# Stableford and Etiquette



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

Afternoon,

It's been a while, but I've been playing some fairly decent golf by my standards and I feel my game is improving really well, becoming more confident.

Today me and my Dad played in a 4 ball with 2 relatives who play society golf, and religiously adopt the Stableford method.

I told them that I'm going to be holing out and completing my round in stroke play.  There was no danger in slow play as these 2 are zooming down the fairway in their buggies before I've even got my head cover on my driver.

Now I get Stableford, I understand the general premise and why people play it.  If your having a rubbish hole you can pick up your ball and it doesn't ruin your round, I get it.  But for me I don't think it gives an accurate report on how well you played hole on hole.

For example I could score a couple of 10s, and that would be 100% my fault, I mis hit a drive, hit in the water, get stuck in a bunker or 3 putt on the green.  Now under Stableford, those errors in my game that caused the 10 woudn't count, and I wouldn't have those errors to try and fix to improve my game.

They wouldn't have it and it kind of ruined my back 9 as I was flying on the front 9.  I play by percentages, heavily into my statistics, because I believe it gives me an accurate report and at a glance view on how my game is progressing.

Wondered what people thought about that.

Also, there seemed to be very little etiquette during the round, no honour was given to the person who scored better in the previous hole, balls were being hit as soon as that person got to their ball first, regardless of position, and at one point two balls were flying in the air on the green from different directions at the same time.

I came away thinking that I hadn't played a proper round.  They are in a golf society and are always asking me to come along, but I really don't think I want to.  Golf is an individual sport mainly, and I take it really seriously.  Have invested heavily in clubs and I don't want golf to be a social event for me.

Is this the state of golf? (sorry for the rant)


----------



## fundy (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			Afternoon,

It's been a while, but I've been playing some fairly decent golf by my standards and I feel my game is improving really well, becoming more confident.

Today me and my Dad played in a 4 ball with 2 relatives who play society golf, and religiously adopt the Stableford method.

I told them that I'm going to be holing out and completing my round in stroke play.  There was no danger in slow play as these 2 are zooming down the fairway in their buggies before I've even got my head cover on my driver.

Now I get Stableford, I understand the general premise and why people play it.  If your having a rubbish hole you can pick up your ball and it doesn't ruin your round, I get it.  But for me I don't think it gives an accurate report on how well you played hole on hole.

For example I could score a couple of 10s, and that would be 100% my fault, I mis hit a drive, hit in the water, get stuck in a bunker or 3 putt on the green.  Now under Stableford, those errors in my game that caused the 10 woudn't count, and I wouldn't have those errors to try and fix to improve my game.

They wouldn't have it and it kind of ruined my back 9 as I was flying on the front 9.  I play by percentages, heavily into my statistics, because I believe it gives me an accurate report and at a glance view on how my game is progressing.

Wondered what people thought about that.

Also, there seemed to be very little etiquette during the round, no honour was given to the person who scored better in the previous hole, balls were being hit as soon as that person got to their ball first, regardless of position, and at one point two balls were flying in the air on the green from different directions at the same time.

I came away thinking that I hadn't played a proper round.  They are in a golf society and are always asking me to come along, but I really don't think I want to.  Golf is an individual sport mainly, and I take it really seriously.  *Have invested heavily in clubs and I don't want golf to be a social event for me*.

Is this the state of golf? (sorry for the rant)
		
Click to expand...

What do you want it to be then?


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

I want to become a much better golfer, not one who goes around a course gossiping about this and that, and just be about the crack.

Maybe it's just me, maybe I'm just different.

Look I don't mind having a laugh, I'm not a stick in the mud, but I want to take this game more seriously, and I will get more enjoyment out of getting birdies, coming under par, getting close to the pin etc.


----------



## Alex1975 (Jun 23, 2014)

You seem to have mixed in some partners habits and stableford into a melting pot. I also thought it was cute that you mentioned that there was no change of slow play as the group in front scarpered..... You have enough time to put the ball in the hole in any format. People do blob holes in stableford and still hole out for a number of reasons.

All that said, there are going to be days when you want to take the pressure off yourself and have some fun and on those days I suggest you do just enjoy playing the wonderful game.


----------



## dufferman (Jun 23, 2014)

Playing out of turn etc just gets things going. There's nothing worse than a group who keep letting the person with the lowest score go first when the other 2/3 in the group are standing on the tee ready to go. In competition it's different, but for a friendly knock about its not hugely important.

When I'm playing with mates, we don't always stick to furthest from the hole when chipping / putting, nor do we wait for the lowest score from the last hole to tee off first if someone else is ready. The only time we do is if there's something on the line - whether it be a trophy or who gets the beers in!!


----------



## JamesR (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			1 - Now I get Stableford, I understand the general premise and why people play it.  If your having a rubbish hole you can pick up your ball and it doesn't ruin your round, I get it.  But for me I don't think it gives an accurate report on how well you played hole on hole.

2 - For example I could score a couple of 10s, and that would be 100% my fault, I mis hit a drive, hit in the water, get stuck in a bunker or 3 putt on the green.  Now under Stableford, those errors in my game that caused the 10 woudn't count, and I wouldn't have those errors to try and fix to improve my game.

3 - They wouldn't have it and it kind of ruined my back 9 as I was flying on the front 9.  I play by percentages, heavily into my statistics, because I believe it gives me an accurate report and at a glance view on how my game is progressing.

4 - Wondered what people thought about that.


5 - Also, there seemed to be very little etiquette during the round, no honour was given to the person who scored better in the previous hole, balls were being hit as soon as that person got to their ball first, regardless of position, and at one point two balls were flying in the air on the green from different directions at the same time.

6 - I came away thinking that I hadn't played a proper round.  They are in a golf society and are always asking me to come along, but I really don't think I want to.  Golf is an individual sport mainly, and I take it really seriously.  Have invested heavily in clubs and I don't want golf to be a social event for me.

7 - Is this the state of golf? (sorry for the rant)
		
Click to expand...

1 - Yes, it does give a good idea of your round. If you played badly you won't get many points.
2 - The errors are still your fault, as they have nothing to do with anyone else. The errors are still there & you do need to fix them, otherwise you would score more points.
3 - How does them playing stableford affect your back 9?
4 - Stableford is fine, it is how handicap scores are calculated by CONGU. I prefer medal play, but at the end of the day they are both golf & therefore enjoyable.
5 - Their etiquette has sod all to do with the choice of playing stableford, it seems at least they were trying not to be too slow.
6 - Golf is a very social sport, playing with new people is a big part of it. You can also learn a lot from playing with new people. I don't see how % come into the discussion so will leave that alone?
7 - Don't really follow, sorry.

I would say "enjoy your golf" but that seems unlikely, so I won't bother!


----------



## Birchy (Jun 23, 2014)

Sounds like you need to learn to get yourself in the zone a bit better. There is loads of things that happen on a golf course that can throw you offline and if you can learn to ignore that you will become a better golfer with it.

It is hard though. Also I do think if you take it too seriously the scores will suffer. You need to be loose and relaxed to play your best golf imo.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

Gil_Emott said:



			1 - Yes, it does give a good idea of your round. If you played badly you won't get many points.
2 - The errors are still your fault, as they have nothing to do with anyone else. The errors are still there & you do need to fix them, otherwise you would score more points.
3 - How does them playing stableford affect your back 9?
4 - Stableford is fine, it is how handicap scores are calculated by CONGU. I prefer medal play, but at the end of the day they are both golf & therefore enjoyable.
5 - Their etiquette has sod all to do with the choice of playing stableford, it seems at least they were trying not to be too slow.
6 - Golf is a very social sport, playing with new people is a big part of it. You can also learn a lot from playing with new people. I don't see how % come into the discussion so will leave that alone?
7 - Don't really follow, sorry.

I would say "enjoy your golf" but that seems unlikely, so I won't bother!
		
Click to expand...

Probably best if your going to be a bell to not bother replying.  But thanks for the effort.


----------



## patricks148 (Jun 23, 2014)

sounds like the two you were playing with had the right idea, play quickly and enjoy the crack. 

I played in the monthly medal on sat with two mates, we are all mid low handicapers at 4,5 and 6. we didn't worry about who's honour it was or who was fist to go etc. we all played rubbish, but still enjoyed the company and the game.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

Birchy said:



			Sounds like you need to learn to get yourself in the zone a bit better. There is loads of things that happen on a golf course that can throw you offline and if you can learn to ignore that you will become a better golfer with it.

It is hard though. Also I do think if you take it too seriously the scores will suffer. You need to be loose and relaxed to play your best golf imo.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not taking it too seriously, I'm not Mr Straight Laced, but at the moment I'm trying to improve my game, and therefore I can't ignore the holes where I get quadruple bogeys.

I know there are different facets to the game, and I appreciate that.  I just prefer stroke play, but it seems I may well be in the minority.


----------



## JamesR (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			I just prefer stroke play, but it seems I may well be in the minority.
		
Click to expand...

Stableford is strokeplay!


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

patricks148 said:



			sounds like the two you were playing with had the right idea, play quickly and enjoy the crack. 

I played in the monthly medal on sat with two mates, we are all mid low handicapers at 4,5 and 6. we didn't worry about who's honour it was or who was fist to go etc. we all played rubbish, but still enjoyed the company and the game.
		
Click to expand...

It was too rushed.  It's 25 degrees out there, none of us had to be anywhere soon.  I think there's a difference in enjoying the crack and people chatting during setup, and multiple balls flying around the green.  

Maybe that's just me.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

Gil_Emott said:



			Stableford is strokeplay!
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, I know.  I meant I prefer to play where I count all my strokes.


----------



## patricks148 (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			It was too rushed.  It's 25 degrees out there, none of us had to be anywhere soon.  I think there's a difference in enjoying the crack and people chatting during setup, and multiple balls flying around the green.  

Maybe that's just me.
		
Click to expand...

was this a comp out just a bounce game?

if its a bounce game.... i would say chill out


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

patricks148 said:



			was this a comp out just a bounce game?

if its a bounce game.... i would say chill out

Click to expand...

I was chilled.  I was happy for them to play Stableford, I just wanted to count all my strokes.  I didn't think I was causing any trouble.  It was the constant harping on about how I was wrong, and nobody plays the way I play, and I should, no sorry, I needed to know how it works.  I know how it works, it just riled me because they were chirping away when I was trying to play.

Ironically I beat them using the Stableford scoring system anyway.

I'm still new to the game and keen to develop my game.  The people I was playing with are on the cusp of retirement, so its just a laugh for them.  I am still young enough that I can get to a point where I really develop a decent game, and who knows what can happen.  So I take my development seriously, and if I am paying over Â£30 for a round, I'm going to take that round seriously too.  But it was just the manner on how I was badgered about it.


----------



## JamesR (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			Sorry, I know.  I meant I prefer to play where I count all my strokes.
		
Click to expand...

Do you actually feel you gain anything though, by counting every shot, or would you be better to forget about the bad holes, move on and try to improve.

If you were playing a stableford competition off your 28 handicap, you would have 9 holes where you got 2 shots. Say one is a par 4, after the 7th shot none of the others count towards your handicap anyway, and as such in a stableford you can pick up, shake yourself off and head over to the next tee knowing that all you had lost was 2 points, which can be salvaged with a good hole later on.

My advice, don't get too technical, don't get too down on yourself after bad shots/holes, and enjoy it.


----------



## Alex1975 (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			I was chilled.  I was happy for them to play Stableford, I just wanted to count all my strokes.  I didn't think I was causing any trouble.  It was the constant harping on about how I was wrong, and nobody plays the way I play, and I should, no sorry, I needed to know how it works.  I know how it works, it just riled me because they were chirping away when I was trying to play.

Ironically I beat them using the Stableford scoring system anyway.

I'm still new to the game and keen to develop my game.  The people I was playing with are on the cusp of retirement, so its just a laugh for them.  I am still young enough that I can get to a point where I really develop a decent game, and who knows what can happen.  So I take my development seriously, and if I am paying over Â£30 for a round, I'm going to take that round seriously too.  But it was just the manner on how I was badgered about it.
		
Click to expand...


Nick, I think generally everyone understands what you are talking about even if they are not saying so.... Golf is massively important to me, its more important to me than any other hobby I have had, I don't need to tell you why just take it from me. Even with that being the case when I get on the course the number one objective is to enjoy myself. If I go home and have to ask myself questions about my performance later I will but on the day I will enjoy it, try my best but enjoy it.

Take it seriously for sure but not to your own detriment.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

Gil_Emott said:



			Do you actually feel you gain anything though, by counting every shot, or would you be better to forget about the bad holes, move on and try to improve.

If you were playing a stableford competition off your 28 handicap, you would have 9 holes where you got 2 shots. Say one is a par 4, after the 7th shot none of the others count towards your handicap anyway, and as such in a stableford you can pick up, shake yourself off and head over to the next tee knowing that all you had lost was 2 points, which can be salvaged with a good hole later on.

My advice, don't get too technical, don't get too down on yourself after bad shots/holes, and enjoy it.
		
Click to expand...

I do actually feel I do gain though.  We're all different I guess, but personally I feel every shot and can see how I am improving.  When I first started I was hitting 120's and now I'm averaging 100 for the past 3 rounds, so I can definitely say its helping me improve my game.

A scenario is say I am in the bunker and if I don't get it up and down to score I can just walk away, but how is that improving my skills if I am not taking on the shot because it doesn't score a point?  Every round I play is about me putting into practice what I get from lessons and on the range.  I fear that if I just stick to stableford, I may miss out on practicing in real game situations.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			Nick, I think generally everyone understands what you are talking about even if they are not saying so.... Golf is massively important to me, its more important to me than any other hobby I have had, I don't need to tell you why just take it from me. Even with that being the case when I get on the course the number one objective is to enjoy myself. If I go home and have to ask myself questions about my performance later I will but on the day I will enjoy it, try my best but enjoy it.

Take it seriously for sure but not to your own detriment.
		
Click to expand...

But I do it enjoy it.  My 9 iron today that I hit from 120 yards to 3 yards from the pin, I massively enjoyed.  Nobody else did that, nobody there came close.  I really enjoyed that moment, 2 years ago I wouldn't have got anywhere near that.  So I do enjoy it.  I enjoy seeing my score at the end of the 18 and that moment when I shot 99 for the first time, I was on cloud 9.


----------



## fundy (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			I do actually feel I do gain though.  We're all different I guess, but personally I feel every shot and can see how I am improving.  When I first started I was hitting 120's and now I'm averaging 100 for the past 3 rounds, so I can definitely say its helping me improve my game.

A scenario is say I am in the bunker and if I don't get it up and down to score I can just walk away, but how is that improving my skills if I am not taking on the shot because it doesn't score a point?  Every round I play is about me putting into practice what I get from lessons and on the range.  I fear that if I just stick to stableford, I may miss out on practicing in real game situations.
		
Click to expand...

Do you think your playing partners are enjoying it as you chip across the green for 6, back across the other side for 7, on for 8 and then 3 putt for 11? Or are you only worried about your enjoyment?

For me in a bounce game once youre not scoring on a hole pick it up and move on. Play ready golf (rather than it being honour bound) albeit i agree 2 shouldnt play at the same time (maybe just happened once?)

We all have a slightly different take on this game but try and consider what works well for everyone imho


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jun 23, 2014)

My tuppence worth, you are taking it far too seriously and without wanting to sound like I'm having a go at high handicappers, if I was playing a social game like the one you describe, I'd soon get the hump if you insisted on holing out for a 12. You say them playing socially ruined your back nine, I say you playing as you did would probably ruin mine - did you think about how you might be affecting your PPs?

I like to hole out on every hole and generally will do so even in bounce games, but then I normally have at least a putt for a bogey, if I'm in the position that I can't score and I am nowhere near the green, I pick up or will chuck a ball down near where one of my PPs is playing from and continue from there in order to keep up with the pace of play. No amount of stats will benefit from having 3 hacks out of thick rough recorded.

I take my golf seriously and you can do that without religiously holing out on every hole. There is a time and a place for doing what you do, sounds like you either need to find like minded PPs or play on your own. Sorry to be blunt.


----------



## Alex1975 (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			But I do it enjoy it.  My 9 iron today that I hit from 120 yards to 3 yards from the pin, I massively enjoyed.  Nobody else did that, nobody there came close.  I really enjoyed that moment, 2 years ago I wouldn't have got anywhere near that.  So I do enjoy it.  I enjoy seeing my score at the end of the 18 and that moment when I shot 99 for the first time, I was on cloud 9.
		
Click to expand...


Great, cool, don't worry about others then provided your doing what you should, and it sounds like you are. Yep, mark your card as you are and use it in the best way for you. You maybe don't need to tell anyone, just join in with the stableford or matchplay or whatever and mark your card as you like.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

fundy said:



			Do you think your playing partners are enjoying it as you chip across the green for 6, back across the other side for 7, on for 8 and then 3 putt for 11? Or are you only worried about your enjoyment?

For me in a bounce game once youre not scoring on a hole pick it up and move on. Play ready golf (rather than it being honour bound) albeit i agree 2 shouldnt play at the same time (maybe just happened once?)

We all have a slightly different take on this game but try and consider what works well for everyone imho
		
Click to expand...

Well I guess I never had any say in what kind of game we were going to play, but to be honest, they had to wait 1 minute for me to put out, but I never slowed anyone down at all.  But then I was out for a nice game of golf, I wasn't trying to complete the round in record time as they clearly were.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jun 23, 2014)

I agree with Fundy and Hawkeye and think you need to re-assess things a little. You describe your great shot and "no-one else came close" as if you and only you enjoyed the round as you and only you could and did hit such a beauty. I think you're so tied up in YOUR game and what it means to YOU that you've lost sight of an important aspect of this beautiful game and that is it isn't played (generally) on your own but has a very important social aspect too. Your playing partners may have come away saying "well I hope he doesn't join our society...way too intense" or similar.

I take golf VERY seriously but have learnt to also enjoy the beautiful elements of it that don't involve me hitting a beautiful shot or setting a PB or or or...sadly it strikes me your enjoyment is totally one dimensional and the only one suffering for that is you.

What is this life, if full of care...


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			My tuppence worth, you are taking it far too seriously and without wanting to sound like I'm having a go at high handicappers, if I was playing a social game like the one you describe, I'd soon get the hump if you insisted on holing out for a 12. You say them playing socially ruined your back nine, I say you playing as you did would probably ruin mine - did you think about how you might be affecting your PPs?

I like to hole out on every hole and generally will do so even in bounce games, but then I normally have at least a putt for a bogey, if I'm in the position that I can't score and I am nowhere near the green, I pick up or will chuck a ball down near where one of my PPs is playing from and continue from there in order to keep up with the pace of play. No amount of stats will benefit from having 3 hacks out of thick rough recorded.

I take my golf seriously and you can do that without religiously holing out on every hole. There is a time and a place for doing what you do, sounds like you either need to find like minded PPs or play on your own. Sorry to be blunt.
		
Click to expand...

It wasn't a social game, in that it wasn't a society game.  I didn't think I was doing any harm by holing out one this one hole that they waited a whole minute.

My bug bear is I was told that everyone in the UK play's this way and I need to too.  It was a general sweeping statement.

Me and my Dad play and its nice and relaxed, no rush.  We don't hold anyone up and enjoy the game.  I didn't enjoy today because I felt like I was against the clock.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			Great, cool, don't worry about others then provided your doing what you should, and it sounds like you are. Yep, mark your card as you are and use it in the best way for you. You maybe don't need to tell anyone, just join in with the stableford or matchplay or whatever and mark your card as you like.
		
Click to expand...

I was doing.  I was doing no harm to nobody.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

AmandaJR said:



			I agree with Fundy and Hawkeye and think you need to re-assess things a little. You describe your great shot and "no-one else came close" as if you and only you enjoyed the round as you and only you could and did hit such a beauty. I think you're so tied up in YOUR game and what it means to YOU that you've lost side of an important aspect of this beautiful game and that is it isn't played (generally) on your own but has a very important social aspect too. Your playing partners may have come away saying "well I hope he doesn't join our society...way too intense" or similar.

I take golf VERY seriously but have learnt to also enjoy the beautiful elements of it that don't involve me hitting a beautiful shot or setting a PB or or or...sadly it strikes me your enjoyment is totally one dimensional and the only one suffering for that is you.

What is this life, if full of care...
		
Click to expand...

I don't need to re-assess.  The issue isn't that I don't get it, or necessarily agree with the idea of Stableford.  I know its good for certain types of games, and I was happy to score that way today, it was the manner in which I was told that what I was doing was wrong, and that nobody in the UK does it.

I wasn't boasting with the 9 iron shot, I was just illustrating that however seriously people here think I'm taking it, I'm saying that I was enjoying certain aspects of the game, it was when I was getting lectured on the rights and wrongs.


----------



## fundy (Jun 23, 2014)

Why did you post? Youre just arguing with anyone who doesnt agree with you. You clearly are already 100% certain you are right so can only assume that you are looking for people who support your view, despite the majority not doing so

Im out


----------



## JamesR (Jun 23, 2014)

I used to take the game too seriously, I ended up giving up, because I wasn't enjoying it enough.
I then came back to the game, probably don't take it seriously enough, but I enjoy it a lot more and am now a better player than before.

I would say to the OP, if you want to play every shot, take it seriously, try to be the best that you can be, and measure your improvement; then join a club, get a handicap and play competitions. It's the only way to tell just how good you are, when the pressure's on and it actually matters. 
Only when you've had to par the last too stay in the buffer zone, and done it, do you know how well your game stands up.


----------



## Rooter (Jun 23, 2014)

fundy said:



			Im out
		
Click to expand...

I didnt even enter to it! But i Think Amanda wins reply of the day.  very well put, gold star and cheesy chips on me.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			I don't need to re-assess.  The issue isn't that I don't get it, or necessarily agree with the idea of Stableford.  I know its good for certain types of games, and I was happy to score that way today, it was the manner in which I was told that what I was doing was wrong, and that nobody in the UK does it.

I wasn't boasting with the 9 iron shot, I was just illustrating that however seriously people here think I'm taking it, I'm saying that I was enjoying certain aspects of the game, it was when I was getting lectured on the rights and wrongs.
		
Click to expand...

I think this goes beyond Stableford and its rights and wrongs - rather more about your approach to the game in general. Perhaps you'd be better served to try and play on your own...


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

fundy said:



			Why did you post? Youre just arguing with anyone who doesnt agree with you. You clearly are already 100% certain you are right so can only assume that you are looking for people who support your view, despite the majority not doing so

Im out
		
Click to expand...

No, people are missing the point of what I was saying.  I'm not disagreeing 100% on the method, just the manner in which I was badgered into it.  It knocked me off my stride when I wasn't doing any harm.  I was scoring better than everyone in both methods, I was taking ages on the green, I wasn't doing anything wrong.


----------



## fundy (Jun 23, 2014)

Rooter said:



			I didnt even enter to it! But i Think Amanda wins reply of the day.  very well put, gold star and cheesy chips on me.
		
Click to expand...

yep and OP dismissed that out of hand instantly!


----------



## fundy (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			No, people are missing the point of what I was saying.  I'm not disagreeing 100% on the method, just the manner in which I was badgered into it.  It knocked me off my stride when I wasn't doing any harm.  I was scoring better than everyone in both methods, *I was taking ages on the green, I wasn't doing anything wrong*.
		
Click to expand...

Those 2 dont add up


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

AmandaJR said:



			I think this goes beyond Stableford and its rights and wrongs - rather more about your approach to the game in general. Perhaps you'd be better served to try and play on your own...
		
Click to expand...

Yep.  Obviously.  I'm being a complete prick and saying the whole world is wrong.

Again, point missed it seems.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

fundy said:



			Those 2 dont add up
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, meant to say wasn't.


----------



## JamesR (Jun 23, 2014)

Rooter said:



			I didnt even enter to it! But i Think Amanda wins reply of the day.  very well put, gold star and cheesy chips on me.
		
Click to expand...

I think you'll find that there were some better replies, but they didn't get posted, just in case a new GM opportunity comes along!


----------



## AmandaJR (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			Yep.  Obviously.  I'm being a complete prick and saying the whole world is wrong.

Again, point missed it seems.
		
Click to expand...

Yep - missed by a long way...


----------



## Rooter (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			Yep.  Obviously.  I'm being a complete prick and saying the whole world is wrong.

Again, point missed it seems.
		
Click to expand...

pick your toys up son. you made a point, people didnt agree. get over it.

If your golf is like how you follow a thread on a forum then good luck!

Someone above mentioned to join a club and play in medals, that in all honesty sounds the best shout for you. We do understand your angle etc!!!


----------



## Rooter (Jun 23, 2014)

Gil_Emott said:



			I think you'll find that there were some better replies, but they didn't get posted, just in case a new GM opportunity comes along!
		
Click to expand...

LOL you after cheesy chips too?


----------



## fundy (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			Sorry, meant to say wasn't.
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough

People are only trying to help and give their opinion, maybe you havent communicated your point as well as you could have. Be careful not to take this game too seriously or you will suck all the enjoyment out of it (i should know ive been there) and always try to make sure you and those you are playing with get as much enjoyment from a game, we wont always agree on everything but try and take others views into account too


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

AmandaJR said:



			Yep - missed by a long way...
		
Click to expand...

Obviously.


----------



## fundy (Jun 23, 2014)

Rooter said:



			LOL you after cheesy chips too?
		
Click to expand...

mmm, cheesy chips


----------



## Birchy (Jun 23, 2014)

fundy said:



			mmm, cheesy chips 

Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly :lol:


----------



## AmandaJR (Jun 23, 2014)

I'd take a fish finger sandwich instead of the cheesy chips ta....or maybe both


----------



## fundy (Jun 23, 2014)

AmandaJR said:



			I'd take a fish finger sandwich instead of the cheesy chips ta....or maybe both 

Click to expand...

thats just plain greedy Amanda (albeit sounds a cracking idea  )


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

fundy said:



			Fair enough

People are only trying to help and give their opinion, maybe you havent communicated your point as well as you could have. Be careful not to take this game too seriously or you will suck all the enjoyment out of it (i should know ive been there) and always try to make sure you and those you are playing with get as much enjoyment from a game, we wont always agree on everything but try and take others views into account too
		
Click to expand...

This is the problem with forums.

People ignore much of what I say.

I think I made it pretty clear that it was the manner in which I was told.  Which I thought was out of order by the guy today.  

I do take into account majority of the stuff I get replies to on this forum, its helped my game loads.  But when people make statements that I need to reasses my approach to the game, like its ok for another player to badger me on the tee, and that everything I am doing is wrong.

I don't think that's very fair, and maybe I never communicated that point across well (I thought I did though).

Everyone did seem to enjoy it today, I just thought that was wrong to give me a load of **** for not agreeing that Stableford is best for my development.  I wasn't debating, I was accepting, but politely declining to agree.

These guys play a lot of society do's, where it is just a laugh.  Which i would be happy to do, but at the moment I'm enjoying developing my game with the little details, and by doing so, nobody else was suffering, my play wasn't slow at all, and I out scored everyone.

Anyway, I'm tired now, and upset people for some reason.  Sorry.


----------



## JamesR (Jun 23, 2014)

Rooter said:



			LOL you after cheesy chips too?
		
Click to expand...

Ooh yes please :cheers:


----------



## BoadieBroadus (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			It was too rushed.  It's 25 degrees out there, none of us had to be anywhere soon.  I think there's a difference in enjoying the crack and people chatting during setup, and multiple balls flying around the green.  

Maybe that's just me.
		
Click to expand...

no, not just you. sounds like these two always play together, and play in that style, chatting, no honour etc...

i think that if you usually play that way but are playing with someone new then you should at least allow them the honour, at least indicate if you're going to play out of turn etc. abserving basic etiquette is just common courtesy if you're playing with someone you don't normally play with.

if i was playing with someone who just teed off when he felt like it, then shot off on his buggy and played his second shot, i doubt i'd be massively impressed.

but mixing buggies and walkers can tend to lack a bit of a social aspect as there's no banter when walking to balls etc... played in a 4 ball with 3 walking and 1 buggy recently and barely shared a word with the buggy rider...


----------



## bladeplayer (Jun 23, 2014)

I dont know what to make of this thread to be honest , couple of thinks id i may 

(1) you dont want golf to be a social event , you are playing with your Da and 2 relatives in a knock about , of course its going to be a social event , thats waht aknock about with your family/ mates is and should be ..

(2) you dont know about joining the society , that will be competition format so it will be played in a different manner or society just wouldnt work 

(3) Etiquette ? again just 4 family members having a knock around , even in comps we play when ready to keep things going , have you read any of the slow play threads ? waiting to play in turn and someone holing out for a 13 in a non medal comp just causes slow play .. 
(4) If you want to improve your skills and feel you cant or are frowned upon for doing so then go out and practice on your own when the course is quiet and do this .. 

(5) you think they have no consideration for waht you want or for your game , if your putting for a 10 a few times a round are you showing consideration for them ? if 3 of the 4 ball want to play stableford then you play stableford or ask your Da will ye split into 2x 2balls and do your own thing ..

(6) you say
" play by percentages, heavily into my statistics, because I believe it gives me an accurate report and at a glance view on how my game is progressing."
Stats can be so misleading you should be able to guage your game on your ball striking and how you actually hit the ball etc stats can say your 3 putting too much and you work on that , when the actual fault is your pitching and chipping is causing you to 3 putt .

(7) post #8 if somebody does take time to reply who maybe doesnt agree , then this is probably not the best of replys , 
if you think im the same well thats fine , but i am also of the opinion you need to sit back and enjoy more NON competitive golf even if its self competition ,
This bit im sure of ,if you play all your golf this seriously the fun will go out of it , been there done that


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

BoadieBroadus said:



			no, not just you. sounds like these two always play together, and play in that style, chatting, no honour etc...

i think that if you usually play that way but are playing with someone new then you should at least allow them the honour, at least indicate if you're going to play out of turn etc. abserving basic etiquette is just common courtesy if you're playing with someone you don't normally play with.

if i was playing with someone who just teed off when he felt like it, then shot off on his buggy and played his second shot, i doubt i'd be massively impressed.

but mixing buggies and walkers can tend to lack a bit of a social aspect as there's no banter when walking to balls etc... played in a 4 ball with 3 walking and 1 buggy recently and barely shared a word with the buggy rider...
		
Click to expand...

yes best friends.  It was a relaxed atmosphere, it was ok till I got told all about Stableford and how I should be playing it, or know how its scored.  I do know, I just prefer to score my own card how I prefer.  If I was slowing play down then fair enough, but I wasn't at all.

It just put me off my game, maybe I shouldn't have let it get to me, but that's not a golf issue, thats me having personal issues with people telling me what to do.

I actually prefer playing on my own or with my Dad, as I believe that's how I'm going to improve my game to get to the standard i want.


----------



## chrisd (Jun 23, 2014)

It's been said Nick, but maybe missed by you, that all handicapping is done on Stableford format so, if you are holing out everything, with a card in your hand, a 12 on a par 4 when you get one shot will be rounded down to a 7 anyway, so the other 5 shots get wiped off your score. So, in a friendly game where you take it so seriously and can't score, in a Stableford game makes little difference.

Unless you are a pro golfer, even at a really good level (for me, that is single figure handicap) if you arn't out there primarily for enjoyment then it really isn't a hobby in my eyes!


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

bladeplayer said:



			I dont know what to make of this thread to be honest , couple of thinks id i may 

(1) you dont want golf to be a social event , you are playing with your Da and 2 relatives in a knock about , of course its going to be a social event , thats waht aknock about with your family/ mates is and should be ..

(2) you dont know about joining the society , that will be competition format so it will be played in a different manner or society just wouldnt work 

(3) Etiquette ? again just 4 family members having a knock around , even in comps we play when ready to keep things going , have you read any of the slow play threads ? waiting to play in turn and someone holing out for a 13 in a non medal comp just causes slow play .. 
(4) If you want to improve your skills and feel you cant or are frowned upon for doing so then go out and practice on your own when the course is quiet and do this .. 

(5) you think they have no consideration for waht you want or for your game , if your putting for a 10 a few times a round are you showing consideration for them ? if 3 of the 4 ball want to play stableford then you play stableford or ask your Da will ye split into 2x 2balls and do your own thing ..

(6) you say
" play by percentages, heavily into my statistics, because I believe it gives me an accurate report and at a glance view on how my game is progressing."
Stats can be so misleading you should be able to guage your game on your ball striking and how you actually hit the ball etc stats can say your 3 putting too much and you work on that , when the actual fault is your pitching and chipping is causing you to 3 putt .

(7) post #8 if somebody does take time to reply who maybe doesnt agree , then this is probably not the best of replys , 
if you think im the same well thats fine , but i am also of the opinion you need to sit back and enjoy more NON competitive golf even if its self competition ,
This bit im sure of ,if you play all your golf this seriously the fun will go out of it , been there done that
		
Click to expand...

(1) That wasn't the issue.  I wasnt playing the last round at Augusta, it was how I was badgered mid round.
(2) I'm not fussed about society golf really.
(3) I didn't cause any slow play at all, again that wasn't the issue
(4) Not really sure they were frowning so much on me, more that, this is how everyone in the UK plays and you should too, that irked me.
(5) Well again I wasn't slow, and pretty much matched them stroke for stroke.
(6) Well my stats actually give me a pretty accurate representation of how I'm playing, well I think so, and when I go out the next round I generally see an improvement because I've worked on an area that I need to, such as improving GIR (approach play), putting and driving accuracy.  I do all this quietely to myself, I don't slow anyone down.  I enjoy this aspect of the game, the details etc.  Seeing a 20% increase in driving accuracy is great for me, but that is something else I was shot down about, but another thread, or maybe I'll just tell the cat. 
(7) No comment. 

I'm not playing it seriously.  I concentrate on my shot, like everyone should surely?  I weigh up the conditions, the lie, I choose my club, setup and hit the ball.  I enjoy it, I look forward to playing.  I've never once slowed anyone down because I'm choosing not to score Stableford.  Like I said, I outscored them today, so I can't have been slow.

The issue is the manner in which i was badgered.


----------



## Alex1975 (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			I actually prefer playing on my own or with my Dad, as I believe that's how I'm going to improve my game to get to the standard i want.
		
Click to expand...

This might make you a big fish in a very small pond, and dont get me wrong I understand. It sounds like you play for personal reasons but if your playing with others they might also be playing for personal reasons and it might be that your personal reasons are different to theirs.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

chrisd said:



			It's been said Nick, but maybe missed by you, that all handicapping is done on Stableford format so, if you are holing out everything, with a card in your hand, a 12 on a par 4 when you get one shot will be rounded down to a 7 anyway, so the other 5 shots get wiped off your score. So, in a friendly game where you take it so seriously and can't score, in a Stableford game makes little difference.

Unless you are a pro golfer, even at a really good level (for me, that is single figure handicap) if you arn't out there primarily for enjoyment then it really isn't a hobby in my eyes!
		
Click to expand...

Its a good point that.  I'm only on 28, which is not officially sanctioned by a club or society.  But hey, I'll be happy to give it all a whirl, happy to play all aspects of golf, its what I want to do and I enjoy it.  Just don't like people making sweeping statements about my game and how I should play it.


----------



## BoadieBroadus (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			These guys play a lot of society do's, where it is just a laugh.  Which i would be happy to do, but at the moment I'm enjoying developing my game with the little details, and by doing so, nobody else was suffering, my play wasn't slow at all, and I out scored everyone.

Anyway, I'm tired now, and upset people for some reason.  Sorry.
		
Click to expand...

I'm on your side on this - though I don't think it's really anything to do with stableford scoring, more the etiquette of the two people you were playing with. I read your post and could clearly envisage a round where these two were rushing you round only wanting to play their way.

only if it was a saturday morning competition with groups right on our behind would i suggest that someone shouldn't hole out if they wanted to.

i agree that sometimes to speed up you needn't observe who has the honour in a knock about round, but I would always expect to be asked if it was ok that someone tee off before me. i would always say yes, but i'd expect to be asked as a basic courtesy. same way i would always ask. i'm usually ready to hit my shot while the preceding player's shot is in the air, but i'd wait until it had landed before i did.

isn't it courtesy to keep an eye on where playing partners' shots are headed? easier to do if it's just one in the air at a time?

i think the OP should join and play comps, clearly he wants to play competitive golf against his handicap. sooner or later you'll get to a standard where stableford and medal play are largely the same, other than picking up instead of tapping a short one in for a blob.

i'm not sure i like the scenario you painted of playing with these two, i'd be frustrated playing with them too...


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			This might make you a big fish in a very small pond, and dont get me wrong I understand. It sounds like you play for personal reasons but if your playing with others they might also be playing for personal reasons and it might be that your personal reasons are different to theirs.
		
Click to expand...

Well they are at an age where they aren't going to improve that much.  I'm 38 and been playing properly now for 2 years (used to play off and on when I was younger), and I'm playing some really confident golf for the length of time I've played the game.  I really enjoy it, to the point of obsession, but its not making me unhappy, or too serious about life.  Trust me, I'm about to get divorced and the last thing I've been doing since my marriage broke down was take life too seriously.

I just want to get better, and this is my harmless method at doing it.  So far it's working and nobody died waiting for me to hole out.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

BoadieBroadus said:



			I'm on your side on this - though I don't think it's really anything to do with stableford scoring, more the etiquette of the two people you were playing with. I read your post and could clearly envisage a round where these two were rushing you round only wanting to play their way.

only if it was a saturday morning competition with groups right on our behind would i suggest that someone shouldn't hole out if they wanted to.

i agree that sometimes to speed up you needn't observe who has the honour in a knock about round, but I would always expect to be asked if it was ok that someone tee off before me. i would always say yes, but i'd expect to be asked as a basic courtesy. same way i would always ask. i'm usually ready to hit my shot while the preceding player's shot is in the air, but i'd wait until it had landed before i did.

isn't it courtesy to keep an eye on where playing partners' shots are headed? easier to do if it's just one in the air at a time?

i think the OP should join and play comps, clearly he wants to play competitive golf against his handicap. sooner or later you'll get to a standard where stableford and medal play are largely the same, other than picking up instead of tapping a short one in for a blob.

i'm not sure i like the scenario you painted of playing with these two, i'd be frustrated playing with them too...
		
Click to expand...

Great reply and definitely on my wavelength.  Maybe its because I'm still new at the game, and wanting to get better.  But you know what else, I watch a lot of golf on telly and I see people scoring 68, or 74 etc....   I try and measure myself against that, but obviously with a 28 handicap.  So when I finished with a 1+ the other week I was chuffed to bit,  I guess I can't quantify a 33 in Stableford because well, when do you ever see it in professional golf?  

But like I said, happy to try all aspects of the game, just without the general sweeping statements.


----------



## chrisd (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			Well they are at an age where they aren't going to improve that much.
		
Click to expand...


How old were they?


----------



## Rooter (Jun 23, 2014)

chrisd said:



			How old were they?
		
Click to expand...

50+ Ergo past it.


----------



## chrisd (Jun 23, 2014)

Rooter said:



			50+ Ergo past it. 

Click to expand...

Git!!!


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Jun 23, 2014)

I think you would be surprised, sometimes, at what constitutes "slow play". It sounds like if there were 4 of you on the course, all expecting to hole out for a 10, that many would consider you slow.

For what it's worth, I also really want to improve, but if I've taken 6 shots already on a hole, and just duffed the next, I'm happy to either drop one next to a PP, join them for a putt, or more often than not, just tend the flag and wait till the next hole to gain my revenge on the course.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

chrisd said:



			How old were they?
		
Click to expand...

Ha ha, not wanting to offend any senior citizens.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			I think you would be surprised, sometimes, at what constitutes "slow play". It sounds like if there were 4 of you on the course, all expecting to hole out for a 10, that many would consider you slow.

For what it's worth, I also really want to improve, but if I've taken 6 shots already on a hole, and just duffed the next, I'm happy to either drop one next to a PP, join them for a putt, or more often than not, just tend the flag and wait till the next hole to gain my revenge on the course.
		
Click to expand...

I never holed out for 10.  I scored well.

Fair play.


----------



## BoadieBroadus (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			I guess I can't quantify a 33 in Stableford because well, when do you ever see it in professional golf?
		
Click to expand...

you will get used to it and learn to quantify it. once you start competing specifically against your handicap then it will become much easier to love.

i think its fine to learn how to play a course just with your dad, and aim to break 100 regularly, but once you can do that, you'll be well served joining a club and playing as many comps as you can, the people you're playing with will be much more mindful of playing with a scorecard, and you'll learn much more about your game.

i don't see why so many have their knickers in a twist about what you posted, i don't think there's much you've said that's wrong or could be considered offensive.

as a beginner i think the worst possible type of attitude you could be subjected to from fellow players was pretty much encapsulated by everything these two did... obviously i wasn't there but my check list would include:

1. Telling you the format they think you should be playing
2. Nicking the honour without asking
3. Hitting when other balls are in the air
4. Complaining when you want to hole out
5. Not really taking the game seriously other than a chat with their old pals

If i had 18 holes of that when i was trying to learn the game i would have asked myself what the point was in these two guys being with us.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

BoadieBroadus said:



			you will get used to it and learn to quantify it. once you start competing specifically against your handicap then it will become much easier to love.

i think its fine to learn how to play a course just with your dad, and aim to break 100 regularly, but once you can do that, you'll be well served joining a club and playing as many comps as you can, the people you're playing with will be much more mindful of playing with a scorecard, and you'll learn much more about your game.

i don't see why so many have their knickers in a twist about what you posted, i don't think there's much you've said that's wrong or could be considered offensive.

as a beginner i think the worst possible type of attitude you could be subjected to from fellow players was pretty much encapsulated by everything these two did... obviously i wasn't there but my check list would include:

1. Telling you the format they think you should be playing
2. Nicking the honour without asking
3. Hitting when other balls are in the air
4. Complaining when you want to hole out
5. Not really taking the game seriously other than a chat with their old pals

If i had 18 holes of that when i was trying to learn the game i would have asked myself what the point was in these two guys being with us.
		
Click to expand...

Cheers pal, making me feel a little bit more welcomed here.  

I don't know why they were getting all in a twist either.  I thought I was being clear enough, but as forums go this isn't too bad.  I used to be a member of a football forum and spent so long trying to explain a point, and then someone would come along who had not read the thread and it was back to square one. 

I do take it more seriously then some, but that's only because I want to improve my game.  I'd hate to be at the point when I was just playing only for a laugh.  I actually have a wicked sense of humour, if people get me, but behind a keyboard it's very difficult to convey that.

But I'm ok, I'm still glowing from my 9 iron 3 yards from the pin.


----------



## chrisd (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			Ha ha, not wanting to offend any senior citizens. 

Click to expand...

Wise move Nick !

But you have to understand that, young or old, golfers all have different reasons for playing the game, fun, fitness, to improve, to mix socially etc etc. 

I would say that as the resident "old git" I can walk round and banter for. 18 holes, I can play seriously but also smell the flowers, but Nick, please don't assume that all old players ( I'm 61) are any less desirous of improving. I am desperately keen to achieve a single figure handicap and am working hard to do so. I had a horrendous golfing weekend in really tough conditions, but can still laugh it off and put in extra work to make sure that the next serious golf is improved, but, on Friday last week I played a Stableford in France with a bunch of guys and it was a hoot from start to finish - it's not my work, it has to be fun too!


----------



## DCB (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			I want to become a much better golfer, not one who goes around a course gossiping about this and that, and just be about the crack.

Maybe it's just me, maybe I'm just different.

Look I don't mind having a laugh, I'm not a stick in the mud, but I want to take this game more seriously, and I will get more enjoyment out of getting birdies, coming under par, getting close to the pin etc.
		
Click to expand...

Golf is a social game, you play it with like minded people and generally you make an effort to get on with them, especially if you're going to be playing regularly with them.

It's just a game, relax a bit, take in the fresh air, listen to the birds, you'll enjoy the game so much more than if you're focussed on trying to put together a great score every time you tee off. Golf isn't a game that let's you do that, it has a habit of bringing you back down to earth very quickly.

By all means play stroke play, but remember there are other forms, in a group like you were in today, a 4BBB match would have added a bit of spice, and kept everyone interested.

As for etiquette, it was only a wee blast with friends and family, I'd say, be a little more realistic in your expectations


----------



## Whereditgo (Jun 23, 2014)

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, I got a bit bored with the tread tbh......

But, you've been playing over 2 years? Your handicap is still a tenuous 28?.........

No - I would say you are definitely NOT going about it the right way and what you are doing is clearly not helping you.


----------



## Foxholer (Jun 23, 2014)

I think you are taking it all too seriously.

By all means, play seriously when you are able, but there are also times when it's worthwhile relaxing and seeing what happens too.

Not great that the guys badgered you into playing their way. No, not everyone in UK plays that way, but in 'bounce' games it often is. I'm not keen on buggies at the best of times - part of the game is about the exercise!

Stableford should be the way high handicappers play almost all the time imo. The game can be soul-destroying otherwise - especially at this time of the year! As long as you get to putt out often enough. You can still see improvement and it is the way the Handicap system works too!


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

chrisd said:



			Wise move Nick !

But you have to understand that, young or old, golfers all have different reasons for playing the game, fun, fitness, to improve, to mix socially etc etc. 

I would say that as the resident "old git" I can walk round and banter for. 18 holes, I can play seriously but also smell the flowers, but Nick, please don't assume that all old players ( I'm 61) are any less desirous of improving. I am desperately keen to achieve a single figure handicap and am working hard to do so. I had a horrendous golfing weekend in really tough conditions, but can still laugh it off and put in extra work to make sure that the next serious golf is improved, but, on Friday last week I played a Stableford in France with a bunch of guys and it was a hoot from start to finish - it's not my work, it has to be fun too!
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, that was tongue in cheek about senior citizens. 

I wasn't against having banter, as I've said it was the manner in which I put off my game.



DCB said:



			Golf is a social game, you play it with like minded people and generally you make an effort to get on with them, especially if you're going to be playing regularly with them.

It's just a game, relax a bit, take in the fresh air, listen to the birds, you'll enjoy the game so much more than if you're focussed on trying to put together a great score every time you tee off. Golf isn't a game that let's you do that, it has a habit of bringing you back down to earth very quickly.

By all means play stroke play, but remember there are other forms, in a group like you were in today, a 4BBB match would have added a bit of spice, and kept everyone interested.

As for etiquette, it was only a wee blast with friends and family, I'd say, be a little more realistic in your expectations 

Click to expand...

Wasn't the point I was making or have made since.  It was the manner in which I was badgered.



Whereditgo said:



			Apologies if this has already been mentioned, I got a bit bored with the tread tbh......

But, you've been playing over 2 years? Your handicap is still a tenuous 28?.........

No - I would say you are definitely NOT going about it the right way and what you are doing is clearly not helping you. 

Click to expand...

Well I say 2 years, i started again 2 years ago, but only managed 3 rounds as I was soon off to Canada for a few months, and no golf was played due to the freezing conditions and shed loads of snow. 

Played much more this year, and have had lessons too, and I am definitely improving.  I went from an average of 115 to 102, I'd say that's not too bad.



Foxholer said:



			I think you are taking it all too seriously.

By all means, play seriously when you are able, but there are also times when it's worthwhile relaxing and seeing what happens too.

*Not great that the guys badgered you into playing their way*. No, not everyone in UK plays that way, but in 'bounce' games it often is. I'm not keen on buggies at the best of times - part of the game is about the exercise!

Stableford should be the way high handicappers play almost all the time imo. The game can be soul-destroying otherwise - especially at this time of the year! As long as you get to putt out often enough. You can still see improvement and it is the way the Handicap system works too!
		
Click to expand...

That was the point I have been trying to make.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jun 23, 2014)

Leaving aside the merits or not of Stableford scoring...often when the topic of taking the game too seriously crops up The Letter is metioned. Always worth a read:

Take a trip into the future and imagine that you are much older and near the end of your life. By some miracle you have opportunity to write a letter to your current, younger self. The letter would be about golf and the way you've played the game all your life. Based on my experiences with golfers, this is what I think the letter might say:

Dear Younger Me, 

I canâ€™t play golf anymore. I tried to swing the club the other day, but my body wouldnâ€™t cooperate. The best I can do now is sometimes take walks on the course, but my eyes arenâ€™t as good as they used to be so I donâ€™t see much. I have a lot of time to sit and think now, and I often think about the game. 

It was my favorite game. I played most of my adult life. Thousands of rounds, thousands of hours practicing. As I look back, I guess I had a pretty good time at it. But now that I canâ€™t do it anymore, I wish I had done it differently.

Itâ€™s funny, but with all the time I spent playing golf, I never thought I was a real golfer. I never felt good enough to really belong out there. It doesnâ€™t make much sense, since I scored better than average and a lot of people envied my game, but I always felt that if I was just a little better or a little more consistent, then Iâ€™d feel really good. Iâ€™d be satisfied with my game. But I never was. It was always "One of these days Iâ€™ll get it" or "One day Iâ€™ll get there" and now here I am. I canâ€™t play anymore, and I never got there. 

I met a whole lot of different people out on the course. That was one of the best things about the game. But aside from my regular partners and a few others, I donâ€™t feel like I got to know many of those people very well. I know they didnâ€™t really get to know me. At times they probably didn't want to. I was pretty occupied with my own game most of the time and didnâ€™t have much time for anyone else, especially if I wasn't playing well.

So why am I writing you this letter anyway, just to complain? Not really. Like I said, my golfing experience wasnâ€™t that bad. But it could have been so much better, and I see that so clearly now. I want to tell you, so you can learn from it. I donâ€™t want you getting to my age and feeling the same regrets Iâ€™m feeling now.

I wish, I wish. Sad words, I suppose, but necessary. I wish I could have played the game with more joy, more freedom. I was always so concerned with "doing it right" that I never seemed to be able to enjoy just doing it at all. I was so hard on myself, never satisfied, always expecting more. Who was I trying to please? Certainly not myself, because I never did. If there were people whose opinions were important enough to justify all that self-criticism, I never met them.

I wish I could have been a better playing partner. I wasnâ€™t a bad person to be with, really, but I wish I had been friendlier and gotten to know people better. I wish I could have laughed and joked more and given people more encouragement. I probably would have gotten more from them, and I would have loved that. There were a few bad apples over the years, but most of the people I played with were friendly, polite, and sincere. They really just wanted to make friends and have a good time. I wish I could have made more friends and had a better time. 

Iâ€™m inside a lot now and I miss the beauty of the outdoors. For years when I was golfing I walked through some of the most beautiful places on earth, and yet I donâ€™t feel I really saw them. Beautiful landscapes, trees, flowers, animals, the sky, and the ocean â€“ how could I have missed so much? What was I thinking of that was so important â€“ my grip, my back swing, my stance? Sure, I needed to think about those sometimes, but so often as to be oblivious to so much beauty? And all the green â€“ the wonderful, deep, lush color of green! My eyes are starting to fail. I wish I had used them better so I would have more vivid memories now.

So what is it that Iâ€™m trying to say? I played the type of game that I thought I should play, to please the type of people that I thought I should please. But it didn't work. My game was mine to play, but I gave it away. Itâ€™s a wonderful game. Please, donâ€™t lose yours. Play a game that you want to play. Play a game that gives you joy and satisfaction and makes you a better person to your family and friends. Play with enthusiasm, play with freedom. Appreciate the beauty of nature and the people around you. Realize how lucky you are to be able to do it. All too soon your time will be up, and you wonâ€™t be able to play anymore. Play a game that enriches your life.

That's all I have to say. I don't really know just how this letter will get to you, but I hope it reaches you in time. Take care...

Best wishes... don't waste a minute of golf... someday it will be gone! 

Love,
Older Me

Excerpt from "Extraordinary Golf" by Fred Shoemaker


----------



## chrisd (Jun 23, 2014)

AmandaJR said:



			Leaving aside the merits or not of Stableford scoring...often when the topic of taking the game too seriously crops up The Letter is metioned. Always worth a read:

Take a trip into the future and imagine that you are much older and near the end of your life. By some miracle you have opportunity to write a letter to your current, younger self. The letter would be about golf and the way you've played the game all your life. Based on my experiences with golfers, this is what I think the letter might say:

Dear Younger Me, 

I canâ€™t play golf anymore. I tried to swing the club the other day, but my body wouldnâ€™t cooperate. The best I can do now is sometimes take walks on the course, but my eyes arenâ€™t as good as they used to be so I donâ€™t see much. I have a lot of time to sit and think now, and I often think about the game. 

It was my favorite game. I played most of my adult life. Thousands of rounds, thousands of hours practicing. As I look back, I guess I had a pretty good time at it. But now that I canâ€™t do it anymore, I wish I had done it differently.

Itâ€™s funny, but with all the time I spent playing golf, I never thought I was a real golfer. I never felt good enough to really belong out there. It doesnâ€™t make much sense, since I scored better than average and a lot of people envied my game, but I always felt that if I was just a little better or a little more consistent, then Iâ€™d feel really good. Iâ€™d be satisfied with my game. But I never was. It was always "One of these days Iâ€™ll get it" or "One day Iâ€™ll get there" and now here I am. I canâ€™t play anymore, and I never got there. 

I met a whole lot of different people out on the course. That was one of the best things about the game. But aside from my regular partners and a few others, I donâ€™t feel like I got to know many of those people very well. I know they didnâ€™t really get to know me. At times they probably didn't want to. I was pretty occupied with my own game most of the time and didnâ€™t have much time for anyone else, especially if I wasn't playing well.

So why am I writing you this letter anyway, just to complain? Not really. Like I said, my golfing experience wasnâ€™t that bad. But it could have been so much better, and I see that so clearly now. I want to tell you, so you can learn from it. I donâ€™t want you getting to my age and feeling the same regrets Iâ€™m feeling now.

I wish, I wish. Sad words, I suppose, but necessary. I wish I could have played the game with more joy, more freedom. I was always so concerned with "doing it right" that I never seemed to be able to enjoy just doing it at all. I was so hard on myself, never satisfied, always expecting more. Who was I trying to please? Certainly not myself, because I never did. If there were people whose opinions were important enough to justify all that self-criticism, I never met them.

I wish I could have been a better playing partner. I wasnâ€™t a bad person to be with, really, but I wish I had been friendlier and gotten to know people better. I wish I could have laughed and joked more and given people more encouragement. I probably would have gotten more from them, and I would have loved that. There were a few bad apples over the years, but most of the people I played with were friendly, polite, and sincere. They really just wanted to make friends and have a good time. I wish I could have made more friends and had a better time. 

Iâ€™m inside a lot now and I miss the beauty of the outdoors. For years when I was golfing I walked through some of the most beautiful places on earth, and yet I donâ€™t feel I really saw them. Beautiful landscapes, trees, flowers, animals, the sky, and the ocean â€“ how could I have missed so much? What was I thinking of that was so important â€“ my grip, my back swing, my stance? Sure, I needed to think about those sometimes, but so often as to be oblivious to so much beauty? And all the green â€“ the wonderful, deep, lush color of green! My eyes are starting to fail. I wish I had used them better so I would have more vivid memories now.

So what is it that Iâ€™m trying to say? I played the type of game that I thought I should play, to please the type of people that I thought I should please. But it didn't work. My game was mine to play, but I gave it away. Itâ€™s a wonderful game. Please, donâ€™t lose yours. Play a game that you want to play. Play a game that gives you joy and satisfaction and makes you a better person to your family and friends. Play with enthusiasm, play with freedom. Appreciate the beauty of nature and the people around you. Realize how lucky you are to be able to do it. All too soon your time will be up, and you wonâ€™t be able to play anymore. Play a game that enriches your life.

That's all I have to say. I don't really know just how this letter will get to you, but I hope it reaches you in time. Take care...

Best wishes... don't waste a minute of golf... someday it will be gone! 

Love,
Older Me

Excerpt from "Extraordinary Golf" by Fred Shoemaker
		
Click to expand...

I've not seen that before but how accurate it would be! 

It's not going to be my epitaph, I talk too much, enjoy it too much but hey, if somebody doesn't like playing with me because of that - they don't have to!


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

AmandaJR said:



			Leaving aside the merits or not of Stableford scoring...often when the topic of taking the game too seriously crops up The Letter is metioned. Always worth a read:

Take a trip into the future and imagine that you are much older and near the end of your life. By some miracle you have opportunity to write a letter to your current, younger self. The letter would be about golf and the way you've played the game all your life. Based on my experiences with golfers, this is what I think the letter might say:

Dear Younger Me, 

I canâ€™t play golf anymore. I tried to swing the club the other day, but my body wouldnâ€™t cooperate. The best I can do now is sometimes take walks on the course, but my eyes arenâ€™t as good as they used to be so I donâ€™t see much. I have a lot of time to sit and think now, and I often think about the game. 

It was my favorite game. I played most of my adult life. Thousands of rounds, thousands of hours practicing. As I look back, I guess I had a pretty good time at it. But now that I canâ€™t do it anymore, I wish I had done it differently.

Itâ€™s funny, but with all the time I spent playing golf, I never thought I was a real golfer. I never felt good enough to really belong out there. It doesnâ€™t make much sense, since I scored better than average and a lot of people envied my game, but I always felt that if I was just a little better or a little more consistent, then Iâ€™d feel really good. Iâ€™d be satisfied with my game. But I never was. It was always "One of these days Iâ€™ll get it" or "One day Iâ€™ll get there" and now here I am. I canâ€™t play anymore, and I never got there. 

I met a whole lot of different people out on the course. That was one of the best things about the game. But aside from my regular partners and a few others, I donâ€™t feel like I got to know many of those people very well. I know they didnâ€™t really get to know me. At times they probably didn't want to. I was pretty occupied with my own game most of the time and didnâ€™t have much time for anyone else, especially if I wasn't playing well.

So why am I writing you this letter anyway, just to complain? Not really. Like I said, my golfing experience wasnâ€™t that bad. But it could have been so much better, and I see that so clearly now. I want to tell you, so you can learn from it. I donâ€™t want you getting to my age and feeling the same regrets Iâ€™m feeling now.

I wish, I wish. Sad words, I suppose, but necessary. I wish I could have played the game with more joy, more freedom. I was always so concerned with "doing it right" that I never seemed to be able to enjoy just doing it at all. I was so hard on myself, never satisfied, always expecting more. Who was I trying to please? Certainly not myself, because I never did. If there were people whose opinions were important enough to justify all that self-criticism, I never met them.

I wish I could have been a better playing partner. I wasnâ€™t a bad person to be with, really, but I wish I had been friendlier and gotten to know people better. I wish I could have laughed and joked more and given people more encouragement. I probably would have gotten more from them, and I would have loved that. There were a few bad apples over the years, but most of the people I played with were friendly, polite, and sincere. They really just wanted to make friends and have a good time. I wish I could have made more friends and had a better time. 

Iâ€™m inside a lot now and I miss the beauty of the outdoors. For years when I was golfing I walked through some of the most beautiful places on earth, and yet I donâ€™t feel I really saw them. Beautiful landscapes, trees, flowers, animals, the sky, and the ocean â€“ how could I have missed so much? What was I thinking of that was so important â€“ my grip, my back swing, my stance? Sure, I needed to think about those sometimes, but so often as to be oblivious to so much beauty? And all the green â€“ the wonderful, deep, lush color of green! My eyes are starting to fail. I wish I had used them better so I would have more vivid memories now.

So what is it that Iâ€™m trying to say? I played the type of game that I thought I should play, to please the type of people that I thought I should please. But it didn't work. My game was mine to play, but I gave it away. Itâ€™s a wonderful game. Please, donâ€™t lose yours. Play a game that you want to play. Play a game that gives you joy and satisfaction and makes you a better person to your family and friends. Play with enthusiasm, play with freedom. Appreciate the beauty of nature and the people around you. Realize how lucky you are to be able to do it. All too soon your time will be up, and you wonâ€™t be able to play anymore. Play a game that enriches your life.

That's all I have to say. I don't really know just how this letter will get to you, but I hope it reaches you in time. Take care...

Best wishes... don't waste a minute of golf... someday it will be gone! 

Love,
Older Me

Excerpt from "Extraordinary Golf" by Fred Shoemaker
		
Click to expand...

Ha ha, I love this.  

I do enjoy it, I do have fun, I am not too serious, I just didn't appreciate being badgered about how I played my golf.  It wasn't justified, I wasn't slow, I scored as well if not better than everyone else.  I holed out once when they said I could pick it up, it took approximately 60 seconds, but that time was definitely made up when 2 balls were chipped onto the green at the same time. 

I do have a letter I want to send to myself for the period when I was unhappy in a marriage, and that was to stop and enjoy life more as you don't know when it will end.  Since my split I have been skiing in the rockies, experienced lots of Canada, travelled to New York on my own and had a blast, have met some wonderful people who I consider really close friends, and re-discovered golf and I really really enjoy it.

So please it may have come across as I was being a right Victor Meldrew, that really wasn't the case.  Just don't like people telling me how to live my life, I appreciate suggestions, and majority of my time on this forum has been people suggesting ways I can improve my golf game and I am eternally grateful for that.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			Ha ha, I love this.  

I do enjoy it, I do have fun, I am not too serious, I just didn't appreciate being badgered about how I played my golf.  It wasn't justified, I wasn't slow, I scored as well if not better than everyone else.  I holed out once when they said I could pick it up, it took approximately 60 seconds, but that time was definitely made up when 2 balls were chipped onto the green at the same time. 

I do have a letter I want to send to myself for the period when I was unhappy in a marriage, and that was to stop and enjoy life more as you don't know when it will end.  Since my split I have been skiing in the rockies, experienced lots of Canada, travelled to New York on my own and had a blast, have met some wonderful people who I consider really close friends, and re-discovered golf and I really really enjoy it.

So please it may have come across as I was being a right Victor Meldrew, that really wasn't the case.  Just don't like people telling me how to live my life, I appreciate suggestions, and majority of my time on this forum has been people suggesting ways I can improve my golf game and I am eternally grateful for that.
		
Click to expand...

Sounds as if the written word didn't really convey your message and that's not uncommon. It was good for me to re-read The Letter as I head towards the Club Champs on Saturday :thup:

EYG - ha ha - the chance to use that at last


----------



## chrisd (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			Ha ha, I love this.  

I do enjoy it, I do have fun, I am not too serious, I just didn't appreciate being badgered about how I played my golf.  It wasn't justified, I wasn't slow, I scored as well if not better than everyone else.  I holed out once when they said I could pick it up, it took approximately 60 seconds, but that time was definitely made up when 2 balls were chipped onto the green at the same time. 

I do have a letter I want to send to myself for the period when I was unhappy in a marriage, and that was to stop and enjoy life more as you don't know when it will end.  Since my split I have been skiing in the rockies, experienced lots of Canada, travelled to New York on my own and had a blast, have met some wonderful people who I consider really close friends, and re-discovered golf and I really really enjoy it.

So please it may have come across as I was being a right Victor Meldrew, that really wasn't the case.  Just don't like people telling me how to live my life, I appreciate suggestions, and majority of my time on this forum has been people suggesting ways I can improve my golf game and I am eternally grateful for that.
		
Click to expand...

I think the point that most posters picked up on was your grumbles about your fellow players and the fact that you didn't want to play the way they did and that your golf game appeared to be so more serious, and result based, that you had to do it your way irrespective of the way they normally play. You're free to do what you want but you can't impose that on your partners anymore than you like it done to you,basically, go out with players who share your ideals.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

AmandaJR said:



			Sounds as if the written word didn't really convey your message and that's not uncommon. It was good for me to re-read The Letter as I head towards the Club Champs on Saturday :thup:

EYG - ha ha - the chance to use that at last 

Click to expand...

I know all to well.  I work in the online industry and I know that things do get misread, and I'm not innocent on that either.

I hope people haven't thought of me as someone they wouldn't like to know in real life.  I'm hoping to maybe setup a few games with anyone who is local to me (Chester) at some point.  As long as they don't play Stableford.  kidding.


----------



## patricks148 (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			I never holed out for 10.  I scored well.

Fair play.
		
Click to expand...

you can't have scored that well if you shot 99


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

chrisd said:



			I think the point that most posters picked up on was your grumbles about your fellow players and the fact that you didn't want to play the way they did and that your golf game appeared to be so more serious, and result based, that you had to do it your way irrespective of the way they normally play. You're free to do what you want but you can't impose that on your partners anymore than you like it done to you,basically, go out with players who share your ideals.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah maybe that was how it may have come across, but I did try and hammer the point home, it was actually them imposing on me.

I don't blame you for not wanting to read my later posts, I wouldn't put you through it, a right snoozefest.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

patricks148 said:



			you can't have scored that well if you shot 99

Click to expand...

 I know, was a disastrous hole.


----------



## chrisd (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			Yeah maybe that was how it may have come across, but I did try and hammer the point home, it was actually them imposing on me.

I don't blame you for not wanting to read my later posts, I wouldn't put you through it, a right snoozefest. 

Click to expand...

I've read all the posts Nick, everyone has the right to free expression!


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

chrisd said:



			I've read all the posts Nick, everyone has the right to free expression!
		
Click to expand...

Ok, so did it not come across that the point I was making that I was put off my game because I was being badgered that I need to adopt Stableford system because everyone in the UK plays it?


----------



## EarCat (Jun 23, 2014)

You sound like you think you are Tiger Woods, only you play off 28. You say you have been playing for a couple of years, you are never going to be a professional golfer, so why bother treating rounds of golf as anything more than getting out into the fresh air and doing something you enjoy. Also, you mention how you might hold up your pp's a minute a hole tops through playing stroke play, but off a 28 handicap, you can not tell me that you aren't taking 8+ shots on some holes, which takes its toll on your pp's enjoyment and patience.


----------



## chrisd (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			Ok, so did it not come across that the point I was making that I was put off my game because I was being badgered that I need to adopt Stableford system because everyone in the UK plays it?
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely did! But when we turn up for a bounce game we have a decision on what game we're going to play and we all play that format, that, I believe is the norm


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

EarCat said:



			You sound like you think you are Tiger Woods, only you play off 28. You say you have been playing for a couple of years, you are never going to be a professional golfer, so why bother treating rounds of golf as anything more than getting out into the fresh air and doing something you enjoy. Also, you mention how you might hold up your pp's a minute a hole tops through playing stroke play, but off a 28 handicap, you can not tell me that you aren't taking 8+ shots on some holes, which takes its toll on your pp's enjoyment and patience.
		
Click to expand...

I won today.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

chrisd said:



			Absolutely did! But when we turn up for a bounce game we have a decision on what game we're going to play and we all play that format, that, I believe is the norm
		
Click to expand...

Yeah it was agreed, I wasn't against it.  That wasn't the point.


----------



## jp5 (Jun 23, 2014)

I understand where you're coming from as I have been the same. You pay Â£30 for a round and you want to enjoy every shot that it takes. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with waiting for you to putt out for whatever score it is. Then again I just enjoy being out on the course instead of trying to sprint round in 3hours!

Taking out a membership may be worth considering. That way you can play with your family who want to play stableford, without feeling that you aren't getting full value. Of course you can also play by yourself and in medals.

But if I was paying Â£30 I'd be wanting to play every shot of every hole. It's not golf otherwise! :thup:


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

jp5 said:



			I understand where you're coming from as I have been the same. You pay Â£30 for a round and you want to enjoy every shot that it takes. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with waiting for you to putt out for whatever score it is. Then again I just enjoy being out on the course instead of trying to sprint round in 3hours!

Taking out a membership may be worth considering. That way you can play with your family who want to play stableford, without feeling that you aren't getting full value. Of course you can also play by yourself and in medals.

But if I was paying Â£30 I'd be wanting to play every shot of every hole. It's not golf otherwise! :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Thanks pal, I appreciate that reply.  Shows you have read what I have said and understood.

I plan to take out a membership at some point in the next 12 months, for now I am enjoying developing my game and sampling different courses.  It's all a learning curve, and some days I wouldn't mind playing Stableford, if that was the agreed format.  

But your right too, I like to play every hole, I'm not slow at all, usually find ourselves waiting for others to clear greens, but I enjoy being out, taking my time (reasonably), and absorbing every second of being on the course.


----------



## chrisd (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			Yeah it was agreed, I wasn't against it.  That wasn't the point.
		
Click to expand...

The point seemed to be that you succumbed to their wish to play Stableford, and that you don't want to play social golf, so to sum it up - you went along with 3 relatives, played off 28 and got annoyed that they didn't play as seriously as you wanted to? Surely Nick, the answer us to play with people who share your seriousness of the game!


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

chrisd said:



			The point seemed to be that you succumbed to their wish to play Stableford, and that you don't want to play social golf, so to sum it up - you went along with 3 relatives, played off 28 and got annoyed that they didn't play as seriously as you wanted to? Surely Nick, the answer us to play with people who share your seriousness of the game!
		
Click to expand...

*sigh


----------



## chrisd (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			*sigh
		
Click to expand...

Wrong?


----------



## DCB (Jun 23, 2014)

So after nine pages, it's something you have to put behind you. If being railroaded into a form of game you don't want to play is a problem in future, grow a pair and tell them so before it goes any further. 

Enjoy playing the game in all its forms, even if you prefer one form over the others, everyone has their favourite.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

Ok.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

Ok, as I am always willing to turn things to a positive, can Stableford improve my handicap? Can it improve my game?

Today I scored 33, last week 33 on the same course.  Two weeks back I scored 36 which I think it was my best.

I'm open to be educated on this method.


----------



## AmandaJR (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			Ok, as I am always willing to turn things to a positive, can Stableford improve my handicap? Can it improve my game?

Today I scored 33, last week 33 on the same course.  Two weeks back I scored 36 which I think it was my best.

I'm open to be educated on this method.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think it can improve your game BUT it can sometimes be a better guide as to where your scoring is relative to handicap. Whilst you're a high handicapper you will have a few blow up holes so converting your scores to Stableford smooths those out. Usually 36 points is playing to handicap. There are obviously times when holing out is good practice too and as you improve then looking at your gross score will become more relevant. I tend to work on gross score then nett of handicap rather than points but, as has been said, a lot depends on playing partners and the overall preference in the group.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

AmandaJR said:



			I don't think it can improve your game BUT it can sometimes be a better guide as to where your scoring is relative to handicap. Whilst you're a high handicapper you will have a few blow up holes so converting your scores to Stableford smooths those out. Usually 36 points is playing to handicap. There are obviously times when holing out is good practice too and as you improve then looking at your gross score will become more relevant. I tend to work on gross score then nett of handicap rather than points but, as has been said, a lot depends on playing partners and the overall preference in the group.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah thats my thinking too.  I use a website calculator which well calculates my score into net, taking into account my handicap, gives me a target to aim for to reduce my handicap.  Even says if your GIR is 3% better your looking at meeting a target to reduce handicap.  Stat city. 

It also gives me the Stableford score.  

So 36 is to handicap, so if I am consistently hitting that, will that be a good indication my handicap will be improved?  Looking for any pointers really to improve.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 23, 2014)

I've read through this and don't quite know what to say as I could say a lot.

So dear OP - as I don't see it mentioned earlier what I would suggest to you is that to get your scoring down from 28hcap and get greater enjoyment from the game you may simply need to look at your course management - and that is nothing to do with your striking of the golf ball.  You can improve your scoring *hugely *by understanding that very crucial aspect of the game - and indeed knock a lot more shots off your score than by trying to improve such as (as you mentioned it) your % of nine irons hit to within 6ft and logging your every shot to the bottom of every hole.

IMO (and I will be at odds with many I suspect) detailed statistical analysis of your every round is only worthwhile once you know how to manage your way around a golf course.  Once you have failed with three attempts to get out of a difficult place in a bunker you don't need to keep going until you do get out to know you have to do a bit of work on your bunker play.  But first you have to know when the bunker shot is beyond you and it is sensible to chip backwards out of the bunker.

And playing stableford will help improve your course management as you have to learn how to score a point from difficult situations.


----------



## tsped83 (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			Probably best if your going to be a bell to not bother replying.  But thanks for the effort.
		
Click to expand...

Completely unneccessary. Get a grip.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I've read through this and don't quite know what to say as I could say a lot.

So dear OP - as I don't see it mentioned earlier what I would suggest to you is that to get your scoring down from 28hcap and get greater enjoyment from the game you may simply need to look at your course management - and that is nothing to do with your striking of the golf ball.  You can improve your scoring *hugely *by understanding that very crucial aspect of the game - and indeed knock a lot more shots off your score than by trying to improve such as (as you mentioned it) your % of nine irons hit to within 6ft and logging your every shot to the bottom of every hole.

IMO (and I will be at odds with many I suspect) detailed statistical analysis of your every round is only worthwhile once you know how to manage your way around a golf course.  Once you have failed with three attempts to get out of a difficult place in a bunker you don't need to keep going until you do get out to know you have to do a bit of work on your bunker play.  But first you have to know when the bunker shot is beyond you and it is sensible to chip backwards out of the bunker.

And playing stableford will help improve your course management as you have to learn how to score a point from difficult situations.
		
Click to expand...

Fair comments.

Correct me if I am wrong, but golf is a hugely vast game to tweak to improve.  Course management I would definitely say is something I do need to work on more, although I do feel I do it to an extent.  

I love stats though, Seeing that my driving average is up to almost 50% is a good indicator for me how well I am progressing at the part of my game, if I am hitting 80% of fairways, but my FIR is low, then I know I need to improve my approach shots.

I guess I just need experience of playing with Stableford.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

tsped83 said:



			Completely unneccessary. Get a grip.
		
Click to expand...

I apologise.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			Yeah thats my thinking too.  I use a website calculator which well calculates my score into net, taking into account my handicap, gives me a target to aim for to reduce my handicap.  Even says if your GIR is 3% better your looking at meeting a target to reduce handicap.  Stat city. 

It also gives me the Stableford score.  

So 36 is to handicap, so if I am consistently hitting that, will that be a good indication my handicap will be improved?  Looking for any pointers really to improve.
		
Click to expand...

What is GIR?  

And also I'd say that your average game will see you with 32 or 33 pts (not 36 - that's your handicap stableford and your handicap is a reflection of your stretch ability).  Once you start scoring 34-36pts you will know that your overall game is improving relative to your current handicap.  You won't regularly score that number of points unless you are improving.  And so we get into the realms of how confidence and reduced uncertainty improves your game.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

Green In Regulation

So do you think Stableford can improve my game?


----------



## chrisd (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			Fair comments.

Correct me if I am wrong, but golf is a hugely vast game to tweak to improve.  Course management I would definitely say is something I do need to work on more, although I do feel I do it to an extent.  

I love stats though, Seeing that my driving average is up to almost 50% is a good indicator for me how well I am progressing at the part of my game, if I am hitting 80% of fairways, but my FIR is low, then I know I need to improve my approach shots.

I guess I just need experience of playing with Stableford.
		
Click to expand...

Swing it like Hogan is pretty spot on I think. 

You would benefit from improving course management as much as technique. Missing the dangerous places on the course can save a shed load of shots. Stats are very useful but can also so be very misleading, you could hit a tour average number of FIR's but only be 120 yards down the fairway on a 400 yard par 4, or miss 99% of GIR's by 2 foot, it's more important to know scores or Stableford points, analyse where you drop most shots in each round and work to eradicate the worst things in your game.

It's the same off 28 or 8 handicap we are all looking to improve


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

chrisd said:



			Swing it like Hogan is pretty spot on I think. 

You would benefit from improving course management as much as technique. Missing the dangerous places on the course can save a shed load of shots. Stats are very useful but can also so be very misleading, you could hit a tour average number of FIR's but only be 120 yards down the fairway on a 400 yard par 4, or miss 99% of GIR's by 2 foot, it's more important to know scores or Stableford points, analyse where you drop most shots in each round and work to eradicate the worst things in your game.

It's the same off 28 or 8 handicap we are all looking to improve
		
Click to expand...

Well like I say I kind of do try and do it, but with my wicked slice I have at the moment, I'm happy to get it on the fairway, but I do try and hit spots where I can get a good approach.

I don't play the same courses regular enough to remember the course etc, but I'm going to read up on this Stableford tonight, so at least I do understand it.

I do though like scoring regular too, as long as I'm not holding anyone up, which I wasn't today.

Today though I did avoid nearly all the traps, no bunkers, hardly in the trees, but I did lose a ball in the pond on the 16th, which I did exactly the same last time I played it.


----------



## MashieNiblick (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			Ok, as I am always willing to turn things to a positive, can Stableford improve my handicap? Can it improve my game?

Today I scored 33, last week 33 on the same course.  Two weeks back I scored 36 which I think it was my best.

I'm open to be educated on this method.
		
Click to expand...

Read all the posts. Sorry you didn't enjoy your round. It happens. Best to move on.

To answer this specific question I would say, where you are now, playing Stableford can definitely help you.

Why?

You have a target - 2 points on every hole. You have a shot or 2 to use to help you get those points. I don't know what your aim is currently when you play each hole, but making par on every one isn't realistic and just trying to take fewest shots is a bit unfocussed. Make those 2 points your goal. That should concentrate your mind and make you think about using your shots, i.e. playing the hole tactically, to get those points. 

If you don't get 2 make sure you get 1. So that means you will have to make putt for a point, it's all or nothing. That will encourage you to putt more positively but also get you used to a bit of pressure. More so than holing out for an 8 rather than a 9 which might only be the difference between a 96 and a 97.

So in my view Stableford can certainly be used in a positive way to develop your game.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

MashieNiblick said:



			Read all the posts. Sorry you didn't enjoy your round. It happens. Best to move on.

To answer this specific question I would say, where you are now, playing Stableford can definitely help you.

Why?

You have a target - 2 points on every hole. You have a shot or 2 to use to help you get those points. I don't know what your aim is currently when you play each hole, but making par on every one isn't realistic and just trying to take fewest shots is a bit unfocussed. Make those 2 points your goal. That should concentrate your mind and make you think about using your shots, i.e. playing the hole tactically, to get those points. 

If you don't get 2 make sure you get 1. So that means you will have to make putt for a point, it's all or nothing. That will encourage you to putt more positively but also get you used to a bit of pressure. More so than holing out for an 8 rather than a 9 which might only be the difference between a 96 and a 97.

So in my view Stableford can certainly be used in a positive way to develop your game.
		
Click to expand...

Great reply, thanks.

Do you still score regular too?  I mean I would hate to pick my ball up if I had a 10ft putt left, but I can see why you would do it if you were hacking away in a bunker.


----------



## MashieNiblick (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			Great reply, thanks.

Do you still score regular too?  I mean I would hate to pick my ball up if I had a 10ft putt left, but I can see why you would do it if you were hacking away in a bunker. 

Click to expand...

Up to you. No harm but it would depend if there is really any value in it. The idea is to use the Stableford system to put a bit of pressure on yourself, get a point or walk on. Will holing a put for the sake of it with no pressure be of any benefit? You can do that on the practice green any time. Picking the ball out of the hole is your reward for playing well!


----------



## North Mimms (Jun 23, 2014)

MashieNiblick said:



			Read all the posts. Sorry you didn't enjoy your round. It happens. Best to move on.

To answer this specific question I would say, where you are now, playing Stableford can definitely help you.

Why?

You have a target - 2 points on every hole. You have a shot or 2 to use to help you get those points. I don't know what your aim is currently when you play each hole, but making par on every one isn't realistic and just trying to take fewest shots is a bit unfocussed. Make those 2 points your goal. That should concentrate your mind and make you think about using your shots, i.e. playing the hole tactically, to get those points. 

If you don't get 2 make sure you get 1. So that means you will have to make putt for a point, it's all or nothing. That will encourage you to putt more positively but also get you used to a bit of pressure. More so than holing out for an 8 rather than a 9 which might only be the difference between a 96 and a 97.

So in my view Stableford can certainly be used in a positive way to develop your game.
		
Click to expand...

That's a very well thought out and helpful post:clap:


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

MashieNiblick said:



			Up to you. No harm but it would depend if there is really any value in it. The idea is to use the Stableford system to put a bit of pressure on yourself, get a point or walk on. Will holing a put for the sake of it with no pressure be of any benefit? You can do that on the practice green any time. Picking the ball out of the hole is your reward for playing well!
		
Click to expand...

Well something you need to know about me.  I am very detailed about my life.  I work in an industry where details are paramount, and I love statistics etc...

I'd love to shoot a net under par round, I also track my rounds since I started playing again.  I love looking back and seeing how I'm improving.  So even if I score a 110 one round, but then hit a 99 2 weeks later on the same course, I love that comparison.  Maybe I'm just odd like that, but I enjoy that element of the game.

I also use the Nike app to track my scores, gives me my driving average and other stuff.  I'm not sure how it would work if I was to play Stableford instead.

When I play Medal play I do give myself a target of a bogey on each hole, but I see what your saying with the pressure of getting points.

Maybe I'll play Stableford if I play with guys who are more used to that, and keep the Medal play when I go out on my own.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			That's a very well thought out and helpful post:clap:
		
Click to expand...

I thought so too.


----------



## Jungle (Jun 23, 2014)

I sense the 'lone wolf' is strong in this one.

I jest but seriously allowing this kind of thing to eat away at you will never allow you to improve your game. 

To be honest I'm more surprised at the fact four men were unable to all agree on a format. I don't think you stated who invited who but it should be a quick case of "what are we playing lads" "Gimmies?" and "couple of pound?" then off you go. If the majority wanted to play stableford then accept it and get involved.

You might be surprised at what you get out of your game if you take some of the intensity or demands you are putting on your game. You always here guys during a medal say "I need to treat this like a bounce game"


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

Jungle said:



			I sense the 'lone wolf' is strong in this one.

I jest but seriously allowing this kind of thing to eat away at you will never allow you to improve your game. 

To be honest I'm more surprised at the fact four men were unable to all agree on a format. I don't think you stated who invited who but it should be a quick case of "what are we playing lads" "Gimmies?" and "couple of pound?" then off you go. If the majority wanted to play stableford then accept it and get involved.

You might be surprised at what you get out of your game if you take some of the intensity or demands you are putting on your game. You always here guys during a medal say "I need to treat this like a bounce game"
		
Click to expand...

Oh they agreed that they would play it, and I asked if it was ok if I scored normally anyway, obviously I didn't realise the full extent of having to pick up if your miles behind finishing a hole.

But I never had to pick up that often really.  I scored really well, plus one is my Dad, the other was my Uncle and his friend.  

I was quite annoyed earlier and I know I shouldn't have let it upset me, but I went out 4 under net, then on the 10th I got the lectures, then came back 8 over, so it kind of did my head in.

Lesson learnt though.

I also though never even heard of a Bounce Game.  Its a new term to me.


----------



## chrisd (Jun 23, 2014)

Jungle said:



			I sense the 'lone wolf' is strong in this one.

I jest but seriously allowing this kind of thing to eat away at you will never allow you to improve your game. 

To be honest I'm more surprised at the fact four men were unable to all agree on a format. I don't think you stated who invited who but it should be a quick case of "what are we playing lads" "Gimmies?" and "couple of pound?" then off you go. If the majority wanted to play stableford then accept it and get involved.

You might be surprised at what you get out of your game if you take some of the intensity or demands you are putting on your game. You always here guys during a medal say "I need to treat this like a bounce game"
		
Click to expand...

Good summing up!

Also, I think it's good to ring the changes. If you play some 4bbb Matchplay it can give you the chance to play a little more aggressively at times, try shots with less fear, have a go at the more difficult without consequences as there isn't the fear of messing up the scorecard and stats


----------



## patricks148 (Jun 23, 2014)

Id still like to know how scoring 99 was better than handicap and that was you playing well?

what was the SSS?


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

patricks148 said:



			Id still like to know how scoring 99 was better than handicap and that was you playing well?

what was the SSS?
		
Click to expand...

Sorry I don't understand.

99 is my best score, my unofficial handicap is calculated at 28.  I've hit 99 twice, last time the SSS was 69 and the one before was 68.

Excuse my beginner status here on this, I'm still learning, but tell me, I will get it and will be a better golfer because of it.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 23, 2014)

Well that's an interesting read - my two pennies worth would be 

1. Enjoy the game - you are a 28 HC so you can't take the game too seriously right now - not meaning any disrespect 

2. Realise that 99% of bounce games etc are stableford - if you can't score then pick up

3. Ready golf is great for keeping the game moving along - is anyone really that precious about having the "honour" 

4. Speak to your FC before the game to ensure the game rules are sorted early and go with the majority 

5. If you don't want to hear chat and banter on a golf course then play on a PC or play the game on your own - the banter and chat is 90% the main reason I keep playing the game.


----------



## patricks148 (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			Sorry I don't understand.

99 is my best score, my unofficial handicap is calculated at 28.  I've hit 99 twice, last time the SSS was 69 and the one before was 68.

Excuse my beginner status here on this, I'm still learning, but tell me, I will get it and will be a better golfer because of it.
		
Click to expand...

are you getting confused with par? the sss is the "Standard Scratch Score" which is what a scratch golfer would shoot on that particular course. so if its 68 then 99 is 3 over handicap but buffer zone.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well that's an interesting read - my two pennies worth would be 

1. Enjoy the game - you are a 28 HC so you can't take the game too seriously right now - not meaning any disrespect 

2. Realise that 99% of bounce games etc are stableford - if you can't score then pick up

3. Ready golf is great for keeping the game moving along - is anyone really that precious about having the "honour" 

4. Speak to your FC before the game to ensure the game rules are sorted early and go with the majority 

5. If you don't want to hear chat and banter on a golf course then play on a PC or play the game on your own - the banter and chat is 90% the main reason I keep playing the game.
		
Click to expand...

Ok, let me reply to clarify.

1.  I'm not taking it seriously, just don't appreciate lectures on a tee, especially as it wasn't warranted, I wasn't being slow at all.
2.  I didn't have to ever pick up apart from once, but I two putted and it took less time then for everyone else to clear the green and get back in the buggy.
3.  I can live without that.
4.  FC?
5.  Banter is ok, I'm not a boring person, far from it.  Just not when your about to play a shot.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

patricks148 said:



			are you getting confused with par? the sss is the "Standard Scratch Score" which is what a scratch golfer would shoot on that particular course. so if its 68 then 99 is 3 over handicap but buffer zone.
		
Click to expand...

So if I score a 99 on a 68 SSS (the Par was 69 btw), what is the net score? because the Todays Golfer calculator site gives me 71 as net.


----------



## JezzE (Jun 23, 2014)

Some pretty uncompromising replies here from people who have never at any stage insisted on finishing every hole  because they want to see what their score really is...


----------



## AmandaJR (Jun 23, 2014)

FC = Fellow Competitor
PP = Playing Partner

It would be useful for this Forum to have a list of abbreviations 

If the Par is 69 but the SSS is 68 then it plays one shot easier. So 37 points is playing to handicap. This is where Stableford conversion helps you compare your score to the course difficulty/your handicap.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 23, 2014)

In my own opinion, the best way for the OP to improve and learn how to play well in a competitive environment is to join a club, put three qualifying cards in, get a handicap and then aim to get cut. You'll play with more golfers, play different formats and to be honest will probably get a lot less hassle than you did playing today. 

I do think some of the posts have been a bit OTT. Plough your own furrow, do it your own way and enjoy the journey. Some days will be better than others but those days when you get it clicking will make all the bad ones a distant memory. If you want to hole out and you definitely aren't causing a delay behind then why not?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			Ok, let me reply to clarify.

1.  I'm not taking it seriously, just don't appreciate lectures on a tee, especially as it wasn't warranted, I wasn't being slow at all.
2.  I didn't have to ever pick up apart from once, but I two putted and it took less time then for everyone else to clear the green and get back in the buggy.
3.  I can live without that.
4.  FC?
5.  Banter is ok, I'm not a boring person, far from it.  Just not when your about to play a shot. 

Click to expand...

1. sounds good - missed where you said they lectured you 

2. I thought you said you took your time putting out earlier ? If you are scoring then just keep the pace good

3. Again good 

4. fellow competitor - just clarify before you start how you all want to play 

5. Ah right - didn't realise they were talking when you were playing your shot


----------



## AmandaJR (Jun 23, 2014)

This link might be useful regarding general golf information for newcomers (though it may be US biased):

http://golf.about.com/od/beginners/a/faq_beginners.htm


----------



## patricks148 (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			So if I score a 99 on a 68 SSS (the Par was 69 btw), what is the net score? because the Todays Golfer calculator site gives me 71 as net.
		
Click to expand...

yes 71 is the net but to beat handicap you have to shoot under SSS not 3 over it, though strictly speaking 3 over in is within the buffer for a cat 4


----------



## Deleted Member 1156 (Jun 23, 2014)

Nick

A quick golfing lesson for you.......there are two types of golf

1)  Competitive golf where you go out to score as well as possible and give full concentration to every shot

2) Bounce games, where you have a laugh, enjoy the company and (hopefully) play reasonably well, maybe try out a few new things while you are out there.


Sounds like in this case you were playing No2.

Don't worry about it mate.....there are lots of worse things you could have been doing instead  :thup:


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

patricks148 said:



			yes 71 is the net but to beat handicap you have to shoot under SSS not 3 over it, though strictly speaking 3 over in is within the buffer for a cat 4
		
Click to expand...

Right so to reduce my handicap I need to be scoring under 96 on a 68 SSS?


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Nick

A quick golfing lesson for you.......there are two types of golf

1)  Competitive golf where you go out to score as well as possible and give full concentration to every shot

2) Bounce games, where you have a laugh, enjoy the company and (hopefully) play reasonably well, maybe try out a few new things while you are out there.


Sounds like in this case you were playing No2.

Don't worry about it mate.....there are lots of worse things you could have been doing instead  :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I didn't realise it was the case.  At the moment I am really concentrating on improving my game, more so than just having a laugh.  Not to say I don't have a laugh, just its more important that I get my swing right, and my putting more accurate.

But I won today, and I wasn't slow at all.    Small victories.


----------



## Golfmmad (Jun 23, 2014)

I think most of the replies to this thread have been from mid to low handicappers and therefore not seen from a high handicappers point of view. And some folk need to remember that not all golfers can reduce their handicap, for one reason or another, as quickly as some can.

When I started playing I did exactly as the OP does, I wanted to know my scores for each hole and to compare the overall score to the round before, and I wanted, and hoped to see the improvement.

Some of the advice has been good but on the other hand some has been a bit too advanced for a 28 handicapper. I also agree with Homer, the best advice is to join a club, get 3 cards in for an official handicap and get out there and play! You will probably find that you will prefer Medal play in club competitions. I would always rather win a Medal comp than a Stableford - it's true golf.

Oh, and congrats on that 9 iron shot, 

It's what we all come back for!


----------



## palindromicbob (Jun 23, 2014)

Personally I think stableford is a great format especially for the beginning golfer. It's easier to keep up pace with the field compared to a medal. It take the pressure of your round especially if that bad hole comes early.  It easy to assess yourself against SSS and how your handicap will fair and it's easy to monitor your progress. 

Say for example your and 18 handicapper (just for the sake of making stroke index easy to work out). 

You go out and bogey the first 3 holes 2 par fours and a par 3. Happy days. 6 points. Gross score of 14. 


4th hole a par 5. First & second tee shots snap hooks go OOB. Oh dear. 3rd attempt goes into the thick cabbage. You can practice playing out of it or go straight to pick up the ball knowing your are unlikely to score and keep up the pace. You now need two pars in your round to balance the mistake. That's possible so forget the hole and get back to it.

Now compare that to stroke. 

4th hole a par 5. First & second tee shots snap hooks go OOB. 3rd attempt goes into the thick cabbage. Attempt to get distance on the first try. Goes forward 3 feet. Now you hack out sideways. That's your 7th. Next shot is grand and leaves you a pitch. The pitch is on the dance floor but leaves a 30 footer. First putt is left short because you let your frustration get to you, second just misses and leaves a 2 footer back you walk up to it thinking it's no bother but lip out and are left on the edge. You finish off and card a 13. 

You are now 11 over through 4 and need to par 7 of the remaining holes and no worse than bogey the others to shoot handicap. A much harder feat to achieve. 

This example may sound ridiculous but unfortunately it is pretty much a blow by blow account of one of my first ever stroke comps. Admittedly I had a 21 handicap so only needed to par 4 of the remaining holes and no worse than bogey the rest. But then I was a 21 handicapper for a reason and that wasn't going to be an easy feat. (Failed miserably by the way)

As you improve you can set your goal to scoring on every hole. This will return you a gross score. And on hole where you are on the green with a chance for a point there is nothing wrong with finishing those off and getting that gross score. 

*The biggest frustration with Stableford lies in the prizes. A high handicapper winning after 46 points with a blob or 2 doesn't go down well when the single figure handicapper who just scored 39 points with a gross score under par fails to place*.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

Golfmmad said:



			I think most of the replies to this thread have been from mid to low handicappers and therefore not seen from a high handicappers point of view. And some folk need to remember that not all golfers can reduce their handicap, for one reason or another, as quickly as some can.

When I started playing I did exactly as the OP does, I wanted to know my scores for each hole and to compare the overall score to the round before, and I wanted, and hoped to see the improvement.

Some of the advice has been good but on the other hand some has been a bit too advanced for a 28 handicapper. I also agree with Homer, the best advice is to join a club, get 3 cards in for an official handicap and get out there and play! You will probably find that you will prefer Medal play in club competitions. I would always rather win a Medal comp than a Stableford - it's true golf.

Oh, and congrats on that 9 iron shot, 

It's what we all come back for!
		
Click to expand...

Thanks pal, appreciate that reply.  Some were probably a little too harsh, but its ok, water off a ducks back.

Yeah the 9 iron was stunning if I do say so myself.  Developed out of confidence with having a better posture and controlled swing. 

I also obviously agree with your comment about it being true golf.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			In my own opinion, the best way for the OP to improve and learn how to play well in a competitive environment is to join a club, put three qualifying cards in, get a handicap and then aim to get cut. You'll play with more golfers, play different formats and to be honest will probably get a lot less hassle than you did playing today. 

I do think some of the posts have been a bit OTT. Plough your own furrow, do it your own way and enjoy the journey. Some days will be better than others but those days when you get it clicking will make all the bad ones a distant memory. If you want to hole out and you definitely aren't causing a delay behind then why not?
		
Click to expand...

I know, I may well own Nike stuff, but I'm no Tiger Woods (yet) 

I'm going to join a club as soon as I am settled in my life, since my marriage breakdown I've been homeless to one degree or another, was in Canada for 3 months, but hoping to put down roots in August, so I may well join a club.  Me and my Dad have been talking about it for a while now.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 23, 2014)

palindromicbob said:



			Personally I think stableford is a great format especially for the beginning golfer. It's easier to keep up pace with the field compared to a medal. It take the pressure of your round especially if that bad hole comes early.  It easy to assess yourself against SSS and how your handicap will fair and it's easy to monitor your progress. 

Say for example your and 18 handicapper (just for the sake of making stroke index easy to work out). 

You go out and bogey the first 3 holes 2 par fours and a par 3. Happy days. 6 points. Gross score of 14. 


4th hole a par 5. First & second tee shots snap hooks go OOB. Oh dear. 3rd attempt goes into the thick cabbage. You can practice playing out of it or go straight to pick up the ball knowing your are unlikely to score and keep up the pace. You now need two pars in your round to balance the mistake. That's possible so forget the hole and get back to it.

Now compare that to stroke. 

4th hole a par 5. First & second tee shots snap hooks go OOB. 3rd attempt goes into the thick cabbage. Attempt to get distance on the first try. Goes forward 3 feet. Now you hack out sideways. That's your 7th. Next shot is grand and leaves you a pitch. The pitch is on the dance floor but leaves a 30 footer. First putt is left short because you let your frustration get to you, second just misses and leaves a 2 footer back you walk up to it thinking it's no bother but lip out and are left on the edge. You finish off and card a 13. 

You are now 11 over through 4 and need to par 7 of the remaining holes and no worse than bogey the others to shoot handicap. A much harder feat to achieve. 

This example may sound ridiculous but unfortunately it is pretty much a blow by blow account of one of my first ever stroke comps. Admittedly I had a 21 handicap so only needed to par 4 of the remaining holes and no worse than bogey the rest. But then I was a 21 handicapper for a reason and that wasn't going to be an easy feat. (Failed miserably by the way)

As you improve you can set your goal to scoring on every hole. This will return you a gross score. And on hole where you are on the green with a chance for a point there is nothing wrong with finishing those off and getting that gross score. 

*The biggest frustration with Stableford lies in the prizes. A high handicapper winning after 46 points with a blob or 2 doesn't go down well when the single figure handicapper who just scored 39 points with a gross score under par fails to place*.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks, well explained.


----------



## Chris1980 (Jun 23, 2014)

Gil_Emott said:



			If you were playing a stableford competition off your 28 handicap, you would have 9 holes where you got 2 shots. Say one is a par 4, after the 7th shot none of the others count towards your handicap anyway, and as such in a stableford you can pick up, shake yourself off and head over to the next tee knowing that all you had lost was 2 points, which can be salvaged with a good hole later on.

My advice, don't get too technical, don't get too down on yourself after bad shots/holes, and enjoy it.
		
Click to expand...

Having read the whole thread I still believe this to be a great bit of advice, and not just for you Nick but for all us golfers!!


----------



## FairwayDodger (Jun 23, 2014)

I agree the OP could maybe chill out a bit and enjoy the bounce games more but, yeah, stableford is rubbish. It has a place, I suppose, but don't  believe a word, not everybody plays it. Should be a bit of give and take for bounce games, agree the format, vary it and just enjoy. If you can't score but want to putt out anyway, who cares? But if you've already hit 10 shots and are still knee deep in the rough, maybe you could just pick up?


----------



## chrisd (Jun 23, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			I agree the OP could maybe chill out a bit and enjoy the bounce games more but, yeah, stableford is rubbish. It has a place, I suppose, but don't  believe a word, not everybody plays it. Should be a bit of give and take for bounce games, agree the format, vary it and just enjoy. If you can't score but want to putt out anyway, who cares? But if you've already hit 10 shots and are still knee deep in the rough, maybe you could just pick up?
		
Click to expand...

Agreed, we almost always do Matchplay in friendly bounce games


----------



## FairwayDodger (Jun 23, 2014)

chrisd said:



			Agreed, we almost always do Matchplay in friendly bounce games
		
Click to expand...

Yip, we usually play matchplay although both tend to finish the hole for a score. But are pragmatic about it and pick up if having a disaster, or maybe drop a ball after losing one and just play out with that....


----------



## garyinderry (Jun 24, 2014)

homer is right.  get an official handicap.  when you do, you can pore over your stats from competitions till your heart is content.


found it a bit funny that you were ranting about stable ford without really knowing what it is.  


if you are serious about improving then you must practice yourself.  range and course time.  see the bounce games as a mini comp getting you ready for proper competitions towards handicap.  

once you get to a certain handicap, its rare to have a good round (stableford) unless you have a good medal score.  until then, just concentrate on scoring good stabelford scores.


----------



## Slab (Jun 24, 2014)

Nick I used to think like you when I first started, it was all about the gross score, breaking 100, collecting stats, comparing rounds etc etc etc... and dismissing stableford as a format I wanted to play

Mostly because I didn't really understand stableford, I thought like you that I knew the basics of it, at least enough to know I wasn't interested... couldn't have been more wrong

At high handicap level its much easier to improve using stableford because as said, you focus on the 1-2-3 point prize that's available on each hole and the bad holes do count and are not forgotten... it cost you points!

You should know that if you cant get out a bunker on the 1st attempt you need to work on bunkers, you don't actually need to hit all 3-4 attempts(what do you think your stats will say if you move from 4 attempts to 2? that you have improved your bunker play by 50%!) any more than 1 is too many. Same with putting, more than 2 is too many and you need to work on putting

I stand on a tee, work out _*my *_par (forget what the scorecard says) if I get a shot on a par 4 then my par is 5 for two points, I know I need to keep a couple of the 5 for putts so green in three is my target then I decide what shot/club to hit off the tee, takes about 2 seconds to realise its not driver off every hole and actually a hybrid-hybrid-chip gets me there on target (and now and again that 2nd hybrid might be on the green) 

You'll be surprised how many course designs/layouts are actually weighted towards penalising the high handicapper over the low handicap guy... not because they want to mess with us specifically but because the low guy knows when/how to avoid the trouble  

When your scoring mid to high 30's in points you can also add your gross score up and track that too (because you'll probably be putting out every hole to score high 30's in points)

The games much more fun if you can still have a chance of a respectable round after a blow out hole... jees what if you score 11 on the 2nd? how much are you going to enjoy the next 16 holes. So many times I've chucked an non competitive scorecard in the tee bin after starting badly when I just did gross scoring. 

The Stableford scoring system says 'learn from it you plonker it just cost you 2 (or more) points... but it didn't cost you your sanity'! 

Enjoy


----------



## guest100718 (Jun 24, 2014)

palindromicbob said:



			Personally I think stableford is a great format especially for the beginning golfer. It's easier to keep up pace with the field compared to a medal. It take the pressure of your round especially if that bad hole comes early.  It easy to assess yourself against SSS and how your handicap will fair and it's easy to monitor your progress. 

Say for example your and 18 handicapper (just for the sake of making stroke index easy to work out). 

You go out and bogey the first 3 holes 2 par fours and a par 3. Happy days. 6 points. Gross score of 14. 


4th hole a par 5. First & second tee shots snap hooks go OOB. Oh dear. 3rd attempt goes into the thick cabbage. You can practice playing out of it or go straight to pick up the ball knowing your are unlikely to score and keep up the pace. You now need two pars in your round to balance the mistake. That's possible so forget the hole and get back to it.

Now compare that to stroke. 

4th hole a par 5. First & second tee shots snap hooks go OOB. 3rd attempt goes into the thick cabbage. Attempt to get distance on the first try. Goes forward 3 feet. Now you hack out sideways. That's your 7th. Next shot is grand and leaves you a pitch. The pitch is on the dance floor but leaves a 30 footer. First putt is left short because you let your frustration get to you, second just misses and leaves a 2 footer back you walk up to it thinking it's no bother but lip out and are left on the edge. You finish off and card a 13. 

You are now 11 over through 4 and need to par 7 of the remaining holes and no worse than bogey the others to shoot handicap. A much harder feat to achieve. 

This example may sound ridiculous but unfortunately it is pretty much a blow by blow account of one of my first ever stroke comps. Admittedly I had a 21 handicap so only needed to par 4 of the remaining holes and no worse than bogey the rest. But then I was a 21 handicapper for a reason and that wasn't going to be an easy feat. (Failed miserably by the way)

As you improve you can set your goal to scoring on every hole. This will return you a gross score. And on hole where you are on the green with a chance for a point there is nothing wrong with finishing those off and getting that gross score. 

*The biggest frustration with Stableford lies in the prizes. A high handicapper winning after 46 points with a blob or 2 doesn't go down well when the single figure handicapper who just scored 39 points with a gross score under par fails to place*.
		
Click to expand...


Is it possible to shoot under par and score 39 points of a single figure hdcp?


----------



## patricks148 (Jun 24, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			Right so to reduce my handicap I need to be scoring under 96 on a 68 SSS?
		
Click to expand...

to get a handicap reduction you need to shoot under the CSS in a comp (official Handicap that is) 

Each cat has a number of shots that will put you in buffer zone, Cat 1 has on shot up to cat 4 with i think 4 shots (im not sure on that though. so shooting buffer is effectively playing to your handicap, just allowing for margin for error so to speak.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jun 24, 2014)

Nick, what stats are you tracking?


----------



## JamesR (Jun 24, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Nick, what stats are you tracking?
		
Click to expand...

... & what are you comparing them to?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 24, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Is it possible to shoot under par and score 39 points of a single figure hdcp?
		
Click to expand...

Someone playing off 2 could score 1 under gross and get 39 points


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 24, 2014)

If I was the OP, I would forget par on each hole and treat every one as a par five. Level 5's is 90. What you make up for with the odd par at the 3's and shorter 4's you'll lose at the longer 4's and par 5's. It takes the pressure off having to try and make the par on the card, and I found when I was starting, and inded coming back to the game, it meant I was more relaxed, swung smoother, especially on the long holes and the game began to flow better as a result and the scores improved.


----------



## Slab (Jun 24, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



*If I was the OP, I would forget par on each hole and treat every one as a par five. Level 5's is 90. What you make up for with the odd par at the 3's and shorter 4's you'll lose at the longer 4's and par 5's.* It takes the pressure off having to try and make the par on the card, and I found when I was starting, and inded coming back to the game, it meant I was more relaxed, swung smoother, especially on the long holes and the game began to flow better as a result and the scores improved.
		
Click to expand...

I've used this and while it works its got a pretty short shelf life. Your mind catches on pretty quick that a 5 on a par 3 isn't par 

I find it easier and takes no longer just to work out _*my Par*_ for any particular hole so that when faced with a long tough par 5, then you're not attempting to still score 5 when it could easily be a par7 for me and I play it accordingly and not chasing an unrealistic score on that hole


----------



## FairwayDodger (Jun 24, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			If I was the OP, I would forget par on each hole and treat every one as a par five. Level 5's is 90. What you make up for with the odd par at the 3's and shorter 4's you'll lose at the longer 4's and par 5's. It takes the pressure off having to try and make the par on the card, and I found when I was starting, and inded coming back to the game, it meant I was more relaxed, swung smoother, especially on the long holes and the game began to flow better as a result and the scores improved.
		
Click to expand...

Good tip. I also did this. In fact, waaay back when I first started and couldn't break 100 I counted my score relative to 6s (108 is level 6s). Swapped to counting v 5s once I was breaking 100 regularly and only relative to par when breaking 90 was routine.

It's a good way to keep things in proportion and "4 over 5s" is somehow subconsciously better than "22 over par".


----------



## JamesR (Jun 24, 2014)

Slab said:



			I've used this and while it works its got a pretty short shelf life. Your mind catches on pretty quick that a 5 on a par 3 isn't par 

I find it easier and takes no longer just to work out _*my Par*_ for any particular hole so that when faced with a long tough par 5, then you're not attempting to still score 5 when it could easily be a par7 for me and I play it accordingly and not chasing an unrealistic score on that hole
		
Click to expand...

I never used to use score per hole, but rather score per group of holes.
Say you are a 15 handicapper, aim to be 2 over par for every 3 holes. If you manage that you've gone round in 12 over, 3 under handicap.
If you don't manage it on one group of 3 holes don't worry about it, move onto the next 3 hole group and try to do it on them.

So if you are a 28 handicapper aim for 4 over per 3 holes, 9 handicapper go for 1 over per 3 holes.

It was something Per Ulrik Johannson recommended years ago in a magazine article. The idea being not to get too hung up on what has passed, move onto the next phase.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 24, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			If I was the OP, I would forget par on each hole and treat every one as a par five. Level 5's is 90. What you make up for with the odd par at the 3's and shorter 4's you'll lose at the longer 4's and par 5's. It takes the pressure off having to try and make the par on the card, and I found when I was starting, and inded coming back to the game, it meant I was more relaxed, swung smoother, especially on the long holes and the game began to flow better as a result and the scores improved.
		
Click to expand...

That's my advice to such as Nick and what I did when at his stage - though I was a young teen at the time so perhaps easier to accept I wasn't going for the real par on a hole.  My par for every hole was 5.   I advise keeping track of my score relative to 5s - so you start with a 4 you are 1 under for the round.  6 on the next - you are level for the round.  And so on.  Even a 8 on a par 4 is just 3 over - and when you get a 3 - boy does that 2 under for that hole feel good.  I found it really positive to be able to say to myself that I was say 'level' and eventually 'under'.  So the likes of 6 over 5s (actually a 96 or 24 over on a SSS72 track) doesn't feel bad.  It's in the mind.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 24, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Good tip. I also did this. In fact, waaay back when I first started and couldn't break 100 I counted my score relative to 6s (108 is level 6s). Swapped to counting v 5s once I was breaking 100 regularly and only relative to par when breaking 90 was routine.

It's a good way to keep things in proportion and "4 over 5s" is somehow subconsciously better than "22 over par".
		
Click to expand...

THis ++ thumbs up - me and you the same


----------



## garyinderry (Jun 24, 2014)

nick you will soon find out that keeping stats at 28 handicap is pretty pointless.  you need to work on all parts of your game.   its highly unlikely that you will find something that you might think, "right that's the driving nailed down" as you will come out the next day and wont be able to hit a fairway for love nor money. 


that is just the nature of the game.


----------



## JamesR (Jun 24, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			...its highly unlikely that you will find something that you might think, "right that's the driving nailed down" as you will come out the next day and wont be able to hit a fairway for love nor money. 


that is just the nature of the game.
		
Click to expand...

and not just for high handicappers - took me 10 holes to hit a fairway last time out, the previous round I was driving like a pro.


----------



## Slab (Jun 24, 2014)

Gil_Emott said:



			and not just for high handicappers - took me 10 holes to hit a fairway last time out, *the previous round I was driving like a pro*.
		
Click to expand...

Its all relative, depends who the pro was


----------



## garyinderry (Jun 24, 2014)

Gil_Emott said:



			and not just for high handicappers - took me 10 holes to hit a fairway last time out, the previous round I was driving like a pro.
		
Click to expand...

when he is a little more consistent he could look at GIR, up and down, 3 putts, missing left/right etc.   


barely breaking 100, they are just not worth it. just concentrate on course management and the swing.    

half an hour putting on the carpet at home would be more useful than filling in stats and pouring over them at this stage.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 24, 2014)

And to be absolutely honest to the OP (Nick).  

If I was to go out for an early evening casual knock and joined up with someone who insisted in holing out every hole - regardless of how many taken - I can see myself getting a little frustrated.  And unfortunately that feeling would be mightily exacerbated were the player a high handicapper - purely because in my eyes his holing out wouldn't be helping him - and it would - almost 100% certainly - be slowing up our play.


----------



## bladeplayer (Jun 24, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Is it possible to shoot under par and score 39 points of a single figure hdcp?
		
Click to expand...


Guy off 2 shoots -1
Guy off 1 shoots -2


----------



## woody69 (Jun 24, 2014)

Slab said:



			I've used this and while it works its got a pretty short shelf life. Your mind catches on pretty quick that a 5 on a par 3 isn't par 

I find it easier and takes no longer just to work out _*my Par*_ for any particular hole so that when faced with a long tough par 5, then you're not attempting to still score 5 when it could easily be a par7 for me and I play it accordingly and not chasing an unrealistic score on that hole
		
Click to expand...


Yeah, agree with that. Saying level 5's across the card is nice in theory, but you soon start thinking, oh I got 7 on that last hole, so I now need to get a 3 to make that up and remain level 5. Where as if you were actually given 2 shots on the last hole and shot a 7 for your 2 points you kind of forget about it.


----------



## guest100718 (Jun 24, 2014)

bladeplayer said:



			Guy off 2 shoots -1
Guy off 1 shoots -2
		
Click to expand...

yeah i thought about it after, much more likely that a 15 shooting 46 points ide say.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jun 24, 2014)

My daughter scored 38 points off +1 once. She found it strange having to birdie SI 18 to score two points.

OP can I take my hat off to you.
You compile stats, hole every putt and score over 100 on all but a handful of your rounds and you still don't hold anyone up, that is superb, well done.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 24, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			OP can I take my hat off to you.
You compile stats, hole every putt and score over 100 on all but a handful of your rounds and you still don't hold anyone up, that is superb, well done.
		
Click to expand...

Now, now Doon - that is verging on having a touch of sarcasm in it.  But I share your concerns as our OP may not be very acquainted with 'getting on with it' (rather than 'brisk') play as you or I might know it - and hence might not appreciate that his pace might to some actually be rather slow - and indeed that slow play and length of time on the golf course are not necessarily one and the same thing.


----------



## jonny1409 (Jun 24, 2014)

As others have no doubt said (I haven't read the whole thread yet), but Stableford and Percieved Lack of Etiquette have nothing to do with each other.
You can play Stableford and still show the proper etiquette.

However, I'd say your group were more about keeping the pace of play going rather than deliberately trying to show poor etiquette.
Any societies that I've been involved with in the past have tended to do this as it can be tough getting 10-15 groups round in good time without this.

Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with it either, as I don't care about the 'honour' of going first or whatever.
However, some I play with do so I make sure I allow them it when I'm playing with them.

Also, even when you're playing stableford you can still putt out, and again I choose to do this when I play as I want to test myself on the short ones.
Where stableford has a huge advantage though is if you lose a ball, or rack up a huge score - you don't have to mess about with walking back to the tee to re-take a shot, thus holding people up more.

The most important thing is enjoy it.
People spend plenty of their time doing other things with work / kids / wives / husbands or whatever - take advantage of that quality time you get with just you and your playing partners, and enjoy every moment, regardless of score.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 24, 2014)

jonny1409 said:



			As others have no doubt said (I haven't read the whole thread yet), but Stableford and Percieved Lack of Etiquette have nothing to do with each other.
You can play Stableford and still show the proper etiquette.

However, I'd say your group were more about keeping the pace of play going rather than deliberately trying to show poor etiquette.
Any societies that I've been involved with in the past have tended to do this as it can be tough getting 10-15 groups round in good time without this.

Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with it either, as I don't care about the 'honour' of going first or whatever.
However, some I play with do so I make sure I allow them it when I'm playing with them.

Also, even when you're playing stableford you can still putt out, and again I choose to do this when I play as I want to test myself on the short ones.
Where stableford has a huge advantage though is if you lose a ball, or rack up a huge score - you don't have to mess about with walking back to the tee to re-take a shot, thus holding people up more.

The most important thing is enjoy it.
People spend plenty of their time doing other things with work / kids / wives / husbands or whatever - take advantage of that quality time you get with just you and your playing partners, and enjoy every moment, regardless of score.
		
Click to expand...

On the perceived 'lack of etiquette' by the other guys - I think they were actually trying to say 'let's get a move on - this round doesn't matter that much so let's just get on with it as soon as we are ready to play'  So they were actually trying to pass that message to our OP.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 24, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			On the perceived 'lack of etiquette' by the other guys - I think they were actually trying to say 'let's get a move on - this round doesn't matter that much so let's just get on with it as soon as we are ready to play'  So they were actually trying to pass that message to our OP.
		
Click to expand...

That wasn't the case.  We were flying around anyway.  Much quicker than normal, and completed a 4 ball in under 4 hours, which I thought was fast, maybe it wasn't.  But it was a lovely day, nobody was pressurising us, so there would have been no need to rush anyway.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 24, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			That wasn't the case.  We were flying around anyway.  Much quicker than normal, and completed a 4 ball in under 4 hours, which I thought was fast, maybe it wasn't.  But it was a lovely day, nobody was pressurising us, so there would have been no need to rush anyway.
		
Click to expand...

As I mentioned in an earlier post 'slow play' does not necessarily equate to 'slow round'.  Slow play drives lots of golfers (myself included) nuts and to some - I guess your PPs included - your insistance on holing out every hole was slow play - in that they saw it as quite unnecessary and just taking longer than was needed.  By their actions I suggest they were trying to chivvy you along by demonstrating that they were quite happy to play out of turn if that meant moving things along.

You need to look at it from the other players perspective and watch you don't get a reputation for being slow, fussy and pernickety - whether fair or not that can easily happen.


----------



## Scrindle (Jun 24, 2014)

As a high handicapper myself who tried to take improvement too seriously at the outset I would say that you should just concentrate on having a good time and not worrying about your score.  I found that once I just played for fun my scores dropped dramatically.

Consider this.  Everytime I have the 'round of my life' the very next round I play is always an absolute shocker.  I imagine it is because during the next round I have a self imposed expectation to play the same which causes me to tense up.  As soon as I ignore the good round I had I play better again.

Fun = relaxation = an easier swing = better scores.


----------



## sev112 (Jun 24, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			Afternoon,

It's been a while, but I've been playing some fairly decent golf by my standards and I feel my game is improving really well, becoming more confident.

Today me and my Dad played in a 4 ball with 2 relatives who play society golf, and religiously adopt the Stableford method.

I told them that I'm going to be holing out and completing my round in stroke play.  There was no danger in slow play as these 2 are zooming down the fairway in their buggies before I've even got my head cover on my driver.

Now I get Stableford, I understand the general premise and why people play it.  If your having a rubbish hole you can pick up your ball and it doesn't ruin your round, I get it.  But for me I don't think it gives an accurate report on how well you played hole on hole.

For example I could score a couple of 10s, and that would be 100% my fault, I mis hit a drive, hit in the water, get stuck in a bunker or 3 putt on the green.  Now under Stableford, those errors in my game that caused the 10 woudn't count, and I wouldn't have those errors to try and fix to improve my game.

They wouldn't have it and it kind of ruined my back 9 as I was flying on the front 9.  I play by percentages, heavily into my statistics, because I believe it gives me an accurate report and at a glance view on how my game is progressing.

Wondered what people thought about that.

Also, there seemed to be very little etiquette during the round, no honour was given to the person who scored better in the previous hole, balls were being hit as soon as that person got to their ball first, regardless of position, and at one point two balls were flying in the air on the green from different directions at the same time.

I came away thinking that I hadn't played a proper round.  They are in a golf society and are always asking me to come along, but I really don't think I want to.  Golf is an individual sport mainly, and I take it really seriously.  Have invested heavily in clubs and I don't want golf to be a social event for me.

Is this the state of golf? (sorry for the rant)
		
Click to expand...


I am still hugely confused by this thread

The OP has been telling all who disagree with him that they don't understand him, yet if you read the OP (above) it says nothing about his PPs giving him lectures on why he should play stableford while he was about to play.
No wonder we are all having such disagreements - we are all working on the basis of what the OP typed, whereas he is working on the basis of what actually happened, which are clearly 2 different things

Same thing happens between me and the mrs - she thinks she has told me something, but in fact told me something else, yet it's my fault for not knowing what she meant to say


----------



## Ethan (Jun 24, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			Now I get Stableford, I understand the general premise and why people play it.  If your having a rubbish hole you can pick up your ball and it doesn't ruin your round, I get it.  But for me I don't think it gives an accurate report on how well you played hole on hole.

For example I could score a couple of 10s, and that would be 100% my fault, I mis hit a drive, hit in the water, get stuck in a bunker or 3 putt on the green.  Now under Stableford, those errors in my game that caused the 10 woudn't count, and I wouldn't have those errors to try and fix to improve my game.
		
Click to expand...

In statistical terms, the issue is one of outliers. Is a round with 17 pars and a 10 a better or worse round than one with the same score composed of 12 pars and 6 bogeys? Who knows?, but the former score has a clear outlier, that is, an untypical and unrepresentative value. This happens in statistics all the time. Stableford puts a lid on the size of outliers. But the handicap system does too. You only get 0.1 back for 1 shot outside the buffer or for a score of 120. Matchplay does the same - a 3 beats a 4 to the same extent that a 3 beats a 9. Should we award 2 or 3 holes for the latter score?


----------



## williamalex1 (Jun 24, 2014)

I may be wrong but i thought the reason for Stableford comps was to save time , stop players scoring 9s 10s on their cards , and make it easier for high h/c players to compete against lower h/cs.
 If you don't like the format just don't enter that particular type of comp.:cheers:


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 24, 2014)

williamalex1 said:



			I may be wrong but i thought the reason for Stableford comps was to save time , stop players scoring 9s 10s on their cards , and make it easier for high h/c players to compete against lower h/cs.
 If you don't like the format just don't enter that particular type of comp.:cheers:
		
Click to expand...

I never pal. Ha ha.  I may add this into my signature. 

I have no problem with the method, and I had no problem with playing it in a sporting game yesterday.  I was just not happy with how I was told in a general sweeping statement that I had to learn how to play it because everyone in the UK plays it.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 24, 2014)

sev112 said:



			I am still hugely confused by this thread

The OP has been telling all who disagree with him that they don't understand him, yet if you read the OP (above) it says nothing about his PPs giving him lectures on why he should play stableford while he was about to play.
No wonder we are all having such disagreements - we are all working on the basis of what the OP typed, whereas he is working on the basis of what actually happened, which are clearly 2 different things

Same thing happens between me and the mrs - she thinks she has told me something, but in fact told me something else, yet it's my fault for not knowing what she meant to say 

Click to expand...

Yeah I know, I realised the confusion.  I probably shouldn't have raised the issue when I was a bit hot under the collar.


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 24, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			As I mentioned in an earlier post 'slow play' does not necessarily equate to 'slow round'.  Slow play drives lots of golfers (myself included) nuts and to some - I guess your PPs included - your insistance on holing out every hole was slow play - in that they saw it as quite unnecessary and just taking longer than was needed.  By their actions I suggest they were trying to chivvy you along by demonstrating that they were quite happy to play out of turn if that meant moving things along.

You need to look at it from the other players perspective and watch you don't get a reputation for being slow, fussy and pernickety - whether fair or not that can easily happen.
		
Click to expand...

I holed out only once because I was tracking my round score, not just Stableford.  It took less than 60 seconds.  Every other hole I more or less putted before anyone else, and actually ended up with a decent Stableford score.  

I wish I could edit my opening post, as I realise I have confused people.


----------



## chrisd (Jun 24, 2014)

Nick_Toye said:



			I realise I have confused people.
		
Click to expand...


You certainly managed that!


----------



## Nick_Toye (Jun 24, 2014)

chrisd said:



			You certainly managed that!
		
Click to expand...

I know.  Step away from the keyboard. ha ha.  I'm not really that bad a person.


----------

