# Combined Handicap



## Haydn (Jul 14, 2009)

HI, new to the forum. 
I have a question that I hope somebody can help with. I played in a greensome pairs competition last week. My handicap is 18 and my playing partner plays off 22, the rules were that the combined handicap should be 50% of the two handicaps but to a max of 18. We played of 18 and wrote this on the card.
Had a call from the secretary over the weekend to say that although our nett 65 was the best score we were disqualified for not entering our individual handicaps on the card. We had just written 18 in the handicap box as this was our combined shot allowance. I thought that the individual handicaps were not relevant as apart from the drives only one ball is used in that format.


Can any body advise on the ruling here

Cheers


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## RGDave (Jul 14, 2009)

What an interesting one. 

I'm not great with all these things, I tend to just take advice before filling in the card.

i.m.o.

18 + 22 means a combined of 20. If you were playing off 50%, then your h'cap allowance on the card should have read 10.

There are some games when you'd get 20 shots....but not this by the sounds of it.

If you wrote 18 and it should have been 10, then unfortunately, you wrote the wrong number in, even if you did so in good faith.

50% of your combined would be 20, of course, but as you take the best drive, full h'cap would be unusual.

My best guess is it should have been 50% of "combined aggregate"

Good post.


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## Haydn (Jul 14, 2009)

HI thanks for reply. The problem isn't with the figure, 18 was the correct handicap-50% of 40 is 20 but 18 was the max.
We were disqualified for not entering our individual hcaps on the card, we just put the 18 on.


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## RGDave (Jul 14, 2009)

OK, I'm with you now. So you got 20 shots but the max was 18.

I can only guess (again!) therefore _if_ your cards are the same as mine, you'd need to write your 1) name 2) your h'cap and then 3) only "18" in the Strokes received box.

Oh, and the comp name, the date, maybe the time and the tees used......nightmare

All sounds a bit tricky....bad luck....


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## RGDave (Jul 14, 2009)

PS....are you Hay-den or High-den.....cricketer or composer?

PPS...I've just pulled a card out....I'm not sure I'd know what to do with the card if someone handed me one....would I just fill in player A as your score?


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## Haydn (Jul 14, 2009)

Hi, I am Haydn as per the cricketer, live on the Welsh Borders hence the spelling. The card was used for both players, one name in A and another in B, .

a lot of golfers that I have spoken to think that we were very hard done by as the individual handicaps were not relevant for that comp


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## backwoodsman (Jul 14, 2009)

Here's an original thought...

Why not ask the secretary what you _ should_ have written on the card. And why?


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## Haydn (Jul 14, 2009)

He told me that I should have written my individual handicap, and so should have my partner. My argument is that it was a pairs event so I wrote the handicap that we were playing off as a pair.


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## viscount17 (Jul 15, 2009)

seems harsh, especially as not only are you off 50% handicaps, you're also limited to 18.

so who won, not one of his mates by any chance?


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## bobmac (Jul 15, 2009)

Absolutely pathetic in my opinion.
When I used to work ina pro shop, it was my job to fill in score cards with names, handicaps and shots received etc.
I would understand if you had put down the wrong scores or nobody had signed the card but that is just petty minded golf club committee police who are more important than 'normal members' and like to show off how clever they are.
You say it was the secretary who called you. How did he get involved?


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## USER1999 (Jul 15, 2009)

My view is it is the golfers responsibility to write down the correct score, but it is the administrators responsibilty to administer the handicap. As long as your name is on the card, and it is your card, then they can't d/q you.


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## bobmac (Jul 15, 2009)

Just checked the decisions of the rules 6/2b and it clearly states both handicaps should be recorded by the players, otherwise DQ
Daft.
Mark Roe and Jesper Parnevik...daft


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## Earl (Jul 15, 2009)

You have to write your handicaps down because you can can be DQ for playing off wrong handicap. It comes back to the rules book once more, it has been mentioned before you need to read them through.


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## JustOne (Jul 15, 2009)

Absolutely pathetic in my opinion.
When I used to work ina pro shop, it was my job to fill in score cards with names, handicaps and shots received etc.
I would understand if you had put down the wrong scores or nobody had signed the card but that is just *petty minded golf club committee police who are more important than 'normal members' and like to show off how clever they are.*

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  You alright Bob? Want me to phone an ambulance?


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## StuartD (Jul 15, 2009)

Just checked the decisions of the rules 6/2b and it clearly states both handicaps should be recorded by the players, otherwise DQ
Daft.
Mark Roe and Jesper Parnevik...daft 

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Looking at the rule book i think Bob is correct..but don't think its that clear tbh

Rule 6/2b. Stroke Play
In any round of a handicap competition, the competitor must ensure that his handicap is recorded on his score card before it is returned to the Committee. If no handicap is recorded on his score card before it is returned (Rule 6-6b), or if the recorded handicap is higher than that to
which he is entitled and this affects the number of strokes received, he is disqualified from the handicap competition; otherwise, the score stands.

Definition of Competitor from the rule book is

A â€œcompetitorâ€™â€™ is a player in a stroke play competition. A â€œfellowcompetitorâ€™â€™ is any person with whom the competitor plays. Neither is partner of the other.
In stroke play foursome and four-ball competitions, where the context so admits, the word â€œcompetitorâ€™â€™ or â€œfellow-competitorâ€™â€™ includes his partner.


Very tough on you in my opinion


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## funkyfred (Jul 15, 2009)

In a effort not to cause any more problems and I'm not really sure about these kind of things, but isn't Greensomes 3/8 of the combined h/c total?


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## freddielong (Jul 15, 2009)

In a effort not to cause any more problems and I'm not really sure about these kind of things, but isn't Greensomes 3/8 of the combined h/c total?
		
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Comittee can set handicap allowance as they wish - this is a tough one but it is a lesson learned for the future, it is in the rule book so it is your own fault and DQ was the only option. I don't think enough people know the rules nowdays, if you had taken the time to read the book you would not be in this position.


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## CrapHacker (Jul 15, 2009)

I don't think enough people know the rules nowdays, if you had taken the time to read the book you would not be in this position.
		
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Dunno about that.  It's only a little book, but there's a lot of stuff in it.

Take this rule.  I've just sat down and read it three times to make sure it sticks.  If I had the whole book in front of me, and I was trying to learn the rules, to do that would take me months and maybe a brain transplant or two.

In reality I'd scan the book and get a gist of what's what, and learn the depth over time.

This rule wouldn't have hit my radar as being mega important.

I can see it's what the rules say, but I'm with Bob on this one.


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## freddielong (Jul 15, 2009)

I don't think enough people know the rules nowdays, if you had taken the time to read the book you would not be in this position.
		
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Dunno about that.  It's only a little book, but there's a lot of stuff in it.

Take this rule.  I've just sat down and read it three times to make sure it sticks.  If I had the whole book in front of me, and I was trying to learn the rules, to do that would take me months and maybe a brain transplant or two.

In reality I'd scan the book and get a gist of what's what, and learn the depth over time.

This rule wouldn't have hit my radar as being mega important.

I can see it's what the rules say, but I'm with Bob on this one.
		
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I know what you are saying (not interesting) but if they had looked at the little book, or even asked someone what they needed to do before they handed in their card, they would have won and not been DQ'd, by not knowing it is only you that misses out.


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## bobmac (Jul 15, 2009)

It's in the decisions book, not the rule book.
But surely common sense should prevail.
What advantage have they gained? None.
Did they play the correct course? Yes
Did they play to the correct handicap? Yes
Did they have the best score? Yes
Did they win? No. 
What a great way to encourage people to enter more competitions.


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## freddielong (Jul 15, 2009)

6-2. Handicap
â€¢ b. Stroke Play
In any round of a handicap competition, the competitor must ensure that his handicap is recorded on his score card before it is returned to the Committee. If no handicap is recorded on his score card before it is returned (Rule 6-6b), or if the recorded handicap is higher than that to which he is entitled and this affects the number of strokes received, he is disqualified from the handicap competition; otherwise, the score stands. 

sorry bobmac it is rule 6-2.b they have not put their handicap on the card, all they have marked is the shots received. It is one of the basics, one of the first things you do and need to learn, so DQ'd only option and they wont make the same mistake again.


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## bobmac (Jul 15, 2009)

Sorry,
What I meant to say was it is more clear in the decisions book
 In any round of a handicap stroke play competition, it is the responsibility of the competitor to ensure that his handicap is recorded on his score card before it is returned to the Committee (Rule 6-2b). 
The word â€œcompetitorâ€ includes his partner in a stroke play foursome competition â€“ see Definition of â€œCompetitorâ€. Therefore, the individual handicaps of A and B should have been recorded on the score card. As only the combined handicap allowance was recorded, A and B were correctly disqualified. 

Still very petty in my opinion.

The reason I get angry at this sort of thing is the inconsistency.
At my home club, I mean a club near me, we, I mean they had their Open on Saturday.
The captain handed in his card unsigned by neither marker nor player.
He still smiled when he accepted his 2nd prize.
Then this couple do something very trivial and get DQ'd


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## viscount17 (Jul 15, 2009)

6-2. Handicap
â€¢ b. Stroke Play
In any round of a handicap competition, the competitor must ensure that his handicap is recorded on his score card before it is returned to the Committee. If no handicap is recorded on his score card before it is returned (Rule 6-6b), or if the recorded handicap is higher than that to which he is entitled <u>and this affects the number of strokes received</u>, he is disqualified from the handicap competition; otherwise, the score stands.
		
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as an aside, I always thought that if you declared a wrong handicap of any sort you were dq'd but apparently not so - only if you gain advantage.


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## freddielong (Jul 15, 2009)

Still very petty in my opinion.

The reason I get angry at this sort of thing is the inconsistency.
At my home club, I mean a club near me, we, I mean they had their Open on Saturday.
The captain handed in his card unsigned by neither marker nor player.
He still smiled when he accepted his 2nd prize.
Then this couple do something very trivial and get DQ'd 

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I do agree that it is harsh but it is in the rules which seem ok to me when everyone is playing to them, this obviously isn't the case in the situation you pointed out, and it does make the OP seem very unfair.


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## freddielong (Jul 15, 2009)

6-2. Handicap
â€¢ b. Stroke Play
In any round of a handicap competition, the competitor must ensure that his handicap is recorded on his score card before it is returned to the Committee. If no handicap is recorded on his score card before it is returned (Rule 6-6b), or if the recorded handicap is higher than that to which he is entitled <u>and this affects the number of strokes received</u>, he is disqualified from the handicap competition; otherwise, the score stands.
		
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as an aside, I always thought that if you declared a wrong handicap of any sort you were dq'd but apparently not so - only if you gain advantage.
		
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Similar to the wrong score rule you are only DQ'd if the error is in your favour


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## StuartD (Jul 15, 2009)

I am with Bobmac on this one. I still think itâ€™s rather petty. Their handicap (strokes allowed whatever you want to call it) was calculated correctly so really not a problem in my opinion

When playing two silloth invitations (my club and one away from home) recently my handicap and my playing partners were not on the card. The assistants asked for the handicaps, worked out the bizarre calculation for this format and stuck the strokes received in the handicap box. No sign of any individual handicaps on our card or our playing partners cards both times. As the assistants done all the cards (I assume they were all the same) should everybody be disqualified and all prizes returned.

As someone who has been playing competitively for 25 (with a small break) I must admit that I did not think having the handicaps was necessary as long as your calculation was correct. I also think the ruling could be clearer in the rule book as definition of Competitor has to be found and also some have said it took 2 or 3 reads to get it clear.I also think that some clubs cards could be clearer with boxes for both handicap and strokes allowed. Ours just has one box marked handicap

I must also add that the â€œholier than thouâ€, â€œyou cheatedâ€, â€œitâ€™s obviousâ€, â€œyou should know thatâ€ attitude by some on here regarding rule queries by new golfers is not very helpful


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## freddielong (Jul 15, 2009)

I am with Bobmac on this one. I still think itâ€™s rather petty. Their handicap (strokes allowed whatever you want to call it) was calculated correctly so really not a problem in my opinion
		
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I guess that the point is, how does the competition secretary know the shots have been calculated correctly if the handicaps are not on the card.


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## Haydn (Jul 15, 2009)

Many thanks for all of your replies. It seems that the general concensious is that we were wrong not to have entered our individual handicaps.
 My main point in my letter to the competition secretary that contacted me was that I felt that the decision to disqulify us for this was harsh, we were playing in our first ever pairs event. I also made the point that this did nothing to enhance the reputation of the game our indeeed our club.
I have to work to procedures in my job and if I fail I get penealised but where is the example of how to fill in a card properly for a pairs event posted at the club?? If you don't know the procedures, how do we know how to follow them


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## freddielong (Jul 15, 2009)

I have to work to procedures in my job and if I fail I get penealised but where is the example of how to fill in a card properly for a pairs event posted at the club?? If you don't know the procedures, how do we know how to follow them
		
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If you didn't know the procedures at work would you not look them up or ask, sorry I am not getting at you but you made a mistake move on, you will know for next time.


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## StuartD (Jul 15, 2009)

I am with Bobmac on this one. I still think itâ€™s rather petty. Their handicap (strokes allowed whatever you want to call it) was calculated correctly so really not a problem in my opinion
		
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I guess that the point is, how does the competition secretary know the shots have been calculated correctly if the handicaps are not on the card.
		
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The competition sec will have the handicap list/database at hand. A quick check of hadicaps to see if calculation is correct, yes it is, therefore tournament winners, not a problem.

I am sure the competion secretary would have checked the prizewinners individual handicaps were correct and also the strokes allowed were correct before announcing the winners. This would be routine for every competition. So just to dq them for not writing their individual handicaps on the card is very harsh. Maybe strictly correct by the rule but still very harsh.

Also they had "won" the comp playing of 18 instead of 20, the competition sec might be paying closer attention to their h/caps now anyway


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## freddielong (Jul 15, 2009)

I am with Bobmac on this one. I still think itâ€™s rather petty. Their handicap (strokes allowed whatever you want to call it) was calculated correctly so really not a problem in my opinion
		
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I guess that the point is, how does the competition secretary know the shots have been calculated correctly if the handicaps are not on the card.
		
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The competition sec will have the handicap list/database at hand. A quick check of hadicaps to see if calculation is correct, yes it is, therefore tournament winners, not a problem.
		
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Not if it was an open competion - Look the rules are there for a reason, every club gives out rule books for free, if you cannot be bothered to look at it occasionly and maybe abide by them, then you deserve to be DQ'd every week. Its not as if they are hard to find or in a secret code and I bet if you ask the comp sec he will help if you are not sure, move on and learn from it.


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## viscount17 (Jul 15, 2009)

I am with Bobmac on this one. I still think itâ€™s rather petty. Their handicap (strokes allowed whatever you want to call it) was calculated correctly so really not a problem in my opinion
		
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I guess that the point is, how does the competition secretary know the shots have been calculated correctly if the handicaps are not on the card.
		
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The competition sec will have the handicap list/database at hand. A quick check of hadicaps to see if calculation is correct, yes it is, therefore tournament winners, not a problem.
		
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Not if it was an open competion - Look the rules are there for a reason, *every club gives out rule books for free,* if you cannot be bothered to look at it occasionly and maybe abide by them, then you deserve to be DQ'd every week. Its not as if they are hard to find or in a secret code and I bet if you ask the comp sec he will help if you are not sure, move on and learn from it.
		
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no they don't


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## freddielong (Jul 15, 2009)

I am with Bobmac on this one. I still think itâ€™s rather petty. Their handicap (strokes allowed whatever you want to call it) was calculated correctly so really not a problem in my opinion
		
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I guess that the point is, how does the competition secretary know the shots have been calculated correctly if the handicaps are not on the card.
		
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The competition sec will have the handicap list/database at hand. A quick check of hadicaps to see if calculation is correct, yes it is, therefore tournament winners, not a problem.
		
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Not if it was an open competion - Look the rules are there for a reason, *every club gives out rule books for free,* if you cannot be bothered to look at it occasionly and maybe abide by them, then you deserve to be DQ'd every week. Its not as if they are hard to find or in a secret code and I bet if you ask the comp sec he will help if you are not sure, move on and learn from it.
		
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no they don't
		
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Every club I have been a member of do they receive them free when ever there is an update have you asked them if they have one


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## viscount17 (Jul 16, 2009)

no, and never seen it advertised that they have them, probably only a limited number, first come-first served, but I have one anyway.


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## StuartD (Jul 16, 2009)

Not if it was an open competion - Look the rules are there for a reason, every club gives out rule books for free, if you cannot be bothered to look at it occasionly and maybe abide by them, then you deserve to be DQ'd every week. Its not as if they are hard to find or in a secret code and I bet if you ask the comp sec he will help if you are not sure, move on and learn from it.
		
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In an open competition a handicap certificate should be produced. I know some clubs now overlook this (mine doesnâ€™t). If a handicap cert is not produced how does a comp sec know a visitor has played to the correct H/cap. A comp sec here is more negligent than the op here in my opinion.

While pointing out I was unsure about the ruling and had to look it up I did state that dq was required by the rules in my op. All I have tried to do is argue a case that this rule is a bit OTT (a la parnevik and roe) and  I have been labelled as some one who canâ€™t be bothered with or  play by the rules and deserves a DQ every week. Ah well better score my name out for Saturday then.   

On the rule book front. Clubs can ask for â€œa numberâ€ of rule books from the R&A. We do so at our club and they are given out to new members first. Maybe the original  posters club should do this in an effort to avoid this unfortunate situation.


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