# Clocks go back to GMT tonight!



## delc (Oct 25, 2014)

We put our clocks back one hour to GMT tonight. Why do we do this? It just inflicts long dark evenings on us, with increased energy costs and greater accident risks on the roads! Why don't we just stay on BST all year round? There is no good reason not to do this!


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## Imurg (Oct 25, 2014)

Excellent - means I'll wake up at 4 am instead of 5am


Gonna be a long day!


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## SaintHacker (Oct 25, 2014)

Wasn't there a movement a while back to actually move to GMT+2 all year round? Not sure what happened to it as a lot of people seemed to think it was a good idea.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2014)

It means it's lighter in the morning as kids are going to school and still light when they go home


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## SaintHacker (Oct 25, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Excellent - means I'll wake up at 4 am instead of 5am


Gonna be a long day!
		
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Look on the brightside, its the one weekend a year when you wake up with the usual 'oh my God I'm due on the tee in an hour' panic, and then realise you've got 2:thup:


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## c1973 (Oct 25, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It means it's lighter in the morning as kids are going to school and still light when they go home
		
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Good, so mum can see them get into the car for the lift home without the need of a torch.


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## c1973 (Oct 25, 2014)

http://www.rmg.co.uk/explore/astron...ring-forward-100-years-of-british-summer-time


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## delc (Oct 25, 2014)

If you work 9-5 (GMT) you start work 3 hours before the sun reaches its highest point in the sky, but don't finish until 5 hours afterwards. Therefore many working people see no daylight at all after leaving work in the middle of Winter, which is particularly depressing, and dangerous for the journey home. If they worked 8-4, or we stayed on BST all year round, at least they would see a glimmer of daylight at each end of the working day. You can't change the small number of daylight hours in Winter, but you can at least try to make the best use of them!


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2014)

Is it really that much of a problem ? 

Don't you think it's more important that our children are more safe going to to school in daylight and coming home in daylight ?

Or would you rather they walked to school in poor lighting ?


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## Tab373 (Oct 25, 2014)

Not great for me as a 12 hour night shift turns into a 13 hours shift &#128542;


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## delc (Oct 25, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is it really that much of a problem ? 

Don't you think it's more important that our children are more safe going to to school in daylight and coming home in daylight ?

Or would you rather they walked to school in poor lighting ?
		
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In the more civilised parts of the UK it is always light by 9am when the kids go to school in their mothers' Chelsea Tractors, and I think they finish at about 3.30 pm when it also still light. Do any kids walk to school these days?  :mmm:


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2014)

delc said:



			In the more civilised parts of the UK it is always light by 9am when the kids go to school in their mothers' Chelsea Tractors, and I think they finish at about 3.30 pm when it also still light. Do any kids walk to school these days?  :mmFC
		
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Seen plenty walking to school from about 7:30 so I would prefer them to be nice and safe and walk in daylight - more priority over a businessman who wants to see the light


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## SocketRocket (Oct 25, 2014)

I think the original reason was to assist Farmers to have a lighter morning to get their Cows in the sheds for milking.   As we dont have many dairy farms left then its not so relevant now. Regarding kids going to school: Why are they in danger going to School if it's dark? Wont help kids in the North, its dark most of the day there.


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## davemc1 (Oct 25, 2014)

No idea if I should set my phone before bed, thinking these modern contraptions probably do it automatically. God knows what time I'm getting up tomorrow...


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## Fish (Oct 26, 2014)

Seems the forum doesn't or can't update automatically 

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:41.


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## Imurg (Oct 26, 2014)

One advantage...
Awake as predicted just after 4....complete set of irons regripped by 5.30...
Insomnia rulezzzzzz


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## Stuey01 (Oct 26, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			I think the original reason was to assist Farmers to have a lighter morning to get their Cows in the sheds for milking.
		
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This is oft quoted but doesn't make sense does it? The cows don't know what time it is... You want to milk them in the light just do it an hour later...


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## Wayman (Oct 26, 2014)

I've been up since 3:30 :/

Going to be a looooooong day


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## pbrown7582 (Oct 26, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seen plenty walking to school from about 7:30 so I would prefer them to be nice and safe and walk in daylight - more priority over a businessman who wants to see the light
		
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:thup:


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## Fish (Oct 26, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seen plenty walking to school from about 7:30 so I would prefer them to be nice and safe and walk in daylight - more priority over a businessman who wants to see the light
		
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Just buy them Hi-Vis vests and stop pandering over them, if they weren't all looking at their mobiles texting and looking where they should be walking it shouldn't be an issue, not sure about the stats of cars mounting pavements hitting school children walking in the dark, but hey, sure you'll be googling it  by now, maybe if they all used proper zebra crossings also 

Now, don't get me going on cyclist (and pedestrians) with earphones in listening to music/radio and coming on & off the pavements totally absorbed in what their listening to rather than being aware of what's around them, pedestrians are part of the highway code also, you know :smirk:


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2014)

Fish said:



			Just buy them Hi-Vis vests and stop pandering over them, if they weren't all looking at their mobiles texting and looking where they should be walking it shouldn't be an issue, not sure about the stats of cars mounting pavements hitting school children walking in the dark, but hey, sure you'll be googling it  by now, maybe if they all used proper zebra crossings also 

Now, don't get me going on cyclist (and pedestrians) with earphones in listening to music/radio and coming on & off the pavements totally absorbed in what their listening to rather than being aware of what's around them, pedestrians are part of the highway code also, you know :smirk:
		
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Kids run out in the road - it happens - they are kids , they chase the football or cat into the road without thinking beacuse they are kids - so would rather if that is going to happen it is in broad daylight so the driver can see them a bit better.

Its more than just them getting hit by cars whilst walking to school - makes it a damn sight harder for a kid to be snatched whilst in broad daylight and making kids walk to school in dark will just add more cars to the road whilst mothers wont want their kids to walk to school in the dark so will drive them instead


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## Fish (Oct 26, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Kids run out in the road - it happens - they are kids , they chase the football or cat into the road without thinking beacuse they are kids - so would rather if that is going to happen it is in broad daylight so the driver can see them a bit better.

Its more than just them getting hit by cars whilst walking to school - makes it a damn sight harder for a kid to be snatched whilst in broad daylight and making kids walk to school in dark will just add more cars to the road whilst mothers wont want their kids to walk to school in the dark so will drive them instead
		
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So your kids are allowed to kick a football on the pavement next to busy roads, hmm, if "kids" are that immature they also chase cats into the road maybe their too young to be on their own and should be chaperoned? 

Maybe lessons on road safety and the responsibilities of pedestrians as per the highways code act would be better served being taught in school as early as possible and continually.

As for kids being snatched, do we live in that fear, seriously, are kids (age dependent) all in before it gets dark when out playing after school and at weekends, are they only allowed to play in the garden, how much do you want to restrict children and wrap them in cotton wool, walk to school in groups, wear bright colours, be aware of the dangers (traffic) around you, they need to learn not be pampered too much,IMO. 

and.. by your own description (Sterling), I assume "kids" are all up to the age of 16/17 :smirk:


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2014)

Fish said:



			So your kids are allowed to kick a football on the pavement next to busy roads, hmm, if "kids" are that immature they also chase cats into the road maybe their too young to be on their own and should be chaperoned? 

Maybe lessons on road safety and the responsibilities of pedestrians as per the highways code act would be better served being taught in school as early as possible and continually.

As for kids being snatched, do we live in that fear, seriously, are kids (age dependent) all in before it gets dark when out playing after school and at weekends, are they only allowed to play in the garden, how much do you want to restrict children and wrap them in cotton wool, walk to school in groups, wear bright colours, be aware of the dangers (traffic) around you, they need to learn not be pampered too much,IMO. 

and.. by your own description (Sterling), I assume "kids" are all up to the age of 16/17 :smirk:
		
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All this because the clocks go back to allow more daylight in the morning ?

If only all kids were so discliplined - maybe they should be marched up to school and any straying will result in punishment - lets regiment them and ensure they dont act like - ummm kids !


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## richy (Oct 26, 2014)

Fish said:



			So your kids are allowed to kick a football on the pavement next to busy roads, hmm, if "kids" are that immature they also chase cats into the road maybe their too young to be on their own and should be chaperoned? 

Maybe lessons on road safety and the responsibilities of pedestrians as per the highways code act would be better served being taught in school as early as possible and continually.

As for kids being snatched, do we live in that fear, seriously, are kids (age dependent) all in before it gets dark when out playing after school and at weekends, are they only allowed to play in the garden, how much do you want to restrict children and wrap them in cotton wool, walk to school in groups, wear bright colours, be aware of the dangers (traffic) around you, they need to learn not be pampered too much,IMO. 

and.. by your own description (Sterling), I assume "kids" are all up to the age of 16/17 :smirk:
		
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How many kids do you have?


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## delc (Oct 26, 2014)

It was light before 6.30am this morning, an hour and half before I needed to get up, but it will be dark just after 5pm. GMT is just Daylight Robbery as far as I am concerned!  :angry:


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2014)

delc said:



			It was light before 6.30am this morning, an hour and half before I needed to get up, but it will be dark just after 5pm. GMT is just Daylight Robbery as far as I am concerned!  :angry:
		
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And ?

Again would you prefer to see the kids in this country go to school in the dark or is your priority businessmen who dont finish until after 5


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 26, 2014)

delc said:



			It was light before 6.30am this morning, an hour and half before I needed to get up, but it will be dark just after 5pm. GMT is just Daylight Robbery as far as I am concerned!  :angry:
		
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There is your solution..........get up earlier and enjoy the daylight.

Otherwise, what would you do with your 30 minutes of dusk time?


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## c1973 (Oct 26, 2014)

What about businessmen who suffer from SAD and don't get any natural daylight (which helps with SAD)? 
Is their health and wellbeing not important? 

Fish does make a relevant comment about kids being in when it's dark though. 

Maybe we should put a curfew on the snottery little oiks and force parents to keep them in when it is dark. For their own safety obviously. 


Agree about kids being wrapped in cotton wool btw, but that's probably for another debate.


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## SaintHacker (Oct 26, 2014)

Phil, I think you're arguing with yourself a bit here. We're now at GMT, the 'correct' time. The clocks go forward an hour during the lighter days, I think it was done originally to allow farmers an extra hours daylight to harvest their crops. If we stopped putting the clocks forward kids would still go to school/come home in daylight.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2014)

c1973 said:



			What about businessmen who suffer from SAD and don't get any natural daylight (which helps with SAD)? 
Is their health and wellbeing not important? 

Fish does make a relevant comment about kids being in when it's dark though. 

Maybe we should put a curfew on the snottery little oiks and force parents to keep them in when it is dark. For their own safety obviously. 


Agree about kids being wrapped in cotton wool btw, but that's probably for another debate.
		
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They get sunlight in the morning and can go outside for lunch to get some light - even if the clocks didnt go backwards it would start to get dark around 5:30 ish - so it would be dark when they go to work and dark when they finish. 

Plenty of chances for people to get natural light during the day

And kids just dont play outside in the dark anymore - because of things that have happened over the last two decades kids are protected more .


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2014)

SaintHacker said:



			Phil, I think you're arguing with yourself a bit here. We're now at GMT, the 'correct' time. The clocks go forward an hour during the lighter days, I think it was done originally to allow farmers an extra hours daylight to harvest their crops. If we stopped putting the clocks forward kids would still go to school/come home in daylight.
		
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But the argument is to stop bringing the clocks back to GMT and keep it at BST


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## c1973 (Oct 26, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They get sunlight in the morning and can go outside for lunch to get some light - even if the clocks didnt go backwards it would start to get dark around 5:30 ish - so it would be dark when they go to work and dark when they finish. 

Plenty of chances for people to get natural light during the day
*
And kids just dont play outside in the dark anymore* - because of things that have happened over the last two decades kids are protected more .
		
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That's quite simply not true.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2014)

c1973 said:



			That's quite simply not true.
		
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Appears true around my area when i dont see any kids outside in the dark and my friends kids dont go outside in the dark and my nieces and nephews all come in when it gets dark

And i totally understand why parents would prefer their kids to come inside when it gets dark


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## c1973 (Oct 26, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Appears true around my area when i dont see any kids outside in the dark and my friends kids dont go outside in the dark and my nieces and nephews all come in when it gets dark

And i totally understand why parents would prefer their kids to come inside when it gets dark
		
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Not true round my way.  Which makes your original statement incorrect. 

Mind you the kids round my way will in all probability be tooled up!!


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## User20205 (Oct 26, 2014)

Wow, this is one of the most enlightened (teehee) and enjoyable debates I've ever had the pleasure to witness on here. I look forward to returning home later to see which tenuous, extreme example can cited as a mainstream reason, or otherwise. :thup:

Please carry on, I'm am entertained


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## Fish (Oct 26, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They get sunlight in the morning and can go outside for lunch to get some light - even if the clocks didnt go backwards it would start to get dark around 5:30 ish - so it would be dark when they go to work and dark when they finish. 

Plenty of chances for people to get natural light during the day

*And kids just dont play outside in the dark anymore - because of things that have happened over the last two decades kids are protected more *.
		
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No, its because of XBox, Playstations and all the other gizmo's that keep them in bedrooms texting to their mates for hours, can't remember the last time I saw a pair of kids playing kerby, they can't race the entry's because of metal gates and what ever happened to good old scrumping 

Nothing to do with the fear of being snatched!


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## CMAC (Oct 26, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



*I think the original reason was to assist Farmers to have a lighter morning to get their Cows in the sheds for milking. *  As we dont have many dairy farms left then its not so relevant now. Regarding kids going to school: Why are they in danger going to School if it's dark? Wont help kids in the North, its dark most of the day there.
		
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SaintHacker said:



			Phil, I think you're arguing with yourself a bit here. We're now at GMT, the 'correct' time. The clocks go forward an hour during the lighter days, *I think it was done originally to allow farmers an extra hours daylight to harvest their crops.* If we stopped putting the clocks forward kids would still go to school/come home in daylight.
		
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common misconception. When you think about it a clock doesnt dictate when a farmer does anything- daylight does.

The main UK reason was a power saving one especially WW1 WW11 when business's could start when it was lighter saving light power, critical during the war years.

Most schools finish at 3pm or 3.30pm these days- plenty of light then under BST


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## Qwerty (Oct 26, 2014)

Just out of interest (and I cannot be ersed checking 'stats etc)  I wonder if Theres an noticeable increase in accidents in a busy place like Inverness during the winter months compared to the rest of the uk.

Would there really be an increase in accidents when it's dark though?  I'd possibly argue that its easier for a child to see a car with headlights on in darkness than without in daylight, and also for the driver to see a child.


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## SaintHacker (Oct 26, 2014)

Seems like its got naff all to do with farmers at all, its to stop idiots killing themselves when it gets dark
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Summer_Time


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2014)

CMAC said:



			common misconception. When you think about it a clock doesnt dictate when a farmer does anything- daylight does.

The main UK reason was a power saving one especially WW1 WW11 when business's could start when it was lighter saving light power, critical during the war years.

*Most schools finish at 3pm or 3.30pm these days- plenty of light then under BST*

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Think its more about the sunlight in the morning


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## c1973 (Oct 26, 2014)

It's only a problem in Spring anyway......I mean we've all just scored an extra hour in our kip this morning, what's the problem, life's good.


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## guest100718 (Oct 26, 2014)

does anyone in this thread actually have children? With after school clubs and stuff they ae usually waling home in the dark anyway and as for playing outside.. i think you are imagining childhoods that didnt really exist cos when it was cold and dark we didnt go out much as kids.


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## Qwerty (Oct 26, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			i think you are imagining childhoods that didnt really exist cos when it was cold and dark we didnt go out much as kids.
		
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Why?  I was out every night from the age of about 8 and so were most of the local kids.   I think if one of my mates said he wasn't coming out because it was cold and Dark I'd still be laughing now.


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## c1973 (Oct 26, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			does anyone in this thread actually have children? With after school clubs and stuff they ae usually waling home in the dark anyway and as for playing outside.. i think you are imagining childhoods that didnt really exist cos when it was cold and dark we didnt go out much as kids.
		
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I was playing outside in all weather, hated being indoors (unless I was reading something at the time) I vividly recall playing football in the snow, blinding rain.....all sorts of weather. As long as you were wrapped up and in sight. Played outside with around 20 odd kids, albeit it was in a road with a dead end, so no through traffic (not many cars either as I recall) and playing fields across from the houses. A quiet street with the exception of us lot. 

Maybe you weren't out much as a kid, but I know I was.


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## c1973 (Oct 26, 2014)

Qwerty said:



			Why?  I was out every night from the age of about 8 and so were most of the local kids.   I think if one of my mates said he wasn't coming out because it was cold and Dark I'd still be laughing now.
		
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Let's face it, he'd have got battered!


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## guest100718 (Oct 26, 2014)

like i said, imaginary chilhoods.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2014)

c1973 said:



			I was playing outside in all weather, hated being indoors (unless I was reading something at the time) I vividly recall playing football in the snow, blinding rain.....all sorts of weather. As long as you were wrapped up and in sight. Played outside with around 20 odd kids, albeit it was in a road with a dead end, so no through traffic (not many cars either as I recall) and playing fields across from the houses. A quiet street with the exception of us lot. 

Maybe you weren't out much as a kid, but I know I was. 

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yep out every night after school and all weekend long - used to have to get dragged back inside for dinner etc


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## CMAC (Oct 26, 2014)

c1973 said:



			I was playing outside in all weather, hated being indoors (unless I was reading something at the time) I vividly recall playing football in the snow, blinding rain.....all sorts of weather. As long as you were wrapped up and in sight. Played outside with around 20 odd kids, albeit it was in a road with a dead end, so no through traffic (not many cars either as I recall) and playing fields across from the houses. A quiet street with the exception of us lot. 

Maybe you weren't out much as a kid, but I know I was. 

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times and lifestyle has changed- that's ...erm... life.



please don't start telling us there was 150 of you living in shoe box in middle of road, Cardboard box? "Luxury"


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## Fish (Oct 26, 2014)

CMAC said:



			times and lifestyle has changed- that's ...erm... life.



please don't start telling us there was 150 of you living in shoe box in middle of road, Cardboard box? "Luxury"
		
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"It's him, mommy, it's him again. He has taken more than his fair share of the coat." "What are you talking about, coat. There's no coat in there. I don't know, she has a fertile imagination, father. The coats are all in the cloakroom." They're in the kitchen. Bloody cloakroom. She thinks it a dancehall, she's in. "The coats are in the cloakroom, and well you know it. Down on the mezzanine floor. Near the lunchenette, next to the breakfast bar. It's an eiderdown, you stupid girl. Coat, ha, ha, ha, I don't know where they get it. She must have thought it was one of them duvet jackets. Eiderdown! You were saying, father... what were you saying about God, there, father? What was that? All right, enough. Here, have another custard creme, that's right. Oh, you don't say." Bedlam, bedlam, bedlam. "Will you stop that, in there! I won't tell you... I won't tell you again." "It's him, mommy, it's him again." "What's his doing this time?" "He is shoving his legs through the sleeves of the eiderdown."


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## delc (Oct 26, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			There is your solution..........get up earlier and enjoy the daylight.

Otherwise, what would you do with your 30 minutes of dusk time?
		
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Problem is that it tends to be colder in the morning and people have to make breakfast and get ready to go to work (which can be done in the dark as long as you have artificial lighting). Evenings are generally warmer and you are less likely to have time restraints. Therefore lighter evenings are more valuable to most people than lighter mornings.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2014)

delc said:



			Problem is that it tends to be colder in the morning and people have to make breakfast and get ready to go to work (which can be done in the dark as long as you have artificial lighting). Evenings are generally warmer and you are less likely to have time restraints. Therefore lighter evenings are more valuable to most people than lighter mornings.  

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What exactly are you going to be able to achieve in the extra half hour of sunlight in the evening ?


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## delc (Oct 26, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What exactly are you going to be able to achieve in the extra half hour of sunlight in the evening ?
		
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Play a few holes of golf perhaps! 

P.S. if we stayed on BST it would be a full extra hour of sunlight btw!


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2014)

delc said:



			Play a few holes of golf perhaps! 

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You wouldnt be able to play any holes if you finsihed work at 5 even if the clocks didnt go back - but what you would do though is at weekends people wouldnt be able to tee off until 8 ish - maybe 8:30.


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## delc (Oct 26, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You wouldnt be able to play any holes if you finsihed work at 5 even if the clocks didnt go back - but what you would do though is at weekends people wouldnt be able to tee off until 8 ish - maybe 8:30.
		
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I was playing golf until a few minutes after 6pm last night, but that wouldn't be possible today! The days are short in the middle of Winter, but GMT just prolongs the agony!  :angry:


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2014)

delc said:



			I was playing golf until a few minutes after 6pm last night, but that wouldn't be possible today! The days are short in the middle of Winter, but GMT just prolongs the agony!
		
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But yesterday we couldnt start until 8 - this morning we could start at 7 :thup

If you are working during the week you cant fit any holes in unless you leave early 

You can now play earlier in the day at weekends.


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## c1973 (Oct 26, 2014)

CMAC said:



			times and lifestyle has changed- that's ...erm... life.



please don't start telling us there was 150 of you living in shoe box in middle of road, Cardboard box? "Luxury"
		
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150? You were lucky! There were 400 of us living on top of a shoebox in the middle of the lane on the road, I were knocked down twice a day, 8 days a week and paid driver for t'privilege! I got up half an hour before I went t'sleep, brushed my teeth with tarmac, ate a handful of hot gravel, puked it up to keep for ma lunch, got knocked down, paid driver then went t'work for 25hrs non stop before going home and getting murdered by my father every day of my life........still found time to play outside in freezing cold n dark every night......you try telling kids that nowadays.....they'd never believe you.


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## c1973 (Oct 26, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			like i said, imaginary chilhoods.
		
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Nothing imaginary about mine. Outside playing every chance I got. 

Maybe it bears no similarities to your childhood (I apologise if you were a weak, sickly child who never got out much and had to be mollycodled) but like I say I was out playing in all weather every chance I got. Nothing imaginary in my post.


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## guest100718 (Oct 26, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Nothing imaginary about mine. Outside playing every chance I got. 

Maybe it bears no similarities to your childhood (I apologise if you were a weak, sickly child who never got out much and had to be mollycodled) but like I say I was out playing in all weather every chance I got. Nothing imaginary in my post. 

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lol whatever


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## williamalex1 (Oct 26, 2014)

I vaguely remember they tried it in 1968/69 when the clocks didn't get put back,  it didn't work too well up here.


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## delc (Oct 26, 2014)

williamalex1 said:



			I vaguely remember they tried it in 1968/69 when the clocks didn't get put back,  it didn't work too well up here.
		
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The Scots complained about their 'wee bairns' being run over by motorists as they walked to school in the dark mornings. Statistically fewer children were actually killed walking to or from school in those years, just more in the mornings and less in the lighter evenings. Problem with living in Northern latitudes, such as Scotland, is that the daylight hours get very short in the middle of Winter, so it's difficult to avoid travelling in darkness at some time of the working day! To compensate they get longer hours of daylight in Summer. :mmm:


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2014)

delc said:



			The Scots complained about their 'wee bairns' being run over by motorists as they walked to school in the dark mornings. Statistically fewer children were actually killed walking to or from school in those years, just more in the mornings and less in the lighter evenings. Problem with living in Northern latitudes, such as Scotland, is that the daylight hours get very short in the middle of Winter, so it's difficult to avoid travelling in darkness at some time of the working day! To compensate they get longer hours of daylight in Summer. :mmm:
		
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Do you not thinking worrying about their children is more of a valid claim than you getting a few holes in or a businessmen getting a hour in the last hour of daylight.

Maybe a readjustment of priorities


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## delc (Oct 26, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you not thinking worrying about their children is more of a valid claim than you getting a few holes in or a businessmen getting a hour in the last hour of daylight.

Maybe a readjustment of priorities
		
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As I pointed out, actually fewer children were killed walking to and from school during the permanent BST experiment. Just that a lot of fuss was created by the Scottish media about those killed in the mornings! Obviously I would prefer it if no children were killed on their journeys to and from school.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2014)

So if enduring kids walk safe and in daylight to school you would be all for that then :thup:


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## delc (Oct 26, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So if enduring kids walk safe and in daylight to school you would be all for that then :thup:
		
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Walking to or from school in the dark is not intrinsically unsafe, given sensible precaution such as wearing reflective jackets. There are countries in the world where there is permanent darkness in the middle of winter, but kids still go to school!


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2014)

But we aren't that country and the kids in that country are used to it 

Have it darker in the morning will add more mums to the road to take their kids to school

There is no reason I can see that you have posted that is a valid reason to stick to BST


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## delc (Oct 26, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But we aren't that country and the kids in that country are used to it 

Have it darker in the morning will add more mums to the road to take their kids to school

There is no reason I can see that you have posted that is a valid reason to stick to BST
		
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Well just about every person I spoke to today was unhappy about the clocks going back to GMT, so I am not the only person who thinks this way!


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 26, 2014)

delc said:



			Well just about every person I spoke to today was unhappy about the clocks going back to GMT, so I am not the only person who thinks this way!
		
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Well that's the deal sorted - lets get On to the house of lords and get the whole time changed so for no other reason than people don't like the clocks going to our normal time.


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## williamalex1 (Oct 26, 2014)

delc said:



			Well just about every person I spoke to today was unhappy about the clocks going back to GMT, so I am not the only person who thinks this way!
		
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You didn't speak to me or any of your northern friends[ if you have any] did you, very selfish and silly IMO,  RICHARD:ears:head.


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## delc (Oct 26, 2014)

williamalex1 said:



			You didn't speak to me or any of your northern friends[ if you have any] did you, very selfish and silly IMO,  RICHARD:ears:head.
		
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You are presumably Scottish.  You have your own Scottish Parliament, so presumably they could legislate to have permanent GMT in Scotland. Just don't inflict it on the rest of the UK!


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## williamalex1 (Oct 26, 2014)

delc said:



			You are presumably Scottish.  You have your own Scottish Parliament, so presumably they could legislate to have permanent GMT in Scotland. Just don't inflict it on the rest of the UK!
		
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We are still in the UK , please try and keep up.


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## SocketRocket (Oct 26, 2014)

Fish said:



			No, its because of XBox, Playstations and all the other gizmo's that keep them in bedrooms texting to their mates for hours, can't remember the last time I saw a pair of kids playing kerby, they can't race the entry's because of metal gates *and what ever happened to good old scrumping *

Nothing to do with the fear of being snatched!
		
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They call it 'Stealing Apples' these days


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 27, 2014)

Was nice driving into work this morning with the sun starting to rise - gave a nice bright start to a Monday morning


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## delc (Oct 27, 2014)

I woke up naturally at 06.35 this morning, well before my alarm clock went off. It was perfectly light outside, but there is very little I can do until at least 08.00 because nothing opens until then. A complete waste of well over an hour's precious daylight!  William Willett (original proposer of daylight saving) must be turning in his grave! :angry:


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 27, 2014)

You could get as many holes in as you would do between 5 and 6 

Go to the shops and get breakfast
Walk the dog
Have a walk
Go to the tip
Do some gardening
Go to work and hour early and then leave an hour early and get a couple holes in


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## delc (Oct 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You could get as many holes in as you would do between 5 and 6 

Go to the shops and get breakfast
Walk the dog
Have a walk
Go to the tip
Do some gardening
Go to work and hour early and then leave an hour early and get a couple holes in
		
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Most shops in my area don't open until 8 or 9am
Don't have a dog
Tip doesn't open until 8.15am
I'm retired now, but when I did work I wasn't allowed into my office before 08.30 because of 'Ealth 'n Safety!
Golf club doesn't open until 07.30am at this time of year and it's now too dark to start playing after 15.00.


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## JCW (Oct 27, 2014)

yes we know derek , why we still do this i not sure


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## delc (Oct 27, 2014)

JCW said:



			yes we know derek , why we still do this i not sure
		
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Apparently because the Scottish media portrayed the last trial of permanent BST as a Sassanach plot to rob them of an hour's daylight and to murder their children as they walked to school! Hence a lot of complaints from that part of the world, but few from the English (except maybe from a handful of professional Northerners!).


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## Slab (Oct 27, 2014)

You guys always seem a little more distant to me when you put the clocks back... its like there's a disturbance in the force!


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## c1973 (Oct 27, 2014)

delc said:



			Apparently because the Scottish media portrayed the last trial of permanent BST as a Sassanach plot to rob them of an hour's daylight and to murder their children as they walked to school! Hence a lot of complaints from that part of the world, but few from the English (except maybe from a handful of professional Northerners!).  

Click to expand...


:rofl:

This made me laugh heartily, very entertaining post. :thup:


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## DCB (Oct 27, 2014)

delc said:



			Apparently because the Scottish media portrayed the last trial of permanent BST as a Sassanach plot to rob them of an hour's daylight and to murder their children as they walked to school! Hence a lot of complaints from that part of the world, but few from the English (except maybe from a handful of professional Northerners!).  

Click to expand...

I remember it well, leaving home with fluorescent tabard on and reflective bands on my jacket sleeves as I walked to school. It was a three year experiment that was fairly inconclusive.

By the way, published figures for early morning accidents gave a figure of over 900 additional killed or seriously injured over the time of the experiment. A not insignificant number.


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## c1973 (Oct 27, 2014)

delc said:



			Apparently because the Scottish media portrayed the last trial of permanent BST as a Sassanach plot to rob them of an hour's daylight and to murder their children as they walked to school! Hence a lot of complaints from that part of the world, but few from the English (except maybe from a handful of professional Northerners!).  

Click to expand...




c1973 said:



			:rofl:

This made me laugh heartily, very entertaining post. :thup:
		
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Btw, del, how do you define a 'professional Northerner'?


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## delc (Oct 27, 2014)

DCB said:



			I remember it well, leaving home with fluorescent tabard on and reflective bands on my jacket sleeves as I walked to school. It was a three year experiment that was fairly inconclusive.

By the way, published figures for early morning accidents gave a figure of over 900 additional killed or seriously injured over the time of the experiment. A not insignificant number.
		
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As I remember it, more than compensated for by fewer accidents in the late afternoon and early evening.


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## delc (Oct 27, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Btw, del, how do you define a 'professional Northerner'?  

Click to expand...

You know, the sort who 'lived in cardboard box in middle of t' road', with a permanent chip on his shoulder!


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## Sweep (Oct 27, 2014)

I hated it going dark earlier when I was a kid and I hate it now, but I think this needs looking at again, as things have changed.
The cost of electricity is a major expense for most household budgets and the fact is that most people are at home more in the evening than in the morning, when they rush out to work etc. For many there is an hour where they wouldn't have to use so much electricity.
I understand about the kids issue, but we really do have to accept that they are just one part of society, one that has to be protected of course, but you can't do everything around them. If them going to school in daylight is so important, then start school an hour later. Except that will upset the 4x4 brigade who take their kids to school because none of them walk to school anymore anyway.
I do seem to remember an experiment in the '60's when I was a little kid, when they advanced GMT and BST by an hour (I think). It was called double summertime (in the summer) I think and it was great, especially in the summer when it never seemed to go dark. And in the winter I guess I walked to school in the dark and amazingly, I am still here.


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## Fyldewhite (Oct 27, 2014)

I always think this subject is approached from the wrong way. Always an issue when the dark nights are setting in and "why do we do this?" etc etc.

At the end of the day, winter in Britain is a pretty dull affair with only about 7/8 hours or less of daylight and we argue about how best to apportion this in the "day". There just isn't enough and it really isn't an argument worth getting into.....staying on BST will suit some but not others but it will still be dark most of the time however you cut it.

What the argument should be about is why on earth in the summer months when there is loads of daylight hours do we waste a couple of them by having the sun come up at 3:30 or 4 am when most of the population are in bed until at least 6??? By having "Double summer time" ie leaving winter as it is. Or going to CET (UKIP would love that LOL), most of us would have daylight from around 5 or 5:30 in the morning until 11 to 12 at night.

Massive energy savings, more time for recreation and leisure (inc golf) everyone really is a winner and we don't do it!


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## delc (Oct 27, 2014)

Fyldewhite said:



			I always think this subject is approached from the wrong way. Always an issue when the dark nights are setting in and "why do we do this?" etc etc.

At the end of the day, winter in Britain is a pretty dull affair with only about 7/8 hours or less of daylight and we argue about how best to apportion this in the "day". There just isn't enough and it really isn't an argument worth getting into.....staying on BST will suit some but not others but it will still be dark most of the time however you cut it.

What the argument should be about is why on earth in the summer months when there is loads of daylight hours do we waste a couple of them by having the sun come up at 3:30 or 4 am when most of the population are in bed until at least 6??? By having "Double summer time" ie leaving winter as it is. Or going to CET (UKIP would love that LOL), most of us would have daylight from around 5 or 5:30 in the morning until 11 to 12 at night.

Massive energy savings, more time for recreation and leisure (inc golf) everyone really is a winner and we don't do it!
		
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Unfortunately the Scots will still whinge that it gets dark too late up there in the middle of Summer and they can't get to sleep! Otherwise I totally agree!  

P.S. Why do we have to wait until the end of March (past the Spring equinox) before the clocks go forward again? The US go onto daylight saving time several weeks before we do. :mmm:


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## Hobbit (Oct 28, 2014)

Fyldewhite said:



			I always think this subject is approached from the wrong way. Always an issue when the dark nights are setting in and "why do we do this?" etc etc.

At the end of the day, winter in Britain is a pretty dull affair with only about 7/8 hours or less of daylight and we argue about how best to apportion this in the "day". There just isn't enough and it really isn't an argument worth getting into.....staying on BST will suit some but not others but it will still be dark most of the time however you cut it.

What the argument should be about is why on earth in the summer months when there is loads of daylight hours do we waste a couple of them by having the sun come up at 3:30 or 4 am when most of the population are in bed until at least 6??? By having "Double summer time" ie leaving winter as it is. Or going to CET (UKIP would love that LOL), most of us would have daylight from around 5 or 5:30 in the morning until 11 to 12 at night.

Massive energy savings, more time for recreation and leisure (inc golf) everyone really is a winner and we don't do it!
		
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Give this man a sound thrashing - far too sensible.


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## CMAC (Oct 28, 2014)

delc said:



			Unfortunately *the Scots will still whinge that it gets dark too late up there in the middle of Summer *and they can't get to sleep! Otherwise I totally agree!  

P.S. Why do we have to wait until the end of March (past the Spring equinox) before the clocks go forward again? The US go onto daylight saving time several weeks before we do. :mmm:
		
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you ever been to Scotland in Summer? The Scots revel in the late nights, golf till 11 pm, outside recreation/pubs/gardens/bbq's/biking etc till very late then golf at 5am getting a full round in before work.

I think theres only one person whinging here


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## TonyN (Oct 28, 2014)

What about the kids who walk the dogs after school to earn a bit of pocket money? what about the kids who do paper rounds after school? What about the kids who play sport after school and have to walk home in the dark?

IMO, if a child is too young and considered to be at risk walking to school alone, they simply shouldn't be walking to school without an adult. Is the dark really the issue, or is it uneducated children without any street sense?

I believe the topic of DST is to be debated again this year with the suggestion we fall in line with CET. Either way, it wont make much of a difference once we all adapt. Except that we won't have to either work an hour longer, or take toil to finish on time!


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## delc (Oct 28, 2014)

CMAC said:



			you ever been to Scotland in Summer? The Scots revel in the late nights, golf till 11 pm, outside recreation/pubs/gardens/bbq's/biking etc till very late then golf at 5am getting a full round in before work.

I think theres only one person whinging here

Click to expand...

When I posted a similar thread on another forum last year, that was precisely one of the objections raised by several Scottish folk, i.e if we were on double summer time it would get dark too late in the middle of summer up there!  Another Sassanach plot to deprive them of sleep!


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 28, 2014)

Simple answer. The rest of the UK changes so that we get lighter nights in the winter. If the Scots want to stay with the current system then their parliament can make that decision, as can the Welsh and N.Irsih equivalents. Devolution at work.

Perfectly workable, we manage with the rest of Europe being predominantly on a different time zone.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 28, 2014)

What is the point in having Scotland on a different time zone ?! 

We managed with the rest of Europe because they are good thousand miles further away in places ?!

There is nothing wrong with the way it works now. Plan your life better and there is nothing to worry about


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## delc (Oct 28, 2014)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Simple answer. The rest of the UK changes so that we get lighter nights in the winter. If the Scots want to stay with the current system then their parliament can make that decision, as can the Welsh and N.Irsih equivalents. Devolution at work.

Perfectly workable, we manage with the rest of Europe being predominantly on a different time zone.
		
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I have read somewhere that there is a move afoot to synchronise the UK with Central European Time in the not too distant future, so that would solve all our daylight saving issues. We would effectively be on BST in the winter and double summer time in summer.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 28, 2014)

delc said:



			I have read somewhere that there is a move afoot to synchronise the UK with Central European Time in the not too distant future, so that would solve all our daylight saving issues. We would effectively be on BST in the winter and double summer time in summer.
		
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Can you point in the direction where you read this ?

It was have to go through government approval 

Also it will effect business hours with companies that have links to the states 

I will be amazed if it goes through just for light between 5 and 6 at night but still dark at 8 in the morning


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## delc (Oct 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can you point in the direction where you read this ?

It was have to go through government approval 

Also it will effect business hours with companies that have links to the states 

I will be amazed if it goes through just for light between 5 and 6 at night but still dark at 8 in the morning
		
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So how do France and Spain manage, because they are on similar longitudes to the UK?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 28, 2014)

delc said:



			So how do France and Spain manage, because they are on similar longitudes to the UK?
		
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So where did you read about the change ?

Spain have a slightly different climate to ours - so does half of france

Put it this way - i would prefer to drive to work on an icy morning at 7 in light than in dark.

i still havent seen from yourself a perfectly good reason for the change ?


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What is the point in having Scotland on a different time zone ?! 

We managed with the rest of Europe because they are good thousand miles further away in places ?!

There is nothing wrong with the way it works now. Plan your life better and there is nothing to worry about
		
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If Scotland want to stay with the current set up then that would be their choice. It may suit them, personally I don't think it suits the rest of the UK very well. I plan my life very nicely thank you but it would be more pleasant if nights were lighter for a little longer. Most evidence points that way.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 28, 2014)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If Scotland want to stay with the current set up then that would be their choice. It may suit them, personally I don't think it suits the rest of the UK very well. I plan my life very nicely thank you but it would be *more pleasant if nights were lighter for a little longer.* Most evidence points that way.
		
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So instead of goign dark at 5 you get an extra hour until 6 ? And most people will be getting home from work then and wpnt be able to make any use of it anyway ?

I prefer having the light in the morning - safer on the roads with the school kids about and also golf course is open for 7


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## upsidedown (Oct 28, 2014)

delc said:



			So how do France and Spain manage, because they are on similar longitudes to the UK?
		
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In Spain last week at still dark at 8 then light till 7.30 pm.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So instead of goign dark at 5 you get an extra hour until 6 ? And most people will be getting home from work then and wpnt be able to make any use of it anyway ?

I prefer having the light in the morning - safer on the roads with the school kids about and also golf course is open for 7
		
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And that of course is the choice, lighter mornings or lighter evenings. You prefer one way I prefer the other. Such is life. Unfortunately for me it is harder to change something like this than maintain the status quo so the likelihood is nothing will change. I'll still keep signing the online petitions though :whoo:


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 28, 2014)

to be honest I don't have a preference. I think on balance I'd prefer lighter mornings if only for the school kids going to school and the commute into work. Just my own point of view


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## delc (Oct 29, 2014)

I'm still waking up at 06.30 when it's perfectly light, but nothing is open and there is nothing to do for another hour-and-half. By contrast it was almost dark at 17.00 today! GMT does not make the best use of daylight, even in Winter!


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## Imurg (Oct 29, 2014)

[



delc said:



			I'm still waking up at 06.30 when it's perfectly light, but nothing is open and there is nothing to do for another hour-and-half. By contrast it was almost dark at 17.00 today! GMT does not make the best use of daylight, even in Winter!
		
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Does it get boring typing the same thing every couple of days...?
LiverpoolPhil will be on in a minute going on about Businessmen.....


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 29, 2014)

Imurg said:



			[



Does it get boring typing the same thing every couple of days...?
LiverpoolPhil will be on in a minute going on about Businessmen.....

Click to expand...

Just think of the kids people !! Think of the people that are our future


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## DCB (Oct 29, 2014)

all depends on where you are in the country, I'd say we had Daylight here from 07:25-16:35 today. Dark at 6:30am when I left the house and dark by the time I got home around 5:15pm Both journeys required headlights on.  Roll on March


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 29, 2014)

DCB said:



			all depends on where you are in the country, I'd say we had Daylight here from 07:25-16:35 today. Dark at 6:30am when I left the house and dark by the time I got home around 5:15pm Both journeys required headlights on.  Roll on March 

Click to expand...

Was getting light here on my way home this morning at around 7:10 ish and then dark around 5:20ish


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 29, 2014)

Light enough to hit balls and warm up on Sunday at 7.10


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## delc (Oct 29, 2014)

Sunrise in London today (29th October) was at 06.48 and sunset at 16.39. You expect to get about 30 minutes twilight either side of those times.

In Glasgow today, sunrise 07.17 sunset 16.44.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just think of the kids people !! Think of the people that are our future 

Click to expand...

I almost got emotional then LP. 

I believe the children are our future. Teach them well. And let them lead the way. Show them all the beauty they possess inside. Give them a sense of pride.


I've always thought that this forum doesn't have enough Whitney Houston.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 29, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			I almost got emotional then LP. 

I believe the children are our future. Teach them well. And let them lead the way. Show them all the beauty they possess inside. Give them a sense of pride.


I've always thought that this forum doesn't have enough Whitney Houston.
		
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:rofl:

Brilliant :clap:


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## Sweep (Oct 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What is the point in having Scotland on a different time zone ?! 
We managed with the rest of Europe because they are good thousand miles further away in places ?!

There is nothing wrong with the way it works now. Plan your life better and there is nothing to worry about
		
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The last time I looked, The South of England was a lot closer to France than Scotland.
Seemingly it is the Scots who have the biggest issues with moving the clocks an hour forward, which is understandable given their geographic location. If it suits them, let them do what they want. As has been said, that's devolution.
Never mind Phil. You could always move to Scotland where you and our future you and Whitney love so much could have all the morning daylight you want


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## Sweep (Oct 30, 2014)

delc said:



			I have read somewhere that there is a move afoot to synchronise the UK with Central European Time in the not too distant future, so that would solve all our daylight saving issues. We would effectively be on BST in the winter and double summer time in summer.
		
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Which would be great. 
We will probably make the change just as we leave the European Union


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## bobmac (Oct 30, 2014)

Three questions if I may Delc......

1. If you are retired, why do you care what the time is?
2. Apart from the size of the hole, most of the rules of golf and clock changing, what else do you want to 'put right' in the world?
And finally the most important question on this whole thread..........
3. If you are retired why do you still set an alarm clock?

If you want to do something in the morning before the shops open, maybe you could do some volunteer work and help those less fortunate than yourself to get ready for the day.

I hope I'm more content and relaxed with life when I reach my fast approaching retirement.


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## CMAC (Oct 30, 2014)

bobmac said:



			Three questions if I may Delc......

1. If you are retired, why do you care what the time is?
2. Apart from the size of the hole, most of the rules of golf and clock changing, what else do you want to 'put right' in the world?
And finally the most important question on this whole thread..........
3. If you are retired why do you still set an alarm clock?

If you want to do something in the morning before the shops open, maybe you could do some volunteer work and help those less fortunate than yourself to get ready for the day.

I hope I'm more content and relaxed with life when I reach my fast approaching retirement.
		
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no need for this 'poke a stick at delc' post imo


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## bobmac (Oct 30, 2014)

CMAC said:



			no need for this 'poke a stick at delc' post imo
		
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It was meant to be a light hearted post.

If any mods feel my post was' poking a stick', please remove it.
Thanks.


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## Val (Oct 30, 2014)

Sweep said:



			The last time I looked, The South of England was a lot closer to France than Scotland.
Seemingly it is the Scots who have the biggest issues with moving the clocks an hour forward, which is understandable given their geographic location. If it suits them, let them do what they want. As has been said, that's devolution.
Never mind Phil. *You could always move to Scotland* where you and our future you and Whitney love so much could have all the morning daylight you want 

Click to expand...

Maybe if you don't like it as is you should move to France.


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## delc (Oct 30, 2014)

bobmac said:



			Three questions if I may Delc......

1. If you are retired, why do you care what the time is?
2. Apart from the size of the hole, most of the rules of golf and clock changing, what else do you want to 'put right' in the world?
And finally the most important question on this whole thread..........
3. If you are retired why do you still set an alarm clock?

If you want to do something in the morning before the shops open, maybe you could do some volunteer work and help those less fortunate than yourself to get ready for the day.

I hope I'm more content and relaxed with life when I reach my fast approaching retirement.
		
Click to expand...

I still have to meet up with other people's daily schedules, and I do a couple of voluntary type jobs. The shorter evenings do really mess about with outdoors activities (e.g. playing golf in the afternoon).


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2014)

delc said:



			I still have to meet up with other people's daily schedules, and I do a couple of voluntary type jobs. The shorter evenings do really mess about with outdoors activities (e.g. playing golf in the afternoon).
		
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So basically you are only worried about your afternoon golf 

Start an hour earlier then - problem solved


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## delc (Oct 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So basically you are only worried about your afternoon golf 

Start an hour earlier then - problem solved
		
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It affects my other hobby of gliding (I am a volunteer gliding instructor, winch driver and tug pilot) much more than golf, because we are limited to what time we start by noise agreements with the airfield's neighbours and we have to stop shortly after sunset for legal reasons.


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 30, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			I almost got emotional then LP. 

I believe the children are our future. Teach them well. And let them lead the way. Show them all the beauty they possess inside. Give them a sense of pride.


I've always thought that this forum doesn't have enough Whitney Houston.
		
Click to expand...

I'll see your Whitney and raise it a CSN.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVaqZajq-I


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## Sweep (Oct 31, 2014)

Val said:



			Maybe if you don't like it as is you should move to France.
		
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But if I did that, I would get the best of the EU as I watch all the migrants queue up at Calais for an easy life in blighty, some good plonk, some great cheese, good food, better roads, better weather, some good golf courses and everyone moaning at me would be speaking foreign so it wouldn't matter. My money would go further against the Euro. I would have nothing to complain about? Where's the fun in that? 
Anyway, what are you worried about? You already live in Scotland, so any changes England makes won't affect you.


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## TonyN (Oct 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			i still havent seen from yourself a perfectly good reason for the change ?
		
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2807407/Could-Scotland-time-zone-Campaign-UK-Central-European-time-clocks-tick-hour-north-border-devolved-powers.html


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## delc (Nov 1, 2014)

TonyN said:



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2807407/Could-Scotland-time-zone-Campaign-UK-Central-European-time-clocks-tick-hour-north-border-devolved-powers.html

Click to expand...

Ah, knew I had read it somewhere. Thanks for the link.


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## delc (Nov 2, 2014)

Wow! A Scottish lady I know who lives and works in Edinburgh has said that she also doesn't like the long dark evenings that GMT causes. So even in Scotland there is not universal support for winding the clocks to GMT in Winter!


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