# Do golf lessons work?



## bradleywedge (Sep 16, 2019)

I have never paid for a golf lesson in my life, I have received advice from pro's on a casual basis but never actually had a proper assessment.

My game has stalled somewhat and I seem to be going backwards if anything. I am loathe to have someone completely change my swing as I am at the stage of my life where I just want to go out and play with a bit of consistency instead of spending half my time looking for my ball off the fairway. I feel I just need a few tweaks here and there, mainly on driving the ball straight and help hitting longer irons.

Do you suggest just a 30/45 min lesson to start just to have my swing assessed, or anything more? What are you looking to pay? I have looked at local PGA pro's and they are looking to charge between Â£40 and Â£50 for an hour lesson, I take it this is the going rate.

Anyone like to share a success story from seeing a teaching pro?


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## anotherdouble (Sep 16, 2019)

Like any form of teaching and learning a practical skill, the outcome is dependent on the amount of practice the student is willing to put in between the lessons. Doesnâ€™t have to be golf, you can attribute the principle to learning to swim, play a musical instrument, computing, cooking etc. if You only rock up for lessons on a weekly, monthly basis then it will be a slow process


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 16, 2019)

I have lessons, and still do every now and then as I know I start to create issues and faults with my game.
I don't think you can  equate what a pro says causally with what a pro says when hes dedicated his window of time to you, looking at your swing in all it's glory.
As for not wanting to change your swing, I was like you in that regards but the bottom line was I was never going to steadily improve and be consistant with the swing and grip I had. 
I had to accept some change, and whilst I am still not anywhere as good as I want I have managed to definately improve and drop the handicap. As a result, I enjoy it more.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 16, 2019)

anotherdouble said:



			Like any form of teaching and learning a practical skill, the outcome is dependent on the amount of practice the student is willing to put in between the lessons. Doesnâ€™t have to be golf, you can attribute the principle to learning to swim, play a musical instrument, computing, cooking etc. if You only rock up for lessons on a weekly, monthly basis then it will be a slow process
		
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This is the correct answer. And the problem lies in the statement " I am loathe to have someone completely change my swing" etc. Your swing is causing you to well not be consistent. Who is to say you will completely change your swing. A lesson will tell you why your swing is inconsistent. Last lesson I had, he gave me a drill to do at home. Ironically my problem was off the tee. Or so I thought. We worked with a seven iron. I hit them straight . Picked up the driver and boom. Flippin eck where did that come from. Ironically learning to take the club away on the right line helped to create power as well as accuracy. Was it a massive tweak. No not really. I knew what I was doing was wrong, I had never been shown how to correct it.
Lesson lesson lesson. In all honesty, there's enough lads on here from the north east. Where you from?


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 16, 2019)

If you keep doing what your doing you will keep getting what you get.
It might be something very simple that you canâ€™t see.
A good pro wonâ€™t take your swing apart unless you ask him to.
Â£30 for 30 mins up here, if heâ€™s any good he will only need 5 mins to see it and 25 to show you how to sort it.


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## chrisd (Sep 16, 2019)

I've been having a series of lessons over a prolonged period, my swing now is hugely different to what it was last year. I have worked hard at the range to ingrain the changes and feel that my swing is much better, and consistent, (except the driver) and, after a long series of handicap increases during the changes, I finally won the mid week medal a couple of weeks ago and a small cut. 

The fact is that you have to commit to whatever changes required and many don't and go back to their old swings if they dont get immediate results


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## Orikoru (Sep 16, 2019)

I have some of the same reservations about a pro making wholesale changes - largely because you need to commit of lot of time to practising to bed them in, and I'm not willing or really able to do that. I almost relented earlier this year but I managed to work through the issues I was having myself in the end.

If you can find a really good pro who understands what you want and is good at working with your own swing then I'm sure you can find what you're looking for. Unfortunately though finding the right pro can be a bit of a trial and error process, so you might have to go through a frog or two before you find your prince. So to speak.

A lot of people on this forum swear by lessons as the be all and end all, but you really need to put that practise time in to get the benefit, which not everyone can do.


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## jim8flog (Sep 16, 2019)

I used to have regular lessons when I was younger.

The only reason that stops me having them now is my body. These days ten balls on the range is all I do before my body starts to complain about the repetition.

 Mind you the last occasional lessons I had only lasted 15 minutes or less ones because the pro used to be able to spot the fault straight away and a few balls later all fixed.


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## ScienceBoy (Sep 16, 2019)

On their own, no.  If you just take golf lessons you wonâ€™t get very far.

You need to practice, do drills and most of all play.

If you can learn to fix your faults you can make big improvements beyond just lessons.

Iâ€™ve had one lesson this year and I am still benefiting from it as my pro helped me learn to fix, Iâ€™m still working on doing the little couple of fixed we identified.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 16, 2019)

You are assuming a major swing change. The pro may change one thing. That one change may correct 3 other faults just because the cogs are now all working correctly together. Tashy and Clubchamp have nailed it for me.

Incidentally, give the pro parameters if you are worried. The lesson is for your benefit not for them to show off. Don't worry, get your game fixed and start enjoying yourself more again.


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## Jacko_G (Sep 16, 2019)

Still go for a lesson per month to keep things ticking over. Find a decent pro and your game will improve no doubt about it in my mind.


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## bobmac (Sep 16, 2019)

For me, a good teacher is someone who can improve a golfers impact position, not by rebuilding their swing but by changing as little as possible.
Minimum input, maximum satisfaction.
(D'Acampo. G 2016)


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 16, 2019)

bobmac said:



			For me, a good teacher is someone who can improve a golfers impact position, not by rebuilding their swing but by changing as little as possible.
Minimum input, maximum satisfaction.
(D'Acampo. G 2016)
		
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Yes Someone said â€œ 6â€ behind the ball and 6â€ after the ball is all that countsâ€


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## TheDiablo (Sep 16, 2019)

To put another perspective out there, I've got no time to practice, nor do I enjoy practice. 

My golf was getting worse and worse, couldn't keep it on the course off the tee, went from 15 to 16.4 pretty much straight and was basically shooting 100, not even close to handicap. 

I just thought no point getting a lesson cos I can't nor want to to practice, so it would be pointless. After all, everyone tells you lessons only work if you practice after/between

It got so bad that I had nothing to lose though. Went to a pro I saw when starting out a few years ago, and told him about my situation. 'Just give me one thing, maybe 2 in one lesson that I can take to a course and doesn't require practice' 

Massively changed my takeaway on driver which changed the backswing and let me hit straight. 

I've honestly not practiced once, not played more golf than usual and results have been very good. 

Basically, it might be that there is a quick fix. Other than Â£50, what have you got to lose?


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## bobmac (Sep 17, 2019)

No need to spend that sort of money.
30 mins will be plenty which should only cost you Â£20-25.
The pro should start the lesson by asking ''how can I help'' you just tell him what you told us.

Or if you have any videos of your swing, post them on here and I'll take a look.


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## Capella (Sep 17, 2019)

From my experience, there are two kinds of golf pros. Those who go about it as bobmac describes in the quote above ... by making small but effective changes. Those lessons are normally very valuable and have a positive effect right away (you still need to practice those changes to make the most of them, though). Other pros go more by Theodore Adorno's â€œThere is no right life in the wrong one.â€ and try to rebuild your swing from scratch. That might be a good approach for a relative beginner or for someone who is very ambitious and does not mind to put in many many hours of practice to end up with a "perfect" golf swing, but it will lead to a lot of frustration and a complete inability to play and enjoy the game in the meantime.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 17, 2019)

I think my thoughts are well known. I have had a few pros in my time. One was really technical but got the message across in a way I understood and I knew why he was making each change and where it fitted into the chain reaction of the swing and why it needed improving. Another who was a Plane Truth advocate started off really well and got me down to 10 and then suddenly seemed to want to reinvent the wheel each time and when I asked why seemed to get very huffy. I tried explaining we were making good progress and only wanted to refine but he insisted there were still wholesale changes needed. I've been using the guy I see now for about 3-4 years. He's old school and while he has camera's and launch monitors if needed, like Bob, he can usually see the faults by eye and works to refine and work within a players current swing and limitations. I feel much happier since using him and this year I've gone from 15-12 and a couple of wins, although managed to climb back to 13 now feel much happier with where my game is.

I would always argue that if the very best pros in the world, who are hitting balls every day, still need to work on basics and have lessons then it should be something we do. It can be as simple as a 30 minute MOT at the start of each season to make sure the fundamentals are right and make any minor tweaks and doesn't have to be a major change or rebuild


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## need_my_wedge (Sep 17, 2019)

chrisd said:



			I've been having a series of lessons over a prolonged period, my swing now is hugely different to what it was last year. I have worked hard at the range to ingrain the changes and feel that my swing is much better, and consistent, (except the driver) and, after a long series of handicap increases during the changes, I finally won the mid week medal a couple of weeks ago and a small cut.

The fact is that you have to commit to whatever changes required and many don't and go back to their old swings if they dont get immediate results
		
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I'm with Chris. This time last year I was on the verge of chucking it in. I'd spent two years rapidly dropping from 13.0 - 15 and just couldn't hit a straight ball to save my life, had a really bad duck hook that killed my game. Decided to go and see a new pro (new to me), that my son had just started having lessons with after a few recommendations. Got on with him straight away, asked me what the issues were, asked me to hit a few balls, filmed it all on his ipad and was able to dissect it all very quickly. Unfortunately for me, there was a lot a wrong, grip, posture, takeaway, big sway off the ball, and a big lasso loop at the top worse than Furyk, not to mention that it just looked really awful to watch.  I took the decision to try and fix it, and have been having regular lessons over the past 11 months, weekly at first, now every two - three weeks. I also committed to practicing, going to the range a couple of times a week and hitting a bucket working on whatever we did in the last lesson. I have a completely different swing now, which I am very pleased about. I haven't dropped my handicap yet, but my ball striking is hugely improved. Have had a lot of up and downs with the changes, instant fixes that work a treat, then subconciously over correcting to make it worse etc. However, when I play casual knocks now, I often come in under handicap by 4 or 5 shots, I don't spend very much time in the trees looking for balls, and don't lose them so quickly. My pro charges Â£150 for 6 lessons, which are supposed to be 30 minute sessions and usually run to 40/ 45. It's not perfect, and unlikely to be , but it feels much better swinging and hitting the ball, although I've decided to reduce comps for now, because I heap too much pressure on my game thinking the changes should give me a handicap reduction and then getting frustrated when it doesn't happen. If I keep doing what I'm doing, it will though.  I appreciate that not everyone can do the lesson/ practice route, some maybe don't need as much practice as others, some don't want to, but I also run a martial arts club, and I can tell you from 30 years of experience, that any improvement usually only comes from being taught correctly and then practicing correctly, you really do only get what you put in.


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## chrisd (Sep 17, 2019)

bobmac said:



			No need to spend that sort of money.
30 mins will be plenty which should only cost you Â£20-25.
The pro should start the lesson by asking ''how can I help'' you just tell him what you told us.

Or if you have any videos of your swing, post them on here and I'll take a look.
		
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Down in the deep south east here most lessons are 45 minutes, I guess to allow the pro 15 minutes between lessons so as to run an hourly regime, and the cost is Â£45 to Â£50. I committed to 2 x 45 min lessons a month for as long as need at Â£60 per month and have told my pro that I intend to go to no more than one per month as from October. He does send out lots of good info and asks for a report on how I play every weekend so I've been happy with everything


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## duncan mackie (Sep 17, 2019)

Most evolved golf swings are a series of sticking plasters, as the player looks to resolve his latest symptom with a quick, or easy/non disruptive, fix.
At it's extreme the player will buy another club, clubs or even look to change their ball to resolve a symptom that's crept into their game, or become exposed as they develop.

The trick, if there is one, is to remove only sufficient plasters to enable the player to move on the the level they wish (or is suitable for them given their resources - talent/time/committment/maybe money).
The real problem is normally honesty in terms of the various elements and this leads to most of the issues that get presented - either too much changed for the available commitment going forwards or not enough leaving unacceptable ceilings.

And of course there will always be a huge gap for many between their ball striking capabilities and their scoring...ðŸ¤”

Applying this to the question asked - 

A good professional should be able to assess your swing and, ideally present a range of approaches going forwards.
The player should select the approach that suits him.

It's not rocket science (unlike ball flight laws...ðŸ¤—)


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## DRW (Sep 17, 2019)

At some point we all stall, we all reach a plateau for the effort, natural talent, practise and amount we play. We have peak/hot rounds after reaching that plateau but return we do, to 'that' plateau. I think quite often that I am better than I am due to those peak rounds, but the truth hurts, I am not.

Me personally I have always enjoyed just playing and think some of the most enjoyable rounds, have been when I have been hacking.. When things are bad I am just trying to get something to work and tend to play around with the swing or swing thoughts, which to me is a great part of the 'game', so will probably never go for a lesson for that reason.

Hope you manage to sort it and lessons work out, best of luck.


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## dronfield (Sep 17, 2019)

bradleywedge said:



			I have never paid for a golf lesson in my life, I have received advice from pro's on a casual basis but never actually had a proper assessment.

My game has stalled somewhat and I seem to be going backwards if anything. I am loathe to have someone completely change my swing as I am at the stage of my life where I just want to go out and play with a bit of consistency instead of spending half my time looking for my ball off the fairway. I feel I just need a few tweaks here and there, mainly on driving the ball straight and help hitting longer irons.

Do you suggest just a 30/45 min lesson to start just to have my swing assessed, or anything more? What are you looking to pay? I have looked at local PGA pro's and they are looking to charge between Â£40 and Â£50 for an hour lesson, I take it this is the going rate.

Anyone like to share a success story from seeing a teaching pro?
		
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I have regularly taken lessons over the years, and generally buy them in bulk (circa 6 for Â£100/120), then spread them over a period of time. You obviously need time  to practice what you have been taught, and so i have worked on a 2- 3 week gap between lessons to allow for suffucient opportunity to do this.

Also, have found it better to have lessons during the off season, because it is easier and less pressurised when looking to implement the necessary swing changes (rather than potentially start hitting it sideways in next week's medal).

You need to find a coach you trust and enjoy working with - also someone who will be honest re your swing faults and not sugarcoat problems.

Hope this helps.

Rich


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## IanM (Sep 17, 2019)

Yes


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 17, 2019)

I havenâ€™t had golf lessons but know plenty who have and for me itâ€™s all about what stage you are at in your golfing life 

Lessons to start the game are good - providing you apply whatâ€™s being taught both on practise and on the course 

Then when you hit a plateau and donâ€™t improve you can try lessons but you could have reached your natural ability level and no matter how lessons you have you just donâ€™t improve - there are plenty of examples of people who reach this level and keep trying and trying to find the golden goose to go beyond their level - for me no matter how many lessons you have you just arenâ€™t going to improve 

Then you have the people who have reached a level but then start to go backwards - possibly a few faults have crepted in etc so itâ€™s worth getting a mot on the swing 


But lessons are not the immediate fix - it still needs the player to work at it


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 17, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I havenâ€™t had golf lessons but know plenty who have and for me itâ€™s all about what stage you are at in your golfing life

Lessons to start the game are good - providing you apply whatâ€™s being taught both on practise and on the course

Then when you hit a plateau and donâ€™t improve you can try lessons but you could have reached your natural ability level and no matter how lessons you have you just donâ€™t improve - there are plenty of examples of people who reach this level and keep trying and trying to find the golden goose to go beyond their level - for me no matter how many lessons you have you just arenâ€™t going to improve

Then you have the people who have reached a level but then start to go backwards - possibly a few faults have crepted in etc so itâ€™s worth getting a mot on the swing


But lessons are not the immediate fix - it still needs the player to work at it
		
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I agree here.
I have booked a lesson next week because some faults have crept into my swing .
I have tried to work it out myself but canâ€™t.
I am usually pretty good at self diagnosing problems but I am stumped .
I am hitting it left one hole, right the next par 3s are killing me .
So will be interesting to find out whatâ€™s going on.


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## bobmac (Sep 17, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I agree here.
I have booked a lesson next week because some faults have crept into my swing .
I have tried to work it out myself but canâ€™t.
I am usually pretty good at self diagnosing problems but I am stumped .
I am hitting it left one hole, right the next par 3s are killing me .
So will be interesting to find out whatâ€™s going on.
		
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Left hand weak, right hand strong and/or out to in swingpath would be my stab in the dark


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 17, 2019)

bobmac said:



			Left hand weak, right hand strong and/or out to in swingpath would be my stab in the dark
		
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Yes sorted the grip with a Skilz grip thing that fits on my club.
It was right hand strong. Left was ok.
Think itâ€™s in the backswing and over the top.
Have sort of lost my angles ,if that makes sense.
Trying to drop the club into a in to out slot but itâ€™s not working.

Had a nasty left ankle injury last year and just havnt got my game back at all.
Back down to 6 from 7 at start of year  and had some good scores ,  but down mostly to short game really.
Driving has been ok ,itâ€™s my irons that are the problem .
I just have no consistency. I can miss a green left or right with a wedge, itâ€™s driving me crackers.
I have been practising a lot and am obviously practicing my mistakes so need outside eyes to sort it.


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## bobmac (Sep 17, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Trying to drop the club into a in to out slot but itâ€™s not working.
		
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I'm not a big fan of that swing thought.
In theory it should help but........
If someone has a flat backswing, they often throw at the top getting the club outside the line. Then they remember to pull down with the hands but it's too late. All it does is steepen the downswing and if anything make the swing more out to in.
So yes it can work but should only be used under the supervision of a grown up.

What may help is not to rush the transition and even put a slight pause at the top.
Think of a garden swing changing direction and copy that tempo.

Good luck with the lesson


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 17, 2019)

bobmac said:



			I'm not a big fan of that swing thought.
In theory it should help but........
If someone has a flat backswing, they often throw at the top getting the club outside the line. Then they remember to pull down with the hands but it's too late. All it does is steepen the downswing and if anything make the swing more out to in.
So yes it can work but should only be used under the supervision of a grown up.

What may help is not to rush the transition and even put a slight pause at the top.
Think of a garden swing changing direction and copy that tempo.

Good luck with the lesson
		
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Cheers bob .
No wonder I am struggling .


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## Sairamtim (Sep 17, 2019)

I only started playing golf earlier this year and went through a few pros at various clubs till i found the right one. The worst coach was the most expensive and coaches pros and travels the world teaching players on tour. He believes a swing must look like x and every lesson would try and change things drastically again. It felt like every lesson I would go backwards. The coach also didnt provide any moral support at all. So I ditched him. The most recent coach only has to look at my swing and can idnetify the issues within a swing or two. However he doesnt provide any drills or anything between lessons. 
I think from what I see most golf coaches are pretty average. Some are decent at analysing your sweing but not great at providing a structure or game plan to improve if that makes sense.


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## bobmac (Sep 18, 2019)

Sairamtim said:



I think from what I see most golf coaches are pretty average.  

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Isn't that what average means?


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 18, 2019)

Sairamtim said:



I only started playing golf earlier this year and went through a few pros at various clubs till i found the right one. The worst coach was the most expensive and coaches pros and travels the world teaching players on tour. He believes a swing must look like x and every lesson would try and change things drastically again. It felt like every lesson I would go backwards. The coach also didnt provide any moral support at all. So I ditched him. The most recent coach only has to look at my swing and can idnetify the issues within a swing or two. However he doesnt provide any drills or anything between lessons. 
I think from what I see most golf coaches are pretty average. Some are decent at analysing your sweing but not great at providing a structure or game plan to improve if that makes sense. 

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Don't think you're getting a great service, or maybe I'm spoiled (perhaps Bob can let me know) but my pro always gives me a drill or two to work on to help the change bed in. Also, I can email a video of my swing if I'm struggling and he'll give me a couple of pointers if I've fallen into old habits. At the range he'll always watch for 2-3 minutes between lessons to see I am working on the right thing


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## Tashyboy (Sep 18, 2019)

bobmac said:



			I'm not a big fan of that swing thought.
In theory it should help but.........
So yes it can work but should only be used under the supervision of a grown up.

What may help is not to rush the transition and even put a slight pause at the top.
Think of a garden swing changing direction and copy that tempo.

Good luck with the lesson
		
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bobmac said:



			I'm not a big fan of that swing thought.
In theory it should help but........
*If someone has a flat backswing, they often throw at the top getting the club outside the line. Then they remember to pull down with the hands but it's too late. All it does is steepen the downswing and if anything make the swing more out to in.*
So yes it can work but should only be used under the supervision of a grown up.

What may help is not to rush the transition and even put a slight pause at the top.
Think of a garden swing changing direction and copy that tempo.

Good luck with the lesson
		
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How very very odd, I went for a lesson a couple of months ago. In essence my swing was out to in causing a fade/ slice. When I did cream one straight it went straight left as I squared the club face up with The swing path.
Anyway, my swing mistake was pointed out and I was given some drills to get a flat back swing. It works, however it only works when th flat backswing is followed by a flat down swing.  What I have found is that sometimes I go back to throwing my club out on the down swing which has caused me to either go back to the fade or topping the ball. In essence I go back to old bad habits. I have been given 3 drills to do everyday, but do I do them to help with muscle memory, routine no do I Eck as like.
Again the garden swing bit is emphasising the same swing plane. That slight pause is in me game tomorrow. ðŸ‘
Cheers Bob.


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## Jigger (Sep 18, 2019)

Â£30/hr up north. I could replicate a lot of the comments on here but some feedback on your post that is meant in as friendliest terms possible. 

You need to change your opinion on coaching and go in with and open mind. see lessons as a potential journey rather than a one off fix. Then dedicate some time to practicing. 

You pretty much said exactly what a mate told me last year. He was too cynical about them improving him and the lessons were just a waste of money for him as heâ€™s back doing the old stuff and is probably little worse.


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## ADB (Sep 18, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Don't think you're getting a great service, or maybe I'm spoiled (perhaps Bob can let me know) but my pro always gives me a drill or two to work on to help the change bed in. Also, I can email a video of my swing if I'm struggling and he'll give me a couple of pointers if I've fallen into old habits. At the range he'll always watch for 2-3 minutes between lessons to see I am working on the right thing
		
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Howâ€™s that working for you....


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 19, 2019)

ADB said:



			Howâ€™s that working for you....
		
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In what way? 

Down from 15-13 in 2019 and more consistent and bad rounds now around 30 points when it would have been 23-24 points so feel I'm moving forward.


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## Hobbit (Sep 19, 2019)

Do lessons work? Yes. Sometimes you only need a quick fix, and a 30 min lesson is more than enough. Others require their swing to be stripped back and to a certain extent rebuilt. That requires a lot of work from both the pro and the student.

Some coaches connect well with some students whilst other students struggle with that coach.

Go to a lesson with a clear idea of what you want. Explain it to the pro. He should take it on board. He may say you're wrong, and then its up to the student to listen. At the end of the day, if the pro doesn't give you the product you want, go elsewhere. Equally, having someone telling you what you need to do only works if you make a conscious effort to do it.

Good luck.


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## garyinderry (Sep 19, 2019)

Fantastic article on golfwrx at the minute and sums up my my thoughts on lessons and improving your game. 

I've had less than 10 in person lessons in my 10 years of playing this game with a handicap but also watched 1000s of instructional videos so that would add up to a fair bit more than 10 overall. I've been to the range to try differnt things and see what works for me. 
I fully believe people need to go and grind it out if they want to improve. Be that at the range or course. You can't just turn up week after week and do the exact same thing and hope things get better. You need to step out of the box sometimes when practicing.  Like trying to play big massive over draws. Or cut every single shot.  Then you can try to work it back to a more manageable shape. Every time you do this you learn more and you also learn what you can achieve and what suits your game. 
Improving is all about self discovery. I've posted on here many times when I felt I've had a golfing "lightbulb moment" as I called them. Each one a building block of knowledge.  My swing is no pretty picture, doesn't look like a tour pro, doesn't hit the ball miles but I know what I can do and do it reasonably well. There has been plenty of downs along the way. Like uncontrollable hooks, bout of the shanks and years of fats. I've fought them all and come out the other side and better player for it. 
I've told myself and my friends when they were low.  "No one gets any better sitting at home on the couch". 

*INSTRUCTION*
*Clark: On learning golf*





Published
 15 hours ago 

_â€œA true teacher will teach how to think, not what to thinkâ€_
There are several versions of the above adage, but when you teach every day, you get to see this up close and personal. In my opinion, all a teacher can do is to guide you as to what happens when you hit a golf ball. The student has to discover what works for them to achieve better results. It _is_ that simple. The internet is loaded with â€œhow-toâ€ info, and some of it might actually apply to your individual issue, but do yourself a big favor: Go beat some balls and see how it goes; try this, try that, repeat steps one and two!
Letâ€™s take turning as a classic example. If someone were to ask a teacher HOW to turn, there could be a dozen answers. What the teacher, the data, video show is simply this: You are NOT turning. Letâ€™s try this, letâ€™s try that, no, how about this? There are an unlimited number of ways, but the student needs to: FIRST, realize the lack or incorrectness of turn, and SECOND, _find a way to do it. Any way, YOUR way. _This is called participating in your learning and discovering process. _When Ben Hogan said: â€œthe secret is in the dirt,â€ this is precisely what he was referring to. _
I have a short section each day in my golf school dedicated to the ballistics of impact. A student needs to know exactly what happens at impact. And when you know what produces good flight, then find what you personally are doing to violate those laws. How to correct an open and/or closed clubface means nothing to a student who doesnâ€™t know what open or closed actually is, or does. Swing path and its relationship to clubface resulting in ball flight curvature is knowledge every teacher has, but is like rocket science to the student who knows none of this. I once had a student who thought his shanks were coming off the toe! When I told him that just the opposite was happening, he immediately moved away from the ball a little and stopped shanking (there were other reasons he shanked but just *that much* knowledge got him off the hosel!)
In order to correct anything, anything at all, it is first necessary to discover the problem and find a way, any way to correct it. No teacher, book, TV tip, or article can do what you can do for yourself. All the teacher might do is make you _aware of the problem. _But in the end, just go play and try this, that and the other thing. The answer is there, believe me, the answer is in *you*. You have to find it!
The problem, very often, is that golfers are looking for someone to offer them a light bulb moment, a flash of â€œaha,â€ the â€œIâ€™ve-got-it-nowâ€ solution. The aha moment is the only way to get sustained improvement, but it must come from you, the individual. There is no universal _â€œlight-bulb moment,â€ *it is uniquely-yours alone to discover*.  _As Iâ€™ve said before, â€œitâ€™s not what I cover, itâ€™s what you discover.â€ Discover what? That â€œthingâ€ you can grasp and go hit ball after ball until you have, at least to a functional degree, internalized it!
Good luck on your personal journey!
On a personal note, this will be my final article for GolfWRX. I have written 100-plus articles over the last 10 years or so and I have thoroughly enjoyed helping all of you who read my articles.
*If you read through them on some rainy day, youâ€™ll notice a theme: â€œIf this, then that.â€ Meaning: If your golf ball is consistently doing that, try this. *The articles are all archived on this site, and I am writing a book about my life on the lesson tee. It has been a labor of love as my whole career has been. There is no greater joy in my professional life than seeing the look on a golfers face and feel the joy within them when they improve. The minute that slice straightens, or that ground ball goes up in the air, is a special bond and a shared joy in the student-teacher relationship.
But Iâ€™ve said most of what I think is pertinent and anything after this would be redundant. There is now a plethora of how-to info out there, and I personally feel the reader may begin to think he/she should do this or that as opposed to thinking â€œI should try to discover this or that through my own personal exploration.â€
If any of you wish to contact me directly regarding help with your game, you know how to do so. But do remember this: You cannot learn golf from words or pictures. My advice is to get a good teacher to look at you a few times, then go out and find the answer in the dirt. Golf is a game to played. And in that playing, in that trial-and-error process, you will find things that will help you achieve better outcomes. _No one owns this game: We only to get to borrow it from time to time_


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## Roops (Sep 19, 2019)

Great post and pretty much were I have got to with my swing/lessons. Never hit the ball better than I am now.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 30, 2019)

Had an intense 90 minute short game lesson on Saturday (was only supposed to be an hour!!). I'm still flip flopping between linear (which has always felt comfier especially on wedges and bunkers and sat better in my golfing break) and a conventional shot game action. Have stripped a standard action right back to basics, and built up again from posture to rotating with the body (and not the arms dictating as I've tended to do) and feel as though the shot is played on a high to low finish. Rotating the body will also control the spin. Worked hard on those tricky 20-40 yard shots and the chip and run and feel very engaged. Wasn't able to get out and work on it yesterday (nor today looking at the weather) but determined to banish my short game woes for good now.


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## HarrogateHacker (Sep 30, 2019)

Ive recently had a lesson, my first in a long while, having been put off after a lesson I wasnâ€™t too happy with a few years back.  Couldnâ€™t be happier with how it went and itâ€™s already improving my game.


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## bradleywedge (Oct 1, 2019)

Following on from my original post, I decided to have a lesson with a pro recommended to me.

He let me hit a few balls first and watched my swing. He then took a video of the swing from back and side and proceeded to show me, through various lines on the screen, what things were affecting my swing.

The results were immediate, he told me how to adjust my body and although my posture felt uncomfortable at first, told me where I was going wrong. It was an issue I had at address.

I was very happy with the results, so much so I had a follow up lesson this week and my driving has been a lot better off the tee. I just need to work on consistency now.

Now if only I could get out and play......ðŸ™ ðŸŒ§


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## JamesR (Oct 1, 2019)

bradleywedge said:



			Following on from my original post, I decided to have a lesson with a pro recommended to me.

He let me hit a few balls first and watched my swing. He then took a video of the swing from back and side and proceeded to show me, through various lines on the screen, what things were affecting my swing.

The results were immediate, he told me how to adjust my body and although my posture felt uncomfortable at first, told me where I was going wrong. It was an issue I had at address.

I was very happy with the results, so much so I had a follow up lesson this week and my driving has been a lot better off the tee. I just need to work on consistency now.

Now if only I could get out and play......ðŸ™ ðŸŒ§
		
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It's the perfect time to make changes. You can hit the range all winter to practice what you've been told, and film it to compare with what you were shown at the lesson.
Best of luck with the changes


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## jamiet7682 (Oct 2, 2019)

I have just finished my block of 6 beginner group lessons. First thing was adjusting my grip, then worked on some swing fundementals, this has increased consistancy massively but has reduced my distance somewhat, happy to accept that as it will come back as i get more comfortable with the changes.
Last lesson he again adjusted my grip, this seemed to sort out my slice, was hitting the driver straight or even left for the first time, however when i went away on my own to practice i couldnt even hit the ball. 
Have my first one to one lesson booked this week and need to suss out how to integrate the grip change into my game and still be able to hit the ball.
The Joys!!! 
Lessons have definitely helped but with me it was a case of breaking my swing and grip apart and rebuilding from scratch, which is never going to be a quick process.


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## IanM (Oct 2, 2019)

yes, they do.


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## Jensen (Oct 2, 2019)

jamiet7682 said:



			I have just finished my block of 6 beginner group lessons. First thing was adjusting my grip, then worked on some swing fundementals, this has increased consistancy massively but has reduced my distance somewhat, happy to accept that as it will come back as i get more comfortable with the changes.
Last lesson he again adjusted my grip, this seemed to sort out my slice, was hitting the driver straight or even left for the first time, however when i went away on my own to practice i couldnt even hit the ball.
Have my first one to one lesson booked this week and need to suss out how to integrate the grip change into my game and still be able to hit the ball.
The Joys!!!
Lessons have definitely helped but with me it was a case of breaking my swing and grip apart and rebuilding from scratch, which is never going to be a quick process.
		
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What might help with the right grip sensation is some sort of training aid. Like "Leadbetter Swing setter " or similar


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## Bobby19 (Oct 2, 2019)

jamiet7682 said:



			I have just finished my block of 6 beginner group lessons. First thing was adjusting my grip, then worked on some swing fundementals, this has increased consistancy massively but has reduced my distance somewhat, happy to accept that as it will come back as i get more comfortable with the changes.
Last lesson he again adjusted my grip, this seemed to sort out my slice, was hitting the driver straight or even left for the first time, however when i went away on my own to practice i couldnt even hit the ball.
Have my first one to one lesson booked this week and need to suss out how to integrate the grip change into my game and still be able to hit the ball.
The Joys!!!
Lessons have definitely helped but with me it was a case of breaking my swing and grip apart and rebuilding from scratch, which is never going to be a quick process.
		
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I struggled a lot with my grip and had to spend a lot of time on my lessons addressing it.
I ended up buying this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SKLZ-Golf-...ip+trainer&qid=1570030593&sprefix=sklz&sr=8-3

Just used it every time I was practising and eventually it became more natural


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## jamiet7682 (Oct 10, 2019)

I'll have a look at a grip trainer.

I have now finished the block of group beginners lessons, had my first one to one lesson using video analysis. Still working on my grip and the swing fundementals but i am definitely seeing improvement. My scores since starting 2 months ago:

134 (66 over par) @ Brucefields
128 (60 over par) @ Brucefields
124 (56 over par) @ Brucefields
112 (46 over par) @ Brucefields
112 (46 over par) @ Mearns Castle
101 (35 over par) @ Mearns Castle
100 (34 over par) @ Mearns Castle
94 (28 over par) @ Mearns Castle

So seeing pretty steady improvements, 40 shots shaved off in 8 rounds.

Still playing with a slice but the changes to grip and swing should sort that, just need to put the changes into practice and get them ingrained in the natural swing.


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## Backsticks (Oct 10, 2019)

For the long game, they dont, and really, there is no good reason why they should.
Mainly :
 - those who teach tend to do so because  they can play the game well, usually from an early age, but not because they have any deeper understanding of how to play it, let alony convey that to someone else.
 - there is no good understanding of what a best golf swing is in the first place. Teaching tends to ape styles rather than true scientific fundamentals, and there is no consistency to what is peddled as correct

Its as useful for a beginner to pick up and beginners guide book. Beyond that, coaching is only a panacea, that does nothing for the skill itself.

For putting even less. Utterly pointless. (not to mention gimmick/scam stuff like aimpoint).

For the short game, there is some benefit. The basics of a variety of short game shots are well known, can be communicated, and in varying degrees, learnt.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 10, 2019)

Bobby19 said:



			I struggled a lot with my grip and had to spend a lot of time on my lessons addressing it.
I ended up buying this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SKLZ-Golf-...ip+trainer&qid=1570030593&sprefix=sklz&sr=8-3

Just used it every time I was practising and eventually it became more natural
		
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Second this .
I bought one put it on an old club and just worked my hands on it.
Watching telly ,when adverts come on just have a few swings ,
If you do it every day itâ€™s is much easier than when playing / practice it.


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## GB72 (Oct 10, 2019)

My honest opinion is, sometimes. 

As a beginner, yes. Get into good habits early on.

If you are willing to put in the time and effort practicing and are happy to go backwards before going forwards then, again, yes. 

If you are like me, bad habits very ingrained, little practice time and really do not want to waste what little time I get on the course playing bad golf then they are unlikely to work. 

What does amuse me is that some people see lessons as a guaranteed way of improving and that is not the case. Sometimes our skill level and ability have just reached a peak and no matter how many lessons you have, you sometimes have to accept that.


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## bobmac (Oct 10, 2019)

GB72 said:



			My honest opinion is, sometimes.
		
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I hope my tips helped


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## JamesR (Oct 10, 2019)

Backsticks said:



			For the long game, they dont, and really, there is no good reason why they should.
Mainly :
 - those who teach tend to do so because  they can play the game well, usually from an early age, but not because they have any deeper understanding of how to play it, let alony convey that to someone else.
 - there is no good understanding of what a best golf swing is in the first place. Teaching tends to ape styles rather than true scientific fundamentals, and there is no consistency to what is peddled as correct

Its as useful for a beginner to pick up and beginners guide book. Beyond that, coaching is only a panacea, that does nothing for the skill itself.

For putting even less. Utterly pointless. (not to mention gimmick/scam stuff like aimpoint).

For the short game, there is some benefit. The basics of a variety of short game shots are well known, can be communicated, and in varying degrees, learnt.
		
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So if someone has a regular miss, perhaps a big block to the right, which they canâ€™t stop, seeing a professional, who can tell him why itâ€™s happening and how to cure it, is a waste of time money and effort?

They should just get a book ðŸ˜ðŸ¤”ðŸ¤«ðŸ™„












ðŸ‘Ž


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## GB72 (Oct 10, 2019)

bobmac said:



			I hope my tips helped
		
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They did but they were at a time when I played more and had time to practice. With things as they are now, I am less convinced but that is down to my limitations not you.


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## hines57 (Oct 10, 2019)

anotherdouble said:



			Like any form of teaching and learning a practical skill, the outcome is dependent on the amount of practice the student is willing to put in between the lessons. Doesnâ€™t have to be golf, you can attribute the principle to learning to swim, play a musical instrument, computing, cooking etc. if You only rock up for lessons on a weekly, monthly basis then it will be a slow process
		
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+1 for this. I'd recommend having a series of lessons, including a 9-hole playing assessment so that the pro can see where you might be struggling. A good pro will make changes gradually, focusing on the issue most in need of resolution first and not try to change everything at once.


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## badgb21 (Oct 10, 2019)

Even a small change will likely feel massive to your swing. 
Something has to change or nothing will change.
Embrace a lesson (or a few) explain you don't want to radically change and a good pro will show you whats happening (video) and some instruction to work on to remedy.

Once you work on it, you'll feel more back in control of where you ball is going to go.

Don't hesitate. ( I play occasionally with a self diagnoser/"YouTube expert", it's painful, don't be that guy!)





bradleywedge said:



			I have never paid for a golf lesson in my life, I have received advice from pro's on a casual basis but never actually had a proper assessment.

My game has stalled somewhat and I seem to be going backwards if anything. I am loathe to have someone completely change my swing as I am at the stage of my life where I just want to go out and play with a bit of consistency instead of spending half my time looking for my ball off the fairway. I feel I just need a few tweaks here and there, mainly on driving the ball straight and help hitting longer irons.

Do you suggest just a 30/45 min lesson to start just to have my swing assessed, or anything more? What are you looking to pay? I have looked at local PGA pro's and they are looking to charge between Â£40 and Â£50 for an hour lesson, I take it this is the going rate.

Anyone like to share a success story from seeing a teaching pro?
		
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## ademac (Oct 10, 2019)

Of course they work, itâ€™s coaching, the same as any other sport.

Learn technique, work hard at doing the right things and you will improve 99% of the time. 

However not every coach suits every player, the hard part is finding a coach that gets the best out of you.

The best players in the world have coaches.


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## Tab373 (Oct 10, 2019)

for me no not yet. ive had 4 lessons in the last 4 years 1 with a driving range pro. 2 with different pros at courses near me and Mark crossfield.
driving range pro said i was taking the club to far inside on back swing. Mark crossfield said i was taking it to far out on the back swing and 1 club pro said alignment was a issue and the other wanted to work on a flat wrist. All worked for a while but have been struggling of late and not sure who i should go see. Perhaps i should just stick with one of them but my trust has gone as how can 4 pros say all different things. i had group[ lesson when i was a lad and got to 6 i stayed around 6/7 for last 25 years but the last two years have struggled and now off 8 but did change course last year so still getting to know it. im 46 now i would like to have one more push to get to 5 before i except my age. im a shift worker so have 6 days off at a time so i can practice alot and generally sort out my swing myself but tempted to go see someone and tell them to pull my swing apart and start afresh. but who that will be im not sure.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 11, 2019)

ademac said:



			Of course they work, itâ€™s coaching, the same as any other sport.

Learn technique, work hard at doing the right things and you will improve 99% of the time.

However not every coach suits every player, the hard part is finding a coach that gets the best out of you.

The best players in the world have coaches.
		
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This

The biggest issue for me though is while quality of striking can improve sometimes golf can still be unfair and it can still be hard to make scores and move the handicap forward. I have had a number of lessons in 2019 and definitely hitting the ball better and the misses are better and there are less moving parts in the swing and on the days it isn't working the bad scores are now closer to 30 points than the 23-25 I'd get previously. Loads of work to do on the short game (and the lesson I had there) but if you can get a good coach prepared to work within the confines of your physical ability, and not look to totally reinvent the wheel each time, can be open to your input and articulate why changes are being made and demonstrate how they'll help then surely it has to be a positive. Sometimes, the challenge of finding the right coach for you can be a bigger hurdle than refining and improving the swing


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## patricks148 (Oct 11, 2019)

GB72 said:



			My honest opinion is, sometimes.

As a beginner, yes. Get into good habits early on.

If you are willing to put in the time and effort practicing and are happy to go backwards before going forwards then, again, yes.

If you are like me, bad habits very ingrained, little practice time and really do not want to waste what little time I get on the course playing bad golf then they are unlikely to work.

What does amuse me is that some people see lessons as a guaranteed way of improving and that is not the case. Sometimes our skill level and ability have just reached a peak and no matter how many lessons you have, you sometimes have to accept that.
		
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only if you don't work on what the lessons covered, i can't see why if you see a pro and work on changes you can't improve, unless you have Physical issue of course that holding you back


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## Imurg (Oct 11, 2019)

For many it's the amount of work that needs to be done to ingrain the changes made
Having a lesson and hitting a few dozen balls isn't going to do it, especially if the issue is a longstanding one.


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## Grant85 (Oct 11, 2019)

Golf lessons will work for almost everyone at all levels. 

But it depends what you want out of the game. If you want to genuinely improve and you are prepared to practice, then a lesson, or regular lessons, will likely accelerate that process. 
Although obviously everyone will reach a ceiling at some point. 

A good pro will always give you one or two things to focus on after a lesson rather than bombard you with too much at the same time. 

I do get slightly frustrated that a lot of pros are overly keen to focus on the positive and even try and trick you into thinking you are doing better than you are. I guess this is part of the psychology in golf and everyone does it to the extent that it is surely part of the PGA training. 

I had a lesson about 2 months ago when I wanted to work on mid-iron play. I hit the 1st 4 or 5 shots perfect, right down the middle of the range. We kind of looked at each other as if to say 'what are we even doing here?'
We then introduced more defined targets, to try and simulate hitting a green on the course. All of a sudden, with a bit of extra pressure I could barely find the meat of the club-face. 
So that gave us something to work on for the next 40 minutes, in terms of hitting a target, being property aligned and having the confidence to make a good swing without worrying about all the things that could go wrong if I missed the green. 

A few weeks later I had my best ever stroke-play result, winning the September Medal.


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## hovis (Oct 11, 2019)

golf lessons definitely work if the pro is good.  I've had a few golf pros that haven't got a clue and feels like they only have one lesson in them.   how some of them stay afloat is beyond me.

when you find a pro that actually makes changes that work and you see your game improve then hold on and hold on tight.  they are a rare commodity


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## Imurg (Oct 11, 2019)

hovis said:



			golf lessons definitely work if the pro is good.  I've had a few golf pros that haven't got a clue and feels like they only have one lesson in them.   how some of them stay afloat is beyond me.

when you find a pro that actually makes changes that work and you see your game improve then hold on and hold on tight.  they are a rare commodity
		
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But, again, it's down to how much effort you're prepared or able to put into making changes stick.
The best teaching Pro in the world isn't going to help anyone if they don't help themselves by putting in the graft.


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## hovis (Oct 11, 2019)

Imurg said:



			But, again, it's down to how much effort you're prepared or able to put into making changes stick.
The best teaching Pro in the world isn't going to help anyone if they don't help themselves by putting in the graft.
		
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I agree but sometimes it doesn't matter how much effort and practice you apply after a lesson if what they have told you is wrong or isn't the problem.   I remember a friend working on trying to open his hips more at impact for months and months.  he sacked off his pro and went with someone else.  the problem ended up being his open clubface on the downswing.   opening his hips was never going to work.     he worked on his open clubface and the hips fixed automatically


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## Canary Kid (Oct 12, 2019)

I had a couple of lessons to cure my slice.  Told the guy that I was too old to begin all over again, but could he suggest just a couple of things to correct it.  He did and I no longer slice the ball with any club.  Money well spent.  My handicap is still going the wrong way, but not due to slicing the ball!


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## larmen (Oct 12, 2019)

Had a lesson today. Took him 5 minutes to get me going again and then the next 25 minutes we used to grind it in.
My issue is, he fixes me, but I keep losing it again and again after a short while. I should be booking 5 minute lessons before a round, that would be useful ;-)


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## Rlburnside (Oct 12, 2019)

Canary Kid said:



			I had a couple of lessons to cure my slice.  Told the guy that I was too old to begin all over again, but could he suggest just a couple of things to correct it.  He did and I no longer slice the ball with any club.  Money well spent.  My handicap is still going the wrong way, but not due to slicing the ball!
		
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I am in a similar position as you so would be interested in what tips the pro gave you, I was looking online last night for tips but when I played today I topped 3 drives that went no distance, that is something I rarely do.


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## bradleywedge (Oct 14, 2019)

jamiet7682 said:



			I'll have a look at a grip trainer.

I have now finished the block of group beginners lessons, had my first one to one lesson using video analysis. Still working on my grip and the swing fundementals but i am definitely seeing improvement. My scores since starting 2 months ago:

134 (66 over par) @ Brucefields
128 (60 over par) @ Brucefields
124 (56 over par) @ Brucefields
112 (46 over par) @ Brucefields
112 (46 over par) @ Mearns Castle
101 (35 over par) @ Mearns Castle
100 (34 over par) @ Mearns Castle
94 (28 over par) @ Mearns Castle

So seeing pretty steady improvements, 40 shots shaved off in 8 rounds.

Still playing with a slice but the changes to grip and swing should sort that, just need to put the changes into practice and get them ingrained in the natural swing.
		
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Wouldn't be too bothered about scores mate, just go out and concentrate on hitting some nice shots, pick up the odd par here and there, take something out of each round.

I was always told not to bother with my score when I first started playing, you tend to become over obsessed with it, and more pressure comes with that. You will know when you're playing well then the consistency will come. Pointless counting your 8's 9's and 10's on holes, they don't count in handicap assessments anyway, 3 over par on the hole is the maximum they acknowledge I think. No doubt someone will be along shortly to put me right on that one anyway!


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## Grant85 (Oct 14, 2019)

Also worth analysing your strategy, if you are one of those players that is always looking to get the handicap down and have reached a plateau. 

The number of people I see go Driver > 3 wood at all long holes and end up losing shots is incredible. Especially on Par 5s where there is no need. The chances of hitting a green 230 yards away is very low, and it's pretty remote even from nearer 200 for most amateurs. i.e. the chance of a 3 or a 2 putt 4 is very slim, so why bring 6 into play? 230 yards is probably an easy 7 iron and a wee pitch on for most players. Much lower risk shots and you will get far more satisfaction from hitting two comfy iron shots under pressure, compared with putting all the marbles that one swing of a 3 wood comes off. 

Obviously depends on the hole. We have four long par 4s and two short Par 5s. The Par 4s have a bit more room around the green, so less trouble if you miss. The Par 5s narrow up considerably at the green and make a 2 shot approach very high risk. 

There's a psychology about the amateur golfer that they want to take every shot on. But you have to think about where your miss is. If you typically hook a fairway wood and the hole narrows up towards the green (which is fairly common strategy) then every time you try that shot on, you are just asking for trouble down the left. 

Also think how many people play under the SSS in a medal. It's probably not many - often fewer than 5% or 10% of the field. So basically take the big numbers out of play and you'll give yourself a chance to make a score on the greens.

If you have a decent pro at your club, then see if he offers a playing lesson. Potentially far more valuable and rewarding compared to banging balls up a driving range for an hour.  Especially if you have been playing for years and know your swing and would be wary of making big changes and putting the hours in.


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## jamiet7682 (Oct 14, 2019)

bradleywedge said:



			Wouldn't be too bothered about scores mate, just go out and concentrate on hitting some nice shots, pick up the odd par here and there, take something out of each round.

I was always told not to bother with my score when I first started playing, you tend to become over obsessed with it, and more pressure comes with that. You will know when you're playing well then the consistency will come. Pointless counting your 8's 9's and 10's on holes, they don't count in handicap assessments anyway, 3 over par on the hole is the maximum they acknowledge I think. No doubt someone will be along shortly to put me right on that one anyway!
		
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Thanks for the advice, I like to keep score so I have a record of sorts of my progress but I am not overly hard on myself. I pretty much aim for double bogey on every hole, have started to see the pars increasing and the absolute blow ups reducing so I know I am making progress regardless of overall score. 

Happy with my play from 120 yards out, its just getting to that point on that is the struggle as I struggle for distance. topping out at 140 yards with 3W off the tee. I'm hoping as I continue to work on my swing at lessons the distance will come and the slice will disappear. 

I think once I can hit a tee shot in the region of 200 yards and straight I will be see massive improvements in my scoring.


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## Jensen (Oct 14, 2019)

I'm yet to find a Pro who has really bowled me over. I've seen plenty and unfortunately I find that good players make lousy coaches. Most will just teach you to swing how they do and one size does certainly not fit all. We are all different builds, some have short arms and long legs and vice versa.
I've picked up useful bits here and there, but overly I've not been impressed.
There are certainly some good teachers out there, but it's hard to find them and prove a costly long process to find them.
I've found some good advice/tips on YouTube, however again this can be a very long and frustrating experience.
My view is if you find a good pro who can coach and teaches the golfer and not a method then they are worth their weight in gold.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 14, 2019)

larmen said:



			Had a lesson today. Took him 5 minutes to get me going again and then the next 25 minutes we used to grind it in.
My issue is, he fixes me, but I keep losing it again and again after a short while. I should be booking 5 minute lessons before a round, that would be useful ;-)
		
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This could be me. I always hit the ball beautifully, within the limits of my level, within minutes of the advice being given. Being able to repeat it at a later date is the harder bit. It is usually only a slight tweak that is needed, no more than 5 minutes of time as you say. Great post.


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## GB72 (Oct 14, 2019)

patricks148 said:



			only if you don't work on what the lessons covered, i can't see why if you see a pro and work on changes you can't improve, unless you have Physical issue of course that holding you back
		
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I suppose that this is my point. I am realistic in that I do not have time to practice much, if at all, and get to play maybe once or twice a week. The enjoyment of that round is important to me and so I do not want to spend a few weeks playing badly whilst I try and grind in a change, nor do I want to give up that round for more practice. As such, I have reached the conclusion that my circumstances and attitude to golf do not really make lessons a great benefit for me. I appreciate that I am going to plateau where I am, steady but with the occasional very good and occasional very bad round but I have not got the time to commit to really improving. Even harder now as I am trying to get fitter so what little practice time I may have had is now gym time.


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## bradleywedge (Oct 14, 2019)

Grant85 said:



			Also worth analysing your strategy, if you are one of those players that is always looking to get the handicap down and have reached a plateau.

The number of people I see go Driver > 3 wood at all long holes and end up losing shots is incredible. Especially on Par 5s where there is no need. The chances of hitting a green 230 yards away is very low, and it's pretty remote even from nearer 200 for most amateurs. i.e. the chance of a 3 or a 2 putt 4 is very slim, so why bring 6 into play? 230 yards is probably an easy 7 iron and a wee pitch on for most players. Much lower risk shots and you will get far more satisfaction from hitting two comfy iron shots under pressure, compared with putting all the marbles that one swing of a 3 wood comes off.

Obviously depends on the hole. We have four long par 4s and two short Par 5s. The Par 4s have a bit more room around the green, so less trouble if you miss. The Par 5s narrow up considerably at the green and make a 2 shot approach very high risk.

There's a psychology about the amateur golfer that they want to take every shot on. But you have to think about where your miss is. If you typically hook a fairway wood and the hole narrows up towards the green (which is fairly common strategy) then every time you try that shot on, you are just asking for trouble down the left.

Also think how many people play under the SSS in a medal. It's probably not many - often fewer than 5% or 10% of the field. So basically take the big numbers out of play and you'll give yourself a chance to make a score on the greens.

If you have a decent pro at your club, then see if he offers a playing lesson. Potentially far more valuable and rewarding compared to banging balls up a driving range for an hour.  Especially if you have been playing for years and know your swing and would be wary of making big changes and putting the hours in.
		
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Good advice Grant, and very sensibly explained.


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## Canary Kid (Oct 14, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			I am in a similar position as you so would be interested in what tips the pro gave you, I was looking online last night for tips but when I played today I topped 3 drives that went no distance, that is something I rarely do.
		
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(a) He slightly narrowed my stance and moved me closer to the ball (b) he pointed out that the marker on the head of the driver was not exactly aligned with the ball (I thought it was ... optical illusion) and (c) probably most importantly, he got me rotating my shoulders which resulted in my arms coming up under my chin during the swing. It worked for me, but your issues could of course be different.  Good luck with solving it.


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## Rlburnside (Oct 14, 2019)

Canary Kid said:



			(a) He slightly narrowed my stance and moved me closer to the ball (b) he pointed out that the marker on the head of the driver was not exactly aligned with the ball (I thought it was ... optical illusion) and (c) probably most importantly, he got me rotating my shoulders which resulted in my arms coming up under my chin during the swing. It worked for me, but your issues could of course be different.  Good luck with solving it.
		
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Itâ€™s not been a major problem for me but sometimes I might slice a couple of times during a round, but today I didnâ€™t slice once, I think your last point is something I need to make sure I do as sometimes I donâ€™t make a good enough turn. 

Letâ€™s hope we can keep them straight ðŸ‘


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 15, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			Itâ€™s not been a major problem for me but sometimes I might slice a couple of times during a round, but today I didnâ€™t slice once, I think your last point is something I need to make sure I do as sometimes I donâ€™t make a good enough turn.

Letâ€™s hope we can keep them straight ðŸ‘
		
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Turn was the big thing in my last lesson last Wednesday. I wasn't making a full turn and was too quick into transition. Worked hard on feeling as though the back was pointing at the target on the backswing and the left shoulder was over the right shoe and that I made the turn fully and properly before turning into the shot. The biggest difference when it went right was getting the club head speed up from 92-93 to and average of 96-97 (and several on the 100mph mark) with a 7 iron but dispersion remained constant and in fact hit three line balls (including one with the 100mph swing speed) and as a result was seeing some extra distance


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## chrisd (Oct 15, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Turn was the big thing in my last lesson last Wednesday. I wasn't making a full turn and was too quick into transition. Worked hard on feeling as though the back was pointing at the target on the backswing and the left shoulder was over the right shoe and that I made the turn fully and properly before turning into the shot. The biggest difference when it went right was getting the club head speed up from 92-93 to and average of 96-97 (and several on the 100mph mark) with a 7 iron but dispersion remained constant and in fact hit three line balls (including one with the 100mph swing speed) and as a result was seeing some extra distance
		
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Funny, it's quite the opposite for me. 

My pro has himself been taking some 3d lessons and now sees the swing quite differently.  He reckoned that I was turning to 90Â° too quickly and so we worked on much less shoulder turn early in the backswing which apparently saves a bit of turn to use in the start of the downswing. I certainly found it was a much easier swing, with a slower backswing and transition. I now dont have such a feeling as being wound tight at the top and the downswing gathering speed rather than firing from the top.  Out the next day in a comp I easily hit the 5 iron around 195 yards with a gentle draw and what felt (but wasnt) a much slower swing than before. He now just wants my left arm closer to my chest during the downswing (I'm right handed) to improve accuracy in delivering the club face along the chosen path 

I was also able to fault find better in that any hooky draw came where my club was a bit too much from the inside, and the odd slice for which the issue was the opposite.


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## pendodave (Oct 15, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Turn was the big thing in my last lesson last Wednesday. I wasn't making a full turn and was too quick into transition. Worked hard on feeling as though the back was pointing at the target on the backswing and the left shoulder was over the right shoe and that I made the turn fully and properly before turning into the shot. The biggest difference when it went right was getting the club head speed up from 92-93 to and average of 96-97 (and several on the 100mph mark) with a 7 iron but dispersion remained constant and in fact hit three line balls (including one with the 100mph swing speed) and as a result was seeing some extra distance
		
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Not wanting to be picky hjs, but that's faster than my driver swing .....


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## bobmac (Oct 15, 2019)

pendodave said:



			Not wanting to be picky hjs, but that's faster than my driver swing .....
		
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And mine


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## chrisd (Oct 15, 2019)

pendodave said:



			Not wanting to be picky hjs, but that's faster than my driver swing .....
		
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And mine,  

Tour average 7 iron is 90 mph !


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 15, 2019)

pendodave said:



			Not wanting to be picky hjs, but that's faster than my driver swing .....
		
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And it isn't something I'd necessarily want to take to the course. The idea behind the lesson and the much faster swing speed was to get a feeling of the correct down turn and really releasing the hands through input. It goes back to what you'd teach a young kid taking golf up. Learn to hit it as hard as they can and then straighten the direction later. As a disclaimer, it was measured via Topgolf and not his usual launch monitor (which apparently went bang with black smoke coming out - sounds expensive!) and have a feeling it may be ball speed and not club speed. I will double check the exact data


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## Bxm Foxy (Oct 15, 2019)

PGA Tour pro's about 90mph with a 7 iron I think.


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## Rlburnside (Oct 15, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And it isn't something I'd necessarily want to take to the course. The idea behind the lesson and the much faster swing speed was to get a feeling of the correct down turn and really releasing the hands through input. It goes back to what you'd teach a young kid taking golf up. Learn to hit it as hard as they can and then straighten the direction later. As a disclaimer, it was measured via Topgolf and not his usual launch monitor (which apparently went bang with black smoke coming out - sounds expensive!) and have a feeling it may be ball speed and not club speed. I will double check the exact data
		
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Iâ€™m a bit surprised your pro has got you swinging faster, although the idea is to get you to turn and release better swinging faster will surely become ingrained something you really don't need. 
Itâ€™s not that long ago the top 25 coach was trying to get you to shorten your swing and get a better tempo.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 16, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			Iâ€™m a bit surprised your pro has got you swinging faster, although the idea is to get you to turn and release better swinging faster will surely become ingrained something you really don't need.
Itâ€™s not that long ago the top 25 coach was trying to get you to shorten your swing and get a better tempo.
		
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Whatever he was trying to get me to do has clicked. 17 points on the tougher back nine straight out of work, off the train, out the cab and onto the course with no warm up or loosening. Even started with a double for a single point and then started hitting it nicely including an approach to 6 feet from 100 yards for birdie on the 15th. I need to go back to the pro, but it seems the faster swing is actually as a result of making a better and fuller turn and the by product is I am giving myself more time to turn back and as a result a better tempo back and through. The speed seems to come without actually trying to force it but through a better release. I want to double check that what I felt last night is what we were looking to achieve and that the faster swinging wasn't simply something he wanted to get me doing


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## Rlburnside (Oct 16, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Whatever he was trying to get me to do has clicked. 17 points on the tougher back nine straight out of work, off the train, out the cab and onto the course with no warm up or loosening. Even started with a double for a single point and then started hitting it nicely including an approach to 6 feet from 100 yards for birdie on the 15th. I need to go back to the pro, but it seems the faster swing is actually as a result of making a better and fuller turn and the by product is I am giving myself more time to turn back and as a result a better tempo back and through. The speed seems to come without actually trying to force it but through a better release. I want to double check that what I felt last night is what we were looking to achieve and that the faster swinging wasn't simply something he wanted to get me doing
		
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Good to hear I hope it lasts, but I think the faster you swing the harder it is to square the club face at impact and will lead to nothing but inconsistency. 
I have a friend who has the fastest swing speed Iâ€™ve seen on anyone heâ€™s the same  handicap as me and drives the ball around 60 yards farther than me, he had 42 points yesterday but that was the first decent score heâ€™s had every other round heâ€™s so inconsistent because he swings to fast itâ€™s almost impossible to get the club face square at impact.


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## hovis (Oct 16, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			Good to hear I hope it lasts, but I think the faster you swing the harder it is to square the club face at impact and will lead to nothing but inconsistency. 
I have a friend who has the fastest swing speed Iâ€™ve seen on anyone heâ€™s the same  handicap as me and drives the ball around 60 yards farther than me, he had 42 points yesterday but that was the first decent score heâ€™s had every other round heâ€™s so inconsistent because he swings to fast itâ€™s almost impossible to get the club face square at impact.
		
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rory, dustin and Brooks manage just fine.   a fast swing speed does make it harder to square the face at all.  it does make harder to get away with an open or closed club face at impact though as 10% off line for a 300 yard drive is 30 yards and only 20 for a 200 yard drive giving the illusion that the bigger hitter is less accurate.  
for some people swinging harder will help as it ensures you use your body better and achieve a more natural release


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## Rlburnside (Oct 16, 2019)

hovis said:



			rory, dustin and Brooks manage just fine.   a fast swing speed does make it harder to square the face at all.  it does make harder to get away with an open or closed club face at impact though as 10% off line for a 300 yard drive is 30 yards and only 20 for a 200 yard drive giving the illusion that the bigger hitter is less accurate. 
for some people swinging harder will help as it ensures you use your body better and achieve a more natural release
		
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That made me laugh donâ€™t think because Rory etc can do it means we can. 
A open or closed club face at address is surely the same as trying to have the club face square at impact. 

The faster you swing must make it harder to square the club face, so imo unless you have very good hand eye coordination and are decent player most would get better results swinging
Slower.


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## Curls (Oct 16, 2019)

Maybe itâ€™s just that heâ€™s not steering it any more? Focusing on getting through impact with speed takes your mind off not hook-pulling it out of bounds left or slicing into the drink right. I think lots of people donâ€™t realise they subconsciously over steer especially off the tee and would be better off building a routine that frees their mind of negativity. If your mind is focusing on OOb left, you end up swinging around yourself and flinging it left. Either a target in the distance or - like Homer - the impact zone - is a better place for your mind to be imo. The key word for me was â€œreleaseâ€. That to me means heâ€™s swinging through the ball and not at it. Keep it up Homer whatever works, works. End of. The trick is keeping it working long term ðŸ‘ðŸ»


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## hovis (Oct 16, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			That made me laugh donâ€™t think because Rory etc can do it means we can. 
A open or closed club face at address is surely the same as trying to have the club face square at impact. 

The faster you swing must make it harder to square the club face, so imo unless you have very good hand eye coordination and are decent player most would get better results swinging
Slower.
		
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i dont think you understand the concept of how a clubface squares to the target line.  if you are trying to generate speed by throwing you hands and the ball then you are correct.  it would take alot of coordination to square the face.     if you have a fast swing and missing the planet then swing speed is not the culprit.  it's turning an pivoting correctly to allow the clubface to work naturally. 

perhaps YouTube search for "rate of club face closure" and see for yourself


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 16, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			Good to hear I hope it lasts, but I think the faster you swing the harder it is to square the club face at impact and will lead to nothing but inconsistency.
I have a friend who has the fastest swing speed Iâ€™ve seen on anyone
		
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There was a guy I played in a club match against Tylney Park recently who swung the club at ridiculous speed. I thought on occasions he was going to swing off his feet. It was just such a quick and what looked a very aggressive swing at the ball and he struggled on the front nine. However once he clicked on the back nine, it went for miles and he played some excellent golf. For me, I couldn't or wouldn't want to swing that hard and fast - it seemed to an extreme - and he's front nine showed how it could go badly wrong went the timing wasn't dialled in. That's before the physical limitations of my old and creaking body


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## Rlburnside (Oct 16, 2019)

hovis said:



			i dont think you understand the concept of how a clubface squares to the target line.  if you are trying to generate speed by throwing you hands and the ball then you are correct.  it would take alot of coordination to square the face.     if you have a fast swing and missing the planet then swing speed is not the culprit.  it's turning an pivoting correctly to allow the clubface to work naturally.

perhaps YouTube search for "rate of club face closure" and see for yourself
		
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I watched one, no I should say part of one god that was a bore, I might not understand all the technical aspects of the swing but what I think is the bigger and faster a swing is ,it must make it harder to square the clubface at impact.


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## Rlburnside (Oct 16, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			There was a guy I played in a club match against Tylney Park recently who swung the club at ridiculous speed. I thought on occasions he was going to swing off his feet. It was just such a quick and what looked a very aggressive swing at the ball and he struggled on the front nine. However once he clicked on the back nine, it went for miles and he played some excellent golf. For me, I couldn't or wouldn't want to swing that hard and fast - it seemed to an extreme - and he's front nine showed how it could go badly wrong went the timing wasn't dialled in. That's before the physical limitations of my old and creaking body
		
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That sounds like my mate ðŸ˜‚  We had a pro come up in the summer and he advised my friend to slow down his swing, he tried for a while and couldn't do it and went back to swinging fast, he showed me some impact marks on his driver and they were all over the place, it's a pity as he could be a lot lower h/c if he just slowed down a bit, it's frustrating watching him sometimes as I know there's a good player in there.


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## Grant85 (Oct 16, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			That sounds like my mate ðŸ˜‚  We had a pro come up in the summer and he advised my friend to slow down his swing, he tried for a while and couldn't do it and went back to swinging fast, he showed me some impact marks on his driver and they were all over the place, it's a pity as he could be a lot lower h/c if he just slowed down a bit, it's frustrating watching him sometimes as I know there's a good player in there.
		
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While it's horses for courses, the method to teach the youngsters these days is 1st of all get them some speed, then work out how to keep it in the park. As basically it's very difficult to generate speed when you have already learned to play the game. 

I am certainly frustrated that I don't hit it further, but am certainly above average distance wise for my handicap. However when you see a guy who hits it long and straight, it makes a mockery of some holes where distance is always a factor and there is always something in there that says 'if I could just hit it a little bit further'.


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## Rlburnside (Oct 16, 2019)

I'm part of a team that coach youngsters we have around 40 and we don't coach them to swing fast, you are maybe speaking of older children ours range from 6 to 12 year olds.

I agree we would all like more distance and it certainly makes the game easier if your a big hitter, but you have to be realistic and know that playing from the fairway is the way to score well.


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## Backsticks (Oct 16, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			The faster you swing must make it harder to square the club face, so imo unless you have very good hand eye coordination and are decent player most would get better results swinging
Slower.
		
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I am not sure that is the case at all. It has a certainly intuitive sense that to do things with precision, if we do them more slowly, we will have more control and so less variation. But that the problem with so much golf swing theory. Its waffle and half baked ideas. The evidence is more that those who have fast swings, are the better golfers. And not just because the hit it further, but because the are more accurate too. Physically, it is perfectly concievable, that it is the same strength and muscle speed, that achieves the high club heat speed at impact, is a critical factor in being able to keep the clubhead the desired path rather than 'wandering' and so hitting the ball less consistently.


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## Rlburnside (Oct 16, 2019)

Backsticks said:



			I am not sure that is the case at all. It has a certainly intuitive sense that to do things with precision, if we do them more slowly, we will have more control and so less variation. But that the problem with so much golf swing theory. Its waffle and half baked ideas. The evidence is more that those who have fast swings, are the better golfers. And not just because the hit it further, but because the are more accurate too. Physically, it is perfectly concievable, that it is the same strength and muscle speed, that achieves the high club heat speed at impact, is a critical factor in being able to keep the clubhead the desired path rather than 'wandering' and so hitting the ball less consistently.
		
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Is this evidence of players with faster swing speeds are better players ment to be the pros? If so I would agree with you.  But for the rest of us the players with faster swing speeds Iâ€™ve seen over the years 
for the most part are the more inconsistent. 
I also agree there is plenty of waffle spoken about the golf swing.


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## Backsticks (Oct 16, 2019)

Rlburnside said:



			Is this evidence of players with faster swing speeds are better players ment to be the pros? If so I would agree with you.  But for the rest of us the players with faster swing speeds Iâ€™ve seen over the years
for the most part are the more inconsistent.
I also agree there is plenty of waffle spoken about the golf swing.
		
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Pros included but not exclusively. 
While we can all quote exceptions, and even some of those probably coming from a confirmation bias, I think there is a strong correlation between clubhead speed/distance, and, both golf level (handicap or onward onto the pro world), and the consistency with which the ball is hit. (speaking purely of the long game here, obviously shortgame skill, putting, variety of shots, competitive experience, cool head, strategy, etc matter in the overall package).
There is no such thing as the single figure golfer who only drive it max 150 yards, but doesnt spread it more than a few yards off line. Nor the guy who can drive it 300 yards but cant hit a fairway and so plays of 30.
The long game is about consistency and distance but they are two sides of the same coin. One often hears of the person claim they can hit it well, but just needs to be a bit more consistent. This is an illusion - consitency is good golf. The good shots are not proof that they could can do it, and so if they could make that shot happen more frequently they would be playing to their true potential. The good shots are just the good end of the spectrum of the erratic level they play to.
Pros just preach the cosmetics of how successful golf swings look - they dont truly understand what makes that swing work. But like the stopped clock being right twice a day, sometimes provoke an improvement in their student.


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## Rlburnside (Oct 16, 2019)

Backsticks said:



			Pros included but not exclusively.
While we can all quote exceptions, and even some of those probably coming from a confirmation bias, I think there is a strong correlation between clubhead speed/distance, and, both golf level (handicap or onward onto the pro world), and the consistency with which the ball is hit. (speaking purely of the long game here, obviously shortgame skill, putting, variety of shots, competitive experience, cool head, strategy, etc matter in the overall package).
There is no such thing as the single figure golfer who only drive it max 150 yards, but doesnt spread it more than a few yards off line. Nor the guy who can drive it 300 yards but cant hit a fairway and so plays of 30.
The long game is about consistency and distance but they are two sides of the same coin. One often hears of the person claim they can hit it well, but just needs to be a bit more consistent. This is an illusion - consitency is good golf. The good shots are not proof that they could can do it, and so if they could make that shot happen more frequently they would be playing to their true potential. The good shots are just the good end of the spectrum of the erratic level they play to.
Pros just preach the cosmetics of how successful golf swings look - they dont truly understand what makes that swing work. But like the stopped clock being right twice a day, sometimes provoke an improvement in their student.
		
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I read your first paragraph and found it hard to follow, not sure about the rest of your post so found it difficult to respond.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 17, 2019)

Whatever is going on is still working. Played the front nine last night and scored ok. Didn't hit it as well as the previous night but the two ball putter back in the bag and working and the short game was on point. Pulled a pink tee out of the pocket on the 3rd and thought I'd give it a go rather than a longer wooden tee and hit it great. Proceeded to use it on the other driving holes and hit it great. Maybe having it a little lower helped. The only downside was the pitching from 50-60 yards but I'll keep grinding that out in practice


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## Orikoru (Oct 17, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Whatever is going on is still working. Played the front nine last night and scored ok. Didn't hit it as well as the previous night but the two ball putter back in the bag and working and the short game was on point. *Pulled a pink tee out of the pocket on the 3rd and thought I'd give it a go rather than a longer wooden tee and hit it great.* Proceeded to use it on the other driving holes and hit it great. Maybe having it a little lower helped. The only downside was the pitching from 50-60 yards but I'll keep grinding that out in practice
		
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As a side point because that reminded me, when I did my driver fitting recently I told him I was using orange castle tees, but after a few hits he ended up switching me down to pinks as he said I was getting too much spin. While I do love my new driver so I have no regrets, a little part of me wondered if I would have been longer with the old driver simply by switching tees.   I originally went up to orange because I was hitting everything thin and low off the pinks for a while so the higher tees helped, but I've gone with what he said and gone back to pinks now. It is certainly a better flight if I hit it properly.


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## Springveldt (Oct 18, 2019)

larmen said:



			Had a lesson today. Took him 5 minutes to get me going again and then the next 25 minutes we used to grind it in.
My issue is, he fixes me, but I keep losing it again and again after a short while. I should be booking 5 minute lessons before a round, that would be useful ;-)
		
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My issue is that I don't lose it as such, I end up over doing it.

An example would be with my irons I was pulling everything left. I thought I was coming in too steep and over the top but Trackman showed it was the complete opposite. I was 6 inside to out and really shallow (think less than 1 down with a 7 iron). The big pulls left where me fatting the ball and closing the face over. So my whole lesson was basically grooving a feeling of coming in steeper and more out to in. During the lesson I could never actually get an out to in path, best I got was back to neutral on a couple of them.

Fast forward 6 weeks to another lesson and my 7 iron was now 5 out to in, with 6 down. I was basically overdoing the feeling without even realising.


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## Springveldt (Oct 18, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Turn was the big thing in my last lesson last Wednesday. I wasn't making a full turn and was too quick into transition. Worked hard on feeling as though the back was pointing at the target on the backswing and the left shoulder was over the right shoe and that I made the turn fully and properly before turning into the shot. The biggest difference when it went right was getting the club head speed up from 92-93 to and average of 96-97 (and several on the 100mph mark) with a 7 iron but dispersion remained constant and in fact hit three line balls (including one with the 100mph swing speed) and as a result was seeing some extra distance
		
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That's really, really fast. Would give you a driver speed of 120+ mph.

Wouldn't like to be in a long driver contest with you.


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## larmen (Oct 18, 2019)

Springveldt said:



			Fast forward 6 weeks to another lesson and my 7 iron was now 5 out to in, with 6 down. I was basically overdoing the feeling without even realising.
		
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I think we all have that. My working theory is that chasing a feeling goes out of the door once you are in the right spot. I chase taking it further back, but once in the correct place where it should feel normal I am still chasing the feeling of taking it further back. Next session is taking it further up front. ...

Crossfield just did a video on the take away, I should do it visually in the garden without a ball.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 19, 2019)

Absolutely. 40 points and a handicap cut and everything clicking....................at the moment


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## jamiet7682 (Oct 22, 2019)

Just had my second one to one lesson with Iain at Mearns Castle, still working on my grip, really having to exagerate what feels like a stupidly strong grip to get myself in a neutral position, this is because my default grip was so weak. 
Also worked on my right arm at take away, my action was like someone staring a pull cord lawmower, so worked on using the wrist, then elbow and keeping my palm to the ground. 
Seen immediate improvement, was hitting my 7 iron straight and well over 100 yards, usually max out at about 110 and never get that clean contact.
Hopefully get to the range this week to work on the changes, but every time i do that I usually end up over thinking everything and forget to actually hit the ball.
I tend to find the changes just naturally bleed into my swing over time, trying to force them in immediately after the lesson doesnt work, i just keep them in my mind and find that my swing will just change naturally over the next week or so to incorporate them.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 22, 2019)

Best ever gross on the front nine, functioning short game and second the next day in the roll up. Very happy with my progress and looking forward to my next lesson and refining and honing even further


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## Orikoru (Oct 22, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Best ever gross on the front nine, functioning short game and second the next day in the roll up. Very happy with my progress and looking forward to my next lesson and refining and honing even further
		
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I don't mean to poke, but I find it interesting that you attribute any good performance to lessons, even though you have lessons all year round seemingly, and most weeks you're telling us how your golf game didn't click or go how you'd like. How can you be sure any improvement is down to lessons if you have them come rain or shine?


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 22, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I don't mean to poke, but I find it interesting that you attribute any good performance to lessons, even though you have lessons all year round seemingly, and most weeks you're telling us how your golf game didn't click or go how you'd like. How can you be sure any improvement is down to lessons if you have them come rain or shine?
		
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Not had too many swing lessons this year at all. In fact got an email telling me to start using them as HID got them for Christmas and they were supposed to be all used by September. We had a really good (and intense) lesson on the short game and while it still ebbs and flows when it was on as per the weekend the evidence of why he wanted me to change and the quality was there. He never re-invents the wheel with the long game and something we worked on in the last lesson seemed to resonate with the golfing brain. Definitely not a cas of lessons all year round


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## larmen (Oct 22, 2019)

Back to the range today, and most of the stuff that didn't work worked fine. Managed to hit reasonably well from 3H down to 7i, and "good" from 8i down.
No idea what happens to the driver or 3 wood. Well, the 3 wood has a new shaft so I have an excuse for that, but the driver is the same as always.


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## Mel Smooth (Oct 27, 2019)

The boy is having his first lesson over here tomorrow. Looked at geting him in an academy but they tend to run on Saturdays which would clash with his football, so I've decided to follow the same path as I took back in the UK when he was having lessons at Cleckheaton GC.
Got two courses nearby and I was unsure which to take him to, as the pro at Vistabella stopped us on the course a few weeks back and gave Jamie some very complimentary advice, but, we've another course (La Finca) which is a little closer. Decided to check the pro's credentials out and he seems to have some decent testimonials. ;-)

https://www.andreugolf.com/en/testimonies/ 

We'll see how he gets on tomorrow, he learnt loads from Lee Shepherd back in the UK, so hopefully he can carry on where he left off, and of course, his old man will be sat there trying to pick up a few scraps of useful info as well.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 27, 2019)

Mel Smooth said:



			The boy is having his first lesson over here tomorrow. Looked at geting him in an academy but they tend to run on Saturdays which would clash with his football, so I've decided to follow the same path as I took back in the UK when he was having lessons at Cleckheaton GC.
Got two courses nearby and I was unsure which to take him to, as the pro at Vistabella stopped us on the course a few weeks back and gave Jamie some very complimentary advice, but, we've another course (La Finca) which is a little closer. Decided to check the pro's credentials out and he seems to have some decent testimonials. ;-)

https://www.andreugolf.com/en/testimonies/

We'll see how he gets on tomorrow, he learnt loads from Lee Shepherd back in the UK, so hopefully he can carry on where he left off, and of course, his old man will be sat there trying to pick up a few scraps of useful info as well.
		
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Hope he enjoys it and it clicks for him. Make sure he works hard at the drills he's given and get him out on the course as often as he can to see how it holds together.


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## Swinglowandslow (Oct 28, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			As a side point because that reminded me, when I did my driver fitting recently I told him I was using orange castle tees, but after a few hits he ended up switching me down to pinks as he said I was getting too much spin. While I do love my new driver so I have no regrets, a little part of me wondered if I would have been longer with the old driver simply by switching tees.   I originally went up to orange because I was hitting everything thin and low off the pinks for a while so the higher tees helped, but I've gone with what he said and gone back to pinks now. It is certainly a better flight if I hit it properly.
		
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I find that this is a good point, which I suspect is not addressed by many.
Other things being equal, I found that getting the ball teed at the right height made a lot of difference to how well the ball was struck.
Within limits, the ball teed at the low end rather than high was better for me.
On the range recently, my striking has improved so much since I concentrated on getting the right shoulder as low as possible on the downswing. Made things straighter. It also made the tee height very important.
So, yes, a very good point.
And about the old driver. Since the right shoulder  etc, I've gone back to the old driver. The new one wasn't the answer. sorryðŸ˜


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## Dan2501 (Oct 28, 2019)

Not had a lesson for over a year. Handicap came down last year, but didn't play good golf for most of the season, couple of good rounds at the end of the season lost me a shot. Time to sort it out. Coach at my club is running unlimited lessons for all of winter so signed up for that and have my first lesson on Friday, looking forward to seeing how many stupid flaws I've added to my swing in the last year   Hoping a load of lessons and practice over winter will set me up to get down to 10 next year, that's the goal.


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## stefanovic (Oct 28, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Coach at my club is running unlimited lessons for all of winter so signed up for that and have my first lesson on Friday, looking forward to seeing how many stupid flaws I've added to my swing in the last year. Hoping a load of lessons and practice over winter will set me up to get down to 10 next year, that's the goal.
		
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Isn't that the way lessons work? Fixing one fault just leads to another. So back for more lessons. 
No wonder coaches get rich.
For faults and fixes you could try reading David Leadbetter. He should know, but like a pro once told me 'The problem was he couldn't actually do it himself.'
So it's a bit like the placebo effect - if you think the medicine works it probably will, for a while.
At least I did get down to 10 without any lessons, so I saved a bit there.


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## Mel Smooth (Oct 28, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Hope he enjoys it and it clicks for him. Make sure he works hard at the drills he's given and get him out on the course as often as he can to see how it holds together.
		
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It was good.
The lad has a tendency to push his shots to the right, particularly with the driver. Basically, he needs to over emphasize swinging out to in, to get rid of the in to out swing he currently has, which will blight him forever if it isn't nipped in the bud.
Hit some nice 7 irons about 110 yards - which I don't think is bad for a 9 year old kid, then when asked to hit the driver, he striped the first one straight down the driving range with just a touch of draw.
The pro was also teaching him some spanish as well, so I definitely got my moneys worth - which as a tight Yorkshireman was massively appreciated. ;-)

Hope he appreciates how fortunate he is, being taught how to play golf by a bloke that's knows Sergio Garcia since he was a kid, whilst wearing shorts and polo shirt at the arse end of October. I think I was splodging round the rec trying to hit lob shots over the rugby posts when I was learning as a kid.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 28, 2019)

Mel Smooth said:



			It was good.
The lad has a tendency to push his shots to the right, particularly with the driver. Basically, he needs to over emphasize swinging out to in, to get rid of the in to out swing he currently has, which will blight him forever if it isn't nipped in the bud.
Hit some nice 7 irons about 110 yards - which I don't think is bad for a 9 year old kid, then when asked to hit the driver, he striped the first one straight down the driving range with just a touch of draw.
The pro was also teaching him some spanish as well, so I definitely got my moneys worth - which as a tight Yorkshireman was massively appreciated. ;-)

Hope he appreciates how fortunate he is, being taught how to play golf by a bloke that's knows Sergio Garcia since he was a kid, whilst wearing shorts and polo shirt at the arse end of October. I think I was splodging round the rec trying to hit lob shots over the rugby posts when I was learning as a kid. 

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If Carlsberg did lessons....


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## larmen (Oct 31, 2019)

How quickly do you lose it again?

On the range today and mostly duffed all full shots, but had much better results from the stop motion shots. Basically hitting the mat before the ball. Now after driving home I have an idea what was wrong, but that idea might be wrong in itself.
Lesson on Saturday coming up.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 1, 2019)

larmen said:



			How quickly do you lose it again?

On the range today and mostly duffed all full shots, but had much better results from the stop motion shots. Basically hitting the mat before the ball. Now after driving home I have an idea what was wrong, but that idea might be wrong in itself.
Lesson on Saturday coming up.
		
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I do tend to find that I can overdo practice and the drills from lessons to the point where I feel I over emphasise the feeling I'm trying to get. For me, it's finding a good mixture of working on the changes at the range and then getting on the course and simply trusting it and to a large degree putting the score made to the back of my mind and whether it's good or not simply play with the swing


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## Kennysarmy (Nov 1, 2019)

Working for me....I've had 2 lessons (3 weeks apart) and my last 3 stableford points were 38,38 and yesterday 44 - gross 72 - my lowest ever for 18 holes (OK, so winter mats and course slightly easier) but I've got a much better setup with the driver, reduced lateral movement and hitting my irons so much better.....


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## stefanovic (Nov 1, 2019)

Kennysarmy said:



			Working for me....
		
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But not for long. Golf is an endless cycle of fault - fix - fault - fix.


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## Swango1980 (Nov 1, 2019)

I'd recommend them for most beginners, or golfers who are having a nightmare with a certain type of shot / shots. But more caution to players who are actually doing pretty well and just looking for tweaks to their game. Need a good coach, and probably a good understanding of your own game, otherwise a minor change could ruin other shots that you are currently very successful with. Need to be patient as well, as very few of us normal golfers can actually implement a change immediately due to that thing called muscle memory


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## Orikoru (Nov 1, 2019)

I watch a lot of Golf Sidekick on YouTube, he's probably my favourite YouTuber at the minute. He advises only to bother getting lessons if your swing is either so bad you can't get round the course, or if your natural swing causes strain and injury. Other than that he says just play your swing and practise your short game like mad and you'll shoot good scores regardless. His handicap is 4 by the way, if that makes a difference. He often puts up videos of friends of his who have the most awful swings you've ever seen and a huge slice, but they play off 9 or something because they just know how to work with what they have and be sensible. I really think there's a lot of truth in it.

Although that does of course imply that a short game lesson might be worthwhile if you're failing at that.


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## ademac (Nov 1, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I watch a lot of Golf Sidekick on YouTube, he's probably my favourite YouTuber at the minute. He advises only to bother getting lessons if your swing is either so bad you can't get round the course, or if your natural swing causes strain and injury. Other than that he says just play your swing and practise your short game like mad and you'll shoot good scores regardless. His handicap is 4 by the way, if that makes a difference. He often puts up videos of friends of his who have the most awful swings you've ever seen and a huge slice, but they play off 9 or something because they just know how to work with what they have and be sensible. I really think there's a lot of truth in it.

Although that does of course imply that a short game lesson might be worthwhile if you're failing at that.
		
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I think it all depends on how you see things.
I wouldnâ€™t necessarily think a Youtuber who plays off 4 is qualified to be telling people if they should have coaching or not, plenty of +handicap golfers who have coaching.
I also donâ€™t think a 9 handicap is a really good standard of golf wether you have a slice or not etc.

Iâ€™m not saying people who play off 4 or 9 or any other handicap arenâ€™t good at golf, I just think it depends entirely on how you view things and what you want from the game.


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## Orikoru (Nov 1, 2019)

ademac said:



			I think it all depends on how you see things.
I wouldnâ€™t necessarily think a Youtuber who plays off 4 is qualified to be telling people if they should have coaching or not, plenty of +handicap golfers who have coaching.
I also donâ€™t think a 9 handicap is a really good standard of golf wether you have a slice or not etc.

Iâ€™m not saying people who play off 4 or 9 or any other handicap arenâ€™t good at golf, I just think it depends entirely on how you view things and what you want from the game.
		
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Yeah you're not wrong. I think I just personally don't want golf to become a chore. It's something I do for fun at the end of the day, when I see some people's posts about how hard they're having to work just to make infinitesimal changes to their swing and the results are not even directly quantifiable - that just doesn't sound like fun anymore. 

The whole ethos of working with your natural swing and just making gains by having a good short game is way, way more appealing to me. It isn't just Golf Sidekick, there are plenty of other YouTubers I watch advocating it (Robin Matthews-Williams, Just Your Average Golfer), and I'm reading Bob Rotella's 'golf is not a game of perfect' at the minute, and there's a lot of it in there as well I think. 

Of course, none of this means that golf lessons don't work. I suppose the summary is they only work if you have the mindset of wanting to work. If I actually took a lesson for whatever reason, I don't think it would work great for me as I wouldn't have the work ethic to make it work.


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## Dan2501 (Nov 1, 2019)

Personally if I have nagging issues in my long game and my swing - I'd find it more fun to go and get that fault fixed and be able to play without that fault affecting my score than just attributing it to my "natural swing" and trying to get around it by working on short game. A good short game is obviously going to help you score, but only going to get you so far if you're driving it off the planet or shanking it into the trees.


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## stefanovic (Nov 1, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			A good short game is obviously going to help you score,
		
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Improving you short game is great. But only at the expense of your long game. Improve your long game and your short game will suffer.
Nicklaus had a great long game but an awful short game (as reported by a fellow pro) and he was the most successful player ever.




			but only going to get you so far if you're driving it off the planet...
		
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So should the old QI question of how many moons the Earth has needs to include all those golf balls in orbit?


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## RangeMonkey (Nov 2, 2019)

Do tooth braces work?
Yes, but not everyone needs or wants them.


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## Dogma (Nov 2, 2019)

Not working for me at the moment.

Change of coach as I've moved jobs and things just aren't clicking with him after three lessons.

Lovely chap, but the drills he gives me just don't work for me.

I'm massively In to Out and flip my wrists at impact which results in either a big block or a hook.

Starting to wonder if I've gone too far down this path and it's going to take a ridiculous amount of work to get me hitting the ball straighter.


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## larmen (Nov 2, 2019)

larmen said:



			How quickly do you lose it again?
...
Lesson on Saturday coming up.
		
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So, having topped 2 buckets during the week I was there 20ish minutes early. Doing a bit of warm up I realised that I take the club up and back on the takeaway, so I just took it up.
During the lesson I then learned once again that I take it up, and than down and back on the downswing. So I took it back way to early which made me come out to in (or in to out?).
We snug into the studio and did some drills and shots on his proper launch monitor for about 5 to 10 minutes, my already corrected path was still 16 degrees out, but we got that down to 6ish very quickly now that I could see what is wrong. Back onto the range and onto the big stick. 1st shot I concentrate so much on the setup I forgot the whole swing thing we just talked about for 20 minutes. That's basically in a nutshell what happens to my golf outside the lesson. Back concentrating, and I sky a few, and then take a stream of drivers down the virtual fairway. 170 to 180 yards only, but all lovely down the line. Session over and I finish my balls replicating that with the 3 wood, 3 hybrid and even my nemesis clubs, the 5 iron.

Well, the proof will be in the pudding next Tuesday when I hit the range again. Don't think I get a round or even 9 holes in tomorrow.


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## larmen (Nov 30, 2019)

Another lesson today, this time an hour on the launch monitor.
Came way to much in to out again because I moved the swing up and forward instead of just up. I basically didnâ€™t coil and just moved. Now I know, I just need to remember to do it out on the course. At the end we hit driver and I got a couple of them to 180 carry. I wonder how that will work out tomorrow.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 1, 2019)

larmen said:



			Another lesson today, this time an hour on the launch monitor.
Came way to much in to out again because I moved the swing up and forward instead of just up. I basically didnâ€™t coil and just moved. Now I know, I just need to remember to do it out on the course. At the end we hit driver and I got a couple of them to 180 carry. I wonder how that will work out tomorrow.
		
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So good isn't it when you can see data to verify what you're actually doing rather than just relying on feel. Now you know what to do go and work on the drills, go back, see the data again and I am sure you'll be surprised how much path and face angle have changed


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## Dogma (Dec 1, 2019)

Dogma said:



			Not working for me at the moment.

Change of coach as I've moved jobs and things just aren't clicking with him after three lessons.

Lovely chap, but the drills he gives me just don't work for me.

I'm massively In to Out and flip my wrists at impact which results in either a big block or a hook.

Starting to wonder if I've gone too far down this path and it's going to take a ridiculous amount of work to get me hitting the ball straighter.
		
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So I thought I'd quote myself.

In the time since I wrote this, I've found myself a GM Top 25 coach and have had one lesson and have another booked in for another two weeks time.

Absolute night and day between him and my last coach.

It seems that I'm not massively In to Out and don't flip my wrists and have some entirely different issues 

My fault is actually hitting every shot on the heel and having an overly strong grip 

Since the lesson, I've never hit the ball so well and am looking forward to my next lesson!


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## ridonver (Dec 2, 2019)

I took two lessons and my ball striking improved a little.


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