# Geek Alert...Shaft Information Question



## GeneralStore (Oct 22, 2013)

Does anyone know how the following shafts compare:
Aldila RIP Alpha stiff shaft
Miyazaki JDL 5 stiff shaft
Miyazaki JDL 6 stiff shaft
Matrix Ozik 6M3 Black Tie 

in terms of stiffness and 'feel'. 

I have looked at the specs online, but they dont make much sense to me. 
The Aldila RIP Alpha feels way stiffer and heavier than the Miyazaki and the specs make the read almost the same

Thanks
GS


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## talksalot81 (Oct 23, 2013)

The black tie, I understand, is a particularly stiff shaft.


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## AmandaJR (Oct 23, 2013)

Not a clue, but Ethan on here seems to have a vast knowledge on shafts so if he doesn't see this post perhaps send him a PM.


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## Imurg (Oct 23, 2013)

The JDL's definitely launch higher than the Black Tie which is pretty low but not as stout as some say.
No experience of the RIP though.
All pretty good quality shafts though, if one of them works for you then use it..


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 23, 2013)

From personal experience the Matrix gives a higher ball flight for me than the Aldila


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## golfdub (Oct 23, 2013)

black tie has a low kick point i believe and is an awesome shaft


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## Ethan (Oct 23, 2013)

The short answer is they don't really compare. Black Tie is considerably stiffer in the bottom half than any of the others. The Miyazakis are softer in the tip than the RIP and the RIP is similar to something like a mix between Ahina and Kaili.

The longer answer is basically the same but with some geekish numbers. Miyazaki have developed a rating scale for shafts which rates flex in four quarters from butt to tip on a 1 - 10 scale, higher being stiffer. On that scale, RIP alpha in S flex is 4565. This basically means variations on medium stiffness in all zones. In contrast, Matrix 6M3 Black Tie is 5499, so it is as stiff as bejasus, to use the technical term, in the bottom half. The Miyazaki shafts both have the same flex ratings, 5543 but the lighter one has a bit more torque. 

I think these shafts are rather different from each other, particularly the Miyazaki vs Matrix, which are utterly different.

There are some of the International Flex Ratings in the Cleveland catalogue:

http://www.clevelandgolf.com/pdfs/2013-Custom-Catalog.pdf


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## jimbob.someroo (Oct 23, 2013)

Ethan said:



			There are some of the International Flex Ratings in the Cleveland catalogue:

http://www.clevelandgolf.com/pdfs/2013-Custom-Catalog.pdf

Click to expand...

This should be stickie'd for any future shaft questions! Properly useful!


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## CMAC (Oct 23, 2013)

jimbob.someroo said:



			This should be stickie'd for any future shaft questions! Properly useful!
		
Click to expand...

I'd agree, or put it in your FAVS as I have just done:thup:


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## garyinderry (Oct 23, 2013)

the only answer is to try and see what you like.


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## Imurg (Oct 23, 2013)

jimbob.someroo said:



			This should be stickie'd for any future shaft questions! Properly useful!
		
Click to expand...

Kind of....

Look at the Prolaunch Blue and Red in regular.
Blue is a High launch, red is a mid

Blue is 3651
Red is 3641

Hardly a difference in weight and torque either but quite different shafts....


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## Ethan (Oct 23, 2013)

Imurg said:



			Kind of....

Look at the Prolaunch Blue and Red in regular.
Blue is a High launch, red is a mid

Blue is 3651
Red is 3641

Hardly a difference in weight and torque either but quite different shafts....
		
Click to expand...

True, but the difference gets larger with S and even more with X.


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## Imurg (Oct 23, 2013)

Absolutely but it's useful to know that just because the numbers are very similar it doesn't always mean the shaft is similar too...

Good info though.


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## GeneralStore (Oct 23, 2013)

Thanks for the help everyone. That pdf is very useful Ethan, thanks.


I hit a Cleveland Custom XL yesterday with a Miyazaki JDL and I honestly thought it was going to snap in 2. Ridiculously light and flexible. I stupidly didn't check whether it was a 5 or 6, as I didn't know there were different numbers, just flexes. Now I know. So maybe it was the 5 and that's why it was so flimsy, because judging by these numbers the JDL 6 in stiff should be similar to my current Aldila RIP.

I haven't hit the Ozik Black Tie, but if its stiffer and heaver than the Pro Force V2 65 it probably won't be for me. When I chose the Aldila RIP the V2 65 felt the best, and I felt I could really let loose with it, because it was so stable. The RIP promoted a smoother swing for me and gave the best stats on the launch monitor, so went with that in the end. Interestingly, they look almost identical on that pdf chart, but they definitely feel quite different.

These are all the options with the Cleveland Custom XL driver so I am checking before I go and book a custom fit, it won't be worth it if there aren't any suitable shafts.


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## Imurg (Oct 23, 2013)

Don't shy away from the Black Tie until you've tried it.

According to every fitting I've ever been to a stiff tip shaft like the BT shouldn't work for me at all but I'm hitting a Driver better than almost ever with it at the moment....


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## GeneralStore (Oct 23, 2013)

Cheers Imurg, if you don't mind me asking, what is your driver swing speed?


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## Imurg (Oct 23, 2013)

Somewhere around 95-100 ish.......not faster..


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## GeneralStore (Oct 23, 2013)

Thanks, will give the Black Tie a go if I can find somewhere to try it out


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## rickg (May 24, 2014)

Just spotted this thread when I was researching the shaft I'm getting in my SLDR.......very interesting reading as I was fitted for the  Matrix Black Tie 6M3 in stiff......by far gave the best results of all the others, and similar to Imurg I haven't  got a particularly fast swing speed ( recorded at around 101-104mph during the test).

The final shaft and head combination (12* set at 11.75*) saw my spin come down from over 3000 to 1965 rpm.....it felt really stable and my dispersion was very good. 
Carry was up from 225 to 240 and total distance from 256 to 273.......can't wait for the postman to arrive!!


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## Maninblack4612 (May 24, 2014)

rickg said:



			Just spotted this thread when I was researching the shaft I'm getting in my SLDR.......very interesting reading as I was fitted for the  Matrix Black Tie 6M3 in stiff......by far gave the best results of all the others, and similar to Imurg I haven't  got a particularly fast swing speed ( recorded at around 101-104mph during the test).

The final shaft and head combination (12* set at 11.75*) saw my spin come down from over 3000 to 1965 rpm.....it felt really stable and my dispersion was very good. 
Carry was up from 225 to 240 and total distance from 256 to 273.......can't wait for the postman to arrive!!
		
Click to expand...

I've just seen this thread too. The Black Tie is an awesome shaft, it gave me 10 to 15 yards & less backspin compared to the stock shaft. You've made a good choice.


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## rickg (May 24, 2014)

Maninblack4612 said:



			I've just seen this thread too. The Black Tie is an awesome shaft, it gave me 10 to 15 yards & less backspin compared to the stock shaft. You've made a good choice.
		
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Good stuff MIB , the more more I look into this shaft, the more exited I'm getting......have you played about with you settings since you got the SLDR?


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## fundy (May 24, 2014)

rickg said:



			Just spotted this thread when I was researching the shaft I'm getting in my SLDR.......very interesting reading as I was fitted for the  Matrix Black Tie 6M3 in stiff......by far gave the best results of all the others, and similar to Imurg I haven't  got a particularly fast swing speed ( recorded at around 101-104mph during the test).

The final shaft and head combination (12* set at 11.75*) saw my spin come down from over 3000 to 1965 rpm.....it felt really stable and my dispersion was very good. 
Carry was up from 225 to 240 and total distance from 256 to 273.......can't wait for the postman to arrive!!
		
Click to expand...

I was fitted for the Black Tie 6M3 too, in X flex, looking forward to getting my hands on it this week!


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## rickg (May 24, 2014)

fundy said:



			I was fitted for the Black Tie 6M3 too, in X flex, looking forward to getting my hands on it this week!
		
Click to expand...

Nip down to Wentworth and nick the one from Justin Rose


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## fundy (May 24, 2014)

rickg said:



			Nip down to Wentworth and nick the one from Justin Rose 

Click to expand...

lol, yeah that would work


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## Maninblack4612 (May 25, 2014)

rickg said:



			Good stuff MIB , the more more I look into this shaft, the more exited I'm getting......have you played about with you settings since you got the SLDR?
		
Click to expand...

Bought the 10.5 & have cranked it all the way up to 12.0. The black tie tames the high launch a bit but reduces the spin dramatically. The ball just hangs in the air, lovely soaring flight. Glad I didn't buy the 9.0, I would have been in trouble.


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## Maninblack4612 (May 25, 2014)

Looking at.  http://www.clevelandgolf.com/pdfs/2013-Custom-Catalog.pdf is very interesting. I previously had a Miyazaki B Asha 4, allegedly stiff, but I couldn't stop hooking with it. The bend profile, compared with the regular Black Tie is as follows:

Black tie.   3389
Miyazaki.  6732

The first figure refers to the butt end & the last the tip. This shows that the Black tie is very tip stiff but a lot more flexible overall. I think this allows for more consistency for anyone who can't swing a stiff shaft hard enough. Same principle as the Nunchuck shaft & Tom Wishon's latest offering which have very stiff tip & butt sections and are very flexible in the middle.

I love Matrix shafts & now I think I understand why.


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## Ethan (May 25, 2014)

If you like Matrix shafts and shafts that are solid in the butt and tip but flexible in the middle, the Code 6 from a few years back is worth a look. I kept my old 909D3 with Code 6, great shaft.


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