 10, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Richarlason totally different player when he stays on his feet.
The lads got everything he just needs to apply it.
		
Click to expand...

Silva said on motd that he had spoken to him about it so hopefully he has learnt his lesson. He was dreadful for it last Sunday, it made him anaemic on the pitch.


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 10, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			January is going to be a big window and Arsenal career defining for him.
		
Click to expand...

You won't get anything of note in January, bar the odd quick fix. When was the last time you made a decent signing? Sanchez back in 2013? And I mean decent in terms of a world class signing that delivered for a number of years? Auba is fine against fodder but away against the top sides he goes missing and ditto at home, minus the odd penalty.

This is your level, Arsenal aren't a Top 4 team and won't be until theres changes at the very top. 
Liverpool and City are untouchable and will be for a number of years.
Spurs have a better squad, manager, more money and ambition.
Chelsea are progressing nicely and will surely buy big when the ban is over to add the basis of a good young side. 
Leicester have a better manager, side, similar spending power and more ambition.
Man Utd are a total mess but at least have vast spending power, ambition and will at worse be Top 4 in a few years.

What do Arsenal stand for these days? A load of weak minded posers who play some pretty football but go missing whenever they play a better side or one that outworks them? Last night was embarassing. The attitude of the midfield and attack when Arsenal gave the ball away - no fight, chasing back - just let Leicester destroy them on the counter, then play quick football around the defence. It was men v boys.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 10, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			The way I see it is that Emery is still finding his way, trying to get a team and formation together that works with what he has at his disposal. Hampered a bit by players that he hasnâ€™t been able to select for various reasons. Also I expect him to bring in more of his â€œownâ€ players in time and that will also be a massive help to him.

With all that in mind I expect that sooner rather than later his team will click and we will see an upturn in performances and results.

If we finish this season strong with very positive signs that we are heading in the right direction then we must keep Emery regardless if we just miss out on top 4 or even the Europa league.

January is going to be a big window and Arsenal career defining for him.
		
Click to expand...

He has had 18 months to do that already and the club has either gone backwards or stood still -give him too much more time and mid table will be the result. You canâ€™t wait too long now in football


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 10, 2019)

4LEX said:



			You won't get anything of note in January, bar the odd quick fix. When was the last time you made a decent signing? Sanchez back in 2013? And I mean decent in terms of a world class signing that delivered for a number of years? Auba is fine against fodder but away against the top sides he goes missing and ditto at home, minus the odd penalty.

This is your level, Arsenal aren't a Top 4 team and won't be until theres changes at the very top.
Liverpool and City are untouchable and will be for a number of years.
Spurs have a better squad, manager, more money and ambition.
Chelsea are progressing nicely and will surely buy big when the ban is over to add the basis of a good young side.
Leicester have a better manager, side, similar spending power and more ambition.
Man Utd are a total mess but at least have vast spending power, ambition and will at worse be Top 4 in a few years.

What do Arsenal stand for these days? A load of weak minded posers who play some pretty football but go missing whenever they play a better side or one that outworks them? Last night was embarassing. The attitude of the midfield and attack when Arsenal gave the ball away - no fight, chasing back - just let Leicester destroy them on the counter, then play quick football around the defence. It was men v boys.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s also about getting unsettled or unhelpful players out of the club. A chance for Emery to make a statement about who is boss and what he wants and doesnâ€™t want.

There could also be some prearranged moves that we are not privvy to.

Leicester are a good side if you hadnâ€™t noticed , 3rd in league against some very big spenders. City have spent Â£1Bn assembling that squad and Liverpool have made very heavy investments too as they are desperate to win the PL.

So to lose away to Leicester is no disgrace at this point in Emeryâ€™s tenure. I would not be saying this again in another 18mths though, I expect a marked and steady improvement in the second 18mths. 

Bellerin and Holding made us stronger yesterday. Yes they made some individual errors but they are fresh back from nasty injuries and long lay offs. If they can stay fit and get a long run in the side it will be a good for Arsenal.

A fit Pepe and Tierney will strengthen us furthermore.

Emery hasnt has the best of starts but he doesnâ€™t become a bad manager overnight, I have faith and I think the board will have too.

The end of the Wenger era and transition to new manager was a mess  but was somewhat due to fan pressure. I think Arsenal will want to avoid a repeat.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 10, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Itâ€™s also about getting unsettled or unhelpful players out of the club. A chance for Emery to make a statement about who is boss and what he wants and doesnâ€™t want.

There could also be some prearranged moves that we are not privvy to.

Leicester are a good side if you hadnâ€™t noticed , 3rd in league against some very big spenders. City have spent Â£1Bn assembling that squad and Liverpool have made very heavy investments too as they are desperate to win the PL.

So to lose away to Leicester is no disgrace at this point in Emeryâ€™s tenure. I would not be saying this again in another 18mths though, I expect a marked and steady improvement in the second 18mths.

Bellerin and Holding made us stronger yesterday. Yes they made some individual errors but they are fresh back from nasty injuries and long lay offs. If they can stay fit and get a long run in the side it will be a good for Arsenal.

A fit Pepe and Tierney will strengthen us furthermore.

*Emery hasnt has the best of starts but he doesnâ€™t become a bad manager overnight, I have faith and I think the board will have too.*

The end of the Wenger era and transition to new manager was a mess  but was somewhat due to fan pressure. I think Arsenal will want to avoid a repeat.
		
Click to expand...

Or the truth is he just isnâ€™t that great a manager


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or the truth is he just isnâ€™t that great a manager
		
Click to expand...

Or the truth is Wenger left a pish poor squad in favour of protecting his ego?

I've seen it 1st hand at Liverpool over the last 20 odd years.

Ferguson also left a poor squad at Yernited, its took 4 managers and over Â£500m  to try and sort it out.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 10, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Silva said on motd that he had spoken to him about it so hopefully he has learnt his lesson. He was dreadful for it last Sunday, it made him anaemic on the pitch.
		
Click to expand...

He should of had a penalty last week and also as Silva said, heâ€™s never been booked for diving.
Next week the focus will be on someone else as we all know, every team has players that opposition fans believe dive every time.


----------



## Norrin Radd (Nov 10, 2019)

Today is the day that Brighton get vertigo by jumping up to fifth in the league all courtesy of man u getting done one none at old Trafford. 











Well it is called the theatre of dreams


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 10, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Or the truth is Wenger left a pish poor squad in favour of protecting his ego?

I've seen it 1st hand at Liverpool over the last 20 odd years.

Ferguson also left a poor squad at Yernited, its took 4 managers and over Â£500m  to try and sort it out.
		
Click to expand...

I doubt he left a â€œpish poorâ€ squad, he only missed out on top 4 twice in 20 years. 

And with 3 PL titles to his name, ask the Liverpool board how difficult it is to win just one lol.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			I doubt he left a â€œpish poorâ€ squad, he only missed out on top 4 twice in 20 years.

And with 3 PL titles to his name, ask the Liverpool board how difficult it is to win just one lol.
		
Click to expand...

If the squad was as good as you suggest he wouldnt have missed out on top 4. 

Shame you've resorted to petty remarks/ point scoring to try and justify Wengers failings.


----------



## Slime (Nov 10, 2019)

Norrin Radd said:



			Today is the day that Brighton get vertigo by jumping up to fifth in the league all courtesy of man u getting done one none at old Trafford.
Well it is called the theatre of dreams 

Click to expand...


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2019)

Massive game today for the Klopp Express. I expect to see Citys big guns in with the exception of Laporte, Ederson will start today despite all the reports he's out. 

Hopefully the games not ruined by inept refereeing/VAR.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 10, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			He should of had a penalty last week and also as Silva said, heâ€™s never been booked for diving.
Next week the focus will be on someone else as we all know, every team has players that opposition fans believe dive every time.
		
Click to expand...

He hasn't but I'm not quite sure how. If he stands up more he is more likely to get penalties imo. At the moment refs know he goes too easily so are reluctant to give them. A few more games like yesterday and he will bury that reputation.


----------



## Fish (Nov 10, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Massive game today for the Klopp Express. I expect to see Citys big guns in with the exception of Laporte, Ederson will start today despite all the reports he's out.

Hopefully the games not ruined by inept refereeing/VAR.
		
Click to expand...

I think if City absorb the first 20 minutes of pressure that Liverpool will unleash upon them, it will then settle down into a a cagey counter attack match, possibly even a damp squid as each team will be conscious of each otherâ€™s fire power, and be nervous of being caught all up front. 

Iâ€™d prefer a draw or a City win, only because I think Lâ€™pool have been fortunate with some results and ground them out, which I donâ€™t think is sustainable over the full season, especially as the fixtures start to pile up.


----------



## ger147 (Nov 10, 2019)

Norrin Radd said:



			Today is the day that Brighton get vertigo by jumping up to fifth in the league all courtesy of man u getting done one none at old Trafford. 











Well it is called the theatre of dreams 

Click to expand...

Oh dear...


----------



## ger147 (Nov 10, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Massive game today for the Klopp Express. I expect to see Citys big guns in with the exception of Laporte, Ederson will start today despite all the reports he's out. 

Hopefully the games not ruined by inept refereeing/VAR.
		
Click to expand...

Ederson out, Bravo in.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 10, 2019)

Wolves are playing some smashing football right up until they reach the penalty area at which point all confidence and decisiveness disappears. It must be very frustrating being a Wolves fan.

Edit, That is genius timing ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚. Took them long enough.


----------



## Norrin Radd (Nov 10, 2019)

post: 2075457 said:
			
		


			Oh dear... 

Click to expand...

I did say it was the theatre of dreams .but meant nightmares


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 10, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Massive game today for the Klopp Express. I expect to see Citys big guns in with the exception of Laporte, *Ederson will start today despite all the reports he's out.*

Hopefully the games not ruined by inept refereeing/VAR.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 10, 2019)

Have a feeling City will sneak it today , hopefully itâ€™s an open game and VAR has nothing to do with it


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 10, 2019)

Hope it's a good game, no dodgy Mane moments as well


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 10, 2019)

Oh my lord, City robbed already


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 10, 2019)

Handball all day long. Great finish though but City hard done by


----------



## Piece (Nov 10, 2019)

Thatâ€™s a cheeky hand ball not given.


----------



## HowlingGale (Nov 10, 2019)

How is that not a pen? Did it hit Silva's arm. Can't really tell.


----------



## hairball_89 (Nov 10, 2019)

Definite handball. Definite pen. Don't give a monkeys! Redmen need to calm down though, only 1 team playing atm.


----------



## GreiginFife (Nov 10, 2019)

Need to get the popcorn in for reading the posts justifying why it wasn't a penalty. I am sure they will be superb


----------



## Piece (Nov 10, 2019)

Thatâ€™s offside

or not! ðŸ¤£ðŸ˜‚ðŸ¤£


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 10, 2019)

Alli last week TAA this week. Does handball not count any more?


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 10, 2019)

Cheating Liverpool, if he doesnâ€™t handle it there then it goes to Sterling simple as that.

VAR is shyte


----------



## Reemul (Nov 10, 2019)

It's Liverpool bound to be a goal


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 10, 2019)

No argument with that. Should be 1-1 though


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 10, 2019)

Of course the second goal stands.


----------



## chrisd (Nov 10, 2019)

Very Average Refereeing


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 10, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Have a feeling City will sneak it today , hopefully itâ€™s an open game and VAR has nothing to do with it
		
Click to expand...

VAR having a big influence so far


----------



## Reemul (Nov 10, 2019)

To be fair City only play one way and this looks like it could be a kicking for City, 3 or 4 nil seems easily possible, No Edison or Laporte they look really weak at the back. City need a rethink


----------



## HowlingGale (Nov 10, 2019)

It's not VAR. It's the Muppets that are using it.


----------



## GreiginFife (Nov 10, 2019)

Going to be a big bucket of popcorn needed. Absolutely shocking officiating.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 10, 2019)

HowlingGale said:



			It's not VAR. It's the Muppets that are using it.
		
Click to expand...

Why arent they showing the goal again? Suspicious.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 10, 2019)

VAR bottled it there. As clear an obvious mistake on the pictures as you'll see. Arm in an "un-natural" position as per the definition


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 10, 2019)

Whoâ€™d have thought city would need to spend another 50 million plus on another defender.

I didnâ€™t realise how important Laporte was to their team.


----------



## hairball_89 (Nov 10, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			VAR bottled it there. As clear an obvious mistake on the pictures as you'll see. Arm in an "un-natural" position as per the definition
		
Click to expand...

100%. We could (should?) be 0-3 down, with a pen, sterling chance from the FK, Aguero/Stones from a FK. Yet somehow we're 2-0 up? Was convinced the 2nd would be ruled out. VAR is horrendous, but we've absolutely benefited hugely. 

Happy days!


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 10, 2019)

Looking grim for City already.

2 nil down and ManÃ© hasnâ€™t used his dive yet.


----------



## Piece (Nov 10, 2019)

There are goals for City here


----------



## Farneyman (Nov 10, 2019)

Watched the first bit of the game then that handball was missed/ignored...switched off...can't be bothered with that 

Can't understand how it wasn't given. Might give match the day watch later to see what they sayÂ¿Â¿Â¿


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 10, 2019)

No idea how this is deemed not in an unnatural position 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1193573124673089537


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 10, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			No idea how this is deemed not in an unnatural position 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1193573124673089537

Click to expand...

VAR is supposed to reduce inconsistencies not add to them.

Last week Ali goal was allowed with his arm above his head! Yet TTA arm is deemed to be in a natural position?


----------



## Dando (Nov 10, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			VAR is supposed to reduce inconsistencies not add to them.

Last week Ali goal was allowed with his arm above his head! Yet TTA arm is deemed to be in a natural position?
		
Click to expand...

didnâ€™t the ball hit the city players arm then TAAâ€™s?


----------



## Cherry13 (Nov 10, 2019)

Regardless of the handball, why is augero just stopping to appeal and not doing his job to hinder the opposition team breaking.  Then edge of the box sterling doing nothing and Fabinho allowed to stand at edge on his own, add to that bravo being flat footed, basically city have no one to blame but there poor defense.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 10, 2019)

Dando said:



			didnâ€™t the ball hit the city players arm then TAAâ€™s?
		
Click to expand...

It did but that looked accidental.


----------



## Paperboy (Nov 10, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			It did but that looked accidental.
		
Click to expand...

Which is also taken into account giving more leeway according to Sky. Unfortunately Sean, when it comes to Liverpool your extremely blinkered.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 10, 2019)

Paperboy said:



			Which is also taken into account giving more leeway according to Sky. Unfortunately Sean, when it comes to Liverpool your extremely blinkered.
		
Click to expand...

I think you would be very aggrieved if the shoe was on the other foot Simon, that was a pen all day long.


----------



## Piece (Nov 10, 2019)

Thats too easy. Walker ball watching


----------



## Dando (Nov 10, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			I think you would be very aggrieved if the shoe was on the other foot Simon, that was a pen all day long.
		
Click to expand...

The first offence was the city handball


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 10, 2019)

Piece said:



			Thats too easy. Walker ball watching
		
Click to expand...

That's his thing isn't it, does it far too often to be regarded as a high quality defender.


----------



## Paperboy (Nov 10, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			I think you would be very aggrieved if the shoe was on the other foot Simon, that was a pen all day long.
		
Click to expand...

Sean it's VAR's fault, not Liverpool's. Blame the people behind the screen. I thought the second would get chalked off tbh.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 10, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			That's his thing isn't it, does it far too often to be regarded as a high quality defender.
		
Click to expand...

Caught sleeping for sure.


----------



## Captainron (Nov 10, 2019)

Until the VAR goes the same way as the rugby then it will continue to be a shambles. The video ref should be in the main referees ear. 
Get some screens in the stadium for the replays too.


----------



## Jensen (Nov 10, 2019)

Piece said:



			Thats too easy. Walker ball watching
		
Click to expand...

He should've stayed with a big club ðŸ˜œ


----------



## Dando (Nov 10, 2019)

Nice dive by Sterling


----------



## Piece (Nov 10, 2019)

Jensen said:



			He should've stayed with a big club ðŸ˜œ
		
Click to expand...

Sheff Utd? ðŸ˜œ


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 10, 2019)

Captainron said:



			Until the VAR goes the same way as the rugby then it will continue to be a shambles. The video ref should be in the main referees ear.
Get some screens in the stadium for the replays too.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s beggars belief that the on field ref canâ€™t just run over to a screen and watch a replay.


----------



## Captainron (Nov 10, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Itâ€™s beggars belief that the on field ref canâ€™t just run over to a screen and watch a replay.
		
Click to expand...

It should be like Rugby where the ref and the video bod talk to each other while reviewing the incident on a big screen which everyone can see. 
Itâ€™s worked well for years that way on rugby.


----------



## Piece (Nov 10, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Itâ€™s beggars belief that the on field ref canâ€™t just run over to a screen and watch a replay.
		
Click to expand...

May as well give those monitors to CashConverters for all the use they are getting


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 10, 2019)

Goals change matches and so if City got the penalty (I think they should have) and gone 1-0 up then a totally different scenario. That said the second two Liverpool goals have been really good and no qualms. Does simply question how good VAR is and why is it so inconsistent so what is given one week is not given the next when looking at the pictures appears to the neutral at home exactly the same. Sadly today in what is arguably the biggest game of the season they have got it badly wrong. That said Liverpool have been the better side throughout but how different could it have been?


----------



## Piece (Nov 10, 2019)

Sterling has been excellent this game


----------



## Dando (Nov 10, 2019)

Pep is such a dick


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 10, 2019)

Piece said:



			Sterling has been excellent this game
		
Click to expand...

Improved a lot.


----------



## Piece (Nov 10, 2019)

Both managers should have had a word in their ears from the officials after a bit of OTT reactions


----------



## Dando (Nov 10, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Improved a lot.
		
Click to expand...

his dive was great


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 10, 2019)

Piece said:



			Both managers should have had a word in their ears from the officials after a bit of OTT reactions
		
Click to expand...

Agreed though I can see why Pep feels hard done by. That said they need to keep it in check and their reactions help no-one. Makes you wonder why the 4th official can't do more to reign them in


----------



## Dando (Nov 10, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Agreed though I can see why Pep feels hard done by. That said they need to keep it in check and their reactions help no-one. Makes you wonder why the 4th official can't do more to reign them in
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ 
neither were a penalty.


----------



## Dando (Nov 10, 2019)

Best team won and var was spot on!
Nice to old slap head being so gracious in defeat


----------



## Dando (Nov 10, 2019)

#pepout


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 10, 2019)

Dando said:



			ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
neither were a penalty.
		
Click to expand...

Think we need to disagree early on. First one I thought was a clear penalty especially when you see the hand is in an unnatural position under the current guidance. I though at the very least the referee should have looked at it. Clearly you disagree and I respect that so we'll hold our opinions and differ


----------



## Dando (Nov 10, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Think we need to disagree early on. First one I thought was a clear penalty especially when you see the hand is in an unnatural position under the current guidance. I though at the very least the referee should have looked at it. Clearly you disagree and I respect that so we'll hold our opinions and differ
		
Click to expand...

First one, it hit the city players arm first


----------



## user2010 (Nov 10, 2019)

BOOM! All aboard.


----------



## Fish (Nov 10, 2019)

VAR took 3.5 minutes to disallow a Sheffield United goal for no real reason yesterday. 

Today, within 10 seconds, 2 handballs were decided, and there was none of that line drawing check on Salah for offside.

Where is the consistency?

VAR is causing more issues than itâ€™s worth imo.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 10, 2019)

Dando said:



			First one, it hit the city players arm first
		
Click to expand...

But then hit the Liverpool player's arm. So even if it wasn't a penalty, under the current rules the Liverpool goal should have been disallowed due to handball in the build up to the goal.


----------



## Piece (Nov 10, 2019)

Fish said:



			VAR took 3.5 minutes to disallow a Sheffield United goal for no real reason yesterday.

Today, within 10 seconds, 2 handballs were decided, and there was none of that line drawing check on Salah for offside.

Where is the consistency?

VAR is causing more issues than itâ€™s worth imo.
		
Click to expand...

I agree. The offside today was near identical to yesterday and yet one took 3.5 mins to decide and the other 3.5 secs. Iâ€™d argue that the line for the â€™offsideâ€™ wasn't correctly drawn today.

Being clear, the team with the better defence won today.


----------



## Bazzatron (Nov 10, 2019)

Big West Midlands derby for Villa today, and just another Sunday for Wolves.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 10, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			He should of had a penalty last week and also as Silva said, heâ€™s never been booked for diving.
Next week the focus will be on someone else as we all know, every team has players that opposition fans believe dive every time.
		
Click to expand...

I donâ€™t think heâ€™s a diver ! He should have got a pen your right.
But he went down far to easy when he had beaten his man.
Last week he looked like he had no studs in his boots.
Most players that do this become great players by just staying on their feet.


----------



## adam6177 (Nov 10, 2019)

Great 3 points for the reds, man city are a decent side but weren't clinical. Onwards we go.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 10, 2019)

HowlingGale said:



			How is that not a pen? Did it hit Silva's arm. Can't really tell.
		
Click to expand...

Yes it did .
So not a pen.
Off anything else itâ€™s a penalty but Bernado knocked it on with his hand.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 10, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			VAR bottled it there. As clear an obvious mistake on the pictures as you'll see. Arm in an "un-natural" position as per the definition
		
Click to expand...

Is that Bernado or TAA.????


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 10, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Looking grim for City already.

2 nil down and ManÃ© hasnâ€™t used his dive yet.
		
Click to expand...

You have gone back on your word that you would not mention this again.
Thatâ€™s very disappointing.


----------



## Fish (Nov 10, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			Big West Midlands derby for Villa today, and just another Sunday for Wolves.
		
Click to expand...

I know thereâ€™s only 3 points between 5th & 15th, but after enjoying watching Wolves play last season, and I really rate their manager, itâ€™s good to see them higher up the league table after a poor start, I think theyâ€™ll push on now and be in that leading group just behind the top 4.

I canâ€™t see anyone else pushing themselves into the top 4, I think the gap will get bigger between 4th & 5th, and I donâ€™t think the top 4 will stay in its current standings.

I do however think the bottoms 3 is already settled, there may not be much difference in the win, loss stats to some clubs just above them, but the amount of goals conceded by those 3 is substantial and I think all 3 of them are doomed already.


----------



## Bazzatron (Nov 10, 2019)

Fish said:



			I know thereâ€™s only 3 points between 5th & 15th, but after enjoying watching Wolves play last season, and I really rate their manager, itâ€™s good to see them higher up the league table after a poor start, I think theyâ€™ll push on now and be in that leading group just behind the top 4.

I canâ€™t see anyone else pushing themselves into the top 4, I think the gap will get bigger between 4th & 5th, and I donâ€™t think the top 4 will stay in its current standings.

I do however think the bottoms 3 is already settled, there may not be much difference in the win, loss stats to some clubs just above them, but the amount of goals conceded by those 3 is substantial and I think all 3 of them are doomed already.
		
Click to expand...

We've already played 24 matches this season so I expected us to be a little off the pace but I've been surprised how well we've done in the last few weeks.
Today was the most one sided 2-1 you'll ever see. 4-0 wouldn't have flattered us.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 10, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Think we need to disagree early on. First one I thought was a clear penalty especially when you see the hand is in an unnatural position under the current guidance. I though at the very least the referee should have looked at it. Clearly you disagree and I respect that so we'll hold our opinions and differ
		
Click to expand...

Did you see it hit the city players hand at waist height?That should have been handball, as it would have gone past him and he would not have deflected it onto TAA.
Have you watched it again?


----------



## Hobbit (Nov 10, 2019)

Fish said:



			I know thereâ€™s only 3 points between 5th & 15th, but after enjoying watching Wolves play last season, and I really rate their manager, itâ€™s good to see them higher up the league table after a poor start, I think theyâ€™ll push on now and be in that leading group just behind the top 4.

I canâ€™t see anyone else pushing themselves into the top 4, I think the gap will get bigger between 4th & 5th, and I donâ€™t think the top 4 will stay in its current standings.

I do however think the bottoms 3 is already settled, there may not be much difference in the win, loss stats to some clubs just above them, but the amount of goals conceded by those 3 is substantial and I think all 3 of them are doomed already.
		
Click to expand...

Just behind the top 4 but ahead of Arsenal??


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 10, 2019)

Fish said:



			and there was none of that line drawing check on Salah for offside.
		
Click to expand...

You must have been too busy prepping your rant on here mate, they showed the VAR offside line check thing for the Salah goal


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 10, 2019)

Piece said:



			I agree. The offside today was near identical to yesterday and yet one took 3.5 mins to decide and the other 3.5 secs. Iâ€™d argue that the line for the â€™offsideâ€™ wasn't correctly drawn today.

Being clear, the team with the better defence won today.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s possible the one yesterday was wrong!!
They drew the line through the defenders ear and his head was goalside of the line.


----------



## Fish (Nov 10, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Just behind the top 4 but ahead of Arsenal??

Click to expand...

I donâ€™t think Arsenal will finish in the top 6, weâ€™ve seen everything theyâ€™ve got, and itâ€™s not a lot, whereas other teams are finding their feet and are getting better, I can see them getting more and more frustrated and losing more ground.


----------



## Cherry13 (Nov 10, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes it did .
So not a pen.
Off anything else itâ€™s a penalty but Bernado knocked it on with his hand.
		
Click to expand...




clubchamp98 said:



			Did you see it hit the city players hand at waist height?That should have been handball, as it would have gone past him and he would not have deflected it onto TAA.
Have you watched it again?
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s certainly a head scratcher of a decision and made more complicated by the fact Liverpool scored within that passage of play.  

So if you play it backwards from the next stoppage, itâ€™s feasible to say TAA handball contributed to a goal, therefore that goal needs to be brought back to the handball, the handball was in the box, therefore itâ€™s a penalty to man city, however the ball was played onto a Liverpool player via a hand therefore itâ€™s a free kick to Liverpool in there own box.... i for one would have LOVED to have seen that given.  Imagine Klopps head exploding!!  

In all seriousness, it was just an unlucky passage of play for city and as I said earlier they should have done much better to avoid the goal. They had ample opportunity. 

I thought Klopp got his tactics spot on , especially in the first 30 min, played the midfield a bit deeper and bypassed Rodri and Gundogan. Gave them no opportunity to build a foothold in the game.  They also stopped City from getting to the byline for the cut back well, aguero looked isolated and KDB was non existant in the first half.  Good performance for Liverpool and the title is thereâ€™s to lose now!


----------



## Fish (Nov 10, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			You must have been too busy prepping your rant on here mate, they showed the VAR offside line check thing for the Salah goal 

Click to expand...

i didnâ€™t see it, mind you I was buffering on & off at the time, was it shown at the time or as an afterthought?


----------



## Hobbit (Nov 10, 2019)

Fish said:



			I donâ€™t think Arsenal will finish in the top 6, weâ€™ve seen everything theyâ€™ve got, and itâ€™s not a lot, whereas other teams are finding their feet and are getting better, I can see them getting more and more frustrated and losing more ground.
		
Click to expand...

Wolves ahead, yes. Burnley are starting to find their rhythm again. And Bournemouth are looking decent. I can't see Utd getting above them though. 8th or 9th for Arsenal.


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 10, 2019)

Fish said:



			i didnâ€™t see it, mind you I was buffering on & off at the time, was it shown at the time or as an afterthought?
		
Click to expand...

I didnâ€™t see it until much later, but I was multi tasking with cooking so may have missed it at the time.


----------



## Fish (Nov 10, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Wolves ahead, yes. Burnley are starting to find their rhythm again. And Bournemouth are looking decent. I can't see Utd getting above them though. 8th or 9th for Arsenal.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, I was being nice ðŸ˜


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 10, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			But then hit the Liverpool player's arm. So even if it wasn't a penalty, under the current rules the Liverpool goal should have been disallowed due to handball in the build up to the goal.
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s the interesting point about it all 

For me itâ€™s that whole grey area - itâ€™s accidental so shouldnâ€™t be a penalty but I donâ€™t know about all this silhouette stuff ðŸ˜©

Think it would have been harsh if it was a penalty but if the ref had given it then I donâ€™t think it would have been overturned 

But if the initial handball was Silva then hits TAA and we go and score how far back do they go in regards the build up ? 

Thought overall we deserved the three points - really solid performance with still a lot more to come. It maybe 9 point gap but we are coming up to a very busy period thatâ€™s going to stretch the squad 

Listened to 5live a minute a go and the City fans calling in made me giggle a bit - seems everyone is against them and we have an unfair advantage ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Fish (Nov 10, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			I didnâ€™t see it until much later, but I was multi tasking with cooking so may have missed it at the time.
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™ve seen images on Twitter, but the line doesnâ€™t look straight in comparison to the 18yd box! It certainly wasnâ€™t scrutinised as much as Sheffieldâ€™s â€˜big toeâ€™ decision, which was a travesty imo!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 10, 2019)

As I understand VAR an attacking team can not gain an advantage / goal from any handball.
It dosnt matter if itâ€™s accidental or not.
Not sure if you can get a pen if one of your players handballs it in the build up.

But having said that TAA gets the ball with his arm ?
How VAR gives the goal is a mystery 22 seconds elapsed between hitting his arm and us scoring.
Should the goal be disallowed?? What decision is given. 
First offence is Bernado handball.

So my guess no goal and free kick for Liverpool for handball.
No penalty.
VAR itâ€™s anyones guess.


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 10, 2019)

I think itâ€™s Liverpool then city, then a 10+ point gap to Leicester/Chelsea, then atleast a 10 point gap down to 5th.

5th downwards could be anyoneâ€™s, youâ€™d imagine Sheff Utd would fall away a bit, but they have been playing really well. I can see 5th-15th being covered by a very small points gap.
I havenâ€™t seen much from Norwich to see them improving, so would commit to them going down. Watford and Southampton have potential to get out of it, but will be close.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 10, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Thatâ€™s the interesting point about it all

For me itâ€™s that whole grey area - itâ€™s accidental so shouldnâ€™t be a penalty but I donâ€™t know about all this silhouette stuff ðŸ˜©

Think it would have been harsh if it was a penalty but if the ref had given it then I donâ€™t think it would have been overturned

But if the initial handball was Silva then hits TAA and we go and score how far back do they go in regards the build up ?

Thought overall we deserved the three points - really solid performance with still a lot more to come. It maybe 9 point gap but we are coming up to a very busy period thatâ€™s going to stretch the squad

Listened to 5live a minute a go and the City fans calling in made me giggle a bit - seems everyone is against them and we have an unfair advantage ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

We do have an advantage we can defend properly.

Itâ€™s only 8 pts to the second best team isnâ€™t it.?


----------



## fundy (Nov 10, 2019)

Fish said:



			I donâ€™t think Arsenal will finish in the top 6, weâ€™ve seen everything theyâ€™ve got, and itâ€™s not a lot, whereas other teams are finding their feet and are getting better, I can see them getting more and more frustrated and losing more ground.
		
Click to expand...

Fish a fishing  I nearly bit


----------



## adam6177 (Nov 10, 2019)

Pep was right about mane diving.... Diving header for the 3rd goal.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 10, 2019)

So is it Spurs missing out on top 4 ?

And which one from Arsenal and UTD will miss out on top 6 or will it be both ?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 10, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			Pep was right about mane diving.... Diving header for the 3rd goal.
		
Click to expand...

Posh poor loser .
Bang out of order with the ref and Linoâ€™s.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 10, 2019)

I can't rmemeber the game. But early doors this season we had a scenario where sky mentioned it was a certain amount of phases between a foul and a gaol we conceded. So VAR wouldnt check it. 

For me, the TAA handball wasn't a pen, but it was clearly in the start of a counter and therefor an attacking team got an an advantage forma handball.something that is clearly an infringement this season. So Should have ruled first goal out. 

That said. City had multiple chances to stop it and didn't. Liverpool the better team, but fortunate in a couple of big calls. Much like city were with kompany not getting sent of for his shocking tackle last year.....


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 10, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So is it Spurs missing out on top 4 ?

And which one from Arsenal and UTD will miss out on top 6 or will it be both ?
		
Click to expand...

With the way the teams are playing atm I canâ€™t see spurs making up 12 points on Chelsea or Leicester, but there is a long way to go so who knows. 
If I was betting Iâ€™d say spurs 5th.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 10, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So is it Spurs missing out on top 4 ?

And which one from Arsenal and UTD will miss out on top 6 or will it be both ?
		
Click to expand...

What drugs are you on Phil itâ€™s barely November and youâ€™re writing Arsenal of top 4 already?

Similarly you shouldnâ€™t think that Liverpool have won the league already ( you probably think this because youâ€™re 9 points ahead of City)

Have you not learned anything from watching football for 30+ years?

9 points is nothing with 25+ games to go.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 10, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			What drugs are you on Phil itâ€™s barely November and youâ€™re writing Arsenal of top 4 already?
		
Click to expand...

Arsenal have no chance of top 4 , they arenâ€™t good enough , they are going to struggle to get top 6 - 4 teams are clearly streets ahead of Arsenal 

But Iâ€™ll bet you Â£20 to H4H that Arsenal donâ€™t make too 4 



			Similarly you shouldnâ€™t think that Liverpool have won the league already ( you probably think this because youâ€™re 9 points ahead of City)

Have you not learned anything from watching football for 30+ years?

9 points is nothing with 25+ games to go.
		
Click to expand...

I donâ€™t think we have already won the title - stated as such in my previous post


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 10, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Arsenal have no chance of top 4 , they arenâ€™t good enough , they are going to struggle to get top 6 - 4 teams are clearly streets ahead of Arsenal

But Iâ€™ll bet you Â£20 to H4H that Arsenal donâ€™t make too 4

I donâ€™t think we have already won the title - stated as such in my previous post
		
Click to expand...

only Â£20?
id say youâ€™d be safe with a Â£200 bet


----------



## Wolf (Nov 10, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			What drugs are you on Phil itâ€™s barely November and youâ€™re writing Arsenal of top 4 already?

Similarly you shouldnâ€™t think that Liverpool have won the league already ( you probably think this because youâ€™re 9 points ahead of City)

Have you not learned anything from watching football for 30+ years?

9 points is nothing with 25+ games to go.
		
Click to expand...

He's clearly not on the same wonder drugs you are to think we have any chance of top 4 with the lack of invention we have, the inability to defend we have, the lack of identity we have and the manager we have.... 

You're right on one thing that 9pts is nothing at this stage, because it will be a whole lot more between us and 4th come end of the season.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Have a feeling City will sneak it today , hopefully itâ€™s an open game and VAR has nothing to do with it
		
Click to expand...

Right that's it. You're off the Klopp Express. Period. Feck off and "support"  your local team.......ðŸ¤¬ðŸ¤¬ðŸ¤¬


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Cheating Liverpool, if he doesnâ€™t handle it there then it goes to Sterling simple as that.

VAR is shyte
		
Click to expand...


Before VAR that wasnt handball. Fact. It always had to be "deliberate", I'm sure our resident Ref will confirm this. 

 It's also very apt when you had,Pires,Henry etc in your team ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			It did but that looked accidental.
		
Click to expand...

So a ball has changed direction from an "accidental"  handball yet TAA was deliberate?? ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ you are a proper tool.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2019)

Scrotie McBoogerballs said:



			BOOM! All aboard.

Click to expand...

Choo choo.......you can have liverpoolohils space in 1st classðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 10, 2019)

It amazes me that something at 6 mins of a game is the reason City lost......not that they couldn't score in the next 80 odd mins before they got one back....
If you don't take your chances you lose.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 10, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			So a ball has changed direction from an "accidental"  handball yet TAA was deliberate?? ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ you are a proper tool.
		
Click to expand...

Yes why not? 

Silva was ball to hand and no time to react. TTA was hand to ball with plenty of time to react. 

Arguable sending off as well as it would have denied a goal scoring opportunity. 

Ref bottled it and VAR never overrules the ref.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			It amazes me that something at 6 mins of a game is the reason City lost......not that they couldn't score in the next 80 odd mins before they got one back....
If you don't take your chances you lose.

Click to expand...

Its Liverpool, they all dont want us to win anything. Imagine how unbearable they'll be??  ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Yes why not?

Silva was ball to hand and no time to react. TTA was hand to ball with plenty of time to react.

Arguable sending off as well as it would have denied a goal scoring opportunity.

Ref bottled it and VAR never overrules the ref.
		
Click to expand...

Get a grip.

It isnt arguable because 2 x  professional arbiters of the rules has deemed it within the rules.  You're just a Armchair know all who seems to think they know the rules. Obviously you don"t

You must've missed the VAR over ruling ay least 8 decisions this season. ðŸ‘


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 10, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Yes why not?

Silva was ball to hand and no time to react. TTA was hand to ball with plenty of time to react.

Arguable sending off as well as it would have denied a goal scoring opportunity.

Ref bottled it and VAR never overrules the ref.
		
Click to expand...

So you think it was deliberate handball ?


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So you think it was deliberate handball ?
		
Click to expand...

Of course he does.

@ fragger or any other mods  can you ban liverpoolPhil please please pretty please ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ‘


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			VAR having a big influence so far
		
Click to expand...

Rightly or wrongly? It's amazing how we all see the game differently. Being there I cant remember any real contentious decisions that needed VAR.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 10, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Looking grim for City already.

2 nil down and ManÃ© hasnâ€™t used his dive yet.
		
Click to expand...

Disgraceful dive from Mane 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1193636591673184256


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2019)

And for any avoidance of doubt it should've been a one, here is a quote from Mike Riley head of PGMOL

"*In this country we have always said â€“ and this is the players and managers saying it to us â€“ that arms are part of the game and as long as you are not trying to extend your body to block a shot then there is more scope so that we donâ€™t penalise.

"What we donâ€™t want to create is a culture where defenders have to defend with their hands behind their back or where it is acceptable for attackers to try to drill the ball at their hand to win a penalty.

"We have worked to our guidelines for the last three or four seasons and by and large, people accept thatâ€™s the interpretation we apply and I donâ€™t think that changes *next season.â€


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 10, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Rightly or wrongly? It's amazing how we all see the game differently. Being there I cant remember any real contentious decisions that needed VAR.
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s a tricky one to answer, on the first goal I think pre VAR there is no debate as one accidental handball cancels out the other. With VAR goals have been ruled out for a similar handball further up the pitch in the build up to a goal. For me I think the first goal stands without question.

For the Salah goal, I havenâ€™t seen any replays of the offside with the lines drawn, but on the tv replays he looked   Onside. 
The sheff utd goal getting taken away yesterday was ridiculous, that should not be what VAR is there for.


----------



## Fish (Nov 10, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			Thatâ€™s a tricky one to answer, on the first goal I think pre VAR there is no debate as one accidental handball cancels out the other. With VAR goals have been ruled out for a similar handball further up the pitch in the build up to a goal. For me I think the first goal stands without question.

For the Salah goal, I havenâ€™t seen any replays of the offside with the lines drawn, but on the tv replays he looked   Onside.
The sheff utd goal getting taken away yesterday was ridiculous, that should not be what VAR is there for.
		
Click to expand...

this is doing the rounds.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1193572089225199616


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 10, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			And for any avoidance of doubt it should've been a one, here is a quote from Mike Riley head of PGMOL

"*In this country we have always said â€“ and this is the players and managers saying it to us â€“ that arms are part of the game and as long as you are not trying to extend your body to block a shot then there is more scope so that we donâ€™t penalise.*

*"What we donâ€™t want to create is a culture where defenders have to defend with their hands behind their back or where it is acceptable for attackers to try to drill the ball at their hand to win a penalty.*

*"We have worked to our guidelines for the last three or four seasons and by and large, people accept thatâ€™s the interpretation we apply and I donâ€™t think that changes *next season.â€
		
Click to expand...

Ha Ha Ha Ha, Is this the same PGMOL you disagreed with when they stated Sonâ€™s Red Card last week was correct.

Amazing youâ€™ve become a fan of Refs and VAR suddenly.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 10, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Rightly or wrongly? It's amazing how we all see the game differently. Being there I cant remember any real contentious decisions that needed VAR.
		
Click to expand...

Serious answer is because how swift VAR decisions were dealt with today, it was the speed weâ€™d wish theyâ€™d take all the time, although they have to get them right.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			Thatâ€™s a tricky one to answer, on the first goal I think pre VAR there is no debate as one accidental handball cancels out the other. With VAR goals have been ruled out for a similar handball further up the pitch in the build up to a goal. For me I think the first goal stands without question.

For the Salah goal, I havenâ€™t seen any replays of the offside with the lines drawn, but on the tv replays he looked   Onside.
The sheff utd goal getting taken away yesterday was ridiculous, that should not be what VAR is there for.
		
Click to expand...

Just because we have VAR the rules of the game havent  changed.

I agree  though VAR has wrongly ruled out goals.i said earlier in in the season how the handball rule change is rubbish, handball should only be deliberate. I even said Sissokos handball on the CL final was harsh.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Ha Ha Ha Ha, Is this the same PGMOL you disagreed with when they stated Sonâ€™s Red Card last week was correct.

Amazing youâ€™ve become a fan of Refs and VAR suddenly.

Click to expand...

Yeah.

No I've not. VAR is total bollocks used by retards.


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 10, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Just because we have VAR the rules of the game havent  changed.

I agree  though VAR has wrongly ruled out goals.i said earlier in in the season how the handball rule change is rubbish, handball should only be deliberate. I even said Sissokos handball on the CL final was harsh.
		
Click to expand...

if that ball hitting hand situation had happened on the edge of the City 18 yard box, and the ball falls to Fabinho do you think the goal would have stood?


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2019)

Fish said:



			this is doing the rounds.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1193572089225199616

Click to expand...

I agree with that virgin it was offside. Even more reason to enjoy the win when Kompany wasnt sent off for the assault on Salah last season.  

Decisions even themselves out eventually  ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 10, 2019)

Fish said:



			this is doing the rounds.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1193572089225199616

Click to expand...

If thatâ€™s accurate then I guess he is offside and VAR has failed.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			if that ball hitting hand situation had happened on the edge of the City 18 yard box, and the ball falls to Fabinho do you think the goal would have stood?
		
Click to expand...

I'd expect a pen ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 10, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			if that ball hitting hand situation had happened on the edge of the City 18 yard box, and the ball falls to Fabinho do you think the goal would have stood?
		
Click to expand...

The rule is a joke though.
Liverpool were defending when TAA handled it.
But the rule says in the run up to a goal .
You canâ€™t be doing both 
Thatâ€™s why treating handball differently between attackers and defenders just stupid.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 10, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			If thatâ€™s accurate then I guess he is offside and VAR has failed.
		
Click to expand...

All that money spent on VAR and they could have just used Twitter!


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 10, 2019)

Fish said:



			this is doing the rounds.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1193572089225199616

Click to expand...

Looking at that video shouldn't they be taking line from the edge of the penalty area rather than the cut of the grass. When the image moves to the left you can see that the line is not parallel to the edge of the area and needs to be rotated clockwise to match the 18 yard line.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 10, 2019)

Once again the worst part of all this is that people are talking about VAR rather than Fabinhoâ€™s strike or Hendersonâ€™s cross for Maneâ€™s header.
Genuinely think this starting to look like the season they put the final nail in Footballâ€™s coffin.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 10, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			The rule is a joke though.
Liverpool were defending when TAA handled it.
But the rule says in the run up to a goal .
You canâ€™t be doing both
Thatâ€™s why treating handball differently between attackers and defenders just stupid.
		
Click to expand...

So if a defender deliberately handballâ€™s in his own box and then clears it up field and an attacker runs through and scores, the goal should stand?


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Once again the worst part of all this is that people are talking about VAR rather than Fabinhoâ€™s strike or Hendersonâ€™s cross for Maneâ€™s header.
Genuinely think this starting to look like the season they put the final nail in Footballâ€™s coffin.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on. 

On a separate note for the last 6 league  games  I've had 10er on Fabinho 1st goal, today I was in the upper anny as I took my lad. As were going up the ground I asked  my lad what bet he wanted to do. ( always have a bet as abit of fun) Running late so as  we flies up the stairs  I headed to the betting kiosk to do 10er Fabinho 1st goal for me and ,10er mane for my boy. There was no coupons/slips left so I couldn't do the bet ðŸ¤¬ðŸ¤¬


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 10, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Spot on.

On a separate note for the last 6 league  games  I've had 10er on Fabinho 1st goal, today I was in the upper anny as I took my lad. As were going up the ground I asked  my lad what bet he wanted to do. ( always have a bet as abit of fun) Running late so as  we flies up the stairs  I headed to the betting kiosk to do 10er Fabinho 1st goal for me and ,10er mane for my boy. There was no coupons/slips left so I couldn't do the bet ðŸ¤¬ðŸ¤¬
		
Click to expand...

Not got a phone App?


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			So if a defender deliberately handballâ€™s in his own box and then clears it up field and an attacker runs through and scores, the goal should stand?
		
Click to expand...

Yes, but on this occasion neither Silva nor TAA Deliberately handled it. I also thought Citys winner against spurs was harshly disallowed.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 10, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes, but on this occasion neither Silva nor TAA Deliberately handled it. I also thought Citys winner against spurs was harshly disallowed.
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™m not saying they did, it was in answer to him saying you canâ€™t do both defend and attack.
Plus Spurs got away with a few decisions last week, like you say it evenâ€™s itself out over a season.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 10, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Not got a phone App?
		
Click to expand...

Yes, many but I always like to have  a bet "on course" have done since I can remember. Tradition ðŸ‘


----------



## MegaSteve (Nov 10, 2019)

Wolf said:



			He's clearly not on the same wonder drugs you are to think we have any chance of top 4 with the lack of invention we have, the inability to defend we have, the lack of identity we have and the manager we have....

You're right on one thing that 9pts is nothing at this stage, because it will be a whole lot more between us and 4th come end of the season.
		
Click to expand...

Think you maybe overlooking the possibility of Dick leaving and Freddie being the answer to our dreams...

Then again...


----------



## Wolf (Nov 10, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Think you maybe overlooking the possibility of Dick leaving and Freddie being the answer to our dreams...

Then again...
		
Click to expand...

Sadly I think the board will be flaccid and Dick will remain in charge ðŸ™„

Can't see Freddie as the answer to our dreams either unless we're talking the Elm Street variety.... 

But a younger manager would be a better prospect and can think of a couple that I'd see as worth a go..


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 10, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Yes why not? 

Silva was ball to hand and no time to react. TTA was hand to ball with plenty of time to react. 

Arguable sending off as well as it would have denied a goal scoring opportunity. 

Ref bottled it and VAR never overrules the ref.
		
Click to expand...


So you are that well up on the rules that you dont know that the double jeopardy rule changed a few years ago?

I think you should go and see a doctor while you still can on the NHS.


----------



## Reemul (Nov 10, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			So you are that well up on the rules that you dont know that the double jeopardy rule changed a few years ago?

I think you should go and see a doctor while you still can on the NHS.
		
Click to expand...

It was clearly handball, poor decision, if it happened the other way round Liverpool fans would be fuming as well. It's just too inconsistent, not given there but given next time.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 10, 2019)

Liverpool vs City /City Vs Liverpool produce the games that sky wishes the Man U vs Liverpool games would be.They seem to have everything.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 10, 2019)

Reemul said:



			It was clearly handball, poor decision, if it happened the other way round Liverpool fans would be fuming as well. It's just too inconsistent, not given there but given next time.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not arguing that. 

Sawtooth said that if a pen was given TAA would also have had to be sent off - he obviously doesnt know the rules.

Are you saying that TAA's would be given 10 times out of 10? Just asking.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 10, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			So if a defender deliberately handballâ€™s in his own box and then clears it up field and an attacker runs through and scores, the goal should stand?
		
Click to expand...

Where did I say that?
Post 5328 is what I think.

I was saying the handball rule is a joke.
If TAA is handball then Bernardoâ€™s is.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 10, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Liverpool vs City /City Vs Liverpool produce the games that sky wishes the Man U vs Liverpool games would be.They seem to have everything.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure UTD have historically been in too many classic ding ding matches. Or at least not consistently agsint the same team. Probably due to them being so dominant for so long. 

I think the period where they traded titles with arsenal there were some proper good matches, but generally it was the teams a little below which got the headlines due to teams being more evenly matched.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 10, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Where did I say that?
		
Click to expand...

â€œLiverpool were *defending* when TAA handled it.
But the rule says* in the run up to a goal* .
*You canâ€™t be doing both*â€

There


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 10, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			â€œLiverpool were *defending* when TAA handled it.
But the rule says* in the run up to a goal* .
*You canâ€™t be doing both*â€

There

Click to expand...

Can you be doing both.
As the handball rules are different for defenders and attackers.
Whatâ€™s the cut off point 22seconds not long enough?
Where does that say the goal should stand ,I canâ€™t see it?


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 10, 2019)

Reemul said:



			It was clearly handball, poor decision, if it happened the other way round Liverpool fans would be fuming as well. It's just too inconsistent, not given there but given next time.
		
Click to expand...

For God sake donâ€™t have the audacity to imply that a Liverpool fan might have it wrong.

Its not a pen and thatâ€™s that.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 10, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			For God sake donâ€™t have the audacity to imply that a Liverpool fan might have it wrong.

Its not a pen and thatâ€™s that.
		
Click to expand...

As much as you got it wrong with your double jeopardy bollocks, or is all of that shrouded in the mists of paranoia?


----------



## Slime (Nov 10, 2019)

In summary;
1st goal was handball,
2nd goal was offside,
Liverpool were EASILY the better side and thoroughly deserved all three points,
VAR has taken over and is ruining the beautiful game,
Man Utd won, scored three, should have had six and moved up to 7th,
Slime did well in the European Fantasy Golf and is now going to bed.

Goodnight all.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 10, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Can you be doing both.
As the handball rules are different for defenders and attackers.
Whatâ€™s the cut off point 22seconds not long enough?
Where does that say the goal should stand ,I canâ€™t see it?
		
Click to expand...

The same player canâ€™t but a team can.
As for the time, thatâ€™s another stupidity with VAR.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 10, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			For God sake donâ€™t have the audacity to imply that a Liverpool fan might have it wrong.

Its not a pen and thatâ€™s that.
		
Click to expand...

Is correct ,Bernado definitely handled it!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 11, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			The same player canâ€™t but a team can.
As for the time, thatâ€™s another stupidity with VAR.
		
Click to expand...

A team can be defending and attacking at the same time???
Are you sure?


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 11, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			A team can be defending and attacking at the same time???
Are you sure?
		
Click to expand...

If Sheffield's goal could be ruled out for an offside in the build that was about a minute before the goal then surely a goal can be ruled out for handball in your own box if you broke quickly from it and scored within a minute? I don't know how long it was between Arnold's hand ball and the goal though.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 11, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			If Sheffield's goal could be ruled out for an offside in the build that was about a minute before the goal then surely a goal can be ruled out for handball in your own box if you broke quickly from it and scored within a minute? I don't know how long it was between Arnold's hand ball and the goal though.
		
Click to expand...

22 Seconds.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2019)

Well watched Motd again this morning 

The incident with TAA they mentioned that the Silva handball needs to be taken out of it ? I was unsure why because that seemed to have a big affect on the whole situation ? 

But Peter Crouch is a very good pundit 

And some of those balls from the fullbacks were just world class


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 11, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			So you are that well up on the rules that you dont know that the double jeopardy rule changed a few years ago?
		
Click to expand...

Does the double jeopardy rule count for deliberate handball? So for example the Suarez handball for Uraguay  in the World Cup where he punched it off the line in the last minute would now only be a yellow card?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 11, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Does the double jeopardy rule count for deliberate handball? So for example the Suarez handball for Uraguay  in the World Cup where he punched it off the line in the last minute would now only be a yellow card?
		
Click to expand...

Who knows every week the rules seem to have a different interpretation.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 11, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			If Sheffield's goal could be ruled out for an offside in the build that was about a minute before the goal then surely a goal can be ruled out for handball in your own box if you broke quickly from it and scored within a minute? I don't know how long it was between Arnold's hand ball and the goal though.
		
Click to expand...

It's either a goal or a Liverpool free kick for handball by Silva.

If that pass from silva  misses TAA and Sterling slots then that goal would be chalked off under the current rules. How can it be a pen?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 11, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			If Sheffield's goal could be ruled out for an offside in the build that was about a minute before the goal then surely a goal can be ruled out for handball in your own box if you broke quickly from it and scored within a minute? I don't know how long it was between Arnold's hand ball and the goal though.
		
Click to expand...

That was the point I was trying to make!
Treating defenders and attackers differently when it comes to handball is nonesense .
Was TAA defending or part of the attacking move that led to the goal .
Surely you canâ€™t do both at the same time.
Itâ€™s ridiculous.
I posted yesterday .it should have been disallowed as the rules stand.
But if you do then the Bernado handball must have a bearing so free kick for Liverpool.
How they can say his handball is dismissed is baffling.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 11, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Does the double jeopardy rule count for deliberate handball? So for example the Suarez handball for Uraguay  in the World Cup where he punched it off the line in the last minute would now only be a yellow card?
		
Click to expand...

Good question!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 11, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			It's either a goal or a Liverpool free kick for handball by Silva.

If that pass from silva  misses TAA and Sterling slots then that goal would be chalked off under the current rules. How can it be a pen?
		
Click to expand...

Because you are playing what ifs, you can only judged what actually happened.
If your scenario had happened it would of remained 0-0. Not 1-0 LPool

TAA, according to whichever pundit/expert etc you listen too, it was all about whether his arm was in an unnatural position, Silvaâ€™s was an accident and unintentional.
Not saying they are right just what was being said during the game, even at half time thatâ€™s how Souness, Keane, Jose and Kompany all agreed on.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 11, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Does the double jeopardy rule count for deliberate handball? So for example the Suarez handball for Uraguay  in the World Cup where he punched it off the line in the last minute would now only be a yellow card?
		
Click to expand...

If someone in the crowd coughed when he did it then apparently punching it off the line is now perfectly acceptable.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 11, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Because you are playing what ifs, you can only judged what actually happened.
If your scenario had happened it would of remained 0-0. Not 1-0 LPool

TAA, according to whichever pundit/expert etc you listen too, it was all about whether his arm was in an unnatural position, Silvaâ€™s was an accident and unintentional.
Not saying they are right just what was being said during the game, even at half time thatâ€™s how Souness, Keane, Jose and Kompany all agreed on.
		
Click to expand...

Ok. So now its subjective to did the ref think it was intentional handball by TAA. 

He never thought it was. Btw, who was the ref at stockley park


----------



## adam6177 (Nov 11, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			TAA, according to whichever pundit/expert etc you listen too, it was all about whether his arm was in an unnatural position, Silvaâ€™s was an accident and unintentional.
		
Click to expand...

Based on that statement - if Silvas was and accident and unintentional then TAA was deliberate?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 11, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			Based on that statement - if Silvas was and accident and unintentional then TAA was deliberate?
		
Click to expand...

Possibly in their opinion.


----------



## garyinderry (Nov 11, 2019)

Football is a shambles at the minute.  Var is turning into a joke. 

In times gone by. The ref would make the decision and the linesman would assist.  These days they are told not to flag. 

The players these days are not playing to the whistle anymore. They are banking and crying for Var. Aguero should have attempted to smash the ball with his left foot instead of appealing for a penalty. 

If ever there was a decision where the ref needed to view a screen then this was it. 

TAA is a very lucky boy. I dont agree that hands need to be by the players side. I agree they can raise up naturally through movement and the need for balance. Where I believe he is very lucky is that he orientated both palms to face towards the incoming ball. I think it was an instinctive reaction to a ball quickly changing direction.


The nonsense rule of an attacker handling the ball before a goal wouldn't come into play here as  it lead to a potential penalty decision, not a goal.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 11, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Ok. So now its subjective to did the ref think it was intentional handball by TAA.

He never thought it was. Btw, who was the ref at stockley park
		
Click to expand...

Ref may not of seen it or agreed with VAR that it was in a natural position.

Iâ€™m not taking sides in this mate, the best team on the day won, it basÂ£ard VAR again.

Stockley Pk was Paul Tierney,


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 11, 2019)

I'd say someone is defending when their team is not in possession of the ball and attacking when they are. Their location on the pitch should not matter as we know teams can break form one end to the other and score in 10 seconds.

I dont think what happened was "unfair" as for me both handballs were accidental (was it 0.5 seconds from it hitting Silvas arm to Trent's). City had plenty of time to defend the situation after the incident and it was their poor defending which caused the goal. If play had been stopped at the time and reviewed, I think a penalty to City would have been very harsh.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 11, 2019)

I think Arnold's arm was in a more 'unnatural position' and Silva's wasn't. But you would understandably feel very hard done by as a Liverpool fan or player if the Silva handball isn't given and the penalty was. And I agree that if Arnold doesn't hand ball it, the ball goes to Sterling and he scores, then the goal is ruled out through VAR because it cannot touch an attacker's hand in the build up to a goal full stop in the new rules.

In summary then - it's a minefield. It's about as close to the chicken and the egg as you can get with a football decision.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 11, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Does the double jeopardy rule count for deliberate handball? So for example the Suarez handball for Uraguay  in the World Cup where he punched it off the line in the last minute would now only be a yellow card?
		
Click to expand...

Not sure under FIFA rules, but will be under premiership rules as it was thought that a red card and a penalty was too much punishment. It changed 2-3 years ago iirc.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 11, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			I'd say someone is defending when their team is not in possession of the ball and attacking when they are. Their location on the pitch should not matter as we know teams can break form one end to the other and score in 10 seconds.

I dont think what happened was "unfair" as for me both handballs were accidental (was it 0.5 seconds from it hitting Silvas arm to Trent's). City had plenty of time to defend the situation after the incident and it was their poor defending which caused the goal. If play had been stopped at the time and reviewed, I think a penalty to City would have been very harsh.
		
Click to expand...

Good post, I would only add they only took a few seconds to review the handballs yesterday, last saturday at Goodison it took over 3 minutes and 24 replays to decide Alliâ€™s handball above his head wasnâ€™t a penalty as he was under pressure from an attacker, then there is the 3 1/2 minutes for the Sheff Utd offside by a big toe.
Yes some decisions are that quick to resolve, itâ€™s the inconsistency that is frustrating everyone.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 11, 2019)

FWIW - I think we may have dodged a bullet yesterday, but there is a big thing in play that we are guessing at (mainly because the rules arent as clear these days).

Due to the different application of the rules as to when an attacker handles a ball (whether intentional or not) and the difference to when a defender does (silhouette, arm position, speed of ball, reaction time etc) allied to the passage of play  - hitting Silv's hand, then TAA's, position of Aguero and Sterling if it hadnt have hit TAAs hand etc, its a minefield.

However, one thing that I think people are seeing what they want to see is hand position - TAA and Silva's were exactly the same. Reaction time was different, granted, but some pundits are talking rubbish (including Kompany) when they say that Silva's was different to Trent's.


----------



## adam6177 (Nov 11, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I think Arnold's arm was in a more 'unnatural position' and Silva's wasn't.
		
Click to expand...

Just out of interest..... where should his arms/hands be for a natural position?

Look at the pohot and note where Aguero, TAA and Lovrens arms/hands are.  Are any of these natural?


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 11, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			Just out of interest..... where should his arms/hands be for a natural position?

Look at the pohot and note where Aguero, TAA and Lovrens arms/hands are.  Are any of these natural?

View attachment 28538

Click to expand...

A photo doesn't do it any justice at all, I posted after watching the incident again on video. Silva's arm is down by his side and it hits the top of his wrist, kind of, while he's running. Arnold's palms are up, arm outstretched and he's moving that right arm upwards towards the ball slightly for some reason.

I will reiterate though that Silva's arms being more 'natural' is now irrelevant since the new rule says _any _handball in the build up to a goal chalks it off. But does that apply in the build up to a penalty? No idea.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 11, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			Just out of interest..... where should his arms/hands be for a natural position?

Look at the pohot and note where Aguero, TAA and Lovrens arms/hands are.  Are any of these natural?

View attachment 28538

Click to expand...

All look fine to me
But letâ€™s be honest, a still frame from a moving scene can be manipulated to show the outcome you want.


----------



## Colonel Bogey (Nov 11, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			Just out of interest..... where should his arms/hands be for a natural position?

Look at the pohot and note where Aguero, TAA and Lovrens arms/hands are.  Are any of these natural?

View attachment 28538

Click to expand...

Who cares? It's handball. Handball is handball. VAR is being over used. 

Anyway. I won money on the game as I backed my Saturday nights drunken prediction and almost predicted the entire match to perfection. 

On football I'm not often wrong and I was right again.


----------



## TheDiablo (Nov 11, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Not sure under FIFA rules, but will be under premiership rules as it was thought that a red card and a penalty was too much punishment. It changed 2-3 years ago iirc.
		
Click to expand...

Not strictly correct

Its an IFAB law, meaning there's very little from for PGMOL and/or the Prem to interpret it as they see fit.

Any handball that denies a goalscoring opportunity remains a red card offence. Its where the player attempts to play the ball that the double jeopardy has been removed. 

Who knows what the hell that would've meant if ref had given a penalty against TAA! I 'think' it wouldve been

Penalty given
Reviewed by VAR, they realised that it would be going onto Sterling so upgraded to red. 
However the fact it hit Silvas hand in the buildup would probably have meant a FK to Lpool. Even though in reality the TAA call was a 50/50 and Silvas was never handball, so a FK to Lpool should never have been the outcome pre VAR! 

Absolute chaos. VAR and diving is all anyone talks about now, which is a real shame, especially as the whole point was to eliminate controversy.

Mistaken identity, off the ball misconduct and goal line tech. For everything else it should be binned.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 11, 2019)

garyinderry said:



			Football is a shambles at the minute.  Var is turning into a joke. 

In times gone by. The ref would make the decision and the linesman would assist.  These days they are told not to flag. 

The players these days are not playing to the whistle anymore. They are banking and crying for Var. Aguero should have attempted to smash the ball with his left foot instead of appealing for a penalty. 

If ever there was a decision where the ref needed to view a screen then this was it. 

TAA is a very lucky boy. I dont agree that hands need to be by the players side. I agree they can raise up naturally through movement and the need for balance. Where I believe he is very lucky is that he orientated both palms to face towards the incoming ball. I think it was an instinctive reaction to a ball quickly changing direction.


The nonsense rule of an attacker handling the ball before a goal wouldn't come into play here as  it lead to a potential penalty decision, not a goal.
		
Click to expand...

I was all for VAR at the begining but its being used so poorly

If a mistake can't be seen in 30 seconds it should be ignored. They don't check obvious errors but go over the top for offside 

We deserved to lose at the weekend, we are in terrible form and playing poor

However all I find myself angry at is how poor VAR is, Burnley's first goal came from a corner that was a goal kick , replay of the goal would show hang on that's a goal kick.. whistle goes
. Explain to the captain's 

But no they was allowed to stand

Then you get a goal disallowed for offside that was marginal , almost like the 2 decisions have leveled themseleves out.... That wasn't the point of VAR


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 11, 2019)

Colonel Bogey said:



			Who cares? It's handball. Handball is handball. VAR is being over used.

Anyway. I won money on the game as I backed my Saturday nights drunken prediction and almost predicted the entire match to perfection.

On football I'm not often wrong and I was right again.
		
Click to expand...

Whoosh - handball isnt just handball (generally), which is why the big discussion.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 11, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			Not strictly correct

Its an IFAB law, meaning there's very little from for PGMOL and/or the Prem to interpret it as they see fit.

Any handball that denies a goalscoring opportunity remains a red card offence. Its where the player attempts to play the ball that the double jeopardy has been removed.

Who knows what the hell that would've meant if ref had given a penalty against TAA! I 'think' it wouldve been

Penalty given
Reviewed by VAR, they realised that it would be going onto Sterling so upgraded to red.
However the fact it hit Silvas hand in the buildup would probably have meant a FK to Lpool. Even though in reality the TAA call was a 50/50 and Silvas was never handball, so a FK to Lpool should never have been the outcome pre VAR!

Absolute chaos. VAR and diving is all anyone talks about now, which is a real shame, especially as the whole point was to eliminate controversy.

Mistaken identity, off the ball misconduct and goal line tech. For everything else it should be binned.
		
Click to expand...

Surely it then still comes under the subjective interpretation then on the double jeopardy side of things. Do you have the rule/interpretations applicable?


----------



## TheDiablo (Nov 11, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Surely it then still comes under the subjective interpretation then on the double jeopardy side of things. Do you have the rule/interpretations applicable?
		
Click to expand...

I agree there should be some subjectivity, a red in that scenario would be ridiculous. But if they deemed Sterling to have been denied an obvious gs opp then it wouldve had to be under current laws.

Handball is handball, and excluded from the double jeopardy rule, I don't know the exact law but should be easy to find with a quick Google.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 11, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			I agree there should be some subjectivity, a red in that scenario would be ridiculous. But if they deemed Sterling to have been denied an obvious gs opp then it wouldve had to be under current laws.

Handball is handball, and excluded from the double jeopardy rule, I don't know the exact law but should be easy to find with a quick Google.
		
Click to expand...

Its okay, I'll ask a man City fan, they'll know by now.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			Not strictly correct

Its an IFAB law, meaning there's very little from for PGMOL and/or the Prem to interpret it as they see fit.

Any handball that denies a goalscoring opportunity remains a red card offence. Its where the player attempts to play the ball that the double jeopardy has been removed.

Who knows what the hell that would've meant if ref had given a penalty against TAA! I 'think' it wouldve been

Penalty given
Reviewed by VAR, they realised that it would be going onto Sterling so upgraded to red.
However the fact it hit Silvas hand in the buildup would probably have meant a FK to Lpool. Even though in reality the TAA call was a 50/50 and Silvas was never handball, so a FK to Lpool should never have been the outcome pre VAR!

*Absolute chaos. VAR and diving is all anyone talks about now, which is a real shame, especially as the whole point was to eliminate controversy.

Mistaken identity, off the ball misconduct and goal line tech. For everything else it should be binned.*

Click to expand...

The whole incident is a mess and I agree with the last two paragraphs 

Clattenburg was saying that the referee got the decision right but for the wrong reasons 

Silvas handball was the start of it all which for me was the reason the TAA handball happened


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The whole incident is a mess and I agree with the last two paragraphs

Clattenburg was saying that the referee got the decision right but for the wrong reasons

Silvas handball was the start of it all which for me was the reason the TAA handball happened
		
Click to expand...

Sorry Phil, but Silvaâ€™s handball was accidental, the question over TAA is whether it was intentional, I get itâ€™s frustrating but Iâ€™ve not seen anywhere or anyone question whether Silvaâ€™s handball was intentional as well.

And without making this about us, wasnâ€™t Gomes broken leg a result of Son making no attempt to play the ball, in that case I was told accidents happen and both were unrelated.


----------



## garyinderry (Nov 11, 2019)

Clattenburg seems to be just making up rules.  He believes TAA intentionally handles the ball but because it accidentally ricocheted to him from another players hand he wouldn't award the penalty.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 11, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Its okay, I'll ask a man City fan, they'll know by now. 

Click to expand...

Dont ask me ave not seen it. Had other things to do yesterday. However VAR got it wrong ðŸ‘ðŸ˜ŠðŸ¤£
That aside, more pages on the complications of VAR then the actual game itself. That in itself is wrong. Me al be saving over Â£1k end of the season by not re newing season tickets.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 11, 2019)

Can we just go back to the Mane sending off against City for that "dangerous tackle"?
It's all subjective, and sometimes it goes your way other times it doesn't. Unless you have computers running the system there will always be those subjective events that can be argued over ad infinitum.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 11, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Looking at that video shouldn't they be taking line from the edge of the penalty area rather than the cut of the grass. When the image moves to the left you can see that the line is not parallel to the edge of the area and needs to be rotated clockwise to match the 18 yard line.
		
Click to expand...

I think thatâ€™s got something to do with the curvature of the lens in the camera.
Canâ€™t remember the term for it.
But the jist is ,straight lines start to curve as they get to the edges.
You see it a lot on TV Big Ben looks like the leaning tower of Pisa on the news sometimes.
If the camera is not right on line with the ball it can distort lines.
You canâ€™t see it on a moving picture but can on stills.


----------



## adam6177 (Nov 11, 2019)

From Sky sports:

*DERMOT'S VERDICT: *I don't think it's a penalty. 

*DERMOT SAYS: *This incident has to be an on-field decision, as Oliver has the best view.
There's an angle where the referee makes the decision, we don't need to talk about the VAR, the on-field referee makes the decision. Straight away, he says no penalty. He sees the speed of the ball and he sees it hit Alexander-Arnold on the arm. I think he's got the best view of everybody - he's an amazing athlete to keep up with play.

Remember, a ball striking an arm isn't a penalty. Oliver will have communicated with the VAR that the ball came too quickly at Alexander-Arnold - once Oliver makes that call, then VAR will never ever get involved. If you asked 100 neutral football fans about the decision, you'd have a split vote. There would not be a majority. Even if the referee had come over to the pitch-side monitor, he wouldn't have reversed his decision.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 11, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			From Sky sports:

*DERMOT'S VERDICT: *I don't think it's a penalty.

*DERMOT SAYS: *This incident has to be an on-field decision, as Oliver has the best view.
There's an angle where the referee makes the decision, we don't need to talk about the VAR, the on-field referee makes the decision. Straight away, he says no penalty. He sees the speed of the ball and he sees it hit Alexander-Arnold on the arm. I think he's got the best view of everybody - he's an amazing athlete to keep up with play.

Remember, a ball striking an arm isn't a penalty. Oliver will have communicated with the VAR that the ball came too quickly at Alexander-Arnold - once Oliver makes that call, then VAR will never ever get involved. If you asked 100 neutral football fans about the decision, you'd have a split vote. There would not be a majority. Even if the referee had come over to the pitch-side monitor, he wouldn't have reversed his decision.
		
Click to expand...

Thats that then ,Dermot has spoken!!!


----------



## Bazzatron (Nov 11, 2019)

Just use the pitch side monitors ffs.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 11, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			Just use the pitch side monitors ffs.
		
Click to expand...

They should do. I don't even think we need the idiots sitting in Stockley Park watching it, they're not refereeing the game so they don't have the correct context for incidents. The ref should decide if he didn't have a clear view, then jog over to the screen at the side of the pitch where it will be shown to him from a better angle. Then he makes the decision from that, shouldn't take more than a minute. This goes for offsides as well - stop fannying about drawing lines all over it and working out where people's shoulders and armpits are - just let the ref have a look from the correct angle and he can say if they're level or not. I don't know why it has been overcomplicated to such a stupid degree.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Sorry Phil, but Silvaâ€™s handball was accidental, the question over TAA is whether it was intentional, I get itâ€™s frustrating but Iâ€™ve not seen anywhere or anyone question whether Silvaâ€™s handball was intentional as well.

And without making this about us, wasnâ€™t Gomes broken leg a result of Son making no attempt to play the ball, in that case I was told accidents happen and both were unrelated.
		
Click to expand...

For me the ball hits their hands in the same way - Silvas arm was out and maybe a bit closer but even if accidental itâ€™s made an impact on the way the play went.

If City has scored from that handball then it would have been cancelled , so should the penalty have been given when they have gained an advantage from the handball ?

I really think they got the right call


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 11, 2019)

Can't understand the point of this debate. 

Should it have been a penalty?
Definitely IMO

Would Man City have scored from the penalty?
Probably 

Would the final result have been different in that case?
With City's defence and lack of pressing, not  a hope in hell. Liverpool would still 
have won as they had far too much pace for City to be able to deal with. 

Should we scrap VAR?
Definitely, after all it has failed as there are still controversial and disputed decisions 
just as previously.
Some decisions, such as ball in or out of play and goal line calls are objective but others, including offside since it requires judgement of precisely when the ball was played,  are not. 
There will always be good and bad decisions just as players will have good  and bad moments.


----------



## Fish (Nov 11, 2019)

Did you know both Liverpool and Everton havenâ€™t beaten any team above them in the league.

This is because itâ€™s impossible for Liverpool to beat a team above them as they are top of the league and itâ€™s impossible for Everton to beat a team above them because they are shite ðŸ˜œ


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 11, 2019)

BTW, wasn't there a situation in the 2nd half when a City players boot was head height with Mane (and close) and the ref waved play on, or am I imagining it?


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 11, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			BTW, wasn't there a situation in the 2nd half when a City players boot was head height with Mane (and close) and the ref waved play on, or am I imagining it?
		
Click to expand...

There was also  a challenge by Mane on a City player the equivalent of Son's on Gomes but fortunately without the same outcome. 

Fans will always see what they want to see.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 11, 2019)

Fish said:



			Did you know both Liverpool and Everton havenâ€™t beaten any team above them in the league.

This is because itâ€™s impossible for Liverpool to beat a team above them as they are top of the league and itâ€™s impossible for Everton to beat a team above them because they are shite ðŸ˜œ
		
Click to expand...

Fragger, some red has hacked Fish's account .


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 11, 2019)

Fish said:



			Did you know both Liverpool and Everton havenâ€™t beaten any team above them in the league.

This is because itâ€™s impossible for Liverpool to beat a team above them as they are top of the league and itâ€™s impossible for Everton to beat a team above them because they are shite ðŸ˜œ
		
Click to expand...

Wolves are 8th, great joke though.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			For me the ball hits their hands in the same way - Silvas arm was out and maybe a bit closer but even if accidental itâ€™s made an impact on the way the play went.

If City has scored from that handball then it would have been cancelled , so should the penalty have been given when they have gained an advantage from the handball ?

I really think they got the right call
		
Click to expand...

The decision going either way would of been controversial without Fabinho scoring, I think itâ€™s stood out more because of that. Neither manager would of been happy.

Was very much in favour of VAR, hate it the way itâ€™s currently being used.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			The decision going either way would of been controversial without Fabinho scoring, I think itâ€™s stood out more because of that. Neither manager would of been happy.

Was very much in favour of VAR, hate it the way itâ€™s currently being used.
		
Click to expand...

I was always against VAR but it seemed to do well in the World Cup during the summer and in the CL - but itâ€™s being horrific for the Prem and itâ€™s down to implementation and just look who is in charge of it - one of the worst refs in Prem history

In other news - seems we might be looking to get Fraser from Bournemouth during Jan - good signing


----------



## Slime (Nov 11, 2019)

VAR : Vague and Ridiculous.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			For me the ball hits their hands in the same way - Silvas arm was out and maybe a bit closer but even if accidental itâ€™s made an impact on the way the play went.

If City has scored from that handball then it would have been cancelled , so should the penalty have been given when they have gained an advantage from the handball ?

I really think they got the right call
		
Click to expand...

Of course you would say that.

I think it was a stonewall penalty, TAA would have been aware of Sterling behind him and he moves his arm toward the ball clear as day.


----------



## Dando (Nov 11, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Of course you would say that.

I think it was a stonewall penalty, TAA would have been aware of Sterling behind him and he moves his arm toward the ball clear as day.
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ¤£ðŸ˜‚ðŸ¤£ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Of course you would say that.

I think it was a stonewall penalty, TAA would have been aware of Sterling behind him and he moves his arm toward the ball clear as day.
		
Click to expand...

Are you ready to take the bet ? I see you didnâ€™t answer when you said it was foolish to write off Arsenal in top 4

Oh and other non Liverpool people have also agreed that it wasnâ€™t a penalty including crucially - the ref , the VAR ref , and a couple of other refs.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 11, 2019)

VAR panel wonâ€™t overrule on pitch ref. 89 out of 90 penalty decisions went with on pitch ref this year so that says it all.

Either we have the most amazing refs or VAR just agrees with the subjectivity of on pitch decisions.

Some refs would easily have blown for a pen yesterday itâ€™s just one of those that could have gone any way.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are you ready to take the bet ? I see you didnâ€™t answer when you said it was foolish to write off Arsenal in top 4

Oh and other non Liverpool people have also agreed that it wasnâ€™t a penalty including crucially - the ref , the VAR ref , and a couple of other refs.
		
Click to expand...

I would get 5/1 with the bookies, evens is not great value tbf.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			I would get 5/1 with the bookies, evens is not great value tbf.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s not about value itâ€™s about the charity - if Arsenal get top 4 Iâ€™ll give Â£20 to H4H , if they donâ€™t you do 
Remember you implied i would be on drugs to write them off from top 4


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 11, 2019)

There wasnt this fuss about handball last week when the Villa defender  pulled off a great save, in fact it was barely mentioned. 

Anyway thank god for international week ðŸ™„


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 11, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			VAR panel wonâ€™t overrule on pitch ref. 89 out of 90 penalty decisions went with on pitch ref this year so that says it all.

Either we have the most amazing refs or VAR just agrees with the subjectivity of on pitch decisions.

Some refs would easily have blown for a pen yesterday *itâ€™s just one of those that could have gone any way.*

Click to expand...

Obviously not stonewall then.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 11, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			There was also  a challenge by Mane on a City player the equivalent of Son's on Gomes but fortunately without the same outcome. 

Fans will always see what they want to see.
		
Click to expand...

A bit of a difference between a head high tackle and an ankle tap.No?


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 11, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Obviously not stonewall then.

Click to expand...

Stonewall in my world. Not in yours.ðŸ‘


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 11, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Stonewall in my world. Not in yours.ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

You should of said you meant on Fantasy Island. Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Stonewall in my world. Not in yours.ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™m guessing you donâ€™t want the bet then and not actually that confident Arsenal will make top 4


----------



## fundy (Nov 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Iâ€™m guessing you donâ€™t want the bet then and not actually that confident Arsenal will make top 4
		
Click to expand...


If we fired Emery tomorrow Id take the bet, sadly it seems he gets until xmas at least if not the end of the season


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Iâ€™m guessing you donâ€™t want the bet then and not actually that confident Arsenal will make top 4
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™ll take the bet as itâ€™s for HFH ðŸ‘


----------



## Hobbit (Nov 11, 2019)

fundy said:



			If we fired Emery tomorrow Id take the bet, sadly it seems he gets until xmas at least if not the end of the season 

Click to expand...

If he is being considered for the sack it should be now, not after Christmas. If they brought someone in in the next couple of weeks they might achieve something in the Jan transfer window.


----------



## GG26 (Nov 11, 2019)

Weâ€™re only 14 points from safety with 26 matches to go ðŸ˜€.


----------



## Fish (Nov 11, 2019)

fundy said:



			If we fired Emery tomorrow Id take the bet, sadly it seems he gets until xmas at least if not the end of the season 

Click to expand...

Iâ€™ll give you 5/1 ðŸ˜ðŸ’™


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 11, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			A bit of a difference between a head high tackle and an ankle tap.No?
		
Click to expand...


Only if you see the former as a head high tackle.

Like I said as committed fans we all tend to see incidents differently to those without "a dog in the fight".


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 11, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			Only if you see the former as a head high tackle.

Like I said as committed fans we all tend to see incidents differently to those without "a dog in the fight".
		
Click to expand...

Yep you're right, but I havent seen the full match yet, which was why I asked did I imagine it or was it not as bad/dangerous as it looked at the match.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 11, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep you're right, but I havent seen the full match yet, which was why I asked did I imagine it or was it not as bad/dangerous as it looked at the match.
		
Click to expand...

Watched it in full and I honestly can't recall a single "Ooh! That's nasty!" moment from either side.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 12, 2019)

What do we think of Southgate's decision https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50383693


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 12, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			What do we think of Southgate's decision https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50383693

Click to expand...

A rest for razza


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 12, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			What do we think of Southgate's decision https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50383693

Click to expand...

Strong management, good to see. Easier to make the decision when playing against Montenegro but still he has taken a stand.


----------



## Slime (Nov 12, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			What do we think of Southgate's decision https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50383693

Click to expand...

I can't give an opinion because I have absolutely no idea what went on, Southgate should keep it that way, too.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 12, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Strong management, good to see. Easier to make the decision when playing against Montenegro but still he has taken a stand.
		
Click to expand...

I agree and I see what Slime is saying about keeping it behind closed doors. Wonder if he would have taken such a brave stance had it been a must win game or against one of the top sides. I was thinking (and again don't know what actually happened) whether there would have been an argument to deal with both parties equally and drop both? Either way good to see a manager setting a strong example. Hope it continues


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 12, 2019)

On purely football reasons it seems silly to drop our best player, and apparently Gomez was winding him up as well. But I guess Sterling must have got too aggy so Southgate has dropped him as punishment. We'll probably still win so whatever. But I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't even start Gomez.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			On purely football reasons it seems silly to drop our best player, and *apparently Gomez was winding him up as well. *But I guess Sterling must have got too aggy so Southgate has dropped him as punishment. We'll probably still win so whatever. But I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't even start Gomez.
		
Click to expand...

According to who ?

The sad thing about this all is that itâ€™s headline news , pathetic but seems to some up modern media these days , it shouldnâ€™t have even been made public knowledge.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 12, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			According to who ?

The sad thing about this all is that itâ€™s headline news , pathetic but seems to some up modern media these days , it shouldnâ€™t have even been made public knowledge.
		
Click to expand...

The radio this morning said the pair  had exchanges greetings and had shook hands. Gomez was sat down and Sterling had come behind him and asked him if he was still the â€œbig manâ€ and had put his hands around Gomez neck. 
They also said it was a team choice to drop Sterling.
Whilst I agree  with keeping things private, in this case being the national team you just know there would have been questions just as our Spurs fan says â€œheâ€™s the best player we haveâ€ in the end it would have come out, so perhaps getting it out there before they start chasing the story is a good thing.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 12, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			According to who ?

The sad thing about this all is that itâ€™s headline news , pathetic but seems to some up modern media these days , it shouldnâ€™t have even been made public knowledge.
		
Click to expand...

Would seem Gomez reacted to Sterling https://www.skysports.com/football/...e-gomez-man-city-midfielder-dropped-after-row


----------



## Bazzatron (Nov 12, 2019)

I'd want people who actually cared in my dressing room, not those that weren't bothered that they'd just lost a huge game. Quick straightner and get on with it.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 12, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			I'd want people who actually cared in my dressing room, not those that weren't bothered that they'd just lost a huge game. Quick straightner and get on with it.
		
Click to expand...

On the pitch I would agree .
But once you are down the tunnel itâ€™s over.
Childish antics out of Pep dosnt help showing a very immature attitude to losing.
Now they are on the same side just shows they are spoilt brats.
Gomez May have wound him up he may not!
But thought Sterling had matured .
But weâ€™re speculating.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 12, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			According to who ?

The sad thing about this all is that itâ€™s headline news , pathetic but seems to some up modern media these days , it shouldnâ€™t have even been made public knowledge.
		
Click to expand...

I have heard a different account now. 
https://www.skysports.com/football/...land-row-what-happened-at-st-george8217s-park 
If that's accurate then dropping Sterling is probably the right call.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 12, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I have heard a different account now.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...land-row-what-happened-at-st-george8217s-park
If that's accurate then dropping Sterling is probably the right call.
		
Click to expand...

Yes if thatâ€™s true Sterling is a little argumentative p...k.


----------



## rksquire (Nov 12, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Would seem Gomez reacted to Sterling https://www.skysports.com/football/...e-gomez-man-city-midfielder-dropped-after-row

Click to expand...

Wouldn't appear to be any winding up on behalf of Gomez - all in Sterling's little mind.  He should definitely be punished - a temporary transfer so he sees out the season at Manchester United should be punishment enough!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 12, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			On the pitch I would agree .
But once you are down the tunnel itâ€™s over.
Childish antics out of Pep dosnt help showing a very immature attitude to losing.
Now they are on the same side just shows they are spoilt brats.
Gomez May have wound him up he may not!
But thought Sterling had matured .
But weâ€™re speculating.
		
Click to expand...

Seriously! A lot of managers â€œcoolingâ€ down would help, Pep isnâ€™t alone in this and the media could help by not asking Managers to fake gestures to the crowd.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 12, 2019)

Hey Sawtooth, Neil Swarbrick, head of VAR has confirmed the "absolute stonewall penalty" not given at Anfield on Sunday was the correct decision.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 12, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Hey Sawtooth, Neil Swarbrick, head of VAR has confirmed the "absolute stonewall penalty" not given at Anfield on Sunday was the correct decision.
		
Click to expand...

He did also say that he'd give VAR a mark of 7/10 for how it's working so far so it's possible that he's delusional.


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 12, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Hey Sawtooth, Neil Swarbrick, head of VAR has confirmed the "absolute stonewall penalty" not given at Anfield on Sunday was the correct decision.
		
Click to expand...

So one ref backing up another, who'd have thought it ðŸ¤”ðŸ¤£.
FWIW, I thought the City pen shout on Sunday was a far better one than the Liverpool pen given in the CL final.


----------



## Bazzatron (Nov 12, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			On the pitch I would agree .
But once you are down the tunnel itâ€™s over.
Childish antics out of Pep dosnt help showing a very immature attitude to losing.
Now they are on the same side just shows they are spoilt brats.
Gomez May have wound him up he may not!
But thought Sterling had matured .
But weâ€™re speculating.
		
Click to expand...

Of course, all pure speculation but how many times do you think this happens in a dressing room? Get it sorted and get over it.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 12, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			So one ref backing up another, who'd have thought it ðŸ¤”ðŸ¤£.
FWIW, I thought the City pen shout on Sunday was a far better one than the Liverpool pen given in the CL final.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah you're right, it's like police forces backing each other up ðŸ˜‰

In fairness his explanation was the ref seen it and called it no pen so VAR wouldnt suggest changing it as it's a "subjective" decision. He also said Sheffield Uniteds offside was offside. 

The positive to this is at least we're getting answers as opposed to silence from refs.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 12, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Hey Sawtooth, Neil Swarbrick, head of VAR has confirmed the "absolute stonewall penalty" not given at Anfield on Sunday was the correct decision.
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s brill Stuart thanks, my faith in VAR has been restored. ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜†ðŸ˜œ


----------



## Slime (Nov 12, 2019)

rksquire said:



			Wouldn't appear to be any winding up on behalf of Gomez - all in Sterling's little mind.  He should definitely be punished - *a temporary transfer so he sees out the season at Manchester United should be punishment enough!*

Click to expand...

Yup, I'd go for that.


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 12, 2019)

Obviously Iâ€™m speculating but I would hazard a guess thereâ€™s more in this story.
To suspend Sterling for one game would suggest that.
I would also as others have said thereâ€™s no way he would have been suspended if we had to win a game to qualify for a major tournament,it would have been sorted in house.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I have heard a different account now.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...land-row-what-happened-at-st-george8217s-park
If that's accurate then dropping Sterling is probably the right call.
		
Click to expand...

So what this ultimately shows is that people shouldnâ€™t believe jungle rumours and wait for the actual facts to appear - save fingers being pointed at the incorrect people

My overall point stands - how is this main headline news at the end of the day 

Player gets beat on Sunday , arrives Monday still a bit angry , said player has a pop at another player , handbags , senior player steps in , shake hands , sorted like adults , nothing more needs to be done. 

Sometimes Southgate needs to stop being the middle lane yes man and just sort it out without it arriving outside the group and then get on with it - game bans and being kicked out of the squad ?!


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 12, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So what this ultimately shows is that people shouldnâ€™t believe jungle rumours and wait for the actual facts to appear - save fingers being pointed at the incorrect people

My overall point stands - how is this main headline news at the end of the day

Player gets beat on Sunday , arrives Monday still a bit angry , said player has a pop at another player , handbags , senior player steps in , shake hands , sorted like adults , nothing more needs to be done.

Sometimes Southgate needs to stop being the middle lane yes man and just sort it out without it arriving outside the group and then get on with it - game bans and being kicked out of the squad ?!
		
Click to expand...

I think what it should you was that Hendo was doing a damned good job as the captain, and sorting things out.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 12, 2019)

Maybe Rebecca Vardy stopped by and saw it all happen.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 12, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Maybe Rebecca Vardy stopped by and saw it all happen. 

Click to expand...

More likely she whispered something in RS ear and kicked it all off ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 12, 2019)

Seems that Rio Ferdinand says Gareth got it wrong.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 12, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			More likely she whispered something in RS ear and kicked it all off ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Can she bend down that far?


----------



## Dando (Nov 12, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Seems that Rio Ferdinand says Gareth got it wrong.
		
Click to expand...

not sure Rio has any understanding of whatâ€™s right or wrong if his love life is anything to go by


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 12, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			A rest for razza
		
Click to expand...

He should go for a knock, rumour has it he's a scratch golfer.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 12, 2019)

rksquire said:



			Wouldn't appear to be any winding up on behalf of Gomez - all in Sterling's little mind.  He should definitely be punished - a temporary transfer so he sees out the season at Manchester United should be punishment enough!
		
Click to expand...

Jeez it wasnâ€™t that bad.


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 12, 2019)

Dando said:



			not sure Rio has any understanding of whatâ€™s right or wrong if his love life is anything to go
Ridiculous statement
		
Click to expand...


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 12, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Seriously! A lot of managers â€œcoolingâ€ down would help, Pep isnâ€™t alone in this and the media could help by not asking Managers to fake gestures to the crowd.
		
Click to expand...

Donâ€™t think Pep was faking Sunday.


----------



## Dando (Nov 12, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Donâ€™t think Pep was faking Sunday.
		
Click to expand...

youâ€™re right, heâ€™s always knob


----------



## Dando (Nov 12, 2019)

Is it?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 12, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Donâ€™t think Pep was faking Sunday.
		
Click to expand...

So you condemn him as childish and immature for showing emotion?


----------



## TheDiablo (Nov 12, 2019)

Dando said:



			not sure Rio has any understanding of whatâ€™s right or wrong if his love life is anything to go by
		
Click to expand...

What a pathetic post. Is that what the forum is now? Absolute gutter. Might as well go to the Daily Mail comment section.


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 12, 2019)

Dando said:



			Is it?
		
Click to expand...

It has no relevance.
Rio has been through a lot personally losing his wife to cancer and leaving 3 kids without a mum.
Thinking his love life will effect his ability to have an opinion is wrong imo


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 12, 2019)

I think Gareth Southgate has made a massive boo boo regarding Sterling 
Sky sports reporting the England team are one big family.
Reporting his senior players wanted Sterling punished could have a negative effect.
Could have and should have dealt with it in house.
Only time will tell


----------



## Wolf (Nov 12, 2019)

Personally think Southgate has got it wrong. Regardless of what the incident was that occurred he should have dealt with it in house and publicly saying senior players wanted him punished doesn't help display the idea of a unified squad to potential opponents.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 12, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			What a pathetic post. Is that what the forum is now? Absolute gutter. Might as well go to the Daily Mail comment section.
		
Click to expand...

His last 3 posts have been rammel.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 12, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			It has no relevance.
Rio has been through a lot personally losing his wife to cancer and leaving 3 kids without a mum.
Thinking his love life will effect his ability to have an opinion is wrong imo
		
Click to expand...

IS the correct answer


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 12, 2019)

Southgate like a bloody politician 
Saying about all the rumours Out there but not telling us what really happened when he clearly knows


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 12, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			So you condemn him as childish and immature for showing emotion?

Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s not emotion heâ€™s a knob playing to the cameras of the media you criticised!


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 12, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thatâ€™s not emotion heâ€™s a knob playing to the cameras of the media you criticised!
		
Click to expand...

On the other hand I assume you are quite happy with Jurgen's touchline histrionics and phoney behaviour.

Any number of managers get overexcited, in the  ear of the fourth official and so on but if you accept it from your own manager then you cannot complain about others.

Personally I find it rather amusing if sometimes a little annoying whichever manager it is but I don't think any one of them is worse or better than the others


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thatâ€™s not emotion heâ€™s a knob playing to the cameras of the media you criticised!
		
Click to expand...

I would rather a manager shows emotion and heart on the sideline - looks like they care 

Pep did nothing more than what we have seen from Klopp


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 12, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			On the other hand I assume you are quite happy with Jurgen's touchline histrionics and phoney behaviour.
		
Click to expand...

They all do it itâ€™s part of the panto now.
Klopp is just the same .
The only one I havnt really seen  moaning is the Sheffield manager he just tells it like it is!
You should never assume what people are happy with!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 12, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I would rather a manager shows emotion and heart on the sideline - looks like they care

Pep did nothing more than what we have seen from Klopp
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s right he didnâ€™t.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 12, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			I think Gareth Southgate has made a massive boo boo regarding Sterling
Sky sports reporting the England team are one big family.
Reporting his senior players wanted Sterling punished could have a negative effect.
Could have and should have dealt with it in house.
Only time will tell
		
Click to expand...

All he had to do was not pick him .


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 12, 2019)

It all sounds a bit handbags so for me Gareth has hugely overreacted and some of his comments should have been kept private. If senior players wanted Sterling dropped and punished then that speaks of anything but a united squad. Still, Sterling gets a rest and I seriously hope Gareth lives to regret his actions and we don't score. Of course that's unlikely given the opposition and, like others, I wonder if it would have happened if the opposition and stakes were higher.

Apart from his penalty taking I've always admired Gareth but this has changed that somewhat.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 12, 2019)

AmandaJR said:



			It all sounds a bit handbags so for me Gareth has hugely overreacted and some of his comments should have been kept private. If senior players wanted Sterling dropped and punished then that speaks of anything but a united squad. Still, Sterling gets a rest and I seriously hope Gareth lives to regret his actions and we don't score. Of course that's unlikely given the opposition and, like others, I wonder if it would have happened if the opposition and stakes were higher.

Apart from his penalty taking I've always admired Gareth but this has changed that somewhat.
		
Click to expand...

I think one of the problems now is keeping this sort of thing quiet.
With social media almost everything comes out eventually .
Would he look weak if he didnâ€™t do anything?
So he canâ€™t win , dammed if he does or dosnt.
All we can hope for is the players learn to behave themselves, but we are talking footballers !?


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 12, 2019)

AmandaJR said:



			It all sounds a bit handbags so for me Gareth has hugely overreacted and some of his comments should have been kept private. If senior players wanted Sterling dropped and punished then that speaks of anything but a united squad. Still, Sterling gets a rest and I seriously hope Gareth lives to regret his actions and we don't score. Of course that's unlikely given the opposition and, like others, I wonder if it would have happened if the opposition and stakes were higher.

Apart from his penalty taking I've always admired Gareth but this has changed that somewhat.
		
Click to expand...

What i don't get is apparently they had both made up, said there piece and it was done and dusted. Next thing its blown up into this. am with you, i think Mr Southgate has handled it poorly. What exactly in sending Sterling home has it actually achieved.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 12, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			What i don't get is apparently they had both made up, said there piece and it was done and dusted. Next thing its blown up into this. am with you, i think Mr Southgate has handled it poorly. What exactly in sending Sterling home has it actually achieved.
		
Click to expand...

Well it gives the lad a rest!
I donâ€™t think the whole story has been told ,you would not send your best striker in the form of his life home for a schoolboy argument.
There must be more to it.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 12, 2019)

As cc98 says in this day and age there is absolutely no way that the story would not have leaked to the media. 

From that point onwards it would have become a distraction. This way means that it has been dealt with at the outset. 

End of story.


----------



## davemc1 (Nov 12, 2019)

What has happened with Bernado Silvas charge of racism? Itâ€™s been weeks.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 12, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			What has happened with Bernado Silvas charge of racism? Itâ€™s been weeks.
		
Click to expand...

You waiting for City to get the Tâ€™Shirts printed.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 12, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			You waiting for City to get the Tâ€™Shirts printed. 

Click to expand...

mendy has probably already got some printed


----------



## Fish (Nov 12, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well it gives the lad a rest!
I donâ€™t think the whole story has been told ,you would not send your best striker in the form of his life home for a schoolboy argument.
There must be more to it.
		
Click to expand...

 reading more reports, it would seem Sterling just couldnâ€™t let it go accusing Gomez and asking him if he was now â€˜the bigger manâ€™, then launched at him putting him in a head lock scratching his face in the tussle that sent food and tables everywhere! 

however, Iâ€™ve just read that the decision to not select him has been revoked after senior players approached Southgate and stated the decision not to play him was wrong and and asked him to reconsider, which he has!

what a friggin shambles!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 13, 2019)

Fish said:



			reading more reports, it would seem Sterling just couldnâ€™t let it go accusing Gomez and asking him if he was now â€˜the bigger manâ€™, then launched at him putting him in a head lock scratching his face in the tussle that sent food and tables everywhere!

however, Iâ€™ve just read that the decision to not select him has been revoked after senior players approached Southgate and stated the decision not to play him was wrong and and asked him to reconsider, which he has!

what a friggin shambles!
		
Click to expand...

Well if thatâ€™s true the original decision was correct .
I would send the little pr..k home until he can behave himself.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 13, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well if thatâ€™s true the original decision was correct .
I would send the little pr..k home until he can behave himself.
		
Click to expand...

Its not like sterling to fly off the handle unless something has been said. What? Like i said it was sorted out between the two involved. It should of been left at that, now its all been blown up into this and now he's a little Pr..k. not good at all.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 13, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			now its all been blown up into this and now he's a little Pr..k. not good at all.
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps all he has done is reinforce the impression some may have had of him.......


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 13, 2019)

Takes some "tekkers" to miss from here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/50399568


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 13, 2019)

Re Sterling, i find it very hard to judge Southgates actions as I, like the rest of us,  dont know exactly what went on. I've read 4 different versions of the incident....

If Southgate thinks dropping him for a meaningless qualifier is the right action then nobody should really have a go at him. He's the manager and has to make  decisions based on how he see's fit, irrespective of whether the media, city England fans think it's right.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 13, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			What has happened with Bernado Silvas charge of racism? Itâ€™s been weeks.
		
Click to expand...

Brushed under the carpet, it was only "bantz" ðŸ™„


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 13, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Takes some "tekkers" to miss from here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/50399568

Click to expand...

That bobbled up quite a lot to be fair to him. (Spoken as someone who's missed a few sitters in the past..)


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 13, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			What has happened with Bernado Silvas charge of racism? Itâ€™s been weeks.
		
Click to expand...

Just announced. 

50k fine and one match ban.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 13, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Re Sterling, i find it very hard to judge Southgates actions as I, like the rest of us,  dont know exactly what went on. I've read 4 different versions of the incident....

If Southgate thinks dropping him for a meaningless qualifier is the right action then nobody should really have a go at him. He's the manager and has to make  decisions based on how he see's fit, irrespective of whether the media, city England fans think it's right.
		
Click to expand...

Most interesting thing surrounding England in years. 

I may tune in next week.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 13, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Just announced.

50k fine and one match ban.
		
Click to expand...

Davey mac - investigative journalist extraordinaire.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 13, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Davey mac - investigative journalist extraordinaire. 

Click to expand...

Guaranteed a goodnightâ€™s sleep tonight now heâ€™s cracked the case.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 13, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Re Sterling, i find it very hard to judge Southgates actions as I, like the rest of us,  dont know exactly what went on. I've read 4 different versions of the incident....

If Southgate thinks dropping him for a meaningless qualifier is the right action then nobody should really have a go at him. He's the manager and has to make  decisions based on how he see's fit, irrespective of whether the media, city England fans think it's right.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think Southgate can be criticised for his actions, whenit seems obvious he is trying to get ahead of the social media event this was always going to bring out. He was damned if he did nothing, and damned if he tried to stay ahead and control what he could.
The jerkoff was Sterling and his actions.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 13, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Perhaps all he has done is reinforce the impression some may have had of him.......
		
Click to expand...

I thought he had matured under Peps guidance .
His football has but his behaviour ( depending on what story you believe) is open to question.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 13, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Just announced.

50k fine and one match ban.
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s a bit steep for a bit of Bantz.
Or is it lenient for racism?


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 13, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thatâ€™s a bit steep for a bit of Bantz.
Or is it lenient for racism?
		
Click to expand...

Very.

I didnt realise theres different levels of racism ðŸ¤·â€â™‚ï¸


----------



## Slime (Nov 13, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thatâ€™s a bit steep for a bit of Bantz.
Or is it lenient for racism?
		
Click to expand...

It's steep for a bit of bantz.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 13, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Very.

I didnt realise theres different levels of racism ðŸ¤·â€â™‚ï¸
		
Click to expand...

Well John Barnes has just stated on Radio 5, if I understood him correctly, that he doesn't consider it to be racist. 

Indeed it would seem that he is suggesting that those who complained are themselves doing so as they consider  black skin to be a negative.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 13, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Very.

I didnt realise theres different levels of racism ðŸ¤·â€â™‚ï¸
		
Click to expand...

Was it a tweet of him comparing Mendy to a cartoon character ?! Was it really racist ?

I donâ€™t know how we could judge it racist ? Was anyone offended by it ? Did Mendy complain that he felt it was racist 

Itâ€™s a very strange one and Iâ€™m not sure if there is a right answer 

And how can a bunch of white men in suits in the FA decide what is racist to a black man ? 

It certainly didnâ€™t seem to be a insult based on his race ðŸ¤”


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 13, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			Well John Barnes has just stated on Radio 5, if I understood him correctly, that he doesn't consider it to be racist.

Indeed it would seem that he is suggesting that those who complained are themselves doing so as they consider  black skin to be a negative.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe being simplistic but if what he tweeted was not racist why has he been fined and banned.?


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 13, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Maybe being simplistic but if what he tweeted was not racist why has he been fined and banned.?
		
Click to expand...

Because other people felt the need to get offended on behalf of Mendy and as a result Silva was charged.


----------



## davemc1 (Nov 13, 2019)

Ban seems very weak considering Harvey Elliot got a 2 week ban for calling Kane a mong on a private WhatsApp.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 13, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Because other people felt the need to get offended on behalf of Mendy and as a result Silva was charged.
		
Click to expand...

Just because other people might be offended .
They must have spoken to Mendy.
So to fine and ban him there must be something to find him guilty.
Itâ€™s not nice to be accused of this and it seems sometimes people have to prove themselves innocent and not the other way around, not the easiest thing to do .


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 13, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Maybe being simplistic but if what he tweeted was not racist why has he been fined and banned.?
		
Click to expand...

As a white person I don't think that I am in any position to determine if a comment is or isn't racist. 

Without being patronising I would say that John Barnes is far better qualified than me.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 13, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Ban seems very weak considering Harvey Elliot got a 2 week ban for calling Kane a mong on a private WhatsApp.
		
Click to expand...

Are Harvey Elliot and Harry Kane team mates, best friends and known each other for years?
As Iâ€™m sure itâ€™s nothing to do with Elliott being a Lpool player and admitting it was a stupid senseless act and it being leaked on Twitter.
Move on Dave, not everything is about you lot.


----------



## davemc1 (Nov 13, 2019)

Sorry boss, Iâ€™ll make sure I ask you what opinion I should have before I next post ðŸ˜©


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 13, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Sorry boss, Iâ€™ll make sure I ask you what opinion I should have before I next post ðŸ˜©
		
Click to expand...

Nobody sayings that, but itâ€™s not even the same offence, itâ€™s like asking why somebody got done more for speeding than the person drink driving.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 13, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just because other people might be offended .
They must have spoken to Mendy.
So to fine and ban him *there must be something to find him guilty.*
Itâ€™s not nice to be accused of this and it seems sometimes people have to prove themselves innocent and not the other way around, not the easiest thing to do .
		
Click to expand...

Yes. A bunch of elderly white men decided that because the professionally offended got offended that they must be seen to be doing something even though Mendy himself said he had no problem with the original tweet.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 13, 2019)

I'm not sure i go along with this notion that white middle aged can't have an opinion on what should be deemed as racist. Obviously they haven't gone through the same experiences. But surely that helps rule. Out them having a prejudice in making a decision. Surely ruling someone's opinion out based on their skin colour is in itself racist ðŸ¤¯

In this case I think it was more a case or people being offended for the sake of it. But it was a black caricature, which as has been shown in previous cases can be deemed as racist.

Its a minefield. For me though the FA bottled. If they find him guilty of racism then it has to be more than a 1 match ban.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 13, 2019)

If a word or term is rascist, it's rascist no matter what colour of skin the person saying it has.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 13, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I'm not sure i go along with this notion that white middle aged can't have an opinion on what should be deemed as racist. Obviously they haven't gone through the same experiences. But surely that helps rule. Out them having a prejudice in making a decision. Surely ruling someone's opinion out based on their skin colour is in itself racist ðŸ¤¯

In this case I think it was more a case or people being offended for the sake of it. But it was a black caricature, which as has been shown in previous cases can be deemed as racist.

Its a minefield. For me though the FA bottled. If they find him guilty of racism then it has to be more than a 1 match ban.
		
Click to expand...

Probably because the FA accepted it wasnâ€™t sent with any racist intent, the problem seems to be he sent it publicly rather than privately and deleted within 45 minutes, Mendy defended Silva as well.
There was a report on BBC that Choudray of Leics was only fined Â£5,000.00 in the summer for historical posts that did have a racial element.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 13, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Probably because the FA accepted it wasnâ€™t sent with any racist intent, the problem seems to be he sent it publicly rather than privately and deleted within 45 minutes, Mendy defended Silva as well.
*There was a report on BBC that Choudray of Leics was only fined Â£5,000.00 in the summer for historical posts that did have a racial element.*

Click to expand...

Haven't seen that, but two wrongs (the fa) doesn't make it right. 

I get the intent part. I'm not calling for 9 matches. But to take this long, suggests to me that they were simply looking for a solution that would get the least kick back. City accept the one game as its not bad for racism and though baying for blood are happy enough that at least something was done.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 13, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			If a word or term is rascist, it's rascist no matter what colour of skin the person saying it has.
		
Click to expand...

I think we all no one word where that clearly isn't accepted as true....


----------



## Slime (Nov 13, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Maybe being simplistic but *if what he tweeted was not racist why has he been fined and banned.?*

Click to expand...

Pure snowflakery.
I believe Mendy wrote a letter saying that he was not offended by Silva.
I guess his opinion doesn't count for much.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 13, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I'm not sure i go along with this notion that white middle aged can't have an opinion on what should be deemed as racist. Obviously they haven't gone through the same experiences. But surely that helps rule. Out them having a prejudice in making a decision. Surely ruling someone's opinion out based on their skin colour is in itself racist ðŸ¤¯

In this case I think it was more a case or people being offended for the sake of it. But it was a black caricature, which as has been shown in previous cases can be deemed as racist.

Its a minefield. For me though the FA bottled. If they find him guilty of racism then it has to be more than a 1 match ban.
		
Click to expand...

I can only speak from a personal/family  point of view. 

Suffice to say that my daughter in law would be more in agreement with John Barnes on this rather than any white, middle aged golfer.

In my experience many find it borderline racist and certainly patronising when others are  offended on their behalf.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 13, 2019)

So to sum up .
You can say something to someone who dosnt take offence.
But another person nothing to do with it does.
You can be fined and stopped from doing your job.
That just dosnt seem right!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 13, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			So to sum up .
You can say something to someone who dosnt take offence.
But another person nothing to do with it does.
You can be fined and stopped from doing your job.
That just dosnt seem right!
		
Click to expand...

Are you new to the sport of football and the governing body that is the FA and their disciplinary process ?


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 13, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			I can only speak from a personal/family  point of view.

Suffice to say that my daughter in law would be more in agreement with John Barnes on this rather than any white, middle aged golfer.

*In my experience many find it borderline racist and certainly patronising when others are  offended on their behalf.*

Click to expand...

I agree with that in regards to if white people are maybe acting outraged. I just don't think it's right to say that white people can't see something as racist. 

Maybe it's a bit more like that now as everyone wants to be offended so some see something in nothing. But for me, you do t need to have been subject to something to know or at least belive if it's right or wrong. Be that sexism, homophobia or racism.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 13, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree with that in regards to if white people are maybe acting outraged. I just don't think it's right to say that white people can't see something as racist.

Maybe it's a bit more like that now as everyone wants to be offended so some see something in nothing. But for me, you do t need to have been subject to something to know or at least belive if it's right or wrong. Be that sexism, homophobia or racism.
		
Click to expand...

With any prejudice I would need to know the view of the individual or the community in question before I could judge if something is offensive. 

I just don't have their appreciation of context.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 13, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree with that in regards to if white people are maybe acting outraged. I just don't think it's right to say that white people can't see something as racist.

Maybe it's a bit more like that now as everyone wants to be offended so some see something in nothing. But for me, you do t need to have been subject to something to know or at least belive if it's right or wrong. Be that sexism, homophobia or racism.
		
Click to expand...

If Mendy doesnâ€™t find it racist or offensive I donâ€™t understand how the FA can find it offensive on his behalf ?


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 13, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If Mendy doesnâ€™t find it racist or offensive I donâ€™t understand how the FA can find it offensive on his behalf ?
		
Click to expand...

I've not seen the ruling. Just the punishment, have they charged him with offending Mendy officially. Or for simply possibly causing offence. 

If he'd called him the N word and Mendy said it was fine as they said it jokingly in private, would that be OK. 

Like I said, I don't think it's offensive. Just think the FA either punish more harshly, or not at all. 



MetalMickie said:



			With any prejudice I would need to know the view of the individual or the community in question before I could judge if something is offensive.

I just don't have their appreciation of context.
		
Click to expand...

That's fair, but from a law/ruling pov I can't see it working that way. If you had all black, gay, sexually assaulted people on a jury for example hearing a case. I don't think it far fetched to think that on occasion they'll have a predetermined view.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 13, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			That's fair, but from a law/ruling pov I can't see it working that way. If you had all black, gay, sexually assaulted people on a jury for example hearing a case. I don't think it far fetched to think that on occasion they'll have a predetermined view.
		
Click to expand...

True but I would hope that by the time an issue became that advanced there would be a  clear idea of its effect upon the relevant individuals and communities.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 13, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			Well John Barnes has just stated on Radio 5, if I understood him correctly, that he doesn't consider it to be racist.

Indeed it would seem that he is suggesting that those who complained are themselves doing so as they consider  black skin to be a negative.
		
Click to expand...

Johnny Barnes is one of few people I take notice of when it comes to racism.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 14, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50317760 

Still got a long way to go, especially compared to Forest Green


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If Mendy doesnâ€™t find it racist or offensive I donâ€™t understand how the FA can find it offensive on his behalf ?
		
Click to expand...

You must be new to football like me.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 14, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50317760

Still got a long way to go, especially compared to Forest Green
		
Click to expand...

Wonder if they will bring back the "footy special" trains. - hovels on wheels.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 14, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Johnny Barnes is one of few people I take notice of when it comes to racism.
		
Click to expand...

He usually talks a lot of sense as well. Usually quick to point out when people are overreacting to something, as he did with this Silva & Mendy incident.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 14, 2019)

How on earth at 5-0 has there been no injury time accrued?

Pointless game really, as are most qualifiers but at least Kane has a hat trick. Seen a bit of talk about him not warranting a place which club form aside is ridiculous imo.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 14, 2019)

Montenegro are absolutely awful. We're walking around them like they're a pub team. And we still let them in for two chances! Says it all.

Kane has already surpassed Shearer in England goals. That's rather impressive. Could catch Owen in this second half as well, he's only 9 behind.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 14, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Montenegro are absolutely awful. We're walking around them like they're a pub team. And we still let them in for two chances! Says it all.

Kane has already surpassed Shearer in England goals. That's rather impressive. Could catch Owen in this second half as well, he's only 9 behind. 

Click to expand...

As lineker  pointed out on twitter 

Shearers goals will have come against stronger opposition


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 14, 2019)

Posted before finished typing


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 14, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			That's always said about past records. Same was said about Charlton when Rooney topped the chart. Then you look. Into the spanking we gave out in the 60s and realise players always score more agsint the weaker teams.
		
Click to expand...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Shearer

Look at the stats on that page 

His goals for England against very strong sides in the most


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 14, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			As lineker  pointed out on twitter

Shearers goals will have come against stronger opposition
		
Click to expand...

That's always said about past players. But when you looked into that's not true about many past players. 

The same was said about Charlton when Rooney surpassed him but some of the minnows we hammered in the 60's boosted Charlton no end. 

Re Shearer. He scored 5 in his first 20 apps prior to euro 96 and failed to score agaisnt such giants as China and Japan during a 13 match drought... Of his 31 goals. 8 were against teams who generally we'd deem as top tier nations. 

His only hat trick being agaisnt Luxembourg. 

Imo Kane has 8 against top teams too. But has scored his significantly quicker.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 14, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Shearer

Look at the stats on that page 

His goals for England against very strong sides in the most
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™m not discounting his ability. But if you simply by stats alone he doesnâ€™t have any better than Kaneâ€™s...

As to the teams he scored against at intl level

https://www.englandstats.com/players.php?pid=1210 Kane


https://www.englandstats.com/players.php?pid=860 Shearer

Pretty similar imo, itâ€™s no surprise that most shire more goals against weaker teams.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 14, 2019)

Chris Waddle: â€œit (the ball) went out of play when it was in playâ€  - brilliant ðŸ˜‚


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 14, 2019)

To me it's not about which junk team you score against, it's more that they play more games now, against rubbish or not.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 14, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			As lineker  pointed out on twitter

Shearers goals will have come against stronger opposition
		
Click to expand...

Why will they?? Did he not play in qualifying? He scored goals against Luxembourg, Georgia, Moldova etc.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 14, 2019)

Itâ€™s a daft argument imo, the players played when they were around, they didnâ€™t arrange the games or fix the matches.
To suggest player Aâ€™s record is better than Bâ€™s because of opposition is disrespectful. 
If you look at Charlton/Greaves etc they were around when we played the Home Nations at the end of every season.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 14, 2019)

Joe Gomez being jeered by a section of the England fans, weird bunch ðŸ˜


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 14, 2019)

Anyone dismissing Kanes goals because of the standard of opposition needs to have a word with themselves. He's a fantastic footballer with a great all round game.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 14, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Joe Gomez being jeered by a section of the England fans, weird bunch ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Sterling just put out another statement condemning it.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 14, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Joe Gomez being jeered by a section of the England fans, weird bunch ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Does it surprise you - divvies.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 14, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Sterling just put out another statement condemning it.
		
Click to expand...

Has he really? ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 14, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Has he really? ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

To all the @England fans, I wanted to leave things at it was but tonight I have to speak again : it was hard for me to see my team mate get booed for something that was my fault. Joe hasnâ€™t done anything wrong & for me to see someone who keeps his head down and work hard..


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 14, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			To all the @England fans, I wanted to leave things at it was but tonight I have to speak again : it was hard for me to see my team mate get booed for something that was my fault. Joe hasnâ€™t done anything wrong & for me to see someone who keeps his head down and work hard..
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ just seen it on twitter.


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 14, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			To me it's not about which junk team you score against, it's more that they play more games now, against rubbish or not.
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s why you have to look at goals per games, and Greaves is miles ahead of any England striker.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 15, 2019)

Thought that was a good effort by Sterling to post on Twitter. Shows what idiots some small minority of England fans are. 

Still very worrying signs at the back and a better team could easily have had a couple of goals.


----------



## Bazzatron (Nov 15, 2019)

Gomez getting booed is Southgate's fault.


----------



## davemc1 (Nov 15, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			Gomez getting booed is Southgate's fault.
		
Click to expand...

No it isnâ€™t.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 15, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			That's always said about past players. But when you looked into that's not true about many past players.

The same was said about Charlton when Rooney surpassed him but some of the minnows we hammered in the 60's boosted Charlton no end.

Re Shearer. He scored 5 in his first 20 apps prior to euro 96 and failed to score agaisnt such giants as China and Japan during a 13 match drought... Of his 31 goals. 8 were against teams who generally we'd deem as top tier nations.

His only hat trick being agaisnt Luxembourg.

Imo Kane has 8 against top teams too. But has scored his significantly quicker.
		
Click to expand...

What do the stats say about the top scorers if you take the penalties out of the equation.
Always thought pens shouldnâ€™t really count in top Goalscorer charts.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 15, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			What do the stats say about the top scorers if you take the penalties out of the equation.
Always thought pens shouldnâ€™t really count in top Goalscorer charts.
		
Click to expand...

Not a clue, not sure they'll be listed.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 15, 2019)

We always had this debate when I was playing.
Twin strikers one scored 18 goals no pens 
Other one scored 19 goals with 8 penalties and won leading goalscorer .
I always thought that was harsh on the lad who scored more in open play.
But a goal is a goal no matter how you get it I suppose.

Just be interesting to know the stats without pens in England scorers.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 15, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			Thatâ€™s why you have to look at goals per games, and Greaves is miles ahead of any England striker.
		
Click to expand...

Greaves 0.77 goals per game.
Kane 0.70 goals per game.

Miles ahead?


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 15, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			What do the stats say about the top scorers if you take the penalties out of the equation.
Always thought pens shouldnâ€™t really count in top Goalscorer charts.
		
Click to expand...

Because penalties aren't goals? What?


----------



## Rlburnside (Nov 15, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Greaves 0.77 goals per game.
Kane 0.70 goals per game.

Miles ahead?
		
Click to expand...

Ok not miles ahead but Greaves 44 goals in 57 games will probably still see him as Englandâ€™s greatest ever goal scorer


----------



## Piece (Nov 15, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Because penalties aren't goals? What? 

Click to expand...

Yup, believe it or not, there's some skill in taking penalties!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 15, 2019)

Maybe, if you do wish to analyse the records, goals in competitive matches maybe interesting.


----------



## Slime (Nov 15, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Greaves 0.77 goals per game.
Kane 0.70 goals per game.

Miles ahead?
		
Click to expand...

Nat Lofthouse 0.91 goals per game!
30 goals in 33 internationals.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 15, 2019)

England fans booing Gomez just sums up the moronic England supporters at times 

And for me Linekar is the best striker England have had at the moment


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			England fans booing Gomez just sums up the moronic England supporters at times 

And for me Linekar is the best striker England have had at the moment
		
Click to expand...

Agree on both points. 

Lineker scored when it really counted, in tournaments. I'm not belittling the others, all have fabulous records, but his goals in World Cups elevates him above the rest for me.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 15, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Because penalties aren't goals? What? 

Click to expand...

Who said that?
I just wondered who was the best goalscorer not the best penalty taker.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 15, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Who said that?
I just wondered who was the best goalscorer not the best penalty taker.

Click to expand...

The best two penalty takers I remember were Phil Neale and Ray Stewart, both full backs for the youngsters out there ðŸ˜. Maybe that is a memory thing but I don't seem to remember them missing many. You always felt they were going to score them. The worst had to be Teddy Sheringham. Amazing how he kept being allowed to take them but you could tell as he walked up it wasn't going in the net.

Before anyone posts, yes I know about Le Tissier.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 15, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The best two penalty takers I remember were Phil Neale and Ray Stewart, both full backs for the youngsters out there ðŸ˜. Maybe that is a memory thing but I don't seem to remember them missing many. You always felt they were going to score them. The worst had to be Teddy Sheringham. Amazing how he kept being allowed to take them but you could tell as he walked up it wasn't going in the net.

Before anyone posts, yes I know about Le Tissier.
		
Click to expand...

James Milner must be up there .
But feel you might of misread my post.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 15, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Agree on both points.

Lineker scored when it really counted, in tournaments. I'm not belittling the others, all have fabulous records, but his goals in World Cups elevates him above the rest for me.
		
Click to expand...

Looks like Rooney did it more when it counted.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 15, 2019)

Piece said:



			Yup, believe it or not, there's some skill in taking penalties!
		
Click to expand...

Is that why they end up in pizza adverts.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 15, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Who said that?
I just wondered who was the best goalscorer not the best penalty taker.

Click to expand...

Sorry I just don't get why people belittle penalty takers. A penalty is worth one goal just like all the others. Penalties are not tap-ins, go and look at Messi and Aguero's penalty records which are surprisingly poor for top strikers. Nobody belittles Hazard or Milner who have fantastic penalty records, because they're not strikers? A striker scoring penalties somehow cheapens the value of it? I don't get it at all.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 15, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			James Milner must be up there .
But feel you might of misread my post.

Click to expand...

No, I just went off on a tangent ðŸ˜.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 15, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Looks like Rooney did it more when it counted.
		
Click to expand...

I must have missed those tournaments. He scored well in qualifying but at World Cups and Euros ðŸ¤”? Lineker did it in 2 world cups, I'd take him first every time.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 15, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Sorry I just don't get why people belittle penalty takers. A penalty is worth one goal just like all the others. Penalties are not tap-ins, go and look at Messi and Aguero's penalty records which are surprisingly poor for top strikers. Nobody belittles Hazard or Milner who have fantastic penalty records, because they're not strikers? A striker scoring penalties somehow cheapens the value of it? I don't get it at all.
		
Click to expand...

Not belittling them at all.
I took a penalty in a cup final once ,I was bricking it . But scored.
The strikers all bottled out and as capt stepped up.
Just hit it as hard as I could. Eyes closed from what I remember.
I was just asking a question thatâ€™s all.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 15, 2019)

If we're talking about tournaments only then it has to be Lineker surely with his goals against Cameroon from the spot under pressure and then against Germany in the semi


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 15, 2019)

I am not belittling penalties, but it is luck of the draw if you happen to be the teams penalty taker. Someone else in the team could be equally good, but doesn't get the chance.
Take the golden boot scenario. Player A scores 22 goals from open play, but the team get 10 pens taken by the Captain, a mid fielder. Player B scores 23 goals, 15 from open play, 8 from pens. To me, player A should get the golden boot. He is by far the better striker.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 15, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			I am not belittling penalties, but it is luck of the draw if you happen to be the teams penalty taker. Someone else in the team could be equally good, but doesn't get the chance.
Take the golden boot scenario. Player A scores 22 goals from open play, but the team get 10 pens taken by the Captain, a mid fielder. Player B scores 23 goals, 15 from open play, 8 from pens. To me, player A should get the golden boot. He is by far the better striker.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 15, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Joe Gomez being jeered by a section of the England fans, weird bunch ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Yeah but they pay their dues so they are permitted to jeer if they want to. ðŸ˜—ðŸ˜œ


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 15, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah but they pay their dues so they are permitted to jeer if they want to. ðŸ˜—ðŸ˜œ
		
Click to expand...

Didnâ€™t you say the Arsenal fans shouldnâ€™t boo  Xhaka ?
Gomez and Sterlingâ€™s spat had nothing to do with England.
But your right they pay their money.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 15, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Didnâ€™t you say the Arsenal fans shouldnâ€™t boo  Xhaka ?
Gomez and Sterlingâ€™s spat had nothing to do with England.
But your right they pay their money.
		
Click to expand...

.

Did you miss the smileys on my post?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 15, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			.

Did you miss the smileys on my post?
		
Click to expand...

Yes it had two faces


----------



## richart (Nov 17, 2019)

Slime said:



			Nat Lofthouse 0.91 goals per game!
30 goals in 33 internationals.
		
Click to expand...

David Nugent 1.0 goals per game !!


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 17, 2019)

richart said:



			David Nugent 1.0 goals per game !!
		
Click to expand...

Theres been a few.... 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksp...nt-franny-jeffers-danny-wallace-and-more/amp/


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 18, 2019)

Didn't even know Francis Jeffers had played for England!


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 18, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Didn't even know Francis Jeffers had played for England!
		
Click to expand...

A wasted talent.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 18, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			A wasted talent.
		
Click to expand...

Was he "the new Michael Owen" no. 2,3 or 4?


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 18, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Was he "the new Michael Owen" no. 2,3 or 4?
		
Click to expand...

Was he that much of a sicknote then?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 18, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Was he that much of a sicknote then?

Click to expand...

Wash yer mouth out, he was Arsene's "fox in the box".

Not sure if he ever unlocked it though.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 18, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Was he that much of a sicknote then?

Click to expand...

Not in the same class as Darren Anderton. ðŸ™„


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 18, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Was he "the new Michael Owen" no. 2,3 or 4?
		
Click to expand...

He was Wengers Fox in the box....


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 18, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			He was Wengers Fox in the box....
		
Click to expand...

Next time I'll read further down!


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 18, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Was he "the new Michael Owen" no. 2,3 or 4?
		
Click to expand...

Robbie Fowler no2 after Micheal Branch ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 18, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Robbie Fowler no2 after Micheal Branch ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Nar, Fowler was before Owen.

Not sure of the order, but think the next 3 Michael Owens' were Cadamateri, Michael Branch and Jeffers, then the epithet fell out of use........


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 18, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Nar, Fowler was before Owen.

Not sure of the order, but think the next 3 Michael Owens' were Cadamateri, Michael Branch and Jeffers, then the epithet fell out of use........ 

Click to expand...

Branch was defo the next Fowler, the nearest he got to being Fowler was wearing the same #23 shirt ðŸ˜‚

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....r-everton-striker-michael-branch-11840772.amp


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 19, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Branch was defo the next Fowler, the nearest he got to being Fowler was wearing the same #23 shirt ðŸ˜‚

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....r-everton-striker-michael-branch-11840772.amp

Click to expand...

Yep, but had a scoring record like Carragher.


----------



## fundy (Nov 19, 2019)

Looks like the wrong north London club has sacked their manager


----------



## GreiginFife (Nov 19, 2019)

Poch gone? Bold move by Spurs. A man that they warded off the overtures of Real Madrid for...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 19, 2019)

fundy said:



			Looks like the wrong north London club has sacked their manager 

Click to expand...


----------



## GreiginFife (Nov 19, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 28591

Click to expand...

Capturing Rangers Jim's good side there I see


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 19, 2019)

GreiginFife said:



			Poch gone? Bold move by Spurs. A man that they warded off the overtures of Real Madrid for...
		
Click to expand...

Crazy move, Mourinho in next ?


----------



## GreiginFife (Nov 19, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Crazy move, Mourinho in next ?
		
Click to expand...

Rumour this afternoon they are sniffing around the Leipzig coach.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 19, 2019)

Sky had an article earlier suggesting it could cost Spurs Â£12.5m to pay off Poch https://www.skysports.com/football/...ettino-and-daniel-levy-face-drawn-out-divorce


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 19, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Crazy move, Mourinho in next ?
		
Click to expand...

Crazy enough decision to sack Pochettini now, if they employ JM that would be an even crazier decision.

Strange time to sack him though, why wait til now when they had all of last week. Madness.


----------



## Piece (Nov 19, 2019)

Poch will probably appear at a large Spanish club soon...


----------



## Jensen (Nov 19, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Crazy move, Mourinho in next ?
		
Click to expand...

I bloody hope not


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 19, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Crazy enough decision to sack Pochettini now, if they employ JM that would be an even crazier decision.

Strange time to sack him though, why wait til now when they had all of last week. Madness.
		
Click to expand...

Why sack him at all?

4 consecutive top 4 finishes, runner up in league, CL, league cup, all with no or very little money to spend and playing away at Wembley for 2 years.

Think they will regret that big time.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 19, 2019)

Jensen said:



			I bloody hope not
		
Click to expand...

Maybe they are after the same man Arsenal want and are frightened of missing out? 

BR? Enrique? Howe?

Heard Nagelsmann just mentioned on the radio.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 19, 2019)

sawtooth said:



*Maybe they are after the same man Arsenal want and are frightened of missing out?*

BR? Enrique? Howe?

Heard Nagelsmann just mentioned on the radio.
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## ger147 (Nov 19, 2019)

Poch to Real Madrid?


----------



## GreiginFife (Nov 19, 2019)

Piece said:



			Poch will probably appear at a large Spanish club soon...

Click to expand...

Yeah, Valverde's coat is on a shoogly peg...


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 19, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

I thought youâ€™d like that. ðŸ˜€


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 19, 2019)

sawtooth said:



*Why sack him at all?*

4 consecutive top 4 finishes, runner up in league, CL, league cup, all with no or very little money to spend and playing away at Wembley for 2 years.

Think they will regret that big time.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe the results since New Yearâ€™s Day havenâ€™t been acceptable.

Itâ€™s ok theyâ€™ve still got Ali ðŸ˜‰


----------



## arnieboy (Nov 19, 2019)

Thanks Poch but your time was up. We need to have a clear out of the players that don't want to be there and build again.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 19, 2019)

arnieboy said:



			Thanks Poch but your time was up. We need to have a clear out of the players that don't want to be there and build again.
		
Click to expand...

Build using what ? 

The club didnâ€™t back their best manager in decades because they spent most of the money on the stadium , most of their top players look like they are going to run down their contracts

Pochettino had Spurs punching way above their weight and it seems behind the scenes it was falling apart 

It looks like for the forseable future Spurs along with Arsenal will have the best stadiums in the Europa Lge


----------



## arnieboy (Nov 19, 2019)

Don't new managers of the big clubs get incentivised with a big transfer budget?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 19, 2019)

arnieboy said:



			Don't new managers of the big clubs get incentivised with a big transfer budget?
		
Click to expand...

Or bigger wages 

If Spurs suddenly splash the cash you would have to ask why they didnâ€™t do that for Pochettino- it was clear they need players in and players out and thatâ€™s down to Levy 

Think this is a big mistake


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 19, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Maybe the results since New Yearâ€™s Day havenâ€™t been acceptable.

Itâ€™s ok theyâ€™ve still got Ali ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

Or maybe the board decided that they wanted more than just dust and the "Top 4 Trophy" in their trophy cabinet.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 19, 2019)

fundy said:



			Looks like the wrong north London club has sacked their manager 

Click to expand...

"The game's gone!"

But Levy remains in place. The owner is backing the wrong horse.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 19, 2019)

Could it be as simple as Levy and Poch having a bust up regarding transfer policy and funds and Levy flexing his muscles and getting rid. I don't think it's a good decision and can't see Kane and the others hanging around too long. We've seen how player power is on the rise and I'm sure their agents can fashion moves to bigger clubs


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 19, 2019)

I fancy Nagelsman at Arsenal, but Leipzig have him tied into a decent contract, and it will cost proper money to extract him. Time to see if Spuds have the minerals.


----------



## Wolf (Nov 19, 2019)

Considering Spurs lack of spending backing the manager and still expecting high level results this seems like a terrible decision and ultimately Poch will go onto a bigger and better job, whilst spurs I think will struggle to get anyone as good as him with a seemingly poor budget.


----------



## Hobbit (Nov 19, 2019)

Spurs lack of spending looks very familiar. Arsenal cut back when they had the Emirates built. Expect 10 years of mediocrity to follow.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 19, 2019)

GreiginFife said:



			Rumour this afternoon they are sniffing around the Leipzig coach.
		
Click to expand...

Who Spurs or Mourinho?


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 19, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Or maybe the board decided that they wanted more than just dust and the "Top 4 Trophy" in their trophy cabinet. 

Click to expand...

Good luck with that.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 19, 2019)

Pochettino to Arsenal?


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 19, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Pochettino to Arsenal?
		
Click to expand...

He has always said he wouldn't, but money talks. I would be ok with that.

Oddly, the Spurs fans would probably hate him for it, despite him having been sackec.


----------



## Norrin Radd (Nov 19, 2019)

Reported by sky a few mins ago that spuds in talks with Maureen and could in place by tomorrow


----------



## Piece (Nov 19, 2019)

Norrin Radd said:



			Reported by sky a few mins ago that spuds in talks with Maureen and could in place by tomorrow
		
Click to expand...

And if thatâ€™s true, then hopefully theyâ€™ve already lined up Joseâ€™s replacement after the usual two year honeymoon period he has ðŸ˜†


----------



## chrisd (Nov 20, 2019)

Norrin Radd said:



			Reported by sky a few mins ago that spuds in talks with Maureen and could in place by tomorrow
		
Click to expand...

Bad mistake imo, it would be better to sack Levy and back Poch with some transfer money


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 20, 2019)

chrisd said:



			Bad mistake imo, it would be better to sack Levy and back Poch with some transfer money
		
Click to expand...

Agreed and Mourinho likes to spend millions and millions and he wonâ€™t get that at Spurs lol.

Poch and Wenger situation is very similar, I worry when people think they can do better by getting someone else rather than being patient. Lets see.


----------



## Wolf (Nov 20, 2019)

Just heard it confirmed on talksport that Spurs have agreed deal with Mourinho until end of 2022 season and will be the manager of the club.. 

Seems an odd decision considering the board state no money hence Poch struggling bring in players yet sign a manager that spends money like water


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 20, 2019)

Wow,JM at Spurs? I'm astonished.


----------



## Piece (Nov 20, 2019)

Will Levy find a war chest down the back of the sofa for Jose?


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 20, 2019)

Piece said:



			Will Levy find a war chest down the back of the sofa for Jose?
		
Click to expand...

It wonâ€™t be there for long with Mourinho lol.

Question is , what Mourinho will Spurs be getting? The old or the new? 

He will love to put one over on Utd and Chelsea thatâ€™s for sure.


----------



## Kellfire (Nov 20, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			It wonâ€™t be there for long with Mourinho lol.

Question is , what Mourinho will Spurs be getting? The old or the new?

He will love to put one over on Utd and Chelsea thatâ€™s for sure.
		
Click to expand...

Same Mourinho, it's the times that have moved.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 20, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			It wonâ€™t be there for long with Mourinho lol.

Question is , what Mourinho will Spurs be getting? The old or the new? 

He will love to put one over on Utd and Chelsea thatâ€™s for sure.
		
Click to expand...

Wouldn't surprise me to see spurs win the FA cup this season, he is a proven winner. I can see him focusing entirely on winning that to prove yes I am the special one.. 9 months and I already most successful spurs manager of all time


----------



## AmandaJR (Nov 20, 2019)

Oh no we'll have to suffer him on TV all the time again...it was bad enough Sky having him as a so called pundit.


----------



## larmen (Nov 20, 2019)

You got to love his business model. Signing 3 to 4 year highly numerated contracts to be let go after much less time than that. Is he still receiving money from United?

As a club I would think twice about giving him such long contracts, but I think if they want him he can basically state his conditions.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 20, 2019)

The king is dead, long live the ..........Oh, God.

Making of them, or destroyer of worlds? Just doesnt seem to fit - will he be able to take them up a level with the levels of spend that Poch had to work with?


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 20, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Wouldn't surprise me to see spurs win the FA cup this season, he is a proven winner. I can see him focusing entirely on winning that to prove yes I am the special one.. *9 months and I already most successful spurs manager of all time*

Click to expand...

Not true. Believe it or not Spurs won trophies before football began in 1992.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 20, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			The king is dead, long live the ..........Oh, God.

Making of them, or destroyer of worlds? Just doesnt seem to fit - will he be able to take them up a level with the levels of spend that Poch had to work with?
		
Click to expand...

I think it depends largely on what funds he has and who he brings in and more importantly who stays. I wonder how many of the big Spurs players have their agents already looking to fashion a way out of the club. We've seen before how player power seems to be able to dictate events more and more


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 20, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Wow,JM at Spurs? I'm astonished.
		
Click to expand...

This with knobs on. If I was a Spurs fan I'd be horrified. What type of football does he play? How does he leave a club? What state are that club in afterwards?

So many better options than him for Spurs. Be afraid Tottenham fans, be afraid.


----------



## Jensen (Nov 20, 2019)

Poison Mourinho, it's a car crash waiting to happen. He alienates and destroys players.
With spoiler football we'll be singing that well known Gooner song, "One nil to the Tottenham"  ðŸ™„


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 20, 2019)

Fantastic appt for Spurs, theyâ€™ll get a trophy or two in the next few seasons, love him or hate him, he gets results.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 20, 2019)

Sad to lose Poch. Feels like losing an old friend - but we're 14th, lost 12 Premier League games since last Christmas. Haven't won in the Prem since September. They weren't going to be patient forever. I'd have been happy for him to stay on but the reasons for him going are clear.

Mourinho I think is a great appointment. World class manager, I don't know why people like to pretend he isn't one either. We have a lot of Mourinho type players as well, if anything the team already has some elements in common with a Mourinho team - good players with a competitive edge to them. We need to see that new manager bounce as we can't afford to lose many more games or this season will be a total write-off.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 20, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Fantastic appt for Spurs, theyâ€™ll get a trophy or two in the next few seasons, love him or hate him, he gets results.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly, he's one of the most decorated managers in the game, and people talk about him like he doesn't know what he's doing. I can't understand it.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 20, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Exactly, he's one of the most decorated managers in the game, and people talk about him like he doesn't know what he's doing. I can't understand it.
		
Click to expand...

Just make sure when you win a trophy youâ€™re standing next to those who are against him and see if they celebrate.


----------



## Bazzatron (Nov 20, 2019)

I was worried they'd go for Nuno


----------



## Robin Hood (Nov 20, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Fantastic appt for Spurs, theyâ€™ll get a trophy or two in the next few seasons, love him or hate him, he gets results.
		
Click to expand...

It's going to be an interesting time for Spurs. 
A proven manager with an enormous ego in a cash strapped club.
The biggest plus is he won't be a pundit on Sky - thank goodness for that !


----------



## Robin Hood (Nov 20, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			I was worried they'd go for Nuno 

Click to expand...

Should have gone for Benitez 

"Toon Toon, Black n White Army"


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 20, 2019)

Robin Hood said:



			It's going to be an interesting time for Spurs.
A proven manager with an enormous ego in a cash strapped club.
The biggest plus is he won't be a pundit on Sky - thank goodness for that !
		
Click to expand...

I don't think 'cash-strapped' is the right word. We just famously don't like chucking it around. A cash-strapped club wouldn't be able to afford Mourinho in the first place. We have one of the best stadiums in the country, Champion's League currently although it will be a huge task for him to get into the top four again (I think we'll just miss out). 

Imagine if he wins the FA Cup in his first non-even-full season. Scenes.


----------



## Jensen (Nov 20, 2019)

Robin Hood said:



			Should have gone for Benitez

"Toon Toon, Black n White Army"
		
Click to expand...

I would have preferred Rafa, he did a fantastic job at the Toon


----------



## Robin Hood (Nov 20, 2019)

Jensen said:



			I would have preferred Rafa, he did a fantastic job at the Toon
		
Click to expand...

Hear hear ðŸ‘


----------



## Jensen (Nov 20, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Sad to lose Poch. Feels like losing an old friend - but we're 14th, lost 12 Premier League games since last Christmas. Haven't won in the Prem since September. They weren't going to be patient forever. I'd have been happy for him to stay on but the reasons for him going are clear.

Mourinho I think is a great appointment. World class manager, I don't know why people like to pretend he isn't one either. We have a lot of Mourinho type players as well, if anything the team already has some elements in common with a Mourinho team - good players with a competitive edge to them. We need to see that new manager bounce as we can't afford to lose many more games or this season will be a total write-off.
		
Click to expand...

Eh - with the historic style of football that Tottenham play, you think watching a team of spoilers is the way forward.
The man is POISON and will cause more problems than he solves, Lord help us


----------



## pendodave (Nov 20, 2019)

If I had to choose between Rafa and Maureen I'd definitely prefer Rafa.
I'm surprised that he doesn't come up more when considering how to move Arsenal forward. They have good players, but no pattern, and Rafa knows how to organise a team.
I'm similarly surprised that Spurs haven't done what they did when they employed Poch in the first place - look for a dynamic, young, forward looking coach trying to get on in the game. That would seem more in keeping with their place in the world.
Hopefully it all goes ***s up and provides us all with plenty to laugh at on the way...


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 20, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Eh - with the historic style of football that Tottenham play, you think watching a team of spoilers is the way forward.
The man is POISON and will cause more problems than he solves, Lord help us
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but I don't really care about 'historic style of football'. I'm 33 so I grew watching us play awful football under the likes of Gerry Francis and George Graham. I just want us to win some football matches right now. The man has won trophies everywhere he's been.


----------



## Robin Hood (Nov 20, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Sorry but I don't really care about 'historic style of football'. I'm 33 so I grew watching us play awful football under the likes of Gerry Francis and George Graham. I just want us to win some football matches right now. The man has won trophies everywhere he's been.
		
Click to expand...

He also has a good record for getting sacked.
Bon chance Mon Ami


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 20, 2019)

Robin Hood said:



			He also has a good record for getting sacked.
Bon chance Mon Ami
		
Click to expand...

What does that mean? Almost every manager gets sacked eventually.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 20, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Fantastic appt for Spurs, theyâ€™ll get a trophy or two in the next few seasons, love him or hate him, he gets results.
		
Click to expand...

Do you think he will if he he spends nett Â£20m every year, which was what Poch's "treasure chest" was?

If he does, yes, or if Levy lets him spend Â£100-150 mill a year and he does fair enough - can you see either scenario though?


----------



## Robin Hood (Nov 20, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			What does that mean? Almost every manager gets sacked eventually.
		
Click to expand...

For a "Special One" he doesn't have the longevity Of say a Ferguson or Wenger.
He averages 2 years between appointments.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 20, 2019)

Nobody is doubting JMâ€™s credentials based on what heâ€™s won, itâ€™s more how heâ€™s done it.

I think heâ€™s inherited a very good team of 16 players, thereâ€™s no real excuse for him to not improve performances/results over the next 7 months.  I donâ€™t think Spurs need massive investment (2possibly 3)if they keep the current team together.

Good luck to Spurs fans though, youll need it when JM starts with his toxic antics.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 20, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Sorry but I don't really care about 'historic style of football'. I'm 33 so I grew watching us play awful football under the likes of Gerry Francis and George Graham. I just want us to win some football matches right now. *The man has won trophies everywhere he's been.*

Click to expand...

Itâ€™s always been at an expensive cost though, will Spurs back him to the standard of player he usually attracts?


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 20, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			This with knobs on. If I was a Spurs fan I'd be horrified. What type of football does he play? How does he leave a club? What state are that club in afterwards?

So many better options than him for Spurs. Be afraid Tottenham fans, be afraid.
		
Click to expand...

Whilst you may have a point, you just never know with Mourinho. Itâ€™s hard to write someone off that has managed to win major titles with different teams in different countries.

It will be fascinating to see how it goes.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 20, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Itâ€™s always been at an expensive cost though, will Spurs back him to the standard of player he usually attracts?
		
Click to expand...

He's not walking into the dark is he? He's been in the English league long enough to know what Spurs are about. Either we have promised more than we usually spend, or he's willing at accept more of a challenge than he's had in the past. Perhaps certain players will be sold to make ends meet. If Poch goes to Real I can see him popping straight back for Kane or Son for example.


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 20, 2019)

Net spend of Â£110m in 5 years and finished 5th, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd and 4th. Throw in playing at Wembley for two of those years, essentially funding half a new stadium and reaching a CL final.

This is Spurs we're talking about - an average Premiership side for 30 years. I think his tenre will be more rated in the coming years. Really sad day for Spurs fans. I've seen Spurs a fair few times over the last 5 years as a neutral and while lacking quality in certain areas, they were so well coached, intense and played exceptional football.

It's clear he lost faith with Levy over the contracts of key players, failing to sell them and then bringing in first choice targets. It disrupted dressing room harmony and made it tough for him. This is Levy's doing and he'll pay a heavy price for it. So many occasions Spurs were one or two top class players away from a title challenging side and Levy failed to deliver the goods. Even this summer Poch was desperate for Dybala and Levy bottled it.

Mourinho with a point to prove is an interesting one. I think if his remit is to finish Top 4, win some cups and forget about style then he's a good appointment on the surface. But given Levy didn't back Poch in the market, why will he back Mourinho? And we know the reason Mourinho went sour at Man Utd was down to Woodward failing to back him with his transfer targets.

Poch will have PSG, Real, Bayern, Juve and Man Utd after him if any of those sides hits a bad patch. You'd think he's also the most natural replacement to Pep at City who won't be there much longer. Unlike Man Utd, I suspect Man City will have a few succession plans in place and he'll figure on that.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 20, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Do you think he will if he he spends nett Â£20m every year, which was what Poch's "treasure chest" was?

If he does, yes, or if Levy lets him spend Â£100-150 mill a year and he does fair enough - can you see either scenario though?
		
Click to expand...

You know what youâ€™re getting with Jose, he donâ€™t employ him after all these years on a shoestring.
Maybe Poch had taken Spurs as far as he could and regardless of spend may not of caught yous or City, Levy might see Jose as being able to make the next step.
Everything is in place at Spurs to step up a level, Iâ€™m not putting all the blame on Poch, we can only go on what we see/read in the papers but it certainly hasnâ€™t been plain sailing with the amount of rumours that keep happening.
What we do know is Jose will make it all about him and perhaps release some of the pressure in the background, players currently looking to leave may well stay.


----------



## Imurg (Nov 20, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			. The man has won trophies everywhere he's been.
		
Click to expand...

There's a first time for everything....


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 20, 2019)

You know what youâ€™re getting with Jose, he donâ€™t employ him after all these years on a shoestring.

A.Not normally, but either Levy will have to change his spots, or Jose will.

Maybe Poch had taken Spurs as far as he could and regardless of spend may not of caught yous or City, Levy might see Jose as being able to make the next step.

A. Maybe, but it can also go the other way and he could destroy most of what poch has created.

Everything is in place at Spurs to step up a level, Iâ€™m not putting all the blame on Poch, we can only go on what we see/read in the papers but it certainly hasnâ€™t been plain sailing with the amount of rumours that keep happening.

A. Will depend on how the finances are for the stadium - if the debt is serviceable and they can spend 50-100 mill a year, they are in a good position, but if Jose doesnt get CL in his first 2 years, it could see them struggle after that.

What we do know is Jose will make it all about him and perhaps release some of the pressure in the background, players currently looking to leave may well stay.

A. Yes, he is a tactician and he may be under a different regime at Spurs were he doesnt sign players based on shirt sales/twitter followers etc and just on abaility - not sure he had that choice at Man U.

How did I score? 

I didnt want to paint a picture of all being doom and gloom or rosy, and it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

So, Rafa for Everton then?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 20, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			You know what youâ€™re getting with Jose, he donâ€™t employ him after all these years on a shoestring.

A.Not normally, but either Levy will have to change his spots, or Jose will.

Maybe Poch had taken Spurs as far as he could and regardless of spend may not of caught yous or City, Levy might see Jose as being able to make the next step.

A. Maybe, but it can also go the other way and he could destroy most of what poch has created.

Everything is in place at Spurs to step up a level, Iâ€™m not putting all the blame on Poch, we can only go on what we see/read in the papers but it certainly hasnâ€™t been plain sailing with the amount of rumours that keep happening.

A. Will depend on how the finances are for the stadium - if the debt is serviceable and they can spend 50-100 mill a year, they are in a good position, but if Jose doesnt get CL in his first 2 years, it could see them struggle after that.

What we do know is Jose will make it all about him and perhaps release some of the pressure in the background, players currently looking to leave may well stay.

A. Yes, he is a tactician and he may be under a different regime at Spurs were he doesnt sign players based on shirt sales/twitter followers etc and just on abaility - not sure he had that choice at Man U.

How did I score? 

I didnt want to paint a picture of all being doom and gloom or rosy, and it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

*So, Rafa for Everton then?*

Click to expand...

Nope


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 20, 2019)

Unless either 

Maureen has changed the way he wants to manage 

Or

Spurs are going to open the purse significantly 

This for me is biggest mismatch of manager and club for a long time 

For me itâ€™s an awful appointment and Spurs are going to pay the penalty for not backing Pochettino and sacking him 

Just smacks of wanting the big name


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 20, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Sorry but I don't really care about 'historic style of football'. I'm 33 so I grew watching us play awful football under the likes of Gerry Francis and George Graham. I just want us to win some football matches right now.* The man has won trophies everywhere he's been.*

Click to expand...

When he has been backed heavily in the transfer market in a single club league

Imo he wonâ€™t be winning trophies at Spurs


----------



## Wolf (Nov 20, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			He's not walking into the dark is he? He's been in the English league long enough to know what Spurs are about. Either we have promised more than we usually spend, or he's willing at accept more of a challenge than he's had in the past. Perhaps certain players will be sold to make ends meet. If Poch goes to Real I can see him popping straight back for Kane or *Son* for example.
		
Click to expand...

Problem for me with Mourinho is he doesn't just work with what he's got and he doesn't work with youth he overlooks them for the instant fox with big cash spend and I can't see Spurs having those funds available and if they do suddenly appear surely that says more about the board not backing Poch financially if it turns out they had it all along.. 

As for Son not a chance Poch takes him somewhere like Real he maybe decent in a Spurs squad but he is in no way even a bench warmer player at a team like Real,, that's a hugely overrating of a player.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When he has been backed heavily in the transfer market in a single club league

Imo he wonâ€™t be winning trophies at Spurs
		
Click to expand...

Not really, Porto came from nowhere, Chelsea and Man Utd arenâ€™t in a single club league, RM had Barca when Barca were at the height of their success.

Backed heavily, absolutely, but donâ€™t all the top teams in the world back their guy heavily when they come in?

Spurs I would argue are 1 tier down and Poch possibly overachieved with what he had.

On paper heâ€™s been far better than Moyes ever was, but I donâ€™t think with all the money in the world Moyes would of took us to another level and look what happened to him when he went to a top job.

Maybe Pochâ€™s level will be similar.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 20, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Problem for me with Mourinho is he doesn't just work with what he's got and he doesn't work with youth he overlooks them for the instant fox with big cash spend and I can't see Spurs having those funds available and if they do suddenly appear surely that says more about the board not backing Poch financially if it turns out they had it all along..

As for Son not a chance Poch takes him somewhere like Real he maybe decent in a Spurs squad but he is in no way even a bench warmer player at a team like Real,, that's a hugely overrating of a player.
		
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? Son is one of the best forwards in the Premier League. Not saying he'd start every game for Madrid but he would get more than his fair share of games.


----------



## Wolf (Nov 20, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			What are you talking about? Son is one of the best forwards in the Premier League. Not saying he'd start every game for Madrid but he would get more than his fair share of games.
		
Click to expand...

Now I know you're having a laugh with your Spurs tinted blinkers on, Son is a decent player but he is not one of the best forwards there re several ahead of him and he is not good enough for Real Madrid.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 20, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Now I know you're having a laugh with your Spurs tinted blinkers on, Son is a decent player but he is not one of the best forwards there re several ahead of him and he is not good enough for Real Madrid.
		
Click to expand...

Have you not seen him play or something?? In terms of wingers he's only really behind Mane, Salah and Sterling, and maybe Sane if he was fit. The lad is exceptional - and more two-footed than any of those four I just mentioned.


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 20, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Problem for me with *Mourinho is he doesn't just work with what he's got and he doesn't work with youth he overlooks them for the instant fox with big cash spend *and I can't see Spurs having those funds available and if they do suddenly appear surely that says more about the board not backing Poch financially if it turns out they had it all along..

As for Son not a chance Poch takes him somewhere like Real he maybe decent in a Spurs squad but he is in no way even a bench warmer player at a team like Real,,* that's a hugely overrating of a player*.
		
Click to expand...

Erm not really true. Mourinho got abuse for the way he handled Shaw but he was looking a proper player and has nosedived since Mourinho left. McTominay was thrown in by Mourinho and Rashford was played on a regular basis. In fact it's only since Ole moved Rashford back to the left (the position Mourinho played him) has he started playing well again. And Lingard was given games under Mourinho and looks a shadow of the player he was.

Very harsh on Son. Every team needs a workhorse like that with a bit of quality thrown in. See Pedro at Barce and Park at Man Utd back in the day. If you don't think Son would get a game at Real you obviously haven't seen them for 18 months!


----------



## Wolf (Nov 20, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Have you not seen him play or something?? In terms of wingers he's only really behind Mane, Salah and Sterling, and maybe Sane if he was fit. The lad is exceptional - and more two-footed than any of those four I just mentioned.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I've seen him play, yes he works hard and like I said he's a decent player. Doesn't change my opinion of him not being good enough for Real, I've said it 3 times now Son is decent but imo he is not world class and Real won't sign someone in that position that is not world class. 

In terms of forward players they have the likes of Bale struggling to make the starting line up. Son maybe a work horse and get into Premier league teams but he is and I'll stick by my point and be immovable on it not good enough for Real Madrid


----------



## Wolf (Nov 20, 2019)

4LEX said:



			Erm not really true. Mourinho got abuse for the way he handled Shaw but he was looking a proper player and has nosedived since Mourinho left. McTominay was thrown in by Mourinho and Rashford was played on a regular basis. In fact it's only since Ole moved Rashford back to the left (the position Mourinho played him) has he started playing well again. And Lingard was given games under Mourinho and looks a shadow of the player he was.

Very harsh on Son. Every team needs a workhorse like that with a bit of quality thrown in. See Pedro at Barce and Park at Man Utd back in the day. If you don't think Son would get a game at Real you obviously haven't seen them for 18 months!
		
Click to expand...

Actually it's very true..  Shaw was a big money buy from outside the club that struggled whilst Mourinho was there, did Mourinho improve him possibly but one player improving doesn't make him the messiah, as for Rashford and McTominay again 2 youth team players developed in how many years of English management. He stifled the Chelsea youth system all the whilst he was there it's only recently post Mourinho more faith has been put back into their youth system. Plus regardless of your 3 examples it's proof in the pudding he spends big to get results and not done with bringing youth through. 

Also not harsh on Son I stand by my comments above, decent player not world class. As for work horse that he maybe but Real don't sign work horses as forwards generally, they sign world class players and put the work horses in the middle of the park but they still have to be exceptional in other areas.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 20, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Yes I've seen him play, yes he works hard and like I said he's a decent player. Doesn't change my opinion of him not being good enough for Real, I've said it 3 times now Son is decent but imo he is not world class and Real won't sign someone in that position that is not world class. 

In terms of forward players they have the likes of Bale struggling to make the starting line up. Son maybe a work horse and get into Premier league teams but he is and I'll stick by my point and be immovable on it not good enough for Real Madrid
		
Click to expand...

To be fair Madrid once signed Julian faubert off us on loan and he was pony lol


----------



## Wolf (Nov 20, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			To be fair Madrid once signed Julian faubert off us on loan and he was pony lol
		
Click to expand...

Everyone makes mistakes I guess ðŸ˜‚
Didn't he only manage 2 appearances before being shipped back you ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 20, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Yes I've seen him play, yes he works hard and like I said he's a decent player. Doesn't change my opinion of him not being good enough for Real, I've said it 3 times now Son is decent but imo he is not world class and Real won't sign someone in that position that is not world class.

In terms of forward players they have the likes of Bale struggling to make the starting line up. Son maybe a work horse and get into Premier league teams but he is and I'll stick by my point and be immovable on it not good enough for Real Madrid
		
Click to expand...

Agree to disagree I guess, but I just thought you were simultaneously underrating Son slightly and overrating Madrid slightly. Bale's issue is attitude, not quality, and you couldn't fault Son's attitude. In fairness I was working on the basis that the Real team is not what it was. In their classic teams someone like Son may not have made it, but right now they are playing guys like Lucas Vazquez who seems like the Spanish Lingard to me - and Vinicius, a youngster who has flattered to deceive by all accounts. James Rodriguez was practically forced out of the club but even he's come back and got some games. I think Son would improve them. I'm going to stop now because it sounds like I actually want them to buy him.


----------



## harpo_72 (Nov 20, 2019)

This sacking is a bit short sighted, he had players who want to leave and they did not get some fresh blood in. I know they have to run it like a business but if you want to match the top teams you do need to spend out on something or take a long view. 
Mourinho has come back twice to the premier league .. he has got worse on each return. He also isn't a team player and claims that he won those cups.
He will do little or no good for Spurs, hope the other premier league sides look at the January transfer window to do some asset stripping of Spurs.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 20, 2019)

harpo_72 said:



			This sacking is a bit short sighted, he had players who want to leave and they did not get some fresh blood in. I know they have to run it like a business but if you want to match the top teams you do need to spend out on something or take a long view.
Mourinho has come back twice to the premier league .. he has got worse on each return. He also isn't a team player and claims that he won those cups.
He will do little or no good for Spurs, hope the other premier league sides look at the January transfer window to do some asset stripping of Spurs.
		
Click to expand...

We bought three players! Ok we neglected right back, but it's not like we spent zero again. Ndombele and Lo Celso were significant additions, and Sessegnon was a good young player who might have provided competition had he not been injured already. 

As ever we don't know what percentage of this is true as the 'source' is unnamed, but quite enlightening to read the possible reasons for our poor season thus far: https://www.football365.com/news/report-reveals-inside-story-of-pochettinos-sacking-at-spurs


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 20, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Everyone makes mistakes I guess ðŸ˜‚
Didn't he only manage 2 appearances before being shipped back you ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Pictured asleep on the bench lol


----------



## Slime (Nov 20, 2019)

When I heard JM got the job, I nearly wet the bed!
I think the only winner here will be Poch.
JM is all about himself and I sit here wondering who will be the first Spurs player to be publicly called out by Jose.
If I were a Spurs supporter, I'd be extremely nervous.
I also hear that he's not got the job title of Manager, but he is the new Head Coach.
Is that significant? 
I really don't know.


----------



## Dando (Nov 20, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Yes I've seen him play, yes he works hard and like I said he's a decent player. Doesn't change my opinion of him not being good enough for Real, I've said it 3 times now Son is decent but imo he is not world class and Real won't sign someone in that position that is not world class. 

In terms of forward players they have the likes of Bale struggling to make the starting line up. Son maybe a work horse and get into Premier league teams but he is and I'll stick by my point and be immovable on it not good enough for Real Madrid
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, son will fit right in at real as theyâ€™re not shy of dishing out malicious tackles


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 20, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Actually it's very true..  Shaw was a big money buy from outside the club that struggled whilst Mourinho was there, did Mourinho improve him possibly but one player improving doesn't make him the messiah, as for Rashford and McTominay again 2 youth team players developed in how many years of English management. He stifled the Chelsea youth system all the whilst he was there it's only recently post Mourinho more faith has been put back into their youth system. Plus regardless of your 3 examples it's proof in the pudding he spends big to get results and not done with bringing youth through.

Also not harsh on Son I stand by my comments above, decent player not world class. As for work horse that he maybe but Real don't sign work horses as forwards generally, they sign world class players and put the work horses in the middle of the park but they still have to be exceptional in other areas.
		
Click to expand...

It was true at Chelsea and Real but they wanted results first. There was no time and no failure, it was win or out and that is why he didn't bring the youngsters through. You've also got to take into account if you're one of the Top 3 sides in the world then it's much tougher for a youth team player from that club to make the step up, which impacts on giving youth a chance. Common sense you'd have thought anyway.... Lampard has only done it this season because theres a transfer ban and absolutely no pressure. It's been an impressive start but let's see what happens over the whole season.

At Man Utd he did bring in and improve more youth/young players. Although this was probably down to the fact the level was nowhere near the level he was used to and it was easier for them to get games.

Real do sign workhorses. Watch Benzema these days....he's got a bit of class but is generally a workhorse in the middle that feeds the wingers. They've got nothing upfront and even Hazard has done his usual disappearing act he does every other season. Son would go straight into the side, even in the middle due to his work rate.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 20, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Problem for me with Mourinho is he doesn't just work with what he's got and he doesn't work with youth he overlooks them for the instant fox with big cash spend and I can't see Spurs having those funds available and if they do suddenly appear surely that says more about the board not backing Poch financially if it turns out they had it all along..

*As for Son not a chance Poch takes him somewhere like Real he maybe decent in a Spurs squad but he is in no way even a bench warmer player at a team like Real,, that's a hugely overrating of a player.*

Click to expand...

Totally disagree with this, Son if anything is underrated. Hes fantastic and a real threat offensively 

If I had a choice of any spurs player I'd have SON at Anfield no problem.


----------



## Wolf (Nov 20, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Totally disagree with this, Son if anything is underrated. Hes fantastic and a real threat offensively

If I had a choice of any spurs player I'd have SON at Anfield no problem.
		
Click to expand...

Then I'm happy to disagree, I've watched him a few times and as I've said he's decent but not world class, and you're sure you'd take him over any Spurs player ðŸ¤”

Surely most people would choose to have Kane as the pick of the bunch seeing as he's a much better goal scorer and would further improve a team whereas I don't see Son improving Liverpool at all.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 20, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Then I'm happy to disagree, I've watched him a few times and as I've said he's decent but not world class, and you're sure you'd take him over any Spurs player ðŸ¤”

Surely most people would choose to have Kane as the pick of the bunch seeing as he's a much better goal scorer and would further improve a team whereas I don't see Son improving Liverpool at all.
		
Click to expand...

I would take Son as well , very much underrated and would be a great fit for the way we play 

Kane isnâ€™t the type of player who would fit in with the way out front three work so Son for me would be the better fit


----------



## Wolf (Nov 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I would take Son as well , very much underrated and would be a great fit for the way we play

Kane isnâ€™t the type of player who would fit in with the way out front three work so Son for me would be the better fit
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough we're all entitled to our opinions and I'll stick with mine. 

Also pretty sure Harry Kane is intelligent enough a player to fit in to any system and would chip in with plenty of goals. But what do I know..


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 20, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Then I'm happy to disagree, I've watched him a few times and as I've said he's decent but not world class, *and you're sure you'd take him over any Spurs player *ðŸ¤”

Surely most people would choose to have Kane as the pick of the bunch seeing as he's a much better goal scorer and would further improve a team whereas I don't see Son improving Liverpool at all.
		
Click to expand...

Yes. 

We'd have to change how we play to incorporate Kane. That doesnt mean I dont rate Kane.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 20, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Totally disagree with this, Son if anything is underrated. Hes fantastic and a real threat offensively

If I had a choice of any spurs player I'd have SON at Anfield no problem.
		
Click to expand...

Yes as a player I agree.
But his tackling needs a bit of work!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I would take Son as well , very much underrated and would be a great fit for the way we play

Kane isnâ€™t the type of player who would fit in with the way out front three work so Son for me would be the better fit
		
Click to expand...

I think Kane would adapt to any team .
He would fit into Liverpool no problem imo.
It would give us options in attacking.
We would lose Firminos work rate but gain a quality finisher.
Canâ€™t see it anyway so itâ€™s irelavent.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 20, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think Kane would adapt to any team .
He would fit into Liverpool no problem imo.
It would give us options in attacking.
We would lose Firminos work rate but gain a quality finisher.
Canâ€™t see it anyway so itâ€™s irelavent.
		
Click to expand...

Son could play in any of the front 3 pisitions and still score/assist, kane couldn't. Anyway its all hypothetical.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 20, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Son could play in any of the front 3 pisitions and still score/assist, kane couldn't. Anyway its all hypothetical.
		
Click to expand...

I think Kane could play Firminos role.
But my main point is it would give us options we donâ€™t have now.
Canâ€™t see Maureen letting either go.


----------



## harpo_72 (Nov 20, 2019)

Saw some decidedly dodgey article about who was on Maureenâ€™s purchase list .. matic , ibrahamovic (?) dyabla and 2 other chaps. 
He should flog Ericsson in January window and get a younger mid to replace him. 
Son could play a firminio role .. dunno why I typed that but I wonâ€™t delete it as it sounds reasonable. 
I would look for someone very fast to play up front .. Harry thrives when the defences are worrying about pace.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think Kane could play Firminos role.
But my main point is it would give us options we donâ€™t have now.
Canâ€™t see Maureen letting either go.
		
Click to expand...

Could he play Salah/Mane's role? I doubt it.

Any chance we can stop calling JM "Maureen", it's all abit  childish/bantz that's just not funny.  Not just you but generally.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2019)

harpo_72 said:



			Saw some decidedly dodgey article about who was on Maureenâ€™s purchase list .. matic , ibrahamovic (?) dyabla and 2 other chaps.
He should flog Ericsson in January window and get a younger mid to replace him.
Son could play a firminio role .. dunno why I typed that but I wonâ€™t delete it as it sounds reasonable.
I would look for someone very fast to play up front .. Harry thrives when the defences are worrying about pace.
		
Click to expand...

If JM has got any clout, he'd be best to  try and keep those players and add 1 or 2 real quality players in Jan. 

Youd have to drop Kane to get Son playing the Firmino role.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 21, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			If JM has got any clout, he'd be best to  try and keep those players and add 1 or 2 real quality players in Jan.

Youd have to drop Kane to get Son playing the Firmino role.
		
Click to expand...

Spurs have a good squad and should  keep what they have and perhaps bring in 2 quality additions.

Liverpool did so with VVD and Alisson and it improved them but it also cost Â£160M.

I canâ€™t see Spurs spending like that.


----------



## Wolf (Nov 21, 2019)

Just popped up on my news feed this morning ðŸ˜‚


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 21, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Could he play Salah/Mane's role? I doubt it.

Any chance we can stop calling JM "Maureen", it's all abit  childish/bantz that's just not funny.  Not just you but generally.
		
Click to expand...

Not every player we buy has to be able to play all roles but their finishing is nowhere near Kaneâ€™s imo.
I did say he would give us options that we donâ€™t have now.
Thatâ€™s just my opinion , canâ€™t see it anyway.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 21, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Just popped up on my news feed this morning ðŸ˜‚
View attachment 28598

Click to expand...

Touch awkward


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Just popped up on my news feed this morning ðŸ˜‚
View attachment 28598

Click to expand...

Seems fake to me. Why would he say he'll never have to work with him?


----------



## Wolf (Nov 21, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Seems fake to me. Why would he say he'll never have to work with him?
		
Click to expand...

No idea but the date was a few years ago, maybe he genuinely thought back then he wouldn't. Still it made me chuckle


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 21, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Just popped up on my news feed this morning ðŸ˜‚
View attachment 28598

Click to expand...

Slightly embarrassing, however, going by the date Alli was only 16 at the time.


----------



## Wolf (Nov 21, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Slightly embarrassing, however, going by the date Alli was only 16 at the time.
		
Click to expand...

My point exactly above, was a fair few years ago so perhaps he did say it believing he wouldn't work with Mourinho in his career at that time as he was young, still made me chuckle though.


----------



## Jensen (Nov 21, 2019)

Matic linked with a move to Tottenham surprise, surprise no thanks. He follows Mourinho like a bad smell. 
Can't believe reports that Eriksen, Alderwerald and Vertonghan are considering new deals - if anything they'll leave in January ðŸ˜„
Mourinho been given 3.5 year deal to destroy Tottenham, he'll do that by the end of next season. Only then will he walk away with another bumper payoff that could have been put to better use. 
MADNESS â˜¹ï¸


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Matic linked with a move to Tottenham surprise, surprise no thanks. He follows Mourinho like a bad smell.
Can't believe reports that Eriksen, Alderwerald and Vertonghan are considering new deals - if anything they'll leave in January ðŸ˜„
Mourinho been given 3.5 year deal to destroy Tottenham, he'll do that by the end of next season. Only then will he walk away with another bumper payoff that could have been put to better use.
MADNESS â˜¹ï¸
		
Click to expand...

Don't think Matic offers anything that Dier doesn't already, so can't see that one being genuine. I imagine we will do everything we can to sell those three in January, which means we'll need to bring two centre backs in as well as a right back. That's quite the overhaul. 

'Destroying Tottenham' is a bit dramatic don't you think? We're currently 14th in the league and he'll be lucky to get us in the top six by the end of the season anyway. How much worse can he make it? My only concern is Kane potentially following Poch to his new club, wherever that may be, but I feel like that would happen with or without Mourinho at the club.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 21, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Matic linked with a move to Tottenham surprise, surprise no thanks. He follows Mourinho like a bad smell.
Can't believe reports that Eriksen, Alderwerald and Vertonghan are considering new deals - if anything they'll leave in January ðŸ˜„
Mourinho been given 3.5 year deal to destroy Tottenham, he'll do that by the end of next season. Only then will he walk away with another bumper payoff that could have been put to better use.
MADNESS â˜¹ï¸
		
Click to expand...

Mate, deep breath, youâ€™ll be celebrating with the other Spurs fans when he gets you silverware.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 21, 2019)

â€œIf any Spurs fans need emotional support following the sacking of Poch they have set up a Helpline. 0800 101010
Thatâ€™s 0800 won nothing, won nothing, won nothingâ€

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 21, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			If any Spurs fans need emotional support following the sacking of Poch they have set up a Helpline. 0800 101010
Thatâ€™s 0800 won nothing, won nothing, won nothing

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

The 1990s called, they want their joke back.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 21, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Spurs have a good squad and should  keep what they have and perhaps bring in 2 quality additions.
*
Liverpool did so with VVD and Alisson and it improved them but it also cost Â£160M.*

I canâ€™t see Spurs spending like that.
		
Click to expand...

Or it only cost Â£40m + Coutinho ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Jensen (Nov 21, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Mate, deep breath, youâ€™ll be celebrating with the other Spurs fans when he gets you silverware. 

Click to expand...

That he may do, but at what long term cost and damage coupled with DULL football.


----------



## Fish (Nov 21, 2019)

ðŸ˜‚ gotta love footy sometimes, now letâ€™s have West Spam spoil the party ðŸ˜œ

#TheForgottenOne


----------



## Jensen (Nov 21, 2019)

Fish said:



			ðŸ˜‚ gotta love footy sometimes, now letâ€™s have West Spam spoil the party ðŸ˜œ

#TheForgottenOne
		
Click to expand...

#ThePoisionOne


----------



## robinthehood (Nov 22, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Seems fake to me. Why would he say he'll never have to work with him?
		
Click to expand...

It is fake and say what you like about JM , he's box office still and I'll be keeping an eye on how they fair with him.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 22, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Or it only cost Â£40m + Coutinho ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

Only, lol.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 22, 2019)

Well it's a good start. Hopefully just the beginning of football taking a firm stance against racism.......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50524667


----------



## Jensen (Nov 23, 2019)

2-0 up at halftime, Tottenham playing well when I have the stream. However The POISON One will still damage our club within 12 months


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 23, 2019)

Jensen said:



			2-0 up at halftime, Tottenham playing well when I have the stream. However The POISON One will still damage our club within 12 months
		
Click to expand...

I read that he will be careful with changing too much now at Spurs after what happened at Utd.

This could well be the old Mourinho and he is more at home in London.


----------



## fundy (Nov 23, 2019)

Emery be the 3rd manager to go in London this year lol, Pellegrini cant have long left watching this


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 23, 2019)

l



fundy said:



			Emery be the 3rd manager to go in London this year lol, Pellegrini cant have long left watching this
		
Click to expand...

Anderson has seemed to have stopped playing for him 

Didn't run all half... Hooked at half time 

Been like that since after the palace game 

Rumours of Haller unhappy and wanting out.. which watching him past few games he doesn't seem interested 

Is the issue MP lack of motivation? Who knows .. something seriously wrong now

Tough run of games coming up

Gone from dreaming of top 8 to hoping for 17th!


----------



## ger147 (Nov 23, 2019)

Good start for Jose, will be interesting to see how he gets on at Old Trafford on 4th December and also what sort of reception he gets from the home crowd.

Got a decent run of games before then to get some momentum going as the upcoming fixtures don't look the toughest.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 23, 2019)

Yes antonio 

Nothing left in this game.. however glad he's back 

Not been same since get got injured 

Pure desire.. trumps.ability lol


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 23, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Yes antonio 

Nothing left in this game.. however glad he's back 

Not been same since get got injured 

Pure desire.. trumps.ability lol
		
Click to expand...

Just gonna say it again. So glad he's back!!! 

2 goals he basically caused.. however we were 3-0 down and spurs didn't have to play anymore


----------



## Jensen (Nov 23, 2019)

Please, please NO. Why are Tottenham singing that horrible Chelsea song (F**k em all United, West Ham Liverpool). That's not US leave it well alone. ðŸ™„


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 23, 2019)

Great dive by Kane........


----------



## Wolf (Nov 23, 2019)

Losing at home already to Southampton.. Yet some say Emery is doing a decent job ðŸ™„


----------



## fundy (Nov 23, 2019)

#EmeryOut


----------



## fundy (Nov 23, 2019)

20 minutes in weve had 1 shot compared to Saints 6 shots, wtf is going on again


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 23, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Losing at home already to Southampton.. Yet some say Emery is doing a decent job ðŸ™„
		
Click to expand...

Not heard that, but heard most people say that he should have more time.


----------



## Wolf (Nov 23, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Not heard that, but heard most people say that he should have more time.
		
Click to expand...

Funny because most people seem to say the opposite that he needs to go


----------



## Jensen (Nov 23, 2019)

There's a Poison One you can have from N17 ðŸ‘


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 23, 2019)

Hmmmmm, everyone but Thommo says the goal should have counted. Havenâ€™t seen it, but the sceptic in me says the whole point of VAR to treat everyone seems a farce.....


----------



## fundy (Nov 23, 2019)

VAR doing its thing again 

2 shots for Arsenal 10 shots for Southampton at Emirates at HT

Nothings changed, constantly giving away possession trying to play out from the back, players look so uncomfortable yet again. Someone pull the plug please, do it at HT ffs


----------



## Fish (Nov 23, 2019)

VAR must be on Liverpools Christmas card list!


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 23, 2019)

Can't believe we are getting battered at home by an outfit as bad as Southampton. It's embarassing. Emery should walk, not wait for the boot.


----------



## Fish (Nov 23, 2019)

2 or possibly 3 more managers unemployed by Monday me thinks.


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 23, 2019)

Well we are behind again. How much more time does this prat need? Rodgers has been at Leicester way less time, and has them playing lovely footy.


----------



## Wolf (Nov 23, 2019)

Getting schooled by Southampton at home Emery needs to go....


----------



## fundy (Nov 23, 2019)

lol at the commentary, arsenal on their 3rd formation of the day with pepe at right wing back......

how much more


----------



## Wolf (Nov 23, 2019)

fundy said:



			lol at the commentary, arsenal on their 3rd formation of the day with pepe at right wing back......

how much more
		
Click to expand...

He's clueless, tactically inept and getting far to much leeway at board level they need to grow some cojones and pull the trigger


----------



## fundy (Nov 23, 2019)

that goal better not keep him his job!!!!!!


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 23, 2019)

That is what I was thinking!

Clueless. Utterly clueless.

Both him, the board, and the owners.

The only reason to keep him is if they really don't have a scooby as to what to do next. Just like they didn't when they binned AW.


----------



## GG26 (Nov 23, 2019)

Keep going Leicester ðŸ˜€


----------



## fundy (Nov 23, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			That is what I was thinking!

Clueless. Utterly clueless.

Both him, the board, and the owners.

The only reason to keep him is if they really don't have a scooby as to what to do next. Just like they didn't when they binned AW.
		
Click to expand...


promote the tea lady till the end of the season if they have to!


----------



## Jensen (Nov 23, 2019)

fundy said:



			promote the tea lady till the end of the season if they have to!
		
Click to expand...

Sadly, you've got a vending machine ðŸ˜„


----------



## Wolf (Nov 23, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Sadly, you've got a vending machine ðŸ˜„
		
Click to expand...

Which has more tactical nous than our manager ðŸ™„ðŸ˜‚


----------



## fundy (Nov 23, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Sadly, you've got a vending machine ðŸ˜„
		
Click to expand...


looks like its being promoted then haha


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 23, 2019)

That result hurts and so does the performance.

I still believe in patience but with Poch now suddenly available I think the board should probably make a move for him while they have the opportunity.

He knows our league and has proven himself at Spurs.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2019)

The Klopp Express rolls on after another successful trip to South East London ðŸ˜


----------



## Fish (Nov 23, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			That result hurts and so does the performance.

I still believe in patience but with Poch now suddenly available I think the board should probably make a move for him while they have the opportunity.

He knows our league and has proven himself at Spurs.
		
Click to expand...

Heâ€™ll go to Bayern Munich. 

Da Silva will be free in a couple of days, or Pellegrini.


----------



## Fish (Nov 23, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The Klopp Express rolls on after another successful trip to South East London ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Only the result was a success, you were woeful and didnâ€™t deserve the 3 points, but youâ€™ve got them and yous will take them.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 23, 2019)

Fish said:



			Heâ€™ll go to Bayern Munich.

Da Silva will be free in a couple of days, or Pellegrini.
		
Click to expand...

Possibly, who knows if he wants to go to Germany though.

If he wants to stay in London there could well be a vacancy at Arsenal very soon.

Spurs showed no loyalty to him so it might not worry him moving to the biggest club in London. ðŸ˜—


----------



## chrisd (Nov 23, 2019)

Good goal Chelsea


----------



## Fish (Nov 23, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Possibly, who knows if he wants to go to Germany though.

*If he wants to stay in London there could well be a vacancy at Arsenal very soon.*

Spurs showed no loyalty to him so it might not worry him moving to the biggest club in London. ðŸ˜—
		
Click to expand...

With not winning anything for ages, he would be well suited to you, but then heâ€™d suit all the London clubs except Chelsea ðŸ˜


----------



## chrisd (Nov 23, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The Klopp Express rolls on after another successful trip to South East London ðŸ˜
		
Click to expand...

Mmmmmm VAR rules ðŸ¤”


----------



## Fish (Nov 23, 2019)

It was coming, weâ€™ve looked dangerous, our midfield is bossing them.


----------



## harpo_72 (Nov 23, 2019)

Phew my fantasy football team has got some points! Been rubbish of late but I was taking one for the team with 2 Man City defenders...


----------



## Fish (Nov 23, 2019)

Poor goal to concede, City lucky in the build up then a deflection to wrong foot the keeper, were more than in this game though.


----------



## Fish (Nov 23, 2019)

Shocking by Emerson then, allowing Mahez to step inside and take 3 players out.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 23, 2019)

Fish said:



			It was coming, weâ€™ve looked dangerous, our midfield is bossing them.
		
Click to expand...

OGS won his first 13 games and look at Utd now.

Very early days for Lampard but I must admit they have played some good stuff under him so far.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 23, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			OGS won his first 13 games and look at Utd now.

Very early days for Lampard but I must admit they have played some good stuff under him so far.
		
Click to expand...

He only won 10 from 11, so not sure how he got to 13....


----------



## Fish (Nov 23, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			He only won 10 from 11, so not sure how he got to 13....
		
Click to expand...

He used the Diane Abacus method ðŸ˜


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 23, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			He only won 10 from 11, so not sure how he got to 13....
		
Click to expand...

ok thought it was 13/14 , you get the point.


----------



## Fish (Nov 23, 2019)

chrisd said:



			Mmmmmm VAR rules ðŸ¤”
		
Click to expand...

liVARpool ðŸ˜œ


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 23, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Possibly, who knows if he wants to go to Germany though.

If he wants to stay in London there could well be a vacancy at Arsenal very soon.

Spurs showed no loyalty to him so it might not worry him moving to the biggest club in London. ðŸ˜—
		
Click to expand...

Pooch going to Palace ?
What happened to ROY.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 23, 2019)

Fish said:



			liVARpool ðŸ˜œ
		
Click to expand...

Watched all the pundits on BT sports today .
Talking to the resident ref .
They were all laughing and shaking their heads when he was explaining ( excusing ) the VAR decisions.
There is a flaw in the way the decisions are explained as we donâ€™t see whatâ€™s happening.


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 23, 2019)

VAR, what a joke. Defenders boot Vs strikers shoulder?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 23, 2019)

Fish said:



			Only the result was a success, you were woeful and didnâ€™t deserve the 3 points, but youâ€™ve got them and yous will take them.
		
Click to expand...

Lots of teams that have been champions in the past win games when not playing well.
You have to do that.
Top and bottom is palaces finishing wasnâ€™t good enough.
If you donâ€™t take your chances you donâ€™t win.


----------



## fundy (Nov 23, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			VAR, what a joke. Defenders boot Vs strikers shoulder?
		
Click to expand...

03.5 backer seething here!


----------



## Fish (Nov 23, 2019)

If there was a match to put a red line through, it was always going to be this one. 

I thought we had a good first half but offered nothing in the second. 

Need to see Recce James start from now on. 

Our Achilles heal is our defence, weâ€™ll continue to leak goals unfortunately, but 7 points ahead of 5th & 3 points from 2nd place isnâ€™t bad for a team written off before a ball was kicked this season. 

Once we can strengthen our defence I think we have the core to be a great team, itâ€™s not going to take much, but we can only get and grow stronger.


----------



## davemc1 (Nov 23, 2019)

Hey Norfolk Shaun, what times motd on bro?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 23, 2019)

I think there is enough about Chelsea to be very positive under Lampard. As for Emry....The clock is ticking. He has to go. If you can't win home games especially against mid-table sides then you can have no aspirations for a top 4 finish


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 23, 2019)

Fish said:



			If there was a match to put a red line through, it was always going to be this one.

I thought we had a good first half but offered nothing in the second.

Need to see Recce James start from now on.

Our Achilles heal is our defence, weâ€™ll continue to leak goals unfortunately, but 7 points ahead of 5th & 3 points from 2nd place isnâ€™t bad for a team written off before a ball was kicked this season.

Once we can strengthen our defence I think we have the core to be a great team, itâ€™s not going to take much, but we can only get and grow stronger.
		
Click to expand...

Disagree, you need 2 top strikers as well at least.

Now if you had Laca and Auba youâ€™d be in business.

Canâ€™t see Abraham and Bat.... being good enough for Chelsea long term.

Arsenal problems atm are plenty I know but the front two could easily play in any team. We just cant supply them well enough to do them justice.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 23, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			VAR, what a joke. Defenders boot Vs strikers shoulder?
		
Click to expand...

Dont worry theyâ€™ve got a top man now at FiFa and he will sort it! ðŸ‘


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2019)

Fish said:



			Only the result was a success, you were woeful and didnâ€™t deserve the 3 points, but youâ€™ve got them and yous will take them.
		
Click to expand...

Palace is a bit of a bogey ground for us and though we weren't great I think on the balance of play we deserved the win. 

All aboard choo choo...... ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2019)

Fish said:



			liVARpool ðŸ˜œ
		
Click to expand...

I love these shouts. 

One blooooo last season in the boozer said  " wait until VAR comes in, yous  will be a mid table side", saw him the day after City game " they've only brought VAR in so yous can win the league"  ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## fundy (Nov 23, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I think there is enough about Chelsea to be very positive under Lampard. As for Emry....The clock is ticking. He has to go. If you can't win home games especially against mid-table sides then you can have no aspirations for a top 4 finish
		
Click to expand...


mid table???? thats the 2nd bottom 3 side that have had double the shots we did in a game lol


----------



## Piece (Nov 23, 2019)

Jeez, Burnley are a real hard watch.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Hey Norfolk Shaun, what times motd on bro?
		
Click to expand...

Pauldj will know ðŸ¤­ðŸ¤­


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 23, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Pauldj will know ðŸ¤­ðŸ¤­
		
Click to expand...

I canâ€™t answer Daveâ€™s posts mate, he chucks his toys.


----------



## Bazzatron (Nov 23, 2019)

Piece said:



			Jeez, Burnley are a real hard watch.
		
Click to expand...

Awful aren't they? Time wasting from the first whistle I'm guessing?


----------



## Bazzatron (Nov 23, 2019)

Doing a Burnley ay we?


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			I canâ€™t answer Daveâ€™s posts mate, he chucks his toys.

Click to expand...

What times MOTD on bro? 


ðŸ¤­


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 23, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			What times MOTD on bro?


ðŸ¤­
		
Click to expand...

Donâ€™t watch it mate, Sky App, all the goals from 5:15pm.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 23, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			Awful aren't they? Time wasting from the first whistle I'm guessing?
		
Click to expand...

Think I said that when City played them and it came across as bitter. They are woeful.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Donâ€™t watch it mate, Sky App, all the goals from 5:15pm.

Click to expand...

I'll be watching it tonight and the replay in the morning ðŸ˜‰

I never got to listen to Radio Merseyside phone in after the game, I'll have to get that on catch up ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Think I said that when City played them and it came across as bitter. They are woeful.
		
Click to expand...

And Dyche gets talked up in the media as this great coach/manager. Cut ftom the same cloth as Allardyce.


----------



## fundy (Nov 23, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I'll be watching it tonight and the replay in the morning ðŸ˜‰

I never got to listen to Radio Merseyside phone in after the game, I'll have to get that on catch up ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...


dont forget to leave room for AFTV fam


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2019)

fundy said:



			dont forget to leave room for AFTV fam 

Click to expand...

I forgot about them bad boys, I'll be up all night at this rate ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Arsenal took 12 players out of our LMS this week so I was happy


----------



## davemc1 (Nov 23, 2019)

My Evertonian mate asked me if I knew any good holiday destinations in the winter.

I said to him.." You can't beat the Canaries this time of the year."


----------



## Piece (Nov 23, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			Awful aren't they? Time wasting from the first whistle I'm guessing?
		
Click to expand...

Yes and yes. Anti football is the right phrase.


----------



## Bazzatron (Nov 23, 2019)

Piece said:



			Yes and yes. Anti football is the right phrase.
		
Click to expand...

Did the same at ours, ball must've been out of play nearly as much as it was in.


----------



## Jensen (Nov 23, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			My Evertonian mate asked me if I knew any good holiday destinations in the winter.

I said to him.." You can't beat the Canaries this time of the year."
		
Click to expand...

You sound like a reincarnated version of Stan Boardman ðŸ˜‚


----------



## fundy (Nov 23, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I forgot about them bad boys, I'll be up all night at this rate ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Arsenal took 12 players out of our LMS this week so I was happy
		
Click to expand...


lol why would you choose them currently, save them till the new manager comes in haha


----------



## Swingalot (Nov 23, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Palace is a bit of a bogey ground for us and though we weren't great I think on the balance of play we deserved the win.

All aboard choo choo...... ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

Nearly for us today,but


Stuart_C said:



			Palace is a bit of a bogey ground for us and though we weren't great I think on the balance of play we deserved the win.

All aboard choo choo...... ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

Thought we had you today, but as they say a very good side sometimes finds a way to win.

Not blaming him, bad for both sides, but Kevin Friend is useless! Just ignores some things, would rather not make a call.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2019)

Swingalot said:



			Nearly for us today,but


Thought we had you today, but as they say a very good side sometimes finds a way to win.

Not blaming him, bad for both sides, but Kevin Friend is useless! Just ignores some things, would rather not make a call.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree about Friend, atrocious ref. 

I thought the free kick given for the disallowed goal was shocking, Zaha definitely "won" that one.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2019)

fundy said:



			lol why would you choose them currently, save them till the new manager comes in haha
		
Click to expand...

I nearly picked them til I seen the light and realised Spurs always beat West Ham so picked them. Theres only 8 of us left in it, with 2 waiting on Villa on Monday night.


----------



## fundy (Nov 23, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I nearly picked them til I seen the light and realised Spurs always beat West Ham so picked them. Theres only 8 of us left in it, with 2 waiting on Villa on Monday night.
		
Click to expand...


feel dirty, even i backed spurs today lol


----------



## Swingalot (Nov 23, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Totally agree about Friend, atrocious ref.

I thought the free kick given for the disallowed goal was shocking, Zaha definitely "won" that one.
		
Click to expand...

Yep. He makes some very very odd calls. Gave us a corner right in front of me and it clearly came off Wilf last and not TAA. Seems to get all the players wound up with bad calls more than any ref. 

Anyway, decent game, would have been better with a point though!


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 23, 2019)

Seriously impressed with Lampard and how he's handled himself and sets Chelsea up. They're playing a modern style and are great to watch. He comes across superbly at all times too. Compare him to Ole at Man Utd and the difference is unbelievable.

This Chelsea side is genuinely pretty average individually but he's getting the best out of almost every player and has created a lovely way of playing already. If you add a top class keeper, centre back, winger and striker over the next few windows and the young players improve and so does Lampard - they'll have a very strong side.

They were lucky not to be hit for 5-6 this evening after the bright start though. City were so wasteful. Ageuro has looked off the pace for weeks now so this injury is probably a good thing. Oh and if Mendy is worth Â£50m then Alex-Arnold is worth Â£500m


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 23, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I'll be watching it tonight and the replay in the morning ðŸ˜‰

I never got to listen to Radio Merseyside phone in after the game, I'll have to get that on catch up ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

They didnt sound fit again.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 23, 2019)

Swingalot said:



			Nearly for us today,but


Thought we had you today, but as they say a very good side sometimes finds a way to win.

Not blaming him, bad for both sides, but Kevin Friend is useless! Just ignores some things, would rather not make a call.
		
Click to expand...

He is woeful Kevin Friend, your right there, alright.


----------



## Norrin Radd (Nov 24, 2019)

Just watched the Brighton leicester game on sky and how Brighton didn't get a penalty I really don't know .and then they get the softest one given against them . 
 The game has gone to hell in a hand cart with all this var bollox


----------



## Wolf (Nov 24, 2019)

Just watched the highlights or should that be lowlights of the arsenal game. Our defence  has got to stop trying to play out from the back, Guendozi is a talent but his lack of experience is showing, Torreira giving the ball away as he looks deflated and uninspired, Pepe supposed to be a major attacking threat for 75m on the bench against a team like Southampton but then gets switched to wing back which brings me on to the manager who in the game played 3 different formations because he didn't know what to do... I don't like to be negative about my own club but we don't even look top 10 with the amount of chances we concede, the players look bereft of ideas and fed up, if it wasn't for Leno and Southampton inept finishing that could have been an absolute  mauling.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 24, 2019)

Yesterday seems less depressing as was expecting a loss.. then when Jose took over was expecting a battering 

To come out with 2 goals when we have been awful going forward gives slim hopes 

Only thing that proper bugged me yest was officials again. How can diop get a booking for being fouled by Kane? He was pulling diop by his arm to the ground.. so didn't just give the foul the wrong way he then booked him (banning him for a game) in 2019 wish officials still weren't one of the worst parts of the game 

Kane looked fired up yest , can only be good for England


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 24, 2019)

Torreira is done at Arsenal. He just looks completely disinterested. Emery has sucked the life out of a decent player.


----------



## Wolf (Nov 24, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Torreira is done at Arsenal. He just looks completely disinterested. Emery has sucked the life out of a decent player.
		
Click to expand...

Completely agree Murph, Torreira only refinds form and desire by switching manager or clubs, the reports are he wants out in January.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 24, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			My Evertonian mate asked me if I knew any good holiday destinations in the winter.

I said to him.." You can't beat the Canaries this time of the year."
		
Click to expand...

Am sure I heard that at the start of the season ðŸ˜–


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 24, 2019)

4LEX said:



			Seriously impressed with Lampard and how he's handled himself and sets Chelsea up. They're playing a modern style and are great to watch. He comes across superbly at all times too. Compare him to Ole at Man Utd and the difference is unbelievable.

This Chelsea side is genuinely pretty average individually but he's getting the best out of almost every player and has created a lovely way of playing already. If you add a top class keeper, centre back, winger and striker over the next few windows and the young players improve and so does Lampard - they'll have a very strong side.

They were lucky not to be hit for 5-6 this evening after the bright start though. City were so wasteful. Ageuro has looked off the pace for weeks now so this injury is probably a good thing. Oh and if Mendy is worth Â£50m then Alex-Arnold is worth Â£500m 

Click to expand...

That assessment of Mendy is spot on, when he first came to City his pace and ball crossing was immense. IT lasted about 2 weeks then he got injured. He has never got back to the player he was.
 Watched the game at home having been on a two day course, it endorsed my thoughts re VAR. Thought the decision re sterling goal was a shocker. But again once more in the stadium you do not know what is going on. Sat at home in front of your log fire, your going through replays, commentary etc, and there still getting it wrong. Every player on the pitch thought it was a goal. Every time some one scores you cheer then expect to get kicked in the goolies.

A couple of years ago City started playing out from the back, it was squeaky bum time. They have now kinda perfected it. Watching Chelsea, Arsenal and England and others is like watching City when Pep first came. Some players ( like Joe Hart ) just cannot do it.


----------



## Jensen (Nov 24, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Yesterday seems less depressing as was expecting a loss.. then when Jose took over was expecting a battering

To come out with 2 goals when we have been awful going forward gives slim hopes

Only thing that proper bugged me yest was officials again. How can diop get a booking for being fouled by Kane? He was pulling diop by his arm to the ground.. so didn't just give the foul the wrong way he then booked him (banning him for a game) in 2019 wish officials still weren't one of the worst parts of the game

Kane looked fired up yest , can only be good for England
		
Click to expand...

Even I can't believe how that free kick was awarded to Kane, he clearly pulled the player by locking arms with him.


----------



## Jensen (Nov 24, 2019)

You Gooner fans must be amazed by the signing of David Luiz. Technically he has fantastic ability with 2 great feet, but a defender he is not all day. I think he would be more suited to a midfield role.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 24, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Even I can't believe how that free kick was awarded to Kane, he clearly pulled the player by locking arms with him.
		
Click to expand...

Luckily nothing really amounted from that .. yes he's banned for a game but that could have come the game after .. will get booked soon 

Apparently fabainski back in 2 weeks. 2 weeks too long. Roberto was pathetic again yest ... Two of those goals were average finishes .. no offence any other keeper would prob have kept sons and Kane's goals out


----------



## fundy (Nov 24, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Torreira is done at Arsenal. He just looks completely disinterested. Emery has sucked the life out of a decent player.
		
Click to expand...


Dick criticising him and pointing out how much better he was last year not really helping when Dick has then proceded to barely select him then play him out of position when he has. Torreira and Ramsey, no no no, Ill put all my eggs in the Zhaka basket lol


----------



## fundy (Nov 24, 2019)

Jensen said:



			You Gooner fans must be amazed by the signing of David Luiz. Technically he has fantastic ability with 2 great feet, but a defender he is not all day. I think he would be more suited to a midfield role.
		
Click to expand...

Was clear evidence that priorities were wrong and said so at the time. How that was the answer to our defensive issues Ill never know whilst we spent splashing big money elsewhere as has been typical at Arsenal for a good decade we refuse to address the glaring issues


----------



## Fade and Die (Nov 24, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Yesterday seems less depressing as was expecting a loss.. then when Jose took over was expecting a battering

*To come out with 2 goals when we have been awful going forward gives slim hopes*

Only thing that proper bugged me yest was officials again. How can diop get a booking for being fouled by Kane? He was pulling diop by his arm to the ground.. so didn't just give the foul the wrong way he then booked him (banning him for a game) in 2019 wish officials still weren't one of the worst parts of the game

Kane looked fired up yest , can only be good for England
		
Click to expand...

Just like the Newcastle game, that scoreline polishes a huge turd. We were abject yesterday in the first half, we have been played off the park by Burnley, Newcastle and a Spurs side low on confidence who havenâ€™t won away this season! 
I think Pelleâ€™s race is run, we lack ideas and energy. He plays the same style week in week out and we look like relegation fodder at the moment.

As for Spuds....They were very poor 2nd half, feigning injuries, tactical fouling, kicking the ball away, diving. Donâ€™t think they will enjoy the anti football style that is Mourinho.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 24, 2019)

Fade and Die said:



			Just like the Newcastle game, that scoreline polishes a huge turd. We were abject yesterday in the first half, we have been played off the park by Burnley, Newcastle and a Spurs side low on confidence who havenâ€™t won away this season! 
I think Pelleâ€™s race is run, we lack ideas and energy. He plays the same style week in week out and we look like relegation fodder at the moment.

As for Spuds....They were very poor 2nd half, feigning injuries, tactical fouling, kicking the ball away, diving. Donâ€™t think they will enjoy the anti football style that is Mourinho.
		
Click to expand...

Whilst I agree it polishes a bit.. don't overlook Antonio being back. He cares far more than others who have more ability 

Looking at Anderson .. proper lazy


----------



## Fade and Die (Nov 24, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Whilst I agree it polishes a bit.. don't overlook Antonio being back. He cares far more than others who have more ability

Looking at Anderson .. proper lazy
		
Click to expand...

Antonio was a breath of fresh air! Energetic and direct, just what we needed. Anderson and Yarmolenko both seem poor at the moment but I wonder if they way we are set up makes it worse. Playing with 2 wingers with a middle two of Noble/snodrass and Rice means we will get dominated every week. And you can see the frustration on Hallers face every game, he is starved of service.


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 24, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			That assessment of Mendy is spot on, when he first came to City his pace and ball crossing was immense. IT lasted about 2 weeks then he got injured. He has never got back to the player he was.
Watched the game at home having been on a two day course, it endorsed my thoughts re VAR. Thought the decision re sterling goal was a shocker. But again once more in the stadium you do not know what is going on. Sat at home in front of your log fire, your going through replays, commentary etc, and there still getting it wrong. Every player on the pitch thought it was a goal. Every time some one scores you cheer then expect to get kicked in the goolies.

A couple of years ago City started playing out from the back, it was squeaky bum time. They have now kinda perfected it. Watching Chelsea, Arsenal and England and others is like watching City when Pep first came. Some players ( like Joe Hart ) just cannot do it.
		
Click to expand...

The problem with Mendy was he only ever had a few good games at home when City were battering sides. He's been injured/regaining fitness/form for almost his entire time at the club. To me he just isn't a Pep or a City player and never will be. Woeful touch, headless chicken and clumsy. Very much the left sided version of Aurier at Spurs. I never thought we'd see a bigger waste of money than Bakayoko at Chelsea but Mendy has to be up there. You watch the likes of Robertson and Chilwell and it highlights the difference. But the midfield and attack is so good you can get away with it!

Agree on VAR. Sterling's goal was surely onside or if you have to look at it 4-5 times to make a call give the benefit to the attacker!


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 24, 2019)

4LEX said:



			The problem with Mendy was he only ever had a few good games at home when City were battering sides. He's been injured/regaining fitness/form for almost his entire time at the club. To me he just isn't a Pep or a City player and never will be. Woeful touch, headless chicken and clumsy. Very much the left sided version of Aurier at Spurs. I never thought we'd see a bigger waste of money than Bakayoko at Chelsea but Mendy has to be up there. You watch the likes of Robertson and Chilwell and it highlights the difference. But the midfield and attack is so good you can get away with it!

Agree on VAR. Sterling's goal was surely onside or if you have to look at it 4-5 times to make a call give the benefit to the attacker!
		
Click to expand...

Watched Mendy ( and Bernado Silva) in Monaco when they battered City in the Champs league. That Monaco team was as good as I have seen. Mendy in a good team was outstanding. But he just has not delivered, the rumours on the City sites I visit, Pep is not happy with his progress.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 24, 2019)

Fade and Die said:



			Antonio was a breath of fresh air! Energetic and direct, just what we needed. Anderson and Yarmolenko both seem poor at the moment but I wonder if they way we are set up makes it worse. Playing with 2 wingers with a middle two of Noble/snodrass and Rice means we will get dominated every week. And you can see the frustration on Hallers face every game, he is starved of service.
		
Click to expand...

Yarmelenko for me isn't a problem. He has been very good in games for us.. few assists and goals 

We know he isnt pacey but he uses his brain 

Anderson has been awful. He is pacey but doesn't beat his man enough

Needs a drop to bench


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2019)

4LEX said:



			The problem with Mendy was he only ever had a few good games at home when City were battering sides. He's been injured/regaining fitness/form for almost his entire time at the club. To me he just isn't a Pep or a City player and never will be. Woeful touch, headless chicken and clumsy. Very much the left sided version of Aurier at Spurs. I never thought we'd see a bigger waste of money than Bakayoko at Chelsea but Mendy has to be up there. You watch the likes of Robertson and Chilwell and it highlights the difference. But the midfield and attack is so good you can get away with it!

Agree on VAR. Sterling's goal was surely onside or if you have to look at it 4-5 times to make a call give the benefit to the attacker!
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but Mendy is a superb left back and when fit is up there with the best , he hasnâ€™t had a consistent run in the team since he arrived at City because of some serious injuries. He is quality


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 24, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but Mendy is a superb left back and when fit is up there with the best , he hasnâ€™t had a consistent run in the team since he arrived at City because of some serious injuries. He is quality
		
Click to expand...

He Certainly WAS a great LB, hence city paying the fee. But he's played 20 games in 2.5 seasons and the last couple haven't been fab. 

He needs a good run to prove if he's still the player they bought or not.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 24, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			That result hurts and so does the performance.

I still believe in patience but with Poch now suddenly available I think the board should probably make a move for him while they have the opportunity.

He knows our league and has proven himself at Spurs.
		
Click to expand...

Hahaha. I think his stock has already risen higher than the likes of Arsenal, plus he once said he would never manage Barca because he'd previously managed Espanyol. So I'd be shocked if he does a Sol Campbell.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 24, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but Mendy is a superb left back and when fit is up there with the best , he hasnâ€™t had a consistent run in the team since he arrived at City because of some serious injuries. He is quality
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, when he started he was tearing team apart down the left along with Sane. Probably better going forward than defending but still had the physicality to get back. The injuries and operations he's had must have taken their toll a bit. And Pep obviously doesn't trust him now when he's playing the likes of Zinchenko and that Angelino(?) ahead of him.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2019)

Well I thought last year West Ham would struggle but looks like I was a year out

So will one of West Ham or Everton go down ? Right now neither team can get a result - will they take the plunge and sack another manager ? They have both gone through a fair few


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 24, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well I thought last year West Ham would struggle but looks like I was a year out

So will one of West Ham or Everton go down ? Right now neither team can get a result - will they take the plunge and sack another manager ? They have both gone through a fair few
		
Click to expand...

Everton desperately need to get rid of Silva. He is clueless.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 24, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Everton desperately need to get rid of Silva. He is clueless.
		
Click to expand...

I disagree, he needs time to settle his new signings ðŸ¤­ðŸ¤­


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 24, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Hahaha. I think his stock has already risen higher than the likes of Arsenal, plus he once said he would never manage Barca because he'd previously managed Espanyol. So I'd be shocked if he does a Sol Campbell.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah just like when Mourinho said that he would never manage Spurs when he was at Chelsea.

Spurs shat on Poch do you really think he would not go there for Â£8M a year?

I wouldnâ€™t rule it out.


----------



## Jensen (Nov 24, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah just like when Mourinho said that he would never manage Spurs when he was at Chelsea.

Spurs shat on Poch do you really think he would not go there for Â£8M a year?

I wouldnâ€™t rule it out.
		
Click to expand...

So that will be another Yid "who didn't cost a quid" ðŸ˜¬


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah just like when Mourinho said that he would never manage Spurs when he was at Chelsea.

Spurs shat on Poch do you really think he would not go there for Â£8M a year?

I wouldnâ€™t rule it out.
		
Click to expand...

Pochettino is not going to go to Arsenal - his stock is higher than that at the moment even without the whole Spurs issue , 

He will end up at Munich , PSG or Madrid


----------



## Wolf (Nov 24, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah just like when Mourinho said that he would never manage Spurs when he was at Chelsea.

Spurs shat on Poch do you really think he would not go there for Â£8M a year?

I wouldnâ€™t rule it out.
		
Click to expand...

I would hugely rule out Poch coming to us, he's already been at a club that gave hine nothing to spend why bother coming to another one where we aren't currently showing ambition of muscling back into the top echelon of the league. His stock has risen and will be wanted by teams that are competing at the business end of their leagues and that's where he'll go. 

I'd love to see Emery gone but we won't be getting Poch has has other ambitions.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 24, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Pochettino is not going to go to Arsenal - his stock is higher than that at the moment even without the whole Spurs issue ,

He will end up at Munich , PSG or Madrid
		
Click to expand...

Youâ€™re probably right and Emery is still  in a job anyway.

It just wouldnâ€™t shock or surprise me in the least if it happened though.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 24, 2019)

Wolf said:



			I would hugely rule out Poch coming to us, he's already been at a club that gave hine nothing to spend why bother coming to another one where we aren't currently showing ambition of muscling back into the top echelon of the league. His stock has risen and will be wanted by teams that are competing at the business end of their leagues and that's where he'll go.

I'd love to see Emery gone but we won't be getting Poch has has other ambitions.
		
Click to expand...

I think his stock just went up a notch.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 24, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Pochettino is not going to go to Arsenal - his stock is higher than that at the moment even without the whole Spurs issue ,

He will end up at Munich , PSG or Madrid
		
Click to expand...

Exactly this.

I don't think Poch would refuse Arsenal out of loyalty. More out of ambition.

His stock has him geared to top tier clubs. Arsenal atm is sideways at best.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 24, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Exactly this.

I don't think Poch would refuse Arsenal out of loyalty. More out of ambition.

His stock has him geared to top tier clubs. Arsenal atm is sideways at best.
		
Click to expand...

What about Utd?

Thatâ€™s a step up.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 24, 2019)

Anyone who thinks Arsenal arent a step up from Spurs is deluded. Arsenal are and always will be a bigger club. 

Spurs have got a better side right now but with a bit of good coaching, couple of signings defensively and a midfielder or 2 Arsenal are a better side.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			What about Utd?

Thatâ€™s a step up.
		
Click to expand...

He would go to Utd because they are one of the biggest in the world and he would be heavily backed financially

Arsenal are a bigger club than Spurs but a mess on the pitch


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 24, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He would go to Utd because they are one of the biggest in the world and he would be heavily backed financially
		
Click to expand...

You would have thought so but you never know in football, how do we know what motivates him anyways.

If he wanted to stick one to Spurs I canâ€™t think of a better way than to go across to Arsenal.

He might want to live in Spain, learn French.

We have no idea.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 24, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			What about Utd?

Thatâ€™s a step up.
		
Click to expand...

UTD are still significantly more appealing than arsenal or spurs. They've won things even during their fallow years and have a huge budget.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			You would have thought so but you never know in football, how do we know what motivates him anyways.
		
Click to expand...

I would suspect the main motive for him is to win , 

Arsenal imo missed the boat when Wenger left - should have looked at someone like Rodger , or given Viera a go. They could prob still get Viera but Rodgers stock is also increasing


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 24, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Anyone who thinks Arsenal arent a step up from Spurs is deluded. Arsenal are and always will be a bigger club.

Spurs have got a better side right now but with a bit of good coaching, couple of signings defensively and a midfielder or 2 Arsenal are a better side.
		
Click to expand...

I don't know that you can say always. The stadium is now a match, Arsenal have been in the doldrums for a while whilst Spurs have been a team on the up, even on a European level. Historically you are right but currently and going forward it is open to question.

Back to the live match, Sheffield United are giving Man Utd a lesson first half. Great for Sheffield, disturbing for Man Utd.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 24, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Anyone who thinks Arsenal arent a step up from Spurs is deluded. Arsenal are and always will be a bigger club.

Spurs have got a better side right now but with a bit of good coaching, couple of signings defensively and a midfielder or 2 Arsenal are a better side.
		
Click to expand...

They're a bigger club no doubt.

But managers are narrow minded. Of the two I'd say spurs more geared to success. Albeit unlikely for either due to both having poor budgets.

Hence why they had to get managers from the second tier of names. Much like Liverpool did with klopp. A well thought of manager, but not the superstars they'd probably be able to appeal to when klopp leaves.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 24, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I would suspect the main motive for him is to win ,

Arsenal imo missed the boat when Wenger left - should have looked at someone like Rodger , or given Viera a go. They could prob still get Viera but Rodgers stock is also increasing
		
Click to expand...

Yes but the Arsenal manager job is one of the biggest jobs in world football.

Leicester are still a bit of a selling club with respect.


----------



## davemc1 (Nov 24, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Yes but the Arsenal manager job is one of the biggest jobs in world football.

Leicester are still a bit of a selling club with respect.
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 24, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't know that you can say always. The stadium is now a match, Arsenal have been in the doldrums for a while whilst Spurs have been a team on the up, even on a European level. Historically you are right but currently and going forward it is open to question.

Back to the live match, Sheffield United are giving Man Utd a lesson first half. Great for Sheffield, disturbing for Man Utd.
		
Click to expand...

In your opinion, what would it take for Spurs to overtake Arsenal as a bigger club?


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 24, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I would suspect the main motive for him is to win ,

Arsenal imo missed the boat when Wenger left - should have looked at someone like Rodger , or given Viera a go. They could prob still get Viera but *Rodgers stock is also increasing*

Click to expand...

Vardy is just making him look better than he is ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Yes but the Arsenal manager job is one of the biggest jobs in world football.

Leicester are still a bit of a selling club with respect.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure it is right now 

And Arsenal have also been a selling club the minute they moved into a new stadium


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 24, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			In your opinion, what would it take for Spurs to overtake Arsenal as a bigger club?
		
Click to expand...

That's a good question. A sustained period where Spurs are higher in the league, ideally win trophies, keep getting to the latter stages of the CL. At the same time it needs Arsenal to continue their inertia. If arsenal pick up then they are naturally bigger so that makes it tricky for Spurs. Time can pick away at that though. 

These things can be fluid. Chelsea were just another London team for many years but are now a big club. Wolves were a big club back in the 50's but have not been for years, they are a good club but not a big one. Villa were a big club, not now, Leeds the same. 

I'd agree that arsenal are currently still bigger than Spurs but it is a closer call now and a club does not own that title.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 24, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not sure it is right now

And Arsenal have also been a selling club the minute they moved into a new stadium
		
Click to expand...

I think I BR would take the Arsenal job if it was offered. Perhaps not immediately because he seems a honourable person and he wouldnâ€™t want to leave Leicester in the lurch but at the end of the season no doubt about it.


----------



## GG26 (Nov 24, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Yes but the Arsenal manager job is one of the biggest jobs in world football.

Leicester are still a bit of a selling club with respect.
		
Click to expand...

We are not a selling club.  We are not short of cash and within a year will have the best training centre in the country.  Yes, one or two players may have their heads turned, but where we can we will hang on to our best players.  We're certainly a more attractive proposition than Arsenal at the moment and we could be after your best players, although I don't think that there are more than one or two that would currently improve our team.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			I think I BR would take the Arsenal job if it was offered. Perhaps not immediately because he seems a honourable person and he wouldnâ€™t want to leave Leicester in the lurch but at the end of the season no doubt about it.
		
Click to expand...

I donâ€™t think he would - right now he is doing well with Leicester, some good young players and is on a bounce , at the moment they are looking like to make the CL - donâ€™t think he will leave Leicester unless there was a significant transfer budget which we all know itâ€™s available at the moment.

Think they will look at someone like Howe

But the manager they should try and tempt is Rafa , he would get better results that Emery 

And Sheff UTD right now are outclassing Man Utd


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 24, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			In your opinion, what would it take for Spurs to overtake Arsenal as a bigger club?
		
Click to expand...

1 x champions league win would be a start.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 24, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			1 x champions league win would be a start. 

Click to expand...

Nah, a premier league title or 3.

They are much harder to win than a CL.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 24, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Nah, a premier league title or 3.

They are much harder to win than a CL.
		
Click to expand...

How would you know?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2019)

Just came back downstairs and itâ€™s now 3-2 to UTD ðŸ˜² what they heck happened


----------



## Beezerk (Nov 24, 2019)

Whoop ðŸ–ðŸ–ðŸ–ðŸ–ðŸ–ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£


----------



## fundy (Nov 24, 2019)

rumour that Silva been given the tin tack by Everton on social media


----------



## Slime (Nov 24, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Yes but* the Arsenal manager job is one of the biggest jobs in world football.*
Leicester are still a bit of a selling club with respect.
		
Click to expand...

Not one of the biggest ................................. one of the hardest!


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 24, 2019)

fundy said:



			rumour that Silva been given the tin tack by Everton on social media
		
Click to expand...

Hoping they replace him with Moyes or Hughes ðŸ¤ž


----------



## Slime (Nov 24, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just came back downstairs and itâ€™s now 3-2 to UTD ðŸ˜²* what they heck happened*

Click to expand...

Ole got out of jail and Woodward has just hung up on Poch!

Some cracking goals in this game and Sheff Utd can feel well and truly mugged.
United only turned up after 70 minutes.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 24, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just came back downstairs and itâ€™s now 3-2 to UTD ðŸ˜² what they heck happened
		
Click to expand...

Not any more


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 24, 2019)

It's a goal, just give it.


----------



## Slime (Nov 24, 2019)

So a striker CAN use his arm .......................... who'd have thought?

No less than Sheff Utd deserve though, it must be said.


EDIT : Just seen it again ................. shoulder ................... correct decision.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 24, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			How would you know? 

Click to expand...

Well for starters you only have to be the fourth best team in your league. Champions of Europe , yeah right.

Then you go into a mini league with half the teams only there to make the numbers up, then you only have to win 5 ties. 

If youâ€™re lucky enough you can do it. ðŸ˜œðŸ‘


----------



## fundy (Nov 24, 2019)

no way that goal stands against LiVARpool


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 24, 2019)

Shoulder for me, goal given correct decision in my eyes


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 24, 2019)

fundy said:



			no way that goal stands against LiVARpool 

Click to expand...

Rightly so, havent you heard we own the FA and PLGMO?? ðŸ˜‰ 



SteveW86 said:



			Shoulder for me, goal given correct decision in my eyes
		
Click to expand...

I agree, shame the VAR didnt give Firmino's goal against Villa the other week for almost exactly the same goal. 

Good game though, a great advert for Championship football ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Daveg99 (Nov 24, 2019)

Definitely shoulder. Deserved a point out of that game did Sheffield


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 24, 2019)

Also heard on the radio today that Betway are paying out early for Liverpool to win the league for any bets placed before today.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 24, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Well for starters you only have to be the fourth best team in your league. Champions of Europe , yeah right.

Then you go into a mini league with half the teams only there to make the numbers up, then you only have to win 5 ties.

If youâ€™re lucky enough you can do it. ðŸ˜œðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

The bitterness is oozing out of you Sean ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 24, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Well for starters you only have to be the fourth best team in your league. Champions of Europe , yeah right.

Then you go into a mini league with half the teams only there to make the numbers up, then you only have to win 5 ties.

If youâ€™re lucky enough you can do it. ðŸ˜œðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Why dont the second tier of clubs win it more often, then, such as Arsenal?

The last 15 winners have been Madrid (4), Barca (4), Bayern (1, should have been 2), Milan (1), Inter (1) Man U (1) and Liverpool (2) and even a 2nd tier club in Chelsea(1).

A veritable smorgasbord of European royalty, many of whom are also perennial winners of their nation's own championships, 'cept us.


----------



## fundy (Nov 24, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Why dont the second tier of clubs win it more often, then, such as Arsenal?

The last 15 winners have been Madrid (4), Barca (4), Bayern (1, should have been 2), Milan (1), Inter (1) Man U (1) and Liverpool (2) and even a 2nd tier club in Chelsea(1).

A veritable smorgasbord of European royalty, many of whom are also perennial winners of their nation's own championships, 'cept us. 

Click to expand...


They do Liverpool have won it a couple of times


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2019)

fundy said:



			no way that goal stands against LiVARpool 

Click to expand...

Unbelievably it appears that if VAR wasnâ€™t used this year we would be only 8 points clear of City ðŸ¤”ðŸ˜‚


----------



## fundy (Nov 24, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Unbelievably it appears that if VAR wasnâ€™t used this year we would be only 8 points clear of City ðŸ¤”ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

meh ive backed you to win it by 10+, the more the merrier for me (sold my soul yet again haha)


----------



## Fish (Nov 24, 2019)

fundy said:



			rumour that Silva been given the tin tack by Everton on social media
		
Click to expand...

Canâ€™t find anything on this, other than he had tough talks with the board last night into the early hours of this morning.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 24, 2019)

Fish said:



			Canâ€™t find anything on this, other than he had tough talks with the board last night into the early hours of this morning.
View attachment 28624

Click to expand...

That list is hilarious.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 24, 2019)

Fish said:



			Canâ€™t find anything on this, other than he had tough talks with the board last night into the early hours of this morning.
View attachment 28624

Click to expand...

Depends if he gets the backing of the board...football talk for imminent departure. If it were to be true who would Everton fans want?


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 24, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Depends if he gets the backing of the board...football talk for imminent departure. If it were to be true who would Everton fans want?
		
Click to expand...

Who they want and who they get are 2 different things. 

Theres no way of them attracting a Pochettino,Wenger or Benitez. Pulis, Dyche, Allardyce et al are there standard of manager.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 24, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Who they want and who they get are 2 different things.

Theres no way of them attracting a Pochettino,Wenger or Benitez. Pulis, Dyche, Allardyce et al are there standard of manager.
		
Click to expand...

I agree that they won't land a top, top name like Poch but why not Benitez as he's not always seen eye to eye with his own chairman. On a completely different note...https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50538921


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 24, 2019)

Fish said:



			Canâ€™t find anything on this, other than he had tough talks with the board last night into the early hours of this morning.
View attachment 28624

Click to expand...

I think VAR over ruled it, he has got his job back and gave Liverpool a penalty ðŸ‘


----------



## harpo_72 (Nov 25, 2019)

Sheffield Utd. Manager is very shrewd, and he gets a lot out of his team. I like that he counters other teams very well.
itâ€™s been an interesting start !


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 25, 2019)

harpo_72 said:



			Sheffield Utd. Manager is very shrewd, and he gets a lot out of his team. I like that he counters other teams very well.
itâ€™s been an interesting start !
		
Click to expand...

I like watching them.
They should have put Utd to the sword yesterday but missed a sitter.
Was a good save but a very poor header imo ,anywhere except at the keeper he scores.
Mousset looks a real handful.
Their work rate is fantastic.
But they sat back for 10 minutes and got punished.
Did well to come back from that.
Var difficult one but benefit of doubt to attacking team. Is fine by me!


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 25, 2019)

harpo_72 said:



			Sheffield Utd. Manager is very shrewd, and he gets a lot out of his team. I like that he counters other teams very well.
itâ€™s been an interesting start !
		
Click to expand...

Done very well! Certainly better than the Warnock years


----------



## Slime (Nov 26, 2019)

Mourinho is having a 'mare, already!
I feel for Tottenham, I really do.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 26, 2019)

VAR in Real Madrid .
Red card Keeper and penalty.
Sacked the card and gave a foul to real???
Really soft foul

Ref did everything right went to look at monitor and changed his mind .
Really poor reffing as he was standing right by and looking at the push but didnâ€™t give it.
Then changed his mind.
Players still surrounding him arguing for ages.


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 26, 2019)

Slime said:



			Mourinho is having a 'mare, already!
I feel for Tottenham, I really do.
		
Click to expand...

was having a mare


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2019)

Slime said:



			Mourinho is having a 'mare, already!
I feel for Tottenham, I really do.
		
Click to expand...

Nice one Homer!


----------



## Jensen (Nov 26, 2019)

It's still the honeymoon period, ask me how I'll feel the end of NEXT season.
The Poison One.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 26, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Nice one Homer!

Click to expand...

What the heck has that to do with me?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			What the heck has that to do with me?
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s on par with your predictions.


----------



## Jensen (Nov 26, 2019)

Jensen said:



			It's still the honeymoon period, ask me how I'll feel the end of NEXT season.
The Poison One.
		
Click to expand...

And even then, I'll still have reservations.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 26, 2019)

RM V PSG.
What a football game had everything.
Some football from both teams.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 26, 2019)

Jensen said:



			And even then, I'll still have reservations.
		
Click to expand...

Give it a rest eh? Are you going to moan about Mourinho each time we win?? Let's just wait and see what happens shall we?


----------



## harpo_72 (Nov 26, 2019)

Spurs game was interesting, bit dynamic with the strategy but the back up plan worked. Guess you have to give credit for that and good at getting the guys to play the strategy. But they are professional footballers and that is what is expected.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 26, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Give it a rest eh? Are you going to moan about Mourinho each time we win?? Let's just wait and see what happens shall we?
		
Click to expand...

We have those type of super negative fans too. ðŸ˜™


----------



## Jensen (Nov 26, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			We have those type of super negative fans too. ðŸ˜™
		
Click to expand...

Not really, the mans got form and I can't believe how some are easily taken in ðŸ‘


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 26, 2019)

What a free kick from Dybala in the Juve v Atleti game ðŸ‘ðŸ‘

Good response from Spurs though. I can understand Jensen's negativity regards JM, he obviously cares about his club not just about the present but also the future of it.


----------



## Wolf (Nov 26, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			We have those type of super negative fans too. ðŸ˜™
		
Click to expand...

I'd argue more that our fans have watched enough of Emery and his shite football and lack of tactical intelligence. That's not negative that's realistically commenting on the actual play and results...


----------



## Kellfire (Nov 26, 2019)

Lewandowskiâ€™s having some season.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 26, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Not really, the mans got form and I can't believe how some are easily taken in ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

You sound like such a drama queen. He's just a football manager managing a football team. A manager with a good track record of trophies as well. Either he'll be successful or he won't. Nobody will die (hopefully).


----------



## 4LEX (Nov 27, 2019)

Slime said:



			Mourinho is having a 'mare, already!
I feel for Tottenham, I really do.
		
Click to expand...

Appointed on Thursday and 2 wins out of 2 in 3 days.....really shocking.

This is the man that got a bang average United side to finish ABOVE Liverpool just 18 months ago remember. I know who I would rather have in charge of my club out of Ole or Mourinho! It's like comparing Bogner to the Bahamas or a Fiesta to a Ferrai.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 27, 2019)

4LEX said:



			Appointed on Thursday and 2 wins out of 2 in 3 days.....really shocking.

This is the man that got a bang average United side to finish ABOVE Liverpool just 18 months ago remember. I know who I would rather have in charge of my club out of Ole or Mourinho! It's like comparing Bogner to the Bahamas or a Fiesta to a Ferrai.
		
Click to expand...

Bit of poetic license there - 

That â€œbang average â€œ team cost him Â£300mil including at the time one of the most expensive players in the world , the Liverpool team were still building and developing. 

Mourinho has a lot of work to do at Spurs because he wonâ€™t be able to buy his team, this time he will need to manage , he will prob win one of the domestic cups , what happens then will be interesting- third year explosion?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 27, 2019)

To be fair I thought bearing how little time he's had to work with the side it was a good managerial display from Mourinho last night. Not afraid to change it early and clearly got the side motivated and playing in the second half. I can see him getting the most from what is an average squad by PL and CL standards. Yes they have some top players but aren't strong enough in every position and lack depth.


----------



## Dan2501 (Nov 27, 2019)

Went to the Etihad last night. Wanted to watch a CL game live for a while, and knew it's not coming any soon for Everton , so popped down to the Etihad instead. Not the best game, but still cool to go. Had fantastic seats on the 1st tier right behind the goal so could see everything. City didn't look great, but a couple of players stood out - Rodri was fantastic. His range of passing, the way he controlled the midfield and dictated the game was a joy to watch, the sort of player it's difficult to appreciate when watching on TV but live he was fantastic. Then KDB didn't have his best game but he's so tenacious, works so hard and when he gets the ball makes the game look SO easy, what a footballer. As for the negatives - Angelino was dreadful. No power, caught out of position a few times, and had a rough night trying to control the pacey and talented Tete, going to struggle if he's their LB for a prolonged period. Then Otamendi was shocking. Dives into tackles wildly, leaves himself way out position and was so fortunate to have Fernandinho backing him up, without him they'd have lost last night. City really need to sort out a new CB or two in Jan and pray they can get a PL level LB back fit, Angelino is not going to cut it at the top level based on last night.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Nov 27, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Went to the Etihad last night. Wanted to watch a CL game live for a while, and knew it's not coming any soon for Everton , so popped down to the Etihad instead. Not the best game, but still cool to go. Had fantastic seats on the 1st tier right behind the goal so could see everything. City didn't look great, but a couple of players stood out - Rodri was fantastic. His range of passing, the way he controlled the midfield and dictated the game was a joy to watch, the sort of player it's difficult to appreciate when watching on TV but live he was fantastic. Then KDB didn't have his best game but he's so tenacious, works so hard and when he gets the ball makes the game look SO easy, what a footballer. As for the negatives - Angelino was dreadful. No power, caught out of position a few times, and had a rough night trying to control the pacey and talented Tete, going to struggle if he's their LB for a prolonged period. Then Otamendi was shocking. Dives into tackles wildly, leaves himself way out position and was so fortunate to have Fernandinho backing him up, without him they'd have lost last night. City really need to sort out a new CB or two in Jan and pray they can get a PL level LB back fit, Angelino is not going to cut it at the top level based on last night.
		
Click to expand...

So did you get one of the "influencer" jobs?


----------



## Slime (Nov 27, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			was having a mare 

Click to expand...

Yeah, I kind of spoke a bit too soon!
I still fear for Tottenham, though.
A leopard and all that ...............................


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 27, 2019)

Slime said:



			Yeah, I kind of spoke a bit too soon!
I still fear for Tottenham, though.
A leopard and all that ...............................
		
Click to expand...

I honestly wouldnâ€™t be surprised if he went all the way in the CL with Spurs.

Didnâ€™t DiMatteo do it with Chelsea a while ago when they were nowhere near the best team in the competition. Rode there luck and got past the best teams in Europe.

Plus Iâ€™m pretty sure this Spurs side is as good as the Porto team Mourinho won it with.

Just never know in football, especially in cup competitions.

Sometimes the best team in Europe donâ€™t win it, look at Arsenal over the years ðŸ˜—


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 27, 2019)

I don't know why people are being so melodramatic about Mourinho. What's the worst that can happen really? He took over with us in 14th. He's not going to get us relegated. Top four is already a tough ask. Some of our key players may leave but would've done eventually anyway. On the upside, he has a good track record for winning trophies, or at least competing for them, which may encourage the players to stay put, or at least attract able replacements as Mourinho is clearly a big name in management. 

So yeah.. what's the worst that can happen?


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 27, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I don't know why people are being so melodramatic about Mourinho. What's the worst that can happen really? He took over with us in 14th. He's not going to get us relegated. Top four is already a tough ask. Some of our key players may leave but would've done eventually anyway. On the upside, he has a good track record for winning trophies, or at least competing for them, which may encourage the players to stay put, or at least attract able replacements as Mourinho is clearly a big name in management.

*So yeah.. what's the worst that can happen?*

Click to expand...

That you finish 6th or below this year. A few payers leave and the reality that youâ€™ve got a massive mortgage and no CL footy to pay for it leads to bargain basement signings. You miss out on Europe in year two, Kane leaves and then youâ€™re back to a mid table team like youâ€™ve been for most of the prem. 

personally think G Neville has it spot on though. 
Reckon youâ€™ll win a trophy by end of next year which will justify the risk.


----------



## Dan2501 (Nov 27, 2019)

Mourinho is the sort of manager Spurs need, a winner. Might not have had the best time at the end of his spell with United and so that's fresh in everyone's minds, but he's still one of the best managers in the world and especially early in reigns tends to have a lot of success. He had 2 full seasons at United and in 16/17 they came 6th but won the Europa League and League Cup and 17/18 they came 2nd, it started to fall apart in season 3 (tends to with Jose) but they're not terrible results for his first 2 season. I would be very surprised if Spurs fall apart and crumble back into mid-table mediocrity. If Levy gives Jose a bit of money to spend over the next 2 windows they could be title contenders again next season.


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 27, 2019)

He has earned more money through being sacked than through gainful employment. That is the measure of the man. Spends a fortune, costs a fortune. Good luck with that one. I know how this story ends.


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 27, 2019)

Title contenders, again. Again? When have they ever contended? The Leicester year? That was a cluster flip for everyone, it won't happen again.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 27, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Mourinho is the sort of manager Spurs need, a winner. Might not have had the best time at the end of his spell with United and so that's fresh in everyone's minds, but he's still one of the best managers in the world and especially early in reigns tends to have a lot of success. He had 2 full seasons at United and in 16/17 they came 6th but won the Europa League and League Cup and 17/18 they came 2nd, it started to fall apart in season 3 (tends to with Jose) but they're not terrible results for his first 2 season. I would be very surprised if Spurs fall apart and crumble back into mid-table mediocrity. If Levy gives Jose a bit of money to spend over the next 2 windows *they could be title contenders again next season.*

Click to expand...

When have they ever been title contenders?


----------



## fundy (Nov 27, 2019)

VAR at it again lol


----------



## fundy (Nov 27, 2019)

not bothering to review the penalty though with the ref clearly levelling it up


----------



## Dan2501 (Nov 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When have they ever been title contenders?
		
Click to expand...

They won 2 of their last 7 to end up 3rd in 15/16, they were definitely contenders that year and with 10 games to go favourites, then came 2nd in 16/17.


----------



## fundy (Nov 27, 2019)

pray for Mane lol


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 27, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			That you finish 6th or below this year. A few payers leave and the reality that youâ€™ve got a massive mortgage and no CL footy to pay for it leads to bargain basement signings. You miss out on Europe in year two, Kane leaves and then youâ€™re back to a mid table team like youâ€™ve been for most of the prem.

personally think G Neville has it spot on though.
Reckon youâ€™ll win a trophy by end of next year which will justify the risk.
		
Click to expand...

If all of that happens it will be in no small part because of the awful start we had under Poch. I wouldn't blame Jose at all of we finish 6th, in fact I think anything better than that would be some achievement.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 27, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			If all of that happens it will be in no small part because of the awful start we had under Poch. I wouldn't blame Jose at all of we finish 6th, in fact I think anything better than that would be some achievement.
		
Click to expand...

Youâ€™re 2 points off of 5th. But early to throw the towel in isnâ€™t it? 

I mean 4th would be a great season. But I donâ€™t think finishing 5th would be â€œsome achievementâ€.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 27, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			They won 2 of their last 7 to end up 3rd in 15/16, they were definitely contenders that year and with 10 games to go favourites, *then came 2nd in 16/17*.
		
Click to expand...

With 86 points. We contended in the Leicester (or if we didn't then nobody did) but we were actually better the following season. Chelsea were just outstanding.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 27, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Youâ€™re 2 points off of 5th. But early to throw the towel in isnâ€™t it?

I mean 4th would be a great season. But I donâ€™t think finishing 5th would be â€œsome achievementâ€.
		
Click to expand...

Well, ok, but you said 6th was worst case like it's actually any different to 5th.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 27, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Well, ok, but you said 6th was worst case like it's actually any different to 5th.
		
Click to expand...

I used 6th because start of the season there's no way anyone makes a case for you finishing 7th tbh. 

Obv worse case you finish 20th, but that's not gonna happy as Saints will be... 

Realistically though I agree 5/6th give the same rewards as such. I just feel if you miss CL this season the damage Could be done. It may not be down to mourinho, but the ramifications could be a scenario that bring out the worst parts of Jose.


----------



## Orikoru (Nov 27, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I used 6th because start of the season there's no way anyone makes a case for you finishing 7th tbh.

Obv worse case you finish 20th, but that's not gonna happy as Saints will be...

Realistically though I agree 5/6th give the same rewards as such. I just feel if you miss CL this season the damage Could be done. It may not be down to mourinho, but the ramifications could be a scenario that bring out the worst parts of Jose.
		
Click to expand...

Hmm, I guess I'm just trying to be positive, but I just see it as a shot to nothing for him really. If we make top 4 he's done brilliantly, if we make Europa then no one will be over the moon but it does give us a realistic chance of winning it under Jose next season. If he misses out on that as well then he just rebuilds for next season. No drama.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 28, 2019)

Disappointing night at Anfield. One of the poorest performances I've seen from Liverpool for a long time. Not ideal having to go to Salzburg and get a draw/win but I'm sure they'll have enough. Thought Chelsea were unlucky in Spain but one of the most open CL games in terms of attempts I've seen so you can argue both had the chances to win


----------



## Piece (Nov 28, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Disappointing night at Anfield. One of the poorest performances I've seen from Liverpool for a long time. Not ideal having to go to Salzburg and get a draw/win but I'm sure they'll have enough. Thought Chelsea were unlucky in Spain but one of the most open CL games in terms of attempts I've seen so you can argue both had the chances to win
		
Click to expand...

I thought Liverpool were OK, they were up against a decent Italian team who know how to defend and counterattack. Napoli goal was a bit iffy with that challenge on VVD being ignored.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 28, 2019)

Piece said:



			I thought Liverpool were OK, they were up against a decent Italian team who know how to defend and counterattack. Napoli goal was a bit iffy with that challenge on VVD being ignored.
		
Click to expand...

Napoli played all 11 behind the ball and their CBâ€™s are superb , we created a small number of chances but was always going to be tough

I was surprised that they didnâ€™t pull their goal back for the challenge by Mertens as whilst itâ€™s debatable if itâ€™s a foul or not ( I think it just about was ) - it was significantly worse than the challenge that enabled the PSG goal to be disallowed.

And then there was the time to look at Lovrens challenge for the goal.

It was frustrating to watch and the game at Salzburg is going to be tricky as they do score goals and right now we arenâ€™t keeping them out enough


----------



## IanM (Nov 28, 2019)

Got Man U Yooof v _no idea_ on the ipad while finishing off some work stuff..... goodness, it's dull.    European game?  Wow.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2019)

Piece said:



			I thought Liverpool were OK, they were up against a decent Italian team who know how to defend and counterattack. Napoli goal was a bit iffy with that challenge on VVD being ignored.
		
Click to expand...

We were very slow with our passing last night, it needs to be quicker and the movement off the ball needed to be much better. Losing Fabinho was a blow but  Napoli are a very good side though they never looked like threatening us apart from the goal. 

Tough game in Salzburg but we know exactly what we need to do.


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Napoli played all 11 behind the ball and their CBâ€™s are superb , we created a small number of chances but was always going to be tough

I was surprised that they didnâ€™t pull their goal back for the challenge by Mertens as whilst itâ€™s debatable if itâ€™s a foul or not ( I think it just about was ) - it was significantly worse than the challenge that enabled the PSG goal to be disallowed.

And then there was the time to look at Lovrens challenge for the goal.

It was frustrating to watch and the game at Salzburg is going to be tricky as they do score goals and right now we arenâ€™t keeping them out enough
		
Click to expand...

I didn't think it was a foul, though I thought the ref was poor. Gave them 3x as many fouls as we got and played advantage when there wasnt any and it should've been a free kick. That wasnt the reason we never won though.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I didn't think it was a foul, though I thought the ref was poor. Gave them 3x as many fouls as we got and played advantage when there wasnt any and it should've been a free kick. That wasnt the reason we never won though.
		
Click to expand...

Seen the replay he is looking at VVD never once Looked at the ball. So think it was a foul.
Fair result I think they played for a draw and their tactics were spot on.
We gave their keeper some catching practice with poor crosses but we were slow and could not get through a very disciplined defence.
Their CBs were brilliant.
The ref should have had a shirt on saying â€œLOOK AT ME I AM THE MAIN MAN HEREâ€.


----------



## fundy (Nov 28, 2019)

lol xhaka back and about 15,000 have bothered to turn up to see it

not sure the fans can make it any clearer to the board


----------



## Bazzatron (Nov 28, 2019)

Through to the Europa knockouts ðŸ˜


----------



## fundy (Nov 28, 2019)

think id be considering going to the pub at half time i was one of the 15,000 (or fewer) there


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 28, 2019)

This is just dull. Seriously boring rubbish.


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 28, 2019)

Seriously low attendance. So no away fans, no ticket sales to red members and no sales to friends and families either. UEFA rules apparently.


----------



## fundy (Nov 28, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Seriously low attendance. So no away fans, no ticket sales to red members and no sales to friends and families either. UEFA rules apparently.
		
Click to expand...

and no season ticket holders could be bothered to turn up to watch this utter tripe, i feel for those who did bother!


----------



## fundy (Nov 28, 2019)

does Saka get an assist for his airshot lol

Aubam bailing us out again, he'll do well at Barca or wherever he is next year


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 28, 2019)

Yep, Auba does what he does. It's a pity he gets such poor service. He would be banging them in for a proper team.


----------



## fundy (Nov 28, 2019)

dick sends us out to defend a 1-0 against a horror side and we cant even do that for 10 minutes. Doozi sells himself and xhaka makes a half hearted attempt to block

what a shower this lot are


----------



## fundy (Nov 28, 2019)

lets see if our spineless Board can do their job tomorrow or whether the clown will still be in charge at Norwich


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2019)

I feel sorry for the poor feckers who pay Â£1200+ per season  to watch that shyte.


----------



## fundy (Nov 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I feel sorry for the poor feckers who pay Â£1200+ per season  to watch that shyte.
		
Click to expand...

feel for those of us who arent going to get 3/1 about Norwich at home to an Emery side at the weekend!


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 28, 2019)

Looked a terrible dive there Saka


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 28, 2019)

fundy said:



			lets see if our spineless Board can do their job tomorrow or whether the clown will still be in charge at Norwich
		
Click to expand...

Yeah because that worked out well last time when your type and Arsenal Fan Tv forced the boardsâ€™ hand booting Wenger out.

Let the board take its time FFS


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Yeah because that worked out well last time when your type and Arsenal Fan Tv forced the boardsâ€™ hand booting Wenger out.

Let the board take its time FFS
		
Click to expand...

You're deluded if you think AFTV forced the board to finish Wenger, Wenger's stubbornness cost him his job. 

If the board did listen to AFTV and the like,  then I'd be worried about the board.


----------



## fundy (Nov 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			You're deluded if you think AFTV forced the board to finish Wenger, Wenger's stubbornness cost him his job. 

If the board did listen to AFTV and the like,  then I'd be worried about the board.
		
Click to expand...


im worried about the board 

assume youre talking to the troll not yourself lol


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			You're deluded if you think AFTV forced the board to finish Wenger, Wenger's stubbornness cost him his job.

If the board did listen to AFTV and the like,  then I'd be worried about the board.
		
Click to expand...

Of course that influenced the board and it would at any club.

Your club is just as bad, remember the Rodgers out Rafa In fly by banner?

Every club has a section of fans that are impatient a-holes.

I hope the club resists and takes their time with the next appt. I donâ€™t want another Man U situation, they must choose wisely and not panic.

Some fans are creating panic and itâ€™s not on.ðŸ˜¡


----------



## Wolf (Nov 28, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Of course that influenced the board and it would at any club.

Your club is just as bad, remember the Rodgers our Rafa In fly by banner?

Every club has a section of fans that are impatient a-holes.

I hope the club resists and takes their time with the next appt. I donâ€™t want another Man U situation, they must choose wisely and not panic.

Some fans are creating panic and itâ€™s not on.ðŸ˜¡
		
Click to expand...

Fans aren't creating panic, they're responding to the shite in front of them each week and managers tactical ineptitude against lesser sides but don't let that get in your way of wanting more time, we're entitled to our opinion of what we expect as fans as you are entitled to want to settle for mediocrity


----------



## fundy (Nov 28, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Fans aren't creating panic, they're responding to the shite in front of them each week and managers tactical ineptitude against lesser sides but don't let that get in your way of wanting more time, we're entitled to our opinion of what we expect as fans as you are entitled to want to settle for mediocrity
		
Click to expand...


lol give him more time to ensure that Aubameyang, Lacazette and Torreira all leave to ensure every single decent asset is eradicated form the club


----------



## Wolf (Nov 28, 2019)

fundy said:



			lol give him more time to ensure that Aubameyang, Lacazette and Torreira all leave to ensure every single decent asset is eradicated form the club
		
Click to expand...

Exactly right let him continue until the only real quality we have want to up and leave then try and defend him for not being given time. 18mths is enough, we've seen enough and now we must move forward before we go further backward... 

#emeryout


----------



## Piece (Nov 29, 2019)

Attendance says there was 49k at The Emirates last night. ðŸ¤”ðŸ˜‚


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 29, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Exactly right let him continue until the only real quality we have want to up and leave then try and defend him for not being given time. 18mths is enough, we've seen enough and now we must move forward before we go further backward...

#emeryout
		
Click to expand...

You can wanted a change 18mths ago and now probably realise what a good job Wenger was doing. Now you want another change.

#selfentitled
#shambles


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			You can wanted a change 18mths ago and now probably realise what a good job Wenger was doing. Now you want another change.

#selfentitled
#shambles
		
Click to expand...

Just because Emery is having a mare doesnâ€™t mean it was wrong to move on from Wenger . Wenger time had come to an end - the team were going backwards and something needed to happen, Arsenal just went for someone who was available instead of trying to get the best or someone to develop with - either way it was right to move Wenger on but wrong to replace him with Emery and now they will have to do it again and maybe this time they may get it right.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 29, 2019)

Emery simply isn't doing the club and the players any favours. They look so dazed and confused on the pitch and seem unable to follow game plans or adapt when things aren't going well. I din't think the squad is string enough and the manager capable enough. Has to be time for a change


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 29, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just because Emery is having a mare doesnâ€™t mean it was wrong to move on from Wenger . Wenger time had come to an end - the team were going backwards and something needed to happen, Arsenal just went for someone who was available instead of trying to get the best or someone to develop with - either way it was right to move Wenger on but wrong to replace him with Emery and now they will have to do it again and maybe this time they may get it right.
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s your opinion.

Wenger set a new standard at Arsenal basically owning a top 4 space for 20 years.

He missed a couple and then self entitled fans saw that as not being good enough and wanted change.

So should we change manager every 18mths until we get someone who happens to get early success? 

I donâ€™t like that idea and Iâ€™m not fixated by winning trophies. Iâ€™d settle for having an Arsenal side that play attractive, entertaining football competing at top end of the table and in the CL most years.

As far as Iâ€™m concerned we had that with Wenger and should have trusted the great man to recognise himself that his days were over instead of bringing his glorious reign to a ugly and acrimonious end. 

The board caved then and I donâ€™t want them caving every time some self entitled deluded fans start jumping up and down.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Thatâ€™s your opinion.

Wenger set a new standard at Arsenal basically owning a top 4 space for 20 years.

He missed a couple and then self entitled fans saw that as not being good enough and wanted change.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s not good enough - itâ€™s as simple as that 

Arsenal are supposed to be a top club , their fans pay the most expensive tickets in the game , they spent millions on a stadium so that they can challenge for the big trophies. Arsenal couldnt afford not to be in the CL , their business model to improve and bring in players relied upon the club being in the CL - thatâ€™s why it was time for Wenger to go , other clubs around them where improving and going past Arsenal 




			So should we change manager every 18mths until we get someone who happens to get early success?

I donâ€™t like that idea and Iâ€™m not fixated by winning trophies. Iâ€™d settle for having an Arsenal side that play attractive, entertaining football competing at top end of the table and in the CL most years.

As far as Iâ€™m concerned we had that with Wenger and should have trusted the great man to recognise himself that his days were over instead of bringing his glorious reign to a ugly and acrimonious end.

The board caved then and I donâ€™t want them caving every time some self entitled deluded fans start jumping up and down.
		
Click to expand...

You didnâ€™t have that for the last two years with Wenger , and sorry but settling for top being in the top 4 is not the reason why they left Highbury and spent millions and itâ€™s not what keeps top players at clubs , they want to win and challenge for the big clubs 

Your acceptance of mediocrity for Arsenal is a direct result of your desire to have kept Wenger.

I reckon 99% of Arsenal fans disagree With you - i know my Brother in Law who pays over a grand for his ST certainly does


----------



## Slime (Nov 29, 2019)




----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 29, 2019)

At the moment Arsenal are nowhere near a top 4 side and really need the CL revenue if they are going to keep the top players and attract new talent into the club. Settling for top 4 is a negative ambition and surely you want a side that can play attractive football (and not the old 1-0 to the Arsenal style) and challenge for the PL, CL qualification and domestic cups


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 29, 2019)

So you reckon 99% agree with you because your brother in law says so.

Thats a lot of people you both speak for lol.


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 29, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			At the moment Arsenal are nowhere near a top 4 side and really need the CL revenue if they are going to keep the top players and attract new talent into the club. Settling for top 4 is a negative ambition and surely you want a side that can play attractive football (and not the old 1-0 to the Arsenal style) and challenge for the PL, CL qualification and domestic cups
		
Click to expand...

Yes I said that Homer, attractive entertaining football is a must. Top 4 is a must because you will give your self a chance to compete for the league not every year but most years.

CL football is where Arsenal should aspire to be for sure.

Winning honours is of course what every one would like but it shouldnâ€™t be the be all and end all IMO. There are degrees of success thatâ€™s all Iâ€™m saying.

Emery right now is not successful by any measure that is obvious. It canâ€™t continue for ever that should go without saying but 18mths and mid season is a bit soon for me especially if the board havent properly sounded out a successor.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			So you reckon 99% agree with you because your brother in law says so.

Thats a lot of people you both speak for lol.
		
Click to expand...

I didnâ€™t say 99% with agree with me - I said 99% would disagree with you , not one Arsenal on here would agree with you , not one Arsenal fan I know would agree with you , certainly donâ€™t hear them agreeing with you on the phone ins etc 

Arsenal right now are going to struggle to stay in the top 6


----------



## Wolf (Nov 29, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			You can wanted a change 18mths ago and now probably realise what a good job Wenger was doing. Now you want another change.

#selfentitled
#shambles
		
Click to expand...

Change was well due 18mths ago,. And 18mths as I've said many times is enough as a bare minimum to at least know your squad and figure out best formation he can't do that in a single game. 

Besides by your own admission you want to see good football and top 4, we're getting neither with Emery. You're at best trolling now, besides I really don't need to add anything more to reply as LP has summed it up perfectly and he's not even an arsenal fan


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 29, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Yes I said that Homer, attractive entertaining football is a must. Top 4 is a must because you will give your self a chance to compete for the league not every year but most years.

CL football is where Arsenal should aspire to be for sure.

Winning honours is of course what every one would like but it shouldnâ€™t be the be all and end all IMO. There are degrees of success thatâ€™s all Iâ€™m saying.

Emery right now is not successful by any measure that is obvious. It canâ€™t continue for ever that should go without saying but 18mths and mid season is a bit soon for me especially if the board havent properly sounded out a successor.
		
Click to expand...

I agree there are degrees of success but I'd argue most fans of most teams would want to see progress towards ultimately achieving success and winning a trophy. I think eighteen months is long enough when he's had a stable squad to work with but the fact he seems unable to select a consistent/best side for any game and players are out of position and seemingly unable (perhaps even unwilling at this stage) to follow his instructions would worry me as a fan. I don't think he's necessarily a bad manager but just don't think he's capable of pulling off what's required to get Arsenal to top four and the CL and if anything more chance of missing Europa next year as well. If it was me I'd prefer to get someone in now, give them a few games before the window opens in January


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 29, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I agree there are degrees of success but I'd argue most fans of most teams would want to see progress towards ultimately achieving success and winning a trophy. I think eighteen months is long enough when he's had a stable squad to work with but the fact he seems unable to select a consistent/best side for any game and players are out of position and seemingly unable (perhaps even unwilling at this stage) to follow his instructions would worry me as a fan. I don't think he's necessarily a bad manager but just don't think he's capable of pulling off what's required to get Arsenal to top four and the CL and if anything more chance of missing Europa next year as well. If it was me I'd prefer to get someone in now, give them a few games before the window opens in January
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s not been that stable Homer in fact itâ€™s been anything but.

We should at the very least give him until after the City match in December. We have 4-5 winnable games till then.

Personally I would like to see him backed in January and then see how it pans out for the rest of the season before taking stock in the Summer.

Heâ€™s a good coach and it might just need a couple of different players for it to click


----------



## Norrin Radd (Nov 29, 2019)

Have the gooner board grown a pair .Dick is history .jus been sacked


----------



## garyinderry (Nov 29, 2019)

Hes gone.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 29, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Thatâ€™s your opinion.

Wenger set a new standard at Arsenal basically owning a top 4 space for 20 years.
		
Click to expand...

Is that really such an achievement? A top 4 spot for 20 years in what for several years was a two horse race (1997-2003) between Man Utd and Arsenal until Chelsea and later Man City and Liverpool joined the party. Owning a top 4 place for 20 years sounds great but when only two or three clubs are realistically challenging for the title it isn't such a magnificent achievement.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Nov 29, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50532493 

https://www.skysports.com/football/...emery-sacked-by-arsenal-where-did-it-go-wrong 

https://www.skysports.com/football/...rs-to-replace-the-spaniard-as-arsenal-manager


----------



## Wolf (Nov 29, 2019)

And he's........ GONE. 
Christmas comes early the board finally growing a pair of cojones. Hopefully won't be a rushed appointment like the Emery one was and they get someone in that has a vision of how they want the team to line up, style of play and will get the team tother as a unit again


----------



## USER1999 (Nov 29, 2019)

As long as it isn't another one from Sanlehis address book. Nuno Santes being one of them. No thanks.


----------



## Norrin Radd (Nov 29, 2019)

My money is on Rafa being brought in . Quality manager and with players at Arsenal he could get them back challenging for at least a top four just like Wenger did


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 29, 2019)

Is Max Allegri still available?


----------



## Dando (Nov 29, 2019)

David Moyes to The Emirates


----------



## Wolf (Nov 29, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			Is Max Allegri still available?
		
Click to expand...

Yes he is. 

I'd like to see someone like Nagelsman but we wait and see I guess..


----------



## fundy (Nov 29, 2019)




----------



## USER1999 (Nov 29, 2019)

Harry Rednapp, you heard it here first.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 29, 2019)

Allegri would be a quality manager to take over - Rafa would be one to look at if they want to look at established


----------



## IanM (Nov 29, 2019)

Get me a Spaniard...any Spaniard!!   Or if not, South American, or Portuguese?  

Brit?  Ooh no. 

Actually, Arsenal are suffering from years of just trying to qualify for the CL only, and no more, others have overtaken them!


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 29, 2019)

IanM said:



			Get me a Spaniard...any Spaniard!!   Or if not, South American, or Portuguese? 

Brit?  Ooh no.

Actually, Arsenal are suffering from years of *just trying to qualify for the CL only, *and no more, others have overtaken them!
		
Click to expand...

Yeah because thatâ€™s really easy to do isnâ€™t it? ðŸ¤”


----------



## need_my_wedge (Nov 29, 2019)

I don't like to jump o manager out bandwagon's, but I'm glad he's gone. I liked him at first but this season we have gone backwards quicker than an Italian tank on full throttle .

I'm not sure who I want/ hope replaces him. Allegri, may be a good option and is available, I think Enrique is still available too. We'll have to hope Freddie rallies them in the mean time though.


----------



## Piece (Nov 29, 2019)

I think Nuno E-S would be idea for The Gunners. Sorry Bazz!


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 29, 2019)

I would say Allegri is a great shout. Him, or Rafa on a short term contract until the summer would atleast have them playing organised football. If they see progression then give them a longer contract, if not then they can do some searching for the rest of the season. I dont know enough about Nagelsman to offer an opinion on him, but looking from the outside I would say they just need some organisation and a defensive structure. They have enough quality going forward to just say to Lacazette/Auba/Ozil to play with freedom, not conceding 20 shots a game will atleast give them a bit more leeway and take the pressure off.


----------



## fundy (Nov 29, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			I would say Allegri is a great shout. Him, or Rafa on a short term contract until the summer would atleast have them playing organised football. If they see progression then give them a longer contract, if not then they can do some searching for the rest of the season. I dont know enough about Nagelsman to offer an opinion on him, but looking from the outside I would say they just need some organisation and a defensive structure. They have enough quality going forward to just say to Lacazette/Auba/Ozil to play with freedom, not conceding 20 shots a game will atleast give them a bit more leeway and take the pressure off.
		
Click to expand...


Whoever comes in needs to inspire Aubameyang and Lacazette to stay and sign new contracts, if they are unable to do that then the rebuild becomes even harder as they will be on their way too


----------



## Stuart_C (Nov 29, 2019)

The only man for Arsenal is Mr Hodgson. Won trophies across Europe, experienced at the highest level, respected throughout world football and hes a nice man.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 29, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The only man for Arsenal is Mr Hodgson. Won trophies across Europe, experienced at the highest level, respected throughout world football and hes a nice man.
		
Click to expand...

Top Bantz La ðŸ™„


----------



## Pin-seeker (Nov 29, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1200455711353950208 ðŸ¤·â€â™‚


----------



## Fish (Nov 29, 2019)

If Leicester stick a handful past Everton I think he will be joined by Silva, and if Chelsea knock a few past West Ham, well thereâ€™s another on thin ice. 

Anyone fancy any of them.....ðŸ¤”


Thought not ðŸ˜œ


----------



## sawtooth (Nov 29, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1200455711353950208ðŸ¤·â€â™‚
		
Click to expand...

Perfectly good and legal tackle. ðŸ‘


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2019)

What a strike by KDB


----------



## Dan2501 (Nov 30, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1200779346287431681
Goal worthy of winning any game that. KDB is class.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 30, 2019)

And what a strike by Shelvey 

I wish someone could explain how Fernandino constantly gets away without being yellow carded and sent off for his cynical fouls


----------



## Dan2501 (Nov 30, 2019)

Worthy of winning a game, but it won't now, Shelvey with a cracking hit. No idea how Fernandinho wasn't sent off though, blatant yellow card.

Pep might be regretting taking the striker off now.


----------



## Dan2501 (Nov 30, 2019)

Mendy's been absolutely dreadful today. What has happened to him? Was so good when he first signed for City but since his injuries he's been shocking. I thought Angelino was bad in the week!


----------



## Slime (Nov 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And what a strike by Shelvey

I wish someone could explain how Fernandino constantly gets away without being yellow carded and sent off for his cynical fouls
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, that's one of life's conundrums.
He's a lucky lad, once again.


----------



## davemc1 (Nov 30, 2019)

Hey beezerk, what times motd on bro?


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2019)

Well well well

I felt it could be our day when I saw that MP Had the stones to drop Roberto for a keeper who has only really been a back up keeper or a lower league keeper at best 

He did the job we needed . 

Whole team played well by sounds 

Nice 0-1 win away to Chelsea stops that awful awful run


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 30, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Hey beezerk, what times motd on bro?
		
Click to expand...

Why would a Sheff Wed Fan be interested in MOTD Dave? Theyâ€™re in the Championship, but did win today.
Or have you got the name wrong? Asking for a friend.


----------



## davemc1 (Nov 30, 2019)

Hey Mike Ashley, what times motd on bro? ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 30, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Hey Mike Ashley, what times motd on bro? ðŸ¤¦â€â™‚ï¸
		
Click to expand...

Norrin Radd is a Brighton fan mate if that helps.


----------



## davemc1 (Nov 30, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Norrin Radd is a Brighton fan mate if that helps.

Click to expand...

You still dont know how the game works? Hereâ€™s where Iâ€™d go next 

Hey pauljames what times motd on bro? 

Itâ€™s never the team youâ€™ve just beaten ðŸ‘ðŸ»


----------



## davemc1 (Nov 30, 2019)

Has a forward ever been less arsed about scoring than Shane long? He looks like he doesnâ€™t give 1 shit ðŸ¤·â€â™‚ï¸

Enter danny ings ðŸ‘ðŸ»


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 30, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Has a forward ever been less arsed about scoring than Shane long? He looks like he doesnâ€™t give 1 shit ðŸ¤·â€â™‚ï¸

Enter danny ings ðŸ‘ðŸ»
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™d still start Long every week mate. As long as heâ€™s not up top on his own. He makes me pull my hair out, but heâ€™s an absolute ball ache to play against.


----------



## Piece (Nov 30, 2019)

QSF out. That substitution of Deulofeu on 67mins was harikari. QSF out.


----------



## SteveW86 (Nov 30, 2019)

Interesting handball in the lead up to the Ings goal. Should VAR have spotted that?


----------



## Fish (Nov 30, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Well well well

I felt it could be our day when I saw that MP Had the stones to drop Roberto for a keeper who has only really been a back up keeper or a lower league keeper at best

He did the job we needed .

Whole team played well by sounds

Nice 0-1 win away to Chelsea stops that awful awful run
		
Click to expand...

Poor selection cost us today, if Kante & Willian are fit then they have to start. 

Giroud offered nothing, for all the possession and chances we had in the first half, we should have scored, but then 2 poor subs again for me. 

Batsy should have come on as we clearly needed a goal, and he can sniff them out with half a chance. 

WH defended well and soaked up the first half pressure, the second half we didnâ€™t trouble them and their goal was very well taken. 

Bad day for us, but unlike other teams, I think weâ€™ll become stronger for it and Frank will learn from it also. 

London Derbyâ€™s are always unpredictable but we lacked effort today and didnâ€™t trouble a debutant PL keeper.


----------



## Papas1982 (Nov 30, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			Interesting handball in the lead up to the Ings goal. Should VAR have spotted that?
		
Click to expand...

I think it should have done tbh. It looked dubious live, can't believe wasn't checked but will take it lol


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 30, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			You still dont know how the game works? Hereâ€™s where Iâ€™d go next

Hey pauljames what times motd on bro?

Itâ€™s never the team youâ€™ve just beaten ðŸ‘ðŸ»
		
Click to expand...

I tried to make it easy for you, you picked a championship team first yet itâ€™s me who doesnâ€™t know how it works!


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			You still dont know how the game works? Hereâ€™s where Iâ€™d go next

Hey pauljames what times motd on bro?

Itâ€™s never the team youâ€™ve just beaten ðŸ‘ðŸ»
		
Click to expand...

have to admit this ones gone over my head?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 30, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			have to admit this ones gone over my head?
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s gone over everyoneâ€™s head, itâ€™s Daveâ€™s game and only he knows the rules.


----------



## pauljames87 (Nov 30, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Itâ€™s gone over everyoneâ€™s head, itâ€™s Daveâ€™s game and only he knows the rules.

Click to expand...

glad im not the only one lol

match of day is too late for me tonight ill watch tomorrow morning lol


----------



## Tashyboy (Nov 30, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Mendy's been absolutely dreadful today. What has happened to him? Was so good when he first signed for City but since his injuries he's been shocking. I thought Angelino was bad in the week!
		
Click to expand...

This has hit the nail firmly on the head he is woefully slow and Rammel.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Nov 30, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			Interesting handball in the lead up to the Ings goal. Should VAR have spotted that?
		
Click to expand...

Well yes thatâ€™s why they exist.


----------



## Piece (Nov 30, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well yes thatâ€™s why they exist.
		
Click to expand...

Yes handball and goal should have been chalked off, but I'm not using that as an excuse. We weren't good enough after the Geri sub and that is squarely at QSF's feet.


----------



## Piece (Dec 1, 2019)

jobr1850 said:



			Gone

will be confirmed tomorrow morning
		
Click to expand...

My Twitter saying the same


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2019)

Piece said:



			Yes handball and goal should have been chalked off, but I'm not using that as an excuse. We weren't good enough after the Geri sub and that is squarely at QSF's feet.
		
Click to expand...

VAR is inconsistent though ,chalked off the West Ham goal today for handball.


----------



## Piece (Dec 1, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			VAR is inconsistent though ,chalked off the West Ham goal today for handball.
		
Click to expand...

Yup. We suffered because VAR had been taking too long so they didn't show the right angle.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 1, 2019)

Klopp needs to ask for a refund on his VAR/Ref payment.

Alisson has a moment of utter madness that could've cost us the game, luckily it never.

I've been critical of refs at times but at least Martin Atkinson is consistently shit.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 1, 2019)

Looks like the Watford manager could be available for Arsenal.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 1, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Looks like the Watford manager could be available for Arsenal.
		
Click to expand...

If Watford hang on theyâ€™ll be able to get Silva back ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Piece (Dec 1, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			If Watford hang on theyâ€™ll be able to get Silva back ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2019)

Piece said:





Click to expand...

If you've been tapping him up we will want compensation mind ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2019)

Odd looking side from Freddie first up, i guess the initial plan is not to change much


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 1, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If you've been tapping him up we will want compensation mind ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£
		
Click to expand...

I reckon Everton would pay Watford to take him ðŸ˜ðŸ˜


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 1, 2019)

fundy said:



			Odd looking side from Freddie first up, i guess the initial plan is not to change much
		
Click to expand...

The 16/5 about Norwich doesnt seem a bad bet now


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The 16/5 about Norwich doesnt seem a bad bet now
		
Click to expand...

Should just be a shoot out looking at our line up and their home record, decent enough attacking options but a horror looking back 4 (even worse than the usual), be interesting to see if the midfield sit deeper to protect more


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 1, 2019)

If so, why no Torreira? As you say, interesting selection.


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2019)

well theres seems to be less faffing about with it at the back and a willingness to get it forward quicker


----------



## GG26 (Dec 1, 2019)

Fish said:



			Poor selection cost us today, if Kante & Willian are fit then they have to start. 

Giroud offered nothing, for all the possession and chances we had in the first half, we should have scored, but then 2 poor subs again for me. 

Batsy should have come on as we clearly needed a goal, and he can sniff them out with half a chance. 

WH defended well and soaked up the first half pressure, the second half we didnâ€™t trouble them and their goal was very well taken. 

Bad day for us, but unlike other teams, I think weâ€™ll become stronger for it and Frank will learn from it also. 

London Derbyâ€™s are always unpredictable but we lacked effort today and didnâ€™t trouble a debutant PL keeper.
		
Click to expand...

I could never understand Sarriâ€™s use of Kante and as you say if not injured has to play.


----------



## Wolf (Dec 1, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			If so, why no Torreira? As you say, interesting selection.
		
Click to expand...

That's the one I'm not sure about perhaps Torreira needs time to see how he feels who knows. I don't think the rest of the line up is much of a surprise as Bellerin still injured, Tierney still not 100% fit for 90 mins and could have a good impact later in the game down the left side. I think it's what could probably be described as a very safe bet of a line up for a first game in charge against a team that should be beatable. 

Either way let's hope we don't have any of the Emery faffing we had before.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 1, 2019)

#freddieout!


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2019)

horrid pen


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2019)

paddyc said:



			#freddieout!
		
Click to expand...

oi!!!!!! youll upset the troll

2nd time lucky plse


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2019)

paddyc said:



			#freddieout!
		
Click to expand...

#freddiebackin


----------



## paddyc (Dec 1, 2019)

paddyc said:



			#freddieout!
		
Click to expand...

#freddiebackin


----------



## Slime (Dec 1, 2019)

QSF finally sacked, no idea where they'll go from here.


----------



## MegaSteve (Dec 1, 2019)

Pleased to see Ozil starting... Arguably most creative player in the squad and without him, on the field, feel it's a disadvantage...


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2019)

That could have been red ,over the top from McLean.
Refs let a few to many go I think.

Great finish Cantwell.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 1, 2019)

paddyc said:



			#freddiebackin
		
Click to expand...

#freddiebackout!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2019)

On the pen whatâ€™s the rule as his body is over the line but he quite clearly has his foot planted on the ground outside the box?
Players must learn to stay outside the box.


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2019)

paddyc said:



			#freddiebackout!
		
Click to expand...

get the feeling this has more legs yet haha

not sure if theres any been a slower back 4 than chambers kolasinac luiz and mustafi has there


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2019)

So if your on the line you are in the box according to pundits.
As long as itâ€™s consistent thatâ€™s fine,


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2019)

what a save that is but stop giving it away there ffs


----------



## paddyc (Dec 1, 2019)

ffs why do we give teams so much space in and around the box to shoot at will. no change there. we still look fragile and a soft touch.


----------



## Norrin Radd (Dec 1, 2019)

Hughton for Watford ?


----------



## paddyc (Dec 1, 2019)

time to freshen it up Freddie changes needed.


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2019)

paddyc said:



			ffs why do we give teams so much space in and around the box to shoot at will. no change there. we still look fragile and a soft touch.
		
Click to expand...


no pace at the back, luiz just strolling around leaving mustafi to try and deal with pukki and xhaka and doozi not bothering to track cantwells runs

leno and aubam bailing us out so far


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2019)

paddyc said:



			time to freshen it up Freddie changes needed.
		
Click to expand...

torreira for xhaka, pepe for willock (saving martinelli for laca)


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2019)

Why on earth did Ljungberg think bringing Mustafi back in would be a good idea? This Arsenal team have been carved open, Norwich should be 4-2 up really.


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Why on earth did Ljungberg think bringing Mustafi back in would be a good idea? This Arsenal team have been carved open, Norwich should be 4-2 up really.
		
Click to expand...


lets be honest mustafi, sokratis, luiz etc, its names in a hat and pick 2 out lol, theyre all as bad as each other!


----------



## Wolf (Dec 1, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Why on earth did Ljungberg think bringing Mustafi back in would be a good idea? This Arsenal team have been carved open, Norwich should be 4-2 up really.
		
Click to expand...

Because in realistic terms Mustafi has actually been our most reliable defender this year, though that's been in Europe says a lot about our lack of defensive quality. The signs have been there for several years now during Wengers time and emery tenure that we are woefully short of quality at the back. We signed Tierney which in the long run will be good but we addressed the main problem by signing Luiz and Pepe.. Ones a sideshow defender and the other was signed for no reason  anyone can fathom as we needed centre backs. Even Cahill being available would have been a better option at centre back than what we have.


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2019)

Apart from Leno and Aubam, and maybe Ozil, the rest been pretty disappointing yet again


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2019)

Whatever the end result Norwich have played some lovely stuff today. None of the 3 promoted teams are mugs this year.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2019)

fundy said:



			Apart from Leno and Aubam, and maybe Ozil, the rest been pretty disappointing yet again 

Click to expand...

Think Ozil is good with the ball, but a passenger when you haven't got it.
Keeper was brilliant or different story.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 1, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Whatever the end result Norwich have played some lovely stuff today. None of the 3 promoted teams are mugs this year.
		
Click to expand...

Any team that plays against Arsenal are allowed to play some lovely stuff as we just dont press or pick people up.


----------



## Wolf (Dec 1, 2019)

fundy said:



			Apart from Leno and Aubam, and maybe Ozil, the rest been pretty disappointing yet again 

Click to expand...

Leno has been our outstanding performer for me this year and some of our results would have been even worse were it not for him. The board needs to get the right man in to settle the club and that man needs to strengthen our defence.


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Leno has been our outstanding performer for me this year and some of our results would have been even worse were it not for him. The board needs to get the right man in to settle the club and that man needs to strengthen our defence.
		
Click to expand...


pretty sure weve been needing 2 proper centre halfs a big solid central midfielder and a leader for 10+ years now havent we


----------



## Wolf (Dec 1, 2019)

fundy said:



			pretty sure weve been needing 2 proper centre halfs a big solid central midfielder and a leader for 10+ years now havent we 

Click to expand...

Without a doubt hence my earlier post. Its been at least a decade since we had a decent centre half, we signed Torreira who was a piece of that jigsaw but have managed to alienate him into a shell of what we signed.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2019)

paddyc said:



			Any team that plays against Arsenal are allowed to play some lovely stuff as we just dont press or pick people up.
		
Click to expand...

I get that but let's give them a bit of credit still. They moved the ball with pace, snap, they were good to watch. Arsenal had no bite, no question. Keeper kept them in it.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I get that but let's give them a bit of credit still. They moved the ball with pace, snap, they were good to watch. Arsenal had no bite, no question. Keeper kept them in it.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah Norwich were certainly the better side, unfortunately spurned several chances and Leno made 2 or 3 excellent saves. They'll be happy Pukki ended his drought anyway.


----------



## Piece (Dec 1, 2019)

Norrin Radd said:



			Hughton for Watford ?
		
Click to expand...

Do I not like that


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2019)

5.9 for Chilwell


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 1, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Why on earth did Ljungberg think bringing Mustafi back in would be a good idea? This Arsenal team have been carved open, Norwich should be 4-2 up really.
		
Click to expand...

How poor are Arsenal? I was quite shocked having not watched them play for a while, absolute pony


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 1, 2019)

Well looks like they have got VAR working correctly in this game


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			How poor are Arsenal? I was quite shocked having not watched them play for a while, absolute pony 

Click to expand...

wait till they lose Aubameyang Torreira and maybe Lacazette!


----------



## Wolf (Dec 1, 2019)

fundy said:



			wait till they lose Aubameyang Torreira and maybe Lacazette!
		
Click to expand...

And when one the big boys comes in for Leno as has been rumoured recently. Then we'll firmly be midtable with a squad that resembles the local park on a Sunday.


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2019)

Wolf said:



			And when one the big boys comes in for Leno as has been rumoured recently. Then we'll firmly be midtable with a squad that resembles the local park on a Sunday.
		
Click to expand...

firmly midtable might be optimistic lol


----------



## MegaSteve (Dec 1, 2019)

Wolf said:



			And when one the big boys comes in for Leno as has been rumoured recently. Then we'll firmly be midtable with a squad that resembles the local park on a Sunday.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately Wrighty has been proved correct in describing the owners as "The masters of mediocrity" ... 

Thinking about it, though, he might be guilty of massive understatement...


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2019)

5.7 for Mina


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2019)

fundy said:



			5.7 for Mina
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s embarrassing from Mina.


----------



## Fish (Dec 1, 2019)

Only read not watched the overturned (Var) Leicester goal whereâ€™s itâ€™s been reported there was no contact, so how come the player involved who went to ground wasnâ€™t booked or worse.


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2019)

Fish said:



			Only read not watched the overturned (Var) Leicester goal whereâ€™s itâ€™s been reported there was no contact, so how come the player involved who went to ground wasnâ€™t booked or worse.
		
Click to expand...

VAR not allowed to give a yellow, only reds, and was never a red


----------



## Jensen (Dec 1, 2019)

Vardy, take those gloves off you tool!


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 1, 2019)

VAR in getting correct decision shocker ðŸ¤£


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 1, 2019)

Nice impartial comments by Carra. 

Atmosphere seems ok after the VAR too....


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2019)

Harsh if Silva goes on the back of that, it would be rough. He has surely bought himself the derby game.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Nice impartial comments by Carra.

Atmosphere seems ok after the VAR too....
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, I noticed that. Good job everyone in his team are all honest ðŸ™„


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 1, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Nice impartial comments by Carra.
		
Click to expand...

He's an absolute tool, complete knob of a commentator.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 1, 2019)

Liverpool will be pleased...
Reached that magic 40 points - should guarantee another year in the Prem...


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 1, 2019)

Bit harsh on Everton .
Good game to watch though.


----------



## Jensen (Dec 1, 2019)

Why into injury time do Everton push forward for the win, particularly with who they're playing and their confidence.
Literally only saw snippets, but Tom Davis cost you for the winner and he did the same earlier in the second half.
Tough one for you toffees to digest


----------



## Slime (Dec 1, 2019)

United were very poor today, yet again.
We so desperately need a creative midfielder with at least half a brain. The build up play was so very slow.
January is going to be very important for United, in fact, crucial.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 1, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Why into injury time do Everton push forward for the win, particularly with who they're playing and their confidence.
Literally only saw snippets, but Tom Davis cost you for the winner and he did the same earlier in the second half.
Tough one for you toffees to digest
		
Click to expand...

Lack of nous. The one thing you don't give Leicester is space to run into. They like a game to be stretched, space for runners. We gave them that for their goal.

There is no digestion happening, only choking right now ðŸ¤¬


----------



## Dan2501 (Dec 1, 2019)

Kelechi Iheanacho changed that game. Transformed the way Leicester were playing and started causing us real problems. Fair play to Rodgers for bringing him on. Disappointing from Everton again, Marco's time has to be coming to an end now, especially with the run of games ahead, he won't still be in charge come Christmas.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 1, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Why into injury time do Everton push forward for the win, particularly with who they're playing and their confidence.
Literally only saw snippets, *but Tom Davis cost you for the winner* and he did the same earlier in the second half.
Tough one for you toffees to digest
		
Click to expand...

Bit harsh that, I donâ€™t think he shouldâ€™ve been on the pitch, he was struggling after 60 minutes. Poor game management from Silva I thought.


----------



## Fish (Dec 1, 2019)

Slime said:



			United were very poor today, yet again.
We so desperately need a creative midfielder with at least half a brain. The build up play was so very slow.
January is going to be very important for United, in fact, crucial.
		
Click to expand...

You cost me a Leicester United double with Vardy to +3 shots on target ðŸ˜¡


----------



## Fish (Dec 1, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Harsh if Silva goes on the back of that, it would be rough. He has surely bought himself the derby game.
		
Click to expand...

I think heâ€™ll go tonight before the derby, sometimes thereâ€™s a positive reaction from players, if you keep him itâ€™s a dead rubber midweek and just more shite landing on his lap, keep him until next Sunday I say ðŸ˜


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Vardy, take those gloves off you tool!
		
Click to expand...

What was wrong with his gloves?? I didn't notice.


----------



## Jensen (Dec 1, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			What was wrong with his gloves?? I didn't notice.
		
Click to expand...

Enough that he's pathetic to wear them, there's nothing worse in football. Exactly like when Aaron Lennon wore them at Spurs.
I was always told from a young age, you run around to keep warm.
I certainly couldn't see the late great Brian Clough allowing his players to embarrass his club.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 1, 2019)

Freddie has been in charge for two days, and is having to pick up Arsenal from the disasterclass that was Emery. Give him more than one game before judging please.

Didn't watch it. Was walking on Studland, up on the ridge above Old Harry (not Rednapp, a rock formation). Glorious views, blue skies, baltic cold, and windy as.


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Freddie has been in charge for two days, and is having to pick up Arsenal from the disasterclass that was Emery. Give him more than one game before judging please.

Didn't watch it. Was walking on Studland, up on the ridge above Old Harry (not Rednapp, a rock formation). Glorious views, blue skies, baltic cold, and windy as.
		
Click to expand...

not sure anyones criticising Freddie after 1 training session, more being realistic about how bad a state we are in asset wise and how big a task its going to be to turn it round especially if we were to lose the 2 or 3 top quality assets we do still have  (ps wouldnt worry with the highlights  )


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 1, 2019)

fundy said:



			not sure anyones criticising Freddie after 1 training session, more being realistic about how bad a state we are in asset wise and how big a task its going to be to turn it round especially if we were to lose the 2 or 3 top quality assets we do still have  (ps wouldnt worry with the highlights  )
		
Click to expand...

The true reflection of Wengers Legacy. Bit like Yernited, Ferguson left a mess too.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 1, 2019)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.givemesport.com/1526205-brendan-rodgers-reveals-he-has-a-release-clause-in-his-leicester-contract?amp

Well that seems a clear come and get me ðŸ˜‰


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The true reflection of Wengers Legacy. Bit like Yernited, Ferguson left a mess too.
		
Click to expand...


been destroying asset value for years (may have been more the board than wenger mind) still some decent players and some good youngsters but cant keep ignoring the glaring issues


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 1, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Enough that he's pathetic to wear them, there's nothing worse in football. Exactly like when Aaron Lennon wore them at Spurs.
I was always told from a young age, you run around to keep warm.
I certainly couldn't see the late great Brian Clough allowing his players to *embarrass his club*.
		
Click to expand...

I'm kinda conflicted. My dad certainly would have told me not to be so soft, but as someone with real poor circulation, my hands and feet freeze in the winter, to the point i wear shoes a size up and two pairs of socks.

Re the bit in bold, considering his behaviour in a casino prior to their tittle win was forgotten the second he started scoring goals for em, not sure the club or fans will be too concerned!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 1, 2019)

fundy said:



			been destroying asset value for years (may have been more the board than wenger mind) still some decent players and some good youngsters but cant keep ignoring the glaring issues
		
Click to expand...

When does that stop though. You can only asset strip so far until the bottom of the barrel is reached
Sanches Flores sacked so would he fit the Arsenal mould? I doubt it and they seem set on a "big" manager. Who do Watford go for and how big a job to keep them up (can't see it)


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			When does that stop though. You can only asset strip so far until the bottom of the barrel is reached
Sanches Flores sacked so would he fit the Arsenal mould? I doubt it and they seem set on a "big" manager. Who do Watford go for and how big a job to keep them up (can't see it)
		
Click to expand...


are you serious? Sanches Flores? really? would you want him at Fulham in the championship lol


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 1, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.givemesport.com/1526205-brendan-rodgers-reveals-he-has-a-release-clause-in-his-leicester-contract?amp

Well that seems a clear come and get me ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

What makes you say that?
Looks to me like he was just answering a question & pointing out that most mangers have a release clause ðŸ¤·â€â™‚ï¸


----------



## Wolf (Dec 1, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Enough that he's pathetic to wear them, there's nothing worse in football. Exactly like when Aaron Lennon wore them at Spurs.
I was always told from a young age, you run around to keep warm.
I certainly couldn't see the late great Brian Clough allowing his players to embarrass his club.
		
Click to expand...

What's wrong with wearing gloves... Running around to warm up you'd still have cold hands and wearing them doesn't make you less of man it's makes you sensible to realise there's no point being cold if you don't have to be ðŸ¤·â€â™‚ï¸



HomerJSimpson said:



			When does that stop though. You can only asset strip so far until the bottom of the barrel is reached
Sanches Flores sacked so would he fit the Arsenal mould? I doubt it and they seem set on a "big" manager. Who do Watford go for and how big a job to keep them up (can't see it)
		
Click to expand...

Have you been on the crack pipe Homer ðŸ¤” Sanches Flores sacked from a club rooted to the bottom of the PL worse than us on what planet would we consider him good enough.. Whatever you've been on send some my way ðŸ˜‚


----------



## GG26 (Dec 1, 2019)

Donâ€™t believe that Iâ€™ve screamed so loud as when Ihanachoâ€˜a shot went in.  Based on his previous performances I was expecting it to hit the back of the stand.  Fair play to him, that was his best half an hour in a Leicester shirt.

We played some great football today, but Everton were always a threat.  Along with Wolves the best opposition to come to us this season.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 1, 2019)

fundy said:



			been destroying asset value for years (may have been more the board than wenger mind) still some decent players and some good youngsters but cant keep ignoring the glaring issues
		
Click to expand...

He still allowed it to happen, whilst taking the Â£6m per year.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 1, 2019)

Wolf said:



			What's wrong with wearing gloves... Running around to warm up you'd still have cold hands and wearing them doesn't make you less of man it's makes you sensible to realise there's no point being cold if you don't have to be ðŸ¤·â€â™‚ï¸


Have you been on the crack pipe Homer ðŸ¤” Sanches Flores sacked from a club rooted to the bottom of the PL worse than us on what planet would we consider him good enough.. Whatever you've been on send some my way ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Given the Arsenal board........................

Of course it won't happen. To be fair, first time at Watford I thought he was a half decent manager but this time seemed somehow out of his depth. Has the PL really moved on that far in the few seasons he was away?


----------



## Wolf (Dec 1, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Given the Arsenal board........................

Don't think it'll happen at all but one more manager available.
		
Click to expand...

Still failing  to see your logic even with our board.. The logic behind Emery was his recent successes of 3 x Europa  League Cup wins with a relative budget squad and French League 1 title with PSG so he had some sort of calibre. Whereas QSF won what a single Europa league a dozen years ago and since gone backwards in  level club and has rooted Watford to foot of the table all season. Our board may seem like they lack intelligence but there not going to go from Emery who has flopped  to a manager with a worse record. 

That'd be like Parker getting sacked at Fulham and replacing him with me...


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 1, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Still failing  to see your logic even with our board.. The logic behind Emery was his recent successes of 3 x Europa  League Cup wins with a relative budget squad and French League 1 title with PSG so he had some sort of calibre. Whereas QSF won what a single Europa league a dozen years ago and since gone backwards in  level club and has rooted Watford to foot of the table all season. Our board may seem like they lack intelligence but there not going to go from Emery who has flopped  to a manager with a worse record.

That'd be like Parker getting sacked at Fulham and replacing him with me...
		
Click to expand...

Get your CV in. I think Parker has done a good job to date but we've a run of tough games against fellow top 6 clubs and I wonder come the run in next year if he's got enough about him. I was joking about the board. I don't think QSF will get another PL job soon.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 1, 2019)

fundy said:



			are you serious? Sanches Flores? really? would you want him at Fulham in the championship lol
		
Click to expand...

QSF to Arsenal ?!?! ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Enough that he's pathetic to wear them, there's nothing worse in football. Exactly like when Aaron Lennon wore them at Spurs.
I was always told from a young age, you run around to keep warm.
I certainly couldn't see the late great Brian Clough allowing his players to embarrass his club.
		
Click to expand...

Lol, are you being serious? I wore gloves at football today - mainly because no matter how much I run for 90 minutes my hands are always still frozen. I didn't realise I was letting down all of mankind, my bad.


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Still failing  to see your logic even with our board.. The logic behind Emery was his recent successes of 3 x Europa  League Cup wins with a relative budget squad and French League 1 title with PSG so he had some sort of calibre. Whereas QSF won what a single Europa league a dozen years ago and since gone backwards in  level club and has rooted Watford to foot of the table all season. Our board may seem like they lack intelligence but there not going to go from Emery who has flopped  to a manager with a worse record. 

That'd be like Parker getting sacked at Fulham and replacing him with me...
		
Click to expand...


good luck wolf


----------



## Wolf (Dec 1, 2019)

fundy said:



			good luck wolf 

Click to expand...

Cheers mate, once I get the job I'll be sure to come in here for all my tactical advice and to be told who I should sign ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Jensen (Dec 1, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Lol, are you being serious? I wore gloves at football today - mainly because no matter how much I run for 90 minutes my hands are always still frozen. I didn't realise I was letting down all of mankind, my bad. 

Click to expand...

Snowflake ðŸ‘


----------



## Piece (Dec 1, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			QSF to Arsenal ?!?! ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...



File that in the same folder as Poch to Watford!?!?!? ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Jensen (Dec 1, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Lol, are you being serious? I wore gloves at football today - mainly because no matter how much I run for 90 minutes my hands are always still frozen. I didn't realise I was letting down all of mankind, my bad. 

Click to expand...

So based on that analogy, I assume you wore shorts, however regardless of how much you ran your legs were still frozen. So did you wear some sort of leggings under your shorts ?
And if not, then why ?


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 1, 2019)

Jensen said:



			So based on that analogy, I assume you wore shorts, however regardless of how much you ran your legs were still frozen. So did you wear some sort of leggings under your shorts ?
And if not, then why ?
		
Click to expand...

Pretty sure using the muscles in your legs will help the blood flow and keep them somewhat warmer?


----------



## fundy (Dec 1, 2019)

Piece said:





File that in the same folder as Poch to Watford!?!?!? ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...


pretty sure ive never seen that combination of emojis before  winner!


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 1, 2019)

Jensen said:



			So based on that analogy, I assume you wore shorts, however regardless of how much you ran your legs were still frozen. So did you wear some sort of leggings under your shorts ?
And if not, then why ?
		
Click to expand...

I don't have a problem with my legs getting cold. As Papas said it's probably something to do with using your leg muscles to run. But even on the golf course I wear shorts unless it's below 10Â°. My hands are a different story.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 2, 2019)

Jensen said:



			So based on that analogy, I assume you wore shorts, however regardless of how much you ran your legs were still frozen. So did you wear some sort of leggings under your shorts ?
And if not, then why ?
		
Click to expand...

If you wear your correct kit you were long socks don't you.... Which leave very little to get cold from thigh to below knee.. nice big muscle for blood to fill 

Nothing wrong with gloves and I'd suggest vardy is pretty tough ..


----------



## Piece (Dec 2, 2019)

Strong rumours that Messi has won the Balon D'Or. Don't agree at all myself. It really should be VVD.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 2, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			If you wear your correct kit you were long socks don't you.... Which leave very little to get cold from thigh to below knee.. nice big muscle for blood to fill

Nothing wrong with gloves and I'd suggest vardy is pretty tough ..
		
Click to expand...

Not like the good old days when men were men playing on rock hard pitches usually with minimal grass by this time of year and covered in frozen sand. It may be an urban myth but didn't Keith Weller wear a pair of tights under his shorts in a game in the 70's playing for Leicester


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2019)

Piece said:



			Strong rumours that Messi has won the Balon D'Or. Don't agree at all myself. It really should be VVD.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s always going to be Messi - itâ€™s a shame really that his goals will seem more Important than the impact VVD defending and leadership has to us. I maybe bias but VVD should win it


----------



## Piece (Dec 2, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Itâ€™s always going to be Messi - itâ€™s a shame really that his goals will seem more Important than the impact VVD defending and leadership has to us. I maybe bias but VVD should win it
		
Click to expand...

To me, as unbiased observer, VVD has contributed far more to his team over the 12 months than Messi. If Messi helped Barca to Champions League glory, then fair enough. But he didn't and VVD did.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 2, 2019)

Piece said:



			Strong rumours that Messi has won the Balon D'Or. Don't agree at all myself. *It really should be VVD*.
		
Click to expand...

As great as he is, no CB should win the Ballon d'or.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 2, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			As great as he is, no CB should win the Ballon d'or.
		
Click to expand...

Why not?

What about midfielders, or should it only just be strikers that excel?


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 2, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			As great as he is, no CB should win the Ballon d'or.
		
Click to expand...

Behave Stu!

Goalscorers have never won games on their own,  no matter how good they may be.

Van Dijk was the outstanding player last year regardless of his position and should be recognised such.


----------



## Piece (Dec 2, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			As great as he is, no CB should win the Ballon d'or.
		
Click to expand...



If it's an award for rewarding goals and dribbling past people, then I'm watching and coaching the wrong game.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 2, 2019)

I think a lot depends on how you decide the ballon Dâ€™or. If you simply select the player that has been the most vital to a club then thatâ€™s a whole different system imo. 

You could argue De Gea could have won it for 4 years if thatâ€™s the case. If you then include winning things then it becomes closer between the two at the top. Btw Iâ€™m not saying he should before anyone over reacts. 

Messi scored 36 goals in 34 games in the league. Clearly a massive contribution to that win. 
Liverpool conceded in over half their games in the cl, with their most impressive wins being some big scoring games in the later stages. Does that highlight VVD prowess? You could argue maybe not. 

In the league he has clearly improved the defence. That can be seen simply by comparing the 6 months before and after his arrival. But they didnâ€™t win the league, so it has less weight in its importance if we use trophies as a barometer. 

I actually felt last year (and this) that Mane has been the key player. So would find it hard to pick VVD for Balon Dâ€™or simply because if you arenâ€™t Liverpoolâ€™s most important, how can you be Europeâ€™s.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 2, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I think a lot depends on how you decide the ballon Dâ€™or. If you simply select the player that has been the most vital to a club then thatâ€™s a whole different system imo. 

You could argue De Gea could have won it for 4 years if thatâ€™s the case. If you then include winning things then it becomes closer between the two at the top. Btw Iâ€™m not saying he should before anyone over reacts. 

Messi scored 36 goals in 34 games in the league. Clearly a massive contribution to that win. 
Liverpool conceded in over half their games in the cl, with their most impressive wins being some big scoring games in the later stages. Does that highlight VVD prowess? You could argue maybe not. 

In the league he has clearly improved the defence. That can be seen simply by comparing the 6 months before and after his arrival. But they didnâ€™t win the league, so it has less weight in its importance if we use trophies as a barometer. 

I actually felt last year (and this) that Mane has been the key player. So would find it hard to pick VVD for Balon Dâ€™or simply because if you arenâ€™t Liverpoolâ€™s most important, how can you be Europeâ€™s.
		
Click to expand...

Nail on the head there 

VVD is class there is no getting away from it but he isn't the stand out for Liverpool like you say .. stand out CB in the league yes


----------



## Jensen (Dec 2, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not like the good old days when men were men playing on rock hard pitches usually with minimal grass by this time of year and covered in frozen sand. It may be an urban myth but didn't Keith Weller wear a pair of tights under his shorts in a game in the 70's playing for Leicester
		
Click to expand...

You got the team right Homer, but I think it was Frank Worthington


----------



## Jensen (Dec 2, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Homer is correct , Keith Weller wore white tights v Norwich in an FA Cup match in Jan 79
		
Click to expand...

Ok cheers Paul, but I'm sure I remember seeing Frank Worthington on MOTD back in the 70's also wearing them ðŸ‘


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Ok cheers Paul, but I'm sure I remember seeing Frank Worthington on MOTD back in the 70's also wearing them ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Apologies mate, went to add youtube link of match and deleted by accident.
A few others have worn them, Barnes, N Clough, Giggs etc


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 2, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Enough that he's pathetic to wear them, there's nothing worse in football. Exactly like when Aaron Lennon wore them at Spurs.
I was always told from a young age, you run around to keep warm.
*I certainly couldn't see the late great Brian Clough allowing his players to embarrass his club*.
		
Click to expand...




pauldj42 said:



			Apologies mate, went to add youtube link of match and deleted by accident.
A few others have worn them, Barnes,* N Clough*, Giggs etc
		
Click to expand...

Must have been some awkward chats between a dad and his son after that....


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 2, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Must have been some awkward chats between a dad and his son after that....
		
Click to expand...

Tights, as used back then, would protect leg muscles against pulls and strains etc. Gloves don't protect any key muscles that are relevant to football, apart from keepers. 

It's an old school one isn't it? It doesn't do any harm but for for those of a generation it doesn't sit right. I don't quite know why, an era thing.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 2, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Nail on the head there

VVD is class there is no getting away from it but he isn't the stand out for Liverpool like you say .. stand out CB in the league yes
		
Click to expand...

Without him (but with Mane) Liverpool were way off Man City. 

With him they so nearly  won the PL and did win the CL.

Clearly made the difference and, to me, was Liverpool's standout player.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 2, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Tights, as used back then, would protect leg muscles against pulls and strains etc. Gloves don't protect any key muscles that are relevant to football, apart from keepers.

It's an old school one isn't it? It doesn't do any harm but for for those of a generation it doesn't sit right. I don't quite know why, an era thing.
		
Click to expand...

And considering the multi cultural league we have now, I would never begrudge a player who was born and raised in Africa or South America wearing gloves when it's 2Â°c!  But yeah, no point having frozen hands just to maintain some kind of air of imaginery manliness is there.

I draw the line at tights though. I wouldn't wear them, my legs don't feel the cold and it's only about 4 inches between your shorts and your footy socks anyway. A few lads on our Sunday team always the tights. They're not for me but each to their own!


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 2, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Tights, as used back then, would protect leg muscles against pulls and strains etc. Gloves don't protect any key muscles that are relevant to football, apart from keepers. 

It's an old school one isn't it? It doesn't do any harm but for for those of a generation it doesn't sit right. I don't quite know why, an era thing.
		
Click to expand...

Oh I accept the benefits, but, if someone is gonna object to someone wearing gloves because it makes you look soft. I doubt very much that theyâ€™d be ok with someone wearing tights.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 2, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Ok cheers Paul, but I'm sure I remember seeing Frank Worthington on MOTD back in the 70's also wearing them ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

No it was Weller.

Worthington was in the same Leicester team though.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 2, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Oh I accept the benefits, but, if someone is gonna object to someone wearing gloves because it makes you look soft. I doubt very much that theyâ€™d be ok with someone wearing tights.
		
Click to expand...

Fair point . To be honest, I played club hockey for 20 years, a good chunk up in the NE where the wind cuts you in two in winter, and once the game starts I never felt the need for tights or even a t-shirt under my shirt. Once you are running your body heats you up. Pro-footballers have stands around them stopping the worst of a cold wind. They want to try flat open pitches, on top of hills etc. (I've gone 3 Yorkshiremen there, apologies ) In the modern era of football, the amount these guys run, I'm amazed they need extra layers. The only excuse could be the material used for kit, it is pretty lightweight.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Nail on the head there

VVD is class there is no getting away from it but he isn't the stand out for Liverpool like you say .. stand out CB in the league yes
		
Click to expand...

VVD is our stand out player - he is our most important player , VVD arriving was the key to making the next step up.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 2, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fair point . To be honest, I played club hockey for 20 years, a good chunk up in the NE where the wind cuts you in two in winter, and once the game starts I never felt the need for tights or even a t-shirt under my shirt. Once you are running your body heats you up. Pro-footballers have stands around them stopping the worst of a cold wind. They want to try flat open pitches, on top of hills etc. (I've gone 3 Yorkshiremen there, apologies ) In the modern era of football, the amount these guys run, I'm amazed they need extra layers. The only excuse could be the material used for kit, it is pretty lightweight.
		
Click to expand...

 Did you have to clean out the lake and eat cold gravel, as well?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 2, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I think a lot depends on how you decide the ballon Dâ€™or. If you simply select the player that has been the most vital to a club then thatâ€™s a whole different system imo.

You could argue De Gea could have won it for 4 years if thatâ€™s the case. If you then include winning things then it becomes closer between the two at the top. Btw Iâ€™m not saying he should before anyone over reacts.

Messi scored 36 goals in 34 games in the league. Clearly a massive contribution to that win.
Liverpool conceded in over half their games in the cl, with their most impressive wins being some big scoring games in the later stages. Does that highlight VVD prowess? You could argue maybe not.

In the league he has clearly improved the defence. That can be seen simply by comparing the 6 months before and after his arrival. But they didnâ€™t win the league, so it has less weight in its importance if we use trophies as a barometer.

I actually felt last year (and this) that Mane has been the key player. So would find it hard to pick VVD for Balon Dâ€™or simply because if you arenâ€™t Liverpoolâ€™s most important, how can you be Europeâ€™s.
		
Click to expand...

Some fair points, but under Brendan we scored tonnes of goals and let tonnes in, keeping them out at the other end or down to a minimum can be more beneficial.

Mane is our best forward and has been for 12 months, but Alison and VVD have made a massive difference into how hard we are to beat, and VVD has also brought an overall calmness to the team, which has been absent for 20 years plus, whereas we have always scored more than our fair share of goals.

VVD IMO has made the biggest difference to us as a team, CL winner, and but for 2 points would have been a league winner also.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 2, 2019)

VVD is an absolute joy to watch live,


Liverbirdie said:



			Why not?

What about midfielders, or should it only just be strikers that excel?
		
Click to expand...

VVD is an absolute joy to watch live, its effortless at times and theres no doubting his ability or his contribution to our team in the last 18 months. CB's dont get you on the edge of your seat like Suarez,Messi, Mane and Hendo do. 

Midfielders and strikers are the bread and butter, keepers and defenders are there to make up the numbers ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 2, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



 Did you have to clean out the lake and eat cold gravel, as well?
		
Click to expand...

Before the sun came up, obviously .

Joking apart and relating to gravel, the coldest I have ever been was on top of a hill in Macclesfield, Tytherington for any locals, playing hockey on what passed for an 'all weather' pitch back in the 80's. Bascially, compact sand and gravel. Apart from the biting wind, if you ever fell over your skin was stripped, you could also get a face full of gravel when someone hit the ball and you were nearby. A hateful surface that was thankfully replaced by astroturf. Even the early astros were better than all weather pitches.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 2, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Some fair points, but under Brendan we scored tonnes of goals and let tonnes in, keeping them out at the other end or down to a minimum can be more beneficial.

Mane is our best forward and has been for 12 months, but Alison and VVD have made a massive difference into how hard we are to beat, and VVD has also brought an overall calmness to the team, which has been absent for 20 years plus, whereas we have always scored more than our fair share of goals.

VVD IMO has made the biggest difference to us as a team, CL winner, and but for 2 points would have been a league winner also.
		
Click to expand...

Fully agree overall that he and Alison have made massive improvements defensively. Which clearly helped in regards to your massive league improvement. 

But if weâ€™re using the CL as the overriding factor, deciding thatâ€™s more important than a league win for Messi. I genuinely donâ€™t think it was your improved defence that won it. You may correct me here, but I donâ€™t recall any resolute defensive games in the knockouts where you held on for a vital clean sheet. You either got hammered or hammered a team lol

Other than the final which was a non event. 

Unfortunately defenders just donâ€™t win these awards. I can only recall Cannavaro and thatâ€™s was after his country won the World Cup.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 2, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Fully agree overall that he and Alison have made massive improvements defensively. Which clearly helped in regards to your massive league improvement.

But if weâ€™re using the CL as the overriding factor, deciding thatâ€™s more important than a league win for Messi. I genuinely donâ€™t think it was your improved defence that won it. You may correct me here, but I donâ€™t recall any resolute defensive games in the knockouts where you held on for a vital clean sheet. You either got hammered or hammered a team lol

Other than the final which was a non event.

Unfortunately defenders just donâ€™t win these awards. I can only recall Cannavaro and thatâ€™s was after his country won the World Cup.
		
Click to expand...

But was Messi any more instrumental in Barcelona winning a national title that only two other clubs could have won than Van Dijk was in Liverpool winning the world's premier club competition?


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 2, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			But was Messi any more instrumental in Barcelona winning a national title that only two other clubs could have won than Van Dijk was in Liverpool winning the world's premier club competition?
		
Click to expand...

As I said previously. 36 in 34 league games would from the outside look pretty clear that he did. The same as Liverpoolâ€™s better defence since VVD joined shows heâ€™s made a improvement in the leagues I just donâ€™t know if VVD performances are as tangible in the CL.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 2, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			As I said previously. 36 in 34 league games would from the outside look pretty clear that he did. The same as Liverpoolâ€™s better defence since VVD joined shows heâ€™s made a improvement in the leagues I just donâ€™t know if VVD performances are as tangible in the CL.
		
Click to expand...

So what was Messi's effect upon Barcelona in the CL?


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 2, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			So what was Messi's effect upon Barcelona in the CL?
		
Click to expand...

I havent said he had any effect on their CL campaign. 

I clearly said that Messi had less affect in the CL. People have been saying its based on their contribution to wins. Imo Messis contribution to their league win is clearer than VVD contribution to the CL win. 

VVD is absolute quality. I watched him enough with us to, know that long before he joined Liverpool. But if I was picking on or the other. Id pick Messi first.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 2, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I havenâ€™t said he had any effect on their CL campaign.

I clearly said that Messi had less affect in the CL. People have been saying itâ€™s based on contribution to wins. Imo Messis contribution to their league win is clearer than VVD contribution to the CL win.

VVD is absolute quality. I watched him enough with us to, know that long before he joined Liverpool. But if I was picking on or the other. Iâ€™d pick Messi first.
		
Click to expand...

Which was more difficult to win, Primera Liga or Champions League?

Fewer games in the latter but a higher level of competition


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 2, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			Which was more difficult to win, Primera Liga or Champions League?

Fewer games in the latter but a higher level of competition
		
Click to expand...

Imo the Cl is harder for Barca to win, the PL is harder for Liverpool to win. Hence them being in 4 finals I believe since their last title.

That said, that has zero relevance to my POV. As I’ve repeated, and will do one last time. I don’t think VVD’s contribution is as clear in the cl as it is in the league. So I wouldn’t use it as a deciding factor.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 2, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Imo the Cl is harder for Barca to win, the PL is harder for Liverpool to win. Hence them being in 4 finals I believe since their last title.

That said, that has zero relevance to my POV. As I’ve repeated, and will do one last time. I don’t think VVD’s contribution is as clear in the cl as it is in the league. So I wouldn’t use it as a deciding factor.
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough. 

In the same way I have never regarded the efforts of Messi, or Ronaldo, in winning a comparatively easy domestic league to be much of a guide to their form and achievements.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 2, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			Fair enough. 

In the same way I have never regarded the efforts of Messi, or Ronaldo, in winning a comparatively easy domestic league to be much of a guide to their form and achievements.
		
Click to expand...

Which is totally fair. Generally their CL performances are still superior then everyone else’s. 

Certainly getting to the end of that era.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 2, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I havent said he had any effect on their CL campaign.

I clearly said that Messi had less affect in the CL. People have been saying its based on their contribution to wins. Imo Messis contribution to their league win is clearer than VVD contribution to the CL win.

VVD is absolute quality. I watched him enough with us to, know that long before he joined Liverpool. But if I was picking on or the other. Id pick Messi first.
		
Click to expand...

Using the logic of winning the league a Man City player should have won it.
As PL is harder than any other .


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 2, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Using the logic of winning the league a Man City player should have won it.
As PL is harder than any other .
		
Click to expand...

Not at all. 

Most people consider them two the stand out Players. Then you need reasons to separate them. 

For all the talk of the pl being tougher. For the last 2 years city have been 20 points plus ahead of third. Having no real competition in17/*8 and one team as comp last year. Is that any different to La Liga. Barcelona still have to finish ahead of arguably the biggest team in the world if they want to win the title.


----------



## TheDiablo (Dec 2, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			Fair enough. 

In the same way I have never regarded the efforts of Messi, or Ronaldo, in winning a comparatively easy domestic league to be much of a guide to their form and achievements.
		
Click to expand...

Comparatively easy compared to the Prem? Not unless you swallow the Sky hype machine, Prem has been guff for depth for a decade now and the gap in quality is only getting larger.


----------



## Fish (Dec 2, 2019)

FA Cup Draw 

Leicester V wigan
QPR V Swansea
Fulham V Aston Villa
Chelsea V Notts Forest
Wolves V Man Utd
Charlton V West Brom
Rochdale/Boston V Newcastle
Cardiff V Forest Green/ Carlisle
Oxford V Exeter/ Hartlepool
Sheff Utd V AFC Flyde
Saints V Huddersfield
Liverpool V Everton
Bristol City V Shrewsbury
Bournemouth V Luton
Brighton V Sheff Wed
Bristol Rovers/Plymouth
Eastleigh/Crewe V Barnsley
Man City V Port Vale
Middlesbrough V Tottenham
Reading V Blackpool
Watford V Tranmere
Preston V Norwich
Millwall V Newport County
Palace V Derby
Solihull/ Rotherham V Hull City
Brentford V Stoke City
Fleetwood Town V Portsmouth
Arsenal V Leeds
Gillingham V West Ham
Burton V Northampton
Burnley V Peterborough
Birmingham V Blackburn Rovers


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 2, 2019)

Man City in easy cup draw shock 🙄


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 2, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Liverpool in easy cup draw shock 😁
		
Click to expand...

Typo?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 2, 2019)

One stand out of course but I like the look of Arsenal v Leeds and think Leeds can win that and Wolves v Man Utd and can see that being a home win too. Hard to see where the giant killing will come from


----------



## Captainron (Dec 2, 2019)

Fish said:



			FA Cup Draw

Leicester V wigan
QPR V Swansea
Fulham V Aston Villa
Chelsea V Notts Forest
Wolves V Man Utd
Charlton V West Brom
Rochdale/Boston V Newcastle
Cardiff V Forest Green/ Carlisle
Oxford V Exeter/ Hartlepool
Sheff Utd V AFC Flyde
Saints V Huddersfield
Liverpool V Everton
Bristol City V Shrewsbury
Bournemouth V Luton
Brighton V Sheff Wed
Bristol Rovers/Plymouth
Eastleigh/Crewe V Barnsley
Man City V Port Vale
Middlesbrough V Tottenham
Reading V Blackpool
Watford V Tranmere
Preston V Norwich
Millwall V Newport County
Palace V Derby
Solihull/ Rotherham V Hull City
Brentford V Stoke City
Fleetwood Town V Portsmouth
Arsenal V Leeds
Gillingham V West Ham
Burton V Northampton
Burnley V Peterborough
Birmingham V Blackburn Rovers
		
Click to expand...

This is a premier league thread Robin. Open a useless third rate cup that only non Champions League teams really want to win above all else thread......


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 2, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			Comparatively easy compared to the Prem? Not unless you swallow the Sky hype machine, Prem has been guff for depth for a decade now and the gap in quality is only getting larger.
		
Click to expand...

I am the last person to believe any Sky promoted hype. 

However, it seems pretty clear to me, and many others, that the EPL is a more difficult league to win. 

Not because of the number of potential winners but due to challenges provided by the teams at the lower end of the league. 

Obviously there will be occasional mismatches (Man City 8 Watford 0, Soton 0 Leicester 9) but generally there are few games where the top clubs can cruise.


----------



## Fish (Dec 2, 2019)

Alisson is the first ever winner of the Yachine Trophy! 🧤

It’s presented to the best performing goalkeeper of the year, alongside the Ballon d’Or. 🏆


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2019)

Well no surprise Messi wins - disappointing but I guess no one will be surprised, im more surprised that Ronaldo didn’t come second. 

It’s a shame that who does the voting now can’t see past Messi - yes he scored lots of goals in La Liga but when the big game arrived he was missing


----------



## TheDiablo (Dec 2, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			I am the last person to believe any Sky promoted hype. 

However, it seems pretty clear to me, and many others, that the EPL is a more difficult league to win. 

Not because of the number of potential winners but due to challenges provided by the teams at the lower end of the league. 

Obviously there will be occasional mismatches (Man City 8 Watford 0, Soton 0 Leicester 9) but generally there are few games where the top clubs can cruise.
		
Click to expand...

The top two nearly broke 100 points each last season. City did the year before. That's not a competitive or strong league. Neither of those sides are any better than the United/Chelsea/Arsenal teams of the 00s, yet aren't being challenged to anywhere near the extent those sides were. 

18th place points total is trending downwards over time. 40 points hasn't been a requirement for some time now. 

The teams at the lower end of the league are awful in comparison to the top, and no better than those in the other top leagues across Europe.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2019)

Just seen the Cup draw


----------



## Piece (Dec 2, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well no surprise Messi wins - disappointing but I guess no one will be surprised, im more surprised that Ronaldo didn’t come second.

It’s a shame that who does the voting now can’t see past Messi - yes he scored lots of goals in La Liga but when the big game arrived he was missing
		
Click to expand...

Surprised but not surprised if you know what I mean. Messi could be injured for 6 months and still win it


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 2, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			The top two nearly broke 100 points each last season. City did the year before. That's not a competitive or strong league. Neither of those sides are any better than the United/Chelsea/Arsenal teams of the 00s, yet aren't being challenged to anywhere near the extent those sides were.

18th place points total is trending downwards over time. 40 points hasn't been a requirement for some time now.

The teams at the lower end of the league are awful in comparison to the top, and no better than those in the other top leagues across Europe.
		
Click to expand...

That said I think you can argue that from bottom-third down in most of the top leagues, the sides aren't that strong. Lets take 16th place randomly. PL is Brighton, Germany is Hertha Berlin (in relegation play-off spot) Italy is Lecce and Spain in Eibar. Hardly scary names. 

I do however think you have a point regarding the PL and the bottom sides in their own mini league to avoid relegation and the requirement to be safe is becoming less and less.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 2, 2019)

Hang on five mins, the Balon Dor winner has just gone to VAR.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 2, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well no surprise Messi wins - disappointing but I guess no one will be surprised, im more surprised that Ronaldo didn’t come second. 

It’s a shame that who does the voting now can’t see past Messi - yes he scored lots of goals in La Liga but when the big game arrived he was missing
		
Click to expand...

Not sure I get the dig about Ronaldo tbh. The two of the, have clearly been the best two players in the world for a decade. 

Whilst I agree either Messi OR VVD were worthy this year I find it a tad extreme to put Barca’s exit at the feet of Messi considering the way he tore you a new one in the first leg.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Not sure I get the dig about Ronaldo tbh. The two of the, have clearly been the best two players in the world for a decade.
		
Click to expand...

Dig ? Why is it a dig 




			Whilst I agree either Messi OR VVD were worthy this year I find it a tad extreme to put Barca’s exit at the feet of Messi considering the way he tore you a new one in the first leg.
		
Click to expand...

Who put Barce’s “exit at the feet of Messi” ?

What someone does in the first leg of a two legged tie is irrelevant if the job isn’t completed - Messi did nothing in the second leg when it mattered along with his teammates 

Ronaldo has a great year won the title with his club in a new league and also helped his country win the Euro Nations thing

Messi is a great player - maybe the best ever but for me last season VVD stood out above them but because he isn’t scoring the goals was probably never going to win.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 2, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Dig ? Why is it a dig
		
Click to expand...

It read to me like you were being sarcastic, as opposed to what you obviously meant having read your response since. 



Liverpoolphil said:



			Who put Barce’s “exit at the feet of Messi” ?

What someone does in the first leg of a two legged tie is irrelevant if the job isn’t completed - Messi did nothing in the second leg when it mattered along with his teammates 

Ronaldo has a great year won the title with his club in a new league and also helped his country win the Euro Nations thing

Messi is a great player - maybe the best ever but for me last season VVD stood out above them but because he isn’t scoring the goals was probably never going to win.
		
Click to expand...

You’ve put the blame at his feet. Now you’ve included his team mates if anything that surely takes some blame off Messi? The semi was an epic result by you guys, no doubt. But it’s a fairytale result, doesn’t mean anything imo in regards to the quality of Messi imo

Imo they both won 1 tie each. If you had only won 3 nil I’d not have thought any less of VVD, equally, if Barça had won with Messi out injured, I would suddenly say he’s efforts in the first leg didn’t matter. 

Fully agree with your last line though. CBS rarely get a sniff. Tbh, it’s nice to see a player at least get a sniff.

I’d also question how Salah is higher than Mane, and by a bigger margin than Messi over VVD if the leaked image I saw are to be believed.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 2, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Dig ? Why is it a dig



Who put Barce’s “exit at the feet of Messi” ?

What someone does in the first leg of a two legged tie is irrelevant if the job isn’t completed - Messi did nothing in the second leg when it mattered along with his teammates

Ronaldo has a great year won the title with his club in a new league and also helped his country win the Euro Nations thing

Messi is a great player - maybe the best ever but for me last season VVD stood out above them but because he isn’t scoring the goals was probably never going to win.
		
Click to expand...

Completely agree .
Usually the top goal scorer gets a golden boot or something .
This is supposed to be the best footballer and nothing to do with goals scored.
So if VVD didn’t win it means most footballers have no chance unless you are a striker.
That’s poor imo.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 2, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Completely agree .
Usually the top goal scorer gets a golden boot or something .
This is supposed to be the best footballer and nothing to do with goals scored.
So if VVD didn’t win it means most footballers have no chance unless you are a striker.
That’s poor imo.
		
Click to expand...

Luka Modric won it and scored less goals than VVD that year.... So its not always about goals.

That being said, if a striker is in contention then goals obv matter. Ronaldo has had his worst goals return in a decade and has dropped. By the same token for a keeper or defender. Clean sheets woukd be relevant.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 2, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Not at all.

Most people consider them two the stand out Players. Then you need reasons to separate them.

For all the talk of the pl being tougher. For the last 2 years city have been 20 points plus ahead of third. Having no real competition in17/*8 and one team as comp last year. Is that any different to La Liga. Barcelona still have to finish ahead of arguably the biggest team in the world if they want to win the title.
		
Click to expand...

Barcelona have had very little competition RM are not what they used to be.
But money talks in football it’s a very corrupt game at the top.
Messi is a great player but the best this year not imo.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 2, 2019)

I can't remember who said it but someone on here said VVD was overrated last season 😂


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 2, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Luka Modric won it and scored less goals than VVD that year.... So its not always about goals.

That being said, if a striker is in contention then goals obv matter. Ronaldo has had his worst goals return in a decade and has dropped. By the same token for a keeper or defender. Clean sheets woukd be relevant.
		
Click to expand...

Who was he playing for though.?
It’s like players getting in the England squad over the years ,they were overlooked unless they played for a big club.
But at least that’s changing.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 2, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Barcelona have had very little competition RM are not what they used to be.
*But money talks in football it’s a very corrupt game at the top.*
Messi is a great player but the best this year not imo.
		
Click to expand...

I can kinda agree with the other two points. But who exactly gains from Messi being the winner. 

Russia and Qatar getting World cups, Italian teams bribing refs. I can see the clear advantage. 

But I don't see Barca or Messi earning more simply because he now has 6 awards.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 2, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I can remember who said it but someone on here said VVD was overrated last season 😂
		
Click to expand...

The guy making the messi decision.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 2, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I can kinda agree with the other two points. But who exactly gains from Messi being the winner.

Russia and Qatar getting World cups, Italian teams bribing refs. I can see the clear advantage.

But I don't see Barca or Messi earning more simply because he now has 6 awards.
		
Click to expand...

Who knows what goes on with those envelopes and why.
He should have missed the whole season and been playing for a prison team for tax fraud.
What message does that give out to all the youngsters that wear his shirt.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 2, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			The guy making the messi decision.
		
Click to expand...

Haha not quite. Just found it and the poster never said he was overrated, just had a snidey dig at him.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 2, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Who knows what goes on with those envelopes and why.
He should have missed the whole season and been playing for a prison team for tax fraud.
What message does that give out to all the youngsters that wear his shirt.
		
Click to expand...

Fraud doesn’t come with a prison sentence in Spain.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 2, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			VVD is an absolute joy to watch live,


VVD is an absolute joy to watch live, its effortless at times and theres no doubting his ability or his contribution to our team in the last 18 months. CB's dont get you on the edge of your seat like Suarez,Messi, Mane and Hendo do.

Midfielders and strikers are the bread and butter, keepers and defenders are there to make up the numbers ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

But it's for best player not necessarily the most exciting player.

If TAA set up 30 goals and scored 10, wouldnt that go some way to winning it for a full back?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 2, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Fully agree overall that he and Alison have made massive improvements defensively. Which clearly helped in regards to your massive league improvement.

But if weâ€™re using the CL as the overriding factor, deciding thatâ€™s more important than a league win for Messi. I genuinely donâ€™t think it was your improved defence that won it. You may correct me here, but I donâ€™t recall any resolute defensive games in the knockouts where you held on for a vital clean sheet. You either got hammered or hammered a team lol

Other than the final which was a non event.

Unfortunately defenders just donâ€™t win these awards. I can only recall Cannavaro and thatâ€™s was after his country won the World Cup.
		
Click to expand...

Barcelona 4-0 - keeping the Ballon d'or winner, Suarez, Coutinho et al quiet?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 2, 2019)

Messi is a great player, lets face it, as is Ronaldo, but it does my head in that for 30-40 years the ballon D'or has mainly gone to Spanish and Italian based players, virtually by default.

A bit like players who play brilliantly for "smaller" clubs, but as soon as they get to OT, Anfield, Etihad etc suddenly find themselves in the England team/squad more regularly.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 2, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			But it's for best player not necessarily the most exciting player.

*If TAA set up 30 goals and scored 10, wouldnt that go some way to winning it for a full back?*

Click to expand...

The most exciting players tend to be  the best players.

*No because that doesnt qualify as being the best player but it would go some way him having a fantastic season. *


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 2, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The most exciting players tend to be  the best players.

*No because that doesnt qualify as being the best player but it would go some way him having a fantastic season. *

Click to expand...

Thats how you may see it as a fleet-footed striker, but I'm firmly in the centre halves union.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 2, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Barcelona 4-0 - keeping the Ballon d'or winner, Suarez, Coutinho et al quiet?
		
Click to expand...

I can’t recall that game being a backs to the wall job. Don’t get me wrong, keeping them quiet isn’t an easy task. Maybe his style and elegance costs him. I always thought Terry got more plaudits but Ferdinand was the better defender but less talked about simply because Terry was putting in big tackles where as Rio never needed to.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 2, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I can’t recall that game being a backs to the wall job. Don’t get me wrong, keeping them quiet isn’t an easy task. Maybe his style and elegance costs him. I always thought Terry got more plaudits but Ferdinand was the better defender but less talked about simply because Terry was putting in big tackles where as Rio never needed to.
		
Click to expand...

They still gave us some problems at Anfield.

The first leg was a weird one. Barca in the end could have got another in the last minute, but overall a draw wouldnt have been an unjust result, as we played brilliantly at times and from memory hit the bar, post etc and one of their goals had a large slice of luck against it. I think we not only had more possession there, but it was also one of the most impressive performances I had seen in the Nou camp from an away side, it's just that the goals for/against column didnt reflect it.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 2, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Fraud doesn’t come with a prison sentence in Spain.
		
Click to expand...

He got a 21 month prison sentence but was allowed by the appeals system to buy his way out of jail with a quarter of a million Euro fine.
What a role model for all those young footballers.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 2, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			They still gave us some problems at Anfield.

The first leg was a weird one. Barca in the end could have got another in the last minute, but overall a draw wouldnt have been an unjust result, as we played brilliantly at times and from memory hit the bar, post etc and one of their goals had a large slice of luck against it. I think we not only had more possession there, but it was also one of the most impressive performances I had seen in the Nou camp from an away side, it's just that the goals for/against column didnt reflect it.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t think the goals against was to unfair. The were all decent goals if I recall, so wouldn’t use that game as an example of your improvement with vvd. I would say you should have got at least a draw though. Albeit 4-4!

I watched it whilst in Portugal and we all thought it was the best away performance we’d seen at Barca. Now doubt the team that went through deserved too.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 2, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			He got a 21 month prison sentence but was allowed by the appeals system to buy his way out of jail with a quarter of a million Euro fine.
What a role model for all those young footballers.
		
Click to expand...

Which is in the Spain legal system. 

I’m not saying fraud is right, but he didn’t get some lucky escape.

That being said I don’t expect sport stars to be role models. Hamilton lives in Monaco to avoid tax, carra spat at someone, Merson had a drug problem and Gazza a drink one I’ve yet loads of people still idolise them. Christ look at Maradona arguably the greatest of all time. One of his most iconic celebrations shows him clearly off his face!!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 3, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Which is in the Spain legal system.

I’m not saying fraud is right, but he didn’t get some lucky escape.

That being said I don’t expect sport stars to be role models. Hamilton lives in Monaco to avoid tax, carra spat at someone, Merson had a drug problem and Gazza a drink one I’ve yet loads of people still idolise them. Christ look at Maradona arguably the greatest of all time. One of his most iconic celebrations shows him clearly off his face!!
		
Click to expand...

Ok that’s ok then.
Yes he did , anyone else that didn’t have the odd 250.000 Euro hanging around would be in jail.!
.so did Ronaldo for a very similar offence ,he only got a 23 month jail sentence but bought his way out on appeal with a spare 19 million Euros.
Both have criminal records.
Gives our youngsters something to aspire to.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Ok that’s ok then.
Yes he did , anyone else that didn’t have the odd 250.000 Euro hanging around would be in jail.!
.so did Ronaldo for a very similar offence ,he only got a 23 month jail sentence but bought his way out on appeal with a spare 19 million Euros.
Both have criminal records.
Gives our youngsters something to aspire to.
		
Click to expand...

The fines that keep people put of jail are proportionate to the crime. So I'd imagine anyone who dodged the amount of tax that messi did would obviously have the financial capital to pay the fine. 

It's not 250000 euro if you've lied about 10k...

But do you really think kids when watching the champions league either know or care about it? 
Anyways this has gone massively off track, becuase a players character certainly has zero relevance when wining ab award based on their ability.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 3, 2019)

Great article in The Times today by Henry Winter about how he voted for VVD and how the strikers seem to always get the glory. Well worth checking out


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 3, 2019)

Does anyone have a link for a petition for VVD not winning it? 
Cheers


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 3, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			The fines that keep people put of jail are proportionate to the crime. So I'd imagine anyone who dodged the amount of tax that messi did would obviously have the financial capital to pay the fine.

It's not 250000 euro if you've lied about 10k...

But do you really think kids when watching the champions league either know or care about it?
Anyways this has gone massively off track, becuase a players character certainly has zero relevance when wining ab award based on their ability.
		
Click to expand...

There lies the problem for me any other walk of life a convicted criminal would not be getting the top awards in their jobs, if they still had a job.
But football that’s ok.
We will just have to differ.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			There lies the problem for me any other walk of life a convicted criminal would not be getting the top awards in their jobs, if they still had a job.
But football that’s ok.
We will just have to differ.
		
Click to expand...

Don’t remember you being this vocal when Firminho got his criminal conviction or are there varying degrees of criminal convictions?


----------



## Piece (Dec 3, 2019)

4LEX said:



			Messi deserved the WPOTY award. He managed 51 goals in 50 games for Barcelona last season and he was playing as a playmaker, not as pure striker. He topped the assist chart in La Liga, created more clear chances, scored more doubles, more hatricks and hit the woodwork 10 times too. It might be boring for some to see the same person win it so often but you can't debate on any serious basis.

He carried a mediocre Barcelona side to the title and CL semi final, where they should've gone through. People forget they missed about 3/4 clear chances in the first half at Anfield. Taking nothing away from Liverpool who were unlucky in the first leg and deserved to go through for their second half performance at Anfield. But he was that close to a league and CL double and carried the entire side. This season he's doing the same - when he missed the start of the season they were losing/drawing to nomarks. With him they'll go close to a double or treble. He's THAT good.

VVD had a very good season but he's been off the pace since August and Liverpool can't keep clean sheets even against relegation fodder. He's the best defender in the world but absolutely no way he deserved this award. Liverpool conceded 13 goals in 13 games in Europe which isn't exactly great. If they'd won the CL based on clean sheets and narrow wins you'd be able to make a bigger case but it was the attack that won it for them.

Anyway, let's all be thankful Messi has more of these than Ronaldo now 

Click to expand...

With all due respect honourable gentleman, that was written from a Messi fan-boy point of view. 

Perhaps VVD should take a leaf out of Messi's book and call France Football "corrupt" and the award "fixed, favouring Messi to win". 

Seriously though, when you look at the voting details, it is comical in areas and you do see why Messi and Ronaldo win all the time. TTA is the best footballer in world say Sri Lanka. Bhutan only voted for Liverpool players. . Togo selected Hugo Lloris at third best.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 3, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Don’t remember you being this vocal when Firminho got his criminal conviction or are there varying degrees of criminal convictions?

Click to expand...

Well I wouldn’t put pedos or murderers in with tax fraud.

I am not one of Firminos biggest fans.. as I have stated many times.
But he hasn’t won the biggest accolade.
Messi did when he should have been behind bars imo.


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 3, 2019)

Piece said:



			With all due respect honourable gentleman, that was written from a Messi fan-boy point of view. 

Perhaps VVD should take a leaf out of Messi's book and call France Football "corrupt" and the award "fixed, favouring Messi to win". 

Seriously though, when you look at the voting details, it is comical in areas and you do see why Messi and Ronaldo win all the time. TTA is the best footballer in world say Sri Lanka. Bhutan only voted for Liverpool players. . Togo selected Hugo Lloris at third best.
		
Click to expand...

I deleted it by mistake when trying to edit a typo - thanks for quoting it!

But honestly I just say it as I see it - no bias at all. As for voting you'll always the odd bizarre and biased picks but overall the picture will be a fair reflection.

Messi was different level last season. Compare VVD to Vidic in 08/09. Vidic kept more more clean sheets, conceded less goals, made more tackles, won more headers and won the Premiership, League Cup and reached a CL final having won it the year before (plus the Premiership again). He had a better season than VVD last season but he wasn't in the Top 3.

Messi had a vastly better season and carried a lesser side with a inferior manager to more silverware......totally deserved.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well I wouldn’t put pedos or murderers in with tax fraud.

I am not one of Firminos biggest fans.. as I have stated many times.
But he hasn’t won the biggest accolade.
Messi did when he should have been behind bars imo.
		
Click to expand...

Behind bars! Messi didn’t kill anyone, Firminho had more chance of that drink driving, do you think both should of lost their job?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 3, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Behind bars! Messi didn’t kill anyone, Firminho had more chance of that drink driving, do you think both should of lost their job?
		
Click to expand...

No I don’t we all make mistakes !
But just don’t give tax fraudsters top honours.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



*No I don’t we all make mistakes !*
But just don’t give tax fraudsters top honours.
		
Click to expand...




clubchamp98 said:



			Well I wouldn’t put pedos or murderers in with tax fraud.

I am not one of Firminos biggest fans.. as I have stated many times.
But he hasn’t won the biggest accolade.
*Messi did when he should have been behind bars* imo.
		
Click to expand...

Make your mind up.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			No I don’t we all make mistakes !
But just don’t give tax fraudsters top honours.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification, some mistakes are more of a mistake than other mistakes. Got it.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 3, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Make your mind up.
		
Click to expand...

Don’t do that he asked a specific question and you know it.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 3, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Thanks for the clarification, some mistakes are more of a mistake than other mistakes. Got it.

Click to expand...

Well Prince Andrew is finding that out now.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			No I don’t we all make mistakes !
But just don’t give tax fraudsters top honours.
		
Click to expand...

jeez chill out,it’s just a football award 😂


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Don’t do that he asked a specific question and you know it.
		
Click to expand...

He asked if both should have lost their jobs. 

You said no. 

But you’d already claimed Messi should have been behind bars. 

So best case you’ve realised you went ott in your condemnation of Messi simply because VvD didn’t get the award you wanted. 
Worse case you think fraud is worse than drink driving. Because that’s the only logical way to interpret you saying they both didn’t deserve to be in jail.

For the record, I dont think you meant it like that. Just got carried away about Messi 👍


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 3, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			He asked if both should have lost their jobs.

You said no.

But you’d already claimed Messi should have been behind bars.

So best case you’ve realised you went ott in your condemnation of Messi simply because VvD didn’t get the award you wanted.
Worse case you think fraud is worse than drink driving. Because that’s the only logical way to interpret you saying they both didn’t deserve to be in jail.

For the record, I dont think you meant it like that. Just got carried away about Messi 👍
		
Click to expand...

I don’t give a shit about VVD I just don’t like TAX DODGERS.

Or people who can buy their way out of a jail sentence.
I never brought Firmino into it so how can you say that ,it’s impossible to compare the two.
Paul’s right Firmino could have killed someone so is potentially the graver crime.
Messi could have served his time and kept his job if he had he would not have won that’s all.
Your logic needs work .


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 3, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I don’t give a shit about VVD I just don’t like TAX DODGERS.

Or people who can buy their way out of a jail sentence.
I never brought Firmino into it so how can you say that ,it’s impossible to compare the two.
Paul’s right Firmino could have killed someone so is potentially the graver crime.
Messi could have served his time and kept his job if he had he would not have won that’s all.
Your logic needs work .
		
Click to expand...

Except that jail sentences under 24 months don’t require jail time if you pay a relevant fine. Relevant being the key word. Messi gets 200k or whatever it was. Tim the builder might get 1k. 

So Messi was NEVER going to be in jail. He didn’t get special treatment. He simply followed the process required in Spain. 

But this has gone on long enough. So I’ll bail 😂😂 on the convo now.


----------



## Slime (Dec 3, 2019)

Give it a rest, guys, this is a PL thread. Start a Ballon d'Or one please.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 3, 2019)

Slime said:



			Give it a rest, guys, this is a PL thread. Start a Ballon d'Or one please.
		
Click to expand...

Bit late it’s over.


----------



## Swingalot (Dec 3, 2019)

Great win tonight. We had a makeshift defence out before the red card and then an early injury to Pva, but still got the win. Great spirit and nice to have Selhurst rocking under the lights and not a half and half scarf or football tourist to be seen! 

Eddie Howe for Arsenal? Most overrated manager in the league. £20+ for solanki? Wow!


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 3, 2019)

Swingalot said:



			Great win tonight. We had a makeshift defence out before the red card and then an early injury to Pva, but still got the win. Great spirit and nice to have Selhurst rocking under the lights and not a half and half scarf or football tourist to be seen!

*Eddie Howe for Arsenal? *Most overrated manager in the league. £20+ for solanki? Wow!
		
Click to expand...

Perfect fit for Everton 😉

Harsh sending off imo but very good battling performance with 10men.


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 3, 2019)

Anyone looking forward to Mourinho turning over Man Utd tomorrow?

Ole looks more gormless as the weeks roll on. Was it Slime who thought he was something special?! Someone said he got sacked by Cardiff for having a 30% win ratio, yet since he's been made Man Utd manager permantley his win ratio is 24%   Mourinho had 58% and even Moyes had something in the 40% range.

He's failed to beat West Ham, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Villa, Sheffield Utd and Palace this season.

I'll have the popcorn and crisps out tomorow. Amazon Prime and car crash time


----------



## Swingalot (Dec 3, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Perfect fit for Everton 😉

Harsh sending off imo but very good battling performance with 10men.
		
Click to expand...

Looked harsh, hope we get it overturned. 

Really enjoyed tonight, a proper team performance. Nice to see players giving 100% to a man. 

5th in the league......nosebleed time!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 4, 2019)

Swingalot said:



			Looked harsh, hope we get it overturned.

Really enjoyed tonight, a proper team performance. Nice to see players giving 100% to a man.

5th in the league......nosebleed time!
		
Click to expand...

Great result playing with 10 for so long. Selhurst under lights is a great atmosphere


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 4, 2019)

4LEX said:



			Anyone looking forward to Mourinho turning over Man Utd tomorrow?

Ole looks more gormless as the weeks roll on. Was it Slime who thought he was something special?! Someone said he got sacked by Cardiff for having a 30% win ratio, yet since he's been made Man Utd manager permantley his win ratio is 24%   Mourinho had 58% and even Moyes had something in the 40% range.

He's failed to beat West Ham, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Villa, Sheffield Utd and Palace this season.

I'll have the popcorn and crisps out tomorow. Amazon Prime and car crash time 

Click to expand...

I'm a bit gutted I've got work Christmas drinks tonight so won't be able to watch it. Should be a decent game.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 4, 2019)

Finding it an oddish season. Spurs get rid of Poch very early. The Arse dump theres very early, yet Olly at Utd  who is the worst of the three is still there. 🤔


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 4, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Finding it an oddish season. Spurs get rid of Poch very early. The Arse dump theres very early, yet Olly at Utd  who is the worst of the three is still there. 🤔
		
Click to expand...

Emery was not dumped anywhere near early enough. Should have gone when Arsenal melted at the end of last season in my view.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 4, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Emery was not dumped anywhere near early enough. Should have gone when Arsenal melted at the end of last season in my view.
		
Click to expand...

That's a bit of hindsight though. To finish 5th with that squad only 2 points off third in his first season was hardly a sackable offence. I think that earned him the opportunity to build on it, but instead they declined from there hence him losing his job now.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			That's a bit of hindsight though. To finish 5th with that squad only 2 points off third in his first season was hardly a sackable offence. I think that earned him the opportunity to build on it, but instead they declined from there hence him losing his job now.
		
Click to expand...

If you look at his last 7 games last season, they were all very winnable. That was the best ryn in you could have asked for. With 7 games to go, he was 3rd in the table, with CL in his control. The melt down in the last 7 games was inexcusable, what ever squad he had. They were good enough to be 3rd with 7 to go. No hind sight, he was out of his depth at that time. It was obvious.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 4, 2019)

Swingalot said:



			Looked harsh, hope we get it overturned.

Really enjoyed tonight, a proper team performance. Nice to see players giving 100% to a man.

5th in the league......nosebleed time!
		
Click to expand...

Team of the 2020's?


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 4, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			If you look at his last 7 games last season, they were all very winnable. That was the best ryn in you could have asked for. With 7 games to go, he was 3rd in the table, with CL in his control. The melt down in the last 7 games was inexcusable, what ever squad he had. They were good enough to be 3rd with 7 to go. No hind sight, he was out of his depth at that time. It was obvious.
		
Click to expand...

I accept that the malaise began then, I just think it would have been harsh to sack after one full season in which he only just missed out on Champs League that's all. Chelsea and Spurs were both poor as well to be fair, it was a question of who could limp, nay, drag their carcass over the line. Any of the three clubs could have been the one to miss out.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 4, 2019)

A little teaser for you Everton and Liverpool fans ahead of the match tonight

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50634202


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			That's a bit of hindsight though. To finish 5th with that squad only 2 points off third in his first season was hardly a sackable offence. I think that earned him the opportunity to build on it, but instead they declined from there hence him losing his job now.
		
Click to expand...

Emery was two wins from finishing 4th and winning the Europa League yet fans wanted him sacked! You couldn't make it up.

Unfortunately for Arsenal fans you're a 5th-8th quality side and that's where you'll finish unless theres major changes. Emery overachieved for the first two thirds of the season with that squad. In the end quality told. He did enough in his first season to be backed in the squad overhaul, IMO.

He wanted Zaha and he got a totally unproven winger on installments as they couldn't afford Zaha. 
He wanted Ozil out as he's a nothing player and a bad influence on the work ethic he was trying to install. Nothing happened and Ozil remained using every excuse to avoid playing. When he does he goes through the motions.
He wanted a top centre back, instead he got a cut price Luiz because they couldn't afford anyone else.

Emery wasn't the greatest manager and I felt Rodgers at the time would've been a better fit but he didn't fail, the club failed him. Arsenal have a culture of weakness and complacency left by Wenger. They scored an equaliser at Norwich and celebrated like they'd won 4-0 at Man City......small time.

If they had any ambition they'd snap up Simone (who has reached the end of his cycle in Spain) or buy Rodgers out and back them.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2019)

Some people have too much time

Google "manchester united"

When the menu comes up

Click players..

Look at Maguire and Jones


----------



## Slime (Dec 4, 2019)

4LEX said:



			Anyone looking forward to Mourinho turning over Man Utd tomorrow?

Ole looks more gormless as the weeks roll on. *Was it Slime who thought he was something special?!* Someone said he got sacked by Cardiff for having a 30% win ratio, yet since he's been made Man Utd manager permantley his win ratio is 24%   Mourinho had 58% and even Moyes had something in the 40% range.

He's failed to beat West Ham, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Villa, Sheffield Utd and Palace this season.

I'll have the popcorn and crisps out tomorow. Amazon Prime and car crash time 

Click to expand...

I can't recall thinking he was special, a United legend without doubt, but as a manager he was largely unproven.
He's largely hamstrung by those above him.




Tashyboy said:



			Finding it an oddish season. Spurs get rid of Poch very early. The Arse dump theres very early, yet* Olly at Utd  who is the worst of the three is still there. *🤔
		
Click to expand...

Poch, I think he was sacked because of something going on in the background as much as because of poor results.
Emery, he should have gone well before he did.
Ole, I think he'll be gone by this time next week. Good luck to any poor bugger who takes over!
Unfortunately United have become a money club with Woodward only needing to secure good financials rather than good results.
They'll sack Ole because they won't sack themselves.
I feel a bit sorry for Ole because, as well as having to work with Woodward and the Glazers, he's also been hampered by very inopportune injuries.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			A little teaser for you Everton and Liverpool fans ahead of the match tonight

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50634202

Click to expand...

Why did you have to put that link up? The thought of Hodgson alone gives me heart palpitations, never mind in a Liverpool jacket and tie 😩😩


----------



## Slime (Dec 4, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-en...first-film-of-merseyside-derby-proves-popular


Is that any better?


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 4, 2019)

Slime said:



			I can't recall thinking he was special, a United legend without doubt, but as a manager he was largely unproven.
He's largely hamstrung by those above him.




I feel a bit sorry for Ole because, as well as having to work with Woodward and the Glazers, he's also been hampered by very inopportune injuries.
		
Click to expand...

He actually plays into the owners and Woodward's hands because he's nothing more than a goafer for them. Smile and talk about a long term plan......a plan that's overseen by someone that can't sign players and a manager that can't coach them 

Injuries are only exposing the bones because Ole let Sanchez, Lukaku, Herrara and Fellaini go without a single replacement. Even with injuries he's failed to beat Bournemouth, Aston Villa, Palace, Sheffield United, West Ham and Newcastle - losing to most of them. Even with injuries Man Utd have vastly better squads. It's excuses.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 4, 2019)

4LEX said:



			He actually plays into the owners and Woodward's hands because he's nothing more than a goafer for them. Smile and talk about a long term plan......a plan that's overseen by someone that can't sign players and a manager that can't coach them 

Injuries are only exposing the bones because Ole let Sanchez, Lukaku, Herrara and Fellaini go without a single replacement. Even with injuries he's failed to beat Bournemouth, Aston Villa, Palace, Sheffield United, West Ham and Newcastle - losing to most of them. Even with injuries Man Utd have vastly better squads. It's excuses.
		
Click to expand...

I know I mentioned Ollie, but in all honesty I thought he would be the first to go. In all honesty I think he is Rammel. But aside from Poch I don't know who could be the saviour. I have a feeling that if Poch had lost the spuds Dressing room, how could he win over the Utd one.


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2019)

interesting looking Liverpool XI for the derby game


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2019)

always great knowing united have scored when the balls in the centre circle lol


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 4, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Why did you have to put that link up? The thought of Hodgson alone gives me heart palpitations, never mind in a Liverpool jacket and tie 😩😩
		
Click to expand...

But could you name the sides?


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2019)

Alli got compromising pics of VAR i assume lol, seems totally immune! Strange decision at Leicester too on all accounts


----------



## Dando (Dec 4, 2019)

Great pass from mane!


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2019)

Dando said:



			Great pass from mane!
		
Click to expand...

wheres Pickford going?


----------



## Dando (Dec 4, 2019)

fundy said:



			wheres Pickford going?
		
Click to expand...

Job centre with the manager?


----------



## Slime (Dec 4, 2019)

4LEX said:



			He actually plays into the owners and Woodward's hands because he's nothing more than a goafer for them. Smile and talk about a long term plan......a plan that's overseen by someone that can't sign players and a manager that can't coach them 

Injuries are only exposing the bones because Ole let Sanchez, Lukaku, Herrara and Fellaini go without a single replacement. Even with injuries he's failed to beat Bournemouth, Aston Villa, Palace, Sheffield United, West Ham and Newcastle - losing to most of them. Even with injuries Man Utd have vastly better squads. It's excuses.
		
Click to expand...

United have no midfield.
Pogba's been out since September and only turns up when he's in the mood.
Apart from him we have kids or snails.
Woodward is in charge of transfers and seems to only have the ability to work on one deal at a time.
He'll then try and chip a few £million off which just prolongs the process for a few more weeks.
Ole doesn't stand a chance in the short term and probably won't be given a chance long term.


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2019)

Dando said:



			Job centre with the manager?
		
Click to expand...

can pop down at half time cant they lol


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 4, 2019)

Some very cheap shots from the liverpool full backs.


----------



## Cherry13 (Dec 4, 2019)

Very poor five minutes from the officials at Liverpool. TAA lucky and VVD lucky.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 4, 2019)

Brilliant assist for the worlds best cb


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Some very cheap shots from the liverpool full backs.
		
Click to expand...

And of course to ensure there is balance some from people in blue as well 🙄


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 4, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And of course to ensure there is balance some from people in blue as well 🙄
		
Click to expand...

Richarlison's was just a tickle 😁


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2019)

What a mental game 😂 6 goals 

have to say Ally McCoist has been excellent as a co commentator


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 4, 2019)

@davemc1  what times motd on bro


----------



## Fish (Dec 4, 2019)

When Arsenal & Sheff Utd win tomorrow, Spurs go down to 10th, #JustSaying 😜


----------



## fundy (Dec 4, 2019)

Fish said:



			When Arsenal & Sheff Utd win tomorrow, Spurs go down to 10th, #JustSaying 😜
		
Click to expand...


glad to know youre confident for us Fishy


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2019)

Don’t worry guys - he still has the shirt


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2019)

Utterly, utterly embarrassing, given a total footballing lesson, how to pass, how to create space, how to close down, tackle back, work as a team etc etc, 8 or 9 nil would of been more of a true reflection.
Outplayed in every single aspect.


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 4, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



@davemc1  what times motd on bro 

Click to expand...

5 to I think bro 

🤦


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			5 to I think bro

🤦
		
Click to expand...

You are useless at this game 5 to 2. 🤦‍♂️


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 4, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			You are useless at this game 5 to 2. 🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

as useless as the Ev...


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			as useless as the Ev...
		
Click to expand...

Not that bad mate, not a chance!


----------



## GG26 (Dec 4, 2019)

Probably LCFC’s worst performance of the season, players looked a little jaded.  Still kept the run going, keeping a 12 point gap to 5th.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 4, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			5 to I think bro

🤦
		
Click to expand...

5 past Pickford actually.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 4, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



@davemc1  what times motd on bro 

Click to expand...

They may not have it on in the bingo he goes to.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 4, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Utterly, utterly embarrassing, given a total footballing lesson, how to pass, how to create space, how to close down, tackle back, work as a team etc etc, 8 or 9 nil would of been more of a true reflection.
Outplayed in every single aspect.
		
Click to expand...

TBF that could have been a 9-7 game and a lot closer if decisions hadn't gone in our favour.

Even at the match (and corroborated on MOTD) I thought VVD fouled Calvert-Lewin, and for one of our other goals thought VVD pushed Richarlison in the box on the lead up, although Richarlison was already halfway down. If Moise Keen would have scored at 4-3 would also have been closer.

We could have had a few more in the end, but at certain points tonight, if decisions would have gone against us you could have been drawing or even closer.

But *FOR MANE BEING TOO HONEST*, we could have had a penalty also. It just shows that we cant trust refs to give pens unless you go down.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 4, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			TBF that could have been a 9-7 game and a lot closer if decisions hadn't gone in our favour.

Even at the match (and corroborated on MOTD) I thought VVD fouled Calvert-Lewin, and for one of our other goals thought VVD pushed Richarlison in the box on the lead up, although Richarlison was already halfway down. If Moise Keen would have scored at 4-3 would also have been closer.

We could have had a few more in the end, but at certain points tonight, if decisions would have gone against us you could have been drawing or even closer.

But *FOR MANE BEING TOO HONEST*, we could have had a penalty also. It just shows that we cant trust refs to give pens unless you go down. 

Click to expand...

We didn’t deserve it though Pete, your football, especially in the 1st half, was a different level, the 2nd half you didn’t really try, controlled dominant football.
Sometimes you have to put rivalry aside and just accept how completely lacking in so many ways we were to yous, I was there the last time you hit us for 5 when Rush got 4 and I know it’ll sound daft, but I genuinely don’t think I’ve seen such a gulf in class and ability between the 2 sides as I did tonight.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			We didn’t deserve it though Pete, your football, especially in the 1st half, was a different level, the 2nd half you didn’t really try, controlled dominant football.
Sometimes you have to put rivalry aside and just accept how completely lacking in so many ways we were to yous, I was there the last time you hit us for 5 when Rush got 4 and I know it’ll sound daft, but I genuinely don’t think I’ve seen such a gulf in class and ability between the 2 sides as I did tonight.
		
Click to expand...

Tell my nails that.

I'll be honest if you would have had them 2 penalties it could have been a totally different game, one was stonewall, the other a slightly debatable one but it also would have stopped our 3rd counting so was a massive decision.

That 5-0 with Rush scoring 4 was my first ever derby.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Tell my nails that.

I'll be honest if you would have had them 2 penalties it could have been a totally different game, one was stonewall, the other a slightly debatable one but it also would have stopped our 3rd counting so was a massive decision.

That 5-0 with Rush scoring 4 was my first ever derby. 

Click to expand...

Adrian would’ve saved both of them anyway......

Everton are lacking in real quality, massive job for whoever is daft enough to take it.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 5, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Tell my nails that.

I'll be honest if you would have had them 2 penalties it could have been a totally different game, one was stonewall, the other a slightly debatable one but it also would have stopped our 3rd counting so was a massive decision.

That 5-0 with Rush scoring 4 was my first ever derby. 

Click to expand...

Think the VVD one was a pen.
There was to much pushing and pulling in the boxes at corners and free kicks so the ref usually gives nothing.
Some quite nasty stuff going on TAA could have seen red twice.
Absolute brilliant going forward but we have issues at the back.
Origi and Mane were fantastic tonight.

The high line for free kicks is causing us problems imo, it’s very hard to head a ball any distance while backpedaling.
Offside isn’t given now as the only one who needs to be onside is the man receiving the ball.
Decisions went our way ,but we deserved to win.

Made me laugh when Mane runs past Mike Dean for his goal Dean looked like he was running in treacle the speed Mane was going.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Think the VVD one was a pen.
There was to much pushing and pulling in the boxes at corners and free kicks so the ref usually gives nothing.
Some quite nasty stuff going on TAA could have seen red twice.
Absolute brilliant going forward but we have issues at the back.
Origi and Mane were fantastic tonight.

The high line for free kicks is causing us problems imo, it’s very hard to head a ball any distance while backpedaling.
Offside isn’t given now as the only one who needs to be onside is the man receiving the ball.
Decisions went our way ,but we deserved to win.

Made me laugh when Mane runs past Mike Dean for his goal Dean looked like he was running in treacle the speed Mane was going.
		
Click to expand...

Lovren at fault for both goals and Adrian should’ve done better for the 1st.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Lovren at fault for both goals and Adrian should’ve done better for the 1st.
		
Click to expand...

The marking from CBs wasn’t great today especially the second .
The first was a few lucky bounces but thought Keane finished it really well for a defender.
Some strikers should watch it .

I just think the high line has us backpedaling to much.
And if they get behind us the marking just goes out the window.
We have been done by a few long balls over the top last few games, 

But if we score more than them that will do.
Wonder if Salah will get back in the team?
Our bench was awesome today as well.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 5, 2019)

So clear that Everton were outclassed in all areas. Silva going and apparently Moyes lined up. Not sure that's the answer personally. Can't see bridging the gap even if Liverpool slip up and time the two sides meet in April I can't see the outcome affecting the title race


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			The marking from CBs wasn’t great today especially the second .
*The first was a few lucky bounces but thought Keane finished it really well for a defender.*
Some strikers should watch it .

I just think the high line has us backpedaling to much.
And if they get behind us the marking just goes out the window.
We have been done by a few long balls over the top last few games,

But if we score more than them that will do.
Wonder if Salah will get back in the team?
Our bench was awesome today as well.
		
Click to expand...

Lovren went to ground too easy for the 1st and didnt know whether to head or kick the ball to stop the cross for the 2nd. 

Apart from those too silly errors he played well again, and has been excellent in recent weeks.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			So clear that Everton were outclassed in all areas. Silva going and *apparently Moyes lined up*. Not sure that's the answer personally. Can't see bridging the gap even if Liverpool slip up and time the two sides meet in April I can't see the outcome affecting the title race
		
Click to expand...

I hope so 🙏😁


----------



## Dan2501 (Dec 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Utterly, utterly embarrassing, given a total footballing lesson, how to pass, how to create space, how to close down, tackle back, work as a team etc etc, 8 or 9 nil would of been more of a true reflection.
Outplayed in every single aspect.
		
Click to expand...

Sums it up pretty well. Never seen a defence taken completely out of the game that many times in one game with long diagonal balls, embarrassing defending. Got a couple of goals but didn't deserve them, just rubbish defending from Liverpool. Awful performance from start to finish and completely outclassed. Has to be the end for Marco now, will be very disappointed if we don't ship him out. We need a new manager in for December so they can get familiar with the squad and work with Brands to identify where we need to improve.

Have heard Gallardo's name mentioned a few times which would be nice, certainly a better option than Moyes, don't think there are many who'd want him back. Gallardo is one of the most successful South American managers, the most successful in River Plates history, 10 trophies at River, 2 Copa Libertadores. Probably unlikely that we'll get him, but would be a very nice appointment if Marcel can work his magic.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I hope so 🙏😁
		
Click to expand...

What could possibly go wrong !!!! https://www.skysports.com/football/...n-doubt-with-david-moyes-favourite-to-step-in


----------



## Wolf (Dec 5, 2019)

See reports this morning suggesting Viera favourite for becoming next Arsenal Manager... please let this be wrong, legend as a player but not what we need as manager his only experience being keeping Nice firmly in the bottom have of French Ligue 1


----------



## Jensen (Dec 5, 2019)

Wolf said:



			See reports this morning suggesting Viera favourite for becoming next Arsenal Manager... please let this be wrong, legend as a player but not what we need as manager his only experience being keeping Nice firmly in the bottom have of French Ligue 1
		
Click to expand...

Great players rarely make good managers


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 5, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Sums it up pretty well. Never seen a defence taken completely out of the game that many times in one game with long diagonal balls, embarrassing defending. Got a couple of goals but didn't deserve them, just rubbish defending from Liverpool. Awful performance from start to finish and completely outclassed. Has to be the end for Marco now, will be very disappointed if we don't ship him out. We need a new manager in for December so they can get familiar with the squad and work with Brands to identify where we need to improve.

Have heard Gallardo's name mentioned a few times which would be nice, certainly a better option than Moyes, don't think there are many who'd want him back. Gallardo is one of the most successful South American managers, the most successful in River Plates history, 10 trophies at River, 2 Copa Libertadores. Probably unlikely that we'll get him, but would be a very nice appointment if Marcel can work his magic.
		
Click to expand...

What’s wrong with having Moyes back ? 

He has been your best manager in the last twenty years , he gave the club stability and reaching the expected level . You have tried the more flamboyant managers and have suffered - when Allardyce came in he was excellent for you , got the team to 8th in the league, that wasn’t good enough for fans - you demanded he leave and Silva to come in , 12 months later , Silva to go now and calls of “not Moyes”

Moyes and indeed Allardyce would be a good fit for Everton , would give the club stability , solid league position and something build on. 

Right now what is happening is a victim of the fans demands


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What’s wrong with having Moyes back ?

He has been your best manager in the last twenty years , he gave the club stability and reaching the expected level . You have tried the more flamboyant managers and have suffered - when Allardyce came in he was excellent for you , got the team to 8th in the league, that wasn’t good enough for fans - you demanded he leave and Silva to come in , 12 months later , Silva to go now and calls of “not Moyes”

Moyes and indeed Allardyce would be a good fit for Everton , would give the club stability , solid league position and something build on.

Right now what is happening is a victim of the fans demands
		
Click to expand...


Maybe a Moyes/Allardyce joint managership?

Behave, Everton fans have a right to not want Allardyce back. League position is important, but not totally at the expense of paying for a season ticket to watch dull, unattractive football week in, week out.

I'm sure Stoke fans would be split on having Tony Pulis back, for instance.


----------



## Dan2501 (Dec 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What’s wrong with having Moyes back ?

He has been your best manager in the last twenty years , he gave the club stability and reaching the expected level . You have tried the more flamboyant managers and have suffered - when Allardyce came in he was excellent for you , got the team to 8th in the league, that wasn’t good enough for fans - you demanded he leave and Silva to come in , 12 months later , Silva to go now and calls of “not Moyes”

Moyes and indeed Allardyce would be a good fit for Everton , would give the club stability , solid league position and something build on.

Right now what is happening is a victim of the fans demands
		
Click to expand...

Has going back to an old manager ever worked? Look what happened at Watford going back to Sanchez Flores. Moyes had a great time at Everton but hasn't exactly impressed since, I think going back to him would be a backwards step and would rather we move forward. Would rather him than Fat Sam though.

It's also easy for you to say they're a good fit, you don't have to watch the football every week.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What’s wrong with having Moyes back ?

He has been your best manager in the last twenty years , he gave the club stability and reaching the expected level . You have tried the more flamboyant managers and have suffered - when Allardyce came in he was excellent for you , got the team to 8th in the league, that wasn’t good enough for fans - you demanded he leave and Silva to come in , 12 months later , Silva to go now and calls of “not Moyes”

Moyes and indeed Allardyce would be a good fit for Everton , would give the club stability , solid league position and something build on.

Right now what is happening is a victim of the fans demands
		
Click to expand...

Silva finished in the same position as Allardyce and 5pts better off.

As others have said it’s not always just the position we finish in, there needs to be progression, the allardyce football was the worst I’ve seen from an Everton side since the 70’s.

We had a great finish to last season, Silva was allowed to spend (big) and look how we are doing. We haven’t moved forward, players are useless (see the defence last night).

Next manager, right now I really don’t care, there is clearly something wrong with the team, unfortunately the manager (as in all clubs) is the fall guy.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2019)

“Imagine Moyes with money, lad”  was a favourite blooo saying in 2000’s.

Didn’t Moyes also say he was a Striker away from regular CL football??

I can’t wait for Moyes to comeback 😂😂


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 5, 2019)

Didn't work for Dalglish 2nd time around. Had a very good win percentage of 60.9% from May 95-Feb 91 (307 games) and that had then dropped to 47.3% from Jan 11-May 12 (74 games) and only a league cup success. I use that merely as an example how a VERY GOOD manager can go back and not recreate the magiv. I am wary about any manager at any club going back. I don't think Moyes will repeat his success, certainly with the current resources and howl long does he get to rebuild (how long do any managers get these days?) and how does he attract the right players in?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Didn't work for Dalglish 2nd time around. Had a very good win percentage of 60.9% from May 95-Feb 91 (307 games) and that had then dropped to 47.3% from Jan 11-May 12 (74 games) and only a league cup success. I use that merely as an example how a VERY GOOD manager can go back and not recreate the magiv. I am wary about any manager at any club going back. *I don't think Moyes will repeat his success,* certainly with the current resources and howl long does he get to rebuild (how long do any managers get these days?) and how does he attract the right players in?
		
Click to expand...

What success? He won nothing!


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



*What’s wrong with having Moyes back ?*

He has been your best manager in the last twenty years , he gave the club stability and reaching the expected level . You have tried the more flamboyant managers and have suffered - when Allardyce came in he was excellent for you , got the team to 8th in the league, that wasn’t good enough for fans - you demanded he leave and Silva to come in , 12 months later , Silva to go now and calls of “not Moyes”

Moyes and indeed Allardyce would be a good fit for Everton , would give the club stability , solid league position and something build on.

*Right now what is happening is a victim of the fans demands*

Click to expand...

Nothing, absolutely nothing.

Nearly right with the last sentence. From my local experience and dealing with them on a daily basis, there demise is fuelled by our success. They’re in the shadows of Unberable FC/Devils Club and they want to be on that level but just aren’t patient enough as a fan base. 

Also the club has been mismanaged at board level for many many years with very little funding. Since Moshiri has came in with his laundered dosh, they’ve expected to compete but instead  pissed it up the wall spending huge money on overrated shite aswell as appointing wrong managers. 

Anyway, Merry Xmas Everton.......


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Nothing, absolutely nothing.

Nearly right with the last sentence. From my local experience and dealing with them on a daily basis, there demise is fuelled by our success. They’re in the shadows of Unberable FC/Devils Club and they want to be on that level but just aren’t patient enough as a fan base.

Also the club has been mismanaged at board level for many many years with very little funding. Since Moshiri has came in with his laundered dosh, they’ve expected to compete but instead  pissed it up the wall spending huge money on overrated shite aswell as appointing wrong managers.

Anyway, Merry Xmas Everton.......
		
Click to expand...

You’re contradicting yourself? Surely our frustration is well borne out or the managers and wasted money is wrong!

Can’t be both surely! Which manager do you believe we should of given more time to?


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 5, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Didn't work for Dalglish 2nd time around. Had a very good win percentage of 60.9% from May 95-Feb 91 (307 games) and that had then dropped to 47.3% from Jan 11-May 12 (74 games) and only a league cup success. I use that merely as an example how a VERY GOOD manager can go back and not recreate the magiv. I am wary about any manager at any club going back. I don't think Moyes will repeat his success, certainly with the current resources and howl long does he get to rebuild (how long do any managers get these days?) and how does he attract the right players in?
		
Click to expand...

Not sure what Dalglish proves tbh. 

He took over the first time when they were the dominant team in England. The second time they were mid table. His record would obviously be worse that time round.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Not sure what Dalglish proves tbh.

He took over the first time when they were the dominant team in England. The second time they were mid table. His record would obviously be worse that time round.
		
Click to expand...

He won a trophy with a very average squad.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			You’re contradicting yourself? Surely our frustration is well borne out or the managers and wasted money is wrong!

Can’t be both surely! Which manager do you believe we should of given more time to?
		
Click to expand...

No I'm not. It's a combination of everything I said. 👍

Koeman and Allardyce 😁

Everton fans have an expectation and rightly so given their previous history, though I think there set a little bit too high based on the last 30 years. 

The pressure and expectation is possibly weighing too heavy on the squad/management imo. 

This next management appointment HAS to be right. Moyes,Howe,Dyche etc arent what you need.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2019)

David Moyes with Tim Cahill as assistant. The Dream Team.

Yep, you heard it here first.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			“Imagine Moyes with money, lad”  was a favourite blooo saying in 2000’s.

Didn’t Moyes also say he was a Striker away from regular CL football??

I can’t wait for Moyes to comeback 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

It was winning the league  😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...e-could-have-won-the-premier-league-if-he-ha/


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			No I'm not. It's a combination of everything I said. 👍

Koeman and Allardyce 😁

Everton fans have an expectation and rightly so given their previous history, though I think there set a little bit too high based on the last 30 years.

The pressure and expectation is possibly weighing too heavy on the squad/management imo.

This next management appointment HAS to be right. Moyes,Howe,Dyche etc arent what you need.
		
Click to expand...

Fans frustration has come from the fact we hear “we’ve got our man” “he’s got top players” etc, then it turns out the manager or players are shite and money is wasted, hence frustration.
We’ll get behind anyone taking us forward or can take a team and show us they have a plan, all we have seen is 9-10 games forward and 20 back.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			David Moyes with Tim Cahill as assistant. The Dream Team.

Yep, you heard it here first.

Click to expand...

Yer know that mismanagement I mentioned........


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			David Moyes with Tim Cahill as assistant. The Dream Team.

Yep, you heard it here first.

Click to expand...

I really hope it's true 😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Fans frustration has come from the fact we hear “we’ve got our man” “he’s got top players” etc, then it turns out the manager or players are shite and money is wasted, hence frustration.
We’ll get behind anyone taking us forward or can take a team and show us they have a plan, all we have seen is 9-10 games forward and 20 back.
		
Click to expand...

That happens with most teams, look at Arsenal and Yernited. Only difference is they've got more slightly better players.

You're on yer 2nd DOF in 4 seasons, mismanagement....

The board need a clear plan and stick with it.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			That happens with most teams, look at Arsenal and Yernited. Only difference is they've got more slightly better players.

You're on yer 2nd DOF in 4 seasons, mismanagement....

The board need a clear plan and stick with it.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed, so again, it’s understandible why fans are so frustrated.
We are frustrated with all aspects of the Club.


----------



## Dan2501 (Dec 5, 2019)

I think with a decent manager with a bit of tactical nous this squad could be successful. I look at a core squad of Pickford, Coleman, Keane, Digne, Gomes, Delph, Sigurdsson, Richarlison and Kean as more than strong enough to be competing for the top 5 but Silva's complete lack of defensive organisation or creativity tactically is really holding us back. With the right manager this squad could become very good especially with the right moves over the next couple of transfer windows. Unfortunately, Silva isn't the man and we need to make that decision now before things get worse, and then take time to find the right man for the job. There's no point going for another stop-gap manager for 4 months before returning us to square one in the summer. Brands and the board need to take some time and get the right man in who fits the mould of what they're trying to do and is capable of getting the most out of this talented squad, that man is not David Moyes.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			He won a trophy with a very average squad.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly. Kinda dispells he did worse. If anything he exceeding realistic expectations.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			I think with a decent manager with a bit of tactical nous this squad could be successful. I look at a core squad of Pickford, Coleman, Keane, Digne, Gomes, Delph, Sigurdsson, Richarlison and Kean as more than strong enough to be competing for the top 5 but Silva's complete lack of defensive organisation or creativity tactically is really holding us back. With the right manager this squad could become very good especially with the right moves over the next couple of transfer windows. Unfortunately, Silva isn't the man and we need to make that decision now before things get worse, and then take time to find the right man for the job. There's no point going for another stop-gap manager for 4 months before returning us to square one in the summer. Brands and the board need to take some time and get the right man in who fits the mould of what they're trying to do and is capable of getting the most out of this talented squad,* that man is not David Moyes*.
		
Click to expand...

It is, prepare yourself.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 5, 2019)

The one thing that was clear last night was that we need a better structure, better organisation. Basketball tactics are not the way forward. No, that doesn't mean a return to Sam but I would take Moyes for the rest of the season as he is capable of organising a team. That buys the club time to get the right person in going forwards in the summer.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 5, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			I think with a decent manager with a bit of tactical nous this squad could be successful. I look at a core squad of Pickford, Coleman, Keane, Digne, Gomes, Delph, Sigurdsson, Richarlison and Kean as more than strong enough to be competing for the top 5 but Silva's complete lack of defensive organisation or creativity tactically is really holding us back. With the right manager this squad could become very good especially with the right moves over the next couple of transfer windows. Unfortunately, Silva isn't the man and we need to make that decision now before things get worse, and then take time to find the right man for the job. There's no point going for another stop-gap manager for 4 months before returning us to square one in the summer. Brands and the board need to take some time and get the right man in who fits the mould of what they're trying to do and is capable of getting the most out of this talented squad, that man is not David Moyes.
		
Click to expand...

You really think top 5 ?

Are you maybe overplaying how good those players actually are ? 

Most of those seem “decent” mid table players not players at the top end of the table - how many would get into the teams in the top 5 ? Maybe Richarlison as a squad player.

That to me is the issue - the club have spent a lot of money on mid table level players and expect those players to challenge the likes of Spurs , Chelsea etc on a regular basis.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 5, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The one thing that was clear last night was that we need a better structure, better organisation. Basketball tactics are not the way forward. No, that doesn't mean a return to Sam but I would take Moyes for the rest of the season as he is capable of organising a team. That buys the club time to get the right person in going forwards in the summer.
		
Click to expand...

Originally when I saw our team, I thought "hello", not just because of number of changes, but also both Lallana and Shaq coming in in a derby after a few months out and fitness being a concern. Ok, we could take them off after 60 mins when the game is less frenetic, but who knows what may have happened by then (red cards, injuries to others etc). I dont think I was alone to all I spoke to before the match, but Jurgen sees them train, so he has that.

Back 3/5's have seen us struggle this year, but also still see us triumph, so when Everton lined up that way thought we may struggle for the first half - couldnt be more wrong. To me the mad thing was them playing a back 5 in a line and also pushed up to near enough the half way line - madness. Nearly all of our goals or good chances either seen us hit a long pass over the top or somewhere in behind.  I know you went to a back four after Sidibe went off, but you still fell for the ball in behind.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Originally when I saw our team, I thought "hello", not just because of number of changes, but also both Lallana and Shaq coming in in a derby after a few months out and fitness being a concern. Ok, we could take them off after 60 mins when the game is less frenetic, but who knows what may have happened by then (red cards, injuries to others etc). I dont think I was alone to all I spoke to before the match, but Jurgen sees them train, so he has that.

Back 3/5's have seen us struggle this year, but also still see us triumph, so when Everton lined up that way thought we may struggle for the first half - couldnt be more wrong. To me the mad thing was them playing a back 5 in a line and also pushed up to near enough the half way line - madness. Nearly all of our goals or good chances either seen us hit a long pass over the top or somewhere in behind.  I know you went to a back four after Sidibe went off, but you still fell for the ball in behind.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on, could of lived with one error, ie, the first goal but continue with it for as long as they did was embarrassing.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 5, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Originally when I saw our team, I thought "hello", not just because of number of changes, but also both Lallana and Shaq coming in in a derby after a few months out and fitness being a concern. Ok, we could take them off after 60 mins when the game is less frenetic, but who knows what may have happened by then (red cards, injuries to others etc). I dont think I was alone to all I spoke to before the match, but Jurgen sees them train, so he has that.

Back 3/5's have seen us struggle this year, but also still see us triumph, so when Everton lined up that way thought we may struggle for the first half - couldnt be more wrong. To me the mad thing was them playing a back 5 in a line and also pushed up to near enough the half way line - madness. Nearly all of our goals or good chances either seen us hit a long pass over the top or somewhere in behind.  I know you went to a back four after Sidibe went off, but you still fell for the ball in behind.
		
Click to expand...

There was a little bit of that in the Leicester game as well. Silva had the guts to change the system before half time, hooking Sidibe off, but it was clear within the first few attacks that the long ball was opening us up and we were on the back foot by too much by the time it was changed. How basic is that? Why play so high against an attack with pace?

We left Davies so alone in the centre as well. I'm not sure Silva has realised that Gomes isn't on the pitch still. Poor old Tom had to look after everyone on his own.


----------



## Bazzatron (Dec 5, 2019)

Think Everton should go for Bilic, perfect fit...


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 5, 2019)

I've just seen Dele's goal from last night, that was outrageous. Old school Dele that was. He's back! Literally all it took was playing him nearer the goal like the fans said all along. I wonder why Poch stopped trying that? 

People said Jose would park the bus - maybe he should be! Conceded 2 goals in each of his games so far. It doesn't help that we've had to have our second choice keeper in though of course. We could really use a new centre back next month, especially if Toby and Jan are soon to be on their travels.


----------



## Slime (Dec 5, 2019)

Great result for United, just what Ole needed.
McDominate is turning into a real player and Rashford looked like he was enjoying himself, too.
Fred had one of his better games and, wait for it, Ashley Young played quite well and didn't get booked!
I'm not sure we've turned a corner, but we're definitely indicating.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2019)

Just read this and made me smile:

_Oumar Niasse is set to outlast a fourth Everton manager.

This tiny fact neatly sums up why the football club is a complete shambles._


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 5, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Just read this and made me smile:

_Oumar Niasse is set to outlast a fourth Everton manager._

_This tiny fact neatly sums up why the football club is a complete shambles._



Click to expand...

That is grim, so grim 

Apparently Moshiri has arrived at Finch Farm. The axe is about to fall.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



*Originally when I saw our team, I thought "hello", not just because of number of changes, but also both Lallana and Shaq coming in in a derby after a few months out and fitness being a concern. *Ok, we could take them off after 60 mins when the game is less frenetic, but who knows what may have happened by then (red cards, injuries to others etc). I dont think I was alone to all I spoke to before the match, but Jurgen sees them train, so he has that.

Back 3/5's have seen us struggle this year, but also still see us triumph, so when Everton lined up that way thought we may struggle for the first half - couldnt be more wrong. To me the mad thing was them playing a back 5 in a line and also pushed up to near enough the half way line - madness. Nearly all of our goals or good chances either seen us hit a long pass over the top or somewhere in behind.  I know you went to a back four after Sidibe went off, but you still fell for the ball in behind.
		
Click to expand...

I met a few mates in the willow bank for a pre match bevy to settle the nerves and by the time I was leaving,  I left with no nerves but lots of bemusement. 

I thought Klopp had been to the Formby  bowling club Christmas party on tuesday night and had woke up with a stinking hangover and a mad plan 😁


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 5, 2019)

Well Silva has been sacked


----------



## 3offTheTee (Dec 5, 2019)

At last!


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 5, 2019)

Silva to Arsenal 🤔


----------



## fundy (Dec 5, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Silva to Arsenal 🤔
		
Click to expand...


yeah we cant wait to employ the guy who paid over 30m for Iwobi lol


----------



## Wolf (Dec 5, 2019)

fundy said:



			yeah we cant wait to employ the guy who paid over 30m for Iwobi lol
		
Click to expand...

Everton should have sacked him immediately after he did that 😂 best bit of business we done in ages getting £30m for him


----------



## paddyc (Dec 5, 2019)

Nearly as good  as the 72 mil we paid for Niclas Pepe!


----------



## fundy (Dec 5, 2019)

and the xhaka love in continues 

be interesting to see where he and Torreira play


----------



## fundy (Dec 5, 2019)

paddyc said:



			Nearly as good  as the 72 mil we paid for Niclas Pepe!
		
Click to expand...

on the plus side weve only paid 15m so far lol


----------



## Wolf (Dec 5, 2019)

fundy said:



			and the xhaka love in continues 

be interesting to see where he and Torreira play
		
Click to expand...

Was thinking that myself, hopefully Torreira will be more deep lying amd play the role we bought  him for 



fundy said:



			on the plus side weve only paid 15m so far lol
		
Click to expand...

Thank god, the player we didn't need but was bought to show we have money


----------



## paddyc (Dec 5, 2019)

The gooners live on Amazon Prime Video tonight whose watching...i am and surely we will win...wont we😣


----------



## Wolf (Dec 5, 2019)

paddyc said:



			The gooners live on Amazon Prime Video tonight whose watching...i am and surely we will win...wont we😣
		
Click to expand...

I'll be watching but the jury is still out on how we perform, doesn't matter whose up top its how we stop conceding so many chance we nees to solve


----------



## paddyc (Dec 5, 2019)

fundy said:



			on the plus side weve only paid 15m so far lol
		
Click to expand...

Is that all, thats ok then, been worth every penny lol.


----------



## fundy (Dec 5, 2019)

paddyc said:



			Is that all, thats ok then, been worth every penny lol.
		
Click to expand...

i dont think hes that bad, hes not what we needed and prob not right for the prem but a better footballer than weve seen for sure, cant have been an easy club to have joined


----------



## fundy (Dec 5, 2019)

paddyc said:



			The gooners live on Amazon Prime Video tonight whose watching...i am and surely we will win...wont we😣
		
Click to expand...

1/2 having not won in 8 games, what could go wrong lol


----------



## fundy (Dec 5, 2019)

paddyc said:



			Is that all, thats ok then, been worth every penny lol.
		
Click to expand...


almost as good as buying the centre half we needed then loaning him back for a year lol


----------



## fundy (Dec 5, 2019)

well nothings changed, over to you Leno and Aubameyang lol


----------



## fundy (Dec 5, 2019)

still not a clear role for anyone in midfield, 2 passes is all it takes to remove xhaka torreira and willock from the game and expose the unexposable, seen better organisation down the local park


----------



## fundy (Dec 5, 2019)

Brighton deservedly in front now


----------



## Wolf (Dec 5, 2019)

fundy said:



			still not a clear role for anyone in midfield, 2 passes is all it takes to remove xhaka torreira and willock from the game and expose the unexposable, seen better organisation down the local park
		
Click to expand...

Ironically our best midfield player so far is Xhaka.. Torreira I've literally no idea where he's playing literally running about like a headless chicken. Willock is totally absent and our back 4 as usual total shit.. 

And there it is 1-0 from great defending 🙄... 

Brighton are far superior so far...


----------



## fundy (Dec 5, 2019)

Managers all over Europe fighting to declare themselves out of the running for arsenal manager lol


----------



## fundy (Dec 5, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Ironically our best midfield player so far is Xhaka.. Torreira I've literally no idea where he's playing literally running about like a headless chicken. Willock is totally absent and our back 4 as usual total shit.. 

And there it is 1-0 from great defending 🙄... 

Brighton are far superior so far...
		
Click to expand...


torreira appears to be playing left wing, and occasionally right back, just about sums it up. how hard is it to install him in the role he played last year and build round that!


----------



## fundy (Dec 5, 2019)

This tweet sums it up:

Tom Acres @TEAcres
3m
Next time Arsenal are on Amazon I’m going to ask them to leave it in the bin behind the shed.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 5, 2019)

Well done Shelvey.  Sheffield keepers had a mare. Play to the whistle, particularly with var.


----------



## Wolf (Dec 5, 2019)

fundy said:



			torreira appears to be playing left wing, and occasionally right back, just about sums it up. how hard is it to install him in the role he played last year and build round that!
		
Click to expand...

Exactly what im seeing he's all over the place as appears to have no defined role, yet he's the one midfielder that should be set in CDM position and build round that.

We literally have no shape, nobody showing for the ball and no defensive unit again.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2019)

fundy said:



			torreira appears to be playing left wing, and occasionally right back, just about sums it up. how hard is it to install him in the role he played last year and build round that!
		
Click to expand...

Should've kept Wenger .........


----------



## fundy (Dec 5, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Should've kept Wenger .........
		
Click to expand...

feck off trolling troll baiter


----------



## Wolf (Dec 5, 2019)

Not  really much to say about that first half  except Brighton are playing well....


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2019)

fundy said:



			feck off trolling troll baiter 

Click to expand...

Busted. 🤭🤭🤭


----------



## sawtooth (Dec 5, 2019)

fundy said:



			Managers all over Europe fighting to declare themselves out of the running for arsenal manager lol
		
Click to expand...

Hilarious.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 5, 2019)

If you arsenal fans want to cheer yourselves up look up the Newcastle second goal and be pleased you aren't a Sheff Utd fan.


----------



## fundy (Dec 5, 2019)

some better signs 2nd half, at least there seems to be some impetus if not the necessary structure/discipline

game could still go either way but every chance to win this now


----------



## Robin Hood (Dec 5, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If you arsenal fans want to cheer yourselves up look up the Newcastle second goal and be pleased you aren't a Sheff Utd fan.
		
Click to expand...

Toon Army - not a classic but well played - only one point behind Spurs.
Who said we were doomed to be relegated ?


----------



## Wolf (Dec 5, 2019)

Certainly some better signs going forward, without the ball we still concede far to much space and look vulnerable at every chance. Leno kept us in it again at a vital time, certainly shows how much work whoever comes in as manager has on their hands to get is being a team completely again.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 5, 2019)

Robin Hood said:



			Toon Army - not a classic but well played - only one point behind Spurs.
Who said we were doomed to be relegated ?
		
Click to expand...

I'll put my hand up there 😁. Mind, I also said Joelinton would be the worst signing of the season and he isn't proving me wrong so far. Then again who needs him when you have big Andy back 👍.


----------



## fundy (Dec 5, 2019)

sigh


----------



## Wolf (Dec 5, 2019)

And theres the defending as a team issue once again.


----------



## pendodave (Dec 5, 2019)

Impressed by Brighton. Had the misfortune to watch them live last season. It was like having your eyes poked out. Shows the difference a proper manager can make...


----------



## pendodave (Dec 5, 2019)

Boom de la boom....


----------



## fundy (Dec 5, 2019)

if Luiz was the answer what was the question........

PS Fish this is rhetorical, you dont need to answer  )


----------



## fundy (Dec 5, 2019)

add Brighton to the list of sides like Palace and Southampton that have been the better side at Emirates lately


----------



## Cherry13 (Dec 5, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'll put my hand up there 😁. Mind, I also said Joelinton would be the worst signing of the season and he isn't proving me wrong so far. Then again who needs him when you have big Andy back 👍.
		
Click to expand...

I think it’s a bit harsh on him, granted he isn’t setting the world alight, but he’s hardly getting the service or playing in a team that’s going to provide him with a tonne of chances.  I can’t recall any glaring shockers he’s had.  
Bruce has done well to build the team around our main strength and that’s pace wide, and set pieces.  Almiron and ASM are clearly the outlets in the team and neither of them are particularly going to get to a byeline to whip a cross in for him. 

Mind we are dull as dishwater to watch, not sure the finishing stats but possession can’t have been above 35%, we’ll survive this season.  But I think we’ve already peaked.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 5, 2019)

Another crap display. when you lose at home to Brighton  you know your in huge trouble.😡


----------



## Wolf (Dec 5, 2019)

fundy said:



			if Luiz was the answer what was the question........

PS Fish this is rhetorical, you dont need to answer  )
		
Click to expand...

TBH i don't think was can even blame Luiz. Collectively as a team simply woeful yet again, with the exception of a 10min spell we were so slow all over the pitch, midfield had so many holes in it as Torreira was all over the place, i actually give Xhaka credit tonight as he was at least trying to always play forwards. Even though we're playing slow Ozil then slows it down even more. Where wad Auba as well just disappeared in 2nd half then randomly seen seeking permission to come back on the pitch. 

We're simply not playing as a team, not defending as a team and merely look like they are not bothered. Ive literally never known our team to be so negative and poor as they are at the moment.


----------



## Wolf (Dec 5, 2019)

paddyc said:



			Another crap display. when you lose at home to Brighton  you know your in huge trouble.😡
		
Click to expand...

We didn't just lose we were outplayed in evwry dept😒


----------



## ger147 (Dec 5, 2019)

Great result for Brighton, could be a very valuable 3 points come the end of the season.


----------



## fundy (Dec 5, 2019)

paddyc said:



			Another crap display. when you lose at home to Brighton  you know your in huge trouble.😡
		
Click to expand...

yet again conceded 20 shots to a side that are supposed to be bottom half this season, as we did to watford, southampton and plenty of others

does beg the question what they do in training each week, as it clearly isnt about structure, pressing or defending as a unit. individuals get isolated and then make individual errors to compound the problem

is it really that hard to set up the side with a solid structure, a proper shield to the defense and then use that as a base to go forward from?

gonna be even harder in January when the likes of Aubam are in the window


----------



## paddyc (Dec 5, 2019)

Looks like Auba cannot wait to get out of there


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2019)

I’m not going to bed without watching Famtv 😃😃


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2019)

Awful again from Arsenal and definitely a rudderless ship on and off the pitch. Somethin needs to change and fast but not sure the club know what they want

No surprise Silva has gone. Inevitable after the Anfield loss and the clamour for Moyes still grows and some seeing it as a positive https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50681211 

Good win for Newcastle. Didn't expect them to get anything at Sheffield


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 6, 2019)

Cherry13 said:



			I think it’s a bit harsh on him, granted he isn’t setting the world alight, but he’s hardly getting the service or playing in a team that’s going to provide him with a tonne of chances.  I can’t recall any glaring shockers he’s had. 
Bruce has done well to build the team around our main strength and that’s pace wide, and set pieces.  Almiron and ASM are clearly the outlets in the team and neither of them are particularly going to get to a byeline to whip a cross in for him.

Mind we are dull as dishwater to watch, not sure the finishing stats but possession can’t have been above 35%, we’ll survive this season.  But I think we’ve already peaked.
		
Click to expand...

He hasn't had any glaring shockers, he has barely had any chances at all. He just looks very slow, ponderous, needs too long on the ball, isn't holding the ball up well, isn't bringing in the other players around him. I do agree with you that he isn't being fed particularly well and as a welcome to the premiership Newcastle are a tough gig, especially a striker in a defensive team. However Carroll came in last night and made a real impact and gave Joelinton a lesson in what is needed.

Don't forget he came to the Toon with only 8 goals in the bank last season. £40m for a striker with 8 goals to his name in a season, it made no sense. (Here speaks someone who's team spent slightly more on Alex Iwobi 😱🤣😭)


----------



## need_my_wedge (Dec 6, 2019)

Wolf said:



			TBH i don't think was can even blame Luiz. Collectively as a team simply woeful yet again, with the exception of a 10min spell we were so slow all over the pitch, midfield had so many holes in it as Torreira was all over the place, i actually give Xhaka credit tonight as he was at least trying to always play forwards. Even though we're playing slow Ozil then slows it down even more. Where wad Auba as well just disappeared in 2nd half then randomly seen seeking permission to come back on the pitch.

We're simply not playing as a team, not defending as a team and merely look like they are not bothered. Ive literally never known our team to be so negative and poor as they are at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

Really does look like no one can be bothered at times. These days everyone seems to want to join a team that is playing at the heights. Whatever happened to being the players that get you to the heights, the legends are the ones that get you there and work hard for it, not the ones that join at the top and just skate on the surface. These players really need to take a good hard look at themselves and prove that they should be wearing those shirts.


----------



## 3offTheTee (Dec 6, 2019)

Quickie. When was the last time 3 Premiership Clubs were looking for  Manager?


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 6, 2019)

Yesterday?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 6, 2019)

Probably same time last year. It is the panic time.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 6, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			(Here speaks someone who's team spent slightly more on Alex Iwobi 😱🤣😭)
		
Click to expand...

And whose team persists with Dominic Calvert-Lewin.

I don't like digging out individuals and, in particular, relatively young ones but all I see with him is a willingness to work. 

That is admirable but  a striker is measured in goals and even if Everton were playing well I can't see him ever delivering enough.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 6, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			And whose team persists with Dominic Calvert-Lewin.

I don't like digging out individuals and, in particular, relatively young ones but all I see with him is a willingness to work.

That is admirable but  a striker is measured in goals and even if Everton were playing well I can't see him ever delivering enough.
		
Click to expand...

Can't argue with that. He holds the ball up very well, he brings team mates into play but ultimately he is there to score goals and I don't see him being more than a 10 a season man at best. He was through in the derby game midweek and never looked like scoring. He was probably taken out at the very end but nevertheless he never looked as though the net was going to bulge. We have him, Keane (the young lad from Juventus) and Tosun as our strikers and none look the part, although that is a bit unfair on Keane right now as he should not be judged coming into a team playing as we are. Ultimately, we don't have at least one striker who is ready now and up to the job and that is why we have been in trouble for a while. We have never placed Lukaku, spent a lot of money but never replaced him. Keane may be the right player but we can't afford to bring him and CL through at the same time. You can do that with one striker, if you have an established guy doing the main job, but not two.

No idea why we blew the money on Iwobi, it should have been spent on an established striker old enough to shave, not a wide man or another 'promising youngster'.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2019)

Chelsea can sign players in January - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50668975

Think Lampard has done well with the youngsters and players at his disposal but will he look to strengthen


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 6, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Chelsea can sign players in January - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50668975

Think Lampard has done well with the youngsters and players at his disposal but will he look to strengthen
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, wave goodbye to Tomori, Mount, Hudson etc, we won't be seeing them again for a while.


----------



## Fish (Dec 6, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, wave goodbye to Tomori, Mount, Hudson etc, we won't be seeing them again for a while.
		
Click to expand...

#KnobAlert....


----------



## Fish (Dec 6, 2019)

Fish said:



			When Arsenal & Sheff Utd win tomorrow, Spurs go down to 10th, #JustSaying 😜
		
Click to expand...

hmm, so this is why I never win the pools or Super 6


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 6, 2019)

Strong reports of nigel Pearson to Watford until the end of the season. What are Watford fans thoughts on that? At least they are not messing around with stand ins.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Strong reports of nigel Pearson to Watford until the end of the season. What are Watford fans thoughts on that? At least they are not messing around with stand ins.
		
Click to expand...

Confirmed until the end of the season. Not sure it sounds as though the club have a lot of faith in him but given their position I guess he's got a free roll of the dice as I don't think too many expect them to stay up


----------



## Slime (Dec 6, 2019)

Slime said:



			Great result for United, just what Ole needed.
McDominate is turning into a real player and Rashford looked like he was enjoying himself, too.
Fred had one of his better games and, wait for it, Ashley Young played quite well and didn't get booked!
I'm not sure we've turned a corner, but we're definitely indicating.
		
Click to expand...


Bump.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 6, 2019)

Not PL as such, but plenty of their National team playing in it.
The FAI, Football Association of Ireland, have announced they are €55 million in debt! 
Wonder if it’ll effect the National Team or League Clubs!


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 6, 2019)

Slime said:



			Bump.  

Click to expand...

Someone needing some attention? 😉


----------



## Slime (Dec 6, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			Someone needing some attention? 😉
		
Click to expand...

United had a good result, was just saying ................................... and repeating.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 6, 2019)

Slime said:



			United had a good result, was just saying ................................... and repeating. 

Click to expand...

Can you do it against City though.?


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 7, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Can you do it against City though.?
		
Click to expand...

Unlikely


----------



## Slime (Dec 7, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Can you do it against City though.?
		
Click to expand...

I doubt it, but where there's life and all that.
Never stop believing.
No doubt there'll be a fair few L'pool supporters cheering us on.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2019)

So the FA won’t choose Anfield for an England warm up game for the Euros because LPool won’t lift the ban on that scumbag rag of a paper Sn journalists from attending. 
Well done LPool, you get my support on that one!


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2019)

Slime said:



			I doubt it, but where there's life and all that.
Never stop believing.
*No doubt there'll be a fair few L'pool supporters cheering us on.*

Click to expand...

I’d rather drink bleach than do that.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 7, 2019)

Slime said:



			I doubt it, but where there's life and all that.
Never stop believing.
*No doubt there'll be a fair few L'pool supporters cheering us on.*

Click to expand...

No chance 😂😂😂😂
Duncan Ferguson having a very audition at the moment - certainly showing a lot of passion


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 7, 2019)

I can assure everyone that lots of Kent based Liverpool fans are wishing Utd the best of luck!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 7, 2019)

It will be nice to watch MotD for a change tonight 😀. Who should I ask for what time it starts?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2019)




----------



## Dan2501 (Dec 7, 2019)

And so begins the Ferguson era. Great performance, so different from the Liverpool game. Love the passion. Don’t think he’s the right choice long term but going to be fun for a few weeks.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I can assure everyone that lots of Kent based Liverpool fans are wishing Utd the best of luck!
		
Click to expand...

It's a pity they cant support their local team.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			It's a pity they cant support their local team.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed mate. It amazes me just how many of em have grand parents from Liverpool and Manchester 😂😂


----------



## Dan2501 (Dec 7, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1203337211539648517
What. A. Goal. Son is seriously good. My Fantasy captain as well. Noice.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 7, 2019)

Dan2501 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1203337211539648517
What. A. Goal. Son is seriously good. My Fantasy captain as well. Noice.
		
Click to expand...

Lovely run and finish but also shocking defending - the way Linekar was talking we were just about to watch the greatest goal ever scored


----------



## Dan2501 (Dec 7, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lovely run and finish but also shocking defending - the way Linekar was talking we were just about to watch the greatest goal ever scored
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, absolutely awful defending, but hell of a solo goal!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It will be nice to watch MotD for a change tonight 😀. Who should I ask for what time it starts?
		
Click to expand...

Duncan Ferguson


----------



## Slime (Dec 7, 2019)

Dan2501 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1203337211539648517
What. A. Goal. Son is seriously good. My Fantasy captain as well. Noice.
		
Click to expand...

The link doesn't work, it says 'Account Suspended'.
On Gillette Soccer Saturday it was described as this season's Goal of the Season!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2019)

Slime said:



			I doubt it, but where there's life and all that.
Never stop believing.
No doubt there'll be a fair few L'pool supporters cheering us on.
		
Click to expand...

Couldn’t belive my ears today playing golf .
Two MU supporters telling me they don’t mind losing today if it means City can catch Liverpool.
That’s not good and I told them.
Made me chuckle for a few holes.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 7, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Duncan Ferguson 

Click to expand...

I think he is still out on the pitch celebrating 😄


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think he is still out on the pitch celebrating 😄
		
Click to expand...

Does beg the question “why the players can play with this level of fight.”?
But didn’t do it for Silva.

Dunc until end of season then a big manager makes sense to me, no panick appointments.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 7, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Does beg the question “why the players can play with this level of fight.”?
But didn’t do it for Silva.

Dunc until end of season then a big manager makes sense to me, no panick appointments.
		
Click to expand...

How often do we see that difference when a manager changes?

I listened to a good chunk of the game on the radio and it sounds as though we played with greater intensity, got the ball forward quicker and played a 4-4-2. There was a clear change in how we played,  not just that we fought more. Perhaps the change in style and shape helped improve the fight? 

I agree, no need to rush in if Dunc can keep this going. See us safely through this season and set up another manager to take over on June 1st if they are not available now.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 7, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It will be nice to watch MotD for a change tonight 😀. Who should I ask for what time it starts?
		
Click to expand...

I think last time you fancied it, Jimmy Hill was hosting it.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 7, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think last time you fancied Jimmy Hill was hosting it. 

Click to expand...

It feels like it 😢


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2019)

The Klopp Express rolls on and guarantees the mighty reds are top of the tree at xmas.

Cant wait for the homecoming parade and to see the wooden "top of the league at xmas" trophy being paraded through the streets of Liverpool 😁😁


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The Klopp Express rolls on and guarantees the mighty reds are top of the tree at xmas.

Cant wait for the homecoming parade and to see the wooden "top of the league at xmas" trophy being paraded through the streets of Liverpool 😁😁
		
Click to expand...

The good thing is he is using the squad as well.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			The good thing is he is using the squad as well.
		
Click to expand...

Even better those players hes using are stepping up to the plate.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 7, 2019)

UTD should be three nil up here - very quick on the break and going right through City , Guardiola will prob complain but it was a clear penalty

Fernadinho getting away with his fouls - as per normal

Can tell Neville is getting too excited - he is getting all squeaky


----------



## Slime (Dec 7, 2019)

It's a remarkably open game, good for the neutral, if there are any.


----------



## sawtooth (Dec 7, 2019)

Another penalty for Utd, it’s really unbelievable how many they get.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Another penalty for Utd, it’s really unbelievable how many they get.
		
Click to expand...

It was a stonewall penalty.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 7, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Another penalty for Utd, it’s really unbelievable how many they get.
		
Click to expand...

It’s almost as though they create dangerous chances....

They seem to have gotten more since var. can’t recall any dubious ones though.


----------



## chrisd (Dec 7, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Another penalty for Utd, it’s really unbelievable how many they get.
		
Click to expand...

Penalty all day long Sean


----------



## sawtooth (Dec 7, 2019)

chrisd said:



			Penalty all day long Sean
		
Click to expand...

Not disputing the pen Chris, just pointing out that Utd get twice as many penalties as anyone else👍


----------



## Kellfire (Dec 7, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			UTD should be three nil up here - very quick on the break and going right through City , Guardiola will prob complain but it was a clear penalty

Fernadinho getting away with his fouls - as per normal

Can tell Neville is getting too excited - he is getting all squeaky
		
Click to expand...

Still an octave below a normal Carragher.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Another penalty for Utd, it’s really unbelievable how many they get.
		
Click to expand...

Jeez you need a new telly.

Why are players bitching to the ref.
It’s been given by VAR.
Think City should have had one there Fred moves his hand out as he’s going down.


----------



## chrisd (Dec 7, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Not disputing the pen Chris, just pointing out that Utd get twice as many penalties as anyone else👍
		
Click to expand...

So long as they are fairly awarded it's no problem. I'm really only concerned that the Mighty Eagles beat Watford 0-0


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			UTD should be three nil up here - very quick on the break and going right through City , Guardiola will prob complain but it was a clear penalty

*Fernadinho getting away with his fouls - as per normal*

Can tell Neville is getting too excited - he is getting all squeaky
		
Click to expand...

Should've been booked for screaming in the refs face for not giving the pen.


----------



## Kellfire (Dec 7, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Jeez you need a new telly.

Why are players bitching to the ref.
It’s been given by VAR.
Think City should have had one there Fred moves his hand out as he’s going down.
		
Click to expand...

As a natural reaction to being about to hit the floor. You trying falling and forcing yourself to keep your hand at your side and lets your head hit the deck. Never a penalty.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Should've been booked for screaming in the refs face for not giving the pen.
		
Click to expand...

I just don’t know why refs put up with that???


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			As a natural reaction to being about to hit the floor. You trying falling and forcing yourself to keep your hand at your side and lets your head hit the deck. Never a penalty.
		
Click to expand...

I think it was. A bit harsh but hand to ball.
Just hope those missed chances don’t come back on you.
You should be three up at least.


----------



## Kellfire (Dec 7, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think it was. A bit harsh but hand to ball.
Just hope those missed chances don’t come back on you.
You should be three up at least.
		
Click to expand...

This is just Rashford summed up - overall he’s a poor finisher and doesn’t convert enough of the chances he creates.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Should've been booked for screaming in the refs face for not giving the pen.
		
Click to expand...

Every game I see him in he must do at least 3 or 4 yellow card offences but gets away with them


----------



## sawtooth (Dec 7, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Jeez you need a new telly.

Why are players bitching to the ref.
It’s been given by VAR.
Think City should have had one there Fred moves his hand out as he’s going down.
		
Click to expand...

And you may need a new brain, I’m not disputing the penalty.🙏


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			And you may need a new brain, I’m not disputing the penalty.🙏
		
Click to expand...

Well I hope your not a donor.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2019)

How’s that not yellow for Walker?


----------



## fundy (Dec 7, 2019)

City fans the latest to be a disgrace


----------



## fundy (Dec 7, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			How’s that not yellow for Walker?
		
Click to expand...


Sterling trying hard for one too, 5.6 for me


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 7, 2019)

City fans throwing objects at the players - very classy.

Sterling then throwing himself to the ground


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2019)

Is ther an echo in here......echo.........echo....


----------



## Kellfire (Dec 7, 2019)

I have such mixed emotions right now.


----------



## fundy (Dec 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Is ther an echo in here......echo.........echo....
		
Click to expand...


dunno but on my feed you keep talking top yourself!!!!!!


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2019)

fundy said:



			dunno but on my feed you keep talking top yourself!!!!!! 

Click to expand...

Can’t help it mate 😂


----------



## Captainron (Dec 7, 2019)

Guardiola out


----------



## Slime (Dec 7, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			I have such mixed emotions right now.
		
Click to expand...

Is it me, or is every minute taking about two minutes!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 7, 2019)

Game on but even a draw too little to make a difference in the bigger picture


----------



## Slime (Dec 7, 2019)

Ooops.


----------



## Slime (Dec 7, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Game on but even a draw too little to make a difference in the bigger picture
		
Click to expand...

Not to United!


----------



## sawtooth (Dec 7, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well I hope your not a donor.
		
Click to expand...

It’s not my fault you can’t follow English


----------



## Kellfire (Dec 7, 2019)

Anyone know anywhere I can buy a cheap Leicester shirt?


----------



## Slime (Dec 7, 2019)

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOM !!
Great result, great resilience.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Anyone know anywhere I can buy a cheap Leicester shirt?
		
Click to expand...

Your on the up now you can’t change.
Deserved win imo ,shows how crap City are if you get at them at the back.
United had a lot of counters there and should have made more of them.
Wan Bissaka for me marked Sterling out the game, that’s not easy to do.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			It’s not my fault you can’t follow English
		
Click to expand...

Get over yourself they get penalties because they have very quick players who get in the penalty areas.
Your second post wasn’t showing hence the remark..


----------



## Kellfire (Dec 7, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Get over yourself they get penalties because they have very quick players who get in the penalty areas.
Your second post wasn’t showing hence the remark..
		
Click to expand...

A Liverpool fan defending our penalty record. This truly is a remarkable day!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 7, 2019)

Get the open top bus booked. No stopping Liverpool now (even with my prediction record)


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 7, 2019)

Seems also some racist abuse towards some UTD players from that same corner


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Get the open top bus booked. No stopping Liverpool now (even with my prediction record)
		
Click to expand...

No fear Lord Jonah, its  already booked. In fact it’s a rolling booking as every year is always our year.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seems also some racist abuse towards some UTD players from that same corner
		
Click to expand...

How did you make that out from the sky commentary?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			No fear Lord Jonah, its  already booked. In fact it’s a rolling booking as every year is always our year.
		
Click to expand...

Just make sure it has some petrol in this year. It may actually be hitting the streets


----------



## fundy (Dec 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			How did you make that out from the sky commentary?
		
Click to expand...


well there was one fan in the front row who seemed to think he in the primate enclosure at the zoo before Fred went over to take the corner!


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Just make sure it has some petrol in this year. It may actually be hitting the streets
		
Click to expand...

Electric now, helping cutting emissions etc 😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2019)

fundy said:



			well there was one fan in the front row who seemed to think he in the primate enclosure at the zoo before Fred went over to take the corner!
		
Click to expand...

I never saw that, was more concerned for the lady trying to get out of their with her little lad.

Horrible, those City fans have short memories.


----------



## fundy (Dec 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Electric now, helping cutting emissions etc 😉
		
Click to expand...


they put the wheels back on yet


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Electric now, helping cutting emissions etc 😉
		
Click to expand...

As long as it's charged. Going to take a while to make the journey with all those fans on the streets.


----------



## fundy (Dec 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I never saw that, was more concerned for the lady trying to get out of their with her little lad.

Horrible, those City fans have short memories.
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1203388584054665216


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			How did you make that out from the sky commentary?
		
Click to expand...

🤨

It’s all over social media

A good number of other videos of the City fans and yep a mother trying to get her daughter out 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1203392915659198464


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2019)

fundy said:



			they put the wheels back on yet 

Click to expand...

Yes, we gave it warm up and took it for a spin back in June when we won a little European trophy, it’s purring just like Jurgen's tricky reds 👍🏻


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤨

It’s all over social media

A good number of other videos of the City fans and yep a mother trying to get her daughter out


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1203392915659198464

Click to expand...

👍🏻👍🏻 Doesn’t look very good.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			A Liverpool fan defending our penalty record. This truly is a remarkable day! 

Click to expand...

Ok you bribe the ref .


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 7, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It will be nice to watch MotD for a change tonight 😀. Who should I ask for what time it starts?
		
Click to expand...

I think I need to make a list of rules...

1, you can’t play
2, see number 1 

😃


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 7, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			I think I need to make a list of rules...

1, you can’t play
2, see number 1

😃
		
Click to expand...

😭😭😭😭


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 7, 2019)

Hey Junior + Karl, what times motd on bros? 


🤣🤣


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			👍🏻👍🏻 Doesn’t look very good.
		
Click to expand...





I’m not sure why the stewards just stand there as well - could also see it when they were throwing stuff


----------



## ger147 (Dec 7, 2019)

fundy said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1203388584054665216

Click to expand...

What is wrong with these people?????

It's nearly 2020 for god's sake, are we not past this yet???

I'm not picking on Man C, I'm not a fan of any team in the premiership but hopefully these "people" are identified and subject to the full force of the law.

You have to pity any kids these knuckle draggers may have...


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 7, 2019)

Really sad .throwing things is bad enough.
You would think with all the crap Sterling has to deal with his own fans would have more sense.
Stewards just standing doing nothing isn’t good.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 7, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Really sad .throwing things is bad enough.
You would think with all the crap Sterling has to deal with his own fans would have more sense.
Stewards just standing doing nothing isn’t good.
		
Click to expand...

Sadly I find it pretty rare to see any stewards at any ground wanting to get involved


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 7, 2019)

Hugely surprised and disappointed from the morons being shown. Growing up in the NW, City fans predominantly came from inner city Manchester which is as multi cultural as it gets. I'm well out of touch now but I'd be surprised if the demographics have changed that much. I'd be interested to hear Tashy's view of the mix of fans now but my guess is this is very out of character for City and the club and fans will be mortified.


----------



## fundy (Dec 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes, we gave it warm up and took it for a spin back in June when we won a little European trophy, it’s purring just like Jurgen's tricky reds 👍🏻
		
Click to expand...


not too far you good thing  11 points is plenty


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 7, 2019)

Fair play to Neville - pointing out the current political situation and attitude towards migrants since Brexit and also highlighting the PM and his racist remarks. 
Is Football going backwards in regards racist behaviour?


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2019)

fundy said:



			not too far you good thing  11 points is plenty 

Click to expand...

Nah city are capable of 18 straight wins


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Fair play to Neville - pointing out the current political situation and attitude towards migrants since Brexit and also highlighting the PM and his racist remarks.
Is Football going backwards in regards racist behaviour?
		
Click to expand...

No, society is though.  Unfortunately those same bacons frequent football games. Football isnt to blame.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Electric now, helping cutting emissions etc 😉
		
Click to expand...

I think there will be lots of emissions in Manchester that weekend, if we win it.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 7, 2019)

Is it going backwards or are we now saying no more and any racism is being highlighted and called out? I'd like to think it is the latter. The pain we are going through now is perhaps inevitable before we can come out of the other side. Let's hope it happens quickly.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 7, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 28708


I’m not sure why the stewards just stand there as well - could also see it when they were throwing stuff
		
Click to expand...

Lets face it, that abuse can take place in any corner of a ground, especially in a game involving rivals.

One racist knobhead does not necessarily make a fan base racist.

For balance, I wonder how many of them throwing lighters and cheering them on were complaining about City's bus getting pelted by our divvies?


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 7, 2019)

I wonder if Raheem still has this opinion. 

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...ubs-fans-racially-abuse-players-a4123461.html


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 7, 2019)

Just got back from the game. Firstly Utd turned City over big style. They did what teams have been doing all season. Numbers behind the ball and hit on the break and they did it very well. If Rashford could finish they would of won the game at half time. I mentioned the other day about why Ollie is still in a job. I must be missing something because Utd were excellent. So why have they not been getting the results. I looked at utds starting 11 and thought who, who and who. But then the same was said with the class off 92.
VAR played its part again in not letting fans at the ground know wtf is going off.
During the second half when the game was stopped, we thought it was for the City knobheads lobbing coins at Fred. It now transpires rascist abuse was heard. Let me assure you it is not one or two people that go to see City ( and I won't use the term fans).some of the vile songs they were singing before the game from twats that are late teens early twenties, effing and jeffin in front of toddlers. 
Glad this is my last season as a ticket holder coz the beautiful game is turning pig ugly.


----------



## MegaSteve (Dec 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			It's a pity they cant support their local team.
		
Click to expand...

Saying you support Margate FC doesn't really have the same aspirational ring to as saying you follow Liverpool FC...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 7, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			No, society is though.  Unfortunately those same bacons frequent football games. Football isnt to blame.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry I wasn’t trying to blame football - society has certainly gone backwards in regards racist behaviour and imo it’s down to the current political situation. 

For a while it seemed football and indeed sport in this country worked hard to eradicate these incidents as much as possible but ever since the referendum and the emergence on UKIP it appears to have come out of the shadows again , and these aren’t young lads, that guy today looks well into his 40’s 

It’s time the punishments were massively increased


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 7, 2019)

Thank God for Watford! Otherwise we’d be in the Everton spot on motd 

🙄


----------



## Dando (Dec 8, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Saying you support Margate FC doesn't really have the same aspirational ring to as saying you follow Liverpool FC...
		
Click to expand...

It also saves the embarrassment of saying you live in Margate


----------



## Captainron (Dec 8, 2019)

I think it time to congratulate Liverpool on their first title in ages. Enjoy the run in boys and well done!!
The next few months are basically a coronation parade.....


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 8, 2019)

Captainron said:



			I think it time to congratulate Liverpool on their first title in ages. Enjoy the run in boys and well done!!
The next few months are basically a coronation parade.....
		
Click to expand...

It’s not. We need at least another 16 wins.


----------



## Captainron (Dec 8, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			It’s not. We need at least another 16 wins.
		
Click to expand...

If you bottle it from here though lar.....
free for all


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 8, 2019)

Captainron said:



			I think it time to congratulate Liverpool on their first title in ages. Enjoy the run in boys and well done!!
The next few months are basically a coronation parade.....
		
Click to expand...

I think we could be in serious danger of having the Liverpool invincibles aswell

They are playing very good football but winning ugly if needed 

Survived injuries to Allison and a suspension 

Only real team that can push them after yesterday Is Leicester .. city have very key injuries 
But on top of that teams have just seemed to work out how to beat them 

Liverpool are a different matter


----------



## Slime (Dec 8, 2019)

Captainron said:



			If you bottle it from here though lar.....
free for all
		
Click to expand...

We can but dream.


----------



## Captainron (Dec 8, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			I think we could be in serious danger of having the Liverpool invincibles aswell

They are playing very good football but winning ugly if needed

Survived injuries to Allison and a suspension

Only real team that can push them after yesterday Is Leicester .. city have very key injuries
But on top of that teams have just seemed to work out how to beat them

Liverpool are a different matter
		
Click to expand...

Ah but there can be no fair play to Leicester if Liverpool contrive to throw this away. If Leicester or anyone else take the title off Liverpool from here it’s because Liverpool bottle it.

I don’t think they will though so I’m ready to say enjoy the run in.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 8, 2019)

Captainron said:



			If you bottle it from here though lar.....
free for all
		
Click to expand...

It’s never won in December, 11pts is only 4 defeats but were playing well and our mentality is on another level. 

Hopefully injuries don’t hinder us but with VAR on our side that won’t matter 😃


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 8, 2019)

How on earth is a player challenging for a ball at a corner not active? Whether he touches it or not?!

Has a rule changed?


----------



## MadAdey (Dec 8, 2019)

Liverpool are looking unstoppable. I think one of the big things is how well the squad is playing. Not played what would be considered the starting 11 in the last 2 games, yet scored 8 goals and picked up 6 points. What I really liked is that we have had 7 different goal scorers, 4 of those would not normally be in the strongest 11. So there are goals from the bench which will be big this month with all these games to play.


----------



## GG26 (Dec 8, 2019)

Clearly still well behind Liverpool, but the gaps to the rest are getting bigger and bigger and it’s such a joy watching LCFC now.  Great win today.  Even when we won the league we had 39 pts after 19 games, we now have 38 after 16.  I suspect that it will take more than 90 to win it and that’s probably beyond us, but need to keep the pressure on and who knows.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 8, 2019)

GG26 said:



			Clearly still well behind Liverpool, but the gaps to the rest are getting bigger and bigger and it’s such a joy watching LCFC now.  Great win today.  Even when we won the league we had 39 pts after 19 games, we now have 38 after 16.  I suspect that it will take more than 90 to win it and that’s probably beyond us, but need to keep the pressure on and who knows.
		
Click to expand...

I mean no offence by this but the football of this season is top trumping the title winning team by a country mile

Some of the football was very much a dull watch and the form by other teams nose dived all at once

This season the football you have played has been breath taking 

It's good to see


----------



## GG26 (Dec 8, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			I mean no offence by this but the football of this season is top trumping the title winning team by a country mile

Some of the football was very much a dull watch and the form by other teams nose dived all at once

This season the football you have played has been breath taking 

It's good to see
		
Click to expand...

I agree, the team now are exciting to watch and, with a couple of exceptions, we are not just grinding out results.  Overall it’s a better team than the title winning one.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 8, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			I think we could be in serious danger of having the Liverpool invincibles aswell

They are playing very good football but winning ugly if needed

Survived injuries to Allison and a suspension

Only real team that can push them after yesterday Is Leicester .. city have very key injuries
But on top of that teams have just seemed to work out how to beat them

Liverpool are a different matter
		
Click to expand...

I was saying the same thing to my PP's this morning. Hard to see who is strong enough to stop them and they are finding ways to get results when not laying well. Not sure even Leicester can do anything, not am I sure their own particular bubble won't burst at some point. Definitely think the PL is done and dusted (7/10 of the last sides at top at Christmas have gone on to win and Liverpool were top the other three tines - and pretty sure whether Klopp says he doesn't look at this stuff he'll be aware) and so for me all about the unbeaten run


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 8, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I was saying the same thing to my PP's this morning. Hard to see who is strong enough to stop them and they are finding ways to get results when not laying well. Not sure even Leicester can do anything, not am I sure their own particular bubble won't burst at some point. Definitely think the PL is done and dusted (7/10 of the last sides at top at Christmas have gone on to win and Liverpool were top the other three tines - and pretty sure whether Klopp says he doesn't look at this stuff he'll be aware) and so for me all about the unbeaten run
		
Click to expand...

I'm clinging onto the hope that ur legendary bad prediction record will come into play here lol


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 8, 2019)

GG26 said:



			I agree, the team now are exciting to watch and, with a couple of exceptions, we are not just grinding out results.  Overall it’s a better team than the title winning one.
		
Click to expand...

Vardy is getting better aswell.. wouldn't believe he is 32 almost 33.. normally you slow down after 30 not speed up


----------



## Kellfire (Dec 8, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Vardy is getting better aswell.. wouldn't believe he is 32 almost 33.. normally you slow down after 30 not speed up
		
Click to expand...

He doesn’t waste energy anymore by chasing everything. Such a simple adaptation but the rewards are amazing.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 8, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			I'm clinging onto the hope that ur legendary bad prediction record will come into play here lol
		
Click to expand...

As a certain Mr Keegan said "I'd love it"

Sadly even my prediction fallibility won't save the day. They could lose a couple of times and still be comfy. I can see all the challengers dropping more points along the way anyway


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 8, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Vardy is getting better aswell.. wouldn't believe he is 32 almost 33.. normally you slow down after 30 not speed up
		
Click to expand...

Vardy is superb , oace is dangerous and he uses his very well, and he can finish very well.

I suspect he is still trying to get over turning down Arsenal though


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Vardy is superb , oace is dangerous and he uses his very well, and he can finish very well.

*I suspect he is still trying to get over turning down Arsenal though*

Click to expand...

😂😂 

It's only injuries that's going to slow him down over the next 18 months or so. He plays once a week with enough recovery time in between games. He's got that much pace even if he does start slowing down, he'll still be quicker than most.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 8, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			😂😂

It's only injuries that's going to slow him down over the next 18 months or so. He plays once a week with enough recovery time in between games. He's got that much pace even if he does start slowing down, he'll still be quicker than most.
		
Click to expand...

Think Rogers will manage him conservatively. He's not daft and sure Vardy will know himself he can't play every game. Given the talent and age of the England front line I can't see him getting back into that squad again though


----------



## fundy (Dec 8, 2019)

seems the delight in the front row of the city fans yesterday was called Anthony Burke and has been arrested today by GMP


Social media has its downfalls, ensuring idiots like this are identified and dealt with not one of them!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 8, 2019)

fundy said:



			seems the delight in the front row of the city fans yesterday was called Anthony Burke and has been arrested today by GMP


Social media has its downfalls, ensuring idiots like this are identified and dealt with not one of them!
		
Click to expand...

Good to see 

Lots were also sending tweets to the company he works for as well 
Understand a few others have been given bans by the club


----------



## fundy (Dec 8, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Good to see 

Lots were also sending tweets to the company he works for as well 
Understand a few others have been given bans by the club
		
Click to expand...

some talk that the wrong guy with that name being blamed too on all accounts


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 8, 2019)

fundy said:



			some talk that the wrong guy with that name being blamed too on all accounts
		
Click to expand...

Now that’s when it goes wrong and it wouldn’t be the first time mistaken identity on social media has caused an innocent pain.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 8, 2019)

fundy said:



			seems the delight in the front row of the city fans yesterday was called Anthony Burke and has been arrested today by GMP


Social media has its downfalls, ensuring idiots like this are identified and dealt with not one of them!
		
Click to expand...

But we now need the courts to take firm action. Lifetime bans don't solve the problem. If people were to get hit heftily in the pocket and have to explain to their family why there isn't cash for Christmas presents for the kids it may start to get the message across that this is unacceptable. I wonder what his employers will think of the situation?


----------



## fundy (Dec 8, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But we now need the courts to take firm action. Lifetime bans don't solve the problem. If people were to get hit heftily in the pocket and have to explain to their family why there isn't cash for Christmas presents for the kids it may start to get the message across that this is unacceptable. I wonder what his employers will think of the situation?
		
Click to expand...


time for the FA to take action too, maybe start by enforcing Sterlings recommended penalty onto his own club, maybe save it for next year too for full pain lol

fans going to be more self policed if theres a danger theyre damaging their sides chances too


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 8, 2019)

fundy said:



			time for the FA to take action too, maybe start by enforcing Sterlings recommended penalty onto his own club, maybe save it for next year too for full pain lol

fans going to be more self policed if theres a danger theyre damaging their sides chances too
		
Click to expand...

Definitely fans are going to be aware and shop idiots and that's great. Last thing we want is to see any form of stadium closure. Players of course have their own responsibilities. It is a problem I sadly see getting more and more column inches and more and more cases coming to light every week. I have no answer as to how to solve it but it seems to be a plague.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 8, 2019)

fundy said:



			time for the FA to take action too, maybe start by enforcing Sterlings recommended penalty onto his own club, maybe save it for next year too for full pain lol

fans going to be more self policed if theres a danger theyre damaging their sides chances too
		
Click to expand...

Considering how vocal Sterling has been in recent months he just stood and looked away whilst his captain went over to the crowd.


----------



## fundy (Dec 8, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Considering how vocal Sterling has been in recent months he just stood and looked away whilst his captain went over to the crowd.
		
Click to expand...

youre either the poster boy or not.........


----------



## fundy (Dec 8, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Definitely fans are going to be aware and shop idiots and that's great. Last thing we want is to see any form of stadium closure. Players of course have their own responsibilities. It is a problem I sadly see getting more and more column inches and more and more cases coming to light every week. I have no answer as to how to solve it but it seems to be a plague.
		
Click to expand...


have no problem with sides being forced to play in front of empty stadiums personally


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 8, 2019)

There are always going to be people like this ,unfortunately it’s a fact of life .
If there was an answer they would have found it by now.
Empty stadiums is a big step that punishes 99.9% innocent fans.
But I do think it would work.

The FA have bottled it for to long.
After all the complaining in the England games of racism I wonder what they will think is a suitable punishment.?
My guess a pitiful fine????


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 8, 2019)

fundy said:



			have no problem with sides being forced to play in front of empty stadiums personally
		
Click to expand...

Nice to see Arsenal getting ahead of the curve with the Europa game the other week.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 8, 2019)

fundy said:



			seems the delight in the front row of the city fans yesterday was called Anthony Burke and has been arrested today by GMP


Social media has its downfalls, ensuring idiots like this are identified and dealt with not one of them!
		
Click to expand...

I saw a report earlier that said his defence is that he wasn't making monkey gestures but was simply trying to put his hands in his pockets.


----------



## fundy (Dec 8, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Nice to see Arsenal getting ahead of the curve with the Europa game the other week. 

Click to expand...


damn, I backed Stu at 2/5 for that post


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 9, 2019)

So what has happened to City this season? From the outside, not much has changed, but they have gone from setting records, to being a bit average.


----------



## Fish (Dec 9, 2019)

The Man City Primate impersonator is pleading not guilty and stating he was just 'putting his hands in his pants', maybe you do that in Manchester, bouncing your arms whilst pursing your lips and uttering Ooo-Ooo-Ooo


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 9, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			So what has happened to City this season? From the outside, not much has changed, but they have gone from setting records, to being a bit average.
		
Click to expand...

Injuries. Laporte out entire season almost 

Kompany Gone

Lack of decent back ups in defence


----------



## Junior (Dec 9, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think there will be lots of emissions in Manchester that weekend, if we win it.

Click to expand...

I could log off all social media, barracade my front door and triple wrap my house in sound proof materials...........i'd still here you lot when you win it


----------



## Kellfire (Dec 9, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Think Rogers will manage him conservatively. He's not daft and sure Vardy will know himself he can't play every game. Given the talent and age of the England front line I can't see him getting back into that squad again though
		
Click to expand...

He’d walk into the England squad and for me the starting XI but he isn’t because he’s retired from England.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 9, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Injuries. Laporte out entire season almost 

Kompany Gone

Lack of decent back ups in defence
		
Click to expand...

I actually think pep is too blame personally. He’s spent a fortune on that defence but is unwilling to change from he’s ways. There comes a point where you maybe have to sacrifice a little bit of style for results. He sticks to playing his way which is fine with all your players are available. But playing Fernandinho in defence then tales him away form the role he’s best at leaving himself and whoever he partners exposed.


----------



## Junior (Dec 9, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I actually think pep is too blame personally. He’s spent a fortune on that defence but is unwilling to change from he’s ways. There comes a point where you maybe have to sacrifice a little bit of style for results. He sticks to playing his way which is fine with all your players are available. *But playing Fernandinho in defence *then tales him away form the role he’s best at leaving himself and whoever he partners exposed.
		
Click to expand...

This.  Citeh's best holding midfielder and he's got him at CB.  Pep never replaced Kompany.  There were rumours about Jonny Evans in the Summer but that fell by the way side.  Hindsight it might have been a very shrewd move.   I actually can't name a defender who has actually got better under Pep at Citeh.   De bruyn and Silva have also gone off the boil (compared to past exploits), its just a perfect storm for them.......  Now if would only happen to the other noisy neighbors, then we could all be crap and inconsistent together


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 9, 2019)

Junior said:



			This.  Citeh's best holding midfielder and he's got him at CB.  Pep never replaced Kompany.  There were rumours about Jonny Evans in the Summer but that fell by the way side.  Hindsight it might have been a very shrewd move.   I actually can't name a defender who has actually got better under Pep at Citeh.   De bruyn and Silva have also gone off the boil (compared to past exploits), its just a perfect storm for them.......  Now if would only happen to the other noisy neighbors, then we could all be crap and inconsistent together 

Click to expand...

I'm not sure he improves many defenders anywhere. 

He will make them all look classy on the ball, but imo he sees his strategy as the defence. Have the ball 80% and then any old defender to sweep up.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 9, 2019)

Watching City play though this season the keeper is making his share of good saves.
In some games only for him or better finishing,they would have dropped more points.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 9, 2019)

Fancy West Ham to turn Arsenal over tonight.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 9, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Fancy West Ham to turn Arsenal over tonight.
		
Click to expand...

Would it even be a shock?


----------



## Wolf (Dec 9, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Would it even be a shock?
		
Click to expand...

Even us arsenal fans woulsnt be shocked if we got properly turned over right now


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2019)

Sp rumours are that Everton are looking at Emery 😂😂😂😂 please be true


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 9, 2019)

Marcelino in the frame according to reports too https://www.skysports.com/football/transfer-paper-talk-regional


----------



## Jensen (Dec 9, 2019)

Fish said:



			The Man City Primate impersonator is pleading not guilty and stating he was just 'putting his hands in his pants', maybe you do that in Manchester, bouncing your arms whilst pursing your lips and uttering Ooo-Ooo-Ooo 

Click to expand...

Or he was impersonating one of the Gallagher brothers


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 9, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Would it even be a shock?
		
Click to expand...

Probably not, West Ham need the 1st goal and Arsenal will fold like a deck of cards


----------



## paddyc (Dec 9, 2019)

Jesus this game is dull. i thought with a more attacking line up Arsenal  might be more adventurous. 0-0 seens the most likely result here.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 9, 2019)

paddyc said:



			Jesus this game is dull. i thought with a more attacking line up Arsenal  might be more adventurous. 0-0 seens the most likely result here.
		
Click to expand...

I meant unlikely!


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 9, 2019)

Don't get why they needed to check that goal for so long .. how many times did you need to see it hitting his head

Maybe the var guy is a spurs fan and is enjoying toying with arsenal fans


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 9, 2019)

And that VAR decision is what is killing the game. Don't get me wrong it's the right decision. But why does it take so long. Every player thought it was a goal. Who argued. Yet the armchair fans have seen Lord knows any number of replays on the box. But the match going fans, it's purgatory. How do they know what VAR is looking for.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 9, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			And that VAR decision is what is killing the game. Don't get m wrong it's the right decision. But why does it take so long. Every player thought it was a goal. Who argued. Yet the armchair fans have seen Lord knows any number of replays on the box. But the match going fans, it's purgatory. How do they know what VAR is looking for.
		
Click to expand...

VAR don’t even know what they’re looking for!!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 9, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			And that VAR decision is what is killing the game. Don't get m wrong it's the right decision. But why does it take so long. Every player thought it was a goal. Who argued. Yet the armchair fans have seen Lord knows any number of replays on the box. But the match going fans, it's purgatory. How do they know what VAR is looking for.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree. On a separate note very poor from Maitland-Niles to turn his back. Man up and take one in the chops or nuts. Might even have stopped the goal


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2019)

Geez West Ham are awful, but at least their players care. We're awful and the majority of our players just couldnt give a s***. Too good to go down and all that garbage, on form were now comfortably the worst side in the league! Aubam been bailing us out and even he seems to have had enough and barely ran a yard so far tonight, will have his pick of clubs in January and we'll be even further in it. Whilst the frauds like Xhaka keep picking up their 100k+ a week


----------



## adam6177 (Dec 9, 2019)

A guy I work with is a life long arsenal fan.... He said last week that he fears they're in a relegation battle. I laughed and said don't be silly.

Maybe he wasn't being silly.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 9, 2019)

fundy said:



			Geez West Ham are awful, but at least their players care. We're awful and the majority of our players just couldnt give a s***. Too good to go down and all that garbage, on form were now comfortably the worst side in the league! Aubam been bailing us out and even he seems to have had enough and barely ran a yard so far tonight, will have his pick of clubs in January and we'll be even further in it. Whilst the frauds like Xhaka keep picking up their 100k+ a week
		
Click to expand...

As poor as West Ham are at least they’re winning 2nd balls. 

Whoever gets the Job next has a real job on their hands that’ll take 5years to fix. Arsene’s true legacy.


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			A guy I work with is a life long arsenal fan.... He said last week that he fears they're in a relegation battle. I laughed and said don't be silly.

Maybe he wasn't being silly.
		
Click to expand...


been having a similar chat with a spurs fan, worrying when hes the one saying we'll be fine!!!!!


----------



## adam6177 (Dec 9, 2019)

fundy said:



			been having a similar chat with a spurs fan, worrying when hes the one saying we'll be fine!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

There we go... Maybe each time I have a pop at arsenal they'll score.


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			There we go... Maybe each time I have a pop at arsenal they'll score.
		
Click to expand...

keep em coming


----------



## adam6177 (Dec 9, 2019)

fundy said:



			keep em coming 

Click to expand...

Auba has been non existent so far..... 😁


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			Auba has been non existent so far..... 😁
		
Click to expand...


sort that assist out, top stuff sir


----------



## Bazzatron (Dec 9, 2019)

How the hell have they turned this around?


----------



## adam6177 (Dec 9, 2019)

fundy said:



			sort that assist out, top stuff sir 

Click to expand...

Jesus, maybe I'm in control here.... 😁😂


----------



## Wolf (Dec 9, 2019)

God at the moment we really are boring to watch, create sod all and couldn't defend if we tried


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			Jesus, maybe I'm in control here.... 😁😂
		
Click to expand...


if you can sort out 2-3 or 2-4 theres a beer or two in it


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 9, 2019)

This playing out from the back scares me.

Oh, and Auba, done nothing. Except score.


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2019)

When you think you support the worst form side in the Prem and West Ham come along and say hold my beer haha


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 9, 2019)

And an assist. But apart from that, what have the Romans ever done?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 9, 2019)

Well there's a shock. Great effort from Pepe who has been the best Arsenal player and now a third for Arsenal. Where have West Ham gone in the 2nd half


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			Auba has been non existent so far..... 😁
		
Click to expand...


move over Homie, theres a new kid in town


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 9, 2019)

fundy said:



			move over Homie, theres a new kid in town 

Click to expand...

Going for an Arsenal away win 4-2


----------



## Wolf (Dec 9, 2019)

Well that escalated quickly 😂😊😊


----------



## paddyc (Dec 9, 2019)

wtf i never saw this coming. suddenly we are looking like world beaters.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2019)

😂 how bad are West Ham if Arsenal are beating them comfortably at home 

Really does look like my predictions of West Ham going down was a year too early 

How funny would it be to see them in the championship with all that money spent and that lovely stadium 😂😂😂


----------



## adam6177 (Dec 9, 2019)

fundy said:



			move over Homie, theres a new kid in town 

Click to expand...

Ok let's see how stupid I can make this:

Xhaka is garbage, but he can strike a ball......


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 9, 2019)

Pepe, get up you prat.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 9, 2019)

Xhaka been playing with concussion all game taken them 80 mins to check him over.


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2019)

paddyc said:



			Xhaka been playing with concussion all game taken them 80 mins to check him over.
		
Click to expand...

no one could tell the difference from normal!


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2019)

Ive learnt an important lesson tonight! When things are going badly there is always someone worse off than you, and you should always think of those whose plight is worse, especially at this time of year, so keep an eye out for any West Ham fans this xmas


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 9, 2019)

Woeful from West Ham especially as the home side. No fight and once the second (decently taken admittedly) went in and the look even more fragile than Arsenal.


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 9, 2019)

Fish said:



			The Man City Primate impersonator is pleading not guilty and stating he was just 'putting his hands in his pants', maybe you do that in Manchester, bouncing your arms whilst pursing your lips and uttering Ooo-Ooo-Ooo 

Click to expand...

Bro, you support THE most racist club in the country. 

Standing on dodgy ground imo


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 9, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Woeful from West Ham especially as the home side. No fight and once the second (decently taken admittedly) went in and the look even more fragile than Arsenal.
		
Click to expand...

Disagree homer, for 60 odd minutes they were the better side, conceding when they did  hurt them. Arsenal were awful for that period.


----------



## Piece (Dec 9, 2019)

West Ham don't half know how to empty a stadium quickly. Impressive.


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 9, 2019)

If lpool came in for Aubameyang. 
how much?
Would they sell?
sell to us? 

I’m saying a £28-35mil bid. His desire for trophies. Relationship with Klopp, Only 18 months left. He’s 31 (I think)

Maybe it all adds up 🤷‍♂️

Gotta be worth an ask...


----------



## Wolf (Dec 9, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			If lpool came in for Aubameyang.
how much?
Would they sell?
sell to us?

I’m saying a £28-35mil bid. His desire for trophies. Relationship with Klopp, Only 18 months left. He’s 31 (I think)

Maybe it all adds up 🤷‍♂️

Gotta be worth an ask...
		
Click to expand...

We sold Van Persie to UTD, Sanchez to UTD, Cole to Chelsea etc... If Liverpool wanted him, He wanted to go there and the bid was acceptable i have no doubt our board would  sell to anyone.


----------



## fundy (Dec 9, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			If lpool came in for Aubameyang. 
how much?
Would they sell?
sell to us? 

I’m saying a £28-35mil bid. His desire for trophies. Relationship with Klopp, Only 18 months left. He’s 31 (I think)

Maybe it all adds up 🤷‍♂️

Gotta be worth an ask...
		
Click to expand...


Madrid are talking about 60m plus a player, yeah of course well sell to Liverpool for 30m lol


----------



## Wolf (Dec 9, 2019)

fundy said:



			Madrid are talking about 60m plus a player, yeah of course well sell to Liverpool for 30m lol
		
Click to expand...

It'll be 60m plus a shit Madrid B team player we haven't heard of but our board will snap it up and he'll turn out to be YaYa Sonogos left footed twin😂


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 9, 2019)

Wolf said:



			It'll be 60m plus a shit Madrid B team player we haven't heard of but our board will snap it up and he'll turn out to be YaYa Sonogos left footed twin😂
		
Click to expand...

I heard it was Jovic, he's done naff all for em but did cost 60m in the summer.


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 9, 2019)

fundy said:



			Madrid are talking about 60m plus a player, yeah of course well sell to Liverpool for 30m lol
		
Click to expand...

Ok, I didn’t know about Madrid so obvs that tips the scales. 

However, Madrid aren’t great atm. 

I wouldn’t want us to go all out (60 mil) on account of his age, but still think it’s a viable option, both for him an us


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 9, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			If lpool came in for Aubameyang.
how much?
Would they sell?
sell to us?

I’m saying a £28-35mil bid. His desire for trophies. Relationship with Klopp, Only 18 months left. He’s 31 (I think)

Maybe it all adds up 🤷‍♂️

Gotta be worth an ask...
		
Click to expand...

Doubt he'd accept being behind Divock Origi  on the bench.


----------



## Wolf (Dec 9, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I heard it was Jovic, he's done naff all for em but did cost 60m in the summer.
		
Click to expand...

I'd heard the same, would seem an odd deal if its true though, 60m plus a player recently bought for 60m so effectively total deal of 120m for  a player in his 30s and only a year left on his contract. Can't see it somehow even if he hasn't pulled up trees it doesn't make financial sense. Unless they're proposing a straight swap.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 9, 2019)

Wolf said:



			I'd heard the same, would seem an odd deal if its true though, 60m plus a player recently bought for 60m so effectively total deal of 120m for  a player in his 30s and only a year left on his contract. Can't see it somehow even if he hasn't pulled up trees it doesn't make financial sense. Unless they're proposing a straight swap.
		
Click to expand...

Latest reports are they need to raise 158m euros or they'll fall foul of ffp. Think it's paper talk / agent looking to generate a move.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 9, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Latest reports are they need to raise 158m euros or *they'll fall foul of ffp*. Think it's paper talk / agent looking to generate a move.
		
Click to expand...

Doubt they're bothered about a €350,000 fine.


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 9, 2019)

Just watching klopps pre match interview, it got a bit heated! The word ‘fucking’ was said both in German and English 😮

I didn’t know the German language doesnt have a word for fucking  😆


----------



## Wolf (Dec 9, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Just watching klopps pre match interview, it got a bit heated! The word ‘fucking’ was said both in German and English 😮

I didn’t know the German language doesnt have a word for fucking  😆
		
Click to expand...

It does have a word "ficken" just that it sounds the same 😂


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 9, 2019)

Wolf said:



			It does have a word "ficken" just that it sounds the same 😂
		
Click to expand...

ficken sounds the same to me bro 😆


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 9, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Doubt they're bothered about a €350,000 fine.
		
Click to expand...

I thought FFP in Europe had consequences like bans? Not that i can imagine uefa have the balls to ban Real.


----------



## Wolf (Dec 9, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			ficken sounds the same to me bro 😆
		
Click to expand...

Exactly 😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 9, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I thought FFP in Europe had consequences like bans? Not that i can imagine uefa have the balls to ban Real.
		
Click to expand...

They do apparently. 

Spot on 2nd sentence. 

Didnt City get a €350,000 ban for FFP recently or gave I made it up?


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 9, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			They do apparently.

Spot on 2nd sentence.

Didnt City get a €350,000 ban for FFP recently or gave I made it up?
		
Click to expand...

Google tells me that theirs was for misleading UEFA with regards to sponsorship deals. But it hasn't concluded yet. The had their appeal thrown out in november.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 10, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Google tells me that theirs was for misleading UEFA with regards to sponsorship deals. But it hasn't concluded yet. The had their appeal thrown out in november.
		
Click to expand...

Which has a connection to FFP. Do you reckon City will get thrown out of the CL? Nah me neither.


----------



## Fish (Dec 10, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Bro, you support THE most racist club in the country.

Standing on dodgy ground imo
		
Click to expand...

😂 What a ficken knob 😂


----------



## Fish (Dec 10, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Or he was impersonating one of the Gallagher brothers
		
Click to expand...

Didn't have a Stone Island parker on so lost all credibility...


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 10, 2019)

Well well well that evening started with such promise and ended with the usual disappointment 

Mrs went out after work and my mum was out yest so had my daughter all day looking forward to my evening.. (first mistake) go 1-0 up.. should be about 2 up maybe if we had punished arsenal's mucking about at the back ..

Half time comes.. right shower before second half so ready to go bed early start .. Mrs comes home full of stories from her evening talking to me.. we let one in.. think ok just carry on they haven't looked good at all (neither had we but they looked worse) next thing they turn on the class and it's 3

Wonder how long MP has left. I like him personally but I'm not sure the players are responding to him


----------



## need_my_wedge (Dec 10, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			This playing out from the back scares me.
		
Click to expand...


Been saying that since they started doing it, they just can't do it, and should stop poste haste.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2019)

Wolf said:



			I'd heard the same, would seem an odd deal if its true though, 60m plus a player recently bought for 60m so effectively total deal of 120m for  a player in his 30s and only a year left on his contract. Can't see it somehow even if he hasn't pulled up trees it doesn't make financial sense. Unless they're proposing a straight swap.
		
Click to expand...

Just football politics imo.
If someone wants your player there’s always a higher bid from someone else.
They are pre empting a bid from clubs.
That’s not good for Arsenal.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 10, 2019)

need_my_wedge said:



			Been saying that since they started doing it, they just can't do it, and should stop poste haste.
		
Click to expand...

That applies to a whole host of clubs. It was clear on Saturday that Big Dunc had ditched that philosophy for Everton and we were much the better for it. It did not mean hump it forward every time but it did mean don't be so blinkin obvious and bring trouble on yourself. When team play Arsenal, Everton, Southampton are obvious as well, all they have to do is pile forward and pressure the keeper and defenders. No need to worry about the empty midfield behind you as they never pop it over your head. We mixed it up on Saturday and suddenly Chelsea had to stretch themselves out and we had more space and made fewer stupid mistakes at the back, who the hell thought Michael Keane could play like Beckenbauer and it would end well? Too many coaches get stuck on a philosophy and it does not work for every team all of the time.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 10, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That applies to a whole host of clubs. It was clear on Saturday that Big Dunc had ditched that philosophy for Everton and we were much the better for it. It did not mean hump it forward every time but it did mean don't be so blinkin obvious and bring trouble on yourself. When team play Arsenal, Everton, Southampton are obvious as well, all they have to do is pile forward and pressure the keeper and defenders. No need to worry about the empty midfield behind you as they never pop it over your head. We mixed it up on Saturday and suddenly Chelsea had to stretch themselves out and we had more space and made fewer stupid mistakes at the back, who the hell thought Michael Keane could play like Beckenbauer and it would end well? Too many coaches get stuck on a philosophy and it does not work for every team all of the time.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree it’s great if you have the players but most don’t.


----------



## Bazzatron (Dec 10, 2019)

The bloke from arsenal fan tv and Simon Jordan having a right old ding dong on Talksport if anyone has chance to listen. On now.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 10, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			The bloke from arsenal fan tv and Simon Jordan having a right old ding dong on Talksport if anyone has chance to listen. On now.
		
Click to expand...

Simon Jordan is the only person I can think of who has a higher opinion of themselves than Piers Morgan.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 10, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That applies to a whole host of clubs. It was clear on Saturday that Big Dunc had ditched that philosophy for Everton and we were much the better for it. It did not mean hump it forward every time but it did mean don't be so blinkin obvious and bring trouble on yourself. When team play Arsenal, Everton, Southampton are obvious as well, all they have to do is pile forward and pressure the keeper and defenders. No need to worry about the empty midfield behind you as they never pop it over your head. We mixed it up on Saturday and suddenly Chelsea had to stretch themselves out and we had more space and made fewer stupid mistakes at the back, who the hell thought Michael Keane could play like Beckenbauer and it would end well? Too many coaches get stuck on a philosophy and it does not work for every team all of the time.
		
Click to expand...

Agree with this 100%. Even at Spurs under Poch we forced this playing out from the back rubbish, Lloris is useless with his feet so it failed miserably. If you've got Ederson/Alisson and some class on the ball centre backs then fair enough. Anyone else - it's not possible to gauge really but I'd love to see a comparison of how many good attacks it created vs how many chances on your own goal it cost you. I think for most it would be in the negative.


----------



## Wolf (Dec 10, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Simon Jordan is the only person I can think of who has a higher opinion of themselves than Piers Morgan.
		
Click to expand...

He does havr a high opinion of himself but having just listened ti him and the prat from  ATV, I'd agree with Jordan entirely, each time he made or tried to make a point the pleb from ATV just behaved like a child throwing a strop shouting over him and claiming to be better than him in every way


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 10, 2019)

Wolf said:



			He does havr a high opinion of himself but having just listened ti him and the prat from  ATV, I'd agree with Jordan entirely, each time he made or tried to make a point the pleb from ATV just behaved like a child throwing a strop shouting over him and claiming to be better than him in every way
		
Click to expand...

I didn't listen to this particular piece to be fair, at work now. Mine was more of a general point about him, self appointed expert in his field, ego the size of a small country.


----------



## Jensen (Dec 10, 2019)

I 


Lord Tyrion said:



			Simon Jordan is the only person I can think of who has a higher opinion of themselves than Piers Morgan.
		
Click to expand...

We were in the same year at school together, and briefly knocked around together. He was much the same then.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 10, 2019)

Jensen said:



			I


We were in the same year at school together, and briefly knocked around together. He was much the same then.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, he hasn't done bad for himself. He's just a giant door handle 🤣.

You may be poorer but I'd choose you to play a round with over him every time 👍.


----------



## sam85 (Dec 10, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			To be fair, he hasn't done bad for himself. He's just a giant door handle 🤣.

You may be poorer but I'd choose you to play a round with over him every time 👍.
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure I'm in the minority here but I actually quite like Simon Jordan on talk sport 😳


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 10, 2019)

Do you think Klopp is worried? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50617925


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2019)

Nice professional job tonight against a dangerous team - some clinical finishes and some not so 😂 , top of the group 

Potential opponents 

Real Madrid
Atletico Madrid/Bayer
Inter Milan/Dortmund 
Zenit /Lyon
Shakter/Zagreb


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 10, 2019)

Good result from Liverpool on what looked a real banana skin type of tie. I thought Salah was top class again and best I've seen him play for a while


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 10, 2019)

sam85 said:



			I'm sure I'm in the minority here but I actually quite like Simon Jordan on talk sport 😳
		
Click to expand...

😱😱😱😱😱. Ha ha, each to their own 👍


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 10, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Nice professional job tonight against a dangerous team - some clinical finishes and some not so 😂 , top of the group

Potential opponents

Real Madrid
Atletico Madrid/Bayer
Inter Milan/Dortmund
Zenit /Lyon
Shakter/Zagreb
		
Click to expand...

#prayforabigclub 🤣


----------



## Jensen (Dec 10, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			To be fair, he hasn't done bad for himself. He's just a giant door handle 🤣.

You may be poorer but I'd choose you to play a round with over him every time 👍.
		
Click to expand...

He's done extremely well for himself, and I too would rather a round of golf with you at Burgham


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 10, 2019)

sam85 said:



			I'm sure I'm in the minority here but I actually quite like Simon Jordan on talk sport 😳
		
Click to expand...

Same here, I only listen to him now and again, but he brings an insight into the club/chairman side that we dont generally get to see elsewhere.

I dont always agree what he says, but it seems like he puts a bit of thought into it and doesnt just talk crap to ding the controversy meter on TS the way lots of others do. Very erudite.

Ok he loves himself and thinks he's the sax player in Spandau, but as a guest, I always listen in.


----------



## Wolf (Dec 10, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Same here, I only listen to him now and again, but he brings an insight into the club/chairman side that we dont generally get to see elsewhere.

I dont always agree what he says, but it seems like he puts a bit of thought into it and doesnt just talk crap to ding the controversy meter on TS the way lots of others do. Very erudite.

Ok he loves himself and thinks he's the sax player in Spandau, but as a guest, I always listen in.
		
Click to expand...

Think that sums it up for me as well, i enjoy listening to him as he puts thought into what he's saying and will often defend people even if its going against the grain of the stories reported and vice versa will call them out if needed where others don't.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 11, 2019)

Ancelotti is up for grabs. Surely a perfect fit at Arsenal?


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 11, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ancelotti is up for grabs. Surely a perfect fit at Arsenal?
		
Click to expand...

Surely not. No thanks. Worse than Emery in my view.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 11, 2019)

RIP The Bald Eagle Jim Smith


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 11, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Surely not. No thanks. Worse than Emery in my view.
		
Click to expand...

Interesting, I have always seen him as a top end, well respected manager. His record is pretty special. Do you think he is past it now or are you just not a fan?


----------



## Wolf (Dec 11, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ancelotti is up for grabs. Surely a perfect fit at Arsenal?
		
Click to expand...

Of the options available and the ones we've supposedly been linked with so far, right now id take Ancelotti even if it just steadies the ship 



murphthemog said:



			Surely not. No thanks. Worse than Emery in my view.
		
Click to expand...

The man did the double with Chelsea and is a perennial winner, he's not everyone cup of tea but he can't be worse than Dick Emery


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 11, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Interesting, I have always seen him as a top end, well respected manager. His record is pretty special. Do you think he is past it now or are you just not a fan?
		
Click to expand...

I can see how he'd do a job but I wouldn't give him a long term deal. I wouldn't see him as the answer for Arsenal but I think he'd get them playing better and pushing towards a Europa League spot. I still don't them getting a CL spot


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 11, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I can see how he'd do a job but I wouldn't give him a long term deal. I wouldn't see him as the answer for Arsenal but I think he'd get them playing better and pushing towards a Europa League spot. I still don't them getting a CL spot
		
Click to expand...

His recent career is not one of long term stays but he largely delivers. He only needs to be at Arsenal for a couple of years, steady the ship, start putting a new squad together. The idea of giving any manager a long term contract now is plain silly.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 11, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			His recent career is not one of long term stays but he largely delivers. He only needs to be at Arsenal for a couple of years, steady the ship, start putting a new squad together. The idea of giving any manager a long term contract now is plain silly.
		
Click to expand...

I agree but clubs do it and then pay millions out in compo when they sack them


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2019)

Ancelotti is a top class manager , his record is there to be stood up against the best 

Arsenal should be onto him right now and getting him in - there is no better on the market right now 

as for Everton - Moyes will go in . 

He may win them the title next year but if not they should at least go back up through the playoffs


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 11, 2019)

As was Wengers record, but at some point, the game moves on. I think Ancelotti's time has gone. Some one new please.

I don't think we can afford his wages anyway.


----------



## Wolf (Dec 11, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			As was Wengers record, but at some point, the game moves on. I think Ancelotti's time has gone. Some one new please.

I don't think we can afford his wages anyway.
		
Click to expand...

If the media are to be believed we will save on wages anyway because apparently we're looking at Paolo Sosa 🙄


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 11, 2019)

Sousa is a down grade on a down grade. May be better than Espirito Santo, but that isn't saying much.
Don't fancy Viera either. Hardly rewriting the book at Lille.


----------



## Wolf (Dec 11, 2019)

I'd rather have Nuno than Sousa if that were the choice. I certainly don't want Vieira at all if he got appointed its done on sentiment and not what he can bring.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Sousa is a down grade on a down grade. May be better than Espirito Santo, but that isn't saying much.
Don't fancy Viera either. Hardly rewriting the book at Lille.
		
Click to expand...

If you don’t want Ancelotti which I find amazing as he is a success anywhere he goes and still is now - who do you want ?


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 11, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			#prayforabigclub 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Saw yesterday that newcastle are giving away half season tickets to existing season ticket holders. Has support got that bad under Ashley 😳


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If you don’t want Ancelotti which I find amazing as he is a success anywhere he goes and still is now - who do you want ?
		
Click to expand...

Nagelsmann is my favourite, but then Ten Haag, Jesse Marsch, Marco Rose, and Jurgen Klopp. Can't see the last one coming. Or any of them really.

Would be ok with Arteta, or may be Poch.


----------



## Wolf (Dec 11, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Nagelsmann is my favourite, but then Ten Haag, Jesse Marsch, Marco Rose, and Jurgen Klopp. Can't see the last one coming. Or any of them really.

Would be ok with Arteta, or may be Poch.
		
Click to expand...

I'd agree with your first 2 choices as being a good direction, even with Poch as well. 

But not the rest, Klopp would be great but its a dream. I really wouldn't want Arteta at all especially as his first role. He may be under Peps wing but there's nothing there to me that suggests it would be a good appointment.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 11, 2019)

I particularly don't want a manager who is available. I want the best candidate. If it means ripping him from a team that doesn't want to lose their manager, so be it.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 11, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Saw yesterday that newcastle are giving away half season tickets to existing season ticket holders. Has support got that bad under Ashley 😳
		
Click to expand...

The official figure for attendances recently is around the 46k mark, capacity is 52k. Bearing in mind those will include season ticket holders who are not going and the club are seeing some big empty seating areas for the first time in a very long time. Don't underestimate how disliked Ashley is up here and he has just chipped away at fans year after year. They are not well organised enough to make a real difference, just don't buy a damned shirt next season people, but natural apathy has taken over.

The numbers are still good but no club likes to see empty seats and this makes some sense to fill the ground again. It wont actually be that many tickets but it does show that the casual fan has turned away from the club right now as they are not selling spare tickets normally. It is actually a bit harsh on Steve Bruce who is piggy in the middle here. He is doing an equal job to Benitez but he is just not getting the same love at this point.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Nagelsmann is my favourite, but then Ten Haag, Jesse Marsch, Marco Rose, and Jurgen Klopp. Can't see the last one coming. Or any of them really.

Would be ok with Arteta, or may be Poch.
		
Click to expand...

The problem is those people you mention are all at clubs that are doing far better than Arsenal and currently would be a step down 

Also none of them have the level of success Ancelotti has 

They are all also at clubs with different levels of expectations as well 

Nagelsmann has just gone to RB Leipzig 
Ten Haag has had one good season at Ajax with a once in a generation squad 
Marsch has just gone to RB Salzburg and his first job in Europe as manager
Rose - another who has just gone to a new club 

They are all exciting young managers who have shown potential but none established yet - are Arsenal looking to give someone time like those or someone established 

As for Klopp 😂😂😂 

Ancelotti or Allergri are two outstanding managers available in the market - Arsenal should be straight at either 

They are both far better managers than those other young guys you mention ( well apart from Klopp 😉 )


----------



## Bazzatron (Dec 11, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Sousa is a down grade on a down grade. *May be better than Espirito Santo, *but that isn't saying much.
Don't fancy Viera either. Hardly rewriting the book at Lille.
		
Click to expand...

Hope the club as a whole keep thinking that.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The problem is those people you mention are all at clubs that are doing far better than Arsenal and currently would be a step down

Also none of them have the level of success Ancelotti has

They are all also at clubs with different levels of expectations as well

Nagelsmann has just gone to RB Leipzig
Ten Haag has had one good season at Ajax with a once in a generation squad
Marsch has just gone to RB Salzburg and his first job in Europe as manager
Rose - another who has just gone to a new club

They are all exciting young managers who have shown potential but none established yet - are Arsenal looking to give someone time like those or someone established

As for Klopp 😂😂😂

Ancelotti or Allergri are two outstanding managers available in the market - Arsenal should be straight at either

They are both far better managers than those other young guys you mention ( well apart from Klopp 😉 )
		
Click to expand...

But that is my whole point. I want some one young, and exciting. I don't want old establishment, know what you are going to get, etc.
I want to be entertained. No club has a right to win stuff, and most won't, so what's left? Entertainment, excitement, sauce.
I know what I will get watching an Ancelotti team.


----------



## Slime (Dec 11, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			But that is my whole point. *I want some one young, and exciting.* I don't want old establishment, know what you are going to get, etc.
*I want to be entertained. *No club has a right to win stuff, and most won't, so what's left? Entertainment, excitement, sauce.
I know what I will get watching an Ancelotti team.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry Murph, Ole's already spoken for.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			But that is my whole point. I want some one young, and exciting. I don't want old establishment, know what you are going to get, etc.
I want to be entertained. No club has a right to win stuff, and most won't, so what's left? Entertainment, excitement, sauce.
I know what I will get watching an Ancelotti team.
		
Click to expand...

Have you ever seen Ancelottis teams play ? 

Do you think they are defensive or something ? He is a winner - title in four different leagues , CL winner 4 times I think - always improves a team - he would get Arsenal back into the top 4 and then build to win things. He is the type of manager that Arsenal have needed for a number of years now. 

Someone might be young and exciting in one league where the expectations are lower but in the Prem ? Not so much - Emery was fairly young and was exciting with Seville 

If Arsenal miss out on Ancelotti then the club will suffer for a good number of years


----------



## Wolf (Dec 11, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Have you ever seen Ancelottis teams play ?

Do you think they are defensive or something ? He is a winner - title in four different leagues , CL winner 4 times I think - always improves a team - he would get Arsenal back into the top 4 and then build to win things. He is the type of manager that Arsenal have needed for a number of years now.

Someone might be young and exciting in one league where the expectations are lower but in the Prem ? Not so much - Emery was fairly young and was exciting with Seville

If Arsenal miss out on Ancelotti then the club will suffer for a good number of years
		
Click to expand...

I actually completely agree with you here LP. 

Ancelotti could effectively stabilise the team whilst bringing back a winning mentality, even if only a 2/3 tenure it could help to build a much better base for the team in future


----------



## richart (Dec 11, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			But that is my whole point. I want some one young, and exciting. I don't want old establishment, know what you are going to get, etc.
I want to be entertained. No club has a right to win stuff, and most won't, so what's left? Entertainment, excitement, sauce.
I know what I will get watching an Ancelotti team.
		
Click to expand...

Nuno Santos would suit Arsenal style, and he could probably bring his midfield with him.

Alternatively you could get Sean Dyche. Would sort your defence out, though you may need to get forwards a foot taller.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 11, 2019)

According to SSN Everton have already registered their interest in Ancelotti and preparing talks


----------



## sawtooth (Dec 11, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			But that is my whole point. I want some one young, and exciting. I don't want old establishment, know what you are going to get, etc.
I want to be entertained. No club has a right to win stuff, and most won't, so what's left? Entertainment, excitement, sauce.
I know what I will get watching an Ancelotti team.
		
Click to expand...

Winning honours is not what it's all about, you got that right but it's just a pity you , Arsenal Fan TV and others didn't think like that a couple of years ago. 

Entertainment, excitement was Wengers hallmark but I guess top 4 just wasnt enough for some people 🤫


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 12, 2019)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....-news-release-clause-latest-a9243476.html?amp

Was impressed with him on Tuesday and seems a very good signing at a great price


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 12, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/takumi-minamino-liverpool-transfer-news-release-clause-latest-a9243476.html?amp

Was impressed with him on Tuesday and seems a very good signing at a great price
		
Click to expand...

If Klopp thinks he right, then he must be


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 12, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....-news-release-clause-latest-a9243476.html?amp

Was impressed with him on Tuesday and seems a very good signing at a great price
		
Click to expand...

At that prices it’s a no brainier. Adds a little depth at a fee which doesn’t effect any budget IF you were looking at any big name signings.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 12, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/takumi-minamino-liverpool-transfer-news-release-clause-latest-a9243476.html?amp

Was impressed with him on Tuesday and seems a very good signing at a great price
		
Click to expand...

I was watching him and thought he reminds me of Son .
He gave us a lot of problems and would be a great addition.
Nice to see Kieta playing and scoring ,let’s hope he’s over his injuries and we see what he can do.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2019)

"Liverpoolphil, post: 2091035, member: 15344"]https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/takumi-minamino-liverpool-transfer-news-release-clause-latest-a9243476.html?amp

Was impressed with him on Tuesday and seems a very good signing at a great price
		
Click to expand...


He had a great game against us in the 1st game, was hugely impressed with him.

Get him bought at that price.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 12, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			He had a great game against us in the 1st game, was hugely impressed with him.

Get him bought at that price.
		
Click to expand...

Thats the one position we need an extra body, someone who can ideally play on the left or the right.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 12, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			He had a great game against us in the 1st game, was hugely impressed with him.

Get him bought at that price.
		
Click to expand...

That really is chicken feed in this day and age. Even punts cost double!

Cracking business


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 12, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			He had a great game against us in the 1st game, was hugely impressed with him.

Get him bought at that price.
		
Click to expand...

I suspect it's only come out because it has already been agreed


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Thats the one position we need an extra body, someone who can ideally play on the left or the right.
		
Click to expand...

The more quality in that midfield the better


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			That really is chicken feed in this day and age. Even punts cost double!

Cracking business
		
Click to expand...

We've paid £35m for strikers who have had 1 good game against us.....


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I suspect it's only come out because it has already been agreed

Click to expand...

I really do hope so. We were 3 nil up and coasting at home to them but he was a massive threat. 

I reckon we'd get the fee back in shirt sales in Japan.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 12, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			We've paid £35m for strikers who have had 1 good game against us.....
		
Click to expand...

We've paid more than that for people who haven't even had that good game


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 12, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The more quality in that midfield the better
		
Click to expand...

I dont think he would be for the midfield though, but for one of the front 3, which we do need someone to back up the big div for (Divock, not you, or Jurgen)


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 12, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I dont think he would be for the midfield though, but for one of the front 3, which we do need someone to back up the big div for (Divock, not you, or Jurgen) 

Click to expand...

I think Klopp is buying someone he knows will work hard for him, and someone who will be competition for the current youngsters (Brewster etc). Nothing wrong with making your current group work harder to reafirm their place. A couple of years back, I would have got rid of Origi without question, but now , he has really buckled down and is a threat when he's on the pitch. But again, he's making the others work harder just as he had done.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 12, 2019)

Oh ffs. Why did no one close him down. 3 of them could have, no one did.


----------



## fundy (Dec 12, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Oh ffs. Why did no one close him down. 3 of them could have, no one did.
		
Click to expand...

we dont do closing down lol


----------



## sawtooth (Dec 12, 2019)

Turning back again but that is the powder puff generation of footballers today i'm afraid.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 12, 2019)

After you, no, after you, oh no, after you.

Bizarre game of footy though. I loved the catch in the first half.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 12, 2019)

Comedy stuff. Should be in thecwhat makes you laugh thread.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 12, 2019)

Saka has woken up. Great 10 minutes.


----------



## fundy (Dec 12, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Saka has woken up. Great 10 minutes.
		
Click to expand...


does seem to have something about him, also feels as though it may be a little early for him at the top level too


----------



## fundy (Dec 12, 2019)

stroll in the park to top the group haha


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I dont think he would be for the midfield though, but for one of the front 3, which we do need someone to back up the big div for (Divock, not you, or Jurgen) 

Click to expand...

Talking of Divs, how are yer? 😉

Looking forward to his debut January against the ev, a front 4 of  Gini Mini Mane and Mo


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 12, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Talking of Divs, how are yer? 😉

Looking forward to his debut January against the ev, a front 4 of  Gini Mini Mane and Mo
		
Click to expand...

Fine chicken.

Love it.


----------



## fundy (Dec 12, 2019)

Deluded Brendan @DeludedBrendan
5m
EXIT POLL: 

Conservatives: 1st
Labour: 2nd
Liberal Democrats: 3rd

Arsenal: 9th


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50780855

Best news of the day 👏


----------



## fundy (Dec 13, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50780855

Best news of the day 👏
		
Click to expand...

thats Murphs plan for us down the drain, onto plan B


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 13, 2019)

fundy said:



			thats Murphs plan for us down the drain, onto plan B 

Click to expand...

Maybe the pennys dropped....


----------



## fundy (Dec 13, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Maybe the pennys dropped.... 

Click to expand...


nah were taking a momentum style response and burying our heads in the sand

la la la la la


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 13, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50780855

Best news of the day 👏
		
Click to expand...

you might actually get to Anfield now to see a game whilst he’s in charge. 

Sure Stu will give you directions 😉.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 13, 2019)

fundy said:



			nah were taking a momentum style response and burying our heads in the sand

la la la la la  

Click to expand...

I meant like the Suarez "offer".


----------



## fundy (Dec 13, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I meant like the Suarez "offer". 

Click to expand...


still cant believe that was turned down (see what i mean about head in the sand)


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 13, 2019)

I know this has been around for a while now but Everton submitting plans for a new ground again https://www.skysports.com/football/...ning-submission-for-bramley-moore-dock-ground 

Given the state of the club, especially PL form, is this the right time and shouldn't funds for players be more important than a new stadium?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 13, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I know this has been around for a while now but Everton submitting plans for a new ground again https://www.skysports.com/football/...ning-submission-for-bramley-moore-dock-ground

Given the state of the club, especially PL form, is this the right time and shouldn't funds for players be more important than a new stadium?
		
Click to expand...

The owner has given funds for players, not his fault if they are buying duffers. I can only assume you have not been to Goodison. No corporate boxes at all, no corporate facilities in the ground, 39k capacity, much with obstructed views, poor facilities for the fans. If we want to impress a player / manager to come to join us and take them around there is only so much talk of history that you can do before they start to see the dated ground in front of them. I love it but it is not fit for purpose. We need the ground, facilites etc.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 13, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The owner has given funds for players, not his fault if they are buying duffers. I can only assume you have not been to Goodison. No corporate boxes at all, no corporate facilities in the ground, 39k capacity, much with obstructed views, poor facilities for the fans. If we want to impress a player / manager to come to join us and take them around there is only so much talk of history that you can do before they start to see the dated ground in front of them. I love it but it is not fit for purpose. We need the ground, facilites etc.
		
Click to expand...

I have been there, many moons ago. I get what you're saying but what happens if (and a big if as I think there are far worse clubs in the PL) you get relegated. How does a new stadium build fit in then


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 13, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I have been there, many moons ago. I get what you're saying but what happens if (and a big if as I think there are far worse clubs in the PL) you get relegated. How does a new stadium build fit in then
		
Click to expand...

I would imagine it gets put on hold. The stadium is part of a redevelopment of a section of Liverpool so it is not purely about a stadium but without PL money it doesn't happen. We can keep putting money into players but somehow we need to balance the need for players and the need to update. I suspect it is only us and your mob who have antiquated stadiums and at some point that has to change. Others have done it, we need to join them. Clearly, getting the balance right is tricky but it is the right path to take.


----------



## fundy (Dec 13, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The owner has given funds for players, not his fault if they are buying duffers. I can only assume you have not been to Goodison. No corporate boxes at all, no corporate facilities in the ground, 39k capacity, much with obstructed views, poor facilities for the fans. If we want to impress a player / manager to come to join us and take them around there is only so much talk of history that you can do before they start to see the dated ground in front of them. I love it but it is not fit for purpose. We need the ground, facilites etc.
		
Click to expand...


Best wooden stand in the country


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 13, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I would imagine it gets put on hold. The stadium is part of a redevelopment of a section of Liverpool so it is not purely about a stadium but without PL money it doesn't happen. We can keep putting money into players but somehow we need to balance the need for players and the need to update. I suspect it is only us and your mob who have antiquated stadiums and at some point that has to change. Others have done it, we need to join them. Clearly, getting the balance right is tricky but it is the right path to take.
		
Click to expand...

We are already working on the riverside stand to increase capacity. With the Johnny Haynes stand we're hamstrung with its listed status and not much we can do. Same with the cottage. To be honest I don't think we'll need a massive stadium even if we get back up.


----------



## GB72 (Dec 13, 2019)

Really confused about the talk about Pep having a break clause in his contract. That information can only really have come from one of 2 places, the club or the manager. So am I reading too much into it or is it City putting this out there to attract some interest and allow a change without a pay off in the summer or is it Pep putting out a 'come and get me' statement. May be neither but with players, details of a buy out clause etc only really hit the press when one side or the other wants out.


----------



## fundy (Dec 13, 2019)

GB72 said:



			Really confused about the talk about Pep having a break clause in his contract. That information can only really have come from one of 2 places, the club or the manager. So am I reading too much into it or is it City putting this out there to attract some interest and allow a change without a pay off in the summer or is it Pep putting out a 'come and get me' statement. May be neither but with players, details of a buy out clause etc only really hit the press when one side or the other wants out.
		
Click to expand...


place 3, the agent, surely hot favourite


----------



## GB72 (Dec 13, 2019)

fundy said:



			place 3, the agent, surely hot favourite
		
Click to expand...

Had that as part of place 2


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 13, 2019)

GB72 said:



			Really confused about the talk about Pep having a break clause in his contract. That information can only really have come from one of 2 places, the club or the manager. So am I reading too much into it or is it City putting this out there to attract some interest and allow a change without a pay off in the summer or is it Pep putting out a 'come and get me' statement. May be neither but with players, details of a buy out clause etc only really hit the press when one side or the other wants out.
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps with Klopp extending to at least 2024 he's decided he's had enough, and time to return to Barca?


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 13, 2019)

Pep wants to come to Arsenal. It's obvious.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Pep wants to come to Arsenal. It's obvious.
		
Click to expand...

I do believe Sawtooth thought the same before he went to City


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 13, 2019)

Hey hey...Milner signed extension as well
Looks like progression succession being built in there, what with Gerrard signing his extension to 2024 as well


----------



## fundy (Dec 13, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Pep wants to come to Arsenal. It's obvious.
		
Click to expand...

i love the optimism, weve missed out on Klippety, Pep next on your list  . Out of interest, just how long is this list haha


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 13, 2019)

fundy said:



			i love the optimism, weve missed out on Klippety, Pep next on your list  . Out of interest, just how long is this list haha
		
Click to expand...

Or more importantly where are the likes of Fat Sam on the list  4, 5, 6??????


----------



## fundy (Dec 13, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Or more importantly where are the likes of Fat Sam on the list  4, 5, 6??????
		
Click to expand...

if youve reads Murphs reasoning on our new manager, then hes not in the top 4,5 or 6 thousand thankfully  

this time next year he might be near the top tho lol


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 13, 2019)

fundy said:



			if youve reads Murphs reasoning on our new manager, then hes not in the top 4,5 or 6 thousand thankfully 

this time next year he might be near the top tho lol
		
Click to expand...

I actually don't think he's ever going to be on the list. Of all the out there mangers, his style is so far away from Arsenal's DNA


----------



## fundy (Dec 13, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I actually don't think he's ever going to be on the list. Of all the out there mangers, his style is so far away from Arsenal's DNA
		
Click to expand...

as someone who went home and away during the George Graham era some of us still bear the scars lol

eternally grateful for how much that changed under Wenger (and Dein), sadly that era dragged out a bit too long and left an uphill battle for the followers which is not going to be resolved overnight or by one managerial appt


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 13, 2019)

fundy said:



			as someone who went home and away during the George Graham era some of us still bear the scars lol

eternally grateful for how much that changed under Wenger (and Dein), sadly that era dragged out a bit too long and left an uphill battle for the followers which is not going to be resolved overnight or by one managerial appt
		
Click to expand...

But there were good times under Graham as well (winning the title at Anfield, FA cup and Cup Winners. 1-0 to the Arsenal wouldn't be a bad philosophy at the moment. I do agree as a neutral that aside from Wright upfront there was often very little attacking flair. Guess the argument was it largely worked. 

That said, Wenger was a total revolution from his tactics, training and even dietary requirements and definitely brought the success back. I do think its sad, to a small degree the last couple of seasons have tarnished what would have been a fine legacy at the club and given the board and any manager a big job to rebuild and challenge. Surely there has to be realisation (especially amongst sections of the fans) that it's a long haul and for once, a manager needs time and funds to do that


----------



## fundy (Dec 13, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But there were good times under Graham as well (winning the title at Anfield, FA cup and Cup Winners. 1-0 to the Arsenal wouldn't be a bad philosophy at the moment. I do agree as a neutral that aside from Wright upfront there was often very little attacking flair. Guess the argument was it largely worked. 

That said, Wenger was a total revolution from his tactics, training and even dietary requirements and definitely brought the success back. I do think its sad, to a small degree the last couple of seasons have tarnished what would have been a fine legacy at the club and given the board and any manager a big job to rebuild and challenge. Surely there has to be realisation (especially amongst sections of the fans) that it's a long haul and for once, a manager needs time and funds to do that
		
Click to expand...


There were good times but it was a very hard watch at times. Wednesday night away game, long journey, and the worst thing that could happen was we scored early as we knew we would then be defending for the rest of the game! Remember leaving a Villa game at half time when it was 1-0 as there was nothing left to see and better off celebrating the win early!!!

Wenger was a revelation, and we massively over achieved and had some great times playing great football. As fans we were spoilt thats for sure, the sadness comes that after Dein left the club didnt build on the first half of Wengers tenure, then stagnated and then regressed (at a time when other clubs fuelled by large funds were going the other way)

Not sure the main issue currently is at the manager level, its higher up in the club than that and ultimately were more than likely to regress back to where we were 25 years ago unless there are changes at board level


----------



## Piece (Dec 14, 2019)

As 2-0 defeats go, a good one. Had chances but for most of this season, didn't take them. Our season starts next week.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2019)

Piece said:



			As 2-0 defeats go, a good one. Had chances but for most of this season, didn't take them. Our season starts next week.
		
Click to expand...

Play like that for the rest of the season and you may stay up


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 14, 2019)

Piece said:



			As 2-0 defeats go, a good one. Had chances but for most of this season, didn't take them. Our season starts next week.
		
Click to expand...

You'll stay up playing like that. Good luck for the rest of the season👍


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 14, 2019)

Choo choo The Top Of The League  Klopp Express rolls onto Qatar.

Not even a racist Tory prime minister/government is  stopping us winning this Mickey mouse league 😂😂


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 14, 2019)

Hey Norfolk Shaun, what time’s motd on bro?


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 14, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Hey Norfolk Shaun, what time’s motd on bro?
		
Click to expand...

I'd be sick as a canary if I was a Leicester fan 😂😂

I reckon Klopp has paid Brendan off......


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 14, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I'd be sick as a canary if I was a Leicester fan 😂😂

I reckon Klopp has paid Brendan off......
		
Click to expand...

gutted me ‘mates’ couldn’t get me a ticket 😭


----------



## BrianM (Dec 14, 2019)

Bet365 have paid out on Liverpool winning the league already, can’t see any other outcome in fairness, they’ve been superb this season so far.
Chelsea could do with getting a few bodies in, in January, struggling at the moment.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 14, 2019)

another week another VAR mistake

Clear pen.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 14, 2019)

League done and dusted. Looking forward to MOTD though. Sheffield United quietly creeping into 5th


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Dec 14, 2019)

Ok not Premier League just yet, but just wanted to say that Wycombe Wanderers are 7 points clear at the top of League One

Come on you Chairboys 😎


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2019)

It was a very scrappy game , Watford caused a lot of troubles with their physical nature - real good battle , Alisson made some great saves but two quality finishes from Mo was enough to do the job . VAR once again embarrassing


----------



## fundy (Dec 14, 2019)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Ok not Premier League just yet, but just wanted to say that Wycombe Wanderers are 7 points clear at the top of League One

Come on you Chairboys 😎
		
Click to expand...


were almost 2/1 to win at home today! plenty who think theyre in a  false position despite their results


----------



## Fish (Dec 15, 2019)

BrianM said:



			Chelsea could do with getting a few bodies in, in January, struggling at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

desperately needed, extremely poor display yesterday, a very lack lustre performance against a team that couldn’t buy a result previously, the players can have no complaints when new players arrive if they don’t put a shift in and get benched, even with a mix of youth and seniors it was the flattest effort I’ve seen all season.

we’ve been in a false position and punching above our weight for a while, but we’ve held on by having a good start putting a few points between us and the pack underneath, but that’s slowly eroding, we have some excellent talent and I think with a couple of experienced players in exposed areas will give us the stability and kick we need.

Frank is learning also, some changes no doubt giving players a rest against so-called weaker opposition hasn’t worked, but I’m sure he’ll learn from those errors quickly, but our squad is young and light, the January window will be interesting to see where we focus our signings and what support the board will give him to get what we desperately need.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 15, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			League done and dusted. Looking forward to MOTD though. Sheffield United quietly creeping into 5th
		
Click to expand...

Not quite but Imagine how unbearable we're gonna be if we do win it.  😂😂


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 15, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Not quite but Imagine how unbearable we're gonna be if we do win it.  😂😂
		
Click to expand...

I think we know 😱😱😱😱😱


----------



## Fish (Dec 15, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Not quite but Imagine how unbearable we're gonna be if we do win it.  😂😂
		
Click to expand...

no tv, internet, nothing, in fact, I might have to disappear deep into a jungle for at least a year 😳


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 15, 2019)

Fish said:



			no tv, internet, nothing, in fact, I might have to disappear deep into a jungle for at least a year 😳
		
Click to expand...

What??....Ant and Dec for a whole year?.......are you mad?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 15, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Not quite but Imagine how unbearable we're gonna be if we do win it.  😂😂
		
Click to expand...

We need to get back to winning gracefully and not giving the public anything to criticise us for.
OR we could really rub it in.
Pick your choice.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 15, 2019)

Quality from Ben Foster, this is the sort of thing that needs more publicity.


----------



## Norrin Radd (Dec 15, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Quality from Ben Foster, this is the sort of thing that needs more publicity.
View attachment 28769

Click to expand...


you cant beat human kindness like that, well played BEN FOSTER.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 15, 2019)

Fish said:



			no tv, internet, nothing, in fact, I might have to disappear deep into a jungle for at least a year 😳
		
Click to expand...

Yes!! I'll start a whip round for your airfare, one way obviously 😂😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 15, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			We need to get back to winning gracefully and not giving the public anything to criticise us for.
OR we could really rub it in.
Pick your choice.
		
Click to expand...

After being reminded in every discussion about how long it’s been since we’ve won it or never won the PL then it’s got to be the latter 😁😁


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 15, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			After being reminded in every discussion about how long it’s been since we’ve won it or never won the PL then it’s got to be the latter 😁😁
		
Click to expand...

Is the correct answer.


----------



## Fish (Dec 15, 2019)

Cruel footy humour  🙁


----------



## dronfield (Dec 15, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			League done and dusted. Looking forward to MOTD though. Sheffield United quietly creeping into 5th
		
Click to expand...

Us Blades are enjoying our 1st season back in the Prem, and getting some media praise re our style of play.

We need 15 more points to guarantee survival in the league - not bad condidering we were bookies relegation favourites at start of season.


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 15, 2019)

Sooner this shower get a proper manager the better


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 15, 2019)

dronfield said:



			Us Blades are enjoying our 1st season back in the Prem, and getting some media praise re our style of play.

We need 15 more points to guarantee survival in the league - not bad condidering we were bookies relegation favourites at start of season.
		
Click to expand...

You don't need to worry about another 15 points, no problem. Team of the season along with Leicester so far for me 👍.


----------



## Slime (Dec 15, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes!! I'll start a whip round for your airfare, one way obviously 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Can you get me a ticket, too!


----------



## Kellfire (Dec 15, 2019)

Is Kean the new Balotelli?


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 15, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Sooner this shower get a proper manager the better
		
Click to expand...

Red or blues?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 15, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Red or blues?
		
Click to expand...

He’s on about themselves.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 15, 2019)

Piece said:



			As 2-0 defeats go, a good one. Had chances but for most of this season, didn't take them. Our season starts next week.
		
Click to expand...

One of the most impressive performances by an away side at Anfield this season, if not result.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 15, 2019)

Not a pretty game but we will take a point. 

Doesn't look good for Keane. I can see him going back to Italy in January on loan with a view to a permanent move in the summer. Wrong player at the wrong time.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 15, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Not a pretty game but we will take a point.

Doesn't look good for Kean. I can see him going back to Italy in January on loan with a view to a permanent move in the summer. Wrong player at the wrong time.
		
Click to expand...

Big Dunc just explained mate, purely to waste time.
I get Kean’s frustration but Dunc will bring him round.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 15, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Big Dunc just explained mate, purely to waste time.
I get Kean’s frustration but Dunc will bring him round.
		
Click to expand...

9 other players he could have taken off though mate.

He may not have meant anything by it, but the lad's only a kid. His face at the time suggests it'll take more than a cuddle to resolve.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 15, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			9 other players he could have taken off though mate.

He may not have meant anything by it, but the lad's only a kid. His face at the time suggests it'll take more than a cuddle to resolve.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. Subbed after 18 minutes and no cuddle there and then...


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 15, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			9 other players he could have taken off though mate.

He may not have meant anything by it, but the lad's only a kid. His face at the time suggests it'll take more than a cuddle to resolve.
		
Click to expand...

Not really, forward for forward, so maybe 2 and out the 3 he was the weakest.
Like I said I get Kean’s frustration, but I also think Big Dunc will sort it.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 15, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Not really, forward for forward,* so maybe 2 and out the 3 he was the weakest*.
Like I said I get Kean’s frustration, but I also think Big Dunc will sort it.
		
Click to expand...

So Dunc still made a choice out of who he rated the most. If i'm a promising prospect replaced by Niasse, i'm straight on the phone to my agent.

Dunc has you fired up and playing the way he did, 100% effort. Not sure he's gonna be the best at comforting someone, not really what i think f when i recall big Dunc.

Good result away though!


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2019)

So were playing 4-2-4 against City with a back 4 of Maitlin Niles, Sokratis, Chambers and Kolasinac. What could go wrong lol


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 15, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Big Dunc just explained mate, purely to waste time.
I get Kean’s frustration but Dunc will bring him round.
		
Click to expand...

Iwobi and Richarlison were still on, he could have pulled one of them and protected their muscles. We have a lot of games coming up, Keane was still fresh. I saw what he said but surely he would have spoken to him immediately to explain. He ignored him completely. He's thrown him under a bus there.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 15, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			So Dunc still made a choice out of who he rated the most. If i'm a promising prospect replaced by Niasse, i'm straight on the phone to my agent.

Dunc has you fired up and playing the way he did, 100% effort. Not sure he's gonna be the best at comforting someone, not really what i think f when i recall big Dunc.

Good result away though!
		
Click to expand...

That's where you need a good number 2. It doesn't look like Dunc has one, or if he does he isn't being very effective.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 15, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That's where you need a good number 2. It doesn't look like Dunc has one, or if he does he isn't being very effective.
		
Click to expand...

Tbf, he's only been in the job a week. 

A bit of an Ole move. Get a crowd fav in to appease everyone. If you have any chance with Ancelotti then i wouldn't let emotion play a part in replacing him.


----------



## richart (Dec 15, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Not quite but Imagine how unbearable we're gonna be if we do win it.  😂😂
		
Click to expand...

No worse than Pin seeker if you don’t.


----------



## TheDiablo (Dec 15, 2019)

Absolutely shocking man management from Dunc. Cold shouldered him as well as humiliating him. 

A 19 year old kid in a foreign country for the first time

'Family Club'


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 15, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Iwobi and Richarlison were still on, he could have pulled one of them and protected their muscles. We have a lot of games coming up, Keane was still fresh. I saw what he said but surely he would have spoken to him immediately to explain. He ignored him completely. He's thrown him under a bus there.
		
Click to expand...

Clutching at straws a little bit mate, just gone to Old Trafford and got a point, ravaged by injuries and we want him to play softly softly, not for me.
Plus he had Iwobi and Richarliason in midfield as part of a 4-4-2, so you could argue if he’s bringing Niasse on it was DCL or Kean, and I rather he went with his gut feelings than worrying if he’s going to upset someone.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 15, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbf, he's only been in the job a week.

A bit of an Ole move. Get a crowd fav in to appease everyone. If you have any chance with Ancelotti then i wouldn't let emotion play a part in replacing him.
		
Click to expand...

Dunc doesn't want the job, he has been very clear about that. 

I agree with what you say about only being in the job a week but it just needs a shuffle in the backroom staff temporarily to help. It's just about sharing the load so it is not all on him. I'm guessing he doesn't expect to be in the job for long and so is not planning beyond the immediate few days.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 15, 2019)

Car crash already.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 15, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Clutching at straws a little bit mate, just gone to Old Trafford and got a point, ravaged by injuries and we want him to play softly softly, not for me.
Plus he had Iwobi and Richarliason in midfield as part of a 4-4-2, so you could argue if he’s bringing Niasse on it was DCL or Kean, and I rather he went with his gut feelings than worrying if he’s going to upset someone.
		
Click to expand...

Dunc is focused purely on the game, I get that. However he has just humiliated a young lad living in a foreign land we have spent £25m on and has not settled in the team. Today was a good result for us but that was not good man management.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 15, 2019)

Oh shit! not the start we were looking for.


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 15, 2019)

Tube on strike again?

It was nice while it lasted to have the 17pts on city


----------



## paddyc (Dec 15, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Dunc is focused purely on the game, I get that. However he has just humiliated a young lad living in a foreign land we have spent £25m on and has not settled in the team. Today was a good result for us but that was not good man management.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed  felt sorry for  the lad. Should have taken Davies off on a yellow card. Should have put the arm round and explained  to him instead the poor kids had to suffer humiliation and make a lonely walk down the tunnel.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 15, 2019)

Someone was due a kicking, and it looks like it's us.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 15, 2019)

Why is Kolasinac not picking up Sterling? 

I remember, it's because he is useless.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 15, 2019)

Slime said:



			Can you get me a ticket, too! 

Click to expand...

Yes but you'll have to share with Fish, make sure you think very carefully 😂


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 15, 2019)

City are excellent at the cynical fouls. They rotate it well too.

The sort of thing you hate when others do it to your team, but you wish your own lot did it more.


----------



## Fish (Dec 15, 2019)

fundy said:



			So were playing 4-2-4 against City with a back 4 of Maitlin Niles, Sokratis, Chambers and Kolasinac. What could go wrong lol
		
Click to expand...

A lot by the looks of it 😜


----------



## Fish (Dec 15, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Car crash already.
		
Click to expand...

Heading for a pile up 😜


----------



## Slime (Dec 15, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes but you'll have to share with Fish, make sure you think very carefully 😂
		
Click to expand...

It'd be a price worth paying.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 15, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Dunc is focused purely on the game, I get that. However he has just humiliated a young lad living in a foreign land we have spent £25m on and has not settled in the team. Today was a good result for us but that was not good man management.
		
Click to expand...

How long have we gone on about prima donnas not caring etc, Kean hasn’t done anything since he arrived and we’re near relegation.
He did nothing when he came on except give away silly fouls, maybe instead of wrapping him in cotton wool he’s been given a reality check and now he needs to step up to the plate and prove Ferguson wrong.
Whether or not it will prove to be good or bad man management we’ll see over the next few months.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 15, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			How long have we gone on about prima donnas not caring etc, Kean hasn’t done anything since he arrived and we’re near relegation.
He did nothing when he came on except give away silly fouls, maybe instead of wrapping him in cotton wool he’s been given a reality check and now he needs to step up to the plate and prove Ferguson wrong.
*Whether or not it will prove to be good or bad man management we’ll see over the next few months*.
		
Click to expand...

Surely if it is to be believed it was just for time wasting, as claimed. Then he wasn't trying to get a reaction from him?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 15, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Surely if it is to be believed it was just for time wasting, as claimed. Then he wasn't trying to get a reaction from him?
		
Click to expand...

Or publicly he’s protecting the player, what’s said in private may be different.
Probably get more feedback this week and see if Kean reacts.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 15, 2019)

DeBruyne really is a pain in the bottom.


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			DeBruyne really is a pain in the bottom.
		
Click to expand...

would help if someone would put a foot in on him rather than ushering him through as Doozi does there. could learn from the fouls city commit every time were in that part of the pitch


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 15, 2019)

This could be a big score today - Arsenal players just strolling around - no heart , no desire or even basic effort. Can see why there are so many empty seats


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 15, 2019)

fundy said:



			would help if someone would put a foot in on him rather than ushering him through as Doozi does there. could learn from the fouls city commit every time were in that part of the pitch
		
Click to expand...

Back to my cynical fouls comment. Too nice. Just stick a foot in.


----------



## BrianM (Dec 15, 2019)

Manchester City not even out of 1st gear and they’re giving Arsenal a pumping.
Hard to believe how far Arsenal have fallen, no quick fix there for whoever they get in as manager.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 15, 2019)

Desperately seeking manager who can stop a defence giving away comical goals. does not allow the opposition all the time and space in the world to do what they like with the ball  can get ozil playing, inject some sort pasion,  enthusiasm,  and motivate players on 300k a week  to give everything for Arsenal.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			This could be a big score today - Arsenal players just strolling around - no heart , no desire or even basic effort. Can see why there are so many empty seats
		
Click to expand...

At times they have been ok. It's just they stand off when City attack. Going forwards has been ok, but not clinical. The team selection is what it is, mainly due to injuries, but there is no hard edge. No sticking in a foot, a trip, a shoulder. A bit of nastiness. It's what this game needs. City have it, Arsenal don't.


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2019)

paddyc said:



			Desperately seeking manager who can stop a defence giving away comical goals. does not allow the opposition all the time and space in the world to do what they like with the ball  can get ozil playing, inject some sort pasion,  enthusiasm,  and motivate players on 300k a week  to give everything for Arsenal.
		
Click to expand...


instead theyre hanging Freddie out to dry short term, giving him no coaching staff apart from the tactical genius Mertesacker, hard to blame him much with the resources he has available, especially at the back


----------



## Fish (Dec 15, 2019)

Not sure if they’re rushing to get in the pie queue or are leaving the ground, but there’s a lot of people leaving after that 3rd goal went in 🤔


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2019)

Fish said:



			Not sure if they’re rushing to get in the pie queue or are leaving the ground, but there’s a lot of people leaving after that 3rd goal went in 🤔
		
Click to expand...


youd need a drink after watching that too!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 15, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Dunc is focused purely on the game, I get that. However he has just humiliated a young lad living in a foreign land we have spent £25m on and has not settled in the team. Today was a good result for us but that was not good man management.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe he asked him to do a particular role and he didn’t do it.
We don’t know.


----------



## Fish (Dec 15, 2019)

fundy said:



			youd need a drink after watching that too!
		
Click to expand...

I watched something similar yesterday, no heart or passion, just clocked in 🙁


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 15, 2019)

Dozys dive was embarrassing !
Marking for Sterling’s goal was shocking.
KDB though what a footballer.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 15, 2019)

Can anyone give a good reason why subs on the bench don't have their match shirt on? I struggle with not having shin pads on as well but the shirt I really don't get. Anyone know the genuine reason?


----------



## paddyc (Dec 15, 2019)

fundy said:



			instead theyre hanging Freddie out to dry short term, giving him no coaching staff apart from the tactical genius Mertesacker, hard to blame him much with the resources he has available, especially at the back
		
Click to expand...

Agreed mate but when your playing a team who are in another league to you you get tight and press and don't let them settle. You don't  need to be a tactical genius to get that across to players.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 15, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Maybe he asked him to do a particular role and he didn’t do it.
We don’t know.
		
Click to expand...

That was my thinking as well until the post match interview. Dunc could have been conning us all in the interview, keeping it in house etc.

If he ignored the advice given and with his current record for us then he may not be wearing the shirt again. There are enough games coming up that will give us the answer.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 15, 2019)

I am not sure fixing this junk is in Feddies remit. This is a very unbalanced squad. Some huge potential, but the defence is lacking. Has been for ages. A lot of this comes down to not having a recruitment policy in place. Arsenal have randomely bought what was available for years. No direction. No strategy.

The last few years of Wenger, they were in decline. Emery has accelerated this, as have the board. Arsenals decline started the day the Kroenkys arrived. They have bred a lacadisical attitude from the top to the bottom. No plan, no strategy, just a remit to turn Arsenal into Arsenal inc. A brand of KSL. A franchise. Nothing more.


----------



## SteveW86 (Dec 15, 2019)

Ozil not happy at coming off


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			Ozil not happy at coming off
		
Click to expand...


another one showing more passion when coming off than when on the park week in week out, send him to Granits meetings!


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 15, 2019)

I don't think he  has done much wrong. Trouble is, in midfield and defense, anyone we have is already playing.


----------



## SteveW86 (Dec 15, 2019)

I wonder how little effort they put into training if this is what they’re like on game day


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2019)

cynical foul after cynical foul, wish we did it more, hate watching city do it time after time

if this was rugby City would have someone in the sinbin for half the game!


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 15, 2019)

Another yellow, another City player. They do this so well.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 15, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			Ozil not happy at coming off
		
Click to expand...

We need to offload Ozil in the transfer  window.An expensive  liability who the fans have supported and stood by over the years but that performance  and reaction should tell those making the decisions that enough is enuf


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2019)

paddyc said:



			We need to offload Ozil in the transfer  window.An expensive  liability who the fans have supported and stood by over the years but that performance  and reaction should tell those making the decisions that enough is enuf
		
Click to expand...

same issue we had in the last window, no one bar us is stupid enough to pay him close to the wage hes on so hes going no where unless were still paying him 250k+ a week


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 15, 2019)

paddyc said:



			We need to offload Ozil in the transfer  window.An expensive  liability who the fans have supported and stood by over the years but that performance  and reaction should tell those making the decisions that enough is enuf
		
Click to expand...

Willing to swap for Kean, Big Dunc will sort Ozil out.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 15, 2019)

If City put their mind to it, they could get 5 easily. Arsenal so open in midfield and at the back. Nothing Ljundberg will be able to do and I guess Europa League the only hope they'll have as missing on any European comp a big let down. Ozil's best bit of skill was kicking the bottle on the way off the pitch


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 15, 2019)

It is easy to hang this on Ozil, and I am far from his biggest fan, but seriously, is binning him really going to change anything.
Getting a manager in who can get the most out of possibly our only true creative player is surely more important.
Back in the FA cup final against Chelsea, he bossed that game. Was a beast. It is in there.


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			It is easy to hang this on Ozil, and I am far from his biggest fan, but seriously, is binning him really going to change anything.
Getting a manager in who can get the most out of possibly our only true creative player is surely more important.
Back in the FA cup final against Chelsea, he bossed that game. Was a beast. It is in there.
		
Click to expand...


how long do you give someone on 350k a week before you say enoughs enough though?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 15, 2019)

fundy said:



			how long do you give someone on 350k a week before you say enoughs enough though?
		
Click to expand...

I agree. When was the last time he consistently looked interested and able to change a game


----------



## paddyc (Dec 15, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			It is easy to hang this on Ozil, and I am far from his biggest fan, but seriously, is binning him really going to change anything.
Getting a manager in who can get the most out of possibly our only true creative player is surely more important.
Back in the FA cup final against Chelsea, he bossed that game. Was a beast. It is in there.
		
Click to expand...

Says it all Murph when you can only recall one game that he bossed. Not sure there is a  beast in there and that he is ever coming out again.


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2019)

not convinced were good enough to leave Lacazette on the bench when we lose 3-0 in this fashion, but hey lets piss off another of those who are actually good enough


----------



## Fish (Dec 15, 2019)

fundy said:



			how long do you give someone on 350k a week before you say enoughs enough though?
		
Click to expand...

He’s hardly an asset, I’d cash out even though it means taking a hit, the only issue with that is he won’t accept personal terms so he’ll run his contract down, hardly thoughtful or respectful towards the club = parasite!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 15, 2019)

Fish said:



			He’s hardly an asset, I’d cash out even though it means taking a hit, the only issue with that is he won’t accept personal terms so he’ll run his contract down, hardly thoughtful or respectful towards the club = parasite!
		
Click to expand...

And who would want him on the performances he's given? What's he adding to a side


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 15, 2019)

Sure, but today was he the worst? No. Not by a long way. Guendouzi has been terrible, Torreira anonymous, Kolasinac, awful, Chambers bog average, Auba no service, Socratis worst player on the pitch, etc.

But it's Ozil's fault. No. It isn't.

Management is about motivation. Look at Klopp. Motivator. I bet he could get something out of Ozil.

You can't sell him. No one will buy. He is there for the duration, and has been since his mega deal. They need a manager who can find what motivates him, because when he is on it, he is on it. Just ignoring him isn't management, it's being pathetic. A good manager works with what he has.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 15, 2019)

To be fair though, I would sell the flipping lot if I could, starting with Kroenky, and working my way downwards.


----------



## Fish (Dec 15, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Another yellow, another City player. They do this so well.
		
Click to expand...

Would sin bins be the answer, 10 mins for professional/cynical fouls rather than taking a yellow for the team.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 15, 2019)

Fish said:



			Would sin bins be the answer, 10 mins for professional/cynical fouls rather than taking a yellow for the team.
		
Click to expand...

Yes.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 15, 2019)

Fish said:



			Would sin bins be the answer, 10 mins for professional/cynical fouls rather than taking a yellow for the team.
		
Click to expand...

No. We need cynical fouls in the game, it’s a vital part i feel but I think referees have got to police it properly.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 15, 2019)

Looking forward to famTV 👌🏻


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 15, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Sure, but today was he the worst? No. Not by a long way. Guendouzi has been terrible, Torreira anonymous, Kolasinac, awful, Chambers bog average, Auba no service, Socratis worst player on the pitch, etc.

But it's Ozil's fault. No. It isn't.

Management is about motivation. Look at Klopp. Motivator. I bet he could get something out of Ozil.

You can't sell him. No one will buy. He is there for the duration, and has been since his mega deal. They need a manager who can find what motivates him, because when he is on it, he is on it. Just ignoring him isn't management, it's being pathetic. A good manager works with what he has.
		
Click to expand...

Need to be one hell of a mind reader and motivator to get all of those playing then. 

The thing is as you say when Ozil is on, he's very, very good but as a senior member of the squad surely he's a responsibility to lead by example on the pitch and try and motivate those around especially the younger members. I think the whole issue is there are far too many passengers in that squad and you could ship a few of those you named and Ozil out and start again as ultimately that's what is needed


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 15, 2019)

If you look at both teams today you could see Ancelotti preferring to go to Everton - at least there is fight there.

Arsenal play with 10 with Ozil on the pitch - he is talented but wasting it. Abumeyang looks like he truly fed up and why would you have Lacazette on the bench 

Some serious problems at the club - and it’s more than just needing a manager


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Sure, but today was he the worst? No. Not by a long way. Guendouzi has been terrible, Torreira anonymous, Kolasinac, awful, Chambers bog average, Auba no service, Socratis worst player on the pitch, etc.

But it's Ozil's fault. No. It isn't.

Management is about motivation. Look at Klopp. Motivator. I bet he could get something out of Ozil.

You can't sell him. No one will buy. He is there for the duration, and has been since his mega deal. They need a manager who can find what motivates him, because when he is on it, he is on it. Just ignoring him isn't management, it's being pathetic. A good manager works with what he has.
		
Click to expand...


whos said its all his fault? hes a big part of the problem (mainly because he delivers so little for such a large part of the wage bill!)

Think youre harsh on Torreira, thought he fought well pretty much on his own for an hour whilst Doozy strolled and dived around alongside him in a 2 man midfield against a side like City

Lets be honest none of todays back 4 are good enough, nor for me is Doozy (im sure i must be missing what others see). Aubam was passed to twice in the first half, hard to criticise him when he goes somewhere to win things in january or the summer. Likewise Leno whos just got better and better lately and pulled off one top top class save yet again

Too early to judge Pepe/Martinelli/Smith Rowe/Saka/Willock albeit most are a bit young/green for this. One in the side would be ok, but were having to field several each week


----------



## paddyc (Dec 15, 2019)

Well City wont have an easier game all season.Didnt break sweat, not out of first gear. A training match for them.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 15, 2019)

Lacazette is on the bench, because regardless how much he and Auba have a love in, it is next to impossible to play both of them, as they both want to play through the middle.

Pepe, Auba, Martinelli makes sense, but there is zip behind them til you get to Leno.


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2019)

paddyc said:



			Well City wont have an easier game all season.Didnt break sweat, not out of first gear. A training match for them.
		
Click to expand...

and still they committed 20+ fouls and picked up 4 yellows lol


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



*If you look at both teams today you could see Ancelotti preferring to go to Everton - at least there is fight there.*

Arsenal play with 10 with Ozil on the pitch - he is talented but wasting it. Abumeyang looks like he truly fed up and why would you have Lacazette on the bench

Some serious problems at the club - and it’s more than just needing a manager
		
Click to expand...


No chance. Arsenal is a bigger and better job. If Ancelotti chose Everton over Arsenal I’d recommend he gets his head tested.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 15, 2019)

Sorry, but I am bored with the xxx per week rubbish. They are all massively over paid for kicking a pigs bladder about in a field. That one multi millionaire is paid more than another multi millionaire is a bit irrelevant. 

They need managing.they need to want to train. To buy into a dream. A vision. To be a part of something big. This is what Arsenal lack. Belief. I don't think they have truly had this for years. It is what sets the best managers apart. Wenger had it, and lost it. Poch had it, ditto. Mourinho, certainly, Klopp has it, Pep has it, but is maybe losing it. It's character, sauce, magnetism, vision.

Money is not motivating, never has been.


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			No chance. Arsenal is a bigger and better job. If Ancelotti chose Everton over Arsenal I’d recommend he gets his head tested.
		
Click to expand...

he wont have a choice, Arsenal arent interested on all accounts


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 15, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Lacazette is on the bench, because regardless how much he and Auba have a love in, *it is next to impossible to play both of them*, as they both want to play through the middle.

Pepe, Auba, Martinelli makes sense, but there is zip behind them til you get to Leno.
		
Click to expand...

You’d think the manager who bought him would’ve known that.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 15, 2019)

fundy said:



			he wont have a choice, Arsenal arent interested on all accounts
		
Click to expand...

Haha seriously?


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 15, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			You’d think the manager who bought him would’ve known that.
		
Click to expand...

Too true, but as previously said, there is not, and hasn't been for ages, a clear transfer strategy.


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha seriously?
		
Click to expand...

doesnt fit the age profile they want and worried about his recent "form" on all accounts


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 15, 2019)

I don't know who'll Arsenal get but I'm guessing Ancelotti will see the difference in fight and application between Everton and Arsenal and know where he'd rather be. Not sure who'd fancy the job with so many passengers in the squad and the way they are playing


----------



## Fish (Dec 15, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			No chance. Arsenal is a bigger and better job. If Ancelotti chose Everton over Arsenal I’d recommend he gets his head tested.
		
Click to expand...

It’s a bigger & better attraction, but a jobs a job in the PL to a degree. Arsenal require a full rebuild, Everton don’t imo, I think a manager like Carlo would enjoy the challenge in the NW against North London 🤔


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2019)

Fish said:



			It’s a bigger & better attraction, but a jobs a job in the PL to a degree. Arsenal require a full rebuild, Everton don’t imo, I think a manager like Carlo would enjoy the challenge in the NW against North London 🤔
		
Click to expand...

the main consideration should be Kroenke and how he runs his franchise, sadly that is likely to limit our appeal  not sure it gets us below Everton still  though lol


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 15, 2019)

Arsenal are in a trough, don't get me wrong, but they are still a huge draw. London, history, massive wages, great stadium, great training facilities, medical facilities, easy to do better than the current / previous manager in recent times. Why would anyone not want this.

Me? I don't want Ancelotti. It is short term, he is expensive, brings his own team, and in two years time we will be looking for another manager.

Now is a chance to make a choice for the future. Get this one right, and we are back in a couple of years.

Look at Liverpool appointing Klopp, Spurs Poch, it can be done. Look at United, Moyes, Dutch bloke (memory gone blank), Mourinho, OGS. Not a right decision amongst them. Get the right bloke in.


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Arsenal are in a trough, don't get me wrong, but they are still a huge draw. London, history, massive wages, great stadium, great training facilities, medical facilities, easy to do better than the current / previous manager in recent times. Why would anyone not want this.

Me? I don't want Ancelotti. It is short term, he is expensive, brings his own team, and in two years time we will be looking for another manager.

Now is a chance to make a choice for the future. Get this one right, and we are back in a couple of years.

Look at Liverpool appointing Klopp, Spurs Poch, it can be done. Look at United, Moyes, Dutch bloke (memory gone blank), Mourinho, OGS. Not a right decision amongst them. Get the right bloke in.
		
Click to expand...


who you want Murph? any ideas?

for me it needs to be a long term decision with someone they are prepared to invest in rebuilding, giving the young players we have a chance with some sensible additions whilst trying hard to hold onto the assets we do have (its too late for Aubam clearly)


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 15, 2019)

fundy said:



			who you want Murph? any ideas?

for me it needs to be a long term decision with someone they are prepared to invest in rebuilding, giving the young players we have a chance with some sensible additions whilst trying hard to hold onto the assets we do have (its too late for Aubam clearly)
		
Click to expand...

Posted them earlier! 
Was joking about Klopp and Pep, clearly, as they are not now available. Truly believe that when Wenger was given his last two year deal both of these would have come, but that is water under the bridge. What might have been, with a more ambitious board.

In short, Nagelsmann.


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2019)

fundy said:



			who you want Murph? any ideas?

for me it needs to be a long term decision with someone they are prepared to invest in rebuilding, giving the young players we have a chance with some sensible additions whilst trying hard to hold onto the assets we do have (its too late for Aubam clearly)
		
Click to expand...

maybe:

leno
bellerin saliba ch tierney
ceballos torreira lm
rw laca pepe

martinez, martinelli, saka, willock, smith rowe, reiss nelson, holding all worth keeping, maybe doozi, nketiah likely to return too but need plenty of strengthening especially in defense and centre mid (ideally with a few hard men/leaders amongst them)

need to let go: luiz, kolasinac, mustafi, sokratis, chambers, mavropanos, ozil, xhaka and sadly cash in what they can on Aubameyang

at least that would give you a base to build on but whoever comes in needs to impart their style and format onto the side as well as significantly strengthening


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 15, 2019)

fundy said:



			maybe:

leno
bellerin saliba ch tierney
ceballos torreira lm
rw laca pepe

martinez, martinelli, saka, willock, smith rowe, reiss nelson, holding all worth keeping, maybe doozi, nketiah likely to return too but need plenty of strengthening especially in defense and centre mid (ideally with a few hard men/leaders amongst them)

need to let go: luiz, kolasinac, mustafi, sokratis, chambers, mavropanos, ozil, xhaka and sadly cash in what they can on Aubameyang
		
Click to expand...

Can't say no to any of this apart from Bellerin and sadly, Tierney. Players can be brilliant, but if permanently injured, worse than useless. Sell, and buy guys made from steel, not chocolate.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 15, 2019)

Oh, and Ceballos is on loan, and will probably go home at the end of the season, I would.


----------



## fundy (Dec 15, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Oh, and Ceballos is on loan, and will probably go home at the end of the season, I would.
		
Click to expand...

yeah hard to argue that, clearly very talented, again may not be the most resilient

bit early to be writing tierney off surely, bellerin i understand moreso


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 15, 2019)

Van Gaal, dutch bloke. Not senile afterall. Just took a while. 

No google here, honest.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 15, 2019)

Please Mr Moshiri,  keep Dunc in the job for another week.  Him in charge, Goodison bouncing, Arsenal the softest of soft visitors right now. Why give Arsenal a chance by bringing in a new man?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 15, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1206169090936717313quality.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 15, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			No. We need cynical fouls in the game, it’s a vital part i feel but I think referees have got to police it properly.
		
Click to expand...

I think that it should be a bit like the rugby where they can give anyone a yellow "for the next foul" when they are obviously systematically doing it as a tactic. Obviously the one who does the foul gets the booking.

Similar to when Herrera was sent off at Cheslea a few years ago because the Man U players were fouling Hazard every time he got in dangerous positions.

Most players get away with 2/3/4 fouls before they get booked, but this can shorten it if they are doing it willfully, as they normally take it in turns.

Pep is seen as a football purist, but he only loves beautiful football when his team play it, and stops others playing it at source.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 15, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			No. We need cynical fouls in the game, it’s a vital part i feel but I think referees have got to police it properly.
		
Click to expand...

I wonder if Gomez  is sending Son a Christmas card.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 15, 2019)

I've only watched 1 minute of MOTD2, and seen 3 fouls (and bookings) on Traore from Spurs.

Jose opening his box of dirty tricks early doors.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 15, 2019)

Interesting stats regards VAR, seems Yernited are still getting more favourable decisions🤭

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/eng...e-club?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true


----------



## Slime (Dec 15, 2019)

From the link above, United weren't mentioned.
There was a guy being interviewed by a stupid woman who can't read, am I missing something?


----------



## adam6177 (Dec 16, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Lacazette is on the bench, because regardless how much he and Auba have a love in, it is next to impossible to play both of them, as they both want to play through the middle.

Pepe, Auba, Martinelli makes sense, but there is zip behind them til you get to Leno.
		
Click to expand...

For me that's more of an issue with the arsenal formation.... They're trying to play the fashionable 4-3-3 but don't have the people to do it.  For me I'd set them up 4-4-2.... You have to play to their assets.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 16, 2019)

Slime said:



			From the link above, United weren't mentioned.
There was a guy being interviewed by a stupid woman who can't read, am I missing something?
		
Click to expand...

Yes. Scroll down a little bit and you'll see 👍


----------



## Wolf (Dec 16, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			For me that's more of an issue with the arsenal formation.... They're trying to play the fashionable 4-3-3 but don't have the people to do it.  For me I'd set them up 4-4-2.... You have to play to their assets.
		
Click to expand...

Sam Allardyce just said that exact  thing on talksport and highlighted every area tha needs addressing and how it should be done.. Its a depressing day as an arsenal fan when you know  Big Sam knows more than anyone currently at the club 🤣


----------



## Bazzatron (Dec 16, 2019)

Fish said:



			Would sin bins be the answer, 10 mins for professional/cynical fouls rather than taking a yellow for the team.
		
Click to expand...

Spurs took taking one for the team to the next level yesterday. Took turns kicking Traore up in the air yesterday. Stuart Attwell was too spineless to crack down on it early.

25 different players have been booked this season trying to stop him. Just cynical fouls, he'll be seriously injured one day.


----------



## Bazzatron (Dec 16, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I've only watched 1 minute of MOTD2, and seen 3 fouls (and bookings) on Traore from Spurs.

Jose opening his box of dirty tricks early doors.
		
Click to expand...

They kicked the absolute shite out of him.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 16, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think that it should be a bit like the rugby where they can give anyone a yellow "for the next foul" when they are obviously systematically doing it as a tactic. Obviously the one who does the foul gets the booking.

Similar to when Herrera was sent off at Cheslea a few years ago because the Man U players were fouling Hazard every time he got in dangerous positions.

Most players get away with 2/3/4 fouls before they get booked, but this can shorten it if they are doing it willfully, as they normally take it in turns.

*Pep is seen as a football purist, but he only loves beautiful football when his team play it, and stops others playing it at source.*

Click to expand...



Your views do not reflect his, if it is accepted ( by him) that his players do it I would love to see a quote where he says he don't like it against his teams. I saw a piece a few weeks ago where an Arsenal player let an opposition player literally walk past him, they went on and scored. Said commentator said David Luis should of "took one for the team". It is an accepted part of the game. Whether we like it or not.


----------



## Jensen (Dec 16, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			Spurs took taking one for the team to the next level yesterday. Took turns kicking Traore up in the air yesterday. Stuart Attwell was too spineless to crack down on it early.

25 different players have been booked this season trying to stop him. Just cynical fouls, he'll be seriously injured one day.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, I noticed the number of cynical fouls committed by Spurs. Jose already implementing his tactics.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 16, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Your views do not reflect his, if it is accepted ( by him) that his players do it I would love to see a quote where he says he don't like it against his teams. I saw a piece a few weeks ago where an Arsenal player let an opposition player literally walk past him, they went on and scored. Said commentator said David Luis should of "took one for the team". It is an accepted part of the game. Whether we like it or not.
		
Click to expand...

I've recently seen footage where Arteta is telling (possibly sterling and Silva) to foul, may have been on here, so its out there, and if you can't spot it, your blind. No there isnt a quote that he doesnt like it against his teams, but in essence it's exactly the case.


----------



## pendodave (Dec 16, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Yes, I noticed the number of cynical fouls committed by Spurs. Jose already implementing his tactics.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, the first time I really noticed tactical fouling was the first time I saw us play spurs under poch (the season Leicester won the league). Press high, win the ball or foul. I think Jose has just reawakened that habit.
The way football is going, it should consider a team foul count like basketball. After, say, 5 team fouls the oppo nominates a non keeper for 10 mins in the bin.


----------



## Norrin Radd (Dec 16, 2019)

paddyc said:



			Desperately seeking manager who can stop a defence giving away comical goals. does not allow the opposition all the time and space in the world to do what they like with the ball  can get ozil playing, inject some sort pasion,  enthusiasm,  and motivate players on 300k a week  to give everything for Arsenal.
		
Click to expand...

if you want a defensive type of manager then Chris Houghton is yer man .


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 16, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			Spurs took taking one for the team to the next level yesterday. Took turns kicking Traore up in the air yesterday. Stuart Attwell was too spineless to crack down on it early.

25 different players have been booked this season trying to stop him. Just cynical fouls, he'll be seriously injured one day.
		
Click to expand...

LIke Gomez at Everton,Son hacked him down from behind no attempt for the ball = yellow.
The lads out for a very long time.


----------



## BrianM (Dec 16, 2019)

Ancelotti arrived at Goodison park for talks, decent short term appointment if offered......


----------



## Swango1980 (Dec 16, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I've only watched 1 minute of MOTD2, and seen 3 fouls (and bookings) on Traore from Spurs.

Jose opening his box of dirty tricks early doors.
		
Click to expand...

I can see the laws changing at some point, so that if it is clear a player slide tackles another player with no intent to win the ball at all, automatic red card. Still yellow for a deliberate shirt pull, but when you see Traore getting hacked down at that pace, it seems only a matter of time before he dislocates something or gets some nasty ligament damage. I wouldn't mind red cards for this. On the flip side, I'd love to see referees NOT giving fouls when it is clear a player who is shielding a ball, awaits any sort of contact from the opposition behind, and then throws themselves to the ground knowing they'll get a free kick. Fair enough if they hack them down from behind, but the defending player just uses this tactic as a Get Out of Jail free card every time when under any sort of pressure.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 16, 2019)

Swango1980 said:



			I can see the laws changing at some point, so that if it is clear a player slide tackles another player with no intent to win the ball at all, automatic red card. Still yellow for a deliberate shirt pull, but when you see Traore getting hacked down at that pace, it seems only a matter of time before he dislocates something or gets some nasty ligament damage. I wouldn't mind red cards for this. On the flip side, I'd love to see referees NOT giving fouls when it is clear a player who is shielding a ball, awaits any sort of contact from the opposition behind, and then throws themselves to the ground knowing they'll get a free kick. Fair enough if they hack them down from behind, but the defending player just uses this tactic as a Get Out of Jail free card every time when under any sort of pressure.
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure someone will say they are "nice people" and don't do that at all.....and it's all a mistake


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 16, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I've recently seen footage where Arteta is telling (possibly sterling and Silva) to foul, may have been on here, so its out there, and if you can't spot it, your blind. No there isnt a quote that he doesnt like it against his teams, but in essence it's exactly the case.
		
Click to expand...

So no evidence means it's the case. In Manchester we call that a tumble weed moment.
You said Pep dont like it but as you said his team promotes it. Of course they do. It's not exactly new news. What is new is you saying Pep dont like it but cannot justify the comment.

That aside you quoted Arteta. Get used to Arsenal doing the same for the rest of the season Coz Arteta is having his final interview with Kronke tonight. Will be gutted to see him go.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 16, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I've recently seen footage where Arteta is telling (possibly sterling and Silva) to foul, may have been on here, so its out there, and if you can't spot it, your blind. No there isnt a quote that he doesnt like it against his teams, but in essence it's exactly the case.
		
Click to expand...

City clearly go after the tactical foul - especially Fernandino and Walker , both should have had a lot more cards than either have had over the years. And as you say when it’s against City plenty of complaining City especially Pep. He was like it when he was at Barce as well 


In other news - how the hell are Arsenal letting Ancelotti go to Everton whilst they go for Arteta ?!?!? Madness to give the job to a number two who have zero experience as a manager. There must be some great drugs going around Arsenal


----------



## Fish (Dec 16, 2019)

fundy said:



			the main consideration should be Kroenke and how he runs his franchise, sadly that is likely to limit our appeal  not sure it gets us below Everton still  though lol
		
Click to expand...

It would seem highly likely that Carlo is Everton bound, that’s if personally terms and length of contract can be agreed, it’s also a request of Everton’s that Big Dunc is kept as part of his staff, which I’m not too sure about, they could have 2 very different approaches to things!  

if not, I think Moyes will get it short term, but then wouldn’t that be a kick down under for Dunc, if they can’t get a long term manager signed then why not keep Dunc on?


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 16, 2019)

I'm surprised Arsenal have gone for the inexperienced Arteta, I'm not too sure hes what they need. 

Everton will have done well to land Ancellotti.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 16, 2019)

Fish said:



			It would seem highly likely that Carlo is Everton bound, that’s if personally terms and length of contract can be agreed, it’s also a request of Everton’s that Big Dunc is kept as part of his staff, which I’m not too sure about, they could have 2 very different approaches to things! 

if not, I think Moyes will get it short term, but then wouldn’t that be a kick down under for Dunc, if they can’t get a long term manager signed then why not keep Dunc on?
		
Click to expand...

Ferguson has said he doesn’t want the job yet - not ready to take it on full time as he has more to learn. 

If Everton get Ancelotti and he is allowed to get in who he wants then Everton have the potential to challenge the likes of Chelsea , Wolves , Man Utd in those 4-8 spots


----------



## Fish (Dec 16, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ferguson has said he doesn’t want the job yet - not ready to take it on full time as he has more to learn.

If Everton get Ancelotti and he is allowed to get in who he wants then Everton have the potential to challenge the likes of Chelsea , Wolves , Man Utd in those 4-8 spots
		
Click to expand...

But do you think Carlo & Dunc could work together, Dunc is a strong character, and as you say, even though he’s a novice manager, I think his enthusiasm could be a distraction not wanted by Carlo. 

I agree, with the right manager & backing they could challenge those in that group 5-8, not sure about top 4, but you can’t rule anything out, our new signings in January will be key to us pushing on, irrelevant of what happens Sunday.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 16, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			So no evidence means it's the case. In Manchester we call that a tumble weed moment.
You said Pep dont like it but as you said his team promotes it. Of course they do. It's not exactly new news. What is new is you saying Pep dont like it but cannot justify the comment.

That aside you quoted Arteta. Get used to Arsenal doing the same for the rest of the season Coz Arteta is having his final interview with Kronke tonight. Will be gutted to see him go.
		
Click to expand...

So the FACT that his assistant has clearly encouraged his players to deliberately foul, you think it is somehow behind the managers back, and despite city's fouls per minutes when outside of possession is one of the highest, you dont think it is how it is playing out that way?

We can all have opinions without facts without necessarily having evidence available especially in subjective situations, allied to using a bit of the grey matter.

I'm sure if you asked premiership fans who they think are the worst at tactical fouling, I think 90% would say city are the worst. It was also said about Barca, when, yes you guessed it, Pep was in charge.

Draw your own conclusions then - what are they? Opinion, without fact will do.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 16, 2019)

So CL draw today 

Some tasty games 

Dortmund v PSG
Real Madrid v Man City
Atalanta v Valencia
Chelsea v Bayern Munich
Atletico Madrid v Liverpool
Lyon v Juventus
Tottenham v RB Leipzig 
Napoli v Barcelona 

Spurs could find Leipzig a tough opponent , City with a tough one , we will find Atlético a hard opponent and Chelsea getting a really bad one


----------



## Fish (Dec 16, 2019)

Confirmed: Josh Kroenke is meeting with Mikel Arteta tomorrow to offer him the Arsenal job.

Arteta will formally request that Man City terminate his contract, which has 18 months left to run. Arsenal will pay around £1million in compensation if all goes ahead as planned. 

Brendan Rodgers and Mauricio Pochettino were Arsenal’s first choices, but Rodgers signed a new deal with Leicester and Pochettino declined the offer.

Patrick Vieira, Roberto Martinez and Marcelino were all interviewed in some capacity, but the Kroenke family prefer Arteta.


----------



## Fish (Dec 16, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So CL draw today

Some tasty games

Dortmund v PSG
Real Madrid v Man City
Atalanta v Valencia
Chelsea v Bayern Munich
Atletico Madrid v Liverpool
Lyon v Juventus
Tottenham v RB Leipzig
Napoli v Barcelona

Spurs could find Leipzig a tough opponent , City with a tough one , we will find Atlético a hard opponent and Chelsea getting a really bad one
		
Click to expand...

Away to Ajax was supposed to be a deadly result for, but we surprised everyone, sometimes the bigger fixtures bring out the best in players, we can only live in hope.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 16, 2019)

Fish said:



			Away to Ajax was supposed to be a deadly result for, but we surprised everyone, sometimes the bigger fixtures bring out the best in players, we can only live in hope.
		
Click to expand...

Bayern are a big step up from Ajax - and they have just finished the group with the best record ever - they are flying in the CL right now.


----------



## Fish (Dec 16, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Bayern are a big step up from Ajax - and they have just finished the group with the best record ever - they are flying in the CL right now.
		
Click to expand...

Be a nice scalp then 😜


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 16, 2019)

I see Sky have been going big on the Arteta story and especially Arsenal board members photographed leaving his house in the early hours. Begs the question who knew they were there and were City putting tabs on Arteta? I don't think he's what Arsenal need and can't really see him doing anything to change the situation than Emry did


----------



## fundy (Dec 16, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I see Sky have been going big on the Arteta story and especially Arsenal board members photographed leaving his house in the early hours. Begs the question who knew they were there and were City putting tabs on Arteta? I don't think he's what Arsenal need and can't really see him doing anything to change the situation than Emry did
		
Click to expand...


who do you think we need then Homer?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 16, 2019)

fundy said:



			who do you think we need then Homer?
		
Click to expand...

No idea to be frank but definitely someone with more experience and definitely strong man management skills. Ancelotti signs for Everton https://www.skysports.com/football/news


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 16, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			So the FACT that his assistant has clearly encouraged his players to deliberately foul, you think it is somehow behind the managers back, and despite city's fouls per minutes when outside of possession is one of the highest, you dont think it is how it is playing out that way?

We can all have opinions without facts without necessarily having evidence available especially in subjective situations, allied to using a bit of the grey matter.

I'm sure if you asked premiership fans who they think are the worst at tactical fouling, I think 90% would say city are the worst. It was also said about Barca, when, yes you guessed it, Pep was in charge.

Draw your own conclusions then - what are they? Opinion, without fact will do.
		
Click to expand...

Have you actually read anything I have said. You said Pep don't like it when teams deliberately foul his players. No one else Said it but you. I asked you where Pep has said that. You couldn't answer it. It was your view and your view only.  I said, no one else, but me. I said Quote, Pep sends his players out to disrupt opposition teams, players like Fernandinho. I admitted that. That's not rocket science. I admitted that Arteta probably said that. Where did I suggest it was behind the managers back? My guess is he is passing on the managers instructions. I have known for a couple of years that City's fouls per minute is the highest. But back to the origanal comment by you. Pep don't like it when his players are deliberately fouled like his players could others. Nope never read it anywhere but on here.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 16, 2019)

Swango1980 said:



			I can see the laws changing at some point, so that if it is clear a player slide tackles another player with no intent to win the ball at all, automatic red card. Still yellow for a deliberate shirt pull, but when you see Traore getting hacked down at that pace, it seems only a matter of time before he dislocates something or gets some nasty ligament damage. I wouldn't mind red cards for this. On the flip side, I'd love to see referees NOT giving fouls when it is clear a player who is shielding a ball, awaits any sort of contact from the opposition behind, and then throws themselves to the ground knowing they'll get a free kick. Fair enough if they hack them down from behind, but the defending player just uses this tactic as a Get Out of Jail free card every time when under any sort of pressure.
		
Click to expand...

This I a agree with.


----------



## Fish (Dec 16, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Ancelotti signs for Everton https://www.skysports.com/football/news

Click to expand...

There's a bit of a difference 'legally' between 'agreed in principle' and 'signed' Martin.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 16, 2019)

Fish said:



			There's a bit of a difference 'legally' between 'agreed in principle' and 'signed' Martin.
		
Click to expand...

True but I can't see either party backing down at this stage.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 16, 2019)

fundy said:



			who do you think we need then Homer?
		
Click to expand...

If those comments on "random irritations" were aimed at me, lets turn it round. Who do you need? If it's Arteta why is he so much better than the manager you've just sacked. Clearly the board are taken with him so why is he so good simply for working with Pep? Granted he'll have learned a lot from him but a lot harder when standing on your own two feet. Why would he be such a good fit?


----------



## fundy (Dec 16, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			If those comments on "random irritations" were aimed at me, lets turn it round. Who do you need? If it's Arteta why is he so much better than the manager you've just sacked. Clearly the board are taken with him so why is he so good simply for working with Pep? Granted he'll have learned a lot from him but a lot harder when standing on your own two feet. Why would he be such a good fit?
		
Click to expand...

if the hat fits eh Homie  my views on the subject been posted enough i bore myself with them lol one day youll actually have an opinion rather than commenting to add another post to your count, glad ive got you a few more tonight


----------



## Fish (Dec 16, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			True but I can't see either party backing down at this stage.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed in principle = he will fully commit, or not, after going to the training ground tomorrow and see what he’s got to work with, he may then run a mile 😜😂😂


----------



## fundy (Dec 16, 2019)

Palace must be the only London side who cant actually get a proper local rival so had to bob off to the south coast and pretend they dont get on with Brighton because an Eagles better than a Seagull lol. Or am I missing something from 1897?


----------



## Wolf (Dec 16, 2019)

Can't say that if Arteta does come out of these talks as our new manager that I'll be overly impressed with it but when you look at what's available, what it costs yo get others in its not a surprise that's what our board would choose. Jury is out on this one for  me


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 16, 2019)

fundy said:



			if the hat fits eh Homie  my views on the subject been posted enough i bore myself with them lol one day youll actually have an opinion rather than commenting to add another post to your count, glad ive got you a few more tonight 

Click to expand...

So I asked a direct question on why the board see Arteta as such a good fit and clearly the preferred candidate and what he offers that is so different from Emry and you can't provide a civil answer. What will he bring that is going to be so radical


----------



## fundy (Dec 16, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			So I asked a direct question on why the board see Arteta as such a good fit and clearly the preferred candidate and what he offers that is so different from Emry and you can't provide a civil answer. What will he bring that is going to be so radical
		
Click to expand...


I have absolutely no idea why the board think what they do, theyre the main problem and unless they change at that level Arteta is sadly but the next lamb to the slaughter with the deck stacked against him who will be left to take the blame for the failings of others/the system. Doesnt surprise me they want someone with his profile (never been a manager, ex arsenal, young), they probably think he'll have learnt the whole playbook from Pep (without realising he'll need the oil money too!) but be controllable rather than a more experienced older candidate would be. They may be right but not if they dont give him the right support, which sadly would be out of character.

The better question maybe why does Arteta think its a better job than the one he has, maybe theyre making some unexpected promises


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 16, 2019)

Fish said:



			Agreed in principle = he will fully commit, or not, after going to the training ground tomorrow and see what he’s got to work with, he may then run a mile 😜😂😂
		
Click to expand...

It’s a massive coup for them attracting a manager of his ability but this is possibly the worst squad hes had to coach in his career.


----------



## SteveW86 (Dec 16, 2019)

Arsenal need someone who can organise the team, Allardyce would be perfect right now.

Arteta is unknown, risky first job though I would say....hardly a free hit, but good to see him taking a risk and stepping out from what is an “easy” job where he currently is.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 16, 2019)

fundy said:



			I have absolutely no idea why the board think what they do, theyre the main problem and unless they change at that level Arteta is sadly but the next lamb to the slaughter with the deck stacked against him who will be left to take the blame for the failings of others/the system. Doesnt surprise me they want someone with his profile (never been a manager, ex arsenal, young), they probably think he'll have learnt the whole playbook from Pep (without realising he'll need the oil money too!) but be controllable rather than a more experienced older candidate would be. They may be right but not if they dont give him the right support, which sadly would be out of character.

The better question maybe why does Arteta think its a better job than the one he has, maybe theyre making some unexpected promises
		
Click to expand...

So if Arteta is going to be a board puppet or yes man and funds are as notoriously slow to materialise for purchases as normal, what chance does he have and what exactly do the board see that no-one else seems to. He doesn't strike me as being someone with a hugely ruthless streak and so how's he going to manage some of the egos and issues around Ozil and a few others as well as finding a way to get the side playing better and building a better squad? Is it going to be Arsenal are a managerial merry-go-round for the next few years and how likely would it be that the powers that be at the top get changed


----------



## fundy (Dec 16, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			So if Arteta is going to be a board puppet or yes man and funds are as notoriously slow to materialise for purchases as normal, what chance does he have and what exactly do the board see that no-one else seems to. He doesn't strike me as being someone with a hugely ruthless streak and so how's he going to manage some of the egos and issues around Ozil and a few others as well as finding a way to get the side playing better and building a better squad? Is it going to be Arsenal are a managerial merry-go-round for the next few years and how likely would it be that the powers that be at the top get changed
		
Click to expand...


i still dont know what they see in him (see prev post) and still give him little chance unless they make other changes! Ozil really isnt the issue people want to make it (apart from the cost), hes certainly not a big ego for modern football, the only issue is the ludicrous contract the board wrote for him in panic having previously screwed up with Sanchez. 

chances of board changes sadly negligible, Stan far too happy not giving a shit from the other side of the Atlantic


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 16, 2019)

fundy said:



			i still dont know what they see in him (see prev post) and still give him little chance unless they make other changes! Ozil really isnt the issue people want to make it (apart from the cost), hes certainly not a big ego for modern football, the only issue is the ludicrous contract the board wrote for him in panic having previously screwed up with Sanchez.

chances of board changes sadly negligible, Stan far too happy not giving a shit from the other side of the Atlantic
		
Click to expand...

Serious question. Where do you see your club at the end of this season and in three years time


----------



## fundy (Dec 16, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Serious question. Where do you see your club at the end of this season and in three years time
		
Click to expand...


expect were mid table end of this season, not in Europe next year and lose the few top class assets that are left, as for 3 years time, who knows, still in mid table is probably favourite  cant see the current owners inputting the sort of cash needed that will see us back in the top 4, think we have enough resources/draw not to be down at the bottom but lets be honest the futures not bright currently compared to where we were 5+ years ago. club has destroyed so much asset value over the last few years of Wengers reign and the problems now being compounded with a lack of direction as to whats next from a board that clearly dont know what it takes to run a top football club and have no clear idea of the direction they should be taking


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 16, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Have you actually read anything I have said. You said Pep don't like it when teams deliberately foul his players. No one else Said it but you. I asked you where Pep has said that. You couldn't answer it. It was your view and your view only.  I said, no one else, but me. I said Quote, Pep sends his players out to disrupt opposition teams, players like Fernandinho. I admitted that. That's not rocket science. I admitted that Arteta probably said that. Where did I suggest it was behind the managers back? My guess is he is passing on the managers instructions. I have known for a couple of years that City's fouls per minute is the highest. But back to the origanal comment by you. Pep don't like it when his players are deliberately fouled like his players could others. Nope never read it anywhere but on here.
		
Click to expand...

I think it's you mis-reading me.

I havent said that Pep doesnt like players fouling his players, I said he is happy for City to play lovely football, but when other teams try to do it against city, city just chop them down if they beat the press.


----------



## Wolf (Dec 16, 2019)

Not premier league related but has anyone seen Italys attempt at an anti racism campaign.. A picture of 3 monkey's with their faces painted.. What absolute moron thought thats a good idea 😒


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 17, 2019)

Thing is, Arsenal have spent a boat load of cash over the last 3 to 5 years, but with no discernable recruitment strategy. More than enough to be challenging.

Emery was just the wrong hire.

Arteta will be interesting. Apparently he is far from a patsy, and is quite stubborn and willfull. 

As,a long term hire, I would not be unhappy, but the board, the fans, the players need to write off this season, and may be next as well. View it as a 3 year rebuild project. Older players like Auba, Socratis, Luiz, Ozil and may be Laca will not be part of the process.

It is up to the board to convince the fans that there is a plan. This is the tough bit, as communication is not in their skillset.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 17, 2019)

A massive night for our young lads away to an experienced side in Villa tonight, its not a fair tie but hopefully they give a good account of themselves.

Just a shame the EFL have made us play this game tonight.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			A massive night for our young lads away to an experienced side in Villa tonight, its not a fair tie but hopefully they give a good account of themselves.

Just a shame the EFL have made us play this game tonight.
		
Click to expand...

I think Villa is an ideal game for them. Not exactly pulling trees up themselves and know they're favourites to win so your lads can go out with total freedom to play and express themselves. Also a chance to put themselves in the shop window, not just to nudge Klopp but for any other club looking to buy in January


----------



## fundy (Dec 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			A massive night for our young lads away to an experienced side in Villa tonight, its not a fair tie but hopefully they give a good account of themselves.

Just a shame the EFL have made us play this game tonight.
		
Click to expand...


shouldve conceded 6 in the last round then we'd all have been happy


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 17, 2019)

Sky now reporting Ancelotti has agreed a 4 1/2 year contract with Everton, won’t believe it until I see the official club statement.

Also Sky: Pep confirms Arteta has held talks with Arsenal


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 17, 2019)

fundy said:



			shouldve conceded 6 in the last round then we'd all have been happy 

Click to expand...

😂😂😂 we even played an ineligible player in the game before.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 17, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I think Villa is an ideal game for them. Not exactly pulling trees up themselves and know they're favourites to win so your lads can go out with total freedom to play and express themselves. Also a chance to put themselves in the shop window, not just to nudge Klopp but for any other club looking to buy in January
		
Click to expand...

Oxford or Colchester I might've agreed with you but Villa are a well experienced side with many international players who've all played to a decent level consistently for years. our lads are all young lads with limited experience. 

I'm expecting Villa to win comfortably, I just hope our boys put a good performance in and try their best.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 17, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Sky now reporting Ancelotti has agreed a 4 1/2 year contract with Everton, won’t believe it until I see the official club statement.

Also Sky: Pep confirms Arteta has held talks with Arsenal
		
Click to expand...

It wouldnt be Everton if it never fell through and yous ended up with Moyes😂😂s


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 17, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Sky now reporting Ancelotti has agreed a 4 1/2 year contract with Everton, won’t believe it until I see the official club statement.

Also Sky: Pep confirms Arteta has held talks with Arsenal
		
Click to expand...

I think that’s unreal - you would expect the two appointments to be the other way around 

Criminal that Arsenal are ignoring Ancelotti


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think that’s unreal - you would expect the two appointments to be the other way around

Criminal that Arsenal are ignoring Ancelotti
		
Click to expand...

Steve McClaren on Sky saying Arteta is a perfect fit for Arsenal being that he’s an Ex-Arsenal player 

If only we knew were they signed him from?


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think that’s unreal - you would expect the two appointments to be the other way around

Criminal that Arsenal are ignoring Ancelotti
		
Click to expand...

I don't think so at all. He would be totally unsuitable for Arsenal.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 17, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			I don't think so at all. He would be totally unsuitable for Arsenal.
		
Click to expand...

he is perfect for Arsenal - he wins


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 17, 2019)

If Arteta goes to Arsenal, personally al be gutted. Good signing me finks.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 17, 2019)

Bit harsh on the Reds young lads.
But no matter what level you play you must take your chances.
They looked nervous and if we had scored they may have folded.
First two bit lucky but clinical finishing from Villa.
Think the lads have played well with no rewards as yet.


----------



## Slime (Dec 17, 2019)

Sky Sports pundits are saying how good the Liverpool kids are.
They're 4-0 down!
I must be missing something.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 17, 2019)

Slime said:



			Sky Sports pundits are saying how good the Liverpool kids are.
They're 4-0 down!
I must be missing something.
		
Click to expand...

Because the scoreline is flattering Villa and some of them are playing very well.


----------



## Slime (Dec 17, 2019)

I know the scoreline is flattering, I just think the pundits went a little over the top.
Quite happy to reserve judgement until it's all over.
It's certainly a step up for them and great experience as long as the score doesn't get silly, which I'm sure it won't.


----------



## pendodave (Dec 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			he is perfect for Arsenal - he wins
		
Click to expand...

His last few appointments have been pretty inglorious. Seems to me he's just a little over the hill. I think in Arsenal's position you need someone young and hungry. Artetta is obviously a risk, but I think he's a better type of risk.


----------



## Dan2501 (Dec 17, 2019)

Surprised people are shocked by the move for Ancelotti. You look down his list of past clubs - Juve, Milan, Chelsea, PSG, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Napoli; Everton is the obvious next step, another massive club used to success  But seriously, I'm as baffled as anyone. Moshiri and Brands pull this one off and I'll be amazed, what an absolute coup, just refuse to believe it's real until it's official though. Hope if he does join he gets time to build HIS squad. The wage budget needs thinning out before we can make any big moves I'd have thought, the likes of Niasse, Martina, Schneiderlin, Tosun and then a number of the lads out on loan need to go permanently (Bolasie, Garbutt, Besic, Sandro and Thanisaj) but then Carlo will be able to start building a squad of his own. Exciting times!

Would much rather Ancelotti than Arteta too. Proven winner, has won trophies all over Europe. Arteta is completely unproven and seems to primarily be a big target because he's been working with Pep, that, to me does not guarantee success. He's a much riskier appointment, and for me, given Everton's current situation, exactly what we cannot afford. We want solidarity, experience and ultimately results, and that's what Ancelotti brings. He brings a proven system, lauded man management and defensive organisation, 3 things Marco Silva sorely lacked.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 17, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Surprised people are shocked by the move for Ancelotti. You look down his list of past clubs - Juve, Milan, Chelsea, PSG, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Napoli; Everton is the obvious next step, another massive club used to success  But seriously, I'm as baffled as anyone. Moshiri and Brands pull this one off and I'll be amazed, what an absolute coup, just refuse to believe it's real until it's official though. Hope if he does join he gets time to build HIS squad. The wage budget needs thinning out before we can make any big moves I'd have thought, the likes of Niasse, Martina, Schneiderlin, Tosun and then a number of the lads out on loan need to go permanently (Bolasie, Garbutt, Besic, Sandro and Thanisaj) but then Carlo will be able to start building a squad of his own. Exciting times!

Would much rather Ancelotti than Arteta too. Proven winner, has won trophies all over Europe. Arteta is completely unproven and seems to primarily be a big target because he's been working with Pep, that, to me does not guarantee success. He's a much riskier appointment, and for me, given Everton's current situation, exactly what we cannot afford. We want solidarity, experience and ultimately results, and that's what Ancelotti brings. He brings a proven system, lauded man management and defensive organisation, 3 things Marco Silva sorely lacked.
		
Click to expand...

I think he will do well for you.
Your squad is ok and he will organise it.
He’s a proven winner you never lose that mentality.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 17, 2019)

Slime said:



			Sky Sports pundits are saying how good the Liverpool kids are.
They're 4-0 down!
I must be missing something.
		
Click to expand...

It’s Liverpool 🤷‍♂️


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 17, 2019)

Slime said:



			Sky Sports pundits are saying how good the Liverpool kids are.
They're 4-0 down!
I must be missing something.
		
Click to expand...

Well you know “ you never win anything with kids”
I think they are just being a bit soft on them.
Their friends and family will be watching so no slagging them off!

But they have been a bit unlucky. Villa keeper is mom up to now.
Some good lads for the future.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 17, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well you know “ you never win anything with kids”
I think they are just being a bit soft on them.
Their friends and family will be watching so no slagging them off!

But they have been a bit unlucky. Villa keeper is mom up to now.
Some good lads for the future.
		
Click to expand...

Why would anyone slag them off ? 

Average age just below 19 , couple of 16 year olds playing with Elliot one of the best on the pitch - their keeper seemed the busier of the two keepers 

A couple of clinical finishes was the difference between a Prem team and a youth team.


----------



## Slime (Dec 17, 2019)

The Elliott kid with the top knot looked really good, the others not so good.
I know they were youngsters, but Sky just seemed to get a bit carried away.
No praise yet for the Villa reserve side.
But, I guess, it's only Aston Villa.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why would anyone slag them off ?

Average age just below 19 , couple of 16 year olds playing with Elliot one of the best on the pitch - their keeper seemed the busier of the two keepers

A couple of clinical finishes was the difference between a Prem team and a youth team.
		
Click to expand...

Chill out Phil “your boys” have done you proud 👍🏻👍🏻


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why would anyone slag them off ?

Average age just below 19 , couple of 16 year olds playing with Elliot one of the best on the pitch - their keeper seemed the busier of the two keepers

A couple of clinical finishes was the difference between a Prem team and a youth team.
		
Click to expand...

You know what I meant .
Pundits have sharp tongues when it suits but tonight wasn’t one of them.

We were the best team until they scored.
Plenty of positives but against premier league players they were very unlucky.
2-0 would be more realistic. Imo.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 17, 2019)

Slime said:



			The Elliott kid with the top knot looked really good, the others not so good.
I know they were youngsters, but Sky just seemed to get a bit carried away.
No praise yet for the Villa reserve side.
But, I guess, it's only Aston Villa. 

Click to expand...

Their journalists it’s their job to make it a story.
I does make you wonder how good the finishing was from Villa ,why can’t they do that in the prem.
Villa did a good job ,but the Story is the Kids.
Normally you would have a couple of youngsters in your team ,but to have 11 is something else.

Villa were favourites to win ,so not a surprise they did.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 18, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Oxford or *Colchester* I might've agreed with you but Villa are a well experienced side with many international players who've all played to a decent level consistently for years. our lads are all young lads with limited experience.

I'm expecting Villa to win comfortably, I just hope our boys put a good performance in and try their best.
		
Click to expand...

Oi!!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 18, 2019)

Thought it was a credible performance by the Liverpool kids but you could see there was a gap in experience in certain positions and in the quality of the finishing. 5-0 definitely flattered Villa but some of the Liverpool kids did their blossoming reputations no harm at all


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 18, 2019)

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10429453/crystal-palace-neil-shipperley-sex-act-van-mum-daughter/

Dirty get.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 18, 2019)

He has put some pounds on.


----------



## fundy (Dec 18, 2019)

good to see Oxford giving City a better game than Arsenal did lol

Ancelotti getting a look at what hes let himself in for too


----------



## 3offTheTee (Dec 18, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			He has put some pounds on.
		
Click to expand...

WRONG - stones!

driving a white van after his earnings!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2019)

fundy said:



			good to see Oxford giving City a better game than Arsenal did lol

Ancelotti getting a look at what hes let himself in for too
		
Click to expand...

Someone said Everton getting Ancelotti is like getting Lewis Hamilton to race a Nissan Micra against F1 cars


----------



## fundy (Dec 18, 2019)

some hit from Baines!


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2019)

fundy said:



			some hit from Baines!
		
Click to expand...

Shame it doesn’t mean anything 😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Someone said Everton getting Ancelotti is like getting Lewis Hamilton to race a Nissan Micra against F1 cars
		
Click to expand...

*Apparently Ancelotti is having a medical at Everton tonight, he’s getting his head tested 😂😂


*Borrowed.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 18, 2019)

Got to feel sorry for Everton there, pens was always going to be a disadvantage when their goalies only got little arms😉


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 19, 2019)

Good win for Liverpool if a tad late. Thought it was a decent game too. Final should be a good one too


----------



## Slime (Dec 19, 2019)

Shhhhh, United into the semi-finals!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 19, 2019)

Nobody gives a sh!t


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 19, 2019)

Slime said:



Shhhhh, United into the semi-finals!

Click to expand...

Won’t be in the final though...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 20, 2019)

https://www.theguardian.com/global/...ootballers-in-the-world-2019?CMP=share_btn_tw

Shows the strength of the Prem League these days 

So looks like it’s Ancelotti to Everton and Arteta to Arsenal - it really does seem that the fit would be the other way around 

Ancelotti is a superb manager but I don’t see the fit with Everton 

Arteta - well it’s another number 2 taking a big job , not many prove to be successful - will Arteta break the mould


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 20, 2019)

Interesting https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50405572


----------



## need_my_wedge (Dec 20, 2019)

Lego Head confirmed as Arsenal manager. Fans need to get behind him now and give him a fair chance to turn it round, not start getting on his back if it doesn't happen in the next two or three games.


----------



## fundy (Dec 20, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Interesting https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50405572

Click to expand...


been a pretty poor decade based on that list!


----------



## fundy (Dec 20, 2019)

need_my_wedge said:



			Lego Head confirmed as Arsenal manager. Fans need to get behind him now and give him a fair chance to turn it round, not start getting on his back if it doesn't happen in the next two or three games.
		
Click to expand...

be interesting to see who fills the roles around him and if the board restructure themselves, sadly i expect not


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 20, 2019)

I am happy with the choice. I hope he is given the freedom to do what he wants, and to sell who he thinks doesn't fit his plan. If he isn't, it is doomed to failure. If he is, he is potentially the next big manager in footy. He has been highly thought of at City, and has definite opinions on how the game should be played. Bring it on. Exciting times ahead.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2019)

I hope he's given enough time to Improve that squad and its mentality, it'll take 3 seasons to improve that squad and a lot of financial backing though.


----------



## need_my_wedge (Dec 20, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			I am happy with the choice. I hope he is given the freedom to do what he wants, and to sell who he thinks doesn't fit his plan. If he isn't, it is doomed to failure. If he is, he is potentially the next big manager in footy. He has been highly thought of at City, and has definite opinions on how the game should be played. Bring it on. Exciting times ahead.
		
Click to expand...

Just watched his press conference, most definitely like the way he talked and answered questions. I thought Freddie's press conference was intelligent, but have to say I am more excited about his appointment after seeing that than I was earlier.


----------



## Slime (Dec 20, 2019)

need_my_wedge said:



			Lego Head confirmed as Arsenal manager.* Fans need to get behind him now and give him a fair chance to turn it round*, not start getting on his back if it doesn't happen in the next two or three games.
		
Click to expand...

And you call him Lego Head.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 20, 2019)

Slime said:



			And you call him Lego Head. 

Click to expand...

He has always been known among Arsenal fans as lego head. It is not derogatory, just a reflection on his perfect lego like hair.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 20, 2019)

need_my_wedge said:



			Lego Head confirmed as Arsenal manager. Fans need to get behind him now and give him a fair chance to turn it round, not start getting on his back if it doesn't happen in the next two or three games.
		
Click to expand...

Oo, I dunno, I think his hair has been grafted from a Bichon frise - that hair just isnt human.


----------



## Jensen (Dec 20, 2019)

It's a big step up from a number 2, just ask Brian Kidd , Sammy Lee


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2019)

Jensen said:



			It's a big step up from a number 2, just ask Brian Kidd , Sammy Lee
		
Click to expand...

I was trying to think this afternoon, who was the last number 2 to successfully step up. There are a stack who have failed but I can't think of a recent one who has managed it.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.theguardian.com/global/...ootballers-in-the-world-2019?CMP=share_btn_tw

Shows the strength of the Prem League these days

So looks like it’s Ancelotti to Everton and Arteta to Arsenal - it really does seem that the fit would be the other way around

Ancelotti is a superb manager but I don’t see the fit with Everton

Arteta - well it’s another number 2 taking a big job , not many prove to be successful - will Arteta break the mould
		
Click to expand...

so do you approve of the Ancelotti appointment or not? 🤔🤷‍♂️.

It appears that you are suggesting that Everton have got a manager who is too good for them & you really want to discuss it.
would you rather they go with a mediocre manger & know their place?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 20, 2019)

Jensen said:



			It's a big step up from a number 2, just ask Brian Kidd , Sammy Lee
		
Click to expand...

The last bloke was experienced 🤷‍♂️.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I was trying to think this afternoon, who was the last number 2 to successfully step up. There are a stack who have failed but I can't think of a recent one who has managed it.
		
Click to expand...

Chris Houghton done a good job at both Brighton and Newcastle.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 20, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I was trying to think this afternoon, who was the last number 2 to successfully step up. There are a stack who have failed but I can't think of a recent one who has managed it.
		
Click to expand...

Colin Harvey won the League before Football was invented when he took over from Howard Kendall.


----------



## Jensen (Dec 20, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Chris Houghton done a good job at both Brighton and Newcastle.
		
Click to expand...

.....until he was sacked by BOTH


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 20, 2019)

Jensen said:



			.....until he was sacked by BOTH
		
Click to expand...

Doesn't make him a bad manager. 

Point stands.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 20, 2019)

Yeah at least if you go for experience you know it’s going to go well.
Van gaal,Jose ,Scolari,Hodgson.


----------



## Jensen (Dec 20, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yeah at least if you go for experience you know it’s going to go well.
Van gaal,Jose ,Scolari,Hodgson.
		
Click to expand...

P

Oh, don't worry there's still time for The Poison One.....


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 20, 2019)

Jensen said:



			It's a big step up from a number 2, just ask Brian Kidd , Sammy Lee
		
Click to expand...

What about your very own Jose? Was just a translator


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 20, 2019)

EVERY manager is a gamble & very few last more than a few seasons.
Obviously we can all point out the inexperienced ones that fail,but I’d bet a lot more “experienced” ones also fail.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 20, 2019)

I like the idea of Arteta coming in with his affiliation to the club. I think the fans will buy into that, at least initially and many I feel have already written off this season really, certainly in the PL. I hope the board give him some cash to spend if necessary in January and definitely in the summer. If he can light a spark into Ozil and get him back to the player he can be then that's like a new player coming in. Three and a half year contract but I think he'll need all of that time to really see progress and make a difference


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 20, 2019)

I wasn't saying a number 2 can't step up, it just doesn't happen that often successfully. Of the names mentioned only Chris Hughton is relatively recent.


----------



## Wolf (Dec 20, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I like the idea of Arteta coming in with his affiliation to the club. I think the fans will buy into that, at least initially and many I feel have already written off this season really, certainly in the PL. I hope the board give him some cash to spend if necessary in January and definitely in the summer. If he can light a *spark into Ozil* and get him back to the player he can be then that's like a new player coming in. Three and a half year contract but I think he'll need all of that time to really see progress and make a difference
		
Click to expand...

Would prefer him to blow that spark firmly and onto another club


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 20, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Would prefer him to blow that spark firmly and onto another club
		
Click to expand...

But who'll take him in those wages? Surely better, certainly short term to try and get him back on board and playing the football he showed a few seasons back. That goes to a few players to be fair. I think the man management side is going to be Arteta's biggest challenge and getting the whole squad gelled, playing a system they understand and believe in (certainly not evidence under Emery)


----------



## fundy (Dec 20, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But who'll take him in those wages? Surely better, certainly short term to try and get him back on board and playing the football he showed a few seasons back. That goes to a few players to be fair. I think the man management side is going to be Arteta's biggest challenge and getting the whole squad gelled, playing a system they understand and believe in (certainly not evidence under Emery)
		
Click to expand...


Fenerbache hopefully

And for me no, Id take the opposite approach and expect Arteta to, anyone who doesnt want to commit 100% can do one in January and then rebuild from there. Plenty of chatter from players agents, mates etc, expect Arteta to find out whos in and whos out very quickly. Could be a fun window


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 20, 2019)

fundy said:



			Fenerbache hopefully

And for me no, Id take the opposite approach and expect Arteta to, anyone who doesnt want to commit 100% can do one in January and then rebuild from there. Plenty of chatter from players agents, mates etc, expect Arteta to find out whos in and whos out very quickly. Could be a fun window
		
Click to expand...

But surely that's reliant on the board stumping up cash. Not always their strong point


----------



## fundy (Dec 20, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But surely that's reliant on the board stumping up cash. Not always their strong point
		
Click to expand...

my views on the board well known lol


----------



## Kellfire (Dec 20, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I was trying to think this afternoon, who was the last number 2 to successfully step up. There are a stack who have failed but I can't think of a recent one who has managed it.
		
Click to expand...

Mourinho’s done all right.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 20, 2019)

fundy said:



			my views on the board well known lol
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. I think they'll make or break Arteta's tenture though. If he doesn't get the scope to rebuild its a futile job for anyone


----------



## Wolf (Dec 20, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But who'll take him in those wages? Surely better, certainly short term to try and get him back on board and playing the football he showed a few seasons back. That goes to a few players to be fair. I think the man management side is going to be Arteta's biggest challenge and getting the whole squad gelled, playing a system they understand and believe in (certainly not evidence under Emery)
		
Click to expand...

Not all even with those wages rather see him far from the team, along with anyone of the same attitude


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 20, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Not all even with those wages rather see him far from the team, along with anyone of the same attitude
		
Click to expand...

Yes, I would go with Arteta. Anyone not on board, bin them off. However famous, popular, wages what ever. The future is with the coaches vision. If you don't fit, get out. Clear the way for those who do fit the dream. Then we will see how far it goes. Half hearted never won zip. Buy in 100% and see where it goes.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 20, 2019)

Ozil. When he plays well, awsome. What a player. Bizarrely, even if playing badly, has the hump when subbed. He must care, but doesn't show it on the pitch, to any great extent.

But, on any given week, a bit meh. Not sure how any coach gets the best Ozil. It's a shame, as he is brilliant when fired up.

But, 18m a year. 18m. It is a boat load of cash. If you subsidised his wages elsewhere by 13m, you would still save 5m. Got to be done. Just has to.

Artet needs to be brutal. Very.


----------



## Wolf (Dec 20, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Yes, I would go with Arteta. Anyone not on board, bin them off. However famous, popular, wages what ever. The future is with the coaches vision. If you don't fit, get out. Clear the way for those who do fit the dream. Then we will see how far it goes. Half hearted never won zip. Buy in 100% and see where it goes.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely Murph, we need to allow Arteta the freedom to root the poor attitudes out of the squad. Whether thats Ozil, Auba or any other player. Its now got to be fully about the managers vision and implementing that, if player's don't like  it cash in and move on. I wasn't enamoured at the idea of Arteta at first but more i think about it, the fact he's young and has a good idea of what he wants im quite excited about it. Now we need to let him do what he wants as manager and support that


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 21, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Ozil. When he plays well, awsome. What a player. Bizarrely, even if playing badly, has the hump when subbed. He must care, but doesn't show it on the pitch, to any great extent.

But, on any given week, a bit meh. Not sure how any coach gets the best Ozil. It's a shame, as he is brilliant when fired up.

But, 18m a year. 18m. It is a boat load of cash. If you subsidised his wages elsewhere by 13m, you would still save 5m. Got to be done. Just has to.

Artet needs to be brutal. Very.
		
Click to expand...

Ozil is a joke. He's more an activist than a footballer. And Arsenal are mugs for footing the bill. He is finished and has been for 2 years. Yet got rewarded with a new deal as a farewell gift from Wenger  He was good when he was up and coming, got his move to Real and was brilliant under Mourinho who kept him motivated. Wenger and Ozil was the worst possible combo.

Really poor appointment from Arsenal on Arteta. No experience, nothing about himself just a Pep yes man. Even Everton didn't want him and he was there for 8 years. He's nothing more than a coach who will tow the owners line.


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 21, 2019)

Slime said:



			United have no midfield.
Pogba's been out since September and only turns up when he's in the mood.
Apart from him we have kids or snails.
Woodward is in charge of transfers and seems to only have the ability to work on one deal at a time.
He'll then try and chip a few £million off which just prolongs the process for a few more weeks.
Ole doesn't stand a chance in the short term and probably won't be given a chance long term.
		
Click to expand...

Pogba is a luxury player and should be bombed while he's worth the same value as you paid for him. Loads of talent but a dogshit attitude. Not fit to clean Scholes boots as a midfielder.

Woodward failed Moyes, failed LVG and Mourinho. Mourinho won two trophies and then finished 2nd and wasn't afforded backing in the transfer market. Man Utd finished above Liverpool 18 months ago believe it or not. Klopp was backed big time, Jose got a Derby reject and Fred  No wonder it went tits up. Ole was the wrong man and has done nothing. Yeah he won a few big games recently but a broken clock is right twice a day. He plays old skool counter attack football that is dated and basic. He has a worse record over 38 league games than Mourinho did and that includes Mourinho's demise and Ole's brilliant start. He's a medicore manager and will cost United but he's unsackable. He was Woodward's rash appointment and any sacking would damage Woodward even more. 

Talk of the Man Utd way and signing young players are just a smokescreen to hide both Woodward's and Ole's incompetence.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 21, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Mourinho’s done all right.
		
Click to expand...

Recent is what I was looking for, Mourinho stopped being a number 2 nearly 2 decades ago.If we are going historical I'll take your Mourinho and raise you Bob Paisley but that is missing the point of the question.


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 21, 2019)

A Watford an Leicester double looks tempting


----------



## fundy (Dec 21, 2019)

If Arteta wasnt aware of how big a job hes got ahead of him todays team sheet might give him an idea!!!!

A keeper who is greatly improved and who we may struggle to keep hold  of, no recognised full backs, 2 young midfielders playing out of position. 2 centre halves both whose best performances have recent years have come in midfield and dont have an ounce of pace between them. 2 central midfielders who want to leave (one who will be gratefully driven wherever he wants to go!), 3 promising youngsters and a top class striker whos in the window hoping for the big move away in january.

In other news Everton paying Ancelotti 11.5m a year on all accounts


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 21, 2019)

fundy said:



			If Arteta wasnt aware of how big a job hes got ahead of him todays team sheet might give him an idea!!!!

A keeper who is greatly improved and who we may struggle to keep hold  of, no recognised full backs, 2 young midfielders playing out of position. 2 centre halves both whose best performances have recent years have come in midfield and dont have an ounce of pace between them. 2 central midfielders who want to leave (one who will be gratefully driven wherever he wants to go!), 3 promising youngsters and a top class striker whos in the window hoping for the big move away in january.

In other news Everton paying Ancelotti 11.5m a year on all accounts
		
Click to expand...

What’s your thoughts on team selection?
Would you have done different ?
To be honest I doubt if an Arsenal supporter would have picked that team.
It tells me he’s trying to make a statement it’s my way or the highway to the big players.
Young players will always work hard and he needs that today


----------



## fundy (Dec 21, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			What’s your thoughts on team selection?
Would you have done different ?
To be honest I doubt if an Arsenal supporter would have picked that team.
It tells me he’s trying to make a statement it’s my way or the highway to the big players.
Young players will always work hard and he needs that today
		
Click to expand...


Think this is more Freddies last team than Artetas first, no surprise he picked a lot of "his" youth team  

If it was me Id have played Aubameyang Pepe and Lacazette up top and told them to have a go, were going to concede goals might as well try to fight fire with fire


Hard to know what you pick at the back, were not filled with options when all are fit, even worse when you have Tierney, Kolasinac, Bellerin, Holding, Sokratis unavailable


----------



## Wolf (Dec 21, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			What’s your thoughts on team selection?
Would you have done different ?
To be honest I doubt if an Arsenal supporter would have picked that team.
It tells me he’s trying to make a statement it’s my way or the highway to the big players.
Young players will always work hard and he needs that today
		
Click to expand...

That's Freddie last team as Arteta doesn't take over until tomorrow. But Arteta will get to see how thin we are.


----------



## Fish (Dec 21, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So looks like it’s Ancelotti to Everton and Arteta to Arsenal - it really does seem that the fit would be the other way around

Ancelotti is a superb manager but I don’t see the fit with Everton
		
Click to expand...

Well after 30+ minutes of this, I'd say Arteta's got a bigger job on his hands than Ancelotti, I think Carlos has got it right imo.


----------



## fundy (Dec 21, 2019)

Fish said:



			Well after 30+ minutes of this, I'd say Arteta's got a bigger job on his hands than Ancelotti, I think Carlos has got it right imo.
		
Click to expand...


you want the season bet for this year or next year or both?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 21, 2019)

Arsenal are in trouble now, Dunc has taken his jacket off 😁

Why do footballers find it so incredibly hard to put in a decent cross for a corner? Awful quality so far.


----------



## fundy (Dec 21, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Arsenal are in trouble now, Dunc has taken his jacket off 😁
		
Click to expand...

think ill start to worry when he starts to lace his boots up and brings himself on


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 21, 2019)

fundy said:



			think ill start to worry when he starts to lace his boots up and brings himself on 

Click to expand...

Not sure I can see young Saka lasting another 30 mins without picking up a second yellow. He has had a good game but he is pushing his luck.


----------



## fundy (Dec 21, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Not sure I can see young Saka lasting another 30 mins without picking up a second yellow. He has had a good game but he is pushing his luck.
		
Click to expand...

penalty/red card seems all some of your side are playing for lol


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 21, 2019)

fundy said:



			penalty/red card seems all some of your side are playing for lol
		
Click to expand...

Stop kicking them then 😂


----------



## paddyc (Dec 21, 2019)

Sounds like its another vintage Arsenal  performance, not watching. Doing the housework ready for crimbo probably a better use of my time?!


----------



## fundy (Dec 21, 2019)

paddyc said:



			Sounds like its another vintage Arsenal  performance, not watching. Doing the housework ready for crimbo probably a better use of my time?!
		
Click to expand...


youve not missed much Pat lol


----------



## fundy (Dec 21, 2019)

haha big Dunc at it again, subbing his sub lol


----------



## fundy (Dec 21, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Stop kicking them then 😂
		
Click to expand...

Siggurdson a lucky boy on a yellow too


----------



## fundy (Dec 21, 2019)

hard to argue either side deserved anything more than 0-0 from that game! neither manager should be under any illusion of whats ahead at least


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 21, 2019)

Mmmm, I wonder where this will be on the MotD list 🤔


----------



## Wolf (Dec 21, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Mmmm, I wonder where this will be on the MotD list 🤔
		
Click to expand...

During the credits, 😂
Got so bored watching it i went out for a run. 

Be hard for Arteta watching that to take anything from it other than realisation of how drastic a job he has with us


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 21, 2019)

Wolf said:



			During the credits, 😂
Got so bored watching it i went out for a run.

Be hard for Arteta watching that to take anything from it other than realisation of how drastic a job he has with us
		
Click to expand...

Given that he watched us play city, albeit from the other dug out, I think he knows anyway.


----------



## need_my_wedge (Dec 21, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Given that he watched us play city, albeit from the other dug out, I think he knows anyway.
		
Click to expand...

I didn't see it, not quite what we hoped for but will take a point away with no goals conceded today. Now Arteta can get involved and start driving the wasters, whether that's be forwards or out of the club I don't mind, just want to see more  positives in the matches going foraward.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 21, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1208394095829409794
Top man


----------



## Robin Hood (Dec 21, 2019)

Only took 27 games - Almiron finally scores for The Toon.
Haway the Lads.
"Toon Toon, BlacknWhite Army"


----------



## Jensen (Dec 21, 2019)

Robin Hood said:



			Only took 27 games - Almiron finally scores for The Toon.
Haway the Lads.
"Toon Toon, BlacknWhite Army"
		
Click to expand...


That's his wish list answered from Santa 🎅 

PS What part of the Toon are you from ?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 21, 2019)

Sat through the Everton v Arsenal game. That was a tough watch for a neutral and both new managers have some big issues to sort. From Everton, why was Tom Davies on the pitch. Total rubbish. I thought the Arsenal youngsters tried hard but there is still a lack of cohesion and still far too open in midfield and the back which a better team would have exposed and which needs the senior players to step up and help them on the pitch. If Arteta can really get the youngsters to work (like Wenger did with his young players for a lot of his career) then there are some promising players.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 21, 2019)

How was that pen not overturned


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 21, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sat through the Everton v Arsenal game. That was a tough watch for a neutral and both new managers have some big issues to sort. From Everton, why was Tom Davies on the pitch. Total rubbish. I thought the Arsenal youngsters tried hard but there is still a lack of cohesion and still far too open in midfield and the back which a better team would have exposed and which needs the senior players to step up and help them on the pitch. If Arteta can really get the youngsters to work (like Wenger did with his young players for a lot of his career) then there are some promising players.
		
Click to expand...

Don't be too hard on Davies, he was played out of position today and it showed. He is a busy central midfielder, not a player out wide. He is a good player, today was not his day.


----------



## Dan2501 (Dec 21, 2019)

How's he not given a free-kick there? Was 100% a foul, the debate was penalty or free-kick for me, and it's mad that it wasn't given.


----------



## sawtooth (Dec 21, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			How's he not given a free-kick there? Was 100% a foul, the debate was penalty or free-kick for me, and it's mad that it wasn't given.
		
Click to expand...

Good decision , no foul but no dive either.

Accidental coming together ref viewed it very carefully so that’s what he must have saw also.

Manes leg travels backwards as it would be because he is just about to pull the trigger.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 21, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			How's he not given a free-kick there? Was 100% a foul, the debate was penalty or free-kick for me, and it's mad that it wasn't given.
		
Click to expand...

I think it’s simply because the only angle he’s Been shown doesn’t clearly show the foul. He was only meant to be clarifying in or out.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 21, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Good decision , no foul but no dive either.

*Accidental coming together *ref viewed it very carefully so that’s what he must have saw also.

Manes leg travels backwards as it would be because he is just about to pull the trigger.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂 Pathetic. 

It was a mistimed lunge from Rafinha, was nowhere near the ball and impeded Mane from a clean strike, far from a accidental coming together. A nailed on free kick. Those fouls are given every week, apart from today.


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 21, 2019)

Hey Richarlison, what times motd on bro?





Didn’t we win a cup there? Or did I miss us picking it up....


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 21, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Hey Richarlison, what times motd on bro?





Didn’t we win a cup there? Or did I miss us picking it up....
		
Click to expand...

Red button quick


----------



## Jensen (Dec 21, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Hey Richarlison, what times motd on bro?
		
Click to expand...

Bloody hell, you have more repeats than the BBC


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 21, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Good decision , no foul but no dive either.

Accidental coming together ref viewed it very carefully so that’s what he must have saw also.

Manes leg travels backwards as it would be because he is just about to pull the trigger.
		
Click to expand...

Nice of you to say it wasn’t a dive.
But a coming together? From behind didn’t get the ball.
He only viewed one angle to determine in or out the box.
So it’s a foul and a red card.


----------



## Bazzatron (Dec 21, 2019)

Well done to the BBC, cutting a trophy presentation to show Michael McIntyre.


----------



## Jensen (Dec 21, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			Well done to the BBC, cutting a trophy presentation to show Michael McIntyre.
		
Click to expand...

It was a cracking programme though, particularly as Wrighty was on there 😄


----------



## sawtooth (Dec 21, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			😂😂😂 Pathetic.

It was a mistimed lunge from Rafinha, was nowhere near the ball and impeded Mane from a clean strike, far from a accidental coming together. A nailed on free kick. Those fouls are given every week, apart from today.
		
Click to expand...

Your bias has no limits, you must live in a very red world looking through those specs all of the time Stu.

So you know better than a fully qualified official that studied the footage on a TV monitor? Or I suppose he’s being dishonest?


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 21, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Your bias has no limits, you must live in a very red world looking through those specs all of the time Stu.

So you know better than a fully qualified official that studied the footage on a TV monitor? Or I suppose he’s being dishonest?
		
Click to expand...

The match day officials (VAR) ruled it a foul and simply wanted his opinion for inside or outside box. He didn’t see the angles that showed it as an obvious foul. The ref made a mistake in his interpretation of their request. 

Are you really suggesting that a defender that slides in for a tackle makes accidental contact?

As to your final line. Can we use that every time you accuse Mane of diving when the ref gives. Pen.....


----------



## sawtooth (Dec 21, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			The match day officials (VAR) ruled it a foul and simply wanted his opinion for inside or outside box. He didn’t see the angles that showed it as an obvious foul. The ref made a mistake in his interpretation of their request.

Are you really suggesting that a defender that slides in for a tackle makes accidental contact?

As to your final line. Can we use that every time you accuse Mane of diving when the ref gives. Pen.....
		
Click to expand...

Ref didn’t give it after studying slow motion and frame by frame footage. He saw no wrong doing and I agree with him. 

A player sliding in to win the ball can accidentally clip the player sure. Here was 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Mane pulled his leg back to shoot and caught the man behind. 

If you have your own opinion and conspiracy theory that’s fine by me.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 21, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Your bias has no limits, you must live in a very red world looking through those specs all of the time Stu.

So you know better than a fully qualified official that studied the footage on a TV monitor? Or I suppose he’s being dishonest?
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂😂😂 You're deluded.

I've seen great sliding tackles when the ball has been won penalised and yellow cards given in the PL over the last 20yrs

Tonight, Rafinha made a sliding tackle from behind-Fact-, never won the ball -fact-, impeded Mane from having a clear strike at the ball.-fact-. No bias that's what I seen with my own eyes.

Going by that refs performance tonight yes I am a better ref than him!! Even Homer our resident qualified ref wouldve done a better job than him tonight.


----------



## Kellfire (Dec 22, 2019)

Interesting to see if Robertson is punished if it’s true he has been recorded admitting to intending to hurt Rafinha.


----------



## Kellfire (Dec 22, 2019)

Definitely no foul on Mane. The shot is away and then he does his thing of “making the most” of what little contact there is to try to win a penalty. Not sure why he wasn’t sent off for a second yellow which could’ve changed the end result.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 22, 2019)

If I've ever seen a reffing performance by someone who doesnt "know the game", it was last night.

Okay, I understand if we cant have a European or South American ref, but who not a CONCACAF ref, Egyptian, Chinese, Japanese ref, or someone who has at least reffed regularly in front of large crowds. He was shocking.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 22, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			If I've ever seen a reffing performance by someone who doesnt "know the game", it was last night.

Okay, I understand if we cant have a European or South American ref, but who not a CONCACAF ref, Egyptian, Chinese, Japanese ref, or someone who has at least reffed regularly in front of large crowds. He was shocking.
		
Click to expand...

you lot really do have it bad when it comes to referee selection.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 22, 2019)

Oh dear. 

De Gea ending the year like he started it.....


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 22, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Oh dear.

De Gea ending the year like he started it.....
		
Click to expand...

Is De Gea the new Joe Hart? He has gone from being one of the best in the world to becoming a problem.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 22, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Is De Gea the new Joe Hart? He has gone from being one of the best in the world to becoming a problem.
		
Click to expand...

Im not sure so sure. 

De Gea defo reached higher heights than Hart and I don’t recall him being as error prone this season as last. Still probably in the top 3 keepers in the league, just not the clear No.1 he was.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 22, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Im not sure so sure.

De Gea defo reached higher heights than Hart and I don’t recall him being as error prone this season as last. Still probably in the top 3 keepers in the league, just not the clear No.1 he was.
		
Click to expand...

It is the decline that is similar, and worrying. For a good few years I would have had De Gea as the best keeper in the league. Last season he made some really poor errors, today was Sunday morning pub stuff. 

I can't agree with how you rank him now, I don't think he is anywhere near top 3.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Is De Gea the new Joe Hart? He has gone from being one of the best in the world to becoming a problem.
		
Click to expand...

No DDG is just making odd mistakes, costly ones too. Players arent machines, they do have a dip in form. 

Joe Hart has never been nowhere near the standard DDG has been at.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It is the decline that is similar, and worrying. For a good few years I would have had De Gea as the best keeper in the league. Last season he made some really poor errors, today was Sunday morning pub stuff.

I can't agree with how you rank him now, I don't think he is anywhere near top 3.
		
Click to expand...

Name 3 better than DDG? 

I can only think of Becker and Ederson


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 22, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It is the decline that is similar, and worrying. For a good few years I would have had De Gea as the best keeper in the league. Last season he made some really poor errors, today was Sunday morning pub stuff.

I can't agree with how you rank him now, I don't think he is anywhere near top 3.
		
Click to expand...

Who would you have 3-5th?

Think top 2 are clear, but even last year I think DDG save ratio was better than the rest. Remember he does face more shots than most 😂😂


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 22, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			No DDG is just making odd mistakes, costly ones too. Players arent machines, they do have a dip in form.

Joe Hart has never been nowhere near the standard DDG has been at.
		
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, De Gea has been way better than Hart. My comparison was meant to relate to a quick decline, not comparative skills..

His errors are big ones now, that is the worry. Errors he didn't make before. The question is whether this is just a dip or whether it becomes more than that.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 22, 2019)

De Gea a top 3 keeper. 😳He is behind ederson and man with girls name. So top three, there's a discussion for the next day or so. 
That aside I don't know what's more shocking, the score line or Pogbas hair.  It's deffo up there with Mendys headscarf.


----------



## Slime (Dec 22, 2019)

United are playing like total strangers, it's weird.
Their first touch is just awful, it's like a team of Danny Welbecks!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 22, 2019)

Based on current form, not old De Gea, I would put the obvious 1 and 2. I'd have the following ahead of him too:

Leno, Arsenal
Schmeichel, Leicester
Kepa, Chelsea

That is 5 keepers ahead of him right now, imo. Go back 12 months, and the previous 3-4 years and I would have had him number 1 every year.

Edit, I'll throw in the Wolves keeper too.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 22, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Name 3 better than DDG? 

I can only think of Becker and Ederson
		
Click to expand...

Fabainski last season but had the worst defence 

Leno is up there


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 22, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Based on current form, not old De Gea, I would put the obvious 1 and 2. I'd have the following ahead of him too:

Leno, Arsenal
Schmeichel, Leicester
Kepa, Chelsea

That is 5 keepers ahead of him right now, imo. Go back 12 months, and the previous 3-4 years and I would have had him number 1 every year.

Edit, I'll throw in the Wolves keeper too.
		
Click to expand...

I really don’t rate Leno, not sure why. 

Think Schmeicel is decent. 
This season I think Kepa has had a few moments. 

I think the biggest issue with DDG is that he was SO go that now he appears worse than he actually is. A bit like the David James effect. He was no better at Pompey than he was at Liverpool. Just expectations meant he went from being viewed as a calamity to a world beater. 

I would concede though that a case can now be made for many keepers to at least rival him where as he was untouchable for years.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 22, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Based on current form, not old De Gea, I would put the obvious 1 and 2. I'd have the following ahead of him too:

Leno, Arsenal
Schmeichel, Leicester
Kepa, Chelsea

That is 5 keepers ahead of him right now, imo. Go back 12 months, and the previous 3-4 years and I would have had him number 1 every year.

Edit, I'll throw in the Wolves keeper too.
		
Click to expand...

Forgot mini peter


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2019)

There’s no way any of those keepers are better than DDG. Current form or not.


----------



## Piece (Dec 22, 2019)

Merry Fluckin Christmas! 😎😁


----------



## Bazzatron (Dec 22, 2019)

Piece said:



			Merry Fluckin Christmas! 😎😁
		
Click to expand...

Congrats on the win... Deeney penalty stirred up some painful memories


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 22, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Forgot mini peter
		
Click to expand...

?


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2019)

Yernited are a fragile mess.Wonderful to see.


----------



## GG26 (Dec 22, 2019)

Clear penalty given by VAR for Chelsea, correctly overturning the refs decision.  Why, therefore did Leicester not get one last night when Ederson took out Harvey Barnes?


----------



## Jensen (Dec 22, 2019)

Tottenham poor first half. Don't know  how sissoko wasn't booked for challenge on keeper.
Talking of keepers what was that clown doing for the penalty. Bottle job


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 22, 2019)

GG26 said:



			Clear penalty given by VAR for Chelsea, correctly overturning the refs decision.  Why, therefore did Leicester not get one last night when Ederson took out Harvey Barnes?
		
Click to expand...

Is that the one where Barnes had a clear chance and hit the corner flag yet Barnes and ederson came together and now it's a penalty. That's probably why it was not a penalty.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 22, 2019)

Am starting to think @pauljames87 may have seen what others haven’t. That’s another dirty move by Son.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 22, 2019)

"Son's not a dirty player...he's one of the nicest"
Wasn't that the narrative after last time?


----------



## Jensen (Dec 22, 2019)

Is Mourinho (The Poison One) still on the Chelsea payroll 😄


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 22, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Am starting to think @pauljames87 may have seen what others haven’t. That’s another dirty move by Son.
		
Click to expand...

Yet he plays the nice card straight away

Come on.. never touched him

Defender made a meal of it completely 

However he proper kicked out

Not having a bad word said tho lol nicest footballer ever


----------



## GG26 (Dec 22, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Is that the one where Barnes had a clear chance and hit the corner flag yet Barnes and ederson came together and now it's a penalty. That's probably why it was not a penalty.
		
Click to expand...

That doesn’t prevent it being a penalty as the goalkeeper missed the ball and wiped out the player, same as happened today.


----------



## Fish (Dec 22, 2019)

Those that are saying that’s not a red or is too harsh, it’s the intent, you can throw a punch and not land it, it’s still the intent, and Son, the so-called nice man, has always had a streak in him, but now if VAR is used correctly, you can’t hide from those snide kick outs.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 22, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			?
		
Click to expand...

Mini pete schmicheal


----------



## GG26 (Dec 22, 2019)

I like Son, but that was a red card.  Petulant.


----------



## Jensen (Dec 22, 2019)

Fish said:



			Those that are saying that’s not a red or is too harsh, it’s the intent, you can throw a punch and not land it, it’s still the intent, and Son, the so-called nice man, has always had a streak in him, but now if VAR is used correctly, you can’t hide from those snide kick outs.
		
Click to expand...

Behave, the way Son fell it was a natural reaction for his legs to kick out, pause then kick out again 😂😂😂


----------



## Jensen (Dec 22, 2019)

Aurier is a massive liability


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2019)

That's a yellow card. It was petulant and stupid not violent. Rudiger had a hand in making it a red card, lying on the floor holding his stomach looking over his shoulder. If he's in that much pain he's not looking at the ref.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 22, 2019)

GG26 said:



			That doesn’t prevent it being a penalty as the goalkeeper missed the ball and wiped out the player, same as happened today.
		
Click to expand...

Depends if your running towards goal, or running towards row Z for a meat and potato pie. He had a clear chance and missed. Ederson closed him down and they collided. Ederson closed down Vardy but Vardy scored a fantastic goal. Do we bring it back coz there was no coming together.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 22, 2019)

GG26 said:



			I like Son, but that was a red card.  Petulant.
		
Click to expand...

For me he has shown it in patches and more often now 

Last season against us left one on Snodgrass off the ball

Sent off against bouremeuth for losing his 'cool' when fouled 

The Gomez tackle 

Now this kick out for a deserved red 

He's a good player ability wise but defo not this nicest guy in football spurs fans portray him as


----------



## Jensen (Dec 22, 2019)

Before kick off, based on form and on paper I had this down as a home banker.
Very poor Tottenham performance, little midfield input. Players not  fired up, bad tactics. How can Mourinho not capitalise against coming into this.


----------



## Fish (Dec 22, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Before kick off, based on form and on paper I had this down as a home banker.
Very poor Tottenham performance, little midfield input. Players not  fired up, bad tactics. How can Mourinho not capitalise against coming into this.
		
Click to expand...

We’ve been weak & exposed in a couple of areas, and as we don’t have the players to plug those weaknesses, Jose didn’t expect a back 3 and that formation and tactically was out thought by Frank. Add in much more desire by our players, it became apparent very quickly we wanted it more. We were clinical for once and dominated areas and not only winning was a great result for us after a bad run, but a clean sheet is a huge lift for us. Top 4 for Christmas, what a great prezzie 😎


----------



## dronfield (Dec 22, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Name 3 better than DDG? 

I can only think of Becker and Ederson
		
Click to expand...

Us Blades are just hoping Utd dont recall Dean Henderson - was thinking we might try and make his move perm in Jan!


----------



## Fish (Dec 22, 2019)

Jose embarrassing himself


----------



## Jensen (Dec 22, 2019)

Fish said:



			Jose embarrassing himself
		
Click to expand...

AGAIN !


----------



## 4LEX (Dec 22, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Aurier is a massive liability
		
Click to expand...

That's being kind. Aurier and the likes of Mendy, Bakayoko and Fred are £180m worth of toilet juice. Can't tackle, no first touch, no passing ability and no quality whatsoever. 

Spurs need a new midfield that is clear. They were pathetic at Man Utd and were again today. Jose will bring in those with the right minerals and offload those who haven't got it. They'll get Top 4 though.

After a few fortunate wins Ole is back at his usual level. The poor man's Henrik Larsson as a player and poor man's Roy Keane as a manager. Forget De Gea's mistakes.....is there a more overrated and useless striker than Martial? Lukaku was basic but was ten times the striker Martial ever will be. To offload one of the few 20 goal strikers and replace him with a statue beggars belief.

Man Utd are frankly embarrassing. To have such vast income, spend £600m on players in 5 years and end up with that squad and and manager you can only laugh.

Congratulations Liverpool on the World Club Cup. Ground it out but did England proud and played with the right attitude.


----------



## Fish (Dec 22, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Aurier is a massive liability
		
Click to expand...

I thought he took a couple of good throw-ins 😜😏


----------



## sawtooth (Dec 22, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			That's a yellow card. It was petulant and stupid not violent. Rudiger had a hand in making it a red card, lying on the floor holding his stomach looking over his shoulder. If he's in that much pain he's not looking at the ref.
		
Click to expand...

He thrust his legs upwards violently towards the opponents chest/face.

Most obvious red that I’ve seen in a long time.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2019)

Fish said:



			Jose embarrassing himself
		
Click to expand...

Come on fishy, he's got a valid point. It was a yellow but both Rudigers reaction and VAR slowing it down  to a still made it a red.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			He thrust his legs upwards violently towards the opponents chest/face.

Most obvious red that I’ve seen in a long time.
		
Click to expand...

Chest and face?? Are you sure? It was nowhere near his face. Rudiger played his part.

That was akin to what Kovacic and Ali done in the middle of the park, handbags.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2019)

4LEX said:



			That's being kind. Aurier and the likes of Mendy, Bakayoko and Fred are £180m worth of toilet juice. Can't tackle, no first touch, no passing ability and no quality whatsoever.

Spurs need a new midfield that is clear. They were pathetic at Man Utd and were again today. Jose will bring in those with the right minerals and offload those who haven't got it. They'll get Top 4 though.

After a few fortunate wins Ole is back at his usual level. The poor man's Henrik Larsson as a player and poor man's Roy Keane as a manager. Forget De Gea's mistakes.....is there a more overrated and useless striker than Martial? Lukaku was basic but was ten times the striker Martial ever will be. To offload one of the few 20 goal strikers and replace him with a statue beggars belief.

Man Utd are frankly embarrassing. To have such vast income, spend £600m on players in 5 years and end up with that squad and and manager you can only laugh.

Congratulations Liverpool on the World Club Cup. Ground it out *but did England proud *and played with the right attitude.
		
Click to expand...

I hope we never...... #scousenotenglish 😉


----------



## sawtooth (Dec 22, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Chest and face?? Are you sure? It was nowhere near his face. Rudiger played his part.

That was akin to what Kovacic and Ali done in the middle of the park, handbags.
		
Click to expand...

Upwards/towards it doesn’t matter he lashed out and that is a red card all day long.

It was never going to seriously hurt the player (everyone could see that) , and he made a meal of it for sure,  but you can’t do that and expect to get away with it.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Upwards/towards it doesn’t matter he lashed out and that is a red card all day long.

It was never going to seriously hurt the player (everyone could see that) , and he made a meal of it for sure,  but you can’t do that and expect to get away with it.
		
Click to expand...

So you've  gone from stating it was " a violent push" to it " never going to seriously hurt the player"  and agreeing  he he made a meal of it but yet it's still a red card??

Merry xmas Sawtooth.


----------



## fundy (Dec 22, 2019)

Seen very little of todays football, have just seen Gary Nevilles view on racism on sky post match. Hats off to him for hitting the nail squarely on the head, less so to David Jones (and whoever sky had in his ear) trying to distance themselves from it


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2019)

fundy said:



			Seen very little of todays football, have just seen Gary Nevilles view on racism on sky post match. Hats off to him for hitting the nail squarely on the head, less so to David Jones (and whoever sky had in his ear) trying to distance themselves from it
		
Click to expand...

I've just  this minute finished listening to him, I'm not surprised by DJ's comments after all he's employed by Murdoch.


----------



## Kellfire (Dec 22, 2019)

4LEX said:



			That's being kind. Aurier and the likes of Mendy, Bakayoko and Fred are £180m worth of toilet juice. Can't tackle, no first touch, no passing ability and no quality whatsoever.

Spurs need a new midfield that is clear. They were pathetic at Man Utd and were again today. Jose will bring in those with the right minerals and offload those who haven't got it. They'll get Top 4 though.

After a few fortunate wins Ole is back at his usual level. The poor man's Henrik Larsson as a player and poor man's Roy Keane as a manager. Forget De Gea's mistakes.....is there a more overrated and useless striker than Martial? Lukaku was basic but was ten times the striker Martial ever will be. To offload one of the few 20 goal strikers and replace him with a statue beggars belief.

Man Utd are frankly embarrassing. To have such vast income, spend £600m on players in 5 years and end up with that squad and and manager you can only laugh.

Congratulations Liverpool on the World Club Cup. Ground it out but did England proud and played with the right attitude.
		
Click to expand...

Hello, Adrian Durham. I assume you use a proxy when you post from this account?


----------



## fundy (Dec 22, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I've just  this minute finished listening to him, I'm not surprised by DJ's comments after all he's employed by Murdoch.
		
Click to expand...

says it all 

Youll like this, family xmas lunch today (wifes side of the family). I get the phone out to have an interest bet, pop Watford and Chelsea in the bet slip and go to back the double. Wifes brother in law is a Watford fan (and not happy hes not at the game) talks me out of backing Watford, Wifes brothers lad a Chelsea fan talks me out of backing Chelsea. Back 2 draws as a compromise sigh


----------



## sawtooth (Dec 22, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			So you've  gone from stating it was " a violent push" to it " never going to seriously hurt the player"  and agreeing  he he made a meal of it but yet it's still a red card??

Merry xmas Sawtooth.
		
Click to expand...

Semantics. It was violent conduct end of. 

I could try to kick someone , miss completely, and get sent off.


----------



## ger147 (Dec 22, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I've just  this minute finished listening to him, I'm not surprised by DJ's comments after all he's employed by Murdoch.
		
Click to expand...

Murdoch no longer owns Sky, it is wholly owned by Comcast.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 22, 2019)

Good to see Son throwing himself to the floor when the red card came out.

Hopefully he’ll get it rescinded and Rudiger gets done for dropping his chest on to Son’s outstretched leg.

#prayforson


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2019)

fundy said:



			says it all 

Youll like this, family xmas lunch today (wifes side of the family). I get the phone out to have an interest bet, pop Watford and Chelsea in the bet slip and go to back the double. Wifes brother in law is a Watford fan (and not happy hes not at the game) talks me out of backing Watford, Wifes brothers lad a Chelsea fan talks me out of backing Chelsea. Back 2 draws as a compromise sigh
		
Click to expand...

What a plonker!!

I backed the Watford/spurs double @9/1 to pay for the xmas and new year champagne 🤬🤬🤬 its aldi's bucks fizz now


----------



## fundy (Dec 22, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			What a plonked!!

I backed the Watford/spurs double @9/1 to pay for the xmas and new year champagne 🤬🤬🤬 its aldi's bucks fizz now
		
Click to expand...

it cant be that bad surely


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2019)

fundy said:



			it cant be that bad surely 

Click to expand...

I dont know how I'll manage going from the bolly to aldi's bucks fizz 😂


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 22, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Yet he plays the nice card straight away

Come on.. never touched him

Defender made a meal of it completely

However he proper kicked out

Not having a bad word said tho lol nicest footballer ever
		
Click to expand...

It's a fair cop, he has lived up to your opinion of him today. Pathetic all round that was. Pathetic of Son to kick his legs up, pathetic from Rudiger as well to go down as if he'd taken a shotgun blast to the stomach rather than a stud to the hip, but that's football for you nowadays. No excuses for Sonny - I guess that's what I get for making him FPL captain this week. 

Gazzaniga - what the flip was that?? Just grab the ball with your hands, you're the bloody goalkeeper aren't you? Absolutely mental. And why did they need VAR and 3 minutes to see that was a penalty?? As many of us feared, referees are just using it as a crutch so they don't have to make decisions. Could it have been any plainer?

Anyway, I hate football. Roll on Christmas.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 22, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Good to see Son throwing himself to the floor when the red card came out.

Hopefully he’ll get it rescinded and Rudiger gets done for dropping his chest on to Son’s outstretched leg.

#prayforson 

Click to expand...

Surprise the nicest guy to ever play football didn't accept his red... Shake the refs hand.. apologise to rudiger and walk off the pitch gracefully


----------



## Piece (Dec 22, 2019)

sawtooth said:



			Semantics. It was violent conduct end of.

*I could try to kick someone , miss completely, and get sent off*.
		
Click to expand...

You mean like Rafinha tried against Mane yesterday? 🤣😜


----------



## fundy (Dec 22, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I dont know how I'll manage going from the bolly to aldi's bucks fizz 😂
		
Click to expand...


you want me to pop you a bottle in the post


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 22, 2019)

Just seen DJ’s response to Gary Neville after he spoke about racism, that was embarrassing from him, regardless of who owns Sky.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2019)

fundy said:



			you want me to pop you a bottle in the post 

Click to expand...

Cheers Steve just Pm'd you my address, I'll return the favour and send you an Aldis bucks fizz 😉


----------



## fundy (Dec 22, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Cheers Steve just Pm'd you my address, I'll return the favour and send you an Aldis bucks fizz 😉
		
Click to expand...


keep the bucks fizz in case you run out, have sent it via Hermes, hope the driver doesnt work out whats in the package


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 22, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Good to see Son throwing himself to the floor when the red card came out.

Hopefully he’ll get it rescinded and Rudiger gets done for dropping his chest on to Son’s outstretched leg.

#prayforson 

Click to expand...

Agreed, both nipples were showing and were out of control , and in this day and age its a red for that.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2019)

fundy said:



			keep the bucks fizz in case you run out, have sent it via Hermes, hope the driver doesnt work out whats in the package 

Click to expand...

Hermes?? I might get it by next xmas knowing that lot 😂


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 22, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Just seen DJ’s response to Gary Neville after he spoke about racism, that was embarrassing from him, regardless of who owns Sky.

Click to expand...

Agree.
All Neville did was point out the double standards we have in this country.
Although who is to blame?
It’s the idiots who shout these things ,just deal with them !
Ban them for life and the message will get through. Eventually.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Agree.
All Neville did was point out the double standards we have in this country.
Although who is to blame?
It’s the idiots who shout these things ,just deal with them !
Ban them for life and the message will get through. Eventually.
		
Click to expand...

Only way to stop it is a zero tolerance approach and abandonment of games, then everybody knows if there’s any racist chants etc then the game gets abandoned and the offending team loses the match. It’ll stop.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 22, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Only way to stop it is a zero tolerance approach and abandonment of games, then everybody knows if there’s any racist chants etc then the game gets abandoned and the offending team loses the match. It’ll stop.
		
Click to expand...

That punishes fans like you that pay for their ticket.

There must be a way to identify these people and sort them out.


----------



## Jensen (Dec 22, 2019)

Disgraceful behaviour by so called Tottenham fans. You make racist chants at a player because the colour of his skin. So by that logic, you will do the same to Sissoko, Sanchez, Aurier- MORON


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 22, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			That punishes fans like you that pay for their ticket.

There must be a way to identify these people and sort them out.
		
Click to expand...

I’m with Stu on this one, you can’t expect other fans to police it, what if it’s a bloke with young kids and idiot turns on him?
It’s a society problem and it needs addressing at the top levels.
Banning someone from a football ground doesn’t stop racism, it just means the racist can’t go the match, they are still a racist.

For me we have to change the language we all use and Gary Neville was spot on.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 22, 2019)

Jensen said:



			Disgraceful behaviour by so called Tottenham fans. You make racist chants at a player because the colour of his skin. So by that logic, you will do the same to Sissoko, Sanchez, Aurier- MORON
		
Click to expand...

Every club has them though mate, that’s why it needs addressing in society, but like you say it’s incredible anyone with at least 1 brain cell would make those gestures in this day and age.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 22, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			That punishes fans like you that pay for their ticket.

There must be a way to identify these people and sort them out.
		
Click to expand...

I’m more than happy to forfeit half  of 1 game if it means we don’t have racist chants in our ground. 

Sorting people out? Trace them down , ban them then wait for the next ignorammous to arrive and do the same again? No ta.

Zero tolerance is the only way it works.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 23, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1208886754390007808


----------



## Wolf (Dec 23, 2019)

Just seen Nevilles comments on racism in the game from last night and he absolutely nails it in the head, also unbelievably poor comments from DJ immediately after showing towing the company line is mkre important perhaps to him or whoever had a word in his ear from Sky, especially saying in the interest of a balanced debate. There shouldn't be any balance at all it should be zero tolerance and companies like Sky have the biggest platform to help out these issues.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 23, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Just seen Nevilles comments on racism in the game from last night and he absolutely nails it in the head, also unbelievably poor comments from DJ immediately after showing towing the company line is mkre important perhaps to him or whoever had a word in his ear from Sky, especially saying in the interest of a balanced debate. There shouldn't be any balance at all it should be zero tolerance and companies like Sky have the biggest platform to help out these issues.
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1208885861498150914
Saw his apology this morning 

Least he has apologised .. realised the company made him look an idiot


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 23, 2019)

pauljames87 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1208885861498150914
Saw his apology this morning

Least he has apologised .. realised the company made him look an idiot
		
Click to expand...




pauljames87 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1208885861498150914
Saw his apology this morning

Least he has apologised .. realised the company made him look an idiot
		
Click to expand...

It makes you wonder what skys stance on racism is.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 23, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I’m more than happy to forfeit half  of 1 game if it means we don’t have racist chants in our ground.

Sorting people out? Trace them down , ban them then wait for the next ignorammous to arrive and do the same again? No ta.

Zero tolerance is the only way it works.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I’m agree zero tolerance 
But what makes you think it will only be one game.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 23, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I’m agree zero tolerance
But what makes you think it will only be one game.
		
Click to expand...

I think abandoning 1 game will send out the clearest message that racism will not be tolerated. These people arent stupid, they know exactly what they're doing. 

Using yesterdays occurance as an example. If Taylor takes both teams off and abandons that game, do you think the rest of the countries match going fans will take note and watch what they say or think about what they say in future? I do. 

As the current punishment is  3 year ban£300 fine and a£60 surcharge that is not a big enough deterrent because it's still happening.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 23, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Only way to stop it is a zero tolerance approach and abandonment of games, then everybody knows if there’s any racist chants etc then the game gets abandoned and the offending team loses the match. It’ll stop.
		
Click to expand...

I dont agree, and we're not sure that this will stop it in future, either. Why should one idiot spoil it for the other 20-70K fans?

Punish the individual(s), unless a certain club has a particular problem that means it happens week in week out.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 23, 2019)

Sadly, until points are taken off teams it will continue, playing behind closed doors, fines, fans banned, none of those will have a big effect on Clubs, take points and everyone will get involved.

Abandon the match and lose 3 points, harsh on the Club and genuine fans, but I’d imagine next time they play it’ll be a different attitude in the ground.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 23, 2019)

Agree totally with the Neville comments. As the referee had to stop the game will it stay in house for the PL to deal with or will UEFA start looking at the incident as well?

It needs something strong to send the message out and I understand players wanting to leave the pitch and ultimately the match being abandoned bu t doesn't that penalise the other 99%? Not sure how playing behind closed doors really helps and so unless a club is punished with points deductions and therefore affecting their position (and so potential finishing spot and prize money and European/relegation positions) I don't see what can be done. Unless fans are going to name and shame the culprits to the club and police it is going to be hard for clubs to make find these idiots and deal with them. Again though would a ban really work and how many that are banned from clubs go to away games still or even try and get into another part of grounds (genuine question)


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 23, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I dont agree, and we're not sure that this will stop it in future, either. Why should one idiot spoil it for the other 20-70K fans?

Punish the individual(s), unless a certain club has a particular problem that means it happens week in week out.
		
Click to expand...

Try it. I'm sure it's only happen once. 

Punish individuals? The current punishment isnt working because its continuing to happen. 

I'm pretty certain it'd  make any fan of that persuasion think twice as he's/she's/it's/non binary walking upto the ground not to use any form of racial abuse because they know the game gets abandoned. It might be drastic measures but nevertheless it'll stop inside stadiums.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 23, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I think abandoning 1 game will send out the clearest message that racism will not be tolerated. These people arent stupid, they know exactly what they're doing.

Using yesterdays occurance as an example. If Taylor takes both teams off and abandons that game, do you think the rest of the countries match going fans will take note and watch what they say or think about what they say in future? I do.

As the current punishment is  3 year ban£300 fine and a£60 surcharge that is not a big enough deterrent because it's still happening.
		
Click to expand...

If you abandon the game without identification of the culprit.
He can just do it again next week.
I can’t see the logic


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 23, 2019)

Perhaps as a starting point, treble the number of stewards, make them actually look at the fans, not the game and have them be pro active. When the village idiot stands up and makes a racist comment, identify them, descend en masse, hand over to the police.

The recent incidents in the PL have largely been individuals or two or three idiots being bold together. They have not been 1,000 fans chanting together. Individuals can be picked out, isolated and removed quickly. The clubs just have to swamp the grounds with people capable of doing this rather than just students and old men handed a yellow jacket 3hrs before match day.

If we are going to wait for society to change then we may be waiting some time to get rid of these dregs.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 23, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Every club has them though mate, that’s why it needs addressing in society, but like you say it’s incredible anyone with at least 1 brain cell would make those gestures in this day and age.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately they do, and I partly blame clubs, and they want to return to all standing. Yobs standing together. That's gonna help loads. This is my last season as a season ticket holder. Am watching football I dreamed of, yet the games are killing me. rascism, VAR, constant changing of fixtures for telly. Kick off times. Citys next four games are inc last Saturday's are 5.30,5.30,6.00,5.31 brilliant when you have a 4 and 7 yr old to take. We sit in the family stand and unsold tickets are sold to anyone. There's hardly any kids in there yet I sit hearing effing and jeffin in a family stand. Be glad to be watching it at home in future, but at the same time sad.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 23, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Unfortunately they do, and I partly blame clubs, and they want to return to all standing. *Yobs standing together. *That's gonna help loads. This is my last season as a season ticket holder. Am watching football I dreamed of, yet the games are killing me. rascism, VAR, constant changing of fixtures for telly. Kick off times. Citys next four games are inc last Saturday's are 5.30,5.30,6.00,5.31 brilliant when you have a 4 and 7 yr old to take. We sit in the family stand and unsold tickets are sold to anyone. There's hardly any kids in there yet I sit hearing effing and jeffin in a family stand. Be glad to be watching it at home in future, but at the same time sad.
		
Click to expand...

Wow, That's a massive overeaction and generalisation. 

I dont see standing causing racist abuse.

Safe standing isnt about "yobs" all standing together. It's about standing safely watching a game. 1 person per seat standing up safely. I've ended up 3rows lower down celebrating a goal, injuring myself and others. It happens in every stadium up and down the country.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 23, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Perhaps as a starting point, treble the number of stewards, make them actually look at the fans, not the game and have them be pro active. When the village idiot stands up and makes a racist comment, identify them, descend en masse, hand over to the police.

The recent incidents in the PL have largely been individuals or two or three idiots being bold together. They have not been 1,000 fans chanting together. Individuals can be picked out, isolated and removed quickly. The clubs just have to swamp the grounds with people capable of doing this rather than just students and old men handed a yellow jacket 3hrs before match day.

If we are going to wait for society to change then we may be waiting some time to get rid of these dregs.
		
Click to expand...


Theres 12000 fans  on the Kop alone, how many stewards do you propose should be on there?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 23, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Try it. I'm sure it's only happen once.

Punish individuals? The current punishment isnt working because its continuing to happen.

I'm pretty certain it'd  make any fan of that persuasion think twice as he's/she's/it's/non binary walking upto the ground not to use any form of racial abuse because they know the game gets abandoned. It might be drastic measures but nevertheless it'll stop inside stadiums.
		
Click to expand...

Ok, so lets say if it was the last game of the season, 3 points needed to win the league - could be the Etihad, Anfield or at the King power and one half "n" half wearing football fan from Kuala Lumpur corporate exec (normally supports Arsenal/Spurs/Chelsea - take your pick) shouts something rascist.......

You can see where I'm going.

You lose the league. Fair / will it make a difference to that individual?

Grounds / stands have been closed going back years, its not proven that it will still stop one divvy spoiling it for the rest.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 23, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Theres 12000 fans  on the Kop alone, how many stewards do you propose should be on there?
		
Click to expand...

They need to work out how many people a steward can scan and monitor, what size of block. It may be you need more near the front, it seems the idiots get bolder the nearer they are to a player, so concentrate more there. Once you know how many they can cover you go from there. 

You get however many you need, clubs can afford it, the pL can afford it. If it is a priority, as it should be, then getting those numbers should not be an issue. If I can misquote from 21 Bridges, "Flood the grounds with yellow ". The abuse will drop, people will be far more wary about their behaviour and if not they will be pounced upon and removed almost instantly. Once the idiots start seeing this in action the incidents will inevitably reduce.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 23, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Unfortunately they do, and I partly blame clubs, and they want to return to all standing. Yobs standing together. That's gonna help loads. This is my last season as a season ticket holder. Am watching football I dreamed of, yet the games are killing me. rascism, VAR, constant changing of fixtures for telly. Kick off times. Citys next four games are inc last Saturday's are 5.30,5.30,6.00,5.31 brilliant when you have a 4 and 7 yr old to take. We sit in the family stand and unsold tickets are sold to anyone. There's hardly any kids in there yet I sit hearing effing and jeffin in a family stand. Be glad to be watching it at home in future, but at the same time sad.
		
Click to expand...

Lots of generalisation and different issues there mate,
Unfortunately swearing is becoming the norm in society, a 12A picture at the movies shows violence and scenes/comments of a sexual nature, respect has been lost for the Emergency Services.

All the above and more in society needs to be addressed, football grounds are just a small representation of that society.

Look at the intolerance on here on the football and political threads, we’ve all got to take some responsibility and it really does come from the top.

It’s easy to blame Politicians from all parties, but respect in the whole of society had gone backwards and unless the football authorities go over the top initially to stamp on bad behaviour it will get worse before it gets better.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 23, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ok, so lets say if it was the last game of the season, 3 points needed to win the league - could be the Etihad, Anfield or at the King power and one half "n" half wearing football fan from Kuala Lumpur corporate exec (normally supports Arsenal/Spurs/Chelsea - take your pick) shouts something rascist.......

You can see where I'm going.

You lose the league. Fair / will it make a difference to that individual?

Grounds / stands have been closed going back years, its not proven that it will still stop one divvy spoiling it for the rest.
		
Click to expand...

I’m for punishing Clubs Pete, but you make some valid comments.

Maybe the points are enforced the following season or Clubs need to ensure they get ahead of the problem with their own measures to prevent the scenario you mention from happening.

I don’t think more Stewards is the answer, you’ll either get the thug Steward wanting to wade in to the crowd or the 17yr old or 60yr old who hasn’t got a spine taking a kicking.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 23, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ok, so lets say if it was the last game of the season, 3 points needed to win the league - could be the Etihad, Anfield or at the King power and one half "n" half wearing football fan from Kuala Lumpur corporate exec (normally supports Arsenal/Spurs/Chelsea - take your pick) shouts something rascist.......

You can see where I'm going.

You lose the league. Fair / will it make a difference to that individual?

Grounds / stands have been closed going back years, its not proven that it will still stop one divvy spoiling it for the rest.
		
Click to expand...

So everything they've tried hasnt worked...... see where I'm going with this?😉

Unfortunately racism isnt a Football problem, it's a society problem. Society needs to change before football gets rid of it.


----------



## Slime (Dec 23, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			I’m for punishing Clubs Pete, but you make some valid comments.

Maybe the points are enforced the following season or Clubs need to ensure they get ahead of the problem with their own measures to prevent the scenario you mention from happening.

*I don’t think more Stewards is the answer*, you’ll either get the thug Steward wanting to wade in to the crowd or the 17yr old or 60yr old who hasn’t got a spine taking a kicking.
		
Click to expand...

Nor do I.
What is a steward supposed to do if he is black?
Now, if it was a policeman, maybe things would be a bit different.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 23, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Theres 12000 fans  on the Kop alone, how many stewards do you propose should be on there?
		
Click to expand...

Plus those required outside the ground for when City turn up at anfield 😁🤔😉


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 23, 2019)

How can spurs appeal one of the most obvious red cards of the century?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 23, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			How can spurs appeal one of the most obvious red cards of the century?
		
Click to expand...

It’s a automatic thing now.
Only for the double jepody rule the keeper should have gone as well.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 23, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			It’s a automatic thing now.
Only for the double jepody rule the keeper should have gone as well.
		
Click to expand...

Surely VAR should make the need for appeals a thing of the past? 

Up the ban by a game for wasting the league's time


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 23, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			How can spurs appeal one of the most obvious red cards of the century?
		
Click to expand...

Because instead of accepting the initial ruling, they have to claim they were the innocent party......and then we wonder why society has no respect for anything.
The racism issue is also tied in with a lack of respect for anyone and everyone. Football clubs have to show respect for the rules and the discisions made, whether they like them or not. Fans have to show respect for the refs, like them or not. Racism can't grow if respect is forthcoming from everyone.
Sadly though I know it will never change, and will be shouted down every time.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 23, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Surely VAR should make the need for appeals a thing of the past?

Up the ban by a game for wasting the league's time
		
Click to expand...

I would add yellow for anyone harassing the ref  during VAR deliberations except the captains.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 23, 2019)

So the Government saying they are prepared to take “further steps” over racism in Football unless the football authorities sort it out!
Not a society problem then.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 23, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I would add yellow for anyone harassing the ref  during VAR deliberations except the captains.
		
Click to expand...

Anyone who carries on speaking to the ref in any situation apart from the captain or the players involved should be booked .. install some discipline in the game


----------



## Fish (Dec 23, 2019)

If it’s a criminal offence outside of a football stadium, then it needs to be the same inside, and when identified that a racist remark or gesture has been targeted towards an individual, then spotters within the stewards need to identify them to the police, have them arrested, charged and if/when found guilty there needs to be a minimum sentence of 200 hours CS, specifically done on match days and if breached, a minimum 4mth jail imposed.

There has to be real deterrents, or just like using a mobile at the wheel, they’ll still be too many chancers.

Softly softly don’t work!

Plus, stewards are not doormen or bouncers, you’re just asking for trouble saying to have more and send them in like a snatch squad, untrained wannabe security facing off someone with 6 pints and a few lines in him ain’t going to solve a problem, it’ll only create more problems.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 23, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			How can spurs appeal one of the most obvious red cards of the century?
		
Click to expand...

Maureen has said that Son is being punished 5 times. 🤣


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 23, 2019)

Stewards can do the identifying then call over the police. They can be the eyes and ears, the mass boots on the ground, and then get the professionals, the police, to take away the racists.


----------



## fundy (Dec 23, 2019)

Not enough for Spurs to appeal Sons red card, their investigation into racist abuse of Rudiger is inconclusive so far


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 23, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Plus those required outside the ground for when City turn up at anfield 😁🤔😉
		
Click to expand...

I think City have only turned up at Anfield once in about 30-odd years, havent they tashy.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 23, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Stewards can do the identifying then call over the police. They can be the eyes and ears, the mass boots on the ground, and then get the professionals, the police, to take away the racists.
		
Click to expand...

The police - Professional rascists, or professional take-awayers?


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 23, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think City have only turned up at Anfield once in about 30-odd years, havent they tashy.

Click to expand...

 🤔😁 four times as champs 🤗🏆🏆🏆🏆


----------



## fundy (Dec 23, 2019)

Stolen from twitter:
@FootyHumour
Troy Deeney has played four times at home in the Premier League this season - every single appearance has come under a different manager.

Stat of the season!


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 23, 2019)

fundy said:



			Stolen from twitter:
@FootyHumour
Troy Deeney has played four times at home in the Premier League this season - every single appearance has come under a different manager.

Stat of the season!
		
Click to expand...

That’s almost as good as last years. 

Saints had 4 managers between two Shane Long goals......


----------



## Paperboy (Dec 23, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			That’s almost as good as last years.

Saints had 4 managers between two Shane Long goals......
		
Click to expand...

Hadn't Kane scored 50 odd goals in the same time


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 23, 2019)

Oumar Niasse is now on his 4th Everton Manager.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 23, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			I’m for punishing Clubs Pete, but you make some valid comments.

Maybe the points are enforced the following season or Clubs need to ensure they get ahead of the problem with their own measures to prevent the scenario you mention from happening.

I don’t think more Stewards is the answer, you’ll either get the thug Steward wanting to wade in to the crowd or the 17yr old or 60yr old who hasn’t got a spine taking a kicking.
		
Click to expand...

Its hard enough preventing football just becoming a business these days (probably lost that one years ago), without it becoming some sort of quasi-utopian-societal nirvana.

When was the last time you watched sky sports without the word racism being used, for me its probably 12 months. Its dominating the sport at the moment.

Yes it has to be tackled, but is the problem just in football. Whether it's comments, institutionalised racism, accessability to coaches jobs its every week. How often do you hear about ethnic minorities not getting coaching jobs in athletics, Hockey, dressage.......NEVER. Its always footy. Never mind what the current PM can or has written in the past, but oooooohhhhhhh thats okay, because its in the Spectator. Shall we ban the Tories.......(please God, yes).

Yes. Lets discuss options, but dont throw the baby out with the bathwater, and here's a thing - why dont we ask the fans to come up with something. Every pundit, ex-manager,ex-player (and lets face it I'm sure some of them from the 70's and 80's werent averse to calling teammates God knows what, back in the day, but no, everyone's a saint these days, jumping on the bandwagon. Let the fans come up with something to help, minimise and ultimately eradicate, and if it is the odd divvy, let the courts handle it.......but take it outside of the stadiums as well.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 23, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Its hard enough preventing football just becoming a business these days (probably lost that one years ago), without it becoming some sort of quasi-utopian-societal nirvana.

When was the last time you watched sky sports without the word racism being used, for me its probably 12 months. Its dominating the sport at the moment.

Yes it has to be tackled, but is the problem just in football. Whether it's comments, institutionalised racism, accessability to coaches jobs its every week. How often do you hear about ethnic minorities not getting coaching jobs in athletics, Hockey, dressage.......NEVER. Its always footy. Never mind what the current PM can or has written in the past, but oooooohhhhhhh thats okay, because its in the Spectator. Shall we ban the Tories.......(please God, yes).

Yes. Lets discuss options, but dont throw the baby out with the bathwater, and here's a thing - why dont we ask the fans to come up with something. Every pundit, ex-manager,ex-player (and lets face it I'm sure some of them from the 70's and 80's werent averse to calling teammates God knows what, back in the day, but no, everyone's a saint these days, jumping on the bandwagon. Let the fans come up with something to help, minimise and ultimately eradicate, and if it is the odd divvy, let the courts handle it.......but take it outside of the stadiums as well.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree it’s not a football only issue, but that’s how it’s getting spun.

Don’t know if you saw the Stormzy “comment” over the weekend and how it was reported and then turned back on him and then we get people like hopkins and morgan joining in!

Sadly for all its positives, Football (as we’ve seen before) is an easy scapegoat.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 23, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Totally agree it’s not a football only issue, but that’s how it’s getting spun.

Don’t know if you saw the Stormzy “comment” over the weekend and how it was reported and then turned back on him and then we get people like hopkins and morgan joining in!

Sadly for all its positives, Football (as we’ve seen before) is an easy scapegoat.
		
Click to expand...

No, is he some sort of "hip" weatherman, Hopkins and Morgan, a latter day Starsky and Hutch?


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 24, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Totally agree it’s not a football only issue, but that’s how it’s getting spun.

Don’t know if you saw the Stormzy “comment” over the weekend and how it was reported and then turned back on him and then we get people like hopkins and morgan joining in!

Sadly for all its positives, Football (as we’ve seen before) is an easy scapegoat.
		
Click to expand...

Thing is though Paul, ave had me rant re the state of football. but it wasn't that long ago (Derby game) I was having another rant about City fans singing Munich songs. It's the same knobs that shout rascist abuse. The game needs to crack down ASAP.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 24, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1209410526641557505😂


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 24, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Thing is though Paul, ave had me rant re the state of football. but it wasn't that long ago (Derby game) I was having another rant about City fans singing Munich songs. It's the same knobs that shout rascist abuse. The game needs to crack down ASAP.
		
Click to expand...

You can’t crack down on everything Tash and you’ll never get rid of the knobs, removing them from Stadiums doesn’t stop them being knobs!

I’ll give you an example, the amount of teams home and away that either sing “sign on” or “feed the scousers” at Everton and Liverpool fans is ridiculous, now, we are told it’s only banter! But yet it’s hundreds if not thousands singing it, it happened at Old Trafford a few weeks back, Leics fans sang it last week, the irony is, both places have higher unemployment and child poverty than Liverpool does.

Are we meant to ignore it? Laugh? Be insulted? All of the above? None?

It’s not just racism, bad language, songs related to disasters etc, 

If you want sterile conditions, then you’d need to play behind closed doors because part of football is winding the opposition up, but each set of fans will make an excuse as to why they sing what they do.

Back to racism, Fish made it a good point, make sure that those arrested face criminal charges.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 24, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			You can’t crack down on everything Tash and you’ll never get rid of the knobs, removing them from Stadiums doesn’t stop them being knobs!

I’ll give you an example, the amount of teams home and away that either sing “sign on” or “feed the scousers” at Everton and Liverpool fans is ridiculous, now, we are told it’s only banter! But yet it’s hundreds if not thousands singing it, it happened at Old Trafford a few weeks back, Leics fans sang it last week, the irony is, both places have higher unemployment and child poverty than Liverpool does.

Are we meant to ignore it? Laugh? Be insulted? All of the above? None?

It’s not just racism, bad language, songs related to disasters etc,

If you want sterile conditions, then you’d need to play behind closed doors because part of football is winding the opposition up, but each set of fans will make an excuse as to why they sing what they do.

Back to racism, Fish made it a good point, make sure that those arrested face criminal charges.
		
Click to expand...

Fans all over the country have songs sang about them because of stereotypes,it’s not just a Scouse thing👍🏻👍🏻


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 24, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			Fans all over the country have songs sang about them because of stereotypes,it’s not just a Scouse thing👍🏻👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

Whoooooosh


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 24, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			You can’t crack down on everything Tash and you’ll never get rid of the knobs, removing them from Stadiums doesn’t stop them being knobs!

I’ll give you an example, the amount of teams home and away that either sing “sign on” or “feed the scousers” at Everton and Liverpool fans is ridiculous, now, we are told it’s only banter! But yet it’s hundreds if not thousands singing it, it happened at Old Trafford a few weeks back, Leics fans sang it last week, the irony is, both places have higher unemployment and child poverty than Liverpool does.

Are we meant to ignore it? Laugh? Be insulted? All of the above? None?

It’s not just racism, bad language, songs related to disasters etc,

If you want sterile conditions, then you’d need to play behind closed doors because part of football is winding the opposition up, but each set of fans will make an excuse as to why they sing what they do.

Back to racism, Fish made it a good point, make sure that those arrested face criminal charges.
		
Click to expand...

I always thought if you were arrested for racism you would be prosecuted !
Isn’t that the the norm then.?
If not that needs to change.


----------



## Slime (Dec 24, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I always thought if you were arrested for racism you would be prosecuted !
Isn’t that the the norm then.?
If not that needs to change.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, if someone is arrested for racism, found guilty and fined, they are still a racist, albeit a slightly poorer one.
As well as fines and bans, these idiots need educating ............................. and I'm not sure how that can successfully be done.
Education is the answer.


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 24, 2019)

I see sons red card appeal has been rejected 

Wheres that extra game for appealing a clear red?


----------



## Fish (Dec 24, 2019)

Slime said:



			Unfortunately, if someone is arrested for racism, found guilty and fined, they are still a racist, albeit a slightly poorer one.
As well as fines and bans, these idiots need educating ............................. and I'm not sure how that can successfully be done.
		
Click to expand...

I do, stick them in a cell with a 6ft 6”, 16 stone fit as fcuk gay African 🌈 😜


----------



## Slime (Dec 24, 2019)

Fish said:



			I do, stick them in a cell with a 6ft 6”, 16 stone fit as fcuk gay African 🌈 😜
		
Click to expand...

It sounds like you have one in mind! 
Friend of yours, is he?


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 24, 2019)

Slime said:



			It sounds like you have one in mind! 
Friend of yours, is he?   

Click to expand...

Definitely speaking from experience isnt he 😂😂


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 24, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Whoooooosh

Click to expand...

Sorry Paul you’ve lost Me 🤷‍♂️
I Was just pointing out that it’s not just a Scouse thing.
I didn’t want you thinking it was👍🏻👍🏻


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 25, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			Sorry Paul you’ve lost Me 🤷‍♂️
I Was just pointing out that it’s not just a Scouse thing.
I didn’t want you thinking it was👍🏻👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

I was at a Newcastle v Cardiff game a few years ago. The Newcastle fans were starting to shout about sheep. The Cardiff fans, as one, starting singing about 'being Welsh and liking sheep', a little more fruity than that of course. At the end of the chant the Newcastle fans applauded, gave a thumbs up and sheep were not mentioned again. The Cardiff fans owned and diffused the potential jibe, brilliant.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 25, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I was at a Newcastle v Cardiff game a few years ago. The Newcastle fans were starting to shout about sheep. The Cardiff fans, as one, starting singing about 'being Welsh and liking sheep', a little more fruity than that of course. At the end of the chant the Newcastle fans applauded, gave a thumbs up and sheep were not mentioned again. The Cardiff fans owned and diffused the potential jibe, brilliant.
		
Click to expand...

I said in the original post mate that all fans do it to each other and gave AN example.

He’s once again failed to read the whole post and interpreted it the only way he knows.

Have a great day mate and spk soon.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 25, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			I said in the original post mate that all fans do it to each other and gave AN example.

He’s once again failed to read the whole post and interpreted it the only way he knows.

Have a great day mate and spk soon.
		
Click to expand...

I get your point 👍. The Cardiff story always makes me smile though, rare to get two opposing sets of fans in unison laughing. We need more of that.

Have a good un. Cheers


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 25, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I get your point 👍. The Cardiff story always makes me smile though, rare to get two opposing sets of fans in unison laughing. We need more of that.

Have a good un. Cheers
		
Click to expand...

Best way to deal with it mate,better than being over sensitive & throwing a hissy fit 😆


----------



## Fish (Dec 26, 2019)

One part of me is 😂 but the other is saying enough is enough with these ridiculous VAR offside decisions, we’re talking inches offside, that’s not a clear & obvious error by an official, it’s sterilising the game, but I’m still 😂
😏


----------



## Fish (Dec 26, 2019)

Boom 😜


----------



## Fish (Dec 26, 2019)

What an absolute dreary game, a very fortunate equalizer with the most subdued celebration from Kane I’ve ever seen, something’s not right there🤔 but a very well taken 2nd goal. Not sure how Sissoko gets away with stealing a living as a footballer, and Winks very lucky not to be sent off for a second yellow, which I think had he not already been on one, he’d have got, so that’s just wrong imo. 

Deeper problems at the Lane than what we can see or we hear about imo.


----------



## Fish (Dec 26, 2019)

Need to find a way to break down teams that play a back 6, coupled with serious time wasting from such an early time, then hit us on a counter and score.

The frustration is clearly getting to our players, we’ve got to rise above this style of negative play, we’re giving cheap ball away in the final third, which isn’t surprising when there’s 9 men defending in the box, plus the keeper 😳


----------



## fundy (Dec 26, 2019)

some promising early signs, better looking structure with Torreira at the base of midfield and Ozil finding some space but wasteful with chances and then the old frailties resurface and we concede a soft goal giving the ball away then not closing down, can almost see the confidence disappear with the goal and were then hanging on for half time


----------



## Fish (Dec 26, 2019)

fundy said:



			some promising early signs, better looking structure with Torreira at the base of midfield and Ozil finding some space but wasteful with chances and then the old frailties resurface and we concede a soft goal giving the ball away then not closing down, can almost see the confidence disappear with the goal and were then hanging on for half time
		
Click to expand...

I’ve got Arsenal in 2 of my acca’s, what was I thinking 😳


----------



## fundy (Dec 26, 2019)

Fish said:



			I’ve got Arsenal in 2 of my acca’s, what was I thinking 😳
		
Click to expand...

1 would be daft, 2 just irresponsible lol

struggling for reasons why you would contemplate backing us away from home at no doubt a horribly short price

next time you thinking of backing us read the back 4s names out loud 5 times, that should stop you doing it again lol


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 26, 2019)

fundy said:



			some promising early signs, better looking structure with Torreira at the base of midfield and Ozil finding some space but wasteful with chances and then the old frailties resurface and we concede a soft goal giving the ball away then not closing down, can almost see the confidence disappear with the goal and were then hanging on for half time
		
Click to expand...

Not really that bothered. It's a work in progress, and Arteta isn't a miracle worker. If we win, it doesn't mean we have turned a corner, and if we lose, it doesn't mean we are not going to improve.


----------



## fundy (Dec 26, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Not really that bothered. It's a work in progress, and Arteta isn't a miracle worker. If we win, it doesn't mean we have turned a corner, and if we lose, it doesn't mean we are not going to improve.
		
Click to expand...


for sure but nice to see some signs of things being done a little differently. be good to see pepe for the last half hr


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 26, 2019)

Fish said:



			I’ve got Arsenal in 2 of my acca’s, what was I thinking 😳
		
Click to expand...

What's that saying?? " A fool and his money are easily parted" 😂😂😂


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 26, 2019)

Everton playing okay but lacking quality and sharpness in the final third.  Game not being helped by Amazon's z list commentary team and a picture that is not smooth on the screen.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 26, 2019)

Boom. Level.


----------



## Fish (Dec 26, 2019)

fundy said:



			1 would be daft, 2 just irresponsible lol

struggling for reasons why you would contemplate backing us away from home at no doubt a horribly short price

next time you thinking of backing us read the back 4s names out loud 5 times, that should stop you doing it again lol
		
Click to expand...

I was going on the new manager syndrome effect, still time for you to steal a winner, although Norwich are now hurting me.


----------



## Fish (Dec 26, 2019)

We’re not coming back from this now, shocking performance, very poor crossing and delivery from the wings, we’ve been bullied too easily off the ball at times, crowded out too easily, we lack that bit of quality that can change a game in an instance, hopefully that might come in the January sales 🤔


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 26, 2019)

Well it's been a while since I've seen us put that sort of performance in.

Yes there were dirty time wasting tactics. But to actually show some resolve has been sorely missed. And with our reserve strike force too. Imagine Ings had started 😂😂


----------



## Dan2501 (Dec 26, 2019)

Crap game, Burnley came to play their usual brand of shithouse football, but got the win in the end. Sidibe was awful but provided a bit of quality when we needed it and DCL buried another, quality header.


----------



## SaintHacker (Dec 26, 2019)

I reckon that a shed load of accas messed up! Great result , finally starting to play with somw proper grit and determination and getting the results for it.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 26, 2019)

Very poor again from Chelsea. Another decent result from Watford to get them off the bottom and Norwich now looking like the team dead in the water.


----------



## Robin Hood (Dec 26, 2019)

Well that was depressing from the Toon Army 😫
Thoroughly beaten by Man Utd.
Pass me another mince pie and the egg nog.....


----------



## Piece (Dec 26, 2019)

Nice draw up at the Blades. Foster with a worldy in the second half.

The thing most impressive about Liverpool is the quality of the crosses. On point almost always.


----------



## Cherry13 (Dec 26, 2019)

Robin Hood said:



			Well that was depressing from the Toon Army 😫
Thoroughly beaten by Man Utd.
Pass me another mince pie and the egg nog.....
		
Click to expand...

We lack any quality going forward, but surprisingly for the first time this season our defence really let us down.  Too many mistakes and were punished.


----------



## Kellfire (Dec 26, 2019)

A lad I know from our six aside football league went to Old Trafford today to support Newcastle. He just woke up in a Manchester hospital with his face bloodied up. He doesn’t know what happened but I can guess! Bloody horrible.


----------



## Slime (Dec 26, 2019)

Robin Hood said:



			Well that was depressing from the Toon Army 😫
*Thoroughly beaten by Man Utd.*
Pass me another mince pie and the egg nog.....
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, I thought McTominay could easily have been sent off.
Having said that, United looked like they were enjoying themselves and, once level, they seemed to be playing with more confidence.
Unfortunately, Pogba makes a huge difference.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 26, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			A lad I know from our six aside football league went to Old Trafford today to support Newcastle. He just woke up in a Manchester hospital with his face bloodied up. He doesn’t know what happened but I can guess! Bloody horrible.
		
Click to expand...

Got off his tits & face planted the pavement?


----------



## Kellfire (Dec 26, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			Got off his tits & face planted the pavement?
		
Click to expand...

He’s not one for drinking so I’m guessing it’s option B.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 26, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			He’s not one for drinking so I’m guessing it’s option B.
		
Click to expand...

So was he attacked?
Mugged?
Abducted by aliens?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 26, 2019)

Wow, didn't think that would be that easy.

No foxes in our box tonight.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 26, 2019)

Great win for the Reds .
Was getting frustrated by the finishing first half.
But we made them look very ordinary tonight.
Salah was shocking again.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 26, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Wow, didn't think that would be that easy.

No foxes in our box tonight.

Click to expand...

Not seen it but I spoke to daughters partner and I said I could see Leicester getting thumped. They played with most players crowding one side, a long cross field ball from City had Leicester chasing shadows. Liverpool with its width would destroy Leicester.


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 26, 2019)

Hey.     na not tonight 😁


Statement of intent right there


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 26, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Not seen it but I spoke to daughters partner and I said I could see Leicester getting thumped. They played with most players crowding one side, a long cross field ball from City had Leicester chasing shadows. Liverpool with its width would destroy Leicester.
		
Click to expand...

I dont think many, even us reds, who would have predicted a thumping, but that could have easily been another 2. One of the most controlled and impressive performances I've seen by us, and by 1st vs 2nd place in a long time, especially away from home after being halfway around the world 5 days ago, as well.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 26, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Hey.     na not tonight 😁


Statement of intent right there
		
Click to expand...

Hey macca, what time is Downton Abbey on tonight?


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 26, 2019)

To be honest Lb, last year Leicester scared the bejesus out of City. This year they looked like they have gone backwards a bit. But second at Xmas am sure they would of taken that.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 26, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			I dont think many, even us reds, who would have predicted a thumping, but that could have easily been another 2. One of the most controlled and impressive performances I've seen by us, and by 1st vs 2nd place in a long time, especially away from home after being halfway around the world 5 days ago, as well.
		
Click to expand...

Earth circumference 12742km

Liverpool to Qatar 5425km. 

Typical Liverpool. Always trying to big yourself up 😂😂


----------



## Kellfire (Dec 26, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Earth circumference 12742km

Liverpool to Qatar 5425km.

Typical Liverpool. Always trying to big yourself up 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

You’re some way out on your circumference there.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 26, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Earth circumference 12742km

Liverpool to Qatar 5425km x 2 journeys, plus isnt the world eliptical, so must gain a few more miles, plus wind against.
		
Click to expand...

Close enough for me.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 26, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			You’re some way out on your circumference there.
		
Click to expand...

I was good at maths when at school.

I'm blaming a boxing day bday, saints winning 2 nil, numerous pints and my stupidity to goodle circumference instead of diameter 😂😂

Tbf. A 40k circumference makes my point my valid. Honest guv.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 26, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I was good at maths when at school.

I'm blaming a boxing day bday, saints winning 2 nil, numerous pints and my stupidity to goodle circumference instead of diameter 😂😂

Tbf. A 40k circumference makes my point my valid. Honest guv.
		
Click to expand...

Hey Dave, what time's the sky at night on, Bro?


----------



## GG26 (Dec 26, 2019)

Just back from the match.  Liverpool simply played us off of the park with a great work rate and desire to win the ball. Probably the best team I have witnessed at the King Power in the six seasons I've been going.  Unfortunately, Leicester have taken a dip in the last couple of weeks and all of a sudden their confidence seems shot.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2019)

GG26 said:



			Just back from the match.  Liverpool simply played us off of the park with a great work rate and desire to win the ball. Probably the best team I have witnessed at the King Power in the six seasons I've been going.  Unfortunately, Leicester have taken a dip in the last couple of weeks and all of a sudden their confidence seems shot.
		
Click to expand...

That’s probably the most complete performance I’ve ever seen from a Liverpool side. Dominated from the 1st minute.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2019)

GG26 said:



			Just back from the match.  Liverpool simply played us off of the park with a great work rate and desire to win the ball. Probably the best team I have witnessed at the King Power in the six seasons I've been going.  Unfortunately, Leicester have taken a dip in the last couple of weeks and all of a sudden their confidence seems shot.
		
Click to expand...

GG , Ave seen Leicester batter us at the Etihad when they won the title and last season was proper squeaky bum time. They were so organised and disciplined. When I saw Leicester v City the other week I was gobsmacked. I couldn’t believe how narrow they played. But my main criticism was they just seemed “ to nice”. They didn’t seem to have a Fernandinho who would do the naughty things. The things they did when they won the title. 
Re Liverpool, theres a certain ring to English champs, european champs, world champs, Chuck in super cup champs. It seemed Liverpools season was hinged around how they got around Decembers fixtures. There not doing to bad at the moment.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 27, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			That’s probably the most complete performance I’ve ever seen from a Liverpool side. Dominated from the 1st minute.
		
Click to expand...

 I agree 
I will also add that TAA performance was up there with any I’ve seen in a long while.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Great win for the Reds .
Was getting frustrated by the finishing first half.
But we made them look very ordinary tonight.
Salah was shocking again.
		
Click to expand...

That was our best performance in 30+years and you still found something to complain about??

I’m lost for words.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			I agree
I will also add that TAA performance was up there with any I’ve seen in a long while.
		
Click to expand...

He’s a 21yr old lad putting in performances way ahead of his years, yet he’s still being criticised for not being able to defend by some..🤷‍♂️


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			That was our best performance in 30+years and you still found something to complain about??

I’m lost for words.
		
Click to expand...

Agree - it was superb , I can’t find fault with it and it made a excellent statement. For me the midfield were outstanding. Just excellent.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 27, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			He’s a 21yr old lad putting in performances way ahead of his years, yet he’s still being criticised for not being able to defend by some..🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Madness isn’t it,these players are very rare.
100 games already.
Just has a very bright future.
Best crosser of a ball since Beckham


----------



## fundy (Dec 27, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			He’s a 21yr old lad putting in performances way ahead of his years, yet he’s still being criticised for not being able to defend by some..🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...


long term do you think he stays at right back or becomes a midfielder?


----------



## GG26 (Dec 27, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			I agree
I will also add that TAA performance was up there with any I’ve seen in a long while.
		
Click to expand...

I thought TAA was outstanding.  Was watching him and Ben Chilwell in the second half, TAA is on another level and can be England's right back for many years to come.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Agree - it was superb , I can’t find fault with it and it made a excellent statement. For me the midfield were outstanding. Just excellent.
		
Click to expand...

Impossible to pick MoTM, they’ve travelled half way around the world to the desert and put aperformance of that magnitude. Incredible.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			Madness isn’t it,these players are very rare.
100 games already.
Just has a very bright future.
Best crosser of a ball since Beckham
		
Click to expand...

It is. Though football has changed, fullbacks especially in our team, They are as important offensively not just there to defend. 

100 games at the level he’s played at is insane.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2019)

fundy said:



			long term do you think he stays at right back or becomes a midfielder?
		
Click to expand...

It’s a guess but I’d like him to be the worlds best RB than another top midfielder. He’s got the ability though to move into the middle.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 27, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			It’s a guess but I’d like him to be the worlds best RB than another top midfielder. He’s got the ability though to move into the middle.
		
Click to expand...

Obviously the one fault people find with him is the defensive side. At his age, that will come I’d imagine, and if it doesn’t then at least with the way you play, the positive he brings far our way any deficiencies he may at time show.  I think he’s already the best attacking fullback in world football atm tbh. 

Selfishly I’d love to see him at cm for England as his creative attributes are ahead of the usual destructive mild field we put together. Plus I think Wan Bisakka is an able rb to keep things tight if the midfield has a little more licence.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Obviously the one fault people find with him is the defensive side. At his age, that will come I’d imagine, and if it doesn’t then at least with the way you play, the positive he brings far our way any deficiencies he may at time show.  I think he’s already the best attacking fullback in world football atm tbh.

Selfishly I’d love to see him at cm for England as his creative attributes are ahead of the usual destructive mild field we put together. Plus I think Wan Bisakka is an able rb to keep things tight if the midfield has a little more licence.
		
Click to expand...

I get that but sometimes a bit of reality/common sense needs to be used when talking about his fault. He’s  a 21yr old elite athlete who is learning every single game. Luckily he’s in the same back four as VVD. Imagine how much better he’d be in Yerniteds defence ☺️☺️

I’d like him to retire from international football 😉


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 27, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I get that but sometimes a bit of reality/common sense needs to be used when talking about his fault. He’s  a 21yr old elite athlete who is learning every single game. Luckily he’s in the same back four as VVD. Imagine how much better he’d be in Yerniteds defence ☺️☺️

I’d like him to retire from international football 😉
		
Click to expand...

He’d certainly be getting more practice on his defensive work at Utd 😂😂

How old’s Robertson? Mid 20’s? You guys have 4/5 of your defence pretty much sewn up for the next half a dozen years.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			He’d certainly be getting more practice on his defensive work at Utd 😂😂

How old’s Robertson? Mid 20’s? You guys have 4/5 of your defence pretty much sewn up for the next half a dozen years.
		
Click to expand...

Haha you’re not wrong.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I get that but sometimes a bit of reality/common sense needs to be used when talking about his fault. He’s  a 21yr old elite athlete who is learning every single game. Luckily he’s in the same back four as VVD. Imagine how much better he’d be in Yerniteds defence ☺️☺️

I’d like him to retire from international football 😉
		
Click to expand...

I don’t see him moving to CM , don’t see the need tbh and don’t think it will suit him , he is a right back and imo the best in the league - his defensive work is still excellent as he showed last night with some of his covering at times. 

It also great to see Gomez getting back to his best and showing why imo he should be Englands number one CB.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don’t see him moving to CM , don’t see the need tbh and don’t think it will suit him , he is a right back and imo the best in the league - his defensive work is still excellent as he showed last night with some of his covering at times.

It also great to see Gomez getting back to his best and showing why imo he should be Englands number one CB.
		
Click to expand...

I'd like to see that midfield 3 evolve over the next few seasons though. 

I thought Henderson was superb last night in that 3. Hes not the class of a KDB but he does a particular job very well.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I'd like to see that midfield 3 evolve over the next few seasons though.

I thought Henderson was superb last night in that 3. Hes not the class of a KDB but he does a particular job very well.
		
Click to expand...

Fabinho and Keita are going to get develop more and more - it’s then about replacing Henderson as he gets to the twilight of his career but they are already developing to become more than just industrious and are adding creativity plus with Keita and hopefully the Ox adding goals. The new guy from Salzburg will also add more


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 27, 2019)

Had to be a penalty. Too many occasions pens have been given for people stepping on ankles. Couldn't say no.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 27, 2019)

VAR........Oh help me god!


----------



## fundy (Dec 27, 2019)

ref wasnt stopping till he got city a goal there was he lol


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2019)

Wolves fans singing my thoughts on VAR


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2019)

Ederson sent off,a missed pen,retake pen missed and the rebound slotted chaos at Wolves


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Had to be a penalty. Too many occasions pens have been given for people stepping on ankles. Couldn't say no.
		
Click to expand...

They could. but they wont. that attitude is why refs are so inconsistent. too many times the wrong decision has been given but it has now become the standard.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			VAR........Oh help me god!

Click to expand...

That was a typical coming together. But didnt Brighton get a pen for something similar few weeks ago against your lot?

I'm just so glad VAR is owned by liverpool 🤭🤭


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Ederson sent off,a missed pen,retake pen missed and the rebound slotted chaos at Wolves
		
Click to expand...

Nah, typical City game 😂


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 27, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			They could. but they wont. that attitude is why refs are so inconsistent. too many times the wrong decision has been given but it has now become the standard.
		
Click to expand...

I think both times I’ve seen it, VAR has ruled it a penalty. Not the ref. I mean having your foot stepped on is blatantly going to disrupt you, but when it’s accidental a penalty seems very harsh. 

Just heard the current footballers called snowflakes in a mans game. Twitter could be fun after that by the commentary.


----------



## adam6177 (Dec 27, 2019)

Unfortunately the powers that be have created a set of rules whereby handball has different criteria depending on if you're attacking or defending and also different rules on encroachment depending on if you're attacking or defending.

Its a sham really... They seem to be doing their best to ruin the game.


----------



## fundy (Dec 27, 2019)

what i cant stand is those who have adjudged it a penalty on the screens can clearly see that it hasnt caused Mahrezs swan dive reaction that he should be booked for not rewarded for

they pick and choose whats a foul and what isnt week in week out without any consistency whatsoever and the paying fan is supposed to just accept the garbage explanations that change depending on who it is


----------



## Piece (Dec 27, 2019)

Wolves fans are going feral. I’ll be on my own here, but VAR was right in all cases.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2019)

Piece said:



			Wolves fans are going feral. I’ll be on my own here, but VAR was right in all cases.
		
Click to expand...

He has Impeded Mahrez but not from a challenge, just purely by running with mahrez. That to me is not an illegal challenge. Though I'm sure our resident ref could confirm?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 27, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			That was a typical coming together. But didnt Brighton get a pen for something similar few weeks ago against your lot?

I'm just so glad VAR is owned by liverpool 🤭🤭
		
Click to expand...

He stood on Mahrez’s foot, intentional or not, I’m not sure, useless commentators don’t help by going on and on about Mahrez going down late after he was pulled back, he went down because he was stood on!

Genuinely don’t think VAR favours any Club, every fan can point to good and bad decisions for their team.

Pete did say it evens itself out over a season though.


----------



## fundy (Dec 27, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			He stood on Mahrez’s foot, intentional or not, I’m not sure, useless commentators don’t help by going on and on about Mahrez going down late after he was pulled back, he went down because he was stood on!

Genuinely don’t think VAR favours any Club, every fan can point to good and bad decisions for their team.

Pete did say it evens itself out over a season though.

Click to expand...

how does standing on his foot cause Mahrez to go down as he does?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 27, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			He has Impeded Mahrez but not from a challenge, just purely by running with mahrez. That to me is not an illegal challenge. Though I'm sure our resident ref could confirm?
		
Click to expand...

I think its a grey area, similar to the "coming together" of two sets of legs.

One type can be an attacker instigating it, which isnt a pen, one type can be a penalty if the defender runs on a line that is very likely to end up in a foul and the other can just be an accident and no foul either way. I think this was the latter, although I think the one earlier in the season that City didnt get (Silva at Bournemouth???) should have been a penalty.

The one for/against Everton the other week at Brighton also wasnt a penalty. Intent is a large part of it, and rarely does anyone attempt to stand on someones foot in flight, tackle or kick someone yes, but stand on their foot, not for me.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 27, 2019)

fundy said:



			how does standing on his foot cause Mahrez to go down as he does?
		
Click to expand...

I don’t know, but who decides whether he intentionally stood on him or not?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 27, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			He stood on Mahrez’s foot, intentional or not, I’m not sure, useless commentators don’t help by going on and on about Mahrez going down late after he was pulled back, he went down because he was stood on!

Genuinely don’t think VAR favours any Club, every fan can point to good and bad decisions for their team.

Pete did say it evens itself out over a season though.

Click to expand...

Pack in you!!!!


----------



## Piece (Dec 27, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			He has Impeded Mahrez but not from a challenge, just purely by running with mahrez. That to me is not an illegal challenge. Though I'm sure our resident ref could confirm?
		
Click to expand...

I’d say it was a careless challenge by the letter of the law, imho.


----------



## fundy (Dec 27, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t know, but who decides whether he intentionally stood on him or not?
		
Click to expand...

why does it matter? if the impact isnt enough to naturally bring him down then its not a penalty


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 27, 2019)

fundy said:



			why does it matter? if the impact isnt enough to naturally bring him down then its not a penalty
		
Click to expand...

If it’s a foul, it’s a foul, naturally bringing him down doesn’t come in to it.
How many times have we heard the cries of “he should of gone down” obviously Mahrez milked the contact, but the idiot in Stockley part decided it was a foul.


----------



## fundy (Dec 27, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			If it’s a foul, it’s a foul, naturally bringing him down doesn’t come in to it.
How many times have we heard the cries of “he should of gone down” obviously Mahrez milked the contact, but the idiot in Stockley part decided it was a foul.
		
Click to expand...

so all contact is a foul? if not how are you deciding whether its a foul or not?


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2019)

Piece said:



			Wolves fans are going feral. I’ll be on my own here, but VAR was right in all cases.
		
Click to expand...

It was but this is my point, those at the game do not have a clue what is going on, what the VAR is looking for. We sat at home chilling out watching X number of replays.Listening to ex pros arguing if it was or wasn’t. Handball if your an attacker  or if your a defender. Etc etc. Does my bloody head in.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 27, 2019)

fundy said:



			so all contact is a foul? if not how are you deciding whether its a foul or not?
		
Click to expand...

I’m not, like I said, the idiot at Stockley Park decide it was an intentional act.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2019)

fundy said:



			why does it matter? if the impact isnt enough to naturally bring him down then its not a penalty
		
Click to expand...

So let’s get this right, a player stands on another’s foot whilst wearing studs, he has the equivalent of skool plimsoles on not pit boots and in the next step he is to cross the ball. How many players have had broken metatarsals by standing on feet.


----------



## fundy (Dec 27, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			So let’s get this right, a player stands on another’s foot whilst wearing studs, he has the equivalent of skool plimsoles on not pit boots and in the next step he is to cross the ball. How many p,Ayers have had broken metatarsals by standing on feet.
		
Click to expand...


wtf has that got to do with anything?

if i stand on your foot with studs on the one thing you dont do is lift your feet and your head and arch your back as if youre a swan

are you seriously claiming Mahrez reaction is natural?


seems were playing different rules at the other end lol


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			If it’s a foul, it’s a foul, naturally bringing him down doesn’t come in to it.
How many times have we heard the cries of “he should of gone down” obviously Mahrez milked the contact, but the idiot in Stockley part decided it was a foul.
		
Click to expand...

That idiot is on me Xmas card list.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2019)

fundy said:



			wtf has that got to do with anything?

if i stand on your foot with studs on the one thing you dont do is lift your feet and your head and arch your back as if youre a swan

are you seriously claiming Mahrez reaction is natural?


seems were playing different rules at the other end lol
		
Click to expand...

Going to the floor is natural when your foot is stood on. Here’s a thought, don’t stand on a players foot, accidental or not.


----------



## fundy (Dec 27, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Going to the floor is natural when your foot is stood on. Here’s a thought, don’t stand on a players foot, accidental or not.
		
Click to expand...

go and stand on a few peoples feet, see how many of them "go down" via a swan dive


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 27, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Going to the floor is natural when your foot is stood on. Here’s a thought, don’t stand on a players foot, accidental or not.
		
Click to expand...

How on earth does someone make sure they don’t stand on someone’s foot by accident?? 😂😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2019)

Piece said:



			I’d say it was a careless challenge by the letter of the law, imho.
		
Click to expand...

Fair do's but I'll have to disagree, as there was no challenge.


----------



## dronfield (Dec 27, 2019)

Piece said:



			Nice draw up at the Blades. Foster with a worldy in the second half.

The thing most impressive about Liverpool is the quality of the crosses. On point almost always.
		
Click to expand...

It was a worldy - we were on our feet to celebrate a goal, cant believe he saved that!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2019)

Go on the Wolves 😂


----------



## Piece (Dec 27, 2019)

Mendy 😂


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 27, 2019)

Well if Liverpool don't win it now they never will. 

Go on homer. Back em for the title 😂😂


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2019)

Piece said:



			Mendy 😂
		
Click to expand...

Should he of gone down when Traore went through his back, damned if he does damned if he don’t. Should of smashed it clear. Got what we deserved.


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 27, 2019)

Hey bazzatron, what times more on motd bro? 😂


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			How on earth does someone make sure they don’t stand on someone’s foot by accident?? 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

So it’s only a foul If he stands on his foot on purpose, 😳 why would he do that.


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 27, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Should he of gone down when Traore went through his back, damned if he does damned if he don’t. Should of smashed it clear. Got what we deserved.
		
Click to expand...

It was a foul for me


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			It was a foul for me
		
Click to expand...

It was for me but it was terrible defending.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2019)

It was a foul - the player was impeded but Mahrez also dived because the contact didn’t mean Mahrez had to swan dive

Penalty but would have also booked Mahrez


----------



## Piece (Dec 27, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Should he of gone down when Traore went through his back, damned if he does damned if he don’t. Should of smashed it clear. Got what we deserved.
		
Click to expand...

Last bit, indeed. Take the uncertainty out of the equation and hoof it clear.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 27, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			So it’s only a foul If he stands on his foot on purpose, 😳 why would he do that.
		
Click to expand...

I didn’t say that. Of course some fouls aren’t necessarily on purpose. 

But you said someone shouldn’t do it by accident or not. The very definition of an accident is something done unintentionally. You can’t stop yourself doing something unintentionally.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2019)

Piece said:



			Mendy 😂
		
Click to expand...

I dont know what would annoy me most if I was a citizen, Mendy losing the ball how he did or the fact he showed no remorse afterwards instead laughed/smirked.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			It was a foul for me
		
Click to expand...

The size of mendy, he should be doing better.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I dont know what would annoy me most if I was a citizen, Mendy losing the ball how he did or *the fact he showed no remorse afterwards instead laughed/smirked.*

Click to expand...

Mercenaries just after the money and don’t care


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 27, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was a foul - the player was impeded but Mahrez also dived because the contact didn’t mean Mahrez had to swan dive

Penalty but would have also booked Mahrez
		
Click to expand...

Just for a bit of fun let’s pretend that this is one of Mane’s dives.
Let’s hear your spin on it 😆


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I didn’t say that. Of course some fouls aren’t necessarily on purpose.

But you said someone shouldn’t do it by accident or not. The very definition of an accident is something done unintentionally. You can’t stop yourself doing something unintentionally.
		
Click to expand...

So it’s still a foul, but that’s the fourth time it’s happened to a City player this year. 4 accidents, yet some have been penalty’s, some haven’t. I am of the way of thinking that some accidents that were part and parcel of the game before VAR are now being shown up for what they are. Eg shirt pulling in the box.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 27, 2019)

I



Tashyboy said:



			So it’s still a foul, but that’s the fourth time it’s happened to a City player this year. 4 accidents, yet some have been penalty’s, some haven’t. I am of the way of thinking that some accidents that were part and parcel of the game before VAR are now being shown up for what they are. Eg shirt pulling in the box.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t think shirt pulling is ever an accident tbh. I don’t know the incidents you’re referring too. Am looking forward to peps interview 😂


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 27, 2019)

The shameless thievery of both the allez and firmino songs is unforgivable tho 😠


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 27, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			The size of mendy, he should be doing better.
		
Click to expand...

No doubt, but even big men can be fouled 👍


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			No doubt, but even big men can be fouled 👍
		
Click to expand...

That's not a foul, he's jockeying it out he's gotta be stronger.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 27, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			That's not a foul, he's jockeying it out he's gotta be stronger.
		
Click to expand...

I couldn’t understand why was he jockeying it out when it came of a City player last, the dope should of just row z’d it for a throw in.

Certainly the correct result though.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 27, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			That was our best performance in 30+years and you still found something to complain about??

I’m lost for words.[/QUOT E

He has been shocking for most of the season.
It’s glossed over because he scores goals
He didn’t look  happy , so he thinks he is playing ok
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 27, 2019)

On yesterday’s performance he couldn’t have done much more apart from score.

You’ve got a point he’s not been at his usual best but to say he’s been shocking is an over reaction.

He’s still put a shift in every time he’s played. I think he’s still carrying an injury caused by Choudhury. 

He didn’t look happy going off, most players don’t.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 27, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			On yesterday’s performance he couldn’t have done much more apart from score.

You’ve got a point he’s not been at his usual best but to say he’s been shocking is an over reaction.

He’s still put a shift in every time he’s played. I think he’s still carrying an injury caused by Choudhury.

He didn’t look happy going off, most players don’t.
		
Click to expand...

I watched him carefully and I agree I think he has a problem.
If so why is he playing, get it sorted.
I just think it highlighted it , the whole team were fantastic but Salah looks out of sorts ,imo .
We scored three goals when he went off, but should have scored 8/9
I was nervous when we were only 1-0 up. And missing so many chances.

It’s just my nature, I was a troubleshooter and was trained to look for faults.
( maybe I should keep it to myself! Not really moaning just frustrating seeing so many chances go begging.)
Was very disappointed with Leicester but we just didn’t give them anything.
My initial thought was Brendan was helping us with his tactics as he seemed to get it very wrong.
You can’t give TAA that much room or he will punish you!!


----------



## Bazzatron (Dec 28, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			The shameless thievery of both the allez and firmino songs is unforgivable tho 😠
		
Click to expand...

I assume you mean you lot robbing it from River Plate, Dave?


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I watched him carefully and I agree I think he has a problem.
If so why is he playing, get it sorted.
I just think it highlighted it , the whole team were fantastic but Salah looks out of sorts ,imo .
We scored three goals when he went off, but should have scored 8/9
I was nervous when we were only 1-0 up. And missing so many chances.

It’s just my nature, I was a troubleshooter and was trained to look for faults.
( maybe I should keep it to myself! Not really moaning just frustrating seeing so many chances go begging.)
Was very disappointed with Leicester but we just didn’t give them anything.
My initial thought was Brendan was helping us with his tactics as he seemed to get it very wrong.
You can’t give TAA that much room or he will punish you!!
		
Click to expand...

Remember these players are human, they’re not perfect and do make mistakes.

We are witnessing an exceptional footballing side, producing some of the finest displays this club has produced just enjoy it.


----------



## Bazzatron (Dec 28, 2019)

A rather enjoyable night out.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			A rather enjoyable night out.
		
Click to expand...

I had a rather enjoyable night in. 😉


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 28, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			I assume you mean you lot robbing it from River Plate, Dave? 

Click to expand...

😂😂 touche 


Ours is a tip of the hat, cross continental, mutual respect version

Yours is more car left on bricks scenario 

🤔


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Remember these players are human, they’re not perfect and do make mistakes.

We are witnessing an exceptional footballing side, producing some of the finest displays this club has produced just enjoy it.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I totally agree.
I am just thinking out loud sometimes, but it’s looks different written down I get that.
Klopp has transformed the club into winners again, he has worked wonders .
I wasn’t big fan at first ,but you can’t argue with where we are and the football we play.

I do still go To the game now and again but the nerves still get to me at 1-0 and missing golden chances.
It’s actually worse on TV as they show it  up more.
Let’s hope we carry on and win it in style, unbeaten would be nice.

Where do u think Minamino will fit,?
Looking forward to seeing him play.


----------



## Kellfire (Dec 28, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I totally agree.
I am just thinking out loud sometimes, but it’s looks different written down I get that.
Klopp has transformed the club into winners again, he has worked wonders .
I wasn’t big fan at first ,but you can’t argue with where we are and the football we play.

I do still go To the game now and again but the nerves still get to me at 1-0 and missing golden chances.
It’s actually worse on TV as they show it  up more.
Let’s hope we carry on and win it in style, unbeaten would be nice.

Where do u think Minamino will fit,?
Looking forward to seeing him play.
		
Click to expand...

One of Salah or Mane could leave in the summer IMO. The “problem” with winning everything is people then look to try new things.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 28, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			One of Salah or Mane could leave in the summer IMO. The “problem” with winning everything is people then look to try new things.
		
Click to expand...

We havnt had that problem in the PL yet.
You may be right , but why leave the best team In club football atm.
WE should have no problem replacing them ,that’s where nobody is bigger than the team.
If they want to leave so be it.


----------



## Fish (Dec 28, 2019)

Justice was served, I thought the Wolves players were excellent in their constant belief that they could get something still out of the game, but then to go on and win it was just superb. 

I really rate and admire Nuno, I think he’s an excellent manager, I enjoy his post interviews, they’re so balanced and honest. 

I don’t know many successful managers that were goalkeepers, haven’t looked into it but there can’t be many.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			One of Salah or Mane could leave in the summer IMO. The “problem” with winning everything is people then look to try new things.
		
Click to expand...

And just like we did when Coutinho went we will replace them. But there is also a bigger chance that others may want to join


----------



## Kellfire (Dec 28, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			We havnt had that problem in the PL yet.
You may be right , but why leave the best team In club football atm.
WE should have no problem replacing them ,that’s where nobody is bigger than the team.
If they want to leave so be it.
		
Click to expand...

Was just an answer to your question about where the new guys plays. No judgement in it.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 28, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And just like we did when Coutinho went we will replace them. But there is also a bigger chance that others may want to join
		
Click to expand...

But with each player you have to replace there is a risk it'll all unfold. You only Win in the transfer game for so long. Happens to all clubs eventually. 

I'd also say that Taking Mane or Salah out of that team will be harder to replace than Coutinho. When he left there were reports that showed his effect in your team was actually minimal in regards to performance improvements.


----------



## Bazzatron (Dec 28, 2019)

Fish said:



			Justice was served, I thought the Wolves players were excellent in their constant belief that they could get something still out of the game, but then to go on and win it was just superb.

I really rate and admire Nuno, I think he’s an excellent manager, I enjoy his post interviews, they’re so balanced and honest.

I don’t know many successful managers that were goalkeepers, haven’t looked into it but there can’t be many.
		
Click to expand...

He attributes a lot of it to being on the bench and being able to understand why the manager was making the decisions and choices that they were doing. Also when he was on the pitch he could see the whole of the game from his box. He's an absolute genius.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2019)

Fish said:



			Justice was served, I thought the Wolves players were excellent in their constant belief that they could get something still out of the game, but then to go on and win it was just superb.

I really rate and admire Nuno, I think he’s an excellent manager, I enjoy his post interviews, they’re so balanced and honest.

I don’t know many successful managers that were goalkeepers, haven’t looked into it but there can’t be many.
		
Click to expand...

Dont know that Justice was deserved, but the result certainly was. Wolves thoroughly deserved there victory. Don’t know who set Nuno on as manager but they deserve massive praise for thinking outside the McCarthy, Pullis, Hughes box. 
Love his style of football. Adams is just brutal and seems to be adding more to his game.
The result aside, I thought last night there was a hell of a lot wrong with the game. VAR, Amazon. My lad was telling me Wolves had scored 30 seconds before the actual goal on telly via alerts he received on his phone. 
Don’t think anyone has actually won the title before the New year before. 
Good job City’s got money to spend on defenders 😉


----------



## Fish (Dec 28, 2019)

Nothing wrong with Amazon imo. Excellent coverage, love the ability to watch short or medium highlights or the full match plus separate interviews as I did this morning, competition is a good thing, especially away from the Sky monopoly.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			But with each player you have to replace there is a risk it'll all unfold. You only Win in the transfer game for so long. Happens to all clubs eventually.

I'd also say that Taking Mane or Salah out of that team will be harder to replace than Coutinho. When he left there were reports that showed his effect in your team was actually minimal in regards to performance improvements.
		
Click to expand...

Always a risk when the best players leave but the best managers get paid to replace those and build from that - when Coutinho left at the time people were happy to say that it would weaken us. Klopp and his team have shown they can spend well in the transfer market , and shown it again with the recent signing


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 28, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Always a risk when the best players leave but the best managers get paid to replace those and build from that - when Coutinho left at the time people were happy to say that it would weaken us. Klopp and his team have shown they can spend well in the transfer market , and shown it again with the recent signing
		
Click to expand...

I think it's too easy to overlook that some managers attract players, and Klopp is probably one of those


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2019)

Fish said:



			Nothing wrong with Amazon imo. Excellent coverage, love the ability to watch short or medium highlights or the full match plus separate interviews as I did this morning, competition is a good thing, especially away from the Sky monopoly.
		
Click to expand...

Sky need a massive wake up call

Prices keep rising whilst content gets worse


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 28, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Sky need a massive wake up call

Prices keep rising whilst content gets worse
		
Click to expand...

Fully agree. My Sky sports package is being cancelled this week. It is not worth the money as it is.


----------



## Slime (Dec 28, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Fully agree. *My Sky sports package is being cancelled this week. *It is not worth the money as it is.
		
Click to expand...

Then get a free 30 day trial whilst the US Masters is on.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 28, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			You may be right , but why leave the best team In club football atm.
WE should have no problem replacing them ,that’s where nobody is bigger than the team.
If they want to leave so be it.
		
Click to expand...

Why does any player leave a winning team? A big signing on fee, a big increase in salary. If Real offer £400k a week then that player is off. Sad but true.


----------



## Wolf (Dec 28, 2019)

Slime said:



			Then get a free 30 day trial whilst the US Masters is on. 

Click to expand...

Just download Mobdro on amazon firestick and watch it all year round for free 😉


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Why does any player leave a winning team? A big signing on fee, a big increase in salary. If Real offer £400k a week then that player is off. Sad but true.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe in the past and we have lost players but they mainly left to chase the trophies and the club have looked to have cashed in . The last main two players we sold were both chasing moves to clubs they looked for as kids - at the moment whilst we are challenging I don’t see our main guys looking for moves


----------



## Kellfire (Dec 28, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe in the past and we have lost players but they mainly left to chase the trophies and the club have looked to have cashed in . The last main two players we sold were both chasing moves to clubs they looked for as kids - at the moment whilst we are challenging I don’t see our main guys looking for moves
		
Click to expand...

Of course they aren’t. Liverpool with their first league win in almost thirty years approaching, in a notoriously difficult part of the country to attract players to are the biggest draw in world football and will only attract the biggest and best in the world.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Of course they aren’t. Liverpool with their first league win in almost thirty years approaching, in a notoriously difficult part of the country to attract players to are the *biggest draw in world football and will only attract the biggest and best in the world.*

Click to expand...

I must have missed where someone has said that ?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 28, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Why does any player leave a winning team? A big signing on fee, a big increase in salary. If Real offer £400k a week then that player is off. Sad but true.
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough.
But if they just want money they can leave .
Didn’t quite work for Coutino.


----------



## Fish (Dec 28, 2019)

VAR strikes again, we’re talking millimetres ffs, it’s killing the game 😡

I think all the Chairmen, Owners, managers etc need to call an EGM, this can’t continue, surely 🤔


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

just when you think VAR couldn’t get any worse 😡😡


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 28, 2019)

Just a ridiculous decision. VAR is killing the game.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

Fish said:



			VAR strikes again, we’re talking millimetres ffs, it’s killing the game 😡

I think all the Chairmen, Owners, managers etc need to call an EGM, this can’t continue, surely 🤔
		
Click to expand...

Apparently it was given offside as he judged to have come from an offside position but when the ball is played he’s onside........


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 28, 2019)

I think a hair from his chinny chin chin, or perhaps armpit hair, was in front of the defender.


----------



## Fish (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Apparently it was given offside as he judged to have come from an offside position but when the ball is played he’s onside........
		
Click to expand...

Well because we don’t know what the decision has been based on, other than offside, we’re guessing that that’s the case and not those stupid lines showing his erect nipple was in front 😳


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2019)

VAR just keeps on ruining the game - I don’t think any fan or player or manager supports it in its current form


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 28, 2019)

I am still in support of var, but they need to change the rule for offside. 

Make it feet versus feet an attackers skill/instinct is being punished now. If they start to even head in the wrong direction they get punished.


----------



## Fish (Dec 28, 2019)

They’ve just said he was offside in the build up, but they need to clarify that more, in fact there you go, it’s after or as the ball was passed, so we’re talking stupid millimetres again which isn’t a clear & obvious error by an official, this is sterilising the game beyond enjoyment.


----------



## Old Skier (Dec 28, 2019)

Never off side, even the officials cant agree why it was disallowed


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

Fish said:



			They’ve just said he was offside in the build up, but they need to clarify that more, in fact there you go, it’s after or as the ball was passed, so we’re talking stupid millimetres again which isn’t a clear & obvious error by an official, this is sterilising the game beyond enjoyment.
		
Click to expand...

This is the result of the “rules in black & white” brigade. 

I hope the armchair fans are happy with what they’ve got, as match going fan it’s horrible.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			Never off side, even the officials cant agree why it was disallowed
		
Click to expand...

How can that technology prove he’s ahead of the centre half when it s from behind the play and not inline? It’s pathetic.

Also, what advantage has he gained from that position?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			This is the result of the “rules in black & white” brigade.

*I hope the armchair fans are happy with what they’ve got, as match going fan it’s horrible.*

Click to expand...

It’s not their fault that VAR was brought it and is poor


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 28, 2019)

Agree with you lot even though it's saved us. He's never offside there, in the entire history of the game that would have been seen as level with the defender. And it still should be. How can you say the man in the studio stopped it at the right frame as when he played the ball, or drew the line up from the players knee correctly or whatever? Just because we've got the tech doesn't mean you can define it to 1mm. It just needs looking at with the naked eye (on the replay) and say he's either clearly off or he's level. Why can't it be that simple.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s not their fault that VAR was brought it and is poor
		
Click to expand...

They done the majority of the Cry arsing on SM  when decisions went against them  calling for VAR during the games. Sky have massively pedalled the “ refs need help”, “ a video ref is needed” etc  lines.


----------



## brendy (Dec 28, 2019)

Given there was an awareness that Pukki himself was offside and made efforts to get back onside I think to judge him offside is plain wrong. Something has to change, I'd love to see it modified to count as the trailing edge, if any of the player is on side then it's fair game, if we are to judge by millimetres then it's gone too far, hell why not put a sensor in each players shirt.


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 28, 2019)

I can’t stand var one bit, wish it never came in. It’s too subjective for fouls. 

But surely offside is offside and is a matter of fact, just like a ball being 1mm over the line is a goal. I don’t mind it tbh


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Agree with you lot even though it's saved us. He's never offside there, in the entire history of the game that would have been seen as level with the defender. And it still should be. How can you say the man in the studio stopped it at the right frame as when he played the ball, or drew the line up from the players knee correctly or whatever? Just because we've got the tech doesn't mean you can define it to 1mm. It just needs looking at with the naked eye (on the replay) and say he's either clearly off or he's level. Why can't it be that simple.
		
Click to expand...

Define clearly?? 😁😁

Offside is about gaining an advantage, being offside because your shoulder is past the last defender isn’t gaining an advantage.


----------



## Old Skier (Dec 28, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Agree with you lot even though it's saved us. He's never offside there, in the entire history of the game that would have been seen as level with the defender. And it still should be. How can you say the man in the studio stopped it at the right frame as when he played the ball, or drew the line up from the players knee correctly or whatever? Just because we've got the tech doesn't mean you can define it to 1mm. It just needs looking at with the naked eye (on the replay) and say he's either clearly off or he's level. Why can't it be that simple.
		
Click to expand...

It's is that simple, VAR is just another excuse to pay more officials to get it wrong. There's 4 pitch side, if they can't get it right they shouldn't be there.


----------



## fundy (Dec 28, 2019)

Anyone else think that the VAR centre gave the offside for the wrong reason (ie coming back from an offside position) then covered their arses with some oddly drawn lines and claimed that as the reason once they realised their error? Or am i further down the conspiracy route theory than most haha


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 28, 2019)

If var is good for 1 thing it's offsides,  no amount of wailing will change that. 
Lots of confusion from some of you about offsides and the term clear obvious error .


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

fundy said:



			Anyone else think that the VAR centre gave the offside for the wrong reason (ie coming back from an offside position) then covered their arses with some oddly drawn lines and claimed that as the reason once they realised their error? Or am i further down the conspiracy route theory than most haha
		
Click to expand...

#teamfundy


----------



## Old Skier (Dec 28, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			If var is good for 1 thing it's offsides,  no amount of wailing will change that.
Lots of confusion from some of you about offsides and the term clear obvious error .
		
Click to expand...

Then why was he given off side. The naked eye could tell he wasn't IMO so was it for coming back.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 28, 2019)

Well in other news at least Foyth has been taken off. Absolutely bloody useless. The sooner he's out of the club the better.


----------



## Fish (Dec 28, 2019)

No confusion from me, it’s shite, pure & simple, and offside isn’t always offside imo, it’s not 100% that you can score with your shoulder, so as Stu states, how can having a part of your shoulder in front by millimetres be advantageous. It needs reviewing, and quickly.


----------



## Fish (Dec 28, 2019)

Is this the future, really!!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			They done the majority of the Cry arsing on SM  when decisions went against them  calling for VAR during the games. Sky have massively pedalled the “ refs need help”, “ a video ref is needed” etc  lines.
		
Click to expand...

VAR didn’t get implemented because of people watching on telly complaining about poor decisions - it was nothing to do with the fans. Clubs and managers video analysis the games to the 9th degree and they are the reason why it was brought in - not the “armchair fans”


----------



## Fish (Dec 28, 2019)

Is it too late to send Aurier a Christmas card 😂😂

im not sure how he gets a place, he can’t cross, his defending is debatable, I’ve not seen him have even half a decent game, I hope he stays for years to come 😜


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 28, 2019)

I just can't understand why we are so crap sometimes. Ridiculous.


----------



## Slime (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			This is the result of the “rules in black & white” brigade.

*I hope the armchair fans are happy with what they’ve got*, as match going fan it’s horrible.
		
Click to expand...

I'm actually surprised that us mere armchair fans are allowed on a forum to discuss football. 

In other news, Norwich are playing some fabulous football and thoroughly deserve to be in front, but unfortunately it's all about VAR.
They must get it right or bin it.
I really hope Norwich avoid relegation ....................... I love listening to their manager, too.


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 28, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I just can't understand why we are so crap sometimes. Ridiculous.
		
Click to expand...

Dele Alli is back in your team mate, end of


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			This is the result of the “rules in black & white” brigade.

I hope the armchair fans are happy with what they’ve got, as match going fan it’s horrible.
		
Click to expand...

As I have been saying all season 👍


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2019)

Slime said:



			I'm actually surprised that us mere armchair fans are allowed on a forum to discuss football. 

In other news, Norwich are playing some fabulous football and thoroughly deserve to be in front, but unfortunately it's all about VAR.
They must get it right or bin it.
I really hope Norwich avoid relegation ....................... I love listening to their manager, too.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t think your getting what Stu C is saying. The beautiful game was built by the passion of fans going to games. Following there team for 30 plus years when they have not won a title or cup City and Liverpool. Those same fans that go are forgotten by the tv money and the very “ armchair “ fans that pay Sky, BT, Amazon etc etc TV money. TV fans see every angle conceivable.yet what do match going fans see. Sod all. Don’t get me wrong, tash will be an armchair fan next year. Ave seen both sides and as a match going fan, they are getting the stinky end of a shitty stick.


----------



## Piece (Dec 28, 2019)

I wonder if we will see the pitch side VAR monitor used this season?


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 28, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			I don’t think your getting what Stu C is saying. The beautiful game was built by the passion of fans going to games. Following there team for 30 plus years when they have not won a title or cup City and Liverpool. Those same fans that go are forgotten by the tv money and the very “ armchair “ fans that pay Sky, BT, Amazon etc etc TV money. TV fans see every angle conceivable.yet what do match going fans see. Sod all. Don’t get me wrong, tash will be an armchair fan next year. Ave seen both sides and as a match going fan, they are getting the stinky end of a shitty stick.
		
Click to expand...

What I don't get is the looking down the nose at armchair fans. Not everyone is able to go to games. I do think those fans that turn up week after week, all over the country are the true die-hard fans but don't like getting sneered at for being an armchair fan (and carpark golfer)!

Also..."Armchair fans like what they've got"...did we really ask for VAR? I certainly didn't and am pretty sure Sky et al pouring over every angle and slagging off referees plus the huge amounts of money at stake, are more the culprit for its introduction. It has ruined the game as a spectator sport full stop - live or on the box. When Pukki (love that name) scored I cheered but choked it short as there was every chance it may not stand. Seeing the VAR decision is even more frustrating.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 28, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			I don’t think your getting what Stu C is saying. The beautiful game was built by the passion of fans going to games. Following there team for 30 plus years when they have not won a title or cup City and Liverpool. Those same fans that go are forgotten by the tv money and the very “ armchair “ fans that pay Sky, BT, Amazon etc etc TV money. TV fans see every angle conceivable.yet what do match going fans see. Sod all. Don’t get me wrong, tash will be an armchair fan next year. Ave seen both sides and as a match going fan, they are getting the stinky end of a shitty stick.
		
Click to expand...

Aren’t you and Stu sitting in armchairs tonight moaning about decisions? 

Bringing VAR in has nothing to do with you being at the match or watching it at home, it is about getting the decisions correct. 

Just because the system is not being used correctly or the rules should of been clarified prior to them bringing it in has no bearing on were supporters are when these decisions are being well and truly messed up.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Aren’t you and Stu sitting in armchairs tonight moaning about decisions?

Bringing VAR in has nothing to do with you being at the match or watching it at home, it is about getting the decisions correct.

Just because the system is not being used correctly or the rules should of been clarified prior to them bringing it in has no bearing on were supporters are when these decisions are being well and truly messed up.
		
Click to expand...

👍

Exactly that - not sure how anything to do with VAR can be blamed on “armchair” fans 

And people watching on telly also at times haven’t got a clue what’s going on with it


----------



## Captainron (Dec 28, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Was just an answer to your question about where the new guys plays. No judgement in it.
		
Click to expand...

And I think there is a bit of truth in what you say. 

Also, and I say this with the greatest respect, if Barca or Real come calling then most players listen because they are massive clubs.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			VAR didn’t get implemented because of people watching on telly complaining about poor decisions - it was nothing to do with the fans. Clubs and managers video analysis the games to the 9th degree and they are the reason why it was brought in - not the “armchair fans”
		
Click to expand...

Its the narrative that was set by sky and the likes and the Armchair fans peddle it.

They set the agenda. A bit like when Andy Gray was at sky and certain managers used Zonal Marking, his opinion became gospel and every Armchair fan you spoke to would just recite what he'd said the day/days  before.

Refs didn't want Video assistance. Its causing chaos to the game. 

That said, I stand by my thoughts last season, until we get better refs we'll still get rubbish decisions.


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 28, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			Then why was he given off side. The naked eye could tell he wasn't IMO so was it for coming back.
		
Click to expand...

We don't need the  naked eye for offside.
VAR will tell you, that's the point of it.
Whether it's millimetres or several feet offside is offside


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Its the narrative that was set by sky and the likes and the Armchair fans peddle it.

They set the agenda. A bit like when Andy Gray was at sky and certain managers used Zonal Marking, his opinion became gospel and every Armchair fan you spoke to would just recite what he'd said the day/days  before.

Refs didn't want Video assistance. Its causing chaos to the game.

That said, I stand by my thoughts last season, until we get better refs we'll still get rubbish decisions.
		
Click to expand...

It’s here to stay mate 
Just wait a few years and the Sky remote will have an appeal button on it for live games.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Aren’t you and *Stu sitting in armchairs tonight moaning about decisions?*

_Bringing VAR in has nothing to do with you being at the match or watching it at home, it is about getting the decisions correct._

Just because the system is not being used correctly or the rules should of been clarified prior to them bringing it in has no bearing on were supporters are when these decisions are being well and truly messed up.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry I cant be at Carrow road tonight.

You're correct, has VAR improved the game to date?


----------



## Old Skier (Dec 28, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			We don't need the  naked eye for offside.
VAR will tell you, that's the point of it.
Whether it's millimetres or several feet offside is offside
		
Click to expand...

And VAR technology is not good enough to accurately work to the accuracy that was required in these instances.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Sorry I cant be at Carrow road tonight.

You're correct, has VAR improved the game to date?
		
Click to expand...

The introduction of VAR has been a disgrace this season, but it’s irrelevant as to were a fan watches the game from.
They don’t review decisions based on how many are in the ground or whether the game is on Sky.
VAR has got more decisions correct than they’ve got wrong, but that’s down to the FA/PL not Sky.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Its the narrative that was set by sky and the likes and the Armchair fans peddle it.

They set the agenda. A bit like when Andy Gray was at sky and certain managers used Zonal Marking, his opinion became gospel and every Armchair fan you spoke to would just recite what he'd said the day/days  before.

Refs didn't want Video assistance. Its causing chaos to the game.

That said, I stand by my thoughts last season, until we get better refs we'll still get rubbish decisions.
		
Click to expand...

it was a narrative also peddled by managers who were losing games by poor decisions , players constantly complaining to the refs about poor decisions , owners losing money because of poor decisions. 

Game going fans also sit there and complain about poor decisions during the game and after in the pub or during motd after etc etc etc

It’s complete nonsense to point fingers at “armchair “ fans as if it’s down to them that VAR was brought in and is being implemented poorly


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

AmandaJR said:



			What I don't get is the looking down the nose at armchair fans. Not everyone is able to go to games. I do think those fans that turn up week after week, all over the country are the true die-hard fans but don't like getting sneered at for being an armchair fan (and carpark golfer)!

Also..."Armchair fans like what they've got"...did we really ask for VAR? I certainly didn't and am pretty sure Sky et al pouring over every angle and slagging off referees plus the huge amounts of money at stake, are more the culprit for its introduction. It has ruined the game as a spectator sport full stop - live or on the box. When Pukki (love that name) scored I cheered but choked it short as there was every chance it may not stand. Seeing the VAR decision is even more frustrating.
		
Click to expand...

Nobody is "looking down the nose at Armchair fans" at all. I just find most of the people who moan actually dont go the game and demand/ want changes to football like VAR. It's ok sitting at home saying yes that's the right decision after it's taken 3 minutes to decide and 100 replays angles.

Now as a fan being in the ground many times this season where  var is being used  its ruining the enjoyment of going. Add in the £59 cost per game it's becoming something it never was and not for the better.


----------



## Piece (Dec 28, 2019)

On a lighter note...😱🤪🤣🤣

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50935795


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2019)

AmandaJR said:



			What I don't get is the looking down the nose at armchair fans. Not everyone is able to go to games. I do think those fans that turn up week after week, all over the country are the true die-hard fans but don't like getting sneered at for being an armchair fan (and carpark golfer)!

Also..."Armchair fans like what they've got"...did we really ask for VAR? I certainly didn't and am pretty sure Sky et al pouring over every angle and slagging off referees plus the huge amounts of money at stake, are more the culprit for its introduction. It has ruined the game as a spectator sport full stop - live or on the box. When Pukki (love that name) scored I cheered but choked it short as there was every chance it may not stand. Seeing the VAR decision is even more frustrating.
		
Click to expand...

Yet but who is looking down there nose, my grief is not with armchair fans, there a long way down a list of my grief with football at the moment. Am fortunate I go and sit on me settee. Hence see both sides.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Nobody is "looking down the nose at Armchair fans" at all. I just find most of the people who moan actually dont go the game and demand/ want changes to football like VAR. It's ok sitting at home saying yes that's the right decision after it's taken 3 minutes to decide and 100 replays angles.

Now as a fan being in the ground many times this season where  var is being used  its ruining the enjoyment of going. Add in the £59 cost per game it's becoming something it never was and not for the better.
		
Click to expand...

Going for a hot shower, I am agreeing with a Liverpool fan 😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			I also don't know a single Liverpool fan with a Scouse accent and I know quite a few.
		
Click to expand...

Have you asked them why they dont support your local team?? 

Unless you live in liverpool or work in the surrounding areas then you'll struggle to find a scouse accent. 

I know a few fellas who fled down the smoke in the 80's for work who dont have a scouse accent but you can still hear certain words and phrases when they speak. 

If it was upto me I'd have a cull and a local knowledge test before you can support us. 

Get rid of the Tarquin from Tunbridge Wells, Sam from Bristol, Phil from Milton Keynes 🤭 super fan brigades 😉


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Have you asked them why they dont support your local team??

Unless you live in liverpool or work in the surrounding areas then you'll struggle to find a scouse accent.

I know a few fellas who fled down the smoke in the 80's for work who dont have a scouse accent but you can still hear certain words and phrases when they speak.

If it was upto me I'd have a cull and a local knowledge test before you can support us.

Get rid of the Tarquin from Tunbridge Wells, Sam from Bristol, Phil from Milton Keynes 🤭 super fan brigades 😉
		
Click to expand...

Most of them are just glory hunters from the 80s , I don't mind and they do buy all those shirts 😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			And VAR technology is not good enough to accurately work to the accuracy that was required in these instances.
		
Click to expand...

I think the tech is, just the absolute buffoons using it is the problem.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Going for a hot shower, I am agreeing with a Liverpool fan 😂
		
Click to expand...

I've ordered  10 gallon of bleach, I've agreed with a scabby, tory miner 😉


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			What a load of crap , Liverpool fc make  over 200 mil of tv money from those armchair fans, that's the biggest source of their income . Without which there'd be no vdv or sala and the like.
		
Click to expand...

Well al tell you this for nowt, when your playing in empty stadiums coz the match day experience is crap. Tell me it’s crap then. Your answer is part of the problem, Stu you can shove your enjoyable experience at £52 a ticket coz your club got £200 million. Guess what, me and Stu were going 30 years ago before Salah and KDB were even born. Before tv killed the game for match going fans. And we will be supporting them in 30 years time? There’s  been comments about people looking down there noses at armchair fans. Me personally I think it’s worse saying match going fans can shove it coz TV paying armchair fans pay more.


----------



## fundy (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I think the tech is, just the absolute buffoons using it is the problem.
		
Click to expand...


not for me, until they can prove how they know which frame to freeze it on to draw their lines for when the ball is kicked, theyre currently guessing/choosing which one they want 

only a matter of time until there is a chip in the ball and the players studs then us armchair fans can know for sure were not being cheated


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I think the tech is, just the absolute buffoons using it is the problem.
		
Click to expand...

For offside it's fine, it either is or isn't. Distance offside is irrelevant. 
Some of the subjective decisions have been laughable  though .


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 28, 2019)

VAR is killing the game. I get the fact that offside is factual and a player is off or on but the delay to prove a big toe was in front of the ball has turned fans off in droves especially for those paying good money to go to a game and sitting there with no idea what is happening. The technology is fine but how it is being used by the refs on the pitch and at Stockley Plark needs dramatic and urgent revamping


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 28, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			For offside it's fine, it either is or isn't. Distance offside is irrelevant. 
Some of the subjective decisions have been laughable  though .
		
Click to expand...

Surely it depends on what frame the video is paused on. It's a subjective decision when to pause the video. One frame early and the player is on side, one frame late and it's offside.


----------



## Slime (Dec 28, 2019)

And on a happier note'


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

fundy said:



			not for me, until they can prove how they know which frame to freeze it on to draw their lines for when the ball is kicked, theyre currently guessing/choosing which one they want

only a matter of time until there is a chip in the ball and the players studs then us armchair fans can know for sure were not being cheated 

Click to expand...

Personaly I'd rather it was canned all together but That can be improved with over time.       

We cant have the arm chair fans not knowing exactly what's going on now can we  🤭


----------



## fundy (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Personaly I'd rather it was canned all together but That can be improved with over time.       

We cant have the arm chair fans not knowing exactly what's going on now can we  🤭
		
Click to expand...


Me too  If they go the chip route theyll even be able to let you game going stalwarts know almost instantly too and then we can all be happy


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 28, 2019)

He goes to one away game an he's the fountain of all knowledge 🙄 what did you have for tea when you got back bro? 

🤦🏻‍♂️


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Nobody is "looking down the nose at Armchair fans" at all. I just find most of the people who moan actually dont go the game and *demand*/ want changes to football like VAR. It's ok sitting at home saying yes that's the right decision after it's taken 3 minutes to decide and 100 replays angles.

Now as a fan being in the ground many times this season where  var is being used  its ruining the enjoyment of going. Add in the £59 cost per game it's becoming something it never was and not for the better.
		
Click to expand...

Can’t and never seen or heard how an armchair fan has demanded anything.

The cost of the ticket is down to greedy owners, there is now more money in the game than there’s ever been.

I totally agree VAR has a bigger effect on the match going fan, but also it has benefitted the match going fan, (Spurs fans in the CL Semi last season etc) nothing worse years ago being at the game and losing only to see later on MOTD that a bad decision has cost you the defeat.

Something needed doing and it still does, but the game is evolving and I can’t see it going back to previous ways.


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 28, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Surely it depends on what frame the video is paused on. It's a subjective decision when to pause the video. One frame early and the player is on side, one frame late and it's offside.
		
Click to expand...

A lot of effort goes into it. It's not just blokes in a studio drawing some lines.😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			He goes to one away game an he's the fountain of all knowledge 🙄 what did you have for tea when you got back bro?

🤦🏻‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂 we never got back to ours til 5 past 2, we had to go back and rescue Tage's coach as it had broke down about 40 mile behind us, fuming ran out of ale too 🤬


----------



## GG26 (Dec 28, 2019)

LCFC changed all outfield players except Jonny Evans from the Liverpool match.  Could be a master stroke by Rodgers, the A team looked to have lost their confidence  and the B team have come in and brought back the winning mentality.  Was expecting a dip in form for a few more games, but maybe we can get on a winning run again.


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 28, 2019)

Yeah I seen that, also heard mono ordered you's back whilst in Barbados 😂

does Tage have his own coach now or does he still go with the irregulars?


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 28, 2019)

I don't know a single fan, armchair or not, who approves of VAR. Nor any armchair fan who had the powers of persuasion to get it introduced.

As a kid I was footie mad and played every minute I could. Dad couldn't afford a leather football so got me the cheap plastic ones from the garage. The times I had to punch Freddie or Peter from next door for kicking it into the rose bush and busting it! Living in rural Northamptonshire the options to watch quality footie were somewhat limited. I watched the local semi-professional side Wellingborough Town every home game and also Northampton Town when I could. I also watched Irthlingborough Diamonds who became Rushden & Diamonds...saw that dream born and die again. For as long as I can remember my side were City - think originally I liked the colour as Sky Blue is my favourite. I wanted to support a team I saw on MotD and one I could listen to on the radio and hear their results without having to buy the local pink paper. I have loved City through thick and thin - mainly thin. Every Saturday at exactly 3pm I'd say "Come on City" as if I was there wishing them well at the referee's whistle. I have shed more tears than I care to remember. My Dad took me to my first City match at West Brom - we lost 5-0. I'd try and see them a few times a season and got tickets for the Full Members Cup at Wembley...we lost of course.

I could go on but I'll always be seen around here as an armchair fan who brought ruin to the game by demanding a system like VAR to make my armchair viewing more palatable


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 28, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Fair enough.
But if they just want money they can leave .
Didn’t quite work for Coutino.
		
Click to expand...

I'm saying it with disdain, not because I'm wishing it. Overseas players in particular have no genuine affinity for English clubs, money talks, biggest cheque book wins.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

davemc1 said:



			Yeah I seen that, also heard mono ordered you's back whilst in Barbados 😂

does Tage have his own coach now or does he still go with the irregulars?
		
Click to expand...

Yeah Roy just mumbled to the lads in front and big KevO was fuming. We'd just got past burton aswell.....its only 15 minutes away was the shout.....more like an hour 15 😂 think it was Tage's, got his fingers in every pie now...


----------



## Fish (Dec 28, 2019)

West Ham United can confirm that Manuel Pellegrini has left the Club with immediate effect.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 28, 2019)

Fish said:



			West Ham United can confirm that Manuel Pellegrini has left the Club with immediate effect.
		
Click to expand...

Not surprised. They have been in free fall for a while.


----------



## fundy (Dec 28, 2019)

Fish said:



			West Ham United can confirm that Manuel Pellegrini has left the Club with immediate effect.
		
Click to expand...

Frank or Roy next in the great London sack race?


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

AmandaJR said:



			I don't know a single fan, armchair or not, who approves of VAR. Nor any armchair fan who had the powers of persuasion to get it introduced.

As a kid I was footie mad and played every minute I could. Dad couldn't afford a leather football so got me the cheap plastic ones from the garage. The times I had to punch Freddie or Peter from next door for kicking it into the rose bush and busting it! Living in rural Northamptonshire the options to watch quality footie were somewhat limited. I watched the local semi-professional side Wellingborough Town every home game and also Northampton Town when I could. I also watched Irthlingborough Diamonds who became Rushden & Diamonds...saw that dream born and die again. For as long as I can remember my side were City - think originally I liked the colour as Sky Blue is my favourite. I wanted to support a team I saw on MotD and one I could listen to on the radio and hear their results without having to buy the local pink paper. I have loved City through thick and thin - mainly thin. Every Saturday at exactly 3pm I'd say "Come on City" as if I was there wishing them well at the referee's whistle. I have shed more tears than I care to remember. My Dad took me to my first City match at West Brom - we lost 5-0. I'd try and see them a few times a season and got tickets for the Full Members Cup at Wembley...we lost of course.

I could go on but I'll always be seen around here as an armchair fan who brought ruin to the game by demanding a system like VAR to make my armchair viewing more palatable 

Click to expand...

Wow, nothing better than a proper over reaction rant.


----------



## Fish (Dec 28, 2019)

fundy said:



			Frank or Roy next in the great London sack race?
		
Click to expand...

😂😂🎣


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Well al tell you this for nowt, when your playing in empty stadiums coz the match day experience is crap. Tell me it’s crap then.
		
Click to expand...

People won’t stop going to a game because of VAR - teams aren’t suddenly going to have an empty stadium because the people in the stadium haven’t been told what they are checking 




			Your answer is part of the problem, Stu you can shove your enjoyable experience at £52 a ticket coz your club got £200 million. Guess what, me and Stu were going 30 years ago before Salah and KDB were even born.
		
Click to expand...

What does when you and Stu being born have to do with anything ? The game become more than just a match going fan decades ago and all the clubs get the benefit of that 




			Before tv killed the game for match going fans.
		
Click to expand...

Since when did Tv kill the game for someone who goes to the match ? And that “tv” is the reason why City have been successful over the last 8 years or so 




			And we will be supporting them in 30 years time? There’s  been comments about people looking down there noses at armchair fans. Me personally I think it’s worse saying match going fans can shove it coz TV paying armchair fans pay more.
		
Click to expand...

There will be thousands of “armchair” fans who have supported the teams for 30 years and will support them for another 30 years and I don’t recall one person saying match going fans can shove it and also don’t believe anyone has said an armchair fan pays more ?! 

But armchair fans contribute plenty to their respective clubs - football and mainly the premier is worldwide now and the growth of the premier league has allowed the top players to play for the Prem clubs , it’s the reason why Oil billionaires have bought and ploughed money into those clubs to buy the best players and allow the clubs to win the trophies - you get to cheer your team to win titles with the help of telly money and armchair fans. Clubs are more than just the 50k that turn up to watch the team. There are thousands and thousands of fans of the top clubs all around the world that would love to watch their team every single week from the stands but they can’t - and it’s such a shame that people that are lucky to be able to watch from the stands turn their nose up and look down on others. A fanbase is more than just the core that can go to a game.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Wow, nothing better than a proper over reaction rant.
		
Click to expand...

Oh my word you are so far from the mark...carry on.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 28, 2019)

I’m with Tash on this Var is ruining the game and I feel for the match going fan.
I’ve been there and when your team scores the stands erupt the buzz is addictive,you can hug and cuddle someone you’ve never met.
Now you will still do that but with trepidation,going from a massive high to a massive low in a minute or two.
Yes if it carries on stadiums will not be full.
I’m an armchair supporter now but will watch far less games than ever before.
I will also sit in my chair as opposed to jumping around until var has concluded and by that time the buzz has gone.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Wow, nothing better than a proper over reaction rant.
		
Click to expand...

It’s not though - you have pointed the finger of blame in regards VAR at “armchair fans” as it’s they are the ones that have demanded VAR is brought in and used in this way

Far from it because I don’t see or read any armchair fan demanding VAR was brought in - in fact I have had a chat with Pete on here about it stating I don’t think it should be brought in because it won’t work - and so far it’s showing to be exactly that -, it’s shocking and it’s worst than what I believed it would be , more than happy to see it removed totally and stick to goal line stuff - but you have a clear narrative and a clear distain towards people who just watch at home on the telly.

If you want to blame someone blame the Prem League and FA and UEFA and FIFA and the players and managers - they are the reason VAR was brought in - not the person sat watching Sky


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2019)

Fish said:



			West Ham United can confirm that Manuel Pellegrini has left the Club with immediate effect.
		
Click to expand...

It's been coming he doesn't seem to inspire the players 

Not all his fault ofc

However rumours of Moyes being lined up .. should have kept him tbh he kept us up and then we went for the fancy manager and didn't renew his deal. He deserved a contract for doing what he was employed to do

Also made Arnie a decent striker 

Will see what hAppens .. needs backing in the window


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Apparently it was given offside as he judged to have come from an offside position but when the ball is played he’s onside........
		
Click to expand...

It doesnt matter, if you make a run from an offside position and receive the ball directly, even if in an onside position, they normally flag (although not always).


----------



## Fish (Dec 28, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			It's been coming he doesn't seem to inspire the players

Not all his fault ofc

However rumours of Moyes being lined up .. should have kept him tbh he kept us up and then we went for the fancy manager and didn't renew his deal. He deserved a contract for doing what he was employed to do

Also made Arnie a decent striker

Will see what hAppens .. needs backing in the window
		
Click to expand...

Moyes expected to be announced within 24hrs, so he’s been spoken to and primed, and with a Leicester team resting 9 players and still winning, well enough was enough.


----------



## Slime (Dec 28, 2019)

Oh Marcus Rashford,


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 28, 2019)

Fish said:



			Moyes expected to be announced within 24hrs, so he’s been spoken to and primed, and with a Leicester team resting 9 players and still winning, well enough was enough.
		
Click to expand...

Baffling subs have cost him

1-1 bring off Haller for Antonio 

Should ha e been lanzini with Antonio playing off Haller 

Then takes lanzini off for ajeti to go two up top with a player who hasnt scored yet


----------



## Slime (Dec 28, 2019)

I have a great deal of respect for most of your opinions, Stu, but you definitely look down on people who don't go to matches and/or don't support the team from the town they were born in.
It's not necessary and doesn't reflect well on yourself.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 28, 2019)

Slime said:



			Oh Marcus Rashford,

View attachment 28823

Click to expand...

How on earth did he fluke that one?
He seems to fluff so many one on ones and then score all the harder ones!


----------



## pendodave (Dec 28, 2019)

One significant way TV has ruined the game for the match going fan : Crazy kick off times make watching football live a painful experience.
On a more meta level, because of TV money, owners and the EPL give literally zero s****s about the match going fan. There is plenty that could be done to improve their lot if people cared. It's 45 years since I went to my first live match, and it was a lot more fun then than it is now. What sort of industry would be happy that its 'customers' feel that way?


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Wow, nothing better than a proper over reaction rant.
		
Click to expand...

But that’s what a being a City fan is, 40 years of purgatory and still finding it unbelievable what’s happening today. Yet letting it all out. Could of written it me self.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 28, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			But that’s what a being a City fan is, 40 years of purgatory and still finding it unbelievable what’s happening today. Yet letting it all out. Could of written it me self.
		
Click to expand...

Are you comfortable on that fence?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2019)

pendodave said:



			One significant way TV has ruined the game for the match going fan : Crazy kick off times make watching football live a painful experience.
On a more meta level, because of TV money, owners and the EPL give literally zero s****s about the match going fan. There is plenty that could be done to improve their lot if people cared. It's 45 years since I went to my first live match, and it was a lot more fun then than it is now. What sort of industry would be happy that its 'customers' feel that way?
		
Click to expand...

The problem is the industry has grown way beyond just the customers in the ground - they are now unfortunately the minority in the fanbase - the people who watch on telly all over the world now go into the billions and it’s that money which attracts the players and managers etc into the club - yep the change of the kicks off to suit the telly schedule is poor for the guys who travel home and away - but the Prem League wrongly will always look at where the big money comes in - telly contracts. That’s the “customers” the industry looks after. 

The money from the contracts has given the club a lot of good things but it’s also changed the sport a lot - and not all good.


----------



## pendodave (Dec 28, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			But that’s what a being a City fan is, 40 years of purgatory and still finding it unbelievable what’s happening today. Yet letting it all out. Could of written it me self.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe it's an age thing? Not because we are shouting at clouds (though maybe we are), but because if you are of a certain age there was more regional identity and pride than there is now. 
Sense of place means so little today. I visited some junior relatives over Christmas. They live in Hove, so are fortunate enough to be within range of a prem club, but one supports city, the other, Spurs. Crazy and a little sad.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 28, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Yet but who is looking down there nose, my grief is not with armchair fans, there a long way down a list of my grief with football at the moment. Am fortunate I go and sit on me settee. Hence see both sides.
		
Click to expand...

YEs  me to.
VAR was to stop big clubs getting decisions against smaller clubs.
It’s was those managers who were complaining most.
It’s just being mismanaged.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 28, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			👍

Exactly that - not sure how anything to do with VAR can be blamed on “armchair” fans

And people watching on telly also at times haven’t got a clue what’s going on with it
		
Click to expand...

Armchair alliance!!!!

They'll be swapping chocolate and Rum across no Man's land, next.

You're in trouble, Stu.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s not though - you have pointed the finger of blame in regards VAR at “armchair fans” as it’s they are the ones that have demanded VAR is brought in and used in this way

Far from it because I don’t see or read any armchair fan demanding VAR was brought in - in fact I have had a chat with Pete on here about it stating I don’t think it should be brought in because it won’t work - and so far it’s showing to be exactly that -, it’s shocking and it’s worst than what I believed it would be , more than happy to see it removed totally and stick to goal line stuff - but you have a clear narrative and a clear distain towards people who just watch at home on the telly.

If you want to blame someone blame the Prem League and FA and UEFA and FIFA and the players and managers - they are the reason VAR was brought in - not the person sat watching Sky
		
Click to expand...

It is. I’ve stated many times that the media, Sky in particular , have set the agenda and the fans peddle the idea  the need for VAR in the game. 

The armchair fan comment isn’t aimed at anyone on here, it’s a general comment. I’m sorry if you don’t agree with my opinion or if it  offends you Phil but to suggest I have a clear disdain towards people who don’t go the game is absurd. 

I totally understand there’s many reasons why people don’t go to football matches, being priced out is a massive one.    I have been on many demonstrations against ticket prices, price caps, and even walked out on my own team after 77 minutes in protest to massive price hikes in ticket prices, that wouldn’t have affected my Seson Ticket price, in solidarity with my own. 

Where was you that day?

So you carry on being holier than thou.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I've ordered  10 gallon of bleach, I've agreed with a scabby, tory miner 😉
		
Click to expand...

Ex miner the Tory’s closed them.


----------



## fundy (Dec 28, 2019)

Utterly priceless, the betting market for the next West Ham manager on Betfair, and theyve included Danny Dyer as an option


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

Slime said:



			I have a great deal of respect for most of your opinions, Stu, but you definitely look down on people who don't go to matches and/or don't support the team from the town they were born in.
It's not necessary and doesn't reflect well on yourself.
		
Click to expand...

Disagree with part of that slime. 

I don’t look down on people who don’t go to matches at all and if my posts come across like that then that’s something I’ll look to sort out. 

I have an opinion that you should support your local team 1st and foremost. What’s wrong with that? I know many lads from all over the country who support Liverpool, but not only that they support the local communities, the city and respect its culture.  There’s more to a city than just a successful football team.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Disagree with part of that slime.

I don’t look down on people who don’t go to matches at all and if my posts come across like that then that’s something I’ll look to sort out.

I have an opinion that you should support your local team 1st and foremost. What’s wrong with that? I know many lads from all over the country who support Liverpool, but not only that they support the local communities, the city and respect its culture.  *There’s more to a city than just a successful football team.*

Click to expand...

You just can’t help yourself, first armchair supporters, then none locals and now Everton!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			It is. I’ve stated many times that the media, Sky in particular , have set the agenda and *the fans peddle the idea  the need for VAR in the game.*

The armchair fan comment isn’t aimed at anyone on here, it’s a general comment. I’m sorry if you don’t agree with my opinion or if it  offends you Phil but to suggest I have a clear disdain towards people who don’t go the game is absurd.

I totally understand there’s many reasons why people don’t go to football matches, being priced out is a massive one.    I have been on many demonstrations against ticket prices, price caps, and even walked out on my own team after 77 minutes in protest to massive price hikes in ticket prices, that wouldn’t have affected my Seson Ticket price, in solidarity with my own.

Where was you that day?

So you carry on being holier than thou.
		
Click to expand...

Not just “armchair fans” though as you have stated though

Remember your first comment “hope the armchair fans are happy with what they got “ with a sneer as if it’s them to blame for what is happening

Is it just armchair fans that sit and watch matches on sky ? What happens when someone who goes to the home games but then screams at the telly on an away match ? Which category shall they be put into ?


Sorry I’m not sure what increasing prices has to do with VAR being shocking ?

I would love nothing more than being able to travel every Saturday to watch the game then travel home - but it’s just not possible anymore and hasn’t been for a long time. I certainly don’t ever want to see people being priced out of watching the game but that all changed just Isner 30 years go when the Prem League was invented and football changed


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			You just can’t help yourself, first armchair supporters, then none locals and now Everton!

Click to expand...

I’ve upset the out armchair fans I thought I’d go the whole hog and upset the neighbours. 😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not just “armchair fans” though as you have stated though

Remember your first comment “hope the armchair fans are happy with what they got “ with a sneer as if it’s them to blame for what is happening

Is it just armchair fans that sit and watch matches on sky ? What happens when someone who goes to the home games but then screams at the telly on an away match ? *Which category shall they be put into* ?


Sorry I’m not sure what increasing prices has to do with VAR being shocking ?
		
Click to expand...

If you really think I’ve laid the blame totally at the armchair fans  then you’re very much mistaken. Yes, They’ve played their part. As there’s 10m sky subscribers I’d say there in the majority 👍🏻

*Match goers.*

Re Increasing prices, your accusation how I have a clear disdain towards people who don’t go to matches. 

Where was you that day?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 28, 2019)

fundy said:



			Utterly priceless, the betting market for the next West Ham manager on Betfair, and theyve included Danny Dyer as an option 

Click to expand...

My money is on Bianca from footy focus.

Tony Cottee has peddled the "XX knows the club inside out, so give him the job" bollocks, how do these pundits earn a living.

So XX has seen the 'ammers win sod all for nearly 40 years, been a yo-yo club, hardly ever (if ever) even been in the Europa league, moved ground with hardly any improvement, but he knows the club inside out,so give him the job. Sheesh.


----------



## fundy (Dec 28, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			My money is on Bianca from footy focus.

Tony Cottee has peddled the "XX knows the club inside out, so give him the job" bollocks, how do these pundits earn a living.

So XX has seen the 'ammers win sod all for nearly 40 years, been a yo-yo club, hardly ever (if ever) even been in the Europa league, moved ground with hardly any improvement, but he knows the club inside out,so give him the job. Sheesh.
		
Click to expand...


turns out theyve already been talking to Moyes for part deux


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			If you really think I’ve laid the blame totally at the armchair fans  then you’re very much mistaken. Yes, They’ve played their part. As there’s 10m sky subscribers I’d say there in the majority 👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

you keep pointing the finger of blame at them - you keep suggesting it’s them that called for VAR to be introduced ? 

All fans have played their part , so have players , managers , owners , FIFA , UEFA , Prem League , FA - but your statements were just aimed at “armchair fans “.




*Match goers.*

Re Increasing prices, your accusation how I have a clear disdain towards people who don’t go to matches.

*Where was you that day?*

Click to expand...

At work on a very quiet day shift I believe


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 28, 2019)

fundy said:



			turns out theyve already been talking to Moyes for part deux 

Click to expand...

About time West Ham had a tactical genius.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I have an opinion that you should support your local team 1st and foremost. What’s wrong with that?
		
Click to expand...

There are many reasons people don't support their local team. My local team is now Norwich but I'm not going to support them just because I now live closer to them than the mighty Col U. 

Although in general I do agree with you as older Colch jnr has decided that he is no longer a Colchester fan, because according to him "we're rubbish", and he now wants to support Man Utd. Unfortunately Mrs Colch has said that as he's only 10 I'm not allowed to kick him out of the house.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			There are many reasons people don't support their local team. My local team is now Norwich but I'm not going to support them just because I now live closer to them than the mighty Col U.

Although in general I do agree with you as older Colch jnr has decided that he is no longer a Colchester fan, because according to him "we're rubbish", and he now wants to support Man Utd. Unfortunately Mrs Colch has said that as he's only 10 I'm not allowed to kick him out of the house.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, I meant where you’re born/raised

Obviously people grow up and jobs sometimes dictates where you live etc.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 28, 2019)

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...iverpool-big-television-change-under-17483419 

I'm gonna buy some shares in DFS.


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Sorry, I meant where you’re born/raised

Obviously people grow up and jobs sometimes dictates where you live etc.
		
Click to expand...

All while Liverpool, utd, spurs etc are busy pimping themselves out in every corner of the planet.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			All while Liverpool, utd, spurs etc are busy pimping themselves out in every corner of the planet.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah you’re correct, all part of the big business nowadays unfortunately. Though I need to count myself Lucky because without them we’d have a team of no marks 🤷‍♂️


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Sorry, I meant where you’re born/raised

Obviously people grow up and jobs sometimes dictates where you live etc.
		
Click to expand...

Again not 100% true as both my boys have been born and raised within 20 miles of Norwich but, despite the older one wanting to support Man Utd and the younger one having no interest in football, they will both be Col U fans. 

But all joking aside, I can accept someone supporting a club that isn't local if there is a genuine family link to that club (for instance, my dad was born in Manchester and supports Man U so it wouldn't be outrageous for me to support them) but the glory hunting trophy whores that pick a club they have no connection to deserve all the abuse they get.


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah you’re correct, all part of the big business nowadays unfortunately. Though I need to count myself Lucky because without them we’d have a team of no marks 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

How else would you have been  able to pay for el haji diouf 😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Again not 100% true as both my boys have been born and raised within 20 miles of Norwich but, despite the older one wanting to support Man Utd and the younger one having no interest in football, they will both be Col U fans.

But all joking aside, I can accept someone supporting a club that isn't local if there is a genuine family link to that club (*for instance, my dad was born in Manchester and supports Man U so it wouldn't be outrageous for me to support them*) but the glory hunting trophy whores that pick a club they have no connection to deserve all the abuse they get.
		
Click to expand...

Again I can’t disagree with that, not sure grandads and  great grandads rule applies. 

Like I said earlier, there’s more to a town/city than a successful football club.

My mate left Liverpool and headed to London early 80’s and has lived down in Wembley ever since, his 3 lads all support Spurs, he wouldn’t let them support Liverpool.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 28, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			How else would you have been  able to pay for el haji diouf 😂
		
Click to expand...

Park vouchers?


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 28, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Again I can’t disagree with that, not sure grandads and  great grandads rule applies.

Like I said earlier, there’s more to a town/city than a successful football club.

*My mate left Liverpool and headed to London early 80’s and has lived down in Wembley ever since, his 3 lads all support Spurs, he wouldn’t let them support Liverpoo*l.
		
Click to expand...

My daughters won't be supporting Dover or Gillingham!!

I think as long as there is a genuine allegiance, i see no issue with it.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 29, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Again not 100% true as both my boys have been born and raised within 20 miles of Norwich but, despite the older one wanting to support Man Utd and the younger one having no interest in football, they will both be Col U fans.

But all joking aside, I can accept someone supporting a club that isn't local if there is a genuine family link to that club (for instance, my dad was born in Manchester and supports Man U so it wouldn't be outrageous for me to support them) but the glory hunting trophy whores that pick a club they have no connection to deserve all the abuse they get.
		
Click to expand...

As a Forces brat I moved around all over the UK and also the world - I then joined myself and moved all other so had no town I would call local , my current place is the longest I have ever stayed in one place ( 10 years now ) . My dad was also a forces brat and moved around and he ended up supporting where his parents finally settled - I ended up supporting a team because of my mums side. 

My mate who I have known for years started supporting Liverpool in the early 80’s because they were popular and he liked Rush - he had no connection , his family were Villa fans - but he went with Liverpool - 30 odd years later he still supports them , We have been to loads of matches over the years - he now lives in Australia but still flies back once or twice a year just to go to a game. It shouldn’t matter why someone starts supporting a team but what should matter Is if they stick with it regardless of what the team goes - but there have been many people over the years who have flipped to teams because they are successful - people who started supporting Man Utd in the 90’s for example them flipped to Chelsea in the 00’s . My brothers two lads support Chelsea - they grew up when they were doing well and their favourite player was playing for them so they will now stick with Chelsea. Stu will always look down on people like me because we aren’t local - he isn’t the first or will be the last and all clubs have them - I have nothing but respect for the local fans who go week in week out - they are the lifeblood of the club , they are what makes it special - but I don’t believe an armchair fan who can’t go week in week out and wasn’t born 5 yards from the ground should be looked down upon. In the modern football world a club can no longer survive or be competitive on just the 50k who go to the match and whilst an armchair who contribute to the club in the same way they will still be a part of the club and contribute in other ways


----------



## SteveW86 (Dec 29, 2019)

It would all be nice if everyone supported their local team, but as we know that’s not always the case. I think the more passionate fan will support their local team and would get involved with the club/community whereas the generic fan will support whoever is successful/likeable when they start to follow football.

I’m from Hartlepool originally, but am a Sunderland fan because my dad is and his dad was when he was alive (they both lived in Sunderland, so were the local team for them anyway). I now live in Southampton, but still call myself a Sunderland fan even though I wouldn’t say I “follow” them anymore...maybe that’s because they’re now in league 1 or maybe it’s because I live the best part of 400 miles away. 

I do believe people should follow their local team, unless they have a good reason not to. I do wonder what will happen to all of the kids who grew up in the 90’s and support Man Utd because they were successful....who will they support now?


----------



## Kellfire (Dec 29, 2019)

I’ve never met anyone whose allegiance changed due to success. I think it’s something that football snobs greatly exaggerate.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 29, 2019)

SteveW86 said:



			It would all be nice if everyone supported their local team, but as we know that’s not always the case. I think the more passionate fan will support their local team and would get involved with the club/community whereas the generic fan will support whoever is successful/likeable when they start to follow football.

I’m from Hartlepool originally, but am a Sunderland fan because my dad is and his dad was when he was alive (they both lived in Sunderland, so were the local team for them anyway). I now live in Southampton, but still call myself a Sunderland fan even though I wouldn’t say I “follow” them anymore...maybe that’s because they’re now in league 1 or maybe it’s because I live the best part of 400 miles away.

I do believe people should follow their local team, unless they have a good reason not to. *I do wonder what will happen to all of the kids who grew up in the 90’s and support Man Utd because they were successful.*...who will they support now?
		
Click to expand...

They all live in Ryhope and Seaham and travel to Utd home games while moaning about Man City.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 29, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As a Forces brat I moved around all over the UK and also the world - I then joined myself and moved all other so had no town I would call local , my current place is the longest I have ever stayed in one place ( 10 years now ) . My dad was also a forces brat and moved around and he ended up supporting where his parents finally settled - I ended up supporting a team because of my mums side.

My mate who I have known for years started supporting Liverpool in the early 80’s because they were popular and he liked Rush - he had no connection , his family were Villa fans - but he went with Liverpool - 30 odd years later he still supports them , We have been to loads of matches over the years - he now lives in Australia but still flies back once or twice a year just to go to a game. It shouldn’t matter why someone starts supporting a team but what should matter Is if they stick with it regardless of what the team goes - but there have been many people over the years who have flipped to teams because they are successful - people who started supporting Man Utd in the 90’s for example them flipped to Chelsea in the 00’s . My brothers two lads support Chelsea - they grew up when they were doing well and their favourite player was playing for them so they will now stick with Chelsea. Stu will always look down on people like me because we aren’t local - he isn’t the first or will be the last and all clubs have them - I have nothing but respect for the local fans who go week in week out - they are the lifeblood of the club , they are what makes it special - but I don’t believe an armchair fan who can’t go week in week out and wasn’t born 5 yards from the ground should be looked down upon. In the modern football world a club can no longer survive or be competitive on just the 50k who go to the match and whilst an armchair who contribute to the club in the same way they will still be a part of the club and contribute in other ways
		
Click to expand...

I've never looked down the nose at anyone in my life for any reason and never would, to suggest i do is wrong. 

Just because my opinion differs from yours doesnt mean it's a personal attack.


----------



## Wolf (Dec 29, 2019)

I don't buy into the whole support your local side argument especially in the modern era of moving around etc. By that token I should be a Gillingham fan, couldn't think of a worse team to support as growing up they did nothing for local communities and were more known for the chairmans wife shagging the players and doing time for having a raging  coke habit, for their star player getting arrested & doing time for stealing cars, fans causing the death of a Fulham fan outside the ground and generally were not welcoming to families. Wasn't exactly a place parents wanted to take kids to, the one time I did go with my then BiL i was 11 years old and and sadly got to see Gills fans lay into a father and son that came down from Sheffield to see Gills v Wednesday in an FA Cup tie. Fortunately things have improved in recent years but they're still not a club many locals gravitate towards.

My grandad was an Arsenal fan and thats who I followed with my allegience as do my kids.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 29, 2019)

I've just seen Steve Bruce interviewed on motd  and his opening comments were that Newcastle lost because of referreeing decisions 🤔.  I saw the game in full yesterday and he was delusional as usual. Managers constantly slating refs post match, inaccurately, are a big reason VaR was brought in.

On happier note, get in Carlo  😁👍


----------



## Wolf (Dec 29, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			My daughters won't be supporting *Dover or Gillingham*!!

I think as long as there is a genuine allegiance, i see no issue with it.
		
Click to expand...

I really don't blame you at all, that'd be a lifetime of misery from a football perspective and from having to regularly visit those towns to watch a game...


----------



## Hobbit (Dec 29, 2019)

Support who you want to support. I 'get' why some think it should be a team near where you were born, equally some pick a team at an early age based on success and media exposure... again, why not. There's no law, although a bit of a stigma from some people.

I was born in Middlesbrough, and went to my first Boro game with my dad in the mid 60's. Although we've lived around the world, and back to the NE, I've never not supported the Boro. I had a season ticket for many years and still try to get to the odd game when we're visiting the NE.

My 3 sons were born in Middlesbrough when we lived there in the mid-late 80's. Even though they left before their 5th birthday they're Boro fans. One of them gets to a few homes games and even more away games every season. I'm pleased he gets to the games but I don't think he deserves a medal for it. He just loves football, and supports the Boro.

But why judge anyone for their allegiance? Does it really matter? Surely we should be more interested that they at least support the sport? Without supporters and banter would the sport survive?


----------



## Slime (Dec 29, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Again I can’t disagree with that, not sure grandads and  great grandads rule applies.

Like I said earlier, there’s more to a town/city than a successful football club.

My mate left Liverpool and headed to London early 80’s and has lived down in Wembley ever since, his 3 lads all support Spurs, *he wouldn’t let them support Liverpool.*

Click to expand...

Now that's what I call proper parenting.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 29, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I've never looked down the nose at anyone in my life for any reason and never would, to suggest i do is wrong.

Just because my opinion differs from yours doesnt mean it's a personal attack.
		
Click to expand...

It does feel 100% like you do exactly that in your posts on this thread.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 29, 2019)

On a lighter note. It's my birthday today and top present is a 3d Puzzle of The Etihad


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 29, 2019)

AmandaJR said:



			On a lighter note. It's my birthday today and top present is a 3d Puzzle of The Etihad 

Click to expand...

Happy Birthday and did you get the receipt to exchange your prezzie.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 29, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Happy Birthday and did you get the receipt to exchange your prezzie. 

Click to expand...

I'm putting a picture of the finished article on here! That's assuming I can build it - it says for 7+ years so I should be ok...


----------



## Wolf (Dec 29, 2019)

AmandaJR said:



			I'm putting a picture of the finished article on here! That's assuming I can build it - it says for *7+ years *so I should be ok...
		
Click to expand...

Must be a difficult puzzle if it takes that long to do 😉


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 29, 2019)

AmandaJR said:



			I'm putting a picture of the finished article on here! That's assuming I can build it - it says for 7+ years so I should be ok...
		
Click to expand...

Just throw money at it, ie, the City way.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 29, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Just throw money at it, ie, the City way. 

Click to expand...

Good idea. Wonder who I can buy in the window to complete it for me...


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 29, 2019)

AmandaJR said:



			On a lighter note. It's my birthday today and top present is a 3d Puzzle of The Etihad 

Click to expand...

Happy birthday


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 29, 2019)

AmandaJR said:



			Good idea. Wonder who I can buy in the window to complete it for me...

Click to expand...

Hopefully this will help.

http://www.worldjigsawpuzzle.org/en/championship_en.htm


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 29, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Are you comfortable on that fence?

Click to expand...

Splinters are getting bigger 😁 although the football fence is not as big as the Brexit fence 😳😁


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 29, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Hopefully this will help.

http://www.worldjigsawpuzzle.org/en/championship_en.htm

Click to expand...

Who'd have thought it! On holiday this year ( the wettest week of the summer) I found a 1000 piece puzzle and figured it would while away the day. Cleared the table, tipped the contents out, looked at the task before me...and put it all back in the box!


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 29, 2019)

pendodave said:



			Maybe it's an age thing? Not because we are shouting at clouds (though maybe we are), but because if you are of a certain age there was more regional identity and pride than there is now.
Sense of place means so little today. I visited some junior relatives over Christmas. They live in Hove, so are fortunate enough to be within range of a prem club, but one supports city, the other, Spurs. Crazy and a little sad.
		
Click to expand...

Would deffo agree it’s an age regional thing. When we emigrated to Notts around 1970, there were lads who supported Liverpool, Everton, Newcastle, Sunderland, Utd, etc etc etc. Basically miners had come from all over the country and there kids. They brought there support with them. Chuck in Forest and County and the mighty Stags. Then there was the Scots, Rangers and Celtic. Lordy flipping Lordy.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 29, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I've never looked down the nose at anyone in my life for any reason and never would, to suggest i do is wrong.

Just because my opinion differs from yours doesnt mean it's a personal attack.
		
Click to expand...

That’s not how it comes across though  -  been lots of comments about armchair fans  etc it reads like they are the evil in the game especially in regards VAR

I respect what the club means to you and your investment into the club is something many fans can only dream off but clubs aren’t “local” clubs anymore


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 29, 2019)

AmandaJR said:



			On a lighter note. It's my birthday today and top present is a 3d Puzzle of The Etihad 

Click to expand...

Happy birthday Blue, 😘😁


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 29, 2019)

AmandaJR said:



			On a lighter note. It's my birthday today and top present is a 3d Puzzle of The Etihad 

Click to expand...

Don’t Wellingborough town do a 3D  puzzle.?
Happy Birthday.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 29, 2019)

It’s not the armchair supporters that bother me, it’s the telly clappers who have never been to any ground, not even a non-league local ground, yet look down on others opinions as they’ve watched a game on telly or read a history book.
Yet they have a tattoo of the Club badge and always got the latest shirt etc.
Probably never played the game at any level and was picked last at school.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 29, 2019)

AmandaJR said:



			It does feel 100% like you do exactly that in your posts on this thread.
		
Click to expand...

Its not intentional but I'll bare that in mind in future.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 29, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That’s not how it comes across though  -  been lots of comments about armchair fans  etc it reads like they are the evil in the game especially in regards VAR

I respect what the club means to you and your investment into the club is something many fans can only dream off but clubs aren’t “local” clubs anymore
		
Click to expand...

Another massive over reaction , I cant control how you interpret my post Phil. 

But just to be crystal clear I've never called or suggested Armchair fans as evil in any guise. 

Enjoy the 2 games today, make sure your remote has brand new batteries in I wouldnt like you to miss any action or will you be watching them on Twitter?? 😉


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 29, 2019)

Slime said:



			I have a great deal of respect for most of your opinions, Stu, but you definitely look down on people who don't go to matches and/or don't support the team from the town they were born in.
It's not necessary and doesn't reflect well on yourself.
		
Click to expand...

And scabby tories living miners😁


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 29, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			And scabby tories living miners😁
		
Click to expand...

Nobody likes them Tash


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 29, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Its not intentional but I'll bare that in mind in future.
		
Click to expand...

Sometimes what we are thinking dosnt come across in the written word.
I have done it myself.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 29, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sometimes what we are thinking dosnt come across in the written word.
I have done it myself.
		
Click to expand...

Lord forbid those who write rabbling rammel on here. 😁


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 29, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Lord forbid those who write rabbling rammel on here. 😁
		
Click to expand...

The Lord forgives everyone Tash.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 29, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			The Lord forgives everyone Tash.
		
Click to expand...

Indeed I do CC, indeed I do. 😁


----------



## paddyc (Dec 29, 2019)

Rangers just gone 2-1 up on Celtic if anyone interested??!!


----------



## fundy (Dec 29, 2019)

about as good a 20 mins weve had in a long while  , and now another defender injured


----------



## Dando (Dec 29, 2019)

paddyc said:



			Rangers just gone 2-1 up on Celtic if anyone interested??!!
		
Click to expand...

Thought this thread was for proper football 😂


----------



## paddyc (Dec 29, 2019)

Dando said:



			Thought this thread was for proper football 😂
		
Click to expand...




fundy said:



			about as good a 20 mins weve had in a long while  , and now another defender injured 

Click to expand...

Cant argue with that, not getting carried away but work ethic and commitment is way better. Chelsea  dont look at it at all.


----------



## paddyc (Dec 29, 2019)

jobr1850 said:



			Good to see the scum bags Lennon and Brown get beat.
Two vile human beings.
		
Click to expand...

So its safe to say your not too keen on them John!


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 29, 2019)

paddyc said:



			Rangers just gone 2-1 up on Celtic if anyone interested??!!
		
Click to expand...

Is there a player that boils piss more than Morelos 😂😂

Brilliant win thoroughly enjoyed that game. 

All aboard the Klopp express.....Choo Choo


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 29, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Is there a player that boils piss more than Morelos 😂😂

Brilliant win thoroughly enjoyed that game.

All aboard the Klopp express.....Choo Choo
		
Click to expand...

You going to the match La?
😂😂


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 29, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1211300709301456896
Very surprising signing - but great work from Dortmund


----------



## Imurg (Dec 29, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1211300709301456896
Very surprising signing - but great work from Dortmund
		
Click to expand...

BD have signed StuC......well, half of him


----------



## Wolf (Dec 29, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1211300709301456896
Very surprising signing - but great work from Dortmund
		
Click to expand...

Great signing for Dortmund and for the Young lad as well, gives him opportunity to develop and grow at a good team that regularly compete near the top in their own league and play in Europe, before moving potentially to a bigger club with more experience behind him.


----------



## Wolf (Dec 29, 2019)

Leno been our best player this season but what the hell was he doing there


----------



## fundy (Dec 29, 2019)

unreal, better side for 75 mins then combust 

Jorginho shouldnt have been on the pitch mind


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 29, 2019)

I'm feeling sorry for Arteta right now. All that good work undone in 2 mins, nothing he can do.


----------



## Wolf (Dec 29, 2019)

And now caught out by a simple counter attack. Can't blame Arteta we simply don't have a good enough defensive unit


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 29, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Another massive over reaction , I cant control how you interpret my post Phil. 

But just to be crystal clear I've never called or suggested Armchair fans as evil in any guise. 

Enjoy the 2 games today, make sure your remote has brand new batteries in I wouldnt like you to miss any action or will you be watching them on Twitter?? 😉
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## Kellfire (Dec 29, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s not the armchair supporters that bother me, it’s the telly clappers who have never been to any ground, not even a non-league local ground, yet look down on others opinions as they’ve watched a game on telly or read a history book.
Yet they have a tattoo of the Club badge and always got the latest shirt etc.
Probably never played the game at any level and was picked last at school.
		
Click to expand...

So you’re another football snob then?


----------



## GreiginFife (Dec 29, 2019)

AmandaJR said:



			On a lighter note. It's my birthday today and top present is a 3d Puzzle of The Etihad 

Click to expand...

Is that the one that has 43000 pieces printed on the box but only actually has half of that inside? 😉

Happy Birthday!


----------



## Captainron (Dec 29, 2019)

VAR used properly for that goal. Overturned a blatantly incorrect call by the ref.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 29, 2019)

Why did it take so long for the VAR to allow the goal when the first picture clearly showed it wasn’t a handball 

And I can’t believe that’s offside ? Come on this is getting beyond a joke now


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 29, 2019)

I appreciate VAR is ruining the game but the players need to respect the rulings. Both correct decisions


----------



## chrisd (Dec 29, 2019)

VAR is ruining football


----------



## pauljames87 (Dec 29, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why did it take so long for the VAR to allow the goal when the first picture clearly showed it wasn’t a handball 

And I can’t believe that’s offside ? Come on this is getting beyond a joke now
		
Click to expand...

They said took so long because needed to check the ref blew after the ball crossed line. If he had blown before no goal as could interfer with play


----------



## paddyc (Dec 29, 2019)

fundy said:



			unreal, better side for 75 mins then combust 

Jorginho shouldnt have been on the pitch mind
		
Click to expand...

ffs absolutely gutted. saw it coming though. sat back invited pressure allowing  Chelsea  to get balls into dangerous areas. They were there for the taking  Got to be more ruthless.i need a drink.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 29, 2019)

chrisd said:



			VAR is ruining football
		
Click to expand...

Blame the plastic fans,they wanted it 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 29, 2019)

Love VAR, sitting on the edge of me armchair.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 29, 2019)

What a cop out. Inconclusive footage of vvd. I’ll be amazed if they didn’t have an angle to show if he handles it or not. 

On a side note. The more I watch Dave Jones, the more I don’t like Him.


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 29, 2019)

What was anyone expecting? VAR will capture those offsides that a assistant ref will miss. Youre either off or  not,  there can't be  any margin. Sure 2 inches of wolves boot is a tough call,  but it's the correct call.


----------



## TheDiablo (Dec 29, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			What was anyone expecting? VAR will capture those offsides that a assistant ref will miss. Youre either off or  not,  there can't be  any margin. Sure 2 inches of wolves boot is a tough call,  but it's the correct call.
		
Click to expand...

The technology is nowhere near precise enough to know the exact moment the ball left the foot. So when you're talking mm difference there is huge impact in frame by frame. On the close ones they're guessing.


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 29, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			The technology is nowhere near precise enough to know the exact moment the ball left the foot. So when you're talking mm difference there is huge impact in frame by frame. On the close ones they're guessing.
		
Click to expand...

I'd suggest you look up how it works rather than just makes guesses yourself.
Start with at what frame they use for the ball and foot.


----------



## TheDiablo (Dec 29, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			I'd suggest you look up how it works rather than just makes guesses yourself.
Start with at what frame they use for the ball and foot.
		
Click to expand...

So it's perfect and there is no margin of error?


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 29, 2019)

Bloody hell Wolves, how many chances do you need to score 🙈


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 29, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			The technology is nowhere near precise enough to know the exact moment the ball left the foot. So when you're talking mm difference there is huge impact in frame by frame. On the close ones they're guessing.
		
Click to expand...

I'd agree with that, with the addition that it's taking 3 minutes to arrive at the decision as well which is far too long. If the referee looking at a screen still couldn't separate the players then they're level and that should be onside, in my opinion. If the forward's ear is a mm beyond the defender's toe he is not gaining any advantage and we do not need to waste 3 minutes of our lives trying to rule it to that ridiculous degree.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 29, 2019)

Well if it wasn’t for VAR Wolves would of won 1-0 because of 2 human errors.

VAR isn’t perfect, but the technology is the same for everyone, same margin of errors, same fps, nobody moans about it when it goes in their favour.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 29, 2019)

Well Wolves certainly deserved a point from that and that Offside goal is far too marginal to call and it just doesn’t seem right , the first one was how VAR should be used to correct an obvious error but the offside- nah it’s just not right and just like the Pukki goal imo shouldn’t be disallowed.

On the last two performances you can see Wolves well in for a CL spot


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 29, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I'd agree with that, with the addition that it's taking 3 minutes to arrive at the decision as well which is far too long. If the referee looking at a screen still couldn't separate the players then they're level and that should be onside, in my opinion. If the forward's ear is a mm beyond the defender's toe he is not gaining any advantage and we do not need to waste 3 minutes of our lives trying to rule it to that ridiculous degree.
		
Click to expand...

You play competitive 11 a side as well don't you?
When you're up against the last defender you're not thinking "are my toes onside" "is my armpit onside" you go with the general line of your torso or head. It's crackers at the minute, it should be a fixed position on the body which is offside not any goal scoring part. As for margins of error, is what we see on TV the same as what they see in the VAR studio? The lines they use look really thick and its total guesswork (from what I can see) as to where they place the lines.
And I was all for VAR before the season started.


----------



## TheDiablo (Dec 29, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Well if it wasn’t for VAR Wolves would of won 1-0 because of 2 human errors.

VAR isn’t perfect, but the technology is the same for everyone, same margin of errors, same fps, nobody moans about it when it goes in their favour.
		
Click to expand...

It was the same for everyone before VAR?

If the technology can't guarantee a correct decision then why do we use it?

'Minimum interference, maximum benefit' was their laughable promise.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 29, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			It was the same for everyone before VAR?

If the technology can't guarantee a correct decision then why do we use it?

'Minimum interference, maximum benefit' was their laughable promise.
		
Click to expand...

You can only go with the technology available, it’s not the fault of the technology if there is no margin for error, the fault lies with the PL and the FA.
When VAR is used and it shows an attacker is onside by the narrowest of margins nobody complains, show they are offside by the same amount and people moan.

VAR itself is not the issue, it’s the people using it.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 29, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			So it's perfect and there is no margin of error?
		
Click to expand...

In cricket they have umpires call where the decision is so close that they allow for a bit of wriggle room. The offside by 1cm should really come under that territory. I don't believe the tech can be as precise, the lines as sharp, as they are currently working to.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 29, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			In cricket they have umpires call where the decision is so close that they allow for a bit of wriggle room. The offside by 1cm should really come under that territory. I don't believe the tech can be as precise, the lines as sharp, as they are currently working to.
		
Click to expand...

And in Cricket they still get it wrong, see the Aus v NZ test this weekend.


----------



## Captainron (Dec 29, 2019)

These armchair fans are up in arms again......


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 29, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			And in Cricket they still get it wrong, see the Aus v NZ test this weekend.
		
Click to expand...

That one passed me by 😁. I don't expect perfection, there will still be judgement calls on decisions, but the Norwich game the other day was embarrassing and Wolves have had 2 bad ones in 2 games.


----------



## Dando (Dec 29, 2019)

Captainron said:



			These armchair fans are up in arms again......
		
Click to expand...

not me as I sit on a sofa 😂


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 29, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			So it's perfect and there is no margin of error?
		
Click to expand...

Youre ranting about a system you don't understand. 
I'm happy with it for offsides, are you suggesting we allow people to be just a little bit offside?


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 29, 2019)

For me the offside should be a single look in slo mo without the line drawing. Benefit of doubt to the attacker. I'm sure we'd all have given Norwich and Wolves as on side and good goals. We'd have all been happy the right decision had been made and the technology worked?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 29, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That one passed me by 😁. I don't expect perfection, there will still be judgement calls on decisions, but the Norwich game the other day was embarrassing and Wolves have had 2 bad ones in 2 games.
		
Click to expand...

That’s because it’s only the wrong that are highlighted.

It’s absolute ar5e, but the issue is with the rules and the way VAR has been implemented.


----------



## TheDiablo (Dec 29, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			You can only go with the technology available, it’s not the fault of the technology if there is no margin for error, the fault lies with the PL and the FA.
When VAR is used and it shows an attacker is onside by the narrowest of margins nobody complains, show they are offside by the same amount and people moan.

VAR itself is not the issue, it’s the people using it.
		
Click to expand...

Why do you have to go with the technology available?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 29, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			Why do you have to go with the technology available?
		
Click to expand...

The guys in Stockley Park can only use the equipment in front of them they’ve been trained on. I’d hope as the technology improves and becomes available it will be brought in.

VAR isn’t going away, what are you suggesting?


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Dec 29, 2019)

I thought Souness was talking sensibly about VAR. He said that football was about entertainment and on that basis he believed that the rule needed to be changed so that if any part of the player was onside, then he was onside.
Seems reasonable to me. Gives benefit to the attacking side.


----------



## TheDiablo (Dec 29, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Youre ranting about a system you don't understand. 
I'm happy with it for offsides, are you suggesting we allow people to be just a little bit offside?
		
Click to expand...

Nice politicians answer there. Or rather non answer. 

My original post stands, nothing you've offered shows otherwise. I understand it, you don't. 

To answer your question, If you're offside, you're offside - the tech they're using doesn't prove it on marginal calls though as there's a significant margin of error when using a paltry 50 fps. 

My opinion on tech in football has always been goalline tech and gross misconduct only, nothing has changed that opinion this season, merely strengthened it


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 29, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			Nice politicians answer there. Or rather non answer.

My original post stands, nothing you've offered shows otherwise. I understand it, you don't.

To answer your question, If you're offside, you're offside - the tech they're using doesn't prove it on marginal calls though as there's a significant margin of error when using a paltry 50 fps.

My opinion on tech in football has always been goalline tech and gross misconduct only, nothing has changed that opinion this season, merely strengthened it
		
Click to expand...

What non answer? You have stated that fps can't show when the ball left the players foot...
Mate that's  not how it works, when you understand offside and var,  please come back.


----------



## fundy (Dec 29, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			What non answer? You have stated that fps can't show when the ball left the players foot...
Mate that's  not how it works, when you understand offside and var,  please come back.
		
Click to expand...

why dont you explain it to us all as you clearly know more than us?


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 29, 2019)

I know VAR isn't perfect, but is it only there because of the abuse the officials got before it's implementation?
Previously fans/managers/players complained how crap the officials were constantly and how wrong they were etc.....now it's VAR. Wheres the respect for the offcial, whether theyre right or wrong?
Rugby manages to maintain respect, why cant footy?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 29, 2019)

Anyway onto the actual game 

Impressed with Coady at the back for Wolves , he was superb - as was Gomez for us - not sure why Coady hasn’t been given a call up yet

Wolves have a lot of talented players but they are also physically strong team and can see it was a very good battle. Happily have Traore or Raul at Liverpool


----------



## TheDiablo (Dec 29, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			What non answer? You have stated that fps can't show when the ball left the players foot...
Mate that's  not how it works, when you understand offside and var,  please come back.
		
Click to expand...

OK, well 50 fps can't show when it touches the foot. Same thing.

You might understand offside to the letter (pat on back and gold star) but you don't understand VAR and the limitations of tech for use to judge offside. 

The direct question was the one you dodged. You know, ends in punctuation '?'


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 29, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



*OK, well 50 fps can't show when it touches the foot. Same thing.*

You might understand offside to the letter (pat on back and gold star) but you don't understand VAR and the limitations of tech for use to judge offside.

The direct question was the one you dodged. You know, ends in punctuation '?'
		
Click to expand...

No they are not even close to being the same thing.
Is it perfect? No I don't suppose it is, but it's way better than anything an assistant ref can manage.
What is it you don't  like about it? The chance the offside is wrong or the fact it's being given at all for the tiniest of margins?


----------



## TheDiablo (Dec 29, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			No they are not even close to being the same thing.
Is it perfect? No I don't suppose it is, but it's way better than anything an assistant ref can manage.
		
Click to expand...

You either choose the first frame the ball is in contact with the foot, or the last one. You've proved its the first, that's fine, but it's literally the same generalpoint.

At 50fps there's a 20cm margin of error. 

VAR is then calling it as literal, black and white, no error margin, when it clearly isn't. Anything at less than 20cm is guessing - and suddenly were back to my very first post. 

If it continues to be used for offside they need to introduce the equivalent of umpires call to acknowledge the current limitations of the technology.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 29, 2019)

I’ll say from the offset that I always believed that VAR couldn’t work in football and right now it’s shocking

One of the things that is good in regards rugby , cricket and even hockey is people can hear what is going on - they can hear the discussions between the ref and the VAR ref - that allows any confusions to be cleared up

This is how they do it for football in Aus


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1211373914791796736
takes under a minute , you can hear why VAR is being used and you can hear why they changed to a red - simple , clean and quick

With offsides - need to have a tolerance and have a “ref call” - also remove the lines


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 29, 2019)

Think Arteta has realised what a big job he has. I thought Arsenal were looking lethargic again in the last twenty minutes and perhaps even thinking the game was run. Really can't see them getting any form of European football next season.


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 29, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			You either choose the first frame the ball is in contact with the foot, or the last one. You've proved its the first, that's fine, but it's literally the same generalpoint.

At 50fps there's a 20cm margin of error.

VAR is then calling it as literal, black and white, no error margin, when it clearly isn't. Anything at less than 20cm is guessing - and suddenly were back to my very first post.

If it continues to be used for offside they need to introduce the equivalent of umpires call to acknowledge the current limitations of the technology.
		
Click to expand...

The problem is the focus on just the very tight calls and overlooking the improvements.
Assistants are told to keep the flag down if it's tight in the knowledge that VAR will be there if needed. 
Think how many attacks were stopped in the old days due to an offside call that never was. Now they are encouraged to go on. 
No doubt it can be improved but it is a million times better than a assistant can be in real time.


----------



## fundy (Dec 29, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Think Arteta has realised what a big job he has. I thought Arsenal were looking lethargic again in the last twenty minutes and perhaps even thinking the game was run. Really can't see them getting any form of European football next season.
		
Click to expand...


You think he realised today? What did he learn today that wasnt blatantly obvious before? Think the one with the realisation today might have been Lampard!

We were way better today, so much better than we have been, better structure, better formation, better Ozil, Torreira was brilliant, Aubam chased every ball back, we just didnt last the 90 out with yet another defensive injury, a joke referee decision not to send Jorginho off, a couple of individual errors and a general lack of confidence.

We have a defense that consists of an 18 year old winger at left back, a 21 year old midfielder at right back, Sideshow Bob and Mustafi in from the cold after 20 mins and you think they thought the game was done at 1-0 against a top 4 side? Was the complete opposite, nervous and lacking in confidence in a game they couldve long since put away!

Europes long been gone, staying up and planning for next year is all we have to play for and have had for a while, hopefully we can strengthen with a defender or two and a midfielder in January and build for next season


----------



## Bazzatron (Dec 29, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Anyway onto the actual game

Impressed with Coady at the back for Wolves , he was superb - as was Gomez for us - not sure why Coady hasn’t been given a call up yet

Wolves have a lot of talented players but they are also physically strong team and can see it was a very good battle. Happily have Traore or Raul at Liverpool
		
Click to expand...

Coady would get destroyed in a back 2, needs to play in the middle of a three and cant see the system changing.


----------



## Bazzatron (Dec 29, 2019)

Not talking about VAR. 

Thought considering the changes we made today we gave an excellent account of ourselves. Kilman and Bennett have hardly played all season and slotted in nicely. Vinagre is going to be a special player too. 

Onto Watford.


----------



## fundy (Dec 29, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			The problem is the focus on just the very tight calls and overlooking the improvements.
Assistants are told to keep the flag down if it's tight in the knowledge that VAR will be there if needed. 
Think how many attacks were stopped in the old days due to an offside call that never was. Now they are encouraged to go on. 
No doubt it can be improved but it is a million times better than a assistant can be in real time.
		
Click to expand...

So youre still not going to explain to those less educated amongst us why we are wrong and youre right?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 29, 2019)

Bazzatron said:



			Coady would get destroyed in a back 2, needs to play in the middle of a three and cant see the system changing.
		
Click to expand...

England have at times played with a three - he was impressive today

Will also add your manager has a touch of glass about him 

Just seen the first City goal - that appears to be shocking from the ref to not stop play


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 29, 2019)

Thoughts? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50935795 

Surely there has to be a degree of pride from the club and players and see the game out


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 29, 2019)

So West Ham have gone back to Moyes - I can see them getting relegated


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Dec 29, 2019)

If I have to delete any more posts I’m going to start giving points out.


----------



## Fade and Die (Dec 29, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So West Ham have gone back to Moyes - I can see them getting relegated
		
Click to expand...

You might be right nimrod....
I don’t know why but the song “I got you babe” from Sonny and Cher keeps ringing in my head. 😩
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... tants.html


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 29, 2019)

PhilTheFragger said:



			If I have to delete any more posts I’m going to start giving points out.
		
Click to expand...

Can you change your forum name to Arsenal? They've been giving out points all season.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 29, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Can you change your forum name to Arsenal? They've been giving out points all season. 

Click to expand...

I think his back bone might be stronger though....


----------



## Slime (Dec 29, 2019)

PhilTheFragger said:



			If I have to delete any more posts I’m going to start giving points out.
		
Click to expand...

What did I miss?


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 29, 2019)

PhilTheFragger said:



			If I have to delete any more posts I’m going to start giving points out.
		
Click to expand...

Any chance of giving some to City please.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 29, 2019)

Look you can argue all day and night what’s right and wrong with VAR. The bottom line is that in its present format is it is crap. You can argue all day that we know what is and isn’t offside. But If someone said at the start of the season you can be offside by a finger am sure that something would of been said. Here’s a thought let’s have players running like sodden penguins. It is crap. Accidental handball by a forward that led to a goal. VAR disallowed. Accidental handball by a defender play on. The game is dying on its arse. 
Am off coz Ave just come back from a game that armchair fans couldnt watch. 😉  But don’t worry VAR turned up again. 
Me am off coz am surfing the net looking for a comfy chair for next season.


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 29, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Look you can argue all day and night what’s right and wrong with VAR. The bottom line is that in its present format is it is crap. You can argue all day that we know what is and isn’t offside. But If someone said at the start of the season you can be offside by a finger am sure that something would of been said. Here’s a thought let’s have players running like sodden penguins. It is crap. Accidental handball by a forward that led to a goal. VAR disallowed. Accidental handball by a defender play on. The game is dying on its arse.
Am off coz Ave just come back from a game that armchair fans couldnt watch. 😉  But don’t worry VAR turned up again.
Me am off coz am surfing the net looking for a comfy chair for next season.
		
Click to expand...

Your fingers, hands,  arms , can't be offside. So no one would've said that.
What would  be good is if people took the time to understand the offside rule.
How VAR is applied to it.
The steps that are gone through to make it as accurate as possible.
How it hands the advantage to the attacker, which is What I'm told people want .


----------



## Fish (Dec 30, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Your fingers, hands,  arms , can't be offside.
		
Click to expand...

So why was the Wolves goal canceled out 🤔

And more so, like many instances like this, where’s the actual advantage and to whom 🤔


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 30, 2019)

Fish said:



			So why was the Wolves goal canceled out 🤔

And more so, like many instances like this, where’s the actual advantage and to whom 🤔
		
Click to expand...

Not for his hand...
I don't understand the anger , you're either offside or not.
This is just TV being used to implement the existing rule.
VAR isn't a rule.
I'm 100% sure it can be improved, but unless you change the rules then you're going to continue to get these tight decisions.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2019)

Fish said:



			So why was the Wolves goal canceled out 🤔

And more so, like many instances like this, where’s the actual advantage and to whom 🤔
		
Click to expand...

It’s the left foot/toe that is offside

As for the advantage - as with most of the VAR offsides so far there is next to zero advantage. 

By the “letter of the law” he is offside but it just doesn’t seem right


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 30, 2019)

Fish said:



			So why was the Wolves goal canceled out 🤔

And more so, like many instances like this, where’s the actual advantage and to whom 🤔
		
Click to expand...

Probably because the wolves players foot is ahead of the Liverpool defender.

One thing for sure VAR has been consistent with the offside decisions.

On a separate point, why did Taylor blow for the goal, I thought refs were told to let play run then if they score then they’ll look at it for any fouls etc.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 30, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Not for his hand...
I don't understand the anger , you're either offside or not.
This is just TV being used to implement the existing rule.
VAR isn't a rule.
I'm 100% sure it can be improved, but unless you change the rules then you're going to continue to get these tight decisions.
		
Click to expand...

Go to a game where VAR  is used. Stand around for a minute or so once your team have scored, like sheff Utd did last night. See the implementation of var in the offside rule and tell me you dont get angry. If the current offside rule is so good, why Is Graham sounesses idea being touted as better than the current VAR/ offside ruling. Answer, coz  its rubbish


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 30, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Go to a game where VAR  is used. Stand around for a minute or so once your team have scored, like sheff Utd did last night. See the implementation of var in the offside rule and tell me you dont get angry. If the current offside rule is so good, why Is Graham sounesses idea being touted as better than the current VAR/ offside ruling. Answer, coz  its rubbish
		
Click to expand...

I've go to plenty of games and no I don't get angry. Time is added on for VAR stoppages,  I'd agree the offside seems really harsh,  but that's not VAR , thats the offside rule as it stands being implemented and VAR being used to check it.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 30, 2019)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50942504

Seems that players think the same re VAR.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 30, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Go to a game where VAR  is used. Stand around for a minute or so once your team have scored, like sheff Utd did last night. See the implementation of var in the offside rule and tell me you dont get angry. If the current offside rule is so good, why Is Graham sounesses idea being touted as better than the current VAR/ offside ruling. Answer, coz  its rubbish
		
Click to expand...

As Carragher pointed out to Souness there would still be a “line” all Sousness’s idea was, any part of the attacker being onside means he’s onside, ie, the measurement will move front the front of the attacker to the rear.
It’s not an answer it’s another smudge!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 30, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Probably because the wolves players foot is ahead of the Liverpool defender.

One thing for sure VAR has been consistent with the offside decisions.

On a separate point, why did Taylor blow for the goal, I thought refs were told to let play run then if they score then they’ll look at it for any fouls etc.
		
Click to expand...

Taylor blew because he believed he saw Lallana use his arm, that was a definite infringement in his mind and therefore he can blow immediately.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 30, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			As Carragher pointed out to Souness there would still be a “line” all Sousness’s idea was, any part of the attacker being onside means he’s onside, ie, the measurement will move front the front of the attacker to the rear.
It’s not an answer it’s another smudge!
		
Click to expand...

It would make it easier for a striker to stay onside / level and not be offside by an armpit/ toenail.
It’s a sensible suggestion imo.
As it’s very controversial now.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2019)

The offside rule hasn’t changed but the level of detail that VAR go down to is very subjective and can cause issues - I think there have been 3 or 4 times someones “armpit” has been offside which to me seems ridiculous but it appears it’s part of the rules.

The main issue for me is using the lines and still pictures - it got to be so hard to find the “exact” moment the ball leaves the players foot and then aligning that to when forwards movement 

the changes I would like to see are 

1. You hear the communication between the ref and video ref so we all know what’s going on 

2. Offside - there needs to be a tolerance, a “refs/linesman” call for example where is that tight they go with the call made on the pitch - they also don’t show the lines to everyone as it confuses the matter 

3. Maybe go to a “clear daylight” rule - only offside if there is clear daylight between the defender and attacker 

4. Handball - if it hits the handball it’s a foul - accident or not


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 30, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			It would make it easier for a striker to stay onside / level and not be offside by an armpit/ toenail.
It’s a sensible suggestion imo.
As it’s very controversial now.
		
Click to expand...

It’s sensible until someone is onside by a baggy shirt etc, it’s still a mm decision, moving the mm in favour of the attacker will cause more issues for a defender.
Until the technology is sorted there will still be controversy.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The offside rule hasn’t changed but the level of detail that VAR go down to is very subjective and can cause issues - I think there have been 3 or 4 times someones “armpit” has been offside which to me seems ridiculous but it appears it’s part of the rules.

The main issue for me is using the lines and still pictures - it got to be so hard to find the “exact” moment the ball leaves the players foot and then aligning that to when forwards movement

the changes I would like to see are

1. You hear the communication between the ref and video ref so we all know what’s going on

*Only those watching on TV will know what’s going on, won’t help those in the ground.*

2. Offside - there needs to be a tolerance, a “refs/linesman” call for example where is that tight they go with the call made on the pitch - they also don’t show the lines to everyone as it confuses the matter

*You can’t have a tolerance without a measurement, the only people that see the lines are the viewer, so again has no impact on those there.*

3. Maybe go to a “clear daylight” rule - only offside if there is clear daylight between the defender and attacker

*My worry with that is you’d still have a pause to measure and what if an attackers trailing arm or heel is in line with the defender, so offside when 99% of his body is onside.*


4. Handball - if it hits the handball it’s a foul - accident or not

*Giving a penalty for an accident would be unfair to me. But agree the law needs clarifying.*

Click to expand...


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 30, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			It would make it easier for a striker to stay onside / level and not be offside by an armpit/ toenail.
It’s a sensible suggestion imo.
As it’s very controversial now.
		
Click to expand...

You're just moving the line , marginal decisions will still exist, there'll be no less controversy.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 30, 2019)

Leave VAR alone until the end of the season and then carry out a full review.

Nothing off the table, ie, Bin it, Change the laws etc.

Involve Refs, Players and supporters.


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The offside rule hasn’t changed but the level of detail that VAR go down to is very subjective and can cause issues - I think there have been 3 or 4 times someones “armpit” has been offside which to me seems ridiculous but it appears it’s part of the rules.

The main issue for me is using the lines and still pictures - it got to be so hard to find the “exact” moment the ball leaves the players foot and then aligning that to when forwards movement

the changes I would like to see are

1. You hear the communication between the ref and video ref so we all know what’s going on

2. Offside - there needs to be a tolerance, a “refs/linesman” call for example where is that tight they go with the call made on the pitch - they also don’t show the lines to everyone as it confuses the matter

3. Maybe go to a “clear daylight” rule - only offside if there is clear daylight between the defender and attacker

4. Handball - if it hits the handball it’s a foul - accident or not
		
Click to expand...

The frame used is first contact with the ball , rather than when the ball leaves the foot.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 30, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s sensible until someone is onside by a baggy shirt etc, it’s still a mm decision, moving the mm in favour of the attacker will cause more issues for a defender.
Until the technology is sorted there will still be controversy.
		
Click to expand...

Possibly right.
But it would help the attacker to stay onside if he is visibly level .
If he is 100% offside he can’t really complain.
There really isn’t an answer technology wise, you are off or not shown by the tech correctly.
It’s the rule that needs changing.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 30, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Possibly right.
But it would help the attacker to stay onside if he is visibly level .
If he is 100% offside he can’t really complain.
There really isn’t an answer technology wise, you are off or not shown by the tech correctly.
It’s the rule that needs changing.
		
Click to expand...

But we should be helping all players on both sides, not just the attackers.
Defenders will start getting slated for mistiming their movements etc.
The whole thing is a shambles!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 30, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			You're just moving the line , marginal decisions will still exist, there'll be no less controversy.
		
Click to expand...

Yes there will be.
But the striker would have To be 100% offside
ATM they think their level but their toe is off just isn’t working.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 30, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			But we should be helping all players on both sides, not just the attackers.
Defenders will start getting slated for mistiming their movements etc.
The whole thing is a shambles!
		
Click to expand...

Agree the last bit.
It’s entertainment apparently but chalking off goals is putting people off the game.
It might stop teams playing for offside and just mark your man.

AS for helping all players the handball rule discriminates  between them!


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 30, 2019)

So...no offside at all? Seems to have worked ok with hockey where the rule used to be very similar...

Would be interesting to trial it!


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 30, 2019)

Fish said:



			So why was the Wolves goal canceled out 🤔

And more so, like many instances like this, where’s the actual advantage and to whom 🤔
		
Click to expand...

I go back to my original point. Look how thick the lines are they use, it's down to an individuals interpretation where they put them. Is that blue line exactly on the edge of the Liverpool players knee? Doesn't look like it to me, looks to be an inch or so onto his kneecap. And how many milimeters was the Wolves player "offside" by?
It's a shambles at the minute and too open to how good an individual can draw a thick line accurately on a fuzzy picture.


----------



## AmandaJR (Dec 30, 2019)

Thinking out loud - what about only the goal scorer can be offside. So that would stop goal hanging etc. Can't recall which dodgy VAR (Wolves?) but the player deemed offside was in the build up...

Or a 20yd line or something - can't be offside unless inside that...

It'll never happen but perhaps football needs to have a radical rethink.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 30, 2019)

AmandaJR said:



			So...no offside at all? Seems to have worked ok with hockey where the rule used to be very similar...

Would be interesting to trial it!
		
Click to expand...


https://amp.theguardian.com/football/blog/2010/mar/06/offside-law-sepp-blatter


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 30, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			I go back to my original point. Look how thick the lines are they use, it's down to an individuals interpretation where they put them. Is that blue line exactly on the edge of the Liverpool players knee? Doesn't look like it to me, looks to be an inch or so onto his kneecap. And how many milimeters was the Wolves player "offside" by?
It's a shambles at the minute and too open to how good an individual can draw a thick line accurately on a fuzzy picture.
		
Click to expand...

Line thickness is  not relevant and the VAR refs use a 1 pixel line for the measurements.


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 30, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Line thickness is  not relevant and the VAR refs use a 1 pixel line for the measurements.
		
Click to expand...

Line placement is relevant though, that's where it comes down to interpretation. The photo Fish posted shows the line inside the kneecap of the Liverpool player IMO, not on the edge as I'm guessing it should be.


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 30, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			Line placement is relevant though, that's where it comes down to interpretation. The photo Fish posted shows the line inside the kneecap of the Liverpool player IMO, not on the edge as I'm guessing it should be.
		
Click to expand...

Ok fair enough, so we scrap it for a year and come back with a new fangled 100% accurate super high def, AI powered , machine learning super system.
It's still gonna give offsides for wafer thin  margins and people are still going to lose their mind over it. 
I don't know how you get around that.


----------



## Beezerk (Dec 30, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Ok fair enough, so we scrap it for a year and come back with a new fangled 100% accurate super high def, AI powered , machine learning super system.
It's still gonna give offsides for wafer thin  margins and people are still going to lose their mind over it.
I don't know how you get around that.
		
Click to expand...

Definitely 🤣
I'm just pointing out the flaws in the system, it's supposed to reduce human error but by design it has introduced it into the system.
Imo if the line had been drawn correctly onto the edge of the defenders knee the goal would have stood.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 30, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			I've go to plenty of games and no I don't get angry. Time is added on for VAR stoppages,  I'd agree the offside seems really harsh,  but that's not VAR , thats the offside rule as it stands being implemented and VAR being used to check it.
		
Click to expand...




robinthehood said:



			Line thickness is  not relevant and the VAR refs use a 1 pixel line for the measurements.
		
Click to expand...

Is a 1pixel line used when the ball has left the passer of the balls foot.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 30, 2019)

VAR = The new Brexit 😁


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 30, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Is a 1pixel line used when the ball has left the passer of the balls foot.
		
Click to expand...

I'd recommend reading the VAR section on the premier league website. Might help clear up a few misconceptions.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 30, 2019)

fundy said:



			You think he realised today? What did he learn today that wasnt blatantly obvious before? Think the one with the realisation today might have been Lampard!

We were way better today, so much better than we have been, better structure, better formation, better Ozil, Torreira was brilliant, Aubam chased every ball back, we just didnt last the 90 out with yet another defensive injury, a joke referee decision not to send Jorginho off, a couple of individual errors and a general lack of confidence.

We have a defense that consists of an 18 year old winger at left back, a 21 year old midfielder at right back, Sideshow Bob and Mustafi in from the cold after 20 mins and you think they thought the game was done at 1-0 against a top 4 side? Was the complete opposite, nervous and lacking in confidence in a game they couldve long since put away!

Europes long been gone, staying up and planning for next year is all we have to play for and have had for a while, hopefully we can strengthen with a defender or two and a midfielder in January and build for next season
		
Click to expand...

I think you summed it up perfectly.
It must be so frustrating to here people talk total garbage.
To get Arsenal actually playing decent football and to look relatively solid after 2 games deserves credit.
Both goals for Chelsea could quite easily have been have been avoided and problems if the first never went in the 2nd wouldn’t have.
Even DT was pleased with the performance.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 30, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Taylor blew because he believed he saw Lallana use his arm, that was a definite infringement in his mind and therefore he can blow immediately.
		
Click to expand...

Yes that's understandable but this is the same ref that thought he seen Alonso  foul gazzaniga last week 🤭🤭 Had he blew the whistle before the ball is in the net VAR would not have been able to overturn it. 

I go back to earlier in the season when Aubamayeng was offside but the liner kept his flag down as he was told too at the start of the season, Matip put the ball out and Arsenal got a corner they shouldn't have had because Aubamayeng  was offside.

Until we get a better standard of refs nothing will improve.


----------



## MegaSteve (Dec 30, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Until we get a better standard of refs nothing will improve.
		
Click to expand...

I am going to suggest players ceasing in their quest of constantly trying to deceive the match officials would be a big step forward...


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 30, 2019)

Bleeding hell, get oVAR it 
😆😭🤦‍♂️🙁


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 30, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			I am going to suggest players ceasing in their quest of constantly trying to deceive the match officials would be a big step forward...
		
Click to expand...

They're part of the problem, but not the only reason we have poor refs.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 30, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			I am going to suggest players ceasing in their quest of constantly trying to deceive the match officials would be a big step forward...
		
Click to expand...

Spot on.
Managers & fans don’t  seem to mind when their players are constantly trying to con the ref,but soon get the hump when a ref makes a dodgy decision against them.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 30, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes that's understandable but this is the same ref that thought he seen Alonso  foul gazzaniga last week 🤭🤭 Had he blew the whistle before the ball is in the net VAR would not have been able to overturn it.

I go back to earlier in the season when Aubamayeng was offside but the liner kept his flag down as he was told too at the start of the season, Matip put the ball out and Arsenal got a corner they shouldn't have had because Aubamayeng  was offside.

Until we get a better standard of refs nothing will improve.
		
Click to expand...

Can you honestly blame Taylor for that last night?
Surely what we need in any sport is honest officials and ones willing to make decisions, he got one look from one angle at one time and called handball, as that’s what he believed he saw.
I also agree last night he’d of got the Lallana one wrong, but no official, technology, system will ever be perfect and unfortunately because of the pressure from everywhere in Football (from the top down) and the constant berating of officials VAR has now come in.
Maybe we’d of been better off accepting humans make mistakes and living with it.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 30, 2019)

1. You hear the communication between the ref and video ref so we all know what’s going on.

I'd agree to a trial, as footy fans are a bit more reactionary than other sports (riots, pitch invasions, death threats to officials etc). It could also show up refereeing "bias" by how they ask the questions to the VAR official - for the same decision he can ask it in different ways by the type of question he asksand whether a direct or indirect question - Is there a reason for me to disallow this goal / did the defender make contact with the attacker / was there enough contact by the defender to consider it foul play etc......

2. Offside - there needs to be a tolerance, a “refs/linesman” call for example where is that tight they go with the call made on the pitch - they also don’t show the lines to everyone as it confuses the matter.

We will moan about whether someone is 4 inches of 5 inches offside then, your just moving the lines but using them in the same manner, then.

3. Maybe go to a “clear daylight” rule - only offside if there is clear daylight between the defender and attacker.

Totally disagree, and again, how do you measure it - in inches or in lux? What about night games? 

4. Handball - if it hits the handball it’s a foul - accident or not.

Absolutely against this. So basically your are sanctioning poor wingers and full backs to just blast the ball at the first defenders arms, just 2 yards away. Why bother trying to put in a great, arcing, spinning, cross into a 2 yard area in between 2 centre halves and right on the head of yor striker, when you can just blast it as a defender 2 yards away. Daft.
Go back to what we had about 5 years ago, whereby its deliberate only or if you are deliberately trying to block it with your arms.

I do believe in attackers getting a slight benefit, and I think a good option would be for VAR to still check "the lines", but the part of the body that is only designated to be offside is the part of your body that you either score with or your first touch is with. So if your armpit/head/shoulder is offside but you score with your foot its okay, same the other way around, if yor foot is offside, but you head it in, your okay. In general play it would be the same with the "assister", if his head is offside, but his first touch is with his foot then he crosses it in, he's fine.
It gives a slight advantage, but is also measurable, and should mainly be a matter of "fact".

I think we need to run with it for the remainder of the season, then managers, players, refs and most importantly fans have a say.

Season ticket holders and official club members can vote on certain parts of it also, and not just "herberts" on the sky news app having their say. Not a dig, but its a different beast for fans at the game compared to viewers, so if 70-80% of regular match goers get a say, as yet again the fans dont have any power in the game, and their views are rarely sought.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 30, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Can you honestly blame Taylor for that last night?
Surely what we need in any sport is honest officials and ones willing to make decisions, he got one look from one angle at one time and called handball, as that’s what he believed he saw.
I also agree last night he’d of got the Lallana one wrong, but no official, technology, system will ever be perfect and unfortunately because of the pressure from everywhere in Football (from the top down) and the constant berating of officials VAR has now come in.
Maybe we’d of been better off accepting humans make mistakes and living with it.
		
Click to expand...

The problem I have with the ref yesterday, apart from his general inconsistency during the game, was that he has VAR as a back up, so doesnt necessarily have to blow as it will be checked anyway, especially as he gave handball despite it being clearly the shoulder.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			The problem I have with the ref yesterday, apart from his general inconsistency during the game, was that he has VAR as a back up, so doesnt necessarily have to blow as it will be checked anyway, especially as he gave handball despite it being clearly the shoulder.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t like Taylor Pete, but you were there, you’re observing the speed of play, intensity of the players and atmosphere from the crowd, now imagine being him, expected to keep up with play and get every decision correct.

VVD plays a 40yd ball, 3 players close in on it and it hits Lallana, from his position, distance etc he makes a call, not every decision needs time to make, he’s made a genuine error, last season 0-0, this season 1-0 LPool, thanks to VAR, not you, but I think some fans are expecting perfection for every decision.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 30, 2019)

I think the biggest thing we can take from var is that mistakes are made. It’s simply human error. 

That being said, without var to show it, we’d get the usual tripe that it evens itself out. It doesn’t. Now everyone is treated equally. Does offside need clarification? Yes. But everything else is fine imo.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			1. You hear the communication between the ref and video ref so we all know what’s going on.

I'd agree to a trial, as footy fans are a bit more reactionary than other sports (riots, pitch invasions, death threats to officials etc). It could also show up refereeing "bias" by how they ask the questions to the VAR official - for the same decision he can ask it in different ways by the type of question he asksand whether a direct or indirect question - Is there a reason for me to disallow this goal / did the defender make contact with the attacker / was there enough contact by the defender to consider it foul play etc......

2. Offside - there needs to be a tolerance, a “refs/linesman” call for example where is that tight they go with the call made on the pitch - they also don’t show the lines to everyone as it confuses the matter.

We will moan about whether someone is 4 inches of 5 inches offside then, your just moving the lines but using them in the same manner, then.

3. Maybe go to a “clear daylight” rule - only offside if there is clear daylight between the defender and attacker.

Totally disagree, and again, how do you measure it - in inches or in lux? What about night games? 

4. Handball - if it hits the handball it’s a foul - accident or not.

Absolutely against this. So basically your are sanctioning poor wingers and full backs to just blast the ball at the first defenders arms, just 2 yards away. Why bother trying to put in a great, arcing, spinning, cross into a 2 yard area in between 2 centre halves and right on the head of yor striker, when you can just blast it as a defender 2 yards away. Daft.
Go back to what we had about 5 years ago, whereby its deliberate only or if you are deliberately trying to block it with your arms.

I do believe in attackers getting a slight benefit, and I think a good option would be for VAR to still check "the lines", but the part of the body that is only designated to be offside is the part of your body that you either score with or your first touch is with. So if your armpit/head/shoulder is offside but you score with your foot its okay, same the other way around, if yor foot is offside, but you head it in, your okay. In general play it would be the same with the "assister", if his head is offside, but his first touch is with his foot then he crosses it in, he's fine.
It gives a slight advantage, but is also measurable, and should mainly be a matter of "fact".

I think we need to run with it for the remainder of the season, then managers, players, refs and most importantly fans have a say.

*Season ticket holders and official club members can vote on certain parts of it also, and not just "herberts" on the sky news app having their say. Not a dig, but its a different beast for fans at the game compared to viewers, so if 70-80% of regular match goers get a say, as yet again the fans dont have any power in the game, and their views are rarely sought. *

Click to expand...

The game is more than just the fans in the ground now  - there is prob more watching on telly by a considerable margin than watching in the ground so why shouldn’t they have a say if the sport was going to ask the fans ? 

It maybe not a dig but it’s close to snobbery when there are millions around the county and even more around the world watching the games. Just take Salahs impact for the club in the Middle East for example - it’s massive for the club.

And why should fans have power in the game ? Do fans get asked in any other sport ?


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The game is more than just the fans in the ground now  - there is prob more watching on telly by a considerable margin than watching in the ground so why shouldn’t they have a say if the sport was going to ask the fans ? 

It maybe not a dig but it’s close to snobbery when there are millions around the county and even more around the world watching the games. Just take Salahs impact for the club in the Middle East for example - it’s massive for the club.

And why should fans have power in the game ? Do fans get asked in any other sport ?
		
Click to expand...

The fans in the ground are the ones most affected though. So if any fans were to be asked, it should be them. Not us Sat at home, we know what’s going on, at the ground you don’t. 

I agree financially, tv exposure is massive for clubs. But how often is the kop or anfields atmosphere referenced when it’s a big game. Playing in an empty stadium because fans have decided enough is enough isn’t an option either. 

As per my biggest point re var, at least now all fans are talking about fair decisions. It’s no longer small clubs fans complaining whilst the favoured clubs tell us things even out.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2019)

Thought this was a good visual representation


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 28835


Thought this was a good visual representation
		
Click to expand...

Its irrelevant,  we have a system that while not 100% accurate , it's still way better than a assistant ref can be. 
Before VAR we accepted marginal decisions and moved on. Now that we are seeing them being drawn and worked out everyone is losing their shit and going mental.
It definitely needs to be quicker and the whole line drawing on t.v. needs to go.
But unless we're going to ditch VAR we need to just accept it and move on.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 30, 2019)

M



Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 28835


Thought this was a good visual representation
		
Click to expand...

You could have posted this yesterday. Would have stopped the bickering 😂😂

Imo if it’s 0.02 seconds per frame. They should use the frame prior to day light between ball and person playing it. Gives any margins on error to the attacking team. But in grand scheme of things, not defender or attacker can plan to step up and play offside, or break to that level of accuracy.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			The fans in the ground are the ones most affected though. So if any fans were to be asked, it should be them. Not us Sat at home, we know what’s going on, at the ground you don’t.

I agree financially, tv exposure is massive for clubs. But how often is the kop or anfields atmosphere referenced when it’s a big game. Playing in an empty stadium because fans have decided enough is enough isn’t an option either.

As per my biggest point re var, at least now all fans are talking about fair decisions. It’s no longer small clubs fans complaining whilst the favoured clubs tell us things even out.
		
Click to expand...

All fans are affected - but the communication needs to be better within the stadium , going to hard at Anfield without a big screen though 

The minute you start to “segregate” fans by only asking people who go to the game then a division starts - people will always go to the game , people aren’t going to stop going to a game because of VAR - there were more mistakes before VAR and people still went. The clubs make a lot of money from that telly exposure and I reckon losing that telly money could have a bigger effect


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 30, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t like Taylor Pete, but you were there, you’re observing the speed of play, intensity of the players and atmosphere from the crowd, now imagine being him, expected to keep up with play and get every decision correct.

VVD plays a 40yd ball, 3 players close in on it and it hits Lallana, from his position, distance etc he makes a call, not every decision needs time to make, he’s made a genuine error, last season 0-0, this season 1-0 LPool, thanks to VAR, not you, but I think some fans are expecting perfection for every decision.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, but:-

A. He was inconsistent throughtout the game, so this was the cherry on the cake of a poor performance anyway. Jeez, Wolves must have taken at least 3-4 illegal throw-ins nevermind all of the other stuff, including some poor decisions against Wolves. The throw ins arent even at speed.

B. He does have VAR as a back up, so for him to whistle for something that didnt happen is porr, especially when he could have asked the VAR guy to just "check" for handball, as its very important what a ref gives initially, as it changes the "burden of proof" when a VAR official has to overturn an original decision compared to just confirming or denying a suspicion of a foul, especially if he isnt 95% sure. It does make a big difference.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All fans are affected - but the communication needs to be better within the stadium , going to hard at Anfield without a big screen though 

The minute you start to “segregate” fans by only asking people who go to the game then a division starts - people will always go to the game , people aren’t going to stop going to a game because of VAR - there were more mistakes before VAR and people still went. The clubs make a lot of money from that telly exposure and I reckon losing that telly money could have a bigger effect
		
Click to expand...

Fans aren’t being segregated. I’m not saying one lot is better than the rest. 
How about If Sky were told that all the stuff we see at home can’t be shown now. So when var occurs they just keep the cameras rolling on the players stood on the pitch. No commentary and no further reference to the issue after the game restarts. 

The experience for match goers and tv viewers is already different. To claim it’s not more of a disruption to those in the stadium is simply not true. 

The issue I was making about fans not going, had nothing to do without the amount of mistakes, and more simply down to the disruptions. 

My Nan and half a dozen friends all cancelled their season tickets last year due to TV games being rescheduled. Late nights in winter not ideal for old folk. So it does play a part. 3. More have decided this year to not renew theirs due to the change of atmosphere. Don’t get me wrong. Liverpoool will never have a shortfall of fans wanting tickets. But it still has had an effect.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The game is more than just the fans in the ground now  - there is prob more watching on telly by a considerable margin than watching in the ground so why shouldn’t they have a say if the sport was going to ask the fans ?

It maybe not a dig but it’s close to snobbery when there are millions around the county and even more around the world watching the games. Just take Salahs impact for the club in the Middle East for example - it’s massive for the club.

And why should fans have power in the game ? Do fans get asked in any other sport ?
		
Click to expand...

Because the fans in the ground are being short-changed, and I incude my club in that as we dont have any screens.

If Tashy becomes the norm where matchgoers are driven away from the game and yoiu then get half-empty grounds, how will that do for your "product".

A "telly" fan can stream it illegaly for less than £50 a year now, the same as what a match-goer pays for 1 game. For someone who does do the aways and has a season ticket, they can be "investing" £5-10k a season watching his football compared to the one who is investing nothing. That is whi I also included members who may only for to 5 games a season, but still contributes. 

So if you take your "everyone should have an equal say" to the nth degree, and all Asian fans vote for 2am kick offs so that they can watch it after they get in from work, we go with that?

Call it snobbery if you like, but to me regular and semi-regular match goers should have a bigger say than the red button crowd.

Still want the same handball rule?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Fans aren’t being segregated. I’m not saying one lot is better than the rest.
How about If Sky were told that all the stuff we see at home can’t be shown now. So when var occurs they just keep the cameras rolling on the players stood on the pitch. No commentary and no further reference to the issue after the game restarts.

The experience for match goers and tv viewers is already different. To claim it’s not more of a disruption to those in the stadium is simply not true.

The issue I was making about fans not going, had nothing to do without the amount of mistakes, and more simply down to the disruptions.

My Nan and half a dozen friends all cancelled their season tickets last year due to TV games being rescheduled. Late nights in winter not ideal for old folk. So it does play a part. 3. More have decided this year to not renew theirs due to the change of atmosphere. Don’t get me wrong. Liverpoool will never have a shortfall of fans wanting tickets. But it still has had an effect.
		
Click to expand...

The segregation is if following LB suggestions that only match going fans are asked about VAR or consulted when it’s not just them that watches the games. 

As for the VAR when it happens - as I said needs better communication within the stadium so that they know what’s going on , it happens in rugby , hockey , cricket , tennis etc - communication is key to making it work and right now it’s poor 

The scheduling has always been a bone of contention for fans - it’s part of getting the telly money which helps pay for those top players etc - vicious circle and don’t know what the answer is to that


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All fans are affected - but the communication needs to be better within the stadium , going to hard at Anfield without a big screen though

The minute you start to “segregate” fans by only asking people who go to the game then a division starts - people will always go to the game , people aren’t going to stop going to a game because of VAR - there were more mistakes before VAR and people still went. The clubs make a lot of money from that telly exposure and I reckon losing that telly money could have a bigger effect
		
Click to expand...

How many match goers on here 10-12 maybe?

If Tashy goes through with his threat not to go, thats maybe 8-10%, if that continues into the mainstream, could make a big difference.

Most of the extra money in the game has gone to agents and the players and managers. If it went back to the main income being at the gate, football would re-adjust over time, probably for the better. lets go back to it being affordable and players just being on 10k a week (more than enough).


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 30, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50944416

Could  be a positive move.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The segregation is if following LB suggestions that only match going fans are asked about VAR or consulted when it’s not just them that watches the games. 

As for the VAR when it happens - as I said needs better communication within the stadium so that they know what’s going on , it happens in rugby , hockey , cricket , tennis etc - communication is key to making it work and right now it’s poor 

The scheduling has always been a bone of contention for fans - it’s part of getting the telly money which helps pay for those top players etc - vicious circle and don’t know what the answer is to that
		
Click to expand...

Thbf I agree with your point earlier that maybe the fans shouldn’t be asked. No other sport has asked them. But if fans were asked, then I fully agree with LB that it should be matchgoets only as their spectacle has the greater disruption. 

I would imagine match goers Probably account for less than 10% of the viewing public on matches. In fact it’s probably closer to 1% worldwide. No way should they dictate how those that goes get effected. Us at home get the best of it all.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			How many match goers on here 10-12 maybe?

If Tashy goes through with his threat not to go, thats maybe 8-10%, if that continues into the mainstream, could make a big difference.

Most of the extra money in the game has gone to agents and the players and managers. If it went back to the main income being at the gate, football would re-adjust over time, probably for the better. lets go back to it being affordable and players just being on 10k a week (more than enough).
		
Click to expand...

3 or 4 as season is more than enough games to count myself a match goer. In fact, with the last 2 years of football. I’d say it’s too much!!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, but:-

A. He was inconsistent throughtout the game, so this was the cherry on the cake of a poor performance anyway. Jeez, Wolves must have taken at least 3-4 illegal throw-ins nevermind all of the other stuff, including some poor decisions against Wolves. The throw ins arent even at speed.

B. He does have VAR as a back up, so for him to whistle for something that didnt happen is porr, especially when he could have asked the VAR guy to just "check" for handball, as its very important what a ref gives initially, as it changes the "burden of proof" when a VAR official has to overturn an original decision compared to just confirming or denying a suspicion of a foul, especially if he isnt 95% sure. It does make a big difference.
		
Click to expand...

Let’s say the Wolves keeper saved Mane’s shot and goes for a corner, Taylor would of been just as wrong, but the decision wouldn’t of been checked.

I totally agree about other areas and VAR being the issue, ie, an attacking team can “cheat” by taking a free kick 1-3 yds closer to the goal or a throw-in 5-10yds further down the line or win a corner when they are last to touch it, all very clear decisions, but VAR isn’t there for those decisions.

Maybe, and I agree it’ll ruin the game more, but maybe it’s all or nothing for technology or 3 appeals per team per 45 minutes.


----------



## Bazzatron (Dec 30, 2019)

The moment VAR made me hold back on celebrating a goal and ending up 5 rows from where I started is the moment it started to getting far too annoying for my liking.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The segregation is if following LB suggestions that only match going fans are asked about VAR or consulted when it’s not just them that watches the games.

As for the VAR when it happens - as I said needs better communication within the stadium so that they know what’s going on , it happens in rugby , hockey , cricket , tennis etc - communication is key to making it work and right now it’s poor

The scheduling has always been a bone of contention for fans - it’s part of getting the telly money which helps pay for those top players etc - vicious circle and don’t know what the answer is to that
		
Click to expand...

Direct question - If the FA ever do votes/consultation with regards to kick-off times, VAR, rules and other parts of the game, they should include equally Asian/American/African subscribers as an equal part to regular match goers?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 30, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Let’s say the Wolves keeper saved Mane’s shot and goes for a corner, Taylor would of been just as wrong, but the decision wouldn’t of been checked.

I totally agree about other areas and VAR being the issue, ie, an attacking team can “cheat” by taking a free kick 1-3 yds closer to the goal or a throw-in 5-10yds further down the line or win a corner when they are last to touch it, all very clear decisions, but VAR isn’t there for those decisions.

Maybe, and I agree it’ll ruin the game more, but maybe it’s all or nothing for technology or 3 appeals per team per 45 minutes.
		
Click to expand...

Good point, but he did blow after the ball went in the net (not sure if it was due to reaction time, or by design).

3 appeals per match for me, decided by the captain of the team within 30 seconds, takes a lot more controversy out of it, and potential amount of usages, as currently you could conceivably have 10-15 a match, whereas that has a maximum of 6, and not all 6 may actually get used up.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Direct question - If the FA ever do votes/consultation with regards to kick-off times, VAR, rules and other parts of the game, they should include equally *Asian/American/African/Norwegian* subscribers as an equal part to regular match goers?
		
Click to expand...

They can ask that lot by being at Anfield for any home game, ask them via direct link to their ipads.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Good point, but he did blow after the ball went in the net (not sure if it was due to reaction time, or by design).

3 appeals per match for me, decided by the captain of the team within 3 seconds, takes a lot more controversy out of it, and potential amount of usages, as currently you could conceivably have 10-15 a match, whereas that has a maximum of 6, and not all 6 may actually get used up.
		
Click to expand...

Agree, Use em or lose em.

VAR proved whistle went after ball entered the goal, probably by accident.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 28835


Thought this was a good visual representation
		
Click to expand...

Surely the right answer is give whatever the red team wants.


----------



## Swingalot (Dec 30, 2019)

Anyone seen the Moyes press conference? 

Comedy gold. Moyes has been on the Christmas sauce, mentioning possible Champions League and how not many mangers win as much as him etc. 

They are 4th from bottom, he is talking as if WH are 4th from top and he is Pep


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 30, 2019)

Swingalot said:



			Anyone seen the Moyes press conference?

Comedy gold. Moyes has been on the Christmas sauce, mentioning possible Champions League and how not many mangers win as much as him etc.

They are 4th from bottom, he is talking as if WH are 4th from top and he is Pep 

Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1211710477941854208


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Direct question - If the FA ever do votes/consultation with regards to kick-off times, VAR, rules and other parts of the game, they should include equally Asian/American/African subscribers as an equal part to regular match goers?
		
Click to expand...

Kick off times - no

VAR and rules - no vote to anyone 

It’s not up to the fans to decide the laws and rules of the game - they don’t in any sport 



Liverbirdie said:



			Good point, but he did blow after the ball went in the net (not sure if it was due to reaction time, or by design).

3 appeals per match for me, decided by the captain of the team within 30 seconds, takes a lot more controversy out of it, and potential amount of usages, as currently you could conceivably have 10-15 a match, whereas that has a maximum of 6, and not all 6 may actually get used up.
		
Click to expand...


The last thing the game needs is appeal process during the game - the first time someone uses it when the opposition is on a fast break and all hell breaks loose.

Have always been against VAR because for me it doesn’t work with the flow of the game and right now the way it’s being implemented by the Prem is ruining the game BUT it’s being implemented it seems far better in other countries - Australia seem to be doing it well , it worked well in the Ladies World Cup , CL seems to work better yet as per normal the Prem League have done it worse than anyone else 

Bring it better communications , ref goes to the pitchside monitors and he makes the choice - needs to be done quicker


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Kick off times - no

VAR and rules - no vote to anyone

It’s not up to the fans to decide the laws and rules of the game - they don’t in any sport




The last thing the game needs is appeal process during the game - the first time someone uses it when the opposition is on a fast break and all hell breaks loose.

Have always been against VAR because for me it doesn’t work with the flow of the game and right now the way it’s being implemented by the Prem is ruining the game BUT it’s being implemented it seems far better in other countries - Australia seem to be doing it well , it worked well in the Ladies World Cup , CL seems to work better yet as per normal the Prem League have done it worse than anyone else

Bring it better communications , ref goes to the pitchside monitors and he makes the choice - needs to be done quicker
		
Click to expand...

The Captan would appeal at the next stop in the game!

As for the Aussie example, the fans or the players don’t get the insight, that’s purely for TV Audiences.
How does that help frustration in the ground.

Wasn’t VAR controversial in the CL last season?

Totally agree the pitch side monitor needs using.


----------



## garyinderry (Dec 30, 2019)

We have had numerous examples of corners being given and its clear as day on regular sky coverage. 


Why can't a ref be notified immediately.  

These are clear errors never mind the rest of the nonsense.  If they cant get that right then they will never get the rest of it right.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 30, 2019)

garyinderry said:



			We have had numerous examples of corners being given and its clear as day on regular sky coverage.


Why can't a ref be notified immediately. 

These are clear errors never mind the rest of the nonsense.  If they cant get that right then they will never get the rest of it right.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed, but according to the PL, VAR is not there for those decisions.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 30, 2019)

garyinderry said:



			We have had numerous examples of corners being given and its clear as day on regular sky coverage.


Why can't a ref be notified immediately. 

These are clear errors never mind the rest of the nonsense.  If they cant get that right then they will never get the rest of it right.
		
Click to expand...

Roboref gets it right every time, and tasers any player who argues with him.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Kick off times - no

VAR and rules - no vote to anyone

It’s not up to the fans to decide the laws and rules of the game - they don’t in any sport

The last thing the game needs is appeal process during the game - the first time someone uses it when the opposition is on a fast break and all hell breaks loose.

Have always been against VAR because for me it doesn’t work with the flow of the game and right now the way it’s being implemented by the Prem is ruining the game BUT it’s being implemented it seems far better in other countries - Australia seem to be doing it well , it worked well in the Ladies World Cup , CL seems to work better yet as per normal the Prem League have done it worse than anyone else

Bring it better communications , ref goes to the pitchside monitors and he makes the choice - needs to be done quicker
		
Click to expand...

But VAR is possibly the most controversial change in the game in my lifetime and if players, refs, managers can give their input, who not the fans? Is this not segregation?

I'm not saying that they decide the rules and laws alone, but if the others opinions are sought, why not the fans also?

I can understand pro and anti-VAR stances, but to me the main process is the biggest factor, it should be the players/mamnagers to decide when used, rather than the officials. Until we give it a go we wont know if it can be an improvement.

Are you still happy with all handballs being a foul/penalty?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 30, 2019)

The R&A did ask golfers what they thought about rule changes ,and by and large have done a good job.

Football could do a similar consultation and just ask the fans their opinions on certain things.
Could be ready for next season if they start soon .

But they would probably mess the questions up!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			But VAR is possibly the most controversial change in the game in my lifetime and if players, refs, managers can give their input, who not the fans? Is this not segregation?

I'm not saying that they decide the rules and laws alone, but if the others opinions are sought, why not the fans also?
		
Click to expand...

A level of VAR has been inputted into a number of other sports without the need of the input from fans - why does football need it ? When they introduced goalline technology they didn’t need to speak to the fans 




			I can understand pro and anti-VAR stances, but to me the main process is the biggest factor, it should be the players/mamnagers to decide when used, rather than the officials. Until we give it a go we wont know if it can be an improvement.
		
Click to expand...

Has not been implemented this season because the clubs and managers agreed to it ? 




			Are you still happy with all handballs being a foul/penalty?
		
Click to expand...

I’m not happy with the way it is now - how can one person handle it in the area accidentally and it be fine and someone else do it and it result in a free kick ? 

Either it’s a foul for both or it’s ok for both


----------



## TheDiablo (Dec 30, 2019)

The saving grace to choosing this season to introduce VAR so badly is that at least nobody can lay even the smallest claim to Liverpool being undeserving champions because of it. Would have been a potential nightmare with how close last season was! 

It won't be particularly exciting, but I hope the bottom 3 this season is equally clear cut. Then sort out the mess in time for next year.


----------



## davemc1 (Dec 30, 2019)

You know what’s more aggravating than var? The constant droning on about var! 

Can’t we talk about the world champions? Or even the European Champions or maybe even the soon to be, Eng...

(hang on soft lad, don’t be getting carried away)


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			The saving grace to choosing this season to introduce VAR so badly is that at least nobody can lay even the smallest claim to Liverpool being undeserving champions because of it. Would have been a potential nightmare with how close last season was!

It won't be particularly exciting, but I hope the bottom 3 this season is equally clear cut. Then sort out the mess in time for next year.
		
Click to expand...

Social media is full of people claiming that exact thing - Any Liverpool success will be tainted because of VAR , Liverpool only winning at the moment because of VAR , the “LiVARpool” is all over the place. 

If we win there will be many stating the above till the end of time - it’s already been decided that it’s down to VAR despite the club being on the recieving end of VAR issues as well. 

I can see them attempting to sort out the mess and it being made even worse - there is a few little things they can do now to make it a bit easier for themselves


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A level of VAR has been inputted into a number of other sports without the need of the input from fans - why does football need it ? When they introduced goalline technology they didn’t need to speak to the fans



Has not been implemented this season because the clubs and managers agreed to it ?



I’m not happy with the way it is now - how can one person handle it in the area accidentally and it be fine and someone else do it and it result in a free kick ?

Either it’s a foul for both or it’s ok for both
		
Click to expand...

Because its so controversial, it is dominating the sport at the moment and will continue to if it doesnt improve. I'm not asking for the fans alone to decide everything realted to it, but just to have a say like all the other interested parties will get the chance to.

I agree with you on the defending/attacking team to be treated equally, but dont want to sanction throwing the baby out with the bathwater by making every handball a foul either. That replaces something daft with something absurd.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Social media is full of people claiming that exact thing - Any Liverpool success will be tainted because of VAR , Liverpool only winning at the moment because of VAR , the “LiVARpool” is all over the place.

If we win there will be many stating the above till the end of time - it’s already been decided that it’s down to VAR despite the club being on the recieving end of VAR issues as well.

I can see them attempting to sort out the mess and it being made even worse - there is a few little things they can do now to make it a bit easier for themselves
		
Click to expand...

Social media is fully of divvies, always will be.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Because its so controversial, it is dominating the sport at the moment and will continue to if it doesnt improve. I'm not asking for the fans alone to decide everything realted to it, but just to have a say like all the other interested parties will get the chance to.

I agree with you on the defending/attacking team to be treated equally, but dont want to sanction throwing the baby out with the bathwater by making every handball a foul either. That replaces something daft with something absurd.
		
Click to expand...

It’s only contraversial because it’s being implemented poorly by the Premier League In regards letting the fans and players know what’s going on - the decisions that are being made don’t seem to be the issue 

The Prem League are going to make changes to ensure a smoother quicker process - but that will be working alongside the clubs 

What do you think the fans would say that would be any different ?

As an example there was an article where they asked 8 Journos what can be done - they came up with 8 different things 

Also let’s look at the logistics of it - there are millions of football fans who watch Premier league clubs- how do you ask them ? What do you ask them ? Are you really going to get a workable set of answers.

Other sports can introduce VAR smoothly and without needing an input from the fans - why in football ?


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 30, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 28835


Thought this was a good visual representation
		
Click to expand...

Fantastic explanation that. That's what we've been saying all along. The margin is too big to give someone who appears to be level as offside by a gnat's testicle, particularly when it takes over 3 minutes to arrive at the decision. Level on the replay has to be given as onside. If they're not level you'll see he's clearly offside on the replay, enough to be beyond the margin of error stated here, and no arguments can be had because he's clearly offside Would be so much better and far less headaches - and faster because you'd not have to wait for some tit to draw lines all over the screen.


----------



## Orikoru (Dec 30, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			The saving grace to choosing this season to introduce VAR so badly is that at least nobody can lay even the smallest claim to Liverpool being undeserving champions because of it. Would have been a potential nightmare with how close last season was!

It won't be particularly exciting, but I hope the bottom 3 this season is equally clear cut. Then sort out the mess in time for next year.
		
Click to expand...

What do you mean? Without all their jammy VAR decisions they'd be about 10 points worse off and still within bottling range!


----------



## Ye Olde Boomer (Dec 30, 2019)

We have professional (round ball style) football here but it's small time compared to Premier League.
The owner of my favorite baseball team owns or co-owns a Premier League team...I think Liverpool but I'm not sure.

I like your rugby more than association rules football (called soccer here for whatever reason). I'm a little confused between the fifteens and thirteens, however.  Our school teams play fifteens but we see Southern Hemisphere thirteens on television.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 30, 2019)

VAR has been controversial in all Leagues it’s been implemented in, most are in to their 2 season with it and there has been howlers.
The Bundesliga has introduced calibrated lines for offside this season after not using them last season.
Hopefully the errors/controversies will lessen as we get use to it.

Some of the issues the PL are facing are not unique to us.


----------



## GG26 (Dec 30, 2019)

I think that all this talk of Liverpool getting the rub of the green on VAR decisions is not borne out by the facts.  I felt very sorry for Wolves on Sunday, but based on the rules the two reviews came up with the correct outcome.  Orikoru, you can’t say that Spurs didn’t benefit from the Pukki offside and as a Leicester supporter we got a similar one against Son earlier in the season.  You win some, you lose some which was always the case.  Like everyone else I do have my frustrations with the way VAR is being applied - just let the ref look at the screen himself to make the decision.


----------



## GG26 (Dec 30, 2019)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			We have professional (round ball style) football here but it's small time compared to Premier League.
The owner of my favorite baseball team owns or co-owns a Premier League team...I think Liverpool but I'm not sure.

I like your rugby more than association rules football (called soccer here for whatever reason). I'm a little confused between the fifteens and thirteens, however.  Our school teams play fifteens but we see Southern Hemisphere thirteens on television.
		
Click to expand...

15 is Rugby Union and 13 Rugby League, the two split over 100 years ago and play to somewhat different rules.  I prefer Union, and used to have a season ticket at Leicester Tigers.  

I have followed the Seahawks in the NFL for over 30 years, although more just looking out for their results rather than watching the matches on TV unless they get to the playoffs.


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 30, 2019)

GG26 said:



			I think that all this talk of Liverpool getting the rub of the green on VAR decisions is not borne out by the facts.  I felt very sorry for Wolves on Sunday, but based on the rules the two reviews came up with the correct outcome.  Orikoru, you can’t say that Spurs didn’t benefit from the Pukki offside and as a Leicester supporter we got a similar one against Son earlier in the season.  You win some, you lose some which was always the case.  Like everyone else I do have my frustrations with the way VAR is being applied - just let the ref look at the screen himself to make the decision.
		
Click to expand...

That is such a cliche though. They never even out. 

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/eng...sions-have-affected-every-premier-league-club

Without var I’m and refs having to use it,human error can be used as a get out for when refs bottle it at places like anfield and old Trafford when the small clubs come to visit.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 30, 2019)

GG26 said:



			I think that all this talk of Liverpool getting the rub of the green on VAR decisions is not borne out by the facts.  I felt very sorry for Wolves on Sunday, but based on the rules the two reviews came up with the correct outcome.  Orikoru, you can’t say that Spurs didn’t benefit from the Pukki offside and as a Leicester supporter we got a similar one against Son earlier in the season.  You win some, you lose some which was always the case.  Like everyone else I do have my frustrations with the way VAR is being applied - just let the ref look at the screen himself to make the decision.
		
Click to expand...

Apparently this is how the table would look without VAR:
Just for fun guys and girls, just for fun.


----------



## Fish (Dec 30, 2019)

Refs are not improving in any aspect of the game imo, there were once again so many instances over the last few fixture days when they blew far too early not allowing an advantage to unfold, and if there wasn’t any, then go back to the foul. They were on many occasions too eager to blow & book and bring the game to a halt, when there was still a good break and the teams player who had been fouled, still in possession and attacking.

Refs really do need to improve greatly, but we’ve been saying the same for decades so I won’t hold my breath.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 31, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Apparently this is how the table would look without VAR:
Just for fun guys and girls, just for fun.
View attachment 28836

Click to expand...

Is that genuine??


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 31, 2019)

pauldj42 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1211710477941854208

Click to expand...

He’s  delusional, remember he was only a centre forwárd away from winning the league😂

Football genius.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 31, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Is that genuine??
		
Click to expand...

Apparently they’ve been doing it since week 1, take your result against Wolves, you might of been 1-0 down at half time, but who’s to say you wouldn’t of scored twice in the 2nd half. 
They have the result as Wolves losing 3pts and yous gaining 3pts.
I take it with a pinch of salt.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 31, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Is that genuine??
		
Click to expand...

The table on the BBC website had Liverpool in fourth place in VAR decisions!!
Behind
Southampton
Brighton
Man United.
Was dated 30th December 2019.
Seems a bit odd if this is genuine???


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 31, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			The saving grace to choosing this season to introduce VAR so badly is that at least nobody can lay even the smallest claim to Liverpool being undeserving champions because of it. Would have been a potential nightmare with how close last season was!

It won't be particularly exciting, but I hope the bottom 3 this season is equally clear cut. Then sort out the mess in time for next year.
		
Click to expand...

This season’s league is probably the fairest one yet with very little wrong decisions leading to incorrect goals/pens given or not given where they should.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 31, 2019)




----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 31, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Apparently they’ve been doing it since week 1, take your result against Wolves, you might of been 1-0 down at half time, but who’s to say you wouldn’t of scored twice in the 2nd half.
They have the result as Wolves losing 3pts and yous gaining 3pts.
I take it with a pinch of salt.
		
Click to expand...

I cant think of a decision in a game where VAR has swung it and we've won the game directly from it. 

There was a piece in a paper where key VAR decisions had been used and ours was level 3 for and 3 against. That wolves one however tight it was, and I'd be happy for advantage to the attacker, it was the correct call going by the same decisions  that's gone before for others in the last 5 months.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 31, 2019)

I'm looking forward to when a goal is scored by the armpit of a player to see if VAR overrule it or give it.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 31, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I cant think of a decision in a game where VAR has swung it and we've won the game directly from it.

There was a piece in a paper where key VAR decisions had been used and ours was level 3 for and 3 against. That wolves one however tight it was, and I'd be happy for advantage to the attacker, it was the correct call going by the same decisions  that's gone before for others in the last 5 months.
		
Click to expand...

Wasn’t there an argument in the City match over the TAA handball? Don’t know if that would of made a difference.

I’ve seen a few that you should of got, Mane away at Sheff Utd, but again, I don’t know if it affected the result.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 31, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Wasn’t there an argument in the City match over the TAA handball? Don’t know if that would of made a difference.

I’ve seen a few that you should of got, Mane away at Sheff Utd, but again, I don’t know if it affected the result.
		
Click to expand...

The TAA handball wasn’t a VAR issue though surely - that was the referee deciding it wasn’t a handball.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 31, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The TAA handball wasn’t a VAR issue though surely - that was the referee deciding it wasn’t a handball.
		
Click to expand...

Didn’t it lead to you scoring? So it could of been reviewed, not sure of the details but I’m sure it was mentioned along side VAR.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 31, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Wasn’t there an argument in the City match over the TAA handball? Don’t know if that would of made a difference.

I’ve seen a few that you should of got, Mane away at Sheff Utd, but again, I don’t know if it affected the result.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, the handball rule is ridiculous now. There’s about 4 different versions of handball.

It never we won 1-0


----------



## fundy (Dec 31, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 28835


Thought this was a good visual representation
		
Click to expand...


So offisde is not that cold a hard fact, who'd have thunk it eh lol


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 31, 2019)

fundy said:



			So offisde is not that cold a hard fact, who'd have thunk it eh lol
		
Click to expand...

Yeah but it’s dead easy from the comfort of the armchair 😉


----------



## Ye Olde Boomer (Dec 31, 2019)

Have fun talking about your round ball football, lads.  My New England Patriots' two decade run of excellent American football is coming to an end. Our quarterback is 42 and looking it, we had the worst looking 12-4 regular season in history, and the bookies are giving us no chance in the tournament to the Super Bowl.  

That would be tolerable if our Red Sox baseball team looked good for the coming spring and summer, but no luck there, either.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 31, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Apparently this is how the table would look without VAR:
Just for fun guys and girls, just for fun.
View attachment 28836

Click to expand...

There are various leagues like this about, so maybe we need a league of leagues as some have us as somewhere in the middle.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 31, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			This season’s league is probably the fairest one yet with very little wrong decisions leading to incorrect goals/pens given or not given where they should.
		
Click to expand...

Its weird isnt it, we win the league the first time that the refs are more accountable and honest.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 31, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Wasn’t there an argument in the City match over the TAA handball? Don’t know if that would of made a difference.

I’ve seen a few that you should of got, Mane away at Sheff Utd, but again, I don’t know if it affected the result.
		
Click to expand...

Firminho's chalked of goal at Villa, as well when they drew a dodgy line up to his armpit.

Whose to say that the city/TAA one wouldnt have had the pen rescinded as it hit Silva's hand before TAA's.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 31, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Firminho's chalked of goal at Villa, as well when they drew a dodgy line up to his armpit.

Whose to say that the city/TAA one wouldnt have had the pen rescinded as it hit Silva's hand before TAA's.
		
Click to expand...

it’s the little things, remember from last season, 😂😂😂


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 31, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Firminho's chalked of goal at Villa, as well when they drew a dodgy line up to his armpit.

Whose to say that the city/TAA one wouldnt have had the pen rescinded as it hit Silva's hand before TAA's.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly, that’s why I said I take all these, woulda/shoulda/coulda tables with a pinch of salt.


----------



## robinthehood (Dec 31, 2019)

fundy said:



			So offisde is not that cold a hard fact, who'd have thunk it eh lol
		
Click to expand...

Offside  is 100% a cold hard fact. youre either offside or not

The system the VAR team use is not 100 correct all the time, but its doesn't state that it is.
Linesman/Assistant refs are not 100% accurate either --  and compared to VAR they are so much worse.
Hawkeye GLT is not 100% accurate but no ones gets in  tiz when that overrules a goal by a few MM.
Much more could have been done to educate people on what to expect this year, it also needs to be much much faster and probably do away with showing us the lines being drawn.
I think maybe we need a time limit after which the original decisions stands if var cant work it out.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 31, 2019)

VAR is certainly giving people on Twitter something to argue over 😂


----------



## clubchamp98 (Dec 31, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			it’s the little things, remember from last season, 😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

You must have blinked when Mousset scored for Sheffield at the weekend.

Ederson attacking another striker.
Mane was innocent.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 31, 2019)




----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 31, 2019)

Bobby Madley, ex-PL Referee gives the reason for his dismissal.
Very good read.

https://therefereesword.blogspot.com/2019/12/time-to-move-on.html


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 31, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			You must have blinked when Mousset scored for Sheffield at the weekend.

Ederson attacking another striker.
Mane was innocent.

Click to expand...

I was there, I had me little meltdown over VAR again. 🤔😖😁 happy new year CC 👍


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 31, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			it’s the little things, remember from last season, 😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Yep, the Kyle Walker blatant Handball against spurs  that was missed by Oliver 😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 31, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Bobby Madley, ex-PL Referee gives the reason for his dismissal.
Very good read.

https://therefereesword.blogspot.com/2019/12/time-to-move-on.html

Click to expand...

I’m not condoning what he done but I think it’s a bit harsh the way he’s lost his job. Surely an apology, final warning and a couple of weeks rest would’ve been sufficient.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 31, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I’m not condoning what he done but I think it’s a bit harsh the way he’s lost his job. Surely an apology, final warning and a couple of weeks rest would’ve been sufficient.
		
Click to expand...

I agree with this. How many of us on here have told a joke that could be considered in the same light as what he has done? I would suggest that it would be a very high percentage.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 31, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I’m not condoning what he done but I think it’s a bit harsh the way he’s lost his job. Surely an apology, final warning and a couple of weeks rest would’ve been sufficient.
		
Click to expand...

Me neither, quite shocked how they handled it!


----------



## Papas1982 (Dec 31, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I’m not condoning what he done but I think it’s a bit harsh the way he’s lost his job. Surely an apology, final warning and a couple of weeks rest would’ve been sufficient.
		
Click to expand...

I'm kinda of the same thinking. The problem is, he's a ref. They're the least popular people in footy. I reckon there'd have been uproar if they announced what he'd done and then only suspended him. 

I mean be an actual footy player and you can mock disabled, spit at people, drink drive, even manslaughter and still keep a job in the industry....


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 31, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Me neither, quite shocked how they handled it!
		
Click to expand...

I’m genuinely not.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 31, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I'm kinda of the same thinking. The problem is, he's a ref. They're the least popular people in footy. I reckon there'd have been uproar if they announced what he'd done and then only suspended him.

I mean be an actual footy player and you can mock disabled, spit at people, drink drive, even manslaughter and still keep a job in the industry....
		
Click to expand...

I think the issue is nowadays ,generally, any organisation needs to be seen to be “doing the right thing” which more often than not is an over reaction.

That said if the rumours are true about him and his canine friend he deserves it.....


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 31, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			I agree with this. How many of us on here have told a joke that could be considered in the same light as what he has done? I would suggest that it would be a very high percentage.
		
Click to expand...

Many times no doubt. It was a “friend “ whose blabbed as a bit of a revenge mission. These factors should’ve been taken into account imo. Let the match going fans rinse him for a while, though the armchair telly clappers wouldn’t be happy their not being fairly treated 😊😊😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 31, 2019)

Liverbirdie said:



			Its weird isnt it, we win the league the first time that the refs are more accountable and honest. 

Click to expand...

I’m enjoying the excuses being made on Twitter, it’s hilarious. The funniest thing is these loonies actually believe what they’re typing 😁😁 

That lot on the Bluemoon forum aren’t taking it very well, accusations of back handers/use of steds/PL corruption 😂


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Its weird isnt it, we win the league the first time that the refs are more accountable and honest. 

Click to expand...

Yeah it’s like the world really as been against you all along 🙄


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I’m enjoying the excuses being made on Twitter, it’s hilarious. The funniest thing is these loonies actually believe what they’re typing 😁😁

That lot on the Bluemoon forum aren’t taking it very well, accusations of back handers/use of steds/PL corruption 😂
		
Click to expand...

Why would a Liverpool fan be on a City forum 🤔 I honestly could not imagine myself visiting a Utd site. There are more balanced sites than bluemoon if your a secret City fan 😁


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 1, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Why would a Liverpool fan be on a City forum 🤔 I honestly could not imagine myself visiting a Utd site. There are more balanced sites than bluemoon if your a secret City fan 😁
		
Click to expand...

RAWK is absolutely hilarious. You should check it out.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Why would a Liverpool fan be on a City forum 🤔 I honestly could not imagine myself visiting a Utd site. There are more balanced sites than bluemoon if your a secret City fan 😁
		
Click to expand...

Somebody posted a link to it somewhere else, I had to have a look and thought it was hilarious😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			RAWK is absolutely hilarious. You should check it out.
		
Click to expand...

Nah RAWK is the epitome of armchair fans, most wouldn’t know how to get to Anfield 😉


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Somebody posted a link to it somewhere else, I had to have a look and thought it was hilarious😂
		
Click to expand...

Al bet you have a 50/50City Liverpool scarf 😍


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Al bet you have a 50/50City Liverpool scarf 😍
		
Click to expand...

You’ve lost yer bet. Never in my life have  I had one neither, in fact  I don’t have any official merchandise. They’re for the tourists 😉


----------



## robinthehood (Jan 1, 2020)

Jack grealish has goal ruled offside by a shoelace. I bet Twitter is in meltdown.
😂😂


----------



## Fish (Jan 1, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Jack grealish has goal ruled offside by a shoelace. I bet Twitter is in meltdown.
😂😂
		
Click to expand...

it is, it’s the worse decision yet!


----------



## Slime (Jan 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			it is, it’s the worse decision yet!

View attachment 28852

Click to expand...


Clear and obvious advantage .......................................... my arse!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 1, 2020)

So 2 days after a bloke in charge of implementing VAR at fifa, could have been UEFA, stated that var should not be used for forensic decisions it gets used for a forensic decision 🤔.


----------



## Beezerk (Jan 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			it is, it’s the worse decision yet!

View attachment 28852

Click to expand...

I'm waiting for the first "offside by the length of his penis" shot


----------



## Fish (Jan 1, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			I'm waiting for the first "offside by the length of his penis" shot 

Click to expand...

i could end up waaaay offside then 😏


----------



## robinthehood (Jan 1, 2020)

Slime said:



			Clear and obvious advantage .......................................... my arse!
		
Click to expand...

That's something you just made up....


----------



## robinthehood (Jan 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			i could end up waaaay offside then 😏
		
Click to expand...

😂😂


----------



## robinthehood (Jan 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			So 2 days after a bloke in charge of implementing VAR at fifa, could have been UEFA, stated that var should not be used for forensic decisions it gets used for a forensic decision 🤔.
		
Click to expand...

What do you do though. Offside is binary either on or off, unless there is a change to the law.
Even then I can't really see how it would change.


----------



## Robin Hood (Jan 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			it is, it’s the worse decision yet!

View attachment 28852

Click to expand...

Let me start by saying that I like VAR.
HOWEVER:
Decisions like this are killing the game.
THE ANSWER:
If you have to draw the line, to make the decision, then it's not offside.


----------



## Fish (Jan 1, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			What do you do though. Offside is binary either on or off, unless there is a change to the law.
Even then I can't really see how it would change.
		
Click to expand...

remove the ‘lines’ analysis and replace it with the ref going to a screen pitch side to watch it in slow motion so he can watch it unfold and give a decision based on all the elements leading up to the goal or foul or incident that he then has to substantiate over the mike. This line analysis is just wrong, even though it’s getting the decisions right per se, it’s just too clinical imo.


----------



## robinthehood (Jan 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			remove the ‘lines’ analysis and replace it with the ref going to a screen pitch side to watch it in slow motion so he can watch it unfold and give a decision based on all the elements leading up to the goal or foul or incident that he then has to substantiate over the mike. This line analysis is just wrong, even though it’s getting the decisions right per se, it’s just too clinical imo.
		
Click to expand...

I'd agree we don't need to see the analysis and I know in other leagues they don't show it. Has to be much quicker too.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 1, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			I'd agree we don't need to see the analysis and I know in other leagues they don't show it. Has to be much quicker too.
		
Click to expand...

As stated the other day, other Leagues are 1 season ahead of us and the Bundesliga in particular have brought in lines this season after controversy last season when they didn’t use them, apparently other leagues La Liga, Serie A are already using the line technology.


----------



## robinthehood (Jan 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			As stated the other day, other Leagues are 1 season ahead of us and the Bundesliga in particular have brought in lines this season after controversy last season when they didn’t use them, apparently other leagues La Liga, Serie A are already using the line technology.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not fussed either way. 
Anyone would think  Marginal decisions havnt always existed. 
Just seems like people are unhappy now they re shown them being worked out.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 1, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			I'm not fussed either way.
Anyone would think  Marginal decisions havnt always existed.
Just seems like people are unhappy now they re shown them being worked out.
		
Click to expand...

Would be easier if they did it like Rugby Union, guy in a booth in having a close look, not clear and obvious, go with on field decision, all this trigonometry rubbish needs binning.


----------



## robinthehood (Jan 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Would be easier if they did it like Rugby Union, guy in a booth in having a close look, not clear and obvious, go with on field decision, all this trigonometry rubbish needs binning.
		
Click to expand...

Why should we have to start using the clear and obvious check ? That will just open up even more problems I think. 
A lot more should have been done to educate everyone on what to expect this season  with regards to offsides.
It's quite clear from this thread a lot of people don't understand the offside rule or how the premier league are using VAR


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 1, 2020)

callum hudson-odoi must have the world's best agent. 180k a week?!!


----------



## Fish (Jan 1, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			callum hudson-odoi must have the world's best agent. 180k a week?!!
		
Click to expand...

He has a great future and is clearly talented, back from a lengthy bad injury, why not agree terms, we’ve let players go before and they’ve developed elsewhere to become much better and then we’ve missed out, so why not secure the young talent with a decent wage for the next 5yrs.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 1, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Why should we have to start using the clear and obvious check ? That will just open up even more problems I think.
A lot more should have been done to educate everyone on what to expect this season  with regards to offsides.
It's quite clear from this thread a lot of people don't understand the offside rule or how the premier league are using VAR
		
Click to expand...

I perfectly understand the Offside Rule thanks, but when a footballer moves faster than the fps rate on a screen, then it’s flawed.
Until the time we have technology that can accurately freeze the action, Offside Decisions, either way, are being called wrong, so, imo, simply go with the mark 1 eyeball.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			He has a great future and is clearly talented, back from a lengthy bad injury, why not agree terms, we’ve let players go before and they’ve developed elsewhere to become much better and then we’ve missed out, so why not secure the young talent with a decent wage for the next 5yrs.
		
Click to expand...

Decent wage?!! 

I obv don't watch him often. But I've not seen a game yet where I'd have thought 180k was just. 

The problem now could be, how much do you need to pay Tammy? He's having a clearly better season and apparently not been offered the same dort of money. 

Re you letting players go in the past. The only 3 I can think of, are more to due with Mourinhs treatment of them, as opposed to paying them crazy money.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 1, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			I'm waiting for the first "offside by the length of his penis" shot 

Click to expand...

Good job ave hung me boots up. Lukaku  has an obvious disadvantage 🤔


----------



## fundy (Jan 1, 2020)

2nd yellows for Chelsea players still not allowed I see lol


----------



## robinthehood (Jan 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I perfectly understand the Offside Rule thanks, but when a footballer moves faster than the fps rate on a screen, then it’s flawed.
Until the time we have technology that can accurately freeze the action, Offside Decisions, either way, are being called wrong, so, imo, simply go with the mark 1 eyeball.
		
Click to expand...

I never said you didn't,  just many don't.
But they have always been called wrong often by the tiniest of margins, if the outrage is at the clinicalness of VAR then  all this frame rate stuff is nonsense.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 1, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			I never said you didn't,  just many don't.
But they have always been called wrong often by the tiniest of margins, if the outrage is at the clinicalness of VAR then  all this frame rate stuff is nonsense.
		
Click to expand...

To me it’s more the fact they are calling offside by mm’s, yet they seem happy for a player to steal yards when taking a free kick or a throw-in, which at times leads to a goal.

Either the game needs that level of accuracy or it doesn’t and if it does, then apply it for all 90 minutes.

Picking and choosing when VAR can be used is not helping.


----------



## Reemul (Jan 1, 2020)

I think it is unreasonable to expect an attackeing player to look 30 yards along the line and realise the tip of his elbow is offside.. It needs to be about the player making the judgement he is on or off and currently he cannot. We have frame issues, margin of error on top the pace of the game.

The rules need a little tweak imo. Either (as mentioned by Souness) fi any part of the player is on side he is still on side or it's feet only. Either would reduce the incidents somewhat, I prefer the Souness one.


----------



## robinthehood (Jan 1, 2020)

Reemul said:



			I think it is unreasonable to expect an attackeing player to look 30 yards along the line and realise the tip of his elbow is offside.. It needs to be about the player making the judgement he is on or off and currently he cannot. We have frame issues, margin of error on top the pace of the game.

The rules need a little tweak imo. Either (as mentioned by Souness) fi any part of the player is on side he is still on side or it's feet only. Either would reduce the incidents somewhat, I prefer the Souness one.
		
Click to expand...

Your elbow can't be offside.
Souness etc are just moving the lines somewhere else.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 1, 2020)

Q2: Are a player’s arms/hands considered as part of the player’s body when judging offside?
The hands or arms are not included when judging offside position; this is true for all players including the goalkeepers. *This view is supported by and helps assistant referees throughout the world as it is often difficult to identify the exact position of the hands and arms.*

so it is difficult to identifly the exact position of the hands and arms when calling offside but not the rest of the body which causes a player to be offside.
coz it’s Christmas, lets play A game of charades to form an opinion on that FA statement.

there in a bag between your legs and are useless once you have had a vasectomy.


----------



## Ye Olde Boomer (Jan 1, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



View attachment 28848

Click to expand...

A reminder: 2020 is the LAST year of a decade, not the first.
You can't imagine the number of people here in America who celebrated the dawn of a new millennium one year early in 2000.


----------



## Fish (Jan 1, 2020)

Spurs fans sing 'Harry Kane he's one of our own' as he limps off having pulled his hamstring.

Meanwhile, VAR checks the Kane's 'goal' scored as he injured himself.

VAR rules offside.

Saints fans sing 'VAR he's one of our own' 😜😂😂

Mourinho's then gets booked 😜😂😂

if Carlsberg did New Year’s Day fixtures 😏


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 1, 2020)

What a cracking Xmas period!


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2020)

If there’s one decision that sums VAR up its that one in the villa game. Bin it and forget about VAR


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 1, 2020)

Jose’s done a “Jose” 
That didn’t take long 😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



Q2: Are a player’s arms/hands considered as part of the player’s body when judging offside?
The hands or arms are not included when judging offside position; this is true for all players including the goalkeepers. *This view is supported by and helps assistant referees throughout the world as it is often difficult to identify the exact position of the hands and arms.*

so it is difficult to identifly the exact position of the hands and arms when calling offside but not the rest of the body which causes a player to be offside.
coz it’s Christmas, lets play A game of charades to form an opinion on that FA statement.

there in a bag between your legs and are useless once you have had a vasectomy.
		
Click to expand...

Catheter?

😊


----------



## Fish (Jan 1, 2020)

Well both Wolves & Spurs fail to take advantage of our 1 point away to Brighton, now only Manure can close the gap, but they’re away to Arsenal, which is impossible to predict 🤔

Is the fixture list too much in this festive period, are there too many games in such a short period of time, especially when you think we start in August but don’t play any midweek games in that month 🤔


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 1, 2020)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			A reminder: 2020 is the LAST year of a decade, not the first.
You can't imagine the number of people here in America who celebrated the dawn of a new millennium one year early in 2000.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t think it’ll take long until your old username is revealed.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			Well both Wolves & Spurs fail to take advantage of our 1 point away to Brighton, now only Manure can close the gap, but they’re away to Arsenal, which is impossible to predict 🤔

Is the fixture list too much in this festive period, are there too many games in such a short period of time, especially when you think we start in August but don’t play any midweek games in that month 🤔
		
Click to expand...

Nope. 

Keep it as it is. 

Rotate your squads and accept you may have issues along the way.


----------



## Slime (Jan 1, 2020)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			A reminder: 2020 is the LAST year of a decade, not the first.
You can't imagine the number of people here in America who celebrated the dawn of a new millennium one year early in 2000.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely.
The trouble I had explaining this to people back in 2000 was ridiculous.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			Well both Wolves & Spurs fail to take advantage of our 1 point away to Brighton, now only Manure can close the gap, but they’re away to Arsenal, which is impossible to predict 🤔

Is the fixture list too much in this festive period, are there too many games in such a short period of time, especially when you think we start in August but don’t play any midweek games in that month 🤔
		
Click to expand...

I like the xmas period fixtures, although no-one should have to play within 48 hours, a rest week should be in January after FA cup 3rd round, when everyone is skint.

Either get rid of all international friendlies, reduce them, or play all international fixtures in 5-6 week periods, so that the international managers have to "manage" their players (including rest periods).

BTW the "top six" clubs are shocking this year, sort yerselves out, be giving us a bad name.


----------



## Ye Olde Boomer (Jan 1, 2020)

The association rules football teams (or sides) don't necessarily follow our American naming protocol of.... city or region name / team nickname.
For example, I root for the Boston Red Sox baseball team and the New England Patriots (American) football team.
Thus, I'm not sure where all the PL teams call home.
I think that London has about four teams, but I don't know who they are.  Liverpool and the two Manchester teams make it easier for us.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I like the xmas period fixtures, although no-one should have to play within 48 hours, a rest week should be in January after FA cup 3rd round, when everyone is skint.

Either get rid of all international friendlies, reduce them, or play all international fixtures in 5-6 week periods, so that the international managers have to "manage" their players (including rest periods).

BTW the "top six" clubs are shocking this year, sort yerselves out, be giving us a bad name. 

Click to expand...

Certainly a lot of empty seats at City today - it is a lot of games over a short period but it’s always been that way and it’s great to watchn


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Certainly a lot of empty seats at City today - it is a lot of games over a short period but it’s always been that way and it’s great to watchn
		
Click to expand...

Great to be at, as well.


----------



## Fish (Jan 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I like the xmas period fixtures, although no-one should have to play within 48 hours, a rest week should be in January after FA cup 3rd round, when everyone is skint.

Either get rid of all international friendlies, reduce them, or play all international fixtures in 5-6 week periods, so that the international managers have to "manage" their players (including rest periods).

BTW the "top six" clubs are shocking this year, sort yerselves out, be giving us a bad name. 

Click to expand...

I think we’re the only team/club that can say we’ve got a valid excuse for struggling, losing your best player and not being in any position to strengthen was always going to be a tough gig, so even though we’ve been seen to throw points away, we just don’t have the substance or stamina or a game changer to pull us through.

however, managing to punch above our weight for so long and be where we are, with a few good signings in this window , that’s if Frank gets those right, we could push on and secure our top 4 spot.


----------



## fundy (Jan 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			I think we’re the only team/club that can say we’ve got a valid excuse for struggling, losing your best player and not being in any position to strengthen was always going to be a tough gig, so even though we’ve been seen to throw points away, we just don’t have the substance or stamina or a game changer to pull us through.

however, managing to punch above our weight for so long and be where we are, with a few good signings in this window , that’s if Frank gets those right, we could push on and secure our top 4 spot.
		
Click to expand...


lololololololol we broke the rules and got punished for it is the only valid excuse?


----------



## Fish (Jan 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			lololololololol we broke the rules and got punished for it is the only valid excuse?
		
Click to expand...

maybe you should have done the same, you’d probably be higher than you are now, without sideshow Bob 😜😂😂


----------



## Fish (Jan 1, 2020)

Well Moyes has got off to a flyer.......


----------



## fundy (Jan 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			maybe you should have done the same, you’d probably be higher than you are now, without sideshow Bob 😜😂😂
		
Click to expand...

just one of a very long list of issues, we dont have one valid excuse we have about 16 of them


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 1, 2020)

Turns out Ancelotti can’t work miracles. Absolutely dire performance so far this, been so bad.


----------



## Fish (Jan 1, 2020)

Jose quote: 

‘I deserved the yellow card because I was rude, but I was rude to an idiot’ 😳😜😂😂


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 1, 2020)

Jesus, that's pathetic.


----------



## Fish (Jan 1, 2020)

jobr1850 said:



			Loved the Xmas period, 10 points from a possible 12.
		
Click to expand...

Will it be enough to save you though, it’s a good bundle and you needed it, but.....


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			Well Moyes has got off to a flyer.......
		
Click to expand...

We finally are seeing his follow up to winning 3-1 at home last game of the season

Very long back to back wins


----------



## Fish (Jan 1, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			We finally are seeing his follow up to winning 3-1 at home last game of the season

Very long back to back wins
		
Click to expand...

Why only the 18 month contract?


----------



## fundy (Jan 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			Why only the 18 month contract?
		
Click to expand...


saves on the pay off, not every club can afford to keep paying em off like Roman does


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			Why only the 18 month contract?
		
Click to expand...

12 months longer than last time


----------



## Fish (Jan 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			saves on the pay off, not every club can afford to keep paying em off like Roman does 

Click to expand...

But Moyes was in the driving seat, they didn’t have a huge choice, surely 3 years is pretty standard, inherit players, stay safe, buy & shift players then be judged, bit short 18mths.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			But Moyes was in the driving seat, they didn’t have a huge choice, surely 3 years is pretty standard, inherit players, stay safe, buy & shift players then be judged, bit short 18mths.
		
Click to expand...

The board wanted 6 again Moyes pushed this time for 18 months 

He hardly worked in years his stock ain't high

But he works for us

He has a vastly improved squad from before and it showed tonight he got them running for everything


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 1, 2020)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			The association rules football teams (or sides) don't necessarily follow our American naming protocol of.... city or region name / team nickname.
For example, I root for the Boston Red Sox baseball team and the New England Patriots (American) football team.
Thus, I'm not sure where all the PL teams call home.
I think that London has about four teams, but I don't know who they are.  Liverpool and the two Manchester teams make it easier for us.
		
Click to expand...

Only one team from Manchester, ( City) the other is from Salford (United). which is a neighbouring City. There fans are from London 😁👍
Had a fantastic 5 days in Boston, just loved it and did fenway park. Gutted the Pat's were away at Baltimore. So had to settle seeing the Pat's play at Wembley.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I like the xmas period fixtures, although no-one should have to play within 48 hours, a rest week should be in January after FA cup 3rd round, when everyone is skint.

Either get rid of all international friendlies, reduce them, or play all international fixtures in 5-6 week periods, so that the international managers have to "manage" their players (including rest periods).

BTW the "top six" clubs are shocking this year, sort yerselves out, be giving us a bad name. 

Click to expand...

nah don’t worry about the top six, when you win it, we can say the rest of the league was crap this year like when Leicester won it. Then convince ourselves you didn’t really win it coz everyone else lost it. So it don’t really count 👍😁


----------



## Piece (Jan 1, 2020)

jobr1850 said:



			Loved the Xmas period, 10 points from a possible 12.
		
Click to expand...

and the M25 was empty! Great day all around. 😎


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			Will it be enough to save you though, it’s a good bundle and you needed it, but.....
		
Click to expand...

I think it will, they were excellent against us the other week. Play like that and they stay up


----------



## Piece (Jan 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I think it will, they were excellent against us the other week. Play like that and they stay up
		
Click to expand...

Agree. Keep playing like we have over the last 5 games and it’s not even a debate. We may even finish a game with 11 😆


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 1, 2020)

Stupid time for a game of footy.

Nice goal though.


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 1, 2020)

Nice dive from Rashford. Classy.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 1, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			The board wanted 6 again Moyes pushed this time for 18 months 

He hardly worked in years his stock ain't high

But he works for us

He has a vastly improved squad from before and it showed tonight he got them running for everything
		
Click to expand...

I suspect he will be on a big bonus for keeping you up this year. After that if he does well then they will extend his contract, why wouldn't they? If he doesn't do well then he can't complain if the board get someone else in. 

I think your opening lines make sense, it makes sense all round to me.


----------



## Fish (Jan 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Stupid time for a game of footy.

Nice goal though.
		
Click to expand...

An Arsenal win is best for us, keeps a 5 point margin between 4th & 5th, but I’m not getting my hopes up just yet, stick 2 or 3 more in and I’ll relax, otherwise it’s tenterhooks until the final whistle.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Stupid time for a game of footy.

Nice goal though.
		
Click to expand...

Shocking defending from the best back 4 in the PL 🤭🤭


----------



## fundy (Jan 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			An Arsenal win is best for us, keeps a 5 point margin between 4th & 5th, but I’m not getting my hopes up just yet, stick 2 or 3 more in and I’ll relax, otherwise it’s tenterhooks until the final whistle.
		
Click to expand...


i guess we played "what best for chelsea" the last 15 minutes the other day i expect you think we'll do it every week now


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 1, 2020)

I am beginning to think yellows don't exist for Utd. This is getting daft.

Why is that not a pen? Maguire has his arms around Lacas neck.


----------



## Fish (Jan 1, 2020)

So what’s the story with Pogba being out for a few weeks, again, has he a few more party’s to go and dance at.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 1, 2020)

Quality first half from Arsenal. Best I've seen them play as a team all season. That said United look really flat


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 1, 2020)

Nice scrappy 2nd goal. Will take that quite happily.


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 1, 2020)

I think Arsenal will tire in the 2nd half, but the 1st half has been excellent.


----------



## fundy (Jan 1, 2020)

2-0 the least we deserved at half time, some really encouraging signs again. Far better structure and attitudes for sure, lets hope it continues 2nd half and onwards


----------



## Fish (Jan 1, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Quality first half from Arsenal. Best I've seen them play as a team all season. That said United look really flat
		
Click to expand...

Kiss of death 😳🙁


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			So what’s the story with Pogba being out for a few weeks, again, has he a few more party’s to go and dance at.
		
Click to expand...

Him and ravel mrrrision used to be great together at youth level... Maybe deep down their attuide to work has always been the same.

Completely unprofessional


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 1, 2020)

I am certainly liking what Arteta has achieved, in a very limited time frame. A much better style of play, and more comittment and agression from the players.


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 1, 2020)

You know you're bad when you make arsenal look good 😉


----------



## Slime (Jan 1, 2020)

Absolutely shameful performance so far.
My God we need some midfield reinforcements in this window.
Doubt that'll happen with Woodward in control, sucking up to the Glazers.
I feel sorry for OGS, he's totally hamstrung and his best player is a complete ****.
The sooner Pogba's gone, the better.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2020)

Slime said:



			Absolutely shameful performance so far.
My God we need some midfield reinforcements in this window.
Doubt that'll happen with Woodward in control, sucking up to the Glazers.
I feel sorry for OGS, he's totally hamstrung and his best player is a complete ****.
The sooner Pogba's gone, the better.
		
Click to expand...

Has it ever occurred to you OGS could be the problem?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			I think we’re the only team/club that can say we’ve got a valid excuse for struggling, losing your best player and not being in any position to strengthen was always going to be a tough gig, so even though we’ve been seen to throw points away, we just don’t have the substance or stamina or a game changer to pull us through.

however, managing to punch above our weight for so long and be where we are, with a few good signings in this window , that’s if Frank gets those right, we could push on and secure our top 4 spot.
		
Click to expand...

Maybees, but its a dying art for someone to coach his way out of it, rather than buying their way out of it.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Has it ever occurred to you OGS could be the problem?
		
Click to expand...

Combination of Woodward and OGS 

Both doing a grand job 👍


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I think the issue is nowadays ,generally, any organisation needs to be seen to be “doing the right thing” which more often than not is an over reaction.

That said if the rumours are true about him and his canine friend he deserves it.....
		
Click to expand...

His career has certainly gone to the dogs.......


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			His career has certainly gone to the dogs.......

Click to expand...

That’s woof that Ped 😀


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 1, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Him and ravel mrrrision used to be great together at youth level... Maybe deep down their attuide to work has always been the same.

Completely unprofessional
		
Click to expand...

Comparing Pogba with Morrison is typical hyperbolic nonsense.


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 1, 2020)

How has Fred not picked up a yellow yet?


----------



## fundy (Jan 1, 2020)

uh oh Lingaards off, we'll have to play against 11 now


----------



## GG26 (Jan 1, 2020)

A very comfortable win for Leicester today.  We look a great team, but looked totally average against Man City and Liverpool. Need to have more belief against the top teams.  Good gap opening up to 5th again.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 1, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Comparing Pogba with Morrison is typical hyperbolic nonsense.
		
Click to expand...

That may be but he has a massive attuide issue


----------



## fundy (Jan 1, 2020)

5.9 for Wan bissaka


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			I am certainly liking what Arteta has achieved, in a very limited time frame. A much better style of play, and more comittment and agression from the players.
		
Click to expand...

very surprised he was doubted, gutted he left City.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Has it ever occurred to you OGS could be the problem?
		
Click to expand...

I don’t blame OGS, I blame the clown that keeps setting the wrong manager on. That aside, long may it continue 😁


----------



## fundy (Jan 1, 2020)

some of arsenal dead on their feet here and the game opening right up


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2020)

GG26 said:



			A very comfortable win for Leicester today.  We look a great team, but looked totally average against Man City and Liverpool. Need to have more belief against the top teams.  Good gap opening up to 5th again.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t think Rodgers is strong enough tactically against the Very good sides.


----------



## Slime (Jan 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Has it ever occurred to you OGS could be the problem?
		
Click to expand...

No matter who was the manager, they'll not progress with Woodward and the Glazers.


----------



## Fish (Jan 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			some of arsenal dead on their feet here and the game opening right up
		
Click to expand...

I saw this in a few fixtures today, hence my question about multiple festive matches.


----------



## fundy (Jan 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			I saw this in a few fixtures today, hence my question about multiple festive matches.
		
Click to expand...

its only cos most of them havent put a shift in and suddenly are having to


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 1, 2020)

At least the Utd fans haven't got far to go to get home. Plenty of trains to Surrey tonight.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 1, 2020)

Arsenal held on really well despite several players out on their feet. Will Arteta bring players in? If they can produce this type of performance regularly the Arsenal faithful will be happy, they'll win regularly and players will realise they need to play for their places. Very good as much as United were poor. I wonder how toxic Pogba is behind the scenes for OGS but they definitely look short in so many areas


----------



## fundy (Jan 1, 2020)

Far better, feels like were getting our Arsenal back, a little at least

Good to see the effort/structure changes etc, a few coming back from injuries too (ceballos, holding, kolasinac)

Theres glimmers of hope again


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 1, 2020)

Much better performance, better structure, style, team work, effort. Fitness is lacking, and could do with some players coming back from injury. Quite a few were blowing at the end, but at least it shows they gave all they had.

Small beginnings, but something Arsenal can build on. Emery never got a performance like that.


----------



## paddyc (Jan 1, 2020)

Good to see the effort/structure changes etc, a few coming back from injuries too (ceballos, holding, kolasinac)

Theres glimmers of hope again [/QUOTE]


Yes get in there, kept quiet tonight as not wanting to tempt fate. best performance  of season, although i found myself shouting at Laca a few times who was very frustrating.hopefully its the start of a good run.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Wolf (Jan 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Much better performance, better structure, style, team work, effort. Fitness is lacking, and could do with some players coming back from injury. Quite a few were blowing at the end, but at least it shows they gave all they had.

Small beginnings, but something Arsenal can build on. Emery never got a performance like that.
		
Click to expand...

Think that sums our performance up perfectly. Shows the fitness training under Emery regime was lacking but so was the tactics. Arteta already has us moving in the right direction so very happy so far now just need some players back from injury and perhaps an addition or 2 to the squad..


----------



## Fish (Jan 1, 2020)

At this rate Sean might reappear, where is he anyway 🤔


----------



## Wolf (Jan 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			At this rate Sean might reappear, where is he anyway 🤔
		
Click to expand...

Where most trolls reside, probably under a bridge somewhere waiting for the Billy goat's gruff😂


----------



## SteveW86 (Jan 1, 2020)

Before OGS got the United job didn’t he say Pogba was the best midfielder player in the world and he would build his Utd team around him?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 1, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Before OGS got the United job didn’t he say Pogba was the best midfielder player in the world and he would build his Utd team around him?
		
Click to expand...

He repeated that the other week, just not build the team around him. Deluded.

He's not  even the best midfielder in Manchester.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 2, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			He repeated that the other week, just not build the team around him. Deluded.

He's not  even the best midfielder in Manchester.
		
Click to expand...

to be fair to OGS he is not the only ex “ pro” that has said that. There’s no doubting his ability, but like in golf the the most difficult 6 inches on the course/ football pitch is between his ears. Plus his agent, is his the same one that YaYa Toure had. Both are clowns.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 2, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			to be fair to OGS he is not the only ex “ pro” that has said that. There’s no doubting his ability, but like in golf the the most difficult 6 inches on the course/ football pitch is between his ears. Plus his agent, is his the same one that YaYa Toure had. Both are clowns.
		
Click to expand...

Theres no doubting his ability I think most would agree he's a talent but to call him best in the world is laughable.


----------



## Slime (Jan 2, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			At least the Utd fans haven't got far to go to get home. Plenty of trains to Surrey tonight.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 2, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I don’t think Rodgers is strong enough tactically against the Very good sides.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Slime (Jan 2, 2020)

I just don't get United.
A paper thin midfield with Pogba out for another month due to an ankle operation and McTominay out for several weeks and yet nothing appears to have been done regarding getting replacements in.
This was glaringly obvious, right from the start of the season, with full knowledge that a couple of injuries could capsize our season, yet we seem to be trying to sign a striker!
It's a simple question of priorities, and everyone can see where they lie.
Oh, and why can't we get a decent result against any of the crappier teams, (Watford, Newcastle, Arsenal etc.), yet do well against top six?
It's bonkers mental, that's what it is!


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 2, 2020)

Slime said:



			I just don't get United.
A paper thin midfield with Pogba out for another month due to an ankle operation and McTominay out for several weeks and yet nothing appears to have been done regarding getting replacements in.
This was glaringly obvious, right from the start of the season, with full knowledge that a couple of injuries could capsize our season, yet we seem to be trying to sign a striker!
It's a simple question of priorities, and everyone can see where they lie.
Oh, and why can't we get a decent result against any of the crappier teams, (Watford, Newcastle, Arsenal etc.), yet do well against top six?
It's bonkers mental, that's what it is!
		
Click to expand...

a couple of injuries could capsize your season? 🤣🤣🤣 you crazy fool (said in mr t voice)

Tbf tho, you did say you have the best back 5 in the country...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			a couple of injuries could capsize your season? 🤣🤣🤣 you crazy fool (said in mr t voice)

Tbf tho, *you did say you have the best back 5 in the country...*

Click to expand...

😂😂😂 ah yes I remember that


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 2, 2020)

Slime said:



			I just don't get United.
A paper thin midfield with Pogba out for another month due to an ankle operation and McTominay out for several weeks and yet nothing appears to have been done regarding getting replacements in.
This was glaringly obvious, right from the start of the season, with full knowledge that a couple of injuries could capsize our season, yet we seem to be trying to sign a striker!
It's a simple question of priorities, and everyone can see where they lie.
Oh, and why can't we get a decent result against any of the crappier teams, (Watford, Newcastle, Arsenal etc.), yet do well against top six?
It's bonkers mental, that's what it is!
		
Click to expand...

All we can do is counter attack. That works against good teams who have to attack us. When so called lesser teams sit in and force us to dictate play, we simply can’t do it.


----------



## Ye Olde Boomer (Jan 2, 2020)

United is Red and City is Blue, right?
I remember when watching the Ricky Hatton fights that his fans used to sing "_Blue Moon_."


----------



## Slime (Jan 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂😂 ah yes I remember that
		
Click to expand...

Yes, I thought you would.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2020)

Slime said:



			Yes, I thought you would. 

Click to expand...

Come on - it’s a good one 😉 It’s certainly one on the most expensive 👍


----------



## Slime (Jan 2, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			a couple of injuries could capsize your season? 🤣🤣🤣 you crazy fool (said in mr t voice)

Tbf tho, you did say you have the best back 5 in the country...
		
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter how good the defence and attack are, if there's no midfield you're done for.
The attack hardly sees the ball at the right time and the defence is under the cosh too much of the time.
Every successful team HAS to have a strong midfield ................... we haven't even got a weak one!
We're now down to Fred, that's it.
Lingard is poop, Mata is too slow, Matic is even slower, Pereira not as good as he thinks.
We HAVE to buy at least one and probably two midfielders this window.


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 2, 2020)

Slime said:



			It doesn't matter how good the defence and attack are, if there's no midfield you're done for.
The attack hardly sees the ball at the right time and the defence is under the cosh too much of the time.
Every successful team HAS to have a strong midfield ................... we haven't even got a weak one!
We're now down to Fred, that's it.
Lingard is poop, Mata is too slow, Matic is even slower, Pereira not as good as he thinks.
We HAVE to buy at least one and probably two midfielders this window.
		
Click to expand...

You’ve lost as many league games in 2020 as we did in the whole of 2019. I think you’re more than a couple of midfielders short


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2020)

Slime said:



			It doesn't matter how good the defence and attack are, if there's no midfield you're done for.
The attack hardly sees the ball at the right time and the defence is under the cosh too much of the time.
Every successful team HAS to have a strong midfield ................... we haven't even got a weak one!
We're now down to Fred, that's it.
Lingard is poop, Mata is too slow, Matic is even slower, Pereira not as good as he thinks.
We HAVE to buy at least one and probably two midfielders this window.
		
Click to expand...

Think UTD are getting to the stage that Liverpool were in during the 90’s and 00’s 

You need imo 

A CB , LB , three Centre Mids , a striker at the very minimum


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 2, 2020)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			United is Red and City is Blue, right?
I remember when watching the Ricky Hatton fights that his fans used to sing "_Blue Moon_."
		
Click to expand...

unfortunately Utd were once a massive team, but not now. Which coincides with Citeh now being massive but were once rammel like Utd now are.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Think UTD are getting to the stage that Liverpool were in during the 90’s and 00’s

You need imo

A CB , LB , three Centre Mids , a striker at the very minimum
		
Click to expand...

Where you were 3 seasons ago then


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 2, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			unfortunately Utd were once a massive team, but not now. Which coincides with Citeh now being massive but were once rammel like Utd now are.
		
Click to expand...

They are still a massive team, just a massive team going through a bad phase, every Club goes through phases, no one Club has dominated top flight football continually.

I don’t think they’ll drop to City’s rammel level.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 2, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t think they’ll drop to City’s rammel level. 

Click to expand...

We can only hope 😁


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2020)

Such an impressive performance- especially off the back of a heavy load of fixtures and suffering a lot of injuries. Clinical with a lot of control. The team won’t get the plaudits they deserve but it’s going to be close the best Prem team seen.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Such an impressive performance- especially off the back of a heavy load of fixtures and suffering a lot of injuries. Clinical with a lot of control. The team won’t get the plaudits they deserve but it’s going to be close the best Prem team seen.
		
Click to expand...

Think that's a little overhyped considering the standard of opposition. Put that level of dominance against City or another of the bigger sides and then I'd agree 100%. I do however think you could go on and emulate the invincibles


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Such an impressive performance- especially off the back of a heavy load of fixtures and suffering a lot of injuries. Clinical with a lot of control. The team won’t get the plaudits they deserve but it’s going to be close the best Prem team seen.
		
Click to expand...

They're getting loads of plaudits already.

Imo the best Premier league teams win more than one title in a row though. Wasn't there a start that had spurs as the top points scorers over a 3 year period? Whilst winning nowt. Fwiw I am sure you will win this season, But if you don't then for all the good football. Nobody is gonna call you the best pl team.

Arsenal have the invincibles, City the Centurions and UTD the proper treble winners. You can join them this year. But only. If you win it.


----------



## Wolf (Jan 2, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Think that's a little overhyped considering the standard of opposition. Put that level of dominance against City or another of the bigger sides and then I'd agree 100%*. I do however think you could go on and emulate the invincibles*

Click to expand...

Which would prove Phils point that thet coukd ve argued as one ofnthe best Prem teams ever seen. We had the invincibles and if they emulate that they'd be only the 2nd team in Premier league history to achieve that feat which imo looks better in the history books than a points tally thats high but includes a loss. It woukd show the coach and players at such a level they literally were unbeatable and thats going to go into the record books forever as arguably one of the greatest prem teams.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 2, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Which would prove Phils point that thet coukd ve argued as one ofnthe best Prem teams ever seen. We had the invincibles and if they emulate that they'd be only the 2nd team in Premier league history to achieve that feat which imo looks better in the history books than a points tally thats high but includes a loss. It woukd show the coach and players at such a level they literally were unbeatable and thats going to go into the record books forever as arguably one of the greatest prem teams.
		
Click to expand...

Tbf though, he claimed people were under playing Liverpool, which imo they aren’t. 

Also, if they go the whole season undefeated it’ll be with 100+ points. Most people I know rate city’s centurions as a better team than the ones who got 90.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



*Tbf though, he claimed people were under playing Liverpool, whisk imo they aren’t.*

Also, if they go the whole season undefeated it’ll be with 100+ points. I know I rate city’s centurions as a better team than the ones who go 90.
		
Click to expand...

Go on social media and there are literally posts all over the place with the same stuff - tainted title because of VAR , opposition weak , City injuries , lucky etc etc blah - they are under playing Liverpool - it’s not about how well we are playing it’s about how poorly others are playing.


----------



## Wolf (Jan 2, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbf though, he claimed people were under playing Liverpool, which imo they aren’t.

Also, if they go the whole season undefeated it’ll be with 100+ points. Most people I know rate city’s centurions as a better team than the ones who got 90.
		
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with your first point. But the second comes down to pure opinion, I'd rate any undefeated season above a high points tally but thats just my opinion. Id also rate Fergies 90sides above City's 100 point team for the sheer dominance in the league, like everything though its all a matter of personal opinion.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Go on social media and there are literally posts all over the place with the same stuff - tainted title because of VAR , opposition weak , City injuries , lucky etc etc blah - they are under playing Liverpool - it’s not about how well we are playing it’s about how poorly others are playing.
		
Click to expand...

Shock horror, fans of other clubs slagging you off. Just like when city win it’s because of the billions instead of respecting the great foot they still played. Or romans cash at Chelsea, or red nose owning refs.......

Actual football fans exist outside of social media and have imo much more realistic opinions. You’ll always find more bad online than good.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 2, 2020)

Wolf said:



			I don't disagree with your first point. But the second comes down to pure opinion, I'd rate any undefeated season above a high points tally but thats just my opinion. Id also rate Fergies 90sides above City's 100 point team for the sheer dominance in the league, like everything though its all a matter of personal opinion.
		
Click to expand...

I think undefeated may be a better achievement. The fact it’s only been done once makes it outstanding. 

I just wouldn’t say by default it makes the team better. I think if city had won this year then they’d imo be the greatest team as it would have been 3 years of close to 100 points. But that’s not gonna happen now.


----------



## Wolf (Jan 2, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Shock horror, fans of other clubs slagging you off. Just like when city win it’s because of the billions instead of respecting the great foot they still played. Or romans cash at Chelsea, or red nose owning refs.......

Actual football fans exist outside of social media and have imo much more realistic opinions. You’ll always find more bad online than good.
		
Click to expand...

Id agree with all of that. When Utd dominated the 90s many people slated ot saying it was because other teams were weak not because Utd were strong. Blackburn were accused of buying a title by many, Chelsea were accused of the same, then City as well. We were accused of luck and favourable referees when we went unbeaten. All Liverpool are experiencing now is the same thing other successful teams have, when your winning people from the outside want to knock you down, Liverpool fans instead of being frustrated at it should learn to embrace it because with success comes envy of others, enjoy the success while your at the top because if you can't then you'll always be bitter to others as well.

Edit: I should add Leicester were the same many knocked their title win saying it was because other teams were poor.. It doesn't matter what others say or do, title winning teams can only beat whats in front of them, others are just jealous and trying to justify why their team failed.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 2, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Id agree with all of that. When Utd dominated the 90s many people slated ot saying it was because other teams were weak not because Utd were strong. Blackburn were accused of buying a title by many, Chelsea were accused ofnthe same, then City as well. We were accised of luck and favourable referees when we went unbeaten. All Liverpool are experiencing now is the same thing other successful teams have, when your winning people from the outside want to knock you down, Liverpool fans instead of being frustrated at it should learn to embrace it because with success comes envy of others, enjoy the success while your at the top because if you can't then you'll always be bitter to others as well.
		
Click to expand...

Tbf I’m still disgusted that arsenal made me feel remotely sorry for Pompey when Pires won one of the dirtiest pens Ive ever seen. That being said, I’d not have wanted them to be the team that stopped ya!


----------



## 3offTheTee (Jan 2, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Id agree with all of that. When Utd dominated the 90s many people slated ot saying it was because other teams were weak not because Utd were strong. Blackburn were accused of buying a title by many, Chelsea were accused of the same, then City as well. We were accused of luck and favourable referees when we went unbeaten. All Liverpool are experiencing now is the same thing other successful teams have, when your winning people from the outside want to knock you down, Liverpool fans instead of being frustrated at it should learn to embrace it because with success comes envy of others, enjoy the success while your at the top because if you can't then you'll always be bitter to others as well.

Edit: I should add Leicester were the same many knocked their title win saying it was because other teams were poor.. It doesn't matter what others say or do, title winning teams can only beat whats in front of them, others are just jealous and trying to justify why their team failed.
		
Click to expand...

The season that ‘The Mighty Rovers’ Sorry ‘Once Mighty’ won the title, 25 years’ ago this year they spent LESS money than Man U that season. FACT


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 2, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbf *I’m still disgusted that arsenal made me feel remotely sorry for Pompey when Pires won one of the dirtiest pens Ive ever seen*. That being said, I’d not have wanted them to be the team that stopped ya!
		
Click to expand...

Youre not suggesting Titles have been won by players cheating are you? If only we'd had VAR then......

I forgot they'd had 12 draws that season


----------



## Wolf (Jan 2, 2020)

3offTheTee said:



			The season that ‘The Mighty Rovers’ Sorry ‘Once Mighty’ won the title, 25 years’ ago this year they spent LESS money than Man U that season. FACT
		
Click to expand...

Completely agree with you and well aware of that, yet there were still droves of fans saying they'd bought the title with their spending on Shearer, sutton and a few others. Even heard it mentioned recently on a talksport interview. No surprises many of those saying they'd bought the title were Utd fans. Proves my point though when someone is successful others try to find a way to shoot them down and belittle the accomplishments.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 2, 2020)

Another 3pts for the unbearables as the Klopp express rolls on. 

A very good performance against a well organised team who offer a threat.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 2, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Youre not suggesting Titles have been won by players cheating are you? If only we'd had VAR then......

I forgot they'd had 12 draws that season
		
Click to expand...

Like I said, it’s just one I recall due to the dirty feeling of sympathy I had for the blue shower.......

I’m sure a few other teams may have bent rules too. Before the mighty reds attempt to win the first honourable post var title......


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 2, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Another 3pts for the unbearables as the Klopp express rolls on.

A very good performance against a well organised team who offer a threat.
		
Click to expand...

Yes they made it very difficult,two nice goals though.
Very inconsistent of VAR ,pulling shirts was supposed to be a pen. (On VVD he may of scored )


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Completely agree with you and well aware of that, yet there were still droves of fans saying they'd bought the title with their spending on Shearer, sutton and a few others. Even heard it mentioned recently on a talksport interview. No surprises many of those saying they'd bought the title were Utd fans. Proves my point though when someone is successful others try to find a way to shoot them down and belittle the accomplishments.
		
Click to expand...

I have no doubt that when a team is successful they will get shot down by oppo fans - that’s expected but maybe it’s just me but last year every man and his dog eulogised over City ( apart from the rivals ) about the way they played - best ever team etc etc. 

I can’t quite put my finger on it but there just seems maybe resentment that we are currently doing well.


----------



## Wolf (Jan 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I have no doubt that when a team is successful they will get shot down by oppo fans - that’s expected but maybe it’s just me but last year every man and his dog eulogised over City ( apart from the rivals ) about the way they played - best ever team etc etc.

I can’t quite put my finger on it but there just seems maybe resentment that we are currently doing well.
		
Click to expand...

Your just describing exactly what ive said. Others being jealous of your success. You can't put your finger on it because as a fan of the club you're taking the criticism personally instead of objectively. You only see resentment because that's what you want to see and of course there's going to be some as others are jealous they're team isn't performing.

As for City last season they did play exceptional football that hasn't been seen before from English teams in many a year if ever. Even our invincibles didn't play football of that quality and nor have Liverpool this season, but what Liverpool have done this season is find a way to win games and get results where they couldn't before..


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 2, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Your just describing exactly what ive said. Others being jealous of your success. You can't put your finger on it because as a fan of the club you're taking the criticism personally instead of objectively. You only see resentment because that's what you want to see and of course there's going to be some as others are jealous they're team isn't performing.

As for City last season they did play exceptional football that hasn't been seen before from English teams in many a year if ever. Even our invincibles didn't play football of that quality and nor have Liverpool this season, but what Liverpool have done this season is find a way to win games and get results where they couldn't before..
		
Click to expand...

I’m not just talking about fans though - journos , pundits , sports presenters etc etc


----------



## Wolf (Jan 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I’m not just talking about fans though - journos , pundits , sports presenters etc etc
		
Click to expand...

What do you expect everyone to fawn over you. It just doesn't happen like that anymore, we live in a critical world. There is just as much good press and coverage as their is negative, but you seem to want to focus purely on the bad and want it all to be good. Pundits have a job to do and sometimes talking a team diwn or saying thungs favour Liverpool gets them their headlines. Is that any different to when the press coined the term "Fergietime" or Alan Hanson publicly live on air saying Utd won't win anything with kids. Its always happened to all teams and always will. You just take things very personally instead of objectively, no different to when someone on here doesn't fawn over Rory you defend him, yet have been known to slate Tiger. We all have that in use whether as fan's, media or players. People like to knock others to prove their own arguments right.


----------



## Ye Olde Boomer (Jan 3, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			unfortunately Utd were once a massive team, but not now. Which coincides with Citeh now being massive but were once rammel like Utd now are.
		
Click to expand...

I'm afraid that my Patriots are presently on the same trajectory.  It's been a great two decade run, though.  Now I'm going to Google "rammel."


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 3, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Think that's a little overhyped considering the standard of opposition. Put that level of dominance against City or another of the bigger sides and then I'd agree 100%. I do however think you could go on and emulate the invincibles
		
Click to expand...

How have you been let away with this? We’ve beaten every top side we’ve played! Stupidity is all around me 😢


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I’m not just talking about fans though - journos , pundits , sports presenters etc etc
		
Click to expand...

Why do you care? 🤷‍♂️


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 3, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			unfortunately Utd were once a massive team, but not now. Which coincides with Citeh now being massive but were once rammel like Utd now are.
		
Click to expand...

Tbf, this season yous are pretty rammel 😆 👍🏻


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I have no doubt that when a team is successful they will get shot down by oppo fans - that’s expected but maybe it’s just me but last year every man and his dog eulogised over City ( apart from the rivals ) about the way they played - best ever team etc etc.

I can’t quite put my finger on it but there just seems maybe resentment that we are currently doing well.
		
Click to expand...

Nah Phil its just you and your special specs.
You are as guilty as anyone for shooting down oppo teams. 
Have you not seen how much the media are creaming their pants over Liverpool?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Why do you care? 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Word.

Not only am I witnessing a great Livarpool side dominating games the bitterness,hatred, jealousy and  fume of rival fans trying to discredit our team is absolutely fantastic. 

Long may it continue.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			How have you been let away with this? We’ve beaten every top side we’ve played! Stupidity is all around me 😢
		
Click to expand...

It's just another contradictory post from Homer, unlike his his counterparts at least hes consistent.

The famous Mark Twain quote couldn't be any more appropriate here.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Word.

Not only am I witnessing a great Livarpool side dominating games the bitterness,hatred, jealousy and  fume of rival fans trying to discredit our team is absolutely fantastic.

Long may it continue.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely 100% agree.
No different to your attitude to other Clubs, all part of the fun and rivalry.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 3, 2020)

I’ve been really impressed with Liverpool this year and they will be deserving winners.
Getting 100 points is purely down to the weak opposition.
Over half the league have already lost at least half their games.
Utd are crap 
Arsenal have their worst team ever as have Utd
Chelsea in transition and losing big players.
City are rammel
Spurs are not title contenders 
All words I’ve heard on here and read from Liverpool fans.
The P/L has no strength in depth.
Enjoy your winning and titles it doesn’t last forever.
Life will go on and football will too way after we are gone.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			I’ve been really impressed with Lance Armstrong FC this year and they will be deserving winners.
Getting 100 points is purely down to the weak opposition.
Over half the league have already lost at least half their games.
Utd are crap
Arsenal have their worst team ever as have Utd
Chelsea in transition and losing big players.
City are rammel
Spurs are not title contenders
All words I’ve heard on here and read from Liverpool fans.
The P/L has no strength in depth.
Enjoy your winning and titles it doesn’t last forever.
Life will go on and football will too way after we are gone.
		
Click to expand...

Fixed that for you mate.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Why do you care? 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

I don’t think care is the right word mate - more just slightly annoying , this team is looking to be just as good as City and guess it’s just a little annoying to see the “but” at the end. Oh well 👍


----------



## Wolf (Jan 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don’t think care is the right word mate - more just slightly annoying , this team is looking to be just as good as City and guess it’s just a little annoying to see the “but” at the end. Oh well 👍
		
Click to expand...

But that's the thing Phil they aren't looking as good as City did, City played football that was just another level and more entertaining than Liverpool do. Thats not taking anything away from what Liverpool are currently doing but its a totally different style and works for Liverpool.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don’t think care is the right word mate - more just slightly annoying , this team is looking to be just as good as City and guess it’s just a little annoying to see the “but” at the end. Oh well 👍
		
Click to expand...

It might be slightly annoying for you,  imagine the hurt the rest of the country are going through with the thought of the Unbearables FC winning the league 😁😁

Enjoy it lad 😉


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It might be slightly annoying for you,  imagine the hurt the rest of the country are going through with the thought of the Lance Armstrong FC winning the league 😁😁

Enjoy it lad 😉
		
Click to expand...

Not hurt for all of us mate, some of us are old enough to remember the late 70’s & 80’s.
Obviously it’ll be a first for some of you lot.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			I’ve been really impressed with Liverpool this year and they will be deserving winners.
*Getting 100 points is purely down to the weak opposition.*
Over half the league have already lost at least half their games.
Utd are crap
Arsenal have their worst team ever as have Utd
Chelsea in transition and losing big players.
City are rammel
Spurs are not title contenders
All words I’ve heard on here and read from Liverpool fans.
The P/L has no strength in depth.
Enjoy your winning and titles it doesn’t last forever.
Life will go on and football will too way after we are gone.
		
Click to expand...

I can taste the bitterness 😁😁

If we win it and get the 100+pts it will be a massive achievement, just like when City done it.  19,23,25pts were the difference between 1st and 4th that season and on current form of the teams below, it wont be far off those points total. Most importantly though weve got to get the job done.

The league hasnt weakend, some teams have underperformed just like 2017 but that doesn't taint Citys achievement.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Not hurt for all of us mate, some of us are old enough to remember the late 70’s & 80’s.
Obviously it’ll be a first for some of you lot.

Click to expand...

Some of us were there!!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2020)

Wolf said:



			But that's the thing Phil they aren't looking as good as City did, City played football that was just another level and more entertaining than Liverpool do. Thats not taking anything away from what Liverpool are currently doing but its a totally different style and works for Liverpool.
		
Click to expand...

“Looking to *BE* as good  - ie the results 🙄 


Stuart_C said:



			It might be slightly annoying for you,  imagine the hurt the rest of the country are going through with the thought of the Unbearables FC winning the league 😁😁

Enjoy it lad 😉
		
Click to expand...

Oh it’s enjoyable and how great was Chris Wilders words in his press conference - impressive bloke 

I believe they may only give us half the trophy though - don’t deserve the other half 😉😂😂🤦‍♂️


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			“Looking to *BE* as good  - ie the results 🙄


Oh it’s enjoyable and how great was Chris Wilders words in his press conference - impressive bloke

I believe they may only give us half the trophy though - don’t deserve the other half 😉😂😂🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Well rather than just arguing the toss why not just enjoy the season 👍🏻.

You should be extremely proud of what YOUR 😉


----------



## Beezerk (Jan 3, 2020)

Wolf said:



			But that's the thing Phil they aren't looking as good as City did, City played football that was just another level and more entertaining than Liverpool do. Thats not taking anything away from what Liverpool are currently doing but its a totally different style and works for Liverpool.
		
Click to expand...

1-0 to the Liverpool, 1-0 to the Liverpool...😁


----------



## Wolf (Jan 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			“Looking to *BE* as good  - ie the results 🙄


Oh it’s enjoyable and how great was Chris Wilders words in his press conference - impressive bloke

I believe they may only give us half the trophy though - don’t deserve the other half 😉😂😂🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Your highlighting a single word and eye roll emoji just proves my point, you take it personally and believe your opinion is more valid than others who think different to you so cannot accept that even though Liverpool are doing well others will see the achievements differently. 

You think they're looking to be as good as city, i don't because city did it with a different style and more flair, thats my opinion. What Liverpool are doing is still great in their own right. Why as a Liverpool fan can you not accept that this is a great achievement in its own way, why do you need to compare it to City, why does it need to be as good as them. 

Surely you should be enjoying in its own right for what it is Liverpools best season in the PL instead of comparing it..


----------



## fundy (Jan 3, 2020)

Lets chuck some oil on the fire 

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...h-man-city-goals-score-fixtures-a9268531.html

Nice of them to do an open training session on live tv last night too


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Your highlighting a single word and eye roll emoji just proves my point, you take it personally and believe your opinion is more valid than others who think different to you so cannot accept that even though Liverpool are doing well others will see the achievements differently.

You think they're looking to be as good as city, i don't because city did it with a different style and more flair, thats my opinion. What Liverpool are doing is still great in their own right. *Why as a Liverpool fan can you not accept that this is a great achievement in its own way, why do you need to compare it to City, why does it need to be as good as them.*

Surely you should be enjoying in its own right for what it is Liverpools best season in the PL instead of comparing it..
		
Click to expand...

You appear to be reading far too much into everything - maybe just dial back a bit , less paragraphs better quality 

Ok - I made a simple comment that I don’t think the team will get the credit it deserves from many sources - from what I witness - it’s as simple as that. Nothing more - have a nice day enjoy the sun 👍


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I can taste the bitterness 😁😁

If we win it and get the 100+pts it will be a massive achievement, just like when City done it.  19,23,25pts were the difference between 1st and 4th that season and on current form of the teams below, it wont be far off those points total. Most importantly though weve got to get the job done.

The league hasnt weakend, some teams have underperformed just like 2017 but that doesn't taint Citys achievement.
		
Click to expand...

You keep convincing yourself Stu.
All the top teams apart from you are weaker I’m sure most people can see that.
Weaker teams equal weaker opposition equals a weaker league.
I’m not bitter I’m more than that.
That doesn’t take away the fact,and I’ve always said this Klopp has done a great job.
Liverpool are impressive and are playing good football.
It won’t last forever it never does.
You enjoy it as I’m sure you will it’s well deserved.


----------



## Wolf (Jan 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You appear to be reading far too much into everything - maybe just dial back a bit , less paragraphs better quality

Ok - I made a simple comment that I don’t think the team will get the credit it deserves from many sources - from what I witness - it’s as simple as that. Nothing more - have a nice day enjoy the sun 👍
		
Click to expand...

And there it is. The old Phil returns as usual a small back track rather than admit someone else has a valid point and then to go and state less paragraphs better quality.. 

Not reading to much into it, im directly quoting and replying to your posts.. Pot and kettle springs to mind. As always the Forum Ballotelli returns true to form #whyalwaysme or should i say #whysalwaysLP 👍


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Word.

Not only am I witnessing a great Livarpool side dominating games the bitterness,hatred, jealousy and  fume of rival fans trying to discredit our team is absolutely fantastic.

Long may it continue.
		
Click to expand...

not from me 👍


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2020)

Wolf said:



			But that's the thing Phil they aren't looking as good as City did, City played football that was just another level and more entertaining than Liverpool do. Thats not taking anything away from what Liverpool are currently doing but its a totally different style and works for Liverpool.
		
Click to expand...

Can we save this for the end of the season for when Liverpool have an extension on the trophy cabinet. I think it’s a good topic to discuss.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 3, 2020)

Wolf said:



			And there it is. The old Phil returns as usual a small back track rather than admit someone else has a valid point and then to go and state less paragraphs better quality..

Not reading to much into it, im directly quoting and replying to your posts.. Pot and kettle springs to mind. As always the Forum Ballotelli returns true to form #whyalwaysme or should i say #whysalwaysLP 👍
		
Click to expand...

You do have to wonder why he’s always in the middle of these “debates” as he likes to call them 😳😂


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Tbf, this season yous are pretty rammel 😆 👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

No we’re not, we’re playing our very best football ever, (gotta say that so it don’t demean Liverpool’s runaway title year )😁🤔😘


----------



## Wolf (Jan 3, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Can we save this for the end of the season for when Liverpool have an extension on the trophy cabinet. I think it’s a good topic to discuss.
		
Click to expand...

What's the point discussing anything then Tashy if have to wait till seasons end, doesnt change the style of football being played now which is being discussed. The discussion end of season would become more akin to is this Liverpool team as good as Utds 1999 team that won PL, CL & FA Cup, as they would have surpassed City's single season successes but again just my opinion. All discussions are valid at anytime people have to be willing to listen though.


----------



## Wolf (Jan 3, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			You do have to wonder why he’s always in the middle of these “debates” as he likes to call them 😳😂
		
Click to expand...

I refer back to my hashtags 😂
I think we know the answer though...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2020)

Wolf said:



			And there it is. The old Phil returns as usual a small back track rather than admit someone else has a valid point and then to go and state less paragraphs better quality..

Not reading to much into it, im directly quoting and replying to your posts.. Pot and kettle springs to mind. As always the Forum Ballotelli returns true to form #whyalwaysme or should i say #whysalwaysLP 👍
		
Click to expand...

Far from it 

My comment about being as good as City was in regards the level of the results and the success - you started going on about style of play etc , I never mentioned anything about style of play ( hence why I believe you were going into it too much )

I don’t care what the style is , it’s about the results and right now we are very close to being the best start the league has seen ( irrelevant of style ) - that puts the team “at the moment” up with anything seen in the league 

You do have a valid point in regards how fans see the team etc - I don’t recall saying you didn’t 

it’s a simple thought- I don’t think the current Liverpool team will get as much credit as they possibly imo deserve when over the years other teams have been eulogiesed - just what I see on social media , in websites , phones in etc . It was just a throw away comment that I certainly didn’t expect the reaction 

I’m loving the season - it’s great to watch , I think the way the team play is superb and above all the level of fitness imo is something never seen before even more so when considering the level of injuries we have ( which are quite significant right now )


----------



## Wolf (Jan 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Far from it

My comment about being as good as City was in regards the level of the results and the success - you started going on about style of play etc , I never mentioned anything about style of play ( hence why I believe you were going into it too much )

I don’t care what the style is , it’s about the results and right now we are very close to being the best start the league has seen ( irrelevant of style ) - that puts the team “at the moment” up with anything seen in the league

You do have a valid point in regards how fans see the team etc - I don’t recall saying you didn’t

it’s a simple thought- I don’t think the current Liverpool team will get as much credit as they possibly imo deserve when over the years other teams have been eulogiesed - just what I see on social media , in websites , phones in etc . It was just a throw away comment that I certainly didn’t expect the reaction

I’m loving the season - it’s great to watch , I think the way the team play is superb and above all the level of fitness imo is something never seen before even more so when considering the level of injuries we have ( which are quite significant right now )
		
Click to expand...

Sorry Phil didn't get to the end of those paragraphs... What was it you said try less paragraphs better quality 🤷🏻‍♂️..... 

For the record its called opinion thats why I mentioned style because thats part of my opinion.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			You keep convincing yourself Stu.
All the top teams apart from you are weaker I’m sure most people can see that.
Weaker teams equal weaker opposition equals a weaker league.
I’m not bitter I’m more than that.
That doesn’t take away the fact,and I’ve always said this Klopp has done a great job.
Liverpool are impressive and are playing good football.
It won’t last forever it never does.
You enjoy it as I’m sure you will it’s well deserved.
		
Click to expand...

I dont have to convince myself of anything Tone. 

You said getting 100pts would be because of weaker sides, Leicester have Improved on last season, city are still a great side. IF we do get it, itll be no lesser achievement than when City done it. 

City have had 2 immense seasons, its almost impossible to dominate for longer periods without others catching up. 

Anyway it's all irrelevant, we havent won it yet. 

I've been through the last 30 odd years you dont need to tell me  it doesnt last forever.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Far from it

My comment about being as good as City was in regards the level of the results and the success - you started going on about style of play etc , I never mentioned anything about style of play ( hence why I believe you were going into it too much )

I don’t care what the style is , it’s about the results and right now we are very close to being the best start the league has seen ( irrelevant of style ) - that puts the team “at the moment” up with anything seen in the league

You do have a valid point in regards how fans see the team etc - I don’t recall saying you didn’t

it’s a simple thought- I don’t think the current Liverpool team will get as much credit as they possibly imo deserve when over the years other teams have been eulogiesed - just what I see on social media , in websites , phones in etc . It was just a throw away comment that I certainly didn’t expect the reaction

I’m loving the season - it’s great to watch , I think the way the team play is superb and above all the level of fitness imo is something never seen before even more so when considering the level of injuries we have ( which are quite significant right now )
		
Click to expand...

The reasons you see more negatives Phil, are twofold. 1, it's about your team. 2, the bigger the club, the bigger the backlash. Thinking you're being treated or commented on worse than previous teams really does come across as paranoid.

As to the injuries.
Really? Your squad players may be taking a hit,  but last few weeks you've played pretty much full strength. Mane, salah, firminho, taa, Robertson, vvd, gomez, Henderson, wiljnaudan, all been available all season have they not?


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 3, 2020)

Phil, it seems that you’d rather finish second in the league but have everyone praising Liverpool than win the league but have detractors.

Enjoy it ffs.


----------



## Beezerk (Jan 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Phil, it seems that you’d rather finish second in the league but have everyone praising Liverpool than win the league but have detractors.

Enjoy it ffs.
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣 Excellent.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 3, 2020)

fundy said:



			Lets chuck some oil on the fire 

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...h-man-city-goals-score-fixtures-a9268531.html

Nice of them to do an open training session on live tv last night too 

Click to expand...

I agree with a lot of it, but we havent had the "short cuts" that 2 others have.

I do believe in a greater share of wealth around the PL and the CL and EL, so that a Notts Forest, Leicester, Villa, Everton and many more can happen again, not the "super-clubs" getting ever bigger "cuts" of the pie, seeding, rights etc etc.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 3, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			You keep convincing yourself Stu.
All the top teams apart from you are weaker I’m sure most people can see that.
Weaker teams equal weaker opposition equals a weaker league.
I’m not bitter I’m more than that.
That doesn’t take away the fact,and I’ve always said this Klopp has done a great job.
Liverpool are impressive and are playing good football.
It won’t last forever it never does.
You enjoy it as I’m sure you will it’s well deserved.
		
Click to expand...

It depends on your perspective though (and I dont mean bitterness, BTW).

You could argue that the league is stronger, because more people are beating each other (outwith of us, so far). Nowadays a Palace dont have to sell their best players because the big clubs come knocking with high wages and transfer fees, until it gets ridiculous and they can then command a massive fee instead of a big fee (VVD, Maguire). 10-20 years ago, Zaha would have well gone by now. 

Only 6-7 months ago, we had 2 all English European finals which had never been done before, and thats before you include City also.

It depends on perspective, man U can compete in the big games, but not so much the lower end of the table, again, competitive.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Far from it

My comment about being as good as City was in regards the level of the results and the success - you started going on about style of play etc , I never mentioned anything about style of play ( hence why I believe you were going into it too much )

I don’t care what the style is , it’s about the results and right now we are very close to being the best start the league has seen ( irrelevant of style ) - that puts the team “at the moment” up with anything seen in the league

You do have a valid point in regards how fans see the team etc - I don’t recall saying you didn’t

it’s a simple thought- I don’t think the current Liverpool team will get as much credit as they possibly imo deserve when over the years other teams have been eulogiesed - just what I see on social media , in websites , phones in etc . It was just a throw away comment that I certainly didn’t expect the reaction

I’m loving the season - it’s great to watch , I think the way the team play is superb and above all the level of fitness imo is something never seen before even more so when considering the level of injuries we have ( which are quite significant right now )
		
Click to expand...

Phil, like on here there are some people who are worth discussing with, arguing with, and 90% you can do that with, then there are the 5% half-wits, then there are the cowards that use social media to say things that they would never say face-to-face. I try (and sometimes fail) to not argue with the other  10%, or try to ignore them. I dont do twitter really, Facebook a little bit, but if you are regularly on all 3 you will see increasing amounts of the 10% as the season goes on. Luckily the 90% will have different (but reasoned views) on our achievements, if any, this year.

If i'm being honest, I still think on their day that City play prettier football more often. If we win the league, party-time, if we get 102 points, brilliant, if we go unbeaten, immense, but worry about all of them if and when they happen, and maybe then argue about the best of all time. Its a harder argument when we havent even won the damn thing yet.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 3, 2020)

BTW, If you edge it to 11%, I may just edge in on the half-wits side.


----------



## SteveW86 (Jan 3, 2020)

I dont know what this means in terms of the "strength" of the league, but I looked up the total amount of points won in different premier league seasons

19/20: 577 points after 20/21 games
18/19: 1069   1st place 98 / 20th 16
17/18: 1041   1st place 100 / 20th 31
16/17: 1056   1st place 93 / 20th 24
15/16: 1033   1st place 81 / 20th 17

03/04 (Arsenal invincibles): 1032   1st place 90 / 20th 33
89/99 (UTD treble): 1025             1st place 79 / 20th 30

Its likely that those numbers are totally irrelevant, but thought it would be interesting to work out.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I dont have to convince myself of anything Tone.

You said getting 100pts would be because of weaker sides, Leicester have Improved on last season, city are still a great side. IF we do get it, itll be no lesser achievement than when City done it.

City have had 2 immense seasons, its almost impossible to dominate for longer periods without others catching up.

Anyway it's all irrelevant, we havent won it yet.

I've been through the last 30 odd years you dont need to tell me  it doesnt last forever.
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool can only beat whats in front of them but what’s in front of them is weaker.
The big 6 five of them are weaker.
Leicester are better than last year but not when they won it.
I’m sure you will get 100 points or more but you only imo get the trophy not the best of all time.
I have praised Klopp and Liverpool by the way,they deserve the title


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 3, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			I dont know what this means in terms of the "strength" of the league, but I looked up the total amount of points won in different premier league seasons

19/20: 577 points after 20/21 games
18/19: 1069   1st place 98 / 20th 16
17/18: 1041   1st place 100 / 20th 31
16/17: 1056   1st place 93 / 20th 24
15/16: 1033   1st place 81 / 20th 17

03/04 (Arsenal invincibles): 1032   1st place 90 / 20th 33
89/99 (UTD treble): 1025             1st place 79 / 20th 30

Its likely that those numbers are totally irrelevant, but thought it would be interesting to work out.
		
Click to expand...

That leciester81pts is gutting when 97 doesn’t win it


----------



## MegaSteve (Jan 3, 2020)

The fans maxim should be to feast on the bitterness whist supping from the cup of success... There's barren years behind and for sure there will be barren years ahead...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			The reasons you see more negatives Phil, are twofold. 1, it's about your team. 2, the bigger the club, the bigger the backlash. Thinking you're being treated or commented on worse than previous teams really does come across as paranoid.

As to the injuries.
Really? Your squad players may be taking a hit,  but last few weeks you've played pretty much full strength. Mane, salah, firminho, taa, Robertson, vvd, gomez, Henderson, wiljnaudan, all been available all season have they not?
		
Click to expand...

Yes injuries - believe we are down to 13 fit senior players right now and because of that people’s aren’t being rotated out to get a rest during an intense period with the extra game - we have currently two cb’s, three CM’s and a forward out injured 

And no not all those players have been available all season 

Salah , Firmino , Henderson , Winaljdum, Robertson , Alisson , Fabinho, Matip  and Gomez have been out at some point in the season so far - just VVD and Mane have managed to stay knock free at the moment


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes injuries - believe we are down to 13 fit senior players right now and because of that people’s aren’t being rotated out to get a rest during an intense period with the extra game - we have currently two cb’s, three CM’s and a forward out injured

And no not all those players have been available all season

Salah , Firmino , Henderson , Winaljdum, Robertson , Alisson , Fabinho, Matip  and Gomez have been out at some point in the season so far - just VVD and Mane have managed to stay knock free at the moment
		
Click to expand...

Injuries are when your down to 13 and it’s youth players on the bench.
Your fielding your strongest team week in week out.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 3, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Injuries are when your down to 13 and it’s youth players on the bench.
Your fielding your strongest team week in week out.
		
Click to expand...

I take it you didnt see our bench last night, a 16yo, a 17yo and 2 others who have probably only played 1 prem match between them?


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I take it you didnt see our bench last night, a 16yo, a 17yo and 2 others who have probably only played 1 prem match between them?
		
Click to expand...

No I was watching Rooney play.
You had your strongest team starting again I presume.
Might think about dusting the violin off  soon


----------



## Cherry13 (Jan 3, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			I dont know what this means in terms of the "strength" of the league, but I looked up the total amount of points won in different premier league seasons

19/20: 577 points after 20/21 games
18/19: 1069   1st place 98 / 20th 16
17/18: 1041   1st place 100 / 20th 31
16/17: 1056   1st place 93 / 20th 24
15/16: 1033   1st place 81 / 20th 17

03/04 (Arsenal invincibles): 1032   1st place 90 / 20th 33
89/99 (UTD treble): 1025             1st place 79 / 20th 30

Its likely that those numbers are totally irrelevant, but thought it would be interesting to work out.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Cherry13 (Jan 3, 2020)

Apologies if image above is poor quality, just done on phone. But this was pulled together last season.  Shows some interesting stats.  As a Newcastle fan manu winning with 75 pts in 95/96 is most gutting. 
Also, got to feel bad for West Ham in 03.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2020)

Wolf said:



			What's the point discussing anything then Tashy if have to wait till seasons end, doesnt change the style of football being played now which is being discussed. The discussion end of season would become more akin to is this Liverpool team as good as Utds 1999 team that won PL, CL & FA Cup, as they would have surpassed City's single season successes but again just my opinion. All discussions are valid at anytime people have to be willing to listen though.
		
Click to expand...

I know exactly what you mean, in all honesty as a neutral 🤔😉. Irrespective of style of play. Euro champs, world champs, English champs. Has anyone ever had that. Quite impressive. If City had won that, it would have been classed as bought that. The achievement somewhat overshadowed by ££££signs. But it’s Liverpool so hands up to them, at the moment. 
That aside. They have ground out results, sometimes through sheer grit and an ability to not give in. Have the club learned from last seasons failings in the league from players and manager, am positive they have.  It last season I thought they played more attractive football. But they failed in the league. This year, not so but let’s be right, every fan in the league would love to be in Liverpool’s position now, prem league winners elect.
For the record, arsenals invisibles and City’s are the best teams for me. 
Plus al take being best team of the last decade. 👍


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			No I was watching Rooney play.
You had your strongest team starting again I presume.
Might think about dusting the violin off  soon 

Click to expand...

😳 you play the violin, every days a skool day 😂


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I know exactly what you mean, in all honesty as a neutral 🤔😉. Irrespective of style of play. Euro champs, world champs, English champs. Has anyone ever had that. Quite impressive. If City had won that, it would have been classed as bought that. The achievement somewhat overshadowed by ££££signs. But it’s Liverpool so hands up to them, at the moment.
That aside. They have ground out results, sometimes through sheer grit and an ability to not give in. Have the club learned from last seasons failings in the league from players and manager, am positive they have.  It last season I thought they played more attractive football. But they failed in the league. This year, not so but let’s be right, every fan in the league would love to be in Liverpool’s position now, prem league winners elect.
For the record, arsenals invisibles and City’s are the best teams for me.
Plus al take being best team of the last decade. 👍
		
Click to expand...

Tash, Don’t be blinded by the £££ signs, City’s gets mentioned as it came so quick, plenty of other teams have spent millions upon millions in the pursuit of the PL.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes injuries - believe we are down to 13 fit senior players right now and because of that people’s aren’t being rotated out to get a rest during an intense period with the extra game - we have currently two cb’s, three CM’s and a forward6  out injured 

And no not all those players have been available all season 

Salah , Firmino , Henderson , Winaljdum, Robertson , Alisson , Fabinho, Matip  and Gomez have been out at some point in the season so far - just VVD and Mane have managed to stay knock free at the moment
		
Click to expand...

The reason you maybe down to 13 first team players is as much to do with your tiny squad as it is bad luck. I’ll explain why below. 

Only going by what I could find on the fantasy site for squads, but you have 8 defenders. Well the 3 of last nights 4 will play every week. Then you have had two injuries, but in theory that’s a good things as now England’s best cb can secure his place having been overlooked when all 3 were fit. So that’s 6 first team plus Williams and Phillips. Who??

Onto the midfield. Henderson and wijnaldum are first choice. They play week in week out. Keita has been injured most his time with you, would say If Fabinho fit then obv takes the 3rd spot. He’s actually managed 11 games this season so far. With Milner, ox, Lallana covering the rest. Again you still have Shaqiri there too. Plus jones. Elliot and Camacho. 

In attack, Salah, mane and firminho take pl the game time bar a couple of early season starts for origi. Then of course there is Brewster who along with most of the unheard of names above has zero minutes. 

Honestly having too much time on my hands I just checked every team. The average minutes played by each teams top 11 players was 1440 minutes, VVD, TAA, Robertson, Wijnauldum, Mane, Salah and Firminho have all played that much, with Henderson just below. Of course you’ve played a game less, so Henderson will be mere minutes below that after that game. 

The two positions you’ve struggled appearance wise anyways are your gk was injured early doors, and you’ve not had a settled cb pairing be that through injury currently, or Klopp not having a preference for the rest of the time. 

Unsurprisingly enough, the smaller clubs top players aged more minutes than this with bigger squads. That said, on average a teams preferred 11 have started 76% of the time. Sheffield Utd top at 88%, City at 70%. Liverpool, there 78%. Comfortably in the area of teams who’ve managed to consistently name a settled team. 
Right of I’m to have a beer and head butt a wall.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 3, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			The reason you maybe down to 13 first team players is as much to do with your tiny squad as it is bad luck. I’ll explain why below.

Only going by what I could find on the fantasy site for squads, but you have 8 defenders. Well the 3 of last nights 4 will play every week. Then you have had two injuries, but in theory that’s a good things as now England’s best cb can secure his place having been overlooked when all 3 were fit. So that’s 6 first team plus Williams and Phillips. Who??

Onto the midfield. Henderson and wijnaldum are first choice. They play week in week out. Keita has been injured most his time with you, would say If Fabinho fit then obv takes the 3rd spot. He’s actually managed 11 games this season so far. With Milner, ox, Lallana covering the rest. Again you still have Shaqiri there too. Plus jones. Elliot and Camacho.

In attack, Salah, mane and firminho take pl the game time bar a couple of early season starts for origi. Then of course there is Brewster who along with most of the unheard of names above has zero minutes.

Honestly having too much time on my hands I just checked every team. The average minutes played by each teams top 11 players was 1440 minutes, VVD, TAA, Robertson, Wijnauldum, Mane, Salah and Firminho have all played that much, with Henderson just below. Of course you’ve played a game less, so Henderson will be mere minutes below that after that game.

The two positions you’ve struggled appearance wise anyways are your gk was injured early doors, and you’ve not had a settled cb pairing be that through injury currently, or Klopp not having a preference for the rest of the time.

Unsurprisingly enough, the smaller clubs top players aged more minutes than this with bigger squads. That said, on average a teams preferred 11 have started 76% of the time. Sheffield Utd top at 88%, City at 70%. Liverpool, there 78%. Comfortably in the area of teams who’ve managed to consistently name a settled team.
Right of I’m to have a beer and head butt a wall.
		
Click to expand...

You’ve got no idea what you’ve just done 😨


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Tash, Don’t be blinded by the £££ signs, City’s gets mentioned as it came so quick, plenty of other teams have spent millions upon millions in the pursuit of the PL.
		
Click to expand...

oh I know that Paul, but it would of been mentioned by one teams supporters 😉 thought I would get it in early. Happy new year Paul me man.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 3, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			The reason you maybe down to 13 first team players is as much to do with your tiny squad as it is bad luck. I’ll explain why below.

Only going by what I could find on the fantasy site for squads, but you have 8 defenders. Well the 3 of last nights 4 will play every week. Then you have had two injuries, but in theory that’s a good things as now England’s best cb can secure his place having been overlooked when all 3 were fit. So that’s 6 first team plus Williams and Phillips. Who??

Onto the midfield. Henderson and wijnaldum are first choice. They play week in week out. Keita has been injured most his time with you, would say If Fabinho fit then obv takes the 3rd spot. He’s actually managed 11 games this season so far. With Milner, ox, Lallana covering the rest. Again you still have Shaqiri there too. Plus jones. Elliot and Camacho.

In attack, Salah, mane and firminho take pl the game time bar a couple of early season starts for origi. Then of course there is Brewster who along with most of the unheard of names above has zero minutes.

Honestly having too much time on my hands I just checked every team. The average minutes played by each teams top 11 players was 1440 minutes, VVD, TAA, Robertson, Wijnauldum, Mane, Salah and Firminho have all played that much, with Henderson just below. Of course you’ve played a game less, so Henderson will be mere minutes below that after that game.

The two positions you’ve struggled appearance wise anyways are your gk was injured early doors, and you’ve not had a settled cb pairing be that through injury currently, or Klopp not having a preference for the rest of the time.

Unsurprisingly enough, the smaller clubs top players aged more minutes than this with bigger squads. That said, on average a teams preferred 11 have started 76% of the time. Sheffield Utd top at 88%, City at 70%. Liverpool, there 78%. Comfortably in the area of teams who’ve managed to consistently name a settled team.
Right of I’m to have a beer and head butt a wall.
		
Click to expand...

Stop it facts are no good.
Go by Twatter or radio 5 live it’s much more concrete


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 3, 2020)

Cherry13 said:



			Apologies if image above is poor quality, just done on phone. But this was pulled together last season.  Shows some interesting stats.  As a Newcastle fan manu winning with 75 pts in 95/96 is most gutting. 
Also, got to feel bad for West Ham in 03.
		
Click to expand...

Remember the season well.

Was my first as a season ticket holder. Had saved my money from my paper round to get a season ticket for that year (my last year at school)

We didn't win a single home game until January!! Was mental 

Record points to go down

Such a great load of talent sold off for next to nothing.. Cole to chelsea for 6.6 million was day light robbery .. same with Johnson was hoping he would stay about after just breaking through 

Carrick to his credit stayed.. sold for a criminal 2.7 million to the spuds and the idiot chairman at the time included no sell on clause.?!!! So when he went for what 17 million the following season to man United was a double kicker 

Did enjoy the 2 seasons In the championship though.. 3 season were down their in past 20 years and I had a season ticket for all 3 of those. Great football to watch. Much better results for us lol.. went to 2 of the 3 play off finals.. missed the second one due to surgery 

First one was amazing staying in the players hotel the night before meeting noble (hadn't broken into the team yet) etherington. Carrick.. repka .. all had a nice healthy breakfast next morning except good old Brian Deane.. tucking into a full English (well prob full Welsh.. it was Celtic manor after all)


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			The reason you maybe down to 13 first team players is as much to do with your tiny squad as it is bad luck. I’ll explain why below.

Only going by what I could find on the fantasy site for squads, but you have 8 defenders. Well the 3 of last nights 4 will play every week. Then you have had two injuries, but in theory that’s a good things as now England’s best cb can secure his place having been overlooked when all 3 were fit. So that’s 6 first team plus Williams and Phillips. Who??

Onto the midfield. Henderson and wijnaldum are first choice. They play week in week out. Keita has been injured most his time with you, would say If Fabinho fit then obv takes the 3rd spot. He’s actually managed 11 games this season so far. With Milner, ox, Lallana covering the rest. Again you still have Shaqiri there too. Plus jones. Elliot and Camacho.

In attack, Salah, mane and firminho take pl the game time bar a couple of early season starts for origi. Then of course there is Brewster who along with most of the unheard of names above has zero minutes.

Honestly having too much time on my hands I just checked every team. The average minutes played by each teams top 11 players was 1440 minutes, VVD, TAA, Robertson, Wijnauldum, Mane, Salah and Firminho have all played that much, with Henderson just below. Of course you’ve played a game less, so Henderson will be mere minutes below that after that game.

The two positions you’ve struggled appearance wise anyways are your gk was injured early doors, and you’ve not had a settled cb pairing be that through injury currently, or Klopp not having a preference for the rest of the time.

Unsurprisingly enough, the smaller clubs top players aged more minutes than this with bigger squads. That said, on average a teams preferred 11 have started 76% of the time. Sheffield Utd top at 88%, City at 70%. Liverpool, there 78%. Comfortably in the area of teams who’ve managed to consistently name a settled team.
Right of I’m to have a beer and head butt a wall.
		
Click to expand...

In regards the tiny squad

Had a look at the registered players with the Prem League as what you could say is the first team squad

We registered 23 but that doesn’t include the likes of TAA or Elliott etc

Man City also registered 23 but doesn’t include Foden for example

Liverpool’s squad is not tiny as such but I guess perception could make it look that way

Also I don’t think you can just look at minutes played in regards Prem only when the squads also played - CL , League Cup , and even the World Club thing which will have an affect of the squad

Looking from the back - Alisson is IMO the best GK in the world but at times this season we have had to deal without him

The backline - the manager started with Matip and VVD as that was is first choice CB pairing at the end of the season previously - so we lose one of them , then the next steps in and we also lose him , so now we are down to two main senior CB’s with youngsters filling the bench.

In the middle - Fabinho is first name down , Henderson , Milner , Lallana Ox , Keita and Gini would be rotating around but we are now without three of them so again

The three guys up front will play most of the games with Origi and Shaqiri coming in ( also Ox ) but right now Shaqiri is out so it’s just Origi being there to come in

So last night we had Lallana and Origi as just the two senior players on the bench - if you have no choice to have 3 youth players on the bench then you have not a crisis but an injury issue - it may not look like it because it’s not currently affecting the main spine but the issue is not losing the main guys ( which would be a whole different issue ) but it’s right now not having the ability to rotate and rest players through a very hectic period within the calender

So yep when someone looks and sees that it’s the same line up week in week out it doesn’t look like there is an issue with injuries but when you look at the level of games that we have played since the start of the December then as I said I find the fitness levels to be amazing because those same players have played so many games.

we right now have to keep fingers crossed because it won’t take much more before a youth player is having to play 3/4 games in a row.

Cheers for the response and enjoy the pint

In other injury news I see Kane is our again for a couple of months - this time with his hamstring , so will mourinho go out and get another striker ?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Liverpool can only beat whats in front of them but what’s in front of them is weaker.
The big 6 five of them are weaker.
Leicester are better than last year but not when they won it.
I’m sure you will get 100 points or more *but you only imo get the trophy* _*not the best of all time.*_
I have praised Klopp and Liverpool by the way,they deserve the title
		
Click to expand...

Correct they can, we may not have been at our swashbuckling best but there’s more than one way to win a game. 
4 may be weaker, I’d say Leicester are above were they expected to be.                   
If we get 100pts then great but the trophy Is* the only one that matters*, the underlined bit is open to discussion/ opinion. 
I know you’ve been complimentary about Klopp 👍🏻


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 3, 2020)

When you win the league it's rather like your scorecard in golf, it doesn't say how you won it, how pretty it was, the opposition etc, it just says you won that season. Why would anyone care what others think if your teams name is on that trophy?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			When you win the league it's rather like your scorecard in golf, it doesn't say how you won it, how pretty it was, the opposition etc, it just says you won that season. Why would anyone care what others think if your teams name is on that trophy?
		
Click to expand...

Some will, it’s human nature. I won’t.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 3, 2020)

Liverpool will win the league, and I have to be honest if they were to match Arsenal and remain unbeaten (and at the moment it definitely could happen then) then it wouldn't be a major surprise although a long way to go but they are finding the way to win matches even when not playing their very best. I do think Klopp is on the way to making Liverpool a real force in Europe and at home in the way the great managers of the past did back in the 70's and 80's. Simply the best in the PL by a long way and no need for statistics or arguments about squad size to water down what they've done so far. 

For me the issue will be how much will City spend to get back to winning the PL. Can the so called big clubs ever find a squad good enough, deep enough and consistent enough to regularly challenge both Liverpool and City. At the moment I can't see anyone behind City in a position to challenge.


----------



## SteveW86 (Jan 3, 2020)

Have a bit of fun with this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50976057#unbeaten-team-XI-d4e5e892092e5148788a026b0f9e26a3


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 3, 2020)

My team based on a 4-3-3 would be...

https://team-picker.files.bbci.co.uk/unbeaten-team-XI-7adf6f53b5d32537fac1b9588304f474.html


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 3, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Have a bit of fun with this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50976057#unbeaten-team-XI-d4e5e892092e5148788a026b0f9e26a3

Click to expand...

https://team-picker.files.bbci.co.uk/unbeaten-team-XI-58c2f3ac3e826fab8c0fb11da01ef7b1.html


----------



## Beezerk (Jan 3, 2020)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50976057#unbeaten-team-XI-d4e5e892092e5148788a026b0f9e26a3

#worldbeaters


----------



## Captainron (Jan 3, 2020)

Liverpool will now be thinking of emulating the Invincibles aa they have the title sewn up. If I was Klopp I would be putting out the kids against Everton


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2020)

https://team-picker.files.bbci.co.uk/unbeaten-team-XI-77541c283dd5ae04f7358af5e6b04fd1.html


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2020)

Interesting graphic.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1213142980086775808


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2020)

Captainron said:



			Liverpool will now be thinking of emulating the Invincibles aa they have the title sewn up. *If I was Klopp I would be putting out the kids against Everton*

Click to expand...

Liverpool will not be thinking about emulating anyone. The mentality is next game as boring as it sounds, it’s worked to this point.

No way hose A. You don’t know how unbearable they’d be if they knocked us out 😡😡

Strongest team possible, Knock them feckers out the cup and end their season.

Then throw the kids in who played against Villa.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Liverpool will not be thinking about emulating anyone. The mentality is next game as boring as it sounds, it’s worked to this point.

No way hose A. You don’t know how unbearable they’d be if they knocked us out 😡😡

Strongest team possible, Knock them feckers out the cup and end their season.

Then throw the kids in who played against Villa.
		
Click to expand...

Season ended a long time ago, happy to be knocked out by your first team, imagine if your kids beat us!


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Season ended a long time ago, happy to be knocked out by your first team, imagine if your kids beat us! 

Click to expand...

You’s haven’t won at Anfield this Century, long may it continue.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			You’s haven’t won at Anfield this Century, long may it continue.
		
Click to expand...

Well aware of that mate, we both know we will win there eventually, but if we lose sunday then no issue if it’s against the first 11.

Written off this season, finish mid-table and see what Ancelotti does for next season and the 4 years beyond.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Well aware of that mate, we both know we will win there eventually, but if we lose sunday then no issue if it’s against the first 11.

Written off this season, finish mid-table and see what Ancelotti does for next season and the 4 years beyond.
		
Click to expand...

You’d expect so, I just don’t want it happening Sunday.

I’m surprised you’ve written off a potential cup run under Ancelotti, it could be the spring board for success in coming years.

Hopefully not like. 😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2020)

https://team-picker.files.bbci.co.uk/unbeaten-team-XI-5cb579ab66e6904fe95cd516650dbcf6.html

Was torn between Lampard for his 67 deflected goals and Pires’ consistent diving/winning pens 😁


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			You’d expect so, I just don’t want it happening Sunday.

I’m surprised you’ve written off a potential cup run under Ancelotti, it could be the spring board for success in coming years.

Hopefully not like. 😉
		
Click to expand...

Had too many false dawns over the last 25yrs
Had a chance with the Carabao, FA Cup run would be nice, but I’d rather he concentrate on getting us as high as possible up the league this year.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 3, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			No I was watching Rooney play.
You had your strongest team starting again I presume.
Might think about dusting the violin off  soon 

Click to expand...

Welcome to the 11% - which camp you wanna be in?

You said "Injuries are when your down to 13 and it’s youth players on the bench."

I proved to you thats exactly what we had last night.

If you want to counter it or argue, bring it on.

If you want to ignore the exact situation that you used as a criteria, and not admit that that was what happened, let me know what size you want your half-wit t-shirt in.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



*Had too many false dawns over the last 25yrs*
Had a chance with the Carabao, FA Cup run would be nice, but I’d rather he concentrate on getting us as high as possible up the league this year.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I remember “beat Villa and we go 2nd”  😂


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



https://team-picker.files.bbci.co.uk/unbeaten-team-XI-5cb579ab66e6904fe95cd516650dbcf6.html

Was torn between Lampard for his 67 deflected goals and Pires’ consistent diving/winning pens 😁
		
Click to expand...

Serious question so we don’t get the slagging off.

Why Alison? Has he seriously been tested? Not saying he’s not a top keeper, but since he’s arrived your defence has been a different level.

Is it potential you see or honestly believe he’s better now than Cech ever was?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 3, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Stop it facts are no good.
Go by Twatter or radio 5 live it’s much more concrete
		
Click to expand...

Oh, the irony.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Serious question so we don’t get the slagging off.

*Why Alison?* Has he seriously been tested? Not saying he’s not a top keeper, *but since he’s arrived your defence has been a different level.*

Is it potential you see or honestly believe he’s better now than Cech ever was?
		
Click to expand...

You’ve answered your own question. 

Seriously, he’s Top Top draw. Love him. 

Cech was Superb and I’m not putting him down but Cech couldn’t play football like Alisson does. There’s probably not much between them but I’ve watched Alisson closely for 18 months and trust me, he’s brilliant.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			You’ve answered your own question.

Seriously, he’s Top Top draw. Love him.

Cech was Superb and I’m not putting him down but Cech couldn’t play football like Alisson does. There’s probably not much between them but I’ve watched Alisson closely for 18 months and trust me, he’s brilliant.
		
Click to expand...

Fair one, cheers.
Like I said, I’m not doubting he’s a top keeper, but I can’t (as a neutral) remember many, or any actually, games over the last 18 months were I’ve watched it and thought he’s been the difference.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Oh, the irony.
		
Click to expand...

So if you put Liverpool in front of your name you’re pretty much good to go on here for you? 
Gotcha 👍🏻


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Fair one, cheers.
Like I said, I’m not doubting he’s a top keeper, but I can’t (as a neutral) remember many, or any actually, games over the last 18 months *were I’ve watched it and thought he’s been the difference.*

Click to expand...

Napoli last season?

Honestly he doesn’t get spoken about like DDG etc but he is comfortably world class.


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 3, 2020)

Alisson is good but f


Stuart_C said:



			Napoli last season?

Honestly he doesn’t get spoken about like DDG etc but he is comfortably world class.
		
Click to expand...

But proven better than Cech at his peak? Behave...


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Welcome to the 11% - which camp you wanna be in?

You said "Injuries are when your down to 13 and it’s youth players on the bench."

I proved to you thats exactly what we had last night.

If you want to counter it or argue, bring it on.

If you want to ignore the exact situation that you used as a criteria, and not admit that that was what happened, let me know what size you want your half-wit t-shirt in. 

Click to expand...

I don’t really care to be honest what percentage you put me in it means nothing to me.
As I said I didn’t watch your game or see your team sheet,however your still putting your best team out regardless of injuries.
Time will tell if those injuries hurt your title ambitions I certainly doubt it.
I also made an argument about the league being weaker but I believe you and Stu didn’t counter that argument well.
I think most will say it’s weaker especially the big 6 teams.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Alisson is good but f

But proven better than Cech at his peak? Behave...
		
Click to expand...

Behave?? It’s an opinion.

See post #7876

Cech at his peak couldn’t play football as comfortably as Alisson does now. He’s the complete goalkeeper.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 3, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			I don’t really care to be honest what percentage you put me in it means nothing to me.
As I said I didn’t watch your game or see your team sheet,however your still putting your best team out regardless of injuries.
Time will tell if those injuries hurt your title ambitions I certainly doubt it.
I also made an argument about the league being weaker but I believe you and Stu didn’t counter that argument well.
I think most will say it’s weaker especially the big 6 teams.
		
Click to expand...


Basically you wont admit your wrong then.

Goodnight.


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Behave?? It’s an opinion.

See post #7876

Cech at his peak couldn’t play football as comfortably as Alisson does now. He’s the complete goalkeeper.
		
Click to expand...

Judge footballers for their time. Schmeichel couldn’t make passes like Ederson but he was still the better keeper. Gary Neville couldn’t display the athleticism of TAA but he’s still the better right back. 

If Alisson continues as he has so far then he could become better than Cech but it’s a game of longevity when it comes to being the very best.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Judge footballers for their time. Schmeichel couldn’t make passes like Ederson but he was still the better keeper. Gary Neville couldn’t display the athleticism of TAA but he’s still the better right back.

If Alisson continues as he has so far then he could become better than Cech but it’s a game of longevity when it comes to being the very best.
		
Click to expand...

If we’re judging them for their time, then no Liverpool players should be in there because they’ve only been together for 2-3 seasons.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Judge footballers for their time. Schmeichel couldn’t make passes like Ederson but he was still the better keeper. Gary Neville couldn’t display the athleticism of TAA but he’s still the better right back. 

If Alisson continues as he has so far then he could become better than Cech but it’s a game of longevity when it comes to being the very best.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure too much credit should be given to longevity if I’m honest. Atm I’d have DDG amongst the best pl keepers ever, but if he makes a few major mistakes a season for the next 4/5 years does that discredit how good he was at his peak?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Judge footballers for their time. Schmeichel couldn’t make passes like Ederson but he was still the better keeper. Gary Neville couldn’t display the athleticism of TAA but he’s still the better right back.

If Alisson continues as he has so far then he could become better than Cech but it’s a game of longevity when it comes to being the very best.
		
Click to expand...

No it’s not, it was a choice between 3 keepers in one season, check the link.

Was Cech as good as Allison at the same age? Pointless question as that’s not what the link is asking and why Schmeichel and Neville were not an option.


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			If we’re judging them for their time, then no Liverpool players should be in there because they’ve only been together for 2-3 seasons.
		
Click to expand...

 I agree for the most. But some have done enough like VVD and Salah over multiple seasons at different teams. And TAA has no serious rival in the link. Lauren was always the weakness in that Arsenal defence. 


pauldj42 said:



			No it’s not, it was a choice between 3 keepers in one season, check the link.

Was Cech as good as Allison at the same age? Pointless question as that’s not what the link is asking and why Schmeichel and Neville were not an option.
		
Click to expand...

Discussions evolve. It’s gone beyond just that link.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2020)

Bergkamp and Drogba have scored 191 goals between them and Aguero has scored 174 and counting and he is not in the team. 🤔


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			I agree.


Discussions evolve. It’s gone beyond just that link.
		
Click to expand...

Has it? All answers came from Stu’s posts which were on point, ie Alison and his ability in one season compared to Cech and his one season.
No one else went off point!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Bergkamp and Drogba have scored 191 goals between them and Aguero has scored 174 and counting and he is not in the team. 🤔
		
Click to expand...

ffs tash, City aren’t in the link, it’s only Arsenal, Chelsea and LPool


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Has it? All answers came from Stu’s posts which were on point, ie Alison and his ability in one season compared to Cech and his one season.
No one else went off point!
		
Click to expand...

You’re a very strict conversationalist.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 3, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Bergkamp and Drogba have scored 191 goals between them and Aguero has scored 174 and counting and he is not in the team. 🤔
		
Click to expand...

It was 3 teams that have gone a year without defeat. When city manage that, Aguero can maybe be picked....


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			ffs tash, City aren’t in the link, it’s only Arsenal, Chelsea and LPool

Click to expand...

😳 why? gonna read it.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			You’re a very strict conversationalist.
		
Click to expand...

Really? Maybe it would be easier if when posters wanted to disagree or broaden the discussion, they said so.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			😳 why? gonna read it.
		
Click to expand...

Have fun, I’m off to bed. Happy New Year me man.


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Really? Maybe it would be easier if when posters wanted to disagree or broaden the discussion, they said so.

Click to expand...

Rules help control the fun!


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Really? Maybe it would be easier if when posters wanted to disagree or broaden the discussion, they said so.

Click to expand...

 Just read it, Zzzzzzzzzz much prefer the points table one over the years. Of which Everton seem to of done well.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 3, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Just read it, Zzzzzzzzzz much prefer the points table one over the years. Of which Everton seem to of done well.
		
Click to expand...

Big Clubs always do well. 
Also proves City have a history before Oil Money.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			It was 3 teams that have gone a year without defeat. When city manage that, Aguero can maybe be picked....
		
Click to expand...

Understand that now, but didn’t Chelsea and Arsenal go on to win the titles, whereas another unbeaten team er didn’t.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Big Clubs always do well. 
Also proves City have a history before Oil Money.

Click to expand...

I was gob smacked we were in the top ten for so long.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 3, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Understand that now, but didn’t Chelsea and Arsenal go on to win the titles, whereas another unbeaten team er didn’t.
		
Click to expand...

No season ends in December.... 
I’m sure arsenal and Chelsea would have lost a game the year before or after.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			I agree for the most. But some have done enough like VVD and Salah over multiple seasons at different teams. And TAA has no serious rival in the link. Lauren was always the weakness in that Arsenal defence.


Discussions evolve. It’s gone beyond just that link.
		
Click to expand...

Alisson is Brazil’s #1, has won many personal accolades over the last few seasons and has had a massive affect on the improvement of our team. Not just defensively but attacking.  He’s proved it at Roma too. 

He’s a world class keeper and after watching him closely for 18months nothing will change my mind that he’s as good if not slightly better than what Cech was at the same time.


----------



## Captainron (Jan 4, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Liverpool will not be thinking about emulating anyone. The mentality is next game as boring as it sounds, it’s worked to this point.

No way hose A. You don’t know how unbearable they’d be if they knocked us out 😡😡

Strongest team possible, Knock them feckers out the cup and end their season.

Then throw the kids in who played against Villa.
		
Click to expand...

But your best XI need a break after the run of games you’ve just had. 

The FA cup means FA this season with your league aspirations being so important after 30 years of underachieving. 

Would you think differently if it was a tie against Sunderland/Burnley/Norwich etc?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 4, 2020)

Captainron said:



			But your best XI need a break after the run of games you’ve just had.

The FA cup means FA this season with your league aspirations being so important after 30 years of underachieving.

Would you think differently if it was a tie against Sunderland/Burnley/Norwich etc?
		
Click to expand...

Get them beat then sub whoever is struggling.

I dont wanna see the same team as what played against Arsenal in the Carabao.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 4, 2020)

Captainron said:



			But your best XI need a break after the run of games you’ve just had.

The FA cup means FA this season with your league aspirations being so important after 30 years of underachieving.

Would you think differently if it was a tie against Sunderland/Burnley/Norwich etc?
		
Click to expand...

The sheff Utd manager after the Liverpool game said his team were both mentality shot, he is making 11 changes due to the Xmas period. Liverpool had the busiest December of any month and came through it with flying colours. But at what cost. Time will tell.


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 4, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			The sheff Utd manager after the Liverpool game said his team were both mentality shot, he is making 11 changes due to the Xmas period. Liverpool had the busiest December of any month and came through it with flying colours. But at what cost. Time will tell.
		
Click to expand...

You clutching at straws here, Tashy? 🤣


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 4, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			The sheff Utd manager after the Liverpool game said his team were both mentality shot, he is making 11 changes due to the Xmas period. Liverpool had the busiest December of any month and came through it with flying colours. *But at what cost. Time will tell.*

Click to expand...

Dont worry Tash, Jurgen's got it covered. The drugs will kick in and the PGMOL are due another payment off Klopp. 😉🤭🤭


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 4, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Dont worry Tash, Jurgen's got it covered. The drugs will kick in and the PGMOL are due another payment off Klopp. 😉🤭🤭
		
Click to expand...

Daughter is in Liverpool this weekend, she called us to say her and her other half ( his birthday) went into the comedy club last night. Said it was brilliant. However they were sat at the front. And numerous comedians in essence ripped them to bits. Why, they just happened to mention they were both coppers. They then said they both worked for south York’s police. Am sure you can imagine the response. Daughters partner when asked what team he supports copped out, he said he supports City and not his actual team, Sheff wed. He still got ripped to bits.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 4, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Daughter is in Liverpool this weekend, she called us to say her and her other half ( his birthday) went into the comedy club last night. Said it was brilliant. However they were sat at the front. And numerous comedians in essence ripped them to bits. Why, they just happened to mention they were both coppers. They then said they both worked for south York’s police. Am sure you can imagine the response. Daughters partner when asked what team he supports copped out, he said he supports City and not his actual team, Sheff wed. He still got ripped to bits.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂 schoolboy error to sit at the front. theres a video doing the rounds on whatsapp at the same place where the comedian asks a couple what they do, he's a copper and she's a tax inspector he then rips them for about 5mins. Funny.


----------



## fundy (Jan 4, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			😂😂 schoolboy error to sit at the front. theres a video doing the rounds on whatsapp at the same place where the comedian asks a couple what they do, he's a copper and she's a tax inspector he then rips them for about 5mins. Funny.
		
Click to expand...

geez they not find anyone more cliched to sit at the front with their prepared material


----------



## Slime (Jan 4, 2020)

How's that not a penalty?
Ridiculous!


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 4, 2020)

"You've come to see United", they still sing.

Yeah, right.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 4, 2020)

Just seen the  Watford score, madness,wtf happened there?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 4, 2020)

fundy said:



			i went over the top yesterday too, i backed your lot to win the league by 10+ points, feel quite dirty today 

Click to expand...

Eh Fundy looking good value now 🤞🏻😉


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 5, 2020)

If anyone needs cheering up today can I recommend they google Tom Pope, Twitter, john Stones. Very funny.


----------



## Piece (Jan 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Just seen the  Watford score, madness,wtf happened there?
		
Click to expand...

Nine changes. Coast to three nil. Two enforced changes around HT bringing on two more unknowns. Poor game management, fitness, three errors and another stupid sending off mean Tranmere get a deserved draw. A cliche, but a good game to show who clearly is first team material and who isn’t. The replay will give some a final chance to remain.


----------



## Fish (Jan 5, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If anyone needs cheering up today can I recommend they google Tom Pope, Twitter, john Stones. Very funny.
		
Click to expand...

I thought you were going to say watch the Spurs match 😜


----------



## Fish (Jan 5, 2020)

Loving our kit today, 1970’s, original crest, no sponsorship, no player names 💙


----------



## fundy (Jan 5, 2020)

Fish said:



			Loving our kit today, 1970’s, original crest, no sponsorship, no player names 💙
		
Click to expand...

another goal or two please too


----------



## Fish (Jan 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			another goal or two please too
		
Click to expand...

Backed us 4+ have we 🤔


----------



## fundy (Jan 5, 2020)

Fish said:



			Backed us 4+ have we 🤔
		
Click to expand...

we may have a variety of handicap bets once we saw the opposition line up


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 5, 2020)

Fish said:



			Loving our kit today, 1970’s, original crest, no sponsorship, no player names 💙
		
Click to expand...

What is the reason behind it? Is it an anniversary of some sort?


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 5, 2020)

Looks like Liverpool have decided to take a punt on the squad.... 

Good chance for Everton to finally get the win at Anfield.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 5, 2020)

Great to see the young lads going for it , gutted about Milner getting injured but good to see Ox back on the bench


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 5, 2020)

3 great chances, each one hit straight at the keeper 🙄


----------



## Fish (Jan 5, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What is the reason behind it? Is it an anniversary of some sort?
		
Click to expand...

50th Anniversary from our first FA Cup win 1970, great kit 💙


----------



## Fish (Jan 5, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			3 great chances, each one hit straight at the keeper 🙄
		
Click to expand...

Should have scored at least 2 of them, especially the header.


----------



## Fish (Jan 5, 2020)

United are rumoured to have offered £45m plus Lingard for James Maddison but Leicester have said it is £40m straight cash or no deal. 😂


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 5, 2020)

Fish said:



			United are rumoured to have offered £45m plus Lingard for James Maddison but Leicester have said it is £40m straight cash or no deal. 😂
		
Click to expand...

Surely they added Lingard in the deal just for Banter 😂


----------



## Fish (Jan 5, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What is the reason behind it? Is it an anniversary of some sort?
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 5, 2020)

Fish said:



			United are rumoured to have offered £45m plus Lingard for James Maddison but Leicester have said it is £40m straight cash or no deal. 😂
		
Click to expand...

In the current climate £40m for Maddison seems a steal. I'm amazed Leicester have quoted such a price. (Have I missed a straight up gag or is this genuine? Yes I get the Lingard bit by the way 👍)


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 5, 2020)

Fish said:



View attachment 28887

Click to expand...

Shirts are so busy now it's nice to see a pretty clean, simple design again.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 5, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			In the current climate £40m for Maddison seems a steal. I'm amazed Leicester have quoted such a price. (Have I missed a straight up gag or is this genuine? Yes I get the Lingard bit by the way 👍)
		
Click to expand...

Re-read it dude 😂


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 5, 2020)

Shame the Emirates Cup is ruined by clubs playing understrength teams.
Probably why we are  watching it on Cooncil telly in Scotland.
Mind you that Liverpool right back looks like some player.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 5, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Re-read it dude 😂
		
Click to expand...

I had a horrible feeling that was the case 😳 #feelinggullible


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 5, 2020)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Shame the *Emirates Cup *is ruined by clubs playing understrength teams.
Probably why we are  watching it on Cooncil telly in Scotland.
Mind you that Liverpool right back looks like some player.
		
Click to expand...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Emirates_Cup

It is a pre season Tournament though so you would expect teams to be easing the main players in


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 5, 2020)

😲😲😲😲 wow what a strike and brilliant from the young - amazing


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 5, 2020)

Brilliant strike that. We have been absolutely dreadful, especially in the 2nd. Should have scored at least 2 in the first, done absolutely nothing in the 2nd. I hope that’s the last we see of Sigurdsson, doesn’t look remotely interested. We need a new playmaker and a centre back as soon as possible.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 5, 2020)

Shocking display, being outclassed by hard work and skill. Best team in front.
Fully deserve to lose this, absolutely rubbish!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 5, 2020)

I think Jurgen has put something in our half time cuppa. Awful second half.

Carlo may want to be a little more active in January than he first thought after this display.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 5, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think Jurgen has put something in our half time cuppa. Awful second half.

Carlo may want to be a little more active in January than he first thought after this display.
		
Click to expand...

Weren’t much better first half, 3 chances missed, one is excusable, not 3! They’ve outworked us in every position.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 5, 2020)

Excruciating every time Holgate and Mina have the ball. So easily pressed, ball constantly going backwards. Schneiderlin hasn’t played the ball forward other than the shot he ballooned over the bar. Absolutely shocking performance. Where’s the creativity? Why can’t we keep the ball? Carlo’s got some serious work to do.


----------



## richart (Jan 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Alisson is Brazil’s #1, has won many personal accolades over the last few seasons and has had a massive affect on the improvement of our team. Not just defensively but attacking.  He’s proved it at Roma too.

He’s a world class keeper and after watching him closely for 18months nothing will change my mind that he’s as good if not slightly better than what Cech was at the same time.
		
Click to expand...

Best keepers in Premier and Championship both Brazilian. Who would have thought it. Ours cost £65 million less than yours.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 5, 2020)

What a stunning victory - the u23 players were outstanding , what a performance and even more so from players like Lallana and Gomez. Brilliant


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 5, 2020)

Get to bed boys, school in the morning!


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 5, 2020)

Whens the draw? I reckon we’ll get Juve away whilst City’ll get Marine at home 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Beezerk (Jan 5, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think Jurgen has put something in our half time cuppa. Awful second half.

Carlo may want to be a little more active in January than he first thought after this display.
		
Click to expand...

Bringing Delph on in the 2nd half was a really poor move for you lot, he's such a negative player. There were umpteen times he had a simple forward pass on but decided to do a Scott Parker esque 180 and pass it to the CB.


----------



## Midnight (Jan 5, 2020)

Had my first experience of VAR today, don't get me wrong Chelsea deserved to  win, but what a crock VAR is. 

How can we have it in some cup matches but not all? It's either in or it ain't. I understand lower league clubs like Forest don't have it,   so you know what  it should not be used in the cup unless everyone is using it. 
I now now the ecstasy of screaming and cheering for a pen that the ref has given, only to have it ripped away 😭😭

Nice to see Hudson odi back ( unsure if spelt correct) apart from injury what's been up with him? 

Last bit, well played Liverpool some awesome talent coming through. I love passion and these youngsters showed it.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jan 5, 2020)

Strange, I don't hear many voices complaining that Liverpool are disrespecting the Cup......


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 5, 2020)

😉😂


----------



## Captainron (Jan 5, 2020)

@Stuart_C told you Klopp would play the kids. And they did a good job too.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 5, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What a stunning victory - the u23 players were outstanding , what a performance and even more so from players like Lallana and Gomez. Brilliant
		
Click to expand...

Yes thought all the senior players played really well.
Gomez was very calm and his distribution was good.
Thought Origi did well.
The young midfield lads impressed me.
Tremendous finish from a very good talent ,can’t be long before he plays in the first team.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 5, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Bringing Delph on in the 2nd half was a really poor move for you lot, he's such a negative player. There were umpteen times he had a simple forward pass on but decided to do a Scott Parker esque 180 and pass it to the CB.
		
Click to expand...

I imagine the aim was to get some control in the middle. That worked didn't it 😥.

We are missing Gomes big time. He is the player who can put his foot on it, controls the middle, makes the slide pass. With Gylffi becoming anonymous and Gomes being out all season I can see that role  being the January priority


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 5, 2020)

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 

Great performance from our lads today but not getting too excited it was only against Evertons strongest side 🤭🤭

I think I said it a few weeks ago Evertonians need to change their attitude towards the team. Again today booing Pickford and Walcott after they made a couple of mistakes. Poor.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 5, 2020)

Captainron said:



@Stuart_C told you Klopp would play the kids. And they did a good job too.
		
Click to expand...

I dont know why I was bothered 😂😂😂


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Great performance from our lads today but not getting too excited it was only against Evertons strongest side 🤭🤭

I think I said it a few weeks ago Evertonians need to change their attitude towards the team. Again today booing Pickford and Walcott after they made a couple of mistakes. Poor.
		
Click to expand...

I heard the booing towards Walcott, when/why were they booing Pickford?

These players are thousands and thousands of pounds a week and those fans, like yourself, are spending a fortune following them up and down the Country, that today was one of the most embarrassing displays I’ve seen in years and a lot of that squad should be ashamed, I’ve got no issue with some of them frauds being booed.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 5, 2020)

Fish said:



			United are rumoured to have offered £45m plus Lingard for James Maddison but Leicester have said it is £40m straight cash or no deal. 😂
		
Click to expand...

So Leicester basically saying, we'd rather have 5m less than having to have Lingard, also?

They seem to have their head screwed on.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 5, 2020)

Very professional performance tonight 

I like what Moyes has installed in the past week. Work rate. Commitment .. taking all games seriously 

Not afraid to go 3 at the back 

Shame about the injury to Frederick's but good to grind out the win

Glad fornals is coming good. Really rate him


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 5, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I heard the booing towards Walcott, when/why were they booing Pickford?

These players are thousands and thousands of pounds a week and those fans, like yourself, are spending a fortune following them up and down the Country, that today was one of the most embarrassing displays I’ve seen in years and a lot of that squad should be ashamed, I’ve got no issue with some of them frauds being booed.
		
Click to expand...

Towards the end he had the ball and they were all screaming for him to launch it long, instead he played it short to holgate. 

 What was that Juventus flag about in your end? I get the Italian flags for Ancellotti/Kean


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 5, 2020)

Adrian kept us in it.

Overall hard to split Gomez and Lallana for MOM.

For the kids, Chirivella and Williams good throughout, I thought Jones was a bit quiet until his goal.

That mason holgate is woeful, must have given the ball away 30% percent of the time, which for a CH is poor.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Towards the end he had the ball and they were all screaming for him to launch it long, instead he played it short to holgate.

What was that Juventus flag about in your end? I get the Italian flags for Ancellotti/Kean
		
Click to expand...

No idea didn’t see a flag mate, probably some rat scumbag trying to make a point over Heysel.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 5, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Adrian kept us in it.

Overall hard to split Gomez and Lallana for MOM.

For the kids, Chirivella and Williams good throughout, I thought Jones was a bit quiet until his goal.

That mason holgate is woeful, must have given the ball away 30% percent of the time, which for a CH is poor.
		
Click to expand...

I thought Lourucci the left back was immense too. 

Mason Holgate is a proper shithouse, left his foot in a few times tonight. Still cant believe he never got booked for throwing Bobby in the main stand a few seasons ago.  

Our team today cost less than Sigurdsson alone.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I thought Lourucci the left back was immense too.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, but dont want to be accused of dropping a hyperbole bomb.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 5, 2020)

Just heard the liverpool team have failed a drugs test, apparently they've all tested positive for calpol 🤭


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 5, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, but dont want to be accused of dropping a hyperbole bomb. 

Click to expand...

😂😂

Its mad how we've gone from having 3 shit goalies to 2 of the worlds best😉


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 5, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, but dont want to be accused of dropping a hyperbole bomb. 

Click to expand...

He was solid as a rock , kept Richarlinson quiet and made Walcott look worse than he normally is 

Elliot was quiet , Williams and Phillips looked solid but imo Chrivella was excellent in the middle - none of them looked nervous about it all.


----------



## fundy (Jan 6, 2020)

No Torreira, Doozi and Xhaka in central midfield, the press has gone again, getting torn a new one by Leeds so far


----------



## Fish (Jan 6, 2020)

Hull away = no VAR, that’s a result all on it’s own 😎👍💙

meanwhile, if Cov get through they play as the home club against Birmingham at their own club 😳. Will that mean Cov would get the home attendance seats and B’ham only the away allowance, that’ll be fun 😜


----------



## fundy (Jan 6, 2020)

Fish said:



			Hull away = no VAR, that’s a result all on it’s own 😎👍💙

meanwhile, if Cov get through they play as the home club against Birmingham at their own club 😳. Will that mean Cov would get the home attendance seats and B’ham only the away allowance, that’ll be fun 😜
		
Click to expand...


you didnt want VAR against Forest this weekend? you rather it wasnt there and you were off to the city ground for a replay?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 6, 2020)

Fish said:



			Hull away = no VAR, that’s a result all on it’s own 😎👍💙

meanwhile, if Cov get through they play as the home club against Birmingham at their own club 😳. Will that mean Cov would get the home attendance seats and B’ham only the away allowance, that’ll be fun 😜
		
Click to expand...

The Macdonalds down the hill will be fun.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 6, 2020)

Fish said:



			Hull away = no VAR, that’s a result all on it’s own 😎👍💙

meanwhile, if Cov get through they play as the home club against Birmingham at their own club 😳. Will that mean Cov would get the home attendance seats and B’ham only the away allowance, that’ll be fun 😜
		
Click to expand...

Didnt VAR help get a goal disallowed and a penalty overturned against Chelsea ?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 6, 2020)

Got a feeling we'll get well and truly Pep'd no matter who he puts out


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 6, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Adrian kept us in it.

Overall hard to split Gomez and Lallana for MOM.

For the kids, Chirivella and Williams good throughout, I thought Jones was a bit quiet until his goal.

That mason holgate is woeful, must have given the ball away 30% percent of the time, which for a CH is poor.[/QUO
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 6, 2020)

Alex Scott is banging 😍


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 6, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Alex Scott is banging 😍
		
Click to expand...

Rumours she was with her strickly dance partner


----------



## fundy (Jan 6, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Alex Scott is banging 😍
		
Click to expand...

footballs isa guha


----------



## Wolf (Jan 6, 2020)

Much better so far and goal was deserved.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			footballs isa guha 

Click to expand...

I had to google her and thank Christ I did 😉


----------



## fundy (Jan 6, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Much better so far and goal was deserved.
		
Click to expand...

still so paceless and static in the middle of the park, hopefully the goal improves us! would like to see Ceballos sooner rather than later


----------



## fundy (Jan 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I had to google her and thank Christ I did 😉
		
Click to expand...

your google must work better than mine


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			your google must work better than mine 

Click to expand...

https://images.app.goo.gl/Yjy5iJoCCDYNApKTA

I’d let her scratch my back 😉


----------



## fundy (Jan 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



https://images.app.goo.gl/Yjy5iJoCCDYNApKTA

I’d let her scratch my back 😉
		
Click to expand...

delete
delete
delete
somehow you need to keep her from talking


----------



## Wolf (Jan 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			still so paceless and static in the middle of the park, hopefully the goal improves us! would like to see Ceballos sooner rather than later
		
Click to expand...

I find we tend to be flat in the middle when douzi is playing,he's full of useless energy and doesn't look forward for the pass often enough hence Ozil service dries up. Xhaka has been much improved since Arteta took over and has that bite back he had when he first signed.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			footballs isa guha 

Click to expand...

Had to google her as I’m not a cricket fan,Noice👍🏻
But she’s no Alex Scott.


----------



## Wolf (Jan 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



https://images.app.goo.gl/Yjy5iJoCCDYNApKTA

I’d let her scratch my back 😉
		
Click to expand...

😳😍


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			delete
delete
delete
somehow you need to keep her from talking
		
Click to expand...

Well I’m no good for that 😂😂


----------



## fundy (Jan 6, 2020)

Wolf said:



			I find we tend to be flat in the middle when douzi is playing,he's full of useless energy and doesn't look forward for the pass often enough hence Ozil service dries up. Xhaka has been much improved since Arteta took over and has that bite back he had when he first signed.
		
Click to expand...

just shows when used right how much Torreira is worth to us imo, Xhaka been horrible tonight, slow and fouling everything that moves and getting away with it


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			delete
delete
delete
somehow you need to keep her from talking
		
Click to expand...

Bit like Sam Quek then? 😂


----------



## fundy (Jan 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Well I’m no good for that 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

i really wanted to word it differently but as much as i love him didnt want the fragger pm lol


----------



## Wolf (Jan 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			just shows when used right how much Torreira is worth to us imo, Xhaka been horrible tonight, slow and fouling everything that moves and getting away with it
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree about Torreira. I don't mind that side of Xhaka tonight though something we've lacked is the is bit of nastiness. Plus im not worried about how slow he's been when you look at the line uo tonight its not blessed with a lot of technical ability so to much quick pace in the game isn't a lot of use. Shows how thin our squad is technically imo


----------



## fundy (Jan 6, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Totally agree about Torreira. I don't mind that side of Xhaka tonight though something we've lacked is the is bit of nastiness. Plus im not worried about how slow he's been when you look at the line uo tonight its not blessed with a lot of technical ability so to much quick pace in the game isn't a lot of use. Shows how thin our squad is technically imo
		
Click to expand...


yup shows how deficient we are in certain areas when you take one player out and we are unable to press at all as a side!


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			i really wanted to word it differently but as much as i love him didnt want the fragger pm lol
		
Click to expand...

Haha I’ve used my imagination.....erm.....


----------



## Fish (Jan 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			you didnt want VAR against Forest this weekend? you rather it wasnt there and you were off to the city ground for a replay?
		
Click to expand...

I said at the time that they’d have possibly equalised, nobody would have known how the game would have turned out then at 2-2 though, but I’d rather not have the potential controversy and just accept the result on the day, so it’s all on the ref at Hull 👍

I was like a drowned rat the last time we went there, Hull were that shit Sutton even scored 😳😜😂😂💙


----------



## Fish (Jan 6, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			The Macdonalds down the hill will be fun.
		
Click to expand...

it’ll be mental all over the place, reading stuff already, can’t wait to see the ticket allocation if it comes off.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 7, 2020)

Fish said:



			it’ll be mental all over the place, reading stuff already, can’t wait to see the ticket allocation if it comes off.
		
Click to expand...

It may be a record January for Burberry.


----------



## Piece (Jan 7, 2020)

This could get smelly for Utd......


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 7, 2020)

Piece said:



			This could get smelly for Utd......
		
Click to expand...

Could? it's there already. City are a level above tonight, utd are getting schooled.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 7, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Could? it's there already. City are a level above tonight, utd are getting schooled.
		
Click to expand...

It’s wonderful to see too.


----------



## Robin Hood (Jan 7, 2020)

This could be so embarrassing for United


----------



## fundy (Jan 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It’s wonderful to see too.
		
Click to expand...

not too many or Ole might not be at the wheel for much longer


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 7, 2020)

fundy said:



			not too many or Ole might not be at the wheel for much longer 

Click to expand...

It won’t matter, it’ll take 3 full seasons and £500m for any manager to turn this dross around.


----------



## fundy (Jan 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It won’t matter, it’ll take 3 full seasons and £500m for any manager to turn this dross around.
		
Click to expand...

so youre saying all they need is a 1/3 of an Abramovic


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2020)

Are United playing their U23 side tonight


----------



## Piece (Jan 7, 2020)

fundy said:



			not too many or Ole might not be at the wheel for much longer 

Click to expand...

The only decent Ole on show tonight are the ones from the City fans...


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 7, 2020)

fundy said:



			so youre saying all they need is a 1/3 of an Abramovic 

Click to expand...

Possibly. If they buy the right players and not overpriced rubbish like Maguire, Fred and co😊


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 7, 2020)

Another goal keeps Ole in the job a bit longer, great fight back etc...


----------



## fundy (Jan 7, 2020)

how good would rashford be if he had a couple of years a few miles East of Old Trafford?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 7, 2020)

fundy said:



			how good would rashford be if he had a couple of years a few miles East of Old Trafford?
		
Click to expand...

He’s fronting that team at the minute, He needs help.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 7, 2020)

Flippin eck, where did that Utd display come from. I watched them beat City a month ago and sung there praises.tonight they were rammel. Is Phil Jones the football equivalent of Diane Abbott. Utd looking like a team of strangers. Oh dear.

Re Rashford, took his goal well seeing as Otamendi was running the wrong way, but I think he is going backwards.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 7, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Flippin eck, where did that Utd display come from. I watched them beat City a month ago and sung there praises.tonight they were rammel. Is Phil Jones the football equivalent of Diane Abbott. Utd looking like a team of strangers. Oh dear.

Re Rashford, took his goal well seeing as Otamendi was running the wrong way, but I think he is going backwards.
		
Click to expand...

He’s a young lad with lots of talent carrying that side, no wonder he’s going backwards.

Was hoping it was going to be a tighter game than it played out tbh.

Another cup final for Pep.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			He’s a young lad with lots of talent carrying that side, no wonder he’s going backwards.

Was hoping it was going to be a tighter game than it played out tbh.

Another cup final for Pep.
		
Click to expand...

I think the problem is Stu, who has he really had to push him onto another level. OGS, Maureen, could you imagine him under Pep Or Klopp. Look at sterling now ( although he has been average last few months). Pep coached him where to get to. And sterling ended up with stevie wonder tap ins.
cannot believe Phil Jones is still dragging a wage at Utd. City sing ”you Signed phil Jones we’ve got Kun Aguero”.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 7, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I think the problem is Stu, who has he really had to push him onto another level. OGS, Maureen, could you imagine him under Pep Or Klopp. Look at sterling now ( although he has been average last few months). Pep coached him where to get to. And sterling ended up with stevie wonder tap ins.
cannot believe Phil Jones is still dragging a wage at Utd. City sing ”you Signed phil Jones we’ve got Kun Aguero”.
		
Click to expand...

Aguero is probably a better defender.!


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 7, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I think the problem is Stu, who has he really had to push him onto another level. OGS, Maureen, could you imagine him under Pep Or Klopp. Look at sterling now ( although he has been average last few months). Pep coached him where to get to. And sterling ended up with stevie wonder tap ins.
cannot believe Phil Jones is still dragging a wage at Utd. City sing ”you Signed phil Jones we’ve got Kun Aguero”.
		
Click to expand...

If my memory is right JM played him out wide and said he wasn’t a striker. 

OGS is blagging his way through that job. The longer he’s there, the more damage he’s doing. 

Sterling has improved under his last 3 managers, he still lacks that killer instinct though.

How Phil Jones is still at Yernited is beyond me.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 7, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Aguero is probably a better defender.!
		
Click to expand...

mind you am going on about Jones when we have Otamendi 😖


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			If my memory is right JM played him out wide and said he wasn’t a striker.

OGS is blagging his way through that job. The longer he’s there, the more damage he’s doing.

Sterling has improved under his last 3 managers, he still lacks that killer instinct though.

How Phil Jones is still at Yernited is beyond me.
		
Click to expand...

Been talking to lad Tash tonight. Where are Utd and Arsenal going to finish In the league. For me OGS has the better squad at Utd, but Arsenal  have the better coach in Arteta.


----------



## 4LEX (Jan 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It won’t matter, it’ll take 3 full seasons and £500m for any manager to turn this dross around.
		
Click to expand...

Despite Ole being absolutely useless theres a core of a good side. De Gea, AWB, Maguire and McTominey are all very good players. Rashford is about to go to true world class level. Martial and Pogba will raise £150m as theres still people stupid enough to buy them for vast amounts. Throw in Man Utd's usual £125m of summer spend and with a world class manager and the right signings things would change quickly. A new striker, playmaker. left back and it's a totally new dynamic. City will be in big trouble once Pep goes in 2021 as you simply can't replace the best manager in the world. Liverpool are excellent but theres no guarentee once the title has landed complacency wouldn't set in. 

Liverpool finished 6 or so points behind Man Utd 18 months ago, then something like 30 ahead the year after. Things change quick in football.

Man Utd's problem is Ed Woodwood. He made a huge mistake in giving Ole the job and is compounding it by making an even bigger mistake in not sacking him. His record in player recruitment is borderline professional neglect. Man Utd are dusted as long as he's CEO.


----------



## Slime (Jan 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			He’s fronting that team at the minute, *He needs help.*

Click to expand...

Well done.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 8, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Despite Ole being absolutely useless theres a core of a good side. De Gea, AWB, Maguire and McTominey are all very good players. Rashford is about to go to true world class level. Martial and Pogba will raise £150m as theres still people stupid enough to buy them for vast amounts. Throw in Man Utd's usual £125m of summer spend and with a world class manager and the right signings things would change quickly. A new striker, playmaker. left back and it's a totally new dynamic. City will be in big trouble once Pep goes in 2021 as you simply can't replace the best manager in the world. Liverpool are excellent but theres no guarentee once the title has landed complacency wouldn't set in.

Liverpool finished 6 or so points behind Man Utd 18 months ago, then something like 30 ahead the year after. Things change quick in football.

Man Utd's problem is Ed Woodwood. He made a huge mistake in giving Ole the job and is compounding it by making an even bigger mistake in not sacking him. His record in player recruitment is borderline professional neglect. Man Utd are dusted as long as he's CEO.
		
Click to expand...

Rashford "true world class level" 😂😂😂
I rate him but he's not near that level yet.

The problem is you need more than 5 good players to make that team capable to get closer to City and Liverpool. 

Going by the transfer fees in recent seasons it'll take more than £275m to improve that squad to compete. 

With the right manager and signings you're right it could change but unless you're buying the real best players  it'll take 2 or 3 seasons to see a massive improvement. Have Yernited fans got the patience?

Right now there's no evidence to suggest any Complacency from Liverpool, the mentality klopp has instilled suggests there'll be no complacency if we win the league.


----------



## Junior (Jan 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Possibly. If they buy the right players and not overpriced rubbish like Maguire, Fred and co😊
		
Click to expand...

The problem is when it comes to Man U, Citeh, Chelsea , Liverpool etc there are no under-priced players.  

At least we won the 2nd half though 

We need 4 players minimum.  2 CM, a left back and a forward.


----------



## Junior (Jan 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Rashford "true world class level" 😂😂😂
I rate him but he's not near that level yet.

The problem is you need more than 5 good players to make that team capable to get closer to City and Liverpool.

Going by the transfer fees in recent seasons it'll take more than £275m to improve that squad to compete.

With the right manager and signings you're right it could change but unless you're buying the real best players  it'll take 2 or 3 seasons to see a massive improvement. Have Yernited fans got the patience?

Right now there's no evidence to suggest any Complacency from Liverpool, the mentality klopp has instilled suggests there'll be no complacency if we win the league.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have the patience.  I honestly don't think swapping out and changing managers is the answer.   Give him 4 or 5 new players.  Each new manager you get sets you back.  Our best players this year have been the one's Ole has signed.  ......plus who's out there, only Poch really.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 8, 2020)

Junior said:



			The problem is when it comes to Man U, Citeh, Chelsea , Liverpool etc there are no under-priced players. 

At least we won the 2nd half though 

We need 4 players minimum.  2 CM, a left back and a forward.
		
Click to expand...

That's just short term.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 8, 2020)

Junior said:



			Yeah, I have the patience.  I honestly don't think swapping out and changing managers is the answer.   Give him 4 or 5 new players.  Each new manager you get sets you back.  Our best players this year have been the one's Ole has signed.  ......plus who's out there, only Poch really.
		
Click to expand...

I'd agree normally but this Yernited job is a massive rebuild squad wise which would take 3-5 seasons *if* the signings are right. You can afford 1 unsuccessful signing  not many more though.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 8, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Despite Ole being absolutely useless theres a core of a good side. De Gea, AWB, Maguire and McTominey are all very good players. Rashford is about to go to true world class level. Martial and Pogba will raise £150m as theres still people stupid enough to buy them for vast amounts. Throw in Man Utd's usual £125m of summer spend and with a world class manager and the right signings things would change quickly. A new striker, playmaker. left back and it's a totally new dynamic. City will be in big trouble once Pep goes in 2021 as you simply can't replace the best manager in the world. Liverpool are excellent but theres no guarentee once the title has landed complacency wouldn't set in.

Liverpool finished 6 or so points behind Man Utd 18 months ago, then something like 30 ahead the year after. Things change quick in football.

Man Utd's problem is Ed Woodwood. He made a huge mistake in giving Ole the job and is compounding it by making an even bigger mistake in not sacking him. His record in player recruitment is borderline professional neglect. Man Utd are dusted as long as he's CEO.
		
Click to expand...

Is that trolling at its finest or a serious post. 😳


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 8, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			mind you am going on about Jones when we have Otamendi 😖
		
Click to expand...

I'll top trump that with Mendy...How many times did he almost gift them a goal in the first half...


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 8, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Is that trolling at its finest or a serious post. 😳
		
Click to expand...

I'm hoping the latter 🤭🤭


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 8, 2020)

We need 4 players minimum.  2 CM, a left back and a forward.[/QUOTE]


Stuart_C said:



			I'd agree normally but this Yernited job is a massive rebuild squad wise which would take 3-5 seasons *if* the signings are right. You can afford 1 unsuccessful signing  not many more though.
		
Click to expand...

Stu al reply to you  coz I thinks it’s a serious post. A Utd fan quotes five players inc one going world class, then says 3 more players will make Utd fantastic. Now correct me if am wrong but football is played with 11 players not 8. Now look at City and who was sat on the bench last night, plus Sane and Laporte still out injured. Football at the highest level is not about your starting 8 or 11. It is the squad, and quite frankly Utds squad is wafer thin. Now look at pep and Klopp. They just crack on with it, they don’t have Woodward at the club making wrong decisions. The worst thing Utd could do is let OGS carry on at the helm.Hope he does though 😉


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 8, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			I'll top trump that with Mendy...How many times did he almost gift them a goal in the first half...
		
Click to expand...

yet reading on the City sites, they reckon he had a good game 😳 A lot of folk had rose tinted on last night.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 8, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			yet reading on the City sites, they reckon he had a good game 😳 A lot of folk had rose tinted on last night.
		
Click to expand...

I thought he was shocking and gave the ball away almost every time he had possession. He looks to play it back and inside so often and usually completely blind! Plus he seems so one-footed that his options are very limited - he did try a 5yd right foot pass, under no pressure, and missed his target. Don't get me started on their goal - he gave up long before Rashford hit his shot. No attempt to keep chasing just in case he was needed and stopped jogging at the edge of the box. I don't get why Pep plays him.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 8, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			I'll top trump that with Mendy...How many times did he almost gift them a goal in the first half...
		
Click to expand...

It’s a well known fact City are rubbish at the back and if you can get past the cynical fouling in midfield you have a chance against them.
You must stop them scoring at the other end though.
Lovely football as long as they have the ball,Peps way.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 8, 2020)

I'm not sure that Man Utd are that far off challenging at the top again. Add in 5 players and you have a decent first team..........

De Gea in goal. 

Back four - Wan Bissaka, McGuire, VVD (Liverpool), Robertson (Liverpool)

Midfield - McTominay & Fernandinho (Man City) holding with Pogba (or Kroos from RM if Pogba wants to go), Rashford, De Bruyne (Man City) in front of them

Forward - Kane (Spurs)

Would keep Martial, James, Fred, Greenwood, Pereira, Lindelof, Romero and there are probably a few other good youngsters. Then get rid of the rest and bring in a few others and you have the makings of a decent squad.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that Man Utd would be able to buy the 5/6 players that I have suggested it was more an example of how adding 5 players could make them competitive again.


----------



## Junior (Jan 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I'd agree normally but this Yernited job is a massive rebuild squad wise which would take 3-5 seasons *if* the signings are right. You can afford 1 unsuccessful signing  not many more though.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, I think we are about where you were in 2015-16 when Leicester won the league.  




Tashyboy said:



			We need 4 players minimum.  2 CM, a left back and a forward.
		
Click to expand...


Stu al reply to you  coz I thinks it’s a serious post. A Utd fan quotes five players inc one going world class, then says 3 more players will make Utd fantastic. Now correct me if am wrong but football is played with 11 players not 8. Now look at City and who was sat on the bench last night, plus Sane and Laporte still out injured. Football at the highest level is not about your starting 8 or 11. It is the squad, and quite frankly Utds squad is wafer thin. Now look at pep and Klopp. They just crack on with it, they don’t have Woodward at the club making wrong decisions. The worst thing Utd could do is let OGS carry on at the helm.Hope he does though 😉[/QUOTE]

You're right.  But, i'd also say Liverpool and City's squad isn't as strong as they'd like, City Especially need a CB.  A couple of injuries to key players and they'd struggle.   I think Utd need a 3 year plan and to chop and change managers before that isn't the way forward as you're just moving yourself back a year every time.  Like I said, our best players this year have been the one's Ole has signed.  Give him the 3 seasons, then make the call.  Woodward has to give him the £ to get those players though.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 8, 2020)

I think UTD are about 6 top signings away from the top teams 

GK - no issues 

Backline - it’s one of the most expensive in the league but massive gaps at LB and CB 

Midfield - McTomminey seems a decent player - a bit like Fletcher and does a job but is there anyone else ? Matic , Fred , Perira , Lingard ( 😂😂😂 ) - they seem nowhere near the level required. Then there is the Pogba issue - quality player but clearly doesn’t want to be there and maybe just doesn’t suit the Prem. So you could say that 3 players needed 

Forwards - Rashford is a quality player , but imo can’t play through the middle , same with Martial who doesn’t want to be there and James who is very direct with his pace. So prob need 2/3 players there as well 

That’s a lot of players needed but a lot of money as well- and when you consider that apparently City have only spent £80mil more since Ferguson left you have to ask where the money has gone 

UTD have big problems imo and OGS is not the person they need there - a good 5 years of very good recruitment away from challenging imo


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 8, 2020)

Utd are a very big club but will the top players want to come.
You need CL at the very least to attract these names.
That should be the first goal.
With CL footy you may get these stars but without it is a different story imo.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 8, 2020)

Shaw's good enough for them to be competitive. City won the title gaining over 100 points with Delph and Zinchenko making 25 appearances at LB in the PL. Shaw's decent enough.

I think signing Skriniar, Partey, Bruno Fernandes and Sancho would be enough to make them competitive on paper, just not sure Solskjaer's the man to get them there tactically.

Personally think an XI of De Gea, AWB, Maguire, Skriniar, Shaw, Partey, Pogba, Sancho, Fernandes, Martial and Rashford is strong enough to be competitive. Expensive to get there though, and then there's the question mark over the manager.


----------



## Junior (Jan 8, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think UTD are about 6 top signings away from the top teams

GK - no issues

Backline - it’s one of the most expensive in the league but massive gaps at LB and CB

Midfield - McTomminey seems a decent player - a bit like Fletcher and does a job but is there anyone else ? Matic , Fred , Perira , Lingard ( 😂😂😂 ) - they seem nowhere near the level required. Then there is the Pogba issue - quality player but clearly doesn’t want to be there and maybe just doesn’t suit the Prem. So you could say that 3 players needed

Forwards - Rashford is a quality player , but imo can’t play through the middle , same with Martial who doesn’t want to be there and James who is very direct with his pace. So prob need 2/3 players there as well

That’s a lot of players needed but a lot of money as well- and when you consider that apparently City have only spent £80mil more since Ferguson left you have to ask where the money has gone

UTD have big problems imo and OGS is not the person they need there - a good 5 years of very good recruitment away from challenging imo
		
Click to expand...

You never know......... You guys were 8th in 2016 and i'd say that's the level we are at now.   It took you 4 years to get to dominating the league so with the right players we can do it.   I think Ole is only doing his best with what is available.  I think its a player issue, not a manager one.   Changing manager every season wont make us improve.   Sadly, it's all going to come down to money , it doesnt matter whether City have spent £80m more than us,   if the money is there use it.   Get a wedge for Pogba and use that to help.

Maguire Lindleof and Bailly I think are capable CB.  Don't get me started on Jones.  I agree LB is a problem unless Shaw really pushes on.  Brandon Williams has also really impressed me.

Midfield is where we need to strengthen.  min 2 players, including a creative one.  (We've turned Rashford into more of a left winger)

Strikers, we need a couple.  Martial has the potential but we need more options up front. 



clubchamp98 said:



			Utd are a very big club but will the top players want to come.
You need CL at the very least to attract these names.
That should be the first goal.
With CL footy you may get these stars but without it is a different story imo.
		
Click to expand...

Money talks.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 8, 2020)

Junior said:



			I agree, I think we are about where you were in 2015-16 when Leicester won the league.  





Stu al reply to you  coz I thinks it’s a serious post. A Utd fan quotes five players inc one going world class, then says 3 more players will make Utd fantastic. Now correct me if am wrong but football is played with 11 players not 8. Now look at City and who was sat on the bench last night, plus Sane and Laporte still out injured. Football at the highest level is not about your starting 8 or 11. It is the squad, and quite frankly Utds squad is wafer thin. Now look at pep and Klopp. They just crack on with it, they don’t have Woodward at the club making wrong decisions. The worst thing Utd could do is let OGS carry on at the helm.Hope he does though 😉
		
Click to expand...

You're right.  But, i'd also say Liverpool and City's squad isn't as strong as they'd like, City Especially need a CB.  A couple of injuries to key players and they'd struggle.   I think Utd need a 3 year plan and to chop and change managers before that isn't the way forward as you're just moving yourself back a year every time.  Like I said, our best players this year have been the one's Ole has signed.  Give him the 3 seasons, then make the call.  Woodward has to give him the £ to get those players though.[/QUOTE]
Totally agree with you Junior, but City have had and still do have Laporte and Sane out with injuries. Utd are miles behind City who are behind liverpool. Utds next manager has a massive task ahead of him


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 8, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Shaw's good enough for them to be competitive. City won the title gaining over 100 points with Delph and Zinchenko making 25 appearances at LB in the PL. Shaw's decent enough.

I think signing Skriniar, Partey, Bruno Fernandes and Sancho would be enough to make them competitive on paper, just not sure Solskjaer's the man to get them there tactically.

Personally think an XI of De Gea, AWB, Maguire, Skriniar, Shaw, Partey, Pogba, Sancho, Fernandes, Martial and Rashford is strong enough to be competitive. Expensive to get there though, and then there's the question mark over the manager.
		
Click to expand...

That team without pogba but an able replacement is a step in the right direction.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jan 8, 2020)

LOL gotta love footy talk.
How many were saying at the start of the season "Liverpools squad isnt as good as, or isn't good enough..."
Perhaps instead of now saying how good the Liverpool squad is now, and how A team only needs x number of players, look at the most important man for any squad....the manager.
Perhaps OGS isn't good enough, perhaps Pep has issues with player selection and perhaps the Special One is about as a special as a pair of worn out old boots.


----------



## Slime (Jan 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Rashford "true world class level" 😂😂😂
I rate him but he's not near that level yet.

The problem is *you need more than 5 good players to make that team capable to get closer to City and Liverpool*.

Going by the transfer fees in recent seasons it'll take more than £275m to improve that squad to compete.

With the right manager and signings you're right it could change but unless you're buying the real best players  it'll take 2 or 3 seasons to see a massive improvement. Have Yernited fans got the patience?

Right now there's no evidence to suggest any Complacency from Liverpool, the mentality klopp has instilled suggests there'll be no complacency if we win the league.
		
Click to expand...

No, I think you are wrong.
We could comfortably do that with three.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 8, 2020)

Slime said:



			No, I think you are wrong.
We could comfortably do that with three.
		
Click to expand...

Really ? Interesting to know which areas only when you think it’s three .


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 8, 2020)

Slime said:



			No, I think you are wrong.
*We could comfortably do that with three.*

Click to expand...

That's a bold statement.


----------



## SteveW86 (Jan 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			That's a bold statement.
		
Click to expand...

Depends how you class closer....as Liverpool are near perfect this year UTD would only need to be 3 points better off so far next season to be “closer” to them. I think UTD could do that easily with 3 good signings.

I do think Slime means more than 3 points better off though. Either way UTD are in a bit of a downward spiral at the minute, OGS lacks motivation in my eyes so is always going to struggle in the job and can’t see them improving properly until he is gone


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 8, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Depends how you class closer....as Liverpool are near perfect this year UTD would only need to be 3 points better off so far next season to be “closer” to them. I think UTD could do that easily with 3 good signings.

I do think Slime means more than 3 points better off though. Either way UTD are in a bit of a downward spiral at the minute, OGS lacks motivation in my eyes so is always going to struggle in the job and can’t see them improving properly until he is gone
		
Click to expand...

I’m not so sure, slime thought Yernited had the better back 5 at the beginning of the season☺️☺️


----------



## SteveW86 (Jan 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I’m not so sure, slime thought Yernited had the better back 5 at the beginning of the season☺️☺️
		
Click to expand...

Does he not still think that?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 8, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Does he not still think that?
		
Click to expand...

Probably.

Being 3pts better off does mean they’re closer but that wasn’t what I meant.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I’m not so sure, slime thought Yernited had the better back 5 at the beginning of the season☺️☺️
		
Click to expand...

😂 it’s certainly the most expensive


----------



## SteveW86 (Jan 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Probably.

Being 3pts better off does mean they’re closer but that wasn’t what I meant.
		
Click to expand...

I know, I was just being pedantic. 

I think UTD are in a worrying downward spiral....not sure it’s a problem they can spend their way out of.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 8, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			I know, I was just being pedantic.

I think UTD are in a worrying downward spiral....not sure it’s a problem they can spend their way out of.
		
Click to expand...

It’s not worrying for me, rather the opposite 😂😂


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 8, 2020)

Junior said:



			The problem is when it comes to Man U, Citeh, Chelsea , Liverpool etc there are no under-priced players. 

At least we won the 2nd half though 

We need 4 players minimum.  2 CM, a left back and a forward.
		
Click to expand...

Thats just for the team, though Andy, you also then have to build up another 10-12 more players who are of the same or at least adequate standard to come in, as its a squad game now.

Everyone said when we bought the Ox "but where does he fit in the team" - I said at the time that we needed to flesh out the squad, as otherwise as soon as we have 3-4 injuries the bench starts to see many 18 year olds on it, same with Keita.

This season, we have regularly played Henderson, Milner, Wijnaldum, Fabinho, Keita, Ox and recently Lallana. That is 7 players fighting for 3 positions as rarely do we not play a 3 main midfield. Milner also covers LB and the OX one of the front 3 on occasion.

I think Mctominay looks like a future mainstay, after that......

Pogba - his priority is himself not the team.
Lingard - nowhere near the player of 2 years ago.
Fred - not to standard
Matic - getting older, still very good on his day, but is he the future
Pereira - I still dont know what type of player he is.
Mata - for me never even got close to what he did in his last year or two at Chelsea

2 CM may be good for the team, but you are slowly also going to have to get a squad behind it, as well.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			That's a bold statement.
		
Click to expand...

Don't forget, they have the "best back 5" to build upon.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 8, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Don't forget, they have the "best back 5" to build upon. 

Click to expand...

How could I forget 😉😁

Filed alongside Sawtooths 70 odd point prediction for Liverpool 😊😊


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 8, 2020)

One thing that most fans talk about now is "buying" to improve, and generally expensive signings being the general panacaea.

Including myself, when we only bought Andy Robbo, we were disappointed in that transfer window. TAA has come through, Gomez (when not injured) has been nurtured through the reserves. Milner was free, Hendo is improving as each season goes by, Ox a different player to the Arsenal vintage, Fabinho one of the best holding midfielders in Europe.

Mane and Salah turned into world class players, even getting a tune out of Origi.

The only one that I would say that he hasnt improved (yet) is Keita, but is increasing showing more signs of the player we thought we had signed, just needs a run without injuries.

More importantly, if he doesnt improve them, they dont last long (like Mignolet).

I dont see any sign that OGS is a great coach. He has assimilated Macguire and AWB into the side, Rashford is improving (couldnt get any worse the way Mourinho handled him).

I certainly wont write off Man U, but they need 4-5 for the team, another 5-6 to have a great squad, and thats if they all work out. Can he coach them into a cohesive unit, with a playing style? I'm doubtful.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 8, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Don't forget, they have the "best back 5" to build upon. 

Click to expand...

It’s debatable that they have the best back 5 in Manchester.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			How could I forget 😉😁

Filed alongside Sawtooths 70 odd point prediction for Liverpool 😊😊
		
Click to expand...

TBF Sawtooth didnt say if that would be by Feb or March.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 8, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			It’s debatable that they have the best back 5 in Manchester.
		
Click to expand...

Ok, so you've seen "class of 92" - show off.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 8, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ok, so you've seen "class of 92" - show off. [/QUOTE

I would not watch that.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Slime (Jan 9, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Really ? Interesting to know which areas only when you think it’s three .
		
Click to expand...

Two top midfielders and another striker would considerably improve United.
We currently have Fred in midfield, there's nobody else of any standard who is currently fit.



Stuart_C said:



			That's a bold statement.
		
Click to expand...

See above.


----------



## Slime (Jan 9, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂 it’s certainly the most expensive
		
Click to expand...

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
That's probably the funniest one liner in the history of one liners.
Get off your horse and pat yourself on the back, Phil.


----------



## rksquire (Jan 9, 2020)

I used to 'hate' Man Utd, now I just feel sorry for them, which seems to anger my Man Utd friends more!  

I think they need quite a bit of squad improvement and tactical improvement. A keeper (De Gea, good keeper but will not get back to the quality he had a few seasons ago), a CB, a LB an entire midfield to supplement McTominay, and at least one forward;  of the current crop, Rashford, Greenwood, McTominay, Martial, AWB, Maguire are worth their status, with possbily a few others as squad players only.  Tactically, bizarrely, Utd are actually better without the ball but they need a lot more invention when they enjoy the lions share of possession.  OGS policy of addressing this seems to be to tell Rashford to shoot at every opportunity.


----------



## Junior (Jan 9, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			One thing that most fans talk about now is "buying" to improve, and generally expensive signings being the general panacaea.

Including myself, when we only bought Andy Robbo, we were disappointed in that transfer window. TAA has come through, Gomez (when not injured) has been nurtured through the reserves. Milner was free, Hendo is improving as each season goes by, Ox a different player to the Arsenal vintage, Fabinho one of the best holding midfielders in Europe.

Mane and Salah turned into world class players, even getting a tune out of Origi.

The only one that I would say that he hasnt improved (yet) is Keita, but is increasing showing more signs of the player we thought we had signed, just needs a run without injuries.

More importantly, if he doesnt improve them, they dont last long (like Mignolet).

I dont see any sign that OGS is a great coach. He has assimilated Macguire and AWB into the side, Rashford is improving (couldnt get any worse the way Mourinho handled him).

I certainly wont write off Man U, but they need 4-5 for the team, another 5-6 to have a great squad, and thats if they all work out. Can he coach them into a cohesive unit, with a playing style? I'm doubtful.
		
Click to expand...

Once again, wise words and I agree with what you say. 

I still think its a player issue, not a managerial one.  I believe changing coaches will only set us back. The few times i've been this year I have seen a marked improvement in 'attitude' and energy of the payers.  A desire to score and go forward that was previously lost under Jose, LVG, Moyes.   I like what Ole is trying to do, I just don't think he has the players. Building a younger , hungry side is a good start and mixed with the 4-5 to improve the team I think can see us compete.  We're a few years off but i see where we are trying to go, and, for the first time in 3 managers I like that we are "trying" to attack more.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 9, 2020)

Slime said:



			Two top midfielders and another striker would considerably improve United.
We currently have Fred in midfield, there's nobody else of any standard who is currently fit.



See above.
		
Click to expand...

I would disagree but can see why you would say three only 



Slime said:



			Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
That's probably the funniest one liner in the history of one liners.
Get off your horse and pat yourself on the back, Phil.
		
Click to expand...

Let’s be honest if the situation was reversed and I made a bold claim like yours which was shown to be a bit too bold and Liverpool were doing as bad as UTD right now ( as we have in the past ) you would most certainly react in the same way , and it’s a little bit of football banter. Remember we have had a couple of decades being behind UTD and been on the receiving on the end of the banter


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 9, 2020)

I got sent a WhatsApp earlier, only just got round to reading (most, it’s very long) it. 

Grand old team, conscious uncoupling. 

Wow! 🤣🤣


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 9, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			I got sent a WhatsApp earlier, only just got round to reading (most, it’s very long) it.

Grand old team, conscious uncoupling.

Wow! 🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

https://www.grandoldteam.com/2020/01/07/conscious-uncoupling/

😂😂😂😂


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 9, 2020)

Junior said:



			Once again, wise words and I agree with what you say.

I still think its a player issue, not a managerial one.  I believe changing coaches will only set us back. The few times i've been this year I have seen a marked improvement in 'attitude' and energy of the payers.  A desire to score and go forward that was previously lost under Jose, LVG, Moyes.   I like what Ole is trying to do, I just don't think he has the players. Building a younger , hungry side is a good start and mixed with the 4-5 to improve the team I think can see us compete.  We're a few years off but i see where we are trying to go, and, for the first time in 3 managers I like that we are "trying" to attack more.
		
Click to expand...

the few times I have seen Utd, I have been a bit confused as to what kind of a football style they are trying to play. Watching City and Liverpool I get it. Arteta at Arsenal, I already get it. But Utd I scratch my head. Bringing in X number of players what are they being coached. what system. Think a few players and new coach is going to take time. Depending on how many hundreds of millions are spent. A Manchester club spending money to get on the top table. Terrible. 😁


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 9, 2020)

Junior said:



			Once again, wise words and I agree with what you say.

I still think its a player issue, not a managerial one.  I believe changing coaches will only set us back. The few times i've been this year I have seen a marked improvement in 'attitude' and energy of the payers.  A desire to score and go forward that was previously lost under Jose, LVG, Moyes.   I like what Ole is trying to do, I just don't think he has the players. Building a younger , hungry side is a good start and mixed with the 4-5 to improve the team I think can see us compete.  We're a few years off but i see where we are trying to go, and, for the first time in 3 managers I like that we are "trying" to attack more.
		
Click to expand...

TBH, its good to see a view that isn't "just sack the manager", which is the default position of most footy fans these days.

Although I dont share your confidence, I do understand the angle of patience and even being willing to potentially take the club a few steps back or sideways before the steps forward. A club legend always gets a bit more leeway, and just like we were defensive of Kenny when he came back, sometimes a club just needs to stop, assess and stop the merry-go-round of messiah/mess up.......again. OGS may just end up being the stabilising force or he may end up building something over 2-3 seasons, but I would have thought that if United go this and next season without CL, his time will probably be up, although he would have then had at least 4 transfer windows to put the team more in his image. It may not still necessarily be a great achievement with Spurs/ Arsenal and Chelsea also being in stasis, but it will keep funds coming in, and potentially a better standard of player, but if he doesnt sponsors/income/lustre will start to suffer.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 9, 2020)

So what are Spurs going to do now 

6 points off top 4 and Kane out until April 

Are they going to spend on a striker or stick with Son and Moura especially when they are struggling at fullback and in the middle of the park.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 9, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So what are Spurs going to do now

6 points off top 4 and Kane out until April

Are they going to spend on a striker or stick with Son and Moura especially when they are struggling at fullback and in the middle of the park.
		
Click to expand...

Spending big dosh on a striker is a gamble. Once he’s fit that striker becomes a sub, I can’t see JM playing with 2 strikers


----------



## Beezerk (Jan 10, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So what are Spurs going to do now

6 points off top 4 and Kane out until April

Are they going to spend on a striker or stick with Son and Moura especially when they are struggling at fullback and in the middle of the park.
		
Click to expand...

Same as last time Kane was out for a few months, win just about every game


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 10, 2020)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51052156

If Utd are looking for a target man Who can score goals.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 10, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1215344871969624064
Anyone fancy joining a new 5-a-side team?


----------



## rksquire (Jan 10, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			I got sent a WhatsApp earlier, only just got round to reading (most, it’s very long) it.

Grand old team, conscious uncoupling.

Wow! 🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...




Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.grandoldteam.com/2020/01/07/conscious-uncoupling/

😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Isn't their 'coupling' to Liverpool the only thing that makes Everton relevant?  Hilarious piece, but not in the way the author intended!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 10, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51052156

If Utd are looking for a target man Who can score goals.
		
Click to expand...

He did a great job for us at Everton, the same for West Brom beforehand. What he is not is versatile, he has his way and you need to play to that. If you do he will score goals for you, if you don't then ............He is also a player that needs a bit of love. Not sure he got that at Utd.

I never understand teams who buy a player and then expect to change their fundamental style of play and what made them the player they bought.


----------



## Fish (Jan 10, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Same as last time Kane was out for a few months, win just about every game 

Click to expand...

This was very noticeable.

Imo, they didn’t feel the need to pass to him at every opportunity, Ali wasn’t looking for him like his life depended on it, they played more as a team, I’d rather Kane play than not, for selfish reasons 😏

Yes he can sniff out a goal, but I think they overplay situations when he’s in the team and more chances come to nothing.

I hope he gets fit quick 😜


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 10, 2020)

Cenk Tosun goes to Palace on loan for the rest of the season.  A Big Sam January buy it never really happened for him. Good luck to him, he came across as an honest player. Hopefully Niasse will be next off the books.

The question for palace is why get a striker who has failed to score goals to replace Benteke who has failed to score goals? Hodgson must see something in him but I'd be a tad underwhelmed if I was a Palace fan.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 10, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Cenk Tosun goes to Palace on loan for the rest of the season.  A Big Sam January buy it never really happened for him. Good luck to him, he came across as an honest player. Hopefully Niasse will be next off the books.

The question for palace is why get a striker who has failed to score goals to replace Benteke who has failed to score goals? Hodgson must see something in him but I'd be a tad underwhelmed if I was a Palace fan.
		
Click to expand...

I guess from Tosun's point of view, if he's going to get game time at Palace it has to be a good thing. Sometimes a different manager can get a player engaged and inspired so he may make an impact at Palace. I agree with your assessment that he seems an honest player


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 10, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I guess from Tosun's point of view, if he's going to get game time at Palace it has to be a good thing. Sometimes a different manager can get a player engaged and inspired so he may make an impact at Palace. I agree with your assessment that he seems an honest player
		
Click to expand...

It's a no brainer for him, particularly as Turkey have qualified for the Euro's and he wants to be there. You are absolutely right and maybe a fresh start is all he needs.


----------



## Slime (Jan 10, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51052156

If Utd are looking for a target man Who can score goals.
		
Click to expand...

Some say he's just a flat-track bully!
I bet they're feeling pretty stupid now.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 10, 2020)

Slime said:



			Some say he's just a flat-track bully!
I bet they're feeling pretty stupid now. 

Click to expand...

Serie A is one big flat track 😉


----------



## Slime (Jan 10, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Serie A is one big flat track 😉
		
Click to expand...

Thought so!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 10, 2020)

Slime said:



			Thought so!
		
Click to expand...

His record against the top teams is there for all to see 👍


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 10, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's a no brainer for him, particularly as Turkey have qualified for the Euro's and he wants to be there. You are absolutely right and maybe a fresh start is all he needs.
		
Click to expand...

I imagine game time would have been a big factor if he wants to feature for Turkey and I do think as a man manager Hodgson is really good so I think he'll find a way to get him playing with confidence again.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 10, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Cenk Tosun goes to Palace on loan for the rest of the season.  A Big Sam January buy it never really happened for him. Good luck to him, he came across as an honest player. Hopefully Niasse will be next off the books.

The question for palace is why get a striker who has failed to score goals to replace Benteke who has failed to score goals? Hodgson must see something in him but I'd be a tad underwhelmed if I was a Palace fan.
		
Click to expand...

I said earlier in the thread how Everton have been mismanaged for many years.  How Allardyce was allowed to spend £40m+ on 2 players while on a 18months contract is  beyond me.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 10, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I said earlier in the thread how Everton have been mismanaged for many years.  How Allardyce was allowed to spend £40m+ on 2 players while on a 18months contract is  beyond me.
		
Click to expand...

Panic appointment, no more complicated than that. Hopefully they have learnt a lesson but I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## fundy (Jan 10, 2020)

lolol if thats handball


----------



## Beezerk (Jan 10, 2020)

What a joke, that's not handball during normal play but VAR say it is on a technicality.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 10, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			What a joke, that's not handball during normal play but VAR say it is on a technicality.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree. Yet again VAR overshadows. When will the powers that be see common sense and realise its killing the game


----------



## Swango1980 (Jan 10, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Totally agree. Yet again VAR overshadows. When will the powers that be see common sense and realise its killing the game
		
Click to expand...

I don't think they'll change anything this year, as they don't wanna change the boundaries mid way through. I guess they feel it is fairer to keep the farce going rather than trying to intervene asap.

At least we can all write this season off, and make liverpool's first Premier league win unofficial.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 10, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I imagine game time would have been a big factor if he wants to feature for Turkey and I do think as a man manager Hodgson is really good so I think he'll find a way to get him playing with confidence again.
		
Click to expand...

Like he has with Benteke


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 11, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Cenk Tosun goes to Palace on loan for the rest of the season.  A Big Sam January buy it never really happened for him. Good luck to him, he came across as an honest player. Hopefully Niasse will be next off the books.

The question for palace is why get a striker who has failed to score goals to replace Benteke who has failed to score goals? Hodgson must see something in him but I'd be a tad underwhelmed if I was a Palace fan.
		
Click to expand...

Think he'll do okay at Palace. When he first came in I thought he was going to be a good signing, and always had a soft spot for him after he scored in the first game I took my Dad to at Goodison, but just hasn't happened for him. Get service into him though and he will score goals, his finishing is more than decent. He'll work hard for the team, presses really well, holds the ball up well but his movement's not great, can go missing in games (hence his goalscoring record), but if he's determined to get a spot in the Euros squad then Palace could get some goals out of him.


----------



## Fish (Jan 11, 2020)

OMG 😳

Is Son lost 😜


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 11, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Think he'll do okay at Palace. When he first came in I thought he was going to be a good signing, and always had a soft spot for him after he scored in the first game I took my Dad to at Goodison, but just hasn't happened for him. *Get service into him though and he will score goals, his finishing is more than decent. He'll work hard for the team, presses really well, holds the ball up well *but his movement's not great, can go missing in games (hence his goalscoring record), but if he's determined to get a spot in the Euros squad then Palace could get some goals out of him.
		
Click to expand...

He sounds like he'd be a perfect fit for Everton 🤭


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 11, 2020)

Fish said:



			OMG 😳

Is Son lost 😜

View attachment 28926

Click to expand...

without Kane I don’t think so.
He normally plays better when Kane’s not playing.


----------



## Fish (Jan 11, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			without Kane I don’t think so.
He normally plays better when Kane’s not playing.
		
Click to expand...

I gather you didn't spot his bag!

At our ground early, then god knows how he'll get over to North London if he's watching us first, then going by his shirt, fly off to watch Spatak Moscow


----------



## fundy (Jan 11, 2020)

Stunning ball from Lacazette and Aubam not missing from there

lets hope Palace continue to sit as deep for the rest of the game (surely not)


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 11, 2020)

Fish said:



			I gather you didn't spot his bag!

At our ground early, then god knows how he'll get over to North London if he's watching us first, then going by his shirt, fly off to watch Spatak Moscow 

Click to expand...

Yes I did .
He shops for friends back home probably.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 11, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			He sounds like he'd be a perfect fit for Everton 🤭
		
Click to expand...

I expected him to be tbh, just wasn't consistent enough, and his movement is poor meaning he's rarely in the right place. Just didn't work out, like I said though, I still have a soft spot for him. I like Cenk and hope he succeeds at Palace.

Can't see him having much of an impact at Palace based on this first half though, they've been dreadful. Have they been this bad to watch all season? Only other game of theirs I've watched was the Everton game at Selhurst, what a miserable game of football that was.


----------



## fundy (Jan 11, 2020)

games dead lol, RIP football


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 11, 2020)

Think the refs got that right !
Attackers tend to get away with bad challenges like that.
So at least VAR has evened that up.


----------



## fundy (Jan 11, 2020)

Anyone know what the Palace fans have done with their anti VA banner? They seem to have misplaced it on all accounts


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 11, 2020)

Heh, 2nd half has been really entertaining after what was a really drab 1st half. Wouldn't have bet on that.


----------



## fundy (Jan 11, 2020)

get up Zaha


----------



## fundy (Jan 11, 2020)

get up Pepe


----------



## fundy (Jan 11, 2020)

10 men, away from home, losing Torreira at HT, only conceded to a deflection and then their keeper pulls off a world class save, guess it couldve been worse and we'll take a point.


----------



## Slime (Jan 11, 2020)

That was not a pretty tackle.
I hope the injury is not as bad as it looked.


----------



## chrisd (Jan 11, 2020)

So disappointed, dropping points to a mid table side 😣


----------



## Fish (Jan 11, 2020)

That’ll do 💙

Saints restore some pride with a win against Leicester. 

The late kick off could be interesting, or is it a given 🤔


----------



## Slime (Jan 11, 2020)

A decent victory against a team in the relegation zone!
You couldn't make it up.

Mata was awesome, who'd have thought?


----------



## fundy (Jan 11, 2020)

like watching city these tactical fouls from Liverpool in the middle of the park, ref not interested either it seems


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 11, 2020)

I feel dirty watching this. I want both teams to lose. Might just go feed the cats.


----------



## fundy (Jan 11, 2020)

Robertson must have booked himself to be carded lol, the only problem hes got is the refs the one that laid it haha


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 11, 2020)

Fish said:



			That’ll do 💙

Saints restore some pride with a win against Leicester.

The late kick off could be interesting, or is it a given 🤔
		
Click to expand...

a given 😃

Hey Davy Pap wtmotd bro?


----------



## Fish (Jan 11, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			a given 😃
		
Click to expand...

Only because teams don’t take their chances, Liverpool in many matches have been there for the taking, but nobody has taken their opportunities, which was very different to the City run last season when they didn’t give the opposition any chances. 

Whilst the current run is impressive, it hasn’t been a commanding performance all the time, they’ve rode their luck a fair few times, and as such I personally don’t think it can last, based on that observation.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 11, 2020)

fundy said:



			Robertson must have booked himself to be carded lol, the only problem hes got is the refs the one that laid it haha
		
Click to expand...

Should have been red


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2020)

Fish said:



			Only because teams don’t take their chances, Liverpool in many matches have been there for the taking, but nobody has taken their opportunities, which was very different to the City run last season when they didn’t give the opposition any chances.

Whilst the current run is impressive, it hasn’t been a commanding performance all the time, they’ve rode their luck a fair few times, and as such I personally don’t think it can last, based on that observation.
		
Click to expand...

Good old lucky Liverpool 😃😃


----------



## fundy (Jan 11, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Should have been red
		
Click to expand...

the first one for sure, second one was probably only a yellow though once he hadnt been carded for the first one lol


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 11, 2020)

Choo choo......Next stop Anfield

Dominated the game, sloppy in parts but overall deserved winners. 

Tasty game next week against the PL's best defence 🤭🤭


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 11, 2020)

Fish said:



			Only because teams don’t take their chances, Liverpool in many matches have been there for the taking, but nobody has taken their opportunities, *which was very different to the City run last season when they didn’t give the opposition any chances.*

Whilst the current run is impressive, it hasn’t been a commanding performance all the time, they’ve rode their luck a fair few times, and as such I personally don’t think it can last, based on that observation.
		
Click to expand...

Most teams never laid a glove on city over the last 2 seasons, they'd won the games in the dressing room most weeks. Still had to go out and do the job though and like a great side they did. 

No pictures  on scorecards Fishy son 😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 11, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Should have been red
		
Click to expand...

Load of rubbish. 1st one was a stupid  foul and worthy of a yellow card. the 2nd was a 50/50 and the Spurs lad was a fraction late to the ball. Robbo wins the ball and catches him with the follow through.


----------



## Piece (Jan 11, 2020)

Fish said:



			Only because teams don’t take their chances, Liverpool in many matches have been there for the taking, but nobody has taken their opportunities, which was very different to the City run last season when they didn’t give the opposition any chances.

Whilst the current run is impressive, it hasn’t been a commanding performance all the time, they’ve rode their luck a fair few times, and as such I personally don’t think it can last, based on that observation.
		
Click to expand...

Blimey, tough crowd! If that’s Liverpool being lucky and ready for the taking, hate to think what happens when they hit their straps! 🤣😜


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 11, 2020)

Fish said:



			Only because teams don’t take their chances, Liverpool in many matches have been there for the taking, but nobody has taken their opportunities, which was very different to the City run last season when they didn’t give the opposition any chances.

Whilst the current run is impressive, it hasn’t been a commanding performance all the time, they’ve rode their luck a fair few times, and as such I personally don’t think it can last, based on that observation.
		
Click to expand...

To be honest Fishcake, IF we win the league, I couldn’t give a flying fickle what’s thought of my team


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 11, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Choo choo......Next stop Anfield

Dominated the game, sloppy in parts but overall deserved winners.

Tasty game next week against the PL's best defence 🤭🤭
		
Click to expand...

Can’t agree 
Spurs had plenty of chances as Fish pointed out and deserved something out the game.
Robertson was high and red all day for me.
Another 3 points  though


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2020)

Piece said:



			Blimey, tough crowd! If that’s Liverpool being lucky and ready for the taking, hate to think what happens when they hit their straps! 🤣😜
		
Click to expand...

Graham Le Saux has said that the league is tight and the challengers are expecting Liverpool to slip up 👍


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 11, 2020)

Spurs chances all came from our mistakes.
Should have been all over after 60 mins.
Very poor finishing from both teams imo.
How you can get red for winning the ball and following through is inevitable.
Tackling will be banned soon.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 11, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Graham Le Saux has said that the league is tight and the challengers are expecting Liverpool to slip up 👍
		
Click to expand...

Isn’t he one of the more intelligent footballers.


----------



## Piece (Jan 11, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Graham Le Saux has said that the league is tight and the challengers are expecting Liverpool to slip up 👍
		
Click to expand...

🤔🤪😆😱😜. Was he shock-jocking per chance?


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 11, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Spurs chances all came from our mistakes.
Should have been all over after 60 mins.
Very poor finishing from both teams imo.
How you can get red for winning the ball and following through is inevitable.
Tackling will be banned soon.
		
Click to expand...

So Spurs created nothing themselves?
So Kompanys foul on Salah is an ok tackle now.
You couldn’t make it up.
Oh yes you can


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 11, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			So Spurs created nothing themselves?
So Kompanys foul on Salah is an ok tackle now.
You couldn’t make it up.
Oh yes you can
		
Click to expand...

Hard to create anything with 11 men in your own half ,it should have been over by half time.
I don’t remember Kompany getting red much even though he was a habitual chopper but got away with it.
Your doing ok yourself.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 11, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			So Spurs created nothing themselves?
*So Kompanys foul on Salah is an ok *tackle now.
You couldn’t make it up.
Oh yes you can
		
Click to expand...

Kompany's foul was a yellow card and I said so at the time. infact in real time I thought it was a great tackle.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 11, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Hard to create anything with 11 men in your own half ,it should have been over by half time.
I don’t remember Kompany getting red much even though he was a habitual chopper but got away with it.
Your doing ok yourself.
		
Click to expand...

Have a word with yourself
You said Spurs created nothing themselves ,that’s complete rubbish.
Liverpool fans were moaning for weeks about Kompanys tackle on the follow through.Robertson also raked a player on purpose.
Watch the game again and tell me Spurs created nothing themselves because we are watching a different game.
I bet Alison was the busiest keeper on saves made.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 11, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Kompany's foul was a yellow card and I said so at the time. infact in real time I thought it was a great tackle.
		
Click to expand...

Was you at the game today and if so can you correct CC


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2020)

Piece said:



			🤔🤪😆😱😜. Was he shock-jocking per chance?
		
Click to expand...

Apparently not 😲 

Long way to go yet though 😫


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 11, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Was you at the game today and if so can you correct CC
		
Click to expand...

I cant correct CC's, that's his opinion. I dont think Spurs deserved anything out of the game. yes they created chances but apart from Lo Celso's sitter everything else was straight at Alisson. 

We dominated Possession and at times played like it was a training session. We were also sloppy at times which let them into the game but overall I thought we were in control of the game.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 11, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Have a word with yourself
You said Spurs created nothing themselves ,that’s complete rubbish.
Liverpool fans were moaning for weeks about Kompanys tackle on the follow through.Robertson also raked a player on purpose.
Watch the game again and tell me Spurs created nothing themselves because we are watching a different game.
I bet Alison was the busiest keeper on saves made.
		
Click to expand...

Their chances came from our mistakes .until the last 20 mins you hardly sent anyone forward 
The finishing was dire from spurs . But not great from us.
Robbo got the ball then followed through , it’s impossible at that speed not to follow through .
A different game yes I think we were.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I cant correct CC's, that's his opinion. I dont think Spurs deserved anything out of the game. yes they created chances but apart from Lo Celso's sitter everything else was straight at Alisson.

We dominated Possession and at times played like it was a training session. We were also sloppy at times which let them into the game but overall I thought we were in control of the game.
		
Click to expand...

Think that about sums it up for me - it wasn’t a great game , we missed some great chances early , impressed with their young defender - the Robbo tackle , surprised they didn’t call it back and send him off - certainly caught him dangerously


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 11, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Was you at the game today and if so can you correct CC
		
Click to expand...

Why do you need someone to back your opinion.
I have my own opinions which don’t agree with yours , that’s football.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 11, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Think that about sums it up for me - it wasn’t a great game , we missed some great chances early , impressed with their young defender - the Robbo tackle , surprised they didn’t call it back and send him off - certainly caught him dangerously
		
Click to expand...

Totally disagree about the Robbo tackle. Both went in for the ball Robbo won the ball then took  the man. It was a good strong fair tackle, he was in control it wasnt reckless nor dangerous.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 11, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Their chances came from our mistakes .until the last 20 mins you hardly sent anyone forward
The finishing was dire from spurs . But not great from us.
Robbo got the ball then followed through , it’s impossible at that speed not to follow through .
A different game yes I think we were.
		
Click to expand...

So now it’s the last 20 minutes,make your mind up


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Totally disagree about the Robbo tackle. Both went in for the ball Robbo won the ball then took  the man. It was a good strong fair tackle, he was in control it wasnt reckless nor dangerous.
		
Click to expand...

He got the ball yep but then the foot landed studs squarely on the players shin - it’s one that we have seen red cards given for hence why I’m surprised they didn’t go back it


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 11, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			So now it’s the last 20 minutes,make your mind up
		
Click to expand...

Typical JM team sit back , hope for a mistake.
If it hasn’t happened by 60 mins then have a go.
Seen it to many times.
But his previous teams had strikers that took their chances.
Guy in the box nearly hit the corner flag from three yd’s.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 11, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I cant correct CC's, that's his opinion. I dont think Spurs deserved anything out of the game. yes they created chances but apart from Lo Celso's sitter everything else was straight at Alisson. 

We dominated Possession and at times played like it was a training session. We were also sloppy at times which let them into the game but overall I thought we were in control of the game.
		
Click to expand...

I agree and as you say they created chances

Thought Alison was very assured


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 11, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He got the ball yep but then the foot landed studs squarely on the players shin - it’s one that we have seen red cards given for hence why I’m surprised they didn’t go back it
		
Click to expand...

They might of looked at it ,but they don’t tell us.
That’s a problem with VAR we don’t know what they look at and what they don’t only what the commentators tell us.


----------



## Fish (Jan 11, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Graham Le Saux has said that the league is tight and the challengers are expecting Liverpool to slip up 👍
		
Click to expand...

I think they’ll slip up as far as being unbeaten, but the league is done & dusted, we’ve thrown away more than 10 points at home against bottom dwellers that would have seen us as runners up currently when we’re supposed to be struggling down in 6th or lower, but then City have lost some stupid matches also, so I think 2nd to 4th will stay the same, but not necessarily in the same order, signings in this window could make a difference to some teams, but not enough to catch Liverpool, unless they implode, which I can’t see happening, unfortunately.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 11, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Typical JM team sit back , hope for a mistake.
If it hasn’t happened by 60 mins then have a go.
Seen it to many times.
But his previous teams had strikers that took their chances.
Guy in the box nearly hit the corner flag from three yd’s.
		
Click to expand...

You make a lot of good points however you exaggerated your points about all Spurs chances being from your mistakes which is so far from the truth.


----------



## Ye Olde Boomer (Jan 11, 2020)

Fenway Sports Group which owns the Liverpool PL team also owns my Boston Red Sox baseball team.

They seem to be doing better by you than they're doing by me right now.

Can any of your strikers or what-ever-the-hell they are pitch a decent fastball?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 11, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			You make a lot of good points however you exaggerated your points about all Spurs chances being from your mistakes which is so far from the truth.
		
Click to expand...

FFS MOST of spurs chances came from our mistakes is that ok for you or do you need more.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 11, 2020)

Fish said:



			I think they’ll slip up as far as being unbeaten, but the league is done & dusted, we’ve thrown away more than 10 points at home against bottom dwellers that would have seen us as runners up currently when we’re supposed to be struggling down in 6th or lower, but then City have lost some stupid matches also, so I think 2nd to 4th will stay the same, but not necessarily in the same order, signings in this window could make a difference to some teams, but not enough to catch Liverpool, unless they implode, which I can’t see happening, unfortunately.
		
Click to expand...

On current form it's hard to see where they'll drop points, the mentality within the squad is immense.

Most of the lads I know arent bothered about going unbeaten, yes it's a great achievement but its not the be all and end all. OGAAT is the mentality most of us have adopted.


----------



## Captainron (Jan 11, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			On current form it's hard to see where they'll drop points, the mentality within the squad is immense.

Most of the lads I know arent bothered about going unbeaten, yes it's a great achievement but its not the be all and end all. OGAAT is the mentality most of us have adopted.
		
Click to expand...

They could drop points if they sew up the league and concentrate on the cups?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 11, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			I agree and as you say they created chances

Thought Alison was very assured
		
Click to expand...

He's had as much of an impact on our team as VVD has had. He's world class.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			He's had as much of an impact on our team as VVD has had. He's world class.
		
Click to expand...

Best GK in the World - just outstanding in every aspect


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 11, 2020)

Captainron said:



			They could drop points if they sew up the league and concentrate on the cups?
		
Click to expand...

I said that today to Odman. If the league is won mid April and were still in the CL he could introduce more young lads though I doubt he will if everyone is fit and raring to go.

But, the mentality has changed for the better and Klopp has insisted that its only ever about the next game, keep focused on that and the rest takes care of itself.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 11, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			FFS MOST of spurs chances came from our mistakes is that ok for you or do you need more.
		
Click to expand...

No that’s fine
Your playing well so no point exaggerating.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 11, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			No that’s fine
Your playing well so no point exaggerating.
		
Click to expand...

I was not exaggerating but sometimes what you type is not what your thinking.
Spurs were so negative imo in the first half but still had chances to score.
I find it very frustrating when 1-0 up and missing chances.
As I said finishing was poor from both sides.

On the Robbo tackle thought it was good he actually pointed his toe to win the ball.
But the one on Auldevireld was very petty And he was lucky.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 11, 2020)

Nice to see Danny Ings playing well and scoring.
He was very unlucky with his injury’s at Liverpool.
That looked a great game to watch.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 11, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I said earlier in the thread how Everton have been mismanaged for many years.  How Allardyce was allowed to spend £40m+ on 2 players while on a 18months contract is  beyond me.
		
Click to expand...

Should have had more?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 11, 2020)

How’s that not a penalty on Walcott ,?
No wonder players go down.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 11, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Kompany's foul was a yellow card and I said so at the time. infact in real time I thought it was a great tackle.
		
Click to expand...

It was a red all day long.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 12, 2020)

Robertson knew it was a nasty challenge,had a quick look up faked injury himsel.


----------



## GG26 (Jan 12, 2020)

Leicester are a Jeckyll and Hyde team atm.  Just didn’t turn up against Southampton yesterday (reminded me of the Liverpool game) and should have been three down by half time.  Europe still seems a long way off.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 12, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Totally disagree about the Robbo tackle. Both went in for the ball Robbo won the ball then took  the man. It was a good strong fair tackle, he was in control it wasnt reckless nor dangerous.
		
Click to expand...

Watched it again this morning totally agree with you , got the ball , strong yes and don’t think it’s even a foul on second look


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 12, 2020)

Have to laugh at Sky trying to big up the match next week - as if United stand a chance


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 12, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Watched it again this morning totally agree with you , got the ball , strong yes and don’t think it’s even a foul on second look
		
Click to expand...

Blimey that’s some U turn.
And we expect refs to get decisions right.
Maybe we should let them sleep on it 😂


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 12, 2020)

I'm having to turn over from the city game, it's becoming embarrassing and hard to watch. It is not lack of effort, just a gulf in class. More importantly, STOP PLAYING OUT FROM THE BACK.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 12, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Blimey that’s some U turn.
And we expect refs to get decisions right.
Maybe we should let them sleep on it 😂
Lol
You couldn’t make it up
That’s hockey players for you
		
Click to expand...


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 12, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm having to turn over from the city game, it's becoming embarrassing and hard to watch. It is not lack of effort, just a gulf in class. More importantly, STOP PLAYING OUT FROM THE BACK.
		
Click to expand...

Spooky I was just saying that to my son bloody stupid.
Leicester did it against Liverpool and it was obvious to see it was a disaster waiting to happen.
I could see it,maybe I should be getting 3 million a year


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 12, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Spooky I was just saying that to my son bloody stupid.
Leicester did it against Liverpool and it was obvious to see it was a disaster waiting to happen.
I could see it,maybe I should be getting 3 million a year
		
Click to expand...

Managers seem to have lost all sense on this. The players are so intent on playing this way that they must be under the strictest of strict instruction. So many goals are given away, from a range of teams. It's crackers.

Can I be your assistant for £1m?  Every manager needs an assistant and I'll bring kitkats to training and occasionally give other blindingly obvious advice that seems to have been forgotten.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 12, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Managers seem to have lost all sense on this. The players are so intent on playing this way that they must be under the strictest of strict instruction. So many goals are given away, from a range of teams. It's crackers.

Can I be your assistant for £1m?  Every manager needs an assistant and I'll bring kitkats to training and occasionally give other blindingly obvious advice that seems to have been forgotten.
		
Click to expand...

I agree .
To play this way you need the players .
You also need players in front of them to receive the ball and lots of movement.
Most teams don’t have them


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 12, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Managers seem to have lost all sense on this. The players are so intent on playing this way that they must be under the strictest of strict instruction. So many goals are given away, from a range of teams. It's crackers.
Spot on
Of course you can I love kitkats
Can I be your assistant for £1m?  Every manager needs an assistant and I'll bring kitkats to training and occasionally give other blindingly obvious advice that seems to have been forgotten.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Bazzatron (Jan 12, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm having to turn over from the city game, it's becoming embarrassing and hard to watch. It is not lack of effort, just a gulf in class. More importantly, STOP PLAYING OUT FROM THE BACK.
		
Click to expand...

Bournemouth did the same earlier and got spanked.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 12, 2020)

After being written off a while back , Watford have climbed out of the relegation zone with Villa dropping in 

I think we can safely say that Norwich will go down - so who is filling up the other two spots ?

Villa - struggling badly with injuries and just don’t have a goalscorer 

Bournemouth- another team struggling with injuries , will they scrape through ?

West Ham - Moyes needs to work quick to mould a team , also don’t seem to have a goalscorer

Watford - think they will stay up , Deeney being back is key for them 

Then it’s Newcastle, Brighton , Burnley 

For me it’s going to be Villa and Brighton


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 12, 2020)

I know I'm biased but Ageuro more than worthy of the goal-scoring records he's collecting...what a player


----------



## richart (Jan 12, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			I know I'm biased but Ageuro more than worthy of the goal-scoring records he's collecting...what a player 

Click to expand...

Needs to sort his hair out though. He will have years of being grey when he is old.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 12, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			I know I'm biased but Ageuro more than worthy of the goal-scoring records he's collecting...what a player 

Click to expand...

Not biased- one of the best if not the best Striker seen in the Prem era , I know he won’t score as many as soon ahead of him but I would take him over those ahead of him. Brilliant truly world class player still


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 12, 2020)

richart said:



			Needs to sort his hair out though. He will have years of being grey when he is old.

Click to expand...

Yes but he still has a choice.
Unlike some of us.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 12, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not biased- one of the best if not the best Striker seen in the Prem era , I know he won’t score as many as soon ahead of him but I would take him over those ahead of him. Brilliant truly world class player still
		
Click to expand...

Yes I would also take him over shearer now.
Who’s ahead?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 12, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Yes I would also take him over shearer now.
Who’s ahead?
		
Click to expand...

Shearer,Rooney and Cole


----------



## fundy (Jan 12, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not biased- one of the best if not the best Striker seen in the Prem era , I know he won’t score as many as soon ahead of him but I would take him over those ahead of him. Brilliant truly world class player still
		
Click to expand...


Still Henry for me, biased or not


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 12, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not biased- one of the best if not the best Striker seen in the Prem era , I know he won’t score as many as soon ahead of him but I would take him over those ahead of him. Brilliant truly world class player still
		
Click to expand...

I'd defo have him ahead of Shearer but just Behind Origi.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 12, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Shearer,Rooney and Cole
		
Click to expand...

Think I would take Aguero over Cole


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 12, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Shearer,Rooney and Cole
		
Click to expand...

Hasn't Sergio played a lot less games than those three? Shearer made 400+ I think?


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 12, 2020)

fundy said:



			Still Henry for me, biased or not 

Click to expand...

I loved to watch him play and travelled to a few Arsenal games in the Midlands simply for that privilege.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 12, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Hasn't Sergio played a lot less games than those three? Shearer made 400+ I think?
		
Click to expand...

Yes to date he's 200 games behind Shearer and needs 84 iirc.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 12, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Hasn't Sergio played a lot less games than those three? Shearer made 400+ I think?
		
Click to expand...

Yep all three had over 400plus games where as Aguero and Henry both under 300 - goal per game ratio is superb


----------



## fundy (Jan 12, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			I loved to watch him play and travelled to a few Arsenal games in the Midlands simply for that privilege.
		
Click to expand...

was very very fortunate for a large chunk of my match going years to have had Wright, then Wright and Bergkamp and then Henry and Bergkamp (ignoring the likes of Viera, Petit, Anelka, Overmars Pires Ljundberg etc), Henry or Bergkamp especially were worth the entry money on their own!


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 12, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Think I would take Aguero over Cole
		
Click to expand...

Not Rooney or Shearer?


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 12, 2020)

fundy said:



			was very very fortunate for a large chunk of my match going years to have had Wright, then Wright and Bergkamp and then Henry and Bergkamp (ignoring the likes of Viera, Petit, Anelka, Overmars Pires Ljundberg etc), Henry or Bergkamp especially were worth the entry money on their own!
		
Click to expand...

Henry had something of the Federer about him - floats across the ground with ease. Bergkamp so skillful and good to watch. My best friend Jane (sadly no longer with us) was crazy about Arsenal and had a huge crush on Tony Adams . Because of her I've always had a soft spot for them.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 12, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Not Rooney or Shearer?
		
Click to expand...

No I think Rooney was best
Shearer would be  even better in good team like Liverpool or City now.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 12, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			No I think Rooney was best
Shearer would be  even better in good team like Liverpool or City now.
		
Click to expand...

Rooney better than Aguero?

Different types of strikers but not too sure I agree.


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 12, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Rooney better than Aguero?

Different types of strikers but not too sure I agree.
		
Click to expand...

And we’re all shocked...


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 12, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Hasn't Sergio played a lot less games than those three? Shearer made 400+ I think?
		
Click to expand...

To be fair to Shearer in his last few years he played in a poor Newcastle team and his knees were shot. He became a hold up player, his legs had gone, rather than a goalscorer and was knocked black and blue. Did a great job for a poor team still but it will distort his figures.

Aguero is a world class player and I'd have him in my team but stats, as we all know, don't give the full facts.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 12, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			And we’re all shocked...
		
Click to expand...

🙄🙄


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 12, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Hard to create anything with 11 men in your own half ,it should have been over by half time.
I don’t remember Kompany getting red much even though he was a habitual chopper but got away with it.
Your doing ok yourself.
		
Click to expand...

3 reds and 59 yellows in his prem career 👍


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 12, 2020)

GG26 said:



			Leicester are a Jeckyll and Hyde team atm.  Just didn’t turn up against Southampton yesterday (reminded me of the Liverpool game) and should have been three down by half time.  Europe still seems a long way off.
		
Click to expand...

I mentioned to my lad earlier that Leicester are doing this year what they did when they won the title, picking up points when other teams are taking points off one another.with the exception of Liverpool this year.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 12, 2020)

Oddly enough when it comes to Aguero, he has not won many personal awards. That aside his apprentice who is earmarked to take over from him ( Gabriel Jesus) also has very impressive stats, but there are rumours over whether he will stay at City or not. Apparently he is a bit Bovril. Me I like him. Today we have two centre forwards, last game v Utd, none. 😳


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 12, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Oddly enough when it comes to Aguero, he has not won many personal awards. That aside his apprentice who is earmarked to take over from him ( Gabriel Jesus) also has very impressive stats, but there are rumours over whether he will stay at City or not. Apparently he is a bit Bovril. Me I like him. Today we have two centre forwards, last game v Utd, none. 😳
		
Click to expand...

I think he's more like Marmite . He's not convinced me yet but he has huge shoes to fill.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 12, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			I think he's more like Marmite . He's not convinced me yet but he has huge shoes to fill.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂Bovril.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 12, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			a given 😃

Hey Davy Pap wtmotd bro?
		
Click to expand...

No idea. Don't have it here in Portugal 😂😂


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 12, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			I know I'm biased but Ageuro more than worthy of the goal-scoring records he's collecting...what a player 

Click to expand...

I agree in terms of a goalscorer extraordinaire, but if it was to pay to see a player, I would have Henry above him.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 12, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			3 reds and 59 yellows in his prem career 👍
		
Click to expand...

Yes his 3 reds were pre VAR .
In today’s games he would be off more I am sure.
But other news.
How good is Sergio, he is one of my faves ,quality striker who makes a few goals himself.
But paying to see someone Sir Kenny Dalglish.


----------



## Swingalot (Jan 12, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			After being written off a while back , Watford have climbed out of the relegation zone with Villa dropping in

I think we can safely say that Norwich will go down - so who is filling up the other two spots ?

Villa - struggling badly with injuries and just don’t have a goalscorer

Bournemouth- another team struggling with injuries , will they scrape through ?

West Ham - Moyes needs to work quick to mould a team , also don’t seem to have a goalscorer

Watford - think they will stay up , Deeney being back is key for them

Then it’s Newcastle, Brighton , Burnley

For me it’s going to be Villa and Brighton
		
Click to expand...

Would love you to be right with Brighton, but think Burnley, Bournemouth and Norwich


----------



## Piece (Jan 13, 2020)

Let me add some more VAR controversy. 

One of our Watford players, Pererya, was sent off for violent conduct by the ref in FA Cup game v Tranmere last week. The game had VAR in it. VAR saw no reason to overturn and confirmed the red. Watford appealed and it was overturned by committee. This implies that not only was the ref wrong but so too the VAR, despite several replays.

FWIW, I thought it was a red and should have stayed so.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 13, 2020)

Piece said:



			Let me add some more VAR controversy. 

One of our Watford players, Pererya, was sent off for violent conduct by the ref in FA Cup game v Tranmere last week. The game had VAR in it. VAR saw no reason to overturn and confirmed the red. Watford appealed and it was overturned by committee. This implies that not only was the ref wrong but so too the VAR, despite several replays.

FWIW, I thought it was a red and should have stayed so.
		
Click to expand...

Which endorses  what I have been saying, refs got it wrong last season etc. Yet they are governing VAR and still getting it wrong. 
Look at aubameyang was his tackle malicious. I dont think so, but his studs were up and people scream foul play could of broke his leg. VAR sys red, Yet robertson won his tackle with studs up and it's ok coz he was following through. Even though he still could of broke a leg. I mentioned this months  ago that any tackle that can cause Injury is a red.But was shouted down.
VAR am off coz al be here all morning.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 13, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Which endorses  what I have been saying, refs got it wrong last season etc. Yet they are governing VAR and still getting it wrong.
Look at aubameyang was his tackle malicious. I dont think so, but his studs were up and people scream foul play could of broke his leg. VAR sys red, Yet robertson won his tackle with studs up and it's ok coz he was following through. Even though he still could of broke a leg. I mentioned this months  ago that any tackle that can cause Injury is a red.But was shouted down.
VAR am off coz al be here all morning.
		
Click to expand...

Difference is Robbo got the ball. How do you do that without following through?
Watch it again he has his toe pointed studs looking at the ground , his studs come up after he has won the ball.
Aubamayang didn’t he was nowhere near getting the ball..


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 13, 2020)

Piece said:



			Let me add some more VAR controversy.

One of our Watford players, Pererya, was sent off for violent conduct by the ref in FA Cup game v Tranmere last week. The game had VAR in it. VAR saw no reason to overturn and confirmed the red. Watford appealed and it was overturned by committee. This implies that not only was the ref wrong but so too the VAR, despite several replays.

FWIW, I thought it was a red and should have stayed so.
		
Click to expand...

Blind leading the Blind.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 13, 2020)

I wonder if the board have had a word with him or his "self-reflection" is really self imposed https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51088079 

Bournemouth are definitely struggling but Howe is seen as a good manager often touted when other jobs come up so what is going wrong at Bournemouth. Are injuries and a small squad solely to blame? How long will he be given and is he/the players good enough to get out of trouble


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Difference is Robbo got the ball. How do you do that without following through?
Watch it again he has his toe pointed studs looking at the ground , his studs come up after he has won the ball.
Aubamayang didn’t he was nowhere near getting the ball..
		
Click to expand...

The only thing I didn’t like from either tackle was studs up. The guy that Robertson caugh, his studs were not raised hence less chance of injury. How many professional fouls do City commit. One or two I would say, but none have the potential for serious injury. For me, studs up whether you injure someone or not, win the ball or not yellow minimum.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 13, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Which endorses  what I have been saying, refs got it wrong last season etc. Yet they are governing VAR and still getting it wrong.
Look at aubameyang was his tackle malicious. I dont think so, but his studs were up and people scream foul play could of broke his leg. VAR sys red, Yet robertson won his tackle with studs up and it's ok coz he was following through. Even though he still could of broke a leg. I mentioned this months  ago that any tackle that can cause Injury is a red.But was shouted down.
VAR am off coz al be here all morning.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, cos all fouls can cause injury, so shall we make every tackle a red then?

Son's on Gomez was one of the most innocuous tackles you could see, but look at the damage it caused.

Aubameyang's wasnt malicious but was highly dangerous, as was Robbos. One distinction is that one actually did get the ball, although both equally could have done the same damage.

When it comes to tackling one size doesnt fit all.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 13, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			The only thing I didn’t like from either tackle was studs up. The guy that Robertson caugh, his studs were not raised hence less chance of injury. How many professional fouls do City commit. One or two I would say, but none have the potential for serious injury. For me, studs up whether you injure someone or not, win the ball or not yellow minimum.
		
Click to expand...

So City are nice foulers, then?

Jeez.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 13, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			The only thing I didn’t like from either tackle was studs up. The guy that Robertson caugh, his studs were not raised hence less chance of injury. How many professional fouls do City commit. One or two I would say,* but none have the potential for serious injury.* For me, studs up whether you injure someone or not, win the ball or not yellow minimum.
		
Click to expand...

Seriously ?








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1054038595718275076


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 13, 2020)

Now then look at the last three posters/ likes. common denominator, well who do they support.
My post was studs up, not all tackles as was mentioned by who 🤔. Tell me this, does all tackles have to be studs up. Robertson's was, the other player wasn't. Apparently Liverpool are the new City when it comes to nice fouls 👍
What the Liverpool posse need to look at is an opinion where it involves Liverpool and its players and fans is not always a dig at them. It is an example, an opinion. That's all.👍


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 13, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Now then look at the last three posters/ likes. common denominator, well who do they support.
My post was studs up, not all tackles as was mentioned by who 🤔. Tell me this, does all tackles have to be studs up. Robertson's was, the other player wasn't. Apparently Liverpool are the new City when it comes to nice fouls 👍
What the Liverpool posse need to look at is an opinion where it involves Liverpool and its players and fans is not always a dig at them. It is an example, an opinion. That's all.👍
		
Click to expand...

Firstly, I didnt jump to the defence of the Liverpool player, as I equally said that it was dangerous, but if your gonna spout she....hite, be prepared to be pulled up.

Aubas tackle was studs down, but equally as dangerous.

I think we know when tackles are dangerous, but when you try and make football black and white decisions your on a loser, as lots of other factors come into account. Speed of tackle, intent, danger, area of the pitch, professional or not (you should have more of an idea on this as most) , defenders on the cover, breakaway/transition and much more.


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 13, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I wonder if the board have had a word with him or his "self-reflection" is really self imposed https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51088079

Bournemouth are definitely struggling but Howe is seen as a good manager often touted when other jobs come up so what is going wrong at Bournemouth. Are injuries and a small squad solely to blame? How long will he be given and is he/the players good enough to get out of trouble
		
Click to expand...

I've always felt Howe was overrated. Last season they conceded 70 goals! The year before that 61, which was more than two of the relegated teams, and the season before that they finished 9th having conceded a whopping 67. Howe has done an impressive job to establish them where they are but he's been there forever and still hasn't sorted out a passable defence. I thought links of him getting top jobs were well wide of the mark. Right now they've only scored 1 in their last 5 games - and when you concede as many as they do, when the goals dry up the outcome is inevitable.


----------



## Jensen (Jan 13, 2020)

Orikoru, what's your opinion now on Jose Mourinho now, and his style of football?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I've always felt Howe was overrated. Last season they conceded 70 goals! The year before that 61, which was more than two of the relegated teams, and the season before that they finished 9th having conceded a whopping 67. Howe has done an impressive job to establish them where they are but he's been there forever and still hasn't sorted out a passable defence. I thought links of him getting top jobs were well wide of the mark. Right now they've only scored 1 in their last 5 games - and when you concede as many as they do, when the goals dry up the outcome is inevitable.
		
Click to expand...

I agree that if you can't score and can't keep a clean sheet there is only one outcome. Mind you looking at this link https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/afc-bournemouth/sperrenundverletzungen/verein/989  there does seem to be the heart of the defence out injured so I am sure they are playing squad players or players out of position. Even so you'd expect Howe to get them organised and as your stats show, defending has been an issue for several seasons. As I know from Fulhams short term PL tenure, if you don't score enough and can't defend you're down. I think on currently form, Norwich are gone and Bournemouth will go if they can't stop leaking goals. That leaves one. Can the Pearson revival continue or can Villa find a way to win, especially ugly? I can still see both plus West Ham and Burnley all getting into a relegation dogfight


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 13, 2020)

Good old talksport were talking about Aguero tonight in regards him being the highest Foriegn goalscorer and the question was - is he the best foreign striker seen in the Prem era ? And where did he sit in regards when you add in the English

Made me think which would be my top 5 foriegn and top 5 overall

Foriegn -

1. Henry
2. Aguero
3. Suarez
4. Van Nistelrooy
5. Torres

Overall

1. Henry
2. Aguero
3. Shearer
4. Suarez
5. Rooney/Fowler/Kane ( couldn’t split them )


----------



## Beezerk (Jan 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes to date he's 200 games behind Shearer and needs 84 iirc.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah but Shearer played for Newcastle


----------



## fundy (Jan 13, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Good old talksport were talking about Aguero tonight in regards him being the highest Foriegn goalscorer and the question was - is he the best foreign striker seen in the Prem era ? And where did he sit in regards when you add in the English

Made me think which would be my top 5 foriegn and top 5 overall

Foriegn -

1. Henry
2. Aguero
3. Suarez
4. Van Nistelrooy
5. Torres

Overall

1. Henry
2. Aguero
3. Shearer
4. Suarez
5. Rooney/Fowler/Kane ( couldn’t split them )
		
Click to expand...


not that youd have a Liverpool bias or me an Arsenal one but pretty sure Van Persies stats will stack up well against Suarez and Torres!


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 13, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Good old talksport were talking about Aguero tonight in regards him being the highest Foriegn goalscorer and the question was - is he the best foreign striker seen in the Prem era ? And where did he sit in regards when you add in the English

Made me think which would be my top 5 foriegn and top 5 overall

Foriegn -

1. Henry
2. Aguero
3. Suarez
4. Van Nistelrooy
5. Torres

Overall

1. Henry
2. Aguero
3. Shearer
4. Suarez
5. Rooney/Fowler/Kane ( couldn’t split them )
		
Click to expand...

Not a bad list on the foreign side, I think Drogba deserves to be in the conversation. He took a while to get going but on his day was absolutely unstoppable. 

Rooney is an odd, I almost don't consider him a striker, he was almost more of a number 10 or 'second striker' for me. Yes he played up top but not exclusively, whereas the others there are all out-and-out strikers. Makes it hard to compare Rooney to them.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 13, 2020)

Interesting thoughts on the tackles and the Rice handball https://www.skysports.com/football/...e-room-on-handball-rule-says-dermot-gallagher


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			not that youd have a Liverpool bias or me an Arsenal one but pretty sure Van Persies stats will stack up well against Suarez and Torres!
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about RVP, as he was quite average and injury prone for a lot of his early Arsenal years. He had two or three world class seasons and then went a bit off the boil again.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			not that youd have a Liverpool bias or me an Arsenal one but pretty sure Van Persies stats will stack up well against Suarez and Torres!
		
Click to expand...

I believe RvP is a goal every other game 
Suarez was 70 in 110 
And Torres when at Liverpool was 65 in 100 

But i was going on more than just the stats


----------



## fundy (Jan 13, 2020)

144 goals in 280 games
85 goals in 212 games
69 goals in 110 games

One of them is a long way 3rd, the other 2 are pretty close (strike rate against longevity).


----------



## fundy (Jan 13, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I believe RvP is a goal every other game 
Suarez was 70 in 110 
And Torres when at Liverpool was 65 in 100 

But i was going on more than just the stats
		
Click to expand...

yeah of course, youre going on the Liverpool shirt (as shown by only counting Torres stats when at Liverpool)


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			yeah of course, youre going on the Liverpool shirt (as shown by only counting Torres stats when at Liverpool)
		
Click to expand...

Yes because that’s when he was at his best before his serious knee injury that lost him his crucial pace - judging the player at his peak. I would take a peak Torres over a peak RvP - it wasn’t “ which player is statistically “ the best .


----------



## fundy (Jan 13, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes because that’s when he was at his best before his serious knee injury that lost him his crucial pace - judging the player at his peak. I would take a peak Torres over a peak RvP - it wasn’t “ which player is statistically “ the best .
		
Click to expand...

yet you use Torres stats from his peak pre injury against Van Persies stats from his whole time in the premier league, not as if RVP was ever injured is it lol

apples and pears


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 13, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Orikoru, what's your opinion now on Jose Mourinho now, and his style of football?
		
Click to expand...

I don't know what you mean. We've only kept one clean sheet in the league under him so far, he could make us more defensive if anything. Granted he has not improved us a great deal over Poch yet. We need to invest since Aurier is useless, and he doesn't seem to rate Vertonghen or maybe reckons he's past it. Can't wait for Lloris to come back as well, Gazzaniga is poor.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			yet you use Torres stats from his peak pre injury against Van Persies stats from his whole time in the premier league, not as if RVP was ever injured is it lol

apples and pears 

Click to expand...

My opinion wasn’t based on stats alone as I have already stated - I wasn’t using anyone stats against anyone - it wasn’t yourself that brought stats into it

If you want to have RvP over Torres then please do so 👍 all about opinions


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 13, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			The only thing I didn’t like from either tackle was studs up. The guy that Robertson caugh, his studs were not raised hence less chance of injury. How many professional fouls do City commit. One or two I would say, but none have the potential for serious injury. For me, studs up whether you injure someone or not, win the ball or not yellow minimum.
		
Click to expand...

One or two?
You must have gone home after 30mins.


----------



## Jensen (Jan 14, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I don't know what you mean. We've only kept one clean sheet in the league under him so far, he could make us more defensive if anything. Granted he has not improved us a great deal over Poch yet. We need to invest since Aurier is useless, and he doesn't seem to rate Vertonghen or maybe reckons he's past it. Can't wait for Lloris to come back as well, Gazzaniga is poor.
		
Click to expand...

From what I've seen the style is different, he doesn't play "The Press". Which I preferred as its more exciting and tends to keep the opposition more on the back foot. I know it's early days, but thought he would have improved the defence. It's been 1 step forward then another back. Some of the games have been with us sitting back behind the ball and just trying to exploit mistakes made by the opposition.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 14, 2020)

Jordan Henderson 2019 England player of The Year. 

European Cup winner
Super cup Winner
Club World Cup winner 

What a 18months he's had. 

Well in Jordan lad.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Jordan Henderson 2019 England player of The Year.

European Cup winner
Super cup Winner
Club World Cup winner

What a 18months he's had.

Well in Jordan lad.
		
Click to expand...

Nice to see you take an interest in the National side.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 14, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Nice to see you take an interest in the National side. 

Click to expand...

Always interested just not a lover or follower 😉 its all over my Twitter feed too, just checked Ingurland are 11/2 favourites for the euro’s 😂😂😂


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Always interested just not a lover or follower 😉 its all over my Twitter feed too, just checked Ingurland are 11/2 favourites for the euro’s 😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

So that means if you put a tenner on @ 11/2 you’ll lose a tenner. 😂😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 14, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So that means if you put a tenner on @ 11/2 you’ll lose a tenner. 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

You’ve cracked it 👍🏻


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Jordan Henderson 2019 England player of The Year.

European Cup winner
Super cup Winner
Club World Cup winner

What a 18months he's had.

Well in Jordan lad.
		
Click to expand...

Unsung hero while all the others take the plaudits.
Has filled in very well while we had injury’s.
Can’t be many captains picked up them trophy’s in a season.
Just hope the lad picks the PL up as well.


----------



## Dando (Jan 14, 2020)

Nice to see lecelso has been attending the Harry Kane school of diving


----------



## User62651 (Jan 14, 2020)

Looking for advice on possibly acquiring tickets for Man City v Real Madrid game. Tickets are not available yet from the club website other than to season ticket holders, anyone know when would they be available to general public and if they cant be had from the club direct of all the ticketing companies selling them who would you recommend as trustworthy?  Is this likely to be sold out?


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 14, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			Looking for advice on possibly acquiring tickets for Man City v Real Madrid game. Tickets are not available yet from the club website other than to season ticket holders, anyone know when would they be available to general public and if they cant be had from the club direct of all the ticketing companies selling them who would you recommend as trustworthy?  Is this likely to be sold out?
		
Click to expand...

heyup maxfil me man, am not sure if they will be available to the general public. If I get five mins tomorrow I will give them a ring and find out. I rang them a year or so ago to ask for another ticket for a game and they told me to do one as I had not signed up to the cup scheme.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 14, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			One or two?
You must have gone home after 30mins.

Click to expand...

said in jest CC gotta put the corn down 😁


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Jordan Henderson 2019 England player of The Year.

European Cup winner
Super cup Winner
Club World Cup winner

What a 18months he's had.

Well in Jordan lad.
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully we won’t have to listen to you banging on about him being underrated now 😉


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 14, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Good old talksport were talking about Aguero tonight in regards him being the highest Foriegn goalscorer and the question was - is he the best foreign striker seen in the Prem era ? And where did he sit in regards when you add in the English

Made me think which would be my top 5 foriegn and top 5 overall

Foriegn -

1. Henry
2. Aguero
3. Suarez
4. Van Nistelrooy
5. Torres

Overall

1. Henry
2. Aguero
3. Shearer
4. Suarez
5. Rooney/Fowler/Kane ( couldn’t split them )
		
Click to expand...

I guess Cantona was around pre-google so I’ll let you off.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 14, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Unsung hero while all the others take the plaudits.
Has filled in very well while we had injury’s.
Can’t be many captains picked up them trophy’s in a season.
Just hope the lad picks the PL up as well.
		
Click to expand...

I‘m not a massive fan of his in all honesty, I expect more from a CM playing the 8 role.
But, credit where its due his all round performances in different positions have been excellent. At times he does a specific job for the good of the team. 

His trophy lifts are a thing of beauty though. world class.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 14, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Hopefully we won’t have to listen to you banging on about him being underrated now 😉
		
Click to expand...

I’ve never said such thing.


----------



## Fish (Jan 15, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Jordan Henderson 2019 England player of The Year.

European Cup winner
Super cup Winner
Club World Cup winner

What a 18months he's had.

Well in Jordan lad.
		
Click to expand...

If this was any other player or club, I'm confident you'd dismiss the Super Cup & World Cup as nothing more than commercial friendlies and not real competitions per se.

#TheLiverpoolLoveIn......


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 15, 2020)

Fish said:



			If this was any other player or club, I'm confident you'd dismiss the Super Cup & World Cup as nothing more than commercial friendlies and not real competitions per se.

#TheLiverpoolLoveIn......
		
Click to expand...

Now you’d be wrong and not for the 1st time fishy 😉 

At least to win those 2 trophies you‘ve had to have won a trophy to qualify. Both trophies are UEFA/FIFA competitions that have been around for 50yrs or more, both much more than commercial friendlies unlike the charity shield.

i mean it’s not on the same level as the Citeh classing the charity sheild as part of  the “quadruple” 😃


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 15, 2020)

Foreign:

1. Henry
2. Cantona
3. Aguero
4. Drogba
5. Van Nistelrooy

Overall:

1. Henry
2. Shearer
3. Cantona
4. Rooney
5. Aguero

Would have liked to have got Bergkamp and Suarez in there, but couldn't workout who to drop. Cantona was such a huge figure for me, he was the guy when I first started watching football and was totally enthralled whenever he played. The comeback goal against Liverpool, the FA Cup final goal, the lob against Sunderland, iconic player of the PL era and had to be included.


----------



## Wolf (Jan 15, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Foreign:

1. Henry
2. Cantona
3. Henry
4. Drogba
5. Van Nistelrooy

Overall:

1. Henry
2. Shearer
3. Cantona
4. Rooney
5. Aguero

Would have liked to have got Bergkamp and Suarez in there, but couldn't workout who to drop. Cantona was such a huge figure for me, he was the guy when I first started watching football and was totally enthralled whenever he played. The comeback goal against Liverpool, the FA Cup final goal, the lob against Sunderland, iconic player of the PL era and had to be included.
		
Click to expand...

Well you've got Henry in there twice so that would free up space 😂


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 15, 2020)

Haha damnit. Have edited, 2nd Henry was meant to be Aguero


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 15, 2020)

Drogba’s largely a myth.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 15, 2020)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51090816

hmm professionals supporting the dark arts, who would of thought it.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 15, 2020)

Spurs have signed Gedson on an 18 month loan, incredible young talent, and if my Football Manager research is correct, by 20/21 with Gedson and Ndombele in midfield they're going to win the league. FM never lies.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 15, 2020)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51114011
sweet mother Taylor is on over £2 million a year and the PFA charity is under investigation 🤔


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 15, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51090816

hmm professionals supporting the dark arts, who would of thought it.
		
Click to expand...

Why are you so desperate to vindicate Pep’s cynical fouling tactics? It works. That’s all that matters, surely?


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 15, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Spurs have signed Gedson on an 18 month loan, incredible young talent, and if my Football Manager research is correct, by 20/21 with Gedson and Ndombele in midfield they're going to win the league. FM never lies.
		
Click to expand...

Never heard of this bloke - the consequence of not owning the latest Fifa or FM anymore.


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 15, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51090816

hmm professionals supporting the dark arts, who would of thought it.
		
Click to expand...




Kellfire said:



			Why are you so desperate to vindicate Pep’s cynical fouling tactics? It works. That’s all that matters, surely?
		
Click to expand...

It's not like it's a new thing. From the description it sounds like the one Solskjaer did all those years ago against.. Newcastle? If you take your punishment on the chin (red card) then no problem.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 15, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			Looking for advice on possibly acquiring tickets for Man City v Real Madrid game. Tickets are not available yet from the club website other than to season ticket holders, anyone know when would they be available to general public and if they cant be had from the club direct of all the ticketing companies selling them who would you recommend as trustworthy?  Is this likely to be sold out?
		
Click to expand...

maxfli, been onto City today, in essence tickets for the game went on sale to season ticket holders on Monday TIL today. Tomorrow you can order them but only if you are a Citizen member. They do not know if they will sell tickets to the general public as they do not know if there will be any left. Ticket prices are £45-£75 for adults and £15 for kids. Now if you know anyone with a season ticket they can order one on there ticket for them, plus another. Ave already ordered four tickets so unfortunately unable to help in that sense. Gonna post on a City site and see if they will let me know if and when they go on sale to Joe public


----------



## User62651 (Jan 15, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			maxfli, been onto City today, in essence tickets for the game went on sale to season ticket holders on Monday TIL today. Tomorrow you can order them but only if you are a Citizen member. They do not know if they will sell tickets to the general public as they do not know if there will be any left. Ticket prices are £45-£75 for adults and £15 for kids. Now if you know anyone with a season ticket they can order one on there ticket for them, plus another. Ave already ordered four tickets so unfortunately unable to help in that sense. Gonna post on a City site and see if they will let me know if and when they go on sale to Joe public
		
Click to expand...

 thanks, I did register as a cityzen last year so I'm ok for getting a chance, I'll check tomorrow, it's still restricted just now.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 15, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



 thanks, I did register as a cityzen last year so I'm ok for getting a chance, I'll check tomorrow, it's still restricted just now.
		
Click to expand...

dib in early me man, ours are sat in block 137 behind the goals, £45 👍


----------



## 4LEX (Jan 15, 2020)

It's Man City......they'll be tickets left! Give away more tickets than England Ladies to make the ground look full 

As for Aguero v Henry.....no comparison. Aguero is a world class version of Michael Owen. Henry was the best player in the country, if not Europe from 2003-2006. Averaged over 30 goals a season and created more than any midfielder.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 15, 2020)

4LEX said:



			It's Man City......they'll be tickets left! Give away more tickets than England Ladies to make the ground look full 

As for Aguero v Henry.....no comparison. Aguero is a world class version of Michael Owen. Henry was the best player in the country, if not Europe from 2003-2006. Averaged over 30 goals a season and created more than any midfielder.
		
Click to expand...

you can do if you get away with handball twice, ask any Irishman 🤔😖😉


----------



## Dando (Jan 15, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51090816

hmm professionals supporting the dark arts, who would of thought it.
		
Click to expand...

He’ll be a city next year- just the sort of player they like


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 15, 2020)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51119002

Not good 😡😡


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 15, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51119002

Not good 😡😡
		
Click to expand...

Same for all clubs & they’ve got plenty of time to prepare for it 👍🏻


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 15, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51119002

Not good 😡😡
		
Click to expand...

It's traditional spot. 
Should never have changed. 

If you sign an African player, deal with it.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 15, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51090816

hmm professionals supporting the dark arts, who would of thought it.
		
Click to expand...

It’s disgusting !
What does that teach young footballers.
Wonder what camp Gomes of Everton’s in.


----------



## Ye Olde Boomer (Jan 15, 2020)

Liverpool ownership just fired their baseball manager in Boston....  

he said to nobody in particular.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 16, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			It’s disgusting !
What does that teach young footballers.
Wonder what camp Gomes of Everton’s in.
		
Click to expand...

That’s been happening for years, I quite like it the game needs it At times.


----------



## Bazzatron (Jan 16, 2020)

We desperately need some new players, squad's tiny and the season is danger of fizzling out as the players look absolutely dead. They need to back Nuno or the worst could happen.


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 16, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			It’s disgusting !
What does that teach young footballers.
Wonder what camp Gomes of Everton’s in.
		
Click to expand...

 Every manager and every team mate in the world would be annoyed if he didn’t make the tackle.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 16, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Same for all clubs & they’ve got plenty of time to prepare for it 👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

That's why they have big squads!!!

Clubs have lost their African players for this competition for ages so hardly something new is it

On a separate note, not a great decision by OGS to play Rashford last night https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51129714


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Every manager and every team mate in the world would be annoyed if he didn’t make the tackle.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I know but that dosnt make it right.
Giving him Man of the match is just wrong.

There’s so much wrong with football this is just one of them, it’s put me off going for a while now.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			That’s been happening for years, I quite like it the game needs it At times.
		
Click to expand...

I completely disagree.
I see why but just don’t condone cheating in any sport.

Imagine Tiger tripping Rory up on the 18th because he was 1 shot ahead.
Silly I know , but principals seem to go out the window when it comes to winning in footy.


----------



## Beezerk (Jan 16, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I completely disagree.
I see why but just don’t condone cheating in any sport.

Imagine Tiger tripping Rory up on the 18th because he was 1 shot ahead.
Silly I know , but principals seem to go out the window when it comes to winning in footy.
		
Click to expand...

It isn't cheating IMO, it's taking a card for the team. Happens in every game every week in every league, it's just not as clear as that at times. 
You're in the final minute of a cup final and you're going to give a striker a free run on goal? I don't think so 🤕😁


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			It isn't cheating IMO, it's taking a card for the team. Happens in every game every week in every league, it's just not as clear as that at times.
You're in the final minute of a cup final and you're going to give a striker a free run on goal? I don't think so 🤕😁
		
Click to expand...

Delibaretly breaking the rules is cheating !
Imo of course.
Do you think delibaretly breaking the rules in golf is cheating?


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 16, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Delibaretly breaking the rules is cheating !
Imo of course.
Do you think delibaretly breaking the rules in golf is cheating?
		
Click to expand...

What is your official stance on cheating?
Genuine question


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 16, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Delibaretly breaking the rules is cheating !
Imo of course.
Do you think delibaretly breaking the rules in golf is cheating?
		
Click to expand...

But if you know and accept the punishment then what's the issue? Would be like if you broke a rule in golf that carries a two shot penalty, then take your two shot penalty without comment and carry on with the round. People wouldn't have an issue with that would they? To call it cheating implies that you got away without punishment.



HomerJSimpson said:



			On a separate note, not a great decision by OGS to play Rashford last night https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51129714

Click to expand...

Ah, I see he has sustained a back injury. Must be from carrying the team all season. 

Cheers, I'm here all week.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			What is your official stance on cheating?
Genuine question
		
Click to expand...

I don’t like or condone it at all.
In football it’s accepted as part of the game.
But if you break a rule unintentionally fine , like a tackle you miss time but are going for the ball.
But to bring someone down delibaretly NO attempt for the ball, that’s cheating imo.
This plus diving ,feigning injury and a few more things is the reason I don’t go the match anymore .

In this Spanish situation ,from behind no attempt at the ball I would give the other side a penalty.
That would stop it overnight, as the managers who would ask why he didn’t bring him down at the moment would be asking why he did that and give a pen away.
It’s the only way I can see it eradicated from the game!
But I know it won’t be , just more excuses.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 16, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I don’t like or condone it at all.
In football it’s accepted as part of the game.
But if you break a rule unintentionally fine , like a tackle you miss time but are going for the ball.
But to bring someone down delibaretly NO attempt for the ball, that’s cheating imo.
This plus diving ,feigning injury and a few more things is the reason I don’t go the match anymore .

In this Spanish situation ,from behind no attempt at the ball I would give the other side a penalty.
That would stop it overnight, as the managers who would ask why he didn’t bring him down at the moment would be asking why he did that and give a pen away.
It’s the only way I can see it eradicated from the game!
But I know it won’t be , just more excuses.
		
Click to expand...

Ok you don’t like it or condone it but you will happily support a team with cheats in it.
Double standards
Now where have I seen that before


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Ok you don’t like it or condone it but you will happily support a team with cheats in it.
Double standards
Now where have I seen that before
		
Click to expand...

So what do I do not support my local team.
I havnt changed my opinion since the 1960s Unfortunatly the ethics of everything in football has changed.
Show me where I said I was happy with it ? Quite the opposite I said I don’t go much anymore!


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 16, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Ok you don’t like it or condone it but you will happily support a team with cheats in it.
Double standards
Now where have I seen that before
		
Click to expand...

 Can you point me in the direction of a team that doesnt ever cheat then?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 16, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I don’t like or condone it at all.
In football it’s accepted as part of the game.
But if you break a rule unintentionally fine , like a tackle you miss time but are going for the ball.
But to bring someone down delibaretly NO attempt for the ball, that’s cheating imo.
This plus diving ,feigning injury and a few more things is the reason I don’t go the match anymore .

In this Spanish situation ,from behind no attempt at the ball I would give the other side a penalty.
That would stop it overnight, as the managers who would ask why he didn’t bring him down at the moment would be asking why he did that and give a pen away.
It’s the only way I can see it eradicated from the game!
But I know it won’t be , just more excuses.
		
Click to expand...

It’s a professional foul - it’s no different than a player pulling the shift back of a player who is clear through - it just looks worse because of the distance the guy travelled to trip him 

Here is a question - last minute , Liverpool are 1 nil up needing to win the game to win the title and a guy bursts clear one on one and a player has a chance to trip him up outside the box - do you want him to do it or not ?


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 16, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Can you point me in the direction of a team that doesnt ever cheat then?
		
Click to expand...

No I can’t that’s my point.
Condemning a Real Madrid player the way he did but happily supporting a club that has cheat is hypocritical.

I didn’t say anything on the Real Madrid player because I would expect Manchester Utd players to do it,no double standards


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s a professional foul - it’s no different than a player pulling the shift back of a player who is clear through - it just looks worse because of the distance the guy travelled to trip him

Here is a question - last minute , Liverpool are 1 nil up needing to win the game to win the title and a guy bursts clear one on one and a player has a chance to trip him up outside the box - do you want him to do it or not ?
		
Click to expand...

No .
I have been consistent with this kind of tackle ( assault)
A tackle like that tore my ACL many years ago ,I would not like to win anything cheating.
I may be in the minority but it’s what I belive.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			No I can’t that’s my point.
Condemning a Real Madrid player the way he did but happily supporting a club that has cheat is hypocritical.

I didn’t say anything on the Real Madrid player because I would expect Manchester Utd players to do it,no double standards
		
Click to expand...

No double standards because you are OK with cheating to win. Great.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 16, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			No double standards because you are OK with cheating to win. Great.
		
Click to expand...

All clubs do it that is the point.
How is that double standards.

I am like you I don’t go no more purely because of the cheating whichever way it’s done.
However I’m fully aware of the money that is in football has gone too far so and most will do anything to win.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 16, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			No double standards because you are OK with cheating to win. Great.
		
Click to expand...

Whenever a sporting match happens a rule is broken somewhere - rugby , football , golf , etc etc - both deliberately and accidental - it doesn’t mean it’s cheating 

Do you really think someone deliberately handling a ball is cheating ? Tripping a player etc etc 

Taking drugs is cheating , trying to bribe a ref is cheating etc


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 16, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			All clubs do it that is the point.
How is that double standards.

I am like you I don’t go no more purely because of the cheating whichever way it’s done.
However I’m fully aware of the money that is in football has gone too far so and most will do anything to win.
		
Click to expand...

No, its you missing the point, as ever.

Clubchamp is coming at the topic as a footballer whose career was ended by a "professional foul", a thing he has mentioned a few times.

But no, you just see him as a Liverpool fan, so want to try and get a cheap dig in about cheating. Enjoy the season.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			All clubs do it that is the point.
How is that double standards.

I am like you I don’t go no more purely because of the cheating whichever way it’s done.
However I’m fully aware of the money that is in football has gone etoo far so and most will do anything to win.
		
Click to expand...

You accused me of double standards.
I know all clubs do it including Liverpool.
I don’t go anymore and this is one of the reasons .
So justify your accusation.!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Whenever a sporting match happens a rule is broken somewhere - rugby , football , golf , etc etc - both deliberately and accidental - it doesn’t mean it’s cheating

Do you really think someone deliberately handling a ball is cheating ? Tripping a player etc etc

Taking drugs is cheating , trying to bribe a ref is cheating etc
		
Click to expand...

Well as I said Phil “there are degrees of cheating some very minor ( claiming a throw in falsely “
Some not so like the assault on Morratta was it.
people see it differently.
I am looking at my trophy’s and know I won them fair and square.
Ask any Irishman if Henry is a cheat?
Any Englishman about Maradonna
I belive if you knowingly break the rules it’s cheating that’s my honest opinion.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 16, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well as I said Phil “there are degrees of cheating some very minor ( claiming a throw in falsely “
Some not so like the assault on Morratta was it.
people see it differently.
I am looking at my trophy’s and know I won them fair and square.
Ask any Irishman if Henry is a cheat?
Any Englishman about Maradonna
I belive if you knowingly break the rules it’s cheating that’s my honest opinion.
		
Click to expand...

I find it impossible to believe you only played in teams that never ever cheated, no team mate “cheating” a yard for a throw in or 6 inches for a free kick or not being blown for a foul etc.
You didn’t win them trophies on your own!

Anyone of us who has played or watched football for the last 50 years have known it’s part of the game, to deny it, is to bury your head in the sand.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 16, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			No .
I have been consistent with this kind of tackle ( assault)
A tackle like that tore my ACL many years ago ,I would not like to win anything cheating.
I may be in the minority but it’s what I belive.
		
Click to expand...

Very much in the minority - admirable but just doesn’t happen in many sports these days and let’s be honest for decades 

It’s a professional foul and every single manager plus 99.999% of fans would want the player to do it to help the team win - it’s not “cheating” , it’s committing a professional foul


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I find it impossible to believe you only played in teams that never ever cheated, no team mate “cheating” a yard for a throw in or 6 inches for a free kick or not being blown for a foul etc.
You didn’t win them trophies on your own!

Anyone of us who has played or watched football for the last 50 years have known it’s part of the game, to deny it, is to bury your head in the sand.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry misunderstanding I was looking at my golf trophies.
I have not got any footy ones left cheap plastic crap never won anything worth keeping if I am honest!
I never said cheating never went on I was asked for my opinion that’s all. “A genuine question apparently “
Unfortunatly it is part of the game  tolerated from top to bottom.
I have voted with my feet I don’t go any more.
Just a side issue I got my ST for nothing so it’s not a monetary thing that I don’t go anymore.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Very much in the minority - admirable but just doesn’t happen in many sports these days and let’s be honest for decades

It’s a professional foul and every single manager plus 99.999% of fans would want the player to do it to help the team win - it’s not “cheating” , it’s committing a professional foul
		
Click to expand...

Yes I can’t disagree with your analogy 
If that’s what you want to call it that’s fine.
I call it cheating imo they are the same.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 16, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Sorry misunderstanding I was looking at my golf trophies.
I have not got any footy ones left cheap plastic crap never won anything worth keeping if I am honest!
I never said cheating never went on I was asked for my opinion that’s all. “A genuine question apparently “
*Unfortunatly it is part of the game  tolerated from top to bottom.*
I have voted with my feet I don’t go any more.
Just a side issue I got my ST for nothing so it’s not a monetary thing that I don’t go anymore.
		
Click to expand...

That’s were I think we differ, its not tolerated, it’s expected!
Every single sport has this element, whether it’s cheating/gamesmanship or some other terminology.
Rules and boundaries are pushed and there are times it goes undetected, always has done, always will be.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 16, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			That’s were I think we differ, its not tolerated, it’s expected!
Every single sport has this element, whether it’s cheating/gamesmanship or some other terminology.
Rules and boundaries are pushed and there are times it goes undetected, always has done, always will be.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I agree with you but it’s been tolerated over the years to the state where it is expected.
I know I am in a minority .


----------



## 4LEX (Jan 16, 2020)

Who cares anyway, it was Morata. The only thing he would've hit was Row Z or the corner flag!


----------



## Slime (Jan 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Whenever a sporting match happens a rule is broken somewhere - rugby , football , golf , etc etc - both deliberately and accidental - it doesn’t mean it’s cheating

*Do you really think someone deliberately handling a ball is cheating ?* Tripping a player etc etc

Taking drugs is cheating , trying to bribe a ref is cheating etc
		
Click to expand...

Yes, of course that's cheating.




Liverpoolphil said:



			Very much in the minority - admirable but just doesn’t happen in many sports these days and let’s be honest for decades

It’s a professional foul and every single manager plus 99.999% of fans would want the player to do it to help the team win -* it’s not “cheating” , it’s committing a professional foul*

Click to expand...

No, Phil, it's cheating.

In my book, deliberately breaking a rule in order to gain an unfair advantage is cheating ....................... not professionalism!


----------



## Captainron (Jan 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Very much in the minority - admirable but just doesn’t happen in many sports these days and let’s be honest for decades

It’s a professional foul and every single manager plus 99.999% of fans would want the player to do it to help the team win - it’s not “cheating” , it’s committing a professional foul
		
Click to expand...

Absolute rubbish! This view of breaking the laws is just as dishonest as those that commit the fouls. 

I’d be straight red and a 5 game ban for a so called “professional foul” and if it prevented a goal scoring chance then give a penalty goal.

that would soon smarten up these players.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2020)

Slime said:



			Yes, of course that's cheating.




No, Phil, it's cheating.

In my book, deliberately breaking a rule in order to gain an *unfair advantage* is cheating ....................... not professionalism!
		
Click to expand...

Team ends up being “disadvantaged” because the player ends up being sent off - a professional foul stops the team trying to win , a foul is in the rules and the subsequent punishments within the rules. 

There is clear separation between players committing fouls either deliberately or not and sports teams and players “cheating” - drugs , bribery, poaching etc that’s cheating 

Fouls are just part of the sport and have been since the day it started


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2020)

Captainron said:



			Absolute rubbish! This view of breaking the laws is just as dishonest as those that commit the fouls.

I’d be straight red and a 5 game ban for a so called “professional foul” and if it prevented a goal scoring chance then give a penalty goal.

that would soon smarten up these players.
		
Click to expand...

How does a 5 game ban benefit the team the offence has been committed against?

Look at the incident that raised this discussion, Final of the Spanish Super Cup (A nothing match played in Saudi Arabia. Equivalent of our Charity Shield) Real Madrid v Athletico Madrid, RM player commits a foul in the last minute and gets a red card. AM do nothing with resultant free kick.
RM then win Cup on penalties.
RM got approx €12million for winning the comp. 

How do AM benefit from the 5 game ban?


----------



## Captainron (Jan 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			How does a 5 game ban benefit the team the offence has been committed against?

Look at the incident that raised this discussion, Final of the Spanish Super Cup (A nothing match played in Saudi Arabia. Equivalent of our Charity Shield) Real Madrid v Athletico Madrid, RM player commits a foul in the last minute and gets a red card. AM do nothing with resultant free kick.
RM then win Cup on penalties.
RM got approx €12million for winning the comp.

How do AM benefit from the 5 game ban?
		
Click to expand...

You have to start somewhere and making the punishment severe is a deterrent. I also said that should it stop a clear scoring chance that a penalty goal be awarded.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2020)

Captainron said:



			You have to start somewhere and making the punishment severe is a deterrent. I also said that should it stop a clear scoring chance that a penalty goal be awarded.
		
Click to expand...

I accept if the authorities wanted to stop it they’d have to start somewhere, but I don’t believe they do.

It’s only some fans who have an issue with it, most players and other fans see it as part of the game.

The rewards are too big, plus as others have stated, every team does it and would expect their player to do exactly the same thing if the role was reversed.


----------



## Captainron (Jan 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I accept if the authorities wanted to stop it they’d have to start somewhere, but I don’t believe they do.

It’s only some fans who have an issue with it, most players and other fans see it as part of the game.

The rewards are too big, plus as others have stated, every team does it and would expect their player to do exactly the same thing if the role was reversed.
		
Click to expand...

So nothing will be done because the game is inherently dishonest.

It's sad that football will not do something about that stigma/reputation. And this is why I absolutely hate my son playing football. Teaches gains by manipulation and dishonestly.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2020)

Captainron said:



			So nothing will be done because the game is inherently dishonest.

It's sad that football will not do something about that stigma/reputation. And this is why I absolutely hate my son playing football. Teaches gains by manipulation and dishonestly.
		
Click to expand...

It’s no different in Rugby or Cricket, Rugby for years allowed physical assault on each other and classed it as a man’s sport, Cricket had bowlers bowling at the man etc.

It seems in other Sports it is looked at as “part of the game” but in Football it’s manipulation and dishonesty.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 17, 2020)

Captainron said:



			So nothing will be done because the game is inherently dishonest.

It's sad that football will not do something about that stigma/reputation. And this is why I absolutely hate my son playing football. Teaches gains by manipulation and dishonestly.
		
Click to expand...


It’s sad isn’t it the way football is going.
I am a coach for U13 s football I’m old school by the way firm but fair.
We have 2 boys currently that play for Yeovil boys.
One of them has taken to cheating basically taking a dive or leaving his leg in.
Not on my watch sonny,I hate it.
Don’t know wether he’s been taught it or watching the P/L I suspect the latter and I hope the latter also.


----------



## Slime (Jan 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Team ends up being “disadvantaged” because the player ends up being sent off - a professional foul stops the team trying to win , a foul is in the rules and the subsequent punishments within the rules.

There is clear separation between players committing fouls either deliberately or not and sports teams and players “cheating” - drugs , bribery, poaching etc that’s cheating

*Fouls are just part of the sport and have been since the day it started*

Click to expand...

Yes they are, but a deliberate foul is still cheating, no matter how you dress it up.


Cheat.
_verb_
gerund or present participle: *cheating*
1. Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.


----------



## Captainron (Jan 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s no different in Rugby or Cricket, Rugby for years allowed physical assault on each other and classed it as a man’s sport, Cricket had bowlers bowling at the man etc.

It seems in other Sports it is looked at as “part of the game” but in Football it’s manipulation and dishonesty.
		
Click to expand...

Incorrect. Rugby and cricket both have upped their moral codes and have clear boundaries and sanctions on those. They also happen to have retrospective action which can be applied when players breach those codes.

Face it. Football is lagging well behind in the morality stakes. 

And as @pokerjoke has also pointed out, it’s crept into kids play. I see it when my lad plays. Hand up for a throw in when it’s not theirs. Shouting at the ref when a decision goes against them. Diving etc. It really really bugs me. I have pulled him from a game once for shouting “ref, ref, ref” when he got “fouled” as he saw it. He has never done it since. He did ask why he couldn’t do it when everyone else could? I asked him if he could have done that in a rugby game. No was the answer and he apologised for cheating. 

So what is the difference between the games? 

Respect and integrity are my answers.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2020)

Captainron said:



			Incorrect. Rugby and cricket both have upped their moral codes and have clear boundaries and sanctions on those. They also happen to have retrospective action which can be applied when players breach those codes.

Face it. Football is lagging well behind in the morality stakes.

And as @pokerjoke has also pointed out, it’s crept into kids play. I see it when my lad plays. Hand up for a throw in when it’s not theirs. Shouting at the ref when a decision goes against them. Diving etc. It really really bugs me. I have pulled him from a game once for shouting “ref, ref, ref” when he got “fouled” as he saw it. He has never done it since. He did ask why he couldn’t do it when everyone else could? I asked him if he could have done that in a rugby game. No was the answer and he apologised for cheating.

So what is the difference between the games?

Respect and integrity are my answers.
		
Click to expand...

I’m not sure many sports can use a moral standpoint - 

Rugby - just look at Saracens ? And they have plenty of incidents within the games to try and find a way to win - certainly lots of things go on in the scrums 

Cricket - sorry but match fixing , ball tampering , false appeals etc etc 

And football have clear boundaries and sanctions for rule breaks do they not ? Diving is punished , professional fouls are punished etc etc 

Football may have issues with the one the players talk to the officials but the other sports are no better when it comes to the players doing whatever they can to win.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 17, 2020)

Captainron said:



			Incorrect. Rugby and cricket both have upped their moral codes and have clear boundaries and sanctions on those. They also happen to have retrospective action which can be applied when players breach those codes.

Face it. Football is lagging well behind in the morality stakes.

And as @pokerjoke has also pointed out, it’s crept into kids play. I see it when my lad plays. Hand up for a throw in when it’s not theirs. Shouting at the ref when a decision goes against them. Diving etc. It really really bugs me. I have pulled him from a game once for shouting “ref, ref, ref” when he got “fouled” as he saw it. He has never done it since. He did ask why he couldn’t do it when everyone else could? I asked him if he could have done that in a rugby game. No was the answer and he apologised for cheating.

So what is the difference between the games?

Respect and integrity are my answers.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry mate, probably like you I’ve played all sorts of Sports over the years and dodgy tactics get employed in all of them.

Remember “Bloodgate”? Rugby likes to play the respect and integrity card, but still has a far higher number of convictions for drug abuse than football.


----------



## Dando (Jan 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I’m not sure many sports can use a moral standpoint - 

Rugby - just look at Saracens ? And they have plenty of incidents within the games to try and find a way to win - certainly lots of things go on in the scrums 

Cricket - sorry but match fixing , ball tampering , false appeals etc etc 

And football have clear boundaries and sanctions for rule breaks do they not ? Diving is punished , professional fouls are punished etc etc 

Football may have issues with the one the players talk to the officials but the other sports are no better when it comes to the players doing whatever they can to win.
		
Click to expand...

Phil, please tell us exactly how saracens cheated on the pitch to win games?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2020)

Dando said:



			Phil, please tell us exactly how saracens cheated on the pitch to win games?
		
Click to expand...

Well first - they have cheated off the pitch , and anytime a Saracen player deliberately breaks a rule of Rugby on the pitch by the definition people are using they are cheating - not rolling away , not releasing , offside , collapsing a scrum - is that not the same as footballers deliberately breaking a rule during a game


----------



## Dando (Jan 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well first - they have cheated off the pitch , and anytime a Saracen player deliberately breaks a rule of Rugby on the pitch by the definition people are using they are cheating - not rolling away , not releasing , offside , collapsing a scrum - is that not the same as footballers deliberately breaking a rule during a game
		
Click to expand...

The off the pitch issues were down to “image rights” and “other non rugby payments” which isn’t cheating. it’s just that the owner of saracens was paying personally and the other clubs who didn’t have a rich benefactor didn’t like it! 
All rugby clubs have players who step over the line when playing


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2020)

Dando said:



			The off the pitch issues were down to “image rights” and “other non rugby payments” which isn’t cheating. it’s just that the owner of saracens was paying personally and the other clubs who didn’t have a rich benefactor didn’t like it!
*All rugby clubs have players who step over the line when playing*

Click to expand...

So just like football then ? 

And Saracens tried to get around the salary cap to enable the club to get some of the best players in the game playing for them - it’s financial cheating in the same way football teams have tried to get around ffp


----------



## fundy (Jan 17, 2020)

Dando said:



			The off the pitch issues were down to “image rights” and “other non rugby payments” which isn’t cheating. it’s just that the owner of saracens was paying personally and the other clubs who didn’t have a rich benefactor didn’t like it! 
All rugby clubs have players who step over the line when playing
		
Click to expand...


think its a bit bigger than that sadly  all coming out in the wash in the next few days it seems


----------



## Dando (Jan 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So just like football then ? 

And Saracens tried to get around the salary cap to enable the club to get some of the best players in the game playing for them - it’s financial cheating in the same way football teams have tried to get around ffp
		
Click to expand...

It’s not the same at all, as Saracens didn’t breach the salary cap. Certain football clubs openly breached FFP


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2020)

Dando said:



			It’s not the same at all, as Saracens didn’t breach the salary cap. Certain football clubs openly breached FFP
		
Click to expand...

Have you not seen the news ? They were given a £5.4 mil fine and a 35 point reduction for breaching salary cap regulations over the past 2 or 3 years and right now they possibly maybe getting auto relegated because they don’t appear to have managed to have got it sorted yet ?


----------



## Dando (Jan 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Have you not seen the news ? They were given a £5.4 mil fine and a 35 point reduction for breaching salary cap regulations over the past 2 or 3 years and right now they possibly maybe getting auto relegated because they don’t appear to have managed to have got it sorted yet ?
		
Click to expand...

Yes I have seen the news thanks.
Does your company have day to day dealings with saracans? If not then I’ll politely ask that you don’t get involved with something you’ve read in the press that isn’t 100% accurate 

The issues were the payments being made to the players that weren’t part of their salary so the cap wasn’t being breached


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2020)

Dando said:



			Yes I have seen the news thanks.
Does your company have day to day dealings with saracans? If not then I’ll politely ask that you don’t get involved with something you’ve read in the press that isn’t 100% accurate

The issues were the payments being made to the players that weren’t part of their salary so the cap wasn’t being breached
		
Click to expand...

Maybe you best go let the Rugby Premiership guys know then as what I’m stating is directly from the statement of the governing body 

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/news/premiership-rugby-statement-decision-on-salary-cap-charges

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/news/joint-statement-by-premiership-rugby-and-saracens

So are suggesting that they have it wrong ?


----------



## Dando (Jan 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe you best go let the Rugby Premiership guys know then as what I’m stating is directly from the statement of the governing body 

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/news/premiership-rugby-statement-decision-on-salary-cap-charges

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/news/joint-statement-by-premiership-rugby-and-saracens

So are suggesting that they have it wrong ?
		
Click to expand...

Ffs, The payments weren’t part of the players Salary.
They were “extras” to the players own companies for “other” duties.
It’s really quite a simple agreement but the poorer clubs didn’t like it


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2020)

Dando said:



			Ffs, The payments weren’t part of the players Salary.
They were “extras” to the players own companies for “other” duties.
It’s really quite a simple agreement but the poorer clubs didn’t like it
		
Click to expand...

🤦‍♂️

The payments to the players allowed Saracens get around the Salary Cap hence why they were charged , found guilty and punished under Salary Cap regulations 

It’s quite simple and there is black and white


----------



## Dando (Jan 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤦‍♂️

The payments to the players allowed Saracens get around the Salary Cap hence why they were charged , found guilty and punished under Salary Cap regulations 

It’s quite simple and there is black and white
		
Click to expand...

The payments weren’t part of the players salaries


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 17, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			It's traditional spot.
*Should never have changed.*

*If you sign an African player, deal with it*.
		
Click to expand...

Totally disagree, stupid time to have a international tournament. No team should lose their players mid season for 6wks for this. 

I think you’ll see less African players being bought by PL teams in future. Slightly different in europe as most top countries leagues have proper winter breaks.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Totally disagree, stupid time to have a international tournament. No team should lose their players mid season for 6wks for this. 

I think you’ll see less African players being bought by PL teams in future. Slightly different in europe as most top countries leagues have proper winter breaks.
		
Click to expand...

Last comp was the only time it’s been played in the summer. It’s played at the time that’s healthiest for those countries participating. The world doesn’t revolve around the PL. 

In the last 20 years there have been loads of African players signed. We haven’t had a massive influx simply because one tournament was hosted in summer. All clubs know the scenarios when signing them (African players) Wenger had the same strop about it after he lost the likes of Toure to it.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 18, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Last comp was the only time it’s been played in the summer. It’s played at the time that’s healthiest for those countries participating. The world doesn’t revolve around the PL.

In the last 20 years there have been loads of African players signed. We haven’t had a massive influx simply because one tournament was hosted in summer. All clubs know the scenarios when signing them (African players) Wenger had the same strop about it after he lost the likes of Toure to it.
		
Click to expand...

i thought it was changed to end of season to stop disrupting clubs across Europe? 

Youre right the world doesn’t revolve around the PL but now transfer fees are hugely inflated I believe clubs will think twice before buying Africans now it’s gone back to its traditional place. City struggled in 2012 & 2015 iirc when Yaya Toure went away too, not just arsenal.

As a match going fan I wouldn’t like us to be buying anymore Africans knowing we’ll lose them for 8 games if not more.
It won’t affect us next year anyway, we’ll still have VAR,the FA, PGMOL, Sky,Bt Sport and the written press on our side 😉


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			i thought it was changed to end of season to stop disrupting clubs across Europe? 

Youre right the world doesn’t revolve around the PL but now transfer fees are hugely inflated I believe clubs will think twice before buying Africans now it’s gone back to its traditional place. City struggled in 2012 & 2015 iirc when Yaya Toure went away too, not just arsenal.

As a match going fan I wouldn’t like us to be buying anymore Africans knowing we’ll lose them for 8 games if not more.
It won’t affect us next year anyway, we’ll still have VAR,the FA, PGMOL, Sky,Bt Sport and the written press on our side 😉
		
Click to expand...

I think the suggested dates would be changed, but common sense prevailed. Not sure Cameroon in summer would exactly be ideal.... the may be more flexible if it’s in a country with a little milder climate. 

Tbh, the way things are with Salah, he may just do a Scholes/Carra n quit. 

As to LiVARpool. Long may it continue. Think we’re 2nd best beneficiaries.....


----------



## Fish (Jan 18, 2020)

Dando said:



			The payments weren’t part of the players salaries
		
Click to expand...

#FloggingADeadHorse.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 18, 2020)

Dando said:



			The payments weren’t part of the players salaries
		
Click to expand...

🤦‍♂️

Have you actually read what’s posted - no one said the payments were part of the players salary!!!

The payments were made In different ways  to attempt to give the players more money but bypass the cap - read the findings it’s clear as day


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			i thought it was changed to end of season to stop disrupting clubs across Europe?

Youre right the world doesn’t revolve around the PL but now transfer fees are hugely inflated I believe clubs will think twice before buying Africans now it’s gone back to its traditional place. City struggled in 2012 & 2015 iirc when Yaya Toure went away too, not just arsenal.

As a match going fan I wouldn’t like us to be buying anymore Africans knowing we’ll lose them for 8 games if not more.
It won’t affect us next year anyway, we’ll still have VAR,the FA, PGMOL, Sky,Bt Sport and the written press on our side 😉
		
Click to expand...

It’s never stopped teams buying African players & it won’t start now.
Obviously as a “match going fan” you’ll probably know best tho 😳


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 18, 2020)

The World Cup was changed to winter because of the hot weather, the African cup comp was changed for the same reasons. The difference is what?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 18, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			The World Cup was changed to winter because of the hot weather, the African cup comp was changed for the same reasons. The difference is what?
		
Click to expand...

when the World Cup is on no Prem League , La Liga , Serie A game will be played as they will break 

For the ACN all the leagues will still continue and it’s not just Prem - all the European leagues will continue so lots of teams will lose Africans players which as Stu says may end up affecting them in the long run


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			when the World Cup is on no Prem League , La Liga , Serie A game will be played as they will break

For the ACN all the leagues will still continue and it’s not just Prem - all the European leagues will continue so lots of teams will lose Africans players which as Stu says may end up affecting them in the long run
		
Click to expand...

Affect them how?


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			when the World Cup is on no Prem League , La Liga , Serie A game will be played as they will break

For the ACN all the leagues will still continue and it’s not just Prem - all the European leagues will continue so lots of teams will lose Africans players which as Stu says may end up affecting them in the long run
		
Click to expand...

The AFCON is how many years old? 

We've moved the world cup because of weather issues. Cameroon will be just as bad. 

A continental competition that predates the Premier league and the other leagues desire to have African players shouldn't change now. 

This notion tha clubs won't sign african players is a non starter for me. No way should league clubs dicate then intl tournaments are played.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 18, 2020)

How ever you dress it up, the African Nations was changed for the health and welfare of the players in the same sense the World Cup was changed. If as a fan you are disappointed because your team is weaker. Work it out how that comes across as shallow. 
it affects all top teams and leagues.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 18, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			The World Cup was changed to winter because of the hot weather, the African cup comp was changed for the same reasons. The difference is what?
		
Click to expand...

Tbf tash. It was changed once to keep big clubs happy. It never should have happened.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 18, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			The AFCON is how many years old?
		
Click to expand...

Does it matter how old it is ? African players didn’t start moving en mass across to leagues until late 90’s 



			We've moved the world cup because of weather issues. Cameroon will be just as bad.
		
Click to expand...

And all the leagues stop when the World Cup is moved - but I guess you think the leagues should just carry on playing whilst the WC is going on ? 




			A continental competition that predates the Premier league and the other leagues desire to have African players shouldn't change now.
		
Click to expand...

I didn’t realise that the English League didnt start until after the AFCON - must make that the older comp in world football 




			This notion tha clubs won't sign african players is a non starter for me. No way should league clubs dicate then intl tournaments are played.
		
Click to expand...

Who pays the wages of the players ? Club or the country ? 

If players go away for 6 weeks during a busy crucial period of the season then yes it’s going to affect the clubs and it’s going to make them think twice about signing players , and it’s also possibly going to affect players international decisions with players having to make choices - the clubs that pay their wages or the country 

They play this tournament every 2 years - if it was every four years like the others then the impact wouldn’t be as bad but every other year then it’s going to have an impact


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Does it matter how old it is ? African players didn’t start moving en mass across to leagues until late 90’s


And all the leagues stop when the World Cup is moved - but I guess you think the leagues should just carry on playing whilst the WC is going on ?



I didn’t realise that the English League didnt start until after the AFCON - must make that the older comp in world football



Who pays the wages of the players ? Club or the country ?

If players go away for 6 weeks during a busy crucial period of the season then yes it’s going to affect the clubs and it’s going to make them think twice about signing players , and it’s also possibly going to affect players international decisions with players having to make choices - the clubs that pay their wages or the country

They play this tournament every 2 years - if it was every four years like the others then the impact wouldn’t be as bad but every other year then it’s going to have an impact
		
Click to expand...

They play it ever two years because for quite some time they had very little involvement in world Cups I'd imagine. 

I didn't say the comp predates any leagues. I said it predates clubs signing African players. 

This notion that because a club pays the wages they should have a choice doesn't wash with me. You knew the rules when you signed players. Either accept the rules or dont sign them. Its simply because it's two of your stars it's now an issue. I don't recall such an outcry when it was Diouf getting called up.... 

As to your flippant comment about the world cup. I don't think it should be where it is being held. Or at the time of year. The World Cup will have most clubs losing a good dozen players so nerds in this case for leagues to. Shut down. Clubs losing 1 or 2 players is totally different. 

You never know, maybe the club will sell Salah and Mane over the summer as its such an issue?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Does it matter how old it is ? African players didn’t start moving en mass across to leagues until late 90’s


And all the leagues stop when the World Cup is moved - but I guess you think the leagues should just carry on playing whilst the WC is going on ?



I didn’t realise that the English League didnt start until after the AFCON - must make that the older comp in world football



Who pays the wages of the players ? Club or the country ?

If players go away for 6 weeks during a busy crucial period of the season then yes it’s going to affect the clubs and it’s going to make them think twice about signing players , and it’s also possibly going to affect players international decisions with players having to make choices - the clubs that pay their wages or the country

They play this tournament every 2 years - if it was every four years like the others then the impact wouldn’t be as bad but every other year then it’s going to have an impact
		
Click to expand...

Do you not think clubs thought that maybe the AFCON could go back to its original date?
Do you think teams wouldn’t have signed players if they’d known this,Sarah & Mane for example? 

didn’t stop teams having a number of African players in the past & it won’t in the future. Fact 👍🏻


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 18, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			They play it ever two years because for quite some time they had very little involvement in world Cups I'd imagine.
		
Click to expand...

So with the way the game is growing then surely it’s time to look at the international calendar and adjust - have it every four years and also leagues need to adjust to help out - including the CL 




			I didn't say the comp predates any leagues. I said it predates clubs signing African players.

This notion that because a club pays the wages they should have a choice doesn't wash with me. You knew the rules when you signed players. Either accept the rules or dont sign them. Its simply because it's two of your stars it's now an issue. I don't recall such an outcry when it was Diouf getting called up....
		
Click to expand...

Doesn’t matter if it washes with you or not - it’s the clubs that pay the wages , it’s the clubs that always seem to suffer when it comes to Internationals with - the fans don’t want to see the players they help pay wages for disappear during crucial times of the season whether that’s to help a team win trophies or avoid relegation 

And how would you know if there was an outcry in regards Diouf ? I know Rafa wasn’t pleased about losing Sissoko and said it affects his thinking about players that he signs 




			As to your flippant comment about the world cup. I don't think it should be where it is being held. Or at the time of year. The World Cup will have most clubs losing a good dozen players so nerds in this case for leagues to. Shut down. Clubs losing 1 or 2 players is totally different.

You never know, maybe the club will sell Salah and Mane over the summer as its such an issue?
		
Click to expand...

Why is it flippant ? It’s a tournament being held in the middle of the season for the majority of the leagues - shouldnt matter how many players leave - “clubs have big squads” and can play youth players etc so the league should keep going then if the attitude is “tough” when it comes to the AFCON

And in regards Mane and Salah I have a feeling they will both miss the tournament which is a shame for them and their country.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So with the way the game is growing then surely it’s time to look at the international calendar and adjust - have it every four years and also leagues need to adjust to help out - including the CL
		
Click to expand...

I agree that leagues could look to it, but at the same time. I’m massively against a winter break. So not sure what can be done it that regard. As to it being every 4 years now, they are still under represented. Last World Cup. 54 UEFA teams entered qualification. 14 were at the comp. 54 CAF teams entered qualification only 5 went to the comp. so why should they forgo regular intl comps when they have less opportunities?



Liverpoolphil said:



			Doesn’t matter if it washes with you or not - it’s the clubs that pay the wages , it’s the clubs that always seem to suffer when it comes to Internationals with - the fans don’t want to see the players they help pay wages for disappear during crucial times of the season whether that’s to help a team win trophies or avoid relegation
		
Click to expand...

The reason wages doesn’t wash with me is simple. Clubs have a choice prior to making a signing. Players will always play for their country. Clubs like to have intl superstars. I wonder how many Egyptians have Liverpool shirts now. Clubs money having a countries superstar. If a club doesn’t like it. Don’t sign the player. 



Liverpoolphil said:



			And how would you know if there was an outcry in regards Diouf ? I know Rafa wasn’t pleased about losing Sissoko and said it affects his thinking about players that he signs
		
Click to expand...

So you know, but I can’t? 😂😂😂

I’d know, or at least can have an opinion on how liverpool are more vocal now because your losing stars, because I can recall arsenal fans who i knew moaning about Toure as he was a big player, I know plenty of Liverpool fans. They didn’t moan as Diof and Salif Dili weren’t important. I don’t need to show you a google report to prove it. It also comes down to he managers attitude. Klopp has made plenty of comments about winter etc. He’s far more vocal, which is his right, but the more he says, the more others will jump on it. I’m not gonna waste my time looking, but I’d be amazed if Rafa hasn’t signed an African player since. 




Liverpoolphil said:



			Why is it flippant ? It’s a tournament being held in the middle of the season for the majority of the leagues - shouldnt matter how many players leave - “clubs have big squads” and can play youth players etc so the league should keep going then if the attitude is “tough” when it comes to the AFCON
		
Click to expand...

The reason it’s different for a world cup is simple. A, it’s a one off. Clubs didn’t sign their players knowing there would necessarily be a comp as is the case with Africans, b, the number of players leaving is far more significant than for the AFCON. The English leagues won’t agree to a winter break because a few clubs lose 2 players unlike all losing 10 players for a World Cup. I don’t believe you can’t see the difference, You’re simply trying to use it to make a point that doesn’t exist.




Liverpoolphil said:



			And in regards Mane and Salah I have a feeling they will both miss the tournament which is a shame for them and their country.
		
Click to expand...

Personally I think Salah will miss it. But not because of some sort of loyalty to Liverpool or protest at the time of it. He simply has massive issues with the Egyptian Fa. 

Mane will go imo.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 18, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree that leagues could look to it, but at the same time. I’m massively against a winter break. So not sure what can be done it that regard. As to it being every 4 years now, they are still under represented. Last World Cup. 54 UEFA teams entered qualification. 14 were at the comp. 54 CAF teams entered qualification only 5 went to the comp. so why should they forgo regular intl comps when they have less opportunities?
		
Click to expand...

A winter break is the only way to move forward to stop flogging the players to death - it’s either that or get rid of meaningless friendlies, the players need a break.

A international tournament every other year is too disruptive 




			The reason wages doesn’t wash with me is simple. Clubs have a choice prior to making a signing. Players will always play for their country. Clubs like to have intl superstars. I wonder how many Egyptians have Liverpool shirts now. Clubs money having a countries superstar. If a club doesn’t like it. Don’t sign the player.
		
Click to expand...

what does selling shirts have to do with clubs being the ones that pay the wages and take the hits ? It’s times for the international federations to start helping out - if they want to take a player away mid season for 6 weeks then they pay for it 




			So you know, but I can’t? 😂😂😂

I’d know, or at least can have an opinion on how liverpool are more vocal now because your losing stars, because I can recall arsenal fans who i knew moaning about Toure as he was a big player, I know plenty of Liverpool fans. They didn’t moan as Diof and Salif Dili weren’t important. I don’t need to show you a google report to prove it. It also comes down to he managers attitude. Klopp has made plenty of comments about winter etc. He’s far more vocal, which is his right, but the more he says, the more others will jump on it. I’m not gonna waste my time looking, but I’d be amazed if Rafa hasn’t signed an African player since.
		
Click to expand...

Ah so you have judged by the Liverpool fans you know and you can remember back 15/17 years ago when Diouf and Diao arrived ? As there was no Twitter , Facebook and not many forums around then I’m not sure how you can judge what Liverpool fans were reacting like 17 years ago. rafa signed one African player at Liverpool - Sissoko , no others but thankfully he never went away on a tournament when with us 

What’s the google report bit about ? Surely you aren’t be snide are you - 🙄





			The reason it’s different for a world cup is simple. A, it’s a one off. Clubs didn’t sign their players knowing there would necessarily be a comp as is the case with Africans, b, the number of players leaving is far more significant than for the AFCON. The English leagues won’t agree to a winter break because a few clubs lose 2 players unlike all losing 10 players for a World Cup. I don’t believe you can’t see the difference, You’re simply trying to use it to make a point that doesn’t exist.
		
Click to expand...

The difference is clear - I suspect the World could potentially affect your club so the attitude towards it will prob be different - just as I suspect if the AFCON affected your team significantly the attitude 




			Personally I think Salah will miss it. But not because of some sort of loyalty to Liverpool or protest at the time of it. He simply has massive issues with the Egyptian Fa.

Mane will go imo.
		
Click to expand...

Guess we will see


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A winter break is the only way to move forward to stop flogging the players to death - it’s either that or get rid of meaningless friendlies, the players need a break.

A international tournament every other year is too disruptive
		
Click to expand...

I would happily drop the amount of friendlies. Or the stupid cup of nations. Europeans have an intl comp every two years. Euros and World Cup. Africans basically do the same because they have such little involvement in World Cup. 




Liverpoolphil said:



			what does selling shirts have to do with clubs being the ones that pay the wages and take the hits ? It’s times for the international federations to start helping out - if they want to take a player away mid season for 6 weeks then they pay for it
		
Click to expand...

Because wages and revenue are all part of the package. Higher profile players earn a club more and are blatantly considered when wages are decided upon. Image rights are massive now. Salah probably earns more in 6 weeks than the Egyptian Fa make in a season. Maybe players should be paid only when they are representing the club. That way they can decide how much pride they get from being an intl. Imo expecting the nations to pay is just another way for the rich clubs to try to control small nations. How may African federations earn the money premier league clubs earn. 



Liverpoolphil said:



			Ah so you have judged by the Liverpool fans you know and you can remember back 15/17 years ago when Diouf and Diao arrived ? As there was no Twitter , Facebook and not many forums around then I’m not sure how you can judge what Liverpool fans were reacting like 17 years ago. rafa signed one African player at Liverpool - Sissoko , no others but thankfully he never went away on a tournament when with us 

What’s the google report bit about ? Surely you aren’t be snide are you - 🙄
		
Click to expand...

It wasn’t snide in the you may think. It was simply preemptive. You tend to ask for proof. I clearly can’t prove that I can recall arsenal fans moaning and Liverpool not. I also meant Rafa in his career since. you’ve said he said it would affect his decisions. I’m curious if it did. 
If you really wanna claim that Liverpool were Concerned the.  That’s your prerogative. Curious how you could make the]at claim though. What with there being now social media which apparently I need to prove it....



Liverpoolphil said:



			The difference is clear - I suspect the World could potentially affect your club so the attitude towards it will prob be different - just as I suspect if the AFCON affected your team significantly the attitude 

Guess we will see
		
Click to expand...

Pretty sure you signed Mane from us. I never wanted the AFCON changed when he was with us. The World Cup was never going to be played mid season (without a break) as it effects EVERY CLUB MASSIVELY. And also unexpectedly. The AFCON isn’t a surprise.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 18, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I would happily drop the amount of friendlies. Or the stupid cup of nations. Europeans have an intl comp every two years. Euros and World Cup. Africans basically do the same because they have such little involvement in World Cup.
		
Click to expand...

They aren’t going to drop those though - which is why there is a winter break coming in next season

Europeans have the Euros every four years during the summer when it’s not disruptive Not every two years

African Nations now have 3 every 4




			Because wages and revenue are all part of the package. Higher profile players earn a club more and are blatantly considered when wages are decided upon. Image rights are massive now. Salah probably earns more in 6 weeks than the Egyptian Fa make in a season. Maybe players should be paid only when they are representing the club. That way they can decide how much pride they get from being an intl. Imo expecting the nations to pay is just another way for the rich clubs to try to control small nations. How may African federations earn the money premier league clubs earn.
		
Click to expand...

I have no doubt that International teams earn a lot of money of the back of these players - the clubs are the ones that have to suffer regardless of what nation they are in , and ultimately it’s the fans that will suffer because they aren’t seeing the players that are paid by their club playing for the club when they are needed.



			It wasn’t snide in the you may think. It was simply preemptive. You tend to ask for proof. I clearly can’t prove that I can recall arsenal fans moaning and Liverpool not. I also meant Rafa in his career since. you’ve said he said it would affect his decisions. I’m curious if it did.
If you really wanna claim that Liverpool were Concerned the.  That’s your prerogative. Curious how you could make the]at claim though. What with there being now social media which apparently I need to prove it....
		
Click to expand...

It affected Rafas decisions when at Liverpool with who he signed - he signed one and didn’t sign any other , no idea about other clubs.

I didn’t ask you to prove anything did i ? I was curious to know how a Southampton fan would know how the Liverpool fan base reacted 17 years ago when social media wasn’t at the level it is now or was it judgements based on ones you know .Just as I wouldn’t know what Arsenal fans thought over a decade ago when they had players like Toure




			Pretty sure you signed Mane from us. I never wanted the AFCON changed when he was with us. The World Cup was never going to be played mid season (without a break) as it effects EVERY CLUB MASSIVELY. And also unexpectedly. The AFCON isn’t a surprise.
		
Click to expand...

I have no idea what the level Mane was when he was with Southampton and certainly no idea if him going away in 15 had any affect but would you say that no Southampton fan minded him going away mid season if he was a key player ?

But I think it’s clear that you will have the opposite opinion to myself so I guess I’ll step off the roundabout now


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They aren’t going to drop those though - which is why there is a winter break coming in next season

Europeans have the Euros every four years during the summer when it’s not disruptive Not every two years

African Nations now have 3 every 4



I have no doubt that International teams earn a lot of money of the back of these players - the clubs are the ones that have to suffer regardless of what nation they are in , and ultimately it’s the fans that will suffer because they aren’t seeing the players that are paid by their club playing for the club when they are needed.

It affected Rafas decisions when at Liverpool with who he signed - he signed one and didn’t sign any other , no idea about other clubs.

I didn’t ask you to prove anything did i ? I was curious to know how a Southampton fan would know how the Liverpool fan base reacted 17 years ago when social media wasn’t at the level it is now or was it judgements based on ones you know .Just as I wouldn’t know what Arsenal fans thought over a decade ago when they had players like Toure



I have no idea what the level Mane was when he was with Southampton and certainly no idea if him going away in 15 had any affect but would you say that no Southampton fan minded him going away mid season if he was a key player ?
		
Click to expand...

We are just repeating our povs. I dont feel Africans are massively involved in the world cup. Nor do their federations I'd imagine. Hence why they have their comp every two years. 

Pretty sure I'd said I can only go by the small amount of Liverpool fans relatively that I knew. But even in media. TV interviews etc. Wenger was the only manager that consistently criticised the the AFCON. Maybe Stu and Pete can put us right either way.  Maybe Rafa didn't rate any other african players, or was weary havi g been stung signing too after they had a couple of good games? Not sure the AFCON is the sole reason. 

As to Mane. Nope. I genuinely can't recall a single fan complaining. Now that may well be because every AFCON had been played in winter. So we accepted it. Or maybe we were happy to have a star player and accepted it. I've said before that imo fans of smaller clubs are more accepting of intl footy and appreciate it more as generally that's when we get to see a greater collection of good players. 

Re the AFCON. My entire pov is simply that changing it last year is the only mistake. They shouldn't have pandered to demands then. That Could at least give some clubs a get out as they presumed it wouod stay that way. I understand the frustration. Obv losing 3 star players (if keita continues to improve) is hard to take.


----------



## Slime (Jan 18, 2020)

It seems very simple to me.
If a club doesn't want to lose players for the AFCON, don't buy them.
If that means that fewer Africans come to the Premier League, so be it.
I won't lose any sleep and the world will keep on turning.
Maybe the Africans would then feel the need to change things, which is their prerogative .......... not ours.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 18, 2020)

Slime said:



			It seems very simple to me.
If a club doesn't want to lose players for the AFCON, don't buy them.
If that means that fewer Africans come to the Premier League, so be it.
I won't lose any sleep and the world will keep on turning.
Maybe the Africans would then feel the need to change things, which is their prerogative .......... not ours.
		
Click to expand...

Think a lot of fans are forgetting if you try and stop players going they can be banned from playing for their club until the tournament is over with 

It's happened before it will happen again


----------



## paddyc (Jan 18, 2020)

Paddy C live from the Emirates this afternoon.
Live commentary and heckling.
Big game for gooners today.


----------



## fundy (Jan 18, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Paddy C live from the Emirates this afternoon.
Live commentary and heckling.
Big game for gooners today.
		
Click to expand...

have fun Pat, hope youre a lucky charm! fancy were in for a tough one


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 18, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			We are just repeating our povs. I dont feel Africans are massively involved in the world cup. Nor do their federations I'd imagine. Hence why they have their comp every two years.

Pretty sure I'd said I can only go by the small amount of Liverpool fans relatively that I knew. But even in media. TV interviews etc. Wenger was the only manager that consistently criticised the the AFCON. Maybe Stu and Pete can put us right either way.  Maybe Rafa didn't rate any other african players, or was weary havi g been stung signing too after they had a couple of good games? Not sure the AFCON is the sole reason.

As to Mane. Nope. I genuinely can't recall a single fan complaining. Now that may well be because every AFCON had been played in winter. So we accepted it. Or maybe we were happy to have a star player and accepted it. I've said before that imo fans of smaller clubs are more accepting of intl footy and appreciate it more as generally that's when we get to see a greater collection of good players.

Re the AFCON. My entire pov is simply that changing it last year is the only mistake. They shouldn't have pandered to demands then. That Could at least give some clubs a get out as they presumed it wouod stay that way. I understand the frustration. Obv losing 3 star players (if keita continues to improve) is hard to take.
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool fans never moan about anything, ever, at all.....or at least the match-goers.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 18, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			We are just repeating our povs. I dont feel Africans are massively involved in the world cup. Nor do their federations I'd imagine. Hence why they have their comp every two years.

Pretty sure I'd said I can only go by the small amount of Liverpool fans relatively that I knew. But even in media. TV interviews etc. Wenger was the only manager that consistently criticised the the AFCON. Maybe Stu and Pete can put us right either way.  Maybe Rafa didn't rate any other african players, *or was weary havi g been stung signing too after they had a couple of good games? *Not sure the AFCON is the sole reason.

As to Mane. Nope. I genuinely can't recall a single fan complaining. Now that may well be because every AFCON had been played in winter. So we accepted it. Or maybe we were happy to have a star player and accepted it. I've said before that imo fans of smaller clubs are more accepting of intl footy and appreciate it more as generally that's when we get to see a greater collection of good players.

Re the AFCON. My entire pov is simply that changing it last year is the only mistake. They shouldn't have pandered to demands then. That Could at least give some clubs a get out as they presumed it wouod stay that way. I understand the frustration. Obv losing 3 star players (if keita continues to improve) is hard to take.
		
Click to expand...

Who was he stung by ? 

And the 2019 AFCON was due to be played in Cameroon when they moved it to the summer and not one African nation opposed the change 

And it was moved to put it inline with the European seasons - same with the cup comps 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40657296

There is a bit in the above article where the players want the change as the event in Jan affects their careers


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 18, 2020)

Jeez - one of you start a separate thread on the African Cup of Nations or take it to PM


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 18, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Jeez - one of you start a separate thread on the African Cup of Nations or take it to PM 

Click to expand...

Wonder what’s got you in a tizzy? 🤦‍♂️

Who’d of thought Roy is Peps nemisis 😆


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 18, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Wonder what’s got you in a tizzy? 🤦‍♂️

Who’d of thought Roy is Peps nemisis 😆
		
Click to expand...

Good spot! Although to be fair the debate was pages long before we pressed the self destruct again!


----------



## paddyc (Jan 18, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Paddy C live from the Emirates this afternoon.
Live commentary and heckling.
Big game for gooners today.
		
Click to expand...

Well not a  great game or performance
.Poor first half although we grabbed a late goal which wasn't deserved  2bd half much better and controlled the game but never really created any clear chance. Laca and Pepe had shockers. Sheffield well organised. Probably deserved a point. We really need a top quality striker..Laca is not the man.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who was he stung by ? 

And the 2019 AFCON was due to be played in Cameroon when they moved it to the summer and not one African nation opposed the change 

And it was moved to put it inline with the European seasons - same with the cup comps 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40657296

There is a bit in the above article where the players want the change as the event in Jan affects their careers
		
Click to expand...

Wires crossed by me. Forgot it wasnt Rafa that had signed the two Senegalese players. 

I’m not surprised the players want it changed. They want to make sure they keep their paymasters happy. So it’s hardly surprising chose to keep the money (European leagues happy). 

Nobody at fifa had an issue awarding the World Cup to qatar either. Doesn’t mean it’s the right call. Did you see any of the last AFCON. The footy was awful. I’ve no doubts the weather played its part. 

With a continent that size the weather varies so massively that it is always likely to pay a part. It’s rainy season. They obviously have doubts they could fit all the games in during the summer. What happens then?

The bottom of that article even states that many nations would be ruled out of hosting for such reasons. 

Anyways. I’m out. I don’t think European nations should dictate when another continent plays its footy. I’ve made that clear. You’ll not change my mind. And vice versus


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 18, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Jeez - one of you start a separate thread on the African Cup of Nations or take it to PM 

Click to expand...

😂😂4 whole messages each. Sorry about taking over the thread 🙄🙄


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 18, 2020)

Come on Phil have the last word & that means you’ve won 😂😂


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 18, 2020)

Haland with a decent debut for Dortmund. Cheeky little super sub.


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 18, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			😂😂4 whole messages each. Sorry about taking over the thread 🙄🙄
		
Click to expand...

Wonder what’s got you in a tizzy? 🤦‍♂️

I could do this all night 😆


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 18, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			😂😂4 whole messages each. Sorry about taking over the thread 🙄🙄
		
Click to expand...

Has George Weah got any more cousins knocking about?


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 18, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			😂😂4 whole messages each. Sorry about taking over the thread 🙄🙄
		
Click to expand...

Each quoting every single reply and arguing each separate point since the "debate" began. I actually agree with you (until I lost the will to live) BUT it is easier to just not engage


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 18, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Wonder what’s got you in a tizzy? 🤦‍♂️

I could do this all night 😆
		
Click to expand...

You wait until tomorrow after the "huge" (according to Sky) match that is you vs the used-to-be-contenders...

Oh wait, you'll have added another 2 points to the yawning chasm


----------



## Bazzatron (Jan 18, 2020)

We usually give teams a 1 goal start and win, did it with two today


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 18, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			You wait until tomorrow after the "huge" (according to Sky) match that is you vs the used-to-be-contenders...

Oh wait, you'll have added another 2 points to the yawning chasm 

Click to expand...

Argh don’t talk about us that way, I’ll be the one in a tizzy... 🤦‍♂️😆

Tbh tho, if we do win tomorrow I’ll even admit we’re in a title race...


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 18, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Has George Weah got any more cousins knocking about? 

Click to expand...

You'll have to ask Liverpool legend Sourness (autocorrect ignored) as he signed him 😂😂


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 18, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Wonder what’s got you in a tizzy? 🤦‍♂️

I could do this all night 😆
		
Click to expand...

I do genuinely hope you win the league fella. But this is being saved.... Just in case 😂😂


----------



## fundy (Jan 18, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Well not a  great game or performance
.Poor first half although we grabbed a late goal which wasn't deserved  2bd half much better and controlled the game but never really created any clear chance. Laca and Pepe had shockers. Sheffield well organised. Probably deserved a point. We really need a top quality striker..Laca is not the man.
		
Click to expand...

some lucky charm you were


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 18, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I do genuinely hope you win the league fella. But this is being saved.... Just in case 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

I wouldn’t bother, you’d never hear from me again on this forum 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


----------



## fundy (Jan 18, 2020)

surprised Azpilicueta hasnt taken the refs shirt and whistle, seems to think its his job!


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 18, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			I wouldn’t bother, you’d never hear from me again on this forum 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Oh don't worry. I'll make sure it finds you via WhatsApp or carrier pigeon 😂


----------



## Fish (Jan 18, 2020)

Story of our season, another sucker punch, so much possession (70%) but not scoring or converting so many chances. As soon as they said it was there first corner, I just knew it was coming, we haven’t defended corners or any set pieces well all season, and they’ve led to so many goals. 

As soon as we were getting smothered in the box, I think Batys & Abraham should have played together as a front 2 and probed more. 

Thankfully all other results mean nobody really closed up on us so we’re still 5 points clear, but we’re desperate for a clinical finisher, too much to ask Abraham to do it all on his own.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 18, 2020)

Is that the sound of a little fishy on a little dishy being smashed against the wall in the Midlands.........


----------



## Slime (Jan 18, 2020)

Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea all dropping points!
Gives United a great chance to gain on Chelsea and pull away from the other two.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 18, 2020)

Slime said:



			Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea all dropping points!
Gives United a great chance to gain on Chelsea and pull away from the other two. 

Click to expand...

Or put a positive spin on it tomorrow by at least not falling any further away 🙈🙈


----------



## Jensen (Jan 18, 2020)

Fish said:



			Story of our season, another sucker punch, so much possession (70%) but not scoring or converting so many chances. As soon as they said it was there first corner, I just knew it was coming, we haven’t defended corners or any set pieces well all season, and they’ve led to so many goals.

As soon as we were getting smothered in the box, I think Batys & Abraham should have played together as a front 2 and probed more.

Thankfully all other results mean nobody really closed up on us so we’re still 5 points clear, but we’re desperate for a clinical finisher, too much to ask Abraham to do it all on his own.
		
Click to expand...

Never mind Fishey boy, get yourself out on the Toon and the Bigg Market and drown your sorrows 🍺


----------



## 4LEX (Jan 18, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Well not a  great game or performance
.Poor first half although we grabbed a late goal which wasn't deserved  2bd half much better and controlled the game but never really created any clear chance. Laca and Pepe had shockers. Sheffield well organised. Probably deserved a point. We really need a top quality striker..Laca is not the man.
		
Click to expand...

Arteta has got off to a really poor start. Easy run of games and only the 1 win in 5 league games. Plus a fortunate win after being outplayed by Leeds at home in the cup.

Get used to more shockers from Pepe - the guy is lazy, overrated and another comfort zone player.


----------



## 4LEX (Jan 18, 2020)

Fish said:



			Story of our season, another sucker punch, so much possession (70%) but not scoring or converting so many chances. As soon as they said it was there first corner, I just knew it was coming, we haven’t defended corners or any set pieces well all season, and they’ve led to so many goals.

As soon as we were getting smothered in the box, I think Batys & Abraham should have played together as a front 2 and probed more.

Thankfully all other results mean nobody really closed up on us so we’re still 5 points clear, but we’re desperate for a clinical finisher, too much to ask Abraham to do it all on his own.
		
Click to expand...

I liked the energy from your midfield - very impressive and always quick to get the ball forward. Unfortunately your wingers just overplay way too much and can't cross. And after a decent start Abraham is being found out and is a squad player at this level for the time being. Cavani on loan and 4th is a cert


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 18, 2020)

4LEX said:



			I liked the energy from your midfield - very impressive and always quick to get the ball forward. Unfortunately your wingers just overplay way too much and can't cross. And after a decent start Abraham is being found out and is a squad player at this level for the time being. Cavani on loan and 4th is a cert 

Click to expand...

Chelsea are going to finish 4th - there I no other team that are going to play consistently enough to close the gap and overtake them. Spurs , UTD , Wolves will all keep dropping points until the end of the season - in both live games today you could see the big holes in both Chelsea and Spurs.


----------



## 4LEX (Jan 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Chelsea are going to finish 4th - there I no other team that are going to play consistently enough to close the gap and overtake them. Spurs , UTD , Wolves will all keep dropping points until the end of the season - in both live games today you could see the big holes in both Chelsea and Spurs.
		
Click to expand...

I dunno. If United get Fernandes over the line then I think it'll be close. They've got vastly better forwards and defenders compared to Chelsea. Even with Ole in charge the quality of the squad will tell over 38 games. The United side is underachieving and Chelsea are overachieving at the moment.


----------



## Robin Hood (Jan 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Is that the sound of a little fishy on a little dishy being smashed against the wall in the Midlands.........

Click to expand...

Not in this house....
Great result for the Toon Army. We are on the march again.
"Toon Toon Black n White Army"


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 19, 2020)

Very lack lustre display yesterday.

Serious question, Palace win the award for time wasting display of the season. But it has happened a hell of a lot this season at the Etihad. Am sure it’s a tactic like City’s professional fouls.  But does it go on as much during other games ie Palace v Norwich, I could reel off half a dozen other teams that have done it. But is time wasting rife in the whole of the Prem league. What was funny, the palace keeper took and eternity to take goal kicks. When City went 2-1 up Ederson took an eternity to take a goal kick. The crowd loved it, well til Palace scored that was. 😖😁 
Thoughts from match goers please 😉


----------



## dronfield (Jan 19, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Well not a  great game or performance
.Poor first half although we grabbed a late goal which wasn't deserved  2bd half much better and controlled the game but never really created any clear chance. Laca and Pepe had shockers. Sheffield well organised. Probably deserved a point. We really need a top quality striker..Laca is not the man.
		
Click to expand...

Wilder on Radio Sheff said we only played for first and last 10 mins of game, and so a point was prob fortunate today. 
Only 7 points from safety - not bad considering we were relegation favourites.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 19, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Very lack lustre display yesterday.

Serious question, Palace win the award for time wasting display of the season. But it has happened a hell of a lot this season at the Etihad. Am sure it’s a tactic like City’s professional fouls.  But does it go on as much during other games ie Palace v Norwich, I could reel off half a dozen other teams that have done it. But is time wasting rife in the whole of the Prem league. What was funny, the palace keeper took and eternity to take goal kicks. When City went 2-1 up Ederson took an eternity to take a goal kick. The crowd loved it, well til Palace scored that was. 😖😁
Thoughts from match goers please 😉
		
Click to expand...

Every team is guilty of it when it suits them.
But there are the teams that take it to the extreme.
You are one of the best teams so if a “lesser “ team wastes time it’s a compliment but for the fans it’s not great to watch.
Maybe a timekeeper is needed?
Var could be used for proving time wasting ,how ironic would that be?


----------



## fundy (Jan 19, 2020)

they added 2 mins on at ht in the Spurs game yesterday when there had been a 3 1/2 min stoppage to sort the refs earpiece/var out. wouldnt bank on it


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			they added 2 mins on at ht in the Spurs game yesterday when there had been a 3 1/2 min stoppage to sort the refs earpiece/var out. wouldnt bank on it 

Click to expand...

Me neither they have always and always will just have a guess.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 19, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Very lack lustre display yesterday.

Serious question, Palace win the award for time wasting display of the season. But it has happened a hell of a lot this season at the Etihad. Am sure it’s a tactic like City’s professional fouls.  But does it go on as much during other games ie Palace v Norwich, I could reel off half a dozen other teams that have done it. But is time wasting rife in the whole of the Prem league. What was funny, the palace keeper took and eternity to take goal kicks. When City went 2-1 up Ederson took an eternity to take a goal kick. The crowd loved it, well til Palace scored that was. 😖😁 
Thoughts from match goers please 😉
		
Click to expand...

It's annoying when teams do it from the 1st whistle and the ref allows it to continue then books the keeper in the 89th min when hes done it all game.

I understand and  expect it towards the end of a game though.


----------



## fundy (Jan 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It's annoying when teams do it from the 1st whistle and the ref allows it to continue then books the keeper in the 89th min when hes done it all game.

I understand and  expect it towards the end of a game though.
		
Click to expand...


can be very profitable when that happens  keeper booking odds oft overstated in certain games


----------



## Bazzatron (Jan 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It's annoying when teams do it from the 1st whistle and the ref allows it to continue then books the keeper in the 89th min when hes done it all game.

I understand and  expect it towards the end of a game though.
		
Click to expand...

Burnley and Ben Foster both at it from the first whistle.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 19, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Burnley and Ben Foster both at it from the first whistle.
		
Click to expand...

Foster is probably the worst for it. It's funny though how quick they change tactics when the concede 2 or 3 quick goals.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 19, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Very lack lustre display yesterday.

Serious question, Palace win the award for time wasting display of the season. But it has happened a hell of a lot this season at the Etihad. Am sure it’s a tactic like City’s professional fouls.  But does it go on as much during other games ie Palace v Norwich, I could reel off half a dozen other teams that have done it. But is time wasting rife in the whole of the Prem league. What was funny, the palace keeper took and eternity to take goal kicks. When City went 2-1 up Ederson took an eternity to take a goal kick. The crowd loved it, well til Palace scored that was. 😖😁
Thoughts from match goers please 😉
		
Click to expand...

No has been a problem for the last 10 years. We've all done it but it doesnt make it right, either.

I just hate the formulaic way that refs deal with it - dont book the keeper until at least the 75th minute, and never, ever send him off for it. I think the ref should have the power to add on extra minutes over and above the "injury time" for serial offenders. Book a keeper after he has done it 3 times, not 12 times, and send him off as well, if required.


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 19, 2020)

That United line up is another example of how Solskjaer is so far out of his depth. 

I stand by that even if we do somehow scab something from the game.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 19, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			That United line up is another example of how Solskjaer is so far out of his depth. 

I stand by that even if we do somehow scab something from the game.
		
Click to expand...

Looking at the bench he’s short of options.

We are short all over the pitch,lots of building to be done.

Oli has proved before he has some tactical nouse.

Liverpool are streets ahead of us and 99% of other teams.

Roy Keane is worried.

Rashford is a massive loss I think I would do well in Liverpools defence today and I can only walk


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 19, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1218929828470185986
It’s like Galatasaray all over again 😳😂😂


----------



## Beezerk (Jan 19, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1218929828470185986
It’s like Galatasaray all over again 😳😂😂
		
Click to expand...



Scouse trash.


----------



## Piece (Jan 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Foster is probably the worst for it. It's funny though how quick they change tactics when the concede 2 or 3 quick goals.
		
Click to expand...

Big Ben does faff, but Burnley are head and shoulders the worst time wasters. All teams are great at wasting time when it suits.


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 19, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Looking at the bench he’s short of options.

We are short all over the pitch,lots of building to be done.

Oli has proved before he has some tactical nouse.

Liverpool are streets ahead of us and 99% of other teams.

Roy Keane is worried.

Rashford is a massive loss I think I would do well in Liverpools defence today and I can only walk
		
Click to expand...

We’re worse in just about every way since Mourinho left, and he wasn’t good enough. We need a more experienced manager.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 19, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			We’re worse in just about every way since Mourinho left, and he wasn’t good enough. We need a more experienced manager.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed.
Ole just looks way out of his depth,did from day 1 imo. 
Imagine him having to deal with Pogbas ego.


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 19, 2020)

Play five defenders. Get Fred to mark VVD. Ole’s at the wheel.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 19, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			We’re worse in just about every way since Mourinho left, and he wasn’t good enough. We need a more experienced manager.[/QUOTE
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Dando (Jan 19, 2020)

Shocking decision from var When the keepers dropped the ball


----------



## Slime (Jan 19, 2020)

Dando said:



			Shocking decision from var When the keepers dropped the ball
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely correct decision.
The player just jumped at the keeper and wasn't even looking at the ball.


----------



## Piece (Jan 19, 2020)

I’d call that lightweight goalkeeping.


----------



## garyinderry (Jan 19, 2020)

Slime said:



			Absolutely correct decision.
The player just jumped at the keeper and wasn't even looking at the ball.
		
Click to expand...


It's not even a hard call.


----------



## fundy (Jan 19, 2020)

Slime said:



			Absolutely correct decision.
The player just jumped at the keeper and wasn't even looking at the ball.
		
Click to expand...

lol take the tints off


----------



## Beezerk (Jan 19, 2020)

Dando said:



			Shocking decision from var When the keepers dropped the ball
		
Click to expand...

Van Dyke jumped into him for me, watch him before he jumps, has a quick look at the keeper then just goes into him. Ref was going to blow buy let play run which was silly really, just give the foul.


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 19, 2020)

Clear foul on DDG. That’s one of those that really isn’t even debatable.


----------



## Dando (Jan 19, 2020)

Slime said:



			Absolutely correct decision.
The player just jumped at the keeper and wasn't even looking at the ball.
		
Click to expand...

😂🤣😂🤣


----------



## Beezerk (Jan 19, 2020)

Piece said:



			I’d call that lightweight goalkeeping.
		
Click to expand...

But a foul still.
I've just thought, are us armchair fans actually allowed to discuss the match in real time? I mean the proper fans are all at the match 🤭🤣


----------



## Dando (Jan 19, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Clear foul on DDG. That’s one of those that really isn’t even debatable.
		
Click to expand...

So your not allowed to challenge the keeper now


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 19, 2020)

End to end stuff here. 

Up our end, we hoof it, back up our end, we hoof it...


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 19, 2020)

Dando said:



			So your not allowed to challenge the keeper now
		
Click to expand...

Not by jumping into him like that, no.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 19, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			But a foul still.
I've just thought, are us armchair fans actually allowed to discuss the match in real time? I mean the proper fans are all at the match 🤭🤣
		
Click to expand...

We can but clearly our views are pretty worthless in comparison 😁


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 19, 2020)

Superb tackle there by James. Shame it was on Pereira...


----------



## Piece (Jan 19, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			But a foul still.
I've just thought, are us armchair fans actually allowed to discuss the match in real time? I mean the proper fans are all at the match 🤭🤣
		
Click to expand...

I would still call it lightweight from DDG and this armchair & live game going fan has no skin in this game 😃🤣


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 19, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			We’re worse in just about every way since Mourinho left, and he wasn’t good enough. We need a more experienced manager.
		
Click to expand...

What a more experienced manager than Jose.
As proven experience isn’t everything


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 19, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			What a more experienced manager than Jose.
As proven experience isn’t everything
		
Click to expand...

Than Ole.


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 19, 2020)

And Keane talking out of his hole there. VVD’s shoulder clearly causes DDG’s left arm to collapse slightly.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 19, 2020)

Never a foul - jumping for the ball , eye on the ball all the time , arms down , DDG not strong enough - fair challenge all day long. Embarrassing that it was ruled out but I’m not surprised


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 19, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Never a foul - jumping for the ball , eye on the ball all the time , arms down , DDG not strong enough - fair challenge all day long. Embarrassing that it was ruled out but I’m not surprised
		
Click to expand...

Arms down?are you blind
His arms were up for leverage
Never a foul though imo


----------



## Beezerk (Jan 19, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Never a foul - jumping for the ball , eye on the ball all the time , arms down , DDG not strong enough - fair challenge all day long. Embarrassing that it was ruled out but I’m not surprised
		
Click to expand...

You sound like that idiot Souness (who needs putting out to graze btw) 🤣
Watch it again, VVD has a quick look at the keeper before jumping in, he knows exactly what he's doing.


----------



## Dando (Jan 19, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Not by jumping into him like that, no.
		
Click to expand...

Keepers know full well that the slightest touch on them and it’s a free kick


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 19, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Never a foul - jumping for the ball , eye on the ball all the time , arms down , DDG not strong enough - fair challenge all day long. Embarrassing that it was ruled out but I’m not surprised
		
Click to expand...

Did you miss Mane rolling around again


----------



## 3offTheTee (Jan 19, 2020)

Sorry to ask but prior to ‘the foul’ on De Gea why were The Liverpool players onside when the ball was played?


----------



## Beezerk (Jan 19, 2020)

Great game, just needs a Man utd goal to get it really going. Not going to happen though 🤣


----------



## Piece (Jan 19, 2020)

Alisson may as well break out his deck chair and iPod.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 19, 2020)

They are going to get something from this - can just see it 🤦‍♂️

And not great news about Rashford - played with a small stress fracture in his back and now it’s a double stress fracture and out for months , why the hell would you play him 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Dando (Jan 19, 2020)

Piece said:



			Alisson may as well break out his deck chair and iPod.
		
Click to expand...

he could make some notes for de gea about catching a football


----------



## Slime (Jan 19, 2020)

This is desperate.
I'm sure L'pool have 2 or 3 more players on the pitch.
United being totally and utterly outplayed, but, so long as there's only one goal in it there is a weeny bit of hope.


----------



## Slime (Jan 19, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They are going to get something from this - can just see it 🤦‍♂️

*And not great news about Rashford *- played with a small stress fracture in his back and now it’s a double stress fracture and out for months , why the hell would you play him 🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

If Woodward had done his job properly we'd have Haaland as a Rashford replacement.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 19, 2020)

How did Salah miss what a one season wonder.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 19, 2020)

On a more important note. What's with that kit? Did the kitman mix the reds and whites wash together?


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 19, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			On a more important note. What's with that kit? Did the kitman mix the reds and whites wash together?
		
Click to expand...

Trust a women to worry about fashion


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 19, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Trust a women to worry about fashion
		
Click to expand...

What's got you in a tizzy


----------



## Dando (Jan 19, 2020)

That man u fella can shift!


----------



## Slime (Jan 19, 2020)

Fair play to 'Pool and a fair result.
At least Utd showed a bit of steel towards the end.
You can't win without a midfield.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 19, 2020)

Great game and UTD played their part in it - battled well but clearly missing some players in key positions - up front and in the middle of the park.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 19, 2020)

Slime said:



			Fair play to 'Pool and a fair result.
At least Utd showed a bit of steel towards the end.
You can't win without a midfield.
		
Click to expand...

Tell me how we were up front?
We are a long way off in loads of areas.
Thought Fred had his best game in a Utd shirt


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 19, 2020)

Champions performance. Controlled us comfortably in large periods. Could’ve had more goals. Weathered the storm when we rallied. Took the second so calmly.


----------



## Slime (Jan 19, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



*Tell me how we were up front?*
We are a long way off in loads of areas.
Thought Fred had his best game in a Utd shirt
		
Click to expand...

Very poor.


----------



## Dando (Jan 19, 2020)

Slime said:



			Very poor.
		
Click to expand...

that’s being generous


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 19, 2020)

Dando said:



			that’s being generous
		
Click to expand...

They prob need a one season wonder 😂


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 19, 2020)

3offTheTee said:



			Sorry to ask but prior to ‘the foul’ on De Gea why were The Liverpool players onside when the ball was played?
		
Click to expand...

Really VVD was onside that’s all that matters.
You can have a ciggie leaning on the post as long as you don’t try and play the ball you are not active.
VAR embarrassing.
Watch the one in the Everton game on DDG same ref .


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 19, 2020)

Just seen the disallowed goal. For me it’s always gonna be ruled out.

He glances at the keeper and then doesn’t win the ball. ah go under the soft category, but that’s been a foul for quite a few seasons v


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 19, 2020)

This as got to be the poorest Premier league ever.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 19, 2020)

The UTD squad needs some quality expirence in there - some good youngsters there but missing some big players in the middle of the park plus a striker. 

You could tell the difference between VVD and Maguire today , Williams looks a good player but they are missing someone like Henderson , Gini or a Milner to show leadership and quality in the midfield. 

Pogba is the biggest headache - is it time to build around him or sell and bring in better ? 


Saw the other game as well and Pope showed why he should the England number 1 outstanding all game.


----------



## adam6177 (Jan 19, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			How did Salah miss what a one season wonder.
		
Click to expand...

 👍


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 19, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			This as got to be the poorest Premier league ever.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on
Absolutely no depth whatsoever


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 19, 2020)

Has their front 3 still scored more than ours? 

I’ve a feeling this could be our year 😀


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 19, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Has their front 3 still scored more than ours?

I’ve a feeling this could be our *year *😀
		
Click to expand...

poor year though 😂😂 worst ever 😂

#unbearables


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 19, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The UTD squad needs some quality expirence in there - some good youngsters there but missing some big players in the middle of the park plus a striker. 

You could tell the difference between VVD and Maguire today , Williams looks a good player but they are missing someone like Henderson , Gini or a Milner to show leadership and quality in the midfield. 

Pogba is the biggest headache - is it time to build around him or sell and bring in better ? 


Saw the other game as well and Pope showed why he should the England number 1 outstanding all game.
		
Click to expand...

Williams out  of his depth today unfortunately but will become a good player.
VVD streets ahead of Maguire.
Don’t think Ole will go gunho on purchases especially if being held to ransom.
However if he wants a player he has to go in hard like Haaland for example


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 19, 2020)

I think Ole would go gung ho on transfers if he could. Unfortunately, he's not responsible, Ed Woodward is, which is the main reason for the failings in this squad. They need a decent Director of Football and they need one soon.


----------



## Slime (Jan 19, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



*Tell me how we were up front?*
We are a long way off in loads of areas.
Thought Fred had his best game in a Utd shirt
		
Click to expand...




Slime said:



			Very poor.
		
Click to expand...




Dando said:



			that’s being generous
		
Click to expand...

Very, very poor?


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 19, 2020)

Love Roy Keane won’t take no rubbish talk off Carragher 
Liverpool supporters such short memories


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 19, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			poor year though 😂😂 worst ever 😂

#unbearables
		
Click to expand...

Not sure what’s so funny tbh Phillip.

So how highly do you rate Chelsea,Man Utd,Arsenal,Spurs & even City? 
I name these as they are the team usually at the top end of the table.


----------



## Jensen (Jan 19, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Love Roy Keane won’t take no rubbish talk off Carragher
Liverpool supporters such short memories
		
Click to expand...

Short memories.....no they're long, they'll be able to tell you when they last won the league 😂


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 19, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			I think Ole would go gung ho on transfers if he could. Unfortunately, he's not responsible, Ed Woodward is, which is the main reason for the failings in this squad. They need a decent Director of Football and they need one soon.
		
Click to expand...

Woodward is killing United with his lack of desire to get some decent players in. I think he thought they would be building a team around Pogba for the next few seasons but he seems a real let down when fit and rarely puts in a full 90 minute shift for the side. 

Liverpool deserved the win and dominated in every department.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 19, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Woodward is killing United with his lack of desire to get some decent players in. I think he thought they would be building a team around Pogba for the next few seasons but he seems a real let down when fit and rarely puts in a full 90 minute shift for the side.

Liverpool deserved the win and dominated in every department.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t think I’ve heard one person or commentator mention Liverpool dominating in every department.
If they did I would say they no nothing about football


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 19, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			I don’t think I’ve heard one person or commentator mention Liverpool dominating in every department.
If they did I would say they no nothing about football
		
Click to expand...

I thought Unt had some good moments ,but your finishing was worse than ours.
The service to the strikers wasn’t good
We could have been four up at half time ,but when you don’t get the second goal it’s nervy.
I thought when you came out and had a go we looked a bit stretched

In the end we deserved the win but it was harder than it should have been.
But dominated every dept no. Fred played very well but is on his own often.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 19, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			How did Salah miss what a one season wonder.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂 one season winder yet hes won the golden boot 2 seasons on the bounce.

Stick to running Tone 😁😁


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 19, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Love Roy Keane won’t take no rubbish talk off Carragher 
Liverpool supporters such short memories
		
Click to expand...

Some of us" match going divvies"  still remember the Hodgson days ...........


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			😂😂😂 one season winder yet hes won the golden boot 2 seasons on the bounce.

Stick to running Tone 😁😁
		
Click to expand...

Lol
Wasn’t it a draw?
Probably one of the lowest goals scored for a GB
That’s one for the googlers


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Some of us" match going divvies"  still remember the Hodgson days ...........
		
Click to expand...

Still having nightmares


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 19, 2020)

Why always me?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51169749 

13 red cards in a career suggests Mario its because you're impulsive and petulant


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 19, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Lol
Wasn’t it a draw?
Probably one of the lowest goals scored for a GB
That’s one for the googlers
		
Click to expand...

Was he 2nd?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 19, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Lol
Wasn’t it a draw?
Probably one of the lowest goals scored for a GB
That’s one for the googlers
		
Click to expand...

Maybe the defending was a bit better!


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 19, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Still having nightmares
		
Click to expand...

Just typing his name sends shivers down my spine.....


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Just typing his name sends shivers down my spine.....
		
Click to expand...

Roy did well yesterday though.!


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Was he 2nd?
		
Click to expand...

Yes
Alphabetical order


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 19, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Roy did well yesterday though.!
		
Click to expand...

Even a stuck clock is right twice a day!!!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Even a stuck clock is right twice a day!!!
		
Click to expand...

Each time against City though 😂👍


----------



## fundy (Jan 19, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Each time against City though 😂👍
		
Click to expand...

about time he got some good results for Liverpool


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 19, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1218971229392134145
🤦‍♂️😂

Some great “quotes” floating around Twitter 

Seems we just played it long and couldnt carve UTD open 

And a striker isn’t a desperate need 😲

Doing a great job with the bus


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Some of us" match going divvies"  still remember the Hodgson days ...........
		
Click to expand...

Yeah & you like to talk about it every now & then 😆


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 19, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			You sound like that idiot Souness (who needs putting out to graze btw) 🤣
Watch it again, VVD has a quick look at the keeper before jumping in, he knows exactly what he's doing.
		
Click to expand...

Do you honestly think anyone listens to your tripe on here? Seriously, do you?

You say 99 things out of 100 against us, so your opinion is neither valued or sought, you dont bring nothing to the table, unless you want to weigh something in bile. Your a keyboard warrior of the worst kind, never talking about neutral subjects, just us.

Frankly, your extremely boring.

Anyway now the dickhead is out of the way, how can VAR overturn the Firminho goal, and allow the Calvert Lewin one a few weeks ago, in which he did put his arm across the keepers face, yet didnt overturn it. They have overturned the onfield decision, as a "clear and obvious error" - why?


----------



## Beezerk (Jan 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Do you honestly think anyone listens to your tripe on here? Seriously, do you?

You say 99 things out of 100 against us, so your opinion is neither valued or sought, you dont bring nothing to the table, unless you want to weigh something in bile. Your a keyboard warrior of the worst kind, never talking about neutral subjects, just us.

Frankly, your extremely boring.

Anyway now the dickhead is out of the way, how can VAR overturn the Firminho goal, and allow the Calvert Lewin one a few weeks ago, in which he did put his arm across the keepers face, yet didnt overturn it. They have overturned the onfield decision, as a "clear and obvious error" - why?
		
Click to expand...

Ooh the forum mafia is back in town, it's been a while.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 19, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Yes
Alphabetical order 

Click to expand...

Really??

 I thought it was follows.....


Mo Salah
Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang
Sadie Mane

😉


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Do you honestly think anyone listens to your tripe on here? Seriously, do you?

You say 99 things out of 100 against us, so your opinion is neither valued or sought, you dont bring nothing to the table, unless you want to weigh something in bile. Your a keyboard warrior of the worst kind, never talking about neutral subjects, just us.

Frankly, your extremely boring.

Anyway now the dickhead is out of the way, how can VAR overturn the Firminho goal, and allow the Calvert Lewin one a few weeks ago, in which he did put his arm across the keepers face, yet didnt overturn it. They have overturned the onfield decision, as a "clear and obvious error" - why?
		
Click to expand...

For me, the biggest difference Pete is that imo VVD looks at DDG and is not making a great effort to really win the ball. Just rewatched the Everton goal as couldn’t recall it. It looks to me that DDG is jumping it Calvert just as much as Calvert is going it DDG. 

Anyways, relax fella. You need to save you VAR favours for the tough games 😉


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 19, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Ooh the forum mafia is back in town, it's been a while.
		
Click to expand...

A dead horses head speaks more sense than you, kidder.

Maybe an ass does also.


----------



## Fish (Jan 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			A horses head speaks more sense than you, kidder.

Click to expand...

Swim with the 🐟🐟🐟🐟


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 19, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			For me, the biggest difference Pete is that imo VVD looks at DDG and is not making a great effort to really win the ball. Just rewatched the Everton goal as couldn’t recall it. It looks to me that DDG is jumping it Calvert just as much as Calvert is going it DDG.

Anyways, relax fella. You need to save you VAR favours for the tough games 😉
		
Click to expand...

Yes, but Calvert lewin put his arm across the face of DDG which would always (normally) see it disallowed. If VVD make any contact with DDG's head or "whacks" his arm, but DDG gets two hands on it and then just drops it.

A subjective one, I'll grant you, but to overturn it as a clear and obvious error? Not for me - Keane I know said the same, did Neville also?


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Do you honestly think anyone listens to your tripe on here? Seriously, do you?

You say 99 things out of 100 against us, so your opinion is neither valued or sought, you dont bring nothing to the table, unless you want to weigh something in bile. Your a keyboard warrior of the worst kind, never talking about neutral subjects, just us.

Frankly, your extremely boring.

Anyway now the dickhead is out of the way, how can VAR overturn the Firminho goal, and allow the Calvert Lewin one a few weeks ago, in which he did put his arm across the keepers face, yet didnt overturn it. They have overturned the onfield decision, as a "clear and obvious error" - why?
		
Click to expand...

They can’t just award a goal today because they made an error the last time. That would be much worse.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 19, 2020)

It wouldnt be "awarding a goal", it would be letting the onfield decision stand, the burden of proof is different, and important.

Dont know why I'm saying them words....


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, but Calvert lewin put his arm across the face of DDG which would always (normally) see it disallowed. If VVD make any contact with DDG's head or "whacks" his arm, but DDG gets two hands on it and then just drops it.

A subjective one, I'll grant you, but to overturn it as a clear and obvious error? Not for me - Keane I know said the same, did Neville also?
		
Click to expand...

yes Neville said the same , only one who disagrees was Evra - Souness had it spot on about the refs 

I find it embarrassing that it was overruled but I suppose it removes the myth about “var” tainting things in our favour


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, but Calvert lewin put his arm across the face of DDG which would always (normally) see it disallowed. If VVD make any contact with DDG's head or "whacks" his arm, but DDG gets two hands on it and then just drops it.

A subjective one, I'll grant you, but to overturn it as a clear and obvious error? Not for me - Keane I know said the same, did Neville also?
		
Click to expand...

I think the biggest issue is “clear and obvious error”. I’m not sure that has been put into practice. All the armpit offsides for a start would fall foul of that too. 

I only saw the replay at full time. Then the missus has the tv off. I’d not be surprised if Neville called it a goal tbh. I take what Keane says with a pinch of salt. He says whatever he thinks makes him look best (generally slagging any team off).


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			It wouldnt be "awarding a goal", it would be letting the onfield decision stand, the burden of proof is different, and important.

Dont know why I'm saying them words....

Click to expand...

It equates to the same thing. Look at the ref as it happens - it’s clear he sees a foul but then decides to let play roll and allow VAR to make the call.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 19, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			yes Neville said the same , only one who disagrees was Evra - Souness had it spot on about the refs

I find it embarrassing that it was overruled but I suppose it *removes the myth about “var” tainting things in our favour*

Click to expand...

One swallow does not a Summer make


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 19, 2020)

We controlled that game and deserved to win, it should've been wrapped up sooner though.  Remember last season people on here said Alisson should've done better against Burnley for a challenge that was worse than VVd's  tonight on DDG. ....

Anyway we're winning this league no matter what,  so enjoy singing yer murderers/victims songs because it'll taste even sweeter come May....long may it  continue .... YSB 

#unbearables #taintedtitle #ifithadnthavebeenforvar


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 19, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			One swallow does not a Summer make 

Click to expand...

One correct decision does not prove any errors on something either.


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			We controlled that game and deserved to win, it should've been wrapped up sooner though.  Remember last season people on here said Alisson should've done better against Burnley for a challenge that was worse than VVd's  tonight on DDG. ....

Anyway we're winning this league no matter what,  so enjoy singing yer murderers/victims songs because it'll taste even sweeter come May....long may it  continue .... YSB 

#unbearables #taintedtitle #ifithadnthavebeenforvar
		
Click to expand...

You’re the second fan to come on clearly a tad inebriated and overtly aggressive in the face of no provocation since the result. 

And to think how often Liverpool fans will state that others are obsessed with them. 🤷🏼‍♂️


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, but Calvert lewin put his arm across the face of DDG which would always (normally) see it disallowed. If VVD make any contact with DDG's head or "whacks" his arm, but DDG gets two hands on it and then just drops it.

A subjective one, I'll grant you, but to overturn it as a clear and obvious error? Not for me - Keane I know said the same, did Neville also?
		
Click to expand...

You could argue DDG came up under DCL’s arm, DCL is above him watching the ball, VVD looks at DDG and jumped into him.

Quite happy that both could of been disallowed or allowed to stand.

Why anyone would expect consistency from Officials though is beyond me.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 19, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			It equates to the same thing. Look at the ref as it happens - it’s clear he sees a foul but then decides to let play roll and allow VAR to make the call.
		
Click to expand...

I can remember Mike Riley doing exactly the same against chelsea circa 2006 kop end when Tiago blatantly handled the ball and he played on  only there was no VAR then...

Even  the most anti liverpool commentator said it was soft. 


Anyway we Won,deservedly, 
And that's a all that matters now. 

Yernited are shit.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 19, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			You’re the second fan to come on clearly a tad inebriated and overtly aggressive in the face of no provocation since the result.

And to think how often Liverpool fans will state that others are obsessed with them. 🤷🏼‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

I believe that Stu is prob aiming his post more at the scum fans today who if reports are to believed dragged out the disgraceful chants again and we have already seen one poster refer to Liverpool fans as “scouse trash “


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 19, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I think the biggest issue is “clear and obvious error”. I’m not sure that has been put into practice. All the armpit offsides for a start would fall foul of that too.

I only saw the replay at full time. Then the missus has the tv off. I’d not be surprised if Neville called it a goal tbh. I take what Keane says with a pinch of salt. He says whatever he thinks makes him look best (generally slagging any team off).
		
Click to expand...

I’d take anything a guy says with a pinch of salt that lets the wife have the tv controls


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 19, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			You’re the second fan to come on clearly a tad inebriated and overtly aggressive in the face of no provocation since the result. 

And to think how often Liverpool fans will state that others are obsessed with them. 🤷🏼‍♂️
		
Click to expand...




Kellfire said:



			You’re the second fan to come on clearly a tad inebriated and overtly aggressive in the face of no provocation since the result. 

And to think how often Liverpool fans will state that others are obsessed with them. 🤷🏼‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

😂😂 You couldn't be further from the the truth. 

I'm currently doing dry january and beyond (hopefully) so havent had a beer since 29th dec so certainly not inebriated unless they laced my tea with alcohol ath alf time....   

I know what I heard today whilst I sat above your lot,luckily I havent forgotten  you've got form for defending the bile from your away support.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 19, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			I’d take anything a guy says with a pinch of salt that lets the wife have the tv controls
		
Click to expand...

Touché

Glad to see you’re Still bitter about Burnham 😂😂


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 19, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You could argue DDG came up under DCL’s arm, DCL is above him watching the ball, VVD looks at DDG and jumped into him.

Quite happy that both could of been disallowed or allowed to stand.

Why anyone would expect consistency from Officials though is beyond me.
		
Click to expand...

Normally when a hand goes across a keepers face, its given in their favour, no matter who jumps at who (even though both are going for the ball).

People are saying "well VVD looks at DDG" - and you wouldnt expect the person you are challenging to do the same, as well?

As Souness said, "what less could VVD have done to challenge him"? The only thing less would have been to not make any contact at all, and nowhere does it say in the rules that you cant make contact with a keeper.


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			😂😂 You couldn't be further from the the truth. 

I'm currently doing dry january and beyond (hopefully) so havent had a beer since 29th dec so certainly not inebriated unless they laced my tea with alcohol ath alf time....   

I know what I heard today whilst I sat above your lot,luckily I havent forgotten  you've got form for defending the bile from your away support.
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough then, just seems like you’re aiming it at the wrong audience then.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Normally when a hand goes across a keepers face, its given in their favour, no matter who jumps at who (even though both are going for the ball).

People are saying "well VVD looks at DDG" - and you wouldnt expect the person you are challenging to do the same, as well?

As Souness said, "what less could VVD have done to challenge him"? The only thing less would have been to not make any contact at all, and nowhere does it say in the rules that you cant make contact with a keeper.
		
Click to expand...

But with benefit of 47 replays from 20 angles while sitting in my armchair, VVD gets nowhere near the ball and jumps into DDG not up for the ball.
VVD was trying (imo) to put DDG off, not expecting to get the ball.

On another day, with another Ref, he gets away with it.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 19, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Touché

Glad to see you’re Still bitter about Burnham 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Haha never get over it


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 19, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Fair enough then, just seems like you’re aiming it at the wrong audience then.
		
Click to expand...

Wrong audience??  It was a genuine 
 comment based on being there today,  nevertheless I've read many times on here "victim" shouts.....


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Wrong audience??  It was a genuine 
 comment based on being there today,  nevertheless I've read many times on here "victim" shouts.....
		
Click to expand...

But isn’t the thing that Liverpool fans claim to be above such things. Or is that only the case when you’re not winning?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 19, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			But with benefit of 47 replays from 20 angles while sitting in my armchair, VVD gets nowhere near the ball and jumps into DDG not up for the ball.
VVD was trying (imo) to put DDG off, not expecting to get the ball.

On another day, with another Ref, he gets away with it.
		
Click to expand...

It's funny how we see it differently  I was right behind it and it looked to me VVD jumped up for the ball and not into DDG, he flapped it imo.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 19, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			But with benefit of 47 replays from 20 angles while sitting in my armchair, VVD gets nowhere near the ball and jumps into DDG not up for the ball.
VVD was trying (imo) to put DDG off, not expecting to get the ball.

On another day, with another Ref, he gets away with it.
		
Click to expand...

He gets within 6 inches of the ball.

With that ref it wasnt getting given, but somehow the VAR ref felt it was a clear and obvious error, which it clearly wasnt. Very split opinions on it.

How bigs your telly?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 19, 2020)

P



Kellfire said:



			But isn’t the thing that Liverpool fans claim to be above such things. Or is that only the case when you’re not winning?
		
Click to expand...

🙄🙄

Like I said come what may when if  we win it, then it'll taste even sweeter after all the shite has been thrown at us.  

I don't think I can be much clearer in what I've said. If you want to carry it on send me a pm and I'll gladly discuss it  further.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jan 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			He gets within 6 inches of the ball.

With that ref it wasnt getting given, but somehow the VAR ref felt it was a clear and obvious error, which it clearly wasnt. Very split opinions on it.

How bigs your telly?

Click to expand...

The commentary said he (the ref) was the VAR ref who judged the Clavert Lewin incident ok.......


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 19, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			The commentary said he (the ref) was the VAR ref who judged the Clavert Lewin incident ok.......
		
Click to expand...

Clearly hasnt got a clue what hes doing then.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jan 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Clearly hasnt got a clue what hes doing then. 

Click to expand...

Didn't say he did


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			P

🙄🙄

Like I said come what may when if  we win it, then it'll taste even sweeter after all the shite has been thrown at us.  

I don't think I can be much clearer in what I've said. If you want to carry it on send me a pm and I'll gladly discuss it  further.
		
Click to expand...

No need, fella. Enjoy your night and the formalities until it’s official. I don’t think you’ll be waiting very long!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It's funny how we see it differently  I was right behind it and it looked to me VVD jumped up for the ball and not into DDG, he flapped it imo.
		
Click to expand...




Liverbirdie said:



			He gets within 6 inches of the ball.

With that ref it wasnt getting given, but somehow the VAR ref felt it was a clear and obvious error, which it clearly wasnt. Very split opinions on it.

How bigs your telly?

Click to expand...

As I’ve put, you see them go either way, but if you get the chance have a look at VVD’s starting position, he doesn’t jump up with DDG, he jumps in to him and with not getting the ball and making contact they give a foul.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 19, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			As I’ve put, you see them go either way, but if you get the chance have a look at VVD’s starting position, he doesn’t jump up with DDG, he jumps in to him and with not getting the ball and making contact they give a foul.
		
Click to expand...

Goalkeepers arent exempt from being tackled you know??

I'll look at it again from the comfort of my armchair though, I might see it differently...... doubt it though 😉


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Goalkeepers arent exempt from being tackled you know??

I'll look at it again from the comfort of my armchair though, I might see it differently...... doubt it though 😉
		
Click to expand...

You’ve only seen it once wearing a half n half, I saw it loads.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Goalkeepers arent exempt from being tackled you know??

I'll look at it again from the comfort of my armchair though, I might see it differently...... doubt it though 😉
		
Click to expand...

Just seen it, pathetic decision. 

Burnley scored one against us last season were there player had 2 hands on Allisons shoulders and it was given.

VVD has kept his eye on the ball all through the challenge. 

I hope Klopp gets a refund on his VAR payments


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 19, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You’ve only seen it once wearing a half n half, I saw it loads.

Click to expand...

Shit... was I on the box?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Just seen it, pathetic decision.

Burnley scored one against us *last season* were there player had 2 hands on Allisons shoulders and it was given.

VVD has kept his eye on the ball all through the challenge.

I hope Klopp gets a refund on his VAR payments
		
Click to expand...

Pre-VAR doesn’t count.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 19, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			As I’ve put, you see them go either way, but if you get the chance have a look at VVD’s starting position, he doesn’t jump up with DDG, he jumps in to him and with not getting the ball and making contact they give a foul.
		
Click to expand...

I disagree, and think we may be nearing "tizzy" status. 

Enough about that goal.

I thought Henderson, Ginny and VVD were immense and hard to split for MOM. Fred for them, and I thought Williams did okay for them, overall.

4-0  or 4-1 wouldnt have flattered us, although Martial was trying to score a great goal, instead of just a goal. Made Neville's pre-match comments about him all the more funny. Man U made a decent start by putting us under pressure, but once we found our feet, we had 2 great phases in the match where we were all over them and with normal finishing would have put it well beyond them. However, it was a nervy last 15, but the 2nd was the least we deserved.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I disagree, and think we may be nearing "tizzy" status. 

Enough about that goal.

I thought Henderson, Ginny and VVD were immense and hard to split for MOM. Fred for them, and I thought Williams did okay for them, overall.

4-0  or 4-1 wouldnt have flattered us, although Martial was trying to score a great goal, instead of just a goal. Made Neville's pre-match comments about him all the more funny. Man U made a decent start by putting us under pressure, but once we found our feet, we had 2 great phases in the match where we were all over them and with normal finishing would have put it well beyond them. However, it was a nervy last 15, but the 2nd was the least we deserved.
		
Click to expand...

You should of had the game finished by half time without a doubt, you’ve certainly made a couple of games look more nervy than they should of been on possession and chances created.

Season is over as far as yous winning it, the next question is whether you’d prefer to ease off on the PL once it’s won and go for CL double or do you think you can win both and go undefeated in the PL?


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 19, 2020)

The dickheads have started, It must be all over 🤣🤣


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Shit... was I on the box?
		
Click to expand...

Na, but Pete was! *

*wearing a blue hat...


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 19, 2020)

Has there been a mention of de gea letting a back pass in? #gone


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 19, 2020)

Re the


davemc1 said:



			Has there been a mention of de gea letting a back pass in? #gone
		
Click to expand...

Just seen he’s on 300k! He’s there to stay 😃😆


----------



## brendy (Jan 20, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Do you honestly think anyone listens to your tripe on here? Seriously, do you?

You say 99 things out of 100 against us, so your opinion is neither valued or sought, you dont bring nothing to the table, unless you want to weigh something in bile. Your a keyboard warrior of the worst kind, never talking about neutral subjects, just us.

Frankly, your extremely boring.

Anyway now the dickhead is out of the way, how can VAR overturn the Firminho goal, and allow the Calvert Lewin one a few weeks ago, in which he did put his arm across the keepers face, yet didnt overturn it. They have overturned the onfield decision, as a "clear and obvious error" - why?
		
Click to expand...

Lets get our point cross with out reaching for the swear tin! For what it matters, De Gea made a balls of that and should either have punched it into Birkenhead or gathered it, had it been someone the size of michael Owen would it have been a foul? I though VVD did well to keep his body in order, De Gea made the most of it.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 20, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			The commentary said he (the ref) was the VAR ref who judged the Clavert Lewin incident ok.......
		
Click to expand...

Not surprised when it was Paul Tierney....



Liverbirdie said:



			Clearly hasnt got a clue what hes doing then. 

Click to expand...

At least he’s consistent, consistently shit but nevertheless.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Just seen it, pathetic decision.

*Burnley scored one against us last season were there player had 2 hands on Allisons shoulders and it was given.*

VVD has kept his eye on the ball all through the challenge.

I hope Klopp gets a refund on his VAR payments
		
Click to expand...

unfortunately we never had VAR to enhance the beautiful game 😖


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2020)

brendy said:



			Lets get our point cross with out reaching for the *swear tin! *For what it matters, De Gea made a balls of that and should either have punched it into Birkenhead or gathered it, had it been someone the size of michael Owen would it have been a foul? I though VVD did well to keep his body in order, De Gea made the most of it.
		
Click to expand...

Not the first time the queens language has been used to emphasise an opinion. 🤔😉😄


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2020)

Former Premier League referee Peter Walton says the VAR system got it wrong in disallowing *Liverpool* striker Roberto Firmino's goal against *Manchester United. *VAR chalked off the effort for a foul by Virgil van Dijk on keeper David de Gea in the build-up. (Times - subscription required)

glad that’s cleared things up 😖


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Former Premier League referee Peter Walton says the VAR system got it wrong in disallowing *Liverpool* striker Roberto Firmino's goal against *Manchester United. *VAR chalked off the effort for a foul by Virgil van Dijk on keeper David de Gea in the build-up. (Times - subscription required)

glad that’s cleared things up 😖
		
Click to expand...

It wasnt the VAR system who got it wrong, it was the inept ref in charge of the system. It's not just against us neither, all season it's happened.

I've said many times on here until the standard of referees  increase, we'll still see incorrect decisions being made. 

Give it one week but not the next.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It wasnt the VAR system who got it wrong, it was the inept ref in charge of the system. It's not just against us neither, all season it's happened.

I've said many times on here until the standard of referees  increase, we'll still see incorrect decisions being made.

Give it one week but not the next.
		
Click to expand...

Thing is though Stu, lets forget football for the moment and focus on referees a minute.

Billions is spent on football, transfers, coaching, youth football development, agents etc etc. How much of that TV money is spent on referees. How much of that money is spent on coaching referees at an early age. 
I watched young Bradley Tash at a friendly football tournament / game yesterday. I know the ref was a young Kid 16, but he was woeful. It was like he was making it up as he went along. There’s no way he has any level of reffing qualms and if he had then the coaching of him was woeful. 
refs have been encouraged over half way through the season to go and look at screens. How many have 😳. Ave said it before and I will say it again. Referees were getting it wrong before VAR and they are now running VAR. We keep saying we want consistency, the only consistency we get is inconsistency. I know part of the problem is some of the rules re attackers handball and offside etc. But the actual implementation of VAR run by the current crop of referees is killing the game.
Referees should now be a full time occupation, looking at some of the fossil refs running around the park, am sure there’s a physical standard,  but it’s not high enough.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 20, 2020)

Tashy theres only 1 man to blame  for this VAR mess and that's Mike  Riley.  The refs are using the VAR to his instructions. 

Refs are professional,fulltime,well paid,coached and looked after so it's hardly the part time painter turned  PL ref Craig Pawson etc 

We need a fresh supply of younger fitter refs to flush out and replace the crap we've currently got. 

But then again what does a match going divvy know about refereeing 😉


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 20, 2020)

I reckon it’s about time the Officials were given a break, they are up against 22 professionals who are at the top of their game, they have anywhere between 20-60 thousand people screaming at them, then add in the millions of experts at home and we want every decision correct.

There is not one person on here who hasn’t made a mistake in their job, they get one look in real time on the pitch and let’s be honest all 22 are also trying to con the Officials in their favour.

Talking about fitness standards and their ability has gone too far.

How about we try and see some of it from their perspective and how difficult their job is.

VAR is not the answer nor is it a stick that should be used to beat them with.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 20, 2020)

It’s not an advantage to have the ball drop to a fullback in his own box surrounded by the opposing strikers.
I think he didn’t think it was a foul until VAR said differently.
Did he blow the whistle before the ball hit the net?
any challenge on the keeper is going to be looked at ,but for me it was two players challenging with DDG having an advantage of using his hands and just fluffed it.
VVD is moving backwards to meet the ball but DDG is taking the ball at a different height so there is going to be contact, but if that’s a foul you can’t challenge a keeper anymore.


----------



## Slime (Jan 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Tashy theres only 1 man to blame  for this VAR mess and that's Mike  Riley.  The refs are using the VAR to his instructions.

Refs are professional,fulltime,well paid,coached and looked after so it's hardly the part time painter turned  PL ref Craig Pawson etc

*We need a fresh supply of younger fitter refs to flush out and replace the crap we've currently got.*

But then again what does a match going divvy know about refereeing 😉
		
Click to expand...

Do you seriously think that's ever going to happen with all the hammering ref's get from footy fans on just about every footy forum there is?
In fact, they are roundly mocked on just about any forum, TV footy show, social media, down the pub ........................ everywhere.
I certainly wouldn't want to be a ref.


----------



## Slime (Jan 20, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I reckon it’s about time the Officials were given a break, they are up against 22 professionals who are at the top of their game, they have anywhere between 20-60 thousand people screaming at them, then add in the millions of experts at home and we want every decision correct.

There is not one person on here who hasn’t made a mistake in their job, they get one look in real time on the pitch and let’s be honest all 22 are also trying to con the Officials in their favour.

Talking about fitness standards and their ability has gone too far.

*How about we try and see some of it from their perspective and how difficult their job is.*

VAR is not the answer nor is it a stick that should be used to beat them with.
		
Click to expand...

Most of the critics won't be able to do that as they have no perception of what it's like to be a ref in the professional game.
Yet they believe that they are all experts!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Thing is though Stu, lets forget football for the moment and focus on referees a minute.

Billions is spent on football, transfers, coaching, youth football development, agents etc etc. How much of that TV money is spent on referees. How much of that money is spent on coaching referees at an early age.
I watched young Bradley Tash at a friendly football tournament / game yesterday. I know the ref was a young Kid 16, but he was woeful. It was like he was making it up as he went along. There’s no way he has any level of reffing qualms and if he had then the coaching of him was woeful.
refs have been encouraged over half way through the season to go and look at screens. How many have 😳. Ave said it before and I will say it again. Referees were getting it wrong before VAR and they are now running VAR. We keep saying we want consistency, the only consistency we get is inconsistency. I know part of the problem is some of the rules re attackers handball and offside etc. But the actual implementation of VAR run by the current crop of referees is killing the game.
Referees should now be a full time occupation, looking at some of the fossil refs running around the park, am sure there’s a physical standard,  but it’s not high enough.
		
Click to expand...

The one thing the refs don’t have an issue with is the physical standard - they are all required to attain a certain standard and they have no issues in that respect - fossil refs ? Poor 



pauldj42 said:



			I reckon it’s about time the Officials were given a break, they are up against 22 professionals who are at the top of their game, they have anywhere between 20-60 thousand people screaming at them, then add in the millions of experts at home and we want every decision correct.

There is not one person on here who hasn’t made a mistake in their job, they get one look in real time on the pitch and let’s be honest all 22 are also trying to con the Officials in their favour.

Talking about fitness standards and their ability has gone too far.

How about we try and see some of it from their perspective and how difficult their job is.

VAR is not the answer nor is it a stick that should be used to beat them with.
		
Click to expand...

The only issue I have right now is the way they are using VAR - mistakes do happen on the pitch , they aren’t going to get everything right but with VAR the ref in the “cabin” has the same replays we see etc and should be able to get to the right decisions 

But - for me they are not getting it right , they should only overrule anything that is “clear and obvious “ and why the heck don’t they allow the on field ref to check the monitor - that’s how it works well everywhere else . Add that simple change into it and I suspect you would get a better VAR - but the issue is you have Mike Rilley in charge and he was the worst ref we have seen in decades


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 20, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The one thing the refs don’t have an issue with is the physical standard - they are all required to attain a certain standard and they have no issues in that respect - fossil refs ? Poor



The only issue I have right now is the way they are using VAR - mistakes do happen on the pitch , they aren’t going to get everything right but with VAR the ref in the “cabin” has the same replays we see etc and should be able to get to the right decisions

But - for me they are not getting it right , they should only overrule anything that is “clear and obvious “ and why the heck don’t they allow the on field ref to check the monitor - that’s how it works well everywhere else . Add that simple change into it and I suspect you would get a better VAR - but the issue is you have Mike Rilley in charge and he was the worst ref we have seen in decades
		
Click to expand...

Has there been a reason why the monitor is not used.
He could look at while VAR look and chat with them about it.
It seems they don’t want to.
A Watford lad got red after looking on the monitor so I can’t understand Why refs don’t use it.


----------



## sam85 (Jan 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Thing is though Stu, lets forget football for the moment and focus on referees a minute.

Billions is spent on football, transfers, coaching, youth football development, agents etc etc. How much of that TV money is spent on referees. How much of that money is spent on coaching referees at an early age.
*I watched young Bradley Tash at a friendly football tournament / game yesterday. I know the ref was a young Kid 16, but he was woeful. It was like he was making it up as he went along. There’s no way he has any level of reffing qualms and if he had then the coaching of him was woeful.*
refs have been encouraged over half way through the season to go and look at screens. How many have 😳. Ave said it before and I will say it again. Referees were getting it wrong before VAR and they are now running VAR. We keep saying we want consistency, the only consistency we get is inconsistency. I know part of the problem is some of the rules re attackers handball and offside etc. But the actual implementation of VAR run by the current crop of referees is killing the game.
Referees should now be a full time occupation, looking at some of the fossil refs running around the park, am sure there’s a physical standard,  but it’s not high enough.
		
Click to expand...

I'm gonna assume "young Bradley Tash" is a child.  A kids friendly tournament/game has to be right at the lowest level of football and so I would expect to see a low level referee, for example a 16 year old referee possibly just starting out.  Where else do you suggest these young referees learn?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 20, 2020)

Tbf, I purposely didn’t bring VAR in to it until the end as I totally agree that is causing a lot of this season’s issues.

I think some saw it as the answer, were it’s actually created more questions.

Even yesterday’s decision wasn’t agreed on by 3 ex-professionals with the benefit of 10+ replays.

Maybe it’s time to look at both the laws of the game and VAR.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 20, 2020)

Slime said:



			Do you seriously think that's ever going to happen with all the hammering ref's get from footy fans on just about every footy forum there is?
In fact, they are roundly mocked on just about any forum, TV footy show, social media, down the pub ........................ everywhere.
I certainly wouldn't want to be a ref.
		
Click to expand...

It wont happen but it's something I'd like to see to try and improve the standard of refs. Otherwise whats the alternative?  Carry on with with the same??

I've said before that the media ,sky in particular, could improve the way they over analyse every contentious decision with its 24 different angles slowed down to 5ms and highlighted to prove tthere was contact. 

Refs will always take criticism it's impossible to get rival fans to agree on decisions that go for and against their team.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2020)

sam85 said:



			I'm gonna assume "young Bradley Tash" is a child.  A kids friendly tournament/game has to be right at the lowest level of football and so I would expect to see a low level referee, for example a 16 year old referee possibly just starting out.  Where else do you suggest these young referees learn?
		
Click to expand...

the level of the ref was a 6 yr old not a 16 yr old. Not one word spoken to the children. I think his whistle was broke. Inability to convey to kids if it is a corner or throw in. Not one word was said to the ref from any parent.   But  if kids want to get into being a referee they need to be coached and coached well. Not turning up in any old gear and playing on your phone at half time. All those saying refs should be given some slack. Am not sorry but they have been rammel all season and for god knows how long before this season. If all refs were to a standard that Collina was, we would not be in this mess.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			the level of the ref was a 6 yr old not a 16 yr old. Not one word spoken to the children. I think his whistle was broke. Inability to convey to kids if it is a corner or throw in. Not one word was said to the ref from any parent.   But  if kids want to get into being a referee they need to be coached and coached well. Not turning up in any old gear and playing on your phone at half time. All those saying refs should be given some slack. Am not sorry but they have been rammel all season and for god knows how long before this season. If all refs were to a standard that Collina was, we would not be in this mess.
		
Click to expand...

Ability and knowledge isn’t linked to fitness!

Did you ask if the guy was qualified or just some lad willing to help out? It’s 16 year old’s we need to get in to officiating, once he’s attended his first course he will be assessed and given feedback, did you know everything as a 16yr old?

How many players are “rammel” in your opinion that keep playing week after week?

Of course the standard needs improving, it’s just we highlight 1 or 2 decisions over 2 minutes out of 90+, they get far more correct than they ever get wrong.

As for Collina, he made his fair share of mistakes as well.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Ability and knowledge isn’t linked to fitness!

Did you ask if the guy was qualified or just some lad willing to help out? It’s 16 year old’s we need to get in to officiating, once he’s attended his first course he will be assessed and given feedback, did you know everything as a 16yr old?

How many players are “rammel” in your opinion that keep playing week after week?

Of course the standard needs improving, it’s just we highlight 1 or 2 decisions over 2 minutes out of 90+, they get far more correct than they ever get wrong.
		
Click to expand...

rammel players, there’s a few at City at the moment, plus a few others that have been to the Etihad. The thing is Paul, I was involved in children’s football for 10 years and got certain FA coaching badges. The youth league I was affiliated to had close  links with the Notts FA refs. They were very good. The coaching of the young refs was very good. The only problem at youth football was parents. Dads watching Sky and being Alex Ferguson for an hour. The lad had a referees badge on his chest so would imagine he has done some coaching. I think the reason he got no slack is because he was about 16. If he had a mentor watching that he was going to get a lot of feedback.


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 20, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Ability and knowledge isn’t linked to fitness!

Did you ask if the guy was qualified or just some lad willing to help out? It’s 16 year old’s we need to get in to officiating, once he’s attended his first course he will be assessed and given feedback, did you know everything as a 16yr old?

How many players are “rammel” in your opinion that keep playing week after week?

Of course the standard needs improving, it’s just we highlight 1 or 2 decisions over 2 minutes out of 90+, they get far more correct than they ever get wrong.

As for Collina, he made his fair share of mistakes as well.
		
Click to expand...


Collina wasn’t so highly regarded in Italy as he was across Europe. There are those who still feel he played his part in the Calciopoli scandal.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			rammel players, there’s a few at City at the moment, plus a few others that have been to the Etihad. The thing is Paul, I was involved in children’s football for 10 years and got certain FA coaching badges. The youth league I was affiliated to had close  links with the Notts FA refs. They were very good. The coaching of the young refs was very good. The only problem at youth football was parents. Dads watching Sky and being Alex Ferguson for an hour. The lad had a referees badge on his chest so would imagine he has done some coaching. I think the reason he got no slack is because he was about 16. If he had a mentor watching that he was going to get a lot of feedback.
		
Click to expand...

You’re comparing him to a PL Ref! What chance does anyone interested in becoming a Ref have if this is the way they are looked at.

If it’s a sanctioned match by the local FA, the managers will of been asked to assess the Ref, if he’s no good he’ll go no further, if he needs help he’ll get it.

I was a Ref in the Forces for nearly 5 years, try officiating a match with club linesman who were normally the worst player from each team or some spectator suddenly asked to hold a flag, 99 times out of 100 you’d ask them to give ball in and out of play only, you’d explain that to the Captains, then you’d get these people flagging for fouls, offsides etc and then you’d get abuse from the teams for ignoring the linesman!


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You’re comparing him to a PL Ref! What chance does anyone interested in becoming a Ref have if this is the way they are looked at.

If it’s a sanctioned match by the local FA, the managers will of been asked to assess the Ref, if he’s no good he’ll go no further, if he needs help he’ll get it.

I was a Ref in the Forces for nearly 5 years, try officiating a match with club linesman who were normally the worst player from each team or some spectator suddenly asked to hold a flag, 99 times out of 100 you’d ask them to give ball in and out of play only, you’d explain that to the Captains, then you’d get these people flagging for fouls, offsides etc and then you’d get abuse from the teams for ignoring the linesman!
		
Click to expand...

I am not comparing him to anyone, and I will say it again, I am not comparing him to anyone. The only assumption made is that if it is sanctioned by the local FA. It is a private run tournament that runs every Sunday, which the FA knows about  Ut has no input on the day. Money made goes to the private company. If you go back to my original post, I was pushing for support of young uns being encouraged to referee in the same way money goes into football coaching. Yesterday was a classic example of someone who wants to referee but is not being pointed in the right direction.


----------



## sam85 (Jan 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I am not comparing him to anyone, and I will say it again, I am not comparing him to anyone. The only assumption made is that if it is sanctioned by the local FA. It is a private run tournament that runs every Sunday, which the FA knows about  Ut has no input on the day. Money made goes to the private company. If you go back to my original post, I was pushing for support of young uns being encouraged to referee in the same way money goes into football coaching. Yesterday was a classic example of someone who wants to referee but is not being pointed in the right direction.
		
Click to expand...

You'll get a standard of referee relative to the level of football you're at, a "woeful" young 16 year old just starting out is going to have to start at the very bottom refereeing a "woeful" standard of football.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 20, 2020)

My concern is the technology is there on the touch line to help them .
But they seem very hesitant to use it.
When a VAR is in discussion in Shockley why don’t they just go and have a look.
It will either confirm or not what he saw or what VAR is saying, he can make his own mind up then.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2020)

sam85 said:



			You'll get a standard of referee relative to the level of football you're at, a "woeful" young 16 year old just starting out is going to have to start at the very bottom refereeing a "woeful" standard of football.
		
Click to expand...

 Cheeky sod, the mighty Mansfield Town under 7,s play at that comp. 😁


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			My concern is the technology is there on the touch line to help them .
But they seem very hesitant to use it.
When a VAR is in discussion in Shockley why don’t they just go and have a look.
It will either confirm or not what he saw or what VAR is saying, he can make his own mind up then.
		
Click to expand...

That’s just it though CC, the VVD challenge for the ball on De Gea. We have argued all day on here about that. Ref goes and has a look pitchside, he is in charge and says it either stands or it does not. Why should someone 130 miles away be involved in that.
Same as the challenge on Saha when he wanted a penalty, go to the screen. End of.


----------



## User62651 (Jan 20, 2020)

2 points for a view -

Harry Maguire - watched the Liv/ManU game and I still don't rate him that highly myself, solid premier league quality but a throwback to centre halfs of yesteryear for me, decent in the air but too slow and not enough of a ball player for the modern game at the very top level. Nemanja Vidic/Rio Ferdinand he is not. Notice Leicester doing much better without him.

Raheem Sterling - a much improved player but do you think he ever regrets leaving Liverpool given where they are now under Klopp? About to become England's biggest wealthiest club, as well as League Champions again finally? Appreciate he's won a lot domestically at City but it must cross his mind. I think LIverpool are getting to the point of becoming a pinnacle club in Europe i.e. they won't lose their very best players anymore to Barca/Bayern etc.


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 20, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			2 points for a view -

Harry Maguire - watched the Liv/ManU game and I still don't rate him that highly myself, solid premier league quality but a throwback to centre halfs of yesteryear for me, decent in the air but too slow and not enough of a ball player for the modern game at the very top level. Nemanja Vidic/Rio Ferdinand he is not. Notice Leicester doing much better without him.

Raheem Sterling - a much improved player but do you think he ever regrets leaving Liverpool given where they are now under Klopp? About to become England's biggest wealthiest club, as well as League Champions again finally? Appreciate he's won a lot domestically at City but it must cross his mind. I think LIverpool are getting to the point of becoming a pinnacle club in Europe i.e. they won't lose their very best players anymore to Barca/Bayern etc.
		
Click to expand...

Why would he regret leaving Liverpool for City when he's already won two league titles before they've won one? And he's been handsomely paid of course. I doubt he has any regrets at all.


----------



## sam85 (Jan 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Cheeky sod, the mighty Mansfield Town under 7,s play at that comp. 😁
		
Click to expand...

I rest my case........


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Thing is though Stu, lets forget football for the moment and focus on referees a minute.

Billions is spent on football, transfers, coaching, youth football development, agents etc etc. How much of that TV money is spent on referees. How much of that money is spent on coaching referees at an early age.
I watched young Bradley Tash at a friendly football tournament / game yesterday. I know the ref was a young Kid 16, but he was woeful. It was like he was making it up as he went along. There’s no way he has any level of reffing qualms and if he had then the coaching of him was woeful.
refs have been encouraged over half way through the season to go and look at screens. How many have 😳. Ave said it before and I will say it again. Referees were getting it wrong before VAR and they are now running VAR. We keep saying we want consistency, the only consistency we get is inconsistency. I know part of the problem is some of the rules re attackers handball and offside etc. But the actual implementation of VAR run by the current crop of referees is killing the game.
Referees should now be a full time occupation, looking at some of the fossil refs running around the park, am sure there’s a physical standard,  but it’s not high enough.
		
Click to expand...




Tashyboy said:



			I am not comparing him to anyone, and I will say it again, I am not comparing him to anyone. The only assumption made is that if it is sanctioned by the local FA. It is a private run tournament that runs every Sunday, which the FA knows about  Ut has no input on the day. Money made goes to the private company. If you go back to my original post, I was pushing for support of young uns being encouraged to referee in the same way money goes into football coaching. Yesterday was a classic example of someone who wants to referee but is not being pointed in the right direction.
		
Click to expand...

Tash me man, look at your original post I replied to, you went from PL Referees to the “woeful” kid yesterday, who you doubted had any quals, back to the PL Refs using pitchside monitors and standard of fitness.

Then when I asked questions you said he had a badge so you presumed he was qualified, but it turns out it’s a private league with no input on the day with the FA.

Why if it’s private should the FA care about pointing anyone in the right direction, the private league should be employing suitably qualified officials.


----------



## Swingalot (Jan 20, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Still having nightmares
		
Click to expand...

We are having sweet dreams in SE25 about the man himself, a true South London genius!


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Tash me man, look at your original post I replied to, you went from PL Referees to the “woeful” kid yesterday, who you doubted had any quals, back to the PL Refs using pitchside monitors and standard of fitness.

Then when I asked questions you said he had a badge so you presumed he was qualified, but it turns out it’s a private league with no input on the day with the FA.

Why if it’s private should the FA care about pointing anyone in the right direction, the private league should be employing suitably qualified officials.
		
Click to expand...


*How much of that money is spent on coaching referees at an early age.*

That sentence from my original post is one of my points. The kid has a “ referees badge”. He is being paid to referee. But more Importantly, the kids pay to play in the comp. should they expect substandard referees. That 16 yr old in five or six years time will be coaching the same kids who will be giving him lip, but not as much as the parents god forbid. His referees coaching at this early age should be to a better standard than it was/ is. No one is convincing me that a 16 yr old who wants to referee should not be able to talk to 6 and 7 yr olds.


----------



## User62651 (Jan 20, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Why would he regret leaving Liverpool for City when he's already won two league titles before they've won one? And he's been handsomely paid of course. I doubt he has any regrets at all.
		
Click to expand...

Bit like saying you'd rather play for Blackburn Rovers rather than Manchester United back in early 90s because they won the league. Man City are an oil sheik's plaything, like PSG. Liverpool are 6 times European Champions - heritage and legend...you know what I mean.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 20, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			2 points for a view -

Harry Maguire - watched the Liv/ManU game and I still don't rate him that highly myself, solid premier league quality but a throwback to centre halfs of yesteryear for me, decent in the air but too slow and not enough of a ball player for the modern game at the very top level. Nemanja Vidic/Rio Ferdinand he is not. Notice Leicester doing much better without him.

Raheem Sterling - a much improved player but do you think he ever regrets leaving Liverpool given where they are now under Klopp? About to become England's biggest wealthiest club, as well as League Champions again finally? Appreciate he's won a lot domestically at City but it must cross his mind. I think LIverpool are getting to the point of becoming a pinnacle club in Europe i.e. they won't lose their very best players anymore to Barca/Bayern etc.
		
Click to expand...

I still don’t see Maguire being anything better than a mid table Cb - he was turned inside and out yesterday a number of times , Leicester must be laughing getting £80mil for him - Gomez is far better and would like to see what he is like alongside Dunk or Tarkoswki , Maguire got a lot of hype from the World Cup - Lindelof looked better

As for Sterling - I’m sure he doesn’t regret it at all and we and him have moved on - I know I would take both Mane and Salah over him but Sterling has certainly stepped up since leaving - but I don’t think City will ever be seen in the same light as teams like Liverpool ,UTD , Madrid , Barce etc 

I don’t think we will lose our best players but it’s not always about where you are in the game - any South American player grows up idolising Real Madrid and Barce so players do look to move there - thankfully at the moment I can’t see any of our players wanting to move on and can see players wanting to arrive. It’s a good time at the moment but we need to build on it


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



*How much of that money is spent on coaching referees at an early age.*

That sentence from my original post is one of my points. The kid has a “ referees badge”. He is being paid to referee. But more Importantly, the kids pay to play in the comp. should they expect substandard referees. That 16 yr old in five or six years time will be coaching the same kids who will be giving him lip, but not as much as the parents god forbid. His referees coaching at this early age should be to a better standard than it was/ is. No one is convincing me that a 16 yr old who wants to referee should not be able to talk to 6 and 7 yr olds.
		
Click to expand...

Your original post also questioned his qualifications and no mention of it being a private league or him wearing a badge, that info came later.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			2 points for a view -

Harry Maguire - watched the Liv/ManU game and I still don't rate him that highly myself, solid premier league quality but a throwback to centre halfs of yesteryear for me, decent in the air but too slow and not enough of a ball player for the modern game at the very top level. Nemanja Vidic/Rio Ferdinand he is not. Notice Leicester doing much better without him.

Raheem Sterling - a much improved player but do you think he ever regrets leaving Liverpool given where they are now under Klopp? About to become England's biggest wealthiest club, as well as League Champions again finally? Appreciate he's won a lot domestically at City but it must cross his mind. I think LIverpool are getting to the point of becoming a pinnacle club in Europe i.e. they won't lose their very best players anymore to Barca/Bayern etc.
		
Click to expand...

Maguire, when he played for Leicester last year v City I was very impressed with him. Deffo an old school,centre half in the Richard Dunne mould 😖. But he is comfortable on the ball. Having said that, he looks like he has gone backwards.

Re Sterling, don’t think for one minute he regrets leaving. Brendon Rodgers hit the nail on the head when he said Sterling wants to win trophies, it didn’t look like he could at Liverpool at that time. The teams he has played in have played some of the best football this country has seen. ( until this season). Ironically a season where he has been poor. Truth be told. If Sterling had stayed at Liverpool. He wouldn’t be in front of Mane, Bobby or Mo. I think your comments re Sterling, the same could be said of Coutinho. Does he regret leaving. What the sale of Sterling and Firmino has done is given Liverpool some serious brass and enabled them to buy players they desperately needed in VVD and Allison. The rest they say is history. What was forgotten at the time of sterling going to City was Milner going to Liverpool. Did he ever regret going to Liverpool for X years and seeing his ex blues win a number of trophies. Me finks not.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Your original post also questioned his qualifications and no mention of it being a private league or him wearing a badge, that info came later.
		
Click to expand...

I didn’t see it as that important in a sense that the comp was run by a a private company. It is known to the Notts FA and is played under normal FA rules. The thing is though now Paul, when I was involved in football 20 yrs ago, the only non club, schools football was when they had summer camps for football. Young Bradley Tash now goes to “ mini kicks”. Again it is a private company that teaches football. The lads are about 18-20 yrs old. Are qualified and are excellent. It is a joy to watch them being coached in a correct manner. That excellent private football coaching standard is what young referees should be taught.
Cootball is a business not only at the Top/ prem level down. But from grass roots up. It seems to me that referee standards are being left behind. It seems it is almost a secondary thought.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			Bit like saying you'd rather play for Blackburn Rovers rather than Manchester United back in early 90s because they won the league. Man City are an oil sheik's plaything, like PSG. Liverpool are 6 times European Champions - heritage and legend...you know what I mean.
		
Click to expand...

We’re making history,  of living on it 😁😉


----------



## 4LEX (Jan 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Maguire, when he played for Leicester last year v City I was very impressed with him. Deffo an old school,centre half in the Richard Dunne mould 😖. But he is comfortable on the ball. Having said that, he looks like he has gone backwards.
		
Click to expand...

Maguire is class. He just has no protection from the midfield at the moment and he's either got a fat waddler like Shaw or an inexperienced kid on his side at left back. He's also playing with an injury and has been for months. He signed for vastly inflated fee, joined the biggest club in the country who are struggling and finds himself captain after half a season. It's not like he's slotted into a well oiled machine. He'll get better and better and be a good investment over the next 5 years IMO.


----------



## User62651 (Jan 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			We’re making history,  of living on it 😁😉
		
Click to expand...

Seems Vincent Kompany's leadership really has been missed both on and off the pitch, something isn't clicking this season although on their day are still unstoppable.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			Seems Vincent Kompany's leadership really has been missed both on and off the pitch, something isn't clicking this season although on their day are still unstoppable.
		
Click to expand...

Massively missed Laporte. He is City’s VVD, everyone looks better at the side of him inc Stones and “ oops am on me arse again Otamendi”. Felt sorry for him as he has struggled to get in the French squad, got called up then knackered his knee. 
Slowly slowly, Laporte is getting back to fitness and Sane, whose pace has been sorely missed.If we can get a fully fit squad, the champs league is a possibility. Massive IFs though.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Maguire, when he played for Leicester last year v City I was very impressed with him. Deffo an old school,centre half in the Richard Dunne mould 😖. But he is comfortable on the ball. Having said that, he looks like he has gone backwards.

Re Sterling, don’t think for one minute he regrets leaving. Brendon Rodgers hit the nail on the head when he said Sterling wants to win trophies, it didn’t look like he could at Liverpool at that time. The teams he has played in have played some of the best football this country has seen. ( until this season). Ironically a season where he has been poor. Truth be told. If Sterling had stayed at Liverpool. He wouldn’t be in front of Mane, Bobby or Mo. I think your comments re Sterling, *the same could be said of Coutinho. Does he regret leaving. *What the sale of Sterling and Firmino has done is given Liverpool some serious brass and enabled them to buy players they desperately needed in VVD and Allison. The rest they say is history. What was forgotten at the time of sterling going to City was Milner going to Liverpool. Did he ever regret going to Liverpool for X years and seeing his ex blues win a number of trophies. Me finks not.
		
Click to expand...

Believe he regrets it every day when he sees what has happened since he left 

Don’t think Sterling regrets anything just as Milner prob doesn’t regret leaving City 

It all depends on the mentality of the player and why they go to clubs - Sanchez for example I suspect regretted leaving Arsenal for UTD


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 20, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			Bit like saying you'd rather play for Blackburn Rovers rather than Manchester United back in early 90s because they won the league. Man City are an oil sheik's plaything, like PSG. Liverpool are 6 times European Champions - heritage and legend...you know what I mean.
		
Click to expand...

I really don't think footballers in their 20s care about stuff like that. They care about competing at the highest level, not really who for as long as they are up there and paying them the big bucks. Not to mention the fact that he's improved immeasurably playing under Pep Guardiola, and I'm sure he wouldn't trade a second of that time spent under his guidance.


----------



## 4LEX (Jan 20, 2020)

Liverpool weren't at their best but clearly the better side in every area. Some bad decisions and poor finishing on their part or it could've been embarrassing. They seemed happy to shut the game out at 1-0 but Man Utd battled away and looked better as the game wore on, although it was passion and nothing to do with quality or tactics. That said Rashford plays and it's a point as he doesn't do a statue impression like Martial or miss the target from 8 yards.

The injury to Rashford has essentially killed Man Utd's season. He's been playing through pain for the club and winning POTM awards, scoring, creating and now it's has caught up on Ole. As an England fan it's awful news. Ole is playing Maguire injured too and has messed up Rashford purely to save his own job.

The ineptness of it all beggars belief. Selling a genuine 25 goal a season striker and failing to replace him. A young striker then emerges and you can get him for £20m even with a clause but you refuse to bury your pride and he goes elsewhere. You then risk the only world class player in the side for a nothing cup game, even though he's injured and surprise surprise - he gets further injured and is out for months 

Throw in the mess of the Fernandes deal. Man Utd are desperate and it's a sellers market in January yet they won't pay the going rate and insert laughable clauses like winning the title or the CL to make the fee up. Now it's full on panic stations and every selling club will hike the price up for any decent striker and Sporting will hold fast on Fernandes. The club is better off writing the season off, lining up Poch and working on signing the players he wants for the summer.

I've said it before but this is the level Man Utd are at because of Woodward. He's failed every manager and has appointed a glorified PE teacher who won't disagree with him. The fans are absolute mugs for not hounding him out of the club. Liverpool fans got under the skin of the previous owners and made things uncomfortable enough they couldn't attend games and the same thing needs to happen to Woodward. He's wrecking the club from the inside and laughing at you with his multi million salary.

You look at Liverpool and it's a world apart. The manager is world class, no nonsense and has various ways of playing. There's no flakes like Martial, Shaw or Pogba in their side, they've got a work ethic. The make signings when in a position of strength and with long term planning in mind. They deserve their success because they've turned things around from the car crash Dalglish and Hodgeson era the right way.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Liverpool weren't at their best but clearly the better side in every area. Some bad decisions and poor finishing on their part or it could've been embarrassing. They seemed happy to shut the game out at 1-0 but Man Utd battled away and looked better as the game wore on, although it was passion and nothing to do with quality or tactics. That said Rashford plays and it's a point as he doesn't do a statue impression like Martial or miss the target from 8 yards.

The injury to Rashford has essentially killed Man Utd's season. He's been playing through pain for the club and winning POTM awards, scoring, creating and now it's has caught up on Ole. As an England fan it's awful news. Ole is playing Maguire injured too and has messed up Rashford purely to save his own job.

The ineptness of it all beggars belief. Selling a genuine 25 goal a season striker and failing to replace him. A young striker then emerges and you can get him for £20m even with a clause but you refuse to bury your pride and he goes elsewhere. You then risk the only world class player in the side for a nothing cup game, even though he's injured and surprise surprise - he gets further injured and is out for months 

Throw in the mess of the Fernandes deal. Man Utd are desperate and it's a sellers market in January yet they won't pay the going rate and insert laughable clauses like winning the title or the CL to make the fee up. Now it's full on panic stations and every selling club will hike the price up for any decent striker and Sporting will hold fast on Fernandes. The club is better off writing the season off, lining up Poch and working on signing the players he wants for the summer.

*I've said it before but this is the level Man Utd are at because of Woodward. *He's failed every manager and has appointed a glorified PE teacher who won't disagree with him. The fans are absolute mugs for not hounding him out of the club. Liverpool fans got under the skin of the previous owners and made things uncomfortable enough they couldn't attend games and the same thing needs to happen to Woodward. He's wrecking the club from the inside and laughing at you with his multi million salary.

You look at Liverpool and it's a world apart. The manager is world class, no nonsense and has various ways of playing. There's no flakes like Martial, Shaw or Pogba in their side, they've got a work ethic. The make signings when in a position of strength and with long term planning in mind. They deserve their success because they've turned things around from the car crash Dalglish and Hodgeson era the right way.
		
Click to expand...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51178288

seems Gary Neville agrees with you and a few others inc me.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 20, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Liverpool weren't at their best but clearly the better side in every area. Some bad decisions and poor finishing on their part or it could've been embarrassing. They seemed happy to shut the game out at 1-0 but Man Utd battled away and looked better as the game wore on, although it was passion and nothing to do with quality or tactics. That said Rashford plays and it's a point as he doesn't do a statue impression like Martial or miss the target from 8 yards.

The injury to Rashford has essentially killed Man Utd's season. He's been playing through pain for the club and winning POTM awards, scoring, creating and now it's has caught up on Ole. As an England fan it's awful news. Ole is playing Maguire injured too and has messed up Rashford purely to save his own job.

The ineptness of it all beggars belief. Selling a genuine 25 goal a season striker and failing to replace him. A young striker then emerges and you can get him for £20m even with a clause but you refuse to bury your pride and he goes elsewhere. You then risk the only world class player in the side for a nothing cup game, even though he's injured and surprise surprise - he gets further injured and is out for months 

Throw in the mess of the Fernandes deal. Man Utd are desperate and it's a sellers market in January yet they won't pay the going rate and insert laughable clauses like winning the title or the CL to make the fee up. Now it's full on panic stations and every selling club will hike the price up for any decent striker and Sporting will hold fast on Fernandes. The club is better off writing the season off, lining up Poch and working on signing the players he wants for the summer.

I've said it before but this is the level Man Utd are at because of Woodward. He's failed every manager and has appointed a glorified PE teacher who won't disagree with him. The fans are absolute mugs for not hounding him out of the club. Liverpool fans got under the skin of the previous owners and made things uncomfortable enough they couldn't attend games and the same thing needs to happen to Woodward. He's wrecking the club from the inside and laughing at you with his multi million salary.

You look at Liverpool and it's a world apart. The manager is world class, no nonsense and has various ways of playing. There's no flakes like Martial, Shaw or Pogba in their side, they've got a work ethic. The make signings when in a position of strength and with long term planning in mind. They deserve their success because they've turned things around from the car crash Dalglish and Hodgeson era the right way.
		
Click to expand...

See you in a week with all the others that have been swearing there’s absolutely no need for it on this forum.
If people can’t handle it then take a break


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 20, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			Seems Vincent Kompany's leadership really has been missed both on and off the pitch, something isn't clicking this season although on their day are still unstoppable.
		
Click to expand...

Kompany was missing more than he played towards the end.
As Tash said if you lose Laporte and replace him with Otamendi you will struggle.
It shows the squad depth is not there.
It’s hard to replace quality.

I think what’s missing is the Adrenalin rush as they are to far behind and know they are not competing .
It’s like playing a few holes in after your knockout is over imo.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 20, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			Seems Vincent Kompany's leadership really has been missed both on and off the pitch, something isn't clicking this season although on their day are still unstoppable.
		
Click to expand...

Gross mismanagement from Pep for signing Rodri over Kompany‘s replacement.

Then playing Fernandinho over both Stones and Otamendi, it’s been a complete balls up.

I can’t  see a role for both Stones and Otamendi in that city side, both are finished.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Gross mismanagement from Pep for signing Rodri over Kompany‘s replacement.

Then playing Fernandinho over both Stones and Otamendi, it’s been a complete balls up.

I can’t  see a role for both Stones and Otamendi in that city side, both are finished.
		
Click to expand...

If only Pep had the stones to drop them........


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Kompany was missing more than he played towards the end.
As Tash said if you lose Laporte and replace him with Otamendi you will struggle.
It shows the squad depth is not there.
It’s hard to replace quality.

I think what’s missing is the Adrenalin rush as they are to far behind and know they are not competing .
It’s like playing a few holes in after your knockout is over imo.
		
Click to expand...

I just have this gut feeling that Pep knew before December it was all over and he is playing for the cups. Plus he is playing a game of look directors, this is what we need. Up front and midfield I would not swop anything, but defensively. It’s paper thin. RB is ok, and on its day Laporte and Stones is ok.  Ut mendy and Zinchenko. Mendy is social media stupid, he needs to focus on his game. Kompany just being there like VVD. They are one in a million.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I just have this gut feeling that Pep knew before December it was all over and he is playing for the cups. *Plus he is playing a game of look directors, this is what we need.* Up front and midfield I would not swop anything, but defensively. It’s paper thin. RB is ok, and on its day Laporte and Stones is ok.  Ut mendy and Zinchenko. Mendy is social media stupid, he needs to focus on his game. Kompany just being there like VVD. They are one in a million.
		
Click to expand...

why directors ? They spent £150 mil in the summer and surely that was on players the manager wanted ? 

Paper thin defence ? 3 left backs , 2 right backs , 4 Cb’s ( one a youngster )


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 20, 2020)

That'll screw up his no claims bonus https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51179661


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 20, 2020)

And an interesting read as well https://www.skysports.com/football/...retirement-with-jamie-redknapp-and-alan-smith


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Gross mismanagement from Pep for signing Rodri over Kompany‘s replacement.

Then playing Fernandinho over both Stones and Otamendi, it’s been a complete balls up.

I can’t  see a role for both Stones and Otamendi in that city side, both are finished.
		
Click to expand...

but it’s not, Rodri has been a brilliant replacement for an aging Dinho, replacing Kompany was a Big problem.  Ut City have got to a stage where they will not over pay. Am convinced we could of had Maguire or VVD if we had paid another £10 million but city said no.


----------



## Dando (Jan 20, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			That'll screw up his no claims bonus https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51179661

Click to expand...

It’ll T cut out


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			but it’s not, Rodri has been a brilliant replacement for an aging Dinho, replacing Kompany was a Big problem.  Ut City have got to a stage where they will not over pay.* Am convinced we could of had Maguire or VVD if we had paid another £10 million but city said no.*

Click to expand...

Maguire yes - but you could have got him for less than UTD did if you went in at the beginning of the summer 

But no - firmly believe that VVD had his heart set on Liverpool and that was the only place he was going


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 20, 2020)

Dando said:



			It’ll T cut out
		
Click to expand...

Looks like something out of one of those annoying Go Compare adverts


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			but it’s not, Rodri has been a brilliant replacement for an aging Dinho, replacing Kompany was a Big problem.  Ut City have got to a stage where they will not over pay. Am convinced we could of had Maguire or VVD if we had paid another £10 million but city said no.
		
Click to expand...

ok, did you really need Rodri this summer? City knew from pretty much early Feb he was going surely there’s a CB out there whose an improvement on Otamendi and stones, that city could’ve signed. To blame (not you personally) this seasons results on  losing Laporte and sane is laughable.

Sane was reported to be on his way out of the club and yes Laporte is a top CB so obviously a big miss but in this day and age you’ve got to pay top dollar for the elite.

i understand city don’t wanna pay over the odds but when you need to replace a major player it can’t be done on the cheap.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			ok, did you really need Rodri this summer? City knew from pretty much early Feb he was going surely there’s a CB out there whose an improvement on Otamendi and stones, that city could’ve signed. To blame (not you personally) this seasons results on  losing Laporte and sane is laughable.

Sane was reported to be on his way out of the club and yes Laporte is a top CB so obviously a big miss but in this day and age you’ve got to pay top dollar for the elite.

i understand city don’t wanna pay over the odds but when you need to replace a major player it can’t be done on the cheap.
		
Click to expand...

I think at the time, Pep thought Laporte, Stones and Otamendi is enough. It went tits up when Laporte had a lengthy injury and Stones is the Harry Kane of defenders in getting injured. He has been in and out. Ironically Dinho has been our best fall back CH. Garcia is very good from the academy but is a yard short of pace.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 21, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I think at the time, Pep thought Laporte, Stones and Otamendi is enough. It went tits up when Laporte had a lengthy injury and Stones is the Harry Kane of defenders in getting injured. He has been in and out. Ironically Dinho has been our best fall back CH. Garcia is very good from the academy but is a yard short of pace.
		
Click to expand...

Its akin to when we never got VVD in the summer and waited but went into the season without another CB, luckily it wasnt too damaging but it couldve been avoided. That said if we had of signed someone else we may not have went back for VVD.

Hindsights a wonderful thing...😉


----------



## fundy (Jan 21, 2020)

Fernandinho getting away with 2 cynical fouls inside 10 mins without a card and keepers still allowed off their line for pens despite VAR, some things dont change lol


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 21, 2020)

Right in the jewels.


----------



## fundy (Jan 21, 2020)

Azpilicueta thinks hes the ref again i see


----------



## Fish (Jan 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			Azpilicueta thinks hes the ref again i see
		
Click to expand...

He’s the captain, he has the right to ask why it’s stopped when it’s not a head injury, thems the rules!


----------



## fundy (Jan 21, 2020)

Fish said:



			He’s the captain, he has the right to ask why it’s stopped when it’s not a head injury, thems the rules!
		
Click to expand...

shame he doesnt act like one rather than screaming in the refs face (as he did last time i watched  him and the time before)

backed him to be booked to get double joy when the ref gets his card out


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			Fernandinho getting away with 2 cynical fouls inside 10 mins without a card and keepers still allowed off their line for pens despite VAR, some things dont change lol
		
Click to expand...

Football is a joke atm
So far off his line


----------



## fundy (Jan 21, 2020)

Bellerin looks a long way short of match fitness!


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 21, 2020)

First Everton goal for Moise Kean. Delighted for the lad, has shown a real desire since the Ferguson incident, fair play to him. Hope that's the first of many.


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 21, 2020)

Mustafi. Again.


----------



## fundy (Jan 21, 2020)

sigh

think ill watch the rest of the city game lol


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 21, 2020)

A comedy twins double. Awesome.


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 21, 2020)

Mustafi shaking his head. Why? It's his fault, yet again.


----------



## fundy (Jan 21, 2020)

21 days into January and still not added any defenders to the squad. Would love to back even money we dont in the next 10 days either


----------



## Fish (Jan 21, 2020)

😂😂😂🤡


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 21, 2020)

DCL bags another


----------



## fundy (Jan 21, 2020)

why has he not got holding on for Ozil already?


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 21, 2020)

Why didn't Holding start instead of Mustafi. He might not be fully match fit, but at least he isn't an accident prone incompetent.


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 21, 2020)

Here you go. Holding coming on.


----------



## fundy (Jan 21, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Why didn't Holding start instead of Mustafi. He might not be fully match fit, but at least he isn't an accident prone incompetent.
		
Click to expand...

bellerins clearly not fit and assume neither is holding, leaves us with clowns, liabilities and kids lol


----------



## fundy (Jan 21, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Here you go. Holding coming on.
		
Click to expand...

should be ozil prob be martinelli


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 21, 2020)

Nice header from Xhaka. Not often you see a prone player make a headed tackle attempt.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 21, 2020)

So dominant this 2nd half, way better tonight than we have been recently. Could have been 4 or 5 without Dubravka.


----------



## fundy (Jan 21, 2020)

assume Tashy will be fine with City time wasting tonight


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 21, 2020)

Everton in meltdown in extra time.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 21, 2020)

Jesus christ. What is going on? How have we given up a 2 goal lead there? Pathetic defending. Should have closed the game off but fell asleep at the back again.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 21, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Jesus christ. What is going on? How have we given up a 2 goal lead there? Pathetic defending. Should have closed the game off but fell asleep at the back again.
		
Click to expand...

And I thought our weekend was bad!


----------



## fundy (Jan 21, 2020)

azpilicueta just immune lol, hows that not a booking?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 21, 2020)

Everton please never change 😂😂😂


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Everton please never change 😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Gift that keeps on giving - 😂😂😂😂 Twitter is hilarious at the moment , all that CL spot talk seems to have stopped


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 21, 2020)

So, no shots. None. Apart from that one.


----------



## fundy (Jan 21, 2020)

If chelsea are the 4th best side in this league, then bar the top 2 or 3 this is one awful league this year

Were utterly shocking and theyre struggling to put us away when we have 10 men!

Edit haha were level


----------



## Wolf (Jan 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			If *chelsea are the 4th best side in this league, then bar the top 2 or 3 this is one awful league this year*

Were utterly shocking and theyre struggling to put us away when we have 10 men!

Edit haha were level
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree the quality across the top half of the table with the obvious exception has been woeful all season.


----------



## fundy (Jan 21, 2020)

how is abraham not offside when clearly in the keepers eye line?


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 21, 2020)

Even I’m not that cruel to ask what times motd on? 

🤐


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 21, 2020)

No idea. It is just rubbish. Holding was distracted by him as well. 

But who cares now.


----------



## Fish (Jan 21, 2020)

So the ref has stopped play twice for Arsenal and ignores Tammy, no consistency at all!!


----------



## fundy (Jan 21, 2020)

still feel we lose this lol, get in Hector


----------



## fundy (Jan 21, 2020)

Fish said:



			So the ref has stopped play twice for Arsenal and ignores Tammy, no consistency at all!!
		
Click to expand...

lol your own players didnt even kick the ball out for his injury, must have been serious


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 21, 2020)

Not sure I can take much more of this.


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 21, 2020)

Happy with that.


----------



## fundy (Jan 21, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Happy with that.
		
Click to expand...

some character starting to show, now to add the needed quality (especially at the back)


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 21, 2020)

Ingurlands number 1 at it again 😊😊


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1219733042417356805


----------



## fundy (Jan 21, 2020)

Not a fan (understatement) but pretty sure Id be playing Xhaka at centre half for the rest of the season after tonights game, hes better than the other options and keeps him out of midfield!


----------



## paddyc (Jan 21, 2020)

Only saw the 2nd half but after going 1 down and with 10 men I thought we were dead and buried. We hadn't had a shot at goal till Gab scored. Hopefully this may change our season.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			Not a fan (understatement) but pretty sure Id be playing Xhaka at centre half for the rest of the season after tonights game, hes better than the other options and keeps him out of midfield!
		
Click to expand...

This the same Xhaka that’s a liability in CM and you wanna play him CB? 😂😂😂


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 21, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Even I’m not that cruel to ask what times motd on?

🤐
		
Click to expand...

 What day, do you mean?


----------



## fundy (Jan 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			This the same Xhaka that’s a liability in CM and you wanna play him CB? 😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

i wouldnt go as far as "want to play him" but based on our current options, yeah pretty much thinks its the best option currently, not saying a lot i know


----------



## fundy (Jan 21, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Only saw the 2nd half but after going 1 down and with 10 men I thought we were dead and buried. We hadn't had a shot at goal till Gab scored. Hopefully this may change our season.
		
Click to expand...


sadly it wont, we still dont have a fit defender who can actually defend, were lightweight in midfield and the players are still trying to understand what a new boss wants from them. there are some sprigs of hope in terms of attitude and structure but lets make no bones were 4 or 5 players at least away from being properly competitive and theyre not all turning up in the next 10 days, if anything we may we well get weaker if Aubam goes


----------



## adam6177 (Jan 22, 2020)

Rumours are all he has done is cut out the daily diving practice sessions that poch had installed and this has annoyed, Kane, son, Alli and lamela. 
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/10791761/jose-mourinho-unrest-tottenham-players/


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 22, 2020)

I didn’t watch the City game last night but I’m surprised Tash isn’t pointing out the blatant inconsistency that is making fans go mad.Sterling missed a penalty recently that got retaken because of encroachment,last night Jesus missed,not only was the keeper well off his line 2 SU players were in the box and should have been retaken.
These are basic decisions and so obvious.


----------



## TheDiablo (Jan 22, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			I didn’t watch the City game last night but I’m surprised Tash isn’t pointing out the blatant inconsistency that is making fans go mad.Sterling missed a penalty recently that got retaken because of encroachment,last night Jesus missed,not only was the keeper well off his line 2 SU players were in the box and should have been retaken.
These are basic decisions and so obvious.
		
Click to expand...

VAR doesn't check for goalie off the line. Anyway, he was on his line until Jesus stuttered, attackers shouldn't have it all their own way

Encroachment only applies if one of those defenders then clears the ball following the save, Or the attacker who encroaches scores the rebound


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 22, 2020)

TheDiablo said:



			VAR doesn't check for goalie off the line. Anyway, he was on his line until Jesus stuttered, attackers shouldn't have it all their own way

Encroachment only applies if one of those defenders then clears the ball following the save, Or the attacker who encroaches scores the rebound
		
Click to expand...

Let’s take your example then
Jesus misses the ball then is there for the rebound,the 2 defenders impede him getting to the ball but don’t touch it,Jesus can’t get a full contact because of the defenders and misses or the keeper saves it.
What happens


----------



## TheDiablo (Jan 22, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Let’s take your example then
Jesus misses the ball then is there for the rebound,the 2 defenders impede him getting to the ball but don’t touch it,Jesus can’t get a full contact because of the defenders and misses or the keeper saves it.
What happens
		
Click to expand...

Its not 'my example' - it's the rules 

To your point, if theyve impeded him but not got the ball that's a foul, so another penalty.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Very lack lustre display yesterday.

Serious question, Palace win the award for time wasting display of the season. *But it has happened a hell of a lot this season at the Etihad. *Am sure it’s a tactic like City’s professional fouls.  But does it go on as much during other games ie Palace v Norwich, I could reel off half a dozen other teams that have done it. But is time wasting rife in the whole of the Prem league. What was funny, the palace keeper took and eternity to take goal kicks. When City went 2-1 up Ederson took an eternity to take a goal kick. The crowd loved it, well til Palace scored that was. 😖😁
Thoughts from match goers please 😉
		
Click to expand...

Looking at last night if it’s happening at The Citys ground then the home team will be just as guilty of time wasting - certainly a lot of it last night from City


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 22, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			I didn’t watch the City game last night but I’m surprised Tash isn’t pointing out the blatant inconsistency that is making fans go mad.Sterling missed a penalty recently that got retaken because of encroachment,last night Jesus missed,not only was the keeper well off his line 2 SU players were in the box and should have been retaken.
These are basic decisions and so obvious.
		
Click to expand...

Just to clarify Tony:



Ignoring the Keeper for a minute, As you can see it’s not only the 2 Sheff Utd players encroaching, therefore most Ref’s tend to ignore that particular encroachment if it has no effect on the penalty.
If the penalty had gone in and only the City player encroached, he could order the penalty to be retaken.

Nowhere in the laws of the game does it say a defender must touch the ball or impact on the penalty taker to be classed as encroachment, or an attacker has to score the rebound, the law is clear.

http://www.thefa.com/football-rules...laws/football-11-11/law-14---the-penalty-kick

The table in the link, is quite clear:





This extract also does not mention a defender “touching the ball”

the goalkeeper or a team-mate infringes the Laws of the Game:

if the ball enters the goal, a goal is awarded
if the ball does not enter the goal, the kick is retaken; the goalkeeper is cautioned if responsible for the offence.


----------



## pendodave (Jan 22, 2020)

Looking at that pic, wtf is the lino doing? Compared to giving offsides (which despite the stick they get, they are pretty good at) the keeper movement is such an obvious and easy decision I can only think that they've had a directive not to give it. And 1 yard makes a big difference to the chances of a save.


----------



## paddyc (Jan 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			sadly it wont, we still dont have a fit defender who can actually defend, were lightweight in midfield and the players are still trying to understand what a new boss wants from them. there are some sprigs of hope in terms of attitude and structure but lets make no bones were 4 or 5 players at least away from being properly competitive and theyre not all turning up in the next 10 days, if anything we may we well get weaker if Aubam goes
		
Click to expand...

Your probably right mate on what I saw at the weekend. Got let off the hook by Chelsea.


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 22, 2020)

adam6177 said:



			Rumours are all he has done is cut out the daily diving practice sessions that poch had installed and this has annoyed, Kane, son, Alli and lamela.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/10791761/jose-mourinho-unrest-tottenham-players/

Click to expand...

If Poch's training session were so great maybe the players should have pulled their fingers out so he didn't get the sack. Only themselves to blame.


----------



## 4LEX (Jan 22, 2020)

Any City fans feel Jesus is another reason you're not hitting the heights of last season? He seems so wasteful and never really gets the goals when they matter. He racks up his 15 or so goals but most are against fodder in easy wins. When he has to come in and deliver it's usually the midfielders that step up, not him. Definitely an area City need to bolster especially with Aguero getting older.

Meanwhile Arteta carries on his great run.......1 win in 6 leagues games and the new manager bounce working wonders!


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 22, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Any City fans feel Jesus is another reason you're not hitting the heights of last season? He seems so wasteful and never really gets the goals when they matter. He racks up his 15 or so goals but most are against fodder in easy wins. When he has to come in and deliver it's usually the midfielders that step up, not him. Definitely an area City need to bolster especially with Aguero getting older.

Meanwhile Arteta carries on his great run.......1 win in 6 leagues games and the new manager bounce working wonders! 

Click to expand...

Jesus has the most shots on target per 90 mins of anyone with more than 6 league apps:
https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...erStatistics/England-Premier-League-2019-2020 
So he's not doing _that_ bad. He is only 22 still. In games that he's started he's scored 12 in 15. Perhaps one area for criticism though - he's been subbed on 11 times and not scored in any of those. So not much of an impact sub. Source: https://www.whoscored.com/Players/279379/Show/Gabriel-Jesus


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 22, 2020)

Am back in the room. Didn’t see any of the game last night, grandkids time.that aside Ave seen the penalty save and I only have one  question to ask. What was the linesman looking at, or not looking at. He don’t have to see if it has crossed the line. It emphasises why VAR was brought in because of mistakes like this. Now in this instance if City had scored. It would of gone to VAR, If not it don’t. Eh why not. There was a blatant infringement that could of stopped a goal. VAR which is not used in this instance could of corrected that. Not that it affected the result,  but it could of done.
Quite frankly this season just seems one calamity after another week after week when it has come to the rules of the game.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jan 22, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Am back in the room. Didn’t see any of the game last night, grandkids time.that aside Ave seen the penalty save and I only have one  question to ask. What was the linesman looking at, or not looking at. He don’t have to see if it has crossed the line. It emphasises why VAR was brought in because of mistakes like this. Now in this instance if City had scored. It would of gone to VAR, If not it don’t. Eh why not. There was a blatant infringement that could of stopped a goal. VAR which is not used in this instance could of corrected that. Not that it affected the result,  but it could of done.
Quite frankly this season just seems one calamity after another week after week when it has come to the rules of the game.
		
Click to expand...

Tash...if he had taken the penalty better there wouldn't have been any concern. His pen was a crock......end of.


----------



## 4LEX (Jan 22, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Jesus has the most shots on target per 90 mins of anyone with more than 6 league apps:
https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...erStatistics/England-Premier-League-2019-2020
So he's not doing _that_ bad. He is only 22 still. In games that he's started he's scored 12 in 15. Perhaps one area for criticism though - he's been subbed on 11 times and not scored in any of those. So not much of an impact sub. Source: https://www.whoscored.com/Players/279379/Show/Gabriel-Jesus

Click to expand...

He's clearly a decent player but if he stays on for 90 minutes last night City don't win that. Just like against United if Ageuro plays they get a point or win it. His goals against teams this season reads West Ham, Shaktar, Zabreb, Palace, Preston, Everton, Burnley, Leicester and Villa. Obviously it's a harsh critique but when you're as good as City the margins for the title are fine and they look nowhere near as good with him in the side.


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 22, 2020)

4LEX said:



			He's clearly a decent player but if he stays on for 90 minutes last night City don't win that. Just like against United if Ageuro plays they get a point or win it. His goals against teams this season reads West Ham, Shaktar, Zabreb, Palace, Preston, Everton, Burnley, Leicester and Villa. Obviously it's a harsh critique but when you're as good as City the margins for the title are fine and they look nowhere near as good with him in the side.
		
Click to expand...

Granted those are weaker teams he's scored against other than Leicester. But there must be a slight caveat that he doesn't get as many minutes against the big sides? Only got 13 minutes against Chelsea, 19 minutes against Liverpool. And he technically scored against Spurs if it wasn't for VAR and the nonsense new hand ball rules.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 22, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Tash...if he had taken the penalty better there wouldn't have been any concern. *His pen was a crock...*...end of.
		
Click to expand...

BM, lets forget the fact it was City. I can.

However
Ball goes into box, it brushes a fingernail of an attacker. Balls runs through to another attacker who lamps the ball into the back of the net. Every player thinks it’s a goal and walks to halfway line. Mr VAR turns up and two mins later says no goal. Coz the its the rules. 
Another scenario, Ball goes into box and it hits a defenders hand which takes the ball away from an attacker who could of scored, but we will never know. Decision. Drop ball. Why, coz it’s the rules.
Another scenario, keeper moves off line and saves ball to stop a goal being scored. Decision. Carry on. Why? Coz it’s the rules.

Another scenario, His pen was crock, keeper goes wrong way and it’s a thing of beauty. But that’s not the point is it. In fact what it has actually done is highlighted once more that VAR when it could of been used isn’t because, well you tell me.


----------



## Badger (Jan 22, 2020)

"Arsenal are in mess that'll take years to fix. And money. Which the owners won't spend because Wenger let you become a business, not a football club. Wenger destroyed his legacy, the squad and the wage structure. How can Emery build a side when he's got a passenger like Ozil on 350k a week...""  


 
4LEX
 
Post #4,024
 
Oct 23, 2019

Today  -

"Meanwhile Arteta carries on his great run.......1 win in 6 leagues games and the new manager bounce working wonders! "


Can't believe Arteta hasn't sorted it all out in the 3 weeks he's been in charge 

History will tell us how it ends up but you'd be hard pressed to find an Arsenal fan who can't see an improvement already even with the dross he's inherited.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 22, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Granted those are weaker teams he's scored against other than Leicester. But there must be a slight caveat that he doesn't get as many minutes against the big sides? Only got 13 minutes against Chelsea, 19 minutes against Liverpool. And he technically scored against Spurs if it wasn't for VAR and the nonsense new hand ball rules. 

Click to expand...

This re Spurs 👍 it’s the little things Ori 😂


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 22, 2020)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51211078

Thoughts on this one re agents.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 22, 2020)

Shocking 😁


----------



## fundy (Jan 22, 2020)

not commenting on Fernandinhos fouling or Citys timewasting still then Tashy


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jan 22, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			BM, lets forget the fact it was City. I can.

However
Ball goes into box, it brushes a fingernail of an attacker. Balls runs through to another attacker who lamps the ball into the back of the net. Every player thinks it’s a goal and walks to halfway line. Mr VAR turns up and two mins later says no goal. Coz the its the rules.
Another scenario, Ball goes into box and it hits a defenders hand which takes the ball away from an attacker who could of scored, but we will never know. Decision. Drop ball. Why, coz it’s the rules.
Another scenario, keeper moves off line and saves ball to stop a goal being scored. Decision. Carry on. Why? Coz it’s the rules.

Another scenario, His pen was crock, keeper goes wrong way and it’s a thing of beauty. But that’s not the point is it. In fact what it has actually done is highlighted once more that VAR when it could of been used isn’t because, well you tell me.
		
Click to expand...

Tashy.... I am not really interested in the VAR debate, it is what it is and we have to get on with it, my point was ref the pen...it was a skank pen and he should have done better with it. If he had, there wouldn't be anyone moaning about the keeper off the line or encroachment and any aspect that may or may not be VAR connected.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 22, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Tashy.... I am not really interested in the VAR debate, it is what it is and we have to get on with it, my point was ref the pen...it was a skank pen and he should have done better with it. If he had, there wouldn't be anyone moaning about the keeper off the line or encroachment and any aspect that may or may not be VAR connected.


Click to expand...

Yes but no one is moaning about the keeper off the line are they, they are moaning about the wrongful decision. Forget it’s City, as I have mentioned I have. It didn’t affect the result. But again, it is wrong.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jan 22, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Yes but no one is moaning about the keeper off the line are they, they are moaning about the wrongful decision. Forget it’s City, as I have mentioned I have. It didn’t affect the result. But again, it is wrong.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not moaning about any aspects of it. My point is that if the pen had been a decent one there would be no issues.....and thats ignoring the fact it was City


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 22, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



*Am back in the room. Didn’t see any of the game last night, *grandkids time.that aside Ave seen the penalty save and I only have one  question to ask. What was the linesman looking at, or not looking at. He don’t have to see if it has crossed the line. It emphasises why VAR was brought in because of mistakes like this. Now in this instance if City had scored. It would of gone to VAR, If not it don’t. Eh why not. There was a blatant infringement that could of stopped a goal. VAR which is not used in this instance could of corrected that. Not that it affected the result,  but it could of done.
Quite frankly this season just seems one calamity after another week after week when it has come to the rules of the game.
		
Click to expand...

I refer Fundy and the forum Troll to post 8646 from earlier in the day. Plus 67% possession and 18 shots ain’t bad for a to
timewasting  team. Gotta be a new prem league record.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I refer Fundy and the *forum Troll *to post 8646 from earlier in the day. Plus 67% possession and 18 shots ain’t bad for a to
timewasting  team. Gotta be a new prem league record.
		
Click to expand...

tut tut

And post 8646 has nothing about the time wasting from City last night , it was just a load of drivel about VAR and no doubt City being hard done by again


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 22, 2020)

I'll try and help Tashy  If we time wasted (don't get BT Sport) after we scored (73 minutes) then that's nothing new by ANY team. The debate on here was teams time-wasting from the first minute. As for Fernandinho - he'd be pretty much top of my list if I was picking the team week after week. Most teams and their fans would love to have him and this cycnical fouling (him and the team as a whole) has become another stick to beat City with. Every team does it.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 22, 2020)

Stats never tell the whole story but interesting reading all the same here:

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/fouls

Fernandinho in 94th place with 18...well behind Xhaka in 4th place with 38. Or are they all stupid, blatant ones so that's acceptable?


----------



## fundy (Jan 22, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Stats never tell the whole story but interesting reading all the same here:

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/fouls

Fernandinho in 94th place with 18...well behind Xhaka in 4th place with 38. Or are they all stupid, blatant ones so that's acceptable?
		
Click to expand...

xhakas are definitely likely to be stupid and blatant hence he gets as many cards as he does, nothing he does is acceptable thats for sure, not sure hes the ideal comparison though lol

last night fernandinho committed 3 fouls all from the wrong side of the Sheff utd player (2 in the first 10 or 15 mins), each time stopping the breakaway yet the ref didnt get close to booking him, could have been booked for any or all of them


----------



## fundy (Jan 22, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			I'll try and help Tashy  If we time wasted (don't get BT Sport) after we scored (73 minutes) then that's nothing new by ANY team. The debate on here was teams time-wasting from the first minute. As for Fernandinho - he'd be pretty much top of my list if I was picking the team week after week. Most teams and their fans would love to have him and this cycnical fouling (him and the team as a whole) has become another stick to beat City with. Every team does it.
		
Click to expand...

no but was interested to see if Tashy was prepared to criticise his own team for something hes criticised several other sides for lately, or whether it only applies one way as so much does on this thread, time wasting is time wasting whatever time in the game it is

Would I want Fernandinho in my side, of course I would (and i wouldnt be wasting him at centre half either albeit hed get into our side in both centre half slots and both central midfield ones!), in fact you havent got 3 or 4 of him going spare have you? Doesnt mean he (and city as a whole) dont get away with the constant tactical fouling. Bit of luck Artetas brought it to Arsenal albeit having seen Luizs last night its not bedded in yet!


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 22, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			I'll try and help Tashy  If we time wasted (don't get BT Sport) after we scored (73 minutes) then that's nothing new by ANY team. The debate on here was teams time-wasting from the first minute. As for Fernandinho - he'd be pretty much top of my list if I was picking the team week after week. Most teams and their fans would love to have him and this cycnical fouling (him and the team as a whole) has become another stick to beat City with. Every team does it.
		
Click to expand...

I did think that Amanda me duck. But am not rising to the bait. 👍.What I found odd, BT gave man of the match to KDB according to me lad, BBC gave it to the sheff Utd keeper. So am assuming he was busy, but a couple of forums I go on gave it to Laporte.
so was he busy 🤔


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			I'll try and help Tashy  If we time wasted (don't get BT Sport) after we scored (73 minutes) then that's nothing new by ANY team. The debate on here was teams time-wasting from the first minute. As for Fernandinho - he'd be pretty much top of my list if I was picking the team week after week. Most teams and their fans would love to have him and this cycnical fouling (him and the team as a whole) has become another stick to beat City with. Every team does it.
		
Click to expand...

Last time both teams were at it - both had a player booked for it 

As for the cynical fouls - it’s something that City and mainly Fernandino has done for a couple of years now but he is an superb player and been key for a number of years - just gets away with a lot of his fouls , the stats don’t show the ones he gets away with and the ones he should be carded for 

In our game last year he did two tactical fools Within the space of five mins that both should have been a yellow card , Pep did it at Barce - Busquets was the master of it but was a key player , same when he was at Bayern .


----------



## fundy (Jan 22, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I did think that Amanda me duck. But am not rising to the bait. 👍.What I found odd, BT gave man of the match to KDB according to me lad, BBC gave it to the sheff Utd keeper. So am assuming he was busy, but a couple of forums I go on gave it to Laporte.
so was he busy 🤔
		
Click to expand...

KDB was as class as always, the ball for the goal reminds me so much of Bergkamp, and not many have done that since (as big a compliment i can give anyone). Keeper made 2 or 3 class saves. Laporte wouldnt be in the conversation for me


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 22, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I did think that Amanda me duck. But am not rising to the bait. 👍.What I found odd, BT gave man of the match to KDB according to me lad, BBC gave it to the sheff Utd keeper. So am assuming he was busy, but a couple of forums I go on gave it to Laporte.
so was he busy 🤔
		
Click to expand...

Nice to see Laporte back for sure.


----------



## fundy (Jan 22, 2020)

Southgate having kittens, Kane Rashford Abraham and now Vardy, hell be trying to get Crouch back for the Euros at this rate lol


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			Southgate having kittens, Kane Rashford Abraham and now Vardy, hell be trying to get Crouch back for the Euros at this rate lol
		
Click to expand...

It's OK. Still got Ings. He's always fit......


----------



## fundy (Jan 22, 2020)

could be worse for Southgate I guess, he could be watching the West Ham team he'll be managing in the championship next year


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2020)

Ole at the Wheel 😂


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 22, 2020)

What a goal 😲😲😲😲😲

Would expect the crowd to be very annoyed 




If there werent so many empty seats 😲😲😲


Can’t remember such a poor UTD team


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2020)

The PL best back 5 doing well 😂😂😂😂


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 22, 2020)

Not be many Utd shirts being worn tomorrow at this rate. 🤔


----------



## fundy (Jan 22, 2020)

chelsea last night were awful (against the worst arsenal for a long time), city had to time waste to beat sheff utd, leicester were under the cosh at 2-1 against west ham, united losing to burnley, spurs limped past norwich

certainly not a vintage year apart from one side


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			chelsea last night were awful (against the worst arsenal for a long time), city had to time waste to beat sheff utd, leicester were under the cosh at 2-1 against west ham, united losing to burnley, spurs limped past norwich

certainly not a vintage year apart from one side 

Click to expand...

Whilst the tricky reds are just beating everyone in sight 😉


----------



## fundy (Jan 22, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Whilst the tricky reds are just beating everyone in sight 😉
		
Click to expand...


not too far, 11 points is plenty


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			not too far, 11 points is plenty 

Click to expand...

Finest bottle of Aldi’s Asti winging its way to Mudeford when it’s confirmed 😉


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			not too far, 11 points is plenty 

Click to expand...

I remember you both talking about this early in season. What odds did you get in the end?


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			chelsea last night were awful (against the worst arsenal for a long time), city had to time waste to beat sheff utd, leicester were under the cosh at 2-1 against west ham, united losing to burnley, spurs limped past norwich

certainly not a vintage year apart from one side 

Click to expand...

Said it before, this season is similar to when Leicester won the league, difference being one team is consistent. the Brucey Bonus this season again is Leicester the “ one season wonders” are having another “one season wonder” and are going to keep another team off the top table in the champs league.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 22, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Finest bottle of Aldi’s Asti winging its way to Mudeford when it’s confirmed 😉
		
Click to expand...

have drink on Tash 😁👍


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I remember you both talking about this early in season. What odds did you get in the end?
		
Click to expand...

20's


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 22, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			20's
		
Click to expand...

Nice! 

Fairnolay for taking the punt.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 22, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Nice! 

Fairnolay for taking the punt.
		
Click to expand...

All down to Fundy to be fair, bet365 closed my account after a discrepancy so I wouldnt have seen it otherwise.


----------



## JamesR (Jan 22, 2020)

Yes Burnley 🥳


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 22, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Yes but no one is moaning about the keeper off the line are they, they are moaning about the wrongful decision. Forget it’s City, as I have mentioned I have. It didn’t affect the result. But again, it is wrong.
		
Click to expand...

I must admit, I was shocked when it wasnt re-taken last night.

Only seen the David Luiz one once as well, but what happened to double-jeopardy?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 22, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			I'll try and help Tashy  If we time wasted (don't get BT Sport) after we scored (73 minutes) then that's nothing new by ANY team. The debate on here was teams time-wasting from the first minute. As for Fernandinho - he'd be pretty much top of my list if I was picking the team week after week. Most teams and their fans would love to have him and this cycnical fouling (him and the team as a whole) has become another stick to beat City with. Every team does it.
		
Click to expand...

But do they do it as "systematically" as City, I doubt anyone would agree there.

Everyone does it occasionally, but with city it looks like it is done this way, and dare I say, its as if they practice it?


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 22, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I must admit, I was shocked when it wasnt re-taken last night.

Only seen the David Luiz one once as well, but what happened to double-jeopardy?
		
Click to expand...

That's only if they make a genuine attempt at winning the ball. To send him off the ref must have reckoned he hauled Abraham down deliberately.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I must admit, I was shocked when it wasnt re-taken last night.

Only seen the David Luiz one once as well, but what happened to double-jeopardy?
		
Click to expand...

I thought that was only the keeper.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 23, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I thought that was only the keeper.
		
Click to expand...

No defenders also.

If they make no attempt for the ball it can still be a red, but you can't say that Luiz's was in that category were it was absolutely cynical and there was no chance that he either wouldnt get the ball, or a block in.


----------



## Fish (Jan 23, 2020)

fundy said:



			chelsea last night were awful (against the worst arsenal for a long time), city had to time waste to beat sheff utd, leicester were under the cosh at 2-1 against west ham, united losing to burnley, spurs limped past norwich

certainly not a vintage year apart from one side 

Click to expand...

We were never supposed to achieve anything that could be construed as a ‘vintage year’, we were written off and being punted to finish around 6th, if we were lucky, before a ball was kicked. 

I don’t know why people are trying to compare us to Chelsea teams of the past, especially when we we have had our best player leave, leaders left prematurely and be in a position not to replace any of them!  

We have more of an excuse to be struggling with such a young team than any other team around us, especially Arsenal, Spurs & Man Utd.

We have players that we had to bring in from Championship teams on loan with little or no PL experience and promote from our youth squads, and we all know what a step up that is. 

And many of those players were also written off before a ball was kicked as being inexperienced or not good enough.

And yet we’re 4th, and with a decent points gap (6) to 5th, and many more points (10) to others that have not had the constraints we have had and have no real excuses, other than just being shite!

Tammy has performed brilliantly in the context of things, but he needs help & support, the young midfield as talented as some are can’t give that week in week out, our back 4 lacks leadership, strength and experience, too many players are inconsistent and we can’t defend the basics of corners, crosses and set pieces. 

Kepa is also young and is found wanting at times, he should be doing better, especially in making the 6yd box his own, but as a small keeper, he doesn’t come off his line enough for me and currently lacks confidence, one reason for me is not having a leader in front of him. 

The problems we are experiencing are own making, so to be where we are, and with throwing 10+ points away to teams we should have beaten at home, we are, because teams that would expect to be above us with all our current weaknesses, actually doing very well and I’m more than hopeful if we buy the right experienced players to fill those gaps, we have the foundation to be a great and powerful team going forward.

But currently too much is being asked of and expected from the young guns to push our great start out for a full season, it’s simply too much for them. 

If Spurs are complaining about fatigue, what must our young squad be feeling! 

So the knockers can knock all they like, most have their own issues, which some are historic and won’t change anytime soon, whereas our fortunes will change, and with 2-3 strong signings, either in this window or the summer, it’s us that will still finish top 4, not them this season, and it’s us that will be challenging Liverpool next season, not them!

Sometimes it doesn’t take much to transform a young hungry team, VVD is evidence of that, we just need to find our key signing/s now and build around the young talent we have.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			But do they do it as "systematically" as City, I doubt anyone would agree there.

Everyone does it occasionally, but with city it looks like it is done this way, and dare I say, its as if they practice it?
		
Click to expand...

I dont they practice it, Dinho looks au natural. What tickles me is how the City crowd goes mad when it happens to a City player. 🤔😖😁


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 23, 2020)

Rio Ferdinand saying Utd fans have never left old Trafford before the end of a game. Er 1-6 rings a bell. That aside Utd  are in free games fall with the most expensive squad in the prem, highest wage bill. And Utd fans singing about the death of Ed Woodward. Not good at all.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 23, 2020)

So OGS has now lost more PL games than he's won, fans walking out and the side so inconsistent. Word has it the board are going to stick with him, but in my opinion he really doesn't look like the long terms solution. With Pogba looking to be on the way out (probably a good thing) they are woefully short of players. This sums it up nicely https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51171137


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2020)

Well the results keep making things interesting in a number of aspects in the league 

When you look at the table there are loads of issues and scenarios that could happen 

I think it’s pretty clear the top 3 are not going to change - but below it’s very interesting 

4th spot - currently Chelsea are in it but just 6 points clear -three teams below are in the race - Spurs , Man Utd and Wolves - all capable of having a run bit of also dropping points - Chelsea need a good couple of weeks. I would actually look at Wolves being the bigger danger to Chelsea - Spurs and UTD have big issues 

Europa spot will then be filled by the two team who dont make 4th 

Then below Sheff utd are probably safe , Southampton just about but then below there is a 7 point gap from 10th to 18th and anyone of those teams could get dragged in but i think the teams that will be ok are 

Arsenal , Palace , Everton , Burnley and Newcastle 

Norwich are gone imo so the final two spots are from 

Brighton , Villa , West Ham , Bournemouth and Watford

For me West Ham are in big trouble along with Brighton and it’s those two that j see going down


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 23, 2020)

Don't think West Ham will go down. Norwich will go and I can see Bournemouth joining them and then one from Brighton, Villa and Watford. For me it would be between Brighton and Villa as I think Watford have goals in them while.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 23, 2020)

That's well written fishy, where did you copy and paste that from?🤣🤣


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well the results keep making things interesting in a number of aspects in the league

When you look at the table there are loads of issues and scenarios that could happen

I think it’s pretty clear the top 3 are not going to change - but below it’s very interesting

4th spot - currently Chelsea are in it but just 6 points clear -three teams below are in the race - Spurs , Man Utd and Wolves - all capable of having a run bit of also dropping points - Chelsea need a good couple of weeks. I would actually look at Wolves being the bigger danger to Chelsea - Spurs and UTD have big issues

Europa spot will then be filled by the two team who dont make 4th

Then below Sheff utd are probably safe , Southampton just about but then below there is a 7 point gap from 10th to 18th and anyone of those teams could get dragged in but i think the teams that will be ok are

Arsenal , Palace , Everton , Burnley and Newcastle

Norwich are gone imo so the final two spots are from

Brighton , Villa , West Ham , Bournemouth and Watford

For me West Ham are in big trouble along with Brighton and it’s those two that j see going down
		
Click to expand...

I think we are gone 

The owners won't put hands in their pockets .. they hide behind summer signings but they trimmed the squad so thin at same time ...

We crying out for pace and leaving our young winger who I can never spell name of on loan at West brom 

We need a decent midfielder and a good right back 

We sold obiang and Byram in summer ..at least with them in squad with these current injury's we wouldn't be forced to use zabs who is class but legs completely gone and a very very slow midfield 

We looked better when anontio came on but he isn't fully fit and once he tired the foxes picked us off 

Liverpool next .. with them twice within a month period 

That's gonna smash the goal difference


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 23, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I dont they practice it, Dinho looks au natural. What tickles me is how the City crowd goes mad when it happens to a City player. 🤔😖😁
		
Click to expand...

We all do Tashy. 

Tactical/cynical fouling is a part of football that needs to stay. It's the dangerous/reckless ones  like Choudhury on Salah that needs to be stopped.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			We all do Tashy.

Tactical/cynical fouling is a part of football that needs to stay. It's the dangerous/reckless ones  like Choudhury on Salah that needs to be stopped.
		
Click to expand...

Careful, some might accuse you of supporting cheating.


----------



## Slime (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:








Ole at the Wheel 😂
		
Click to expand...

That was funny the first time it was posted ............................................... getting a bit predictable now.


----------



## Slime (Jan 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			The PL best back 5 doing well 😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

You have no right to comment, after all, you weren't there.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			No defenders also.

If they make no attempt for the ball it can still be a red, but you can't say that Luiz's was in that category were it was absolutely cynical and there was no chance that he either wouldnt get the ball, or a block in.
		
Click to expand...

I agree it was more a tangle of legs really.
It was a bit harsh.
But that’s how he defends.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverpool look like winning their first ever Premier league & yet their fans seem more obsessed with what UTD are doing 😳


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 23, 2020)

Slime said:



			You have no right to comment, after all, you weren't there.
		
Click to expand...

Neither was half the crowd, by then, either.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2020)

Slime said:



			That was funny the first time it was posted ............................................... getting a bit predictable now.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂. Don’t be silly - plenty of millage left whilst he is driving the bus 🤦‍♂️ - it makes the season even more enjoyable at the moment to see UTD so poor and struggling - even more so when looking back at claims of “best back 5 in the league “ 😂😂😂😂


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂. Don’t be silly - plenty of millage left whilst he is driving the bus 🤦‍♂️ - it makes the season even more enjoyable at the moment to see UTD so poor and struggling - even more so when looking back at claims of “best back 5 in the league “ 😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

You do realise opinions change?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 23, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			You do realise opinions change?
		
Click to expand...

And also what goes around....


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 23, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			So OGS has now lost more PL games than he's won, fans walking out and the side so inconsistent. Word has it the board are going to stick with him, but in my opinion he really doesn't look like the long terms solution. With Pogba looking to be on the way out (probably a good thing) they are woefully short of players. This sums it up nicely https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51171137

Click to expand...

Luckily no one is listening to your opinion


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			You do realise opinions change?
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but what’s the relevance ? Someone claimed UTD have the best back 5 in the league - I haven’t seen the change of opinion but i suspect if anyone made such a bold wild claim then it would be highlighted by anyone if shown to be wrong -

But it’s football banter at the end of the day , Liverpool fans have had 30 years of it UTD fans whilst they have dominated- are they suddenly going to start crying now because they are getting it back when things aren’t going great ? Suck it up - it’s harmless at the end of the day and many are going to enjoy UTD struggling and fingers crossed it happens for a long period


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jan 23, 2020)

How long do you honestly think it will be before Utd are back to where they were?
Me, I don’t think they will for at least 7 or 8 years.


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but what’s the relevance ? Someone claimed UTD have the best back 5 in the league - I haven’t seen the change of opinion but i suspect if anyone made such a bold wild claim then it would be highlighted by anyone if shown to be wrong -

But it’s football banter at the end of the day , Liverpool fans have had 30 years of it UTD fans whilst they have dominated- are they suddenly going to start crying now because they are getting it back when things aren’t going great ? Suck it up - it’s harmless at the end of the day and many are going to enjoy UTD struggling and fingers crossed it happens for a long period
		
Click to expand...

You’ve milked that cow so much its udders are atrophied.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 23, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			How long do you honestly think it will be before Utd are back to where they were?
Me, I don’t think they will for at least 7 or 8 years.
		
Click to expand...

It can only improve from the board down. I don't think they are running the club well and from a playing perspective they need to find a manager capable of rebuilding a team, almost from scratch and getting them into a competitive unit again. That will take time. A long time. Both the fans and the board will have to be patient and accept in the short term it will get worse before it gets better but doesn't seem to be in the United DNA and so we'll get managers coming and going, rash and panicked transfers and a team not good enough to compete and frankly in danger of struggling to make CL qualification year on year


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but what’s the relevance ? Someone claimed UTD have the best back 5 in the league - I haven’t seen the change of opinion but i suspect if anyone made such a bold wild claim then it would be highlighted by anyone if shown to be wrong -

But it’s football banter at the end of the day , Liverpool fans have had 30 years of it UTD fans whilst they have dominated- are they suddenly going to start crying now because they are getting it back when things aren’t going great ? Suck it up - it’s harmless at the end of the day and many are going to enjoy UTD struggling and fingers crossed it happens for a long period
		
Click to expand...

Yeah and Liverpool fans have spent 30 years crying over harmless banter.

Twitter is full of it,doesn’t take much for the toys to get thrown out of the pram.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			You’ve milked that cow so much its udders are atrophied.
		
Click to expand...

Don’t be silly - can milk for years just as there are no doubt many other Liverpool instance or quotes that can be milked 😂


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 23, 2020)

I'd be shocked if Ole isn't let go now. Losing at home to Burnley with an abject performance has to be the final straw doesn't it? The fact that they're 5th shows you how woeful everyone else is and how woeful this season has been as a whole. Chelsea still have a comfortable buffer in 4th despite losing 8 games already - two seasons ago Liverpool finished 4th having only lost 5 games! This will go down as the season when Liverpool won their first Premier League of course, and how superb they have been - but there will always be that asterisk denoting how shocking everybody else was.

As for relegation I would love West Ham to go down, but I think there might just be three worse teams. Bournemouth are finally paying the price for never being able to defend, and in fairness they are a tiny club so to keep their head above water all these years was impressive, but they're probably more suited to the Championship. Watford have improved under Pearson and I feel they will just pick up enough points. Aston Villa will go in my opinion, they just concede too many - although signing Reina was a coup which may help. I think the Brighton manager is just savvy enough to keep them up. In summary, Norwich, Villa & Bournemouth I reckon.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 23, 2020)

Ole will be given time don’t think there’s any doubt about that.
He has to be given time to make purchases.

I’ve been saying for weeks now the league is the weakest ever.
Even a Sky expert was saying it this morning,too late now it was so obvious before.


----------



## Fish (Jan 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			That's well written fishy, where did you copy and paste that from?🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

From the heart old chap, I’m at my best early doors 💙


----------



## Beezerk (Jan 23, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Ole will be given time don’t think there’s any doubt about that.
		
Click to expand...

Let us all hope this is true so the comedy can run on for years


----------



## harpo_72 (Jan 23, 2020)

Can I chuck my 10 pence in ... ? 
I think UTD have sacked a few managers and I think they came with credible records, but what has been consistent has been the methodology of buying players. I think Ferguson suffered toward the end of his tenure and realistically they out performed themselves in those last few seasons.
What worries me is this business model where you have a separate buying team who buy in players that they think meet the requirements, the manager used to have final say on these matters and at clubs where the manager does are they not having a better run of form. 
Oh yeah and Pogba should go, they need 3 aggressive defensive midfielders like Ince, Keane etc .. they would allow the players to play and they do have those players already. I would also argue and I am showing my age now that they need a Cantona like player I am sure he turned around that UTD side, which was good but he added magic and gave the youngsters confidence that magic was acceptable.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 23, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Ole will be given time don’t think there’s any doubt about that.
He has to be given time to make purchases.

I’ve been saying for weeks now the league is the weakest ever.
Even a Sky expert was saying it this morning,too late now it was so obvious before.
		
Click to expand...

Oh, so now the sky expert says it, its a fact now?

VAR
Injuries
Luck
Refs
Worst league ever

Any I've missed?

Can you do me a favour and give me the above in a 1-5 of what reason we (may) win it ,as having the most effect?

I'll then do:-

Character and playing to the last minute
Best defence, one of the best attacks, good midfield
Actually winning 95% of our matches against top,middle or bottom sides
Great manager who motivates, rotates and is tactically astute
VAR


----------



## Fish (Jan 23, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			This will go down as the season when Liverpool won their first Premier League of course, and how superb they have been - but there will always be that asterisk denoting how shocking everybody else was.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t think that ‘asterisk’ will mean anything IF they go unbeaten or emulate last season in only losing once, that alone shows they’re consistent whereas others are in a situation of rebuilding teams and squads and mainly with new managers, other than City, who unlike all the other expected challengers, don’t really have a valid excuse for being as poor as they have been.

Next season will be a truer acid test, in that they’ll be champions and expectations will be high, if not higher, to maintain what they’ve achieved over these last 2 seasons, but all the usual challengers should be more settled with new players and managers and they should all push them.

But if they go unbeaten or only lose once in a season, again, then we’re all off the pace for possibly a few years, nothing to do with being poor, just look at the points that have won leagues in the past or secured 4th, it’s simply a new barometer being set.

Nobody could see past City again pre season, and look what has happened there.......


----------



## harpo_72 (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Oh, so now the sky expert says it, its a fact now?

VAR
Injuries
Luck
Refs
Worst league ever

Any I've missed?

Can you do me a favour and give me the above in a 1-5 of what reason we (may) win it ,as having the most effect?

I'll then do:-

Character and playing to the last minute
Best defence, one of the best attacks, good midfield
Actually winning 95% of our matches against top,middle or bottom sides
Great manager who motivates, rotates and is tactically astute
VAR 

Click to expand...

Klopp is an awesome manager .. say what you like but his man management skills are there to see.
I would love to know how much input he has to the buying strategies, I suspect he controls it and that only seems right as he has a tactical system and knows the fit required.
Firmino is amazing .. felt like a slow burn but last season and now we are seeing it and Mane as well .. I hope they have some guys in the back pocket and I hope they are English.
The defensive frailties were accurately addressed and that has been a major impact to their season .. hence it's the buying strategy that is key.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 23, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And also what goes around....
		
Click to expand...

Spot on


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Oh, so now the sky expert says it, its a fact now?

VAR
Injuries
Luck
Refs
Worst league ever

Any I've missed?

Can you do me a favour and give me the above in a 1-5 of what reason we (may) win it ,as having the most effect?

I'll then do:-

Character and playing to the last minute
Best defence, one of the best attacks, good midfield
Actually winning 95% of our matches against top,middle or bottom sides
Great manager who motivates, rotates and is tactically astute
VAR 

Click to expand...

Well there was me thinking you were clever one.
I’ve never mentioned 1-4 only 5
There’s no doubt Liverpool are the best team by a street however all the other potential top 6 have got worse apart from Leicester you would have to be blind not to see that.
The league is weak as pee.
I’ve always praised Klopp for what he’s done,anyone who makes Henderson look good deserves all the praise.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Oh, so now the sky expert says it, its a fact now?

VAR
Injuries
Luck
Refs
Worst league ever

Any I've missed?

Can you do me a favour and give me the above in a 1-5 of what reason we (may) win it ,as having the most effect?

I'll then do:-

Character and playing to the last minute
Best defence, one of the best attacks, good midfield
Actually winning 95% of our matches against top,middle or bottom sides
Great manager who motivates, rotates and is tactically astute
VAR 

Click to expand...

Last season when two teams were 20 plus points ahead of everyone it was 

City - greatest team the Prem has seen , playing the best football the Prem has seen

Liverpool - bottled the league 

All the other top teams just couldn’t keep up with the top 2 

This season the same two teams at the top but one has created a gap it’s now 

Weakest league ever , teams going through transitions etc etc 

Over the last 5 years teams have been spending out of their pockets , swapping managers etc etc record spends for the best players yet the league is suddenly the weakest 

I guess it’s easier to laugh at the change in attitudes but I’m sure if we looked back through the 90’s and some of those league season could be classed as weak seasons 

Klopp and his team plus the team above have all done an amazing job - the attitude and spirit is just brilliant and they work so hard and just keep going and going - no arrogance about it all and it’s enjoyable to watch


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 23, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			How long do you honestly think it will be before Utd are back to where they were?
Me, I don’t think they will for at least 7 or 8 years.
		
Click to expand...

It took Klopp 18 months. Nowadays it appears management appointments are more important than players. 

With Ole, I don't see them ever getting back.


----------



## 4LEX (Jan 23, 2020)

This is a really bad season in terms of quality of the top sides, it has to be said.

Chelsea are rebuilding with a young team and novice manager. Spurs are suffering for not signing players in the previous years, failing to sort contracts out and changing managers. Arsenal are a trainwreck and have a total novice in charge. Man Utd have a proven failure of a manager in charge and a CEO who can't sign players even with the biggest budget in the world. All four will have their lowest points tally in years at the end of the season. Leicester are a well run club with a good side and manager but they'd be blown away by any top side, just like they were by City and Liverpool lately.

You can't take anything away from Liverpool because City are an amazing side and Liverpool's points total is actually laughably good. I just think the way City have crumbled in certain games despite playing really well has made this season almost too easy for Liverpool. The title is 99% sorted and it's January. After waiting so long I don't even think the most ardent Liverpool fan expected it to be this easy! Totally deserved and a class apart from the average Chelsea side of 09/10, United 10/11, City 11/12 and United 12/13. 

As for Man Utd......it was good to see Ed Woodward being targeted last night. He's the man responsible for this mess 100%. The Glazers have pulled off a business masterplan and no one can touch them. While they're using the club to service/pay off the leveraged debt they've still invested massive amounts in wages and transfer fees. The man charged with spending it has frittered almost all of it. The second biggest wage bill in the world, a transfer spend of £750m odd since 2013 and the results are abysmal. Since then they've only finished in the Top 4 twice. The bottom line is Ole isn't a very good manager and Woodward isn't fit for the job. If both remain in place failure is guarenteed. In the summer he lost Lukaku, Herrara, and Sanchez and failed to replace any of them. In this window he's embarrassed himself over the Fernandes move. Man Utd talk about building for the future but if that's the case why haven't they signed Sancho who is unsettled or snapped up Haaland who was available from a small club for £20m? For £120m you'd then have a world class front three of Rashford, Haaland and Sancho with an average age of 21 and their best years ahead of them.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 23, 2020)

4LEX said:



			This is a really bad season in terms of quality of the top sides, it has to be said.

Chelsea are rebuilding with a young team and novice manager. Spurs are suffering for not signing players in the previous years, failing to sort contracts out and changing managers. Arsenal are a trainwreck and have a total novice in charge. Man Utd have a proven failure of a manager in charge and a CEO who can't sign players even with the biggest budget in the world. All four will have their lowest points tally in years at the end of the season. Leicester are a well run club with a good side and manager but they'd be blown away by any top side, just like they were by City and Liverpool lately.

You can't take anything away from Liverpool because City are an amazing side and Liverpool's points total is actually laughably good. I just think the way City have crumbled in certain games despite playing really well has made this season almost too easy for Liverpool. The title is 99% sorted and it's January. After waiting so long I don't even think the most ardent Liverpool fan expected it to be this easy! Totally deserved and a class apart from the average Chelsea side of 09/10, United 10/11, City 11/12 and United 12/13.

As for Man Utd......it was good to see Ed Woodward being targeted last night. He's the man responsible for this mess 100%. The Glazers have pulled off a business masterplan and no one can touch them. While they're using the club to service/pay off the leveraged debt they've still invested massive amounts in wages and transfer fees. The man charged with spending it has frittered almost all of it. The second biggest wage bill in the world, a transfer spend of £750m odd since 2013 and the results are abysmal. Since then they've only finished in the Top 4 twice. The bottom line is Ole isn't a very good manager and Woodward isn't fit for the job. If both remain in place failure is guarenteed. In the summer he lost Lukaku, Herrara, and Sanchez and failed to replace any of them. In this window he's embarrassed himself over the Fernandes move. Man Utd talk about building for the future but if that's the case why haven't they signed Sancho who is unsettled or snapped up Haaland who was available from a small club for £20m? For £120m you'd then have a world class front three of Rashford, Haaland and Sancho with an average age of 21 and their best years ahead of them.
		
Click to expand...

Some very good points all pointing to the weakest league for years allowing a very good Liverpool team to win by miles.
Case closed


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 23, 2020)

Slime said:



			You have no right to comment, after all, you weren't there.
		
Click to expand...

😁😁 touched a nerve there slimey old boy?? 

Come on it's only a bit of light heated fun, nothing personal.


----------



## PieMan (Jan 23, 2020)

4LEX said:



			After waiting so long I don't even think the most ardent Liverpool fan expected it to be this easy! Totally deserved and a class apart from the average Chelsea side of 09/10, United 10/11, City 11/12 and United 12/13.
		
Click to expand...

Is that the 'average' Chelsea side that won the double in 09/10 and also broke a number of PL records? 103 goals that season, 68 goals at home and a goal difference of +71. Yep went to a lot of Chelsea games that season and always came away thinking how 'average' we were!!!


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Oh, so now the sky expert says it, its a fact now?

VAR
Injuries
Luck
Refs
Worst league ever

Any I've missed?

Can you do me a favour and give me the above in a 1-5 of what reason we (may) win it ,as having the most effect?

I'll then do:-

Character and playing to the last minute
Best defence, one of the best attacks, good midfield
Actually winning 95% of our matches against top,middle or bottom sides
Great manager who motivates, rotates and is tactically astute
VAR 

Click to expand...

I don’t think any of those above have contributed to you actually winning the league (when it happens). You are by far and away the best team in the league, and like you’ve shown. You’re winning your games irrespective of the level of the opponent. I do think though that the calibration of the opposition is lower though. Going by the last half a dozen seasons, there has never been a gap so large from first to 4th, or a gap so small from 4th to 18th. That still Doesn’t take anything away from your lot as I think you’ve shown over two seasons that you’d contend with any previous champions. 

From your list of positives, I’d say the biggest factor is his motivational tactics, and that you now have the thing UTd always had, belief that the result will come, be that an early goal and hammering a team like at the start of the season, or more ground out victories from the last few weeks. I’d say the next two are massively less of a factor. I mean, we’ve been told by some fans you’ve got a tiny squad with loads of injuries, so not sure he can really rotate too much. As can be seen by the minutes played by first teamers. I also don’t really recall your tactics changing game by game. You have a formula that works and generally stick to that. I mean that is great belief by Klopp and has been vindicated by the results, but I’d say it shows he has a great philosophy more than tactical Nous as such. 

Re all the “banter”, Liverpool and UTD are by far and away the biggest two teams in England. Any fan of those teams should realise that when they are either successful or struggling more people will be envious/taking pleasure from it. Atm it’s Liverpools turn at the top so they get to make fun but also need to suck up the jealousy heading their way. UTD fans, remember how much you took pleasure from knocking Liverpool off their perch? Nowt lasts forever.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I don’t think any of those above have contributed to you actually winning the league (when it happens). You are by far and away the best team in the league, and like you’ve shown. You’re winning your games irrespective of the level of the opponent. I do think though that the calibration of the opposition is lower though. Going by the last half a dozen seasons, there has never been a gap so large from first to 4th, or a gap so small from 4th to 18th. That still Doesn’t take anything away from your lot as I think you’ve shown over two seasons that you’d contend with any previous champions.
*
From your list of positives, I’d say the biggest factor is his motivational tactics*, and that you now have the thing UTd always had, belief that the result will come, be that an early goal and hammering a team like at the start of the season, or more ground out victories from the last few weeks. I’d say the next two are massively less of a factor. I mean, we’ve been told by some fans you’ve got a tiny squad with loads of injuries, so not sure he can really rotate too much. As can be seen by the minutes played by first teamers. I also don’t really recall your tactics changing game by game. You have a formula that works and generally stick to that. I mean that is great belief by Klopp and has been vindicated by the results, but I’d say it shows he has a great philosophy more than tactical Nous as such.

Re all the “banter”, Liverpool and UTD are by far and away the biggest two teams in England. Any fan of those teams should realise that when they are either successful or struggling more people will be envious/taking pleasure from it. Atm it’s Liverpools turn at the top so they get to make fun but also need to suck up the jealousy heading their way. UTD fans, remember how much you took pleasure from knocking Liverpool off their perch? Nowt lasts forever.
		
Click to expand...

Biggest improvement has been the mentality of the team. Their mentality is on another level and looks bomb proof at the minute.


----------



## Junior (Jan 23, 2020)

Just a couple of comments re the crowd and fans last night.   The Stretford end were immense, didnt stop from start to finish !!!!  Chatting to some Burnley fans in the boozer after the game and they said that Utd have the best away support they have seen at Turf Moor.  Singing from start to finish.  

Sure the prawn sandwich brigade left 5 minutes early (when the pictures were taken) but in the main, the frustration is the lack of signings.  How can we not sign a striker when Rashfords been playing with a stress fracture ?  Our squad is weak.  Pereira, James and Martial are not going to win us any trophies as a front 3.  Especially with Lingaard as a back up.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 23, 2020)

Junior said:



			Just a couple of comments re the crowd and fans last night.   The Stretford end were immense, didnt stop from start to finish !!!!  Chatting to some Burnley fans in the boozer after the game and they said that Utd have the best away support they have seen at Turf Moor.  Singing from start to finish. 

Sure the prawn sandwich brigade left 5 minutes early (when the pictures were taken) but in the main, the frustration is the lack of signings.  How can we not sign a striker when Rashfords been playing with a stress fracture ?  Our squad is weak.  Pereira, James and Martial are not going to win us any trophies as a front 3.  Especially with Lingaard as a back up.
		
Click to expand...

Has Rashford been playing with a stress fracture?
Ole said he hasnt
As Ole also pointed out he has a fantastic medical team.
Unless the truth is known it’s all speculation


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 23, 2020)

4LEX said:



			This is a really bad season in terms of quality of the top sides, it has to be said.

Chelsea are rebuilding with a young team and novice manager. Spurs are suffering for not signing players in the previous years, failing to sort contracts out and changing managers. Arsenal are a trainwreck and have a total novice in charge. Man Utd have a proven failure of a manager in charge and a CEO who can't sign players even with the biggest budget in the world. All four will have their lowest points tally in years at the end of the season. Leicester are a well run club with a good side and manager but they'd be blown away by any top side, just like they were by City and Liverpool lately.

You can't take anything away from Liverpool because City are an amazing side and Liverpool's points total is actually laughably good. I just think the way City have crumbled in certain games despite playing really well has made this season almost too easy for Liverpool. The title is 99% sorted and it's January. After waiting so long I don't even think the most ardent Liverpool fan expected it to be this easy! Totally deserved and a class apart from the average Chelsea side of 09/10, United 10/11, City 11/12 and United 12/13.

As for Man Utd......it was good to see Ed Woodward being targeted last night. He's the man responsible for this mess 100%. The Glazers have pulled off a business masterplan and no one can touch them. While they're using the club to service/pay off the leveraged debt they've still invested massive amounts in wages and transfer fees. The man charged with spending it has frittered almost all of it. The second biggest wage bill in the world, a transfer spend of £750m odd since 2013 and the results are abysmal. Since then they've only finished in the Top 4 twice. The bottom line is Ole isn't a very good manager and Woodward isn't fit for the job. If both remain in place failure is guarenteed. In the summer he lost Lukaku, Herrara, and Sanchez and failed to replace any of them. In this window he's embarrassed himself over the Fernandes move. Man Utd talk about building for the future but if that's the case why haven't they signed Sancho who is unsettled or snapped up Haaland who was available from a small club for £20m? For £120m you'd then have a world class front three of Rashford, Haaland and Sancho with an average age of 21 and their best years ahead of them.
		
Click to expand...

Sounds better than "some guy off sky said".

Some good points, but also one of perspective. 

Just because some of the traditional top clubs (and City and Chelsea)  are struggling, doesnt mean that the whole league is, or English football is. Outside of Liverpool, and as Ive said before maybe the likes of Sheff Utd, Wolves, Palace, West Ham (early on), Soton (now) have got better,so making the league MORE competitive. Just because Liverpool have beaten all and sundry doesnt mean the league is less competitive, but just that the title race is less competitive, because off our one in a hundred year form (so far).

Isnt this the league that supplied both of last year's CL finalists, Europa league finalists. United knocked PSG out and got to the quarters, City also did before getting knocked out by another English club?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2020)

Junior said:



			Just a couple of comments re the crowd and fans last night.   The Stretford end were immense, didnt stop from start to finish !!!!  Chatting to some Burnley fans in the boozer after the game and they said that Utd have the best away support they have seen at Turf Moor.  Singing from start to finish. 

Sure the prawn sandwich brigade left 5 minutes early (when the pictures were taken) but in the main, the frustration is the lack of signings.  *How can we not sign a striker when Rashfords been playing with a stress fracture ? * Our squad is weak.  Pereira, James and Martial are not going to win us any trophies as a front 3.  Especially with Lingaard as a back up.
		
Click to expand...

That seems from the outside to be very poor weak management - the same with the Pogba injuries issue and going to his own “people” 

I’m not sure why Lukaku wasn’t replaced and again why no striker now - James is a good player but needs time to develop , Pereira just doesn’t seem good enough and Martial despite all the talent doesn’t seem to want it. 

Spending so much money in the summer without a striker shows a lack of thinking and even now.


----------



## Junior (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That seems from the outside to be very poor weak management - the same with the Pogba injuries issue and going to his own “people”

I’m not sure why Lukaku wasn’t replaced and again why no striker now - James is a good player but needs time to develop , Pereira just doesn’t seem good enough and Martial despite all the talent doesn’t seem to want it.

Spending so much money in the summer without a striker shows a lack of thinking and even now.
		
Click to expand...

I think haaland was the one they had lined up but Raiola scuppered that.  His deal with Dortmund is crazy good. If they sell him Railoa gets anything over €20m.  Even so, the lack of thinking and preparation is worrying.  Albeit all we get is the paper talk.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2020)

Junior said:



			I think haaland was the one they had lined up but Raiola scuppered that.  His deal with Dortmund is crazy good. If they sell him Railoa gets anything over €20m.  Even so, the lack of thinking and preparation is worrying.  Albeit all we get is the paper talk.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah the Halaand deal is mental - Dortmund will sell in a year with a bit of profit and Raiola with a lot but it’s just a stepping stone and I don’t think Halaand is actually going to be That sort of super star.

But the it seems that the “negotiations” are an issue - when they want a player they seem to want to negotiate first but then end up spending 8 weeks and getting the player on the same price - just give the price that the club wants if they really want the player - Bruno Fernandes right now is a perfect example


----------



## 4LEX (Jan 23, 2020)

PieMan said:



			Is that the 'average' Chelsea side that won the double in 09/10 and also broke a number of PL records? 103 goals that season, 68 goals at home and a goal difference of +71. Yep went to a lot of Chelsea games that season and always came away thinking how 'average' we were!!! 

Click to expand...

You beat a bang average United side by 1 point I recall. United sold Ronaldo and Tevez, replaced them with Valencia and Owen and were one dodgy goal off winning the title  I also recall that was the season you had a fair few big wins against fodder like Wigan which skewed the goal difference. I think Malouda almost got 20 goals! A successful season but I will stand by my comments those sides were average Champions in the bigger picture. A step down from Arsenal 04, Chelsea 04-06 and United 06-09 anyway. Plus the current City and Liverpool sides.

I think anyone saying Liverpool have won it by default are doing them a diservice. The consistency over the last two years is the best in the history of the PL. They'll average way over 90 points for two seasons in a row, which even with the top sides struggling is amazing. Plus they're doing well in cups too. I had doubts over Klopp and thought he was a one trick pony playing attacking, high tempo scatter gun football up until 2018. But he was backed with top class signings and learnt from his mistakes. The way he has evolved Liverpool from a brilliant gung ho attacking side that was never going to win anything, to a well drilled and solid winning machine deserves the highest praise. Likable, funny, crazy, intense and takes no crap - just everything you want in a manager. If anything Liverpool have made it so easy they probably aren't getting the credit they deserve.


----------



## 4LEX (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yeah the Halaand deal is mental - Dortmund will sell in a year with a bit of profit and Raiola with a lot but it’s just a stepping stone and I don’t think Halaand is actually going to be That sort of super star.

But the it seems that the “negotiations” are an issue - when they want a player they seem to want to negotiate first but then end up spending 8 weeks and getting the player on the same price - just give the price that the club wants if they really want the player - Bruno Fernandes right now is a perfect example
		
Click to expand...

Haaland has been parked at Dortmund without a doubt. They'rean attack minded side with loads of playermakers and wingers that probably won't win anything, so he'll play and score 40 a season and then they'll sell to a United, Juve or Real for £100m and the profit will be split between the clubs and the agent. But that's football these days - the agents are part of it and if you refuse to get in on these deals you're fighting for scraps.


----------



## 4LEX (Jan 23, 2020)

Junior said:



			Just a couple of comments re the crowd and fans last night.   The Stretford end were immense, didnt stop from start to finish !!!!  Chatting to some Burnley fans in the boozer after the game and they said that Utd have the best away support they have seen at Turf Moor.  Singing from start to finish. 

Sure the prawn sandwich brigade left 5 minutes early (when the pictures were taken) but in the main, the frustration is the lack of signings.  How can we not sign a striker when Rashfords been playing with a stress fracture ?  Our squad is weak.  Pereira, James and Martial are not going to win us any trophies as a front 3.  Especially with Lingaard as a back up.
		
Click to expand...

United have had the best away support in the country for years, along with Liverpool and then Leeds IMO.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 23, 2020)

Fish said:



			I don’t think that ‘asterisk’ will mean anything IF they go unbeaten or emulate last season in only losing once, that alone shows they’re consistent whereas others are in a situation of rebuilding teams and squads and mainly with new managers, *other than City, who unlike all the other expected challengers, don’t really have a valid excuse for being as poor as they have been.*

Next season will be a truer acid test, in that they’ll be champions and expectations will be high, if not higher, to maintain what they’ve achieved over these last 2 seasons, but all the usual challengers should be more settled with new players and managers and they should all push them.

But if they go unbeaten or only lose once in a season, again, then we’re all off the pace for possibly a few years, nothing to do with being poor, just look at the points that have won leagues in the past or secured 4th, it’s simply a new barometer being set.

*Nobody could see past City again pre season, and look what has happened there....*...
		
Click to expand...

Fish if I am reading that every team is rebuilding etc and have an excuse for being rubbish apart from City.Well er.

Complete and utter rammel, City have been decimated by injuries to Major players Rodri, Sane, Laporte. Etc. That’s why City have not performed. Take out VVD, Bobby and Henderson and tell me Liverpool Would be in the same position. Lazy posting Fish.
not gonna go there re VAR either.


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Sounds better than "some guy off sky said".

Some good points, but also one of perspective.

Just because some of the traditional top clubs (and City and Chelsea)  are struggling, doesnt mean that the whole league is, or English football is. Outside of Liverpool, and as Ive said before maybe the likes of Sheff Utd, Wolves, Palace, West Ham (early on), Soton (now) have got better,so making the league MORE competitive. Just because Liverpool have beaten all and sundry doesnt mean the league is less competitive, but just that the title race is less competitive, because off our one in a hundred year form (so far).

Isnt this the league that supplied both of last year's CL finalists, Europa league finalists. United knocked PSG out and got to the quarters, City also did before getting knocked out by another English club?
		
Click to expand...

Only Liverpool, Leicester, Sheff Utd & maybe Southampton have had really good seasons. Everyone else is either way below expectations (Spurs, Man Utd, City, Arsenal, West Ham, Bournemouth, Watford, Burnley, Everton) or at best at a similar level to last year (Chelsea, Wolves, Palace, Brighton).


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Sounds better than "some guy off sky said".

Some good points, but also one of perspective.

Just because some of the traditional top clubs (and City and Chelsea)  are struggling, doesnt mean that the whole league is, or English football is. Outside of Liverpool, and as Ive said before maybe the likes of Sheff Utd, Wolves, Palace, West Ham (early on), Soton (now) have got better,so making the league MORE competitive. Just because Liverpool have beaten all and sundry doesnt mean the league is less competitive, but just that the title race is less competitive, because off our one in a hundred year form (so far).

Isnt this the league that supplied both of last year's CL finalists, Europa league finalists. United knocked PSG out and got to the quarters, City also did before getting knocked out by another English club?
		
Click to expand...

The teams you have mentioned and Leicester. Been a good season for them taking points off 3 of the top four.


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 23, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Fish if I am reading that every team is rebuilding etc and have an excuse for being rubbish apart from City.Well er.

Complete and utter rammel, *City have been decimated by injuries to Major players Rodri, Sane, Laporte.* Etc. That’s why City have not performed. Take out VVD, Bobby and Henderson and tell me Liverpool Would be in the same position. Lazy posting Fish.
not gonna go there re VAR either.
		
Click to expand...

Because they underprepared. Went into the season with Laporte plus two rubbish centre backs that their manager doesn't trust. You can't blame injuries for that. I would argue Sane has hardly been missed when you have Mahrez, Sterling, Bernardo, Jesus all chipping in. Rodri has only missed two games so not sure why you brought him up.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 23, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Fish if I am reading that every team is rebuilding etc and have an excuse for being rubbish apart from City.Well er.

Complete and utter rammel, City have been decimated by injuries to Major players Rodri, Sane, Laporte. Etc. That’s why City have not performed. Take out VVD, Bobby and Henderson and tell me Liverpool Would be in the same position. Lazy posting Fish.
not gonna go there re VAR either.
		
Click to expand...

Rodri has missed 3 games and Sane is a squad player who was rumoured to be leaving. He also got injured prior to transfer window so could have been replaced. You aren’t exactly short in attack though. 

Laporte is a big miss, but you’ve got 300m of defenders that pep signed and he chooses to play midfielders there. Who’s fault is that?


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 23, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Only Liverpool, Leicester, Sheff Utd & maybe Southampton have had really good seasons. Everyone else is either way below expectations (Spurs, Man Utd, City, Arsenal, West Ham, Bournemouth, Watford, Burnley, Everton) or at best at a similar level to last year (Chelsea, Wolves, Palace, Brighton).
		
Click to expand...

Haha

Saints having a good season? We got smashed 9-0!! It appears good compared to where it was, But me and most of my mates felt at the start of the season we would be comfortable. Think we will be nearer 50 points than 40. So as expected/hoped imo.


----------



## PieMan (Jan 23, 2020)

4LEX said:



			You beat a bang average United side by 1 point I recall. United sold Ronaldo and Tevez, replaced them with Valencia and Owen and were one dodgy goal off winning the title 

Click to expand...

The core of that 'bang average' Utd side that season contained Van Der Sar, Gary Neville, Evra, Ferdinand, Berbatov, Roonery, Giggs, Vidic, Carrick, Scholes, and Rooney.

And managed by the greatest club manager in the history of English football.

I cannot believe we only beat them by 1 point! 

Yes we gave out some absolute drubbings en route to the title - with the average players in our squad at the time we must've been very lucky indeed!


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 23, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Because they underprepared. Went into the season with Laporte plus two rubbish centre backs that their manager doesn't trust. You can't blame injuries for that. I would argue Sane has hardly been missed when you have Mahrez, Sterling, Bernardo, Jesus all chipping in. Rodri has only missed two games so not sure why you brought him up.
		
Click to expand...

You cannot blame injuries 😳 ok we will call it leprosy then. Am stating facts not opinions. You would argue Same has not been injured. we are 13 points behind Liverpool and it could be 19. And the quickest player in the league is not missed. Yet you quote we have sterling who has been rammel for 3 months.Laporte is our No 1 defender, yet Stones and Otamendi who have a couple of prem titles apiece have not performed. I suppose we could bring back Mangala 😖


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Rodri has missed 3 games and Sane is a squad player who was rumoured to be leaving. He also got injured prior to transfer window so could have been replaced. You aren’t exactly short in attack though.

Laporte is a big miss, but you’ve got 300m of defenders that pep signed and he chooses to play midfielders there. Who’s fault is that?
		
Click to expand...

Simple question Papas. If City and Liverpool had been injury free, would the gap of been as it is. Or would it of been similar to the previous season.


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Haha

Saints having a good season? We got smashed 9-0!! It appears good compared to where it was, But me and most of my mates felt at the start of the season we would be comfortable. Think we will be nearer 50 points than 40. So as expected/hoped imo.
		
Click to expand...

That's fair enough, you started diabolically but then Ings started scoring and you've shot up the league places. I'll stick them in the 'about average' pile then.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 23, 2020)

If you'd had Laporte I think you may have been closer imo. I still think the results you've had this season are more to do with Pep though. Taking Fernandinho from the midfield leaves your defence exposed. I think he'd still have done that with Laporte at the back as he doesn't trust your other cbs. 

The other two had no effect imo. 

Liverpool have drawn one game so far though. So, I still think they'd have a lead. There current form has then due for 10 points more tha your best.


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 23, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			You cannot blame injuries 😳 ok we will call it leprosy then. Am stating facts not opinions. You would argue Same has not been injured. we are 13 points behind Liverpool and it could be 19. And the quickest player in the league is not missed. Yet you quote we have sterling who has been rammel for 3 months.Laporte is our No 1 defender, yet Stones and Otamendi who have a couple of prem titles apiece have not performed. I suppose we could bring back Mangala 😖
		
Click to expand...

If I build a house with no roof, then the rain floods my house, do you blame me or do you blame the rain?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 23, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Fish if I am reading that every team is rebuilding etc and have an excuse for being rubbish apart from City.Well er.

Complete and utter rammel, City have been decimated by injuries to Major players Rodri, Sane, Laporte. Etc. That’s why City have not performed. Take out VVD, Bobby and Henderson and tell me Liverpool Would be in the same position. Lazy posting Fish.
not gonna go there re VAR either.
		
Click to expand...

Alisson was out for months
Fabinho was out for months
Gomez was out for months
Lovren was out in and out for months
Matip has been out for months
Keita has been in and out

So what was you point again, about one fella who missed 3 games?


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Alisson was out for months
Fabinho was out for months
Gomez was out for months
Lovren was out in and out for months
Matip has been out for months
Keita has been in and out

So what was you point again, about one fella who missed 3 games?
		
Click to expand...

Read post 8748 👍


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 23, 2020)

Just doing some anaylsis to compare appearances this season between City and Liverpool. For me the main difference is stability in defence. We can't keep a clean sheet and can dominate possession for the first half and go in 1-0 down with our opponents having one attack. Liverpool just look more difficult to break down and are scraping some wins when they've not been at their best - something we haven't done much, if any of, at all.

So: 

Ederson 21 appearances. Alisson 14. (Poor Ederson is usually not at fault mind).
Laporte 5. VVD 22 (I think it's fair to compare these two as they're not only the best defenders but also leaders in defence). Fernandinho 20. Gomez 13.
Full backs: Walker 18 and Mendy 11, Robertson and Arnold have 22 each. 

Without doubt Liverpool have by far the most settled defence (3 out of 4 players have played 22 out of 22!)

In midfield it's similar for both sides with KDB at 23 and Rodri at 22. Henderson has played 21 and ditto Wijnaldum. Fabhino is on 13 so not so bad really.

Up front both are pretty settled with Sterling at 22 and Aguero 18. Jesus has 20 but we'd all agree he's not first pick. Firmino has played all 22 and Mane 21 with Salah on 19.

So this isn't to take away from Liverpool and don't buy into this everyone else is weak. We have been more hampered by injury, that's 100% true, BUT still should have done better in games where it's there for the taking.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 23, 2020)

I fear I've morphed into a female LP - off for a lie down!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Simple question Papas. If City and Liverpool had been injury free, would the gap of been as it is. Or would it of been similar to the previous season.
		
Click to expand...

You have missed one first team for half a season - you have the most expensive squad in history and one injury hurts that bad ? Seems like the manager didn’t spend the £150mil in the summer very well

And Liverpool have also been without first team players as well

Injuries is a poor excuse - you won the title , one player left and you spent £150 mil on players - so you would expect the team to move forward

The manager should have at the very least replaced Kompany in the summer instead of risking the season with 3 CB’s


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 23, 2020)

Can all the people who think the P/L is not weak come up with an argument to how they thing it is strong.
It’s alright having an opinion but it needs backing up.
#easypeesypremierleaguey


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2020)

The good news is if the phone in on talksport is anything to go by the Man Utd fans are fully behind the manager and want to give him at least a couple of seasons. They appear to believe he wasn’t backed enough in the summer ( spent £130 mil on two players ) and isn’t being backed now


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 23, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			I fear I've morphed into a female LP - off for a lie down!
		
Click to expand...

😳😂


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 23, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Can all the people who think the P/L is not weak come up with an argument to how they thing it is strong.
It’s alright having an opinion but it needs backing up.
#easypeesypremierleaguey
		
Click to expand...

PJ. Am.old skool. I for one think the premier league has been good. Very good. As a City fan of decades I thought it was boring when football was invented the day Sky started showing it and the premier league was formed. It was all about the big four. Chelsea, arsenal, Utd and Liverpool. For anyone else it was monotonous. City, spurs and Leicester, liddle old Leicester have smashed that big four apart.
This season has seen Liddle teams, and I can use that expression coz I follow liddle Citeh, the noisy neighbours. Liddle teams have taken points off the premier champs, look at burnley last night. All season pools forecasts have been smashed because of upsets. The prem league is not just about the top table but every team in it. 
Yup Citys results aside, try telling any fan from a liddle team punching above its weight it's a rubbish year. And you know what, ave a feeling theres a few more twists and turns yet.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Just doing some anaylsis to compare appearances this season between City and Liverpool. For me the main difference is stability in defence. We can't keep a clean sheet and can dominate possession for the first half and go in 1-0 down with our opponents having one attack. Liverpool just look more difficult to break down and are scraping some wins when they've not been at their best - something we haven't done much, if any of, at all.

So:

Ederson 21 appearances. Alisson 14. (Poor Ederson is usually not at fault mind).
Laporte 5. VVD 22 (I think it's fair to compare these two as they're not only the best defenders but also leaders in defence). Fernandinho 20. Gomez 13.
Full backs: Walker 18 and Mendy 11, Robertson and Arnold have 22 each.

Without doubt Liverpool have by far the most settled defence (3 out of 4 players have played 22 out of 22!)

In midfield it's similar for both sides with KDB at 23 and Rodri at 22. Henderson has played 21 and ditto Wijnaldum. Fabhino is on 13 so not so bad really.

Up front both are pretty settled with Sterling at 22 and Aguero 18. Jesus has 20 but we'd all agree he's not first pick. Firmino has played all 22 and Mane 21 with Salah on 19.

So this isn't to take away from Liverpool and don't buy into this everyone else is weak. We have been more hampered by injury, that's 100% true, BUT still should have done better in games where it's there for the taking.
		
Click to expand...

I think it’s a spot on post 

3 of our back 5 have been ever present - but have at times missed key players - Alisson for one has missed a few but a great signing in the summer bringing in Adrian 

CB - Gomez is our number one alongside VVD but was of form so Matip starting the season then injured , then Lovren stepped in - injured then Gomez back in and been superb since 

Midfield - Gini and Milner have had a few injuries but the big one was Fabinho - but we have managed to cover the injuries with the squad so the miss  has been more manageable - same when Salah was out for a little bit 

I don’t understand why City didn’t replace Kompany - losing Laporte ( who I think is superb ) was a big miss but replacing Kompany would have covered that injury 

The question was asked would the gap be the same if both teams had no injuries - I think it would have been give or take a few points - has Laporte being been that big a miss ?


----------



## Slime (Jan 23, 2020)

Oh, and this is what I actually said about our defence.



Slime said:



			Our new defensive set up is infinitely stronger that we finished with last season.
De Gea, AWB, Lindelof, Maguire and Shaw ...........................* I can't think of many better in the Prem.*

Click to expand...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2020)

Slime said:



			Oh, and this is what I actually said about our defence.
		
Click to expand...




Slime said:



			As I said a while back, I can't think of many better back fives in the Prem ............................. if any!
		
Click to expand...

And this as well 😉 

Have you had time to think ?


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think it’s a spot on post

3 of our back 5 have been ever present - but have at times missed key players - Alisson for one has missed a few but a great signing in the summer bringing in Adrian

CB - Gomez is our number one alongside VVD but was of form so Matip starting the season then injured , then Lovren stepped in - injured then Gomez back in and been superb since

Midfield - Gini and Milner have had a few injuries but the big one was Fabinho - but we have managed to cover the injuries with the squad so the miss  has been more manageable - same when Salah was out for a little bit

I don’t understand why City didn’t replace Kompany - losing Laporte ( who I think is superb ) was a big miss but replacing Kompany would have covered that injury

The question was asked would the gap be the same if both teams had no injuries - I think it would have been give or take a few points - has Laporte being been that big a miss ?
		
Click to expand...

I think Laporte is a big miss as those around him can be pretty rammel  and like headless chickens without some leadership! Kompany is indeed a huge miss as even past his very best he was an amazing leader. To replace that this season was always going to be a big ask even with another CB on the books. I think the gap would be around the 7-8 points which we've proved is doable 

PS For me (via my telebox!) both Sterling and Bernardo Silva have been way off their form from last season. Sterling looks like he did when we bought him


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 23, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			I think Laporte is a big miss as those around him can be pretty rammel  and like headless chickens without some leadership! Kompany is indeed a huge miss as even past his very best he was an amazing leader. To replace that this season was always going to be a big ask even with another CB on the books. I think the gap would be around the 7-8 points which we've proved is doable 

PS For me (via my telebox!) both Sterling and Bernardo Silva have been way off their form from last season. Sterling looks like he did when we bought him 

Click to expand...

This hits the nail firmly on the head, for me KDB has been massive, Mahrez has come of age. Aguero has as many goals at top flight football as Shearer and is on fire. Players underperforming others smashing it.


----------



## Fade and Die (Jan 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			I think we are gone

The owners won't put hands in their pockets .. they hide behind summer signings but they trimmed the squad so thin at same time ...

We crying out for pace and leaving our young winger who I can never spell name of on loan at West brom

We need a decent midfielder and a good right back

We sold obiang and Byram in summer ..at least with them in squad with these current injury's we wouldn't be forced to use zabs who is class but legs completely gone and a very very slow midfield

We looked better when anontio came on but he isn't fully fit and once he tired the foxes picked us off

Liverpool next .. with them twice within a month period

That's gonna smash the goal difference
		
Click to expand...

Yes I’ve resigned myself to relegation. 
The owners are just Money grabbing, greed driven bastewards just in it for the payday.
One positive should be that I can get a seat closer to the pitch next year!😆


----------



## Slime (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And this as well 😉

Have you had time to think ?
		
Click to expand...

Loads, thanks.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 23, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			PJ. Am.old skool. I for one think the premier league has been good. Very good. As a City fan of decades I thought it was boring when football was invented the day Sky started showing it and the premier league was formed. It was all about the big four. Chelsea, arsenal, Utd and Liverpool. For anyone else it was monotonous. City, spurs and Leicester, liddle old Leicester have smashed that big four apart.
This season has seen Liddle teams, and I can use that expression coz I follow liddle Citeh, the noisy neighbours. Liddle teams have taken points off the premier champs, look at burnley last night. All season pools forecasts have been smashed because of upsets. The prem league is not just about the top table but every team in it.
Yup Citys results aside, try telling any fan from a liddle team punching above its weight it's a rubbish year. And you know what, ave a feeling theres a few more twists and turns yet.
		
Click to expand...

Tash I don’t think that answers my question.
Prove it’s strong as previous years.
The so called top 6 are much weaker.
Many seasons safety was 40 points I suspect it will be much lower this year


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And this as well 😉

Have you had time to think ?
		
Click to expand...

😂 so coy 😂
Can you think of a better back 5 now in the  Prem or still can’t think of one 😉


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 23, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Tash I don’t think that answers my question.
Prove it’s strong as previous years.
The so called top 6 are much weaker.
Many seasons safety was 40 points I suspect it will be much lower this year
		
Click to expand...

what I do find amusing is teams buying top players from other clubs and them doing nothing. Am On about Maguire, lukaku and wan bissaka. Am sure there’s other. Flippin eck City have bought some duds over the years. I think Sheff Utd have had a stonking season yet am not sure any of its players have been earmarked in moving to a top six club. Where as Leicester, some of there players have. Will be interesting watching what unfolds at Leicester at the end of the season


----------



## Slime (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂 so coy 😂
Can you think of a better back 5 now in the  Prem or still can’t think of one 😉
		
Click to expand...

Nope.
The thing is, without a midfield in front of them, it'll always be an impossible job.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2020)

Slime said:



			Nope.
The thing is, without a midfield in front of them, it'll always be an impossible job.
		
Click to expand...

Fair play for sticking to your convictions - I suspect you will be amazed to find anyone who thinks the UTD back 5 is better than Liverpool’s , Citys for starter - not one of those back 5 would get in the Liverpool team regardless of using the midfield as an excuse - when you spend the money UTD have on them and give them the wages they get you expect a damn sight better than what you are getting.


----------



## fundy (Jan 23, 2020)

Slime said:



			Nope.
The thing is, without a midfield in front of them, it'll always be an impossible job.
		
Click to expand...

you wanna try having neither lol


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 23, 2020)

As painful as it is to admit the rise of Liverpool again from an also ran to running away with it is remarkable 

Yeah you can say oh they spent X amount on a keeper or they spent X amount on the best CB in the league ... Doesnt really mean squat without a really amazing manager to get the most out of them 

Van dyke for example was an outcast at Southampton and was talks of spurs going for him and not good enough for city at the time.. bet they regret that .. Liverpool got their man and klopp has no doubt improved him 

Allison yes brilliant keeper but so is ederson so it's not a massive advantage 

Liverpool have been on the rise for what 3 seasons constantly 

Champ league second place 
Champ league winners plus a total points that would win it most other years 

This year they look set to get that kind of total again ... Whilst city are naturally fadding as their stars age ..

Liverpool are a very very young side and well balanced it seems.. city seem so top heavy..how many wingers do they have? No centre backs tho ..all that money on stones ... He's average .. Gomez much much better and looks assured in defence 

Just hats off to them

Klopp has to go down as one of the greats for me


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 23, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			what I do find amusing is teams buying top players from other clubs and them doing nothing. Am On about Maguire, lukaku and wan bissaka. Am sure there’s other. Flippin eck City have bought some duds over the years. I think Sheff Utd have had a stonking season yet am not sure any of its players have been earmarked in moving to a top six club. Where as Leicester, some of there players have. Will be interesting watching what unfolds at Leicester at the end of the season
		
Click to expand...

Nope still haven’t come up with an answer,your not the only one.
Wan Bissaka has been a great buy


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			As painful as it is to admit the rise of Liverpool again from an also ran to running away with it is remarkable 

Yeah you can say oh they spent X amount on a keeper or they spent X amount on the best CB in the league ... Doesnt really mean squat without a really amazing manager to get the most out of them 

Van dyke for example was an outcast at Southampton and was talks of spurs going for him and not good enough for city at the time.. bet they regret that .. Liverpool got their man and klopp has no doubt improved him 

Allison yes brilliant keeper but so is ederson so it's not a massive advantage 

Liverpool have been on the rise for what 3 seasons constantly 

Champ league second place 
Champ league winners plus a total points that would win it most other years 

This year they look set to get that kind of total again ... Whilst city are naturally fadding as their stars age ..

Liverpool are a very very young side and well balanced it seems.. city seem so top heavy..how many wingers do they have? No centre backs tho ..all that money on stones ... He's average .. Gomez much much better and looks assured in defence 

Just hats off to them

Klopp has to go down as one of the greats for me
		
Click to expand...

Van Dyke an outcast? You mean he threw his toys out when he didn’t get his way. His class was undeniable on the pitch. 
Not sure any saints fan didn’t think he’d succeed. As much as His last 6 Months were poor due to his attitude. His ability was clear though. He’s getting more airtime, but look at how our defence fell apart when he left. He’s imo not improved that much. He was always that good. 

As to spurs n city, He was never heading anywhere but Anfield after they tapped him up.


----------



## 4LEX (Jan 23, 2020)

PieMan said:



			The core of that 'bang average' Utd side that season contained Van Der Sar, Gary Neville, Evra, Ferdinand, Berbatov, Roonery, Giggs, Vidic, Carrick, Scholes, and Rooney.

And managed by the greatest club manager in the history of English football.

I cannot believe we only beat them by 1 point! 

Yes we gave out some absolute drubbings en route to the title - with the average players in our squad at the time we must've been very lucky indeed!
		
Click to expand...

I didn't say you were lucky. I said you were average champions and you were. I was comparing to truly great sides. Obviously you had some quality players in the side - Cech, Terry, Cole, Lampard and Drogba (I belive Anelka was decent too) and it might've been a great season for you as a fan and as a club, however it wasn't a great side at all. No one looks back and talks about the Chelsea side of 2010.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 23, 2020)

Watching this tonight and traore tearing Liverpool a new one gave me slim hope for next week with Antonio being similar to him in pace and flat track bullying 

However then I remembered the 10 other players are a lot better than ours lol..


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 23, 2020)

What is it they used to say about United ... Sign of a great team digging deep and winning when playing poor


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 23, 2020)

What a brilliant game - great hard work to get the win , 40 games unbeaten run in the Prem now 

How good is Traore !! Outstanding pace and brilliant delivery - take him at Liverpool 

Wolves were superb and play like that for the rest of the season they can sneak 4th


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 23, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Nope still haven’t come up with an answer,your not the only one.
Wan Bissaka has been a great buy
		
Click to expand...

  But your asking a question that does not have a factual answer. Liverpool winning the league with a record number of points. For me that makes them a very strong team, but what, the rest are rammel coz of what? Coz it’s not as strong, what does that exactly mean. It certainly don’t mean it’s rammel. Football since it has been invented has had peaks and troughs when it has come to teams. But coz one or a couple of teams have dipped. Others have peaked, does that mean coz the status quo has changed its now rammel. I dont see that, and I have enjoyed this season as much as others ( VAR aside).


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Van Dyke an outcast? You mean he threw his toys out when he didn’t get his way. His class was undeniable on the pitch.
Not sure any saints fan didn’t think he’d succeed. As much as His last 6 Months were poor due to his attitude. His ability was clear though. He’s getting more airtime, but look at how our defence fell apart when he left. He’s imo not improved that much. He was always that good.

As to spurs n city, He was never heading anywhere but _*Anfield after they tapped him up*_.
		
Click to expand...

 Or the first time they have done it, but not the only ones


----------



## Captainron (Jan 23, 2020)

A good title race makes a great team. Backs to the wall, win at all costs or get overtaken and lose is what makes it. 15 points gap is a stroll int’ park. No real pressure on the run in....


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 23, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Just doing some anaylsis to compare appearances this season between City and Liverpool. For me the main difference is stability in defence. We can't keep a clean sheet and can dominate possession for the first half and go in 1-0 down with our opponents having one attack. Liverpool just look more difficult to break down and are scraping some wins when they've not been at their best - something we haven't done much, if any of, at all.

So:

Ederson 21 appearances. Alisson 14. (Poor Ederson is usually not at fault mind).
Laporte 5. VVD 22 (I think it's fair to compare these two as they're not only the best defenders but also leaders in defence). Fernandinho 20. Gomez 13.
Full backs: Walker 18 and Mendy 11, Robertson and Arnold have 22 each.

Without doubt Liverpool have by far the most settled defence (3 out of 4 players have played 22 out of 22!)

In midfield it's similar for both sides with KDB at 23 and Rodri at 22. Henderson has played 21 and ditto Wijnaldum. Fabhino is on 13 so not so bad really.

Up front both are pretty settled with Sterling at 22 and Aguero 18. Jesus has 20 but we'd all agree he's not first pick. Firmino has played all 22 and Mane 21 with Salah on 19.

So this isn't to take away from Liverpool and don't buy into this everyone else is weak. We have been more hampered by injury, that's 100% true, BUT still should have done better in games where it's there for the taking.
		
Click to expand...

Good stattage, Amanda.

Again, there is perspective.

Otamendi and/or Stones might have been fit for all of the 24 games (or most of them in Otamendi's case), but instead of playing Otamendi pep chose to weaken his midfield instead by playing Fernandinho there instead.

Jurgen has coached all of our players into better players and a better team, as a unit.

Would you agree if I said that Mendy has regressed since at City, Walker (some good, some bad), Stones hasnt been the player he was at Everton and he has less defending to do, Otamendi has probably had 1 good season in 3 (or is it 4). Where is the coaching, or can Pep only coach midfielders and forwards into better players (I'll give him that).

Its hard to for me to agree about injuries when you have had 30 and 50 mill centre halves available that dont play, whereas look at our injuries in that dept, where we were down to only 2 fit ones, and also had to bring a loanee back, albeit just for one game.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 23, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Can all the people who think the P/L is not weak come up with an argument to how they thing it is strong.
It’s alright having an opinion but it needs backing up.
#easypeesypremierleaguey
		
Click to expand...

Yep, some different fella on sky said so.

See post 8733, go on give me a well constructed argument back.........


----------



## Captainron (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, some different fella on sky said so.

See post 8733, go on give me a well constructed argument back.........
		
Click to expand...

Premier league is strong. Good gauge is European leagues.
champions league 4/4 made it through.
Last winners..... etc
anyone who suggests that the PL is weak is incorrect


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 23, 2020)

Choo Choo The Klopp express rolls on............Wolves away is a tough game they're a very good side but again our mentality shone through. 

Henderson and Allison were top draw, the latter making pivotal saves. We lose that game with mignolet in goal.

27pts


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 23, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			This hits the nail firmly on the head, for me KDB has been massive, Mahrez has come of age. Aguero has as many goals at top flight football as Shearer and is on fire. Players underperforming others smashing it.
		
Click to expand...

No space for Sane, then?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 23, 2020)

Captainron said:



			Premier league is strong. Good gauge is European leagues.
champions league 4/4 made it through.
Last winners..... etc
anyone who suggests that the PL is weak is incorrect
		
Click to expand...

It's only weak because its Liverpool top, the hatred,bias and jealousy is having a massive  affect on their opinion. 

I'm loving it, long may it continue.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 23, 2020)

Captainron said:



			Premier league is strong. Good gauge is European leagues.
champions league 4/4 made it through.
Last winners..... etc
anyone who suggests that the PL is weak is incorrect
		
Click to expand...

Do you work for Sky?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 23, 2020)

Nobody is suggesting the PL is weak, what I believe some might be saying or trying, is that THIS season some of the “big” clubs are struggling and the PL is not as competitive as recent years.

That in no way is a reflection on LPool, they are on a completely different level to everyone else this season and even if the “big” clubs weren’t under performing I still believe LPool would be in the same position.

So if you take LPool out of the question, nobody else (including City) are doing anything special, City, Chelsea, Spurs, Utd & Arsenal are all struggling compared to what we’d normally expect for various reasons.

Look at the Spanish League and how Barca and RM have dominated it and European Football for years, it still wasn’t as strong as the PL.

You can do the same with Bayern or Juve etc.

The PL is in no way a weak league, but this season has seen a lot of strange results and inconsistencies apart from LPool.

Hopefully next season we’ll have more teams at a more consistent level and we may go back to a top 6 fighting for 4 CL spaces , another 3-4 fighting for the EL space.

Right now we have 1 team walking the PL, 3 fighting for 2nd and possibly 8 or 9 still within a shout of 4th spot and some of that 8 or 9 could end up near the relegation positions.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 23, 2020)

Anyway, the big story of the night is the Wirral wonders.

Bring on United, Mersey clipper and the Sportsman will be, erm, welcoming.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Anyway, the big story of the night is the Wirral wonders.

Bring on United, Mersey clipper and the Sportsman will be, erm, welcoming.
		
Click to expand...

Forgot that was tonight. Get in Tranmere


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Nobody is suggesting the PL is weak, what I believe some might be saying or trying, is that THIS season some of the “big” clubs are struggling and the PL is not as competitive as recent years.

That in no way is a reflection on LPool, they are on a completely different level to everyone else this season and even if the “big” clubs weren’t under performing I still believe LPool would be in the same position.

So if you take LPool out of the question, nobody else (including City) are doing anything special, City, Chelsea, Spurs, Utd & Arsenal are all struggling compared to what we’d normally expect for various reasons.

Look at the Spanish League and how Barca and RM have dominated it and European Football for years, it still wasn’t as strong as the PL.

You can do the same with Bayern or Juve etc.

The PL is in no way a weak league, but this season has seen a lot of strange results and inconsistencies apart from LPool.

Hopefully next season we’ll have more teams at a more consistent level and we may go back to a top 6 fighting for 4 CL spaces , another 3-4 fighting for the EL space.

Right now we have 1 team walking the PL, 3 fighting for 2nd and possibly 8 or 9 still within a shout of 4th spot and some of that 8 or 9 could end up near the relegation positions.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on, except the first line, some are suggesting its weak, or not as competitive, when IMO its more competitive than ever, just that the title race isnt.


----------



## Bazzatron (Jan 23, 2020)

Champions always find a way to grind it out. Never minded Liverpool, six european cups between us, so a lot of similarities. Enjoy it.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, some different fella on sky said so.

See post 8733, go on give me a well constructed argument back.........
		
Click to expand...

That was last season and Spurs,Utd,Arsenal,City and Chelsea have all gone backwards since.
This year the premier league is weak imo and I’m sticking with it.
Bored to death to be honest with arguing the toss with you.
Just enjoy this season I’m sure next season will be tougher.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 23, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Champions always find a way to grind it out. Never minded Liverpool, six european cups between us, so a lot of similarities. Enjoy it.
		
Click to expand...

You have given us probably 2 out of our hardest 3 games this season. Not much in either game, I think if you werent in the Europa, you may even be in 4th place at the moment, or a lot closer to Chelsea than currently.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, some different fella on sky said so.

See post 8733, go on give me a well constructed argument back.........
		
Click to expand...

That was last season and Spurs,Utd,Arsenal,City and Chelsea have all gone backwards since.
This year the premier league is weak imo and I’m sticking with it.
Bored to death to be honest with arguing the toss with you.
Just enjoy this season I’m sure next season will be tougher.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Spot on, except the first line, some are suggesting its weak, or not as competitive, when IMO its more competitive than ever, just that the title race isnt.
		
Click to expand...

The only way I think you could argue it’s more competitive is due to some teams dropping down a level or 2, not other teams upping their game.

You always get 1 or 2 outsiders having a good season challenging the Europa spots, but to get 5 of the big 6 being so inconsistent/struggling is not the norm.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 23, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			That was last season and Spurs,Utd,Arsenal,City and Chelsea have all gone backwards since.
This year the premier league is weak imo and I’m sticking with it.
Bored to death to be honest with arguing the toss with you.
Just enjoy this season I’m sure next season will be tougher.
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure your arguments will get better, as well.


----------



## Bazzatron (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			You have given us probably 2 out of our hardest 3 games this season. Not much in either game, I think if you werent in the Europa, you may even be in 4th place at the moment, or a lot closer to Chelsea than currently.
		
Click to expand...

2 to 3 players short I think. Next year is massive. Got to keep a hold of the big lads.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 23, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			2 to 3 players short I think. Next year is massive. Got to keep a hold of the big lads.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, if we were to sign a CF to give Bobby back up, I would fancy Werner or Raul Jimenez (as he is premiership proven).


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, if we were to sign a CF to give Bobby back up, I would fancy Werner or Raul Jimenez (as he is premiership proven).
		
Click to expand...

I think we do need a goalscorer that takes some of the many chances we make.
But are they going to watch from the bench as Firmino is the link from midfield.?
The front three miss chances galore.
A lot of recent games should have been over by half time.
But we have a steely mentality now . Wolves played very well second half and were unlucky.
But any team with pace always has a chance. 
Thought we deserved the win ,just .


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 23, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think we do need a goalscorer that takes some of the many chances we make.
But are they going to watch from the bench as Firmino is the link from midfield.?
The front three miss chances galore.
A lot of recent games should have been over by half time.
But we have a steely mentality now . Wolves played very well second half and were unlucky.
But any team with pace always has a chance.
Thought we deserved the win ,just .
		
Click to expand...

I think a draw was fair.

Mo is being too greedy at times, should have played Minamino and the Ox in at least.

We could do with cover for Bobby, as a squad game, and if a player has faith in his own ability he may still get attracted to come.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 23, 2020)

I used to think the situation i\at Liverpool was similar to Spurs in regards having one unquestionable first choice striker. Firmino obviously works perfect for Liverpool, but I think there are times during his barren spells where a sub could make a case for the position if they came in and did well, unlike at spurs where Kane will always be first choice as he doesn’t really have the runs without goals that allow some fans to get a little restless.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 24, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think a draw was fair.

Mo is being too greedy at times, should have played Minamino and the Ox in at least.

We could do with cover for Bobby, as a squad game, and if a player has faith in his own ability he may still get attracted to come.
		
Click to expand...

Wolves were unlucky to lose .
But I try and think if we scored all our clear chances and they scored all theirs , we would have won anyway.
We have won games by one goal a lot , but have created so many clear chances most should have been over by half time.
There were lots of times tonight we had nobody in the box , Firmino is not a CF for me, he spend most time as a #10.
He’s brilliant at it ,but sometimes we need a sniffer in the box.
But a win is a win .


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 24, 2020)

4LEX said:



			This is a really bad season in terms of quality of the top sides, it has to be said.

Chelsea are rebuilding with a young team and novice manager. Spurs are suffering for not signing players in the previous years, failing to sort contracts out and changing managers. Arsenal are a trainwreck and have a total novice in charge. Man Utd have a proven failure of a manager in charge and a CEO who can't sign players even with the biggest budget in the world. All four will have their lowest points tally in years at the end of the season. Leicester are a well run club with a good side and manager but they'd be blown away by any top side, just like they were by City and Liverpool lately.

You can't take anything away from Liverpool because City are an amazing side and Liverpool's points total is actually laughably good. I just think the way City have crumbled in certain games despite playing really well has made this season almost too easy for Liverpool. The title is 99% sorted and it's January. After waiting so long I don't even think the most ardent Liverpool fan expected it to be this easy! Totally deserved and a class apart from the average Chelsea side of 09/10, United 10/11, City 11/12 and United 12/13.

As for Man Utd......it was good to see Ed Woodward being targeted last night. He's the man responsible for this mess 100%. The Glazers have pulled off a business masterplan and no one can touch them. While they're using the club to service/pay off the leveraged debt they've still invested massive amounts in wages and transfer fees. The man charged with spending it has frittered almost all of it. The second biggest wage bill in the world, a transfer spend of £750m odd since 2013 and the results are abysmal. Since then they've only finished in the Top 4 twice. The bottom line is Ole isn't a very good manager and Woodward isn't fit for the job. If both remain in place failure is guarenteed. In the summer he lost Lukaku, Herrara, and Sanchez and failed to replace any of them. In this window he's embarrassed himself over the Fernandes move. Man Utd talk about building for the future but if that's the case why haven't they signed Sancho who is unsettled or snapped up Haaland who was available from a small club for £20m? For £120m you'd then have a world class front three of Rashford, Haaland and Sancho with an average age of 21 and their best years ahead of them.
		
Click to expand...

This is the real world, not Football Manager on the PC.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Wolves were unlucky to lose .
But I try and think if we scored all our clear chances and they scored all theirs , we would have won anyway.
We have won games by one goal a lot , but have created so many clear chances most should have been over by half time.
There were lots of times tonight we had nobody in the box , Firmino is not a CF for me, he spend most time as a #10.
He’s brilliant at it ,but sometimes we need a sniffer in the box.
But a win is a win .
		
Click to expand...

We'd have to change our style if we had a box striker. While Bobby doesnt score loads he's scored 5 winners this season, make us 10 points better off than were we couldve been if not for him. 

Get Mo scoring again would be good.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 24, 2020)

Meaningless bit of fun! Not to be taken seriously, just found it interesting.

2 Tables below are how the PL would look if results were based on 1st half and 2nd half scores:

Wolves & Everton need to talk.


----------



## Slime (Jan 24, 2020)

.................. and now it appears United won't pay meet Sporting's valuation of Fernandes!
It's only been rumbling on for about seven months and they've finally made this decision.
United really are a crock of Glazer.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 24, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			No space for Sane, then? 

Click to expand...

might be when he has recovered from injury and is fit 👍


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 24, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			That was last season and Spurs,Utd,Arsenal,City and Chelsea have all gone backwards since.
This year the premier league is weak imo and I’m sticking with it.
Bored to death to be honest with arguing the toss with you.
*Just enjoy this season I’m sure next season will be tougher.*

How do you know that😳. last season they were unlucky to lose to a City team that went on a similar run that Liverpool are now on or should I say have bettered. Yet they have found this season easier  BY virtue of points, not harder.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 24, 2020)

Of course they have found it easier the league is weaker 
Of course I don’t know but I can safely say the so called top teams will be better next year.
And we stood here all day picking holes in people’s predictions it would be a pretty sad life to lead.


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 24, 2020)

Slime said:



			.................. and now it appears United won't pay meet Sporting's valuation of Fernandes!
It's only been rumbling on for about seven months and they've finally made this decision.
United really are a crock of Glazer.
		
Click to expand...

He’s not worth that fee. There’s a reason he wasn’t purchased for less last summer.


----------



## Junior (Jan 24, 2020)

Fernandes is the best player in Portugal by a country mile.  Get him in.  Are we going to be a "big" club or not ?   Our squad is simply awful right now and needs world class players.  Whoever we get we'll have to pay a fortune for anyway. 

I'd also get Cavani , he's 32 but experience is a good thing and he would do a job upfront.  He's just handed in a transfer request at PSG too. Apparently we're in the hunt for him along with Chelsea


----------



## 4LEX (Jan 24, 2020)

Woodward has lost his bottle with signings. He's been burnt by big buys and he's been burnt by older players on sky high wages. He's now at the point he's scared to make a bold move and is trying to avoid big agent fees and is essentialy bargain hunting with players in the 20-25 age as they're assets and have resell value.

Ighalo and Slimini have been linked on loan


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2020)

Junior said:



			Fernandes is the best player in Portugal by a country mile.  Get him in.  Are we going to be a "big" club or not ?   Our squad is simply awful right now and needs world class players.  Whoever we get we'll have to pay a fortune for anyway.

I'd also get Cavani , he's 32 but experience is a good thing and he would do a job upfront.  He's just handed in a transfer request at PSG too. Apparently we're in the hunt for him along with Chelsea
		
Click to expand...

I don’t know what the price is for Fernandes but I’m surprised if he is that good other teams aren’t going mad for him - but I think and only going by the small amount seen of him it’s possible that it’s a case of big fish little pond and if the price is silly then it’s risky , if they asking for £80mil now that’s a big price and suspect there is a good number of players around going for cheaper than that - Neves , Maddison , Grealish for example 

Cavani at 31 is still a superb player and if available then there are a number of clubs that should be all over him - he is going to be big wages though and I’m not sure if he fancies the Premier League now - brilliant player though


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 24, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don’t know what the price is for Fernandes but I’m surprised if he is that good other teams aren’t going mad for him - but I think and only going by the small amount seen of him it’s possible that it’s a case of big fish little pond and if the price is silly then it’s risky , if they asking for £80mil now that’s a big price and suspect there is a good number of players around going for cheaper than that - Neves , Maddison , Grealish for example

Cavani at 31 is still a superb player and if available then there are a number of clubs that should be all over him - he is going to be big wages though and I’m not sure if he fancies the Premier League now - brilliant player though
		
Click to expand...

What planet are you living on.
Do you seriously believe Villa would sell Grealish in this transfer window in the position they are in.
Delusional 
Stick to Hockey Phil it’s what you know best.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I *don’t know what the price is for Fernandes but I’m surprised if he is that good other teams aren’t going mad for him *- but I think and only going by the small amount seen of him it’s possible that it’s a case of big fish little pond and if the price is silly then it’s risky , if they asking for £80mil now that’s a big price and suspect there is a good number of players around going for cheaper than that - Neves , Maddison , Grealish for example

Cavani at 31 is still a superb player and if available then there are a number of clubs that should be all over him - he is going to be big wages though and I’m not sure if he fancies the Premier League now - brilliant player though
		
Click to expand...

Disagree there Phil, just because other teams arent going for him doesnt mean he's not a quality player. I dont remember big clubs being in for Salah,Mane,Fabinho, Origi.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Disagree there Phil, just because other teams arent going for him doesnt mean he's not a quality player. I dont remember big clubs being in for Salah,Mane,Fabinho, Origi.
		
Click to expand...

Well UTD were after Fabinho , both Mo and Mane weren’t at high prices and neither were all over the media being touted like Fernandes has been since the summer , neither were they ripping up trees in regards stats 

There have been lots of talk about Fernandes with even us included in the mix , so someone is desperate to move him imo ( club and agent ) - got a small bite in the summer with Spurs having a go but rejected and now trying to land the big fee. 

Not saying he is a bad player and i suspect if going for the same fee as Mane and Mo etc then it’s going to be a player you would take a punt at - but £80mil ?! He was available at £50mil in the summer


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well UTD were after Fabinho , both Mo and Mane weren’t at high prices and neither were all over the media being touted like Fernandes has been since the summer , neither were they ripping up trees in regards stats

There have been lots of talk about Fernandes with even us included in the mix , so someone is desperate to move him imo ( club and agent ) - got a small bite in the summer with Spurs having a go but rejected and now trying to land the big fee.

Not saying he is a bad player and i suspect if going for the same fee as Mane and Mo etc then it’s going to be a player you would take a punt at - but £80mil ?! He was available at £50mil in the summer
		
Click to expand...

The point stands, just because other big teams arent in for them it doesn't make them bad players.

Yernited are in a position were they're desperate so the price is being hiked. 

I quite like the idea Woodward is not being held to ransom. It's easy for these internet managers screaming "just pay the money", the club whose  next player they want will do exactly the same. 

Stick to hockey Phil 🤭🤭🤭


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2020)

Anyway, its FA Cup 4th round weekend, to Evertonians it's just another weekend 🤭🤭 😉 looking forward to seeing the young lads getting a game.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			The point stands, just because other big teams arent in for them it doesn't make them bad players.

Yernited are in a position were they're desperate so the price is being hiked.

I quite like the idea Woodward is not being held to ransom. It's easy for these internet managers screaming "just pay the money", the club whose  next player they want will do exactly the same.

*Stick to hockey Phil 🤭🤭🤭*

Click to expand...

😂

Didn’t say he was a bad player - just not a £80mil plus player but they are desperate. 
If he is that good then and worth that much when looking at his stats that someone would pick him up at the £50mil they could have got him for in the summer. 

And I don’t think it’s Woodward this time - it seems it’s one of the Glazers who don’t think he is worth it ?

Either way they could be having the same issues we had for years - players want that regular CL footy , hence why you see rumours of a Leicester flop and a Watford striker who went to China


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 24, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Anyway, its FA Cup 4th round weekend, to Evertonians it's just another weekend 🤭🤭 😉 looking forward to seeing the young lads getting a game.
		
Click to expand...

Got my ticket to west ham Vs west brom

First game at the bowl this season 

My wife may have to drop out last min as she's unwell but got a replacement lined up

Looking forward to getting out .. of the cup lol


----------



## 4LEX (Jan 24, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			The point stands, just because other big teams arent in for them it doesn't make them bad players.

Yernited are in a position were they're desperate so the price is being hiked.

I quite like the idea Woodward is not being held to ransom. It's easy for these internet managers screaming "just pay the money", the club whose  next player they want will do exactly the same.

Stick to hockey Phil 🤭🤭🤭
		
Click to expand...

To be fair it's impossible not to be held to ransom when any selling club sees they pay Martial £220k a week and Luke Shaw is the highest paid full back in the world. It's too late to appear prudent and clued up. It'll either be pay over the odds but make sure the player delivers or take chances on cut price signings or younger players and accept essentially being Arsenal.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 24, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂

Didn’t say he was a bad player - *just not a £80mil plus player* but they are desperate.
If he is that good then and worth that much when looking at his stats that someone would pick him up at the £50mil they could have got him for in the summer.

And I don’t think it’s Woodward this time - it seems it’s one of the Glazers who don’t think he is worth it ?

Either way they could be having the same issues we had for years - players want that regular CL footy , hence why you see rumours of a Leicester flop and a Watford striker who went to China
		
Click to expand...

Neither was Maguire and he's captain now 😂😂


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 24, 2020)

So that’s how we gauge how good a player is/going to be.
By the number of clubs that the press have reported to have shown interest in him?
suppose it all depends on which club are involved 😂


----------



## Fish (Jan 24, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Anyway, the big story of the night is the Wirral wonders.

Bring on United, Mersey clipper and the Sportsman will be, erm, welcoming.
		
Click to expand...

Lots of chatter about old school boys all coming out to see how fast united can run......If Utd try and do there normal trick by getting into a pub nearby early en masse thinking their safe, I’ll bet odds on they'll all get mullered!

 and then Shrewsbury have some very tough & naughty lads that’ll be looking for some Scalps. I’ve met & travelled with some Shrewsbury lads, they’re madder than a mad mans madman 🤪


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 24, 2020)

Fish said:



			Lots of chatter about old school boys all coming out to see how fast united can run......If Utd try and do there normal trick by getting into a pub nearby early en masse thinking their safe, I’ll bet odds on they'll all get mullered!

and then Shrewsbury have some very tough & naughty lads that’ll be looking for some Scalps. I’ve met & travelled with some Shrewsbury lads, they’re madder than a mad mans madman 🤪
		
Click to expand...

Birkenhead town centre is only down the road, and where some fans try and go, or in the Prenton park, but its Tranmere's cup final, and there is always a few Scousers who take an interest shall we say.

I went to Shrewsburys old ground in the FA cup years ago, had a few bevvies in the town, dont recall much happening.


----------



## Slime (Jan 24, 2020)

My head wants Utd to crush Tranmere, but my heart wants United to crush Tranmere in a replay.
It'd mean so much, financially, for Tranmere to get a game at Old Trafford and it'd be the highlight of some of the players' careers..


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			We'd have to change our style if we had a box striker. While Bobby doesnt score loads he's scored 5 winners this season, make us 10 points better off than were we couldve been if not for him.

Get Mo scoring again would be good.
		
Click to expand...

I still think there is something wrong with Mo. And not just his finishing.
He seems to have lost some pace.
as for Bobby , you can’t argue with were we are and how we set up.
But we were talking about back up for him not replacing him.


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 25, 2020)

Just want to congratulate everyone on the milestone of reaching page 4-4-2.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 25, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Just want to congratulate everyone on the milestone of reaching page 4-4-2. 

Click to expand...

Wait until we get to page 5-3-1-1.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 25, 2020)

Fish said:



			Lots of chatter about old school boys all coming out to see how fast united can run......If Utd try and do there normal trick by getting into a pub nearby early en masse thinking their safe, I’ll bet odds on they'll all get mullered!

and then Shrewsbury have some very tough & naughty lads that’ll be looking for some Scalps. I’ve met & travelled with some Shrewsbury lads, they’re madder than a mad mans madman 🤪
		
Click to expand...

Yerniteds lot will be safe hiding behind the usual MP escort.


----------



## Fish (Jan 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yerniteds lot will be safe hiding behind the usual MP escort.
		
Click to expand...

I reckon they tip them off themselves so they get wrapped up, they can then sing and shout at Tranmere hiding behind plod.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 25, 2020)

Slime said:



			My head wants Utd to crush Tranmere, but my heart wants United to crush Tranmere in a replay.
It'd mean so much, financially, for Tranmere to get a game at Old Trafford and it'd be the highlight of some of the players' careers..
		
Click to expand...

Or If Tranmere don’t beat them they will never live it down. 🤔😁


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 25, 2020)

Looks like Utd fans are planning a walkout during the Wolves game. That usually happens don’t it. Will anyone notice any differance.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 25, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Looks like Utd fans are planning a walkout during the Wolves game. That usually happens don’t it. Will anyone notice any differance.
		
Click to expand...

That’s brilliant coming from a supporter who’s club can’t fill their ground enough to recognise a walkout.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 25, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			That’s brilliant coming from a supporter who’s club can’t fill their ground enough to recognise a walkout.
		
Click to expand...

Last season Citys was 98% full, the swamp was 99%. Wherw as during the game 🥴 the swamp emptied


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 25, 2020)

Fish said:



			I reckon they tip them off themselves so they get wrapped up, they can then sing and shout at Tranmere hiding behind plod.
		
Click to expand...

Another trait they have in common with Everton😁


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Another trait they have in common with Everton😁
		
Click to expand...

Or follow you crazy reds and shout at a bus whilst throwing beer at it and letting off pyro.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 25, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Last season Citys was 98% full, the swamp was 99%. Wherw as during the game 🥴 the swamp emptied
		
Click to expand...

98% tickets sold or bums on seats?


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			98% tickets sold or bums on seats?

Click to expand...

Think that's for all stadiums 😁


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 25, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Think that's for all stadiums 😁
		
Click to expand...

That’s not an answer.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Or follow you crazy reds and shout at a bus whilst throwing beer at it and letting off pyro. 

Click to expand...

FFS where only trying to be different😉


----------



## Fish (Jan 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			That’s not an answer. 

Click to expand...

Yes it is, many season ticket holders don’t go to every game, so stadiums can look empty, but those empty seats have been paid for, so what you visibly see is not what your suggesting, in that, City, or any club can’t sell all their tickets because you can see empty seats, when the reality is, they possibly have, or at least a lot more than you can judge from your armchair 😜


----------



## Fish (Jan 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Or follow you crazy reds and shout at a bus whilst throwing beer at it and letting off pyro. 

Click to expand...

At least that’s more open and transparent than sneaking up on folk in packs in the Stanley Park car park and Judasing them 😡


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 25, 2020)

Fish said:



			Yes it is, many season ticket holders don’t go to every game, so stadiums can look empty, but those empty seats have been paid for, so what you visibly see is not what your suggesting, in that, City, or any club can’t sell all their tickets because you can see empty seats, when the reality is, they possibly have, or at least a lot more than you can judge from your armchair 😜
		
Click to expand...

Remember last season when the stadium announcer at Arsenal annouced the official attendance as 62,152 and it was 3/4 empty ALL game 😂


----------



## Fish (Jan 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Remember last season when the stadium announcer at Arsenal annouced the official attendance as 62,152 and it was 3/4 empty ALL game 😂
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think Arsenal are the exception to the rule, as they are with most things, that’s north Londonistan for you 😏


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 25, 2020)

I think announcing the attendance is a premiership requirement, not a club one, and it is based on ticket sales.

As for the Arsenal game mentioned above, that was at a really bad time for the fans, and they stayed away in protest / total indifference. If they had returned the tickets for resale, the point would have been lost.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 25, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			I think announcing the attendance is a premiership requirement, not a club one, and it is based on ticket sales.

As for the Arsenal game mentioned above, that was at a really bad time for the fans, and they stayed away in protest / total indifference. If they had returned the tickets for resale, the point would have been lost.
		
Click to expand...

I think fans staging protests like that are spot on. When it's done to make a point. 

I don't agree with those that have a season ticket as a status thing though. Either support the club through think and thin, or give up your seat and let a fan who wants to be there buy it. Obviously people will miss games on odd ocassions, but some clubs have "fans" that only turn up for the big games. That's not on imo.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 25, 2020)

Fish said:



			Yes it is, many season ticket holders don’t go to every game, so stadiums can look empty, but those empty seats have been paid for, so what you visibly see is not what your suggesting, in that, City, or any club can’t sell all their tickets because you can see empty seats, when the reality is, they possibly have, or at least a lot more than you can judge from your armchair 😜
		
Click to expand...

No it’s not, he wasn’t asked about the official attendance, he was asked about empty seats.
I’m fully aware what figures are published and the difference in who actually turns up.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			No it’s not, he wasn’t asked about the official attendance, he was asked about empty seats.
I’m fully aware what figures are published and the difference in who actually turns up.

Click to expand...

There’s no right or wrong answer Paul. I sit in the family stand, and I think we are the only family in there. City state ( or an independent source where I got 98% from) that for last season the champions sold 98 % of all seats. Now I know that my 3 seats were used every game. If not by me by family or very good friends.  But seats around me have been empty and Not always the same seats. They are held by season ticket holders, but don’t get to games but are “ sold”.
Now here’s the complicated bits. If I do not go to a game I can release tickets to the club and if they sell them I get £20 odd quid back or £7 for young Bradley Tash. They flog them for owt from £50 upwards and I get a percentage back. The away fans get 4,500 ish tickets. Utd, Liverpool, and a few other top clubs sell there quota.Bournemouth come in a mini bus.So City sell there tickets to the City fans.  Now City can sell them tickets for £50 upwards and not give owt back to me/ the fans. So which tickets will they sell first. Hence why there is always empty seats especially against lower clubs.
Now what is another factor is kick off times. Over the Xmas and new year period, Citye played four games at home and the kick off times were 5.30, 5.30, 6.00 and 5.31. All for TV. Quite frankly it was purgatory.
City to there credit actually sent an email out to all season ticket holders stating that they knew which fans were picking and choosing which top games they wanted to go to and not bothering with the rest. But not releasing seats to other fans. They were warned if they did not inform the club that they were not attending X number of games they could not renew at the end of this season.
As I have said before I had had a belly full of VAR, kick off times changing for tv, so this is my last season of holding a ST. I will just stick to cup games. So we there will be 3 empty seats more next year.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 25, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			There’s no right or wrong answer Paul. I sit in the family stand, and I think we are the only family in there. City state ( or an independent source where I got 98% from) that for last season the champions sold 98 % of all seats. Now I know that my 3 seats were used every game. If not by me by family or very good friends.  Ut seats around me have been empty and. Or always the same seats. They are held by season ticket holders, but don’t get to games but are “ sold”.
Now here’s the complicated bits. If I do not go to a game I can release tickets to the club and if they sell them I get £20 odd quid back or £7 for young Bradley Tash. They flog them for owt from £50 upwards and I get a percentage back. The away fans get 4,500 ish tickets. Utd, Liverpool, and a few other top clubs sell there quota.Bournemouth come in a mini bus.So City sell there tickets to the City fans.  Now City can sell them tickets for £50 upwards and not give owt back to me/ the fans. So which tickets will they sell first. Hence why there is always empty seats especially against lower clubs.
Now what is another factor is kick off times. Over the Xmas and new year period, Citye played four games at home and the kick off times were 5.30, 5.30, 6.00 and 5.31. All for TV. Quite frankly it was purgatory.
City to there credit actually sent an email out to all season ticket holders stating that they knew which fans were picking and choosing which top games they wanted to go to and not bothering with the rest. But not releasing seats to other fans. They were warned if they did not inform the club that they were not attending X number of games they could not renew at the end of this season.
As I have said before I had had a belly full of VAR, kick off times changing for tv, so this is my last season of holding a ST. I will just stick to cup games. So we there will be 3 empty seats more next year.
		
Click to expand...

Mate, we’ve had this discussion before, every club reports attendance based on tickets sold rather than those that turn up.

Tony was pointing out the irony of a City fan calling out Utd when your ground is known as the Emptyhad.

Quoting 98% is smoke and mirrors as you well know.


----------



## Beezerk (Jan 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Mate, we’ve had this discussion before, every club reports attendance based on tickets sold rather than those that turn up.
		
Click to expand...

Apparently Sunderland have been getting around 32,000 regularly this season...


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Mate, we’ve had this discussion before, every club reports attendance based on tickets sold rather than those that turn up.

Tony was pointing out the irony of a City fan calling out Utd when your ground is known as the Emptyhad.

Quoting 98% is smoke and mirrors as you well know. 

Click to expand...

The irony was not lost on me when I posted it. The very fact a City fan mentioned it made myself chuckle. You gotta understand that for decades Citeh fans have been at the brunt of most of Utds little jokes and digs. Quite nice to give just a little back now and then. Not saying it’s sweeter,  but certainly saying there now walking in a pair of City’s crap shoes from the 70’s, 80’s,90’s, 00’s. Am sure one day those crap shoes will be back on my feet but it’s good to have a bit of banter. As long as that’s all it is. Banter.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 25, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			There’s no right or wrong answer Paul. I sit in the family stand, and I think we are the only family in there. City state ( or an independent source where I got 98% from) that for last season the champions sold 98 % of all seats. Now I know that my 3 seats were used every game. If not by me by family or very good friends.  Ut seats around me have been empty and. Or always the same seats. They are held by season ticket holders, but don’t get to games but are “ sold”.
Now here’s the complicated bits. If I do not go to a game I can release tickets to the club and if they sell them I get £20 odd quid back or £7 for young Bradley Tash. They flog them for owt from £50 upwards and I get a percentage back. The away fans get 4,500 ish tickets. Utd, Liverpool, and a few other top clubs sell there quota.Bournemouth come in a mini bus.So City sell there tickets to the City fans.  Now City can sell them tickets for £50 upwards and not give owt back to me/ the fans. So which tickets will they sell first. Hence why there is always empty seats especially against lower clubs.
Now what is another factor is kick off times. Over the Xmas and new year period, Citye played four games at home and the kick off times were 5.30, 5.30, 6.00 and 5.31. All for TV. Quite frankly it was purgatory.
City to there credit actually sent an email out to all season ticket holders stating that they knew which fans were picking and choosing which top games they wanted to go to and not bothering with the rest. But not releasing seats to other fans. They were warned if they did not inform the club that they were not attending X number of games they could not renew at the end of this season.
As I have said before I had had a belly full of VAR, kick off times changing for tv, so this is my last season of holding a ST. I will just stick to cup games. So we there will be 3 empty seats more next year.
		
Click to expand...

So it’s pretty much just excuses for the fact that despite all the top players and managers and looking to be a top club - you can’t fill your stadium week in week out. City are succesful because of those Telly games changing , that global attraction to the premier league is what attracted the owners to buy the club and pile all the money into - those kick off times changing are key to the money coming in - you can complain about it but I bet you don’t mind the financial rewards from it that help pay for the likes of Aguero and KDB


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 25, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Apparently Sunderland have been getting around 32,000 regularly this season...

Click to expand...

Thats nowt, when City beat Utd 5-1 at Maine rd in the 80’s. There were 3,240,267 fans went and still counting. 🤔😁👍


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 25, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So it’s pretty much just excuses for the fact that despite all the top players and managers and looking to be a top club - you can’t fill your stadium week in week out. City are succesful because of those Telly games changing , that global attraction to the premier league is what attracted the owners to buy the club and pile all the money into - those kick off times changing are key to the money coming in - you can complain about it but I bet you don’t mind the *financial rewards from it that help pay for the likes of Aguero and KDB*

Click to expand...

I thought it was “oil money” that’s funded all those players 😉


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I thought it was “oil money” that’s funded all those players 😉
		
Click to expand...

Oil money is at the end of the train 😀 the Prem money and the global appeal helps attract the oil money. 

Either way whilst it’s got to be frustrating the amount of differing telly times ( and they are going to hit a limit ) - it’s hard to bite the hand that feeds it all.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 25, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Oil money is at the end of the train 😀 the Prem money and the global appeal helps attract the oil money.

*Either way whilst it’s got to be frustrating the amount of differing telly times* ( and they are going to hit a limit ) - it’s hard to bite the hand that feeds it all.
		
Click to expand...

Frustrating is the word...

One of the many irritations of modern football, my biggest gripe is the utter contempt shown to ALL match going football fans with regards to KO times.    

8pm Boxing Day and 8pm New Years Eve when public transport is already reduced, midweek 8:15pm ko’s, 8pm kick offs away at Southampton for northern teams etc it needs to change.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Frustrating is the word...

One of the many irritations of modern football, my biggest gripe is the utter contempt shown to ALL match going football fans with regards to KO times.   

8pm Boxing Day and 8pm New Years Eve when public transport is already reduced, midweek 8:15pm ko’s, 8pm kick offs away at Southampton for northern teams etc it needs to change.
		
Click to expand...

Oh I get it but I believe the impact of the kick off to fans going is very much down their list of priorities- the majority of the viewing market is abroad and that brings in billions 

All it takes at times is just a bit of common sense thinking


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 25, 2020)

FA cup is just as bad. MNF for Arsenal and Bournmouth. It is rubbish.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Frustrating is the word...

One of the many irritations of modern football, my biggest gripe is the utter contempt shown to ALL match going football fans with regards to KO times.   

8pm Boxing Day and 8pm New Years Eve when public transport is already reduced, midweek 8:15pm ko’s, 8pm kick offs away at Southampton for northern teams etc it needs to change.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but that’s what oil money gets you, oh er hang on that’s me. 😁. Me Point is we take young. Bradley Tash to games, he has a season ticket, young Layla Tash is 4, she loves Tony’s stadium chippy, Mary Dees, face painting and Moonbeam, she has green ears not blue. Anyway how can I take her to games at 6 and 8 with a two hour drive home. 
 So next season I will trade off watching the game at home and having a lesser opinion as a Sky TV fan than being a proper match going fan. 😁👍


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Frustrating is the word...

One of the many irritations of modern football, my biggest gripe is the utter contempt shown to ALL match going football fans with regards to KO times.   

8pm Boxing Day and 8pm New Years Eve when public transport is already reduced, midweek 8:15pm ko’s, 8pm kick offs away at *Southampton for northern teams* etc it needs to change.
		
Click to expand...

Typical big club mentality. 

Little ol Southampton have had 8pm kicks offs a Liverpool and Newcastle in the past


----------



## Fish (Jan 25, 2020)

Take today, 5.30 kick off, no direct trains, so most wont get back until midnight, add another hour if on a club coach.

no thought for travelling fans whatsoever.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 25, 2020)

Fish said:



			Take today, 5.30 kick off, no direct trains, so most wont get back until midnight, add another hour if on a club coach.

no thought for travelling fans whatsoever.
		
Click to expand...

I think every club has the same fans with the same problems, some probably more than others. I don’t think it is a case of ours is worse than yours. I think it is a case that every fan has a breaking point. I have reached Mine.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 25, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I think every club has the same fans with the same problems, some probably more than others. I don’t think it is a case of ours is worse than yours. *I think it is a case that every fan has a breaking point*. I have reached Mine.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on Tashy.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 25, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Typical big club mentality. 

Little ol Southampton have had 8pm kicks offs a Liverpool and Newcastle in the past 

Click to expand...

Southampton was just an example. Didnt Southampton have to travel to Newcastle midweek a few seasons ago, or was it the other way round??


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 25, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I think fans staging protests like that are spot on. When it's done to make a point.

I don't agree with those that have a season ticket as a status thing though. Either support the club through think and thin, or give up your seat and let a fan who wants to be there buy it. Obviously people will miss games on odd ocassions, but some clubs have "fans" that only turn up for the big games. That's not on imo.
		
Click to expand...

I agree in the main, but if the owners are abhorrent to the fan base (for whatever reason) and a long term boycott is in place, would always back that. I think Newcastle have done it to a point this season, but unfortunately at the well-supported clubs, there are always others who will fill the gap.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Southampton was just an example. Didnt Southampton have to travel to Newcastle midweek a few seasons ago, or was it the other way round??
		
Click to expand...

I know fella. Was only pulling ya chain. 

We've had a few. We had you guys midweek few years back too. My mate was in local paper as his kid was off school sick for two days and he'd been spotted on TV in the crowd.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 25, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I agree in the main, but if the owners are abhorrent to the fan base (for whatever reason) and a long term boycott is in place, would always back that. I think Newcastle have done it to a point this season, but unfortunately at the well-supported clubs, there are always others who will fill the gap.
		
Click to expand...

I may not have been clear. I fully support strikes, for however long it lasts. 

Just not status season ticket holders.


----------



## Beezerk (Jan 26, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Thats nowt, when City beat Utd 5-1 at Maine rd in the 80’s. There were 3,240,267 fans went and still counting. 🤔😁👍
		
Click to expand...

The same amount of season ticket holders at Newcastle and Liverpool then 🤭


----------



## Fish (Jan 26, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Southampton was just an example. Didnt Southampton have to travel to Newcastle midweek a few seasons ago, or was it the other way round??
		
Click to expand...

We had Sunderland midweek a couple of seasons ago, no trains after the match finished so we’re forced onto the roads getting back in the early hours with work the next day!

I got a train on a Saturday once to Middlesbrough with a late kick off, never again, absolute nightmare, took 6 hours to get there but again would have to leave the match 15mins early to get a connection back, so I went into the car park and poached a lift down the M1 and got picked up at Leicester Forest 30 miles away to get home.


----------



## Junior (Jan 26, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Last season Citys was 98% full, the swamp was 99%. Wherw as during the game 🥴 the swamp emptied
		
Click to expand...

Lol.......there's a reason it's called the Emptyhad me man


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 26, 2020)

Why are the City fans walking out already


----------



## MegaSteve (Jan 26, 2020)

Good to see the "magic of the cup" alive and well at Griffin Park yesterday...


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 26, 2020)

https://footyaccumulators.com/news/is-this-the-worst-ever-standard-of-premier-league-football


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 26, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1221470351348994050


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 26, 2020)

Who really cares (apart from a few on here) how many fans are in the stadium. City have always been a well supported club and were well supported during many, many barren years. Personally I have never even considered gate attendance as an indicator of how good my team is...keep doing it on the pitch and one man and his dog could watch for all I care. Is there a trophy for the most bums on seats?

I'd rather keep the core of genuine fans than attract all the hangers on who start to support due to success. Tashy may agree - still supporting through the bad times has a badge of honour. We never win at home and we never win away...

Still, if it makes you happy Phil then fill yer boots


----------



## SteveW86 (Jan 26, 2020)

Liverpool v Shrewsbury is getting interesting!

Shame about the own goal though, but what a finish!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 26, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Who really cares (apart from a few on here) how many fans are in the stadium. City have always been a well supported club and were well supported during many, many barren years. Personally I have never even considered gate attendance as an indicator of how good my team is...keep doing it on the pitch and one man and his dog could watch for all I care. Is there a trophy for the most bums on seats?

I'd rather keep the core of genuine fans than attract all the hangers on who start to support due to success. Tashy may agree - still supporting through the bad times has a badge of honour. We never win at home and we never win away...

Still, if it makes you happy Phil then fill yer boots 

Click to expand...

You are not a well supported, big club until a chunk of your fans have to fly in for a game, buy a package to get a ticket 🙄😁.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 26, 2020)

Ole gets slated for bringing Rashford on against Wolves to try and get a victory but I suspect Klopp will be the Messiah for bringing Salah and Firmino on.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 26, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



https://footyaccumulators.com/news/is-this-the-worst-ever-standard-of-premier-league-football

Click to expand...

Who writes this rubbish,it can’t be true the Liverpool contingent on here say so.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 26, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Ole gets slated for bringing Rashford on against Wolves to try and get a victory but I suspect Klopp will be the Messiah for bringing Salah and Firmino on.
		
Click to expand...

Wasn't Rashford rumoured to be nursing an injury?With said substitution being followed by the injury he has now.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 26, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1221470351348994050

Click to expand...

Slightly ironic that the person posting this would need a sat nav to find Anfield 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 26, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Wasn't Rashford rumoured to be nursing an injury?With said substitution being followed by the injury he has now.
		
Click to expand...

Yep the manager knew he had a back injury and playing him made it worse to the point he is prob out for the season


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 26, 2020)

Replay for Liverpool. Great if you are a Shrewsbury player. What an opportunity.


----------



## Slime (Jan 26, 2020)

Oh well, at least one team in red beat lower league opposition .............................. and how!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 26, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Ole gets slated for bringing Rashford on against Wolves to try and get a victory but I suspect Klopp will be the Messiah for bringing Salah and Firmino on.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure about that .
Why risk them with Mane out injured.
Great display from Shrews but they sat off us to much first half.
Deffo a game of two halves but they deserved the draw for me.
Where’s VAR when you need it,  miles better without it imo.
Lovren for the second goal is just ( lost for words).


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 26, 2020)

Fair result, a proper FA cup tie.


----------



## Fade and Die (Jan 26, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Slightly ironic that the person posting this would need a sat nav to find Anfield 🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Slightly? Try massively! 😆


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 26, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not sure about that .
Why risk them with Mane out injured.
Great display from Shrews but they sat off us to much first half.
Deffo a game of two halves but they deserved the draw for me.
*Where’s VAR when you need it,  miles better without it imo.*
Lovren for the second goal is just ( lost for words).
		
Click to expand...

But would have cancelled their penalty ?



Stuart_C said:



			Fair result, a proper FA cup tie.
		
Click to expand...

Good battle - kids certainly showed their lack of expirience and the guys returning from injury very rusty


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 26, 2020)

Slime said:



			Oh well, at least one team in red beat lower league opposition .............................. and how!
		
Click to expand...

You could win it if you play your first team in every round.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 26, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But would have cancelled their penalty ?


Good battle - kids certainly showed their lack of expirience and the guys returning from injury very rusty
		
Click to expand...

Maybe but think the way they have used it the handball by Fabinho might have been given his hand is very high.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 26, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Maybe but think the way they have used it the handball by Fabinho might have been given his hand is very high.
		
Click to expand...

And we would have had a penalty in the first half with a handball from them


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 26, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Wasn't Rashford rumoured to be nursing an injury?With said substitution being followed by the injury he has now.
		
Click to expand...

As you say “rumoured”
And as Ole has said he wasn’t injured and it actually happened against Wolves I believe him.
Not some numpty on here that thinks he knows everything.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 26, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Who really cares (apart from a few on here) how many fans are in the stadium. City have always been a well supported club and were well supported during many, many barren years. Personally I have never even considered gate attendance as an indicator of how good my team is...keep doing it on the pitch and one man and his dog could watch for all I care. Is there a trophy for the most bums on seats?

I'd rather keep the core of genuine fans than attract all the hangers on who start to support due to success. Tashy may agree - still supporting through the bad times has a badge of honour. We never win at home and we never win away...

Still, if it makes you happy Phil then fill yer boots 

Click to expand...

we lost last week and we lost today. 😁

never a truer word spoken. Thing is though, I have a lot of affection for Maine red. Yet most of my memories are of painful days travelling back over the Pennines coming home. Up average attendance was 30k five or take a couple of K. Am I bothered about golf playing tv watching jibes. Nah it’s banter. But if you had asked me a few decades ago you will win 7 out of the last 8 silverware. Oh bless yah. At the same time seeing our main rivals going tits up at the same time. All I can say is 

na na na naaaaaaaa Citeh.

City aside, just hoping that Leicester can hold on for a champs league spot 👍


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 26, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And we would have had a penalty in the first half with a handball from them
		
Click to expand...

Starting to sound like VAR is working it’s magic on us!
I can live with refs mistake .


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 26, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Starting to sound like VAR is working it’s magic on us!
I can live with refs mistake .
		
Click to expand...

VAR 99% is correcting the mistakes

The issue with VAR is the time it’s taking to sort a rule out , the way it handles offside calls that a very close - the biggest issue is also the change in the handball rule which is a mess


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 26, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			As you say “rumoured”
And as Ole has said he wasn’t injured and it actually happened against Wolves I believe him.
Not some numpty on here that thinks he knows everything.
		
Click to expand...

Tbh, if either Firmino or Salah did get injured I’d expect most people would have said the same thing. Hindsight and all that. Obviously if Rashford didn’t have a niggle then the injury is bad luck, but I’d have rather saints went out of the fa cup last night as opposed to us playing Ings...


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 26, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbh, if either Firmino or Salah did get injured I’d expect most people would have said the same thing. Hindsight and all that. Obviously if Rashford didn’t have a niggle then the injury is bad luck, but I’d have rather saints went out of the fa cup last night as opposed to us playing Ings...
		
Click to expand...

No mate got to disagree there.
Your safe in the P/L
A good cup run would be good


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 26, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			VAR 99% is correcting the mistakes

The issue with VAR is the time it’s taking to sort a rule out , the way it handles offside calls that a very close - the biggest issue is also the change in the handball rule which is a mess
		
Click to expand...

We had VAR check a pen appeal for us yesterday 

It was a quick check yes but what was bad was it was so long after the incident it would have had the play brought back almost a full minute


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 26, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You are not a well supported, big club until a chunk of your fans have to fly in for a game, buy a package to get a ticket 🙄😁.
		
Click to expand...

Or get through the tunnel from North Wales and Cheshire.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 26, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Ole gets slated for bringing Rashford on against Wolves to try and get a victory but I suspect Klopp will be the Messiah for bringing Salah and Firmino on.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, but none of them have already got a damaged spine.

Can you not see the difference, or is bitterness eating you up so much?


----------



## fundy (Jan 26, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			VAR 99% is correcting the mistakes

The issue with VAR is the time it’s taking to sort a rule out , the way it handles offside calls that a very close - the biggest issue is also the change in the handball rule which is a mess
		
Click to expand...


you think VAR is only getting 1 in 100 wrong? or do you means something else by 99% correcting mistakes there?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			you think VAR is only getting 1 in 100 wrong? or do you means something else by 99% correcting mistakes there?
		
Click to expand...

I believe VAR is correcting the mistakes the refs make - but don’t think it’s perfect and at times has got things wrong. 

Klopp just said that no senior players will play in the Replay and team will be managed for reserve team manager


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 26, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Maybe but think the way they have used it the handball by Fabinho might have been given his hand is very high.
		
Click to expand...

Fabs wasnt a pen in a million years. No reaction time, ball hit the ground and bounced up at him, and hit his following arm. Unlike their handball......

TBF though they were the better team.


----------



## fundy (Jan 26, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I believe VAR is correcting the mistakes the refs make - but don’t think it’s perfect and at times has got things wrong. 

Klopp just said that no senior players will play in the Replay and team will be managed for reserve team manager
		
Click to expand...


its correcting some and making others imo, its nowhere near 99% on any scale though

put em back in the pram Jurgen


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			its correcting some and making others imo, its nowhere near 99% on any scale though

*put em back in the pram Jurgen*

Click to expand...

Eh ?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 26, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			As you say “rumoured”
And as Ole has said he wasn’t injured and it actually happened against Wolves I believe him.
Not some numpty on here that thinks he knows everything.
		
Click to expand...

You're making things up now.

You've gone doo-lally.


----------



## fundy (Jan 26, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Eh ?
		
Click to expand...

no senior players and he wont even be bothering, sounds more like pep everyday lol


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 26, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, but none of them have already got a damaged spine.

Can you not see the difference, or is bitterness eating you up so much?
		
Click to expand...

Sorry Pete I didn’t realise you had Rashfords medical records.
My bad
Yes I’m bitter but not afraid to admit it.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 26, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Fabs wasnt a pen in a million years. No reaction time, ball hit the ground and bounced up at him, and hit his following arm. Unlike their handball......

TBF though they were the better team.
		
Click to expand...

I agree but that dosnt mean some VAR ref wouldn’t give it.
I have seen them given


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			no senior players and he wont even be bothering, sounds more like pep everyday lol
		
Click to expand...

The replay is during the Prem Winter break and it was always going to be the case if a replay was needed - the senior players were always going to have the week off to be as fresh as possible to go at the CL and league double


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			no senior players and he wont even be bothering, sounds more like pep everyday lol
		
Click to expand...

Yes ,so why risk Salah and Firmino ,Ox today ?
Seems strange.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 26, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes ,so why risk Salah and Firmino ,Ox today ?
Seems strange.
		
Click to expand...

Risked them to try and make sure they didn’t have a replay


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 26, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Sorry Pete I didn’t realise you had Rashfords medical records.
My bad
Yes I’m bitter but not afraid to admit it.
		
Click to expand...

Nothing to do with having his medical records, straight from the horses mouth:-

"Yes it backfired. You got to take them once in a while,” the Norwegian admitted.

“He'll be tested in the next few days - we have to see for Sunday. He couldn't run.

“He struggled a little bit with his back and got another knock. It didn't help."

But Solskjaer was happy that his side finally managed to overcome Wolves, who the Red Devils had failed to beat since they were promoted to the Premier League two years ago.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 26, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I agree but that dosnt mean some VAR ref wouldn’t give it.
I have seen them given
		
Click to expand...

We've all seen mad ones given, but overall that want a pen.


----------



## Slime (Jan 26, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			You could win it if you play your first team in every round.
		
Click to expand...

Hmmm, doubtful, as I don't think we actually have a first team!


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 26, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			No mate got to disagree there.
Your safe in the P/L
A good cup run would be good
		
Click to expand...

We're safe simply because of him. If he was out for rest of season like Rshfrod may be, then were right back in the battle.

I'm not sating we should put youths out, but the PL is (should) totally be the priority.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 26, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Nothing to do with having his medical records, straight from the horses mouth:-

"Yes it backfired. You got to take them once in a while,” the Norwegian admitted.

“He'll be tested in the next few days - we have to see for Sunday. He couldn't run.

“He struggled a little bit with his back and got another knock. It didn't help."

But Solskjaer was happy that his side finally managed to overcome Wolves, who the Red Devils had failed to beat since they were promoted to the Premier League two years ago.
		
Click to expand...

Damaged spine?
You’ve took 2+2 and made a hundred
Those quotes are after the Wolves game where it happened,listen to the whole interview


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			no senior players and he wont even be bothering, sounds more like pep everyday lol
		
Click to expand...

Not this time, he was told by the powers that be to respect the winter break and that’s what he’s doing.

unfortunately the PL and it’s partners won’t allow a full week with no football so we’ve ended up with a half hearted staggered break. It’s a joke in all honesty.

itll be interesting to see if the FA punish us for not fielding a full strength team....


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 26, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Risked them to try and make sure they didn’t have a replay
		
Click to expand...

CC struggles with how the modern game works.


----------



## fundy (Jan 26, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Not this time, he was told by the powers that be to respect the winter break and that’s what he’s doing.

unfortunately the PL and it’s partners won’t allow a full week with no football so we’ve ended up with a half hearted staggered break. It’s a joke in all honesty.

itll be interesting to see if the FA punish us for not fielding a full strength team....
		
Click to expand...


winter break? lol this is england not the continent get on with it 

managers need the break as much as players too yeah?


----------



## Slime (Jan 26, 2020)

Mr Maguire scored a beauty this afternoon ................................. let's talk about that, shall we.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/51257718


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 26, 2020)

Slime said:



			Mr Maguire scored a beauty this afternoon ................................. let's talk about that, shall we.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/51257718

Click to expand...

Ok, i like how he channelled his inner Lampard and battered it at the defender.....


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			winter break? lol this is england not the continent get on with it 

managers need the break as much as players too yeah?
		
Click to expand...

He’s only following the rules 🤷‍♂️


----------



## fundy (Jan 26, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			He’s only following the rules 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

what rule says hes not allowed to pick first team players and that hes not allowed to manage? did they apply to today to


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 26, 2020)

Slime said:



			Mr Maguire scored a beauty this afternoon ................................. let's talk about that, shall we.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/51257718

Click to expand...

Umm - he gave it a good thump 🤨


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			what rule says hes not allowed to pick first team players and that hes not allowed to manage? did they apply to today to 

Click to expand...

Believe the Premier League have requested that all Prem League teams respect rbe winter break and don’t organise any friendlies etc and give the players the week off -


----------



## fundy (Jan 26, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Believe the Premier League have requested that all Prem League teams respect rbe winter break and don’t organise any friendlies etc and give the players the week off -
		
Click to expand...


and how does that answer the question which rule says hes not allowed to pick first team players or manage?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			and how does that answer the question which rule says hes not allowed to pick first team players or manage?
		
Click to expand...

As I said - the Premier League have stated that the break must be respected , no games are to be played during the teams week break , any friendlies are forbidden- so it seems Klopp is going to take that to its extreme word and his team won’t play during the week and have the week off


----------



## fundy (Jan 26, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As I said - the Premier League have stated that the break must be respected , no games are to be played during the teams week break , any friendlies are forbidden- so it seems Klopp is going to take that to its extreme word and his team won’t play during the week and have the week off
		
Click to expand...

so hes taking a request and applying it to a game thats completely outside the remit of the request, so basically nothing to do with it, and youre saying hes following the rules? ok then


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 26, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Damaged spine?
You’ve took 2+2 and made a hundred
Those quotes are after the Wolves game where it happened,listen to the whole interview
		
Click to expand...

I would take some of what Ole says with a pinch of salt, as he is in "defensive" mode.

On a recent interview he railed when he was asked if Rashford would be out until the next internationals break as if it was a massive exaggeration, but when asked how many weeks it would possibly be, virtually concurred with it. I dont blame him as managers dont always have to tell the truth, and also have to protect the club/players as well, but recently he is starting to have that panicked look in interviews, that is the sign of a manager dying on his arse.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			so hes taking a request and applying it to a game thats completely outside the remit of the request, so basically nothing to do with it, *and youre saying hes following the rules? ok then*

Click to expand...

I didn’t say anything about following rules 🤭

And believe the winter break was agreed in conjunction with the FA and it’s their cup


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			so hes taking a request and applying it to a game thats completely outside the remit of the request, so basically nothing to do with it, and youre saying hes following the rules? ok then
		
Click to expand...

😀😀 you’re on  a wind up......The PL have told all clubs not play any game during the scheduled winter break. The FA have scheduled a replay in that week. if Klopp plays his 1st team then he’s in breach of the PL rule, no?

Add into that he’s already booked a week in Dubai and Mrs Klopp won’t be happy if it’s cancelled 😉


----------



## pokerjoke (Jan 26, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I would take some of what Ole says with a pinch of salt, as he is in "defensive" mode.

On a recent interview he railed when he was asked if Rashford would be out until the next internationals break as if it was a massive exaggeration, but when asked how many weeks it would possibly be, virtually concurred with it. I dont blame him as managers dont always have to tell the truth, and also have to protect the club/players as well, but recently he is starting to have that panicked look in interviews, that is the sign of a manager dying on his arse.
		
Click to expand...

You would be the expert having had plenty of manager dying on their arse


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 26, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			You would be the expert having had plenty of manager dying on their arse
		
Click to expand...

Yep, seen it with 4 of our managers over 16 years, similar to your 4 over the last 7 years.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 26, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			CC struggles with how the modern game works.
		
Click to expand...

By winning we go to the next round = another game .
If he dosnt want any more games just lose and go out!
Not struggling with that.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 27, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



*By winning we go to the next round* = another game .
If he dosnt want any more games just lose and go out!
Not struggling with that.
		
Click to expand...

And that’s exactly what he tried to do by bringing Salah,Firmino and Chamberlain on, yet you’ve moaned that he’s risked those 3 players! 

What else did you expect him to do?


----------



## Fish (Jan 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			itll be interesting to see if the FA punish us for not fielding a full strength team....
		
Click to expand...

I personally would like to see this brought in across the board, not because of your current situation, but for, and against all clubs that field a full or large amount of changes. 

All our domestic cups however they are perceived in a managers, clubs or fans order of importance, should all be fully respected as they are our own domestic cups, which have, or should have, some historic value and pride afforded to them. 

Players from lower leagues not only at times get to play at a PL ground, which is possibly a once in a lifetime opportunity, but to then not play against some of the best top drawer players of that club is stealing their dreams, how dare you 😏

But seriously, I’d like to see a percentage of first team players having to play in all our domestic cups. 

If a club has chosen to play in a tournament that only benefits that club commercially, then it is simply being disingenuous towards our own history and domestic cups and should be punished, not financially as that has little affect nowadays to those clubs that get involved in these tours during our season, but a real punishment like being removed from the FA Cup would be appropriate imo, as the club is not taking such a cup and it’s history seriously, irrelevant of the excuse of giving youth a chance, you play, for example 50% of first team players or your removed, simples.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 27, 2020)

Fish said:



			I personally would like to see this brought in across the board, not because of your current situation, but for, and against all clubs that field a full or large amount of changes.

All our domestic cups however they are perceived in a managers, clubs or fans order of importance, should all be fully respected as they are our own domestic cups, which have, or should have, some historic value and pride afforded to them.

Players from lower leagues not only at times get to play at a PL ground, which is possibly a once in a lifetime opportunity, but to then not play against some of the best top drawer players of that club is stealing their dreams, how dare you 😏

But seriously, I’d like to see a percentage of first team players having to play in all our domestic cups.

If a club has chosen to play in a tournament that only benefits that club commercially, then it is simply being disingenuous towards our own history and domestic cups and should be punished, not financially as that has little affect nowadays to those clubs that get involved in these tours during our season, but a real punishment like being removed from the FA Cup would be appropriate imo, as the club is not taking such a cup and it’s history seriously, irrelevant of the excuse of giving youth a chance, you play, for example 50% of first team players or your removed, simples.
		
Click to expand...

I had a long winded post lined up but in essence it's the result of the dollar being worth more than the success.


----------



## Fish (Jan 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I had a long winded post lined up but in essence it's the result of the dollar being worth more than the success.
		
Click to expand...

and as a match going fan, are you happy with that?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 27, 2020)

Fish said:



			I personally would like to see this brought in across the board, not because of your current situation, but for, and against all clubs that field a full or large amount of changes.

All our domestic cups however they are perceived in a managers, clubs or fans order of importance, should all be fully respected as they are our own domestic cups, which have, or should have, some historic value and pride afforded to them.

Players from lower leagues not only at times get to play at a PL ground, which is possibly a once in a lifetime opportunity, but to then not play against some of the best top drawer players of that club is stealing their dreams, how dare you 😏

But seriously, I’d like to see a percentage of first team players having to play in all our domestic cups.

If a club has chosen to play in a tournament that only benefits that club commercially, then it is simply being disingenuous towards our own history and domestic cups and should be punished, not financially as that has little affect nowadays to those clubs that get involved in these tours during our season, but a real punishment like being removed from the FA Cup would be appropriate imo, as the club is not taking such a cup and it’s history seriously, irrelevant of the excuse of giving youth a chance, you play, for example 50% of first team players or your removed, simples.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t believe any club has chosen to play in any comps - they are automatically entered into a competition where they either qualify or are part of the association 

Each clubs responsibility is to their own club - it’s not up to them to worry about other clubs “dreams” etc. 

The minute the money arrived into the game from the Prem then the level of importance of those domestic cups dropped - why do we need two domestic cups ? Some nations because of the workload of the players are removing the cups to help the clubs and indeed the player - players now nearly play all year round because National FA’s arranging summer friendlies etc so a player can’t play every single game - you will flog them until they start getting serious injuries 

Teams should never be forced to play any player - it’s up to the manager to manage his squad appropriately for the priorities of that team - that could be for the league or CL but domestic cups are becoming just a nice thing If they don’t get in way of other priorities- money talks , money gets the grounds , get the big players , gets the world wide attraction. It’s ugly but it’s a change that happened decades ago


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 27, 2020)

Fish said:



			I personally would like to see this brought in across the board, not because of your current situation, but for, and against all clubs that field a full or large amount of changes.

All our domestic cups however they are perceived in a managers, clubs or fans order of importance, should all be fully respected as they are our own domestic cups, which have, or should have, some historic value and pride afforded to them.

Players from lower leagues not only at times get to play at a PL ground, which is possibly a once in a lifetime opportunity, but to then not play against some of the best top drawer players of that club is stealing their dreams, how dare you 😏

But seriously, I’d like to see a percentage of first team players having to play in all our domestic cups.

If a club has chosen to play in a tournament that only benefits that club commercially, then it is simply being disingenuous towards our own history and domestic cups and should be punished, not financially as that has little affect nowadays to those clubs that get involved in these tours during our season, but a real punishment like being removed from the FA Cup would be appropriate imo, as the club is not taking such a cup and it’s history seriously, irrelevant of the excuse of giving youth a chance, you play, for example 50% of first team players or your removed, simples.
		
Click to expand...

Most PL squads are around 23-25 players an I'd love to see a rule that says a minimum of 6 first team players have to play in cup games whether that is starting or coming off the bench and if not they are simply DQ'd from the competition and a fine imposed. There has to be some integrity to the competitions and I can't really see how managers can hide behind the "players are tired" or "we are playing too many games" when there is more than enough in a squad to rotate and rest some. let others recover from injuries etc.


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 27, 2020)

Quick, someone mention Man Utd disrespecting the FA Cup by not playing in it in 2000...


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			And that’s exactly what he tried to do by bringing Salah,Firmino and Chamberlain on, yet you’ve moaned that he’s risked those 3 players!

What else did you expect him to do?
		
Click to expand...

It seems to me you don’t understand the difference between a general discussion and moaning.
I only asked why he brought them on and risked them for a comp he has no interest in.


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 27, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			It seems to me you don’t understand the difference between a general discussion and moaning.
I only asked why he brought them on and risked them for a comp he has no interest in.
		
Click to expand...

If you're trying to avoid a reply, your options are A) bring in some good players to try and win the game, or B) instruct your players to concede a late goal. I reckon he would have taken more flak for B than for A.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			If you're trying to avoid a reply, your options are A) bring in some good players to try and win the game, or B) instruct your players to concede a late goal. I reckon he would have taken more flak for B than for A. 

Click to expand...

If the team he put out were not good enough to win so be it.
But by putting big players on to win the game the result is the same = another game.!
He has no interest in the FA cup I am just trying to see the logic.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 27, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Quick, someone mention Man Utd disrespecting the FA Cup by not playing in it in 2000...
		
Click to expand...

That’s when you were good though.
It’s about time teams opted out if it doesn't suit them.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 27, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Quick, someone mention Man Utd disrespecting the FA Cup by not playing in it in 2000...
		
Click to expand...

They did...started the slippery slope.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 27, 2020)

Fish said:



			I personally would like to see this brought in across the board, not because of your current situation, but for, and against all clubs that field a full or large amount of changes.

All our domestic cups however they are perceived in a managers, clubs or fans order of importance, should all be fully respected as they are our own domestic cups, which have, or should have, some historic value and pride afforded to them.

Players from lower leagues not only at times get to play at a PL ground, which is possibly a once in a lifetime opportunity, but to then not play against some of the best top drawer players of that club is stealing their dreams, how dare you 😏

But seriously, I’d like to see a percentage of first team players having to play in all our domestic cups.

If a club has chosen to play in a tournament that only benefits that club commercially, then it is simply being disingenuous towards our own history and domestic cups and should be punished, not financially as that has little affect nowadays to those clubs that get involved in these tours during our season, but a real punishment like being removed from the FA Cup would be appropriate imo, as the club is not taking such a cup and it’s history seriously, irrelevant of the excuse of giving youth a chance, you play, for example 50% of first team players or your removed, simples.
		
Click to expand...

This 👍, have to say that City under Pep have respected the comps they go in inc the league cup. If anything the fans give Pep a little stick for not playing enough young ones. Which it appears he has done this year. Ut Tash thinks that may well be due to injuries in the back line more than owt else.
Re. To respecting the cups, if you don’t play in the earlier rounds you don’t play in the final.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 27, 2020)

Fish said:



			I personally would like to see this brought in across the board, not because of your current situation, but for, and against all clubs that field a full or large amount of changes.

All our domestic cups however they are perceived in a managers, clubs or fans order of importance, should all be fully respected as they are our own domestic cups, which have, or should have, some historic value and pride afforded to them.

Players from lower leagues not only at times get to play at a PL ground, which is possibly a once in a lifetime opportunity, but to then not play against some of the best top drawer players of that club is stealing their dreams, how dare you 😏

But seriously, I’d like to see a percentage of first team players having to play in all our domestic cups.

If a club has chosen to play in a tournament that only benefits that club commercially, then it is simply being disingenuous towards our own history and domestic cups and should be punished, not financially as that has little affect nowadays to those clubs that get involved in these tours during our season, but a real punishment like being removed from the FA Cup would be appropriate imo, as the club is not taking such a cup and it’s history seriously, irrelevant of the excuse of giving youth a chance, you play, for example 50% of first team players or your removed, simples.
		
Click to expand...

As a football fan I agree what you are trying to encourage, but overall big conversations have to be had with regards to competitions/fixtures/replays with the football league, FA, premier league, UEFA and FIFA.

However, with the amount of self-interest and stupidity amongst all of them "organisations", I dont expect anything soon, or workable.

I would love to get the FA cup back to what it was in the 70's and 80's, doubt we will, but lots of things can be done to get it at least partially there.


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 27, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			If the team he put out were not good enough to win so be it.
But by putting big players on to win the game the result is the same = another game.!
He has no interest in the FA cup I am just trying to see the logic.
		
Click to expand...

Well the logic is you can't set out to deliberately lose a game as that would be absurd. Also what would that do to the confidence of the back-up players? "I am playing you because I want us to lose this one." "Cheers gaffer."


----------



## Slime (Jan 27, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s when you were good though.
It’s about time teams opted out if it doesn't suit them.
		
Click to expand...

We're into the next round, are you?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 27, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			As a football fan I agree what you are trying to encourage, but overall big conversations have to be had with regards to competitions/fixtures/replays with the football league, FA, premier league, UEFA and FIFA.

However, with the amount of self-interest and stupidity amongst all of them "organisations", I dont expect anything soon, or workable.

I would love to get the FA cup back to what it was in the 70's and 80's, doubt we will, but lots of things can be done to get it at least partially there.
		
Click to expand...

This all day long, add in the Winners only getting a EL place and the Runners-up nothing if Winners already qualified for Europe.
The FA Cup place last season went to 7th in the PL.

One easy way to raise the FA Cup profile again, Winners/Runners-up get 4th CL slot, that wouldn’t be popular with some, but would certainly give the FA Cup a bit more of a priority.

As for who teams put out, manager’s decision, pure and simple.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Well the logic is you can't set out to deliberately lose a game as that would be absurd. Also what would that do to the confidence of the back-up players? "I am playing you because I want us to lose this one." "Cheers gaffer."
		
Click to expand...

I am just thinking that we are not going to win the cup.
So the longer we are in it the more games we have .
Be it a replay or the next round it’s still another game.
Nobody goes out to lose your correct.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 27, 2020)

Slime said:



			We're into the next round, are you?  

Click to expand...

Not yet but we’re working on it.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 27, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			This all day long, add in the Winners only getting a EL place and the Runners-up nothing if Winners already qualified for Europe.
The FA Cup place last season went to 7th in the PL.

One easy way to raise the FA Cup profile again, Winners/Runners-up get 4th CL slot, that wouldn’t be popular with some, but would certainly give the FA Cup a bit more of a priority.

As for who teams put out, manager’s decision, pure and simple.
		
Click to expand...

That’s a good idea. As the FA cup winners are a cup winning side .
Coming fourth in the league means nothing except more money.


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 27, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I am just thinking that we are not going to win the cup.
So the longer we are in it the more games we have .
Be it a replay or the next round it’s still another game.
Nobody goes out to lose your correct.
		
Click to expand...

I agree when it's third priority at best - we're in the same boat as we have our replay shooting down our winter break as well now. Just saying the managers' hands are tied a bit, isn't much they can do about it.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 27, 2020)

As harsh as it is - domestic cups have moved on , other countries are actually stopping playing them where as we have two - the amount of games the player in the UK at a top club could play is 

38 Prem Games , 7 FA Cups , 9 Lge Cup , 8-14 CL games - then add in the international games another 10 games 
That’s a potential of 70 games in the season plus any tournaments in the summer 

Something has to give - players and teams can’t continue to have the heavy load

And because teams want their players fresher for either challenging for the League or CL , or avoiding relegation then the league and CL are always going to be the priority- that’s were the money is that allows the teams to build and be successful 

Players don’t go to clubs to play in a domestic cup , owners don’t spend money for a FA Cup etc 

The CL isn’t going to get smaller , Internationals aren’t going to change , the Prem isn’t going to change - that leaves the domestic cups - and the first step could be removing the Prem Teams from the League Cup -


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 27, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			They did...started the slippery slope.
		
Click to expand...

Nope. That’s not actually what happened. We were asked not to play in it.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 27, 2020)

Not sure how many of the big European nations have stopped playing cup competitions. Coppa Del Rey, Coppa Italia, DFB cup etc. All being played and competed by the top sides


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 27, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As harsh as it is - domestic cups have moved on , other countries are actually stopping playing them where as we have two - the amount of games the player in the UK at a top club could play is

*38 Prem Games , 7 FA Cups , 9 Lge Cup , 8-14 CL games* - then add in the international games another 10 games
That’s a potential of 70 games in the season plus any tournaments in the summer

Something has to give - players and teams can’t continue to have the heavy load

And because teams want their players fresher for either challenging for the League or CL , or avoiding relegation then the league and CL are always going to be the priority- that’s were the money is that allows the teams to build and be successful

Players don’t go to clubs to play in a domestic cup , owners don’t spend money for a FA Cup etc

The CL isn’t going to get smaller , Internationals aren’t going to change , the Prem isn’t going to change - that leaves the domestic cups - and the first step could be removing the Prem Teams from the League Cup -
		
Click to expand...

Or just 40 games if you’re Everton.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 27, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Nope. That’s not actually what happened. We were asked not to play in it.
		
Click to expand...

Asked to play in the World Club Championships - could have done a Klopp and entered reserves in FA Cup initial rounds.


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 27, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Asked to play in the World Club Championships - could have done a Klopp and entered reserves in FA Cup initial rounds.
		
Click to expand...

 We did as we were asked. Football was a different beast even twenty years ago. Squad depth wasn’t anywhere near currently expected levels at the top teams.


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 27, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not sure how many of the big European nations have stopped playing cup competitions. Coppa Del Rey, Coppa Italia, DFB cup etc. All being played and competed by the top sides
		
Click to expand...

Many countries have dropped their league cup. This is the last year of it in France, too. 

The FA Cup is historically held in much higher esteem than other countries’ versions. England is just coming in line with the rest.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 27, 2020)

Off the top of my head.

League cup

1. Make it England and Scottish teams, Welsh are already included.
2. 1 x semi final (neutral venue), by god not Wembley again.
3. Teams playing in Europe get a bye for 1st round (as now), another round, if workable, or CL teams only do and EL dont (again if the numbers stack up).
4. Final in early April, when its a bit warmer.
5. Pick who you want but the players have to play in at least 2 rounds, if they want to play in the final, unless injury was an obvious factor. Rashford's will have to go to the high court. 
6. No replays.
7. The big boys not to get their own way dictating to the rest.
8. The final of a *Saturday* at 5.00, all other league games to kick off before 2.00 pm or on the Friday/Sunday/Monday.


FA Cup.

1. The 20 Lowest placed teams have an option to be placed in a separate, but still random, draw along with the premiership clubs. Lower placed team have the option whether to play it at home (default position) or away at the big boys. So this would mainly be for the lower placed non-league teams, div 2 , maybe the odd div 1.
2. No replays.
3. Semis back to neutral venues, and also see of the millenium is available.
4. No league games on Finals day, just day before or afterwards.
5. 3rd round weekend to be at least 4-5 days after the Xmas/new year period games, if not 8-9 days after.
6. Snooker "personalities" to be brought in to "jazz up" the 12.30 slot on cup final day. 
7. £25 adult/£10 kids prices for tickets across all games up to semis.
8. Realistic pricing for semi and final tickets (maybe similar prices to what the finalists charge their own fans for normal league games and greater share to participating clubs.
9. 25% away ticket allocations, as per yesteryear - some great days out then.

Internationals

Played in 2-3 "blocks" in a year instead of 5-6 of them, less friendlies.

African cup to go to once every two years.

Players to have at least 4 weeks rest after their team exits the summer tournaments before they can even start training again.

Prem

Keep xmas schedule as is, but full rest week in mid-late January (when everyone is skint), no friendlies allowed.
No-one to play within, say 65 hours of a previous game, and definitely not 48/55 hours later.

There's that to be getting on with.

I dont care what France does, Sir Humphrey would be turning in his grave. 

BTW not "comfortable" with Jurgen not managing the team. I understand that everyone needs a rest, but still doesnt "sit" right.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 27, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Many countries have dropped their league cup. This is the last year of it in France, too. 

The FA Cup is historically held in much higher esteem than other countries’ versions. England is just coming in line with the rest.
		
Click to expand...

I can understand the theory behind that and to be honest is there really that much of a future for the league cup in England? you'd hope (although I doubt it) that if we only had the FA cup as our one domestic cup in line with a lot of Europe that the bigger sides may start to view it in a slightly higher esteem again. That or do what they in the league cup and get a result on the day either via extra time or penalties and take out replays


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 27, 2020)

I would say just make the League Cup optional to Premier League teams. Let the big clubs opt out and let the teams who would actually value winning it compete. It's a bit of a joke at the minute when Man City's reserves and kids can get them to the semis while none of their fans gives a flying one about it. 

Although, they may opt to stay in it anyway as it gives more senior game opportunities for their young players.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 27, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As harsh as it is - domestic cups have moved on , other countries are actually stopping playing them where as we have two - the amount of games the player in the UK at a top club could play is

38 Prem Games , 7 FA Cups , 9 Lge Cup , 8-14 CL games - then add in the international games another 10 games
That’s a potential of 70 games in the season plus any tournaments in the summer

Something has to give - players and teams can’t continue to have the heavy load

And because teams want their players fresher for either challenging for the League or CL , or avoiding relegation then the league and CL are always going to be the priority- that’s were the money is that allows the teams to build and be successful

Players don’t go to clubs to play in a domestic cup , owners don’t spend money for a FA Cup etc

The CL isn’t going to get smaller , Internationals aren’t going to change , the Prem isn’t going to change - that leaves the domestic cups - and the first step could be removing the Prem Teams from the League Cup -
		
Click to expand...

That’s a perfect summary and is why I questioned Klopp putting three top players out last night.
Win or draw last night we still have another game.
But the cup is of no interest to Klopp apart from giving other lads a game.
We won’t win it with the side last night.
One cup will have to go soon.


----------



## IanM (Jan 27, 2020)

I laughed out loud when the TV Commentator said that Shrewsbury had held the Champions of Europe and the Champions of the World. 

Oh no they haven't, not by a long chalk.... and I feel sorry for the mugs who turned up in numbers to see the U23s etc.  Sad to see.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 27, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Off the top of my head.

League cup

1. Make it England and Scottish teams, Welsh are already included.
2. 1 x semi final (neutral venue), by god not Wembley again.
3. Teams playing in Europe get a bye for 1st round (as now), another round, if workable, or CL teams only do and EL dont (again if the numbers stack up).
4. Final in early April, when its a bit warmer.
5. Pick who you want but the players have to play in at least 2 rounds, if they want to play in the final, unless injury was an obvious factor. Rashford's will have to go to the high court. 
6. No replays.
7. The big boys not to get their own way dictating to the rest.
8. The final of a *Saturday* at 5.00, all other league games to kick off before 2.00 pm or on the Friday/Sunday/Monday.


FA Cup.

1. The 20 Lowest placed teams have an option to be placed in a separate, but still random, draw along with the premiership clubs. Lower placed team have the option whether to play it at home (default position) or away at the big boys. So this would mainly be for the lower placed non-league teams, div 2 , maybe the odd div 1.
2. No replays.
3. Semis back to neutral venues, and also see of the millenium is available.
4. No league games on Finals day, just day before or afterwards.
5. 3rd round weekend to be at least 4-5 days after the Xmas/new year period games, if not 8-9 days after.
6. Snooker "personalities" to be brought in to "jazz up" the 12.30 slot on cup final day. 
7. £25 adult/£10 kids prices for tickets across all games up to semis.
8. Realistic pricing for semi and final tickets (maybe similar prices to what the finalists charge their own fans for normal league games and greater share to participating clubs.
9. 25% away ticket allocations, as per yesteryear - some great days out then.

Internationals

Played in 2-3 "blocks" in a year instead of 5-6 of them, less friendlies.

African cup to go to once every two years.

Players to have at least 4 weeks rest after their team exits the summer tournaments before they can even start training again.

Prem

Keep xmas schedule as is, but full rest week in mid-late January (when everyone is skint), no friendlies allowed.
No-one to play within, say 65 hours of a previous game, and definitely not 48/55 hours later.

There's that to be getting on with.

I dont care what France does, Sir Humphrey would be turning in his grave. 

BTW not "comfortable" with Jurgen not managing the team. I understand that everyone needs a rest, but still doesnt "sit" right.
		
Click to expand...

Look like you should be at FA headquarters. You avaliable.?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 27, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Off the top of my head.

League cup

1. Make it England and Scottish teams, Welsh are already included.
2. 1 x semi final (neutral venue), by god not Wembley again.
3. Teams playing in Europe get a bye for 1st round (as now), another round, if workable, or CL teams only do and EL dont (again if the numbers stack up).
4. Final in early April, when its a bit warmer.
5. Pick who you want but the players have to play in at least 2 rounds, if they want to play in the final, unless injury was an obvious factor. Rashford's will have to go to the high court. 
6. No replays.
7. The big boys not to get their own way dictating to the rest.
8. The final of a *Saturday* at 5.00, all other league games to kick off before 2.00 pm or on the Friday/Sunday/Monday.


FA Cup.

1. The 20 Lowest placed teams have an option to be placed in a separate, but still random, draw along with the premiership clubs. Lower placed team have the option whether to play it at home (default position) or away at the big boys. So this would mainly be for the lower placed non-league teams, div 2 , maybe the odd div 1.
2. No replays.
3. Semis back to neutral venues, and also see of the millenium is available.
4. No league games on Finals day, just day before or afterwards.
5. 3rd round weekend to be at least 4-5 days after the Xmas/new year period games, if not 8-9 days after.
6. Snooker "personalities" to be brought in to "jazz up" the 12.30 slot on cup final day. 
7. £25 adult/£10 kids prices for tickets across all games up to semis.
8. Realistic pricing for semi and final tickets (maybe similar prices to what the finalists charge their own fans for normal league games and greater share to participating clubs.
9. 25% away ticket allocations, as per yesteryear - some great days out then.

Internationals

Played in 2-3 "blocks" in a year instead of 5-6 of them, less friendlies.

African cup to go to once every two years.

Players to have at least 4 weeks rest after their team exits the summer tournaments before they can even start training again.

Prem

Keep xmas schedule as is, but full rest week in mid-late January (when everyone is skint), no friendlies allowed.
No-one to play within, say 65 hours of a previous game, and definitely not 48/55 hours later.

There's that to be getting on with.

I dont care what France does, Sir Humphrey would be turning in his grave. 

BTW not "comfortable" with Jurgen not managing the team. I understand that everyone needs a rest, but still doesnt "sit" right.
		
Click to expand...

Pete 

some good stuff but I feel a lot is coming from a fans focus ( nothing wrong with that ) but a lot of issues are with the level of game load on the players and whilst your changes would point towards more for the fans I don’t think it helps the managers etc 

For me changes should be 

All your ticket suggestions spot on 

League Cup - either scrap it or remove the Prem Clubs and bring in the Scottish Clubs and rebrand it 

FA Cup - Prem Teams arrive in round 3 , no replays from round 4 , go back to the old style semis at various grounds

Prem - winter break where no games can be played - same as what we they have introduced now 

International- Friendlies only allowed in the month before a tournament


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 27, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			This all day long, add in the Winners only getting a EL place and the Runners-up nothing if Winners already qualified for Europe.
The FA Cup place last season went to 7th in the PL.

One easy way to raise the FA Cup profile again, Winners/Runners-up get 4th CL slot, that wouldn’t be popular with some, but would certainly give the FA Cup a bit more of a priority.

As for who teams put out, manager’s decision, pure and simple.
		
Click to expand...

Couldn’t agree more, however If City, Liverpool and Leicester finish in the top three. Hypothetically you could of had Utd, Spurs, Arsenal Chelsea etc etc thinking the FA cup is the best chance for champs league.

Another point, have you seen how much the winners of the Crappyboo cup get. £100K 😳. that don’t pay for Pogbas haircut.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 27, 2020)

I know this is the PL thread, but some of the suggestions on here are so out of touch in regards to the whole nations football fans imo. as much as money has obviously changed things. Not for one second do I think that it’s only fans of premier league teams that subscribe. 

The fa cup hasn’t lost its magic for all those fans of the 100’s of teams that aren’t in the PL that enter qualification. Replays, keep em. If top clubs don’t wanna face em. Play a full strength team and get it done. The money Shrewsbury will earn from the replay will probably cover a years overheads. Then the football associations cup. Not the PL cup. Maybe, a caveat could be that if both teams agree prior to a fixture then it can go to pens. So PL drawn against one another can have a one off game. 

Internationals, unless you support a top 6 club, then the best players you’ll get to watch will likely be your countries. I would scrap the cup of nations, and maybe limit friendlies, but cancel em other than prior a comp. nope, over a 2 year cycle teams need at least a few meet ups to train together and try new ideas.  

League cup. Make it optional, but a team must name their squad prior to first round they enter. So they can’t just chuck kids in and then dump em when they get to the semis and start to get interested in a trophy. No pref to any teams in Europe. Certainly not one that gives extra help to those in the CL considering the Europa teams will likely of played more games. Sorry Pete. 

I like the idea of a 4 week break after intl comps. But, if you are a team with Europa or CL qualification games and half your squad can’t play, would you like the idea so much......

Clubs do play more games now, but also have vastly bigger squads. A break, if anything helps the bugger clubs further. It Means they don’t need to rotate as much and then the smaller clubs, who’s players maybe have that little extra desire (with less ability) and relish the hectic schedule don’t get the benefit against the “pampered” players.  

On a side note, re Liverpool’s replay squad. No complaints from me about resting the squad. Think it’s good klopp isn’t managing the team as their not really his players as such, but think he should be there. As a few words from him could really inspire the kids.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 27, 2020)

Fish said:



			and as a match going fan, are you happy with that?
		
Click to expand...

No absolutely not but theres nothing I can do to influence or change it.

I'll  always enjoy any trophy my team wins over winning the P&L sheet table, 4th place finishes etc. 

Days  out to Wembley, Cardiff,Dortmund  etc to see us win trophies are memories  I'll never forget. I dont want to  remember finishing 4th.  

As football has changed to a money obsessed sport I can understand why finishing 4th is an achievement as such. 

Ask Wigan or Birmingham fans would they swap their  trophies for PL football then ask the chairmen andd I'm certain they'd have different answers.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 27, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Look like you should be at FA headquarters. You avaliable.?
		
Click to expand...

Just let me stock up on a (brown envelope) opener, and have the op to remove 1/3rd of my brain, and I'll start next Monday.

I just need a rest, first.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 27, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			It seems to me you don’t understand the difference between a general discussion and moaning.
I only asked why he brought them on and risked them for a comp he has no interest in.
		
Click to expand...


🙄🙄 I thought it was obvious.. He wanted to avoid a replay and win the game.


----------



## Slime (Jan 27, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As harsh as it is - domestic cups have moved on , other countries are actually stopping playing them where as we have two - the amount of games the player in the UK at a top club could play is

38 Prem Games , 7 FA Cups , 9 Lge Cup , 8-14 CL games - then add in the international games another 10 games
*That’s a potential of 70 games in the season* plus any tournaments in the summer
		
Click to expand...

But isn't that what large squads are for?
It's up to the manager to manage that very scenario.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 27, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Pete

some good stuff but I feel a lot is coming from a fans focus ( nothing wrong with that ) but a lot of issues are with the level of game load on the players and whilst your changes would point towards more for the fans I don’t think it helps the managers etc

For me changes should be

All your ticket suggestions spot on

League Cup - either scrap it or remove the Prem Clubs and bring in the Scottish Clubs and rebrand it

FA Cup - Prem Teams arrive in round 3 , no replays from round 4 , go back to the old style semis at various grounds

Prem - winter break where no games can be played - same as what we they have introduced now

International- Friendlies only allowed in the month before a tournament
		
Click to expand...

Correct, after all I am a fan.

I do realise that there are too many games, and the clubs like Liverpool, City, United have bigger incomes and bigger squads,so should be able to manage the  earlier rounds (or not).

The plus of still having domestic cups is that you can use fringe players, players coming back from injury who only need 60 minutes (like Matip yesterday) and also the kids.

If we get rid of the league cup people will be moaning that young English talent then arent getting a chance. Each manager/club can pick accordingly.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 27, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I know this is the PL thread, but some of the suggestions on here are so out of touch in regards to the whole nations football fans imo. as much as money has obviously changed things. Not for one second do I think that it’s only fans of premier league teams that subscribe.

The fa cup hasn’t lost its magic for all those fans of the 100’s of teams that aren’t in the PL that enter qualification. Replays, keep em. If top clubs don’t wanna face em. Play a full strength team and get it done. The money Shrewsbury will earn from the replay will probably cover a years overheads. Then the football associations cup. Not the PL cup. Maybe, a caveat could be that if both teams agree prior to a fixture then it can go to pens. So PL drawn against one another can have a one off game.

Internationals, unless you support a top 6 club, then the best players you’ll get to watch will likely be your countries. I would scrap the cup of nations, and maybe limit friendlies, but cancel em other than prior a comp. nope, over a 2 year cycle teams need at least a few meet ups to train together and try new ideas. 

League cup. Make it optional, but a team must name their squad prior to first round they enter. So they can’t just chuck kids in and then dump em when they get to the semis and start to get interested in a trophy. No pref to any teams in Europe. Certainly not one that gives extra help to those in the CL considering the Europa teams will likely of played more games. Sorry Pete.

I like the idea of a 4 week break after intl comps. But, if you are a team with Europa or CL qualification games and half your squad can’t play, would you like the idea so much......

Clubs do play more games now, but also have vastly bigger squads. A break, if anything helps the bugger clubs further. It Means they don’t need to rotate as much and then the smaller clubs, who’s players maybe have that little extra desire (with less ability) and relish the hectic schedule don’t get the benefit against the “pampered” players. 

On a side note, re Liverpool’s replay squad. No complaints from me about resting the squad. Think it’s good klopp isn’t managing the team as their not really his players as such, but think he should be there. As a few words from him could really inspire the kids.
		
Click to expand...

Thats the thing though Dave, there isnt a right answer as we all have competing wants and needs, but I think most people agree that there are too many games so we need to open it up for discussion.

You know me I'm not bothered about international footy that much, but also realise that England need to see English players getting a chance at English clubs. I would expect that most players 90 minute debuts are in League cup and FA cup games when aged 17/18/19, and not necessarily in premiership games, where they may get the odd 10 minutes at the end of a game, if their lucky.

I agree with a mid-season break, but I think its mainly been brought in to help England, probably due to 50 years of doing sod all in international comps, whereas the Europeans have done it for years. It doesnt necessarily benefit my club team, but I can see the reasoning behind it and should no doubt benefit players who are flogged. 

Players need to have enforced breaks after large international tournaments. I think the reason for Torres massive dip was having played about 3-4 years at international tournaments through to the final when Spain were dominant, but he would be back training again 3 weeks after the final, hardly anytime to recuperate or get over injuries. Chelsea seen the result of that rather than us.

I'm not saying all I said is brilliant, but unless the conversation is opened up we'll keep doing the same old same old, then moan about that. Yes, tonnes of interested parties, fans and organisations, but something needs doing, as UEFA want to introduce changes to the CL which will involve more games which will be even worse again. Then the richer will be even richer, and even though my club will probably benefit, I dont believe in massive (and repeatable) disparity in the league.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 27, 2020)

God,have I got to tune into the One show to see the FA cup draw. Shocking programme.


----------



## fundy (Jan 27, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			God,have I got to tune into the One show to see the FA cup draw. Shocking programme.
		
Click to expand...


Liverpool reserves are number 16


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 27, 2020)

Chelsea away for Shrewsbury😉


----------



## fundy (Jan 27, 2020)

Odd looking Arsenal side (theres a shock lol), seem to be missing a playmaker with both Ceballos and Ozil on bench, not sure what were resting Lacazette for either. Be good to see Nketiah back at least, if hes not going out on loan again at least give him some game time


----------



## Fish (Jan 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Chelsea away for Shrewsbury😉
		
Click to expand...

Shame you’ll play your kids, it’s the only fixture that looked tasty, all the others are pretty boring.


----------



## USER1999 (Jan 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			Odd looking Arsenal side (theres a shock lol), seem to be missing a playmaker with both Ceballos and Ozil on bench, not sure what were resting Lacazette for either. Be good to see Nketiah back at least, if hes not going out on loan again at least give him some game time
		
Click to expand...

Willock playing well though. Nice goal from Saka. There is a lot to like about this. Nketiah on the score sheet too.


----------



## fundy (Jan 27, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Willock playing well though. Nice goal from Saka. There is a lot to like about this. Nketiah on the score sheet too.
		
Click to expand...

plenty to like, there again theyll have had harder training sessions than this (so far!)


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			Liverpool reserves are number 16 

Click to expand...

I'd take the reserves, but think it will be the yoof!

I still dont see why we cant play Fab, Lovren and Matip again, as although they were very rusty, they will have another 10 days training in them, and they have all been out for 2 months, so shouldnt need the rest week.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Chelsea away for Shrewsbury😉
		
Click to expand...

Nar, VAR will be in play so no dodgy handballs for them or pens given for a foul on the dee of the penalty area.

We'll get them now.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 27, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'd take the reserves, but think it will be the yoof!

I still dont see why we cant play Fab, Lovren and Matip again, as although they were very rusty, they will have another 10 days training in them, and they have all been out for 2 months, so shouldnt need the rest week.
		
Click to expand...

I think Klopp is using it as a points scoring exercise tbh. It's notthing new. All foreign managers don't like our winter schedule. But he's got the perfect time to make a point.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 27, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I think Klopp is using it as a points scoring exercise tbh. It's notthing new. All foreign managers don't like our winter schedule. But he's got the perfect time to make a point.
		
Click to expand...

But is he. Pep says it’s wrong coz of the amount of games there expected to play. And he is told to buy more players with his Oil money. Liverpool have already had hold of the wrong end of a shitty stick re world club cup and Crappy boo cup. They now have the same problem with replays when Pep has said there should be none. Even the lower league clubs have said there is to much football. Even the fans are bogged off with to much football. Fans are not even bothered to go to FA cup games. So who is wrong. Good on Kloop for making a stand. The FA and Prem league have created a fixture monster.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 27, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I think Klopp is using it as a points scoring exercise tbh. It's notthing new. All foreign managers don't like our winter schedule. But he's got the perfect time to make a point.
		
Click to expand...

I couldnt argue with you there.

I havent seen his psychological medical records.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 27, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			But is he. Pep says it’s wrong coz of the amount of games there expected to play. And he is told to buy more players with his Oil money. Liverpool have already had hold of the wrong end of a shitty stick re world club cup and Crappy boo cup. They now have the same problem with replays when Pep has said there should be none. Even the lower league clubs have said there is to much football. Even the fans are bogged off with to much football. Fans are not even bothered to go to FA cup games. So who is wrong. Good on Kloop for making a stand. The FA and Prem league have created a fixture monster.
		
Click to expand...

Go and have a sit down, Tash.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 27, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Go and have a sit down, Tash. 

Click to expand...

hoping me next sit down is Hillsboro. Daughters partner is a Wednesday fan. 😖


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 27, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			But is he. Pep says it’s wrong coz of the amount of games there expected to play. And he is told to buy more players with his Oil money. Liverpool have already had hold of the wrong end of a shitty stick re world club cup and Crappy boo cup. They now have the same problem with replays when Pep has said there should be none. Even the lower league clubs have said there is to much football. Even the fans are bogged off with to much football. Fans are not even bothered to go to FA cup games. So who is wrong. Good on Kloop for making a stand. The FA and Prem league have created a fixture monster.
		
Click to expand...

Tbf I didn’t watch much of the fa cup at weekend as working nights, but I’d imagine any small club that hosted a top pl sold out. 
Granted PL clubs may have had smaller home gates. 

Let’s be honest, if for some reason at the end of the year there is a pile up of games. Both City and Liverpool will drop players in the league and prioritise the CL. That doesn’t make the PL worthless, it’s just that imo it’ll be sorted. That said, klopp n pep will start saying how it’s great to be busy as it shows they’re in the hunt for trophies. Well, the trophies that earn clubs money at least....

Re your final point, the pl and fa haven’t done anything wrong, some replays have already been scraped. Players play more European games now. Not more domestic games. But there’s too much much money in Europe. At best they’ll grumble ever so slightly about their fans being put out when trailing to the back end of nowhere to play a cup final.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 27, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbf I didn’t watch much of the fa cup at weekend as working nights, but I’d imagine any small club that hosted a top pl sold out.
Granted PL clubs may have had smaller home gates.

Let’s be honest, if for some reason at the end of the year there is a pile up of games. Both City and Liverpool will drop players in the league and prioritise the CL. That doesn’t make the PL worthless, it’s just that imo it’ll be sorted. That said, klopp n pep will start saying how it’s great to be busy as it shows they’re in the hunt for trophies. Well, the trophies that earn clubs money at least....

Re your final point, the pl and fa haven’t done anything wrong, some replays have already been scraped. Players play more European games now. Not more domestic games. But there’s too much much money in Europe. At best they’ll grumble ever so slightly about their fans being put out when trailing to the back end of nowhere to play a cup final.
		
Click to expand...

Been an odd weekend, City got the third highest attendance for FA cup, but Pep and others questioned where the missing fans were. Port Vale played City the previous round and 54 K went to the game. Port Vale brought about 7K. Fulham’s lot came in a mini bus. But it’s the last weekend in Jan with no wages. Folk are skint after Xmas and yet TV folk ask where fans were. Good write up from Tim Cahill about City’s approach to games. But how many clubs have City’s squad.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			🙄🙄 I thought it was obvious.. He wanted to avoid a replay and win the game.
		
Click to expand...

That’s just your interpretation of the subs.
Win or draw we still face another game .
Unless he thinks this team can go all the way, what difference does it make.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 27, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s just your interpretation of the subs.
Win or draw we still face another game .
Unless he thinks this team can go all the way, what difference does it make.
		
Click to expand...

You’re europeans and world club champions as well as smashing the league. Of course he thinks you can win. Let’s be honest, it’s Shrewsbury and your youth team deserved to win. 

Whilst it wasn’t the priority, I’m sure he wanted and expected to get the result first time out. He may change tact now it’s Chelsea if you’re through as you’ll need to play a proper team then, so depending in fixtures may prefer you get knocked out.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 27, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			You’re europeans and world club champions as well as smashing the league. Of course he thinks you can win. Let’s be honest, it’s Shrewsbury and your youth team deserved to win.

Whilst it wasn’t the priority, I’m sure he wanted and expected to get the result first time out. He may change tact now it’s Chelsea if you’re through as you’ll need to play a proper team then, so depending in fixtures may prefer you get knocked out.
		
Click to expand...

So if we bear Shrews at Anfield you think he may put a full side out at Chealsea.
Giving up our unbeaten record at Anfield won’t look good in the record books.
Wether he cares about things like that I don’t know.
Not managing the team for the replay is a bit off imo.
But the cups are low priority at the moment.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 27, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			So if we bear Shrews at Anfield you think he may put a full side out at Chealsea.
Giving up our unbeaten record at Anfield won’t look good in the record books.
Wether he cares about things like that I don’t know.
Not managing the team for the replay is a bit off imo.
But the cups are low priority at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

I think if he doesn’t attend it’s a bit harsh on the kids. 

I think if the youth lost at home he wouldn’t be too gutted now the draw has given you a game you’d need to put a proper team out.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 27, 2020)

I think he will attend ,and the youth team manager will know the young lads better than him so can see the sense.
I just think if your going to play in a cup try to win it.
Or just opt out .
But if I was a Shrews fan I don’t want to watch Liverpool youth.
Just my opinion.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 27, 2020)

I think opting out is a big no-no, once some clubs do that, were will it end? 

It will devalue all competitions except the PL and the CL.

Football should be about all the clubs not the lucky/rich ones at the top, who could just decide whether they felt like it or not, thats a red line for me.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 27, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think opting out is a big no-no, once some clubs do that, were will it end?

It will devalue all competitions except the PL and the CL.

Football should be about all the clubs not the lucky/rich ones at the top, who could just decide whether they felt like it or not, thats a red line for me.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe for the top four it’s the CL that’s the problem.
It used to be a knock out home and away ,now it’s just a money maker and a final in the farthest place they can find.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 27, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s just your interpretation of the subs.
Win or draw we still face another game .
Unless he thinks this team can go all the way, what difference does it make.
		
Click to expand...

You asked why he risked Bobby,mo and chamberlain and it’s obvious to anyone who watched the game  exactly why. He wanted to  win the game and avoid a replay. It really was that simple.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			You asked why he risked Bobby,mo and chamberlain and it’s obvious to anyone who watched the game  exactly why. He wanted to  win the game and avoid a replay. It really was that simple.
		
Click to expand...

Yes ASKED .


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 27, 2020)

I wouldnt normally agree with playing a severely weakend team but on this occasion I cant see what else we can do.

People cryarsing about young players being given a chance and wanting clubs fined etc, these types of games will be more beneficial to them than just another u23s game.

Further proof the PL looking after themselves and their brand whilst everyone else can go and do one. This staggered winter break  shows how much pull sponsors actually have.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I wouldnt normally agree with playing a severely weakend team but on this occasion I cant see what else we can do.

People cryarsing about young players being given a chance and wanting clubs fined etc, these types of games will be more beneficial to them than just another u23s game.

Further proof the PL looking after themselves and their brand whilst everyone else can go and do one. This staggered winter break  shows how much pull sponsors actually have.
		
Click to expand...

Do you think with Klopp stating he’s going to play the kids it will affect the attendance significantly?
Maybe half the ticket prices .


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 27, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Do you think with Klopp stating he’s going to play the kids it will affect the attendance significantly?
Maybe half the ticket prices .
		
Click to expand...

At full price probably, at the price point initially suggested  >£30 we'll still sell out.

Dont forget theres 20,000+ on the ACS alone regardless of opposition and price theyll have already sold.

Now bearing in mind any U23 game played at Anfield is £3 to get in, ST holders free, how can they justify £30 tickets based on that?

Shrewsbury will be entitled to a % gate receipts  so theyll have to agree to any price reductions.

In my opinion £10 adult £5 kids would be the true value, anything above that is taking the piss


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 28, 2020)

£15 for adults, £1 for kids, not bad.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 28, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			£15 for adults, £1 for kids, not bad.
		
Click to expand...

100% of gate going to Shrewsbury so they don't miss out on the extra renue? 😂😂😂


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 28, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			100% of gate going to Shrewsbury so they don't miss out on the extra renue? 😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

They have agreed to it, so fair play to them, although I think offering them 60% of the gate would be an even more altruistic thing to do.

Either that or charge the away fans double.


----------



## Beezerk (Jan 28, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			hoping me next sit down is Hillsboro. Daughters partner is a Wednesday fan. 😖
		
Click to expand...

He obviously has excellent taste in football teams 😁.
Bring it on Tash 💪


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 28, 2020)

86 days after his horrific injury and Andre Gomes is back training with the lads, obviously not full training but ridiculously quick progress, impressive to see. Be amazing if he can make a return towards the end of this season. Get him and Gbamin back and we'll be so much stronger.


----------



## Slime (Jan 28, 2020)

Apparently United will be stronger next season with Sanchez back.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jan 28, 2020)

Slime said:



			Apparently United will be stronger next season with Sanchez back. 

Click to expand...

Bank balance will be a lot less though


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 28, 2020)

Slime said:



			Apparently United will be stronger next season with Sanchez back. 

Click to expand...

It depends which one comes back. Will you get the world class player or his dodgy brother? The original is worth having if he can ever find that form again.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jan 28, 2020)

https://www.skysports.com/football/...rnandes-barcelona-make-bid-for-man-utd-target

Does this now make him a good good player now another top team are linked with him?


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jan 28, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



https://www.skysports.com/football/...rnandes-barcelona-make-bid-for-man-utd-target

Does this now make him a good good player now another top team are linked with him?
		
Click to expand...

Or a pawn so Barca get the striker they want as cover?


----------



## Slime (Jan 28, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



https://www.skysports.com/football/...rnandes-barcelona-make-bid-for-man-utd-target
Does this now make him a good good player now another top team are linked with him?
		
Click to expand...

Barca/Sporting/Mendes playing United like a three stringed guitar.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 28, 2020)

Slime said:



			Barca/Sporting/Mendes playing United like a three stringed guitar.
		
Click to expand...

Said on the radio - Barce have had a fee agreed which is slightly bigger but main bulk of money in the summer and the Man Utd more add ons for CL etc 

So two bids accepted - player to chose ?


----------



## fundy (Jan 28, 2020)

For anyone who wants to cancel the cups have a look at the Villa fans tonight!


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			For anyone who wants to cancel the cups have a look at the Villa fans tonight!
		
Click to expand...

I dont think the cups are the problem, it's the scheduling of said competitions  that are the problem. 

Along with too many international breaks for friendlies, absolute pointless waste of time and effort.

I never watched the villa game but its great for the fans to get to a cup final.


----------



## fundy (Jan 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I dont think the cups are the problem, it's the scheduling of said competitions  that are the problem. 

Along with too many international breaks for friendlies, absolute pointless waste of time and effort.

I never watched the villa game but its great for the fans to get to a cup final.
		
Click to expand...


been the same problems for 20 years, just different sides moaning about it now as they are successful 

pitch invasion at the final whistle and more joy than been seen at villa park for a long night 

cups offer a chance of success to everyone outside the top handful (or 2 this year), amazing how many mid table sides completely disregard it, just shows how much money there is in staying up rather than actually trying to put a trophy in the cabinet!

give the fa cup a CL place and the league cup a europa place imo


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 29, 2020)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51290264

Shameful - it must be such a horrible thing to be happening to the club for the fans to react like this - maybe they should have a little trip to Gigg Lane or Bolton or Macclesfield and see clubs in real trouble as opposed to complaining about that half a billion spent on players




fundy said:



			been the same problems for 20 years, just different sides moaning about it now as they are successful 

*pitch invasion at the final whistle and more joy than been seen at villa park for a long night*

cups offer a chance of success to everyone outside the top handful (or 2 this year), amazing how many mid table sides completely disregard it, just shows how much money there is in staying up rather than actually trying to put a trophy in the cabinet!

give the fa cup a CL place and the league cup a europa place imo 

Click to expand...

But nothing compared to the joy seen when they won the play off final - and I suspect most will swap it for staying in the Prem 

Football has moved on - it’s a business, fans want to see the best players at their team - what brings them? Money and Exposure , don’t get that from a Lge cup or an FA Cup 

The Lge cup already has a Europa Spot as does the FACup - why should a CL spot be given to the FA Cup ?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 29, 2020)

No excuse whatsoever for fans to react like that regardless of how they see the club being run.Nothing more than hooligan and criminal behaviour and nothing to do with supporting a club.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			been the same problems for 20 years, just different sides moaning about it now as they are successful 

pitch invasion at the final whistle and more joy than been seen at villa park for a long night

cups offer a chance of success to everyone outside the top handful (or 2 this year), amazing how many mid table sides completely disregard it, just shows how much money there is in staying up rather than actually trying to put a trophy in the cabinet!

give the fa cup a CL place and the league cup a europa place imo 

Click to expand...

Last sentence, all day long, kicking off a bit re City and the emptyhad. In essence Pep was questioning why only 39K turned up v Fulham. Most City fans saying. fA cup, league cup, having to pay for champs league games in the same week on the last week with no monthly wages TIL this Friday. To much football. Oh and VAR 😁👍


----------



## Slime (Jan 29, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Said on the radio - Barce have had a fee agreed which is slightly bigger but main bulk of money in the summer and the Man Utd more add ons for CL etc

So two bids accepted - player to chose ?
		
Click to expand...

The difference is that Barcelona don't really want him.
They'll buy him and then loan him straight to Valencia, thus allowing them to get the Valencia player that they're really after.
They're just using Fernandes as the sprat to catch the mackerel.
No-brainer for Fernandes.
I'm sure he'd rather be a player at United than a pawn for Barcelona.


----------



## Slime (Jan 29, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51290264

Shameful - it must be such a horrible thing to be happening to the club for the fans to react like this - maybe they should have a little trip to Gigg Lane or Bolton or Macclesfield and see clubs in real trouble as opposed to complaining about that half a billion spent on players
		
Click to expand...

Wow, you really do put a spin on things!


----------



## Slime (Jan 29, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			No excuse whatsoever for fans to react like that regardless of how they see the club being run.Nothing more than hooligan and criminal behaviour and nothing to do with supporting a club.
		
Click to expand...

Absolute cowardly skip rats, the lot of them.
Find them and punish them as harshly as possible.
They bring shame on the club on the evening which, ironically, provided Utd supporters with a little ray of hope!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 29, 2020)

Slime said:



			Wow, you really do put a spin on things!
		
Click to expand...

How is it spin ? What exactly are the fans complainjng about that they believe it’s strong enough to chant about people to die and attacking someone’s house ?! Is Man Utd in that much trouble ?! Is it because of some type of entitlement? Is that club in that much danger ?


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 29, 2020)

Fernandes to United now a done deal according to Fabrizio Romano - 55m euros initial fee plus a potential further 25m in add-ons. 

Steven Bergwijn has completed his move to Spurs as well and will take Eriksen's number. Exciting young player, good signing for them.


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 29, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Steven Bergwijn has completed his move to Spurs as well and will take Eriksen's number. Exciting young player, good signing for them.
		
Click to expand...

Because we were short on wingers obviously. Maybe he can play right back?


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 29, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Because we were short on wingers obviously. Maybe he can play right back?
		
Click to expand...

Has played 16 games this season either behind the striker or as a CF for PSV. 2 goals, 7 assists in 10 games playing as an attacking midfielder. He's versatile, good dribbler, he's quick, agile, and he's only 22. He'll be a good signing I reckon.


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 29, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Has played 16 games this season either behind the striker or as a CF for PSV. 2 goals, 7 assists in 10 games playing as an attacking midfielder. He's versatile, good dribbler, he's quick, agile, and he's only 22. He'll be a good signing I reckon.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, maybe. It's just the only area where we're well-stocked so I can't see him getting loads of minutes. A proper striker, right back, or even a centre back would have all been the priorities in my book. But we've signed a midfielder and a winger.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jan 29, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, maybe. It's just the only area where we're well-stocked so I can't see him getting loads of minutes. A proper striker, right back, or even a centre back would have all been the priorities in my book. But we've signed a midfielder and a winger.
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps your manager feels the current stock aren't either good enough, or trying hard enough.
Nothing like fresh competition to get existing players to up their game and effort.


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 29, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Perhaps your manager feels the current stock aren't either good enough, or trying hard enough.
Nothing like fresh competition to get existing players to up their game and effort.
		
Click to expand...

I don't disagree but if we go through another transfer window with Aurier as the only senior right back that's borderline negligent.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jan 29, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I don't disagree but if we go through another transfer window with Aurier as the only senior right back that's borderline negligent.
		
Click to expand...

You can't buy what isn't available though


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 29, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			You can't buy what isn't available though

Click to expand...

Any right back would be an improvement on Aurier.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 29, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Fernandes to United now a done deal according to Fabrizio Romano - 55m euros initial fee plus a potential further 25m in add-ons.

Steven Bergwijn has completed his move to Spurs as well and will take Eriksen's number. Exciting young player, good signing for them.
		
Click to expand...

Will be interesting to see how the Fernandes signing works out , a lot of pressure - great stats in the Portuguese League but a big step up now - one thing I see it as the end of Pogba in the summer 

As for the guy Spurs have bought - can only ask why am have they bought him when they are screaming out for a striker and full backs and they certainly have cover in the “attacking mid/wide players”


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 29, 2020)

https://www.whufc.com/news/articles...-complete-loan-signing-czech-midfielder-tomas

Delighted with the move. It's got to be better than Sanchez 

Hopefully forces that tool noble onto the bench 

Id like us to return in the bids for Joe Allen aswell..always liked him 

Suppose to be getting a RB in aswell by end of window 

It prob won't be enough but least the owners have been shamed into action


----------



## Slime (Jan 29, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Will be interesting to see how the Fernandes signing works out , a lot of pressure - great stats in the Portuguese League but a big step up now* - one thing I see it as the end of Pogba in the summer

As for the guy Spurs have bought - can only ask why am have they bought him when they are screaming out for a striker and full backs and they certainly have cover in the “attacking mid/wide players”
		
Click to expand...

One thing's for sure, Pogba aside, he's better than anything we currently have.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 29, 2020)

Arsenal sign Pablo Mari on loan from Flamengo with an option to buy. A 26 year old Spanish defender who was previously signed by Man City in 2016, never played a game for them, went on loan for 3 seasons before moving to Flamengo for £1m. Interesting, not sure he's the answer to their defensive problems, but Raul Sanllehi and Mikel Arteta may have seen something in him that Txiki and Pep didn't.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 29, 2020)

Slime said:



			One thing's for sure, Pogba aside, he's better than anything we currently have.
		
Click to expand...

That’s very much true - but then it’s just Mata , Lingard and Periera that he is battling - and hard to create without a focal point in front of him. Certainly straight into the deep end



Dan2501 said:



			Arsenal sign Pablo Mari on loan from Flamengo with an option to buy. A 26 year old Spanish defender who was previously signed by Man City in 2016, never played a game for them, went on loan for 3 seasons before moving to Flamengo for £1m. Interesting, not sure he's the answer to their defensive problems, but Raul Sanllehi and Mikel Arteta may have seen something in him that Txiki and Pep didn't.
		
Click to expand...

Phil Vickery was impressed with him for Flamengo - was a key player in them winning the title and then the Copa - was very good in the Club World Cup final . And can he be any worse than Mustafi

In other news - Everton reject £85 mil bid for Richarlinson from Barcelona 😲 - well that’s a potential disruption - head turning for the player , and the club rejecting such a big bid


----------



## Wolf (Jan 29, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Arsenal sign Pablo Mari on loan from Flamengo with an option to buy. A 26 year old Spanish defender who was previously signed by Man City in 2016, never played a game for them, went on loan for 3 seasons before moving to Flamengo for £1m. Interesting, not sure he's the answer to their defensive problems, but Raul Sanllehi and Mikel Arteta may have seen something in him that Txiki and Pep didn't.
		
Click to expand...

They saw he is leaps and bounds better than Mustafi...

From what I saw of him at club world Cup he looks a decent CB and hopefully will improve our defence, even if he doesn't hes better than Mustafi.. Plus it doesn't matter if it didn't work out at city that's happened to many players before who went on to improve and become superb players, just look at De Bruyne & Salah neither cut it at Chelsea, yet a few years later back in the Premier and now are true world class players.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 29, 2020)

Mari's apparently not particularly quick, but reads the game well, has good positioning and is a superb passer. Not sure he's the answer to Arsenal's problems, but yeah, can't be much worse than Mustafi and is an area they're sorely lacking depth in. Interested to see him play again as can't say he particularly stood out to me in the Club WC Final - was Willian Arao that stood out most to me in the defensive half of the pitch. Interesting signing, and good bit of business for Arsenal, no risk for them given it's a loan with an option to buy.


----------



## pendodave (Jan 29, 2020)

I'm not sure what I've done to deserve it, but I shall leaving the haven of a rather decent pub shortly and gong to watch whu be run over by Liverpool. 

Still, at least I'll be able to comment on what's set before me...


----------



## Fade and Die (Jan 29, 2020)

pendodave said:



			I'm not sure what I've done to deserve it, but I shall leaving the haven of a rather decent pub shortly and gong to watch whu be run over by Liverpool.

Still, at least I'll be able to comment on what's set before me...
		
Click to expand...

Just leaving home myself ....... feel like I’m going to a public execution! 😮


----------



## Dando (Jan 29, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Just leaving home myself ....... feel like I’m going to a public execution! 😮
		
Click to expand...

I’m waiting for my West Ham supporting friend to arrive at the pub then we’re heading off to the ground via a few pubs


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 29, 2020)

Sky Sports reporting that Everton turned down an £85m bid from Barcelona for Richarlison. Absolutely insane money that, amazed we turned it down really. I love Richarlison, but £85m is so much money, and money that we could do a lot with. January probably not the right time to lose a player like Richy though, would be very tough to replace. Partly happy, partly surprised.


----------



## pendodave (Jan 29, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Just leaving home myself ....... feel like I’m going to a public execution! 😮
		
Click to expand...

Haha. Despite everything, there's a tiny  bit if me that hopes we bring them down!!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 29, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Sky Sports reporting that Everton turned down an £85m bid from Barcelona for Richarlison. Absolutely insane money that, amazed we turned it down really. I love Richarlison, but £85m is so much money, and money that we could do a lot with. January probably not the right time to lose a player like Richy though, would be very tough to replace. Partly happy, partly surprised.
		
Click to expand...

If it was at the beginning of the window then I suspect it would be the start of negotiations etc but can’t do a deal at this time of the window like that when he is the clubs main player but it’s prob the start of him leaving and I guess that means Dembele will be leaving


----------



## Dan2501 (Jan 29, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If it was at the beginning of the window then I suspect it would be the start of negotiations etc but can’t do a deal at this time of the window like that when he is the clubs main player but it’s prob the start of him leaving and I guess that means Dembele will be leaving
		
Click to expand...

Apparently they want him to cover Suarez who's out for the rest of the season, but doesn't seem like a like-for-like signing to me, even though Richy has been playing as a CF for us this season he is not a goalscorer of Suarez quality, nowhere near.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 29, 2020)

Not sure I believe Barca have made an offer, but if it’s true, I just seem to remember people laughing at us on here when we apparently paid waaaaayyy over the top for Richarlison,

Not bad doubling his value in less than  18 months.

Strange the offer was revealed by Sky News, no mention of it from Spanish media.

Unfortunately if he goes I’d want more  money because if he’s seen as a top player, how much would it cost to bring someone in at the same level and why would they join Everton at this moment in time.


----------



## fundy (Jan 29, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Apparently they want him to cover Suarez who's out for the rest of the season, but doesn't seem like a like-for-like signing to me, even though Richy has been playing as a CF for us this season he is not a goalscorer of Suarez quality, nowhere near.
		
Click to expand...


not exactly the first bullet (or probably the last) theyve reportedly made in trying to cover Suarez, not quite sure how many of them are actually true mind


----------



## Bazzatron (Jan 29, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Sky Sports reporting that Everton turned down an £85m bid from Barcelona for Richarlison. Absolutely insane money that, amazed we turned it down really. I love Richarlison, but £85m is so much money, and money that we could do a lot with. January probably not the right time to lose a player like Richy though, would be very tough to replace. Partly happy, partly surprised.
		
Click to expand...

I don't know which of that is most unbelievable in that deal, them for offering it or you lot for turning it down.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 29, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Apparently they want him to cover Suarez who's out for the rest of the season, but doesn't seem like a like-for-like signing to me, even though Richy has been playing as a CF for us this season he is not a goalscorer of Suarez quality, nowhere near.
		
Click to expand...

He is 22 ? Has certainly stepped up a level over the past 18 months and whilst not at the levels of Suarez ( not many are ) then he can certainly do a job for them - Barcelona seems to be throwing darts all over the place trying to get someone in - getting desperate with just 3 fit forwards at the moment


----------



## fundy (Jan 29, 2020)

Mari on loan and seems trying to do a similar deal for Soares

neither are a Upamecano or Koulibaly but at least were trying to strengthen the defense this time round!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 29, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Apparently they want him to cover Suarez who's out for the rest of the season, but doesn't seem like a like-for-like signing to me, even though Richy has been playing as a CF for us this season he is not a goalscorer of Suarez quality, nowhere near.
		
Click to expand...

He’s a very good player I think but his finishing isn’t there yet.
But 85 mil? He’s not worth that.
Surprised you said no.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 29, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			He’s a very good player I think but his finishing isn’t there yet.
But 85 mil? He’s not worth that.
Surprised you said no.
		
Click to expand...

We are holding out for 86m 😆


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 29, 2020)

Well the sit back lasted 35 mins

Fair one clear pen


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 29, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			He’s a very good player I think but his finishing isn’t there yet.
But 85 mil? He’s not worth that.
Surprised you said no.
		
Click to expand...

The bid apparently never happened now according to both clubs - it did seem quite a high bid , good player but £85 mil ! That seems crazy , even more so for Everton to turn it down


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 29, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Well the sit back lasted 35 mins

Fair one clear pen
		
Click to expand...

Would you take 1-0 bearing in mind GD at the end of the season especially if you get sucked into a relegation fight


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 29, 2020)

Very poor ref tonight.  Booking over not really a foul by noble 

Refs lost his head


----------



## Wolf (Jan 29, 2020)

Big week for West Ham especially if results go against them at the weekend they'll end up in the bottom 3, can really see them going down with Norwich and Bournemouth


----------



## pendodave (Jan 29, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Very poor ref tonight.  Booking over not really a foul by noble

Refs lost his head
		
Click to expand...

 Jon moss is, by some distance, the worst ref in the prem. And he has surpassed himself tonight.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 29, 2020)

online claiming Handball from Firminho in the build up to the pen

didnt look like it touched his arm when they reviewed it

I hate the handball rule.. just bugger off


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 29, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We are holding out for 86m 😆
		
Click to expand...

Or the extra £1?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Or the extra £1? 

Click to expand...

How about 85m and they have to take Niasse as well 😁? Okay then, 85m and a £1


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 29, 2020)

Type “empty seats” into google maps.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 29, 2020)

TAA almost own goal there after brilliant work from rice

At least we haven't given up


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 29, 2020)

Flippin eck, that was painful. I was ready to make me excuses saying it’s nice to see two mid table teams in the final. HVe City forgot how to shoot. 😳


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 29, 2020)

Never been so happy with a 2-0 defeat 

Thought would be 5 or more 

Thought we played on, defended well in the main and created a few chances .. still got the new midfielder to come in aswell and Antonio, Anderson both injured 

4 shots on target, Allison making 2 very good saves to stop us taking away the clean sheet at least 

Just looks better for the coming games


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 29, 2020)

Working late so missed the first half. Second half was a procession. Never got out of 2nd gear really.

Good to see Fab an Naby getting minutes. If only we had a easy cup game coming up to put more miles in their legs 😆


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 29, 2020)

Utd looking like they’re signing Fernandez. Only 2 players away from challenging now, good job we have a 427 point lead on them. Trembling.

😆


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 29, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Utd looking like they’re signing Fernandez. Only 2 players away from challenging now, good job we have a 427 point lead on them. Trembling.

😆
		
Click to expand...

city at times were fantastic, at times woeful, But Utd, where do you start. Shocking.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 29, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Working late so missed the first half. Second half was a procession. Never got out of 2nd gear really.

Good to see Fab an Naby getting minutes. If only we had a easy cup game coming up to put more miles in their legs 😆
		
Click to expand...

Yes I wonder if Klopp is bluffing and might play a few big boys who need game time.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 29, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Never been so happy with a 2-0 defeat

Thought would be 5 or more

Thought we played on, defended well in the main and created a few chances .. still got the new midfielder to come in aswell and Antonio, Anderson both injured

4 shots on target, Allison making 2 very good saves to stop us taking away the clean sheet at least

Just looks better for the coming games
		
Click to expand...

Been out only seen the highlights.
Looked like you had some good chances but the finishing wasn’t good.
Allison showing why Klopp waited for him. Some great saves.
Some strange ones from the ref???


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 29, 2020)

Choo Choo.......The Klopp Express rolls on.

Had to be patient tonight against a block of 10 men but we Controlled the game from start to finish. 

Another 3pts closer to operation unbearable😊

Why did klopp risk Mo and Bobby.....


----------



## Fade and Die (Jan 30, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Never been so happy with a 2-0 defeat

Thought would be 5 or more

Thought we played on, defended well in the main and created a few chances .. still got the new midfielder to come in aswell and Antonio, Anderson both injured

4 shots on target, Allison making 2 very good saves to stop us taking away the clean sheet at least

Just looks better for the coming games
		
Click to expand...

I thought Liverpool won it at a canter, never got out of 2nd gear. They really  didn’t need John Moss giving them every bloody decision! 

Moyes set us up to shithouse a draw, which rapidly turned into protecting the GD, I don’t blame him for that, I never thought we would go toe to toe with them, and who knows it might come down to GD at the end. 

Re the pen, was it really nailed on? The VAR decision seemed to take a long time to come through. We was wondering in the ground if it was a bit soft?


----------



## AmandaJR (Jan 30, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Flippin eck, that was painful. I was ready to make me excuses saying it’s nice to see two mid table teams in the final. HVe City forgot how to shoot. 😳
		
Click to expand...

Not just me then. Been a while since I felt so frustrated watching City. At one stage I almost turned over - so much faffing about and poor play in the final third. I was pretty sure we were heading for a penaly shoot-out.


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 30, 2020)

Turns out that Richarlison story was completely made up. I did think Barca would have been absolutely mental to chuck 85m at Richarlison. He's a decent player when in form but never Barca quality in a million years.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 30, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			I thought Liverpool won it at a canter, never got out of 2nd gear. They really  didn’t need John Moss giving them every bloody decision!

Moyes set us up to shithouse a draw, which rapidly turned into protecting the GD, I don’t blame him for that, I never thought we would go toe to toe with them, and who knows it might come down to GD at the end.

Re the pen, was it really nailed on? The VAR decision seemed to take a long time to come through. We was wondering in the ground if it was a bit soft?
		
Click to expand...

I don’t think it was the pen they were looking at but more the build up .
Any offside, was it handball by Firmino that’s what takes so long.


----------



## Fade and Die (Jan 30, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I don’t think it was the pen they were looking at but more the build up .
Any offside, was it handball by Firmino that’s what takes so long.
		
Click to expand...

Ah ok... The longer the delay the more you start thinking “Hello what’s going on?”


----------



## Slime (Jan 30, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			city at times were fantastic, at times woeful, *But Utd, where do you start. Shocking.*

Click to expand...

We won.


----------



## User62651 (Jan 30, 2020)

Back on ManCity tickets, sorry.
Gave up on getting Madrid tickets so instead got 5 seats at the Arsenal game on March 1st........or so I thought.
Read yesterday that the Carabou Cup final is also on the 1st March.
There was no mention of that when I booked the tickets on the ManCity website despite them being ahead after leg 1 of the semi final, there is now but that's too late.
WTF? 
Fortunately I hadn't booked any accomodation or trains etc. I'm 6+ hours away and others coming are 3 hours away so it needs a bit of organising.
Anyone care to guess when the ManC v Arsenal league game will be rescheduled for? There are no weekends available looking at fixtures so I guess that means it'll be midweek evening, Sunday was ideal tbh.
Seems ridiculous the ManC website didn't show a potential clash of dates given they were one game away from final.
will they refund with no fuss if dates don't work?
Unimpressed.


----------



## fundy (Jan 30, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			Back on ManCity tickets, sorry.
Gave up on getting Madrid tickets so instead got 5 seats at the Arsenal game on March 1st........or so I thought.
Read yesterday that the Carabou Cup final is also on the 1st March.
There was no mention of that when I booked the tickets on the ManCity website despite them being ahead after leg 1 of the semi final, there is now but that's too late.
WTF? 
Fortunately I hadn't booked any accomodation or trains etc. I'm 6+ hours away and others coming are 3 hours away so it needs a bit of organising.
Anyone care to guess when the ManC v Arsenal league game will be rescheduled for? There are no weekends available looking at fixtures so I guess that means it'll be midweek evening, Sunday was ideal tbh.
Seems ridiculous the ManC website didn't show a potential clash of dates given they were one game away from final.
will they refund with no fuss if dates don't work?
Unimpressed.
		
Click to expand...


Almost impossible to guess the date with both still in the FA Cup and Europe, will be a midweek evening but tough to work out which with FA Cup Champs League and Europa dates to avoid


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 30, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			Back on ManCity tickets, sorry.
Gave up on getting Madrid tickets so instead got 5 seats at the Arsenal game on March 1st........or so I thought.
Read yesterday that the Carabou Cup final is also on the 1st March.
There was no mention of that when I booked the tickets on the ManCity website despite them being ahead after leg 1 of the semi final, there is now but that's too late.
WTF?
Fortunately I hadn't booked any accomodation or trains etc. I'm 6+ hours away and others coming are 3 hours away so it needs a bit of organising.
Anyone care to guess when the ManC v Arsenal league game will be rescheduled for? There are no weekends available looking at fixtures so I guess that means it'll be midweek evening, Sunday was ideal tbh.
Seems ridiculous the ManC website didn't show a potential clash of dates given they were one game away from final.
will they refund with no fuss if dates don't work?
Unimpressed.
		
Click to expand...

Seems ridiculous that you didn’t know when the final is. Surely you need to take personal responsibility


----------



## User62651 (Jan 30, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Seems ridiculous that you didn’t know when the final is. Surely you need to take personal responsibility
		
Click to expand...

Would anyone have the Carabou cup in their diaries?

I'm not a football fan as such, been to one game since 1991.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 30, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			Would anyone have the Carabou cup in their diaries?

*I'm not a football fan as such, been to one game since 1991.*

Click to expand...

That’s one more than armchair Davemc1.


----------



## 3offTheTee (Jan 30, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			Would anyone have the Carabou cup in their diaries?

I'm not a football fan as such, been to one game since 1991.
		
Click to expand...

91 may be the last at the end of this season the way it is going.

so sorry to hear of your problem, hope you receive a refund or manage to see the game.

Why not try phoning them with some sob story, friends re unio, special occasion, travelling from afar and express disappoint. Then throw in you would like tickets for The Madrid game. Worth a tr.


----------



## User62651 (Jan 30, 2020)

3offTheTee said:



			91 may be the last at the end of this season the way it is going.

so sorry to hear of your problem, hope you receive a refund or manage to see the game.

Why not try phoning them with some sob story, friends re unio, special occasion, travelling from afar and express disappoint. Then throw in you would like tickets for The Madrid game. Worth a tr.
		
Click to expand...

Still want to go, just can't plan it having paid already. Maybe i did just walk into it but getting pressurised by the kids to go never crossed my mind about Carabou and website didn't mention it, I tried to sell them St Mirren but it didn't work!  Not like we live down the road from Etihad that's all. Also given Liverpool's massive lead unless City are struggling for top 4 or Arsenal are trying to sneak into top 4 it could just be a pre season-end dead rubber kickabout.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Choo Choo.......The Klopp Express rolls on.

Had to be patient tonight against a block of 10 men but we Controlled the game from start to finish.

Another 3pts closer to operation unbearable😊

Why did klopp risk Mo and Bobby.....
		
Click to expand...

You missed the Ox out.
What a great counter goal and top finish.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jan 30, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			You missed the Ox .
.
		
Click to expand...

I think thats Arsenal since they let him go


----------



## fundy (Jan 30, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I think thats Arsenal since they let him go

Click to expand...

the version we had not been missed at all!


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jan 30, 2020)

fundy said:



			the version we had not been missed at all!
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps it's the version that hadn't been encouraged out
No doubt a German has got the best out of him a French hasn't


----------



## fundy (Jan 30, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Perhaps it's the version that hadn't been encouraged out
No doubt a German has got the best out of him a French hasn't

Click to expand...

if thats the best already then at £30m+ we still got the better side of the deal, shame we wasted it lol

https://www.premierleague.com/players/4252/Alex-Oxlade-Chamberlain/overview

not much has changed stats wise has it, despite playing in a much better side


----------



## Wolf (Jan 30, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Perhaps it's the version that hadn't been encouraged out
No doubt a German has got the best out of him a French hasn't

Click to expand...

To be fair if this is the best of the Ox I'd still have taken the money. He's a squad player at best except at a lower table side where he would start regularly. He's not even top 3 in his position of England players let alone premier league players. Just a shame we spent the money on crap. 

Don't get me wrong he's a good back up but he's not a starter in most good teams and then theres his injuries...


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 30, 2020)

Have Paddy Power paid out on Liverpool yet.


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 30, 2020)

Wolf said:



			To be fair if this is the best of the Ox I'd still have taken the money. He's a squad player at best except at a lower table side where he would start regularly. He's not even top 3 in his position of England players let alone premier league players. Just a shame we spent the money on crap.

Don't get me wrong he's a good back up but he's not a starter in most good teams and then theres his injuries...
		
Click to expand...

I agree but I also think the Klopp system is so team-centric that having a few average players in the XI doesn’t drag it down the way other teams would be, so long as they’re well drilled in their role. I think Pep’s way, for example, is more reliant on individual brilliance.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 30, 2020)

Slime said:



			We won.
		
Click to expand...

your out.


----------



## pendodave (Jan 30, 2020)

I thought ox looked good last night. He seems perfect for his role there. Maybe it's one of those deals that works out good for both sides.

It's the first time I've seen this team live. Henderson is an interesting player. It's noticeable how many of his passes are forward, rather than sideways.

As for the irons... We are so slow getting the ball up the field - we can't pass it, because we only have 1 guy up there, and we have noone with the pace and strength to run with the ball (except Rice, but he is shackled to the back 4). It's not that they don't try, they're just not very good!


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 30, 2020)

pendodave said:



			I thought ox looked good last night. He seems perfect for his role there. Maybe it's one of those deals that works out good for both sides.

It's the first time I've seen this team live. Henderson is an interesting player. It's noticeable how many of his passes are forward, rather than sideways.

As for the irons... We are so slow getting the ball up the field - we can't pass it, because we only have 1 guy up there, and we have noone with the pace and strength to run with the ball (except Rice, but he is shackled to the back 4). It's not that they don't try, they're just not very good!
		
Click to expand...

I think it's going to be an interesting few months 

Jarrod Bowden suppose to be signing from hull which would be amazing 

This Czech midfielder looks the business 

Hopefully put noble on the bench and really add some quality next to rice with this Bowden taking lanzinis spot 

Really start to score some goals


----------



## fundy (Jan 30, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			I think it's going to be an interesting few months 

Jarrod Bowden suppose to be signing from hull which would be amazing 

This Czech midfielder looks the business 

Hopefully put noble on the bench and really add some quality next to rice with this Bowden taking lanzinis spot 

Really start to score some goals
		
Click to expand...


thought Bowen was supposed to be going to Palace?

decent player and definitely worth a chance at the price for me, albeit not that many make the step up from the championship that easily


----------



## pauljames87 (Jan 30, 2020)

fundy said:



			thought Bowen was supposed to be going to Palace?

decent player and definitely worth a chance at the price for me, albeit not that many make the step up from the championship that easily
		
Click to expand...

More and more players are making the step now days 

The championship is fastly becoming one of the most competitive league's in the world 

Exactly why we want to avoid going there lol

Palace have a bid but we are set to trump it

Apparently he is a summer target of ours and palace have forced our hand


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jan 30, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			your out.
		
Click to expand...

Was it a game of four halves.


----------



## fundy (Jan 30, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			More and more players are making the step now days 

The championship is fastly becoming one of the most competitive league's in the world 

Exactly why we want to avoid going there lol

Palace have a bid but we are set to trump it

Apparently he is a summer target of ours and palace have forced our hand
		
Click to expand...


Competitive for sure, not sure the quality is as high as many think though. I watch a lot of the championship and hes one of those im surprised hasnt been pursued before. Ollie Watkins at Brentford another that should be attracting some interest (and the clubs losing them should be looking at Ivan Toney from Pboro  )


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 30, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Was it a game of four halves.
		
Click to expand...

😂🤔👍


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jan 30, 2020)

Wolf said:



			To be fair if this is the best of the Ox I'd still have taken the money. He's a squad player at best except at a lower table side where he would start regularly. He's not even top 3 in his position of England players let alone premier league players. Just a shame we spent the money on crap.

Don't get me wrong he's a good back up but he's not a starter in most good teams and then theres his injuries...
		
Click to expand...

It’s not the best of Ox yet - when he arrived he was in and out of the team until towards the end of the season he was flying and scored some great goals and was key in wins that got us to the CL final - then he suffered that awful knee injury and has been trying to get back to top form since then - he has shown the odd glimpses but fingers crossed because if he gets through to the end of the season he will play for England and will prob start , then a good pre season and go again for us - he gives us an option in the middle and has done ok , certainly think he would still walk back in the Arsenal midfield.


----------



## fundy (Jan 30, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s not the best of Ox yet - when he arrived he was in and out of the team until towards the end of the season he was flying and scored some great goals and was key in wins that got us to the CL final - then he suffered that awful knee injury and has been trying to get back to top form since then - he has shown the odd glimpses but fingers crossed because if he gets through to the end of the season he will play for England and will prob start , then a good pre season and go again for us - he gives us an option in the middle and has done ok , certainly think he would still walk back in the Arsenal midfield.
		
Click to expand...

wouldnt fit into our midfield, as he didnt before he left tbh, shown the odd glimpses is what hes always done without ever kicking on to a higher consistent level, i like him and hope he does but still to be convinced that he will especially after the setback of the injury

still beggars belief we got over 30m for him and nothing for Ramsey


----------



## Slime (Jan 30, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			your out.
		
Click to expand...

I know ............................. but we won.


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 31, 2020)

Apparently Spurs have had a fee agreed for Giroud! I'd be very happy with that. Can't believe that Chelsea are going to sanction that, even if we do have six points to make up - I thought they'd rather we attempted it without a striker! Unless he's coming in as an enemy agent to sabotage us... Anyway, would be a good signing to give us a proper forward while Kane is out.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 31, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Apparently Spurs have had a fee agreed for Giroud! I'd be very happy with that. Can't believe that Chelsea are going to sanction that, even if we do have six points to make up - I thought they'd rather we attempted it without a striker! Unless he's coming in as an enemy agent to sabotage us... Anyway, would be a good signing to give us a proper forward while Kane is out. 

Click to expand...

He doesn't really score goals though does he? Good hold up play, brings others into the game but is not going to bulge the net too often. Another Llorente for you. Gets you through to the end of the season I suppose


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He doesn't really score goals though does he? Good hold up play, brings others into the game but is not going to bulge the net too often. Another Llorente for you. Gets you through to the end of the season I suppose
		
Click to expand...

I think he’s got a better goal threat than llorente. Also fits the mourning mould. Hard working as helps facilitate the midfielders getting goals.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 31, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I think he’s got a better goal threat than llorente. Also fits the mourning mould. Hard working as *helps facilitate the midfielders getting goals*.
		
Click to expand...

That is fine as long as that is what his role is. If they want him to score 8-10 goals by the end of the season then he is not the person for it. If Spurs have the midfielders to feed off him then he is ideal. He is a classy player, he has just forgotten how to score.

I think it says something if Chelsea are happy to loan him to Spurs.


----------



## Orikoru (Jan 31, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He doesn't really score goals though does he? Good hold up play, brings others into the game but is not going to bulge the net too often. Another Llorente for you. Gets you through to the end of the season I suppose
		
Click to expand...

It's better than zero strikers for the next two/three months. Dele plays well if you get him close to a target man, Son needs someone to feed off as he gets lost if he is the front man, and Lucas obviously doesn't have the size to hold up the ball, win headers etc. So Giroud will be useful as a focal point. (Oh and Giroud is a much better footballer than Llorente.)


----------



## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That is fine as long as that is what his role is. If they want him to score 8-10 goals by the end of the season then he is not the person for it. If Spurs have the midfielders to feed off him then he is ideal. He is a classy player, he has just forgotten how to score.

I think it says something if Chelsea are happy to loan him to Spurs.
		
Click to expand...

I think what orikuru says is about right. Nobody is gonna replace Kane, but Son, lamela, dele. All need a player to play behind. 

In other news. Joshua King back to UTD pmsl


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 31, 2020)

Fair enough. I don't see you often enough to know your style of play. He is a quality hold up player so that may well suit.

Very quiet window so far. All very calm.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 31, 2020)

Boring James Milner

@BoringMilner
·
It may be deadline day but I won't be going anywhere. I've just managed to get on first AND last name terms with the postman and I can't deal with the upheaval of having to get to know another one at a new address.


He keeps delivering


----------



## Wolf (Jan 31, 2020)

Giroud going nowhere according to Lamoard at todays press conference couple of hours agi stating no ins or outs and Chelsea today and Giroud had just trained for the weekends game


----------



## fundy (Jan 31, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Eh Fundy looking good value now 🤞🏻😉
		
Click to expand...


20s they win by 1-10 points and 33s they dont win if you dont think hedges are only for gardens Stu


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jan 31, 2020)

I've discovered a way to keep the league title race interesting.......


----------



## davemc1 (Jan 31, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I've discovered a way to keep the league title race interesting.......

View attachment 29074

Click to expand...

You can give Norwich to City 😃


----------



## Tashyboy (Jan 31, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I've discovered a way to keep the league title race interesting.......

View attachment 29074


Liverpool + VAR 😳= 70 points.😁
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 31, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I've discovered a way to keep the league title race interesting.......

View attachment 29074

Click to expand...

Norwich, Bournemouth and Everton could keep us on our toes, as well.


----------



## Kellfire (Jan 31, 2020)

Ighalo


----------



## Wolf (Jan 31, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Ighalo 

Click to expand...

Desperation signing


----------



## Stuart_C (Jan 31, 2020)

fundy said:



			20s they win by 1-10 points and 33s they dont win if you dont think hedges are only for gardens Stu 

Click to expand...

No chance I’m hedging, I’m letting it ride 😁

i Backed over 100pts aswell @40’s


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jan 31, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Desperation signing
		
Click to expand...

Desperate times


----------



## Fish (Feb 1, 2020)

Whilst we need some experienced and proven players to strengthen the talented, but young team & squad we have, I’m pleased we didn’t panic buy, that, on experience, doesn’t work, so I’m happy to battle on with what we have and build in the summer and then go all out for the players that are best suited for us whilst releasing at least 3 possibly 4 players and become the challengers I believe we can.


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 1, 2020)

All in all a good window for us

Roberto loaned out.. thank goodness.. couldnt catch coronavirus

Replaced him with Randolph. Good second choice goalkeeper.. still popular in the dressing room from his previous speall

young Czech central midfielder Thomas Soucek. should add some steal and depth to our midfield. 

then finally we added Bowen late last night.. 23 year old very talented winger/striker.. 52 goals in 120 odd games in the championship which isnt a bad return at all

we need to beat brighton today

then we got 2 tough games.. hopefully by then our injuries should clear a bit and we can finally see this kind of formation

-----------------------Fabainski

Fredericks----Diop---Ogbonna----Arthur 

----------------Rice (c) -- Soucek

Bowen------------Antonio-------Anderson

-------------------Haller

that front 3 behind the striker can litterally all interchange at any time but the 2 holding players providing defensive cover


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 1, 2020)

Ighalo is an anagram of Hi Goal. 

Think about it.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 1, 2020)

Well that’s certainly an interesting deadline day - well if you look at Man Utd and the way they desperately scratched around for a striker and ended up with Ighalo 😂😂 , what a change it is when they are acting in this way , all the desperation. I don’t see think they have done enough to improve to bridge the gap to the top 4 

West Ham has brought in a number of players - no idea about the Czech guy but Bowen from Hull is very highly rated - have they done enough to stay up ?

Sheff Utd getting Berge is a superb buy - that’s one of the best of the window 

Spurs - let two full backs leave so left with just Aurier and Davies ? They seemed to have weakened during the window

Not sure there was really much else that went on and definatley no real eye opening signings


----------



## Wolf (Feb 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well that’s certainly an interesting deadline day - well if you look at Man Utd and the way they desperately scratched around for a striker and ended up with Ighalo 😂😂 , what a change it is when they are acting in this way , all the desperation. I don’t see think they have done enough to improve to bridge the gap to the top 4

West Ham has brought in a number of players - no idea about the Czech guy but Bowen from Hull is very highly rated - have they done enough to stay up ?

Sheff Utd getting Berge is a superb buy - that’s one of the best of the window

Spurs - let two full backs leave so left with just Aurier and Davies ? They seemed to have weakened during the window

Not sure there was really much else that went on and definatley no real eye opening signings
		
Click to expand...

The January window has been getting more and more boring last few years. 

Ighalo a pure desperation loan signing for Utdd, can't see him improving their chances of top. 

Spurs getting weaker with no real goal threat now and less defensive options, bet Jose is happy 😂

West Ham can't see it being enough or maybe its just me hoping they go down🤞

We finally made 2 signings in an area that's been weak for years so hopefully we've improved a little and both turn out to add something to the squad, from what ive seen of Mari he should do well, or at least better than what we had in Mustafi, don't know enough about Soares to comment.  But overall a bang average transfer window where no team got any stronger.


----------



## Robin Hood (Feb 1, 2020)

I am very happy with Newcastles new signings.
Pity that Giroud didn't want to join us - his loss !
"Toon Toon Black n White Army"


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 1, 2020)

Glad to see we shipped out two burdens on the wage bill. Yoshida, brilliant servant that he was, simply wasn't good enough. Probably earned us a few quid from shirts though.... 

Cedric Soares hasn't wanted out for a few seasons now and hasn't loved up to his first season tbh. Spent the last few months being quiet thiugh and knuckled down. So good luck to him. Not sure he's top four quality, but then again. He's not signed for a top 4 club 😂

Would have liked to have seen a cb come in, and maybe to have loaned Che Adams out. He's worked hard, but appears to be another Shane long. Except he's got a strop on for not getting more game time.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 1, 2020)

Robin Hood said:



			I am very happy with Newcastles new signings.
Pity that Giroud didn't want to join us - his loss !
"Toon Toon Black n White Army"
		
Click to expand...

Rose was a very good signing that slipped under the radar. Surprised you didn't go for an on loan striker to see you through the rest of the season. Benteleb is a free hit and worth a go. Could be inspired but if not nothing much lost. 

I think teams have learnt a bit about this window. You rarely get a good signing, loans are best. You do your best signings in the summer not January.


----------



## Slime (Feb 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well that’s certainly an interesting deadline day - well if you look at Man Utd and *the way they desperately scratched around for a striker* and ended up with Ighalo 😂😂 , what a change it is when they are acting in this way , all the desperation.
		
Click to expand...

Have a good day, Phil.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 1, 2020)

Slime said:



			Have a good day, Phil. 

Click to expand...

🤔 not sure what was the point in replying if that’s all you can say ? 

The did scratch around for a striker did they not ? What was Ighalo - 6th ? 7th choice ?


----------



## Slime (Feb 1, 2020)

It's appearing a bit of an obsession, but never mind.
Yeah, United definitely have been scratching around for a striker, I'd have liked them to have got Giroud.
Decent strikers are like hens' teeth in this window, scratching around was their only real option.
The Rashford injury forced their hand a bit late in the day, but, if Woodward had not been so picky, we may well have ended up with Haaland.
With Ighalo, at least he's a striker so, when we need to we can play him as one. A square peg for a square hole.
We had to get someone. Imagine if Martial or Greenwood picked up an injury!
All things considered, a very reasonable window for United.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 1, 2020)

Slime said:



			It's appearing a bit of an obsession, but never mind.
Yeah, United definitely have been scratching around for a striker, I'd have liked them to have got Giroud.
Decent strikers are like hens' teeth in this window, scratching around was their only real option.
The Rashford injury forced their hand a bit late in the day, but, if Woodward had not been so picky, we may well have ended up with Haaland.
With Ighalo, at least he's a striker so, when we need to we can play him as one. A square peg for a square hole.
We had to get someone. Imagine if Martial or Greenwood picked up an injury!
All things considered, a very reasonable window for United.
		
Click to expand...

Obsession ? Stop being so precious - it’s football talk and right now UTD are shocking and everything they do is highlighted because 99% of the time is showing the club to be an embarrassment- the fans , the players , the owners and the manager.
For decades UTD dominated and we all had to put up with the arrogance of UTD fans all driven from their manager who dominated the club and the Prem League - as each season went by UTD fans pointed fingers at Liverpool for the way we were going about things and always falling short - there are countless comments from people like Giggs “UTD will never drop like Liverpool “ etc so when UTD do drop and go through manager after manager - money after money and end up with one of the most expensive but worst squads ( of the top teams ) being run by a manager who is clearly so far out of his depth it’s going to be time for over fans to stand over and point and laugh and enjoy the suffering.

Watching UTD act like they are is enjoyable to see - it’s a shame right now they just aren’t really a threat which shows how far backwards they have gone over the last 3 years ? 36 points behind already - what’s it going to be at the end 😲😂😂

No doubt If the situations were reversed then we would need to “suck it up”

Remember all the stuff being posted when we signed people like Lambert and Balotelli etc


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Obsession ? Stop being so precious - it’s football talk and right now UTD are shocking and everything they do is highlighted because 99% of the time is showing the club to be an embarrassment- the fans , the players , the owners and the manager.
For decades UTD dominated and we all had to put up with the arrogance of UTD fans all driven from their manager who dominated the club and the Prem League - as each season went by UTD fans pointed fingers at Liverpool for the way we were going about things and always falling short - there are countless comments from people like Giggs “UTD will never drop like Liverpool “ etc so when UTD do drop and go through manager after manager - money after money and end up with one of the most expensive but worst squads ( of the top teams ) being run by a manager who is clearly so far out of his depth it’s going to be time for over fans to stand over and point and laugh and enjoy the suffering.

Watching UTD act like they are is enjoyable to see - it’s a shame right now they just aren’t really a threat which shows how far backwards they have gone over the last 3 years ? 36 points behind already - what’s it going to be at the end 😲😂😂

No doubt If the situations were reversed then we would need to “suck it up”

Remember all the stuff being posted when we signed people like Lambert and Balotelli etc
		
Click to expand...

But you didn’t “suck it up”
You whinged about it and played the poor us card👍🏻


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 1, 2020)

How the hell do you pick a acca in today’s prem fixtures?
Think I’ll look championship & league 1 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Slime (Feb 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Obsession ? Stop being so precious *- it’s football talk and right now UTD are shocking and everything they do is highlighted because 99% of the time is showing the club to be an embarrassment- the fans , the players , the owners and the manager.
For decades UTD dominated and we all had to put up with the arrogance of UTD fans all driven from their manager who dominated the club and the Prem League - as each season went by UTD fans pointed fingers at Liverpool for the way we were going about things and always falling short - there are countless comments from people like Giggs “UTD will never drop like Liverpool “ etc so when UTD do drop and go through manager after manager - money after money and end up with one of the most expensive but worst squads ( of the top teams ) being run by a manager who is clearly so far out of his depth it’s going to be time for over fans to stand over and point and laugh and enjoy the suffering.

Watching UTD act like they are is enjoyable to see - it’s a shame right now they just aren’t really a threat which shows how far backwards they have gone over the last 3 years ? 36 points behind already - what’s it going to be at the end 😲😂😂

*No doubt If the situations were reversed then we would need to “suck it up”*

Remember all the stuff being posted when we signed people like Lambert and Balotelli etc
		
Click to expand...

Precious, you're having a laugh.
If the situations were reversed I still talk about my club a whole lot more than yours.

Oh, and why is OGS "clearly so far out of his depth"?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 1, 2020)

Slime said:



			Precious, you're having a laugh.
If the situations were reversed I still talk about my club a whole lot more than yours.

Oh, and why is OGS "clearly so far out of his depth"?
		
Click to expand...

I don’t talk about UTD more than my own club - it prob seems that way to you because you react whenever I bring UTD into it - but when your team is doing that bad it’s easy to see why that would happen - when the club keep creating the headlines then people will talk about them - it’s the gift that keeps giving. 

Umm maybe the fact he has lost more games that he has actually won and his previous job in the Prem was to be relegated - for all the other teams he is doing a great job. If UTD fans are happy with him then all the better for us because I’m confident that OGS will not have the team challenging for any major trophies regardless of what he spends ( and he has spent a good deal )


----------



## Slime (Feb 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don’t talk about UTD more than my own club - it prob seems that way to you *because you react whenever I bring UTD into it *- but when your team is doing that bad it’s easy to see why that would happen - when the club keep creating the headlines then people will talk about them - it’s the gift that keeps giving.

Umm maybe the fact he has lost more games that he has actually won and his previous job in the Prem was to be relegated - for all the other teams he is doing a great job. If UTD fans are happy with him then all the better for us because I’m confident that OGS will not have the team challenging for any major trophies regardless of what he spends ( and he has spent a good deal )
		
Click to expand...

I don't, fact.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 1, 2020)

Slime said:



			Precious, you're having a laugh.
If the situations were reversed I still talk about my club a whole lot more than yours.

Oh, and why is OGS "clearly so far out of his depth"?
		
Click to expand...

No point getting in an argument with LP ,you could write what he knows(without google) on a postage stamp and still have room for all his football achievements.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 1, 2020)

My biggest fear re VAR was this situation. And I have gone on record and said as such on here. Player goes down in box. Should be a penalty, ball goes up other end and other team scores. What does VAR do. Well apparently it has happened today.. Where? Liverpool v Saints, Ings brought down by Firmino.

Looking forward to MOTD and another 5 pages on here saying why it was or was not a penalty.


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 1, 2020)

VAR again doesn't know it's job

That's hand ball all day long 

3-1 crusing 

Comical defending 3-2

Then hand ball in the box 

Discusting 

Thought VAR was full proof. Wasn't even in the build up.. handball from Murray then scores


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 1, 2020)

Etihad south awaits. Not goin though 😉😁


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 1, 2020)




----------



## davemc1 (Feb 1, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			My biggest fear re VAR was this situation. And I have gone on record and said as such on here. Player goes down in box. Should be a penalty, ball goes up other end and other team scores. What does VAR do. Well apparently it has happened today.. Where? Liverpool v Saints, Ings brought down by Firmino.

Looking forward to MOTD and another 5 pages on here saying why it was or was not a penalty.
		
Click to expand...

Only seen it once, of course with a natural bias, but not a pen for me. 
Im calling var on your post, as it was Fabinho with the non pen 😃


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 1, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Only seen it once, of course with a natural bias, but not a pen for me.
Im calling var on your post, as it was Fabinho with the non pen 😃
		
Click to expand...

honestly don’t know if it is or isn’t Dave. That’s why am looking forward to MOTD. But it’s a scenario that under the present climate is going to happen And it’s gonna be ugly.Watch this space.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 1, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			My biggest fear re VAR was this situation. And I have gone on record and said as such on here. Player goes down in box. Should be a penalty, ball goes up other end and other team scores. What does VAR do. Well apparently it has happened today.. Where? Liverpool v Saints, Ings brought down by Firmino.

Looking forward to MOTD and another 5 pages on here saying why it was or was not a penalty.
		
Click to expand...

I saw the first goal in the clubhouse on my mates phone and wondered what var was doing. Guess it’ll be one of those incidents where it happened to many stages previously. Which begs the question why var didn’t look in the first place. 
‘Maybe the fact it’s for a small club against a big club is a coincidence...

Like I said, only saw one shot of it, so stand to be corrected if a, it wasn’t a one, or b, they did actually look.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 1, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I saw the first goal in the clubhouse on my mates phone and wondered what var was doing. Guess it’ll be one of those incidents where it happened to many stages previously. Which begs the question why var didn’t look in the first place.
‘Maybe the fact it’s for a small club against a big club is a coincidence...

Like I said, only saw one shot of it, so stand to be corrected if a, it wasn’t a one, or b, they did actually look.
		
Click to expand...

VAR looked at both penalty incidents ( they always look at each goal ) and decided not to overrule the referee- haven’t seen how much contact Fabinho made with Ings but Stephens made enough on Firmino 

It’s prob those incidents where the VAR is not going overrule the on field ref and it’s prob down to ref interpretation- if both were given then I doubt they would have overruled them and they both would have been soft


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			VAR looked at both penalty incidents ( they always look at each goal ) and decided not to overrule the referee- haven’t seen how much contact Fabinho made with Ings but Stephens made enough on Firmino

It’s prob those incidents where the VAR is not going overrule the on field ref and it’s prob down to ref interpretation- if both were given then I doubt they would have overruled them and they both would have been soft
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough. Like said I saw one replay on a phone and it showed the start of your attack.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 1, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			My biggest fear re VAR was this situation. And I have gone on record and said as such on here. Player goes down in box. Should be a penalty, ball goes up other end and other team scores. What does VAR do. Well apparently it has happened today.. Where? Liverpool v Saints, Ings brought down by Firmino.

Looking forward to MOTD and another 5 pages on here saying why it was or was not a penalty.
		
Click to expand...

Firstly it was Fabinho.

Secondly, no mention of Firminho getting wrestled to the ground on 30 minutes for what was a definite pen?

It would look like a better argument if you said how VAR may have gotten it wrong twice.

So everytime a player goes down in the box, its a pen - go away, soft arse.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 1, 2020)

Choo Choo...... The Klopp Express rolls onto Norwich unbeaten.

I thought we were slow today in the 1st half like we played in 1st gear, though Southampton played very well to be fair.
2nd half we Got into our rhythm and finished the game off.

As for the ings/Fabinho pen, it wasn’t a pen and Ings made a meal of it. It was embarrassing.

Anyway, 21pts until operation unbearable commences 😀


----------



## fundy (Feb 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Choo Choo...... The Klopp Express rolls onto Norwich unbeaten.

I thought we were slow today in the 1st half like we played in 1st gear, though Southampton played very well to be fair.
2nd half we Got into our rhythm and finished the game off.

As for the ings/Fabinho pen, it wasn’t a pen and Ings made a meal of it. It was embarrassing.

Anyway, 21pts until operation unbearable commences 😀
		
Click to expand...

commences lol, its long since started


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Choo Choo...... The Klopp Express rolls onto Norwich unbeaten.

I thought we were slow today in the 1st half like we played in 1st gear, though Southampton played very well to be fair.
2nd half we Got into our rhythm and finished the game off.

As for the ings/Fabinho pen, it wasn’t a pen and Ings made a meal of it. It was embarrassing.

Anyway, 21pts until operation unbearable commences 😀
		
Click to expand...

You do realise that the forum has 500 railway and train jokes stored up don't you? 

Soton gave better than they got 1st half, very impressive.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 1, 2020)

The worst thing about today was that a skate scored the opener 😂😂😂

On a different subject. Ole et all have said how Greenwood is the next big thing. So why is he constantly benched?


----------



## davemc1 (Feb 1, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			The worst thing about today was that a skate scored the opener 😂😂😂

On a different subject. Ole et all have said how Greenwood is the next big thing. So why is he constantly benched?
		
Click to expand...

Cos he’s only 12? 😆


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 1, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			No point getting in an argument with LP ,you could write what he knows(without google) on a postage stamp and still have room for all his football achievements.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂Stick to hockey Phil 😁


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			commences lol, *its long since started*

Click to expand...

Just the tip of the iceberg that fundy 😉


----------



## fundy (Feb 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Just the tip of the iceberg that fundy 😉
		
Click to expand...

i know, thats why i took out the insurance bet


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 1, 2020)

Don't fret sir, when it obliges there'll be the finest bottle of  Aldi's fizz winging it's way to Mudeford 😉


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Firstly it was Fabinho.

Secondly, no mention of Firminho getting wrestled to the ground on 30 minutes for what was a definite pen?

It would look like a better argument if you said how VAR may have gotten it wrong twice.

So everytime a player goes down in the box, its a pen - go away, soft arse.
		
Click to expand...

LB, here we go again. Every time you read a post that mentions Liverpool you play the Victim. Yes I will say it out loud. The victim. I have no quarrel with whatever team it is and that includes Liverpool. Although with your rose tinted Liverpool glasses you will find that hard to believe. My grief is with the situation in which this arose. And which has now possibly happened. I saw it nearly happen when Utd beat City. I saw Rashford go down, ref gave no penalty and City nearly scored at the other end. How was that right. It wasn’t. Oh look a City fan saying Utd should of had a penalty.  And IF and I have said this before, if it shows on MOTD that it should of been a penalty. Then such an occasion should be stopped from happening in the future.  Unless it benefits Liverpool. Is that what you are saying. For the record, your now blocked. I am fed up of reading your victim crap every time your club is mentioned. But before I go a bit of advice try having a grown up discussion. Without having to name call. 
And just for you I have typed this slowly so you can read it. 😉
oh look a couple of likes are from Liverpool fans, who would of thought that.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 1, 2020)

Anyone got links to both the incidents?

Been told I’m having a sleepover in the front room this evening and not sure motd is on the cards.....


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 1, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Anyone got links to both the incidents?

Been told I’m having a sleepover in the front room this evening and not sure motd is on the cards.....
		
Click to expand...

Wife got the controls again


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 1, 2020)

Great comeback from Everton especially down to 10 men. Is Ancelotti getting them moving forward. Up to 9th and only three points off 5th.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 1, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Wife got the controls again 

Click to expand...

Haha

Nope. My daughters. 

Cluedo, karaoke and a putting comp on my PuttOut Matt. Plus mocktials for the girls and beer for me 😂😂


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 1, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Great comeback from Everton especially down to 10 men. Is Ancelotti getting them moving forward. Up to 9th and only three points off 5th.
		
Click to expand...

We couldn't come from behind under Silva, something that has thankfully changed. We still have issues that need looking at in the summer but the ship has definitely been corrected.

The fact that we are so close to 5th says a great deal about the standard of the league this year. Not vintage.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We couldn't come from behind under Silva, something that has thankfully changed. We still have issues that need looking at in the summer but the ship has definitely been corrected.

The fact that we are so close to 5th says a great deal about the standard of the league this year. Not vintage.
		
Click to expand...

I agree about the quality this season. I didn't see you do much in the window so can Ancelotti get the best from what you have now? What do you need to buy in the summer and is their cash there to do it?


----------



## davemc1 (Feb 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We couldn't come from behind under Silva, something that has thankfully changed. We still have issues that need looking at in the summer but the ship has definitely been corrected.

The fact that we are so close to 5th says a great deal about the standard of the league this year. Not vintage.
		
Click to expand...

Eh you with your non vintage nonsense! Been waiting 30 yrs for this!! ☹️

😆


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 1, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			LB, here we go again. Every time you read a post that mentions Liverpool you play the Victim. Yes I will say it out loud. The victim. I have no quarrel with whatever team it is and that includes Liverpool. Although with your rose tinted Liverpool glasses you will find that hard to believe. My grief is with the situation in which this arose. And which has now possibly happened. I saw it nearly happen when Utd beat City. I saw Rashford go down, ref gave no penalty and City nearly scored at the other end. How was that right. It wasn’t. Oh look a City fan saying Utd should of had a penalty.  And IF and I have said this before, if it shows on MOTD that it should of been a penalty. Then such an occasion should be stopped from happening in the future.  Unless it benefits Liverpool. Is that what you are saying. For the record, your now blocked. I am fed up of reading your victim crap every time your club is mentioned. But before I go a bit of advice try having a grown up discussion. Without having to name call.
And just for you I have typed this slowly so you can read it. 😉
*oh look a couple of likes are from Liverpool fans*, who would of thought that.
		
Click to expand...

The sycophantic likes crack me up


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 1, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			LB, here we go again. Every time you read a post that mentions Liverpool you play the Victim. Yes I will say it out loud. The victim. I have no quarrel with whatever team it is and that includes Liverpool. Although with your rose tinted Liverpool glasses you will find that hard to believe. My grief is with the situation in which this arose. And which has now possibly happened. I saw it nearly happen when Utd beat City. I saw Rashford go down, ref gave no penalty and City nearly scored at the other end. How was that right. It wasn’t. Oh look a City fan saying Utd should of had a penalty.  And IF and I have said this before, if it shows on MOTD that it should of been a penalty. Then such an occasion should be stopped from happening in the future.  Unless it benefits Liverpool. Is that what you are saying. For the record, your now blocked. I am fed up of reading your victim crap every time your club is mentioned. But before I go a bit of advice try having a grown up discussion. Without having to name call.
And just for you I have typed this slowly so you can read it. 😉
oh look a couple of likes are from Liverpool fans, who would of thought that.
		
Click to expand...

wow I agree with a scab 😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 1, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Anyone got links to both the incidents?

Been told I’m having a sleepover in the front room this evening and not sure motd is on the cards.....
		
Click to expand...

I was in the upper Anny today both were right in front of me. Stephens(I think) impeded Firmino from jumping for a ball that was crossed and looked like a blatant foul. fabinho tackled Ings on the edge of the box and fell backwards, Ings then went down in installments about 5 yards behind fabinho.
The above was in real time and I haven’t seen them since though just heard Linekers comments suggesting both were pens.🤷‍♂️


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I was in the upper Anny today both were right in front of me. Stephens(I think) impeded Firmino from jumping for a ball that was crossed and looked like a blatant foul. fabinho tackled Ings on the edge of the box and fell backwards, Ings then went down in installments about 5 yards behind fabinho.
The above was in real time and I haven’t seen them since though just heard Linekers comments suggesting both were pens.🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

tbh mate. Losing today doesn’t really bother me, I’m not silly enough to think even at 1 up (if your pen wasn’t given and ours was) we’d have necessarily won. Just curious if ours was even reviewed...


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 1, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I agree about the quality this season. I didn't see you do much in the window so can Ancelotti get the best from what you have now? What do you need to buy in the summer and is their cash there to do it?
		
Click to expand...

Past January buys have generally not worked well so I am happy for us to save our money and make better quality buys in the summer. Plan and buy well rather than make panic buys.

We have enough in the team to finish top half this year but not top 5. We should have been able to based on the rest of the league this year but we messed up the first half of the season. Ancelotti has put round pegs in round holes, looked at the players we have and is playing to their strengths rather than forcing them to play to a style they are not suited to. Not rocket science but so many managers don't follow this simple method. Listening to him talk he breaks the game down in such an easy way, it makes sense.

What do we need, mmmmm. More creativity in the middle definitely, partly sorted when Gomes comes back. Sigurdsson hasn't done the job we bought him for so that needs resolving. We haven't successfully replaced Gueye, Schneiderlin has had his chance and not taken it so that's another area to look at. An older striker than the two youngsters we have, one with a bit more of a goal scorers nose. Calvert-Lewin has come on well, jury is out on Keane, but if CL isn't scoring we don't have someone yet to challenge or replace him.

The cash will be there. They will need to offload some players,  FFP reasons, but the new owner has money and is willing to spend it. I also can't believe that we would have got Ancelotti and then told him that he wont be able to spend this summer. Hopefully no more Iwobi's though 🙄.

Are your mob going to join us next season? You are quietly getting there.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 1, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Eh you with your non vintage nonsense! Been waiting 30 yrs for this!! ☹️

😆
		
Click to expand...

Ha ha. Nothing non vintage about what your mob are doing. The fault is with 5th and down and how we are playing, not how you are playing.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 1, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			tbh mate. Losing today doesn’t really bother me, I’m not silly enough to think even at 1 up (if your pen wasn’t given and ours was) we’d have necessarily won. Just curious if ours was even reviewed...
		
Click to expand...

as far as I’m aware all pen shouts are reviewed regardless of how much Klopp has paid the VAR officials 😉

Southampton were dangerous today, looked solid and created a few bits aswell.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			as far as I’m aware all pen shouts are reviewed regardless of how much Klopp has paid the VAR officials 😉

Southampton were dangerous today, looked solid and created a few bits aswell.
		
Click to expand...

Has he actually paid em, or just had a quiet chat to disrupt em? 😂😂

mate at golf gutted today. Had liverpool btts for a tidy profit In an accumulator.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 1, 2020)

JamesR said:



			I don’t want to suggest that you might be whingeing unnecessarily, but wouldn’t VAR have checked both incidents...and before you accuse me of being a victim, rose tinted or any other pathetic names, *I’m a Burnley/Derby fan*

Click to expand...

What did you do in a previous life to deserve supporting those clubs?😁


----------



## Piece (Feb 1, 2020)

Woah, full on charity day at The Vic. 😳
Even Speedo Mick turned up to complete the set. 🙄


----------



## fundy (Feb 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			What did you do in a previous life to deserve supporting those clubs?😁
		
Click to expand...

i nearly joked that at least one of his sides had won this weekend before not tempting fate lol


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 1, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Has he actually paid em, or just had a quiet chat to disrupt em? 😂😂

mate at golf gutted today. *Had liverpool btts for a tidy profit In an accumulator.*

Click to expand...

According to the conspiracy theorists 😂

It pays to do a bit of research.....since 1st December we’ve only conceded 3 league goals😉


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Are your mob going to join us next season? You are quietly getting there.
		
Click to expand...

Would be nice and we are doing OK but still capable of losing silly games. We won't go up by right so anything can happen once you get into the play-offs and Fulham never do things easily. I think we have some good players but the fear is how much depth we'll have and will we be strong enough. Not sure we will and really don't want to become one of these constant yo-yo sides. Also not 100% convinced Parker has enough experience about him as well. We'll see. 

As an outsider, Everton look like one of those sides that are capable of building a decent squad and getting to the edges of the top 6 again, maybe even win a cup, so hopefully Ancelotti will get the cash and more importantly the time to do the job


----------



## Fish (Feb 1, 2020)

I’ve watched the Ings incident twice now, and I’d never have given a pen for it, don’t care what pundits might say, it’s subjective and strikers are biased to other strikers and come out with shite like, ‘if he feels contact he has the right and should go down’, this from the likes of Shearer, but imo it’s a contact sport and there’s a difference between contact and a foul, and Ings wasn’t fouled imo.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			What did you do in a previous life to deserve supporting those clubs?😁
		
Click to expand...

Dad’s from Trawden, near Burnley.
I’m Derby born & bred!

I couldn’t be one of those glory supporters, who live nowhere near a place but claim to have been a fan for life - so many Utd, Citeh and Liverpool fans with absolutely no links to the place


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			According to the conspiracy theorists 😂

It pays to do a bit of research.....since 1st December we’ve only conceded 3 league goals😉
		
Click to expand...

i did say that (well, that your defence and tightened up, didn’t have exact detail). Tbf, think he was more banking on the fact we had only fired blanks in like 17 games.


----------



## fundy (Feb 1, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Dad’s from Trawden, near Burnley.
I’m Derby born & bred!

I couldn’t be one of those glory supporters, who live nowhere near a place but claim to have been a fan for life - so many Utd, Citeh and Liverpool fans with absolutely no links to the place
		
Click to expand...

thats no way to talk about half this thread


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			I’ve watched the Ings incident twice now, and I’d never have given a pen for it, don’t care what pundits might say, it’s subjective and strikers are biased to other strikers and come out with shite like, ‘if he feels contact he has the right and should go down’, this from the line of Shearer, but imo it’s a contact spirt and there’s a difference between contact and a foul, and Ings wasn’t fouled imo.
		
Click to expand...

I never thought it in real time, slo mo replays can often make a tackle/collision look worse than it actually is.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			i nearly joked that at least one of his sides had won this weekend before not tempting fate lol
		
Click to expand...

Burnley never beat Arsenal, they get too many dodgy decisions late in the game


----------



## fundy (Feb 1, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Burnley never beat Arsenal, they get too many dodgy decisions late in the game
		
Click to expand...


getting the excuses in early 

we'll take anything we can get at the moment tbh


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			According to the conspiracy theorists 😂

*It pays to do a bit of research.....since 1st December we’ve only conceded 3 league goals😉*

Click to expand...

Coincided with the return of form of England best CB - he is just pure quality


----------



## JamesR (Feb 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			thats no way to talk about half this thread 

Click to expand...

Oh, I hope no one thinks I was talking about them🤭


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 1, 2020)

One video of the Ings incident.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1223641675312062464
PS. Thought Firmino’s was a stonewall


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 1, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Dad’s from Trawden, near Burnley.
I’m Derby born & bred!

I couldn’t be one of those glory supporters, who live nowhere near a place but claim to have been a fan for life - so many Utd, Citeh and Liverpool *fans with absolutely no links to the place*

Click to expand...

Fair play James, never understand it.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 1, 2020)

Ings goes in in


pauldj42 said:



			One video of the Ings incident.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1223641675312062464
PS. Thought Firmino’s was a stonewall
		
Click to expand...

Ings goes in instalments. If the second swipe connects its a stonewall through.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 1, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Ings goes in in


Ings goes in instalments. If the second swipe connects its a stonewall through.
		
Click to expand...

I can’t see why Ings would go down in that situation, from that angle it looks like he’s got a chance of getting a shot off.
And, as much as I don’t rate him, I’ve never thought he’s a player that goes down easily or throws himself about.


----------



## Fish (Feb 1, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Ings goes in in


Ings goes in instalments. If the second swipe connects its a stonewall through.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t thinks there’s contact in the second ‘swipe’, Ings puts his toe down just before his outstretched leg but is already stumbling forwards and tries to step or hop over it, you’d never get a foul for that in open play imo so should be no different just because it’s in the box.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			I don’t thinks there’s contact in the second ‘swipe’, Ings puts his toe down just before his outstretched leg but is already stumbling forwards and tries to step or hop over it, you’d never get a foul for that in open play imo so should be no different just because it’s in the box.
		
Click to expand...

Tbf Robin. Incidents inside/outside the box are never treated equally. 

Form that video I'd go with the ref. VAR if it was used would have cleared it up.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I can’t see why Ings would go down in that situation, from that angle it looks like he’s got a chance of getting a shot off.
And, as much as I don’t rate him, I’ve never thought he’s a player that goes down easily or throws himself about.
		
Click to expand...

I'll be honest. I never rated him either. But atm I'm enjoying him proving me Wrong.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 1, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I'll be honest. I never rated him either. But atm I'm enjoying him proving me Wrong.
		
Click to expand...

He was decent for Burnley


----------



## Bazzatron (Feb 1, 2020)

Disappointed to get a point at Utd, they were there for the taking. Wish we'd had more of a go.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 1, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Disappointed to get a point at Utd, they were there for the taking. Wish we'd had more of a go.
		
Click to expand...

Shows how Utd have fallen, it must be donkeys years since a Wolves fan can have felt like that!


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 1, 2020)

JamesR said:



			He was decent for Burnley
		
Click to expand...

For 18 months. For me, Liverpool signed hi simply as he was free and English. Granted there was a fee settled.

he looked a solid pl squad player. But even after last season, injuries aside. I’d not have expected how he’s performed.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 1, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Dad’s from Trawden, near Burnley.
I’m Derby born & bred!

I couldn’t be one of those glory supporters, who live nowhere near a place but claim to have been a fan for life - so many Utd, Citeh and Liverpool fans with absolutely no links to the place[/QU
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Bazzatron (Feb 1, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Shows how Utd have fallen, it must be donkeys years since a Wolves fan can have felt like that!
		
Click to expand...

We ain't won there since 1980...granted we've been in a few different divisions to them...


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 1, 2020)

Ha. This thread. Of course it’s foul on Ings. Contact doesn’t need to be made. He “goes down in instalments” because he’s trying to stay on his feet but fails to after the second poor attempt from Fabinho. 

Why would it hurt to say that in a game you won comfortably the opposition should’ve had a penalty?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 1, 2020)

JamesR said:



			I don’t want to suggest that you might be whingeing unnecessarily, but wouldn’t VAR have checked both incidents...and before you accuse me of being a victim, rose tinted or any other pathetic names, I’m a Burnley/Derby fan
		
Click to expand...

Have you got a half and half of them two?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			I’ve watched the Ings incident twice now, and I’d never have given a pen for it, don’t care what pundits might say, it’s subjective and strikers are biased to other strikers and come out with shite like, ‘if he feels contact he has the right and should go down’, this from the likes of Shearer, but imo it’s a contact sport and there’s a difference between contact and a foul, and Ings wasn’t fouled imo.
		
Click to expand...

I'm scared to like this....

That Soyuncu one on Abraham today was an awkward one, still not sure which way I would have gone if I was the VAR official. It could literally have been one you would give one day and not the other.


----------



## fundy (Feb 1, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Disappointed to get a point at Utd, they were there for the taking. Wish we'd had more of a go.
		
Click to expand...


2 similar approaches that produced a pretty dull game, neither side was prepared to commit enough forward.

Thought United got away with how they dealt with Traore, similar Wolves with Martial (1st half at least)

Wolves showed glimpses of quality and plenty to like about what Nuno is building there, think Podence will prove a decent signing too


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 2, 2020)

VAR shocker at Anfield today.

I wasnt sure on the Ings one as had seen it earlier today, but MOTD showed an extra camera angle used from behind the goal that showed it was a pen - not sure if VAR had this angle - surely they should be able to tap into all of the telly camera angles.......unless they think that seeing it from 14 angles instead of 4, shouldnt be needed for a "clear and obvious error" perspective. Makes you wonder.

Anyway the Firminho one was first anyway, so we would have gone 1-0 up potentially. 

BTW cracking first goal from Watford.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 2, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'm scared to like this....

That Soyuncu one on Abraham today was an awkward one, still not sure which way I would have gone if I was the VAR official. It could literally have been one you would give one day and not the other.
		
Click to expand...

Some shockers from var today.
A goalie can miss the ball and punch a striker on the nose = goal kick.???
Delph second yellow wasn’t even a foul imo.
Firmino on the goal line deffo pen.
think the Ings  one was the first touch ,Fabiano never touched him but still looked a pen for me.
Ref did well in Palace game to change the red card.
Liverpool looking good some nice finishing,so hope we keep winning.
Nice to see the midfield scoring.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 2, 2020)

Just seen the West Ham game. The second Brighton goal 😨. what the heck were West Ham doing at the back? 3rd goal looked handball as well. Hammers fans must have kicked a lot of dogs last night after the game.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 2, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			For 18 months. For me, Liverpool signed hi simply as he was free and English. Granted there was a fee settled.

he looked a solid pl squad player. But even after last season, injuries aside. I’d not have expected how he’s performed.
		
Click to expand...

Both were penalties yesterday after watching Motd 

As for Ings - he is a younger Vardy and always had the potential to do well in a team set up to use his pace and finishing skills. Klopp really liked him and wanted to keep him for that player to change things up but injuries just ruined his chances - it’s hard not to like him and you could tell after the game the way he was with the Liverpool players he was certainly a player they liked - hopefully he gets his chance with England because he is going to keep scoring goals and i for one am delighted , and also that Soton are doing well because I really rate the manager ( maybe it’s the manager that Liverpool take next 😉 )


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 2, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Just seen the West Ham game. The second Brighton goal 😨. what the heck were West Ham doing at the back? 3rd goal looked handball as well. Hammers fans must have kicked a lot of dogs last night after the game.
		
Click to expand...

It was one of them games you come away thinking wow how did we muck it up that bad

MOTD picked up the first goal for Brighton shouldn't have stood due to Murray holding onto the keeper (forcing him to punch it into the defender)

Second goal was so bad. Just hoof it out. Not even diop.. cresswell hoof it.. anyone hoof it 

3rd goal looked like handball . Ref gave hand ball. You can't say that it was clear error as it still looks handball ..


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 2, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			It was one of them games you come away thinking wow how did we muck it up that bad

MOTD picked up the first goal for Brighton shouldn't have stood due to Murray holding onto the keeper (forcing him to punch it into the defender)

Second goal was so bad. Just hoof it out. Not even diop.. cresswell hoof it.. anyone hoof it

3rd goal looked like handball . Ref gave hand ball. You can't say that it was clear error as it still looks handball ..
		
Click to expand...

Second goal was a mess.
But defenders these days are coached to try to retain possession of the ball.
Row z has gone out of fashion ,but is exactly what they should have done.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 2, 2020)

PJ, we imploded late on against Newcastle the other week so I feel your pain. Their goals were not unfair though so yours will be worse. 

Green shoots in terms of general play or too early yet?


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 2, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			PJ, we imploded late on against Newcastle the other week so I feel your pain. Their goals were not unfair though so yours will be worse. 

Green shoots in terms of general play or too early yet?
		
Click to expand...

After Liverpool could see a little positive because it was like best team in Europe ATM etc and we played ok. Only let in 2. Carved out chances

Signed 3 solid players in the window 

This was just what the heck is going on moment 

Played well in parts but the decisions from the manager

Antonio had to go off.. he was blowing 

But keeping noble on was awful decision. Terrible player who's day has been and gone long before Brexit was even a pipe dream

We signed a decent midfielder. Took him off and kept that waste of space off

Noble and Snodgrass are the same age.. one looks like he is full of running the other looks like he runs through treacle


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Ha. This thread. Of course it’s foul on Ings. Contact doesn’t need to be made. He “goes down in instalments” because he’s trying to stay on his feet but fails to after the second poor attempt from Fabinho.
*
Why would it hurt to say that in a game you won comfortably the opposition should’ve had a penalty?*

Click to expand...

If this is aimed at me, Because at the time of the post  I'd only seen it 1st hand and I didnt think it was a pen. 

After seeing the different angles it's a pen  though he went down a little bit too dramatic and I think that's why it wasnt overturned.


----------



## Fade and Die (Feb 2, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Just seen the West Ham game. The second Brighton goal 😨. what the heck were West Ham doing at the back? 3rd goal looked handball as well. Hammers fans must have kicked a lot of dogs last night after the game.
		
Click to expand...

An own goal
A total cock up 2nd
And a dubious VAR
We are our own worst enemies.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1223658622120534017


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 2, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			An own goal
A total cock up 2nd
And a dubious VAR
We are our own worst enemies.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1223658622120534017

Click to expand...

With regards to the Murray goal, logic says that the only way the ball can bounce off him at the angle it does is if it comes off his arm. Off his chest it has to go away from goal. To allow it made no sense.


----------



## Piece (Feb 2, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			With regards to the Murray goal, logic says that the only way the ball can bounce off him at the angle it does is if it comes off his arm. Off his chest it has to go away from goal. To allow it made no sense.
		
Click to expand...

Disagree. It comes off his side; it looks like it is arm as it fits the ’logic’. No arm involved for me at all.


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			2 similar approaches that produced a pretty dull game, neither side was prepared to commit enough forward.

Thought United got away with how they dealt with Traore, similar Wolves with Martial (1st half at least)

Wolves showed glimpses of quality and plenty to like about what Nuno is building there, think Podence will prove a decent signing too
		
Click to expand...

I think Shaw actually had a decent game but it looked obvious Traore wasn't anywhere near fully fit. That said he should have scored or played the right passes on a couple of occasions. As for Martial I think a statue would've marked him out of the game 

Nevez and Raul were brilliant today and it's a great point for Wolves.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 2, 2020)

Piece said:



			Disagree. It comes off his side; it looks like it is arm as it fits the ’logic’. No arm involved for me at all.
		
Click to expand...

You cannae beat the laws of physics,  a wise man once said 😁


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 2, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			The worst thing about today was that a skate scored the opener 😂😂😂

On a different subject. Ole et all have said how Greenwood is the next big thing. So why is he constantly benched?
		
Click to expand...

Ole is building for the future and starting kids.......wouldn't catch him signing a 30 year old journeyman to eat up Greenwoods minutes


----------



## Fade and Die (Feb 2, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			With regards to the Murray goal, logic says that the only way the ball can bounce off him at the angle it does is if it comes off his arm. Off his chest it has to go away from goal. To allow it made no sense.
		
Click to expand...

It was not that debatable handball that screwed us it was the laughable defending for their 2nd goal. Gave them the impetus we started to run out of gas at that point.
They had not played for a couple of weeks and it showed in last 20mins.

Odd substitutions by Moyes didn’t help, I can see Antonio needed hooking as he was knackered but Soucek and Snodgrass were the best players on the pitch! And leaving Noble on (playing in the number 10 position!!) when he has been complaining about playing two games a week and was clearly struggling is mystifying.


----------



## hairball_89 (Feb 2, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			It was not that debatable handball that screwed us it was the laughable defending for their 2nd goal...
		
Click to expand...

Also, I'd say the Murray on the Keeper incident directly before the Ogbonna OG was potentially more of an issue than the Murray goal. That gave Brighton an impetus at the start of the 2nd half they probably didn't deserve! Given the Van Dijk on De Gea incident a few weeks ago, I'm quite surprised nothing was made of Murray holding a keeper off in a way that meant the keeper couldn't physically get to the ball!


----------



## Fish (Feb 2, 2020)

Need City to win today to help maintain our gap, don't really care about Burnley Vs Arsenal, but I'll pish myself if Burnley win, my assistant Pro is a staunch gooner and I'll be straight on the phone and social media to take the pish 

Being billed as a 6 pointer for Burnley Vs Arsenal, oh how the mighty have fallen


----------



## Piece (Feb 2, 2020)

Fish said:



			Need City to win today to help maintain our gap, don't really care about Burnley Vs Arsenal, but I'll pish myself if Burnley win, my assistant Pro is a staunch gooner and I'll be straight on the phone and social media to take the pish 

Being billed as a 6 pointer for Burnley Vs Arsenal, oh how the mighty have fallen 

Click to expand...

Correct. Burnley were top six....😜


----------



## fundy (Feb 2, 2020)

Fish said:



			Need City to win today to help maintain our gap, don't really care about Burnley Vs Arsenal, but I'll pish myself if Burnley win, my assistant Pro is a staunch gooner and I'll be straight on the phone and social media to take the pish 

Being billed as a 6 pointer for Burnley Vs Arsenal, oh how the mighty have fallen 

Click to expand...

dont really care then go onto explain why you actually do, lol Fishy


----------



## fundy (Feb 2, 2020)

So painful watching xhaka and doozi in CM, not sure what Torreira has done to deserve being back on the banch again


----------



## fundy (Feb 2, 2020)

Everything is so slow, most of them seem to want an extra touch or two in possession, almost as if theyre scared to give it away (which they end up doing!)

Get Torreira and Ceballos on at ht plse


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			Everything is so slow, most of them seem to want an extra touch or two in possession, almost as if theyre scared to give it away (which they end up doing!)

Get Torreira and Ceballos on at ht plse
		
Click to expand...

Cellabos is a cracking footballer, looks very classy definitely needs minutes.


----------



## fundy (Feb 2, 2020)

Geez that was a hard watch, lucky to get a point thanks to Rodriguez miss!

Another point closer to safety lol


----------



## Piece (Feb 2, 2020)

Right, that’s the pre match warm up done. Time for some real footy...Spuds v Man Kitty 😉


----------



## fundy (Feb 2, 2020)

and Sterlings foul is different to Aubameyangs how?


----------



## fundy (Feb 2, 2020)

Seems no 2nd yellow for diving either

hows Sterling still on the park


----------



## Dan2501 (Feb 2, 2020)

What a passage of play that was. Fantastic drama. Love it. Sterling lucky to still be on the field.


----------



## davemc1 (Feb 2, 2020)

Just as well the leagues done or I’d be saying the games gone


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 2, 2020)

Bizarre penalty run up. He could only hit it in that corner with that run up. Not a tough guess for lloris. City have a real issue with penalties.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			Seems no 2nd yellow for diving either

hows Sterling still on the park
		
Click to expand...

Should have gone for the tackle alone


----------



## Fish (Feb 2, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Bizarre penalty run up. He could only hit it in that corner with that run up. Not a tough guess for lloris. City have a real issue with penalties.
		
Click to expand...

but the keeper was off his line, very poor from the linesman, he only has one job, to look down the line!


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 2, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Bizarre penalty run up. He could only hit it in that corner with that run up. Not a tough guess for lloris. City have a real issue with penalties.
		
Click to expand...

apparantly they are saying the best penalty taker in the  City team is Ederson. 😳

Stirling showing why he shouldnt be starting.

2 mins for VAR to say a penalty 🤔 No Chance of anyone scoring in that time is there.

Sky saying Lloris off the line for penalty save. Nowt to talk about at half time.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 2, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			apparantly they are saying the best penalty taker in the  City team is Ederson. 😳

Stirling showing why he shouldnt be starting.

2 mins for VAR to say a penalty 🤔 No Chance of anyone scoring in that time is there.

Sky saying Lloris off the line for penalty save. Nowt to talk about at half time.
		
Click to expand...

Apparently he has never missed a penalty before.Cant believe your turning on Sterling ,was your go to man for the first half of the season
Short memories eh


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 2, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			apparantly they are saying the best penalty taker in the  City team is Ederson. 😳

Stirling showing why he shouldnt be starting.

2 mins for VAR to say a penalty 🤔 No Chance of anyone scoring in that time is there.

Sky saying Lloris off the line for penalty save. Nowt to talk about at half time.
		
Click to expand...

But nothing about the Sterling tackle and then the dive 🤔


----------



## Fish (Feb 2, 2020)

Only just watched some highlights, so;

2 minutes of play before the pen gets called, what would have happened had Spurs scored, would it be disallowed and revert solely back to pen?  

No foul on Sterling so surely he’s dived thus 2nd yellow?

Keeper off his line for the pen, but VAR doesn’t get involved in that, although it’s a obvious error by the officials?

This game we love so much is finished !!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 2, 2020)

Fish said:



			Only just watched some highlights, so;

2 minutes of play before the pen gets called, what would have happened had Spurs scored, would it be disallowed and revert solely back to pen? 

No foul on Sterling so surely he’s dived thus 2nd yellow?

Keeper off his line for the pen, but VAR doesn’t get involved in that, although it’s a obvious error by the officials?

This game we love so much is finished !!
		
Click to expand...

yes the Spurs goal would have been disallowed and they revert back to the penalty 

The linesman is supposed to be looking directly at the keeper to ensure he stays in his line be they only look at “encroachment” in VAR - it’s happened a few times this season where GK comes of their line


----------



## Fish (Feb 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			yes the Spurs goal would have been disallowed and they revert back to the penalty

The linesman is supposed to be looking directly at the keeper to ensure he stays in his line be they only look at “encroachment” in VAR - it’s happened a few times this season where GK comes of their line
		
Click to expand...

and so by the same token, if there was a yellow or red card in that 2 minutes, would that get chalked off also as they rewind back to the pen?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 2, 2020)

Do we know the Sterling non penalty was because he wasn't touched or because he had kicked the ball away and was never going to get it?

How have city not scored? So wasteful.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Should have gone for the tackle alone
		
Click to expand...

Disagree.

He got a little of the ball, was in control in the main, sometimes you just dont know not only where your foot may land, but also the oppos.

Unless you want a non-tackling sport, of course?


----------



## Dan2501 (Feb 2, 2020)

City now down to 10 with Zinchenko gone. Brilliant from Winks, knocked it past him and invited the foul, Zinchenko stupid enough to take him out. Chance for Spurs now.


----------



## Fish (Feb 2, 2020)

That replay shows a shoulder to shoulder to me, might not be running side by side, but what does that matter if it’s shoulder to shoulder, not a ‘tactical foul’ for me in this instance.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 2, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do we know the Sterling non penalty was because he wasn't touched or because he had kicked the ball away and was never going to get it?

How have city not scored? So wasteful.
		
Click to expand...

Oh come on, your not coming up with that old chestnut.

If the keeper fouls him, it doesnt make any difference if the ball was going out of play/over the bar/ into row Z, its still a foul and a pen.

TBF I think it was very borderline. He was going down before, but if the keeper still takes him its still a pen. Lloris didnt get any of the ball, thats a given.

I think he may of got a bit of Sterling, but not conclusive, so why it wasnt overturned. However, if he had of given a pen, doubt it would have been overturned the other way either.

Thats deffo a 2nd bookable though.


----------



## Dan2501 (Feb 2, 2020)

Huge goal for Spurs. New man Bergwijn with the strike, superbly taken. The lad is a serious talent. Not had a great game but that is a brilliant finish.


----------



## Fish (Feb 2, 2020)

City are going to rue all those missed chances now.


----------



## Piece (Feb 2, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Disagree.

He got a little of the ball, was in control in the main, sometimes you just dont know not only where your foot may land, but also the oppos.

Unless you want a non-tackling sport, of course?
		
Click to expand...

This. It looked worse than it was. I thought he got the ball first and his foot had nowhere else to go, as they say.


----------



## Piece (Feb 2, 2020)

Wow. That’s a bit of skill and a half.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 2, 2020)

Fish said:



			That replay shows a shoulder to shoulder to me, might not be running side by side, but what does that matter if it’s shoulder to shoulder, not a ‘tactical foul’ for me in this instance.
		
Click to expand...

He's looking at the man all the time and his angle of run is always to take the man down, shoulder to shoulder or not. Tactical, and chickens coming home to roost.


----------



## Fish (Feb 2, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			He's looking at the man all the time and his angle of run is always to take the man down, shoulder to shoulder or not. Tactical, and chickens coming home to roost.
		
Click to expand...

yeah I understood the angle of the run, just thought as long as it was still a solid shoulder to shoulder that’s deemed to be a fair challenge.

happy to be corrected.

lots of yellows now being banded about, few more to go down the tunnel yet me thinks....


----------



## TheDiablo (Feb 2, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			He's looking at the man all the time and his angle of run is always to take the man down, shoulder to shoulder or not. Tactical, and chickens coming home to roost.
		
Click to expand...

This. 

Not once did he even try and look at where the ball was. Completely cynical, and so irrelevant that it was led with shoulder.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 2, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Apparently he has never missed a penalty before.Cant believe your turning on Sterling ,was your go to man for the first half of the season
Short memories eh
		
Click to expand...

Obviously you have not read my last dozen posts about him. He is out of form. And seeing as he has not scored or assisted in the last 7 games. Gonna be tough playing spurs with 9 men. Oops it’s 2-0. Never mind as long as Stirling gets a run out eh.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 2, 2020)

Looking forward to going to Sterling castle in Scotland in September. 

What?


----------



## Fish (Feb 2, 2020)

Spurs obviously have found their level, they can beat 10 men but struggle against 11 😜


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 2, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Obviously you have not read my last dozen posts about him. He is out of form. And seeing as he has not scored or assisted in the last 7 games. Gonna be tough playing spurs with 9 men. Oops it’s 2-0. Never mind as long as Stirling gets a run out eh.
		
Click to expand...

His work rate is phenomenal and his movement creates space.
You might get your wish though he’s injured


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Looking forward to going to Sterling castle in Scotland in September.

What?

Click to expand...

Bump for Tashy 🤭


----------



## TheDiablo (Feb 2, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Looking forward to going to Sterling castle in Scotland in September.

What?

Click to expand...

I'm going abroad in a couple of months, hoping the current political climate doesn't effect the price of Stirling too much before then.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 2, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Disagree.

He got a little of the ball, was in control in the main, sometimes you just dont know not only where your foot may land, but also the oppos.

Unless you want a non-tackling sport, of course?
		
Click to expand...

I’ll have to look at it again then because it looked like he went over the ball and onto the ankle

If it was given do you think it would have been overruled or overturned on appeal ?

Great work Spurs - make chelsea start time sweat , more dropped points for City and pushing UTD further down the table 😁


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 2, 2020)

TheDiablo said:



			I'm going abroad in a couple of months, hoping the current political climate doesn't effect the price of Stirling too much before then.
		
Click to expand...

Stirling performance by Spurs, there.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			His work rate is phenomenal and his movement creates space.
You might get your wish though he’s injured
		
Click to expand...

Shame his end product is piss poor, he'd be world class otherwise.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 2, 2020)

So it’s now just 6 wins and if we keep winning then the title could potentially be won at Everton 🤭😀😀😀


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 2, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Shame his end product is piss poor, he'd be world class otherwise.
		
Click to expand...

It was but it’s gone missing.
I agree though if he could 25-30 a season yes definitely world class.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2020)

City only have themselves to blame for that result today. 

Maybe the pressure of having the countries hope of stopping Liverpool winning the title has got too them 🤭🤭

Not only have they let themselves down this season they've let every football fan around the country down.....


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So it’s now just 6 wins and if we keep winning then the title could potentially be won at Everton 🤭😀😀😀
		
Click to expand...

Stop it Phil, one game at a  time as the boss says😉

_It's actually Palace at home providing City win their next 6 games and  we win all our next 6 games._


----------



## fundy (Feb 2, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			City only have themselves to blame for that result today. 

Maybe the pressure of having the countries hope of stopping Liverpool winning the title has got too them 🤭🤭

Not only have they let themselves down this season they've let every football fan around the country down.....
		
Click to expand...


yet theyre still favs for the Champions League  go figure


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 2, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			City only have themselves to blame for that result today.

Maybe the pressure of having the countries hope of stopping Liverpool winning the title has got too them 🤭🤭

Not only have they let themselves down this season they've let every football fan around the country down.....
		
Click to expand...

That performance today Stu has been a regular feature all season. But your post highlights what I was saying about Sterling and City. City got what they deserved which was nowt. Being honest is being honest. Sterling has been poor. There seems on this forum that it is either rose tinted glasses or you are having a go at someone. There’s no middle ground. How Sterling is getting a game before Bernardo is a head scratcher. When Spurs scored I mentioned to missis T that City could lose the last two games 1-0 having only faced 1 shot against both Utd and Spurs.

Bottom line is Liverpool have been streets ahead of everyone in the league this year.

gonna be an interesting summer at City this year


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			yet theyre still favs for the Champions League  go figure 

Click to expand...

Bookies in arse covering shocker 😂😂


----------



## davemc1 (Feb 2, 2020)

Oh an this ederson v Alison. Is it still a debate, or did Brazil have it right all along? 😃


----------



## fundy (Feb 2, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Bookies in arse covering shocker 😂😂
		
Click to expand...


couldnt bet them with stolen money lol

unless the "unbearables" are going to the double it looks as open as i can remember it, 7 sides with a genuine chance still


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 2, 2020)

City for the architects of their own destruction but Spurs seemed far grittier today. A really good game for the neutral and good to see Mike Dean decided to stay in the background


----------



## fundy (Feb 2, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			City for the architects of their own destruction but Spurs seemed far grittier today. A really good game for the neutral and good to see Mike Dean decided to stay in the background
		
Click to expand...

7 yellows and a red, incorrectly didnt send Sterling off not once but twice and you think he was in the background?


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			That performance today Stu has been a regular feature all season. But your post highlights what I was saying about Sterling and City. City got what they deserved which was nowt. Being honest is being honest. Sterling has been poor. *There seems on this forum that it is either rose tinted glasses or you are having a go at someone. There’s no middle ground*. How Sterling is getting a game before Bernardo is a head scratcher. When Spurs scored I mentioned to missis T that City could lose the last two games 1-0 having only faced 1 shot against both Utd and Spurs.

Bottom line is Liverpool have been streets ahead of everyone in the league this year.

gonna be an interesting summer at City this year
		
Click to expand...

Klopp's certainly getting his money's worth out of VAR and the Refs 😂

On a serious note that performance didnt deserve a 2-0 defeat, performance was very good at times just not taking  the chances that your creating Is costing.

i like Sterling and rate him highly but his end product hasn’t improved on the same level as the rest of his game. Sometimes it’s mental fatigue though some will look at his wage and dismiss that. 

Fair and honest discussions in this thread went a few seasons ago, your not allowed to have opinion on other teams because It’s seen by some, for example, that if you're a Liverpool fan saying something about Yernited you’re obsessed etc 

The improvement mentally has been incredible this season, its amazing to see after what happened last season.

As for your summer I won’t be interested  that’s for sure 😉😂😂


----------



## fundy (Feb 2, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Klopp's certainly getting his money's worth out of VAR and the Refs 😂

On a serious note that performance didnt deserve a 2-0 defeat, performance was very good at times just not taking  the chances that your creating Is costing.

i like Sterling and rate him highly but his end product hasn’t improved on the same level as the rest of his game. Sometimes it’s mental fatigue though some will look at his wage and dismiss that. 

Fair and honest discussions in this thread went a few seasons ago, your not allowed to have opinion on other teams because It’s seen by some, for example, that if you're a Liverpool fan saying something about Yernited you’re obsessed etc 

The improvement mentally has been incredible this season, its amazing to see after what happened last season.

As for your summer I won’t be interested  that’s for sure 😉😂😂
		
Click to expand...


can you tell Phil the bit about having an opinion on other teams Stu


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			couldnt bet them with stolen money lol

unless the "unbearables" are going to the double it looks as open as i can remember it, 7 sides with a genuine chance still
		
Click to expand...

I agree.

A PL/CL double was 500/1 at the start of the season, Into 14’s now 🤭


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			can you tell Phil the bit about having an opinion on other teams Stu 

Click to expand...

It’s like talking to a brick wall mate. 

I’m with Pokerjoke, he needs to stick to hockey 👍🏻


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			can you tell Phil the bit about having an opinion on other teams Stu 

Click to expand...

I’m not sure who I’m obsessed about- over the period it’s been Arsenal , Chelsea , Spurs , City , Utd , Everton - not sure who we are allowed to talk about ?

Might stick to hockey 🏑


----------



## fundy (Feb 2, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I agree.

A PL/CL double was 500/1 at the start of the season, Into 14’s now 🤭
		
Click to expand...


both those prices are massive surely! wheres the 14s?????


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Oh an this ederson v Alison. Is it still a debate, or did Brazil have it right all along? 😃
		
Click to expand...

He is Immense. To think of the cats we’ve had, he’s head and shoulders above all of them.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			both those prices are massive surely! wheres the 14s?????
		
Click to expand...

It was with Skybet a few days ago.... might even be weeks ago but I’ll find it.


----------



## fundy (Feb 2, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It was with Skybet a few days ago.... might even be weeks ago but I’ll find it.
		
Click to expand...


feels like 2 mths ago price lol


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I agree.

A PL/CL double was 500/1 at the start of the season, Into 14’s now 🤭
		
Click to expand...




fundy said:



			both those prices are massive surely! wheres the 14s?????
		
Click to expand...

sorry for getting you excited, I got the above one wrong. 3weeks ago

to win remaining 17 games was 500/1

remain unbeaten and win CL was 14’s now 12’s


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 2, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I agree.

A PL/CL double was 500/1 at the start of the season, Into 14’s now 🤭
		
Click to expand...

Not getting anywhere near 14s now fella. 
That’s basically saying 14/1 to win CL,won’t have been that price for quite some time.


----------



## fundy (Feb 2, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			sorry for getting you excited, I got the above one wrong. 3weeks ago

to win remaining 17 games was 500/1

remain unbeaten and win CL was 14’s now 12’s
		
Click to expand...


yeah that makes more sense


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			yeah that makes more sense 

Click to expand...

Time Flies when you’re top of the table,unbeaten, european and world champions 😀😀


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 2, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			City for the architects of their own destruction but Spurs seemed far grittier today. A really good game for the neutral and good to see Mike Dean decided to stay in the background
		
Click to expand...

Once again the same as last week just talking a load of baloney.
Did you even watch the game


----------



## Jensen (Feb 2, 2020)

Fish said:



			Spurs obviously have found their level, they can beat 10 men but struggle against 11 😜
		
Click to expand...

THAts what happens with Mourinho in charge.....care to take him back.  Third time lucky


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Once again the same as last week just talking a load of baloney.
Did you even watch the game 

Click to expand...

obviously he never if he genuinely thought Dean stayed in the background.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 2, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			obviously he never if he genuinely thought Dean stayed in the background.
		
Click to expand...

Dean was doing what mike Dean does - being awful and trying to be the main headline - he is another ref who thinks he can get away with being rubbish by having a “quirky” personality and he was certainly not in the background during this game


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 2, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			obviously he never if he genuinely thought Dean stayed in the background.
		
Click to expand...

Sarcasm clearly doesn't travel


----------



## Fish (Feb 2, 2020)

Jensen said:



			THAts what happens with Mourinho in charge.....care to take him back.  Third time lucky
		
Click to expand...

no thanks 😏


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sarcasm clearly doesn't travel
		
Click to expand...

It’s how it’s delivered, obviously your not the best at it😃


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 2, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1224049680981614594
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 someone from the forum hasn’t phoned in have they 🤭


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 2, 2020)

Fam Tv have just put a bid in for stat man gaz.....hang on....hang on......hang on.....


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1224049680981614594
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 someone from the forum hasn’t phoned in have they 🤭
		
Click to expand...

I think it’s hilarious that they actually believe the stuff they say and write.

I enjoy reading Bluemoon, they’re deluded. Sometimes you just have to accept that another team is better than yours. It all becomes easier once you accept it.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Fam Tv have just put a bid in for stat man gaz.....hang on....hang on......hang on.....
		
Click to expand...

.

Just checked and he’s back on, all systems go....


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 2, 2020)

sawtooth said:



			Easier yes but still wonâ€™t be easy.

People will obviously learn lessons on an individual and team basis.  I think thatâ€™s pretty obvious. Itâ€™s probably a main reason why teams seldom win back to back league titles.

*Just saying that Liverpool wonâ€™t reach 97 points or anywhere near it this year. Closer to 77 points I reckon.*

Click to expand...


Hey Sawtooth, when you said closer to 77pts did you mean by the end of February or the end of season?.😁😁😉


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 2, 2020)

The crisis at Man Utd has taken away from the mess at Arsenal. So painful to watch them these days. Half baked, lazy, no backbone and a team full of fakers. No big signings, just budget loans for third rate players. 

Nothing against Arteta but he's coming across as a faker too. A luxury player who only played for second tier sides (Arsenal were in that bracket when Wenger signed him) and cruised through his career. He's been Pep's number two but has no CV and is a massive gamble. His record since taking over is 8 points from 7 league games and they've mostly been easy ones too. No new manager bounce - just same old overplaying and fancy talk. Arsenal needed a Mourinho, Conte or Simeone to shake the whole club. Instead they've appointed someone even worse than the person they failed to back and sacked.


----------



## Fish (Feb 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Hey Sawtooth, when you said closer to 77pts did you mean by the end of February or the end of season?.😁😁😉
		
Click to expand...

I bet that took some searching back for 😜


----------



## ColchesterFC (Feb 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I think it’s hilarious that they actually believe the stuff they say and write.

I enjoy reading Bluemoon, they’re deluded. *Sometimes you just have to accept that another team is better than yours*. It all becomes easier once you accept it.
		
Click to expand...

Some of us don't find that terribly difficult to do. For the last 35 years I've been accepting that there are approximately 75 to 80 clubs better than us and in some years the number was as high as 91.


----------



## Fish (Feb 3, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Some of us don't find that terribly difficult to do. For the last 35 years I've been accepting that there are approximately 75 to 80 clubs better than us and in some years the number was as high as 91.
		
Click to expand...

I didn’t know you supported Spurs 😜😂😂


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I think it’s hilarious that they actually believe the stuff they say and write.

I enjoy reading Bluemoon, they’re deluded. *Sometimes you just have to accept that another team is better than yours.* It all becomes easier once you accept it.
		
Click to expand...

Let’s be fair though Stu, every team has this diverse fan base, plenty of times over the last 30 years City, Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal etc got no credit from some fans of other teams when they were at the top.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 3, 2020)

Fish said:



			I bet that took some searching back for 😜
		
Click to expand...

Nope, plenty more where that came from and it's all to hand Fishy😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Let’s be fair though Stu, every team has this diverse fan base, plenty of times over the last 30 years City, Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal etc got no credit from some fans of other teams when they were at the top.
		
Click to expand...

I agree though at times in that period you mention the vast majority of fans have acknowledged the better side. 

Maybe the rise of social media allows the loonies to voice the their not too well thought opinions... 😉


----------



## ColchesterFC (Feb 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I agree though at times in that period you mention the vast majority of fans have acknowledged the better side.

Maybe the rise of *the GM Forum* allows the loonies to voice the their not too well thought opinions... 😉
		
Click to expand...

Fixed that for you.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I agree though at times in that period you mention the vast majority of fans have acknowledged the better side.

Maybe the rise of social media allows the loonies to voice the their not too well thought opinions... 😉
		
Click to expand...

Social media also tends to highlight the extremes and the sensible bit in the middle is lost.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 3, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Fixed that for you. 

Click to expand...

You're not wrong mate, you've only got to look at the Brexit thread 😁


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Let’s be fair though Stu, every team has this diverse fan base, plenty of times over the last 30 years City, Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal etc got no credit from some fans of other teams when they were at the top.
		
Click to expand...

Is the correct answer. One thing you learn when you have been rammel for decades is a bit of humility. If your team is crap, you can paint it polish it or varnish it. It’s still crap. For City fans that have had years/ decades of rubbish. There’s no doubting where the finances for our success have come from. We have done that conversation a dozen times with a dozen to come. Does it make me bitter hearing the comments. Let’s just say I could do with a bigger head so I could smile even more. What does please me is that the top table of the big four over the last decade has been smashed. In Europe it has been smashed. And the bottom line is. It’s not liked. Why? 
There has been more than one comment about how the Prem league is weaker this year. Which means exactly what. Does that take anything away from Liverpool’s achievement. Hope not. Me I hope to god that either Wolves or Sheff Utd can sneak fourth place. Failing that. Leicester, Wolves and Sheff Utd taking European spots. Oh how that would really bog a few off. But that’s football, peaks and troughs.
Like you say Paul, other teams fans give no credit to other teams. Look at City and the Emptyhad. Can never fill your ground but which team had/ has the largest attendance for a league game. Anyone care to google it. Not Bad for a club with no history.
Me point is I will talk football all day, and I will say it as I see it without rose tinted glasses on, but sometimes it is a one way street.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Is the correct answer. One thing you learn when you have been rammel for decades is a bit of humility. If your team is crap, you can paint it polish it or varnish it. It’s still crap. For City fans that have had years/ decades of rubbish. There’s no doubting where the finances for our success have come from. We have done that conversation a dozen times with a dozen to come. Does it make me bitter hearing the comments. Let’s just say I could do with a bigger head so I could smile even more. What does please me is that the top table of the big four over the last decade has been smashed. In Europe it has been smashed. And the bottom line is. It’s not liked. Why?
There has been more than one comment about how the Prem league is weaker this year. Which means exactly what. Does that take anything away from Liverpool’s achievement. Hope not. Me I hope to god that either Wolves or Sheff Utd can sneak fourth place. Failing that. Leicester, Wolves and Sheff Utd taking European spots. Oh how that would really bog a few off. But that’s football, peaks and troughs.
Like you say Paul, other teams fans give no credit to other teams. Look at City and the Emptyhad. Can never fill your ground but which team had/ has the largest attendance for a league game. Anyone care to google it. Not Bad for a club with no history.
Me point is I will talk football all day, and I will say it as I see it without rose tinted glasses on, but sometimes it is a one way street.
		
Click to expand...

I’ll add, fill your boots talking about City (Insert any Club), I don’t care, every fan/supporter can tell you all the positives about their club, just don’t expect opposition fans to agree.

Every PL Club has history, some more successful than others, unfortunately their is an arrogance that goes with every Club as well.

99% of the time it’s banter on here, unfortunately over the last 2-3 yrs the fun has been sucked out of this thread by a couple of irregular posters and we’ve lost the sensible contribution from a couple of decent guys.

Virtually every post is now looked at with suspicion and doubt rather than face value.

This season has seen LPool dominate the PL like no team ever has, below them I firmly believe it’s been poor.
I only look how laughable we’ve been this season and yet today sit in 9th 3 points off 6th.

Hopefully next season we’ll have 4 or 5 of the so called big 6 taking points off each other and the PL won’t be won in March.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 3, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Is the correct answer. One thing you learn when you have been rammel for decades is a bit of humility. If your team is crap, you can paint it polish it or varnish it. It’s still crap. For City fans that have had years/ decades of rubbish. There’s no doubting where the finances for our success have come from. We have done that conversation a dozen times with a dozen to come. Does it make me bitter hearing the comments. Let’s just say I could do with a bigger head so I could smile even more. What does please me is that the top table of the big four over the last decade has been smashed. In Europe it has been smashed. And the bottom line is. It’s not liked. Why?
There has been more than one comment about how the Prem league is weaker this year. Which means exactly what. Does that take anything away from Liverpool’s achievement. Hope not. Me I hope to god that either Wolves or Sheff Utd can sneak fourth place. Failing that. Leicester, Wolves and Sheff Utd taking European spots. Oh how that would really bog a few off. But that’s football, peaks and troughs.
Like you say Paul, other teams fans give no credit to other teams. Look at City and the Emptyhad. Can never fill your ground but which team had/ has the largest attendance for a league game. Anyone care to google it. Not Bad for a club with no history.
Me point is I will talk football all day, and I will say it as I see it without rose tinted glasses on, but sometimes it is a one way street.
		
Click to expand...

You're incredibly biased in favour of Man City a lot of the time and the occasional throw away comment to the contrary doesn’t negate that.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 3, 2020)

I still can't believe we won that yesterday. City had 14 efforts before we'd had one, but our first two shots ended up in the net. Obviously Zinchenko's daft decision to wipe out Winks partly cost them the game - the other part was their strangely woeful finishing. How did Aguero stab that one wide in the first half from about two yards out? Mind boggling. Lovely strike from the new lad Bergwijn!

I was surprised to read this statistic just now:

_"A run of one win in five before Sunday had severely stunted any early Mourinho optimism. But now the only clubs to have earned more Premier League points than Tottenham (23) since his appointment are Liverpool (39) and City themselves (26)."_

Probably just as much a statement of how inconsistent everyone else has been, but still. I wouldn't have guessed that.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 3, 2020)

A stat that surprised me was City havent won more than 3 consecutive league  games this season and since 1st December they'd conceded 11 league  goals.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			A stat that surprised me was City havent won more than 3 consecutive league  games this season and since 1st December they'd conceded 11 league  goals.
		
Click to expand...

That’s because they are weaker this year,just like the rest of the league 
It’s seems now a lot of people are agreeing with me now and I’ve been saying it for months.
The way it’s looking Liverpool could put a few P/L titles together.
It’s a wake up call for Pep and his players.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 3, 2020)

Coul


pokerjoke said:



			That’s because they are weaker this year,just like the rest of the league 
It’s seems now a lot of people are agreeing with me now and I’ve been saying it for months.
The way it’s looking Liverpool could put a few P/L titles together.
It’s a wake up call for Pep and his players.
		
Click to expand...

Could VAR be a factor ?
Big decisions going against the so called big clubs .
Lots of goals chalked off 
Plus a lot of teams can’t defend to save their lives. Including City.
A good defender is worth his weight in gold now ,years ago that was exclusively for strikers.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 3, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			That’s because they are weaker this year,just like the rest of the league 
It’s seems now a lot of people are agreeing with me now and I’ve been saying it for months.
The way it’s looking Liverpool could put a few P/L titles together.
It’s a wake up call for Pep and his players.
		
Click to expand...

There is gossip That Pep is having a big clear out this summer. Up to 7 are on there way. Don’t think that is enough. But a stat I read the other day. Laporte has played in 49 league game and won 42 of them. If he wins his next game for City he will be the most successful centre half in the prem after 50 games. That’s how important he is to City. He is City’s version of VVD. But after him. You could get rid of the lot of them. Walker, Otamendi, Mendy, just make to many individual mistakes. Re Liverpool and winning a few prem titles. I don’t think anyone will disagree with that. The player they have to keep is VVD. Again silly season but are Juve sniffing around him. Watch this space.

Re City. Or winning 3 on the spin. It really does not surprise Me, They have been rammel and no one saw that coming From last season. But in the same sense KDB has been brilliant again. For me week after week him and Sergio have been the stand out performers.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 3, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			There is gossip That Pep is having a big clear out this summer. Up to 7 are on there way. Don’t think that is enough. But a stat I read the other day. Laporte has played in 49 league game and won 42 of them. If he wins his next game for City he will be the most successful centre half in the prem after 50 games. That’s how important he is to City. He is City’s version of VVD. But after him. You could get rid of the lot of them. Walker, Otamendi, Mendy, just make to many individual mistakes. Re Liverpool and winning a few prem titles. I don’t think anyone will disagree with that. The player they have to keep is VVD. Again silly season but are Juve sniffing around him. Watch this space.

Re City. Or winning 3 on the spin. It really does not surprise Me, They have been rammel and no one saw that coming From last season. But in the same sense KDB has been brilliant again. For me week after week him and Sergio have been the stand out performers.
		
Click to expand...

Don’t think Liverpool would take 200 million for VVD.
That’s an impressive Laporte stat


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Is the correct answer. One thing you learn when you have been rammel for decades is a bit of humility. If your team is crap, you can paint it polish it or varnish it. It’s still crap. For City fans that have had years/ decades of rubbish. There’s no doubting where the finances for our success have come from. We have done that conversation a dozen times with a dozen to come. Does it make me bitter hearing the comments. Let’s just say I could do with a bigger head so I could smile even more. *What does please me is that the top table of the big four over the last decade has been smashed. In Europe it has been smashed. *And the bottom line is. It’s not liked. Why?
There has been more than one comment about how the Prem league is weaker this year. Which means exactly what. Does that take anything away from Liverpool’s achievement. Hope not. Me I hope to god that either Wolves or Sheff Utd can sneak fourth place. Failing that. Leicester, Wolves and Sheff Utd taking European spots. Oh how that would really bog a few off. But that’s football, peaks and troughs.
Like you say Paul, other teams fans give no credit to other teams. Look at City and the Emptyhad. Can never fill your ground but which team had/ has the largest attendance for a league game. Anyone care to google it. Not Bad for a club with no history.
Me point is I will talk football all day, and I will say it as I see it without rose tinted glasses on, but sometimes it is a one way street.
		
Click to expand...

What’s this “top 4” smashed thjng ? 

And in the CL ? Has it really been smashed ? Who out of the top clubs in Europe have won the CL in the past decade ?  No one - it’s the same teams - Barce , Madrid , Liverpool etc


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 3, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Coul

Could VAR be a factor ?
Big decisions going against the so called big clubs .
Lots of goals chalked off
Plus a lot of teams can’t defend to save their lives. Including City.
A good defender is worth his weight in gold now ,years ago that was exclusively for strikers.
		
Click to expand...

No Liverpool streets ahead.
If VAR has chalked them off there’s a reason.
Top 6 apart from Liverpool just very poor


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 3, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Don’t think Liverpool would take 200 million for VVD.
That’s an impressive Laporte stat
		
Click to expand...

Sometimes it is not about the club, it is whether the player wants to go. I am not suggesting he does at this point but you can never tell, he has no afinity to Liverpool after all. Perhaps the lure of Turin will be greater than sunny Liverpool


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 3, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			That’s because they are weaker this year,just like the rest of the league 
It’s seems now a lot of people are agreeing with me now and I’ve been saying it for months.
The way it’s looking Liverpool could put a few P/L titles together.
It’s a wake up call for Pep and his players.
		
Click to expand...

Its a narrative that some people are formulating for various reasons, and we know what one of the reasons is.

How can a league be weaker or less competitive if there are lets say 6-8 clubs still in with a shout of getting 4th or 5th place? The title race is, because a potentially once in a lifetime run of results from one team.

Surely, outwith the title race, its more competitive?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 3, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Is the correct answer. One thing you learn when you have been rammel for decades is a bit of humility. If your team is crap, you can paint it polish it or varnish it. It’s still crap. For City fans that have had years/ decades of rubbish. There’s no doubting where the finances for our success have come from. We have done that conversation a dozen times with a dozen to come. Does it make me bitter hearing the comments. Let’s just say I could do with a bigger head so I could smile even more. What does please me is that the top table of the big four over the last decade has been smashed. In Europe it has been smashed. And the bottom line is. It’s not liked. Why?
There has been more than one comment about how the Prem league is weaker this year. Which means exactly what. Does that take anything away from Liverpool’s achievement. Hope not. Me I hope to god that either Wolves or Sheff Utd can sneak fourth place. Failing that. Leicester, Wolves and Sheff Utd taking European spots. Oh how that would really bog a few off. But that’s football, peaks and troughs.
Like you say Paul, other teams fans give no credit to other teams. Look at City and the Emptyhad. Can never fill your ground but which team had/ has the largest attendance for a league game. Anyone care to google it. Not Bad for a club with no history.
Me point is I will talk football all day, and I will say it as I see it without rose tinted glasses on, but sometimes it is a one way street.
		
Click to expand...

Correct, highest for an FA cup game for a club side, possibly swelled by many Stoke fans that are only down the road, but still, yes, a record.Fair play.

But.......

It was still 4k below capacity. 

And........

The record for a league game at Maine Road, was actually achieved by your bitter rivals Man United. Ouch.

Hello, hello.......


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Its a narrative that some people are formulating for various reasons, and we know what one of the reasons is.

How can a league be weaker or less competitive if there are lets say 6-8 clubs still in with a shout of getting 4th or 5th place? The title race is, because a potentially once in a lifetime run of results from one team.

Surely, outwith the title race, its more competitive?[/QUOTE
I really don’t see how it’s difficult to understand,the top teams are weaker that’s a fact.
I don’t believe I’ve mentioned the word competitive once.
They are two different things.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Correct, highest for an FA cup game for a club side, possibly swelled by many Stoke fans that are only down the road, but still, yes, a record.Fair play.

But.......

It was still 4k below capacity. 

And........

The record for a league game at Maine Road, was actually achieved by your bitter rivals Man United. Ouch.

Hello, hello.......
		
Click to expand...

BFT 😉


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Its a narrative that some people are formulating for various reasons, and we know what one of the reasons is.

How can a league be weaker or less competitive if there are lets say 6-8 clubs still in with a shout of getting 4th or 5th place? The title race is, because a potentially once in a lifetime run of results from one team.

Surely, outwith the title race, its more competitive?
		
Click to expand...

Because if the “normal” big 6 all perform you normally get 1 or 2 of the lesser teams looked at as having an exceptional season fighting for 7th with a big gap to the rest, and this year we have one outstanding team and 6-8 mediocre.

So if you prefer mediocre teams taking points off each other then yes they are more competitive with each other, but going on the standards set by the, “normal”, big 6 over the recent years the PL as a whole is not as strong this season as previous imo.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What’s this “top 4” smashed thjng ?

And in the CL ? Has it really been smashed ? Who out of the top clubs in Europe have won the CL in the past decade ?  No one - it’s the same teams - Barce , Madrid , Liverpool etc
		
Click to expand...

The Top 4 was always promoted by Sky as Utd, Chelsea, LPool and Arsenal, we now have the Big 6 thanks to Spurs and City.

Sky rubbish, but it is what’s happened.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 3, 2020)

Linked arguments though. 

Whether VAR is making the big teams not get "home side / big decisions" as much may be one factor, the less well off clubs being in a better state to repel larger clubs in them taking their players, all in all the league is more competitive, provided 4 finalists 9 months ago to the premier European trophies, and all current sides getting to the knockout stages of Europe, so not sure how the league is weaker.

Granted, due to our form you think it looks that way, but we had shown a normal form for top 1-2-3 in a league we would probably be on around 50 points at this stage, but due to us winning 95% of games it skews the rest of the league. What are most challengers on points wise around this time of year, traditionally - around what City and Leicester are on?


----------



## MegaSteve (Feb 3, 2020)

For me, Pep is playing a blinder... The owners like the thrill of the chase... As soon as they've done some winning they lose interest and look elsewhere for their 'kicks'...


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Because if the “normal” big 6 all perform you normally get 1 or 2 of the lesser teams looked at as having an exceptional season fighting for 7th with a big gap to the rest, and this year we have one outstanding team and 6-8 mediocre.

So if you prefer mediocre teams taking points off each other then yes they are more competitive with each other, but going on the standards set by the, “normal”, big 6 over the recent years the PL as a whole is not as strong this season as previous imo.
		
Click to expand...

See my reply to Tony, about normal challengers points total for around this time of year.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The Top 4 was always promoted by Sky as Utd, Chelsea, LPool and Arsenal, we now have the Big 6 thanks to Spurs and City.

Sky rubbish, but it is what’s happened.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, and us 3 are also of an age when the "big 5" was always touted, as well - Liverpool, Arsenal, Everton, United and Spurs - maybe in that order, as well.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Linked arguments though.

Whether VAR is making the big teams not get "home side / big decisions" as much may be one factor, the less well off clubs being in a better state to repel larger clubs in them taking their players, all in all the league is more competitive, provided 4 finalists 9 months ago to the premier European trophies, and all current sides getting to the knockout stages of Europe, so not sure how the league is weaker.

Granted, due to our form you think it looks that way, but we had shown a normal form for top 1-2-3 in a league we would probably be on around 50 points at this stage, but due to us winning 95% of games it skews the rest of the league. What are most challengers on points wise around this time of year, traditionally - around what City and Leicester are on?
		
Click to expand...

Don’t think we will ever agree on this


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 3, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Coul

Could VAR be a factor ?
Big decisions going against the so called big clubs .
Lots of goals chalked off
Plus a lot of teams can’t defend to save their lives. Including City.
A good defender is worth his weight in gold now ,years ago that was exclusively for strikers.
		
Click to expand...

I wouldn't put it down to VAR. Every club has their own reasons for under-performance. With City they left their squad grossly under-strengthed with no replacement for Kompany despite having no trust in Stones or Otamendi. No decent left back brought in either. With Arsenal and Man Utd it's just poor management. For Chelsea obviously they were going through a period of transition with the transfer ban and youngsters being used - and they coped reasonably well for a while. For Spurs I think it was staleness of having the same core squad for too long, and the new signings weren't able to make a big impact early on in the season.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 3, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Don’t think we will ever agree on this
		
Click to expand...

maybe not, but you havent given one stat, or good insight, just your gut feeling - maybe back the argument up with something?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			See my reply to Tony, about normal challengers points total for around this time of year.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t in anyway think this reflects on you lot and what you’re achieving/achieved, even if the other 5 were on top form you’d still be miles ahead, but Leics would be talked about possibly reaching the EL and Sheff Utd would be talked about at being safe with 40pts with games to spare, not as a team possibly in the mix for a EL spot.

City if they win all their remaining fixtures can only get 90pts, so by their standards they’ve gone backwards as have the other 4.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 3, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I wouldn't put it down to VAR. Every club has their own reasons for under-performance. With City they left their squad grossly under-strengthed with no replacement for Kompany despite having no trust in Stones or Otamendi. No decent left back brought in either. With Arsenal and Man Utd it's just poor management. For Chelsea obviously they were going through a period of transition with the transfer ban and youngsters being used - and they coped reasonably well for a well. For Spurs I think it was staleness of having the same core squad for too long, and the new signings weren't able to make a big impact early on in the season.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I see your point but I think VAR has had a part to play by disallowing goals it’s changed some results .
But only a factor not the whole reason.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 3, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I see your point but I think VAR has had a part to play by disallowing goals it’s changed some results .
But only a factor not the whole reason.
		
Click to expand...

It may have been a slight leveller if you take the view that big clubs used to get the benefit on more decisions. But in that case Liverpool have been immune somehow?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Sometimes it is not about the club, it is whether the player wants to go. I am not suggesting he does at this point but you can never tell, he has no afinity to Liverpool after all. Perhaps the lure of Turin will be greater than sunny Liverpool 

Click to expand...

Can almost sense the hope 😉. Affinity to a club can grow when a player goes to the club - would you say Tim Cahill has an affinity to Everton ? I would say so and no doubt many others have the same - I have no doubt that VVD is growing an affinity to the club and it helps when the club is doing well - 5 years ago I would say that regardless of any affinity players would go but now - where is the next step up for a player ? For the first time in a long time currently I can’t see our best players leaving and in fact can so others wanting to come


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			maybe not, but you havent given one stat, or good insight, just your gut feeling - maybe back the argument up with something?
		
Click to expand...

No because it’s so glaringly obvious
Not a googler so can’t be bothered to look it up.
Perhaps you can get google Phil to do a comparison.
Sorry must of missed your stats


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 3, 2020)

I think there’s a confusion between competition and ability.
imo the league isn’t s competitive at the top due to the top 2-6 being equally worse. That doesn’t detract from how good Liverpool are. 

@Liverbirdie you asked how the teams compare to previous seasons re the also rans. Since Leicester won the league, the 3 remaining teams that finished in the top 4 have averaged approx 80 points, approx 85% of the league winners tally.
This season, if form continues, and it could be argued that city and Leicester are gonna gave worse finishes than the start of the season. The top 3 are on course to average 70 points at less than 70% of Liverpool’s title. 

Of course stats can be used to show anything, but I don’t think anyone can really say City are playing as well as previous seasons. Utd and Arsenal just look awful. the quality of the football has imo dropped massivEly. Now none of this makes Liverpool’s football or title win any worse, they’d still have beaten those teams if the were 15% better, but the league whilst more competitive in the fact that points are so close. Isn’t made up of 19 other really good teams.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can almost sense the hope 😉. Affinity to a club can grow when a player goes to the club - would you say Tim Cahill has an affinity to Everton ? I would say so and no doubt many others have the same - I have no doubt that VVD is growing an affinity to the club and it helps when the club is doing well - 5 years ago I would say that regardless of any affinity players would go but now - where is the next step up for a player ? For the first time in a long time currently I can’t see our best players leaving and in fact can so others wanting to come
		
Click to expand...

Tbf Pete. 

Players have left everyone for Madrid, no matter how big their current club. Maybe the success in Europe will help keep him, but having seen his ambition (lack of loyalty) first hand. I’d not be surprised if he hoped to ply his trade in Spain at some point.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 3, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			It may have been a slight leveller if you take the view that big clubs used to get the benefit on more decisions. But in that case Liverpool have been immune somehow?
		
Click to expand...

No we havnt we were fourth in the VAR league.
I think it hasn’t affected us as we have won a lot by more than one goal ,we have had quite a few chalked off
But a game that would have been decided by one goal becomes a draw.
But it was about the rest of the league being weaker, but they are all taking points off each other.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 3, 2020)

My lad was saying something along the lines of “ the way things are going, City will be doing a guard of Honour to Liverpool as Prem league champs when they play at City”.


----------



## Slime (Feb 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			You're incredibly biased in favour of Man City a lot of the time and the occasional throw away comment to the contrary doesn’t negate that.
		
Click to expand...

Of course he's biased, it's his team.
We're all biased towards the team we support, surely.
But some, obviously, more so than most and I wouldn't put Tashy in that bracket.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 3, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			My lad was saying something along the lines of “ the way things are going, City will be doing a guard of Honour to Liverpool as Prem league champs when they play at City”.
		
Click to expand...

That would be nice.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 3, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I think there’s a confusion between competition and ability.
imo the league isn’t s competitive at the top due to the top 2-6 being equally worse. That doesn’t detract from how good Liverpool are.

@Liverbirdie you asked how the teams compare to previous seasons re the also rans. Since Leicester won the league, the 3 remaining teams that finished in the top 4 have averaged approx 80 points, approx 85% of the league winners tally.
This season, if form continues, and it could be argued that city and Leicester are gonna gave worse finishes than the start of the season. The top 3 are on course to average 70 points at less than 70% of Liverpool’s title.

Of course stats can be used to show anything, but I don’t think anyone can really say City are playing as well as previous seasons. Utd and Arsenal just look awful. the quality of the football has imo dropped massivEly. Now none of this makes Liverpool’s football or title win any worse, they’d still have beaten those teams if the were 15% better, but the league whilst more competitive in the fact that points are so close. Isn’t made up of 19 other really good teams.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, but thats if you compare points compared to the probable champions. As I've said, our run has been unbelievable, compared to normal.

I'm talking a normal points total for 2nd and 3rd place for this time of year as a comparison, not comparing it as a percentage compared to current 1st place.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can almost sense the hope 😉. Affinity to a club can grow when a player goes to the club - would you say Tim Cahill has an affinity to Everton ? I would say so and no doubt many others have the same - I have no doubt that VVD is growing an affinity to the club and it helps when the club is doing well - 5 years ago I would say that regardless of any affinity players would go but now - where is the next step up for a player ? For the first time in a long time currently I can’t see our best players leaving and in fact can so others wanting to come
		
Click to expand...

Whether he stays or not genuinely does not stress me. I can't affect your club, your players, so whether he or others stay or go is simply a talking point. It is a general comment rather than targeted. VVD in recent years has been to Celtic, Southampton and now Liverpool. Each one a step up the ladder. He may decide to stop at Liverpool for the next 10 years or after another two he may fancy a nice life in Italy or Spain. Is winning a league and challenging for the CL each year in Italy or Spain any different? Pick the right team, he can right now, and this is virtually guaranteed.

Certain players do come over and develop a bond with a club. If you take our two teams then Molby is a good example for you, Cahill for us. They are rare examples though and in this modern era those players are even rarer, Kompany is a good example most recently. Players growing up in a country may grow up loving a particular club but as a player growing up in The Netherlands VVD has no bond to Liverpool. He will stay for as long as it suits him and then he will go, simple as that. Best not to get too attached to players now, it is a different era.

The good news for you is that he would certainly not jump ship to another English team, that could have happened previously. Yourselves and City are the two clear top dogs right now and there is no way either team would sanction the sale of a top player to either team. A move to another team would be a step down and why would he do that? If he, Mane, Salah etc do decide to leave it will be abroad, not to a domestic rival.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 3, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbf Pete.

Players have left everyone for Madrid, no matter how big their current club. Maybe the success in Europe will help keep him, but having seen his ambition (lack of loyalty) first hand. I’d not be surprised if he hoped to ply his trade in Spain at some point.
		
Click to expand...

I wish everyone would stop me getting mixed up with the hockey jockey.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 3, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			My lad was saying something along the lines of “ the way things are going, City will be doing a guard of Honour to Liverpool as Prem league champs when they play at City”.
		
Click to expand...

I really don't get the guard of honour thing. You get the trophy at the end of the year, that is enough. I would be disgusted if Everton did that for Liverpool, there is no need for it.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, but thats if you compare points compared to the probable champions. As I've said, our run has been unbelievable, compared to normal.

I'm talking a normal points total for 2nd and 3rd place for this time of year as a comparison, not comparing it as a percentage compared to current 1st place.
		
Click to expand...

I thought that was in there too fella. Average of the challengers (2-4) usually approx 80 at end of season. This year I'll be surprised if its 70.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I wish everyone would stop me getting mixed up with the hockey jockey. 

Click to expand...

Oh my!

I humbly apologise, but its your fault really. You did go asking for proof 👍🏻


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 3, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I thought that was in there too fella. Average of the challengers (2-4) usually approx 80 at end of season. This year I'll be surprised if its 70.
		
Click to expand...

Your not getting me.

What I'm saying is, is it normal for 2nd and 3rd place in the league to be in or around what City and Leicester are currently on around now. ie 51 and 49 points respectively after 25 games, or is that low in comparison to normal?


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Your not getting me.

What I'm saying is, is it normal for 2nd and 3rd place in the league to be in or around what City and Leicester are currently on around now. ie 51 and 49 points respectively after 25 games, or is that low in comparison to normal?
		
Click to expand...

Gotcha,

2nd/3rd/7th

51/49/35 this year
62/57/38
53/50/35
52/50/41
48/48/37

To me it shows that realistically last season was the different year in regards to gap between top couple and then the also rans (below Europa).  That being said, without paying attention to the leaders points it really doesn’t show anything. I can’t recall the challengers playing such poor footy in a while. Surely, the closer the spread the more equal the comp.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 3, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Gotcha,

2nd/3rd/7th

51/49/35 this year
62/57/38
53/50/35
52/50/41
48/48/37

To me it shows that realistically last season was the different year in regards to gap between top couple and then the also rans (below Europa).  That being said, without paying attention to the leaders points it really doesn’t show anything. I can’t recall the challengers playing such poor footy in a while. Surely, the closer the spread the more equal the comp.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, so city and and Leicester (or 2nd and 3rd place) have a normal points total for 25 games. Its just that ours is a massive anomaly.

Nice one.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 3, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I really don't get the guard of honour thing. You get the trophy at the end of the year, that is enough. I would be disgusted if Everton did that for Liverpool, there is no need for it.
		
Click to expand...

It's a tradition and shows respect.

And I will do a petition to get one every week until end of season should we win it in march 😁😁 #unbearable


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It's a tradition and shows respect.

And I will do a petition to get one every week until end of season should we win it in march 😁😁 #unbearable
		
Click to expand...

When did it begin? It's a pretty recent gimmick isn't it? Claiming it as a tradition is stretching it.

#notonmywatch 😁


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			When did it begin? It's a pretty recent gimmick isn't it? Claiming it as a tradition is stretching it.

#notonmywatch 😁
		
Click to expand...

Believe Teams have been doing it randomly since the 70’s but became more regular over the past 20 years to now it happens each year

Imagine being “disgusted” because of players showing a little respect and praise towards each other


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Believe Teams have been doing it randomly since the 70’s but became more regular over the past 20 years to now it happens each year

Imagine being “disgusted” because of players showing a little respect and praise towards each other
		
Click to expand...

You are assuming that players have respect whilst they are stood in line 🤔. Big assumption. I'm fairly sure most fans feel the same.

Always funny when a follower of a team wants to take a moral high ground. Not sure that's a wise road to go down.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It's a tradition and shows respect.

And I will do a petition to get one every week until end of season should we win it in march 😁😁 #unbearable
		
Click to expand...

Don’t forget where you where you heard it first. Me I am all for it.

However if that’s is the occasion at City I know where there’s three tickets for sale #morethanunbearable. 😁😉👍


----------



## Wolf (Feb 3, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You are assuming that players have respect whilst they are stood in line 🤔. Big assumption. I'm fairly sure most fans feel the same.

Always funny when a follower of a team wants to take a moral high ground. Not sure that's a wise road to go down.
		
Click to expand...

I think the guard of honour thing is ridiculous, don't see it as a sign of respect nor needed at all.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You are assuming that players have respect whilst they are stood in line 🤔. Big assumption. I'm fairly sure most fans feel the same.

Always funny when a follower of a team wants to take a moral high ground. Not sure that's a wise road to go down.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure where the moral high ground is ? 

Whether I agree with it or not I certainly wouldn’t be “ disgusted” with it - it’s something that happens in many other sports , with rugby after every game, is football that far gone or is the hatred that bad players can’t just give a bit or respect to the best team in the league that year regardless of who it is ? 

Are footballers that bad now they don’t have any respect for their fellow players and unable to praise each other.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not sure where the moral high ground is ?

Whether I agree with it or not I certainly wouldn’t be “ disgusted” with it - it’s something that happens in many other sports , with rugby after every game, is football that far gone or is the hatred that bad players can’t just give a bit or respect to the best team in the league that year regardless of who it is ?

Are footballers that bad now they don’t have any respect for their fellow players and unable to praise each other.
		
Click to expand...

Then have a guard of honour next season once this season has finished.
The only guard of honour I can recall is by the players of the home club when the trophy is being presented at an away ground.

ie.  Utd at Goodison in 2003, City at Bournemouth last season.
Whoever you play at home when you get the trophy may give you a guard of honour, but that’s it!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, so city and and Leicester (or 2nd and 3rd place) have a normal points total for 25 games. Its just that ours is a massive anomaly.

Nice one.

Click to expand...

As you say, your season is a “massive anomaly” everyone else is below standard.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not sure where the moral high ground is ?

Whether I agree with it or not I certainly wouldn’t be “ disgusted” with it - it’s something that happens in many other sports , with rugby after every game, is football that far gone or is the hatred that bad players can’t just give a bit or respect to the best team in the league that year regardless of who it is ?

Are footballers that bad now they don’t have any respect for their fellow players and unable to praise each other.
		
Click to expand...

Give it a rest Phil once again your going way over the top.
Football has changed nobody shook hands before a game before but now they are made to wether they want to or not.
Do you think Evra wanted to shake Suarez hand.
Looks like you’ve never played rugby either.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not sure where the moral high ground is ?

Whether I agree with it or not I certainly wouldn’t be “ disgusted” with it - it’s something that happens in many other sports , with rugby after every game, is football that far gone or is the hatred that bad players can’t just give a bit or respect to the best team in the league that year regardless of who it is ?

Are footballers that bad now they don’t have any respect for their fellow players and unable to praise each other.
		
Click to expand...

I'm viewing this as a fan. I want my team to do this for liverpool as much as I want my centre half swapping shirts as a souvenir with Mane at half time, laughing in the tunnel before the game with the opposition and any other chummy display. Shake hands at the end of the game, don't give a false guard of honour pre match. They are so hollow.


----------



## Wolf (Feb 3, 2020)

Any guard of honour in any sport is garbage. Player's shouldn't be expected to give one or receive one and it certainly doesn't signify a lack of respect if they don't want to give one. A guard of honour should be reserved for its true purpose, military displays, visiting heads of state for big occasions, fallen service men or women. Not a bunch of over paid footballers to have their egos stroked for winning a trophy.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Then have a guard of honour next season once this season has finished.
The only guard of honour I can recall is by the players of the home club when the trophy is being presented at an away ground.

ie.  Utd at Goodison in 2003, City at Bournemouth last season.
Whoever you play at home when you get the trophy may give you a guard of honour, but that’s it!
		
Click to expand...

I’m not bothered by it either way but it’s been happening a long time now - as I said teams did it back in the 70’s 80’s on the odd occasions and prob over the last 20 years it happens every year where the game after a team wins the title they get a guard of honour - it’s not really a big deal hence why i questioned why someone would be “disgusted” by a team giving the title winners a bit of respect and appreciation , I’m sure at some point it’s happened at Liverpool but I guess it’s all part of the unbearable season for some - I’ll file it along with - weakest league , livarpool, etc etc


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 3, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			When did it begin? It's a pretty recent gimmick isn't it? Claiming it as a tradition is stretching it.

#notonmywatch 😁
		
Click to expand...

At a guess i'd say at least 20 years


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I’m not bothered by it either way but it’s been happening a long time now - as I said teams did it back in the 70’s 80’s on the odd occasions and prob over the last 20 years it happens every year where the game after a team wins the title they get a guard of honour - it’s not really a big deal hence why i questioned why someone would be “disgusted” by a team giving the title winners a bit of respect and appreciation , I’m sure at some point it’s happened at Liverpool but I guess it’s all part of the unbearable season for some - I’ll file it along with - weakest league , livarpool, etc etc
		
Click to expand...

Phil, it really sticks in the throat to give yous all the credit you deserve, not once have I took anything away from how yous have been this season, but let’s not forget how much stick you’ve handed out and the fun you’ve had at other teams expense.

Nobody has suggested you don’t deserve admiration and respect, I’m sure a team, some team, will give yous that honour, but let’s not go over the top with the poor us posts eh!


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 3, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Don’t forget where you where you heard it first. Me I am all for it.

However if that’s is the occasion at City I know where there’s three tickets for sale #morethanunbearable. 😁😉👍
		
Click to expand...

Davemac will have them off yer😉


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2020)

Bit of background to the guard of honour.

https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...rd-of-honour-is-it-compulsory-who-has-had-one


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 3, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I really don't get the guard of honour thing. You get the trophy at the end of the year, that is enough. I would be disgusted if Everton did that for Liverpool, there is no need for it.
		
Click to expand...




Stuart_C said:



			Davemac will have them off yer😉
		
Click to expand...

wiv had a natter 😉👍


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Bit of background to the guard of honour.

https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...rd-of-honour-is-it-compulsory-who-has-had-one

Click to expand...

Sky Sports' Gary Neville was rather blunt when explaining how difficult they are to take part in, when reflecting on the 2005 guard of honour back in 2013.

"Like your mrs leaving you and being asked to hang the new blokes clothes up in your old wardrobe!!," he wrote on Twitter. "That's one way to put it!"

"I couldn't care less, I promise you," John Terry said after his tribute. "All I care about is celebrating with my Chelsea fans. Me and them have a wonderful rapport and have done for 22 years.

"Nothing that people write or say can ever get in the way of that."

seems it means more to fans than players 😂


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Phil, it really sticks in the throat to give yous all the credit you deserve, not once have I took anything away from how yous have been this season, but let’s not forget how much stick you’ve handed out and the fun you’ve had at other teams expense.
		
Click to expand...

calm down there - I don’t believe I have once said “you have taken anything away” from the season - the post was not “aimed” at you or anything you have posted 👍




			Nobody has suggested you don’t deserve admiration and respect, I’m sure a team, some team, will give yous that honour, but let’s not go over the top with the poor us posts eh!
		
Click to expand...

Poor us posts ?! Christ there is one poster who desperate to find a way to played down the achievements- can’t stop finding a way to get acceptance that is the “weakest” league , and social media is flooded with “livarpool” and many a posts on here with the same suggestions - you think it’s poor us ?! Nah you only have to read back through the thread and there is plenty of posts from people just desperate to find an excuse for why we are doing well - it is very enjoyable 😉😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 3, 2020)

I'd like to see a Sky panel chat pre match of Roy Keane, Graeme Souness and Gary Neville talking about the validity of a guard of honour 🤣🤣. You could get a lifetime of memes from that. Not sure they would need to speak, the looks would be enough.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Then have a guard of honour next season once this season has finished.
The only guard of honour I can recall is by the players of the home club when the trophy is being presented at an away ground.

ie.  Utd at Goodison in 2003, City at Bournemouth last season.
Whoever you play at home when you get the trophy may give you a guard of honour, but that’s it!
		
Click to expand...

United, city and arsenal have all be given a guard of honour by a few teams including Liverpool v Chelsea.

it rarely happens as most leagues are won at the end of the season/last day.

Without going all “googlePhil” there’s plenty of evidence of it happening in previous seasons outthere😉


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, but thats if you compare points compared to the probable champions. As I've said, our run has been unbelievable, compared to normal.

I'm talking a normal points total for 2nd and 3rd place for this time of year as a comparison, not comparing it as a percentage compared to current 1st place.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.liverpool.com/liverpool...league-17678738.amp?__twitter_impression=true


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			calm down there - I don’t believe I have once said “you have taken anything away” from the season - the post was not “aimed” at you or anything you have posted



Poor us posts ?! Christ there is one post who desperate to find a way to played down the achievements- can’t stop finding a way to get acceptance that is the “weakest” league , and social media is flooded with “livarpool” and many a posts on here with the same suggestions - you think it’s poor us ?! Nah you only have to read back through the thread and there is plenty of posts from people just desperate to find an excuse for why we are doing well - it is very enjoyable 😉
		
Click to expand...

Then take a lesson from Stu_C on how to handle the comments, you say it’s very enjoyable, but that’s not what your posts show.

As for posts all over social media, ignore them or at least try not to let them get to you, let’s be honest yous will never the credit you’ll deserve from everyone.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			United, city and arsenal have all be given a guard of honour by a few teams including Liverpool v Chelsea.

it rarely happens as most leagues are won at the end of the season/last day.

Without going all “googlePhil” there’s plenty of evidence of it happening in previous seasons outthere😉
		
Click to expand...

See my Sky link.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1224413609310076928
this aged well 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Suppose he is right in one way - we aren’t near each other this season


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 3, 2020)

I love the faux outrage at the potential guard of honour😂😂😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			See my Sky link. 

Click to expand...

Yeah I only seen it after I’d posted my response.

Anyway, winning it at Goodison would be better than a guard of honour 😁😁


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah I only seen it after I’d posted my response.

Anyway, winning it at Goodison would be better than a guard of honour 😁😁
		
Click to expand...

Which is the DS answer to Lord T being disgusted.

Unfortunately I’ve got to watch some paint dry if that comes to pass.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			calm down there - I don’t believe I have once said “you have taken anything away” from the season - the post was not “aimed” at you or anything you have posted 👍



Poor us posts ?! Christ there is one poster who desperate to find a way to played down the achievements- can’t stop finding a way to get acceptance that is the “weakest” league , and social media is flooded with “livarpool” and many a posts on here with the same suggestions - you think it’s poor us ?! Nah you only have to read back through the thread and there is plenty of posts from people just desperate to find an excuse for why we are doing well - it is very enjoyable 😉😂😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Actually if you bothered to read all my posts which I’m sure you do I have actually praised Klopp and said how well Liverpool have done.
It’s the weakest league this year in my memory without googling and still haven’t been proved wrong.
30 years waiting and still unable to enjoy it.
There’s still people out there scared to say champions and your over 20 points clear,lmao
Even now scared you’ll blow it.
Stick to Hockey it’s what you know best


----------



## 3offTheTee (Feb 3, 2020)

Do not post on here much but read most of the time.

Think it would be interesting if you could NOT mention your own team for around 30 hours from 3 p.m on a Saturday to 9 p.m. on a Sunday.

Who would be the first to crack?


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 3, 2020)

3offTheTee said:



			Do not post on here much but read most of the time.

Think it would be interesting if you could NOT mention your own team for around 30 hours from 3 p.m on a Saturday to 9 p.m. on a Sunday.

Who would be the first to crack?
		
Click to expand...

where is the fun in that? 😂


----------



## Fish (Feb 3, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Actually if you bothered to read all my posts which I’m sure you do I have actually praised Klopp and said how well Liverpool have done.
*It’s the weakest league this year in my memory* without googling and still haven’t been proved wrong.
30 years waiting and still unable to enjoy it.
There’s still people out there scared to say champions and your over 20 points clear,lmao
Even now scared you’ll blow it.
Stick to Hockey it’s what you know best
		
Click to expand...

I disgree, Liverpool are simply a leap above everyone else.

If City were to win their remianing matches they'd finish on 90 points, if Leicester did they'd have 87 and Chelsea would have 79, all points that have won the league in the past, the average being mid to late 80 points was good enough to be champions for many years, only recently has a points tally of 90+ been acheived with more regularity.

So with a potential 90 point being 2nd and a high 80's 3rd, that's hardly weak is it?

It simply looks disportionate only due to Liverpool not dropping hardly any points over this period of the season to date, which is extraordinary, it does't make the other teams or league in general weak IMO.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 3, 2020)

Fish said:



			I disgree, Liverpool are simply a leap above everyone else.

If City were to win their remianing matches they'd finish on 90 points, if Leicester did they'd have 87 and Chelsea would have 79, all points that have won the league in the past, the average being mid to late 80 points was good enough to be champions for many years, only recently has a points tally of 90+ been acheived with more regularity.

So with a potential 90 point being 2nd and a high 80's 3rd, that's hardly weak is it?

It simply looks disportionate only due to Liverpool not dropping hardly any points over this period of the season to date, which is extraordinary, it does't make the other teams or league in general weak IMO.
		
Click to expand...

Well within your right to disagree
Obviously your going on potential however those 3 teams won’t go undefeated so we will have to wait and see.
My original point was this is a weaker p/l this year and teams are weaker than last year.
City Arsenal Utd Chelsea and Spurs are all weaker than last year and nobody’s proved me wrong.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2020)

Fish said:



			I disgree, Liverpool are simply a leap above everyone else.

If City were to win their remianing matches they'd finish on 90 points, if Leicester did they'd have 87 and Chelsea would have 79, all points that have won the league in the past, the average being mid to late 80 points was good enough to be champions for many years, only recently has a points tally of 90+ been acheived with more regularity.

So with a potential 90 point being 2nd and a high 80's 3rd, that's hardly weak is it?

It simply looks disportionate only due to Liverpool not dropping hardly any points over this period of the season to date, which is extraordinary, it does't make the other teams or league in general weak IMO.
		
Click to expand...

It just doesn’t work though, they can’t all go unbeaten as they play each other and 2 of them LPool,
So if City lose the 3 matches against Chelsea/Leics/LPool and win the rest they’d max out on 81pts, a full 17pts worse off from last season, if the same happens for Leics they could end up in the 70’s.

Add in some of those 3 also play Utd, Spurs & Arsenal, I doubt the positions 2-4 will have anywhere near those points suggested.

On a positive though, if Chelsea or City do win all their remaining fixtures, LPool don’t go undefeated, every cloud etc.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			As you say, your season is a “massive anomaly” everyone else is below standard.

Click to expand...

Not for normal 2nd and 3rd points totals though for this point in a season.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Not for normal 2nd and 3rd points totals though for this point in a season. 

Click to expand...

Another 17 teams in the League though.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 3, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Well within your right to disagree
Obviously your going on potential however those 3 teams won’t go undefeated so we will have to wait and see.
My original point was this is a weaker p/l this year and teams are weaker than last year.
City Arsenal Utd Chelsea and Spurs are all weaker than last year and nobody’s proved me wrong.
		
Click to expand...

Because you have changed your opinion from saying the league to just picking the recent challengers, a subtle change, but I spotted it. Yay, me!


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Another 17 teams in the League though. 

Click to expand...

Not according to Pokerjoke's league.


----------



## Fish (Feb 3, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Well within your right to disagree
Obviously your going on potential however those 3 teams won’t go undefeated so we will have to wait and see.
My original point was this is a weaker p/l this year and teams are weaker than last year.
City Arsenal Utd Chelsea and Spurs are all weaker than last year and nobody’s proved me wrong.
		
Click to expand...

Your now saying 'last year', the heighted quote I responded to clearly states 'in your memory', that's a huge variable in context, hence my response.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.liverpool.com/liverpool...league-17678738.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Click to expand...

My God, that fellas been reading my posts and then allaying facts to it. Shameful, still doesnt trump a gut feeling though, eh?

I hope with Brexit happening that they still can import "head-wobble" pills through the ports okay.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 3, 2020)

3offTheTee said:



			Do not post on here much but read most of the time.

Think it would be interesting if you could NOT mention your own team for around 30 hours from 3 p.m on a Saturday to 9 p.m. on a Sunday.

Who would be the first to crack?
		
Click to expand...

Us Liverpool fans have done it a few times, but even when we were rubbish you couldnt get the others to shut up about us.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			My God, that fellas been reading my posts and then allaying facts to it. Shameful, still doesnt trump a gut feeling though, eh?

I hope with Brexit happening that they still can import "head-wobble" pills through the ports okay.
		
Click to expand...

Written by a LPool fan who previously worked for Liverpool FC and The Anfield Wrap because of opposition fans “denigrating the scale  of what Liverpool are achieving” also manages to give the Net spend a mention, but only over the last 5 years! 

Most of those stats could be twisted to prove the opposite as well.

Seems to me LPool fans care more about the opinion of opposition fans than yous would like to admit.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Written by a LPool fan who previously worked for Liverpool FC and The Anfield Wrap because of opposition fans “denigrating the scale  of what Liverpool are achieving” also manages to give the Net spend a mention, but only over the last 5 years! 

Most of those stats could be twisted to prove the opposite as well.

Seems to me LPool fans care more about the opinion of opposition fans than yous would like to admit.

Click to expand...

Yep, but at least he has brought comparison stats into it, not just opinion. I have no doubt whatsoever that he has a biased view.

At least we wont be accused of "buying it".....actually, no, some divvy will say it, surely.

I think we will all defend our team from criticism or lack of appreciation, nothing different there. When city and chelsea won it me and many others have mentioned oil money, refs for Man U, red cards for Arsenal etc

Not much for Leicesters win though, maybe cos their rivals arent from the top 6, although Forest fans had a good go.

We just love calling out people who talk shoit, at least its seen Pinseeker crawl back under his rock for a few months. Every cloud?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, but at least he has brought comparison stats into it, not just opinion. I have no doubt whatsoever that he has a biased view.

At least we wont be accused of "buying it".....actually, no, some divvy will say it, surely.

I think we will all defend our team from criticism or lack of appreciation, nothing different there. When city and chelsea won it me and many others have mentioned oil money, refs for Man U, red cards for Arsenal etc

Not much for Leicesters win though, maybe cos their rivals arent from the top 6, although Forest fans had a good go.

We just love calling out people who talk shoit, at least its seen Pinseeker crawl back under his rock for a few months. Every cloud?
		
Click to expand...

Good post, although you have spent over a Billion since you last won it! @divvyalert


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Good post, although you have spent over a Billion since you last won it! @divvyalert

Click to expand...

Some have spent that in less than 10 years, possibly.

Anyway, enough about us. 

Its a pity that Chelsea are an anomaly, otherwise the fight for 4th place could be a 10 team fight - very competitive, and pesky Chelsea.


----------



## Fish (Feb 3, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Well within your right to disagree
Obviously your going on potential however those 3 teams won’t go undefeated so we will have to wait and see.
My original point was this is a weaker p/l this year and teams are weaker than last year.
City Arsenal Utd Chelsea and Spurs are all weaker than last year and nobody’s proved me wrong.
		
Click to expand...

Chelsea, Arsenal & Spurs only had 72,71 & 70 points last season, throw in Utd on 66 and that looks worse to me, the year before Chelsea was 70 and Arsenal 63, again potentially worse, so it looks like marginal improvements to me this season, its just that we, along with others, have not improved at the rate and degree that Liverpool & City have, in that 90+ points or very close to, becomes the baromoter to challenge.

In the last 5 years Utd other than 17/18 (81pts) have rarely got out of the 60's, Liverpool in the same period were initially low 60's, then mid 70's, now comfortably in the 90's, they have built and developed and the sliding scale of points in that period is testament to that, everyone else is up & down as they lose players or don't build around quality ones they have or address the weaknesses they have.

United are miles (years) away from being challengers, and as such, when their biggest and historic rivals are walking the league, its deemed to be the weakest 'in memory', whereas the reality is, they've moved the barometer, in back-to-back seasons, and I can see that being the case for a couple of seasons.

I personally think Pep will be gone at the end of this season, they'll get someone in and spend big and they'll be the force they were before, Chelsea will do similar but not on the same scale, but both will be challengers, again, but the divide between the top 2 or 3 will be come bigger within the top 4 to 6.

So, I think we'll match at least the same points we had last season, and with the constraints we had, I think is a fantastic acheivement, especially if we stay 4th.  Spurs won't be far off the same poits also, along with Utd, Arsenal definitely will be 10 points shy, but then 70 points last year was nothing to shout about. 

I think your looking to shift the achievents of Liverpool and how they've bulit themselves into the force they are today by declaring the PL is the weakest 'in your memory', when the facts are, that it isn't, everyone, almost, has stood still (not declined) whilst Liverpool has developed, I suppose thats tough for a Utd fan to accept!


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 3, 2020)

Fish said:



			Your now saying 'last year', the heighted quote I responded to clearly states 'in your memory', that's a huge variable in context, hence my response.
		
Click to expand...

Well you should of went back to the start where I said it first then and got the whole story.
Although since the start opinions have moved on and still no-one has proved me wrong.
This year the league is weaker and it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s the weakest ever.
Although as I keep saying Liverpool have been superb


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Some have spent that in less than 10 years, possibly.

Anyway, enough about us.

Its a pity that Chelsea are an anomaly, otherwise the fight for 4th place could be a 10 team fight - very competitive, and pesky Chelsea.

Click to expand...

I reckon next season (after your 1 season wonder) Chelsea will be the team to watch, I believe Lampard has great potential and if given a good chance, a couple of experienced signings to go with that squad and I can see them in amongst it for a good few years.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 3, 2020)

Fish said:



			Chelsea, Arsenal & Spurs only had 72,71 & 70 points last season, throw in Utd on 66 and that looks worse to me, the year before Chelsea was 70 and Arsenal 63, again potentially worse, so it looks like marginal improvements to me this season, its just that we, along with others, have not improved at the rate and degree that Liverpool & City have, in that 90+ points or very close to, becomes the baromoter to challenge.

In the last 5 years Utd other than 17/18 (81pts) have rarely got out of the 60's, Liverpool in the same period were initially low 60's, then mid 70's, now comfortably in the 90's, they have built and developed and the sliding scale of points in that period is testament to that, everyone else is up & down as they lose players or don't build around quality ones they have or address the weaknesses they have.

United are miles (years) away from being challengers, and as such, when their biggest and historic rivals are walking the league, its deemed to be the weakest 'in memory', whereas the reality is, they've moved the barometer, in back-to-back seasons, and I can see that being the case for a couple of seasons.

I personally think Pep will be gone at the end of this season, they'll get someone in and spend big and they'll be the force they were before, Chelsea will do similar but not on the same scale, but both will be challengers, again, but the divide between the top 2 or 3 will be come bigger within the top 4 to 6.

So, I think we'll match at least the same points we had last season, and with the constraints we had, I think is a fantastic acheivement, especially if we stay 4th.  Spurs won't be far off the same poits also, along with Utd, Arsenal definitely will be 10 points shy, but then 70 points last year was nothing to shout about.

I think your looking to shift the achievents of Liverpool and how they've bulit themselves into the force they are today by declaring the PL is the weakest 'in your memory', when the facts are, that it isn't, everyone, almost, has stood still (not declined) whilst Liverpool has developed, I suppose thats tough for a Utd fan to accept!
		
Click to expand...

Do you think City Utd Chelsea Spurs Arsenal are as good as last year playing wise regardless of points,I think so


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 3, 2020)

Fish said:



			Chelsea, Arsenal & Spurs only had 72,71 & 70 points last season, throw in Utd on 66 and that looks worse to me, the year before Chelsea was 70 and Arsenal 63, again potentially worse, so it looks like marginal improvements to me this season, its just that we, along with others, have not improved at the rate and degree that Liverpool & City have, in that 90+ points or very close to, becomes the baromoter to challenge.

In the last 5 years Utd other than 17/18 (81pts) have rarely got out of the 60's, Liverpool in the same period were initially low 60's, then mid 70's, now comfortably in the 90's, they have built and developed and the sliding scale of points in that period is testament to that, everyone else is up & down as they lose players or don't build around quality ones they have or address the weaknesses they have.

United are miles (years) away from being challengers, and as such, when their biggest and historic rivals are walking the league, its deemed to be the weakest 'in memory', whereas the reality is, they've moved the barometer, in back-to-back seasons, and I can see that being the case for a couple of seasons.

I personally think Pep will be gone at the end of this season, they'll get someone in and spend big and they'll be the force they were before, Chelsea will do similar but not on the same scale, but both will be challengers, again, but the divide between the top 2 or 3 will be come bigger within the top 4 to 6.

So, I think we'll match at least the same points we had last season, and with the constraints we had, I think is a fantastic acheivement, especially if we stay 4th.  Spurs won't be far off the same poits also, along with Utd, Arsenal definitely will be 10 points shy, but then 70 points last year was nothing to shout about.

I think your looking to shift the achievents of Liverpool and how they've bulit themselves into the force they are today by declaring the PL is the weakest 'in your memory', when the facts are, that it isn't, everyone, almost, has stood still (not declined) whilst Liverpool has developed, I suppose thats tough for a Utd fan to accept!
		
Click to expand...

Not at all I’ve praised Klopp 
I’ve said VVD was the game changer
I’ve said Liverpool play great football and would be unbeaten at home.
Yes as a Utd supporter hard to take but certainly not worth worrying about.


----------



## Fish (Feb 3, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Well you should of went back to the start where I said it first then and got the whole story.
Although since the start opinions have moved on and still no-one has proved me wrong.
This year the league is weaker and it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s the weakest ever.
Although as I keep saying Liverpool have been superb
		
Click to expand...

I don't need to read back, I quoted a post of you saying 'in memory', it's irrelevant what you've said prior, I've responded to that specific quote, and as per my other post, and with the potential points still on offer, other than Arsenal, most of the other clubs you mentioned, being Chelsea Spurs and even Utd, will only be a point here and there different to last year, so if you want to revert to a previous quote of it being worse than only last year, and not in memory, then fine, at least 3 clubs will achieve the same points, so the PL is not weaker, they're still achieving the same points they usually do, its just Liverpool have not thrown any away.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I reckon next season (after your 1 season wonder) Chelsea will be the team to watch, I believe Lampard has great potential and if given a good chance, a couple of experienced signings to go with that squad and I can see them in amongst it for a good few years.
		
Click to expand...

I wouldnt argue against it and I think next year could be a good 3 way fight for the title, as I doubt we will do as well next season, City will react by spending, as thats what they do, and I think Chelsea will be the 3rd strongest team, as their play is quite good, they just dont take enough of their chances, currently. Chelsea's squad also doesnt need a full overhaul, others do. 4th could be between the Utd, Leicester and Spurs, as I think Arsenal are the furthest away (players wise) from top 4. I could see Everton finishing above them next season.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Written by a LPool fan who previously worked for Liverpool FC and The Anfield Wrap because of opposition fans “denigrating the scale  of what Liverpool are achieving” also manages to give the Net spend a mention, but only over the last 5 years! 

Most of those stats could be twisted to prove the opposite as well.

*Seems to me LPool fans care more about the opinion of opposition fans than yous would like to admit*.

Click to expand...

Not here, I’m loving them all and embracing it. 

It’s brilliant every week we’re boiling other fans piss, if it’s not VAR it’s drugs, if it’s not Mane diving it’s Klopp’s teeth😃😃  

But most of all on the pitch we’ve been fantastic, mentally strong and Jordan Henderson is almost certain to be Players Player of The Year😂😂


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 3, 2020)

Fish said:



			I don't need to read back, I quoted a post of you saying 'in memory', it's irrelevant what you've said prior, I've responded to that specific quote, and as per my other post, and with the potential points still on offer, other than Arsenal, most of the other clubs you mentioned, being Chelsea Spurs and even Utd, will only be a point here and there different to last year, so if you want to revert to a previous quote of it being worse than only last year, and not in memory, then fine, at least 3 clubs will achieve the same points, so the PL is not weaker, they're still achieving the same points they usually do, its just Liverpool have not thrown any away.
		
Click to expand...

Once again welcome to your opinion but the same points doesn’t necessarily mean as strong.
As I pointed out the teams I mentioned are weaker and are others lower down.


----------



## Fish (Feb 3, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Do you think City Utd Chelsea Spurs Arsenal are as good as last year playing wise regardless of points,I think so
		
Click to expand...

You can't disregard points, you can play pretty attractive football, but not win, so you can't say they're all playing as good as last year as the points dictate the weaknesses, either in leaking goals or not scoring them.

We've punched well above our weight, we've played some great football, created unprecidented amount of chances, but not stuck them away, does that make us better than last season, no it doesn't, but if we had a Hazard (or Costa) amongst those kids, we'd be frightening! The same could be said of many of the other expected top 6.  Liverpool were without only a couple of players and they've now plugged that gap, other teams haven't addressed their weakeness as well, and as such have carried over their weaknesses into this season, theres been changes in managers across the board with Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal & Utd, so next season will be more of an acid test as that excuse won't be relevant, City don't have that excuse, they've had stability, and its shite spouting about injuries like Tashy does, every club experiences them but with the squad City have, they have no excuses for this season, which is why I think Pep is done for.....


----------



## TheDiablo (Feb 3, 2020)

The 'similar points total' discussion is an odd one. There's still the same amount of points available per game, it's not like you say 'well you won 1-0 but you were rubbish so we're taking the points away' - the average points total by position over the years will be largely the same year on year because of maths, regardless of the relative 'quality'. Take an extreme example where all clubs in the top half go on strike for a year and they promote a load from the Championship. The points distribution would likely look very similar to any individual Prem season, as it would with any random 20 team division in Europe. 

The opposition to Liverpool this year are definitely weaker then recent years. Would like to hear any genuine alternative pov to the below

City - worst team in the Pep years, awful at the back, very little leadership on the field. Lost to bottom of the league. Its very, very hard to win 3 titles in a row no matter how good you are/were.
Chelsea - most inexperienced squad since Abramovich. Understandably struggling with consistency but some awful performances, especially at home 
Spurs - worst side since before Poch - injuries, players wanting out, loss of form of key players
United - just gets worse and worse each year. A laughing stock 
Arsenal - see 'United' and repeat. 

The other side of the coin is that this has happened in a season where Liverpool have shown complete dominance, stunning unprecedented consistency at a very high level and would be worthy champions in any of the previous seasons. This side is a top 5 all time Prem team - anything regarding the strength of the league means diddly squat  because this Liverpool team would still have been the best and deserving champions

Opposition fans always look to go talk down achievements, its nothing new, and it's no worse than you've dished out over the last 20+ years. Jealousy and envy is human nature, its just been a while since you've experienced the other side. 

And anyway, if I was a Liverpool fan I wouldn't give a toss anyway. You've won, who cares about the rest or what they think? Celebrate it, you earned it and more than most know it isn't guaranteed to come again any time soon.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 3, 2020)

Could there also be a case that the “lesser” teams (Burnley, Sheffield Utd, Wolves etc) are a lot better than they used to be? 
Therefore getting more results against the supposed top 6 or 7 teams, and thus the best team wins by more points as they have kept on improving.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 3, 2020)

TheDiablo said:



			The 'similar points total' discussion is an odd one. There's still the same amount of points available per game, it's not like you say 'well you won 1-0 but you were rubbish so we're taking the points away' - the average points total by position over the years will be largely the same year on year because of maths, regardless of the relative 'quality'. Take an extreme example where all clubs in the top half go on strike for a year and they promote a load from the Championship. The points distribution would likely look very similar to any individual Prem season, as it would with any random 20 team division in Europe.

The opposition to Liverpool this year are definitely weaker then recent years. Would like to hear any genuine alternative pov to the below

City - worst team in the Pep years, awful at the back, very little leadership on the field. Lost to bottom of the league. Its very, very hard to win 3 titles in a row no matter how good you are/were.
Chelsea - most inexperienced squad since Abramovich. Understandably struggling with consistency but some awful performances, especially at home
Spurs - worst side since before Poch - injuries, players wanting out, loss of form of key players
United - just gets worse and worse each year. A laughing stock
Arsenal - see 'United' and repeat.

The other side of the coin is that this has happened in a season where Liverpool have shown complete dominance, stunning unprecedented consistency at a very high level and would be worthy champions in any of the previous seasons. This side is a top 5 all time Prem team - anything regarding the strength of the league means diddly squat  because this Liverpool team would still have been the best and deserving champions

Opposition fans always look to go talk down achievements, its nothing new, and it's no worse than you've dished out over the last 20+ years. Jealousy and envy is human nature, its just been a while since you've experienced the other side.

And anyway, if I was a Liverpool fan I wouldn't give a toss anyway. You've won, who cares about the rest or what they think? *Celebrate it, you earned it and more than most know it isn't guaranteed to come again any time soon*.
		
Click to expand...


spot on.

I’m enjoying every minute of it and I’ll celebrate it properly when it’s mathematically done.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 3, 2020)

The similar points one is to just show how the challengers compare, but using a factual thing instead of a subjective opinion.

You've also fallen into the trap of using the so-called big 6 - why not Leicester? They were Champions a few years ago, you know. Wolves were great last season and if not for the Europa league usual "tax" of -6 points would be right in the mix, or should we only talk about the six "big" clubs?

Its also human nature to not want achievements detracted from - many United, Chelsea, City and Arsenal fans have done it over the last 10 years when they have achieved - its now our turn. Same situation just different teams.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 3, 2020)

After 25 games this season:

City, 51, +36
Chelsea, 41, +9
Spurs, 37, +8
Man U, 35, +7
Arsenal, 31, -2

25 games last season:

City, 59, +46
Chelsea, 50, +22
Spurs, 57, +27
Man U, 48, +14
Arsenal, 47, +15

How is anyone seriously arguing that the quality of all of these hasn't dropped!??


----------



## Fish (Feb 3, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Could there also be a case that the “lesser” teams (Burnley, Sheffield Utd, Wolves etc) are a lot better than they used to be?
Therefore getting more results against the supposed top 6 or 7 teams, and thus the best team wins by more points as they have kept on improving.
		
Click to expand...

Definitely, theres usually a rogue team that starts off well, takes points off those expected to be in the top 6, other than 1, then they slip away but the dead is done, then that 1 team goes on a run and the divide looks bigger each week.

Then factor those on the fringe like Wolves, Sheff Utd, Burnley on their travels stealing points as well, but that 1 team grinds out results, and the divide is bigger again.

We've thrown 15 points away against bottom dwellers at home alone, because even with 70% possesion, record amounts of shots on target, we didn't score and allowed them a single chance which they took then we lost the game, but to be brutally honest, even with factoring those points back in whch we've thrown away over and above those 15 at home, we'd be in 2nd place and still at least 10 points off the pace, I don't think we'll see the PL won with less than 90 points for some time, so we've all got a lot of work to do....


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 4, 2020)

The same people who are taking much pleasure from the laughable form of Man Utd, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea (delete as applicable) are often the same people trying to claim that the challenge to win the league isn’t weaker than previous years. 

Can’t have it both ways.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 4, 2020)

.....and some people cant read and disseminate what is actually being said properly.

Does it make the point any different???????


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 4, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			.....and some people cant read and diseminate what is actually being said properly.
		
Click to expand...

Interesting use of the word diseminate(sic).


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 4, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			.....and some people cant read and diseminate what is actually being said properly.
		
Click to expand...

I know I feel for you though


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 4, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			The same people who are taking much pleasure from the laughable form of Man Utd, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea (delete as applicable) are often the same people trying to claim that the challenge to win the league isn’t weaker than previous years.

Can’t have it both ways.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunate they think they can


----------



## TheDiablo (Feb 4, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			The similar points one is to just show how the challengers compare, but using a factual thing instead of a subjective opinion.

You've also fallen into the trap of using the so-called big 6 - why not Leicester? They were Champions a few years ago, you know. Wolves were great last season and if not for the Europa league usual "tax" of -6 points would be right in the mix, or should we only talk about the six "big" clubs?

Its also human nature to not want achievements detracted from - many United, Chelsea, City and Arsenal fans have done it over the last 10 years when they have achieved - its now our turn. Same situation just different teams.
		
Click to expand...

But the point is it doesn't show that at all. It's a mathematical principle that the distribution of points will remain close to average year on year regardless of the relative 'strength' of the league. So it neither proves or disproves your point, it isn't something that should be used as a 'factual' thing. 

That others are in the top 6 only strengthens the argument imo. Leicester have had a good season but have been mid table for a couple of years and capitalised well on the failings of others. 

For Wolves, read Everton, Villa, Bolton, Leeds teams of the past (and many more). There's always a couple of decent mid table sides that have good years and push into the top 5/6, their season isn't anything new. 

I still don't really understand why you care what others think/say about your success, but it's fine that you do 👍🏻


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 4, 2020)

So it’s agreed then, poor season, best forgotten.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 4, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So it’s agreed then, poor season, best forgotten. 

Click to expand...

Yeah something like that..........


As if I'm letting you forget 😂😉


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 4, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah something like that..........


As if I'm letting you forget 😂😉
		
Click to expand...

A one off, just another Leicester.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 4, 2020)

TheDiablo said:



			But the point is it doesn't show that at all. It's a mathematical principle that the distribution of points will remain close to average year on year regardless of the relative 'strength' of the league. So it neither proves or disproves your point, it isn't something that should be used as a 'factual' thing.

That others are in the top 6 only strengthens the argument imo. Leicester have had a good season but have been mid table for a couple of years and capitalised well on the failings of others.

For Wolves, read Everton, Villa, Bolton, Leeds teams of the past (and many more). There's always a couple of decent mid table sides that have good years and push into the top 5/6, their season isn't anything new.

*I still don't really understand why you care what others think/say about your success, *but it's fine that you do 👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

I might be wrong but I dont think LB is, he's responding to Pokerjokes "nobody has proved me wrong" after hes claimed this season is the worst in his memory.

For me, I'm really  not bothered what others think. We've been the best side in the league this season to date and that's good enough for me.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 4, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			A one off, just another Leicester. 

Click to expand...

It might well be but what a one off it'll be 🤭🤭


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 4, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So it’s agreed then, poor season, best forgotten. 

Click to expand...

Fully agreed! It's been the worst season I can remember watching. And not just for the poor quality of the challengers and zero title race, but there's the absolute catastrophe of VAR to chuck in as well. Just dire.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2020)

Apparently some Liverpool fans started a petition to sign Stevie G so that he could lift the Prem trophy 🙈

It’s like they actually want to be mocked 😂😂😂

The gift 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 4, 2020)

It wasn't that long ago everyone was saying how the PL was the strongest in Europe. I assume now then that after taking all 4 finals places in Europe last season, and World Club champ in the PL it's not now?
So is the PL now like the Bundesliga was....one team in complete control?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			It wasn't that long ago everyone was saying how the PL was the strongest in Europe. I assume now then that after taking all 4 finals places in Europe last season, and World Club champ in the PL it's not now?
So is the PL now like the Bundesliga was....one team in complete control?
		
Click to expand...

It’s weird,it’s like most of the big Clubs in Europe aren’t quite what they were a few years ago.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 4, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			It’s weird,it’s like most of the big Clubs in Europe aren’t quite what they were a few years ago.
		
Click to expand...

So is that because they have dropped the ball or has everyone else got stronger with more even money splits?
Perhaps we preferred it with the same 2 or 3 clubs running each league?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 4, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			It wasn't that long ago everyone was saying how the PL was the strongest in Europe. I assume now then that after taking all 4 finals places in Europe last season, and World Club champ in the PL it's not now?
So is the PL now like the Bundesliga was....one team in complete control?
		
Click to expand...

It still is the strongest in Europe imo, I have to be careful being a blue, but, some of us saying the PL has been poor this season are judging it against previous PL season’s.

It is in no way meant as a slight against LPool, they, imo, are the only team who have greatly improved and that improvement is to a completely another level.

A substandard PL season is still stronger than any other league in Europe.

Last season City were lauded as the greatest PL team we’ve witnessed, LPool (gulp) have gone beyond them this season, even if it was the greatest PL season I firmly believe we’d still see LPool being streets ahead.

I need to go drink bleach to wash my mouth out.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			So is that because they have dropped the ball or has everyone else got stronger with more even money splits?
Perhaps we preferred it with the same 2 or 3 clubs running each league?
		
Click to expand...

Could be down to a few of the big key players knocking on a bit.
Barca & Real aren’t overly impressive at the moment imo.


----------



## Wolf (Feb 4, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Could be down to a few of the *big key players knocking on a bit.*
Barca & Real aren’t overly impressive at the moment imo.
		
Click to expand...

I think that's a really good point.. We seem to be hitting a lull in the number of those true standout world class performers.. Messi in his 30s, REAL haven't really had any since Ronaldo went. Italian league hasn't for some time thrown up a Baggio/Totti type


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 4, 2020)

Wolf said:



			I think that's a really good point.. We seem to be hitting a lull in the number of those true standout world class performers.. Messi in his 30s, REAL haven't really had any since Ronaldo went. Italian league hasn't for some time thrown up a Baggio/Totti type
		
Click to expand...

Or is that certain Spanish or Italian clubs are no longer hoovering up the talent like they used to and the younger talent is spread about more?


----------



## Wolf (Feb 4, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Or is that certain Spanish or Italian clubs are no longer hoovering up the talent like they used to and the younger talent is spread about more?
		
Click to expand...

Probably a very good point BM, but also I think the modern transfer values and wages have somewhat masked a lot of true talent. Look at PSG they've arguably 2 of the greatest talents in current qorld football playing upfront for them in arguably one of the weakest top divisions yet not many clubs can afford to pry them away.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 4, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Probably a very good point BM, but also I think the modern transfer values and wages have somewhat masked a lot of true talent. Look at PSG they've arguably 2 of the greatest talents in current qorld football playing upfront for them in arguably one of the weakest top divisions yet not many clubs can afford to pry them away.
		
Click to expand...

But are they not there simply because the clubs owners have the funds to keep them and the dodgy way Barca and Real funded and operated is now under much greater control?


----------



## Wolf (Feb 4, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			But are they not there simply because the clubs owners have the funds to keep them and the dodgy way Barca and Real funded and operated is now under much greater control?
		
Click to expand...

Again possibly you're right with that but that in itself I think proves the misconceptions of the greatest leagues in the world theory. Because the greatest players don't necessarily play in it, want to play in it or simply can't play in it because of the financial offerings elsewhere. The amount of wealth in the game now is so vast that there will never be a greatest league because nobody chooses to play for teams like they used to based on history, or because who the team are. It literally now is who pays the most regardless of what you can win. I think a better term than greatest league should be most competitive league, but this season doesn't equate to that due to how uncompetitive the PL has been.. Liverpool have been excellent theres no doubt abiut that but the rest has been a little wanting


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 4, 2020)

Klopp not the only gaffer that has missed matches https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51357228


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 4, 2020)

Liverpool would win the league this year, whatever. They are by far the best team, playing the best footy, managed by the best manager. It could be closer, others could be playing better, but Liverpool would still win it. The best team does. It's how it goes. 
I don't have to like it, but it is what it is.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 4, 2020)

VAR at Liverpool, I thought they were on holiday 😁


----------



## davemc1 (Feb 4, 2020)

Boom 😃


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 4, 2020)

TheDiablo said:



			But the point is it doesn't show that at all. It's a mathematical principle that the distribution of points will remain close to average year on year regardless of the relative 'strength' of the league. So it neither proves or disproves your point, it isn't something that should be used as a 'factual' thing.

That others are in the top 6 only strengthens the argument imo. Leicester have had a good season but have been mid table for a couple of years and capitalised well on the failings of others.

For Wolves, read Everton, Villa, Bolton, Leeds teams of the past (and many more). There's always a couple of decent mid table sides that have good years and push into the top 5/6, their season isn't anything new.

I still don't really understand why you care what others think/say about your success, but it's fine that you do 👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

I care much more about us winning the league than anything, but when people talk shoit on here, my wick gets tickled.

I've explained it a few times, some know what I'm on about, some just dont get it. Overall the "challengers" in 2nd and 3rd place are on a similar points tally to normal 2nd and 3rd place challengers after 25 games. Its just that the number 1 has been unbelievable by getting 73 points which is unprecedented. I cant phrase it any simpler than that.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 4, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I care much more about us winning the league than anything, but when people talk shoit on here, my wick gets tickled.

I've explained it a few times, some know what I'm on about, some just dont get it. Overall the "challengers" in 2nd and 3rd place are on a similar points tally to normal 2nd and 3rd place challengers after 25 games. Its just that the number 1 has been unbelievable by getting 73 points which is unprecedented. I cant phrase it any simpler than that.
		
Click to expand...

That’s 1 criteria Pete, surely you don’t think that’s how we should only judge the season?

I’ll propose another angle as to why I believe it is poorer (excluding LPool) than previous years.

Everton(let’s be honest) currently and for the past 5 years a mid table team, I would worry about playing the big 6 home and away and hoping to get the odd win or point here and there, this season, genuinely, apart from yourselves I believe we can get a result against any of the other 5 regardless of home or away, that’s not because we’ve improved it’s because they’ve dropped a peg or 2 and are inconsistent.

Look at the teams the others in the top 6 have dropped points against, it’s hit and miss.

Now I accept you may say that them dropping points against lesser teams is a sign the lesser teams are closing the gap, but I don’t believe it is.

I can only say we may not be able to judge the other 19 teams in the PL until next season and if we see if the other big 5 up their game and the sad “status quo” is returned

None of what I’ve put is intended to detract from what yous have and are achieving.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 4, 2020)

Brilliant performance from the young lads up against a well experienced, strong unit.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 5, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			That’s 1 criteria Pete, surely you don’t think that’s how we should only judge the season?

I’ll propose another angle as to why I believe it is poorer (excluding LPool) than previous years.

Everton(let’s be honest) currently and for the past 5 years a mid table team, I would worry about playing the big 6 home and away and hoping to get the odd win or point here and there, this season, genuinely, apart from yourselves I believe we can get a result against any of the other 5 regardless of home or away, that’s not because we’ve improved it’s because they’ve dropped a peg or 2 and are inconsistent.

Look at the teams the others in the top 6 have dropped points against, it’s hit and miss.

Now I accept you may say that them dropping points against lesser teams is a sign the lesser teams are closing the gap, but I don’t believe it is.

I can only say we may not be able to judge the other 19 teams in the PL until next season and if we see if the other big 5 up their game and the sad “status quo” is returned

None of what I’ve put is intended to detract from what yous have and are achieving.
		
Click to expand...

There are loads of different criteria that people could bring to the table, your right. At least you brought (a) criteria to the table. 

Some dont even know what the table is, how many legs it's got......or how weak/strong it is.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 5, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			There are loads of different criteria that people could bring to the table, your right. At least you brought (a) criteria to the table.

Some dont even know what the table is, how many legs it's got......or how weak/strong it is.

Click to expand...

The only table that matters is the league table, the league doesn’t lie according to a forum stalwart😉


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Brilliant performance from the young lads up against a well experienced, strong unit.
		
Click to expand...

Hats off to the young lads ..must be a good bunch to beat Shrewsbury's first 11 when so young 

Our young lad Holland scored in 90th min to take Oxford to extra time 

VAR tho has got my goat more in the FA cup than anything 

Scrap it.. if it can't be at every game then it's not a level playing field. Remove it entirely from the cup

And the game in general (but that's another rant)


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 5, 2020)

Read a few comments re VAR again. The Shrewsbury goal disallowed last night. If it was at Shrewsbury there’s no VAR, goal stands, Same at forest V Chelsea earlier this season. And before anyone kicks off coz Ave mentioned a team west of Manchester. Same at Swansea last season when City went through. It’s either used at every stadium in the cup or none.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 5, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Read a few comments re VAR again. The Shrewsbury goal disallowed last night. If it was at Shrewsbury there’s no VAR, goal stands, Same at forest V Chelsea earlier this season. And before anyone kicks off coz Ave mentioned a team west of Manchester. Same at Swansea last season when City went through. It’s either used at every stadium in the cup or none.
		
Click to expand...

So every match should be refereed by the same referee then? Otherwise the games aren’t being run to the same officiating standard.

Or does that not suit the narrative?


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 5, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I care much more about us winning the league than anything, but when people talk shoit on here, my wick gets tickled.

I've explained it a few times, some know what I'm on about, some just dont get it. Overall the "challengers" in 2nd and 3rd place are on a similar points tally to normal 2nd and 3rd place challengers after 25 games. Its just that the number 1 has been unbelievable by getting 73 points which is unprecedented. I cant phrase it any simpler than that.
		
Click to expand...

Would you not say then based on the above that City are not weaker but much weaker than last year.
The league is weaker Pete I don’t need stats to see that.
Liverpool are stronger though


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 5, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			VAR tho has got my goat more in the FA cup than anything

Scrap it.. if it can't be at every game then it's not a level playing field. Remove it entirely from the cup

And the game in general (but that's another rant)
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree. Seems to just make it even harder for a small club to go to a PL side and cause any form of upset anymore. I can imagine even as far back as Dickie Guy saving Lorimer's penalty at Elland Road when non-league Wimbledon got a massive 0-0 draw. Bet VAR would have had that retaken now. It simply isn't fair to have it in some games and not others. All or nothing


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 5, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Hats off to the young lads ..must be a good bunch to beat Shrewsbury's first 11 when so young

Our young lad Holland scored in 90th min to take Oxford to extra time

VAR tho has got my goat more in the FA cup than anything

Scrap it.. *if it can't be at every game then it's not a level playing field. Remove it entirely from the cup*

And the game in general (but that's another rant)
		
Click to expand...

I wholeheartedly agree. It makes a mockery of the competition.

Fans and media complaining about how Klopp has disrespected the competition, poor Shrewsbury missing out on £500k etc but its barely been mentioned that the cup this season isn’t a level playing field.

Whoever wins it should have an * against their name, unless of course it’s us for the double/treble then it’ll be the greatest win ever😆😆


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 5, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Totally agree. Seems to just make it even harder for a small club to go to a PL side and cause any form of upset anymore. I can imagine even as far back as Dickie Guy saving Lorimer's penalty at Elland Road when non-league Wimbledon got a massive 0-0 draw. Bet VAR would have had that retaken now. It simply isn't fair to have it in some games and not others. All or nothing
		
Click to expand...

As opposed to the small club getting a pen which earns them a replay when it should’ve been a free kick just outside the box? 😉

But yes I get your point.


----------



## TheDiablo (Feb 5, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I care much more about us winning the league than anything, but when people talk shoit on here, my wick gets tickled.

I've explained it a few times, some know what I'm on about, some just dont get it. Overall the "challengers" in 2nd and 3rd place are on a similar points tally to normal 2nd and 3rd place challengers after 25 games. Its just that the number 1 has been unbelievable by getting 73 points which is unprecedented. I cant phrase it any simpler than that.
		
Click to expand...

Likewise, I've tried to explain what is a fairly simple mathematical principle and cant explain it in any more layman's terms, I've been guilty of overestimating the mathematical agility of the average man on the street before and seems I am guilty of that again here. Must always remember to test it out on the Mrs first.

If youve genuinely convinced yourself that title opposition is no weaker than previous years then good for you.

If others genuinely think Liverpool are winning the league for any other reason than sheer quality and their relentless performances then they are deluded and not really worth debating with.


----------



## Wolf (Feb 5, 2020)

TheDiablo said:



			Likewise, I've tried to explain what is a fairly simple mathematical principle and cant explain it in any more layman's terms, I've been guilty of overestimating the mathematical agility of the average man on the street before and seems I am guilty of that again here. Must always remember to test it out on the Mrs first.

If youve genuinely convinced yourself that title opposition is no weaker than previous years then good for you.

If others genuinely think Liverpool are winning the league for any other reason than sheer quality and their relentless performances then they are deluded and not really worth debating with.
		
Click to expand...

Nailed it.... 👍

The other thing is why does it matter so much to some fans (insert any team fans) that their team gets praised by other teams fans for winning or being better.. Liverpool are gonna win the leg well done, but frankly I don't care or feel I should laud them im more concerned how crap Arsenal season has been because that's who I support.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 5, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Nailed it.... 👍

The other thing is why does it matter so much to some fans (insert any team fans) that their team gets praised by other teams fans for winning or being better.. Liverpool are gonna win the leg well done, but frankly I don't care or feel I should laud them im more concerned how crap Arsenal season has been because that's who I support.
		
Click to expand...

Possibly because it’s 2 different things:

1. You support a Club.
2. You follow Football.

2 to me means appreciating quality and good football, regardless of the team, League, etc without bias.

You get supporters of all Clubs who cannot or will not give credit to any opposition, that’s not a true supporter to me, that’s someone who belongs to a cult.


----------



## Wolf (Feb 5, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Possibly because it’s 2 different things:

1. You support a Club.
2. You follow Football.

2 to me means appreciating quality and good football, regardless of the team, League, etc without bias.

You get supporters of all Clubs who cannot or will not give credit to any opposition, that’s not a true supporter to me, that’s someone who belongs to a cult.

Click to expand...

I've said before well done Liverpool deserved winner's this year and no issue congratulating them.. But it's the faux outrage many are showing across social media platforms and whining people aren't giving them more credit than that makes me laugh.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 5, 2020)

Wolf said:



			I've said before well done Liverpool deserved winner's this year and no issue congratulating them.. But it's the faux outrage many are showing across social media platforms and whining people aren't giving them more credit than that makes me laugh.
		
Click to expand...

I have my bucket of rose pettles ready to throw in front of every Liverpool fan I meet post league win. Will that be enough to satisfy do you think?


----------



## Wolf (Feb 5, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I have my bucket of rose pettles ready to throw in front of every Liverpool fan I meet post league win. Will that be enough to satisfy do you think?
		
Click to expand...

Will you be on your knees lauding them, singing you'll never walk alone, whilst clad in a 70s sheepskin jacket, with a curly wig whilst scattering said customised liver bird petals.. If not then you're not making enough effort 😂


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 5, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Will you be on your knees lauding them, singing you'll never walk alone, whilst clad in a 70s sheepskin jacket, with a curly wig whilst scattering said customised liver bird petals.. If not then you're not making enough effort 😂
		
Click to expand...

As a blue I am not worthy of singing that song, nor wearing said clothing. I will be keeping my head down, not making eye contact, distributing petals for them to walk on. I know my place.


----------



## Wolf (Feb 5, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			As a blue I am not worthy of singing that song, nor wearing said clothing. I will be keeping my head down, not making eye contact, distributing petals for them to walk on. I know my place.
		
Click to expand...

Oh your one of those 2nd class citizens then. Best get back in your corner then😉


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2020)

🙄

I think at the end of the day what other fans think doesnt really matter but people love the extremes

On here for example it’s pretty down the middle - credit given with the odd “weakest league in living memory “ and only winning because of VAR but on the whole people are generally “best team winning etc” 

But other social media outlets are hilarious in people’s desire to find an excuse or reason for Liverpool winning the league beyond them just being better than others - statman Gaz is just a drop in the ocean of the scrambling around to find reasons but again extremes even though it’s amazing the self belief people like him have. Most of the level headed fans don’t have those extremes and reading stuff that people like Diablo have posted shows that level headed reasoning is alive and well. 

It is amusing to see that one season it’s City the greatest team seen in Prem history and then the next season it’s the weakest league in living memory 😂 head scratching but oh well going to be see great celebrations coming - who knows - unbeaten season maybe , treble ? Double ? CL 🤭 could be the most successful season in history 😲 

But let’s hope it’s the start of more great things 🥳


----------



## Wolf (Feb 5, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🙄

I think at the end of the day what other fans think doesnt really matter but people love the extremes

On here for example it’s pretty down the middle - credit given with the odd “weakest league in living memory “ and only winning because of VAR but on the whole people are generally “best team winning etc”

But other social media outlets are hilarious in people’s desire to find an excuse or reason for Liverpool winning the league beyond them just being better than others - statman Gaz is just a drop in the ocean of the scrambling around to find reasons but again extremes even though it’s amazing the self belief people like him have. Most of the level headed fans don’t have those extremes and reading stuff that people like Diablo have posted shows that level headed reasoning is alive and well.

It is amusing to see that one season it’s City the greatest team seen in Prem history and then the next season it’s the weakest league in living memory 😂 head scratching but oh well going to be see great celebrations coming - who knows - unbeaten season maybe , treble ? Double ? CL 🤭 could be the most successful season in history 😲

But let’s hope it’s the start of more great things 🥳[/QUOTE
		
Click to expand...

m
🎣.. Got one🐠😂


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 5, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🙄

I think at the end of the day what other fans think doesnt really matter but people love the extremes

On here for example it’s pretty down the middle - credit given with the odd “weakest league in living memory “ and only winning because of VAR but on the whole people are generally “best team winning etc”

But other social media outlets are hilarious in people’s desire to find an excuse or reason for Liverpool winning the league beyond them just being better than others - statman Gaz is just a drop in the ocean of the scrambling around to find reasons but again extremes even though it’s amazing the self belief people like him have. Most of the level headed fans don’t have those extremes and reading stuff that people like Diablo have posted shows that level headed reasoning is alive and well.

It is amusing to see that one season it’s City the greatest team seen in Prem history and then the next season it’s the weakest league in living memory 😂 head scratching but oh well going to be see great celebrations coming - who knows - unbeaten season maybe , treble ? Double ? CL 🤭 could be the most successful season in history 😲

But let’s hope it’s the start of more great things 🥳[/QUOTE

The trouble is Phil you have such a short memory
In your history you have slated Arsenal,Spurs Utd Everton and more,to the extreme of saying they have the worst players and managers.
You have argued the toss so much good people have left the forum.
I said it’s the weakest league in my memory and that won’t change.
I’ve praised Klopp for what he’s done but all you’ve done is mock Oli,it will take time at Utd whoever was there including Klopp.
Take a leaf out of Stus book and enjoy your season because the the league will never be this weak again.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Junior (Feb 5, 2020)

OMG ........ It's February and it's already unbearable.  

Seriously, what impresses me the most is the work rate of the Liverpool team off the ball, and when they are not in possetion. Reminds me of the great Barce teams of the days of Inesta, Xavi, Puyol, Ronaldinio etc.  Well played.  Can't take anythign away from them. 

Anyway, enjoy it while it lasts.....Hopefully next year Klopp will do one to Madrid for ten times his salary and he'll buy VVD for 200 mil plus Salah & Mane for 100 mil each.  You'll replace them with Mourinio, John Stones, Andy Carroll and Lukaku.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2020)

Junior said:



			OMG ........ It's February and it's already unbearable.  

Seriously, what impresses me the most is the work rate of the Liverpool team off the ball, and when they are not in possetion. Reminds me of the great Barce teams of the days of Inesta, Xavi, Puyol, Ronaldinio etc.  Well played.  Can't take anythign away from them.

Anyway, enjoy it while it lasts.....Hopefully next year Klopp will do one to Madrid for ten times his salary and he'll buy VVD for 200 mil plus Salah & Mane for 100 mil each.  You'll replace them with Mourinio, John Stones, Andy Carroll and Lukaku.    

Click to expand...

Don’t forget Charlie Adam coming back 😁


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 5, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Will you be on your knees lauding them, singing you'll never walk alone, whilst clad in a 70s sheepskin jacket, with a curly wig whilst scattering said customised liver bird petals.. If not then you're not making enough effort 😂
		
Click to expand...

You forgot the Tash. 👍😉


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 5, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			As a blue I am not worthy of singing that song, nor wearing said clothing. I will be keeping my head down, not making eye contact, distributing petals for them to walk on. I know my place.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂😂😂when we do the retired miners do at Xmas, one of the fellow committee members goes out of the room for a fag as the crap club singer always finishes off with YNWA  and the bloke follows Everton and will not listen to it. Mind you when I hear “country rd” I am the same.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 5, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			😂😂😂😂😂😂when we do the retired miners do at Xmas, *one of the fellow committee members goes out of the room for a fag as the crap club singer always finishes off with YNWA  and the bloke follows Everton and will not listen t*o it. Mind you when I hear “country rd” I am the same.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂 Imagine being that bitter over a song. Embarrassing.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			😂😂 Imagine being that bitter over a song. Embarrassing.
		
Click to expand...

Heyup here comes your supporter and you liked me post. 😘
Fortunately at the moment Country rd isn't played that much coz Utd are as rammel as City 😁


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2020)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....fa-player-of-the-year-award-20200203.amp.html

What a turnaround from him

Not so long ago Rodgers was trying to swap him for Dempsey , when we came close to winning under Rodgers , Henderson was key until he was banned for a red card with many believing him missing was key to us missing out. Since Klopp arrived he has just grown into one of our most important players and outstanding skipper - he doesn’t get enough credit for his work because it’s not the glamour work you see from the front three and rarely gets the headlines but for me he has been outstanding this season and should imo be England captain. 
I’ll still be surprised if he wins Player of the Year but if he does it will be fully deserved


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 5, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....fa-player-of-the-year-award-20200203.amp.html

What a turnaround from him

Not so long ago Rodgers was trying to swap him for Dempsey , when we came close to winning under Rodgers , Henderson was key until he was banned for a red card with many believing him missing was key to us missing out. Since Klopp arrived he has just grown into one of our most important players and outstanding skipper - he doesn’t get enough credit for his work because it’s not the glamour work you see from the front three and rarely gets the headlines but for me he has been outstanding this season and should imo be England captain.
I’ll still be surprised if he wins Player of the Year but if he does it will be fully deserved
		
Click to expand...

For Liverpool it’s hard to really argue with any of that. 
My reservations are more with England. He’s found a perfect role with you guys. If we lined up and played the same way at intl level, which I think we should then it’s a no brainier. 

Unfortunately we have Southgate I’m charge and I’m not sure he can see how easily we could attempt to mirror your style, which imo is much more suited to the natural English game.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			For Liverpool it’s hard to really argue with any of that.
My reservations are more with England. He’s found a perfect role with you guys. If we lined up and played the same way at intl level, which I think we should then it’s a no brainier.

Unfortunately we have Southgate I’m charge and I’m not sure he can see how easily we could attempt to mirror your style, which imo is much more suited to the natural English game.
		
Click to expand...

This is how I think England should line up if Kane is out injured

Pope

TAA
Gomez
Maguire ?
Chilwell

Rice
Henderson
Oxlade/Maddison

Sancho
Abraham/Ings
Sterling 

A lot of pace , Young , skillful. Not a bad team on paper


----------



## Slime (Feb 5, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It is amusing to see that *one season it’s City the greatest team seen in Prem history and then the next season it’s the weakest league in living memory* 😂 head scratching but oh well going to be see great celebrations coming - who knows - unbeaten season maybe , treble ? Double ? CL 🤭 could be the most successful season in history 😲
		
Click to expand...

Maybe City were the greatest, maybe it's now L'pool, maybe it was Utd's team of '99 or maybe the Arsenal Invincibles.
I think it's impossible to compare.
Maybe it is the EPL's weakest ever season, again it doesn't really matter and is subject to peoples' opinions.
What is fact is that this current L'pool team are absolutely superb and definitely going to be worthy champions.
I doff my cap to Klopp and his team, absolutely outstanding performance and worthy of all the plaudits coming their way.
There, I said it!
However, I do hope it never happens again!


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 5, 2020)

Sorry but Henderson player of the year?? Is this a Liverpool fan wind-up or something? Have they hijacked another Twitter poll? He is bang average but playing in a top side.

His pass success is 84.7% which is on a par with Conor Coady. His tackles per game is 2.2, the exact same as McTominay and James McArthur. Interceptions? One. Just one per game. Key passes per game? Again, just one. He excels at nothing, he is a jack of all trades nothing more. What on earth makes people think he can be the player of the year??


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 5, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			This is how I think England should line up if Kane is out injured

Pope

TAA
Gomez
Maguire ?
Chilwell

Rice
Henderson
Oxlade/Maddison

Sancho
Abraham/Ings
Sterling

A lot of pace , Young , skillful. Not a bad team on paper
		
Click to expand...

Decent England team, I would say Winks in for Rice against the poorer teams though. Rice offers nothing in possession, he's only useful against stronger teams for his defensive presence.


----------



## davemc1 (Feb 5, 2020)

If the kids win the FA Cup, is it kids v adults in the charity shield? 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 5, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			This is how I think England should line up if Kane is out injured

Pope

TAA
Gomez
Maguire ?
Chilwell

Rice
Henderson
Oxlade/Maddison

Sancho
Abraham/Ings
Sterling

A lot of pace , Young , skillful. Not a bad team on paper
		
Click to expand...

I’d rather we were a little more aggressive. I really don’t see much in rice yet, other than he’s meant to be a Dm so people are getting all excited about him.

Would probably keep TRex in goal as he hasn’t let England down.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 5, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Would probably keep TRex in goal as he hasn’t let England down.
		
Click to expand...

A Ford Mondeo might not let you down but you still wouldn't say no to Bentley. Pope is just a better keeper.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 5, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			A Ford Mondeo might not let you down but you still wouldn't say no to Bentley. Pope is just a better keeper.
		
Click to expand...

ive not seen anything from Pope in the league that betters Pickford in goal for England. He’s made stakes too, it’s just the English way. Praise keeper, batter keeper, ruin career early and then reset. 

But we all have differing views. You’d put Winks in the England team, but don’t rate Henderson. I can’t see what winks actually does but pass sideways.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I’d rather we were a little more aggressive. I really don’t see much in rice yet, other than he’s meant to be a Dm so people are getting all excited about him.

Would probably keep TRex in goal as he hasn’t let England down.
		
Click to expand...

The brave move would be to put a midfield of Henderson - Ox and then either Maddison or Grealish just in front. 


Orikoru said:



			Sorry but Henderson player of the year?? Is this a Liverpool fan wind-up or something? Have they hijacked another Twitter poll? He is bang average but playing in a top side.

His pass success is 84.7% which is on a par with Conor Coady. His tackles per game is 2.2, the exact same as McTominay and James McArthur. Interceptions? One. Just one per game. Key passes per game? Again, just one. He excels at nothing, he is a jack of all trades nothing more. What on earth makes people think he can be the player of the year??
		
Click to expand...

You see that’s what happens when you judge a player based on stats - on the pitch he has been outstanding all season on either the number 8 role or number 6


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 5, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			ive not seen anything from Pope in the league that betters Pickford in goal for England. He’s made stakes too, it’s just the English way. Praise keeper, batter keeper, ruin career early and then reset.

But we all have differing views. You’d put Winks in the England team, but don’t rate Henderson. I can’t see what winks actually does but pass sideways.
		
Click to expand...

Didn't say I don't rate Henderson, he deserves being in the England team - we're not exactly blessed for options. I just don't rate him as the best player in the entire league this season. 



Liverpoolphil said:



			You see that’s what happens when you judge a player based on stats - on the pitch he has been outstanding all season on either the number 8 role or number 6
		
Click to expand...

He's done well with a good team around him, but what has he actually done better than every other player in the league?? The fact is you could replace him with any number of other jack of all trades midfielders who would have done equally well - that shouldn't be the case for your player of the year. 

As mentions, he never stands out for England, because he's not surrounded by the same quality of players - and he is not a stand-out player himself.

My shout for player of the year incidentally would probably be Trent, I think he has a massive shout. Huge contributions to his team, from right back - not even right wing back technically - best in his position in the league, etc. With Henderson, as well as he plays you could name 5 other Prem midfielders you'd rather have, but with Trent you'd be hard pushed to name one. Age may count against him though, as they'll likely just give him the young player award and leave it at that.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 5, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			A Ford Mondeo might not let you down but you still wouldn't say no to Bentley. Pope is just a better keeper.
		
Click to expand...

Based on what? Your opinion, league position etc, I can find stats that will show Pickford as better or worse, the fact it’s those 2 we’re discussing is sad imo. And it’s firm we should consider then the kid at Sheff Utd (Henderson) deserves a shout.


----------



## fundy (Feb 5, 2020)

Might be me that still doesnt see it but what has the Ox done to justify be a starter in central midfielder for England?


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 5, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Based on what? Your opinion, league position etc, I can find stats that will show Pickford as better or worse, the fact it’s those 2 we’re discussing is sad imo. And it’s firm we should consider then the kid at Sheff Utd (Henderson) deserves a shout.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I forgot to mention Henderson. Wouldn't be surprised if he's statistically the best, but not having any caps yet will count against him. Could be this tournament comes too early.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			Might be me that still doesnt see it but what has the Ox done to justify be a starter in central midfielder for England?
		
Click to expand...

Actually drives with the ball which not many others do in the England team. You could equally make this case for Maddison or Grealish though. It's a toss-up, those three. One of them should be in I think.


----------



## fundy (Feb 5, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Actually drives with the ball which not many others do in the England team. You could equally make this case for Maddison or Grealish though. It's a toss-up, those three. One of them should be in I think.
		
Click to expand...


one of them is carrying a championship standard side almost single handedly, another has been one of the stars of Leicester overachieving and the third has been cheerleading from the bench and adding the odd cameo. not sure how thats a toss up


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 5, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....fa-player-of-the-year-award-20200203.amp.html

What a turnaround from him

Not so long ago Rodgers was trying to swap him for Dempsey , when we came close to winning under Rodgers , Henderson was key until he was banned for a red card with many believing him missing was key to us missing out. Since Klopp arrived he has just grown into one of our most important players and outstanding skipper - he doesn’t get enough credit for his work because it’s not the glamour work you see from the front three and rarely gets the headlines but for me he has been outstanding this season and should imo be England captain.
I’ll still be surprised if he wins Player of the Year but if he does it will be fully deserved
		
Click to expand...

I actually feel sorry for Henderson, I believe he’s better when he’s got better players around him and he can be his own man knowing his team mates can perform.
With England he’s playing with lesser players and he gets unfairly highlighted, I don’t believe he’s as good as Gerrard or Lampard was as carrying a game on his own, but no one can question his workrate.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			one of them is carrying a championship standard side almost single handedly, another has been one of the stars of Leicester overachieving and the third has been cheerleading from the bench and adding the odd cameo. not sure how thats a toss up
		
Click to expand...

Well Ox has the extra pace which makes him a different option to the other two. I don't think he's a guaranteed starter or anything, but we know Gareth rates him highly because he's admitted it several times. So I think if he's fit he'll get starts.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 5, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			ive not seen anything from Pope in the league that betters Pickford in goal for England. He’s made stakes too, it’s just the English way. Praise keeper, batter keeper, ruin career early and then reset.

But we all have differing views. You’d put Winks in the England team, but don’t rate Henderson. I can’t see what winks actually does but pass sideways.
		
Click to expand...

Did you not see Winks ball to Son against City
Come on Dave wake up


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 5, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Did you not see Winks ball to Son against City
Come on Dave wake up 

Click to expand...

Nope, not seen it, or seen much talk of it on here. Must have been a worldie


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 5, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Nope, not seen it, or seen much talk of it on here. Must have been a worldie
		
Click to expand...

It wasn’t sideways 
When you talk of sideways Henderson is the king.


----------



## Wolf (Feb 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			one of them is carrying a championship standard side almost single handedly, another has been one of the stars of Leicester overachieving and the third has been cheerleading from the bench and adding the odd cameo. not sure how thats a toss up
		
Click to expand...

Agreed I'd have both Grealish and Maddison ahead of Ox, even stated recently he's not a top club starter , hes a squad player against lesser teams imo


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Didn't say I don't rate Henderson, he deserves being in the England team - we're not exactly blessed for options. I just don't rate him as the best player in the entire league this season.


He's done well with a good team around him, but what has he actually done better than every other player in the league?? The fact is you could replace him with any number of other jack of all trades midfielders who would have done equally well - that shouldn't be the case for your player of the year.

As mentions, he never stands out for England, because he's not surrounded by the same quality of players - and he is not a stand-out player himself.

My shout for player of the year incidentally would probably be Trent, I think he has a massive shout. Huge contributions to his team, from right back - not even right wing back technically - best in his position in the league, etc. With Henderson, as well as he plays you could name 5 other Prem midfielders you'd rather have, but with Trent you'd be hard pushed to name one. Age may count against him though, as they'll likely just give him the young player award and leave it at that.
		
Click to expand...

Again it just shows that you are unable to appreciate what he adds to the team 

This is very good article about him 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....rard-jurgen-klopp-standings-a9318056.html?amp

Each season he adds more to his game , he was always accused of just passing sideways despite it being shown to be a false statement , and this year he has added a quality long pass into his game , I think he is on 5 assists now which is more than the likes of Mason Mount but if he doesn’t assist a lot of times he has played a key pass to either release a player or spray it wide. 
But i suspect he will never get any credit because at lot of his work is unseen - but to state he is “bang average” is laughable imo


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 5, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			It wasn’t sideways
When you talk of sideways Henderson is the king.
		
Click to expand...

Have you watched Henderson lately.

I agree he used to, but he plays accurate long passes forward regularly. Whilst being more mobile than winks and has even scored a few of late. Which he did earlier in his career.

i think both could start for England, but if it’s just one. Winks isn’t even close.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 5, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Have you watched Henderson lately.

I agree he used to, but he plays accurate long passes forward regularly. Whilst being more mobile than winks and has even scored a few of late. Which he did earlier in his career.

i think both could start for England, but if it’s just one. Winks isn’t even close.
		
Click to expand...

I never said Winks was did I.
All I said was Winks does pass forward


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 5, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			I never said Winks was did I.
All I said was Winks does pass forward
		
Click to expand...

Ok, so they both pass forward.
depending on when you watch em.
gotcha


----------



## Beezerk (Feb 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			Might be me that still doesnt see it but what has the Ox done to justify be a starter in central midfielder for England?
		
Click to expand...

Because he plays for Liverpool, best team ever innit 😁
Seriously though, I think internationally England still have the weakest midfield of all the major nations. Winks doesn't cut it for me at the minute, Grealish really? Above average player in a below average team.
I'd have Henderson in there still, he's the steady get the ball and move it on type player, I just wish we had that one or two real world class Gazza types who take you to the next level.


----------



## fundy (Feb 5, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Because he plays for Liverpool, best team ever innit 😁
Seriously though, I think internationally England still have the weakest midfield of all the major nations. Winks doesn't cut it for me at the minute, Grealish really? Above average player in a below average team.
I'd have Henderson in there still, he's the steady get the ball and move it on type player, I just wish we had that one or two real world class Gazza types who take you to the next level.
		
Click to expand...


Id have Grealish at Arsenal in a hearbeat, think hes good and will only get better , especially if he had better players around him (which is why he'll prob go elsewhere lol)


----------



## Beezerk (Feb 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			Id have Grealish at Arsenal in a hearbeat, think hes good and will only get better , especially if he had better players around him (which is why he'll prob go elsewhere lol)
		
Click to expand...

He seems to have been around for years, I'm of the opinion if he was any good he'd already have been snapped up by a big club. If you'd like him at Arsenal it doesn't say a great deal about your team 🤣😉


----------



## fundy (Feb 5, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			He seems to have been around for years, I'm of the opinion if he was any good he'd already have been snapped up by a big club. If you'd like him at Arsenal it doesn't say a great deal about your team 🤣😉
		
Click to expand...


hes only 24, we have Ozil in his role currently, do i need to say anymore


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			He seems to have been around for years, I'm of the opinion if he was any good he'd already have been snapped up by a big club. If you'd like him at Arsenal it doesn't say a great deal about your team 🤣😉
		
Click to expand...

He is only 24 and has only stayed because it’s his boyhood club,  was going to go to Spurs the other year but it didn’t work out , I would take him at Liverpool , he is quality.


----------



## Beezerk (Feb 5, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He is only 24 and has only stayed because it’s his boyhood club,  was going to go to Spurs the other year but it didn’t work out , I would take him at Liverpool , he is quality.
		
Click to expand...

Blimey, maybe I need to watch more of him then. Clips I've seen he looks weak on the ball and not great tactically.


----------



## fundy (Feb 5, 2020)

will be a big auction for him if Villa go down, might still be if they dont too!


----------



## fundy (Feb 5, 2020)

for someone with a nasty streak Son dont half go down easily and whine like a bitch when hes not even been caught!


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 5, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Would probably keep TRex in goal as he hasn’t let England down.
		
Click to expand...

Which one Sterling or Pickford.

Sterling is probably the better keeper.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			Might be me that still doesnt see it but what has the Ox done to justify be a starter in central midfielder for England?
		
Click to expand...

I think there was a stat last week that said he had scored 7 in his last 13 starts. Okay they may be spread out a bit due to his injuries, but I'll leave that one with you.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 5, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He is only 24 and has only stayed because it’s his boyhood club,  was going to go to Spurs the other year but it didn’t work out , I would take him at Liverpool , he is quality.
		
Click to expand...

Nar, just a tippy-tappy MOTD highlights player.

I'd rather stick with the Ox and even give Keita another season to improve before I got Grealish in.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			😂😂 Imagine being that bitter over a song. Embarrassing.
		
Click to expand...

Everton fan mate of mine, asked me for a tee as he had broken his.
I offered a red one and he declined or words to that effect.
Hit his shot off the deck before he would use a red tee.


----------



## fundy (Feb 6, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think there was a stat last week that said he had scored 7 in his last 13 starts. Okay they may be spread out a bit due to his injuries, but I'll leave that one with you.
		
Click to expand...


leave what with me? do you think that enough to prove hes a starting centre midfielder at international level?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			leave what with me? do you think that enough to prove hes a starting centre midfielder at international level?
		
Click to expand...

yup


----------



## adam6177 (Feb 6, 2020)

Just watched the saints spurs highlights from last night.... How on earth was that penalty not overturned by VAR? unreal.


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 6, 2020)

adam6177 said:



			Just watched the saints spurs highlights from last night.... How on earth was that penalty not overturned by VAR? unreal.
		
Click to expand...

Because the nicest player in the game would never dive .. he's a modern day hero don't you know?


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 6, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Everton fan mate of mine, asked me for a tee as he had broken his.
I offered a red one and he declined or words to that effect.
Hit his shot off the deck before he would use a red tee.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not surprised, from the club who stopped selling Cheese & Owen crisps at Woodison in protest 😂


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm not surprised, from the club who stopped selling Cheese & Owen crisps at Woodison in protest 😂
		
Click to expand...

Rent free, Rent free


----------



## Slime (Feb 6, 2020)

fundy said:



*Id have Grealish at Arsenal in a hearbeat,* think hes good and will only get better , especially if he had better players around him (which is why he'll prob go elsewhere lol)
		
Click to expand...

................... and I would at United.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 6, 2020)

Grealish is superb and is surely well ahead of Maddison for the English team now. Rice should be nowhere near that squad though. An average player having a poor season.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 6, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1225316947446784001
always will be a sad day in football - young talented lives lost - they will never be forgotten


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 6, 2020)

adam6177 said:



			Just watched the saints spurs highlights from last night.... How on earth was that penalty not overturned by VAR? unreal.
		
Click to expand...

You mean this one?




Oh look, is that the goalkeeper's hand wrapped around Son's thigh? I think it is. Can we change the narrative please? Every penalty Spurs get isn't a dive.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 6, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			You mean this one?

View attachment 29116


Oh look, is that the goalkeeper's hand wrapped around Son's thigh? I think it is. Can we change the narrative please? Every penalty Spurs get isn't a dive. 

Click to expand...

A still picture from a video can always make the situation a lot worse that it is 

Son was already on the way down as the keeper touched him 

the keeper didn’t pull him back and the touch was in no way enough for him to go down in the manner he did 

Son dived - learning from Kane and Ali well but the touch from the keeper allowed the penalty to stand


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A still picture from a video can always make the situation a lot worse that it is

Son was already on the way down as the keeper touched him

the keeper didn’t pull him back and the touch was in no way enough for him to go down in the manner he did

Son dived - learning from Kane and Ali well but the touch from the keeper allowed the penalty to stand
		
Click to expand...

If the keeper doesn't bring him down he has an open goal tap-in, why would he go down? Use some common sense.


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 6, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			If the keeper doesn't bring him down he has an open goal tap-in, why would he go down? Use some common sense.
		
Click to expand...

Because he's a dirty cheat who's just a little scum bag? 🤣


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 6, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Because he's a dirty cheat who's just a little scum bag? 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Why would anyone cheat to give themselves a more difficult goalscoring chance? (penalty vs open goal)


----------



## adam6177 (Feb 6, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Why would anyone cheat to give themselves a more difficult goalscoring chance? (penalty vs open goal)
		
Click to expand...

Is a very very good question, but still seems to happen a lot.... last night an example of it.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 6, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Why would anyone cheat to give themselves a more difficult goalscoring chance? (penalty vs open goal)
		
Click to expand...

A seem to remember the likes of Michael Owen (later on), Andy Johnson to think of two would be quite happy to do that. I think it becomes a mindset thing.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 6, 2020)

If the goalie grabs the player's leg with his hand it's a foul. It's really that simple lads.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 6, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			If the goalie grabs the player's leg with his hand it's a foul. It's really that simple lads.
		
Click to expand...

The still shows he “grabbed” his leg - the video of the actual incident shows it was more of light slap - but why does he start to go down before the hand touched the leg ?


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 6, 2020)

If you anticipate a foul, is it any less of a foul?


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The still shows he “grabbed” his leg - the video of the actual incident shows it was more of light slap - but why does he start to go down before the hand touched the leg ?
		
Click to expand...

If somebody lunged across your path while you were running you wouldn't flinch I take it? Just plow on robotically, never deviating.


----------



## Fish (Feb 6, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			If somebody lunged across your path while you were running you wouldn't flinch I take it? Just plow on robotically, never deviating. 

Click to expand...

He’d hit ‘em with his hockey stick 😏


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 6, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			If somebody lunged across your path while you were running you wouldn't flinch I take it? Just plow on robotically, never deviating. 

Click to expand...

Flinch ? He dived down ? Why didn’t he jump over the arm and then have a clear run onto goal ?

He expected the keeper to wipe him out and started to go down - there was slight touch on him from the hand but he was already on his way down - he dived , he isn’t the only one to do it - many other players do the same.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 6, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			If you anticipate a foul, is it any less of a foul?
		
Click to expand...

Many a leg has been saved doing this.
It makes you laugh though doesn’t it slating Son when Mo Salah dives in the box when someone lightly touch his shoulder (soon forgotten though) I’m mean how blinkered are some people.
Every team has them pure and simple.
Everyone is cheating it’s just a mentality of can I get away with it.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Flinch ? He dived down ? Why didn’t he jump over the arm and then have a clear run onto goal ?

He expected the keeper to wipe him out and started to go down - there was slight touch on him from the hand but he was already on his way down - he dived , he isn’t the only one to do it - many other players do the same.
		
Click to expand...

Jump over an arm.. which was near enough waist height?? I know he's athletic but that really would be impressive.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 6, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Jump over an arm.. which was near enough waist height?? I know he's athletic but that really would be impressive.
		
Click to expand...






Here is the video which shows how little the touch was


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:








Here is the video which shows how little the touch was
		
Click to expand...

So you can see Son lifts his right leg to evade the sliding lunge of the keeper, and while he's doing that the keeper's hand also makes contact with his thigh. It's a foul.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 6, 2020)

In other news... that Newcastle fan who got his willy out when they scored has been banned for life, while a Bournemouth fan who shouted racist abuse has been banned for three years. Just goes to show you what type of men are running the FA. Surely those punishments are the wrong way round? How can you deem someone waving their willy as worse than racially abusing someone? Utterly wrong.


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 6, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			In other news... that Newcastle fan who got his willy out when they scored has been banned for life, while a Bournemouth fan who shouted racist abuse has been banned for three years. Just goes to show you what type of men are running the FA. Surely those punishments are the wrong way round? How can you deem someone waving their willy as worse than racially abusing someone? Utterly wrong.
		
Click to expand...

The Bournemouth fan was a child


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 6, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			The Bournemouth fan was a child
		
Click to expand...

Makes no difference imo. 

make an example of em.


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 6, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Makes no difference imo. 

make an example of em.
		
Click to expand...

Children's sentences are normally less severe as they are young and impressionable .. niave aswell


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 6, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Children's sentences are normally less severe as they are young and impressionable .. niave aswell
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I get that in a court of law. haven't seen the case Tbh, but for me. If we are soft on certain things then who does it deter.
if some kids saw their mate punished for life (bearing in mind it’s only missing football for life) maybe they’d think again. 

just googled. The ”kid” is 17. That’s more than old enough to be treated harshly


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 6, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			In other news... that Newcastle fan who got his willy out when they scored has been banned for life, while a Bournemouth fan who shouted racist abuse has been banned for three years. Just goes to show you what type of men are running the FA. Surely those punishments are the wrong way round? *How can you deem someone waving their willy as worse than racially abusing someone*? Utterly wrong.
		
Click to expand...

They're as bad as each other imo. Maybe the latter is far too lenient on this occasion but if you think indecently exposing yourself in a vicinity with women and children in is a “lesser” crime, then i think you need to see someone as you’re utterly wrong.


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 6, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Yeah I get that in a court of law. haven't seen the case Tbh, but for me. If we are soft on certain things then who does it deter.
if some kids saw their mate punished for life (bearing in mind it’s only missing football for life) maybe they’d think again. 

just googled. The ”kid” is 17. That’s more than old enough to be treated harshly
		
Click to expand...

Not in the eyes of the law tho


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 6, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			In other news... that Newcastle fan who got his willy out when they scored has been banned for life, while a Bournemouth fan who shouted racist abuse has been banned for three years. Just goes to show you what type of men are running the FA. Surely those punishments are the wrong way round? How can you deem someone waving their willy as worse than racially abusing someone? Utterly wrong.
		
Click to expand...

Both should be a life ban but the Bournemouth fan is still counted as a minor hence why he only got three years.

The life ban for the man exposing himself is correct


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 6, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Not in the eyes of the law tho
		
Click to expand...

I accept that. 

But clubs have the ability to ban their own.


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 6, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I accept that. 

But clubs have the ability to ban their own.
		
Click to expand...

It's enough of a ban to make him question his behaviour , and for others to take note 

The Newcastle one I suspect is worse because it was on national TV


----------



## Beezerk (Feb 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:








Here is the video which shows how little the touch was
		
Click to expand...

Iirc, you vehemently defended Sane when he won some penalties from "little touches".
I don't think you can have it both ways 👍


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Both should be a life ban but the Bournemouth fan is still counted as a minor hence why he only got three years.

The life ban for the man exposing himself is correct
		
Click to expand...

When did you become the definitive voice? Surely in your opinion?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 6, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			When did you become the definitive voice? Surely in your opinion?
		
Click to expand...

What a pointless post. All any of us give on here is an opinion.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			They're as bad as each other imo. Maybe the latter is far too lenient on this occasion but if you think indecently exposing yourself in a vicinity with women and children in is a “lesser” crime, then i think you need to see someone as you’re utterly wrong.
		
Click to expand...

No way, I'm not having that. A little bit of human body on show equivalent to abusing a person because of their race?? Completely different ball park for me.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			What a pointless post. All any of us give on here is an opinion.

Click to expand...

I try to be very careful regarding LP. I simply thought it was OTT to say the offence is correct. I thought both were wrong, and you could argue deserved equal punishment. It was merely the way (as LP can do) a very definite (and therefore right) answer. As O say I try hard to stay out of his posts, just thought this was wrong. Given my opinion and won't be expanding or replying further


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 6, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I try to be very careful regarding LP. I simply thought it was OTT to say the offence is correct. I thought both were wrong, and you could argue deserved equal punishment. It was merely the way (as LP can do) a very definite (and therefore right) answer. As O say I try hard to stay out of his posts, just thought this was wrong. Given my opinion and won't be expanding or replying further
		
Click to expand...

And a 2nd pointless post, he was clearly replying directly to one person.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 6, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			No way, I'm not having that.* A little bit of human body on show *equivalent to abusing a person because of their race?? Completely different ball park for me.
		
Click to expand...


You’re entitled to your opinion, if it was accidental I might agree, but this was pre meditated. What sort of creature celebrates a goal by their team by flashing their tackle?? It’s disgusting behaviour that has no acceptable excuse  or place in society, nevermind football. I often take my 10yr old lad to football matches and sometimes my 13yr old daughter, I wouldn’t like him or her to see this sort of behaviour.

If your the type to defend this behaviour then I suggest you attend the local Police station and sign yourself onto the register.


----------



## Wolf (Feb 6, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			No way, I'm not having that. A little bit of human body on show equivalent to abusing a person because of their race?? Completely different ball park for me.
		
Click to expand...

You sure you think someone whipping their old chap out in a public place where hundreds (minimum) of minors are is not worthy of a lifetime ban.. Do that in a local park and the fella rightly gets put on a register. The punishment for his actions was spot on.

As for the racism absolutely agree the ban doesn't fit crime and should be a life ban. But no way does that mean the weirdo with his knob out got a bad deal.


----------



## Slime (Feb 6, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			No way, I'm not having that. A little bit of human body on show equivalent to abusing a person because of their race?? Completely different ball park for me.
		
Click to expand...

I'd sooner someone verbally abused me than waved their cock at me.
I'd probably laugh at both, however!


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 7, 2020)

Back to the England team I'd like to see this formation and people ATM 

-------------------pope 

TAA---Gomez--mings--chillwell 

------------rice--------henderson (c)

Sterling-------maddison--------grealish 

-------------kane (until he back Abraham's )


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 7, 2020)

Wolf said:



			You sure you think someone whipping their old chap out in a public place where hundreds (minimum) of minors are is not worthy of a lifetime ban.. Do that in a local park and the fella rightly gets put on a register. The punishment for his actions was spot on.

As for the racism absolutely agree the ban doesn't fit crime and should be a life ban. But no way does that mean the weirdo with his knob out got a bad deal.
		
Click to expand...

Not saying he doesn't deserve punishment. But to me, the guy whipping his todger out was quite amusing, whereas I have never found racial abuse particularly amusing. 

It _was_ only a penis though. He didn't rape anyone with it. Schoolkids see them in textbooks, and most likely, on the internet.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 7, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			It _was_ only a penis though. He didn't rape anyone with it. Schoolkids see them in textbooks, and most likely, on the internet.
		
Click to expand...

Go do it down the high street, or have someone do it to your wife/gf/mother.
I bet you change your tune then...


----------



## Wolf (Feb 7, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Not saying he doesn't deserve punishment. But to me, the guy whipping his todger out was quite amusing, whereas I have never found racial abuse particularly amusing.

It _was_ only a penis though. He didn't rape anyone with it. Schoolkids see them in textbooks, and most likely, on the internet.
		
Click to expand...

You may see it as funny, but in the eyes of the law it's illegal to expose yourself in that manner in a public place. Again you might find it funny and see it just as a penis but its offensive to many, hence the law and  a fact children see them in a text book is in no way way similar or defensible. To learn about anatomy in an educational, controlled way through a textbook is far removed from some dickhead exposing himself unnecessarily in public. To say he didn't rape anyone really is an uncalled for comment as well. 

You could argue the lad who made racist remarks didn't physically hurt anyone, not like he punch anyone just a few words. But fact is racism is wrong as is exposing yourself


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 7, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Go do it down the high street, or have someone do it to your wife/gf/mother.
I bet you change your tune then...
		
Click to expand...

You obviously don't know my wife or my mother... I think either of them would react the same way - laugh, tell them to F off and then get on with their day.



Wolf said:



			You may see it as funny, but in the eyes of the law it's illegal to expose yourself in that manner in a public place. Again you might find it funny and see it just as a penis but its offensive to many, hence the law and  a fact children see them in a text book is in no way way similar or defensible. To learn about anatomy in an educational, controlled way through a textbook is far removed from some dickhead exposing himself unnecessarily in public. To say he didn't rape anyone really is an uncalled for comment as well.

You could argue the lad who made racist remarks didn't physically hurt anyone, not like he punch anyone just a few words. But fact is racism is wrong as is exposing yourself
		
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, I do know what you mean - I'm just looking at it on a relative scale and considering the punishments they handed out it seems backwards to me. I'd have said 3 years ban for the penis, lifetime for racial abuse. But I suppose everyone is different in what they find offensive and what they don't.


----------



## Wolf (Feb 7, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			You obviously don't know my wife or my mother... I think either of them would react the same way - laugh, tell them to F off and then get on with their day.


Don't get me wrong, I do know what you mean - I'm just looking at it on a relative scale and considering the punishments they handed out it seems backwards to me. I'd have said 3 years ban for the penis, lifetime for racial abuse. But I suppose everyone is different in what they find offensive and what they don't.
		
Click to expand...

If you're looking at it on a relative scale then the bans should both be equal and both be life. Neither of those acts is acceptable anywhere. The guy who got 3 years for racial abuse got lucky because of his age. The guy who got his knob out got lucky he wasn't put on a register for indecent exposure in front on minors.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 7, 2020)

Alright, we'll agree to disagree and move on, lol.  At least we're agreed that the racial abuse lad was under-punished - just because he was a few months short of being 18 years old? 

As it turns out, Bournemouth themselves have banned him for life from their ground: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51405507   Fair play to them.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 8, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			In other news... that Newcastle fan who got his willy out when they scored has been banned for life, while a Bournemouth fan who shouted racist abuse has been banned for three years. Just goes to show you what type of men are running the FA. Surely those punishments are the wrong way round? How can you deem someone waving their willy as worse than racially abusing someone? Utterly wrong.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately it was a fake story and the Newcastle fan hasn’t been banned or even identified yet!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/51419080


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 8, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Back to the England team I'd like to see this formation and people ATM

-------------------pope

TAA---Gomez--mings--chillwell

------------rice--------henderson (c)

Sterling-------maddison--------grealish

-------------kane (until he back Abraham's )
		
Click to expand...

No place for England’s most in form forward? Sancho ahead of Sterling all day long.


----------



## fundy (Feb 8, 2020)

Anyone still picking Pickford prob best you dont watch todays highlights lol


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 8, 2020)

Tidy win for Everton despite a Jordan howler. Now only 1 point from 5th spot, that is madness. If he keeps up this form then Calvert-Lewin might find himself in the England squad this summer.

Interesting stat, only liverpool have won more points than Everton since Carlo took over. 

Off you go lads, have a nice few days in the sun.


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 8, 2020)

Watfords turn in form.... Pearson or deeney returning


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 8, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Tidy win for Everton despite a Jordan howler. Now only 1 point from 5th spot, that is madness. If he keeps up this form then Calvert-Lewin might find himself in the England squad this summer.

Interesting stat, only liverpool have won more points than Everton since Carlo took over.

Off you go lads, have a nice few days in the sun.
		
Click to expand...

I have said for a few weeks they look a different side under Ancelotti. Seems the gaffer has already bigged Calvert-Lewin's England credentials https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51179663


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 8, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Tidy win for Everton despite a Jordan howler. Now only 1 point from 5th spot, that is madness. If he keeps up this form then Calvert-Lewin might find himself in the England squad this summer.

Interesting stat, only liverpool have won more points than Everton since Carlo took over.

Off you go lads, have a nice few days in the sun.
		
Click to expand...

Everton nearly in 5th????

Maybe it is a weak league, then.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 8, 2020)

I wonder if Ancelotti can give Pickford a winter break that lasts until June!

Both sides of him on display today!


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I wonder if Ancelotti can give Pickford a winter break that lasts until June!

Both sides of him on display today!
		
Click to expand...

Just seen it, he struggled getting them big levers down quickly.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 8, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Just seen it, he struggled getting them big levers down quickly. 

Click to expand...

Got lucky with the save.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 9, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Just seen it, he struggled getting them big levers down quickly. 

Click to expand...

I think he needs to watch De Gea ,he would not try to get down to that but saved it with his foot.
Great save later on though.
What a finish by Bernard.


----------



## Piece (Feb 10, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Watfords turn in form.... Pearson or deeney returning
		
Click to expand...

Both. But we have regressed a bit recently as we keep giving leads away. When Sarr, Kiko and others are back and firing, we should have enough to stay up, but it is getting to squeaky bum time if we continue to squander leads.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 10, 2020)

Piece said:



			Both. But we have regressed a bit recently as we keep giving leads away. When Sarr, Kiko and others are back and firing, we should have enough to stay up, but it is getting to squeaky bum time if we continue to squander leads.
		
Click to expand...

You'll need to sort that out fairly quickly, I've just checked the end fixtures and you guys have City(H) and Arsenal(A) last two weeks. Ok Arsenal aren't exactly a force anymore, but still not ideal to face them away on the last day needing a result. You'll need to be somewhat safe with two games to go.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 10, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			You'll need to sort that out fairly quickly, I've just checked the end fixtures and you guys have City(H) and Arsenal(A) last two weeks. Ok Arsenal aren't *exactly* a force anymore, but still not ideal to face them away on the last day needing a result. You'll need to be somewhat safe with two games to go.
		
Click to expand...

I think you can remove exactly from that statement. Arsenal don't frighten anyone this season, they are the very definition of mid table mediocrity. If Watford are lucky then City will either be in the CL final and so not wanting a battle, or safely in 2nd place and nothing to play for. They could be two decent fixtures for them, you never know.

I think Watford have a steel about them now that should see them okay. It may be tight but I would be surprised if they dropped down.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 10, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think you can remove exactly from that statement. Arsenal don't frighten anyone this season, they are the very definition of mid table mediocrity. If Watford are lucky then City will either be in the CL final and so not wanting a battle, or safely in 2nd place and nothing to play for. They could be two decent fixtures for them, you never know.

I think Watford have a steel about them now that should see them okay. It may be tight but I would be surprised if they dropped down.
		
Click to expand...

There are still easier games than keeping Auba and Lacazette at bay.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 10, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			There are still easier games than keeping Auba and Lacazette at bay.
		
Click to expand...

Lacazette is having a stinking season though. He’s really fallen away.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 10, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			There are still easier games than keeping Auba and Lacazette at bay.
		
Click to expand...

Usually just Auba, Lacazette seems to warm the bench. If you only have to mark out one player that it is not too tough, I don't really see where there is another threat.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 10, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Lacazette is having a stinking season though. He’s really fallen away.
		
Click to expand...

Fair point, I hadn't really noticed. I don't really watch Arsenal games too often. Just catch the highlights of their hilarious defensive mishaps later on.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 10, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Fair point, I hadn't really noticed. I don't really watch Arsenal games too often. Just catch the highlights of their hilarious defensive mishaps later on.
		
Click to expand...

Come on, your a Spurs fan. You must be loving it, even if you are only marginally doing better this year. Saying that, I don't tend to watch Liverpool games so I get where you are coming from.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 10, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Come on, your a Spurs fan. You must be loving it, even if you are only marginally doing better this year. Saying that, I don't tend to watch Liverpool games so I get where you are coming from.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't really obsess over other teams. That was more of an Arsenal fan trait to be honest - celebrating finishing above us every year when their title ambitions used to die off at Christmas. But I prefer to look at my own team first and foremost. As we've already discussed at length in here, it's been a poor season all round.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 12, 2020)

Thoughts on this one,esp spurs fans.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51479810


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 12, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Thoughts on this one,esp spurs fans.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51479810

Click to expand...

An offensive term is just that, no matter who is using it.


----------



## fundy (Feb 12, 2020)

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...l-man-utd-barcelona-real-madrid-a9330431.html

Very interesting article, might ruffle a few feathers though


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 12, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			An offensive term is just that, no matter who is using it.
		
Click to expand...

I remember when we went to Amsterdam and it was pointed out that the Nazis used to put pink triangles on the LGBT people before they went to the extermination camps in the same way Jews had a yellow star. Since then the LGBT have turned the pink triangle badge upside down to use as a positive. To say we have nothing to be ashamed of. I get that.
But this, am not sure who at the Oxford dictionary thought this a good idea.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 12, 2020)

fundy said:



https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...l-man-utd-barcelona-real-madrid-a9330431.html

Very interesting article, might ruffle a few feathers though 

Click to expand...

It’s a good article but i don’t think there is anything of a surprise in it - it’s been growing that way since the Prem started and also the CL changing. 

I don’t see what can be done to stop the money juggernaut - ffp was obviously a dead duck


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 12, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I remember when we went to Amsterdam and it was pointed out that the Nazis used to put pink triangles on the LGBT people before they went to the extermination camps in the same way Jews had a yellow star. Since then the LGBT have turned the pink triangle badge upside down to use as a positive. To say we have nothing to be ashamed of. I get that.
But this, am not sure who at the Oxford dictionary thought this a good idea.
		
Click to expand...

The Oxford Dictionary tell us how words are used, not how we should use them.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 13, 2020)

Interesting given the speculation about Sancho leaving https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51471587


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 13, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Thoughts on this one,esp spurs fans.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51479810

Click to expand...

Just made me laugh to be honest. I think @Kellfire has it right, Spurs fans do get called 'yiddos' by themselves and by others, so makes sense to have it in the dictionary as a definition. To my mind that is actually the primary definition - if I someone said to me "I had to leave that pub, it was full of yids" I would assume he meant Spurs fans and not that he was simply being derogatory towards some Jewish people. But that's only from my personal experience, I don't know any Jewish people or live near any Jewish communities so I'm less likely to hear it in the derogatory way anyway.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Just made me laugh to be honest. I think @Kellfire has it right, Spurs fans do get called 'yiddos' by themselves and by others, so makes sense to have it in the dictionary as a definition. To my mind that is actually the primary definition - if I someone said to me "I had to leave that pub, it was full of yids" I would assume he meant Spurs fans and not that he was simply being derogatory towards some Jewish people. But that's only from my personal experience, I don't know any Jewish people or live near any Jewish communities so I'm less likely to hear it in the derogatory way anyway.
		
Click to expand...

Is it sometimes the way it is said as against the word itself. I say that as I had a gay pal who worked at the pit. He used to get some banter off the lads and he more than gave it back. But he said some of the lads had venom in there words and just hated him purely because he was gay. That aside some of the guys he mentioned were out and out ignorant knobs anyway.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Just made me laugh to be honest. I think @Kellfire has it right, Spurs fans do get called 'yiddos' by themselves and by others, so makes sense to have it in the dictionary as a definition. To my mind that is actually the primary definition - if I someone said to me "I had to leave that pub, it was full of yids" I would assume he meant Spurs fans and not that he was simply being derogatory towards some Jewish people. But that's only from my personal experience, I don't know any Jewish people or live near any Jewish communities so I'm less likely to hear it in the derogatory way anyway.
		
Click to expand...

I think Spurs fans live in a bubble regarding this. I don't think anyone outside of Spurs fans would hear that same comment and think the same thought. Saying that, I have genuinely never heard anti Jewish comments in day to day life but then I don't live near any pockets of Jewish communities.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 13, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think Spurs fans live in a bubble regarding this. I don't think anyone outside of Spurs fans would hear that same comment and think the same thought. Saying that, I have genuinely never heard anti Jewish comments in day to day life but then I don't live near any pockets of Jewish communities.
		
Click to expand...

There are definitely enough people who take 'yid' to mean 'Spurs fan' that it warrants an entry in the dictionary though, I would say. Since that is what we were discussing. And it's not just Spurs fans per se, it's all football fans.


----------



## Slime (Feb 13, 2020)

I don't take Yid to mean a Spurs fan, never have, never will.
Is Gooner in said dictionary?
A far more widely used reference to a particular teams' fan base.


----------



## Fish (Feb 13, 2020)

Slime said:



			I don't take Yid to mean a Spurs fan, never have, never will.
Is Gooner in said dictionary?
A far more widely used reference to a particular teams' fan base.
		
Click to expand...

But Gooner doesn’t have a double barreled meaning like yid does, so it’s not deemed to be derogatory like being called a yid currently does, just for being a spurs supporter and not for being Jewish. 

If yid or Yiddo gets put in the dictionary as a description towards being a spurs supporter, does that then remove the racist element of it which can currently get you removed from a ground and even arrested! Even though their own fans sing and chant it about themselves?


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 13, 2020)

Fish said:



			But Gooner doesn’t have a double barreled meaning like yid does, so it’s not deemed to be derogatory like being called a yid currently does, just for being a spurs supporter and not for being Jewish.

If yid or Yiddo gets put in the dictionary as a description towards being a spurs supporter, does that then remove the racist element of it which can currently get you removed from a ground and even arrested! Even though their own fans sing and chant it about themselves?
		
Click to expand...

No because there are plenty of insulting words in the dictionary.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 13, 2020)

Slime said:



			I don't take Yid to mean a Spurs fan, never have, never will.
Is Gooner in said dictionary?
A far more widely used reference to a particular teams' fan base.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah? https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780199916214.001.0001/acref-9780199916214-e-0919


----------



## Wolf (Feb 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah? https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780199916214.001.0001/acref-9780199916214-e-0919

Click to expand...

Hardly the same context as the term Yid is though.  I have to admit I find it quite sad that such a racial derogatory term is used by fans to name each other. It's also quite surprising how you say you view tue term considering how you were unhappy at the Bournemouth fan not getting a life ban for racist chanting, but will happily overlook your own fans using this term openly. Shows people are willing to over look things if it's for their own team.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 13, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Hardly the same context as the term Yid is though.  I have to admit I find it quite sad that such a racial derogatory term is used by fans to name each other. It's also quite surprising how you say you view tue term considering how you were unhappy at the Bournemouth fan not getting a life ban for racist chanting, but will happily overlook your own fans using this term openly. Shows people are willing to over look things if it's for their own team.
		
Click to expand...

Firstly, I just answered his question, I didn't say it was the same. Secondly, there's a thing called context. Just because I think someone calling me a yid because I support Spurs is fine, I don't also think calling a Jewish person a yid in anger is fine.

Before you say it, I concede that calling someone who is Jewish _and _a Spurs fan a yid is probably a grey area.


----------



## Fish (Feb 13, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			No because there are plenty of insulting words in the dictionary.
		
Click to expand...

yes there are, but that’s not what I wrote or asked, was it!

I stated, if yid or Yiddo is, or as I note now, has been added to the dictionary as a shared description towards being a spurs supporter would or should that remove the racist element at football matches.

If they (Spurs) are now deemed or believe they can now openly call themselves the yiddo army, or a yid (singular) as being a supporter of Spurs as it’s now shares that meaning in the dictionary, then surely opposing fans can describe them as that in the same vein without any repercussions.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 13, 2020)

Fish said:



			yes there are, but that’s not what I wrote or asked, was it!

I stated, if yid or Yiddo is, or as I note now, has been added to the dictionary as a shared description towards being a spurs supporter would or should that remove the racist element at football matches.

If they (Spurs) are now deemed or believe they can now openly call themselves the yiddo army, or a yid (singular) as being a supporter of Spurs as it’s now shares that meaning in the dictionary, then surely opposing fans can describe them as that in the same vein without any repercussions.
		
Click to expand...

No it doesn’t.


----------



## Fish (Feb 13, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			No it doesn’t.
		
Click to expand...

says who, you?

Surely that’s double standards, if they can call themselves a yid, then I should be able to label them the same, as it’s now on record in the dictionary as being a spurs supporter, unless it clearly states that its a derogatory term towards a spurs supporter but then that wouldn’t allow them to use it themselves.

They can’t have it both ways!


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 13, 2020)

Fish said:



			says who, you?

Surely that’s double standards, if they can call themselves a yid, then I should be able to label them the same, as it’s now on record in the dictionary as being a spurs supporter, unless it clearly states that its a derogatory term towards a spurs supporter but then that wouldn’t allow them to use it themselves.

They can’t have it both ways!
		
Click to expand...

I’m saying that no it doesn’t remove the racist element.  As I said earlier, it being in the dictionary doesn’t make it ok.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 13, 2020)

Go call a black person by the N word. See how far that gets you, even though it’s clearly fine for them to call themselves that word. 
The world is a complex place.


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 13, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Interesting given the speculation about Sancho leaving https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51471587

Click to expand...

He'll be gone 100%. Dortmund are a fun club that aren't about winning titles. Good football, loads of goals - ideal for young players and agents to park players to increase value before selling them on and earning a huge fortune for alll conerned. Sancho will join Man United for in excess of £100m. He's everything they need - a genuine right winger that can create and score. He ticks the young, English and huge potential plus resale value boxes too. He's got a bit of history with City so it'll provide some needle and a big statement from United. Can't see City buying him back and Liverpool I don't think can afford that when Salah is doing a fine job on the right.


----------



## Fish (Feb 13, 2020)

Good signing for me 👍💙

https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/2...hed-with-ajax-for-hakim-ziyech-?cardIndex=0-0


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 13, 2020)

Fish said:



			says who, you?

Surely that’s double standards, if they can call themselves a yid, then I should be able to label them the same, as it’s now on record in the dictionary as being a spurs supporter, unless it clearly states that its a derogatory term towards a spurs supporter but then that wouldn’t allow them to use it themselves.

They can’t have it both ways!
		
Click to expand...

quote from the film Coach Carter.

Worm: 'That's my nigga right there. If you was any bigga, you'd be my 'bigga nigga'.' 
Ken Carter: 'Sit down. SIT DOWN! Nigger is a degrogatory term used to insult our ancestors. See, if a white man used it, you'd be ready to fight. Your using it teaches him to use it. You're saying it's cool. Well, it's not cool, and when you're around me, I don't want to hear that shit! Are we clear?' - Found at: https://www.thyquotes.com/coach-carter/

which kinda sums it up for me and why I posted it up in the first place.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 13, 2020)

4LEX said:



			He'll be gone 100%. Dortmund are a fun club that aren't about winning titles. Good football, loads of goals - ideal for young players and agents to park players to increase value before selling them on and earning a huge fortune for alll conerned. Sancho will join Man United for in excess of £100m. He's everything they need - a genuine right winger that can create and score. He ticks the young, English and huge potential plus resale value boxes too. He's got a bit of history with City so it'll provide some needle and a big statement from United. Can't see City buying him back and Liverpool I don't think can afford that when Salah is doing a fine job on the right.
		
Click to expand...

City get 15% of any sell on fee which ( over 8.5 mill) on 100 million is about 13.8 million. I just read on a site. Also read that Egypt are looking to put Mo Salah in there Olympic football team which means he will miss the start of next season. Wonder what other players may be missing at the start of next season.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 13, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			City get 15% of any sell on fee which ( over 8.5 mill) on 100 million is about 13.8 million. I just read on a site. Also read that *Egypt are looking to put Mo Salah in there Olympic football team* which means he will miss the start of next season. Wonder what other players may be missing at the start of next season.
		
Click to expand...

Put him in? Salah IS the Egypt football team!


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 13, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			City get 15% of any sell on fee which ( over 8.5 mill) on 100 million is about 13.8 million. I just read on a site. Also read that Egypt are looking to put Mo Salah in there Olympic football team which means he will miss the start of next season. Wonder what other players may be missing at the start of next season.
		
Click to expand...

Wow surprised it was as low as 15%. But money for nothing and all that!

Good point on Liverpool missing players. Salah and Mane will be away for 3-4 weeks in January for the ACON too. I wonder if City would take him back for £100m minus the release clause given it looks like Sane is Bayern bound? Sterling and Sancho on the wings with KDB splitting defences would be a good way to bounce back from this season.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 13, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Wow surprised it was as low as 15%. But money for nothing and all that!

Good point on Liverpool missing players. Salah and Mane will be away for 3-4 weeks in January for the ACON too. I wonder if City would take him back for £100m minus the release clause given it looks like Sane is Bayern bound? Sterling and Sancho on the wings with KDB splitting defences would be a good way to bounce back from this season.
		
Click to expand...

Apparently Pep has made noises that he is not interested in him returning. Time will see. Furthermore I think the buy back clause that was not inserted is now something City are trying to negotiate on other Acadamy players should they leave. Would be gutted to see Sane go but, if a player does not want to play for your club as his head is elsewhere they need to go.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 13, 2020)

4LEX said:



			He'll be gone 100%. Dortmund are a fun club that aren't about winning titles. Good football, loads of goals - ideal for young players and agents to park players to increase value before selling them on and earning a huge fortune for alll conerned. Sancho will join Man United for in excess of £100m. He's everything they need - a genuine right winger that can create and score. He ticks the young, English and huge potential plus resale value boxes too. He's got a bit of history with City so it'll provide some needle and a big statement from United. Can't see City buying him back and Liverpool I don't think can afford that when Salah is doing a fine job on the right.
		
Click to expand...

Are you sure Manchester Utd will get Sancho?
According to the Hockey specialist Utd would struggle to get Corona virus without C/L and Ole as manager wouldn’t attract any world class players.
As Ole keeps saying Utd are the biggest club in the world.


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 13, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Apparently Pep has made noises that he is not interested in him returning. Time will see. Furthermore I think the buy back clause that was not inserted is now something City are trying to negotiate on other Acadamy players should they leave. Would be gutted to see Sane go but, if a player does not want to play for your club as his head is elsewhere they need to go.
		
Click to expand...

Theres a few question marks over Sancho's attitude. I don't think Pep would accept anyone turning up late on a regular basis


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 13, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Go call a black person by the N word. See how far that gets you, even though it’s clearly fine for them to call themselves that word.
The world is a complex place. 

Click to expand...

Yes I have never understood how they can call each other that ,then take offence if someone else uses it.
Does seem strange.


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 13, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Are you sure Manchester Utd will get Sancho?
According to the Hockey specialist Utd would struggle to get Corona virus without C/L and Ole as manager wouldn’t attract any world class players.
As Ole keeps saying Utd are the biggest club in the world.
		
Click to expand...

It's more a case who can afford the fee and the wages. I don't think PSG, Real or Juve need a winger. Barcelona perhaps but unlikely. Chelsea signing Ziyech seems to leaves Pulisic and him on the wings and the money will be spent the defence and a striker. 

There is no chance Ole will still be at United next season unless he's coaching the youth team


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 13, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Theres a few question marks over Sancho's attitude. I don't think Pep would accept anyone turning up late on a regular basis 

Click to expand...

Ottamendi hardly turns up at all.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 13, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Theres a few question marks over Sancho's attitude. I don't think Pep would accept anyone turning up late on a regular basis 

Click to expand...

I remember when he first left and his attitude was questioned. Just hope he dont turn Into another Sturridge goin from club to club


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 13, 2020)

Sancho will be an interesting saga in the summer 

A number of clubs will be after him and he will have a choice 

He plays very well with Hakimi who is going back to Madrid in the summer and they may have Sancho to replace Bale who will more than likely finally leave

Barcelona - can see a good fit there but they would need to lose someone like Dembele which potentially will happen 

Liverpool - think he would jump at the chance and expect we Best placed in the Prem to grab him - money and wages won’t be an issue and think he will learn a lot with Klopp and play a lot of games 

Chelsea - reported to be wanting to spend big in the summer but they are getting a winger already but with Willian and Pedro leaving they leaves then a space - don’t see it happening 

UTD - have the money and will be able to offer him a lot of wages but not the CL football but right now it’s a club that just isn’t set up to move forward - big issues and can him really develop there ? If Fergie was about no other club would matter he would be at Utd but I only see him there if they offer stupid money and he sees the dollar signs

Others like City and PSG I don’t think will be interested 

Madrid I think are favourites and then Liverpool to get him


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 13, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sancho will be an interesting saga in the summer

A number of clubs will be after him and he will have a choice

He plays very well with Hakimi who is going back to Madrid in the summer and they may have Sancho to replace Bale who will more than likely finally leave

Barcelona - can see a good fit there but they would need to lose someone like Dembele which potentially will happen

Liverpool - think he would jump at the chance and expect we Best placed in the Prem to grab him - money and wages won’t be an issue and think he will learn a lot with Klopp and play a lot of games

Chelsea - reported to be wanting to spend big in the summer but they are getting a winger already but with Willian and Pedro leaving they leaves then a space - don’t see it happening

UTD - have the money and will be able to offer him a lot of wages but not the CL football but right now it’s a club that just isn’t set up to move forward - big issues and can him really develop there ? If Fergie was about no other club would matter he would be at Utd but I only see him there if they offer stupid money and he sees the dollar signs

Others like City and PSG I don’t think will be interested

Madrid I think are favourites and then Liverpool to get him
		
Click to expand...

I think that’s pretty fair.
It sounds silly to say, but I’d say his best option would be Madrid. or at least it should be. He would get most game time there imo, but he’d have to hit the ground running.

For the money he’ll likely cost, I’m not convinced Liverpool will be in for him unless a slight change of style as he will want to be a  starter and i can’t see you dropping Salah, Mane or Firminhio  
 A move to prem is certainly best for his England career.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 13, 2020)

Really can't see him joining Liverpool as I would think his wage demands may be a stumbling block and wouldn't see Klopp or the board upsetting the apple cart by bringing someone in on inflated money. Real as a replacement for Bale would make sense but can't really see who else in the PL would be a good fit


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 13, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I think that’s pretty fair.
It sounds silly to say, but I’d say his best option would be Madrid. or at least it should be. He would get most game time there imo, but he’d have to hit the ground running.

For the money he’ll likely cost, I’m not convinced Liverpool will be in for him unless a slight change of style as he will want to be a  starter and i can’t see you dropping Salah, Mane or Firminhio 
A move to prem is certainly best for his England career.
		
Click to expand...

Money I don’t see being an issue for us - if it’s a player the manager wants they go for it , if the manager decides the demands are too much for the player then we walk away. He would be bought to add someone into that line to ensure that Mane and Salah aren’t played week in week out - he will get a lot of game time.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 13, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Money I don’t see being an issue for us - if it’s a player the manager wants they go for it , if the manager decides the demands are too much for the player then we walk away. He would be bought to add someone into that line to ensure that Mane and Salah aren’t played week in week out - he will get a lot of game time.
		
Click to expand...

I agree you'll pay the money if it makes sense. But imo he wouldn't start 30 plus unless one of the others leaves and I don't see you paying over 100m for someone to fit there. 

Happy to be proven wrong as I think he will improve with you.


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 13, 2020)

Man Utd pay Martial 220k a week and they paid Sanchez 350k....they'll pay 300k to get Sancho without a doubt. Real Madrid don't need a right winger and will sign Pogba as their star signing. 

Liverpool is the better move but that would mean a shift in a winning formation. I think Klopp would rather invest in the midfield with a decent winger in addition, rather a £100m superstar buy.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Feb 13, 2020)

For all those thinking that Liverpool aren't getting all the VAR decisions going their way this year, I saw this on Facebook....




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=536968456913197


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 13, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			For all those thinking that Liverpool aren't getting all the VAR decisions going their way this year, I saw this on Facebook.....




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=536968456913197



Click to expand...

Quality.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 13, 2020)

Don't see Sancho playing for the Reds next season, but Timo Werner I do


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 13, 2020)

Fish said:



			says who, you?

Surely that’s double standards, if they can call themselves a yid, then I should be able to label them the same, as it’s now on record in the dictionary as being a spurs supporter, unless it clearly states that its a derogatory term towards a spurs supporter but then that wouldn’t allow them to use it themselves.

They can’t have it both ways!
		
Click to expand...

It may also give the courts a double meaning to "throwing the book at you"


----------



## Slime (Feb 14, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Are you sure Manchester Utd will get Sancho?
According to the Hockey specialist Utd would struggle to get Corona virus without C/L and* Ole as manager wouldn’t attract any world class players.*
As Ole keeps saying Utd are the biggest club in the world.
		
Click to expand...

Bruno Fernandes.


----------



## Slime (Feb 14, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sancho will be an interesting saga in the summer


UTD - have the money and will be able to offer him a lot of wages *but not the CL football* but right now it’s a club that just isn’t set up to move forward - big issues and can him really develop there ? If Fergie was about no other club would matter he would be at Utd but I only see him there if they offer stupid money and he sees the dollar signs

Others like City and PSG I don’t think will be interested

Madrid I think are favourites and then Liverpool to get him
		
Click to expand...

You don't know that .................................. yet.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2020)

Slime said:



			Bruno Fernandes.
		
Click to expand...

world Class ? Really ? Surely he will need to prove that on the big stage before being deemed world class ?


----------



## fundy (Feb 14, 2020)

City banned from CL for 2 years and fined 30m


----------



## ger147 (Feb 14, 2020)

fundy said:



			City banned from CL for 2 years and fined 30m 

Click to expand...

Oh dear...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2020)

Well looks like UEFA FFP rules does have some teeth afterall.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 14, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 29181


Well looks like UEFA FFP rules does have some teeth afterall.
		
Click to expand...

Bye Bye Pep if it’s upheld imo. 
Find it strange that it’s. 2 year ban for what appears to be 4 years of violations. Looking forward to Barca’s and Madrid’s band for historical manipulation too....


----------



## ger147 (Feb 14, 2020)

Man C will be appealing to CAS, not sure what the timescales are for the ruling from CAS.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Bye Bye Pep if it’s upheld imo.
Find it strange that it’s. 2 year ban for what appears to be 4 years of violations. Looking forward to Barca’s and Madrid’s band for historical manipulation too....
		
Click to expand...

yep Pep will be gone and I have no doubt that UEFA will ensure it’s one of those decisions that make it hard to appeal 

I guess Madrid and Barcelona won’t be able to sell their training ground back to the council


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 14, 2020)

So does 5th place qualify for the CL?


----------



## Wolf (Feb 14, 2020)

No doubt City will appeal the decision but will certainly make it an interesting couple of years for signing players etc when theres no chance of playing in the biggest competitions. Does this open up the CL spot to someone else? 

Could also see some big players wanting to leave.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 14, 2020)

fundy said:



			City banned from CL for 2 years and fined 30m 

Click to expand...

deservedly so 🤔😳😖


----------



## fundy (Feb 14, 2020)

Wolf said:



			No doubt City will appeal the decision but will certainly make it an interesting couple of years for signing players etc when theres no chance of playing in the biggest competitions. Does this open up the CL spot to someone else? 

Could also see some big players wanting to leave.
		
Click to expand...

gonna be one very large brown envelope on its way to Uefa


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 14, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			yep Pep will be gone and I have no doubt that UEFA will ensure it’s one of those decisions that make it hard to appeal

I guess Madrid and Barcelona won’t be able to sell their training ground back to the council
		
Click to expand...

Only option is court of arbitration. theyve been quite clever in not releasing full details of rules they’ve broken so as to make appeal difficult. 

Now we just need Sheffield Utd to finish 5th!


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 14, 2020)

Wolf said:



			No doubt City will appeal the decision but will certainly make it an interesting couple of years for signing players etc when theres no chance of playing in the biggest competitions. Does this open up the CL spot to someone else?

Could also see some big players wanting to leave.
		
Click to expand...

nows the time to lump on em for a couple of league titles.


----------



## Fish (Feb 14, 2020)

I’m pretty confident Pep was history anyway, but that said, why would he be sacked for this, it’s not his money, he can ask for whatever he wants, it’s the board that decides what they spend and how they account for it, unless you’re all inferring that he won’t want to stay without CL. 

Will there be an exodus of players wanting away also, and will players planned on coming now think twice with no CL on the table🤔


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			nows the time to lump on em for a couple of league titles.
		
Click to expand...

Without CL football then they lose a lot of money , prob also players , manager , sponsers - ultimately could end up with the owner selling up as well - could see them go back to where they were before the Sheik arrived. It’s a huge for them premier League


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 14, 2020)

Fish said:



			I’m pretty confident Pep was history anyway, but that said, why would he be sacked for this, it’s not his money, he can ask for whatever he wants, it’s the board that decides what they spend and how they account for it, unless you’re all inferring that he won’t want to stay without CL.

Will there be an exodus of players wanting away also, and will players planned on coming now think twice with no CL on the table🤔
		
Click to expand...

i don’t think anyone is saying he’ll be sacked. It’s more that he will want to leave. The CL is what he wants to win. PSG or Juve to continue his “legacy“ of collected easy trophies.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 14, 2020)

fundy said:



			gonna be one very large brown envelope on its way to Uefa 

Click to expand...

bank transfer to the  Caymans 😉👍


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 14, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Without CL football then they lose a lot of money , prob also players , manager , sponsers - ultimately could end up with the owner selling up as well - could see them go back to where they were before the Sheik arrived. It’s a huge for them premier League
		
Click to expand...

Think that’s a tad optimistic tbh.
its 2 seasons, the might need to sign a few more youngsters who don’t *need *cl footy. But they’ll be back in two years. Obv some may want to leave, but their stars would still cost 100m plus giving them plenty to sign promising players.


----------



## Fish (Feb 14, 2020)

So with fans now saving on CL tickets at home & away games, will the home gates fill up a few more of the empty seats 😜


----------



## fundy (Feb 14, 2020)

“Manchester City is disappointed but not surprised by today’s announcement by the UEFA Adjudicatory Chamber,” their statement said.

“The club has always anticipated the ultimate need to seek out an independent body and process to impartially consider the comprehensive body of irrefutable evidence in support of its position.

“In December 2018, the UEFA Chief Investigator publicly previewed the outcome and sanction he intended to be delivered to Manchester City, before any investigation had even begun. The subsequent flawed and consistently leaked UEFA process he oversaw has meant that there was little doubt in the result that he would deliver.

“The club has formally complained to the UEFA Disciplinary body, a complaint which was validated by a CAS ruling.

“Simply put, this is a case initiated by UEFA, prosecuted by UEFA and judged by UEFA. With this prejudicial process now over, the club will pursue an impartial judgment as quickly as possible and will therefore, in the first instance, commence proceedings with the Court of Arbitration for Sport at the earliest opportunity.”


----------



## Fish (Feb 14, 2020)

fundy said:



			“Manchester City is disappointed but not surprised by today’s announcement by the UEFA Adjudicatory Chamber,” their statement said.

“The club has always anticipated the ultimate need to seek out an independent body and process to impartially consider the comprehensive body of irrefutable evidence in support of its position.

“In December 2018, the UEFA Chief Investigator publicly previewed the outcome and sanction he intended to be delivered to Manchester City, before any investigation had even begun. The subsequent flawed and consistently leaked UEFA process he oversaw has meant that there was little doubt in the result that he would deliver.

“The club has formally complained to the UEFA Disciplinary body, a complaint which was validated by a CAS ruling.

“Simply put, this is a case initiated by UEFA, prosecuted by UEFA and judged by UEFA. With this prejudicial process now over, the club will pursue an impartial judgment as quickly as possible and will therefore, in the first instance, commence proceedings with the Court of Arbitration for Sport at the earliest opportunity.”
		
Click to expand...

But in the meantime, still be banned?


----------



## pendodave (Feb 14, 2020)

Presumably, they've given two in anticipation that it will be reduced to one under some sort of bargaining arrangement


----------



## IainP (Feb 14, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Think that’s a tad optimistic tbh.
its 2 seasons, the might need to sign a few more youngsters who don’t *need *cl footy. But they’ll be back in two years. Obv some may want to leave, but their stars would still cost 100m plus giving them plenty to sign promising players.
		
Click to expand...

Was going to say, did you mean pessimistic?
Then remembered it is the footy thread! 🤣😂👍


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 14, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Without CL football then they lose a lot of money , prob also players , manager , sponsers - ultimately could end up with the owner selling up as well - could see them go back to where they were before the Sheik arrived. It’s a huge for them premier League
		
Click to expand...

So the owners are just going to pack up & forget about the hundreds of millions they’ve invested because of a 2yr ban from Europe? 😂😂😂

Yeah they’ll be playing League one football in a few seasons 😂😂
Think you might be going a tad OTT here Phil 🙈


----------



## fundy (Feb 14, 2020)

Fish said:



			But in the meantime, still be banned?
		
Click to expand...

depends if CAS will adjudicate before August I guess


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 14, 2020)

Fish said:



			So with fans now saving on CL tickets at home & away games, will the home gates fill up a few more of the empty seats 😜
		
Click to expand...

Could do with a natter with the arsenal and Utd  fans to see how to cope in the wilderness. 😁


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Think that’s a tad optimistic tbh.
its 2 seasons, the might need to sign a few more youngsters who don’t *need *cl footy. But they’ll be back in two years. Obv some may want to leave, but their stars would still cost 100m plus giving them plenty to sign promising players.
		
Click to expand...

Im not so sure tbh - Obviously with more crackdowns on spending then it wouldn’t surprise me to see them being sold - on a world wide level they don’t appear to anywhere near have the same appeal as the historic European giants and are they a club that can be self sufficient?  

And will premier league look at their fundings?


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 14, 2020)

If they’ve broken UEFA FFP rules then wouldn’t the PL have to punish them aswell for breaking PL FFP rules?


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			If they’ve broken UEFA FFP rules then wouldn’t the PL have to punish them aswell for breaking PL FFP rules?
		
Click to expand...

Do they have same criteria?



Liverpoolphil said:



			Im not so sure tbh - Obviously with more crackdowns on spending then it wouldn’t surprise me to see them being sold - on a world wide level they don’t appear to anywhere near have the same appeal as the historic European giants and are they a club that can be self sufficient?

And will premier league look at their fundings?
		
Click to expand...

how much is two years of CL worth? Clubs are allowed a percentage of external investment aren’t they. It’s the massive amounts they had previously that caused it.
Some of their biggest investors are basically the owners companies. They won’t have a non cl qualification punishment I imagine. So that’ll help.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Do they have same criteria?



how much is two years of CL worth? Clubs are allowed a percentage of external investment aren’t they. It’s the massive amounts they had previously that caused it.
Some of their biggest investors are basically the owners companies. They won’t have a non cl qualification punishment I imagine. So that’ll help.
		
Click to expand...

Each season going into the group stage they believe is worth £50 mil - then up  £100mil in KO 

And it’s the “external investors” that are causing the issue I believe


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 14, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Each season going into the group stage they believe is worth £50 mil - then up  £100mil in KO

And it’s the “external investors” that are causing the issue I believe
		
Click to expand...

It was investors from 2012 - 16. They've been punished for though, so if they have good deals sorted now then it'll matter less.

 Imo if they keep the current squad it's still gonna walk top 4 in two years.so could swallow a 200m hit. 

It's obv not ideal for them or the league as it certainly would weaken the competitiveness at the top. But I think it's too earoy to expect em to lose owners etc.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 14, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			deservedly so 🤔😳😖
		
Click to expand...

Yes they do deserve it .
But it’s a bit suspicious that no other club has ever broke these rules.?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 14, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes they do deserve it .
But it’s a bit suspicious that no other club has ever broke these rules.?
		
Click to expand...

PSG, Real, Barcelona, Juventus immediately spring to mind 🤔


----------



## Reemul (Feb 14, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes they do deserve it .
But it’s a bit suspicious that no other club has ever broke these rules.?
		
Click to expand...

They all break the rules, fans that dont like the relevant teams are happy and also think their team would never do it when they are all at it


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			PSG, Real, Barcelona, Juventus immediately spring to mind 🤔
		
Click to expand...

Still waiting for the verdict on PSG arent they ? Wouldn’t surprise me to see it being the same. 

Obviously juve were relegated for their punishment 

It’s Barce and Real that will continue to get away with it


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 14, 2020)

Bob Paisley, ex Durham Pitman and Liverpool manager visiting Hetton Le Hole in 1977.

That was on a pits and collieries site am on.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 14, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes they do deserve it .
But it’s a bit suspicious that no other club has ever broke these rules.?
		
Click to expand...

Having a read on some of the City sites. Loads to quote but a couple that made me chuckle.

The sanctions that have been applied to City were from a committee set up by Michael Platini to stop corruption. What happened to Platini.
The charges come from when der Spiegel printed “ illegally hacked”  information from City. 

Think it’s fair to say that City for loads of reasons ( some of which are rammel) don’t love or like the Champs league in the same way that Utd and Liverpool do. In all honesty Ave done a couple of champs league nights and they have been either fantastic or had the same atmosphere as a midweek league cup game. 
quite looking forward to seeing how this one pans out.


----------



## dronfield (Feb 14, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			So does 5th place qualify for the CL?
		
Click to expand...

If so, we might have to put a couple of extra tiers on the stands at Bramall Lane this summer!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 14, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Having a read on some of the City sites. Loads to quote but a couple that made me chuckle.

The sanctions that have been applied to City were from a committee set up by Michael Platini to stop corruption. What happened to Platini.
The charges come from when der Spiegel printed “ illegally hacked”  information from City.

Think it’s fair to say that City for loads of reasons ( some of which are rammel) don’t love or like the Champs league in the same way that Utd and Liverpool do. In all honesty Ave done a couple of champs league nights and they have been either fantastic or had the same atmosphere as a midweek league cup game.
quite looking forward to seeing how this one pans out.
		
Click to expand...

Not really bothered by who did what .
But it’s not good when it’s overlooked at some clubs but not others.
It’s Laughable that this can happen in plain sight.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2020)

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...e-premier-points-uefa-fair-play-a9336946.html

Seems that Prem Lge have the same level of rules so they will also have to act now as well


----------



## fundy (Feb 14, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...e-premier-points-uefa-fair-play-a9336946.html

Seems that Prem Lge have the same level of rules so they will also have to act now as well
		
Click to expand...


that assumes they interpret it the same, cant see them doing a thing until the appeal has been heard, if at all


----------



## PieMan (Feb 14, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			i don’t think anyone is saying he’ll be sacked. It’s more that he will want to leave. The CL is what he wants to win. PSG or Juve to continue his “legacy“ of collected easy trophies.
		
Click to expand...

Will surely be PSG seeing as Inter are challenging Juve; and even Bayern have serious challengers in Germany!! 😂


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 14, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...e-premier-points-uefa-fair-play-a9336946.html

Seems that Prem Lge have the same level of rules so they will also have to act now as well
		
Click to expand...

It's a points dedication in the league isn't it? Unless it's best part of 40 points which it won't be, then what difference will it make when their league position can't earn the CL footy.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			It's a points dedication in the league isn't it? Unless it's best part of 40 points which it won't be, then what difference will it make when their league position can't earn the CL footy.
		
Click to expand...

Guess depends on if they look at a punishement for each year - Rugby bosses were praised for the way they dealt with Saracens - maybe now Football bosses are catching up ?


----------



## fundy (Feb 14, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Guess depends on if they look at a punishement for each year - Rugby bosses were praised for the way they dealt with Saracens - maybe now Football bosses are catching up ?
		
Click to expand...


thats one perspective, plenty of other opinions on how they (mis)handled the issue too


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 14, 2020)

It will go through the CAS and I imagine the sanction will sit for the start of next season but I imagine there is still going to be arguments and issues around this and I am really hope Barca and Real finally get called to account along with PSG. 
loo
On the plus side, a season without any distractions could be a real benefit and City can focus purely and simply on the PL and really look to take the title back off Liverpool. I think this has a long way to run


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 14, 2020)

This investigation has taken 3yrs, I’m pretty certain UEFA will have ticked every box to make sure this is bullet proof.I will be very surprised if this ban gets overturned.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 14, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



*Do they have same criteria?*



how much is two years of CL worth? Clubs are allowed a percentage of external investment aren’t they. It’s the massive amounts they had previously that caused it.
Some of their biggest investors are basically the owners companies. They won’t have a non cl qualification punishment I imagine. So that’ll help.
		
Click to expand...

I’d expect so, though looking at the way VAR is being used I wouldn’t hold my breath!!


----------



## Bazzatron (Feb 14, 2020)

Never knew you could be offside from a corner, glad VAR has been brought in to show us that.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 15, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Never knew you could be offside from a corner, glad VAR has been brought in to show us that.
		
Click to expand...

Only saw it briefly, was it not a short corner and the offside came from that? You can't be offside directly from a corner.


----------



## Bazzatron (Feb 15, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Only saw it briefly, was it not a short corner and the offside came from that? You can't be offside directly from a corner.
		
Click to expand...

I saw it there and then again when I got home, I'm still baffled by it.


----------



## Bazzatron (Feb 15, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Only saw it briefly, was it not a short corner and the offside came from that? You can't be offside directly from a corner.
		
Click to expand...

I've watched it again and it was directly from the corner.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 15, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			I saw it there and then again when I got home, I'm still baffled by it.
		
Click to expand...

I've seen the pictures and lines this morning and it's another nonsense one. It's yet another decision that brings VAR into disrepute. 

When we know that 5th place could now give a CL place decisions like that have huge consequences.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 15, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			I've watched it again and it was directly from the corner.
		
Click to expand...

I'm only going off what is shown on the web this morning. If you Google it all the pictures and lines being shown are 1m-2m from the goal line. That wouldn't be the case if it was direct from the corner. Saying all that, I didn't watch it last night, haven't heard explanations so I could well be wrong.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Feb 15, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			I've watched it again and it was directly from the corner.
		
Click to expand...

If I've got it right (and bearing in mind the sources of the information are Robbie savage & Peter Walton, so it's a stretch ) the corner taker was in an offside position when he took it, relative to the other players on the pitch (I know, it doesn't matter at this point, stay with me ).  He takes the corner short and moves away from the goal line down the wing channel, back towards an onside position.  The player he played the corner to  (who can't be offside direct from the corner ) plays a return pass to the corner taker who is returning to an onside position.  However, at the point the ball was played, one of the boots of the corner taker (yes, really ) was still offside, as proved by the VAR slide rule, hence at the point that ball was played the corner taker, not the corner receiver, was offside.   It had absolutely no influence on the goal whatsoever. 

For the avoidance of doubt, this is not a defence of the crock of  that VAR has proved to be, merely an explanation of the offence as I understand it.  I was in favour of it as I hoped that it would be a step towards driving the diving cheats out of the game.  Instead, Deulofeu, Son & others continue to ply their odious trade whilst VAR mercilessly hunts down stray toenails that are millimetres offside, ruining the enjoyment of fans everywhere.  It is nothing less than an absolute farce and it needs sorting.

In defence of Robbie Savage (yes, you did read that correctly ), he was slating VAR as far as the neutrality of his position as a pundit allows.  

In defence of Peter Walton...  nah, there is no defence for that muppet.


----------



## Bazzatron (Feb 15, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			If I've got it right (and bearing in mind the sources of the information are Robbie savage & Peter Walton, so it's a stretch ) the corner taker was in an offside position when he took it, relative to the other players on the pitch (I know, it doesn't matter at this point, stay with me ).  He takes the corner short and moves away from the goal line down the wing channel, back towards an onside position.  The player he played the corner to  (who can't be offside direct from the corner ) plays a return pass to the corner taker who is returning to an onside position.  However, at the point the ball was played, one of the boots of the corner taker (yes, really ) was still offside, as proved by the VAR slide rule, hence at the point that ball was played the corner taker, not the corner receiver, was offside.   It had absolutely no influence on the goal whatsoever. 

For the avoidance of doubt, this is not a defence of the crock of  that VAR has proved to be, merely an explanation of the offence as I understand it.  I was in favour of it as I hoped that it would be a step towards driving the diving cheats out of the game.  Instead, Deulofeu, Son & others continue to ply their odious trade whilst VAR mercilessly hunts down stray toenails that are millimetres offside, ruining the enjoyment of fans everywhere.  It is nothing less than an absolute farce and it needs sorting.

In defence of Robbie Savage (yes, you did read that correctly ), he was slating VAR as far as the neutrality of his position as a pundit allows. 

In defence of Peter Walton...  nah, there is no defence for that muppet. 

Click to expand...

Clear and obvious then 😄


----------



## Blue in Munich (Feb 15, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Clear and obvious then 😄
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely, really can't see why you've got a problem with it...


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 15, 2020)

If i’ve got it right, the corner wasn’t offside. It was when the ball was played back to the player who took the corner he was judged to be in an offside position.

It was a farcical decision regardless.

Apologies BIM I’ve only just read your post. Spot on again


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 15, 2020)

Just seen it on the news and Var was correct.
Short corner and taker was offside when ball was played back to him.
Big toe maybe , really poor but the way Var has been used this year it wasn’t as close as others I have seen.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 15, 2020)

Don’t see how anyone can argue this one. His foot is offside so it’s offside!


----------



## Piece (Feb 15, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Don’t see how anyone can argue this one. His foot is offside so it’s offside!
		
Click to expand...

And I agree. VAR is only implementing a black and white law not deciding on a human interpretation. Offside is offside. Having a daylight rule or 10cm will be even worse. Yesterday was a poor decision if you are Wolves, but the correct decision if you are Leicester. I’ve said before and will say it again, part of VAR‘s issues is to do with some fans not understanding football.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 15, 2020)

Anyone watching the refs performance in the WBA and Forest game.


----------



## Piece (Feb 15, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Anyone watching the refs performance in the WBA and Forest game.
		
Click to expand...

Yup....he needs VAR 🥺🤪🤣


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 15, 2020)

Another penalty not given. What’s that linesman looking at on that side.


----------



## fundy (Feb 15, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Anyone watching the refs performance in the WBA and Forest game.
		
Click to expand...

utter horror show, Forest manager could explode at the fT whistle


----------



## fundy (Feb 15, 2020)

Tweet from Forest 

Nottingham Forest FC
@NFFC
74' WBA 2-1 #NFFC: Keith Stroud is furious as he's forced to give a yellow card to Matt Phillips for a late challenge on Yuri Ribeiro


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 15, 2020)

David is a Forest fan - not happy! Shocking decisions all seeming to go against Forest. WBA should have been down to 10 in the 1st half...

He's happier!!


----------



## Piece (Feb 15, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			David is a Forest fan - not happy! Shocking decisions all seeming to go against Forest. WBA should have been down to 10 in the 1st half...

He's happier!!
		
Click to expand...

Some strike that


----------



## Piece (Feb 15, 2020)

VAR!


----------



## Piece (Feb 15, 2020)

That’s a goal, even though the WBA player saved it...behind the line....being flagged offside! 😆

edit..mind changed, no goal


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 15, 2020)

Thoughts on that disallowed goal 🤔


----------



## fundy (Feb 15, 2020)

got a decision go there way last kick of the game there, WBA gonna feel hard done by now


----------



## fundy (Feb 15, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Thoughts on that disallowed goal 🤔
		
Click to expand...

perfectly good goal


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2020)

fundy said:



			perfectly good goal
		
Click to expand...

Which match is this ? The Forest one ? Did the ball even cross the line ( ref didn’t seem to go to his wrist ) ? And the player looked offside ?

Edit - seen the replay - very tough decision to make but I think it was just about right to disallow the goal


----------



## Piece (Feb 15, 2020)

Now with super slow mo, I think offside is the right call, as the ball struck he was on the line offside.


----------



## davemc1 (Feb 15, 2020)

He had to be interfering with the defender on the line. No goal for me


----------



## fundy (Feb 15, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Which match is this ? The Forest one ? Did the ball even cross the line ( ref didn’t seem to go to his wrist ) ? And the player looked offside ?

Edit - seen the replay - very tough decision to make but I think it was just about right to disallow the goal
		
Click to expand...

ball crossed the line and in the modern game player wouldnbt be adjudged to be interfering (ludicrous if you ask me, how cant he be)


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 15, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Anyone watching the refs performance in the WBA and Forest game.
		
Click to expand...

Probably one of the worst referees and linesman’s performance I’ve seen for a while.
Fantastic game though.
Livermore defo a red for me.
Goal at the end for me,both on the floor from a previous challenge and the ball over the line.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2020)

fundy said:



			ball crossed the line and in the modern game player wouldnbt be adjudged to be interfering (ludicrous if you ask me, how cant he be)
		
Click to expand...

The lack of red card for Livermore was prob the worst call of the match , the foul of Ameobi clear as day as well. Not a great day from the ref


----------



## fundy (Feb 15, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The lack of red card for Livermore was prob the worst call of the match , the foul of Ameobi clear as day as well. Not a great day from the ref
		
Click to expand...

Livermore be lucky if that isnt revisited after the match! missed clear pen for Forest for handball too


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2020)

fundy said:



			Livermore be lucky if that isnt revisited after the match! missed clear pen for Forest for handball too
		
Click to expand...

Sorry yes the handball as well - apparently the ref noticed the Livermore incident so can’t be revisited ?


----------



## fundy (Feb 15, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry yes the handball as well - apparently the ref noticed the Livermore incident so can’t be revisited ?
		
Click to expand...


he didnt see it very clearly, there again he didnt see much very clearly all game lol


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 15, 2020)

fundy said:



			“Manchester City is disappointed but not surprised by today’s announcement by the UEFA Adjudicatory Chamber,” their statement said.

“The club has always anticipated the ultimate need to seek out an independent body and process to impartially consider the comprehensive body of irrefutable evidence in support of its position.

“In December 2018, the UEFA Chief Investigator publicly previewed the outcome and sanction he intended to be delivered to Manchester City, before any investigation had even begun. The subsequent flawed and consistently leaked UEFA process he oversaw has meant that there was little doubt in the result that he would deliver.

“The club has formally complained to the UEFA Disciplinary body, a complaint which was validated by a CAS ruling.

“Simply put, this is a case initiated by UEFA, prosecuted by UEFA and judged by UEFA. With this prejudicial process now over, the club will pursue an impartial judgment as quickly as possible and will therefore, in the first instance, commence proceedings with the Court of Arbitration for Sport at the earliest opportunity.”
		
Click to expand...

Oh dear. Arrogant and in denial.

Football has always self regulated and acted in the same manner. Imagine if every decision made by UEFA or each individual league was externally handled by the courts.... 

City have done a lot good for football especially in Manchester and have spent the money well. However theres no doubt large amounts of it were gained direct from the owners and various scams were used to cheat FFP with regard to extortionate sponsorship deals way above market value.

City have to tow this line and take whatever punishment they get with bad grace. I suspect it'll be a one season ban with an increased fine.

Hopefully PSG are next.


----------



## Reemul (Feb 15, 2020)

My issue with VAR and offside is a simple one. The player has to be able to look along the line and see he is on or offside. Any attacker looking along the line and trying to gauge if he is on or off is not possible if the refereee cannot do it without lines and graphics, now if players have heads up displays showing the relevant information I would have no issues but how the hell a player looks over and sees a defender 20 m away and can tell half his boot is off is not possible but the measure to this is a computer with tech to confirm that is not how it should be.

The player is using his eyes, the referee and lines use their eyes and the final decision is made by computers with multiple angles and lines and mostly they are still not 100% sure. Anyone saying well he is off so it's off is really missing the point, who the hell knows without a bloody computer.


----------



## Reemul (Feb 15, 2020)

I am not defending Man City but FFP does stink and is aimed at keeping those at the top there and restricting those wishing to join it by limiting spending.

I do not understand how the Glazers can borrow £500 million against Man Utd to buy them (leveraged buyout) and this is all good and well but the richest Person in the world cannot spend a tiny amount of his money on his club to catch up those at the top.

FFP means it is now all but impossible for really rich people or companies to come in a spend lots of money on a club over a period of time. THis suppossed to protect clubs from dodgy owner coming in a spending money they do not have but as lower league teams are showing the shisters come in, remove the money and screw the clubs over, think Bury, Leyton Orient etc.

FFP and fit to own a club do not work. It's a monopoly for the top clubs in Europe and no way to join them and very little protection for those at the bottom. I mean the big clubs already have the biggest incomes and the biggest fan base and the most income so continue to spend more, those that don't regardless of how much stuff they win just cannot grow to the size of the top clubs which have grown over many years and also cannot spend as much. It must be like playing with one leg tied behind your back


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 15, 2020)

Reemul said:



			I am not defending Man City but FFP does stink and is aimed at keeping those at the top there and restricting those wishing to join it by limiting spending.

I do not understand how the Glazers can borrow £500 million against Man Utd to buy them (leveraged buyout) and this is all good and well but the richest Person in the world cannot spend a tiny amount of his money on his club to catch up those at the top.

FFP means it is now all but impossible for really rich people or companies to come in a spend lots of money on a club over a period of time. THis suppossed to protect clubs from dodgy owner coming in a spending money they do not have but as lower league teams are showing the shisters come in, remove the money and screw the clubs over, think Bury, Leyton Orient etc.

FFP and fit to own a club do not work. It's a monopoly for the top clubs in Europe and no way to join them and very little protection for those at the bottom. I mean the big clubs already have the biggest incomes and the biggest fan base and the most income so continue to spend more, those that don't regardless of how much stuff they win just cannot grow to the size of the top clubs which have grown over many years and also cannot spend as much. It must be like playing with one leg tied behind your back
		
Click to expand...

To simplify things.
Man Utds owners take money out of football.
Man City’s owners put money into football.

There is a lot about football at the moment that is wrong. You can if found guilty (after appeal) put Man City in with that.  But re City. At the moment they are found guilty of rules that were put in place to protect the top table.  chuck in Var, agents fees, World Cups in Middle East no doubt paid for, corruption in FIFA and UEFA. Yup the beautiful game is in a bad place at the moment.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 15, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			To simplify things.
Man Utds owners take money out of football.
Man City’s owners put money into football.

There is a lot about football at the moment that is wrong. You can if found guilty (after appeal) put Man City in with that.  But re City. At the moment they are found guilty of rules that were put in place to protect the top table.  chuck in Var, agents fees, World Cups in Middle East no doubt paid for, corruption in FIFA and UEFA. Yup the beautiful game is in a bad place at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

It’s not all bad .
If KDB fancies CL footy next year Liverpool might have him.
He’s the only one though, we’re not a charity.


----------



## Dando (Feb 15, 2020)

I see the Norwich defenders spent some time training with the WWE!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2020)

Stunning goal - world class player , that touch then turn was just outstanding


----------



## davemc1 (Feb 15, 2020)

Jesus after that, we’ve prob got the Everton spot on motd... 🤦‍♂️😭😆


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 15, 2020)

Good win .
But it’s hard to play in that wind.
Norwich played well in first half ,some good runs from the strikers but the balls never got played to them.
Mane finish was brilliant ,in a game of very few chances that’s what you need.


----------



## Piece (Feb 15, 2020)

25 pts clear. 😱


----------



## fundy (Feb 15, 2020)

Have to love the sky hyperbole, they confidently announced before the game that runaway leaders and champs elect Liverpool (24 wins from 25 games) would have to be at their very best to beat bottom of the table Norwich (4 wins from 25 games).

Was funny watching Carragher lauding the worlds best team, the worlds best keeper, the worlds best defender etc etc get less biased the longer it remained 0-0 against the leagues relegation favs. Pretty much as bad as ive seen Liverpool play this season in the league, a touch of class from Mane the difference. so much for needing to be at their very best eh!!!


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 15, 2020)

The Klopp Express rolls on.....

I thought we were very slow passing and in possession with the ball.

Norwich with their 10men behind the ball were very well organised and compact in the middle of the park.


15pts to go to Operation Unbearable.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 15, 2020)

Dando said:



			I see the Norwich defenders spent some time training with the WWE!
		
Click to expand...

Where’s VAR when you need it.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			The Klopp Express rolls on.....

I thought we were very slow passing and in possession with the ball.

Norwich with their 10men behind the ball were very well organised and compact in the middle of the park.


15pts to go to Operation Unbearable.
		
Click to expand...

You got the result but very lucky that Norwich squandered that great chance through on goal although 11/10 for Alisson for reading it and making the save. Good finish for the winner too and some days you just have to win playing under par and that's what you did.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 15, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			You got the result but very lucky that Norwich squandered that great chance through on goal although 11/10 for Alisson for reading it and making the save. Good finish for the winner too and some days you just have to win playing under par and that's what you did.
		
Click to expand...

I think you have to take the conditions into account.
The ball would not stay still for corners and free kicks.
Just controlling it in possession must have been tough.
The players did well in that wind.
Although on the telly it looked fine.
Allison earning his money.
The best goalkeepers are the ones who have nothing to do all game but make the save when needed.
Great save from krull as well from Kieta.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think you have to take the conditions into account.
The ball would not stay still for corners and free kicks.
Just controlling it in possession must have been tough.
The players did well in that wind.
Although on the telly it looked fine.
Allison earning his money.
The best goalkeepers are the ones who have nothing to do all game but make the save when needed.
Great save from krull as well from Kieta.
		
Click to expand...

No argument about the conditions and of course it'll play a part (for both sides) and watching it on the TV the players did put on a decent game in the wind. As I said, as far as Liverpool are concerned, take the win and get out of town. Doesn't have to pretty and a step closer to banishing the long wait


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Jesus after that, we’ve prob got the Everton spot on motd... 🤦‍♂️😭😆
		
Click to expand...

Rent free, Rent free.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			To simplify things.
Man Utds owners take money out of football.
Man City’s owners put money into football.

There is a lot about football at the moment that is wrong. You can if found guilty (after appeal) put Man City in with that.  But re City. At the moment they are found guilty of rules that were put in place to protect the top table.  chuck in Var, agents fees, World Cups in Middle East no doubt paid for, corruption in FIFA and UEFA. Yup the beautiful game is in a bad place at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

Don’t forget one of the main instigators of ffp being brought in was Platini, whatever happened to him?


----------



## Fish (Feb 15, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			15pts to go to Operation Unbearable.
		
Click to expand...

I won't be hanging around..........


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 15, 2020)

Fish said:



			I won't be hanging around..........
		
Click to expand...

Every cloud and all that 😉


----------



## fundy (Feb 15, 2020)

Fish said:



			I won't be hanging around..........
		
Click to expand...

pretty sure we just get fragger to close the thread dont we


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 15, 2020)

fundy said:



			pretty sure we just get fragger to close the thread dont we 

Click to expand...

😂😂 That’s cheating


----------



## Fish (Feb 15, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			😂😂 That’s cheating
		
Click to expand...

You mean do a City


----------



## fundy (Feb 15, 2020)

Fish said:



			You mean do a City 

Click to expand...

are they the first to be found guilty then, or are we ignoring your recent tfr ban


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 15, 2020)

Fish said:



			You mean do a City 

Click to expand...

They never cheated, they even said so themselves.....


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 15, 2020)

Reemul said:



			I am not defending Man City but FFP does stink and is aimed at keeping those at the top there and restricting those wishing to join it by limiting spending.

I do not understand how the Glazers can borrow £500 million against Man Utd to buy them (leveraged buyout) and this is all good and well but the richest Person in the world cannot spend a tiny amount of his money on his club to catch up those at the top.

FFP means it is now all but impossible for really rich people or companies to come in a spend lots of money on a club over a period of time. THis suppossed to protect clubs from dodgy owner coming in a spending money they do not have but as lower league teams are showing the shisters come in, remove the money and screw the clubs over, think Bury, Leyton Orient etc.

FFP and fit to own a club do not work. It's a monopoly for the top clubs in Europe and no way to join them and very little protection for those at the bottom. I mean the big clubs already have the biggest incomes and the biggest fan base and the most income so continue to spend more, those that don't regardless of how much stuff they win just cannot grow to the size of the top clubs which have grown over many years and also cannot spend as much. It must be like playing with one leg tied behind your back
		
Click to expand...

That's a really valid point. There should be a FFP to protect clubs too. Man United have been raped for 15 years and no one has said a thing. Yet the second Woodward gets a few idiots outside his house theres outrage. The Glazers have stolen billions from one of English footballs greatest clubs and nothing has been done. Woodward has been guilty of faciliating the scam and he's now overseeing the operation behind his 3m a year salary. This guy should be kicked out of football for good by any means. The same is going on at Arsenal but the fans are too melty to complain. A once great club resorting to nomark managers and loan signings as the pounds roll in. From a stadium that was sold to them to compete with Europe's elite - now they can't even finish in the Top 6. Sad and depressing as someone that grew up watching the great United and Arsenal sides.

But City still lied and defrauded the rules and should face the fines. The FA should strip them of their 2012 and 2014 titles and give them to United and Liverpool.


----------



## davemc1 (Feb 15, 2020)

4LEX said:



			That's a really valid point. There should be a FFP to protect clubs too. Man United have been raped for 15 years and no one has said a thing. Yet the second Woodward gets a few idiots outside his house theres outrage. The Glazers have stolen billions from one of English footballs greatest clubs and nothing has been done. Woodward has been guilty of faciliating the scam and he's now overseeing the operation behind his 3m a year salary. This guy should be kicked out of football for good by any means. The same is going on at Arsenal but the fans are too melty to complain. A once great club resorting to nomark managers and loan signings as the pounds roll in. From a stadium that was sold to them to compete with Europe's elite - now they can't even finish in the Top 6. Sad and depressing as someone that grew up watching the great United and Arsenal sides.

But City still lied and defrauded the rules and should face the fines. The FA should strip them of their 2012 and 2014 titles and give them to United and Liverpool.
		
Click to expand...

April fool that I missed?? 🤷‍♂️


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 15, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			April fool that I missed?? 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Just your clubs spending since 2017! If Everton qualified for Europe I'm sure they'd be questions to answer.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 15, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Don’t forget one of the main instigators of ffp being brought in was Platini, whatever happened to him?

Click to expand...

don’t set me off Paul Ave had a lovely valentines evening 😁👍😉


----------



## davemc1 (Feb 15, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Just your clubs spending since 2017! If Everton qualified for Europe I'm sure they'd be questions to answer.
		
Click to expand...

Who do you think I support?


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 15, 2020)

Fish said:



			You mean do a City 

Click to expand...

Are you saying I could slip fragger a bung to close the thread. 😳🤗


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 15, 2020)

4LEX said:



			That's a really valid point. There should be a FFP to protect clubs too. Man United have been raped for 15 years and no one has said a thing. Yet the second Woodward gets a few idiots outside his house theres outrage. The Glazers have stolen billions from one of English footballs greatest clubs and nothing has been done. Woodward has been guilty of faciliating the scam and he's now overseeing the operation behind his 3m a year salary. This guy should be kicked out of football for good by any means. The same is going on at Arsenal but the fans are too melty to complain. A once great club resorting to nomark managers and loan signings as the pounds roll in. From a stadium that was sold to them to compete with Europe's elite - now they can't even finish in the Top 6. Sad and depressing as someone that grew up watching the great United and Arsenal sides.

But City still lied and defrauded the rules and should face the fines. The FA should strip them of their 2012 and 2014 titles and give them to United and Liverpool.
		
Click to expand...

That post was going so well til the last sentence. FFP set up by UEFA/ Platini to protect who. The game or the top table. The very organisation that is corrupt to the core. Instigate rules to prevent anyone else for dining with Europe’s elite. Like I say, if after all this is done City end up with a ban. It’s a ban from a competition that no City fan is bothered about (unless they win it). A 25million fine. That’s a slap on the wrist. 
like I say, there’s a smell around football that ain’t going away very soon.


----------



## Fish (Feb 15, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Are you saying I could slip fragger a bung to close the thread. 😳🤗
		
Click to expand...

Depends on your idea of a 'bung', is that it's name


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 15, 2020)

Fish said:



			Depends on your idea of a 'bung', is that it's name 



Click to expand...

😂😂😂😳


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 15, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			That post was going so well til the last sentence. FFP set up by UEFA/ Platini to protect who. The game or the top table. The very organisation that is corrupt to the core. Instigate rules to prevent anyone else for dining with Europe’s elite. Like I say, if after all this is done City end up with a ban. It’s a ban from a competition that no City fan is bothered about (unless they win it). A 25million fine. That’s a slap on the wrist.
like I say, there’s a smell around football that ain’t going away very soon.
		
Click to expand...

It does seem very strange that the authorities in football Can ban one club yet turn a blind eye to others.
Not sure about your fans not being bothered about the CL!!


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 15, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			It does seem very strange that the authorities in football Can ban one club yet turn a blind eye to others.
Not sure about your fans not being bothered about the CL!!
		
Click to expand...

There’s always been a love hate relationship with City fans and UEFA. To be honest I think it gets under Peps skin a bit.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2020)

Reemul said:



			I am not defending Man City but FFP does stink and is aimed at keeping those at the top there and restricting those wishing to join it by limiting spending.

I do not understand how the Glazers can borrow £500 million against Man Utd to buy them (leveraged buyout) and this is all good and well but the richest Person in the world cannot spend a tiny amount of his money on his club to catch up those at the top.

FFP means it is now all but impossible for really rich people or companies to come in a spend lots of money on a club over a period of time. THis suppossed to protect clubs from dodgy owner coming in a spending money they do not have but as lower league teams are showing the shisters come in, remove the money and screw the clubs over, think Bury, Leyton Orient etc.

FFP and fit to own a club do not work. It's a monopoly for the top clubs in Europe and no way to join them and very little protection for those at the bottom. I mean the big clubs already have the biggest incomes and the biggest fan base and the most income so continue to spend more, those that don't regardless of how much stuff they win just cannot grow to the size of the top clubs which have grown over many years and also cannot spend as much. It must be like playing with one leg tied behind your back
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2020)

4LEX said:



			That's a really valid point. There should be a FFP to protect clubs too. Man United have been raped for 15 years and no one has said a thing. Yet the second Woodward gets a few idiots outside his house theres outrage. The Glazers have stolen billions from one of English footballs greatest clubs and nothing has been done. Woodward has been guilty of faciliating the scam and he's now overseeing the operation behind his 3m a year salary. This guy should be kicked out of football for good by any means. The same is going on at Arsenal but the fans are too melty to complain. A once great club resorting to nomark managers and loan signings as the pounds roll in. From a stadium that was sold to them to compete with Europe's elite - now they can't even finish in the Top 6. Sad and depressing as someone that grew up watching the great United and Arsenal sides.

But City still lied and defrauded the rules and should face the fines. The FA should strip them of their 2012 and 2014 titles and give them to United and Liverpool.
		
Click to expand...

A lot of pie in the sky nonsense there isn’t it 

“Raped” ?!

Stolen Billions ?!? - sorry but how can the owners “steal” from their own club - and have you got any proof of this - or do you mean the £1bn they have spent on players in the last 10 years


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 16, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A lot of pie in the sky nonsense there isn’t it 

“Raped” ?!

Stolen Billions ?!? - sorry but how can the owners “steal” from their own club - and have you got any proof of this - or do you mean the £1bn they have spent on players in the last 10 years
		
Click to expand...

No Phil, he means the debt that has been placed on Yernited directly by the Glazers  who have done this to buy the club with very little of their own money. 

If you believe the Glazers have spent £1bn on players then you're deluded. 

The Glazers are doing exactly what H&G attempted to do to us. 

I hate Yernited but I do have sympathy
For some of the fans.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			No Phil, he means the debt that has been placed on Yernited directly by the Glazers  who have done this to buy the club with very little of their own money.

If you believe the Glazers have spent £1bn on players then you're deluded.

The Glazers are doing exactly what H&G attempted to do to us.

I hate Yernited but I do have sympathy
For some of the fans.
		
Click to expand...

Then blame the guys who sold it to them - the club have spent a billion on players in the last 10 years - they used a leveraged buyout of loans - the club do have debt on them but it’s not “harming” the club - poor football decisions is 

Many weren’t crying about it when they were spending fortunes on players and they were winning titles and CL under the management

As soon as that stopped because of the poor decisions being made on the football side then the focus turns to the owners

Their finances are very healthy


----------



## Fish (Feb 16, 2020)

I'd read this previously, and what I took from it, in relation to City's objection of UEFA being judge & jury, simply isn't the case, well not wholly anyway, as the Belgium (ex) prime minister, as mentioned in that editorial, 'independently' found City in breach, and UEFA have acted on that independent report, so City's whining about it being a witch hunt solely by UEFA doesn't hold water, imo    

I think I've read also that City won't accept any deal, they want exonerating or it looks like 2 years expulsion, not sure if that's brave or stupid....


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 16, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Who do you think I support?
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣 you must have given him some reason to think you were a blue 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			🤣🤣🤣 you must have given him some reason to think you were a blue 🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

No chance.

Born, not manufactured.


----------



## davemc1 (Feb 16, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			🤣🤣🤣 you must have given him some reason to think you were a blue 🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Not another one! 😄


----------



## Slime (Feb 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			The Klopp Express rolls on.....

I thought we were very slow passing and in possession with the ball.

Norwich with their 10men behind the ball were very well organised and compact in the middle of the park.


*15pts to go to Operation Unbearable.*

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, Stu, that started some while ago.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 16, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Then blame the guys who sold it to them *- the club have spent a billion on players in the last 10 years - they used a leveraged buyout of loans - the club do have debt on them but it’s not “harming” the club - poor football decisions is

Many weren’t crying about it when they were spending fortunes on players and they were winning titles and CL under the management

As soon as that stopped because of the poor decisions being made on the football side then the focus turns to the owners

Their finances are very healthy
		
Click to expand...

Hindsights a wonderful thing Phil, impossible to blame the former owners as I’m pretty certain the Glazers never told them how they’d fund the club going forward.

The debt on the club is harming them, it’s only going to get worse as they digress with OGS and no CL football.

This type of football club ownership should be outlawed.

The fight we put up to H&G was a tough one, it split the support and it was a worrying time for many of us Because we didn’t want to lose our football club.

Others though preferred to blame Rafa and Lucas.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Hindsights a wonderful thing Phil, impossible to blame the former owners as I’m pretty certain the Glazers never told them how they’d fund the club going forward.

The debt on the club is harming them, it’s only going to get worse as they digress with OGS and no CL football.

This type of football club ownership should be outlawed.

The fight we put up to H&G was a tough one, it split the support and it was a worrying time for many of us Because we didn’t want to lose our football club.

Others though preferred to blame Rafa and Lucas.
		
Click to expand...

People still point fingers at our current owners because they don’t dip into their pockets to spend £100mil on a player 

The Glazier model isn’t a nice model - but they did it knowing that the revenue that UTD make commercially etc more than covers any repayments etc. They haven’t been financially crippled because of the loans due to already being a strong commercial place plus the match revenue. 

When H&G tired to do it with us we were in no way in a place to service any loans hence it massively affected us - UTD whilst still having about £200mil debt in loans are still able to function and spend very well on players - a massive amount has been spent on players over the years - it’s just been poorly spent which is why they are in a poor place but they will still bring  in massive amount of external revenue to cover any losses. As I said no one cared when they were winning PL and CL with the debt on the club ( a lot more than now ) but when they stopped winning stuff that’s when people start looking at the ownership - Utd’s issue is down to poor decisions on a football side , those loans will be fully serviced in a couple of years 

But I agree it shouldn’t be allowed to happen in regards the loan debt placed on the club


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Hindsights a wonderful thing Phil, impossible to blame the former owners as I’m pretty certain the Glazers never told them how they’d fund the club going forward.

The debt on the club is harming them, it’s only going to get worse as they digress with OGS and no CL football.

This type of football club ownership should be outlawed.

The fight we put up to H&G was a tough one, it split the support and it was a worrying time for many of us Because we didn’t want to lose our football club.

Others though preferred to blame Rafa and Lucas.
		
Click to expand...

Not on such a big scale but the David's have slowly over 10 years ruined our club

Yes we could have gone under but their model has proven to be awful.

They replaced loans from the banks with loans to themsleves .. saying we saved the clubs millions in interest but really they saw the chance to cream some cash off.. the % they charged the club was more than they would get leaving that money in the bank. For zero risk.

They moved us to a rented stadium and sold off our long term home. Yet was this money overly invested in the team? Not really.

Look deep into the transfers and you see short term loans.. players sold off to balance the books

The summer just past we spent 45 million (really about 35 ) on Haller yet the amount of players they sold to trim down the overal cost of running the club in wages etc was crimal. Not replaced and now they are proper scared of going down so were forced into buying players in January.

They have finally been called out by the press and sky .. soon as they do they threaten legal action. Same when we tried to sign a player from Porto was it .. the owner called them out.. they threaten legal action

I should move from they.. it's him. Sullivan. Gold seems just a nice guy who's getting his pension..it's gold who presses on with stupid deals. big Sam alluded to it on the radio saying he would highlight his targets and Sullivan would bring in another striker.. if he didn't work out was Sam's fault .. if he worked out Sullivan was a genuius 

Happened under bilic when Antonio was playing RB. He wasn't happy but was playing anyways.. Sullivan got wind and issued a statement that he would never play RB again.. under mining his then manager 

Any wonder payet wanted out when he was promised top signings when he moved to the OS but we get zaza on loan and he still lining up with noble ...

I hope they sell soon.

The one thing they unit is the support against them


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Not on such a big scale but the David's have slowly over 10 years ruined our club

Yes we could have gone under but their model has proven to be awful.

They replaced loans from the banks with loans to themsleves .. saying we saved the clubs millions in interest but really they saw the chance to cream some cash off.. the % they charged the club was more than they would get leaving that money in the bank. For zero risk.

They moved us to a rented stadium and sold off our long term home. Yet was this money overly invested in the team? Not really.

Look deep into the transfers and you see short term loans.. *players sold off to balance the books*

The summer just past we spent 45 million (really about 35 ) on Haller yet the amount of players they sold to trim down the overal cost of running the club in wages etc was crimal. Not replaced and now they are proper scared of going down so were forced into buying players in January.

They have finally been called out by the press and sky .. soon as they do they threaten legal action. Same when we tried to sign a player from Porto was it .. the owner called them out.. they threaten legal action

I should move from they.. it's him. Sullivan. Gold seems just a nice guy who's getting his pension..it's gold who presses on with stupid deals. big Sam alluded to it on the radio saying he would highlight his targets and Sullivan would bring in another striker.. if he didn't work out was Sam's fault .. if he worked out Sullivan was a genuius

Happened under bilic when Antonio was playing RB. He wasn't happy but was playing anyways.. Sullivan got wind and issued a statement that he would never play RB again.. under mining his then manager

Any wonder payet wanted out when he was promised top signings when he moved to the OS but we get zaza on loan and he still lining up with noble ...

I hope they sell soon.

The one thing they unit is the support against them
		
Click to expand...

Am I wrong in saying both David’s haven’t took a penny out of the club in Dividends/wages?

We’ve had to do that in previous years, Alonso,Torres, Coutinho to name a few. There’s also the FFP rules that are to be adhered to.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Hindsights a wonderful thing Phil, impossible to blame the former owners as I’m pretty certain the Glazers never told them how they’d fund the club going forward.

The debt on the club is harming them, it’s only going to get worse as they digress with OGS and no CL football.

This type of football club ownership should be outlawed.

The fight we put up to H&G was a tough one, it split the support and it was a worrying time for many of us Because we didn’t want to lose our football club.

Others though preferred to blame Rafa and Lucas.
		
Click to expand...

FFP in principal was sound, it was intended to stop Clubs going in to debt and managing on revenue produced by the Club.

Some Clubs have managed that, but not every Club started on a level plane.

It now virtually guarantees any Club getting a sugar daddy and buying success unless they are already established at the top.

Bournemouth for example could never be bought by a multi billionaire and compete with the big boys in the time scale City did it under ffp, but why not? Why shouldn’t they have that opportunity if it came along?

As for the City signed up to the FFP rules, every Club did, they had no choice.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 16, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			People still point fingers at our current owners because they don’t dip into their pockets to spend £100mil on a player

The Glazier model isn’t a nice model - *but they did it knowing that the revenue that UTD make commercially etc more than covers any repayments etc.* They haven’t been financially crippled because of the loans due to already being a strong commercial place plus the match revenue.

When H&G tired to do it with us we were in no way in a place to service any loans hence it massively affected us - UTD whilst still having about £200mil debt in loans are still able to function and spend very well on players - a massive amount has been spent on players over the years - it’s just been poorly spent which is why they are in a poor place but they will still bring  in massive amount of external revenue to cover any losses. _As I said no one cared when they were winning PL and CL with the debt on the club _( a lot more than now ) but when they stopped winning stuff that’s when people start looking at the ownership - Utd’s issue is down to poor decisions on a football side , those loans will be fully serviced in a couple of years

But I agree it shouldn’t be allowed to happen in regards the loan debt placed on the club
		
Click to expand...


*For now. A few more seasons without success/CL then it will/could cripple them.*
_
Thats natural For most businesses , not many are going to be too concerned when they’re winning. They only come under real scrutiny by many when the going gets tough. _


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 16, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Then blame the guys who sold it to them - the club have spent a billion on players in the last 10 years - they used a leveraged buyout of loans - the club do have debt on them but it’s not “harming” the club - poor football decisions is
*
Many weren’t crying about it when they were spending fortunes on players and they were winning titles and CL under the management*

As soon as that stopped because of the poor decisions being made on the football side then the focus turns to the owners

Their finances are very healthy
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but that wasnt the case at all. The glaziers have never been lauded by Utd fans. 

If anything their fans used to imagine just how dominate they'd have been if they weren't hampered by the debt. 

I agree that now it's footballing decisions that is the issue, but to claim that it was all rosey re fan support before fergie left is false.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



*For now. A few more seasons without success/CL then it will/could cripple them.*

_Thats natural For most businesses , not many are going to be too concerned when they’re winning. They only come under real scrutiny by many when the going gets tough. _

Click to expand...

I wouldn’t underestimate the power of their commercial model - they have missed CL football before and it didn’t matter , they may stupendous amount of commercial money - and it increases each year - even when they aren’t winning titles they are still one of the most popular worldwide teams , their match day income just increases. They have always managed to sort themselves out commercial - you only have see the last figures they released was a record for them ( think also premier League ). 

They just need to appoint the right CEO and manager and the funds are there - that debt will be gone soon enough. I don’t see Man Utd ever being crippled - always manage to pay the big bucks.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 16, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			FFP in principal was sound, it was intended to stop Clubs going in to debt and managing on revenue produced by the Club.

Some Clubs have managed that, *but not every Club started on a level plane.*

It now virtually guarantees any Club getting a sugar daddy and buying success unless they are already established at the top.

Bournemouth for example could never be bought by a multi billionaire and compete with the big boys in the time scale City did it under ffp, but why not? Why shouldn’t they have that opportunity if it came along?

As for the City signed up to the FFP rules, every Club did, they had no choice.
		
Click to expand...

It’d be impoossible to get every team on a level playing field, but I’m sure you agree something had to be done, FFP/Salary Caps etc.

I‘ve questioned FSG at times but there model seems to be a successful one to date, it’s took nearly 10years and many ups and downs though. 

Ok we were an established elite club but as a team we were average. It’s proved that with the right strategy though it can work. 

I think any team could benefit from a billionaire sugar daddy, Though it would take a longer period to achieve it for a Bournemouth type of club.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 16, 2020)

Slime said:



			Unfortunately, Stu, that started some while ago. 

Click to expand...

Dont worry Slimey old boy, I’ll crank it up another level or 2 😀😀


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It’d be impoossible to get every team on a level playing field, but I’m sure you agree something had to be done, FFP/Salary Caps etc.

I‘ve questioned FSG at times but there model seems to be a successful one to date, it’s took nearly 10years and many ups and downs though.

Ok we were an established elite club but as a team we were average. It’s proved that with the right strategy though it can work.

I think any team could benefit from a billionaire sugar daddy, Though it would take a longer period to achieve it for a Bournemouth type of club.
		
Click to expand...

Oh I agree, but think about your starting position and Phil’s comment above, Clubs like RM, Barca, Utd & yourselves have a massive commercial profile that gives an edge.

Let’s imagine a Saudi bought B’Mouth, from a player point of view they could have B’Mouth challenging for CL in 2-3 years with the right buys, money no object etc, but ffp wouldn’t allow it.

There profile would take 10-20yrs to get even a third of the way to meeting the commercial income of the big boys, and could still fail.

The well established big Clubs are somewhat protected by ffp.


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Am I wrong in saying both David’s haven’t took a penny out of the club in Dividends/wages?

We’ve had to do that in previous years, Alonso,Torres, Coutinho to name a few. There’s also the FFP rules that are to be adhered to.
		
Click to expand...

They use that as a sound bite to gather support 

"What's more, unlike some clubs in the Football League, these loans have carried interest payments, much like money loaned from a bank.

Interest on the money loaned has accrued at between 4-6%, club accounts have revealed.
This means that West Ham were seeing liabilities rise by as much as £3million per year in interest payments due on shareholder loans.
The first loan from Gold and Sullivan came in the 2010/11 season, their first full season in charge, when £3million was wired to the club"

"The 2017/18 season was the tipping point: between August 2017 and August 2018, Gold and Sullivan paid themselves a little under £14.6million in interest owed to them on their loans."

Who needs wages of say half a million a year when you are getting interest payments like this 

We have always been well under FFP. 

We don't even spend the TV money that comes in fully


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 16, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Oh I agree, but think about your starting position and Phil’s comment above, Clubs like RM, Barca, Utd & yourselves have a massive commercial profile that gives an edge.

Let’s imagine a Saudi bought B’Mouth, from a player point of view they could have B’Mouth challenging for CL in 2-3 years with the right buys, money no object etc, but ffp wouldn’t allow it.

There profile would take 10-20yrs to get even a third of the way to meeting the commercial income of the big boys, and could still fail.

*The well established big Clubs are somewhat protected by ffp*.
		
Click to expand...

It certainly seems that way, but that’s not the clubs Fault.

Don’t forget every club‘s given 3yrs to comply with FFP. So potentially Bournemouth could, with the correct strategy and commercial activity, be the next big club.

Aren’t Everton in a bit of a situation regards their Finances/FFP?


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			They use that as a sound bite to gather support

"What's more, unlike some clubs in the Football League, these loans have carried interest payments, much like money loaned from a bank.

Interest on the money loaned has accrued at between 4-6%, club accounts have revealed.
This means that West Ham were seeing liabilities rise by as much as £3million per year in interest payments due on shareholder loans.
The first loan from Gold and Sullivan came in the 2010/11 season, their first full season in charge, when £3million was wired to the club"

"The 2017/18 season was the tipping point: between August 2017 and August 2018, Gold and Sullivan paid themselves a little under £14.6million in interest owed to them on their loans."

Who needs wages of say half a million a year when you are getting interest payments like this

We have always been well under FFP.

We don't even spend the TV money that comes in fully
		
Click to expand...

Interesting.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It certainly seems that way, but that’s not the clubs Fault.

Don’t forget every club‘s given 3yrs to comply with FFP. So potentially Bournemouth could, with the correct strategy and commercial activity, be the next big club.

Aren’t Everton in a bit of a situation regards their Finances/FFP?
		
Click to expand...

Everton have voluntarily opened their books to the authorities, but like all Clubs they’ll be trying to dodge the rules.


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Interesting.
		
Click to expand...

One year they borrowed money in a loan against season ticket sales to buy a player in January 

Yet still took their payments 

So use the club as a money maker 

We always seem to loan to buy... Which is fine .. people have to do that. However they use as excuse to under invest in the summer 

For example we bought a midfielder in on loan. If we buy in summer that will come out summer budget 

Bowen was a summer target but others got interested so forced their hand. That will be a summer budget buy

Randolph ... Boro owed us money on him so that will be his fee

Lots of smoke and mirrors ..


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			One year they borrowed money in a loan against season ticket sales to buy a player in January

Yet still took their payments

So use the club as a money maker

We always seem to loan to buy... Which is fine .. people have to do that. However they use as excuse to under invest in the summer

For example we bought a midfielder in on loan. If we buy in summer that will come out summer budget

Bowen was a summer target but others got interested so forced their hand. That will be a summer budget buy

Randolph ... Boro owed us money on him so that will be his fee

Lots of smoke and mirrors ..
		
Click to expand...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....gold-david-moyes-relegation-a9306591.html?amp

West Ham don’t earn the level of money both on and off the pitch to allow them to “invest” to the level that West Ham fans expect - the club is financially sound at the moment but they need to stay in the Prem - do the fans expect the owners to start to buy players from their own pocket ?


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 16, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....gold-david-moyes-relegation-a9306591.html?amp

West Ham don’t earn the level of money both on and off the pitch to allow them to “invest” to the level that West Ham fans expect - the club is financially sound at the moment but they need to stay in the Prem - do the fans expect the owners to start to buy players from their own pocket ?
		
Click to expand...

https://talksport.com/football/3763...ned-tv-and-their-final-position-180518283150/

100 m plus 

Low running costs for not owning a stadium 
...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



https://talksport.com/football/3763...ned-tv-and-their-final-position-180518283150/

100 m plus

Low running costs for not owning a stadium
...
		
Click to expand...

a club needs more than telly income to pay the wages and fees - did West Ham make a profit last year ? Nope they will make a loss I believe so where is the funds for investment going to come from ? 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....ue-survival-financial-necessity-sullivan-gold

The fans expect the team to be challenging around the top 6 -


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 16, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Everton have voluntarily opened their books to the authorities, but like all Clubs they’ll be trying to dodge the rules.
		
Click to expand...

I heard someone mention £109m deficit iirc


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 16, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			a club needs more than telly income to pay the wages and fees - did West Ham make a profit last year ? Nope they will make a loss I believe so where is the funds for investment going to come from ? 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....ue-survival-financial-necessity-sullivan-gold

The fans expect the team to be challenging around the top 6 -
		
Click to expand...

As normal Phil you have missed the point by thinking you know everything .. not uncommon

The fans don't expect top 6 at all. We were promised champions League within 5 seasons of them taking over. What we expect is to be not constantly battling for bottom 6.

A clear transfer policy would be another expectation 

We sign random players who don't seem to be a fit for who we bought the week before.

Haller is a prime example. He's a class striker. Works great in a 2 or 3

So we buy him to play up top by himself. Yet wonder why it doesn't work.

Did the same to Hernandez


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I heard someone mention £109m deficit iirc
		
Click to expand...

The only noises mate are coming from those outside the Club who may or may not have ulterior motives.

What amazes me now is how we as fans have these discussions on a Clubs finance! Gone are the days when all we worried about is who we’re going sign and if we can 2/3 points from the next game.
Most noises about ffp come from opposition fans and some of it to me is jealousy and the fear of the status quo being rocked.

So long as it’s not illegal I don’t care were Clubs get their money.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



*As normal Phil you have missed the point by thinking you know everything .. not uncommon*

The fans don't expect top 6 at all. We were promised champions League within 5 seasons of them taking over. What we expect is to be not constantly battling for bottom 6.

*A clear transfer policy would be another expectation*

We sign random players who don't seem to be a fit for who we bought the week before.

Haller is a prime example. He's a class striker. Works great in a 2 or 3

So we buy him to play up top by himself. Yet wonder why it doesn't work.

Did the same to Hernandez
		
Click to expand...

Stick to Hockey 😆

That has to be the fault of the MD/CEO for the lack of transfer policy.

Some of these money men think it’s easy buying players.


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Stick to Hockey 😆

That has to be the fault of the MD/CEO for the lack of transfer policy.

Some of these money men think it’s easy buying players.
		
Click to expand...

Sullivan appointed himself as director of football because he loves to play championship manager 

We get someone in to be director football. Doesn't work out as he isn't given full financial support .. he wants X players he's given one of 5 maybe 

Sacks him appoints himself again


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			As normal Phil you have missed the point by thinking you know everything .. not uncommon
		
Click to expand...

I’m not sure why you feel the need to start digs at posters 




			The fans don't expect top 6 at all. We were promised champions League within 5 seasons of them taking over. What we expect is to be not constantly battling for bottom 6.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but heard enough West Ham fans on phone ins etc and even I reckon it will be interesting to see what your expectations were at the start of last season - did you really think promises matched reality ? They have spent money lots of it 




			A clear transfer policy would be another expectation

We sign random players who don't seem to be a fit for who we bought the week before.

Haller is a prime example. He's a class striker. Works great in a 2 or 3

So we buy him to play up top by himself. Yet wonder why it doesn't work.

Did the same to Hernandez
		
Click to expand...

But this is all football choices as opposed for owners and financial behind the scenes.  

It’s all about realistic expectations- there are I believe three levels in the Prem - the top 6 with Everton prob just on the outside - then the middle ground Prem teams which is where I see West Ham and then the teams they will be relegated and battling each season.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 16, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The only noises mate are coming from those outside the Club who may or may not have ulterior motives.

What amazes me now is how we as fans have these discussions on a Clubs finance! Gone are the days when all we worried about is who we’re going sign and if we can 2/3 points from the next game.

So long as it’s not illegal I don’t care were Clubs get their money.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately it’s part of modern football now.

It was at the AGM were the £109m deficit came from iirc

Heres the link I’m referring to    https://www.skysports.com/football/...but-confident-in-financial-fair-play-position


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 16, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I’m not sure why you feel the need to start digs at posters 



Sorry but heard enough West Ham fans on phone ins etc and even I reckon it will be interesting to see what your expectations were at the start of last season - did you really think promises matched reality ? They have spent money lots of it 



But this is all football choices as opposed for owners and financial behind the scenes.  

It’s all about realistic expectations- there are I believe three levels in the Prem - the top 6 with Everton prob just on the outside - then the middle ground Prem teams which is where I see West Ham and then the teams they will be relegated and battling each season.
		
Click to expand...

Because as always Phil you come out with you know it all attuide when really you know very little. Quickly shown when you try and prove your point 

Phone ins don't give a reflection of anything 

They are cherry picked to cause the most interest / controversy.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I’m not sure why you feel the need to start digs at posters



Sorry but heard enough West Ham fans on phone ins etc and even I reckon it will be interesting to see what your expectations were at the start of last season - did you really think promises matched reality ? They have spent money lots of it



But this is all football choices as opposed for owners and financial behind the scenes. 

It’s all about *realistic expectations*- there are I believe three levels in the Prem - the top 6 with Everton prob just on the outside - then the middle ground Prem teams which is where I see West Ham and then the teams they will be relegated and battling each season.
		
Click to expand...

That maybe correct currently, but isn’t that the problem, every team should have the chance of winning the PL if they get the opportunity for investment.

A few years back we had the big 4, now it’s the big 6, how are the teams in the middle and bottom meant to compete if there are financial restraints being held over them.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Unfortunately it’s part of modern football now.

It was at the AGM were the £109m deficit came from iirc

Heres the link I’m referring to    https://www.skysports.com/football/...but-confident-in-financial-fair-play-position

Click to expand...

That’s part of it.
*Everton have announced flat revenue, significant reduction in net debt but losses of £111.8m for an extended financial year ending June 2019 at this evening's AGM.*

The club's annual report shows turnover of £187.7m, very slightly down from the previous year thanks to merit payments of £24.9m and total broadcast income of £132.7m, with total commercial and sponsorship income rising 40.6% to £29.1m.

In addition, Everton's debt fell from £65.7m last year to just £9.2m but outgoings on player trading and wages, plus off-field investments in Goodison Park, Finch Farm and the Royal Liver Building meant that the club registered record losses for the 13-month period after interest and taxation.

That takes the club's losses over three years to around £94m, still under the £105m threshold mandated by Uefa's Financial Fair Play regulations.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			They use that as a sound bite to gather support

"What's more, unlike some clubs in the Football League, these loans have carried interest payments, much like money loaned from a bank.

Interest on the money loaned has accrued at between 4-6%, club accounts have revealed.
This means that West Ham were seeing liabilities rise by as much as £3million per year in interest payments due on shareholder loans.
The first loan from Gold and Sullivan came in the 2010/11 season, their first full season in charge, when £3million was wired to the club"

"The 2017/18 season was the tipping point: between August 2017 and August 2018, Gold and Sullivan paid themselves a little under £14.6million in interest owed to them on their loans."

Who needs wages of say half a million a year when you are getting interest payments like this

We have always been well under FFP.

*We don't even spend the TV money that comes in fully*

Click to expand...


I’ll come back to a few questions then 

If they don’t spent the telly money that comes in how come they run at a loss ?

You said in another post that it “was criminal to reduce the running costs of the club “ - how can it be criminal to do that when the club still runs at a loss ? Do you want them to run a loss each season ? 

Surely as an owner they need to balance the books - If West Ham were running at a profit then surely you could question where the money is but if everything earned is going out then where else can the money come from ? Need to find a way to improve the commercial income to put more money into the coffers - or do you want the owners to use their own money


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			That maybe correct currently, but isn’t that the problem, every team should have the chance of winning the PL if they get the opportunity for investment.

A few years back we had the big 4, now it’s the big 6, how are the teams in the middle and bottom meant to compete if there are financial restraints being held over them.
		
Click to expand...

We were under the same financial restraints and languishing mid table ten years ago because our financial and commercial model was shocking - a lot of hard work off the pitch by the commercial team allowed the clubs finances to grow plus a bit of luck - Everton have a standing that could also allow them too. Unfortunately these days it’s about being commercial savvy away from the pitch as much as good on the pitch.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 16, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			That’s part of it.
*Everton have announced flat revenue, significant reduction in net debt but losses of £111.8m for an extended financial year ending June 2019 at this evening's AGM.*

The club's annual report shows turnover of £187.7m, very slightly down from the previous year thanks to merit payments of £24.9m and total broadcast income of £132.7m, with total commercial and sponsorship income rising 40.6% to £29.1m.

In addition, Everton's debt fell from £65.7m last year to just £9.2m but outgoings on player trading and wages, plus off-field investments in Goodison Park, Finch Farm and the Royal Liver Building meant that the club registered record losses for the 13-month period after interest and taxation.

That takes the club's losses over three years to around £94m, still under the £105m threshold mandated by Uefa's Financial Fair Play regulations.
		
Click to expand...

Ah that makes it clearer. I wasn’t sure hence the question asked #9781👍🏻


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			We were under the same financial restraints and languishing mid table ten years ago because our financial and commercial model was shocking - a lot of hard work off the pitch by the commercial team allowed the clubs finances to grow plus a bit of luck - Everton have a standing that could also allow them too. Unfortunately these days it’s about being commercial savvy away from the pitch as much as good on the pitch.
		
Click to expand...

Languishing in mid-table? Bit of poetic license there mate.

Come on Phil, even as a Blue I recognise the profile you have worldwide compared to every other Club, bar Utd, in the PL, you weren’t starting as an unknown team.

Why as a fan should I worry about our profile in Asia if some Russian Billionaire wants to make us his play thing for 10yrs.

I remember the 70’s & 80’s when Merseyside virtually dominated the 1st Division and no one, absolutely no one gave 2 hoots about the financial side.

As others have said previously, it’s now more about business than sport and that’s sad


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Ah that makes it clearer. I wasn’t sure hence the question asked #9781👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

And the latest fiddle is Usmanov sponsoring Finch Farm naming rights as that brings in £35mill but doesn’t affect ffp.
Naming rights of the new Stadium will be another dodge of the rules.


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 16, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I’ll come back to a few questions then 

If they don’t spent the telly money that comes in how come they run at a loss ?

You said in another post that it “was criminal to reduce the running costs of the club “ - how can it be criminal to do that when the club still runs at a loss ? Do you want them to run a loss each season ? 

Surely as an owner they need to balance the books - If West Ham were running at a profit then surely you could question where the money is but if everything earned is going out then where else can the money come from ? Need to find a way to improve the commercial income to put more money into the coffers - or do you want the owners to use their own money
		
Click to expand...

Where does it say we run at the loss

In 2018 the accounts say 

"WH Holding Ltd has today announced its Full Year Results for the year ending 31 May 2018.
The Club made a net profit before tax of £18.3m, a decrease of £25.2m from 2016/17. This was driven by lower income including broadcast revenue, an increase in staff costs, the one-off inclusion in last year’s numbers of the sale of the Boleyn Ground and accounting adjustments for the FA Pension Scheme and triennial property revaluation. 
The Club’s net debt, including cash, has fallen by £11.0m and at the end of the season, had £10.0m of short-term funding and £54.5m of shareholder debt.
Turnover was £175.3m, £8m lower than the previous year, driven by a decrease in income including broadcast revenue and fewer home games negatively impacting Retail, Commercial & Sponsorship and Matchday income."

This year we made a loss of 28 million pre tax 

So it's hardly year on year loss is it?

The operating costs include their loan repayments plus interest of 4%

So whilst the club is running at s profit or loss and their not claiming wages their getting millions in their pockets aswell. We would make more profit if they just took wages .

Interest free loan and 500k a year each wages would be a good earner for them... Yet greed gets them much more than that ..


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Oh come on Phil, even as a Blue I recognise the profile you have worldwide compared to every other Club, bar Utd, in the PL, you weren’t starting as an unknown team.

Why as a fan should I worry about our profile in Asia if some Russian Billionaire wants to make us his play thing for 10yrs.

I remember the 70’s & 80’s when Merseyside virtually dominated the 1st Division and no one, absolutely no one gave 2 hoots about the financial side.

As others have said previously, it’s now more about business than sport and that’s sad
		
Click to expand...

It’s all well and good having the profile - waste of time if the club doesn’t use that profile commercially- and we weren’t , that’s the difference over the last ten years and why the new deal with Nike is huge for the club - we were dwarved by multiple teams for years in regards commercial enterprise. 

And as a fan I would rather the club be self sufficient and commercial viable knowing it stands on its own two feet without the need of some billionaire funds having to hold up the club. 

And no one gave two hoots about it in the 70’s and 80’s because it was just within the UK - the minute the premier league started it all changed and became global - the players and clubs care about that because that’s what brings in the money to help the clubs to be a success .


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s all well and good having the profile - waste of time if the club doesn’t use that profile commercially- and we weren’t , that’s the difference over the last ten years and why the new deal with Nike is huge for the club - we were dwarved by multiple teams for years in regards commercial enterprise.

And as a fan I would rather the club be self sufficient and commercial viable knowing it stands on its own two feet without the need of some billionaire funds having to hold up the club.

And no one gave two hoots about it in the 70’s and 80’s because it was just within the UK - the minute the premier league started it all changed and became global - the players and clubs care about that because that’s what brings in the money to help the clubs to be a success .
		
Click to expand...

The 70’s & 80’s when you dominated Europe? Highest Profile of all English Clubs, Most successful English Club etc...Players recruited from Africa and Australia? Are you sure it was just UK?

You were competing in the World Club Championship more than 10yrs ago, you’ve never finished lower than 8th, I don’t think you’re truly reflecting the position LPool were in for the period prior to the last 10yrs.

PS. You are owned by foreign billionaires.


----------



## pendodave (Feb 16, 2020)

Not sure if covered here (apologies if out has), but the fenway group are very low inthe estimations of new englanders at the moment because they've just traded away the 2nd best player in baseball to one of their main rivals in order to save money.  Hopefully their penny pinching ways will find their way over to la la land...


----------



## Reemul (Feb 16, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s all well and good having the profile - waste of time if the club doesn’t use that profile commercially- and we weren’t , that’s the difference over the last ten years and why the new deal with Nike is huge for the club - we were dwarved by multiple teams for years in regards commercial enterprise.
		
Click to expand...

I have to say you really don't seem to get it do you. The Nike deal would never go to a club without a history and profile of a club like Liverpool. If Leicester win the league again they still have zero chance of getting a decent kit deal comparable to the world wide branded clubs. No matter what you say this is a fact. Liverpool are in the club and even without winning the league have always been in the club. We were dwarfed by multiple teams for years, not really, you were poorly managed at a club level but you have never been short of cash or players, you just spent it poorly.

Liverpool are a massive club and has been for 50 years, that brings a lot of benefits most clubs will never get the chance to have and taking away their financial options will never allow them to catch up.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The 70’s & 80’s when you dominated Europe? Highest Profile of all English Clubs, Most successful English Club etc...Players recruited from Africa and Australia? Are you sure it was just UK?

You were competing in the World Club Championship more than 10yrs ago, you’ve never finished lower than 8th, I don’t think you’re truly reflecting the position LPool were in for the period prior to the last 10yrs.

PS. You are owned by foreign billionaires.
		
Click to expand...

How many people outside the UK watched the English Football league as it was called ? It was just broadcast in the UK with the odd match across Commonwealth countries. I don’t even think the World Club was broadcast on telly 

It wasn’t about making money in the 70’s and 80’s - players didn’t earn fortunes - it was a massively different game - it wasn’t about “profiles”

And players from Africa and Australia - overstating that a touch - when it’s a player who was seen playing for Crewe and another at Middlesbrough 

Even when we had an upturn during the Rafa years they didn’t take advantage of any commercial value - that changed over the past decade with owners who whilst are billionaires don’t prop the club up with personal fortunes , they own the club but they don’t put any further money into it beyond what the club earns - even the new stand builds were done on loans from them which are being paid back.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How many people outside the UK watched the English Football league as it was called ? It was just broadcast in the UK with the odd match across Commonwealth countries. I don’t even think the World Club was broadcast on telly

It wasn’t about making money in the 70’s and 80’s - players didn’t earn fortunes - it was a massively different game - it wasn’t about “profiles”

And players from Africa and Australia - overstating that a touch - when it’s a player who was seen playing for Crewe and another at Middlesbrough

Even when we had an upturn during the Rafa years they didn’t take advantage of any commercial value - that changed over the past decade with owners who whilst are billionaires don’t prop the club up with personal fortunes , they own the club but they don’t put any further money into it beyond what the club earns - even the new stand builds were done on loans from them which are being paid back.
		
Click to expand...

OK, obviously we see it different, I see the football and trophies as more important, not the p+l sheet.

Overstating? Please expand you languishing as a mid-table team for all those years, unless the PL had only 16 Clubs, you’ve never been mid-table.

Those players brought coverage and raised your profile in their respective Countries.

Be assured FSG don’t see Lpool as a charity, they are making millions from you.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			OK, obviously we see it different, I see the football and trophies as more important, not the p+l sheet.
		
Click to expand...

Clubs don’t win trophies without good balance sheets anymore - good  financial awareness are key to a club being a success on the pitch - if they don’t get successful off the pitch they won’t win a thing 




			Overstating? Please expand you languishing as a mid-table team for all those years, unless the PL had only 16 Clubs, you’ve never been mid-table.
		
Click to expand...

Where did i say “for all those years” - when the new owners took over we were in the bottom half of the league , in debt and losing all our best players. The club were run poorly off the pitch for years - and didn’t take advantage of any global appeal on any commercial level whilst other clubs were.




			Those players brought coverage and raised your profile in their respective Countries.
		
Click to expand...

What coverage ? The english league didn’t suddenly explode in Africa because we had a guy from Zimbabwe playing for us or in Australia because of Johnston - the media platform wasn’t there for it to happen 




			Be assured FSG don’t see Lpool as a charity, they are making millions from you.
		
Click to expand...

Where did I say they see us as a charity? They may well make millions somewhere because of us but it’s not money coming from club into their pockets.


----------



## Slime (Feb 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Dont worry Slimey old boy, I’ll crank it up another level or 2 😀😀
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Fade and Die (Feb 16, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I’ll come back to a few questions then

If they don’t spent the telly money that comes in how come they run at a loss ?

You said in another post that it “was criminal to reduce the running costs of the club “ - how can it be criminal to do that when the club still runs at a loss ? Do you want them to run a loss each season ?

Surely as an owner they need to balance the books - If West Ham were running at a profit then surely you could question where the money is but if everything earned is going out then where else can the money come from ? Need to find a way to improve the commercial income to put more money into the coffers - or *do you want the owners to use their own money*

Click to expand...

Of course we do, otherwise what is the point of having wealthy owners? 
They have soaked millions out of the club in interest payments and made a fortune selling Upton Park...people criticise Mike Ashley but all the money he put into Newcastle was interest free. 
Personally if we go down and the owners lose a packet I will be highly delighted!... It won’t bother me, I actually enjoy Championship Footy. 

Will I miss the delights of watching some preening, over-tattooed household-name throwing himself around like a rag doll in a hurricane to "win" a penalty? No. 
Will I miss VAR? Of course not...The club continues. In whatever division they play. I'll still watch. And I'll still support. And I may well enjoy it all the more.


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 16, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Of course we do, otherwise what is the point of having wealthy owners? 
They have soaked millions out of the club in interest payments and made a fortune selling Upton Park...people criticise Mike Ashley but all the money he put into Newcastle was interest free. 
Personally if we go down and the owners lose a packet I will be highly delighted!... It won’t bother me, I actually enjoy Championship Footy. 

Will I miss the delights of watching some preening, over-tattooed household-name throwing himself around like a rag doll in a hurricane to "win" a penalty? No. 
Will I miss VAR? Of course not...The club continues. In whatever division they play. I'll still watch. And I'll still support. And I may well enjoy it all the more.
		
Click to expand...

Whilst It wont be so easy to get out this time the owners are more suited to that level

The level they invest gets them out the champ

Nolan was a great signing for a championship club 

Come January we bought the second highest goal scorer in the champ for peanuts 

We had bought maynard , Carew  , loads of named who were perfect for that level even if maynard didn't hit it off for us he was proven at that level


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Clubs don’t win trophies without good balance sheets anymore - good  financial awareness are key to a club being a success on the pitch - if they don’t get successful off the pitch they won’t win a thing.

*Really? You’ve mentioned Utd’s plight yet they recently won 3 trophies under Jose.
Financial awareness would be irrelevant if FFP wasn’t in place.*

Where did i say “for all those years” - when the new owners took over we were in the bottom half of the league , in debt and losing all our best players. The club were run poorly off the pitch for years - and didn’t take advantage of any global appeal on any commercial level whilst other clubs were.
*You brought the word “Lanquished” in to the discussion, the definition of which is:
to **exist** in an unpleasant or unwanted situation, often for a long time.*
*Does that really define the situation yous were in when FSG took over in Oct 2010? Prior to that yous had finished top 4 in 8 out of the previous 11 seasons, winning 9 trophies.*

What coverage ? The english league didn’t suddenly explode in Africa because we had a guy from Zimbabwe playing for us or in Australia because of Johnston - the media platform wasn’t there for it to happen.
*Agreed we never had the media platform we do today, but you can’t deny you weren’t a global commodity that would of had your profile raised by signing the likes of Grobbelar and Johnson etc.*

Where did I say they see us as a charity? They may well make millions somewhere because of us but it’s not money coming from club into their pockets.
*You need to read the Lpool accounts, FSG have had some of their loans and interests paid. I agree they look like they are decent owners(with the odd hiccup) but do you really mean it’s not money coming from the club into their pockets?*

Click to expand...


----------



## Fish (Feb 16, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Of course we do, otherwise what is the point of having wealthy owners?
They have soaked millions out of the club in interest payments and made a fortune selling Upton Park...people criticise Mike Ashley but all the money he put into Newcastle was interest free.
Personally if we go down and the owners lose a packet I will be highly delighted!... It won’t bother me, I actually enjoy Championship Footy.

Will I miss the delights of watching some preening, over-tattooed household-name throwing himself around like a rag doll in a hurricane to "win" a penalty? No.
Will I miss VAR? Of course not...The club continues. In whatever division they play. I'll still watch. And I'll still support. And I may well enjoy it all the more.
		
Click to expand...

I think its more of a requirement for directors at West Ham to loan their own money to the club if needed, especially if its interest free, as the difference between them, and most, if not all other clubs, is, if other clubs are running at a loss, they can only do that whilst their assets exceed those debts/losses, otherwise they're insolvent, but I'd think that West Ham's assets are significantly less than any other club in the league as they own less, especially as they rent their ground, so they don't have any security, so I'd think it's tougher for the likes of West Ham to balance the books and operate within their means than most if not all other clubs who have substantial assets and other investments.


----------



## Rlburnside (Feb 16, 2020)

Villa unlucky to concede a penalty there, don’t think that should have been given. 
Very open game few mistakes but think we will come out with 3 points.  
Grealish is a class player and will attract a lot of attention from so called bigger teams


----------



## Fade and Die (Feb 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Whilst It wont be so easy to get out this time the owners are more suited to that level

The level they invest gets them out the champ

Nolan was a great signing for a championship club

Come January we bought the second highest goal scorer in the champ for peanuts

We had bought maynard , Carew  , loads of named who were perfect for that level even if maynard didn't hit it off for us he was proven at that level
		
Click to expand...

Yes, historically we have been in the second tier more than the top tier and most of my good memories are of us in the second tier.
Don’t know if the current owners will hang around, got a feeling that once the gravy train stops, a couple of years of parachute payments, a bit of asset stripping then they can sell the club without having to pay the government any money back then they will be off.


----------



## fundy (Feb 16, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			Villa unlucky to concede a penalty there, don’t think that should have been given. 
Very open game few mistakes but think we will come out with 3 points.  
Grealish is a class player and will attract a lot of attention from so called bigger teams
		
Click to expand...

just dont understand how thats a pen, hes already on the way down and still manages to play the ball

only a matter of time before its a non contact sport!

Would love Grealish at Arsenal, sadly be out of our reach


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 16, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Oh I agree, but think about your starting position and Phil’s comment above, Clubs like RM, Barca, Utd & yourselves have a massive commercial profile that gives an edge.

Let’s imagine a Saudi bought B’Mouth, from a player point of view they could have B’Mouth challenging for CL in 2-3 years with the right buys, money no object etc, but ffp wouldn’t allow it.

There profile would take 10-20yrs to get even a third of the way to meeting the commercial income of the big boys, and could still fail.

The well established big Clubs are somewhat protected by ffp.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, but we possibly need a middle way, IF you still want to treasure football as a sport.

The 2/3 clubs who have short-cut  winning the leagues and competing at the top ends (Blackburn, Chelsea and City) by massive over-investment have got to the top, and it could easily happen again. Lets face it if Bill Gates bought Tin-pot town rovers from the Conference, supported by a local populace of 20,000, with gates currently below 1,000, within 10-20 years he could have them winning the CL in a 60k stadium (although they may not fill it). If he brought in the equivalent likes of KDB, VVD, Messi, Ronaldo, Alisson and another 20 like them its not a competitive sport  

I also dont believe in keeping the same 3-4-6 "elite clubs" at the top for evermore either.

Share the TV money, share the CL money around the rest of the league, maybe even share around some of the other incomes, although I think its only right that each club keeps what it generates through the turnstiles and through locally purchased merchandise, at the very least. Make the incomes less disparate from Bournemouth to Man United. Maybe even look into how a draft system may work out (not saying it will BTW).

Also make the CL groups non-seeded, so if Liverpool, Real, Barca and Bayern end up in one group, hard cheese get on with it, instead of a pyramid system designed to keep the 6-8 mega clubs apart until the semis.

Stop the elite clubs dictating to the rest in Europe and in the Premiership with this "well if we dont get what we get, we'll form a European super league", and start spreading most of the wealth year after year, so other clubs dont have to make as much of a leap.

Fair enough, Liverpool/United/Arsenal etc fans want to see their money go to their own clubs and not to others when they buy tickets, shirts etc, but if more of the advertising/TV/CL "neutral" money comes into the game, split it more evenly.

But, I want it to be a sport and not just a billionaire's plaything as a route to making them famous or sports-washing to make a certain emirate to look like "good eggs". That is not a sport.


----------



## Fade and Die (Feb 16, 2020)

Fish said:



			I think its more of a requirement for directors at West Ham to loan their own money to the club if needed, especially if its interest free, as the difference between them, and most, if not all other clubs, is, if other clubs are running at a loss, they can only do that whilst their assets exceed those debts/losses, otherwise they're insolvent, but I'd think that West Ham's assets are significantly less than any other club in the league as they own less, especially as they rent their ground, so they don't have any security, so I'd think it's tougher for the likes of West Ham to balance the books and operate within their means than most if not all other clubs who have substantial assets and other investments.
		
Click to expand...

But they just see the club as a cash cow. As Pauljames said if they took half a mill each and loaned the money interest free that would be honest, instead they portray themselves as fans not taking a penny from the club when the truth is very different. They are worth about a Billion between them but they try to do everything on the cheap.... Christ they were even selling the old seats from UP for £50 a pop rather than just letting everyone help themselves. Threatening fans that if we took them after the last game it would be a criminal offence!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, but we possibly need a middle way, IF you still want to treasure football as a sport.

The 2/3 clubs who have short-cut  winning the leagues and competing at the top ends (Blackburn, Chelsea and City) by massive over-investment have got to the top, and it could easily happen again. Lets face it if Bill Gates bought Tin-pot town rovers from the Conference, supported by a local populace of 20,000, with gates currently below 1,000, within 10-20 years he could have them winning the CL in a 6k stadium (although they may not fill it). If he brought in the equivalent likes of KDB, VVD, Messi, Ronaldo, Alisson and another 20 like them its not a competitive sport  

I also dont believe in keeping the same 3-4-6 "elite clubs" at the top for evermore either.

Share the TV money, share the CL money around the rest of the league, maybe even share around some of the other incomes, although I think its only right that each club keeps what it generates through the turnstiles and through locally purchased merchandise, at the very least. Make the incomes less disparate from Bournemouth to Man United. Maybe even look into how a draft system make work out (not saying it will BTW).

Also make the CL groups non-seeded, so if Liverpool, Real, Barca and Bayern end up in one group, hard cheese get on with it, instead of a pyramid system designed to keep the 6-8 mega clubs apart until the semis.

Stop the elite clubs dictating to the rest in Europe and in the Premiership with this "well if we dont get what we get, we'll form a European super league", and start spreading most of the wealth year after year, so other clubs dont have to make as much a leap.

Fair enough, Liverpool/United/Arsenal etc fans want to see their money go to their own clubs and not to others when they buy tickets, shirts etc, but if more of the advertising/TV/CL "neutral" money comes into the game, split it more evenly.

But, I want it to be a sport and not just a billionaire's plaything as a route to making them famous or sports-washing to make a certain emirate to look like "good eggs". That is not a sport.
		
Click to expand...

Cracking post that I don’t disagree with any of.

The problem is, is that it’s fantasy land, I don’t think we’ll ever get the situation you propose, I hate to say it but it’s dead as a sport.

The money at the UEFA/FIFA level is too great and the chance of a genuine supporter being a billionaire and having the patience to do it within the rules are virtually nil.

I would add Leicester in to that list of clubs getting success through money as their behaviour getting out of the Championship was not exactly innocent.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2020)

Great game on BT Sport3 at the moment, Cologne v Bayern, Bayern currently 3-0 up after 12 minutes, still 3-0 after 39 minutes but it’s a proper footballing display, and they’ve hit the woodwork 3 times.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 16, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The 70’s & 80’s when you dominated Europe? Highest Profile of all English Clubs, Most successful English Club etc...Players recruited from Africa and Australia? Are you sure it was just UK?

You were competing in the World Club Championship more than 10yrs ago, you’ve never finished lower than 8th, I don’t think you’re truly reflecting the position LPool were in for the period prior to the last 10yrs.

PS. You are owned by foreign billionaires.
		
Click to expand...

Come on, if your not going to look at the different profiles of how the different owners have acted, its disingenuous.

Abramovic and Mansour "loaned" hundreds of millions to their clubs, if not more than a billion.

The Glazers did theirs as a leveraged buyout.

FSG arent even going to loan us the money to build the Anny road end (fair enough). What they have done is professional make over our club, seek more (genuine) sponsors, and over 10 years slowly but surely turned our club around, and not with tonnes of their own money. 

Yes we were successful in the 70's and 80's and is some of the reasons for our worldwide support, Istanbul being another. BUT we didnt commercially "exploit" it for decades the way united did with their worldwide support and profile. 

In another post you said you still want it to be a sport, but in another more than happy to shortcut it again by just going down the sugar daddy route?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 16, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Cracking post that I don’t disagree with any of.

The problem is, is that it’s fantasy land, I don’t think we’ll ever get the situation you propose, I hate to say it but it’s dead as a sport.

The money at the UEFA/FIFA level is too great and the chance of a genuine supporter being a billionaire and having the patience to do it within the rules are virtually nil.

I would add Leicester in to that list of clubs getting success through money as their behaviour getting out of the Championship was not exactly innocent.
		
Click to expand...

It may well be, but things change and unless you talk about options , propose and fight for them things will stay as the status quo.

In the last 25 years, off the top of my head, we have had restrictions on amount of foreigner players in a team/squad, owner checks (okay that one was a joke),Bosman ruling,FFP, VAR and possibly a few other things.

Some may have worked, some not, some partially, but unless we try and change you may as well give up.


----------



## Fish (Feb 16, 2020)

Never rely on Villa for anything 😡


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 16, 2020)

Harsh result for Villa but that was proper pub league defending at the end there. Cracking game though. Reina looked a very good signing for Villa based on that display.


----------



## fundy (Feb 16, 2020)

hmmm based on team selection seems like Arsenal not gonna bother trying to defend at all then today (i know i know lol)


----------



## Robin Hood (Feb 16, 2020)

Toon Army putting out a very strong team against Arsenal.
Looking forward to the next 2 hours ⚽️👍⚽️


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Come on, if your not going to look at the different profiles of how the different owners have acted, its disingenuous.

Abramovic and Mansour "loaned" hundreds of millions to their clubs, if not more than a billion.

The Glazers did theirs as a leveraged buyout.

FSG arent even going to loan us the money to build the Anny road end (fair enough). What they have done is professional make over our club, seek more (genuine) sponsors, and over 10 years slowly but surely turned our club around, and not with tonnes of their own money.

Yes we were successful in the 70's and 80's and is some of the reasons for our worldwide support, Istanbul being another. BUT we didnt commercially "exploit" it for decades the way united did with their worldwide support and profile.

In another post you said you still want it to be a sport, but in another more than happy to shortcut it again by just going down the sugar daddy route?
		
Click to expand...

You have to put in context the post I was answering, Phil was making it look like you had a period of troubles and languishing in mid-table, I disagreed based on the success on the pitch. Yes you had issues with owners.
You won far more in the previous 10yrs of FSG than you have since they took over.
I’m sure if there’s now a discussion on financial stability alone then yes FSG look to have done a great job(which I have already acknowledged)
My point is, what does the average man in the street want, trophies or money in the bank?
As for my sugar daddy v Sport, again I’ve stated the Sport alone is now fantasy and ffp is not working, therefore until we have the situation you described, good luck to those who may get or benefit from a said sugar daddy.


----------



## Rlburnside (Feb 16, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Harsh result for Villa but that was proper pub league defending at the end there. Cracking game though. Reina looked a very good signing for Villa based on that display.
		
Click to expand...

Ye agree agree was unlucky for Villa, but important 3 points, big game coming up against Chelsea.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			It may well be, but things change and unless you talk about options , propose and fight for them things will stay as the status quo.

In the last 25 years, off the top of my head, we have had restrictions on amount of foreigner players in a team/squad, owner checks (okay that one was a joke),Bosman ruling,FFP, VAR and possibly a few other things.

Some may have worked, some not, some partially, but unless we try and change you may as well give up.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately mate I don’t think the FIFA/UEFA monopoly will ever change, no matter how much we’d want it to.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 16, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			Ye agree agree was unlucky for Villa, but important 3 points, big game coming up against Chelsea.
		
Click to expand...

You actually had enough chances to wrap it up comfortably _so the result was _a fair cop. It was just the timing and manner of that goal which would be tough for Villa.


----------



## fundy (Feb 16, 2020)

Robin Hood said:



			Toon Army putting out a very strong team against Arsenal.
Looking forward to the next 2 hours ⚽️👍⚽️
		
Click to expand...

odd looking Arsenal side, almost as if we dont have any one who can defend so wont try and pick any lol so brought in ceballos for torreira as well as pepe and nketiah for martinelli and lacazette too

maybe more a case of Arteta having a look at a few who havent had much game time


----------



## fundy (Feb 16, 2020)

didnt realise the weather was that bad to explain all those empty seats


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 16, 2020)

Well, here we go, lets see what we have. Bit of a  Heinz 57 line up.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 16, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You have to put in context the post I was answering, Phil was making it look like you had a period of troubles and languishing in mid-table, I disagreed based on the success on the pitch. Yes you had issues with owners.
You won far more in the previous 10yrs of FSG than you have since they took over.
I’m sure if there’s now a discussion on financial stability alone then yes FSG look to have done a great job(which I have already acknowledged)
My point is, what does the average man in the street want, trophies or money in the bank?
As for my sugar daddy v Sport, again I’ve stated the Sport alone is now fantasy and ffp is not working, therefore until we have the situation you described, good luck to those who may get or benefit from a said sugar daddy.
		
Click to expand...

Good points on the trophies vs money in the bank argument, but to me their is a 3rd (and most important) factor which they have possibly outperformed everyone in - infrastructure.

Me and stuey have discussed this before and he wants everything putting into the transfer dealings, whereas I wanted Anfield to be expanded as a priority.

Not only are they expanding 2 out of four stands, which increases income, and profile, they have also invested in the future of the youth and team development with Melwood and Kirby all coming under one site for 50 million.

Thats even before more sponsorship, commercial opportunities, social media expansion (sadly important these days) and much more.

Okay, we've only won one trophy since 2012 and I get that that isnt good enough, but if we have a golden era ahead of us, it will be more than worth it.

Believe it or not, FFP does allow you to invest in the infrastructure of your club massively - stadium, training ground and more but only lets you massively invest in the team for a few years, which I do agree with them limitations, but with the massive expansion in transfer fees in the last few years, maybe they need to increase the limits more.

By the looks of it, and it was plainly obvious at the time, City have tried to circumvent the rules, and brazenly as well, so they deserve the current ban, and I think it is proportional, but we all know it will end up being 2 years (nett. 1).


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 16, 2020)

8 minutes in, Xhaka booked. No change there then.


----------



## fundy (Feb 16, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			8 minutes in, Xhaka booked. No change there then.
		
Click to expand...

wasnt even his first clumsy foul!


----------



## paddyc (Feb 16, 2020)

b



fundy said:



			wasnt even his first clumsy foul!
		
Click to expand...

Now he has to go 80 mins on a yellow without conceding  another  stupid  foul. Unlikely


----------



## Dando (Feb 16, 2020)

fundy said:



			didnt realise the weather was that bad to explain all those empty seats 

Click to expand...

It’s fancy dress day and loads have gone dressed up as empty seats 😂🤣


----------



## need_my_wedge (Feb 16, 2020)

Two shots on goal in 31 mins. This Arsenal team are really poor today


----------



## fundy (Feb 16, 2020)

need_my_wedge said:



			Two shots on goal in 31 mins. This Arsenal team are really poor today
		
Click to expand...


one word too many


----------



## need_my_wedge (Feb 16, 2020)

fundy said:



			one word too many 

Click to expand...

😀


----------



## fundy (Feb 16, 2020)

positives: Ceballos
negatives: lack of press, structure, square pegs in round holes, Aubam wasted out on the left

get Torreira on, Aubam more central, Ceballos further forward plse


----------



## paddyc (Feb 16, 2020)

fundy said:



			positives: Ceballos
negatives: lack of press, structure, square pegs in round holes, Aubam wasted out on the left.  XHAKA??

get Torreira on, Aubam more central, Ceballos further forward plse
		
Click to expand...


----------



## paddyc (Feb 16, 2020)

Looking toothless in attack. Push bellerin   on move Pepe to left get Auba down the middle.


----------



## need_my_wedge (Feb 16, 2020)

Saka and Bellerin have both been poor today. Pepe Doesn't look like he wants to carry the ball forward. We're just so slooow in attack.


----------



## fundy (Feb 16, 2020)

need_my_wedge said:



			Saka and Bellerin have both been poor today. Pepe Doesn't look like he wants to carry the ball forward. We're just so slooow in attack.
		
Click to expand...

Bit harsh on Saka, still only 18 and playing out of position on 3k a week, plenty who deserve criticism ahead of him!


----------



## fundy (Feb 16, 2020)

top header Aubam

get your main striker in the middle, rocket science


----------



## fundy (Feb 16, 2020)

Better 

brilliant from Saka!!!!


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 16, 2020)

They need to sort out Saka, before he wants out. Not on enough, many on way too much.


----------



## need_my_wedge (Feb 16, 2020)

fundy said:



			Better 

brilliant from Saka!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Was being harsh but I'll eat my hat with that play


----------



## paddyc (Feb 16, 2020)

Surely   we cant balls it up now.


----------



## fundy (Feb 16, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			They need to sort out Saka, before he wants out. Not on enough, many on way too much.
		
Click to expand...


For sure!

Would like to see them do a deal for Ceballos too if possible but expect thats dependent on whether they can offload the biggest wage burden


----------



## fundy (Feb 16, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Surely   we cant balls it up now.
		
Click to expand...

really Pat???


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 16, 2020)

Not sure about Ceballos.


----------



## paddyc (Feb 16, 2020)

Im sorry Eddie but your having a stinker. wheres Martinelli?


----------



## fundy (Feb 16, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Not sure about Ceballos.
		
Click to expand...

would like to see him in behind the front (with Ozil getting splinters)


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 16, 2020)

fundy said:



			would like to see him in behind the front (with Ozil getting splinters)
		
Click to expand...

Maybe, but then I quite like Willock.


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 16, 2020)

He reminds me of Rosicky a bit, in how he drives it forward.


----------



## need_my_wedge (Feb 16, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Surely   we cant balls it up now.
		
Click to expand...

why would you say something like that, nothing like jinxing it😳


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 16, 2020)

Jeez, playing it out from the back can give me the heebeejeebies.


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 16, 2020)

Not emphatic, but happy for Ozil. If he is in the team, I would like to see him do ok.


----------



## paddyc (Feb 16, 2020)

fundy said:



			really Pat???
		
Click to expand...

Should be safe now!


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 16, 2020)

How important will Lacas goal be. He needed to get on the score sheet. Job done.


----------



## Robin Hood (Feb 16, 2020)

Oh well......
Well done Arsenal.
We were awful up front.


----------



## paddyc (Feb 16, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			How important will Lacas goal be. He needed to get on the score sheet. Job done.
		
Click to expand...

9 games without a goal im sure he will take any sort even a scuff onto his left foot from his right.#fortunate


----------



## Fish (Feb 16, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Should be safe now!
		
Click to expand...

What, from relegation 😜😂😂


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 16, 2020)

Robin Hood said:



			Oh well......
Well done Arsenal.
We were awful up front.
		
Click to expand...

No idea why joelinton is still getting a game. Surely there is someone else in the u'23 team or whatever teams call the reserves now who is worth giving a go. How can they be worse? If they aren't better than him then frankly they have no future in the PL anyway and should be moved on. Did you see the incident in the first half where Saint Maximan did a fabulous run, passes a number of defenders, looks to pass, joelinton is nowhere near the box, so he has to shoot, he has run out of pitch? Joelinto eventually comes into shot, just ambling to the edge of the area after it is over. If Shearer is doing motd he will go nuts over that.


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 16, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No idea why joelinton is still getting a game. Surely there is someone else in the u'23 team or whatever teams call the reserves now who is worth giving a go. How can they be worse? If they aren't better than him then frankly they have no future in the PL anyway and should be moved on. Did you see the incident in the first half where Saint Maximan did a fabulous run, passes a number of defenders, looks to pass, joelinton is nowhere near the box, so he has to shoot, he has run out of pitch? Joelinto eventually comes into shot, just ambling to the edge of the area after it is over. If Shearer is doing motd he will go nuts over that.
		
Click to expand...

Yep I saw it and commented to HID at the time. He barely jogged to get up the pitch and if he had bothered could have had a tap in.


----------



## need_my_wedge (Feb 16, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Should be safe now!
		
Click to expand...

nice to have a win without conceding


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 16, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No idea why joelinton is still getting a game. Surely there is someone else in the u'23 team or whatever teams call the reserves now who is worth giving a go. How can they be worse? If they aren't better than him then frankly they have no future in the PL anyway and should be moved on. Did you see the incident in the first half where Saint Maximan did a fabulous run, passes a number of defenders, looks to pass, joelinton is nowhere near the box, so he has to shoot, he has run out of pitch? Joelinto eventually comes into shot, just ambling to the edge of the area after it is over. If Shearer is doing motd he will go nuts over that.
		
Click to expand...

I don't know how Joelinton gets a game either as he's been poor whenever I've seen him but in reality how much depth do you have and would playing a youngster from the U23 not be a risk? Thought Newcastle were poor today and only one win in the last five. I can't see Toon getting sucked into a relegation battle but yet another mid-table season with nothing to play for.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 16, 2020)

Watching MOTD2 and how good a keeper is Reina still at 37?

What is the forum opinion on Grealish? Does he need to move on now to somewhere like Arsenal to improve or is he as good as he's likely to get and is the England talk vastly over hyped


----------



## Wolf (Feb 16, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Watching MOTD2 and how good a keeper is Reina still at 37?

What is the forum opinion on Grealish? Does he need to move on now to somewhere like Arsenal to improve or is he as good as he's likely to get and is the England talk vastly over hyped
		
Click to expand...

Grealish is a superb little player in a team that isn't at the same level he is. He's been a good honorable servant to Villa now time to move on. Happily have him at arsenal next season and in Englands squad


----------



## fundy (Feb 16, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Watching MOTD2 and how good a keeper is Reina still at 37?

What is the forum opinion on Grealish? Does he need to move on now to somewhere like Arsenal to improve or is he as good as he's likely to get and is the England talk vastly over hyped
		
Click to expand...


would love him at Arsenal, sadly he'll be priced out of of our range when he moves on in the summer. Should be in Englands side too


----------



## fundy (Feb 16, 2020)

Being reported Marega of Porto was racially abused tonight in their game. When he complained and tried to leave the pitch, his own team mates tried to stop him leaving the pitch and the ref booked him!!!

https://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=28717685

His post match statement

Marega's statement: "To those idiots that go to the stadium to racially abuse people, go f*** yourselves. I'm also grateful to the referee for not defending me & for giving me a yellow card for defending my skin colour. I hope I never see you on a pitch again. You're a disgrace."


----------



## Wolf (Feb 16, 2020)

fundy said:



			Being reported Marega of Porto was racially abused tonight in their game. When he complained and tried to leave the pitch, his own team mates tried to stop him leaving the pitch and the ref booked him!!!

https://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=28717685

His post match statement

Marega's statement: "To those idiots that go to the stadium to racially abuse people, go f*** yourselves. I'm also grateful to the referee for not defending me & for giving me a yellow card for defending my skin colour. I hope I never see you on a pitch again. You're a disgrace."
		
Click to expand...

Just seen a video of the incident on twitter. Horrendous his team mates were literally hanging off him to stop him leaving the pitch, at one stage the camera pans to Porto GK who does the crazy pointing to head thing towards Marega. Absolute disgraceful behaviour by fans, the Porto players and referee.


----------



## fundy (Feb 16, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Just seen a video of the incident on twitter. Horrendous his team mates were literally hanging off him to stop him leaving the pitch, at one stage the camera pans to Porto GK who does the crazy pointing to head thing towards Marega. Absolute disgraceful behaviour by fans, the Porto players and referee.
		
Click to expand...

yeah been watching a few videos of it, utterly embarrassing. Some of his team mates especially need to take a good look at themselves


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 17, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I don't know how Joelinton gets a game either as he's been poor whenever I've seen him but in reality how much depth do you have and would playing a youngster from the U23 not be a risk? Thought Newcastle were poor today and only one win in the last five. I can't see Toon getting sucked into a relegation battle but yet another mid-table season with nothing to play for.
		
Click to expand...

I don't see how there is a risk. They are playing with 10 men anyway right now, how could a change damage the team? No idea about the depth or alternatives but surely they have someone.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 17, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't see how there is a risk. They are playing with 10 men anyway right now, how could a change damage the team? No idea about the depth or alternatives but surely they have someone.
		
Click to expand...

If someone isn't putting it in (I guess similar to the Ozil issue at Arsenal) then it makes sense to try something different but isn't there also an argument that the manage needs to get hold of the player and find a way to get him back playing well or is this more to do with the player or club deciding they don't want the player to be there


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



*Of course we do, otherwise what is the point of having wealthy owners?*
They have soaked millions out of the club in interest payments and made a fortune selling Upton Park...people criticise Mike Ashley but all the money he put into Newcastle was interest free.
Personally if we go down and the owners lose a packet I will be highly delighted!... It won’t bother me, I actually enjoy Championship Footy.

Will I miss the delights of watching some preening, over-tattooed household-name throwing himself around like a rag doll in a hurricane to "win" a penalty? No.
Will I miss VAR? Of course not...The club continues. In whatever division they play. I'll still watch. And I'll still support. And I may well enjoy it all the more.
		
Click to expand...

And that was the point I was alluding to when it comes to fans expectations - because fans see their owners as very rich they want them to put that money into the club to buy players - but unless that person is one of the super rich it becomes unsustainable- and that’s one of the reasons why FFP was started. 

An owner can dip into his pocket and spend £50mil on a player - but what happens when that player doesn’t work out ? Do the fans want the owners to dip in again , then again - these guys are rich for a reason , making smart business choices. I have seen the same with Liverpool fans over the past 5 years - our owners are minted and people expected them to start paying out for players in the same way the Man City owners did - but they said from their start , self sustaining club , can spend whatever the club earns , so if they want to spend more they need to earn more - and that’s the change we have made over the past ten years , smart business choices to allow the manager to spend. 

Football is awash with money and I agree with Pete that some money needs to be spread about a bit more - CL telly money for example could be spread more but there imo needs to be restrictions in place to stop clubs being based on someone’s personal fortune.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Also as Pete said it’s not just about players, ie, the investment in infrastructure etc.

Currently, and with hindsight, FSG deserve some credit, but like any Club you need to have patience and a plan.

Is 2 trophies in 9 years good enough for a club of LPool’s stature, how long would of the fans continued to back them if Klopp hadn’t been appointed etc.

Here’s some figures from the start of this season.

LFC had spent more than any other Club in the previous 4 years.
LFC had the 2nd highest wage bill behind Utd in the PL.
LFC had spent more on agents fees than any other club in the past 5 years.
LFC previously broke the world record for keeper and defender.

FSG have spent and are now getting results. How many other Clubs would wait 10yrs?

FFP can be manipulated, ie, £75mill for VVD on a 5 year contract goes down as £15mill per year towards FFP, or in the Mbappe case £200mill loan none of it on FFP.

There’s more than 1 way to spend money.
		
Click to expand...

The problem for me Paul is football is now a business. Fans are now secondary. What we pay in season tickets, shirts etc is a small part of a big pie. TV money and wealthy owners being larger parts of the pie. As I say it’s a business. How many businesses run on a yearly or seasonal cycle. They run short medium and long term. That’s what City have done, and others. City laid the foundations through sheik mansoor years ago. Now they are self sustainable. The value of the club has gone through the ceiling. However it’s dressed up, football has always been peaks and troughs and from a footballing point of view, I feel City were at the peak last season. Liverpool this. That’s how it is, and hopefully that’s how it will stay.
Looking forward to how this pans out.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Also as Pete said it’s not just about players, ie, the investment in infrastructure etc.
		
Click to expand...

I’m not sure what is referring to in what I posted ? We were talking about players 




			Currently, and with hindsight, FSG deserve some credit, but like any Club you need to have patience and a plan.

Is 2 trophies in 9 years good enough for a club of LPool’s stature, how long would of the fans continued to back them if Klopp hadn’t been appointed etc.
		
Click to expand...

What’s the point in going through “IF’s” - maybe it’s better to look at what has happened - they haven’t been perfect and no one has suggested as such but they have learned from mistakes they made both in terms of recruitment and commercial and right now they are moving forward as each season goes by - all fans would love more trophies but I’m not going to complain right now when I see what they are doing with the club . 




			Here’s some figures from the start of this season.

LFC had spent more than any other Club in the previous 4 years.
LFC had the 2nd highest wage bill behind Utd in the PL.
LFC had spent more on agents fees than any other club in the past 5 years.
LFC previously broke the world record for keeper and defender.
		
Click to expand...

All done within the clubs self sustaining budget through player sales , increased commercial and matchday revenue - which was the point being made , the club have money to spend because they have earned the money as opposed to coming from the wallet of the owners 




			FSG have spent and are now getting results. How many other Clubs would wait 10yrs?

FFP can be manipulated, ie, £75mill for VVD on a 5 year contract goes down as £15mill per year towards FFP, or in the Mbappe case £200mill loan none of it on FFP.

There’s more than 1 way to spend money.
		
Click to expand...

Clubs, owners and fans don’t wait that long - they are looking for instant success, they see a club is bought out and then expect the money to go out and the trophies to come in - doesn’t happen in reality 

I’m not sure what point you are making in reagrds the FFP manipulation ?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And that was the point I was alluding to when it comes to fans expectations - because fans see their owners as very rich they want them to put that money into the club to buy players - but unless that person is one of the super rich it becomes unsustainable- and that’s one of the reasons why FFP was started.

An owner can dip into his pocket and spend £50mil on a player - but what happens when that player doesn’t work out ? Do the fans want the owners to dip in again , then again - these guys are rich for a reason , making smart business choices. I have seen the same with Liverpool fans over the past 5 years - our owners are minted and people expected them to start paying out for players in the same way the Man City owners did - but they said from their start , self sustaining club , can spend whatever the club earns , so if they want to spend more they need to earn more - and that’s the change we have made over the past ten years , smart business choices to allow the manager to spend.

Football is awash with money and I agree with Pete that some money needs to be spread about a bit more - CL telly money for example could be spread more but there imo needs to be restrictions in place to stop clubs being based on someone’s personal fortune.
		
Click to expand...

Also as Pete said it’s not just about players, ie, the investment in infrastructure etc.

Currently, and with hindsight, FSG deserve some credit, but like any Club you need to have patience and a plan.

Is 2 trophies in 9 years good enough for a club of LPool’s stature, how long would of the fans continued to back them if Klopp hadn’t been appointed etc.

Here’s some figures from the start of this season.

LFC had spent more than any other Club in the previous 4 years.
LFC had the 2nd highest wage bill behind Utd in the PL.
LFC had spent more on agents fees than any other club in the past 5 years.
LFC previously broke the world record for keeper and defender.

FSG have spent and are now getting results. How many other Clubs would wait 10yrs?

FFP can be manipulated, ie, £75mill for VVD on a 5 year contract goes down as £15mill per year towards FFP, or in the Mbappe case £200mill loan none of it on FFP.

There’s more than 1 way to spend money.


----------



## PieMan (Feb 17, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			What is the forum opinion on Grealish? Does he need to move on now to somewhere like Arsenal to improve or is he as good as he's likely to get and is the England talk vastly over hyped
		
Click to expand...

No Grealish should be setting his sights higher than Arsenal and play for a good team. As such he'd be a perfect fit for Wolves or Sheffield United..............


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I’m not sure what is referring to in what I posted ? We were talking about players



What’s the point in going through “IF’s” - maybe it’s better to look at what has happened - they haven’t been perfect and no one has suggested as such but they have learned from mistakes they made both in terms of recruitment and commercial and right now they are moving forward as each season goes by - all fans would love more trophies but I’m not going to complain right now when I see what they are doing with the club .



All done within the clubs self sustaining budget through player sales , increased commercial and matchday revenue - which was the point being made , the club have money to spend because they have earned the money as opposed to coming from the wallet of the owners



Clubs, owners and fans don’t wait that long - they are looking for instant success, they see a club is bought out and then expect the money to go out and the trophies to come in - doesn’t happen in reality

I’m not sure what point you are making in reagrds the FFP manipulation ?
		
Click to expand...

The point I’m trying to make is City are getting stick for doing it one way, yet it’s brought them success.

LPool have done it another way and are on the possible verge of that success.

FFP is deciding one way is better than the other, but why should it?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 17, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			The problem for me Paul is football is now a business. Fans are now secondary. What we pay in season tickets, shirts etc is a small part of a big pie. TV money and wealthy owners being larger parts of the pie. As I say it’s a business. How many businesses run on a yearly or seasonal cycle. They run short medium and long term. That’s what City have done, and others. City laid the foundations through sheik mansoor years ago. Now they are self sustainable. The value of the club has gone through the ceiling. However it’s dressed up, football has always been peaks and troughs and from a footballing point of view, I feel City were at the peak last season. Liverpool this. That’s how it is, and hopefully that’s how it will stay.
Looking forward to how this pans out.
		
Click to expand...

And as I said yesterday, my heart prefers the sport side and me head says it’s business.
FIFA/UEFA are not allowing Clubs(Business) the opportunity to spend there own money as they fit.
I’m not clued up on the business side of life, but isn’t that a form of restriction of trade?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 17, 2020)

PieMan said:



			No Grealish should be setting his sights higher than Arsenal and play for a good team. As such he'd be a perfect fit for Wolves or Sheffield United..............

Click to expand...

Would like to see him in a Liverpool shirt .
Robbo ,Grealish ,Mane down the left side would be scary.
He might get in Robbo way possibly but sure Klopp could sort it out.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 17, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			If someone isn't putting it in (I guess similar to the Ozil issue at Arsenal) then it makes sense to try something different but isn't there also an argument that the manage needs to get hold of the player and find a way to get him back playing well or is this more to do with the player or club deciding they don't want the player to be there
		
Click to expand...

How long do you give a player though? He has played 26 PL games this seaon, scored 1 goal, 2 assists. There reaches a point where you have to give him the tug for the best of the team. Maybe a spell on the bench, coming on as sub, will give him the kick he needs. 1 goal and 2 assists is not giving the team anything though, is it? Not if that is from your main man up front.

Incidentally, Newcastle are a poor team going forward, the CF is pretty isolated, so I know it is a tough job that he has. I just don't see him giving anything at the moment, poor hold up, poor lay offs, no goals, no killer through passes. He is just a passenger.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 17, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't see how there is a risk. They are playing with 10 men anyway right now, how could a change damage the team? No idea about the depth or alternatives but surely they have someone.
		
Click to expand...

I won't defend him too much because he has been pretty poor, but you also have to look at Bruce who's playing 5-4-1 or 4-5-1 even on winnable home games. Joelinton hasn't had much to work with, they need someone who can create something out of nothing with that system, and he isn't quite the man for that job.

On Grealish - it took me a long time to warm to him but I have to admit he's a very tidy creative midfield player. I wouldn't mind seeing him start a few games for England and see what he can give us - creative CMs is something we've lacked for a few years.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 17, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How long do you give a player though? He has played 26 PL games this seaon, scored 1 goal, 2 assists. There reaches a point where you have to give him the tug for the best of the team. Maybe a spell on the bench, coming on as sub, will give him the kick he needs. 1 goal and 2 assists is not giving the team anything though, is it? Not if that is from your main man up front.

Incidentally, Newcastle are a poor team going forward, the CF is pretty isolated, so I know it is a tough job that he has. I just don't see him giving anything at the moment, poor hold up, poor lay offs, no goals, no killer through passes. He is just a passenger.
		
Click to expand...

Stats definitely indicate he's a passenger but how much blame lies at Bruce's door with the way he's setting sides up and unless he changes formation or approach won't the next guy have the same problems in terms of service and lack of opportunity to create.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The point I’m trying to make is City are getting stick for doing it one way, yet it’s brought them success.

LPool have done it another way and are on the possible verge of that success.

FFP is deciding one way is better than the other, but why should it?
		
Click to expand...

City have got stick because they are at the mercy of one personal and his fortune and many have suspected they have been circumvented the rules to do it. 

Why should FFP decide rbe way to go - because that’s what the authorities have decided is the way to go to help protect clubs and the sport. I agree with it and believe clubs should be self sustaining with tolerances for losses etc


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The point I’m trying to make is City are getting stick for doing it one way, yet it’s brought them success.

LPool have done it another way and are on the possible verge of that success.

FFP is deciding one way is better than the other, but why should it?
		
Click to expand...

Of course its brought them success they have regularly outspent clubs over the last 10 years, the vast majority out of the owner;s pockets, not the club's, and illegally to boot.

LFC had spent more than any other Club in the previous 4 years.  - We all know that taken in isolation, it can be a skewed figure - why not also insert the line about Jurgen only building a team on a nett. spend of 20m a year since he's been there?

if you sell Lukaku for say 100 million, then buy 2-3 players for 100 million - it may make you a big spender, but not based on the fact that you have lost a very good player, and you have to replace him, sometimes not like-for-like either.

We sold Coutinho, who has been world class for 18 months before, but we replaced him with 2 world class players(luckily). City would have been able to keep the world class player and still sign the other two - therin the difference.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 17, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Stats definitely indicate he's a passenger but how much blame lies at Bruce's door with the way he's setting sides up and unless he changes formation or approach won't the next guy have the same problems in terms of service and lack of opportunity to create.
		
Click to expand...

Definitely doesn't help but I don't see anything there anyway. There are teams such as Burnley who play a similar way to an extent, not as grim, but you see a level of effort from their CF, putting himself about, creating a nuisance etc that Joelinton doesn't even give. If you are not going to score then at least disrupt the centre halves, make their life hard. Calvert Lewin for Everton does this very well and even when he was not scoring last year he offered the team something still. I think he is just a dud buy, I don't see a silver lining for him.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			And as I said yesterday, my heart prefers the sport side and me head says it’s business.
FIFA/UEFA are not allowing Clubs(Business) the opportunity to spend there own money as they fit.
I’m not clued up on the business side of life, but isn’t that a form of restriction of trade?
		
Click to expand...

That’s kinda what I was getting at restriction of trade. There’s something I cannot get my head around. Clubs like Bury go bust. Did FFP protect them. I don’t know. Again I know that football is business. But away from football. Companies go bust. It’s part of life.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 17, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Of course its brought them success they have regularly outspent clubs over the last 10 years, the vast majority out of the owner;s pockets, not the club's, and illegally to boot.

LFC had spent more than any other Club in the previous 4 years.  - We all know that taken in isolation, it can be a skewed figure - why not also insert the line about Jurgen only building a team on a nett. spend of 20m a year since he's been there?

if you sell Lukaku for say 100 million, then buy 2-3 players for 100 million - it may make you a big spender, but not based on the fact that you have lost a very good player, and you have to replace him, sometimes not like-for-like either.

We sold Coutinho, who has been world class for 18 months before, but we replaced him with 2 world class players(luckily). City would have been able to keep the world class player and still sign the other two - therin the difference.
		
Click to expand...

But why shouldn’t an owner spend his money how he wants?
Pre FFP it wasn’t a problem to 99% of the Clubs, so just who does FFP benefit?

Football since it began has had rich and poor Clubs, FFP doesn’t help the poorer Clubs it stifles the rich.

The only Clubs that complain about FFP are those in direct competition to City/PSG/RM etc and I very much doubt they have the interests of the lesser Clubs in their respective leagues at heart.

As an add on(seperate to the discussion), the Coutinho argument is a red herring imo, fact is you’d of bought VVD at a much lower price if the Club had behaved properly, Coutinho may of gone cheaper if he’d of got his way in the summer and if Soton hadn’t of took the money and complained to the PL about the VVD saga yous could of easily got a transfer ban and not had the players you have.

As we’ve agreed in the past, ALL Clubs have pushed the boundaries on the rules over time.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			But why shouldn’t an owner spend his money how he wants?
Pre FFP it wasn’t a problem to 99% of the Clubs, so just who does FFP benefit?

Football since it began has had rich and poor Clubs, FFP doesn’t help the poorer Clubs it stifles the rich.

The only Clubs that complain about FFP are those in direct competition to City/PSG/RM etc and I very much doubt they have the interests of the lesser Clubs in their respective leagues at heart.

As an add on(seperate to the discussion), the Coutinho argument is a red herring imo, fact is you’d of bought VVD at a much lower price if the Club had behaved properly, Coutinho may of gone cheaper if he’d of got his way in the summer and if Soton hadn’t of took the money and complained to the PL about the VVD saga yous could of easily got a transfer ban and not had the players you have.

As we’ve agreed in the past, ALL Clubs have pushed the boundaries on the rules over time.
		
Click to expand...

We're going round in circles.

An owner can spend as much as he wants on infrastructure, stadium etc, they are only limited on losses for the playing squad only. Some agree, some disagree - but I want it to be a sport and not just who spends most. You are saying you want one, but excuse the other.

I agree that it protects the elite clubs clubs to an extent, but it does also protect the game IMO.

However, its not perfect and the next stage for me is to more evenly distribute some of the money.

Why is the Coutinho a red herring, prices change all of the time, and we would have only got VVD for maybe £20 mill cheaper anyway, not 50m cheaper.

Yes, and lots of clubs have been punished for various mis-demeanours, as city are now. If its true, they were brazen, unhelpful with the investigation and so obvious about it, even to the man in the street.  

Maybe your just aligning your arguments for Usmanov's future potential " cash injections"?  I can see the Toffee lady being sponsored for 20 mill a season.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 17, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			We're going round in circles.

An owner can spend as much as he wants on infrastructure, stadium etc, they are only limited on losses for the playing squad only. Some agree, some disagree - but I want it to be a sport and not just who spends most. You are saying you want one, but excuse the other.

I agree that it protects the elite clubs clubs to an extent, but it does also protect the game IMO.

However, its not perfect and the next stage for me is to more evenly distribute some of the money.

Why is the Coutinho a red herring, prices change all of the time, and we would have only got VVD for maybe £20 mill cheaper anyway, not 50m cheaper.

Yes, and lots of clubs have been punished for various mis-demeanours, as city are now. If its true, they were brazen, unhelpful with the investigation and so obvious about it, even to the man in the street. 

Maybe your just aligning your arguments for Usmanov's future potential " cash injections"?  I can see the Toffee lady being sponsored for 20 mill a season.
		
Click to expand...

What I mean about the Coutinho red herring is how it is dragged out by Reds (not you) as some sort of proof how yous have done good business in the “Nett transfer table” 
It wasn’t planned to buy those 2 by selling Coutinho, if anything Klopp wanted VVD and Coutinho in the same side, circumstances led to it falling that way but some use it as proof of a tactical masterplan by FSG and Klopp.

As for our future, I’ll have no sympathy if we fall foul, we’ve no excuses not to comply.


----------



## pendodave (Feb 17, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			but I want it to be a sport and not just who spends most.
		
Click to expand...

The trouble is, FFP doesn't address this. Money spent has never been a better predictor of success than now. FFP just wants to make sure that only existing 'big clubs' can spend it, none of these nasty upstarts...
This is not intended as supporting CIty per se (I abhor their sportswashing raison d'etre), or a vested interest in my own club (who are shocking whichever way you slice it). It's just a statement of the obvious.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			What I mean about the Coutinho red herring is how it is dragged out by Reds (not you) as some sort of proof how yous have done good business in the “Nett transfer table”
It wasn’t planned to buy those 2 by selling Coutinho, if anything Klopp wanted VVD and Coutinho in the same side, circumstances led to it falling that way but some use it as proof of a tactical masterplan by FSG and Klopp.

As for our future, I’ll have no sympathy if we fall foul, we’ve no excuses not to comply.

Click to expand...

Can only deal in facts - Coutinho was looking too leave , the club looked to get as much as they can and with that money they were able strengthen the team - how can that not been seen as good business ? 

The club were able to purchase players to strengthen the squad by Using money from players sales - who knows what Klopp plans were the next summer after Coutinho left but they went and used the money well. 

We have been able to strengthened the squad to allow us to challenge for the major trophies without breaking the bank or dipping into personal fortunes - good sound football business 


pendodave said:



			The trouble is, FFP doesn't address this. Money spent has never been a better predictor of success than now. FFP just wants to make sure that only existing 'big clubs' can spend it, none of these nasty upstarts...
This is not intended as supporting CIty per se (I abhor their sportswashing raison d'etre), or a vested interest in my own club (who are shocking whichever way you slice it). It's just a statement of the obvious.
		
Click to expand...

Each team sport has some sort of financial restrictions in place - spending and wage caps etc 

I don’t think anything that would be put in place will be perfect but at least with FFP it’s trying to ensure clubs are financially safe and forcing clubs to be smarter with their purchases etc 

If there isn’t FFP in place what could replace it ? A wage cap maybe ?

I don’t know - I just don’t think someone should be able to just go mad with money because it would then come down to who has the richest owner


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can only deal in facts - Coutinho was looking too leave , the club looked to get as much as they can and with that money they were able strengthen the team - how can that not been seen as good business ?

The club were able to purchase players to strengthen the squad by Using money from players sales - who knows what Klopp plans were the next summer after Coutinho left but they went and used the money well.

We have been able to strengthened the squad to allow us to challenge for the major trophies without breaking the bank or dipping into personal fortunes - good sound football business


Each team sport has some sort of financial restrictions in place - spending and wage caps etc

I don’t think anything that would be put in place will be perfect but at least with FFP it’s trying to ensure clubs are financially safe and forcing clubs to be smarter with their purchases etc

If there isn’t FFP in place what could replace it ? A wage cap maybe ?

I don’t know - I just don’t think someone should be able to just go mad with money because it would then come down to who has the richest owner
		
Click to expand...

Pete, I’m not criticising how you’ve spent or who on, some just see it as 2 + 2 = 4, when in reality it wasn’t that simple.
As I put, you’d of bought VVD regardless of Coutinho going or staying.

Look how well Klopp has got yous playing, now if you read the papers or look at social media yous are linked with all sorts or some of your players are linked to other Clubs.

Do you really believe FSG would ask Klopp to sell before bringing anyone in? That would be madness!
Strengthening and replacing are 2 entirely different elements as you know.


----------



## GB72 (Feb 17, 2020)

FFP does confuse me somewhat in that I am not sure that I understand why it is there. Is it to stop clubs spending beyond their means and thus prevent clubs going bust. Firstly, it has clearly not done that and, furthermore, if wealthy owners want to inject cash then that is not spending beyond your means. 

Is the basis then to give some degree of parity in spending. Clearly that cannot work. All that it would ever do is allow the biggest clubs to become bigger and keep winning and their global revenue is greater whilst preventing smaller clubs growing by buying bigger names and increasing their recognition around the world. Parity can only come by either capping the spend on salaries or, like I believe is the case with the NFL, dividing all revenue equally including from merchandising. 

In this case, I have a small degree of sympathy with Man City and some of what they say about trying to break into a cartel. On a global scale, they were a small club. Through buying big names, developing the team and winning things, they have become more of a global brand and so have increased revenue and so can spend more but how do you increase your revenue and global recognition without first being allowed to spend. How does a small club become big enough to challenge the established names in a generation that does not think football existed before the premier league when they are only allowed to spend a fraction of what the big clubs can spend even if their owner has pockets deep enough to bankroll it.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 17, 2020)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51528427

good read re FFP if anyone is interested. If that does pan out don’t think this will be sorted next week. Could well be next decade 🤔


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 17, 2020)

GB72 said:



			FFP does confuse me somewhat in that I am not sure that I understand why it is there. *Is it to stop clubs spending beyond their means and thus prevent clubs going bust*. Firstly, it has clearly not done that and, furthermore, if wealthy owners want to inject cash then that is not spending beyond your means.

Is the basis then to give some degree of parity in spending. Clearly that cannot work. All that it would ever do is allow the biggest clubs to become bigger and keep winning and their global revenue is greater whilst preventing smaller clubs growing by buying bigger names and increasing their recognition around the world. Parity can only come by either capping the spend on salaries or, like I believe is the case with the NFL, dividing all revenue equally including from merchandising.

In this case, I have a small degree of sympathy with Man City and some of what they say about trying to break into a cartel. On a global scale, they were a small club. Through buying big names, developing the team and winning things, they have become more of a global brand and so have increased revenue and so can spend more but how do you increase your revenue and global recognition without first being allowed to spend. How does a small club become big enough to challenge the established names in a generation that does not think football existed before the premier league when they are only allowed to spend a fraction of what the big clubs can spend even if their owner has pockets deep enough to bankroll it.
		
Click to expand...

My understanding was that it was initally for this reason. As you say though, it has not worked and it largely protects the existing top team cartels. Only the ones that are seriously mismanaged on the pitch, AC Milan and potentially Utd, leave this group. Otherwise FFP prevents others from entering. The only ones who seem to really demand it, clubs and fans, are those in the cartel. The rest of us don't care and quite enjoy it when a new boy comes along and upsets the apple cart, whoever they may be.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 17, 2020)

GB72 said:



			FFP does confuse me somewhat in that I am not sure that I understand why it is there. Is it to stop clubs spending beyond their means and thus prevent clubs going bust. Firstly, it has clearly not done that and, furthermore, if wealthy owners want to inject cash then that is not spending beyond your means.

Is the basis then to give some degree of parity in spending. Clearly that cannot work. All that it would ever do is allow the biggest clubs to become bigger and keep winning and their global revenue is greater whilst preventing smaller clubs growing by buying bigger names and increasing their recognition around the world. Parity can only come by either capping the spend on salaries or, like I believe is the case with the NFL, dividing all revenue equally including from merchandising.

In this case, I have a small degree of sympathy with Man City and some of what they say about trying to break into a cartel. On a global scale, they were a small club. Through buying big names, developing the team and winning things, they have become more of a global brand and so have increased revenue and so can spend more but how do you increase your revenue and global recognition without first being allowed to spend. How does a small club become big enough to challenge the established names in a generation that does not think football existed before the premier league when they are only allowed to spend a fraction of what the big clubs can spend even if their owner has pockets deep enough to bankroll it.
		
Click to expand...

Good write up GB.
City in the early years ( Of Mansoor ) bought players City fans could only dream of. Robinho, Aguero, Silva etc etc. But they payed over the odds for them. Purely to get them to City. That went on for a fair few seasons. When it was mentioned that FFP was being brought in for ? 2011 Season. City went mad spending money. In essence they had no choice. FFP was coming in and they needed to be knocking on the top table before then. 
Over the last couple of seasons, City’s transfer strategy has changed somewhat. The days of paying over the odds or being held to ransom for players has all but gone. City were interested in both VVD and Maguire.  But pulled out of both Due to the transfer valuation. VVD with hindsight was a steal. 
The thing re City as a club and global brand, since Mansoor bought City in 2008 for £210 million. November of last year the business was valued at £4.8 Billion. However you dress it up. that is some serious business. Business that has been done within ( and I use that term very loosely) under the financial constraints of FFP.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 17, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			My understanding was that it was initally for this reason. As you say though, it has not worked and it largely protects the existing top team cartels. Only the ones that are seriously mismanaged on the pitch, AC Milan and potentially Utd, leave this group. Otherwise FFP prevents others from entering. The only ones who seem to really demand it, clubs and fans, are those in the cartel. The rest of us don't care and quite enjoy it when a new boy comes along and upsets the apple cart, whoever they may be.
		
Click to expand...

LT,
When doing me last post there’s a good read up on Wikipedia re FFP. Platini 😖 states that 50 % of clubs have over spent. Still not saved clubs from going bust though. ☹️


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2020)

GB72 said:



			FFP does confuse me somewhat in that I am not sure that I understand why it is there. Is it to stop clubs spending beyond their means and thus prevent clubs going bust. Firstly, it has clearly not done that and, furthermore, if wealthy owners want to inject cash then that is not spending beyond your means.
		
Click to expand...

FFP still allows clubs to run at a loss to a certain level 

Clubs like Bolton suffered because there was no FFP early stages - they suffered with the level of wages they paid without bringing the finances to support it 

Portsmouth got loans from their owner and then couldn’t pay them back and suffered 

Since FFP has arrived within the Prem and also some level lower down if clubs stick to it should ensure they don’t hit financial difficulties 

Injecting cash is allowed again on some areas within the football club - for example into training grounds to help develop the players or stadiums to try and increase rbe commercial revenue 




			Is the basis then to give some degree of parity in spending. Clearly that cannot work. All that it would ever do is allow the biggest clubs to become bigger and keep winning and their global revenue is greater whilst preventing smaller clubs growing by buying bigger names and increasing their recognition around the world. Parity can only come by either capping the spend on salaries or, like I believe is the case with the NFL, dividing all revenue equally including from merchandising.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t think sport and certainly football can follow the model they have within the NFL etc - should Bournemouth for example get a share of the money that Man Utd generate through shirts sales ? I don’t think so - football is become a competitive business on and off the field. 




			In this case, I have a small degree of sympathy with Man City and some of what they say about trying to break into a cartel. On a global scale, they were a small club. Through buying big names, developing the team and winning things, they have become more of a global brand and so have increased revenue and so can spend more but how do you increase your revenue and global recognition without first being allowed to spend. How does a small club become big enough to challenge the established names in a generation that does not think football existed before the premier league when they are only allowed to spend a fraction of what the big clubs can spend even if their owner has pockets deep enough to bankroll it.
		
Click to expand...

Owners can still bankroll teams but it’s at a level that is trying to ensure the teams are more financially aware 

Football teams should be able to have the mix - develop their players , bringing youngsters through and supplement them with purchases - It all changed when Abramovich arrived then Mansour - it was just buy buy buy - spend £50 mil on a cb , if that didn’t work out , spend another £50 mil , etc etc - so it was all about who has the biggest purse - City and Chelsea got their success through the funding as opposed to through the footballing means.

It’s trying to find a balance between the two - I don’t think there is ever a right answer beyond maybe a salary cap ?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			What I mean about the Coutinho red herring is how it is dragged out by Reds (not you) as some sort of proof how yous have done good business in the “Nett transfer table”
It wasn’t planned to buy those 2 by selling Coutinho, if anything Klopp wanted VVD and Coutinho in the same side, circumstances led to it falling that way but some use it as proof of a tactical masterplan by FSG and Klopp.

As for our future, I’ll have no sympathy if we fall foul, we’ve no excuses not to comply.

Click to expand...

I dont blame them for "dragging it out".

Club recruitment is sometimes planned years, months in advance, but also reactionary as well (especially in the transfer window).

Do you not think that we will have 5-25 options for each position scouted, just in case someone has a bad injury, loss of form, is tempted elsewhere? I wouldnt think it would just be LFC either, BTW.

Having the money to do anything about them is another matter though, and once the windfall came for Coutinho, we has the money spent already on 2 targets that were overdue, especially in the keeper dept.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 17, 2020)

pendodave said:



			The trouble is, FFP doesn't address this. Money spent has never been a better predictor of success than now. FFP just wants to make sure that only existing 'big clubs' can spend it, none of these nasty upstarts...
This is not intended as supporting CIty per se (I abhor their sportswashing raison d'etre), or a vested interest in my own club (who are shocking whichever way you slice it). It's just a statement of the obvious.
		
Click to expand...

Ok we could dispense with FFP then, and maybe split the telly money down the lines of the TV watch figures, which really equates to the big clubs getting the bigger share of the pie then and to hell with Bournemouth and Norwich...........is that fairer than an FFP system?

# I'm not advocating that BTW.


----------



## PieMan (Feb 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Football teams should be able to have the mix - develop their players , bringing youngsters through and supplement them with purchases - It all changed when Abramovich arrived then Mansour - it was just buy buy buy - spend £50 mil on a cb , if that didn’t work out , spend another £50 mil , etc etc - so it was all about who has the biggest purse - City and Chelsea got their success through the funding as opposed to through the footballing means.

It’s trying to find a balance between the two - I don’t think there is ever a right answer beyond maybe a salary cap ?
		
Click to expand...

I can totally see where you're coming from here Phil, but let's face it football has always been about who has the biggest purse. I cannot remember the last time a team was consistently winning league titles and domestic cups with a majority of players who had come through the youth system ore reserves. City and Chelsea have taken it to the extreme, but in actual fact are they any different to the great Liverpool teams of the late 70s to mid 80s; or the great Man Utd teams under Ferguson purchasing great British or Foreign players? Yes the sums of money spent on these players are vastly different, but the principle is exactly the same - buy the best you believe will strengthen your team.

When Liverpool and United were dominating English football everyone wanted to play for them when the managers/Chairmen came calling. All the top players want to play for the clubs that are successful. Some signings worked out; some didn't. What happened to those that didn't? They were sold on; and replacements brought in that - again - were paid for.

I was a ball-boy at Stamford Bridge the day Liverpool clinched the title in the 85/86 season and the Liverpool team that day I believe did not contain one player that came through the youth team. So all were purchased. Therefore we could argue that Liverpool side was in fact worse than the Chelsea side of 04/05 under Mourinho as we had JT in the side who had come through the youth ranks!! 

But I agree with you in that there should be a balance between the two. And there won't ever be a salary cap in English football as the clubs and owners are now too powerful. If the PL went to all the clubs and said "salary cap" then the owners will just turn round and say "No thanks. European Super League. See you later". Jimmy Hill's lasting legacy to the game!!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			FFP still allows clubs to run at a loss to a certain level

Clubs like Bolton suffered because there was no FFP early stages - they suffered with the level of wages they paid without bringing the finances to support it

Portsmouth got loans from their owner and then couldn’t pay them back and suffered

Since FFP has arrived within the Prem and also some level lower down if clubs stick to it should ensure they don’t hit financial difficulties

Injecting cash is allowed again on some areas within the football club - for example into training grounds to help develop the players or stadiums to try and increase rbe commercial revenue



I don’t think sport and certainly football can follow the model they have within the NFL etc - should Bournemouth for example get a share of the money that Man Utd generate through shirts sales ? I don’t think so - football is become a competitive business on and off the field.



Owners can still bankroll teams but it’s at a level that is trying to ensure the teams are more financially aware

Football teams should be able to have the mix - develop their players , bringing youngsters through and supplement them with purchases - It all changed when Abramovich arrived then Mansour - it was just buy buy buy - spend £50 mil on a cb , if that didn’t work out , spend another £50 mil , etc etc - so it was all about who has the biggest purse - City and Chelsea got their success through the funding as opposed to through the footballing means.

It’s trying to find a balance between the two - I don’t think there is ever a right answer beyond maybe a salary cap ?
		
Click to expand...

How many youngsters have you brought through under FSG? I agree you haven’t spent the same as others but let’s not pretend you’ve not bought, bought bought as well.

Prior to Klopp you wasted money and even he has had millions to spend.

Trust me, as a blue I know all about wasting money.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2020)

PieMan said:



			I can totally see where you're coming from here Phil, but let's face it football has always been about who has the biggest purse. I cannot remember the last time a team was consistently winning league titles and domestic cups with a majority of players who had come through the youth system ore reserves. City and Chelsea have taken it to the extreme, but in actual fact are they any different to the great Liverpool teams of the late 70s to mid 80s; or the great Man Utd teams under Ferguson purchasing great British or Foreign players? Yes the sums of money spent on these players are vastly different, but the principle is exactly the same - buy the best you believe will strengthen your team.

When Liverpool and United were dominating English football everyone wanted to play for them when the managers/Chairmen came calling. All the top players want to play for the clubs that are successful. Some signings worked out; some didn't. What happened to those that didn't? They were sold on; and replacements brought in that - again - were paid for.
		
Click to expand...

Great Post

I think though there are a few subtle differences between the way teams built up in the 70’s and 80’s - even when we were at the top it was rare for us to spend big ( for that period in time ) UTD and a few others were spending more - I think our biggest signing in that 85/86 side was pretty much the manager , but in a period where clubs were breaking the £1mil barrier we weren’t - players were sourced from good scouting etc and then team stuck with players for a considerable period of time. But even when UTD were spending most of the time the money was gained through the success of the club

When Chelsea arrived it was like opening Aladdin’s cave - buying multiple players at a time for millions each time , if one didn’t work out , sold at a loss then another arrives - no cheap gems , no players arriving at a young age and then built up - it was more the instant success funded by money. Chelsea have now gone through that and I suspect are a club who live through their own money made - City and PSG took that to another level - PSG even more so £400mil on two players alone !.

Some people don’t mind it - I’m not a fan of it , I prefer for clubs to be able to build a base and then look for success , more sustainable




			I was a ball-boy at Stamford Bridge the day Liverpool clinched the title in the 85/86 season and the Liverpool team that day I believe did not contain one player that came through the youth team. So all were purchased. Therefore we could argue that Liverpool side was in fact worse than the Chelsea side of 04/05 under Mourinho as we had JT in the side who had come through the youth ranks!! 

But I agree with you in that there should be a balance between the two. And there won't ever be a salary cap in English football as the clubs and owners are now too powerful. If the PL went to all the clubs and said "salary cap" then the owners will just turn round and say "No thanks. European Super League. See you later". Jimmy Hill's lasting legacy to the game!!
		
Click to expand...

I think the only two in squad that season were Ablett and Lee ? But don’t think they played too much - certainly was a mixed back of players with I don’t believe any player bought from a rival ?

And yes you are right about clubs just picking up their toys and leaving if they apply a salary cap - the clubs have the power now


----------



## adam6177 (Feb 17, 2020)

Looking forward to the game tonight... Trying to pick who I want to win is like asking me which STI I'd prefer to have.  So let's hope for an entertaining 3-3 draw.


----------



## Slime (Feb 17, 2020)

Maguire maybe a bit fortunate there ................... I think.


----------



## fundy (Feb 17, 2020)

nice to know kicking someone in the balls isnt violent conduct


----------



## adam6177 (Feb 17, 2020)

Slime said:



			Maguire maybe a bit fortunate there ................... I think.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely, again I wonder what the hell VAR does.... 1mm offside.... Yep all good we'll get involved, yet an incident like that- nothing.


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 17, 2020)

How is that not violent conduct? Deliberate kick in the delicates!


----------



## fundy (Feb 17, 2020)

Taylors having a laugh isnt he tonight


----------



## Slime (Feb 17, 2020)

Nice dive by Willian, and not for the first time.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2020)

Taylor is awful - how that wasn’t a red card for Maguire I don’t know , and then that’s never a dive from Willian -he was caught 

Chelsea playing the better football but lacking any clinical edge - UTD look very disjointed but the one moment of quality gives them the lead 

After seeing Spurs , Arsenal , UTD and Chelsea over the past couple of days you would prob look at Spurs being the team that could go on and grab 4th - Arsenal maybe too far behind and Chelsea and Utd just look short on real quality to give them that a step ahead of the others 

Wolves could be the outsider along with Sheff Utd


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 17, 2020)

Slime said:



			Maguire maybe a bit fortunate there ................... I think.
		
Click to expand...

He did exactly what Son got a red for on Rudiger when we played Chelsea. Yet he doesn't even get a yellow? Wasn't VAR supposed to bring consistency??


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Taylor is awful - how that wasn’t a red card for Maguire I don’t know , and then that’s never a dive from Willian -he was caught

Chelsea playing the better football but lacking any clinical edge - UTD look very disjointed but the one moment of quality gives them the lead

After seeing Spurs , Arsenal , UTD and Chelsea over the past couple of days you would prob look at Spurs being the team that could go on and grab 4th - Arsenal maybe too far behind and Chelsea and Utd just look short on real quality to give them that a step ahead of the others

Wolves could be the outsider along with Sheff Utd
		
Click to expand...

No chance for Everton then Phil? 2nd only to yous in points won since Ancelotti has took over.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 17, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			My understanding was that it was initally for this reason. As you say though, it has not worked and it largely protects the existing top team cartels. Only the ones that are seriously mismanaged on the pitch, AC Milan and potentially Utd, leave this group. Otherwise FFP prevents others from entering. The only ones who seem to really demand it, clubs and fans, are those in the cartel. The rest of us don't care and quite enjoy it when a new boy comes along and upsets the apple cart, whoever they may be.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, but as said again, if you supported a team (lets say Arsenal) who were denied many more league championships due to sugar daddy clubs, would you be as accepting about it. I very much doubt it.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 17, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yep, but as said again, if you supported a team (lets say Arsenal) who were denied many more league championships due to sugar daddy clubs, would you be as accepting about it. I very much doubt it.
		
Click to expand...

Tbf Pete, until fergie left Utd.
There was only one season that a money club actually finished 1st above anyone but Utd.
Imagine they hadn’t come along.
utd would likely be closer to 30 league titles. 

Your point is valid, depending on how your team is affected will determine your thoughts on sugar daddies. Top 4 traditionals tend to not like em and most, not all try and take moral high ground on it not being the right way.....

The rest of us actually appreciate a more even competitive league.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 17, 2020)

PieMan said:



			I can totally see where you're coming from here Phil, but let's face it football has always been about who has the biggest purse. I cannot remember the last time a team was consistently winning league titles and domestic cups with a majority of players who had come through the youth system ore reserves. City and Chelsea have taken it to the extreme, but in actual fact are they any different to the great Liverpool teams of the late 70s to mid 80s; or the great Man Utd teams under Ferguson purchasing great British or Foreign players? Yes the sums of money spent on these players are vastly different, but the principle is exactly the same - buy the best you believe will strengthen your team.

When Liverpool and United were dominating English football everyone wanted to play for them when the managers/Chairmen came calling. All the top players want to play for the clubs that are successful. Some signings worked out; some didn't. What happened to those that didn't? They were sold on; and replacements brought in that - again - were paid for.

I was a ball-boy at Stamford Bridge the day Liverpool clinched the title in the 85/86 season and the Liverpool team that day I believe did not contain one player that came through the youth team. So all were purchased. Therefore we could argue that Liverpool side was in fact worse than the Chelsea side of 04/05 under Mourinho as we had JT in the side who had come through the youth ranks!! 

But I agree with you in that there should be a balance between the two. And there won't ever be a salary cap in English football as the clubs and owners are now too powerful. If the PL went to all the clubs and said "salary cap" then the owners will just turn round and say "No thanks. European Super League. See you later". Jimmy Hill's lasting legacy to the game!!
		
Click to expand...

I've replied to this type of post before, and sorry but there is a big difference to what City and Chelsea did, slightly compared to United and more so Liverpool in the 70's and 80's.

United had a great youth set up for a decade of it, so was why they could buy top class players like Van nistelrooy. If they have 6 academy players in the tam, they can pay mega bucks for the other 5, extend that to the squad, as well.

Liverpool did the same, although not as much through the academy, but more buying lower league players from Scunthorpe (Keegan, Clemence, Neal), Motherwell, Ayr United (Nicol), Partick Thistle (Hansen), and many many more. Yes we also bought a Dalglish and Souness (from the Keegan money), a Barnes, Beardsley, Aldridge (from the Rush money) and also many other mid-ranking signings.

Liverpool and United did make many big signings, I dont doubt it, but they had lots of mid-ranking and very cheap signings (or academy graduates as well). The examples between City/Chelsea and Liverpool/United arent even close.  Nowadays United are spending stupid money on crap, but in their heyday, not on the same level.

Just look at City's spending on centre halves and full backs in the last 5 years, Mangala, Savic, Stones, Otamendi, Laporte, Walker, Mendy and probably another 4-5 who have all cost 30-50 million.

BTW I would have been standing behind you in the away end in 1986, didnt know the ballboys were 20 years old?

We didnt have many English, but we had many British - hansen, Lawrenson, Whelan, Rush, Dalglish, Souness, Nicol, Beglin, Lee, Neal, Kennedy,........


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2020)

Well what to make of that - Fred pushes Azpeculetia who then in turn pushes the Utd player do they disallow the goal- so why punish one push but not the other ?

And then Zouma is booked for making a clean tackle ?!?


----------



## Slime (Feb 17, 2020)

Good decision by VAR, glad to see it can be used correctly.


----------



## Fish (Feb 17, 2020)

For me Azspi was pushed into him, he had to put his arms out as he was pushed himself!!  Its not a blatant push at all imo


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 17, 2020)

Zouma should be off for diving in studs up and out of control...


----------



## Fish (Feb 17, 2020)

Slime said:



			Good decision by VAR, glad to see it can be used correctly.
		
Click to expand...

Red goggles


----------



## Slime (Feb 17, 2020)

Fish said:



			Red goggles 

Click to expand...

I borrowed them off ............................. oh, never mind.


----------



## Fish (Feb 17, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Zouma should be off for diving in studs up and out of control...
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Slime (Feb 17, 2020)

Ooooooohhhhhhhhh.


----------



## Slime (Feb 17, 2020)




----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 17, 2020)

Anyone know what Greenwood has done to Ole’s daughter/wife/sister?

heralded as a superstar and looks decent when on, yet doesn’t get a look in behind James, who’s been on dead legs for 3 months.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 17, 2020)

Fish said:





Click to expand...


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 17, 2020)

Shouldn’t be on the pitch! 
Chelsea getting nothing tonight!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2020)

Well that’s a twist - the guy who should have been sent off gets a second goal , can see this kicking off soon

Blimey have UTD brought Webb out of retirement


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 17, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbf Pete, until fergie left Utd.
There was only one season that a money club actually finished 1st above anyone but Utd.
Imagine they hadn’t come along.
utd would likely be closer to 30 league titles.

Your point is valid, depending on how your team is affected will determine your thoughts on sugar daddies. Top 4 traditionals tend to not like em and most, not all try and take moral high ground on it not being the right way.....

The rest of us actually appreciate a more even competitive league.
		
Click to expand...


We'll never know but you could be right, I rarely take anything away from United's success (apart from the ref bias, of course - you couldnt ignore that), different for the other two, though.

You may have had a stronger Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Everton, Newcastle, Leeds (all big clubs in their own right) and maybe even others.


----------



## Slime (Feb 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well that’s a twist - the guy who should have been sent off gets a second goal , can see this kicking off soon
*
Blimey have UTD brought Webb out of retirement*

Click to expand...


----------



## Slime (Feb 17, 2020)

Gotta love VAR, really, you've just got to ................................ sometimes!


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 17, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			We'll never know but you could be right, I rarely take anything away from United's success (apart from the ref bias, of course - you couldnt ignore that), different for the other two, though.

You may have had a stronger Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Everton, Newcastle, Leeds (all big clubs in their own right) and maybe even others.
		
Click to expand...

whilst it’s plausible those above could have been stronger. Realistically, the 10 years prior to the money clubs, arsenal were the only team to win a title with those above spending in most cases *more *than Utd.

I agree about the refs, all the big clubs got helped


----------



## Piece (Feb 17, 2020)

The only thing fishy tonight was the lack of red for Maguire. The rest of the decisions fine. Good to see a nice dive by Willian carded.


----------



## chrisd (Feb 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well what to make of that - Fred pushes Azpeculetia who then in turn pushes the Utd player do they disallow the goal- so why punish one push but not the other ?
		
Click to expand...

They've got flippin VAR and still cant get it right 😣


----------



## Slime (Feb 17, 2020)

chrisd said:



			They've got flippin VAR and still cant get it right 😣
		
Click to expand...

They did.

*"The explanation from Stockley Park is that, in VAR Chris Kavanagh's view, the contact between Fred and Azpilicueta was normal, but Azpilicueta’s push on Williams was different as he put two hands on Williams' back and pushed him, which affected the defender's ability to clear the ball". *

Case closed.


----------



## Fish (Feb 17, 2020)

Piece said:



			The only thing fishy tonight was the lack of red for Maguire. The rest of the decisions fine. Good to see a nice dive by Willian carded.
		
Click to expand...

There's contact with Willian imo as he attempts to hurdle a left out leg, that's a foul in open play, so why not the same on the edge of the penalty area?

There was more intent and a second movement with McGuires leg than Son's, absolutely no consistency shown between those 2 incidents, not even a yellow, but it was a red all day and the game is very different then, especially as he went on to score.


----------



## Fish (Feb 17, 2020)

Slime said:



			They did.

*"The explanation from Stockley Park is that, in VAR Chris Kavanagh's view, the contact between Fred and Azpilicueta was normal, but Azpilicueta’s push on Williams was different as he put two hands on Williams' back and pushed him, which affected the defender's ability to clear the ball". *

Case closed.  

Click to expand...

He put 2 hands out because that's the natural thing to do when you've been pushed into someone, Taylor & Var both rubbish tonight, as McGuire should have walked!!


----------



## Slime (Feb 17, 2020)

Happy with that, Bruno Fernandes is already making a difference.


----------



## chrisd (Feb 17, 2020)

Slime said:



			They did.

*"The explanation from Stockley Park is that, in VAR Chris Kavanagh's view, the contact between Fred and Azpilicueta was normal, but Azpilicueta’s push on Williams was different as he put two hands on Williams' back and pushed him, which affected the defender's ability to clear the ball". *

Case closed.  

Click to expand...

I'm no fan of either club, but believe me Slime, they did definitely not get it right!


----------



## fundy (Feb 17, 2020)

Slime said:



			Happy with that, Bruno Fernandes is already making a difference.
		
Click to expand...


you mispelt Anthony Taylor


----------



## Piece (Feb 17, 2020)

Fish said:



			There's contact with Willian imo as he attempts to hurdle a left out leg, that's a foul in open play, so why not the same on the edge of the penalty area?

There was more intent and a second movement with McGuires leg than Son's, absolutely no consistency shown between those 2 incidents, not even a yellow, but it was a red all day and the game is very different then, especially as he went on to score.
		
Click to expand...

I didnt see any contact but the fact he went down in a diving manner, made it easy for the ref. Perhaps if he watched Son, Deulofeu, Mane and Salah he’d learn how to dive properly 😛😂


----------



## Slime (Feb 17, 2020)

L'pool have just qualified for the ECL. 











You're welcome.


----------



## Fish (Feb 17, 2020)

My red neighbours getting a deposit from Max through the letterbox later tonight


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 17, 2020)

Slime said:



			They did.

*"The explanation from Stockley Park is that, in VAR Chris Kavanagh's view, the contact between Fred and Azpilicueta was normal, but Azpilicueta’s push on Williams was different as he put two hands on Williams' back and pushed him, which affected the defender's ability to clear the ball". *

Case closed.  

Click to expand...

So like the handball rule !
A push by a defenDing player is different than a push by an attacking player!
As long as we know!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2020)

Well VAR was supposed to stop the issues and ensure that the talk isn’t about poor refs but it will be after that 

Maguire should have been sent off - that would have changed the game massively and he then went on and scored 

The first disallowed goal - If it’s against you then you are going to applaud the decision but if you get the goal chalked off then you will feel hard done by when you see that Fred clearly pushes the player first regards of how many hands he had up - in open play that’s a foul , so it should have been a penalty imo 

Second one - it’s going to be disallowed with the way they do offsides this season 

UTD certainly played a lot better second half

all bunched up now - the team that goes on a little run will grab the spot but none of them have managed that this season so far


----------



## davemc1 (Feb 17, 2020)

Do Man U get to keep Chelsea now?


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 17, 2020)

Ighalo missing the first of many sitters no doubt.


----------



## davemc1 (Feb 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well VAR was supposed to stop the issues and ensure that the talk isn’t about poor refs but it will be after that

Maguire should have been sent off - that would have changed the game massively and he then went on and scored

The first disallowed goal - If it’s against you then you are going to applaud the decision but if you get the goal chalked off then you will feel hard done by when you see that Fred clearly pushes the player first regards of how many hands he had up - in open play that’s a foul , so it should have been a penalty imo

Second one - it’s going to be disallowed with the way they do offsides this season

UTD certainly played a lot better second half

all bunched up now - the team that goes on a little run will grab the spot but none of them have managed that this season so far
		
Click to expand...

Second one, the way they do offsides this season? As in he was offside so they called offside 🤷‍♂️ 😆


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Second one, the way they do offsides this season? As in he was offside so they called offside 🤷‍♂️ 😆
		
Click to expand...

😂😂 doesnt read they way it was meant 😂


----------



## Slime (Feb 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			UTD certainly played a lot better second half

all bunched up now - *the team that goes on a little run will grab the spot but none of them have managed that this season so far*

Click to expand...

It was only Bruno's second game for us, give him/United a chance.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2020)

Slime said:



			It was only Bruno's second game for us, give him a chance. 

Click to expand...

? Did he play ? Saw a free kick and then when he threw himself to the floor claiming he was hit in the face - great work for the £50-60mil paid 👍


----------



## Slime (Feb 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			? Did he play ? Saw a free kick and then when he threw himself to the floor claiming he was hit in the face - great work for the £50-60mil paid 👍
		
Click to expand...

You should have watched all of the game, maybe you'd then understand.


----------



## Fish (Feb 17, 2020)

What can I smell


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 17, 2020)

I think United's 38 points should mean the're now safe from the drop.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 17, 2020)

Brilliant from Maguire, “I thought he was going to fall on me so I straightened my leg, I had no intent to hurt him” 

Batshusyi was stood up.
VAR must be able to decide intent now then.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2020)

Slime said:



			You should have watched all of the game, maybe you'd then understand.
		
Click to expand...

I did - you paid a lot of money for someone who isn’t standing out as yet and I don’t really expect him too - i guess we will see over the next couple of months.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 17, 2020)

Slime said:



			You should have watched all of the game, maybe you'd then understand.
		
Click to expand...

Nah. He still wouldn’t.


----------



## Slime (Feb 17, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I did - you paid a lot of money for someone who isn’t standing out as yet and I don’t really expect him too - i guess we will see over the next couple of months.
		
Click to expand...

I guess we will.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 17, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think United's 38 points should mean their now safe from the drop.
		
Click to expand...

We just secured your CL qualification for next year. Bit of gratitude wouldn’t go amiss...


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 17, 2020)

Very good insight from a United fan.

What City did didn't just effect what they did, it also affects the rivals, as per:-

*When the Abu Dhabi money first came in…*
Since Friday’s announcement, I have heard numerous City fans complaining about the very principle of FFP, and how it exists solely to preserve a cabal of elite clubs at the top.  Whilst FFP may be flawed, there is something that needs to be pointed out to City fans and the wider club, something that has been lost in the annals of time.

When the Abu Dhabi money first came in, one of the first things City did was to make moves for the star players of their rivals, namely John Terry at Chelsea and Wayne Rooney at Manchester United, tapping up their respective agents and writing an awful lot of zeros on a napkin (or however these things actually work).  This left Chelsea and United in a predicament; either sell your prized asset to this newly minted rival or renew a contract you otherwise wouldn’t at a massively inflated figure (both chose option 2, giving out the highest contract ever awarded by the club at that time).  From City’s point of view, it was win-win.  You either get a great player, improving your team and weakening a rival, or you negatively impact their finances, and skew their wage budgets massively upwards with all the subsequent knock-on consequences that brings.  They did the same to Arsenal, though in that case the club were more willing sellers owing to their stadium debt and were happy to take the fees offered for the likes of Toure and Adebayor.

The point is, right from the get-go, City were happy to weaponise their money; to use it as a stick to beat their rivals with rather than merely one to enhance themselves (which to an extent is where they differed from Abramovich’s approach).  Football is a business, and not a particularly fair one, but is also still a sport, and in a sport you need competition.  The way City wanted to use their money before FFP would have meant, even more so than it already does, whomever has the deepest pockets wins. FFP may be flawed, but it’s better than the alternative path that City clearly demonstrated they were going to gladly walk down.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 17, 2020)

Really enjoyed watching the MNF last 15 minutes with Keane & Carragher, good fun.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 17, 2020)

Slime said:



			They did.

*"The explanation from Stockley Park is that, in VAR Chris Kavanagh's view, the contact between Fred and Azpilicueta was normal, but Azpilicueta’s push on Williams was different as he put two hands on Williams' back and pushed him, which affected the defender's ability to clear the ball". *

Case closed.  

Click to expand...

That was the way I saw it at the time to be honest. Contact _on_ Azpilicueta was minimal, but then he went for the full two-handed shove on the other chap who would have been heading it clear otherwise. I thought that was the correct decision.


----------



## TheDiablo (Feb 17, 2020)

The one thing I really dont get is the overwhelming 'neutral' commentary on this game has been from Liverpool fans?? 

Neither of these clubs are anywhere near you, and you actively dislike both of them! Why the effing jeffing would you care?


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 18, 2020)

TheDiablo said:



			The one thing I really dont get is the overwhelming 'neutral' commentary on this game has been from Liverpool fans?? 

Neither of these clubs are anywhere near you, and you actively dislike both of them! Why the effing jeffing would you care?
		
Click to expand...

It's a general football thread, are you suggesting because we're not playing, we're not allowed to discuss the game of the day?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 18, 2020)

Bit harsh to moan about Bruno after two games. Plenty of players from all clubs have taken time to bed in before making an impression.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 18, 2020)

TheDiablo said:



			The one thing I really dont get is the overwhelming 'neutral' commentary on this game has been from Liverpool fans??

Neither of these clubs are anywhere near you, and you actively dislike both of them! Why the effing jeffing would you care?
		
Click to expand...

Firstly, I think it was just Phil who was "commentating" - so what, he posts a lot on various subjects, not a lot of Liverpool fans.

So United (historically) and Chelsea over the last 15 years, have also become rivals.

Its a football game, that many other fans were also commentating on, so whats the problem?


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 18, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Bit harsh to moan about Bruno after two games. Plenty of players from all clubs have taken time to bed in before making an impression.
		
Click to expand...

He also assisted the second goal so hardly did nothing 

Good corner


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Bit harsh to moan about Bruno after two games. Plenty of players from all clubs have taken time to bed in before making an impression.
		
Click to expand...

Especially considering he’s been good in both games.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I did - you paid a lot of money for someone who isn’t standing out as yet and I don’t really expect him too - i guess we will see over the next couple of months.
		
Click to expand...

What a surprise 
This is just one of the reasons I believe you talk so much rubbish.
Judging someone after 2 games,2 games of a sport you know very little about unless you google it.
Why don’t you expect him too,just give us a bloody good reason,and a football one not just a biased one.
At least the majority of Liverpool supporters on here talk a lot of sense,and I don’t believe they regard you as a spokesman for all Liverpool supporters.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 18, 2020)

For what it’s worth I thought Maguire should have been sent off.
I actually thought Fred’s push was very minimal but the push on Williams probably stopped him clearing the ball.
Defensively we are getting better keeping clean sheets although last night could have been different as Chelsea had some good chances.
Offside for their goal.
In hindsight I thought Barkley would have been a better sub than Mount.
Can’t understand how Giroud doesn’t get a start.
We are in the mix for 4th something some were predicting wouldn’t be the case.
With very little strength in the league this year 4th is wide open


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 18, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			What a surprise
This is just one of the reasons I believe you talk so much rubbish.
Judging someone after 2 games,2 games of a sport you know very little about unless you google it.
Why don’t you expect him too,just give us a bloody good reason,and a football one not just a biased one.
At least the majority of Liverpool supporters on here talk a lot of sense,and I don’t believe they regard you as a spokesman for all Liverpool supporters.
		
Click to expand...

He really doesn’t do any of the proper fans any favours with his constant trolling.

Imagine if anyone dared to criticize a new Liverpool singing after a couple of games 😳


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 18, 2020)

So say City’s 2 yr Euro ban is enforced, why is it seemed automatic that in the event of them being in the PL top 4, the 5th place club would then qualify?
I seem to remember reading somewhere that if the above happens, the PL would lose that place to another league.
Does anyone actually have a definite answer?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			So say City’s 2 yr Euro ban is enforced, why is it seemed automatic that in the event of them being in the PL top 4, the 5th place club would then qualify?
I seem to remember reading somewhere that if the above happens, the PL would lose that place to another league.
Does anyone actually have a definite answer?
		
Click to expand...

I believe that’s what EUFA announced last week.


----------



## Junior (Feb 18, 2020)

Through my red tinted glasses I was please again with the effort and determination from the players.  Ole seems to have got their hearts pumping for the club which is great,  i'm sure most will agree 0-2 flattered us though.  

On the positive side, Bailly back is huge, if he can stay fit, he'll be crucial to the rest of the season.  Fred had another superb game in midfield and Bruno looked a class above. He's right when he said after the match we need to be better on the ball.  

Re the Maguire red card........I honestly think that the refs need better guidance.  The rules say "excessive force", but how do you define what is excessive ?   He did kick out, and if they are to be consistent (think Sons red card) then it should have been a red.    My own opinion is that footballers are utter pansies and something like that should be a yellow.    

There is talk of Juve offering a dealer Rabiot , Ramsey + cash for Pogba in a deal worth around £125m.   I'd snatch their hand off.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 18, 2020)

https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/18/roy-...de-vs-current-liverpool-team-debate-12258653/ 

So Keano and Carra had another row (all set up by Sky no doubt) this time about a combined line-up between present day Liverpool and 1999's treble winning Man Utd team. It's actually quite difficult to compare due to the different formations and roles of the players, but I'll give it a go:

Schmeichel
Neville Stam VanDijk Irwin
Scholes Keane Giggs
Mane Yorke Salah​


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/18/roy-...de-vs-current-liverpool-team-debate-12258653/

So Keano and Carra had another row (all set up by Sky no doubt) this time about a combined line-up between present day Liverpool and 1999's treble winning Man Utd team. It's actually quite difficult to compare due to the different formations and roles of the players, but I'll give it a go:

Schmeichel
Neville Stam VanDijk Irwin
Scholes Keane Giggs
Mane Yorke Salah​

Click to expand...

It wasn’t a row at all, it was good fun and lighthearted, both made some valid points.

I don’t think it’s fair to compare to be honest, both teams should be respected for how they were in their era.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It wasn’t a row at all, it was good fun and lighthearted, both made some valid points.

I don’t think it’s fair to compare to be honest, both teams should be respected for how they were in their era.
		
Click to expand...

Obviously it's tough to compare but I was trying to be fun and lighthearted as well, lol.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 18, 2020)

Best league in the world with top of the table 25pts clear of the rest...hmmm...best football - maybe - most competitive...less than it was.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Obviously it's tough to compare but I was trying to be fun and lighthearted as well, lol.
		
Click to expand...

Oh sorry, I completely missed it were you said it was fun and lighthearted.

I was answering your link and the supposed row.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It wasn’t a row at all, it was good fun and lighthearted, both made some valid points.

I don’t think it’s fair to compare to be honest, both teams should be respected for how they were in their era.
		
Click to expand...

Keane admitted he was biased/loyal to his ex-players but thought he went too far.

The thing is, a lot of them were or became legends of the game, and you can look back and assess them over their whole career, whilst the likes of some of ours are still young or in the middle of their careers.

If you took it on our guys over the last 12 months and the United team over their 12 months, the likes of Alison, Gomez and Trent may/would probably get in for me. Gomez and clean sheet stats are amazing.

Carragher made a good point over Giggs - only 4 goals, 2 assists that season and Keane had him in over Mane!!!!!

I think Keane, Scholes, Beckham (as a 3) and either or Yorke/cole as the CF are deffoes.

Stam/Gomez - you would side with stam over the career he had, same with Schmeichel/Alison, Robertson/Irwin the same - but in 10 years time you may say the others - who knows.

Mane, Salah, VVD and Trent would be deffoes for me on our side.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Keane admitted he was biased/loyal to his ex-players but thought he went too far.

The thing is, a lot of them were or became legends of the game, and you can look back and assess them over their whole career, whilst the likes of some of ours are still young or in the middle of their careers.

If you took it on our guys over the last 12 months and the United team over their 12 months, the likes of Alison, Gomez and Trent may/would probably get in for me. Gomez and clean sheet stats are amazing.

Carragher made a good point over Giggs - only 4 goals, 2 assists that season and Keane had him in over Mane!!!!!

Click to expand...

It’s a pointless debate comparing the current Liverpool team who have basically been great for 2 years with a team that was great over many years.
Comparing Giggs to Mane is ridiculous for the same reason.
One thing I would say that if some of the Liverpool players are still producing over 10 years at this level it would seriously reduce the number of Utd players in my all time team.
I suppose Sky do these debates to get the public talking and to keep the interest high in football.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Keane admitted he was biased/loyal to his ex-players but thought he went too far.

The thing is, a lot of them were or became legends of the game, and you can look back and assess them over their whole career, whilst the likes of some of ours are still young or in the middle of their careers.

If you took it on our guys over the last 12 months and the United team over their 12 months, the likes of Alison, Gomez and Trent may/would probably get in for me. Gomez and clean sheet stats are amazing.

Carragher made a good point over Giggs - only 4 goals, 2 assists that season and Keane had him in over Mane!!!!!

I think Keane, Scholes, Beckham (as a 3) and either or Yorke/cole as the CF are deffoes.

Stam/Gomez - you would side with stam over the career he had, same with Schmeichel/Alison, Robertson/Irwin the same - but in 10 years time you may say the others - who knows.

Mane, Salah, VVD and Trent would be deffoes for me on our side.
		
Click to expand...

Carragher went for a Chelsea win 
Says it all,he couldn’t pick Utd even if he wanted to.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 18, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			It’s a pointless debate comparing the current Liverpool team who have basically been great for 2 years with a team that was great over many years.
Comparing Giggs to Mane is ridiculous for the same reason.
One thing I would say that if some of the Liverpool players are still producing over 10 years at this level it would seriously reduce the number of Utd players in my all time team.
I suppose Sky do these debates to get the public talking and to keep the interest high in football.
		
Click to expand...

Pointless post, then.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Keane admitted he was biased/loyal to his ex-players but thought he went too far.

The thing is, a lot of them were or became legends of the game, and you can look back and assess them over their whole career, whilst the likes of some of ours are still young or in the middle of their careers.

If you took it on our guys over the last 12 months and the United team over their 12 months, the likes of Alison, Gomez and Trent may/would probably get in for me. Gomez and clean sheet stats are amazing.

*Carragher made a good point over Giggs - only 4 goals, 2 assists that season and Keane had him in over Mane!!!!!*

I think Keane, Scholes, Beckham (as a 3) and either or Yorke/cole as the CF are deffoes.

Stam/Gomez - you would side with stam over the career he had, same with Schmeichel/Alison, Robertson/Irwin the same - but in 10 years time you may say the others - who knows.

Mane, Salah, VVD and Trent would be deffoes for me on our side.
		
Click to expand...

Totally different positions though. Given the formations and positions played, Giggs was a midfielder and Mane is effectively a striker. So you can't compare them on numbers alone. I would find room for both of them anyway, as I did above in my team.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Keane admitted he was biased/loyal to his ex-players but thought he went too far.

The thing is, a lot of them were or became legends of the game, and you can look back and assess them over their whole career, whilst the likes of some of ours are still young or in the middle of their careers.

If you took it on our guys over the last 12 months and the United team over their 12 months, the likes of Alison, Gomez and Trent may/would probably get in for me. Gomez and clean sheet stats are amazing.

Carragher made a good point over Giggs - only 4 goals, 2 assists that season and Keane had him in over Mane!!!!!

I think Keane, Scholes, Beckham (as a 3) and either or Yorke/cole as the CF are deffoes.

Stam/Gomez - you would side with stam over the career he had, same with Schmeichel/Alison, Robertson/Irwin the same - but in 10 years time you may say the others - who knows.

Mane, Salah, VVD and Trent would be deffoes for me on our side.
		
Click to expand...

Tony’s answered it in part well for me, I did enjoy the debate last night, I took it all with a pinch of salt, it’s like when Sky produce PL stats and ignore the other 100 years of 1st Division football.

I actually think Keane and Carragher work well together.

As for the best 11, I’m not sure there would be many non-Liverpool players (based on this season) that would get into a 2019/20 PL Team of the Season.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2020)

For me it’s a judgment of the teams overall and the 1999 teams walks all over this Liverpool team at this stage. TAA is a fantastic player and is incredibly dynamic but ahead of the best RB in the Premier League era? Behave. Allison ahead of one of the best goalkeepers of all time? Behave. Not including Giggs? Behave!

That team would absolutely be dominated by Man Utd players and for damn good reason. Don’t be so short term and don’t judge them because they might look more stylish. Judge players against their era and with this Liverpool team still very much in its infancy (albeit with absolutely amazing potential) they would have much fewer players in a combined XI.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			For me it’s a judgment of the teams overall and the 1999 teams walks all over this Liverpool team at this stage. TAA is a fantastic player and is incredibly dynamic but ahead of the best RB in the Premier League era? Behave. Allison ahead of one of the best goalkeepers of all time? Behave. Not including Giggs? Behave!

That team would absolutely be dominated by Man Utd players and for damn good reason. Don’t be so short term and don’t judge them because they might look more stylish. Judge players against their era and with this Liverpool team still very much in its infancy (albeit with absolutely amazing potential) they would have much fewer players in a combined XI.
		
Click to expand...

You’re falling in to the same trap though, Schmeichel (without doubt one of the best ever) was playing his last season at Utd in 99 and it could be argued he was on his way down from his peak.
The reason 99% of us would have a combined team dominated by Man Utd players is that we are blinded by their record and careers.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2020)

Let’s be honest it’s always going to be a bit biased 

Also the way the teams played in 99 will not doubt be different to the teams playjng now - the game has moved on 

It’s like the Liverpool team of 87-88 was the best league team I have ever seen , better than UTD 99 and Arsenal 04 - but then I think the current Liverpool side is close to that 88 side - I can’t see a weakness 

With my bias view 

The team I would go for would be 

Alisson 

Neville
Stam 
VVD
Robbo

Keane
Fabinho
Scholes

Mane
Firmino 
Salah


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You’re falling in to the same trap though, Schmeichel (without doubt one of the best ever) was playing his last season at Utd in 99 and it could be argued he was on his way down from his peak.
The reason 99% of us would have a combined team dominated by Man Utd players is that we are blinded by their record and careers.
		
Click to expand...

That’s not blinded - that’s being informed. 

TAA being attacking and good on the ball doesn’t make him better - it’s what the game demands now. 

Allison being flashy and good on the ground doesn’t make him better - it’s what the game demands now. 

The attacking flare of the front three isn’t better than our old fashioned wingers and two strikers approach - it’s what the game demands now. 

The spine of that Man Utd team had been consistent for many years and continued to be whereas Liverpool are at the start of what could be a stellar success. For me, to even suggest we should compare these teams as being on the same level is laughable. 

At the same time I can’t emphasis enough just how hard it is to compare the teams even if they were on a same level of success over a period of time; the more modern team would nearly always win because of the increased technicality and fitness.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 18, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			It’s a pointless debate comparing the current Liverpool team who have basically been great for 2 years with a team that was great over many years.
Comparing Giggs to Mane is ridiculous for the same reason.
One thing I would say that if some of the Liverpool players are still producing over 10 years at this level it would seriously reduce the number of Utd players in my all time team.
I suppose Sky do these debates to get the public talking and to keep the interest high in football.
		
Click to expand...

I'll pick two teams,
            Schmeichel
Neville Stam VVD Robertson
Beckham Keane Scholes Giiggs
           Yorke Salah

              Allison
Taa Stam VVD Robertson
Keane Henderson Scholes
       Mane York Salah 

I also think that just because they had years of (domestic dominance), it doesn't make them a better team. More legendary yes, but not better.
I'd take Liverpool to win 6/4 if they played 10 times.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			That’s not blinded - that’s being informed.

TAA being attacking and good on the ball doesn’t make him better - it’s what the game demands now.

Allison being flashy and good on the ground doesn’t make him better - it’s what the game demands now.

The attacking flare of the front three isn’t better than our old fashioned wingers and two strikers approach - it’s what the game demands now.

*The spine of that Man Utd team had been consistent for many years and continued to be whereas Liverpool are at the start of what could be a stellar success. For me, to even suggest we should compare these teams as being on the same level is laughable.*

At the same time I can’t emphasis enough just how hard it is to compare the teams even if they were on a same level of success over a period of time; the more modern team would nearly always win because of the increased technicality and fitness.
		
Click to expand...

Which is why it’s not only laughable but pointless, you’re pov is based on years of evidence v 1 year.
There’ll never be a correct answer.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Pointless post, then. 

Click to expand...

Yes most of yours are


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 18, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I'll pick two teams,
            Schmeichel
Neville Stam VVD Robertson
Beckham Keane Scholes Giiggs
           Yorke Salah

              Allison
Taa Stam VVD Robertson
Keane Henderson Scholes
       Mane York Salah

I also think that just because they had years of (domestic dominance), it doesn't make them a better team. More legendary yes, but not better.
I'd take Liverpool to win 6/4 if they played 10 times.
		
Click to expand...

You had my interest until you put in Henderson he is without doubt my worst Liverpool player ever.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2020)

The outfield players to me is a good (pointless but fun) debate.

The one I have the biggest issue with is the Keepers, I know Pete and Stu have stated how good Becker is, but I just haven’t seen it (from my armchair) yet.

I do believe this could be because of how outstanding the LPool defence has been, I can recall mentally plenty of Schmeichel saves, game changers etc, I genuinely can’t think of one Becker save or a game were he’s made the difference.

I’m not saying he isn’t one of the best or won’t end up being one of the greatest ever, but currently I’d still have him behind DDG and Neuer in Europe.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 18, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			You had my interest until you put in Henderson he is without doubt my worst Liverpool player ever.
		
Click to expand...

But he facilitates the team perfectly.
Liverpool have tried dropping him and being more aggressive in the middle (start of season) and they're worse without him.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 18, 2020)

Anyone who picks Robertson ahead of Denis Irwin needs a doctors appointment.
Seriously wake up people


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The outfield players to me is a good (pointless but fun) debate.

The one I have the biggest issue with is the Keepers, I know Pete and Stu have stated how good Becker is, but I just haven’t seen it (from my armchair) yet.

I do believe this could be because of how outstanding the LPool defence has been, I can recall mentally plenty of Schmeichel saves, game changers etc, I genuinely can’t think of one Becker save or a game were he’s made the difference.

I’m not saying he isn’t one of the best or won’t end up being one of the greatest ever, but currently I’d still have him behind DDG and Neuer in Europe.
		
Click to expand...

Neuer is done. He makes a lot of mistakes now. Bayern have already moved to get his replacement.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 18, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			That’s not blinded - that’s being informed.

TAA being attacking and good on the ball doesn’t make him better - it’s what the game demands now.

Allison being flashy and good on the ground doesn’t make him better - it’s what the game demands now.

The attacking flare of the front three isn’t better than our old fashioned wingers and two strikers approach - it’s what the game demands now.

The spine of that Man Utd team had been consistent for many years and continued to be whereas Liverpool are at the start of what could be a stellar success. For me, to even suggest we should compare these teams as being on the same level is laughable.

At the same time I can’t emphasis enough just how hard it is to compare the teams even if they were on a same level of success over a period of time; the more modern team would nearly always win because of the increased technicality and fitness.
		
Click to expand...

Great comments. Neville playing nowadays would be deemed quite poor going forwards. Trent playing in 1999 wouldn't get a near a back four with his defending, he'd probably be deemed a right midfield player. The game is different and you do have to take that into account when comparing players of different eras. Allison is a top drawer keeper, but Schmeichel was the best in the world in his day - even though he didn't play many one-twos with his centre backs.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Keane admitted he was biased/loyal to his ex-players but thought he went too far.

The thing is, a lot of them were or became legends of the game, and you can look back and assess them over their whole career, whilst the likes of some of ours are still young or in the middle of their careers.

If you took it on our guys over the last 12 months and the United team over their 12 months, the likes of Alison, Gomez and Trent may/would probably get in for me. Gomez and clean sheet stats are amazing.

Carragher made a good point over Giggs - only 4 goals, 2 assists that season and Keane had him in over Mane!!!!!

I think Keane, Scholes, Beckham (as a 3) and either or Yorke/cole as the CF are deffoes.

Stam/Gomez - you would side with stam over the career he had, same with Schmeichel/Alison, Robertson/Irwin the same - but in 10 years time you may say the others - who knows.

Mane, Salah, VVD and Trent would be deffoes for me on our side.
		
Click to expand...

VVD has made all Liverpool’s defenders stats look better.
Even comparing Stam/Gomez is delusional they are not on the same planet regarding performances or careers


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Great comments. Neville playing nowadays would be deemed quite poor going forwards. T*rent playing in 1999 wouldn't get a near a back four with his defending, he'd probably be deemed a right midfield player*. The game is different and you do have to take that into account when comparing players of different eras. Allison is a top drawer keeper, but Schmeichel was the best in the world in his day - even though he didn't play many one-twos with his centre backs.
		
Click to expand...

If it wasn't for the fact its Beckham at right midfield, i'd have him in there in the combined team tbf


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Great comments. Neville playing nowadays would be deemed quite poor going forwards. Trent playing in 1999 wouldn't get a near a back four with his defending, he'd probably be deemed a right midfield player. The game is different and you do have to take that into account when comparing players of different eras. Allison is a top drawer keeper, but Schmeichel was the best in the world in his day - even though he didn't play many one-twos with his centre backs.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Great comments. Neville playing nowadays would be deemed quite poor going forwards. Trent playing in 1999 wouldn't get a near a back four with his defending, he'd probably be deemed a right midfield player. The game is different and you do have to take that into account when comparing players of different eras. Allison is a top drawer keeper, but Schmeichel was the best in the world in his day - even though he didn't play many one-twos with his centre backs.
		
Click to expand...

Allison is the best GK in the world right now - just ahead of Oblak , he isn’t just great with his distribution , he is everything you want from a GK - makes key saves at the right time , sweeps well , strong hands - no one in the current game better imo 
The game has changed though and it’s hard to look past bias


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2020)

I see Son is out for the season, looks like Kane is, so why can spurs not look for an emergency striker like Barca are.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 18, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I see Son is out for the season, looks like Kane is, so why can spurs not look for an emergency striker like Barca are.
		
Click to expand...

I'd imagine no club in england would sell spurs a striker for £8m for a start.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 18, 2020)

Combined  team discussions are a bit like school kids saying " my dads harder than your dad ", leave it for the virgins.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I see Son is out for the season, looks like Kane is, so why can spurs not look for an emergency striker like Barca are.
		
Click to expand...

They can ask but I believe it must be someone who is without a club currently ?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Neuer is done. He makes a lot of mistakes now. Bayern have already moved to get his replacement.
		
Click to expand...

You mean possibly in his last season like Schmeichel in 99.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They can ask but I believe it must be someone who is without a club currently ?
		
Click to expand...

Contract expiring and for no more than €10m was what barca were restricted to.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Allison is the best GK in the world right now - just ahead of Oblak , he isn’t just great with his distribution , he is everything you want from a GK - makes key saves at the right time , sweeps well , strong hands - no one in the current game better imo
The game has changed though and it’s hard to look past bias
		
Click to expand...

You must watch him on a differently telly to me.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I'd imagine no club in england would sell spurs a striker for £8m for a start.
		
Click to expand...

They can have Niasse for free!


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 18, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I see Son is out for the season, looks like Kane is, so why can spurs not look for an emergency striker like Barca are.
		
Click to expand...

Probably said this already but that's an utter farce that Barca were granted an emergency signing. Oh the hardship of having to cope with only Messi and Griezmann up front.  Really?

As for us, we're royally f****d. Mourinho keeps saying Troy Parrott isn't ready for the first team but I don't see that he has any choice here. At the very least for the bench.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Allison is the best GK in the world right now - just ahead of Oblak , he isn’t just great with his distribution , he is everything you want from a GK - makes key saves at the right time , sweeps well , strong hands - no one in the current game better imo
The game has changed though and it’s hard to look past bias
		
Click to expand...

THE most important thing is he's the best GK at liverpool. Everything else is irrelevant


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Allison is the best GK in the world right now - just ahead of Oblak , he isn’t just great with his distribution , he is everything you want from a GK - makes key saves at the right time , sweeps well , strong hands - no one in the current game better imo
The game has changed though and it’s hard to look past bias
		
Click to expand...

Oblak a couple of years ago maybe makes this conversation but definitely not anymore. What are you basing this on?


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You mean possibly in his last season like Schmeichel in 99.

Click to expand...

No I mean Neuer makes a lot of mistakes and they’re actively looked to replace him. Not even slightly comparable as Schmeichel wanting a new challenge.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 18, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Contract expiring and for no more than €10m was what barca were restricted to.
		
Click to expand...

I'm slightly disappointed that this is the real answer. I thought your inital post was a 'Spurs / Levy will only spend £8m' line and I nearly did a tea spray on my keyboard .


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They can ask but I believe it must be someone who is without a club currently ?
		
Click to expand...

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/statistik/vertragslosespieler 

Errrr Ross McCormack maybe?? I'm not sure he'd be better than Troy Parrott. Diafra Sakho has at least scored in the Premier League. Anichebe? It's not a great selection.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			THE most important thing is he's the best GK at liverpool. Everything else is irrelevant
		
Click to expand...

Bore off, spoilsport! You’re like a cloud on a sunny day!


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 18, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Oblak a couple of years ago maybe makes this conversation but definitely not anymore. What are you basing this on?
		
Click to expand...

Do you need to ask?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Oblak a couple of years ago maybe makes this conversation but definitely not anymore. What are you basing this on?
		
Click to expand...

Basing it on his performances for both club and country across all the competitions he plays - VVD gets a lot of credit for our improvements at rhe back but Alisson is just as key as VVD


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Basing it on his performances for both club and country across all the competitions he plays - VVD gets a lot of credit for our improvements at rhe back but Alisson is just as key as VVD
		
Click to expand...

You’d be where you are now with Jordan Pickford in nets.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			You’d be where you are now with Jordan Pickford in nets.
		
Click to expand...

Its just an opinion but no we wouldn’t - we wouldn’t have won the CL last year that’s for sure , with Alisson’s performance against Napoli


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2020)

Who was the Roma keeper 18 months ago when LPool put 7 past him over 2 legs? #askingforafriend.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 18, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			VVD has made all Liverpool’s defenders stats look better.
Even comparing Stam/Gomez is delusional they are not on the same planet regarding performances or careers
		
Click to expand...

Maybe learn to read and take in what I've said before talking more shoit.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Who was the Roma keeper 18 months ago when LPool put 7 past him over 2 legs? #askingforafriend.
		
Click to expand...

Did the same friend ask who was in goal when Soton and Newcastle whacked United?

1 bad game does not mean a bad career.

He didnt have a grey jersey on either. 

Old Nev let 5 in against us as well - I was there.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Did the same friend ask who was in goal when Soton and Newcastle whacked United?

I bad game does not mean a career.

He didnt have a grey jersey on either. 

Old Nev let 5 in against us as well - I was there.

Click to expand...

But nobody claimed Peter or Big Nev were the world’s best after just 3/4’s of one season either!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			But nobody claimed Peter or Big Nev were the world’s best after just 3/4’s of one season either! 

Click to expand...

Can a player not improve over a period ? The Roma game was about 23 months ago now - Alisson has been in the Prem for coming up to two season - believe he is breaking clean sheet records as he goes along - I believe in the league it’s 1 goal let in over the last 13 games maybe ?

6 goals all season in 18 games - 10 clean sheets , overall 31 in 56 games


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Maybe learn to read and take in what I've said before talking more shoit.
		
Click to expand...

I did
It wasn’t long ago Gomez was out injured.
Then he had to wait for his place and has only just started playing regular.
So quite hard to judge over 12 months


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can a player not improve over a period ? The Roma game was about 23 months ago now - Alisson has been in the Prem for coming up to two season - believe he is breaking clean sheet records as he goes along - I believe in the league it’s 1 goal let in over the last 13 games maybe ?

6 goals all season in 18 games - 10 clean sheets , overall 31 in 56 games
		
Click to expand...

It’s hard to fathom how Alison is so good when you also claim to have the best defence also.
Surely with the best defence the keepers got less to do.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 18, 2020)

Surely the two points aren't mutually exclusive.

That reasoning would be like saying the best strikers play for worse teams as they get less chances but still manage to score.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can a player not improve over a period ? The Roma game was about 23 months ago now - Alisson has been in the Prem for coming up to two season - believe he is breaking clean sheet records as he goes along - I believe in the league it’s 1 goal let in over the last 13 games maybe ?

6 goals all season in 18 games - 10 clean sheets , overall 31 in 56 games
		
Click to expand...

Banter Phil, chill out, not sure how many times we can give credit to him or to LPool or use emoji’s for fun. 

Last season he made a couple of clangers and got stick off Lpool fans.

Stats are useless, did you know Pickford was second to him in clean sheets during 2019, and we are acutely aware of what you think of Pickford, despite Pickford being 2 years younger, does he have no chance of improving over a period.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Banter Phil, chill out, not sure how many times we can give credit to him or to LPool or use emoji’s for fun. 

Last season he made a couple of clangers and got stick off Lpool fans.

Stats are useless, did you know Pickford was second to him in clean sheets during 2019, and we are acutely aware of what you think of Pickford, despite Pickford being 2 years younger, does he have no chance of improving over a period.

Click to expand...

Thought banter had to be funny 😁😉

Of course if Pickford does improve and the mistakes reduce to the point it’s not costing the team points then he will be given the credit - right now he just like the other keeper Sunderland sold 

Was he really second ? Ahead of Ederson ? Or are just going by calender year ? 

6 in 26 this season and behind a few others last season


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Thought banter had to be funny 😁😉

Of course if Pickford does improve and the mistakes reduce to the point it’s not costing the team points then he will be given the credit - right now he just like the other keeper Sunderland sold

Was he really second ? Ahead of Ederson ? Or are just going by calender year ?

6 in 26 this season and behind a few others last season
		
Click to expand...

Calendar year, came out when they gave all them other meaningless calendar stats about yous.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 18, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			It’s hard to fathom how Alison is so good when you also claim to have the best defence also.
Surely with the best defence the keepers got less to do.
		
Click to expand...

This is a month old now but it does show at the time he had the best save percentage:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1218618334427537408
As a sidenote it's also a very strong indication that Dean Henderson should be England's number 1.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Its just an opinion but no we wouldn’t - we wouldn’t have won the CL last year that’s for sure , with Alisson’s performance against Napoli
		
Click to expand...

This is spot on .
The test of a good keeper is if he has nothing to do all game then one vital save wins you the game.
Alisson has done this many times this season and is partly why we are where we are.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			This is a month old now but it does show at the time he had the best save percentage:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1218618334427537408
As a sidenote it's also a very strong indication that Dean Henderson should be England's number 1. 

Click to expand...

Oh, I found where they got this from and produced an updated version.




That's pretty ridiculous.

P.S. it excludes anyone who's played less than half of their teams minutes I think. If I untick the button to do that Lloris appears at 3rd in the list, which is higher than I expected.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Probably said this already but that's an utter farce that Barca were granted an emergency signing. Oh the hardship of having to cope with only Messi and Griezmann up front.  Really?

As for us, we're royally f****d. Mourinho keeps saying Troy Parrott isn't ready for the first team but I don't see that he has any choice here. At the very least for the bench.
		
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly, but for me what is wrong is this. Barca can play said loanee against Getafe instead of Messi saving messi for a champs league game. Hows that right. 🤔


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Oh, I found where they got this from and produced an updated version.

View attachment 29219


That's pretty ridiculous.

P.S. it excludes anyone who's played less than half of their teams minutes I think. If I untick the button to do that Lloris appears at 3rd in the list, which is higher than I expected.
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps there defence is not as good as it seems


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 18, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Perhaps there defence is not as good as it seems
		
Click to expand...

I think the defence probably influences the quality of the chances the keeper faces though. Hard to quantify, but with Van Dijk blocking your path you're maybe shooting from further out.

Quite funny that Leno has faced the second most shots after Dubravka. That says it all about where Arsenal are at the minute.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Oh, I found where they got this from and produced an updated version.

View attachment 29219


That's pretty ridiculous.

P.S. it excludes anyone who's played less than half of their teams minutes I think. If I untick the button to do that Lloris appears at 3rd in the list, which is higher than I expected.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately International Managers tend to go with favourites or established players rather than those on form.
Dean Henderson certainly deserves a chance.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Oh, I found where they got this from and produced an updated version.

View attachment 29219


That's pretty ridiculous.

P.S. it excludes anyone who's played less than half of their teams minutes I think. If I untick the button to do that Lloris appears at 3rd in the list, which is higher than I expected.
		
Click to expand...

Looking at most stats Alisson comes out on top when compared to any keeper in the league and I really don’t see any other keeper in Europe/World better than him right now - certainly no one else would swap him for 

And Henderson has been talked by a lot of people and stats wise again he is outperforming DDG and it’s prob time in summer for him to be club and country number 1 or at least given a chance.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The outfield players to me is a good (pointless but fun) debate.

The one I have the biggest issue with is the Keepers, I know Pete and Stu have stated how good Becker is, but I just haven’t seen it (from my armchair) yet.

I do believe this could be because of how outstanding the LPool defence has been, I can recall mentally plenty of Schmeichel saves, game changers etc, I genuinely can’t think of one Becker save or a game were he’s made the difference.

I’m not saying he isn’t one of the best or won’t end up being one of the greatest ever, but currently I’d still have him behind DDG and Neuer in Europe.
		
Click to expand...

A lot of what you say is correct, but its like the Des walker analogy I've mentioned in the past (a bit like Wan Bissaka now). If a defender is doing last ditch sliding tackles 3-4 times a game, as well as game after game is it because he is out of position too much?

It's a bit like Alison, he hardly seems to make unbelievable saves, but is it because  he does the basics right? He hardly ever has to throw himself into the top corner. His decision making on when to come out of his box, come for crosses etc is also the best Ive seen.

I think some people are missing the point, as well  - its not to say who was the best player out of the two teams in their eras, but based on what they did in 1999 (only) and this 12 months for us, who would you pick.

So picking Giggs is, well sad really. 4 goals and 2 assists, i think Carragher quoted for that season. Mane already has about 20 goals, never mind the assists. Now before anyone says it, yes, Mane is a wide forward, whereas Giggs was a winger, but in a midfield that had Scholes, Beckham and Keane, he was given for licence to go forward.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 18, 2020)

How can you measure goalkeeping stats? If 10 shots are straight at a keeper he saves them. Does that make him the best in the league? No, they are saves he should make. Surely those sorts of stats have to be taken with a huge amount of caution, they must be the least reliable out there.

No question that allison is the best keeper in the league right now, no dispute there.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 18, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			VVD has made all Liverpool’s defenders stats look better.
Even comparing Stam/Gomez is delusional they are not on the same planet regarding performances or careers
		
Click to expand...

Again your talking career.

Are my words not getting through?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Combined  team discussions are a bit like school kids saying " my dads harder than your dad ", leave it for the virgins.
		
Click to expand...

Weirdly, though the other fella who said it was pointless wont shut up.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 18, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			I did
It wasn’t long ago Gomez was out injured.
Then he had to wait for his place and has only just started playing regular.
So quite hard to judge over 12 months
		
Click to expand...

Not many can just be thrown straight in after breaking a leg.

Look at the games he has played in the last 18 months and the percentage of clean sheets. I said it at the beginning of last season that he was nearly the equal of VVD on the form he showed then, the last 11 games has seen 10 clean sheets, I think.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Again your talking career.

Are my words not getting through?
		
Click to expand...

What has Gomez done in his career or this season or any other season to warrant such recognition.
Has he even scored a goal yet.
How many games has he played in the last 5 seasons.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Not many can just be thrown straight in after breaking a leg.

Look at the games he has played in the last 18 months and the percentage of clean sheets. I said it at the beginning of last season that he was nearly the equal of VVD on the form he showed then, the last 11 games has seen 10 clean sheets, I think.
		
Click to expand...

VVD is the main reason for Liverpool’s turnaround in defensive performances he’s made the biggest difference in defence as I’ve ever seen by one person.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 18, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			What has Gomez done in his career or this season or any other season to warrant such recognition.
Has he even scored a goal yet.
How many games has he played in the last 5 seasons.
		
Click to expand...

He is only 22 or 23, and had 2-3 bad injuries.

*The criteria was based on the one season of play, not their whole career.*


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Not many can just be thrown straight in after breaking a leg.

Look at the games he has played in the last 18 months and the percentage of clean sheets. I said it at the beginning of last season that he was nearly the equal of VVD on the form he showed then, the last 11 games has seen 10 clean sheets, I think.
		
Click to expand...

Gomez is for me the best English CB - pace , strong in the tackle , good in the air but his reading of the game is second to none - he just needs to get past the injuries which have arrived at unfortunate times - he is learning from VVD as well and has the potential to be better than VVD - as a pair the best in Europe and I think it’s only one goal conceded this season when they pair up 

The strength of the two CB’s and GK allow TAA to be able to roam forward. Add in either Fabinho or Henderson sitting in front and it’s no surprise to see them as the best defence in the league - when we add De Bruyne and either Sancho or Werner in the summer it’s going to get even stronger going forward 😉😁


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 18, 2020)

I'll hold my hands up, early doors @Liverpoolphil made *a lot* of noise about Gomez, and whilst i accepted he had talent i felt his opinion was massively OTT.

This season, without Gomez Liverpoool kept 2 clean sheets in 15. Since his return they've kept 10/11. For me, that's a pretty clear improvement.


And typically he's just responded before me!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I'll hold my hands up, early doors @Liverpoolphil made *a lot* of noise about Gomez, and whilst i accepted he had talent i felt his opinion was massively OTT.

This season, without Gomez Liverpoool kept 2 clean sheets in 15. Since his return they've kept 10/11. For me, that's a pretty clear improvement.


And typically he's just responded before me!
		
Click to expand...

At the time of the discussion your point was valid ( still is ) that he has had a few injuries and when he returned he was still behind both Lovren and Matip so it would have been hard to see how good he is when he wasn’t getting into the team - a couple of those early games also had Adrian in goal who is excellent as a number two but as soon as Alisson was back in along with Gomez then the backline is far superior


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How can you measure goalkeeping stats? If 10 shots are straight at a keeper he saves them. Does that make him the best in the league? No, they are saves he should make. Surely those sorts of stats have to be taken with a huge amount of caution, they must be the least reliable out there.

No question that allison is the best keeper in the league right now, no dispute there.
		
Click to expand...

to endorse that statement. Two words. Claudio Bravo. 😖


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Gomez is for me the best English CB - pace , strong in the tackle , good in the air but his reading of the game is second to none - he just needs to get past the injuries which have arrived at unfortunate times - he is learning from VVD as well and has the potential to be better than VVD - as a pair the best in Europe and I think it’s only one goal conceded this season when they pair up

The strength of the two CB’s and GK allow TAA to be able to roam forward. Add in either Fabinho or Henderson sitting in front and it’s no surprise to see them as the best defence in the league - when we add De Bruyne and either Sancho or Werner in the summer it’s going to get even stronger going forward 😉😁
		
Click to expand...

Do you think Pep will sell us KDB 
I hope so what a player.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Gomez is for me the best English CB - pace , strong in the tackle , good in the air but his reading of the game is second to none - he just needs to get past the injuries which have arrived at unfortunate times - he is learning from VVD as well and has the potential to be better than VVD - as a pair the best in Europe and I think it’s only one goal conceded this season when they pair up

The strength of the two CB’s and GK allow TAA to be able to roam forward. Add in either Fabinho or Henderson sitting in front and it’s no surprise to see them as the best defence in the league - when we add De Bruyne and either Sancho or Werner in the summer it’s going to get even stronger going forward 😉😁
		
Click to expand...

Potentially you maybe correct, I don’t believe him returning to your side is the reason solely for the clean sheets.
I don’t think you’d of had any less points had Lovren or Matip been in his place.

You could say he’s been lucky to get his place back due to others getting injured.

From an England point of view I hope you’re correct and he stays injury free.

PS. You can’t give credit to both Becker and Gomez for the clean sheets.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 18, 2020)

I don’t need stats to influence my judgement of how good a footballer is, but Joe Gomez is superb and deserves all the plaudits he gets.

You might not see it from the comfort of your armchair wearing Anti LiVARpool goggles, though that must be the reason you lot need stats to judge him 😉


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			A lot of what you say is correct, but its like the Des walker analogy I've mentioned in the past (a bit like Wan Bissaka now). If a defender is doing last ditch sliding tackles 3-4 times a game, as well as game after game is it because he is out of position too much?

It's a bit like Alison, he hardly seems to make unbelievable saves, but is it because  he does the basics right? He hardly ever has to throw himself into the top corner. His decision making on when to come out of his box, come for crosses etc is also the best Ive seen.

I think some people are missing the point, as well  - its not to say who was the best player out of the two teams in their eras, but based on what they did in 1999 (only) and this 12 months for us, who would you pick.

So picking Giggs is, well sad really. 4 goals and 2 assists, i think Carragher quoted for that season. Mane already has about 20 goals, never mind the assists. Now before anyone says it, yes, Mane is a wide forward, whereas Giggs was a winger, but in a midfield that had Scholes, Beckham and Keane, he was given for licence to go forward.
		
Click to expand...

Bit of fun Pete, don’t disagree with any of the above and we know the danger of stats.
You can’t look at any player historically and cut out 90-99% of your knowledge on them, just impossible.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 18, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Potentially you maybe correct,* I don’t believe him returning to your side is the reason solely for the clean sheets.*
I don’t think you’d of had any less points had *Lovren *or Matip been in his place.

You could say he’s been lucky to get his place back due to others getting injured.

From an England point of view I hope you’re correct and he stays injury free.

PS. You can’t give credit to both Becker and Gomez for the clean sheets.

Click to expand...

He’s a massive part though. Keeping clean sheets is a team thing, not even VVD is the sole reason. 

I do. 😉


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			He’s a massive part though. Keeping clean sheets is a team thing, not even VVD is the sole reason.

I do. 😉
		
Click to expand...

Depends which stat you’re backing up!


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Do you think Pep will sell us KDB
I hope so what a player.
		
Click to expand...

was listening to a piece the other day about which players could be player of the season. Mane, Henderson and VVD were mentioned.KDB has been outstanding for City. Wonder how  it will pan out end of the season 🤔


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I don’t need stats to influence my judgement of how good a footballer is, but Joe Gomez is superb and deserves all the plaudits he gets.

You might not see it from the comfort of your armchair wearing Anti LiVARpool goggles, though that must be the reason you lot need stats to judge him 😉
		
Click to expand...

Pete came up with the stats


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			He is only 22 or 23, and had 2-3 bad injuries.

*The criteria was based on the one season of play, not their whole career.*

Click to expand...

Which season then.
He’s played only half the games


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2020)

Peter Crouch is really good as a pundit 

Interesting to see that when picking Liverpool’s most important player Ferdinand picks Henderson ( couldn’t pick VVD ) - it’s great to see him getting the recognition he deserves. This is a going to be a tough game tonight Atletico are no mugs and a lot of quality in the team - with no La Liga on Sky it will be interesting to see how much Saul Niguez has developed and how Lemar is


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 18, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Which season then.
He’s played only half the games
		
Click to expand...

I'll give you two seasons regarding Gomez.

Winter and spring.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 18, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			was listening to a piece the other day about which players could be player of the season. Mane, Henderson and VVD were mentioned.KDB has been outstanding for City. Wonder how  it will pan out end of the season 🤔
		
Click to expand...

No body remembers who finished second.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 18, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			was listening to a piece the other day about which players could be player of the season. Mane, Henderson and VVD were mentioned.KDB has been outstanding for City. Wonder how  it will pan out end of the season 🤔
		
Click to expand...

I love watching him he makes it look so easy.
Imagine him in Liverpool’s midfield. The balls he plays are on another level .
Plus we need someone for cynical fouling.
But what’s he worth.?


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			No body remembers who finished second.

Click to expand...

Aaaaaah,   but that is my point, when it comes to the trophies. yes they dont, but when it comes to individual honours. Yes they do. 🤗🤔


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I love watching him he makes it look so easy.
Imagine him in Liverpool’s midfield. The balls he plays are on another level .
Plus we need someone for cynical fouling.
But what’s he worth.?
		
Click to expand...

An investigation by UEFAS FFP committee 😂


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'll give you two seasons regarding Gomez.

Winter and spring.

Click to expand...

Bout sums it up,no evidence along with no goals


----------



## Fish (Feb 18, 2020)

Has that buggered up the stats


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 18, 2020)

Fish said:



			Has that buggered up the stats 

Click to expand...

That was obviously going to happen.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 18, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			An investigation by UEFAS FFP committee 😂
		
Click to expand...

Would not trust them.
Couple of brown envelopes and he’s wearing a red shirt.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 18, 2020)

2 more for Haaland.
imagine wanting to sign him, but ending up with ighalo!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2020)

Well we didn’t create enough in the game at the end but god what a poor set of officials - Madrid once they went up just park all 11 behind the ball and solid , but so really poor antics from rbe players and the referee was embarrassing- he was sucked right in , proper homer. Second leg is going to be tough


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Well we didn’t create enough in the game *at the end but god what a poor set of officials - Madrid once they went up just park all 11 behind the ball and solid , but so really poor antics from rbe players and the referee was embarrassing- he was sucked right in , proper homer. Second leg is going to be tough
		
Click to expand...

Thats all that matters, must do better. 

Its only half time, I’m confident we’ll beat them at home.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Thats all that matters, must do better.

Its only half time, I’m confident we’ll beat them at home.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah certainly confident just hope the ref is strong and Mane coming off was just a precaution-  can see it being very physical.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 18, 2020)

We had some chances but didn’t take them .
Bad goal to give away against a side like this.
Never looked like they were in any trouble, 
Crossing and corners were woeful, and in a game like this they are important.
Thought their fullbacks were excellent and they got their tactics spot on ,even if it’s not good to watch!


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 18, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Bout sums it up,no evidence along with no goals
		
Click to expand...

So you'll judge a centre half on goals, but when you compare Mane's 20-odd to Giggs 4, suddenly the point becomes redundant.

Go on, explain that one.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 18, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			So you'll judge a centre half on goals, but when you compare Mane's 20-odd to Giggs 4, suddenly the point becomes redundant.

Go on, explain that one.
		
Click to expand...

It certainly wasn’t me that compared Mane to Giggs.
Mane is a good player there’s no doubt about that.
Only another 15 years behind Giggs though.
Two totally different players


----------



## huds1475 (Feb 18, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			2 more for Haaland.
imagine wanting to sign him, but ending up with ighalo!
		
Click to expand...

You'd have to be pretty dumb to imagine that's what really happened.

You know who Haalands agent is don't you??


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 18, 2020)

huds1475 said:



			You'd have to be pretty dumb to imagine that's what really happened.

You know who Haalands agent is don't you??
		
Click to expand...

You‘d have to,be pretty dumb to bite on such an obvious joke....

Especially as Utd clearly didn’t want Haaland and haven’t ended up with Ighalo.....

And yes, I know the agent is the one that’s probably gonna have your ”injured” superstar fit come May for a transfer.....


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 19, 2020)

Not a fluid Liverpool display and no shot on target a poor statistic but it was always going to be a difficult place to go against a rugged team. I think at home Liverpool will play with more pace and energy and have far too much quality across the pitch not to win


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 19, 2020)

Liverpool have the title sewn up


Feel free to rest players and let us win Monday thanks


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 19, 2020)

So FIFA's solution to VAR and offside is to change the offside rules to suit VAR.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 19, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			It certainly wasn’t me that compared Mane to Giggs.
Mane is a good player there’s no doubt about that.
Only another 15 years behind Giggs though.
Two totally different players
		
Click to expand...

Its no use arguing when someone is acting so stupid, and cant answer the question posed.

I think you should go and see a doctor.

The whole discussion was over one season, not their careers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! for the fifth time.


----------



## Junior (Feb 19, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			You‘d have to,be pretty dumb to bite on such an obvious joke....

Especially as Utd clearly didn’t want Haaland and haven’t ended up with Ighalo.....

And yes, I know the agent is the one that’s probably gonna have your ”injured” superstar fit come May for a transfer.....
		
Click to expand...

We did mate.  We chased him until the end, but, Riola's deal with Dortmund is crazy.    They bought him for 18 mil and anything they get for him over 20m goes to Riola.   Dortmund get a class player for a couple of years and 2m profit.  Not a bad deal if you look at it in the short term,   I'm not if UTD were offered the same deal , but were probably arrogant in their discussions with Riaola given the relationship the club has with this particular agent, and the comments he is making about the club.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			He is only 22 or 23, and had 2-3 bad injuries.

*The criteria was based on the one season of play, not their whole career.*

Click to expand...

Who says it was? They were comparing Liverpool's team with the Man Utd team of 1999. So I would take that to mean their career _up to and including_ 1999. So if we're talking about Giggs, he had just won his 5th Premier League, had over 50 league goals and lord knows how many assists by that point. That's the player you're comparing to.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 19, 2020)

Junior said:



			We did mate.  We chased him until the end, but, Riola's deal with Dortmund is crazy.    They bought him for 18 mil and anything they get for him over 20m goes to Riola.   Dortmund get a class player for a couple of years and 2m profit.  Not a bad deal if you look at it in the short term,   I'm not if UTD were offered the same deal , but were probably arrogant in their discussions with Riaola given the relationship the club has with this particular agent, and the comments he is making about the club.
		
Click to expand...

From everything I read you were pretty much offered a similar deal. It's understandable that Utd see themsleves as less of a stepping stone than dortmund considering your status. 

Plus Riaola has bent you over a few times. So get your stance on the deal. Personally think you (Utd) should have swallowed your pride, but can see why you didn't. 

Tbf it was only a joke 😂😂


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 19, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Who says it was? They were comparing Liverpool's team with the Man Utd team of 1999. So I would take that to mean their career _up to and including_ 1999. So if we're talking about Giggs, he had just won his 5th Premier League, had over 50 league goals and lord knows how many assists by that point. That's the player you're comparing to.
		
Click to expand...

I'd still take Mane in a 433.
Giggs in the 442.

A clubs success doesn't solely determine a players ability either, Djemba And Kleberson have league titles and Gerrard doesnt, who are you gonna pick?
Mane has 6 Premier league seasons behind him and has massively outscored Giggs, even when at Saints, not sure about assist tbh.

Edit. 

Just checked PL stats. During his PL career Giggs involved in 0.48 Goall's per game. Mane 0.58 per game. 

Giggs with a higher ratio of assists. So they fit their respective teams well.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 19, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I'd still take Mane in a 433.

A clubs success doesn't solely determine a players ability either, Djemba And Kleberson have league titles and Gerrard doesnt, who are you gonna pick?
Mane has 6 Premier league seasons behind him and has massively outscored Giggs, even when at Saints, not sure about assist tbh.
		
Click to expand...

Kleberson obviously. He also won a World Cup. 

Edit: anyway, I'm changing mine after discussing it with my mates.

Schmeichel
Neville Stam VVD Robertson
Becks Scholes Keane Giggs
Mane Salah​


----------



## Junior (Feb 19, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			From everything I read you were pretty much offered a similar deal. It's understandable that Utd see themsleves as less of a stepping stone than dortmund considering your status.

Plus Riaola has bent you over a few times. So get your stance on the deal. Personally think you (Utd) should have swallowed your pride, but can see why you didn't.

Tbf it was only a joke 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

I agree, we should have bitten the bullet and swallowed our pride !


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			So FIFA's solution to VAR and offside is to change the offside rules to suit VAR.
		
Click to expand...

Unlike them to make a hash of anything isn't it? Bound to over complicate, fudge or confuse the issue again


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Its no use arguing when someone is acting so stupid, and cant answer the question posed.

I think you should go and see a doctor.

The whole discussion was over one season, not their careers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! for the fifth time.

Click to expand...

Lmao Pete sounds like your losing your mind 
Let’s just take a step back.
The original post 9985 from Orikoru was about a team debate from Utds 99 team and yours this season as a combined team.
You said look at it from the last 12 months for both teams.
You also said Gomez would probably get in and emphasised his clean sheets stats.
(My point there would be they are not Gomez stats they are Liverpool’s stats,the whole team working hard,a very good back 4 and a world class keeper.
You then said Stam/Gomez “you would probably side with Stam over the career he had.
So you changed from 12 months to career,well make your mind up.
Now wether we are comparing 12 months or career imo Gomez has achieved nothing it’s all probability.
He’s played 61 league games in 5 years and never scored.
A season is 40 games for a top player in a team fighting on all fronts.
When I asked you what season you were referring to you came up with Winter and Spring.
Seriously.
Anyway on a positive note you must have been pleased with a 1-0 last night?


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 19, 2020)

Strange game last night, Liverpool played really well and had a large chunk of possession yet they had few [if any] shots on target.


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 19, 2020)

I don't get Wengers proposed change to the offside rule. He thinks it will get rid of being offside by millimetres. It won't. It just moves the measurement from the most forward part, to the most rearward part. Same measurement, same decisions to be made.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 19, 2020)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Strange game last night, Liverpool played really well and had a large chunk of possession yet they had few [if any] shots on target.

Click to expand...

Not sure about “ played really well”
They had possession but didn’t do much with it.
When a team sits back like that it’s tough we hardly got behind them.
I can’t remember the keeper making a save.
Our free kicks and corners were poor, and in a game like that was our best chance to score.
We had a couple of chances but never hit the target.
Very frustrating but that’s football ,all about the result.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 19, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			I don't get Wengers proposed change to the offside rule. He thinks it will get rid of being offside by millimetres. It won't. It just moves the measurement from the most forward part, to the most rearward part. Same measurement, same decisions to be made.
		
Click to expand...

 Allows more goals though.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 19, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			I don't get Wengers proposed change to the offside rule. He thinks it will get rid of being offside by millimetres. It won't. It just moves the measurement from the most forward part, to the most rearward part. Same measurement, same decisions to be made.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure, I think he's onto something he's just worded it strangely (maybe language barrier - despite all his years living in England he still had an odd turn of phrase). If we can get back to level with the defence being onside, then I'll be happier anyway. And I think that's what he means. Although he's gone too far the other way as it sounds like in his method you could be onside if you drag your toe behind you to be inline with the defence while the rest of you is beyond them, haha.

Honestly it's like lunatics running the asylum with VAR, they overcomplicate it when it actually needs to be simplified.


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 19, 2020)

But even with level, now offside can be measured, and it will be, mm is the measurement. How level is level?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 19, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			But even with level, now offside can be measured, and it will be, mm is the measurement. How level is level?
		
Click to expand...

They should just use the shoulders!
If any of your shoulders are onside your on .
Daylight between your shoulders and the defenders your off.
But any system under VAR will need to  be measured.


----------



## User62651 (Feb 19, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not sure about “ played really well”
They had possession but didn’t do much with it.
When a team sits back like that it’s tough we hardly got behind them.
I can’t remember the keeper making a save.
Our free kicks and corners were poor, and in a game like that was our best chance to score.
We had a couple of chances but never hit the target.
Very frustrating but that’s football ,all about the result.
		
Click to expand...

going to Atletico is about as tough as it gets, no matter what domestic form they might be showing. Pre match said to my eldest that Liverpool would lose despite form suggesting otherwise and was proved correct. Spanish opposition away is always tough.
1-0 is ok though, 2-0 you'd be out.
This 2nd leg is very dangeorus for Liverpool, think they may be a little overrated tbh, still good enough to win ECL again of course but not so far ahead of the top European clubs as some might say.
Robertson and A Arnold were a bit flat last night, maybe going behind so early changed the psyche of the team. go 1-0 down to Athletico and thy defend as a unit better than anyone. You have to score first v them. Lots of possession and sideways play but no penetration. I almost though Klopp should have an Andy Carroll/Peter Crouch type target man on the bench just as a plan B, a means to play route 1 when it could be a last resort option. Worked with Spurs and LLorente last year for example.
Game on though.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 19, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			But even with level, now offside can be measured, and it will be, mm is the measurement. How level is level?
		
Click to expand...

As I've said before, you don't need to measure anything, just let the ref/lino review it on screen, have a look at the replay and if they look level he's onside. It really could be that simple. Just like the decisions they make in real time, they make a judgement on whether he's level or offside, having a second look at it on-screen just helps them make that judgement.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 19, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			going to Atletico is about as tough as it gets, no matter what domestic form they might be showing. Pre match said to my eldest that Liverpool would lose despite form suggesting otherwise and was proved correct. Spanish opposition away is always tough.
1-0 is ok though, 2-0 you'd be out.
This 2nd leg is very dangeorus for Liverpool, think they may be a little overrated tbh, still good enough to win ECL again of course but not so far ahead of the top European clubs as some might say.
Robertson and A Arnold were a bit flat last night, maybe going behind so early changed the psyche of the team. go 1-0 down to Athletico and thy defend as a unit better than anyone. You have to score first v them. Lots of possession and sideways play but no penetration. I almost though Klopp should have an Andy Carroll/Peter Crouch type target man on the bench just as a plan B, a means to play route 1 when it could be a last resort option. Worked with Spurs and LLorente last year for example.
Game on though.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I agree the CF have said on many occasions we have no plan B.
But this is Klopp way ,he has total faith in it. And to be fair it’s worked very well.!
He could have put VVD up for the last 15 mins ,he had a big height advantage but the crosses never found him, but think he was quite happy with 1-0.
A lot of the time Firmino is not in the box as he’s working in the 10 role.
This makes it tough for the fullbacks to find someone with a cross unless the midfielders get past the strikers.
We had a few chances but didn’t take them.
An away goal would have been nice but you have to credit them they stopped us scoring and not many teams have done that.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 19, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			As I've said before, you don't need to measure anything, just let the ref/lino review it on screen, have a look at the replay and if they look level he's onside. It really could be that simple. Just like the decisions they make in real time, they make a judgement on whether he's level or offside, having a second look at it on-screen just helps them make that judgement.
		
Click to expand...

I agree but they seem very reluctant to use the screen!
I am wondering why?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 19, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Lmao Pete sounds like your losing your mind 
Let’s just take a step back.
The original post 9985 from Orikoru was about a team debate from Utds 99 team and yours this season as a combined team.
You said look at it from the last 12 months for both teams.
You also said Gomez would probably get in and emphasised his clean sheets stats.
(My point there would be they are not Gomez stats they are Liverpool’s stats,the whole team working hard,a very good back 4 and a world class keeper.
You then said Stam/Gomez “you would probably side with Stam over the career he had.
So you changed from 12 months to career,well make your mind up.
Now wether we are comparing 12 months or career imo Gomez has achieved nothing it’s all probability.
He’s played 61 league games in 5 years and never scored.
A season is 40 games for a top player in a team fighting on all fronts.
When I asked you what season you were referring to you came up with Winter and Spring.
Seriously.
Anyway on a positive note you must have been pleased with a 1-0 last night?
		
Click to expand...

Lmao Pete sounds like your losing your mind  - Good, will you propose me for the lunatic asylum - just 5 day for me, couldnt do the weekends also like you.
Let’s just take a step back.
The original post 9985 from Orikoru was about a team debate from Utds 99 team and yours this season as a combined team. - Firstly, you've mentioned soft lad, no interest in him, just based on the when Carra and keane were talking about it and the criteria they used.
You said look at it from the last 12 months for both teams. - yes, see above.
You also said Gomez would probably get in and emphasised his clean sheets stats. - Yes, even over the last few months 10 clean sheets in 11 is some form. We hardly had any clean sheets when it was Matip or Lovren alongside VVD this season, which is why Gomez is nearly/just as important as VVD.
(My point there would be they are not Gomez stats they are Liverpool’s stats,the whole team working hard,a very good back 4 and a world class keeper. - see above, hardly any clean sheets when Gomez not in.
You then said Stam/Gomez “you would probably side with Stam over the career he had. - I brought in the "career" thing, cos you wouldnt shut up about it, and as I repeatedly said - people are always going to look at stellar careers of retired players, instead of young players at the start of their career, but it shouldnt be used (or tempered, as much as possible in this discussion). BUT it absolutely shouldnt be trotted out every 2 miniutes like you were doing.
So you changed from 12 months to career,well make your mind up. - used it once for the reason above, not loads of times.
Now wether we are comparing 12 months or career imo Gomez has achieved nothing it’s all probability.  - He has won one CL, same as Jaap Stam and not using Nandrolone - yes, look it up.
He’s played 61 league games in 5 years and never scored. - Why are you judging CH's on goals, it should be further down the list after clean sheets, honours etc. You ignored Giggs goals compared to mane's (a position you should be judging goals and assists on).
A season is 40 games for a top player in a team fighting on all fronts. - Yes, did u know Stam only made 79 appearances for Man U in 3 seasons.......about 26/27 a season on average - did that surprise you.
When I asked you what season you were referring to you came up with Winter and Spring. - Glad you got the joke.
Seriously.
Anyway on a positive note you must have been pleased with a 1-0 last night? Yes.

Anything else?

Disclaimer alert: Any spelling mistakes are probably Tony's, and none of these statistics were supplied from Wikipedia (Milton Keynes branch).

Go on expand on what I've said.......


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 19, 2020)

Wenger's recommendation for VAR and offside is the very worst option put forward so far, even worse than allowing "daylight".

Peter Crouch may come out of retirement now.

Can you imagine a 6ft 7 inch fella doing a diving header and having just his little pinky toe onside, so its okay? Ludicrous.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Wenger's recommendation for VAR and offside is the very worst option put forward so far, even worse than allowing "daylight".

Peter Crouch may come out of retirement now.

Can you imagine a 6ft 7 inch fella doing a diving header and having just his little pinky toe onside, so its okay? Ludicrous.
		
Click to expand...

There isn’t a solution that will please everyone. Imo.
Take VAR out of offside and let the Lino sort it.
Crouchy not a bad shout .


----------



## fundy (Feb 19, 2020)

A tiny chip in each players boots, offside decided purely on where the furthest forward foot is, simple, the chip can even determine exactly when the ball is kicked


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			A tiny chip in each players boots, offside decided purely on where the furthest forward foot is, simple, the chip can even determine exactly when the ball is kicked 

Click to expand...

Enough chips on shoulders in football we don’t need MORE technology.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Lmao Pete sounds like your losing your mind  - Good, will you propose me for the lunatic asylum - just 5 day for me, couldnt do the weekends also like you.
Let’s just take a step back.
The original post 9985 from Orikoru was about a team debate from Utds 99 team and yours this season as a combined team. - Firstly, you've mentioned soft lad, no interest in him, just based on the when Carra and keane were talking about it and the criteria they used.
You said look at it from the last 12 months for both teams. - yes, see above.
You also said Gomez would probably get in and emphasised his clean sheets stats. - Yes, even over the last few months 10 clean sheets in 11 is some form. We hardly had any clean sheets when it was Matip or Lovren alongside VVD this season, which is why Gomez is nearly/just as important as VVD.
(My point there would be they are not Gomez stats they are Liverpool’s stats,the whole team working hard,a very good back 4 and a world class keeper. - see above, hardly any clean sheets when Gomez not in.
You then said Stam/Gomez “you would probably side with Stam over the career he had. - I brought in the "career" thing, cos you wouldnt shut up about it, and as I repeatedly said - people are always going to look at stellar careers of retired players, instead of young players at the start of their career, but it shouldnt be used (or tempered, as much as possible in this discussion). BUT it absolutely shouldnt be trotted out every 2 miniutes like you were doing.
So you changed from 12 months to career,well make your mind up. - used it once for the reason above, not loads of times.
Now wether we are comparing 12 months or career imo Gomez has achieved nothing it’s all probability.  - He has won one CL, same as Jaap Stam and not using Nandrolone - yes, look it up.
He’s played 61 league games in 5 years and never scored. - Why are you judging CH's on goals, it should be further down the list after clean sheets, honours etc. You ignored Giggs goals compared to mane's (a position you should be judging goals and assists on).
A season is 40 games for a top player in a team fighting on all fronts. - Yes, did u know Stam only made 79 appearances for Man U in 3 seasons.......about 26/27 a season on average - did that surprise you.
When I asked you what season you were referring to you came up with Winter and Spring. - Glad you got the joke.
Seriously.
Anyway on a positive note you must have been pleased with a 1-0 last night? Yes.

Anything else?

Disclaimer alert: Any spelling mistakes are probably Tony's, and none of these statistics were supplied from Wikipedia (Milton Keynes branch).

Go on expand on what I've said.......

Click to expand...

Weekends are just spent with other lunatics who think Robertson is better than Irwin 
To be honest let’s leave it there we’ve both said our piece.
Most impressed with your endeavours though.


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 19, 2020)

It's way too early too compare the current Liverpool to United '99. Liverpool could lose a couple of league games, go out of the cups and only end up with the title. Or they could win the league unbeaten, win the FA Cup and the CL.

Greatness is measured by trophies.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 19, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Weekends are just spent with other lunatics who think Robertson is better than Irwin 
To be honest let’s leave it there we’ve both said our piece.
Most impressed with your endeavours though.
		
Click to expand...

Win on away goals for me, then?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 19, 2020)

4LEX said:



			It's way too early too compare the current Liverpool to United '99. Liverpool could lose a couple of league games, go out of the cups and only end up with the title. Or they could win the league unbeaten, win the FA Cup and the CL.

Greatness is measured by trophies.
		
Click to expand...

So is Kleberson better than Gerrard?

Trophy count adds to an argument, not defines it.

George Best won 2 leagues, no FA cups, and 1 European cup win - does that make Dalglish better, then - I doubt many would say that, including my arl fella.


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 19, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			So is Kleberson better than Gerrard?

Trophy count adds to an argument, not defines it.

George Best won 2 leagues, no FA cups, and 1 European cup win - does that make Dalglish better, then - I doubt many would say that, including my arl fella.
		
Click to expand...

Individual player comparisons are slightly different as theres more variables. Comparing great sides is much easier. 

I personally feel United '99 were overrated but United won the trophies to earn greatness. Liverpool have got it all to play for and could become better than both. Or they could fade away and end up as just another name on the PL winners list. Arsenal from 2002-2004 were miles better than the current Liverpool in terms of ability and quality of football, yet they bottled the 2003 title and never did anything in the CL. No one remembers them that highly other than the Invincibles because they didn't win as much as they should have. 

But I do get it's not ALL about trophies. There has to be a balance of quality of football and trophies. That's also why some sides than won doubles are barely remembered.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 19, 2020)

Never mind the United 99 team, what about Chelsea 2005? 95 points only 15 goals conceded, ridiculous. And at least the formation was the same.

Cech
Trent VVD Terry Robertson
Lampard Makelele J.Cole
Salah Drogba Mane​


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 19, 2020)

4LEX said:



			It's way too early too compare the current Liverpool to United '99. Liverpool could lose a couple of league games, go out of the cups and only end up with the title. Or they could win the league unbeaten, win the FA Cup and the CL.

Greatness is measured by trophies.
		
Click to expand...

And with that City won a shed load last year. Wonder where Aguero, KDB, Silva would fit in that. Hows about the rest of Us picking and all time top 11 from all clubs in the prem.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 19, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			And with that City won a shed load last year. Wonder where Aguero, KDB, Silva would fit in that. Hows about the rest of Us picking and all time top 11 from all clubs in the prem.
		
Click to expand...

Le Tiss

plus 10 others for me.


----------



## PieMan (Feb 19, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			And with that City won a shed load last year. Wonder where Aguero, KDB, Silva would fit in that. Hows about the rest of Us picking and all time top 11 from all clubs in the prem.
		
Click to expand...

Christ this thread would be worse than the Brexit one.....

.....although it probably is anyway!!! 😂😂

Still it's a simple one - 1 to 11 will be all Chelsea players!!! 😉😀


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 19, 2020)

All time 

Cech

Neville 
Ferdinand 
VVD
Cole

Keane 
Gerrard
De Bruyne

Henry
Shearer
Suarez


----------



## MegaSteve (Feb 19, 2020)

I'd start with 'the invincibles' and swap out as few as possible...


----------



## 3offTheTee (Feb 19, 2020)

Not want it says in The Telegraph tomorrow morning but would anybody care to guess the attendance at The Etihad tonight?
47999  for me


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 19, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			And with that City won a shed load last year. Wonder where Aguero, KDB, Silva would fit in that. Hows about the rest of Us picking and all time top 11 from all clubs in the prem.
		
Click to expand...

KDB anywhere he likes!


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 19, 2020)

If there’s three empty seats tonight there mine. Am sat at home watching it on the box. I understand I will still have an opinion but it will be a second class stamp opinion as am not watching it at the stadium. 👍


----------



## chrisd (Feb 19, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			If there’s three empty seats tonight there mine. Am sat at home watching it on the box. I understand I will still have an opinion but it will be a second class stamp opinion as am not watching it at the stadium. 👍
		
Click to expand...

Flippin armchair fans 😣😣😣😉


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 19, 2020)

VAR again

Doesn't care once a corner is "won"

Laporte hand ball to win the corner the goal came from


----------



## adam6177 (Feb 19, 2020)

Has there been any kind of statement on the crowd numbers? Ie low turn out  due to fan demonstration?


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 19, 2020)

adam6177 said:



			Has there been any kind of statement on the crowd numbers? Ie low turn out  due to fan demonstration?
		
Click to expand...

there’s no demonstration that I know of.
However a pal has sent me a link where City have sent out an email saying any City supporter who has been to a City game at the Etihad can now buy 3 tickets for the crappyboo final.Dont know if it is fake news.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 19, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			If there’s three empty seats tonight there mine. Am sat at home watching it on the box. I understand I will still have an opinion but it will be a second class stamp opinion as am not watching it at the stadium. 👍
		
Click to expand...

Hallelujah the penny has finally dropped, know your place Tashy 😁😁


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 19, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Individual player comparisons are slightly different as theres more variables. Comparing great sides is much easier.

I personally feel United '99 were overrated but United won the trophies to earn greatness. Liverpool have got it all to play for and could become better than both. Or they could fade away and end up as just another name on the PL winners list. Arsenal from 2002-2004 were miles better than the current Liverpool in terms of ability and quality of football, yet they bottled the 2003 title and never did anything in the CL. No one remembers them that highly other than the Invincibles because they didn't win as much as they should have.

But I do get it's not ALL about trophies. There has to be a balance of quality of football and trophies. That's also why some sides than won doubles are barely remembered.
		
Click to expand...

Thank you.

I mainly agree on the quality of football (attractiveness) of Arsenal, but not in terms of ability, as surely its the ability to win games that should matter. Your right, we could just end up with the league, nowt else.

Record points total is still a good possibility though, and also being an invincible team. Lets face it we could be unbeaten for 37 games, not be invincible, but 109 points would still throw up the argument of who was better. We could technically win 36 games, lose one draw one, have 109 points but for me in most ways thats more impressive than an invincible season of 90 points with 12 draws. I would love to go invincible, BTW.

Given a 109 point or an invincible season, would be a tough decision. An invincible season is extremely rare in the modern age, but so is 100+points. 109 could possibly never be done again in my lifetime, who knows, although the other has been done.

Now based on that seasons play (ONLY!!!!!!!) for the Arsenal team and this one for us (so far), I would go with:-

            Alison
TAA - VVD - Gomez - Cole

    Viera G.Silva

         Pires
Salah Henry Mane

4-2-3-1

Tough calls were Gilberto Silva/henderson or Fabinho as the midfield "2"

Gomez or Kolo Toure. 

I think the top 3 are irrefutable, but you could have gone with Pires or Firminho in the hole, Bergkamp as the outsider, as although a great creator, he only scored 4 league goals in the league in that season.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Hallelujah the penny has finally dropped, know your place Tashy 😁😁
		
Click to expand...

Am married, I certainly know my place 🤔😖😁


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 19, 2020)

Junior said:



			We did mate.  We chased him until the end, but, Riola's deal with Dortmund is crazy.    They bought him for 18 mil and anything they get for him over 20m goes to Riola.   Dortmund get a class player for a couple of years and 2m profit.  Not a bad deal if you look at it in the short term,   I'm not if UTD were offered the same deal , but were probably arrogant in their discussions with Riaola given the relationship the club has with this particular agent, and the comments he is making about the club.
		
Click to expand...

I read somewhere that the £18mil is onlt the fee that Salzburg got - there was another £10mil to his dad and £15mil to Riola ? Then the money after when he leaves ! Football needs to do something about the agents


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 19, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Am married, I certainly know my place 🤔😖😁
		
Click to expand...

What was mrs Ts opinion of the match.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 19, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			What was mrs Ts opinion of the match.
		
Click to expand...

she’s ok as long as I don’t mention Gabriel Jesus 😖


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2020)

So  Barcelona have managed to sign a player from Leganes. A team who are in a relegation battle. The Spanish FA have refused Leganes permission to sign a replacement.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			So  Barcelona have managed to sign a player from Leganes. A team who are in a relegation battle. The Spanish FA have refused Leganes permission to sign a replacement.
		
Click to expand...

As well they shouldn’t. Leganes shouldn’t have sold!


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			So  Barcelona have managed to sign a player from Leganes. A team who are in a relegation battle. The Spanish FA have refused Leganes permission to sign a replacement.
		
Click to expand...

Well they weren't forced to sell the original player were they? They could have declined.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Well they weren't forced to sell the original player were they? They could have declined.
		
Click to expand...

The whole point of this sucks, Barca play said replacement so he can play against 🤔 Leganes, then 3 days later in the champs league, Greisman who is rested scores a hat trick v Spurs. How’s that right. Thought Barca had a brilliant acadamy. How many times have we said if a players head is turned, then let him go.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 20, 2020)

https://www.football365.com/news/barcelona-martin-braithwaite-la-liga-opinion 

Thats what happens when clubs with untold wealth can influence beyond what is fair.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



https://www.football365.com/news/barcelona-martin-braithwaite-la-liga-opinion

Thats what happens when clubs with untold wealth can influence beyond what is fair.
		
Click to expand...

Nothing illegal and all if’s and buts.

Maybe Braithwaite could of gone on strike.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 20, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



https://www.football365.com/news/barcelona-martin-braithwaite-la-liga-opinion

Thats what happens when clubs with untold wealth can influence beyond what is fair.
		
Click to expand...

Like Liverpool turning VVD’s head?


----------



## Blakey (Feb 20, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Well they weren't forced to sell the original player were they? They could have declined.
		
Click to expand...

Yes they pretty much were, it works slightly differantly in Spain, but essentally the players release clause was met so nothing they can do.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2020)

Blakey said:



			Yes they pretty much were, it works slightly differantly in Spain, but essentally the players release clause was met so nothing they can do.
		
Click to expand...

So they met the release clause, made the player an offer, player says yes!

Still don’t see what Barca did wrong, I agree morally it might smell as Leganes are at the bottom, but would people still be bothered if Leganes were mid-table.


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			And with that City won a shed load last year. Wonder where Aguero, KDB, Silva would fit in that. Hows about the rest of Us picking and all time top 11 from all clubs in the prem.
		
Click to expand...

City are an interesting one as you were four games from winning The Quadruple and are definitely underrated. Great football, attitude and won trophies. Ticks all the boxes for me. It's crazy that without the Kompany goal we'd be sat here saying 4 years and only 1 title is a failure for City given they've had Pep and spent vast amounts. Yet on the other hand one VAR call off probably winning something no team has ever done 

Man Utd 93-95
Newcastle 94-96
Man Utd 99-2001
Arsenal 2002-2004
Chelsea 2004-2006
Man Utd 2007-2009
City 18-current
Liverpool 19-current

These are the great teams of the PL era for me. A few others come close and maybe some bias towards Newcastle but they sum up glorious failure and the type of football I love. All out attack with flying wingers, box to box central midfielders and two strikers. I was too young to really remember them and the first United though but what the hell I've seen enough of them.

I didn't rate United in the latter years of Ferguson or Chelsea of that era yet both picked up loads of trophies. City from 12-14 were a good side but not great either.

My all time PL side based on quality, longevity and success....

Cech

G Neville
Ferdinand
Kompany
A Cole

Keane
Scholes
Gerrard

Ronaldo
Shearer
Henry


----------



## Blakey (Feb 20, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So they met the release clause, made the player an offer, player says yes!

Still don’t see what Barca did wrong, I agree morally it might smell as Leganes are at the bottom, but would people still be bothered if Leganes were mid-table.
		
Click to expand...

they didn't break any rules, but like you say morally its a bit unfair.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2020)

Blakey said:



			they didn't break any rules, but like you say morally its a bit unfair.
		
Click to expand...

Very few morals left in the professional game sadly.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 20, 2020)

4LEX said:



			City are an interesting one as you were four games from winning The Quadruple and are definitely underrated. Great football, attitude and won trophies. Ticks all the boxes for me. It's crazy that without the Kompany goal we'd be sat here saying 4 years and only 1 title is a failure for City given they've had Pep and spent vast amounts. Yet on the other hand one VAR call off probably winning something no team has ever done 

Man Utd 93-95
Newcastle 94-96
Man Utd 99-2001
Arsenal 2002-2004
Chelsea 2004-2006
Man Utd 2007-2009
City 18-current
Liverpool 19-current

These are the great teams of the PL era for me. A few others come close and maybe some bias towards Newcastle but they sum up glorious failure and the type of football I love. All out attack with flying wingers, box to box central midfielders and two strikers. I was too young to really remember them and the first United though but what the hell I've seen enough of them.

I didn't rate United in the latter years of Ferguson or Chelsea of that era yet both picked up loads of trophies. City from 12-14 were a good side but not great either.

My all time PL side based on quality, longevity and success....

Cech

G Neville
Ferdinand
Kompany
A Cole

Keane
Scholes
Gerrard

Ronaldo
Shearer
Henry



Click to expand...

Terry in for Ferdinand. I think Aguero deserves to be in it as well - has to be ahead of Ronaldo really.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 20, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So they met the release clause, made the player an offer, player says yes!

Still don’t see what Barca did wrong, I agree morally it might smell as Leganes are at the bottom, but would people still be bothered if Leganes were mid-table.
		
Click to expand...

The two things for me are the way Real and Barca still get way more money than the other teams in TV money, the second being the loophole that they "exploited".


----------



## fundy (Feb 20, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			The two things for me are the way Real and Madrid still get way more money than the other teams in TV money, the second being the loophole that they "exploited".
		
Click to expand...

definitely unfair that Real and Madrid get extra


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2020)

Means nowt to me but Everton home shirts £16.50 on there site. Flash sale.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2020)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51571016
oh dear oh dear, the people that run football fiddling. Who would of thought that.


----------



## Fish (Feb 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Means nowt to me but Everton home shirts £16.50 on there site. Flash sale.
		
Click to expand...

£16 too much 😜


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2020)

Fish said:



			£16 too much 😜
		
Click to expand...

😳🤔😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## fundy (Feb 20, 2020)

wouldve liked to see Ceballos (and Pepe) get more game time, especially with no Ozil, not sure why were playing Mustafi at right back either tbh


----------



## Blakey (Feb 20, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			The two things for me are the way Real and Madrid still get way more money than the other teams in TV money, the second being the loophole that they "exploited".
		
Click to expand...

It's not a loophole, all teams in Spain are allowed to make 'emergency' signings outside of the transfer window.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			The two things for me are the way Real and Madrid still get way more money than the other teams in TV money, the second being the loophole that they "exploited".
		
Click to expand...

Surely the signing of Braithwaite and the TV money are 2 separate discussions, I read the link you posted and apart from showing RM and Barca have more money I don’t see the link from TV money and the loophole they exploited, unless he was trying to argue Legarnes would of been able to resist the Barca approach, but then he couldn’t of been as the release clause was met and surely that wasn’t because of TV money.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Surely the signing of Braithwaite and the TV money are 2 separate discussions, I read the link you posted and apart from showing RM and Barca have more money I don’t see the link from TV money and the loophole they exploited, unless he was trying to argue Legarnes would of been able to resist the Barca approach, but then he couldn’t of been as the release clause was met and surely that wasn’t because of TV money.

Click to expand...

my lad was saying earlier that all players in Spain have to have a release clause figure in there contracts. If that is met, then the player can go. I get that, fully understand that. Even for a failed Boro player with £15 million on his head.  But player leaves club and club can not replace. How’s that right.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			my lad was saying earlier that all players in Spain have to have a release clause figure in there contracts. If that is met, then the player can go. I get that, fully understand that. Even for a failed Boro player with £15 million on his head.  But player leaves club and club can not replace. How’s that right.
		
Click to expand...

Because of the circumstances (loophole) Barca met. Read Liverbirdie’s link, that explains it.


----------



## fundy (Feb 20, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Because of the circumstances (loophole) Barca met. Read Liverbirdie’s link, that explains it.
		
Click to expand...

it part explains it, but Barca chose not to buy in January, chose to release 2 strikers and if you believe most are completely overstating Dembeles injury, but hey its Barca, crack on and dont worry about poor old Leganes.

as for Braithwaite who will be cast aside by Barca at the end of the season, hope he enjoys his 3 or 4 games lol


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 20, 2020)

Don't like Auba on the right.


----------



## fundy (Feb 20, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Don't like Auba on the right.
		
Click to expand...

utterly wasted trying to provide some cover for a centre half at right back, get him down the middle where he can cause the most damage

no fan of xhaka and doozi in the middle either or Luiz and Mustafi at CH. Pretty horrid line up full stop tbh


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2020)

fundy said:



			it part explains it, but Barca chose not to buy in January, chose to release 2 strikers and if you believe most are completely overstating Dembeles injury, but hey its Barca, crack on and dont worry about poor old Leganes.

as for Braithwaite who will be cast aside by Barca at the end of the season, hope he enjoys his 3 or 4 games lol
		
Click to expand...

I’ve said it is morally wrong, but Barca still haven’t done anything illegal.
They looked about, seen a player on form and gone for him as a cheap, short term replacement.
As I said before if Leganes were mid-table there’d be less fuss.
I don’t think the reason they’ve gone for Braithwaite is because Leganes are bottom.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Means nowt to me but Everton home shirts £16.50 on there site. Flash sale.
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps your club could have one regarding seat prices.
Half full last night


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Means nowt to me but Everton home shirts £16.50 on there site. Flash sale.
		
Click to expand...

Cheeky boy 🤔. New sponsor for next year.


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 20, 2020)

Hmm. Not happy with Laca there.


----------



## fundy (Feb 20, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Hmm. Not happy with Laca there.
		
Click to expand...

ceballos for xhaka and maitlin niles for laca plse, play MN on right hand side and move Aubam up top

oh and stop Luiz wasting FKs plse


----------



## fundy (Feb 20, 2020)

some hit from Neves and a cracking result for Wolves


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2020)

Rangers back to 2-2 from 2-0 down, could a cracking last 10 minutes.


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 20, 2020)

Nice goal. Auba on the left is better than Auba on the right.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Rangers back to 2-2 from 2-0 down, could a cracking last 10 minutes.
		
Click to expand...

Anyone want the Lottery numbers 3-2 Rangers.


----------



## fundy (Feb 20, 2020)

fair play to Aubameyang, still prepared to work his socks off despite being played out of position

sigh Xhaka doesnt change


----------



## fundy (Feb 20, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Nice goal. Auba on the left is better than Auba on the right.
		
Click to expand...

Auba down the middle is the trump card still!


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Cheeky boy 🤔. New sponsor for next year.
		
Click to expand...

That's cheap for a shirt though.

New stadium looks nice, would be the best in Merseyside 🤔😁👍


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 20, 2020)

fundy said:



			definitely unfair that Real and Madrid get extra 

Click to expand...

Twice as much as Barca, then.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 20, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I’ve said it is morally wrong, but Barca still haven’t done anything illegal.
They looked about, seen a player on form and gone for him as a cheap, short term replacement.
As I said before if Leganes were mid-table there’d be less fuss.
I don’t think the reason they’ve gone for Braithwaite is because Leganes are bottom.
		
Click to expand...

Yes not illegal, but unsavoury, and all filters back to the bic lubs like Barca getting too big a share of the TV money. Probably one of the associated reasons to why Leganes may have lower release clauses on their players.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 21, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			That's cheap for a shirt though.

New stadium looks nice, would be the best in Merseyside 🤔😁👍
		
Click to expand...

It is but it's a shirt design I don't like. Maybe others feel the same 😁. To be fair how many shirts do get sold Feb onwards when fans know they are being changed in July? Add in we don't get tourist fans so once you pass the start of the season and Christmas I don't know that they would sell many.

Stadium looks excellent. A good amount of thought has gone into it to keep the atmospherics, the location will look dramatic and they have been able to see the good and bad from other new builds and learn. The trickiest bit is moving that many people in and out of the ground on match day, it's bad going along there now without another 50k people, but I believe there is something in the planning about that. It's a major weakness of the location so hopefully it has been properly addressed and not brushed under the carpet. It will certainly be fitting for Carlo to place the PL trophy in the cabinet 🏆😂. Better than playing in a bodge job with extensions added every few years as well 😉


----------



## Bazzatron (Feb 21, 2020)

We're going to win the Europa league this year and then the Champions League next year.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 21, 2020)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-51580401

😂😂👏👏👏👏


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			it part explains it, but Barca chose not to buy in January, chose to release 2 strikers and if you believe most are completely overstating Dembeles injury, but hey its Barca, crack on and dont worry about poor old Leganes.

as for Braithwaite who will be cast aside by Barca at the end of the season, hope he enjoys his 3 or 4 games lol
		
Click to expand...

Dembele will not be able to play again this season now anyway as part of the rule. But, I agree, it's a stupid ruling. You have a squad of 25 players and this means you can make sure you're covered for injuries - just like it works in England. I think 'emergency signings' should only be allowed if you get two goalies injured, because you're not really going to stockpile on keepers for that eventuality. And it does stink that Leganes have now lost a player that they _couldn't_ account for because it's outside the window. I forgot about the release clauses in Spain before. I'm still not even sure how Barca met the requirements for an emergency transfer when they have Messi and Griezmann still fit in attack.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 21, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			That's cheap for a shirt though.

New stadium looks nice, would be the best in Merseyside 🤔😁👍
		
Click to expand...

The season's nearly finished, loads of teams start lowering the shirt prices towards the end of the season as they'll only be current for another 3 or 4 months. I got an email from Spurs this week saying it's 25% off on away kits now.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 21, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-51580401

😂😂👏👏👏👏
		
Click to expand...

You have to say very classy of Klopp. Top man


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 21, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			You have to say very classy of Klopp. Top man

Click to expand...

would that be this story you are on about, made me chuckle.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-51580401


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 21, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			would that be this story you are on about, made me chuckle.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-51580401

Click to expand...

That is the same link that he just quoted man, are you drunk?? It's a bit early..


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 21, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			That is the same link that he just quoted man, are you drunk?? It's a bit early..
		
Click to expand...

there’s no link come through on my page, still no link. 😳


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 21, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			there’s no link come through on my page, still no link. 😳
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 21, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			That is the same link that he just quoted man, are you drunk?? It's a bit early..
		
Click to expand...

He has Phil on ignore.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 21, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			He has Phil on ignore.

Click to expand...

 Oh. Well there's a prime reason why I don't use that function.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 21, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1230778374689378306


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 21, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1230778374689378306

Click to expand...

That's great.  I wish I could remember who the player was, but someone Real Madrid signed once did like 3 kick-ups before miscontrolling it and just hoofing it into the crowd.


----------



## sam85 (Feb 21, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			That's great.  I wish I could remember who the player was, but someone Real Madrid signed once did like 3 kick-ups before miscontrolling it and just hoofing it into the crowd.
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/884526224466464768


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 21, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			He has Phil on ignore.

Click to expand...

I thought it was me, or do we come as a pair?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 21, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I thought it was me, or do we come as a pair? 

Click to expand...

I think I was first when I was critical about City and then you might have followed afterwards 😁


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 21, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think I was first when I was critical about City and then you might have followed afterwards 😁
		
Click to expand...

First loser, or second tosser?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 21, 2020)

@Tashyboy Liverbirdie & LiverpoolPhil want to know which one of them is/was the first loser or second tosser?


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 21, 2020)

sam85 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/884526224466464768

Click to expand...

that looks like they have signed me on. 😳


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 21, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



@Tashyboy Liverbirdie & LiverpoolPhil want to know which one of them is/was the first loser or second tosser?
		
Click to expand...

😂 neither there 3rd and 4th 🤔😳😁


----------



## Fish (Feb 21, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I thought it was me, or do we come as a pair? 

Click to expand...

A pair of what 🤔


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 21, 2020)

[


Fish said:



			A pair of what 🤔
		
Click to expand...

🤔😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 21, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			He has Phil on ignore.

Click to expand...

Dont we all??

🤭🤭


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 21, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1230893633487937536😲😬


----------



## Dando (Feb 21, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1230893633487937536😲😬
		
Click to expand...

Can you imagine a male player doing that?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 21, 2020)

Dando said:



			Can you imagine a male player doing that?
		
Click to expand...

Seen a male golfer put his dislocated ankle back in and carry on playing.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 21, 2020)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/africa/51566935


----------



## fundy (Feb 21, 2020)

Dando said:



			Can you imagine a male player doing that?
		
Click to expand...

wish my kneecap had looked like that when I dislocated it!!!!! Took me a while to find it, hiding behind my testicle! Actually thats where they told me where it was, I was out cold by then haha. So no, cant imagine a male player doing that


----------



## fundy (Feb 21, 2020)

some bloke called Rooney just scored a panenka style penalty on his 500th senior appearance!!!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			some bloke called Rooney just scored a panenka style penalty on his 500th senior appearance!!!
		
Click to expand...

No need for that!!!

Typical bloody Fulham. Must be easier teams to support


----------



## fundy (Feb 21, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			No need for that!!!

Typical bloody Fulham. Must be easier teams to support
		
Click to expand...

well youve been better than last weekend lol!


----------



## fundy (Feb 21, 2020)

there you go Homie


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 21, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			😂 neither there 3rd and 4th 🤔😳😁
		
Click to expand...

Well even 5th place get CL this year, so thats good going.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 21, 2020)

Fish said:



			A pair of what 🤔
		
Click to expand...

Half-wits?

I'll leave it up to you if that's cockney rhyming slang for something else.....or not.


----------



## Fish (Feb 22, 2020)

Interesting day, who’s fit is going to be critical for us. Could see us sliding a few places as everyone around us has home bankers, but that scenario will reverse itself in the weeks ahead, so I’m still confident we’ll get a CL place, even though all the odds have been against us from the start, but injuries with a young and weakened squad is taking its toll. 

Just like Liverpool needed a strong defender (VVD) we just need a clinical goal scorer, everything else is there or there abouts with just a bit of gone tuning required.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 22, 2020)

That’s surely a red card ? Or at the very least a yellow card - over the ball and studs on shin ?


----------



## fundy (Feb 22, 2020)

thats not a red card? seriously? what is the point lol


----------



## PieMan (Feb 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			thats not a red card? seriously? what is the point lol
		
Click to expand...

Truly unbelievable! 🤔🤬


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 22, 2020)

What has happened to Spurs - no strikers and must be a bad situation when Aurier is having to come on - Chelsea aren’t great but making Spurs look ordinary

I understand they have a young Irish striker who is banging them in - so why not play him ? Ah of course Mourinho is manager

And LeCelso finally gets a card when he shouldn’t even be still on the pitch

Edit - and now the VAR say it should have been a red card ?!! What a joke .


----------



## fundy (Feb 22, 2020)

so Stockley park now claim they got it wrong and he shouldve been off. Walton doesnt know whether to stick or twist haha


----------



## adam6177 (Feb 22, 2020)

I can't remember who it was the other day saying that spurs players wouldn't go down if they could get a shot away.... We'll watch today's game and tell me that winks, Sanchez and Moura havent gone down looking for a penalty rather than getting a shot away. It MUST have been coached into them to act like this... Absolute craziness.


----------



## Bazzatron (Feb 22, 2020)

Wtf was david Coote doing for the two minutes the game was stopped? It took one look to see it was red. 

Mike Reilly was a dreadful referee, even worse now he's in charge of the rest.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 22, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Wtf was david Coote doing for the two minutes the game was stopped? It took one look to see it was red.

Mike Reilly was a dreadful referee, even worse now he's in charge of the rest.
		
Click to expand...

This theme of refs not looking at screens is that latest rammel thing re VAR. The game has stopped, why has he not gone to the screen. You can blame VAR all you want but it’s the ref that choose not to have a look. Why did the guys at Stockley not advise the ref to have a look.


----------



## Slime (Feb 22, 2020)

Just seen the tackle in question, simply disgusting.


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 22, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			This theme of refs not looking at screens is that latest rammel thing re VAR. The game has stopped, why has he not gone to the screen. You can blame VAR all you want but it’s the ref that choose not to have a look. Why did the guys at Stockley not advise the ref to have a look.
		
Click to expand...

They didn’t need to advise him they needed to tell him(simple).


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 22, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			They didn’t need to advise him they needed to tell him(simple).
		
Click to expand...

But I  said during the Chelsea v Utd game. There were two incidents then that the ref should of gone to the screen. He didnt, why? Why have refs since then not been instructed to go to the screens. It's ok saying he may get a  retrospective ban. But that ban should of started with a red if it was a red.


----------



## fundy (Feb 22, 2020)

Lo Celso not to face retrospective action as it was seen by the match officials and VAR


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			Lo Celso not to face retrospective action as it was seen by the match officials and VAR 

Click to expand...

Nowt to do with the fact we screwed up and would only embarrass ourselves even more 🤔


----------



## fundy (Feb 22, 2020)

VAR sees handball differently depending on which end its at tonight lol


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 22, 2020)

Maybe it should be Varchester City 🤔

How they can give one penalty but not the other I have no idea


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 22, 2020)

Ronaldo equals another record https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51598794


----------



## Jensen (Feb 22, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What has happened to Spurs - no strikers and must be a bad situation when Aurier is having to come on - Chelsea aren’t great but making Spurs look ordinary

I understand they have a young Irish striker who is banging them in - so why not play him ? Ah of course Mourinho is manager

And LeCelso finally gets a card when he shouldn’t even be still on the pitch

Edit - and now the VAR say it should have been a red card ?!! What a joke .
		
Click to expand...

Jose Mourinho, Jose Mourinho 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Daniel Levy, you've dropped one hell of a bollock


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 22, 2020)

As daft as it seems I would of liked to see tonight’s game end a draw. Would like to see Leicester finish in the top four. We know the title is going west of Manchester, so a couple of dropped points is neither here nor there now.


----------



## Jensen (Feb 22, 2020)

adam6177 said:



			I can't remember who it was the other day saying that spurs players wouldn't go down if they could get a shot away.... We'll watch today's game and tell me that winks, Sanchez and Moura havent gone down looking for a penalty rather than getting a shot away. It MUST have been coached into them to act like this... Absolute craziness.
		
Click to expand...

Jose clearly coaching well 🙁👎


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 22, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Jose clearly coaching well 🙁👎
		
Click to expand...

Of course. He is the special one although that "special" talent seems more and more to prevent youngsters developing and sucking the quality out of the top players


----------



## Fish (Feb 22, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Jose Mourinho, Jose Mourinho 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Daniel Levy, you've dropped one hell of a bollock
		
Click to expand...

Frank 3 - Jose 0 😏


----------



## GG26 (Feb 22, 2020)

Anyone got any views on the Emerson assault on Iheanacho.  Only saw it in real time from around 25 yards away, but looked a foul to me.

Also, how was a penalty not given for handball against de Breuyne, yet the one against Preat was given?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 22, 2020)

so one a penalty the other one not ?!🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2020)

Can’t imagine this happening in the PL. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1230968294678712320


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 29241

so one a penalty the other one not ?!🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

It was explained at the time by Carragher on TV and here’s an extract from the FIFA site:

As a rule, raising your arms to protect yourself from a speeding ball is not classed as intentional handball. Making that instant distinction is a crucial part of good soccer refereeing.

Your picture clearly shows De Bruyne protecting his face, Praett had his arms raised in an unnatural position.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 22, 2020)

Take out the VAR farce, and go back to when referees had sole decision making powers, but how many games have we been to where one of those pictures above is given and the other isn't? We'd moan like buggery if it was given against our team and loved it when we got the decision and it'll be analysed on SSN and MOTD but people just accepted the referee "gave what he saw"

Now with VAR and so many angles and input from the idiots at Stockley there is so much more inconsistency in decisions the whole system was brought into solve. Is the handball rule another with the "silhouette" and intent another that has simply got too difficult to get right every time? Is football and the laws becoming as complicated to interpret as the rules of golf and what happened to the beautiful game


----------



## ColchesterFC (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It was explained at the time by Carragher on TV and here’s an extract from the FIFA site:

As a rule, raising your arms to protect yourself from a speeding ball is not classed as intentional handball. Making that instant distinction is a crucial part of good soccer refereeing.

*Your picture clearly shows De Bruyne protecting his face, Praett had his arms raised in an unnatural position.*

Click to expand...

Have you seen the video of the incident? The ball isn't heading towards De Bruyne's face. It's going past him and towards the goal. The ball is travelling from right to left in that still image and is moving away from his face.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It was explained at the time by Carragher on TV and here’s an extract from the FIFA site:

As a rule, raising your arms to protect yourself from a speeding ball is not classed as intentional handball. Making that instant distinction is a crucial part of good soccer refereeing.

Your picture clearly shows De Bruyne protecting his face, Praett had his arms raised in an unnatural position.
		
Click to expand...

The players do know that they can either head the ball using that bit above their face or jump out of the way.

Is that an actual rule or interpretation because that opens up people to be able to handball it whenever they wish

But I don’t think the ball was going at KBD face though


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Have you seen the video of the incident? The ball isn't heading towards De Bruyne's face. It's going past him and towards the goal. The ball is travelling from right to left in that still image and is moving away from his face.
		
Click to expand...

I watched the game from my comfy armchair, look at the position of both arms, it’s a natural reaction to cross both arms when protecting yourself, either your face or between your legs, the speed the ball moved he reacted naturally to me, personally I think people are looking for VAR problems were they don’t exist, there’s enough of them without looking for extras.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It was explained at the time by Carragher on TV and here’s an extract from the FIFA site:

As a rule, raising your arms to protect yourself from a speeding ball is not classed as intentional handball. Making that instant distinction is a crucial part of good soccer refereeing.

Your picture clearly shows De Bruyne protecting his face, Praett had his arms raised in an unnatural position.
		
Click to expand...

I totally agree with what you say but do you think that with VAR and referees over reliance on it to give them a "correct" decision this distinction and interpretation made in the split second of the game has gone away and so every decision is becoming "sterile" now and this is what is leading to so many inconsistencies


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The players do know that they can either head the ball using that bit above their face or jump out of the way.

Is that an actual rule or interpretation because that opens up people to be able to handball it whenever they wish

But I don’t think the ball was going at KBD face though
		
Click to expand...

That’s always been in place and was clarified as to why it wasn’t given during commentary.
I don’t think De Bruyne or any footballer would be stupid enough to think he could head the ball but decide to cross his arms and deflect it instead.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I totally agree with what you say but do you think that with VAR and referees over reliance on it to give them a "correct" decision this distinction and interpretation made in the split second of the game has gone away and so every decision is becoming "sterile" now and this is what is leading to so many inconsistencies
		
Click to expand...

No I don’t, I believe our Officials need to improve, but if both the guy on the pitch and the one in the booth think it’s a natural protective reaction, then why the fuss? It’s been used correctly.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I watched the game from my comfy armchair, look at the position of both arms, *it’s a natural reaction to cross both arms when protecting yourself*, either your face or between your legs, the speed the ball moved he reacted naturally to me, personally I think people are looking for VAR problems were they don’t exist, there’s enough of them without looking for extras.
		
Click to expand...

But he's not protecting himself. If his hands hadn't been there the ball would've missed him. How can you be protecting yourself from a ball that wouldn't have hit you?


----------



## sam85 (Feb 22, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Jose Mourinho, Jose Mourinho 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Daniel Levy, you've dropped one hell of a bollock
		
Click to expand...

As a neutral I'm struggling to see how it could be argued that spurs havent improved under Mourinho 🤔


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			But he's not protecting himself. If his hands hadn't been there the ball would've missed him. How can you be protecting yourself from a ball that wouldn't have hit you?
		
Click to expand...

Then I’ll agree to disagree.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			No I don’t, I believe our Officials need to improve, but if both the guy on the pitch and the one in the booth think it’s a natural protective reaction, then why the fuss? It’s been used correctly.
		
Click to expand...

But how do we improve the officials? They are full time, fully trained and de-briefed after every game. How do we make them better and also improve the idiots with VAR who were referees themselves and not all of them were that good


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 22, 2020)

sam85 said:



			As a neutral I'm struggling to see how it could be argued that spurs havent improved under Mourinho 🤔
		
Click to expand...

Pretty sure ot was said last week that since his arrival, only Liverpool have accrued more PL points. I think its always been popular to criticise him. 

Pep/Jose is similar to Ronaldo Messi imo.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But how do we improve the officials? They are full time, fully trained and de-briefed after every game. How do we make them better and also improve the idiots with VAR who were referees themselves and not all of them were that good
		
Click to expand...

It’s the first season of VAR in the PL, it’s been shocking at times, but, it will get better just like it has in the countries around Europe that are using it for the 2nd season, all teams have had decisions go for and against them.

I don’t think it’s affected the League positions overall and, it’s here to stay.


----------



## sam85 (Feb 22, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Pretty sure ot was said last week that since his arrival, only Liverpool have accrued more PL points. I think its always been popular to criticise him.

Pep/Jose is similar to Ronaldo Messi imo.
		
Click to expand...

I was/am a big fan of pochettinho and what he managed at spurs but for whatever reason they'd stagnated/declined under him and for me it was the right time for a change. Love him or hate him theres still very few better than Mourinho in the premiership for me


----------



## ColchesterFC (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Then I’ll agree to disagree.

Click to expand...

It's good that you've accepted that you are wrong.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 22, 2020)

If the excuse of covering your face is acceptable then imo the calls were right.

A freeze frame can show almost anything, only saw it this afternoon, but imo he blocks his face and then naturally turns as all players do as the ball is passing them. His hands are still rasied as its in one motion, so doesn't constitute a foul.

Agree that most would still want if for their team. Anyways, City missed theirs and Vardy is just as bad. So probably all level anyways


----------



## Piece (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s the first season of VAR in the PL, it’s been shocking at times, but, it will get better just like it has in the countries around Europe that are using it for the 2nd season, all teams have had decisions go for and against them.

I don’t think it’s affected the League positions overall and, it’s here to stay.
		
Click to expand...

Yup. VAR’s goal at the beginning of the season was to improve decisions from 82 to around 87%. This means 13% error rate still could be in play and we’ve seen that. For me, it has got more of the decisions right. Yes, officials need to improve but not as much as some fans’ knowledge of VAR and the rules of football. The Premier League website has a good page on VAR and clears up quite a lot of the rubbish I’ve seen on this site about VAR. VAR is here and will improve.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			If the excuse of covering your face is acceptable then imo the calls were right.

A freeze frame can show almost anything, only saw it this afternoon, but imo he blocks his face and then naturally turns as all players do as the ball is passing them. His hands are still rasied as its in one motion, so doesn't constitute a foul.

Agree that most would still want if for their team. Anyways, City missed theirs and Vardy is just as bad. So probably all level anyways 

Click to expand...

I genuinely can’t think of another reason to cross your arms like that, if it had been one arm or the arms separated even with the same motive, I’d of said penalty, but watching it in real time and then on the slow mo’s, I thought it was the right call.


----------



## Swingalot (Feb 22, 2020)

Pretty sure I heard a well respected forum member on 5 live tonight on the way back from Selhurst commenting on VAR after he has been at the Bridge today. Fair to say not impressed with it! 

On a side note, Newcastle were truly awful today. We played well, but wow they looked happy with a 1-0 defeat, which in a game against a team in the bottom half is not a good sign!  their squad is one of weakest in the league imo.


----------



## sam85 (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I genuinely can’t think of another reason to cross your arms like that, if it had been one arm or the arms separated even with the same motive, I’d of said penalty, but watching it in real time and then on the slow mo’s, I thought it was the right call.
		
Click to expand...

I only saw the one that lead to a city penalty but the second I saw thw replay I knew it was going to be given as a penalty. Personally I dont agree with it being given, but with the rules as they are it had to be a penalty.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2020)

sam85 said:



			I only saw the one that lead to a city penalty but the second I saw thw replay I knew it was going to be given as a penalty. Personally I dont agree with it being given, but with the rules as they are it had to be a penalty.
		
Click to expand...

I reckon anytime you raise a hand above your head out to the side and a ball hits it, they are going to say penalty, it’s not seen as a natural position.


----------



## sam85 (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I reckon anytime you raise a hand above your head out to the side and a ball hits it, they are going to say penalty, it’s not seen as a natural position.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, as I say I thought the city pen was massively harsh imo, but the rules as they currently are it had to be given


----------



## ColchesterFC (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I reckon anytime you *raise a hand above your head out to the side and a ball hits it*, they are going to say penalty, it’s not seen as a natural position.
		
Click to expand...

At the risk of continuing our previous disagreement.... if you look at the two stills from Phil's earlier post it shows that De Bruyne has his hands out to the side and above his head (which you said wasn't a penalty) but the Leicester player has his hand out to the side but not above his head (which you've said was a penalty).

EDIT - for clarity I think both should have been given as penalties.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			At the risk of continuing our previous disagreement.... if you look at the two stills from Phil's earlier post it shows that De Bruyne has his hands out to the side and above his head (which you said wasn't a penalty) but the Leicester player has his hand out to the side but not above his head (which you've said was a penalty).
		
Click to expand...

Still happy to agree to disagree, Phil’s still shows Praet’s arm away from the body and his hand above (maybe level) with his head, absolutely still not the same thing.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Still happy to agree to disagree, Phil’s still shows Praet’s arm away from the body and his hand above (maybe level) with his head, absolutely still not the same thing.

Click to expand...

I've been doing my VAR thing with the lines which clearly shows that from where I've chosen to draw the lines one is clearly above the head and the other below......


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I've been doing my VAR thing with the lines which clearly shows that from where I've chosen to draw the lines one is clearly above the head and the other below......

View attachment 29242

Click to expand...

Give us your address mate, I’ve got some spare straws you can clutch at.

What part of they are not the same do you not see? Praet is in no way protecting his face, De Bruyne is facing a free kick, which Madison is trying to bend (bend) over the wall, De Bruyne thinks the ball is coming at his face and instantly raises his arms to protect himself.

Just seen on MOTD, the Referee in the replay of the ball hitting De Bruyne’s hands raises his arms in a crossing motion to show he believed De Bruyne was protecting himself.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 22, 2020)

GG26 said:



			Anyone got any views on the Emerson assault on Iheanacho.  Only saw it in real time from around 25 yards away, but looked a foul to me.

Also, how was a penalty not given for handball against de Breuyne, yet the one against Preat was given?
		
Click to expand...

All 3 were pens.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Feb 22, 2020)

Swingalot said:



*Pretty sure I heard a well respected forum member on 5 live tonight on the way back from Selhurst commenting on VAR after he has been at the Bridge today. Fair to say not impressed with it!*

On a side note, Newcastle were truly awful today. We played well, but wow they looked happy with a 1-0 defeat, which in a game against a team in the bottom half is not a good sign!  their squad is one of weakest in the league imo.
		
Click to expand...

Well respected?  No, not me guv!


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I watched the game from my comfy armchair, look at the position of both arms, it’s a natural reaction to cross both arms when protecting yourself, either your face or between your legs, the speed the ball moved he reacted naturally to me, personally I think people are looking for VAR problems were they don’t exist, there’s enough of them without looking for extras.
		
Click to expand...

Why have refs "warned" players in walls about putting their hands up for the last 5 years then?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Why have refs "warned" players in walls about putting their hands up for the last 5 years then?
		
Click to expand...

They haven’t warned them from protecting themselves.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Give us your address mate, I’ve got some spare straws you can clutch at.

What part of they are not the same do you not see? Praet is in no way protecting his face, De Bruyne is facing a free kick, which Madison is trying to bend (bend) over the wall, De Bruyne thinks the ball is coming at his face and instantly raises his arms to protect himself.

Just seen on MOTD, the Referee in the replay of the ball hitting De Bruyne’s hands raises his arms in a crossing motion to show he believed De Bruyne was protecting himself.
		
Click to expand...

To be clear I'm not arguing that the Man City penalty was a bad decision. IMO that was definitely a penalty. My disagreement is that I think that both of the Leicester ones should have been penalties. The referee might have thought that De Bruyne was protecting himself but my opinion is that he was wrong. And the Ederson challenge on Iheanacho (? spelling) should also have been a penalty.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			To be clear I'm not arguing that the Man City penalty was a bad decision. IMO that was definitely a penalty. My disagreement is that I think that both of the Leicester ones should have been penalties. The referee might have thought that De Bruyne was protecting himself but my opinion is that he was wrong. And the Ederson challenge on Iheanacho (? spelling) should also have been a penalty.
		
Click to expand...

That’s why we love the game mate, today I agree with the decisions in the City game and disagreed with one in the Burnley game.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 22, 2020)

The officials in the Chelsea game should be ashamed of themselves.
Given all the angles and reply’s they have to make a mistake like that is very poor.
Everyone makes mistakes at work but we don’t have somebody watching and backing up our mistakes.
Truly incompetent. 
Another bad day for VAR.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			They haven’t warned them from protecting themselves.
		
Click to expand...

Refs have often shown walls by imitating an example of what not to do before the free kick is taken, and it is sometimes demonstrated by putting hands or an arm over the face.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 22, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			The officials in the Chelsea game should be ashamed of themselves.
Given all the angles and reply’s they have to make a mistake like that is very poor.
Everyone makes mistakes at work but we don’t have somebody watching and backing up our mistakes.
Truly incompetent.
Another bad day for VAR.
		
Click to expand...

You dont need all angles for that red today, any one of them was enough to show it was a clear red. That plus the maguire one, Chelsea very hard done by this week.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 22, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Refs have often shown walls by imitating an example of what not to do before the free kick is taken, and it is sometimes demonstrated by putting hands or an arm over the face.
		
Click to expand...

You are allowed to protect your face but in this instance KDB had moved sideways so the ball was not going to hit his face.
So VAR should have seen the trajectory of the ball and given the pen.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 22, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			You dont need all angles for that red today, any one of them was enough to show it was a clear red. That plus the maguire one, Chelsea very hard done by this week.
		
Click to expand...

That makes it even worse for me .
They don’t need all the angles but they Did have them and still got it wrong!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Refs have often shown walls by imitating an example of what not to do before the free kick is taken, and it is sometimes demonstrated by putting hands or an arm over the face.
		
Click to expand...

As I put before, you are allowed to protect yourself, it’s up to the Ref to decide if that’s what they’re doing.
Let’s be honest, a different Ref may of made a different decision.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			That’s why we love the game mate, today I agree with the decisions in the City game and disagreed with one in the Burnley game.
		
Click to expand...

Which one in the Burnley game? The first disallowed Bournemouth goal that came off the shoulder or the second disallowed Bournemouth goal that came off the shoulder?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Which one in the Burnley game? The first disallowed Bournemouth goal that came off the shoulder or the second disallowed Bournemouth goal that came off the shoulder?
		
Click to expand...

The first one, came through/over a few players and hit him, the 2nd he watched the ball come over and his arm came out, why, I don’t know, although as they said on MOTD it was difficult to 100% show it was his arm and not his shoulder.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			As I put before, you are allowed to protect yourself, it’s up to the Ref to decide if that’s what they’re doing.
Let’s be honest, a different Ref may of made a different decision.
		
Click to expand...

Even if you are, if the ball isnt going to hit your face and you can see it on replays, surely it should be given as a penalty?

I also presume that Ederson was protecting himself when he took Ieneacho out?

Anyway, who made you "ask the ref"?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Even if you are, if the ball isnt going to hit your face and you can see it on replays, surely it should be given as a penalty?

I also presume that Ederson was protecting himself when he took Ieneacho out?

Anyway, who made you "ask the ref"? 

Click to expand...

De Bruyne’s reaction is instant and natural to me, if you look were the ball went, ie, between him and Rodrigo (I think) Maddison is trying to bend it, so I can understand him believing it’s coming at his face.

The Ederson one I thought was accidental, both committed and Ieneacho got there fractionally ahead.

I’m standing in for Homer, he’s having a night off.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			De Bruyne’s reaction is instant and natural to me, if you look were the ball went, ie, between him and Rodrigo (I think) Maddison is trying to bend it, so I can understand him believing it’s coming at his face.

The Ederson one I thought was accidental, both committed and Ieneacho got there fractionally ahead.

I’m standing in for Homer, he’s having a night off.

Click to expand...

This has always been a strange one for me.
If a player gets there just before you and you catch him with your foot it’s a foul!
But if he heads the ball and you head him nothing.
Same for the keepers ,striker gets the ball first in the air keeper misses and clatters him nothing.
Always been like that , but if you touch a keeper with a feather it’s a foul.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			De Bruyne’s reaction is instant and natural to me, if you look were the ball went, ie, between him and Rodrigo (I think) Maddison is trying to bend it, so I can understand him believing it’s coming at his face.

The Ederson one I thought was accidental, both committed and Ieneacho got there fractionally ahead.

I’m standing in for Homer, he’s having a night off.

Click to expand...

It wasnt accidental that Ederson ran 5 yards or more to challenge him.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			It wasnt accidental that Ederson ran 5 yards or more to challenge him.
		
Click to expand...

Through ball into the box they both went for.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Through ball into the box they both went for.
		
Click to expand...

Are you saying that Ederson didnt take the attacker out, after the ball had gone?


----------



## Piece (Feb 23, 2020)

Just seen the Lo Celso incident. I've supported VAR and continue to do so.

But that was obviously a red card. The reason 'No where else to put his standing foot' is weak to say the least. Don’t understand why the on field officials didn’t spot that first time.

For TV viewers, we have got to have some sort of real time eavesdrop on the refs comms to at least understand the decision and rationale at the time. For match goers i dont have the answer and thats part of the weakness of VAR currently.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 23, 2020)

Piece said:



			Just seen the Lo Celso incident. I've supported VAR and continue to do so.

But that was obviously a red card. The reason 'No where else to put his standing foot' is weak to say the least. Don’t understand why the on field officials didn’t spot that first time.

For TV viewers, we have got to have some sort of real time eavesdrop on the refs comms to at least understand the decision and rationale at the time. For match goers i dont have the answer and thats part of the weakness of VAR currently.
		
Click to expand...

The players own body was in the refs eyeline imo.
So can’t understand why he never went to the monitor.
After all “ I never had a clear view” was always a standard excuse.
As for VAR they have no excuse it was very poor.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Feb 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Are you saying that Ederson didnt take the attacker out, after the ball had gone?
		
Click to expand...

I agree with you. If the ball had been on the ground and the attacker got his foot there first and then the keeper wiped him out it would've been a penalty. Don't know why some people think that it's different with a ball in the air.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I agree with you. If the ball had been on the ground and the attacker got his foot there first and then the keeper wiped him out it would've been a penalty. Don't know why some people think that it's different with a ball in the air.
		
Click to expand...

So everytime a 50/50 ball goes 51/49 it’s a foul?


----------



## ColchesterFC (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So everytime a 50/50 ball goes 51/49 it’s a foul?

Click to expand...

No, but every time an attacker gets to the ball first and then the keeper takes him out it's a foul and a penalty.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			No, but every time an attacker gets to the ball first and then the keeper takes him out it's a foul and a penalty.
		
Click to expand...

No it’s not.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 23, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			No, but every time an attacker gets to the ball first and then the keeper takes him out it's a foul and a penalty.
		
Click to expand...

If the keeper gets anything on the ball ,it’s a save .
But if he dosnt get any of the ball at all and takes the striker out ,yes it a pen.


----------



## Fish (Feb 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			You dont need all angles for that red today, any one of them was enough to show it was a clear red. That plus the maguire one, Chelsea very hard done by this week.
		
Click to expand...

and one, potentially, or clearly, is a result changer!


----------



## Slime (Feb 23, 2020)

Bruno Fernandes, as far as United are concerned, is a game changer.
A terrific goal from Martial and a stunner from Greenwood.
Really good performance boosted by the return of McDominate.


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 23, 2020)

Slime said:



			Bruno Fernandes, as far as United are concerned, is a game changer.
A terrific goal from Martial and a stunner from Greenwood.
Really good performance boosted by the return of McDominate.
		
Click to expand...

Oh but he hasn't done much yet .. according to our resident expert


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 23, 2020)

I see that Fernandes fella had another stunner.


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 23, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			I see that Fernandes fella had another stunner.
		
Click to expand...

Your eyes must be deceiving you.. been bang average 🤣


----------



## paddyc (Feb 23, 2020)

Great start gooners ffs


----------



## fundy (Feb 23, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Great start gooners ffs
		
Click to expand...

trying to work out whether to blame Kolasinac for being 10 yards out of position, Luiz for not being able to head a football and it hitting his shoulder or Mustafi for his hair distracting everyone! Think ill blame all 3


----------



## fundy (Feb 23, 2020)

brilliant from saka again


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 23, 2020)

fundy said:



			brilliant from saka again
		
Click to expand...

Pure class that ball - hard to see what a defender can do against it. Pure quality


----------



## Slime (Feb 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Pure class that ball - hard to see what a defender can do against it. Pure quality
		
Click to expand...

Did you see the United game, Phil?


----------



## paddyc (Feb 23, 2020)

s


fundy said:



			brilliant from saka again
		
Click to expand...

get in. Superb cross well done Eddie nice finish.


----------



## fundy (Feb 23, 2020)

Everton defend like we do lol, this could be anything

clinical from Aubam, almost striker like


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Auba being Auba, and Luiz doing what he does too.


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 23, 2020)

If you are knocked off your feet by Ozil, you need a long hard look in the mirror.


----------



## fundy (Feb 23, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			If you are knocked off your feet by Ozil, you need a long hard look in the mirror.
		
Click to expand...

actually had to rewind that as didnt believe it had happened!!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 23, 2020)

Slime said:



			Did you see the United game, Phil?
		
Click to expand...

I missed it seems - Golf then Rugby 👍


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Strange Ceballos is playing the dm role. Ok, Xhaka isn't great, so he isn't,  but rather see Torreira.


----------



## fundy (Feb 23, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Strange Ceballos is playing the dm role. Ok, Xhaka isn't great, so he isn't,  but rather see Torreira.
		
Click to expand...

genuinely struggle to see why Torreira is getting so little game time of late (unless hes still ill as was midweek)

amazing considering how ordinary weve been we can leave out our best midfielder and play our best striker out wide in midfield


----------



## fundy (Feb 23, 2020)

mustafi cant win a simple header and whats Leno at

shoot ourselves in the foot again sigh


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 23, 2020)

😂😂 what a mental game - could end up 5-5


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Auba. Again. Pepe, lovely cross. Not 72m worth of cross, but it adds up.


----------



## fundy (Feb 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			😂😂 what a mental game - could end up 5-5
		
Click to expand...

weve had our fill of 5-5s this year already thanks, we'll take 6-5 today


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Most important to get some lines drawn.


----------



## fundy (Feb 23, 2020)

good to see Gomes back so soon after that injury


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 23, 2020)

We can draw or win this but we have to get more bodies going forward. Neither team are defensively sound today.


----------



## fundy (Feb 23, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We can draw or win this but we have to get more bodies going forward. Neither team are defensively sound today.
		
Click to expand...


we seem to have dropped the tempo, pretty sure we need a 4th if not a 5th at some point lol


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

2 poor teams on display, both need to get this season over with and plan for the future.


----------



## fundy (Feb 23, 2020)

great save Leno but whats the lazy **** Xhaka doing ffs playing him on then claiming offside. as per usual please get Torreira on!


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Your wish is granted.


----------



## fundy (Feb 23, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Your wish is granted.
		
Click to expand...

shouldve said who i wanted replaced too


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 23, 2020)

fundy said:



			shouldve said who i wanted replaced too 

Click to expand...

Well, you didn't, so you get what you get.


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 23, 2020)

I thought Eddie had that.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 23, 2020)

You are in trouble now, we've sent Moise on 🙄


----------



## BrianM (Feb 23, 2020)

How many chances have Everton had to equalise....
On another note, Pickford in my opinion doesn’t look like a confident keeper, surely not England’s number 1 for the Euros.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 23, 2020)

Watching Pickford trying to play football is hilarious 😂😂


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

BrianM said:



			How many chances have Everton had to equalise....
On another note, Pickford in my opinion doesn’t look like a confident keeper, surely not England’s number 1 for the Euros.
		
Click to expand...

He needs to give Henderson at Sheff Utd a chance.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Got the result we deserved.


----------



## fundy (Feb 23, 2020)

Some positives, some repetitive negatives, 3 points


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 23, 2020)

A win is a win. Happy days. Odd team selection, but right now, who gives a stuff.


----------



## fundy (Feb 23, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			A win is a win. Happy days. Odd team selection, but right now, who gives a stuff.
		
Click to expand...


it feels a bit as though hes having a good look at players rather than picking his "best" team, if he even knows what it is of late


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 23, 2020)

You could be right. I still think this season is a write off, and it is all about the summer transfer window. Who is for sale, and who do we need. It could also be about jacking up the sale price of a few whose time is up. Like Mustafi.


----------



## fundy (Feb 23, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			You could be right. I still think this season is a write off, and it is all about the summer transfer window. Who is for sale, and who do we need. It could also be about jacking up the sale price of a few whose time is up. Like Mustafi.
		
Click to expand...


not sure playing Mustafi week in week out is increasing his price!!!


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 23, 2020)

It can't do any harm. Before Arteta took over, you couldn't give him away. Now, if you squint a bit, and have the eye of faith, he almost looks like a footballer. Almoat.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So everytime a 50/50 ball goes 51/49 it’s a foul?

Click to expand...




pauldj42 said:



			No it’s not.

Click to expand...

If that keeper does the same on the floor, it gets given as a pen, so why do they allow keepers to, at times, punch players and it not be a pen?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			If that keeper does the same on the floor, it gets given as a pen, so why do they allow keepers to, at times, punch players and it not be a pen?
		
Click to expand...

We also allow keepers to clear the ball and wipe players out, I’d suggest more players get pens for diving over keepers bodies than keepers get away with taking players out.

Once a keeper is airborne it is almost impossible for them to change direction or stop etc, so if it’s a genuine attempt to win the ball, ie, Ederson yesterday imo, then it’s not a foul, it’s an accidental coming together.

Would you say if Ederson had punched the ball away and momentum carried him into Ieniacho, (spelling) wiping him out, it should of still been a pen?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 23, 2020)

at first glance I thought it should have been a foul against Ederson and therefore a free kick which meant a penalty , an outfield player has to be careful of his follow through so why shouldn’t a keeper ? 

But does it matter that the keeper got to the ball first - well it hit him first and from the replay it looked like the Leicester player didn’t touch the ball ?


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 23, 2020)

Did anyone notice the advert for tomorrow's MNF? 100% coverage of Liverpool highlights and stuff and nothing about West Ham. The result may well be a foregone conclusion but it's pretty poor from Sky.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 23, 2020)

Good to see Fernandes get off the mark.

I think if Pickford is the best keeper England have we are in trouble


----------



## fundy (Feb 23, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Did anyone notice the advert for tomorrow's MNF? 100% coverage of Liverpool highlights and stuff and nothing about West Ham. The result may well be a foregone conclusion but it's pretty poor from Sky.
		
Click to expand...

its only gonna get worse before it gets better


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 23, 2020)

fundy said:



			its only gonna get worse before it gets better 

Click to expand...

Carragher singing "we're gonna win the league" put me right off my tea.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 23, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Did anyone notice the advert for tomorrow's MNF? 100% coverage of Liverpool highlights and stuff and nothing about West Ham. The result may well be a foregone conclusion but it's pretty poor from Sky.
		
Click to expand...

Standard Sky marketing - it’s never been great and think the whole building up of “Super Sundays” etc has always gone way over the top. Most Liverpool fans would rather it all be toned down a lot but outside the UK they love the hype and Liverpool ( or indeed the other big teams ) are the names Far East etc want to see highlighted.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 23, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Did anyone notice the advert for tomorrow's MNF? 100% coverage of Liverpool highlights and stuff and nothing about West Ham. The result may well be a foregone conclusion but it's pretty poor from Sky.
		
Click to expand...

The hype is only going to increase until they are crowned (rightly) champions. Depending on results you'll then have the hype over staying unbeaten and matching the Arsenal invincibles


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			We also allow keepers to clear the ball and wipe players out, I’d suggest more players get pens for diving over keepers bodies than keepers get away with taking players out.

Once a keeper is airborne it is almost impossible for them to change direction or stop etc, so if it’s a genuine attempt to win the ball, ie, Ederson yesterday imo, then it’s not a foul, it’s an accidental coming together.

Would you say if Ederson had punched the ball away and momentum carried him into Ieniacho, (spelling) wiping him out, it should of still been a pen?
		
Click to expand...

No.

There are 6 outcomes for me.

1.Keeper there first, attacker wipes him out. Foul for keeper, unless an advantage on, obviously.

2. Keeper there first, attacker makes a slight contact - subjective, maybe no foul at all.

3.Both make contact at the same time. The unwritten rules say that the keeper will get the benefit of the doubt, but maybe no foul at all, either way.

4.Attacker there first, keeper makes contact but doesnt wipe him out. see no.2.

5. Attacker there first, keeper punches his head in, attacker gets concussion, a broken nose, split ear. Should be a pen, sometimes the ref goes to the unwritten rulebook, says play on.

6. Give the foul to man U, whether attacking or defending.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 23, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Did anyone notice the advert for tomorrow's MNF? 100% coverage of Liverpool highlights and stuff and nothing about West Ham. The result may well be a foregone conclusion but it's pretty poor from Sky.
		
Click to expand...

I have it on good authority the Sky production team trawled through hours of footage to find West Ham’s best highlights but struggled to find anything Pre -1992 when football started😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 23, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Good to see Fernandes get off the mark.

I think if Pickford is the best keeper England have we are in trouble
		
Click to expand...

l’ve seen many of shit keepers at Anfield but Pickford tops the lot. He’s a myth. Very average keeper and if he was foreign he’d have been bombed out by now by Everton.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I have it on good authority the Sky production team trawled through hours of footage to find West Ham’s best highlights but struggled to find anything Pre -1992 when football started😉
		
Click to expand...

Tad harsh. They did manage to beat Fulham more than once during their PL tenure. Surely one of those goals would have made a highlight reel


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			No.

There are 6 outcomes for me.

1.Keeper there first, attacker wipes him out. Foul for keeper, unless an advantage on, obviously.

2. Keeper there first, attacker makes a slight contact - subjective, maybe no foul at all.

3.Both make contact at the same time. The unwritten rules say that the keeper will get the benefit of the doubt, but maybe no foul at all, either way.

4.Attacker there first, keeper makes contact but doesnt wipe him out. see no.2.

5. Attacker there first, keeper punches his head in, attacker gets concussion, a broken nose, split ear. Should be a pen, sometimes the ref goes to the unwritten rulebook, says play on.

6. Give the foul to man U, whether attacking or defending.

Click to expand...

I agree with the frustration and “keepers” have always been made special cases, but we must remember the officials only see it once on the field and for XX minutes on VAR and if they think the keeper has made a genuine attempt for the ball and momentum has taken him in to the opposition then they will say no foul.

I don’t think we can really start to give a foul every time a keeper hits a player, even on the floor if a keeper gets contact on the ball and takes a player out he will get the benefit.


Apart from implementing point 6 above I can’t see what else the officials can do.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 23, 2020)

fundy said:



			its only gonna get worse before it gets better 

Click to expand...

Much much worse and I can’t wait ☺️


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			l’ve seen many of shit keepers at Anfield but Pickford tops the lot. He’s a myth. Very average keeper and if he was foreign he’d have been bombed out by now by Everton.
		
Click to expand...

Steady tiger, I’ve said many times we have a low standard of English keepers and, imo, prior to this season he’s been the best of a bad bunch.
He’s never let England down, unlike some outfield players over the years, but now is the time to give Henderson from Sheff Utd a chance, no other English Keeper has done anything to prove they are better than Pickford.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			l’ve seen many of shit keepers at Anfield but Pickford tops the lot. He’s a myth. Very average keeper and if he was foreign he’d have been bombed out by now by Everton.
		
Click to expand...

Trouble is, who else is there with any degree of experience especially at international level? Pickford is the bottom of a deep barrel and good English keepers we use to have in abundance seem a distant memory. How many more caps would someone like Corrigan have got had it not been for Clemence (who would have got more) and Shilton. I'd like to see both Henderson and Pope get a proper go


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Steady tiger, I’ve said many times we have a low standard of English keepers and, imo, prior to this season he’s been the best of a bad bunch.
He’s never let England down, unlike some outfield players over the years, but now is the time to give Henderson from Sheff Utd a chance, no other English Keeper has done anything to prove they are better than Pickford.
		
Click to expand...

Pope and Heaton have both proved themselves better in the Prem over the past couple of seasons and Henderson this season as well


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Pope and Heaton have both proved themselves better in the Prem over the past couple of seasons and Henderson this season as well
		
Click to expand...

No they haven’t Phil, Pickford has remained No1.
Both play for the same Club during that time and due to injury, neither has dominated, so not sure how you reconcile that over the past couple of seasons.
Henderson deserves a chance.

Edit: Heaton is also out for the season, hence Reina going to Villa.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 23, 2020)

I'd like to see Pope take the gloves. Keepers generally peak mid to late 20's. England in the last 10 years seem to always pick the best youngster and then bomb them out before they actually peak.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I'd like to see Pope take the gloves. Keepers generally peak mid to late 20's. England in the last 10 years seem to always pick the best youngster and then bomb them out before they actually peak.
		
Click to expand...

Pope would be my first choice. I think Pickford is a ticking timebomb in an Englad shirt especially with the ball at his feet


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Pope would be my first choice. I think Pickford is a ticking timebomb in an Englad shirt especially with the ball at his feet
		
Click to expand...

You mean Pickford who has a far better pass rate than Pope with the ball at his feet, 58% to Pope’s 40%
Clean sheets to this weekend:
Pickford 12 from 40 matches to Pope, 11 from 33.

Play stats either way, but Pope is doing nothing special.

Henderson is the one if anyone should be given a chance.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 23, 2020)

D.Henderson definitely deserves a chance for England.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You mean Pickford who has a far better pass rate than Pope with the ball at his feet, *58% to Pope’s 40%*
Clean sheets to this weekend:
Pickford 12 from 40 matches to Pope, 11 from 33.

Play stats either way, but Pope is doing nothing special.

Henderson is the one if anyone should be given a chance.
		
Click to expand...

Are those for all passes? I'd imagine at Burnley, Pope doesn't plan half as many short passes as Pickford. That's gonna have a big impact on those stats.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			No they haven’t Phil, Pickford has remained No1.
Both play for the same Club during that time and due to injury, neither has dominated, so not sure how you reconcile that over the past couple of seasons.
Henderson deserves a chance.

Edit: Heaton is also out for the season, hence Reina going to Villa.
		
Click to expand...

Stick to hockey Phil 😁😁


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			No they haven’t Phil, Pickford has remained No1.
Both play for the same Club during that time and due to injury, neither has dominated, so not sure how you reconcile that over the past couple of seasons.
Henderson deserves a chance.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry Paul but they have when Pope was injured Heaton was superb , when Heaton was out Pope was superb , Heaton left for Villa and was excellent until injured, Pope this season has been been excellent. Pickford has stayed number one at his club despite multiple errors costing his team - him being number one all the time doesn’t always mean great play but can also point to poor management continuing to play an error prone keeper. 

Henderson has done well this season but Pope should be the one given the chance now with Henderson waiting in the wings


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Are those for all passes? I'd imagine at Burnley, Pope doesn't plan half as many short passes as Pickford. That's gonna have a big impact on those stats.
		
Click to expand...

Hence why you can’t rely on stats to show one way or another.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You mean Pickford who has a far better pass rate than Pope with the ball at his feet, 58% to Pope’s 40%
Clean sheets to this weekend:
Pickford 12 from 40 matches to Pope, 11 from 33.

Play stats either way, but Pope is doing nothing special.

Henderson is the one if anyone should be given a chance.
		
Click to expand...

Whose collating those stats for Pickford at Everton games,Stevie Wonder? Pickfords distribution is his weakest part of his game.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Hence why you can’t rely on stats to show one way or another.

Click to expand...

True, that being said, I've not seen anyone use stats whilst suggesting Pickford should be dropped


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry Paul but they have when Pope was injured Heaton was superb , when Heaton was out Pope was superb , Heaton left for Villa and was excellent until injured, Pope this season has been been excellent. Pickford has stayed number one at his club despite multiple errors costing his team - him being number one all the time doesn’t always mean great play but can also point to poor management continuing to play an error prone keeper.

Henderson has done well this season but Pope should be the one given the chance now with Henderson waiting in the wings
		
Click to expand...

Both gone from Superb to excellent, both injury prone and Pickford playing for a team struggling, he’s also saved us a few times.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not his biggest fan, I just think people clutch at straws looking for a replacement as he’s, sadly, been the best we’ve had recently.
I genuinely would love a better English keeper to come in and dominate, I just don’t see that in Pope.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Whose collating those stats for Pickford at Everton games,Stevie Wonder? Pickfords distribution is his weakest part of his game.
		
Click to expand...

But stronger than Pope’s.

https://www.fctables.com/nick_pope-vs-jordan_pickford-291543-259940/


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			True, that being said, I've not seen anyone use stats whilst suggesting Pickford should be dropped
		
Click to expand...

Just cliches


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			But stronger than Pope’s.

https://www.fctables.com/nick_pope-vs-jordan_pickford-291543-259940/

Click to expand...

Make your mind up, you just said the stats prove nothing


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			But stronger than Pope’s.

https://www.fctables.com/nick_pope-vs-jordan_pickford-291543-259940/

Click to expand...

That table is useless, there's no “hospital balls” section were JP has clearly excelled in 😆😆

Anyway I’m not talking about him anymore, I don’t wanna be accused of being obsessed or a closet Ingurland fan 😂


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Both gone from Superb to excellent, both injury prone and Pickford playing for a team struggling, he’s also saved us a few times.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not his biggest fan, I just think people clutch at straws looking for a replacement as he’s, sadly, been the best we’ve had recently.
I genuinely would love a better English keeper to come in and dominate, I just don’t see that in Pope.
		
Click to expand...

Heaton is now too old but then I wasn’t touting him for England just pointing out in my opinion he has been better than Pickford over the last 2/3 seasons 

Pope isn’t injury prone - he had one bad injury with his shoulder which knocked him back for a season and then came back. Pope has also been playing for a team “struggling” 

Henderson has been excellent this season but I think Pope is next in line to get an extended run 

Pickford hasn’t been the best english GK in the Prem over the last few seasons - he just hasn’t and I’ll be amazed if anyone outside Everton thinks that. I think there was some stat that Pickfords errors last season led to more goals than anyone else and he has continued this season. He is the same as what we had with Mignolet- Sunderland do well flogging GK’s


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 23, 2020)

Problem is with limited games before the Euro's Southgate isn't going to drop Pickford and risk another keeper now. How/when will Henderson or another keeper get a run? Risk them in the Nations league (or whatever the mickey mouse competition is called)


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Heaton is now too old but then I wasn’t touting him for England just pointing out in my opinion he has been better than Pickford over the last 2/3 seasons

Pope isn’t injury prone - he had one bad injury with his shoulder which knocked him back for a season and then came back. Pope has also been playing for a team “struggling”

Henderson has been excellent this season but I think Pope is next in line to get an extended run

Pickford hasn’t been the best english GK in the Prem over the last few seasons - he just hasn’t and I’ll be amazed if anyone outside Everton thinks that. I think there was some stat that Pickfords errors last season led to more goals than anyone else and he has continued this season. He is the same as what we had with Mignolet- Sunderland do well flogging GK’s
		
Click to expand...

Mignolet is a better keeper Than JP.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Heaton is now too old but then I wasn’t touting him for England just pointing out in my opinion he has been better than Pickford over the last 2/3 seasons

Pope isn’t injury prone - he had one bad injury with his shoulder which knocked him back for a season and then came back. Pope has also been playing for a team “struggling”

Henderson has been excellent this season but I think Pope is next in line to get an extended run

Pickford hasn’t been the best english GK in the Prem over the last few seasons - he just hasn’t and I’ll be amazed if anyone outside Everton thinks that. I think there was some stat that Pickfords errors last season led to more goals than anyone else and he has continued this season. He is the same as what we had with Mignolet- Sunderland do well flogging GK’s
		
Click to expand...

Gareth Southgate agrees with me and not you

I also laughed the other day when I mentioned Pickford was second to Becker in clean sheets over the calendar year 2019. Ridiculous stat, but who gets the credit for clean sheets? Keepers or defenders?


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Gareth Southgate agrees with me and not you

I also laughed the other day when I mentioned Pickford was second to Becker in clean sheets over the calendar year 2019. Ridiculous stat, but who gets the credit for clean sheets? *Keepers or defenders*?
		
Click to expand...

Keepers.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Keepers.
		
Click to expand...

Are you sure? I keep hearing about Joe Gomez and the amount of clean sheets you’ve had since he got a regular place.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Do I rate Pickford? No.

Unfortunately there isn’t an English goalkeeper I’d replace him with (don’t believe Utd will sell Henderson and he needs a bit more time)

I’ll lose no sleep if Ancelotti replaces him, unless it’s Pope, I don’t see him as an improvement.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Are you sure? I keep hearing about Joe Gomez and the amount of clean sheets you’ve had since he got a regular place.

Click to expand...

Yeah.

Unfortunately, these days to back up your opinion of how good a player is you’ve got to use stats 🤷‍♂️

Gomez has played a massive part in keeping clean sheets but Allison is the man.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah.

Unfortunately, these days to back up your opinion of how good a player is you’ve got to use stats 🤷‍♂️

Gomez has played a massive part in keeping clean sheets but Allison is the man.
		
Click to expand...

So Pickford isn’t fully to blame because of the crap he’s had in front of him at times.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So Pickford isn’t fully to blame because of the crap he’s had in front of him at times.

Click to expand...

He can take full blame of the howlers 😆😅


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 23, 2020)

There seems to be a real lack of quality English keepers these days. Where are we going to go next? The U21 keepers never seem to get any progression or even exposure to the first team squad.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I agree with the frustration and “keepers” have always been made special cases, but we must remember the officials only see it once on the field and for XX minutes on VAR and if they think the keeper has made a genuine attempt for the ball and momentum has taken him in to the opposition then they will say no foul.

I don’t think we can really start to give a foul every time a keeper hits a player, even on the floor if a keeper gets contact on the ball and takes a player out he will get the benefit.


Apart from implementing point 6 above I can’t see what else the officials can do.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, I dont want to see penalties given for "coming togethers" - ooer, but do when a keeper wipes out an attacker, especially if they get none of the ball.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He can take full blame of the howlers 😆😅
		
Click to expand...

Which howlers this season?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Which howlers this season?
		
Click to expand...

Surely you must remember the most recent one ?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Are you sure? I keep hearing about Joe Gomez and the amount of clean sheets you’ve had since he got a regular place.

Click to expand...

The left sided centre half gets it before the keeper, or the right sided centre half.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Do I rate Pickford? No.

Unfortunately there isn’t an English goalkeeper I’d replace him with (don’t believe Utd will sell Henderson and he needs a bit more time)

I’ll lose no sleep if Ancelotti replaces him, unless it’s Pope, I don’t see him as an improvement.
		
Click to expand...

I always knew that Stuey loved the Pope.

#proddy


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Surely you must remember the most recent one ?
		
Click to expand...

The Palace one, but we won the match so not exactly costly.
Please feel free to find the others.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Which howlers this season?
		
Click to expand...

Newcastle at home?


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So Pickford isn’t fully to blame because of the crap he’s had in front of him at times.

Click to expand...

Yeah he is. It’s his job to catch the ball and keep it out of his net.

His kicking is shocking. He’s definitely not a ball playing keeper as proved today a few times.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The Palace one, but we won the match so not exactly costly.
Please feel free to find the others.

Click to expand...

Still a howler though isn’t it - a basic error 

Didn’t he flap at a cross in the newcastle game which cost the win


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Newcastle at home?
		
Click to expand...

Tell me more about the pope not making any mistakes.

#papalinfallability


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Tell me more about the pope not making any mistakes.

#papalinfallability
		
Click to expand...

I haven’t mentioned Pope at all tonight 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Newcastle at home?
		
Click to expand...




Liverpoolphil said:



			Still a howler though isn’t it - a basic error

Didn’t he flap at a cross in the newcastle game which cost the win
		
Click to expand...

He wasn’t at fault in that game for the 2 late goals, that was Davies and Digne who made the errors, the screenshots used of him behind the line were a joke, his momentum took him there and a still proved nothing!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Still a howler though isn’t it - a basic error

Didn’t he flap at a cross in the newcastle game which cost the win
		
Click to expand...

Come on Phil, you’re struggling, 
No keeper is 100% infallible.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah he is. It’s his job to catch the ball and keep it out of his net.

His kicking is shocking. He’s definitely not a ball playing keeper as proved today a few times.
		
Click to expand...

Still better than Pope........statistically


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Come on Phil, you’re struggling, 
No keeper is 100% infallible.
		
Click to expand...

Why am I struggling ? You asked to name a howler - given you one embarrassing mistake which I guess you have just ignored and another basic error. Pickford and his little arms are great for comedy value 🦖


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I haven’t mentioned Pope at all tonight 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Spoilsport.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 23, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Spoilsport.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂 read the rules 😉


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why am I struggling ? You asked to name a howler - given you one embarrassing mistake which I guess you have just ignored and another basic error. Pickford and his little arms are great for comedy value 🦖
		
Click to expand...

You’ve given me one, which actually I gave you! The other is incorrect.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 23, 2020)

Nice touch by Man U, with the match mascots today.


----------



## Wolf (Feb 23, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			There seems to be a real lack of quality English keepers these days. Where are we going to go next? The U21 keepers never seem to get any progression or even exposure to the first team squad.
		
Click to expand...

Do you actually watch football Homer.. In the last 2 seasons we have so many more choices for GK than we've had in decades.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 24, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Do you actually watch football Homer.. In the last 2 seasons we have so many more choices for GK than we've had in decades.
		
Click to expand...

Not good ones though. Hart at his peak was much better than anything we have available now (until his form fell off a cliff for some reason). 

Dean Henderson is far and away the best English keeper at the moment. To my mind, that means he should be number 1. In Southgate's mind though, I'm sure he will say there's not enough games between now and the Euros to bed him in, and he'll frustratingly stick with Pickford in the tournament. Pickford will then drop a bollock in the third group game that sees us knocked out probably.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 24, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Not good ones though. Hart at his peak was much better than anything we have available now (until his form fell off a cliff for some reason).

Dean Henderson is far and away the best English keeper at the moment. To my mind, that means he should be number 1. In Southgate's mind though, I'm sure he will say there's not enough games between now and the Euros to bed him in, and he'll frustratingly stick with Pickford in the tournament. *Pickford will then drop a bollock in the third group game that sees us knocked out probably.*

Click to expand...

Because he has a history of doing that.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 24, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Because he has a history of doing that.

Click to expand...

For Everton yes. It's not a different bloke that plays for England is it? I don't understand your attitude that he only makes mistakes for Everton and not for England.  Just means England got lucky so far!


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 24, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Not good ones though. Hart at his peak was much better than anything we have available now (until his form fell off a cliff for some reason).

Dean Henderson is far and away the best English keeper at the moment. To my mind, that means he should be number 1. In Southgate's mind though, I'm sure he will say there's not enough games between now and the Euros to bed him in, and he'll frustratingly stick with Pickford in the tournament. Pickford will then drop a bollock in the third group game that sees us knocked out probably.
		
Click to expand...

As a huge England fan I'm 50/50 on this. Pickford is a key member of the squad and a leader......but he's not in great form. Henderson is playing well for a team with no pressure......throw him in at the deep end and it's a different matter. I think Pickford will start and it's probably the right call. England won't win or challenge for the Euros based on our defence or keeper anyway - we're going to need Sancho, Sterling and Rashford/Kane back and firing.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 24, 2020)

4LEX said:



			As a huge England fan I'm 50/50 on this. Pickford is a key member of the squad and a leader......but he's not in great form. Henderson is playing well for a team with no pressure......throw him in at the deep end and it's a different matter. I think Pickford will start and it's probably the right call. England won't win or challenge for the Euros based on our defence or keeper anyway - we're going to need Sancho, Sterling and Rashford/Kane back and firing.
		
Click to expand...

A leader?? If he's a leader our problems are bigger than I thought.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 24, 2020)

4LEX said:



			As a huge England fan I'm 50/50 on this. Pickford is a key member of the squad and a leader......but he's not in great form. Henderson is playing well for a team with no pressure......throw him in at the deep end and it's a different matter. I think Pickford will start and it's probably the right call. England won't win or challenge for the Euros based on our defence or keeper anyway - we're going to need Sancho, Sterling and Rashford/Kane back and firing.
		
Click to expand...

Aside from Pickford and Henderson though what are the options after that and in particular who do we have under 30 with a chance to hold the position long term


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 24, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			For Everton yes. It's not a different bloke that plays for England is it? I don't understand your attitude that he only makes mistakes for Everton and not for England.  Just means England got lucky so far!
		
Click to expand...

No, it means he’s an easy target and it’s getting boring!
Plenty of Spurs players have failed in match’s during Pickford’s time in goal and I don’t see you saying they should be dropped.
99% of us on here agree Southgate should be looking elsewhere, but then it’s Southgate’s responsibility.
Current form suggests he’s playing in a decent team, he hasn’t cost Everton any points since Ancelotti has took over, so unfair to suggest he’ll let England down.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 24, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			No, it means he’s an easy target and it’s getting boring!
Plenty of Spurs players have failed in match’s during Pickford’s time in goal and I don’t see you saying they should be dropped.
99% of us on here agree Southgate should be looking elsewhere, but then it’s Southgate’s responsibility.
Current form suggests he’s playing in a decent team, he hasn’t cost Everton any points since Ancelotti has took over, so unfair to suggest he’ll let England down.
		
Click to expand...

What are you on about? When Kane's injured none of our other players are in the England team anymore.   Except Winks on occasions.


Edit: was Ancelotti not in charge for this? https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/08/jord...g-error-everton-beat-crystal-palace-12205210/


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 24, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			What are you on about? When Kane's injured none of our other players are in the England team anymore.   Except Winks on occasions.


Edit: was Ancelotti not in charge for this? https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/08/jord...g-error-everton-beat-crystal-palace-12205210/

Click to expand...

When was the last time Dele stepped up?
We beat Palace, so no impact on result. 👍🏻


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 24, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			When was the last time Dele stepped up?
We beat Palace, so no impact on result. 👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

You're harming you're own argument - Dele hasn't been on form for us for a while and has thus been dropped for England. If anything that backs up that Pickford should be dropped, not the other way round.

I don't think the result is relevant really. You end up winning the game in spite of Pickford - the team has made up for his mistakes by scoring additional goals. If a keeper keeps making basic errors it will cost you in the long run.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 24, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			You're harming you're own argument - Dele hasn't been on form for us for a while and has thus been dropped for England. If anything that backs up that Pickford should be dropped, not the other way round.

I don't think the result is relevant really. You end up winning the game in spite of Pickford - the team has made up for his mistakes by scoring additional goals. If a keeper keeps making basic errors it will cost you in the long run.
		
Click to expand...

So back to what started it, when has Pickford cost England?
You’re the one making statements about him probably making a mistake in a group game and us going out.
40 games for Club and Country so far this season and 1 error in a game we won.

Same game he made a worldie, when 2-1 up, does that mean he saved us 2 points.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 24, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So back to what started it, when has Pickford cost England?
You’re the one making statements about him probably making a mistake in a group game and us going out.
40 games for Club and Country so far this season and 1 error in a game we won.

Click to expand...

Going round in circles here. He has made multiple errors. Goalies making basic errors tends to cost you games. The Pickford who plays for England is not a different person to the one that plays for Everton. You only play about 15% as many games for your country so obviously the probability of one of his errors occurring then is lower.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 24, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Going round in circles here. He has made multiple errors. Goalies making basic errors tends to cost you games. The Pickford who plays for England is not a different person to the one that plays for Everton. You only play about 15% as many games for your country so obviously the probability of one of his errors occurring then is lower. 

Click to expand...

So in other words you realise you can’t back your argument up and go to try using stats, 1 howler for Everton this season, saved more points than he’s lost.
You’ve probably saw him once over 90 mins if you watched the Everton v Spurs game.

Henderson deserves a shout prior to the Euros based on being in better form than Pickford, that doesn’t mean Pickford is playing badly, it means Henderson is playing better.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 24, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So in other words you realise you can’t back your argument up and go to try using stats, 1 howler for Everton this season, saved more points than he’s lost.
You’ve probably saw him once over 90 mins if you watched the Everton v Spurs game.

Henderson deserves a shout prior to the Euros based on being in better form than Pickford, that doesn’t mean Pickford is playing badly, it means Henderson is playing better.
		
Click to expand...

In addition to making multiple errors he has one of the lowest save percentages in the entire division, we covered that last week. So he's making errors and not making many saves, what _is_ he doing right??


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 24, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			In addition to making multiple errors he has one of the lowest save percentages in the entire division, we covered that last week. So he's making errors and not making many saves, what _is_ he doing right??
		
Click to expand...

Keep digging.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 24, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Keep digging.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I realise your desperate desire to have an Everton player in the England team outstrips silly things like facts and figures.  But personally I'd rather have the best players for the team playing.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 24, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Sorry, I realise your desperate desire to have an Everton player in the England team outstrips silly things like facts and figures.  But personally I'd rather have the best players for the team playing.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂 How many times have I stated Henderson should be playing? 😂😂
You just keep digging🤡


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 24, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			😂😂 How many times have I stated Henderson should be playing? 😂😂
You just keep digging🤡
		
Click to expand...

Why am I digging? You're the one defending a shocking goalkeeper in the face of all logic and reason.


----------



## Wolf (Feb 24, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Why am I digging? You're the one defending a shocking goalkeeper in the face of all logic and reason.
		
Click to expand...

Except he's not shocking, you can bring out all the stats you want to suit your argument and others can bring out different stats to suit theres. You've also not given an example of all the horrors you've claimed pickford has had. 

He has made more saves to keep Everton in games this season than he has made howlers. People could say the same for Loris at Spurs yet he's still a quality keeper and worthy international. 

Henderson is in better form this season but that doesn't mean Pickford is having a bad one. Pope is having a great season as well but people moan he can't distribute like Pickford . End of day its what Southgate deems best for the team and that probably is Pickford based on understanding of players and experience. Bigger issue right now os how poor our Centre backs are and a highly likely unfit Harry Kane.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 24, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Why am I digging? You're the one defending a shocking goalkeeper in the face of all logic and reason.
		
Click to expand...

Oh OK Statto.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 24, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Except he's not shocking, you can bring out all the stats you want to suit your argument and others can bring out different stats to suit theres. You've also not given an example of all the horrors you've claimed pickford has had.

He has made more saves to keep Everton in games this season than he has made howlers. People could say the same for Loris at Spurs yet he's still a quality keeper and worthy international.

Henderson is in better form this season but that doesn't mean Pickford is having a bad one. Pope is having a great season as well but people moan he can't distribute like Pickford . End of day its what Southgate deems best for the team and that probably is Pickford based on understanding of players and experience. Bigger issue right now os how poor our Centre backs are and a highly likely unfit Harry Kane.
		
Click to expand...

I'm sorry I don't have a scrapbook of goalkeeper errors but we all remember them happening don't we? I know that Squawka keeps extensive stats on that but their comparison matrix is down at the minute.

I'm more confident at centre back now that Gomez has re-emerged actually. We're just screwed if he or Maguire get injured. I think central midfield is the biggest area of concern.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 24, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So in other words you realise you can’t back your argument up and go to try using stats, 1 howler for Everton this season, saved more points than he’s lost.
You’ve probably saw him once over 90 mins if you watched the Everton v Spurs game.

Henderson deserves a shout prior to the Euros based on being in better form than Pickford, that doesn’t mean Pickford is playing badly, it means Henderson is playing better.
		
Click to expand...

Just so I get my presumption right,  are we only talking the one at Sheff United being ahead of Pickford, or are we talking Jordan, also?


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 24, 2020)

This has to be a record "debate" with the absence of LP


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 24, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			This has to be a record "debate" with the absence of LP 

Click to expand...

I think we know where LP stands on Jordan Pickford.


----------



## Wolf (Feb 24, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I'm sorry I don't have a scrapbook of goalkeeper errors but we all remember them happening don't we? I know that Squawka keeps extensive stats on that but their comparison matrix is down at the minute.

I'm more confident at centre back now that Gomez has re-emerged actually. We're just screwed if he or Maguire get injured. I think central midfield is the biggest area of concern.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/error_lead_to_goal
There you go this seasons official stats by the Premier league themselves. When you filter it to GK only Pickford has made 2 errors leading to goals along with Leno, Loris, De Gea, Pope & Jimenez. That makes him equal to a host of keepers that are having good seasons and he spent a large part of the season pre January playing in a struggling team. If you then change the filter to saves he's made 64, whereas Henderson has made 66 but has also made 1 error. So hardly anything in it is there when you go by stats so Pickford as result should still be number 1 on experience alone.. 

If you want to choose best keeper by stats alone then the England keeper should be Ramsdale with 1 error & 93 saves. 

But like I said before stats don't prove anything as they can be manipulated to suit any argument. Plus top Keepers sometimes make howlers as they put themselves in position to more often.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 24, 2020)

The lads done nothing wrong in a England shirt and should not lose it just because someone’s stats look better.imo.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 24, 2020)

Wolf said:



https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/error_lead_to_goal
There you go this seasons official stats by the Premier league themselves. When you filter it to GK only Pickford has made 2 errors leading to goals along with Leno, Loris, De Gea, Pope & Jimenez. That makes him equal to a host of keepers that are having good seasons and he spent a large part of the season pre January playing in a struggling team. If you then change the filter to saves he's made 64, whereas Henderson has made 66 but has also made 1 error. So hardly anything in it is there when you go by stats so Pickford as result should still be number 1 on experience alone..

If you want to choose best keeper by stats alone then the England keeper should be Ramsdale with 1 error & 93 saves.

But like I said before stats don't prove anything as they can be manipulated to suit any argument. Plus top Keepers sometimes make howlers as they put themselves in position to more often.
		
Click to expand...

Saves alone is a useless stat, Ramsdale plays in a team with zero defence. He must be facing shots galore. I have using shot to save ratios which at least give you a contextually accurate portrayal of how good they are at shot stopping.

The best stat I can find is here: https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/keepersadv/Premier-League-Stats 








It's expected goals minus the number of goals let in, per 90 minutes, so it takes into account the number of shots faced and the quality of shots faced. As far as one single stat can be, I think that's as comprehensive as it can be. Pickford is in the bottom three, ironically Pope is down there with him so not doing as well as people seem to think. Henderson though is right up in 6th. 

(Lloris is filtered out of the list because he hasn't played that many games.)


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 24, 2020)

Blimey - still about Pickford ?

Southgate is going to pick him because he hasn’t let England down , I think there are two better GK ahead of him but Southgate is a loyal manager and will stick with him - he will have Gomez in front of him which should help , just need to find him a quality partner 

I also think Kane being out maybe the best thing for Southgate - pushes him to look at other players and not have everything focused towards Kane , also allows him to give the Armband to the guy who should be captain - Henderson 😁


----------



## Wolf (Feb 24, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Saves alone is a useless stat, Ramsdale plays in a team with zero defence. He must be facing shots galore. I have using shot to save ratios which at least give you a contextually accurate portrayal of how good they are at shot stopping.

The best stat I can find is here: https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/keepersadv/Premier-League-Stats








It's expected goals minus the number of goals let in, per 90 minutes, so it takes into account the number of shots faced and the quality of shots faced. As far as one single stat can be, I think that's as comprehensive as it can be. Pickford is in the bottom three, ironically Pope is down there with him so not doing as well as people seem to think. Henderson though is right up in 6th.

(Lloris is filtered out of the list because he hasn't played that many games.)
		
Click to expand...

Again though you're proving my point that stats are a ridiculous way to decide who to play, because by that it shows Mccarthy should be England's keeper. 

We can both keep finding different stats to suit different arguments that's why its not a wholly accurate way of selecting a squad of players. 

Pickford is a good keeper and deserves his spot in England's team as No1, Henderson deserves to be in the squad also but wouldn't have hin starting tournament games yet, experience at that level is paramount and Pickford has it plus he has not ever let England down that will give his team mates far more confidence


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 24, 2020)

Expected goals! 
Football isn’t played on computers!

Cheers @Wolf thanks for putting across the way you have.

Unfortunately me being an Everton fan my posts were interpreted incorrectly, despite me calling for Henderson to be given a chance and stating I’d be pleased if Ancelotti bought another keeper.

I thought that would of, at least, given my pov a chance.

Pickford is now marmite and no matter how good or bad he performs people won’t be swayed.
Won’t be long until the PL and all Football is played on a computer.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 24, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Again though you're proving my point that stats are a ridiculous way to decide who to play, because by that it shows Mccarthy should be England's keeper.

We can both keep finding different stats to suit different arguments that's why its not a wholly accurate way of selecting a squad of players.

Pickford is a good keeper and deserves his spot in England's team as No1, Henderson deserves to be in the squad also but wouldn't have hin starting tournament games yet, experience at that level is paramount and Pickford has it plus he has not ever let England down that will give his team mates far more confidence
		
Click to expand...

Maybe he should! He's not someone I've considered before but I wouldn't object to him being in the squad. He has played the least games though which sometimes distorts the stats a little bit.

I just believe in picking the players who are playing the best at the time when you select them. If you claim that players should retain their place because they've done well for England, what you're actually say is that they've played well in about 7 or 8 games over the last calendar year, with most of them being against poor opposition. Whereas somebody who is on form in the Premier League is playing well week in, week out, against a good standard of opposition. Loyalty and whatnot doesn't come into it for me. I just want to the players who are currently playing well against top sides.


----------



## Wolf (Feb 24, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Maybe he should! He's not someone I've considered before but I wouldn't object to him being in the squad. He has played the least games though which sometimes distorts the stats a little bit.

I just believe in picking the players who are playing the best at the time when you select them. If you claim that players should retain their place because they've done well for England, what you're actually say is that they've played well in about 7 or 8 games over the last calendar year, with most of them being against poor opposition. Whereas somebody who is on form in the Premier League is playing well week in, week out, against a good standard of opposition. Loyalty and whatnot doesn't come into it for me. I just want to the players who are currently playing well against top sides.
		
Click to expand...

Except your still basing it on a link you post as expected stats, this isn't championship manager where you sim games. This is actual football and he is in better form than your "expectated" stat shows as is Pope. 

Based on your own post then Harry Kane even if he gets fit just in time for the tournament should not go as he will have had basically 6 months of not playing so has no current week in week out form, but im guessing you will find a way out of that one even though its what you clearly state. 

Pickford is a good keeper, has big game experience and will be England's No1 come June. Henderson hopefully will get a chance to play a couple of  international games before then and who knows may give Southgate something to think about but also Pope deserves that opportunity to.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 24, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			also allows him to give the Armband to the guy who should be captain - Henderson 😁
		
Click to expand...

I thought Henderson was out for 3-4 weeks with a hamstring injury so will he be fit for the two games at the end of March and would Klopp really want him played


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 24, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Except your still basing it on a link you post as expected stats, this isn't championship manager where you sim games. This is actual football and he is in better form than your "expectated" stat shows as is Pope.

Based on your own post then Harry Kane even if he gets fit just in time for the tournament should not go as he will have had basically 6 months of not playing so has no current week in week out form, but im guessing you will find a way out of that one even though its what you clearly state.

Pickford is a good keeper, has big game experience and will be England's No1 come June. Henderson hopefully will get a chance to play a couple of  international games before then and who knows may give Southgate something to think about but also Pope deserves that opportunity to.
		
Click to expand...

I know it's modern football and even keepers are expected to pass the ball, but I'm kind of old school in that I like my goalkeepers to make saves. What other unquantifiable benefit can they be providing??

Not going to disagree on Kane either. He always seems to be rushing back from an injury for an international tournament and he always gets thrown in, plays averagely and scores a few pens. If he doesn't get back in time to at least have a run of games for us then I'd have Ings up top.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 24, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I thought Henderson was out for 3-4 weeks with a hamstring injury so will he be fit for the two games at the end of March and would Klopp really want him played
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool’s Henderson has tweaked his hammy so won’t play for a while.
Modern medicine though he may be fit, just look at Gomez didn’t think he would be back for Everton this quick.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 24, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Liverpool’s Henderson has tweaked his hammy so won’t play for a while.
Modern medicine though he may be fit, just look at Gomez didn’t think he would be back for Everton this quick.
		
Click to expand...

I would expect to see him in for the home leg against AM


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 24, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I would expect to see him in for the home leg against AM

Click to expand...

Yes I hope so he’s been one of our best players this season.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 24, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			The lads done nothing wrong in a England shirt and should not lose it just because someone’s stats look better.imo.
		
Click to expand...

Bring back Shearer then?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 24, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Bring back Shearer then?
		
Click to expand...

Didn’t he kick someone in the head once ?
His own player as I recall so he’s out.!


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 24, 2020)

Massive game tonight after a defeat in midweek but I'm confident the boys will get the job done.


----------



## Fish (Feb 24, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Massive game tonight after a defeat in midweek but I'm confident the boys will get the job done.
		
Click to expand...

It’s Wet Spam ffs, the real question is by how many ?


----------



## fundy (Feb 24, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Massive game tonight after a defeat in midweek but I'm confident the boys will get the job done.
		
Click to expand...

LOLOLOLOL

massive game against a Wet Sham side that will set up to limit the damage as they did against City when youre 19 points clear. Do me a favour


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 24, 2020)

How can anyone deem noble fit to start a game of football above Sunday league or maybe walking football


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 24, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I would expect to see him in for the home leg against AM

Click to expand...

Not got a problem with that if he's fit and Klopp wants to risk him but what about England and will Klopp try and pull him from the squad. Can't see him thanking Southgate for risking him in what could be a physical (even for a friendly) game against Italy


----------



## fundy (Feb 24, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Massive game tonight after a defeat in midweek but I'm confident the boys will get the job done.
		
Click to expand...


am guessing flappy hands is on at 10/1 too lol


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 24, 2020)

Least we looking much more positive about staying up than before 

Defended well.. 2 poor goal keeping errors cost us dearly 

Great to see fornals score. Been calling for his return for ages.


----------



## Captainron (Feb 24, 2020)

How long until @Stuart_C comes along with his customary “Choo Choo”?

Liverpool showed how champions do it. Still win when they aren’t playing their best.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 24, 2020)

Captainron said:



			How long until @Stuart_C comes along with his customary “Choo Choo”?

Liverpool showed how champions do it. Still win when they aren’t playing their best.
		
Click to expand...

No Choo Choo tonight 'Ron, more like Chugger feckin Chugger 😉

Thought we were shite tonight, 1st half was dismal, passing way too slow, movement non existent and the midfield lacked the energy of Henderson. 

2nd half better but a win is a win, and we're down to the last dozen points before " operation even more unbearable commence's" 😁


----------



## Swingalot (Feb 24, 2020)

Think there is a misrepresentation of some neutrals feelings towards a Liverpool league win in the media. Lots of ‘it will be unbearable’ etc etc. 

Personally, having someone winning it who has not won the league ever before or in Liverpool’s case long overdue is a good and healthy thing and as a follower of a club who will never win it, refreshing to see new faces at the top table. I even felt the same when Fergie won it for the first time with a club I have little time for normally, but must admit that soon rubbed off as the Fergie machine grew bigger and more powerful the more they won.

I’m sure Everton and Man Utd and city supporters are not looking forward to it, but a lot of others are enjoying watching a quality side win the league in style.


----------



## Slime (Feb 24, 2020)

Swingalot said:



			Think there is a misrepresentation of some neutrals feelings towards a Liverpool league win in the media. Lots of ‘it will be unbearable’ etc etc.

Personally, having someone winning it who has not won the league ever before or in Liverpool’s case long overdue is a good and healthy thing and as a follower of a club who will never win it, refreshing to see new faces at the top table. I even felt the same when Fergie won it for the first time with a club I have little time for normally, but must admit that soon rubbed off as the Fergie machine grew bigger and more powerful the more they won.

*I’m sure Everton and Man Utd and city supporters are not looking forward to it, but a lot of others are enjoying watching a quality side win the league in style.*

Click to expand...


I'm certainly enjoying a lot of the football they're playing, it's superb, I just wish it was somebody else playing it .................... in fact, anybody else!


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 24, 2020)

Swingalot said:



			Think there is a misrepresentation of some neutrals feelings towards a Liverpool league win in the media. Lots of ‘it will be unbearable’ etc etc. 

Personally, having someone winning it who has not won the league ever before or in Liverpool’s case long overdue is a good and healthy thing and as a follower of a club who will never win it, refreshing to see new faces at the top table. I even felt the same when Fergie won it for the first time with a club I have little time for normally, but must admit that soon rubbed off as the Fergie machine grew bigger and more powerful the more they won.

I’m sure Everton and Man Utd and city supporters are not looking forward to it, but a lot of others are enjoying watching a quality side win the league in style.
		
Click to expand...

It's faux rivalry created by money and the resurgence of clubs that have struggled. 

Up until JM and the Roubles Chelsea were never our rivals, playing each other about 20 odd times in a short space of time in 3 different comps and the Gerrard saga created a rivalry/dislike/hatred. 

*Some* City have short memories. Very short  memories infact. Up until their  lotto win happened they used to come to Anfield and be all pally, stand up if you hate Man u etc. Now they're trying too hard to be our rivals. 

Yernited and Everton are our only real rivals, the rest are just hangers on 😁


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 25, 2020)

Slime said:



			I'm certainly enjoying a lot of the football they're playing, it's superb, I just wish it was somebody else playing it .................... in fact, anybody else!
		
Click to expand...

Dont worry slimey we were saying exactly the same about Yernited ( within in our own groups, never publicly😉) When Ferguson had the FA and the refs in their pockets in the 90 's/00's.........

The emergence of social media hasnt helped with knee jerk reaction trolls , after a win it's the greatest ever team or worst  team ever afterca defeat to blah blah blah.


----------



## davemc1 (Feb 25, 2020)

The big difference in before/after 1-2 was tempo. 

I miss the days when we battered teams from the off, an be 3 up after 20. But we’re a zillion pts clear, so who am I to complain.

Btw, I wonder how many teams  reckon they could’ve got a point against us this season? I’m going 17/19 the 2 being Bournemouth and of course the....


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 25, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			The big difference in before/after 1-2 was tempo.

I miss the days when we battered teams from the off, an be 3 up after 20. But we’re a zillion pts clear, so who am I to complain.

Btw, I wonder how many teams  reckon they could’ve got a point against us this season? I’m going 17/19 the *2 being Bournemouth and of course the....*

Click to expand...

Can I have an E please bob 😂


----------



## davemc1 (Feb 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Can I have an E please bob 😂
		
Click to expand...

😆🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️


----------



## davemc1 (Feb 25, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			The big difference in before/after 1-2 was tempo.

I miss the days when we battered teams from the off, an be 3 up after 20. But we’re a zillion pts clear, so who am I to complain.

Btw, I wonder how many teams  reckon they could’ve got a point against us this season? I’m going 17/19 the 2 being Bournemouth and of course the....
		
Click to expand...

On reflection, I’ll add Burnley an Arsenal. So 15/19 ?


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 25, 2020)

Massive positives from last night 

The centre backs look immense

The young RB hopefully will make that spot his own

Bowen looks a good addition 

Fornals finally getting some game time and scoring 

Few negatives.. (ignoring result as we were always going to get beaten) the injury to soucek.. fabainski .. disappointing


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 25, 2020)

Liverpool a long way from their best but still doing what title winners do and grinding out results. They deserve to win as they are bar far the best side in the PL at the moment (the points tally doesn't lie) and have found something they may have lacked for decades, and that is a way to get it done even when well below their own high standards. I think it's a good thing for the PL and they have moved the dial forward (in the same way Chelsea, City and United all did themselves, whether you agree with the cash buying the title or not) and so everyone now has to match or beat what Liverpool have. They can only get stronger while this core of players is together


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It's faux rivalry created by money and the resurgence of clubs that have struggled.

Up until JM and the Roubles Chelsea were never our rivals, playing each other about 20 odd times in a short space of time in 3 different comps and the Gerrard saga created a rivalry/dislike/hatred.

*Some* City have short memories. Very short  memories infact. Up until their  lotto win happened they used to come to Anfield and be all pally, stand up if you hate Man u etc. Now they're trying too hard to be our rivals.

Yernited and Everton are our only real rivals, the rest are just hangers on 😁
		
Click to expand...

As a City fan I will be chuffed if Liverpool wins the title, lets be right they deserve it. No one as got near to them. Your correct City fans when we were crap were your Bessie pals, the enemy of my enemy etc. Unfortunately your right re short memories, but events during the champs league hardly helped cement our friendship.  Ut that’s in the past. Enjoy the Klopp express.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2020)

Swingalot said:



			Think there is a misrepresentation of some neutrals feelings towards a Liverpool league win in the media. Lots of ‘it will be unbearable’ etc etc.

Personally, having someone winning it who has not won the league ever before or in Liverpool’s case long overdue is a good and healthy thing and as a follower of a club who will never win it, refreshing to see new faces at the top table. I even felt the same when Fergie won it for the first time with a club I have little time for normally, but must admit that soon rubbed off as the Fergie machine grew bigger and more powerful the more they won.

I’m sure Everton and Man Utd and city supporters are not looking forward to it, but a lot of others are enjoying watching a quality side win the league in style.
		
Click to expand...

I’m sure the majority of Everton, Utd and City fans will and have recognised the quality of LPool’s football and fully acknowledge they deserve to win the League.
Having someone else winning it depends on your age, some of us can go back to the 70’s & 80’s when plenty of others won it and we were sick of LPool dominating it.

Their fans though are no different to anyone else when they weren’t winning the League, they’ve moaned and bitched over the years just like the rest of us are now.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It's faux rivalry created by money and the resurgence of clubs that have struggled.

Up until JM and the Roubles Chelsea were never our rivals, playing each other about 20 odd times in a short space of time in 3 different comps and the Gerrard saga created a rivalry/dislike/hatred.

*Some* City have short memories. Very short  memories infact. Up until their  lotto win happened they used to come to Anfield and be all pally, stand up if you hate Man u etc. Now they're trying too hard to be our rivals.

Yernited and Everton are our only real rivals, the rest are just hangers on 😁
		
Click to expand...

Could you not “argue” the issue with City is with “some” LPool fans that instead of congratulating City and them winning the lottery they got bitter and jealous of the new kid appearing and knocking yous back a place or two.

Don’t think I’ve ever seen LPool fans say a good word about City, double edged sword isn’t it?


----------



## Big_G (Feb 25, 2020)

I thought bringing on "The Ox" changed the whole dynamic last night, showed more energy and drive in his first 5 minutes on the pitch than Keita had the whole time he was on the park

Surprised he wasn't started, think Keitas boat has sailed, too lightweight for prem, the game just seems to pass him by, slow and easily brushed off the ball, oh well even Jurgen makes mistakes


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 25, 2020)

Big_G said:



			I thought bringing on "The Ox" changed the whole dynamic last night, showed more energy and drive in his first 5 minutes on the pitch than Keita had the whole time he was on the park

Surprised he wasn't started, think Keitas boat has sailed, too lightweight for prem, the game just seems to pass him by, slow and easily brushed off the ball, oh well even Jurgen makes mistakes
		
Click to expand...

I think Keita has had a few too many injuries this season to be able to fully judge him yet. I would say though that next season could be harder still for him with Ox back (and hopefully staying fit) and Jones coming through and being  a force for the squad next season.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Could you not “argue” the issue with City is with “some” LPool fans that instead of congratulating City and them winning the lottery they got bitter and jealous of the new kid appearing and knocking yous back a place or two.

Don’t think I’ve ever seen LPool fans say a good word about City, double edged sword isn’t it?
		
Click to expand...

Not just Liverpool fans, Arsenal and United too, a common theme.

I'll say it again, its easy to let it go if your not challenging for the same trophies or in the same echelons, it would be different for most Everton fans if you were up in 2nd place or getting beat in cup finals by them.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Not just Liverpool fans, Arsenal and United too, a common theme.

I'll say it again, its easy to let it go if your not challenging for the same trophies or in the same echelons, it would be different for most Everton fans if you were up in 2nd place or getting beat in cup finals by them.
		
Click to expand...

That’s still missing my point, the conversation was started about the attitude of fans.

I agree and can understand about you being “miffed” at the Club, but their fans get stick, what did you expect the fans to do? Boycott the club they’ve supported since birth? Tell them celebrate quietly because yous feel hard done to?

Look at your words mate “its easy to let it go if your not challenging for the same trophies or in the same echelons,” guess what? The first time they won the PL yous finished below us! We’ve also missed out on a Europa place by 1 spot a couple of times, lost a semi-final to them. So I guess their money did affect us, just like it’s affected every team in the PL.


----------



## Swingalot (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I’m sure the majority of Everton, Utd and City fans will and have recognised the quality of LPool’s football and fully acknowledge they deserve to win the League.
Having someone else winning it depends on your age, some of us can go back to the 70’s & 80’s when plenty of others won it and we were sick of LPool dominating it.

Their fans though are no different to anyone else when they weren’t winning the League, they’ve moaned and bitched over the years just like the rest of us are now.
		
Click to expand...

I was around when they were winning it every year in the 80's and yes it was rather predicatable and 'tiring' but that was a long time ago. A club like Liverpool are long overdue a title.

Anyway, just seen if the Klopp express wins the next 3 games then they could win the title against...……………………………...ROY HODGSONS Red n Blue army! Benteke hat-trick anyone to spoil the party ?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2020)

Swingalot said:



			I was around when they were winning it every year in the 80's and yes it was rather predicatable and 'tiring' but that was a long time ago. A club like Liverpool are long overdue a title.

Anyway, just seen if the Klopp express wins the next 3 games then they could win the title against...……………………………...ROY HODGSONS Red n Blue army! Benteke hat-trick anyone to spoil the party ?
		
Click to expand...

Without being accused of causing trouble or being biased, why is a “club like LPool” long overdue a title? They’ll win this years as it’s thoroughly deserved, the best team every season wins the PL not the nicest or because they are due it.

As for who the win the title against, if City drop points they could win it at Goodison


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Without being accused of causing trouble or being biased, why is a “club like LPool” long overdue a title? They’ll win this years as it’s thoroughly deserved, the best team every season wins the PL not the nicest or because they are due it.

As for who the win the title against, if City drop points they could win it at Goodison 

Click to expand...

I guess he means because of huge fanbase, history of winning it back in the day. But by the same logic Everton, Arsenal and Aston Villa are also due one.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I guess he means because of huge fanbase, history of winning it back in the day. But by the same logic Everton, Arsenal and Aston Villa are also due one.
		
Click to expand...

If you go by fans, Palace more than deserve some success.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			That’s still missing my point, the conversation was started about the attitude of fans.

I agree and can understand about you being “miffed” at the Club, but their fans get stick, what did you expect the fans to do? Boycott the club they’ve supported since birth? Tell them celebrate quietly because yous feel hard done to?

Look at your words mate “its easy to let it go if your not challenging for the same trophies or in the same echelons,” guess what? The first time they won the PL yous finished below us! We’ve also missed out on a Europa place by 1 spot a couple of times, lost a semi-final to them. So I guess their money did affect us, just like it’s affected every team in the PL.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, expect their fans to lord it over others the way every other set do and would, but hate it when they make it sound that it was down to other things more than sheer money. Chelsea get a little more leeway, as they were up there and were perennial cup winners at the time, although similar to Pompey it nearly bankrupted the club to the tune of was it 80mill? before roman stepped in, and it could so easily have been spurs that he bought.

Palace fans are great, although most I know are rubbish golfers, so maybe why they go the match more....


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 25, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			As a City fan I will be chuffed if Liverpool wins the title, lets be right they deserve it. No one as got near to them. Your correct City fans when we were crap were your Bessie pals, the enemy of my enemy etc.* Unfortunately your right re short memories, but events during the champs league hardly helped cement our friendship.*  Ut that’s in the past. Enjoy the Klopp express.
		
Click to expand...

Totally understandable, typically the behaviour by a minority of divvies tarnished the club that night.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Totally understandable, typically the behaviour by a minority of divvies tarnished the club that night.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly, behaviour that City fans also did to United's team bus a few years before, so those without sin.....cast the first beer bottle. 

I was embarrassed that night, and it did tarnish the brilliant win over city for me, no need for it, no excuses - tinpot club mentality. Ok bring the flares, banners, sing the songs but dont throw stuff at the bus.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Could you not “argue” the issue with City is with “some” LPool fans that instead of congratulating City and them winning the lottery they got bitter and jealous of the new kid appearing and knocking yous back a place or two.

*Don’t think I’ve ever seen LPool fans say a good word about City, double edged sword isn’t it*?
		
Click to expand...

You need to go to specsavers, theyve had plenty of compliments on here alone the last few seasons. 

It's not a common occurrence for other fans to congratulate other teams on winning, it rarely happens infact


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I’m sure the majority of Everton, Utd and City fans will and have recognised the quality of LPool’s football and fully acknowledge they deserve to win the League.
Having someone else winning it depends on your age, some of us can go back to the 70’s & 80’s when plenty of others won it and we were sick of LPool dominating it.

*Their fans though are no different to anyone else when they weren’t winning the League, they’ve moaned and bitched over the years just like the rest of us are now*.
		
Click to expand...

Aye, don’t forget they’ve been poked, prodded,goaded about not winning it for 30yrs, that has stepped up the tone.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 25, 2020)

Swingalot said:



			I was around when they were winning it every year in the 80's and yes it was rather predicatable and 'tiring' but that was a long time ago. A club like Liverpool are long overdue a title.

Anyway, just seen if the Klopp express wins the next 3 games then they *WILL* win the title against...……………………………...ROY HODGSONS Red n Blue army! *Benteke hat-trick anyone to spoil the party ?*

Click to expand...

😉

He’s not scored 3 in 3 seasons, if he scores a trick I’ll show my arse in woolies window 😊


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 25, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Exactly, behaviour that City fans also did to United's team bus a few years before, so those without sin.....cast the first CIDER bottle. 

I was embarrassed that night, and it did tarnish the brilliant win over city for me, no need for it, no excuses - tinpot club mentality. Ok bring the flares, banners, sing the songs but dont throw stuff at the bus.
		
Click to expand...

fixed 😉


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			You need to go to specsavers, theyve had plenty of compliments on here alone the last few seasons.

It's not a common occurrence for other fans to congratulate other teams on winning, it rarely happens infact
		
Click to expand...

All City’s success is caveated with oil money comments, every time.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Aye, don’t forget they’ve been poked, prodded,goaded about not winning it for 30yrs, that has stepped up the tone.
		
Click to expand...

What was that comment about “he without sin”? You’ve never goaded other fans about not winning trophies?
All the jokes and stick Utd got for years prior to them winning the league.

We all do it Stu, and none of us need an excuse.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			All City’s success is caveated with oil money comments, every time.

Click to expand...

That’s a fact though isn’t? Where would they be without it because they wouldn’t be where they are today for sure.

That said it’s easy throwing £1bn at players, you need much more than that and city have done it well.


----------



## PieMan (Feb 25, 2020)

I'm more than happy for Liverpool to win the league this year...............................just as long as it's another 30 years until they win it again!!! Hopefully Klopp, VVD, Salah, Firmino and Mane will all move on to bigger continental clubs soon (sorry LB, LP and Stu!!!) 

They've been outstanding and fully deserved winners - just a shame that City, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal and Utd have all fallen well short of their best and not given them much competition.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			What was that comment about “he without sin”? You’ve never goaded other fans about not winning trophies?
All the jokes and stick Utd got for years prior to them winning the league.

We all do it Stu, and none of us need an excuse.

Click to expand...

of course I have, it’s the highlight of EVERY Derby day 😂😂

I said earlier on in the thread, me and my mates have all acknowledged the best sides winning trophies, as much as it hurts, the Yernited sides, JM’s Chelsea, Ancelotti sides and all of city’s sides, I’d just never do it publicly 😁


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			That’s a fact though isn’t? Where would they be without it because they wouldn’t be where they are today for sure.

That said it’s easy throwing £1bn at players, you need much more than that and city have done it well.
		
Click to expand...

You’ve spent over a billion since the last time you won the League.

But I’m sure you can produce the nett spend table or the “we did it the right way” argument.

What’s the banners say?

Back where we belong


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You’ve spent over a billion since the last time you won the League.

But I’m sure you can produce the nett spend table or the “we did it the right way” argument.

What’s the banners say?

Back where we belong 

Click to expand...

£1bn in 30 yrs as opposed to £1bn in 10, it’s not even close.

I dont need to produce any evidence, you’ll have already found it😉

There’s no right or wrong way, just acknowledge how it’s been done.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 25, 2020)

PieMan said:



*I'm more than happy for Liverpool to win the league this year.*..............................just as long as it's another 30 years until they win it again!!! Hopefully Klopp, VVD, Salah, Firmino and Mane will all move on to bigger continental clubs soon (sorry LB, LP and Stu!!!) 

They've been outstanding and fully deserved winners - just a shame that City, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal and Utd have all fallen well short of their best and not given them much competition.
		
Click to expand...

🤥🤥🤥🤥

I bet that hurt typing that 😂


----------



## PieMan (Feb 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			🤥🤥🤥🤥

I bet that hurt typing that 😂
		
Click to expand...

Massively 🤬😭🤬😭🤬😭😉😂


----------



## Swingalot (Feb 25, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I guess he means because of huge fanbase, history of winning it back in the day. But by the same logic Everton, Arsenal and Aston Villa are also due one.
		
Click to expand...

Correct. I'd say Arsenal, then Everton and then Villa based on my knowledge by not looking up the history, but Arsenal especially out of those 3 named with 60k supporters every week, world wide appeal and their huge trophy cabinet built over up my lifetime certainly fall into that bracket and I fear for them will continue to be in that bracket for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Swingalot (Feb 25, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Palace fans are great, although most I know are rubbish golfers, so maybe why they go the match more....

Click to expand...

Nail = Head


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You’ve spent over a billion since the last time you won the League.

But I’m sure you can produce the nett spend table or the “we did it the right way” argument.

What’s the banners say?

Back where we belong 

Click to expand...

Be absolutely honest.

If you were given the hypothetical option of winning 3 leagues over say 10 years by a Sheik coming in and throwing 1.5 bill at you, building a stadium and the rest.

Or

Doing it the way Arsenal and Wenger did it.

For me and I think most "fair-minded" supporters it would be the latter.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Be absolutely honest.

If you were given the hypothetical option of winning 3 leagues over say 10 years by a Sheik coming in and throwing 1.5 bill at you, building a stadium and the rest.

Or

Doing it the way Arsenal and Wenger did it.

For me and I think most "fair-minded" supporters it would be the latter.
		
Click to expand...

I’ll disagree, were in the history books does it mention who was in charge when trophies are won.

Sheik every day of the week for me.

I’ll give you a hyperthetical:
If you won the Euromillions tomorrow would you buy a new car or buy second hand for 3 years so in the 4th year a new car would feel better?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			£1bn in 30 yrs as opposed to £1bn in 10, it’s not even close.

I dont need to produce any evidence, you’ll have already found it😉

There’s no right or wrong way, just acknowledge how it’s been done.
		
Click to expand...

Right or wrong or City way?

£1bn in 30 years is still unfair for those that couldn’t spend that much.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 25, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Be absolutely honest.

If you were given the hypothetical option of winning 3 leagues over say 10 years by a Sheik coming in and throwing 1.5 bill at you, building a stadium and the rest.

Or

Doing it the way Arsenal and Wenger did it.

For me and I think most "fair-minded" supporters it would be the latter.
		
Click to expand...

Easy to be fair minded when you have a CL trophy in the cabinet and a PL one about to join it. Also easy when your squad is loaded with top players and your income revenues are coming in nicely.

Most fans couldn't care less and would happily choose option 1. I suspect only fans of Liverpool, Arsenal and possibly Man Utd would talk about option 2 and use the phrase fair minded as it is really about keeping the status quo.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Right or wrong or City way?

£1bn in 30 years is still unfair for those that couldn’t spend that much.

Click to expand...

Unfair? They've spent what the club has  made. 

David Moores "loaned"  us the dosh to buy Stan Collymore, H&G loaded the club with debt and FSG after their initial purchase of £230m iirc they invested £100m of their own dosh. So in real terms in 30yrs we've had £100m of real investment from owners. 

The rest has come from being very prudent commercially, something I would never of said in the 2000's


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 25, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Easy to be fair minded when you have a CL trophy in the cabinet and a PL one about to join it. Also easy when your squad is loaded with top players and your income revenues are coming in nicely.

Most fans couldn't care less and would happily choose option 1. I suspect only fans of Liverpool, Arsenal and possibly Man Utd would talk about option 2 and use the phrase fair minded as it is really about keeping the status quo.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair to LB he's always said he'd prefer the latter option. 

My general opinion is I wouldnt be against a rich sheikh or oligarch on the basis to own a successful club you've got to be a billionaire. Millionaires are no good at PL level. I wouldnt forget how we got there.

I've been critical of our owners on this forum over the last 10yrs with their lack of investment in the squad whilst our rivals were paying £50m for CB's LB's and we were making free signings, keeping Lovren, £4m on karius etc. 

It looks like I was wrong.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I’ll disagree, were in the history books does it mention who was in charge when trophies are won.

Sheik every day of the week for me.

I’ll give you a hyperthetical:
If you won the Euromillions tomorrow would you buy a new car or buy second hand for 3 years so in the 4th year a new car would feel better?
		
Click to expand...

I'd buy an old Sierra and employ a chauffeur 👍


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			To be fair to LB he's always said he'd prefer the latter option.

My general opinion is I wouldnt be against a rich sheikh or oligarch on the basis to own a successful club you've got to be a billionaire. Millionaires are no good at PL level. I wouldnt forget how we got there.

I've been critical of our owners on this forum over the last 10yrs with their lack of investment in the squad whilst our rivals were paying £50m for CB's LB's and we were making free signings, keeping Lovren, £4m on karius etc.

It looks like I was wrong.
		
Click to expand...

Owners made mistakes in the way they did the transfers - ie they didn’t have someone within the football triangle of their committee who could scout a player well - so you weren’t wrong with some of the early stuff - far from it , it was poor at times


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I've been critical of our owners on this forum over the last 10yrs with their lack of investment in the squad whilst our rivals were paying £50m for CB's LB's and we were making free signings, keeping Lovren, £4m on karius etc. 

It looks like I was wrong.
		
Click to expand...

Were you though? How? That investment has bought you VVD,  Allison, Firminho, Salah, Mane. You surely wouldn't be where you are now with lovren, Karius, Sturridge etc. You haven't bought bargain basement, you have spent big.

No complaints from me, you have bought very ,very well, which as many clubs know all too well is both important and difficult


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 25, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Were you though? How? That investment has bought you VVD,  Allison, Firminho, Salah, Mane. You surely wouldn't be where you are now with lovren, Karius, Sturridge etc. You haven't bought bargain basement, you have spent big.

No complaints from me, you have bought very ,very well, which as many clubs know all too well is both important and difficult
		
Click to expand...

Sturridge was good business imo. Without his injuries he would be pushing Kane all way for best English striker .. he had everything


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 25, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Were you though? How? That investment has bought you VVD,  Allison, Firminho, Salah, Mane. You surely wouldn't be where you are now with lovren, Karius, Sturridge etc. You haven't bought bargain basement, you have spent big.

No complaints from me, you have bought very ,very well, which as many clubs know all too well is both important and difficult
		
Click to expand...

Only the last  few seasons we've spent big.

We were buying bargain basement players- Matip, ings, Solanke,Robbo, Shaqiri- while city were buying £50m+ CB’s CM’s & LB’s.

Matip and Robbo have both massively improved more than most would‘ve thought at the time.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Unfair? They've spent what the club has  made.

David Moores "loaned"  us the dosh to buy Stan Collymore, H&G loaded the club with debt and FSG after their initial purchase of £230m iirc they invested £100m of their own dosh. So in real terms in 30yrs we've had £100m of real investment from owners.

The rest has come from being very prudent commercially, something I would never of said in the 2000's
		
Click to expand...

The emoji was meant to show I was joking with the “unfair” comment, but as you’ve answered it.

Many LPool fans think it’s wrong for billionaires to come to the PL and spend their money how they like, I also can see and accept in part it smells a bit, so looking at LPool and the history and standing of the Club world wide, it’s unfair to expect a Club the size of Burnley or Soton to be told if you do get a sugar daddy you should plan to get success in 25-30 yrs because you’re not top 6.

The PL isn’t a level playing field to begin with and whether a Club does it the City way or the LPool way should be down to the owners.

Why shouldn’t fans outside the established Clubs dream big?


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The emoji was meant to show I was joking with the “unfair” comment, but as you’ve answered it.

Many LPool fans think it’s wrong for billionaires to come to the PL and spend their money how they like, I also can see and accept in part it smells a bit, so looking at LPool and the history and standing of the Club world wide, it’s unfair to expect a Club the size of Burnley or Soton to be told if you do get a sugar daddy you should plan to get success in 25-30 yrs because you’re not top 6.

The PL isn’t a level playing field to begin with and whether a Club does it the City way or the LPool way should be down to the owners.


Why shouldn’t fans outside the established Clubs dream big?
		
Click to expand...

I dont think it’s just Liverpool fans at all. We got promised the dollars and “snoggy doggy” by H&G when In reality we got Kyriagos and a load of debt placed on us.

Didn’t Villa get a rich Yank too, look where they ended up.

The PL will never be a level playing field.

FFP has put a stop to that.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 25, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Sturridge was good business imo. Without his injuries he would be pushing Kane all way for best English striker .. he had everything
		
Click to expand...

The problem is you can't mention Sturridge without mentioning his injuries, he is made of glass and has been for a while. He is definitely a 'what could of been' player.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Only the last  few seasons we've spent big.

We were buying bargain basement players- Matip, ings, Solanke,Robbo, Shaqiri- while city were buying £50m+ CB’s CM’s & LB’s.

Matip and Robbo have both massively improved more than most would‘ve thought at the time.
		
Click to expand...

I get your point but you haven't challenged until you did go big. You wouldn't be winning titles with Solanke up front, Shaqiri starting every game, Karius with the gloves. It's the big dogs that have elevated you. That doesn't mean your whole team is expensive, it isn't, and your point, I think, is that those frugal years brought you in some players who have been allowed to come through in a way that would not have happened at a city or Chelsea. That is fair, no question.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 25, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I get your point but you haven't challenged until you did go big. You wouldn't be winning titles with Solanke up front, Shaqiri starting every game, Karius with the gloves. It's the big dogs that have elevated you. That doesn't mean your whole team is expensive, it isn't, and your point, I think, is that those frugal years brought you in some players who have been allowed to come through in a way that would not have happened at a city or Chelsea. That is fair, no question.
		
Click to expand...

Only really gone “big” on two players - VVD and Alisson , sorry Keita , the others in modern terms werent “big” and even then others thought we were spending too much on them


----------



## JamesR (Feb 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Only the last  few seasons we've spent big.

We were buying bargain basement players- Matip, ings, Solanke,Robbo, Shaqiri- while city were buying £50m+ CB’s CM’s & LB’s.

Matip and Robbo have both massively improved more than most would‘ve thought at the time.
		
Click to expand...

You did well offloading an overvalued asset, and having the funds to then buy well.
Burnley did similarly, but at a lower £.
Your Coutinio to our Keane.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 25, 2020)

JamesR said:



			You did well offloading an overvalued asset, and having the funds to then buy well.
Burnley did similarly, but at a lower £.
Your Coutinio to our Keane.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah we done well to be fair. All of that money recouped enabled us to reinvest and buy VVD, Allison,Kieta.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I dont think it’s just Liverpool fans at all. We got promised the dollars and “snoggy doggy” by H&G when In reality we got Kyriagos and a load of debt placed on us.

Didn’t Villa get a rich Yank too, look where they ended up.

The PL will never be a level playing field.

FFP has put a stop to that.
		
Click to expand...

What’s the excuse for the other 20yrs?


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 25, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I get your point but you haven't challenged until you did go big. *You wouldn't be winning titles with Solanke up front, Shaqiri starting every game, Karius with the gloves.* It's the big dogs that have elevated you. That doesn't mean your whole team is expensive, it isn't, and your point, I think, is that those frugal years brought you in some players who have been allowed to come through in a way that would not have happened at a city or Chelsea. That is fair, no question.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on, thats the point I was making a few posts back.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			What’s the excuse for the other 20yrs?

Click to expand...

we just weren’t good enough mentally in the 90’s.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			we just weren’t good enough mentally in the 90’s.
		
Click to expand...

The 90’s only account for 10 of the 30yrs, what about the other 10?

In 2013/14 you were top with a few games to go, that wasn’t down to City spending? Mansoor had been the owner for 5yrs then.


----------



## fundy (Feb 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah we done well to be fair. All of that money recouped enabled us to reinvest and buy VVD, Allison,Kieta.
		
Click to expand...


if only youd accepted our extra pound for Suarez (and we hadnt bought Mustafi, Xhaka and friends lol)


----------



## JamesR (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The 90’s only account for 10 of the 30yrs, what about the other 10?

Click to expand...

🤣😂👏


----------



## davemc1 (Feb 25, 2020)

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=m...oECAwQAQ&biw=320&bih=449#imgrc=E7hcicYHEdWZ4M

Hell fire 😆


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I’ll disagree, were in the history books does it mention who was in charge when trophies are won.

Sheik every day of the week for me.

I’ll give you a hyperthetical:
If you won the Euromillions tomorrow would you buy a new car or buy second hand for 3 years so in the 4th year a new car would feel better?
		
Click to expand...

Firstly, I never mentioned it saying anything in history books.

Secondly, everything you have previously said about not wanting it to be a business are absolute bollocks, then.

The euromillions isnt a sport.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 25, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Easy to be fair minded when you have a CL trophy in the cabinet and a PL one about to join it. Also easy when your squad is loaded with top players and your income revenues are coming in nicely.

Most fans couldn't care less and would happily choose option 1. I suspect only fans of Liverpool, Arsenal and possibly Man Utd would talk about option 2 and use the phrase fair minded as it is really about keeping the status quo.
		
Click to expand...

Were Liverpool a world power before the 1970's, were Man U one before the mid-60's?

In the 1960's Everton were the bigger club on Merseyside, Arsenal were possibly the biggest English club, historically. Sunderland have 6 league titles, Forest have 2 European cups, Everton are still 4th in terms of league titles.

Things change.

Most of these things happened before money became the main defining factor, and probably for 20-30 after the above also, but if you want to short-cut it all by being a plaything, you go ahead, but yes, some football fans will always give it a "but", and long may it continue, to the genuine sports lovers. I no longer count you in the ranks.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 25, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Easy to be fair minded when you have a CL trophy in the cabinet and a PL one about to join it. Also easy when your squad is loaded with top players and your income revenues are coming in nicely.

Most fans couldn't care less and would happily choose option 1. I suspect only fans of Liverpool, Arsenal and possibly Man Utd would talk about option 2 and use the phrase fair minded as it is really about keeping the status quo.
		
Click to expand...

With what you have spent in the last few years, you could have also been in a similar position....if you would have spent in wisely and had a better manager.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The 90’s only account for 10 of the 30yrs, what about the other 10?

In 2013/14 you were top with a few games to go, that wasn’t down to City spending? Mansoor had been the owner for 5yrs then.

Click to expand...

Why not pick 2018/19 as an example, after all if the FFP-dodgers hadnt of bought Sterling from us and he was scoring for us instead, 1st and 2nd place may have been very different.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Firstly, I never mentioned it saying anything in history books.

Secondly, everything you have previously said about not wanting it to be a business are absolute bollocks, then.

The euromillions isnt a sport.
		
Click to expand...

No Pete, not bollocks, I’ve stated it is a business, I’d love it to be a sport again, but that ship has well and truly sailed. Simply facing reality and the future rather than looking to the past.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Why not pick 2018/19 as an example, after all if the FFP-dodgers hadnt of bought Sterling from us and he was scoring for us instead, 1st and 2nd place may have been very different.
		
Click to expand...

Because 13/14 was totally in your hands and nothing to do with Mansoor’s money.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 25, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			With what you have spent in the last few years, you could have also been in a similar position....if you would have spent in wisely and had a better manager.
		
Click to expand...

Us and how many other clubs?


----------



## fundy (Feb 25, 2020)

selling Gnabry for 5m still looks cracking business i see


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			No Pete, not bollocks, I’ve stated it is a business, I’d love it to be a sport again, but that ship has well and truly sailed. Simply facing reality and the future rather than looking to the past.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, bollocks, inconsistent POV's.

Its still a sport, but the more the Billionaires come in the less so, but you want to add to that!!!!!

I'm not daft enough to know that the likes of Liverpool and United have a large advantage due to worldwide support (to an extent), which is why I'm in favour of a "levelling" of neutral revenue streams in the sport, which would dis-advantage my club, to an extent, but for the good of the game would love to see a Forest do what they did, Burnley win a league etc.

If you just want to go down the spin the wheel to see who gets the next billionaire of the rank, you go ahead.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Because 13/14 was totally in your hands and nothing to do with Mansoor’s money.
		
Click to expand...

So the fact that they had invested for 6 years had nothing to do with it.

We could barely afford decent football studs.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 25, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Us and how many other clubs?
		
Click to expand...

Man U.

Possibly even Arsenal, bearing in mind the reported money in the bank, and if they hadnt have mis-managed some of their players running down contracts and leaving for next to nothing.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			So the fact that they had invested for 6 years had nothing to do with it.

We could barely afford decent football studs.
		
Click to expand...

Rodgers spent over £300 million during his time as manager. I’m not sure what type of studs yous needed.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, bollocks, inconsistent POV's.

Its still a sport, but the more the Billionaires come in the less so, but you want to add to that!!!!!

I'm not daft enough to know that the likes of Liverpool and United have a large advantage due to worldwide support (to an extent), which is why I'm in favour of a "levelling" of neutral revenue streams in the sport, which would dis-advantage my club, to an extent, but for the good of the game would love to see a Forest do what they did, Burnley win a league etc.

If you just want to go down the spin the wheel to see who gets the next billionaire of the rank, you go ahead.

Click to expand...

It’s not inconsistent, it’s realistic.

Why should any Club be denied the chance of a billionaire, whether that be you or Burnley. 

There is absolutely no chance of any team winning the PL without massive investment and in reality there are only a few that can do it under current ffp rules.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2020)

This is everything that is wrong with ffp. Club in debt = No issue, Club debt free = fine & a ban.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1232324114209177612


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Rodgers spent over £300 million during his time as manager. I’m not sure what type of studs yous needed.

Click to expand...

Longer ones for Stevie.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s not inconsistent, it’s realistic.

Why should any Club be denied the chance of a billionaire, whether that be you or Burnley.

There is absolutely no chance of any team winning the PL without massive investment and in reality there are only a few that can do it under current ffp rules.
		
Click to expand...

Go the other way, as I said, level out more of the cash.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s not inconsistent, it’s realistic.

Why should any Club be denied the chance of a billionaire, whether that be you or Burnley.

There is absolutely no chance of any team winning the PL without massive investment and in reality there are only a few that can do it under current ffp rules.
		
Click to expand...

Again, so you have say 8 clubs with billionaires, 12 without.

Your doing the business model again, instead of the sporting.

Now officially a bollocks-fest.


----------



## paddyc (Feb 25, 2020)

fundy said:



			selling Gnabry for 5m still looks cracking business i see 

Click to expand...

Yeah for all Wengers good signings of which there was quite a few you have to feel that some great young talent such as Gnabry ,the ox ,Walcott were not well managed, coached or played in their best positions to get the best out of them. As well picking up injuries that was a real problem  at Arsenal a few years ago. With  the right coaching Gnabry is worth a fortune now and scoring goals for fun against english teams  Hindsight a great thing but definitely  one that got away.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			This is everything that is wrong with ffp. Club in debt = No issue, Club debt free = fine & a ban.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1232324114209177612

Click to expand...

If the sheik called in his debt and City went to the wall, what would you say then?


----------



## davemc1 (Feb 25, 2020)

fundy said:



			selling Gnabry for 5m still looks cracking business i see 

Click to expand...

What I’ve seen of him he’s been a cracker. Surprising he gets ignored in all the sancho talk, I know who’d I’d sooner have


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Again, so you have say 8 clubs with billionaires, 12 without.

Your doing the business model again, instead of the sporting.

Now officially a bollocks-fest.
		
Click to expand...

So what’s the difference between 8 with multi-millionaires and 12 with millionaires, you’ll still have the imbalance.

I really, genuinely, admire your pov, sadly I just don’t think it’ll ever happen.

More than happy to apologise and buy you a pint if in the future it went the way you suggest.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			If the sheik called in his debt and City went to the wall, what would you say then?
		
Click to expand...

If FSG sold out to Chinese or Arab billionaires what would say? We can play ifs and buts all night, the fact is, ffp rules are not working.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			If FSG sold out to Chinese or Arab billionaires what would say? We can play ifs and buts all night, the fact is, ffp rules are not working.
		
Click to expand...

You can sell to a Billionaire who gives you nothing (see Arsenal), or you can sell to a scouse euro millions 100 million winner who gives you 99 million, its what they invest is what matters in a way.......or what direction they give you.

FSG have given us massive direction and a small investment compared to others, and I'm fine with that now that we are self-paying for stadium expansion with our own money/loans, not gifts.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 25, 2020)

1NeymarBarcelona - PSG2017€222m
2Kylian MbappeMonaco - PSG2017€145m (+€35m)
3Joao FelixBenfica - Atletico Madrid2019€126m
4 CoutinhoLiverpool - Barcelona2018€120m (+€40m)
5Antoine GriezmannAtletico Madrid - Barcelona2019€120m
6 Ousmane DembeleBorussia Dortmund - Barcelona2017€105m (+€45m)
7Paul PogbaJuventus - Manchester United2016€105m
8, Gareth BaleTottenham - Real Madrid2013€100.8m
9,Cristiano RonaldoReal Madrid - Juventus2018€100m
10, Edin HazardChelsea - Real Madrid2019€100m (+€40m)
11Cristiano RonaldoManchester United - Real Madrid2009€94m
12,Gonzalo HiguainNapoli - Juventus2016€90m
13, Harry MaguireLeicester City - Manchester United2019€87.1m
14 Neymar Santos - Barcelona2013€86.2m
15, Romelu LukakuEverton - Manchester United2017€84.8m
16, Virgil van DijkSouthampton - Liverpool2018€84.5m
17, Luis SuarezLiverpool - Barcelona2014€82.3m
18, James RodriguezMonaco - Real Madrid2014€80m
18, Kepa ArrizabalagaAthletic Bilbao - Chelsea2018€80m18, Lucas HernandezAtletico Madrid - Bayern Munich2019€80m
18, Romelu LukakuManchester United - Inter2019€80m
22, Nicolas PepeLille - Arsenal2019€79m
23 Alvaro MorataReal Madrid - Chelsea2017€78.9
24, Zinedine ZidaneJuventus - Real Madrid2001€77.5m
25, mathias de LigtAjax - Juventus2019€75m (+€10.5m)
26, Kevin De BruyneWolfsburg - Manchester City2015€75m
27 Frenkie de JongAjax-Barcelona2019€75m
28, Angel Di MariaReal Madrid - Manchester United2014€74.6m
29, Allison de BeckerRoma - Liverpool2018€73m
30, Luka JovicFrankfurt - Real Madrid2019€70m
30, Rodri Atletico Madrid - Manchester City2019€70m

Looking at that list of top 30 transfers. Citys highest at 26 th. Even that suprised me. Still have some way to go to join the really big top table.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 25, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			1NeymarBarcelona - PSG2017€222m
2Kylian MbappeMonaco - PSG2017€145m (+€35m)
3Joao FelixBenfica - Atletico Madrid2019€126m
4 CoutinhoLiverpool - Barcelona2018€120m (+€40m)
5Antoine GriezmannAtletico Madrid - Barcelona2019€120m
6 Ousmane DembeleBorussia Dortmund - Barcelona2017€105m (+€45m)
7Paul PogbaJuventus - Manchester United2016€105m
8, Gareth BaleTottenham - Real Madrid2013€100.8m
9,Cristiano RonaldoReal Madrid - Juventus2018€100m
10, Edin HazardChelsea - Real Madrid2019€100m (+€40m)
11Cristiano RonaldoManchester United - Real Madrid2009€94m
12,Gonzalo HiguainNapoli - Juventus2016€90m
13, Harry MaguireLeicester City - Manchester United2019€87.1m
14 Neymar Santos - Barcelona2013€86.2m
15, Romelu LukakuEverton - Manchester United2017€84.8m
16, Virgil van DijkSouthampton - Liverpool2018€84.5m
17, Luis SuarezLiverpool - Barcelona2014€82.3m
18, James RodriguezMonaco - Real Madrid2014€80m
18, Kepa ArrizabalagaAthletic Bilbao - Chelsea2018€80m18, Lucas HernandezAtletico Madrid - Bayern Munich2019€80m
18, Romelu LukakuManchester United - Inter2019€80m
22, Nicolas PepeLille - Arsenal2019€79m
23 Alvaro MorataReal Madrid - Chelsea2017€78.9
24, Zinedine ZidaneJuventus - Real Madrid2001€77.5m
25, mathias de LigtAjax - Juventus2019€75m (+€10.5m)
26, Kevin De BruyneWolfsburg - Manchester City2015€75m
27 Frenkie de JongAjax-Barcelona2019€75m
28, Angel Di MariaReal Madrid - Manchester United2014€74.6m
29, Allison de BeckerRoma - Liverpool2018€73m
30, Luka JovicFrankfurt - Real Madrid2019€70m
30, Rodri Atletico Madrid - Manchester City2019€70m

Looking at that list of top 30 transfers. Citys highest at 26 th. Even that suprised me. Still have some way to go to join the really big top table.
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool didnt sign the first million pound player or some of the other big signings around the same time, it was the likes of Wolves and Notts Forest.

Compare City's overall player total, rather than per player and Im sure they will be in the top 3-4 in the world, or even average player cost.

A worthless stat.

Paul, this is the exact type of downplaying by City fans of how money has been the difference, which is why we denigrate some of the success. Case in point, thanks Tashy.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Liverpool didnt sign the first million pound player or some of the other big signings around the same time, it was the likes of Wolves and Notts Forest.

Compare City's overall player total, rather than per player and Im sure they will be in the top 3-4 in the world, or even average player cost.

A worthless stat.

Paul, this is the exact type of downplaying by City fans of how money has been the difference, which is why we denigrate some of the success. Case in point, thanks Tashy.

Click to expand...

Tbf Pete, I don’t understand Tashy’s point either.

Almost every stat can be played one way or another, I mentioned to Stu that you yourselves had spent over £1billion since the PL began, now I understand City have spent more in 12 years than 30, but my point is, no matter how much you try and level the financial side of the game, you never will and ffp has failed to do that.

Yes we can give FSG all the plaudits in the world for how they’ve turned your finances around, but they’ve also increased their value from £200 million they paid for you to now worth over £2 billion and it’s took 10 years, and I would argue they’ve done it with a global brand, clever business men doing what needed to be done from a business pov.

I know you don’t like it, but to compete with the top 6 in the PL you need a billionaire and you need them to spend to have any chance of closing that gap, that spend is restrained by ffp.


----------



## 3offTheTee (Feb 25, 2020)

The one that REALLY stands out is Zidane €77.5 m in2001. Realise Madrid usually pay over the odds but would anybody care to guess what that figure would be in2020?


----------



## Wolf (Feb 25, 2020)

3offTheTee said:



			The one that REALLY stands out is Zidane €77.5 m in2001. Realise Madrid usually pay over the odds but would anybody care to guess what that figure would be in2020?
		
Click to expand...

Based on inflation I'd estimate around €100 m. But obviously that's just the inflation of his actual transfer fee. If you want to know what he'd be worth if he was in his prime now then absolutely no idea it'd have to be up there with Mbappe somewhere.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 25, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Tbf Pete, I don’t understand Tashy’s point either.

Almost every stat can be played one way or another, I mentioned to Stu that you yourselves had spent over £1billion since the PL began, now I understand City have spent more in 12 years than 30, but my point is, no matter how much you try and level the financial side of the game, you never will and ffp has failed to do that.

Yes we can give FSG all the plaudits in the world for how they’ve turned your finances around, but they’ve also increased their value from £200 million they paid for you to now worth over £2 billion and it’s took 10 years, and I would argue they’ve done it with a global brand, clever business men doing what needed to be done from a business pov.

I know you don’t like it, but to compete with the top 6 in the PL you need a billionaire and you need them to spend to have any chance of closing that gap, that spend is restrained by ffp.
		
Click to expand...

Of course there will never be an absolute level playing field, which is why prem sides generally have 35k+ stadiums, champiosnhip are 25k+ and similar as you go down the leagues. 

However, in the past Burnleys, Forest, City,Leicester and even Spurs won one league in 1961,  but the financial gaps could be bridged by good manages, players youth set ups as well as money. Now money bridges any gap.

I'm not saying that FFP is perfect or even right, but instead of limiting spend, why dont you limit income into the top clubs, instead? Or have a salary cap.

Pipe dreams some may say, but not impossible and if we look at other sports similar has happened.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 26, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Tbf Pete, I don’t understand Tashy’s point either.

Almost every stat can be played one way or another, I mentioned to Stu that you yourselves had spent over £1billion since the PL began, now I understand City have spent more in 12 years than 30, but my point is, no matter how much you try and level the financial side of the game, you never will and ffp has failed to do that.

Yes we can give FSG all the plaudits in the world for how they’ve turned your finances around, but they’ve also increased their value from £200 million they paid for you to now worth over £2 billion and it’s took 10 years, and I would argue they’ve done it with a global brand, clever business men doing what needed to be done from a business pov.

I know you don’t like it, but to compete with the top 6 in the PL you need a billionaire and you need them to spend to have any chance of closing that gap, that spend is restrained by ffp.
		
Click to expand...

someone had posted the list on a City page, and although it was done with a dig at FFP and City not paying mage mage bucks for superstars, for me it did show other points like ZZ still being up there. Another being what’s the biggest waste of money on that List.Has Pogba and Coutinho lived up to there big price tags.


----------



## pendodave (Feb 26, 2020)

Enough of the ffp already.  Can we not just talk about Chelsea???


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 26, 2020)

pendodave said:



			Enough of the ffp already.  Can we not just talk about Chelsea???
		
Click to expand...

Chelsea were unlucky. VAR again (poor Alonso). Otherwise it could have been 3-3


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 26, 2020)

Bayern look like a very good team ,frightening pace up front and at the back.
They looked a yard faster than Chelsea.
Having said that Abraham would have had two tap ins if his movement was a bit better.
Keeper kept the score down, and I can’t see Chelsea getting anything over there.


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 26, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Bayern look like a very good team ,frightening pace up front and at the back.
They looked a yard faster than Chelsea.
Having said that Abraham would have had two tap ins if his movement was a bit better.
Keeper kept the score down, and I can’t see Chelsea getting anything over there.
		
Click to expand...

Would be interesting to see them play against Liverpool or City


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 26, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			1NeymarBarcelona - PSG2017€222m
2Kylian MbappeMonaco - PSG2017€145m (+€35m)
3Joao FelixBenfica - Atletico Madrid2019€126m
4 CoutinhoLiverpool - Barcelona2018€120m (+€40m)
5Antoine GriezmannAtletico Madrid - Barcelona2019€120m
6 Ousmane DembeleBorussia Dortmund - Barcelona2017€105m (+€45m)
7Paul PogbaJuventus - Manchester United2016€105m
8, Gareth BaleTottenham - Real Madrid2013€100.8m
9,Cristiano RonaldoReal Madrid - Juventus2018€100m
10, Edin HazardChelsea - Real Madrid2019€100m (+€40m)
11Cristiano RonaldoManchester United - Real Madrid2009€94m
12,Gonzalo HiguainNapoli - Juventus2016€90m
13, Harry MaguireLeicester City - Manchester United2019€87.1m
14 Neymar Santos - Barcelona2013€86.2m
15, Romelu LukakuEverton - Manchester United2017€84.8m
16, Virgil van DijkSouthampton - Liverpool2018€84.5m
17, Luis SuarezLiverpool - Barcelona2014€82.3m
18, James RodriguezMonaco - Real Madrid2014€80m
18, Kepa ArrizabalagaAthletic Bilbao - Chelsea2018€80m18, Lucas HernandezAtletico Madrid - Bayern Munich2019€80m
18, Romelu LukakuManchester United - Inter2019€80m
22, Nicolas PepeLille - Arsenal2019€79m
23 Alvaro MorataReal Madrid - Chelsea2017€78.9
24, Zinedine ZidaneJuventus - Real Madrid2001€77.5m
25, mathias de LigtAjax - Juventus2019€75m (+€10.5m)
26, Kevin De BruyneWolfsburg - Manchester City2015€75m
27 Frenkie de JongAjax-Barcelona2019€75m
28, Angel Di MariaReal Madrid - Manchester United2014€74.6m
29, Allison de BeckerRoma - Liverpool2018€73m
30, Luka JovicFrankfurt - Real Madrid2019€70m
30, Rodri Atletico Madrid - Manchester City2019€70m

Looking at that list of top 30 transfers. Citys highest at 26 th. Even that suprised me. Still have some way to go to join the really big top table.
		
Click to expand...

Maguire at 13 is still hilarious.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			1NeymarBarcelona - PSG2017€222m
2Kylian MbappeMonaco - PSG2017€145m (+€35m)
3Joao FelixBenfica - Atletico Madrid2019€126m
4 CoutinhoLiverpool - Barcelona2018€120m (+€40m)
5Antoine GriezmannAtletico Madrid - Barcelona2019€120m
6 Ousmane DembeleBorussia Dortmund - Barcelona2017€105m (+€45m)
7Paul PogbaJuventus - Manchester United2016€105m
8, Gareth BaleTottenham - Real Madrid2013€100.8m
9,Cristiano RonaldoReal Madrid - Juventus2018€100m
10, Edin HazardChelsea - Real Madrid2019€100m (+€40m)
11Cristiano RonaldoManchester United - Real Madrid2009€94m
12,Gonzalo HiguainNapoli - Juventus2016€90m
13, Harry MaguireLeicester City - Manchester United2019€87.1m
14 Neymar Santos - Barcelona2013€86.2m
15, Romelu LukakuEverton - Manchester United2017€84.8m
16, Virgil van DijkSouthampton - Liverpool2018€84.5m
17, Luis SuarezLiverpool - Barcelona2014€82.3m
18, James RodriguezMonaco - Real Madrid2014€80m
18, Kepa ArrizabalagaAthletic Bilbao - Chelsea2018€80m18, Lucas HernandezAtletico Madrid - Bayern Munich2019€80m
18, Romelu LukakuManchester United - Inter2019€80m
22, Nicolas PepeLille - Arsenal2019€79m
23 Alvaro MorataReal Madrid - Chelsea2017€78.9
24, Zinedine ZidaneJuventus - Real Madrid2001€77.5m
25, mathias de LigtAjax - Juventus2019€75m (+€10.5m)
26, Kevin De BruyneWolfsburg - Manchester City2015€75m
27 Frenkie de JongAjax-Barcelona2019€75m
28, Angel Di MariaReal Madrid - Manchester United2014€74.6m
29, Allison de BeckerRoma - Liverpool2018€73m
30, Luka JovicFrankfurt - Real Madrid2019€70m
30, Rodri Atletico Madrid - Manchester City2019€70m

Looking at that list of top 30 transfers. Citys highest at 26 th. Even that suprised me. Still have some way to go to join the really big top table.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Dan2501 (Feb 26, 2020)

That £615.2m has been spent wisely


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 26, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 29249

Click to expand...

That shows what we all already know, City, Chelsea, Utd and Liverpool spend massive amounts. Is that meant to be new news? Your argument is a little like the top teams in F1 complaining because one of them is spending that bit more. To the rest of the grid it is just laughable. 

Let it go.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 29249

Click to expand...

Pointless post, why only show 10 yrs of spends? 
Pete, This is exactly the same attitude from some Lpool fans that some City fans do when defending them.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That shows what we all already know, City, Chelsea, Utd and Liverpool spend massive amounts. Is that meant to be new news? Your argument is a little like the top teams in F1 complaining because one of them is spending that bit more. To the rest of the grid it is just laughable.

Let it go.
		
Click to expand...

Take a step back and have a look at the post it was in response too 

I’ll help you out 

Tashy posted a list of the highest transfer fees trying imo to suggest that City aren’t the spenders portrayed 

The above picture was in response to that and that alone - it wasn’t “an argument” and there is nothing to “let go” 
🙄


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 26, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Pointless post, why only show 10 yrs of spends?
Pete, This is exactly the same attitude from some Lpool fans that some City fans do when defending them.
		
Click to expand...

Because it’s highlighting the main years since City started being funded by the disgusting regime?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Because it’s highlighting the main years since City started being funded by the disgusting regime?
		
Click to expand...

Garbage, it was tit for tat with Tashy’s post.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 26, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Garbage, it was tit for tat with Tashy’s post.

Click to expand...

Or it completely negates Tashy’s attempts to hide what City spend by masking it with the fact they’ve never been able to attract the very top players either through lack of gravitas or the fact they spend so much overall they’d never get close to FFP if they did.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 26, 2020)

It's  common news I have folk on ignore. But its purgatory when trying to read half a thread 😂


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 26, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Maguire at 13 is still hilarious. 

Click to expand...

Was looking at Hazard on that list, but injuries have blighted his move to Real. ☹ could be out for the season .


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Or it completely negates Tashy’s attempts to hide what City spend by masking it with the fact they’ve never been able to attract the very top players either through lack of gravitas or the fact they spend so much overall they’d never get close to FFP if they did.
		
Click to expand...

It’s 10yr snapshot, Mansoor has been their 12yrs, pointless stat, did nobody spend prior to his takeover?

You should worry about the massive debt your club is in rather in showing the jealousy you obviously hold.

Funny how they get no credit for regenerating the local area, work with local community, employment to the area etc.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			It's  common news I have folk on ignore. But its purgatory when trying to read half a thread 😂
		
Click to expand...

I’ll summarise, City - bad, Everyone else - good.


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 26, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Maguire at 13 is still hilarious. 

Click to expand...

Interesting you pick Maguire out of the list. However, no mention of Coutinho, Higuain, Rodriguez, Arrizbalaga, Pepe, Morata and Rodri. I guess it's nothing to do with who bought him?


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 26, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I’ll summarise, City - bad, Everyone else - good.
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Plank am sat in a rammed drs waiting room stifling a giggle


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 26, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Interesting you pick Maguire out of the list. However, no mention of Coutinho, Higuain, Rodriguez, Arrizbalaga, Pepe, Morata and Rodri. I guess it's nothing to do with who bought him? 

Click to expand...

Eh? Coutinho, Higuain were World Class at the times they were purchased. Kepa and Pepe are certainly hilarious as well but they weren't as high as 13th. 

It's nothing to do with the club, as a Spurs fan I would much sooner knock Arsenal or Chelsea than Man Utd!


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 26, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s 10yr snapshot, Mansoor has been their 12yrs, pointless stat, did nobody spend prior to his takeover?

You should worry about the massive debt your club is in rather in showing the jealousy you obviously hold.

Funny how they get no credit for regenerating the local area, work with local community, employment to the area etc.
		
Click to expand...

 I would not support Man Utd or any other team who were under the control of a regime like Man City; that’s not jealousy at all. I wouldn’t want the money they have under those terms.


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 26, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Eh? Coutinho, Higuain were World Class at the times they were purchased. Kepa and Pepe are certainly hilarious as well but they weren't as high as 13th.

It's nothing to do with the club, as a Spurs fan I would much sooner knock Arsenal or Chelsea than Man Utd!
		
Click to expand...

Coutinho, £120 million though? Higuain was a decent striker, but I'd never have said a 90 million Euro striker (all the way back in 2016 as well, before the Neymar transfer basically caused the transfer market to go even more crazy). Kepa is massively high up the list considering he is a goalkeeper, and I'd never even heard of Pepe before, so being number 22 on list is decent effort.

Maguire is expensive, but the van Dijk transfer the year before basically put central defender transfer costs right up there when he moved, given how successful he was. Any team that would look in desperate need of a central defender after that, were not going to make a relatively cheap signing.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 26, 2020)

Top CBs cost more now partly because of the lack of cover from full backs imo.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			I would not support Man Utd or any other team who were under the control of a regime like Man City; that’s not jealousy at all. I wouldn’t want the money they have under those terms.
		
Click to expand...

Oh OK, Let’s hope the Glazers don’t sell to the Saudi’s just for your peace of mind.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2020)

Anyway:
Back in the real world, 6 CL fixtures played over the 8 days, top teams from around Europe and Officials showing how to use VAR correctly.
PL Officials really need to learn to up their game.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 26, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Coutinho, £120 million though? Higuain was a decent striker, but I'd never have said a 90 million Euro striker (all the way back in 2016 as well, before the Neymar transfer basically caused the transfer market to go even more crazy). Kepa is massively high up the list considering he is a goalkeeper, and I'd never even heard of Pepe before, so being number 22 on list is decent effort.

Maguire is expensive, but the van Dijk transfer the year before basically put central defender transfer costs right up there when he moved, given how successful he was. Any team that would look in desperate need of a central defender after that, were not going to make a relatively cheap signing.
		
Click to expand...

At the time of purchase Higuain had just scored 36 goals in 35 league games for Napoli. It's no wonder Juve came knocking and Napoli obviously set the price high after that.

Kepa, yeah that price was utterly ridiculous and he looks no better than average. I think that was the pinnacle for this modern trend of goalkeepers having to be good with their feet, but teams are forgetting they actually need to save shots as well. They thought they were getting the next Ederson, clearly, but they were wrong on the evidence so far.

I don't see Maguire ever reaching the levels of Van Dijk personally. He's great in the air but a little over-confident and clumsy on the ground, as opposed to VVD who looks assured in almost any situation. 


Kellfire said:



			Top CBs cost more now partly because of the lack of cover from full backs imo.
		
Click to expand...

You might be right, but also, compared to say ten years ago, there are just far less excellent centre backs around these days.


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 26, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			At the time of purchase Higuain had just scored 36 goals in 35 league games for Napoli. It's no wonder Juve came knocking and Napoli obviously set the price high after that.

Kepa, yeah that price was utterly ridiculous and he looks no better than average. I think that was the pinnacle for this modern trend of goalkeepers having to be good with their feet, but teams are forgetting they actually need to save shots as well. They thought they were getting the next Ederson, clearly, but they were wrong on the evidence so far.

I don't see Maguire ever reaching the levels of Van Dijk personally. He's great in the air but a little over-confident and clumsy on the ground, as opposed to VVD who looks assured in almost any situation.

You might be right, but also, compared to say ten years ago, there are just far less excellent centre backs around these days.
		
Click to expand...

I don't see any player reaching the heights of Vin Dijk in a very very long time. However, when dealing in Transfers, Vin Dijk is not used as the upper limit until a better defender comes along. He is used as the benchmark in terms of "Liverpool were willing to spend this to sort out their dodgy defence, so we expect you to pay more to do the same thing (especially considering inflation). At the time, Maguire was probably the highest profile available defender in the market (certainly in England), so he was going to command that sort of transfer fee.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 26, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			I don't see any player reaching the heights of Vin Dijk in a very very long time. However, when dealing in Transfers, Vin Dijk is not used as the upper limit until a better defender comes along. He is used as the benchmark in terms of "Liverpool were willing to spend this to sort out their dodgy defence, so we expect you to pay more to do the same thing (especially considering inflation). At the time, Maguire was probably the highest profile available defender in the market (certainly in England), so he was going to command that sort of transfer fee.
		
Click to expand...

Or to put it another way, Leicester saw United coming.


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 26, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Or to put it another way, Leicester saw United coming.
		
Click to expand...

Everyone sees United coming, everyone knows how much money they have. Why on earth would any club ever sell United a player for a bargain, especially in this day and age. And, it is not just United. If City, Chelsea or even Liverpool come knocking, clubs are not going to let their players go for cheap now. The money Liverpool spent on Vin Dijk was still ridiculously high. However, it has actually worked out well for them. But, there is always a risk. Maguire has not been a terrible signing, he has improved the United defence and hopefully he will be a good solid player for years to come. He may be a very very good player for United. The United failings this year have primarily been a complete lack of ability in breaking down teams, which leave United vulnerable to a quick counter every now and then.


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 26, 2020)

Forget Maguire being overpriced......let's talk about some* really* bad buys.

Bakayoko for £50m is up there. He was like a fan who'd won a competition......
Mendy at City is another clown who can't pass or control a football and cost £50m
Drinkwater for £30m 
Pepe for £70m.....pace with a load of unwanted tricks. He'll be at West Ham in 18 months


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 26, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Forget Maguire being overpriced......let's talk about some* really* bad buys.

Bakayoko for £50m is up there. He was like a fan who'd won a competition......
Mendy at City is another clown who can't pass or control a football and cost £50m
Drinkwater for £30m 
Pepe for £70m.....pace with a load of unwanted tricks. He'll be at West Ham in 18 months 

Click to expand...

Mendy started off well as an attacking outlet though. Perhaps his multiple injuries derailed him somewhat. Mangala for 40 odd million was a good one though.


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 26, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Forget Maguire being overpriced......let's talk about some* really* bad buys.

Bakayoko for £50m is up there. He was like a fan who'd won a competition......
Mendy at City is another clown who can't pass or control a football and cost £50m
Drinkwater for £30m 
Pepe for £70m.....pace with a load of unwanted tricks. He'll be at West Ham in 18 months 

Click to expand...

Fred (especially if I was answering this 2-3 months ago). Benteke for Palace?


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 26, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Fred (especially if I was answering this 2-3 months ago). Benteke for Palace?
		
Click to expand...

In fact, when Benteke went to Liverpool in 2015 for £32.5 million, that didn't work.  Or, all the way back in 2011, Andy Carroll to Liverpool £35 million (I think that was their highest ever transfer fee at the time)


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 26, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			It's  common news I have folk on ignore. But its purgatory when trying to read half a thread 😂
		
Click to expand...

Why not abolish your ignore list and just skip over whatever those you currently ignore have to say?
At least you can see the whole picture.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 26, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Why not abolish your ignore list and just skip over whatever those you currently ignore have to say?
At least you can see the whole picture.

Click to expand...

Agreed. Imagine being so desperate to stay in your own echo chamber.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 26, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Agreed. Imagine being so desperate to stay in your own echo chamber.
		
Click to expand...

Hardly necessary, or are you trying to prove his point?


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 26, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Hardly necessary, or are you trying to prove his point?
		
Click to expand...

 If his point is “I shouldn’t have to read opinions that are different than my own” then yes.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 26, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Why not abolish your ignore list and just skip over whatever those you currently ignore have to say?
At least you can see the whole picture.

Click to expand...

Yeah but its like looking at a picasso thinking  what the flip is that.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 26, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Hardly necessary, or are you trying to prove his point?
		
Click to expand...

Wos he say, wos he say 😁


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 26, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Wos he say, wos he say 😁
		
Click to expand...

I'd ignore if it I were you


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Wos he say, wos he say 😁
		
Click to expand...

Boring mate, just pontificating again as only his opinion counts.


----------



## Dando (Feb 26, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Or to put it another way, Leicester saw United coming.
		
Click to expand...

And made them bend over and beg


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 26, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Boring mate, just pontificating again as only his opinion counts.

Click to expand...

Yes because saying that we read other people’s opinions suggests that. Can YOU read?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Yes because saying that we read other people’s opinions suggests that. Can YOU read?
		
Click to expand...

Reading them and respecting them are 2 different things. Maybe you should read your post #10,584.


----------



## fundy (Feb 26, 2020)

interesting City line up 

no aguerro, no sterling, no fernandinho


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2020)

Apologies for going back to football but two very interesting line ups for City and Madrid 

No Bale for Madrid but City 

No Sterling , No Aguero and no Fernandino 

I thought they wanted to win the comp 😲


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 26, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Apologies for going back to football but two very interesting line ups for City and Madrid

No Bale for Madrid but City

No Sterling , No Aguero and no Fernandino

I thought they wanted to win the comp 😲
		
Click to expand...

Maybe they don't wanna put em in the shop window 😂😂


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2020)

Good display from Rangers, certainly looked out after an hour at Ibrox.

Last 16 for the first time in 9 years.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 26, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Garbage, it was tit for tat with Tashy’s post.

Click to expand...

Isnt that what a discussion is?

Tashy posts something up which is a small part of a large argument. Phil posts a stat up over a long period that shows city's spend compared to all of the top sides in Europe, which is a larger part of the same argument.

YOUR comeback looks more petulant.


----------



## 3offTheTee (Feb 26, 2020)

Some cannot help themselves - Unbelievable!



Dele Alli's Tottenham team are back in Premier League action against Wolves on Sunday
Tottenham Hotspur midfielder Dele Alli has been charged by the Football Association over a post on social media about coronavirus.
Alli, 23, put a video on Snapchat in which he joked about the outbreak and appeared to mock an Asian man.
He later deleted the post and released a new video on Chinese social media platform Weibo to apologise, saying: "I let myself down and the club."
He has been charged with misconduct for an aggravated breach of FA Rule E3.
In a statement English football's governing body said: "It is alleged that his post breaches FA Rule E3(1) as it was insulting and/or improper and/or brought the game into disrepute. 
"It is further alleged that the post constitutes an aggravated breach, which is defined in FA Rule E3(2), as it included a reference, whether express or implied, to race and/or colour and/or ethnic origin and/or nationality."
He has until Thursday, 5 March 2020 to provide a response.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 26, 2020)

3offTheTee said:










Some cannot help themselves - Unbelievable!



Dele Alli's Tottenham team are back in Premier League action against Wolves on Sunday
Tottenham Hotspur midfielder Dele Alli has been charged by the Football Association over a post on social media about coronavirus.
Alli, 23, put a video on Snapchat in which he joked about the outbreak and appeared to mock an Asian man.
He later deleted the post and released a new video on Chinese social media platform Weibo to apologise, saying: "I let myself down and the club."
He has been charged with misconduct for an aggravated breach of FA Rule E3.
In a statement English football's governing body said: "It is alleged that his post breaches FA Rule E3(1) as it was insulting and/or improper and/or brought the game into disrepute.
"It is further alleged that the post constitutes an aggravated breach, which is defined in FA Rule E3(2), as it included a reference, whether express or implied, to race and/or colour and/or ethnic origin and/or nationality."
He has until Thursday, 5 March 2020 to provide a response.
		
Click to expand...

Idiot. Like to see Southgate punish him as well


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 26, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Coutinho, £120 million though? Higuain was a decent striker, but I'd never have said a 90 million Euro striker (all the way back in 2016 as well, before the Neymar transfer basically caused the transfer market to go even more crazy). Kepa is massively high up the list considering he is a goalkeeper, and I'd never even heard of Pepe before, so being number 22 on list is decent effort.

Maguire is expensive, but the van Dijk transfer the year before basically put central defender transfer costs right up there when he moved, given how successful he was. Any team that would look in desperate need of a central defender after that, were not going to make a relatively cheap signing.
		
Click to expand...

I doubt Alexis Sanchez and maguire would have cost as much if City werent (possibly only supposedly) in the hunt as well.

Maybe City played Man U both times, making man U overpay for them both - all part of how city's spending also affects other clubs, as well. Same going back to Rooney. I remember at the time thinking, this could be the pivotal moment in whether City overtake United (a big argument, and I dont mean in most ways, BTW), and a big shift in the city. I think Man U were absolutely determined not to let this happen so gave Rooney a massive pay rise and new contract, even though he was starting to wane. City may have "played" them again.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 26, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 29249

Click to expand...

Finally  a European table Everton aren't bottom of 🤭🤭


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Isnt that what a discussion is?

Tashy posts something up which is a small part of a large argument. Phil posts a stat up over a long period that shows city's spend compared to all of the top sides in Europe, which is a larger part of the same argument.

YOUR comeback looks more petulant.
		
Click to expand...

Of course it does, no different to what you accused Tashy of though, pointless stats! Make your mind up Pete.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Of course it does, no different to what you accused Tashy of though, pointless stats! Make your mind up Pete.
		
Click to expand...

My stat clearly wasn’t pointless in regards the post that is replied too - it showed that the persons club was top of the spending chart over the past ten year despite not breaking transfer records , it was clearly a very relevant stat to the conversation.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 26, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			My stat clearly wasn’t pointless in regards the post that is replied too - it showed that the persons club was top of the spending chart over the past ten year despite not breaking transfer records , it was clearly a very relevant stat to the conversation.
		
Click to expand...

You're not allowed to have an opinion or back up your point. Stick to Hockey.


----------



## Dan2501 (Feb 26, 2020)

Sucks for Laporte. Having a proper rough time with the injuries. World class CB, a huge loss for City if he's out for a while again.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 26, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Of course it does, no different to what you accused Tashy of though, pointless stats! Make your mind up Pete.
		
Click to expand...

Give yer head a wobble fella, you're barking up the wrong tree here.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 26, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Idiot. Like to see Southgate punish him as well
		
Click to expand...

Odd thing to suggest.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 26, 2020)

Think a few people need to seriously grow up. 
No wonder I don’t post on this thread much anymore 🙄


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 26, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Odd thing to suggest.
		
Click to expand...

Odd and Homer is a perfect match.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 26, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Odd thing to suggest.
		
Click to expand...

Why?

The FA clearly see it as a serious breach and so the club will potentially lose him for a game or games but with England games coming up I'd like to see Southgate send a message too. Perhaps uf players realise they could put their selection for Euro or WC's in danger they'd think twice. Of course at the moment it is subject to what Alli says and what the FA decide


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 26, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Of course it does, no different to what you accused Tashy of though, pointless stats! Make your mind up Pete.
		
Click to expand...

Tashys was a pointless stat IF he was trying to offer up something that was to show that City arent big spenders, which they are obviously are. If he had other reasons, it wasnt clear.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			My stat clearly wasn’t pointless in regards the post that is replied too - it showed that the persons club was top of the spending chart over the past ten year despite not breaking transfer records , it was clearly a very relevant stat to the conversation.
		
Click to expand...

Which is a different reason to what you gave Lord T this morning.

It’s been mentioned time and time again how much City have spent, and over what period, you chose a 10yr period to highlight a point.

As I asked you this morning, what about the other years outside the 10 etc. That’s why, imo, it’s pointless because it added nothing to what we already knew and nobody needed a table to gazump tashy’s table.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Tashys was a pointless stat IF he was trying to offer up something that was to show that City arent big spenders, which they are obviously are. If he had other reasons, it wasnt clear.
		
Click to expand...

He tried to explain it in a later post why he posted it, but as we both agreed it was pointless last night, I don’t believe anybody needed a table showing City as the biggest spenders over a limited time frame as that also added nothing to the debate.
Both pointless imo.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Give yer head a wobble fella, you're barking up the wrong tree here.
		
Click to expand...

No idea what you’re on about Stu?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Which is a different reason to what you gave Lord T this morning.

It’s been mentioned time and time again how much City have spent, and over what period, you chose a 10yr period to highlight a point.

As I asked you this morning, what about the other years outside the 10 etc. That’s why, imo, it’s pointless because it added nothing to what we already knew and nobody needed a table to gazump tashy’s table.
		
Click to expand...

🤦‍♂️ 

Christ alive - I didn’t “pick ten years “ that was the stat in the picture ffs

But the last ten years are relevant because guess when they started to really spend and get success - 2011/12 first title - within the ten year period - what other years did you want to talk about ? 

I’m not sure exactly what point it is you are trying to argue apart from just attempting to pick apart other people’s opinion. Are you just battling against everyone or is there a point somewhere within all the fog horn blowing.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 26, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			No idea what you’re on about Stu?

Click to expand...

I'm not surprised.

I genuinely cant see the big issue with the table that's been posted. its factual/accurate .

You're arguing why it's not included the previous 2 years, now I'm no einstein but I'll hazard a guess LP never made the table up. Furthermore I'd expect Citys spending would be even higher if it did.

Bit of overreaction imo.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤦‍♂️

Christ alive - I didn’t “pick ten years “ that was the stat in the picture ffs

But the last ten years are relevant because guess when they started to really spend and get success - 2011/12 first title - within the ten year period - what other years did you want to talk about ?

I’m not sure exactly what point it is you are trying to argue apart from just attempting to pick apart other people’s opinion. Are you just battling against everyone or is there a point somewhere within all the fog horn blowing.
		
Click to expand...

Wow, get personal eh Phil!
And the irony.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm not surprised.

I genuinely cant see the big issue with the table that's been posted. its factual/accurate .

You're arguing why it's not included the previous 2 years, now I'm no einstein but I'll hazard a guess LP never made the table up. Furthermore I'd expect Citys spending would be even higher if it did.

Bit of overreaction imo.
		
Click to expand...

Overreaction? I asked him one question about it which was ignored!

I posted some stats on here about yous and your spending and the fact yous have the highest wage bill, paid the most agents fees and had both ripped apart because they were over a short time period and apparently selective.

Weird how me and Pete had a discussion on here last night, no issues, never got personal, just healthy debate, but yet tonight it’s me with issues when others have joined in.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 26, 2020)

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## ColchesterFC (Feb 26, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			🤦‍♂️

Christ alive - I didn’t “pick ten years “ that was the stat in the picture ffs

But the last ten years are relevant because guess when they started to really spend and get success - 2011/12 first title - within the ten year period - *what other years did you want to talk about ?*

Click to expand...

Would be interesting to look at spending in the 1970's (Liverpool winning 5 titles), 1980's (Liverpool winning 6 titles), 1990's (Man Utd 6 titles) and 2000's (Man Utd 5 titles) to see if those clubs were the biggest spenders in each of those decades. I would guess that in the 2000's Chelsea (3 titles and 3 2nd place finishes) were the biggest spenders but have no idea about the other decades.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Would be interesting to look at spending in the 1970's (Liverpool winning 5 titles), 1980's (Liverpool winning 6 titles), 1990's (Man Utd 6 titles) and 2000's (Man Utd 5 titles) to see if those clubs were the biggest spenders in each of those decades. I would guess that in the 2000's Chelsea (3 titles and 3 2nd place finishes) were the biggest spenders but have no idea about the other decades.
		
Click to expand...

I have no idea about overall spending for Liverpool in the 70’s but they spent money - some big ( for the time ) signings like Kenny , Rush was a high fee for a teenager - where they the highest spenders at the time ? Not sure 

80’s remember a bit more but most of the biggest spending was using the Rush money - Barnes and co arriving 

90’s - obviously Blackburn spent a good amount to win the title , Utd early didn’t seem to be blowing money everywhere

I think whilst money was spend a lot if not most was money from the club - Blackburn was the first to go a bit mad 

And then the 00’s Chelsea arrived with Abramovich


----------



## Dan2501 (Feb 26, 2020)

Huge goal for City. Jesus has deserved that, been excellent.


----------



## Dan2501 (Feb 26, 2020)

Wow, awful challenge from Carvajal in the box. KDB slots the pen. 2-1 up, 2 away goals. Big for City this.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 26, 2020)

KDB should take all their penalties. He may miss a few but he’s one hell of a striker of a football.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2020)

RM are falling apart.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 26, 2020)

Decent so far from City despite the strange line up at the start. Clear red for Ramos


----------



## Dan2501 (Feb 26, 2020)

Going well for Real this. 2-1 down, Ramos sent off. Disaster for them, great for City.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 26, 2020)

Very strange line up from City.
Looked like it didn’t work first half, but City excellent second half even after gifting them a goal.
KDB what a player.
Ramos ? 26 red cards ??? Good player but has got away with murder over the years.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Feb 26, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I have no idea about overall spending for Liverpool in the 70’s but they spent money - some big ( for the time ) signings like Kenny , Rush was a high fee for a teenager - where they the highest spenders at the time ? Not sure

80’s remember a bit more but most of the biggest spending was using the Rush money - Barnes and co arriving

*90’s - obviously Blackburn spent a good amount to win the title , Utd early didn’t seem to be blowing money everywhere*

I think whilst money was spend a lot if not most was money from the club - Blackburn was the first to go a bit mad

And then the 00’s Chelsea arrived with Abramovich
		
Click to expand...

I wonder if Utd were the biggest spenders in the 90's as they had both Neville's, Beckham, Butt, Scholes and Giggs that came through the youth setup and formed the basis of their team for many years. When you've got 6 first teamers that you have paid nothing/very little for then you don't have to spend massive amounts to make up the rest of the team. No idea what they spent on the likes of Pallister, Bruce, Irwin etc but don't remember it being mega bucks.


----------



## davemc1 (Feb 26, 2020)

Thought City were the better team overall but especially when it went 1-1. A lot of teams would’ve been happy but they smelt blood and got all they deserved. 

Kdb is a brilliant footballer obviously. The simple things done well. Players ought to be made to study his spacial awareness side


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 26, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm not surprised.

I genuinely cant see the big issue with the table that's been posted. its factual/accurate .

You're arguing why it's not included the previous 2 years, now I'm no einstein but I'll hazard a guess LP never made the table up. Furthermore I'd expect Citys spending would be even higher if it did.

Bit of overreaction imo.
		
Click to expand...

Not it’s not Stu, ( the next two years).the table that I posted was only the top 30, it’s from a table that’s actually a top 100. But would of taken me an hour to break it down. Anyway City have quite a few players in the other 70 that helps make up the money City have spent over the last 10 years. But again the focus was turned on City not other players who were on that list. 👍


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 26, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I wonder if Utd were the biggest spenders in the 90's as they had both Neville's, Beckham, Butt, Scholes and Giggs that came through the youth setup and formed the basis of their team for many years. When you've got 6 first teamers that you have paid nothing/very little for then you don't have to spend massive amounts to make up the rest of the team. No idea what they spent on the likes of Pallister, Bruce, Irwin etc but don't remember it being mega bucks.
		
Click to expand...

From what I can see, Man Utd have been top spenders only 4 seasons since the prem began.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 26, 2020)

City all but through now, our PL game will now be moved backto Saturday after it was moved to sunday only last week.


----------



## davemc1 (Feb 26, 2020)

Like this if you’re bored of the Peter/Paul/Phil snoozefest...


🤦‍ 😆😆


----------



## fundy (Feb 26, 2020)

Fair play to city they got a result but geez how bad were Madrid. At 1-0 up they went so slow and defensive minded rather than most Madrid sides of the last 20 years that wouldve pressed on and tried to finish City off. The equaliser just gave City some confidence and Madrid got even deeper and deeper and there was only one winner

Laporte injury a big worry for City going forward, that said Fernandinho was excellent when he came on


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 26, 2020)

Not it’s not Stu, ( the next two years).the table that I posted was only the top 30, it’s from a table that’s actually a top 100. But would of taken me an hour to break it down. Anyway City have quite a few players in the other 70 that helps make up the money City have spent over the last 10 years


pauldj42 said:



			Overreaction? I asked him one question about it which was ignored!

I posted some stats on here about yous and your spending and the fact yous have the highest wage bill, paid the most agents fees and had both ripped apart because they were over a short time period and apparently selective.

Weird how me and Pete had a discussion on here last night, no issues, never got personal, just healthy debate, *but yet tonight it’s me with issues when others have joined in.*

Click to expand...

.Yup been there with that one. Console yourself it’s not just you.👍


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I wonder if Utd were the biggest spenders in the 90's as they had both Neville's, Beckham, Butt, Scholes and Giggs that came through the youth setup and formed the basis of their team for many years. When you've got 6 first teamers that you have paid nothing/very little for then you don't have to spend massive amounts to make up the rest of the team. No idea what they spent on the likes of Pallister, Bruce, Irwin etc but don't remember it being mega bucks.
		
Click to expand...

Looking at their transfer these seem the bigger ones in th 80’s

Cole
Berg
Stam
Yorke
Keane 
Barthez


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 26, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Not it’s not Stu, ( the next two years).the table that I posted was only the top 30, it’s from a table that’s actually a top 100. But would of taken me an hour to break it down. Anyway City have quite a few players in the other 70 that helps make up the money City have spent over the last 10 years. But again the focus was turned on City not other players who were on that list. 👍
		
Click to expand...

The one you posted was the most expensive players, again accurate and factual. The table LP posted was again accurate and factual. 

Are you saying the previous 2 years Citys spending was considerably lower and wouldve moved City from top of the spending league?


----------



## ColchesterFC (Feb 26, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looking at their transfer these seem the bigger ones in th 80’s

Cole
Berg
Stam
Yorke
Keane
Barthez
		
Click to expand...

Assume that was a fat finger moment and you meant 90's. Just had a look by year at their biggest transfer fee.....

90/91 - Irwin 630k
91/92 - Paul Parker 2.2m (also Kanchelskis 900k, Schmeichel 675k)
92/93 - Cantona 1.6m (also Dublin 1.4m)
93/94 - Keane 7.7m
94/95 - Cole 8.7m
95/96 - Coton 520k
96/97 - Poborsky 3.6m (alos Cruyff 2.3m, Solksjaer 2.2m, Johnson 2m)
97/98 - Berg 6.8m (also Sheringham 4.8m)
98/99 - Yorke 17.3m (also Stam 15.3m, Blomquist 6.3m)

You got most of them but Barthez was 2000/2001. So they probably were the biggest spenders of the decade as Blackburn only spent big for a few seasons and then dropped away.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 26, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			The one you posted was the most expensive players, again accurate and factual. The table LP posted was again accurate and factual.

Are you saying the previous 2 years Citys spending was considerably lower and wouldve moved City from top of the spending league?
		
Click to expand...

No am positive it would of contributed,  But am also positive it would of shown quite a few more City players that were not cheap. The trouble was that the table cameoutlikethisandiwasnotgoingtospendallnightputtinginfullstopsandcommas. 😖👍😁


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 26, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Apologies for going back to football but two very interesting line ups for City and Madrid

No Bale for Madrid but City

No Sterling , No Aguero and no Fernandino

I thought they wanted to win the comp 😲
		
Click to expand...

That’s why Pep is a world class manager and your a nobody on a golf forum.
Stick to Hockey


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			Fair play to city they got a result but geez how bad were Madrid. At 1-0 up they went so slow and defensive minded rather than most Madrid sides of the last 20 years that wouldve pressed on and tried to finish City off. The equaliser just gave City some confidence and Madrid got even deeper and deeper and there was only one winner

Laporte injury a big worry for City going forward, that said Fernandinho was excellent when he came on
		
Click to expand...

Madrid are all about defensive solidity this year, it’s why they’re doing so well in the league albeit playing less attractive football.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 26, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			No am positive it would of contributed,  But am also positive it would of shown quite a few more City players that were not cheap. The trouble was that the table cameoutlikethisandiwasnotgoingtospendallnightputtinginfullstopsandcommas. 😖👍😁
		
Click to expand...

Sorry tashy crossed wires here. 

I was referring to LP's table not your shoddy copy and paste job 😁


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 26, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Sorry tashy crossed wires here.

I was referring to LP's table not your shoddy copy and paste job 😁
		
Click to expand...

welcome to my world 🤗😁


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 26, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Assume that was a fat finger moment and you meant 90's. Just had a look by year at their biggest transfer fee.....

90/91 - Irwin 630k
91/92 - Paul Parker 2.2m (also Kanchelskis 900k, Schmeichel 675k)
92/93 - Cantona 1.6m (also Dublin 1.4m)
93/94 - Keane 7.7m
94/95 - Cole 8.7m
95/96 - Coton 520k
96/97 - Poborsky 3.6m (alos Cruyff 2.3m, Solksjaer 2.2m, Johnson 2m)
97/98 - Berg 6.8m (also Sheringham 4.8m)
98/99 - Yorke 17.3m (also Stam 15.3m, Blomquist 6.3m)

You got most of them but Barthez was 2000/2001. So they probably were the biggest spenders of the decade as Blackburn only spent big for a few seasons and then dropped away.
		
Click to expand...

upto and including 99/00

Utd  £79.85m
liverpool £96.075
arsenal £84.04
newcastle £132.665
chelsea £85.74
spurs £72.05
leeds £78.13
everton 76.345

Only Searched ones I thought maybe higher than Utd. 
So Utd weren’t the biggest, simply Because they only needed to add a few stars every few seasons.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 26, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Like this if you’re bored of the Peter/Paul/Phil snoozefest...


🤦‍ 😆😆
		
Click to expand...

As boring as asking what time MOTD is on every week?

Its 10.30, BTW.

Bro.


----------



## fundy (Feb 26, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Madrid are all about defensive solidity this year, it’s why they’re doing so well in the league albeit playing less attractive football.
		
Click to expand...

is 2nd to a poor Barca side doing well in the league for Real Madrid?


----------



## Beezerk (Feb 26, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			That’s why Pep is a world class manager and your a nobody on a golf forum.
Stick to Hockey
		
Click to expand...

Beer...keyboard 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 26, 2020)

Not seen any of the game tonight, but on a few threads I have seen. There’s much laughter about Ramos being sent off. Now forget City for a minute if you can. But how important could that professional foul be. At the moment it’s 2-1, not 3-1. I remember we had a natter about professional fouls a few weeks ago. If it was your team, would you be chuffed if a player had taken one for the team.


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 26, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Assume that was a fat finger moment and you meant 90's. Just had a look by year at their biggest transfer fee.....

90/91 - Irwin 630k
91/92 - Paul Parker 2.2m (also Kanchelskis 900k, Schmeichel 675k)
92/93 - Cantona 1.6m (also Dublin 1.4m)
93/94 - Keane 7.7m
94/95 - Cole 8.7m
95/96 - Coton 520k
96/97 - Poborsky 3.6m (alos Cruyff 2.3m, Solksjaer 2.2m, Johnson 2m)
97/98 - Berg 6.8m (also Sheringham 4.8m)
98/99 - Yorke 17.3m (also Stam 15.3m, Blomquist 6.3m)

You got most of them but Barthez was 2000/2001. So they probably were the biggest spenders of the decade as Blackburn only spent big for a few seasons and then dropped away.
		
Click to expand...

Leeds spent big in 90's


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 27, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Leeds spent big in 90's
		
Click to expand...

Much more than they could afford too.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 27, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Not seen any of the game tonight, but on a few threads I have seen. There’s much laughter about Ramos being sent off. Now forget City for a minute if you can. But how important could that professional foul be. At the moment it’s 2-1, not 3-1. I remember we had a natter about professional fouls a few weeks ago. *If it was your team, would you be chuffed if a player had taken one for the team*.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, over the moon. Anyone says different are telling porkies. 

Madrid are still in it but I cant see them getting through.

I'm a fan of tactical fouling, it's part of the game. What I dont like is how refs let players get away with too many.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 27, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Not seen any of the game tonight, but on a few threads I have seen. There’s much laughter about Ramos being sent off. Now forget City for a minute if you can. But how important could that professional foul be. At the moment it’s 2-1, not 3-1. I remember we had a natter about professional fouls a few weeks ago. If it was your team, would you be chuffed if a player had taken one for the team.
		
Click to expand...

Sad but true. Real have to score 2 at city now, psychologically much more achievable than 3. 10 mins to go, 0-0 and they scramble a goal. Nerves, tension, panic sets in. If city had scored that 3rd then the next leg would be so much more relaxed.


----------



## Dan2501 (Feb 27, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Leeds spent big in 90's
		
Click to expand...

Not really. Their big spending came in the very late 90s and into the early 2000s and was pretty short lived. They signed quite a few 4-5m players in 1999 but then Ferdinand was their first signing over £10m and they went big after that. Ferdinand, Dacourt and Viduka came in in 00/01, Keane, Fowler and Johnson in 01/02 and then the money dried up. They banked on winning the League or Champions League in that time but when that failed they very quickly ran out of money. They cashed in on Ferdinand, Woodgate and Robbie Keane in 2002 and that was the beginning of the end for them.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			is 2nd to a poor Barca side doing well in the league for Real Madrid?
		
Click to expand...

Given the mess of last year it’s a relative improvement, yea. There was no real love for a reappointment of Zidane but he’s doing a good job in a time of unrest at Real.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 27, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Not really. Their big spending came in the very late 90s and into the early 2000s and was pretty short lived. They signed quite a few 4-5m players in 1999 but then Ferdinand was their first signing over £10m and they went big after that. Ferdinand, *Dacourt* and Viduka came in in 00/01, *Keane*, Fowler and Johnson in 01/02 and then the money dried up. They banked on winning the League or Champions League in that time but when that failed they very quickly ran out of money. They cashed in on Ferdinand, Woodgate and Robbie Keane in 2002 and that was the beginning of the end for them.
		
Click to expand...

A year out on those boys, Davourt 99/00 and Keane 00/01. Keane being the first 10m+ that signalled the start of the end for em. CL gamble that failed hard. But hey, they had their night in Valencia and can call themselves the biggest team in the championship....


----------



## Dan2501 (Feb 27, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			A year out on those boys, Davourt 99/00 and Keane 00/01. Keane being the first 10m+ that signalled the start of the end for em. CL gamble that failed hard. But hey, they had their night in Valencia and can call themselves the biggest team in the championship....
		
Click to expand...

Depends where you look. I'd consider Dacourt a 00/01 signing as it wasn't agreed until May of 2000, which to me, makes him an 00/01 signing as he didn't play for them until that season. Same thing for Robbie Keane who signed in the April of 00/01 after being on loan at Leeds from December, the permanent transfer went through for the 01/02 season. Also, Keane permanently signed 5 months after Ferdinand who agreed to join Leeds in November and made his debut in December, so Ferdinand was their first £10m+ player.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 27, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Depends where you look. I'd consider Dacourt a 00/01 signing as it wasn't agreed until May of 2000, which to me, makes him an 00/01 signing as he didn't play for them until that season. Same thing for Robbie Keane who signed in the April of 00/01 after being on loan at Leeds from December, the permanent transfer went through for the 01/02 season. Also, Keane permanently signed 5 months after Ferdinand who agreed to join Leeds in November and made his debut in December, so Ferdinand was their first £10m+ player.
		
Click to expand...

That's fair re playing dates. I was simply continuing the original convo about when money was spent (90's). But accept it's a little grey as to where you'd count em.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 27, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			KDB should take all their penalties. He may miss a few but he’s one hell of a striker of a football.
		
Click to expand...

Interestingly that was only the second penalty KDB has ever taken for City. The last one was in October 2016. He missed. Weird that it has taken over three years for him to have another go though. Lord knows Agüero is terrible at them, and he got plenty of goes at it! (In fact he missed one on the same day as KDB's missed one  )


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 27, 2020)

Oh and while we're on the subject, Gabriel Jesus has the worst penalty record I've ever seen. Scored 4.. missed 6!


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Oh and while we're on the subject, *Diane Abbott *has the worst penalty record I've ever seen. Taken 4.. missed 6! 

Click to expand...

Sorted Ori 😂😂


----------



## Wolf (Feb 27, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Sorted Ori 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

That's hilarious and relevant to your strikers crap ability at penalty taking isn't it🙄


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Oh and while we're on the subject, Gabriel Jesus has the worst penalty record I've ever seen. Scored 4.. missed 6! 

Click to expand...

Another fun one is Ronaldo's free kick record, he has gone Roberto Carlos on us. It is clearly his ball at Juventus but his record since joining up to the end of October 2019 was 29 taken, none scored. Only 7 on target. I heard a reporter mention last night that he had taken another, missed and indicated that was standard now so that makes me think he has not scored one since that stat either.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 27, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Another fun one is Ronaldo's free kick record, he has gone Roberto Carlos on us. It is clearly his ball at Juventus but his record since joining up to the end of October 2019 was 29 taken, none scored. Only 7 on target. I heard a reporter mention last night that he had taken another, missed and indicated that was standard now so that makes me think he has not scored one since that stat either.
		
Click to expand...

He has never been that good at free kicks. It's a myth perpetuated because you only see the odd amazing one that flies in the top corner. But his technique is very much throwing  at a wall and seeing what sticks. Basically he just leathers it, if it's on target it's hard to stop, but 90% of them are not. He is definitely not what you'd call a free kick specialist.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 27, 2020)

Ah remember Juninho Pernambucano. Now that was a free kick specialist.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 27, 2020)

[


Wolf said:



			That's hilarious and relevant to your strikers crap ability at penalty taking isn't it🙄
		
Click to expand...

what i dont understand is the best penalty taker apparently is the goalie Emerson. In extreme pressure he is the man. 1-1 at the Bernabeu don’t get much more extreme than that.


----------



## Wolf (Feb 27, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			[

what i dont understand is the best penalty taker apparently is the goalie Emerson. In extreme pressure he is the man. 1-1 at the Bernabeu don’t get much more extreme than that.
		
Click to expand...

If that's true they should have him banging all the penalties in.  Bit like Paraguay keeper Chilavert used to, he had 46 club goals and 8 international from taking free kicks and  penalties.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			He has never been that good at free kicks. It's a myth perpetuated because you only see the odd amazing one that flies in the top corner. But his technique is very much throwing  at a wall and seeing what sticks. Basically he just leathers it, if it's on target it's hard to stop, but 90% of them are not. He is definitely not what you'd call a free kick specialist.
		
Click to expand...

I suspect Ronaldo's success ratio was okay at some point but that stopped quite a while ago. His ego prevents him from letting anyone else take them and no manager seems able to stand up to him. Pretty disheartening for his team mates.


----------



## Dan2501 (Feb 27, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			[

what i dont understand is the best penalty taker apparently is the goalie Emerson. In extreme pressure he is the man. 1-1 at the Bernabeu don’t get much more extreme than that.
		
Click to expand...

I think the fear is if he misses it gives the opposition a chance to counter with a free shot at goal. Imagine in a shoot-out he'd be one of the 5 takers.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 27, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			I think the fear is if he misses it gives the opposition a chance to counter with a free shot at goal. Imagine in a shoot-out he'd be one of the 5 takers.
		
Click to expand...

I thought that but Man City are the kings of tactical fouling. If he misses the pen and it doesn't go out of play, one of them will just deck the guy nearest the ball and give Ederson the chance to get back. 

It's probably worth letting him take them, City have been awarded the second most penalties this season but only scored 43% of them:
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/topErhalteneElfmeter/wettbewerb/GB1


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Oh and while we're on the subject, Gabriel Jesus has the worst penalty record I've ever seen. Scored 4.. missed 6! 

Click to expand...

Think Mitrovic has given him lessons. Absolute shocker last night and then goes and gets the injury time winner so all is forgiven


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I thought that but Man City are the kings of tactical fouling. If he misses the pen and it doesn't go out of play, one of them will just deck the guy nearest the ball and give Ederson the chance to get back.

It's probably worth letting him take them, City have been awarded the second most penalties this season but only scored 43% of them:
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/topErhalteneElfmeter/wettbewerb/GB1

Click to expand...

Tactical fouls is the correct answer. 👍Allla Ramos.


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Mendy started off well as an attacking outlet though. Perhaps his multiple injuries derailed him somewhat. Mangala for 40 odd million was a good one though.
		
Click to expand...




Kellfire said:



			Ah remember Juninho Pernambucano. Now that was a free kick specialist.
		
Click to expand...

His technique was actually the original proper knuckleball. I suspect he missed a lot more than he scored but we only saw highlights in that era from France. Although he could manipulate the ball in a more traditional way too.

With freekicks I really don't get why players can't mix it up. Close ones under the wall or clipped, mid range a mix with the whipped Beckham type and the knuckleball or thunderb*tard from range.

The best freekick takers in England from the last 20 years were Beckham and Ian Harte IMO.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 27, 2020)

Juninho Pernambucano was most likely the best free kick taker of all time. The sheer number he scored is impressive, but also the different styles. Some he laced in from distance, others he curled in with finesse. Definitely the best I've seen. 

Just saw this list on an article published about 10 months ago:
*TOP 10 FREE KICK TAKERS EVER *
1. Juninho - 77
2. Pele - 70
3=. Legrottaglie - 66
3=. Ronaldinho - 66
5. Beckham - 65
6=. Maradona - 62
6=. Zico - 62
8. Ronald Koeman - 60
9=. Ceni - 59
9=.  Carioca - 59

Ceni was a goalkeeper I believe.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Juninho Pernambucano was most likely the best free kick taker of all time. The sheer number he scored is impressive, but also the different styles. Some he laced in from distance, others he curled in with finesse. Definitely the best I've seen.

Just saw this list on an article published about 10 months ago:
*TOP 10 FREE KICK TAKERS EVER *
1. Juninho - 77
2. Pele - 70
3=. Legrottaglie - 66
3=. Ronaldinho - 66
5. Beckham - 65
6=. Maradona - 62
6=. Zico - 62
8. Ronald Koeman - 60
9=. Ceni - 59
9=.  Carioca - 59

Ceni was a goalkeeper I believe. 

Click to expand...

What those figures don't tell you is what their success ratio was. Beckham and Ronaldo, still, for example wouldn't let anyone else take a free kick so they had every one going. I want someone with the best score ratio, not necessarily the most goals.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 27, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What those figures don't tell you is what their success ratio was. Beckham and Ronaldo, still, for example wouldn't let anyone else take a free kick so they had every one going. I want someone with the best score ratio, not necessarily the most goals.
		
Click to expand...

Becks was definitely justified in taking them though. He was certainly one of the best we've ever seen in the game. 

This is interesting but it's out of date: https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/revealed-20-best-free-kick-takers-european-football   As it mentions there, Bale is great at free kicks and was probably annoyed that Ronaldo was taking them all the time when he was at Real.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Becks was definitely justified in taking them though. He was certainly one of the best we've ever seen in the game.

This is interesting but it's out of date: https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/revealed-20-best-free-kick-takers-european-football   As it mentions there, Bale is great at free kicks and was probably annoyed that Ronaldo was taking them all the time when he was at Real.
		
Click to expand...

Becks was for a spell but then he stopped scoring so often and also ended up taking them when they did not suit him, ie better for a left footer. At his peak he was tremendous, no question


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 27, 2020)

Beckham from what I recall was superb early doors - excellent from a dead ball but later years seemed to be more miss than hit - the game against Greece was a perfect example , I think it was 8? Maybe more free kicks that he had that day that were poor , it’s whether a team is willing to take the risk and keep letting someone take a free kick waiting for that one to go in. Juninho was class though - seemed to remember Totti was pretty good as well


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 27, 2020)

Mihajlovic once scored three free kicks in one game. That's a pretty decent strike rate.


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 27, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What those figures don't tell you is what their success ratio was. Beckham and Ronaldo, still, for example wouldn't let anyone else take a free kick so they had every one going. I want someone with the best score ratio, not necessarily the most goals.
		
Click to expand...

That's not true on Beckham. Irwin used to take plenty and was bloody good.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 27, 2020)

4LEX said:



			That's not true on Beckham. Irwin used to take plenty and was bloody good.
		
Click to expand...

As Beckham became more 'the star' the fewer went elsewhere. When he was at Utd there were enough big players who would take the ball off him or point towards the like of Irwin, one of the best penalty takers as well in my memory. In his England shirt and when he moved on to other clubs the ball rarely went elsewhere for free kicks. As LP has pointed out in his post, he was excellent in his early career but in later years his success ratio declined quite markedly.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 27, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			As Beckham became more 'the star' the fewer went elsewhere. When he was at Utd there were enough big players who would take the ball off him or point towards the like of Irwin, one of the best penalty takers as well in my memory. In his England shirt and when he moved on to other clubs the ball rarely went elsewhere for free kicks. As LP has pointed out in his post, he was excellent in his early career but in later years his success ratio declined quite markedly.
		
Click to expand...

I don't agree with you. Maybe when he got old, but the decline happens with any player. I still don't think there was anyone else in the team good enough at free kicks to take them off him, even if he was slightly past his best. You knew he was still your best chance.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 27, 2020)

One for fun and to keep the theme going, who in your opinion was / is your clubs best free kick taker / scorer. They could be current or historic.

For Everton I will go for Leighton Baines.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I don't agree with you. Maybe when he got old, but the decline happens with any player. I still don't think there was anyone else in the team good enough at free kicks to take them off him, even if he was slightly past his best. You knew he was still your best chance.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely fine, we are allowed to disagree. I would have liked to have seen them shared out more as people have different specialisms. Beckham was not so good when it got closer to the goal, he needed a bit of space for the ball to dip. In those instances someone else should have taken them. Equally, some teams will have one left and one right footed taker so that they covered all locations across the goal. I don't think that particularly happened, certainly for England. A one person fits all doesn't work imo.

Incidentally, I am in no way claiming that he was not top class at free kicks, that would be daft.


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 27, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			One for fun and to keep the theme going, who in your opinion was / is your clubs best free kick taker / scorer. They could be current or historic.

For Everton I will go for Leighton Baines.
		
Click to expand...

Le Tissier, not sure he actually scored too many tbh, but he also hit a good corner (scored) and had assists from em too.


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 27, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Absolutely fine, we are allowed to disagree. I would have liked to have seen them shared out more as people have different specialisms. Beckham was not so good when it got closer to the goal, he needed a bit of space for the ball to dip. In those instances someone else should have taken them. Equally, some teams will have one left and one right footed taker so that they covered all locations across the goal. I don't think that particularly happened, certainly for England. A one person fits all doesn't work imo.

Incidentally, I am in no way claiming that he was not top class at free kicks, that would be daft.
		
Click to expand...

I guess everyone has their ups and downs, I just don't remember there being any other good takers waiting in the wings or anything. Especially not left-footers... the only left-footer in the team was Ashley Cole wasn't it!



Lord Tyrion said:



			One for fun and to keep the theme going, who in your opinion was / is your clubs best free kick taker / scorer. They could be current or historic.

For Everton I will go for Leighton Baines.
		
Click to expand...

Great shout, Baines had a lethal left peg. Shame Cole was keeping him out of the England side, lol. For Spurs we had Eriksen who great at them for a time, but then he went about 2 years without scoring one at one stage. Obviously before him we had Bale who used to bang them in for us when he was at his peak. Before Bale though we had years without a regular good free kick taker. Van der Vaart must have netted a couple back in the day I'm sure. Kyle Walker even netted two I think that I can remember. I remember Jenas scoring a couple. 

Actually one thing that annoys me is that Kane takes loads of ours, and as far as I can recall he has only scored one free kick ever, and that was a massive deflection. He must be scoring them in training, or just none of the other players are willing to tell him he can't have it.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 27, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1232991227404001281🤦‍♂️😂😂


----------



## fundy (Feb 27, 2020)

Henry the best at Arsenal Ive seen (no real surprise), weve struggled for a dead ball "specialist" since tbh, even xhaka gets a go nowadays lol


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 27, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1232991227404001281🤦‍♂️😂😂
		
Click to expand...

That was shit,cringe and funny all in one.

Cant wait for the PL title winning one #unbearable


----------



## Dan2501 (Feb 27, 2020)

I mean, it was pretty cringe. Firmino was great, Robertson actually delivered his lines pretty well and was actually quite funny, enjoyed the "Cap-Aldi" line. A lot funnier than I thought it'd be, wanted to hate it but couldn't, fair play.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Feb 27, 2020)

4LEX said:



			His technique was actually the original proper knuckleball. I suspect he missed a lot more than he scored but we only saw highlights in that era from France. Although he could manipulate the ball in a more traditional way too.

With freekicks I really don't get why players can't mix it up. Close ones under the wall or clipped, mid range a mix with the whipped Beckham type and the knuckleball or thunderb*tard from range.

The best freekick takers in England from the last 20 years were Beckham and Ian Harte IMO.
		
Click to expand...

I dont get why they dont pass a ball sideways more, say 3-4 yards away to an incoming shooter.

Okay you may get 1-2 others who may throw themselves in the way of the new line of shot, but it wont be 4 or 5.

They may even still deflect in past the keeper - lets call it the "Lampard".


----------



## Orikoru (Feb 27, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I dont get why they dont pass a ball sideways more, say 3-4 yards away to an incoming shooter.

Okay you may get 1-2 others who may throw themselves in the way of the new line of shot, but it wont be 4 or 5.

They may even still deflect in past the keeper - lets call it the "Lampard".

Click to expand...

You've reminded me of something that bugs me on free kicks. If it's over 25 yards out I don't see why they bother putting up a wall. Whenever someone scores from that range they dip it over the wall to the side of the goal that the keeper isn't covering and he has no chance. But if he just sacked off the wall and stood dead centre of the goal it would have to be some strike to beat a keeper with a dead ball from that distance wouldn't it?


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 27, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			I mean, it was pretty cringe. Firmino was great, Robertson actually delivered his lines pretty well and was actually quite funny, enjoyed the "Cap-Aldi" line. A lot funnier than I thought it'd be, wanted to hate it but couldn't, fair play.
		
Click to expand...

My favourite was Curtis Jones'   suggestion......obviously anything to wind a few blooos up is a winner in my book😁


----------



## fundy (Feb 27, 2020)

Pretty sure this is as strong a side as Arteta thinks he can pick currently so no arguments if thats not enough. Which minute am i calling for Torreira lol


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 27, 2020)

I am not sure about Ceballos in the Torreira role, except it is very attacking. Given how rubbish Olympiacos were, maybe this is good.  Score loads or go home.


----------



## fundy (Feb 27, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			I am not sure about Ceballos in the Torreira role, except it is very attacking. Given how rubbish Olympiacos were, maybe this is good.  Score loads or go home.
		
Click to expand...

like to see Torreira back there and Ceballos in either Xhaka or Ozils role tbh


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 27, 2020)

What’s your opinion of Fernandes so far now, @Liverpoolphil ?


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 27, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			What’s your opinion of Fernandes so far now, @Liverpoolphil ?
		
Click to expand...

You can’t tell after just 4 games
What? Shut the shuttle door,LP did it after 2
#sticktohockey


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 27, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			What’s your opinion of Fernandes so far now, @Liverpoolphil ?
		
Click to expand...

Should it have changed ? Surely got to wait a good couple of months

Not seen enough of him to change my inital opinion.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 27, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Should it have changed ? Surely got to wait a good couple of months

Not seen enough of him to change my inital opinion.
		
Click to expand...

I’d agree if your initial opinion hadn’t been such utter nonsense. He was good in his first game and excellent in his second.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 27, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			I’d agree if your initial opinion hadn’t been such utter nonsense. He was good in his first game and excellent in his second.
		
Click to expand...

Well said. First post put it out there. Definitely looks to be bedding in well


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 27, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			I’d agree if your initial opinion hadn’t been such utter nonsense. He was good in his first game and excellent in his second.
		
Click to expand...

My opinion is my opinion at the end of the day - there have been many times no doubt when you have given an opinion on a player that some will call utter nonsense - but I saw nothing in the first game to change my initial opinion of him and havent seen him since , I’ll prepare myself to be amazed at his ability when I do see him play again. If he becomes that good a player it won’t be long before he leaves to a club at the top challenging 👍


----------



## fundy (Feb 27, 2020)

lol Mustafi, its the round white thing (the ball not your heed), try heading it


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 27, 2020)

Not going so well for Arsenal or Celtic. Big last period of the game coming up


----------



## fundy (Feb 27, 2020)

how do you watch that 70 mins and take ceballos off ffs, keep the 2 liabilities on instead


----------



## Wolf (Feb 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			how do you watch that 70 mins and take ceballos off ffs, keep the 2 liabilities on instead
		
Click to expand...

Sounds like my BT sport not working is a blessing to not be watching


----------



## fundy (Feb 27, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Sounds like my BT sport not working is a blessing to not be watching
		
Click to expand...


youve seen it all before, Luiz thinks hes an attacking midfielder, Mustafi cant defend, Xhaka is slow and cumbersome, Ozil flattering to deceive, Aubam wasted out wide, Lacazette not justifying wasting Aubam etc etc

Ceballos was ok and Pepe been a complete breathe of fresh air, been excellent surrounded by complete mediocrity sadly


----------



## Wolf (Feb 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			youve seen it all before, Luiz thinks hes an attacking midfielder, Mustafi cant defend, Xhaka is slow and cumbersome, Ozil flattering to deceive, Aubam wasted out wide, Lacazette not justifying wasting Aubam etc etc

Ceballos was ok and Pepe been a complete breathe of fresh air, been excellent surrounded by complete mediocrity sadly
		
Click to expand...

Normal service resumed then


----------



## Slime (Feb 27, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			My opinion is my opinion at the end of the day - there have been many times no doubt when you have given an opinion on a player that some will call utter nonsense - but I saw nothing in the first game to change my initial opinion of him and havent seen him since , I’ll prepare myself to be amazed at his ability when I do see him play again.* If he becomes that good a player* it won’t be long before he leaves to a club at the top challenging 👍
		
Click to expand...

He already is 'that good a player' and only a fool, or someone heavily blinkered, won't allow themselves to see that.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 27, 2020)

Slime said:



			He already is 'that good a player' and only a fool, or someone heavily blinkered, won't allow themselves to see that.
		
Click to expand...

He’s trolling 🤷‍♂️
Liverpool players are given time to settle & adjust to the new surroundings,adapt to the water & different foods.
Other players don’t bang in a hat trick in their first game,they’re pants😂

LP also didn’t rate Neymar when he come onto the scene 😳😂


----------



## fundy (Feb 27, 2020)

quality finish from Aubam!


----------



## Wolf (Feb 27, 2020)

Seems my BT sport started working at the right time what a finish from Auba... Look much better since martinelli came on from the little I've seen.


----------



## fundy (Feb 27, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Seems my BT sport started working at the right time what a finish from Auba... Look much better since martinelli came on from the little I've seen.
		
Click to expand...

Martinelli his usual breath of fresh air, Lacazette a waste of space for 90+ mins especially as keeping Aubam out wide


----------



## Wolf (Feb 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			Martinelli his usual breath of fresh air, Lacazette a waste of space for 90+ mins especially as keeping Aubam out wide
		
Click to expand...

I'm a big Martinelli fan, Personally I think Laca race as an arsenal player is run, he's a passenger in most games these days and wasteful.


----------



## fundy (Feb 27, 2020)

Wolf said:



			I'm a big Martinelli fan, Personally I think Laca race as an arsenal player is run, he's a passenger in most games these days and wasteful.
		
Click to expand...

not quite sure whats happened with Laca, Arteta doesnt pick him much but plays him down the middle when he does

oh dear, oh dear oh dear


----------



## Wolf (Feb 27, 2020)

Well thats just shit.....


----------



## fundy (Feb 27, 2020)

Got everything we deserved (despite the away goals in ET being an utter shit rule)

Time to drop some of the deadwood and play the kids until the end of the season, massive clearout coming in the summer one hopes (been thinking that for many years)


----------



## fundy (Feb 27, 2020)

oh Aubam what a miss


----------



## Wolf (Feb 27, 2020)

How did he miss that 😳

But @fundy agreed time to play the kids, ship out the crap and start again. To many average players earning a big wage


----------



## fundy (Feb 27, 2020)

Leno
Maitlin Niles Holding Sokratis Saka
Ceballos Torreira Willock
Pepe Aubameyang Martinelli

get the deadwood on the bench, not ideal at the back still but you cant magic a rabbit out of the hat


----------



## Wolf (Feb 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			Leno
Maitlin Niles Holding Sokratis Saka
Ceballos Torreira Willock
Pepe Aubameyang Martinelli

get the deadwood on the bench, not ideal at the back still but you cant magic a rabbit out of the hat
		
Click to expand...

Is Mari injured 🤔
I'd like to see him playing and given a chance as the little I've seen if him he'd be our best defender.  Probably the only change id make to your line up there and put him in for Sokratis


----------



## fundy (Feb 27, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Is Mari injured 🤔
I'd like to see him playing and given a chance as the little I've seen if him he'd be our best defender.  Probably the only change id make to your line up there and put him in for Sokratis
		
Click to expand...

were the only club who could sign 2 defenders in the january transfer window and neither of them be fit at the end of February when our season is over!!!!


----------



## Wolf (Feb 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			were the only club who could sign 2 defenders in the january transfer window and neither of them be fit at the end of February when our season is over!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Bloody ridiculous isn't it, you can only hope then he wants them long term because loan signing that still aren't fit a month after signing is a joke. Doesn't help that Luiz has an aversion to stick his head on the ball as that's all he needed to do.


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 28, 2020)

I'm going to west ham away to arsenal next week.. in the arsenal end

2 good teams going forward who can't defend 

Going to be a cracker 

My cousin's first game (arsenal fan) but sorry I still want to win sod her 🤣


----------



## Dan2501 (Feb 28, 2020)

I turned off after Auba scored thinking that was it, Arsenal were through and then that happens. Fantastic. Has the pile on on Arteta happened yet? I mean, he should be getting Solskjaer treatment by now surely?


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 28, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



 I turned off after Auba scored thinking that was it, Arsenal were through and then that happens. Fantastic. Has the pile on on Arteta happened yet? I mean, he should be getting Solskjaer treatment by now surely?
		
Click to expand...

Am not to sure, maybe after he has spent a few quid, don’t think either Utd or Arsenal is a quick or cheap fix.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 28, 2020)

Slime said:



			He already is 'that good a player' and only a fool, or someone heavily blinkered, won't allow themselves to see that.
		
Click to expand...

So someone is a fool because they have a different opinion about a player ?!? Seriously !

Were you called a fool when you made you statement of “can’t think of a better backline that Utd’s “ ? 

I guess if he is “that good” I would expect him to be within the other top players in the Balon D’Or nominees? Nope couldn’t see him on that list 

At the end of the day he had a very good time stat wise in the Portuguese League - he isn’t the first to do that and there is a list of player who have done well in smaller leagues who have not produced that at the higher level on a consistent basis - so I think I’m very much well within my rights to hold back on any declarations of changing my opinion based on seeing him for one game when he looked on the edges and it passed him by 

If he turns out over the next 6/12 months to be the player that you believe he is right now then I’ll put my hand up - but don’t throw derogatory comments about just because someone rates a player differently to what you do - that’s supposed to be the beauty about football - people rate players differently as can be seen with your opinion about Utd’s backline. I suspect at some point you will hold your hands up to that.


----------



## Slime (Feb 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



*So someone is a fool because they have a different opinion about a player ?!? Seriously !*

*Were you called a fool when you made you statement of “can’t think of a better backline that Utd’s “* ?

*I guess if he is “that good” I would expect him to be within the other top players in the Balon D’Or nominees? Nope couldn’t see him on that list*

At the end of the day he had a very good time stat wise in the Portuguese League - he isn’t the first to do that and there is a list of player who have done well in smaller leagues who have not produced that at the higher level on a consistent basis - so I think I’m very much well within my rights to hold back on any declarations of changing *my opinion based on seeing him for one game when he looked on the edges and it passed him by*

If he turns out over the next 6/12 months to be the player that you believe he is right now then I’ll put my hand up - but *don’t throw derogatory comments* about just because someone rates a player differently to what you do - that’s supposed to be the beauty about football - people rate players differently as can be seen with your opinion about Utd’s backline. I suspect at some point you will hold your hands up to that.
		
Click to expand...


Read my post correctly before you make a reply, please.

No, obviously not. Only Ligue 1 leaders Paris-Saint Germain (20) have kept more clean sheets in all competitions this season than United (17) and Liverpool (17) in Europe's top five leagues. 

Silly comment, I think you know that.

Possibly not really qualified to comment after just one game, although I have no idea what game you're talking about!

You choose which one you think fits you best, I know which I'd choose.


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 28, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



 I turned off after Auba scored thinking that was it, Arsenal were through and then that happens. Fantastic. Has the pile on on Arteta happened yet? I mean, he should be getting Solskjaer treatment by now surely?
		
Click to expand...

Arteta has had an easy ride given the poor performances no doubt. However Arsenal are a bigger mess than United squad wise.....just look at the defence, midfield and attack. Only Auba is top class. It's also Arteta's first ever management job. On a related note I really can't stand this Arsenal team. They score a few tap ins against Newcastle and celebrate like they've won the title. Ditto with a scrappy and fortunate win over Everton - terrible attitude and mentality running through the club. I hope Arteta kicks half of those nomarks out and builds a proper team.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			Got everything we deserved (despite the away goals in ET being an utter shit rule)

Time to drop some of the deadwood and play the kids until the end of the season, massive clearout coming in the summer one hopes (been thinking that for many years)
		
Click to expand...

Is the argument for away goals counting in extra time that the home team has the advantage of playing at home second so this is some way balances it out? Genuine question.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 28, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Is the argument for away goals counting in extra time that the home team has the advantage of playing at home second so this is some way balances it out? Genuine question.
		
Click to expand...

It was originally brought in because previously teams would go away and park the bus. This meant a whole host of very dull games. The thinking was that giving away goals extra emphasis would encourage away teams to attack more, to create more interesting matches. That is my memory of why the change happened.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 28, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It was originally brought in because previously teams would go away and park the bus. This meant a whole host of very dull games. The thinking was that giving away goals extra emphasis would encourage away teams to attack more, to create more interesting matches. That is my memory of why the change happened.
		
Click to expand...

It’s one of those things that I see their aim but there’s no way to make it totally fair because for whatever reason being home second clearly helps in the overall tactical plan.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 28, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			It’s one of those things that I see their aim but there’s no way to make it totally fair because for whatever reason being home second clearly helps in the overall tactical plan.
		
Click to expand...

I think you can look at it both ways. For the Atletico game for example, if they pinch a goal early on then Liverpool need to score 3 to win, the whole game changes. The pressure is more on them as they can't afford to let Atletico score. Atletico can just sit back, soak up the pressure and try to pinch one on the break. Every time they cross the half way line Liverpool fans will break into a sweat.

Personally I think it distorts games, see example above, so I would bin it off.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 28, 2020)

Slime said:



			Read my post correctly before you make a reply, please.

No, obviously not. Only Ligue 1 leaders Paris-Saint Germain (20) have kept more clean sheets in all competitions this season than United (17) and Liverpool (17) in Europe's top five leagues. 

Silly comment, I think you know that.

Possibly not really qualified to comment after just one game, although I have no idea what game you're talking about!

You choose which one you think fits you best, I know which I'd choose.

Click to expand...

You know what they say about Stats

4 teams I believe have conceded less goals than UTD this season maybe 5 - when you bring in comps like Europa Lge as a marker it’s a lesser competition where you would expect UTD to stroll through that and not be troubled. 

But if you still can’t think of better back 5’s than Utd’s then that’s your opinion 

And why is it a silly comment in regards Balon D’Or ? If he is already that good his peers would have recongnised that surely ?

Fernandes may well turn out to be a good signing but if someone doesn’t see that yet it doesn’t mean they are a “fool” for refusing to see it.


----------



## Piece (Feb 28, 2020)

Me and boys are really looking forward to tomorrow's game. To see a fantastic team close up will be an education and exciting. For clarity, I was talking about Liverpool


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You know what they say about Stats

4 teams I believe have conceded less goals than UTD this season maybe 5 - when you bring in comps like Europa Lge as a marker it’s a lesser competition where you would expect UTD to stroll through that and not be troubled.

But if you still can’t think of better back 5’s than Utd’s then that’s your opinion

And why is it a silly comment in regards Balon D’Or ? If he is already that good his peers would have recongnised that surely ?

Fernandes may well turn out to be a good signing but if someone doesn’t see that yet it doesn’t mean they are a “fool” for refusing to see it.
		
Click to expand...

I specifically asked you about “so far” because you said he wasn’t very good in his first game when I thought he instantly fitted in and looked pretty accomplished and certainly had a better debut than most players ever do. I know highlights don’t prove everything but check out our last few games on YouTube - it’ll take you about fifteen minutes and you’ll see how his touches and awareness has instantly improved us.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 28, 2020)

And McTominay being back and Fred’s currently form shouldn’t be understated. We’ve gone from having a poor midfield three to a very accomplished looking three and with Pogba nowhere in sight.


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 28, 2020)

Man Utd's defensive record since January is really impressive whatever way you look at it. They've kept 9 clean sheets in under two months.  Yes a few have been against the likes of Bruges and Tranmere, however it's also been against Wolves twice, City and Chelsea. Credit where it's due. That includes switching left backs and not having a settled RCB.


----------



## Slime (Feb 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You know what they say about Stats

4 teams I believe have conceded less goals than UTD this season maybe 5 - when you bring in comps like Europa Lge as a marker it’s a lesser competition where you would expect UTD to stroll through that and not be troubled.

But if you still can’t think of better back 5’s than Utd’s then that’s your opinion

And why is it a silly comment in regards Balon D’Or ? If he is already that good his peers would have recongnised that surely ?

Fernandes may well turn out to be a good signing but *if someone doesn’t see that yet it doesn’t mean they are a “fool” *for refusing to see it.
		
Click to expand...

Correct, they are indeed not necessarily a fool as I said in my original post.


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 28, 2020)

https://www.eurosport.co.uk/footbal...navirus-spreads-report_sto7685530/story.shtml

Every cloud


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 28, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Man Utd's defensive record since January is really impressive whatever way you look at it. They've kept 9 clean sheets in under two months.  Yes a few have been against the likes of Bruges and Tranmere, however it's also been against Wolves twice, City and Chelsea. Credit where it's due. That includes switching left backs and not having a settled RCB.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t need a reason to lay into Utd but you have to give credit where credit is due. If Utd are turning it around, there turning it around. Does it matter who they play. In the same sense do we diminish Liverpool’s achievements in the league this year coz the league is weak. No.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 28, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



https://www.eurosport.co.uk/footbal...navirus-spreads-report_sto7685530/story.shtml

Every cloud
		
Click to expand...

My sister is a liverpool fan and despite the maths is still stressing over every game. I know this is nonsense but the evil brother in me is sooooooooo tempted to freak her with this 😆


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 28, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			My sister is a liverpool fan and despite the maths is still stressing over every game. I know this is nonsense but the evil brother in me is sooooooooo tempted to freak her with this 😆
		
Click to expand...

Spread the fear 👍🤣


----------



## fundy (Feb 28, 2020)

Leicester without Vardy Ndidi and Tielemans tonight


----------



## fundy (Feb 28, 2020)

Leeds keeper Casillas been banned for 8 games and fined 60k for racially abusing Leko of Charlton!!!


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 28, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I don’t need a reason to lay into Utd but you have to give credit where credit is due. If Utd are turning it around, there turning it around. Does it matter who they play. In the same sense do we diminish Liverpool’s achievements in the league this year coz the league is weak. No.
		
Click to expand...

I have serious doubts as to Man United turning it around long term - the recent form has been two games against Bruges, a fortunate win at Chelsea and one excellent half against a woeful Watford side. They do have a good defence though. Maguire has got loads of stick for his fee but he's a top defender, leader and will be value over 5 years. AWB is just a total beast and the best right back in the league defensive wise.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 28, 2020)

4LEX said:



			I have serious doubts as to Man United turning it around long term - the recent form has been two games against Bruges, a fortunate win at Chelsea and one excellent half against a woeful Watford side. They do have a good defence though. Maguire has got loads of stick for his fee but he's a top defender, leader and will be value over 5 years. AWB is just a total beast and the best right back in the league defensive wise.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree,” from the little acorn “ and all that. Trouble is there needs to be patience. Think OGS has a lot on his plate that won’t be sorted overnight.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 28, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Totally agree,” from the little acorn “ and all that. Trouble is there needs to be patience. Think OGS has a lot on his plate that won’t be sorted overnight.
		
Click to expand...

There's very little patience in football, especially in the media. Those people who are in privileged  position to get access to the top players and coaches then write absolute rubbish get right on my wick.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			There's very little patience in football, especially in the media. Those people who are in privileged  position to get access to the top players and coaches then write absolute rubbish get right on my wick.
		
Click to expand...

Think I am right in saying that Fergie was a game (or two max) away from the sack when he came to United and it didn't work out too bad in the end with patience and time. Wenger was similar (although definitely 2-3 seasons too long) and both built a couple of really strong sides. Klopp has had a little time now and you can really see how he's moulding a squad to fight on all fronts and with depth in all positions. OGS could turn it around, but he will need money and time. Whether he gets either or both remains to be seen. At the moment I'd say he's ahead of the game in terms of achievement but a long way away from where fans and the media expect United to be


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 28, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Think I am right in saying that Fergie was a game (or two max) away from the sack when he came to United and it didn't work out too bad in the end with patience and time. Wenger was similar (although definitely 2-3 seasons too long) and both built a couple of really strong sides. Klopp has had a little time now and you can really see how he's moulding a squad to fight on all fronts and with depth in all positions. OGS could turn it around, but he will need money and time. Whether he gets either or both remains to be seen. At the moment I'd say he's ahead of the game in terms of achievement but a long way away from where fans and the media expect United to be
		
Click to expand...

If memory serves me right, fergie was on a sticky wicket when City beat them at Maine rd 5-1. Oh how things changed.
Anyway, I think the Europa league could well be OGS saving grace, a win there and entry to the champs league. Alls then forgiven.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 28, 2020)

So Norwich who are bottom of the league have beaten City and Leicester in the same season. Who are second and third 🤔 might be a weaker league but it is screwing up a few coupons.


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 28, 2020)

The wheels are falling off for Leicester, that was a poor game that


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			The wheels are falling off for Leicester, that was a poor game that
		
Click to expand...

Still five points ahead of United but they definitely need to find their form soon. They looked flat.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 28, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Still five points ahead of United but they definitely need to find their form soon. They looked flat.
		
Click to expand...

They’re nine points ahead of Man Utd.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 28, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			They’re nine points ahead of Man Utd.
		
Click to expand...

You're correct. Not what Sky said straight after the game though


----------



## Slime (Feb 29, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			OGS could turn it around, but he will need money and time. Whether he gets either or both remains to be seen. At the moment I'd say he's ahead of the game in terms of achievement but* a long way away from where fans and the media expect United to be*

Click to expand...

Wrong. 
Most fans I know, including many on here, thought United would struggle to qualify for the Europa League and sections of the media also had United really struggling this season and thought OGS would be gone by Christmas.
United could be top four by close of play tomorrow!
I think they're doing as well/better than most people expected.




Tashyboy said:



			If memory serves me right, fergie was on a sticky wicket when City beat them at Maine rd 5-1. Oh how things changed.
Anyway, I think the Europa league could well be OGS saving grace, a win there and entry to the champs league. *All's then forgiven.*

Click to expand...

What's to forgive? 
He's done nothing wrong and has nowt to be forgiven for.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 29, 2020)

Slime said:



			Wrong.
Most fans I know, including many on here, thought United would struggle to qualify for the Europa League and sections of the media also had United really struggling this season and thought OGS would be gone by Christmas.
United could be top four by close of play tomorrow!
I think they're doing as well/better than most people expected.




What's to forgive?
He's done nothing wrong and has nowt to be forgiven for.
		
Click to expand...

There's nowt to forgive, from OGS point of view. but fans are fickle. lord forgive that one day “ fans” turn up at say Woodward’s house. Oh hang on. Think the fans have issues with the club more so than OGS. Some are still divided on OGS. A win in the europa league or a top four finish would go some way to winning some fans over.


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 29, 2020)

Fornals to Bowen for his first goal in West ham colours (on his first start aswell) 

Been calling for fornals to start for weeks now 

Scored against liverpool and now a class assist 

Haller should have made it two just now but heads straight at the keeper

Keep this up we need to win

Why isn't ings on the pitch?! Best striker in Southamptons squad by a mile


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 29, 2020)

Great finish and determination by Haller for the 2nd

Heads it out wide to Antonio who returns.. gets his head there before the keeper can catch but it's going wide so follows up and slides it in

2-1

Great game


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 29, 2020)

Fornals AGAIN our best creative player imo 

Gets the ball from a Haller flick. Plays it over the defenders head for Antonio to run onto and finish past the keeper 3-1


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 29, 2020)

Vital 3 points

if I was watching that game as a neutral I would think it was southampton struggling down the bottom and west ham mid table

possession may be 9 10ths of the law but its overated if you do nothing with it.. we had very little of the ball but 7 shots on target compared to 2

some great performances out there.. bowen great goal on home debut

Ngakia the young RB in his 3rd start for us... so far he has played liverpool home and away.. looked okay at home.. looked solid away and then today again looks a good young prospect.. not even first choice for the under 23s just injuries means he got his chance and he has taken it

for me MOTM is fornals. 2 cracking assists from a very hard working tidy player


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 29, 2020)

Well done - just feeling a bit sorry for you chatting away to yourself


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 29, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Well done - just feeling a bit sorry for you chatting away to yourself 

Click to expand...

Thanks 🤣 it's lonely in here when the big boys aren't playing


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 29, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Thanks 🤣 it's lonely in here when the big boys aren't playing
		
Click to expand...

Could you see green shoots today? What were you better at?


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 29, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Vital 3 points

*if I was watching that game as a neutral I would think it was southampton struggling down the bottom and west ham mid table*

possession may be 9 10ths of the law but its overated if you do nothing with it.. we had very little of the ball but 7 shots on target compared to 2

some great performances out there.. bowen great goal on home debut

Ngakia the young RB in his 3rd start for us... so far he has played liverpool home and away.. looked okay at home.. looked solid away and then today again looks a good young prospect.. not even first choice for the under 23s just injuries means he got his chance and he has taken it

for me MOTM is fornals. 2 cracking assists from a very hard working tidy player
		
Click to expand...

Fortunately we only play you twice a season as we never perform well.  Luckily we've looked better since new year. 

Not starting Ings will give any of our opponents a boost, imo that puts us at a disadvantage straight away.


----------



## fundy (Feb 29, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Thanks 🤣 it's lonely in here when the big boys aren't playing
		
Click to expand...


might get a bit busier soon


----------



## Wolf (Feb 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			might get a bit busier soon 

Click to expand...

Fingers crossed for Watford right now 😂
Just waiting for thd mad rush


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			might get a bit busier soon 

Click to expand...

Watford look set to do what we couldn't!! Hats off to them



Lord Tyrion said:



			Could you see green shoots today? What were you better at?
		
Click to expand...

Saw the green shoots against Liverpool on Monday . We looked very good then just a rare error from fabainski (post arsenal)  cost us the game 

Team looked Sharp and full of goals 

All 3 strikers chipping in, with a home goal debut for Bowen 



Papas1982 said:



			Fortunately we only play you twice a season as we never perform well.  Luckily we've looked better since new year.

Not starting Ings will give any of our opponents a boost, imo that puts us at a disadvantage straight away.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah you were our bogey team under akins but been going well for us against you for a little while 

Ings should be first name on the sheet. Great player 

Why loan a RB and then play the best midfielder there


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 29, 2020)

Being well and truely outplayed at the moment -worst performance all season. Missing Henderson and Gomez 

Not threatened Watford once


----------



## Dan2501 (Feb 29, 2020)

Really sucks for Deulofeu, looked a nasty knee injury that, hope it's not super serious, was looking very dangerous before then. I'd love the lad back at Everton.

Liverpool finally being punished for a poor performance, got away with a few under-par performances and scraped wins but doesn't look like it today. Had nothing going forward so far and not been able to stop Watford. Henderson looking like a big miss, missing that driving force from midfield to get the attacks going.


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 29, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Really sucks for Deulofeu, looked a nasty knee injury that, hope it's not super serious, was looking very dangerous before then. I'd love the lad back at Everton.

Liverpool finally being punished for a poor performance, got away with a few under-par performances and scraped wins but doesn't look like it today. Had nothing going forward so far and not been able to stop Watford. Henderson looking like a big miss, missing that driving force from midfield to get the attacks going.
		
Click to expand...

Just proves Henderson is one of the most important players in the league 

Apparently lallana unlucky hitting the post 

Not really.. missed the target ...


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 29, 2020)

Oh dear oh dear oh dear


----------



## Dan2501 (Feb 29, 2020)

Comical from Liverpool. What was TAA thinking? 3-0, game over.


----------



## fundy (Feb 29, 2020)

maybe Stu will self isolate for a couple of weeks now 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Wolf (Feb 29, 2020)

Absolutely loving this😂 still only 1  invincibles 👌


----------



## 3offTheTee (Feb 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			maybe Stu will self isolate for a couple of weeks now 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

There are a few on here that I should like to self isolate from here permanently


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 29, 2020)

Met office issue high  flood warning for Liverpool from 19:30 tonight


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 29, 2020)

Much as I'm enjoying the match and the result tonight lets remember this is the only PL defeat so far and Liverpool have still been the best side by miles. But wouldn't it be funny if it was the start of the title collywobbles


----------



## fundy (Feb 29, 2020)

3offTheTee said:



			There are a few on here that I should like to self isolate from here permanently
		
Click to expand...

as soon as you say that................


----------



## fundy (Feb 29, 2020)

Billie @Billie_T
4m
Liverpool were worried about the corona virus when the real threat was Sarrs


🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 29, 2020)

I’ll drink to this.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 29, 2020)

Anyone know what time MOTD is on?

Can’t wait for Liverpool TV fam.

Great banter 😳😂😂


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 29, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Much as I'm enjoying the match and the result tonight lets remember this is the only PL defeat so far and Liverpool have still been the best side by miles. But wouldn't it be funny if it was the start of the title collywobbles
		
Click to expand...

Miles better than Man City?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 29, 2020)

Let's ignore liverpool for a moment,  or even longer. This adds to the fun at the bottom even more. With the other results happening today, yesterday if you throw in the Norwich win, the bottom is THE interesting story right now.


----------



## PieMan (Feb 29, 2020)

Go the Glory Hornet Boys!!

Watford have been fantastic and fully deserve the win.

But Liverpool will be such deserving Champions - been incredibly good all season.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 29, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Miles better than Man City?
		
Click to expand...

Points and results would say so!

Only team close to them are Burnley!


----------



## fundy (Feb 29, 2020)

PieMan said:



			Go the Glory Hornet Boys!!

Watford have been fantastic and fully deserve the win.

But Liverpool will be such deserving Champions - been incredibly good all season.
		
Click to expand...


todays not the day for sentiments like that   town centre might be a bit lively your way tonight mind!

its Bournemouth I feel sorry for!


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 29, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Points and results would say so!

Only team close to them are Burnley!
		
Click to expand...

They've definitely performed better than City. But, draw them together for a two leg or four leg tie, I would struggle to pick a winner. Perhaps Liverpool, but definitely not "miles" in it. They are miles better than the other 18 teams


----------



## davemc1 (Feb 29, 2020)

Fair play to Watford, totally deserved. Enjoy your night boys 👍🏻

The defat doesn’t surprise me after our performances of late. However, the manner of the defeat does tho.


----------



## fundy (Feb 29, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			They've definitely performed better than City. But, draw them together for a two leg or four leg tie, I would struggle to pick a winner. Perhaps Liverpool, but definitely not "miles" in it. They are miles better than the other 18 teams
		
Click to expand...

what are you talking about? 22 points ahead after 27 games is utterly miles apart!!!!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 29, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Fair play to Watford, totally deserved. Enjoy your night boys 👍🏻

The defat doesn’t surprise me after our performances of late. However, the manner of the defeat does tho.
		
Click to expand...

Nothing there tonight - not see the team that flat for a while -been a bit of the pace since the mid season break. Watford were outstanding and hopefully they can get out of the relegation battle.


----------



## Fish (Feb 29, 2020)

The stats are quite eye opening, even though L’pool have had 70% possession!

Watford twice as many shots (14/7), 5 times more on target (5/1) 

so......Choo Choo Cough Cough Splutter Splutter Splat 😜


----------



## JamesR (Feb 29, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			They've definitely performed better than City. But, draw them together for a two leg or four leg tie, I would struggle to pick a winner. Perhaps Liverpool, but definitely not "miles" in it. They are miles better than the other 18 teams
		
Click to expand...

Isn’t that what the football league is all about?
Liverpool have thrashed the league, hence a, I believe, 22 point lead.
Only beaten once, to Citeh’s 6 losses.
26 wins to City’s 28.

Far better than the next team & Burnley!


----------



## Dan2501 (Feb 29, 2020)

Bet Norwich are annoyed. Big win against Leicester got them within touching distance but they're still going to end the weekend 6 behind Watford and West Ham.


----------



## Fish (Feb 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			todays not the day for sentiments like that   town centre might be a bit lively your way tonight mind!
		
Click to expand...

Police always get everyone out of the town centre pretty quick, they close pubs down until away fans leave much to the annoyance of landlords, especially when there’s no trouble but the beer is flowing, they then escort them to the station. There pretty on the ball at Watford.


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			what are you talking about? 22 points ahead after 27 games is utterly miles apart!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Yeah. They have pretty much played to their max, with a bit of luck along the way. City have been sloppy and dire at times and a few unlucky moments. As a result, liverpool deserve where they are.

But, if both teams were on form, not a chance Liverpool are "miles" better than City. Not a chance. Maybe a bit better, not sure. 

That's my opinion though, quoting the table wouldn't sway that opinion.

Dont worry though, Liverpool.still to win league by a mile


----------



## Fish (Feb 29, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah. They have pretty much played to their max, with a bit of luck along the way. City have been sloppy and dire at times and a few unlucky moments. As a result, liverpool deserve where they are.

But, if both teams were on form, not a chance Liverpool are "miles" better than City. Not a chance. Maybe a bit better, not sure.

That's my opinion though, quoting the table wouldn't sway that opinion.

Dont worry though, Liverpool.still to win league by a mile
		
Click to expand...

No more drugs for this man 🤪


----------



## fundy (Feb 29, 2020)

Fish said:



			Police always get everyone out of the town centre pretty quick, they close pubs down until away fans leave much to the annoyance of landlords, especially when there’s no trouble but the beer is flowing, they then escort them to the station. There pretty on the ball at Watford.
		
Click to expand...

long while since i went to Watford away, unless you count when Saracens were playing there!! Brother in law keeps trying to get me to go, hes gonna be unbearable after this result lol


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 29, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah. They have pretty much played to their max, with a bit of luck along the way. City have been sloppy and dire at times and a few unlucky moments. As a result, liverpool deserve where they are.

But, if both teams were on form, not a chance Liverpool are "miles" better than City. Not a chance. Maybe a bit better, not sure.

That's my opinion though, quoting the table wouldn't sway that opinion.

Dont worry though, Liverpool.still to win league by a mile
		
Click to expand...

That can be said about pretty much any previous champions tbf. All the top teams at their best are of a similar standard, but maintaining it is what makes them so much better. 

Lets take your argument and say they played twice. The chance is, the team that's been great all season will put in two good performances, the other won't. 

As to luck, City have missed how many penalties. That's not bad luck, that's then bit taking advantage of their own opportunities.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 29, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Yeah. They have pretty much played to their max, with a bit of luck along the way. City have been sloppy and dire at times and a few unlucky moments. As a result, liverpool deserve where they are.
		
Click to expand...

On that logic, if Norwich had scored more, conceded fewer, been less sloppy, had more luck and generally played better they’d be winning the league.

But instead, Liverpool are winning, because they’ve been miles better than the rest (all the losers, including Manchester City)


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 29, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			That can be said about pretty much any previous champions tbf. All the top teams at their best are of a similar standard, but maintaining it is what makes them so much better.

Lets take your argument and say they played twice. The chance is, the team that's been great all season will put in two good performances, the other won't.

As to luck, City have missed how many penalties. That's not bad luck, that's then bit taking advantage of their own opportunities.
		
Click to expand...

To be clear. Liverpool HAVE been miles better than anyone up to now. They've been relentless. Not disputing that.

But, that doesn't make them miles better than City. If they were miles better than City, then even in a one off match the bookies would make City, at best about 6/1 to win (or something in that region, depends what you mean by miles). But, at a neutral venue, I bet the odds for a liverpool win would at best be marginally better than city's chance to win. I would think anyway.

So, it is deluded to say they are miles better than City, it is more correct to say they have performed miles better than City up to now.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 29, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			To be clear. Liverpool HAVE been miles better than anyone up to now. They've been relentless. Not disputing that.

But, that doesn't make them miles better than City. If they were miles better than City, then even in a one off match the bookies would make City, at best about 6/1 to win (or something in that region, depends what you mean by miles). But, at a neutral venue, I bet the odds for a liverpool win would at best be marginally better than city's chance to win. I would think anyway.

So, it is deluded to say they are miles better than City, it is more correct to say they have performed miles better than City up to now.
		
Click to expand...

You do know that being better is determined by their performances, right? What other measure do you propose we use? I know an idea - let’s call it a “league table” where everyone plays each other home and away...

Nah, it’ll never catch on.


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 29, 2020)

JamesR said:



			On that logic, if Norwich had scored more, conceded fewer, been less sloppy, had more luck and generally played better they’d be winning the league.

But instead, Liverpool are winning, because they’ve been miles better than the rest (all the losers, including Manchester City)
		
Click to expand...

That is a terrible counter argument, but good try anyway


----------



## chrisd (Feb 29, 2020)

Anyone notice that the mighty Eagles won?


----------



## fundy (Feb 29, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Anyone notice that the mighty Eagles won?
		
Click to expand...

mighty? didnt watch the game then lol


----------



## Papas1982 (Feb 29, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			To be clear. Liverpool HAVE been miles better than anyone up to now. They've been relentless. Not disputing that.

But, that doesn't make them miles better than City. If they were miles better than City, then even in a one off match the bookies would make City, at best about 6/1 to win (or something in that region, depends what you mean by miles). But, at a neutral venue, I bet the odds for a liverpool win would at best be marginally better than city's chance to win. I would think anyway.

So, it is deluded to say they are miles better than City, it is more correct to say *they have performed miles better than City up to now*.
		
Click to expand...

The post you replied to had literally stated exactly that. it was never implied the were miles better than city as a team, simply they’d performed best.


----------



## chrisd (Feb 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			mighty? didnt watch the game then lol 

Click to expand...

 I saw the utube highlights 😉  (7 seconds worth)


----------



## fundy (Feb 29, 2020)

chrisd said:



			I saw the utube highlights 😉  (7 seconds worth)
		
Click to expand...

i wont lie, the big positive was i brought in the mighty Ayew for Vardy to my fantasy so managed to find a morsel of enjoyment from an awful game 

whats with the fake "local" rivalry between the two too?


----------



## JamesR (Feb 29, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			That is a terrible counter argument, but good try anyway 

Click to expand...

the proper counter to your BS is of course “if the dog hadn’t stopped to crap, it would have won the race”!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 29, 2020)

I do agree with the comment about the foot of the table taking on a very interesting twist with all the results this weekend. I still think despite their win Norwich are done but then three points from Villa up to Brighton in 15th so two from those five is hard to call


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 29, 2020)

I get what Swango1980 is saying on Liverpool and City.

The expected goals and points table puts City miles ahead on goals scored, ahead on goals conceded by 1 and also on points which is a good indicator on performance quality, rather than result. But it's all about points and Liverpool have been seriously impressive grinding out wins and deserve all the praise.


----------



## chrisd (Feb 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			i wont lie, the big positive was i brought in the mighty Ayew for Vardy to my fantasy so managed to find a morsel of enjoyment from an awful game

whats with the fake "local" rivalry between the two too?
		
Click to expand...

Ayew for Vardy ??? I guess it worked though!

Fake rivalry? So back in the day Alan Mullery was the Brighton manager and we took on Terry Venables as manager. Mullery went to Brighton and bad mouthed Palace on tv so it all kicked off.


----------



## fundy (Feb 29, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Ayew for Vardy ??? I guess it worked though!

Fake rivalry? So back in the day Alan Mullery was the Brighton manager and we took on Terry Venables as manager. Mullery went to Brighton and bad mouthed Palace on tv so it all kicked off.
		
Click to expand...

I heard a couple of mins before the close Vardy was out injured and Ayew came out of the hat haha


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			maybe Stu will self isolate for a couple of weeks now 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Not a chance 😂


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 29, 2020)

JamesR said:



			the proper counter to your BS is of course “if the dog hadn’t stopped to crap, it would have won the race”!
		
Click to expand...

Am gonna use that 😂


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 29, 2020)

Just for the record, this season's premier league is a rammel standard ( except Liverpool ) and the wins by Norwich v City and watford today etc etc etc dont mean owt and have not added to the excitement of the premier league. Glad we have cleared that up. 🤔


----------



## Stuart_C (Feb 29, 2020)

Liverpool lose and the haters crawl out the woodwork.😁

That  was a pretty rubbish performance, struggling to remember a poorer performance from us over the last 18months or so.

Nice to see Lovren hasnt changed🙄


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Liverpool lose and the haters crawl out the woodwork.😁

That  was a pretty shit performance, struggling to remember a poorer performance from us over the last 18months or so.

Nice to see Lovren hasnt changed🙄
		
Click to expand...

Stu I think the trolls have been waiting since the first game of the season. One defeat dont make you crap. City have a game in hand and could close the gap to 19 points. Wish I hadn't typed the last sentence 😖


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Liverpool lose and the haters crawl out the woodwork.😁

That  was a pretty shit performance, struggling to remember a poorer performance from us over the last 18months or so.

Nice to see Lovren hasnt changed🙄
		
Click to expand...


Nice to see Lovren hasnt changed.
Swop for otamendi 😂


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Liverpool lose and the haters crawl out the woodwork.😁

That  was a pretty shit performance, struggling to remember a poorer performance from us over the last 18months or so.

Nice to see Lovren hasnt changed🙄
		
Click to expand...

It’s just banter La 😎

Title already won so not to worry.

Plus you got your “like” off the plastic scouser 😳


----------



## PieMan (Feb 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			todays not the day for sentiments like that   town centre might be a bit lively your way tonight mind!

its Bournemouth I feel sorry for!
		
Click to expand...

Yeah the girls in Diamonds and Strings may have a good night!!

As a Chelsea fan even I feel sorry for Bournemouth....😉😂


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Liverpool lose and the haters crawl out the woodwork.😁

That  was a pretty shit performance, struggling to remember a poorer performance from us over the last 18months or so.

Nice to see Lovren hasnt changed🙄
		
Click to expand...

Think some (myself included) have said it was a bad performance on the day but that they have been superb all season and I've said a lot on here Klopp has done a great job in getting them to be so dominant in the PL this year. Of course it's "fun" when a side has such a bad day but no different to some Liverpool fans banter when City or Man Utd have a shocker. 

On a separate point, Klopp was class again acknowledging the Watford manager long before the whistle and making sure he took nothing away from the Watford performance


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 29, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Think some (myself included) have said it was a bad performance on the day but that they have been superb all season and I've said a lot on here Klopp has done a great job in getting them to be so dominant in the PL this year. Of course it's "fun" when a side has such a bad day but no different to some Liverpool fans banter when City or Man Utd have a shocker.

On a separate point, Klopp was class again acknowledging the Watford manager long before the whistle and making sure he took nothing away from the Watford performance
		
Click to expand...

Klopp is by far my fav manager in the league


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 29, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Klopp is by far my fav manager in the league
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. He's excellent as a football manager and comes across on social media, press etc and a very intelligent and likeable person. That interaction with the United fan the other week another case in point


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 29, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Agreed. He's excellent as a football manager and comes across on social media, press etc and a very intelligent and likeable person. That interaction with the United fan the other week another case in point
		
Click to expand...

Just a great personality to back up his ability 

Jose is a great manager and can be funny but he is pure arrogance 

Pep I can find a bit boring at times 

Klopp has the lot for me


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 29, 2020)

Well done to Watford deserved win.
Tactics stopped us very well, and took your chances.
Hope Delefeou is ok that looked nasty.
It’s rare for a team to play poorly to a man .
But that’s been coming for a while, 
Loveren I would question why he’s in before Matip.?


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 29, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well done to Watford deserved win.
Tactics stopped us very well, and took your chances.
Hope Delefeou is ok that looked nasty.
It’s rare for a team to play poorly to a man .
But that’s been coming for a while,
Loveren I would question why he’s in before Matip.?
		
Click to expand...

The title is won and the only thing domestically you had to play for was going unbeaten. When you've got something to protect it changes the mentality and I think we've seen that in the last 4-5 games. The only game that matters is Atletico in a few weeks.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 29, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well done to Watford deserved win.
Tactics stopped us very well, and took your chances.
Hope Delefeou is ok that looked nasty.
It’s rare for a team to play poorly to a man .
But that’s been coming for a while, 
Loveren I would question why he’s in before Matip.?
		
Click to expand...

But that’s been coming for a while.

CC, as honest an assessment as I have seen on here all season. It's one ave felt post Xmas, yet it was a Xmas that liverpool had a brutal time of yet they sailed through that, but since then something had been missing.
Me I cannot put my finger  on it. 
The prem is now a stroll with the 100 points of Citys to beat.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 29, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			But that’s been coming for a while.

CC, as honest an assessment as I have seen on here all season. It's one ave felt post Xmas, yet it was a Xmas that liverpool had a brutal time of yet they sailed through that, but since then something had been missing.
Me I cannot put my finger  on it.
The prem is now a stroll with the 100 points of Citys to beat.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t think Klopp is out to break records. That’s the press talking.
He will win the prem then concentrate on CL FA cup if were still in them .
To stay in them they will need to play better than the last couple of weeks.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 29, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Just a great personality to back up his ability

Jose is a great manager and can be funny but he is pure arrogance

Pep I can find a bit boring at times

Klopp has the lot for me
		
Click to expand...

Klopp is total cringe for me.
He starts laughing at nothing & the press cream their pants.
Obviously a good manager tho.


----------



## fundy (Feb 29, 2020)

PieMan said:



			Yeah the girls in Diamonds and Strings may have a good night!!

As a Chelsea fan even I feel sorry for Bournemouth....😉😂
		
Click to expand...


sounds like your talking from experience lol

is that what Kudos/Oceana became (showing my age now!)


----------



## Piece (Feb 29, 2020)

Did that really happen?! A jolly super evening all around! My boys are ecstatic are this gives them school bragging rights they have hardly had all season. 😄

There‘s a way to win and a way to lose. Liverpool were great today in their manner and a credit, especially VVD and Chamberlain for taking time and concern over Deulofeu’s serious knee injury.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Feb 29, 2020)

Piece said:



			Did that really happen?! A jolly super evening all around! My boys are ecstatic are this gives them school bragging rights they have hardly had all season. 😄

There‘s a way to win and a way to lose. Liverpool were great today in their manner and a credit, especially VVD and Chamberlain for taking time and concern over Deulofeu’s serious knee injury.
		
Click to expand...

Well Chamberlain knows how it feels and VVD was involved it’s not nice when that happens.
You deserved to win ,and hope your boys enjoy the kudos of beating the world champions.
It dosnt happen often enjoy.


----------



## Jensen (Feb 29, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Just a great personality to back up his ability 

Jose is a great manager and can be funny but he is pure arrogance 

Pep I can find a bit boring at times 

Klopp has the lot for me
		
Click to expand...

I'd take Klopp over Jose all day


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 29, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Klopp is total cringe for me.
He starts laughing at nothing & the press cream their pants.
Obviously a good manager tho.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. He’s an artificial, PR machine. Good manager but I doubt there’s much “real” in the persona.


----------



## Jensen (Feb 29, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Agreed. He’s an artificial, PR machine. Good manager but I doubt there’s much “real” in the persona.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure about that


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 29, 2020)

Piece said:



			Did that really happen?! A jolly super evening all around! My boys are ecstatic are this gives them school bragging rights they have hardly had all season. 😄

There‘s a way to win and a way to lose. Liverpool were great today in their manner and a credit, especially VVD and Chamberlain for taking time and concern over Deulofeu’s serious knee injury.
		
Click to expand...

Chuffed for you, proper chuffed, have a beer for me.


----------



## Kellfire (Feb 29, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233791890455179264
Some interesting times in Germany recently with ire aimed at the Hoffenheim owner.


----------



## 4LEX (Feb 29, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Agreed. He’s an artificial, PR machine. Good manager but I doubt there’s much “real” in the persona.
		
Click to expand...

I think he's the same as most managers, smiles and charisma when winning but has a dark side when he doesn't. I recall some spiteful and arrogant comments to reporters in the past when Liverpool lost or drew. Pep does exactly the same when City play badly.

Always thought Klopp was genuine though, just a little unhinged at times which makes him more likeable.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Feb 29, 2020)

Have Liverpool really been that good this season? There's no doubt that the results suggest that they have been the best team but are they really that far ahead of the others in terms of performances? This is a genuine question as I've only seen a few of their games in the whole. The rest I've seen highlights on MOTD or followed live text on BBC. They've certainly been very impressive in some games but in others it seems that they've found a way to win without playing particularly well. 

I'm not trying to diminish Liverpool's achievements this season as they will be worthy winners when they do win the title but they seemed to be playing far better last season in the games I watched than when I've seen them this season.


----------



## PieMan (Feb 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			sounds like your talking from experience lol

is that what Kudos/Oceana became (showing my age now!)
		
Click to expand...

No it's round one of the side streets!! 😂😂


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 29, 2020)

Lmao Liverpool battered and played shite, it has been coming.
No Klopp running down the touch line punching air like he’s won the treble.
Will win the league easy but nothing else


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 29, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Have Liverpool really been that good this season? There's no doubt that the results suggest that they have been the best team but are they really that far ahead of the others in terms of performances? This is a genuine question as I've only seen a few of their games in the whole. The rest I've seen highlights on MOTD or followed live text on BBC. They've certainly been very impressive in some games but in others it seems that they've found a way to win without playing particularly well.

I'm not trying to diminish Liverpool's achievements this season as they will be worthy winners when they do win the title but they seemed to be playing far better last season in the games I watched than when I've seen them this season.
		
Click to expand...

No weakest league ever


----------



## ColchesterFC (Feb 29, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			No weakest league ever
		
Click to expand...

Not sure I'd agree with that. There's not much doubt that the other Top 6 clubs haven't been up to their usual standards but I think Liverpool's results have made it look worse than it really is. Liverpool haven't played well and have managed to get a win. Man City haven't played well and have drawn or lost. It's Liverpool's results, rather than their performances, and the results and performances of the other big clubs that have made it seem like the league had been weak.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Feb 29, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Have Liverpool really been that good this season? There's no doubt that the results suggest that they have been the best team but are they really that far ahead of the others in terms of performances? This is a genuine question as I've only seen a few of their games in the whole. The rest I've seen highlights on MOTD or followed live text on BBC. They've certainly been very impressive in some games but in others it seems that they've found a way to win without playing particularly well.

I'm not trying to diminish Liverpool's achievements this season as they will be worthy winners when they do win the title but they seemed to be playing far better last season in the games I watched than when I've seen them this season.
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool looked better last season.
But this season they’ve also won whilst not playing their best,that’s how you win titles. 
I genuinely can’t see how anyone can argue that the top end of the league is poor this season,even Liverpool fans are pointing out how poor Chelsea,Man utd,Spurs & Arsenal are,but as soon as anyone suggests the competition is poor they throw a strop 🤷‍♂️


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 29, 2020)

They've been scraping results for the last few weeks but there have also been times this season when they've been unplayable. I think they'll regroup (bad luck Bournemouth) and try and get the necessary points asap. After that, depending on whether they are still in the CL can rotate some players and rest a few


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 1, 2020)

4LEX said:



			The title is won and the only thing domestically you had to play for was going unbeaten. When you've got something to protect it changes the mentality and I think we've seen that in the last 4-5 games. The only game that matters is Atletico in a few weeks.
		
Click to expand...

Disagree. Winning the domestic double or the treble is more important than going unbeaten imo.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 1, 2020)

Kellfire said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233791890455179264
Some interesting times in Germany recently with ire aimed at the Hoffenheim owner.
		
Click to expand...

Really interesting story. Is this the template for future racist incidents? Would they have played out the game had it been 0-0 or similar? 

Classy from Bayern still, at all levels by all accounts.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Really interesting story. Is this the template for future racist incidents? Would they have played out the game had it been 0-0 or similar?

Classy from Bayern still, at all levels by all accounts.
		
Click to expand...

saw that yesterday LT, apparently Bayern fans held up a banner. It never mentioned what the banner was all about but certainly upset a few.


----------



## USER1999 (Mar 1, 2020)

The banner was about Hoffenheims owner. Most clubs in Germany are owned by the fans, but not Hoffenheim. So they hate the ownership model.

Hoffenheims owner has overseen them climb 5 divisions or so. Fan owned clubs see this as an unwelcome trend.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			The banner was about Hoffenheims owner. Most clubs in Germany are owned by the fans, but not Hoffenheim. So they hate the ownership model.

Hoffenheims owner has overseen them climb 5 divisions or so. Fan owned clubs see this as an unwelcome trend.
		
Click to expand...

I can remember reading that bit and Having a smile thinking FFP. If he has bank rolled them there, fair play to him. Don’t think it warrants personal abuse though ☹️


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 1, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			saw that yesterday LT, apparently Bayern fans held up a banner. It never mentioned what the banner was all about but certainly upset a few.
		
Click to expand...

The translation I read suggested his mother was a lady of the night  😳. 

The tradition of clubs not having a wealthy backer is strong in Germany, something I think we don't quite grasp as we have always had them. Clearly they feel strongly. Not condoning it incidentally.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The translation I read suggested his mother was a lady of the night  😳.

The tradition of clubs not having a wealthy backer is strong in Germany, something I think we don't quite grasp as we have always had them. Clearly they feel strongly. Not condoning it incidentally.
		
Click to expand...

Classy from the fans, wasn’t it something along those lines that the Italian defender said to Zinedine Zidane in the World Cup final


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 1, 2020)

Just seen our segment on Motd

Nice to see us give full credit for the result, sometimes they like to focus on the other team being poor

Also nice to see the pundits mention the unrest in the fans is all against the way the club is run not against the players 

Wonder if the board will now sue the BBC like they did sky 🤣


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 1, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Classy from the fans, wasn’t it something along those lines that the Italian defender said to Zinedine Zidane in the World Cup final
		
Click to expand...

That's my understanding as well. We have lots of swear words and insults in this country but we don't go for family members as a rule, certainly not the parents. We only do civilised abuse 🤬😂


----------



## Fish (Mar 1, 2020)

😜😂😂


----------



## Pin-seeker (Mar 1, 2020)

Fish said:



View attachment 29277

😜😂😂
		
Click to expand...

It’s brilliant how they’re running away with the league & we can still laugh at them 😂😂


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 1, 2020)

Good game for the neutral here. Awful way to concede for us.


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 1, 2020)

You watching this one Phil?


----------



## Slime (Mar 1, 2020)

BRUUUUUNOOOOOO.

Carragher said he's the best player on the pitch!
Great strike.


----------



## fundy (Mar 1, 2020)

Slime said:



			BRUUUUUNOOOOOO.

Carragher said he's the best player on the pitch!
Great strike.
		
Click to expand...


come on Slime thats not right, you have to talk about Pickford and how bad he was there! Forum rules!!!


----------



## Slime (Mar 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			come on Slime thats not right, you have to talk about Pickford and how bad he was there! Forum rules!!!
		
Click to expand...

Fair point, well made.


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 1, 2020)

That rubbish player has scored again for United 

Will never adapt


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 1, 2020)

Pickford giving some of the lads arguing for his exclusion from England a favour though. If only he had longer arms.


----------



## Fish (Mar 1, 2020)

Not a good day for goalkeepers 😳😜😂😂


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			come on Slime thats not right, you have to talk about Pickford and how bad he was there! Forum rules!!!
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, Carragher said just that. 

Surely people aren't gonna use commentators quotes only when it suits them? 😉


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			Not a good day for goalkeepers 😳😜😂😂
		
Click to expand...

I dunno. Pope and Henderson will be enjoying it.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Mar 1, 2020)

Slime said:



			BRUUUUUNOOOOOO.

Carragher said he's the best player on the pitch!
Great strike.
		
Click to expand...

Might get ANOTHER man of the match


----------



## fundy (Mar 1, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			To be fair, Carragher said just that. 

Surely people aren't gonna use commentators quotes only when it suits them? 😉
		
Click to expand...


urgh dont compare me to him lol, would be hard to have quoted him mind when hes on mute too lol (cricket comm on)


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 1, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			You watching this one Phil?
		
Click to expand...

i am - game is ok , some nice touches from him , shocking goalkeeping at the moment , Richarlison getting a bit of battering - did Fred flick out a little, Matic superb at the moment and can see the class with Gomes.

Really poor from De Gea and if Pickford is England number one he has to save that even though Fernandes struck it nicely. 



pauljames87 said:



			That rubbish player has scored again for United

Will never adapt
		
Click to expand...

Just to clear up any nonsense- no one called him rubbish. 


In other news have the parades for Chelsea and Arsenal fans been sorted yet ? Seems their season is that non existent they are celebrating a team losing one match.


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			i am - game is ok , some nice touches from him , shocking goalkeeping at the moment , Richarlison getting a bit of battering - did Fred flick out a little, Matic superb at the moment and can see the class with Gomes.

Really poor from De Gea and if Pickford is England number one he has to save that even though Fernandes struck it nicely.



Just to clear up any nonsense- no one called him rubbish.


In other news have the parades for Chelsea and Arsenal fans been sorted yet ? Seems their season is that non existent they are celebrating a team losing one match.
		
Click to expand...

The Fred one is one that looks worse in slow motion imo. So many movements look unnatural and intentionally bad when slowed down. At full speed it was totally nothing, just a player extending himself for the ball. Not dirty for me.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Mar 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			i am - game is ok , some nice touches from him , shocking goalkeeping at the moment , Richarlison getting a bit of battering - did Fred flick out a little, Matic superb at the moment and can see the class with Gomes.

Really poor from De Gea and if Pickford is England number one he has to save that even though Fernandes struck it nicely.



Just to clear up any nonsense- no one called him rubbish.


In other news have the parades for Chelsea and Arsenal fans been sorted yet ? Seems their season is that non existent they are celebrating a team losing one match.
		
Click to expand...

Just a bit of good harmless banter on the Footie thread Phil 👍🏻😊


----------



## Fish (Mar 1, 2020)

😜😂😂


----------



## Pin-seeker (Mar 1, 2020)

Fish said:



View attachment 29278

😜😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Who thinks of em? 😂😂😂😂


----------



## Fish (Mar 1, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Who thinks of em? 😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Certainly not Jolly Hockey sticks 😜


----------



## fundy (Mar 1, 2020)

ridculous free kick from a ref a whole yard away lol


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 1, 2020)

Great save from both keepers at the end. 

That goal should’ve stood imo. We got away with one.


----------



## Slime (Mar 1, 2020)

Var being used as it should be.


----------



## Beezerk (Mar 1, 2020)

Stupid decision again, yes he was in front of the keeper but De Gea was going the other way, he wouldn't have saved it had the player not been there.


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 1, 2020)

Changed my mind on replay - it went under the offside player. He’s definitely interfering even though he didn’t mean to.

But that’s a gut punch. 

Everton look good under Ancelotti. Arsenal must be kicking themselves.


----------



## Slime (Mar 1, 2020)

Fair result.
Utd's first half, Everton's second half.
Two great saves right at the death.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 1, 2020)

Was Sigurdsson really interfering ? Could have gone either way and I’m surprised they overulled , De Gea was wrong footed by the deflection - but I guess you can see why.

Calvert Lewin was excellent but I’m not sure why Everton kept putting the ball on the head of Maguire from set pieces. 

Heck of a race for the 4th place trophy - Wolves still my bet for it .


----------



## Beezerk (Mar 1, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Changed my mind on replay - it went under the offside player. He’s definitely interfering even though he didn’t mean to.

.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah you're probably right, but De Gea was diving the other way


----------



## Slime (Mar 1, 2020)

I've just realised it's the Carabao cup final this afternoon!


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 1, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Yeah you're probably right, but De Gea was diving the other way 

Click to expand...

Yea it wouldn’t have changed the outcome but them’s the breaks. If he hadn’t had to move his legs out of the way, it’s a goal but as it is it’ll be argued both ways!


----------



## Jensen (Mar 1, 2020)

Jose Mourinho, anyone 🙄


----------



## Fish (Mar 1, 2020)

Good goal for me, De Gea had full sight of the ball and deflection as he reacted to it immediately after being wrong footed but could never have got to it, yes it went under the player, but De Gea could see the ball so the player wasn’t interfering imo. 

Utd got a squeeze.


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			Good goal for me, De Gea had full sight of the ball and deflection as he reacted to it immediately after being wrong footed but could never have got to it, yes it went under the player, but De Gea could see the ball so the player wasn’t interfering imo.

Utd got a squeeze.
		
Click to expand...

By the laws he’s active as he’s making movements to influence the game. If he lies still it hits him and doesn’t go in. He’s active, no goal.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 1, 2020)

Right the champions are on next. 👍 V the mighty villa.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 1, 2020)

David jones at sky must hate working with Roy keane 😂😂


----------



## Fish (Mar 1, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			By the laws he’s active as he’s making movements to influence the game. If he lies still it hits him and doesn’t go in. He’s active, no goal.
		
Click to expand...

That’s your interpretation, seen loads of players move away from a shot from an active (offside) position and goals been given, just because he’s in an active (offside) position, isn’t a given for a goal to be disallowed. 

Utd got a squeeze, and McGuire climbing all over players on corners, 2 shouts for pens not looked at, I think Everyon will feel hard done by overall.


----------



## pokerjoke (Mar 1, 2020)

The 2nd half was so frustrating,very little urgency and very little drive going forward.
Greenwood and Martial non existent up front.
We’ve definitely turned a corner but much work to do in the transfer market in the summer.
Such a poor display from the ref as well imo.


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			That’s your interpretation, seen loads of players move away from a shot from an active (offside) position and goals been given, just because he’s in an active (offside) position, isn’t a given for a goal to be disallowed.

Utd got a squeeze, and McGuire climbing all over players on corners, 2 shouts for pens not looked at, I think Everyon will feel hard done by overall.
		
Click to expand...

They probably will have been looked at and decided the usual jostling at a corner.


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 1, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			The 2nd half was so frustrating,very little urgency and very little drive going forward.
Greenwood and Martial non existent up front.
We’ve definitely turned a corner but much work to do in the transfer market in the summer.
Such a poor display from the ref as well imo.
		
Click to expand...

Greenwood is a great sub at this point but isn’t ready to play many full games.


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 1, 2020)

Would love to have a beer with Souness and Keane and see what they really think about some players and teams.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 1, 2020)

My dog is in hiding right now, rightly so 😡. De Gea is going to the opposite corner, not a chance in hell is he getting near that ball never mind him being affected by Sig.

On another note, corner practice tomorrow lads 🙄


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 1, 2020)

Are there any travel issues coming down from Manchester ? Lots of empty seats


----------



## Slime (Mar 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are there any travel issues coming down from Manchester ? Lots of empty seats
		
Click to expand...

If it was being played at The Etihad there'd still be lots of empty seats.


----------



## chrisd (Mar 1, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Right the champions are on next. 👍 V the mighty villa.
		
Click to expand...

Tashy, the only Mighty in this league are the EAGLES ok !!!!


----------



## Bazzatron (Mar 1, 2020)

My boy is 3 years old and I'll be taking him to matches when he's about 5...he's never going to believe the dross I've had to endure whilst he's watching Real Madrid and Juventus


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 1, 2020)

What a load of B******s that corner decision was.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 1, 2020)

John stones 🤭🤭🤭


----------



## pokerjoke (Mar 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are there any travel issues coming down from Manchester ? Lots of empty seats
		
Click to expand...

What was your excuse never travelling to Anfield


----------



## pokerjoke (Mar 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			John stones 🤭🤭🤭
		
Click to expand...

If he ever gets anywhere near an England cap again I will be shocked


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 1, 2020)

So if VAR reviewed the play why didn’t we get a penalty for Sigurdsson being took out by Wan-Bissaka in the build up?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1234157201985540096


----------



## Pin-seeker (Mar 1, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			What was your excuse never travelling to Anfield
		
Click to expand...

Stu gave him the wrong direction’s. 😂🤣


----------



## Slime (Mar 1, 2020)

That was a great tackle, proper defending.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 1, 2020)

Slime said:



			That was a great tackle, proper defending.
		
Click to expand...

Yep clearly got the ball clean - didn’t jump in - was just a good hard committed tackle. Poor decision to give him a yellow


----------



## ColchesterFC (Mar 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So if VAR reviewed the play why didn’t we get a penalty for Sigurdsson being took out by Wan-Bissaka in the build up?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1234157201985540096

Click to expand...

It was a 50/50 ball that went 51/49 in favour of Sigurdsson so by your own previous theory it's not a foul.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			John stones 🤭🤭🤭
		
Click to expand...

swop Otamendi and stones for lovers, final offer.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So if VAR reviewed the play why didn’t we get a penalty for Sigurdsson being took out by Wan-Bissaka in the build up?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1234157201985540096

Click to expand...

No way a pen. Sigurdsson should've done better with the shot in fairness.


----------



## pokerjoke (Mar 1, 2020)

Really enjoyed that game,great save at the end.
Now for a Luke Donald win


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 1, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			swop Otamendi and stones for lovers, final offer.
		
Click to expand...

Nah I'll keep Lovren thanks 😁


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			No way a pen. Sigurdsson should've done better with the shot in fairness.
		
Click to expand...

Wasn’t even reviewed by VAR, and tbf what happened with shot is irrelevant to him being took out.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 1, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			swop Otamendi and stones for lovers, final offer.
		
Click to expand...

wounded.

PS, who is presenting the cup. Has Yoko Ono grown a Tash.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Wasn’t even reviewed by VAR, and tbf what happened with shot is irrelevant to him being took out.
		
Click to expand...

So what do you expect? The 2 yernited players not make a challenge? If he puts it in the bottom corner you don't complain about the challenge. Instead hes tried to to poke it past the keeper.

Sigurdsson has to take responsibility for A, a poor finish and B not reacting and getting back into position.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 1, 2020)

And nobody else has any responsibility?

Yes, I’m annoyed he didn’t score, still a foul imo, if he’d of jumped up and made a move that would of being interfering with play the lino would of flagged.
Neither officials on the pitch saw no reason not to award a goal.
Deflecting onto Gylfi’s actions are red herrings.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 1, 2020)

Guess by the letter of the law it’s a late challenge and taking the man after the ball has been played - but it’s rare you see them given when it happens a lot but really should be a penalty and maybe it’s surprising that VAR didn’t look at it


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			And nobody else has any responsibility?

Yes, I’m annoyed he didn’t score, still a foul imo, if he’d of jumped up and made a move that would of being interfering with play the lino would of flagged.
Neither officials on the pitch saw no reason not to award a goal.
Deflecting onto Gylfi’s actions are red herrings.
		
Click to expand...

Nope they’re told to defer these things to VAR. They aren’t sure if Sigurdsson is interfering so they use the option available to them and got it correct.


----------



## PieMan (Mar 1, 2020)

So Yernited drew and the Spuds got beat; still Chelsea's main challengers for 4th are Wolves and Sheffield Utd........😉😂😂😂😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			And nobody else has any responsibility?

Yes, I’m annoyed he didn’t score, still a foul imo, if he’d of jumped up and made a move that would of being interfering with play the lino would of flagged.
Neither officials on the pitch saw no reason not to award a goal.
Deflecting onto Gylfi’s actions are red herrings.
		
Click to expand...

No it's not. He should've done better with both situations.


----------



## Beezerk (Mar 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			John stones 🤭🤭🤭
		
Click to expand...

The gift that keeps on giving


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Mar 1, 2020)

Having watched Pickford today and the goal he conceded, I am really concerned for England. He isn't the best keeper we have and I feel he's an accident waiting to happen. Granted he hasn't done it in an England shirt but I think his PL form is patchy at best. On a similar note, what has happened to De Gea. He was touted as the best keeper in the world but looks so much more nervy these days and lacking in confidence. He still produces some great saves but his touch on the ball and on-field persona seems far more removed from where he was two seasons ago


----------



## Jensen (Mar 1, 2020)

PieMan said:



			So Yernited drew and the Spuds got beat; still Chelsea's main challengers for 4th are Wolves and Sheffield Utd........😉😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Proves how poor the big have been this season


----------



## Jensen (Mar 1, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Proves how poor the big Boys have been this season
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Swingalot (Mar 1, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Anyone notice that the mighty Eagles won?
		
Click to expand...

Oh yes I noticed!

A truly brilliant day out. of the best away days for a while.


----------



## fundy (Mar 1, 2020)

Videos emerging on social media of Villa fans fighting amongst themselves at Wembley today


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			Videos emerging on social media of Villa fans fighting amongst themselves at Wembley today 

Click to expand...

It was the same at Wembley when I went in 1982 to watch The mighty Rainworth miners welfare play Forest Green rovers in the FA Vase final.


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 1, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			It was the same at Wembley when I went in 1982 to watch The mighty Rainworth miners welfare play Forest Green rovers in the FA Vase final.
		
Click to expand...

 Why were Villa fans fighting each other that day?


----------



## Captainron (Mar 1, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Why were Villa fans fighting each other that day?
		
Click to expand...

Tashys signature is worth a few bob and he can only sign a few....


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 1, 2020)

The mini-league for 4th/5th place is so weak this year....

Congratulations to Watford, the game at Anfield could have also seen a different result on another day.


----------



## PieMan (Mar 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			The mini-league for 4th/5th place is so weak this year....

Congratulations to Watford, the game at Anfield could have also seen a different result on another day.

Click to expand...

You could argue that it's the battle for 4th/5th and relegation that's kept the league interesting!!😉😀

Still very happy that my boys are still in 4th when a lot of people had us down for being nowhere near CL contention. If we do finish in 4th with our current injury list and a fair few players who need to be moved on at the end of the season then Frank gets a fair bit of credit from me.


----------



## fundy (Mar 1, 2020)

PieMan said:



			You could argue that it's the battle for 4th/5th and relegation that's kept the league interesting!!😉😀

Still very happy that my boys are still in 4th when a lot of people had us down for being nowhere near CL contention. If we do finish in 4th with our current injury list and a fair few players who need to be moved on at the end of the season then Frank gets a fair bit of credit from me.
		
Click to expand...


we took Luiz we dont want anymore ok!!!!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 2, 2020)

PieMan said:



			You could argue that it's the battle for 4th/5th and relegation that's kept the league interesting!!😉😀

Still very happy that my boys are still in 4th when a lot of people had us down for being nowhere near CL contention. If we do finish in 4th with our current injury list and a fair few players who need to be moved on at the end of the season then Frank gets a fair bit of credit from me.
		
Click to expand...

That tends to be the case quite often. Last year was an exception but usually the relegation battle goes closer to the wire and is much more interesting.


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 2, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Would love to have a beer with Souness and Keane and see what they really think about some players and teams.
		
Click to expand...

Because they're normally shy on the telly?


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 2, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Because they're normally shy on the telly? 

Click to expand...

Just imagine what they’d say a few bevvies in!


----------



## Jensen (Mar 2, 2020)

Regardless of Saturdays result, Liverpool will still win the league.
Despite what's been said about the league being weak this year, you can only beat what's in front of you. So early congratulations


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 2, 2020)

Imagine if the wheels totally come off and Liverpool just lose every game for the next few weeks. Would be amazing drama.


----------



## Scoobiesnax (Mar 2, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Imagine if the wheels totally come off and Liverpool just lose every game for the next few weeks. Would be amazing drama.
		
Click to expand...

I'd prefer if they didn't; I'll happily let spurs keep doing that


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 2, 2020)

Scoobiesnax said:



			I'd prefer if they didn't; I'll happily let spurs keep doing that 

Click to expand...

I don't even watch our games anymore. My main takeaway from the weekend was that Jimenez got me some points in Fantasy League.


----------



## User62651 (Mar 2, 2020)

A 3-0 loss in a game that doesn't matter is maybe a blessing in disguise?

Might ease some pressure and get them playing as we know they can. Refocus and know they aren't invincible.

They've looked a bit average last few games.

Lovren seems to be the weak link.

Henderson may be more valuable than we think too.

For Liverpool winning the league is everything, ECL is great but they've been in the last 2 finals winning last year. Bayern are probably due another and it'd be nice to see Man City or Juventus win it.

FA Cup is only important to the teams in 7th 8th 9th and lower in league who can use it as a route into Europa League.

Winning the league is all Liverpool have to do this season for it to be a success.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 2, 2020)

Does anyone think this Coronavirus is going to start having a big impact on life in the UK, or just fizzle out. Just wondering how it could effect the Premiership. Imagine in 2-3 weeks, all football matches are called off. When would they replay them? If they were to be played, would it be behind closed doors? Or, if they couldn't be played, would this season effectively be wiped out?


----------



## 4LEX (Mar 2, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			The 2nd half was so frustrating,very little urgency and very little drive going forward.
Greenwood and Martial non existent up front.
We’ve definitely turned a corner but much work to do in the transfer market in the summer.
Such a poor display from the ref as well imo.
		
Click to expand...

No corners have been turned. It's been a few results that have papered over average performances and the cracks short term. Yesterday was another average performance - Everton probably shaded it. United are snuck on a roundabout of mediocrity because you've got the worst manager in the league in charge. He keeps changing formations, playing people out of position, bad in game management and relies on individual quality and luck. He was grinning like a fool after the game because he views that as a good result. City will probably roll you over next week and then it'll be panic stations again. 

The only positive is Fernandes has come in and shown right away the difference a really top class player AND attitude can make. Watch him and Martial - both have talent but only one has the attitude you need to cut it at the top level. But like anything United related it begs the question why wasn't he signed in the summer, why did the deal almost fall apart in January and why did it take a Barcelona bid along with a 2-0 home defeat to Burnley to push Woodward into action. I'd not have one bit of faith he's got the skills to get the really key signings you need over the line in the face of genuine competition.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Mar 2, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Does anyone think this Coronavirus is going to start having a big impact on life in the UK, or just fizzle out. Just wondering how it could effect the Premiership. Imagine in 2-3 weeks, all football matches are called off. When would they replay them? If they were to be played, would it be behind closed doors? Or, if they couldn't be played, would this season effectively be wiped out?
		
Click to expand...

At the moment with only 36 confirmed cases it isn't an issue. Once that gets into the thousands and the daily rate increases as we've seen in other countries I can see a lot of sporting fixtures impacted. With the Euros this season it'll be hard to extend the season and not sure they could cram extra midweek games especially if the likes of City and Liverpool are in the CL and the other English sides in the Europa league have an extended run


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Mar 2, 2020)

Why do matches have to be called off? Play them behind closed doors. Theres no risk to the masses then


----------



## Jensen (Mar 2, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I don't even watch our games anymore /aQUOTE]

Really!!! Have you changed your views on Mourinho now ?
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 2, 2020)

4LEX said:



			No corners have been turned. It's been a few results that have papered over average performances and the cracks short term. Yesterday was another average performance - Everton probably shaded it. United are snuck on a roundabout of mediocrity because you've got the worst manager in the league in charge. He keeps changing formations, playing people out of position, bad in game management and relies on individual quality and luck. He was grinning like a fool after the game because he views that as a good result. City will probably roll you over next week and then it'll be panic stations again.

The only positive is Fernandes has come in and shown right away the difference a really top class player AND attitude can make. Watch him and Martial - both have talent but only one has the attitude you need to cut it at the top level. But like anything United related it begs the question why wasn't he signed in the summer, why did the deal almost fall apart in January and why did it take a Barcelona bid along with a 2-0 home defeat to Burnley to push Woodward into action. I'd not have one bit of faith he's got the skills to get the really key signings you need over the line in the face of genuine competition.
		
Click to expand...

United's dealing in the transfer market are really really poor. Yes, Fernandes looks good in terms of not only ability, but his mindset. However, you are right, why has it taken so long to sign somebody like that. 

It is as if now, United wait until players confirm their ability at other clubs, and only then try to buy them. Problems with waiting that long are:


The players will now command a much higher transfer fee
United risk losing out because other clubs will come in earlier and sign these players before United even think about signing them
The players United end up buying, are then players that other big clubs have not ultimately signed (could be a sign they are not as good as might be suggested), or they are big big players that may well now be looking for a move to earn big bucks, with wanting to win titles almost being secondary (e.g. potentially Pogba and Sanchez)
Go back to the days when United were successful, if they didn't come through the youth system, United would buy top talent when they were still relatively young, often before a lot of the rest of Europe even came sniffing or put in a genuine offer. If United acted like they did back then, they would have probably already gone out and bought a player of the calibre of James Maddison or Jack Grealish a year or 2 ago. Instead, if they do go for players like that in the summer, they are basically waiting until their clubs can demand the highest possible transfer fee and players the highest possible wage. Basically, United look really slow off the mark.

Worse still, there are players at the club who should have been shipped off long long ago, but for some reason we keep hold of them. Phil Jones, Lingard, Pereira, Dalot have all done well to pick up a salary at United for as long as they have.

I wouldn't blame the managers for that, it just seems that at board level they don't have anyone that really knows what they are doing. Or at least, they don't have the skills that Gill would have had.

In terms of Solskjaer himself, yes he has never proved himself to be a great manager. So, basically United have employed an ex-player that the fans are not likely to get angry with, even when things go wrong. Basically, the safe choice. And, I'd imagine Solksjaer would be a bit of a "yes" man.

Personally, if you added a player like Grealish into midfield (bit of creativity and confidence), Traore on the right (raw pace and strength), and a player like Harry Kane or Jiminez (proper goal scorer) up front, the overall team would start to look quite good, on paper. But, the question would be, good Solskjaer get that team to compete with the likes of Man City or Liverpool? My thought, no, probably not. I doubt there is much evidence out there to say he has the talent and personality to get the best out of players in the way Guardiola or Klopp can.  I'd think there would be a better chance of someone like Pochettino or even Nono Espirito Santo getting a lot more out of the players. But, given the disastrous antics of the United board since Ferguson left, it is hard to think they are suddenly going to start getting it right


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 2, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Why do matches have to be called off? Play them behind closed doors. Theres no risk to the masses then

Click to expand...

Imagine Liverpool celebrating their Premier League win to an empty stadium


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 2, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Really!!! Have you changed your views on Mourinho now ?
		
Click to expand...

In what sense? I still think he was the only man for the job once they'd decided to let Poch go. He's done ok up to a point, it is obviously going to be a struggle without any strikers though. I do question his decision to leave Toby and Jan out when we were already without Hugo though, that was a bit baffling. I said it before but after the City & Villa wins he had the best record other than Liverpool since his (Mourinho) appointment. Losing the next three games in all comps has tarnished that a bit, but he needs to find an answer to that no striker conundrum, and apparently he is unwilling to chuck Parrott in for whatever reason.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Mar 2, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Imagine Liverpool celebrating their Premier League win to an empty stadium
		
Click to expand...

And?....do you not think every Liverpool fan would be celebrating  then?


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 2, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			And?....do you not think every Liverpool fan would be celebrating  then?
		
Click to expand...

What?


----------



## Slime (Mar 2, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Would love to have a beer with Souness and Keane and see what they really think about some players and teams.
		
Click to expand...

Oooh, I'd love to see them in 'I'm a Celebrity'.


----------



## Slime (Mar 2, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Does anyone think this Coronavirus is going to start having a big impact on life in the UK, or just fizzle out. Just wondering how it could effect the Premiership. Imagine in 2-3 weeks, all football matches are called off. When would they replay them? If they were to be played, would it be behind closed doors? Or, if they couldn't be played, would this season effectively be wiped out?
		
Click to expand...


As Bunkermagnet said, play the games behind closed doors would be the obvious answer.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 2, 2020)

Slime said:



			Oooh, I'd love to see them in 'I'm a Celebrity'. 

Click to expand...

Souness would stick it out but Keane would walk by day 2 at the latest. Could be one of 10 reasons why he would walk but he would definitely be off early doors.


----------



## Jensen (Mar 2, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			In what sense? I still think he was the only man for the job once they'd decided to let Poch go. He's done ok up to a point, it is obviously going to be a struggle without any strikers though. I do question his decision to leave Toby and Jan out when we were already without Hugo though, that was a bit baffling. I said it before but after the City & Villa wins he had the best record other than Liverpool since his (Mourinho) appointment. Losing the next three games in all comps has tarnished that a bit, but he needs to find an answer to that no striker conundrum, and apparently he is unwilling to chuck Parrott in for whatever reason.
		
Click to expand...

You still haven't stated WHY you no longer watch Spurs.
In addition we do have a striker in Lucas Moura


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 2, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Does anyone think this Coronavirus is going to start having a big impact on life in the UK, or just fizzle out. Just wondering how it could effect the Premiership. Imagine in 2-3 weeks, all football matches are called off. When would they replay them? If they were to be played, would it be behind closed doors? Or, if they couldn't be played, would this season effectively be wiped out?
		
Click to expand...

Hope that does not happen, but if I get the virus am having a cheeky weekend in Liverpool 🧐🤔🤗😂


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 2, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Why do matches have to be called off? Play them behind closed doors. Theres no risk to the masses then

Click to expand...

City are already doing that with no fans there 😁


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 2, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Imagine Liverpool celebrating their Premier League win to an empty stadium
		
Click to expand...

City did.😂😂😂😂


----------



## fundy (Mar 2, 2020)

Arteta not a fan of the FA Cup then 

Arsenal XI: Martínez, Sokratis, Luiz, Marí, Saka, Torreira, Guendouzi, Nelson, Willock, Martinelli, Nketiah.


----------



## Wolf (Mar 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			Arteta not a fan of the FA Cup then 

Arsenal XI: Martínez, Sokratis, Luiz, Marí, Saka, Torreira, Guendouzi, Nelson, Willock, Martinelli, Nketiah.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair the opposition is Portsmouth we should not need a stronger side than that out and  our first XI weren't exactly great last Thursday so why not put this side out, only one I'm not sure on is Sokratis as RB.


----------



## fundy (Mar 2, 2020)

Wolf said:



			To be fair the opposition is Portsmouth we should not need a stronger side than that out and  our first XI weren't exactly great last Thursday so why not put this side out, only one I'm not sure on is Sokratis as RB.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure we are good enough to say "its only Portsmouth". Am actually pleased to see some of the youngsters playing, would like to see them play in the league too! Would rather see MN at right back and Holding instead of Luiz, would like to see more of Pepe and Ceballos who havent exactly played loads of football either

Good to know were all in for trying to finish 7th and get back in the Europa League tho!


----------



## Wolf (Mar 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			Not sure we are good enough to say "its only Portsmouth". Am actually pleased to see some of the youngsters playing, would like to see them play in the league too! Would rather see MN at right back and Holding instead of Luiz, would like to see more of Pepe and Ceballos who havent exactly played loads of football either

Good to know were all in for trying to finish 7th and get back in the Europa League tho!
		
Click to expand...

To be fair I didn't say we were good enough, but in theory that side should be to much for Portsmouth obviously proof is in the result.

Agreed rather see MN & Holding playing, I think he'll favour Ceballos in the league games over playing him against Portsmouth. As for the Pepe I'm still far from convinced, his decision making so far isn't great on when to release the ball and he's unbelievably predictable when he gets level with the 18 yard box. Hope Arteta can help him develop rest of the season and post season.


----------



## fundy (Mar 2, 2020)

Wolf said:



			To be fair I didn't say we were good enough, but in theory that side should be to much for Portsmouth obviously proof is in the result.

Agreed rather see MN & Holding playing, I think he'll favour Ceballos in the league games over playing him against Portsmouth. As for the Pepe I'm still far from convinced, his decision making so far isn't great on when to release the ball and he's unbelievably predictable when he gets level with the 18 yard box. Hope Arteta can help him develop rest of the season and post season.
		
Click to expand...


Think theres been some better signs from Pepe of late, and the best thing for him surely would be game time, wherever it may be. Def a better player on the counter attack than when sides sit back on him tho


----------



## Wolf (Mar 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			Think theres been some better signs from Pepe of late, and the best thing for him surely would be game time, wherever it may be. Def a better player on the counter attack than when sides sit back on him tho
		
Click to expand...

He certainly playing with more confidence under Arteta than he did Emery, but he still for me runs blindly when he should release earlier and get his head up. The fact he literally only uses his right foot for standing on isn't helping him and against a decent team he effectively gets played out of the game. He should study what Robben used to do at Bayern there was a one footed player that knew how to be effective.


----------



## fundy (Mar 2, 2020)

Wolf said:



			He certainly playing with more confidence under Arteta than he did Emery, but he still for me runs blindly when he should release earlier and get his head up. The fact he literally only uses his right foot for standing on isn't helping him and against a decent team he effectively gets played out of the game. He should study what Robben used to do at Bayern there was a one footed player that knew how to be effective.
		
Click to expand...

there will never be a better one footed player at Arsenal than Nutty Nige lol, he could barely stand on his right leg!!!!


----------



## Wolf (Mar 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			there will never be a better one footed player at Arsenal than Nutty Nige lol, he could barely stand on his right leg!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Legend in every sense of the word


----------



## fundy (Mar 2, 2020)

Luiz captain? thats a f****** joke right?

Edit: that dont look good for Torreira


----------



## fundy (Mar 2, 2020)

Good to see Rhys Nelson looking fit again


----------



## USER1999 (Mar 2, 2020)

Scoreline looking ok at the moment.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Mar 2, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Scoreline looking ok at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

But it is Arsenal. Stand by for a jumpy last 25 minutes


----------



## fundy (Mar 2, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Scoreline looking ok at the moment.
		
Click to expand...


result better than the performance but we'll take it 

fingers crossed Torreira not as bad as it looked


----------



## USER1999 (Mar 2, 2020)

Result is a win. Move along, nothing to see here.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Mar 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			result better than the performance but we'll take it 

fingers crossed Torreira not as bad as it looked
		
Click to expand...

Did look a bad one. How is the Arsenal injury list? Normally down to the bare bones about now


----------



## Wolf (Mar 2, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Did look a bad one. How is the Arsenal injury list? Normally down to the bare bones about now
		
Click to expand...

Have you seen our squad, 😂 we were down to bare bones in the first game of the season without injuries.


----------



## Dan2501 (Mar 3, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Have you seen our squad, 😂 we were down to bare bones in the first game of the season without injuries.
		
Click to expand...

Seems to be like that every season at Arsenal, and yet no-one ever does anything about it. Been short on defenders for years and still seems to be one in -> one out. Mental.


----------



## USER1999 (Mar 3, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Seems to be like that every season at Arsenal, and yet no-one ever does anything about it. Been short on defenders for years and still seems to be one in -> one out. Mental.
		
Click to expand...

CBs are Luiz, Holding, Chambers, Mari, Socratis, Mavropanos (out on loan), and Saliba (out on loan). Arsenal have plenty of defenders. The problem is more that they are all crap.


----------



## richart (Mar 3, 2020)

Am I allowed on this thread as we are playing a premier league team ?

Come on Urrrrzzzzz.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 3, 2020)

richart said:



			Am I allowed on this thread as we are playing a premier league team ?

Come on Urrrrzzzzz.
		
Click to expand...

24 hour pass?


----------



## richart (Mar 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			24 hour pass? 

Click to expand...

Through to the 6th round at least.


----------



## fundy (Mar 3, 2020)

Ben Foster one of the good guys


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1234545798534324225


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 3, 2020)

Good old proper cup tie that at the moment Chelsea deserve their lead - certainly full of attacking football and Chelsea GK having a worldie 


But how on Earth is Chris Kavanagh allowed to ref a football match at the top level - shocking


----------



## ColchesterFC (Mar 3, 2020)

James Milner must've learned to tackle like that when he was at Man City.


----------



## AmandaJR (Mar 3, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			James Milner must've learned to tackle like that when he was at Man City.
		
Click to expand...

Except now it's not cycnical rather than a necessity and "taking one for the team"!


----------



## ColchesterFC (Mar 3, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Except now it's not cycnical rather than a necessity and "taking one for the team"!
		
Click to expand...

It's a "tactical foul" to "break up the play".


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 3, 2020)

That young lad in the middle of the park looks pure quality - wouldnt think it was his debut , he is going to be one to watch


----------



## fundy (Mar 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That young lad in the middle of the park looks pure quality - wouldnt think it was his debut , he is going to be one to watch
		
Click to expand...

happy gilmore?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 3, 2020)

Newcastle are winning 3-0 at West Brom. My son has just texted, 'how bad is the Championship is we are 3 up'? 🤣🤣


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 3, 2020)

fundy said:



			happy gilmore?
		
Click to expand...

Yep - very composed on the ball , always seems to look to take the ball on the half turn so looking to go forward and then always seems to be protecting the back four. Quality


----------



## fundy (Mar 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep - very composed on the ball , always seems to look to take the ball on the half turn so looking to go forward and then always seems to be protecting the back four. Quality
		
Click to expand...


only been half watching but has seemed decent


----------



## JamesR (Mar 3, 2020)

fundy said:



			only been half watching but has seemed decent
		
Click to expand...

Man of the match 👍


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 3, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Man of the match 👍
		
Click to expand...

Yep Head and Shoulders above anyone else in the middle. Going to be hard to keep him out of the team


----------



## Fish (Mar 3, 2020)

💙


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That young lad in the middle of the park looks pure quality - wouldnt think it was his debut , he is going to be one to watch
		
Click to expand...

Better than that no hoper Fernandes I assume?


----------



## PieMan (Mar 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep Head and Shoulders above anyone else in the middle. Going to be hard to keep him out of the team
		
Click to expand...

Shame he's Scottish so wasted at international level.........😉😂😂😂


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Better than that no hoper Fernandes I assume?
		
Click to expand...


Seriously - give yourself a break , you’re starting to embaresses yourself.


----------



## JamesR (Mar 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep Head and Shoulders above anyone else in the middle. Going to be hard to keep him out of the team
		
Click to expand...

So it is


----------



## ColchesterFC (Mar 3, 2020)

PieMan said:



			Shame he's Scottish so wasted at international level.........😉😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Has he got an English grandmother?


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seriously - give yourself a break , you’re starting to embaresses yourself.
		
Click to expand...

Hmm. English is tough, don’t be hard on yourself. But seriously, are you ready to admit you were wrong about Fernandes because he was a United player or would you rather continue to look ignorant?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 3, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			It's a "tactical foul" to "break up the play".
		
Click to expand...

It’s an assault and for me a red. Imo of course.


----------



## Swingalot (Mar 3, 2020)

PieMan said:



			Shame he's Scottish so wasted at international level.........😉😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Just heard him interviewed, gutted to hear with a Scottish accent! They have a diamond player there, unless we can find some English blood in the family!


----------



## JamesR (Mar 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Hmm. English is tough, don’t be hard on yourself. But seriously, are you ready to admit you were wrong about Fernandes because he was a United player or would you rather continue to look ignorant?
		
Click to expand...

what has Fernandes actually achieved?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 3, 2020)

We have nobody in midfield who can boss the game.
Can’t give a good team a goal start.
But Barkley started in his own half and nobody even touched him, Fabiano running in treacle couldn’t catch him??
They mixed it up with long balls to Giroud who played well imo . Rudiger was immense.
But we were wanting again, chances but poor finishing.
Could have been much worse as Chelsea wasted some chances as well.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 3, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			James Milner must've learned to tackle like that when he was at Man City.
		
Click to expand...

Shame the ref booked Fabinho unfairly or Barkley would’ve had one too.


----------



## JamesR (Mar 3, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			We have nobody in midfield who can boss the game.
Can’t give a good team a goal start.
But Barkley started in his own half and nobody even touched him, Fabiano running in treacle couldn’t catch him??
They mixed it up with long balls to Giroud who played well imo . Rudiger was immense.
But we were wanting again, chances but poor finishing.
Could have been much worse as Chelsea wasted some chances as well.
		
Click to expand...

Are you missing Henderson, is he the difference between now and before?


----------



## Captainron (Mar 3, 2020)

I must admit that I would like to see red cards for the tackle that Milner put in. It’s a pure attempt to break the play. I doubt that the FA would do that but maybe make yellow cards like rugby or hockey where you have to leave the field for a period of time and put your team under extra pressure.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 3, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			We have nobody in midfield who can boss the game.
Can’t give a good team a goal start.
But Barkley started in his own half and nobody even touched him, *Fabiano running in treacle couldn’t catch him?*?
They mixed it up with long balls to Giroud who played well imo . Rudiger was immense.
But we were wanting again, chances but poor finishing.
Could have been much worse as Chelsea wasted some chances as well.
		
Click to expand...

He was on a yellow, if he’s not Barkley gets brought down.


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 3, 2020)

JamesR said:



			what has Fernandes actually achieved?
		
Click to expand...

Playing well.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 3, 2020)

Captainron said:



*I must admit that I would like to see red cards for the tackle that Milner put in. It’s a pure attempt to break the play.* I doubt that the FA would do that but maybe make yellow cards like rugby or hockey where you have to leave the field for a period of time and put your team under extra pressure.
		
Click to expand...

Theres a fine line and I think Milner was just on the right side so to speak.

The ones like the Choudhury assault on Salah etc are the red cards for sure.


----------



## Captainron (Mar 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Theres a fine line and I think Milner was just on the right side so to speak.

The ones like the Choudhury assault on Salah etc are the red cards for sure.
		
Click to expand...

It wasn’t malicious so I get what you’re saying but it is cheating to stop the other team. 
10 minutes in the bin for a yellow would make players think twice about that.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 3, 2020)

I asked the question when Ramos brought down Jesus when clean through is it an acceptable part of the game, professional fouls. It seems it now is.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 3, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I asked the question when Ramos brought down Jesus when clean through is it an acceptable part of the game, professional fouls. It seems it now is.
		
Click to expand...

?!

Always been an “acceptable” part of the game - people have been committing those type of deliberate fouls for decades - nothing has changed.


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 3, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I asked the question when Ramos brought down Jesus when clean through is it an acceptable part of the game, professional fouls. It seems it now is.
		
Click to expand...

I know you’ll pretend not to see this but Ramos was sent off. Stop trying the poor poor pitiful me routine with City once again.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 3, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I asked the question when Ramos brought down Jesus when clean through is it an acceptable part of the game, professional fouls. It seems it now is.
		
Click to expand...

City wouldnt win another trophy if tactical fouling wasn’t allowed 😀😀


----------



## ColchesterFC (Mar 3, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			It’s an assault and for me a red. Imo of course.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree with you. It's a professional foul and should be a straight red. No attempt to play the ball and potentially endangering the safety of an opponent. Imo of course.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 3, 2020)

Captainron said:



			It wasn’t malicious so I get what you’re saying but it is cheating to stop the other team.
*10 minutes in the bin for a yellow would make players think twice about that*.
		
Click to expand...



Stick to cricket and rugby yer big stiff pleb 😉


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			City wouldnt win another trophy if tactical fouling wasn’t allowed 😀😀
		
Click to expand...

Nah we would just buy one.😁


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			He was on a yellow, if he’s not Barkley gets brought down.
		
Click to expand...

Having a yellow card dosnt make him slow.
If he can’t catch Barkley ???
Wasn’t really him he was out of position as we pushed on 
One of the defenders needed to challenge him even just to break his stride so one of the players running back could catch him. he ran from 10 yds in his own half and nobody fronted him up .
But your correct about the ref I thought he was really poor just basic things.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Mar 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Shame the ref booked Fabinho unfairly or Barkley would’ve had one too.
		
Click to expand...

Happy to admit that I missed that. The joys of watching with a 10 year old who likes to talk all the way through the match.


----------



## Captainron (Mar 3, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Nah we would just buy one.😁
		
Click to expand...

Best reply on this entire thread


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 3, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Are you missing Henderson, is he the difference between now and before?
		
Click to expand...

He’s only one player.
We have just been poor lately don’t know why .
Just a bad run.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 3, 2020)

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...kCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

Odd time for this to be mentioned


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 3, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Totally agree with you. It's a professional foul and should be a straight red. No attempt to play the ball and potentially endangering the safety of an opponent. Imo of course.
		
Click to expand...


I think it must come down to the level of force in the tackle and how far from the goal - pulling someone back as they are clear on the halfway is also a professional foul - can you see that as a red. Yep Milner brought him down , it’s a foul and a yellow card but I can’t see it ever being more than that


----------



## ColchesterFC (Mar 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Theres a fine line and I think Milner was just on the right side so to speak.

The ones like the Choudhury assault on Salah etc are the red cards for sure.
		
Click to expand...

Careful Stu, you'll be accused of having red specs on. Challenge by Liverpool player - OK. Challenge against a Liverpool player - should be a red card.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 3, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I asked the question when Ramos brought down Jesus when clean through is it an acceptable part of the game, professional fouls. It seems it now is.
		
Click to expand...

No it isn’t!


----------



## ColchesterFC (Mar 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think it must come down to the level of force in the tackle and how far from the goal - pulling someone back as they are clear on the halfway is also a professional foul - can you see that as a red. Yep Milner brought him down , it’s a foul and a yellow card but I can’t see it ever being more than that
		
Click to expand...

The big difference for me is that pulling a player back doesn't potentially endanger them. Taking them out like Milner did tonight, Son did to Gomes or Choudhury did to Salah does potentially endanger the opponent.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 3, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Careful Stu, you'll be accused of having red specs on. Challenge by Liverpool player - OK. Challenge against a Liverpool player - should be a red card. 

Click to expand...

it wouldn’t be wrong to assume 😂😂

On a serious note I only mentioned the Salah one because I saw it and still can’t believe it was only a yellow. I’m sure there’s plenty more aswell but I can’t think of them off the top of my head.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 3, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			The big difference for me is that pulling a player back doesn't potentially endanger them. Taking them out like Milner did tonight, Son did to Gomes or Choudhury did to Salah does potentially endanger the opponent.
		
Click to expand...

It’s going to be very hard to judge on “potential” endangering though because even the smallest of trips could endanger a player - understand what you’re saying but think it’s hard to quantify- think the rule at the moment works well


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 3, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Nah we would just buy one.😁
		
Click to expand...

Havnt you spent enough! FFP?


----------



## ColchesterFC (Mar 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s going to be very hard to judge on “potential” endangering though because even the smallest of trips could endanger a player - understand what you’re saying but think it’s hard to quantify- think the rule at the moment works well
		
Click to expand...

I just think that there's a difference between pulling an opponent's shirt to stop them and taking out both their legs and bringing them down. I'm happy to admit that it would require different rules for the same offence - "no attempt to play the ball" - but we already have that for hand ball.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 3, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			The big difference for me is that pulling a player back doesn't potentially endanger them. Taking them out like Milner did tonight, Son did to Gomes or Choudhury did to Salah does potentially endanger the opponent.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I agree.
you can be sent off for scoring two goals and taking your shirt off afterwards.
But hack somebody down NO attempt for the ball and it’s yellow.
If you tackle someone from behind actually going for the ball you can see red.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 3, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			No it isn’t!
		
Click to expand...

when I asked the question the other week, no one said it Isn’t.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 3, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Havnt you spent enough! FFP?
		
Click to expand...

according to the fans “ City’s going down with a billion in the bank “. So maybe not 😁


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 3, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			The big difference for me is that pulling a player back doesn't potentially endanger them. Taking them out like Milner did tonight, Son did to Gomes or Choudhury did to Salah does potentially endanger the opponent.
		
Click to expand...

Totaly agree with you, however some on here were saying even accidental fouls can injure players so do you ban tackling altogether. For me if there is no attempt to play the ball, players need to go in sin bins. If it is the last defender, you get to pic the best shower having been sent off.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 3, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			No it isn’t!
		
Click to expand...

It may not be a part of the game you like or accept, but as said previously, it’s been in the game for decades upon decades and at many levels (including the highest) of the game it’s an acceptable practise and the offence is covered by Law 12.


----------



## Junior (Mar 4, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			City *and Pep* wouldnt win another trophy if tactical fouling wasn’t allowed 😀😀
		
Click to expand...

Fixed that for you bud.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 4, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			when I asked the question the other week, no one said it Isn’t.
		
Click to expand...

I must have missed that!
I have been very consistent that it’s “unprofessional “


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 4, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It may not be a part of the game you like or accept, but as said previously, it’s been in the game for decades upon decades and at many levels (including the highest) of the game it’s an acceptable practise and the offence is covered by Law 12.
		
Click to expand...

So has the offside rule they changed that 
So has the handball rule they changed that.
You could charge the keeper in the net they changed that  etc etc.
Now you can see red for excessive force in a challenge you are going for the ball.
But hack him down from behind NO attempt to play the ball??? Yellow.
Rules evolve just seems this one dosnt.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			So has the offside rule they changed that
So has the handball rule they changed that.
You could charge the keeper in the net they changed that  etc etc.
Now you can see red for excessive force in a challenge you are going for the ball.
But hack him down from behind NO attempt to play the ball??? Yellow.
Rules evolve just seems this one dosnt.
		
Click to expand...

Probably because all situations are already covered, ie, “professional” foul, a “accidental” trip as a player runs through and a blatant body check or shirt pull can all be classified as a “professional” foul and all can be harmless, they have the same intent as a player hacking an opposition player down and breaking their leg.

All the above could be classed as a “professional” foul, but 3 are dealt with by a Yellow Card the other a Red Card.

Or are you suggesting all “professional” fouls, regardless of were they happen on the field should be a Red Card?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 4, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Probably because all situations are already covered, ie, “professional” foul, a “accidental” trip as a player runs through and a blatant body check or shirt pull can all be classified as a “professional” foul and all can be harmless, they have the same intent as a player hacking an opposition player down and breaking their leg.

All the above could be classed as a “professional” foul, but 3 are dealt with by a Yellow Card the other a Red Card.

Or are you suggesting all “professional” fouls, regardless of were they happen on the field should be a Red Card?
		
Click to expand...

Not all but the Milner one ,Sons one on Gomez yes.
If you hack someone down from behind no attempt for the ball that’s a red imo.
It’s already treated differently depending if your the last defender.
If Milner had done that and he was the last man it’s a different card.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 4, 2020)

Should Milner have had a red card, under the current rules of the game? Probably not, as others have already said, that has just become part and parcel of football, where yellow is automatic (although maybe his specific challenge was borderline?)

However, if the question is "Should the Rules be changed to make Milner's type challenge automatic red?". Personally, I feel they should. Not sure how they would be worded exactly, because I don't think a tug on the shirt should be an automatic red (unless they are clean through on goal), and at other times there may be a lazy half attempt to win the ball, and a player gets no where near it. I don't think that should be red either, because you could end up stopping players from actually trying to tackle at all. And, I don't think anyone wants that. Of course, there will then be a subjective issue in the middle, where the question is did a player hack another player down, or make a genuine attempt to win ball. But, there will always be subjectivity I guess, no matter where you draw the line.

But, when a player slides in, where it is pretty obvious that their only intention was to bring down the player, then I personally wouldn't complain if an automatic red card was issued. A sin bin might be another idea, as others suggested. Although, these sorts of challenges often happen in the last part of the game when players are getting desperate, so a sin bin may not be a massive deterrent (unless a ban afterwards also happens).

If the rule was changed, then I would agree that the Son challenge on Gomes could warrant a red card (but not under the current rules, I don't believe)

I watched the Leicester game last weekend. Barnes was running through towards goal. Not sure who it was, but an opponent made an absolutely barbaric attempt to hack him down from behind (it was high and from behind). However, he completely missed the player, thus no action was taken. Had he hit him, the referee could have absolutely shown him red (the commentators gasped when the challenge came in). What surprised me a little was, there was no suggestion that VAR were even looking at it. So, I'm not sure if "red card type" challenges are generally only an offence if they make contact with the opposition, and not an offence if you miss. But, that is a separate issue really.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 4, 2020)

Maybe Milner can't shake off the professional foul coaching learned at City?

Nature vs nurture, learned behaviour etc.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 4, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Should Milner have had a red card, under the current rules of the game? Probably not, as others have already said, that has just become part and parcel of football, where yellow is automatic (although maybe his specific challenge was borderline?)

However, if the question is "Should the Rules be changed to make Milner's type challenge automatic red?". Personally, I feel they should. Not sure how they would be worded exactly, because I don't think a tug on the shirt should be an automatic red (unless they are clean through on goal), and at other times there may be a lazy half attempt to win the ball, and a player gets no where near it. I don't think that should be red either, because you could end up stopping players from actually trying to tackle at all. And, I don't think anyone wants that. Of course, there will then be a subjective issue in the middle, where the question is did a player hack another player down, or make a genuine attempt to win ball. But, there will always be subjectivity I guess, no matter where you draw the line.

But, when a player slides in, where it is pretty obvious that their only intention was to bring down the player, then I personally wouldn't complain if an automatic red card was issued. A sin bin might be another idea, as others suggested. Although, these sorts of challenges often happen in the last part of the game when players are getting desperate, so a sin bin may not be a massive deterrent (unless a ban afterwards also happens).

If the rule was changed, then I would agree that the Son challenge on Gomes could warrant a red card (but not under the current rules, I don't believe)

I watched the Leicester game last weekend. Barnes was running through towards goal. Not sure who it was, but an opponent made an absolutely barbaric attempt to hack him down from behind (it was high and from behind). However, he completely missed the player, thus no action was taken. Had he hit him, the referee could have absolutely shown him red (the commentators gasped when the challenge came in). What surprised me a little was, there was no suggestion that VAR were even looking at it. So, I'm not sure if "red card type" challenges are generally only an offence if they make contact with the opposition, and not an offence if you miss. But, that is a separate issue really.
		
Click to expand...

I agree with most of what you say except the last bit !
If a player threw a punch but missed is that still a red.
I just don’t like players hacking them down from behind.
Endangering the safety of an opponent should be red .
But ultimately it would be up to the ref to decide. 
I seen the one you cite and imo that’s still a red it was disgusting from a so called Professional who wasn’t even quick enough to foul him.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 4, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Maybe Milner can't shake off the professional foul coaching learned at City?

Nature vs nurture, learned behaviour etc. 

Click to expand...

He’s been with us long enough , can’t blame a previous life for that.
It divides opinion I know .but I just hate it.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 4, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I agree with most of what you say except the last bit !
If a player threw a punch but missed is that still a red.
I just don’t like players hacking them down from behind.
Endangering the safety of an opponent should be red .
But ultimately it would be up to the ref to decide.
I seen the one you cite and imo that’s still a red it was disgusting from a so called Professional who wasn’t even quick enough to foul him.
		
Click to expand...

I think we are in agreement with the last bit? I think, from what you say, you think it should have been a red card, even though he missed him. I also agree it should have been considered. I also believe (like you I think), if a player throws a punch and misses, it is still a red.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not all but the Milner one ,Sons one on Gomez yes.
*If you hack someone down from behind no attempt for the ball that’s a red imo.*
It’s already treated differently depending if your the last defender.
If Milner had done that and he was the last man it’s a different card.
		
Click to expand...

It can be a Red for serious foul play or violent conduct, that’s up to the Ref to decide.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 4, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			He’s been with us long enough , can’t blame a previous life for that.
It divides opinion I know .but I just hate it.
		
Click to expand...

I was joking, lar.


----------



## fundy (Mar 4, 2020)

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=503698430218412



I know we all have them, heres Liverpools lol


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 4, 2020)

fundy said:






__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=503698430218412



I know we all have them, heres Liverpools lol
		
Click to expand...

Hmmm. 

Think it's a troll tbh. Refereeing to "their" fixture list. Surely most (all) fans would say "our"? 

That being said. I agree they all have em.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 4, 2020)

fundy said:






__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=503698430218412



I know we all have them, heres Liverpools lol
		
Click to expand...

He was very distressed that they hadn't brought in another centre back, and that they need to bring in another top class striker? Ironically, Liverpool have had one of the strongest defences in world football this year, and their attacking line up is pretty decent. Sure, it's always nice to look for improvements in those areas, but I'd have thought a he'd have more of a desire to strengthen in midfield if anything.

I guess when he wakes up in the morning, it must be such an ordeal for this guy to decide what order he'll brush his teeth, eat breakfast, get dressed, etc before he goes to work, and goodness knows how he'd react if he ran out of milk.


----------



## Dan2501 (Mar 4, 2020)

They really do air some toss on Talksport.


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 4, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			They really do air some toss on Talksport.
		
Click to expand...

Apart from live football is there ANY content that isn't toss?


----------



## Bazzatron (Mar 4, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			They really do air some toss on Talksport.
		
Click to expand...

Talking up Billy Gilmour today, he's played 3 games. 

Also, Darren Gough is thick as mince.


----------



## Wolf (Mar 4, 2020)

Was the person who designed the kit City are wearing colourblind, jesus think I need sunglasses on.


----------



## fundy (Mar 4, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Talking up Billy Gilmour today, he's played 3 games. 

Also, Darren Gough is thick as mince.
		
Click to expand...


what is it they say about never meet your idols....... (and i dont mean happy gilmore   )


----------



## Slime (Mar 4, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Apart from live football is there ANY content that isn't toss?
		
Click to expand...

Yes.


----------



## Rlburnside (Mar 4, 2020)

Special one my arse, this is painful to watch so negative yet again


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 4, 2020)

Cup draw

Sheff Utd v arsenal
newcastle v Man City
spuds or Norwich v derby or Man Utd 
leicester v Chelsea


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 4, 2020)

Another walk over for Citeh 🤭


----------



## fundy (Mar 4, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Another walk over for Citeh 🤭
		
Click to expand...

no gags about Everton having a weekend off this round


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 4, 2020)

fundy said:



			no gags about Liverpool having a weekend off this round 

Click to expand...

Sorted for you Fundy 👍


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 4, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Another walk over for Citeh 🤭
		
Click to expand...

see post 11058 😁


----------



## fundy (Mar 4, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Cup draw

Sheff Utd v arsenal
newcastle v Man City
Norwich v derby or Man Utd 
leicester v Chelsea
		
Click to expand...


sorted for you Tashy


----------



## Wolf (Mar 4, 2020)

Terrible penalties from Spurs, but well played by Krul.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 4, 2020)

fundy said:



			no gags about Everton having a weekend off this round 

Click to expand...

Haha I only remembered 15 mins before our game last night😂😂 these FA Cup midweek rounds dont have the same ring to it though 😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 4, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			see post 11058 😁
		
Click to expand...

Piss off Tashy, whoever wins this years FA Cup should have a * against their name. It's an unfair competition this year..... VAR at some grounds and not at others 😉


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2020)

Videos all over twitter of Eric Dier climbing in to the stands at Spurs and getting in to a spat with a Spurs fan.

Differing stories whether he was defending his brother who was involved in a fracas or it was a fan using racist language towards fernandes.


----------



## Wolf (Mar 4, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Videos all over twitter of Eric Dier climbing in to the stands at Spurs and getting in to a spat with a Spurs fan.

Differing stories whether he was defending his brother who was involved in a fracas or it was a fan using racist language towards fernandes.
		
Click to expand...

I've heard it was the latter through my social media feeds, be interested in hearing his side of it.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 4, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Videos all over twitter of Eric Dier climbing in to the stands at Spurs and getting in to a spat with a Spurs fan.

Differing stories whether he was defending his brother who was involved in a fracas or it was a fan using racist language towards fernandes.
		
Click to expand...

If only hed shown the same fight on the pitch that he did getting into the stand in the 120mins prior to it Spurs might've went through.....

I love how quick the racist card came out on SM. Dangerous.


----------



## Wolf (Mar 4, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			If only hed shown the same fight on the pitch that he did getting into the stand in the 120mins prior to it Spurs might've went through.....

I love how quick the racist card came out on SM. Dangerous.
		
Click to expand...

Its coming via fans in the ground who have videoed it. You will never stop this happening with instant SM access via mobile, soon as anything happens now its viral.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			If only hed shown the same fight on the pitch that he did getting into the stand in the 120mins prior to it Spurs might've went through.....

I love how quick the racist card came out on SM. Dangerous.
		
Click to expand...

Only seen the 2 stories and Jose sort of mentioned it in his press conference, basically said players cannot go in to the crowd, but can understand someone doing it when they hear things and see family involved.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 4, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Its coming via fans in the ground who have videoed it. You will never stop this happening with instant SM access via mobile, soon as anything happens now its viral.
		
Click to expand...

👍my last point was more about how quickly people on SM speculate on the cause of the altercation and how its dangerous to be speculating/accusing racism without being certain.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			👍my last point was more about how quickly people on SM speculate on the cause of the altercation and how its dangerous to be speculating/accusing racism without being certain.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, the videos I have seen are close up and the people posting them saying it was racist language.

One video he is dragging his brother away escorted by stewards.


----------



## Wolf (Mar 4, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			👍my last point was more about how quickly people on SM speculate on the cause of the altercation and how its dangerous to be speculating/accusing racism without being certain.
		
Click to expand...

Paul just beat me to it, the videos I've seen are literally less that 6 feet away with close ups of Dier so I don't see that as speculation. Maybe had there been no evidence footage and it was just someone at home seeing it and posting accusations then that is possibly dangerous. But actual footage from their own fans right next to it in these instances isn't dangerous its actually helpful to the club and authorities to press charges and carry out relevant sanctions.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 4, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			To be fair, the videos I have seen are close up and the people posting them saying it was racist language.

One video he is dragging his brother away escorted by stewards.
		
Click to expand...

I've seen 2 vids.

1 is quite a bit away and theyre muttering stuff  and the other one is a close up about 2ft away but I cant make out that snide cockney accent.😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 4, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Paul just beat me to it, the videos I've seen are literally less that 6 feet away with close ups of Dier so I don't see that as speculation. Maybe had there been no evidence footage and it was just someone at home seeing it and posting accusations then that is possibly dangerous. But actual footage from their own fans right next to it in these instances isn't dangerous its actually helpful to the club and authorities to press charges and carry out relevant sanctions.
		
Click to expand...

Obviously the video footage isnt dangerous, it's the people on the likes of Twatter who are commenting on it who arent even there.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 4, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Obviously the video footage isnt dangerous, it's the people on the likes of Twatter who are commenting on it who arent even there.
		
Click to expand...

Not an issue, I go by the name Stu_C on twitter.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 4, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Not an issue, I go by the name Stu_C on twitter. 

Click to expand...

Is he the source if the crap you post on here norris?


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			no gags about Spurs having a weekend off this round 

Click to expand...

Sorted for you Fundy 😁


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 5, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Terrible penalties from Spurs, but well played by Krul.
		
Click to expand...

I just saw the last one that was saved on breakfast TV. I have to say I cheered inwardly as the taker did one of those irritating stuttering runs. 

On a side note, pleased for Krul. Very popular up here from his time at Newcastle,  suffered a few injuries that looked to damage his career but he is now back playing PL football and playing well. Based on comments from people who came across him he is another one of the good guys.


----------



## Slime (Mar 5, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I just saw the last one that was saved on breakfast TV. I have to say I cheered inwardly as the taker did one of those irritating stuttering runs.

On a side note, pleased for Krul. Very popular up here from his time at Newcastle,  suffered a few injuries that looked to damage his career but he is now back playing PL football and playing well. Based on comments from people who came across him he is another one of the good guys.
		
Click to expand...

Spurs have bought the wrong Fernandes.


----------



## pendodave (Mar 5, 2020)

(Almost) nothing makes me happier than watching spurs lose, but it still drives me mad when nothing is done about keepers coming off their line for pens.
We have great goals disallowed for a mm here or there where no real advantage is gained, yet pens are saved when even my naked eye can discern a movement of a couple of feet which yields a huge advantage. The officiating of the game is so far gone it's not even funny.


----------



## Wolf (Mar 5, 2020)

pendodave said:



			(Almost) nothing makes me happier than watching spurs lose, but it still drives me mad when nothing is done about keepers coming off their line for pens.
We have great goals disallowed for a mm here or there where no real advantage is gained, yet pens are saved when even my naked eye can discern a movement of a couple of feet which yields a huge advantage. The officiating of the game is so far gone it's not even funny.
		
Click to expand...

Whilst all that you've written is factually true, can we focus on the positives of your post and Spurs getting beat 😂


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 5, 2020)

pendodave said:



			(Almost) nothing makes me happier than watching spurs lose, but it still drives me mad when nothing is done about keepers coming off their line for pens.
We have great goals disallowed for a mm here or there where no real advantage is gained, yet pens are saved when even my naked eye can discern a movement of a couple of feet which yields a huge advantage. The officiating of the game is so far gone it's not even funny.
		
Click to expand...

The linesman has one job to do in a penalty, as far as I am aware. Make sure the keeper doesn't come off their line. So, it's hard to understand why this is never penalised. Either linesman have been told to do this with their eyes closed, or they've been told not to bother flagging if keepers come off their line "a little bit". But yeah, I don't understand this law at all. As far as I remember, back at the womens World Cup, if a goalkeeper came a mm off their line and saved it, the penalty had to be retaken (to be fair, that too had a lot of criticism from fans). So, I guess we are back to allowing some subjective tolerance?


----------



## pendodave (Mar 5, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			So, I guess we are back to allowing some subjective tolerance?
		
Click to expand...

Yep. This is what's so crazy. There is absolutely no tolerance anywhere else, yet in this game changing facet of the laws, anything goes. 
Madness.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 5, 2020)

pendodave said:



			Yep. This is what's so crazy. There is absolutely no tolerance anywhere else, yet in this game changing facet of the laws, anything goes.
Madness.
		
Click to expand...

To be honest, are the rules of football the same all over the world. Yes, the general rules are the same, but I'm pretty sure how they are implemented is completely different.

For example, we now know that, if a ball accidentally hits a players arm/hand (even the most minor of accidental touches that seemingly has no influence on where the ball would ultimately end up) in the Premier League, the referee could see it but, rightly, would never give a free kick for handball. In most cases, that will be the end of the matter. But, if the team end up scoring, VAR automatically classes that as handball and goal ruled out. So, basically, it will only ever be classed as handball IF that players team scores a goal, but in no other circumstances.

So, that happens in the Premier League (and I presume other English competitions). However, if exactly the same thing happened in the Champions League, Europa League, International match, etc, would the exact same procedure apply? Or, is this solely the FA deciding on their own that that is their interpretation of it, rather than FIFA or UEFA?

Perhaps it is the same with judging keepers being on their lines, and goodness knows what else. Like their own Local Rules


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 5, 2020)

The Handball Rule


Swango1980 said:



			To be honest, are the rules of football the same all over the world. Yes, the general rules are the same, but I'm pretty sure how they are implemented is completely different.

For example, we now know that, if a ball accidentally hits a players arm/hand (even the most minor of accidental touches that seemingly has no influence on where the ball would ultimately end up) in the Premier League, the referee could see it but, rightly, would never give a free kick for handball. In most cases, that will be the end of the matter. But, if the team end up scoring, VAR automatically classes that as handball and goal ruled out. So, basically, it will only ever be classed as handball IF that players team scores a goal, but in no other circumstances.

So, that happens in the Premier League (and I presume other English competitions). However, if exactly the same thing happened in the Champions League, Europa League, International match, etc, would the exact same procedure apply? Or, is this solely the FA deciding on their own that that is their interpretation of it, rather than FIFA or UEFA?

Perhaps it is the same with judging keepers being on their lines, and goodness knows what else. Like their own Local Rules
		
Click to expand...

The Handball Rule changes were brought in by the IFAB, the PL complies with them.

Obviously not all games are covered by VAR and some incidents maybe missed by Officials in those games.

http://static-3eb8.kxcdn.com/documents/786/111531_110319_IFAB_LoG_at_a_Glance.pdf


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 5, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The Handball Rule

The Handball Rule changes were brought in by the IFAB, the PL complies with them.

Obviously not all games are covered by VAR and some incidents maybe missed by Officials in those games.

http://static-3eb8.kxcdn.com/documents/786/111531_110319_IFAB_LoG_at_a_Glance.pdf

Click to expand...

Cheers

It is just that, to my memory, I don't remember any European games having a goal ruled out by a minor accidental handball. Perhaps it has just been a coincidence that it has not arisen in any game I have watched, although it seems fairly regular in Premier League.


----------



## USER1999 (Mar 5, 2020)

If Covid 19 kicks in, and the remaining Premiership games are cancelled.....

Can an asterisk be put against Liverpools name?


----------



## fundy (Mar 5, 2020)

Torreira got a fractured ankle


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 5, 2020)

Slime said:



			Spurs have bought the wrong Fernandes.  

Click to expand...

I'm so glad we got our pants pulled down and he picked spurs over us.. he may turn out to be class but we need players who can perform now not in 2 seasons


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 5, 2020)

Oh right, has Gedson been branded a flop already then? I haven't even seen him play yet, he's only been here 5 minutes.


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 5, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Oh right, has Gedson been branded a flop already then? I haven't even seen him play yet, he's only been here 5 minutes.
		
Click to expand...

not saying he is a flop.. he just isnt ready this minute for the premier league

if we had loaned him what would be the point? he wouldnt be ready for a relegation battle

instead we loaned soucek who is more developed and fitted straight into our squad

however he also fitted into standard west ham

injured after 3 games


----------



## 4LEX (Mar 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			👍my last point was more about how quickly people on SM speculate on the cause of the altercation and how its dangerous to be speculating/accusing racism without being certain.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree on this. Rudiger accused Spurs fans of racism a few months back. It was investigated and no evidence offered yet he still had the cheek to say he was right. The media were too scared to accuse him of making false/incorrect allegations up, so it was brushed under the carpet. As a result the damage was done to Spurs fans and then when they booed him the other week in response, he had a pathetic moan and they got more bad publicity. Nothing was said about how he might've been mistaken, acted irresponsibly and accused without evidence.

I'm all for players and fans standing upto to racism but we're seeing a dangerous culture developing where the race card is played for any sort of thing players/fans don't like. Which devalues genuine issues of racism in society.


----------



## 4LEX (Mar 5, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			according to the fans “ City’s going down with a billion in the bank “. So maybe not 😁
		
Click to expand...

I don't get this song. I know United used to sing it when you were struggling in 2008 but why bring it back about yourselves? You're in no danger of relegation and don't have a billion in the bank......more like 800 billion in a portfolio of the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 5, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Totally agree on this. Rudiger accused Spurs fans of racism a few months back. It was investigated and no evidence offered yet he still had the cheek to say he was right. The media were too scared to accuse him of making false/incorrect allegations up, so it was brushed under the carpet. As a result the damage was done to Spurs fans and then when they booed him the other week in response, he had a pathetic moan and they got more bad publicity. Nothing was said about how he might've been mistaken, acted irresponsibly and accused without evidence.

I'm all for players and fans standing upto to racism but we're seeing a dangerous culture developing where the race card is played for any sort of thing players/fans don't like. Which devalues genuine issues of racism in society.
		
Click to expand...

Just because there was no evidence to 100% back him up, are you saying that there was evidence to say he was lying?


----------



## 4LEX (Mar 5, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Just because there was no evidence to 100% back him up, are you saying that there was evidence to say he was lying?
		
Click to expand...

It's not about being 100%, there wasn't even a single bit of evidence. I'm saying people should be more careful how they throw around accusations of racism.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 5, 2020)

4LEX said:



			It's not about being 100%, there wasn't even a single bit of evidence. I'm saying people should be more careful how they throw around accusations of racism.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, but what I mean is. Rudiger may well have experienced racism. How can you tell a player to stay quiet, unless they can be sure there is evidence to back them up? Is that not like telling somebody not to report an assault unless they can absolutely prove it? The media were probably not too "scared" to accuse him of making false allegations, unless you say there is evidence that he WAS making false allegations. You can't on one hand accuse him of making these allegations without any evidence, and then accuse the media of not calling him out on it even though they have no evidence he was incorrect.

The truth could well be that, he was being truthful, but there just didn't happen to be enough evidence to find anybody guilty of anything?

Btw, I'd agree with your general point. In my opinion, I do believe that the "race card" is played by some very easily when certain individuals / groups may not be getting beneficial treatment. I'm all for looking into racism, but it becomes so frustrating when white people are accused of being racist, casual racist or white privileged, when many of these white people could be the nicest people you would ever meet. It's not just race. You gently try and debate that, very possibly, it isn't fair on biological females if men-female transgender people are allowed to compete against them, you are automatically classed as transphobic by some, argument over. Religion, Sexuality, Gender, etc., all the same.

So, I really do understand your point. I don't know the Rudiger case, your post only brought it to my attention. But, I just think it is best not to point the finger at anyone unless we have good reason to think that he was just making it up. Personally, I'd doubt a person in a high profile position would just make something up like that, but of course there may still be a very small chance he did, or was mistaken, but probably only very small.


----------



## Dan2501 (Mar 5, 2020)

Got level 1 coaching qualifications? Keep an eye out for jobs in Portugal 

https://www.tugascout.com/news/2020/3/5/nwim8zqt89uuu25cta5izgshzagv1s


----------



## sunshine (Mar 5, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Cheers

It is just that, to my memory, I don't remember any European games having a goal ruled out by a minor accidental handball. Perhaps it has just been a coincidence that it has not arisen in any game I have watched, although it seems fairly regular in Premier League.
		
Click to expand...

Sissoko in the champions league last season?


----------



## sunshine (Mar 5, 2020)

What happened to the 6 second rule for goalkeepers? Refs seem to have completely forgotten / chosen to ignore this rule. 

In the Championship I've seen keepers regularly holding on to the ball for 12+ seconds.


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 5, 2020)

sunshine said:



			What happened to the 6 second rule for goalkeepers? Refs seem to have completely forgotten / chosen to ignore this rule.

In the Championship I've seen keepers regularly holding on to the ball for 12+ seconds.
		
Click to expand...

We discussed that in here once before. I was surprised to learn the law does still exists, but referees always show leniency on it. 

http://www.goalkeeperhq.com/dont-abuse-the-leniency-of-the-6-second-rule/ 

_"Almost all associations agree that the rule was not meant to be strictly reinforced, and as long as the referee deems that the goalkeeper is making a sincere effort to release the ball, there is no need to strictly enforce the 6 second rule."  _I'm not sure where they got that information from, but it does reflect what we usually see in football.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 5, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			We discussed that in here once before. I was surprised to learn the law does still exists, but referees always show leniency on it.

http://www.goalkeeperhq.com/dont-abuse-the-leniency-of-the-6-second-rule/

_"Almost all associations agree that the rule was not meant to be strictly reinforced, and as long as the referee deems that the goalkeeper is making a sincere effort to release the ball, there is no need to strictly enforce the 6 second rule."  _I'm not sure where they got that information from, but it does reflect what we usually see in football.
		
Click to expand...

Is this how some members view the 3-minute rule when searching for their golf ball?


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 5, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Is this how some members view the 3-minute rule when searching for their golf ball?
		
Click to expand...

What do you mean _some_? Seems exactly the same as that rule to me - more advisory than an actual rule, no?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 5, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			What do you mean _some_? Seems exactly the same as that rule to me - more advisory than an actual rule, no? 

Click to expand...

Are you feeling mischievous?


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 5, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			If Covid 19 kicks in, and the remaining Premiership games are cancelled.....

Can an asterisk be put against Liverpools name?
		
Click to expand...

possibly but I prefer tippex🤗


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 5, 2020)

4LEX said:



			I don't get this song. I know United used to sing it when you were struggling in 2008 but why bring it back about yourselves? You're in no danger of relegation and don't have a billion in the bank......more like 800 billion in a portfolio of the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority 

Click to expand...

it is down to the City fans Humour. Obviously we are a liddle club thatS gonna get relegated Again. The song is acknowledging we have money and don’t really care what other fans think. And when we do get relegated we will have a Billion in the bank.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 5, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			it is down to the City fans Humour. Obviously we are a liddle club thatS gonna get relegated Again. The song is acknowledging we have money and don’t really care what other fans think. And when we do get relegated we will have a Billion in the bank.
		
Click to expand...

If the games have to be played without any fans in the ground because of the virus .
Will the City players notice any difference?
Asking for a friend.


----------



## Fish (Mar 5, 2020)

😂😂


----------



## Fish (Mar 5, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Totally agree on this. Rudiger accused Spurs fans of racism a few months back. It was investigated and no evidence offered yet he still had the cheek to say he was right. The media were too scared to accuse him of making false/incorrect allegations up, so it was brushed under the carpet. As a result the damage was done to Spurs fans and then when they booed him the other week in response, he had a pathetic moan and they got more bad publicity. Nothing was said about how he might've been mistaken, acted irresponsibly and accused without evidence.

I'm all for players and fans standing upto to racism but we're seeing a dangerous culture developing where the race card is played for any sort of thing players/fans don't like. Which devalues genuine issues of racism in society.
		
Click to expand...

What a crock of shite.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 5, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			If the games have to be played without any fans in the ground because of the virus .
Will the City players notice any difference?
Asking for a friend.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.givemesport.com/1537005...h-premier-league-stadium-has-been-this-season

oops


----------



## fundy (Mar 5, 2020)

Fish said:



View attachment 29316

😂😂
		
Click to expand...

His heatmaps better 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1235617593874173955


----------



## fundy (Mar 5, 2020)

good to see Jesse Lingard back on the score sheet lol


----------



## Fish (Mar 5, 2020)




----------



## AmandaJR (Mar 5, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



https://www.givemesport.com/1537005...h-premier-league-stadium-has-been-this-season

oops
		
Click to expand...

Don't let the facts get in the way Tashy...


----------



## fundy (Mar 5, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Don't let the facts get in the way Tashy...
		
Click to expand...

one things for certain, if they think Arsenal have averaged over 99% attendance this season then they arent facts!!!!!!


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 5, 2020)

Only league table we will ever top


----------



## AmandaJR (Mar 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			one things for certain, if they think Arsenal have averaged over 99% attendance this season then they arent facts!!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Maybe? https://www.soccerstats.com/attendance.asp?league=england


----------



## fundy (Mar 5, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Maybe? https://www.soccerstats.com/attendance.asp?league=england

Click to expand...

Nope, Arsenal only ever release tickets sold numbers not numbers actually there. Watch a home game, you'll see what I mean!


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 5, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Maybe? https://www.soccerstats.com/attendance.asp?league=england

Click to expand...





attendance
/əˈtɛnd(ə)ns/
Learn to pronounce
_noun_


the action or state of going regularly to or being present at a place or event.
"my *attendance at* church was very patchy"

Similar:
presence


appearance


attending


being there

turning up

showing up

showing


***Buying/selling a ticket doesn’t constitute attendance***


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 5, 2020)

been sent a stonking photo re the Irish kid who sent a letter to Mr Klopp asking them to lose. Cannot post it as there’s a swear word on it and I dont want a two fingering off fragger. 
That aside it seems Klopp is granting Daragh his wish after all, 🤗🤗


----------



## Fish (Mar 5, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Only league table we will ever top
		
Click to expand...

Nah, league 2 beckons 😏


----------



## USER1999 (Mar 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			Nope, Arsenal only ever release tickets sold numbers not numbers actually there. Watch a home game, you'll see what I mean!
		
Click to expand...

Premier league rules I am afraid. It has nothing to do with Arsenal.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 7, 2020)

Serious question, is Watford in London?

Just listened to Dan Walker on football focus say a London team beat Liverpool.


----------



## PieMan (Mar 7, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Serious question, is Watford in London?[ /QUOTE]

No.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## fundy (Mar 7, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Serious question, is Watford in London?

Just listened to Dan Walker on football focus say a London team beat Liverpool.
		
Click to expand...

its in Hertfordshire


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 7, 2020)

I thought as much. Thought am losing me marbles.


----------



## Wolf (Mar 7, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I thought as much. Thought am losing me marbles.
		
Click to expand...

Whilst it isn't in London but in Hertfordshire, it often gets referred to as part of it due to the fact it does have a London Overground railway station and is an actual stop on the London underground  metropolitan line as well.


----------



## Slime (Mar 7, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Serious question, is Watford in London?

Just listened to Dan Walker on football focus say a London team beat Liverpool.
		
Click to expand...

Chelsea beat them.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 7, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Serious question, is Watford in London?

Just listened to Dan Walker on football focus say a London team beat Liverpool.
		
Click to expand...

I was surprised last week when Crystal Palace v Brighton was referred to as a local derby


----------



## Wolf (Mar 7, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			I was surprised last week when Crystal Palace v Brighton was referred to as a local derby
		
Click to expand...

Now that is shocking, got to be roughly 50miles between the 2 grounds and the fact ones on the East Sussex coast. Where do these pundits learn their geography.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 7, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Now that is shocking, got to be roughly 50miles between the 2 grounds and the fact ones on the East Sussex coast. Where do these pundits learn their geography.
		
Click to expand...

I had to read up about it. Apparently they have a viscous rivalry after controversial FA Cup game years ago.

But, local rivals? Not a chance.


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 7, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			I had to read up about it. Apparently they have a viscous rivalry after controversial FA Cup game years ago.

But, local rivals? Not a chance.
		
Click to expand...




Wolf said:



			Now that is shocking, got to be roughly 50miles between the 2 grounds and the fact ones on the East Sussex coast. Where do these pundits learn their geography.
		
Click to expand...

I think frequency of matches plays a part too.
If they're the closest you team you play with regularity then it can add something.

I grew up having a soft sport fr bmouth because they were never a rival. That is until we played em when we got relegated. Soon realised that bmouth, Brighton and Plymouth all despised us.


----------



## Wolf (Mar 7, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I think frequency of matches plays a part too.
If they're the closest you team you play with regularity then it can add something.

I grew up having a soft sport fr bmouth because they were never a rival. That is until we played em when we got relegated. Soon realised that bmouth, Brighton and Plymouth all despised us.
		
Click to expand...

I can see there maybe a bit of needle but there's no way Palace and Brighton are local rivals, that's pundits trying to talk up what would be an average game. 

I can see more rivalry between Bournemouth, Pompey and your lot as your all along the same stretch of coast.


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 7, 2020)

Wolf said:



			I can see there maybe a bit of needle but there's no way Palace and Brighton are local rivals, that's pundits trying to talk up what would be an average game.

I can see more rivalry between Bournemouth, Pompey and your lot as your all along the same stretch of coast.
		
Click to expand...

If they used the time local then i agree its inaccurate. 

But certainly brighton and palace have a rivalry more fierce than Brighton and any of the other teams you mentioned.


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2020)

fundy said:



			its in Hertfordshire
		
Click to expand...

Anything within the m25 is London easy to remember lol 

Also if they have met police is a sign


----------



## fundy (Mar 7, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Anything within the m25 is London easy to remember lol 

Also if they have met police is a sign
		
Click to expand...

what?


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 7, 2020)

fundy said:



			what?
		
Click to expand...

3 checks to if in London
London underground station is one
Met police covering the area is two
Within m25 is 3, London orbital and all that 

Watford has ,2/3


----------



## fundy (Mar 7, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			3 checks to if in London
London underground station is one
Met police covering the area is two
Within m25 is 3, London orbital and all that 

Watford has ,2/3
		
Click to expand...

and again what?

the only check is whether it is actually in London or not. Is it part of a London borough? No its not, its part of a county outside London called Hertfordshire!

Re your 3 point check:
1) Plenty of underground stations outside London
2) Covered by Hertfordshire constabulary
3) A road doesnt determine where a place is lol


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 7, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Anything within the m25 is London easy to remember lol

Also if they have met police is a sign
		
Click to expand...

Ave met police before, but am in Mansfield. Surely that’s not London 😳😁


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 7, 2020)

That for me is a nailed on push in the back. As Carra says, on the half way line it’s a free kick. But it’s In the box so where is VAR. Shocking.


----------



## Jensen (Mar 7, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Ave met police before, but am in Mansfield. Surely that’s not London 😳😁
		
Click to expand...

No, Nottingham but are YOU sure it's not the Met 😂😂


----------



## Jensen (Mar 7, 2020)

Mourinho starts with Alli as a striker when we have a striker in Lucas Moura on the bench 🙄🙄


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 7, 2020)

Jensen said:



			No, Nottingham but are YOU sure it's not the Met 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

not got fond memories of the  met police during the strike ☹️


----------



## Jensen (Mar 7, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			not got fond memories of the  met police during the strike ☹️
		
Click to expand...

No, they punched a few lights out and waved £20 notes. 
Not nice.
But your real beef should be with SCARGILL


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 7, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Mourinho starts with Alli as a striker when we have a *striker in Lucas Moura *on the bench 🙄🙄
		
Click to expand...

Has he ever played up top when strikers have been available? I always thought of him as a link up player.


----------



## Jensen (Mar 7, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Has he ever played up top when strikers have been available? I always thought of him as a link up player.
		
Click to expand...

If it wasn't for him we would've never made the CL Final


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 7, 2020)

Jensen said:



*No, they punched a few lights out and waved £20 notes.
Not nice.*
But your real beef should be with SCARGILL
		
Click to expand...

Surprised you knew that Jensen, 😳👍 not gonna dwell on the topic as it’s one of them that goes south pretty quickly.


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 7, 2020)

Jensen said:



			If it wasn't for him we would've never made the CL Final
		
Click to expand...

And? 

I wouldn't expect one good game to define a career, then again, it did for Wilshire


----------



## Piece (Mar 7, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Serious question, is Watford in London?

Just listened to Dan Walker on football focus say a London team beat Liverpool.
		
Click to expand...

🤔😲. Thats like saying is Manchester in Liverpool 😛😉


----------



## JamesR (Mar 7, 2020)

Another unexpected point, for Burnley, against a supposedly top team👏👍
only 1 point to go until the “safe” 40 point mark is reached!


----------



## Jensen (Mar 7, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Another unexpected point, for Burnley, against a supposedly top team👏👍
only 1 point to go until the “safe” 40 point mark is reached!
		
Click to expand...




Papas1982 said:



			And? 

I wouldn't expect one good game to define a career, then again, it did for Wilshire 

Click to expand...

Not too difficult against The Poison One, and the dross he serves up 🙁😫


----------



## USER1999 (Mar 7, 2020)

So many Spurs fans celebrated binning off serial won zip Poch, and loved getting a proven winner in Morinho. Amazing how many have turned, so quickly.


----------



## Jensen (Mar 7, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			So many Spurs fans celebrated binning off serial won zip Poch, and loved getting a proven winner in Morinho. Amazing how many have turned, so quickly.
		
Click to expand...

Eh, No. I was and have NEVER been happy with the appointment.
Can't understand what Levy was/is thinking.....madness


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Mar 7, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Another unexpected point, for Burnley, against a supposedly top team👏👍
only 1 point to go until the “safe” 40 point mark is reached!
		
Click to expand...

Had a draw in the prediction league but went 0-0. Thought both had chances to win the game. Alli doesn't look an out and out goalscorer in that Mourinho system and definitely a square peg in a round hole in that position


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 7, 2020)

Piece said:



			🤔😲. Thats like saying is Manchester in Liverpool 😛😉
		
Click to expand...

🙄😳🤧😂


----------



## Jensen (Mar 7, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Had a draw in the prediction league but went 0-0. Thought both had chances to win the game. Alli doesn't look an out and out goalscorer in that Mourinho system and definitely a square peg in a round hole in that position
		
Click to expand...

Alli, an out and out scorer 😂 have a word with Mourinho cause he clearly has no idea


----------



## ColchesterFC (Mar 7, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Another unexpected point, for Burnley, against a supposedly top team👏👍
only 1 point to go until the “safe” 40 point mark is reached!
		
Click to expand...

Shouldn't Burnley start looking the other way in the table at this point? 12 points clear of relegation zone but only 4 points off 5th place and 6 off 4th. Great season for them already and a chance to possibly make it even better and give their fans a European adventure next season.


----------



## JamesR (Mar 7, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Shouldn't Burnley start looking the other way in the table at this point? 12 points clear of relegation zone but only 4 points off 5th place and 6 off 4th. Great season for them already and a chance to possibly make it even better and give their fans a European adventure next season.
		
Click to expand...

All that really matters is safety, that’s why Burnley fans are generally happy.
Strive too far and you end up disappointed, even when you shouldn’t be...a couple of years ago we got into Europe and it was almost a disaster.


----------



## Swingalot (Mar 7, 2020)

Wolf said:



			I can see there maybe a bit of needle but there's no way Palace and Brighton are local rivals, that's pundits trying to talk up what would be an average game. 

I can see more rivalry between Bournemouth, Pompey and your lot as your all along the same stretch of coast.
		
Click to expand...

Local no, rivals yes.

Don’t need to be local to have a rivalry.


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 8, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			I had to read up about it. Apparently they have a viscous rivalry after controversial FA Cup game years ago.

But, local rivals? Not a chance.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe the two teams tend to get themselves into sticky situations when they play each other?


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 8, 2020)

Choo Choo.....The Klopp Express is back on track 😁

9pts to Operation Unbearable 😍


----------



## pokerjoke (Mar 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Choo Choo.....The Klopp Express is back on track 😁

9pts to Operation Unbearable 😍
		
Click to expand...

Just watching MOTD Klopp really is a bell.
How can a manager who will win the league easily from the position there in put out his near strongest starting line up but in the FA cup put out a mixed team.
And if Gomez is a player for England we are doomed.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 8, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Just watching MOTD Klopp really is a bell.
How can a manager who will win the league easily from the position there in put out his near strongest starting line up but in the FA cup put out a mixed team.
And if Gomez is a player for England we are doomed.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 8, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Just watching MOTD Klopp really is a bell.
How can a manager who will win the league easily from the position there in put out his near strongest starting line up but in the FA cup put out a mixed team.
And if Gomez is a player for England we are doomed.
		
Click to expand...

He, and Liverpool are desperate to.win the league. The blinkers are on so that anything outside the league doesn't really matter.

He, or Liverpool, simply do not have the ambition of, say Ferguson and United, to aim higher and turn a league into a treble. He, or Liverpool, are not yet at the same level of a Wenger and Arsenal or maybe a Ancelotti and Chelsea to go for a double.

At this stage, they are happy to achieve something that Leicester and Blackburn have done before them. But, fair play to them, they know what they want and they are putting absolutely everything into it to get it. Perhaps this will be their year, where they win the league, and City win everything else.


----------



## pokerjoke (Mar 8, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			He, and Liverpool are desperate to.win the league. The blinkers are on so that anything outside the league doesn't really matter.

He, or Liverpool, simply do not have the ambition of, say Ferguson and United, to aim higher and turn a league into a treble. He, or Liverpool, are not yet at the same level of a Wenger and Arsenal or maybe a Ancelotti and Chelsea to go for a double.

At this stage, they are happy to achieve something that Leicester and Blackburn have done before them. But, fair play to them, they know what they want and they are putting absolutely everything into it to get it. Perhaps this will be their year, where they win the league, and City win everything else.
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool and their fans still worried they might blow it lmao


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 8, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			He, and Liverpool are desperate to.win the league. The blinkers are on so that anything outside the league doesn't really matter.

He, or Liverpool, simply do not have the ambition of, say Ferguson and United, to aim higher and turn a league into a treble. He, or Liverpool, are not yet at the same level of a Wenger and Arsenal or maybe a Ancelotti and Chelsea to go for a double.

At this stage, they are happy to achieve something that Leicester and Blackburn have done before them. But, fair play to them, they know what they want and they are putting absolutely everything into it to get it. Perhaps this will be their year, where they win the league, and City win everything else.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Dando (Mar 8, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			He, and Liverpool are desperate to.win the league. The blinkers are on so that anything outside the league doesn't really matter.

He, or Liverpool, simply do not have the ambition of, say Ferguson and United, to aim higher and turn a league into a treble. He, or Liverpool, are not yet at the same level of a Wenger and Arsenal or maybe a Ancelotti and Chelsea to go for a double.

At this stage, they are happy to achieve something that Leicester and Blackburn have done before them. But, fair play to them, they know what they want and they are putting absolutely everything into it to get it. Perhaps this will be their year, where they win the league, and City win everything else.
		
Click to expand...

Have you been smoking herbal cigarettes?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 8, 2020)

Nice to see a troll up early this morning.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 8, 2020)

Haha, sorry. I forgot honest opinions are not allowed. If they are, just quickly throw trolling/smoking accusations (because you have nothing else). Instead, we must all fool ourselves that Liverpool are the greatest, Klopp is the greatest, etc.

So, carry on. Well done in the league lads . Hopefully you beat Atletico, otherwise you'll effectively have a load of friendlies to finish the season, which is a pity because Liverpool had the quality in the side this year to do much more.


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 8, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Haha, sorry. I forgot *honest opinions* are not allowed. If they are, just quickly throw trolling/smoking accusations (because you have nothing else). Instead, we must all fool ourselves that Liverpool are the greatest, Klopp is the greatest, etc.

So, carry on. Well done in the league lads . Hopefully you beat Atletico, otherwise you'll effectively have a load of friendlies to finish the season, which is a pity because Liverpool had the quality in the side this year to do much more.
		
Click to expand...

Your opinion was based on Liverpool rotating for a cup game, and deciding it showed a lack of ambition, when quite simply the fa cup is the lowest priority of theirs left to play for. 
The fa/league cup only matter to the big teams when they are out of contention for the league.

Liverpool have a relatively small squad, and whilst the title is all but sewn up. I'm sure they'd rather win the CL for what is it, the 7th time? So it makes sense. Because if they get past Madrid, then the FA cup would be a burden.


----------



## pokerjoke (Mar 8, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Haha, sorry. I forgot honest opinions are not allowed. If they are, just quickly throw trolling/smoking accusations (because you have nothing else). Instead, we must all fool ourselves that Liverpool are the greatest, Klopp is the greatest, etc.

So, carry on. Well done in the league lads . Hopefully you beat Atletico, otherwise you'll effectively have a load of friendlies to finish the season, which is a pity because Liverpool had the quality in the side this year to do much more.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree
The league was won weeks ago but no-one from Liverpool would say it,Klopp included.
He’s puts out a weakened team against Chelsea,basically saying if we win we win but if we lose so what.
Liverpool’s current form won’t guarantee a win against Athletico when 3 or 4 weeks ago you would have said it was a certainty.
So basically all you have is a P/L title against the weakest opposition ever.
What could have been.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 8, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Haha, sorry. I forgot honest opinions are not allowed. If they are, just quickly throw trolling/smoking accusations (because you have nothing else). Instead, we must all fool ourselves that Liverpool are the greatest, Klopp is the greatest, etc.

So, carry on. Well done in the league lads . Hopefully you beat Atletico, otherwise you'll effectively have a load of friendlies to finish the season, which is a pity because Liverpool had the quality in the side this year to do much more.
		
Click to expand...

Poor me! nobody likes me! looks like somebody needs some attention.

You’ve had an Everton fan, a Soton fan and (I think) a Chelsea fan laugh and ridicule you.

Do you honestly think any of those people want Lpool to win anything?

But to read the utter rubbish you posted is a joke and looks nothing more than a very biased, bitter, utd fan looking for a bite.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 8, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Totally agree
The league was won weeks ago but no-one from Liverpool would say it,Klopp included.
He’s puts out a weakened team against Chelsea,basically saying if we win we win but if we lose so what.
Liverpool’s current form won’t guarantee a win against Athletico when 3 or 4 weeks ago you would have said it was a certainty.
So basically all you have is a P/L title against the weakest opposition ever.
What could have been.
		
Click to expand...

Rubbish Tony, you’re better than this mate. Whether we like it or not they want to win the PL and playing your best team in the competition they prioritise is understandable.
Next year if they were in the same position I might agree with you, this season they have 1 priority.


----------



## pokerjoke (Mar 8, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Your opinion was based on Liverpool rotating for a cup game, and deciding it showed a lack of ambition, when quite simply the fa cup is the lowest priority of theirs left to play for.
The fa/league cup only matter to the big teams when they are out of contention for the league.

Liverpool have a relatively small squad, and whilst the title is all but sewn up. I'm sure they'd rather win the CL for what is it, the 7th time? So it makes sense. Because if they get past Madrid, then the FA cup would be a burden.
		
Click to expand...

Sports not built on ifs and buts.
You have to show ambition to win all you can when the opportunity arrives.
Every week Klopp says we take one game at a time,well that’s absolute rubbish if your looking to put weakened teams out or rest players for bigger games.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Rubbish Tony, you’re better than this mate. Whether we like it or not they want to win the PL and playing your best team in the competition they prioritise is understandable.
Next year if they were in the same position I might agree with you, this season they have 1 priority.
		
Click to expand...

Yes agree here .
But Klopp has given a few mixed messages to the fans.
Put a youth team out in the FA cup early rounds then a much stronger team against Chealsea.
But 100% the fans want the PL .
Klopp has never shown any interest in the domestic cups.
He’s in charge and what he says goes.


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 8, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Sports not built on ifs and buts.
You have to show ambition to win all you can when the opportunity arrives.
Every week Klopp says we take one game at a time,well that’s absolute rubbish if your looking to put weakened teams out or rest players for bigger games.
		
Click to expand...

A few years ago Mourinho binned off the pl and went all out for the CL via Europa league Because it was the more likely chance of success.

All teams will have priorities. Liverpool are much like Dortmund a few years back. They have a small squad and it needs rotating. You said in a previous post their form won’t guarantee a win against athletico atm where as it would have a few weeks ago. The same was true for the Chelsea game. They had already lost and he obviously decided that he wanted fresher legs for the league and CL.


----------



## pokerjoke (Mar 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Rubbish Tony, you’re better than this mate. Whether we like it or not they want to win the PL and playing your best team in the competition they prioritise is understandable.
Next year if they were in the same position I might agree with you, this season they have 1 priority.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t agree at all
No team has ever blown a lead so big nowhere near.
Apparently some also Touting Liverpool’s team as the best P/L team ever,if that’s the case blowing a 20+ lead would be laughable.
Yes Klopp can prioritise it’s his prerogative,but don’t shit yourself when you put yourself in such a good position.


----------



## Dan2501 (Mar 8, 2020)

Liverpool have played an absolute ton of games this season already, the legs will be tiring, the chances of picking up injuries are higher, they've already lost a couple of key players to injuries. They have to rotate somewhere, and it's up to Klopp to decide where he wants to prioritise, has to be some give somewhere.


----------



## pokerjoke (Mar 8, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			A few years ago Mourinho binned off the pl and went all out for the CL via Europa league Because it was the more likely chance of success.

All teams will have priorities. Liverpool are much like Dortmund a few years back. They have a small squad and it needs rotating. You said in a previous post their form won’t guarantee a win against athletico atm where as it would have a few weeks ago. The same was true for the Chelsea game. They had already lost and he obviously decided that he wanted fresher legs for the league and CL.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 8, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			I don’t agree at all
No team has ever blown a lead so big nowhere near.
Apparently some also Touting Liverpool’s team as the best P/L team ever,if that’s the case blowing a 20+ lead would be laughable.
Yes Klopp can prioritise it’s his prerogative,but don’t shit yourself when you put yourself in such a good position.
		
Click to expand...

The first PL season 1992/3, Utd had finished runners up the year before and hadn’t won the title since the 60’s, Ferguson rotated his squad for the FA Cup, League Cup and UEFA Cup and went out of all 3 Cups early doors.
Agreed he never had the points advantage LPool have, but priority was to win the title, you remember how much stick yous took and the jokes because of the time period, yet you’d won other trophies during those years but it didn’t matter as the title was the be all and end all.


----------



## pokerjoke (Mar 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The first PL season 1992/3, Utd had finished runners up the year before and hadn’t won the title since the 60’s, Ferguson rotated his squad for the FA Cup, League Cup and UEFA Cup and went out of all 3 Cups early doors.
Agreed he never had the points advantage LPool have, but priority was to win the title, you remember how much stick yous took and the jokes because of the time period, yet you’d won other trophies during those years but it didn’t matter as the title was the be all and end all.
		
Click to expand...

28 years ago come on mate the games moved on.
The leagues won,if your worried your going to blow that lead you shouldn’t be in the game.
Worrying about injuries that may or may not happen,if we all thought like that we wouldn’t win nothing.
Klopp imo has started to feel the pressure big time.
They won’t win the CL the way they are playing atm so a PL title only is a bit of a let down for such a great team.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 8, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			28 years ago come on mate the games moved on.
The leagues won,if your worried your going to blow that lead you shouldn’t be in the game.
Worrying about injuries that may or may not happen,if we all thought like that we wouldn’t win nothing.
Klopp imo has started to feel the pressure big time.
They won’t win the CL the way they are playing atm so a PL title only is a bit of a let down for such a great team.
		
Click to expand...

Time is irrelevant Tony, they are desperate to win the PL, nothing else matters atm, they need the monkey off their back!
As I said, if it was next season I’d agree with you.
Every PL Club, apart from Lpool dreams of winning the CL, to Lpool it’s not the biggie or priority right now.


----------



## pokerjoke (Mar 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Time is irrelevant Tony, they are desperate to win the PL, nothing else matters atm, they need the monkey off their back!
As I said, if it was next season I’d agree with you.
Every PL Club, apart from Lpool dreams of winning the CL, to Lpool it’s not the biggie or priority right now.
		
Click to expand...

To be honest you can keep saying there priority is the PL and I will agree with you.
Let’s look at why it’s won 
Liverpool are the best team by miles
The league is the weakest ever
They are over 20 points clear.
You would have to seriously doubt yourself as a player,manager or supporter to think you were going to blow it from this position.
I’m not saying put the youths out for the rest of the season far from it.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Poor me! nobody likes me! looks like somebody needs some attention.

You’ve had an Everton fan, a Soton fan and (I think) a Chelsea fan laugh and ridicule you.

Do you honestly think any of those people want Lpool to win anything?

But to read the utter rubbish you posted is a joke and looks nothing more than a very biased, bitter, utd fan looking for a bite.
		
Click to expand...

Funny. You heavily read between lines to try and make any discussion personal. Poor form really.

All I was saying that, once Liverpool won league, they will have achieved the same as Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City, Blackburn and Leicester. Nothing wrong with that, but that's simply the case.

I was also saying that it seems they do not necessarily have the ambition to push for more, and so not on the same level as sides that have done more in the past. Yet. I agree teams need to rotate. But, when they have built up the biggest lead in history on the league, you'd think they'd have given themselves the perfect opportunity to rest players in league games, and then massively push for every trophy. To become one of the greatest seasons in history of any club.

But, they haven't. And, that is fine, it's up to them. I can see why the desperation to win the league is so high, after so long without one. 

Maybe they will get through in Champions League anyway, but I was ONLY saying that Liverpool are not at the same level as what other clubs have achieved in a season in the past. However, after this year, then next year they may well end up having the balls to strive for more. In just over a year time, we could be saying they've had the greatest season in history, or at least achieved as much as anyone else has.

However, people really need to calm down when an opinion is made that they cant handle. I'm not trying to troll here, I only responded to someone elses comment about Liverpool. But, if I was trolling, you rise to the bait perfectly


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 8, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			To be honest you can keep saying there priority is the PL and I will agree with you.
Let’s look at why it’s won
Liverpool are the best team by miles
The league is the weakest ever
They are over 20 points clear.
You would have to seriously doubt yourself as a player,manager or supporter to think you were going to blow it from this position.
I’m not saying put the youths out for the rest of the season far from it.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t think they are doubting themselves, simply playing his best 11 in the priority games, why risk an injury in an FA Cup tie? You can’t say to a player, “don’t worry if you get injured against Chelsea in the Cup and finish your season, we’ve won the PL”
He wants his first 11 in the games he chooses, he’s German, the Cup means very little.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t think they are doubting themselves, simply playing his best 11 in the priority games, why risk an injury in an FA Cup tie? You can’t say to a player, “don’t worry if you get injured against Chelsea in the Cup and finish your season, we’ve won the PL”
He wants his first 11 in the games he chooses, he’s German, the Cup means very little.
		
Click to expand...

He's German, the cup means very little. That's a good one. I'm sure the Liverpool fans that do like the FA Cup would be perfectly happy with that excuse. 

Thankfully, he isn't a German who prioritises Champions League over PL. That would probably be a step too far.


----------



## pokerjoke (Mar 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t think they are doubting themselves, simply playing his best 11 in the priority games, why risk an injury in an FA Cup tie? You can’t say to a player, “don’t worry if you get injured against Chelsea in the Cup and finish your season, we’ve won the PL”
He wants his first 11 in the games he chooses, he’s German, the Cup means very little.
		
Click to expand...

Every time a player steps on a pitch he risks injury.
Didn’t Alison get injured in training last week.
Imagine a son asking his dad wether he won the FA cup but the dad says no,but I didn’t get injured either.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 8, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Funny. You heavily read between lines to try and make any discussion personal. Poor form really.

All I was saying that, once Liverpool won league, they will have achieved the same as Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City, Blackburn and Leicester. Nothing wrong with that, but that's simply the case.

I was also saying that it seems they do not necessarily have the ambition to push for more, and so not on the same level as sides that have done more in the past. Yet. I agree teams need to rotate. But, when they have built up the biggest lead in history on the league, you'd think they'd have given themselves the perfect opportunity to rest players in league games, and then massively push for every trophy. To become one of the greatest seasons in history of any club.

But, they haven't. And, that is fine, it's up to them. I can see why the desperation to win the league is so high, after so long without one.

Maybe they will get through in Champions League anyway, but I was ONLY saying that Liverpool are not at the same level as what other clubs have achieved in a season in the past. However, after this year, then next year they may well end up having the balls to strive for more. In just over a year time, we could be saying they've had the greatest season in history, or at least achieved as much as anyone else has.

However, people really need to calm down when an opinion is made that they cant handle. I'm not trying to troll here, I only responded to someone elses comment about Liverpool. But, if I was trolling, you rise to the bait perfectly
		
Click to expand...

Funny how in other threads we are told our opinions are wrong, we are clueless and should stick to facts.

Here’s a fact for you, how many other teams when winning the PL for the first time were already CL holders and World Club Champions?

Does that fact show you comparing a team winning the PL for the first time being held up against those having the great seasons you mention only having won the PL previously as fair?

Your biase against Lpool is as plain as day and your trolling is just as obvious.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 8, 2020)

Hmmmmmm, what an interesting read re Liverpool.
First thing re League cup



Papas1982 said:



			Your opinion was based on Liverpool rotating for a cup game, and deciding it showed a lack of ambition, when quite simply the fa cup is the lowest priority of theirs left to play for.
*The fa/league cup only matter to the big teams when they are out of contention for the league*.

Liverpool have a relatively small squad, and whilst the title is all but sewn up. I'm sure they'd rather win the CL for what is it, the 7th time? So it makes sense. Because if they get past Madrid, then the FA cup would be a burden.
		
Click to expand...

Not when it comes to Man City. All cups matter,  but yes there are priorites.

Back to Liverpool. Last season I thought there football and City’s were as good as I have seen. Unfortunately there had to be a winner and a loser. I thought Liverpool’s football last year was better than this seasons. But City won th league so does that make them a better team. Argue amongst yourselves re that. But they finished the season as European and world club winners. Not a bad effort. 
Roll onto this season, they have walked it, City have not turned up for various reasons, neither have most other teams re challengers, but try telling Sheff Utd and Wolves fans etc it’s a poor year.  But a couple of months ago Liverpool were mentioned in the same breath as the invincibles and other great teams of the past. Again argue amongst yourselves over that one again. However like nigh on all teams in the prem they have hit a rough patch which no one saw coming. In that period they have gone out of the FA cup, behind in the Champs league. And lost One game in the prem, One game. It’s not the end of the world by a million miles, but that unbeaten run. That air of invincibility, That mentioned in the same breath as the invincibles has gone.
So do the Liverpool fans care? If I was one I wouldn’t give a toss. I still remember that Agueroooooooooooooooooooo moment. That spine tingling run down your back when you know you are the Champs of the Prem league for the first time ever. That’s what they want, that’s what they will get, that’s what this year they have earned.
My concern as a City fan is once they have had a taste they will want another. Under Klopp Ave a feeling the foundations of this Liverpool team have been laid for a few years.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 8, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Every time a player steps on a pitch he risks injury.
Didn’t Alison get injured in training last week.
Imagine a son asking his dad wether he won the FA cup but the dad says no,but I didn’t get injured either.
		
Click to expand...

Probably won’t mention the FA Cup as he’ll be cleaning his PL, CL and World Club medals.


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 8, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Hmmmmmm, what an interesting read re Liverpool.
First thing re League cup



*Not when it comes to Man City. All cups matter,  but yes there are priorites.*

Back to Liverpool. Last season I thought there football and City’s were as good as I have seen. Unfortunately there had to be a winner and a loser. I thought Liverpool’s football last year was better than this seasons. But City won th league so does that make them a better team. Argue amongst yourselves re that. But they finished the season as European and world club winners. Not a bad effort.
Roll onto this season, they have walked it, City have not turned up for various reasons, neither have most other teams re challengers, but try telling Sheff Utd and Wolves fans etc it’s a poor year.  But a couple of months ago Liverpool were mentioned in the same breath as the invincibles and other great teams of the past. Again argue amongst yourselves over that one again. However like nigh on all teams in the prem they have hit a rough patch which no one saw coming. In that period they have gone out of the FA cup, behind in the Champs league. And lost One game in the prem, One game. It’s not the end of the world by a million miles, but that unbeaten run. That air of invincibility, That mentioned in the same breath as the invincibles has gone.
So do the Liverpool fans care? If I was one I wouldn’t give a toss. I still remember that Agueroooooooooooooooooooo moment. That spine tingling run down your back when you know you are the Champs of the Prem league for the first time ever. That’s what they want, that’s what they will get, that’s what this year they have earned.
My concern as a City fan is once they have had a taste they will want another. Under Klopp Ave a feeling the foundations of this Liverpool team have been laid for a few years.
		
Click to expand...

I think there are two reasons why it is slightly different for city. 

One, the sheer size of squad. You do still rotate in the cups, but it isn't as obvious due to the players you can still call on. 
Secondly, with the greatest respect, your clubs profile simply isn't or at least wan't as big as the rivals you've gained since the financial input of your owners. 

That's not a dig btw, i know historically you have won a little bit, BUT in the TV era (gaining worldwide support) you aren't in the same league as the rest. So the more cups you win, the better it is for your club from a marketing POV.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Funny how in other threads we are told our opinions are wrong, we are clueless and should stick to facts.

Here’s a fact for you, how many other teams when winning the PL for the first time were already CL holders and World Club Champions?

Does that fact show you comparing a team winning the PL for the first time being held up against those having the great seasons you mention only having won the PL previously as fair?

Your biase against Lpool is as plain as day and your trolling is just as obvious.
		
Click to expand...

Again, not strictly correct. In other threads, I have only defended my position. Others tell me I am wrong, but if I try and flip the argument, they have none of it.

It is true, as a fan, I dislike Liverpool. I don't enjoy seeing them play well, but I'll hold my hands up when they do. Not once, do people like yourself, acknowledge what I say when I give Liverpool credit. But, as soon as I say something that could be deemed even slightly negative, time for you to jump down my throat again.

Maybe Man Utd fans are simply not allowed their opinion, unless it is a positive one.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 8, 2020)

Wow, some real shite being spouted and LP is nowhere to be seen 😂😂


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Wow, some real shite being spouted and LP is nowhere to be seen 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Why is he on holiday.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Mar 8, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Why is he on holiday.
		
Click to expand...

Must be, new post numbers have dipped...haven't you noticed?


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 8, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Why is he on holiday.
		
Click to expand...

Dunno Tashy old boy


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 8, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Again, not strictly correct. In other threads, I have only defended my position. Others tell me I am wrong, but if I try and flip the argument, they have none of it.

It is true, as a fan, I dislike Liverpool. I don't enjoy seeing them play well, but I'll hold my hands up when they do. Not once, do people like yourself, acknowledge what I say when I give Liverpool credit. But, as soon as I say something that could be deemed even slightly negative, time for you to jump down my throat again.

Maybe Man Utd fans are simply not allowed their opinion, unless it is a positive one.
		
Click to expand...

Anyone can have an opinion.
But Klopps in charge of the train and he’s blowing his whistle , it dosnt matter what we think!
He will do what is best for LFC.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 8, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Anyone can have an opinion.
But Klopps in charge of the train and he’s blowing his whistle , it dosnt matter what we think!
He will do what is best for LFC.
		
Click to expand...

I completely agree with that


----------



## pokerjoke (Mar 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Wow, some real shite being spouted and LP is nowhere to be seen 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

I wouldn’t worry about that he’s already spouted enough to last 2 seasons


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 8, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Again, not strictly correct. In other threads, I have only defended my position. Others tell me I am wrong, but if I try and flip the argument, they have none of it.

It is true, as a fan, I dislike Liverpool. I don't enjoy seeing them play well, but I'll hold my hands up when they do. Not once, do people like yourself, acknowledge what I say when I give Liverpool credit. But, as soon as I say something that could be deemed even slightly negative, time for you to jump down my throat again.

Maybe Man Utd fans are simply not allowed their opinion, unless it is a positive one.
		
Click to expand...

Poor you! Desperately seeking attention! On to the ignore list you go.


----------



## pokerjoke (Mar 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Probably won’t mention the FA Cup as he’ll be cleaning his PL, CL and World Club medals.

Click to expand...

Jumping the gun there buddy,long long way to go in the C/L this year


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 8, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Anyone can have an opinion.
But Klopps in charge of the train and he’s blowing his whistle , it dosnt matter what we think!
He will do what is best for LFC.
		
Click to expand...

No no no, you’ve been told he’s bottled it and you are all in a state of panic, that’s been stated as a fact.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 8, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Jumping the gun there buddy,long long way to go in the C/L this year
		
Click to expand...

They hold the CL Tony!


----------



## pokerjoke (Mar 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			They hold the CL Tony!
		
Click to expand...

I know but my posts are about this year.
Takes Giggs weeks to polish his


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 8, 2020)

Christ, this could be 5 or 6 the way Chelsea have started!


----------



## Dan2501 (Mar 8, 2020)

If we sign Sidibe on a permanent when we've already got Kenny to come back then Brands needs his head examining. Absolutely dreadful.


----------



## Dan2501 (Mar 8, 2020)

This is embarrassing. What are they doing? Not even making an effort to defend. Carlo must be wondering what the hell he's signed up for.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 8, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			This is embarrassing. What are they doing? Not even making an effort to defend. Carlo must be wondering what the hell he's signed up for.
		
Click to expand...

Excellent Chelsea performance. But yes, Everton have been dire. Apart from a decent couple of saves from Pickford (make that 3 as he leaps through air to save another as I type this), the Everton players have been hopeless.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 8, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			This is embarrassing. What are they doing? Not even making an effort to defend. Carlo must be wondering what the hell he's signed up for.
		
Click to expand...

Big Duncs first game was against Chelsea and we got right in their faces. Today we are standing off and giving them all the time they need. Carlo's list of players to move on in the summer must be increasing after today.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 8, 2020)

If Everton need any defenders have a look at Otamendi and Stones  please 👍


----------



## Dan2501 (Mar 8, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Big Duncs first game was against Chelsea and we got right in their faces. Today we are standing off and giving them all the time they need. Carlo's list of players to move on in the summer must be increasing after today.
		
Click to expand...

Pretty much. Need a major summer clear-out. Sidibe, Keane, Sigurdsson, Walcott, Schneiderlin, Niasse, Tosun, Martina, Bolasie, Sandro and Tarashaj all need to be shifted off the wage bill in the summer I think, and Brands and Ancelotti need to start building their squad.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 8, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Big Duncs first game was against Chelsea and we got right in their faces. Today we are standing off and giving them all the time they need. Carlo's list of players to move on in the summer must be increasing after today.
		
Click to expand...

It’s more than that mate, why can’t we just do the basics?
- Run
- Tackle
- Mark up
- don’t ball watch
- show for a pass
- move into space.

And we still need to give Chelsea credit for their performance, it’s not all about how bad we’ve been.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 8, 2020)

No complaints, best performance under Lampard for them and back to Silva days for us.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 8, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			I know but my posts are about this year.
Takes Giggs weeks to polish his 

Click to expand...

Too busy laying his brother's missus.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			No complaints, best performance under Lampard for them and back to Silva days for us.

Click to expand...

Honest opinions are in the Brexit thread Paul. But sometimes you just have to hold your hands up 👍


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 8, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			If Everton need any defenders have a look at Otamendi and Stones  please 👍
		
Click to expand...

Thanks but no thanks 😁. Don't forget, we sold Stones to you. We know all about his mistake per game 🤔.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 8, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Pretty much. Need a major summer clear-out. Sidibe, Keane, Sigurdsson, Walcott, Schneiderlin, Niasse, Tosun, Martina, Bolasie, Sandro and Tarashaj all need to be shifted off the wage bill in the summer I think, and Brands and Ancelotti need to start building their squad.
		
Click to expand...

Agree with that list but they will do well to shift them all. Wages are usually the stumbling block and it depends how many Everton are prepared to support as players rarely accept a pay cut when they move. Hopefully there are a good few out of contract.


----------



## fundy (Mar 8, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Pretty much. Need a major summer clear-out. Sidibe, Keane, Sigurdsson, Walcott, Schneiderlin, Niasse, Tosun, Martina, Bolasie, Sandro and Tarashaj all need to be shifted off the wage bill in the summer I think, and Brands and Ancelotti need to start building their squad.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure whos list is worse lol: Ozil, Mustafi, Kolasinac, Sokratis, Mavropanos, Xhaka, Mhikitaryan, Elneny, Luiz whilst we will lose Lacazette and probably Aubameyang instead


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 8, 2020)

Thanks VAR! Clear penalty that, just kicks him.


----------



## fundy (Mar 8, 2020)

thats a clear pen lol, refs booked Fred and on we go, VAR had a 1/2 second look it seems


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 8, 2020)

That's VAR for you. They did have a quick look to be fair, but I suspect the VAR ref had got up for a cuppa, so didn't bother having a proper look.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 8, 2020)

Seen pens given for less, though Yernited were fortunate with the free kick Fernandes "won". A great bit of thinking from Fernandes though, yernited deservedly ahead.


----------



## pokerjoke (Mar 8, 2020)

Shocking decision 
Hard to see live but so easy in slow mo.
Var is a joke not just today but on a regular basis.
Could have closed the gap on LiVARpool there in the var table


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 8, 2020)

Apparently it wasn’t enough to go down as he did? That isn’t how penalties work, mate. :/


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 8, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Apparently it wasn’t enough to go down as he did? That isn’t how penalties work, mate. :/
		
Click to expand...

I think this falls perfectly into @Liverbirdie's suggestion. Give the pen and book the player for the theatrics.


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 8, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I think this falls perfectly into @Liverbirdie's suggestion. Give the pen and book the player for the theatrics.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t even think Fred’s reaction was that exaggerated. Oh well.


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 8, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			I don’t even think Fred’s reaction was that exaggerated. Oh well.
		
Click to expand...

I don't either, *BUT* even if they have deemed the reaction ott, they could then look at the original foul and not have t chose one of the other.


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 8, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I don't either, *BUT* even if they have deemed the reaction ott, they could then look at the original foul and not have t chose one of the other.
		
Click to expand...

Oh yes I agree in principle.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 8, 2020)

Don’t know who is having the worst of games, Maguire, Otamendi or Dean.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Seen pens given for less, though Yernited were fortunate with the free kick Fernandes "won". A great bit of thinking from Fernandes though, yernited deservedly ahead.
		
Click to expand...

You know the forum rules Stu, you only moan about the decisions you don’t get!


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 8, 2020)

What the hell just happened? Surely that’s a goal for City?


----------



## AmandaJR (Mar 8, 2020)

Over to Crufts. VAR is the death of football.


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 8, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Don’t know who is having the worst of games, Maguire, Otamendi or Dean.
		
Click to expand...

Maguire is so hit and miss.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 8, 2020)

I thought linesman were meant to keep flag down initially, then once move over or goal scored, then put flag up. Are they not meant to only put flag up if they are certain?


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 8, 2020)

Left shoulder offside 😳sweet mother


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 8, 2020)

That felt like VAR have said offside to avoid having to give a goal when we’d stopped playing but that’s our fault.


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 8, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			That felt like VAR have said offside to avoid having to give a goal when we’d stopped playing but that’s our fault.
		
Click to expand...

They Certianly didn't check that Williams shoulder wasn't active.....


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 8, 2020)

Now that’s a way to finish a game.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 8, 2020)

6 baby 😂


----------



## Dan2501 (Mar 8, 2020)

Ighalo was superb when he came on, held the ball up fantastically, showed composure when they needed it. Excellent from United, gameplan worked and Ole gets another one over Pep. 10 games unbeaten, playing some good stuff. Fernandes has been an inspired signing as well, what a talent.


----------



## Jensen (Mar 8, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Don’t know who is having the worst of games, Maguire, Otamendi or Dean.
		
Click to expand...

Edison 🤔


----------



## pokerjoke (Mar 8, 2020)

Pep doing interviews total waste of air time


----------



## Slime (Mar 8, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Ighalo was superb when he came on, held the ball up fantastically, showed composure when they needed it. Excellent from United, gameplan worked and Ole gets another one over Pep. 10 games unbeaten, playing some good stuff. *Fernandes has been an inspired signing as well, what a talent.*

Click to expand...

It depends who you ask. 

I think he's United's game changer and was banging on about signing him last summer.
I just wonder what the season would have been like if Woodward had pulled his finger out last July/August.
Thankfully, Spurs bought the wrong Fernandes!

Great composure and finish by Scott McDominate.
United are definitely trending in the right direction.


----------



## Slime (Mar 8, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Don’t know who is having the worst of games, Maguire, Otamendi or Dean.
		
Click to expand...

Otamendi or Dean, obviously.
Maguire had a typically solid game, he's always in the right place, superb.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 8, 2020)

Just seen a stat City have lost more games this season than Arsenal and Wolves. Mad.


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 8, 2020)

Slime said:



			Otamendi or Dean, obviously.
Maguire had a typically solid game, he's always in the right place, superb.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but that’s not true in this game. He was on his arse a few times out of position and was bailed out by both Matic and Lindelof.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Mar 8, 2020)

The are a lot of discussions on here about "real/proper" football fans as opposed to those that watch from their armchairs at home. I guess that applies most when discussing the PL but at lower league level that simply isn't true. Today my team played away at Carlisle, a 640 mile round trip. The away attendance for our club was 146. One hundred and forty six Col U fans are so dedicated to the club that they have travelled that distance to watch "their" club. To me they (along with those in all leagues that watch their team week in/week out) are what I would consider "real" fans.

100 fans going to an away game at Plymouth on a Tuesday night are far more impressive than 3000 fans turning up on a Saturday for a home game.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 8, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			The are a lot of discussions on here about "real/proper" football fans as opposed to those that watch from their armchairs at home. I guess that applies most when discussing the PL but at lower league level that simply isn't true. Today my team played away at Carlisle, a 640 mile round trip. The away attendance for our club was 146. One hundred and forty six Col U fans are so dedicated to the club that they have travelled that distance to watch "their" club. To me they (along with those in all leagues that watch their team week in/week out) are what I would consider "real" fans.

100 fans going to an away game at Plymouth on a Tuesday night are far more impressive than 3000 fans turning up on a Saturday for a home game.
		
Click to expand...

With no disrespect mate, it’s not that simple, hat’s off to any fan travelling to support their team, but is a fan doing it for the first time this season any better than a fan who did for years and years and for whatever reason can’t do it anymore?

Do you lose the tag of “real fan” after missing so many games or seasons or in reverse, do you only get that tag after you’ve travelled to so many games.

The problem with the whole debate/discussion to me, is that it is wrong to label any individual with a particular status, armchair, home supporter only or goes to every game.

A “fan” is a “fan” and everybody’s circumstances are different and who are “we” to sit in judgement.


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 8, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			The are a lot of discussions on here about "real/proper" football fans as opposed to those that watch from their armchairs at home. I guess that applies most when discussing the PL but at lower league level that simply isn't true. Today my team played away at Carlisle, a 640 mile round trip. The away attendance for our club was 146. One hundred and forty six Col U fans are so dedicated to the club that they have travelled that distance to watch "their" club. To me they (along with those in all leagues that watch their team week in/week out) are what I would consider "real" fans.

100 fans going to an away game at Plymouth on a Tuesday night are far more impressive than 3000 fans turning up on a Saturday for a home game.
		
Click to expand...

It’s a nonsense invented by people who think they’re Uber fans. Simple fact is away tickets for some teams is hens teeth and some fans don’t attend the ground for many reasons including cost. Fans who go to the game are no better than so called armchair fans in the top leagues. They just like to think they are and that they understand the game more from their restricted views with no replays and inability to truly observe the finer nuances of a game that has become so quick at the top level that being there in person will never give the full picture, albeit the atmosphere is usually better.


----------



## Slime (Mar 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Just seen a stat City have lost more games this season than Arsenal and Wolves. Mad.
		
Click to expand...

Just seen this stat;
Since making his debut in the competition on 1 February, United's Bruno Fernandes has been directly involved in more goals in the Premier League than any other player (five - two goals and three assists).


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 9, 2020)

Slime said:



			Just seen this stat;
Since making his debut in the competition on 1 February, United's Bruno Fernandes has been directly involved in more goals in the Premier League than any other player (five - two goals and three assists).
		
Click to expand...

What's his diving stats? 🤭


----------



## PieMan (Mar 9, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			What's his diving stats? 🤭
		
Click to expand...

Depends on the difficulty rating of the dive - could be anywhere between 0 and 10!!!


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 9, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Mourinho starts with Alli as a striker when we have a striker in Lucas Moura on the bench 🙄🙄
		
Click to expand...

Lucas isn't a striker mate, what are you on about? He's winger or second-striker at best.



Dan2501 said:



			Liverpool have played an absolute ton of games this season already, the legs will be tiring, the chances of picking up injuries are higher, they've already lost a couple of key players to injuries. They have to rotate somewhere, and it's up to Klopp to decide where he wants to prioritise, has to be some give somewhere.
		
Click to expand...

Their squad isn't deep enough for that. Incredible first team but very poor bench by comparison. Hence they run that first team into the ground.

Top managers don't care about the FA Cup, that's obvious. They are serving the board who'll tell them to prioritise the league/champs league qualification, and progressing in the Champion's League, because that's where all the money is. Managers don't work for the fans. If their reserves can get them to a domestic cup final that's just a bonus.


----------



## Dan2501 (Mar 9, 2020)

Lucas is more of a striker than Dele Alli.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Mar 9, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			The are a lot of discussions on here about "real/proper" football fans as opposed to those that watch from their armchairs at home. I guess that applies most when discussing the PL but at lower league level that simply isn't true. Today my team played away at Carlisle, a 640 mile round trip. The away attendance for our club was 146. One hundred and forty six Col U fans are so dedicated to the club that they have travelled that distance to watch "their" club. To me they (along with those in all leagues that watch their team week in/week out) are what I would consider "real" fans.

100 fans going to an away game at Plymouth on a Tuesday night are far more impressive than 3000 fans turning up on a Saturday for a home game.
		
Click to expand...

I went to 86 away grounds with Fulham in the 80's mainly in the lower divisions until the Al Fayed revolution came along and we starting progressing up the leagues. I know the joys of trains being delayed and arriving back at Kings Cross or Euston long after the last tube has gone and having to get home and then be back to work the next day. I don't go often anymore maybe four to five games a year at most. Am I any less of a fan now as I don't go as much anymore?


----------



## Slime (Mar 9, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			What's his diving stats? 🤭
		
Click to expand...

Don't worry Stu, he's not after Salah's crown.  🤭


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 9, 2020)

Slime said:



			Don't worry Stu, he's not after Sallah's crown.  🤭
		
Click to expand...

After seeing his dive for that "foul" yesterday,Salah needs to up his game 😁


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 9, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Lucas is more of a striker than Dele Alli.
		
Click to expand...

If I was choosing between them I'd play Dele up front with Lucas and Bergwijn out wide. Lo Celso at number 10. Dele can at least win a header, hold the ball up, etc as he's bigger and stronger than the others.


----------



## Slime (Mar 9, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			After seeing his dive for that "foul" yesterday,Salah needs to up his game 😁
		
Click to expand...

Did you see Fred's 'dive'?
He did so well he got awarded with a yellow card ............................ but did the City defender get an assist?
He certainly should have.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 9, 2020)

Slime said:



			Did you see Fred's 'dive'?
He did so well he got awarded with a yellow card ............................ but did the City defender get an assist?
He certainly should have.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I did, probably the reason why he never got a pen because he made a meal of it.


----------



## pokerjoke (Mar 9, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah I did, probably the reason why he never got a pen because he made a meal of it.
		
Click to expand...

He was caught and wether he made a meal of it or not it’s a penalty.
If the VAR can’t see that with a slow mo he needs replacing.
Miss the refs debate today but surely they must of agreed he made a mistake.
I’m sure your comment was tongue in cheek


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 9, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			He was caught and wether he made a meal of it or not it’s a penalty.
If the VAR can’t see that with a slow mo he needs replacing.
Miss the refs debate today but surely they must of agreed he made a mistake.
I’m sure your comment was tongue in cheek
		
Click to expand...

Funny how you say  that's a pen yet Mane was caught against Leicester and you were adamant he dived and it wasnt a pen😁😁

Re VAR, I'll say again, until we improve the standard of refereeing  VAR decisions will be inconsistent.

I can't wait for someone to score a goal with their armpit 😁


----------



## Pin-seeker (Mar 9, 2020)

Personally I like to see decisions not given when the player starts with the theatrics,even if it was a foul 🤷‍♂️


----------



## pokerjoke (Mar 9, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Funny how you say  that's a pen yet Mane was caught against Leicester and you were adamant he dived and it wasnt a pen😁😁

Re VAR, I'll say again, until we improve the standard of refereeing  VAR decisions will be inconsistent.

I can't wait for someone to score a goal with

Show me my comment on Mane to remind me
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 9, 2020)

I can't be arsed looking for it, it was last year though . 

Before you get upset I thought it was a pen, but genuinely believe his theatrics cost him not getting it. 

LB's idea of the pen and a booking is his best one yet.


----------



## pokerjoke (Mar 9, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I can't be arsed looking for it, it was last year though .

Before you get upset I thought it was a pen, but genuinely believe his theatrics cost him not getting it.

LB's idea of the pen and a booking is his best one yet.
		
Click to expand...

Far from upset knew you were jesting.Not an obvious penalty before the slow mo but a dead cert when seen.
What VAR saw god only knows.
He got caught and was a pen pure and simple.
Anyway cheering on Villa tonight fancy Leicester to drop out top 4


----------



## fundy (Mar 9, 2020)

Not even sure his theatrics were that bad (especially when compared some of late)

What I dont understand is VAR took less than 5 seconds to make their decision on how negligible the contact was yet need 4 minutes to make their decision on some

The big frustration is VAR was supposed to bring in more consistency, if anything it has magnified the inconsistency!


----------



## AmandaJR (Mar 9, 2020)

fundy said:



			Not even sure his theatrics were that bad (especially when compared some of late)

What I dont understand is VAR took less than 5 seconds to make their decision on how negligible the contact was yet need 4 minutes to make their decision on some

The big frustration is VAR was supposed to bring in more consistency, if anything it has magnified the inconsistency!
		
Click to expand...

I think we could all forgive ref's making genuine mistakes when making a decision in real time and in a split second. What is unforgivable is the fact the same mistakes are being made with slow mo, drawings/lines and as long as they like to decide. It's truly shocking and I've lost all confidence in the process and watching a game is just frustrating.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 9, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			I think we could all forgive ref's making genuine mistakes when making a decision in real time and in a split second. What is unforgivable is the fact the same mistakes are being made with slow mo, drawings/lines and as long as they like to decide. It's truly shocking and I've lost all confidence in the process and watching a game is just frustrating.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I agree .
I think they should be alerted by the VAR that there is a problem.
Just go and look at the screen and make your own mind up.
That way it’s the onfield refs decision.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 9, 2020)

Oh dear Pepe!


----------



## fundy (Mar 9, 2020)

hows that handball lol


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 9, 2020)

Shoulder must be handball now. There was one a few months ago (can't remember game) where same thing happened. 

Maddison just barged in back in box. I doubt that will be given. I reckon if players appeal really hard, VAR is more likely to give it. Fred barely appealed yesterday, and therefore I doubt VAR gave it more than a few seconds thought. Had he furiously appealed, I bet VAR would have taken a lot longer to look at it.


----------



## Slime (Mar 10, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Personally I like to see decisions not given when the player starts with the theatrics,even if it was a foul 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

I think they should get the free kick/penalty but should also be booked.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Mar 10, 2020)

Slime said:



			I think they should get the free kick/penalty but should also be booked.
		
Click to expand...

I think they should show how pathetic they look on the big screen in the stadium,Then they have to play the remainder of the match wearing a hat with CHEAT on it.


----------



## Dando (Mar 10, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			I think they should show how pathetic they look on the big screen in the stadium,Then they have to play the remainder of the match wearing a hat with CHEAT on it.
		
Click to expand...

If they’ve dived then they should wear Speedo’s


----------



## fundy (Mar 10, 2020)

Diving panel sits at the end of the weekend, mark them out of 6, average mark is how many games they miss


----------



## Pin-seeker (Mar 10, 2020)

Dando said:



			If they’ve dived then they should wear Peedo’s
		
Click to expand...

Agreed


----------



## Pin-seeker (Mar 10, 2020)

fundy said:



			Diving panel sits at the end of the weekend, mark them out of 6, average mark is how many games they miss 

Click to expand...

Roy Keane heads the panel.


----------



## Slime (Mar 10, 2020)

It looks like Spurs are done.
I wonder who Mourinho's going to blame?


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 10, 2020)

Slime said:



			It looks like Spurs are done.
I wonder who Mourinho's going to blame?
		
Click to expand...

In fairness though he's lost 5 top players to injury out of that squad that was under performing under Pochetino


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 10, 2020)

Slime said:



			It looks like Spurs are done.
I wonder who Mourinho's going to blame?
		
Click to expand...

According to all of the pundits and commentators he is a tactical genius on these occasions so I don't understand how they are not winning 🤔.

Just how long will they keep bringing out that line?

Jensen, I'm thinking of you. Head up mate 👍.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 10, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			According to all of the pundits and commentators he is a tactical genius on these occasions so I don't understand how they are not winning 🤔.

Just how long will they keep bringing out that line?

Jensen, I'm thinking of you. Head up mate 👍.
		
Click to expand...

But in all fairness I thought OGS did a Jose job on City on sunday.

Funny how those tactics are ok when you win.


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 10, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			According to all of the pundits and commentators he is a tactical genius on these occasions so I don't understand how they are not winning 🤔.

Just how long will they keep bringing out that line?

Jensen, I'm thinking of you. Head up mate 👍.
		
Click to expand...

I’d love to know who is saying this because most I listen to have been saying he’s an awful tactician and awful man manager for years.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			But in all fairness I thought OGS did a Jose job on City on sunday.

Funny how those tactics are ok when you win.
		
Click to expand...

Any tactics are fine if you win. If you keep doing the same tactics and lose then maybe they aren't great tactics for that game.

There are multiple reasons for spurs losing this and other games but I am bored of Mourinho being treated like the messiah by pundits and commentators when he has not been close to that for a good few years now. They are talking about historical Mourinho, not current Mourinho. As it always seems to be with him, he is a genius when his team wins, the players are at fault when his team loses.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 10, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Any tactics are fine if you win. If you keep doing the same tactics and lose then maybe they aren't great tactics for that game.

There are multiple reasons for spurs losing this and other games but I am bored of Mourinho being treated like the messiah by pundits and commentators when he has not been close to that for a good few years now. They are talking about historical Mourinho, not current Mourinho. As it always seems to be with him, he is a genius when his team wins, the players are at fault when his team loses.
		
Click to expand...

He’s won trophies at virtually every Club he’s managed and is 4 months in to this job with a squad that isn’t his.

I wouldn’t be happy if we started blaming Ancelotti after just 4 months.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			He’s won trophies at virtually every Club he’s managed and is 4 months in to this job with a squad that isn’t his.

I wouldn’t be happy if we started blaming Ancelotti after just 4 months.
		
Click to expand...

Dull as dishwater though 😂. Pleasure free football.


----------



## Jensen (Mar 10, 2020)

Jose Mourinho, Jose Mourinho 🙄👎


----------



## Rlburnside (Mar 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			He’s won trophies at virtually every Club he’s managed and is 4 months in to this job with a squad that isn’t his.

I wouldn’t be happy if we started blaming Ancelotti after just 4 months.
		
Click to expand...

He won 2 trophy’s (not including charity shield) at Man U, then got the sack the season after,  basically because no C/L and playing boring football. 
Lost the dressing room at Chelsea where players stopped playing for the club especially Hazard ( who carried on kissing the badge after he left and the fans still loved him) 
 His man management of Shaw was poor and certainly didn’t help him play better, he has started doing the same with certain players at Spurs now and it will not help. 
Only realistic chance of a trophy this season was the FA cup, the performance was dire and tactically inept. 

We had little chance tonight as IMO it was lost in the first leg, admittedly we have been hampered massively with injuries but to sit back at home and be so negative was wrong, the only way we could win this tie was to, at least try and be positive and win the home leg, then go and defend on the away leg. 

It’s not going to end well


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 10, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			He won 2 trophy’s (not including charity shield) at Man U, then got the sack the season after,  basically because no C/L and playing boring football.
Lost the dressing room at Chelsea where players stopped playing for the club especially Hazard ( who carried on kissing the badge after he left and the fans still loved him)
His man management of Shaw was poor and certainly didn’t help him play better, he has started doing the same with certain players at Spurs now and it will not help.
Only realistic chance of a trophy this season was the FA cup, the performance was dire and tactically inept.

We had little chance tonight as IMO it was lost in the first leg, admittedly we have been hampered massively with injuries but to sit back at home and be so negative was wrong, the only way we could win this tie was to, at least try and be positive and win the home leg, then go and defend on the away leg.

It’s not going to end well
		
Click to expand...

I don’t doubt anything you say, but to judge any “new” manager after 4 months is ridiculous, your injury list is terrible and he’s had the Jan transfer window in which very few Clubs spent.

You have to give him a chance of at least trying to build his squad and bringing in the players he wants.

You know what you are getting when you bring in Jose and it’s unfair to blame him for all the problems at previous Clubs, at least give him a chance at Spurs because I’d imagine he’ll be your manager for at least the next 18 months.


----------



## Fish (Mar 11, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Jose Mourinho, Jose Mourinho 🙄👎
		
Click to expand...

But you can’t make a silk purse out of a Sow’s ear 😏


----------



## Fish (Mar 11, 2020)

Man City Vs Arsenal is off as some Arsenal players and staff are in self isolation!


----------



## BrianM (Mar 11, 2020)

Fish said:



			Man City Vs Arsenal is off as some Arsenal players and staff are in self isolation!
		
Click to expand...

Just the start of things to come id say.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 11, 2020)

I guess that could be Arsenal games postponed for at least 2 weeks then. This could snowball into quite a disruption to the league season. 

So much for making Mahrez my captain in fantasy football this week, thinking he'd have 2 games.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 11, 2020)

Arsenal have played Pompey and West Ham since the Europa League match, shouldn’t those teams now be in isolation?
Will Arsenal play Brighton this weekend?
All seems a bit hap-hazard to me.


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 11, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Arsenal have played Pompey and West Ham since the Europa League match, shouldn’t those teams now be in isolation?
Will Arsenal play Brighton this weekend?
All seems a bit hap-hazard to me.

Click to expand...

And wolves play olympiakos this week then us Sunday


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 11, 2020)

What are the odds this season will get finished now?

They are saying Serie A will probably not get finished, and so are discussing the following 3 options:

1. Playoffs to sort out winners and relegation
2. Keep table as it stands
3. Cancel season entirely


----------



## Fish (Mar 11, 2020)

Cancel the PL, 2019/20 null and void, irrelevant of current places 😜😂😂💙


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 11, 2020)

Fish said:



			Cancel the PL, 2019/20 null and void, irrelevant of current places 😜😂😂💙
		
Click to expand...

Wishful thinking.


----------



## Rlburnside (Mar 11, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t doubt anything you say, but to judge any “new” manager after 4 months is ridiculous, your injury list is terrible and he’s had the Jan transfer window in which very few Clubs spent.

You have to give him a chance of at least trying to build his squad and bringing in the players he wants.

You know what you are getting when you bring in Jose and it’s unfair to blame him for all the problems at previous Clubs, at least give him a chance at Spurs because I’d imagine he’ll be your manager for at least the next 18 months.
		
Click to expand...

The trouble is he won’t get all the players he wants , maybe 2/3 big money buys but other than that he will have to work with mostly the players already there. 
To start criticizing players publicly before the game will do nothing for the team. 
The players have no direction and look worse than they are, every game has too many changes and formations. 

It’s typical of Jose to bring on a lad I’ve never heard of before and not give Troy Parrott at least 20 minutes, I think it’s because many fans/ pundits were calling him to give him a game and he’s stubborn and think he’s right all the time. 
He will be given next season to turn things around but imo the fans won’t put up with the style of play and it will end with him getting another big payoff.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 11, 2020)

Can coronavirus be tested for before symptoms show? If so, I'd have thought Premier League clubs would have the resources to get their players and staff tested, before self isolating?

I believe Olympiacos game versus Wolves is still going ahead at this point. Interesting, maybe the Olympiscos owner prefers to meet up with Arsenal players rather than his own


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 11, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			What are the odds this season will get finished now?

They are saying Serie A will probably not get finished, and so are discussing the following 3 options:

1. Playoffs to sort out winners and relegation
2. Keep table as it stands
3. Cancel season entirely
		
Click to expand...

My money would be cancel season entirely for all league's 

Fairest way .. can't have teams go down who could get out on last day (Bournemouth for example) or have teams come up who could fade by then (Leeds prob lol)..

Added bonus of Liverpool not winning aswell


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 11, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			My money would be cancel season entirely for all league's

Fairest way .. can't have teams go down who could get out on last day (Bournemouth for example) or have teams come up who could fade by then (Leeds prob lol)..

Added bonus of Liverpool not winning aswell
		
Click to expand...

who earns the CL spots?
Go by last year? Surely Leicester will sue for loss of earnings?


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 11, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			who earns the CL spots?
Go by last year? Surely Leicester will sue for loss of earnings?
		
Click to expand...

Considering the champions League this season will be suspended aswell if this happens then the fairest way is to do last year's as they won't have finished the comp they qualified for.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 11, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Considering the champions League this season will be suspended aswell if this happens then the fairest way is to do last year's as they won't have finished the comp they qualified for.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, the way things are going, maybe there won't even be a Champions League next year.


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 11, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Considering the champions League this season will be suspended aswell if this happens then the fairest way is to do last year's as they won't have finished the comp they qualified for.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about that. I haven't checked all the leagues, but if the teams remaining in the CL for example. How many aren't in the qualification places of their rexpectoce leagues atm. 

Spurs are now out of Europe and not likely to finish top 4. Where as Leicester are. I think all hell wil break loose with lawsuits. 

It was bad enough when sheff utd missed the pl back when it was worth about 20m.

Championship teams now gain. An extra few 100m... 

If I was city. I'd accept the CL ban now though as they may only miss a season at this rate.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 11, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			The trouble is he won’t get all the players he wants , maybe 2/3 big money buys but other than that he will have to work with mostly the players already there.
To start criticizing players publicly before the game will do nothing for the team.
The players have no direction and look worse than they are, every game has too many changes and formations.

It’s typical of Jose to bring on a lad I’ve never heard of before and not give Troy Parrott at least 20 minutes, I think it’s because many fans/ pundits were calling him to give him a game and he’s stubborn and think he’s right all the time.
He will be given next season to turn things around but imo the fans won’t put up with the style of play and it will end with him getting another big payoff.
		
Click to expand...

Please don’t think for one minute I’m trying to tell a Spurs or any fan of any Club what’s they should do etc.

The point I’m trying to make is that the fans have been divided on him since before he arrived and those against him are making the biggest noises. 

The problems at Spurs (from a neutral pov) started before he arrived, you looked 1-3 players away from being a top side under Poch and they/you lost him.

Trust me, you’re way better off having someone of Jose’s calibre that may turn it around than someone like Allardyce etc who is the last type of manager you want!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Mar 11, 2020)

Fish said:



			Cancel the PL, 2019/20 null and void, irrelevant of current places 😜😂😂💙
		
Click to expand...

The title Liverpool nearly won. Wow. Not sure I could stand that. 

Can't see it happening and sure they'll find a way to get the necessary games played to ensure Liverpool are crowned winners (probably behind closed doors) as we all know it's a done deal. Get it done officially so they can't be caught and cancel the rest and submit to UEFA those are our positions and entry into CL next year


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 11, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The title Liverpool nearly won. Wow. Not sure I could stand that.

Can't see it happening and sure they'll find a way to get the necessary games played to ensure Liverpool are crowned winners (probably behind closed doors) as we all know it's a done deal. Get it done officially so they can't be caught and cancel the rest and submit to UEFA those are our positions and entry into CL next year
		
Click to expand...

They should cancel the football, and have playoffs at end of season to decide important positions. Not football ones though, too many people. 

Each club should get 3 of their players to form a Texas Scramble team. Each player must have 6 drives each. Played at Wentworth. No Handicaps. Final league positions decided on how the teams get on in this mini tournament.

In all honesty, it'll be interesting to see what would happen if the league season is called off. Giving the title to Liverpool would seem fair, given they have pretty much won it anyway. However, keeping the league positions as they stand would be tough to take to those in relegation zone or fringes of Europe. I'd imagine, whatever happens, we'll get enough of the league played to make it mathematically certain Liverpool will win title.


----------



## Rlburnside (Mar 11, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Please don’t think for one minute I’m trying to tell a Spurs or any fan of any Club what’s they should do etc.

The point I’m trying to make is that the fans have been divided on him since before he arrived and those against him are making the biggest noises.

The problems at Spurs (from a neutral pov) started before he arrived, you looked 1-3 players away from being a top side under Poch and they/you lost him.

Trust me, you’re way better off having someone of Jose’s calibre that may turn it around than someone like Allardyce etc who is the last type of manager you want!
		
Click to expand...

Mourinho was always going to be a contentious appointment for the Spurs fans, made good sense from a business sense but that has backfired somewhat. 
Mourinho deserves respect for what he has achieved as a manager but could it be that he has not moved on with the way the game is played now. 
This will probably be his last big appointment in the P/L and if it’s not a success it will be difficult for him to come back from that.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 11, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			Mourinho was always going to be a contentious appointment for the Spurs fans, made good sense from a business sense but that has backfired somewhat.
Mourinho deserves respect for what he has achieved as a manager but could it be that he has not moved on with the way the game is played now.
This will probably be his last big appointment in the P/L and if it’s not a success it will be difficult for him to come back from that.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe Mourinho has lost his touch. But, I just wouldn't be so willing to rule him out.

I agree that his last 2 appointments were unusual, given we know the reputation of his tactics, and we know the perception is that United or Spurs do not like to play defensive football (although, I'm sure any fan from any football club would prefer to play successful attacking football over successful defensive football). The Madrid appointment maybe wasn't that unusual at the time, given it was the first big "attacking" club he was a manager of. so there was maybe still a bit of the unknown. And, he was up against one of the greatest club sides to ever play.

However, most recognise that Manchester United have been truly terrible for a number of years. They were playing horrific football long before Mourinho came in, and played with no confidence as a team. Worse still, there were one or 2 in the dressing room with big egos but wouldn't back it up on the pitch regularly. So, given he won the EFL Cup and the Europa League with Manchester United was a massive achievement, in my eyes.

He has gone in to Spurs who were already in a poor position. They are a team that look tired. They have some great players, but I think they've been relying on them too heavily for too long, without freshening things up each season to help the best players out (in my opinion, I'm sure Spurs fans are more in touch with what is going on). Furthermore, their best 3 players were / are Kane, Son and Eriksson. One has left (but had pretty much downed tools before he left) and the other 2 are now injured. That is a massive blow to Spurs, especially as they don't have top players on the bench to replace them.

Carragher's analysis on MNF of Dembele was intriguing this week. Apparently he made the fewest sprints off the ball (zero, which was less than the goalkeeper), and basically hid away all match from helping his mates out. Yet, the few times he did get the ball, his quality was clear. I don't generally agree with criticising players publicly if your a manager. But perhaps Mourinho has been at Dembeles throat for weeks now in training to try and get him to work hard, and he just isn't responding. So, this may be the nuclear option, where he is basically calling him out public, as a last resort to try and get him to buck up his ideas? Or, it may also be a clear message to the owners?

So, I agree with paul that he is being written off by some way too early. Question is though, if he wants to bring in certain players to improve that Spurs side, will he be supported by the owners? If not, then maybe any manager would fail if they can't build a team that they think will be geared up for success. If they do support him, it will be interesting to see how they do.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 11, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			They should cancel the football, and have playoffs at end of season to decide important positions. Not football ones though, too many people.

Each club should get 3 of their players to form a Texas Scramble team. Each player must have 6 drives each. Played at Wentworth. No Handicaps. Final league positions decided on how the teams get on in this mini tournament.

In all honesty, it'll be interesting to see what would happen if the league season is called off. Giving the title to Liverpool would seem fair, given they have pretty much won it anyway. However, keeping the league positions as they stand would be tough to take to those in relegation zone or fringes of Europe. I'd imagine, whatever happens, we'll get enough of the league played to make it mathematically certain Liverpool will win title.
		
Click to expand...

Well if the PL and CL were called to a halt I would expect the lower leagues would have to stop as well.
So relagation  ,promotion would also stop and everybody stays were they are.
Just toss a coin ,we only need two wins so am sure Hendo can win two.
Would make a good telly prog if all the games were sorted on one night.
Not in favour of playoffs that’s why you have a league.
Someone 10 pts clear can miss out because of one game when they have been better all season ,that’s why they are 10pts ahead ,money making that’s all.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 11, 2020)

Fish said:



			Cancel the PL, 2019/20 null and void, irrelevant of current places 😜😂😂💙
		
Click to expand...

Set up a petition 100,000 sign it and it’s gotta be discussed in HOP.


Fish said:



			Man City Vs Arsenal is off as some Arsenal players and staff are in self isolation!
		
Click to expand...

Yet there not testing players for Covid 😳


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 11, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Set up a petition 100,000 sign it and it’s gotta be discussed in HOP.

Yet there not testing players for Covid 😳
		
Click to expand...

How long has the prem been going ?
So cancel all the ones where anyone had a bit of a cold .


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 11, 2020)

If they do play games without fans will season ticket holders and people who bought tickets from the clubs be reimbursed for the games they are being refused entry to.
Bit of a legal minefield I think.
You have purchased something that’s still going on but you can’t watch it.


----------



## davemc1 (Mar 11, 2020)

How big of a thing would City make of this 😭


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1237815395102441472


----------



## Captainron (Mar 11, 2020)

Whoops


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 11, 2020)

Liverpool's goalkeeper having a nightmare here.


----------



## pendodave (Mar 11, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Liverpool's goalkeeper having a nightmare here.
		
Click to expand...

Anyone who has had the misfortune to watch West Ham over the years will be completely unsurprised by this. He's good until he isn't.


----------



## Dan2501 (Mar 11, 2020)

Must be some dodgy backup keepers around if this bloke is the best backup in the world


----------



## fundy (Mar 11, 2020)

I see Rugani of Juve has tested positive for Coronavirus, expect football with be shutting down on the continent


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 11, 2020)

pendodave said:



			Anyone who has had the misfortune to watch West Ham over the years will be completely unsurprised by this. He's good until he isn't.
		
Click to expand...

And people wanted to keep him for one pen where he took his gloves off
Guys terrible


----------



## pokerjoke (Mar 11, 2020)

Can’t believe I forgot about the CL tonight too busy watching the England women’s team.
Any score updates


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 11, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Can’t believe I forgot about the CL tonight too busy watching the England women’s team.
Any score updates
		
Click to expand...

operation unbearable is getting more bearable.


----------



## Fish (Mar 11, 2020)

That’s all folks......


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 11, 2020)

I think Klopp will be delighted.

They can now fully focus on trying to win the Premier League now. No distractions.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Mar 11, 2020)

Plenty of chances for Liverpool in normal time prevented by some good goalkeeping, poor finishing and good blocking. Simeone got his tactics spot on. At least Liverpool have only got two more wins in the PL to get and we can all relax


----------



## Captainron (Mar 11, 2020)

Salah was terrible tonight. Rare bad game for him.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 11, 2020)

Top post on the BBC HYS

2003-04 Arsenal Invincibles
2018-19 Manchester City Incredibles
2019-20 Liverpool Averages


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 11, 2020)

The keeper will get the blame .
But we played well enough to finish it in 90mins.
Some really poor finishing by us , you can’t do that in this league.
There finishing was good and that’s why they won.


----------



## Captainron (Mar 11, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Top post on the BBC HYS

2003-04 Arsenal Invincibles
2018-19 Manchester City Incredibles
2019-20 Liverpool Averages
		
Click to expand...

Man City have never been incredible.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 11, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			The keeper will get the blame .
But we played well enough to finish it in 90mins.
Some really poor finishing by us , you can’t do that in this league.
There finishing was good and that’s why they won.
		
Click to expand...

honest assessment,won’t stop the little digs though esp from the. City fans 😉


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 11, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Plenty of chances for Liverpool in normal time prevented by some *good goalkeeping, poor finishing* and good blocking. *Simeone got his tactics spot on*. At least Liverpool have only got two more wins in the PL to get and we can all relax
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure those two things go hand in hand. Liverpool battered em for 90 mins, crossing your fingers and getting lucky is hardly a tactical masterclass imo. 

The difference was clear. The teams keepers. The last 20 mins were largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things as the contest was over.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 11, 2020)

Captainron said:



			Man City have never been incredible.
		
Click to expand...

They were for Me. 😉👍


----------



## Captainron (Mar 11, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			They were for Me. 😉👍
		
Click to expand...

Oof


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 11, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I'm not sure those two things go hand in hand. Liverpool battered em for 90 mins, crossing your fingers and getting lucky is hardly a tactical masterclass imo.

The difference was clear. The teams keepers. The last 20 mins were largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things as the contest was over.
		
Click to expand...

I agree if his tactics were that good they would not give so many chances away.
We have done that lately , missing that many chances to finish the game bites you on the arse.
We have good goal scorers but our finishing was poor.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 11, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I agree if his tactics were that good they would not give so many chances away.
We have done that lately , missing that many chances to finish the game bites you on the arse.
We have good goal scorers but our finishing was poor.
		
Click to expand...

This describes City to a T, and has been the case for a few years.It proper winds me up.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 11, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			honest assessment,won’t stop the little digs though esp from the. City fans 😉
		
Click to expand...

Or Liverpool fans .
Right Tash put your hand in front of you.
Put up a finger for every time City have won the CL.
When Liverpool fans do this we don’t have enough fingers on one hand.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 11, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Or Liverpool fans .
Right Tash put your hand in front of you.
Put up a finger for every time City have won the CL.
When Liverpool fans do this we don’t have enough fingers on one hand.

Click to expand...

Tell me when I can open my eyes 😖🤔😳😁


----------



## ColchesterFC (Mar 11, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Or Liverpool fans .
Right Tash put your hand in front of you.
Put up a finger for every time City have won the CL.
When Liverpool fans do this we don’t have enough fingers on one hand.

Click to expand...

So just the one finger on each hand for Liverpool fans then as they've only won the CL twice - 2005 and 2019?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 11, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Tell me when I can open my eyes 😖🤔😳😁
		
Click to expand...

Our season will be over in two weeks you can open them then.

Someone asked if Allison has made that much difference, there’s your answer!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 11, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			So just the one finger on each hand for Liverpool fans then as they've only won the CL twice - 2005 and 2019?
		
Click to expand...

If you say so .
Football didn’t exist before then.
But technically correct should have said European Champions ,!and still 2 more than Tashy has on his hand.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 11, 2020)

Unlucky tonight, dominated the game for 90 mins, they never looked like scoring til Adrian gift wrapped them the 1st then we fell apart.

My only Criticism was  we weren’t clinical enough with the chances created although Oblak was superb.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 11, 2020)

Captainron said:



			Salah was terrible tonight. Rare bad game for him.
		
Click to expand...

Shut up and stick to cricket yer big stiff blert 😁😁

I thought he played very well though Atletico had 2 players on him every time he got the ball.


----------



## fundy (Mar 11, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Shut up and stick to cricket yer big stiff blert 😁😁

I thought he played very well though Atletico had 2 players on him every time he got the ball.
		
Click to expand...


if him and Mane werent having a private dick swinging ill score a better goal competition than you, youd have won 3 or 4 nil lol, yet the poor reserve keeper gonna get the blame for a game that shouldve long since been dead


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 11, 2020)

fundy said:



			if him and Mane werent having a private dick swinging ill score a better goal competition than you, youd have won 3 or 4 nil lol, *yet the poor reserve keeper gonna get the blame for a game that shouldve long since been dead*

Click to expand...

Unfortunately that always happens whoever makes the mistake. Alisson doesn’t make that mistake.


----------



## fundy (Mar 11, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Unfortunately that always happens whoever makes the mistake. Alisson doesn’t make that mistake.
		
Click to expand...

yet no one wants to talk of the mistakes Mane Salah and Firminho made, despite all having plenty of credit in the bank


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 12, 2020)

fundy said:



			yet no one wants to talk of the mistakes Mane Salah and Firminho made, despite all having plenty of credit in the bank
		
Click to expand...

We can if you want? I did say  we weren’t clinical enough with the amount of chances we created. Absolutely they should’ve done better, but at 2 nil we’re going through.


----------



## fundy (Mar 12, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			We can if you want? I did say  we weren’t clinical enough with the amount of chances we created. Absolutely they should’ve done better, but at 2 nil we’re going through.
		
Click to expand...

and at 3 or 4 nil your reserve keeper can make a mistake and you still go through, as you should have


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 12, 2020)

fundy said:



			and at 3 or 4 nil your reserve keeper can make a mistake and you still go through, as you should have
		
Click to expand...

In 90mins he had very little to do. Just because We never took our chances in 90 mins doesn’t excuse his mistake. He’s not solely to blame, they all have to take responsibility.

Anyway the CL is overrated 😆😆🤥


----------



## fundy (Mar 12, 2020)

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1583971696

Sounds like empty stadiums going to be the way forward


----------



## PieMan (Mar 12, 2020)

fundy said:



https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1583971696

Sounds like empty stadiums going to be the way forward
		
Click to expand...

And then you get situations like in Paris last night when thousands of fans just congregate outside the ground, and the potential for trouble. Awful for emergency services to cope with that.

No the more sensible solution is to write this season off, relegate the bottom 3, hand CL places to the top 4, put an * by Liverpool, and start again in August........😉😀


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 12, 2020)

PieMan said:



			And then you get situations like in Paris last night when thousands of fans just congregate outside the ground, and the potential for trouble. Awful for emergency services to cope with that.

No the more sensible solution is to write this season off, relegate the bottom 3, hand CL places to the top 4, put an * by Liverpool, and start again in August........😉😀
		
Click to expand...

Not quite 

It would be better to rub this season out

No1 promoted or relegated 

Season starts again in August as normal 

It's a bit of an extreme circumstance

End the season now and villa go down with a less game played if they won Watford would go down on goal difference 

Only way is erase this season entirely 

No champ.league qualifications etc use last year as that comp they won to enter would be suspended aswell


----------



## PieMan (Mar 12, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Not quite

It would be better to rub this season out

No1 promoted or relegated

Season starts again in August as normal

It's a bit of an extreme circumstance

End the season now and villa go down with a less game played if they won Watford would go down on goal difference

Only way is erase this season entirely

No champ.league qualifications etc use last year as that comp they won to enter would be suspended aswell
		
Click to expand...

No make it easy and relegate both Villa and Watford!!

Villa because they're crap and deserve to be where they are. And Watford because they apparently have plans to build a new stadium on my golf club!!!! 😉

And Spurs don't deserve to be playing CL football after the season they've had!! 😂😂


----------



## USER1999 (Mar 12, 2020)

I would keep Watford up if they fulfill their stadium promise though.


----------



## PieMan (Mar 12, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			I would keep Watford up if they fulfill their stadium promise though.
		
Click to expand...

😡🤬😡🤬😂😂


----------



## richart (Mar 12, 2020)

PieMan said:



			And Watford because they apparently have plans to build a new stadium on my golf club!!!! 😉
		
Click to expand...

Don't worry Paul, you will probably get a new line of sight rule so you can drop to the side of the stadium.


----------



## PieMan (Mar 12, 2020)

richart said:



			Don't worry Paul, you will probably get a new line of sight rule so you can drop to the side of the stadium.

Click to expand...

That would be very welcome Rich!!! 

If it does go ahead then rest assured I will be firing golf balls into the stadium on match days, no doubt hitting the back of the net more often than Troy Deeney!!!


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 12, 2020)

Whatever happens to the football this year both in the prem, Europe, world football. I can see there’s enough ammunition for another 200 pages on this forum.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Mar 12, 2020)

Tough decisions for leagues and UEFA ahead. Spain football off for two weeks and given the explosion in the last 48 hours for corona in Spain can see that lasting for a lot longer. No doubt most European leagues will stop as will sport in general. How do you resolve it with Euros looming and a new season due in August. Do the authorities simply write off the 2019/20 season across the board. What about the rest of sport. No golf majors? No Royal Ascot or Wimbledon? Will all records simply have a - against this year


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 12, 2020)

Euro 2021 seems inevitable now with the next Nations League cancelled.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 12, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Tough decisions for leagues and UEFA ahead. Spain football off for two weeks and given the explosion in the last 48 hours for corona in Spain can see that lasting for a lot longer. No doubt most European leagues will stop as will sport in general. How do you resolve it with Euros looming and a new season due in August. Do the authorities simply write off the 2019/20 season across the board. What about the rest of sport. No golf majors? No Royal Ascot or Wimbledon? Will all records simply have a - against this year
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure the golf majors will be fine, well 3 of them at least. No way Donald Trump is going to allow anyone to call off a Major in the USA. This pandemic is important, but in his eyes golf will always be more important.


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 12, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			I think Klopp will be delighted.

They can now fully focus on trying to win the Premier League now. No distractions.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm sure they will be keen to focus on having won the Premier League before Christmas.


----------



## SteveJay (Mar 12, 2020)

[QUOTE Do the authorities simply write off the 2019/20 season across the board. What about the rest of sport. No golf majors? No Royal Ascot or Wimbledon? Will all records simply have a - against this year[/QUOTE]

Lets hope so - would love to see the reaction from all the Liverpool "it's our Year" fans


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 12, 2020)

Lets hope so - would love to see the reaction from all the Liverpool "it's our Year" fans [/QUOTE]

I will give you a reaction .
This says more about you than Liverpool fans!
It’s only football people are losing their lives.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 12, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			He, and Liverpool are desperate to.win the league. The blinkers are on so that anything outside the league doesn't really matter.

He, or Liverpool, simply do not have the ambition of, say Ferguson and United, to aim higher and turn a league into a treble. He, or Liverpool, are not yet at the same level of a Wenger and Arsenal or maybe a Ancelotti and Chelsea to go for a double.

At this stage, they are happy to achieve something that Leicester and Blackburn have done before them. But, fair play to them, they know what they want and they are putting absolutely everything into it to get it. Perhaps this will be their year, where they win the league, and City win everything else.
		
Click to expand...

What an absolute crock.

Didnt Fergie have about 24 goes at a champions league, and was only successful twice - maybe he wasnt trying hard enough, eh?


----------



## Fish (Mar 12, 2020)

Reading that Mendy is in isolation after a family member has been confirmed with the virus. Paramedics in hachem suits at his house for 5hrs, so what now, all the city players put in self isolation?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 12, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Funny. You heavily read between lines to try and make any discussion personal. Poor form really.

All I was saying that, once Liverpool won league, they will have achieved the same as Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City, Blackburn and Leicester. Nothing wrong with that, but that's simply the case.

I was also saying that it seems they do not necessarily have the ambition to push for more, and so not on the same level as sides that have done more in the past. Yet. I agree teams need to rotate. But, when they have built up the biggest lead in history on the league, you'd think they'd have given themselves the perfect opportunity to rest players in league games, and then massively push for every trophy. To become one of the greatest seasons in history of any club.

But, they haven't. And, that is fine, it's up to them. I can see why the desperation to win the league is so high, after so long without one.

Maybe they will get through in Champions League anyway, but I was ONLY saying that Liverpool are not at the same level as what other clubs have achieved in a season in the past. However, after this year, then next year they may well end up having the balls to strive for more. In just over a year time, we could be saying they've had the greatest season in history, or at least achieved as much as anyone else has.

However, people really need to calm down when an opinion is made that they cant handle. I'm not trying to troll here, I only responded to someone elses comment about Liverpool. But, if I was trolling, you rise to the bait perfectly
		
Click to expand...

So if Liverpool win it with say 106 points it will be exactly the same as the ones you've mentioned? 

I wonder why everyone talks records then, as well as trophies?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 12, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			With no disrespect mate, it’s not that simple, hat’s off to any fan travelling to support their team, but is a fan doing it for the first time this season any better than a fan who did for years and years and for whatever reason can’t do it anymore?

Do you lose the tag of “real fan” after missing so many games or seasons or in reverse, do you only get that tag after you’ve travelled to so many games.

The problem with the whole debate/discussion to me, is that it is wrong to label any individual with a particular status, armchair, home supporter only or goes to every game.

A “fan” is a “fan” and everybody’s circumstances are different and who are “we” to sit in judgement.
		
Click to expand...

Pass me a cushion.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 12, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Plenty of chances for Liverpool in normal time prevented by some good goalkeeping, poor finishing and good blocking. Simeone got his tactics spot on. At least Liverpool have only got two more wins in the PL to get and we can all relax
		
Click to expand...

Are you for real?

Tactics spot on when we had 20 odd shots on goal etc. Even our left back should have had a hat-trick last night. Oblak made some great saves and pushed and parried so many, but he was lucky that most went to his own players. How is that tactically astute? We just finished poorly.

Your looking at the result rather than the game itself.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 12, 2020)

PieMan said:



			And then you get situations like in Paris last night when thousands of fans just congregate outside the ground, and the potential for trouble. Awful for emergency services to cope with that.

No the more sensible solution is to write this season off, relegate the bottom 3, hand CL places to the top 4, put an * by Liverpool, and start again in August........😉😀
		
Click to expand...

I'm gonna open a shop up in Manchester called"astersisksareus", I'll be rich.


----------



## Slime (Mar 12, 2020)

United putting in a very professional performance tonight.
Fernandes did what Fernandes does, Ighalo looks to be a great piece of business, (albeit United stumbled into that one), and Fred seems to be growing with every performance.
I know it was 'only' against Lask, but United have secured the result and the tie.
Fringe players for the home leg, (if that goes ahead), and rest the first teamers.
Good job, well done.


----------



## Captainron (Mar 12, 2020)

Arteta has tested positive for Corona now.


----------



## Wolf (Mar 12, 2020)

Arteta tests positive for Corona virus confirmed, be interested in how this pans out now as anyone in contact has been advised to go into isolation including first team squad.. 

Edit Captainron just beat me to it 😂


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 12, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Tough decisions for leagues and UEFA ahead. Spain football off for two weeks and given the explosion in the last 48 hours for corona in Spain can see that lasting for a lot longer. No doubt most European leagues will stop as will sport in general. How do you resolve it with Euros looming and a new season due in August. Do the authorities simply write off the 2019/20 season across the board. What about the rest of sport. No golf majors? No Royal Ascot or Wimbledon? Will all records simply have a - against this year
		
Click to expand...




Wolf said:



			Arteta tests positive for Corona virus confirmed, be interested in how this pans out now as anyone in contact has been advised to go into isolation including first team squad..

Edit Captainron just beat me to it 😂
		
Click to expand...

He shock hands with Moyes at weekend.. so that's got to be our squad out aswell

Cancel the season it's gonna spread


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 12, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			He shock hands with Moyes at weekend.. so that's got to be our squad out aswell

Cancel the season it's gonna spread
		
Click to expand...

It's gonna spread regardless. 

Keep the elderly and week indoors and just get on with life lol


----------



## pokerjoke (Mar 12, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Are you for real?

Tactics spot on when we had 20 odd shots on goal etc. Even our left back should have had a hat-trick last night. Oblak made some great saves and pushed and parried so many, but he was lucky that most went to his own players. How is that tactically astute? We just finished poorly.

Your looking at the result rather than the game itself.
		
Click to expand...

Have you seen Klopp post match interview where he’s bleating that Madrid sat back and didn’t play football.
Basically wanting them to play football and play into your hands.
What a numpty


----------



## Wolf (Mar 12, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			He shock hands with Moyes at weekend.. so that's got to be our squad out aswell

Cancel the season it's gonna spread
		
Click to expand...

The announcement on the club websites basically puts the whole 1st team squad out and states matches will not be able to be played, it also puts the youth squad and academy players out as well. 

Its certainly going to impact the season in some way.


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 12, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			It's gonna spread regardless.

Keep the elderly and week indoors and just get on with life lol
		
Click to expand...

Don't they spend most of their time on this forum anyways 🤣

Stay safe people


----------



## Captainron (Mar 12, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			He shock hands with Moyes at weekend.. so that's got to be our squad out aswell

Cancel the season it's gonna spread
		
Click to expand...

Your squad hasn't been around all season


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 12, 2020)

Wolf said:



			The announcement on the club websites basically puts the whole 1st team squad out and states matches will not be able to be played, it also puts the youth squad and academy players out as well.

Its certainly going to impact the season in some way.
		
Click to expand...

Football should be the last thing thought about right now.

The world's a mess as it is with the stock market suffering. People panic buying 

People dying from this virus 

Football should well and truly know it's place and take a back seat


----------



## Wolf (Mar 12, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Football should be the last thing thought about right now.

The world's a mess as it is with the stock market suffering. People panic buying

People dying from this virus

Football should well and truly know it's place and take a back seat
		
Click to expand...

Whilst I agree with everything you say there and it's all true. It could also be said for some that watching the game is an escape from the miserable world that is currently around us.


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 12, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Whilst I agree with everything you say there and it's all true. It could also be said for some that watching the game is an escape from the miserable world that is currently around us.
		
Click to expand...

Wolf if it was you or I it would be watching 2 rubbish teams let in goals for fun

Would make the world more depressing


----------



## Wolf (Mar 12, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Wolf if it was you or I it would be watching 2 shit teams let in goals for fun

Would make the world more depressing
		
Click to expand...

Oh without a doubt we'd be consoling each other over a pint grateful for the pain to end 😂


----------



## Pin-seeker (Mar 13, 2020)

Looking like all the games will be postponed.


----------



## BrianM (Mar 13, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Looking like all the games will be postponed.
		
Click to expand...

I’d be surprised if the season isn’t cancelled with things ‘supposed’ to get worse.
More important things than football right now.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 13, 2020)

I reckon Euro's will be postponed until next year, meaning leagues can finish in summer.

Given Grand Prix off, Players Championship cancelled, etc. Time to cancel my Sky Sports and BT Sports subscriptions


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 13, 2020)

RB Leipzig goalkeeper has tested positive for Corona Virus. Spurs players have been told there’s no need to self isolate as they never got anywhere near him. 😁


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 13, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Have you seen Klopp post match interview where he’s bleating that Madrid sat back and didn’t play football.
Basically wanting them to play football and play into your hands.
What a numpty
		
Click to expand...

Manager in moaning about the opposition shocker. 

Get your head sewn back on Tony.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 13, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			I reckon Euro's will be postponed until next year, meaning leagues can finish in summer.

Given Grand Prix off, Players Championship cancelled, etc. Time to cancel my Sky Sports and BT Sports subscriptions
		
Click to expand...

One of the lesser issues in all of this but Sky have 9 sports channels,  BT have 2/3 but there will be no sport to show. Lots of reruns to be shown but Sky Sports News will be dreading the amount of empty time they are going to have to fill with nothing to talk about. I'm sure plenty will follow you and be cancelling now TV and other subscriptions.


----------



## ger147 (Mar 13, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			One of the lesser issues in all of this but Sky have 9 sports channels,  BT have 2/3 but there will be no sport to show. Lots of reruns to be shown but Sky Sports News will be dreading the amount of empty time they are going to have to fill with nothing to talk about. I'm sure plenty will follow you and be cancelling now TV and other subscriptions.
		
Click to expand...

Sky Sports News will have to start their countdown to Transfer Deadline Day pretty early this year...😁😁


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 13, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			It's gonna spread regardless.

Keep the elderly and week indoors and just get on with life lol
		
Click to expand...

Damn I thought I was the only one thinking this, haha. Life goes on, stiff upper lip and all that.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Damn I thought I was the only one thinking this, haha. Life goes on, stiff upper lip and all that. 

Click to expand...

We were talking yesterday about what everyone at work is doing this weekend. Not a single person is altering their plans, business as usual. If you listened to yesterdays PM conference, heard the Health advisor this morning on BBC Breakfast that is largely what they said. Use common sense, wash your hands more and carry on. We may end up like the final scene in Carry on up the Khyber but we are not there yet.


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 13, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We were talking yesterday about what everyone at work is doing this weekend. Not a single person is altering their plans, business as usual. If you listened to yesterdays PM conference, heard the Health advisor this morning on BBC Breakfast that is largely what they said. Use common sense, wash your hands more and carry on. We may end up like the final scene in Carry on up the Khyber but we are not there yet.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah. This is the first weekend in a month I may actually get to play golf _and_ football again thanks to the god awful weather. There's no way I'm cancelling that for a stupid virus!


----------



## Wolf (Mar 13, 2020)

Sky News announced Everton have gone into self isolation now due to first team player displaying symptoms.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 13, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Sky News announced Everton have gone into self isolation now due to first team player displaying symptoms.
		
Click to expand...

So, will Stu, LP, LB or DaveMc1 be the first to shoot into the open goal on that one


----------



## Wolf (Mar 13, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			So, will Stu, LP, LB or DaveMc1 be the first to shoot into the open goal on that one 

Click to expand...

I don't think we need wait long to find out... 

In other related news BBC just confirming Chelsea player Calum Hudson-Odoi tested positive for it as well so Chelsea first team will have to isolate.  Also UEFA have suspended Champions and Europarooa leagues


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 13, 2020)

Wolf said:



			I don't think we need wait long to find out...

In other related news BBC just confirming Chelsea player Calum Hudson-Odoi tested positive for it as well so Chelsea first team will have to isolate.  Also UEFA have suspended Champions and Europarooa leagues
		
Click to expand...

Let's face it, they're drip-feeding it to us but all games will be stopped before very long. Euros will be pushed back to next year so that Premier League can finish in the summer I should think.


----------



## Wolf (Mar 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Let's face it, they're drip-feeding it to us but all games will be stopped before very long. Euros will be pushed back to next year so that Premier League can finish in the summer I should think.
		
Click to expand...

No just call the whole season off and start a new one in August, means us Arsenal fans can delude ourselves into forgetting how bad we were and Liverpool don't win the league, that'll do nicely 😂


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 13, 2020)

Wolf said:



			No just call the whole season off and start a new one in August, means us Arsenal fans can delude ourselves into forgetting how bad we were and Liverpool don't win the league, that'll do nicely 😂
		
Click to expand...

Would be hilarious but banter aside I don't see how that would work. Leicester would be fuming that they don't get Champion's League, Spurs would be laughing, and if City's ban is still upheld then are Arsenal suddenly in the Champion's League having finished 5th last season?? Further down, would League One start with 23 teams still or would they bump teams up to fill the gap that Bury left?


----------



## Wolf (Mar 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Would be hilarious but banter aside I don't see how that would work. Leicester would be fuming that they don't get Champion's League, Spurs would be laughing, and if City's ban is still upheld then are Arsenal suddenly in the Champion's League having finished 5th last season?? Further down, would League One start with 23 teams still or would they bump teams up to fill the gap that Bury left?
		
Click to expand...

The sensible way to achieve it  if they did go ahead with cancelling it would be to declare the league standings as they are now. Liverpool are champions, City ban upheld meaning UTD get the extra Champions league spot, Wolves & Sheff Utd get Europa league and the bottom 3 are relegated. That would still upset some fans but it's the fairest way. Then lower leagues instead of play offs  just promote the top 3 automatically for this year.


----------



## Norrin Radd (Mar 13, 2020)

Wolf said:



			The sensible way to achieve it if they do go ahead  with cancelling it would be to declare the league standings as they are now. liverpool are champions, City ban upheld meaning UTD get the extra Champions league spot, Wolves & Sheff Utd get Europa league and the bottom 3 are relegated. That would still upset some fans but it's the fairest way. Then lower leagues instead of play offs  just promote the top 3 automatically for this year.
		
Click to expand...

as a Brighton fan im all over this


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 13, 2020)

Alternatively we could have the most tense cup competition of Rock, Paper Scissors ever to decide CL, relegation and promotition across the divisions. That would be a tv show well worth watching.


----------



## Norrin Radd (Mar 13, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Alternatively we could have the most tense cup competition of Rock, Paper Scissors ever to decide CL, relegation and promotition across the divisions. That would be a tv show well worth watching.
		
Click to expand...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! Wolf for PM


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 13, 2020)

Wolf said:



			The sensible way to achieve it  if they did go ahead with cancelling it would be to declare the league standings as they are now. Liverpool are champions, City ban upheld meaning UTD get the extra Champions league spot, Wolves & Sheff Utd get Europa league and the bottom 3 are relegated. That would still upset some fans but it's the fairest way. Then lower leagues instead of play offs  just promote the top 3 automatically for this year.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think that's fair at all either. First of all Villa have a game in hand right now, in which a win would put them safe. Secondly, West Ham's next 3 games are all relatively tough (on paper anyway) and may have seen them drop into the relegation zone. I don't think anything which sees the games not completed is fair at this stage.


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think that's fair at all either. First of all Villa have a game in hand right now, in which a win would put them safe. Secondly, West Ham's next 3 games are all relatively tough (on paper anyway) and may have seen them drop into the relegation zone. I don't think anything which sees the games not completed is fair at this stage.
		
Click to expand...

Spurs is 3 banker these days.. especially at that ground we undefeated


----------



## Wolf (Mar 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think that's fair at all either. First of all Villa have a game in hand right now, in which a win would put them safe. Secondly, West Ham's next 3 games are all relatively tough (on paper anyway) and may have seen them drop into the relegation zone. I don't think anything which sees the games not completed is fair at this stage.
		
Click to expand...

I disagree totally people's current league positions are an accurate account of the the season so far. If that means a team is relegated with a game in hand yes its harsh but nobody knows if they'd have won it anyway. Upcoming games are irrelevant, people's health is far more important than any sport will ever be. 

I suggested it as its the only logical option if the season cannot restart, the only other option is null and void the whole season which will cause as many complaints. Its easy to say move the Euros and complete it in the summer but at the moment we don't even know what's going to happen after the peak there will be knock on effects, its just as likely right now that the season won't complete at all and that next season could be delayed.


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 13, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Spurs is 3 banker these days.. especially at that ground we undefeated
		
Click to expand...

Well yeah, we are crap, but that's not how the other relegation teams would see it.


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 13, 2020)

Wolf said:



			I disagree totally people's current league positions are an accurate account of the the season so far. If that means a team is relegated with a game in hand yes its harsh but nobody knows if they'd have won it anyway. Upcoming games are irrelevant, people's health is far more important than any sport will ever be.

I suggested it as its the only logical option if the season cannot restart, the only other option is null and void the whole season which will cause as many complaints. Its easy to say move the Euros and complete it in the summer but at the moment we don't even know what's going to happen after the peak there will be knock on effects, its just as likely right now that the season won't complete at all and that next season could be delayed.
		
Click to expand...

Wolf I normally agree but only a total wipe out of the season for me

Not because it suits me but it's only fair way

How can you relegate anyone who's not mathamatically down

How can you promote anyone who could be caught by 3rd place and such 

So now the season suspends

Those games need playing 

We restart April 4th say west ham fixtures are suddenly the "easier" ones and we suddenly have less players injured 

So we put s run in where as we could be on a 4 game losing streak by then 

Just wipe the season out


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Well yeah, we are crap, but that's not how the other relegation teams would see it.
		
Click to expand...

Which is why completely forgetting this season is only way

All champ league done on last season

Just tough luck now


----------



## Reemul (Mar 13, 2020)

Wolf said:



			I disagree totally people's current league positions are an accurate account of the the season so far. If that means a team is relegated with a game in hand yes its harsh but nobody knows if they'd have won it anyway. Upcoming games are irrelevant, people's health is far more important than any sport will ever be.

I suggested it as its the only logical option if the season cannot restart, the only other option is null and void the whole season which will cause as many complaints. Its easy to say move the Euros and complete it in the summer but at the moment we don't even know what's going to happen after the peak there will be knock on effects, its just as likely right now that the season won't complete at all and that next season could be delayed.
		
Click to expand...

What about Sheff Utd who's game in hand puts them in the champions league, their form shows they are likely to win it. There is no fair way.

What does it mean for players out of contract in June as well, if the season is ongoing can they play can they move etc etc.

In my opinion there will be no more games for 12 - 16 weeks after the virus has reached it's peak and there is then not enough time to finish the season.

It's going to be abandonded


----------



## Wolf (Mar 13, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Wolf I normally agree but only a total wipe out of the season for me

Not because it suits me but it's only fair way

How can you relegate anyone who's not mathamatically down

How can you promote anyone who could be caught by 3rd place and such

So now the season suspends

Those games need playing

We restart April 4th say west ham fixtures are suddenly the "easier" ones and we suddenly have less players injured

So we put s run in where as we could be on a 4 game losing streak by then

Just wipe the season out
		
Click to expand...

That's what I'm saying with that kast post the only 2 logical options are declare as it is. Or totally void the whole season, either way there's gonna be plenty of pissed off people.. 

I'm happy with a total reset as and Arsenal fan, it's not likely to make Liverpool fans or other lower league promotion favourites happy. There is no solution that will please people with this, it does need a bit of strength in deciding though.


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 13, 2020)

Wolf said:



			I disagree totally people's current league positions are an accurate account of the the season so far. If that means a team is relegated with a game in hand yes its harsh but nobody knows if they'd have won it anyway. Upcoming games are irrelevant, people's health is far more important than any sport will ever be.

I suggested it as its the only logical option if the season cannot restart, the only other option is null and void the whole season which will cause as many complaints. Its easy to say move the Euros and complete it in the summer but at the moment we don't even know what's going to happen after the peak there will be knock on effects, its just as likely right now that the season won't complete at all and that next season could be delayed.
		
Click to expand...

League so far isn't fair because they've played different teams. Watford haven't played Norwich at home yet, which they would argue is a strong chance of 3 points, plus as I mentioned some teams might have harder games coming up - not to mention the six-pointers between the sides. There is no way it's fair to just end it half-finished, you would have lawsuits left right and centre from teams for loss of earnings etc. I think cancelling it altogether and restarting would be fairer than that. Neither is a great solution though, granted. They will obviously try and resume playing matches as soon as they can in the short term, and teams will play two or three times a week to catch up, possibly extending into the summer.


----------



## Wolf (Mar 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			League so far isn't fair because they've played different teams. Watford haven't played Norwich at home yet, which they would argue is a strong chance of 3 points, plus as I mentioned some teams might have harder games coming up - not to mention the six-pointers between the sides. There is no way it's fair to just end it half-finished, you would have lawsuits left right and centre from teams for loss of earnings etc. I think cancelling it altogether and restarting would be fairer than that. Neither is a great solution though, granted. They will obviously try and resume playing matches as soon as they can in the short term, and teams will play two or three times a week to catch up, possibly extending into the summer.
		
Click to expand...

As i said its merely option 1 or 2. Either way there will likely be law suits.


----------



## GG26 (Mar 13, 2020)

I can see the the Euros being postponed to 2021, with the European domestic leagues restarting in May assuming all is under control by then.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 13, 2020)

I don’t think anyone could sue for anything, especially if it’s on expert advice.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 13, 2020)

Wolf said:



			No just call the whole season off and start a new one in August, means us Arsenal fans can delude ourselves into forgetting how bad we were and Liverpool don't win the league, that'll do nicely 😂
		
Click to expand...

No we will win the league ,but we won’t forget how poor Arsenal are.
Even if we have to wait until summer.
We can have a PL winning Barbecue in the sun.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 13, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I don’t think anyone could sue for anything, especially if it’s on expert advice.
		
Click to expand...

You can still sue an expert .
Even experts only give their opinion ,like doctors.
But where do you get your expert witnesses from?


----------



## 3offTheTee (Mar 13, 2020)

What will happen to this thread if there is no VAR/penalty disputes to discuss? Should be 2/300 less posts weekly!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 13, 2020)

If only all the defences in your teams were as good as the excuses for stopping Liverpool winning the league we wouldn’t be so far ahead.
It’s very amusing.!
There is so much money involved that it will be finished, one way or another.
Coin toss for each game is my call.
Get the captains all in the studios and sort it one Saturday afternoon with no VAR.
I am sure Hendo could win two!!!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 13, 2020)

3offTheTee said:



			What will happen to this thread if there is no VAR/penalty disputes to discuss? Should be 2/300 less posts weekly!
		
Click to expand...

If there is no footy I would think posts will go up.
All the bored people self isolating .


----------



## Qwerty (Mar 13, 2020)

If the season was abandoned how would the place prize money be allocated?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 13, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Alternatively we could have the most tense cup competition of Rock, Paper Scissors ever to decide CL, relegation and promotition across the divisions. That would be a tv show well worth watching.
		
Click to expand...

Sadly, I have to report that a "so-called" liverpool fan rang up TS yesterday and said that they should reconvene a pool panel committee to decide the results of the last so many matches.

We all have them!!


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Mar 13, 2020)

At least the thread title is correct

And without arguement LP was correct there


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			If only all the defences in your teams were as good as the excuses for stopping Liverpool winning the league we wouldn’t be so far ahead.
It’s very amusing.!
There is so much money involved that it will be finished, one way or another.
Coin toss for each game is my call.
*Get the captains all in the studios *and sort it one Saturday afternoon with no VAR.
I am sure Hendo could win two!!!
		
Click to expand...

Don't be silly, no large public gatherings. Can't do that.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 13, 2020)

Right, now some of the knobs have had their say, why not look at sensible options?

IF, and I mean IF it restarts in April and we're over or nearly over the worst of it:-

1. Either play through till end of May/early June, 2-3 games a week, every 3 days, as normal. Cancel the Euros until next year, so to avoid more international fan travel, sack the nations league next year.

Biggest loser - the nations league - lets face it no one is that bothered anyway, never mind understanding it's format.

2. Play 4-5 league games this year, April onwards. Bring the players back 1st August to play the last 4-5 league games and cup games. If all trophies/relegations/promotions won/lost/ by end of August, we have a 2-3 week transfer window in September once clubs know where they are. Cancel the league cup for premiership sides for 1 season, so they can catch up on next seasons league games. Premier league to pay the EFL a (say 50 million purse) to be split between EFL clubs, to compensate.

Biggest loser - league cup for prem sides for 1 season.

Not perfect, but thought up in 10 minutes, lets see someone do better.


----------



## Dando (Mar 13, 2020)

can't they adopt the sunday league favourite of playing double headers to clear the backlog?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 13, 2020)

Dando said:



			can't they adopt the sunday league favourite of playing double headers to clear the backlog?
		
Click to expand...

I think everyone has already played each other once.


----------



## Dando (Mar 13, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think everyone has already played each other once.

Click to expand...

oh boll0x! I forgot about that


----------



## Imurg (Mar 13, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Right, now some of the knobs have had their say, why not look at sensible options?

IF, and I mean IF it restarts in April and we're over or nearly over the worst of it:-

1. Either play through till end of May/early June, 2-3 games a week, every 3 days, as normal. Cancel the Euros until next year, so to avoid more international fan travel, sack the nations league next year.

Biggest loser - the nations league - lets face it no one is that bothered anyway, never mind understanding it's format.

2. Play 4-5 league games this year, April onwards. Bring the players back 1st August to play the last 4-5 league games and cup games. If all trophies/relegations/promotions won/lost/ by end of August, we have a 2-3 week transfer window in September once clubs know where they are. Cancel the league cup for premiership sides for 1 season, so they can catch up on next seasons league games. Premier league to pay the EFL a (say 50 million purse) to be split between EFL clubs, to compensate.

Biggest loser - league cup for prem sides for 1 season.

Not perfect, but thought up in 10 minutes, lets see someone do better.
		
Click to expand...

Not bad for 10 minutes work Pete
Big assumption, as you say,  is that they get back to playing by April.
If this thing is due to peak sometime in May and still be a problem come August then it's a massive headache for the authorities and whichever course they steer will upset and anger someone....


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 13, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Right, now some of the knobs have had their say, why not look at sensible options?

IF, and I mean IF it restarts in April and we're over or nearly over the worst of it:-

1. Either play through till end of May/early June, 2-3 games a week, every 3 days, as normal. Cancel the Euros until next year, so to avoid more international fan travel, sack the nations league next year.

Biggest loser - the nations league - lets face it no one is that bothered anyway, never mind understanding it's format.

2. Play 4-5 league games this year, April onwards. Bring the players back 1st August to play the last 4-5 league games and cup games. If all trophies/relegations/promotions won/lost/ by end of August, we have a 2-3 week transfer window in September once clubs know where they are. Cancel the league cup for premiership sides for 1 season, so they can catch up on next seasons league games. Premier league to pay the EFL a (say 50 million purse) to be split between EFL clubs, to compensate.

Biggest loser - league cup for prem sides for 1 season.

Not perfect, but thought up in 10 minutes, lets see someone do better.
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool fans would do anything to win the league


----------



## Reemul (Mar 13, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Right, now some of the knobs have had their say, why not look at sensible options?

IF, and I mean IF it restarts in April and we're over or nearly over the worst of it:
		
Click to expand...

Look the worst of it will be in about 14 weeks not 4 weeks, it's madness if we think it is going to be better in a few weeks, it is going to be so much worse.

Abandon the season. Declare Liverpool the league winners. Relegate no one, let the top 2 come up and relegate 5 next season and 2 up.

Top 4 get 2cl and next 2 get europa league.

Start season in Aug/ September if we can.

I hate saying this but I support Everton..


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 13, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Right, now some of the knobs have had their say, why not look at sensible options?

IF, and I mean IF it restarts in April and we're over or nearly over the worst of it:-

1. Either play through till end of May/early June, 2-3 games a week, every 3 days, as normal. Cancel the Euros until next year, so to avoid more international fan travel, sack the nations league next year.

Biggest loser - the nations league - lets face it no one is that bothered anyway, never mind understanding it's format.

2. Play 4-5 league games this year, April onwards. Bring the players back 1st August to play the last 4-5 league games and cup games. If all trophies/relegations/promotions won/lost/ by end of August, we have a 2-3 week transfer window in September once clubs know where they are. Cancel the league cup for premiership sides for 1 season, so they can catch up on next seasons league games. Premier league to pay the EFL a (say 50 million purse) to be split between EFL clubs, to compensate.

Biggest loser - league cup for prem sides for 1 season.

Not perfect, but thought up in 10 minutes, lets see someone do better.
		
Click to expand...

Well I'm very much on board with sacking off the Nations League. Most pointless idea ever, purely to glorify international friendlies that nobody wanted.

I think whatever happens the Euros will have to be pushed back a year now. I think that, although they've only postponed two weeks of fixtures now, it will end up being more than that. It's not like the virus will be over in two weeks. Perhaps in two month's time they'll be in position to finish the season - with games every three days on a hectic schedule. Start the following season later as you've mentioned. I'm not sure cancelling the league cup for only Prem teams will be a factor, because surely all the lower leagues will be in the same boat? Or are their games not postponed at the moment? Either way the Prem sides tend to just field reserves in that anyway.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Don't be silly, no large public gatherings. Can't do that.
		
Click to expand...

Only over 500.
We could have team coloured PPE.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 13, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Right, now some of the knobs have had their say, why not look at sensible options?

IF, and I mean IF it restarts in April and we're over or nearly over the worst of it:-

1. Either play through till end of May/early June, 2-3 games a week, every 3 days, as normal. Cancel the Euros until next year, so to avoid more international fan travel, sack the nations league next year.

Biggest loser - the nations league - lets face it no one is that bothered anyway, never mind understanding it's format.

2. Play 4-5 league games this year, April onwards. Bring the players back 1st August to play the last 4-5 league games and cup games. If all trophies/relegations/promotions won/lost/ by end of August, we have a 2-3 week transfer window in September once clubs know where they are. Cancel the league cup for premiership sides for 1 season, so they can catch up on next seasons league games. Premier league to pay the EFL a (say 50 million purse) to be split between EFL clubs, to compensate.

Biggest loser - league cup for prem sides for 1 season.

Not perfect, but thought up in 10 minutes, lets see someone do better.
		
Click to expand...

Far to sensible !
Nobody wants us to be Champions.
Good call though. Gets rid of some crap international’s.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 13, 2020)

Dando said:



			oh boll0x! I forgot about that
		
Click to expand...

Yes but they could be for one game this season and one game next season .
Just needs a sorting out so teams that have not played games this year play each other first.
But relagation is the big problem so maybe not.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2020)

Why not just reconvene from whatever date possible and play all the games. 

Once the league has reconvened and we know the issue is getting better then make arrangements for next season  with the knowledge instead of  guessing. 

Even if it means delaying the start of next season. For the whole football league this seasons fixtures must be completed.


----------



## Swinglowandslow (Mar 13, 2020)

Reemul said:



			Look the worst of it will be in about 14 weeks not 4 weeks, it's madness if we think it is going to be better in a few weeks, it is going to be so much worse.

Abandon the season. Declare Liverpool the league winners. Relegate no one, let the top 2 come up and relegate 5 next season and 2 up.

Top 4 get 2cl and next 2 get europa league.

Start season in Aug/ September if we can.

I hate saying this but I support Everton..
		
Click to expand...


Good a solution as any. It would be wrong to deny Liverpool the title.
It would be wrong to relegate anyone.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 13, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Liverpool fans would do anything to win the league 

Click to expand...

As would you have in the early 90's.


----------



## GB72 (Mar 13, 2020)

Nobody can deny Liverpool the title and so have no issue with that being awarded. 

I like the idea of 2 promoted and no relagation. Start next season early to allow for the extra 4 matches. Play them when most teams go on their trips abroad for pre season warm up trophies as it may still not be adviseable to travel to some of these areas. If necessary, bring the premier league clubs into the cup tournaments a round or 2 later. Champions league spots are more of an issue as there are a few teams laying claim to that last spot. Not sure how you sort that one out. Maybe to reduce fixture congestion you shrink the champions league, get rid of all the preliminary stuff and jut have the top 2 from each nation involved.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 13, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Not bad for 10 minutes work Pete
Big assumption, as you say,  is that they get back to playing by April.
If this thing is due to peak sometime in May and still be a problem come August then it's a massive headache for the authorities and whichever course they steer will upset and anger someone....
		
Click to expand...

The 10 minutes was last night though.


----------



## Canfordhacker (Mar 13, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Sky News announced Everton have gone into self isolation now due to first team player displaying symptoms.
		
Click to expand...

It pains me as an Everton fan, but Gylfi Sigurdson has been self isolating for months.


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 13, 2020)

Reemul said:



			Look the worst of it will be in about 14 weeks not 4 weeks, it's madness if we think it is going to be better in a few weeks, it is going to be so much worse.

Abandon the season. Declare Liverpool the league winners. Relegate no one, let the top 2 come up and relegate 5 next season and 2 up.

Top 4 get 2cl and next 2 get europa league.

Start season in Aug/ September if we can.

I hate saying this but I support Everton..
		
Click to expand...

Two more teams means they'd have to fit in four extra gameweeks next season when the calendar is already squashed.


----------



## Reemul (Mar 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Two more teams means they'd have to fit in four extra gameweeks next season when the calendar is already squashed.
		
Click to expand...

As oppossed to fitting in how many extra games this season for the postponement when we start again


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Mar 13, 2020)

Is there anything to stop UEFA delaying the CL and Europa qualifiers until September and then simply play through every two weeks or so all through the season to catch up. If each league could get this season done by August there could be a two-three break (and a curtailed transfer window) and then start the season a few months later.


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 13, 2020)

Reemul said:



			As oppossed to fitting in how many extra games this season for the postponement when we start again
		
Click to expand...

Right but through the summer there are no other games, no cups etc to fit in. It's just two extra months to get in as many games as they can.


----------



## Wolf (Mar 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Right but through the summer there are no other games, no cups etc to fit in. It's just two extra months to get in as many games as they can.
		
Click to expand...

Assuming the virus has gone by then which is highly unlikely as its not even peaked yet so could still be no games


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 13, 2020)

Qwerty said:



			If the season was abandoned how would the place prize money be allocated?
		
Click to expand...

All the money added up and divided evenly by the 20 teams


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 13, 2020)

I say every club puts forward their hardest player and we have a 20 man Royal Rumble to decide the league table. Entry into the rumble dictated by current league position of course.


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I say every club puts forward their hardest player and we have a 20 man Royal Rumble to decide the league table. Entry into the rumble dictated by current league position of course.
		
Click to expand...

Antonio would beast mode the entire league 

And then blaze his final finish wide


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 13, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Antonio would beast mode the entire league

And then blaze his final finish wide
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately we just sold Wanyama otherwise I'd be backing us for Champion's League, haha. Can't send Dier in, that would be embarrassing.


----------



## Imurg (Mar 13, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			The 10 minutes was last night though. 

Click to expand...

Then, for 12 hours and 10 minutes,  you get a "must do better"...


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 13, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Antonio would beast mode the entire league
		
Click to expand...

Adama Traore says otherwise.


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 13, 2020)

Cancel the season

Get the chants ready ..

'My corna' when Liverpool come to town


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 13, 2020)

Stop the season now, give teams in 1st place the titles.

Bin all promotion and relegation, Bin all European Comps next season.

Start next season with teams in the Leagues they are now in Aug/Sep.

Bin International matches for 2-3 years.

No point thinking about how to play comps overseas for a few years if predictions for the virus coming back next winter are correct.

National Leagues only.

Start Internationals and European Club Comps again in 2-3 years time.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I say every club puts forward their hardest player and we have a 20 man Royal Rumble to decide the league table. Entry into the rumble dictated by current league position of course.
		
Click to expand...

Our lads are all to nice, we would definitely be relegation fodder. I'm another one lumping on to Wolves and Traore. The lads a beast.


----------



## Wolf (Mar 13, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Our lads are all to nice, we would definitely be relegation fodder. I'm another one lumping on to Wolves and Traore. The lads a beast.
		
Click to expand...

Everton could always register big Dunc as a player and get him to represent them.. Arsenal though I'd enter Kolasinac, them Serbs are crazy.. Though Traore is a beast.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 13, 2020)

Really annoyed. Was going to cancel my BT Sport subscription, only to find out they took my monthly payment YESTERDAY. Talk about bad timing for me, great timing for them.

So, guess I'm stuck with it for another month. Silver lining, hopefully they'll keep showing repeats of the Liverpool v Atletico game  . I guess that will be worth £29.99


----------



## Dando (Mar 13, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Really annoyed. Was going to cancel my BT Sport subscription, only to find out they took my monthly payment YESTERDAY. Talk about bad timing for me, great timing for them.

So, guess I'm stuck with it for another month. Silver lining, hopefully they'll keep showing repeats of the Liverpool v Atletico game  . I guess that will be worth £29.99
		
Click to expand...

Are they not showing man u’s 2019/2020 CL campaign?


----------



## Fish (Mar 13, 2020)

😜


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 13, 2020)

Fish said:



View attachment 29364

😜
		
Click to expand...

Stolen and now on the wall at work


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 13, 2020)

All jokes aside 

If the season ends I'd like to see top 2 leagues divide their prize money evenly however take say 10% of the prize money and donate to lower league teams who could fold


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 13, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Everton could always register big Dunc as a player and get him to represent them.. Arsenal though I'd enter Kolasinac, them Serbs are crazy.. Though Traore is a beast.
		
Click to expand...

Now that is thinking outside of the box, I like what you did there. I think half of the blokes would jump out voluntarily once they saw Dunc in there snarling. Out of respect for his age I'd bring him out at that point, mid table is all we deserve this year 😁.

Can't argue with your Arsenal choice. Lucky you have him as the rest could have you in serious trouble 😂


----------



## Fish (Mar 13, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Everton could always register big Dunc as a player and get him to represent them.. Arsenal though I'd enter Kolasinac, them Serbs are crazy.. Though Traore is a beast.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure he’s up to it now 😜


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 13, 2020)

Hearing that league's being told to prepare for no games until September


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 13, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Stop the season now, give teams in 1st place the titles.

Bin all promotion and relegation, Bin all European Comps next season.

Start next season with teams in the Leagues they are now in Aug/Sep.

Bin International matches for 2-3 years.

No point thinking about how to play comps overseas for a few years if predictions for the virus coming back next winter are correct.

National Leagues only.

Start Internationals and European Club Comps again in 2-3 years time.
		
Click to expand...

So you would give us the league, but the likes of Leeds and West Brom wouldnt come up - hardly fair?


----------



## 2blue (Mar 13, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			So you would give us the league, but the likes of Leeds and West Brom wouldnt come up - hardly fair?
		
Click to expand...

Oh....  come...come... come. The Championship has easily been the best league this Season...  why on earth would you want to leave it??


----------



## Imurg (Mar 13, 2020)

Sky quoting an unnamed source saying there's a 75% chance this season wont be completed....
Someone quite high up who demanded anonymity


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 13, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Sky quoting an unnamed source saying there's a 75% chance this season wont be completed....
Someone quite high up who demanded anonymity
		
Click to expand...

Anyone with any degree of common sense knows this is the out come

People just think every day life is more important than health


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 13, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Anyone with any degree of common sense knows this is the out come

People just think every day life is more important than health
		
Click to expand...

Arent you bored, spouting the same crap in 64 different guises every 10 minutes - the rest of us are.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 13, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			So you would give us the league, but the likes of Leeds and West Brom wouldnt come up - hardly fair?
		
Click to expand...

It’s a unique situation, I genuinely don’t think this season will get finished.

Maybe there’ll be financial compensation for teams if the season doesn’t finish.

SPL has a rule were if so many games (I think it’s 30) are played they will have play offs to decide the places.

I believe the PL have no such rule and their rules state if the season isn’t finished it’s simply cancelled. That’s not fair either.


----------



## fundy (Mar 13, 2020)

If and its a big if, things are at the better end of projections, then they should finish "this" season from september then play half a season next year (ie home or away not home and away) then get fully back on track the following season imho


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 13, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s a unique situation, I genuinely don’t think this season will get finished.

Maybe there’ll be financial compensation for teams if the season doesn’t finish.

SPL has a rule were if so many games (I think it’s 30) are played they will have play offs to decide the places.

I believe the PL have no such rule and their rules state if the season isn’t finished it’s simply cancelled. That’s not fair either.
		
Click to expand...

I know.

What would you give Leeds, say? 1 billion? say they never come up for another 25 years?

You only have to look at Sheffield United, who were given compensation, but hardly right when you see how west ham cheated their way out of relegation way back when, at their expense. 

Would you give City 100 million still being at the early stages of the CL, but I'm sure they would rather have a go at winning it in case they dont get a chance with KDB, Sterling and Aguero at their peak, as may not get a chance for another 2-3 years, if not longer if loads of players leave.

Money cant compensate for glory or promotion.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 13, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I know.

What would you give Leeds, say? 1 billion? say they never come up for another 25 years?

You only have to look at Sheffield United, who were given compensation, but hardly right when you see how west ham cheated their way out of relegation way back when, at their expense.

Would you give City 100 million still being at the early stages of the CL, but I'm sure they would rather have a go at winning it in case they dont get a chance with KDB, Sterling and Aguero at their peak, as may not get a chance for another 2-3 years, if not longer if loads of players leave.

Money cant compensate for glory or promotion.
		
Click to expand...

Again though Pete, I’d love for it all to start again and get finished, but going on what “experts” are saying, we’ll still be dealing with this at it’s height in May/June, something will have to give.

UEFA/FIFA will fight their corner, PL their’s and unless they compromise or take drastic action next season somethings got to give.

Unless everything is played to a conclusion, some Club, somewhere will feel badly done to.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 13, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Again though Pete, I’d love for it all to start again and get finished, but going on what “experts” are saying, we’ll still be dealing with this at it’s height in May/June, something will have to give.

UEFA/FIFA will fight their corner, PL their’s and unless they compromise or take drastic action next season somethings got to give.

Unless everything is played to a conclusion, some Club, somewhere will feel badly done to.
		
Click to expand...

Correct, but there are some things quoted that are just farcical options.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 13, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Correct, but there are some things quoted that are just farcical options.
		
Click to expand...

I only had 20 seconds to come up with something.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Mar 13, 2020)

If the season is just finished & the team at the top are crowned champions,then surely teams in relegation positions are relegated & European positions qualify for Europe.
Common sense 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 13, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I only had 20 seconds to come up with something. 

Click to expand...

It showed.


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 13, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			If the season is just finished & the team at the top are crowned champions,then surely teams in relegation positions are relegated & European positions qualify for Europe.
Common sense 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Too much money at stake for it to be that easy imo.

Realistically Liverpool wouldn’t earn much difference in prize money being 1st or 2nd, but finishing 4th or 5th has massive consequences. As does relegation.

norwich look gone, but anyone from 15th downwards could easily get relegated and you could argue a few more above if the had a terrible finish.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Cancel the season

Get the chants ready ..

'My corna' when Liverpool come to town
		
Click to expand...

Dont worry about us PJ87, You'll be sitting  at home waiting for a parcel, whilst yer neighbour parks across your drive as the mighty reds turn up and runs riot at your rented home 👍


----------



## Pin-seeker (Mar 13, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Too much money at stake for it to be that easy imo.

Realistically Liverpool wouldn’t earn much difference in prize money being 1st or 2nd, but finishing 4th or 5th has massive consequences. As does relegation.

norwich look gone, but anyone from 15th downwards could easily get relegated and you could argue a few more above if the had a terrible finish.
		
Click to expand...

My point is you either respect all current league positions or none.
No one as mathematically won or been relegated.
Personally I think the season will end up playing out so no issue.


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 13, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Arent you bored, spouting the same crap in 64 different guises every 10 minutes - the rest of us are.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry it's only rubbish if it won't happen
Which is looks likely to happen

So... No I'm not bored of spouting it. 

Thanks for your concern


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Too much money at stake for it to be that easy imo.

Realistically Liverpool wouldn’t earn much difference in prize money being 1st or 2nd, but finishing 4th or 5th has massive consequences. As does relegation.

norwich look gone, but anyone from 15th downwards could easily get relegated and you could argue a few more above if the had a terrible finish.
		
Click to expand...

The league is only won ( BY ANY TEAM) when its mathematically done and nothing else. Promotion and relegation should only be treated the same as above. 

I do not want liverpool to win the the league now, we  need to earn/make sure ourselves whenever it may be.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Again though Pete, I’d love for it all to start again and get finished, but going on what “experts” are saying, we’ll still be dealing with this at it’s height in May/June, something will have to give.

UEFA/FIFA will fight their corner, PL their’s and unless they compromise or take drastic action next season somethings got to give.

Unless everything is played to a conclusion, some Club, somewhere will feel badly done to.
		
Click to expand...

The fairest and most practical way to conclude the season  is to reconvene the season and every one play out the games. No team wouldve  benefited from PL/FA decisions. 

For the record, I want liverpool to play as many games as it takes to win the league.

Shove her asterisk were the sun dont shine.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2020)

Fish said:



View attachment 29364

😜
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂 enjoy playing the kids finishing 40 plus pts behind the Champions 👍


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			The fairest and most practical way to conclude the season  is to reconvene the season and every one play out the games. No team wouldve  benefited from PL/FA decisions.

For the record, I want liverpool to play as many games as it takes to win the league.

Shove her asterisk were the sun dont shine.
		
Click to expand...

I think we all want that mate, the question is, “What do they do if it can’t”? Or “How long do you wait to reconvene”?


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			The league is only won ( BY ANY TEAM) when its mathematically done and nothing else. Promotion and relegation should only be treated the same as above.

I do not want liverpool to win the the league now, we  need to earn/make sure ourselves whenever it may be.
		
Click to expand...

I wasn't saying hand you a title by default. 
Simply stating that the ramifications of the rpize money you'd get would be inconsequential. 

As opposed to other positions where one spot makes a whole difference.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 13, 2020)

jobr1850 said:



			Compensation? 

Premier leagues gets about £3billion a season from TV here and overseas, if the league doesn't finish I don't think the TV boys will be paying up.
Could be some serious financial issues ahead, particularly for the small clubs further down the money tree.
		
Click to expand...

Seeing as how the PL has already stated what each team gets for each finishing position it could get pooled and shared equally amongst all teams.

The PL already have this season’s money.


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 13, 2020)

jobr1850 said:



			They have the money but there will be redress if they breach the contract by not playing the agreed amount of games.
TV companies won't pay for something they are not getting.
		
Click to expand...

They'll need to be careful though. If they genuinely feel they are due a refund for not having a contract honoured and sue for it. They would literally be encouraging all their customers to sue for refunds for that exact same reason.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2020)

jobr1850 said:



			When do you reconvene Stu?
What about transfer windows? Players contracts expiring before the re start date?

Whatever they do decide, I bet someone feels hard done by and does that open up legal challenges?
		
Click to expand...

I'd say 2nd week in April providing situation eases but make preparations for 1st week in June to reconvene .... Leave transfer window open til 1st Nov or 12 weeks from last game of the season whatever the date is. Players contracts to run 4weeks past the last game of season to protect both players and clubs....I dont think any club could complain or feel hard done by if the fixtures are carried on from whenever the clubs/FA/PL feels it safe to do so. 

I cant think of a fairer way to finish the  league.


----------



## IanM (Mar 13, 2020)

There will be something deep in the sponsorship agreements about this sort of issue ....  unless someone hasn't done their job properly 

Could all be back playing in May... or September!  Or whenever.   

Just takes a bit of planning once folk know what's what.   Currently it's all just speculation


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 13, 2020)

jobr1850 said:



			They have the money but there will be redress if they breach the contract by not playing the agreed amount of games.
TV companies won't pay for something they are not getting.
		
Click to expand...

It’s split 3 Parts:
Part 1. All Clubs get equal share, - Last season £79mil.

Part 2. Money based on finishing position, Last season £38mil for top down to about £2mil for last.

Part 3. TV live games, Last Season £33mil down to £12mil.

If the PL cancel their League, Part 1 is guaranteed, Part 2 could be pooled and shared amongst all Clubs equally. 
Part 3 could be less as less games shown live.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 13, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Sorry it's only rubbish if it won't happen
Which is looks likely to happen

So... No I'm not bored of spouting it.

Thanks for your concern
		
Click to expand...

Whether it happens or not, we'll probably be bored to death in the meantime by you.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2020)

Dont forget, the football calendar has been adjusted for a an oil rich country to host a WC, surely it can be rearranged to accommodate  a viral pandemic?


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 13, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Whether it happens or not, we'll probably be bored to death in the meantime by you.

Click to expand...

Ah I'm glad you could really bring something to the thread .

Enjoy the break in sport .. maybe read up on some interesting topics to save yourself wasting time wading into debates without a clue 👍


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 13, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I think we all want that mate, the question is, “What do they do if it can’t”? Or “How long do you wait to reconvene”?
		
Click to expand...

The PL can do whatever they want, they hold the aces. 

I'm pretty certain UEFA do not want to cancel their flagship event. I'd say the CL is bigger than the UEFA Euro's.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Mar 13, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Whether it happens or not, we'll probably be bored to death in the meantime by you.

Click to expand...

At least WE’’LL have your top draw banter to get us over it. 
Get over yourself La.


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 13, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			If the season is just finished & the team at the top are crowned champions,then surely teams in relegation positions are relegated & European positions qualify for Europe.
Common sense 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone would be saying "just make Liverpool champions" if they weren't 20 odd points ahead or whatever it is. If there was 1 point in it it's whole different story. For Villa say to go down by a point and having a game in hand would be unbelievable harsh, when compared to saying City don't win the league this year when they could have mathematically made up a 20 points deficit.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 13, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Ah I'm glad you could really bring something to the thread .

Enjoy the break in sport .. maybe read up on some interesting topics to save yourself wasting time wading into debates without a clue 👍
		
Click to expand...

I'd carry on arguing with you, bot it would bore everyone else then, so I'll leave it there. Point made by me, have a look at how many points youve made in the last 24 hours saying the same stuff.

Right, off to carry on with a good book - "First to fight" by Roger Moorhouse, about the Polish theatre of WWII, very interesting. 

Ni-night, petal.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			The PL can do whatever they want, they hold the aces.

I'm pretty certain UEFA do not want to cancel their flagship event. I'd say the CL is bigger than the UEFA Euro's.
		
Click to expand...

You’d hope the PL could, but I don’t think they actually do, don’t UEFA/FIFA dictate when games can and can’t be played during the season and by who?

It’s not just the CL though, you’ve also got internationals and Stadia booked for other events, ie US Baseball at Spurs place in June, other grounds for Concerts etc. Could get very messy.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Mar 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think anyone would be saying "just make Liverpool champions" if they weren't 20 odd points ahead or whatever it is. If there was 1 point in it it's whole different story. For Villa say to go down by a point and having a game in hand would be unbelievable harsh, when compared to saying City don't win the league this year when they could have mathematically made up a 20 points deficit.
		
Click to expand...

Hard to disagree with that,& Liverpool definitely deserve it one way or the other. 
But if the season doesn’t finish & no one is relegated then obviously Leeds don’t go up & get the biggest payday in football


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 13, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Hard to disagree with that,& Liverpool definitely deserve it one way or the other.
But if the season doesn’t finish & no one is relegated then obviously Leeds don’t go up & get the biggest payday in football
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, I still think they'll find a way to finish this season, even if it's much later in the year and delays the start of the following season. There are just too many stumbling blocks and pitfalls to ending it without finishing.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Mar 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, I still think they'll find a way to finish this season, even if it's much later in the year and delays the start of the following season. There are just too many stumbling blocks and pitfalls to ending it without finishing.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 14, 2020)

Could go in a couple of threads, but fair play to Brighton. 
They’re gonna pay all casual staff projected wages irrespective of games going ahead or not.


----------



## Fish (Mar 14, 2020)

I think those that are talking about reconvening at the end of April are kidding themselves, this disease for us here is in its infancy and will only spread more in the coming weeks creating more and longer periods from attending sporting events and those actual events across the board being temporary suspended or even cancelled!

As a country we are possibly the least effected currently in Europe, but that was the same situation for those that are in complete lock down now some weeks ago, so, making assumptions of ‘end of April’ to reconvene is suggesting we’ll be in a better position by then, but personally I think we’ll be worse, and as the weather warms up I believe this disease has the ability to spread even more easily!

So, until numbers stabilize or start reducing there can be no target to reconvene as the numbers are currently growing, but end of April is very ambitious imo.

Personally I think the end of this season is finished, it won’t reconvene, even behind closed doors, I think it will be completed when the new season would normally start, late August or even September with that forthcoming 20/21 season being radically adjusted to get back on track for 21/22.

Will it be ideal, no, will it suit everyone, no, is it the fairest way to play it out, yes.


----------



## garyinderry (Mar 14, 2020)

Players who are self isolating wont be fit for the start of April even if by some miracle the disease disappeared. 


Long way off as the cases continue to rise.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Mar 14, 2020)

And to top it off,Mrs Browns boys will be replacing MOTD 😫😫😫


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 14, 2020)

If all football is cancelled for the rest of the season. City will be the only team to of won a trophy this season #makinghistory. 😂

Adios amigos


----------



## DaveR (Mar 14, 2020)

jobr1850 said:



			Compensation? 

Premier leagues gets about £3billion a season from TV here and overseas, if the league doesn't finish I don't think the TV boys will be paying up.
Could be some serious financial issues ahead, particularly for the small clubs further down the money tree.
		
Click to expand...

Could be a load of flash cars getting sold off cheaply 👍


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 14, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			If all football is cancelled for the rest of the season. City will be the only team to of won a trophy this season #makinghistory. 😂

Adios amigos
		
Click to expand...

While Liverpool have won 2😁😁


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 14, 2020)

Bearing in mind European football is being interrupted to allow for Qatar 2022, wouldnt this be the perfect time to adjust the next 2 seasons to run Jan to October? 

That would give the FA/UEFA enough time to finish all league and cup games.

This isnt just about the PL, theres bigger concerns in the lower leagues.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Bearing in mind European football is being interrupted to allow for Qatar 2022, wouldnt this be the perfect time to adjust the next 2 seasons to run Jan to October?

That would give the FA/UEFA enough time to finish all league and cup games.

*This isnt just about the PL*, theres bigger concerns in the lower leagues.
		
Click to expand...

I know Pete said some of the “ideas/proposals” I listed were farcical, 

But like you say this isn’t just about the PL and any knock on effects could interfere with World Football, one simple one is the Womens Euro’s are meant to be held in 2021 in England so that could cause problems for grounds etc, but maybe this does give us the chance to be a bit radical and think outside the box reference scheduling/seasons/comps etc.

Like you say a 2-3 year period of adjustment.


----------



## 4LEX (Mar 14, 2020)

Fish said:



			As a country we are possibly the least effected currently in Europe, but that was the same situation for those that are in complete lock down now some weeks ago, so, making assumptions of ‘end of April’ to reconvene is suggesting we’ll be in a better position by then, but personally I think we’ll be worse, and as the weather warms up I believe this disease has the ability to spread even more easily!
.
		
Click to expand...

That's not quite true. Heat over 25 degrees will help kill it quicker from surfaces and less people with seasonal colds will also reduce the threat of passing it on.

However I agree theres no way any football will be played in April. This will peak in April/May so theres no chance of the season being played out unless over the summer. Theres only two realistic options;

Euro 2020 is postponed and each domestic league plus European comps are played over the summer with empty stadiums. That would be utterly pointless and cause chaos for next season.

Or the by far the most sensible is you simply null and void the season and all cups. It would benefit some teams who struggling and punish those at the top but this is a once in a lifetime crisis. Football is small fry in comparison. You could possibly work out some sort of handicap for the start of next season to make it fairer. 

I feel sorry for Liverpool in all of this. They've gone from being on the cusp of the greatest season in history, to losing the Invincible chance, getting knocked out of both cups and the joy from a well deserved title taken away. Whatever happens no one will remember this season for anything other than the Cornavirus situation.


----------



## 4LEX (Mar 14, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			But like you say this isn’t just about the PL and any knock on effects could interfere with World Football, one simple one is the Womens Euro’s are meant to be held in 2021 in England so that could cause problems for grounds etc, but maybe this does give us the chance to be a bit radical and think outside the box reference scheduling/seasons/comps etc.
		
Click to expand...

I think most non league grounds could cope with the Womens Euro's to be fair.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2020)

4LEX said:



			I think most non league grounds could cope with the Womens Euro's to be fair.
		
Click to expand...

Except Old Trafford already chosen for opener and Wembley sold out 90,000 for England match v Germany in November.

I agree some matches could be played at some smaller grounds, but preparations are already in place including dates, Hotels and training facilities booked for the Teams to use.


----------



## 4LEX (Mar 14, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Except Old Trafford already chosen for opener and Wembley sold out 90,000 for England match v Germany in November.

I agree some matches could be played at some smaller grounds, but preparations are already in place including dates, Hotels and training facilities booked for the Teams to use.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair that was only because most of those tickets were freebies as a PR stunt. The average in the WPL is 3,500.

Euro 2020 is only using Wembley 5 times in the whole tournament and London has a fair few hotels I believe! Theres more than enough world class training facilities and stadiums to play the Women's tournament no problem


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2020)

4LEX said:



			To be fair that was only because most of those tickets were freebies as a PR stunt. The average in the WPL is 3,500.

Euro 2020 is only using Wembley 5 times in the whole tournament and London has a fair few hotels I believe! Theres more than enough world class training facilities and stadiums to play the Women's tournament no problem 

Click to expand...

Here’s the list of venues and as you can see it’s not simply a case of playing them anywhere as the ground has to meet UEFA requirements:
Add in spectators, TV/Media, Emergency services, it’s not that straightforward.

The following stadiums will host matches in the tournament:

Old Trafford, Manchester – opening match only
Bramall Lane, Sheffield
Brentford Community Stadium, London
Brighton Community Stadium, Brighton and Hove
Leigh Sports Village, Leigh
Manchester City Academy Stadium, Manchester
New York Stadium, Rotherham
Stadium MK, Milton Keynes
St Mary's Stadium, Southampton
Wembley Stadium, London – final only
Meadow Lane in Nottingham and London Road in Peterborough were initially included on the list of stadiums when the Football Association submitted the bid to host the tournament. These were changed with the City Ground in Nottingham and St Mary's in Southampton due to UEFA requirements.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 14, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I know Pete said some of the “ideas/proposals” I listed were farcical, 

But like you say this isn’t just about the PL and any knock on effects could interfere with World Football, one simple one is the Womens Euro’s are meant to be held in 2021 in England so that could cause problems for grounds etc, but maybe this does give us the chance to be a bit radical and think outside the box reference scheduling/seasons/comps etc.

Like you say a 2-3 year period of adjustment.

Click to expand...

To be fair they were 💩 😁😁

One of the other issues thats not been mentioned is how much money will be lost (mainly by us punters) in the gambling industry. I'd guess there be upwards of £200m lost if all pro football is cancelled null and void.

I didnt realise West Ham arent allowed to play football at their rented home after a certain date in may due to other commitments theyve got concerts etc.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			To be fair they were 💩 😁😁

One of the other issues thats not been mentioned is how much money will be lost (mainly by us punters) in the gambling industry. I'd guess there be upwards of £200m lost if all pro football is cancelled null and void.

I didnt realise West Ham arent allowed to play football at their rented home after a certain date in may due to other commitments theyve got concerts etc.
		
Click to expand...

That’s all I’m saying mate, as Football fan’s we get a bit blinkered and sometimes have to realise that the FA and PL are not everybody elses priority.

I’m sure Spurs have got Baseball, Concerts and NFL this year.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 14, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			That’s all I’m saying mate, as Football fan’s we get a bit blinkered and sometimes have to realise that the FA and PL are not everybody elses priority.

I’m sure Spurs have got Baseball, Concerts and NFL this year.
		
Click to expand...

Its understandable that we do get blinkered etc but on this occasion, to null and void this season would hamper more teams especially down the lower leagues, Rotherham, Sunderland,Coventry, Exeter to name a very few. 

Promotion for those sides not only helps competitively but financially. Then you've got Leeds and West Brom plus 1 from another 7 sides likely to go up through the play offs etc. 

Anyway, am I the only one whose wondering wtf I'm going to do without football and sport for the next 4wks?


----------



## Fade and Die (Mar 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Dont worry about us PJ87, You'll be sitting  at home waiting for a parcel, whilst yer neighbour parks across your drive as *the mighty reds turn up and runs riot *at your rented home 👍
		
Click to expand...

Never ever happened mouser and you know it 😉


----------



## richart (Mar 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Its understandable that we do get blinkered etc but on this occasion, to null and void this season would hamper more teams especially down the lower leagues, Rotherham, Sunderland,Coventry, Exeter to name a very few.

Promotion for those sides not only helps competitively but financially. Then you've got Leeds and West Brom plus 1 from another 7 sides likely to go up through the play offs etc.

Anyway, am I the only one whose wondering wtf I'm going to do without football and sport for the next 4wks?
		
Click to expand...

Cleaned both cars today instead of Stoke at home. When we played them away neither side had a shot on target, so perhaps not such a bad day. Could have the cleanest cars on the road if season is over.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 14, 2020)

richart said:



			Cleaned both cars today instead of Stoke at home. When we played them away neither side had a shot on target, so perhaps not such a bad day. Could have the cleanest cars on the road if season is over.
		
Click to expand...

😁😁 I'd wash the whole streets cars if it meant not watching Stoke 😂


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 14, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Its understandable that we do get blinkered etc but on this occasion, to null and void this season would hamper more teams especially down the lower leagues, Rotherham, Sunderland,Coventry, Exeter to name a very few.

Promotion for those sides not only helps competitively but financially. Then you've got Leeds and West Brom plus 1 from another 7 sides likely to go up through the play offs etc.

Anyway, am I the only one whose wondering wtf I'm going to do without football and sport for the next 4wks?
		
Click to expand...

Watched extra Telly today/evening, already sick of it😂😂

I’d prefer the season to finish as as you say it’s the only fair and proper way to do it.

Sky News “expert”  saying UEFA have a meeting on Tuesday (video conference) were apparently they will make a decision on ALL European Comps for the remainder of this season, the priority being the Euros.

Our Government to make possible announcements on crowds mon/tues and then PL Clubs to video conference on thurs to discuss way forward/fall out from Government and UEFA mtgs.

Apparently they’d prefer full agreement of 20 Clubs but it only needs 14 Clubs for a majority decision on any vote.

Also as you say it has knock on effects for local business’s, played with a lad today who owns a Cafe near the Stadium of Light and he said even cancelling Sunderland home games and concerts will have a big effect on his turnover.


----------



## Fish (Mar 14, 2020)

In the event of a definitive stop with played at least 75% of league matches- will be outlined: 

Title of the current season assigned to Liverpool, promoted Leeds and WBA from Championship, no relegation and EPL 2020/21 with 22 teams.


----------



## howbow88 (Mar 14, 2020)

Such a shame that Liverpool's first league win in 30 years is going to be utterly tainted...


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 14, 2020)

Fish said:



			In the event of a definitive stop with played at least 75% of league matches- will be outlined: 

Title of the current season assigned to Liverpool, promoted Leeds and WBA from Championship, no relegation and EPL 2020/21 with 22 teams.
		
Click to expand...

What about leagues 1,2 and the national league?


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 14, 2020)

howbow88 said:



			Such a shame that Liverpool's first league win in 30 years is going to be utterly tainted...



Click to expand...

🙄🙄 

Having been the best team to date and being absolutely miles ahead it's far from tainted.


----------



## Slime (Mar 15, 2020)

Whatever happens with regards to Liverpool and how they may/may not win the Premier League, I will hold my hands up in appreciation of how they've played this season and totally dominated the EPL from start to finish.
Congrats to them, they've been brilliant.


Now I need a shower!


----------



## howbow88 (Mar 15, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			🙄🙄

Having been the best team to date and being absolutely miles ahead it's far from tainted.
		
Click to expand...

If the fixtures are not completed, it definitely will be. In the history books, it will show Liverpool top of the league with an asterisk next to their name, with an explanation along the lines of 'Title awarded after league season was cut short due to worldwide health issues.' 

No title winning moment, no champagne in the dressing room, no open top bus parade, etc. 

Like it or not, this season will now likely not be remembered as 'the one where Liverpool finally buried the ghosts of the past,' but 'the one that was cut short due to coronavirus.'


----------



## 4LEX (Mar 15, 2020)

The season will be written off. It only needs 14/20 votes.

The teams in the relegation zone will vote that, the teams in or around it will do the same too. Mid table sides won't care and will want it written off to rest, recover and prepare for next season without a summer of games. That'll be enough. The only teams that will want it finished are Liverpool for the title, Leicester for CL football, Man Utd as they might sneak 4th and Wolves as they have a chance of 4th if unlikely.


----------



## Fish (Mar 15, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			What about leagues 1,2 and the national league?
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, unlike some on here I don’t have a mole in the FA HQ, or should I say, couldn’t find anything about the lower leagues on Google 😏 

I’d assume, it would based on the same premise as the PL & Championship.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 15, 2020)

Maybe games remaining to be played are played as both the last of this season and the first of next season. With no promotion or relegation.  They don’t count double points but the result counts for both season 2019/20 and 2020/21 with compensation being paid to the top two of The Championship for not being promoted. Tough ... however times will become very,very tough for very many.


----------



## Fade and Die (Mar 15, 2020)

If we're in a good place, and it's 100% under control, Play whats left June/July........
Start next season Mid Sept....no panic, easily done,more important things to worry about than Footie..

If we're still in a bad place come summer...it's a no Brainer...this season get's voided...
City Keep LC,only fair.....

Sorry Red Scouse....when yer lucks out it's out....... 
	
	
		
		
	


	





Joint Fund to be set up....Gov/FA/PREM/Sky/BT.....help lower league clubs thru any financial difficulties,
even by way of No interest Loans...


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 15, 2020)

howbow88 said:



			If the fixtures are not completed, it definitely will be. In the history books, it will show Liverpool top of the league with an asterisk next to their name, with an explanation along the lines of 'Title awarded after league season was cut short due to worldwide health issues.' 

No title winning moment, no champagne in the dressing room, no open top bus parade, etc. 

Like it or not, this season will now likely not be remembered as 'the one where Liverpool finally buried the ghosts of the past,' but 'the one that was cut short due to coronavirus.'
		
Click to expand...

Luckily, I've been celebrating our title win since Boxing Day so i've not missed much. There'll be no reason for me to look into the history books, my memory is good enough to remember this seasons performances and only dropping 5pts to date  😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 15, 2020)

Fish said:



			Sorry, unlike some on here I don’t have a mole in the FA HQ, or should I say, couldn’t find anything about the lower leagues on Google 😏 

I’d assume, it would based on the same premise as the PL & Championship.
		
Click to expand...

Well, you know the usual rules, unless you can prove your point with facts then your post is irrelevant 🤭


----------



## Fish (Mar 15, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Well, you know the usual rules, unless you can prove your point with facts then your post is irrelevant 🤭
		
Click to expand...

Wow, some people have a lot of irrelevant post counts on here then 😳😜


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 15, 2020)

Fish said:



			Wow, some people have a lot of irrelevant post counts on here then 😳😜
		
Click to expand...

Rules are rules Fishy 😂😂


----------



## ColchesterFC (Mar 15, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Rules are rules Fishy 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Can you prove that with facts please?


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 15, 2020)

So, I really don't see this season starting again, certainly in 3 weeks. 

I dont see is being feasible finishing it in summer now. As others have said, stadiums will be booked for other events most likely. And, importantly, many player contracts run out by June. I can't see how clubs can make them sign an extension for a few months just to finish season out, if they dont want to.

I don't like idea of finishing this season at start of next season. In all honesty, once this all subsides, I think most of us will just want a fresh start and try and get back to some sort of normality?

I jokingly said to just cancel the season. But, perhaps they should just leave the table as it stands. Liverpool champions. Nobody could argue with that really. To avoid the pit falls of promotion relegation, how about next season, for one season only, we have Premier League A and Premier League B. The top 14 teams in current league would be in PL A. The bottom 6, and top 8 of Championship would be in PL B. Then, top 6 of PL B would be in the back to normal PL for the next season?

Still difficulty with European positions. But, if UEFA could discuss this with all leagues, maybe they can open up more spots for Europe next season. Maybe top 5 or 6 for english teams into Champuins League. The format could be adjusted, maybe groups of 3 instead of 4, top 1 to get through, so that the number of fixtures does not go through the roof. That way, clubs currently fighting for european positions would get in for that.

I guess there are tons of things that could be done. But, if they don't start playing football again in 3 weeks, I honestly think this season is already over.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 15, 2020)

Players contracts running out in June is really not an issue at PL levels. Div 1 and 2, yes absolutely but not PL. Think about how many players in a teams squad are allowed to get to that stage, very few, and then think of the number of games they are playing for that team. For every Aaron Ramsey there are 10-20 others who the clubs can't move on due to high wages and they are stuck with, sitting on the bench or up in the stands. We have 5 or 6 at Everton who will never play in the first team again, we can't sell and their contracts will just run down. None of those players are relevant to the 1st team playing squad. 

At the lower levels, as these are extraordinary times then I see no reason why the EFL do not bring in special dispensation regarding temporary contracts for the short term to retain players. If not you are effectively allowing an additional transfer window in the season albeit for players only out of contract. 

The euros can be delayed a year, league seasons extended into that period if required. If we do not restart football again in time to fit in that gap then it gets more complicated. One step at a time though, no need for dramatic decisions at this stage.

I think the issue of players contracts running out is the least difficult of the conundrum to resolve.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 15, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			So, I really don't see this season starting again, certainly in 3 weeks. 

I dont see is being feasible finishing it in summer now. As others have said, stadiums will be booked for other events most likely. And, importantly, many player contracts run out by June. I can't see how clubs can make them sign an extension for a few months just to finish season out, if they dont want to.

I don't like idea of finishing this season at start of next season. In all honesty, once this all subsides, I think most of us will just want a fresh start and try and get back to some sort of normality?

I jokingly said to just cancel the season. But, perhaps they should just leave the table as it stands. Liverpool champions. Nobody could argue with that really. To avoid the pit falls of promotion relegation, how about next season, for one season only, we have Premier League A and Premier League B. The top 14 teams in current league would be in PL A. The bottom 6, and top 8 of Championship would be in PL B. Then, top 6 of PL B would be in the back to normal PL for the next season?

Still difficulty with European positions. But, if UEFA could discuss this with all leagues, maybe they can open up more spots for Europe next season. Maybe top 5 or 6 for english teams into Champuins League. The format could be adjusted, maybe groups of 3 instead of 4, top 1 to get through, so that the number of fixtures does not go through the roof. That way, clubs currently fighting for european positions would get in for that.

I guess there are tons of things that could be done. But, if they don't start playing football again in 3 weeks, I honestly think this season is already over.
		
Click to expand...

As it stands we've got 5 months until the proposed start to next season. Theres potentially 4 weeks worth of games to be played, playing sat/sun/tues/weds/sat/sun.  There should be no rush to make the right decision. Even if we get to June, it's got to be finished.

It's unfair on too many clubs to not finish the season across all leagues inc scotland and europe.


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 15, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Players contracts running out in June is really not an issue at PL levels. Div 1 and 2, yes absolutely but not PL. Think about how many players in a teams squad are allowed to get to that stage, very few, and then think of the number of games they are playing for that team. For every Aaron Ramsey there are 10-20 others who the clubs can't move on due to high wages and they are stuck with, sitting on the bench or up in the stands. We have 5 or 6 at Everton who will never play in the first team again, we can't sell and their contracts will just run down. None of those players are relevant to the 1st team playing squad.

At the lower levels, as these are extraordinary times then I see no reason why the EFL do not bring in special dispensation regarding temporary contracts for the short term to retain players. If not you are effectively allowing an additional transfer window in the season albeit for players only out of contract.

The euros can be delayed a year, league seasons extended into that period if required. If we do not restart football again in time to fit in that gap then it gets more complicated. One step at a time though, no need for dramatic decisions at this stage.

I think the issue of players contracts running out is the least difficult of the conundrum to resolve.
		
Click to expand...

Apparently Sheff Wednesday have 8-10 players running out of contract in June (source was a fan today, so I'm guessing that is right). So, even if not an issue in Premiership, I reckon clubs even in Championship will suffer. All very well saying contracts can be extended by 2 months. But, in reality, if a player had his contract running out, why would they sign a 2 month extension? Either they were waiting it out anyway, or they know the club wont keep them after 2 months.

I initially felt playing in summer would be the way forward. Maybe it is. But, as others have said, might not be easy if stadiums are booked up?

Also, I honestly cant see this being over by summer. Hope it is. But having talked to a GP and nurse in N Ireland (family and friends), this is a pretty bad situation. Pretty being an understatement. So, all I hope for now is that we can start getting back to normality by end of summer, although it would be lovely to think everything will be good by April. Fingers crossed.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Mar 15, 2020)

Can't see any way around it not being cancelled and can't see UEFA wanting to start their comps next year based on this years competitors and with so much money involved teams will argue they could have qualified and so losing massive money.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 15, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Apparently Sheff Wednesday have 8-10 players running out of contract in June (source was a fan today, so I'm guessing that is right). So, even if not an issue in Premiership, I reckon clubs even in Championship will suffer. All very well saying contracts can be extended by 2 months. But, in reality, if a player had his contract running out, why would they sign a 2 month extension? Either they were waiting it out anyway, or they know the club wont keep them after 2 months.

I initially felt playing in summer would be the way forward. Maybe it is. But, as others have said, might not be easy if stadiums are booked up?

Also, I honestly cant see this being over by summer. Hope it is. But having talked to a GP and nurse in N Ireland (family and friends), this is a pretty bad situation. Pretty being an understatement. So, all I hope for now is that we can start getting back to normality by end of summer, although it would be lovely to think everything will be good by April. Fingers crossed.
		
Click to expand...

The EFL could prevent players from moving clubs and playing for a new team during the remainder of the season? It's not a perfect answer and I accept there are contractual and legal complications but these are strange times and surely the leagues and clubs can come to a mutually agreeable solution. 

In terms of grounds again there are ways around this. For every ground with concerts on there are plenty that will lie empty. Clubs need to work together and if that means using another clubs ground for a home game then so be it. Can you see a chairman saying no to such a request at the moment?

As has been said, extraordinary times, extraordinary measures. 

Can't disagree with your last comments 👍


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 15, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Can't see any way around it not being cancelled and can't see UEFA wanting to start their comps next year based on this years competitors and with so much money involved teams will argue they could have qualified and so losing massive money.
		
Click to expand...

So are Liverpool still the defending European Champions?


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 15, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			So are Liverpool still the defending European Champions?
		
Click to expand...

Happy to say Liverpool are defending European Champions next season, if Man City are defending Premier League champions


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 16, 2020)

Just another thought. Will most clubs be happy to have their players start playing again without any warm up games? Even on the 2 week winter break, that was being blamed for some players getting injured on return.

If they start playing 3rd April, maybe that will be just about ok? But, anything longer, I cant see most clubs being happy at all. Players wont be match fit. And then what? Ask them to play 2-3 games a week to try and catch up some ground?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Mar 16, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Just another thought. Will most clubs be happy to have their players start playing again without any warm up games? Even on the 2 week winter break, that was being blamed for some players getting injured on return.

If they start playing 3rd April, maybe that will be just about ok? But, anything longer, I cant see most clubs being happy at all. Players wont be match fit. And then what? Ask them to play 2-3 games a week to try and catch up some ground?
		
Click to expand...

At a push I'd imagine clubs would simply have to try and rotate their squads and perhaps the PL will allow extra registrations so U23 teams could be allowed to play as well as squads already declared. After that managers would have to decide how they use their players. I do agree though that there likelihood off players getting muscle injuries etc is far greater (wonder if some will get a "strain" and not be seen until next season anyway)


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 16, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Just another thought. Will most clubs be happy to have their players start playing again without any warm up games? Even on the 2 week winter break, that was being blamed for some players getting injured on return.

If they start playing 3rd April, maybe that will be just about ok? But, anything longer, I cant see most clubs being happy at all. Players wont be match fit. And then what? Ask them to play 2-3 games a week to try and catch up some ground?
		
Click to expand...

It's a moot point 

The season won't be restarting anytime soon if at all 

By then the over 70s could be in lock down

Does that mean palace manager can't come to work?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 16, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			At a push I'd imagine clubs would simply have to try and rotate their squads and perhaps the PL will allow extra registrations so U23 teams could be allowed to play as well as squads already declared. After that managers would have to decide how they use their players. I do agree though that there likelihood off players getting muscle injuries etc is far greater (wonder if some will get a "strain" and not be seen until next season anyway)
		
Click to expand...

Most players keep themselves fit . But match fitness is important.
The only ones who need to be on form are the ones with something to play for ,mainly top and bottom teams .
If Liverpool get the points they need quickly they can more or less let the first team go on holiday.
Using the squad to play remaining games gives the players a long rest.
Some teams at the bottom or fighting for CL places won’t have that luxury.


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 16, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Most players keep themselves fit . But match fitness is important.
The only ones who need to be on form are the ones with something to play for ,mainly top and bottom teams .
If Liverpool get the points they need quickly they can more or less let the first team go on holiday.
Using the squad to play remaining games gives the players a long rest.
Some teams at the bottom or fighting for CL places won’t have that luxury.
		
Click to expand...

Well mason mount thought it was okay to meet up with Declan rice for a kick about

Chelsea are self isolating 

Ffs


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			It's a moot point

The season won't be restarting anytime soon if at all

By then the over 70s could be in lock down

*Does that mean palace manager can't come to work*?
		
Click to expand...

That might improve them 🤭🤭 

For the integrity of the worldwide  game the season needs to be finished in every pro league .


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			That might improve them 🤭🤭

For the integrity of the worldwide  game the season needs to be finished in every pro league .
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but the integrity of football for one sailed a long time ago

But as klopp himself said

There are bigger and more important things than football right now.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Mar 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Sorry but the integrity of football for one sailed a long time ago

But as klopp himself said

There are bigger and more important things than football right now.
		
Click to expand...

I think it shows the class of the man that he is the only one in footy saying that, instead of the “poor me/us” pronouncements of Rooney.


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 16, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I think it shows the class of the man that he is the only one in footy saying that, instead of the “poor me/us” pronouncements of Rooney.
		
Click to expand...

Klopp is without a doubt the most class person in football right now


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			That might improve them 🤭🤭

*For the integrity of the worldwide  game the season needs to be finished in every pro league* .
		
Click to expand...

Given the scale of this crisis, I don't think the "integrity" of the game of football will be ruined regardless of many different scenarios they decide to go with in starting it up again. I think most people will end up simply being happy that we can, at some point, get back to watching football again, even if the last year is completely cancelled. I don't think it will necessarily come to that, and appreciate it would be a bit of a kick in the nuts to some teams, and obviously Liverpool, if that did happen. So, they need to look at all solutions to stop that happening.

But, this is completely unprecedented. I doubt there is anything in the small print in the rules to say what would happen in this situation (otherwise I'm sure we'd have all heard about it by now). So, anything can happen. This time last week at work, everyone was still pretty much unconcerned about everything. This morning, there is pretty much a high expectation that, at some point, working from home will become compulsory. It is when, not if. So, if things are about to potentially get very bad here in the UK, in terms of disruption to our everyday lives, it is difficult to see football clubs agreeing to let their players play football any time soon. And, if they can resume the season in September instead, I can see that introducing all sorts of other problems, rather than just wiping the slate clean and starting up normally.

Tried to see what happened during the outbreak of WW2. All competitions were abandoned. However, this was in September, so to be fair the season probably only just got started. On a smaller scale, though, I guess the Players Championship was just cancelled. OK, they were only 1 round in, but I bet Matsuyama was quite downbeat about it, after shooting a course record


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 16, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



*I think it shows the class of the man that he is the only one in footy saying that*, instead of the “poor me/us” pronouncements of Rooney.
		
Click to expand...

Except he’s not! 

https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...eague-manager-has-said-about-the-coronavirus/


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 16, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I think it shows the class of the man that he is the only one in footy saying that, instead of the “poor me/us” pronouncements of Rooney.
		
Click to expand...

Yea it’s pathetic how Rooney is worried about his family. Horrible human being.


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 16, 2020)

In actual football news, I see that Bruno Fernandes has been named player of the month for February. Very odd because he hasn’t been very good since he’s joined.


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 16, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			In actual football news, I see that Bruno Fernandes has been named player of the month for February. Very odd because he hasn’t been very good since he’s joined.
		
Click to expand...

Isn't he still banned anyways? Been so nice


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 16, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Just another thought. Will most clubs be happy to have their players start playing again without any warm up games? Even on the 2 week winter break, that was being blamed for some players getting injured on return.

If they start playing 3rd April, maybe that will be just about ok? But, anything longer, I cant see most clubs being happy at all. Players wont be match fit. And then what? Ask them to play 2-3 games a week to try and catch up some ground?
		
Click to expand...

After my initial ideas last week, and what has moved on since:-

Personally, I think that we may be best having the pre-season break now, for at least 2 months (in football).

Sack next years nations league.

Delay Euros for 1 year.

No foreign pre-season games - go to your local FL and non-league teams - God knows, they will need that money. If Tranmere, Chester, Wrexham, Southport and Marine played Liverpool, Everton it will be money-spinners, hard cheese on the premier teams not having lucrative Asian and US tours for one season - muck in, help the lower league teams, we're all in this together.

Finish this season in May/June or July/August. If the first 2 months, still give the players a few weeks off. If the latter cancel next years league cup and FA cup for one season, compensate leagues 1 and 2, and the top divisions of the non-league from Premiership TV deals, and the clubs also. 2-3 week transfer window to happen before the next season starts.

As June-June may be a whole 12 months of playing, give the players a 2-4 week winter break in late Jan/early Feb.

Giving up is the easy and most unfair option - if we did that after Dunkirk, I'd now be supporting Bayern Liverpool.


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 16, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			After my initial ideas last week, and what has moved on since:-

Personally, I think that we may be best having the pre-season break now, for at least 2 months (in football).

Sack next years nations league.

Delay Euros for 1 year.

No foreign pre-season games - go to your local FL and non-league teams - God knows, they will need that money. If Tranmere, Chester, Wrexham, Southport and Marine played Liverpool, Everton it will be money-spinners, hard cheese on the premier teams not having lucrative Asian and US tours for one season - muck in, help the lower league teams, we're all in this together.

Finish this season in May/June or July/August. If the first 2 months, still give the players a few weeks off. If the latter cancel next years league cup and FA cup for one season, compensate leagues 1 and 2, and the top divisions of the non-league from Premiership TV deals, and the clubs also. 2-3 week transfer window to happen before the next season starts.

As June-June may be a whole 12 months of playing, give the players a 2-4 week winter break in late Jan/early Feb.

Giving up is the easy and most unfair option - if we did that after Dunkirk, I'd now be supporting Bayern Liverpool.

Click to expand...

Ok so what happens to players contracts that expire June 30th? Loan players come back to their clubs?

What about Chelsea who have a signing who signs July 1st? So he can then play for them can he in this season?


----------



## Dando (Mar 16, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I think it shows the class of the man that he is the only one in footy saying that, instead of the “poor me/us” pronouncements of Rooney.
		
Click to expand...

I was shocked when I heard that shrek wrote for the times.

I wonder if they gave him his own crayons.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Ok so what happens to players contracts that expire June 30th? Loan players come back to their clubs?

What about Chelsea who have a signing who signs July 1st? So he can then play for them can he in this season?
		
Click to expand...

Is it really worth me arguing with you, go on, is it? 

There are big hurdles and there are little hurdles, and Lord Tyrion answers it very well.


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 16, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Is it really worth me arguing with you, go on, is it?

There are big hurdles and there are little hurdles, and Lord Tyrion answers it very well.

Click to expand...

Not really no as I'm following logic 

The season is much easily voided 

And I bet if it was citeh out in front like this nobody would even care


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 16, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			After my initial ideas last week, and what has moved on since:-

Personally, I think that we may be best having the pre-season break now, for at least 2 months (in football).

Sack next years nations league.

Delay Euros for 1 year.

No foreign pre-season games - go to your local FL and non-league teams - God knows, they will need that money. If Tranmere, Chester, Wrexham, Southport and Marine played Liverpool, Everton it will be money-spinners, hard cheese on the premier teams not having lucrative Asian and US tours for one season - muck in, help the lower league teams, we're all in this together.

Finish this season in May/June or July/August. If the first 2 months, still give the players a few weeks off. If the latter cancel next years league cup and FA cup for one season, compensate leagues 1 and 2, and the top divisions of the non-league from Premiership TV deals, and the clubs also. 2-3 week transfer window to happen before the next season starts.

As June-June may be a whole 12 months of playing, give the players a 2-4 week winter break in late Jan/early Feb.

Giving up is the easy and most unfair option - if we did that after Dunkirk, I'd now be supporting Bayern Liverpool.

Click to expand...

Good one on the pre-season fixtures.

Not sure the FA would be willing to drop their Cup Comps.

I can see all the Euro Club and National Comps at bigger risk as Countries recover at different rates and whether any Leagues are finished or binned.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Not really no as I'm following logic

The season is much easily voided

And I bet if it was citeh out in front like this nobody would even care
		
Click to expand...

Or if West Ham weren’t near the bottom 3


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 16, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Or if West Ham weren’t near the bottom 3

Click to expand...

Couldn't care less tbh... If we go down or not is not a concern to us

We will still exist 

We may come back we may not

But for Liverpool it's huge the first title in decades

If it was city nobody would care it would be just another title


----------



## 4LEX (Mar 16, 2020)

Gotta love Sky and the Sunday Supplement especially. Yesterday was a classic in the arrogance of these football journos. Martin Samual says with a straightface at the end "theres no appetite for the season to be voided".......and 2 minutes later on the same channel, a poll with over 220,000 votes indicated the majority wanted it voided


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 16, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			After my initial ideas last week, and what has moved on since:-

Personally, I think that we may be best having the pre-season break now, for at least 2 months (in football).

Sack next years nations league.

Delay Euros for 1 year.

No foreign pre-season games - go to your local FL and non-league teams - God knows, they will need that money. If Tranmere, Chester, Wrexham, Southport and Marine played Liverpool, Everton it will be money-spinners, hard cheese on the premier teams not having lucrative Asian and US tours for one season - muck in, help the lower league teams, we're all in this together.

Finish this season in May/June or July/August. If the first 2 months, still give the players a few weeks off. If the latter cancel next years league cup and FA cup for one season, compensate leagues 1 and 2, and the top divisions of the non-league from Premiership TV deals, and the clubs also. 2-3 week transfer window to happen before the next season starts.

As June-June may be a whole 12 months of playing, give the players a 2-4 week winter break in late Jan/early Feb.

Giving up is the easy and most unfair option - if we did that after Dunkirk, I'd now be supporting Bayern Liverpool.

Click to expand...

It's a good idea about Premiership clubs playing against lower league clubs, try and support them as much as possible.

However, I think continuing season in late September would have many problems. As mentioned, player contracts and transfers will be one issue. Booked stadiums another. Also, will be very interesting what other European Leagues decide to do. There will be the issue of what happens with European Qualification next year, whether it goes ahead, what format and how qualification works. If it does go ahead, could be problematic if leagues are still trying to finish their games in August / September?


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Sorry but the integrity of football for one sailed a long time ago

But as klopp himself said

There are bigger and more important things than football right now.
		
Click to expand...

Apologies I meant for the "Integrity of the competition". 

Klopp is correct and I'm of the same opinion. 

Once this virus is under control and the experts say it's safe to get back to normality then all pro  football should be reconvened and the competitions should be completed from where it left off. 

Next season can wait, Its really that simple.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Couldn't care less tbh... If we go down or not is not a concern to us

We will still exist

We may come back we may not

But for Liverpool it's huge the first title in decades

If it was city nobody would care it would be just another title
		
Click to expand...

This isnt  just about Liverpool, It's about the rest of football. 

Look at the lower leagues, Fleetwood are in a position to get promoted ahead of bigger teams.

Brentford are a few games and a bit a luck away from the promised land,Bristol city Cardiff Milwall all 5/6 points behind the play offs.

Celtic are going to equal 9 in a row....

Many many more smaller clubs in great positions etc

Do you really think it's acceptable to dent these and many other teams the chance to create their own history for the sake of being flexible? 

What's the rush in starting next season?


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Apologies I meant for the "Integrity of the competition".

Klopp is correct and I'm of the same opinion.

Once this virus is under control and the experts say it's safe to get back to normality then all pro  football should be reconvened and the competitions should be completed from where it left off.

Next season can wait, Its really that simple.
		
Click to expand...

Well no it's not simple because of contracts and other bits as I keep mentioning 

However your right next season could wait

If they say are ready to start in July
Give everyone a one month transfer window to sort out their teams and continue from there

Then it's fair

For example 1st July west brom lose one their best players to us because he is just on loan

So they are weakened and we are strengthened mid season without some sort of adjustment


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Well no it's not simple because of contracts and other bits as I keep mentioning

However your right next season could wait

If they say are ready to start in July
Give everyone a one month transfer window to sort out their teams and continue from there

Then it's fair

For example 1st July west brom lose one their best players to us because he is just on loan

So they are weakened and we are strengthened mid season without some sort of adjustment
		
Click to expand...

The simple solution will be all players are contracted to the club until completed end of the football season. I'm pretty certain all players,clubs and agents would accept this. They're still being paid right now whilst they're off.

Lower league Clubs have budgeted for the season with ST sales and gate receipts. Cancel the season and clubs will be faced with a massive bill to refund ST's etc.


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			The simple solution will be all players are contracted to the club until completed end of the football season. I'm pretty certain all players,clubs and agents would accept this. They're still being paid right now whilst they're off.

Lower league Clubs have budgeted for the season with ST sales and gate receipts. Cancel the season and clubs will be faced with a massive bill to refund ST's etc.
		
Click to expand...

Slight example where it might not work

Say your contract is due to expire 

Would you wanna stay? Would you say to club oh I'll stay but will cost you another year or 30th June I'm off?


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			The simple solution will be all players are contracted to the club until completed end of the football season. I'm pretty certain all players,clubs and agents would accept this. They're still being paid right now whilst they're off.

Lower league Clubs have budgeted for the season with ST sales and gate receipts. Cancel the season and clubs will be faced with a massive bill to refund ST's etc.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think that is how contracts work though.

Some players will be running their contracts down. Are they going to stay at that club for another few months (especially if they can get a better contract elsewhere)?

For many players, the clubs will have allowed their contracts to run down, as they have no intention of keeping them. Are players going to have the loyalty to stick with that club for another few months? Or, will clubs want to keep them on their wage bill for another couple of months, if they've already decided they want to get rid of them due to high wages?

I don't think you can simply just say "all players and clubs must extend their contract for another couple of months". And, if we get to June / July, still no football? Are you saying players should just indefinitely extend these contracts for goodness knows how long?


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Slight example where it might not work

Say your contract is due to expire

Would you wanna stay? Would you say to club oh I'll stay but will cost you another year or 30th June I'm off?
		
Click to expand...


I'm pretty certain all pros right now want to play football. 

I'm certain the FA/PL/UEFA will pass a legislation to stop players doing what you're suggesting and either making the players stay at their contracted club or withhold the registration to their new clubs. 

If football is cancelled til 1st june , would those players refuse their salaries because they're not actually earning the wage right now?


----------



## Swango1980 (Mar 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm pretty certain all pros right now want to play football.

I'm certain the FA/PL/UEFA will pass a legislation to stop players doing what you're suggesting and either making the players stay at their contracted club or withhold the registration to their new clubs.

If football is cancelled til 1st june , would those players refuse their salaries because they're not actually earning the wage right now?
		
Click to expand...

I don't think the football authorities would do that at all. Otherwise, risk getting sued for infringing on players rights.

Definition of Contract: A contract of employment is a legal agreement between the employer and the employee. Its terms cannot lawfully be changed by the employer without agreement from the employee (either individually or through a recognised trade union).

So, given that players contracts are between the player and their club, tell me how the FA / Premier League have the authority to change those contracts. And, if they threatened players by witholding registration for other clubs, expect huge lawsuits to come their way.


----------



## AmandaJR (Mar 16, 2020)

I doubt we'll see any football for a number of months. UEFA are said to be meeting tomorrow so we'll know more about the plans for the Euros. If they call that off now then that eases some of the issues but can't see the Premier League and EFL being in a position to make any decision about restarting this season for months so they may consider that is too long to wait and call it over now. How they'll decide upon results - if any - is open to all sorts of conjecture.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 16, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



*I don't think that is how contracts work though.*

Some players will be running their contracts down. Are they going to stay at that club for another few months (especially if they can get a better contract elsewhere)?

For many players, the clubs will have allowed their contracts to run down, as they have no intention of keeping them. Are players going to have the loyalty to stick with that club for another few months? Or, will clubs want to keep them on their wage bill for another couple of months, if they've already decided they want to get rid of them due to high wages?

I don't think you can simply just say "all players and clubs must extend their contract for another couple of months". And, if we get to June / July, still no football? Are you saying players should just indefinitely extend these contracts for goodness knows how long?
		
Click to expand...

Of course it isnt, this is an  extraordinary case. 

There's always a solution to a contract. 

Like I've said earlier, I'm sure the PL/UEFA/PFA could agree a solution to very few contract issues.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 16, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			It's a good idea about Premiership clubs playing against lower league clubs, try and support them as much as possible.

However, I think continuing season in late September would have many problems. As mentioned, player contracts and transfers will be one issue. Booked stadiums another. Also, will be very interesting what other European Leagues decide to do. There will be the issue of what happens with European Qualification next year, whether it goes ahead, what format and how qualification works. If it does go ahead, could be problematic if leagues are still trying to finish their games in August / September?
		
Click to expand...

There are going to be problems with all scenarios, come what may.

There arent that many stadiums that hold other events in the summer. I'm sure Liverpool would rather host games than "Pink", who can always come next year, or Football Aid, the same.

Competitions that arent started yet, are easier to change/postpone/amend than ones that are 80-90% done.


----------



## pauljames87 (Mar 16, 2020)

if the worst case happens of a complete finish of season now with it voided like ive said before all prize money should be put into a pot

20% taken off the pot for lower league clubs who could fold

the rest divided evenly amongst the league 

do that for every league

fair and consistent


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 16, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			I don't think the football authorities would do that at all. Otherwise, risk getting sued for infringing on players rights.

Definition of Contract: A contract of employment is a legal agreement between the employer and the employee. Its terms cannot lawfully be changed by the employer without agreement from the employee (either individually or through a recognised trade union).

So, given that players contracts are between the player and their club, tell me how the FA / Premier League have the authority to change those contracts. And, if they threatened players by witholding registration for other clubs, expect huge lawsuits to come their way.
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure there would be a solution agreed by all parties. Or should we cancel football just because of a  few players contracts?

FIFA are reviewing impact of postponed games on player contracts and registrations....


----------



## PieMan (Mar 16, 2020)

Any scenariothat stop Liverpool winning the league; imposes a European and transfer ban on Man City for at least 2 seasons; has Spurs, Arsenal and Man Utd missing out on European football next season; and stops dirty Leeds being promoted would be perfect 👍👍😉😂


----------



## 4LEX (Mar 16, 2020)

The problem is in the face of a global crisis I don't think anyone bar the fans of Liverpool or Leeds really cares about football or has the appetite to finish the season. I was really looking forward to the Champions League latter stages and the Euros but couldn't care less about those things. It just doesn't matter.

I couldn't think of anything worse than restarting the Premier League season in August, deciding it all, then having a break and starting another new season. 

I think Liverpool are a special case as they're so far ahead they could be a vote and then awarded the title and everything else voided. Leeds are in a good position but with their history of letting leads slip, it's not nailed on,they can be voided with little fuss.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 16, 2020)

Let me chuck in Grenade.

Was it fair that all teams in the old Div 1 were banned from european football because of a club. 🤔
Me point is that when it comes to footballing decisions, the FA and Prem league bosses dont do fair. 
For the record, give the title to Liverpool. But for all the complications of this season, giving the title to Liverpool is  the easiest to solve of many.
And whatever is decided someone is going to be upset and say it's not fair.
Heres a thought, no relegation. 3 championship teams come up. Ban the league cup next year for the prem teams 6 go down next season.


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 16, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Let me chuck in Grenade.

*Was it fair that all teams in the old Div 1 were banned from european football because of a club*. 🤔
Me point is that when it comes to footballing decisions, the FA and Prem league bosses dont do fair.
For the record, give the title to Liverpool. But for all the complications of this season, giving the title to Liverpool is  the easiest to solve of many.
And whatever is decided someone is going to be upset and say it's not fair.
Heres a thought, no relegation. 3 championship teams come up. Ban the league cup next year for the prem teams 6 go down next season.
		
Click to expand...

I know you like to add a little needle now and again, and Liverpool are the fake rivalry because they're competition. *BUT* that's shocking.

English fans were to blame for the european ban. Supporters of all clubs were up to no good


----------



## 4LEX (Mar 16, 2020)

No it wasn't fair.

However English fans in general were causing trouble across Europe in the 70's and 80's, it wasn't just Liverpool. If it had been Chelsea, Man Utd or Arsenal in that final the outcome would've been the same, potentially worse.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 16, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I know you like to add a little needle now and again, and Liverpool are the fake rivalry because they're competition. *BUT* that's shocking.

English fans were to blame for the european ban. Supporters of all clubs were up to no good
		
Click to expand...

As I mentioned I would give the title to Liverpool, but some fans would argue that was not the case esp Everton fans if memory serves me right and it come from a time when City were not affected as theres not much chance of going to europe when your in div 2.
Again my point is about "fair". I dont think there is any scenario where everyone will think the outcome will be fair. But again and once more using an example because its says  Liverpool on the tin dont mean am havng a dig at Liverpool.


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 16, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			As I mentioned I would give the title to Liverpool, but some fans would argue that was not the case esp Everton fans if memory serves me right and it come from a time when City were not affected as theres not much chance of going to europe when your in div 2.
Again my point is about "fair". I dont think there is any scenario where everyone will think the outcome will be fair. But again and once more using an example because its says  Liverpool on the tin dont mean am havng a dig at Liverpool.
		
Click to expand...

You referenced Heysel in a point scoring exercise. The only team that can have been aimed at was Liverpool. So no need to play the "i didn't say it guv" card.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 16, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			As I mentioned I would give the title to Liverpool, but some fans would argue that was not the case esp Everton fans if memory serves me right and it come from a time when City were not affected as theres not much chance of going to europe when your in div 2.
Again my point is about "fair". I dont think there is any scenario where everyone will think the outcome will be fair. But again and once more using an example because its says  Liverpool on the tin dont mean am havng a dig at Liverpool.
		
Click to expand...

There’s no fair way for everyone except , carry the season on when time is right.!
There’s nothing else that dosnt impact on someone unfairly.
Problems yes but nothing that can’t be overcome.


----------



## Slime (Mar 16, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			You referenced Heysel in a point scoring exercise. The only team that can have been aimed at was Liverpool. So no need to play the "i didn't say it guv" card.
		
Click to expand...

I genuinely don't think he referenced the Heysel tragedy as a points scoring excercise ................. I just don't think Tashy's like that.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 16, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Let me chuck in Grenade.

Was it fair that all teams in the old Div 1 were banned from european football because of a club. 🤔
Me point is that when it comes to footballing decisions, the FA and Prem league bosses dont do fair.
For the record, give the title to Liverpool. But for all the complications of this season, giving the title to Liverpool is  the easiest to solve of many.
And whatever is decided someone is going to be upset and say it's not fair.
Heres a thought, no relegation. 3 championship teams come up. Ban the league cup next year for the prem teams 6 go down next season.
		
Click to expand...

Well done Scabbyboy using a tragedy to back up a point 🙄

For the record, Thatcher banned ALL English clubs, NOT the fa or Uefa.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Mar 16, 2020)

Slime said:



			I genuinely don't think he referenced the Heysel tragedy as a points scoring excercise ................. I just don't think Tashy's like that.
		
Click to expand...

He’s a scab so who knows 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 16, 2020)

Slime said:



			I genuinely don't think he referenced the Heysel tragedy as a points scoring excercise ................. I just don't think Tashy's like that.
		
Click to expand...

That's like saying "xxxxxx player isnt like that" after a snide leg breaker. Pre meditated.


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 16, 2020)

Slime said:



			I genuinely don't think he referenced the Heysel tragedy as a points scoring excercise ................. I just don't think Tashy's like that.
		
Click to expand...

Let me just chuck in a grenade....

Imo he knew what he was saying. I'm not saying he was accusing the Liverpool fans for causing the tragedy. But he was clearly laying the blame for the ban at their feet.


----------



## Jensen (Mar 16, 2020)

Oh dear Tashyboy, it looks like you will now added to the "Ignore List " 😄


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 16, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I know you like to add a little needle now and again, and Liverpool are the fake rivalry because they're competition. *BUT* that's shocking.

*English fans were to blame for the european ban. Supporters of all clubs were up to no good*

Click to expand...

Really? all English fans? I agree we had a problem, but some teams over the 5 years who missed out see themselves as innocent, ie Norwich, Oxford, Sheff Weds, Coventry, Wimbledon, Luton etc.

Thatcher was the one totally responsible for the ban and Heysel gave her the excuse.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 16, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Really? all English fans? I agree we had a problem, but some teams over the 5 years who missed out see themselves as innocent, ie Norwich, Oxford, Sheff Weds, Coventry, Wimbledon, Luton etc.

Thatcher was the one totally responsible for the ban and Heysel gave her the excuse.
		
Click to expand...

All English fans played there part prior to Heysel. Liverpool were the final nail in the coffin.


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 16, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Really? all English fans? I agree we had a problem, but some teams over the 5 years who missed out see themselves as innocent, ie Norwich, Oxford, Sheff Weds, Coventry, Wimbledon, Luton etc.

Thatcher was the one totally responsible for the ban and Heysel gave her the excuse.
		
Click to expand...

Football in that era domestically had problems. I'm sure there were fans of every clubs that would have been innocent. But by and large it was an issue for most. 

If you think I meant literally every single fan then you're welcome to that interpretation.


----------



## Bazzatron (Mar 16, 2020)

If the whole season gets voided then there's no point anymore. Finish it off whenever its possible to do so, with exception of the Championship, promote Leeds now and forget about whoever is in 2nd place.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			All English fans played there part prior to Heysel. Liverpool were the final nail in the coffin.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry mate, I don’t believe you can tar everyone with same brush.
Some of those Clubs who missed out on Europe had never played in a European competition.
Violence in England alone would never have got us banned from Europe.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 16, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Sorry mate, I don’t believe you can tar everyone with same brush.
Some of those Clubs who missed out on Europe had never played in a European competition.
Violence in England alone would never have got us banned from Europe.
		
Click to expand...

*Prior* to European Cup Final 1985, all English fans had caused/took part in trouble in Europe.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



*Prior* to European Cup Final 1985, all English fans had caused/took part in trouble in Europe.
		
Click to expand...

It’s old ground mate and not related to the current situation so I’ll bow out of this one as as you’ve already said Heysel was the final nail and for me it was the excuse thatcher was looking for, I don’t believe you can say all English fans and if Heysel hadn’t of happened who knows if a ban would of come about through another event or not.

As we’ve seen posted on here before, some fan’s of other Clubs that missed out on Europe wrongly only blame Lpool and that won’t change.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 16, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Let me just chuck in a grenade....

Imo he knew what he was saying. I'm not saying he was accusing the Liverpool fans for causing the tragedy. But he was clearly laying the blame for the ban at their feet.
		
Click to expand...

I was, hence the grenade but it was in no way referencing any tragedy.


----------



## PieMan (Mar 16, 2020)

Hooliganism in the 70s and 80s was rife right across Europe, but was a particular problem in England, with every club having their fair share of idiots.

I know Stu has covered the Heysel point very well, but also needs pointing out that Heysel was totally inappropriate for hosting the European Cup Final - from memory think the reports afterwards highlighted the actual state of the stadium and how decrepit it was.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Well done Scabbyboy using a tragedy to back up a point 🙄

For the record, Thatcher banned ALL English clubs, NOT the fa or Uefa.
		
Click to expand...

Right this is my last post on this matter.
Quote,
On June 2, 1985, the Union of European Football Associations (UEFA) bans Englishfootball (soccer) clubs from competing in Europe.

The ban was put in place by UEFA. you can find that on many a site. It endorses my comments that when it comes to people governing football.
Fair does not come into it.  However once more the point is not about Liverpool and some kind of fake rivalry it is about fair. It is not about the dark history of events which I have not quoted but others have.


----------



## Beezerk (Mar 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Well done Scabbyboy using a tragedy to back up a point 🙄

For the record, Thatcher banned ALL English clubs, NOT the fa or Uefa.
		
Click to expand...

Well done you for bringing up the miners strike and calling them a scab to shame someone.
Two wrongs and all that.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 16, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Well done you for bringing up the miners strike and calling them a scab to *shame someone.*
Two wrongs and all that.
		
Click to expand...

Hardly, he openly admitted to it whilst bragging about his round the world holidays not before moaning he had his pension robbed though.... Unless you've got something to add to the debate i suggest you move along


----------



## Fish (Mar 17, 2020)

😏


----------



## Beezerk (Mar 17, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Hardly, he openly admitted to it whilst bragging about his round the world holidays not before moaning he had his pension robbed though.... Unless you've got something to add to the debate i suggest you move along
		
Click to expand...

 stay classy


----------



## Pathetic Shark (Mar 17, 2020)

I just love how every team is putting their own interests ahead of anything else.  Liverpool want the season to end as it is now, Man City want it annulled, teams in the bottom three want no relegation, teams in the top two in the Championship want auto promotion, teams in 3rd-6th want the playoffs to continue.    And some are already threatening legal action if they don't get their own way.

The world is going to hell in a handcart and all these sports owners/officials can think about are their own selfish interests.    Screw the lot of them!


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 17, 2020)

Pathetic Shark said:



			I just love how every team is putting their own interests ahead of anything else.  Liverpool want the season to end as it is now, Man City want it annulled, teams in the bottom three want no relegation, teams in the top two in the Championship want auto promotion, teams in 3rd-6th want the playoffs to continue.    And some are already threatening legal action if they don't get their own way.

The world is going to hell in a handcart and all these sports owners/officials can think about are their own selfish interests.    Screw the lot of them!
		
Click to expand...

i would think you would find that most LFC fans dont want it finishing "as is", and ideally want the season played out to win it with 38 games played, or at the least enough points gained so that City cant mathematically catch them.


----------



## 3offTheTee (Mar 17, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I know you like to add a little needle now and again, and Liverpool are the fake rivalry because they're competition. *BUT* that's shocking.

English fans were to blame for the european ban. Supporters of all clubs were up to no good
		
Click to expand...

If Heysel had NOT happened would English Clubs have been in Europe in 1986?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 17, 2020)

3offTheTee said:



			If Heysel had NOT happened would English Clubs have been in Europe in 1986?
		
Click to expand...

Probably as debatable as "if any other English clubs would have been there instead of Liverpool, would the same still have happened".

I was at Heysel, BTW.


----------



## Beezerk (Mar 17, 2020)

Euros postponed until next year, expected that but what the heck is happening with the remainder of the season 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 17, 2020)

3offTheTee said:



			If Heysel had NOT happened would English Clubs have been in Europe in 1986?
		
Click to expand...

Too young to have experienced the situation but from everything i've seen. It could be argued that worse could have happened as they tragedy was a catalyst for tougher sanction.s


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 17, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Too young to have experienced the situation but from everything i've seen. It could be argued that worse could have happened as they tragedy was a catalyst for tougher sanction.s
		
Click to expand...

Worse did happen, regardless of bans!

Like a lot of things in life the rich and powerful protect themselves, with hindsight should of Heysel hosted an event of that magnitude? Absolutely not. Did the Authorities take any responsibility? Yes and No, 3 Belgians, (head of their FA and 2 Policeman) were done for their role in what happened and (I think) between 10-15 Lpool fans were charged with manslaughter.

No action or responsibility was ever laid at UEFA’s door.

Did the ban serve it’s purpose? No, hooliganism continued and returned to Europe.

And back to my original comment “worse did happen” the FA chose Hillsborough as a venue for the semi-final 4 years later and as we now know, the police had learnt nothing.

It’s easy to blame Lpool fans for the Euro ban and yes I believe they should shoulder some of the blame for what happened in the Heysel stadium, but all the blame or responsibility? No, definitely not. That has to be shared and accepted by all those that played a role in the events leading to, on and after the event.


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Worse did happen, regardless of bans!

Like a lot of things in life the rich and powerful protect themselves, with hindsight should of Heysel hosted an event of that magnitude? Absolutely not. Did the Authorities take any responsibility? Yes and No, 3 Belgians, (head of their FA and 2 Policeman) were done for their role in what happened and (I think) between 10-15 Lpool fans were charged with manslaughter.

No action or responsibility was ever laid at UEFA’s door.

Did the ban serve it’s purpose? No, hooliganism continued and returned to Europe.

And back to my original comment “worse did happen” the FA chose Hillsborough as a venue for the semi-final 4 years later and as we now know, the police had learnt nothing.

It’s easy to blame Lpool fans for the Euro ban and yes I believe they should shoulder some of the blame for what happened in the Heysel stadium, but all the blame or responsibility? No, definitely not. That has to be shared and accepted by all those that played a role in the events leading to, on and after the event.
		
Click to expand...

I simply meant worse in europe. 

Re Hillsborough. Without going into it too much as its not something that i can recall either. From what i've seen it didn't strike me as it being as related hooliganism as other events.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 17, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I simply meant worse in europe.

Re Hillsborough. Without going into it too much as its not something that i can recall either. From what i've seen it didn't strike me as it being as related hooliganism as other events.
		
Click to expand...

Hillsborough wasn’t related to hooliganism, it’s the fact that within 4 years football authorities did not learn about picking inadequate stadia and the police learnt nothing about crowd control.

And finally, how many years did it take to prove the fans innocence?


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Hillsborough wasn’t related to hooliganism, it’s the fact that within 4 years football authorities did not learn about picking inadequate stadia and the police learnt nothing about crowd control.

And finally, how many years did it take to prove the fans innocence?
		
Click to expand...

I fully agree the organisations are more than culpable.

My original objection to Tashy's post is that it was imo certainly laced with a dig.


----------



## Beezerk (Mar 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Hillsborough wasn’t related to hooliganism, it’s the fact that within 4 years football authorities did not learn about picking inadequate stadia and the police learnt nothing about crowd control.

And finally, how many years did it take to prove the fans innocence?
		
Click to expand...

It was deemed adequate for the many years before the tragedy however.
You're telling me Hillsborough was worse than any other of the top grounds back in the day? They were all dumps, anyway I don't want to go into this again, it still rankles many a Wednesdayite.


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 17, 2020)

Pathetic Shark said:



			I just love how every team is putting their own interests ahead of anything else.  Liverpool want the season to end as it is now, Man City want it annulled, teams in the bottom three want no relegation, teams in the top two in the Championship want auto promotion, teams in 3rd-6th want the playoffs to continue.    And some are already threatening legal action if they don't get their own way.

The world is going to hell in a handcart and all these sports owners/officials can think about are their own selfish interests.    Screw the lot of them!
		
Click to expand...

I think for those reasons you have to finish the season whenever it is eventually possible. There is no satisfactory answer otherwise. As you say, if you put it to the vote each club just votes in their own interests. Liverpool, Leicester, teams outside the relegation will say let the current league table stand. Spurs, Arsenal, teams in the bottom three will say wipe the season and restart it. At least if you finish it everyone is on the same page. 

Playing Saturdays and Wednesdays in the summer it would only take 5 weeks to complete the games. Can be done in June or July, whenever it is deemed safe to resume normality. Start the new season at the end of August instead of the beginning.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 17, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			It was deemed adequate for the many years before the tragedy however.
You're telling me Hillsborough was worse than any other of the top grounds back in the day? They were all dumps, anyway I don't want to go into this again, it still rankles many a Wednesdayite.
		
Click to expand...

Who deemed it adequate? Spurs fans had suffered crush injuries years before in a Cup tie and there had been other issues. 
I blame the FA for not carrying out due diligence and the police for their part on the day.

The safety certificate for the ground had been issued in 1979 and never updated, even though changes were made between then and 89.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 17, 2020)

Nice to see UEFA using a bit of common sense rescheduling the Euro's, paves the way for domestic european football to be completed.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 17, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Worse did happen, regardless of bans!

Like a lot of things in life the rich and powerful protect themselves, with hindsight should of Heysel hosted an event of that magnitude? Absolutely not. Did the Authorities take any responsibility? Yes and No, 3 Belgians, (head of their FA and 2 Policeman) were done for their role in what happened and (I think) between 10-15 Lpool fans were charged with manslaughter.

No action or responsibility was ever laid at UEFA’s door.

Did the ban serve it’s purpose? No, hooliganism continued and returned to Europe.

And back to my original comment “worse did happen” the FA chose Hillsborough as a venue for the semi-final 4 years later and as we now know, the police had learnt nothing.

It’s easy to blame Lpool fans for the Euro ban and yes I believe they should shoulder some of the blame for what happened in the Heysel stadium, but all the blame or responsibility? No, definitely not. That has to be shared and accepted by all those that played a role in the events leading to, on and after the event.
		
Click to expand...

And this is the kind of well educated response I expected. So first and foremost thankyou Paul.

Once more, what ever the outcome, will it be fair. and no one has really answered it coz for me the answer is no. Read through Pauls response and ask what happened post the european ban was it fair. No. There was a hell of a lot that happened once the ban was in place and how much of it was Fair. Not a great deal. But that was not the point for some was it, all of a sudden we start talking about one team again and not all of English football. Because that one team.is mentioned the topic degenerates Into name calling and someones bragging. Really. 
Whether some folk like it or not. Football and its  clubs and there history is not just measured about trophies. It is also about the tragedies and dark side of the game, part of the game we would sooner forget but shouldn't. Why coz we dont wanna go back  there. 
Stay safe everyone.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 17, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			And this is the kind of well educated response I expected. So first and foremost thankyou Paul.

Once more, what ever the outcome, will it be fair. and no one has really answered it coz for me the answer is no. Read through Pauls response and ask what happened post the european ban was it fair. No. There was a hell of a lot that happened once the ban was in place and how much of it was Fair. Not a great deal. But that was not the point for some was it, all of a sudden we start talking about one team again and not all of English football. Because that one team.is mentioned the topic degenerates Into name calling and someones bragging. Really.
Whether some folk like it or not. Football and its  clubs and there history is not just measured about trophies. It is also about the tragedies and dark side of the game, part of the game we would sooner forget but shouldn't. Why coz we dont wanna go back  there.
Stay safe everyone.
		
Click to expand...

I dont know if your trying to play some clever game here, but lets face it you've never shown much intelligence.

Again, another keyboard warrior slinging mud around to either make one football club look better, or another one look worse. 

You pick at the scabs of history, if you want. How apt.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 19, 2020)

No english football til 30th April.

Hopefully 6 weeks will be enough for football to resume.


----------



## Captainron (Mar 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			No english football til 30th April.

Hopefully 6 weeks will be enough for football to resume.
		
Click to expand...

More time with the missus


----------



## Wolf (Mar 19, 2020)

Just seen Peter Whittingham, formerly of Villa and Cardiffs PL team has died age 35 of head injuries caused by a fall in a pub. That's no age at all


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 19, 2020)

Captainron said:



			More time with the missus 

Click to expand...

🤬🤬🤬


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 19, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Just seen Peter Whittingham, formerly of Villa and Cardiffs PL team has died age 35 of head injuries caused by a fall in a pub. That's no age at all
		
Click to expand...

Very sad news.


----------



## Fish (Mar 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			No english football til 30th April.

Hopefully 6 weeks will be enough for football to resume.
		
Click to expand...

No chance, virus numbers will be at a peak about then, then we’ll need 6wks or more to see stability and cases reducing. 

Lockdowns, rioting & looting to come yet! 

Pretty sure I heard on the radio at the same time this was released, that, the current season will be finished to completion, whenever that starts and however long it takes.


----------



## Jensen (Mar 19, 2020)

Rioting already started in Peckham TODAY


----------



## AmandaJR (Mar 19, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Rioting already started in Peckham TODAY
		
Click to expand...

I think that is fake (or old) news.


----------



## Dando (Mar 19, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Rioting already started in Peckham TODAY
		
Click to expand...

That’s a daily thing in Peckham!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 19, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Rioting already started in Peckham TODAY
		
Click to expand...




AmandaJR said:



			I think that is fake (or old) news.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, video was from 2011.


----------



## 4LEX (Mar 19, 2020)

Theres no way football will be back at the end of April or early May. If it can't go ahead now, how can it be back in 6 weeks when the virus is 8-12 weeks away from peaking and declining? They've just bought themselves more time.

I think July to August is more of a realistic timeframe if you want fans there. Then a fast start to the next one with no League Cup.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 19, 2020)

Fish said:



			No chance, virus numbers will be at a peak about then, then we’ll need 6wks or more to see stability and cases reducing.

Lockdowns, rioting & looting to come yet!

Pretty sure I heard on the radio at the same time this was released, that, the current season will be finished to completion, whenever that starts and however long it takes.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I'm not expecting to see any football til late May early June. It's good to know it's getting finished though 😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 19, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Theres no way football will be back at the end of April or early May. If it can't go ahead now, how can it be back in 6 weeks when the virus is 8-12 weeks away from peaking and declining? They've just bought themselves more time.

I think July to August is more of a realistic timeframe if you want fans there. Then a fast start to the next one with no League Cup.
		
Click to expand...

I'm expecting football behind closed doors before fans get in tbh.


----------



## 4LEX (Mar 19, 2020)

Yeah that's a likely situation. Play the first few games behind closed doors and then let fans in?


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 19, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Yeah that's a likely situation. Play the first few games behind closed doors and then let fans in?
		
Click to expand...

It's not ideal but if it's a solution to the problem then I'm happy watching us become champions though I'll have to order a new armchair if that's the case.

Can anyone recommend a comfortable Armchair and the best batteries for my sky remote?


----------



## Wolf (Mar 19, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Rioting already started in Peckham TODAY
		
Click to expand...




AmandaJR said:



			I think that is fake (or old) news.
		
Click to expand...




pauldj42 said:



			Yep, video was from 2011.
		
Click to expand...

See my random irritation from couple of hours ago.. Knobheads circulating the video claims it was today. It was as Paul says 2011, but even if it was more recently than that it'd have to be at least 4 years ago as the Blue inc store that's seen being ransacked closed around then as part of the company going into administration and it never reopened that store.. People are using anything to scaremonger right now.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It's not ideal but if it's a solution to the problem then I'm happy watching us become champions though I'll have to order a new armchair if that's the case.

Can anyone recommend a comfortable Armchair and the best batteries for my sky remote?
		
Click to expand...

Seasons done mate, just like the ‘A’ Level and ‘GCSE’ Results it’ll be the season that wasn’t actually finished and based on best guess or it’ll get binned, plus no one cares.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 19, 2020)

In other news:
PL Clubs were apparently told today they’d have to pay back £762m if the season isn’t finished, this would be the lost revenue for the non-playing of Live TV Matches.

You can bet by hook or by crook the season will get finished.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 19, 2020)

A great documentary in itv1 now about English football in Europe, all liverpool now but no doubt will include forest and Villa


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 19, 2020)

One for the googlers this, football before Sky invented it, who'dve thunk it🤭


----------



## Fish (Mar 20, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Rioting already started in Peckham TODAY
		
Click to expand...

That’s a vid from 2011 🙄


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It's not ideal but if it's a solution to the problem then I'm happy watching us become champions though I'll have to order a new armchair if that's the case.

Can anyone recommend a comfortable Armchair and the best batteries for my sky remote?
		
Click to expand...

We'll get two mate, save on carriage.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 20, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			We'll get two mate, save on carriage. 

Click to expand...

Not buying off the shelf, need to be custom fitted.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Not buying off the shelf, need to be custom fitted.
		
Click to expand...

Couch or chair, for us?  

I may go for one of them "cuddler couches".


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 20, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Couch or chair, for us?  

I may go for one of them "cuddler couches".

Click to expand...

You'll need a L shape suite for that lardarse 🤭🤭

Just the chair for me, it's all about the viewing angles.....

Yours size 38 waist😉


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			You'll need a L shape suite for that lardarse 🤭🤭

Just the chair for me, it's all about the viewing angles.....

Yours size 38 waist😉
		
Click to expand...

How very dare you.

37 inch waste, currently caught between/betwixt a 36 and a 38.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 20, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			How very dare you.

37 inch *waste*, currently caught between/betwixt a 36 and a 38. 

Click to expand...


What about your Waist? 😂


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			What about your Waist? 😂
		
Click to expand...

M&S elasticated waist sorts this problem.
Very nice they are to.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 20, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			M&S elasticated waist sorts this problem.
Very nice they are to.
		
Click to expand...

It's a slippery slope once you start on elasticated waist trousers 😁.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 20, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's a slippery slope once you start on elasticated waist trousers 😁.
		
Click to expand...

Not me my “friend “ had some.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 20, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not me my “friend “ had some.

Click to expand...

There are a lot of 'friends ' on the forum today 😁. Some asking questions, others wearing a certain type of fashion wear 😂


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 20, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			There are a lot of 'friends ' on the forum today 😁. Some asking questions, others wearing a certain type of fashion wear 😂
		
Click to expand...

A friend of mine is after some elastic waisted speedoos. Could be on his way to a million there.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			A friend of mine is after some elastic waisted speedoos. Could be on his way to a million there.
		
Click to expand...

That’s three words you don’t usually see in the same sentence.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			A friend of mine is after some elastic waisted speedoos. Could be on his way to a million there.
		
Click to expand...

Dear lord no, just no 😳😳.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 20, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			There are a lot of 'friends ' on the forum today 😁. Some asking questions, others wearing a certain type of fashion wear 😂
		
Click to expand...

All this self isolating were going to need comfy lounge wear.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 20, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			All this self isolating were going to need comfy lounge wear.
		
Click to expand...

My SiL was sent home to work from Thursday onwards for the foreseeable future. She rang my wife and said she was off to Next to buy some 'loungewear ' for home working. I laughed at the time but maybe that will be the industry to be in for the next few months, along with toilet rolls, soap and cleaning wipes 😁


----------



## clubchamp98 (Mar 20, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			My SiL was sent home to work from Thursday onwards for the foreseeable future. She rang my wife and said she was off to Next to buy some 'loungewear ' for home working. I laughed at the time but maybe that will be the industry to be in for the next few months, along with toilet rolls, soap and cleaning wipes 😁
		
Click to expand...

Next do some nice ones according to the wife.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Mar 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			What about your Waist? 😂
		
Click to expand...

God, my standards are slipping....... I'd better practice my where, wear, we'res.


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 20, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			God, my standards are slipping....... I'd better practice my where, wear, we'res.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😉


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 21, 2020)

Lorenzo Sanz: Former Real Madrid president dies after contracting coronavirus - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51991851
☹


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Mar 24, 2020)

Bit of fun to keep you ticking over https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50815078


----------



## Orikoru (Mar 24, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Bit of fun to keep you ticking over https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50815078

Click to expand...

*Your score: 36 / 36*
*You're top, top player...*
...and you gave 110%. That was some quality quizzing!


Don't know if I should be proud or ashamed.


----------



## Wolf (Mar 24, 2020)

Orikoru said:



*Your score: 36 / 36*
*You're top, top player...*
...and you gave 110%. That was some quality quizzing!


Don't know if I should be proud or ashamed.
		
Click to expand...

I'm impressed you got through the whole thing, I did the first 2 questions got them spot on and realised how boring it was so gave up 😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 24, 2020)

Orikoru said:



*Your score: 36 / 36*
*You're top, top player...*
...and you gave 110%. That was some quality quizzing!


Don't know if I should be proud or ashamed.
		
Click to expand...

Your score: 34 / 36
You're top, top player...
...and you gave 110%. That was some quality quizzing!

Close but no cigar


----------



## fundy (Mar 24, 2020)

got em all bar 0/6 on the Spurs one lol


----------



## Pin-seeker (Mar 27, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1243478328184655874
Sorted


----------



## larmen (Mar 28, 2020)

German Bundesliga are playing right now.
Well, they are playing FIFA. 16 teams have nominated a professional footballer each, and an esport person each. Games are on with a professional German commentator as well. Stay at home challenge.
My team Werder has the German fifa champion, might actually have to watch it tomorrow. Shame he doesn’t have great players to pick from as they play their own teams.


----------



## fundy (Mar 29, 2020)

Plenty of Jack Grealish rumours doing the rounds, threw a party last night then crashed a car later and did a runner etc

Expect the truth is somewhere between the extremes being speculated lol


----------



## Stuart_C (Mar 30, 2020)

fundy said:



			Plenty of Jack Grealish rumours doing the rounds, threw a party last night then crashed a car later and did a runner etc

Expect the truth is somewhere between the extremes being speculated lol
		
Click to expand...

If true, is that his chance at a top club gone now? im not sure


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			If true, is that his chance at a top club gone now? im not sure
		
Click to expand...

Cantona drop kicked a spectator. Gerrard lamped a DJ. It’ll be overlooked for a good enough player.


----------



## Papas1982 (Mar 30, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Cantona drop kicked a spectator. Gerrard lamped a DJ. It’ll be overlooked for a good enough player.
		
Click to expand...

Tbf they were both already at top clubs. 
Not looking to move to one. 

Then again Suarez took a bite out of two players and still got a move.....


----------



## Kellfire (Mar 30, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbf they were both already at top clubs.
Not looking to move to one.

Then again Suarez took a bite out of two players and still got a move.....
		
Click to expand...

Lloris kept his place at Spurs. Drinkwater... oh wait, never mind.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Mar 30, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbf they were both already at top clubs.
Not looking to move to one.

Then again Suarez took a bite out of two players and still got a move.....
		
Click to expand...

Three player’s. 
🤯😂


----------



## Slime (Mar 30, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Cantona drop kicked a spectator. Gerrard lamped a DJ. It’ll be overlooked for a good enough player.
		
Click to expand...

But they weren't looking to move to a far bigger club.


----------



## User62651 (Apr 1, 2020)

Good try!


----------



## pauljames87 (Apr 4, 2020)




----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 4, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 29659

Click to expand...

Well if that’s true I would agree with his comment.


----------



## pauljames87 (Apr 4, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well if that’s true I would agree with his comment.
		
Click to expand...

It's been confirmed by Liverpool I believe 

Them , spurs, Norwich and Newcastle now isn't it?

I'm surprised we haven't yet. Guess we have enough tax payer money but won't be long. 

No football club should be doing this


----------



## Papas1982 (Apr 4, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			It's been confirmed by Liverpool I believe

Them , spurs, Norwich and Newcastle now isn't it?

I'm surprised we haven't yet. Guess we have enough tax payer money but won't be long.

No football club should be doing this
		
Click to expand...

To be fair there are plenty of companies with revenue exceeding that of Premier league clubs that will do the same. 

I agree its not what the scheme is intended for, but would be amazed if any company doesn't take advantage of it.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 4, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			It's been confirmed by Liverpool I believe

Them , spurs, Norwich and Newcastle now isn't it?

I'm surprised we haven't yet. Guess we have enough tax payer money but won't be long.

No football club should be doing this
		
Click to expand...

I suppose they will say they pay enough tax in so are eligible for this 
But I don’t think it’s right.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 4, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			It's been confirmed by Liverpool I believe

Them , spurs, Norwich and Newcastle now isn't it?

I'm surprised we haven't yet. Guess we have enough tax payer money but won't be long.

No football club should be doing this
		
Click to expand...

Bournemouth as well.


----------



## Imurg (Apr 4, 2020)

It's going to be interesting to hear what noises are made when the 30-40-50 million quid transfers start......


----------



## Wolf (Apr 4, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			It's been confirmed by Liverpool I believe

Them , spurs, Norwich and Newcastle now isn't it?

I'm surprised we haven't yet. Guess we have enough tax payer money but won't be long.

*No football club should be doing this*

Click to expand...

I'd amend that to no top level clubs. As many lower league clubs may need to in order to prevent some staff losing their jobs. 

But certainly the Premier league doing it makes a mockery of the system


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 4, 2020)

Imurg said:



			It's going to be interesting to hear what noises are made when the 30-40-50 million quid transfers start......
		
Click to expand...

Agree .
Would have thought we had enough in reserve to pay the staff.
Also declaring this early dosnt look good .
Might have something to do with no prize money for winning PL until it’s finished???
Whatever the reason it’s poor imo.


----------



## fundy (Apr 4, 2020)

Dont know how accurate these numbers are but dont seem far off:

Just to put @LFC furloughing decision in context, half the non-playing staff at £2,500 a month would cost the taxpayer £840,000 approx a month. Liverpool in the last accounts spent £25 million a month on wages


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2020)

Morally it's wrong that we've resorted to this.  But then theres not many morals left in football is there?..... Only positive is LFC are topping the staffs wages upto 100% so no staff are losing money. 

Business wise I can totally understand it, they're saving nearly £1m per month.

Overall It doesnt sit right with me.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 4, 2020)

Would be interesting to see what Phil Thompson thinks about this.

The Liverpool way 🙄

YNWA.


----------



## 4LEX (Apr 4, 2020)

Absolutely shameful for any club to be paying players full whack and taking bail outs to pay other staff.

Spurs and Newcastle you can expect given their appalling penny pinching CEO's but Liverpool? Shocking the moral compass of English football have resorted to this. To save maybe 4-5m over 3 months while paying players £20m a month. I hope the season never finishes and the drought goes on. Utterly vile move and NOT what Liverpool FC used to be about.

As for Jack Grealish........I've bumped into him in Spain/Dubai a fair few times and this guy will never change. Genuinely a nice bloke but loves the other things too much!


----------



## DanFST (Apr 4, 2020)

Disgusting from Liverpool. It’s something West Ham would do.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Disgusting from Liverpool. It’s something West Ham would do.
		
Click to expand...

I'm disgusted that my club has done this, though I'm not surprised. They've got it wrong, badly. 

The fulough scheme is there to help struggling business's protect jobs not to help save a successful business a few million when they spunk £40m+ on agents fees etc. 

I would encourage the Govt to reclaim any payments made  to business's who dont actually need the help once the country is back up and running again. 

I'm not on Snitchbook but from reading Twitter, I've seen very few fans defending the club on this matter.


----------



## fundy (Apr 4, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm disgusted that my club has done this, though I'm not surprised. They've got it wrong, badly.

The fulough scheme is there to help struggling business's protect jobs not to help save a successful business a few million when they spunk £40m+ on agents fees etc.

I would encourage the Govt to reclaim any payments made  to business's who dont actually need the help once the country is back up and running again.

I'm not on Snitchbook but from reading Twitter, I've seen very few fans defending the club on this matter.
		
Click to expand...


well said Stu, sadly its only a matter of time until the rest of us are writing something similar i expect too


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 4, 2020)

Imagine if any of the nasty oil barons had done this 😱.


----------



## fundy (Apr 4, 2020)

PFA statement

https://www.thepfa.com/news/2020/4/4/pfa-statement-on-behalf-of-premier-league-players


----------



## pauljames87 (Apr 4, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Disgusting from Liverpool. It’s something West Ham would do.
		
Click to expand...





Turns out we aren't


----------



## Fish (Apr 4, 2020)

fundy said:



			PFA statement

https://www.thepfa.com/news/2020/4/4/pfa-statement-on-behalf-of-premier-league-players

Click to expand...

Why does the PFA feel the need to be involved, it’s nobody’s business to say how anyone spends their wages, if the players want to contribute in some way, like all Chelsea players & management have done to Joe Coles campaign, they can, I’m sure many players of all clubs would do so without the PFA involved!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 4, 2020)

Fish said:



			Why does the PFA feel the need to be involved, it’s nobody’s business to say how anyone spends their wages, if the players want to contribute in some way, like all Chelsea players & management have done to Joe Coles campaign, they can, I’m sure many players of all clubs would do so without the PFA involved!
		
Click to expand...

PFA justifying their big salaries would be my guess.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 4, 2020)

Footballers shouldn't be expected to give money from their salaries, will all the other millionaires around the country give 30% of their salaries up? 

There's plenty of Corporations using the furlough unfairly but the heat is on football and footballers which is wrong. 

 Maybe people will now accept the need to tax the rich more, they have too much money. Not just footballers and football clubs, but all of the millionaires, billionaires, hedge funds and corporations.

This focus on football is pure deflection. An easy target.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Footballers shouldn't be expected to give money from their salaries, will all the other millionaires around the country give 30% of their salaries up?

There's plenty of Corporations using the furlough unfairly but the heat is on football and footballers which is wrong.

Maybe people will now accept the need to tax the rich more, they have too much money. Not just footballers and football clubs, but all of the millionaires, billionaires, hedge funds and corporations.

This focus on football is pure deflection. An easy target.
		
Click to expand...

For whatever reason football receives a disproportionate amount of publicity and attention throughout the media, completely overlooking its actual relevance to society. 

Most of this focus is beneficial to the game but the corollary is, at a time like this, it will be in the forefront of criticism and negative comment. 

Not saying that it is particularly fair and I agree that there are plenty of other individuals and organisations worthy of equal criticism but they don't court the media to the same extent in more positive times.


----------



## Diamond (Apr 5, 2020)

There will be a backlash to football and the premier league, whether that is fair or unfair it will happen. Unlike other filthy rich people they are all over social media and some of them have a lot to say without actually doing anything.
Lewandowksi and Pep obviously not included.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 5, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			For whatever reason football receives a disproportionate amount of publicity and attention throughout the media, completely overlooking its actual relevance to society.

Most of this focus is beneficial to the game but the corollary is, at a time like this, it will be in the forefront of criticism and negative comment.

Not saying that it is particularly fair and I agree that there are plenty of other individuals and organisations worthy of equal criticism but *they don't court the media to the same extent in more positive times*.
		
Click to expand...

It would be impossible for any football club to stay out of the media. Just because they’re in the spotlight doesn’t excuse this faux outrage and blatant deflection from Hancock and the Govt. 

Clubs up and down the country do fantastic things within their communities, players do stuff to, An unnamed local player made a massive donation to Alder Hey Children’s Hospital last week etc. I’d be here all day if I named what others have done.

Football is the #1 sport in this country, it brings people together from every walk of life, watched by millions of people every week. It’s probably the only socialising that’s some people do, families go togethe etc.

IMO football doesn’t need this negativity, it needs to be encouraged to be even more accessible and inclusive.


----------



## DanFST (Apr 5, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Turns out we aren't
		
Click to expand...

Our owners have a very strange moral compass.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It would be impossible for any football club to stay out of the media. Just because they’re in the spotlight doesn’t excuse this faux outrage and blatant deflection from Hancock and the Govt.

Clubs up and down the country do fantastic things within their communities, players do stuff to, An unnamed local player made a massive donation to Alder Hey Children’s Hospital last week etc. I’d be here all day if I named what others have done.

Football is the #1 sport in this country, it brings people together from every walk of life, watched by millions of people every week. It’s probably the only socialising that’s some people do, families go togethe etc.

IMO football doesn’t need this negativity, it needs to be encouraged to be even more accessible and inclusive.
		
Click to expand...

I love football myself and have done for over 60 years but that doesn't alter the fact that in the overall scheme of things it is still relatively unimportant. 

Many players make very significant contributions to charities and charitable foundations, often anonymously. For this they should be  applauded.

However,  the outrage is neither faux nor a deflection. 

Rather it arose as a result of clubs, rather than players,  taking advantage of the Government's efforts to help the employees of  companies under extraordinary pressure during this crisis. 

I cannot speak for others but my anger is equally directed at other companies guilty of exploiting the system.


----------



## Diamond (Apr 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It would be impossible for any football club to stay out of the media. Just because they’re in the spotlight doesn’t excuse this faux outrage and blatant deflection from Hancock and the Govt.

Clubs up and down the country do fantastic things within their communities, players do stuff to, An unnamed local player made a massive donation to Alder Hey Children’s Hospital last week etc. I’d be here all day if I named what others have done.

Football is the #1 sport in this country, it brings people together from every walk of life, watched by millions of people every week. It’s probably the only socialising that’s some people do, families go togethe etc.

IMO football doesn’t need this negativity, it needs to be encouraged to be even more accessible and inclusive.
		
Click to expand...

Currently there is no sport at all in this country. Footballers like the rest of us are self isolating but they are still making thousands of pounds every minute.  It may be that footballers will not play in front of packed stadiums until we have a vaccine, which may be 12 months off. So as for number 1 sport bringing us together then no we don’t want that.  
The government are not running the show either.  We are relying on medicine and science to the extent that churches and mosques are closed.

If football is getting negative publicity then it is really simple how they can get themselves out of it.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 5, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			I love football myself and have done for over 60 years but that doesn't alter the fact that in the overall scheme of things it is still relatively unimportant.

Many players make very significant contributions to charities and charitable foundations, often anonymously. For this they should be  applauded.

_However,  the outrage is neither faux nor a deflection._

Rather it arose as a result of clubs, rather than players,  taking advantage of the Government's efforts to help the employees of  companies under extraordinary pressure during this crisis.

*I cannot speak for others but my anger is equally directed at other companies guilty of exploiting the system.*

Click to expand...

_I disagree Mickie. There is no acceptable reason for Hancock and the Govt to hang the footballers out to dry the way they have, especially when fully paid MP’s have very successful business‘s in the uk and don’t pay a penny in tax._

I think i can safely say the majority think exactly the same as you.

Players who give either publicly or annonymously shouldn’t be given any more credit or applause than what you or I give, whether you or I give £50 or Mo Salah gives £500,000 shouldn’t matter,  after all its all relative isn’t it? 

Right now football isn’t important, but, Once this epidemic is under control and we move back to our normal everyday life football becomes important again. 

I say that as not just the 90minutes, it’s everything around it that goes with it. The friendships, the travelling, the socialising, the communities it positively affects, the local economy etc.

Keep well ol‘ boy👍🏻


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 5, 2020)

Diamond said:



			Currently there is no sport at all in this country. Footballers like the rest of us are self isolating but they are still making thousands of pounds every minute.  It may be that footballers will not play in front of packed stadiums until we have a vaccine, which may be 12 months off. So as for number 1 sport bringing us together then no we don’t want that. 
The government are not running the show either.  We are relying on medicine and science to the extent that churches and mosques are closed.

*If football is getting negative publicity then it is really simple how they can get themselves out of it.*

Click to expand...

Footballers are getting negative publicity because of Hancock’s unfair comments. No other reason.

Football clubs are drawing the heat because of their greed and furloughing staff, rightly so. 

Both are two seperate issues.


----------



## Diamond (Apr 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



_I disagree Mickie. There is no acceptable reason for Hancock and the Govt to hang the footballers out to dry the way they have, especially when fully paid MP’s have very successful business‘s in the uk and don’t pay a penny in tax._

I think i can safely say the majority think exactly the same as you.

Players who give either publicly or annonymously shouldn’t be given any more credit or applause than what you or I give, whether you or I give £50 or Mo Salah gives £500,000 shouldn’t matter,  after all its all relative isn’t it?

Right now football isn’t important, but, Once this epidemic is under control and we move back to our normal everyday life football becomes important again.

I say that as not just the 90minutes, it’s everything around it that goes with it. The friendships, the travelling, the socialising, the communities it positively affects, the local economy etc.

Keep well ol‘ boy👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

I think it’s the idiotic media who are to blame. They asked Hancock his opinion about Tottenham furloughing staff. He said it isn’t for the like of a multi million pound football club.  Which is quite true in my opinion.

The government are allowing medicine and science to decide how we fight this battle.  It’s quite clear that society will determine whether we win or lose. 

I can tell you love football but how football carries itself during this testing time will also determine the landscape in the future.

As a fellow season ticket holder there is no way I am going to go to a stadium until they have a vaccine.


----------



## Diamond (Apr 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Footballers are getting negative publicity because of Hancock’s unfair comments. No other reason.

Football clubs are drawing the heat because of their greed and furloughing staff, rightly so.

Both are two seperate issues.
		
Click to expand...

Lets be honest Liverpool’s front 3 and Citys front 3 would not be at the clubs if they were paid £500 a week.

They don’t need us to stick up for them.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 5, 2020)

Football is a big business just like any other business.
So to furlough employees should have had a profit element maybe .
So if any business made say 20 mil or over they don’t qualify. Could be less.
But to single out the players is wrong.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 5, 2020)

Diamond said:



			Lets be honest Liverpool’s front 3 and Citys front 3 would not be at the clubs if they were paid £500 a week.

They don’t need us to stick up for them.
		
Click to expand...

Neither would Bournemouth’s.

Its obvious we‘re on different paths regarding this subject, I love football and I don’t like to see any footballer of any club being hung out to dry.


----------



## Wolf (Apr 5, 2020)

Diamond said:



			Lets be honest Liverpool’s front 3 and Citys front 3 would not be at the clubs if they were paid £500 a week.

They don’t need us to stick up for them.
		
Click to expand...

Which goes to prove the club can afford to pay all its staff and shouldn't be left to its players(employees) to do so


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 5, 2020)

Just to make it clear my anger is not aimed at the players. 

It is, however,  directed at the  clubs and the players suffer some collateral damage through no fault of their own. 

If clubs can afford to continue to fully pay the players then they, the clubs, should not expect the taxpayer to pick up the tab for 80% of their non-playing staff. 

If the clubs want to ask the players to take a reduction in  salary to help pay the wages of the others then that is up to them. 

Mind you if I were  a player I would want to  be certain that the Club couldn't  otherwise afford to maintain those wages.

Beyond that it should be up to the players to decide if they, either individually or as a group,  make further charitable donations. 

So it is clear my gripe is with the clubs and not the players.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 5, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Which goes to prove the club can afford to pay all its staff and shouldn't be left to its players(employees) to do so
		
Click to expand...

This decision is not taken by “ football “ side of the club.
It’s been taken by the business side and is purely money driven by accountants etc.
It’s a PR disaster by my club and nothing to do with the playing staff imo.
People outside the game see the 120 million pound transfer fees and make their own mind up.
But if the government try to strong arm clubs then they will need to do it to every business.
Businesses are just following the rules , morals don’t really apply to business usually they just see ££££.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 5, 2020)

Oh dear Kyle Walker you stupid boy.


----------



## AmandaJR (Apr 5, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Oh dear Kyle Walker you stupid boy.
		
Click to expand...

As brainless as his defending.


----------



## Wolf (Apr 5, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Oh dear Kyle Walker you stupid boy.
		
Click to expand...

Absolute 🛎️🔚


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 5, 2020)

It’s all kicking off on Twitter over the clubs that have put staff on furlough. not great PR.


----------



## Captainron (Apr 5, 2020)

What has Kyle Walker done?


----------



## SteveW86 (Apr 5, 2020)

Captainron said:



			What has Kyle Walker done?
		
Click to expand...

looks like he had 2 escorts round to his flat for an evening of fun


----------



## garyinderry (Apr 5, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			It’s all kicking off on Twitter over the clubs that have put staff on furlough. not great PR.
		
Click to expand...


Seems the tea lady isn't that important after all. 

Real poor showing from these clubs. I dont blame the players one bit. No one cares if they get paid full wack. Just treat everyone equally.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 5, 2020)

garyinderry said:



			Seems the tea lady isn't that important after all.

Real poor showing from these clubs. I dont blame the players one bit. No one cares if they get paid full wack. Just treat everyone equally.
		
Click to expand...

Can see Spurs,Liverpool & Newcastle getting some right hammer when/if the season restarts.
Tbf Newcastle fans will have expected it from Ashley & I’ve not seen any defending it.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 5, 2020)




----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 5, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Can see Spurs,Liverpool & Newcastle getting some right hammer when/if the season restarts.
Tbf Newcastle fans will have expected it from Ashley & I’ve not seen any defending it.
		
Click to expand...

Agree but will it put other PL teams off ?
Wait and see if they have the nerve.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 5, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



View attachment 29690

Click to expand...

Fake news that’s the picture out of his office 
Can’t see what it’s got to do with Jurgen , should be a pic of the moron who made the decision.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 5, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Fake news that’s the picture out of his office 
Can’t see what it’s got to do with Jurgen , should be a pic of the moron who made the decision.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed,just saw it on Twitter & found it funny 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Fish (Apr 5, 2020)

😏😂😂


----------



## Fish (Apr 5, 2020)

👍💙


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 5, 2020)

Fish said:



			😏😂😂
		
Click to expand...

isn’t that every week for our benefits?


----------



## Fish (Apr 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			isn’t that every week for our benefits?
		
Click to expand...

Must be tough with all the scrappies shut as well😜

AnyOldIron.......😏


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 5, 2020)

Plenty of time for this to run and a few people sitting in glass houses.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 5, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Plenty of time for this to run and a few people sitting in glass houses.
		
Click to expand...

Just have to wonder why certain clubs rushed to do it?


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 5, 2020)

Fish said:



			Must be tough with all the scrappies shut as well😜

AnyOldIron.......😏
		
Click to expand...

Dont you be stopping near any, your times up 😂😂


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 5, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Just have to wonder why certain clubs rushed to do it?
		
Click to expand...

With all the dosh the government are splashing , got to get in the front of the rush.
Won’t be long now.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 5, 2020)

Fish said:



			Must be tough with all the scrappies shut as well😜

AnyOldIron.......😏
		
Click to expand...

When I think of that song it’s always a cockney singing it.


----------



## Fish (Apr 5, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			When I think of that song it’s always a cockney singing it.

Click to expand...

Obviously a happy hammer, not that they’re happy that often😏


----------



## AmandaJR (Apr 5, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Plenty of time for this to run and a few people sitting in glass houses.
		
Click to expand...

True but I'm thinking the moral high ground about dirty oil money might just be lost


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 5, 2020)

Fish said:



			Obviously a happy hammer, not that they’re happy that often😏
		
Click to expand...

I think of Dick Van Dyke and Steptoe when I hear it.
Don’t know why.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 5, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			True but I'm thinking the moral high ground about dirty oil money might just be lost 

Click to expand...

That’s never really bothered me.
Any club that says no to an oil rich sheik is mad.
We all use oil ( petrol) so it’s a bit hypocritical really.


----------



## AmandaJR (Apr 5, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s never really bothered me.
Any club that says no to an oil rich sheik is mad.
We all use oil ( petrol) so it’s a bit hypocritical really.
		
Click to expand...

Wrong Liverpool fan then - much has been said on here about it in the past!


----------



## Fish (Apr 5, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think of Dick Van Dyke and Steptoe when I hear it.
Don’t know why.

Click to expand...

Exactly, a chimney sweep and a scrappy, born Irons 😜


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 5, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Wrong Liverpool fan then - much has been said on here about it in the past!
		
Click to expand...

You might be thinking of Phil .
He’s gone missing.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 5, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			True but I'm thinking the moral high ground about dirty oil money might just be lost 

Click to expand...

Moral high ground 😂😂😂


----------



## Fish (Apr 5, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s never really bothered me.
Any club that says no to an oil rich sheik is mad.
We all use oil ( petrol) so it’s a bit hypocritical really.
		
Click to expand...

Yes but the ‘we hate Torys’, and much worse (Maggie Thatcher hatred) have always been thrown about by the ‘we’re not English were socialist scousers’ brigade, so that myth and Liverpool being a club for the people is now dead and buried with the clubs actions wanting a government handout!  

This will be irrelevant of what your players might do in hindsight to repair the PR damage done.


----------



## Fish (Apr 5, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Wrong Liverpool fan then - much has been said on here about it in the past!
		
Click to expand...

Fan 😜😂😳



clubchamp98 said:



			You might be thinking of Phil .
He’s gone missing.

Click to expand...

Thankfully


----------



## AmandaJR (Apr 5, 2020)

Footie on my TV. Premier League retro...watching for the Agueroooooooooooooo moment and hopefully another look at Phil Jones and Ferguson's faces!!


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 5, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Footie on my TV. Premier League retro...watching for the Agueroooooooooooooo moment and hopefully another look at Phil Jones and Ferguson's faces!!
		
Click to expand...


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 5, 2020)

Fish said:



			Yes but the ‘we hate Torys’, and much worse (Maggie Thatcher hatred) have always been thrown about by the ‘we’re not English were socialist scousers’ brigade, so that myth and Liverpool being a club for the people is now dead and buried with the clubs actions wanting a government handout!

This will be irrelevant of what your players might do in hindsight to repair the PR damage done.
		
Click to expand...

Not everyone in Liverpool is a socialist.
But agree the bail out is a disaster PR wise.
I must say that I can’t belive there wasn’t someone in the meeting in Liverpool before they set this in motion that never said “ just a minute is this really nessesary given the damage it may do to the reputation of the club.”
If there wasn’t that’s poor.
If there was and he / she was ignored that’s even worse.


----------



## AmandaJR (Apr 5, 2020)

86 minutes - I still feel sick watching it!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 5, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			86 minutes - I still feel sick watching it!
		
Click to expand...

It’s like Bambi .
Has a happy ending.enjoy.


----------



## AmandaJR (Apr 5, 2020)

AGUEROOOOOOOOOOOOO!

We just erupted - what a moment...never ever gets anything but truly amazing!


----------



## Jensen (Apr 5, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			AGUEROOOOOOOOOOOOO!

We just erupted - what a moment...never ever gets anything but truly amazing!
		
Click to expand...

And lots of fans run back up the concourse to celebrate 👍


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 5, 2020)

Fish said:



			Yes but the ‘we hate Torys’, and much worse (Maggie Thatcher hatred) have always been thrown about by the ‘we’re not English were socialist scousers’ brigade, so that myth and Liverpool being a club for the people is now dead and buried with the clubs actions wanting a government handout! 

This will be irrelevant of what your players might do in hindsight to repair the PR damage done.
		
Click to expand...

Haha get over yourself, the owners have very different views to the majority of the fanbase, they're US hedge fund people ffs. Like most in business they dont forgive a flying feck apart from making moolah.

See the disgust the fans see this decision, I've not seen many, if any, defending it. 

So dont tar us with the same brush as those very small number of mercenaries running our club.

As for govt handouts, I totally disagree with it, but they have paid into the pot, therefore whether we like it or not they're entitled to use it. 

Its morally wrong though. 

Btw, the hypocrisy of you and other retards on social media, have you forgotten about all the sign on jibes etc that's been thrown at us for many decades?


----------



## Fish (Apr 5, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not everyone in Liverpool is a socialist.
But agree the bail out is a disaster PR wise.
I must say that I can’t belive there wasn’t someone in the meeting in Liverpool before they set this in motion that never said “ just a minute is this really nessesary given the damage it may do to the reputation of the club.”
If there wasn’t that’s poor.
If there was and he / she was ignored that’s even worse.
		
Click to expand...

I suppose this is the result of being owned by an investment sports company based abroad (USA), no thought towards the history or beliefs of what Liverpool has been built upon, it sees the football club only as a vehicle to invest in and get a return from, nothing else matters, it’s the bottom line or nothing, so if there’s handouts to be had, they’ll grab them, and to hell with the consequences!!


----------



## Fish (Apr 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha get over yourself, the owners have very different views to the majority of the fanbase, they're US hedge fund people ffs. Like most in business they dont forgive a flying feck apart from making moolah.

See the disgust the fans see this decision, I've not seen many, if any, defending it.

So dont tar us with the same brush as those very small number of mercenaries running our club.

As for govt handouts, I totally disagree with it, but they have paid into the pot, therefore whether we like it or not they're entitled to use it.

Its morally wrong though.

Btw, the hypocrisy of you and other retards on social media, have you forgotten about all the sign on jibes etc that's been thrown at us for many decades?
		
Click to expand...

So I’m a retard?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 5, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not everyone in Liverpool is a socialist.
But agree the bail out is a disaster PR wise.
I must say that I can’t belive there wasn’t someone in the meeting in Liverpool before they set this in motion that never said “ just a minute is this really nessesary given the damage it may do to the reputation of the club.”
If there wasn’t that’s poor.
If there was and he / she was ignored that’s even worse.
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully in the future we won’t have to have the clubs morals & values rammed down our throat.
The Liverpool way 🤢


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 5, 2020)

Fish said:



			So I’m a retard?
		
Click to expand...

You're not that clever 😂😂😂


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Apr 5, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Oh dear Kyle Walker you stupid boy.
		
Click to expand...

Would love to see his club take some severe action but they won't. Flouting the rules on corona and with sex workers are two big issues surely but bet aside from a maximum club fine there won't be any other action


----------



## Fish (Apr 5, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Would love to see his club take some severe action but they won't. Flouting the rules on corona and with sex workers are two big issues surely but bet aside from a maximum club fine there won't be any other action
		
Click to expand...

What use are fines, paying thousands for a couple of tarts shows they have no value towards money, as they’re dripping with it. 

Even if it ends up with a chArity I bet he and those that get fined fiddle it through their accounts anyway. 

Flog em, birch em 😜


----------



## Liverbirdie (Apr 5, 2020)

Fish said:



			Yes but the ‘we hate Torys’, and much worse (Maggie Thatcher hatred) have always been thrown about by the ‘we’re not English were socialist scousers’ brigade, so that myth and Liverpool being a club for the people is now dead and buried with the clubs actions wanting a government handout! 

This will be irrelevant of what your players might do in hindsight to repair the PR damage done.
		
Click to expand...

Club owners dont always refelect fanbases.

Unless Roman wrote the Foreword for "defenestration of black Parisians from locomotives" and I missed it - slight poetic licence used.


----------



## Slime (Apr 5, 2020)

You posted this before the nine o'clock watershed, is that not a bit irresponsible?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 5, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Would love to see his club take some severe action but they won't. Flouting the rules on corona and with sex workers are two big issues surely but bet aside from a maximum club fine there won't be any other action
		
Click to expand...

Or he gets Knob rot.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 6, 2020)

Fish said:



			I suppose this is the result of being owned by an investment sports company based abroad (USA), no thought towards the history or beliefs of what Liverpool has been built upon, it sees the football club only as a vehicle to invest in and get a return from, nothing else matters, it’s the bottom line or nothing, so if there’s handouts to be had, they’ll grab them, and to hell with the consequences!!
		
Click to expand...

Well yes I don’t think that’s ever been denied.
Not as bad as the owner of Newcastle who has done the same thing.
It’s been very quiet about the other PL teams that have also done this before us.
And imo more will follow, .


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 6, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Hopefully in the future we won’t have to have the clubs morals & values rammed down our throat.
The Liverpool way 🤢
		
Click to expand...

Really have you had it rammed down your throat?
If so I think your taking football a little to seriously!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 6, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Or he gets Knob rot.
		
Click to expand...

Are STD clinics still open in these times ?
That could be a very silly mistake from Walker.


----------



## Fish (Apr 6, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Well yes I don’t think that’s ever been denied.
Not as bad as the owner of Newcastle who has done the same thing.
It’s been very quiet about the other PL teams that have also done this before us.
And imo more will follow, .
		
Click to expand...

I announced that Spurs had done it, possibly first, but some on here poo poo’d it, not sure why you think it’s worse that Newcastle has done it also, do they have a history of presenting themselves as a ‘people’s club’ or had just announced profits in excess of 40m?

Liverpool are the biggest surprise amongst those that have made this decision, irrelevant of who else may follow, it will be yourselves in the headlights and fans of other clubs will jump on any & every opportunity to have a dig, and no doubt you’ll be reminded on the terraces when we resume to normality. 

If your clubs internal PR machine wasn’t consulted or were out voted by higher powers based overseas, then is this an indicator of what is to come and the fabric of the club built by fans starts to erode as the owners clearly show no thought process or relationship between themselves and the fans and will only ever do what is best for their margins, irrelevant of the PR consequences, so have the owners showed their true colours in this scenario, and if so, what could it mean in the future when things don’t go as well as they are currently, do they have a sharper edge to these rounded corners we’ve only seen so far, in that, when things stutter or fall away, the investments slow or get withdrawn and you get sold off, (how many years did we hear this from opposing fans towards Chelsea), isn’t that what investment companies do, but not so much private owners, they either invest & build success to sell at huge profits or dump when it becomes a drain, or have the owners become PL football fans and bought into the hype, but this decision would say not, wouldn’t it?


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2020)

Fish said:



			I announced that Spurs had done it, possibly first, but some on here poo poo’d it, not sure why you think it’s worse that Newcastle has done it also, do they have a history of presenting themselves as a ‘people’s club’ or had just announced profits in excess of 40m?

Liverpool are the biggest surprise amongst those that have made this decision, irrelevant of who else may follow, it will be yourselves in the headlights and fans of other clubs will jump on any & every opportunity to have a dig, and no doubt you’ll be reminded on the terraces when we resume to normality.

If your clubs internal PR machine wasn’t consulted or were out voted by higher powers based overseas, *then is this an indicator of what is to come and the fabric of the club built by fans starts to erode *as the owners clearly show no thought process or relationship between themselves and the fans and will only ever do what is best for their margins, irrelevant of the PR consequences, *so have the owners showed their true colours in this scenario*, and if so, what could it mean in the future when things don’t go as well as they are currently, *do they have a sharper edge to these rounded corners we’ve only seen so far, in that, when things stutter or fall away, the investments slow or get withdrawn and you get sold off*, (how many years did we hear this from opposing fans towards Chelsea), isn’t that what investment companies do, but not so much private owners, they either invest & build success to sell at huge profits or dump when it becomes a drain, o*r have the owners become PL football fans and bought into the hype,* but this decision would say not, wouldn’t it?
		
Click to expand...

Where did you copy and paste this from Fishy? 🤭🤭🤭

Peoples Club?? Wrong club Fishy, they're across the park 😉

I'm sure we'll cope with the "bantz", I just hope whatever ditty's are made will be originals and funny.....

The fabric of the club will not erode, us fans will not let it happen. We will continue to hold the "owners" accountable  and any decision they make will be challenged, just like this one has.

Owners true colours?? We all know these are in it for the money, like many other PL club Owners. They may not have the same affinity to us as say The Moores Family did but I dont expect them too.

The owners are primarily an investment group, these are very wealthy investors. Their aim is to be successful on and off the pitch to make as much dollar as they can. 
If things start to go pear shaped on and off the pitch they wont lose money, that's business.

They can still be "fans". No owner makes business decisions with their fans hat on. Any financial business decision is made in the interests of the financial side of the business. Football has changed of fans owning football clubs, millionaires arent enough in this  billionaires game

This lot have done some great stuff with communities/fans/city etc and I'm sure they'll continue to do so but they've also made some seriously stupid decisions which the fans have rightly opposed and held them accountable. 

The supporters union has approached the club and will hold them accountable. 

If only all owners were as good as Roman eh.....


----------



## Fish (Apr 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Where did you copy and paste this from Fishy? 🤭🤭🤭

Peoples Club?? Wrong club Fishy, they're across the park 😉

I'm sure we'll cope with the "bantz", I just hope whatever ditty's are made will be originals and funny.....

The fabric of the club will not erode, us fans will not let it happen. We will continue to hold the "owners" accountable  and any decision they make will be challenged, just like this one has.

Owners true colours?? We all know these are in it for the money, like many other PL club Owners. They may not have the same affinity to us as say The Moores Family did but I dont expect them too.

The owners are primarily an investment group, these are very wealthy investors. Their aim is to be successful on and off the pitch to make as much dollar as they can.
If things start to go pear shaped on and off the pitch they wont lose money, that's business.

They can still be "fans". No owner makes business decisions with their fans hat on. Any financial business decision is made in the interests of the financial side of the business. Football has changed of fans owning football clubs, millionaires arent enough in this  billionaires game

This lot have done some great stuff with communities/fans/city etc and I'm sure they'll continue to do so but they've also made some seriously stupid decisions which the fans have rightly opposed and held them accountable.

The supporters union has approached the club and will hold them accountable.

If only all owners were as good as Roman eh.....
		
Click to expand...

I don’t copy & paste or exclusively use Google, I don't need to, I've history 😏


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2020)

Fish said:



			I don’t copy & paste or exclusively use Google, I don't need to, I've history 😏
		
Click to expand...

😂😂Ooooh, I've even had a like......


Dont be shy Phil, come and say hi🤭

 I must say considering you're not very well liked by most, you've been missed by many 😁


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 6, 2020)

Fish said:



			I announced that Spurs had done it, possibly first, but some on here poo poo’d it, not sure why you think it’s worse that Newcastle has done it also, do they have a history of presenting themselves as a ‘people’s club’ or had just announced profits in excess of 40m?

Liverpool are the biggest surprise amongst those that have made this decision, irrelevant of who else may follow, it will be yourselves in the headlights and fans of other clubs will jump on any & every opportunity to have a dig, and no doubt you’ll be reminded on the terraces when we resume to normality.

If your clubs internal PR machine wasn’t consulted or were out voted by higher powers based overseas, then is this an indicator of what is to come and the fabric of the club built by fans starts to erode as the owners clearly show no thought process or relationship between themselves and the fans and will only ever do what is best for their margins, irrelevant of the PR consequences, so have the owners showed their true colours in this scenario, and if so, what could it mean in the future when things don’t go as well as they are currently, do they have a sharper edge to these rounded corners we’ve only seen so far, in that, when things stutter or fall away, the investments slow or get withdrawn and you get sold off, (how many years did we hear this from opposing fans towards Chelsea), isn’t that what investment companies do, but not so much private owners, they either invest & build success to sell at huge profits or dump when it becomes a drain, or have the owners become PL football fans and bought into the hype, but this decision would say not, wouldn’t it?
		
Click to expand...

I meant the owners were not as bad as Ashley imo of course.
But we don’t see what they do in the States or elsewhere so not really qualified to comment.
They are buisness people and take monetary decisions.
We won’t be the first club to take taxpayers money and won’t be the last.
But that’s got nothing to do with the fans.
I haven't heard one in favour of this yet, in fact quite the opposite.
I would put Newcastle and other PL teams in the same boat as us , greedy owners  but nothing to do with the fans.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 6, 2020)

Fish said:



			I don’t copy & paste or exclusively use Google, I don't need to, I've history 😏
		
Click to expand...

Just had a quick Google and have a question for you.
Have Chelsea ever used taxpayers money to pay staff wages to train prisoners to be football coaches ?
I don’t belive all I read in the papers so some clarity would be good.


----------



## AmandaJR (Apr 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			😂😂Ooooh, I've even had a like......


Dont be shy Phil, come and say hi🤭

I must say considering you're not very well liked by most, you've been missed by many 😁
		
Click to expand...

Have you only just noticed your sycophantic liker is back? Hope he just stays liking all your posts and nothing more!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 6, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just had a quick Google and have a question for you.
Have Chelsea ever used taxpayers money to pay staff wages to train prisoners to be football coaches ?
I don’t belive all I read in the papers so some clarity would be good.
		
Click to expand...

While you’re busy looking for “dirt” on other Clubs, try FSG and cheating or Chinese Water etc.

Or......don’t let Fish get in your head.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			While you’re busy looking for “dirt” on other Clubs, try FSG and cheating or Chinese Water etc.

Or......don’t let Fish get in your head.

Click to expand...

Just trying to find out my taxes are not just being spent in Liverpool.
And all Russian Oligarchs are getting their fair share!


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Have you only just noticed your sycophantic liker is back? Hope he just stays liking all your posts and nothing more!
		
Click to expand...

I was alerted yesterday by a more inquisitive forummer who will remain anonymous.

I miss him tbh. I don't agree with everything he says, he makes some good points at times though the haters will always hate.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 6, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just trying to find out my taxes are not just being spent in Liverpool.
And all Russian Oligarchs are getting their fair share!
		
Click to expand...

But digging up all the dirt you like snd going tit for tat won’t change anything.

Be like Stu_C, own it and accept the stick, it’ll be another Club soon enough.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			But digging up all the dirt you like snd going tit for tat won’t change anything.

Be like Stu_C, own it and accept the stick, it’ll be another Club soon enough.
		
Click to expand...

Dont be like me CC, I wouldnt wish that on my worst enemy.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I was alerted yesterday by a more *inquisitive forummer who will remain anonymous.*

I miss him tbh. I don't agree with everything he says, he makes some good points at times though the haters will always hate.
		
Click to expand...

Me Stu, it was me who mentioned it.

I don’t see eye to eye with LP, but I’d have him back on here rather than some others we see, then again I don’t see them as I use the ignore function, just like others could on LP.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			But digging up all the dirt you like snd going tit for tat won’t change anything.

Be like Stu_C, own it and accept the stick, it’ll be another Club soon enough.
		
Click to expand...

It’s not the money .
He has questioned the morals of it when his own club has done it in the past.
I have nothing else to do.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Dont be like me CC, I wouldnt wish that on my worst enemy.
		
Click to expand...

It might be a stir crazy temporary thing.
But questioning morals means you must be sqeaky clean.
Don’t think Roman is that!


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Me Stu, it was me who mentioned it.

I don’t see eye to eye with LP, but I’d have him back on here rather than some others we see, then again I don’t see them as I use the ignore function, just like others could on LP.
		
Click to expand...

See eye to eye?? It's a golf forum ffs, a bit of fun and sometimes good debate. 

People need to grow up and get a grip of themselves. 

I try to treat people on here the same way as I would to them in  person. Is it really worth having enemies on a internet chat platform??


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			See eye to eye?? It's a golf forum ffs, a bit of fun and sometimes good debate.

People need to grow up and get a grip of themselves.

I try to treat people on here the same way as I would to them in  person. Is it really worth having enemies on a internet chat platform??
		
Click to expand...

Yes, eye to eye, as in differing opinions! Isn’t that what debate is about? 

I think you’ve read too much into that one mate.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			See eye to eye?? It's a golf forum ffs, a bit of fun and sometimes good debate.

People need to grow up and get a grip of themselves.

I try to treat people on here the same way as I would to them in  person. Is it really worth having enemies on a internet chat platform??
		
Click to expand...

Spot on .
A good debate is good for your mental state.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Apr 6, 2020)

Fish said:



			I announced that Spurs had done it, possibly first, but some on here poo poo’d it, not sure why you think it’s worse that Newcastle has done it also, do they have a history of presenting themselves as a ‘people’s club’ or had just announced profits in excess of 40m?

Liverpool are the biggest surprise amongst those that have made this decision, irrelevant of who else may follow, it will be yourselves in the headlights and fans of other clubs will jump on any & every opportunity to have a dig, and no doubt you’ll be reminded on the terraces when we resume to normality.

If your clubs internal PR machine wasn’t consulted or were out voted by higher powers based overseas, then is this an indicator of what is to come and the fabric of the club built by fans starts to erode as the owners clearly show no thought process or relationship between themselves and the fans and will only ever do what is best for their margins, irrelevant of the PR consequences, so have the owners showed their true colours in this scenario, and if so, what could it mean in the future when things don’t go as well as they are currently, do they have a sharper edge to these rounded corners we’ve only seen so far, in that, when things stutter or fall away, the investments slow or get withdrawn and you get sold off, (how many years did we hear this from opposing fans towards Chelsea), isn’t that what investment companies do, but not so much private owners, they either invest & build success to sell at huge profits or dump when it becomes a drain, or have the owners become PL football fans and bought into the hype, but this decision would say not, wouldn’t it?
		
Click to expand...

Do I see a high horse with stilts on before my eyes?

I'm not sure if the owners/club have ever said that they were socialist, but it is a stance that the local fanbase adopts (although not all, obviously). As Stu said, we will try to hold them account and alter behaviour from the bottom up, which is all we can try and do as a fanbase.

A bit different to Chelsea's anti-semitic campaign which could be seen as trying to change "behaviours" from the top down. A very laudable stance BTW, by the club.


----------



## AmandaJR (Apr 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I was alerted yesterday by a more inquisitive forummer who will remain anonymous.

I miss him tbh. I don't agree with everything he says, he makes some good points at times though the haters will always hate.
		
Click to expand...

It's the "dog with a bone I'm right, you're wrong and I'll keep battering on until you submit" attitude that just ruins an otherwise, possibly informative debate. I cannot imagine how the coronavirus thread would be with him posting...although to be fair to hear his reaction to the current debate on Liverpool might be fun!


----------



## AmandaJR (Apr 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Me Stu, it was me who mentioned it.

I don’t see eye to eye with LP, but I’d have him back on here rather than some others we see, then again I don’t see them as I use the ignore function, just like others could on LP.
		
Click to expand...

I've had him on ignore but he's so flipping prolific it makes threads impossible to read.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Yes, eye to eye, as in differing opinions! Isn’t that what debate is about?

I think you’ve read too much into that one mate.

Click to expand...

Ah now that's 2 different things in my book......fwiw it was a general comment  not just aimed at you


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 6, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			I've had him on ignore but he's so flipping prolific it makes threads impossible to read.
		
Click to expand...

I’ve hit that wall with some, viewed the thread and then remember why their on ignore.

Just like real life, we don’t tolerate everyone we cross paths with, but 99% of the forum is decent.


----------



## Wolf (Apr 6, 2020)

I think LP should come back and post, I've disagreed with him as much as others have but we're all guilty at times of getting on our high horse or being a little pedantic. For all of his comments many may not like he also posts some quite interesting views. Forums shouldn't be about only posting and agreeing with like minded individuals, you need different opinions and there are far worse people still posting some absolute tripe on here.

Bring back LP I say, if people don't like it just read on as you would with anyone else.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			It's the "dog with a bone I'm right, you're wrong and I'll keep battering on until you submit" attitude that just ruins an otherwise, possibly informative debate. I cannot imagine how the coronavirus thread would be with him posting...although to be fair to hear his reaction to the current debate on Liverpool might be fun!
		
Click to expand...

Yeah there's plenty more of them in every thread, even the CV thread he's not alone there.... theres also the few who respond to every one of his posts who prod and poke. 

I disagree with most of what he says but I try to say my piece then move on. It really is that simple.

Knowing he's a staunch FSG man and mouthpiece he'll be one of the few who thinks it's ok 🤭😉

I cant believe considering how many dislike him, your all poking and making snidey little digs about him 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah there's plenty more of them in every thread, even the CV thread he's not alone there.... theres also the few who respond to every one of his posts who prod and poke.

I disagree with most of what he says but I try to say my piece then move on. It really is that simple.

Knowing he's a staunch FSG man and mouthpiece he'll be one of the few who thinks it's ok 🤭😉

I cant believe considering how many dislike him, your all poking and making snidey little digs about him 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Feck me just read that back and i sound like his Agent/PR man.....I hate him too 😂😂


----------



## Captainron (Apr 6, 2020)

@Liverpoolphil has bee told by many knowledgeable people that he should stick to hockey and he is doing that.....


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Feck me just read that back and i sound like his Agent/PR man.....I hate him too 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Good timing that! Was just about to rip your previous post to bits.😂😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Good timing that! Was just about to rip your previous post to bits.😂😂
		
Click to expand...

I stand by my post though....


----------



## AmandaJR (Apr 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah there's plenty more of them in every thread, even the CV thread he's not alone there.... theres also the few who respond to every one of his posts who prod and poke.

I disagree with most of what he says but I try to say my piece then move on. It really is that simple.

Knowing he's a staunch FSG man and mouthpiece he'll be one of the few who thinks it's ok 🤭😉
*
I cant believe considering how many dislike him, your all poking and making snidey little digs about him* 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Well I don't tend to make snidey digs about people I like. I don't dislike him, don't even know him, but do dislike how he disrupts this forum. I don't engage with him as there's no point (unless I agree 100% with his view) and agree others do and prod and poke but if they didn't he'd just have a vehicle for his opinion on anything and everything.


----------



## Slime (Apr 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			😂😂Ooooh, I've even had a like......


Dont be shy Phil, come and say hi🤭

*I must say considering you're not very well liked by most, you've been missed by many* 😁
		
Click to expand...

Come on guys, give him a break.
He posts nothing and still gets hammered.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Well I don't tend to make snidey digs about people I like. I don't dislike him, don't even know him, but do dislike how he disrupts this forum. I don't engage with him as there's no point (unless I agree 100% with his view) and agree others do and prod and poke but if they didn't he'd just have a vehicle for his opinion on anything and everything.
		
Click to expand...

it’s obvious you dislike him, you’re posting about him and he hasn’t posted for nearly a month 😂😂 Post #11778 & #11791 suggest to me you do, though you don’t think so I’ll leave it there.

He plays his part with many other to disrupt the forum, but as you agree if others never trolled him and ignore him he’d go away.


----------



## Fish (Apr 6, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			It’s not the money .
He has questioned the morals of it when his own club has done it in the past.
I have nothing else to do.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂I’ve had to pull over😂😂

Morals, you really think you can compare what looks like where the government have approached a club (Chelsea, possibly others) and asked them to assist in offering their expertise and facilities for a subsidy of wages to help rehabilitate offenders to that of a free taxpayers handout in the midst of a world pandemic where everyone is having to make sacrifices 😂

jog on......


----------



## Fish (Apr 6, 2020)

Captainron said:



@Liverpoolphil has bee told by many knowledgeable people that he should stick to hockey and he is doing that.....
		
Click to expand...

Thank puck for that 😏


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2020)

Fish said:



			😂😂*I’ve had to pull over*😂😂

Morals, you really think you can compare what looks like where the government have approached a club (Chelsea, possibly others) and asked them to assist in offering their expertise and facilities for a subsidy of wages to help rehabilitate offenders to that of a free taxpayers handout in the midst of a world pandemic where everyone is having to make sacrifices 😂

jog on......
		
Click to expand...

Fishy, is your horse tired?? 😆😆😆


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2020)

Fish said:



			Thank puck for that 😏
		
Click to expand...

Wrong sport mate, but close 😂😂


----------



## Fish (Apr 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Fishy, is your horse tired?? 😆😆😆
		
Click to expand...

No, it’s racing along with all the BS I’m feeding it off here 😏


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 6, 2020)

Fish said:



			😂😂I’ve had to pull over😂😂

Morals, you really think you can compare what looks like where the government have approached a club (Chelsea, possibly others) and asked them to assist in offering their expertise and facilities for a subsidy of wages to help rehabilitate offenders to that of a free taxpayers handout in the midst of a world pandemic where everyone is having to make sacrifices 😂

jog on......
		
Click to expand...

Thought it was about Morals and history of the club?
Well it’s all about money that’s ok then.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2020)

Fish said:



			No, it’s racing along with all the BS I’m feeding it off here 😏
		
Click to expand...

At least you’ve got plenty if it runs out here, giddy up😂😂


----------



## ferenezejohn (Apr 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It would be impossible for any football club to stay out of the media. Just because they’re in the spotlight doesn’t excuse this faux outrage and blatant deflection from Hancock and the Govt. 

Clubs up and down the country do fantastic things within their communities, players do stuff to, An unnamed local player made a massive donation to Alder Hey Children’s Hospital last week etc. I’d be here all day if I named what others have done.

Football is the #1 sport in this country, it brings people together from every walk of life, watched by millions of people every week. It’s probably the only socialising that’s some people do, families go togethe etc.

IMO football doesn’t need this negativity, it needs to be encouraged to be even more accessible and inclusive.
		
Click to expand...

Football needs to be more accessible and inclusive.

Football in general don't  give a toss about the ordinary fan, that is why you need to subscribe to multiple organisations to watch it now, pure greed.
The reason football is getting stick is their using selective furloughs, which hits the poorly paid and protects those on obscene money.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2020)

ferenezejohn said:



			Football needs to be more accessible and inclusive.
Football in general don't  give a toss about the ordinary fan, that is why you need to subscribe to multiple organisations to watch it now, pure greed.
*The reason football is getting stick is their using selective furloughs, which hits the poorly paid and protects those on obscene money*.
		
Click to expand...

Generally yes, but All PL do great things in their communities. Locally Both Liverpool and Everton have been excellent in the last few years, more so Everton.

Footballers are getting stick for not giving their wages away, which is wrong, being hung out to dry by the Secretary of State but yet the same person isn’t encouraging his cabinet colleagues to make sure their company’s pay the right amount of tax. Double standards and deflection right in front of us.

Any club using Furlough to pay staff deserve every single bit of criticism that comes their way. There is no defence.


----------



## DaveR (Apr 6, 2020)

Slime said:



			Come on guys, give him a break.
He posts nothing and still gets hammered.
		
Click to expand...

He is probably a much nicer person in real life than some of the keyboard warriors on here who are slagging him off.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Apr 6, 2020)

Captainron said:



@Liverpoolphil has bee told by many knowledgeable people that he should stick to hockey and he is doing that.....
		
Click to expand...

Some should stick to cricket, as well.


----------



## fundy (Apr 6, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Some should stick to cricket, as well.

Click to expand...


message received


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2020)

DaveR said:



			He is probably a much nicer person in real life than some of the keyboard warriors on here who are slagging him off.
		
Click to expand...

I’ve had the Displeasure of not only meeting him but playing a round of golf with and I can confirm his Nickname of “ Warwick Hunt” is accurate. Good golfer though.


----------



## Imurg (Apr 6, 2020)

Seems the Bundesliga are back in training....


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2020)

FIFA extend 2019-20 season allowing individual countries to decode when the seasons can finish. Great news.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Seems the Bundesliga are back in training....

Click to expand...

Only in small groups though, though I think it’s good news given the circumstances.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Apr 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			message received 

Click to expand...

Not for you petal. 

You have some semblance of footy (for a gooner), Cam has none.


----------



## Fish (Apr 6, 2020)

I hope it’s not sick fake news, but just read Peps mother has died of the virus 😟

No it’s official 

https://www.skysports.com/share/11969396


----------



## AmandaJR (Apr 6, 2020)

Fish said:



			I hope it’s not sick fake news, but just read Peps mother has died of the virus 😟

No it’s official

https://www.skysports.com/share/11969396

Click to expand...

Very sad for Pep. This virus will take many more and destroy many more families...heartbreaking.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 6, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1247215236815507468
Let’s see if the other clubs are also shamed into it.


----------



## Slime (Apr 6, 2020)

Fish said:



			I hope it’s not sick fake news, but just read *Peps mother has died of the virus *😟

No it’s official

https://www.skysports.com/share/11969396

Click to expand...

Although it's very sad, it should be realised that she has died *with the virus *and not necessarily *of the virus*.
A subtle, but important, difference.


----------



## Fish (Apr 6, 2020)

Slime said:



			Although it's very sad, it should be realised that she has died *with the virus *and not necessarily *of the virus*.
A subtle, but important, difference.
		
Click to expand...

That’ll be the case with a quite a few,  it will have made a contributory factor though.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 6, 2020)

Slime said:



			Although it's very sad, it should be realised that she has died *with the virus *and not necessarily *of the virus*.
A subtle, but important, difference.
		
Click to expand...

Important to who! The poor lady has died, have a bit of respect.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 6, 2020)

Well done to Liverpool. 

It takes strength to so publicly admit that they got it wrong. 

I was very critical of them (and others) for taking advantage of the Government's furlough scheme but at least now they have acknowledged their mistake and reversed their decision. 

Well done to the fans groups who,I believe, made their feelings clear.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 6, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			Well done to Liverpool.

It takes strength to so publicly admit that they got it wrong.

I was very critical of them (and others) for taking advantage of the Government's furlough scheme but at least now they have acknowledged their mistake and reversed their decision.

Well done to the fans groups who,I believe, made their feelings clear.
		
Click to expand...

More like they realized it was PR nightmare.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			Well done to Liverpool.

It takes strength to so publicly admit that they got it wrong.

I was very critical of them (and others) for taking advantage of the Government's furlough scheme but at least now they have acknowledged their mistake and reversed their decision.

Well done to the fans groups who,I believe, made their feelings clear.
		
Click to expand...

And not for the 1st time Mickie. We will continue to hold the owners of our club accountable.

The walkout against £77 ticket prices, The fight against them trying to copyright Liverpool and now this.

It proves the fans can still have an influence if we stick together.


----------



## pauljames87 (Apr 6, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			Well done to Liverpool.

It takes strength to so publicly admit that they got it wrong.

I was very critical of them (and others) for taking advantage of the Government's furlough scheme but at least now they have acknowledged their mistake and reversed their decision.

Well done to the fans groups who,I believe, made their feelings clear.
		
Click to expand...

lets hope the rest of the league follow suit

its almost like man united, city announced they werent going to do it to show up liverpool more


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 6, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			More like they realized it was PR nightmare.
		
Click to expand...

But that PR nightmare hasn't bothered other clubs.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			lets hope the rest of the league follow suit

its almost like man united, city announced they werent going to do it to show up liverpool more
		
Click to expand...

They listened to their own fans 1st and foremost and realised they’d fecked up. There wasn’t many, if any, who agreed with them.

Even when we walked out over the ticket prices, there was still a few backing them. 

City & Yernited  doing what they did was just a point scoring exercise.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 6, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			But that PR nightmare hasn't bothered other clubs.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah maybe Liverpool FC just realized the error of their ways 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			They listened to their own fans 1st and foremost and realised they’d fecked up. There wasn’t many, if any, who agreed with them.

Even when we walked out over the ticket prices, there was still a few backing them.

City & Yernited  doing what they did was just a point scoring exercise.
		
Click to expand...

Come on Stu, they’ve been there over 10yrs, they know the Fan base and the City and the Media, this has been a shambles and obviously when they made this decision they didn’t really care what you fans thought, it was purely a financial decision.


----------



## Slime (Apr 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Important to who! The poor lady has died, have a bit of respect.
		
Click to expand...

Read my post more thoroughly.
I mentioned, right at the start, that it was sad news.
I also believe that accurate reporting is of benefit to everybody.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Come on Stu, they’ve been there over 10yrs, they know the Fan base and the City and the Media, this has been a shambles and obviously when they made this decision they didn’t really care what you fans thought, it was purely a financial decision.
		
Click to expand...

I said pretty much all of that from the start, do you really  believe theyve u-turned on this because of City and Yernited said they're  paying their staff full wages?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 6, 2020)

Slime said:



			Read my post more thoroughly.
I mentioned, right at the start, that it was sad news.
I also believe that accurate reporting is of benefit to everybody.
		
Click to expand...

How exactly will you, me or the man on the moon benefit from knowing how his mother died, Fish’s link clearly stated she died after contracting coronavirus.

Any other information is irrelevant to anyone on this forum and has zero impact on our lives.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I said pretty much all of that from the start, do you really  believe theyve u-turned on this because of City and Yernited said they're  paying their staff full wages?
		
Click to expand...

They’ve u-turned because of the impact in the media, fans, ex-players, etc, everywhere, yes some more than others.
But it still goes back to the original point that they must of believed it wasn’t an issue.


----------



## Slime (Apr 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			How exactly will you, me or the man on the moon benefit from knowing how his mother died, Fish’s link clearly stated she died after contracting coronavirus.

Any other information is irrelevant to anyone on this forum and has zero impact on our lives.
		
Click to expand...

Fishy reported that she'd sadly died OF the virus.
The link says she died AFTER CONTRACTING the virus, which would lead most people to believe that it was the virus that killed her, which is not necesarily the case. It may be the case, but it may not be. If it's important enough to be reported on, report hard facts rather than leave people making assumptions.
Surely you can see that accurate reporting is beneficial.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			They’ve u-turned because of the impact in the media, fans, ex-players, etc, everywhere, yes some more than others.
But it still goes back to the original point that they must of believed it wasn’t an issue.
		
Click to expand...

The fans have never been this vocal since the ticket walk out fiasco, even then there was splitters in the ranks then. I cant remember seeing 1 fan this last 3 days back this, even the usual FSG cant do no wrong brigade. 

Yes the media and ex players played their part but dont underestimate how big of an impact the fans have had on this decision. 

Of course they thought it would be alright that's why they done it, they released a very vague statement on friday tea time and pissed off for the weekend. 

Like I said few days ago, they're entitled to use it but its morally wrong.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			The fans have never been this vocal since the ticket walk out fiasco, even then there was splitters in the ranks then. I cant remember seeing 1 fan this last 3 days back this, even the usual FSG cant do no wrong brigade.

Yes the media and ex players played their part but dont underestimate how big of an impact the fans have had on this decision.

Of course they thought it would be alright that's why they done it, they released a very vague statement on friday tea time and pissed off for the weekend.

Like I said few days ago, they're entitled to use it but its morally wrong.
		
Click to expand...

I’m agreeing with you about your fans, I know the good yous of done, what I can’t believe is how they underestimated yous, it’s either ignorance or they really don’t care about fans opinion.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 6, 2020)

Slime said:



			Fishy reported that she'd sadly died OF the virus.
The link says she died AFTER CONTRACTING the virus, which would lead most people to believe that it was the virus that killed her, which is not necesarily the case. It may be the case, but it may not be. If it's important enough to be reported on, report hard facts rather than leave people making assumptions.
Surely you can see that accurate reporting is beneficial.
		
Click to expand...

In this case no, absolutely irrelevant to anyone on this forum.
He’s lost his mam, condolences to him and his family. End of.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 6, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I’m agreeing with you about your fans, I know the good yous of done, what I can’t believe is how they underestimated yous, it’s either ignorance or they really don’t care about fans opinion.
		
Click to expand...

Ahhh sorry, I misread your post....

I believe they’ve looked at situation and have needed to cut back on outgoings, like all businesses have, and thought using the furlough scheme Is acceptable. Which it is but morally wrong in football.

Don’t forget, furlough is used often in the US, the men making the decisions are yanks.


----------



## Mudball (Apr 6, 2020)

Another sad one..
Coronavirus: Man City manager Pep Guardiola's mother dies after contracting COVID-19
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...ther-dies-after-contracting-covid-19-11969418


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Ahhh sorry, I misread your post....

I believe they’ve looked at situation and have needed to cut back on outgoings, like all businesses have, and thought using the furlough scheme Is acceptable. Which it is but morally wrong in football.

Don’t forget, furlough is used often in the US, the men making the decisions are yanks.
		
Click to expand...

I did read on Twitter they’ve kept the Boston staff on pay.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 6, 2020)

I still think it’s not done any good for the club.
It was a very poor decision in the first place.
Yes they have reversed it but it has damaged the good name of the club.
But that’s money men for you.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 6, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I still think it’s not done any good for the club.
It was a very poor decision in the first place.
Yes they have reversed it but it has damaged the good name of the club.
But that’s money men for you.
		
Click to expand...

Good name??? 😳😂😂


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 6, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Good name??? 😳😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Can’t please everyone!.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Apr 7, 2020)

At least the owners reversed their actions. I was always brought up being told it took the bigger man to admit they were wrong.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 7, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			At least the owners reversed their actions. I was always brought up being told it took the bigger man to admit they were wrong.
		
Click to expand...

Or a thrashing on Twitter.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 7, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1247244212476706818
Nice touch from Dunc.


----------



## Orikoru (Apr 7, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1247244212476706818
Nice touch from Dunc.
		
Click to expand...

He also tracked down the burglars and murdered them in cold blood with his bare hands and teeth.


----------



## Mudball (Apr 7, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			He also tracked down the burglars and murdered them in cold blood with his bare hands and teeth.
		
Click to expand...

That would have happened if he was a Milwall granddad..


----------



## Jensen (Apr 7, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			He also tracked down the burglars and murdered them in cold blood with his bare hands and teeth.
		
Click to expand...

Got what they deserved


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 7, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Got what they deserved
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂 he never really.


----------



## Fish (Apr 8, 2020)

Jose & Spurs hit the headlines again, and for all the wrong reasons, again, how stupid can he/they be, training in a public park?


----------



## Fish (Apr 8, 2020)

Chelsea leading by example 💙


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 8, 2020)

Fish said:



			Jose & Spurs hit the headlines again, and for all the wrong reasons, again, how stupid can he/they be, training in a public park?
		
Click to expand...

Stupidity, even if social distancing was adhered.

I expect there'll be no national outcry about it though.


----------



## Jensen (Apr 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Stupidity, even if social distancing was adhered.

I expect there'll be no national outcry about it though.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think so...


----------



## Jensen (Apr 8, 2020)

Fish said:



			Jose & Spurs hit the headlines again, and for all the wrong reasons, again, how stupid can he/they be, training in a public park?
		
Click to expand...

Ah, The Poison One 🙄


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 8, 2020)

Fish said:



			Jose & Spurs hit the headlines again, and for all the wrong reasons, again, how stupid can he/they be, training in a public park?
		
Click to expand...

Brain dead.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Stupidity, even if social distancing was adhered.
*
I expect there'll be no national outcry about it though*.
		
Click to expand...

Seriously?? 🎻 🎻 🎻


----------



## Orikoru (Apr 8, 2020)

Jose obviously decided that these particular three players were unable to work from home.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 8, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Seriously?? 🎻 🎻 🎻
		
Click to expand...

Do you ever tire of being an absolute troll?

I’ll feed you a bone....

Yes seriously. 

The Scottish CMO lost her job for unnecessarily travelling after a national outcry on Sunday, Jose has broken the “no more than 2 people gathering“ rules by training with 3 other members of the spurs team.

Theres similarities of people in high positions ignoring the rules hence my post re national outcry!!


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Do you ever tire of being an absolute troll?

I’ll feed you a bone....

Yes seriously.

The Scottish CMO lost her job for unnecessarily travelling after a national outcry on Sunday, Jose has broken the “no more than 2 people gathering“ rules by training with 3 other members of the spurs team.

Theres similarities of people in high positions ignoring the rules hence my post re national outcry!!
		
Click to expand...

Bit harsh


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 8, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Bit harsh
		
Click to expand...

Report it.


----------



## Jensen (Apr 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Do you ever tire of being an absolute troll?

I’ll feed you a bone....

Yes seriously.

The Scottish CMO lost her job for unnecessarily travelling after a national outcry on Sunday, Jose has broken the “no more than 2 people gathering“ rules by training with 3 other members of the spurs team.

Theres similarities of people in high positions ignoring the rules hence my post re national outcry!!
		
Click to expand...

Well hopefully Levy can now sack him, never a perfect opponent 🤞
Due to the extraordinarily circumstances, it might not even cost us a quid. 😄


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 8, 2020)

Fish said:



			Chelsea leading by example 💙

View attachment 29789

Click to expand...

That’s very good from the club. I am impressed!


----------



## Jensen (Apr 8, 2020)

never a perfect opportunity 🙄


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Report it.
		
Click to expand...

I’m no snitch 👍🏻


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 8, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			I’m no snitch 👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

Nobody likes a grass.
Chill out boys it’s still morning.
Let’s be nice to each other.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 8, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Nobody likes a grass.
Chill out boys it’s still morning.
Let’s be nice to each other.
		
Click to expand...

Are you for real!! Every post from him on this thread is a dig at your lot, never joins a conversation, just prods!

As for the “I’m no snitch”! 😂😂 how old are those saying that? The mods ask for help to stop these situations getting out of hand!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Are you for real!! Every post from him on this thread is a dig at your lot, never joins a conversation, just prods!

As for the “I’m no snitch”! 😂😂 how old are those saying that? The mods ask for help to stop these situations getting out of hand!
		
Click to expand...

Very easy to ignore him!
That’s just jealousy like most prem supporters,it was Man Utd ,then City now us. It’s expected.
That’s his style if you don’t like it don’t join in.
If it gets to you he’s winning.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 8, 2020)




----------



## Wolf (Apr 8, 2020)

Sounds like a few people on here today are on there masculine menstrual cycles having a little bitch at each other.. Sadly these "Meriods" seem never ending with current lockdown as people haven't got anything better to do.


----------



## Orikoru (Apr 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Are you for real!! Every post from him on this thread is a dig at your lot, never joins a conversation, just prods!

As for the “I’m no snitch”! 😂😂 how old are those saying that? The mods ask for help to stop these situations getting out of hand!
		
Click to expand...

There is a difference between 'getting out of hand' and people blowing things up out of all proportion.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 8, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			There is a difference between 'getting out of hand' and people blowing things up out of all proportion. 

Click to expand...

Check his posts!


----------



## Orikoru (Apr 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Check his posts!
		
Click to expand...

I don't need to, I have eyes and a memory. If he's so clearly on the wind-up why do people have to bite every single time? This time he only said one word and Stuart was like Pacman, chomp chomp chomp.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 8, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I don't need to, I have eyes and a memory. If he's so clearly on the wind-up why do people have to bite every single time? This time he only said one word and Stuart was like Pacman, chomp chomp chomp. 

Click to expand...

One word, again, and again etc, it’s like a dripping tap!

It’s alright putting this on Stu, but surely if that one word hadn’t been posted he wouldn’t of bit.

Mods state we should report posts rather than get in to arguments etc, but it gets to the point were he’s warned, stays quiet for a bit and then does it again.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Check his posts!
		
Click to expand...


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 8, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Sounds like a few people on here today are on there masculine menstrual cycles having a little bitch at each other.. Sadly these "Meriods" seem never ending with current lockdown as people haven't got anything better to do.
		
Click to expand...

Yes ,like I said “it’s still morning”


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 8, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I don't need to, I have eyes and a memory. If he's so clearly on the wind-up why do people have to bite every single time? This time he only said one word and Stuart was like Pacman, chomp chomp chomp. 

Click to expand...

Now I know how everybody else feels when they succumb to LP's drivel 🤭


----------



## Wolf (Apr 8, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes ,like I said “it’s still morning”
		
Click to expand...

Wait till the afternoon and the kids get really bored 😂


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 8, 2020)

Looks like I was on ignore for 9 posts........drip, drip, drip, drip


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Looks like I was on ignore for 9 posts........drip, drip, drip, drip
		
Click to expand...

I was being sarcastic.
Just wanted to make a big song & dance about putting someone on ignore.

Know what I mean Paul 😳😂


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 8, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Wait till the afternoon and the kids get really bored 😂
		
Click to expand...

Going for a Jog before it’s banned.


----------



## Orikoru (Apr 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			One word, again, and again etc, it’s like a dripping tap!

It’s alright putting this on Stu, but surely if that one word hadn’t been posted he wouldn’t of bit.

Mods state we should report posts rather than get in to arguments etc, but it gets to the point were he’s warned, stays quiet for a bit and then does it again.
		
Click to expand...

I just see it as a mindset & context thing. I don't mind Pin-seeker because I know he's tongue-in-cheek and will be trying to wind people up, I find it quite funny. If people are going to take him seriously and kick off about it that's their prerogative. 

In situations like this I'm always reminded of Stephen Fry's words on 'being offended'.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 8, 2020)

Anyway shall we get back to football?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 8, 2020)

Now personal insults.......drip, drip, drip, drip


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 8, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I just see it as a mindset & context thing. I don't mind Pin-seeker because I know he's tongue-in-cheek and will be trying to wind people up, I find it quite funny. If people are going to take him seriously and kick off about it that's their prerogative.

In situations like this I'm always reminded of Stephen Fry's words on 'being offended'.

Click to expand...

Maybe it’s funny when you’re not the target.🤷‍♂️


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Now personal insults.......drip, drip, drip, drip
		
Click to expand...

Sorry if I’ve hurt your feelings Paul 😔


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 8, 2020)

11 post......drip, drip, drip, drip


----------



## Orikoru (Apr 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Maybe it’s funny when you’re not the target.🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

See, even words like 'target' make it seem worse than it really is. I don't know why certain people take everything so seriously. Nothing we say on here actually matters, nobody needs to have their feelings hurt. Just my view.


----------



## Leftitshort (Apr 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			11 post......drip, drip, drip, drip
		
Click to expand...

Just report him. As fragger, the mid, said on another post.....people have been banned!!!


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 8, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			See, even words like 'target' make it seem worse than it really is. I don't know why certain people take everything so seriously. Nothing we say on here actually matters, nobody needs to have their feelings hurt. Just my view.
		
Click to expand...

He can’t help but get involved.
Any opportunity to try get get a few brownie points off Stu.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 8, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			See, even words like 'target' make it seem worse than it really is. I don't know why certain people take everything so seriously. Nothing we say on here actually matters, nobody needs to have their feelings hurt. Just my view.
		
Click to expand...

He’s openly admitted he dislikes scousers, it’s been going on for over 3 years, trust me, it gets to a certain point when there is no humour in it.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 8, 2020)

Leftitshort said:



			Just report him. As fragger, the mid, said on another post.....people have been banned!!!
		
Click to expand...

I have. especially the personal insult one.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			He’s openly admitted he dislikes scousers, it’s been going on for over 3 years, trust me, it gets to a certain point when there is no humour in it.
		
Click to expand...

When?
Can you back this claim up Paul?


----------



## Leftitshort (Apr 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I have. especially the personal insult one.
		
Click to expand...

I thought swearing was banned. Why is the ‘kes’ avatar allowed?


----------



## Beezerk (Apr 8, 2020)

Leftitshort said:



			I thought swearing was banned. Why is the ‘kes’ avatar allowed?
		
Click to expand...

Swearing abound a few pages back


----------



## Orikoru (Apr 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			He’s openly admitted he dislikes scousers, it’s been going on for over 3 years, trust me, it gets to a certain point when there is no humour in it.
		
Click to expand...

So what? Nobody died. This is the football thread, people have been 'hating' one another in that context for a century.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 8, 2020)

Leftitshort said:



			I thought swearing was banned. Why is the ‘kes’ avatar allowed?
		
Click to expand...

If it offends you I’ll swap it buddy👍🏻


----------



## Leftitshort (Apr 8, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Swearing abound a few pages back 

Click to expand...

It would be a shame if the rules weren’t applied evenly. How does anyone know?


----------



## Leftitshort (Apr 8, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			If it offends you I’ll swap it buddy👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

No thanks. Good film though. I’m just trying to understand the rules


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 8, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			So what? Nobody died. This is the football thread, people have been 'hating' one another in that context for a century.
		
Click to expand...

Oh you’ve no idea, plenty of snidey comments about Hillsborough and Heysel over that period as well as victim shouts.
Some forget some of us had friends and family at those events.
He hasn’t stuck to games.


----------



## Beezerk (Apr 8, 2020)

Leftitshort said:



			It would be a shame if the rules weren’t applied evenly. How does anyone know?
		
Click to expand...

We need a live list of "bad boys" a bit like the coronavirus charts


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 8, 2020)

Drip, drip, drip, drip


----------



## Leftitshort (Apr 8, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			We need a live list of "bad boys" a bit like the coronavirus charts 

Click to expand...

What straight in at no1 ....pinseeker?
Who else would be on there? Who is this Liverpoolphil fella I read about before I joined?


----------



## Beezerk (Apr 8, 2020)

Leftitshort said:



			What straight in at no1 ....pinseeker?
Who else would be on there? Who is this Liverpoolphil fella I read about before I joined?
		
Click to expand...

No comment


----------



## Orikoru (Apr 8, 2020)

Leftitshort said:



			What straight in at no1 ....pinseeker?
Who else would be on there? *Who is this Liverpoolphil fella I read about before I joined?*

Click to expand...

I don't think he really upsets anyone, he just talks complete rubbish and is argumentative for the sake of it.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Oh you’ve no idea, plenty of snidey comments about Hillsborough and Heysel over that period as well as victim shouts.
Some forget some of us had friends and family at those events.
He hasn’t stuck to games.
		
Click to expand...

^^^^FALSE INFORMATION!!!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 8, 2020)

Ignore button is well and truly knackered today........drip, drip, drip, drip


----------



## Wolf (Apr 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Drip, drip, drip, drip
		
Click to expand...

Its all well and good saying about Pin-seeker Paul but these type of comments do what to diffuse the situation. They merely do the same and get responded to accordingly making the situation continues. You've stated you reported the behaviour why not leave it at that and move on to discussing the thread topic or something else 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 8, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Its all well and good saying about Pin-seeker Paul but these type of comments do what to diffuse the situation. They merely do the same and get responded to accordingly making the situation continues. You've stated you reported the behaviour why not leave it at that and move on to discussing the thread topic or something else 🤷🏻‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Because it proves my point as shown by you questioning it.

Has he got me on ignore?

I agree I’m adding nothing except proving he can’t help himself.


----------



## ferenezejohn (Apr 8, 2020)

I came on to this thread to see what was the latest football news, seems I'm in the wrong place 🤔


----------



## SteveW86 (Apr 8, 2020)

ferenezejohn said:



			I came on to this thread to see what was the latest football news, seems I'm in the wrong place 🤔
		
Click to expand...

I saw the amount of new pages and thought....Oooooh there must be something interesting going on in the world of football that I have missed. Turns out thats not the case. Lets move on shall we


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 8, 2020)

ferenezejohn said:



			I came on to this thread to see what was the latest football news, seems I'm in the wrong place 🤔
		
Click to expand...

A few Spurs players did a bit of running around in a park.


----------



## Captainron (Apr 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Nothing snide about my shit stirring.
		
Click to expand...

Or little about you (mushroom aside)


----------



## Captainron (Apr 8, 2020)

Leftitshort said:



			What straight in at no1 ....pinseeker?
Who else would be on there? Who is this Liverpoolphil fella I read about before I joined?
		
Click to expand...

He hits it like a wimp and loves hockey is what I have gleaned. Also know nothing about football unless its on twitter?


----------



## Wolf (Apr 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Because it proves my point as shown by you questioning it.

Has he got me on ignore?

I agree I’m adding nothing except proving he can’t help himself.

Click to expand...

Or perhaps it shows you can't help yourself. 

Continuing to post the replies proves nothing other than you're allowing it to continue and going down to same level. 

Surely its time to move on now and get on topic or at least near to it. We're all stuck in for the foreseeable and going round in these circles shows everything bad about the forum, social media and the tit for tat society we're currently residing in. 

Finally to get back on topic. Just seen the news about the Legend that is Jimmy Greaves has been admitted to hospital.


----------



## Fish (Apr 8, 2020)

In case it got missed by all the handbags, here’s what Chelsea have extended their goodwill to....

👍👏👏💙


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Apr 8, 2020)

Right you lot

3 infractions handed out resulting in another ban for one

Swearing is not allowed on here
Trolling is not allowed on here
Aggressive behavior is not allowed on here

Now im going back to my painting and you'd better be good boys from now on


----------



## DaveR (Apr 8, 2020)

Blimey this thread has really kicked off this morning  

3 types of posters.....those that want to talk football, those that want to talk football but get dragged into arguments........

And a blatant troll


----------



## davemc1 (Apr 8, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Right you lot

3 infractions handed out resulting in another ban for one

Swearing is not allowed on here
Trolling is not allowed on here
Aggressive behavior is not allowed on here

Now im going back to my painting and you'd better be good boys from now on

Click to expand...

Who, what, where, why, when?

😆


----------



## USER1999 (Apr 8, 2020)

Fish said:



			In case it got missed by all the handbags, here’s what Chelsea have extended their goodwill to....

👍👏👏💙

View attachment 29793

Click to expand...

Where do the cats come into it?


----------



## Captainron (Apr 8, 2020)

Let’s look on the bright side guys

Tottenham haven’t lost a game for a few weeks.....


----------



## Jensen (Apr 8, 2020)

Captainron said:



			Let’s look on the bright side guys

Tottenham haven’t lost a game for a few weeks.....
		
Click to expand...

👍 nor have we had to watch the drivel he serves up or the crap he spouts 👍


----------



## PieMan (Apr 8, 2020)

Captainron said:



			Let’s look on the bright side guys

Tottenham haven’t lost a game for a few weeks.....
		
Click to expand...

And Man U are still 5th................!!!


----------



## PieMan (Apr 8, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Where do the cats come into it?
		
Click to expand...

They're the starter..........


----------



## Fish (Apr 8, 2020)

Captainron said:



			Let’s look on the bright side guys

Tottenham haven’t lost a game for a few weeks.....
		
Click to expand...

**Breaking News:**

 It transpires Tottenham Hotspur’s Cup Polisher - Ernie from Stoke Newington has been on Furlough since 1991

😜


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 8, 2020)

Fish said:



			In case it got missed by all the handbags, here’s what Chelsea have extended their goodwill to....

👍👏👏💙

View attachment 29793

Click to expand...

I am still impressed  it’s good that clubs help the community.
They do a lot we don’t hear about.
Maybe the bashing and calls for players to take a pay cut might stop if it was more widely reported just what clubs do  for charity and things like this.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 8, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Where do the cats come into it?
		
Click to expand...

They are the Goalkeepers!


----------



## Fish (Apr 8, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I am still impressed  it’s good that clubs help the community.
They do a lot we don’t hear about.
Maybe the bashing and calls for players to take a pay cut might stop if it was more widely reported just what clubs do  for charity and things like this.
		
Click to expand...

Doesn’t suit the medias narrative most of the time


----------



## funkycoldmedina (Apr 8, 2020)

Fish said:



			Doesn’t suit the medias narrative most of the time
		
Click to expand...

Yep, not much chat of what high earners and others that squirrel their money away offshore should be doing at this time but then again they mix in the same circles as paper owners and are Party donors. Let's get the proles angry about footballers and clubs.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 8, 2020)

Fish said:



			**Breaking News:**

It transpires Tottenham Hotspur’s Cup Polisher - Ernie from Stoke Newington has been on Furlough since 1991

😜
		
Click to expand...

😂didn’t they win a carling cup in the early 2000’s


----------



## funkycoldmedina (Apr 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			😂didn’t they win a carling cup in the early 2000’s
		
Click to expand...

We did indeed, it's gone down as one of the world's great cup stories😜 we just don't like to brag🤣


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 8, 2020)

funkycoldmedina said:



			We did indeed, it's gone down as one of the world's great cup stories😜 we just don't like to brag🤣
		
Click to expand...

Fishys got his breaking news wrong 😂😂


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Apr 8, 2020)

funkycoldmedina said:



			Yep, not much chat of what high earners and others that squirrel their money away offshore should be doing at this time but then again they mix in the same circles as paper owners and are Party donors. Let's get the proles angry about footballers and clubs.
		
Click to expand...

As much as I don't normally like him, I thought Rooney had a good article the other day and didn't think he was that far off line either


----------



## Jensen (Apr 8, 2020)

Fish said:



			**Breaking News:**

It transpires Tottenham Hotspur’s Cup Polisher - Ernie from Stoke Newington has been on Furlough since 1991

😜
		
Click to expand...

Not quite, it's been since 2008 when we won the league cup. Who was it we beat....oh yea Chelsea - selective memory


----------



## Piece (Apr 8, 2020)

In real football news, I'm up to Div 5 in on-line FIFA20.


----------



## PieMan (Apr 8, 2020)

Piece said:



			In real football news, I'm up to Div 5 in on-line FIFA20.
		
Click to expand...

Do your mum and dad know you're posting on an adult golf forum???!!!


----------



## Orikoru (Apr 8, 2020)

PieMan said:



			Do your mum and dad know you're posting on an adult golf forum???!!! 

Click to expand...

Adult? You must not have read much of it lately.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Apr 8, 2020)

At last, a collective response.
Well done.
PL players help for NHS.


----------



## HowlingGale (Apr 10, 2020)

Just thinking about this season. Could they not adjust the timings somehow to play over this summer (assuming some things are allowed to go ahead) and incorporate a long winter break? They could then play through next summer and continue in that vein until the winter World Cup in Qatar.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 10, 2020)

HowlingGale said:



			Just thinking about this season. Could they not adjust the timings somehow to play over this summer (assuming some things are allowed to go ahead) and incorporate a long winter break? They could then play through next summer and continue in that vein until the winter World Cup in Qatar.
		
Click to expand...

Yes they could.
There are plenty of ways to do it ,just need some common sense .
But nothing can be done until this is all over and that’s anyone’s guess.


----------



## Beezerk (Apr 10, 2020)

I've heard some youth leagues have had their tables completed by working out average points per game, we're still waiting to find out if our Saturday league will do the same which means we'll win the title if they do.
I hope the pro leagues don't resort to this but it got me wondering how the finished league tables would look if they did.
And no, I can't be bothered to work it all out


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 10, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			I've heard some youth leagues have had their tables completed by working out average points per game, we're still waiting to find out if our Saturday league will do the same which means we'll win the title if they do.
I hope the pro leagues don't resort to this but it got me wondering how the finished league tables would look if they did.
And no, I can't be bothered to work it all out 

Click to expand...

Fine for amateur leagues but no more. There is only one way to resolve any pro league, play the games. It may have to be done in a slightly odd, rapid fashion. Who knows if fans will be in grounds, but the games have to be played.

I think they will be, the new season may start later than normal, but it is all manageable.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 10, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			I've heard some youth leagues have had their tables completed by working out average points per game, we're still waiting to find out if our Saturday league will do the same which means we'll win the title if they do.
I hope the pro leagues don't resort to this but it got me wondering how the finished league tables would look if they did.
And no, I can't be bothered to work it all out 

Click to expand...

Liverpool would win that’s all we need to know.
Not sure any relegated side would be happy .
But it is based on their form all season so seems fair.
Not ideal but it’s a solution.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fine for amateur leagues but no more. There is only one way to resolve any pro league, play the games. It may have to be done in a slightly odd, rapid fashion. Who knows if fans will be in grounds, but the games have to be played.

I think they will be, the new season may start later than normal, but it is all manageable.
		
Click to expand...

Theres 10 games left, play every 5 days and the league is done in 5weeks. I think the 1st couple of games will be behind closed doors, a shame for fans but more so the players but it’s the only right solution to sort it out.

Theres too much at stake financially not finishing the leagues.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 10, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fine for amateur leagues but no more. There is only one way to resolve any pro league, play the games. It may have to be done in a slightly odd, rapid fashion. Who knows if fans will be in grounds, but the games have to be played.

I think they will be, the new season may start later than normal, but it is all manageable.
		
Click to expand...

After this is all over I don’t think the fans will have the money for 2/3 games a week unless the prices are reduced
Lots of them will lose a large amount of their wage.
If not all.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 10, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Theres 10 games left, play every 5 days and the league is done in 5weeks. I think the 1st couple of games will be behind closed doors, a shame for fans but more so the players but it’s the only right solution to sort it out.

Theres too much at stake financially not finishing the leagues.
		
Click to expand...

What about the Cups?


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Liverpool would win that’s all we need to know.
Not sure any relegated side would be happy .
But it is based on their form all season so seems fair.
Not ideal but it’s a solution.
		
Click to expand...

We could bring back the pools panel 😉

No team should win any trophy without confirming it.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			What about the Cups?
		
Click to expand...

Cancel them 😁

No seriously they could slot the cup games in between or at then of the league season have like a WC style cup comp were they play every other day or 3 days.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 10, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Cancel them 😁
		
Click to expand...

Shocker!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 10, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			We could bring back the pools panel 😉

No team should win any trophy without confirming it.
		
Click to expand...

Yes totally agree .
But we’re only guessing time wise.
I am sure we will be celebrating PL win just not sure what year it will be


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2020)

I’m thinking play 2 live games everyday for the forseeable


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 10, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			After this is all over I don’t think the fans will have the money for 2/3 games a week unless the prices are reduced
Lots of them will lose a large amount of their wage.
If not all.
		
Click to expand...

In the PL most tickets are season tickets but I get your point. I think fulfilling the tv contract will bring in more money than gate receipts so that is the most important thing.

I feel hugely for the leagues below where gate receipts are critical. The pl needs to help those clubs out, we need the football pyramid.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes totally agree .
But we’re only guessing time wise.
I am sure we will be celebrating PL win just not sure what year it will be 

Click to expand...

There seems to be a rush to start next season. It’s crazy to even contemplate next season until this season has finished, whatever it takes.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			What about the Cups?
		
Click to expand...

A lot of PL teams don’t want to-play in them  anyway .
Just give them an opt out.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			In the PL most tickets are season tickets but I get your point. I think fulfilling the tv contract will bring in more money than gate receipts so that is the most important thing.

I feel hugely for the leagues below where gate receipts are critical. The pl needs to help those clubs out, we need the football pyramid.
		
Click to expand...

If pro football gets null and void today the PL face owing £720m to media companies because they haven’t fulfilled their contract etc.

For financial reasons alone football can not be null and void this season.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			A lot of PL teams don’t want to-play in them  anyway .
Just give them an opt out.
		
Click to expand...

No that's wrong. You cant just opt out. Play them, theres plenty of time to finish the season in its entirety.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 10, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			If pro football gets null and void today the PL face owing £720m to media companies because they haven’t fulfilled their contract etc.

For financial reasons alone football can not be null and void this season.
		
Click to expand...

That’s a lot of money.
And the second best reason for finishing the season.
You can all guess the first.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 10, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			No that's wrong. You cant just opt out. Play them, theres plenty of time to finish the season in its entirety.
		
Click to expand...

A choice is never wrong !


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 10, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			A lot of PL teams don’t want to-play in them  anyway .
Just give them an opt out.
		
Click to expand...

My answer was in reply to Stu and his too much at stake financial comment.

Weird how Lpool fans have a different mentality to the Cups than the League.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			My answer was in reply to Stu and his too much at stake financial comment.

Weird how Lpool fans have a different mentality to the Cups than the League.

Click to expand...

Not all of us!! The cups must be completed.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 10, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Not all of us!! The cups must be completed.
		
Click to expand...

During the League games though as per normal, otherwise you risk League and Cup games becoming a joke!


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			During the League games though as per normal, otherwise you risk League and Cup games becoming a joke!
		
Click to expand...

My thought was if we started say 15th may behind closed doors, then we'd finish the league campaign by 30th june, begin the remaining cup games from say 1st july and theyll be sorted by 21st july month off then look to start season 1st october. 

That way the league/ cups are only 6 weeks behind schedule..


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 10, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			My thought was if we started say 15th may behind closed doors, then we'd finish the league campaign by 30th june, begin the remaining cup games from say 1st july and theyll be sorted by 21st july month off then look to start season 1st october.

That way the league/ cups are only 6 weeks behind schedule..
		
Click to expand...

Then teams rest all their best for the Cup games or get booked in the league and banned from cup games etc.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Then teams rest all their best for the Cup games or get booked in the league and banned from cup games etc.
		
Click to expand...

That's entirely their right, just like it is to play a weakend side....

Giving the clubs the ability to play all the remaining games is imperative, how they manage it is upto the clubs themselves.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2020)

We know theres millions of pounds in  and around football but one thing this pandemic has shown is as quick as the money comes in, it goes out and theres actually little money in football clubs banks.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 10, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			That's entirely their right, just like it is to play a weakend side....

Giving the clubs the ability to play all the remaining games is imperative, how they manage it is upto the clubs themselves.
		
Click to expand...

But it might not be Stu, you’re looking at from an English PL point of view, Leagues around Europe may restart at different times and have different amounts of games left in the season.

You can’t schedule the CL or EL games until it’s fair to everyone.

As for playing weaker teams, doing it intentionally against teams whose survival or qualification for Europe is at stake is wrong.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			But it might not be Stu, you’re looking at from an English PL point of view, Leagues around Europe may restart at different times and have different amounts of games left in the season.

You can’t schedule the CL or EL games until it’s fair to everyone.

*As for playing weaker teams, doing it intentionally against teams whose survival or qualification for Europe is at stake is wrong*.
		
Click to expand...

I said a while back that not starting this season til october/nov would probably be better as it falls in line with 2022 WC.

Belgian league have already given Brugge the league.

CL and EL I think will be voided and that's only down to travelling as opposed to anything else. Unless it's all played behind closed doors.

I dont think it is. Its within the rules to use your squad. It happens most weeks in the league. I remember Neil Warnock blaming Rafa because he played a weakend side against Fulham days befor a Very important CL semi final.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 10, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I said a while back that not starting this season til october/nov would probably be better as it falls in line with 2022 WC.

Belgian league have already given Brugge the league.

CL and EL I think will be voided and that's only down to travelling as opposed to anything else. Unless it's all played behind closed doors.

I dont think it is. Its within the rules to use your squad. It happens most weeks in the league. I remember Neil Warnock blaming Rafa because he played a weakend side against Fulham days befor a Very important CL semi final.
		
Click to expand...

If anything I’d argue binning next season off until this year is concluded across Europe.

Next season could always be some sort of one off hybrid League/Cup format before getting back to normal in 2021/22.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			If anything I’d argue binning next season off until this year is concluded across Europe.

Next season could always be some sort of one off hybrid League/Cup format before getting back to normal in 2021/22.
		
Click to expand...

The truth is most clubs cant afford to bin off the league for a hybrid or any other scenario.

The PL couldn't afford it and all of the sponsors would want their dosh back. It cant happen.

Even if the players had say 2 weeks off then 2 weeks pre season, the season would only be 3 weeks behind and most european leagues start 2 weeks after us with less games and a longer winter break. Condense those down and I reckon theres only a weeks difference

Btw I'm just thinking about loud here so my maths might be out but I'm sure you get the jist


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 10, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			The truth is most clubs cant afford to bin off the league for a hybrid or any other scenario.

The PL couldn't afford it and all of the sponsors would want their dosh back. It cant happen.

Even if the players had say 2 weeks off then 2 weeks pre season, the season would only be 3 weeks behind and most european leagues start 2 weeks after us with less games and a longer winter break. Condense those down and I reckon theres only a weeks difference

Btw I'm just thinking about loud here so my maths might be out but I'm sure you get the jist
		
Click to expand...

I do mate, I just think this coronavirus is going to go on and have an impact we can’t even understand yet.
Can’t see any “normality” for a couple of years sadly.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I do mate, I just think this coronavirus is going to go on and have an impact we can’t even understand yet.
Can’t see any “normality” for a couple of years sadly.
		
Click to expand...

That's why we need to finish this season then if football is cancelled forever at least we know liverpool won the PL 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## fundy (Apr 10, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I said a while back that not starting this season til october/nov would probably be better as it falls in line with 2022 WC.

Belgian league have already given Brugge the league.

CL and EL I think will be voided and that's only down to travelling as opposed to anything else. Unless it's all played behind closed doors.

I dont think it is. Its within the rules to use your squad. It happens most weeks in the league. I remember Neil Warnock blaming Rafa because he played a weakend side against Fulham days befor a Very important CL semi final.
		
Click to expand...


only had 1 game to go in Belgium didnt they


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2020)

fundy said:



			only had 1 game to go in Belgium didnt they
		
Click to expand...

Yes I think so but it was already won.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			My answer was in reply to Stu and his too much at stake financial comment.

Weird how Lpool fans have a different mentality to the Cups than the League.

Click to expand...

Not really the fans .
More about Klopp attitude towards them.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 10, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not really the fans .
More about Klopp attitude towards them.
		
Click to expand...

Eh! Is the CL no longer an important Cup then?


----------



## Fish (Apr 10, 2020)

😜😂😂


----------



## ColchesterFC (Apr 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Eh! Is the CL no longer an important Cup then?

Click to expand...

It was earlier in the season but has become much less so after the Athletico matches.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Eh! Is the CL no longer an important Cup then?

Click to expand...

I think the name gives you a clue.
It’s a league with a cup at the end.
Look at the teams he put out in the domestic cups.
Until we got Chelsea it was the squad players and the kids.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 10, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think the name gives you a clue.
It’s a league with a cup at the end.
Look at the teams he put out in the domestic cups.
Until we got Chelsea it was the squad players and the kids.
		
Click to expand...

Ha Ha Ha, quality reply.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Ha Ha Ha, quality reply.

Click to expand...

Which part isn’t true ?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 10, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Which part isn’t true ?
		
Click to expand...

That you don’t class it as a Cup.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 10, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			That you don’t class it as a Cup.

Click to expand...

It’s a Trophy .
Call it what you like .
But since Klopp took over the domestic cups have been second string ,


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Apr 10, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I remember Neil Warnock blaming Rafa because he played a weakend side against Fulham days befor a Very important CL semi final.
		
Click to expand...

Bet we still got beat


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Bet we still got beat
		
Click to expand...

Won 1-0 actually.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Apr 10, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Won 1-0 actually.
		
Click to expand...

Get in. Come on you whites

Separately sad to see Kenny Dalglish has now contracted corona - https://www.skysports.com/football/...kenny-dalglish-tests-positive-for-coronavirus  and given how it affected Boris so badly hope he gets only a mild form and is fit and well again soon


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 10, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			It’s a Trophy .
Call it what you like .
But since Klopp took over the domestic cups have been second string ,
		
Click to expand...

Stu didn’t make a distinction and if you’d of beat Atletico it would be a totally different pov.


----------



## pauljames87 (Apr 10, 2020)

I believe our club have decided to watch what others do and judge the response before announcing their plans 

Very PR savvy for this one the old Dave's.

West Ham United can confirm that a series of measures - led by the Board, first-team players and the manager - have today been agreed to ensure the Club can continue to support our staff, fans and local community through this difficult time.
The COVID-19 pandemic has presented the entire nation with a challenge the vast majority of us have never experienced in our lifetime. It continues to impact all of our lives, both personally and professionally. Like many organisations across the globe, the Club has been looking at every option possible to achieve continuity and to ensure that we can protect and safeguard all of our staff and the future viability of our football club.
The Board of Directors have been working tirelessly behind the scenes exploring every possible avenue, with our main priority in these unchartered times being to keep those around us and their families safe. We can confirm that a number of measures, including the following, are now in place:
• The first team playing squad, led by captain Mark Noble, are supporting the effort by deferring a percentage of their salaries during this period of postponement
• Joint-Chairmen David Sullivan and David Gold and fellow shareholders have agreed to inject £30million cash to help ensure stability
• The Joint-Chairmen, who have not taken a salary or dividend throughout their 10 years at the Club, are deferring interest payments on shareholder loans
• Manager David Moyes, Vice-Chairman Karren Brady and Chief Financial Officer Andy Mollett taking a 30% reduction
The savings created by the measures above will support the entire infrastructure of the Club and enable us to retain jobs and continue to pay 100% of staff salaries. It will also help us to continue to support the most vulnerable in our community. Through our award-winning Foundation, and the Players’ Project we have delivered, West Ham United has pledged £28m and saved the NHS £1.4m in the 150-Club diabetes programme alone – and these vital life-saving programmes need to continue.
Vice-Chairman Karren Brady said: “I would like to say a big thank you to David Moyes and his backroom team, our captain Mark Noble and our fantastic squad of players for the commitment and determination they have shown to offer their help and support.
‘’I would also like to thank the shareholders whose support through this injection of equity once again demonstrates their commitment to the future of the Club.
“The Joint-Chairmen and I are truly proud of how they and everyone at the Club has stepped up to play their part in this situation – we are in it together to support one another, our community and our Club. That is the spirit of the West Ham United family.
“There is still a long and difficult road ahead but we remain committed to doing everything we can to support those most in need, and together we will come through it stronger.”
Captain Mark Noble said: “As players we have been in constant dialogue with the Club since the situation around COVID-19 emerged and I am proud that our entire squad have made clear their strong desire to play our part in helping to support others through this situation. 
“At West Ham United, we are one team and our priority reflects the Club’s aim to help ensure the staff get 100% of their salaries while we are unable to play our matches. We continue to do all we can, collectively and individually, throughout this period for the benefit of those around us, our colleagues, our supporters and our community. 
“On behalf of the players I send our best wishes to all of our supporters and their families, especially those who have been directly affected by the virus, and I look forward to the day that we can all be back together again.” 
The thoughts of everyone at West Ham United at this time are with all those affected by COVID-19, particularly the more vulnerable members of our community. Please continue to look out for yourselves and for each other.
Stay Home. Protect the NHS. Save Lives.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Apr 12, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes I think so but it was already won.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if thats correct.

I think the rump of the league games were finished but think they split into another format for the last part of the season, which they hadnt got to yet, like the way the Rugby league season does......I think.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2020)

Spurs reverse their Furlough decision and directors are taking the strain instead of the economy. Well done Spurs.


----------



## pauljames87 (Apr 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Spurs reverse their Furlough decision and directors are taking the strain instead of the economy. Well done Spurs.
		
Click to expand...

A few spurs supporting friends are not impressed,

"Levy shouldn’t be praised for making the right decision and using some commonsense. The fact that he wanted to do it in the first place and took this long to change his mind speaks volumes.."


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			A few spurs supporting friends are not impressed,

"Levy shouldn’t be praised for making the right decision and using some commonsense. The fact that he wanted to do it in the first place and took this long to change his mind speaks volumes.."
		
Click to expand...

I agree like Liverpool, but to actually change their mind should be applauded. 

It could’ve been quite easy for them to justify using it by saying “we’ve paid into the pot,were entitled to do it as it’s a decision to help the business protect jobs in future“.

Morally, it’s wrong. How many businesses decisions bare in mind morals? Not many I reckon.


----------



## Jensen (Apr 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Spurs reverse their Furlough decision and directors are taking the strain instead of the economy. Well done Spurs.
		
Click to expand...

Here's to hoping Levy makes another sensible decision, and shows The Poison One the door.


----------



## Billysboots (Apr 13, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Here's to hoping Levy makes another sensible decision, and shows The Poison One the door.
		
Click to expand...

Not a Mourinho fan?!


----------



## funkycoldmedina (Apr 13, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Not a Mourinho fan?!
		
Click to expand...

Who is?🤣🤣


----------



## pauljames87 (Apr 13, 2020)

funkycoldmedina said:



			Who is?🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

I heard a rumour that Jose hates the production team of this spurs documentary do shaved his head to muck up the continuity

If true I love him lol


----------



## Billysboots (Apr 13, 2020)

funkycoldmedina said:



			Who is?🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

I’m a lifelong Man United fan and member, and I recall driving home from the 2016 FA Cup final, when rumours of Van Gaal’s sacking started circulating. My lad, 13 at the time, was delighted, as was I, and said how excited he was at the prospect of Mourinho being the next United manager.

My response was to tell him if he thought the football was bad under Van Gaal (it was absolute turgid dross), then it would be even worse under Mourinho. How true that turned out to be.

For all his achievements, he still leaves turmoil and fractured dressing rooms in his wake, and has been well and truly left behind tactically. Worst manager United has had in my lifetime.


----------



## Jensen (Apr 13, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Not a Mourinho fan?!
		
Click to expand...

NO. 
He'll destroy the club, alienates/destroys players and produces DULL football


----------



## Billysboots (Apr 13, 2020)

Jensen said:



			NO.
He'll destroy the club, alienates/destroys players and produces DULL football
		
Click to expand...

Spot on. And he had the temerity to refer to Pogba as a virus in the dressing room?!


----------



## funkycoldmedina (Apr 13, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Spot on. And he had the temerity to refer to Pogba as a virus in the dressing room?!
		
Click to expand...

He wasn't wrong though was he. Actually the issue with him is probably more Raiola than anything


----------



## Billysboots (Apr 13, 2020)

funkycoldmedina said:



			He wasn't wrong though was he. Actually the issue with him is probably more Raiola than anything
		
Click to expand...

I’m never sure what the story is with Pogba, but I do agree there is a massive issue with Raiola. Ferguson never made any attempt to hide his contempt for the man, and I can understand why.

The long standing rumours I hear tend to revolve more around Lingard being the cause of dressing room unrest. Not sure how true they are.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			I’m never sure what the story is with Pogba, but I do agree there is a massive issue with Raiola. Ferguson never made any attempt to hide his contempt for the man, and I can understand why.

*The long standing rumours I hear tend to revolve more around Lingard being the cause of dressing room unrest. Not sure how true they are*.
		
Click to expand...

I'd guess its BS, how could an average squad player have that much influence?


----------



## Billysboots (Apr 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I'd guess its BS, how could an average squad player have that much influence?
		
Click to expand...

Because of his off field antics.


----------



## fundy (Apr 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I'd guess its BS, how could an average squad player have that much influence?
		
Click to expand...

hes not even that good is he? (and yes im horrified that even paper talk linked him to us!)


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			hes not even that good is he? (and yes im horrified that even paper talk linked him to us!)
		
Click to expand...

Massively overrated. Talented but hasnt really nailed down a position as his own. 
If he was foreign he'd have been shipped abroad long time ago.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Because of his off field antics.
		
Click to expand...

In that case its upto the manager to sort him out or ship him out.


----------



## Billysboots (Apr 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			In that case its upto the manager to sort him out or ship him out.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree. He’d be no loss - vastly, vastly overrated.


----------



## Slime (Apr 13, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Not a Mourinho fan?!
		
Click to expand...




funkycoldmedina said:



			Who is?🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Jose Mourinho, but I think he's on his own.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Apr 13, 2020)

Aren't Mourinho and Raiola friends/connected business wise?


----------



## Kellfire (Apr 14, 2020)

How anyone can call Lingard overrated escapes me - no one rates him.


----------



## Orikoru (Apr 14, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Not a Mourinho fan?!
		
Click to expand...

He hardly ever mentions it.


----------



## Jensen (Apr 14, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			He hardly ever mentions it.
		
Click to expand...

🙄


----------



## fundy (Apr 14, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			How anyone can call Lingard overrated escapes me - no one rates him.
		
Click to expand...

well whoever gave him 100k a week deal must have rated him to some degree?


----------



## Wolf (Apr 14, 2020)

fundy said:



			well whoever gave him 100k a week deal must have rated him to some degree?
		
Click to expand...

Wonder if it was thr same pleb that negotiated 300k a week for Ozil.


----------



## fundy (Apr 14, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Wonder if it was thr same pleb that negotiated 300k a week for Ozil.
		
Click to expand...

think my views on him are quite well known lol


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 14, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			I’m a lifelong Man United fan and member, and I recall driving home from the 2016 FA Cup final, when rumours of Van Gaal’s sacking started circulating. My lad, 13 at the time, was delighted, as was I, and said how excited he was at the prospect of Mourinho being the next United manager.

My response was to tell him if he thought the football was bad under Van Gaal (it was absolute turgid dross), then it would be even worse under Mourinho. How true that turned out to be.

For all his achievements, he still leaves turmoil and fractured dressing rooms in his wake, and has been well and truly left behind tactically. Worst manager United has had in my lifetime.
		
Click to expand...

So surely the answer to this and Spurs is that your owners really don’t care what you the supporter thinks.

You knew what you were getting when he was appointed as did Jensen when Spurs appointed him.

So the question has to be asked why was he appointed and the answer has to be, it’s because he gets success, all the faults you mentioned didn’t just appear overnight and the owners are content to take the risk, he did bring trophies to Utd in spite of what you had to endure and Levy is probably hoping for the same.


----------



## Billysboots (Apr 14, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So surely the answer to this and Spurs is that your owners really don’t care what you the supporter thinks.

You knew what you were getting when he was appointed as did Jensen when Spurs appointed him.

So the question has to be asked why was he appointed and the answer has to be, it’s because he gets success, all the faults you mentioned didn’t just appear overnight and the owners are content to take the risk, he did bring trophies to Utd in spite of what you had to endure and Levy is probably hoping for the same.
		
Click to expand...

He was appointed at United because Ed Woodward appears to have little clue about football matters. Every United fan who goes regularly to games will tell you the transfer policy since Ferguson left has been utterly chaotic, and that was replicated in Mourinho’s appointment.

There are so many examples, but the stand out for me was the purchase of Di Maria. A huge signing, but utterly out of keeping with the Van Gaal style of management.

Mourinho at United was a shocking fit from day one, and whilst most were happy to give him time, they were still perplexed by a managerial appointment which was totally out of kilter with the sort of football United fans want. I speak for many when I say I would rather see us play expansive, entertaining football and lose 1-0, than see us take a 1-0 lead and then shut up shop for 85 minutes.

Mourinho is tactically out of touch and a simply dreadful man manager, happy to criticise his players in public. It’s all about him. It always has been.

I’ll be surprised if he is still at Spurs by Christmas.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 14, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			He was appointed at United because Ed Woodward appears to have little clue about football matters. Every United fan who goes regularly to games will tell you the transfer policy since Ferguson left has been utterly chaotic, and that was replicated in Mourinho’s appointment.

There are so many examples, but the stand out for me was the purchase of Di Maria. A huge signing, but utterly out of keeping with the Van Gaal style of management.

Mourinho at United was a shocking fit from day one, and whilst most were happy to give him time, they were still perplexed by a managerial appointment which was totally out of kilter with the sort of football United fans want. I speak for many when I say I would rather see us play expansive, entertaining football and lose 1-0, than see us take a 1-0 lead and then shut up shop for 85 minutes.

Mourinho is tactically out of touch and a simply dreadful man manager, happy to criticise his players in public. It’s all about him. It always has been.

I’ll be surprised if he is still at Spurs by Christmas.
		
Click to expand...

I’m not disagreeing with any of that, but he still brought trophies and improved the income in the years he was at Utd.
I believe it’s that that owners look to to bring him in for.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Apr 14, 2020)

Been here before but I hope this goes through and Fat Mike can do one from football https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52284645


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 15, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Been here before but I hope this goes through and Fat Mike can do one from football https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52284645

Click to expand...

It must be Season Ticket renewal time, Newcastle have found a buyer 🙄


----------



## Cherry13 (Apr 15, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It must be Season Ticket renewal time, Newcastle have found a buyer 🙄
		
Click to expand...

I’m the biggest sceptic of them all when it comes to Mike Ashley, but there seems to be a bit more about this one than previously. Widely reported that it’s all wrapped up.


----------



## Beezerk (Apr 15, 2020)

Cherry13 said:



			I’m the biggest sceptic of them all when it comes to Mike Ashley, but there seems to be a bit more about this one than previously. Widely reported that it’s all wrapped up.
		
Click to expand...

Most of my Toon loving mates are genuinely excited about the latest reports.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 15, 2020)

Cherry13 said:



			I’m the biggest sceptic of them all when it comes to Mike Ashley, but there seems to be a bit more about this one than previously. Widely reported that it’s all wrapped up.
		
Click to expand...

Good luck, having seen what happened to my club at 1st hand by Hicks and Gillette in 2006 I'd be very sceptical of any new owner.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 15, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Most of my Toon loving mates are genuinely excited about the latest reports.
		
Click to expand...

Have they got their Mbappe shirts printed up yet? 😂😂


----------



## Beezerk (Apr 15, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Have they got their Mbappe shirts printed up yet? 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Better than that mate 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Imurg (Apr 16, 2020)

Worth a read on why some experts think it could be a while before sport returns.
Its USA based but the principles are the same.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1250691203722629121


----------



## Fish (Apr 16, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Worth a read on why some experts think it could be a while before sport returns.
Its USA based but the principles are the same.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1250691203722629121

Click to expand...

Well 9 PL clubs are apparently ’demanding’ that the PL is completed fully by June 20th!

We’re still in a lockdown with constraints, they couldn’t even play behind closed doors in the current situation.


----------



## Imurg (Apr 16, 2020)

Fish said:



			Well 9 PL clubs are apparently ’demanding’ that the PL is completed fully by June 20th!

We’re still in a lockdown with constraints, they couldn’t even play behind closed doors in the current situation.
		
Click to expand...

Plus the costs and logistics of isolating teams would be immense.


----------



## funkycoldmedina (Apr 16, 2020)

An issue that doesn't often get brought up is how are they going to stop fans gathering to watch games. If and when Liverpool do win the title I don't see how they'll guarantee there won't be large impromptu gatherings and it's been shown that these are the rocket fuel to kick the virus off again


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 16, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Better than that mate 🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

One post my son sent me, from an nufc site:

Man City fans, would you prefer it to be called,

Oil Classico or
The Abu Derby 😂

There was then an expletive about City being poor in comparison but i decided to drop that 😁


----------



## Cherry13 (Apr 16, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			One post my son sent me, from an nufc site:

Man City fans, would you prefer it to be called,

Oil Classico or
The Abu Derby 😂

There was then an expletive about City being poor in comparison but i decided to drop that 😁
		
Click to expand...

It’s obviously all in jest, but my favourite “rumour” is Messi as player manager... I just love the fact someone had the creativity to create that. 
Also, Muhamed Bin Salman is 150-1 with the bookies to appoint himself as manager. 😂


----------



## Fish (Apr 17, 2020)

Tottenham have offered to reserve 1500 seats each home game next season for NHS workers ........

A spokesman for the NHS said have these people not suffered enough.

😜💙


----------



## Jensen (Apr 17, 2020)

Fish said:



			Tottenham have offered to reserve 1500 seats each home game next season for NHS workers ........

A spokesman for the NHS said have these people not suffered enough.

😜💙
		
Click to expand...

No doubt those same workers attended the 2008 Wembley League Cup Final 😜


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 17, 2020)

Fish said:



			Well 9 PL clubs are apparently ’demanding’ that the PL is completed fully by June 20th!

We’re still in a lockdown with constraints, they couldn’t even play behind closed doors in the current situation.
		
Click to expand...

it’s doable providing lockdown gets lifted early may but doubtful.


----------



## Fish (Apr 18, 2020)

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...osed-doors-tv-stream-online-a9470056.html?amp


----------



## Kellfire (Apr 18, 2020)

You’d hope Newcastle fans would boycott the club if this takeover goes through.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 18, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			You’d hope Newcastle fans would boycott the club if this takeover goes through.
		
Click to expand...

Go on then I’ll ask you why?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 18, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Go on then I’ll ask you why?
		
Click to expand...

You cracked early 😂


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 18, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You cracked early 😂
		
Click to expand...

I know,he obviously wanted someone to ask why🤷‍♂️
I’m guessing the potential new owners  aren’t saints?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 18, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			I know,he obviously wanted someone to ask why🤷‍♂️
I’m guessing the potential new owners  aren’t saints?
		
Click to expand...

Saudi's so the usual human rights questions get raised by those who feel the need. Luckily all the other owners of clubs are squeaky clean, all the money used in football came from ethical, non polluting sources 🙄.

In answer to the original question, they wont give two hoots. In fact, quite the opposite. They are beyond themselves that Ashley is on his way out, potentially.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Apr 21, 2020)

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...league-18126143.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Suspect it’s going to be a very busy kate June/july to get it all done


----------



## Slime (Apr 21, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...league-18126143.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Suspect it’s going to be a very busy kate June/july to get it all done
		
Click to expand...

It's a small price to pay for a correct and fair outcome.


----------



## pauljames87 (Apr 21, 2020)

As long as before it's ready to go ahead all the teams are given a 2 week or so window to get fully match fit

The transfer window world wide is closed and no player is allowed to leave a club until they have finished the season 

No loanee can return to parent club 

Also the games shall be on TV so the whole country can enjoy during these times.


----------



## fundy (Apr 21, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			As long as before it's ready to go ahead all the teams are given a 2 week or so window to get fully match fit

The transfer window world wide is closed and no player is allowed to leave a club until they have finished the season

No loanee can return to parent club

Also the games shall be on TV so the whole country can enjoy during these times.
		
Click to expand...


how do you intend to force a player to stay at a club once his contract has expired?


----------



## pauljames87 (Apr 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			how do you intend to force a player to stay at a club once his contract has expired?
		
Click to expand...

Would need world wide agreement 

All clubs not allowed to sign anyone until all seasons complete 

Then player of course your welcome to go but you can't sign for anyone or be paid


----------



## fundy (Apr 21, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Would need world wide agreement

All clubs not allowed to sign anyone until all seasons complete

Then player of course your welcome to go but you can't sign for anyone or be paid
		
Click to expand...


nice theory, sadly the lawyers and agents would have an utter field day


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Apr 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			how do you intend to force a player to stay at a club once his contract has expired?
		
Click to expand...

Think its going to end up boiling down to the player. Those that are and have been looking to get away won't have any loyalty and could conceivably argue they are now out of contract and refuse to play. Others may still want to play and help their team out. Surely it can't cut both ways so feel UEFA will need to issue some very clear instructions (that will be interesting itself)


----------



## pauljames87 (Apr 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			nice theory, sadly the lawyers and agents would have an utter field day
		
Click to expand...

Fifa and uefa need to stand strong and enforce it. If they don't let players register and they risk not being paid if they choose to leave their current clubs after contracts expire


----------



## fundy (Apr 21, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Fifa and uefa need to stand strong and enforce it. If they don't let players register and they risk not being paid if they choose to leave their current clubs after contracts expire
		
Click to expand...

they can try and enforce it all they like, wont last a minute in a court of law, once one challenges it, which they will, the rest will follow

the season will get played out it seems, but you wont get all of your above criteria


----------



## ColchesterFC (Apr 21, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Fifa and uefa need to stand strong and enforce it. If they don't let players register and they risk not being paid if they choose to leave their current clubs after contracts expire
		
Click to expand...

But what about those players being let go by their clubs? If a player's contract is expiring and the club aren't going to offer them a new one, how could that player be made to stay? And what if he had a contract agreed with another club but got a career ending injury during the extension? There are all sorts of legal and insurance problems with that situation.


----------



## pauljames87 (Apr 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			they can try and enforce it all they like, wont last a minute in a court of law, once one challenges it, which they will, the rest will follow

the season will get played out it seems, but you wont get all of your above criteria
		
Click to expand...

For us it would be a slight benefit 

We have 3 expiring 

Zabeletta .. who is a class act he may or may not stay on given the chance. Seems the type to do the right thing 

Sanchez .. nobody rates him in the fan base. Club want him gone so bye 

Soucez (sp) only on loan however we have option to buy so I'd suspect we would do that as you can do that mid season anyways


----------



## pauljames87 (Apr 21, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			But what about those players being let go by their clubs? If a player's contract is expiring and the club aren't going to offer them a new one, how could that player be made to stay? And what if he had a contract agreed with another club but got a career ending injury during the extension? There are all sorts of legal and insurance problems with that situation.
		
Click to expand...

If you scroll back a month ago I said the same thing as this. There must be a way around it behind scenes being talked about otherwise it would be incredibly unfair


----------



## Fish (Apr 21, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Fifa and uefa need to stand strong and enforce it. If they don't let players register and they risk not being paid if they choose to leave their current clubs after contracts expire
		
Click to expand...

Impossible to enforce, they have contracts, which are legally binding, and which I’d expect are all date based, unless there is any manner of caveat that states they have to complete a playing season, irrespective of it surpassing the contractual date, then when the date comes to fruition, and especially if they’re not happy, they’ll walk.


----------



## pauljames87 (Apr 21, 2020)

Fish said:



			Impossible to enforce, they have contracts, which are legally binding, and which I’d expect are all date based, unless there is any manner of caveat that states they have to complete a playing season, irrespective of it surpassing the contractual date, then when the date comes to fruition, and especially if they’re not happy, they’ll walk.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fi...nes-to-address-legal-consequences-of-covid-19

Looks like FIFA have looked into it


----------



## fundy (Apr 21, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fi...nes-to-address-legal-consequences-of-covid-19

Looks like FIFA have looked into it
		
Click to expand...

First sentence says it all!

Following the unprecedented disruption caused by COVID-19 at all levels of football, FIFA has worked on a series of *recommendations and guidelines* to address some of the key practical issues arising from the pandemic, especially with regard to player contracts and the transfer system generally.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 21, 2020)

Worst case, players leave but they can not play for their new team until the conclusion of the current season. It means some clubs will lose players come June 1st but they will not be allowed to play again and benefit other teams. That is within the power of UEFA. Best of a bad job if players wont bend to the situation.


----------



## fundy (Apr 21, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Worst case, players leave but they can not play for their new team until the conclusion of the current season. It means some clubs will lose players come June 1st but they will not be allowed to play again and benefit other teams. That is within the power of UEFA. Best of a bad job if players wont bend to the situation.
		
Click to expand...


how is that within the power of UEFA, theyll be in court on restraint of trade before Ronaldo can lace his boots up!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			how is that within the power of UEFA, theyll be in court on restraint of trade before Ronaldo can lace his boots up!
		
Click to expand...

Registration and ability to play is different, I think, to signing a player. You register with your league, leagues follow UEFA rules. Anyway, don't you have to register your squad at some point, there is a cut off. Until the season ends I don't see how a league would allow a newly bought player to be added to the playing squad. Those players would have to sit out the remainder of the season. That isn't restraint of trade, it's following the rules (probably)


----------



## fundy (Apr 21, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Registration and ability to play is different, I think, to signing a player. You register with your league, leagues follow UEFA rules. Anyway, don't you have to register your squad at some point, there is a cut off. Until the season ends I don't see how a league would allow a newly bought player to be added to the playing squad. Those players would have to sit out the remainder of the season.
		
Click to expand...


And as soon as you do that one of the players will instruct his lawyer to act, restraint of trade will take a competent one about 30 seconds and UEFA and the club will be in the can for compensation at which point the floodgates open

You only have to read the FIFA directive to know what comes from the governing bodies will be guidance not rules as they wont be able to enforce rules in this day and age where the lawyers will have them over a barrel and they wont be rushing to give them a chance to prove it


----------



## ColchesterFC (Apr 21, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Registration and ability to play is different, I think, to signing a player. You register with your league, leagues follow UEFA rules. Anyway, don't you have to register your squad at some point, there is a cut off. Until the season ends I don't see how a league would allow a newly bought player to be added to the playing squad. Those players would have to sit out the remainder of the season. That isn't restraint of trade, it's following the rules (probably)
		
Click to expand...

Not sure how it would affect those who are out of contract at the end of the season but have signed pre-contracts with their new club. That contract must have a start date so that could cause some legal issues.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 21, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Not sure how it would affect those who are out of contract at the end of the season but have signed pre-contracts with their new club. That contract must have a start date so that could cause some legal issues.
		
Click to expand...

They would still join that new club, they just could not play for them until the completion of the current season. The leagues would not accept them as being part of their new clubs squad until the season ended.


----------



## Imurg (Apr 21, 2020)

Professional sport banned in the Netherlands until September.........
Will other European countries follow suit..?


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 21, 2020)

The contract issue is a very straightforward one. Either stay and play until the  Season has finished or leave but your registration is withheld until the season has finished.

Common sense and flexibility on both sides is needed.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 21, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Professional sport banned in the Netherlands until September.........
Will other European countries follow suit..?
		
Click to expand...

Wow.

This could open the gates to other countries doing the same.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Apr 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Wow.

This could open the gates to other countries doing the same.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....may-season-restart_sto7731258/story-amp.shtml

Yet Germany looking to start up again Mid May 

Which country is reacting the right way ? 

Can’t see the UK banning all professional sport for that long


----------



## Liverbirdie (Apr 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			And as soon as you do that one of the players will instruct his lawyer to act, restraint of trade will take a competent one about 30 seconds and UEFA and the club will be in the can for compensation at which point the floodgates open

You only have to read the FIFA directive to know what comes from the governing bodies will be guidance not rules as they wont be able to enforce rules in this day and age where the lawyers will have them over a barrel and they wont be rushing to give them a chance to prove it
		
Click to expand...

As LT says you bring in a temporary rule that you cant register and play for new clubs until a certain date / criteria.

They would still be paid by the new club, just not playing yet, similar to when a player is "cup-tied".


----------



## fundy (Apr 21, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			As LT says you bring in a temporary rule that you cant register and play for new clubs until a certain date / criteria.

They would still be paid by the new club, just not playing yet, similar to when a player is "cup-tied".
		
Click to expand...


you can bring the rule in, how long it lasts in a court of law when challenged a whole different ball game and plenty of the big Agents already doing plenty of positioning


----------



## fundy (Apr 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			The contract issue is a very straightforward one. Either stay and play until the  Season has finished or leave but your registration is withheld until the season has finished.

Common sense and flexibility on both sides is needed.
		
Click to expand...


since when have agents/lawyers in football decided common sense is the right approach?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Apr 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			you can bring the rule in, how long it lasts in a court of law when challenged a whole different ball game and plenty of the big Agents already doing plenty of positioning
		
Click to expand...

How many agents have challenged the "cup-tied" rule?


----------



## fundy (Apr 21, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			How many agents have challenged the "cup-tied" rule?
		
Click to expand...


long standing rule, set out in advance of contracts drawn up, not a new rule introduced post contracts as what youre proposing would be, very different scenarios imo


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			long standing rule, set out in advance of contracts drawn up, not a new rule introduced post contracts as what youre proposing would be, very different scenarios imo
		
Click to expand...

Also the transfer window being January rather than a  deadline in March,  as used to be the case, makes it less of an issue.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			since when have agents/lawyers in football decided common sense is the right approach?
		
Click to expand...

You’ve a point.

What I would say is if there was any court proceedings, I’m pretty sure the courts would take into account the pandemic and would apply the appropriate common sense.


----------



## fundy (Apr 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			You’ve a point.

What I would say is if there was any court proceedings, I’m pretty sure the courts would take into account the pandemic and would apply the appropriate common sense.
		
Click to expand...

Id love you to be right, sadly courts will never ever apply common sense, they will apply the letter of the law, if not they open themselves up to all sorts! The lawyers know it, the agents know it, the clubs know it, Uefa/Fifa know it


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			Id love you to be right, sadly courts will never ever apply common sense, they will apply the letter of the law, if not they open themselves up to all sorts! The lawyers know it, the agents know it, the clubs know it, Uefa/Fifa know it
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, I’ve just had a moment of madness......off to give my heed a wobble😂


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			Id love you to be right, sadly courts will never ever apply common sense, they will apply the letter of the law, if not they open themselves up to all sorts! The lawyers know it, the agents know it, the clubs know it, Uefa/Fifa know it
		
Click to expand...

Agree no such thing as common sense in the law.
Courts work in black and white. 
The common sense will have to come from everyone in football .
Should give us something to debate in future????


----------



## fundy (Apr 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Sorry, I’ve just had a moment of madness......off to give my heed a wobble😂
		
Click to expand...


please film it for the rest of us to watch, would provide soooo much comic relief to a forum that needs some!!


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 21, 2020)

Ok so we null and void it for the sake of 71 players whose contracts are up, what then? Who foots the bill to refund the sponsorship money and lost revenues?


----------



## fundy (Apr 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Ok so we null and void it for the sake of 71 players whose contracts are up, what then? Who foots the bill to refund the sponsorship money and lost revenues?
		
Click to expand...


why do we have to go to that extreme? just because every player isnt at the same club doesnt mean it cant play out, a few players may have left their clubs and a few others may have joined (depending on how quickly we restart) but it can still be finished

Arsenal for eg, Ceballos is going to back to Madrid at the end of June, so be it we finish the season without him. If we sign Upamecano and Partey and theyre available, so be it (yeah I know, I know lol)


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 21, 2020)

You can bet your last dollar that any new contracts will have a pandemic clause in from now on.
As in any contract argument someone will win ,someone will lose.
Common sense goes out the window when big money is involved.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			why do we have to go to that extreme? just because every player isnt at the same club doesnt mean it cant play out, a few players may have left their clubs and a few others may have joined (depending on how quickly we restart) but it can still be finished

Arsenal for eg, Ceballos is going to back to Madrid at the end of June, so be it we finish the season without him. If we sign Upamecano and Partey and theyre available, so be it (yeah I know, I know lol)
		
Click to expand...

Some clubs will be losing influential players, those in relegation positions could end up being weaker, others stronger etc It’s unfair.

Id like to think most players whose in this position would stay and help their current manager/team. Only maybe 1or 2 I would have Thought would jump ship.


----------



## fundy (Apr 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Some clubs will be losing influential players, those in relegation positions could end up being weaker, others stronger etc It’s unfair.

Id like to think most players whose in this position would stay and help their current manager/team. Only maybe 1or 2 I would have Thought would jump ship.
		
Click to expand...


Not sure its going to be in the players hands all the time though is it. Lets use Ceballos for eg, he may decide hes happy to stay at Arsenal until the season ends but Madrid may refuse that. If Arsenal arent interested in signing him why should Madrid risk him being injured and adversely affecting their "asset" and his value.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			Not sure its going to be in the players hands all the time though is it. Lets use Ceballos for eg, he may decide hes happy to stay at Arsenal until the season ends but Madrid may refuse that. If Arsenal arent interested in signing him why should Madrid risk him being injured and adversely affecting their "asset" and his value.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe So but all the clubs are pretty much in the same boat.

These players are all insured to a high value, I’m not buying into the asset and value.


----------



## fundy (Apr 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Maybe So but all the clubs are pretty much in the same boat.

These players are all insured to a high value, I’m not buying into the asset and value.
		
Click to expand...

Not about you buying in to it though is it, its about clubs, players and especially agents manipulating it to their benefit (and using the lawyers to enforce contracts if it suits them). Pretty sure will affect different clubs in pretty different ways too (depending on how many close to end of contract, how many out on loan, how many in on loan, whether anything left to play for etc etc)

Lets be honest, if Ceballos goes back to Madrid we still finish mid table, little impact on us. Lets say compare that to Grealish goes to Man Utd on July 1st, Man U then finish 4th and Villa get relegated. Very different situ for a small group of clubs potentially


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			Not about you buying in to it though is it, its about clubs, players and especially agents manipulating it to their benefit (and using the lawyers to enforce contracts if it suits them). Pretty sure will affect different clubs in pretty different ways too (depending on how many close to end of contract, how many out on loan, how many in on loan, whether anything left to play for etc etc)

*Lets be honest, if Ceballos goes back to Madrid we still finish mid table, little impact on us. Lets say compare that to Grealish goes to Man Utd on July 1st, Man U then finish 4th and Villa get relegated. Very different situ for a small group of clubs potentially*

Click to expand...

which is why no players should be allowed to join a club. I think FIFA have already hinted at witholding registrations.

Anyway most important thing is getting this season finished and collecting our winnings😀


----------



## fundy (Apr 21, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			which is why no players should be allowed to join a club. I think FIFA have already hinted at witholding registrations.

Anyway most important thing is getting this season finished and collecting our winnings😀
		
Click to expand...


they can hint all they like, they dont have the "legal" clout to force it through. there will be winners and losers, there always is. at least its only football


----------



## Liverbirdie (Apr 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			long standing rule, set out in advance of contracts drawn up, not a new rule introduced post contracts as what youre proposing would be, very different scenarios imo
		
Click to expand...

A rule set out in extraordinary circumstances.

I think a player who may miss out on 3-4 win bonuses wouldnt like all the adverse reaction that would come, as well as a possibly long drawn out legal process. Most if not all would just tell their agents to "leave it". Look at Liverpool and Spurs on the furloughing.


----------



## Orikoru (Apr 22, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			One post my son sent me, from an nufc site:

Man City fans, would you prefer it to be called,

Oil Classico or
The Abu Derby 😂

There was then an expletive about City being poor in comparison but i decided to drop that 😁
		
Click to expand...

Abu Derby is so much the clear winner out of those two. Love it.


----------



## fundy (Apr 22, 2020)

uh oh, the asterix might be getting bigger 

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...btfACZbtiGtbbEvh9knWRFsk9Ye-J9xOhiQ8dbH0YXUpE


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Apr 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			uh oh, the asterix might be getting bigger 

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...btfACZbtiGtbbEvh9knWRFsk9Ye-J9xOhiQ8dbH0YXUpE

Click to expand...

A few things may me wonder from that 

They appear to have spoken to one club who happy to see the league finished now - I wonder if that club are in danger of going down ? 

All the clubs are going to look after themselves- clubs on the edge of CL will want to finish it , same clubs looking to avoid relegation.

I think whilst player contracts are an issue - next season should not start until this season has finished , even if it means waiting until August or September - then having a couple weeks


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 22, 2020)

Just Scrap the season.
Start afresh when is safe to do so properly.
More important things than football at the minute 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Orikoru (Apr 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A few things may me wonder from that

They appear to have spoken to one club who happy to see the league finished now - I wonder if that club are in danger of going down ?

All the clubs are going to look after themselves- clubs on the edge of CL will want to finish it , same clubs looking to avoid relegation.

I think whilst player contracts are an issue - next season should not start until this season has finished , even if it means waiting until August or September - then having a couple weeks
		
Click to expand...

Agree, no point asking clubs to give their view as each will vote in their own interests. Clubs doing well will say finish the games or finish it as it is, clubs doing badly will say scrap it. Finish the season in July (with some kind of legislation to extend expiring contracts by two months), and start the new one in September.


----------



## Rlburnside (Apr 23, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Just Scrap the season.
Start afresh when is safe to do so properly.
More important things than football at the minute 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Yea got to agree, it’s looking more likely that there won’t be any big gatherings this year, so no football I hope they don’t try and play with no crowds.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 23, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			Yea got to agree, it’s looking more likely that there won’t be any big gatherings this year, so no football I hope they don’t try and play with no crowds.
		
Click to expand...

Agree can’t see it happening ,
How can a PL defender mark his man if he is not allowed within 2 mts of him.?
social distancing is here for a long time according to the briefing yesterday.
How does the phisio deal with injuries on the pitch?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 23, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Agree can’t see it happening ,
How can a PL defender mark his man if he is not allowed within 2 mts of him.?
social distancing is here for a long time according to the briefing yesterday.
How does the phisio deal with injuries on the pitch?
		
Click to expand...

And yet the Bundesliga teams are back training, games due to start again in May.

We have to be careful not to get too insular and down about what is happening right now. Other countries are looking at relaxing restrictions, Sweden has largely carried on as normal throughout. We have seen pictures on here in the last two days of golfers in Australia and Sweden happily playing. There are ways around this, other countries will get there ahead of us because their timeline is different. We see what they do, how things develop in those countries. We copy the good, learn from what happens.


----------



## garyinderry (Apr 23, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Agree can’t see it happening ,
How can a PL defender mark his man if he is not allowed within 2 mts of him.?
		
Click to expand...

Ask the arsenal defence how they do it.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 23, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			And yet the Bundesliga teams are back training, games due to start again in May.

We have to be careful not to get too insular and down about what is happening right now. Other countries are looking at relaxing restrictions, Sweden has largely carried on as normal throughout. We have seen pictures on here in the last two days of golfers in Australia and Sweden happily playing. There are ways around this, other countries will get there ahead of us because their timeline is different. We see what they do, how things develop in those countries. We copy the good, learn from what happens.
		
Click to expand...

That dosnt mean they are right.

Our government scientist said in the briefing ,that social distancing may last until the end of the year!

It’s all ifs and buts at the moment.
But right now I can’t see it happening under the lockdown we have.
Hope I am wrong but can’t see it.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Apr 23, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			That dosnt mean they are right.

*Our government scientist said in the briefing ,that social distancing may last until the end of the year!*

It’s all ifs and buts at the moment.
But right now I can’t see it happening under the lockdown we have.
Hope I am wrong but can’t see it.
		
Click to expand...

He said “some level of social distancing” - didn’t mean it’s going to be the same until the end of the year - it could be restrictions on sizes of crowds etc etc - Germany will start soon behind close doors , I suspect we will start some time in June behind closed doors


----------



## Bazzatron (Apr 23, 2020)

"Sporting merit." 

So that's how they'll make sure Wolves and Sheff Utd miss out on Europe next year, got it.


----------



## Slime (Apr 23, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Just Scrap the season.
Start afresh when is safe to do so properly.
More important things than football at the minute 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

No, I think that'd be just wrong.
Deffo don't start again until it's safe, but surely start by finishing off this season.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 23, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			That dosnt mean they are right.
		
Click to expand...

That is correct. We don't really know right now, it is all a bit suck it and see, except don't suck anything right now, just in case . The Germans tend to be quite good at getting things right though, they are quite pragmatic, and so following their methods in most things is generally not a bad thing to do. Anyway, they get to work out the small details of things and our leagues can see if we are able to follow when the time is right. We are a good few weeks behind them so nothing is going to happen here for a while yet.


----------



## Slime (Apr 23, 2020)

Oh, and for those of us looking for some good news, there's this;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52398988


----------



## Rlburnside (Apr 23, 2020)

Going by what Nicola Sturgeon outlined today whatever changes are going to be made will be gradual, and some form of social distances may well last until the end of the year so I can’t see any football being played this year.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2020)

Football will be played behind closed doors, there's too much money involved for it to not be completed.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 23, 2020)

Slime said:



			No, I think that'd be just wrong.
Deffo don't start again until it's safe, but surely start by finishing off this season.
		
Click to expand...

Just my opinion mate 👍🏻


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Football will be played behind closed doors, there's too much money involved for it to not be completed.
		
Click to expand...

Always about money isn’t it. quite sad when you look at what’s going on in the world 😔


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 23, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			"Sporting merit."

So that's how they'll make sure Wolves and Sheff Utd miss out on Europe next year, got it.
		
Click to expand...

Using that I’d say they’d be definite for Europe.

Seeing as Liverpool are the only team in PL to have mathematically qualified for CL, everyone else should go into the EL😉


----------



## Kellfire (Apr 23, 2020)

Looks like Timo Werner is off to Liverpool. Interesting move - almost certainly means someone is leaving considering the Japanese lad’s arrival, too. My guess would be Salah.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Apr 23, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Looks like Timo Werner is off to Liverpool. Interesting move - almost certainly means someone is leaving considering the Japanese lad’s arrival, too. My guess would be Salah.
		
Click to expand...

Shaqiri is leaving and Werner if he does arrive will be to strengthen the squad - Got to move forward and Werner would provide a direct number 9 as well as being able to play out wide


----------



## Kellfire (Apr 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Shaqiri is leaving and Werner if he does arrive will be to strengthen the squad - Got to move forward and Werner would provide a direct number 9 as well as being able to play out wide
		
Click to expand...

Werner will be the best goalscorer in the squad, imo. He’s not coming to sit on the bench behind someone like Firmino.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Apr 23, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Werner will be the best goalscorer in the squad, imo. He’s not coming to sit on the bench behind someone like Firmino.
		
Click to expand...

There is always lots of talk that we rely too much on the front three and they never get a break etc etc so then we look to bring in someone else to support and then it must mean someone is leaving. Nope - I can see Firmino dropping deeper in a 10 role with Werner in front - but it makes the squad stronger and gives more options and allows the manager to keep players fresh. I don’t see any of the two wide players leaving


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He said “some level of social distancing” - didn’t mean it’s going to be the same until the end of the year - it could be restrictions on sizes of crowds etc etc - Germany will start soon behind close doors , I suspect we will start some time in June behind closed doors
		
Click to expand...

I was talking about the players not the crowd!
What will happen if half a squad wants to play and the other half are scared and don’t want to play.
People are scared they will take it home to their families.

Nobody’s answered my question.” How do you mark your man if you have to be 2 mts away from him.”?
We can’t expect footballers to put their lives at risk no matter how much money is involved.


----------



## Bazzatron (Apr 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Using that I’d say they’d be definite for Europe.

Seeing as Liverpool are the only team in PL to have mathematically qualified for CL, everyone else should go into the EL😉
		
Click to expand...

PPG apparently, which wouldn't be great for us I don't think, we've got an "easier" run in.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There is always lots of talk that we rely too much on the front three and they never get a break etc etc so then we look to bring in someone else to support and then it must mean someone is leaving. Nope - I can see Firmino dropping deeper in a 10 role with Werner in front - but it makes the squad stronger and gives more options and allows the manager to keep players fresh. I don’t see any of the two wide players leaving
		
Click to expand...

I agree Firmino does his best work in the 10 role.
He scores important goals but his finishing is not up to a top Striker.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Apr 23, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I was talking about the players not the crowd!
What will happen if half a squad wants to play and the other half are scared and don’t want to play.
People are scared they will take it home to their families.

Nobody’s answered my question.” How do you mark your man if you have to be 2 mars away from him.”?
We can’t expect footballers to put their lives at risk no matter how much money is involved.
		
Click to expand...

If Football is allowed to start up then the players won’t have to be 2m away from other players for goodness sake - quite clearly if professional sport does start up then it will be without full social distancing etc.

These things won’t happen until the country is on the downward spiral of the virus. 

June will be my guess that the games start up


----------



## Imurg (Apr 23, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I was talking about the players not the crowd!
What will happen if half a squad wants to play and the other half are scared and don’t want to play.
People are scared they will take it home to their families.

Nobody’s answered my question.” How do you mark your man if you have to be 2 mars away from him.”?
We can’t expect footballers to put their lives at risk no matter how much money is involved.
		
Click to expand...

They wont be taking anything home because they wont be going home.
They'll have to be quarantined  from the outside world between matches and training sessions.
Any symptoms,  positive tests or breaches of quarantine and there will, have to be a 14 day lockdown for anyone who's been in contact with the carrier or potential carrier.


----------



## Slime (Apr 23, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I was talking about the players not the crowd!
What will happen if half a squad wants to play and the other half are scared and don’t want to play.
People are scared they will take it home to their families.

*Nobody’s answered my question.” How do you mark your man if you have to be 2 mts away from him.”?*
We can’t expect footballers to put their lives at risk no matter how much money is involved.
		
Click to expand...

The players are tested before the match. All players testing negative can play.
Therefore, 2 metre distancing is not required as they wouldn't be able to get infected by someone who isn't carrying it.


----------



## garyinderry (Apr 23, 2020)

Players sporadically catching the virus could be a real spanner in the works for the plans to finish the season.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 23, 2020)

Slime said:



			The players are tested before the match. All players testing negative can play.
Therefore, 2 metre distancing is not required as they wouldn't be able to get infected by someone who isn't carrying it.
		
Click to expand...

You can test negative but catch it off the door knob on the way out of the test centre.
Don’t think there is a instant test yet it takes days.
Unless the PL make their own test centre.
We will have to wait and see.
But imo it’s not fair to ask players to play when most people will still be SD.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 23, 2020)

Imurg said:



			They wont be taking anything home because they wont be going home.
They'll have to be quarantined  from the outside world between matches and training sessions.
Any symptoms,  positive tests or breaches of quarantine and there will, have to be a 14 day lockdown for anyone who's been in contact with the carrier or potential carrier.
		
Click to expand...

That would be a nightmare for the fixtures.
Any cases all his team and opponents in the last 7 days would need to isolate.
That’s why I think it’s a non starter, to many variables.
Until SD is over completely.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 23, 2020)

For those using Germany as an example I suggest that Frau Merkel is not quite as convinced as  some of the regional governors. 

Likely to be a slowing down of the easing of guidelines and football may be not  as close to a return as some hope.


----------



## Papas1982 (Apr 23, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			That would be a nightmare for the fixtures.
Any cases all his team and opponents in the last 7 days would need to isolate.
That’s why I think it’s a non starter, to many variables.
Until SD is over completely.
		
Click to expand...

They wouldn't do that at all. The would simply test all those that could have been infected. The cost of a test is insignificant to that of what cancelling the season would cost.

But, even if we have to wait until the whole country is sorted and covid no longer is a problem, The season should continue from where it was. We have a Euros to catch up on too. And then a winter world cup. There is enough time to rejig a few seasons and catch up lost time.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			They wouldn't do that at all. The would simply test all those that could have been infected. The cost of a test is insignificant to that of what cancelling the season would cost.

But, even if we have to wait until the whole country is sorted and covid no longer is a problem, The season should continue from where it was. We have a Euros to catch up on too. And then a winter world cup. There is enough time to rejig a few seasons and catch up lost time.
		
Click to expand...

Agree with the last bit.

Just a question . If a player refuses to play is he in breach of his contract.?
I can just hear the lawyers sharpening their pencils.
“ well Mr ( insert name here) why did you refuse to play as you are under contract”?
“  Well M’Lord havnt you heard there is a world wide pandemic. They won’t let the crowd in but they expect me to play against people who push and kick me , all because of the TV money!”

Unless SD ends I can’t see them playing ,just my opinion.


----------



## Papas1982 (Apr 23, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Agree with the last bit.

Just a question . If a player refuses to play is he in breach of his contract.?
I can just hear the lawyers sharpening their pencils.
“ well Mr ( insert name here) why did you refuse to play as you are under contract”?
“  Well M’Lord havnt you heard there is a world wide pandemic. They won’t let the crowd in but they expect me to play against people who push and kick me , all because of the TV money!”

Unless SD ends I can’t see them playing ,just my opinion.
		
Click to expand...

They still buy food don’t they? How does that get on their table. People are risking a lot more than they would be. They can of first refuse to work. Everyone has that choice, but fir the rest of us that means no wages. Will they settle fir that?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			They still buy food don’t they? How does that get on their table. People are risking a lot more than they would be. They can of first refuse to work. Everyone has that choice, but fir the rest of us that means no wages. Will they settle fir that?
		
Click to expand...

People are risking infection you are correct.
But a footballer is not a key worker.
It’s all about money.
I would never ask anyone to do something I would not do myself , atm I would not play football.
They could be furloughed and get their £2500 max a month.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			They still buy food don’t they? How does that get on their table. People are risking a lot more than they would be. They can of first refuse to work. Everyone has that choice, but fir the rest of us that means no wages. Will they settle fir that?
		
Click to expand...

Tbf tho they have to get much closer to each other than most of us.
Suspect they’ll be tested regularly.
Imagine if 1 player tested positive 🤯


----------



## Papas1982 (Apr 23, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Tbf tho they have to get much closer to each other than most of us.
Suspect they’ll be tested regularly.
Imagine if 1 player tested positive 🤯
		
Click to expand...

I think with the money in the sport, and the plans they could put in place. irrespective of their proximity, Less footballers would catch it than anyone else having to work. 



clubchamp98 said:



			People are risking infection you are correct.
But a footballer is not a key worker.
It’s all about money.
I would never ask anyone to do something I would not do myself , atm I would not play football.
*They could be furloughed and get their £2500 max a month*.
		
Click to expand...

They should be atm, but they aren’t because they’d then get the agents to find loophole that releases em.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I think with the money in the sport, and the plans they could put in place. irrespective of their proximity, Less footballers would catch it than anyone else having to work.



They should be atm, but they aren’t because they’d then get the agents to find loophole that releases em.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah youd think so.
UFC tried to rent a island to stage fights so their schedule wasn’t interrupted.
Didn’t work.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 24, 2020)

The problem is for me the social distancing dictates everything atm.
If we went and played football in the park we would be arrested/ warned at best.
But it’s ok for professional players.


----------



## Imurg (Apr 24, 2020)

Dutch League voided......


----------



## pauljames87 (Apr 24, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Dutch League voided......
		
Click to expand...

Morals over money


----------



## ger147 (Apr 24, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Dutch League voided......
		
Click to expand...

No other option really with major sporting events being banned in Holland until 1st Sept and only goal difference separating the top 2 in the league.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 24, 2020)

I hope the PL don't follow suit but if you are a liverpool fan I think the first bead of sweat would start to appear,  the heartbeat start to go a little faster.  The template has been set.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Apr 24, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I hope the PL don't follow suit but if you are a liverpool fan I think the first bead of sweat would start to appear,  the heartbeat start to go a little faster.  The template has been set.
		
Click to expand...

There is a lot more at stake in the Prem in regards the television rights , it wasn’t long ago that Belguim finished the league and other leagues have followed that model.

Voiding the Premier League will have major financial repercussions for all the teams and indeed the league itself - some teams will benefit from it being voided - clearly some won’t and you can see court cases straight away. 

Holland have voided the league because they have banned all professional sport until September , Germany for example are back training , can see England following the same model as Germany


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 24, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There is a lot more at stake in the Prem in regards the television rights , it wasn’t long ago that Belguim finished the league and other leagues have followed that model.

Voiding the Premier League will have major financial repercussions for all the teams and indeed the league itself - some teams will benefit from it being voided - clearly some won’t and you can see court cases straight away.

Holland have voided the league because they have banned all professional sport until September , Germany for example are back training , can see England following the same model as Germany
		
Click to expand...

I agree, I also hope we do follow Germany rather than Holland. Go on though admit it, I bet your heart missed a little beat when you saw the story 😁


----------



## larmen (Apr 24, 2020)

Germany is aiming for the 5th of May, but I am sure some regional senates (Bremen will probably go 1st again) will not allow it to happen one their turf.
It is just too early to know what is happening in 2 weeks time.


----------



## DanFST (Apr 24, 2020)

I'm all for it being started again. However what happens when one player infects a team? A few clearly can't follow the rules.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 25, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1254023631522365440
👏


----------



## Kellfire (Apr 25, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I hope the PL don't follow suit but if you are a liverpool fan I think the first bead of sweat would start to appear,  the heartbeat start to go a little faster.  The template has been set.
		
Click to expand...

Right. Here goes. I’ll only say this once - if the season is ended, I don’t know how the hell they could sort out European spots and relegation but Liverpool must be given the title, given the margin of their lead. 

That felt dirty. I’m off to shower in bleach.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 25, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			That felt dirty. I’m off to shower in bleach.
		
Click to expand...

Nooooooooooo, don't,  Trump wasn't right the other day, it was incorrect advice 😁. Hard to believe I know. 

Incidentally, you've said it now, it's out there 🙀


----------



## Fish (Apr 25, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1254023631522365440
👏
		
Click to expand...

Poor headline imo, Sky trying spin a negative, when in reality, there’s nothing other than positivity.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1254024951771906050


----------



## Fish (Apr 25, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Right. Here goes. I’ll only say this once - if the season is ended, I don’t know how the hell they could sort out European spots and relegation but Liverpool must be given the title, given the margin of their lead. 

That felt dirty. I’m off to shower in bleach.
		
Click to expand...

I think you’ll find there was a report how the European spots would be selected last week, if was something like an order of merit scenario, and meant Arsenal & Spurs both missed out. 

I’ll have a look for it.....

Edit:  Sporting merit, add United to that list. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/s...n-decided-sporting-merit-season-finished.html


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 25, 2020)

I didn’t read it like that tbh mate. 


Fish said:



			Poor headline imo, Sky trying spin a negative, when in reality, there’s nothing other than positivity.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1254024951771906050[/QUOT
		
Click to expand...


----------



## fundy (Apr 25, 2020)

Fish said:



			I think you’ll find there was a report how the European spots would be selected last week, if was something like an order of merit scenario, and meant Arsenal & Spurs both missed out.

I’ll have a look for it.....

Edit:  Sporting merit, add United to that list.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/s...n-decided-sporting-merit-season-finished.html

Click to expand...

very brave option if they go that route, theyll find themselves in court faster than lee dixon own goal against coventry lol


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 25, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Right. Here goes. I’ll only say this once - if the season is ended, I don’t know how the hell they could sort out European spots and relegation but Liverpool must be given the title, given the margin of their lead.

That felt dirty. I’m off to shower in bleach.
		
Click to expand...

Just don’t inject any!


----------



## Slime (Apr 25, 2020)

Fish said:



			I think you’ll find there was a report how the European spots would be selected last week, if was something like an order of merit scenario, and meant *Arsenal & Spurs both missed out.*

I’ll have a look for it.....

Edit:  Sporting merit, *add United to that list.*

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/s...n-decided-sporting-merit-season-finished.html

Click to expand...

Is that on the assumption that Man City are *not* banned from European competition?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Apr 25, 2020)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/52423767

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/52428362?__twitter_impression=true


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 27, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1254695661246783489
Wow 6yr 🤯

And still as funny as the day it happened 😂😂😂😂


----------



## Beezerk (Apr 28, 2020)

France have banned football until August and leagues cancelled from some reports.


----------



## Fish (Apr 28, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			France have banned football until August and leagues cancelled from some reports.
		
Click to expand...

Ligue 1 & 2 now cancelled as no sporting events to take place, even behind closed doors before September.

And FIFA Medical Committee chairman Michel D'Hooghe does not believe football should return until September 1 at the earliest.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 28, 2020)

Fish said:



			Ligue 1 & 2 now cancelled as no sporting events to take place, even behind closed doors before September.

And FIFA Medical Committee chairman Michel D'Hooghe does not believe football should return until September 1 at the earliest.
		
Click to expand...

The same body has left the decision with each countries Associations to make decisions.


----------



## Fish (Apr 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			The same body has left the decision with each countries Associations to make decisions.
		
Click to expand...

When you think that other countries are ahead of us in this pandemic and according to news reports today, we’re looking to have the highest (worse) fatalities in Europe, it makes me wonder why we seem to be trying to rush our decisions to unlock/relax and get sporting events up & running again before all of them 🤔


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 28, 2020)

Fish said:



			When you think that other countries are ahead of us in this pandemic and according to news reports today, we’re looking to have the highest (worse) fatalities in Europe, it makes me wonder why we seem to be trying to rush our decisions to unlock/relax and get sporting events up & running again before all of them 🤔
		
Click to expand...

There’s no rush to restart the season. It seems some people see next season starting is more important than finishing this one. It’s not. 

With common sense applied, I see no reason why teams can’t start training in safe numbers spread over the day So when the time comes the players aren’t too far away from being ready. 

After all, they can’t work from home and social distancing doesn’t really apply.


----------



## Captainron (Apr 29, 2020)

France will not be completing their top 2 leagues this season. 

FIFA’s top medical guy is saying that everyone should prepare for a new season and forget this one. 

This sort of thinking looks to be gaining traction.

It is a real possibility that it may be that this season is written off


----------



## Beezerk (Apr 29, 2020)

Captainron said:



			France will not be completing their top 2 leagues this season.

FIFA’s top medical guy is saying that everyone should prepare for a new season and forget this one.

This sort of thinking looks to be gaining traction.

It is a real possibility that it may be that this season is written off
		
Click to expand...

Christ the fallout would be tremendous. I'm not going to lie, I'd have a little chuckle like


----------



## Slime (Apr 29, 2020)

I just couldn't see the issue, until various football bodies decided to scrap this current season.
One day, whenever that is, football will start again ................................ just start it from where we left off a few weeks ago.
Over the following season or two things will be able to be slightly jigged until the catch-up is complete.
The problem with other nations scrapping their seasons is that European competitions will be all over the place as sides from different nations will be qualifying at different times.
Do these people ever speak to one another?


----------



## Orikoru (Apr 29, 2020)

Slime said:



			I just couldn't see the issue, until various football bodies decided to scrap this current season.
One day, whenever that is, football will start again ................................ just start it from where we left off a few weeks ago.
Over the following season or two things will be able to be slightly jigged until the catch-up is complete.
The problem with other nations scrapping their seasons is that European competitions will be all over the place as sides from different nations will be qualifying at different times.
Do these people ever speak to one another?
		
Click to expand...

100% this, it seems the most obvious thing in the world to me to just finish the league games when safety allows - Prem teams had 7 games left, Championship teams 9 games, so it would only take one month, playing Saturdays and Wednesdays. Then give them a month off and start the new season after that. Personally I would scrap the league cup for the following season so you have more time to condense the league fixtures in.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 29, 2020)

It is almost as though 'computer says no'. Brains seem unable to compute that a new season does not have to start in August or September, it could start a little later next season. If it started in October, to enable this year to finish, would it matter? They have messed the season around for a dodgy World Cup, why not for a health crisis?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 29, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It is almost as though 'computer says no'. Brains seem unable to compute that a new season does not have to start in August or September, it could start a little later next season. If it started in October, to enable this year to finish, would it matter? They have messed the season around for a dodgy World Cup, why not for a health crisis?
		
Click to expand...

How does the Euro Comps happen? Some leagues will be ready to start a new season and new comps in Sept, so if we keep delaying next season until ours is finished and that isn’t by Sept, are you suggesting everyone else waits for us?

Maybe it will come down to the minority fitting in with the majority.

I don’t understand why we think our Leagues are any more important than others.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			How does the Euro Comps happen? Some leagues will be ready to start a new season and new comps in Sept, so if we keep delaying next season until ours is finished and that isn’t by Sept, are you suggesting everyone else waits for us?

Maybe it will come down to the minority fitting in with the majority.

I don’t understand why we think our Leagues are any more important than others.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think ours is more important, I think the Dutch and France have jumped too soon. If everyone else bins off their seasons then we may have no choice but I see no reason why any of the leagues can not hang back.

Let's throw another option out there. For those who want to end now, do so, nominate your teams for the European competitions. For those who want complete their leagues, whenever that is, carry on but nominate your teams for European comps same as the other leagues have done. UEFA set a deadline and you either complete your league by then or you have to nominate teams accordingly. Those that want to can then carry on their leagues to their completion whilst playing next years European competitions at the same time.

We need a bit of creative thought right now, no need to be rigid


----------



## Liverbirdie (Apr 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			How does the Euro Comps happen? Some leagues will be ready to start a new season and new comps in Sept, so if we keep delaying next season until ours is finished and that isn’t by Sept, are you suggesting everyone else waits for us?

Maybe it will come down to the minority fitting in with the majority.

I don’t understand why we think our Leagues are any more important than others.
		
Click to expand...

They should have listened to what UEFA said, as a whole, then we wouldnt have this scenario.

There are teams all over Europe who may get promoted, in semi-finals of cups, near rare or first ever CL qualification and they may be denied "glory".

Imagine if this was the season when Wigan would have been at the QF stage of a competition they would have eventually won - a possible one in 3 lifetime shot at a major trophy.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 29, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't think ours is more important, I think the Dutch and France have jumped too soon. If everyone else bins off their seasons then we may have no choice but I see no reason why any of the leagues can not hang back.

Let's throw another option out there. For those who want to end now, do so, nominate your teams for the European competitions. For those who want complete their leagues, whenever that is, carry on but nominate your teams for European comps same as the other leagues have done. UEFA set a deadline and you either complete your league by then or you have to nominate teams accordingly. Those that want to can then carry on their leagues to their completion whilst playing next years European competitions at the same time.
		
Click to expand...

So if a team is nominated are they likely to want to play the games and risk losing out?

Mate, people are dying still, there is talk of more waves etc, do we keep delaying this or the next season until it is fully sorted or come up with a number of deaths that is an acceptable risk at Football stadiums?

ie, Start next season in Jan, another surge in Feb/Mar, oh, ok pause that season etc.

Just stop now, call it on current positions and don’t even think of starting the next one, anywhere in Europe until we have a clear picture of the risks and dangers.

Do we really want the rest of the season and next season behind closed doors?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			They should have listened to what UEFA said, as a whole, then we wouldnt have this scenario.

There are teams all over Europe who may get promoted, in semi-finals of cups, near rare or first ever CL qualification and they may be denied "glory".

Imagine if this was the season when Wigan would have been at the QF stage of a competition they would have eventually won - a possible one in 3 lifetime shot at a major trophy.
		
Click to expand...

I get that Pete, but I don’t care, Football or any Sport needs to wait until it’s safe.

We really need to sort our priorities out.


----------



## Kellfire (Apr 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			How does the Euro Comps happen? Some leagues will be ready to start a new season and new comps in Sept, so if we keep delaying next season until ours is finished and that isn’t by Sept, are you suggesting everyone else waits for us?
		
Click to expand...

Plenty of countries have different annual schedules for their leagues that massively disadvantage them for the European competitions. But no one cares because it’s not England, Spain, Italy, Germany or France.


----------



## Wolf (Apr 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			They should have listened to what UEFA said, as a whole, then we wouldnt have this scenario.

There are teams all over Europe who may get promoted, in semi-finals of cups, near rare or first ever CL qualification and they may be denied "glory".

Imagine if this was the season when Wigan would have been at the QF stage of a competition they would have eventually won - a possible one in 3 lifetime shot at a major trophy.
		
Click to expand...

But in the grand scheme of human life does any of that really matter.  Once in a lifetime shot of a trophy or a once in a lifetime opportunity to realise football isn't as important as mankind and do the right thing. 

For me football just isn't important enough to justify restarting when there are far more important things at stake.


----------



## Orikoru (Apr 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			How does the Euro Comps happen? Some leagues will be ready to start a new season and new comps in Sept, so if we keep delaying next season until ours is finished and that isn’t by Sept, are you suggesting everyone else waits for us?

Maybe it will come down to the minority fitting in with the majority.

*I don’t understand why we think our Leagues are any more important than others.*

Click to expand...

I don't think it's quite that, it's more that I couldn't really give a toss about what the other leagues are doing. I only have a vested interest in our league and what we do. That said, what's sensible for one league should be sensible for all. Euros has already gone back a year so it's not like that is fixed in stone. They could easily pencil up a schedule for all leagues that says finish the current campaign in August, play the next season October to June, Euros in August 2021 and start the following season in October 2021 as well. Then when that finishes in June 2022 they get July off anyway because the World Cup '22 isn't starting til November. Would you look at that, I've sorted it all out and it only took me three minutes.


----------



## Orikoru (Apr 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So if a team is nominated are they likely to want to play the games and risk losing out?

Mate, people are dying still, there is talk of more waves etc, do we keep delaying this or the next season until it is fully sorted or come up with a number of deaths that is an acceptable risk at Football stadiums?

ie, Start next season in Jan, another surge in Feb/Mar, oh, ok pause that season etc.

Just stop now, call it on current positions and don’t even think of starting the next one, anywhere in Europe until we have a clear picture of the risks and dangers.

Do we really want the rest of the season and next season behind closed doors?
		
Click to expand...

Whatever and whenever it ends up being, it always makes more sense to finish the current season when football is allowed to resume. It's much easier and less hassle to postpone or even cancel a season that hasn't even begun than to scrap one that was 80% complete.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So if a team is nominated are they likely to want to play the games and risk losing out?

Mate, people are dying still, there is talk of more waves etc, do we keep delaying this or the next season until it is fully sorted or come up with a number of deaths that is an acceptable risk at Football stadiums?

ie, Start next season in Jan, another surge in Feb/Mar, oh, ok pause that season etc.

Just stop now, call it on current positions and don’t even think of starting the next one, anywhere in Europe until we have a clear picture of the risks and dangers.

Do we really want the rest of the season and next season behind closed doors?
		
Click to expand...

I'm not saying that we start next week or the week after. I'm simply saying there is no need to end the current competitions early. We finish them first before we move on to the next season. When that is I don't know, I don't know when the next season starts. Maybe, in a worst case scenario that I don't expect, we finish the current season in March next year, the 2020/21 season is cancelled and we just move straight to 2021/22. I don't expect that to be the case but equally I don't see the rush to close this years competitions off. Let them finish when they finish.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 29, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I don't think it's quite that, it's more that I couldn't really give a toss about what the other leagues are doing. I only have a vested interest in our league and what we do. That said, what's sensible for one league should be sensible for all. Euros has already gone back a year so it's not like that is fixed in stone. They could easily pencil up a schedule for all leagues that says finish the current campaign in August, play the next season October to June, Euros in August 2021 and start the following season in October 2021 as well. Then when that finishes in June 2022 they get July off anyway because the World Cup '22 isn't starting til November. Would you look at that, I've sorted it all out and it only took me three minutes.
		
Click to expand...

What if next season or the Euros 21 don’t happen if the pandemic isn’t sorted? Wait 12-18 months to finish the PL and let other Nations twiddle their thumbs waiting for us.

Experts are talking about vaccines being 18-24 months away, matches played behind closed doors for the foreseeable future, what if a kit man or security guard at a football ground falls ill and dies? Back to square one?

Easier to simply stop, pause, sort out were we are as a world and then plan the future.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 29, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm not saying that we start next week or the week after. I'm simply saying there is no need to end the current competitions early. We finish them first before we move on to the next season. When that is I don't know, I don't know when the next season starts. Maybe, in a worst case scenario that I don't expect, we finish the current season in March next year, the 2020/21 season is cancelled and we just move straight to 2021/22. I don't expect that to be the case but equally I don't see the rush to close this years competitions off. Let them finish when they finish.
		
Click to expand...

And France, Belgium, Holland etc do what while they wait for us to catch up?


----------



## Orikoru (Apr 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			And France, Belgium, Holland etc do what while they wait for us to catch up?
		
Click to expand...

How are they going to be completely virus-free if we're not? Isn't everyone going to be in much the same boat? You're talking as if they'll be completely rid of it while we have it for a whole additional year??


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 29, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			How are they going to be completely virus-free if we're not? Isn't everyone going to be in much the same boat? You're talking as if they'll be completely rid of it while we have it for a whole additional year??
		
Click to expand...

No I’m not, I’m saying they’ve accepted the current season doesn’t matter compared to lives.

They are planning the next season, but have not put down any dates.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			And France, Belgium, Holland etc do what while they wait for us to catch up?
		
Click to expand...

They can do what they like. If they want to start a new season that does not affect us, us carrying on does not affect them. The query only relates to European comps and for that we simply have to nominate the teams, the same as France, Holland Belgium will have to do as they have cut their seasons short.

We can run our league season 2019/2020 at the same time as the CL 2020/2021. Why not? The dates pretty much become irrelevant, we are just playing the current league season, the current cup comp


----------



## clubchamp98 (Apr 29, 2020)

I just can’t see football resuming until social distancing is over for everyone.
How can we expect footballers to play when the crowd can’t watch purely because of SD.
So it’s any ones guess as to when leagues finish/ start.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 29, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They can do what they like. If they want to start a new season that does not affect us, us carrying on does not affect them. The query only relates to European comps and for that we simply have to nominate the teams, the same as France, Holland Belgium will have to do as they have cut their seasons short.

We can run our league season 2019/2020 at the same time as the CL 2020/2021. Why not? The dates pretty much become irrelevant, we are just playing the current league season, the current cup comp
		
Click to expand...

You’re suggesting nominating teams then finishing the league and hope the nominated teams finish in the correct position?

Then in Europe you’ll have PL 19/20, CL 19/20, EL 19/20 as well as other leagues 20/21, CL 20/21 and EL 20/21. 

Good luck with that.


----------



## Orikoru (Apr 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			No I’m not, I’m saying they’ve accepted the current season doesn’t matter compared to lives.

They are planning the next season, but have not put down any dates.
		
Click to expand...

Well I think they've been a bit stupid. It's absolutely nothing to do with lives, I don't know why you keep mentioning that in an attempt to look pious. Football will resume eventually and when it's safe, we're just talking about what happens when it does. This is the football thread after all, could we maybe discuss it without the FOOTBALL DOESN'T MATTER spiel every few posts?


----------



## Orikoru (Apr 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You’re suggesting nominating teams then finishing the league and hope the nominated teams finish in the correct position?

Then in Europe you’ll have PL 19/20, CL 19/20, EL 19/20 as well as other leagues 20/21, CL 20/21 and EL 20/21.

Good luck with that.

Click to expand...

UEFA will certainly give us priority over the likes of Holland, Belgium etc based on the amount of money we put in. Just look at the fact we have four entries into the Champions League as it is, which is pretty daft if you think about it. They will wait for us if they have to.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 29, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Well I think they've been a bit stupid. It's absolutely nothing to do with lives, I don't know why you keep mentioning that in an attempt to look pious. Football will resume eventually and when it's safe, we're just talking about what happens when it does. This is the football thread after all, could we maybe discuss it without the FOOTBALL DOESN'T MATTER spiel every few posts?
		
Click to expand...

Nice deflect getting personal when you can’t give a sensible answer!

Nowhere have I said I don’t want football back, I certainly don’t want Football behind closed doors, but hey, if you think football is more important than someone’s life then crack on.


----------



## Orikoru (Apr 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Nice deflect getting personal when you can’t give a sensible answer!

Nowhere have I said I don’t want football back, I certainly don’t want Football behind closed doors, *but hey, if you think football is more important than someone’s life then crack on.*

Click to expand...

Now I know you just said that to wind me up and I'm not biting this time.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Apr 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So if a team is nominated are they likely to want to play the games and risk losing out?

Mate, people are dying still, there is talk of more waves etc, do we keep delaying this or the next season until it is fully sorted or come up with a number of deaths that is an acceptable risk at Football stadiums?

ie, Start next season in Jan, another surge in Feb/Mar, oh, ok pause that season etc.

Just stop now, call it on current positions and don’t even think of starting the next one, anywhere in Europe until we have a clear picture of the risks and dangers.

Do we really want the rest of the season and next season behind closed doors?
		
Click to expand...

I understand that people are still dying and I also think its too, soon.

BUT, why the hurry to preserve or worry about the following season - this mud is only slung at people who want to preserve this season and not people who want to preserve next season.

The simple answer is to finish this season come what may, even if its in 2021 and then worry about the following season - ticks all the boxes, saves lives and dont start till safer.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Apr 29, 2020)

Wolf said:



			But in the grand scheme of human life does any of that really matter.  Once in a lifetime shot of a trophy or a once in a lifetime opportunity to realise football isn't as important as mankind and do the right thing.

For me football just isn't important enough to justify restarting when there are far more important things at stake.
		
Click to expand...

You just finish the season when its safe, is all i'm saying, whenever that may be - why the big worry about the following season, now?

Why is there this presumption that people who want the season finishing want it doing now or in June - people are reading what they want to read.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You’re suggesting nominating teams then finishing the league and hope the nominated teams finish in the correct position?

Then in Europe you’ll have PL 19/20, CL 19/20, EL 19/20 as well as other leagues 20/21, CL 20/21 and EL 20/21.

Good luck with that.

Click to expand...

I am saying nominating teams if the league does not finish by whatever deadline date UEFA give. This is what is going to happen in those leagues that finish early, they are having to work out a system that covers the missing games. 

After the nomination dates are closed what happens in leagues that carry on becomes irrelevant for the European competitions. If for example we do not restart until after the cut off date for European comp nominations then we probably have to freeze the league as it stands. Man Utd may be grumpy at missing out on CL, Wolves on Europa League. Not a lot we can do about that, those are the circumstances we are in right now. If Wolves end up finishing 5th then they can feel hard done to but these are not normal times. 

Whatever decision is made, this is all hypothetical of course, then don't forget all of the teams in the PL will be party to the decision being made, they are all involved in the meetings. I would not expect it to get legal on that basis.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Apr 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			And France, Belgium, Holland etc do what while they wait for us to catch up?
		
Click to expand...

Have you heard yourself - they obviously wont be able to start for 12-18 months either, will they????????

We need 2 months to close the season off, tag it on, pause, do whatever, just finish it off then start the next one in a different format for 1 season (no cups, no internationals, only 19 games - play vereyone once) - look loads of options.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Apr 29, 2020)

Finishing the season off does not equal, finishing it in June 2020 / Sept 2020 / Feb 2021.......just when its safe.


----------



## fundy (Apr 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Have you heard yourself - they obviously wont be able to start for 12-18 months either, will they????????

We need 2 months to close the season off, tag it on, pause, do whatever, just finish it off then start the next one in a different format for 1 season (no cups, no internationals, only 19 games - play vereyone once) - look loads of options.
		
Click to expand...


this is pretty much what I said at the start of this, should finish this season off as and when it is fully safe to do so, then look at where they are in the calendar and make the next year an abbreviated season if needs be (ie no home and away to halve amount of games) and then return to normal the following season

I expect the issue from the clubs against this is they will lose huge amounts of the TV revenue if this is the chosen option hence the desire to get back to playing and keep next season as planned (its still all about money sadly)


----------



## Captainron (Apr 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Finishing the season off does not equal, finishing it in June 2020 / Sept 2020 / Feb 2021.......just when its safe. 

Click to expand...

I very much doubt that will be the case Pedro. 

The FA/EUFA/FIFA will have a cut off date for the current season to be completed and I think it will mean an end to this campaign.

I would think that the current standings are used as finished standings. Liverpool get the title and We say goodbye to Bournemouth/Villa and Norwich.


----------



## fundy (Apr 29, 2020)

Captainron said:



			I very much doubt that will be the case Pedro. 

The FA/EUFA/FIFA will have a cut off date for the current season to be completed and I think it will mean an end to this campaign.

I would think that the current standings are used as finished standings. Liverpool get the title and We say goodbye to Bournemouth/Villa and Norwich.
		
Click to expand...


not a chance they relegate from the prem anyone if this season doesnt get played out, wont be starting the following season till the court cases are settled


----------



## Liverbirdie (Apr 29, 2020)

Captainron said:



			I very much doubt that will be the case Pedro.

The FA/EUFA/FIFA will have a cut off date for the current season to be completed and I think it will mean an end to this campaign.

I would think that the current standings are used as finished standings. Liverpool get the title and We say goodbye to Bournemouth/Villa and Norwich.
		
Click to expand...

It is still all up in the air, changes every day.

It was just doing my head in that people think that "season-finishers" somehow want it doing ASAP. Some of them actually seem "desparate" to make sure next season starts in August/September - but thats alright?


----------



## Captainron (Apr 29, 2020)

Other alternative is to finish off the season in their own time and miss out on the European competitions without compensation for boycotting. If this league is so important then that could be a workaround?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Have you heard yourself - they obviously wont be able to start for 12-18 months either, will they????????

We need 2 months to close the season off, tag it on, pause, do whatever, just finish it off then start the next one in a different format for 1 season (no cups, no internationals, only 19 games - play vereyone once) - look loads of options.
		
Click to expand...

You’re taking that post in isolation, in was response to LordT mentioning finishing the PL in March next year!

Therefore if Leagues in Europe want to start before then and some Leagues are finishing off this season who decides?

That’s without the debacle of transfers/contracts etc.

Whatever comes to pass you can be assured someone won’t be happy.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Apr 29, 2020)

Captainron said:



			Other alternative is to finish off the season in their own time and miss out on the European competitions without compensation for boycotting. If this league is so important then that could be a workaround?
		
Click to expand...

Most premiership seasons start 5-6 weeks before the normal CL game 1.

If you cancel the league cup, compensate league clubs, it will be back on track just by doing that, cancelling International friendlies may even bring it ahead of schedule.

You could still finish 1 season +2 months within the normal 9-10 months without an FA cup, international friendlies and league cup (for one season only).


----------



## Liverbirdie (Apr 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You’re taking that post in isolation, in was response to LordT mentioning finishing the PL in March next year!

Therefore if Leagues in Europe want to start before then and some Leagues are finishing off this season who decides?

That’s without the debacle of transfers/contracts etc.

Whatever comes to pass you can be assured someone won’t be happy.
		
Click to expand...

So if the pandemic is still bad in March next year, wouldnt it make sense to finish all the current comps in March-May, then just start again in the August 2021?

One full season written off, a season that had no games played, no rounds played, no unfair promotions / relegations etc, etc, etc


----------



## AmandaJR (Apr 29, 2020)

It would probably make things clearer if the authorities had the guts to say "whenever it is 100% safe to return to professional football we will start exactly where we finished, until completion of the 2020 season's fixtures".

With that decision made and declared the current undue haste to return would be reduced. It bothers me the stories coming out (being declared by clubs) about a start to training etc. To me this is just trying to pressure a start asap and also making sure the authorities are acutely aware of the pressure to do so.

Football, and all professional sport, should just be sitting back and waiting for it to be absolutely safe to resume. Any pushing for an early start as it suits their agenda should be ashamed.


----------



## GB72 (Apr 29, 2020)

Just my thoughts on the matter as someone with an interest in football but not a massive fan (but this applies to rugby and other team sports). I know that this is a bit extreme and would not be acceptable to most people but it would be safe (or as safe as it can be). Suspend the season until the date next year that matches started being postponed. Finish off this season in the exact same time frame as it would have this year and move on to the 2021/22 season as we would have done normally. Effectively it would abandon the 2020/21 season Extend all TV deals for a further year to take into account the lost season which would allow clubs time to cut their cloth accordingly to account for the lost TV revenue or agree an extended deal with reduced payments each year to take into account the loss. If there is any earlier lifting of restrictions, clubs are allowed to arrange friendly matches for which they can negotiate their own TV deals or nominate friendly weekends and take those into account in any reduction on future TV income across the current deal.

In all reality, european football is not going to happen this season due to travel and hotel restrictions. As such, this system would allow for the current euorpean tournaments to be concluded next year, again in the same time frame that they would have been completed this year. 

For me, playing behind closed doors should be off the table. Aside from the inherent risk to players and staff, I find it hard to believe that fans will not turn up to the vicinity of the grounds, think it happened in europe with the matches behind closed doors before the lockdowns. 

There is the problem of lost revenue but this would be the safest and fairest approach that I can think of with the least chance of promotion and relegation being settled in court (which it would be if the matches are not played).


----------



## Imurg (Apr 29, 2020)

I can see problems further down the line..
Just say all football is restarted from September.
Those leagues that scrapped this season choose who goes into the European competitions, those that finish their leagues have their qualifiers and the European games start a bit later than normal.
Just after New Year one country, irrelevant which one, has another outbreak and has to lockdown again.
If it's us or Germany or France, Spain, Italy it's going to bring the european games to a halt because they're bound to have teams in the latter stages..
And so it goes on.
And just say we get the leagues going again in July. Halfway to finishing the season a team gets enough positive cases that the whole club has to lockdown....what then?
There are so many "what ifs" and any of them could happen.....
I also think that the season has to be either scrapped or finished whenever that may be.
Unless positions are mathematically decided you cant award titles or relegate/promote....


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			So if the pandemic is still bad in March next year, wouldnt it make sense to finish all the current comps in March-May, then just start again in the August 2021?

One full season written off, a season that had no games played, no rounds played, no unfair promotions / relegations etc, etc, etc
		
Click to expand...

Yes, absolutely, but they haven’t done that, once again FIFA/UEFA have failed to lead.

The easiest solution would of been cancel next season and plan every League to finish the 19/20 season by the start of season 21/22, they haven’t and now every League seems to be doing it their own way.

The reason timelines are being introduced is UEFA wanting this seasons CL and EL finished before the next one starts and therefore National Leagues are trying to fit that scenario.

You must think about the financial implications of writing a season off completely, that’s probably billions of Pounds Clubs can’t afford to lose, plus players finishing careers early etc.


----------



## fundy (Apr 29, 2020)

GB72 said:



			Just my thoughts on the matter as someone with an interest in football but not a massive fan (but this applies to rugby and other team sports). I know that this is a bit extreme and would not be acceptable to most people but it would be safe (or as safe as it can be). Suspend the season until the date next year that matches started being postponed. Finish off this season in the exact same time frame as it would have this year and move on to the 2021/22 season as we would have done normally. Effectively it would abandon the 2020/21 season Extend all TV deals for a further year to take into account the lost season which would allow clubs time to cut their cloth accordingly to account for the lost TV revenue or agree an extended deal with reduced payments each year to take into account the loss. If there is any earlier lifting of restrictions, clubs are allowed to arrange friendly matches for which they can negotiate their own TV deals or nominate friendly weekends and take those into account in any reduction on future TV income across the current deal.

In all reality, european football is not going to happen this season due to travel and hotel restrictions. As such, this system would allow for the current euorpean tournaments to be concluded next year, again in the same time frame that they would have been completed this year. 

For me, playing behind closed doors should be off the table. Aside from the inherent risk to players and staff, I find it hard to believe that fans will not turn up to the vicinity of the grounds, think it happened in europe with the matches behind closed doors before the lockdowns. 

There is the problem of lost revenue but this would be the safest and fairest approach that I can think of with the least chance of promotion and relegation being settled in court (which it would be if the matches are not played).
		
Click to expand...


no way theyre not going to play football until March next year unless they absolutely have to. be very few professional football clubs left by that point!


----------



## Captainron (Apr 29, 2020)

Some thoughts that there could be a second Corona spike in September which would really throw all this onto the rubbish dump.


----------



## GB72 (Apr 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			no way theyre not going to play football until March next year unless they absolutely have to. be very few professional football clubs left by that point!
		
Click to expand...

Surely though if you are playing behind closed doors then you are spending money with no additional income and so increase losses. Sad to say but it appears that the whole situation is dependent on what can be negotiated in relation to TV companies.


----------



## fundy (Apr 29, 2020)

GB72 said:



			Surely though if you are playing behind closed doors then you are spending money with no additional income and so increase losses. Sad to say but it appears that the whole situation is dependent on what can be negotiated in relation to TV companies.
		
Click to expand...

well via fans subscriptions theyve been funding most of the circus for the last 20 years, their contracts along with some of the player contracts going to be central to what happens for sure 

at least they have tv contracts going forward, sounds like prem rugby could be in a big hole on that front once this one expires after next season


----------



## GB72 (Apr 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			well via fans subscriptions theyve been funding most of the circus for the last 20 years, their contracts along with some of the player contracts going to be central to what happens for sure

at least they have tv contracts going forward, sounds like prem rugby could be in a big hole on that front once this one expires after next season
		
Click to expand...

Agree, BT sport had it when they had less football to attract subscribers. Now they have plenty of football it is less necessary.


----------



## fundy (Apr 29, 2020)

GB72 said:



			Agree, BT sport had it when they had less football to attract subscribers. Now they have plenty of football it is less necessary.
		
Click to expand...


theyve already let their exclusive negotiating period expire on all accounts, expect it ends up back with Sky at a heftily reduced rate which will put a lot of the clubs in perilous financial positions if theyre not already


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 29, 2020)

We are generally chatting about the PL, obviously as this thread is about it. However, what about the levels below? Those clubs are dependent on gate receipts and many are teetering on a financial precipice already. We could see a lot of clubs from Championship down disappearing in these next few months. The championship in particular has too many players on inflated wages for the division and they are not sustainable with no income coming in and no re-start in sight.


----------



## Slime (Apr 29, 2020)

Captainron said:



			I very much doubt that will be the case Pedro.

The FA/EUFA/FIFA will have a cut off date for the current season to be completed and I think it will mean an end to this campaign.

I would think that the current standings are used as finished standings. Liverpool get the title and *We say goodbye to Bournemouth/Villa and Norwich.*

Click to expand...

With Villa having played a game fewer than the others!
A game, which if they won, would take them out of the relegation zone and put Watford in it.
That MUST NOT be allowed to happen, it's far too penal and just morally wrong.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 29, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We are generally chatting about the PL, obviously as this thread is about it. However, what about the levels below? Those clubs are dependent on gate receipts and many are teetering on a financial precipice already. We could see a lot of clubs from Championship down disappearing in these next few months. The championship in particular has too many players on inflated wages for the division and they are not sustainable with no income coming in and no re-start in sight.
		
Click to expand...

Sadly the reality is only those (apart from a tiny minority) outside the PL actually care, hence the comments about binning the FA Cup or Carabao Cup next season to fit in CL & EL games next season.

Is there life outside the PL?


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Sadly the reality is only those (apart from a tiny minority) outside the PL actually care, hence the comments about binning the FA Cup or Carabao Cup next season to fit in CL & EL games next season.

Is there life outside the PL? 

Click to expand...

There's the problem. 

It is assumed that if, in this country,  you are interested in football you must mean the PL.

With Sky I have the full sports package as it is the only way I can get to see EFL. If there was some way in which I could get live TV coverage of the lower leagues without the PL I would be quite happy.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 29, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			There's the problem.

It is assumed that if, in this country,  you are interested in football you must mean the PL.

With Sky I have the full sports package as it is the only way I can get to see EFL. If there was some way in which I could get live TV coverage of the lower leagues without the PL I would be quite happy.
		
Click to expand...

Come on! You know Football was only invented in 1992.


----------



## Orikoru (Apr 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Sadly the reality is only those (apart from a tiny minority) outside the PL actually care, hence the comments about binning the FA Cup or Carabao Cup next season to fit in CL & EL games next season.

Is there life outside the PL? 

Click to expand...

But that is precisely why you _can't_ just scrap the season and why it must be finished. As you touch upon, lots of people saying "just award Liverpool the league" as if that's the only thing that matters. But then do we award Leeds and West Brom promotion? 'Award' Norwich and Villa relegation even though Villa could have escaped with their game in hand? There is no fair way to approach any of it other than finishing the season when it is deemed safe to play football again.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 29, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			But that is precisely why you _can't_ just scrap the season and why it must be finished. As you touch upon, lots of people saying "just award Liverpool the league" as if that's the only thing that matters. But then do we award Leeds and West Brom promotion? 'Award' Norwich and Villa relegation even though Villa could have escaped with their game in hand? There is no fair way to approach any of it other than finishing the season when it is deemed safe to play football again.
		
Click to expand...

Just to clarify for you, imo, we(UEFA) need to draw a line in the sand, let’s say 30th November 2020 (could be any date) and state all fixtures, League and Cups need to be finished.

If not completed by then choice is either scrap season all together and start again or accept league positions as they stand.

Now, if no football has been played by the date chosen I’d suggest we are still in a big mess and it maybe sometime before it restarts.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Apr 29, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Yes, absolutely, but they haven’t done that, once again FIFA/UEFA have failed to lead.

The easiest solution would of been cancel next season and plan every League to finish the 19/20 season by the start of season 21/22, they haven’t and now every League seems to be doing it their own way.

The reason timelines are being introduced is UEFA wanting this seasons CL and EL finished before the next one starts and therefore National Leagues are trying to fit that scenario.

You must think about the financial implications of writing a season off completely, that’s probably billions of Pounds Clubs can’t afford to lose, plus players finishing careers early etc.
		
Click to expand...

Well as I suggested, just have a 9 month season as normal, with the end of this campaign tagged on, just dispense with 2 (unplayed) cups, and compensate the EFL and conference clubs for lost revenue. God knows they'll need it.  

And when its reasonably safe, or to the point when every other place is open anyway - schools, workplaces, pubs, restaurants etc


----------



## Fish (Apr 29, 2020)




----------



## Fish (Apr 29, 2020)

I see Trevor Cherry has passed also 😟


----------



## 4LEX (Apr 30, 2020)

I can't see this season finishing. I'd even question next season or the Euros taking place next summer, let alone anything else. Sporting integrity means trying to get the TV money, nothing more or less. How can you even thinking of giving football players regular tests when key workers aren't getting them? Just so they can kick a ball about in an empty stadium, to decide something that really means nothing? The talk is of 5 subs (which will favour the biggest clubs and squads) and no contact at corners or set pieces. How can you have one set of rules for 3/4 of the season and then change them while still banging on about integrity?

I think they'll be two options;

Null and void and everyone takes it on the chin, both clubs, fans and TV companies. 

You void the cups that are left and the league is settled on a points per game basis.

Both ways are less than perfect and will see a loss in TV revenue and clubs folding without huge help. This situation should really be used as a ground zero for transfer fees and wages, sometimes a forest needs to burn to the ground before a better landscape can emerge. Football as we knew it was toxic. Over inflated TV subs, ticket prices, player wages, transfer fees and the culture of agents. Let's hope this finishes that era as we know it.


----------



## Orikoru (Apr 30, 2020)

4LEX said:



			I can't see this season finishing. I'd even question next season or the Euros taking place next summer, let alone anything else. Sporting integrity means trying to get the TV money, nothing more or less. How can you even thinking of giving football players regular tests when key workers aren't getting them? Just so they can kick a ball about in an empty stadium, to decide something that really means nothing? The talk is of 5 subs (which will favour the biggest clubs and squads)* and no contact at corners or set pieces. *How can you have one set of rules for 3/4 of the season and then change them while still banging on about integrity?

I think they'll be two options;

Null and void and everyone takes it on the chin, both clubs, fans and TV companies.

You void the cups that are left and the league is settled on a points per game basis.

Both ways are less than perfect and will see a loss in TV revenue and clubs folding without huge help. This situation should really be used as a ground zero for transfer fees and wages, sometimes a forest needs to burn to the ground before a better landscape can emerge. Football as we knew it was toxic. Over inflated TV subs, ticket prices, player wages, transfer fees and the culture of agents. Let's hope this finishes that era as we know it.
		
Click to expand...

That part in bold is just not remotely viable at all. If they're saying that then it's too soon to start playing again. That isn't football that would just be nonsense.


----------



## Pathetic Shark (Apr 30, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We could see a lot of clubs from Championship down disappearing in these next few months. The championship in particular has too many players on inflated wages for the division and they are not sustainable with no income coming in and no re-start in sight.
		
Click to expand...

Wild idea - how about releasing some of those players from their contracts to thereby reduce the wage bill and make the club solvent again.   When clubs are furloughing or laying off support staff yet continuing to play vast amounts to individual players, it does not make business or common sense.    Won't happen of course because the search for on-field success far outweighs any economic planning so if some of those clubs go bust, perhaps that will be a lesson to others.  Or not.


----------



## rudebhoy (Apr 30, 2020)

Slime said:



			With Villa having played a game fewer than the others!
A game, which if they won, would take them out of the relegation zone and put Watford in it.
That MUST NOT be allowed to happen, it's far too penal and just morally wrong.
		
Click to expand...

Surely they would calculate the final places on an average points per game basis? No idea if that would save Villa, but it would be the fairest way of deciding.


----------



## pauljames87 (Apr 30, 2020)

rudebhoy said:



			Surely they would calculate the final places on an average points per game basis? No idea if that would save Villa, but it would be the fairest way of deciding.
		
Click to expand...

I haven't worked it out so don't know if it benefits west ham or not

However I'd say top 2 up from champ with only 2 down from prem

Each division 

You can't do it for play offs.


----------



## Orikoru (Apr 30, 2020)

rudebhoy said:



			Surely they would calculate the final places on an average points per game basis? No idea if that would save Villa, but it would be the fairest way of deciding.
		
Click to expand...

No, Villa would be on 0.89 and Bournemouth & Watford would be on 0.93 so the table stays the same.


----------



## rudebhoy (Apr 30, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			I haven't worked it out so don't know if it benefits west ham or not

However I'd say top 2 up from champ with only 2 down from prem

Each division

You can't do it for play offs.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. That was my assumption.


----------



## Slime (Apr 30, 2020)

rudebhoy said:



			Surely they would calculate the final places on an average points per game basis? No idea if that would save Villa, but *it would be the fairest way of deciding.*

Click to expand...

No.
The fairest way of deciding is to finish the season!
Actually, that is the ONLY fair way of deciding where clubs are placed in the league table.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 30, 2020)

Pathetic Shark said:



			Wild idea - how about releasing some of those players from their contracts to thereby reduce the wage bill and make the club solvent again.   When clubs are furloughing or laying off support staff yet continuing to play vast amounts to individual players, it does not make business or common sense.    Won't happen of course because the search for on-field success far outweighs any economic planning so if some of those clubs go bust, perhaps that will be a lesson to others.  Or not.
		
Click to expand...

I think that would be difficult to get past the PFA. There is also the balancing act of a player being an asset. The player has a book value so if you release them early, probably having to pay them off to a large degree, then you lose that book value. Lower league clubs survive both on gate receipts and also selling players to generate cash. They can rarely afford to give players away unless they have become a total drain. (I appreciate they currently are a total drain but the clubs will hold onto them for as long as possible in the hope that they will be playing again soon)


----------



## USER1999 (Apr 30, 2020)

But points per game isn't fair either, as they haven't all played the same teams. Some might have an easier run in, some tougher. Who ever gets relegated from a not finished season will likely take it to court. May be there could be a ludicrous parachute payment as compensation?


----------



## Pathetic Shark (Apr 30, 2020)

There is no perfect scenario.  And whichever one is adopted, the teams that feel aggrieved will immediately take legal action.   

The NHL has a similar situation with teams in playoff spots or just missing out.  They will go to points per game to take into account games in hand etc but already there are complaints about teams on hot streaks, teams playing tougher schedules, teams with more road games - it is just one excuse after another from the teams missing out.

At least the lawyers will make a ton of money out of what is happening.


----------



## Slime (Apr 30, 2020)

Pathetic Shark said:



*There is no perfect scenario. * And whichever one is adopted, the teams that feel aggrieved will immediately take legal action. 

The NHL has a similar situation with teams in playoff spots or just missing out.  They will go to points per game to take into account games in hand etc but already there are complaints about teams on hot streaks, teams playing tougher schedules, teams with more road games - it is just one excuse after another from the teams missing out.

At least the lawyers will make a ton of money out of what is happening.
		
Click to expand...

Yes there is ...................................... finish this season as soon as it's safe to do so!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2020)

Slime said:



			Yes there is ...................................... finish this season as soon as it's safe to do so!
		
Click to expand...

With no time constraint?


----------



## Imurg (Apr 30, 2020)

Slime said:



			Yes there is ...................................... finish this season as soon as it's safe to do so!
		
Click to expand...

Still not a perfect scenario.
Maybe the best case....
But, as said, how long do you drag it out for?


----------



## Slime (Apr 30, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			With no time constraint?
		
Click to expand...

Correct.
Once it's safe to play football again, just carry on from where we left off.
If that impinges on next season, make alterations to that season before the season starts.


----------



## GB72 (Apr 30, 2020)

The way I see it is that it is that everyone is waiting on everyone else. UEFA still believes that there will be European football next season. That would seem the least likely thing out of all of it but they are not going to ditch their cash cow. If UEFA agreed that there would be no football in Europe next season, that would remove the time element and remove any issues about deciding European places and that would ease some pressure. I am guessing that the time pressure being applied by UEFA is because they need to get champions league qualifying rounds started in July. 

With that elephant out of the room, each league would be free to proceed as they saw fit with the only caveat being that they have to have European qualifying teams sorted by next June. We could then conclude the season at our own pace.


----------



## Imurg (Apr 30, 2020)

Slime said:



			Correct.
Once it's safe to play football again, just carry on from where we left off.
If that impinges on next season, make alterations to that season before the season starts.
		
Click to expand...

Not saying that's a bad idea but what happens to players contracts.
Some are up in June, some others maybe before they get going again...can there be a transfer window?
There are so many hurdles that need to be thought about to the Nth degree....


----------



## fundy (Apr 30, 2020)

GB72 said:



			The way I see it is that it is that everyone is waiting on everyone else. UEFA still believes that there will be European football next season. That would seem the least likely thing out of all of it but they are not going to ditch their cash cow. If UEFA agreed that there would be no football in Europe next season, that would remove the time element and remove any issues about deciding European places and that would ease some pressure. I am guessing that the time pressure being applied by UEFA is because they need to get champions league qualifying rounds started in July. 

With that elephant out of the room, each league would be free to proceed as they saw fit with the only caveat being that they have to have European qualifying teams sorted by next June. We could then conclude the season at our own pace.
		
Click to expand...


the problem is, that elephant is worth about $3bn


----------



## Dan2501 (Apr 30, 2020)

Slime said:



			Correct.
Once it's safe to play football again, just carry on from where we left off.
If that impinges on next season, make alterations to that season before the season starts.
		
Click to expand...

I don't see how that's practical. It would have implications on the rest of Europe and the European competitions which begin their qualification process at the beginning of July. If the other major European leagues decide to void their seasons and start a fresh next season, we have to follow suit. Continuing where we left off with no time constraint also causes issues with player contracts which end at the end of June, transfer windows and when we have a summer break prior to the beginning of next season. Players won't be able to finish the end of the season and go straight through to next season without a break with a major international competition at the end of it, will be so many injuries. Teams are also going to need some sort of "pre-season" before we start up again, they're not going to be able to go straight back into competition cold or there's the chance of even more injuries. Considering we have no idea when we're going to be out of isolation and able to get that started again, this season could be months away from restarting, at which point it seems crazy to not just call this season void, have a proper summer pre-season and start a fresh next season in August.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2020)

Slime said:



			Correct.
Once it's safe to play football again, just carry on from where we left off.
If that impinges on next season, make alterations to that season before the season starts.
		
Click to expand...

Won’t work.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Apr 30, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Not saying that's a bad idea but what happens to players contracts.
Some are up in June, some others maybe before they get going again...can there be a transfer window?
There are so many hurdles that need to be thought about to the Nth degree....
		
Click to expand...

If you can be bothered going back 10 pages or so I, StuC and LB covered this. You may not agree with our proposal but they were suggestions that are manageable.

The shortened version is you either a/ automatically roll contracts over until the season is complete. Potential for legal challenges to this so if not possible then go to option b/ players can sign for other clubs at the end of their contract but the relevant league does not allow registration of the player to transfer until the current season is deemed complete. 

Option B may leave some teams with a player or two short in their squad but squads at most levels are big enough to cope. If your contract is up is that player key to a team? Anyway, special times, special measures.


----------



## GB72 (Apr 30, 2020)

fundy said:



			the problem is, that elephant is worth about $3bn
		
Click to expand...

True but realism is needed. European travel is not going to be an option by the time qualifying is due to start.


----------



## fundy (Apr 30, 2020)

GB72 said:



			True but realism is needed. European travel is not going to be an option by the time qualifying is due to start.
		
Click to expand...

cant say I disagree, dont see it transpiring that way either, lawyers going to make a lot money no doubt


----------



## GB72 (Apr 30, 2020)

fundy said:



			cant say I disagree, dont see it transpiring that way either, lawyers going to make a lot money no doubt
		
Click to expand...

Probably not but cannot believe that the rights agreements do not have a force majeure clause in them for times when matches cannot be played. Not even sure how this will work as, at the moment. UEFA are going to be running this year's competition and next year's concurrently.


----------



## fundy (Apr 30, 2020)

GB72 said:



			Probably not but cannot believe that the rights agreements do not have a force majeure clause in them for times when matches cannot be played. Not even sure how this will work as, at the moment. UEFA are going to be running this year's competition and next year's concurrently.
		
Click to expand...

youve got as much idea as they have


----------



## Fade and Die (Apr 30, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			I don't see how that's practical. It would have implications on the rest of Europe and the European competitions which begin their qualification process at the beginning of July. If the other major European leagues decide to void their seasons and start a fresh next season, we have to follow suit. Continuing where we left off with no time constraint also causes issues with player contracts which end at the end of June, transfer windows and when we have a summer break prior to the beginning of next season. Players won't be able to finish the end of the season and go straight through to next season without a break with a major international competition at the end of it, will be so many injuries. Teams are also going to need some sort of "pre-season" before we start up again, they're not going to be able to go straight back into competition cold or there's the chance of even more injuries. Considering we have no idea when we're going to be out of isolation and able to get that started again, this season could be months away from restarting, at which point it seems crazy to not just call this season void, have a proper summer pre-season and start a fresh next season in August.
		
Click to expand...

I used to think that it was important to conclude the season but the longer it is suspended I think voiding it is the only viable answer. Scrub it out and start again with the same teams next season (whenever that might be possible) Anything else is unsatisfactory and open to legal challenges.


----------



## Beezerk (Apr 30, 2020)

PSG awarded the French league title, well that would be one problem solved for the PL 🤔


----------



## fundy (Apr 30, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			PSG awarded the French league title, well that would be one problem solved for the PL 🤔
		
Click to expand...

does it have a great big asterix by their name


----------



## Liverbirdie (Apr 30, 2020)

fundy said:



			does it have a great big asterix by their name 

Click to expand...

Well he was a Gaul, after all. 

And Asterix was the little fella.


----------



## Beezerk (Apr 30, 2020)

fundy said:



			does it have a great big asterix by their name 

Click to expand...

Just like Liverpool 😅
Would they be the only team to win the English top flight league without the season being completed?


----------



## Slime (Apr 30, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			I used to think that it was important to conclude the season but the longer it is suspended I think voiding it is the only viable answer. *Scrub it out and start again *with the same teams next season (whenever that might be possible) *Anything else is unsatisfactory and open to legal challenges.*

Click to expand...

Don't you think, for example, that Leeds would legally challenge their sudden lack of promotion?


----------



## GB72 (Apr 30, 2020)

Might we get left with no choice. With France ending the season, if Spain or Germany follow will the pressure be on to do the same to settle those in Europe next season


----------



## Fade and Die (Apr 30, 2020)

Slime said:



			Don't you think, for example, that Leeds would legally challenge their sudden lack of promotion?
		
Click to expand...

It would need to be backed by UEFA but if the whole season was void I cannot see their argument...worldwide pandemic, 3million infected, quarter of a million dead. No winners, no losers. what would be the basis of their legal challenge? I know it’s hard on some teams, especially Liverpool and Leeds but the longer it drags on the more irrelevant it becomes.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2020)

No team in any sport should be "awarded" any trophy unless its mathematically won. 

The suggestion from some to null and void the season but allow 2 teams promotion is absurd and a total contradiction.


----------



## Imurg (Apr 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			No team in any sport should be "awarded" any trophy unless its mathematically won. 

The suggestion from some to null and void the season but allow 2 teams promotion is absurd and a total contradiction.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly 
It's either got to be completed or it's got to be scrapped..no halfway house. 
Sadly for Liverpool fans I think every passing day brings the latter closer.....


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Exactly
It's either got to be completed or it's got to be scrapped..no halfway house.
Sadly for Liverpool fans I think every passing day brings the latter closer.....
		
Click to expand...

I dont think it would be fair to scrap the season. The likes of Coventry who have been smashed from pillar to post these last 15yrs  should be protected. 

As for us, we've been the best team by a distance this season. I've seen some brilliant football and performances, nothing will take that away from the team.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			It would need to be backed by UEFA but if the whole season was void I cannot see their argument...worldwide pandemic, 3million infected, quarter of a million dead. No winners, no losers. what would be the basis of their legal challenge? I know it’s hard on some teams, especially Liverpool and Leeds but *the longer it drags on the more irrelevant it becomes*.
		
Click to expand...

From what I've heard today, the plans are in place for the season restarting early June providing it's safe but it will be behind closed doors. The next 2 weeks we'll start to see and hear plans and no doubt the picture will be become a lot clearer.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2020)

Surely  those who are calling for a null and void season cant be happy to have a new season start in august/september without a vaccine in place?


----------



## Fade and Die (Apr 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Surely  those who are calling for a null and void season cant be happy to have a new season start in august/september without a vaccine in place?
		
Click to expand...


I’m not “calling” for a scrapped season I can just see it going that way, your right regarding next season though, I can see it being delayed.


----------



## GB72 (Apr 30, 2020)

If matches are played behind closed doors, how do you keep fans from gathering around the grounds and being a potential drain on emergency services. I know it was early in the pandemic but did hundreds of fans turn up outside grounds to cheer when a couple of European matches were played behind closed doors


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			I’m not “calling” for a scrapped season I can just see it going that way, your right regarding next season though, I can see it being delayed.
		
Click to expand...

It was a general comment not aimed at anyone in particular.

Hypothetical.....

So if next season does get delayed til say November, there would be a massive strain to get the season finished by may in order to play the Euros. 

We could restart this season in november finish in jan. 4 months off then the euros into a new season.....

Cancelling this season without having a clear picture of how next season will look would be ludicrous imo.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2020)

GB72 said:



			If matches are played behind closed doors, how do you keep fans from gathering around the grounds and being a potential drain on emergency services. I know it was early in the pandemic but did hundreds of fans turn up outside grounds to cheer when a couple of European matches were played behind closed doors
		
Click to expand...

Road closures/barriers and plenty of stewards 2mtrs apart and police within a mile radius of every stadium. Sorted.


----------



## GB72 (Apr 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It was a general comment not aimed at anyone in particular.

Hypothetical.....

So if next season does get delayed til say November, there would be a massive strain to get the season finished by may in order to play the Euros.

We could restart this season in november finish in jan. 4 months off then the euros into a new season.....

Cancelling this season without having a clear picture of how next season will look would be ludicrous imo.
		
Click to expand...

This is what I would do, finish this season later in the year or early next year as well as the current European cups. You then have the financial issue if losing the 2020/21 season. 

Pretty much a micro version of the global position economy v safety.


----------



## GB72 (Apr 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Road closures/barriers and plenty of stewards 2mtrs apart and police within a mile radius of every stadium. Sorted.
		
Click to expand...

With numbers down due to illness etc, how many police can you spare to close all of the roads around a stadium. Plus crowds forming at the road blocks. Guessing it is also a bigger police operation to deal with crowd dispersal rather than control


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It was a general comment not aimed at anyone in particular.

Hypothetical.....

So if next season does get delayed til say November, there would be a massive strain to get the season finished by may in order to play the Euros.

We could restart this season in november finish in jan. 4 months off then the euros into a new season.....

Cancelling this season without having a clear picture of how next season will look would be ludicrous imo.
		
Click to expand...

Makes sense, but only for our League, what if UEFA want this seasons CL & EL to finish from then or run the 20/21 CL & EL campaigns.

How could any English teams enter?

Until we know exactly how UEFA want next season to run and when, I don’t think the PL can make a final decision.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Apr 30, 2020)

I don't think it's possible to make a decision until we know when football can safely restart. 

If it's possible to restart by June/July then complete the season and juggle the start of next season to make it work. If we can't start until Sept/Oct then would making this season null and void and going ahead with next season as planned make sense? If we can't start again until Dec/Jan then it seems reasonable to scrap next season and play this one out to a finish.

One idea I saw floated yesterday was to (hopefully) complete this season later this year, finishing by Oct/Nov. Then having a break and running next season (20/21) from Jan to Oct/Nov with a summer break for the Euros. The 21/22 season would again be Jan to Oct with a break before the World Cup starts in Qatar in Nov. This would obviously need some agreement with UEFA with how it would fit in with CL and EL and would need other leagues to come on board but at first look it seems workable. Also would need to try to work out how to get back from that to a "normal" Sept to May season.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2020)

GB72 said:



			With numbers down due to illness etc, how many police can you spare to close all of the roads around a stadium. Plus crowds forming at the road blocks. Guessing it is also a bigger police operation to deal with crowd dispersal rather than control
		
Click to expand...

Well they’re not doing nothing else are they, after all the burglary rates are down 😉

I‘d have a zero tolerance approach and give them power to taser anyone in a Football shirt,especially the likes of Dave with No 1 Dad on the back.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2020)

If we don’t start until late in the year what happens with transfers/contracts etc.

If Newcastle sale goes through could the PL stop them from buying players or players in teams near the bottom being forced to stay or not being being able to play.

I think Fundy mentioned contracts the other day, the law suits would imo, only become more likely the longer this season is delayed.

Is anyone aware if any legal action is being threatened by Clubs in those foreign Leagues that have awarded League positions etc?


----------



## ColchesterFC (Apr 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Well they’re not doing nothing else are they, after all the burglary rates are down 😉
		
Click to expand...

Not forgetting that in the last month the Tories have managed to get violence and anti-social behaviour in pubs down to zero and shoplifting crimes are also way down. Seems like we should have plenty of coppers to spare to police a few barricades.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



*Makes sense, but only for our League,* what if UEFA want this seasons CL & EL to finish from then or run the 20/21 CL & EL campaigns.

How could any English teams enter?

Until we know exactly how UEFA want next season to run and when, I don’t think the PL can make a final decision.
		
Click to expand...

Isnt that the most important thing here? 

Should we really run our leagues to UEFA‘s tune?

Can UEFA as governing body make a decision whereby all European leagues are null and void? Also, can clubs refuse to take part in UEFA competitions?


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Not forgetting that in the last month the Tories have managed to get violence and anti-social behaviour in pubs down to zero and shoplifting crimes are also way down. Seems like we should have plenty of coppers to spare to police a few barricades. 

Click to expand...

Please don’t say the T word on this thread, SR’s alarm will go off and he’ll be on here arguing the toss 🙄😉


----------



## larmen (Apr 30, 2020)

In the Netherlands where they have abandoned the season they now have a legal challenge from the top 2 clubs in division 2.
In France where they close the season and count current standing I expect legal challenges from the bottom 2 teams in league 1. After all, 1 of them had all difficult games already.

2 scenarios, none of them is right. I am happy not to have to make a decision, but I lean towards abandon rather than counting. Not seeing any football being played until maybe August, I think.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Apr 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Isnt that the most important thing here?

*Should we really run our leagues to UEFA‘s tune?*

Can UEFA as governing body make a decision whereby all European leagues are null and void? Also, can clubs refuse to take part in UEFA competitions?
		
Click to expand...

Can our clubs afford to annoy UEFA with regards to the CL and EL? I've no idea what the breakdown of income between the PL and CL looks like but would it be feasible to say to to UEFA, "This is what we're doing, if as a result we miss out on your comps for a year then so be it, but we're going to do this". Could our big clubs get by wihtout CL/EL income?


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			If we don’t start until late in the year what happens with transfers/contracts etc.

If Newcastle sale goes through could the PL stop them from buying players or players in teams near the bottom being forced to stay or not being being able to play.

I think Fundy mentioned contracts the other day, the law suits would imo, only become more likely the longer this season is delayed.

Is anyone aware if any legal action is being threatened by Clubs in those foreign Leagues that have awarded League positions etc?
		
Click to expand...

Players contracts is a complex issue but one that could be resolved. I doubt we’ll be seeing massive amounts on transfers being spent over the next few seasons Due to the uncertainty.

if the season gets restarted then no teams should be able to register players. If players out of contract don’t want to stay and play then they leave but cannot sign for another team til the season has finished.

Dont forget all of these players are insured for vast sums, none will be asked to risk their careers without cover as such.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Can our clubs afford to annoy UEFA with regards to the CL and EL? I've no idea what the breakdown of income between the PL and CL looks like but would it be feasible to say to to UEFA, "This is what we're doing, if as a result we miss out on your comps for a year then so be it, but we're going to do this". Could our big clubs get by wihtout CL/EL income?
		
Click to expand...

We possibly could but the same could be said can UEFA afford to not have English sides in Europe. Would BT pay £1bn for rights, can UEFA afford to say no to that sort of money?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Isnt that the most important thing here?

Should we really run our leagues to UEFA‘s tune?

Can UEFA as governing body make a decision whereby all European leagues are null and void? Also, can clubs refuse to take part in UEFA competitions?
		
Click to expand...

UEFA have set a deadline of 25th May for Leagues to nominate next years entrants in to CL and EL comps.

Also on that day Leagues must inform them whether they want to cancel or complete their season

We are “affiliated” to them so I can’t see us being allowed to get our own way all the time.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Apr 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Players contracts is a complex issue but one that could be resolved. I doubt we’ll be seeing massive amounts on transfers being spent over the next few seasons Due to the uncertainty.

if the season gets restarted then no teams should be able to register players. If players out of contract don’t want to stay and play then they leave but cannot sign for another team til the season has finished.

*Dont forget all of these players are insured for vast sums,* none will be asked to risk their careers without cover as such.
		
Click to expand...

Only at the top level Stu, for those lower down the leagues this might not always be the case. So far my club have announced that due to the current uncertainty they are going to have to let at least 4 (4 so far announced) out of contract players go when their contracts are up at the end of the (planned) season. There are estimates that up to 800 players outside the PL could be released by their clubs at the end of their contracts which could be before the season finishes. For some clubs this could mean that they are finishing the season with youth players drafted in to make up the numbers.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			UEFA have set a deadline of 25th May for Leagues to nominate next years entrants in to CL and EL comps.

Also on that day Leagues must inform them whether they want to cancel or complete their season

We are “affiliated” to them so I can’t see us being allowed to get our own way all the time.
		
Click to expand...

I thought the deadline was just for the leagues to decide if the season goes ahead or not.

So being affiliated doesn’t really hold much weight. We could in theory leave it couldn’t we? I think UEFA will be flexible with all countries tbh, they’ll need the big boys in their show piece comps.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Players contracts is a complex issue but one that could be resolved. I doubt we’ll be seeing massive amounts on transfers being spent over the next few seasons Due to the uncertainty.

if the season gets restarted then no teams should be able to register players. If players out of contract don’t want to stay and play then they leave but cannot sign for another team til the season has finished.

Dont forget all of these players are insured for vast sums, none will be asked to risk their careers without cover as such.
		
Click to expand...

Why should a player suffer due to none of his own making, he’s honoured his contract and now you’d be restricting his trade.

The more I think about it and after what Pete posted yesterday I really think they need to come up with a hard and fast date and on that date a final decision is made, we can’t keep saying, June or Sept or Nov or Jan 21 etc, there has to come a point.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I thought the deadline was just for the leagues to decide if the season goes ahead or not.

So being affiliated doesn’t really hold much weight. We could in theory leave it couldn’t we? I think UEFA will be flexible with all countries tbh, they’ll need the big boys in their show piece comps.
		
Click to expand...

Apolgies 25th May is the deadline for the French League to nominate for next years comps.

I think affiliation is everything to be honest, I can’t see the FA/PL opting in and out when they like, it affects the National side, Foreign players registrations etc.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Only at the top level Stu, for those lower down the leagues this might not always be the case. So far my club have announced that due to the current uncertainty they are going to have to let at least 4 (4 so far announced) out of contract players go when their contracts are up at the end of the (planned) season. There are estimates that up to 800 players outside the PL could be released by their clubs at the end of their contracts which could be before the season finishes. For some clubs this could mean that they are finishing the season with youth players drafted in to make up the numbers.
		
Click to expand...

Yes fair point but nevertheless those players in the lower leagues will also be insured to their relative value. My point was if out of contract players do stay and play, Im certain the clubs would have to have them insured in line with fa rules and regulations. 

I think there’ll be many lower league sides in trouble and I think there’s plans underfoot to help them all.

With those 800 players out of contract, how many realistiacally do you think will have something concrete for next season? 50 if your lucky I’d guess.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Apr 30, 2020)

We don’t even have a date when the country will try and get up & running again,but obviously we need one for football 🙄
Shall we just put peoples safety first? 👍🏻


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Why should a player suffer due to none of his own making, he’s honoured his contract and now you’d be restricting his trade.

The more I think about it and after what Pete posted yesterday I really think they need to come up with a hard and fast date and on that date a final decision is made, we can’t keep saying, June or Sept or Nov or Jan 21 etc, there has to come a point.
		
Click to expand...

Why should a club suffer due to none of their own making? The players have been paid with no issues and now they’re jumping ship? It works both ways. I think there needs to be flexibility on both sides. It would be wrong to allow any player to move and play for a rival in the same season. It’s against the rules as it stands.

From what I was told today,  in the next 2wks we’ll have a hard and fast date confirmed and a plan of fixtures etc.


----------



## Papas1982 (Apr 30, 2020)

Haven't read the thread  for a few days so this may have been posted already. 

From what I can summise, the biggest reason the Season needs to be cancelled/Pro rata is for the European places? 

Imo the season has to be completed. Even if we accept uefas terms and pro rata the positions for qualification purposes. So it's harsh on wolves who could have sneaked 4/5th. We then complete our season once we can start again. We cancel the two cups to make space. And team that qualified for Europe in the extended season gets a wuropa place as a compromise (if they don't finish higher in the 20/21 season). 

Being in the pl is worth more than being in the CL. So we shouldn't be dictated to by them.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Haven't read the thread  for a few days so this may have been posted already.

From what I can summise, the biggest reason the Season needs to be cancelled/Pro rata is for the European places?

Imo the season has to be completed. Even if we accept uefas terms and pro rata the positions for qualification purposes. So it's harsh on wolves who could have sneaked 4/5th. We then complete our season once we can start again. We cancel the two cups to make space. And team that qualified for Europe in the extended season gets a wuropa place as a compromise (if they don't finish higher in the 20/21 season).

Being in the pl is worth more than being in the CL. So we shouldn't be dictated to by them.
		
Click to expand...

And Sheff United. They’ve had a tremendous season and I think Wilder is a real contender for manager of the season.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Why should a club suffer due to none of their own making? The players have been paid with no issues and now they’re jumping ship? It works both ways. I think there needs to be flexibility on both sides. It would be wrong to allow any player to move and play for a rival in the same season. It’s against the rules as it stands.

From what I was told today,  in the next 2wks we’ll have a hard and fast date confirmed and a plan of fixtures etc.
		
Click to expand...

Out of contract isn’t jumping ship! What if they got a career ending injury playing for a Club after they should of left? Just say, unlucky mate at least you’re insured.

Flexibility and legally covered are 2 different things.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Haven't read the thread  for a few days so this may have been posted already.

From what I can summise, the biggest reason the Season needs to be cancelled/Pro rata is for the European places?

Imo the season has to be completed. Even if we accept uefas terms and pro rata the positions for qualification purposes. So it's harsh on wolves who could have sneaked 4/5th. We then complete our season once we can start again. We cancel the two cups to make space. And team that qualified for Europe in the extended season gets a wuropa place as a compromise (if they don't finish higher in the 20/21 season).

Being in the pl is worth more than being in the CL. So we shouldn't be dictated to by them.
		
Click to expand...

So you say to Norwich or Newcastle, “sorry we’re binning the FA Cup, you don’t mind possibly missing out on a EL place and getting relegated do you?”

UEFA already dictate to us, FFP?


----------



## ColchesterFC (Apr 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes fair point but nevertheless those players in the lower leagues will also be insured to their relative value. My point was if out of contract players do stay and play, Im certain the clubs would have to have them insured in line with fa rules and regulations.

I think there’ll be many lower league sides in trouble and I think there’s plans underfoot to help them all.

*With those 800 players out of contract, how many realistiacally do you think will have something concrete for next season? 50 if your lucky I’d guess.*

Click to expand...

In the current climate then I would say you were right. In normal circumstances then maybe 4/5/6 times that amount, possibly half if they were lucky? Clubs aren't going to take a chance on signing a player if they don't know when that player will be able to play for them. And the player isn't likely to want to risk an injury that might cost him the chance of a contract at a new club.

I have the same argument when it comes to the suggestion of compensating lower league clubs if the cups were to be scrapped to be able to finish the current season and play the next season. How do you fairly work out how much to pay? My lot (somehow) managed to get through to a League Cup quarter final this year and were drawn against Man Utd away. The revenue from that cup run would have covered almost all of the running costs for the season. Next year we would've been equally as likely to go out to Barrow in the first round.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Out of contract isn’t jumping ship! What if they got a career ending injury playing for a Club after they should of left? Just say, unlucky mate at least you’re insured.

Flexibility and legally covered are 2 different things.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah.

it really is this simple, lets use Lallana for example, he's out of contract 30th June.

scenario 1. season restarts 7th June  and on the 28th June he does his knee and ends his career. He should’ve been playing for someone else in 72hours what happens then?? He’s insured and he receives a payment from the insurance. Set for life.

Scenario 2. Season restarts 7th June  he’s already agreed 2nd May  to extend his contract by 1 month and in the meantime he signs a pre-contract with Leicester to start 1st August and on the 5th July he does his knee and ends his career.  He should’ve been playing for someone else in 3weeks  what happens then?? He’s insured and he receives a payment from the insurance. Set for life.

scenario 3. season Restarts he leaves on 30th June with 4 games to play, he shouldnt be allowed to play for leicester til end of this season.

scenario 4 season restarts he signs a new improved contract at Liverpool for 3 seasons, doess his knee 28th June and ends his career. He’s insured, receives a pay off and he’s set for life

injuries can happen at anytime, in training, at home or in a match.  The fear of ending your career shouldn’t be an excuse in this exceptional circumstance.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Apr 30, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Why should a player suffer due to none of his own making, he’s honoured his contract and now you’d be restricting his trade.

The more I think about it and after what Pete posted yesterday I really think they need to come up with a hard and fast date and on that date a final decision is made, we can’t keep saying, June or Sept or Nov or Jan 21 etc, there has to come a point.
		
Click to expand...

I dont know if your mis-quoting me, again, but I am of the opinion that we have a few different scenarios and we enact one of them once we are in a lot better position, be it June / Sept / Jan or even next March. I havent called for or applied a cut off date.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah.

it really is this simple, lets use Lallana for example, he's out of contract 30th June.

scenario 1. season restarts 7th June  and on the 28th June he does his knee and ends his career. He should’ve been playing for someone else in 72hours what happens then?? He’s insured and he receives a payment from the insurance. Set for life.

Scenario 2. Season restarts 7th June  he’s already agreed 2nd May  to extend his contract by 1 month and in the meantime he signs a pre-contract with Leicester to start 1st August and on the 5th July he does his knee and ends his career.  He should’ve been playing for someone else in 3weeks  what happens then?? He’s insured and he receives a payment from the insurance. Set for life.

scenario 3. season Restarts he leaves on 30th June with 4 games to play, he shouldnt be allowed to play for leicester til end of this season.

scenario 4 season restarts he signs a new improved contract at Liverpool for 3 seasons, doess his knee 28th June and ends his career. He’s insured, receives a pay off and he’s set for life

injuries can happen at anytime, in training, at home or in a match.  The fear of ending your career shouldn’t be an excuse in this exceptional circumstance.
		
Click to expand...

Every scenario apart from 3 he’s under contract, doing what his contract states and taking the risk.

3 is punishing him.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Apr 30, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			In the current climate then I would say you were right. In normal circumstances then maybe 4/5/6 times that amount, possibly half if they were lucky? Clubs aren't going to take a chance on signing a player if they don't know when that player will be able to play for them. And the player isn't likely to want to risk an injury that might cost him the chance of a contract at a new club.

I have the same argument when it comes to the suggestion of compensating lower league clubs if the cups were to be scrapped to be able to finish the current season and play the next season. How do you fairly work out how much to pay? My lot (somehow) managed to get through to a League Cup quarter final this year and were drawn against Man Utd away. The revenue from that cup run would have covered almost all of the running costs for the season. Next year we would've been equally as likely to go out to Barrow in the first round.
		
Click to expand...

You apply it across the board in the division, or slightly reward the league positions.

For league 1 and 2 there are no guarantees if they would have got through 1 more round or 5 rounds and the vast majority dont, so a guranteed sum would go down well as it also gives all 24 teams in a division a decent sum, rather than just 3-4 - so much chance of the whole league also surviving intact.

The premier league would also have to be generous.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I dont know if your mis-quoting me, again, but I am of the opinion that we have a few different scenarios and we enact one of them once we are in a lot better position, be it June / Sept / Jan or even next March. I havent called for or applied a cut off date.

Click to expand...

No, what you posted was, imo, the best option, I’m adding a cut off date as I can’t see this season hanging over us in 12-18 months time.

Apologies if my post confused you.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Every scenario apart from 3 he’s under contract, doing what his contract states and taking the risk.

3 is punishing him.
		
Click to expand...

He’s under contract with Leicester.

The current rules are there in place so no player transferred can play mid season, so as the season is still active he can’t play for his new side. Simple.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			He’s under contract with Leicester.

The current rules are there in place so no player transferred can play mid season, so as the season is still active he can’t play for his new side. Simple.
		
Click to expand...

Come on Stu it’s not simple if we go 9-12 months waiting to restart, those rules are for normal circumstances, these are extraordinary times, surely if you are going to come up with a workable solution it has to at least try and be workable for everyone.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Apr 30, 2020)

This thing on player contracts who are running out of contracts in June:-

Football is going to be a lot poorer in the next 12 months, if not longer, and clubs will be not only cutting their cloth, but there also may not be as many clubs that are solvent.

So for the people who are saying that players running out of contracts in June, being in an invidious position if the clubs extend their contracts temporarily for a few months "as an option". I'm not being funny, but there is a high chance that not only may someone not actually sign you, as not as much money about, but you may be glad of the extra 2-3 months pay!!!!

If Lallana is on say 100k a week at Liverpool, can you see someone even offering him 75k a week at the moment, especially as the wrong side of 30?


----------



## GB72 (Apr 30, 2020)

Maybe it is just a waiting game now, we hold on to see what Spain, Italy  and Germany do and if they both want to wait and finish the season and we follow suit, I cannot see how uefa can oppose it.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Apr 30, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			You apply it across the board in the division, or slightly reward the league positions.

For league 1 and 2 there are no guarantees if they would have got through 1 more round or 5 rounds and the vast majority dont, so a guranteed sum would go down well as it also gives all 24 teams in a division a decent sum, rather than just 3-4 - so much chance of the whole league also surviving intact.

The premier league would also have to be generous.

Click to expand...

Any chance that for this one off situation we could reward based on league position? Chuck an extra couple of million in the direction of my lot then I'm behind you all the way.


----------



## fundy (Apr 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			And Sheff United. They’ve had a tremendous season and I think Wilder is a real contender for manager of the season.
		
Click to expand...

2nd in a photo in a 1 horse race!


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2020)

fundy said:



			2nd in a photo in a 1 horse race!
		
Click to expand...

In that case I’ll have backed him😂


----------



## fundy (Apr 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			In that case I’ll have backed him😂
		
Click to expand...

you and me both fella lol


----------



## Papas1982 (Apr 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			And Sheff United. They’ve had a tremendous season and I think Wilder is a real contender for manager of the season.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah that's fair too. Just picked wolves out the air. 

It's not perfect and harsh they'll likely miss CL, but PL can only make decision on our leagues plans. Not europes.


----------



## Papas1982 (Apr 30, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So you say to Norwich or Newcastle, “sorry we’re binning the FA Cup, you don’t mind possibly missing out on a EL place and getting relegated do you?”

UEFA already dictate to us, FFP?
		
Click to expand...

No. I'm saying we bin of *Next *seasons cups. So wolves, Sheff get a second European season if they miss out. 

Not this years cups. We conclude them as we would the league.


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2020)

fundy said:



			2nd in a photo in a 1 horse race!
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂 what I’d give for the thrill of watching racing and having a bet right now!!!


----------



## fundy (Apr 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			😂😂😂 what I’d give for the thrill of watching racing and having a bet right now!!!
		
Click to expand...

emptied my accounts pretty much after cheltenham   guess ill be looking at the UFC card for next saturday in the week


----------



## Stuart_C (Apr 30, 2020)

fundy said:



*emptied my accounts pretty much after cheltenham*   guess ill be looking at the UFC card for next saturday in the week 

Click to expand...

Haha no one likes a show off, I did have a go on the Belarussian premier league the other week 😀


----------



## fundy (May 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha no one likes a show off, I did have a go on the Belarussian premier league the other week 😀
		
Click to expand...

haha you and half the footie punters on the belarussian stuff


----------



## Junior (May 1, 2020)

I'd love the season to be finished.  There are a number of issues that need to be addressed.  The clubs who are successful and win titles etc need to stress to fans not to congregate at the club or in the streets.  I'm not just thinking about Liverpool but the winners of every league.   Also, from a player perspective, safety needs to be paramount.  Would you feel "safe" going to work and potentially being infected.    Worst case, a player or coach may contract the virus and die. 

My overall point is that its not easy.  Personally, Test the players, scrap pre season and try and get it all done in 4 weeks in July.


----------



## 2blue (May 1, 2020)

Junior said:



			I'd love the season to be finished.  There are a number of issues that need to be addressed.  The clubs who are successful and win titles etc need to stress to fans not to congregate at the club or in the streets.  I'm not just thinking about Liverpool but the winners of every league.   Also, from a player perspective, safety needs to be paramount.  Would you feel "safe" going to work and potentially being infected.    Worst case, a player or coach may contract the virus and die.

My overall point is that its not easy.  Personally, Test the players, scrap pre season and try and get it all done in 4 weeks in July.
		
Click to expand...

Sounds like a plan unless it deprives essential workers of tests.


----------



## GB72 (May 1, 2020)

Junior said:



			I'd love the season to be finished.  There are a number of issues that need to be addressed.  The clubs who are successful and win titles etc need to stress to fans not to congregate at the club or in the streets.  I'm not just thinking about Liverpool but the winners of every league.   Also, from a player perspective, safety needs to be paramount.  Would you feel "safe" going to work and potentially being infected.    Worst case, a player or coach may contract the virus and die.

My overall point is that its not easy.  Personally, Test the players, scrap pre season and try and get it all done in 4 weeks in July.
		
Click to expand...

Again, not picking on Liverpool, merely using them as an example. How realistic is it that the fans will all sit at home on the day that they formally win the tile after what is it, about 30 years. Just not going to happen, going to be gatherings of fans all over the city and that is another reason not to proceed until the restrictions have been pretty heavily lifted.


----------



## Wolf (May 1, 2020)

GB72 said:



			Again, not picking on Liverpool, merely using them as an example. How realistic is it that the fans will all sit at home on the day that they formally win the tile after what is it, about 30 years. Just not going to happen, going to be gatherings of fans all over the city and that is another reason not to proceed until the restrictions have been pretty heavily lifted.
		
Click to expand...

Judging by the gathering in my village for the fish and chip van on Wednesday , I'd hazard a guess that there would still be a few thousand muppets gathering somewhere to celebrate. 

This is the bigger concern than clubs playing for me.


----------



## GB72 (May 1, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Judging by the gathering in my village for the fish and chip van on Wednesday , I'd hazard a guess that there would still be a few thousand muppets gathering somewhere to celebrate.

This is the bigger concern than clubs playing for me.
		
Click to expand...

It is, there are so many risks associated with starting the season now but this is football and so it has to go ahead asap. Pubs, restaurants and no end of businesses that offer a far less significant risk have to stay closed and lose all income but this is football so just go ahead when you want. Who wins the league, who plays in Europe, who gets the cups is pretty much irrelevant in the wide scheme of things and, in all honesty, that has nothing to do with it anyway, it is all about the money. Who gets the millions of pounds of premiership money, who gets the lucrative champions league money, who loses out on the premiership money, those are the questions we are answering not some higher ideal of sporting integrity it is all about who gets the cash and whilst people are still dying in the hundreds every day, the conversation gets more and more sordid.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (May 1, 2020)

GB72 said:



			Again, not picking on Liverpool, merely using them as an example. How realistic is it that the fans will all sit at home on the day that they formally win the tile after what is it, about 30 years. Just not going to happen, going to be gatherings of fans all over the city and that is another reason not to proceed until the restrictions have been pretty heavily lifted.
		
Click to expand...

There won’t be any issue with their fans in LPool, they’ll be at home as there’s no flights from Ireland or Norway at the moment.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 1, 2020)

GB72 said:



			Again, not picking on Liverpool, merely using them as an example. How realistic is it that the fans will all sit at home on the day that they formally win the tile after what is it, about 30 years. Just not going to happen, going to be gatherings of fans all over the city and that is another reason not to proceed until the restrictions have been pretty heavily lifted.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately that will happen but I'm pretty sure the numbers will be massively lower than you think. The mood locally between fans is one of caution, I dont think many want to out themselves into a position. Like I said last night, a mile radius road closures, heavy police presence and stewarding will reduce those issues.

That said the trophy presentation is probably 2-3months away, hopefully we'll be in a better position and the lockdown/movement will have been eased.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			There won’t be any issue with their fans in LPool, they’ll be at home as there’s no flights from Ireland or Norway at the moment.

Click to expand...

Hopefully theyll permanently ban them 🤭


----------



## nickjdavis (May 1, 2020)

The way to give us space/time to finish the current season is to restructure the  2020/21 season and make it shorter. Doesn't matter if it starts in November/December if this allows us to complete the current season without cramming a whole load of games into a short space of time, risking injury to players. Somethings got to give and it is far better that it is next season that hasn't even started rather then the current one where so much effort has gone into it.

Sure we might not know who the European entries are for UEFA's comps in time for UEFA's deadline and would have to nominate our entries....though why UEFA need to know who they are so early is beyond me. Maybe UEFA need to look at restructuring their competitions for one season....maybe reverting to the old European Cup straight knockout format. 

What is clear is that we cannot complete the 2019/20 season to everyones satisfaction, and hold a full 2020/21 season and accommodate full UEFA European competitions and the European Championships in 2021. The FA, Football League, UEFA, TV companies etc need to be flexible in their approaches and try to come up with a structure and scenario where everyone sees some benefits...yes there will be reduced revenue across the board, but at least there would be some "product" to consume. There's too much protectionism going on.

For one season only what we need to do is something similar to what they did back in the 1940's when normal football was suspended and they ran the War Leagues. These leagues changed each year slightly in their structure but for the most part were regionalized. We could easily introduce a 9 league format, with 10 or 11 clubs in each league, regionally based (so 3 northern leagues, 3 midlands, 3 southern) and tiered with the best teams in League 1 etc etc. This reduces the season to an 18 or 20 game affair which could easily be accomplished in a restricted time frame.

We would then kick off the 2021/22 season back in a normal league format based on the relegations and promotions from the 2019/20 season.


----------



## AmandaJR (May 1, 2020)

I just had a thought - where's Tashyboy?


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 1, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			I just had a thought - where's Tashyboy?
		
Click to expand...

Think he threw a strop because people got fed up of him bragging.


----------



## Imurg (May 1, 2020)

He's around .......just not posting.


----------



## AmandaJR (May 1, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Think he threw a strop because people got fed up of him bragging.
		
Click to expand...

I thought it might have been since his "pre" covid travels etc. Oh well...


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 1, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			I thought it might have been since his "pre" covid travels etc. Oh well...
		
Click to expand...

Yeah it probably was 😂


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 1, 2020)

GB72 said:



			It is, there are so many risks associated with starting the season now but this is football and so it has to go ahead asap. Pubs, restaurants and no end of businesses that offer a far less significant risk have to stay closed and lose all income but this is football so just go ahead when you want. Who wins the league, who plays in Europe, who gets the cups is pretty much irrelevant in the wide scheme of things and, in all honesty, that has nothing to do with it anyway, it is all about the money. Who gets the millions of pounds of premiership money, who gets the lucrative champions league money, who loses out on the premiership money, those are the questions we are answering not some higher ideal of sporting integrity it is all about who gets the cash and whilst people are still dying in the hundreds every day, the conversation gets more and more sordid.
		
Click to expand...

But dont throw everyone in the same boat of wanting it done ASAP - Uefa might, the league may (or may not), individual clubs, fans players may be happy to wait but will have individual opinions.

I'm sure there are lots of people out there who want to send their kids back to school ASAP, get back to work ASAP, go the park, play golf ASAP and bugger the consequences, but if footballers want to in a more controlled environment - damn them to hell!!!

Turn it on its head - why should football feel its so special to wait until there is 0 % chance of infection - what makes them so special?


----------



## GB72 (May 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			But dont throw everyone in the same boat of wanting it done ASAP - Uefa might, the legaue may (or may not), individual clubs, fans players may be happy to wait but will have individual opinions.

I'm sure there are lots of people out there who want to send their kids back to school ASAP, get back to work ASAP, go the park, play golf ASAP and bugger the consequences, but if footballers want to in a more controlled environment - damn them to hell!!!

Turn it on its head - why should football feel its so special to wait until there is 0 % chance of infection - what makes them so special? 

Click to expand...

Apologies, my comments were aimed at the football authorities and clubs and not the fans. In reality the stance from the authorities should be 'lets see how this pans out and we can make decisions once it is safe to do so' but instead we have teams in training, UEFA deadlines etc. Not saying football should wait until there is zero chance but a football match requires people in close proximity and so should be waiting until there is a sufficient let up to allow that plus NHS capacity to allow ambulance cover etc. On a side note, I would rather wait until it can be played in front of a crowd but that is a whole other point.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 1, 2020)

GB72 said:



			Apologies, my comments were aimed at the football authorities and clubs and not the fans. In *reality the stance from the authorities should be 'lets see how this pans out and we can make decisions once it is safe to do so' but instead we have teams in training, UEFA deadlines etc*. Not saying football should wait until there is zero chance but a football match requires people in close proximity and so should be waiting until there is a sufficient let up to allow that plus NHS capacity to allow ambulance cover etc. On a side note, I would rather wait until it can be played in front of a crowd but that is a whole other point.
		
Click to expand...

Fair point, Theres very little leadership from the Government nevermind the footballling authorities. In an ideal world FIFA/UEFA should be leading by example and saying no football til xxxx date then there’s no issues then because everyone it’s treated equally.

At what point do we deem it “safe to do so”? 0 deaths? Less than 100deaths? More?


----------



## Imurg (May 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Fair point, Theres very little leadership from the Government nevermind the footballling authorities. In an ideal world FIFA/UEFA should be leading by example and saying no football til xxxx date then there’s no issues then because everyone it’s treated equally.

At what point do we deem it “safe to do so”? 0 deaths? Less than 100deaths? More?
		
Click to expand...

Purely from the PR perspective football needs to wait until the likelihood of a player, official or anyone else involved has a similar chance of catching something and dying from it as they had 3 months ago.
They can do testing and isolating etc to bring that risk down but imagine the outcry if any of them got infected- same with any area of society that gets opened up but the impact of top player or manager getting it would be huge.


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 1, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Purely from the PR perspective football needs to wait until the likelihood of a player, official or anyone else involved has a similar chance of catching something and dying from it as they had 3 months ago.
They can do testing and isolating etc to bring that risk down but imagine the outcry if any of them got infected- same with any area of society that gets opened up but the impact of top player or manager getting it would be huge.
		
Click to expand...

Okay, but if your talking perspective, if the schools re-open in 2 weeks and a teacher gets it - will they then shut all schools again, or be an outcry if a teacher dies. No there wont.

Maybe its just bad if famous people die, is not as if its been easy to get all footballers to take a pay cut, never mind a massive one.

So they want to still have 90% of their wages, but some (like Aguero), dont want to run - poor mite.


----------



## AmandaJR (May 1, 2020)

Why shouldn't Aguero be scared of getting the virus? I am.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (May 1, 2020)

I think they should just call each league now, with the current league positions deciding the outcome.
Put this season to bed, and concentrate on next season.


----------



## Slime (May 1, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I think they should just call each league now, with the current league positions deciding the outcome.
*Put this season to bed, and concentrate on next season.*

Click to expand...

I think that would be so utterly wrong.
We shouldn't end this season when we're so far through it.
Surely it would be better to alter a season that's not even begun, that'd be fair for everyone as they'd all know what's occurring before a ball has been kicked.


----------



## Orikoru (May 1, 2020)

Yeah I'm sure Villa will just happily concentrate on next season after they've been fraudulently relegated.


----------



## Bazzatron (May 1, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I think they should just call each league now, with the current league positions deciding the outcome.
Put this season to bed, and concentrate on next season.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, concentrate on something that hasn't even started over something that's almost done.


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 1, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Why shouldn't Aguero be scared of getting the virus? I am.
		
Click to expand...

I'm scared of getting it, but I'm still going to work everyday.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (May 1, 2020)

Just read


Liverbirdie said:



			I'm scared of getting it, but I'm still going to work everyday.
		
Click to expand...

Bloody hell Pete, what job do you do were you’re risking getting a big sweaty footballer chasing you around and trying climb all over you at times.


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Just read

Bloody hell Pete, what job do you do were you’re risking getting a big sweaty footballer chasing you around and trying climb all over you at times.

Click to expand...

I moonlight as a lap dancer in a gentleman's club - that close enough?


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (May 1, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah I'm sure Villa will just happily concentrate on next season after they've been fraudulently relegated. 

Click to expand...

16 clubs have played 29 games so let the remaining 4 play their games in hand at the earliest possible opportunity and then call it on the points already obtained. 

I realise that not all clubs will have played each other twice but 29 of 38 is representative. 

Prolonging the season too far creates too many problems over contracts etc;


----------



## Fish (May 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I moonlight as a lap dancer in a gentleman's club - that close enough? 

Click to expand...


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 1, 2020)

Fish said:



View attachment 30363

Click to expand...

Subscriber's edition for you?


----------



## Ye Olde Boomer (May 1, 2020)

Perhaps the FA can try oblong balls and hard composite helmets with face guards during the pandemic.
It wouldn't be the most stupid thing people are doing these days.


----------



## AmandaJR (May 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'm scared of getting it, but I'm still going to work everyday.
		
Click to expand...

In your work you spend most of it in direct contact with other humans?


----------



## fundy (May 1, 2020)

Sounds like theyre still hoping to finish the season, most likely at neutral venues

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52500593


----------



## HomerJSimpson (May 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			Sounds like theyre still hoping to finish the season, most likely at neutral venues

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52500593

Click to expand...

I think neutral venues isn't a bad idea. Would they then be able to do it like the early stages of a EC or WC and have two (even 3 games) a day. Surely that would make it easier to compact the season. Things like FA cup semi finals already played at neutral venues so not sure I accept the argument that playing not playing at home is that strong


----------



## fundy (May 1, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I think neutral venues isn't a bad idea. Would they then be able to do it like the early stages of a EC or WC and have two (even 3 games) a day. Surely that would make it easier to compact the season. Things like FA cup semi finals already played at neutral venues so not sure I accept the argument that playing not playing at home is that strong
		
Click to expand...

been 129 home wins and 87 away wins (plus 72 draws) in the prem so far, home advantage almost worth half a point on average, will definitely be winners and losers if they go to neutral venues based on which games sides have left


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 1, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			In your work you spend most of it in direct contact with other humans?
		
Click to expand...

Some of our engineers are borderline, but yes to an extent, all of who are untested, come to work via various modes of private and public transport.

I'm sure with the things they are considering putting in place that they may be in a safer environment.

Do you think if City were 20 odd points clear that Aguero wouldnt want to finish the season, honestly?


----------



## AmandaJR (May 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Some of our engineers are borderline, but yes to an extent, all of who are untested, come to work via various modes of private and public transport.

I'm sure with the things they are considering putting in place that they may be in a safer environment.

Do you think if City were 20 odd points clear that Aguero wouldnt want to finish the season, honestly?
		
Click to expand...

That's not what he said at all. In fact he said he was ok as he just lived with his girlfriend but others had families to worry about.

There are loads of footballers who deserve a slagging but I aint buying that Sergio is one of them.

Do you really think he cares that much about this season one way or another? I don't. This virus is all that matters. Give Liverpool the title. Don't play the cups that are left. Whatever...it is not worth the risk and I agree with him.


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 1, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1256318838754488320

Yeah let’s get football up and running again


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 1, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			That's not what he said at all. In fact he said he was ok as he just lived with his girlfriend but others had families to worry about.

There are loads of footballers who deserve a slagging but I aint buying that Sergio is one of them.

Do you really think he cares that much about this season one way or another? I don't. This virus is all that matters. Give Liverpool the title. Don't play the cups that are left. Whatever...it is not worth the risk and I agree with him.
		
Click to expand...

Will you go and play golf in 1-2 weeks time if the courses are open?


----------



## ColchesterFC (May 1, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1256318838754488320

Yeah let’s get football up and running again
		
Click to expand...

"Three members of German football club FC Cologne have tested positive for Covid-19, the club has confirmed.

The Bundesliga side said the entire team, as well as coaching and backroom staff, were tested on Thursday.

The three individuals who tested positive were not displaying any symptoms, the club said, but would spend 14 days in quarantine at home. *Group training at the club would continue,* it added."

Well that seems like a sensible decision.


----------



## GB72 (May 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			been 129 home wins and 87 away wins (plus 72 draws) in the prem so far, home advantage almost worth half a point on average, will definitely be winners and losers if they go to neutral venues based on which games sides have left
		
Click to expand...

True but neutral venues should help with the issue of fans turning up at the ground so an improvement. Pity it is not still there or you could have quarantined all of the players at the Olympic village and played all of the matches at West Ham's ground😁


----------



## USER1999 (May 1, 2020)

I have some sympathy with Aguero. Covid19 can lead to scarring on the lungs. For an elite level athlete this isn't lethal, but it is career over. So why would they not be worried?


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			I have some sympathy with Aguero. Covid19 can lead to scarring on the lungs. For an elite level athlete this isn't lethal, but it is career over. So why would they not be worried?
		
Click to expand...

 I dont think anyone is saying anyone shouldnt be worried, but life has to move towards normalcy in different parts of life - work, life, leisure, sport, holidays. Otherwise we would all be in lockdown for 3 years if you wanted to make 99% sure.


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Will you go and play golf in 1-2 weeks time if the courses are open?
		
Click to expand...

What as that got to do with this?? 😐


----------



## USER1999 (May 1, 2020)

For sure, but he is minted, has a few years left at the top level, why risk a few years at bonkers money for the sske of 6 months. It's not like he is a plumber, with 3 kids, a mortgage, etc.


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			For sure, but he is minted, has a few years left at the top level, why risk a few years at bonkers money for the sske of 6 months. It's not like he is a plumber, with 3 kids, a mortgage, etc.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, so were possibly back to footballers living in their own little coccoon, again.


----------



## Slime (May 1, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			That's not what he said at all. In fact he said he was ok as he just lived with his girlfriend but others had families to worry about.

There are loads of footballers who deserve a slagging but I aint buying that Sergio is one of them.

Do you really think he cares that much about this season one way or another? I don't. This virus is all that matters. Give Liverpool the title. Don't play the cups that are left. Whatever...it is not worth the risk and I agree with him.
		
Click to expand...

He actually said "*The majority of players* are scared because they have children and families," 
How does he know, has he asked them or is he just assuming?


----------



## rudebhoy (May 2, 2020)

Slime said:



			He actually said "*The majority of players* are scared because they have children and families,"
How does he know, has he asked them or is he just assuming?
		
Click to expand...

It's his opinion. Which is fair enough.


----------



## Slime (May 2, 2020)

rudebhoy said:



			It's his opinion. Which is fair enough.
		
Click to expand...

Then he should have stated that, rather than come across as 'the footballers' mouthpiece'.


----------



## AmandaJR (May 2, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Will you go and play golf in 1-2 weeks time if the courses are open?
		
Click to expand...

Are you for real? Social distancing is 2m and easily achieved on a golf course. Hardly a comparison to a professional football match.

1000s have died and are dying and a guy who is very professional, gets on with his job, doesn't get involved with the press makes a statment rightly expressing concern and you think it's based upon league positions. Beggars belief. He has a team mate in David Silva whose child has had serious health issues...that's just what we know about. But no...according to you his statement is because he wants...well what exactly?? Simply for care to be taken and not an obscene rush to play football again.

I'm out. Get a grip on what is happening in the world because football is pretty much irrelevant right now.


----------



## Beezerk (May 2, 2020)

Devils advocate.
Football comes back, it's inevitable lives will be lost due to it as I cannot see how no one will get infected if it does.
Is is right that a game of football should take precedent over saving lives?


----------



## AmandaJR (May 2, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Devils advocate.
Football comes back, it's inevitable lives will be lost due to it as I cannot see how no one will get infected if it does.
Is is right that a game of football should take precedent over saving lives?
		
Click to expand...

So what's your ulterior motive for making such a sensible statement?

Dammit - said I was out...off to put Phil on ignore (sorry Phil) then I won't see this thread and be tempted to open it!!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 2, 2020)

Traminator said:



			An "ignore thread" function would be good.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair that is fully within your control. It just takes willpower. 

Fight the temptation of the ring 😁


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 2, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Devils advocate.
Football comes back, it's inevitable lives will be lost due to it as I cannot see how no one will get infected if it does.
Is is right that a game of football should take precedent over saving lives?
		
Click to expand...

NO.


----------



## Beezerk (May 2, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			So what's your ulterior motive for making such a sensible statement?
		
Click to expand...



No motive, I was just thinking about it last night how football appears to be above the law in a way.


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 2, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Devils advocate.
Football comes back, it's inevitable lives will be lost due to it as I cannot see how no one will get infected if it does.
Is is right that a game of football should take precedent over saving lives?
		
Click to expand...

If you change the word football to Golf that makes it uncomfortable for me.
With all the golfers in the world I can’t see nobody passing it on to someone.
The sports are totally different contact wise .
But one life is to many.????
Until SD is over football is a no for me . But Golf ?


----------



## AmandaJR (May 2, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			If you change the word football to *Golf that makes it uncomfortable for me.*
With all the golfers in the world I can’t see nobody passing it on to someone.
The sports are totally different contact wise .
But one life is to many.????
Until SD is over football is a no for me . But Golf ?
		
Click to expand...

Me too. Golf involves way too much travel and then would a caddy really be able to SD? There's a time and a place for professional sport and it's not now.

I've flounced and not followed through


----------



## rudebhoy (May 2, 2020)

Rumours flying around of a June 8th restart with all games to be played at the FAs St George's Park complex.


----------



## Beezerk (May 2, 2020)

rudebhoy said:



			Rumours flying around of a June 8th restart with all games to be played at the FAs St George's Park complex.
		
Click to expand...

Blimey, didn't see that coming.


----------



## Imurg (May 2, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1256546005597802498


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (May 2, 2020)

As the Newcastle buy out gets closer....




__ https://www.facebook.com/118003286275504/posts/262906705118494


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 2, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Are you for real? Social distancing is 2m and easily achieved on a golf course. Hardly a comparison to a professional football match.

1000s have died and are dying and a guy who is very professional, gets on with his job, doesn't get involved with the press makes a statment rightly expressing concern and you think it's based upon league positions. Beggars belief. He has a team mate in David Silva whose child has had serious health issues...that's just what we know about. But no...according to you his statement is because he wants...well what exactly?? Simply for care to be taken and not an obscene rush to play football again.

I'm out. Get a grip on what is happening in the world because football is pretty much irrelevant right now.
		
Click to expand...

Do I have to explain 20 times, that I'm in no rush to get it started, but am of an opinion that it should be finished???? Why do null and voiders keep peddling this crap?

The point was that we are all willing to take risks in life, whether large or small and I (probably like you) will get on the course as soon as possible. If footballers dont want to thats a personal choice, but some will be more than happy to still pick up 87.5%, if not all of their more than OBSCENE wages.


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 2, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Do I have to explain 20 times, that I'm in no rush to get it started, but am of an opinion that it should be finished???? Why do null and voiders keep peddling this crap?

The point was that we are all willing to take risks in life, whether large or small and I (probably like you) will get on the course as soon as possible. If footballers dont want to thats a personal choice, but some will be more than happy to still pick up 87.5%, if not all of their more than OBSCENE wages.
		
Click to expand...

No you made a stupid comparison & now you’re throwing a strop.

If Amanda goes to play in a 2 ball she can easily stay 3m away from her playing partner.


----------



## Pathetic Shark (May 3, 2020)

And now it starts - Brighton want no part of a neutral venue event as they have five of their final nine games at home, four against "top" teams and want that advantage as other teams have already had it.  Any excuse possible is going to be dragged out.


----------



## Kellfire (May 3, 2020)

Pathetic Shark said:



			And now it starts - Brighton want no part of a neutral venue event as they have five of their final nine games at home, four against "top" teams and want that advantage as other teams have already had it.  Any excuse possible is going to be dragged out.
		
Click to expand...

Can understand their thinking though.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 3, 2020)

Do they all have to agree or are the PL rules a 2/3 majority?


----------



## Imurg (May 3, 2020)

West Ham not convinced by it either..


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 3, 2020)

Traminator said:



			An "ignore thread" function would be good.
		
Click to expand...

Okay, I'm being tested now. Crazyface has started a why is golf in decline thread and it has gone quickly into a dress code issue. I'll confess, it's my thread weakness but after advising you about willpower I have no option but to ignore it 🙀. 

I may shortly be emailing the mods to request an ignore thread option though 😂. Perhaps if a few request it.......................🤔


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 3, 2020)

Imurg said:



			West Ham not convinced by it either..
		
Click to expand...

A pattern starting to emerge from the clubs in the relegation area, methinks.

Brighton have a point, but there is more chance that some of their fans (like all the clubs) could congregate outside their own ground, whereas if they have to play their games at say Villa park, would be less of a case, if at all. The same for everyone else. 

There are going to have to be some compromises made by all clubs and players nothing is going to be perfect, but to uphold sporting integrity its going to have to be the case. The alternative is going to have far worse consequences and arguments - average points per game, current positions being used, no relegation/promotion etc. 

We already have some imperfections built in such as away goals, VAR, seedings in CL etc.


----------



## Pathetic Shark (May 3, 2020)

West Ham and Brighton - the first two teams to complain ..... and where are they in the Premier League standings?  Just above the relegation zone.   Anyone think they would be in favour of scrapping the entire season?  ;-)


----------



## Pathetic Shark (May 3, 2020)

Really good point came up in baseball this week which has been talking about all teams in neutral venues and playing half a season like that -  several of the top players immediately said they are not going to spend that length of time away from their families.   Shot that idea down really quickly.

Another one came up in the NHL about playing the final 12-14 games of the regular season - several teams are totally out of playoff contention and their players stated that why should they put their health at risk for games that were meaningless to them.

Both things to consider in all sports as authorities try to find a way round a potentially insurmountable problem.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 3, 2020)

Playing on neutral grounds is  stupid idea. whenever the competition is to recommence it needs to be to the exact same circumstances as the previous 28/29 games was played in.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 3, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do they all have to agree or are the PL rules a 2/3 majority?
		
Click to expand...

Usually 14 is the magic number.


----------



## Fade and Die (May 3, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do they all have to agree or are the PL rules a 2/3 majority?
		
Click to expand...


And what if one team or some of the players refuse, what then? Sanctions? Relegation?


----------



## Imurg (May 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Playing on neutral grounds is  stupid idea. whenever the competition is to recommence it needs to be to the exact same circumstances as the previous 28/29 games was played in.
		
Click to expand...

And, effectively,  changing the rules part way through a season surely has to deal a blow to the notion of preserving the integrity of the game..?


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Playing on neutral grounds is  stupid idea. whenever the competition is to recommence it needs to be to the exact same circumstances as the previous 28/29 games was played in.
		
Click to expand...

That would be after SD is stopped as all those games had fans .
That’s the correct way imo.
When that will be is anyone’s guess though.


----------



## Junior (May 3, 2020)

Worst case scenario, dont play any footy and restart the season next year where it stopped this year. 

European competitions - just take the league positions as is.

Player contracts will just have to be sorted and if a player leaves so be it.  

The players instead of having a year off should all go picking fruit in east Anglia.   Sorted.


----------



## Fade and Die (May 3, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			That would be after SD is stopped as all those games had fans .
That’s the correct way imo.
When that will be is anyone’s guess though.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly....Said it before - probably 16 or so players jostling together at corner kicks yet only 6 allowed at a funeral... Something wrong with society if we let this happen.


----------



## fundy (May 3, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			And what if one team or some of the players refuse, what then? Sanctions? Relegation?
		
Click to expand...


court room, which is where this will end up one way or another


----------



## Imurg (May 3, 2020)

fundy said:



			court room, which is where this will end up one way or another
		
Click to expand...

Wish I'd studied Law all those years ago....


----------



## fundy (May 3, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Wish I'd studied Law all those years ago....

Click to expand...

I did, but only contract law and damned if i can remember any of it lol


----------



## Stuart_C (May 3, 2020)

Imurg said:



			And, effectively,  changing the rules part way through a season surely has to deal a blow to the notion of preserving the integrity of the game..?
		
Click to expand...

Yes its a massive blow. It shouldn’t be allowed to happen.


----------



## Old Skier (May 3, 2020)

Only the PL and football trying to find ways to still make money IMO. Stop league now, results stand as they are, no ups no downs. Losers and gainers, strange times, live with it.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 3, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			That would be after SD is stopped as all those games had fans .
That’s the correct way imo.
When that will be is anyone’s guess though.
		
Click to expand...

Fair point, but if it means getting it restarted without fans  then that’s a compromise we have to accept. I believe playing behind closed doors would benefit the  away side.

I agree. restart the game from where we left off only when it’s safe to do so.

correct. That’s why voiding the season is wrong. People want it voiding so we can start a fresh in August, right now that’s unlikely to happen. So what’s the point in voiding if there’s no guarantee next season starting on time?


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Fair point, but if it means getting it restarted without fans  then that’s a compromise we have to accept. I believe playing behind closed doors would benefit the  away side.

I agree. restart the game from where we left off only when it’s safe to do so.

correct. That’s why voiding the season is wrong. People want it voiding so we can start a fresh in August, right now that’s unlikely to happen. So what’s the point in voiding if there’s no guarantee next season starting on time?
		
Click to expand...

Yes agree.
It must be easier to reschedule a season that hasn’t started than one nearly finished.
Asking players to play while not letting fans in because of SD is just not on.
Covid can damage your lungs and organs ,imagine if a top athlete gets it , could be his career over.
Just start again when safe , and sort next season when we start playing again.


----------



## Fade and Die (May 3, 2020)

All this talk of neutral venues proves the whole point of the English Pl structure is for the TV Companies and their revenues...it is a sport for people and if people cant go then what is the point?


----------



## Stuart_C (May 3, 2020)

Old Skier said:



*Only the PL and football trying to find ways to still make money IMO.* Stop league now, results stand as they are, no ups no downs. Losers and gainers, strange times, live with it.
		
Click to expand...

They won’t be making any money without fans If it’s restarted, if anything they’ll be losing. Using us an example,  I’ll be entitled to a refund on my ST for games lost. Mine averages about £49 per game so £49 pg x 4 games missed = £196 x by 30,000 ST holders =£5.9m.

Then there’s 23,000 general admission seats at say an average of  £55 x4 games x 23000 = £5m. That’s almost  £11m In refunds they’ll need to make if football goes ahead. Then there’s the hospitality packages which range between £350-£1200 per ticket get game.


----------



## fundy (May 3, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			All this talk of neutral venues proves the whole point of the English Pl structure is for the TV Companies and their revenues...it is a sport for people and if people cant go then what is the point?
		
Click to expand...


There argument will be if they can show every game live on tv then thats better than no football at all. Sadly match going fans long stopped being important to the powers that be


----------



## Stuart_C (May 3, 2020)

fundy said:



			There argument will be if they can show every game live on tv then thats better than no football at all. Sadly match going fans long stopped being important to the powers that be
		
Click to expand...

buy as many shares as you can in sofolgy or DFS, the sale of armchairs will be worse than toilet roll😁


----------



## Stuart_C (May 3, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes agree.
It must be easier to reschedule a season that hasn’t started than one nearly finished.
Asking players to play while not letting fans in because of SD is just not on.
Covid can damage your lungs and organs ,imagine if a top athlete gets it , could be his career over.
Just start again when safe , and sort next season when we start playing again.
		
Click to expand...

Hypothetically what if WHO and our medical experts whom the government are taking advice from say it’s safe for sport to recommence without fans, what happens then?


----------



## fundy (May 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Hypothetically what if WHO and our medical experts whom the government are taking advice from say it’s safe for sport to recommence without fans, what happens then?
		
Click to expand...


you'll find out in about 6 weeks time


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Hypothetically what if WHO and our medical experts whom the government are taking advice from say it’s safe for sport to recommence without fans, what happens then?
		
Click to expand...

It was drummed into me that “you are your own safety officer”
As a crane driver nobody could tell me something was safe to do.
My lads had the final say in lifting anything ,the driver had the final say.
I would imagine footballers would have the same rights over their safety.
But it will be interesting to see what happens.
As there will be some who don’t want to play.


----------



## Papas1982 (May 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			They won’t be making any money without fans If it’s restarted, if anything they’ll be losing. Using us an example,  I’ll be entitled to a refund on my ST for games lost. Mine averages about £49 per game so £49 pg x 4 games missed = £196 x by 30,000 ST holders =£5.9m.

Then there’s 23,000 general admission seats at say an average of  £55 x4 games x 23000 = £5m. That’s almost  £11m In refunds they’ll need to make if football goes ahead. Then there’s the hospitality packages which range between £350-£1200 per ticket get game.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree with the numbers mate, but they'll still better off  behind closed doors than cancelled season. 

Obv there will be differences with each clubs attendances prices. Lets for arguments sake say every team charges £60 a ticket and has 60000 fans ever week. That's 68.4m I belive. The revenue from that is TV money is worth I belive £80m basic. So losing TV money is still the bigger hit as I'm sure sky would say no season fulfilled. No payment at all.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 3, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			And what if one team or some of the players refuse, what then? Sanctions? Relegation?
		
Click to expand...

If you sign up to a league or organisation than you abide by the rules and structure. If those rules say it needs 14 votes to pass then you accept it or accept the consequences. I don't know the PL rule book but the ultimate sanction is demotion from the league. Let's face it, there will be no shortage of clubs willing to take the place of a team that refuses to accept a vote that is passed.


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 3, 2020)

I still don’t think you can ask a footballer to play while not letting the fans in.
If it’s not safe to let fans attend because of SD .
How could you ask never mind force a player to play.
It’s a contact sport and can’t be played under SD imo.


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 3, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If you sign up to a league or organisation than you abide by the rules and structure. If those rules say it needs 14 votes to pass then you accept it or accept the consequences. I don't know the PL rule book but the ultimate sanction is demotion from the league. Let's face it, there will be no shortage of clubs willing to take the place of a team that refuses to accept a vote that is passed.
		
Click to expand...

The clubs might ok playing but half the players may say no.
The referees and Lino might say no what then.
Think the courts are going to be busy.


----------



## Old Skier (May 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			They won’t be making any money without fans If it’s restarted, if anything they’ll be losing. Using us an example,  I’ll be entitled to a refund on my ST for games lost. Mine averages about £49 per game so £49 pg x 4 games missed = £196 x by 30,000 ST holders =£5.9m.

Then there’s 23,000 general admission seats at say an average of  £55 x4 games x 23000 = £5m. That’s almost  £11m In refunds they’ll need to make if football goes ahead. Then there’s the hospitality packages which range between £350-£1200 per ticket get game.
		
Click to expand...

The only reason I put make money is it will allow Sky and others to start generating income otherwise the money payed by them to the leagues will be significantly reduced in the future.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 3, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Totally agree with the numbers mate, but they'll still better off  behind closed doors than cancelled season.

Obv there will be differences with each clubs attendances prices. Lets for arguments sake say every team charges £60 a ticket and has 60000 fans ever week. That's 68.4m I belive. The revenue from that is TV money is worth I belive £80m basic. So losing TV money is still the bigger hit as I'm sure sky would say no season fulfilled. No payment at all.
		
Click to expand...

Better off? Very much doubt it. Old Skier was suggesting they're putting money before all else, I've given a fair example of how theyll be losing money. Obviously clubs will differ but I think percentage wise theyll all suffer the same loss. 

Sky have already said they wont be asking for any refunds so teams wont lose TV money, just more games next season.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 3, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			The only reason I put make money is it will allow Sky and others to start generating income otherwise the money payed by them to the leagues will be significantly reduced in the future.
		
Click to expand...

Sky might want to protect their investment but clubs will lose money either way if its void or behind closed doors. 

No monies will be reduced until the next round of TV rights contract renewal, sky have confirmed this. They just want more games next season what they've lost this season.


----------



## Papas1982 (May 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Better off? Very much doubt it. Old Skier was suggesting they're putting money before all else, I've given a fair example of how theyll be losing money. Obviously clubs will differ but I think percentage wise theyll all suffer the same loss.

*Sky have already said they wont be asking for any refunds so teams wont lose TV money, just more games next season*.
		
Click to expand...

Hadn’t see that tbh. I was simply looking from a business POV. without the above knowledge. Tv money minus refunds, better than no tv money At all. 
With sky honouring money, that’s obv not the case.


----------



## Old Skier (May 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Better off? Very much doubt it. Old Skier was suggesting they're putting money before all else, I've given a fair example of how theyll be losing money. Obviously clubs will differ but I think percentage wise theyll all suffer the same loss.

Sky have already said they wont be asking for any refunds so teams wont lose TV money, just more games next season.
		
Click to expand...

You also suggest there might not be a next season. Anyway as a Wrexham supporter I was more than relieved when they cancelled there league


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 3, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			The clubs might ok playing but half the players may say no.
The referees and Lino might say no what then.
Think the courts are going to be busy.
		
Click to expand...

I think bringing the pfa on board will be critical.  Same for the refs. If they can be shown a way of doing this safely then the majority will come on board. There may be a few that refuse but if the vast majority agree then it will go ahead. Plenty of players in a squad, plenty will be happy to step up.


----------



## rudebhoy (May 3, 2020)

It's a crazy idea. We keep hearing that social distancing is going to be with us for months, yet we are contemplating having full contact sport. So, do all the players and staff go into a lockdown situation at St George's for weeks? Not seeing their families for all that time? We know how selfish and irresponsible footballers can be, Jack Grealish and Kyle Walker are great examples. Some will break the lockdown, no doubt about it.

And then there is the fans. How many will want to go and watch the match on tv with their mates, particularly if it's the game where you could will the league? Concerns have already been raised about fans congregating at Anfield the night they clinch it.

They have estimated 60k tests will be needed as they are planning on testing all the players on a daily basis. Is that really the best use of a vital resource?

And from a neutral's point of view, have you ever tried watching a closed doors game on tv? The total lack of atmosphere kills it as a spectacle.


----------



## Orikoru (May 3, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Only the PL and football trying to find ways to still make money IMO. Stop league now, results stand as they are, no ups no downs. Losers and gainers, strange times, live with it.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but comments like this are total nonsense. As if clubs who stand to lose billions of pounds based on an off the cuff arbitrary ruling like that are just going to accept it. It would be total carnage.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 3, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Hadn’t see that tbh. I was simply looking from a business POV. without the above knowledge. Tv money minus refunds, better than no tv money At all.
With sky honouring money, that’s obv not the case.
		
Click to expand...

yeah initially PL said they faced £720m bill if football is voided. Sky are obviously already in balls deep with football and dont want to lose out so they said they’d defer any payments for more games next season.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 3, 2020)

Old Skier said:



*You also suggest there might not be a next season.* Anyway as a Wrexham supporter I was more than relieved when they cancelled there league 

Click to expand...

There’s a real possibility of no football being played til next year, that must be acknowledged before making decisions on this season.
I guess the reason Wrexham’s league was cancelled was down to clubs not being in a financial position to pay players for an indefinite period unlike the rest of the leagues. Obvuiosly the EFL clubs have all had a payment from the EFL.


----------



## pauljames87 (May 3, 2020)

Saw the premier League is looking at the entire of next season behind closed doors

Reducing transfers in summer as money will be tighter 

Fair enough I guess

I'd be happy so long as we sign the midfielder soucek who we have to buy if we stay up. Yes we are rubbish but to keep rice another season and keep what we have with players coming back from loans that would see us through next season

When this season resumes just got to adjust to what happens

I think we will see title race etc finished

But relegation will be binned. Promotion only for the year with bigger leagues for next year say 2 up and then 5 down next year to make up for it.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 3, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Saw the premier League is looking at the entire of next season behind closed doors

Reducing transfers in summer as money will be tighter

Fair enough I guess

I'd be happy so long as we sign the midfielder soucek who we have to buy if we stay up. Yes we are rubbish but to keep rice another season and keep what we have with players coming back from loans that would see us through next season

When this season resumes just got to adjust to what happens

I think we will see title race etc finished

*But relegation will be binned. Promotion only for the year with bigger leagues for next year say 2 up and then 5 down next year to make up for it*.
		
Click to expand...

That cannot happens. It will make a complete mockery of the game.

Think about it logically now, you’re suggesting 5 teams going down next season. 

if they agree to that they will be signing their own death warrant for next season. by that I mean theres teams who think there’s 3worse teams off than us in a normal league season, but they are in the next five.

 With limited transfers and lack of squad improvements  some of those teams down the bottom now will be dragged in even further. 

lets use Bournemouth for example, they been decimated by injuries this season, if they stay up and with a full squad they’re not in the worst 3 teams, but with a couple of injuries they’re comfortably in the worst 5 teams. It only takes West Brom or Leeds to have a season like Sheffield United and it puts another proven PL side relegated.

Does that make any sense?.


----------



## pauljames87 (May 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			That cannot happens. It will make a complete mockery of the game.

Think about it logically now, you’re suggesting 5 teams going down next season.

if they agree to that they will be signing their own death warrant for next season. by that I mean theres teams who think there’s 3worse teams off than us in a normal league season, but they are in the next five.

With limited transfers and lack of squad improvements  some of those teams down the bottom now will be dragged in even further.

lets use Bournemouth for example, they been decimated by injuries this season, if they stay up and with a full squad they’re not in the worst 3 teams, but with a couple of injuries they’re comfortably in the worst 5 teams. It only takes West Brom or Leeds to have a season like Sheffield United and it puts another proven PL side relegated.

Does that make any sense?.
		
Click to expand...

I think we are long past making a mockery of the game 

We are looking to restart a season whilst a global pandemic is still affecting us

We are looking at games behind closed doors 

We are prepared to change everything because football is at the bidding of skys TV money 

Think mockery went out the window ages ago


----------



## Stuart_C (May 4, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			I think we are long past making a mockery of the game

We are looking to restart a season whilst a global pandemic is still affecting us

We are looking at games behind closed doors

We are prepared to change everything because football is at the bidding of skys TV money

Think mockery went out the window ages ago
		
Click to expand...

All the changes and wrongs about PL that have gone on before, whether its 8pm ko’s boxing night or 5:30pm ko ‘son a New Year’s Eve,VAR etc the integrity on the field has always been protected. It’s always been a fair competition.

There’s no need to do anything other than reconvene at the earliest opportunity when it’s safe to do so and play week 29’s games. It’s simple as that.


----------



## fundy (May 4, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			All the changes and wrongs about PL that have gone on before, whether its 8pm ko’s boxing night or 5:30pm ko ‘son a New Year’s Eve,VAR etc the integrity on the field has always been protected. It’s always been a fair competition.

There’s no need to do anything other than reconvene at the earliest opportunity when it’s safe to do so and play week 29’s games. It’s simple as that.
		
Click to expand...


not sure the bottom 6 see it that way, they see a boardroom/courtroom way out of half of them being relegated and staying on the gravy train for another year. if youre expecting integrity from the likes of West Hams boardroom could be in for a long wait


----------



## Stuart_C (May 4, 2020)

fundy said:



			not sure the bottom 6 see it that way, they see a boardroom/courtroom way out of half of them being relegated and staying on the gravy train for another year. if youre expecting integrity from the likes of West Hams boardroom could be in for a long wait
		
Click to expand...

of course they do. Integrity when it suits them.


----------



## pauljames87 (May 4, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			All the changes and wrongs about PL that have gone on before, whether its 8pm ko’s boxing night or 5:30pm ko ‘son a New Year’s Eve,VAR etc the integrity on the field has always been protected. It’s always been a fair competition.

There’s no need to do anything other than reconvene at the earliest opportunity when it’s safe to do so and play week 29’s games. It’s simple as that.
		
Click to expand...

Respectfully disagree

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...verpool-cost-me-top-flight-place-6376597.html

I mean I always thought it was tevez fault they went down

But again Liverpool did put a weak team out there for the premier League field was weakened 

Same at man United when they smashed the league and won so early .. could then weaken the team allowing for any relegation scrappers to have more of a chance 

Football has zero integrity


----------



## Stuart_C (May 4, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Respectfully disagree

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...verpool-cost-me-top-flight-place-6376597.html

I mean I always thought it was tevez fault they went down

But again Liverpool did put a weak team out there for the premier League field was weakened

Same at man United when they smashed the league and won so early .. could then weaken the team allowing for any relegation scrappers to have more of a chance

Football has zero integrity
		
Click to expand...

Typical sour grapes.

Warnock had 38 games to stay up, like every other manager/team who have gone down before and after them.

Liverpool played fulham away 3days after  a very important semi final 2nd leg against Chelsea. We were comfortably in the top4 and used squad players who had all played games that season. To claim they’ve got no integrity is stupid, it’s a squad game afterall.

We lost 1-0 and went onto to lose to AC but it was still the right decision. Imagine losing important players in a dead rubber game.

Just found the line up from that day, it was hardly the kids....

Reina, Arbeloa, Paletta, Hyypia, Insua (Finnan 75), Pennant (El Zhar 65), Alonso, Sissoko, Gonzalez (Kewell 77), Fowler, Bellamy.


----------



## pauljames87 (May 4, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Typical sour grapes.

Warnock had 38 games to stay up, like every other manager/team who have gone down before and after them.

Liverpool played fulham away 3days after  a very important semi final 2nd leg against Chelsea. We were comfortably in the top4 and used squad players who had all played games that season. To claim they’ve got no integrity is stupid, it’s a squad game afterall.

We lost 1-0 and went onto to lose to AC but it was still the right decision. Imagine losing important players in a dead rubber game.
		
Click to expand...

I remember at the time the premier League were threatening Liverpool with action if they didn't field a strong team due to some rule about fielding your best available 11 at all times or something 

Came to nothing in the end


----------



## Stuart_C (May 4, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			I remember at the time the premier League were threatening Liverpool with action if they didn't field a strong team due to some rule about fielding your best available 11 at all times or something

Came to nothing in the end
		
Click to expand...

You‘ve a better memory than me because I can’t remember it. There was a team that was fined iirc for making 10 changes, it may have been hull or someone I can’t think right now but they were the only one.

That game you linked to, Micheal brown head butted Xabi Alonso that game and got away with it.


----------



## pauljames87 (May 4, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			You‘ve a better memory than me because I can’t remember it. There was a team that was fined iirc for making 10 changes, it may have been hull or someone I can’t think right now but they were the only one.

That game you linked to, Micheal brown head butted Xabi Alonso that game and got away with it.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2011/may/19/football-premier-league-weakened-teams

Found this one about it, was a rule. Very weird rule


----------



## Slime (May 4, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



*There’s a real possibility of no football being played til next year,* that must be acknowledged before making decisions on this season.
I guess the reason Wrexham’s league was cancelled was down to clubs not being in a financial position to pay players for an indefinite period unlike the rest of the leagues. Obvuiosly the EFL clubs have all had a payment from the EFL.
		
Click to expand...

If that's the case there'd be insufficient time to complete a season.
Ideal time to finish this season though!
Oh, the thoughts of two teams up and no relegation just sounds ridiculous to me.


----------



## Orikoru (May 4, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Saw the premier League is looking at the entire of next season behind closed doors
		
Click to expand...

That really wouldn't be fair as it gives a massive advantage to City and Arsenal, who are used to playing in front of no fans.


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 4, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			You‘ve a better memory than me because I can’t remember it. There was a team that was fined iirc for making 10 changes, it may have been hull or someone I can’t think right now but they were the only one.

That game you linked to, Micheal brown head butted Xabi Alonso that game and got away with it.
		
Click to expand...

Wasnt this the season when west ham had Tevez and Mascherano being used against the rules. I think in the end this was Sheffield United's bigger beef with West Ham.


----------



## Orikoru (May 4, 2020)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/w/wolverhampton_wanderers/8521603.stm 

It was ten years ago. I can't remember if this was before or after the clubs had to name a 25-man squad, but if you do have to name a squad you should obviously be able to name whichever players you want from that squad. Even then I think it was nonsense that Wolves got fined, because the big teams were already using rotation systems, it's just that they could afford better players to come in as the replacements.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 4, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Wasnt this the season when west ham had Tevez and Mascherano being used against the rules. I think in the end this was Sheffield United's bigger beef with West Ham.
		
Click to expand...

Warnock having beef with West ham doesn’t create headlines, Warnock having beef with a foreign Liverpool manager does.

The way he goes on about it you’d think we played 11 kids that day And the result wasnt a true reflection of the game iirc.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			If that's the case there'd be insufficient time to complete a season.
*Ideal time to finish this season though!*
Oh, the thoughts of two teams up and no relegation just sounds ridiculous to me.
		
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 4, 2020)

La Liga are talking about restarting in June. After everything Spain has been through with this, if they can do it..................


----------



## davemc1 (May 4, 2020)

Loris Karius terminates his contract and is heading back to LFC. 


Yeah let’s just void the bleeding thing 🙁


----------



## Papas1982 (May 4, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			La Liga are talking about restarting in June. After everything Spain has been through with this, if they can do it..................
		
Click to expand...

Officially a smaller death Tool there than here now. 
Their rate of decrease has been far more significant than ours too.


----------



## Beezerk (May 4, 2020)

So I've read Liverpool FC want the men's league to continue as they can win the title.
The same Liverpool FC also want to women's league cancelling due to health and safety reasons plus their team is bottom of the league and probably relegated 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Imurg (May 4, 2020)

Another 10 positive tests in Germany's  top 2 divisions........its not going well......


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 4, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			So I've read Liverpool FC want the men's league to continue as they can win the title.
The same Liverpool FC also want to women's league cancelling due to health and safety reasons plus their team is bottom of the league and probably relegated 🤣🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Nothing surprises me in football.


----------



## ger147 (May 6, 2020)

Latest is the neutral venues proposal could be a key requirement to play the remainng games...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52558225


----------



## larmen (May 6, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Another 10 positive tests in Germany's  top 2 divisions........its not going well......
		
Click to expand...

German league to start in the 15th or 22nd of May.

Well, that is what has been decided now, but I still don’t believe they will okay.


----------



## i*windows (May 6, 2020)

larmen said:



			German league to start in the 15th or 22nd of May.

Well, that is what has been decided now, but I still don’t believe they will okay.
		
Click to expand...

this isnt 100% correct, no team sports are currently allowed in Germany, and while the  Bundesliga are looking to return it still hasnt been approved, although reports coming out of Berlin seem to think that the games will be played behind locked doors towards the end of May. It is unlikely this will be before the 18th of May when general restrictions for restaurants and beer gardens are lifted


----------



## rudebhoy (May 6, 2020)

i*windows said:



			this isnt 100% correct, no team sports are currently allowed in Germany, and while the  Bundesliga are looking to return it still hasnt been approved, although reports coming out of Berlin seem to think that the games will be played behind locked doors towards the end of May. It is unlikely this will be before the 18th of May when general restrictions for restaurants and beer gardens are lifted
		
Click to expand...


Merkel just announced Bundesliga games can recommence. Date to be agreed tomorrow, May 15 or 21 being touted.


----------



## larmen (May 6, 2020)

i*windows said:



			this isnt 100% correct, no team sports are currently allowed in Germany, and while the  Bundesliga are looking to return it still hasnt been approved, although reports coming out of Berlin seem to think that the games will be played behind locked doors towards the end of May. It is unlikely this will be before the 18th of May when general restrictions for restaurants and beer gardens are lifted
		
Click to expand...

And yet they start on the 15th as I said above.

I still think something will stop it, but the 15th has been announced by the DFL


----------



## i*windows (May 6, 2020)

larmen said:



			And yet they start on the 15th as I said above.

I still think something will stop it, but the 15th has been announced by the DFL
		
Click to expand...

yep the 15th has just been announced, just heard it on the news, which was different from the lunchtime predictions


----------



## larmen (May 6, 2020)

Not from the ones in the German news I read and watch.


----------



## i*windows (May 6, 2020)

larmen said:



			Not from the ones in the German news I read and watch.
		
Click to expand...

I only read the local news here in Munich and listen Bayern 3 and heard it on the 9 o clock news


----------



## i*windows (May 6, 2020)

Just re-read the news and as I mentioned earlier it's mid may, which would fall into line with the 18th, when other restrictions are relaxed. - but not really relevat to the premier league :-#


----------



## fundy (May 6, 2020)

looks like time to start studying German and Turkish form lines 

were getting upgraded Stu lol


----------



## Stuart_C (May 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			looks like time to start studying German and Turkish form lines 

were getting upgraded Stu lol
		
Click to expand...

😂😂 just as I’ve got a grip on the Belarussian reserve premier league 😆


----------



## ColchesterFC (May 8, 2020)

Teams will be allowed up to 5 substitutes when matches finally restart.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52592431 

There's also the option to stop using VAR. If maintaining sporting integrity is so important how can you play 3/4 of the season with one set of rules and then change the rules for the last 1/4 of the season?


----------



## Stuart_C (May 8, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Teams will be allowed up to 5 substitutes when matches finally restart.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52592431

There's also the option to stop using VAR. If maintaining sporting integrity is so important how can you play 3/4 of the season with one set of rules and then change the rules for the last 1/4 of the season?
		
Click to expand...

No changes should be made to the rules of the game. Playing behind closed doors be the only change to the game.


----------



## ColchesterFC (May 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			No changes should be made to the rules of the game. Playing behind closed doors be the only change to the game.
		
Click to expand...

I totally agree. The season should be finished, but not until it is safe to do so, with the rules that have been used so far continuing to be used, with behind closed door games the only concession to be made. If that means we can't start until August/September then that is what should be done. Move the 20/21 season to Jan to Oct/Nov with a mid season break for the Euros. Move the 21/22 season also to Jan to Sept/Oct to finish in time for the World Cup in Qatar. After that do whatever is needed to get back to a "regular" season from then on.


Alternatively the "fairest" thing to do would be to announce this season as null and void and start the 20/21 season as planned in August/September.



NB. It is possible that I meant "funniest" rather than "fairest" in that sentence - my brother is a Liverpool fan and the abuse I'd be able to give him if this season isn't finished would be priceless.


----------



## 4LEX (May 8, 2020)

Kyle Walker......a new low has been reached today. Holds a sex party, gets media attention, blames the media for the attention it causes, breaks more guildelines by seeing family and tries to play the mental health card. It's your own fault you melt. As an England fan I hope this disgusting excuse for a human never wears our shirt again. Everyone is struggling and missing their family, if we all behaved like that we'd be in lockdown for a year.

Honestly, his cringeworthy Iphone drafted statement (that probably took a week to spellcheck) was possibly the most self pitying text ever composed.  Entitled, arrogant, ignorant.....Man City should PPE him up and send him to a hospital for a week or to the makeshift morgue. He's part of the reason why football won't return and why they'll be dozens more positive tests


----------



## Stuart_C (May 8, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Kyle Walker......a new low has been reached today. Holds a sex party, gets media attention, blames the media for the attention it causes, breaks more guildelines by seeing family and tries to play the mental health card. It's your own fault you melt. *As an England fan I hope this disgusting excuse for a human never wears our shirt again.* Everyone is struggling and missing their family, if we all behaved like that we'd be in lockdown for a year.

Honestly, his cringeworthy Iphone drafted statement (that probably took a week to spellcheck) was possibly the most self pitying text ever composed.  Entitled, arrogant, ignorant.....Man City should PPE him up and send him to a hospital for a week or to the makeshift morgue. He's part of the reason why football won't return and why they'll be dozens more positive tests 

Click to expand...

Really? Bit of an overreaction imo.


----------



## Slime (May 9, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Kyle Walker......a new low has been reached today. Holds a sex party, gets media attention, blames the media for the attention it causes, breaks more guildelines by seeing family and tries to play the mental health card. It's your own fault you melt. As an England fan I hope this disgusting excuse for a human never wears our shirt again. Everyone is struggling and missing their family, if we all behaved like that we'd be in lockdown for a year.

Honestly, his cringeworthy Iphone drafted statement (that probably took a week to spellcheck) was possibly the most self pitying text ever composed.  Entitled, arrogant, ignorant.....*Man City should PPE him up and send him to a hospital for a week or to the makeshift morgue*. He's part of the reason why football won't return and why they'll be dozens more positive tests 

Click to expand...


Utterly ridiculous, there wouldn't be room for any doctors or nurses if they did that with everyone who broke the lockdown rules.
Or is it one rule for footballers and another rule for everyone else?


----------



## larmen (May 9, 2020)

In Germany, due to open in a weeks time, a whole team (Dresden) is now in lockdown again. They will miss the 1st game, but what I think is even worse, they can't actually do any training until the 2nd game either. I don't think they can/should go ahead. But I am not the one making millions out of it.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (May 9, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			No changes should be made to the rules of the game. Playing behind closed doors be the only change to the game.
		
Click to expand...

I agree. There have been so many games decided by close VAR decisions already this season and so it ruins any integrity of the league to suddenly do away with it. Same with suddenlyl introducing 5 subs


----------



## Fish (May 10, 2020)

Third Brighton player tests positive!

https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...positive-chief-executive-paul-barber-confirms


----------



## Beezerk (May 10, 2020)

Fish said:



			Third Brighton player tests positive!

https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...positive-chief-executive-paul-barber-confirms

Click to expand...

It got touched upon earlier, one player for lets say Liverpool tests positive two weeks into the season restart, what then? Are they forced to play a reserve team for the remaining fixtures, is the whole club on lockdown again?
I really can't see how restarting the season is going to work.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 10, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			It got touched upon earlier, one player for lets say Liverpool tests positive two weeks into the season restart, what then? Are they forced to play a reserve team for the remaining fixtures, is the whole club on lockdown again?
I really can't see how restarting the season is going to work.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly why it’s too early to restart the season. 

Looking at the current sets of data, the infection isn’t going away. 

Cancel, null and void this season and start the new season in September. What happens if players test Positive after 4 games? Cancel that season too?


----------



## pauljames87 (May 10, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			It got touched upon earlier, one player for lets say Liverpool tests positive two weeks into the season restart, what then? Are they forced to play a reserve team for the remaining fixtures, is the whole club on lockdown again?
I really can't see how restarting the season is going to work.
		
Click to expand...

Must say covid 19 has proper made me fall out of love with football 

The actions by the powers that be to impose deadlines or fines for not finishing or not restarting seasons is pathetic . 

Money money money


----------



## pauljames87 (May 10, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Exactly why it’s too early to restart the season. 

Looking at the current sets of data, the infection isn’t going away. 

Cancel, null and void this season and start the new season in September. What happens if players test Positive after 4 games? Cancel that season too?
		
Click to expand...

I'm going for the most far fetched example possible now 

Cancel next season now

Auto add one season to everyone's contract 

Finish this season by next summer starting it about the time it left off allowing players to retrain from January with friendly in Feb


----------



## Fish (May 10, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			It got touched upon earlier, one player for lets say Liverpool tests positive two weeks into the season restart, what then? Are they forced to play a reserve team for the remaining fixtures, is the whole club on lockdown again?
I really can't see how restarting the season is going to work.
		
Click to expand...

 Not only their own club, what about the players the infected player has come into contact with when playing?


----------



## Beezerk (May 10, 2020)

Fish said:



			Not only their own club, what about the players the infected player has come into contact with when playing?
		
Click to expand...

Yes, it would be virtually impossible to police. I'd be interested to see who is actually making the decision to play, is it the clubs, the PL or is it the tv companies who pump billions into the game putting pressure onto the PL?


----------



## Fish (May 10, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Yes, it would be virtually impossible to police. I'd be interested to see who is actually making the decision to play, is it the clubs, the PL or is it the tv companies who pump billions into the game putting pressure onto the PL?
		
Click to expand...

What ever decisions are made, as & when, they’ll be controversial.


----------



## fundy (May 10, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			I'm going for the most far fetched example possible now

Cancel next season now

Auto add one season to everyone's contract

Finish this season by next summer starting it about the time it left off allowing players to retrain from January with friendly in Feb
		
Click to expand...


seriously weve only one more year of Ozils wage, dont add another one!!!!!


----------



## GB72 (May 11, 2020)

Something I know very little about so have to ask, how is the decision reached about what happens next? Is it a vote by the premier League clubs and, if so, is it a simple majority etc. Only ask as none if the bottom clubs are going to vote for a system that sees them relegated. Opposition from a few clubs near the bottom to neutral venues may support that as, for some teams, actually playing the matches is the biggest risk to relegation whereas points per match, current position or abandonment sees them safe. None of the top end who could qualify for Europe are going to vote for anything that sees them not qualifying are going to vote for that system.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 11, 2020)

GB72 said:



			Something I know very little about so have to ask, how is the decision reached about what happens next? Is it a vote by the premier League clubs and, if so, is it a simple majority etc. Only ask as none if the bottom clubs are going to vote for a system that sees them relegated. Opposition from a few clubs near the bottom to neutral venues may support that as, for some teams, actually playing the matches is the biggest risk to relegation whereas points per match, current position or abandonment sees them safe. None of the top end who could qualify for Europe are going to vote for anything that sees them not qualifying are going to vote for that system.
		
Click to expand...

Everything that is proposed will be voted for. The magic number for anything to get through is  14.

I think neutral venues might have to  be a compromise to get the season finished.

Obviously clubs  will vote what's best for them, not what's morally right.


----------



## Kellfire (May 11, 2020)

What’s morally right is clearly anything possible to stop Liverpool winning the league...


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2020)

Boris said people can go back to work if safe SD is in place.
Football is work for the players .
So I think nothing will happen until SD is over.
What happens then is anybody’s guess.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 11, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Boris said people can go back to work if safe SD is in place.
Football is work for the players .
So I think nothing will happen until SD is over.
What happens then is anybody’s guess.
		
Click to expand...

Partly, do we not sit back and watch how it goes in Germany? They are the guinea pigs right now. I would be amazed if the PL are not in very close contact with the Bundesliga, the medical staff from clubs here and there talking with each other to look at the approaches.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 11, 2020)

UK government confirms top level sport can resume behind closed doors from June 1st 👏👏👏👏


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 11, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			UK government confirms top level sport can resume behind closed doors from June 1st 👏👏👏👏
		
Click to expand...

Does this mean I can cancel my RP Leipzig scarf and replica shirt? No need to order BT Sports? Phew.


----------



## Dan2501 (May 11, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			UK government confirms top level sport can resume behind closed doors from June 1st 👏👏👏👏
		
Click to expand...

Not exactly what they've said. 




			No professional sport, even behind closed doors, will be staged in England until 1 June at the earliest
		
Click to expand...

Which means it could easily be pushed back, and I think it likely will.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 11, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Not exactly what they've said. 



Which means it could easily be pushed back, and I think it likely will.
		
Click to expand...

That is exactly what sky sports was showing, I've just turned over to check and theyve changed it. 

Nevertheless it's getting closer🤞


----------



## GB72 (May 11, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Everything that is proposed will be voted for. The magic number for anything to get through is  14.

I think neutral venues might have to  be a compromise to get the season finished.

Obviously clubs  will vote what's best for them, not what's morally right.
		
Click to expand...

That is interesting and so a few clubs need to be against the motion. Neutral grounds makes by far the most sense but if the alternatives to playing guaranteed you safety, would you vote for it. I suppose a clear alternative has to be on the table to help people in their voting decision. If it is points per game then I guess the 3 who would be relegated would rather play the matches as would those who missed out on champions league or europa league as a result. The only ones who would be in favour is those at risk of relegation who would be saved by the points per game method and those guaranteed european football.  Think it is time for the Premier League to be clear on the options, take abandonment off the table so as to clear the heads of those voting so as clubs are clear on the alternatives otherwise you could get the bottom 6 or 7 teams holding out in the hope of an abandoned season keeping them in the premiership and, on the assumption that you would put the same teams as last year into europe, some at the other end doing likewise for guaranteed european football.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 11, 2020)

GB72 said:



			That is interesting and so a few clubs need to be against the motion. Neutral grounds makes by far the most sense but if the alternatives to playing guaranteed you safety, would you vote for it. I suppose a clear alternative has to be on the table to help people in their voting decision. If it is points per game then I guess the 3 who would be relegated would rather play the matches as would those who missed out on champions league or europa league as a result. The only ones who would be in favour is those at risk of relegation who would be saved by the points per game method and those guaranteed european football.  Think it is time for the Premier League to be clear on the options, take abandonment off the table so as to clear the heads of those voting so as clubs are clear on the alternatives otherwise you could get the bottom 6 or 7 teams holding out in the hope of an abandoned season keeping them in the premiership and, on the assumption that you would put the same teams as last year into europe, some at the other end doing likewise for guaranteed european football.
		
Click to expand...

Any proposal needs to be at least 14/6. 

Neutral grounds is down to keeping cross contamination down to an absolute minimum. Grounds like goodison where the dressing rooms are very small and tight is nigh on impossible to keep 2mtrs apart.

 I think neutral grounds is the compromise that's needed to see this season finished. 

Nobody wants to settle a season on PPG, well at least not Villa or Sheffield united who both have a chance of staying up/champions league football respectively.

IMO you cannot hand places to any team whether its, winning the league/ champions league places/Europa or relegation.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (May 11, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			IMO you cannot hand places to any team whether its, winning the league/ champions league places/Europa or relegation.
		
Click to expand...

There are other sports that will come to an outcome if at least a certain percentage of events/fixtures have taken place.
Seeing as the PL is 80% done, I don't see why they couldnt say it's finished and done now.


----------



## fundy (May 11, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			There are other sports that will come to an outcome if at least a certain percentage of events/fixtures have taken place.
Seeing as the PL is 80% done, I don't see why they couldnt say it's finished and done now.
		
Click to expand...

are you actually just trying to wind people up or not able to think it through fully?


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			There are other sports that will come to an outcome if at least a certain percentage of events/fixtures have taken place.
Seeing as the PL is 80% done, I don't see why they couldnt say it's finished and done now.
		
Click to expand...

If that was the rule at the start yes.
But don’t think it was.
Ok for next year though.


----------



## larmen (May 11, 2020)

The German guidelines are a joke. Not sure how much satire is in there and how much proper quotes but what I have read is that you can’t cheer with your team mates or do high 5s, yet you can track your opponent closely for 90 minutes or stand next to your team mates in a wall for a free kick, ...

Considering they all live in one household (hotel) I guess all SD is overkill within a team anyway.


----------



## Slime (May 11, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			There are other sports that will come to an outcome if at least a certain percentage of events/fixtures have taken place.
Seeing as the PL is 80% done, *I don't see why they couldnt say it's finished and done now.*

Click to expand...

Erm ................................ because it isn't finished and done now!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 11, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Any proposal needs to be at least 14/6.

Neutral grounds is down to keeping cross contamination down to an absolute minimum. Grounds like goodison where the dressing rooms are very small and tight is nigh on impossible to keep 2mtrs apart.

I think neutral grounds is the compromise that's needed to see this season finished.

Nobody wants to settle a season on PPG, well at least not Villa or Sheffield united who both have a chance of staying up/champions league football respectively.

IMO you cannot hand places to any team whether its, winning the league/ champions league places/Europa or relegation.
		
Click to expand...

I'd heard they are also trying to pick grounds that are not in built up residential areas in case fans try to congregate around them and they are squeezed. That rules out the like of Goodison and Anfield, puts forward newer grounds such as Brighton, Southampton and City. I don't know if that is still the case.

Your point about the likes of Goodison,  Selhurst park as well, is right. Not just the dressing rooms but the internal corridors etc are just too tight and compact compared to the newer built stadiums.


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 11, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1259737641290997760
Do these journalists have brains?


----------



## Stuart_C (May 11, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd heard they are also trying to pick grounds that are not in built up residential areas in case fans try to congregate around them and they are squeezed. That rules out the like of Goodison and Anfield, puts forward newer grounds such as Brighton, Southampton and City. I don't know if that is still the case.

Your point about the likes of Goodison,  Selhurst park as well, is right. Not just the dressing rooms but the internal corridors etc are just too tight and compact compared to the newer built stadiums.
		
Click to expand...

As it's being proposed, by the time it comes to the season finishing, its likely  pubs,clubs and restaurants  will be reopened aswell as other leisure facilities. 

Fans gathering shouldn't be the main reason for neutral grounds.


----------



## Wolf (May 11, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1259737641290997760
Do these journalists have brains?
		
Click to expand...

Errrr🤔.... Nope definitely not.. 

If anything this crisis has done its highlight the absolute poor quality of many of our journalists both mainstream and sporting..


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 11, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Errrr🤔.... Nope definitely not..

If anything this crisis has done its highlight the absolute poor quality of many of our journalists both mainstream and sporting..
		
Click to expand...

That’s also the Editors job to say no.


----------



## Wolf (May 11, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s also the Editors job to say no.
		
Click to expand...

See my previous post I'd include them as equally poor at anything pertaining to poor quality of journalism.


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 11, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Errrr🤔.... Nope definitely not..

If anything this crisis has done its highlight the absolute poor quality of many of our journalists both mainstream and sporting..
		
Click to expand...

Would be more than happy to see quite a few of them go under.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 11, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			As it's being proposed, by the time it comes to the season finishing, its likely  pubs,clubs and restaurants  will be reopened aswell as other leisure facilities.

Fans gathering shouldn't be the main reason for neutral grounds.
		
Click to expand...

Fair point. It was a couple of weeks ago when I heard that and things have moved on.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (May 11, 2020)




----------



## Wolf (May 11, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



View attachment 30614

Click to expand...

Would raise an interesting question how does the championship restart with Wales still on lockdown when both Swansea and Cardiff are part of the setup..


----------



## Bunkermagnet (May 11, 2020)

fundy said:



			are you actually just trying to wind people up or not able to think it through fully?
		
Click to expand...

No, it's an honest response. Where will it end, teams taking legal action because this team or that team has players now available who werent before due to injury or other reasons, players possibly out of contract or end of loan. It's a legal minefield that only lawyers, barristers and the like will win.
There is no fair way out, so just call it done finishing the leagues as they are and take all the risks from playing games away.


----------



## Orikoru (May 11, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			No, it's an honest response. Where will it end, teams taking legal action because this team or that team has players now available who werent before due to injury or other reasons, players possibly out of contract or end of loan. It's a legal minefield that only lawyers, barristers and the like will win.
There is no fair way out, so just call it done finishing the leagues as they are and take all the risks from playing games away.
		
Click to expand...

There is no fair way out so let's use the least fair solution possible?


----------



## USER1999 (May 12, 2020)

has anyone asked Duckworth and Lewis if they can work out a formula?


----------



## Pathetic Shark (May 12, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			has anyone asked Duckworth and Lewis if they can work out a formula?
		
Click to expand...

e=mc2


----------



## rulefan (May 12, 2020)

Pathetic Shark said:



			e=mc2
		
Click to expand...

=42


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 12, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			No, it's an honest response. Where will it end, teams taking legal action because this team or that team has players now available who werent before due to injury or other reasons, players possibly out of contract or end of loan. It's a legal minefield that only lawyers, barristers and the like will win.
There is no fair way out, so just call it done finishing the leagues as they are and take all the risks from playing games away.
		
Click to expand...

And that option wouldnt create legal issues either???????


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 12, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			has anyone asked Duckworth and Lewis if they can work out a formula?
		
Click to expand...

Sadly Mr Lewis recently died, this is genuine by the way, as otherwise it would have been resolved to everyones satisfaction. If Mr Duckworth was left to do it alone then all sorts of nonsense could happen. There needs to be balance in The Force.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (May 12, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			And that option wouldnt create legal issues either???????
		
Click to expand...

Of course it would potentially, but I'm thinking about peoples health and well being and the ability to start next season on time and without further complications. Sadly there isn't any answer that doesn't impact on everyone one way or another,


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 12, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Of course it would potentially, but I'm thinking about peoples health and well being and the ability to start next season on time and without further complications. Sadly there isn't any answer that doesn't impact on everyone one way or another,

Click to expand...

Next season can be shortened / cancelled .
We just finish this one when safe to.


----------



## Orikoru (May 12, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Of course it would potentially, but I'm thinking about peoples health and well being and the ability to start next season on time and without further complications. Sadly there isn't any answer that doesn't impact on everyone one way or another,

Click to expand...

Why on earth would it be more important to start next season 'on time' than to finish a season that's 80% through with everything up in the air? Next season can start whenever but there are unresolved issues here. 

You can radically alter a season that hasn't even begun because it will be the same for everybody for all of their games. But you can't radically alter the season now when it's 80% played because that's impossible to do fairly.


----------



## AmandaJR (May 12, 2020)

Next season is just that "NEXT"...finish this season whenever and then plan for the following one. Can't see why it couldn't pretty much run from the end of this one as won't be a need for a break for players.

I just wish any talk of a return to professional sport would quieten down until it's appropriate - still seems unseemly to me when so many are dying and suffering still.


----------



## Orikoru (May 12, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Next season is just that "NEXT"...finish this season whenever and then plan for the following one. Can't see why it couldn't pretty much run from the end of this one as won't be a need for a break for players.

I just wish any talk of a return to professional sport would quieten down until it's appropriate - still seems unseemly to me when so many are dying and suffering still.
		
Click to expand...

I agree on both points, no rest time needed before it restarts, maybe just a week and then go. They are having their extended break right now. And I don't know why talk of football seems to have ramped up this past week when it still seems a long way off being safe to play.


----------



## IanM (May 12, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Would raise an interesting question how does the championship restart with Wales still on lockdown when both Swansea and Cardiff are part of the setup..
		
Click to expand...

...there are plenty over here wanting them to join the League of Wales and not play in England.   But of course they are sat on their bums in Cardiff and tend not to watch football!   

I cannot believe that it is ok to play football at the mo.  If it wasnt for Sky waiting on a rebate, the season would have been cancelled long since.... or deferred for a long as needed.


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 12, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Of course it would potentially, but I'm thinking about peoples health and well being and the ability to start next season on time and without further complications. Sadly there isn't any answer that doesn't impact on everyone one way or another,

Click to expand...

Of course, potentially????

Why the hurry to get next season started on time?

E-  go and think your argument through again.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (May 12, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Of course, potentially????

Why the hurry to get next season started on time?

E-  go and think your argument through again.
		
Click to expand...

The PL has been decided already so thats done there.

My reason for starting next season on time is so that the smaller and lower league clubs that depend on their FA cup and other Cup games ,and hope for as long a run as possible, can stay afloat and keep grass roots footy going with as many of them as possible.

Thats my opinion, everyone is welcome to their own


----------



## Slime (May 12, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			No, it's an honest response. Where will it end, teams taking legal action because this team or that team has players now available who werent before due to injury or other reasons, players possibly out of contract or end of loan. It's a legal minefield that only lawyers, barristers and the like will win.
There is no fair way out, so *just call it done finishing the leagues as they are and take all the risks from playing games away.*

Click to expand...


Calling it done won't alter the risk in any way, shape or form.
The only way to take the risk it is to not start until all is safe, which I believe we all want.
And when it's safe to play, FINISH THIS SEASON FIRST.


----------



## Reemul (May 12, 2020)

Abandon it as if it never happened, start next season on the same terms as this one.


----------



## The Autumn Wind (May 12, 2020)

Just void the season, and start the next one whenever it’s safe. This one’s done.


----------



## PaulS (May 12, 2020)

Reemul said:



			Abandon it as if it never happened, start next season on the same terms as this one.
		
Click to expand...

That isn’t going to happen , it’s already been removed from the table.

The season can restart when safe and next season can wait. Unfortunately the clubs are reliant too much on the money from the Telly deals and if relegation and promotion etc is removed then court cases all over the place 

The season will finish in some way.


----------



## Beezerk (May 12, 2020)

The Autumn Wind said:



			Just void the season, and start the next one whenever it’s safe. This one’s done.
		
Click to expand...

I'd say the opposite, finish this season when it's safe and scratch next season.


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 12, 2020)

The Autumn Wind said:



			Just void the season, and start the next one whenever it’s safe. This one’s done.
		
Click to expand...

Who is it done for?


----------



## PaulS (May 12, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			I'd say the opposite, finish this season when it's safe and scratch next season.
		
Click to expand...

People are always going to look at from a personal point of view

The teams in danger of relegation will want to season to be scrapped 

Some fans don’t want to see a Liverpool win , teams like Arsenal and Man Utd missing out on CL want it all voided 

It’s just not going to happen though - they will find a way to crown a champion and relegate teams and promote teams from the championship.

But if it’s done with some algorithm then it’s going to court


----------



## fundy (May 12, 2020)

PaulS said:



			People are always going to look at from a personal point of view

The teams in danger of relegation will want to season to be scrapped

Some fans don’t want to see a Liverpool win , teams like Arsenal and Man Utd missing out on CL want it all voided

It’s just not going to happen though - they will find a way to crown a champion and relegate teams and promote teams from the championship.

But if it’s done with some algorithm then it’s going to court
		
Click to expand...



as an arsenal fan i dont want it voided, weve got all weve deserved, were about as irrelevant in the discussions as it comes, not getting in Europe, not going down, not sure you can say that about too many teams though which is why whatever happens it will end up in court lol


----------



## DanFST (May 12, 2020)

IMO the next season shouldn't start until January 2021, try and finsih before then in novemberish  and give plenty of time for this to calm down slightly.

You can then run the 2021 season and 22 season without Qatar getting in the way.


----------



## Orikoru (May 12, 2020)

Reemul said:



			Abandon it as if it never happened, start next season on the same terms as this one.
		
Click to expand...




The Autumn Wind said:



			Just void the season, and start the next one whenever it’s safe. This one’s done.
		
Click to expand...

Why do random people keep sticking their heads in here and piping up with this unthought-out codswallop?


----------



## Bunkermagnet (May 12, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Why do random people keep sticking their heads in here and piping up with this unthought-out codswallop?
		
Click to expand...

Is this thread only here for a select few to comment and post on then?
Last time I looked, this was a forum where anyone can have free thougths and post within the rules of decency


----------



## Orikoru (May 13, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Is this thread only here for a select few to comment and post on then?
Last time I looked, this was a forum where anyone can have free thougths and post within the rules of decency

Click to expand...

People who usually don't have enough interest in football to discuss it, suddenly chiming in and say just cancel it all. Is that likely to be a well-reasoned view with a full understanding of everything that means? I don't think it is. And in these cases clearly it wasn't.


----------



## Pathetic Shark (May 13, 2020)

Whereas you could easily say that those with a passionate interest in football have such blinkered views and their heads so embedded in the sand that they are often oblivious to what else is happening in the country or the world.


----------



## Fish (May 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Why do random people keep sticking their heads in here and piping up with this unthought-out codswallop?
		
Click to expand...




Orikoru said:



			People who usually don't have enough interest in football to discuss it, suddenly chiming in and say just cancel it all. Is that likely to be a well-reasoned view with a full understanding of everything that means? I don't think it is. And in these cases clearly it wasn't.
		
Click to expand...

Who exactly are you to judge them and suggest where and what they can post!


----------



## Kellfire (May 13, 2020)

PaulS said:



			People are always going to look at from a personal point of view

The teams in danger of relegation will want to season to be scrapped

Some fans don’t want to see a Liverpool win , teams like Arsenal and Man Utd missing out on CL want it all voided

It’s just not going to happen though - they will find a way to crown a champion and relegate teams and promote teams from the championship.

But if it’s done with some algorithm then it’s going to court
		
Click to expand...

As it stands, Man Utd would qualify for the Champions League if current league positions stood - I want it voided to stop Liverpool winning the league. 😀


----------



## Stuart_C (May 13, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			As it stands, Man Utd would qualify for the Champions League if current league positions stood - I want it voided to stop Liverpool winning the league. 😀
		
Click to expand...

Me too, imagine how unbearable we'd be if that was to happen.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 13, 2020)

Pathetic Shark said:



			Whereas you could easily say that those with a passionate interest in football have such blinkered views and their heads so embedded in the sand that they are often oblivious to what else is happening in the country or the world.
		
Click to expand...

Every single person on this thread has acknowledged what is happening around the world. 

Football is a huge part of some peoples life. Sometimes its the only real socialising some do on a weekly basis. It can also be a release from the weekly struggles for others. Friendships have been made through football. 

This isnt just about team A or team B, it's not just about sky and the money men, its much more than that. 

Boris is pushing, sorry encouraging, low paid workers back to work. Most will have no other choice than to use packed overcrowded  public transport to get to work. 

Are sportsmen and women excluded from being encouraged to go back to work? 
Football and all other team sports needs to return but ONLY WHEN SAFE.

Theres not 1 valid reason why seasons,in any sport, should be cancelled or null and void.


----------



## Orikoru (May 13, 2020)

Fish said:



			Who exactly are you to judge them and suggest where and what they can post!
		
Click to expand...

It's just getting tiresome, every day two new people pop in to tell us that the league should be cancelled, and they haven't read the previous three pages where we already explained why that's nonsense.


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 13, 2020)

Pathetic Shark said:



			Whereas you could easily say that those with a passionate interest in football have such blinkered views and their heads so embedded in the sand that they are often oblivious to what else is happening in the country or the world.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, and you could also say that divvies who havent got a clue about football, dont show much of an interest and are not passionate about it should be outed for divvy opinions, which normally when challenged sees them skulk off cos thay cant put a decent and fuller argument together.


----------



## Deleted Member 1156 (May 13, 2020)

Not PL but still football related. Saw this article today and forget the bit about her tweets, not interested in that bit. The bit that caught my attention is the fact she was capped 102 times for England but is only the joint 10th most capped player!! How many games do the Lioness's play?!?!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52644983


----------



## pauljames87 (May 13, 2020)

drive4show said:



			Not PL but still football related. Saw this article today and forget the bit about her tweets, not interested in that bit. The bit that caught my attention is the fact she was capped 102 times for England but is only the joint 10th most capped player!! How many games do the Lioness's play?!?!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52644983

Click to expand...

Utter ridiculous isn't it? Alex Scott last cap was 2017 .. she is 35 now so was 32.. she has 140 caps. That's 15 more than Peter shilton who is the record holder for the men's team 

And Scott isn't even the highest capped!

She is 4th

First has 172 caps


----------



## Wolf (May 13, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Utter ridiculous isn't it? Alex Scott last cap was 2017 .. she is 35 now so was 32.. she has 140 caps. That's 15 more than Peter shilton who is the record holder for the men's team

And Scott isn't even the highest capped!

She is 4th

First has *172* caps
		
Click to expand...

That'll be Fara Williams then, made her debut in 2001 and is still currently classed as an England player from what I can see. She is only 36 and would me has an average of 9.5 England appearances a year🤔

Which when you look at a 19 year international career, if she played every tournament and qualification game is easily achievable. I think it's because the ladies have longer international careers than most male players.


----------



## Orikoru (May 13, 2020)

Wolf said:



			That'll be Fara Williams then, made her debut in 2001 and is still currently classed as an England player from what I can see. She is only 36 and would me has an average of 9.5 England appearances a year🤔

Which when you look at a 19 year international career, if she played every tournament and qualification game is easily achievable. I think it's because the ladies have longer international careers than most male players.
		
Click to expand...

They have a hell of lot less club games than the men as well. Especially 5, 10, 15 years ago. I guess there were more internationals in women's football to fill that void a little bit.

If you think those are big numbers have a look at the USA women's players. THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY-FOUR CAPS. I'm sure plenty of stats are missing or don't exist but it says she only played 63 club games.


----------



## Reemul (May 13, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Why do random people keep sticking their heads in here and piping up with this unthought-out codswallop?
		
Click to expand...

To be fair I have had to read some of the rubbish you spout no reason you can't do the same, pot and kettle springs to my mind.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 13, 2020)

Reemul said:



			To be fair I have had to read some of the rubbish you spout no reason you can't do the same, pot and kettle springs to my mind.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂👏👏


----------



## ColchesterFC (May 13, 2020)

Thought I'd better post this in this thread before the season re-starts and I have to post it in the Championship and Below thread.


Sorry (not sorry) Norwich fans.


----------



## 3offTheTee (May 14, 2020)

OK what happened 25 years’ ago today?

No checking on Google


----------



## Kellfire (May 14, 2020)

3offTheTee said:



			OK what happened 25 years’ ago today?

No checking on Google
		
Click to expand...

Blackburn won the league despite losing at Liverpool?


----------



## 3offTheTee (May 14, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Blackburn won the league despite losing at Liverpool?
		
Click to expand...

Spot on. Will not be repeated in my lifetime.

Went to the game and some Liverpool kids’ offered to “look after your car mister” Agreed but when I came back I had a parking ticket! Not their fault.


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 14, 2020)

Liverpool acted like a big club and beat a very good Blackburn side, despite it potentially helping their big rivals to win the league.

Very different to last year when Man United acted like a small club, and let city walk all over them (their 2nd biggest rival), despite fighting like caged lions a few weeks before when their biggest rival come to town.

Am I right?


----------



## Stuart_C (May 14, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Liverpool acted like a big club and beat a very good Blackburn side, despite it potentially helping their big rivals to win the league.

Very different to last year when Man United acted like a small club, and let city walk all over them (their 2nd biggest rival), despite fighting like caged lions a few weeks before when their biggest rival come to town.

Am I right?
		
Click to expand...

You're not wrong


----------



## 3offTheTee (May 14, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Liverpool acted like a big club and beat a very good Blackburn side, despite it potentially helping their big rivals to win the league.

Very different to last year when Man United acted like a small club, and let city walk all over them (their 2nd biggest rival), despite fighting like caged lions a few weeks before when their biggest rival come to town.

Am I right?
		
Click to expand...

You are right and they were then and are now and have been since I first saw them so many years ago. The supporters were as happy as The Rovers’ fans for obvious reasons.


----------



## Fade and Die (May 14, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Liverpool acted like a big club and beat a very good Blackburn side, despite it potentially helping their big rivals to win the league.

Very different to last year when Man United acted like a small club, and let city walk all over them (their 2nd biggest rival), despite fighting like caged lions a few weeks before when their biggest rival come to town.

Am I right?
		
Click to expand...

Fortunately West Ham stepped up to save you the embarrassment of handing United the league 😜 (and a chorus of “Bubbles” was sung in the Blackburn dressing room, led by Tony Gale!)


----------



## fundy (May 14, 2020)

Wash my mouth out lol but fair play to Harry Kane!


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 14, 2020)

fundy said:



			Wash my mouth out lol but fair play to Harry Kane!
		
Click to expand...

I was just gonna say the same, spectacular behaviour Harry Kane - top man.


----------



## larmen (May 16, 2020)

Has everybody picked a Bundesliga team yet?
I can recommend Werder Bremen. Not for the current quality of football, just because ;-(


----------



## fundy (May 16, 2020)

larmen said:



			Has everybody picked a Bundesliga team yet?
I can recommend Werder Bremen. Not for the current quality of football, just because ;-(
		
Click to expand...

Soft spot for Dortmund here


----------



## Dan2501 (May 16, 2020)

Feels like I've been sent to spy on this game by Marcelo Bielsa. Proper weird watching behind closed doors football.


----------



## fundy (May 16, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Feels like I've been sent to spy on this game by Marcelo Bielsa. Proper weird watching behind closed doors football.
		
Click to expand...

and somehow im still having to listen to Maccas utter garbage. Muted inside 5 mins lol


----------



## fundy (May 16, 2020)

Its football, but not as we know it!!!


----------



## Stuart_C (May 16, 2020)

fundy said:



			Its football, but not as we know it!!!
		
Click to expand...

It's very weird and strange, nice to see live game though 👍


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 16, 2020)

larmen said:



			Has everybody picked a Bundesliga team yet?
I can recommend Werder Bremen. Not for the current quality of football, just because ;-(
		
Click to expand...

My son and i were chatting about this. I've been to Munich a good number of times so Bayern stand out. That's too obvious though, like a foreigner in the past following utd 🤢🤢, so we had to rule it out. In the end we decided our hearts were not in it and so gave up. Based on your post, I'll keep half an eye on Bremen though 👍


----------



## fundy (May 16, 2020)

fundy said:



			Its football, but not as we know it!!!
		
Click to expand...


maybe it is, VAR spoils another game lol


----------



## Wolf (May 16, 2020)

Good old VAR.

Used to love watching German football when was living out there for a while. Our nearest Bundesliga team was Hannover 96 was so cheap to go watch them or we'd head down to watch Koln. So by default I'll take Koln of those 2  to watch,  as its Hannover are in Bundesliga 2 now.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 16, 2020)

One thing that Impresssed  me today was the standard of tackling. I was sceptical about how players would tackle, battle etc but  it looked like a normal game.

Roll on the PL 😉


----------



## HomerJSimpson (May 16, 2020)

Watched Frankfurt get stuffed by Borussia Mönchengladbach and definitely a full paced game with people committed to tackling and close marking at set pieces. I guess it depends what happens this week regarding any infections/testings as to how it proceeds. I hope the PL will come back asap and be just the same


----------



## PaulS (May 17, 2020)

Well looks like the Bundesliga has shown the rest Europe the way forward to get the leagues completed.

It’s clear it’s possible to have competitive games in the current situation so the Prem can restart but it’s a shame for the fans especially season ticket holders who do pay a lot of money to go , hope the clubs look after those people. 

I was surprised that some leagues decided finish the league before seeing what could happen but it’s certainly not going to be a voided season


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (May 17, 2020)

Its not about the players commitment or effort in the Bundesliga yesterday, it’s about their safety, it will only have/will be a success if none of them fall ill.
Fingers crossed they are all fine, but possibly a bit premature to talk about it being a success and showing how it can be done.

On the games themselves, felt like a friendly in parts and found myself switching between the 3 games at times.

Hopefully the PL would be a different matter as I have a more vested interest.


----------



## Kellfire (May 17, 2020)

PaulS said:



			Well looks like the Bundesliga has shown the rest Europe the way forward to get the leagues completed.

It’s clear it’s possible to have competitive games in the current situation so the Prem can restart but it’s a shame for the fans especially season ticket holders who do pay a lot of money to go , hope the clubs look after those people.

I was surprised that some leagues decided finish the league before seeing what could happen but it’s certainly not going to be a voided season
		
Click to expand...

We have no idea what will happen yet unless you’ve looked into the future?


----------



## Dan2501 (May 17, 2020)

England-Argentina from WC98 on BBC Red Button at the minute. What a first half it's been so far. 2 penalties, wonder goal from Owen, really good game. Not watched it since it was on live, forgot what a good game it was.


----------



## PaulS (May 17, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			We have no idea what will happen yet unless you’ve looked into the future?
		
Click to expand...

Why do I need to look into the future ? 

Yesterday showed that competitive football matches can be played in the “current situation” - so in the current situation Premier League can look to start in the coming month


----------



## NWJocko (May 17, 2020)

Whilst it’s weird thinking footballers are playing while journos are social distancing in the stands I’ve no doubt the ££ will mean PL is back soon enough.

Haven't looked into it too much, do all players, refs etc have to test negative before they’re allowed to play?

From clips I saw on Twitter it looked as soulless as football can get but isnt driven by that so it’ll be back soon enough I suspect.

weird mix of approaches across European leagues, UEFA comps could be interesting next year!


----------



## Orikoru (May 17, 2020)

PaulS said:



			Why do I need to look into the future ?

Yesterday showed that competitive football matches can be played in the “current situation” - so in the current situation Premier League can look to start in the coming month
		
Click to expand...

As Pauldj said, they haven't shown anything until they can show that the disease didn't spread from them playing the games.


----------



## Kellfire (May 17, 2020)

PaulS said:



			Why do I need to look into the future ?

Yesterday showed that competitive football matches can be played in the “current situation” - so in the current situation Premier League can look to start in the coming month
		
Click to expand...

Yesterday’s games in Germany was as much proof that football is ready to return as the idiots in Hyde Park were proof that Covid is a hoax.


----------



## PaulS (May 17, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Yesterday’s games in Germany was as much proof that football is ready to return as the idiots in Hyde Park were proof that Covid is a hoax.
		
Click to expand...

Did the game not work then ? Was a football match not played to a result ?


----------



## Kellfire (May 17, 2020)

PaulS said:



			Did the game not work then ? Was a football match not played to a result ?
		
Click to expand...

Are you pretending to not get the obvious point or do you really not understand?


----------



## PaulS (May 17, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Are you pretending to not get the obvious point or do you really not understand?
		
Click to expand...

A football match was played yesterday behind closed doors and didn’t have an affect on the way that the game can be played,  to me that shows that the Premier League will be able to played behind closed doors to ensure the season finishes. If you don’t agree with that then that’s your prerogative to have that belief 👍


----------



## fundy (May 17, 2020)

way too early to tell imho, massive range in commitment from players and teams across the games ive watched yesterday and today

obviously a handful of games is enough to ensure some Liverpool fans are 100% ready to restart the premier league, personally jury still a long way out


----------



## Orikoru (May 17, 2020)

PaulS said:



			A football match was played yesterday behind closed doors and didn’t have an affect on the way that the game can be played,  to me that shows that the Premier League will be able to played behind closed doors to ensure the season finishes. If you don’t agree with that then that’s your prerogative to have that belief 👍
		
Click to expand...

Are you really that simple? They could have just carried on the Premier League all along by that logic. It was always physically possible to play wasn't it?  It's about safety and common sense, not about let's just get some football played because we can. It can only be deemed successful if nobody caught the virus as a result of matches being played. As Kellfire said, you don't appear to have understood anything.


----------



## Imurg (May 17, 2020)

A couple of weeks or more before the Premier league can start..
As we've seen with this virus, a hell of a lot can happen, good or bad, in the space of 2 weeks.


----------



## PaulS (May 17, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Are you really that simple? They could have just carried on the Premier League all along by that logic. It was always physically possible to play wasn't it?  It's about safety and common sense, not about let's just get some football played because we can. It can only be deemed successful if nobody caught the virus as a result of matches being played. As Kellfire said, you don't appear to have understood anything.
		
Click to expand...

Are you also that simple that you don’t understand the point I’m making 🙄

I’m talking about purely the game on pitch and how the players would react in regards playing the game with the worries of the virus - the game wasn’t stale in front of no fans , the players didn’t hold back , it was a proper sporting contest.


----------



## Piece (May 17, 2020)

I ignored the Bundesliga stuff yesterday. That’s not competitive football for me.


----------



## Orikoru (May 17, 2020)

PaulS said:



			Are you also that simple that you don’t understand the point I’m making 🙄

I’m talking about purely the game on pitch and how the players would react in regards playing the game with the worries of the virus - the game wasn’t stale in front of no fans , the players didn’t hold back , it was a proper sporting contest.
		
Click to expand...

At some point but not immediately! There was never any doubt that you can play football without fans present, it's happened in the past already for other reasons.

_"Yesterday showed that competitive football matches can be played in the “current situation” - so in the current situation Premier League can look to start in the coming month"_

That's what you said, it doesn't say anything about playing football now in the 'current situation' because we don't know that it's safe yet.


----------



## Orikoru (May 17, 2020)

Piece said:



			I ignored the Bundesliga stuff yesterday. That’s not competitive football for me.
		
Click to expand...

I was never interested in Bundesliga before, and I wasn't able to pretend I suddenly am now.


----------



## Piece (May 17, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I was never interested in Bundesliga before, and I wasn't able to pretend I suddenly am now. 

Click to expand...

I was a little bit but having football behind closed doors just leaves me cold.


----------



## DanFST (May 17, 2020)

What happened with Dresden? Are their games being rescheduled? 

It's BS that football is back on the cards.


----------



## PaulS (May 17, 2020)

DanFST said:



			What happened with Dresden? Are their games being rescheduled?

It's BS that football is back on the cards.
		
Click to expand...

They are missing one game and it‘s too be rescheduled for a midweek 

When should football wait for ? All the sports are in constant talk with the government to see when they can move forward and start.


----------



## DanFST (May 17, 2020)

PaulS said:



			They are missing one game and it‘s too be rescheduled for a midweek

When should football wait for ? All the sports are in constant talk with the government to see when they can move forward and start.
		
Click to expand...

So they miss out on 2 weeks of training compared to everyone else? And some will have to go back really struggling for fitness and breath (that showed symptoms). Doesn't seem fair?

SD can't be maintained playing football. Until everyone else follows the same rules.....


----------



## PaulS (May 17, 2020)

DanFST said:



			So they miss out on 2 weeks of training compared to everyone else? And some will have to go back really struggling for fitness and breath (that showed symptoms). Doesn't seem fair?

SD can't be maintained playing football. Until everyone else follows the same rules.....
		
Click to expand...

Currently the SD rules in Germany allow sports teams to play - currently we don’t hence why they are solo training with the expectation that in June they will be allowed to train together and then play a match , same with cricket , rugby and other team sports.

Some form of social distancing will be in play for a good 12 months maybe more - sports can’t wait until it’s gone totally


----------



## Imurg (May 17, 2020)

I've only seen pictures of yesterday's games but it struck me as completely bonkers that you have two teams on the pitch, getting up close and personal, while you have all the subs sat 2 metres away from each other and all masked up......either it's safe or it isn't.....


----------



## DanFST (May 17, 2020)

PaulS said:



			Currently the SD rules in Germany allow sports teams to play - currently we don’t hence why they are solo training with the expectation that in June they will be allowed to train together and then play a match , same with cricket , rugby and other team sports.

Some form of social distancing will be in play for a good 12 months maybe more - sports can’t wait until it’s gone totally
		
Click to expand...

It's impossible to SD when playing football, that's a fact. 

Contact sports can totally wait until there is an instant test or something that lets us get a head of this. Unless you go the American route of placing all players in a strictly controlled bubble, its just not possible or fair.


----------



## Orikoru (May 17, 2020)

Imurg said:



			I've only seen pictures of yesterday's games but it struck me as completely bonkers that you have two teams on the pitch, getting up close and personal, while you have all the subs sat 2 metres away from each other and all masked up......either it's safe or it isn't.....
		
Click to expand...

Yeah that was such nonsense. Sitting 2m apart from your teammates, waiting to go and bash heads and knees with a stranger.


----------



## PaulS (May 17, 2020)

DanFST said:



			It's impossible to SD when playing football, that's a fact.

Contact sports can totally wait until there is an instant test or something that lets us get a head of this. Unless you go the American route of placing all players in a strictly controlled bubble, its just not possible or fair.
		
Click to expand...

Well it is possible just like it’s possible for many others to go back to work where there is chances of them breaking SD , same with people go on the tube , planes , trains , offices , shops. We all can’t wait around for everything to be perfect - players will be under strict testing procedures , plans will be in place.

Football and indeed many other sports are key both financially and mentally to keep the population going.


----------



## DanFST (May 17, 2020)

PaulS said:



			Well it is possible just like it’s possible for many others to go back to work where there is chances of them breaking SD
		
Click to expand...

There isn't a "chance" of breaking SD. Every corner, every tackle.


----------



## PaulS (May 17, 2020)

DanFST said:



			There isn't a "chance" of breaking SD. Every corner, every tackle.
		
Click to expand...

There are risks in everything in life - do you wrap yourself up in a bubble ?

Footballers looking at the stats are in the very low risk of serious harm in regards the virus. Things need to start moving forward and that includes sport.


----------



## NWJocko (May 17, 2020)

Just been reading a bit more on the beeb......

Whats the rationale for increasing to 5 subs available?


----------



## PaulS (May 17, 2020)

NWJocko said:



			Just been reading a bit more on the beeb......

Whats the rationale for increasing to 5 subs available?
		
Click to expand...

I believe what I read was that they are expecting clubs the play a lot more games in a shorter period so allow more subs to help fitness wise etc


----------



## Kellfire (May 17, 2020)

NWJocko said:



			Just been reading a bit more on the beeb......

Whats the rationale for increasing to 5 subs available?
		
Click to expand...

Players won’t be up to full fitness and will be asked to play so regularly in the hottest part of the year so this should help prevent injuries and fatigue.


----------



## fundy (May 17, 2020)

whereas sides are just using it to try and kill the clock in the last 5 to 10 minutes


----------



## DanFST (May 17, 2020)

PaulS said:



			There are risks in everything in life - do you wrap yourself up in a bubble ?

Footballers looking at the stats are in the very low risk of serious harm in regards the virus. Things need to start moving forward and that includes sport.
		
Click to expand...

No of course I don't. But I'm not as young, rich or confident as most modern footballers.  

What happens to the hooker that infects a footballer? What happens to the people at parties? Legally it put the clubs at a hell of a legal risk!


----------



## PaulS (May 17, 2020)

DanFST said:



			No of course I don't. But I'm not as young, rich or confident as most modern footballers. 

What happens to the hooker that infects a footballer? What happens to the people at parties? Legally it put the clubs at a hell of a legal risk!
		
Click to expand...

Hooker ? Parties ? 

Sorry I’m not sure what that is about


----------



## DanFST (May 17, 2020)

We aren't going to agree, so we can leave it there! 

https://talksport.com/football/7052...oronavirus-lockdown-london-party-love-island/ 

This is the latest fool that's stupid enough to get caught, no doubt many, many more are doing the same thing. Leaves clubs open to a HUGE risk.


----------



## PaulS (May 17, 2020)

DanFST said:



			We aren't going to agree, so we can leave it there!

https://talksport.com/football/7052...oronavirus-lockdown-london-party-love-island/

This is the latest fool that's stupid enough to get caught, no doubt many, many more are doing the same thing. Leaves clubs open to a HUGE risk.
		
Click to expand...

So far it’s a couple of idiots from thousands of sportsmen and women , and anyone caught will no doubt face any action. 

And “huge” risk ? The players were together before the lockdown when players were catching - it hasn’t ripped through the clubs and stat wise it’s not a huge risk


----------



## DanFST (May 17, 2020)

PaulS said:



			So far it’s a couple of idiots from thousands of sportsmen and women , and anyone caught will no doubt face any action.

And “huge” risk ? The players were together before the lockdown when players were catching - it hasn’t ripped through the clubs and stat wise it’s not a huge risk
		
Click to expand...

Just West Ham, Arsenal and now Dresden string to mind.

Jack Grealish, Moise Kean, Serge Aurier, Moussa Sissoko, Alexandre Lacazette, David Luiz, Nicolas Pepe and Granit Xhaka and Kyle Walker - multiple times. Have been stupid enough to get caught. Way more will be breaking the rules, increasing the risk to them and their fellow athletes. 


Obviously we don't agree. But if a club gets relegated or misses out on Europe and one of their players get it, they will give everything to try and find a way to start legal proceedings. It'll be messy.


----------



## Orikoru (May 18, 2020)

Scotland have cancelled their league, awarded it to Celtic and given Hearts relegation. They could have awarded it to Celtic before they even started the season to be fair, but it's tough on Hearts - they were a couple of points adrift though, and apparently it was voted unanimously, so fair play to them taking it on the chin I guess. Cannot see it going the same way with Villa & Bournemouth being the turkeys that vote for Christmas though.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Scotland have cancelled their league, awarded it to Celtic and given Hearts relegation. They could have awarded it to Celtic before they even started the season to be fair, but it's tough on Hearts - they were a couple of points adrift though, and apparently it was voted unanimously, so fair play to them taking it on the chin I guess. Cannot see it going the same way with Villa & Bournemouth being the turkeys that vote for Christmas though.
		
Click to expand...

There is still a discussion about whether the top league in Scotland may be expanded next season meaning Hearts could be going nowhere. They may not be being quite so magnaminous if they have been tipped a wink that they will be okay still. The document to propose this change is being put together by .................the owner of Hearts


----------



## Wolf (May 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Scotland have cancelled their league, awarded it to Celtic and given Hearts relegation. They could have awarded it to Celtic before they even started the season to be fair, but it's tough on Hearts - they were a couple of points adrift though, and apparently it was voted unanimously, so fair play to them taking it on the chin I guess. Cannot see it going the same way with Villa & Bournemouth being the turkeys that vote for Christmas though.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.skysports.com/football/...r-unjust-relegation-from-scottish-premiership

And so it begins..


----------



## PaulS (May 18, 2020)

Premier League clubs all vote to start training in small groups


----------



## Papas1982 (May 18, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Rubbish
		
Click to expand...

wWhen next season returns. Name your terms for anyone but celtic. I'm sure a few of us will take the bet....


----------



## Wolf (May 18, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Rubbish
		
Click to expand...

Is it rubbish though, nobody else gets near them year in year for how many years now? There's something unbelievably dull about the same team running away with it for near on a decade. Even Neil Lennon isna multiple title winning manager and he's terrible


----------



## Papas1982 (May 18, 2020)

Kaz said:



			They'll be favourites for sure but there was at least a contest this year. Celtic only got on top over the last five games or so.
		
Click to expand...

And by the time the season finished they would no doubt have been 20 clear. 

Liverpool will likely be further clear. But if i had to pick for next season. I'd be lumping more on Celtic


----------



## Wolf (May 18, 2020)

Kaz said:



			It was different this year so that's what the "rubbish" comment refers to.
		
Click to expand...

As an outside observer its not been any different well clear with a game in hand before lockdown that's what I'm seeing, how is that close or how were they going to blow that lead against the level of opposition they face.


----------



## Wolf (May 18, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Celtic had a good run of form over about half a dozen games that coincided with Rangers hitting a catastrophic slump. Prior to that Rangers were top of the league. Its rubbish to claim Celtic could have been given the title before a ball was kicked even if they had all but secured the title when the virus hit.

And it's Rangers that have the game in hand so you haven't been looking that closely it would seem.
		
Click to expand...

OK I stand corrected Rangers had rhe game in hand, doesn't change the fact Celtic are leaps ahead again and the weakness in their title challengers being in poor form against other even poorer opposition. I understand people get passionate about Scottish football but as an outside observer its a poor league that has experienced a period of dominance by 1 team who even with poor quality of managers (Rogers excepted) has run away and been untouchable. I'm sorry but that's not a good level of competition for a top flite division. The gulf in quality against other European leagues and Scottish league imo is every growing. Thats not a dig by the way, I believe thats purely down to commercial input and evidence un every league nowadays that it really is only money that wins titles.


----------



## Orikoru (May 18, 2020)

Wolf said:



https://www.skysports.com/football/...r-unjust-relegation-from-scottish-premiership

And so it begins..
		
Click to expand...

That's weird, the article I read definitely the words 'voted unanimously' - maybe it wasn't the clubs that voted but a panel of some kind. I think they're right to feel aggrieved, although at four points adrift they have less of a case than Villa would, whose game in end if won would see them safe.



Lord Tyrion said:



			There is still a discussion about whether the top league in Scotland may be expanded next season meaning Hearts could be going nowhere. They may not be being quite so magnaminous if they have been tipped a wink that they will be okay still. The document to propose this change is being put together by .................the owner of Hearts
		
Click to expand...

Maybe they'll have to push that through now then as a kind of get out to avoid relegating Hearts. How many teams was it proposed for? As in how many in the top flight if it goes through?


----------



## Orikoru (May 18, 2020)

Wolf said:



			OK I stand corrected Rangers had rhe game in hand, doesn't change the fact Celtic are leaps ahead again and the weakness in their title challengers being in poor form against other even poorer opposition. I understand people get passionate about Scottish football but as an outside observer its a poor league that has experienced a period of dominance by 1 team who even with poor quality of managers (Rogers excepted) has run away and been untouchable. I'm sorry but that's not a good level of competition for a top flite division. The gulf in quality against other European leagues and Scottish league imo is every growing. Thats not a dig by the way, I believe thats purely down to commercial input and evidence un every league nowadays that it really is only money that wins titles.
		
Click to expand...

I remember a time when the standard was pretty good in Scotland, and good players wanted to go and play for Celtic and Rangers - perhaps fifteen to twenty years ago. But it goes to show the difference between a two-team competitive league, and an noncompetitive one where one team steamrolls the rest (since Rangers imploded). You need some competitive edge for good players to want to play there (or stupid amounts of money as with PSG of course).


----------



## Wolf (May 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I remember a time when the standard was pretty good in Scotland, and good players wanted to go and play for Celtic and Rangers - perhaps fifteen to twenty years ago. But it goes to show the difference between a two-team competitive league, and an noncompetitive one where one team steamrolls the rest (since Rangers imploded). You need some competitive edge for good players to want to play there (or stupid amounts of money as with PSG of course).
		
Click to expand...

I remember that to and it was a good standard, Rangers had players like Hately, Butcher, Woods, Gazza. Celtic with Larrson etc. But that's well gone now and it is quite sad as it'd be good to see it competitive again. France Ligue 1 is exactly the same all about PSG paying way above what anyone else can afford then losing all competitive edge. 



Kaz said:



			It's been true for years but things are finally changing. Celtic were favourites this year and will be again next season whenever that starts but it is rubbish to say they could be awarded the league before any games have been played. What gets me to react is ill-informed comment from people who clearly have little or no interest in Scottish football other than to belittle it.
		
Click to expand...

I'm certainly not belittling it, I used to love watching the games, money sadly has taken it all away from Scotland and the EPL is as much to blame as many leagues now pricing places like Scotland, France and Holland out of the quality they used to have unless they have an Oil rich tycoon owner. Hopefully Rangers revival can put the spark back into itm


----------



## Wolf (May 18, 2020)

Kaz said:



			I know. They guy who was has wisely decided not to defend the comment and then you and I ended up bickering.... classic forum 

Click to expand...

Its a total bickerfest in every thread lately I'm considering a long self imposed break.


----------



## Orikoru (May 18, 2020)

Kaz said:



			I know. They guy who was has wisely decided not to defend the comment and then you and I ended up bickering.... classic forum 

Click to expand...

I already got my bite why would I carry on fishing? 




Wolf said:



			I remember that to and it was a good standard, Rangers had players like Hately, Butcher, Woods, Gazza. Celtic with Larrson etc. But that's well gone now and it is quite sad as it'd be good to see it competitive again. France Ligue 1 is exactly the same all about PSG paying way above what anyone else can afford then losing all competitive edge.
		
Click to expand...

Agree on PSG. If their owners get bored and take their money away, the players will leave and that league sinks like a stone.


----------



## fundy (May 18, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Its a total bickerfest in every thread lately I'm considering a long self imposed break.
		
Click to expand...

not to mention doing it on the wrong thread


----------



## rudebhoy (May 18, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			There is still a discussion about whether the top league in Scotland may be expanded next season meaning Hearts could be going nowhere. They may not be being quite so magnaminous if they have been tipped a wink that they will be okay still. The document to propose this change is being put together by .................the owner of Hearts
		
Click to expand...

reconstruction is dead in the water. it was rejected by the clubs last week. the only thing that might save Hearts is court action.


----------



## larmen (May 18, 2020)

Watched ‘my’ game this evening, should have ignored it. But we scored our 1st goal since November.
Maybe it’s time for me to pick a premiership team. Aston Villa plays a similar standard, I think.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 18, 2020)

PaulS said:



			Premier League clubs all vote to start training in small groups
		
Click to expand...

Great news.


----------



## fundy (May 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Great news.
		
Click to expand...

lol some of the clubs been doing this for weeks


----------



## Wolf (May 19, 2020)

Things don't look good for Hudson-Odoi,   if he's guilty then obviously throw the book at him for an abhorrent crime that nobody should suffer. But if he's innocent he's always going to be tainted by it because its been released in the press already. I'm of the mind things shouldn't be in the press until they've been to trial.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52704448


----------



## DanFST (May 19, 2020)

Another footballer breaking quarantine, risking infection to fellow pro's. Shock.


----------



## Papas1982 (May 19, 2020)

Lucky the moderators haven't been furloughed......


----------



## GB72 (May 19, 2020)

6 positive tests in premiership clubs over the last couple of days


----------



## JamesR (May 19, 2020)

Deeney isn’t retuning time training apparently, because of concerns for his kid’s health


----------



## Stuart_C (May 19, 2020)

GB72 said:



			6 positive tests in premiership clubs over the last couple of days
		
Click to expand...

6 out of 748,  barely 1% of people. I'll be honest I expected a higher number.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 19, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Deeney isn’t retuning time training apparently, because of concerns for his kid’s health
		
Click to expand...

Fair do's, he has a right not to.


----------



## Wolf (May 19, 2020)

GB72 said:



			6 positive tests in premiership clubs over the last couple of days
		
Click to expand...

The bit I found odd about the article I saw about this was there was a comment that the Premier league will not be announcing which players or clubs have been affected. Now I don't know if that meant won't be telling us the public or will be keeping it from other clubs as well.



Stuart_C said:



			Fair do's, he has a right not to.
		
Click to expand...

I agree with you he has the right, I just hope clubs and the Premier League are understanding of this and don't bring actions against anyone choosing to do the same.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 19, 2020)

Wolf said:



			The bit I found odd about the article I saw about this was there was a comment that the Premier league will not be announcing which players or clubs have been affected. Now I don't know if that meant won't be telling us the public or will be keeping it from other clubs as well.


I agree with you he has the right, I just hope clubs and the Premier League are understanding of this and don't bring actions against anyone choosing to do the same.
		
Click to expand...

I think it's strange not announce who tested positive  or at least what clubs. 

6 players/staff in 3 clubs, not bad in the grand scheme of things


----------



## Wolf (May 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I think it's strange not announce who tested positive  or at least what clubs.

6 players/staff in 3 clubs, not bad in the grand scheme of things
		
Click to expand...

I agree 6 players/staff from the amount that will be working/playing is a low number and should be manageable. I just don't get why they won't say who, considering the transparency needed to stop any further set backs, surely being open about who it was or who in future tests positive will better for helping people to understand it all.


----------



## Papas1982 (May 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Fair do's, he has a right not to.
		
Click to expand...

Gonna struggle on 2.5k a month though.....


----------



## Stuart_C (May 19, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Gonna struggle on 2.5k a month though.....
		
Click to expand...

No chance he's being furloughed.


----------



## Papas1982 (May 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			No chance he's being furloughed.
		
Click to expand...

I know. 

He has the luxury to refuse to work....


----------



## PhilTheFragger (May 19, 2020)

Thread suspended 
Infractions have been given


----------



## ColchesterFC (May 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I think it's strange not announce who tested positive  or at least what clubs.

6 players/staff in 3 clubs, not bad in the grand scheme of things
		
Click to expand...

Are they testing the players daily? Just thinking that if this had been after the first round of games there would have been 6 clubs having to isolate for 14 days, the three teams with positive tests and their three opponents (assuming they weren't playing each other). And even if they had picked it up before a match would their team mates have to isolate? Don't know how long it takes after becoming infected to show up as a positive test.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 19, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Deeney isn’t retuning time training apparently, because of concerns for his kid’s health
		
Click to expand...

I saw a bit of an interview with him the other day. I don't remember precisely but I think his kid has respiratory issues. Throw in the added worry of the impact it is having on BAME people and how that could affect his kid in combination and i think most will empathise with him for not going back. 

I suspect others may emerge over the coming days who have wives, children, parents living with them who are in the vulnerable group and decide it is too early for them to return as well. Not enough, I don't expect, to be a major issue but it is inevitable.


----------



## JamesR (May 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I saw a bit of an interview with him the other day. I don't remember precisely but I think his kid has respiratory issues. Throw in the added worry of the impact it is having on BAME people and how that could affect his kid in combination and i think most will empathise with him for not going back.

I suspect others may emerge over the coming days who have wives, children, parents living with them who are in the vulnerable group and decide it is too early for them to return as well. Not enough, I don't expect, to be a major issue but it is inevitable.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, not judging, just stating what I’d read.


----------



## DanFST (May 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I saw a bit of an interview with him the other day. I don't remember precisely but I think his kid has respiratory issues. Throw in the added worry of the impact it is having on BAME people and how that could affect his kid in combination and i think most will empathise with him for not going back.

I suspect others may emerge over the coming days who have wives, children, parents living with them who are in the vulnerable group and decide it is too early for them to return as well. Not enough, I don't expect, to be a major issue but it is inevitable.
		
Click to expand...

I thoroughly dislike the man (from what I've read and see on the telle)

However I really hope he isn't punished in anyway by Watford or The FA. He shouldn't be and clearly isn't taking any risks, great parenting.

Edit: missed the team by a few hundred miles


----------



## Stuart_C (May 19, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I know.

He has the luxury to refuse to work....
		
Click to expand...

Ofcourse but he also has the same right as you do with your employer.

One things for certain, football right now is probably the safest workplace in the country.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 19, 2020)

DanFST said:



			I thoroughly dislike the man (from what I've read and see on the telle)

However I really hope he isn't punished in anyway by Wolves or The FA. He shouldn't be and clearly isn't taking any risks, great parenting.
		
Click to expand...

I’d be amazed if Wolves punish him 😉


----------



## Stuart_C (May 19, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Are they testing the players daily? Just thinking that if this had been after the first round of games there would have been 6 clubs having to isolate for 14 days, the three teams with positive tests and their three opponents (assuming they weren't playing each other). And even if they had picked it up before a match would their team mates have to isolate? Don't know how long it takes after becoming infected to show up as a positive test.
		
Click to expand...

No, this is their return to work test. They‘ll be tested twice a week and the day before a game.

Im not sure what the plans are re isolating if test positive after a game.


----------



## JamesR (May 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			No, this is their return to work test. They‘ll be tested twice a week and the day before a game.

Im not sure what the plans are re isolating if test positive after a game.
		
Click to expand...

If it’s anything like Hudson Odoi’s isolation I don’t think it’s quite appropriate!


----------



## Papas1982 (May 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Ofcourse but he also has the same right as you do with your employer.

One things for certain, football right now is probably the safest workplace in the country.
		
Click to expand...

Technically yes. 

But I'm sure lots of the public would rather not being working but can't make the choice he did. 

It's not a slight on him, just saying he's fortunate.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 19, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Technically yes.

But I'm sure lots of the public would rather not being working but can't make the choice he did.

It's not a slight on him, just saying he's fortunate.
		
Click to expand...

Any employee has a right to refuse to work if they feel  it’s unsafe. It’s then upto the employer to prove it’s safe by doing a risk assessment etc

Obviously Footballers and pro sportsmen are on a different plane to us.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 19, 2020)

jobr1850 said:



			Not sure if it’s been reported, but Deeney has a young baby with his new model bird.
The baby is only a few months old and has had some health issues, partly related to breathing.

so you can see where he is coming from
		
Click to expand...

new model bird you say.....


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 19, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Yeah, not judging, just stating what I’d read.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, I didn't mean it to come across that way. I was just expanding on the post you made with some extra detail 👍


----------



## Papas1982 (May 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Any employee has a right to refuse to work if they feel  it’s unsafe. It’s then upto the employer to prove it’s safe by doing a risk assessment etc

Obviously Footballers and pro sportsmen are on a different plane to us.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, but if its proven its safe for HIM to do his job and he doesn't want to then he can quit. Something we can all do, but a luxury most of us can't afford. 

I'm not entirely sure it's as simple as a workplace satey report either. Or tesco and the like would have no staff as they'd be tucked up at home getting paid as its clearly not a safe environment compared to footy. 

Like I said, not judging him for making the choice. But it's no way the same for all of us.


----------



## DanFST (May 19, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Tesco and the like would have no staff as they'd be tucked up at home getting paid as its clearly not a safe environment compared to footy.
.
		
Click to expand...

Legally it'd be interesting how it'd hold up, everyone else can get away with saying they enforce social distancing. Not the case in football obviously.


----------



## Papas1982 (May 19, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Legally it'd be interesting how it'd hold up, everyone else can get away with saying they enforce social distancing. Not the case in football obviously.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t think footballers should be forced to work. my point was simply he can afford not too, and also even if his work closed for safety grounds. He’s not getting furloughed like the rest of us.

i think most places would be hard pushed to prove social distancing is actually possible. Whilst contact is required for football, cross contamination of stock can’t be 100 stopped in a supermarket, very few follow the arrows for going one way around the store etc. I just think that shelve stackers have a lot less clout than sport stars. the law may be the same for all of us, but it is blatantly obvious we aren’t all governed by them equally.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 19, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



*I don’t think footballers should be forced to work*. my point was simply he can afford not too, and also even if his work closed for safety grounds. He’s not getting furloughed like the rest of us.

i think most places would be hard pushed to prove social distancing is actually possible. Whilst contact is required for football, cross contamination of stock can’t be 100 stopped in a supermarket, very few follow the arrows for going one way around the store etc. I just think that shelve stackers have a lot less clout than sport stars. the law may be the same for all of us, but it is blatantly obvious we aren’t all governed by them equally.
		
Click to expand...

Which is why the game should only be restarted when it’s safe for fans to be there.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (May 19, 2020)

I would be interested to know if those 6 who have tested positive were actually showing symptoms, or just carriers. If it's the latter, it just highlights how careful we all have to be.


----------



## ColchesterFC (May 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Which is why the game should only be restarted when it’s safe for fans to be there.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree. Let's just void this season and start the next one when it's safe for fans to attend.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 19, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Totally agree. *Let's just void this season *and start the next one when it's safe for fans to attend. 

Click to expand...

Let's not 🤫🤫


----------



## ColchesterFC (May 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Let's not 🤫🤫
		
Click to expand...

Why not? You're going to win it next year anyway. What's one more year to wait?


----------



## Stuart_C (May 19, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Why not? You're going to win it next year anyway. What's one more year to wait? 

Click to expand...

😂😂


----------



## Fish (May 19, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Why not? You're going to win it next year anyway. What's one more year to wait? 

Click to expand...

Why will they? If City don’t get their ban overturned, do you not think with no distraction of CL that would be a huge advantage?


----------



## Bazzatron (May 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I’d be amazed if Wolves punish him 😉
		
Click to expand...

Wish we did in the semi last year.


I'm not over it and don't think I ever will be.


----------



## Slime (May 19, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Why not? *You're going to win it next year anyway.* What's one more year to wait? 

Click to expand...

Pardon?


----------



## Stuart_C (May 19, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Wish we did in the semi last year.


I'm not over it and don't think I ever will be.
		
Click to expand...

Dont let it make you bitter, you'll get your turn.

Revenge is sweet, Arsenal haunted me for years, the cardiff cup final was a part repayment. 

 👍


----------



## Stuart_C (May 19, 2020)

jobr1850 said:



			Three of the six positive tests at Watford.
		
Click to expand...

really? Any players?


----------



## ColchesterFC (May 19, 2020)

Fish said:



			Why will they? If City don’t get their ban overturned, do you not think with no distraction of CL that would be a huge advantage?
		
Click to expand...




Slime said:



			Pardon?
		
Click to expand...

Well it's next year. It's going to be their year.


----------



## JamesR (May 19, 2020)

Ian Woan, Burnley coach, has tested positive.
Asystematic however


----------



## Stuart_C (May 19, 2020)

Just read the rest of Watford team won’t be going to training tomorrow. Bit of a strange decision imo, when everyone else has tested negative.


----------



## ColchesterFC (May 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Just read the rest of Watford team won’t be going to training tomorrow. Bit of a strange decision imo, when everyone else has tested negative.
		
Click to expand...

I assume that there was a delay between testing and getting the results back so in that time others within the squad could've been infected. Possibly also goes back to my previous question as to how long it takes to show up as a positive test after being infected.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 19, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I assume that there was a delay between testing and getting the results back so in that time others within the squad could've been infected. Possibly also goes back to my previous question as to how long it takes to show up as a positive test after being infected.
		
Click to expand...

They were all tested on the same day As far as I’m aware. 3days iirc.

Barring those 3 people, if none of the players have got it, and the training ground is limiting access to building and facilities there are cleaned and sanitised there’s no way They can catch it at training can they?


----------



## ger147 (May 19, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			They were all tested on the same day As far as I’m aware. 3days iirc.

Barring those 3 people, if none of the players have got it, and the training ground is limiting access to building and facilities there are cleaned and sanitised there’s no way They can catch it at training can they?
		
Click to expand...

The incubation period can be up to 14 days (the median is estimated at about 5 days) so any number of them could have it.


----------



## GB72 (May 20, 2020)

ger147 said:



			The incubation period can be up to 14 days (the median is estimated at about 5 days) so any number of them could have it.
		
Click to expand...

Guess it depends if they were all in isolation up to testing and stayed there until the results were known


----------



## fundy (May 20, 2020)

GB72 said:



			Guess it depends if they were all in isolation up to testing and stayed there until the results were known
		
Click to expand...

footballers, isolation? come on Greg you read the press, not a cat in hells chance lol


----------



## GB72 (May 20, 2020)

fundy said:



			footballers, isolation? come on Greg you read the press, not a cat in hells chance lol
		
Click to expand...

I meant from other staff and players, not expecting miracles 😁


----------



## ColchesterFC (May 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			They were all tested on the same day As far as I’m aware. 3days iirc.

Barring those 3 people, if none of the players have got it, and the training ground is limiting access to building and facilities there are cleaned and sanitised there’s no way They can catch it at training can they?
		
Click to expand...

We need someone with more knowledge of the subject to help us out here. Do those that are asymptomatic still test positive? After being infected how long does it take to show up as a positive test? If the virus can live on a metal surface for 2 to 3 days is it possible that someone could pick it up from a door handle 2 + 1/2 days after the infected person has been removed from the location?

I'm not aiming those questions at you in particular Stu, but more that those are the sort of questions that need answers to make it safe for football to restart.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 20, 2020)

ger147 said:



			The incubation period can be up to 14 days (the median is estimated at about 5 days) so any number of them could have it.
		
Click to expand...

There has to be a start point. This initial test is that. They’ll be tested  regularly and no doubt once the antibody tests begin they’ll have them done aswell.


----------



## Orikoru (May 20, 2020)

jobr1850 said:



			Three of the six positive tests at Watford.
		
Click to expand...

Deeney made the right call then!


----------



## Stuart_C (May 20, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			We need someone with more knowledge of the subject to help us out here. Do those that are asymptomatic still test positive? After being infected how long does it take to show up as a positive test? If the virus can live on a metal surface for 2 to 3 days is it possible that someone could pick it up from a door handle 2 + 1/2 days after the infected person has been removed from the location?

I'm not aiming those questions at you in particular Stu, but more that those are the sort of questions that need answers to make it safe for football to restart.
		
Click to expand...

Most definitely. I’ll ask my tart tomorrow she’ll know more about it working on the frontline in the hospital.

Yes, Dalglish recently tested positive even though he was asymptomatic.

As Ger said previously around 5days but can take upto 2wks

Yes they could.


----------



## USER1999 (May 20, 2020)

just imagine what a lump Deeney will be after months of not training properly.


----------



## Stuart_C (May 20, 2020)

😁😁 #Sliverlessjubilee  is trending on twitter 👏🏻👏🏻


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (May 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			😁😁 #Sliverlessjubilee  is trending on twitter 👏🏻👏🏻
		
Click to expand...

Rent free 😂😂


----------



## Stuart_C (May 20, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Rent free 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

I hope you have a great day reminiscing 😂


----------



## Dan2501 (May 20, 2020)

I know we've been in Lockdown a while, but I didn't realise it was August 13th already


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			😁😁 #Sliverlessjubilee  is trending on twitter 👏🏻👏🏻
		
Click to expand...

That cuckoo clock must need a new varnish by now.


----------



## Piece (May 20, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Wish we did in the semi last year.


I'm not over it and don't think I ever will be.
		
Click to expand...

I sympathise. I'm the other end of the spectrum about the semi.

For the final, I recorded it all and still haven't watched any of it back, even highlights. 😮😱


----------



## fundy (May 23, 2020)

Seems La Liga are looking to resume on June 8th. In the meantime more soulless German exhibition games this pm  come on Dortmund


----------



## Imurg (May 23, 2020)

2 more positive tests in the 2nd round of testing........


----------



## larmen (May 23, 2020)

fundy said:



			Seems La Liga are looking to resume on June 8th. In the meantime more soulless German exhibition games this pm  come on Dortmund
		
Click to expand...

I now watched 1 1/2 Werder matches and it is tedious to watch. Granted, the quality of football in Dortmund is by far better, but Dortmund even more so than Bremen is living of the yellow wall.
One thing is also, there was a minimum amount of home wins in those games so far.


However, I guess for Chelsea* the atmosphere at home games will be the usual one ;-)

* I randomly picked a billionaire backed team, feel free to be offended or amused by that comment


----------



## fundy (May 26, 2020)

Well the Bundesliga may well be decided in the next couple of hours, Dortmund v Bayern, what shouldve been the pivotal game played in front of nearly 100k supporters being played in front of a few hundred people at most (and Dortmunds home advantage seriously negated)


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (May 26, 2020)

Hopefully the papers will give this the publicity it deserves.

Marcus Rashford has received a High Sheriff Special Recognition Award for providing 2.8 million meals to children during the coronavirus pandemic.


----------



## pokerjoke (May 26, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Hopefully the papers will give this the publicity it deserves.

Marcus Rashford has received a High Sheriff Special Recognition Award for providing 2.8 million meals to children during the coronavirus pandemic.
		
Click to expand...

He’s the big name but to be honest there must be 100s if not 1000s involved.
It does amaze me though how the government seem to be spending billions but without charities many many people would go hungry


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (May 26, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			He’s the big name but to be honest there must be 100s if not 1000s involved.
It does amaze me though how the government seem to be spending billions but without charities many many people would go hungry
		
Click to expand...

He may of only provided the money, a fantastic gesture in itself, but it deserves far more media attention than walker and the other idiots that broke the lockdown.

I’m sure if he was out of order it would be all over the press.


----------



## fundy (May 26, 2020)

well that should be that for the Bundesliga, pretty comfortable for Herr Flicks Bayern side that


----------



## Beezerk (May 26, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Hopefully the papers will give this the publicity it deserves.

Marcus Rashford has received a High Sheriff Special Recognition Award for providing 2.8 million meals to children during the coronavirus pandemic.
		
Click to expand...

Christ, how big is his kitchen?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (May 26, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Christ, how big is his kitchen? 

Click to expand...

He’s only got a Weber.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (May 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			well that should be that for the Bundesliga, pretty comfortable for Herr Flicks Bayern side that
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. Hard to watch with no fans and no atmosphere but a good win for Bayern. With a 7 point gap it really is Bayern's to lose and I can't see that happening


----------



## Slime (May 26, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Hopefully the papers will give this the publicity it deserves.

Marcus Rashford has received a High Sheriff Special Recognition Award for providing 2.8 million meals to children during the coronavirus pandemic.
		
Click to expand...

For those who haven't seen it;

https://talksport.com/football/7097...f-of-greater-manchester-coronavirus-pandemic/


----------



## Beezerk (May 27, 2020)

So premier League teams to resume training with contact. I'd say footage of that will have a greater impact on the mind set of the nation than some idiot government adviser who can't properly follow the rules.


----------



## fundy (May 27, 2020)

4 more positive tests (from 1008 tests) spread between 3 prem league clubs in the last round of testing on May 25/26


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 28, 2020)

And it returns, June 17th.

It will be interesting if we regain our enthusiasm in the current climate, no crowds etc.


----------



## davemc1 (May 28, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			And it returns, June 17th.

It will be interesting if we regain our enthusiasm in the current climate, no crowds etc.
		
Click to expand...

I’ve not really missed it until this point. I’m so buzzing right now!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 28, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			I’ve not really missed it until this point. I’m so buzzing right now!
		
Click to expand...

You guys have a reason to buzz to be fair. I'll watch matches but at the moment I am feeling oddly underwhelmed by the thought. I'm sure that will change when things start up again.

Two bits of good news today. This and the golf in the UK starting in July. It might not be normal but it is the start of things happening again.


----------



## GB72 (May 28, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			And it returns, June 17th.

It will be interesting if we regain our enthusiasm in the current climate, no crowds etc.
		
Click to expand...

Should be interesting. Cannot get into the German football as the combination of no atmosphere plus not caring about the result removes pretty much all of the reasons I watch sport. Maybe having no crowds but being more invested in the teams playing will make a difference.


----------



## Rlburnside (May 28, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			And it returns, June 17th.

It will be interesting if we regain our enthusiasm in the current climate, no crowds etc.
		
Click to expand...

Don’t think I will have much interest watching football without the fans it will be soulless, maybe it could be a silver lining for football with a big drop in sky sports subscribers they might reconsider putting so much money into football which in turn would stop the crazy merry go round of obscene money for transfers and wages.


----------



## Dan2501 (May 28, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			Don’t think I will have much interest watching football without the fans it will be soulless, maybe it could be a silver lining for football with a big drop in sky sports subscribers they might reconsider putting so much money into football which in turn would stop the crazy merry go round of obscene money for transfers and wages.
		
Click to expand...

No way. People are gonna go crazy for it. Betting companies are going to make a fortune. Sky subscriptions back through the roof.


----------



## Orikoru (May 28, 2020)

I don't know why people make such a big deal about it being without fans. It will sound a bit unusual without the crowd noise at first but you'll still be watching two Premier League teams trying to beat each other, just like before. And we'll still have VAR ruining every game, just like before.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 28, 2020)

GB72 said:



			Should be interesting. Cannot get into the German football as the combination of no atmosphere plus not caring about the result removes pretty much all of the reasons I watch sport. Maybe having no crowds but being more invested in the teams playing will make a difference.
		
Click to expand...

I thought I would be buzzing for the German football but it just had no meaning to me so I left it. It does show how for some, I'm one of them, I have to care to some extent about the teams in front of me. I feel invested in the PL because my team plays in it so even a Norwich v Burnley is a game I will watch. Outside of that league, I can not get excited. If we ever had a European Super League I would not watch it for the same reason. My club would not be in it, highly unlikely at the moment anyway, so it has no relevance to me.


----------



## Orikoru (May 28, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I thought I would be buzzing for the German football but it just had no meaning to me so I left it. It does show how for some, I'm one of them, I have to care to some extent about the teams in front of me. I feel invested in the PL because my team plays in it so even a Norwich v Burnley is a game I will watch. Outside of that league, I can not get excited. If we ever had a European Super League I would not watch it for the same reason. My club would not be in it, highly unlikely at the moment anyway, so it has no relevance to me.
		
Click to expand...

I'm the same. I don't watch Champion's League games that don't involve Spurs. Other than the finals over the years. But yeah, I'm never bothered who progresses out of PSG or Bayern, or whoever. So I'm even less likely to watch a league game from abroad.


----------



## fundy (May 28, 2020)

For those not watching the Bundesliga the really big differences seems to be home advantage counts for nothing in an empty stadium (may even be a negative based on small sample) and that lots more goals are being scored at set pieces (maybe due to a subconscious fear of defenders not being fully committed in these sorts of challenges?). Been a huge drop in play acting and feigning injury too which is a bonus though not convinced that one will translate to the premier league


----------



## HomerJSimpson (May 28, 2020)

Will be interesting to see how this pans out. More interested in the resumption of the prediction league so I can make a late surge for the title


----------



## Beezerk (May 28, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			And it returns, June 17th.

It will be interesting if we regain our enthusiasm in the current climate, no crowds etc.
		
Click to expand...

I foresee mass football parties around the Liverpool area 🤣


----------



## Lord Tyrion (May 28, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			I foresee mass football parties around the Liverpool area 🤣
		
Click to expand...

I genuinely don't think it will hurt others fans as badly now though. Part of the joy for winning fans is seeing  the pain of your rivals, knowing it is eating them up. I think in the current circumstances that everyone else will be pretty apathetic, very, very different to how it was back in February. 

I know liverpool fans will still love it, will still celebrate, but it has eased the agony for the rest of us 😁.


----------



## Billysboots (May 28, 2020)

I had a phone call from Man United this morning about my membership renewal and they told me then the information they had was about the league starting again in three weeks. Even then I thought, yeah, yeah, I’ll believe it when I see it.

I’m delighted for two reasons. First, I have missed live football like you would not believe. I’ve never watched a German league game until recently but I’ve been glued to BT Sport for a fortnight.

Second, despite my unbridled hatred of Liverpool, even I would have had some sympathy for their fans if their 30 year wait for a league title had ended by them being gifted it. At least now they can rightly claim to have won it over 38 games.

And you know what? They deserve it because (through gritted teeth) their football this season has been breathtaking.


----------



## Piece (May 28, 2020)

Can't get that excited really. Football without live fans is like a Fab lolly without the 100s and 1000s.

I'll watch it. If we stay up great, if not, I feel right now that I'm not too bothered.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (May 28, 2020)

Bit concerned two Fulham players have tested positive. Sod's law says one will be Mitrovic and so any change of reeling in WBA will go west and we'll find a way to struggle to stay in the pay-offs. On the subject of Liverpool fans celebrating their inevitable success I can't see how the authorities will be able to stop them congregating at Anfield or in the town centre. Part of me says let them enjoy it after 30 years and another concerned about infection risks of so many in such a small(ish) area


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (May 28, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			I foresee mass football parties around the Liverpool area 🤣
		
Click to expand...

That’ll be the Everton fans, Lpool parties will be held in their homes in Norway, Ireland & Devon.


----------



## Rlburnside (May 28, 2020)

How will footballers be able to play without spitting everywhere, ok bit of a joke but can’t be very healthy.


----------



## Orikoru (May 28, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Bit concerned two Fulham players have tested positive. Sod's law says one will be Mitrovic and so any change of reeling in WBA will go west and we'll find a way to struggle to stay in the pay-offs.
		
Click to expand...

Or you know, Mitrovic could die of coronavirus. But mainly Fulham might miss out on the play-offs.


----------



## clubchamp98 (May 28, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			How will footballers be able to play without spitting everywhere, ok bit of a joke but can’t be very healthy.
		
Click to expand...

Not all footballers spit.
It’s not about health now it’s about money.
I can have six people in my garden. 2 mts apart.
But if I owned a football club I could have 22 +


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 28, 2020)

Seems that the games are being shown Live on BBC as well , going to be split across all the channels.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (May 28, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Or you know, Mitrovic could die of coronavirus. But mainly Fulham might miss out on the play-offs. 

Click to expand...

Have you seen him. He's super hard (with a screw loose as well) and the virus wouldn't dare harm him. If it is him though it will affect us big time as not sure where else the goals come from. Depends of course if/when the championship resumes and so these two unnamed players may be out of isolation and able to play


----------



## Pin-seeker (May 28, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seems that the games are being shown Live on BBC as well , going to be split across all the channels.
		
Click to expand...

Tainted


----------



## USER1999 (May 29, 2020)

yep, 4 games on BBC, 4 on Amazon prime, the rest split between Sky and BT Sport.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 29, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			yep, 4 games on BBC, 4 on Amazon prime, the rest split between Sky and BT Sport.
		
Click to expand...

Yep - it’s certainly going to be a flood of football games in a short period with the FA Cup also starting up

Not sure what they are going to do about rbe European Comps


----------



## Bazzatron (May 29, 2020)

Any season ticket holders of other clubs been told what happens with their tickets for the rest of the season? Not heard anything from Wolves yet, interested to see what happens.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (May 29, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Any season ticket holders of other clubs been told what happens with their tickets for the rest of the season? Not heard anything from Wolves yet, interested to see what happens.
		
Click to expand...

Everton announced 3 Options last week:
1. Refund pro rata on remaining 5 home fixtures.
2. Credit against next seasons ST.
3. Donate it to Everton In The Community Charity.


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 29, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Any season ticket holders of other clubs been told what happens with their tickets for the rest of the season? Not heard anything from Wolves yet, interested to see what happens.
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool will be giving us the money back on the 4 unused games of our season ticket, or letting you put it to next season's season ticket payment. They announced this weeks ago, but still said they will contact each ssn tkt holder individually.

Armchair season ticket holders can either buy an LFC themed antimacassar, drinks holder or new pouffe.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (May 29, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Have you seen him. He's super hard (with a screw loose as well) and the virus wouldn't dare harm him. If it is him though it will affect us big time as not sure where else the goals come from. Depends of course if/when the championship resumes and so these two unnamed players may be out of isolation and able to play
		
Click to expand...

Not that hard.

By his own admission he was scared  witless when faced by a Birmingham fan at the end of the game two seasons ago. 

Turned out said fan just wanted to tell him to make sure of beating the Villa in the play offs. 

BTW I don't think that you need to be too worried about trying to catch the Albion.

Somewhere between Bob Hope and No Hope.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (May 29, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			Not that hard.

By his own admission he was scared  witless when faced by a Birmingham fan at the end of the game two seasons ago.

Turned out said fan just wanted to tell him to make sure of beating the Villa in the play offs.

BTW I don't think that you need to be too worried about trying to catch the Albion.

Somewhere between Bob Hope and No Hope.
		
Click to expand...

Very true about catching WBA I think but knowing Fulham, even if they got close they'd find a new way to break fans hearts and cock it up. Comes as a given as a Fulham fan


----------



## fundy (May 31, 2020)

Championship resuming on 20th June, Leeds will be happy


----------



## HomerJSimpson (May 31, 2020)

Happy days. I think it's good if the PL are playing to a conclusion with relegation then the championship needed to do the same so we can get Leeds and WBA up by right and then have the play-offs.


----------



## Fish (Jun 1, 2020)

Fancy photo shopping Stamford Bridge on LFCvine because you’ve never won the Premier League 😳😜😂😂💙


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			Fancy photo shopping Stamford Bridge on LFCvine because you’ve never won the Premier League 😳😜😂😂💙

View attachment 30972

Click to expand...

Is that the same as using the Shankly Gates on a Torres Chelsea banner 😉


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2020)

12 months ago now 😁😁


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267330535694766080


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jun 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is that the same as using the Shankly Gates on a Torres Chelsea banner 😉

View attachment 30973

Click to expand...


Beat me to it.


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			Fancy photo shopping Stamford Bridge on LFCvine because you’ve never won the Premier League 😳😜😂😂💙
		
Click to expand...




Imagine dressing up in full kit to celebrate a game in which you didn’t play.


----------



## Fish (Jun 1, 2020)

Kellfire said:



View attachment 30982

Imagine dressing up in full kit to celebrate a game in which you didn’t play.
		
Click to expand...

He was the club captain, photos follow immediately after winning a title or a cup, did he not contribute at all in that campaign, I really don’t see any issue with it, but hey, let’s deflect the pathetic photo of our ground being photo shopped 😂😂


----------



## Fish (Jun 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			12 months ago now 😁😁


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267330535694766080
View attachment 30975

Click to expand...

I thought this thread was about the PL, so what relevance does any of that have, oh that’s right, nothing!

Talk about clutching at straws 🙄


----------



## Fish (Jun 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Beat me to it. 

Click to expand...

😂😂 a couple of fans get a banner done but a L’pool Twitter account with 120k followers does that photo shop and you think that’s comparable 😜😂😂

They started it Miss, but Miss....😂😂


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			I thought this thread was about the PL, so what relevance does any of that have, oh that’s right, nothing!

Talk about clutching at straws 🙄
		
Click to expand...

I’m not sure why that’s clutching at straws ? Its a nice celebration of this time 12 months ago when number 6 arrived 🥳


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 1, 2020)

🎣🎣🎣🎣


----------



## USER1999 (Jun 1, 2020)

Full kit spanner.

Insert your own euphemism where you want to.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jun 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			😂😂 a couple of fans get a banner done but a L’pool Twitter account with 120k followers does that photo shop and you think that’s comparable 😜😂😂

They started it Miss, but Miss....😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Both are embarrassing, but your the only one defending.

Similar to knobhead Chelsea fans who sing about someone slipping up in probably that players biggest match..........ah right, yes exactly what the FKW did in the European cup final in Moscow, wasn't it? Maybe he learnt his lesson for Munich, and he wore a longer stud, and tied his tie ups just that little bit tighter. 

Mad innit?


----------



## Fish (Jun 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Both are embarrassing, but your the only one defending.

Similar to knobhead Chelsea fans who sing about someone slipping up in probably that players biggest match..........ah right, yes exactly what the FKW did in the European cup final in Moscow, wasn't it? Maybe he learnt his lesson for Munich, and he wore a longer stud, and tied his tie ups just that little bit tighter. 

Mad innit?

Click to expand...

I don’t believe I was defending, I just didn’t think they were comparable, I think there’s a stark difference.

Yes, both are embarrassing, but things like this give fuel for the knobheads to pour scorn, rather than have them become justifiable banter, again there’s a stark difference imo.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jun 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			I don’t believe I was defending, I just didn’t think they were comparable, I think there’s a stark difference.

Yes, both are embarrassing, but things like this give fuel for the knobheads to pour scorn, rather than have them become justifiable banter, again there’s a stark difference imo.
		
Click to expand...

Defended like a Frank Sinclair OG.


----------



## Fish (Jun 1, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Defended like a Frank Sinclair OG. 

Click to expand...

oh please, I don’t think you can open that door when the Bootle Spitter put more in his own net than the opposition’s  😜


----------



## DanFST (Jun 2, 2020)

Fish said:



			oh please, I don’t think you can open that door when the Bootle Spitter put more in his own net than the opposition’s  😜
		
Click to expand...

Even so we lost the FA cup final.


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 2, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267784912268079105
Well said West Brom.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 2, 2020)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52896129 

Some interesting possible restrictions. Keep an eye out for some stars driving their flash cars in their kit. Wonder if they'll have the shin pads on as well?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268588072020525062
That’s a sizeable loan


----------



## Jensen (Jun 4, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268588072020525062
That’s a sizeable loan
		
Click to expand...

I said Mourinho was a costly mistake 🤣🤣


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 4, 2020)

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...son-dates-kick-off-times-latest-a9546486.html


----------



## Fish (Jun 4, 2020)

Kellfire said:



https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...son-dates-kick-off-times-latest-a9546486.html

Click to expand...

Are these the same fixture schedules that would have been played in that order had the season not stopped?

However, what I don’t agree with are any changes, such as 5 x subs, a ‘season’ should have continuity throughout, you can’t have a variant that can change the outcomes so much, like 2 extra subs for a remaining season, imo.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 4, 2020)

Can't see a few of the PL players enduring this https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52815491 

Some over the years have been notoriously shy of pre-season


----------



## fundy (Jun 4, 2020)

Fish said:



			Are these the same fixture schedules that would have been played in that order had the season not stopped?

However, what I don’t agree with are any changes, such as 5 x subs, a ‘season’ should have continuity throughout, you can’t have a variant that can change the outcomes so much, like 2 extra subs for a remaining season, imo.
		
Click to expand...

how on earth does 2 extra subs change the outcomes so much? certainly hasnt in Germany, all it has done has enabled them to get started when squads arent fully match fit


----------



## larmen (Jun 4, 2020)

fundy said:



			how on earth does 2 extra subs change the outcomes so much? certainly hasnt in Germany, all it has done has enabled them to get started when squads arent fully match fit
		
Click to expand...

IK only watch Werder Bremen matches and Kohfeld doesn't change much in any way. But what we have done so far is playing hard pressing and from the 3 strikers started each game I don't think any of them has ever finished a game yet.
And there were a couple of extra subs for injured players, or putting in a defender when leading before the end.


----------



## fundy (Jun 4, 2020)

larmen said:



			IK only watch Werder Bremen matches and Kohfeld doesn't change much in any way. But what we have done so far is playing hard pressing and from the 3 strikers started each game I don't think any of them has ever finished a game yet.
And there were a couple of extra subs for injured players, or putting in a defender when leading before the end.
		
Click to expand...


ive watched pretty much most of the games that have been on and not seen a result drastically changed due to lots of subs, if anything the sides that have used all their subs have looked more disjointed after making them, usually chasing the game

if a couple of extra subs are what it takes to get the games playing again its a minor enough change not to cause issue imo


----------



## USER1999 (Jun 4, 2020)

Surely you can only make 3 subs during the playing time, but have the ability to make two further subs at half time if required. Not a huge difference.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jun 4, 2020)

I get the idea of extra subs. It’ll help limit Fatigue playing games more regularly, or at least that’s the innocent plan. Realistically though the lesser clubs will still want their best layers on the pitch whilst the bigger clubs can be more extreme in tactics. if they‘re desperate for a goal they can go gung ho and then rejig and defend somewhat if they score.


----------



## fundy (Jun 4, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Surely you can only make 3 subs during the playing time, but have the ability to make two further subs at half time if required. Not a huge difference.
		
Click to expand...

pretty sure in germany youre allowed to make 3 lots of substitutions up to a maximum of 5 players, assume we'll be the same, ie you make them as 2/2/1  or 3/1/1 at a time if you want to use all 5


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 4, 2020)

Teams in Germany have played at lower intensity and with less pressing since the league resumed. They’ve also spoken of more muscle injuries than would be expected. And that’s with five subs. Good idea imo. 

Werner going to Chelsea, not Liverpool is the big news on social media.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 4, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Teams in Germany have played at lower intensity and with less pressing since the league resumed. They’ve also spoken of more muscle injuries than would be expected. And that’s with five subs. Good idea imo.

Werner going to Chelsea, not Liverpool is the big news on social media.
		
Click to expand...

If that’s the case I’m sure we’ll be hearing that Werner is that good anyway 😂


----------



## BrianM (Jun 4, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I get the idea of extra subs. It’ll help limit Fatigue playing games more regularly, or at least that’s the innocent plan. Realistically though the lesser clubs will still want their best layers on the pitch whilst the bigger clubs can be more extreme in tactics. if they‘re desperate for a goal they can go gung ho and then rejig and defend somewhat if they score.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on, it will favour the bigger clubs with better squads to rotate, look at the top clubs squads compared to the bottom half squads.
The season should be played out as it started in my opinion 👍🏻


----------



## Kellfire (Jun 4, 2020)

BrianM said:



			Spot on, it will favour the bigger clubs with better squads to rotate, look at the top clubs squads compared to the bottom half squads.
The season should be played out as it started in my opinion 👍🏻
		
Click to expand...

To hell with their health. Yep.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jun 4, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			To hell with their health. Yep.
		
Click to expand...

If that were the case the league could make a stipulation that players could only play a certain amount of games or just not start the season. 

Id imagine small clubs simply wont reap the same benefit of it. Smaller squads, smaller game changers to utilise.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2020)

I don’t really see it making too much of a difference in the grand scheme of things , it’s still just the three changes during the game I believe.  I guess it’s all about the fitness of the players etc


----------



## BrianM (Jun 5, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			To hell with their health. Yep.
		
Click to expand...

If they were that bothered about their health, they wouldn’t of re-started the season, it’s about the money, that’s what it always comes down to.


----------



## NWJocko (Jun 5, 2020)

Understand why they’ve introduced the rule change re fitness I guess but it skews the odds even more in favour of the “big” clubs with bigger and better squads etc......

Not sure how fair it is if a team get relegated after, hypothetically, being 2-0 up at half time to City who can make 5 changes of £50m + players and win when their relegation rivals potentially held out to win or draw in the “pre Covid” league as that option wasn’t open to City (I don’t know if any previous games have been like that so hypothetical please don’t ask me to find evidence of a game that might have happened in 🙄)


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 5, 2020)

NWJocko said:



			Understand why they’ve introduced the rule change re fitness I guess but it skews the odds even more in favour of the “big” clubs with bigger and better squads etc......

Not sure how fair it is if a team get relegated after, hypothetically, being 2-0 up at half time to City who can make 5 changes of £50m + players and win when their relegation rivals potentially held out to win or draw in the “pre Covid” league as that option wasn’t open to City (I don’t know if any previous games have been like that so hypothetical please don’t ask me to find evidence of a game that might have happened in 🙄)
		
Click to expand...

It is the best of a bad situation though isn't it? The alternative is that we see an increase in muscle tears, various injuries etc as they are cramming more games in than usual to finish the season off. It is not ideal but life is not normal right now, compromises are having to be made.


----------



## NWJocko (Jun 5, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It is the best of a bad situation though isn't it? The alternative is that we see an increase in muscle tears, various injuries etc as they are cramming more games in than usual to finish the season off. It is not ideal but life is not normal right now, compromises are having to be made.
		
Click to expand...

Wouldn’t say it’s “the best” more just a(nother) compromise to get their hands on the money quicker....

Better that the season is completed but changing rules halfway through is a bit odd IMO.

Are they playing games more frequently than previously? If they’ve all been in training as per normal not really sure why they’re expecting more injuries now?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 5, 2020)

NWJocko said:



			Wouldn’t say it’s “the best” more just a(nother) compromise to get their hands on the money quicker....

Better that the season is completed but changing rules halfway through is a bit odd IMO.

Are they playing games more frequently than previously? If they’ve all been in training as per normal not really sure why they’re expecting more injuries now?
		
Click to expand...

It is odd but then life now is odd.

I think we are still waiting for fixtures to be confirmed but my understanding is that they are going to be compressing the remaining games into a shorter space than usual, less recovery time. That gives the potential for great muscle injuries unless the players are managed correctly. It is a player welfare issue, I am okay with that.


----------



## NWJocko (Jun 5, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It is odd but then life now is odd.

I think we are still waiting for fixtures to be confirmed but my understanding is that they are going to be compressing the remaining games into a shorter space than usual, less recovery time. That gives the potential for great muscle injuries unless the players are managed correctly. It is a player welfare issue, I am okay with that.
		
Click to expand...

I understand that player welfare issue if they’re compressing the schedule.

A little ironic they’re bothered about pulled hamstrings but happy to crack on accepting the welfare issue of starting back up whilst a virus that’s stopped the world is still around though!!


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 5, 2020)

NWJocko said:



			I understand that player welfare issue if they’re compressing the schedule.

A little ironic they’re bothered about pulled hamstrings but happy to crack on accepting the welfare issue of starting back up whilst a virus that’s stopped the world is still around though!!
		
Click to expand...

Players injuries cost money 

Affects their value sometimes aswell

It's another money issue


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 5, 2020)

NWJocko said:



			I understand that player welfare issue if they’re compressing the schedule.

A little ironic they’re bothered about pulled hamstrings but happy to crack on accepting the welfare issue of starting back up whilst a virus that’s stopped the world is still around though!!
		
Click to expand...

I totally get your point. The virus is not going anywhere right now though. It is declining but we don't know when it will reduce sufficiently to no longer be a threat. Does sport sit back and keep waiting or does it try to adapt and crack on, as all businesses are trying to do right now. It seems to be working okay in Germany, although it looks flat from the outside as a spectacle.

Players are employees, they could decline to play but would have to accept that they will not be paid for that period.


----------



## NWJocko (Jun 5, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I totally get your point. The virus is not going anywhere right now though. It is declining but we don't know when it will reduce sufficiently to no longer be a threat. Does sport sit back and keep waiting or does it try to adapt and crack on, as all businesses are trying to do right now. It seems to be working okay in Germany, although it looks flat from the outside as a spectacle.

Players are employees, they could decline to play but would have to accept that they will not be paid for that period.
		
Click to expand...

True, at least the season will finish I’d just expect even more disconnect between those with the biggest resources and the rest with the additional changes/subs.

Havent watched any of the German games in full but seen clips on Twitter, all a bit soulless and bizarre (jump up to compete for a header but social distance when celebrating etc)


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 6, 2020)

I've just seen Spurs v Everton, 1976 Big Match Special. Brilliant stuff. No sponsors on shirts, no tippy tappy football, no playing out from the back, no one worrying about possession stats, the wonderful Brian Moore on commentary, big man little man upfront. Happy days.

One of the best players on the pitch was a Spurs player, Alfie Conn. Never heard of him, I was only 6 back then but I recognise most of the other players, but he looked good on the ball, an exciting runner. I've googled him and he went from there back up to Scotland. He did okay but I would have expected to have heard more about him based on that display, unless it was one of his better games. Anyone remember him? Anything to add, flesh out his story?


----------



## fundy (Jun 6, 2020)

Not a fan of the piped in crowd noise in the Leverkusen v Munich game, really hope they dont do that for prem games


----------



## fundy (Jun 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			Not a fan of the piped in crowd noise in the Leverkusen v Munich game, really hope they dont do that for prem games
		
Click to expand...

https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/5/2...er-city?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter 

oh dear oh dear 

still, most game going fans knew they werent that important to the clubs or tv


----------



## Paperboy (Jun 6, 2020)

fundy said:



			Not a fan of the piped in crowd noise in the Leverkusen v Munich game, really hope they dont do that for prem games
		
Click to expand...

It's ok mate as an Arsenal Fan, it wouldn't make much difference


----------



## Jensen (Jun 7, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I've just seen Spurs v Everton, 1976 Big Match Special. Brilliant stuff. No sponsors on shirts, no tippy tappy football, no playing out from the back, no one worrying about possession stats, the wonderful Brian Moore on commentary, big man little man upfront. Happy days.

One of the best players on the pitch was a Spurs player, Alfie Conn. Never heard of him, I was only 6 back then but I recognise most of the other players, but he looked good on the ball, an exciting runner. I've googled him and he went from there back up to Scotland. He did okay but I would have expected to have heard more about him based on that display, unless it was one of his better games. Anyone remember him? Anything to add, flesh out his story?
		
Click to expand...

Believe a young Glenn Hoddle would have been playing


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 7, 2020)

Jensen said:



			Believe a young Glenn Hoddle would have been playing
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely correct. One of his earliest games I would say based on the commentary. It did not come across on the highlights but Brian Moore suggested he ran the match, even at that young age. 

The two that stood out were Alfie Conn, as mentioned, and Steve Perryman. Perryman looked busy, had time on the ball, never wasted a pass. I suspect he was a player that I didn't appreciate during his career, I was too young, but you Spurs fans will know all about him.

It was really enjoyable to watch. I thought the game would be very dated, the players look pedestrian and poor. In fact they were excellent, it was more rushed than possession based but it brought back great memories for me of a style of football that I grew up with and thoroughly enjoyed. I'll be looking out for more of these.


----------



## MegaSteve (Jun 7, 2020)

fundy said:



			Not a fan of the piped in crowd noise in the Leverkusen v Munich game, really hope they dont do that for prem games
		
Click to expand...

I thought it a great reminder of how important match going fans are...


----------



## MegaSteve (Jun 7, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Absolutely correct. One of his earliest games I would say based on the commentary. It did not come across on the highlights but Brian Moore suggested he ran the match, even at that young age. 

The two that stood out were Alfie Conn, as mentioned, and Steve Perryman. Perryman looked busy, had time on the ball, never wasted a pass. I suspect he was a player that I didn't appreciate during his career, I was too young, but you Spurs fans will know all about him.

It was really enjoyable to watch. I thought the game would be very dated, the players look pedestrian and poor. In fact they were excellent, it was more rushed than possession based but it brought back great memories for me of a style of football that I grew up with and thoroughly enjoyed. I'll be looking out for more of these.
		
Click to expand...

Perryman was a neighbour to a friend of mine when living in Ickenham... An absolute gent...


----------



## fundy (Jun 7, 2020)

MegaSteve said:



			Perryman was a neighbour to a friend of mine when living in Ickenham... An absolute gent...
		
Click to expand...

A good friend of my dads, one of the nicest guys you could want to meet (even as a Spurs player!)


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 7, 2020)

Wonder how this will play out this week (and beyond) https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52956259


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 7, 2020)

NWJocko said:



			Understand why they’ve introduced the rule change re fitness I guess but it skews the odds even more in favour of the “big” clubs with bigger and better squads etc......

Not sure how fair it is if a team get relegated after, hypothetically, being 2-0 up at half time to City who can make 5 changes of £50m + players and win when their relegation rivals potentially held out to win or draw in the “pre Covid” league as that option wasn’t open to City (I don’t know if any previous games have been like that so hypothetical please don’t ask me to find evidence of a game that might have happened in 🙄)
		
Click to expand...

Don’t forget 16 clubs voted for this, which only 6 of those you’ve described who’ll benefit. 

I disagree with the changes though, it should only be 3 subs.


----------



## fundy (Jun 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Don’t forget 16 clubs voted for this, which only 6 of those you’ve described who’ll benefit.

I disagree with the changes though, it should only be 3 subs.
		
Click to expand...


based on some of what ive watched in the bundesliga this weekend should be 11 subs a side! so many tired players especially after short turn arounds


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 8, 2020)

fundy said:



			based on some of what ive watched in the bundesliga this weekend should be 11 subs a side! so many tired players especially after short turn arounds
		
Click to expand...

I haven’t watched that many games tbh, the ones I have though they’ve been a decent standard. I’m actually looking forward to listening to the players talk between them through the game.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I haven’t watched that many games tbh, the ones I have though they’ve been a decent standard. I’m actually looking forward to listening to the players talk between them through the game.
		
Click to expand...

League is dead for me mate, yous won the title months ago and this restart is purely about money.
No interest in it at all.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			League is dead for me mate, yous won the title months ago and this restart is purely about money.
No interest in it at all.
		
Click to expand...

Nah still alive for me, way too much to be decided. I just hope West Ham go down.

oh and Null and void the CL, concentrate on restarting it next season.


----------



## fundy (Jun 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Nah still alive for me, way too much to be decided. I just hope West Ham go down.

oh and Null and void the CL, concentrate on restarting it next season.
		
Click to expand...


oh come on Stu please tell me youre joking, double standards much lol


----------



## fundy (Jun 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I haven’t watched that many games tbh, the ones I have though they’ve been a decent standard. I’m actually looking forward to listening to the players talk between them through the game.
		
Click to expand...

several sides barely going through the motions this weekend, hard to believe Bremen are a side supposedly fighting relegation, couldnt fight their way out of a paper bag lol. Schalke look like theyve never met each other which is some comedown. Frankfurt just werent able to turn around in a couple of days and looked dead on their feet midway through the second half. Dortmund were awful, half their normal tempo against a Hertha side who were happy to lose 1-0

was some very very ordinary fare on show this weekend for sure


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 8, 2020)

fundy said:



			several sides barely going through the motions this weekend, hard to believe Bremen are a side supposedly fighting relegation, couldnt fight their way out of a paper bag lol. Schalke look like theyve never met each other which is some comedown. Frankfurt just werent able to turn around in a couple of days and looked dead on their feet midway through the second half. Dortmund were awful, half their normal tempo against a Hertha side who were happy to lose 1-0

was some very very ordinary fare on show this weekend for sure
		
Click to expand...

This is my worry for the games involving teams with nothing to play for, purely going through the motions.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Nah still alive for me, way too much to be decided. I just hope West Ham go down.

oh and Null and void the CL, concentrate on restarting it next season.
		
Click to expand...

You can’t null and void 1 comp because it doesn’t suit, all or nothing it sadly has to be.


----------



## DanFST (Jun 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Nah still alive for me, way too much to be decided. I just hope West Ham go down.
		
Click to expand...

Why out of interest?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 8, 2020)

fundy said:



			oh come on Stu please tell me youre joking, double standards much lol
		
Click to expand...

whoever Wins it will have an asterisk against their name, just null and void it. We need to protect the players too 😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 8, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You can’t null and void 1 comp because it doesn’t suit, all or nothing it sadly has to be.
		
Click to expand...

of course you can, the comp is tainted now.


----------



## NWJocko (Jun 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Don’t forget 16 clubs voted for this, which only 6 of those you’ve described who’ll benefit.

I disagree with the changes though, it should only be 3 subs.
		
Click to expand...

Aye but they’d vote for playing on unicycles if it meant they got the money!

Issue I have with it is changing the number of subs, just makes it an “uneven” playing field. More for clubs at bottom tbh as winners are all but sorted and clubs fighting for CL spaces are largely the better off ones.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 8, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Why out of interest?
		
Click to expand...

My dislike of Moyes mainly.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			of course you can, the comp is tainted now.
		
Click to expand...

Because yous are out?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 8, 2020)

NWJocko said:



			Aye but they’d vote for playing on unicycles if it meant they got the money!

Issue I have with it is changing the number of subs, just makes it an “uneven” playing field. More for clubs at bottom tbh as winners are all but sorted and clubs fighting for CL spaces are largely the better off ones.
		
Click to expand...

Haha.

If it hinders the lower clubs why did they vote for it? I’d have thought the vote would’ve been 16-4 against.

I’d be surprised if many clubs actually use 5subs.  Using too many subs can have a negative affect and disrupt the game.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jun 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			of course you can, the comp is tainted now.
		
Click to expand...

Would the comp be less tainted if you hadn't lost to Athletico? Asking for a friend.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 8, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Would the comp be less tainted if you hadn't lost to Athletico? Asking for a friend. 

Click to expand...

Of course😉


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jun 8, 2020)

I think a few of you have been taken in.........


----------



## NWJocko (Jun 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha.

If it hinders the lower clubs why did they vote for it? I’d have thought the vote would’ve been 16-4 against.

I’d be surprised if many clubs actually use 5subs.  Using too many subs can have a negative affect and disrupt the game.
		
Click to expand...

Im guessing the only way they get their money is to play out the season? That’s the only reason behind all of this, like I say they’d have voted for anything and take their chances to get their hands on the cash.

The big concern, outside of the PL bubble, is what happens in lower leagues if crowds can’t attend into next season......


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 8, 2020)

NWJocko said:



			Im guessing the only way they get their money is to play out the season? That’s the only reason behind all of this, like I say they’d have voted for anything and take their chances to get their hands on the cash.

The big concern, outside of the PL bubble, is what happens in lower leagues if crowds can’t attend into next season......
		
Click to expand...

I thought it was just to help Liverpool win the league,no?😁😁

I don’t think the extra 2 sub rule was a big issue or a caveat to restarting the season. You’re right though it is mainly about money.

I think the PL bubble will struggle, it’s not immune from any of the financial struggles we’re seeing elsewhere.

The EFL needs serious help financially but also I think we’ll start to see clubs operating better in the next few years. At the momment it’s like hand to mouth and as soon as the money comes in, it goes straight back out.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 9, 2020)

So League 1 & 2 have folded and yet the argument was that not finishing the season would hurt smaller Clubs?

And the bigger Clubs who already have the money will continue? Doesn’t make sense to me.


----------



## fundy (Jun 9, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So League 1 & 2 have folded and yet the argument was that not finishing the season would hurt smaller Clubs?

And the bigger Clubs who already have the money will continue? Doesn’t make sense to me.

Click to expand...


cant believe weve heard the end of that yet, cant believe the Peterboroughs or Tranmeres are going to be too happy


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 9, 2020)

fundy said:



			cant believe weve heard the end of that yet, cant believe the Peterboroughs or Tranmeres are going to be too happy
		
Click to expand...

Or Sunderland, and Wycombe finish 3rd with less points than 4th & 5th!

All done on points per game, because no team has ever gone on a run or collapsed during a run in.


----------



## fundy (Jun 9, 2020)

Wycombe "finish" 3rd with 1.73 pts per game and a GD of 5
Peterborough "finish" 7th with 1.69 pts per game and a GD of 28

they had the same actual points when the season stopped

think the lawyers will be doing some late nights to earn their corn!!!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 9, 2020)

Stevenage dumped out of the lead without the opportunity to try and play themselves out of trouble although potentially Macclesfield could still replace them. Hardly seems fair to lose your league status in this way and wonder why they'd let it happen. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52705124


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jun 9, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			So League 1 & 2 have folded and yet the argument was that not finishing the season would hurt smaller Clubs?

And the bigger Clubs who already have the money will continue? Doesn’t make sense to me.

Click to expand...

I think its different down the leagues, I think they rely on footfall more than premier league clubs who have massive sponsorship and telly deals, so dont know who has said it will hurt smaller clubs more.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 9, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think its different down the leagues, I think they rely on footfall more than premier league clubs who have massive sponsorship and telly deals, so dont know who has said it will hurt smaller clubs more.
		
Click to expand...

The loss of revenue to smaller Clubs, ie, footfall, how will the loss of TV revenue be covered, possibly paying back the season ticket holders for the remaining games, etc.

All those arguments were initially brought out why Football had to be played and the danger of loss of revenue putting lower league clubs at risk of folding.

There was even talk of PL Clubs helping the smaller clubs.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 9, 2020)

Couple of articles from last few months on Covid-19 impact on EFL.

https://www.accountancydaily.co/efl-football-clubs-suffer-most-financial-distress

https://amp.theguardian.com/footbal...get-back-where-we-were-managers-players-scout

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/52986953


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jun 9, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The loss of revenue to smaller Clubs, ie, footfall, how will the loss of TV revenue be covered, possibly paying back the season ticket holders for the remaining games, etc.

All those arguments were initially brought out why Football had to be played and the danger of loss of revenue putting lower league clubs at risk of folding.

There was even talk of PL Clubs helping the smaller clubs.
		
Click to expand...

I think premiership clubs are in a different situation to lower league clubs from a few perspectives. 

1. If they dont finish the league they will have to pay the telly companies back a huge amount.

2. Due to massive sponsorships they have more income from other streams rather than gate receipts, and again may have had to pay a lot back to sponsors if they hadnt finished the league.

3. They can cover all the money required for testing, social distancing, bio-whatdyacallit at the training and football grounds, which lower league clubs couldnt.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 9, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think premiership clubs are in a different situation to lower league clubs from a few perspectives.

1. If they dont finish the league they will have to pay the telly companies back a huge amount.

2. Due to massive sponsorships they have more income from other streams rather than gate receipts, and again may have had to pay a lot back to sponsors if they hadnt finished the league.

3. They can cover all the money required for testing, social distancing, bio-whatdyacallit at the training and football grounds, which lower league clubs couldnt.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed to a degree, hence my initial point that getting going again was more important to the Lower League Clubs, Yes some PL Clubs would of had financial difficulties, but I doubt any would of gone under as is the threat lower down.

All Leagues should of been played out as per the PL or waited until till safe to do so, as previously discussed.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jun 9, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Agreed to a degree, hence my initial point that getting going again was more important to the Lower League Clubs, Yes some PL Clubs would of had financial difficulties, but I doubt any would of gone under as is the threat lower down.

All Leagues should of been played out as per the PL or waited until till safe to do so, as previously discussed.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, if safe I think all leagues should have finished even if 12 monthss time, before sorting out any of the next season after.

I think due to finances its harder the further down the pyramid, though, as less resources and no crowds but the increased costs of doing it safely is an even bigger hurdle, financially.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jun 9, 2020)

And anyway, get to bed, dont get me started.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 11, 2020)

Some injuries here:
https://www.premierinjuries.com/injury-table.php


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 11, 2020)

Gbamin's barely left that list since joined


----------



## fundy (Jun 11, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Some injuries here:
https://www.premierinjuries.com/injury-table.php

Click to expand...

not sure how up to date that is, has Torreira as injured and no return date but hes been back training for a few weeks at least


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 11, 2020)

fundy said:



			not sure how up to date that is, has Torreira as injured and no return date but hes been back training for a few weeks at least
		
Click to expand...

Says as of now, I took it as “live” from them being back in training.
Maybe training, but not ready to play?


----------



## Fish (Jun 13, 2020)

Never in doubt imo, but if she made false allegations looking for a payout, then she needs to be charged accordingly and dealt with severely 😡


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1271804566384893953


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2020)

Fish said:



			Never in doubt imo, but if she made false allegations looking for a payout, then she needs to be charged accordingly and dealt with severely 😡


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1271804566384893953

Click to expand...

It’s really sad that it’s so easy to accuse someone of such a serious crime
But if she lied for Money she should be prosecuted.
It makes it worse for genuine victims.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 13, 2020)

Fish said:



			Never in doubt imo, but if she made false allegations looking for a payout, then she needs to be charged accordingly and dealt with severely 😡


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1271804566384893953

Click to expand...

Will still tar him slightly in the terraces .. chants will be used 

Robin van pierse chant will be recycled

Completely wrong 

Why charges like this should be kept completely out the public domain until proven but that's another thread


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 13, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Will still tar him slightly in the terraces .. chants will be used

Robin van pierse chant will be recycled

Completely wrong

Why charges like this should be kept completely out the public domain until proven but that's another thread
		
Click to expand...

Nothing will change until the scum media stop paying for the stories.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 13, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Nothing will change until the scum media stop paying for the stories.

Click to expand...

Yes until proven the media should be stopped from putting it out.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 13, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Nothing will change until the scum media stop paying for the stories.

Click to expand...

The media .. probably the biggest problem in this entire country.

They breed hatred towards one group of people (scenes in London over the past week or so) they promote not respecting those in power . Again see today attacking police but also I know the gov aren't great but nobody listens because the media breeds a culture of you don't need to respect them 

Would love to see the media crumble.


----------



## Rlburnside (Jun 13, 2020)

Can he be trusted though if he thinks Chelsea are one of the biggest clubs in the world


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 17, 2020)

The new "final 8" format of the European cups looks really interesting, like a mini World Cup type thing.


----------



## Old Skier (Jun 17, 2020)

Considering hairdressers are not yet open these boys must have some very talented partners or do footballers all marry hairdressers.


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 17, 2020)

😲
Wtf?


----------



## fundy (Jun 17, 2020)

Olivers probably still got his own fitness watch not his refs one so it didnt vibrate 

as for the lino and VAR, not sure what theyre doing


----------



## The Autumn Wind (Jun 17, 2020)

Well, we’ve all been fed the line that goal line technogy always gives a 100% correct verdict. It clearly doesn’t, that ball was so far over the line from every angle, it wasn’t even close 😮


----------



## Fish (Jun 17, 2020)

Beezerk said:



View attachment 31250

😲
Wtf?
		
Click to expand...

Normal service has been resumed.


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 17, 2020)

It would never happen, but after seeing that at half time the Villa players should allow Utd to walk the ball in the net despite the thought of it sickening me.
It's supposed to be 100% goal or no goal now, that was miles in.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jun 17, 2020)

Whatever happened to using your eyes?? The GK falls into the inside of the post after collecting the ball!


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 17, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			It would never happen, but after seeing that at half time the Villa players should allow Utd to walk the ball in the net despite the thought of it sickening me.
It's supposed to be 100% goal or no goal now, that was miles in.
		
Click to expand...

The way the players and Oliver were talking I was thinking they might actually just do something ...

Alas no morals in football


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 17, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			It would never happen, but after seeing that at half time the Villa players should allow Utd to walk the ball in the net despite the thought of it sickening me.
It's supposed to be 100% goal or no goal now, that was miles in.
		
Click to expand...

Think about the times you don't get a goal when you should, the times a goal goes against you when it shouldn't 🤔. It's like a batsman walking in cricket. All very noble until you get done a few times. At that point you say stuff it and take the bonus when you get it, rough with the smooth etc. (Bitter, moi?  Ha ha)

It was over by a street by the way, I quite agree.


----------



## Cherry13 (Jun 17, 2020)

Beezerk said:



View attachment 31250

😲
Wtf?
		
Click to expand...

New social distancing rules state that the ball must be 2m over the line!!  (Shamelessly stolen from twitter)


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 17, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Think about the times you don't get a goal when you should, the times a goal goes against you when it shouldn't 🤔. It's like a batsman walking in cricket. All very noble until you get done a few times. At that point you say stuff it and take the bonus when you get it, rough with the smooth etc. (Bitter, moi?  Ha ha)

It was over by a street by the way, I quite agree.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I know, my point was badly worded 🤣
Goals are supposed to be 100%  accurate now yet the technology failed. It's not like VAR made a controversial decision, this one should have 100% been a goal and Villa know that. Makes it different than your regular "got away with one" imo.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jun 17, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Whatever happened to using your eyes?? The GK falls into the inside of the post after collecting the ball!
		
Click to expand...

I think as the technology when actually turned on is basically perfect, it’s now simply left to that to confirm a goal or not so the refs can concentrate on other things.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jun 17, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I think as the technology when actually turned on is basically perfect, it’s now simply left to that to confirm a goal or not so the refs can concentrate on other things.
		
Click to expand...

Technology fails - we need a backup and that's more technology (VAR) or some human intervention...


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 17, 2020)

I could have put this in Random Irritations but the whole distancing of players, subs, spraying balls etc is cobblers when you consider they then play a physical,  contact sport, fist bump at the end of the game. Drop the pretence, just get on with it.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jun 17, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I could have put this in Random Irritations but the whole distancing of players, subs, spraying balls etc is cobblers when you consider they then play a physical,  contact sport, first bump at the end of the game. Drop the pretence, just get on with it.
		
Click to expand...

Then the Arsenal physio is wearing his mask on his chin and not covering his nose.

It's all blinking crackers


----------



## Papas1982 (Jun 17, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Technology fails - we need a backup and that's more technology (VAR) or some human intervention...
		
Click to expand...

I agree car should have been involved. I guess the ref was just so confident in the tech he didn’t request it.


----------



## fundy (Jun 17, 2020)

2 injuries in 20 mins, were gonna be grateful for the 5 subs rule it seems


----------



## USER1999 (Jun 17, 2020)

fundy said:



			2 injuries in 20 mins, were gonna be grateful for the 5 subs rule it seems
		
Click to expand...

Next sub is going to have to be a 3 some though.


----------



## fundy (Jun 17, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Next sub is going to have to be a 3 some though.
		
Click to expand...

yeah didnt think of that. So if you get another injury do you make 3 subs lol


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 17, 2020)

The Hawkeye apology is a bit lame https://www.skysports.com/football/a-villa-vs-sheff-utd/report/408251


----------



## fundy (Jun 17, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The Hawkeye apology is a bit lame https://www.skysports.com/football/a-villa-vs-sheff-utd/report/408251

Click to expand...

just a poor lie to cover up they forgot to turn it on imho


----------



## dronfield (Jun 17, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			The way the players and Oliver were talking I was thinking they might actually just do something ...

Alas no morals in football
		
Click to expand...

I accept that as a Blade I am biased, but could someone please explain that even allowing for Hawkeye not working, why did VAR not intervene?


----------



## fundy (Jun 17, 2020)

2 more weeks and off you go sideshow


----------



## USER1999 (Jun 17, 2020)

Yep, Sideshow Bob does it again. Please don't exercise the contract extension. He has cost enough already.


----------



## Slime (Jun 17, 2020)

Luiz has certainly not lost any of his ability during lockdown.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 17, 2020)

Shocking defending. Time to call it a day and can't see him getting an extension. Think Arteta will want to start building for the future and can't see how he'll fit in especially longer term


----------



## Papas1982 (Jun 17, 2020)

dronfield said:



			I accept that as a Blade I am biased, but could someone please explain that even allowing for Hawkeye not working, why did VAR not intervene?
		
Click to expand...

Because that’s what Hawkeye is for. They (Var) wouldn’t even look at it. Hawkeye doesn’t say goal, so no goal.
 Now clearly it failing this time is harsh on you guys, but as it’s generally fool proof I don’t think goal line is considered by var.


----------



## dronfield (Jun 17, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Because that’s what Hawkeye is for. They (Var) wouldn’t even look at it. Hawkeye doesn’t say goal, so no goal.
Now clearly it failing this time is harsh on you guys, but as it’s generally fool proof I don’t think goal line is considered by var.
		
Click to expand...

At H/T SKY pundits advised that as the Villa goalie threw the ball out, the particular phase of play was still active & so VAR could/should have intervened. But no-one has since provided an update as to why this did not happen.

Clearly at the time, the ref didn't realise that Hawkeye was not working & so had no reason to question ball crossing line - VAR could clearly see an error had been made & imo should have got involved. We have had plenty of instances this season where games have been held up for 5 mins pending VAR decision - in this case that would have been settled in less than a minute.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 17, 2020)

David Luiz hasn't changed then, it's like we've never been away.  

Be nice if it stayed like this, anything to stop Liverpool winning it at our place on Sunday. Would like Mahrez to bag a goal though, stuck him in the Fantasy team given he's got 2 games this gameweek.


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 17, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Because that’s what Hawkeye is for. They (Var) wouldn’t even look at it. Hawkeye doesn’t say goal, so no goal.
Now clearly it failing this time is harsh on you guys, but as it’s generally fool proof I don’t think goal line is considered by var.
		
Click to expand...

100% correct, the ref waits for the buzz, if he doesn't get it, no goal. Doesn't need to go to VAR as the system is (or was) foolproof.


----------



## fundy (Jun 17, 2020)

and that better be the last we see of the clown


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 17, 2020)

Now he's been sent off as well. What an evening he's having. Left out of the initial XI, makes a mistake that leads to the first goal, now gives away a pen and gets sent off. Classic David Luiz.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jun 17, 2020)

dronfield said:



			At H/T SKY pundits advised that as the Villa goalie threw the ball out, the particular phase of play was still active & so VAR could/should have intervened. But no-one has since provided an update as to why this did not happen.

Clearly at the time, the ref didn't realise that Hawkeye was not working & so had no reason to question ball crossing line - VAR could clearly see an error had been made & imo should have got involved. We have had plenty of instances this season where games have been held up for 5 mins pending VAR decision - in this case that would have been settled in less than a minute.
		
Click to expand...

I can't see any thing that says VAR will be used for goal line decisons.

Theres a list of things it's used for. And that's not in there mate.

edit. Var will be used once a goal has been awarded to determine if it should stand. So, as no goal was awarded, var can’t deem it a goal or not.
as to the pundits, they’ve got air time to fill and stoking the controversy helps.


----------



## fundy (Jun 17, 2020)

how does Sterling not even get yellow for that?


----------



## Wolf (Jun 17, 2020)

Normal service resumed for us tonight then, glad o had a zoom meeting rather than watching this from the start


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 17, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



 Now he's been sent off as well. What an evening he's having. Left out of the initial XI, makes a mistake that leads to the first goal, now gives away a pen and gets sent off. Classic David Luiz.
		
Click to expand...

Think that's the ultimate demonstration of having a shocker


----------



## fundy (Jun 17, 2020)

any truth in the rumour that Brighton have appealed Luiz red card so that he can play the weekend?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 17, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



 Now he's been sent off as well. What an evening he's having. Left out of the initial XI, makes a mistake that leads to the first goal, now gives away a pen and gets sent off. Classic David Luiz.
		
Click to expand...

First contact was outside the box so a bit unlucky for me.
He has never been a good defender imo.
But he keeps playing him there, he’s better in midfield where his mistakes are not as costly.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 17, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			David Luiz hasn't changed then, it's like we've never been away. 

Be nice if it stayed like this, anything to stop Liverpool winning it at our place on Sunday. Would like Mahrez to bag a goal though, stuck him in the Fantasy team given he's got 2 games this gameweek.
		
Click to expand...

I hope it does to.
I want us to win it at Anfield nowhere else.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 17, 2020)

fundy said:



			how does Sterling not even get yellow for that?
		
Click to expand...

A “strikers challenge” they get away with it.
If a defender does that he’s off.


----------



## fundy (Jun 17, 2020)

fingers crossed thats not as bad as it looks


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 17, 2020)

I hope Eric Garcia's okay after that, did not look good at all. Absolutely flattened him.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 17, 2020)

Kyle Walker's looked really sharp, he's been excellent tonight, maybe feeling like he had something to prove after his lockdown shenanigans.


----------



## fundy (Jun 17, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Kyle Walker's looked really sharp, he's been excellent tonight, maybe feeling like he had something to prove after his lockdown shenanigans.
		
Click to expand...

looked comfy in his armchair lol


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jun 17, 2020)

Have Man City announced that the attendance was 55000 yet?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 18, 2020)

Chelsea look to have signed a quality player in Werner,his style of play should suit the Prem.
Seen a bit of sour grapes from other fans because he didn’t choose them 😂😂


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 19, 2020)

Drinks breaks, mmmmmmmmmmmm🤔. Surely not needed in current temps.


----------



## fundy (Jun 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Drinks breaks, mmmmmmmmmmmm🤔. Surely not needed in current temps.
		
Click to expand...


been agreed for all games being played over summer so consistent, cant see much wrong with that

unlike Maguires turning circle (stilll a few steps up from our CBs) or De Geas weak wrists


----------



## Dando (Jun 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			been agreed for all games being played over summer so consistent, cant see much wrong with that

unlike Maguires turning circle (stilll a few steps up from our CBs) or De Geas weak wrists 

Click to expand...

Maguire looked like he was towing a caravan


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Drinks breaks, mmmmmmmmmmmm🤔. Surely not needed in current temps.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah that was farcical. Making it seem even more like a training match when it already had the pace and atmosphere of one.


----------



## fundy (Jun 19, 2020)

Dando said:



			Maguire looked like he was towing a caravan
		
Click to expand...

can we get one for sideshow bob please


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 19, 2020)

It's a poor game so far. We've nicked a goal out of nothing so can't complain. Such a slow pace, but to be expected maybe. Lamela has been key for us, I really like him when he's fit and playing like this. He's a really good defensive attacking midfielder if that makes sense. Gives us a bit of extra steel and holds onto the ball well. Shame about his barnet.

De Gea was poor on the goal. He really seems to be bang average these days.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			been agreed for all games being played over summer so consistent, cant see much wrong with that

unlike Maguires turning circle (stilll a few steps up from our CBs) or De Geas weak wrists 

Click to expand...

Consistent but unnecessary, it breaks the flow of a game. If temps get above a certain level that's fine but at the moment the games are being played in April style conditions. It was the same on Wednesday as well, I'm not just picking on tonight's game. 

De Gea really isn't the keeper he was a couple of years ago. I'm pleased in one way but equally it is not comfortable to see.


----------



## The Autumn Wind (Jun 19, 2020)

There’s all the bland tv pundits. And then there’s Roy Keane. Wow 😮


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 19, 2020)

Roy Keane is having an absolute blinder at half time 😂. So funny watching him in this mood. Evra laughing just makes it better.

Whilst it's great TV he is proving why management was not for him.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 19, 2020)

That rant from Roy Keane was absolutely incredible. I've missed him. I think he plays himself as a character a bit, but man he is funny. "I wouldn't let De Gea and Maguire on the bus - get a taxi!"   "That's not a great save. I'd save that." Brilliant.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 19, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			That rant from Roy Keane was absolutely incredible. I've missed him. I think he plays himself as a character a bit, but man he is funny. "I wouldn't let De Gea and Maguire on the bus - get a taxi!"   "That's not a great save. I'd save that." Brilliant.
		
Click to expand...

If they do a highlight package of the game that has to be included 😁. 

How lamela not been booked by the way? Very generous of the ref towards him.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If they do a highlight package of the game that has to be included 😁.

How lamela not been booked by the way? Very generous of the ref towards him.
		
Click to expand...

Jon Moss is often more lenient than most. I think Lamela gets away with the odd one as well because he's an attacker and maybe not everyone realises what an absolute s***house he is.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jun 19, 2020)

How come they all (well mostly) have got fresh haircuts.

So Winks looks like his Mum may have done it but the others? They should all look like Bernardo Silva does - wild!!


----------



## fundy (Jun 19, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			How come they all (well mostly) have got fresh haircuts.

So Winks looks like his Mum may have done it but the others? They should all look like Bernardo Silva does - wild!!
		
Click to expand...


this might be the only time i cant criticise Luiz, definitely didnt look like anyone had touched his barnet lol


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 19, 2020)

Embarrassing defending that. Pogba made Dier look a right mug.


----------



## pendodave (Jun 19, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Jon Moss is often more lenient than most. I think Lamela gets away with the odd one as well because he's an attacker and maybe not everyone realises what an absolute s***house he is.
		
Click to expand...

 Jon moss is just a really, really **** ref. My heart sinks if he does a game I'm interested In, or worse still, attending.


----------



## fundy (Jun 19, 2020)

Eric Dier with his best Luiz impression lol


----------



## Slime (Jun 19, 2020)




----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 19, 2020)

Pogba's absolutely class, to look this good after not playing for so long. Has to start moving forward, has changed the game since he game on. Him and Fernandes is one hell of a combination. Think United look strong going into the finish of the season if they can keep Fernandes, Pogba, Rashford and Martial fit.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 19, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Embarrassing defending that. Pogba made Dier look a right mug.
		
Click to expand...

Yes he did .
Was Aldervireld fit ?
He should have been on second half.


----------



## pendodave (Jun 19, 2020)

Slime said:



View attachment 31311

Click to expand...

A late equaliser against spurs? You hate to see it...


----------



## Rlburnside (Jun 19, 2020)

Fed up with Mourinhos tactics, to try and defend one goal lead and sit back and give all the possession away was always going to backfire. 

Frustrating to watch , not much between the sides when Spurs pushed forward.


----------



## fundy (Jun 19, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			Fed up with Mourinhos tactics, to try and defend one goal lead and sit back and give all the possession away was always going to backfire.

Frustrating to watch , not much between the sides when Spurs pushed forward.
		
Click to expand...


lol you were fed up with his tactics the day he signed the contract  

sadly this is about the only small light there is as an arsenal fan currently


----------



## Rlburnside (Jun 20, 2020)

fundy said:



			lol you were fed up with his tactics the day he signed the contract  

sadly this is about the only small light there is as an arsenal fan currently 

Click to expand...

Yea it was never going to work out well☹️


----------



## fundy (Jun 20, 2020)

Looks a nasty injury to Leno that  thats 3 players down inside 1 1/2 games


----------



## Wolf (Jun 20, 2020)

Our injury woes continue, with Leno going off with what looks like could be a long term injury. Been our only real stand out player all season.


----------



## Wolf (Jun 20, 2020)

fundy said:



			Looks a nasty injury to Leno that  thats 3 players down inside 1 1/2 games 

Click to expand...

Just beat me to it... Doesn't look good, if not for him our season would've been much worse already.


----------



## Wolf (Jun 20, 2020)

Ceballos has been an absolute passenger in this totally unexciting game so far, he doesn't even seem up to pre season pace.


----------



## fundy (Jun 20, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Ceballos has been an absolute passenger in this totally unexciting game so far, he doesn't even seem up to pre season pace.
		
Click to expand...


yet been more involved than doozi, lacazette, pepe playing in not his preferred role

lets be honest bar Saka weve been pretty poor and yet we still think we can afford to waste Aubam out wide


----------



## Wolf (Jun 20, 2020)

fundy said:



			yet been more involved than doozi, lacazette, pepe playing in not his preferred role

lets be honest bar Saka weve been pretty poor and yet we still think we can afford to waste Aubam out wide 

Click to expand...

I'd say Doozi has been better than Ceballos, Doozi is playing deeper and has at least made some challenges and kept it simple. 

Pepe no words, yet again runs with his head down into a corner and loses possession. Laca doesn't do much to lead the line. Saka agreed only player that seems to have a spark or want to change the game.. Its been a borefest so far.


----------



## fundy (Jun 20, 2020)

hows that not a yellow for Bissouma


----------



## fundy (Jun 20, 2020)

can tell how bad we are, im almost wanting Ozil on in midfield lol


----------



## fundy (Jun 20, 2020)

finally


----------



## Wolf (Jun 20, 2020)

Does nothing all game then Pepe goes and scores a peach


----------



## fundy (Jun 20, 2020)

how soft is that, cant defend wont defend


----------



## Wolf (Jun 20, 2020)

Normal defensive service resumes 😒


----------



## fundy (Jun 20, 2020)

just lol


----------



## Wolf (Jun 20, 2020)

And so it happens again 😒


----------



## BrianM (Jun 20, 2020)

Arsenal 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 20, 2020)

FamTV will be lively 😉


----------



## Fish (Jun 20, 2020)

I had a little foursome flutter, Leicester, Brighton, Wolves & Palace, Cant believe Leicester let Watford score in 90+3 after scoring themselves in 90mins. 

I’ll be gutted if all the others come in.


----------



## Captainron (Jun 20, 2020)

Why are there stadium announcers?? Who the hell is there to listen to it? 

Also. The crowds add to the game for sure. Without crowds these guys look like bang average Sunday league teams who have been on diet


----------



## arnieboy (Jun 20, 2020)

Great cut out figures at the Amex today.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 20, 2020)

Captainron said:



			Why are there stadium announcers?? Who the hell is there to listen to it?

Also. The crowds add to the game for sure. Without crowds these guys look like bang average Sunday league teams who have been on diet
		
Click to expand...

I was wondering exactly the same thing about the  announcers.

They  are even using the countdown to kickoff tracks. And all the emphasis and intonation for substitutions etc;

Ridiculous!


----------



## Norrin Radd (Jun 20, 2020)

arnieboy said:



			Great cut out figures at the Amex today.
		
Click to expand...

and a great result


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 20, 2020)

Really struggling to watch with the crowd noise on. Just find it irritating and waste of time so gone to the "normal" player only noise. Palace off to a flyer. I've had a mare with my predictions


----------



## hairball_89 (Jun 20, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Really struggling to watch with the crowd noise on. Just find it irritating and waste of time so gone to the "normal" player only noise. Palace off to a flyer. I've had a mare with my predictions
		
Click to expand...

I much prefer the player / coach shouting and generic ambient noise. One of the things I like about going to the local non-league games and the women's football is the ability to hear the players and coaches communicate. 

Obviously a bit harder via pitch side mics etc. But I love it! Far better than "piped" crowd noise, even if professionally I love the way it's done!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 20, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			I much prefer the player / coach shouting and generic ambient noise. One of the things I like about going to the local non-league games and the women's football is the ability to hear the players and coaches communicate.

Obviously a bit harder via pitch side mics etc. But I love it! Far better than "piped" crowd noise, even if professionally I love the way it's done!
		
Click to expand...

I use to love going to places like Plough Lane when Wimbledon were non-league and when they came up and sit in the stand just behind the dugouts and listen to the managers. Also loved watching goalkeepers close up (front of the terrace) and study how they positioned themselves and how they marshalled their defence


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 21, 2020)

Did anyone else feel the ground shake? Joelinton scored for Newcastle 😳😃. We really do live in strange times.


----------



## fundy (Jun 21, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Did anyone else feel the ground shake? Joelinton scored for Newcastle 😳😃. We really do live in strange times.
		
Click to expand...


was like Sheff Utd turned into Arsenal at half time!


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 21, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274766204406763525
😂😂😂


----------



## Old Skier (Jun 21, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274766204406763525
😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Mistakenly thought he was there to play football


----------



## Jensen (Jun 21, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Did anyone else feel the ground shake? Joelinton scored for Newcastle 😳😃. We really do live in strange times.
		
Click to expand...

What about his mis-hit 🙄


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 21, 2020)

Jensen said:



			What about his mis-hit 🙄
		
Click to expand...

I think that was the real joelinton 😄. 

He is nowhere near PL level in any aspect of his game.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 21, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Mistakenly thought he was there to play football
		
Click to expand...

Silly him right?
As if playing in empty stadiums isn’t enough.


----------



## hairball_89 (Jun 21, 2020)

Well that was rubbish. We're gonna win the league whatever happened tonight. But what a waste of 2 hrs!


----------



## Fade and Die (Jun 22, 2020)

After watching this weeks games,I can honestly say,it was the most boring week of Football I have ever seen...
Without the fans,there isn't a product in my opinion.

No matter how Sky,Talksport,MotD dress it up,it is rubbish.
 No fans = No football


----------



## Papas1982 (Jun 22, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			After watching this weeks games,I can honestly say,it was the most boring week of Football I have ever seen...
Without the fans,there isn't a product in my opinion.

No matter how Sky,Talksport,MotD dress it up,it is rubbish.
*No fans = No football*

Click to expand...

Lower league footy does OK with minimal fans. I've even enjoyed watching Sunday league before. 
Of course us winning 3-0 may also have something to do with my enjoyment of it....


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 22, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			After watching this weeks games,I can honestly say,it was the most boring week of Football I have ever seen...
Without the fans,there isn't a product in my opinion.

No matter how Sky,Talksport,MotD dress it up,it is rubbish.
No fans = No football
		
Click to expand...

I'm with you on this. 

No atmosphere,  no edge, just like a practice game.

And as for the ludicrous "crowd" on TV. Pathetic!

The most I have managed to watch of any game has been 60 minutes before I have to get up and find something else to do.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 22, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			After watching this weeks games,I can honestly say,it was the most boring week of Football I have ever seen...
Without the fans,there isn't a product in my opinion.

No matter how Sky,Talksport,MotD dress it up,it is rubbish.
No fans = No football
		
Click to expand...

It was nothing to do with fans, all the teams just played rubbish. They were like pre-season warm-up games.


----------



## PaulS (Jun 22, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			After watching this weeks games,I can honestly say,it was the most boring week of Football I have ever seen...
Without the fans,there isn't a product in my opinion.

No matter how Sky,Talksport,MotD dress it up,it is rubbish.
No fans = No football
		
Click to expand...

Did your team lose by any chance


----------



## Deleted Member 1156 (Jun 22, 2020)

I would much rather have the current situation with 'piped' crowd noises etc than no football at all until possibly next year at the earliest.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 22, 2020)

drive4show said:



			I would much rather have the current situation with 'piped' crowd noises etc than no football at all until possibly next year at the earliest.
		
Click to expand...

I think that the quality of games will improve as teams adjust and the intensity picks up.

However,  I don't think that I will ever be able to put up with the phoney crowd noise.


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 22, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			It was nothing to do with fans, all the teams just played rubbish. They were like pre-season warm-up games.
		
Click to expand...

It's both, awful standard and zero atmosphere. I must have watched 15 minutes of it since the season restarted, just got no interest in the current format.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 22, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			It's both, awful standard and zero atmosphere. I must have watched 15 minutes of it since the season restarted, just got no interest in the current format.
		
Click to expand...

If the football was good I'd still enjoy it. Half the bits I've watched I've had the sound off anyway, as I've been on Zoom or something at the same time, so it makes no difference to me. There's just been a lack of energy though, understandable after the lay-off and I don't think they've had many friendlies to warm up with either. That said, even before all this happened most of us agreed it was already the poorest Premier League season in many, many years.


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 22, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			If the football was good I'd still enjoy it. Half the bits I've watched I've had the sound off anyway, as I've been on Zoom or something at the same time, so it makes no difference to me. There's just been a lack of energy though, understandable after the lay-off and I don't think they've had many friendlies to warm up with either. That said, even before all this happened most of us agreed it was already the poorest Premier League season in many, many years.
		
Click to expand...

It's just garbage as a whole 😁
Did anyone see the sky channel with the four people watching the Everton v Liverpool game, think one of them was the boxer Tony Bellew? Think that channel lasted about 25 seconds, what a pile of utter guff.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 22, 2020)

I'm watching games with the crowd noise on and I think they are doing a good job with it. Every so often we turn over to the match as it is and that is awful, completely soulless. There is a lot of rustiness out there, hopefully the games will improve.

One for Arsenal fans, what does Alex Iwobi bring to the table? I'm not basing everything on yesterday as it is unfair to judge against a Liverpool or City, but I just don't see what it is that he does. What is his role? 3/4 of the way through this season in a blue shirt and I am none the wiser.


----------



## Fade and Die (Jun 22, 2020)

PaulS said:



			Did your team lose by any chance
		
Click to expand...

They did but that’s not why I said what I said, I watched a few other games and they were just as dull, no passion whatsoever. If I enjoyed that level of action I would just walk over the park and watch some lads having a kickabout!


----------



## Fade and Die (Jun 22, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			It was nothing to do with fans, all the teams just played rubbish. They were like pre-season warm-up games.
		
Click to expand...

It’s everything to do with the fans not being there. If you was unlucky enough to watch West Ham Saturday you could see the level of effort was disgraceful. The crowd would have been on there case and got a bit extra out of them. Players feed off the atmosphere.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 22, 2020)

Leeds set up proper speakers, using a theatre group, to pipe crowd noise inside the ground. Did anyone see that? Did it work better? That at least might help the players with atmosphere.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 22, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			It’s everything to do with the fans not being there. If you was unlucky enough to watch West Ham Saturday you could see the level of effort was disgraceful. The crowd would have been on there case and got a bit extra out of them. Players feed off the atmosphere.
		
Click to expand...

You don't concede that any of it is down to match sharpness and fitness?


----------



## sunshine (Jun 22, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			I think that the quality of games will improve as teams adjust and the intensity picks up.

However,  I don't think that I will ever be able to put up with the phoney crowd noise.
		
Click to expand...

You don't have to listen to the fake crowd noise - it's optional


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 22, 2020)

sunshine said:



			You don't have to listen to the fake crowd noise - it's optional
		
Click to expand...

Only on Premier League games, no option for the Championship.


----------



## pendodave (Jun 22, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			It's both, awful standard and zero atmosphere. I must have watched 15 minutes of it since the season restarted, just got no interest in the current format.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed. I think its the best way to finish the season, but I've no interest in watching it. 
Not sure how much of that is down to WHU, but I'd like to think I'm a bit more broadminded than that.


----------



## Fade and Die (Jun 22, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			You don't concede that any of it is down to match sharpness and fitness?
		
Click to expand...

Time will tell.


----------



## fundy (Jun 22, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm watching games with the crowd noise on and I think they are doing a good job with it. Every so often we turn over to the match as it is and that is awful, completely soulless. There is a lot of rustiness out there, hopefully the games will improve.

*One for Arsenal fans, what does Alex Iwobi bring to the table*? I'm not basing everything on yesterday as it is unfair to judge against a Liverpool or City, but I just don't see what it is that he does. What is his role? 3/4 of the way through this season in a blue shirt and I am none the wiser.
		
Click to expand...

he brought about 30m to our table, about 29m too much


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 22, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			Well that was rubbish. We're gonna win the league whatever happened tonight. But what a waste of 2 hrs!
		
Click to expand...

Always a good result a draw .
Stops the stick in the city.
But was not a good watch.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			he brought about 30m to our table, about 29m too much 

Click to expand...

That is what I am thinking as well. I was not sure when we bought him but you have to trust the scouting team, director of football etc. I hoped they saw something in him that getting game time would bring out. I'm still trying to figure out what that is .


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 22, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That is what I am thinking as well. I was not sure when we bought him but you have to trust the scouting team, director of football etc. I hoped they saw something in him that getting game time would bring out. I'm still trying to figure out what that is .
		
Click to expand...

The tactics were never going to let the front men shine though.
You conceded possession far to much.
I think the fans would have made you push on a bit 
He may have got a bit more of the ball then.
In other games I have seen he looks ok but nothing special for that kind of money.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 22, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			The tactics were never going to let the front men shine though.
You conceded possession far to much.
I think the fans would have made you push on a bit
He may have got a bit more of the ball then.
In other games I have seen he looks ok but nothing special for that kind of money.
		
Click to expand...

I am not judging his time at Everton on one game against Liverpool, that would be unfair. I suppose yesterday just confirmed what I had seen previously. Perhaps my expectations were too high. I though we might see a potential Zaha, another Richarlison, but I am not getting any vibe along those lines.

Yesterday was an Italian set up, a Jose set up. Be organised, stifle, try to pinch a goal. It very nearly worked. Pickford had little to do, it was mostly in front of him, Allison was the one who had to make the key saves. Saying all that, I hope I don't have to watch a similar style of game for the rest of the season. It was a set up for that match, this season, not what we want going forward. 

As you said earlier, we can probably both breathe easier now.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 22, 2020)

I've always thought Iwobi worked best as a #10, but given Carlo likes to play a 4-4-2 with DCL and Richarlison up top it seems unlikely that Iwobi's going to get a game there. I just don't see him being an effective threat on the wing, but would rather watch him than Walcott.


----------



## fundy (Jun 22, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			I've always thought Iwobi worked best as a #10, but given Carlo likes to play a 4-4-2 with DCL and Richarlison up top it seems unlikely that Iwobi's going to get a game there. I just don't see him being an effective threat on the wing, but would rather watch him than Walcott.
		
Click to expand...


on the basis of how bad he is in front of goal, why would you want to play him as a 10?


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			on the basis of how bad he is in front of goal, why would you want to play him as a 10?
		
Click to expand...

That's what you do with wingers who can't beat a full back.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			on the basis of how bad he is in front of goal, why would you want to play him as a 10?
		
Click to expand...

His passing and dribbling's decent, he works hard, he's not slow but doesn't have the raw pace to be super effective on the wing. I think his attributes are better suited to him playing behind the striker in a supporting/creative attacking midfield role rather than on the wing. I wouldn't change the system to use him there at Everton though, I think we're better with the 2 up top 4-4-2, I just think that's Iwobi's most effective role. 

I don't think he was a good signing at all having watched more of him, not good enough to be effective from the wing and doesn't fit the 4-4-2 system. Would have been better off keeping Lookman.


----------



## Wolf (Jun 22, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm watching games with the crowd noise on and I think they are doing a good job with it. Every so often we turn over to the match as it is and that is awful, completely soulless. There is a lot of rustiness out there, hopefully the games will improve.

*One for Arsenal fans, what does Alex Iwobi bring to the table?* I'm not basing everything on yesterday as it is unfair to judge against a Liverpool or City, but I just don't see what it is that he does. What is his role? 3/4 of the way through this season in a blue shirt and I am none the wiser.
		
Click to expand...

He brings nothing except the odd shirt sale to Nigerian supporters.

He is absolute garbage, the day you bought him from us we all celebrated. Sadly for you guys, you paid 30m to much for him. Even against lower league sides I've never seen him have a decent game. The fact you have both him and Walcott from us was the cleverest bit of business we did in a long time. Both overrated players.


----------



## Bazzatron (Jun 22, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			If the football was good I'd still enjoy it. Half the bits I've watched I've had the sound off anyway, as I've been on Zoom or something at the same time, so it makes no difference to me. There's just been a lack of energy though, understandable after the lay-off and I don't think they've had many friendlies to warm up with either. *That said, even before all this happened most of us agreed it was already the poorest Premier League season in many, many years.*

Click to expand...

Not for me, loved it and glad it's being finished instead of just being cast aside.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jun 22, 2020)

Wolf said:



			He brings nothing except the odd shirt sale to Nigerian supporters.

He is absolute garbage, the day you bought him from us we all celebrated. Sadly for you guys, you paid 30m to much for him. Even against lower league sides I've never seen him have a decent game. The fact you have both him and Walcott from us was the cleverest bit of business we did in a long time. *Both overrated players.*

Click to expand...

i genuinely feel for Walcott. Having seen him at a young age he certainly had the talent. Wengers ego ruined him, trying to make the next Henry.


----------



## fundy (Jun 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			have to say Iwobi looks good in the blue of Everton (well in any club shirt thats not Arsenals really  )
		
Click to expand...

this



Dan2501 said:



			I like him  Honestly, have been pretty impressed with him so far, was lively at the weekend and has been excellent tonight. I like him on early form.
		
Click to expand...

oops



fundy said:



			Im pleased for you   I really am. He does lively well, less so quality. But hey hes scored a winner in the cup, maybe we get an add on for that (surely we didnt set the bar too high)
		
Click to expand...


and this


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 22, 2020)

Wolf said:



			He brings nothing except the odd shirt sale to Nigerian supporters.

He is absolute garbage, the day you bought him from us we all celebrated. Sadly for you guys, you paid 30m to much for him. Even against lower league sides I've never seen him have a decent game. The fact you have both him and Walcott from us was the cleverest bit of business we did in a long time. Both overrated players.
		
Click to expand...

I feared this was the case 😭. 

Theo's contract must be up soon. I can't believe we will offer him another. A couple of years over in the MLS would suit him at this point I think.

Edit: just checked, he has another year to go.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 22, 2020)

Yeah, early transfer optimism very quickly dissipated  To be fair, it was still August, and he had just scored in his first start. Went swiftly downhill from there and become obvious he doesn't really fit our system.


----------



## Slime (Jun 22, 2020)

Beezerk said:



*It's both awful standard and zero atmosphere.* I must have watched 15 minutes of it since the season restarted, just got no interest in the current format.
		
Click to expand...

Wow, you got that from just 15 minutes of viewing?


----------



## Wolf (Jun 22, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I feared this was the case 😭.

Theo's contract must be up soon. I can't believe we will offer him another. A couple of years over in the MLS would suit him at this point I think.

Edit: just checked, he has another year to go.
		
Click to expand...

Walcott is so overrated never delivered on what was meant to be a lot of promise. Unbelievably one dimensional player as well, as winger he is diabolical when it comes to final ball. As a striker he'd be lucky to hit double figures in the best of teams. I'd probably say Iwobi is slightly better than Walcott but that's not saying much.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 22, 2020)

Merson has definitely pressed Mourinho's buttons https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53140190


----------



## fundy (Jun 22, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Walcott is so overrated never delivered on what was meant to be a lot of promise. Unbelievably one dimensional player as well, as winger he is diabolical when it comes to final ball. As a striker he'd be lucky to hit double figures in the best of teams. I'd probably say Iwobi is slightly better than Walcott but that's not saying much.
		
Click to expand...

and yet Iwobi still not fit to lace Theos boots!!!!!


----------



## Wolf (Jun 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			and yet Iwobi still not fit to lace Theos boots!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

That's irony of it, they're as garbage as each other but at least Iwobi got that cup final goal.  Sadly can't even say we're well shot if either player as we've replaced them with Pepe 😂


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 22, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Walcott is so overrated never delivered on what was meant to be a lot of promise. Unbelievably one dimensional player as well, as winger he is diabolical when it comes to final ball. As a striker he'd be lucky to hit double figures in the best of teams. I'd probably say Iwobi is slightly better than Walcott but that's not saying much.
		
Click to expand...

Walcott can be superb in a game and then disappear for the next 2 or 3. He lacks consistency. He definitely has attributes but we don't see them often enough. Perhaps our expectations of him are too high. 

At the moment I don't see Iwobi as being better. Walcott at least contributes at times, scores, sets up goals, unnerves defenders. Not often enough but certainly at times. I haven't seen any of that so far from Iwobi.


----------



## fundy (Jun 22, 2020)

Wolf said:



			That's irony of it, they're as garbage as each other but at least Iwobi got that cup final goal.  Sadly can't even say we're well shot if either player as we've replaced them with Pepe 😂
		
Click to expand...

best 70m dead ball specialist ive seen for a while


----------



## Wolf (Jun 22, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Walcott can be superb in a game and then disappear for the next 2 or 3. He lacks consistency. He definitely has attributes but we don't see them often enough. Perhaps our expectations of him are too high.

At the moment I don't see Iwobi as being better. Walcott at least contributes at times, scores, sets up goals, unnerves defenders. Not often enough but certainly at times. I haven't seen any of that so far from Iwobi.
		
Click to expand...

I'd disagree I don't think Walcott does unnerve defenders, at least not anymore he's unbelievably one dimensional as a footballer. Iwobi is not great but he has a little more trickery about him than Walcott but their stats for last 2 years are unbelievably similar, without looking it up i think Walcott has 1 more goal, but Iwobi has 2 more assists. You've essentially signed the same player twice 😂

But I think Carlo may get more from Iwobi long term than he could Theo, just my opinion of course.


----------



## Wolf (Jun 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			best 70m dead ball specialist ive seen for a while 

Click to expand...

TBH I think the potential is there for Pepe as there have been some flashes of it, but its been a bigger adjustment to EPL than he probably imagined.


----------



## fundy (Jun 22, 2020)

Wolf said:



			I'd disagree I don't think Walcott does unnerve defenders, at least not anymore he's unbelievably one dimensional as a footballer. Iwobi isnot great but he has a little more trickery about him than Walcott but their stats for last 2 years are unbelievably similar, without looking it up i think Walcott has 1 more goal, but Iwobi has 2 more assists. You've essentially signed the same player twice 😂

But I think Carlo may get more from Iwobi long term than he could Theo, just my opinion of course.
		
Click to expand...

Walcotts 7 or 8 years older now?

Give me 24 year old Theo over 24 year old Iwobi every day of the week and twice on Saturday lol


----------



## fundy (Jun 22, 2020)

Wolf said:



			TBH I think the potential is there for Pepe as there have been some flashes of it, but its been a bigger adjustment to EPL than he probably imagined.
		
Click to expand...

Wont be at Arsenal I dont expect, will never live up to the ridiculous price tag sadly. Pretty sure every club knows how to defend against him in open play already


----------



## Wolf (Jun 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			Walcotts 7 or 8 years older now?

Give me 24 year old Theo over 24 year old Iwobi every day of the week and twice on Saturday lol
		
Click to expand...

You're right there, plenty of years of underachieving ahead for him again at that age.  He had plenty of promise but he never really developed. 



fundy said:



			Wont be at Arsenal I dont expect, will never live up to the ridiculous price tag sadly. Pretty sure every club knows how to defend against him in open play already
		
Click to expand...

I'd agree with you there. He is unbelievably easy to defend against, show him down the line and he's out of the game. 

Our squad at the moment is dire so many players signed that are to easy to play against


----------



## fundy (Jun 22, 2020)

Wolf said:



			You're right there, plenty of years of underachieving ahead for him again at that age.  He had plenty of promise but he never really developed.


I'd agree with you there. He is unbelievably easy to defend against, show him down the line and he's out of the game.

Our squad at the moment is dire so many players signed that are to easy to play against
		
Click to expand...

Players I rate at Arsenal:
Aubameyang (contract situ means he probably leaves in the summer)
Leno (how bads the injury)
Saka (another screwed up contract situ)
Torreira (albeit seems to be leaving)
Martinelli (albeit Id take a silly offer if one arose)
Saliba (please be that weve finally bought a proper defender)

Players that should be cashed in on:
Lacazette
Guendoozi

Players that should be removed from the wage bill if at all possible (i hesitate to say sold as wont get anything for most of them):
Ozil
Mustafi
Sokratis
Kolasinac
Bellerin
Xhaka
Chambers
Luiz
Ceballos
Mhikitaryan
Elneny

Youngsters/Still to prove:
Pepe (with a ludicrous price tag round his neck)
Tierney (another whos destined to live in the treatment room?)
Soares (another injury prone?)
Mari (another injury prone?)
Smith Rowe
Willock
Mavropanos
Maitlin Niles
Nketiah
Nelson

Pretty sure there would have been some huge changes in personnel this summer IF the last 3 mths hadnt happened, expect we just get the usual window dressing now and most of the above named are still there next year


----------



## Swingalot (Jun 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			Players I rate at Arsenal:
Aubameyang (contract situ means he probably leaves in the summer)
Leno (how bads the injury)
Saka (another screwed up contract situ)
Torreira (albeit seems to be leaving)
Martinelli (albeit Id take a silly offer if one arose)
Saliba (please be that weve finally bought a proper defender)

Players that should be cashed in on:
Lacazette
Guendoozi

Players that should be removed from the wage bill if at all possible (i hesitate to say sold as wont get anything for most of them):
Ozil
Mustafi
Sokratis
Kolasinac
Bellerin
Xhaka
Chambers
Luiz
Ceballos
Mhikitaryan
Elneny

Youngsters/Still to prove:
Pepe (with a ludicrous price tag round his neck)
Tierney (another whos destined to live in the treatment room?)
Soares (another injury prone?)
Mari (another injury prone?)
Smith Rowe
Willock
Mavropanos
Maitlin Niles
Nketiah
Nelson

Pretty sure there would have been some huge changes in personnel this summer IF the last 3 mths hadnt happened, expect we just get the usual window dressing now and most of the above named are still there next year 

Click to expand...

I could have named most of the Arsenal squad 20 years ago, that is just a list of names of which I recognise a handful. Truly shocking recruitment over recent year's .


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jun 22, 2020)

Burnley captain Ben Mee's post match comments. 

Don't know how to post a link to a Twitter clip but fair play to him for addressing the elephant in the room before the reported brought it up.

EDIT - Does this work.....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1275176944716431360


----------



## Wolf (Jun 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			Players I rate at Arsenal:
Aubameyang (contract situ means he probably leaves in the summer)
Leno (how bads the injury)
Saka (another screwed up contract situ)
Torreira (albeit seems to be leaving)
Martinelli (albeit Id take a silly offer if one arose)
Saliba (please be that weve finally bought a proper defender)

Players that should be cashed in on:
Lacazette
Guendoozi

Players that should be removed from the wage bill if at all possible (i hesitate to say sold as wont get anything for most of them):
Ozil
Mustafi
Sokratis
Kolasinac
Bellerin
Xhaka
Chambers
Luiz
Ceballos
Mhikitaryan
Elneny

Youngsters/Still to prove:
Pepe (with a ludicrous price tag round his neck)
Tierney (another whos destined to live in the treatment room?)
Soares (another injury prone?)
Mari (another injury prone?)
Smith Rowe
Willock
Mavropanos
Maitlin Niles
Nketiah
Nelson

Pretty sure there would have been some huge changes in personnel this summer IF the last 3 mths hadnt happened, expect we just get the usual window dressing now and most of the above named are still there next year 

Click to expand...

I'd pretty much agree with all those individual lists. I'm resigned to fact Auba will be off after this boring end to the season. Same goes for Toreirra I think he'll move to Spain or back to Italy, shame because if we could get him fit with a decent midfield partner we'd have something good there. 

I think Tierney and Mari have the potential to be very good, if we could keep them both fit along with Saliba(please be good) + a new right back that understands how to defend then we may finally get at least a solid back 4 for once in front of Leno who I rate highly. Plus Mavropanos has looked good when I've seen him but need Arteta to be the coach who finally gives him a chance. 

I like what I've seen of Smith-Rowe, so hopefully we can get the likes of him firing along with Saka (sort his contract now please) Willock and Nketiah things will look up. But we still need to add some decent experience to that amount of youth but our cheque book seems to gather more mothballs than my deceased granddads suits...


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 23, 2020)

Morgan Schneiderlin has gone. Off to Nice. Another Steve Walsh signing bites the dust. Hopefully get rid of a few more this summer.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 23, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Morgan Schneiderlin has gone. Off to Nice. Another Steve Walsh signing bites the dust. Hopefully get rid of a few more this summer.
		
Click to expand...

There is a good bit of deadwood to get rid of, this is a good start. 

Our 1st XI, fully fit, is good but the depth is poor. Walsh came with so much promise, left with his reputation badly scarred.


----------



## SaintHacker (Jun 23, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Morgan Schneiderlin has gone. Off to Nice. Another Steve Walsh signing bites the dust. Hopefully get rid of a few more this summer.
		
Click to expand...

This makes me sad. Spiderman was a fantastic player for Southampton, unfortunately another who left chasing the big time only to see his career go backwards. That said he's one of a very few of that bunch of players I would gladly have back


----------



## Papas1982 (Jun 23, 2020)

SaintHacker said:



			This makes me sad. Spiderman was a fantastic player for Southampton, unfortunately another who left chasing the big time only to see his career go backwards. That said he's one of a very few of that bunch of players I would gladly have back
		
Click to expand...

I respected him for his last season with us. Clearly wanted ott but played as well as ever. Was treated shockingly at Utd considering the dross they had in midfield at the time. That time not playing really stifled his improvement.


----------



## Imurg (Jun 23, 2020)

Reports of Sideshow Bob signing another year's  deal...sorry to be the bearer of potential bad tidings.....


----------



## Wolf (Jun 23, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Reports of Sideshow Bob signing another year's  deal...sorry to be the bearer of potential bad tidings.....
		
Click to expand...

I'm seeing conflicting reports that the extension is the standard end of Covid-19 season, then others saying its a full year extension. I hope to god its not the full year🤡


----------



## fundy (Jun 23, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Reports of Sideshow Bob signing another year's  deal...sorry to be the bearer of potential bad tidings.....
		
Click to expand...

the really scary bit is he was trying to get 2 years more at the same wages!!!! arsenal rumoured to offered 1 year and much reduced wages


----------



## fundy (Jun 23, 2020)

Wolf said:



			I'm seeing conflicting reports that the extension is the standard end of Covid-19 season, then others saying its a full year extension. I hope to god its not the full year🤡
		
Click to expand...

sounds like it is, his agent has sanellha in the pocket


----------



## fundy (Jun 23, 2020)

David Ornstein reporting 1 year for the clown, 4 years for Mari and Soares

time to lower them expectations lol


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2020)

Well West Ham were poor and we were only slightly better. Three points and helping West Ham get relegated, can't complain. I am glad we scored a nice goal in the end, because to win just by that first goal would have been a touch embarrassing. What a gift that was.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Well West Ham were poor and we were only slightly better. Three points and helping West Ham get relegated, can't complain. I am glad we scored a nice goal in the end, because to win just by that first goal would have been a touch embarrassing. What a gift that was.
		
Click to expand...

Shouldn't have stood either. Letter of law


----------



## Wolf (Jun 23, 2020)

fundy said:



			sounds like it is, his agent has sanellha in the pocket 

Click to expand...

Sad state of affairs shows a total lack of ambition and that we're happy with mediocrity if that's the case.. 



fundy said:



			David Ornstein reporting 1 year for the clown, 4 years for Mari and Soares

time to lower them expectations lol
		
Click to expand...

Mari I'm happy with as I think he's decent and will work out better next season. Soares seen nothing of him been injured since we signed him so that doesn't bode well.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Shouldn't have stood either. Letter of law
		
Click to expand...

But everyone hates that rule anyway so what's the problem?  I couldn't really see it touch his arm on the replays, but everyone on the TV seemed to be in agreement that it did. It was worth it for Moyes ranting afterwards, that was hilarious.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 23, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			But everyone hates that rule anyway so what's the problem?  I couldn't really see it touch his arm on the replays, but everyone on the TV seemed to be in agreement that it did. It was worth it for Moyes ranting afterwards, that was hilarious.
		
Click to expand...

Prob cuz we have had 3 goals chalked out for that over the season and then this one stands 

Your fully correct the law is rubbish but doesn't mean it should be ignored


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Prob cuz we have had 3 goals chalked out for that over the season and then this one stands

Your fully correct the law is rubbish but doesn't mean it should be ignored
		
Click to expand...

Obviously they felt it wasn't clear and obvious that it struck his arm.

Amusingly, my friend told me that Sanchez has been given the assist in Fantasy League.


----------



## Wolf (Jun 24, 2020)

So the news reporting this morning we've now lost Martinelli through injury for at least rest of the season. Arteta quoted as saying he got a knock in training and has damaged his meniscus, if that's true it'll be more likely months out rather than weeks. Our injury list grows and highlights the total lack of squad depth.


----------



## Slime (Jun 24, 2020)

Wolf said:



			So the news reporting this morning we've now lost Martinelli through injury for at least rest of the season. Arteta quoted as saying he got a knock in training and has damaged his meniscus, if that's true it'll be more likely months out rather than weeks.* Our injury list grows and highlights the total lack of squad depth.*

Click to expand...

Add to that the fact that you're not mathematically safe from relegation .................................... worrying times.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 24, 2020)

It looks like David Luiz has got a new one year contract. Arsenal should just fully change their name to Banter FC. The other rumour I saw was them signing Joe Hart to cover for Leno.  I'm sure that won't happen - but then I was also sure that no one in their right mind would extend Luiz's contract.


----------



## Wolf (Jun 24, 2020)

Slime said:



			Add to that the fact that you're not mathematically safe from relegation .................................... worrying times.  

Click to expand...

Irony of it all is we have lost less games than Chelsea and only 1 more than City. We can't win a game though. 



Orikoru said:



			It looks like David Luiz has got a new one year contract. Arsenal should just fully change their name to Banter FC. The other rumour I saw was them signing Joe Hart to cover for Leno.  I'm sure that won't happen - but then I was also sure that no one in their right mind would extend Luiz's contract.
		
Click to expand...

If that happens change our name to Rejects Utd. Martinez for me is better than Hart so if that did happen may as well stick 2 fingers up to our back up keeper as well.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 24, 2020)

How many more of these pre season games are there before the league actually starts up again? 🤔


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 24, 2020)

Sheff Utd are dire at the moment, I think this is how people expected them to be when they came up! Absolutely nowhere near the energy levels that were getting them results. I'm wondering if their system just requires an intense level of fitness that they haven't reached yet?

Gotta love Trent scoring when I decided to make him captain on Fantasy this week.  With Zaha having gone off the clean sheet is already in the bag as well.


----------



## Slime (Jun 24, 2020)

United looking good, very good.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jun 24, 2020)

What do Liverpool fans think that Klopp will/should do once the title has been won? Should he go all out to break the records or rest his main players for next season and let the kids see out the rest of the season? And with Villa and Brighton to come, probably after the title has been won, would it be fair on the other teams down at the bottom if Liverpool play a weakened team?


----------



## fundy (Jun 24, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			What do Liverpool fans think that Klopp will/should do once the title has been won? Should he go all out to break the records or rest his main players for next season and let the kids see out the rest of the season? And with Villa and Brighton to come, probably after the title has been won, would it be fair on the other teams down at the bottom if Liverpool play a weakened team?
		
Click to expand...

be somewhere in between I expect, will rotate a few each game I expect whilst playing most of his best side in most games without being at full strength


----------



## davemc1 (Jun 24, 2020)

Brilliant from Liverpool. As good as it gets.

Expected more from Palace, shame about the Zaha injury, we made sure that ended whatever fight they brought tho.


----------



## hairball_89 (Jun 24, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			What do Liverpool fans think that Klopp will/should do once the title has been won? Should he go all out to break the records or rest his main players for next season and let the kids see out the rest of the season? And with Villa and Brighton to come, probably after the title has been won, would it be fair on the other teams down at the bottom if Liverpool play a weakened team?
		
Click to expand...

Honestly, I want the record. I want 107 points. I wanted 109 points ahead of the derby. 28 wins out of 31 would suggest it's possible. I expect Jurgen will take it one game at a time, he's more sensible than me and probably a better football manager. But then again it's that attitude that has led to 28/31! Once the City game is over, I expect to see some rotation - Elliot, Jones and Williams all getting games, as 2 of them did this evening and Minamino bedding in a touch more ahead of next season. My Mrs, a Brighton fan very much wants Jurgen to take the kids to the seaside!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 24, 2020)

Not sure 
Jurgen dosnt look interested in records.
He will just do what is best for next year.
Getting some game time for the young lads seems sensible.
I wonder if teams will park the bus so much if we do play some youngsters.
Might make it more of a game. 
Allison could have stayed at home tonight watched it on telly.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 24, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			What do Liverpool fans think that Klopp will/should do once the title has been won? Should he go all out to break the records or rest his main players for next season and let the kids see out the rest of the season? And with Villa and Brighton to come, probably after the title has been won, would it be fair on the other teams down at the bottom if Liverpool play a weakened team?
		
Click to expand...

I'm on for a few ££££ for liverpool to score 100pts or more so obviously I'd like that but I'd like us to smash Citys PL points record.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 24, 2020)

fundy said:



			be somewhere in between I expect, will rotate a few each game I expect whilst playing most of his best side in most games without being at full strength
		
Click to expand...

Getting closer to bet365 paying us out Steve, a nice bottle of fizz will be winging it's way down to Mudeford 😉🍾🍾


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jun 24, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm on for a few ££££ for liverpool to score 100pts or more so obviously I'd like that but I'd like us to smash Citys PL points record.
		
Click to expand...

86 points so far. You've got Villa, Brighton, Burnley and Arsenal so there's another 12 points to take you to 98. Just need to find another 3 points from Man City, Chelsea and Newcastle. And to be honest, even if you get nothing from Man City and Chelsea the 3 points on the last day of the season will be pretty much guaranteed from a Newcastle side with nothing to play for.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 24, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			86 points so far. You've got Villa, Brighton, Burnley and Arsenal so there's another 12 points to take you to 98. Just need to find another 3 points from Man City, Chelsea and Newcastle. And to be honest, even if you get nothing from Man City and Chelsea the 3 points on the last day of the season will be pretty much guaranteed from a Newcastle side with nothing to play for.
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully more but  I'll take that 😉🤞


----------



## Swingalot (Jun 24, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Brilliant from Liverpool. As good as it gets.

Expected more from Palace, shame about the Zaha injury, we made sure that ended whatever fight they brought tho.
		
Click to expand...

Totally outplayed us, which does not happen much these day's . Had to explain to #1 son that it was a common event when I was his age and that he was in fact spoilt in comparison watching Palace in this era. Don't think he appreciated my words of wisdom!


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 25, 2020)

Swingalot said:



			Totally outplayed us, which does not happen much these day's . Had to explain to #1 son that it was a common event when I was his age and that he was in fact spoilt in comparison watching Palace in this era. Don't think he appreciated my words of wisdom!
		
Click to expand...

Spoilt watching a Hodgson side? 😉


----------



## Swingalot (Jun 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Spoilt watching a Hodgson side? 😉
		
Click to expand...

I know, I know.

you have to remember, our bar is not set that high! A few years of Trevor Francis, Pulliis, Frank de beor and  Peter taylors football and this is like watching Brazil 😁


----------



## chrisd (Jun 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Spoilt watching a Hodgson side? 😉
		
Click to expand...

Lot of worse sides in the PL, we dont all have the money to buy the top players. It's a way we have to play to stay in the PL and we generally do it very well., personally I'd rather play that way and stay there over trying to play pretty football and getting picked off each week


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 25, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			What do Liverpool fans think that Klopp will/should do once the title has been won? Should he go all out to break the records or rest his main players for next season and let the kids see out the rest of the season? And with Villa and Brighton to come, probably after the title has been won, would it be fair on the other teams down at the bottom if Liverpool play a weakened team?
		
Click to expand...

Non liverpool fan but they have earned the right to play whatever team they like. They can do what is best for them, not what is best for Bournemouth or Villa.

Teams at the bottom can moan but they are there because of their own play. If liverpool put the kids, they have to be part of the nominated squad of course, out that's just tough, luck of the draw.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 25, 2020)

I'd argue that the Liverpool kids would be too good for the bottom sides anyway. Nothing wrong with resting a few players and that's why sides have decent sized squads. Great for Klopp too as he can see them in a PL game and how they handle the pressure and speed of play.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jun 25, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Non liverpool fan but they have earned the right to play whatever team they like. They can do what is best for them, not what is best for Bournemouth or Villa.

Teams at the bottom can moan but they are there because of their own play. If liverpool put the kids, they have to be part of the nominated squad of course, out that's just tough, luck of the draw.
		
Click to expand...

Isn’t it odd though, people moan about clubs not playing their “best” team, but then also moan we don’t bring enough youngsters through.
I imagine Klopp will do what is best for Liverpool both now and For the long term.


----------



## Jensen (Jun 25, 2020)

Reported apparently that N'dombele has told Mourinho he never wants to play for him again.
What a sensible lad 👍


----------



## Bazzatron (Jun 25, 2020)

I can just hear it if I strain my hearing, "the chaaaammmmpppiiioooonnnnsssssss......."


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 25, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			I can just hear it if I strain my hearing, "the chaaaammmmpppiiioooonnnnsssssss......."
		
Click to expand...

You may need a hearing test!
I could hear that at Christmas


----------



## Piece (Jun 25, 2020)

Have to say it, but Liverpool were brilliant last night. Four cracking goals and against a good CP side. Worthy Champions and by a distance.


----------



## USER1999 (Jun 25, 2020)

Mustafi is such a poor footballer. 11m in, and he is on a yellow because he can't control a football. 

How this guy got a World Cup winners medal beats me.


----------



## fundy (Jun 25, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Mustafi is such a poor footballer. 11m in, and he is on a yellow because he can't control a football.

How this guy got a World Cup winners medal beats me.
		
Click to expand...


i got the ball ref


----------



## fundy (Jun 25, 2020)

Pretty sure were safe now for the season


----------



## davemc1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Got a Man U, Wolves and Everton treble up yesterday. 

Done a smaller staked Burnley, Arsenal and City treble tonight....

What’s the worst that can happen?? 😃


----------



## Piece (Jun 25, 2020)

Wtf was that I just watched? That was non league at best


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jun 25, 2020)

come on city.


----------



## Fish (Jun 25, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			come on city.
		
Click to expand...

Any delay to the inevitable will be short lived, Villa game at worse. 

Thankfully I don’t look in that much anymore 😏


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 25, 2020)

City showing why they are second this year. Dominating the game, creating chances, not taking them, a piece of terrible defending. Very fine goal by Pulisic but Mendy 😱. 

Proper Rammell as a City fan who used to be on here might say 😆


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 25, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			City showing why they are second this year. Dominating the game, creating chances, not taking them, a piece of terrible defending. Very fine goal by Pulisic but Mendy 😱.

Proper Rammell as a City fan who used to be on here might say 😆
		
Click to expand...

Good finish as he still had a fair bit to do. City look a bit like Arsenal under Wenger and tippy tappy and looking to almost walk the ball into the net. They don't seem prepared to gamble (some great crosses with no-one prepared to gamble on a run into the six yard box)


----------



## Slime (Jun 25, 2020)

I just have to say congratulations to L'pool for what they've achieved in the EPL this season.
Thoroughly deserving and worthy winners.



*DON'T EVER DO IT AGAIN!!!!*


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 25, 2020)

The asterisk is ready *


----------



## fundy (Jun 25, 2020)

Congrats to all the Liverpool fans amongst us (Phil, Stu, Pete and any others) its been a long wait (not the last few mths  )

By far the best side, streets ahead of the rest including a City side that spreadeagled the league last year, enjoy your celebrations!!


As for you Chelsea fans its all your fault


----------



## Tashyboy (Jun 25, 2020)

Congrats to the Champs, thoroughly deserved and miles ahead of any other team this year. Look forward to seeing the guard of honour at the Etihad.


----------



## 3offTheTee (Jun 25, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Congrats to the Champs, thoroughly deserved and miles ahead of any other team this year. Look forward to seeing the guard of honour at the Etihad.
		
Click to expand...

Welcome Back- you have been missed and well said


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 25, 2020)

Well done Liverpool. By far and away the best side in the PL this season and richly deserved. Try not to leave it as long for the next one


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 25, 2020)

Breaking news, Liverpool win the league and no one cares 🤣
Seriously though, top team this year 👏


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jun 25, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Congrats to the Champs, thoroughly deserved and miles ahead of any other team this year. Look forward to seeing the guard of honour at the Etihad.
		
Click to expand...

Will they be allowed to do it with social distancing? I suppose as long as the Man City players line up in two lines 4m apart then Liverpool players can walk down the middle and still maintain it.

And (through gritted teeth) congratulations to Liverpool on winning the league. By far the best team and well deserved champions.

Obviously there will be an asterisk against your title win as the rules were changed half way through the season so it doesn't count as a "proper" title win but you carry on and enjoy it.


----------



## Bazzatron (Jun 25, 2020)

Congratulations Liverpool, thoroughly deserved. Joy to watch at times.


----------



## User62651 (Jun 25, 2020)

Good exciting game to watch tonight, well done Chelsea and City. Red card was a shame, sort of spoiled it as a contest.
Liverpool untouchable this season, monkey off their back at last. Well done them.
Hoping City can win ECL, certainly good enough.


----------



## davemc1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Congrats to the Champs, thoroughly deserved and miles ahead of any other team this year. Look forward to seeing the guard of honour at the Etihad.
		
Click to expand...

Classy 👍🏻


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 26, 2020)

🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Dando (Jun 26, 2020)




----------



## Orikoru (Jun 26, 2020)

Bit of an anticlimactic finish, I'm sure they would have liked to win it by beating City in the next game. Oh well, roll on next season. I suppose I can pretend I'm interested in the relegation battle for the next few weeks.


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 26, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Bit of an anticlimactic finish, I'm sure they would have liked to win it by beating City in the next game. Oh well, roll on next season. I suppose I can pretend I'm interested in the relegation battle for the next few weeks.
		
Click to expand...

Been the worst season in years for me as a neutral fan. Liverpool had the league sown up by Xmas so no fun there, standard of football in general in the bottom half has been beyond woeful.
Then the virus, long break, league comes back in a rather weird comical way when most other sports are cancelled. And Sheff Utd doing well has just topped it off 😡🤣


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 26, 2020)

Beezerk said:



*Been the worst season in years for me as a neutral fan.* Liverpool had the league sown up by Xmas so no fun there, standard of football in general in the bottom half has been beyond woeful.
Then the virus, long break, league comes back in a rather weird comical way when most other sports are cancelled. And Sheff Utd doing well has just topped it off 😡🤣
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, I wasn't going to say it again because I've said that a few times, but I agree wholeheartedly. Didn't even miss it while it was gone. You didn't even mention the clusterf*** that is VAR and the new handball rule.


----------



## Deleted Member 1156 (Jun 26, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			I suppose I can pretend I'm interested in the relegation battle for the next few weeks.
		
Click to expand...

I am!!


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 26, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Yeah, I wasn't going to say it again because I've said that a few times, but I agree wholeheartedly. Didn't even miss it while it was gone. You didn't even mention the clusterf*** that is VAR and the new handball rule. 

Click to expand...

Well at least last night VAR got the not terribly subtle handball by the City player right - though goodness knows why it took so long...


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 26, 2020)

LiVARpool Champions* has a much better tone than just champions.


----------



## Grant85 (Jun 26, 2020)

Fair play to Liverpool. They were by far the best team and have actually been the best team in the Klopp era overall, with only a huge effort from Man City last year stopping them, as well as exploits in Europe. 

At the moment, Liverpool have absolutely everything going correctly. Great manager, very smart squad with everyone working hard and feels like a decent wage structure rather than a few guys getting a lot more than others. And also good ambition in the boardroom. Of course you still need to turn up and win the games, which they have done very regularly. 

I look at other clubs and it seems absolutely crazy how they are run with bizarre personnel decisions and managers who are clearly not in control of the signing policy. Looking at Arsenal and Man U in particular. 

Arsenal seem to have done well to pick up some great young players, but they just don't get the most out of what should be a decent squad and the central defence is any two of 5 or 6 players who all have serious issues be that ability, concentration, fitness. Central midfield not dissimilar. Any club who is going to challenge needs robust and confident players in these positions. 

Man U I feel don't have a manager who is good enough to win trophies and is obviously undermined by the board (perhaps one of the reasons he is still there). They have had major issues with big wage players such as Pogba and Sanchez being a huge negative presence. Lingard going the same way and De Gea now looking a liability who they should have cashed in on years ago. 

Both clubs should be at least at the business end of the league running clubs close, but at the moment they look further away than Leicester or Wolves.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 26, 2020)

Grant85 said:



			Fair play to Liverpool. They were by far the best team and have actually been the best team in the Klopp era overall, with only a huge effort from Man City last year stopping them, as well as exploits in Europe.

At the moment, Liverpool have absolutely everything going correctly. Great manager, very smart squad with everyone working hard and feels like a decent wage structure rather than a few guys getting a lot more than others. And also good ambition in the boardroom. Of course you still need to turn up and win the games, which they have done very regularly.

I look at other clubs and it seems absolutely crazy how they are run with bizarre personnel decisions and managers who are clearly not in control of the signing policy. Looking at Arsenal and Man U in particular.

Arsenal seem to have done well to pick up some great young players, but they just don't get the most out of what should be a decent squad and the central defence is any two of 5 or 6 players who all have serious issues be that ability, concentration, fitness. Central midfield not dissimilar. Any club who is going to challenge needs robust and confident players in these positions.

Man U I feel don't have a manager who is good enough to win trophies and is obviously undermined by the board (perhaps one of the reasons he is still there). They have had major issues with big wage players such as Pogba and Sanchez being a huge negative presence. Lingard going the same way and De Gea now looking a liability who they should have cashed in on years ago.

Both clubs should be at least at the business end of the league running clubs close, but at the moment they look further away than Leicester or Wolves.
		
Click to expand...

Is that the same Man Utd that are on a 13 match unbeaten run? What you've said is true for them over the season as a whole, but there are signs they may have turned a corner. They're only a couple of players away from having a really top team there. In miles better shape than Arsenal anyway.


----------



## Grant85 (Jun 26, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Is that the same Man Utd that are on a 13 match unbeaten run? What you've said is true for them over the season as a whole, but there are signs they may have turned a corner. They're only a couple of players away from having a really top team there. In miles better shape than Arsenal anyway.
		
Click to expand...

A 13 match unbeaten run that includes a good few draws as well as cup fixtures against lesser teams? Hardly a team on the verge of greatness. 

Everyone is only a couple of top players away from being better, but time and time again Man U go into a summer transfer market and pay well over the odds for the wrong player. Do you think Liverpool and Man City aren't going to be trying to sign a couple of top players as well? Not to mention Chelsea, who might well have everything about to click. 

To win the league (probably harder to win than the Champions League at the moment) you need absolutely everything working in synergy. And that is not the case at Old Trafford. You could be looking at 90 points not being enough to win the league for quite a while and that is going to price out anyone who doesn't have absolutely everything lined up.


----------



## Wolf (Jun 26, 2020)

Grant85 said:



			Fair play to Liverpool. They were by far the best team and have actually been the best team in the Klopp era overall, with only a huge effort from Man City last year stopping them, as well as exploits in Europe.

At the moment, Liverpool have absolutely everything going correctly. Great manager, very smart squad with everyone working hard and feels like a decent wage structure rather than a few guys getting a lot more than others. And also good ambition in the boardroom. Of course you still need to turn up and win the games, which they have done very regularly.

I look at other clubs and it seems absolutely crazy how they are run with bizarre personnel decisions and managers who are clearly not in control of the signing policy. Looking at Arsenal and Man U in particular.

Arsenal seem to have done well to pick up some great young players, but they just *don't get the most out of what should be a decent squad* and the central defence is any two of 5 or 6 players who all have serious issues be that ability, concentration, fitness. Central midfield not dissimilar. Any club who is going to challenge needs robust and confident players in these positions.

Man U I feel don't have a manager who is good enough to win trophies and is obviously undermined by the board (perhaps one of the reasons he is still there). They have had major issues with big wage players such as Pogba and Sanchez being a huge negative presence. Lingard going the same way and De Gea now looking a liability who they should have cashed in on years ago.

Both clubs should be at least at the business end of the league running clubs close, but at the moment they look further away than Leicester or Wolves.
		
Click to expand...

You must be looking at and watching a different squad to every Arsenal fan I know. Our squad depth is absolutely dire, whilst we have a couple of gems in Saka, Martinelli, Nketiah and possibly Willock. We also have Ozil taking a wage that's crippling the squad and been ineffective for a couple of years, our defensive options are terrible. Mari has potential to be good, Soares been injured since we signed him, Tierney though decent spends more time on the treatment table than the pitch, Bellerin at RB has been a defensive liability for a couple of seasons and the rest of our CB don't do a lot defensively, Holding is ok but again lots of injuries.  As for our Midfield Torriera injured and likely to leave, Xhaka has actually been better recently but thats it. 

Aubamayang likely to leave and better he does when we can get money for him rather than free next seasons, then there's Lacazette less said the better for how many times he misses. 

Our squad is far from decent and needs major surgery, I fear we won't be competitive for at least another 5 years at top end of table and that's only if the owner opens his wallet.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 26, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Been the worst season in years for me as a neutral fan. Liverpool had the league sown up by Xmas so no fun there, standard of football in general in the bottom half has been beyond woeful.
Then the virus, long break, league comes back in a rather weird comical way when most other sports are cancelled. And Sheff Utd doing well has just topped it off 😡🤣
		
Click to expand...

Sheff been very very poor since the return.. second season syndrome hit early


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 26, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Sheff been very very poor since the return.. second season syndrome hit early
		
Click to expand...

Quite glad since we've got them next. Pre-lockdown form they would have smashed us easily. Now though I think we have a chance of a result there.


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 26, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Sheff been very very poor since the return.. second season syndrome hit early
		
Click to expand...

Let's hope so 🤞


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 26, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Sheff been very very poor since the return.. second season syndrome hit early
		
Click to expand...

I have enjoyed watching Shef We’d this season they have been great.
Let’s just hope it’s only a blip since the restart.

It’s great for the younger Liverpool fans to see the lads win the league.
My son is 32 and it’s his first prem win.
Brilliant from Liverpool and we deffo deserved to win it.
Pity we didn’t win it at Anfield Wednesday but that’s life.
Klopp has made a huge difference not in just football but in mentality and has created a winning attitude.
Let’s hope it continues for a long time.


----------



## Grant85 (Jun 26, 2020)

Wolf said:



			You must be looking at and watching a different squad to every Arsenal fan I know. Our squad depth is absolutely dire, whilst we have a couple of gems in Saka, Martinelli, Nketiah and possibly Willock. We also have Ozil taking a wage that's crippling the squad and been ineffective for a couple of years, our defensive options are terrible. Mari has potential to be good, Soares been injured since we signed him, Tierney though decent spends more time on the treatment table than the pitch, Bellerin at RB has been a defensive liability for a couple of seasons and the rest of our CB don't do a lot defensively, Holding is ok but again lots of injuries.  As for our Midfield Torriera injured and likely to leave, Xhaka has actually been better recently but thats it.

Aubamayang likely to leave and better he does when we can get money for him rather than free next seasons, then there's Lacazette less said the better for how many times he misses.

Our squad is far from decent and needs major surgery, I fear we won't be competitive for at least another 5 years at top end of table and that's only if the owner opens his wallet.
		
Click to expand...

I didn't say about the squad depth, but in terms of putting 11 or 13 players out every week, it's better than 9th in the league. Obviously shouldn't be losing to Olympiakos and Brighton etc. 

It's well away from challenging, but on paper should have been a lot closer to the champions league spots with 7 games to go. 

Unfortunately the only genuine quality player is Aubameyang. However 3 games post lockdown he has been out wide and we have not gotten enough out of him. Lacazette should be more productive, but seems out of favour. 

Torriera is a strange one. Looked like he could be the Defensive midfielder we were craving, but kept getting pushed forward by Emery. 
Xhaka - I don't share your view he's been much better or should be at the club next season. 

Only players I'd keep are; 
GK - Leno. 
no issue with Martinez as reserve keeper. Done well so far. 

CD - Holding. Not seen enough of Soares or Mari... but they are obviously staying now. 
Saliba will join from Saint Etienne. 
I assume they will give Mavropanos another run before deciding on him. 

FB - Bellerin and Tierney - potentially both very good in the correct set up, but maybe both are injury prone. Don't disagree about Bellerin and perhaps he has to be a wing back 3-5-2 or a wide player of a front 3. It seems no one is going to play 4-4-2 with traditional wingers. 

Midfield - Gueondozi, Willock, Saka. 
Maitland-Niles could come good playing centrally. 
Maybe Smith-Rowe will come back in. 
And I wouldn't give up on Torriera if he is played defensively, protecting the central defenders. 

Forwards - Aubameyang, Pepe, Martinelli, Nketia. 
I assume they'll keep Nelson, but not sure where his opportunities will be. 
Should require the least amount of surgery, but need to find personnel that allows Aubameyang to play centrally, especially if they are going to give him a big contract. 

Offload; Sokratis, Mustafi, Luiz, Kolasniac, Chambers, Xhaka, Ozil, Mkhitaryan. 

If Aubameyang and Lacazette both leave, then I'd say it's a rebuild. Give the young forwards game time and hopefully Pepe can get more goals. 
Is there much point in spending all the budget on a forward for a team who is heavily reliant on youngsters coming good, and probably another season away from knowing if they will or not? Would be better off buying a few more Martinellis and Guondozis rather than a trying to bring in a finished article from another league. 

Definitely need more bodies in midfield. A really robust, one dimensional defensive midfielder should be a priority (if they can't make Torriera that). Someone who can win the ball and offload right or left won't cost a lot and probably win several points just by being there. 

And 2 more full backs required if Kolasniac goes.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jun 26, 2020)




----------



## fundy (Jun 26, 2020)

Seems Guendoozi chose his disciplinary meeting to indicate he would be happy to leave the club at the end of the season. Take what you can get and get rid ASAP imo


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 26, 2020)

Grant85 said:



			I didn't say about the squad depth, but in terms of putting 11 or 13 players out every week, it's better than 9th in the league. Obviously shouldn't be losing to Olympiakos and Brighton etc.

It's well away from challenging, but on paper should have been a lot closer to the champions league spots with 7 games to go.

Unfortunately the only genuine quality player is Aubameyang. However 3 games post lockdown he has been out wide and we have not gotten enough out of him. Lacazette should be more productive, but seems out of favour.

Torriera is a strange one. Looked like he could be the Defensive midfielder we were craving, but kept getting pushed forward by Emery.
Xhaka - I don't share your view he's been much better or should be at the club next season.

Only players I'd keep are;
GK - Leno.
no issue with Martinez as reserve keeper. Done well so far.

CD - Holding. Not seen enough of Soares or Mari... but they are obviously staying now.
Saliba will join from Saint Etienne.
I assume they will give Mavropanos another run before deciding on him.

FB - Bellerin and Tierney - potentially both very good in the correct set up, but maybe both are injury prone. Don't disagree about Bellerin and perhaps he has to be a wing back 3-5-2 or a wide player of a front 3. It seems no one is going to play 4-4-2 with traditional wingers.

Midfield - Gueondozi, Willock, Saka.
Maitland-Niles could come good playing centrally.
Maybe Smith-Rowe will come back in.
And I wouldn't give up on Torriera if he is played defensively, protecting the central defenders.

Forwards - Aubameyang, Pepe, Martinelli, Nketia.
I assume they'll keep Nelson, but not sure where his opportunities will be.
Should require the least amount of surgery, but need to find personnel that allows Aubameyang to play centrally, especially if they are going to give him a big contract.

Offload; Sokratis, Mustafi, Luiz, Kolasniac, Chambers, Xhaka, Ozil, Mkhitaryan.

If Aubameyang and Lacazette both leave, then I'd say it's a rebuild. Give the young forwards game time and hopefully Pepe can get more goals.
Is there much point in spending all the budget on a forward for a team who is heavily reliant on youngsters coming good, and probably another season away from knowing if they will or not? Would be better off buying a few more Martinellis and Guondozis rather than a trying to bring in a finished article from another league.

Definitely need more bodies in midfield. A really robust, one dimensional defensive midfielder should be a priority (if they can't make Torriera that). Someone who can win the ball and offload right or left won't cost a lot and probably win several points just by being there.

And 2 more full backs required if Kolasniac goes.
		
Click to expand...

It has been a rebuild for me for several seasons (as an outsider) and I fear Arteta has a massive problem in getting rid of the deadwood, and more importantly to bring players in that could actually bring quality and add. I suppose one of the biggest unknowns will be what time frame Arteta will have to work in, what the board will see as acceptable progress and how patient the fans will be. The squad does have some good players but if a legendary Arsenal injury jinx hits, it does seem threadbare. Perhaps the only other sides in the top 8 that I don't think are strong in depth are Spurs, Leicester and Wolves. Are the latter punching above their weight for a season


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 27, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



View attachment 31373

Click to expand...

They look like Newcastle supporters!
It says so on the wall.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 27, 2020)

Fabulous goal from wolves. Not just the finish but the move that began deep in their own half. They really are a very good team, emphasis on team.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jun 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			They look like Newcastle supporters!
It says so on the wall.
		
Click to expand...

I thought they were Rooney groupies


----------



## USER1999 (Jun 28, 2020)

Arsenal are stuffed. Their transfer policy for the next few years will be down to whoever Kia Jorobtian wants to ship in at personal gain.

How did it ever come to this? 

The Kroenkes need to wake up, and bin off Raul and Vinkatesham, and sadly, probably Edu, and get in some vision.


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2020)

5.9 for lacazette


----------



## USER1999 (Jun 28, 2020)

How the heck did he get hurt by that?


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2020)

chance for our 70m dead ball specialist anyway


----------



## USER1999 (Jun 28, 2020)

Solid pen.


----------



## USER1999 (Jun 28, 2020)

So it should be for 70m


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Arsenal are stuffed. Their transfer policy for the next few years will be down to whoever Kia Jorobtian wants to ship in at personal gain.

How did it ever come to this?

The Kroenkes need to wake up, and bin off Raul and Vinkatesham, and sadly, probably Edu, and get in some vision.
		
Click to expand...


he was rumoured to have got 6m when we signed Luiz last year, wonder how much he got for the renewal, or for getting Soares a 4 year deal despite not playing for us while on loan or would get if Willian had signed the rumoured 250k a week contract that was on the table or ........

being bent over sadly


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 28, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			How the heck did he get hurt by that?
		
Click to expand...

Bad landing.


----------



## USER1999 (Jun 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Bad landing.
		
Click to expand...

Any idea why he fell over?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 28, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Any idea why he fell over?
		
Click to expand...

He plays for Arsenal.

He was tapped in the Achilles which can be painful but not enough to jump three foot in the air.
If that’s enough for a pen obviously the ref and Var think it is .
If he stays on his feet he prob dosnt get it.
So encouraging players to go down ( or up in his case).


----------



## USER1999 (Jun 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			He plays for Arsenal.
		
Click to expand...

He is a bit foreign too.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 28, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			He is a bit foreign too.
		
Click to expand...

Slippery slope here.


----------



## USER1999 (Jun 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Slippery slope here.
		
Click to expand...

Indeed, because English players never go down easy.

To me, it wasn't a pen, regardless.


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2020)

lol Xhaka wtf is that pathetic dive attempt


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2020)

How many chances do you need to get rid of it, first xhaka, then kolasinac sigh


----------



## USER1999 (Jun 28, 2020)

Always wondered what Ceballos was actually for.


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2020)

not quite sure how but were off to Wembley lol


----------



## USER1999 (Jun 28, 2020)

Who ever we are going to play must be crapping themselves.


Laughing.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 28, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Indeed, because English players never go down easy.

To me, it wasn't a pen, regardless.
		
Click to expand...

It’s one of them .
There is contact , but no need for the antics .
Cellabos on CF is more of a foul , not even looking at the ball! but he never went down.
Thought both teams went to ground easy.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 28, 2020)

Newcastle v City, 1st quarter.  Completed passes, Toon = 15, City = 188😆.

Just 15 passes to a teammate in 22 minutes 😳.

Still 0-0 though.


----------



## fundy (Jun 28, 2020)

oh joy we get torn a new one by City at Wembley


----------



## Fish (Jun 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			oh joy we get torn a new one by City at Wembley 

Click to expand...

Did you just add ‘City’ to your post after the draw was made 😜😏


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 28, 2020)

Can see an all Manchester final, with Manchester Ref taking charge.


----------



## Grant85 (Jun 29, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			It has been a rebuild for me for several seasons (as an outsider) and I fear Arteta has a massive problem in getting rid of the deadwood, and more importantly to bring players in that could actually bring quality and add. I suppose one of the biggest unknowns will be what time frame Arteta will have to work in, what the board will see as acceptable progress and how patient the fans will be. The squad does have some good players but if a legendary Arsenal injury jinx hits, it does seem threadbare. Perhaps the only other sides in the top 8 that I don't think are strong in depth are Spurs, Leicester and Wolves. Are the latter punching above their weight for a season
		
Click to expand...

Don't disagree with much of that. Recruitment is always going to be an issue, especially as they are only signing players from other leagues. Difficult to point to many recent signings who have been a complete success... Aubameyang is the only one. 

Problem I see however is the off field leadership issues will and are filtering through to the team. 

Other clubs who have been successful have generally had far more synergy between ownership, management, coaching and players. I feel this is exactly where Liverpool are at the moment, and where City were (until the potential UEFA ban), Leicester, where previous Arsenal and Man U teams under Wenger and Fergie were. 

it's the reason Chelsea go from challenging or winning to a season or two of nothing and the reason the current Man U set-up is not progressing. And the reason Spurs have not won anything despite a very good squad (and I'd be amazed if that changes under Mourinho).


----------



## MegaSteve (Jun 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			oh joy we get torn a new one by City at Wembley 

Click to expand...

It's the year of the underdog...

Hopefully...


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 29, 2020)

Good to see Danny Ings doing well .
His injury’s held him back with us ,but he always put in the effort.
I hope he wins the golden boot he deserves it.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 29, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Good to see Danny Ings doing well .
His injury’s held him back with us ,but he always put in the effort.
I hope he wins the golden boot he deserves it.
		
Click to expand...

He's a quality striker, as you say, finally had a spell without too many injuries. He should be nailed on for the England squad whenever they play matches again. Absolute no-brainer to call him up. 

Without his goals Southampton would be about 15 points worse off. He's had a fantastic season.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jun 29, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			He's a quality striker, as you say, finally had a spell without too many injuries. He should be nailed on for the England squad whenever they play matches again. Absolute no-brainer to call him up.

Without his goals Southampton would be about 15 points worse off. He's had a fantastic season.
		
Click to expand...

I hope he does but he’s not playing for a fashionable team.
Let’s hope Gareth see past that and goes on form.


----------



## Bdill93 (Jun 29, 2020)

Villa STH 

Were absolutely terrible at present, but I heard a brilliant stat yesterday. Of the bottom 5 teams, 3 points have been won so far since the restart - two of which were Villa's. Not giving up hope yet!


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2020)

Bdill93 said:



			Villa STH

Were absolutely terrible at present, but I heard a brilliant stat yesterday. Of the bottom 5 teams, 3 points have been won so far since the restart - two of which were Villa's. Not giving up hope yet!
		
Click to expand...


the other comment I heard was Villa are the only side at the bottom not trying hard enough to help Villa survive


----------



## Bdill93 (Jun 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			the other comment I heard was Villa are the only side at the bottom not trying hard enough to help Villa survive 

Click to expand...

You arent wrong!!


----------



## Slime (Jun 29, 2020)

Grant85 said:



			Don't disagree with much of that. Recruitment is always going to be an issue, especially as they are only signing players from other leagues. Difficult to point to many recent signings who have been a complete success... Aubameyang is the only one.

Problem I see however is the off field leadership issues will and are filtering through to the team.

Other clubs who have been successful have generally had far more synergy between ownership, management, coaching and players. I feel this is exactly where Liverpool are at the moment, and where City were (until the potential UEFA ban), Leicester, where previous Arsenal and Man U teams under Wenger and Fergie were.

it's the reason Chelsea go from challenging or winning to a season or two of nothing and *the reason the current Man U set-up is not progressing.* And the reason Spurs have not won anything despite a very good squad (and I'd be amazed if that changes under Mourinho).
		
Click to expand...

Are you serious or just on the wind up?


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 29, 2020)

🤣🤣🤣


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2020)

For someone who goes down as easily as he does Ayew mighty lucky not to be off for that elbow


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2020)

Derby defender Andre Wisdom stabbed in a robbery/assault in Toxteth when visiting family  at the weekend thankfully in a stable condition and expected to recover fully


----------



## Papas1982 (Jun 29, 2020)

Slime said:



			Are you serious or just on the wind up?
		
Click to expand...

it would appear UTDs improvement is somewhat false......
pts per game 2019/20 1.58
pts per game 2018/19 1.74
pts per game 2017/18 2.25

are you serious or on a wind up?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 30, 2020)

fundy said:



			Derby defender Andre Wisdom stabbed in a robbery/assault in Toxteth when visiting family  at the weekend thankfully in a stable condition and expected to recover fully
		
Click to expand...

Just been reading this.
Awful,what is wrong wi folk.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 30, 2020)

fundy said:



			Derby defender Andre Wisdom stabbed in a robbery/assault in Toxteth when visiting family  at the weekend thankfully in a stable condition and expected to recover fully
		
Click to expand...

Something strange about this, he turned up at 430am in the morning. I doubt he lives here permanently and commutes to Derby everyday.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 30, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Something strange about this, he turned up at 430am in the morning. I doubt he lives here permanently and commutes to Derby everyday.
		
Click to expand...

Visiting family


----------



## fundy (Jun 30, 2020)

Leroy Sane gone to Bayern for £45m + add ons i see


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jun 30, 2020)

fundy said:



			Leroy Sane gone to Bayern for £45m + add ons i see
		
Click to expand...

Seems a very good deal for Bayern but I suppose once a player wants to leave you have to take what you can get for him.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 30, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Seems a very good deal for Bayern but I suppose once a player wants to leave you have to take what you can get for him.
		
Click to expand...

I think it's a good deal. City paid £46.8 (I think) so got most of their cash back and I imagine Sane will get more game time


----------



## fundy (Jun 30, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Seems a very good deal for Bayern but I suppose once a player wants to leave you have to take what you can get for him.
		
Click to expand...

as an arsenal fan its hard to criticise other clubs deals based on how bad we are at it these days 

seems an ok deal both ways in the current climate to me


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jun 30, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I think it's a good deal. City paid £46.8 (I think) so got most of their cash back and I imagine Sane will get more game time
		
Click to expand...

Considering that he tore his cruciate ligament in the Charity Shield in August and has been out for the whole season there hasn't been much opportunity to give him game time. He played 47 times the previous year so I don't think game time was the problem.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jun 30, 2020)

fundy said:



			as an arsenal fan its hard to criticise other clubs deals based on how bad we are at it these days 

seems an ok deal both ways in the current climate to me
		
Click to expand...

I was looking at the fee compared to Grealish being touted for around £70/75 million. Had to Google to find out but they're both 24 and I think I'd rather have Sane. I know there's a premium on English players and Grealish's price might drop a bit if Villa go down but it does seem like Bayern have got themselves a good deal.


----------



## fundy (Jun 30, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I was looking at the fee compared to Grealish being touted for around £70/75 million. Had to Google to find out but they're both 24 and I think I'd rather have Sane. I know there's a premium on English players and Grealish's price might drop a bit if Villa go down but it does seem like Bayern have got themselves a good deal.
		
Click to expand...

70m+ for Pepe or 45m+ for Sane 

Club desperation (incl payment schedules) and player intention clearly account for some of the differences but I know which of those Id rather have


----------



## fundy (Jun 30, 2020)

On the basis you couldnt reportedly buy Zaha for Sanes price then that confirms the English player premium!


----------



## hairball_89 (Jun 30, 2020)

fundy said:



			On the basis you couldnt reportedly buy Zaha for Sanes price then that confirms the English player premium!
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely. I'd reckon the only English player this summer who won't move with an overinflated price is Ryan Fraser.


----------



## Bazzatron (Jun 30, 2020)

They've definitely changed the VAR criteria haven't they? We had goals disallowed for toenails offside after the VAR got his set rule out and they haven't bothered this evening.


----------



## Orikoru (Jun 30, 2020)

Sane has attitude problems though doesn't he? Touched upon when Germany left him out for the World Cup.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 30, 2020)

United looking very strong post-lockdown. Fernandes is awesome and Greenwood is such a talent.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 30, 2020)

What a goal. Absolutely lethal on the counter, unbelievable ball from Matic to get it started.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 30, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			United looking very strong post-lockdown. Fernandes is awesome and Greenwood is such a talent.
		
Click to expand...

You sure about that Fernandez? I mean I not sure he will adapt 🤣🤣


----------



## Slime (Jun 30, 2020)

Very professional performance tonight.
Bruno, what a player!


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 30, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			United looking very strong post-lockdown.
		
Click to expand...

What teams have they played again? 🤔😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 30, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			They've definitely changed the VAR criteria haven't they? We had goals disallowed for toenails offside after the VAR got his set rule out and they haven't bothered this evening.
		
Click to expand...


I'm sick of saying it but until we improve the standard of officials nothing will change.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 1, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			What teams have they played again? 🤔😂
		
Click to expand...

Two top 8 teams and a team that beat Arsenal??


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 1, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Two top 8 teams and *a team that beat Arsenal*??
		
Click to expand...

and got a draw at Leicester. Brighton had been doing well post-lockdown until last night.


----------



## fundy (Jul 1, 2020)

rare good news from Arsenal as Saka signs a new long term contract


----------



## fundy (Jul 1, 2020)

Sad to see Wigan Athletic go into administration, they wont be the last either  

Likely 12 pt deduction will put them bottom of the champs and likely to be relegated too


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			Sad to see Wigan Athletic go into administration, they wont be the last either 

Likely 12 pt deduction will put them bottom of the champs and likely to be relegated too
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully they might be able to survive the 12pt deduction due to covid


----------



## fundy (Jul 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Hopefully they might be able to survive the 12pt deduction due to covid
		
Click to expand...

That would pretty much guarantee championship relegation be sorted out in a courtroom you would think


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			That would pretty much guarantee championship relegation be sorted out in a courtroom you would think 

Click to expand...

The deduction for going into administration is in the rules for the leage. It has happened before to other teams, precedents have been set. Sad to see but this could be the first of a few.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The deduction for going into administration is in the rules for the leage. It has happened before to other teams, precedents have been set. Sad to see but this could be the first of a few.
		
Click to expand...

Disappointing they’re stating this is down to the Covid crisis, the Bank of England gave Spurs a £150 mil loan recently due to the Covid crisis, surely something could of been done for Wigan. 
Not a dig at Spurs in anyway.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Disappointing they’re stating this is down to the Covid crisis, the Bank of England gave Spurs a £150 mil loan recently due to the Covid crisis, surely something could of been done for Wigan.
Not a dig at Spurs in anyway.

Click to expand...

I think if a few follow suit then rules may be looked at re points decution. Not sure loan's can just be given to everyone. Spurs are obviously a safer bet re repayment.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 1, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I think if a few follow suit then rules may be looked at re points decution. Not sure loan's can just be given to everyone. Spurs are obviously a safer bet re repayment.
		
Click to expand...

Not comparing Wigan to Spurs, but it is Championship side to PL, they are currently safe and if next season returns to normal they’ll have decent income, their last financial report showed a £9mil loss so the loan needed may of been small compared to Spurs and I am guessing that going on the Wigan statement they’d of been OK had it not been for the Covid crisis.

They don’t publicly seem to fit the bill of a Club likely to folded anyway.🤷‍♂️


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Not comparing Wigan to Spurs, but it is Championship side to PL, they are currently safe and if next season returns to normal they’ll have decent income, their last financial report showed a £9mil loss so the loan needed may of been small compared to Spurs and I am guessing that going on the Wigan statement they’d of been OK had it not been for the Covid crisis.

They don’t publicly seem to fit the bill of a Club likely to folded anyway.🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

I guess a lot will depend on how next season goes. Spurs have assets worth the loan, guess it depends how much Wigan needed. 

if they lost the 9m prior to covid then they aren’t gonna look to attractive to the banks if they’re losing it had over first now.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Disappointing they’re stating this is down to the Covid crisis, the Bank of England gave Spurs a £150 mil loan recently due to the Covid crisis, surely something could of been done for Wigan.
Not a dig at Spurs in anyway.

Click to expand...

I don't know what the Wigan balance sheet is like but they are not knocking on the door of the PL so are they a decent bet for a loan? Most clubs in that division lose money each year, wages outdo income or are frequently at around 90%. At least with Spurs they have near guaranteed PL income, have good money coming from each home again, commerical interests, potential CL money, player sales. Clubs that were badly run before Covid will be exposed further by the loss in matchday income.

From the looks of it Wigan will not go under, this is partly about restructuring debt, protecting the club from folding. They will take the hit short term to survive long term.


----------



## fundy (Jul 1, 2020)

Great to see Luiz back in an Arsenal shirt so soon - NOT!

luiz mustafi and kolasinac as a back 3 makes me shudder


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 1, 2020)

Nice start. Lovely first goal, and got our first penalty of the season. Love to see it.


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 1, 2020)

Xhaka and goal in the same sentence normally means he has messed up and conceded.

Not this time.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Xhaka and goal in the same sentence normally means he has messed up and conceded.

Not this time.
		
Click to expand...

Tis only Norwich mind


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 1, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Tis only Norwich mind
		
Click to expand...

We couldn't beat Barnet the other day.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			We couldn't beat Barnet the other day.
		
Click to expand...

Bit I think Barnet would beat Norwich. They look very poor


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 1, 2020)

Maddison's changed this game, we look well off the pace in the 2nd half. There's a bottle job incoming here. Classic Everton.


----------



## fundy (Jul 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			We couldn't beat Barnet the other day.
		
Click to expand...

wasnt that Brentford? side that are flying high in the championship not a non league side. Bad but not that bad lol


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			wasnt that Brentford? side that are flying high in the championship not a non league side. Bad but not that bad lol
		
Click to expand...

Knew it was one of them!


----------



## fundy (Jul 1, 2020)

Welcome to Arsenal Cedric


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			Welcome to Arsenal Cedric
		
Click to expand...

Is he a midget? Looks like it.


----------



## fundy (Jul 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Is he a midget? Looks like it.
		
Click to expand...


a lofty 5ft8 on all accounts, yup a midget


----------



## Wolf (Jul 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			a lofty 5ft8 on all accounts, yup a midget 

Click to expand...

Oi... Thats 2 inches taller than me, he's massive 😂


----------



## fundy (Jul 1, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Oi... Thats 2 inches taller than me, he's massive 😂
		
Click to expand...

both Murph and I are well north of 6ft, youre both midgets  #sizest


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			a lofty 5ft8 on all accounts, yup a midget 

Click to expand...

He must have been standing by a taller player then, but I think that is a generous 5,8.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 1, 2020)

Blimey, that was a stressful 2nd half. Will take the 3 points though.


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 1, 2020)

Just watched a replay of the goal celebrations.

Confirmed.

He is a midget.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 1, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Blimey, that was a stressful 2nd half. Will take the 3 points though.
		
Click to expand...

Maddison did change it and then Ancelotti tightened us up. I don't like us sitting that deep, far too stressful, but we looked pretty solid. Keane has come back a different player and Holgate is looking a class act. 

We have had a very decent restart and i suspect Carlo is getting to learn a lot about his players, good and bad.


----------



## fundy (Jul 1, 2020)

VAR lol


----------



## DanFST (Jul 1, 2020)

That's a pile of fecal matter.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 1, 2020)

Excuse my French but that is Bull ****


----------



## DanFST (Jul 1, 2020)

It should have been a pen anyway. I'm LIVID


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 1, 2020)

Shocking decision


----------



## fundy (Jul 1, 2020)

5.8 for pulisic, defender shouldnt leave his leg there but geez does he want to jump and arch a little more


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 1, 2020)

Dw it levels out throughout the season

Erm that's why we have video replay 

No wait we still rubbish


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 1, 2020)

Letter of the law both are right imo.
would be fuming if either went against saints though!


----------



## fundy (Jul 1, 2020)

3 mins IT when they took nearly 4 mins for the VAR lol


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 1, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Letter of the law both are right imo.
would be fuming if either went against saints though!
		
Click to expand...

If lines are needed that close and it takes longer than 30 seconds to decide then that should be it

However why didn't they take 3 mins to get to the correct decision last week against spurs for the handball in the build up to spurs goal?


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 1, 2020)

Get in soucek 

He is the main reason I want to stay up

If we stay up we have to buy him from the loan it's the deal

Yes please


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 1, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			If lines are needed that close and it takes longer than 30 seconds to decide then that should be it

However why didn't they take 3 mins to get to the correct decision last week against spurs for the handball in the build up to spurs goal?
		
Click to expand...

I fully agree with what you’ve said, but they’ve said that atm they go down to the smallest margin and just becuase a different goal is ruled out, it doesn’t mean others that should stand (by the rules) should be ruled out.


----------



## DanFST (Jul 1, 2020)

Should still be 1-0 up. 

How can they say Antonio touched it, when they couldn't catch the handball when we played spurs last week.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 1, 2020)

I thought the letter of the law was blocking the keepers view.
Keeper has a perfect view of the ball.
That’s a bad decision.
Diving is ruining the game . He is already going down.
Think Alonso is lucky as well ,raking his Achilles.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 1, 2020)

Hope that VAR call spurs us on to go for the game

Lovely goal

Apparently without VAR "calls" west ham would have 42 points this season.. that's bad


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 1, 2020)

If that’s not a pen it’s a dive.
But it looks like he pulls his shirt a bit.
But not enough to go down like that.
Officials are posh poor again.


----------



## DanFST (Jul 1, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			If that’s not a pen it’s a dive.
		
Click to expand...

Same as pulisic, he did "leave a leg" ie: didnt stand with his feet next to each other.

But the ball was going straight to the defender and he was already going down.

The rule is poor, don't blame players anymore. Officiating and rules are so poor.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 1, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Same as pulisic, he did "leave a leg" ie: didnt stand with his feet next to each other.

But the ball was going straight to the defender and he was already going down.

The rule is poor, don't blame players anymore. Officiating and rules are so poor.
		
Click to expand...

He goes down asking for a pen so is he trying to con the ref?
What a joke sub on so the game has stopped. ,as soon as he takes the free kick he blows for a drinks break,


----------



## Fish (Jul 1, 2020)

😎💙


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			😎💙
		
Click to expand...

Great free kick that


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 1, 2020)

Strange display from Chelsea 
Seem very hot and cold.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 1, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Strange display from Chelsea 
Seem very hot and cold.
		
Click to expand...

They are not far from being very good. They just seem to lack consistency. I see them as being the team most likely to challenge the top 2 next year.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			They are not far from being very good. They just seem to lack consistency. I see them as being the team most likely to challenge the top 2 next year.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I agree.
What a great player Pulistic is looks like he’s on roller skates .
Not to great at the back tonight though.

Antonio has done well up on his own.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 1, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I agree.
What a great player Pulistic is looks like he’s on roller skates .
Not to great at the back tonight though.

Antonio has done well up on his own.
		
Click to expand...

Well this post has just gone up in the accuracy stakes. Bad defending by Chelsea, cracking hold up play followed by a beautiful through ball by Antonio. You only missed a quality finish by Yarmalenko but that would be harsh to hold against you 😄.

I don't know what hammers fans think of him generally but Antonio has done everything asked of him tonight. Massive display by him.


----------



## DanFST (Jul 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't know what hammers fans think of him generally but Antonio
		
Click to expand...

He is great. Not the best player, gets played out of position all the time. (played RB 2 years ago). But gives 100%, that's all us lot ask for.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 1, 2020)

Just going to say one thing

This is how much better a side west ham are when noble isn't on the pitch


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Well this post has just gone up in the accuracy stakes. Bad defending by Chelsea, cracking hold up play followed by a beautiful through ball by Antonio. You only missed a quality finish by Yarmalenko but that would be harsh to hold against you 😄.

I don't know what hammers fans think of him generally but Antonio has done everything asked of him tonight. Massive display by him.
		
Click to expand...

Little bit of justice I think. Well done WH.

Makes fourth place interesting.


----------



## Slime (Jul 1, 2020)

What a superb 26 hours for United!


----------



## Fade and Die (Jul 1, 2020)

Good old Chelski. They always seem to cough up some points when we need them.
Other results going our way too...

Happy Hammer!


----------



## Fade and Die (Jul 1, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Just going to say one thing

This is how much better a side west ham are when noble isn't on the pitch
		
Click to expand...

 I’d defo give jack a go in place of noble and get yarmo on again when Bowen has run himself into the ground. Souckec was superb too.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 1, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			I’d defo give jack a go in place of noble and get yarmo on again when Bowen has run himself into the ground. Souckec was superb too.
		
Click to expand...

Soucek is the man we need to sore up the midfield a bit.

Fornals is so much better at laying off the ball at pace which noble isn't. He slows the game so so so poorly


----------



## Fade and Die (Jul 1, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Soucek is the man we need to sore up the midfield a bit.

Fornals is so much better at laying off the ball at pace which noble isn't. He slows the game so so so poorly
		
Click to expand...

We would never have got that result with him in midfield.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 1, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			We would never have got that result with him in midfield.
		
Click to expand...

He's been holding us back for years 

Post payet his time was really up

Been saying it for ages. Can't stand him at all

Just because you support the club doesn't mean you should start every game 

Takes a good pen but much rather watch us win


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			😎💙
		
Click to expand...

Peaked too soon there old boy 😂😉


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 2, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Maddison did change it and then Ancelotti tightened us up. I don't like us sitting that deep, far too stressful, but we looked pretty solid. Keane has come back a different player and Holgate is looking a class act.

We have had a very decent restart and i suspect Carlo is getting to learn a lot about his players, good and bad.
		
Click to expand...

We'd have lost that game without Carlo. Silva would have waited until it was 3-2 and then brought another striker on and we'd have lost 4-2. Keane's been superb since the restart, fair play to him, I wasn't sure he was good enough to cut it, but think him and Holgate have the potential to be a really solid centre half partnership. I can see us doing what we did to Leicester to a few of the decent sides under Carlo, nick a goal or two on the counter or from set pieces and then stop them from scoring (we almost did it to Liverpool if it wasn't for Gomez's block), we were very well organised last night.


----------



## fundy (Jul 2, 2020)

Another day another VAR joke lol, oh well was against Spurs


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 2, 2020)

VAR has totally ruined football. No point watching it anymore. Why bring in VAR if you're just going to use blind morons to review it? That clearly his his shoulder blade from every angle of the replay and they call it handball? Even if it's handball was he not bundled over and fouled?? ***** stupid.


----------



## Piece (Jul 2, 2020)

It’s the law that’s a laugh not the VAR.


----------



## Piece (Jul 2, 2020)

Norwood you are a lucky boy!


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 2, 2020)

Piece said:



			It’s the law that’s a laugh not the VAR.
		
Click to expand...

The law and the blind idiots they have reviewing the decisions apparently.


----------



## fundy (Jul 2, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			VAR has totally ruined football. No point watching it anymore. Why bring in VAR if you're just going to use blind morons to review it? That clearly his his shoulder blade from every angle of the replay and they call it handball? Even if it's handball was he not bundled over and fouled?? ***** stupid.
		
Click to expand...


all of10 days since you were on the right side of one against West Ham, not to mention one in the reverse fixture v Sheff Utd. All evens itself out anyway doesnt it 🤣


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 2, 2020)

Pathetic decision. Even if it hits his arm, the ball was played by the SU player. 

It's a foul and a freekick.


----------



## fundy (Jul 2, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Pathetic decision. Even if it hits his arm, the ball was played by the SU player.

It's a foul and a freekick.
		
Click to expand...

ah but VAR cant adjudicate on the foul


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 2, 2020)

This is the result of the rules are rules, handball is handball brigade. 

Those who have moaned for and wanted VAR are now reaping the rewards.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			ah but VAR cant adjudicate on the foul 

Click to expand...

VAR cant get decisions right neither, stick it in the bin.

I've been consistent with my views.


----------



## fundy (Jul 2, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			VAR cant get decisions right neither, stick it in the bin.

I've been consistent with my views.
		
Click to expand...


more consistent than the clowns adjudicating it thats for sure!

im still not anti VAR, just anti the current laughable implementation of it, pretty sure theres a much better middle ground (albeit still wont be ideal for game going fans  )


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			all of10 days since you were on the right side of one against West Ham, not to mention one in the reverse fixture v Sheff Utd. All evens itself out anyway doesnt it 🤣
		
Click to expand...

I don't want to benefit from stupid rules and nonsense VAR, I've said that all along. The Pukki goal for Norwich against us should have stood. Sheffield's goal against us in the reverse fixture should have stood. It's all rubbish. Sanchez against West Ham I felt wasn't a clear handball at the time - but it looked more of a handball than this one on Lucas didn't it? See even with VAR we don't have consistency.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			more consistent than the clowns adjudicating it thats for sure!

im still not anti VAR, just anti the current laughable implementation of it, pretty sure theres a much better middle ground (albeit still wont be ideal for game going fans  )
		
Click to expand...

You're right, the rule changes have been utterly stupid. But so many times the people reviewing the VAR seem to have come up with something completely different to what we've all witnessed at home. No matter what they do we still have human error and inconsistency. Which sort of renders it pointless bringing in VAR in the first place.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 2, 2020)

Whilst this current crop of refs are around nothing will change. Improve the standard of refs, 1st and foremost. 

I'd like to know who owns the VAR concept.


----------



## fundy (Jul 2, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Whilst this current crop of refs are around nothing will change. Improve the standard of refs, 1st and foremost.

I'd like to know who owns the VAR concept.
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			Liverpool? 

Click to expand...

Playing like champions aren't they. Don't think City have been overly good either but Liverpool don't look fussed at all - almost as lacklustre as the applause from the City guard of honour


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 2, 2020)

New handball rule is farcical. How do you disallow the 5th goal for that?


----------



## brendy (Jul 2, 2020)

Now that is what hungover football looks like!


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			LiVARpool? 

Click to expand...

I forgot, week long celebrations taken its toll 😉


----------



## Slime (Jul 2, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I forgot, week long celebrations taken its toll 😉
		
Click to expand...

Aye, very unprofessional.


----------



## fundy (Jul 2, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I forgot, week long celebrations taken its toll 😉
		
Click to expand...


only just starting then


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 2, 2020)

I thought we played ok first half but our final ball was non existent.
We got a lesson in finishing from City.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 2, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			VAR has totally ruined football. No point watching it anymore. Why bring in VAR if you're just going to use blind morons to review it? That clearly his his shoulder blade from every angle of the replay and they call it handball? Even if it's handball was he not bundled over and fouled?? ***** stupid.
		
Click to expand...

Yes agree.
What I don’t get is the ref played advantage ,but spurs didn’t get any advantage as the goal is disallowed.
So it should be a foul to spurs.
VAR is a joke.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 3, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I thought we played ok first half but our final ball was non existent.
We got a lesson in finishing from City.
		
Click to expand...

I thought that the greatest difference was at the other end of the pitch.

The unreliable City defence looked really solid for once.

Liverpool's defence has been absolutely magnificent all season but last night looked all over the place. Even Alyson and DvD.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			This is the result of the rules are rules, handball is handball brigade.

Those who have moaned for and wanted VAR are now reaping the rewards.
		
Click to expand...

So what you're saying is people who wanted VAR wanted the handball rule to change to something that is stupid?

Some leap that.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			So what you're saying is people who wanted VAR wanted the handball rule to change to something that is stupid?

Some leap that.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, exactly that. Imagine the meeting.
"Now that we've got VAR assistance for the refs we'd better make sure that absolutely every minute suggestion of a handball, no matter how tenuous or accidental, means the goal is chalked off!"
"But why?"
"Because we can see all that now, on the video."
"But.. why??"
"Err.. why not? It'll be funny?"


----------



## Junior (Jul 3, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Playing like champions aren't they. Don't think City have been overly good either but Liverpool don't look fussed at all - almost as lacklustre as the applause from the City guard of honour
		
Click to expand...

City not overly good in defence maybe but going forward they were immense.  I realise Liverpool were hungover but De Bruyne was class and Foden gave Roberton the run around, which doesn't happen to him very often.  Foden is going to be some player. 

That said, Liverpool could have been 2 up before City scored.  Quite the open and entertaining game.  Still crap without the fans though


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			So what you're saying is people who wanted VAR wanted the handball rule to change to something that is stupid?

Some leap that.
		
Click to expand...

No. 

What I'm saying is those who wanted it, have got it so accept what you're getting.  

What's good in theory, isn't so good in practice. 

Regards the handball law change, it was a change that probably needed to be made as people/refs/managers/pundits couldn't decipher intentional v accidental handball.


----------



## User62651 (Jul 3, 2020)

A minder to Liverpool that they can't rest on their laurels, City fairly slick and keen and Liverpool whilst apperaring to give 100% were not quite at it. Everyone gets a gubbing at Etihad sometimes but whilst I thought City would win at home it was a wee bit embarrassing for Liverpool to go down by 4 just a week after landing the title. When was the last time Liverpool lost by 4 in a domestic comp?

I think Klopp was livid, when interviewed was quite nippy with the interviewer about the interpretation of the questions.

Doesn't detract from a terrific season for the champs but I hope they can get a few more wins in the last 6 games to get the points record and dont fizzle out.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			No.

What I'm saying is those who wanted it, have got it so accept what you're getting. 

What's good in theory, isn't so good in practice.

Regards the handball law change, it was a change that probably needed to be made as people/refs/managers/pundits couldn't decipher intentional v accidental handball.
		
Click to expand...

Don't really agree though. When VAR was touted I was picturing the video screen at the side of the pitch so the referee could review a decision he wasn't sure about by watching it. And I was all for it. What we've got is something VERY different. Idiots sitting in an office reviewing it instead of the referee who actually has the context of the game; plus some stupid rule changes to make them more arbitrary instead of using common sense, which wasn't needed at all. I don't know who decided video replays and common sense weren't compatible. I just don't know how they have got it so wrong. It could have been done so much easier and better.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			No.

What I'm saying is those who wanted it, have got it so accept what you're getting.

What's good in theory, isn't so good in practice.

Regards the handball law change, it was a change that probably needed to be made as people/refs/managers/pundits couldn't decipher intentional v accidental handball.
		
Click to expand...

The handball law didnt need to be changed, it should have just stayed what it was approx 5-10 years ago, and for the main it worked.

No reffing in football is perfect, but some are better than others. The handball rule/interpretation is a perfect example.

I think the vast majority of handballs 5-10 years ago could be deciphered down the intentional / borderline / non-intentional spheres but when they started to bring in mad descriptions was when it started to go pear-shaped. Nothing to do with VAR but with VAR making rule decisions, it comes into that sphere of influence, but the main problem is the rule itself.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 3, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			A minder to Liverpool that they can't rest on their laurels, City fairly slick and keen and Liverpool whilst apperaring to give 100% were not quite at it. Everyone gets a gubbing at Etihad sometimes but whilst I thought City would win at home it was a wee bit embarrassing for Liverpool to go down by 4 just a week after landing the title. When was the last time Liverpool lost by 4 in a domestic comp?

I think Klopp was livid, when interviewed was quite nippy with the interviewer about the interpretation of the questions.

Doesn't detract from a terrific season for the champs but I hope they can get a few more wins in the last 6 games to get the points record and dont fizzle out.
		
Click to expand...

Score those early chances and it s a different game/result. 

Credit has  to go to city for doing a job on Robbo, he's one of our biggest threats.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			The handball law didnt need to be changed, it should have just stayed what it was approx 5-10 years ago, and for the main it worked.

No reffing in football is perfect, but some are better than others. The handball rule/interpretation is a perfect example.

I think the vast majority of handballs 5-10 years ago could be deciphered down the intentional / borderline / non-intentional spheres but when they start to bring in mad descriptions was when it started to go pear-shaped. Not to with VAR but with VAR making rule decisions, it comes into that sphere of influence, but the main problem is the rule itself.
		
Click to expand...

They've tried really hard to make it completely black and white, maybe that's what they thought people wanted when they asked for VAR? But it never can be black and white, not if you want it to be sensible at the same time.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 3, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Don't really agree though. When VAR was touted I was picturing the video screen at the side of the pitch so the referee could review a decision he wasn't sure about by watching it. And I was all for it. What we've got is something VERY different. Idiots sitting in an office reviewing it instead of the referee who actually has the context of the game; plus some stupid rule changes to make them more arbitrary instead of using common sense, which wasn't needed at all. I don't know who decided video replays and common sense weren't compatible. I just don't know how they have got it so wrong. It could have been done so much easier and better.
		
Click to expand...

Its was clear before the season refs would not be using the screen. 

There's 2 issues I can see.

1, The complete mismanagement from the top of PGMOL. We're using the concept very differently than the rest of Europe.
2, The rule changes have been made to improve decisions. Unfortunately that's not worked as planned. 

There was many occasions in seasons gone by when a players right boot was offside and goals have stood. Many people have used these incidents to campaign for VAR/Change. Now it's been done those same people are complaining the rules are stupid. 

Common sense doesnt exist.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Its was clear before the season refs would not be using the screen.

There's 2 issues I can see.

1, The complete mismanagement from the top of PGMOL. We're using the concept very differently than the rest of Europe.
2, The rule changes have been made to improve decisions. Unfortunately that's not worked as planned.

There was many occasions in seasons gone by when a players right boot was offside and goals have stood. Many people have used these incidents to campaign for VAR/Change. Now it's been done those same people are complaining the rules are stupid.

Common sense doesnt exist.
		
Click to expand...

My view on offside is that it should be clearly offside = offside, as in you talk their body as a whole and visibly see that they are ahead of the defender's body. If they are running neck and neck, but the forward's toe is in front simply because of the stride pattern in the frame where they stop it, that is ridiculous and shouldn't be given as offside. I hate when they draw the lines on it and "prove" that someone was offside because he was leaning forward and his forehead was in front of the players shoes. Just rubbish. All they had to do was watch the replay with the naked eye and see if he's clearly offside or not. Would take a third of the time as well.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 3, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			The handball law didnt need to be changed, it should have just stayed what it was approx 5-10 years ago, and for the main it worked.

No reffing in football is perfect, but some are better than others. The handball rule/interpretation is a perfect example.

I think the vast majority of handballs 5-10 years ago could be deciphered down the intentional / borderline / non-intentional spheres but when they start to bring in mad descriptions was when it started to go pear-shaped. Not to with VAR but with VAR making rule decisions, it comes into that sphere of influence, but the main problem is the rule itself.
		
Click to expand...

I think it needed tweaking. Defenders making themselves bigger etc, that's gaining an advantage. I don't like this current handball rule. How can you have the defender getting accidental handball but not the attacker? 

Players getting penalised for jumping with their arms up is another one. This has came from the pundits "unnatural position" lines...

It all comes back to having better refs, demoting the rubbish ones and generally trying to improve the standard.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 3, 2020)

K


Orikoru said:



			My view on offside is that it should be clearly offside = offside, as in you talk their body as a whole and visibly see that they are ahead of the defender's body. If they are running neck and neck, but the forward's toe is in front simply because of the stride pattern in the frame where they stop it, that is ridiculous and shouldn't be given as offside. I hate when they draw the lines on it and "prove" that someone was offside because he was leaning forward and his forehead was in front of the players shoes. Just rubbish. All they had to do was watch the replay with the naked eye and see if he's clearly offside or not. Would take a third of the time as well.
		
Click to expand...

Rubbish. If hes not clearly offside but only just is that ok?? 😁😁

The problem with your suggestion is where do you stop? How do you measure? It's got to have a point where its offside.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			K


Rubbish. If hes not clearly offside but only just is that ok?? 😁😁

The problem with your suggestion is where do you stop? How do you measure? It's got to have a point where its offside.
		
Click to expand...

It's down the officials judgement like always?

I have done a crude drawing to explain what I mean a bit better. Let's say the red stickman is the attacker and the blue is the defender:


(They're running from right to left.)

You can see that the red player is actually behind the defender based on where his body is. But because of the stride pattern at the point when they stop the replay, bad luck for him, his foot happens to be a fraction in front, so that would be given offside, even though there is no way he's gaining an advantage there - since his body is behind the defender's. This sort of thing has been given frequently throughout the season and I believe it's wrong. They should judge it as a whole, is the player in front of the defender and thus gaining an advantage. If one toe is in front but their _bodies_ are neck and neck, than that is level. They have completely removed the concept of being level with a defender. Strikers cannot be level anymore in case a tiny fraction of their body is shown to be offside in one frame of the replay, so now they have to stay two feet further onside just to be sure. And I don't think that is right. As an attacker you should be able to look across the line and see that you are level with the defenders.


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 3, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			It's down the officials judgement like always?

I have done a crude drawing to explain what I mean a bit better. Let's say the red stickman is the attacker and the blue is the defender:
View attachment 31489

(They're running from right to left.)

You can see that the red player is actually behind the defender based on where his body is. But because of the stride pattern at the point when they stop the replay, bad luck for him, his foot happens to be a fraction in front, so that would be given offside, even though there is no way he's gaining an advantage there - since his body is behind the defender's. This sort of thing has been given frequently throughout the season and I believe it's wrong. They should judge it as a whole, is the player in front of the defender and thus gaining an advantage. If one toe is in front but their _bodies_ are neck and neck, than that is level. They have completely removed the concept of being level with a defender. Strikers cannot be level anymore in case a tiny fraction of their body is shown to be offside in one frame of the replay, so now they have to stay two feet further onside just to be sure. And I don't think that is right. As an attacker you should be able to look across the line and see that you are level with the defenders.
		
Click to expand...

Post of the year 🤣🤣🤣👏🙌

I think I said months ago, it should be a point on the torso or maybe just above the waist but not including the arms. The legs and feet thing at the minute is a joke as described so eloquently by Mr Ori.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 3, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Post of the year 🤣🤣🤣👏🙌
		
Click to expand...

Honestly it upsets me so much. Even when Norwich's goal by Pukki was ruled out for that against Spurs, against my own team, I was furious at how stupid it was.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 3, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			I thought that the greatest difference was at the other end of the pitch.

The unreliable City defence looked really solid for once.

Liverpool's defence has been absolutely magnificent all season but last night looked all over the place. Even Alyson and DvD.
		
Click to expand...

Agree with the Liverpool defence.
But our final ball was awful and if we had got it right would have scored a few.
Our bad finishing was the only reason they kept a clean sheet not their defending.
That was the difference for me. First half anyway.
.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 3, 2020)




----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Its was clear before the season refs would not be using the screen.

There's 2 issues I can see.

1, The complete mismanagement from the top of PGMOL. We're using the concept very differently than the rest of Europe.
2, The rule changes have been made to improve decisions. Unfortunately that's not worked as planned.

There was many occasions in seasons gone by when a players right boot was offside and goals have stood. Many people have used these incidents to campaign for VAR/Change. Now it's been done those same people are complaining the rules are stupid.

Common sense doesnt exist.
		
Click to expand...

But If VAR disappeared tomorrow the daft handball rule would still be there, would'nt it?

I agree they have royally ballsed up parts of it, including the ref being able to look himself, but would be happy to have 1-2 more seasons of VAR to see if it improves enough and if it does'nt bin it.

I still think that the captain/manager having only, say 3, appeals would greatly help its use and application though.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 3, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I think it needed tweaking. Defenders making themselves bigger etc, that's gaining an advantage. I don't like this current handball rule. How can you have the defender getting accidental handball but not the attacker?

Players getting penalised for jumping with their arms up is another one. This has came from the pundits "unnatural position" lines...

It all comes back to having better refs, demoting the rubbish ones and generally trying to improve the standard.
		
Click to expand...

It doesnt ALL come back to that though. A utopian idea.

Even if we had refs like the machine in Predator, we still wouldnt be happy with a good portion of it.


----------



## fundy (Jul 3, 2020)

Sounds like there may be more than meets the eye regarding Wigans situation, plenty of speculation about some very large bets on them to be relegated


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 3, 2020)

fundy said:



			Sounds like there may be more than meets the eye regarding Wigans situation, plenty of speculation about some very large bets on them to be relegated
		
Click to expand...

This thread is quite an eye opener.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1279000646335836163


----------



## fundy (Jul 3, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			This thread is quite an eye opener.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1279000646335836163

Click to expand...


yeah had read that when i posted, be interesting to see what happens now and how much is true


----------



## fundy (Jul 3, 2020)

Enjoyable to see Joey Bartons Fleetwood taking a hiding in the play offs tonight  down to 10 men and 4-1 down at home with half hr to go


----------



## Imurg (Jul 3, 2020)

fundy said:



			Enjoyable to see Joey Bartons Fleetwood taking a hiding in the play offs tonight  down to 10 men and 4-1 down at home with half hr to go
		
Click to expand...

Come on you Chairboys


----------



## fundy (Jul 3, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Come on you Chairboys

Click to expand...

gonna be a helluva story if they come up (not to mention a whole host of quiz questions along the lines of who got promoted despite not even being in the play off places etc)


----------



## fundy (Jul 3, 2020)

make that 9 men lol, nice to see a ref book someone for diving then red card him for the abuse that followed


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 4, 2020)

Mason Greenwood is some talent, quality performance from the United front 4 again.


----------



## Slime (Jul 4, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Mason Greenwood is some talent, quality performance from the United front 4 again.
		
Click to expand...

He is, maybe, a once in a generation player.
Great strikeforce and looking good for a top four.


----------



## ger147 (Jul 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			He is, maybe, a once in a generation player.
Great strikeforce and looking good for a top four.
		
Click to expand...

If United get top 4 who do you think will miss out, Leicester or Chelsea?


----------



## Slime (Jul 4, 2020)

ger147 said:



			If United get top 4 who do you think will miss out, Leicester or Chelsea?
		
Click to expand...

Leicester, I think Utd will end up 3rd with Chelsea or Wolves in 4th.
However, Leicester did get a very good win today.
Historically my predictions are utter garbage, but I live in hope.
Your top four thoughts?


----------



## ger147 (Jul 4, 2020)

Slime said:



			Leicester, I think Utd will end up 3rd with Chelsea or Wolves in 4th.
However, Leicester did get a very good win today.
Historically my predictions are utter garbage, but I live in hope.
Your top four thoughts?
		
Click to expand...

It could come down to the final game of the season btw United and Leicester. Could really be any 2 from those 4 as there are so few games left, one slip up from anyone could cost them.


----------



## fundy (Jul 4, 2020)

Good 45 mins training session that, good to see Saka score after signing anew contract too


----------



## hairball_89 (Jul 4, 2020)

Even as a Liverpool fan, can't help but admire that utd performance. What a forward line they have. And the balance with matic and Fernandes allows pogba to do what he wants as well. Sort out the defence and they'll be very, very dangerous.


----------



## fundy (Jul 4, 2020)

cracking result winning at Wolves


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 4, 2020)

So, Laca can still score.

Who knew?


----------



## fundy (Jul 4, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			So, Laca can still score.

Who knew?
		
Click to expand...

as the arsenal twitter acc put it, Saka Laca BOOM!


----------



## paddyc (Jul 4, 2020)

fundy said:



			cracking result winning at Wolves 

Click to expand...

Yeah really good win without playing that well. Definitely  look more solid defensively.  Great goal by Laca. Joe Willock just hasn't  got it.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 4, 2020)

Arsenal actually looked pretty organised at the back, with David Luiz in there, maybe Arteta can work miracles! Looked better when Traore was through the middle and Tierney was at the back, but solid performance and 2 good wins in a row for them. Saka's a really talented lad too. In Sancho, Greenwood, Foden and Saka England have some serious talent coming through the ranks.


----------



## fundy (Jul 4, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Yeah really good win without playing that well. Definitely  look more solid defensively.  Great goal by Laca. Joe Willock just hasn't  got it.
		
Click to expand...

good to see Torreira back too, hope hes still there next year. A few shoots of encouragement at least


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 4, 2020)

We were bloody awful. Wrong tactics from the start.


----------



## Fish (Jul 4, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			We were bloody awful. Wrong tactics from the start.
		
Click to expand...

So that’s how Arsenal won, knew it couldn’t be their own performance 😏


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 4, 2020)

Fish said:



			So that’s how Arsenal won, knew it couldn’t be their own performance 😏
		
Click to expand...

Nah, they took advantage, fair play to them.


----------



## Fish (Jul 4, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Nah, they took advantage, fair play to them.
		
Click to expand...

Well as they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day 😏


----------



## fundy (Jul 4, 2020)

Chelsea must be winning, Fish is back


----------



## Fish (Jul 4, 2020)

Decent reaction with the changes made after a poor result and performance against WH, clean sheet was really important, back to 4th but it’s all nip & tuck, but I believe we‘ll see it through.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 4, 2020)

That Bruno fella looks decent for UTD,but other teams weren’t in for him so how’s it so??
😂😂😂😂


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 4, 2020)

Fish said:



			Decent reaction with the changes made after a poor result and performance against WH, clean sheet was really important, back to 4th but it’s all nip & tuck, but I believe we‘ll see it through.
		
Click to expand...

Hellllooooooo stranger.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 4, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			That Bruno fella looks decent for UTD,but other teams weren’t in for him so how’s it so??
😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

I don't think he will adapt.. overatted


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 4, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			I don't think he will adapt.. overatted
		
Click to expand...

Not proven 🤷‍♂️😂


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 5, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not proven 🤷‍♂️😂
		
Click to expand...

I really think man united have a player to match KDB all the way 

Greenwood+Rashford+Martial= 54 goals
Salah+Mane+Firmino = 51 goals this season.

Saw that earlier aswell which is interesting

I think next year Chelsea are going to push on, united look much more threatening and city are in scary form 

The league will be very competitive..


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 5, 2020)

Most exciting thing in that half was Origis hair do.
No final ball again.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 5, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Most exciting thing in that half was Origis hair do.
No final ball again.
		
Click to expand...

Someone should warn him that hairstyle rarely works well for players. Abel Xavier springs immediately to mind, shudders 😮, Cisse, Kone. Actually, is it a Liverpool (the city) thing 🤔🤭. One barber who likes the look?

Not got any better has it? 😆


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 5, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Someone should warn him that hairstyle rarely works well for players. Abel Xavier springs immediately to mind, shudders 😮, Cisse, Kone. Actually, is it a Liverpool (the city) thing 🤔🤭. One barber who likes the look?

Not got any better has it? 😆
		
Click to expand...

First bit of quality we score.
Think this does show we need some more quality in squad.
I think Klopp thinks the young lads will step up. They do look good.
I still think we need a quality striker.

Don’t really see many of them hair cuts in Liverpool, but havnt been out for a while.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 5, 2020)

Cant be doing with winning the league this early again, it's not very enjoyable these dead rubber games 😁

A tough game today against a well organised 9 men behind the ball with pace on the counter. 

Made up for young Jones getting a goal.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Cant be doing with winning the league this early again, it's not very enjoyable these dead rubber games 😁

A tough game today against a well organised 9 men behind the ball with pace on the counter.

Made up for young Jones getting a goal.
		
Click to expand...

Yes Alison proving why he is the best. Nothing to do really then a great save.
What do you make of Salha today I thought he was awful ?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 5, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes Alison proving why he is the best. Nothing to do really then a great save.
What do you make of Salha today I thought he was awful ?
		
Click to expand...

That's what the best keepers do. 

I thought Salah did well under the circumstances. Tough to play against that low block with little space.

Should've had 2 nail on pens.


----------



## fundy (Jul 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			That's what the best keepers do.

I thought Salah did well under the circumstances. Tough to play against that low block with little space.

Should've had 2 nail on pens.
		
Click to expand...


he got 5.7 from the mudeford judge for his swan dive


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			he got 5.7 from the mudeford judge for his swan dive 

Click to expand...

I couldn't possibly argue, You've got great experience watching Henry,Pires et al all those years😁😁

 It was still a foul on both occassions 😉


----------



## fundy (Jul 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I couldn't possibly argue, You've got great experience watching Henry,Pires et al all those years😁😁

It was still a foul on both occassions 😉
		
Click to expand...

you mean i couldnt possibly argue until the next sentence


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 5, 2020)

Respect the point for us today

We are more than safe imo

Easiest run in out of everyone .. greatest goal difference.. 4 points clear ... Got to play 3 of the 4 teams below us

Next 3 games we will be safe by the end of

Look very effective going forward ... 18 attempts on goal today away from home with only 30% possession .. effective with the ball

Poor second goal to concede but would have taken a point before kick off so not displeased

Point against Burnley.. 3 against Norwich then 1 against Watford should be more than enough


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			you mean i couldnt possibly argue until the next sentence 

Click to expand...

I just cant help myself 🤭🤭


----------



## fundy (Jul 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I just cant help myself 🤭🤭
		
Click to expand...

id be disappointed if it was any other way

arch the back, throw yourself up and let gravity do its thing


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			That's what the best keepers do.

I thought Salah did well under the circumstances. Tough to play against that low block with little space.

Should've had 2 nail on pens.
		
Click to expand...

Second one was a pen for me.
But he miss controls to many balls it looks like his concentration is just not there.
Final ball again , but it’s tough against teams that sit back.
Thought Villa played well.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			he got 5.7 from the mudeford judge for his swan dive 

Click to expand...

Some are better divers than others!
Dosnt mean it’s not a foul. Outside the box he gives that all day.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			id be disappointed if it was any other way

arch the back, throw yourself up and let gravity do its thing 

Click to expand...

He couldn't arch his back, he was pulled backwards twice 👍


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 5, 2020)

Brilliant from Saints .
To keep City out for that long .
Great goal as well.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 5, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Brilliant from Saints .
To keep City out for that long .
Great goal as well.
		
Click to expand...

Felt pep just changed for the sake of changing the team once again. Costs them

Why rest foden? This is perfect time to really let him make a claim for a space 

Taking mahrez off rather than Bernardo who was poor.. another poor decision


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 5, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Felt pep just changed for the sake of changing the team once again. Costs them

Why rest foden? This is perfect time to really let him make a claim for a space

Taking mahrez off rather than Bernardo who was poor.. another poor decision
		
Click to expand...

Did you watch the game? 

If it ended 7-1 it wouldve been deserved. 

Keeper MOTM for me, just one of those days.

What's surprised me is that's Citys 9th league defeat this season.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 5, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Did you watch the game? 

If it ended 7-1 it wouldve been deserved. 

Keeper MOTM for me, just one of those days.

What's surprised me is that's Citys 9th league defeat this season.
		
Click to expand...

They defended like hero's yes. However the choices from Silva at times were questionable .. especially at the end 

Mahrez should have stayed on with KDB

Foden should be starting every game until the season ends. Bed him in for next season. What else is there to play for right now?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 6, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			They defended like hero's yes. However the choices from Silva at times were questionable .. especially at the end

Mahrez should have stayed on with KDB

Foden should be starting every game until the season ends. Bed him in for next season. What else is there to play for right now?
		
Click to expand...

It's easier after the event to say he should've done this, Pep should've done that. The reality was they had numerous amount of very good chances  and a mixture of poor finishing, great defending, superb goalkeeping  and bit of bad luck cost them today. 

It seemed to me it was one of those games were they couldve still been playing now and still not scored/won.

One positive is we're level on pts with City since they said next season started on thursday 😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			With a 8pt headstart 20's is massive.

We managed to get Â£80 on after it being referred to a trader and initially only allowing Â£12.50 ðŸ˜‰

It'll be a massive task to win it, even more so by a distance but it's a Bet worth placing for interest alone.
		
Click to expand...

3 more points @fundy and its payout time😁😁🍾🍾🍾


----------



## Piece (Jul 6, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			They defended like hero's yes. However the choices from Silva at times were questionable .. especially at the end

Mahrez should have stayed on with KDB

Foden should be starting every game until the season ends. Bed him in for next season. *What else is there to play for right now?*

Click to expand...

Champions League?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 6, 2020)

Piece said:



			Champions League?
		
Click to expand...

That’s up to the judge.


----------



## sunshine (Jul 6, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			They defended like hero's yes. However the choices from Silva at times were questionable .. especially at the end

Mahrez should have stayed on with KDB

Foden should be starting every game until the season ends. Bed him in for next season. What else is there to play for right now?
		
Click to expand...

eh?

The Champions League. The FA Cup. They can actually win those competitions.

During July, City has 8 games in 24 days. Why burn out the same players in the league... they can't win the league and are assured of CL qualification next season.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jul 6, 2020)

sunshine said:



			eh?

The Champions League. The FA Cup. They can actually win those competitions.

During July, City has 8 games in 24 days. Why burn out the same players in the league... they can't win the league *and are assured of CL qualification next season.*

Click to expand...

That very much depends on what happens with their appeal over their 2 year ban.


----------



## Old Skier (Jul 6, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			That very much depends on what happens with their appeal over their 2 year ban.
		
Click to expand...

I thought the appeal was in to the court of arbitration and they are now just waiting for a decision


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jul 6, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			I thought the appeal was in to the court of arbitration and they are now just waiting for a decision
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, should have put it depends on the verdict of their appeal. I believe that the decision should be announced next week.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 6, 2020)

That's very positive https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53314309


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 6, 2020)

Well thats 2hrs of my life I'll never get back🙄

Snorefest


----------



## fundy (Jul 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Well thats 2hrs of my life I'll never get back🙄

Snorefest
		
Click to expand...


only excitement was the half a second it looked like Lloris and Son were gonna get it on


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 6, 2020)

Dreadful match, shocking performance from Everton, that was horrendous, summed up by Pickford lumping it to Bernard of all people in the 94th minute.


----------



## Rlburnside (Jul 6, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Dreadful match, shocking performance from Everton, that was horrendous, summed up by Pickford lumping it to Bernard of all people in the 94th minute.
		
Click to expand...

Yes it was dreadful, Everton were rubbish Spurs we’re not much better, what a bore.


----------



## sunshine (Jul 6, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			That very much depends on what happens with their appeal over their 2 year ban.
		
Click to expand...

Is this because you think Man City can't afford the best lawyers to win their appeal? Or because UEFA is renowned for its integrity?


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jul 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Well thats 2hrs of my life I'll never get back🙄

Snorefest
		
Click to expand...

When the commentator said "This is Dier" I wasn't sure if he was talking about the player or the match.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 6, 2020)

Has Ancellotti improved Everton or has he made them even more negative than they were under Allardyce?


----------



## Jensen (Jul 6, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Has Ancellotti improved Everton or has he made them even more negative than they were under Allardyce?
		
Click to expand...

He's clearly taken a leaf out of Mourinho's book 🤣🤣


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 6, 2020)

Highlight was lloris v son

Even lloris thinks he is a ....


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2020)

Probably the worst PL match I've seen for years.
I'm in my 60's, I can't afford to waste two hours watching that kind of dross!


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 7, 2020)

Slime said:



			Probably the worst PL match I've seen for years.
I'm in my 60's, I can't afford to waste two hours watching that kind of dross!   

Click to expand...

You didn't want the Liverpool v Everton game then? 🤣


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2020)

Here's a thought, who would any of you sooner have as your team's front three.
The United trio or the Liverpool trio?


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 7, 2020)

Slime said:



			Here's a thought, who would any of you sooner have as your team's front three.
The United trio or the Liverpool trio?
		
Click to expand...

For age I'd have United's .. also mane has to go to the acon some seasons which really costs a team 

Both sets are class but if I was picking now I'd like the younger set who can dominate for years to come 

But the real question is can we have Bruno?


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2020)

Slime said:



			Here's a thought, who would any of you sooner have as your team's front three.
The United trio or the Liverpool trio?
		
Click to expand...

can i have Munichs of next year plse


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 7, 2020)

Slime said:



			Here's a thought, who would any of you sooner have as your team's front three.
The United trio or the Liverpool trio?
		
Click to expand...

I'd take the liverpool trio. Done it for a while now, more reliable. Utd's may get to that point but they are not there yet. How long have utd fans been waiting for Martial to come good, is his temperament right etc?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 7, 2020)

Slime said:



			Here's a thought, who would any of you sooner have as your team's front three.
The United trio or the Liverpool trio?
		
Click to expand...

Rashford, Mane., Greenwood.
Firmino isn’t really a striker for me more a number 10. But him behind these three would be awesome.


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			For age I'd have United's .. also mane has to go to the acon some seasons which really costs a team

Both sets are class but if I was picking now I'd like the younger set who can dominate for years to come

*But the real question is can we have Bruno?*

Click to expand...


*NO !!*


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Rashford, Mane., Greenwood.
Firmino isn’t really a striker for me more a number 10. *But him behind these three would be awesome.*

Click to expand...

Bruno's already behind those three and he's awesome.


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2020)

Got to feel for Palace with that goal, so unlucky.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 7, 2020)

Slime said:



			Bruno's already behind those three and he's awesome.
		
Click to expand...

He’s not behind Mane?
He does look a very good player though.
Pity you can’t play him in goal, or CB.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 7, 2020)

Slime said:



			Got to feel for Palace with that goal, so unlucky.
		
Click to expand...

Can’t belive they are complaining they should have stopped.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 7, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			He’s not behind Mane?
He does look a very good player though.
Pity you can’t play him in goal, or CB.
		
Click to expand...

Luckily they have a better keeper available in Henderson 

My god DDG is an awful keeper


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Luckily they have a better keeper available in Henderson

*My god DDG is an awful keeper*

Click to expand...

Off form yes, awful no, not even close.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 7, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Luckily they have a better keeper available in Henderson

My god DDG is an awful keeper
		
Click to expand...

What’s happened to DDG he was fantastic a few years ago.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 7, 2020)

Slime said:



			Off form yes, awful no, not even close.
		
Click to expand...

Off form lasts a few months 

A season is well out of form

2 seasons? Got to question was he a 2 season wonder .


----------



## chrisd (Jul 7, 2020)

Some goal that from Zaha


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 7, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Off form lasts a few months

A season is well out of form

2 seasons? Got to question was he a 2 season wonder .
		
Click to expand...

When does off form become the norm? DG is in danger of doing a Joe Hart. He was superb for 2-3 years but right now he is a liability. They must not think much of the number 2 if he can't get a game still.


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			When does off form become the norm? DG is in danger of doing a Joe Hart. He was superb for 2-3 years but right now he is a liability.* They must not think much of the number 2 if he can't get a game still.*

Click to expand...

He can't get a game because he's currently contracted to Sheffield United.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 7, 2020)

Slime said:



			He can't get a game because he's currently contracted to Sheffield United.
		
Click to expand...

That was careless 😄. Okay, what about the fella that plays in the cup games, gets splinters in league games watching DG make another rick? If he isn't good enough to replace DG right now then he isn't good enough full stop.


----------



## Slime (Jul 7, 2020)

Romero is a terrific 'keeper, but De Gea is better ....................... it's that simple.
DDG has certainly saved far more points for United than he's gifted to opponents.


----------



## paddyc (Jul 7, 2020)

Come on gooners


----------



## paddyc (Jul 7, 2020)

Get in !! nice play by Ssko


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Get in !! nice play by Ssko
		
Click to expand...

cracking ball from Ceballos too


----------



## TheDiablo (Jul 7, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			When does off form become the norm? DG is in danger of doing a Joe Hart. He was superb for 2-3 years but right now he is a liability. They must not think much of the number 2 if he can't get a game still.
		
Click to expand...

De Gea was fantastic for 6 years, comfortably the best in the league and in the top 3 in the world. Not '2-3 years' 

Not really a fair comparison with Joe Hart, who was never good enough to tighten DDGs gloves. Joe Hart was heavily protected for a number of seasons - if he had started at a mid/low table club he would never have made it upwards - got lucky with timing at City and England. He just got found out eventually. 

But yes, DDG seems to have gone from a loss of form to terminal decline now


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2020)

Should be out of sight here, Lacazette got to do better with his 2 chances but Kasper been superb for Leicester


----------



## pendodave (Jul 7, 2020)

fundy said:



			Should be out of sight here, Lacazette got to do better with his 2 chances but Kasper been superb for Leicester
		
Click to expand...

Thought he did well with the first one, but should have buried the second. 
Still not entirely sure what was wrong with the Leicester goal. Kolasinac bought it for me... was there var? Seemed worthy of a look, but I didn't see it again.


----------



## paddyc (Jul 7, 2020)

fundy said:



			Should be out of sight here, Lacazette got to do better with his 2 chances but Kasper been superb for Leicester
		
Click to expand...

Your right mate really let them off the hook. arsenal dont win comfortably you should know that they like putting us through the  mill.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 7, 2020)

TheDiablo said:



			De Gea was fantastic for 6 years, comfortably the best in the league and in the top 3 in the world. Not '2-3 years' 

Not really a fair comparison with Joe Hart, who was never good enough to tighten DDGs gloves. Joe Hart was heavily protected for a number of seasons - if he had started at a mid/low table club he would never have made it upwards - got lucky with timing at City and England. He just got found out eventually. 

But yes, DDG seems to have gone from a loss of form to terminal decline now
		
Click to expand...

I mentioned Hart as he is an example of someone who's form dropped off a cliff. DG has always been better than Hart but I think you have done him a slight disservice. Hart was a good keeper for a decent period, watching him now is not a comfortable watch.

I didn't try to work out the DG timescale, 2-3 years sounded about right but if you say 6 I wouldn't argue. At the moment though I don't see a top 7 or 8 team that would take DG, his curve is definitely going downwards.


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2020)

horrid tackle by Eddie


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 7, 2020)

One of those that got worse the more you saw it. No point appealing it.

Arsenal have looked much better tonight, organised and snappy.


----------



## pendodave (Jul 7, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			One of those that got worse the more you saw it. No point appealing it.

Arsenal have looked much better tonight, organised and snappy.
		
Click to expand...

Odd one really. It was a bit unfortunate and quite red at the same time.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 7, 2020)

Price paid?


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2020)

Some good some bad again, expect thats all we can hope for at the moment

Played some lovely stuff in the first half and shouldve been out of sight then an individual error yet again puts us under pressure and end up lucky to hang on with 10 men in the end


----------



## sunshine (Jul 7, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd take the liverpool trio. Done it for a while now, more reliable. Utd's may get to that point but they are not there yet. How long have utd fans been waiting for Martial to come good, is his temperament right etc?
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Proven performers.


----------



## sunshine (Jul 7, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Luckily they have a better keeper available in Henderson

My god DDG is an awful keeper
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if you genuinely mean this or it's tongue in cheek?

De Gea has been a world class keeper for the best part of a decade. A poor run of form and he's now awful? Just as well you're not a scout


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 7, 2020)

sunshine said:



			I'm not sure if you genuinely mean this or it's tongue in cheek?

De Gea has been a world class keeper for the best part of a decade. A poor run of form and he's now awful? Just as well you're not a scout 

Click to expand...

He was close to a world class keeper but has been in decline for 3 seasons 

He prob isn't even in the top 4 in the league these days ..


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 7, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			He was close to a world class keeper but has been in decline for 3 seasons

He prob isn't even in the top 4 in the league these days ..
		
Click to expand...

name 4 better than him?


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 7, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			name 4 better than him?
		
Click to expand...

Ederson
Allison 
Kasper 
Henderson
Lloris 


Leno is borderline he is starting to look more and more solid 
Wolves keeper another good solid keeper 
Foster is an excellent keeper 

All of them right now better than de gea in his current state 

If he gets his form back then could go back to top 4 but they are stronger than they were before


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 8, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Ederson
Allison
Kasper
Henderson
Lloris


Leno is borderline he is starting to look more and more solid
Wolves keeper another good solid keeper
Foster is an excellent keeper

All of them right now better than de gea in his current state

If he gets his form back then could go back to top 4 but they are stronger than they were before
		
Click to expand...

I agree with Ederson  And Becker But the others are nowhere near DDG level.

DDG has had an indifferent 18months but his previous years have proved he’s a top keeper and miles ahead of the others up you’ve mentioned.

Lloris has been shocking for 2 seasons or more, Kasper  isn’t good enough to fasten DDG gloves And Henderson has played 31 PL games, yes he looks the part but he still needs to prove he’s better than DDG.

i think your overreacting on DDG tbh.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I agree with Ederson  And Becker But the others are nowhere near DDG level.

DDG has had an indifferent 18months but his previous years have proved he’s a top keeper and miles ahead of the others up you’ve mentioned.

Lloris has been shocking for 2 seasons or more, Kasper  isn’t good enough to fasten DDG gloves And Henderson has played 31 PL games, yes he looks the part but he still needs to prove he’s better than DDG.

i think your overreacting on DDG tbh.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.skysports.com/football/...-form-more-than-just-a-blip-says-gary-neville

Very good article by Gary Neville on him.

Kasper is an excellent keeper. Very underated


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 8, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Ederson
Allison 
Kasper 
Henderson
Lloris 


Leno is borderline he is starting to look more and more solid 
Wolves keeper another good solid keeper 
Foster is an excellent keeper 

All of them right now better than de gea in his current state 

If he gets his form back then could go back to top 4 but they are stronger than they were before
		
Click to expand...

As above, Lloris is as inconsistent imo but no worse, Patricio is the Wolves keeper and I put him above current DG. Heaton and Pope are ones that I would trust more right now as well. That has taken us down to 7 keepers before picking him. There are others I would have as equivalent right now as well.

For those who still rate him, Pauljames87 and myself are not criticising old DG, we are rating him based on the last 24 months. Old DG was top 3 in the world for me. How long do you play someone based on a dip in form and when do you acknowledge it may be more than that? 2 years is a pretty long dip.


----------



## Slime (Jul 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			name 4 better than him?
		
Click to expand...




pauljames87 said:



			Ederson
Allison
*Kasper
Henderson
Lloris*

Click to expand...





.................. and then Heaton and Pope are mentioned! 


Seriously?


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 8, 2020)

Patricio never gets anywhere near the respect he deserves. But of course, I'm biased.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 8, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			As above, Lloris is as inconsistent imo but no worse, Patricio is the Wolves keeper and I put him above current DG. Heaton and Pope are ones that I would trust more right now as well. That has taken us down to 7 keepers before picking him. There are others I would have as equivalent right now as well.

For those who still rate him, Pauljames87 and myself are not criticising old DG, we are rating him based on the last 24 months. Old DG was top 3 in the world for me. How long do you play someone based on a dip in form and when do you acknowledge it may be more than that? 2 years is a pretty long dip.
		
Click to expand...

I think his level has dropped.
that being said, he usually still pulls of his fair share of quality that others wouldn’t. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a keeper save as many shots with his feet as DDG.

re the list. I’d have him 3rd atm. The keeps at the smaller clubs could change my mind if they got a shot at a big club, but its a whole different ball game when at the to- clubs. Plenty of keepers have looked the best if the bunch before Or after their big move failed.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 8, 2020)

Right now Henderson and Schmeichel are playing better than DDG, without doubt. I’d bring Henderson back next year to rival DDG.


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 8, 2020)

Some nasty stud marks on Mustafi's head this morning from being kicked by Vardy.  Can't really see how this wasn't deemed dangerous play.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 8, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			What difference would a move to a bigger club make? Wouldn't they have less shots to face? Interested on your thinking there.
		
Click to expand...

in recent years DDG has quite often faced more shots than any keeper in the top half. At his peak he single handedly got em top 4,  it I agree that’s not usually the norm. 

That being said, the logic in my thinking is that shot stopping is only part of the task. The best keepers are there when needed most. facing/saving more shots but at a lower % Doesn’t make a keeper better.

Some examples that come to mind for me over the years are. Freidel (at villa), James (pompey), mignolet (Sunderland). All got lots of plaudits as promising or best of the rest. But none could perform as well when they had their shot.


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 8, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			in recent years DDG has quite often faced more shots than any keeper in the top half. At his peak he single handedly got em top 4,  it I agree that’s not usually the norm.

That being said, the logic in my thinking is that shot stopping is only part of the task. The best keepers are there when needed most. facing/saving more shots but at a lower % Doesn’t make a keeper better.

Some examples that come to mind for me over the years are. Freidel (at villa), James (pompey), mignolet (Sunderland). All got lots of plaudits as promising or best of the rest. But none could perform as well when they had their shot.
		
Click to expand...

I answered it myself hence the deleted post 

Think we saw with Alisson against the Villa, didn't have much to do but was on it when needed, the top keepers concentration has to be switched on at all times as they'll have large parts of the game doing bugger all.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 8, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			I answered it myself hence the deleted post 

Think we saw with Alisson against the Villa, didn't have much to do but was on it when needed, the top keepers concentration has to be switched on at all times as they'll have large parts of the game doing bugger all.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly. Hence why until one of the guys mentioned gets a move and proves they’re better than just saving shots whilst busy. I’ll reserve judgement.

Personally for England I’d like to see Henderson start at UTD, but that would be a massive call.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 8, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Some nasty stud marks on Mustafi's head this morning from being kicked by Vardy.  Can't really see how this wasn't deemed dangerous play.
		
Click to expand...

Because he had his head 12” off the ground.
They both fell over and he head butted the back of Vardys boot.
Accidents happen in a contact sport.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 8, 2020)

You cannot put De Gea down to form now, he's been poor for a good two years. It's a decline. I don't know what went wrong for him, maybe he peaked earlier than goalies normally do because he broke through so young. But he just doesn't make the saves he used to make, and just looks an average Premier League shot stopper these days. Go back 3 years and he was the best keeper in the world. Now he's maybe the 4th best in the Prem.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 8, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I think his level has dropped.
that being said, he usually still pulls of his fair share of quality that others wouldn’t. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a keeper save as many shots with his feet as DDG.

re the list. I’d have him 3rd atm. The keeps at the smaller clubs could change my mind if they got a shot at a big club, but its a whole different ball game when at the to- clubs. Plenty of keepers have looked the best if the bunch before Or after their big move failed.
		
Click to expand...

I still think he’s a great keeper.
But at a club like Man Utd his high profile mistakes get highlited.
And he has made a few the last couple of seasons.
Before that how many mom trophy’s did he win , lots.
Something is wrong could be in his head concentrating, who knows , strange one.
Maybe a top rival is needed ,not out on loan to push him for his place.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 8, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I still think he’s a great keeper.
But at a club like Man Utd his high profile mistakes get highlited.
And he has made a few the last couple of seasons.
Before that how many mom trophy’s did he win , lots.
Something is wrong could be in his head concentrating, who knows , strange one.
Maybe a top rival is needed ,not out on loan to push him for his place.
		
Click to expand...

A few? I read that he's made 7 mistakes leading to goals this season alone. The joint highest in the league. It used to be the United's defence crapping the bed and he was the one bailing them out.


----------



## PaulS (Jul 8, 2020)

Interesting couple of questions 

On the Man Utd front three vs Liverpool front three surely you go with the established proven group that  have helped their team win all before them. Man Utd look bright and a lot of potential but Martial has had that potential for a number of years now and can’t find any consistency, Rashford I’m not sure can find the best position for him and doesn’t seem to score enough from open play - Greenwood looks a talent that’s for sure. But until they can do it consistently and get their team over the line then it’s the Liverpool bunch handsdown

On to the question on De Gea - it wasn’t long ago he was the best in the world and he is understand the best paid player in the league but he has had issues over the last couple of years that has dropped out of that top level that we currently see Alisson sit at with Ederson just behind.

The Premiership has a number of good GK’s behind the top two - Henderson , Patricio and De Gea are probably the best of the next bunch. What Man Utd do next year with Henderson and De Gea will be interesting- can see De Gea going and Henderson being given his chance . 

Either way I’ll take any of them at Bristol City


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 8, 2020)

DDG......many seem to think he’s gone off the boil and on the way down, but how much of that is due to the manager he has?
It is said a good manager improves a player and brings more out of that player, but likewise can the wrong manager diminish a players performance?


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 8, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			DDG......many seem to think he’s gone off the boil and on the way down, but how much of that is due to the manager he has?
It is said a good manager improves a player and brings more out of that player, but likewise can the wrong manager diminish a players performance?
		
Click to expand...

I'm just trying to imagine how a bad manager can make you let the ball slip through your hands, let the ball slip through your legs or position yourself badly for a cross/shot 🤔


----------



## Junior (Jul 8, 2020)

Forms temporary.   I think that through my red tinted glasses OGS is doing the right thing by sticking with DDG.  His form doesn't warrant him being dropped at all.  To drop him and have him lose confidence would be the worse move.  

Just for context though.....since we got done by the Scousers at the mid/end of Jan, Man U have :- 
- played 17 and kept a clean sheet in 12.  
- Scored 45 and conceded 5.  Granted,  these stats include putting 5 past LASK, Tangmere and Brugge.  But, we also kept clean sheets against City (twice), Chelsea, Leicester,  Wolves.  

As is the old adage with keepers,  when they make a mistake, they are suddenly thrust into the limelight.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 8, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			A few? I read that he's made 7 mistakes leading to goals this season alone. The joint highest in the league. *It used to be the United's defence crapping the bed and he was the one bailing them out*.
		
Click to expand...

They still do!! Maguire is very overrated imo, poor positional play often ends in the too many last ditch tackles he likes to make.

But he's Yernited captain and England's 1st choice so this gets overlooked.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 8, 2020)

Slime said:







.................. and then Heaton and Pope are mentioned!


Seriously?
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂 That's almost as outrageous as your "yernited have the best back 4" shout earlier this season🤭


----------



## fundy (Jul 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			3 more points @fundy and its payout time😁😁🍾🍾🍾
		
Click to expand...


not fancy the 1000/1 theyre now offering on 10 pts or less lol


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 8, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			in recent years DDG has quite often faced more shots than any keeper in the top half. At his peak he single handedly got em top 4,  it I agree that’s not usually the norm.

That being said, the logic in my thinking is that shot stopping is only part of the task. The best keepers are there when needed most. facing/saving more shots but at a lower % Doesn’t make a keeper better.

Some examples that come to mind for me over the years are. Freidel (at villa), James (pompey), mignolet (Sunderland). All got lots of plaudits as promising or best of the rest. But none could perform as well when they had their shot.
		
Click to expand...


There is a common thread amongst them keepers.....


----------



## Junior (Jul 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			They still do!! Maguire is very overrated imo, poor positional play often ends in the too many last ditch tackles he likes to make.

But he's Yernited captain and England's 1st choice so this gets overlooked.
		
Click to expand...

Nathan Ake seems to be the one who is being watched by a few teams.  Not seen a lot of him but I think Bailly is a serious player.  They just need to keep him fit.  Having him and Maguire form a regular partnership is the way forward.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 8, 2020)

Junior said:



			Nathan Ake seems to be the one who is being watched by a few teams.  Not seen a lot of him but I think Bailly is a serious player.  They just need to keep him fit.
		
Click to expand...

I'd rather have Purple........


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 8, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			There is a common thread amongst them keepers.....

Click to expand...

The only one you are missing, can't believe he was left off that list, was Jordan. If you want the full set.............


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 8, 2020)

For me DDG was woeful for approx 12-18 months when he first come, easily bullied and looked like a very bad signing.

For 2-3 years he was one of the best in the world, and behind a defence that wasnt woeful but not great either. Then he was world class behind a defence that was struggling and a bit like a mid-table keeper he seemed to be making tonnes of great saves, but not necessarily keeping clean sheets, and he was keeping a potentially 2-3 goal defeat down to a 1 goal defeat / draw or win. Not a hell of a lot of mistakes in this 5-6 year period.

The last year or so he is now behind a better defence, but when his is making a mistake its more noticeable, and I do think he has dropped from his previous consistent level, but he is still a very good keeper. He may be stale or need a move. If I was picking a team tomorrow and Alison and Ederson werent available, I'd still pick him.

#None of these opinions may stand up to statistical analysis.


----------



## pendodave (Jul 8, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			For me DDG was woeful for approx 12-18 months when he first come, easily bullied and looked like a very bad signing.

For 2-3 years he was one of the best in the world, and behind a defence that wasnt woeful but not great either. Then he was world class behind a defence that was struggling and a bit like a mid-table keeper he seemed to be making tonnes of great saves, but not necessarily keeping clean sheets, and he was keeping a potentially 2-3 goal defeat down to a 1 goal defeat / draw or win. Not a hell of a lot of mistakes in this 5-6 year period.

The last year or so he is now behind a better defence, but when his is making a mistake its more noticeable, and I do think he has dropped from his previous consistent level, but he is still a very good keeper. He may be stale or need a move. If I was picking a team tomorrow and Alison and Ederson werent available, I'd still pick him.

#None of these opinions may stand up to statistical analysis.

Click to expand...

This seems fair to me. Except I'm not sure about the last sentence. Partly because I don't watch enough to have a valid opinion of all the others.
DDG has always been a good stopper, but that's not the same as being a good keeper.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 8, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			For me DDG was woeful for approx 12-18 months when he first come, easily bullied and looked like a very bad signing.

For 2-3 years he was one of the best in the world, and behind a defence that wasnt woeful but not great either. Then he was world class behind a defence that was struggling and a bit like a mid-table keeper he seemed to be making tonnes of great saves, but not necessarily keeping clean sheets, and he was keeping a potentially 2-3 goal defeat down to a 1 goal defeat / draw or win. Not a hell of a lot of mistakes in this 5-6 year period.

The last year or so he is now behind a better defence, but when his is making a mistake its more noticeable, and I do think he has dropped from his previous consistent level, but he is still a very good keeper. He may be stale or need a move. If I was picking a team tomorrow and Alison and Ederson werent available, I'd still pick him.

#None of these opinions may stand up to statistical analysis.

Click to expand...

+1


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2020)

Dier gets banned and fined - https://www.skysports.com/football/...nder-given-four-match-ban-for-confronting-fan 

Not sure Mourinho will be happy


----------



## MegaSteve (Jul 8, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Dier gets banned and fined - https://www.skysports.com/football/...nder-given-four-match-ban-for-confronting-fan

Not sure Mourinho will be happy
		
Click to expand...


Seeing Mourinho and happy in the same sentence seems a tad incongruous to me...


----------



## GG26 (Jul 8, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			For me DDG was woeful for approx 12-18 months when he first come, easily bullied and looked like a very bad signing.

For 2-3 years he was one of the best in the world, and behind a defence that wasnt woeful but not great either. Then he was world class behind a defence that was struggling and a bit like a mid-table keeper he seemed to be making tonnes of great saves, but not necessarily keeping clean sheets, and he was keeping a potentially 2-3 goal defeat down to a 1 goal defeat / draw or win. Not a hell of a lot of mistakes in this 5-6 year period.

The last year or so he is now behind a better defence, but when his is making a mistake its more noticeable, and I do think he has dropped from his previous consistent level, but he is still a very good keeper. He may be stale or need a move. If I was picking a team tomorrow and Alison and Ederson werent available, I'd still pick him.

#None of these opinions may stand up to statistical analysis.

Click to expand...

I wouldn’t change Kasper for any of them at the moment.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 8, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Patricio never gets anywhere near the respect he deserves. But of course, I'm biased.
		
Click to expand...

It's because he wears the number 12

If he wore a keepers number he would be remembered 

Great player


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 8, 2020)

fundy said:



			not fancy the 1000/1 theyre now offering on 10 pts or less lol
		
Click to expand...

Dont be greedy Sir. You wont see that price about Liverpool in the next few seasons that's for sure.


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 8, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			It's because he wears the number 12

If he wore a keepers number he would be remembered

Great player
		
Click to expand...

11.

He doesn't wear number 1 as we kinda retired it when our other keeper (Carl Ikeme) got leukaemia.

Edit: Sorry, that sounded really arsey.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 8, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			11.

He doesn't wear number 1 as we kinda retired it when our other keeper (Carl Ikeme) got leukaemia.

Edit: Sorry, that sounded really arsey.
		
Click to expand...

yeah 11 is defo not a keeper number!!

I get the retiring of numbers however you cant have a keeper wearing another first team number thats just wrong

just like when Gyan was it for sunderland played up top with a number 2 i believe? or gallas wearing number 10

just wrong on so many levels

13 is a good number for a keeper or anything above 15


----------



## fundy (Jul 8, 2020)

who gives a **** what number he has on his back?

id take Patricio with any number he wants over most keepers in the prem personally


----------



## sunshine (Jul 8, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			yeah 11 is defo not a keeper number!!

I get the retiring of numbers however you cant have a keeper wearing another first team number thats just wrong

just like when Gyan was it for sunderland played up top with a number 2 i believe? or gallas wearing number 10

*just wrong on so many levels*

13 is a good number for a keeper or anything above 15
		
Click to expand...

How many levels? I'd like to understand which levels and why.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 8, 2020)

sunshine said:



			How many levels? I'd like to understand which levels and why.
		
Click to expand...

Come on, it's old school. Can you imagine someone writing a book about famous number 35's? 😁. I still miss the days of 1-11, each position having it's own number.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 8, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Come on, it's old school. Can you imagine someone writing a book about famous number 35's? 😁. I still miss the days of 1-11, each position having it's own number.
		
Click to expand...

 Do you also want every team to go back to 4-4-2 to match those numbers? 😬


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 8, 2020)

fundy said:



			who gives a **** what number he has on his back?

id take Patricio with any number he wants over most keepers in the prem personally
		
Click to expand...

Not saying I don't rate him cuz of a number
Just saying I forgot about him

Very good keeper 

The number is just wrong.


----------



## sunshine (Jul 8, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Come on, it's old school. Can you imagine someone writing a book about famous number 35's? 😁. I still miss the days of 1-11, each position having it's own number.
		
Click to expand...

OK, so that's one level. What are all the other levels?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 8, 2020)

sunshine said:



			OK, so that's one level. What are all the other levels?
		
Click to expand...

Wrong poster 😄. You will have to ask Pauljames87 that one. It could just be a phrase though, not to be taken literally 🤔


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 8, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Do you also want every team to go back to 4-4-2 to match those numbers? 😬
		
Click to expand...

Now you're talking 😃. Who doesn't long for two upfront again? Striker partnerships were wonderful things ❤

4-4-2, shirts 1-11, I'm getting all nostalgic 😍


----------



## hairball_89 (Jul 8, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Now you're talking 😃. Who doesn't long for two upfront again? Striker partnerships were wonderful things ❤

4-4-2, shirts 1-11, I'm getting all nostalgic 😍
		
Click to expand...

Went to watch Tonbridge Angels, my local non-league team, end of last year. It was great! 4-4-2 - big man / little man up top. overweight bruiser and little skilful centre mids, 2 quickest players in the team as the wingers, the tall old guys at centre back and the 2 least skilled players in the 11 at full back! Brilliant!


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 8, 2020)

Really don't like Karen carney on bt sport 

"Yarmenlko is the best in the league at coming in from right onto his left foot"

No he isn't .. he wouldn't be playing for us for one

Mahrez could be the best would need to look up 

Salah? He left footed?


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 8, 2020)

We won't even get Europa League at this rate.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 8, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Now you're talking 😃. Who doesn't long for two upfront again? Striker partnerships were wonderful things ❤

4-4-2, shirts 1-11, I'm getting all nostalgic 😍
		
Click to expand...

Jumpers for goalposts!


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 8, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Really don't like Karen carney on bt sport

"Yarmenlko is the best in the league at coming in from right onto his left foot"

No he isn't .. he wouldn't be playing for us for one

Mahrez could be the best would need to look up

Salah? He left footed?
		
Click to expand...

Whenever I see her I can't help thinking she looks like Gareth Bale.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 8, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Whenever I see her I can't help thinking she looks like Gareth Bale.
		
Click to expand...

Shes probably more robust


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 8, 2020)

Gomez is a lucky lad there.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 8, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Gomez is a lucky lad there.
		
Click to expand...

Think a yellow was right.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 8, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Gomez is a lucky lad there.
		
Click to expand...

He was .
It’s a concern how easy teams have got through us since the comeback.
We looked like we didn’t get out of second gear.
But thought they played quite well.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 8, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Think a yellow was right.
		
Click to expand...

I think to many players are going down very easy in all the games.
Hand on the shoulder should not have players hitting the deck


----------



## MegaSteve (Jul 8, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Do you also want every team to go back to 4-4-2 to match those numbers? 😬
		
Click to expand...


Think you'll find the WM formation was the first fit for 1-11 ...


----------



## fundy (Jul 8, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think to many players are going down very easy in all the games.
Hand on the shoulder should not have players hitting the deck
		
Click to expand...


like Salah the other day when you wanted a pen for arching his back and plummeting?

plenty of players hit the deck too often but you cant claim that then want a pen when its yours that does it


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 8, 2020)

fundy said:



			like Salah the other day when you wanted a pen for arching his back and plummeting?

plenty of players hit the deck too often but you cant claim that then want a pen when its yours that does it
		
Click to expand...

Yes that includes Liverpool players.
It’s still a foul .
But it’s not enough to hit the floor the way they do.
If the ref gave the foul when it is a foul players would not have to embellish it.
There was one on Salah tonight in the box but he stayed on his feet ,result nothing.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 9, 2020)

Must say burnley are a well drilled team. Would love to see what could be done by Dyche with a bit of money aswell to buy who he wants.

They weathered the "storm" for want a better word for us.. took advantage of our constant poor defending and then defended like heros.

Pope is up there in the keeper league for sure.. top clean sheets atm.. what a performance tonight.. two key moments tonight.. 

1. burnley just scored.. antonio goes one on one.. pope makes himself huge and antonio can only find the post.. great keeping.. kept the momentum with burnley.

2. Haller has just come on.. first touch of the ball is to win it in the box.. takes a shot.. pope saves .. imagine if that had gone in the sprite would instantly be lifted to the players

top keeper..

well played


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 9, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			He was .
It’s a concern how easy teams have got through us since the comeback.
We looked like we didn’t get out of second gear.
But thought they played quite well.
		
Click to expand...

I only saw the second half, mistakenly tried Warrior Nun on Netflix which was terrible. Anyway, smashing match to watch, Brighton are very pleasant on the eye. I don't think it is a big surprise that you are not quite as tight since winning the league. These games must be an anti climax after the euphoria of winning, not helped by the empty grounds. Piling forward is easy in these circumstances but doing the dull, difficult but essential things become a little harder. Concentration only needs to drop by a few percentage points and these minor errors creep in. I think you need the end of the season as much as anyone, plenty are in that boat.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 9, 2020)

Justice in the Everton game imo. Ward Prowse was falling over and into Gomes, a hugely soft penalty. Saying that, it's all Southampton so far.

Okay, Ings goal was probably also justice for their play so far 😆😥


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 9, 2020)

What the hell is going on with David Brooks shorts?? One leg appears to be much shorter than the other.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 9, 2020)

Everton scored  Quality ball from Digne, taken beautifully by Richarlison and smashed it. Nice goal, but totally undeserved, we've been rubbish yet again.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 9, 2020)

Thought the break suited spurs with the injuries and the national service issues 

They look like their on the beach


----------



## Fish (Jul 9, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Thought the break suited spurs with the injuries and the national service issues 

They look like their on the beach
		
Click to expand...

Great isn’t it, just about holding on to a top [half] of the league table spot 😜


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 9, 2020)

The All or Nothing series is going to be fascinating viewing!


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 9, 2020)

Fish said:



			Great isn’t it, just about holding on to a top [half] of the league table spot 😜
		
Click to expand...

 When tripper left he said something about trouble brewing behind scenes at spurs 

That added with zero proper investment for a few windows they have gone so far backwards


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 9, 2020)

Pen?? 😂😂😂😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 9, 2020)

The even funnier thing is theres a fully qualified arbiter of the rules in a bunker somewhere watching a screen who actually agrees it's a pen 😂😂😂


----------



## adam6177 (Jul 9, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Pen?? 😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

This doesn't include the live game.

I think I'm going to start betting on how many penalties they get awarded each game.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 9, 2020)

They need 1 more to break the record for most penalties in a PL season according to the stats that flashed up on the screen after it went in. Mad.


----------



## Slime (Jul 9, 2020)

That was, quite simply, NOT a penalty.
Those VAR officials must be on the fizzy lemonades tonight.


----------



## Slime (Jul 9, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			They need 1 more to break the record for most penalties in a PL season according to the stats that flashed up on the screen after it went in. Mad.
		
Click to expand...

..................... and if they win by three or more they'll become the first EPL team to ever win four consecutive games by at least three goals.


----------



## Fish (Jul 9, 2020)

adam6177 said:



			This doesn't include the live game.

I think I'm going to start betting on how many penalties they get awarded each game.
	View attachment 31559

Click to expand...

Manchester United have won 13 penalties in the Premier League this season; no team have ever been awarded more in a single campaign in the competition!


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 9, 2020)

Greenwood again. So lethal with both feet when he gets the opportunity. Fantastic counter that, United scary good going forward.


----------



## Slime (Jul 9, 2020)

Now, that was some finish for a nipper!


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 9, 2020)

I can understand Moss giving the pen in real time. 

I will never understand how a ref can sit and watch numerous clips of it and say it's a pen. 

That sums up the standard of english referees.


----------



## Slime (Jul 9, 2020)

Bruno with yet another assist.
Why weren't the elite of Europe looking at him or bidding for him when he was on the market?


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 9, 2020)

Slime said:



			Bruno with yet another assist.
Why weren't the elite of Europe looking at him or bidding for him when he was on the market?
		
Click to expand...

Won't cut it in prem 🤣


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 9, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Thought the break suited spurs with the injuries and the national service issues

They look like their on the beach
		
Click to expand...

It's clear that Mourinho worked exclusively on defence in the post-lockdown mini pre-season. Three clean sheets when before that we had barely any. It's what Jose does best. Unfortunately we have absolutely no idea how to create chances anymore. Bournemouth is a team we used to brush aside easily because they're so open and it played into our hands. But we just can't do it anymore. Fair play for improving the defence Jose (Sheffield game aside..), but the forward play isn't working for us at all. This season is over anyway, where we finish is irrelevant now, we just need to use the games to figure out what works and what we can build upon, or more to the point why it isn't working.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 9, 2020)

Slime said:



			Bruno with yet another assist.
Why weren't the elite of Europe looking at him or bidding for him when he was on the market?
		
Click to expand...

If only they all knew how good his diving skills were 😉


----------



## Slime (Jul 9, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			If only they all knew how good his diving skills were 😉
		
Click to expand...

If they did you'd have been after him in a flash.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 9, 2020)

adam6177 said:



			This doesn't include the live game.

I think I'm going to start betting on how many penalties they get awarded each game.
	View attachment 31559

Click to expand...

Poor old Ev only getting 1 pen,  considering how much time Richarlison spends on the deck I'd expect them to have had more.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 9, 2020)

Slime said:



			If they did you'd have been after him in a flash.



Click to expand...

He wouldnt get in our team.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 9, 2020)

Slime said:



			That was, quite simply, NOT a penalty.
Those VAR officials must be on the fizzy lemonades tonight.
		
Click to expand...

Why is Bruno on the floor screaming and holding his shin?
He’s a diver and very good at it.

Think that sums up VAR for me.
They back up the refs.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 9, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Why is Bruno on the floor screaming and holding his shin?
He’s a diver and very good at it.

Think that sums up VAR for me.
They back up the refs.
		
Click to expand...

Don the tin hat CC, cue a load of whataboutery's 😂😂


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 9, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Don the tin hat CC, cue a load of whataboutery's 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

They all do it inc ours .
That’s a foul and a dive holding his shin to try and cover up .
Only people who have never played the game could think that’s a pen.
So very surprised at OGS comment on motd.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 9, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			They all do it inc ours .
That’s a foul and a dive holding his shin to try and cover up .
Only people who have never played the game could think that’s a pen.
*So very surprised at OGS comment on motd*.
		
Click to expand...

He never really defended that did he?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 9, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			He never really defended that did he?
		
Click to expand...

He said “it was a foul”?.?
“If you do some skills and land on top of someone trying to tackle you it’s a pen”


----------



## Rlburnside (Jul 9, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			It's clear that Mourinho worked exclusively on defence in the post-lockdown mini pre-season. Three clean sheets when before that we had barely any. It's what Jose does best. Unfortunately we have absolutely no idea how to create chances anymore. Bournemouth is a team we used to brush aside easily because they're so open and it played into our hands. But we just can't do it anymore. Fair play for improving the defence Jose (Sheffield game aside..), but the forward play isn't working for us at all. This season is over anyway, where we finish is irrelevant now, we just need to use the games to figure out what works and what we can build upon, or more to the point why it isn't working.
		
Click to expand...

The defense has improved but what concerns me he has turned a decent squad of players into a team with no confidence and all underperforming, the negative tactics are terrible to watch. Very similar to his last season at Man U. 

I can’t see it will get any better and I fear we are going to get well beat against Arsenal. 

It was telling the comment about Ole Gunner likes to try and keep the same starting eleven, it’s something we hardly ever do, I know it’s all about the squad nowdays but dropping players does nothing to help players confidence. 

Only hope is that’s against Arsenal and the players show a bit more fight and passion.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 9, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			He said “it was a foul”?.?
“If you do some skills and land on top of someone trying to tackle you it’s a pen”
		
Click to expand...

😁😁😁 Embarrassing.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 9, 2020)

VAR admitted they got three big decisions wrong.
They weren’t difficult ones either.
It’s not fit for purpose while the same old refs are just backing up the mistakes from the onfield ref.

I think they got the one in the Everton game wrong as well.
The guy who brought Richarlason down in the D got yellow .
He is through on goal so if it’s a foul and a card it’s red


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 9, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			He is through on goal so if it’s a foul and a card it’s red
		
Click to expand...

 Not if it’s a penalty and not if it’s not considered to be denying a clear goalscoring opportunity.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 9, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Not if it’s a penalty and not if it’s not considered to be denying a clear goalscoring opportunity.
		
Click to expand...

How’s that not a clear goal scoring opportunity.
A premier league striker inside the D of your opponents penalty area one on one with the keeper.
If that’s not a clear goal scoring opportunity I don’t know what is.
But unfortunately VAR don’t either.


----------



## fundy (Jul 10, 2020)

*Dan Walker* @mrdanwalker
50m


In case you missed it, we spoke to the PL match centre tonight and they confirmed Fernandes penalty: WRONG decision, should have been overturned   Ward-Prowse penalty: WRONG decision, should have been overturned   Kane non penalty: WRONG decision, should have been given


----------



## DanFST (Jul 10, 2020)

How is this not a red


They spent 6 minutes chalking off our first goal last week vs chelsea. No one bothered to look at this.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 10, 2020)

DanFST said:



How is this not a red


They spent 6 minutes chalking off our first goal last week vs chelsea. No one bothered to look at this.
		
Click to expand...

He is a proper thug


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 10, 2020)

So just the 3 wrong penalty decisions last night.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 10, 2020)

Slime said:



			Bruno with yet another assist.
Why weren't the elite of Europe looking at him or bidding for him when he was on the market?
		
Click to expand...

😂😂


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 10, 2020)

Pogba suddenly looks engaged an interested as a player and a different animal on the pitch when he wants to play. Shame you can't rely on him to be in that mood every time he plays and drifts in and out of games


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 10, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			How’s that not a clear goal scoring opportunity.
A premier league striker inside the D of your opponents penalty area one on one with the keeper.
If that’s not a clear goal scoring opportunity I don’t know what is.
But unfortunately VAR don’t either.
		
Click to expand...

If that was a foul it had to be a red. I don't see how you can reach any other conclusion. It's like one of those charts where each answer leads to different conclusions. 

Was it a foul?

No, play continues 
Yes, was the player through on goal? 

No, free kick, possible yellow card
Yes, was another defender in the vicinity and could they have stopped a goal scoring opportunity?

Yes, free kick, yellow card
No, free kick, red card

It isn't difficult and if that was not preventing a clear goal scoring opportunity then I'm not sure what is a clear goal scoring opportunity? When did a one on one with a keeper stop being a clear goal scoring opportunity? (The only answer to that is 'when it is Joelinton through on goal' 😆)

All of this doesn't cover up our display in the last couple of games. We have no control in midfield, the front players are being starved of decent possession in the top third of the pitch. Sidibe strengthened the right side last night second half. Hopefully he will start next game and we can put Iwobi on the bench, someone else's bench ideally.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 10, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If that was a foul it had to be a red. I don't see how you can reach any other conclusion. It's like one of those charts where each answer leads to different conclusions. 

Was it a foul?

No, play continues 
Yes, was the player through on goal? 

No, free kick, possible yellow card
Yes, was another defender in the vicinity and could they have stopped a goal scoring opportunity?

Yes, free kick, yellow card
No, free kick, red card

It isn't difficult and if that was not preventing a clear goal scoring opportunity then I'm not sure what is a clear goal scoring opportunity? When did a one on one with a keeper stop being a clear goal scoring opportunity? (The only answer to that is 'when it is Joelinton through on goal' 😆)

All of this doesn't cover up our display in the last couple of games. We have no control in midfield, the front players are being starved of decent possession in the top third of the pitch. Sidibe strengthened the right side last night second half. Hopefully he will start next game and we can put Iwobi on the bench, someone else's bench ideally.
		
Click to expand...

Haven't seen anything of what's being spoken but what about the double jeopardy law they brought in so if you get the pen you don't automatically get the red card anymore 

Can't comment fully without seeing but that rule is forgotten a lot by fans


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 10, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Haven't seen anything of what's being spoken but what about the double jeopardy law they brought in so if you get the pen you don't automatically get the red card anymore 

Can't comment fully without seeing but that rule is forgotten a lot by fans
		
Click to expand...

The foul was outside the penalty area, in the D. 

No harm in reminding people about double jeopardy though 👍.

This is about a foul on Richarlison. The penalty given to and missed by Southampton has been deemed a wrong decision over night.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 10, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Pogba suddenly looks engaged an interested as a player and a different animal on the pitch when he wants to play. Shame you can't rely on him to be in that mood every time he plays and drifts in and out of games
		
Click to expand...

Or he’s finally being played to his strengths?


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 10, 2020)

DanFST said:



How is this not a red


They spent 6 minutes chalking off our first goal last week vs chelsea. No one bothered to look at this.
		
Click to expand...

No way that’s a red card. Looks like the West Ham player is cradling an injury he didn’t actually get to me.


----------



## PaulS (Jul 10, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Or he’s finally being played to his strengths?
		
Click to expand...

Or there is a transfer window coming up and what perfect time to show he can actually play


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 10, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			No way that’s a red card. Looks like the West Ham player is cradling an injury he didn’t actually get to me.
		
Click to expand...

From the one replay angle you can't see how much contact he makes. I think he largely missed the player's leg hence why it was only a yellow. But would have to see it from another angle.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 10, 2020)

PaulS said:



			Or there is a transfer window coming up and what perfect time to show he can actually play
		
Click to expand...

Nah, I’ll stick with the truth.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 10, 2020)

DanFST said:



How is this not a red


They spent 6 minutes chalking off our first goal last week vs chelsea. No one bothered to look at this.
		
Click to expand...

Yes that was a red !


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 10, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The foul was outside the penalty area, in the D.

No harm in reminding people about double jeopardy though 👍.

This is about a foul on Richarlison. The penalty given to and missed by Southampton has been deemed a wrong decision over night.
		
Click to expand...

If it’s taken them overnight to see that’s not a pen it’s not fit for purpose.
One look on motd I could see Ward Prowse jumps up in the air into the defender.
It’s the wincing on faces and screaming as players hit the floor I don’t like.
With there being no crowd this is more noticeable.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 10, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Pogba suddenly looks engaged an interested as a player and a different animal on the pitch when he wants to play. Shame you can't rely on him to be in that mood every time he plays and drifts in and out of games
		
Click to expand...

I think Pogba is a fantastic footballer.
His only weakness for me is he was robbed of the ball a couple of times in his own half and made no effort to chase back and get it back.
If he can do this I think he is top class?
Going forward there aren’t many better imo.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 10, 2020)

Slime said:



			Now, that was some finish for a nipper!
		
Click to expand...

Is it me or does he hit the ball harder than most.
His shots seem to fizz pity they never had a mph on his goals.
He hits it so pure I think that’s what makes him accurate, think you have a gem there.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 10, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			If it’s taken them overnight to see that’s not a pen it’s not fit for purpose.
One look on motd I could see Ward Prowse jumps up in the air into the defender.
*It’s the wincing on faces and screaming as players hit the floor I don’t like.
With there being no crowd this is more noticeable.*

Click to expand...

Funnily enough we commented on this last night. The diving I have almost come to accept but the yelps and squeeling are pathetic. Initially I thought it was players who were genuinely injured, badly injured, but now I know it is just another con job. My son made the comment, 'imagine going home after a game, looking your kid in the eye and explaining why you yelped, squeeled and then got up again within seconds?'. Embarrassing.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 10, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Funnily enough we commented on this last night. The diving I have almost come to accept but the yelps and squeeling are pathetic. Initially I thought it was players who were genuinely injured, badly injured, but now I know it is just another con job. My son made the comment, 'imagine going home after a game, *looking your kid in the eye and explaining why you yelped, squeeled and then got up again within seconds?'. Embarrassing*.
		
Click to expand...

They probably just buy them another £1000 toy and the embarrassment subsides. But yeah, I have no idea how a fully grown man can leap on the floor screaming and pretending with a straight face. It's so cringeworthy.


----------



## Slime (Jul 10, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			If it’s taken them overnight to see that’s not a pen it’s not fit for purpose.
One look on motd I could see Ward Prowse jumps up in the air into the defender.
*It’s the wincing on faces and screaming as players hit the floor I don’t like.
With there being no crowd this is more noticeable.*

Click to expand...

They should be made to watch a good RU international to see how a grown man should react to a painful tackle.
Ever seen a rugby player roll 15 times whilst screaming like a 5 year old ................... me neither.
Oh, and while they're there, show them how to show a bit of respect to the officials!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 10, 2020)

Slime said:



			They should be made to watch a good RU international to see how a grown man should react to a painful tackle.
Ever seen a rugby player roll 15 times whilst screaming like a 5 year old ................... me neither.
Oh, and while they're there, show them how to show a bit of respect to the officials!
		
Click to expand...

Or you can add cricket to the mix and the bravery of some of the batsmen getting peppered at 90mph. It is one of the most off putting things in the modern game and almost a cancer of the game that players are more intent to con a referee into giving a penalty/red card than using their talent to create chances. Think the genie is well and truly out the bottle now and FIFA won't do anything and the problem will get worse until it is the norm at grass roots level as well


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 10, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Or you can add cricket to the mix and the bravery of some of the batsmen getting peppered at 90mph. It is one of the most off putting things in the modern game and almost a cancer of the game that players are more intent to con a referee into giving a penalty/red card than using their talent to create chances. Think the genie is well and truly out the bottle now and FIFA won't do anything and the problem will get worse until it is the norm at grass roots level as well
		
Click to expand...

For me it starts with the lying constantly 

The oh ref that was my throw even though I booted it out ...

Never touched him when he has a broke ankle 

Just cheating at every turn


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2020)

Jackie Charlton, a true character, World Cup winner and great footballer .............................. RIP.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 11, 2020)

Slime said:



			Jackie Charlton, a true character, World Cup winner and great footballer .............................. RIP.
		
Click to expand...

Yes a proper old fashioned CB.
RIP Jack.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2020)

Only players to get a hatrick in the league for west ham .. premier League that is we had a few down in championship

Anyways Antonio full on beast mode today with 4


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 11, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 31575


Only players to get a hatrick in the league for west ham .. premier League that is we had a few down in championship

*Anyways Antonio full on beast mode today with 4*

Click to expand...

He leaves me confused. Seems to have quite a bit about him but rarely shows it!


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			He leaves me confused. Seems to have quite a bit about him but rarely shows it!
		
Click to expand...

He plays best when he doesnt think about it

Much like Marlon harewood

Helpful player


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 11, 2020)

Some brainless defending by Newcastle has handed points to Watford today. Watford have fought hard but Bruce will be going nuts.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Some brainless defending by Newcastle has handed points to Watford today. Watford have fought hard but Bruce will be going nuts.
		
Click to expand...

Shame would love to have been clearer today 

However whoever wins Friday will be safe basically

Cheeky point each anyone? Gentleman's agreement


----------



## nickjdavis (Jul 11, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Some brainless defending by Newcastle has handed points to Watford today. Watford have fought hard but Bruce will be going nuts.
		
Click to expand...

Watford fair value for the win. Towards the end of the first half you could see them growing into the game and had much more about them in the 2nd half. Two daft penalties to give away but Watford had other good chances whereas Newcastle largely created nothing. Looked like they were out for an afternoon stroll in the 2nd half...no urgency, lacking speed of thought, continually getting caught in possession or giving the ball away with sloppy passes. One early golal in the 2nd half and it would have killed Watford off.

(I'm a Toon fan by the way)


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 11, 2020)

nickjdavis said:



			Watford fair value for the win. Towards the end of the first half you could see them growing into the game and had much more about them in the 2nd half. Two daft penalties to give away but Watford had other good chances whereas Newcastle largely created nothing. Looked like they were out for an afternoon stroll in the 2nd half...no urgency, lacking speed of thought, continually getting caught in possession or giving the ball away with sloppy passes. One early golal in the 2nd half and it would have killed Watford off.

(I'm a Toon fan by the way)
		
Click to expand...

Second half in particular showed one team with something to play for, the other safe for the season with nowhere to go.


----------



## Piece (Jul 11, 2020)

Fjgkflsoqsnfkslsn! 🐝⚽️💛

When we play football on the deck we are good. When it's long ball we are rubbish. It's not rocket science.

Gentlemen's 0-0 on Friday is fine with me!


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jul 11, 2020)

Breaking News!!!!!! Pep leaves City with immediate effect.....

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/53343410


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 11, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Breaking News!!!!!! Pep leaves City with immediate effect.....

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/53343410

Click to expand...

Naughty boy 🤣.

Okay, you got me.


----------



## Fish (Jul 11, 2020)

Deserved to be 2 down at half time, poor play by individuals & wrong tactics, changes by Frank were needed quicker, but never came, but player attitudes need improving. 

Shocking, tactically beaten, very poor individual performances, been easily countered, shocking defensive errors, staring at 5th after Monday, simply not good enough to hold onto 4th based on this performance.


----------



## Slime (Jul 11, 2020)

Sheffield United ............................... thanks.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2020)

Slime said:



			Sheffield United ............................... thanks. 

Click to expand...

Mcgoldrick he has missed some howlers this season .
So nice to see him come good with a double.
Shef deserved the win ,well played.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 12, 2020)




----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2020)

VAR again unlucky for palace.
So where your arm ends and your shoulder starts is very unclear.
Think that was a goal myself.
But possibly a foul on the keeper.


----------



## chrisd (Jul 12, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			VAR again unlucky for palace.
So where your arm ends and your shoulder starts is very unclear.
Think that was a goal myself.
But possibly a foul on the keeper.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely not a handball but accept it might have been a foul on the keeper


----------



## fundy (Jul 12, 2020)

Embarrassing from Grealish


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 12, 2020)

fundy said:



			Embarrassing from Grealish
		
Click to expand...

I’d like to see him questioned over it.


----------



## fundy (Jul 12, 2020)

get up Ceballos


----------



## fundy (Jul 12, 2020)

some hit that from Lacazette


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 12, 2020)

fundy said:



			Embarrassing from Grealish
		
Click to expand...

Yes VAR got it right so credit them.
But that’s a dive from Grelish.
More or less the same as the Man Utd one but two different outcomes.


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 12, 2020)

What a goal.


----------



## Slime (Jul 12, 2020)

Wow, that was a decent strike.


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 12, 2020)

Followed by a total cock up.


----------



## fundy (Jul 12, 2020)

Clowns, both of them


----------



## Slime (Jul 12, 2020)

Wow, that was typical Arsenal defending!


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 12, 2020)

Indeed.


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 12, 2020)

i didn't like the pass back from mid field either.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 12, 2020)

As expected this is shaping up as the battle of whose defence is the crappest.


----------



## fundy (Jul 12, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			i didn't like the pass back from mid field either.
		
Click to expand...

all running around like headless chickens again  could be a long afternoon


----------



## paddyc (Jul 12, 2020)

Kolasinac  is a absolute liability. another who needs to be shown  the  door.


----------



## fundy (Jul 12, 2020)

Not sure if anyone has seen the abuse Wilf Zaha got on twitter overnight, utterly repulsive vile stuff 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1282273543208808450
It gets worse, it seems Police have arrested a 12 year old!!!!!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1282341956199350272


----------



## fundy (Jul 12, 2020)

such a soft goal to give away sigh


----------



## fundy (Jul 12, 2020)

maybe theyll stop saying how much we improved defensively under Arteta for a bit now, same clowns still making the same errors over and over again, unlikely to change until there are some changes in personnel (hopefully)


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 12, 2020)

Self destruct button killed that as a game. 

Son, much under rated, had a good day today.


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 12, 2020)

Back 3 for Arsenal are a calamity, not even waiting to happen.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 12, 2020)

Well, we've done a proper Mourinho job there. First half we were decent, second half was all Arsenal but we just soaked it up and picked up a goal off a set piece. Mustafi just shaded it in the 'who has the worst defence' competition as well. I'll take it.

Edit: Forgot to say, I thought Martinez was superb for Arsenal in goal and he certainly didn't deserve to be on the losing side.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 12, 2020)

What a crazy few minutes and what an idiot to get sent off like that


----------



## Fish (Jul 12, 2020)

Thank you Bournemouth and well played Solanke 💙


----------



## Slime (Jul 12, 2020)

Slime said:



			Sheffield United ............................... thanks. 

Click to expand...

AFC Bournemouth ................................. thanks. 

Stunning weekend for United without even kicking a ball!


----------



## GG26 (Jul 12, 2020)

I can’t believe what I watched from Leicester earlier.  Absolutely dominated the first half and then played like headless chickens for the second half.  I’m going to have nightmares about this tonight.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 13, 2020)

City's CL ban has been lifted, they'll be allowed to play in Europe next season and receive a 10m Euro fine instead.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 13, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			City's CL ban has been lifted, they'll be allowed to play in Europe next season and receive a 10m Euro fine instead.
		
Click to expand...

Other fans losing it on Twitter after hearing this 😂


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 13, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			City's CL ban has been lifted, they'll be allowed to play in Europe next season and receive a 10m Euro fine instead.
		
Click to expand...

Always destined to happen. 

But a nice little earner for Uefa.


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes VAR got it right so credit them.
But that’s a dive from Grelish.
More or less the same as the Man Utd one but two different outcomes.
		
Click to expand...

He's a cheat, always has been.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 13, 2020)

Where will they find the money? Is there a Just Giving page we can donate to, help them out?


----------



## IanM (Jul 13, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			City's CL ban has been lifted, they'll be allowed to play in Europe next season and receive a 10m Euro fine instead.
		
Click to expand...

Bit like fining one of us £50.   Rather not pay it, but won't do any significant damage!  I wonder how they swung that?


----------



## Fish (Jul 13, 2020)

I wonder where the panel will be holidaying next and what expensive watches they’ll be looking at the time with 🤔


----------



## fundy (Jul 13, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			City's CL ban has been lifted, they'll be allowed to play in Europe next season and receive a 10m Euro fine instead.
		
Click to expand...


lol, as expected but thought theyd take more than 10m for the charade


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 13, 2020)

The fine is not for any breach of FFP Rules but for failing to engage in a cooperative manner with the UEFA inquiry. 

I'm not certain any of us truly understand the charges they had faced.


----------



## fundy (Jul 13, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			The fine is not for any breach of FFP Rules but for failing to engage in a cooperative manner with the UEFA inquiry.

I'm not certain any of us truly understand the charges they had faced.
		
Click to expand...


pretty much upsetting the old guards apple cart, thats not quite how they dressed it though!


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 13, 2020)

€10m fine for failing to co-operate seems a bit excessive. 

Though I called this yesterday when I was discussing it with my PP.

UEFA need to take a good look at themselves at their set up. They wont as theres too many snouts in the trough.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 13, 2020)

Did anyone really expect the ban to stick?
Given it’s UEFA I never.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Did anyone really expect the ban to stick?
Given it’s UEFA I never.
		
Click to expand...

Given its City, I never.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 13, 2020)




----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 13, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Given its City, I never.
		
Click to expand...

Me to but give us 10 million and we will let you off undermines UEFA.
Mind you they don’t really have a reputation to undermine.


----------



## PieMan (Jul 13, 2020)

Ah, Financial Fair Play - the brainchild of one Michel Platini I believe.......himself subsequently banned from football for a number of ethics violations!!!! 🤔😉😂😂😂


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			€10m fine for failing to co-operate seems a bit excessive.

Though I called this yesterday when I was discussing it with my PP.

UEFA need to take a good look at themselves at their set up. They wont as theres too many snouts in the trough.
		
Click to expand...

It wasn’t UEFA, they banned City. It was CAS who overturned it.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Did anyone really expect the ban to stick?
Given it’s UEFA I never.
		
Click to expand...

It wasn’t UEFA, they banned City. It was CAS who overturned it.


----------



## GreiginFife (Jul 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Me to but give us 10 million and we will let you off undermines UEFA.
Mind you they don’t really have a reputation to undermine.
		
Click to expand...

From what I read that's not really the case. The way I read it, City have not been exonerated for the alleged failings that UEFA cited them for bit for the absolute shambolic way in which UEFA and their club financials arm have handled the case, which by all accounts was based on illlegally obtained information. If that is true it doesn't then matter how much truth is in the accusation. 
CAS reduced UEFAs fine to £10m based on a lesser "conviction" of being obstructive to the investigation. 
At no point in this has anyone "let City off" except in the sense that the absolute pantomime case UEFA built in the first place, effectively let City off.

Spot on about the reputation of the UEFA swamp dwellers though


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 13, 2020)

GreiginFife said:



			From what I read that's not really the case. The way I read it, City have not been exonerated for the alleged failings that UEFA cited them for bit for the absolute shambolic way in which UEFA and their club financials arm have handled the case, which by all accounts was based on illlegally obtained information. If that is true it doesn't then matter how much truth is in the accusation.
CAS reduced UEFAs fine to £10m based on a lesser "conviction" of being obstructive to the investigation.
At no point in this has anyone "let City off" except in the sense that the absolute pantomime case UEFA built in the first place, effectively let City off.

Spot on about the reputation of the UEFA swamp dwellers though
		
Click to expand...

So UEFAs ban should still stand, if the fine is for obstruction!
It’s a mess but that was to be expected if it involves UEFA and big money.


----------



## GreiginFife (Jul 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			So UEFAs ban should still stand, if the fine is for obstruction!
It’s a mess but that was to be expected if it involves UEFA and big money.
		
Click to expand...

No, UEFAs ban is only enforceable as the result of a proper judicial process. That is where they seem to have failed miserably. Whether City are guilty or not is immaterial if evidence is illegally obtained. 
The fine for obstruction is, by and large, associated but for a different offence.


----------



## sunshine (Jul 13, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			Went to watch *Tonbridge Angels*, my local non-league team, end of last year. It was great! 4-4-2 - big man / little man up top. overweight bruiser and little skilful centre mids, 2 quickest players in the team as the wingers, the tall old guys at centre back and the 2 least skilled players in the 11 at full back! Brilliant!
		
Click to expand...

Have you got the right sport? Sounds more like a lap dancing club


----------



## sunshine (Jul 13, 2020)

sunshine said:



			Is this because you think Man City can't afford the best lawyers to win their appeal? Or because UEFA is renowned for its integrity? 

Click to expand...

No awards for correctly guessing City ban would be over-turned. I'm surprised anyone expected anything different.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 13, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			It wasn’t UEFA, they banned City. It was CAS who overturned it.
		
Click to expand...

I am aware of that. UEFA should be making sure all the I's are dotted and the T's are crossed for a water tight case. 

UEFA are a joke of an organisation.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 13, 2020)

*Stolen from twitter 😁😁😁

Are Man United kicking off from the Center Circle tonight or are they just going straight to the Penalty spot?


----------



## fundy (Jul 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			*Stolen from twitter 😁😁😁

Are Man United kicking off from the Center Circle tonight or are they just going straight to the Penalty spot?
		
Click to expand...


i heard Fernandes is taking both of their penalties too


----------



## Slime (Jul 13, 2020)

Going forward, United really are a joy to watch.


----------



## fundy (Jul 13, 2020)

Didnt take VAR long to clear him there, thats a horrid tackle and should be red


----------



## Piece (Jul 13, 2020)

Shouldn’t that be a red for Romeu?


----------



## fundy (Jul 13, 2020)

Piece said:



			Shouldn’t that be a red for Romeu?
		
Click to expand...


as clear as they come, very late and clearly "left it on him", joke decision


----------



## Piece (Jul 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			as clear as they come, very late and clearly "left it on him", joke decision
		
Click to expand...

Not even slightly late or part of the same tackle. Players get sent off for aggressive follow through in the same tackle, yet that doesn’t even warrant a foul. Love to hear the explanation for that.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2020)

Piece said:



			Not even slightly late or part of the same tackle. Players get sent off for aggressive follow through in the same tackle, yet that doesn’t even warrant a foul. Love to hear the explanation for that.
		
Click to expand...

There have been VAR red cards for far less all season so I find it impossible to justify how they couldn't come to that decision.


----------



## Piece (Jul 13, 2020)

And then asking Matt Le Tiss ”is that a red?” for Saints player....


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 13, 2020)

Piece said:



			And then asking Matt Le Tiss ”is that a red?” for Saints player....

Click to expand...

I think Matt embarrassed himself a tad there.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 13, 2020)

Yernited looked a different side without Fernandes....


----------



## Fish (Jul 13, 2020)

😎💙


----------



## Slime (Jul 13, 2020)

Poor finishing cost us tonight, not often I say that!
Southampton are probably the hardest working team I've seen for a long while.
Should have been a red card, no doubt.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 13, 2020)

Southampton are a very good side, just lack consistency.


----------



## Slime (Jul 13, 2020)

Eni Aluko talking about Mason Green*ford*.


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 13, 2020)

Slime said:



			Eni Aluko talking about Mason Green*ford*. 

Click to expand...

She's so bad. Can't believe sky still bother with her.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 13, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			She's so bad. Can't believe sky still bother with her.
		
Click to expand...

It's all about image from Sky imo.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Southampton are a very good side, just lack consistency.
		
Click to expand...

I think we lack a few quality players..... 

Without them consistency will always be an issue.

We have one goalscorer. Neutralise him and often we're quiet. 

Obafemi, long and Adams simply aren't PL standard. 

If we Could add a CB and a goalscoring Midfielder (from open play) I think we'd be comfortably mid table without the usual relegation worries.


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			It's all about image from Sky imo.
		
Click to expand...

Agree. Should never have been used after her comments about furloughed people not wanting to go because they're lazy.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 13, 2020)

Slime said:



			Poor finishing cost us tonight, not often I say that!
Southampton are probably the hardest working team I've seen for a long while.
Should have been a red card, no doubt. 

Click to expand...

Defo a red if its against you. One I think most would argue it isn't when it's your team imo. 
Wouldnt have complained if it was given. 

That aside I think we were worth a point. After Martial chance we were good value for the lead. Losing at half term harsh I reckon. 

More possession, shots and saves by your keeper suggest it was certainly close.....


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 13, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Agree. Should never have been used after her comments about furloughed people not wanting to go because they're lazy.
		
Click to expand...

Tbh she may just know a lot of my colleagues......


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 13, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Agree. Should never have been used after her comments about furloughed people not wanting to go because they're lazy.
		
Click to expand...

I haven’t heard them so I can’t comment but since the George Floyd incident and the BLM movement it seems broadcasters are hiring more black ex players as analysts which isn’t a bad thing but they need to be of a high standard imo.

My only other thought on it is they’re doing it from a pr point as opposed to whose the best analysts for the game. I might be completely wide of the mark here but it’s just how I see it.


----------



## Piece (Jul 13, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Agree. Should never have been used after her comments about furloughed people not wanting to go because they're lazy.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, she should never been used in the first place. She is just terrible.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I haven’t heard them so I can’t comment but since the George Floyd incident and the BLM movement it seems broadcasters are hiring more black ex players as analysts which isn’t a bad thing but they need to be of a high standard imo.

My only other thought on it is they’re doing it from a pr point as opposed to whose the best analysts for the game. I might be completely wide of the mark here but it’s just how I see it.
		
Click to expand...

I think you're spot on.

Obviously it's a good thing if we can have a fairer representation, but hiring anyone who hits the right demographic which is how it seems. Is just wrong.


----------



## SaintHacker (Jul 13, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think Matt embarrassed himself a tad there.
		
Click to expand...

Disagree a bit. When I first saw it my immediate reaction was thats a red he's going off when the ref gets told, however when you watch it in slow mo he actually looks away before he catches the lad. And Le Tissier is correct in that he is pulling up and turning, so it could have been pretty accidental. That said if he'd been given a straight red I'd have had no complaints.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 13, 2020)

SaintHacker said:



			Disagree a bit. When I first saw it my immediate reaction was thats a red he's going off when the ref gets told, however when you watch it in slow mo he actually looks away before he catches the lad. And Le Tissier is correct in that he is pulling up and turning, so it could have been pretty accidental. That said if he'd been given a straight red I'd have had no complaints.
		
Click to expand...

A lot of incidents/tackles slowed down look horrific. I'm not certain there was intent or it was reckless.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 13, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think Matt embarrassed himself a tad there.
		
Click to expand...

I think may a pundit would say the same thing for their team.....

For me it falls into I'd have accepted it if it was given, but can see reasons why it wasn't.

Probably a lot easier to not give decisions when you haven't got 70k fans on your back.


----------



## SaintHacker (Jul 13, 2020)

I don't know. He can be a bit 'agricultural' to say the least. That said stamping on someone when you're not looking at them takes some doing, and I don't think he's gothat kind of skill in his locker...


----------



## Billysboots (Jul 13, 2020)

I’m afraid tonight’s result is rather typical of the United of the last couple of years - the sides above us drop points and we fail to cash in.

I’m still confident of a top four finish, though, with Leicester and Chelsea both having tough games at Spurs and Liverpool respectively. If both pick up three points in those games I’ll be surprised.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 13, 2020)

GreiginFife said:



			No, UEFAs ban is only enforceable as the result of a proper judicial process. That is where they seem to have failed miserably. Whether City are guilty or not is immaterial if evidence is illegally obtained.
The fine for obstruction is, by and large, associated but for a different offence.
		
Click to expand...

So that’s the answer for all clubs.
Break the rules but be so obstructive that all charges are dropped because it took over five years to get to the court.
Then pay the fine for obstruction. Sorted!
UEFA not fit for purpose.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			So that’s the answer for all clubs.
Break the rules but be so obstructive that all charges are dropped because it took over five years to get to the court.
Then pay the fine for obstruction. Sorted!
UEFA not fit for purpose.
		
Click to expand...

No. All charges were dropped due to Uefa not putting a case together properly. 

City were effectively let off their offence due to uefas incompetence but paid a fine for a totally different offence.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 13, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			No. All charges were dropped due to Uefa not putting a case together properly.

City were effectively let off their offence due to uefas incompetence but paid a fine for a totally different offence.
		
Click to expand...

But how do UEFA put a case together when a club can just be uncooperative.
Said on news that the charges were dropped because of the time frame.
Not excusing UEFA , city have got away with one if the charges were correct.
But we all know 10 mil is peanuts to City.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			But how do UEFA put a case together when a club can just be uncooperative.
Not excusing them at all.
But we all know 10 mil is peanuts to City.
		
Click to expand...

Didn’t they mess up a case against yous in 2014/15?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 13, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Didn’t they mess up a case against yous in 2014/15?

Click to expand...

They have form!
But like Referees they are not brought to book for their mistakes.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 13, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			But how do UEFA put a case together when a club can just be uncooperative.
Said on news that the charges were dropped because of the time frame.
Not excusing UEFA , city have got away with one if the charges were correct.
But we all know 10 mil is peanuts to City.
		
Click to expand...

I agree the fine is peanuts. 
But they haven't been fined 10m for ffp errors. 

I guess the answer is they put a case together properly. Go through correct channels to get all info required and whilst it make take longer. Get it right.


----------



## GreiginFife (Jul 14, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			So that’s the answer for all clubs.
Break the rules but be so obstructive that all charges are dropped because it took over five years to get to the court.
Then pay the fine for obstruction. Sorted!
UEFA not fit for purpose.
		
Click to expand...

No! I can't say it enough times. UEFA botched the process. Used illegally obtained evidence. If it was heard in the correct time then it would still be a flawed judicial process. 
The amount of time City stalled for is possibly symptomatic of the poor handling on UEFA's side but the fact remains that had UEFA not made a complete balls up of it then City would probably still be banned.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 14, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			She's so bad. Can't believe sky still bother with her.
		
Click to expand...

I appreciate her insights from playing in the PL for all those years 🙄. She knows exactly what it's like to play away at Anfield in front of 60k people 🤔. It's painful tokenism. (To clarify in case anyone wants to find issue with this, I don't care about her colour, purely that she and other female pundits have no experience in playing at the level being discussed,  unlike all of the male pundits used to cover PL matches)


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 14, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree the fine is peanuts.
But they haven't been fined 10m for ffp errors.

I guess the answer is they put a case together properly. Go through correct channels to get all info required and whilst it make take longer. Get it right.
		
Click to expand...

The extent of it may not have been available via legal means (hacked mails), but there is no doubt that it was going on, so should have been cracked down on earlier.

Some city fans think they have actually been exonerated, wow.

As it said in one article, the future of European football may end of being a war on the turf between 3 Arab Emirates, and possibly China. Maybe as a sport it may then be dead.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 14, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I think may a pundit would say the same thing for their team.....

For me it falls into I'd have accepted it if it was given, but can see reasons why it wasn't.

Probably a lot easier to not give decisions when you haven't got 70k fans on your back.
		
Click to expand...

I think your last point is a very interesting one. I don't know if it can be measured but I suspect the refereeing of games is much more even without fans there. I don't blame the refs there, it must be hard not to be influenced in some way.

Saying all that, the sooner fans are back the better, safely obviously.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 14, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			The extent of it may not have been available via legal means (hacked mails), but there is no doubt that it was going on, so should have been cracked down on earlier.

Some city fans think they have actually been exonerated, wow.

As it said in one article, the future of European football may end of being a war on the turf between 3 Arab Emirates, and possibly China. Maybe as a sport it may then be dead.
		
Click to expand...

I fully agree that they are guilty of the violations, but just in any legal case. If the case is built on illegally gained evidence it'll fail.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 14, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I fully agree that they are guilty of the violations, but just in any legal case. If the case is built on illegally gained evidence it'll fail.
		
Click to expand...

What evidence have you seen to convince you of their guilt?

Plenty of rumours and speculation but there does seem to be a distinct shortage of hard facts in the public domain.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 14, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree the fine is peanuts.
But they haven't been fined 10m for ffp errors.

I guess the answer is they put a case together properly. Go through correct channels to get all info required and whilst it make take longer. Get it right.
		
Click to expand...

I think the worst thing is it’s UEFAs time line rules not the courts, that’s so poor they can’t even stick to their own rules!
But my main point is the clubs can drag their feet and not cooperate just to run the time down so the charges are dropped.
Then just get a fine for not cooperating.


----------



## GreiginFife (Jul 14, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			What evidence have you seen to convince you of their guilt?

Plenty of rumours and speculation but there does seem to be a distinct shortage of hard facts in the public domain.
		
Click to expand...

UEFA believed that they had evidence in the form of the emails from the German media organisation. Evidence that they used to cite City for the rule breaches. 
Evidence that, from all accounts, would see City's ban upheld were it not for the fact it was illegally obtained.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 14, 2020)

GreiginFife said:



			UEFA believed that they had evidence in the form of the emails from the German media organisation. Evidence that they used to cite City for the rule breaches.
Evidence that, from all accounts, would see City's ban upheld were it not for the fact it was illegally obtained.
		
Click to expand...

In that case should UEFA be prosecuted for breaking the law.
It looks to me like they have some sort of agreement to let the time line run down as it suits both parties.!


----------



## GreiginFife (Jul 14, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			In that case should UEFA be prosecuted for breaking the law.
It looks to me like they have some sort of agreement to let the time line run down as it suits both parties.!
		
Click to expand...

If were it a legal judicial process then yes, perhaps they would be. Seeing as it's breaking the rules of UEFA themselves then I doubt we will see or hear anything further from them on this topic, let alone an appeal.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 14, 2020)

GreiginFife said:



			If were it a legal judicial process then yes, perhaps they would be. Seeing as it's breaking the rules of UEFA themselves then I doubt we will see or hear anything further from them on this topic, let alone an appeal.
		
Click to expand...

Illegally obtaining someone’s emails is breaking the law isn’t it.?
Not UEFAs laws . 
I would have thought That’s a police matter.
But are City going to complain seeing this has all ended very well for them , just a slap on the wrist.


----------



## GreiginFife (Jul 14, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Illegally obtaining someone’s emails is breaking the law isn’t it.?
Not UEFAs laws . 
I would have thought That’s a police matter.
But are City going to complain seeing this has all ended very well for them , just a slap on the wrist.
		
Click to expand...

No one will want any further looking in to this I wouldn't think. 
UEFA have made a balls up and let both a big fish escape and undermine the FPP principles and intent in one fell swoop.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 14, 2020)

GreiginFife said:



			No one will want any further looking in to this I wouldn't think.
UEFA have made a balls up and let both a big fish escape and undermine the FPP principles and intent in one fell swoop.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I totally agree with you.
But should UEFA get away with breaking the law?
That’s why I think they have colluded to let it run out of time, and the CAS was a show trial.
The law is the law and they are not above it. They should be investigated by the police.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 14, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes I totally agree with you.
But should UEFA get away with breaking the law?
That’s why I think they have colluded to let it run out of time, and the CAS was a show trial.
The law is the law and they are not above it. They should be investigated by the police.
		
Click to expand...

Der Spiegel the German Newspaper are the ones who supplied the information, it’s them who should be investigated, UEFA were stupid to accept it.

Personally, as previously discussed, ffp should never have been brought in, it wasn’t about levelling the playing field it was about protecting those already at the top table.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 14, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Der Spiegel the German Newspaper are the ones who supplied the information, it’s them who should be investigated, UEFA were stupid to accept it.

Personally, as previously discussed, ffp should never have been brought in, it wasn’t about levelling the playing field it was about protecting those already at the top table.
		
Click to expand...

Yes that’s correct.
But receiving stolen goods is a crime .
They knew it was dodgy and still tried to use it.
They are pathetic , but nothing ever seems to be done about them.
They seem untouchable.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 14, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes that’s correct.
But receiving stolen goods is a crime .
They knew it was dodgy and still tried to use it.
They are pathetic , but nothing ever seems to be done about them.
They seem untouchable.
		
Click to expand...

Probably because they “police” themselves.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 14, 2020)

GreiginFife said:



			UEFA believed that they had evidence in the form of the emails from the German media organisation. Evidence that they used to cite City for the rule breaches.
Evidence that, from all accounts, would see City's ban upheld were it not for the fact it was illegally obtained.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but the evidence is not that clear.

Most people when asked seem to think Man City are guilty of spending too much money whereas the charges appear to surround the sources of those funds.

In particular the distinction between investment (i.e. equity) and sponsorship. 

My point is that they may well have broken the rules but none of what I have so far seen confirms this enough for me to join those on here and elsewhere who confidently proclaim that "of course City are guilty ".

Perhaps their confidence reflects the reasoning behind the introduction of FFP to protect the interests of those already considering themselves at the top table.


----------



## GreiginFife (Jul 14, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			Sorry but the evidence is not that clear.

Most people when asked seem to think Man City are guilty of spending too much money whereas the charges appear to surround the sources of those funds.

In particular the distinction between investment (i.e. equity) and sponsorship. 

My point is that they may well have broken the rules but none of what I have so far seen confirms this enough for me to join those on here and elsewhere who confidently proclaim that "of course City are guilty ".

Perhaps their confidence reflects the reasoning behind the introduction of FFP to protect the interests of those already considering themselves at the top table.
		
Click to expand...

My point was more that regardless of what is in the public domain, and I'm not sure that any needs to be, UEFA deemed that they had sufficient evidence to cite City on breaches of the rules. The evidence was clear enough to those that made the decision to cite and, in these matters is the view that counts. 
I have no idea whether or not City were or were not guilty. I do not care if they were or weren't, UEFA were convinced they were and felt the evidence was clear enough to ban City. 
The fact they then ballsed up the process thereafter is why we now find City in the position they are in.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 14, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			What evidence have you seen to convince you of their guilt?

Plenty of rumours and speculation but there does seem to be a distinct shortage of hard facts in the public domain.
		
Click to expand...

I'd base my opinion on the fact they weren't found not guilty l, but simply not charged. 

Imagine an incident person charged if something. Would they settle for being let off on a technicality or demand a full retraction of the charge? I've not seen City make any such comments yet?


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 14, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I'd base my opinion on the fact they weren't found not guilty l, but simply not charged.

Imagine an incident person charged if something. Would they settle for being let off on a technicality or demand a full retraction of the charge? I've not seen City make any such comments yet?
		
Click to expand...

So guilty until proven innocent. 

Is that just for City or is that your belief in all cases?

And there is no scope for City to demand a full retraction. Having said that Pep was pretty clear on his opinion of the outcome.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 14, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



*So guilty until proven innocent.*

Is that just for City or is that your belief in all cases?

And there is no scope for City to demand a full retraction. Having said that Pep was pretty clear on his opinion of the outcome.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, that’s exactly what I said.

TBC, I said that I’d expect innocent parties (in all cases) to fight harder to be fully acquitted. (At the time I’d not seen peps interview),

For the record, I’m not a fan of ffp and don’t think clubs should have to abide by them.


----------



## fundy (Jul 14, 2020)

Guessing the Wigan players not that impressed by their owners underhand behaviour and the 12 point deduction likely to relegate them. Just the 7-0 up against Hull at Half time and giving themselves every chance to survive despite whats gone on!!!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 14, 2020)

fundy said:



			Guessing the Wigan players not that impressed by their owners underhand behaviour and the 12 point deduction likely to relegate them. Just the 7-0 up against Hull at Half time and giving themselves every chance to survive despite whats gone on!!!
		
Click to expand...

It says something about Hull right now though 😱


----------



## fundy (Jul 14, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It says something about Hull right now though 😱
		
Click to expand...


selling their best 2 players and only goal threats in January without replacing them clearly not the best of ideas


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 15, 2020)

Wolves have been done tonight. Ran the game, very dubious penalty against them. Surely the dangerous play of the high boot stops play and makes the handball irrelevant? If this was my team I'd be fuming.


----------



## fundy (Jul 15, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Wolves have been done tonight. Ran the game, very dubious penalty against them. Surely the dangerous play of the high boot stops play and makes the handball irrelevant? If this was my team I'd be fuming.
		
Click to expand...

not for me, didnt kick him, didnt actually get close to kicking him, doherty just panicked, no way that should be overturned


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 15, 2020)

Think Wolves won’t be happy there.
You can be booked for excessive force in a tackle where you get the ball.
But a overhead kick where you miss the ball and it hits the defenders arm who is trying to protect himself is a penalty.???
Think VAR got that wrong again for me .
Mike Dean the star again!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 15, 2020)

fundy said:



			not for me, didnt kick him, didnt actually get close to kicking him, doherty just panicked, no way that should be overturned
		
Click to expand...

He didn’t get the ball though.
The defender backed out so never got the ball at its peak height ,it then drops on his arm because he’s underneath the flight.
It’s dangerous play.?


----------



## fundy (Jul 15, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			He didn’t get the ball though.
The defender backed out so never got the ball at its peak height ,it then drops on his arm because he’s underneath the flight.
It’s dangerous play.?
		
Click to expand...

if Doherty was an arsenal player id be having a go at him not the ref, can head the ball without being kicked but didnt, not dangerous for me


----------



## fundy (Jul 15, 2020)

odd looking arsenal side tonight, no ceballos, no aubam. one eye on the weekend?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 15, 2020)

fundy said:



			not for me, didnt kick him, didnt actually get close to kicking him, doherty just panicked, no way that should be overturned
		
Click to expand...

Can't agree with that. For me it's dangerous play, free kick to Wolves.


----------



## fundy (Jul 15, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can't agree with that. For me it's dangerous play, free kick to Wolves.
		
Click to expand...


its only dangerous in dohertys mind tho surely, if he kicks him then thats different. games gone soft lol


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 15, 2020)

We can't have Wolves getting the champions league can we.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 15, 2020)

fundy said:



			if Doherty was an arsenal player id be having a go at him not the ref, can head the ball without being kicked but didnt, not dangerous for me
		
Click to expand...

Not dangerous really ???
He missed the ball so he is not in control!
That’s dangerous.
A defender can’t be asked to put his head there and get kicked just to call it dangerous play.


----------



## Piece (Jul 15, 2020)

Bournemouth should have got a point at City.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 15, 2020)

fundy said:



			its only dangerous in dohertys mind tho surely, if he kicks him then thats different. games gone soft lol
		
Click to expand...

The question is does Doherty move his head 6" further forward and get his face smashed up or does he stay back and keep his nose, teeth and eyes as they are 🤔. I'm with him on this one.

The overhead kick is always a problem. If the attacker gets a clean strike with no one around then great. Anything else and it's dangerous, to this softie anyway 😄


----------



## fundy (Jul 15, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not dangerous really ???
He missed the ball so he is not in control!
That’s dangerous.
A defender can’t be asked to put his head there and get kicked just to call it dangerous play.
		
Click to expand...


were allowed to have different opinions, yes really, think ive made that clear


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 15, 2020)

Overhead kick is like handball in the area. Different rules for defenders and attackers. 

If a defender raised his foot that high the ref gives dangerous play but if an attacker does an overhead kick everybody races about how spectacular it is. 

There was another one at the weekend,  the defender nearly kicked in the face but apparently that's OK.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 15, 2020)

Have they changed the rules?
Torriea deliberate handball yellow.
Then kicks the ball away yellow that’s red.
Play to the whistle.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 15, 2020)

Have the liverpool lads lumped on Arsenal tonight? Do they know betting is not allowed?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 15, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Have the liverpool lads lumped on Arsenal tonight? Do they know betting is not allowed?
		
Click to expand...

Two best through balls of the night though


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 15, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283496641723535365


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 15, 2020)

Classic Xhaka challenge.


----------



## paddyc (Jul 15, 2020)

gooners hanging on!


----------



## fundy (Jul 15, 2020)

lol, they won the league? we must have every chance next year then 

weird weird game that, not quite sure how we won it


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 15, 2020)

Arsenal strikers played really well first half , pushing into our back four and forced mistakes credit for that.
For all the possession we had I can’t remember the keeper making a save of any note.
I still think in games like this we need a proper CF who takes the one chance he gets.


----------



## pendodave (Jul 15, 2020)

Tbf, the keeper made a cracking save right at the end (or was it woodwork only?).
I haven't watched too much of him, but is Leno much better? New lad seems more of a presence in the box at first glance.


----------



## fundy (Jul 15, 2020)

pendodave said:



			Tbf, the keeper made a cracking save right at the end (or was it woodwork only?).
I haven't watched too much of him, but is Leno much better? New lad seems more of a presence in the box at first glance.
		
Click to expand...


Leno's been our best player for most of this year and last.

Martinez has done well the last few games but still well behind Leno


----------



## pendodave (Jul 15, 2020)

fundy said:



			Leno's been our best player for most of this year and last.

Martinez has done well the last few games but still well behind Leno
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I wonder if he'll use his opportunity to try and snag a starter place elsewhere. 
In other Arze questions, do you think pepe has what it takes?


----------



## fundy (Jul 15, 2020)

pendodave said:



			Fair enough. I wonder if he'll use his opportunity to try and snag a starter place elsewhere.
In other Arze questions, do you think pepe has what it takes?
		
Click to expand...

Martinez is expected to be off at end of the season, whether his recent starts will change that not sure

re Pepe, 70m a lot for a dead ball specialist, too lightweight and 1 footed on what ive seen, cant see it myself, hope im wrong and its just the burden of the pricetag and change of country


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 15, 2020)

pendodave said:



			Tbf, the keeper made a cracking save right at the end (or was it woodwork only?).
I haven't watched too much of him, but is Leno much better? New lad seems more of a presence in the box at first glance.
		
Click to expand...

It was a massive deflection and don’t think he saved it.
What I have seen of him looks good.


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 15, 2020)

Martinez has been at the club for ages, and never really challenged for a start. I like him, and think Arse are unlikely to get a better number 2 goal keeper, but for me, Leno is the better keeper.


----------



## pendodave (Jul 15, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			It was a massive deflection and don’t think he saved it.
What I have seen of him looks good.
		
Click to expand...

fair enough. I was watching on .... a slightly sub-pucka stream...


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 15, 2020)

pendodave said:



			fair enough. I was watching on .... a slightly sub-pucka stream...
		
Click to expand...

I think if it had been going in he would have saved it ,so credit him for getting there .
I think he will do well if he moves to get games ,just might not be PL.

I think we pushed them back to far and there was just no space to play in.
They defended very well so no complaints really it was our own fault.


----------



## BrianM (Jul 15, 2020)

fundy said:



			its only dangerous in dohertys mind tho surely, if he kicks him then thats different. games gone soft lol
		
Click to expand...

Any human would of done what Doherty would of done, it’s just human instinct.
Would you if headed it.......


----------



## fundy (Jul 16, 2020)

BrianM said:



			Any human would of done what Doherty would of done, it’s just human instinct.
Would you if headed it.......
		
Click to expand...


long long time since i played football so would at best be guessing but like to think id have tried to yes, might be a rugby players mentality though


----------



## MegaSteve (Jul 16, 2020)

fundy said:



			Martinez is expected to be off at end of the season, whether his recent starts will change that not sure

re Pepe, 70m a lot for a dead ball specialist, too lightweight and 1 footed on what ive seen, cant see it myself, hope im wrong and its just the burden of the pricetag and change of country
		
Click to expand...


Souness rates Pepe ... Overpriced un-needed purchase... Summed up Dicks time in management...


----------



## fundy (Jul 16, 2020)

MegaSteve said:



			Souness rates Pepe ... Overpriced un-needed purchase... Summed up Dicks time in management...
		
Click to expand...


not sure it was anything to do with Dick was it, more a reflection on the board and Sanhelli and the ability to buy on the never never


----------



## need_my_wedge (Jul 16, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			It was a massive deflection and don’t think he saved it.
What I have seen of him looks good.
		
Click to expand...

This should clear that up


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 16, 2020)

need_my_wedge said:



			This should clear that up







Click to expand...

Hit the post I don’t think he touched it.
But maybe he did if so it was a great save.
But I don’t think it was ever in danger of going in.


----------



## need_my_wedge (Jul 16, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Hit the post I don’t think he touched it.
But maybe he did if so it was a great save.
But I don’t think it was ever in danger of going in.
		
Click to expand...

You need to clean those glasses,totally going in if he didn't Get his hand to it 😀


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 16, 2020)

Thank you Theo

Villa have to beat us now even if they win next time out


----------



## fundy (Jul 16, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Thank you Theo

Villa have to beat us now even if they win next time out
		
Click to expand...


Everton were there for the taking, Villa wasted a massive opportunity tonight


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 16, 2020)

need_my_wedge said:



			You need to clean those glasses,totally going in if he didn't Get husband to it 😀
		
Click to expand...

If you can tell from a grainy YouTube vid great.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 16, 2020)

need_my_wedge said:



			You need to clean those glasses,totally going in if he didn't Get husband to it 😀
		
Click to expand...

Jimmy Husband.?
Anyone remember him?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 16, 2020)

Can we just end our season now, not play the remaining games? We had a good 6 minutes at the end but that was it. About the only time we had some zip about our game.

Ancelotti and Brands (director of football) will be having a heck of a recruitment/ move them on chat in a week or so. Definitely a full pack of biscuits meeting.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 16, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Jimmy Husband.?
Anyone remember him?
		
Click to expand...

Luton Town?????? When they first came to prominence


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 16, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Luton Town?????? When they first came to prominence
		
Click to expand...

It was before football was invented.
He won the First div title with Everton.
Very good player , think he was a Scot.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 16, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			It was before football was invented.
He won the First div title with Everton.
Very good player , think he was a Scot.
		
Click to expand...

My apologies he was from Newcastle .
I remember my dad talking Me to watch Everton one week then 
Liverpool the next.
That was when footy was 3pm on a Saturday.


----------



## fundy (Jul 16, 2020)

Penalty 100 times out of 100 at the other end, Palace fans every right to be unhappy


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 16, 2020)

fundy said:



			Penalty 100 times out of 100 at the other end, Palace fans every right to be unhappy
		
Click to expand...

Evidently only 99/100

SHOCKING! Rashford the difference maker between me and a rivals team in fantasy footy with £400 riding on it too 😭😭😭


----------



## Cherry13 (Jul 16, 2020)

fundy said:



			Penalty 100 times out of 100 at the other end, Palace fans every right to be unhappy
		
Click to expand...

Zahas reputation preceding him perhaps?


----------



## fundy (Jul 16, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Evidently only 99/100

SHOCKING! Rashford the difference maker between me and a rivals team in fantasy footy with £400 riding on it too 😭😭😭
		
Click to expand...

lol, no i meant united get that as a pen 100 times out of 100!

i have rashford too


----------



## fundy (Jul 16, 2020)

Cherry13 said:



			Zahas reputation preceding him perhaps?
		
Click to expand...


youd hope VAR would overrule that lol


----------



## Slime (Jul 16, 2020)

fundy said:



			youd hope VAR would overrule that lol
		
Click to expand...

Why? It wasn't a penalty.


----------



## fundy (Jul 16, 2020)

Slime said:



			Why? It wasn't a penalty.
		
Click to expand...

take the blinkers off, even Rio admitted it was a clear pen


----------



## Slime (Jul 16, 2020)

Rio doesn't have the whistle!


----------



## Slime (Jul 16, 2020)

I don't think that was a penalty, either.
I must have dropped my blinkers.


----------



## Swingalot (Jul 16, 2020)

Slime said:



			Why? It wasn't a penalty.
		
Click to expand...

FFS!


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 16, 2020)

Normal service has resumed re referees decisions for Yernited. 

Nailed on Pen for Palace not given, almost impossible decision for the offside goal, Rashford grabbing Zaha and lifting him up and Yernitrd get a free kick 😂😂
Fernandes throwing himself to the floor. 

I thought Martial should've had a pen too in the last minute.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 16, 2020)

Slime said:



			Why? It wasn't a penalty.
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂 I suggest a drive to Barnard Castle tomorrow Slimey to test them mince pies of yours😉


----------



## Slime (Jul 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Normal service has resumed re referees decisions for Yernited.

Nailed on Pen for Palace not given, almost impossible decision for the offside goal, Rashford grabbing Zaha and lifting him up and Yernitrd get a free kick 😂😂
Fernandes throwing himself to the floor.

*I thought Martial should've had a pen too in the last minute.*

Click to expand...

It sounds like you've found my blinkers.
Whilst I didn't think that was a penalty, or the Zaha one, the offside decision was correct.
If, under the rules, a player is offside, then he's offside. It doesn't matter whether it's an inch or ten yards, he's still offside.


----------



## Slime (Jul 16, 2020)

Swingalot said:



			FFS!
		
Click to expand...

Did you think the Martial one was a penalty?


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 16, 2020)

Slime said:



			Did you think the Martial one was a penalty?
		
Click to expand...

Even if he does. It hardly goes down as evening themselves up. 

The scores could quite easily have been reversed at half time if the correct call (in a very vast majority of opinions) was made.


----------



## Junior (Jul 17, 2020)

We definately had the rub of the green last night.  One thing that no one has mentioned, but was discussed in earnest last week was DDG.   He had a good game and made some great saves last night.  

I listened to a Bruno Fernandez interview in the week.  He was quite intense about the club and the ambitions.  Saying that we should be trying to score 5 everygame we play etc etc.  It was an impressive speech.  He's a passionate guy and been a great catalyst for us.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 17, 2020)

Slime said:



			It sounds like you've found my blinkers.
Whilst I didn't think that was a penalty, or the Zaha one, the offside decision was correct.
*If, under the rules, a player is offside, then he's offside. It doesn't matter whether it's an inch or ten yards, he's still offside.*

Click to expand...

I agree. But this is what the masses wanted. You know the " offside is offside" gang. 

Do you honestly think that Zaha one wasnt a pen?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 17, 2020)

Junior said:



			We definately had the rub of the green last night.  One thing that no one has mentioned, but was discussed in earnest last week was DDG.   He had a good game and made some great saves last night.

I listened to a *Bruno Fernandez* interview in the week.  He was quite intense about the club and the ambitions.  Saying that we should be trying to score 5 everygame we play etc etc.  It was an impressive speech.  He's a passionate guy and been a great catalyst for us.
		
Click to expand...

I didn't realise he was playing until he threw himself to the floor in the 2nd half 😂

Regards DDG, you know it doesnt suit the narrative when a player whose been poor has a good game to praise him.😉


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 17, 2020)

I think Saha is reaping what he has sown.
I do think it was a foul and anywhere else it’s given.
But he goes down with such theatrics , he’s got his arms out claiming a pen before he hits the floor.
This puts a dought in the refs mind and VAR are just useless.
If you don’t go down you get nothing.
If you go down easy your a diver.
The poor quality of reffing has partially caused this imo over the years.
Cheating is the main cause though .


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 17, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think Saha is reaping what he has sown.
I do think it was a foul and anywhere else it’s given.
But he goes down with such theatrics , he’s got his arms out claiming a pen before he hits the floor.
This puts a dought in the refs mind and VAR are just useless.
If you don’t go down you get nothing.
If you go down easy your a diver.
The poor quality of reffing has partially caused this imo over the years.
Cheating is the main cause though .
		
Click to expand...

Surely VAR was supposed to resolve this though? I agree Zaha has brought the onfield decision on himself but when looked on the screen it is as clear as day that he is fouled and the decision should be reversed. I don't blame any onfield ref for having doubts, the cheating done by players is so widespread that it is a nightmare for them. The bloke in the studio though............

We have had a few this week and I find them bemusing. What are they actually watching?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 17, 2020)

A players "reputation" shouldnt be taken into consideration by the refs otherwise hes not being impartial.

With VAR in mind shouldnt all players be given a clean slate this season?


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 17, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Surely VAR was supposed to resolve this though? I agree Zaha has brought the onfield decision on himself but when looked on the screen it is as clear as day that he is fouled and the decision should be reversed. I don't blame any onfield ref for having doubts, the cheating done by players is so widespread that it is a nightmare for them. The bloke in the studio though............

We have had a few this week and I find them bemusing. What are they actually watching?
		
Click to expand...

Var was meant to be for clear and obvious errors 

Did the official reviewing think it's not enough of a mistake to overturn?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 17, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Var was meant to be for clear and obvious errors

Did the official reviewing think it's not enough of a mistake to overturn?
		
Click to expand...

He must have been watching a different match to the one he was supposed to be then. That or he was at a good part in a book and couldn't be bothered to look up.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 17, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He must have been watching a different match to the one he was supposed to be then. That or he was at a good part in a book and couldn't be bothered to look up.
		
Click to expand...

Just watched it again 

One angle looks a great tackle

The other looks like a clear pen

Ref looks blocked out tho which is why he didn't give . Maybe the error isn't obvious because the ref is blocked so his decision stands? Who knows 

Var is awful .. well the officials are

Bring in pitch side monitorsb


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 17, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			A players "reputation" shouldnt be taken into consideration by the refs otherwise hes not being impartial.

With VAR in mind shouldnt all players be given a clean slate this season?
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps reputation is the wrong word. Some players are more 'prone' to dive, leave a leg out etc. Refs do talk about this, they are aware of it, and that means they may well be less likely to give a decision for that player unless it is an absolute slam dunker. They don't want to be tricked and exposed across the media. 

Even with VAR behind them, if a refs decision is over turned then that will be noted back at Ref HQ, this info is kept along with other stats. Too many overturned decisions and they will be demoted. I doubt they have given anyone a clean slate, just my opnion.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 17, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Just watched it again

One angle looks a great tackle

The other looks like a clear pen

Ref looks blocked out tho which is why he didn't give . Maybe the error isn't obvious because the ref is blocked so his decision stands? Who knows

Var is awful .. well the officials are

Bring in pitch side monitorsb
		
Click to expand...

I can understand why the ref doesn't give it but that is why VAR is there. He whacks the back of Zaha's leg, clear as you like. He might get the ball but he takes his leg out to get to it. I think if the ref goes to see that pitchside he changes his mind. 

Maybe the VAR is reluctant to change a decision of a colleague, trying to defend them?


----------



## fundy (Jul 17, 2020)

Crowds back in October according to Bojo


----------



## fundy (Jul 17, 2020)

fundy said:



			Crowds back in October according to Bojo
		
Click to expand...


sounds like very low key trials starting in august, county cricket games


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 17, 2020)

fundy said:



			Crowds back in October according to Bojo
		
Click to expand...

I've heard they've spoken to arsenal as they've been using SD for the last 4 seasons in the stands 🤭🤭


----------



## fundy (Jul 17, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I've heard they've spoken to arsenal as they've been using SD for the last 4 seasons in the stands 🤭🤭
		
Click to expand...

ho ho ho 

only 4 

denied a 60k full house to see us destroy the champions the other night too


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 17, 2020)

fundy said:



			ho ho ho 

only 4 

denied a 60k full house to see us fluke a win against the champions the other night too 

Click to expand...

More accurate 😉


----------



## fundy (Jul 17, 2020)

33% possession, 3 shots, 2 of which were on target, 2 corners compared to 67% possession, 24 shots of which 8 were on target, 13 corners

looks like we destroyed you 2-1 to me


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 17, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Surely VAR was supposed to resolve this though? I agree Zaha has brought the onfield decision on himself but when looked on the screen it is as clear as day that he is fouled and the decision should be reversed. I don't blame any onfield ref for having doubts, the cheating done by players is so widespread that it is a nightmare for them. The bloke in the studio though............

We have had a few this week and I find them bemusing. What are they actually watching?
		
Click to expand...

I totally agree what are they watching.
If the ref tells var that he didn’t have a clear view, they are not correcting him just helping.
I just think the refs are not good enough even with all the tech.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 17, 2020)

fundy said:



			33% possession, 3 shots, 2 of which were on target, 2 corners compared to 67% possession, 24 shots of which 8 were on target, 13 corners

looks like we destroyed you 2-1 to me 

Click to expand...

With VVD and Alison playing for you .


----------



## fundy (Jul 17, 2020)

barring disasters that should be West Ham safe


----------



## Slime (Jul 17, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I agree. But this is what the masses wanted. You know the " offside is offside" gang.

*Do you honestly think that Zaha one wasnt a pen?*

Click to expand...

Yes, just as I think the Martial one wasn't a penalty.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 17, 2020)

fundy said:



			barring disasters that should be West Ham safe
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully Moyes stays , has a full pre season and window to prepare

Bowen and soucek are his buys which shows he still knows his stuff 

Top half next season if we hold onto rice and get new full backs .. playing so well


----------



## Slime (Jul 17, 2020)

fundy said:



			take the blinkers off, even Rio admitted it was a clear pen
		
Click to expand...

............ and Ian Wright said it wasn't.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 17, 2020)

Didn't expect this against Watford 

Norwich yes no offence 

But Watford?


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 17, 2020)

Watford are all over the shop! It looks like nobody actually told them they need to win this one! Their next games are City, and Arsenal away. They're literally just praying that Villa and Bournemouth don't win now.


----------



## Piece (Jul 17, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Watford are all over the shop! It looks like nobody actually told them they need to win this one! Their next games are City, and Arsenal away. They're literally just praying that Villa and Bournemouth don't win now.
		
Click to expand...

I think that sums it up. We are relying on there being three worse clubs. This is pretty much the same side that was at the same level as Wolves a year ago. Miles apart now. 🙈😭


----------



## Piece (Jul 17, 2020)

And to make it worse, I have to listen to Eni Aluko.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 17, 2020)

Piece said:



			I think that sums it up. We are relying on there being three worse clubs. This is pretty much the same side that was at the same level as Wolves a year ago. Miles apart now. 🙈😭
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I'm really wondering what happened. You were 10th or something last season? Don't know what went wrong. Although I don't think you've ever had good enough defenders since you came up really. 



Piece said:



			And to make it worse, I have to listen to Eni Aluko.
		
Click to expand...

God, she is woeful.


----------



## fundy (Jul 17, 2020)

Piece said:



			I think that sums it up. *We are relying on there being three worse clubs*. This is pretty much the same side that was at the same level as Wolves a year ago. Miles apart now. 🙈😭
		
Click to expand...


you may just have picked the right year lol


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 17, 2020)

fundy said:



			you may just have picked the right year lol
		
Click to expand...

Depends. Always one fluke result from one of those sides down there. With Villa's goal difference I think they are doomed but Bournemouth are only a couple of goals down but need a win assuming Watford don't get anymore points


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 17, 2020)

Expected more of a game tonight

Second half was more fight but after drinks could only see one result


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 17, 2020)

Watford are in huge trouble now. I can't see them getting a point from City or Arsenal away, and Bournemouth will just need the one win - can definitely see them getting it at Goodison on the final day.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 17, 2020)

Moyes got things spot on tonight. Saw we were losing our foothold on the game so brought on Haller .. almost scored with first touch .. never in doubt from there

Feel for Watford. Poorly run with the management changes constantly that they could end up going down. Hopefully won't but now it's touch and go

Moyes to stay for another 2 seasons please


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 17, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Moyes got things spot on tonight. Saw we were losing our foothold on the game so brought on Haller .. almost scored with first touch .. never in doubt from there

Feel for Watford. Poorly run with the management changes constantly that they could end up going down. Hopefully won't but now it's touch and go

*Moyes to stay for another 2 seasons please*

Click to expand...

Really? When he came in you were just out of the relegation places, and now you're.. just out of the relegation places. Shouldn't you have done more with that squad? Some really good players knocking about.


----------



## davemc1 (Jul 18, 2020)

Good to see Leeds back up. Proper club.

There are too many crappy limited teams in the division. The league as a whole would be and was a better product with strong clubs with good teams such as Leeds. You could also add Villa into this. 

This is all my opinion, and no offence meant to the likes of Bournemouth, Norwich, West Ham etc


----------



## DanFST (Jul 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Some really good players knocking about.
		
Click to expand...

Who? I haven't seen them.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 18, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Really? When he came in you were just out of the relegation places, and now you're.. just out of the relegation places. Shouldn't you have done more with that squad? Some really good players knocking about.
		
Click to expand...

Our squad is imbalanced, I trust him to balance it up whilst keeping us safe until we can then go for a manager who can kick us on

Rather than before just taking MP and giving him millions to buy a lot of expensive players but not necessarily in the areas we need. Take yarmenlko. Love him great player but did we need a 17 million winger with Antonio and our youth players about? Could have been used at full back , this season was fornals. Again I really rate and like fornals but 24 million on another CAM player? We already have lanzini and Anderson who can play there. It's was unnecessary buying when we have two rubbish full backs 

Moyes comes back bamn Bowen and soucek. Those were type of players we needed. Workers 

Plus it's the manor we have played since the return. Should have beat arsenal away but didn't take our chances. Liverpool we should have beat or least point but a rare 2 errors from fabainski!!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 18, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Good to see Leeds back up. Proper club.

There are too many crappy limited teams in the division. The league as a whole would be and was a better product with strong clubs with good teams such as Leeds. You could also add Villa into this.

This is all my opinion, and no offence meant to the likes of Bournemouth, Norwich, West Ham etc
		
Click to expand...

Is that the Leeds who haven’t been in the top flight for 14 years, been down to the third tier and went into administration.

Proper strong Club that like.

And have spent less time in top flight football than West Ham.


----------



## Fade and Die (Jul 18, 2020)

I cannot stand Leeds and would gladly support BLM for a few minutes if they ripped down the statue of that horrible little turd Billy Bremner outside their ground and threw it into the nearest river. Usually you go to places outside football...they're great, ScouseLand Geordieland...brilliant friendly places...but Leeds they hear the accent..that's it...The most ill mannered and surly people I have ever met!


----------



## Rlburnside (Jul 18, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			I cannot stand Leeds and would gladly support BLM for a few minutes if they ripped down the statue of that horrible little turd Billy Bremner outside their ground and threw it into the nearest river. Usually you go to places outside football...they're great, ScouseLand Geordieland...brilliant friendly places...but Leeds they hear the accent..that's it...The most ill mannered and surly people I have ever met!
		
Click to expand...




Fade and Die said:



			I cannot stand Leeds and would gladly support BLM for a few minutes if they ripped down the statue of that horrible little turd Billy Bremner outside their ground and threw it into the nearest river. Usually you go to places outside football...they're great, ScouseLand Geordieland...brilliant friendly places...but Leeds they hear the accent..that's it...The most ill mannered and surly people I have ever met!
		
Click to expand...

I originally come from London going back a good few years,  2 of us went in a pub just outside Leeds on a Sunday dinner time once they heard our accent that was it, not one person spoke to us including the Barman

Never experienced anything like that before or since.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 18, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			I cannot stand Leeds and would gladly support BLM for a few minutes if they ripped down the statue of that horrible little turd Billy Bremner outside their ground and threw it into the nearest river. Usually you go to places outside football...they're great, ScouseLand Geordieland...brilliant friendly places...but Leeds they hear the accent..that's it...The most ill mannered and surly people I have ever met!
		
Click to expand...

Bremner was one helluva player though.


----------



## Slime (Jul 18, 2020)

Norwich City. 
A couple of players really let themselves and their teammates down today.
Very poor.


----------



## Piece (Jul 18, 2020)

davemc1 said:



			Good to see Leeds back up. Proper club.

There are too many crappy limited teams in the division. The league as a whole would be and was a better product with strong clubs with good teams such as Leeds. You could also add Villa into this.

This is all my opinion, and no offence meant to the likes of Bournemouth, Norwich, West Ham etc
		
Click to expand...

🤐🤐🤐🤐🤐🤐


----------



## paddyc (Jul 18, 2020)

I assume we are posting for the Fa cup semi. This could two ways i feel, a comfortable city win or Arsenal will get hammered. We need to score first to have any chance and every player needs to have a blinder.


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 18, 2020)

Mustafi being Mustafi.


----------



## paddyc (Jul 18, 2020)

OOOH yeah Auba get in


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 18, 2020)

paddyc said:



			OOOH yeah Auba get in
		
Click to expand...

Great finish

Leeds have done well and I like Bielsa as their manager and football needs the odd eccentric. I think they'll need to spend and I wonder if they'll hold on to the likes of Bamford if big money comes forward. The race to join them got interesting and Fulham still have an outside chance if WBA and Brentford have meltdowns - unlikely. Looking at the standard of Norwich and some of the other sides around the bottom I think Leeds have a good chance to stay up but then you have that second season syndrome


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 18, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Great finish

Leeds have done well and I like Bielsa as their manager and football needs the odd eccentric. I think they'll need to spend and I wonder if they'll hold on to the likes of Bamford if big money comes forward. The race to join them got interesting and Fulham still have an outside chance if WBA and Brentford have meltdowns - unlikely. Looking at the standard of Norwich and some of the other sides around the bottom I think Leeds have a good chance to stay up but then you have that second season syndrome
		
Click to expand...

Tbf Norwich were equally as good in the championship last year as Leeds this. 

Bamford isn't PL quality imo. As with almost all promoted clubs. Spending wisely is the key.


----------



## paddyc (Jul 18, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbf Norwich were equally as good in the championship last year as Leeds this.

Bamford isn't PL quality imo. As with almost all promoted clubs. Spending wisely is the key.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah agree. Bamford never good enough for PL. Great that Leeds are back and really hope they stay there now. Too bigger club not to be


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 18, 2020)

I'm quite pleased Leeds are going up. I see them as a big club who should be in the Premier League - I grew watching footy in the 90s, so they were Premier League then of course as well. And it's always fun when there's a team everybody loves to hate.


----------



## fundy (Jul 18, 2020)

Gtfi Aubam


----------



## paddyc (Jul 18, 2020)

paddyc said:



			OOOH yeah Auba get in
		
Click to expand...

This!!!!


----------



## fundy (Jul 18, 2020)

Destroyed Liverpool midweek, now weve destroyed City 

Wemberleeeeeeeeeeeee


----------



## Fish (Jul 18, 2020)

Now to complete the London Derby and dump both mancs out 💙😎


----------



## paddyc (Jul 18, 2020)

Something to cheer about at last for gooners. Get in, great defensive performance


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 18, 2020)

Well played Arsenal.
Very similar to the Liverpool game.
Played well first half ,brilliant defending second half.


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 18, 2020)

Happy as.

Not how I would like to see play going forwards, but pragmatic play given the players we have. Cudos Arteta. Well done.


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 18, 2020)

I was worried when Auba missed his first chance, and thought that may be one we would regret. Shouldn't have been.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 18, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			I was worried when Auba missed his first chance, and thought that may be one we would regret. Shouldn't have been.
		
Click to expand...

I think a bit more quality in your final ball and you could have put a lot more past them.
Enjoy the final.


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 18, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I think a bit more quality in your final ball and you could have put a lot more past them.
Enjoy the final.
		
Click to expand...

Cheers.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 19, 2020)

Traminator said:



			I was around when Villa were winning the League then European Cup so I always think of them as one of the "big" clubs.
Before they went down though they were utter dross for quite a while, entertainment-wise I don't think they've done anything for years worthy of note.
Now all we need is Forest back....
		
Click to expand...

Why do we need a club back that has won twice the number of  European cups than all of the London clubs have together?


----------



## Captainron (Jul 19, 2020)

Living in Leeds for 13 years when I first moved made me realise just how much passion there is in football over here. It’s like the Afrikaaners and rugby in South Africa.

I went to Elland Road a few times to watch them and the crowd was bonkers. I wouldn’t take a kid there to be honest because the abuse they hurled was unbelievable. 

But despite going down and tumbling into the third tier the fans stuck with the team and they are a big team in a big city. 

I think the Prem will be better with them there.


----------



## Piece (Jul 19, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Happy as.

Not how I would like to see play going forwards, but pragmatic play given the players we have. Cudos Arteta. Well done.
		
Click to expand...

Always good to see the big, proper clubs doing over the little club. The FA Cup is a better competition when that happens. 🙄

😉🤣


----------



## Captainron (Jul 19, 2020)

Piece said:



			Always good to see the big, proper clubs doing over the little club. The FA Cup is a better competition when that happens. 🙄

😉🤣
		
Click to expand...

It is great when it’s against a club that can buy success.


----------



## fundy (Jul 19, 2020)

murmurs that Watford are going to replace Pearson for the last 2 games of the season, not sure a side will ever have had as many mangers in a season if thats true


----------



## Captainron (Jul 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			murmurs that Watford are going to replace Pearson for the last 2 games of the season, not sure a side will ever have had as many mangers in a season if thats true
		
Click to expand...

If they go down will they still try and build a new stadium? #askingforafriend


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			murmurs that Watford are going to replace Pearson for the last 2 games of the season, not sure a side will ever have had as many mangers in a season if thats true
		
Click to expand...

If that is true Watford deserve to go down. They treat managers like nothing


----------



## Piece (Jul 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			If that is true Watford deserve to go down. They treat managers like nothing
		
Click to expand...

🤔


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 19, 2020)

Piece said:



			🤔
		
Click to expand...

Can't agree with it surely? You guys change your managers constantly 

No one ever really given a chance to do well


----------



## fundy (Jul 19, 2020)

West Ham had 12 managers in 14 years, people in glass houses and all that.......


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			West Ham had 12 managers in 14 years, people in glass houses and all that.......
		
Click to expand...

So more years than managers? Which why go back 14 years why not go back further or does that suit your point 

Watford have had 3 in one season soon to be 4

It's 13 managers since 1994 or 14 since 1990

Depending if you count when brooking took over whilst roeder was sick and then step down when he came back 

2 of them were caretakers for a month until a full time manager was found


----------



## fundy (Jul 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			So more years than managers? Which why go back 14 years why not go back further or does that suit your point

Watford have had 3 in one season soon to be 4

It's 13 managers since 1994 or 14 since 1990

Depending if you count when brooking took over whilst roeder was sick and then step down when he came back

2 of them were caretakers for a month until a full time manager was found
		
Click to expand...


yeah why would i chose numbers that prove my point lol

so the lines 1 year per manager is ok, any more is too many is it? or does that just suit you criticising Watford but not your own club


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			yeah why would i chose numbers that prove my point lol

so the lines 1 year per manager is ok, any more is too many is it? or does that just suit you criticising Watford but not your own club 

Click to expand...

Sacking a manager more than once per season shows the problem isn't the manager .

3 full time managers in a season . Ignoring Mullins as caretaker isn't good

Has it even been done before?


----------



## Piece (Jul 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Can't agree with it surely? You guys change your managers constantly

No one ever really given a chance to do well
		
Click to expand...

The structure the owners brought in allows the regular hire and fire of head coaches (not managers) without undue upheaval at the club, despite what social media think. This structure has kept us in the Premier League for 5, and hopefully more, years. This year our lack of player investment in key areas has caught up with us though.

Do I agree with Pearson being sacked? No, not really.

It's ok though, we are not a proper club, so we will be out of everyone's hair soon. 😂. Or maybe we will stick around and stuff another big club. 😋


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 19, 2020)

Piece said:



			The structure the owners brought in allows the regular hire and fire of head coaches (not managers) without undue upheaval at the club, despite what social media think. This structure has kept us in the Premier League for 5, and hopefully more, years. This year our lack of player investment in key areas has caught up with though.

Do I agree with Pearson being sacked? No, not really. 

It's ok though, we are not a proper club, so we will be out of everyone's hair soon. 😂. Or maybe we will stick around and stuff another big club. 😋
		
Click to expand...

Sounds like our clubs both suffer from ideas above their stations

We keep trying to go for a "sexy" manager to case a pipe dream of European football. Rather than getting a stable steady manager (like we have with Moyes now) and build foundations of a club that can be then go for slow progress 

We almost achieved it with bilic replacing big Sam. However we heavily depended on payet and didn't then invest in other areas 

Once MP took over we spent tones to try and get back to where we were but damage was done 

I'd like to see Moyes stay for 2 seasons at least to oversea a transition of just treading water to like a top 12, then top 8 finish before pushing the top 6 mayb one day with shrewd investment


----------



## Junior (Jul 19, 2020)

Anyone let me know why Martial, Pogba and Greenwood are all on the bench ?


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 19, 2020)

Junior said:



			Anyone let me know why Martial, Pogba and Greenwood are all on the bench ?
		
Click to expand...

FA cup worth a lot less than champions league.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 19, 2020)

Junior said:



			Anyone let me know why Martial, Pogba and Greenwood are all on the bench ?
		
Click to expand...

Because we aren’t allowed to play fourteen players at the same time.


----------



## Junior (Jul 19, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			FA cup worth a lot less than champions league.
		
Click to expand...

Europa League


----------



## fundy (Jul 19, 2020)

Junior said:



			Europa League 

Click to expand...


expect he means next years CL after Leicester lost today


----------



## Slime (Jul 19, 2020)

Apparently that wasn't a penalty.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 19, 2020)

Junior said:



			Europa League 

Click to expand...

Earning CL via league. 

Although you could do it via Europa again.


----------



## fundy (Jul 19, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			True. But all you've gotta do is smash Watford and CL sorted.
		
Click to expand...


watch out for the new manager effect


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jul 19, 2020)

Slime said:



			Apparently that wasn't a penalty. 

Click to expand...

I know it's Man It's but even they don't get penalties for fouls outside the area.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 19, 2020)

So, can Henderson play for Utd in the Europa Cup from semis onwards in the mini Cup?


----------



## Slime (Jul 19, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I know it's Man It's but even they don't get penalties for fouls outside the area.
		
Click to expand...

Didn't even get a free kick.


----------



## fundy (Jul 19, 2020)

oops DDG


----------



## Slime (Jul 19, 2020)

My God, that was a shocker!


----------



## Piece (Jul 19, 2020)

DDG. Please someone find Roy Keane and get his reaction on that ‘save’ 😆


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			oops DDG
		
Click to expand...

When they get champs league they might be able to attract a better keeper


----------



## Slime (Jul 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			When they get champs league they might be able to attract a better keeper
		
Click to expand...

We already have a better 'keeper!


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 19, 2020)

Junior said:



			Anyone let me know why Martial, Pogba and Greenwood are all on the bench ?
		
Click to expand...

Worried about the return of sir David on weds


----------



## fundy (Jul 19, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			When they get champs league they might be able to attract a better keeper
		
Click to expand...

got 2 better ones havent they in Romero and Henderson


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 19, 2020)

Slime said:



			We already have a better 'keeper!
		
Click to expand...

Correct but he our on loan


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 19, 2020)

fundy said:



			got 2 better ones havent they in Romero and Henderson
		
Click to expand...

 Plus whoever is in the youth system


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 19, 2020)

It can't be many pages back people were still claiming this 'dip' was not more worrying and he is in the top 3 keepers in the PL. The evidence to the contrary keeps piling up.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 19, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It can't be many pages back people were still claiming this 'dip' was not more worrying and he is in the top 3 keepers in the PL. The evidence to the contrary keeps piling up.
		
Click to expand...

I'll hold my hands up. I was one of em. I think if he goes elsewhere he'll recapture it too. 

That being said.if they can get some sort of decent fee I'd sell him. Romero and Henderson would be equally competitive.


----------



## fundy (Jul 19, 2020)

good goal Harry


----------



## Fish (Jul 19, 2020)

💙💙💙


----------



## chrisd (Jul 19, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			That being said.if they can get some sort of decent fee I'd sell him. Romero and Henderson would be equally competitive.
		
Click to expand...

I reckon Jordon Henderson would be a better keeper at the moment 😁😁


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 19, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I'll hold my hands up. I was one of em. I think if he goes elsewhere he'll recapture it too.

That being said.if they can get some sort of decent fee I'd sell him. Romero and Henderson would be equally competitive.
		
Click to expand...

Me to ,to a degree.
But how many mistakes can UTD put up with.
Havnt seen it yet . Motd later.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 19, 2020)

DDG is only 29 so could easily go elsewhere for a decent fee. I don't know why but he seems so short of confidence at the moment and wonder if United would look to replace him. Not so long ago he was involved in that transfer saga with Real Madrid but can't see them or any other big side coming in on current form


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 20, 2020)

Oh dear, I hope Fernandes is ok.....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1284913366801276928


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 20, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285170142142500866


----------



## Jensen (Jul 20, 2020)

So, in Jose's last 2 HOME games for Spurs, we see that both opponents dominated possession. Leicester had 71%, Arsenal 63%. Both games were won by Spurs, but to me the stats paint a picture of things to come, and they don't look good.
I see a team that play HOME games like an away team, sit back and then hit them on the break. Well I can't see too many Spurs fans enjoying that product served up.
Yes, we want success, but it's got to be with the right balance and Jose doesn't have a track record for entertainment.
Sadly I think this is evident of the dross to come🙁


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 20, 2020)

Jensen said:



			So, in Jose's last 2 HOME games for Spurs, we see that both opponents dominated possession. Leicester had 71%, Arsenal 63%. Both games were won by Spurs, but to me the stats paint a picture of things to come, and they don't look good.
I see a team that play HOME games like an away team, sit back and then hit them on the break. Well I can't see too many Spurs fans enjoying that product served up.
Yes, we want success, but it's got to be with the right balance and Jose doesn't have a track record for entertainment.
Sadly I think this is evident of the dross to come🙁
		
Click to expand...

My spurs supporting mate is very much not fussed about Jose he sees him as a stop gap until they can get somebody else in but Jose will oversee any changes in the squad whilst maybe winning a cup 

For him it's not about Jose being manager it's who is next that's key


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Jul 20, 2020)




----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 20, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



View attachment 31693

Click to expand...

3 posts up Phil 😳😉


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 20, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



View attachment 31693

Click to expand...

It wasn’t funny earlier.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 21, 2020)

Jensen said:



			So, in Jose's last 2 HOME games for Spurs, we see that both opponents dominated possession. Leicester had 71%, Arsenal 63%. Both games were won by Spurs, but to me the stats paint a picture of things to come, and they don't look good.
I see a team that play HOME games like an away team, sit back and then hit them on the break. Well I can't see too many Spurs fans enjoying that product served up.
Yes, we want success, but it's got to be with the right balance and Jose doesn't have a track record for entertainment.
Sadly I think this is evident of the dross to come🙁
		
Click to expand...

We won 3-0! Lord above.


----------



## fundy (Jul 21, 2020)

after the lord majors show.....

back to the shrug the shoulders version of David Luiz sigh


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 21, 2020)

Beat Liverpool, City, and lose to Villa. 

Yep, sounds about right.


----------



## Rlburnside (Jul 21, 2020)

Come on Villa don’t sit back to much, be pleased if they stay up.


----------



## fundy (Jul 21, 2020)

Geez its even harder to believe we beat City 2-0 after watching that, so so bad


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 21, 2020)

Typical flipping Arsenal. Pathetic.


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 21, 2020)

Wow, imagine Villa staying up because they got a point from the goal line technology cock up


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 21, 2020)

Thanks Arsenal, we can't finish lower than 7th but them going down would've been great.


----------



## paddyc (Jul 21, 2020)

fundy said:



			Geez its even harder to believe we beat City 2-0 after watching that, so so bad
		
Click to expand...

Sounds like I didnt miss much. I guess it was always on the cards after Saturday. I would like Villa to stay up though. Need to be in PL, big club and great old ground.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 22, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285870336110743553


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 22, 2020)

That needs 2 likes. Guard of honour my backside


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285870336110743553

Click to expand...

I will have a bet that wasn’t a set up.
Peter Reid wont be getting any oscars.
At least two of them might still get a game.


----------



## fundy (Jul 22, 2020)

What a joke Pogba


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 22, 2020)

fundy said:



			What a joke Pogba
		
Click to expand...

Is he old enough to remember Rivaldo in 98?


----------



## Slime (Jul 22, 2020)

Pogba


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 22, 2020)

Long way to go but we look good first half 

Gift of a goal really. Pre var you may have got away with that but wow what a clown


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 22, 2020)

Tidy bonus for Moyes after tonight. He has West Ham well organised and playing well. He has certainly done the job required. 

Utd seem to be lacking a bit of steam after a very strong run. Leicester v utd is a huge game on Sunday now.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 22, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Tidy bonus for Moyes after tonight. He has West Ham well organised and playing well. He has certainly done the job required.

Utd seem to be lacking a bit of steam after a very strong run. Leicester v utd is a huge game on Sunday now.
		
Click to expand...

Done the job but they'll need money and need to buy well to make progress going forward. I still think West Ham will be bottom third next year


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 22, 2020)

Some strike that 👌


----------



## fundy (Jul 22, 2020)

Championship showing its the most exciting league yet again tonight


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 22, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Done the job but they'll need money and need to buy well to make progress going forward. I still think West Ham will be bottom third next year
		
Click to expand...

Not a chance 

12th-9th

Look so much better organized

Without Haller and Anderson aswell. If Moyes gets them flying we will be pushing up

The signs were there since he took over 

Should have beaten Liverpool if wasn't for 2 errors from fabainski..


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 22, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Not a chance

12th-9th

Look so much better organized

Without Haller and Anderson aswell. If Moyes gets them flying we will be pushing up

The signs were there since he took over

Should have beaten Liverpool if wasn't for 2 errors from fabainski..
		
Click to expand...

Tbf there are always a few teams that are crap for 30 gamesthen at the end pull their socks up. 

Imo West ham as they are without signings will be as likely to struggle again as they will finish 12th...

Lots of players signed in wrong positions. Obv if Antonio could perform all season then anything food happen. As one decent scorer makes all the difference. Ings being the catalyst for us. But if he doesn't, and history makes me belive he won't. 

That's not taking into account that if you play steady Moyes footy for half a season. Then a large selection of your fans will turn on him wanting you to play "the West ham way" which as far as I can recall is, poor footy and struggle, but they seem to think it's something else.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 22, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbf there are always a few teams that are crap for 30 gamesthen at the end pull their socks up. 

Imo West ham as they are without signings will be as likely to struggle again as they will finish 12th...

Lots of players signed in wrong positions. Obv if Antonio could perform all season then anything food happen. As one decent scorer makes all the difference. Ings being the catalyst for us. But if he doesn't, and history makes me belive he won't. 

That's not taking into account that if you play steady Moyes footy for half a season. Then a large selection of your fans will turn on him wanting you to play "the West ham way" which as far as I can recall is, poor footy and struggle, but they seem to think it's something else.
		
Click to expand...

Moyes plays fantastic football, 8 goals scored with only 2 let in past 3 games 

Got an eye for a player in transfer market (Bowen and soucek)

Already been scouting for new players (rumours Robinson of Wigan and eze of QPR)

3 year deal handed to him please


----------



## fundy (Jul 22, 2020)

gotta feel for Lee Westwood, trying to host a European tour golf event and Forest manage to blow the play offs from 3 pts and +5 GD in front tonight

gets the pleasure of playing with Eddie Pepperell tomorrow, he wouldnt be the type to take the proverbial would he lol


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 22, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Moyes plays fantastic football, 8 goals scored with only 2 let in past 3 games

Got an eye for a player in transfer market (Bowen and soucek)

Already been scouting for new players (rumours Robinson of Wigan and eze of QPR)

3 year deal handed to him please
		
Click to expand...

That first bit is a stretch. 

Not sure I'd use 3 games to evaluate his style as opposed to 15 years of management. Certainly not when one is against a shocking Norwich side where the 4 goals for Antonio came from a grand total of about 9 yards..... 

That being said, I think he's good enough for West Ham, as was Allardyce. But I don't think a lot of West Ham fans will think so in 6 months when they're bemoaning his style.


----------



## fundy (Jul 22, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			That first bit is a stretch.

Not sure I'd use 3 games to evaluate his style as opposed to 15 years of management. Certainly not when one is against a shocking Norwich side where the 4 goals for Antonio came from a grand total of about 9 yards.....

That being said, I think he's good enough for West Ham, as was Allardyce. But I don't think a lot of West Ham fans will think so in 6 months when they're bemoaning his style.
		
Click to expand...


Moyes isnt the messiah, hes also not the problem at Wham


----------



## fundy (Jul 22, 2020)

Wow, just seen a stat, the bottom 5 clubs in the championship when play resumed after the stoppage all stayed up!!!!! plenty glad it wasnt cancelled and done on ppg


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 22, 2020)




----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 22, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 31713

Click to expand...

*


----------



## fundy (Jul 22, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 31713

Click to expand...


hello stranger 

nice pic of the unbearables  congrats, been by far the best team when it mattered


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 22, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



*Moyes plays fantastic football, *8 goals scored with only 2 let in past 3 games

Got an eye for a player in transfer market (Bowen and soucek)

Already been scouting for new players (rumours Robinson of Wigan and eze of QPR)

3 year deal handed to him please
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 22, 2020)

Campioni Liverpool


----------



## hairball_89 (Jul 22, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Campioni Liverpool
		
Click to expand...

Champions of everywhere.

YNWA.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 23, 2020)

hairball_89 said:



			Champions of f*cking everywhere.

YNWA.
		
Click to expand...

Enjoy fellow comrade, commence operation unbearable 😁😁


----------



## davemc1 (Jul 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Moyes plays fantastic football, 8 goals scored with only 2 let in past 3 games

Got an eye for a player in transfer market (Bowen and soucek)

Already been scouting for new players (rumours Robinson of Wigan and eze of QPR)

3 year deal handed to him please
		
Click to expand...

Give the football genius a 10 year rolling contract!


----------



## davemc1 (Jul 23, 2020)

fundy said:



			Moyes isnt the messiah, hes also not the problem at Wham
		
Click to expand...

Is he just a very naughty boy? 🤷‍♂️


----------



## davemc1 (Jul 23, 2020)

How good is that pulisic btw!! Hilarious how shit their defence is yet they keep buying forward thinking players. Jesus, it’s like Alison an VVD arnt a president 🤷‍♂️🤣


----------



## davemc1 (Jul 23, 2020)

Anyway onto the champions! ❤️



Can’t say much otherwise I won’t win that tm prize...


----------



## Fish (Jul 23, 2020)

I see Henderson went ‘full on John Terry’ to lift the cup😜

I wonder if the premier league asked him to, like both teams were asked by UEFA to be in full kit in their final for the presentation & celebrations because they weren’t happy with yernited players being in suits the year before, although JT still got ridiculed for it🤔

Note Sky couldn’t have been more one sided with their panel guests, Carragher, Barnes & Souness! 

Dug my bunker, no sports news, papers or social media until it all dies down.....


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 23, 2020)

I'm just sat here in admiration of the business acumen of the boat supplies owner who bought in a container load of red flares and is now planning early retirement. Well played that person.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 23, 2020)

fundy said:



			Moyes isnt the messiah, hes also not the problem at Wham
		
Click to expand...

It was Andrew Ridgeley, wasn't it?


----------



## Captainron (Jul 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Enjoy fellow comrade, commence operation unbearable 😁😁
		
Click to expand...

You’ve been that for nearly 40 years Stu.....

Enjoy it lar. Best team by miles


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 23, 2020)

Fish said:



			I see Henderson went ‘full on John Terry’ to lift the cup😜

I wonder if the premier league asked him to, like both teams were asked by UEFA to be in full kit in their final for the presentation & celebrations because they weren’t happy with yernited players being in suits the year before, although JT still got ridiculed for it🤔

*Note Sky couldn’t have been more one sided with their panel guests, Carragher, Barnes & Souness!*

Dug my bunker, no sports news, papers or social media until it all dies down.....
		
Click to expand...

Gallon or keg of Bitter Fishy 😁😁

I'm sure there were 100's of ex chelsea players who'd have loved to be pitch side watching us lift a trophy 🤭🤭😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 23, 2020)

Captainron said:



			You’ve been that for nearly 40 years Stu.....

Enjoy it lar. Best team by miles
		
Click to expand...

Well that's the narrative. 

I heard a few journos spouting 30yrs of hurt rubbish, far from it. Very far from it. 

We've had a fine time collecting cups over them years. Apart from those 12 months of the end of Rafa's reign and the 6 months  abomination of that really nice man who'll not be named, it's been boss.

This last few seasons has just made it even better.😉


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Not a chance

12th-9th

Look so much better organized

Without Haller and Anderson aswell. If Moyes gets them flying we will be pushing up

The signs were there since he took over

Should have beaten Liverpool if wasn't for 2 errors from fabainski..
		
Click to expand...

Didn't you say that last year??


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 23, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Didn't you say that last year??
		
Click to expand...

didnt you say that you guys didnt need any investment in first team and you would keep top 4 going ... lol


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			didnt you say that you guys didnt need any investment in first team and you would keep top 4 going ... lol
		
Click to expand...

No?


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 23, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			No?
		
Click to expand...

the season you spent nothing in the windows.. and I pointed out if you dont spend 30-40 million you go backwards in this league.. you were sure you didnt need to spend money to continue .. but true as you have regressed 

ill find the post later... got to get a rubber duck from behind the sofa. bloody kids


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			the season you spent nothing in the windows.. and I pointed out if you dont spend 30-40 million you go backwards in this league.. you were sure you didnt need to spend money to continue .. but true as you have regressed

ill find the post later... got to get a rubber duck from behind the sofa. bloody kids
		
Click to expand...

What I said was, it's difficult for us to attract a huge squad of players like City do because we're not paying the big wages so good players aren't going to come and sit on the bench like they do at City. We spent much more than that anyway on Ndombele, Lo Celso and Bergwijn, all of whom I think are good players, but Ndombele hasn't really worked out yet for whatever reason. 

We just desperately need to sort out our defence now, since Jan is leaving, Davinson Sanchez is terrible, and Aurier is worse than terrible and we don't have any other right backs. The only player we're linked with at the moment is Hojberg though - yet another midfielder when we have Sissoko, Winks, Lo Celso and Ndombele (possible Jose will let him leave though I guess). And Gedson has another year on his loan deal - not that he's made any impact at all.


----------



## brendy (Jul 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			the season you spent nothing in the windows.. and I pointed out if you dont spend 30-40 million you go backwards in this league.. you were sure you didnt need to spend money to continue .. but true as you have regressed

ill find the post later... got to get a rubber duck from behind the sofa. bloody kids
		
Click to expand...

If that was the case then surely by 2020 we'd have a league full of superteams? bit like the driver debate, spend another £450 each year to get another 10 yards, 10 years later, we aren't hitting it 100 yards further.
A good core team shouldn't need spending on every year, only when age,injury or another team comes knocking with a blank chequebook.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 23, 2020)

Post lockdown form table makes for interesting reading


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 23, 2020)

brendy said:



			If that was the case then surely by 2020 we'd have a league full of superteams? bit like the driver debate, spend another £450 each year to get another 10 yards, 10 years later, we aren't hitting it 100 yards further.
A good core team shouldn't need spending on every year, only when age,injury or another team comes knocking with a blank chequebook.
		
Click to expand...

You really have to spend or you do stand still. Everyone strengthens around you. You don't.. your players get older.. some may leave ..team is weaker 

Loan players with view to buy are false economy at times .. means you have to spend say 15 million just to get the same team you had last year 

We have that with soucek
Then zabs has left 



He needs replacing or we are weaker .. might get lucky with the youth team this time


Look what 30 million gets you now aswell. Maybe one good player or 3-4 punts ...


----------



## brendy (Jul 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			You really have to spend or you do stand still. Everyone strengthens around you. You don't.. your players get older.. some may leave ..team is weaker

Loan players with view to buy are false economy at times .. means you have to spend say 15 million just to get the same team you had last year

We have that with soucek
Then zabs has left



He needs replacing or we are weaker .. might get lucky with the youth team this time


Look what 30 million gets you now aswell. Maybe one good player or 3-4 punts ...
		
Click to expand...

There are some reasons to spend of course, but, if you have a decent team then that need to spend is lessened. I would be looking at the coaching team and scouts who look for the younger lads and ask myself why none/few seem to be coming through the ranks.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 31717


Post lockdown form table makes for interesting reading
		
Click to expand...

Liverpool have been playing in their flip flops waiting to go on holiday.
City and Utd have both been put out of the FA cup .
City have won a good victory In CAS.
But UTD might still be in the Europa league.
Still plenty to play for for some teams.
Should be interesting on Sunday.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 23, 2020)

brendy said:



			There are some reasons to spend of course, but, if you have a decent team then that need to spend is lessened. I would be looking at the coaching team and scouts who look for the younger lads and ask myself why none/few seem to be coming through the ranks.
		
Click to expand...

Depends on the age though.. I mean I'll use us as example again 

Snodgrass and noble both 33 now. Time to put noble out to be turned into glue surely. Won't be cheap to replace 

Rice I think is going to go to chelski .. leaving 3 positions to fill with whatever money we get from rice 



clubchamp98 said:



			Liverpool have been playing in their flip flops waiting to go on holiday.
City and Utd have both been put out of the FA cup .
City have won a good victory In CAS.
But UTD might still be in the Europa league.
Still plenty to play for for some teams.
Should be interesting on Sunday.
		
Click to expand...

Going to be a fantastic Sunday 

We could send villa or Watford down


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Depends on the age though.. I mean I'll use us as example again

Snodgrass and noble both 33 now. Time to put noble out to be turned into glue surely. Won't be cheap to replace

Rice I think is going to go to chelski .. leaving 3 positions to fill with whatever money we get from rice



Going to be a fantastic Sunday

We could send villa or Watford down
		
Click to expand...

Yes it will be a cup final for Rodgers and OGS.
If UTD get champions league then OGS has done a great job imo.
But a Vardy hat trick should see him good for the golden boot!


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 23, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes it will be a cup final for Rodgers and OGS.
*If UTD get champions league then OGS has done a great job imo.*
But a Vardy hat trick should see him good for the golden boot!
		
Click to expand...

I'd disagree.  With  *the best defence in the PL and now the best Front 3 along with the world class Fernandes they should be doing better than scraping into top 4.....

Anyway, we've been told on here plenty if times  Top 4 isnt an achievement for the big clubs, the only team that matters is the team with the most points😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 31717


Post lockdown form table makes for interesting reading
		
Click to expand...

Does it really? You've changed your tune since Lockdown, you were very pro null and void.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Does it really? You've changed your tune since Lockdown, you were very pro null and void.
		
Click to expand...

Which would have had the same outcome for us. People thought west ham were against to avoid relegation ....nope just for the right thing to do

Avoided it anyways


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Which would have had the same outcome for us. People thought west ham were against to avoid relegation ....nope just for the right thing to do

Avoided it anyways
		
Click to expand...

Yeah as if WHU didnt have their own interests at heart 🙄

Congratulations on staying up,  I look forward to watching Moysie's fantastic football next season 🤭🤭


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yeah as if WHU didnt have their own interests at heart 🙄

Congratulations on staying up,  I look forward to watching Moysie's fantastic football next season 🤭🤭
		
Click to expand...




Stuart_C said:



			Yeah as if WHU didnt have their own interests at heart 🙄

Congratulations on staying up,  I look forward to watching Moysie's fantastic football next season 🤭🤭
		
Click to expand...


You are gonna be in a great mood for months with the title so fancy a £10 bet .. h4h ofc

West ham to finish top 10

I think top 12 but that's boring bet .. you game?


----------



## SteveW86 (Jul 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			You are gonna be in a great mood for months with the title so fancy a £10 bet .. h4h ofc

West ham to finish top 10

I think top 12 but that's boring bet .. you game?
		
Click to expand...

Is that with Moyes in charge?


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 23, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Is that with Moyes in charge?
		
Click to expand...

Indeed it is, I really believe give him a pre season and a little investment will be fine

He has come in twice now with players that aren't his own and kept us up

He turned Arnie from a second rate winger to a decent striker 

He transformed Antonio .. made him more clinical rather than ball in China shop 

Let him have the team for a pre season and a couple signings.. he signed Bowen and soucek. Both of which have transformed our team 

He also was the one who really gave rice his chance. At cb at the time to keep us up 
This time he built the midfield around him 

We have looked excellent since lock down and pre lock down we were looking better the signs were there.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Indeed it is, I really believe give him a pre season and a little investment will be fine

He has come in twice now with players that aren't his own and kept us up

He turned Arnie from a second rate winger to a decent striker

He transformed Antonio .. made him more clinical rather than ball in China shop

Let him have the team for a pre season and a couple signings.. he signed Bowen and soucek. Both of which have transformed our team

He also was the one who really gave rice his chance. At cb at the time to keep us up
This time he built the midfield around him

We have looked excellent since lock down and pre lock down we were looking better the signs were there.
		
Click to expand...

And that’s why we all love footy.
Eternal optimism.

Supporting clubs of similar stature. I’ll go £10 h4h saints finish above West Ham if ya like?


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			And that’s why we all love footy.
Eternal optimism.

Supporting clubs of similar stature. I’ll go £10 h4h saints finish above West Ham if ya like?
		
Click to expand...

Oh definitely take you up on that, always an interesting battle £10 with yourself and possibly stu if he takes me up 

Keeps next season interesting


----------



## brendy (Jul 23, 2020)

Wife got me this for my birthday, arrived a day late but love it!


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 23, 2020)

brendy said:



			Wife got me this for my birthday, arrived a day late but love it!





Click to expand...

A phone you can't operate????


----------



## brendy (Jul 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			A phone you can't operate????
		
Click to expand...

No,. Im working too so got to get a bit of work in there in case the walls have eyes.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 23, 2020)

brendy said:



			No,. Im working too so got to get a bit of work in there in case the walls have eyes. 

Click to expand...

I meant more that we still can’t see what you bought lol


----------



## fundy (Jul 23, 2020)

brendy said:



			Wife got me this for my birthday, arrived a day late but love it!





Click to expand...


come on as a mod you know the rules, get the pics up


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 23, 2020)

Just seen that Birmingham are going to retire the No22 after Bellingham has left


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Just seen that Birmingham are going to retire the No22 after Bellingham has left 

Click to expand...

Don't agree with any retiring of numbers. Even our 6 for bobby Moore feels tacky and cringe

Should be an honour handed out to a deserving player


----------



## fundy (Jul 23, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Just seen that Birmingham are going to retire the No22 after Bellingham has left 

Click to expand...


40 games and 4 goals, cant see why people are surprised


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Don't agree with any retiring of numbers. Even our 6 for bobby Moore feels tacky and cringe

Should be an honour handed out to a deserving player
		
Click to expand...

I agree entirely. Unfortunately that sometimes means someone like Shane Long ends up with our No 7!


----------



## brendy (Jul 23, 2020)

fundy said:



			come on as a mod you know the rules, get the pics up 

Click to expand...

Showing fine for me. I'll relink from imgbb.


----------



## fundy (Jul 23, 2020)

brendy said:



			Showing fine for me. I'll relink from imgbb.
		
Click to expand...

on second thoughts, think i preferred the broken link


----------



## brendy (Jul 23, 2020)

fundy said:



			on second thoughts, think i preferred the broken link 

Click to expand...

Muahaha


----------



## Fish (Jul 23, 2020)

brendy said:



			Wife got me this for my birthday, arrived a day late but love it!








Click to expand...

Is it to help get the bar-be-que going


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I'd disagree.  With  *the best defence in the PL and now the best Front 3 along with the world class Fernandes they should be doing better than scraping into top 4.....

Anyway, we've been told on here plenty if times  Top 4 isnt an achievement for the big clubs, the only team that matters is the team with the most points😉
		
Click to expand...

Can’t argue there , but think he has done well if he gets CL.


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Oh definitely take you up on that, always an interesting battle £10 with yourself and possibly stu if he takes me up

Keeps next season interesting
		
Click to expand...

Match bet with Wolves?


----------



## PaulS (Jul 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Not a chance

12th-9th

Look so much better organized

Without Haller and Anderson aswell. If Moyes gets them flying we will be pushing up

The signs were there since he took over

Should have beaten Liverpool if wasn't for 2 errors from fabainski..
		
Click to expand...

😂😂

So it will be the same old West Ham , fans expecting high mid table , but the fans will be on the managers back because he doesn’t play “The West Ham” way ( whatever that is ) . 

The manager will then get sacked despite solid mid table , new manager will come in and battle to keep the team up then go in the Summer. Rinse repeat for West Ham , it’s pretty much the same for Everton expect they spend a lot more money for mid table mediocrity.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 23, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Match bet with Wolves?
		
Click to expand...

Interesting one with your Europa .. 

I'll go for it as it's charity but I don't see it..


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Interesting one with your Europa ..

I'll go for it as it's charity but I don't see it..
		
Click to expand...

Let's do the tenner for your lot not to finish top 10 instead. I'm planning on us winning the league next season so not really fair.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			You are gonna be in a great mood for months with the title so fancy a £10 bet .. h4h ofc

West ham to finish top 10

I think top 12 but that's boring bet .. you game?
		
Click to expand...

*shake hands* I'll happily put my money where my mouth is and I'll give you top 12.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 23, 2020)

brendy said:



			Wife got me this for my birthday, arrived a day late but love it!








Click to expand...

Doesnt she like you? 

😉


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 23, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			*shake hands* I'll happily put my money where my mouth is and I'll give you top 12.
		
Click to expand...

Sweet top 12 it is.. good interesting bets


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 23, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Let's do the tenner for your lot not to finish top 10 instead. I'm planning on us winning the league next season so not really fair.
		
Click to expand...

Ok I'll take it lol prob shouldn't


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 23, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Ok I'll take it lol prob shouldn't
		
Click to expand...

Christ, not only are you going to be massively disappointed next season, you're also going to be about £80 out of pocket and rising 🤣


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 23, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Christ, not only are you going to be massively disappointed next season, you're also going to be about £80 out of pocket and rising 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Well their all £10 bets so £30 lol


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 24, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Just seen that Birmingham are going to retire the No22 after Bellingham has left 

Click to expand...

That story was so bizarre, surely it had to be a Twitter wind up that caught on?


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 24, 2020)

“Back in the day”


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 24, 2020)

Why are some Liverpool fans wanting the owners out?


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 24, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Why are some Liverpool fans wanting the owners out?
		
Click to expand...

Not spent enough money?


----------



## rudebhoy (Jul 24, 2020)

Sitting 3rd in our Fantasy league which has a decent pot, in excess of £500 split between the first 3. 

Have a good chance of grabbing second, but a couple of guys only 10 points behind me, so choice of captain this week is going to be crucial. 

City players are the obvious choice, have got Sterling, Silva and Jesus in my team. Sterling did me a great turn midweek with 34 points, but am concerned Pep may bench him. Would have thought Silva a cert to start in his last game, so am leaning towards him, but if I knew Sterling was a certain starter, I'd stick with him. 

Any City fans on here? Advice would be welcome!


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 24, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Not spent enough money? 

Click to expand...

Probably not doing it "the Liverpool way" 🤣


----------



## davemc1 (Jul 24, 2020)

Hendo fwpoty 💪

Deserves it for that shuffle he does alone 🏆


----------



## hairball_89 (Jul 24, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Why are some Liverpool fans wanting the owners out?
		
Click to expand...

Because they're complete numpties. The owners are the best we've had in my lifetime. Yes, they're unbelievably wealthy personally, and could pump that into the club. But I'd rather the club ran itself and currently it's very clear Klopp, Edwards and the board are all pulling in the same direction. That's absolutely the most important thing in a successful club - all the right people with the same aim and the same view of how to get there. 

I'd say it's working.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 25, 2020)

Wow so Henderson as been the best player over the season 😳🤯
He’s not even been Liverpool’s best player 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 25, 2020)

I think when Henderson doesn’t play Liverpool certainly don’t pay as well. But how KDB didn’t get it is beyond me!


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 25, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I think when Henderson doesn’t play Liverpool certainly don’t pay as well. But how KDB didn’t get it is beyond me!
		
Click to expand...

Take VVD out of that team & they would drop more points than If Henderson‘s not in it. I’m with you on KDB,I’d even put Sterling above Henderson.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 25, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Take VVD out of that team & they would drop more points than If Henderson‘s not in it. I’m with you on KDB,I’d even put Sterling above Henderson.
		
Click to expand...

I dunno.  Henderson missed a few. Games mid season and they dropped. Don’t get me wrong, I’d pick both kdb and sterling in a dream team first, but I do think he’s importsnt, but not the most important.


----------



## adam6177 (Jul 26, 2020)

Not sure how I want today to pan out.... I'd love for both man utd and Chelsea to have missed out on the champions League spots, but on the balance of things I'll plump for 3rd and 4th to go to Leicester and Chelsea. 

As for relegation.... I hope Bournemouth manage to stay up somehow with Watford going down.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 26, 2020)

adam6177 said:



			Not sure how I want today to pan out.... I'd love for both man utd and Chelsea to have missed out on the champions League spots, but on the balance of things I'll plump for 3rd and 4th to go to Leicester and Chelsea. 

As for relegation.... I hope Bournemouth manage to stay up somehow with Watford going down.
		
Click to expand...

Before Watford sacked Pearson I was happy for them to stay up. Another knee jerk reaction so let them go. Get deeney out the league which is another plus.


----------



## fundy (Jul 26, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I think when Henderson doesn’t play Liverpool certainly don’t pay as well. But how KDB didn’t get it is beyond me!
		
Click to expand...


lets be honest, Rashford coming 3rd shows how accurate these awards are lol


----------



## Wolf (Jul 26, 2020)

adam6177 said:



			Not sure how I want today to pan out.... I'd love for both man utd and Chelsea to have missed out on the champions League spots, but on the balance of things I'll plump for 3rd and 4th to go to Leicester and Chelsea.

As for relegation.... I hope Bournemouth manage to stay up somehow with Watford going down.
		
Click to expand...

Im hoping Watford go down just because how they treated Pearson. Quite like them as a team but they deserve what they get now if we beat them at the Emirates today. 

Bournemouth for me deserve to go as well, absolutely nothing against them as a team and quite enjoy how they play but they've been down there so often now its just inevitable that relegation was coming. 

Hoping Villa get at least a point and stay up.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 26, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Im hoping Watford go down just because how they treated Pearson. Quite like them as a team but they deserve what they get now if we beat them at the Emirates today. 

Bournemouth for me deserve to go as well, absolutely nothing against them as a team and quite enjoy how they play but they've been down there so often now its just inevitable that relegation was coming. 

Hoping Villa get at least a point and stay up.
		
Click to expand...

I'm hoping you smash Watford because I want us to beat villa to keep the run going lol


----------



## 3offTheTee (Jul 26, 2020)

Will Real Madrid have to self isolate for 14 days when they come to Man. city next mont.

Tashy will be dancing in the streets. Hope yer well mi man!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 26, 2020)

3offTheTee said:



			Will Real Madrid have to self isolate for 14 days when they come to Man. city next mont.

Tashy will be dancing in the streets. Hope yer well mi man!
		
Click to expand...

That’s a good point.
How will that work.
Or does money talk?


----------



## pendodave (Jul 26, 2020)

I'd be happy to see Bournemouth go. When I've seen them they've been like Houghton's Brighton - time wasting, niggly, rotational fouling etc etc.
Would prefer villa to stay up. Big city clubs with lots of support are generally good for the game (imho). Also, like west ham, they are far too incompetent to ever manage to kill a game, and their support expects them to at least try and play football.
Watford? Despite being Hert's finest, it's hard to have an opinion, except that deeney's a **** and won't be missed.


----------



## fundy (Jul 26, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s a good point.
How will that work.
Or does money talk?
		
Click to expand...


think we all know money talks, not as if theres a precedent of spanish teams being allowed over to play


----------



## Wolf (Jul 26, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			I'm hoping you smash Watford because I want us to beat villa to keep the run going lol
		
Click to expand...

I hope they beat you, just because I prefer Villa and always enjoy seeing West Ham get beat whilst moaning about the West Ham way 😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 26, 2020)

adam6177 said:



			Not sure how I want today to pan out.... I'd love for both man utd and Chelsea to have missed out on the champions League spots, but on the balance of things I'll plump for 3rd and 4th to go to Leicester and Chelsea. 

As for relegation.... I hope Bournemouth manage to stay up somehow with Watford going down.
		
Click to expand...

I'd like Bournemouth to stay up from a footballing view, but it would be good to see Villa stay up and try and break back into the top half next season and stay there.


----------



## fundy (Jul 26, 2020)

pendodave said:



			I'd be happy to see Bournemouth go. When I've seen them they've been like Houghton's Brighton - time wasting, niggly, rotational fouling etc etc.
Would prefer villa to stay up.* Big city clubs with lots of support are generally good for the game (imho)*. Also, like west ham, they are far too incompetent to ever manage to kill a game, and their support expects them to at least try and play football.
Watford? Despite being Hert's finest, it's hard to have an opinion, except that deeney's a **** and won't be missed.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure the big cities having multiple sides is good for the game at all, just centralises it into a fewer locations.

Surely having a more diverse set of locations is better for the game (as well as the other cities/towns) that have a club in the premier league?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 26, 2020)

3offTheTee said:



			Will Real Madrid have to self isolate for 14 days when they come to Man. city next mont.

Tashy will be dancing in the streets. Hope yer well mi man!
		
Click to expand...

Just null and void the competition. It's not the same competition as it was before lockdown because it's going to a straight knock out  instead of 2 legs. 

Whoever wins,  it will always have an asterisk against it.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 26, 2020)

Wolf said:



			I hope they beat you, just because I prefer Villa and always enjoy seeing West Ham get beat whilst moaning about the West Ham way 😂
		
Click to expand...

That's the arsenal way now isn't it?


----------



## fundy (Jul 26, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Just null and void the competition. It's not the same competition as it was before lockdown because it's going to a straight knock out  instead of 2 legs.

Whoever wins,  it will always have an asterisk against it.
		
Click to expand...


wouldnt want to be the only ones with an asterisk eh


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			wouldnt want to be the only ones with an asterisk eh 

Click to expand...

All those crying for Null and Void in the league surely want the same for a competition that has completely changes its rules, no?


----------



## fundy (Jul 26, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			All those crying for Null and Void in the league surely want the same for a competition that has completely changes its rules, no?
		
Click to expand...

haha, works both ways surely 

for the record never cried for it in either


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 26, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Just null and void the competition. It's not the same competition as it was before lockdown because it's going to a straight knock out  instead of 2 legs.

Whoever wins,  it will always have an asterisk against it.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree, that and the EL, they’ve changed the format of the Comps, at the PL only had empty stadiums.
There’ll be no kuodos in winning the CL this season.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 26, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I'd like Bournemouth to stay up from a footballing view, but it would be good to see Villa stay up and try and break back into the top half next season and stay there.
		
Click to expand...

I agree Bournemouth play some really nice stuff, but their finishing has been woefull.


----------



## fundy (Jul 26, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I agree Bournemouth play some really nice stuff, but their finishing has been woefull.
		
Click to expand...

theyve also been one of the hardest hit by Covid19 missing several players who are out of contract this summer since resuming


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 26, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I'd like Bournemouth to stay up from a footballing view, but it would be good to see Villa stay up and try and break back into the top half next season and stay there.
		
Click to expand...

Happy for us to lose today if it means Watford go down.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			theyve also been one of the hardest hit by Covid19 missing several players who are out of contract this summer since resuming
		
Click to expand...

Yes that’s a good reason 
But Covid dosnt make you miss the target from 6 yds like some of the players have done.
They have played some really good football and lost or drawn games they really should have won.
I hope they stay up as they should be well above the fight.
But the table dosnt lie.!


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jul 26, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Totally agree, that and the EL, they’ve changed the format of the Comps, *at the PL only had empty stadiums*.
There’ll be no kuodos in winning the CL this season.
		
Click to expand...

Plus 2 additional subs and drinks breaks.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			haha, works both ways surely 

for the record never cried for it in either
		
Click to expand...

No I dont think it does. The only changes to  PL games was drinks breaks and  extra subs which all clubs agreed on a health and safety basis. 

If the games were played in neutral venues I'd agree as it takes home advantage away for some of the other clubs, ie those with smaller pitches etc

The CL has become a  complete different competition to the one  prior to lock down, a single game knockout on neutral a venue. 

Add in the new quarantine rules from spain and the potential spike in numbers it makes sense to null and void it .

Btw I know you didnt cry for it, I've just checked my list 😉


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 26, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Plus 2 additional subs and drinks breaks.
		
Click to expand...

They changed the rules of Golf this year.
So should all the winners have asterisk next to their names?
You can only play by the rules set by the ruling bodies.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 26, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I agree Bournemouth play some really nice stuff, but their finishing has been woefull.
		
Click to expand...

They lost quite a few 1st team players through injury, and they havent got the biggest of squads anyway.


----------



## Wolf (Jul 26, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			That's the arsenal way now isn't it?
		
Click to expand...

Did you want a glass to go with that bitter 😂

The Arsenal way is currently play average football with an average squad, a bit like West Ham actually, but at least we have a cup final to look forward 😉


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 26, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			They lost quite a few 1st team players through injury, and they havent got the biggest of squads anyway.
		
Click to expand...

Yes get that.
But I still think they played well enough to win more games if their finishing was better.
Not really critical of them just my opinion that the strikers were a bit off form after returning.
I hope they survive.


----------



## pendodave (Jul 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			Not sure the big cities having multiple sides is good for the game at all, just centralises it into a fewer locations.

Surely having a more diverse set of locations is better for the game (as well as the other cities/towns) that have a club in the premier league?
		
Click to expand...

I think the west mids is a large enough geographical area to support a couple of prem teams. I cant see the three of them still being there this time next year.
For balance, it would also be good if either derby or forest could get their act together. Seems unlikely though.
My problem with Bournemouth is more to do with having had to endure watching them than their location.


----------



## fundy (Jul 26, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes that’s a good reason
But Covid dosnt make you miss the target from 6 yds like some of the players have done.
They have played some really good football and lost or drawn games they really should have won.
I hope they stay up as they should be well above the fight.
But the table dosnt lie.!
		
Click to expand...


Maybe if they were able to pick the likes of Ryan Fraser they would have done, small squad and losing some of your best players due to the pandemic totally out of their control, whilst the likes of Villa have got McGinn back who was due to be out for the season

PS the table does lie, guess youre not an xG fan lol


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			Maybe if they were able to pick the likes of Ryan Fraser they would have done, small squad and losing some of your best players due to the pandemic totally out of their control, whilst the likes of Villa have got McGinn back who was due to be out for the season

PS the table does lie, guess youre not an xG fan lol
		
Click to expand...

I played CB in the day.
There is a certain amount of pressure build up when you see your strikers miss chance after chance.
You know one mistake and your beaten.
I think they have played well enough without the first choice players to stay up .
But you can’t survive if you don’t take the chances.
All teams do this I know.
But I have enjoyed watching Bournemouth’s football but ultimately it might not be good enough due to outside factors as you say .
That would be a shame as they do play nice footy.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jul 26, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			No I dont think it does. The only changes to  PL games was drinks breaks and  extra subs which all clubs *agreed on a health and safety basis.*

If the games were played in neutral venues I'd agree as it takes home advantage away for some of the other clubs, ie those with smaller pitches etc

The CL has become a  complete different competition to the one  prior to lock down, a single game knockout on neutral a venue.

Add in the new quarantine rules from spain and the potential spike in numbers it makes sense to null and void it.
		
Click to expand...




clubchamp98 said:



			They changed the rules of Golf this year.
*So should all the winners have asterisk next to their names?*
You can only play by the rules set by the ruling bodies.
		
Click to expand...

If the nature of the competition is fundamentally different due to the change of rules then yes IMO there should be an asterisk after the name of the winners. So the winner of the CL this year should have an asterisk because switching to straight knock out rather than two legs is a fundamental change in the competition. 

With regards to Stu's point about agreeing the changes due to health and safety, surely the same could be said of the changes to the CL. For health and safety reasons the clubs have agreed to switch to a single knock out game being played at neutral venues in Portugal. 

The potential spike in numbers also doesn't add up as an argument. There are 900 new cases reported in Spain. The PL restarted on 17th June and on that date the UK had 1346 new cases. On 28th May when the decision to restart the PL was made there were 1887 new cases.

Just love the fact that Liverpool fans are now thinking it's a good idea to make the CL null and void when they were so vocal about the PL not being made null and void. And for the record, the only time I suggested that the PL should be voided was in jest because my brother is a Liverpool fan.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 26, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			If the nature of the competition is fundamentally different due to the change of rules then yes IMO there should be an asterisk after the name of the winners. So the winner of the CL this year should have an asterisk because switching to straight knock out rather than two legs is a fundamental change in the competition.

With regards to Stu's point about agreeing the changes due to health and safety, surely the same could be said of the changes to the CL. For health and safety reasons the clubs have agreed to switch to a single knock out game being played at neutral venues in Portugal.

The potential spike in numbers also doesn't add up as an argument. There are 900 new cases reported in Spain. The PL restarted on 17th June and on that date the UK had 1346 new cases. On 28th May when the decision to restart the PL was made there were 1887 new cases.

Just love the fact that Liverpool fans are now thinking it's a good idea to make the CL null and void when they were so vocal about the PL not being made null and void. And for the record, the only time I suggested that the PL should be voided was in jest because my brother is a Liverpool fan.
		
Click to expand...

As a Liverpool fan I don’t think it should be voided.
But!
It was always a knock out years ago!
Only the Champions were in it.
It should revert to that imo. In the future.
I said so last year when City were champs by the way.
It’s not about H&S it’s about money just like the PL.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jul 26, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			As a Liverpool fan I don’t think it should be voided.
But!
It was always a knock out years ago!
Only the Champions were in it.
It should revert to that imo. In the future.
I said so last year when City were champs by the way.
It’s not about H&S it’s about money just like the PL.
		
Click to expand...

Apologies, I should have put the word "some" in the sentence about Liverpool fans. And of course it's about money and not H&S. I was just responding to Stu's comment about clubs agreeing changes due to health and safety. 

I would also agree with your point about champions only and a knockout competition but again the changes have been made because of money and making sure the big teams get the best chance of progressing. I can't imagine that UEFA would be too happy if the first few rounds of draws threw up Barcelona v Juventus, Real Madrid v Bayern Munich etc and saw many of the big teams getting eliminated. Can't risk letting the smaller teams make too much money by progressing through the competition thanks to a series of "easy" draws. Two or three years of Barcelona and Juventus going out in the first round and Shakthar Donetsk or Apoel Nicosia getting through to a quarter or semi final would upset the apple cart.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 26, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			If the nature of the competition is fundamentally different due to the change of rules then yes IMO there should be an asterisk after the name of the winners. So the winner of the CL this year should have an asterisk because switching to straight knock out rather than two legs is a fundamental change in the competition.

With regards to Stu's point about agreeing the changes due to health and safety, _surely the same could be said of the changes to the CL_. For health and safety reasons the clubs have agreed to switch to a single knock out game being played at neutral venues in Portugal.

The potential spike in numbers also doesn't add up as an argument. There are 900 new cases reported in Spain. The PL restarted on 17th June and on that date the UK had 1346 new cases. On 28th May when the decision to restart the PL was made there were 1887 new cases.

*Just love the fact that Liverpool fans are now thinking it's a good idea to make the CL null and void when they were so vocal about the PL not being made null and void. *And for the record, the only time I suggested that the PL should be voided was in jest because my brother is a Liverpool fan.
		
Click to expand...

_No it cant. The actual competition has changed completely. Losing the 2nd leg is a massive change to the competition_

*That's all part of the fun* 😁

Just checked the list and you're on it....

😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 26, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Apologies, I should have put the word "some" in the sentence about Liverpool fans. And of course it's about money and not H&S. I was just responding to Stu's comment about clubs agreeing changes due to health and safety.

I would also agree with your point about champions only and a knockout competition but again the changes have been made because of money and making sure the big teams get the best chance of progressing. I can't imagine that UEFA would be too happy if the first few rounds of draws threw up Barcelona v Juventus, Real Madrid v Bayern Munich etc and saw many of the big teams getting eliminated. Can't risk letting the smaller teams make too much money by progressing through the competition thanks to a series of "easy" draws. Two or three years of Barcelona and Juventus going out in the first round and Shakthar Donetsk or Apoel Nicosia getting through to a quarter or semi final would upset the apple cart.
		
Click to expand...

Who wants to see FC Copenhagen v  Cluj in the semi's?? BT and co arent paying £1bn for those games.

Unfortunately the CL is a european super league and that's it.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 26, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



_No it cant. The actual competition has changed completely. Losing the 2nd leg is a massive change to the competition_

*That's all part of the fun* 😁
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree, if it works this year it should go back to being straight knockout over 2 legs and none of this mini league rubbish.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 26, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Totally agree, if it works this year it should go back to being straight knockout over 2 legs and none of this mini league rubbish.

Click to expand...

Jesus are you agreeing with me on purpose?? That's 4 times in as many posts😁😁😁


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 26, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Jesus are you agreeing with me on purpose?? That's 4 times in as many posts😁😁😁
		
Click to expand...

No mate, even a broken clock is right twice a day.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 26, 2020)

3offTheTee said:



			Will Real Madrid have to self isolate for 14 days when they come to Man. city next mont.

Tashy will be dancing in the streets. Hope yer well mi man!
		
Click to expand...

Alls kinda good thanks 3OTT. Been another interesting day in the Tash household.


----------



## Slime (Jul 26, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Alls kinda good thanks 3OTT. Been another interesting day in the Tash household.
		
Click to expand...

Hi Tashy, I trust you are well. 
United & Leicester for top four, Aston Villa to avoid the drop.
I'd like that.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 26, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Apologies, I should have put the word "some" in the sentence about Liverpool fans. And of course it's about money and not H&S. I was just responding to Stu's comment about clubs agreeing changes due to health and safety.

I would also agree with your point about champions only and a knockout competition but again the changes have been made because of money and making sure the big teams get the best chance of progressing. I can't imagine that UEFA would be too happy if the first few rounds of draws threw up Barcelona v Juventus, Real Madrid v Bayern Munich etc and saw many of the big teams getting eliminated. Can't risk letting the smaller teams make too much money by progressing through the competition thanks to a series of "easy" draws. Two or three years of Barcelona and Juventus going out in the first round and Shakthar Donetsk or Apoel Nicosia getting through to a quarter or semi final would upset the apple cart.
		
Click to expand...

Yes see that but it’s why some teams don’t try to hard in the FA cup and league cup.
In my humble opinion of course.


----------



## Piece (Jul 26, 2020)

Bye bye this thread. It’s been a good five years. May see you again some day soon!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 26, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Alls kinda good thanks 3OTT. Been another interesting day in the Tash household.
		
Click to expand...

Hello Tash hope your ok.
You got used to being runners up yet?


----------



## fundy (Jul 26, 2020)

Piece said:



			Bye bye this thread. It’s been a good five years. May see you again some day soon!
		
Click to expand...


Pearson sacking (esp the timing of it) just looks worse and worse


----------



## fundy (Jul 26, 2020)

Golden boot just got interesting


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			Golden boot just got interesting
		
Click to expand...

I think that may be an oxymoron 😁.

Good to end the season on a high though. It's like having a good score on the 18th, draws you back for more.


----------



## fundy (Jul 26, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think that may be an oxymoron 😁.

Good to end the season on a high though. It's like having a good score on the 18th, draws you back for more.
		
Click to expand...

weve not had much to cheer


----------



## fundy (Jul 26, 2020)

as i say that the useless clown gives away penalty number 5 for the season......


----------



## Slime (Jul 26, 2020)

David Luiz, the clown that just keeps on giving.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 26, 2020)

I reckon Carlo Ancelotti is on this forum,  not 100% sure under what name yet 🤔. Carlo, if you are reading this, Marco Silva lost his job because he obsessively insisted on playing out from the back, no matter what. Please don't let that happen again. 

Another thing, we look dangerous when we play with zip and tempo. We are bog ordinary when we play sideways and at snails pace. Pick up the pace Carlo.

Other than that Carlo, keep it up 👍. PS, happy to host you for a round if you are in the area.


----------



## Slime (Jul 26, 2020)

Has to be a penalty!


----------



## Slime (Jul 26, 2020)




----------



## AmandaJR (Jul 26, 2020)

David Silva


----------



## Slime (Jul 26, 2020)

Bruno Fernandes.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jul 26, 2020)

Kevin De Bruyne - Wouldn't swap him for anyone...including Henderson


----------



## Slime (Jul 26, 2020)

That'll do it!
Messi Lingard.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM !!


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 26, 2020)

Get the lawyers out Bournemouth.. Hawkeye cost them the premier League


----------



## PieMan (Jul 26, 2020)

Top 4 and an FA Cup final to come......all achieved with a transfer embargo and our best player leaving - think I can recall saying at the start that Chelsea would be ok this season 🤔😉😂😂


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 26, 2020)

Slime said:



			Bruno Fernandes. 

Click to expand...

Not done too bad to say he wasn’t going to be any good because other teams didn’t go in for him 😂😂😂


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 26, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287432080939515908
Ouch.


----------



## paddyc (Jul 26, 2020)

Unlucky Watford  didn't  deserve  to lose today  Arsenal defence  absolutely  shocking. you have to question  the sacking of Pearson  though, wtf were they thinking.


----------



## Slime (Jul 26, 2020)

So pleased for Grealish.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 26, 2020)

Piece said:



			Bye bye this thread. It’s been a good five years. May see you again some day soon!
		
Click to expand...

You’re the ONLY reason I’m disappointed Watford have gone down, always honest in your assessments of games, regardless who was playing, but especially honest on your own team.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jul 26, 2020)

Slime said:



			So pleased for Grealish.
		
Click to expand...

Is there sarcasm in there? He's the only reason I wanted Villa to go down


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 26, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287437119875690497
 Sad times. Absolute legend.


----------



## Jensen (Jul 26, 2020)

MIND THE GAP, MIND THE GAP

Another season where St Totteringham has been cancelled.
Also no asterisk needed.
🤣🤣


----------



## davemc1 (Jul 26, 2020)

All these people made up how their seasons gone? We should all agree to have next season go the same way 👍🏻

😆


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 26, 2020)

Dan2501 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287437119875690497
 Sad times. Absolute legend.
		
Click to expand...

What a fabulous signing he has been. I'm sure he will be brought back as guest of honour for a match when the fans are allowed back in. He deserves a proper send off.

I'm slightly surprised he hasn't gone elsewhere to play another season or two. Presumably his body is telling him it is time.


----------



## Slime (Jul 26, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Is there sarcasm in there? He's the only reason I wanted Villa to go down 

Click to expand...

Not at all. A good player who's Villa through and through.


----------



## Piece (Jul 26, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You’re the ONLY reason I’m disappointed Watford have gone down, always honest in your assessments of games, regardless who was playing, but especially honest on your own team.

Click to expand...

Thank you sir. Hope to be back at the end of the next season.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 26, 2020)

Ederson must be some keeper to get the golden gloves with that defence in front of him.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jul 26, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Ederson must be some keeper to get the golden gloves with that defence in front of him.
		
Click to expand...

Goals against amazingly good considering...can only be him!


----------



## fundy (Jul 26, 2020)

that or having the ball 2/3rds of the game


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 26, 2020)

A very long and weird season comes to an end 

I thought Watford were gone for a while but then they looked set to stay.. whirlwind for sure 

Feel for bouremouth robbed by Hawkeye


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 26, 2020)

I also feel for Bournemouth and their VAR luck and for Howe who has done a great job over a number of years. I wonder whether he'll decide to move on and try his luck at another club.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			that or having the ball 2/3rds of the game 

Click to expand...

Best keeper in league 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Jensen (Jul 26, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I also feel for Bournemouth and their VAR luck and for Howe who has done a great job over a number of years. I wonder whether he'll decide to move on and try his luck at another club.
		
Click to expand...

Let's hope Daniel Levy is thinking the same


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 26, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Hello Tash hope your ok.
You got used to being runners up yet?

Click to expand...

its the runners up asterisk am having difficulty with 😁, hope alls well CC me man


----------



## Fish (Jul 26, 2020)

In Frank we trust 💙


----------



## Slime (Jul 26, 2020)

In Ole we trust. 💙


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 26, 2020)

Fish said:



			In Frank we trust 💙
		
Click to expand...

Our manager is awful and we finished above you. Think about that.


----------



## fundy (Jul 26, 2020)

United fans celebrating finishing behind liverpool and man city
Chelsea fans celebrating finishing 4th
Spurs fans celebrating their worst points total in 10 years
Southampton fans celebrating being kings of the south coast

Geez some of you need to take the tints off lol

BTW weve had a horror horror season, even if we get lucky at Wembley, im just jealous


----------



## fundy (Jul 26, 2020)

scrap that just seen the celebrations from inside the Villa dressing room, crack on everyone


----------



## Fish (Jul 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			United fans celebrating finishing behind liverpool and man city
Chelsea fans celebrating finishing 4th
Spurs fans celebrating their worst points total in 10 years
Southampton fans celebrating being kings of the south coast

Geez some of you need to take the tints off lol

BTW weve had a horror horror season, even if we get lucky at Wembley, im just jealous 

Click to expand...

Of course we are happy with 4th, missing out on 3rd only by goal difference, because unlike all the other clubs, we had massive hurdles put up and lost our top player, so it is an achievement we should be satisfied with and will build from.


----------



## fundy (Jul 26, 2020)

Fish said:



			Of course we are happy with 4th, missing out on 3rd only by goal difference, because unlike all the other clubs, we had massive hurdles put up and lost our top player, so it is an achievement we should be satisfied with and will build from.
		
Click to expand...

the hurdles were put in place by your own misconduct and you chose to sell Hazard lol. Youll be fine when spend 300m again this summer


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jul 26, 2020)

Does anyone know who won Watford's Manager of the Season award.


----------



## fundy (Jul 26, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Does anyone know who won Watford's Manager of the Season award. 

Click to expand...

think its a raffle


----------



## Fish (Jul 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			the hurdles were put in place by your own misconduct and you chose to sell Hazard lol.
		
Click to expand...

Totally irrelevant, the point was, Frank was faced with hurdles not of his making, everyone questioned his appointment, the kids weren’t good enough, we’d implode without Hazard etc etc, and yet............


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jul 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			think its a raffle 

Click to expand...

What's the definition of an optimist?

The new Watford manager buying himself a house in the area rather than renting.


----------



## fundy (Jul 26, 2020)

Fish said:



			Totally irrelevant, the point was, Frank was faced with hurdles not of his making, everyone questioned his appointment, the kids weren’t good enough, we’d implode without Hazard etc etc, and yet............
		
Click to expand...


congrats on finishing 4th in the worst prem ever bar the top 2  ill send you a trophy over


----------



## fundy (Jul 26, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			What's the definition of an optimist?

The new Watford manager buying himself a house in the area rather than renting. 

Click to expand...


renting rather than a hotel seems brave lol


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 26, 2020)

Fish said:



			Totally irrelevant, the point was, Frank was faced with hurdles not of his making, everyone questioned his appointment, the kids weren’t good enough, we’d implode without Hazard etc etc, and yet............
		
Click to expand...

Been very impressed with cheslea , working with what they have .. Frank been fantastic 

Think Tammy might be off? Post lockdown he bearly played and you have the new guy

Could win the cup aswell which would be amazin


----------



## fundy (Jul 26, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Been very impressed with cheslea , working with what they have .. Frank been fantastic

Think Tammy might be off? Post lockdown he bearly played and you have the new guy

Could win the cup aswell which would be amazin
		
Click to expand...

could? absolute kick in surely for a top 4 side against mid table fodder


----------



## fundy (Jul 26, 2020)

theres an echo in here


----------



## PaulS (Jul 26, 2020)

Teams in 3rd and 4th closer points wise to Bournemouth than they are to the winners , celebrating mediocrity- something that wouldn’t expect from Chelsea and Man Utd but that’s the way of the land at the moment and for the foreseeable future.


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 26, 2020)

PaulS said:



			Teams in 3rd and 4th closer points wise to Bournemouth than they are to the winners , celebrating mediocrity- something that wouldn’t expect from Chelsea and Man Utd but that’s the way of the land at the moment and for the foreseeable future.
		
Click to expand...

Man united have impressed me since lockdown. Bruno could be perfect fit for them. 

Could see them pushing city and Liverpool next season 

The league will be very competitive next season


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jul 26, 2020)

fundy said:



			theres an echo in here 

Click to expand...

There was but I deleted the repeated post. The internet in my apartment is rubbish. Don't know why it's deciding to post things twice.


----------



## PaulS (Jul 26, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Man united have impressed me since lockdown. Bruno could be perfect fit for them.

Could see them pushing city and Liverpool next season

The league will be very competitive next season
		
Click to expand...

Just like Chelsea they have a poor back line , and it’s the defence that wins titles for teams.

Man Utd got a nice friendly run after lockdown. 

Many teams in the past have had good attacks but call short because they can’t defend. 

I expect the top four to be the same teams with Liverpool and City having a clear gap behind them


----------



## Slime (Jul 26, 2020)

PaulS said:



*Just like Chelsea they, (Man Utd), have a poor back line *, and it’s the defence that wins titles for teams.

Man Utd got a nice friendly run after lockdown.

Many teams in the past have had good attacks but call short because they can’t defend.

I expect the top four to be the same teams with Liverpool and City having a clear gap behind them
		
Click to expand...

Err, wrong .......................... just ridiculously wrong. 

City conceded 1 fewer than us, Liverpool conceded 3 fewer than us. Every other team conceded more!
Chelsea conceded 18 more than United. 
How can you possibly start to justify that hilarious suggestion?


----------



## Billysboots (Jul 26, 2020)

PaulS said:



			Just like Chelsea they have a poor back line , and it’s the defence that wins titles for teams.

Man Utd got a nice friendly run after lockdown.

Many teams in the past have had good attacks but call short because they can’t defend.

I expect the top four to be the same teams with Liverpool and City having a clear gap behind them
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree. United have a very average defence, Wan Bissaka aside. They need a top quality centre half with some pace to play alongside Maguire, and a left back. I like Shaw, but he won’t manage an entire season injury free. And if the opportunity comes up to replace de Gea they need to seriously look at it - his confidence has been shot for a long, long time.

They just about have a first eleven to give anyone a run for their money, but still lack strength in depth. The heavy reliance on Fernandes is already showing as he looks knackered. He can’t be expected to carry them every week.

So, not as far off as most thought they were, but still short of challenging the top two. Three signings minimum needed.


----------



## Billysboots (Jul 26, 2020)

Slime said:



			Err, wrong .......................... just ridiculously wrong. 

City conceded 1 fewer than us, Liverpool conceded 3 fewer than us. Every other team conceded more!
Chelsea conceded 18 more than United.
How can you possibly start to justify that hilarious suggestion?
		
Click to expand...

I’m a life long United fan and even I can see the defensive cracks. Our defending at set pieces is sending me grey.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 26, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			If the nature of the competition is fundamentally different due to the change of rules then yes IMO there should be an asterisk after the name of the winners. So the winner of the CL this year should have an asterisk because switching to straight knock out rather than two legs is a fundamental change in the competition.

With regards to Stu's point about agreeing the changes due to health and safety, surely the same could be said of the changes to the CL. For health and safety reasons the clubs have agreed to switch to a single knock out game being played at neutral venues in Portugal.

The potential spike in numbers also doesn't add up as an argument. There are 900 new cases reported in Spain. The PL restarted on 17th June and on that date the UK had 1346 new cases. On 28th May when the decision to restart the PL was made there were 1887 new cases.

Just love the fact that Liverpool fans are now thinking it's a good idea to make the CL null and void when they were so vocal about the PL not being made null and void. And for the record, the only time I suggested that the PL should be voided was in jest because my brother is a Liverpool fan.
		
Click to expand...

I think hes taking the piss, lad.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 26, 2020)

Must admit I'm a bit glad Bournemouth have gone down. Don't dislike them or anything but it bugs me how Eddie Howe gets massively overrated just because he's English. Yeah he did well to keep them up this long, and they play nice counter-attacking football, but he's had 5 years to put a decent defence together and failed miserably. They've conceded 67, 67, 61, 70 & now (ironically the least) 65 goals in their Prem seasons. That is just woeful and relegation long overdue. Meanwhile we've seen Howe being linked to jobs like Arsenal and Spurs in that time? No chance.

Bit of a shame Watford went, as they are my local team, but they've lost everybody's sympathy with their constant manager changing. I don't mind Villa staying up though, just like I've said about Leeds, I see Villa as a classic Premier League team, certainly a bigger club than Bournemouth or Watford so they can stick around for another year.


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 26, 2020)

Happy with the season but a bit frustrated as it could've been better. Few woeful refereeing decisions including one today and at times just not having enough confidence, we could've made that top 4 and were looking bang at it when football returned. 
Full tilt to try to win the Europa now but can't see it with the draw we have.


----------



## Slime (Jul 26, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Absolutely agree. *United have a very average defence*, Wan Bissaka aside. They need a top quality centre half with some pace to play alongside Maguire, and a left back. I like Shaw, but he won’t manage an entire season injury free. And if the opportunity comes up to replace de Gea they need to seriously look at it - his confidence has been shot for a long, long time.

They just about have a first eleven to give anyone a run for their money, but still lack strength in depth. The heavy reliance on Fernandes is already showing as he looks knackered. He can’t be expected to carry them every week.

So, not as far off as most thought they were, but still short of challenging the top two. Three signings minimum needed.
		
Click to expand...

Considering United had virtually no midfield for the first half of the season and we conceded fewer goals than 17 of the other 19 teams, I'd say our defence is well above average.
38 games worth of statistics would tend to back me up.
I think, maybe, Stu would too.


----------



## Fish (Jul 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			congrats on finishing 4th in the worst prem ever bar the top 2  ill send you a trophy over 

Click to expand...

I’d keep it if I was you, it’s the closest any Gooner will get to one, and yous won’t need to ensure your passports are up to date either 😜


----------



## PaulS (Jul 27, 2020)

Slime said:



			Err, wrong .......................... just ridiculously wrong. 

City conceded 1 fewer than us, Liverpool conceded 3 fewer than us. Every other team conceded more!
Chelsea conceded 18 more than United.
How can you possibly start to justify that hilarious suggestion?
		
Click to expand...

I’m guessing you must be a Man Utd fan because only someone wearing huge red tinted glasses would even suggest that their backline is good enough 

The GK makes monumental mistakes and is close to being one of the worst in the league ( same at Chelsea ) 

The left back isn’t good enough and doesn’t stay fit enough 

Maguire is hugely overrated- headless chicken who can’t pass water 
The Swedish bloke just isn’t quick enough , strong enough or commanding enough to be in a backline to win the title - their best CB is out on loan

The right back is very good defensively - Bambi on ice going forward 

Chelsea’s backline even worse 

If neither team purchases any defenders then they won’t challenge for the title. Liverpool won the title because of their backline being head and shoulders above any other team in the league.


----------



## Slime (Jul 27, 2020)

PaulS said:



			I’m guessing you must be a Man Utd fan because only someone wearing huge red tinted glasses would even suggest that their backline is good enough

The GK makes monumental mistakes and is close to being one of the worst in the league ( same at Chelsea )

The left back isn’t good enough and doesn’t stay fit enough

Maguire is hugely overrated- headless chicken who can’t pass water
The Swedish bloke just isn’t quick enough , strong enough or commanding enough to be in a backline to win the title - their best CB is out on loan

The right back is very good defensively - Bambi on ice going forward

Chelsea’s backline even worse

If neither team purchases any defenders then they won’t challenge for the title. Liverpool won the title because of their backline being head and shoulders above any other team in the league.
		
Click to expand...


The third best defence in the premier league ............................ and declared as 'poor' and the 'just like Chelsea's'.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2020)

PaulS said:



			I’m guessing you must be a Man Utd fan because only someone wearing huge red tinted glasses would even suggest that their backline is good enough

The GK makes monumental mistakes and is close to being one of the worst in the league ( same at Chelsea )

The left back isn’t good enough and doesn’t stay fit enough

Maguire is hugely overrated- headless chicken who can’t pass water
The Swedish bloke just isn’t quick enough , strong enough or commanding enough to be in a backline to win the title - their best CB is out on loan

The right back is very good defensively - Bambi on ice going forward

Chelsea’s backline even worse

If neither team purchases any defenders then they won’t challenge for the title. Liverpool won the title because of their backline being head and shoulders above any other team in the league.
		
Click to expand...

I agree that Yerniteds back 4 isnt as good as others and certainly not the best in te PL like Slime once famously  posted 😂

Throw stats around as much as you like, I've watched Yernited enough this season to see Maguire is hugely overrated and will certainly get exposed in the coming seasons. He's not great on the ball, his positioning is poor and its proved by Way too many last min tackles.

Liverpool won the league because all over the pitch they were the best. Most consistent  team by far and they had Lord Jordan Brian Henderson FWPOTY 😉


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2020)

Slime said:



			Considering United had virtually no midfield for the first half of the season and we conceded fewer goals than 17 of the other 19 teams, I'd say our defence is well above average.
38 games worth of statistics would tend to back me up.
*I think, maybe, Stu would too*. 

Click to expand...

Nope. I like stats to back my opinion up but I cant back you up on this. 😁

I think Yernited need an improvement on Shaw,Lindelof and Maguire if they're to  get back to anywhere near challenging for titles.


----------



## PaulS (Jul 27, 2020)

Slime said:



			The third best defence in the premier league ............................ and declared as 'poor' and the 'just like Chelsea's'.







Click to expand...


Why did Utd lose so many games this season and finish so far behind ? 

You can keep looking at stats if you wish but they clearly don’t show the whole story do they. 


Third Best Defence and self claimed best front line yet 33 points behind 🤥


----------



## Wolf (Jul 27, 2020)

Let's look at this honestly the stats for utd mask an average back line. Lindeloff & Shaw need replacing and Slab head is massively overrated, De Gea needs moving on and replacing with Henderson sharpish. You don't finish closer to the bottom 3 in points than the winners by having a good defence.

But let's all be honest nothing is as shite as our defensive line up. We have the clown giving penalties away like its a free prize draw, then we have Kolasinac, mustafi and the rest, nothing is as bad as our defence. I'd even take the whole Utd back line right now, you can keep De Gea though 😂


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 27, 2020)

Must admit I am surprised that United only conceded 36 goals. I would have also said their defence isn't quite good enough. Maybe it's the standard of goals we've seen them concede, often caused by individual errors. Their form since lockdown has obviously improved the stats, as they've been bossing games in attack in order to not concede as many I guess. Five clean sheets post-lockdown. Obviously fair play for that improvement, but De Gea looks past it, and I still think they should be looking to sign a good partner for Maguire. Bailly just always seems to be injured, Lindelof has improved but I don't think he's top class. You'd want him more as your first back-up option.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2020)

Where's Sawtooth these days?? Has he gone into hiding after predicting liverpool would only get 70pts this season? 🤭🤭😁

Comeback Sawtooth you've been missed.....


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Where's Sawtooth these days?? Has he gone into hiding after predicting liverpool would only get 70pts this season? 🤭🤭😁

Comeback Sawtooth you've been missed.....
		
Click to expand...

Probably having a sabbatical like a lot of the Chelsea fans on here.

It seems in inverse proportion to the new reds we've gained on here these last few months........

#SingWhenYourWinning


----------



## Slime (Jul 27, 2020)

PaulS said:



			Why did Utd lose so many games this season and finish so far behind ?

You can keep looking at stats if you wish but they clearly don’t show the whole story do they.


Third Best Defence and self claimed best front line yet 33 points behind 🤥
		
Click to expand...

As I said in an earlier post, we had an incredibly weak midfield for half the season.
The defence were left exposed and the forwards were feeding off scraps.
If the defence is that shit, what does that say for the 17 teams that conceded more goals?
Were there any decent defences this season?
The best defence out there only conceded three fewer than United! That's 0.078 goals per game.
Sheesh.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 27, 2020)

It must be me, but I do think Utd have the best defence and squad. They should stay exactly as they are for next season


----------



## Slime (Jul 27, 2020)

PaulS said:



*Why did Utd lose so many games this season* and finish so far behind ?

You can keep looking at stats if you wish but they clearly don’t show the whole story do they.


Third Best Defence and self claimed best front line yet 33 points behind 🤥
		
Click to expand...

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. You really are no bargain, are you.
They lost so many games?
They lost just eight games.
Actually it was fewer than anyone except Liverpool.

I'd stop digging now, you're making yourself look a bit foolish.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 27, 2020)

Luke Shaw's massively under-rated I think. Post-lockdown he's been excellent and no co-incidence that after his injury United's performances started to drop in quality. He offers so much more than Williams down the left, different league defensively and much more dynamic going forward. I think he's been excellent, the only worry will be his injury proneness but when he's fit he's more than good enough.


----------



## PaulS (Jul 27, 2020)

Slime said:



			Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. You really are no bargain, are you.
They lost so many games?
They lost just eight games.
Actually it was fewer than anyone except Liverpool.

I'd stop digging now, you're making yourself look a bit foolish.
		
Click to expand...


I’m not sure why I’m looking foolish when it seems the opinion is shared by many including Man Utd fans - maybe one someone has a lone view on things they are looking at it through some very biased eyes.

You did at one stage say the back line was the best in the league - laughable 

The views from others seems consistent 

De Gea is constantly making mistakes 

Maguire is very much overrated 

Shaw, Lindelof and Bailley not good enough with only Bissaka showing promise 

I’m sure Liverpool and City fans will be more than happy if Utd and Chelsea keep buying attacking playing when the back line is clearly the weak link ( well to knowledgeable football fans it is ) 

It’s like reading other social media sites - you would think Utd won the lot , well they did win the “League Title after Lockdown Trophy” 😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 27, 2020)

Goals conceded alone really doesn’t prove a thing. Whilst utd May have conceded just 3 less than Liverpool, they did so playing a style of football that at times was significantly more risk averse than city or Liverpool. if they went as hung ho, hoping to score close too 100 goals they would open themselves upto the chance of conceding many more imo.

It’s also laughable that a few months ago everyone was saying Liverpool were going to win the “weakest pl ever” now all of a sudden Chelsea and utd fans want credit for their teams getting Cl with the parltry points tally’s they’ve got.


----------



## Slime (Jul 27, 2020)

PaulS said:



*I’m not sure why I’m looking foolish when it seems the opinion is shared by many including Man Utd fans* - maybe one someone has a lone view on things they are looking at it through some very biased eyes.

*You did at one stage say the back line was the best in the league* - laughable

The views from others seems consistent

De Gea is constantly making mistakes

Maguire is very much overrated

Shaw, Lindelof and Bailley not good enough with only Bissaka showing promise

I’m sure Liverpool and City fans will be more than happy if Utd and Chelsea keep buying attacking playing when the back line is clearly the weak link ( well to knowledgeable football fans it is )

It’s like reading other social media sites - you would think Utd won the lot , well they did win the “League Title after Lockdown Trophy” 😂😂😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

Yup, I did say words to that effect, and guess what ............................. I was wrong, but clearly able to admit it.

I've not heard anyone say United's defence was as poor as Chelsea's, as you stated.
Is United's defence really as poor as Chelsea's ............................................................. anyone?
I think it was the "Why did Utd lose* so many *games this season" comment that makes you look so foolish.
I'm guessing you're not going to expand on this statement.

De Gea is making mistakes directly leading to goals, no argument there, but he's also making a bunch of great saves, but I guess that's his job.
Maguire has made the fourth highest number of headed clearances this season, there are not many I'd swap him for.
Shaw is simply superb ......................... when fit.
Lindelof is too slow and will probably be replaced.
Bailly has always been an error waiting to happen.
Wan Bissaka is, defensively, the best right back in the Premier League.

Out of interest, which is your team, if you have one?


----------



## PaulS (Jul 27, 2020)

Slime said:



			Yup, I did say words to that effect, and guess what ............................. I was wrong, but clearly able to admit it.

I've not heard anyone say United's defence was as poor as Chelsea's, as you stated.
Is United's defence really as poor as Chelsea's ............................................................. anyone?
I think it was the "Why did Utd lose* so many *games this season" comment that makes you look so foolish.
I'm guessing you're not going to expand on this statement.

De Gea is making mistakes directly leading to goals, no argument there, but he's also making a bunch of great saves, but I guess that's his job.
Maguire has made the fourth highest number of headed clearances this season, there are not many I'd swap him for.
Shaw is simply superb ......................... when fit.
Lindelof is too slow and will probably be replaced.
Bailly has always been an error waiting to happen.
Wan Bissaka is, defensively, the best right back in the Premier League.

Out of interest, which is your team, if you have one?
		
Click to expand...


If De Gea is making so many great saves then why when the guys in front are so good ? 

Either he makes minimal saves and has lots of errors or he is under too much pressure because of the player in front ? 

So Maguire can head the ball - many CB’s can head it , it should be bread and butter to them but he is shocking on the ground and his positional sense is really poor hence why he has to make so many last ditch tackles , or that his second touch seems to be a sliding tackle 

Shaw superb ? Not for me , again positioning is poor , not a great final ball - decent left back but way below the likes of Robertson and Chilwell

As for my team - Bristol City , good old regular Champ team 

Yes I’m confused when a team appears to be so good they end up so many points behind the title winners and closer to relegation zone ?


----------



## Slime (Jul 27, 2020)

PaulS said:



			If De Gea is making so many great saves then why when the guys in front are so good ?

Either he makes minimal saves and has lots of errors or he is under too much pressure because of the player in front ?

So Maguire can head the ball - many CB’s can head it , it should be bread and butter to them but he is shocking on the ground and his positional sense is really poor hence why he has to make so many last ditch tackles , or that his second touch seems to be a sliding tackle

Shaw superb ? Not for me , again positioning is poor , not a great final ball - decent left back but way below the likes of Robertson and Chilwell

As for my team - Bristol City , good old regular Champ team

Yes I’m confused when a team appears to be so good they end up so many points behind the title winners and closer to relegation zone ?
		
Click to expand...

You really are having trouble reading and understanding what I have written.

De Gea has 'made a bunch' of great saves, not 'making so many great saves'.
'Why when the guys in front are so good ?', because we had a shite midfield for half a season, as I said earlier, please keep up.
Maguire making 'so many last ditch tackles', he made, according to the Premier League, exactly no last man tackles. I'm assuming that was what you were alluding to, apologies if not.
Shaw is superb. I didn't say he was the best, but he is superb.
I've not claimed that United were 'so good' this season, but I will claim that they are the third best team this season.
Oh, and you still haven't backed up your "Why did Utd lose* so many *games this season" suggestion.

Your go.


----------



## PaulS (Jul 27, 2020)

Slime said:



			You really are having trouble reading and understanding what I have written.

De Gea has 'made a bunch' of great saves, not 'making so many great saves'.
'Why when the guys in front are so good ?', because we had a shite midfield for half a season, as I said earlier, please keep up.
Maguire making 'so many last ditch tackles', he made, according to the Premier League, exactly no last man tackles. I'm assuming that was what you were alluding to, apologies if not.
Shaw is superb. I didn't say he was the best, but he is superb.
I've not claimed that United were 'so good' this season, but I will claim that they are the third best team this season.
Oh, and you still haven't backed up your "Why did Utd lose* so many *games this season" suggestion.

Your go. 

Click to expand...


The reason why they lost so many games this season is clear 

They aren’t as good as some believe 

The backline isn’t good enough

The midfield is decent when they turn up ( will see when they face tough opposition) , Pogba maybe playing for a move , Fernandes looks outstanding when he stays on his feet 

The front line have outstanding talent - Martial too inconsistent, Rashford injury prone. Greenwood looks to have great potential but again needs testing against the top players 

Man Utd benefitted from the lockdown and then the run after , but still a huge gap to both City and Liverpool suggests there are still significant issues there and they are for mainly in the backline 

Both Utd and Chelsea are what Liverpool were like for many years - some great players but some big gaps that get ignored.

If Utd go into the next season without strengthening the backline then they will just continue to fight for a top 4 spot.


----------



## Slime (Jul 27, 2020)

PaulS said:



			The reason why they lost so many games this season is clear

They aren’t as good as some believe

The backline isn’t good enough

The midfield is decent when they turn up ( will see when they face tough opposition) , Pogba maybe playing for a move , Fernandes looks outstanding when he stays on his feet

The front line have outstanding talent - Martial too inconsistent, Rashford injury prone. Greenwood looks to have great potential but again needs testing against the top players

Man Utd benefitted from the lockdown and then the run after , but still a huge gap to both City and Liverpool suggests there are still significant issues there and they are for mainly in the backline

Both Utd and Chelsea are what Liverpool were like for many years - some great players but some big gaps that get ignored.

If Utd go into the next season without strengthening the backline then they will just continue to fight for a top 4 spot.
		
Click to expand...

Now I know you're on the wind up.
They lost *so many* games this season .................................... 
Fernandes looks outstanding *when he stays on his feet* .........
Rashford *injury prone* ............................................................


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 27, 2020)

The problem both Chelsea and United and to the same extent Arsenal and Spurs face is that City and Liverpool will go out and strengthen their squads anyway and the rest are then playing catch up. Arsenal in particular will need a major rebuild over the next few seasons and you could argue that the same applies to both Chelsea and United and they won't be in a position to compete with the top two for a good few seasons and the PL will remain a two horse race with the odd wild card side punching way above their weight to sometimes keep it interesting


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 27, 2020)

PaulS said:



			The front line have outstanding talent - Martial too inconsistent, *Rashford injury prone*. Greenwood looks to have great potential but again needs testing against the top players
		
Click to expand...

Really? He's missed 7 PL games through injury in 4 seasons and that was this season because of a back injury.


----------



## 4LEX (Jul 27, 2020)

Man Utd scraped into the top four, the last 5 performances of the season were dire. Fernandes turned the season round entirely. He came in and showed up Pogba for the overrated poser he is. Without that signing Man Utd finish below Spurs and Arsenal. The difference is he's got no ego, excellent attitude and makes other players better.

I've no doubt they'll challenge for Top 4 again and probably get it but for a title bid they need a new manager, left back, centre back, right winger and clinical striker. That won't happen so it'll be another season of inconsistent football and results. Which isn't good enough for the money they spend and the size of the club.

City need a new centreback, winger and top class Aguero back up. If he gets injured again or doesn't return the player he was, City don't win the league. Jesus is like Martial, very good but goes missing too often. Almost all of the games City lost this season they ran the game, created chances galore, missed them and got caught out against the run of play.

Liverpool's first eleven is outstanding but they can't sit back and not strengthen. A high class striker is definitely needed and a winger would be a good move.  

Chelsea are actually looking very good for next season with their buys. Werner is such an upgrade on Abraham/Giroud. A top centreback and a new keeper would push them on further.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 27, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Really? He's missed 7 PL games through injury in 4 seasons and that was this season because of a back injury.
		
Click to expand...

Tbf his season was ended with the back injury. Only covid allowed him to play more. 

I'm still not convinced martial or Rashford will ever score more than 20 pl goals a season which or more of a concern than fitness imo


----------



## PaulS (Jul 27, 2020)

Slime said:



			Now I know you're on the wind up.
They lost *so many* games this season .................................... 
Fernandes looks outstanding *when he stays on his feet* .........
Rashford *injury prone* ............................................................

Click to expand...


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....he-worst-dive-of-the-season-20200720.amp.html

Yes Fernandes dives - has done it regularly.

And Wouldn’t Rashford have missed half this season because of a back injury ? 

But as previously said if Man Utd fans think the backline is good enough then other clubs will be happy.

It just seems that you are not able to handle reasonable assessments of Man Utd.


----------



## Piece (Jul 27, 2020)

One big benefit of relegation. I won't have to read some of the tosh written here!


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 27, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbf his season was ended with the back injury. Only covid allowed him to play more.

I'm still not convinced martial or Rashford will ever score more than 20 pl goals a season which or more of a concern than fitness imo
		
Click to expand...

True, but one injury in 4 seasons != injury prone.


----------



## Slime (Jul 27, 2020)

PaulS said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....he-worst-dive-of-the-season-20200720.amp.html

Yes Fernandes dives - has done it regularly.

And Wouldn’t Rashford have missed half this season because of a back injury ?

But as previously said if Man Utd fans think the backline is good enough then other clubs will be happy.

*It just seems that you are not able to handle reasonable assessments of Man Utd.*

Click to expand...

And you don't understand a league table and how it's made up.


----------



## Slime (Jul 27, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			True, but one injury in 4 seasons != injury prone.
		
Click to expand...

I know, it really is that obvious.


----------



## PaulS (Jul 27, 2020)

Slime said:



			And you don't understand a league table and how it's made up.
		
Click to expand...


Don’t understand the league table ? Yep it’s clear - Man Utd 33 points behind the winners and only 32 ahead of relegation zone , what is it that I don’t understand ?

So what do you have to say about the Fernandes dive or just choosing to ignore it. 

Many people on here seem to have the same opinion in regards Man Utd’s backline ? Are they all wrong


----------



## PieMan (Jul 27, 2020)

Slime said:



			' I've not heard anyone say United's defence was as poor as Chelsea's, as you stated.
Is United's defence really as poor as Chelsea's ............................................................. anyone? 




			It was in the FA Cup Semi Final.....😉😂😂

As a Chelsea fan, our defence is currently woeful.

James will be excellent I'm sure, as will Tomori. Zouma looks like a rabbit in the headlights whenever the ball is at his feet.

Rudiger has had an off season; Azpi's legs look like they're going; Christensen is great on the ball, but not physical enough without it. Both left backs cannot play in a back 4.

I'll reserve judgement on Kepa for the time being as I think he's had a tough time off the pitch which has affected him on it. So whilst he's had a poor season, he's still young enough to put that behind him, although fear he's on his way out.

Anyway still plenty of teams in the PL who'd swap their season for ours! 😉😂
		
Click to expand...



Click to expand...


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 27, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The problem both Chelsea and United and to the same extent Arsenal and Spurs face is that City and Liverpool will go out and strengthen their squads anyway and the rest are then playing catch up. Arsenal in particular will need a major rebuild over the next few seasons and you could argue that the same applies to both Chelsea and United and they won't be in a position to compete with the top two for a good few seasons and the PL will remain a two horse race with the odd wild card side punching way above their weight to sometimes keep it interesting
		
Click to expand...

We won't get anywhere near Liverpool or City, our time has passed. We had a good team for a couple of years thanks to good management from Poch and a bit of luck with young players all coming good at the same time, but we're well on the downward curve now. Next season we will be scrapping for 4th and no better. Best we can hope for is José going all out for the Europa since he's desperate for trophies.


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			We won't get anywhere near Liverpool or City, our time has passed. We had a good team for a couple of years thanks to good management from Poch and a bit of luck with young players all coming good at the same time, but we're well on the downward curve now. Next season we will be scrapping for 4th and no better. Best we can hope for is José going all out for the *Europa since he's desperate for trophies.*

Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with that, too many football fans look at top 4 like it's a trophy. Give me a cup any day.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 27, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Nothing wrong with that, too many football fans look at top 4 like it's a trophy. Give me a cup any day.
		
Click to expand...

I don't mind, but you do actually have to win it. Massive difference between (a) winning Europa and finishing 6th in the league and (b) runners-up in Europa and finishing 6th in the league. And the fact is the board will prioritise finishing 4th over Europa performance, unless we do win it because that obviously carries Champs League qualification which is the be all and end all.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2020)

Slime said:



			Now I know you're on the wind up.
They lost *so many* games this season .................................... 
_*Fernandes looks outstanding when he stays on his feet ..*_.......
Rashford *injury prone* ............................................................

Click to expand...

I don’t agree with all of what PaulS has posted but he’s got a very valid point on the middle one. 

He’s definitely got balance issues, very much like Hazard had 😃


----------



## AmandaJR (Jul 27, 2020)

My opinion on United's backline is, for what it's worth, they're fat...

End of debate


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 27, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			My opinion on United's backline is, for what it's worth, they're fat...

End of debate 

Click to expand...

Are they Sunday league fat ? Useful in a wall


----------



## PieMan (Jul 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I don’t agree with all of what PaulS has posted but he’s got a very valid point on the middle one.

He’s definitely got balance issues, very much like Hazard had 😃
		
Click to expand...

Yeah but Hazard was actually tripped/kicked!! 😉


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 27, 2020)

One for Southampton fans, I know we have a few on here. Very good season for you in the end. Will you be able to keep your best players, including Ings, or do you expect to be asset stripped again? Personally, I hope you are able to keep your players and build next season. It may be temporary but I always think you get stuffed a bit each season and deserve at least one year of buidling on what you have achieved.


----------



## Slime (Jul 27, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			My opinion on United's backline is, for what it's worth, they're fat...

End of debate 

Click to expand...




Lord Tyrion said:



			Are they Sunday league fat ? Useful in a wall 

Click to expand...

No, they're DeChambeau fat .................................... and that's not doing him any harm.


----------



## Slime (Jul 27, 2020)

PieMan said:



			Yeah but Hazard was actually tripped/kicked!! 😉
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, about twice.


----------



## Slime (Jul 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I don’t agree with all of what PaulS has posted but he’s got a very valid point on the middle one.

*He’s definitely got balance issues, *very much like Hazard had 😃
		
Click to expand...

I'd agree with that, but nowhere near Hazard's level, and surely the same can be said about most players.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 27, 2020)

Slime said:



			No, they're DeChambeau fat and that's not doing him any harm. 

Click to expand...

Mind, he doesn't have to break into a sprint though . Walking up the fairway after a booming drive is not quite the same as running after a flat out Mane or Vardy.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 27, 2020)

I don't think we have quite the same amount of superstar (potential) players. 

I can't see any of our defence being wanted. JWP imo is massively underated and is miles better than hoiberg. Redmond always has a few quality games but isn't good enough for a bigger club imo. 

Ings would cost clubs a lot of money and I'm not sure a big club would want to spend it, after his time at Lvpool and him being a Saints fan he may also be quite happy where he is. 

We have 3 keepers who are all of similar ability, but gunn was harshly made the scapegoat for the stuffing by Leicester. 

So in short, I don't see any worries this year. I would think Wolves are the team most at risk of asset stripping


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 27, 2020)

Surprised there's not more rumours about interest in JW-P, been excellent whenever I've watched him. Good news for Southampton that he's agreed a new deal.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 27, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			Surprised there's not more rumours about interest in JW-P, been excellent whenever I've watched him. Good news for Southampton that he's agreed a new deal.
		
Click to expand...

Just a free kick merchant.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 27, 2020)

I'd sign him on FM just for those free-kicks


----------



## fundy (Jul 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Just a free kick merchant. 

Click to expand...


going rates about 70m these days for a dead ball specialist isnt


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 27, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Just a free kick merchant. 

Click to expand...

Was good enough for Beckham.....


----------



## PieMan (Jul 27, 2020)

Slime said:



			I'd agree with that, but nowhere near Hazard's level, and surely the same can be said about most players.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah nowhere near Hazards level.......I think he's already surpassed Hazard on that front and he's only been here half a season!!

I would say he's well on the way to catching up Salah.......!! 😉😂😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2020)

PieMan said:



			Yeah nowhere near Hazards level.......I think he's already surpassed Hazard on that front and he's only been here half a season!!

*I would say he's well on the way to catching up Salah.......!*! 😉😂😂
		
Click to expand...

He’s surpassed Mo, he doesn’t get pens anymore 🤷‍♂️


----------



## PieMan (Jul 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			He’s surpassed Mo, he doesn’t get pens anymore 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Well he's old news now isn't he? It's all about Bruno!!! 😉😂😂😂


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2020)

PieMan said:



			Well he's old news now isn't he? It's all about Bruno!!! 😉😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

1 season wonder apparently 🤷‍♂😉


----------



## Slime (Jul 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			1 season wonder apparently 🤷‍♂😉
		
Click to expand...

You wish.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2020)

Slime said:



			You wish. 

Click to expand...

I wish?? Think you've misread my posts, I'm talking about Salah being a 1 season wonder 😉


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 27, 2020)

Massive first step for the mighty Fulham to get back to the PL. Would prefer Swansea in the final (and even we can't give a 2-0 lead away at home surely) and then pray for 90 minutes. Hope we learn a salutary lesson from the last play-off win and not buy a whole new team in the transfer window and completely lose any cohesion.


----------



## fundy (Jul 27, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Massive first step for the mighty Fulham to get back to the PL. Would prefer Swansea in the final (and even we can't give a 2-0 lead away at home surely) and then pray for 90 minutes. Hope we learn a salutary lesson from the last play-off win and not buy a whole new team in the transfer window and completely lose any cohesion.
		
Click to expand...


stunning first goal, big performance considering no Mitrovic. in your hands now especially with Brentford losing the first leg


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			stunning first goal, big performance considering no Mitrovic. in your hands now especially with Brentford losing the first leg
		
Click to expand...

Think Brentford will win at Griffin Park so a West London final would be interesting. I have been saying all along that it's destined that Brentford would go up and start life in their new stadium as a PL side. That and Fulham have a horrid way of finding new ways to break fans hearts. Not sure about the Mitrovic injury and wonder if they'll rest him on Thursday with an eye on the final. Looking at the bottom third of the PL there are enough sides I'd be confident we'd have enough to be competitive in that mini league


----------



## fundy (Jul 27, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Think Brentford will win at Griffin Park so a West London final would be interesting. I have been saying all along that it's destined that Brentford would go up and start life in their new stadium as a PL side. That and Fulham have a horrid way of finding new ways to break fans hearts. Not sure about the Mitrovic injury and wonder if they'll rest him on Thursday with an eye on the final. Looking at the bottom third of the PL there are enough sides I'd be confident we'd have enough to be competitive in that mini league
		
Click to expand...


Brentford have got gradually worse as the finishing post has got closer, not convinced they get through

Unless Mitrovic 100% no reason for him to start whatsoever, sit him on the bench, wrapped in cotton wool for the final surely


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 27, 2020)

Imo as long as Fulham keep mitrovoc as their main striker they'll only ever be a yoyo club. 

He's Darren Huckerby at best.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I'd like to have seen at least a replacement for Sturridge and another ball playing midfielder. An improvement on Henderson/Milner/Gini is a must for me.

Klopp obviously believes in Origi and has seen enough in Brewster to think he can cut the mustard at PL level. The latter might have an impact like Sterling had in his first season, but he might not.

Not improving the squad  with 1 standout player could comeback to haunt us.
		
Click to expand...

What do I know....😂😂


Posted 7/8/19


----------



## fundy (Jul 27, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			We are being linked with David Luiz. Please, please, no.
		
Click to expand...

Murph knew!!!!!!


----------



## fundy (Jul 27, 2020)

Fish said:



			I'm going to have a flutter on Luiz getting more red cards than assists 

Click to expand...


how much you win Fishy?


----------



## Slime (Jul 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I wish?? Think you've misread my posts, I'm talking about Salah being a 1 season wonder 😉
		
Click to expand...

Yup, I got that totally wrong. 

Apologies my man.


----------



## fundy (Jul 27, 2020)

nope too painful we knew what was coming in August even if Stu did tell us centre halfs were overrated lol


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			nope too painful we knew what was coming in August even if Stu did tell us centre halfs were overrated lol
		
Click to expand...

haha


----------



## fundy (Jul 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			haha
		
Click to expand...


the only glimmer was reading about Iwobi going to Everton again haha


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2020)

Luckily I’ve bookmarked Sawtooths prediction of We won’t get near 97pts and we’ll be closer to 70pts  For when he returns 😁


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			the only glimmer was reading about Iwobi going to Everton again haha
		
Click to expand...

comedy gold. Everton, the gift that just keep on giving😂😂


----------



## fundy (Jul 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Luckily I’ve bookmarked Sawtooths prediction of We won’t get near 97pts and we’ll be closer to 70pts  For when he returns 😁
		
Click to expand...


let me know when he does


----------



## fundy (Jul 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			comedy gold. Everton, the gift that just keep on giving😂😂
		
Click to expand...

walcott, iwobi, who do we go for the hat trick with? mustafi?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2020)

There was also a couple of posts from LP praising Bruno Fernandes as a very good player, I wonde4 what changed in January😉


----------



## Wolf (Jul 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			walcott, iwobi, who do we go for the hat trick with? mustafi?
		
Click to expand...

Luiz or Ozil would complete the set nicely 👍🏻


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			walcott, iwobi, who do we go for the hat trick with? mustafi?
		
Click to expand...

Ozil, then they’ll have him and Siggurdsson to moan about 😂


----------



## fundy (Jul 27, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Luiz or Ozil would complete the set nicely 👍🏻
		
Click to expand...


sadly weve probably got 10 or 12 candidates


----------



## Wolf (Jul 27, 2020)

fundy said:



			sadly weve probably got 10 or 12 candidates 

Click to expand...

I can't remember a time where we had such a poor overall squad. Even back in the days of when we finished 8th under Bruce Rioch we had some decent players that with just a couple of additions made us title contenders. Now we have more chance of a relegation battle with this squad than a top 6 finish.. 

We're at least 2 windows away from a decent finish and that's if we get any pennies to spend.


----------



## fundy (Jul 27, 2020)

Wolf said:



			I can't remember a time where we had such a poor overall squad. Even back in the days of when we finished 8th under Bruce Rioch we had some decent players that with just a couple of additions made us title contenders. Now we have more chance of a relegation battle with this squad than a top 6 finish..

We're at least 2 windows away from a decent finish and that's if we get any pennies to spend.
		
Click to expand...


yeah i posted my squad review a few weeks ago, the only big plus is we do have some decent youngsters coming through, lets hope they get a decent chance as were not going to be buying the 7 or 8 top class players we need to compete lol


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			What do I know....😂😂


Posted 7/8/19
		
Click to expand...

I'm not even looking......


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 28, 2020)

Well these were my predictions early in the thread...



Orikoru said:



			VAR won't ruin football but I feel *it will be awful this season with teething problems as it gets over-used, and over relied upon.*

As for handballs, every defender is going to be prancing around the box with their hands behind their back because anything else will be a pen.
		
Click to expand...

Well I was definitely right on the bit in bold, but I think I underestimated just how bad it would be.




Orikoru said:



			So Sarri is off to Juve, and Chavski bringing in Fat Frank by all accounts. That's hilarious. Be careful what you wish for eh? I can see this being a disaster season for them. How's Lamps going to loan in half the Chelsea youth team like last season if he's already at Chelsea??
		
Click to expand...

Holding my hands up for being wrong here. He did a good job.


----------



## fundy (Jul 28, 2020)

Villa asking 80m from United for Grealish! Seems to be based on they were prepared pay that for Maguire than they can pay it for Grealish too


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			Villa asking 80m from United for Grealish! Seems to be based on they were prepared pay that for Maguire than they can pay it for Grealish too 

Click to expand...

However covid has affected football clubs 

Should be 50 mil most


----------



## AmandaJR (Jul 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			Villa asking 80m from United for Grealish! Seems to be based on they were prepared pay that for Maguire than they can pay it for Grealish too 

Click to expand...

He won't leave - Villa through and through


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 28, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			However covid has affected football clubs

Should be 50 mil most
		
Click to expand...

And if he hadn't have declared for England as opposed to Ireland that's how much he would be.


----------



## Wolf (Jul 28, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			He won't leave - Villa through and through 

Click to expand...

To be fair to him he's 25 this year and has har plenty of chances to move before but has been loyal when they went down and helped drag them back up. If he moves now he can still be classed as a loyal Villa fan and player going on to next stage in his career.


----------



## User62651 (Jul 28, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			He won't leave - Villa through and through 

Click to expand...

Hope he stays and McGinn stays fit, they really missed Abraham this year, need an out and out goalscorer. Could do worse than pinch Calum Wilson off Bournemouth now they'll be looking to reduce costs/offload players.

Not sure why, I just don't think Grealish would work at ManU. He's an old fashioned sort of player.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 28, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			Hope he stays and McGinn stays fit, they really missed Abraham this year, need an out and out goalscorer. Could do worse than pinch Calum Wilson off Bournemouth now they'll be looking to reduce costs/offload players.

Not sure why, I just don't think Grealish would work at ManU. He's an old fashioned sort of player.
		
Click to expand...

I think he suits the sort of freedom he is given at Villa, big fish etc. He may well fit in at Utd but it may stifle him as well. He can certainly move into a better team but wherever he goes then hopefully he is allowed the freedom he has now or otherwise he will not be quite the same threat. 

Good shout about Wilson, he would suit them I think.


----------



## User62651 (Jul 28, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think he suits the sort of freedom he is given at Villa, big fish etc. He may well fit in at Utd but it may stifle him as well. He can certainly move into a better team but wherever he goes then hopefully he is allowed the freedom he has now or otherwise he will not be quite the same threat.

Good shout about Wilson, he would suit them I think.
		
Click to expand...

Yep you're right, the modern Klopp or Guardiola way of team team team - attack together defend together with zero slacking by anyone, Grealish doesn't quite fit that mould for me. I think Souness aired some doubts recently.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 28, 2020)

Has Grealish been linked to Man Utd then?? How the heck is he getting in that team with Bruno F and Pogba around? I could see him fitting more in the Arsenal team.


----------



## Wolf (Jul 28, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Has Grealish been linked to Man Utd then?? How the heck is he getting in that team with Bruno F and Pogba around? I could see him fitting more in the Arsenal team.
		
Click to expand...

Id happily have him over what we have, problem is we can't afford to even buy his Alice bands whilst we have Ozil 😒


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 28, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			And if he hadn't have declared for England as opposed to Ireland that's how much he would be. 

Click to expand...

30 tops .. 20 because of the socks


----------



## Pathetic Shark (Jul 28, 2020)

BBC are reporting that Bournemouth are considering legal action over Aston Villa getting a point in their game with Sheffield United because of a VAR error and that led to them avoiding relegation.
I mean where could that end?

"My learned friend has discovered that in the 37th minute of a game last October, a player should have been penalised for a foul in his own half and four minutes later, this led to a goal against my client's team."


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 28, 2020)

Pathetic Shark said:



			BBC are reporting that Bournemouth are considering legal action over Aston Villa getting a point in their game with Sheffield United because of a VAR error and that led to them avoiding relegation.
I mean where could that end?

"My learned friend has discovered that in the 37th minute of a game last October, a player should have been penalised for a foul in his own half and four minutes later, this led to a goal against my client's team."
		
Click to expand...

That was a serious error .. var didn't overrule Hawkeye which was turned off apparently !

But then Sheffield united sued us because apparently tevez kept us up lol even tho he scored mostly second goals in games we were already winning.. that and if you are 10 points clear you have No1 else to blame 

Bournemouth litterally went down because villa benefited there 

Everyone knew at half time.and way they focused on the management I was thinking he was going to let Sheffield united score a tap in to keep the integrity of the game going


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 28, 2020)

Grealish will definitely go, imagine how many penalties he'll get in that Utd team. He worse than Fernandes.


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 28, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Has Grealish been linked to Man Utd then?? How the heck is he getting in that team with Bruno F and Pogba around? I could see him fitting more in the Arsenal team.
		
Click to expand...

Was pretty much a done deal when speaking to a few Villa mates a few weeks back.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 28, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Was pretty much a done deal when speaking to a few Villa mates a few weeks back.
		
Click to expand...

I thought the story with him was that he was Villa through and through 🤔.

For some reason it chopped off the utd fan part of your quote whichwas the bit I was referring to.


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 28, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I thought the story with him was that he was Villa through and through 🤔
		
Click to expand...

I edited because I wanted to check my facts. I'm sure I'd heard it before, but I maybe getting mixed up with Maddison at Leicester.


----------



## Wolf (Jul 28, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I thought the story with him was that he was Villa through and through 🤔
		
Click to expand...

I think that post you quoted just been edited 😂

It initially said he grew up a Utd fan but think the OP realised his brain fart as Grealish has always said was a Villa fan even his great grandad or someone played for Villa.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 28, 2020)

In that case I can go back to liking him again now 😆


----------



## Bazzatron (Jul 28, 2020)

Wolf said:



			I think that post you quoted just been edited 😂

It initially said he grew up a Utd fan but think the OP realised his brain fart as Grealish has always said was a Villa fan even his great grandad or someone played for Villa.
		
Click to expand...

I don't know how I mixed him up, it's literally all the Villa fans round here talk about.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 28, 2020)

Pathetic Shark said:



			BBC are reporting that Bournemouth are considering legal action over Aston Villa getting a point in their game with Sheffield United because of a VAR error and that led to them avoiding relegation.
I mean where could that end?

"My learned friend has discovered that in the 37th minute of a game last October, a player should have been penalised for a foul in his own half and four minutes later, this led to a goal against my client's team."
		
Click to expand...

The referee has the final word imo. Even if he is wrong.
So it’s done and dusted.
Otherwise we would be in court every Monday.
Or villa will find a VAR decision that was a bit dodgy for Bournemouth and counter sue


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			The referee has the final word imo. Even if he is wrong.
So it’s done and dusted.
Otherwise we would be in court every Monday.
Or villa will find a VAR decision that was a bit dodgy for Bournemouth and counter sue
		
Click to expand...

The Ref doesn’t though, that’s why technology has been introduced, he checked his watch and Hawkeye says over the line or not.
In this instance it never recognised were the ball was as it was faulty.

Hawkeye immediately apologised after the game, the VAR Officials also deemed it over the line, but couldn’t tell the Ref as it’s not one of the 4 reasons they can interfere on.

The Ref doesn’t though, that’s why technology has been introduced, he checked his watch and Hawkeye says over the line or not.
In this instance it never recognised were the ball was as it was faulty.

Lot more to this one than simply saying the ref has the final word.

As much as I sympathise with Bournemouth in this instance, I don’t agree with them suing anyone, they had 37 other games to get enough points and who’s to say Villa wouldn’t have won 2-1 if the goal had been given.


----------



## Wolf (Jul 28, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			I don't know how I mixed him up, it's literally all the Villa fans round here talk about.
		
Click to expand...

Easy done our board got confused into thinking Ozil was worth 350k a week.


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			Villa asking 80m from United for Grealish! Seems to be based on they were prepared pay that for Maguire than they can pay it for Grealish too 

Click to expand...

Is this a wind up lol? He's an awful player, lazy, goes missing for huge periods of games, loses the ball in poor positions. Would be a terrible signing for Man Utd or any of the top teams imo.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jul 28, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Is this a wind up lol? He's an awful player, lazy, goes missing for huge periods of games, loses the ball in poor positions. Would be a terrible signing for Man Utd or any of the top teams imo.
		
Click to expand...

I have to agree in the main. Bit of a prancing pony who flatters to deceive imho. Never mind the ridiculous hair, short socks, teeny shin pads and tight shorts...


----------



## User62651 (Jul 28, 2020)

Villa losing Grealish would be like Liverpool losing Coutinho........they'd just move on. 

£50 mill would go a long way at Villa. 

ManU's list of mega-expensive duds is legendary.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 28, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Is this a wind up lol? He's an awful player, lazy, goes missing for huge periods of games, loses the ball in poor positions. Would be a terrible signing for Man Utd or any of the top teams imo.
		
Click to expand...

I have always thought he was a big fish in a small pond at Villa and even then has gone missing and gone down far too easily without always producing an end result. Don't think he's ever worth the figures being quoted and even though a big manager may bring him on I don't ever seem him being a game changing top player at a big club


----------



## ColchesterFC (Jul 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The Ref doesn’t though, that’s why technology has been introduced, he checked his watch and Hawkeye says over the line or not.
In this instance it never recognised were the ball was as it was faulty.

Hawkeye immediately apologised after the game, the VAR Officials also deemed it over the line, but couldn’t tell the Ref as it’s not one of the 4 reasons they can interfere on.

The Ref doesn’t though, that’s why technology has been introduced, he checked his watch and Hawkeye says over the line or not.
In this instance it never recognised were the ball was as it was faulty.
		
Click to expand...

If the linesman had flagged for a goal could the ref have referred it to VAR to check?

EDIT - or would VAR check it anyway in that situation as they check all goals? Can a linesman overule Hawkeye?


----------



## hairball_89 (Jul 28, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Is this a wind up lol? He's an awful player, lazy, goes missing for huge periods of games, loses the ball in poor positions. Would be a terrible signing for Man Utd or any of the top teams imo.
		
Click to expand...

This. Absolutely 100%. Don't get it at all. My parents have season tickets at the Amex, and I've seen Villa a few times down there. The way he's spoken about in Villa vs Brighton he should be the standout best player on the pitch by a mile. He's never been that when I've seen him in the flesh. Vastly anonymous, doesn't help the team defend. 

And his socks? That's enough of a reason to demonstrate how much he thinks of himself. 

hopefully Utd spend £80m on him!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 28, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			If the linesman had flagged for a goal could the ref have referred it to VAR to check?

EDIT - or would VAR check it anyway in that situation as they check all goals? Can a linesman overule Hawkeye?
		
Click to expand...

Only the Ref wears a watch with Hawkeye decision and I believe and he depends on it working correctly as Hawkeye is meant to be that accurate.

I don’t believe a linesman can over rule Hawkeye and VAR couldn’t get involved. Crazy situation.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The Ref doesn’t though, that’s why technology has been introduced, he checked his watch and Hawkeye says over the line or not.
In this instance it never recognised were the ball was as it was faulty.

Hawkeye immediately apologised after the game, the VAR Officials also deemed it over the line, but couldn’t tell the Ref as it’s not one of the 4 reasons they can interfere on.

The Ref doesn’t though, that’s why technology has been introduced, he checked his watch and Hawkeye says over the line or not.
In this instance it never recognised were the ball was as it was faulty.

Lot more to this one than simply saying the ref has the final word.

As much as I sympathise with Bournemouth in this instance, I don’t agree with them suing anyone, they had 37 other games to get enough points and who’s to say Villa wouldn’t have won 2-1 if the goal had been given.
		
Click to expand...

So if Hawkeye isn’t working the ref has the final say.
Even with all the tech ,the ref has the final say.
He dosnt have to take the opinion of VAR as far as I know.or does he?


----------



## fundy (Jul 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			So if Hawkeye isn’t working the ref has the final say.
Even with all the tech ,the ref has the final say.
He dosnt have to take the opinion of VAR as far as I know.or does he?
		
Click to expand...


no because the ref didnt know he didnt have hawkeye, he just kept pointing at his wrist to say the technology says no goal, he didnt even consider his own opinion, as to what his lino was watching lol but again wouldnt have been considered because theyve been told the goal line tech is 100% (it may be close to if theyve turned it on!)

again VAR didnt even bother looking because the goal line tech was "infallible", if they were watching at stockley park they tell the ref on the ear piece in seconds, it gets reviewed and overruled

only became apparent once the game kicked off that no one had even checked because they assumed the tech couldnt fail (until it did)


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			So if Hawkeye isn’t working the ref has the final say.
Even with all the tech ,the ref has the final say.
He dosnt have to take the opinion of VAR as far as I know.or does he?
		
Click to expand...

The Ref didn’t know it wasn’t working! It didn’t signal goal so he played on, the decision would of been made by a working Hawkeye which he would of gone along with. So not his decision.

VAR is there to assist, but goal line technology is not one of their 4 areas to intervene, even though it was admitted the VAR Official could see from replays it was clearly over the line.
He doesn’t ever have to take VAR’s opinion, but VAR is not Hawkeye which he does.

A statement from the PGMOL said: "Under the IFAB protocol, the VAR is able to check goal situations, however due to the fact that the on-field match officials did not receive a signal, and the unique nature of that, the VAR did not intervene."


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			no because the ref didnt know he didnt have hawkeye, he just kept pointing at his wrist to say the technology says no goal, he didnt even consider his own opinion, as to what his lino was watching lol but again wouldnt have been considered because theyve been told the goal line tech is 100% (it may be close to if theyve turned it on!)

again VAR didnt even bother looking because the goal line tech was "infallible", if they were watching at stockley park they tell the ref on the ear piece in seconds, it gets reviewed and overruled

only became apparent once the game kicked off that no one had even checked because they assumed the tech couldnt fail (until it did)
		
Click to expand...

So if Hawkeye is working / or not from the start or breaks down it needs a warning system to tell the ref it’s not working!
The ref needs to use his judgement but with all the tech VAR is still only an opinion from someone in Stockley Park.
It’s my opinion that the ref is in charge of the game, so has the final say!
VAR is a joke , it should be used for every controversial incident or not at all.
Especially diving.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			So if Hawkeye is working / or not from the start or breaks down it needs a warning system to tell the ref it’s not working!
The ref needs to use his judgement but with all the tech VAR is still only an opinion from someone in Stockley Park.
It’s my opinion that the ref is in charge of the game, so has the final say!
VAR is a joke , it should be used for every controversial incident or not at all.
Especially diving.
		
Click to expand...

You’re confusing the Ref with VAR and Hawkeye, the Ref wears a watch which vibrates if Hawkeye says the all the ball is over the line, vibrate = goal, no vibrate = No goal, he accepts that, can’t over rule it, therefore does not have the final say were hawkeye is involved.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			So if Hawkeye is working / or not from the start or breaks down it needs a warning system to tell the ref it’s not working!
The ref needs to use his judgement but with all the tech VAR is still only an opinion from someone in Stockley Park.
It’s my opinion that the ref is in charge of the game, so has the final say!
VAR is a joke , it should be used for every controversial incident or not at all.
Especially diving.
		
Click to expand...

The ref has the final say on many things. Goal line simply isn't one of them. Just like in tennis and hawkeye makes the decision. 

If the ref is told something is 100 percent infalable then he and his linemen won't even pay attention to the ball crossing the line as they'll concentate on to her infringements that could occur. 

Hawkeye quite clearly made the mistake. That being said, bmouth should have complained along with many other clubs wehn it happened. 

It's now just sour grapes.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The Ref didn’t know it wasn’t working! It didn’t signal goal so he played on, the decision would of been made by a working Hawkeye which he would of gone along with. So not his decision.

VAR is there to assist, but goal line technology is not one of their 4 areas to intervene, even though it was admitted the VAR Official could see from replays it was clearly over the line.
He doesn’t ever have to take VAR’s opinion, but VAR is not Hawkeye which he does.

A statement from the PGMOL said: "Under the IFAB protocol, the VAR is able to check goal situations, however due to the fact that the on-field match officials did not receive a signal, and the unique nature of that, the VAR did not intervene."
		
Click to expand...

Hawkeye tells him it’s over the line ,but the ref makes the decision it’s a goal.
The ref is in charge nobody else.
The tech just helps him get it correct ( if it’s turned on properly)


----------



## fundy (Jul 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			So if Hawkeye is working / or not from the start or breaks down it needs a warning system to tell the ref it’s not working!
The ref needs to use his judgement but with all the tech VAR is still only an opinion from someone in Stockley Park.
It’s my opinion that the ref is in charge of the game, so has the final say!
VAR is a joke , it should be used for every controversial incident or not at all.
Especially diving.
		
Click to expand...


not that i dont agree with some of your views thats not relevant here, the ref needs to be in control but clearly isnt in this situation because of how the system was set up. The hawkeye watch should confirm goal or no goal, its currently set up as 1 way only, ie it only buzzes if no goal so the ref assumes its a goal if no buzz! That the ref doesnt even consider it could be wrong is clearly wrong too but how theyve been trained

var as its been used this year is a joke for sure, right intention, wrong implementation. lets hope next years version is better (and when the decision is subjective results in the ref watching a screen and making his decision still)


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Hawkeye tells him it’s over the line ,but the ref makes the decision it’s a goal.
The ref is in charge nobody else.
		
Click to expand...

No! Hawkeye makes the decision and tells him what it is, he accepts it without question.

Even after the game the Sheff Utd manager Chris Wilder said that the Ref (Oliver) had the feeling it was a goal, but Hawkeye told him it wasn’t.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Hawkeye tells him it’s over the line ,but the ref makes the decision it’s a goal.
The ref is in charge nobody else.
The tech just helps him get it correct ( if it’s turned on properly)
		
Click to expand...

Wrong.
he awards the goal, he can’t override so has no power in regards to the decision.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			No! Hawkeye makes the decision and tells him what it is, he accepts it without question.

Even after the game the Sheff Utd manager Chris Wilder said that the Ref (Oliver) had the feeling it was a goal, but Hawkeye told him it wasn’t.
		
Click to expand...

Hawkeye is a machine it dosnt make decisions it just tells the ref it’s over the line or it’s not!
That’s just fact.
The ref accepts it as fact and then makes his decision.
That’s how I see it , if you see it differently that’s fine!


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 28, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Wrong.
he awards the goal, he can’t override so has no power in regards to the decision.
		
Click to expand...

Wrong .
He accept the fact it’s over the line then decides to award the goal.
Hawkeye just deals in fact , over or not it dosnt make decisions.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Hawkeye is a machine it dosnt make decisions it just tells the ref it’s over the line or it’s not!
That’s just fact.
The ref accepts it as fact and then makes his decision.
That’s how I see it , if you see it differently that’s fine!
		
Click to expand...

You keep saying “makes a decision” like he has a choice, he doesn’t get a choice, he has no decision to make, his role in this is to accept what Hawkeye tells him and him to blow his whistle or not. ie, do as he’s informed.

It’s not, Vibrate = goal (if you’d like to agree), No Vibrate = goal (if you’d like to agree)

The whole reason Hawkeye was brought in was to help the Referee by taking the decision and possible controversey away from them.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 28, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Wrong .
He accept the fact it’s over the line then decides to award the goal.
Hawkeye just deals in fact , over or not it dosnt make decisions.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but that's just not how it works. The ref has no power I regards to hawkeye. He doesnt decide to award a goal at all. He simply implements the technologies decision. 

If he got told by hawkeye it's a goal and didn't give it. He would be up for review. 

There is no decision made by him. He just does as he's told. For the exact same reason that the ref is rumoured to have said he thought hawkeye was wrong but couldnt change the decision.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 28, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			No! Hawkeye makes the decision 

You keep saying Hawkeye make the decision!
It dosnt make decisions ! It states fact , it buzzes if it’s over the line.
That’s not making a decision.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 28, 2020)

@Liverpoolphil @Fish 

can one of you guys start 2020/21 so I can stop reading this......


----------



## fundy (Jul 28, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



@Liverpoolphil @Fish

can one of you guys start 2020/21 so I can stop reading this......
		
Click to expand...


pretty sure we should let one of the league winning sides fans do it, guess thats Stu in Phils absence


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 28, 2020)

If he got told by hawkeye it's a goal and didn't give it. He would be up for review.

[/QUOTE]
That is correct because right or wrong he has made that decision.!!


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 29, 2020)

My head hurts......


----------



## clubchamp98 (Jul 29, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			My head hurts......
		
Click to expand...

It’s only been a few days without any footy.
Bored already.
Will have to play more golf.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 29, 2020)

Be strong @Papas1982 we need to get the FA cup and CL out of the way first 😁


----------



## Slime (Jul 29, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Be strong @Papas1982 we need to get the FA cup and CL out of the way first 😁
		
Click to expand...

............................ and The Europa League!!!


----------



## 4LEX (Jul 29, 2020)

Pathetic Shark said:



			BBC are reporting that Bournemouth are considering legal action over Aston Villa getting a point in their game with Sheffield United because of a VAR error and that led to them avoiding relegation.
I mean where could that end?

"My learned friend has discovered that in the 37th minute of a game last October, a player should have been penalised for a foul in his own half and four minutes later, this led to a goal against my client's team."
		
Click to expand...

So they should do. If the PL want to introduce VAR and use it for pathetic marginal offsides, then why wasn't it used for the biggest mistake of the season? It was so clear and obvious Hawkeye had got it wrong. Bournemouth are down but they should be rewarded financially. That mistake could cause them to go under the margins are so fine.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 29, 2020)

Can we finish this one off with a picture of the current world, European and English champions, please.

Go on, it'll only need one photo.


----------



## Wolf (Jul 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Can we finish this one off with a picture of the current world, European and English champions, please.

Go on, it'll only need one photo. 

Click to expand...

Nah cos this seasons not ended until the new European champions are crowned, then we can end it knowing balance is resorted 😉


----------



## pauljames87 (Jul 29, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Nah cos this seasons not ended until the new European champions are crowned, then we can end it knowing balance is resorted 😉
		
Click to expand...

Plus the "current" champs got kicked out a while ago whilst brining covid back with them 😳


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 29, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Nah cos this seasons not ended until the new European champions are crowned, then we can end it knowing balance is resorted 😉
		
Click to expand...

Now its taken this long, should be "null and voided", surely..... 

Separately, wonder if Tashy has read all 92 pages yet?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			pretty sure we should let one of the league winning sides fans do it, guess thats Stu in Phils absence 

Click to expand...

No chance, it HAS to be Fishy.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 29, 2020)

Love how football fans take everything to the extreme. Think Grealish isn’t a good player? You don’t know football. x


----------



## Wolf (Jul 29, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Love how football fans take everything to the extreme. Think Grealish isn’t a good player? You don’t know football. x
		
Click to expand...

I rate him highly, I don't think people have seen enough of him and judge on small snippets. He reads the game well and comes up with the goods, I'd happily take him at Arsenal.


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 29, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Love how football fans take everything to the extreme. Think Grealish isn’t a good player? You don’t know football. x
		
Click to expand...

Get him signed then 🤣


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 29, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Get him signed then 🤣
		
Click to expand...

I’d be happy with him in our squad but I’d rather have Sancho who would be a regular.


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 29, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			I’d be happy with him in our squad but I’d rather have Sancho who would be a regular.
		
Click to expand...

Well of course, there's an absolute gulf between those two players.


----------



## Wolf (Jul 29, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Well of course, there's an absolute gulf between those two players.
		
Click to expand...

Completely different type of forward player that bring different things.


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 29, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Completely different type of forward player that bring different things.
		
Click to expand...

Different quality as well 😁


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 29, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Well of course, there's an absolute gulf between those two players.
		
Click to expand...

Sancho is arguably the best player on the planet in the past year, so of course, but Grealish would improve any squad in the league.


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 29, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Sancho is arguably the best player on the planet in the past year, so of course, but Grealish would improve any squad in the league.
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough, but then again you do have Lingard in your midfield 🤭


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 29, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Fair enough, but then again you do have Lingard in your midfield 🤭
		
Click to expand...

He’s off to Bournemouth it seems ASAP.


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 29, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			He’s off to Bournemouth it seems ASAP.
		
Click to expand...

Couldn't come soon enough I bet lol.


----------



## Wolf (Jul 29, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			He’s off to Bournemouth it seems ASAP.
		
Click to expand...

Seems a strange choice to go froM Mann Utd to a team thats just been relegated, unless literally nobody else wanted him, though that wouldn't be a surprise.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 29, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Seems a strange choice to go froM Mann Utd to a team thats just been relegated, unless literally nobody else wanted him, though that wouldn't be a surprise.
		
Click to expand...

My apologies - I meant Brighton. He spent time there on loan and apparently has good connections there still.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 29, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			My apologies - I meant Brighton. He spent time there on loan and apparently has good connections there still.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not a fan of his as a player, never quite sure what he brings, but by all accounts he has had a tough time off the field family wise. We forget how normal problems can affect even very highly paid footballers. Hopefully this move will help him get sorted off the field as much as on.


----------



## fundy (Jul 29, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Get him signed then 🤣
		
Click to expand...

i like him too (not 80m much though!), but hes a long long way down the list of what we actually need and even further down the list of what we can afford!


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 29, 2020)

Grealish is a tippy-tappy player.

I wouldnt want him for free for what I've seen. Like Hazard, happy to "buy" fouls instead of sometimes trying to ride them to create something more substantial. Also gets caught on the ball too much, instead of seeing the pass instead as Souness alluded to. its not often you seen Keane / Scholes / Gerrard / Lampard caught on the ball as much as most times off-loaded it, had a shot, beat a man or built a move instead.

Playground footballer. 

Cue Mane / Salah going down too easy examples.


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Grealish is a tippy-tappy player.

I wouldnt want him for free for what I've seen. Like Hazard, happy to "buy" fouls instead of sometimes trying to ride them to create something more substantial. Also gets caught on the ball too much, instead of seeing the pass instead as Souness alluded to. its not often you seen Keane / Scholes / Gerrard / Lampard caught on the ball as much as most times off-loaded it, had a shot, beat a man or built a move instead.

Playground footballer.

Cue Mane / Salah going down too easy examples.

Click to expand...

The argument I’ve heard is that Grealish gets fouled so much because he’s on the ball so often and he doesn’t have the players around him to pass to and make the runs. I tend to agree with that. But of course here’s no guarantee he makes the step up if he does sign for a more ambitious club.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 29, 2020)

I like Grealish I think he's a very good player but not worth the crazy fees being quoted. He'd improve in most of the big sides, I'm just not sure if he's got enough to take it to the next level of Salah,Mane,Sterling, Henderson etc


😉


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I like Grealish I think he's a very good player but not worth the crazy fees being quoted. He'd improve in most of the big sides, I'm just not sure if he's got enough to take it to the next level of Salah,Mane,Sterling, Henderson etc


😉
		
Click to expand...

Maybe somewhere lower than Henderson and above de Bruyne, per chance?


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I like Grealish I think he's a very good player but not worth the crazy fees being quoted. He'd improve in most of the big sides, I'm just not sure if he's got enough to take it to the next level of Salah,Mane,Sterling, Henderson etc


😉
		
Click to expand...

I'd rather give Wilson a go rather than grealish.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'd rather give Wilson a go rather than grealish.
		
Click to expand...

This isnt junior football giving lads a go, they've gotta be ready and that includes training. If the level isn't there they don't get a look in.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			This isnt junior football giving lads a go, they've gotta be ready and that includes training. If the level isn't there they don't get a look in.
		
Click to expand...

He's done well at Bournemouth in his opening prem season, so dont know where you get junior football from???


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 29, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			He's done well at Bournemouth in his opening prem season, so dont know where you get junior football from???
		
Click to expand...

giving lads a go. That’s what happens in junior football.

you’re right he has but he needs to step up again in training.

id like a ready made player  to add to the squad.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 29, 2020)

The stats for Grealish look good on paper in terms of creativity. 2nd most chances created in the league after De Bruyne, 2.5 key passes per game - joint 2nd behind KDB, pass success of 84.8% - higher than guys like De Bruyne and Maddison, 8th most completed dribbles in the league, also by far the most fouled player in the league, so read into those stats what you wish. I'd be interested to see how he would go at a big side where he's likely to see less of the ball than he does at Villa where he's very much the main man, but then conversely how his output would change when able to combine with better attacking options than he's got alongside him at Villa. I wouldn't be spending 60-80m to find out though


----------



## Captainron (Jul 30, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			The stats for Grealish look good on paper in terms of creativity. 2nd most chances created in the league after De Bruyne, 2.5 key passes per game - joint 2nd behind KDB, pass success of 84.8% - higher than guys like De Bruyne and Maddison, 8th most completed dribbles in the league, also by far the most fouled player in the league, so read into those stats what you wish. I'd be interested to see how he would go at a big side where he's likely to see less of the ball than he does at Villa where he's very much the main man, but then conversely how his output would change when able to combine with better attacking options than he's got alongside him at Villa. I wouldn't be spending 60-80m to find out though 

Click to expand...

Don’t see how Man U are still interested in him with Fernandes and Pogba there. They also have a few good young attacking lads who could be very good.


----------



## Slime (Jul 30, 2020)

Captainron said:



			Don’t see how Man U are still interested in him with Fernandes and Pogba there. They also have a few good young attacking lads who could be very good.
		
Click to expand...

Squad depth is the name of the game.
United's squad does not have enough quality at depth beyond the starting XI.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 30, 2020)

Slime said:



			Squad depth is the name of the game.
United's squad does not have enough quality at depth beyond the starting XI.
		
Click to expand...

Given that they're maintaining the stupid five subs rule, I imagine the big, rich teams will be stockpiling players more than ever, since they can give out more minutes to everyone.


----------



## Wolf (Jul 30, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Given that they're maintaining the stupid five subs rule, I imagine the big, rich teams will be stockpiling players more than ever, since they can give out more minutes to everyone. 

Click to expand...

The 5 subs really does play into the hands of the big spenders, I can see an even bigger gap opening up with the likes of Liverpool, City, Chelsea and Utd having the spending power.


----------



## 4LEX (Jul 30, 2020)

The water break and five sub rule needs to go ASAP. Theres no water break in August and September usually, when it can reach 30 degrees yet we've got to endure another stop in play when conditions are fine. The pace of play without crowds is more friendly like so even less reason for it.

Grealish is a very good player but not sure he's got the right mentality to be at a top club. Maybe he needs a big move to help him grow up and improve his attitude though. Looks to me like someone who cruises through games and spends more time winning cheap free kicks and playing with his hair, than dominating matches. If United are haggling over Sancho at £80m, no way will they go near him for anything over £40m. I think if they can offload Pogba for decent money, Grealish would be a good upgrade although both have the same negative traits.


----------



## Cherry13 (Jul 30, 2020)

https://www.skysports.com/football/...tal-partners-and-reuben-brothers-end-interest


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 30, 2020)

Cherry13 said:



https://www.skysports.com/football/...tal-partners-and-reuben-brothers-end-interest

Click to expand...

No surprise is it? Taking that long, there had to be issues.

Do you think we can now stop hearing all about the wonderful talents, the life of Amanda Stavely up here now? A super rich fixer, I really don't care.

Sad for the club though, they can't move forwards until Ashley has gone.


----------



## 4LEX (Jul 30, 2020)

Nothing to do with time or human rights, everything to do with piracy over TV deals.

Kill people nae bother. Bypass PL TV rights.....you're dusted. The PL allowed the Glazers to borrow against MUFC's assets, future value and profits, offsetting the interest, no questions asked. Yet a cash buyer with nothing other than good intentions they stall because of TV rights. 

Throw in Man City being allowed a sponsorship deal worth FIVE TIMES the deal Arsenal got for a shorter contract. Despite being a higher profile club and in London with a new stadium.


----------



## Cherry13 (Jul 30, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No surprise is it? Taking that long, there had to be issues.

Do you think we can now stop hearing all about the wonderful talents, the life of Amanda Stavely up here now? A super rich fixer, I really don't care.

Sad for the club though, they can't move forwards until Ashley has gone.
		
Click to expand...

I am actually genuinely surprised, I didn’t think for one second the PL would hesitate to get into bed with MBS, he’s too rich and powerful to say no too.  I think in public they’ll say they followed a process and Saudis couldn’t fulfil that, but in private they’ll be gutted they couldn’t leverage a situation to enhance the next Middle East tv deal.  
As mentioned above, this has nothing to do with human rights, but all to do with money. If the PL were interested in human rights they wouldn’t be taking money from the Qataris


----------



## Pathetic Shark (Jul 30, 2020)

4LEX said:



			The PL allowed the Glazers to borrow against MUFC's assets, future value and profits, offsetting the interest, no questions asked.
		
Click to expand...

So basically like your mortgage then?
And they have provided the necessary investment for players, not done any of the scare tactics that the rentamob Shareholders United lot promised would happen and stayed out of the way to let football people make the decisions.    I would think most Premier League teams would want owners like that.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 30, 2020)

Pathetic Shark said:



			So basically like your mortgage then?
And they have provided the necessary investment for players, not done any of the scare tactics that the rentamob Shareholders United lot promised would happen and stayed out of the way to let football people make the decisions.    I would think most Premier League teams would want owners like that.
		
Click to expand...

They have put the club in heavy debt and are also taking big chunks of money out of the club every year, very big chunks. I don't think you will find many fans wanting Glazer like owners at their club.


----------



## Slime (Jul 30, 2020)

4LEX said:



			The water break and five sub rule needs to go ASAP. Theres no water break in August and September usually, when it can reach 30 degrees yet we've got to endure another stop in play when conditions are fine. The pace of play without crowds is more friendly like so even less reason for it.

Grealish is a very good player but not sure he's got the right mentality to be at a top club. Maybe he needs a big move to help him grow up and improve his attitude though. Looks to me like someone who cruises through games and spends more time winning cheap free kicks and playing with his hair, than dominating matches. If United are haggling over Sancho at £80m, no way will they go near him for anything over £40m. *I think if they can offload Pogba for decent money, Grealish would be a good upgrade *although both have the same negative traits.
		
Click to expand...

You think Grealish is better than Pogba?


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 30, 2020)

Slime said:



			You think Grealish is better than Pogba?
		
Click to expand...

He has a better hairstyle than Pogba 😁

It depends what Pogba turns up and where. For france theres no chance, for Yernited, probably .


----------



## BrianM (Aug 1, 2020)

Who are we thinking for FA cup final today, I think Chelsea will win it, only because the Arsenal defence is terrible 😂😂


----------



## pendodave (Aug 1, 2020)

BrianM said:



			Who are we thinking for FA cup final today, I think Chelsea will win it, only because the Arsenal defence is terrible 😂😂
		
Click to expand...

True enough, but you could equally say the same of chelsea. At least arsenal have a 'keeper who stops the ball every now and then...
I've no dog in the fight, but chelsea seem to defend the break quite poorly, while that is also arsenal's most potent weapon.  It's never a bad idea to score first, but might be particularly  important in this one.
Sadly, it might also lead to quite a cagey game. I hope not.


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

Oh great, Anthony Taylor.


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Oh great, Anthony Taylor.
		
Click to expand...

never rains.....................


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

being totally overrun in midfield from kick off and 1-0 down early sigh


----------



## Wolf (Aug 1, 2020)

Well defence falls apart immediately 😒


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

Yep, it's goingvto be brutal.


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Well defence falls apart immediately 😒
		
Click to expand...

would help if the useless myth in front of them gave some protection, when youre missing mustafi you know its bad lol


----------



## paddyc (Aug 1, 2020)

Let's give Chelsea as much time and space as you want.


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			would help if the useless myth in front of them gave some protection, when youre missing mustafi you know its bad lol
		
Click to expand...

Yes, by far our best defender. How did it come to this. Shocking recruitment policy.


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

72m dead ball specialist. Shockingly rubbish corner.


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

so bored of hearing how much weve improved, from a pathetically low base weve got a bit of structure, thats it, still same old clowns making same old mistakes, still relying on individual ability of a few to get us through


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			72m dead ball specialist. Shockingly rubbish corner.
		
Click to expand...

cometh the hour......


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

or not lol


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

Yep, squad is the result of years of poor recruitment. Buying what was available, what was pushed by agents, rather than targetting what was actually needed.


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Yep, squad is the result of years of poor recruitment. Buying what was available, what was pushed by agents, rather than targetting what was actually needed.
		
Click to expand...


the worry is has that changed going forwards? we'll soon find out i guess (when they announce Willians 250k a week 3 year contract lol)


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

It is a pity that AMN is a better athlete than footballer.


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

some hit that but so sigh, lazy offside


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

This has to be red


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

Bit of a dive there.


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

exageration maybe.


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

if the fouls outside surely its a red


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

Should be Pepe. 72m man.


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

get in


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

Boom.


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Should be Pepe. 72m man.
		
Click to expand...

2nd choice on fks and pens even at that price


----------



## paddyc (Aug 1, 2020)

Oh yes! definitely  playing better now.


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

Auba can be suspect, but fair play, very good pen.


----------



## paddyc (Aug 1, 2020)

Wtf is Giroud doing and VAR wanted to look at it !!


----------



## paddyc (Aug 1, 2020)

The Chelsea formers very quiet most unlike them Fish BiM where are you?!


----------



## Fish (Aug 1, 2020)

paddyc said:



			The Chelsea formers very quiet most unlike them Fish BiM where are you?!
		
Click to expand...

laughing at all your comments😂


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Wtf is Giroud doing and VAR wanted to look at it !!
		
Click to expand...

What he is doing is just embarrassing.


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			laughing at all your comments😂
		
Click to expand...

Happy with the way Chelsea are playing?


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

any danger of Xhaka trying to help Ceballos out in there


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

Need to score soon, or could regret this.


----------



## paddyc (Aug 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			laughing at all your comments😂
		
Click to expand...

Its nice to know your here Robin


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

awful that from Laca


----------



## Fish (Aug 1, 2020)

That’s rubbish ref😡


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			That’s rubbish ref😡
		
Click to expand...

Don't worry, he will balance it up by sending one of ours off soon after the break.


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

We wont get a better chance than now with Pulisic going off


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

Fish, are your boys made of glass?


----------



## paddyc (Aug 1, 2020)

Yeah dont normally  like to see players go off injured but he was causing  problems  for us.😁😁😁


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Yeah dont normally  like to see players go off injured but he was causing  problems  for us.😁😁😁
		
Click to expand...


still think we need to change the midfield, torreira for AMN i think the obvious option


----------



## paddyc (Aug 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			still think we need to change the midfield, torreira for AMN i think the obvious option
		
Click to expand...

Not sure mate. Laca is off the pace needs a boot up backside.


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

How is that not a foul.

Oh, yeah, Taylor is the ref.


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

getting overrun again in midfield, one pass takes xhaka and ceballos out far too easily


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

Arsenal need to wake up or this will end badly.


----------



## paddyc (Aug 1, 2020)

Get Torreira on for Laca quick Arteta.


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

Oh yes.


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

Now get some cover on in the middle of the park please!


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 1, 2020)

Quality from Aubameyang. Made it look so easy.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 1, 2020)

Great goal from Aubamayeng.


----------



## Beezerk (Aug 1, 2020)

Great finish, quality 👌


----------



## Fish (Aug 1, 2020)

So the ref blows up for Tierney without seeing it, who holds his head when he was shoulder barged, then 2 players go down in a collision and he plays advantage, what a shite ref😡


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

Was worried Taylor would blow the wistle for Bellerin there.


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			So the ref blows up for Tierney without seeing it, who holds his head when he was shoulder barged, then 2 players go down in a collision and he plays advantage, what a shite ref😡
		
Click to expand...

It's Taylor, what did you expect?


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			So the ref blows up for Tierney without seeing it, who holds his head when he was shoulder barged, then 2 players go down in a collision and he plays advantage, what a shite ref😡
		
Click to expand...

Haha fo you really expect the red to blow up for that??

I thought the collision was brought on by Rudiger's tackle.


----------



## paddyc (Aug 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			So the ref blows up for Tierney without seeing it, who holds his head when he was shoulder barged, then 2 players go down in a collision and he plays advantage, what a shite ref😡
		
Click to expand...

"Clutching" "Straws"


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

joke of a red card


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 1, 2020)

That's a poor decision.


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 1, 2020)

Xhaka rolling around like he's been shot. That's a harsh yellow card to say the least.


----------



## Wolf (Aug 1, 2020)

Harsh 2nd yellow there. But does us a favour 🤣


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			joke of a red card
		
Click to expand...

2nd yellow but yes agree.


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

Yep, a bit soft that one.


----------



## paddyc (Aug 1, 2020)

Poor decision  against Chelsea  there to 2nd yellow Kovacic for that. becoming  a non contact game now.


----------



## Fish (Aug 1, 2020)

Taylor is a complete joke, yellows been thrown about all over, has he had a bet on how many😡


----------



## chrisd (Aug 1, 2020)

They've got VAR and then dont use it for crucial decisions  😖


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

chrisd said:



			They've got VAR and then dont use it for crucial decisions  😖
		
Click to expand...

cant use it for a yellow card lol, even a 2nd yellow


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 1, 2020)

I wonder if Sawtooth will be along soon to criticise Xhaka's blatant cheating.


----------



## PieMan (Aug 1, 2020)

Kovacic deserved what he got - got a yellow in the first half by poor ball retention. With 5 subs I would've taken him off after about 60 minutes.


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I wonder if Sawtooth will be along soon to criticise Xhaka's blatant cheating.
		
Click to expand...

Not seen much of that, he is just a bit rubbish.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 1, 2020)

Chelsea have bossed the second half but not threatened. Aubamayang shows his class and why you pay big bucks for quality strikers.

Nonsense yellow leading to a red.

I think Arsenal will squeeze this and take the trophy.


----------



## Fish (Aug 1, 2020)

thats outside


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

What?


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

outside to me in real time.


----------



## paddyc (Aug 1, 2020)

Why is Arteta not shoring up midfield and defence instead of bring a striker on. dont get that!


----------



## Fish (Aug 1, 2020)

Far too many games being ruined by refs and totally incorrect decisions, but Taylor won’t care, even when he looks back at Kov’s challenge and see’s it wasn’t even a foul never mind a yellow, match ruined😡


----------



## Piece (Aug 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Chelsea have bossed the second half but not threatened. *Aubamayang shows his class and why you pay big bucks for quality strikers.*

Nonsense yellow leading to a red.

I think Arsenal will squeeze this and take the trophy.
		
Click to expand...

I wonder if Pep is watching....😜


----------



## Fish (Aug 1, 2020)

Handed over the remote, iPad is off, good night.


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

7 minutes?


----------



## Dan2501 (Aug 1, 2020)

How's that not a foul on the edge of the box? This ref has had an absolute shocker.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 1, 2020)

Piece said:



			I wonder if Pep is watching....😜
		
Click to expand...

It would make a lot of sense for City.


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			How's that not a foul on the edge of the box? This ref has had an absolute shocker.
		
Click to expand...

Not for me.


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

I mean the ref had a poor game, but not a foul for me.


----------



## chrisd (Aug 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			cant use it for a yellow card lol, even a 2nd yellow
		
Click to expand...

I know, but I think an obvious bad decision where a player is being sent off is a case where they should !


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 1, 2020)

Could be the worst refereeing ever seen in the cup final.


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

GTFI Arsenal 

A first trophy for Arteta and European footie next year 

Hopefully means Aubameyang will stay, if he doesnt, hes been brilliant in a poor side and would be going out on a massive high!

London not as blue as someone thought eh

Red Army, Red Army, Red Army!!!!


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

Fantastic result for the Arse.


----------



## paddyc (Aug 1, 2020)

Great stuff managed to turn a poor season around. Hopefully  things are looking up for the Ars. Massive credit to Arteta. Red army, red army😁


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Could be the worst refereeing ever seen in the cup final.
		
Click to expand...


pretty sure it wasnt but will fit plenty of agendas


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			pretty sure it wasnt but will fit plenty of agendas
		
Click to expand...

No agenda for me, I just thought he was rubbish.


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			No agenda for me, I just thought he was rubbish.
		
Click to expand...

he was rubbish  (always is), but a long way from the worst in 100+ cup finals and not sure he influenced the result as much as our friend Fishy would like to think


----------



## Piece (Aug 1, 2020)

Ignore the ref, the right team won based on what I saw.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Not seen much of that, he is just a bit rubbish.
		
Click to expand...

Rolling round holding his ankle when he wasnt even touched is cheating according to Sawtooth 😉


----------



## Bazzatron (Aug 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			he was rubbish  (always is), but a long way from the worst in 100+ cup finals and not sure he influenced the result as much as our friend Fishy would like to think
		
Click to expand...

Still deserved to win it. Enjoy.


----------



## need_my_wedge (Aug 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			thats outside
		
Click to expand...

Was to me at first glance, thought we got away with it, but replay showed hands and ball in the area, phew. Deserved win despite some dodgy decisions (we've had a fair few this season too).


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 1, 2020)

I think Arteta has had a decent first season with that cup win but it is still a massive rebuild job he's got on especially if he loses Aubameyang in particular. I think it'll take a good couple of seasons but will the club and the fans give him that time


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I think Arteta has had a decent first season with that cup win but it is still a massive rebuild job he's got on especially if he loses Aubameyang in particular. I think it'll take a good couple of seasons but will the club and the fans give him that time
		
Click to expand...


why wouldnt they? current board give too much not too little time to managers if anything, why having got the man they wanted for the job would they get rid of him quickly?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			why wouldnt they? current board give too much not too little time to managers if anything, why having got the man they wanted for the job would they get rid of him quickly?
		
Click to expand...

Some clubs go through managers like a dose of salts (Watford a good example) and I am simply asking given the size of the rebuild that the Arsenal squad seems to the neutral to need to compete in the PL, will Arteta get the funds and time to start and finish the job?


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Some clubs go through managers like a dose of salts (Watford a good example) and I am simply asking given the size of the rebuild that the Arsenal squad seems to the neutral to need to compete in the PL, will Arteta get the funds and time to start and finish the job?
		
Click to expand...


and as i said, some clubs isnt Arsenal, have never had that reputation and hopefully never will, why would we suddenly turn into Watford????

funds is a whole different question, he will have to work in pretty tight constraints no doubt, but he will get time for sure


----------



## Wolf (Aug 1, 2020)

Apart from the glaring areas of concern for our squad depth we still to tie down Auba because of his goals go that's a massive blow. Then obviously the rebuild of our defense plus centre of the park is an issue. 

But then there's the keeper dilemma Leno is brilliant but Martinez deserves a starting spot as he has shown all the qualities of a 1st choice keeper.


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 1, 2020)

Do you sell Emi though. Could be worth something. Need money. Don't need two keepers.


----------



## davemc1 (Aug 1, 2020)

Congrats to Arsenal, we’ll see you boys in the charity shield! 

it has to be said tho that Auba is far too good not to be challenging for the 2 major trophies...


----------



## paddyc (Aug 1, 2020)

He must keep faith with Martinez. Hes been superb and faultless  since the return and he must love the club being there 10 years and shipped out on loan regularly. Would be mo shortage  of clubs wanting  to sign him now


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2020)

paddyc said:



			He must keep faith with Martinez. Hes been superb and faultless  since the return and he must love the club being there 10 years and shipped out on loan regularly. Would be mo shortage  of clubs wanting  to sign him now
		
Click to expand...

be surprised, had agreed he could go and Leno will become 1st choice again when fully fit (been excellent last 2 seasons), expect unless Martinez changes his mind theyll let him go and look for a new back up, keeper least of our probs


----------



## Deleted Member 1156 (Aug 1, 2020)

Just announced Eddie Howe has left Bournemouth by 'mutual consent'


----------



## pendodave (Aug 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Do you sell Emi though. Could be worth something. Need money. Don't need two keepers.
		
Click to expand...

I presume the Leno would command a bigger fee. Maybe, in the end, this will be the deciding factor. 
It's a good problem to have though, just ask Chelsea...


----------



## paddyc (Aug 1, 2020)

Very sad about Eddie Howe as hoped he would stay and try to get them back up. Sure to get a job at a bigger club as he worked wonders at Bournemouth.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 1, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Very sad as hoped he would stay and try to get them back up. Sure to get a job at a bigger club as he worked wonders at Bournemouth.
		
Click to expand...

Did he?

i mean to get them promoted originally, maybe. But for me he’s a poor mans Rodgers, preaches good attacking footy but pays no regard to defensive work.


----------



## Wolf (Aug 1, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Do you sell Emi though. Could be worth something. Need money. Don't need two keepers.
		
Click to expand...

Can see some bids for Leno possibly, I really rate Leno but Martinez has earned a chance to be starting keeper and on current form deserves No1. Its a bloody tough decision that one,if only we had that embarrassment of riches in defence.


----------



## Wolf (Aug 1, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Did he?

i mean to get them promoted originally, maybe. But for me he’s a poor mans Rodgers, preaches good attacking footy but pays no regard to defensive work.
		
Click to expand...

Not just me then that doesn't get the hype behind Eddie Howe. He didn't work wonders at all really, Bournemouth have been terrible defensively since they came up and he never truly addressed it or improved it, relegation was only a matter of time for them


----------



## Deleted Member 1156 (Aug 1, 2020)

Couple of games at the end of the season where Bournemouth got taken apart and Howe looked clueless. Definitely need to work on defence next season.


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 1, 2020)

Brilliant result today just to see Lampard and Fish miserable. 😀


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			Handed over the remote, iPad is off, good night.
		
Click to expand...

Couldn’t sleep? You were reading the forum 26 minutes ago.


----------



## hairball_89 (Aug 1, 2020)

paddyc said:



			Very sad about Eddie Howe as hoped he would stay and try to get them back up. Sure to get a job at a bigger club as he worked wonders at Bournemouth.
		
Click to expand...

Really?! He got them up, which was a heck of an achievement, but from then on they've been on a downward spiral with the defence getting worse and worse, and he's spent ridiculous amounts of money on bang average (at best) players. You only need to look at the purchases of Ibe, Solanke and Smith from us for a combined c. £40m.

Don't see him getting a job better than the bottom end of the PL at best, anytime soon.


----------



## paddyc (Aug 1, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Did he?

i mean to get them promoted originally, maybe. But for me he’s a poor mans Rodgers, preaches good attacking footy but pays no regard to defensive work.
		
Click to expand...

I think he did a great job and was touted around  for the Arsenal  job a couple of years back.  There spending power doesn't compare to other clubs  Most seasons they have held there own playing some great stuff and beating top clubs and finishing  mid table.  Just had a shocking 2nd half of the season and couldn't score enough goals to win games as they just conceded  too many.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 1, 2020)

paddyc said:



			I think he did a great job and was touted around  for the Arsenal  job a couple of years back.  There spending power doesn't compare to other clubs  Most seasons they have held there own playing some great stuff and beating top clubs and finishing  mid table.  Just had a shocking 2nd half of the season and couldn't score enough goals to win games as they just conceded  too many.
		
Click to expand...

Rivalry aside, I'd not want him anywhere near Saints. Let along seeing him at a top 6 side. 

His teams have averaged close to 70 goals against and 42 points in their 5 year stay in the prem. Teams with lesser players have conceded less when their management set them up accordingly. 

I think they've been involved in lots of fun games as their goals against column would suggest, but whoever he manages next will simply repeat history imo

Unfortunately small as they may be, they still gave him £120m in the last two years and most of the big signings simply failed.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 4, 2020)

Watching the Brentford v Fulham game. Fulham bossing it but look toothless. 

There is a Fulham lad very lucky to be on the pitch still. Quite a reckless tackle that quite easily could have been red rather than yellow. 

Neither look PL right now but that could be the occasion.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 4, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Watching the Brentford v Fulham game. Fulham bossing it but look toothless.

There is a Fulham lad very lucky to be on the pitch still. Quite a reckless tackle that quite easily could have been red rather than yellow.

Neither look PL right now but that could be the occasion.
		
Click to expand...

Al a bit cagey but without Mitrovic we'll always be lacking upfront. Can see Brentford nicking it 2-0 with tow late second half goals. I'm hoping Mitrovic is fit enough to come on as a sub the longer it's 0-0 but got a feeling it's too bad a hamstring strain to risk. Both sides would need to invest to survive in the PL


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 4, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Al a bit cagey but without Mitrovic we'll always be lacking upfront. Can see Brentford nicking it 2-0 with tow late second half goals. I'm hoping Mitrovic is fit enough to come on as a sub the longer it's 0-0 but got a feeling it's too bad a hamstring strain to risk. Both sides would need to invest to survive in the PL
		
Click to expand...

Fulham look very nice, nicely nice 😁, but with no end product. I get that Mitrovic is missing but others need to be chipping in and they look frightened to shoot.

I'm assuming that brentford are better than this normally?

You are right about the need to buy otherwise either one will be doing a Norwich


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 4, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fulham look very nice, nicely nice 😁, but with no end product. I get that Mitrovic is missing but others need to be chipping in and they look frightened to shoot.

I'm assuming that brentford are better than this normally?

You are right about the need to buy otherwise either one will be doing a Norwich
		
Click to expand...

I'd suggest perhaps the occasion and the prize is stifling both sides a little. Even without Mitrovic we're usually more prepared to shoot than tonight and Brentford aren't playing with their pace and running at defences.


----------



## Wolf (Aug 4, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I'd suggest perhaps the occasion and the prize is stifling both sides a little. Even without Mitrovic we're usually more prepared to shoot than tonight and Brentford aren't playing with their pace and running at defences.
		
Click to expand...

On tonight's performances only a couple of players showing anything worthy of the move up to Premier league. 

Both teams likely to be absolute fodder for the PL. Hopefully you're right though and its just the occasion and lack of atmosphere causing issues.


----------



## fundy (Aug 4, 2020)

Wolf said:



			On tonight's performances only a couple of players showing anything worthy of the move up to Premier league.

Both teams likely to be absolute fodder for the PL. Hopefully you're right though and its just the occasion and lack of atmosphere causing issues.
		
Click to expand...


both sides are better than that, harsh to judge them based on the game that no one can afford to lose


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 4, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Think Brentford will win at Griffin Park so a West London final would be interesting. I have been saying all along that it's destined that Brentford would go up and start life in their new stadium as a PL side. That and Fulham have a horrid way of finding new ways to break fans hearts. Not sure about the Mitrovic injury and wonder if they'll rest him on Thursday with an eye on the final. *Looking at the bottom third of the PL there are enough sides I'd be confident we'd have enough to be competitive in that mini league*

Click to expand...




HomerJSimpson said:



			Al a bit cagey but without Mitrovic we'll always be lacking upfront. Can see Brentford nicking it 2-0 with tow late second half goals. I'm hoping Mitrovic is fit enough to come on as a sub the longer it's 0-0 but got a feeling it's too bad a hamstring strain to risk. *Both sides would need to invest to survive in the PL*

Click to expand...

Legendary consistency as always.......


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 4, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Legendary consistency as always.......
		
Click to expand...

Based on our performance at home to Cardiff and tonight think it's apparent we're not good enough.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 4, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Based on our performance at home to Cardiff and tonight think it's apparent we're not good enough.
		
Click to expand...

Yet based on the previous what, 47 games you were??


----------



## Wolf (Aug 4, 2020)

fundy said:



			both sides are better than that, harsh to judge them based on the game that no one can afford to lose
		
Click to expand...

Hence why i said tonight's performance.. Can only judge on what I've seen of them so far this season which is tonight plus maybe a few highlights not been overly impressed then either. But like I said hopefully it is just the occasion stifling it. Another reason why I don't actually like the play off system it often promotes drab games like this.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 4, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Yet based on the previous what, 47 games you were??
		
Click to expand...

Frankly I don't care what you think. Not getting into a pointless argument with someone clearly looking to point score


----------



## fundy (Aug 4, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Hence why i said tonight's performance.. Can only judge on what I've seen of them so far this season which is tonight plus maybe a few highlights not been overly impressed then either. But like I said hopefully it is just the occasion stifling it. Another reason why I don't actually like the play off system it often promotes drab games like this.
		
Click to expand...


both sides have got worse as the finish line has got closer to some degree (esp Brentford, Fulham have missed Mitrovic massively), hard to argue with a couple of additions either are any worse than several of the sides at the bottom of the prem, that said its been a pretty ordinary championship season standard wise


----------



## Wolf (Aug 4, 2020)

fundy said:



			both sides have got worse as the finish line has got closer to some degree (esp Brentford, Fulham have missed Mitrovic massively), hard to argue with a couple of additions either are any worse than several of the sides at the bottom of the prem, that said its been a pretty ordinary championship season standard wise
		
Click to expand...

Without a doubt the little I've seen of them they're certainly no worse than the likes of Palace, Villa etc.  But to be honest Liverpool aside its not been a vintage season for either of the 2 top divisions in English football.


----------



## Slime (Aug 4, 2020)

Did he mean that?
I think he did ........................................... great awareness!


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 4, 2020)

Great free kick.
Clueless keeper just cost his ream.
All after Mitrovic showed what he’s really renowned for......


----------



## Wolf (Aug 4, 2020)

It was the only sort of thing that was going to break the deadlock, but smart thinking and well executed. 

Shocking goalkeeping though.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 4, 2020)

fundy said:



			both sides are better than that, harsh to judge them based on the game that no one can afford to lose
		
Click to expand...

Exactly, look at us and Spurs in the CL final - crap game, but the semis were 4 great games.


----------



## Wolf (Aug 4, 2020)

Decent 2nd goal that and as poor as the game has been most of the night the better of the 2 teams has won it.


----------



## fundy (Aug 4, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Decent 2nd goal that and as poor as the game has been most of the night the better of the 2 teams has won it.
		
Click to expand...


annoyed i backed Fulham in 90 mins not to go up, Brentford really been scared of the finishing line the last month sadly and carried on in a similar vein tonight, even worse for them theyre now going to struggle to keep hold of 3 or 4 of their side so will be relying on decent recruitment on a shoestring budget again


----------



## TheDiablo (Aug 4, 2020)

fundy said:



			annoyed i backed Fulham in 90 mins not to go up, Brentford really been scared of the finishing line the last month sadly and carried on in a similar vein tonight, even worse for them theyre now going to struggle to keep hold of 3 or 4 of their side so will be relying on decent recruitment on a shoestring budget again
		
Click to expand...

I did the same, and not just because I'm a Fulham fan. Brentford have been exceptional all season but showed a lack of experience at key moments all season. 

Scott Parker is limited but ironically probably suited to a relegation scrap then a promotion push so hopeful of next season, especially with a lot of crap in the league. Owners will invest too, should learn from last time


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 4, 2020)

Get in. Stopped Brentford playing although we were poor ourselves going forward bar a clever free kick and a decent finish. Lets hope we learn the lessons of last time and don't make silly buys and play like 11 individuals instead of a team. Will be hard again. It'll be about winning the mini league around the bottom six clubs. That's to come but going to enjoy the rest of my week off especially at the club with the other Fulham fans and the beers are flowing.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 4, 2020)

Well that's one relegation team sorted for next season


----------



## 3offTheTee (Aug 4, 2020)

Congratulations Martin. So pleased for you.


----------



## fundy (Aug 5, 2020)

Disgusted to see Arsenal making 55 redundancies to normal staff whilst the likes of Ozil collects 350k a week for doing the square root of sweet fa! Or maybe we shouldnt be gifting 10m+ a year to Jorabchian and his agent pals for bringing us dodgy centre halfs (expect releasing him wouldve saved more than the wages of the 55 being made redundant!)

Expect we will be paying 200k a week to another ex Chelsea has been soon too

Football really does itself no favours some times


----------



## fundy (Aug 5, 2020)

It actually gets worse, seems theyre also getting rid of most of the scouting department under the guise of covid19 redundancies in favour of being in Jorabchian and his agents mates pockets even more going forward


----------



## fundy (Aug 6, 2020)

I hope Wolves qualify but lol at that VAR decision


----------



## fundy (Aug 10, 2020)

Good to see Uniteds best player this year "Soft Penalty" turn up again when it counts


----------



## Captainron (Aug 11, 2020)

fundy said:



			Good to see Uniteds best player this year "Soft Penalty" turn up again when it counts 

Click to expand...

They looked by far the better team and should have put Copenhagen away by 3 or 4 but that keeper had a dream day. If united somehow get a decent centre half and a striker they could get a heck of a lot closer to the top two.


----------



## Slime (Aug 11, 2020)

fundy said:



			Good to see Uniteds best player this year "Soft Penalty" turn up again when it counts 

Click to expand...

Your hurt is palpable. 
Just accept the fact that United's tricky forwards get fouled a lot in the oppositions' penalty area and I'm sure you'll feel better, not bitter.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 14, 2020)

Bayern v Barca. Barca aren't bothering with a defence and Bayern are mushing them. Frightening how poor and naive Barca are at the back.


----------



## Old Skier (Aug 14, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Bayern v Barca. Barca aren't bothering with a defence and Bayern are mushing them. Frightening how poor and naive Barca are at the back.
		
Click to expand...

8 goals, think they need a refresh


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 14, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			8 goals, think they need a refresh
		
Click to expand...

Jeez, that is some rebuild needed. Probably similar to Utd when Fergie packed in. The agents of the world will be buzzing with excitement right now at the activity coming.

How many seconds/minutes after the end do you reckon the coach had before getting his p45?


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 15, 2020)

Just seen the result, that is unbelievable! Don't feel quite as bad about Bayern humping us. I think most people believed they were past their peak... but are they really this good?


----------



## pendodave (Aug 15, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Just seen the result, that is unbelievable! Don't feel quite as bad about Bayern humping us. I think most people believed they were past their peak... but are they really this good?
		
Click to expand...

Unlike some teams (some close to your heart), bayern have been pretty good at adding a couple of players a year to keep their average age down.
Having said that, rather like psg, their track record at the pointy end has not been great recently.
Looks like being an interesting finale though, and whatever the views on RBL, good to see a different club in the mix.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 15, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Just seen the result, that is unbelievable! Don't feel quite as bad about Bayern humping us. I think most people believed they were past their peak... but are they really this good?
		
Click to expand...

They were fabulous going forward, shaky at the back. Don't underestimate how bad Barcelona were last night, second half in particular. 

I don't think you can fully judge Bayern based on last night but they are clearly purring nicely.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 15, 2020)

I'll be surprised if the manager survives this. Messi's face was a picture and as talented as he is he can't do it all and the defence looked like a pub team. That said Bayern were ruthless and had so much pace and penetration going forward and they are definitely playing some great football in the CL and Bundesliga


----------



## fundy (Aug 15, 2020)

Pep 10 mins from the tin tac here lol


----------



## Piece (Aug 15, 2020)

Pep got what he deserved with his team selection and tactics. Bizarre.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 15, 2020)

Piece said:



			Pep got what he deserved with his team selection and tactics. Bizarre.
		
Click to expand...

The last few years when it has come to the crux of it, he has tried to get TOO tactical at this stage and City have gone out every time. 

Trying to be too clever.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2020)

Never watched game and only seen the result, just seen Sterlings miss😂😂😂


----------



## Beezerk (Aug 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Never watched game and only seen the result, just seen Sterlings miss😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

True shocker, could be argued it cost them the game.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Aug 16, 2020)

KDB player of the season.
Can’t argue with that.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Aug 16, 2020)

Moussa Dembele
Former Celtic star wondering how many goals he could have scored if he had played 90 mins instead of 15.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			True shocker, could be argued it cost them the game.
		
Click to expand...

Apparently it was VAR 🤷‍♂️


----------



## fundy (Aug 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Apparently it was VAR 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...


pretty sure the keeper needs a chunk of the responsibility too

so Pep, Sterling, Ederson and VAR


----------



## 4LEX (Aug 16, 2020)

Pep has to be questioned here, both tactically and in the transfer market. Last night City were a little unlucky, a strange game. The scoreline flattered Lyon big time.

You can't dispute City have been brilliant to watch over the last 3-4 years but they're so one dimensional and without the cutting edge of Ageuro, they're really Arsenal from 2007-2012. Possession, nothing upfront, dodgy defence and rely on individual brilliance to win games.

For a manager to have spent that much on defenders and end up with the set they've got is shocking. Mendy, Walker, Stones, Laporte and Cancelo....£250m worth of nothing. Only Laporte or Walker could be considered half decent buys. He's not even going to replace Silva and the new winger is a 50/50 budget signing at best.

Throw in bizarre tactics and a failure in the CL. Ignore the tinpot stuff like League Cups and even the FA Cups, Pep was bought in to win the elite trophies. His domestic record is average (2/4) titles and his CL one is woeful. He's obviously a great manager but maybe he's going the same way as Mourinho - a one trick pony who has been found out? Does he really need a year off, freshen up and to come back with a new challenge?

City need to buy a world class CB, winger and striker or they'll go the same way next season. Dominate games, smash the crap sides but get found out when it counts. I really hoped they'd at least ace Bayern but now the CL looks so poor on paper. Roll on next season and please let Bayern win it and beat PSG by a large margin!


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2020)

fundy said:



			pretty sure the keeper needs a chunk of the responsibility too

so Pep, Sterling, Ederson and VAR 

Click to expand...

😁😁

I havent seen any of it except Sterlings miss but reading various pieces Pep's taking a bit of a beating. 

Seeing Pep's record In europe since the last time he won it with Barca, you could get it mixed up with Wenger's 🤭🤭


----------



## fundy (Aug 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			😁😁

I havent seen any of it except Sterlings miss but reading various pieces Pep's taking a bit of a beating.

Seeing Pep's record In europe since the last time he won it with Barca, you could get it mixed up with Wenger's 🤭🤭
		
Click to expand...


well he picked 7 defensive players, KDB, Sterling and Jesus and then refused to change when they went behind lol, players looked uncomfortable with the formation but ultimately a couple of individual errors from the keeper and Sterlings miss cost them massively in a game they still shouldve won

that said the way they played last night they wouldnt have come close to living with Bayern


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2020)

Brutal😂😂😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1294911713263915008


----------



## Beezerk (Aug 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Apparently it was VAR 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...


In fairness that VAR decision for offside/foul for their 2nd goal could have gone either way, the guy stepped over the ball and impacted on play IMO. Again though the outcome of these type of decisions seems to differ depending who is manning the monitor, no consistency and basically an individuals opinion on a given situation.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2020)

Just null and void the competition, it's a farce.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Aug 16, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1295032534703714309
😂😂😂


----------



## fundy (Aug 16, 2020)

good to see soft penalty turn up early to put man u in front


----------



## Slime (Aug 16, 2020)

United are the only English team left in Europe.
I trust you're all supporting them.


----------



## Slime (Aug 16, 2020)

fundy said:



			good to see *soft penalty* turn up early to put man u in front 

Click to expand...


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Aug 16, 2020)

Slime said:



			United are the only English team left in Europe.
I trust you're all supporting them. 

Click to expand...

You trust wrong then


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2020)

Slime said:



			United are the only English team left in Europe.
I trust you're all supporting them. 

Click to expand...

Yes, I'm  currently sitting here singing songs about liverpool 😁


----------



## SteveW86 (Aug 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes, I'm  currently shitting here singing songs about liverpool 😁
		
Click to expand...

I like to read the forum on the loo, but that’s too much detail 😂


----------



## fundy (Aug 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes, I'm  currently shitting here singing songs about liverpool 😁
		
Click to expand...


far too much info Stu haha


----------



## Slime (Aug 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes, I'm  currently shitting here singing songs about liverpool 😁
		
Click to expand...

I bet.
The two just seem to go together, a perfect match.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2020)

Ooops predictive text 🤨🤨😁😁😁

Just for clarification, I'm not on the bog 😂


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Ooops predictive text 🤨🤨😁😁😁

Just for clarification, I'm not on the bog 😂
		
Click to expand...

I'd be worried if you still were......


----------



## Slime (Aug 16, 2020)

Oh.


----------



## adam6177 (Aug 16, 2020)

Man utd not awarded enough penalties tonight it seems.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2020)

What’s wrong with these manchester clubs failing to get past a semi?😀🤣🤣


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2020)

If Untd defend like they did for the second goal ,it can’t be a surprise they are out!
Full back has to stop the cross , and CB just watch him slot it.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			What’s wrong with these manchester clubs failing to get past a semi?😀🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

Up against a decent team that don’t roll over City are very average.
Peps tactics are in Question.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 16, 2020)

The performance of all the English clubs in Europe calls into question the regular claims that the EPL is the best league in the world.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 16, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			The performance of all the English clubs in Europe calls into question the regular claims that the EPL is the best league in the world.
		
Click to expand...

Most leagues have a handful of good teams .
But average at best for the rest.
It’s a marketing thing.


----------



## Slime (Aug 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			What’s wrong with these manchester clubs failing to get past a semi?😀🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

At least United got to a semi ........................... City didn't!


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 16, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			The performance of all the English clubs in Europe calls into question the regular claims that the EPL is the best league in the world.
		
Click to expand...

I think your getting mixed up with the normal narrative.

I would argue that it is the most exciting, but if you are saying that it produces the best teams, its arguable.


----------



## Stuart_C (Aug 16, 2020)

Slime said:



			At least United got to a semi ........................... City didn't!
		
Click to expand...

How the mighty have fallen.


----------



## Slime (Aug 16, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			How the mighty have fallen.
		
Click to expand...

City were never mighty ............................................. just rich.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 17, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think your getting mixed up with the normal narrative.

I would argue that it is the most exciting, but if you are saying that it produces the best teams, its arguable.
		
Click to expand...

I'm certainly not saying that it produces the best teams. There is no evidence to support such a claim. 

As for the most exciting I would agree that is more of a possibility although it does, perhaps, depend upon your perspective. 

As a complete neutral who watches a lot of PL games I am finding an increasing number of matches somewhat less than riveting. Teams from the lower end of the table seem more willing than ever to effectively concede any chance of winning games against the top sides so long as they avoid getting a stuffing.


----------



## Slime (Aug 17, 2020)

I think the most exciting league is The Championship, by a distance.
Maybe not the best quality, but surely the most exciting.
On the very last day of last season, over 50% of the teams didn't know what league they'd be in next season!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 17, 2020)

Slime said:



			I think the most exciting league is The Championship, by a distance.
Maybe not the best quality, but surely the most exciting.
On the very last day of last season, over 50% of the teams didn't know what league they'd be in next season!
		
Click to expand...

Definitely. As my team proved getting humped 3-0 at home to lowly Barnsley, it is very unpredictable and every team capable of beating any other. Also, should your team have a decent season there is the thrill of the play-off the PL to look forward to and even though their stay may be short (as Fulhams was last time - hopefully not this) it is great to get there


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 17, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			I'm certainly not saying that it produces the best teams. There is no evidence to support such a claim.

As for the most exciting I would agree that is more of a possibility although it does, perhaps, depend upon your perspective.

As a complete neutral who watches a lot of PL games I am finding an increasing number of matches somewhat less than riveting. Teams from the lower end of the table seem more willing than ever to effectively concede any chance of winning games against the top sides so long as they avoid getting a stuffing.
		
Click to expand...

Yes to the end bit, but you can still have the results such as Watford stuffing us 3-0, City getting beat by Norwich 3-2 etc, as well.

If the premiership isnt the most exciting, generally, which is? 

I think the fact that ours is the most watched in the world, bears testament to that.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 17, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes to the end bit, but you can still have the results such as Watford stuffing us 3-0, City getting beat by Norwich 3-2 etc, as well.

If the premiership isnt the most exciting, generally, which is?

I think the fact that ours is the most watched in the world, bears testament to that.
		
Click to expand...

It's certainly the best marketed and I agree that there remains an element of unpredictability. 

I suppose that it depends on how you define exciting. If it's down to close competition throughout the league then I think I would have to agree with the previous suggestion of the Championship. 

Obviously the quality of football played is not as high but the excitement arising from the difficulty in forecasting results and overall outcome is definitely there.


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 17, 2020)

Last season's Premier League was crap but usually it's better than that.

I don't know if the Championship is more exciting but it's probably the least predictable, with all the teams seemingly very close to each other in terms of level - most seasons you could argue that 80% of the teams would be capable of winning promotion and the same number could potentially go down.


----------



## PieMan (Aug 17, 2020)

If you want an 'exciting' football experience, go and watch non-league! 

Used to go to Wealdstone a few years back and it was brilliant - great atmosphere.....and cheap as anything!! Fans right on top of the pitch, and home and away supporters actually swap ends at half-time so their teams are still attacking their end in the 2nd half!! 😂

Watched one game where the away support numbered 4.......and they'd travelled up on the team coach so they could have a few beers in the Wealdstone clubhouse afterwards!! Only football match I've been to where the home crowd have given the away support a round of applause!! 😂

And some of the games are exciting because the football isn't great from a technical perspective!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 17, 2020)

PieMan said:



			If you want an 'exciting' football experience, go and watch non-league!

Used to go to Wealdstone a few years back and it was brilliant - great atmosphere.....and cheap as anything!! Fans right on top of the pitch, and home and away supporters actually swap ends at half-time so their teams are still attacking their end in the 2nd half!! 😂

Watched one game where the away support numbered 4.......and they'd travelled up on the team coach so they could have a few beers in the Wealdstone clubhouse afterwards!! Only football match I've been to where the home crowd have given the away support a round of applause!! 😂

And some of the games are exciting because the football isn't great from a technical perspective!
		
Click to expand...

Many moons ago I got involved in Carshalton Athletic doing the gates etc and I agree it is a great experience. I've a few mates heavily involved with Kingstonian for well over 30 years and they will rarely if ever got to a PL or EFL game as they don't like it


----------



## 4LEX (Aug 17, 2020)

United pay the price for having Martial upfront again. The second half performance was very impressive but when your striker needs 4 chances to score 1 goal you're in big trouble.


----------



## 4LEX (Aug 17, 2020)

PieMan said:



			If you want an 'exciting' football experience, go and watch non-league!

Used to go to* Wealdstone* a few years back and it was brilliant - great atmosphere.....and cheap as anything!! Fans right on top of the pitch, and home and away supporters actually swap ends at half-time so their teams are still attacking their end in the 2nd half!! 😂
		
Click to expand...

You've got no fans


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 17, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			It's certainly the best marketed and I agree that there remains an element of unpredictability.

I suppose that it depends on how you define exciting. If it's down to close competition throughout the league then I think I would have to agree with the previous suggestion of the Championship.

Obviously the quality of football played is not as high but the excitement arising from the difficulty in forecasting results and overall outcome is definitely there.
		
Click to expand...

I'd have to agree with you, if you are talking unpredictability with regards to the championship, but obviously not the same technical standard. Without sounding condescending, i was talking the top/premier divisions throughout Europe, or the world.


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 17, 2020)

PieMan said:



			If you want an 'exciting' football experience, go and watch non-league!

Used to go to Wealdstone a few years back and it was brilliant - great atmosphere.....and cheap as anything!! Fans right on top of the pitch, and home and away supporters actually swap ends at half-time so their teams are still attacking their end in the 2nd half!! 😂

Watched one game where the away support numbered 4.......and they'd travelled up on the team coach so they could have a few beers in the Wealdstone clubhouse afterwards!! Only football match I've been to where the home crowd have given the away support a round of applause!! 😂

And some of the games are exciting because the football isn't great from a technical perspective!
		
Click to expand...


Since the 'Stones made the move into Grosvenor Vale I've made the occasional trip across town to watch them... If on field action is not keeping your interest there's always 'the raider' on hand to keep you entertained...


----------



## chrisd (Aug 17, 2020)

PieMan said:



			If you want an 'exciting' football experience, go and watch non-league! 

Used to go to Wealdstone a few years back and it was brilliant - great atmosphere.....and cheap as anything!! Fans right on top of the pitch, and home and away supporters actually swap ends at half-time so their teams are still attacking their end in the 2nd half!! 😂

Watched one game where the away support numbered 4.......and they'd travelled up on the team coach so they could have a few beers in the Wealdstone clubhouse afterwards!! Only football match I've been to where the home crowd have given the away support a round of applause!! 😂

And some of the games are exciting because the football isn't great from a technical perspective!
		
Click to expand...

I stopped watching my local "town" team when several of the players were guys I played with on a Sunday and I wasnt keen to pay to watch them. Back before that they had players signed from top league clubs who hadn't quite made it or were just seeing out their days before fully retiring - I've never been since, but I've seen Crystal Palace loads and I reckon I could score more than Benteke if they gave me a run out 😁😁


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 17, 2020)

chrisd said:



			I stopped watching my local "town" team when several of the players were guys I played with on a Sunday and I wasnt keen to pay to watch them. Back before that they had players signed from top league clubs who hadn't quite made it or were just seeing out their days before fully retiring - I've never been since, but I've seen Crystal Palace loads and I reckon I could score more than Benteke if they gave me a run out 😁😁
		
Click to expand...

With your dodgy body? You'd be more time in the physio than old sick note Anderton did at Spurs


----------



## chrisd (Aug 17, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			With your dodgy body? You'd be more time in the physio than old sick note Anderton did at Spurs
		
Click to expand...

Cheeky sod! All my bits have been replaced by lumps of metal, nobody would want to collide with me !


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 17, 2020)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'd have to agree with you, if you are talking unpredictability with regards to the championship, but obviously not the same technical standard. Without sounding condescending, i was talking the top/premier divisions throughout Europe, or the world.

Click to expand...

Looking at the top 5 leagues in Europe (England, France, Germany, Italy and Spain) I would say that none are particularly exciting as each is dominated by only one or two teams.

If viewed from a technical ability perspective then I would have to say that La Liga is perhaps top of the list.

The EPL still seems unable to attract the very,  very best players like M'bappe, Neymar, Messi, Ronaldo or Lewandoski.

Overall I still quite enjoy watching PL games but I think that there is a danger of the League and clubs believing the hype.


----------



## Papas1982 (Aug 17, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			Looking at the top 5 leagues in Europe (England, France, Germany, Italy and Spain) I would say that none are particularly exciting as each is dominated by only one or two teams.

If viewed from a technical ability perspective then I would have to say that La Liga is perhaps top of the list.

*The EPL still seems unable to attract the very,  very best players like M'bappe, Neymar, Messi, Ronaldo or Lewandoski.*

Overall I still quite enjoy watching PL games but I think that there is a danger of the League and clubs believing the hype.
		
Click to expand...

I agree to an extent. I do think that players that go to those other leagues know they're winning the title though which helps. 

In the last 20 years id imagine the PL has had more champions than the rest. Granted each season usually ends as a two horse race, but the horses change.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 17, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Cheeky sod! All my bits have been replaced by lumps of metal, nobody would want to collide with me !
		
Click to expand...

I've got a vision of some kind of Robocop figure in a pair of football shorts in my head now


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 17, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			Looking at the top 5 leagues in Europe (England, France, Germany, Italy and Spain) I would say that none are particularly exciting as each is dominated by only one or two teams.

If viewed from a technical ability perspective then I would have to say that La Liga is perhaps top of the list.

The EPL still seems *unable to attract the very,  very best players like M'bappe, Neymar, Messi, Ronaldo or Lewandoski*.

Overall I still quite enjoy watching PL games but I think that there is a danger of the League and clubs believing the hype.
		
Click to expand...

You can't tell me that M'bappe and Neymar went to PSG to test themselves in Ligue 1? Money talks and big players follow the money.

I think you are also being slightly unfair on players who would pretty much walk into any team in the world right now who play in England. De Bruyne, Aguero, Salah, Van Dijk, Mane, Allison spring immediately to mind.

Incidentally, I agree with your other points, as do most other posters it seems. The PL is probably the most exciting of the top leagues, would the Bundesliga challenge that?, but not actually the best league.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 17, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You can't tell me that M'bappe and Neymar went to PSG to test themselves in Ligue 1? Money talks and big players follow the money.

I think you are also being slightly unfair on players who would pretty much walk into any team in the world right now who play in England. De Bruyne, Aguero, Salah, Van Dijk, Mane, Allison spring immediately to mind.

Incidentally, I agree with your other points, as do most other posters it seems. The PL is probably the most exciting of the top leagues, would the Bundesliga challenge that?, but not actually the best league.
		
Click to expand...

Well there are two players in your list of PL players over whom I  might disagree with you but that's another discussion. 

Certainly the money is a massive factor in determining where players go but since the PL is the richest league in the world and one or two clubs could match PSG's financial offers there must be some reason why these sort of players shy away.


----------



## chrisd (Aug 17, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I've got a vision of some kind of Robocop figure in a pair of football shorts in my head now
		
Click to expand...

That'll be me 😁


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 17, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			Well there are two players in your list of PL players over whom I  might disagree with you but that's another discussion.

Certainly the money is a massive factor in determining where players go but since the PL is the richest league in the world and one or two clubs could match PSG's financial offers there must be some reason why these sort of players shy away.
		
Click to expand...

We're both of an age when we can remember when Italy could blow everyone out the water, except possibly Spain.

Barca and Real for me (and most) have always been the two world heavyweights, financially. Aided and abetted by UEFA allowing them to keep their hegemony on their self-negotiated TV deals at the expense of the rest of the Spanish league up until recently, but mainly based on their worldwide support base, anchored by South Americans footy fans. Tax fiddles and local council/government bail outs have also kept them at the top of their tree, as well.

I agree, us / man U / city / Chelsea still havent been able to afford the real "top,top" players, when at the right age and form for the last 30+ years, and have either seen the players mentioned being past their best, not reached their full potential yet or just not fancied by Real or Barca.

They are the the only two who can still tempt top Liverpool / Chelsea / Man U players when at their peak away, although would be interesting to see if they wanted a city player over the next few years, how they would get on.


----------



## Slime (Aug 17, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Many moons ago *I got involved in Carshalton Athletic *doing the gates etc and I agree it is a great experience. I've a few mates heavily involved with Kingstonian for well over 30 years and they will rarely if ever got to a PL or EFL game as they don't like it
		
Click to expand...

My dad used to play for them as well as Sutton Utd for a short while.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 17, 2020)

Slime said:



			My dad used to play for them as well as Sutton Utd for a short while.
		
Click to expand...

What period?


----------



## Slime (Aug 18, 2020)

It would have been in the 50's and maybe a touch in the 60's.
Not sure which club he played for first.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 18, 2020)

Slime said:



			It would have been in the 50's and maybe a touch in the 60's.
Not sure which club he played for first.
		
Click to expand...

Way before my time then but a funny coincidence


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 20, 2020)

Now this thread can properly begin . Opening weekend fixtures.

Let's hope we see the transfer market really begin now, it adds some fun to things.

*Saturday 12 September:*


Crystal Palace v Southampton
Fulham v Arsenal
Liverpool v Leeds United
Tottenham Hotspur v Everton
West Bromwich Albion v Leicester City
West Ham United v Newcastle United
*Monday 14 September:*


Brighton v Chelsea
Sheffield United v Wolves
*Fixtures to be rescheduled:*


Burnley v Manchester United
Manchester City v Aston Villa


----------



## Paperboy (Aug 20, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Now this thread can properly begin . Opening weekend fixtures.

Let's hope we see the transfer market really begin now, it adds some fun to things.

*Saturday 12 September:*


Crystal Palace v Southampton
Fulham v Arsenal
Liverpool v Leeds United
Tottenham Hotspur v Everton
West Bromwich Albion v Leicester City
West Ham United v Newcastle United
*Monday 14 September:*


Brighton v Chelsea
Sheffield United v Wolves
*Fixtures to be rescheduled:*


Burnley v Manchester United
Manchester City v Aston Villa


Click to expand...

Would have been ok in the right thread


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 20, 2020)

Paperboy said:



			Would have been ok in the right thread 

Click to expand...

 Can't believe I did that. Oh the shame


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 23, 2020)

It has taken a while but neymar has finally started to show why he is so unlikeable 😡.

Disappointing so far, badly needs a goal.


----------



## fundy (Aug 23, 2020)

get in Bayern, congrats to Herr Flick and his boys. Thought Alaba was superb tonight


----------



## Piece (Aug 24, 2020)

Neymar gave another performance to show why he isn't as good as he, and some people, think he is.


----------



## Kellfire (Aug 24, 2020)

Neymar is a superb player.


----------



## 4LEX (Aug 25, 2020)

Neymar is a superb player but also vastly overrated.

Wasting his peak years in a third rate league, coasting along. Miles away from the Balon D'or which is why he left Barcelona for in the first place..... He's now more associated with diving, crying and being totally unprofessional.

I hope he wakes up and rejoins Barcelona or gives the next 2-3 years total dedication at big club. Although in the current market and with PSG's wealth, theres no club that would take a chance on him.


----------



## fundy (Aug 25, 2020)

*Dan Roan* @danroan
3m


BREAKING: All 3 defendants in Harry Maguire trial found guilty on all charges. Sentences to come shortly


----------



## AmandaJR (Aug 25, 2020)

Manchester United captain Harry Maguire has been found guilty of repeated bodily harm, attempted bribery, violence against public employees and insult after his arrest on the Greek island of Mykonos. 

That's quite the rap sheet!


----------



## Jensen (Aug 25, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Way before my time then but a funny coincidence
		
Click to expand...

I used to work at the same insurance company as Tony Raines. He scored one of the goals for Sutton United in 1988 that knocked Coventry City out of the FA Cup


----------



## fundy (Aug 25, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Manchester United captain Harry Maguire has been found guilty of repeated bodily harm, attempted bribery, violence against public employees and insult after his arrest on the Greek island of Mykonos.

That's quite the rap sheet!
		
Click to expand...

1m

Harry Maguire handed a prison sentence of 21 months and 10 days. But this will be suspended because it is a first offence and charges were misdemeanours.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 25, 2020)

fundy said:



1m

Harry Maguire handed a prison sentence of 21 months and 10 days. But this will be suspended because it is a first offence and charges were misdemeanours.
		
Click to expand...

Shows how backwards Greece justice system is 

The officers seemed dodgy from the reports

Charges are not misdemeanours at all there big deal!! 

Backwards country


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 25, 2020)

fundy said:



*Dan Roan* @danroan
3m


BREAKING: All 3 defendants in Harry Maguire trial found guilty on all charges. Sentences to come shortly
		
Click to expand...

Well I think most ordinary folk would be going to jail for that!
Will be interesting to see what happens.p


fundy said:



1m

Harry Maguire handed a prison sentence of 21 months and 10 days. But this will be suspended because it is a first offence and charges were misdemeanours.
		
Click to expand...

i wouldn’t say assaulting a police officer and attempted bribery were misdemeanours.
He is a very lucky lad if that’s correct.
just said On BBC news somebody injected his sister with a drug .
That’s what started the trouble.
Very dodgy ,are the police protecting these gangs?
Think we need more info.


----------



## AmandaJR (Aug 25, 2020)

It all sounds very dodgy. Something went off but do wonder if the police clocked who was involved and then who knows...

Unseemly haste to hold the trial too and then lenient sentence.


----------



## fundy (Aug 25, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			It all sounds very dodgy. Something went off but do wonder if the police clocked who was involved and then who knows...

Unseemly haste to hold the trial too and then lenient sentence.
		
Click to expand...


not over yet, sounds like Maguire and United are looking for some help from VAR on appeal


----------



## chrisd (Aug 25, 2020)

Looks like Messi could be on his way to Selhurst Park 😁😁


----------



## fundy (Aug 25, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Looks like Messi could be on his way to Selhurst Park 😁😁
		
Click to expand...


but can he do it at Selhurst Park *away* on a cold November evening


----------



## chrisd (Aug 25, 2020)

fundy said:



			but can he do it at Selhurst Park *away* on a cold November evening 

Click to expand...

Straight swap for Zaha  😁


----------



## Pin-seeker (Aug 25, 2020)

Be interesting to see if anyone will top Messi’s current wages.
Read somewhere he’s on £600k+ 🤯


----------



## fundy (Aug 25, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Straight swap for Zaha  😁
		
Click to expand...


thats the 27th place ive heard Zahas going


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 25, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			It all sounds very dodgy. Something went off but do wonder if the police clocked who was involved and then who knows...

Unseemly haste to hold the trial too and then lenient sentence.
		
Click to expand...

Indeed. Sky Sports now saying some of these officer may have been plain clothed which would have further complicated the scene (would Maguire and the others mistaken them for local citizens), the prosecution case seemed put through with great haste with little time for the defence to react, and I'm doubtful to the ordinary holiday maker these would have been seen as misdemeanours. I am sure the appeal will go ahead and hopefully more details of what really went on (though I doubt it) come to light. I think yes he probably did something stupid and perhaps even broke Greek law. and yes he'll get different treatment for who he is but lets get it done openly and then if the 21 month sentence is just and fair enough and hopefully a lesson learned (although again I have my doubts)

Also pleased to see Southgate drop him from the squad and perhaps that should be the case until the appeal and the matter gets closed properly


----------



## 4LEX (Aug 25, 2020)

Maguire deserves credit for his actions. His behaviour is what you want from a leader and will generate respect inside football circles and the United and England dressing room.

Arrest, conviction and sentenced in 4 about days......what a joke. It really says it all about Greece and the Police involved.

Dodgy 'locals' cause trouble on an easy target, the bent Police behave disgracefully and get a bit of a hiding. Lied about bribes, assaults and did it for the attention. Stories to be sold soon no doubt. They knew the outcome before the hearing so they can make up whatever they like.

Harry Maguire is a down to earth northerner, theres no way he'd be going around saying 'Do you know who I am'.....


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Aug 25, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Maguire deserves credit for his actions. His behaviour is what you want from a leader and will generate respect inside football circles and the United and England dressing room.

Arrest, conviction and sentenced in 4 about days......what a joke. It really says it all about Greece and the Police involved.

Dodgy 'locals' cause trouble on an easy target, the bent Police behave disgracefully and get a bit of a hiding. Lied about bribes, assaults and did it for the attention. Stories to be sold soon no doubt. They knew the outcome before the hearing so they can make up whatever they like.

Harry Maguire is a down to earth northerner, theres no way he'd be going around saying 'Do you know who I am'.....

Click to expand...

Or perhaps the Greeks are fed up with boozy Brits causing mayhem...


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 25, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Or perhaps the Greeks are fed up with boozy Brits causing mayhem...
		
Click to expand...

Their entire economy is based on other nations spending tons of money there so I'm sure they don't mind


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Aug 25, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Their entire economy is based on other nations spending tons of money there so I'm sure they don't mind
		
Click to expand...

I think you'll find they like the tourists money, it's the bad behaivour and agro they bring as well they don't like.


----------



## 4LEX (Aug 25, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Or perhaps the Greeks are fed up with boozy Brits causing mayhem...
		
Click to expand...

I do think that's true aswell. Low paid Police seeing millionaire footballers with girls hanging off them and spending a years salary in an hour is going to cause resentment. It's human nature.

But without boozy Brits Greece would be even more screwed. They were desperate for us to go back despite of Covid.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Aug 25, 2020)

4LEX said:



			I do think that's true aswell. Low paid Police seeing millionaire footballers with girls hanging off them and spending a years salary in an hour is going to cause resentment. It's human nature.

But without boozy Brits Greece would be even more screwed. They were desperate for us to go back despite of Covid.
		
Click to expand...

So it's the Greeks fault then?


----------



## Orikoru (Aug 25, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Shows how backwards Greece justice system is

The officers seemed dodgy from the reports

Charges are not misdemeanours at all there big deal!!

Backwards country
		
Click to expand...




4LEX said:



			Maguire deserves credit for his actions. His behaviour is what you want from a leader and will generate respect inside football circles and the United and England dressing room.

Arrest, conviction and sentenced in 4 about days......what a joke. It really says it all about Greece and the Police involved.

Dodgy 'locals' cause trouble on an easy target, the bent Police behave disgracefully and get a bit of a hiding. Lied about bribes, assaults and did it for the attention. Stories to be sold soon no doubt. They knew the outcome before the hearing so they can make up whatever they like.

Harry Maguire is a down to earth northerner, theres no way he'd be going around saying 'Do you know who I am'.....

Click to expand...

It really feels like he's being stitched up. I heard the coppers were kicking him saying they were going to 'end his career'. The bribery charge seems like a joke, I wouldn't be surprised if they've taken a few bribes before. Corrupt as anything.


----------



## pauljames87 (Aug 25, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			It really feels like he's being stitched up. I heard the coppers were kicking him saying they were going to 'end his career'. The bribery charge seems like a joke, I wouldn't be surprised if they've taken a few bribes before. Corrupt as anything.
		
Click to expand...

Well they hAve ended his England career almost 

Good luck getting a visa for certain countries now


----------



## 4LEX (Aug 26, 2020)

He'll be back soon, these are just fodder games for England. The fact half of the squad have been getting smashed on holiday a few weeks before says it all.

Beneath the surface everyone has got his back. As for visa issues, only the US has a real issue with violent or drug related convictions. They'll be no meaningful games there.


----------



## 4LEX (Aug 26, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			It really feels like he's being stitched up. I heard the coppers were kicking him saying they were going to 'end his career'. The bribery charge seems like a joke, I wouldn't be surprised if they've taken a few bribes before. Corrupt as anything.
		
Click to expand...

It's a total stitch up. Harry Maguire is a top guy and would not attack randoms or Police, neither offer bribes. He did what anyone would've done.

If it was such a serious crime and warranted 21 months in jail why was the entire case over in 4 days?! I had an issue in Santorini a few years ago and I saw the lies first hand that so called authorities can conjure up.


----------



## AmandaJR (Aug 26, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Maguire deserves credit for his actions. His behaviour is what you want from a leader and will generate respect inside football circles and the United and England dressing room.

Arrest, conviction and sentenced in 4 about days......what a joke. It really says it all about Greece and the Police involved.

Dodgy 'locals' cause trouble on an easy target, the bent Police behave disgracefully and get a bit of a hiding. Lied about bribes, assaults and did it for the attention. Stories to be sold soon no doubt. They knew the outcome before the hearing so they can make up whatever they like.

Harry Maguire is a down to earth northerner, theres no way he'd be going around saying 'Do you know who I am'.....

Click to expand...

I thought of this post when I saw his Instagram post on the news. Down to earth Northerner


----------



## Grant85 (Aug 26, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Maguire deserves credit for his actions. His behaviour is what you want from a leader and will generate respect inside football circles and the United and England dressing room.

Arrest, conviction and sentenced in 4 about days......what a joke. It really says it all about Greece and the Police involved.

Dodgy 'locals' cause trouble on an easy target, the bent Police behave disgracefully and get a bit of a hiding. Lied about bribes, assaults and did it for the attention. Stories to be sold soon no doubt. They knew the outcome before the hearing so they can make up whatever they like.

Harry Maguire is a down to earth northerner, theres no way he'd be going around saying 'Do you know who I am'.....

Click to expand...

4 days is not all that unusual for district court type cases of affray, breach of the peace etc where there is no jury trial. I'm sure the process in the UK wouldn't be all that much different. 

I'm sure the chap who assaulted Jack Grealish was convicted the following week and was serving a few months of jail time 4 or 5 days after the incident. So the Midlands & the police are a joke there as well? 

21 months is a huge sentence, but not when you consider it is being used as a disincentive for 1st offenders.

And to say Harry Maguire isn't that type of person, it wouldn't be the 1st time a supposedly level headed guy had a few drinks and got into bother with people he would usually take nothing to do with.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Aug 26, 2020)

Grant85 said:



			4 days is not all that unusual for district court type cases of affray, breach of the peace etc where there is no jury trial. I'm sure the process in the UK wouldn't be all that much different.

I'm sure the chap who assaulted Jack Grealish was convicted the following week and was serving a few months of jail time 4 or 5 days after the incident. So the Midlands & the police are a joke there as well?

21 months is a huge sentence, but not when you consider it is being used as a disincentive for 1st offenders.

And to say Harry Maguire isn't that type of person, it wouldn't be the 1st time a supposedly level headed guy had a few drinks and got into bother with people he would usually take nothing to do with.
		
Click to expand...

Shhhhhhh...you know all Brits  on holiday are totally innocent of everything they are charged and or convicted of.

I just don't get why this "level headed Northerner" has forgotten he is an England international player and doesn't act as the role model and ambassador he is and represents. But then perhaps his immediate defence by some just shows how accepting we are of the terrible behaivour of English idiots abroad.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 26, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Shhhhhhh...you know all Brits  on holiday are totally innocent of everything they are charged and or convicted of.

I just don't get why this "level headed Northerner" has forgotten he is an England international player and doesn't act as the role model and ambassador he is and represents. But then perhaps his immediate defence by some just shows how accepting we are of the terrible behaivour of English idiots abroad.
		
Click to expand...

Or maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle?

He alleged his sister had been injected with a rape drug, if that’s what he believed then I can understand his or anyone else’s anger.

How far would any of us go if that’s what we believed had happened to a member of our family?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 26, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Or maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle?

He alleged his sister had been injected with a rape drug, if that’s what he believed then I can understand his or anyone else’s anger.

How far would any of us go if that’s what we believed had happened to a member of our family?
		
Click to expand...

Yes I agree with this.
We only know what the press are telling us.
But they leave a lot out that sometimes sets the agenda.
It isn’t very complementary of the Greek police or justice dept though.
If that was a ordinary bloke on holiday with no access to top quality ( Man Utd) legal team he would be in jail imo.
But on the other hand he would not be targeted by them for being famous.
Bit of a mess on both sides.


----------



## USER1999 (Aug 26, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			Be interesting to see if anyone will top Messi’s current wages.
Read somewhere he’s on £600k+ 🤯
		
Click to expand...

I think that is after tax, so gross, nearer 1m per week.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Aug 26, 2020)

Think Klopp might ask him if he fancies playing for us.
Hope so , but can’t see it.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 26, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Think Klopp might ask him if he fancies playing for us.
Hope so , but can’t see it.
		
Click to expand...

Would be great to see but I think City or Inter are favourites. Not sure PSG and Neymar will work


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Aug 26, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Would be great to see but I think City or Inter are favourites. Not sure PSG and Neymar will work
		
Click to expand...

I think PSG will get him because of Neymar.  I can't see him in the PL, far to fast a league for him to survive and showcase his stuff. Remember how good he looked at Anfield?


----------



## Beezerk (Aug 26, 2020)

Imagine him at Juve with Ronaldo 🙉


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Aug 27, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I think PSG will get him because of Neymar.  I can't see him in the PL, far to fast a league for him to survive and showcase his stuff. Remember how good he looked at Anfield?

Click to expand...

I was under the impression Messi and Neymar had had a falling out as Neymar was tired of playing second fiddle


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Aug 27, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I think PSG will get him because of Neymar.  I can't see him in the PL, far to fast a league for him to survive and showcase his stuff. Remember how good he looked at Anfield?

Click to expand...

He didn't struggle too much in the first leg.


----------

