# Envy or jealousy ?



## User101 (Jul 5, 2018)

Here's one to chew over, being Scottish it's pretty bloody depressing watching the world cup knowing we're not there....as usual and that we're unlikely to be any time soon. However, it's almost as difficult suffering Engurlands progress as it's just hard to listen to but here's a thing, I'm not jealous, I'm envious, personally couldn't bare you lot to win it but I really do wish I could share the feeling of euphoria and atmosphere that comes over a nation through sport. 

Guess the closest we've got in recent years was the Golden Saturday at the Olympics in 2012 

Come on Sweden !


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## adam6177 (Jul 5, 2018)

No hard feelings from my point of view. Rivalry is rivalry and I don't hold that against anyone... I've never classed myself as British, I'm English through and through and that's why I understand your thought process.

Ps I'm glad that Scottish fella is out of Wimbledon this year. I've never liked him. &#128077;


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## HowlingGale (Jul 5, 2018)

Completely gutted we're not there. However saying that if we were there we'd have had a complete doing off every one of those teams, including the Saudis.

I'm not envious or Jealous although I have no idea why nations like Uruguay, Denmark, and Croatia can churn out players capable of holding their own and more, yet we can't, despite similar or smaller populations. I guess the desire to succeed in this country just isn't there. 

A whole other thread should be devoted to the subject but there's political, social and economic reasons that really need to be addressed at government level before we'll qualify for anything again. In my opinion, of course.


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## User62651 (Jul 5, 2018)

I'm enjoying the world cup, not lessened for me, watching Scotland at world cups in 70s 80s 90s was never that enjoyable, more lows than highs tbh. Watched the Colombia game with my English Mrs and her English friend and daughter, was quite enjoyable seeing them stress, I'm entirely neutral, glad the Germans went out but that's it. Have a bit of a soft spot for Croatia as I admire Modric, would quite like to see a new winner.


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## HowlingGale (Jul 5, 2018)

Should have qualified my post by saying for me it's been the best World Cup I can remember. Really exciting.

I'll also not be supporting our neighbours. I'm just a fan of Football these days rather than a stressed out football fan.


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## Don Barzini (Jul 5, 2018)

Iâ€™ve never understood the hatred of England by Scottish people tbh. Maybe some of you guys can explain it to me?

Why hate England so much? 

Why must it it always be â€œanyone but Englandâ€?


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## HowlingGale (Jul 5, 2018)

Don Barzini said:



			Iâ€™ve never understood the hatred of England by Scottish people tbh. Maybe some of you guys can explain it to me?

Why hate England so much? 

Why must it it always be â€œanyone but Englandâ€?
		
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To counter that there's been 'I hate the germans' and 'I hate the argies' on the world cup thread. Nobody's asked them why.


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## KenL (Jul 5, 2018)

The insistence of some Scots to detest England is small-minded or pathetic.

Come on England .

BTW - I'm from Scotland.


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## Don Barzini (Jul 5, 2018)

HowlingGale said:



			To counter that there's been 'I hate the germans' and 'I hate the argies' on the world cup thread. Nobody's asked them why.
		
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Ask them if you want, Iâ€™m not stopping you or suggesting that you shouldnâ€™t. 

This is a thread about Scottish dislike of England. Iâ€™m genuinely interested in the reasons why, hence why I asked the question.


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## User62651 (Jul 5, 2018)

Don Barzini said:



			Ask them if you want, Iâ€™m not stopping you or suggesting that you shouldnâ€™t. 

This is a thread about Scottish dislike of England. Iâ€™m genuinely interested in the reasons why, hence why I asked the question.
		
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Dont mix up a historic football rivalty that these days is not even that, with dislike of a people or a country or politics. There is very little imo but there is strong anti Tory feeling which can get mixed up as anti English since MaggieT. From comments all over this forum I think dislike is stronger in the other direction tbh largely because of the indyref and SNP and political issues that gets spun down south in certain media.


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## Beezerk (Jul 5, 2018)

Don Barzini said:



			Iâ€™ve never understood the hatred of England by Scottish people tbh. Maybe some of you guys can explain it to me?

Why hate England so much? 

Why must it it always be â€œanyone but Englandâ€?
		
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One of my customers explained it quite well. He said from an early age you're brought up to hate England, but in a joking kind of way. Take the pash but shake hands afterwards. Saying that I've been on the wrong end some nasty anti English rants over the years, mainly from drunken bigots.


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## User101 (Jul 5, 2018)

Don Barzini said:



			This is a thread about Scottish dislike of England. .
		
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No it's not.

But I'll try and explain, lets say you were a Man City fan in the late 80s and all thru the 90s. You had to listen to how good Man U were, always winning things, everyone talking about them, headlines of the news, headlines of every paper, radio station, no matter what channel you turned on, it was about man U, and you were a City fan, that I think explains how it is for us. 


I'm envious, not hatred, I wish it was me singing "it's coming home" I wish it was me heading to the pub on Saturday on a natural high, I wish it was my nation flying.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 5, 2018)

Cabby said:



			I'm envious, not hatred, I wish it was me singing "it's coming home" I wish it was me heading to the pub on Saturday on a natural high, I wish it was my nation flying.
		
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I think that's a very honest post and probably covers it for a lot of people.

It's a shame that often, not accusing you on this, it does not come across as envy or banter but a little more than that.


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## Beezerk (Jul 5, 2018)

Cabby said:



			I'm envious, not hatred, I wish it was me singing "it's coming home" I wish it was me heading to the pub on Saturday on a natural high, I wish it was my nation flying.
		
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Did I mention I'm going to the pub on Saturday afternoon to get lashed while watching the match? 
Hopefully afterwards there'll be a chorus of "It's Coming Home" as well  probably followed by "I'm Going To Bed" :whoo:


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## User101 (Jul 5, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			Did I mention I'm going to the pub on Saturday afternoon to get lashed while watching the match? 
Hopefully afterwards there'll be a chorus of "It's Coming Home" as well  probably followed by "I'm Going To Bed" :whoo:
		
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I genuinely think there is only one team left that you guys can't beat, and if they get put out, it could well be coming home.


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## patricks148 (Jul 5, 2018)

Don Barzini said:



			Iâ€™ve never understood the hatred of England by Scottish people tbh. Maybe some of you guys can explain it to me?

Why hate England so much? 

Why must it it always be â€œanyone but Englandâ€?
		
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would you question why the Irish had the English?


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## HowlingGale (Jul 5, 2018)

Cabby said:



			No it's not.

But I'll try and explain, lets say you were a Man City fan in the late 80s and all thru the 90s. You had to listen to how good Man U were, always winning things, everyone talking about them, headlines of the news, headlines of every paper, radio station, no matter what channel you turned on, it was about man U, and you were a City fan, that I think explains how it is for us. 


I'm envious, not hatred, I wish it was me singing "it's coming home" I wish it was me heading to the pub on Saturday on a natural high, I wish it was my nation flying.
		
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Add to that the utterly biased commentary from the EBC, sorry the BBC, then you've got it right. i.e.Ignoring blatant cheating and unwarranted self-aggrandisment.

BTW I don't hate the English or the England team. I just want them to get pumped at everything they play because of the blinkered media output.

Imagine you turn on to watch a game of football, Iran Vs Peru (or whoever) in the group stages of the world cup. The English team are nowhere near it. You can actually play a game of 'phrase' bingo using the following phrases: '1966', Geoff Hurst' , 'It's coming home', 'Three Lions', 'Harry Kane' it's non-exhaustive. You get the gist.

Remember we get the same commentary you do and it gets right on our tits. Just say what you see without bringing anything England has done, is doing or may do into it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 5, 2018)

patricks148 said:



			would you question why the Irish had the English?
		
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How far back in history do you want to keep going? Do you always want to look back or should you start looking forward? Looking forward is far more healthy.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 5, 2018)

Itâ€™s part of your psyche, no different to the football teams down here at Club level.

Very few will have a genuine reason for it, most simply go along just because they believe they should and then they tar everyone with the same brush.

I prefer the honest straightforward bigot to the ones that try and make jokes and excuses when talking to you.
At least you know were you stand with the bigot.


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## MarkE (Jul 5, 2018)

HowlingGale said:



			Add to that the utterly biased commentary from the EBC, sorry the BBC, then you've got it right. i.e.Ignoring blatant cheating and unwarranted self-aggrandisment.

BTW I don't hate the English or the England team. I just want them to get pumped at everything they play because of the blinkered media output.

Imagine you turn on to watch a game of football, Iran Vs Peru (or whoever) in the group stages of the world cup. The English team are nowhere near it. You can actually play a game of 'phrase' bingo using the following phrases: '1966', Geoff Hurst' , 'It's coming home', 'Three Lions', 'Harry Kane' it's non-exhaustive. You get the gist.

Remember we get the same commentary you do and it gets right on our tits. Just say what you see without bringing anything England has done, is doing or may do into it.
		
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In other words. You're jealous. Listen to the commentary on the radio if the bbc bothers you that much. England are just better than the scots at football so they'll always get more coverage.


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## MarkE (Jul 5, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How far back in history do you want to keep going? Do you always want to look back or should you start looking forward? Looking forward is far more healthy.
		
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The Scots can't let it drop. Anti English is in their psych. God if England held a grudge against every country we'd had a skirmish with over the years we would'nt talk to anyone.


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## Beezerk (Jul 5, 2018)

Cabby said:



			I genuinely think there is only one team left that you guys can't beat, and if they get put out, it could well be coming home.
		
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Iâ€™m not as confident mate, I donâ€™t fancy anyone in the other side of the draw, Brazil would crush us and France looked great in the last game. Semis, Iâ€™d be over the moon, final, Iâ€™d be in dream land.


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## User101 (Jul 5, 2018)

MarkE said:



			The Scots can't let it drop. Anti English is in their psych. God if England held a grudge against every country we'd had a skirmish with over the years we would'nt talk to anyone.
		
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I think you may be overlooking the point that England as a nation are not very popular ......anywhere, you may not have realised it but I'm afraid to say it's factual.


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## User101 (Jul 5, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			Iâ€™m not as confident mate, I donâ€™t fancy anyone in the other side of the draw, Brazil would crush us and France looked great in the last game. Semis, Iâ€™d be over the moon, final, Iâ€™d be in dream land.
		
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I'm not for a second saying you are better than any of them, I'm just saying you can get through, I personally don't think your team is particularly good but who needs to be good to progress, you just need to progress, if Brazil go out, you can take anyone to PK's.


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## HowlingGale (Jul 5, 2018)

MarkE said:



			In other words. You're jealous. Listen to the commentary on the radio if the bbc bothers you that much. England are just better than the scots at football so they'll always get more coverage.
		
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Would you care to provide the radio stations I can listen to that doesn't have biased commentary? All of our World Cup feeds come out of London. Radio and TV.

Not bothered about England getting coverage. Just don't mention them when they're not playing. 

You obviously don't get the problem f you're saying change the channel. I shouldn't need to as BBC and ITV are meant to be providing for countries other than England.


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## MarkE (Jul 5, 2018)

Cabby said:



			I think you may be overlooking the point that England as a nation are not very popular ......anywhere, you may not have realised it but I'm afraid to say it's factual.
		
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I agree. It's not just the Scots. That's what I don't get, the English are in general fairly ambivalent towards other countries.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 5, 2018)

Sorry but why should the Scottish â€œsupportâ€ the English teams? And what the heck is wrong with them supporting the opponent! 

Blimey even bigots bring brought into it 

You only have to read posts on this forum or indeed any football forum to see why non English will support the opposition and it comes down to pure arrogance and the feeling of some false superiority. Itâ€™s even enough for some English to want to have nothing to do with the England football team - people try and align it to some sort of patriotism and demand that all English support the National football team and even expect other UK nationals to get behind them - pure arrogance that you just see with the England football team. 

Having the National rivalries with Scotland, Wales , N Ireland and Ireland are superb and wish they brought back the Home Nations Comp instead of meaningless friendlies


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## User101 (Jul 5, 2018)

MarkE said:



			. That's what I don't get,
		
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You and most of your nation I'm sorry to say, it's historical I suppose.


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## MarkE (Jul 5, 2018)

HowlingGale said:



			Would you care to provide the radio stations I can listen to that doesn't have biased commentary? All of our World Cup feeds come out of London. Radio and TV.

Not bothered about England getting coverage. Just don't mention them when they're not playing. 

You obviously don't get the problem f you're saying change the channel. I shouldn't need to as BBC and ITV are meant to be providing for countries other than England.
		
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You mean there are no local stations doing commentary? I often listen to commentary on radio if Mark Lawrenson is on the Telly. Of course the BBC caters for Scotland. If Scotland had won a word cup or Euro championship it would be mentioned as much as an England success. The BBC go on about Brazil but i'm sure that dos'nt concern you as long as its not the English.


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## HowlingGale (Jul 5, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			Iâ€™m not as confident mate, I donâ€™t fancy anyone in the other side of the draw, Brazil would crush us and France looked great in the last game. Semis, Iâ€™d be over the moon, final, Iâ€™d be in dream land.
		
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I do think the winner will come out of the Brazil half of the draw as they'll be getting stronger with each passing game.

I think a Brazil-France final would have been the icing on the cake for this world cup.


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## MarkE (Jul 5, 2018)

Cabby said:



			You and most of your nation I'm sorry to say, it's historical I suppose.
		
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You see, you can't help yourself, any chance of a sly aside against the English. Get over it.


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## User101 (Jul 5, 2018)

MarkE said:



			You see, you can't help yourself, any chance of a sly aside against the English. Get over it.
		
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Not about getting over anything, your obviously blinkered outlook fails to see that England as a nation are not very popular, sorry to be the barer of bad news, but you need to get "over it"


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## HowlingGale (Jul 5, 2018)

MarkE said:



			You mean there are no local stations doing commentary? I often listen to commentary on radio if Mark Lawrenson is on the Telly. Of course the BBC caters for Scotland. If Scotland had won a word cup or Euro championship it would be mentioned as much as an England success. The BBC go on about Brazil but i'm sure that dos'nt concern you as long as its not the English.
		
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I'm not sure how many ways I can say it to make it clearer. All of our feeds come from England. There are no local stations running commentary.

You're saying in a game between Iran and Peru it's OK to mention England's triumph in the dim and distant past 20 times in the first 10 mins?

If you think that's acceptable then crack on and we'll continue to want England to get beaten as it becomes very boring hearing how good you were 52 years ago.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 5, 2018)

Why take out your frustrations on the guy in the street though? 
I actually agree with your point about the media, problem is, you take out your frustration on those with no control over it and have no idea how to answer the question.


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## Beezerk (Jul 5, 2018)

HowlingGale said:



			I do think the winner will come out of the Brazil half of the draw as they'll be getting stronger with each passing game.

I think a Brazil-France final would have been the icing on the cake for this world cup.
		
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Yeah definitely, instead itâ€™s going to be Belgium v England. There I said it ðŸ˜


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## HowlingGale (Jul 5, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			Yeah definitely, instead itâ€™s going to be Belgium v England. There I said it ðŸ˜
		
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ðŸ˜Ž That might be a quality match too.


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## KenL (Jul 5, 2018)

Cabby said:



			I think you may be overlooking the point that England as a nation are not very popular ......anywhere, you may not have realised it but I'm afraid to say it's factual.
		
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Evidence?


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## Beezerk (Jul 5, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Why take out your frustrations on the guy in the street though? 
I actually agree with your point about the media, problem is, you take out your frustration on those with no control over it and have no idea how to answer the question.
		
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I had the exact same conversation with a lad at Forest Pines the other week mate. He couldnâ€™t grasp that 99% of the English population agree with him that the media are way over the top when it comes to Ingerlaaand.


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## User101 (Jul 5, 2018)

KenL said:



			Evidence?
		
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Have you been abroad when locals have found out your not English ? If so, how did they respond once they found out you weren't English ?? 


btw, I didn't start this as an England bashing topic, as I have previously stated.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 5, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			I had the exact same conversation with a lad at Forest Pines the other week mate. He couldnâ€™t grasp that 99% of the English population agree with him that the media are way over the top when it comes to Ingerlaaand.
		
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Wasting your breath, itâ€™s a fact if the media say so, currently weâ€™re all sat in our England strips preparing for the open top bus tour when we win the WC singing vindaloo


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 5, 2018)

Cabby said:



			Have you been abroad when locals have found out your not English ? If so, how did they respond once they found out you weren't English ?? 


btw, I didn't start this as an England bashing topic, as I have previously stated.
		
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Some only read the poster and not the post


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## User101 (Jul 5, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Some only read the poster and not the post 

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I am very well aware of that, this isn't the first forum I've been on you know


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 5, 2018)

Cabby said:



			Have you been abroad when locals have found out your not English ? If so, how did they respond once they found out you weren't English ?? 


btw, I didn't start this as an England bashing topic, as I have previously stated.
		
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Let me challenge this a little. I've never had anyone be unpleasant to me when abroad because I'm English, never. I've been away on holiday or with work quite a bit and no one has ever been even remotely nasty because of my nationality. Perhaps if I was wearing an England football shirt and giving it large, as the youth say, it would be different but I'd don't go anywhere trying to own a place, I'm respectful.

I chat to people here, I chat to people abroad. Smile at them, be friendly, that's enough to get a smile back and a friendly conversation.

What situations have you been in that have been hostile until you told them you were Scottish?


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## User101 (Jul 5, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What situations have you been in that have been hostile until you told them you were Scottish?
		
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None. Wasn't my point though. I think the very fact that you are questioning it goes a long way to explaining the blinkered view of your nation. I can't right now give specific examples of why England as a nation are not particularly well thought of but even you must be aware that you have a lot of enemies.


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## Hobbit (Jul 5, 2018)

Iâ€™ve visited most of Europe, and some countries beyond. I like to get off the tourist trails and see the real country. Pretty much every country has been very welcoming. Thereâ€™s always the odd person that doesnâ€™t like you, especially if you donâ€™t speak their language. But if you do have a crack at the language they love you for it.

â€Anyone but England.â€ Nowt wrong with rivalry. But if it was Scotland or Wales there, Iâ€™d be supporting them.


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## Beezerk (Jul 5, 2018)

Mods, can this thread be renamed â€œthe anti English threadâ€?


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 5, 2018)

MarkE said:



			I agree. It's not just the Scots. That's what I don't get, the English are in general fairly ambivalent towards other countries.
		
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Maybe in general English people are, but are Ingurland fans?

Anti-Irish songs, 10 German bombers???


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## KenL (Jul 5, 2018)

Cabby said:



			Have you been abroad when locals have found out your not English ? If so, how did they respond once they found out you weren't English ?? 


btw, I didn't start this as an England bashing topic, as I have previously stated.
		
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No, that's never happened.  I think British people are well liked if they are nice people.

I am under no illusion that Scottish people are loved the world over.  I have been embarrassed many times by the behaviour of people from my part of the UK.


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## Beezerk (Jul 5, 2018)

Liverbirdie said:



			Maybe in general English people are, but are Ingurland fans?

Anti-Irish songs, 10 German bombers???
		
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Thereâ€™s knobs within every nationality mate, bit of a broad brush to paint there.


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## Don Barzini (Jul 5, 2018)

HowlingGale said:



			Imagine you turn on to watch a game of football, Iran Vs Peru (or whoever) in the group stages of the world cup. The English team are nowhere near it. You can actually play a game of 'phrase' bingo using the following phrases: '1966', Geoff Hurst' , 'It's coming home', 'Three Lions', 'Harry Kane' it's non-exhaustive. You get the gist.

Remember we get the same commentary you do and it gets right on our tits. Just say what you see without bringing anything England has done, is doing or may do into it.
		
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Yeah Iâ€™ve heard this sort of argument from Scottish people before and I really do think this is a massive exaggeration of the reality of how things are and an excuse for anti-English feeling. Iâ€™ve watched plenty of coverage of World Cup games which donâ€™t feature England and itâ€™s nothing like the way you are portraying it. They talk about the teams that are playing, what theyâ€™ve done in previous games, who their best players are etc etc. They even (shock horror) have non-English pundits on to add their viewpoint to proceedings. 

Yes, some of the coverage is interspersed with a plug for when the next England game is coming up, or a report about the latest England news. But do you reckon they might put that in because thereâ€™s a large number of English supporters watching the coverage? Goodness, how awful of them! How dare they tailor their coverage a bit towards their main audience! And do you honestly believe there wouldnâ€™t also be the equivalent plugs/reports for the Scotland and Wales teams if they were there too?

I would bet if you watched any other nationâ€™s home coverage of the World Cup, youâ€™d find they did things similarly - covered all games, but interspersed it with news and chat about the home nation. Yet because British television does it for the England team, itâ€™s somehow unacceptable to Scottish people.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 5, 2018)

Cabby said:



			None. Wasn't my point though. I think the very fact that you are questioning it goes a long way to explaining the blinkered view of your nation. I can't right now give specific examples of why England as a nation are not particularly well thought of but even you must be aware that you have a lot of enemies.
		
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Politically quite probably but regular people, no I have not come across that or seen it affect others. I think that is over egged. Regular people are generally decent wherever you are, wherever you come from. Be nice to them, they are nice back. Most people live in the present and are not hung up on history.

Clearly I could turn my back and they could be pulling faces but people must be very discreet about that.


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## User101 (Jul 5, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Politically quite probably but regular people, no I have not come across that or seen it affect others. I think that is over egged. Regular people are generally decent wherever you are, wherever you come from. Be nice to them, they are nice back. Most people live in the present and are not hung up on history.

Clearly I could turn my back and they could be pulling faces but people must be very discreet about that.
		
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Absolutely, I never said at any time in this topic English, I said England, I made no reference to individuals, I have a lot a good English friends, I even have English family.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 5, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			Thereâ€™s knobs within every nationality mate, bit of a broad brush to paint there.
		
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Heres a thing, dont call me mate. :thup:


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## HowlingGale (Jul 5, 2018)

Don Barzini said:



			Yeah Iâ€™ve heard this sort of argument from Scottish people before and I really do think this is a massive exaggeration of the reality of how things are and an excuse for anti-English feeling. Iâ€™ve watched plenty of coverage of World Cup games which donâ€™t feature England and itâ€™s nothing like the way you are portraying it. They talk about the teams that are playing, what theyâ€™ve done in previous games, who their best players are etc etc. They even (shock horror) have non-English pundits on to add their viewpoint to proceedings. 

Yes, some of the coverage is interspersed with a plug for when the next England game is coming up, or a report about the latest England news. But do you reckon they might put that in because thereâ€™s a large number of English supporters watching the coverage? Goodness, how awful of them! How dare they tailor their coverage a bit towards their main audience! And do you honestly believe there wouldnâ€™t also be the equivalent plugs/reports for the Scotland and Wales teams if they were there too?

I would bet if you watched any other nationâ€™s home coverage of the World Cup, youâ€™d find they did things similarly - covered all games, but interspersed it with news and chat about the home nation. Yet because British television does it for the England team, itâ€™s somehow unacceptable to Scottish people.
		
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Absolutely sure that other countries talk about their nation when the world cup is on while they're not playing but how many Italian people are limited to French only channels covering the world cup?

I'll tell you, none.

I don't want to hear about England's world cup win if they're not playing. What is so hard to understand?


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## HowlingGale (Jul 5, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Wasting your breath, itâ€™s a fact if the media say so, currently weâ€™re all sat in our England strips preparing for the open top bus tour when we win the WC singing vindaloo 

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I'd hoped that you'd all be in you England clobber. It's just passion. I'd be the same if we were there.

I have no issues with all the fans celebrating after the win the other night.

I think all the remaining teams feel upbeat and genuinely think they can win it.


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## Don Barzini (Jul 5, 2018)

HowlingGale said:



			Absolutely sure that other countries talk about their nation when the world cup is on while they're not playing but how many Italian people are limited to French only channels covering the world cup?

I'll tell you, none.

I don't want to hear about England's world cup win if they're not playing. What is so hard to understand?
		
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But Italy and France are not linked geographically, politically, historically and televisually in the same way Scotland and England are, so you canâ€™t really make a like for like comparison. 

But if demand was big enough from your fellow countrymen and women, there would be absolutely nothing to stop a Scottish company making a Scottish television channel with Scottish presenters who make no mention of England whatsoever. And who, I have no doubt, would exercise the impartiality you demand of English presenters.


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## Beezerk (Jul 5, 2018)

Liverbirdie said:



			Heres a thing, dont call me mate. :thup:
		
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Hmmm, options


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 5, 2018)

HowlingGale said:



			I'd hoped that you'd all be in you England clobber. It's just passion. I'd be the same if we were there.

I have no issues with all the fans celebrating after the win the other night.

I think all the remaining teams feel upbeat and genuinely think they can win it.
		
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All 8 have a chance and any of the 8 could be beat over the next few days.
Taking my allegiance out of it for minute, itâ€™s been one of the most open World Cups in a long long time.
Putting my allegiance back in, itâ€™s nice to still be involved. :thup:


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## MarkE (Jul 5, 2018)

Cabby said:



			Not about getting over anything, your obviously blinkered outlook fails to see that England as a nation are not very popular, sorry to be the barer of bad news, but you need to get "over it" 

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I don't need to get over anything, I have no issue with other nations. Unlike you who seem to hate the English.


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## KenL (Jul 5, 2018)

I am from Scotland but I will 100% be supporting England on Saturday.  Exactly as I would be behind Wales or Northern Ireland.

I'd also be behind the USA as I lived there for a time and Portugal where I go on holiday.


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## HowlingGale (Jul 5, 2018)

Don Barzini said:



			But Italy and France are not linked geographically, politically, historically and televisually in the same way Scotland and England are, so you canâ€™t really make a like for like comparison. 

But if demand was big enough from your fellow countrymen and women, there would be absolutely nothing to stop a Scottish company making a Scottish television channel with Scottish presenters who make no mention of England whatsoever. And who, I have no doubt, would exercise the impartiality you demand of English presenters.
		
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Italy and France have a border (linked geographically),  they're in the EU (linked politically), they've fought for hunners of years (linked historically). 

For info I used France and Italy as an example of one team still in and one team that didn't qualify.

I suppose our local stations could try and get their own commentary or ITV and BBC could just provide impartial unbiased commentary.


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## HowlingGale (Jul 5, 2018)

Don Barzini said:



			But Italy and France are not linked geographically, politically, historically and televisually in the same way Scotland and England are, so you canâ€™t really make a like for like comparison. 

But if demand was big enough from your fellow countrymen and women, there would be absolutely nothing to stop a Scottish company making a Scottish television channel with Scottish presenters who make no mention of England whatsoever. And who, I have no doubt, would exercise the impartiality you demand of English presenters.
		
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Oh and on the televisual thing my mate gets French Sky so I'm fairly sure the punters in Italy will get that as well.


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## Don Barzini (Jul 5, 2018)

HowlingGale said:



			I suppose our local stations could try and get their own commentary or ITV and BBC could just provide impartial unbiased commentary.
		
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Which they do. They just also have an interest in the only home nation to have qualified. And as Iâ€™ve said, theyâ€™d extend that interest to other home nations if theyâ€™d qualified as well.


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## Dasit (Jul 6, 2018)

I support Mcilroy over English golfers
I support Murray over English Tennis players
I follow Bale and like seeing him doing well in Spain


Would always support their football teams over any others, sure would be the same for most English people I know.


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## rudebhoy (Jul 6, 2018)

I've lived in England for 30 years. My missus is English. 95% of my mates are English. My kids are England supporters. Most of the music I love was made by Englishmen

I certainly don't hate the English. 

I do however get wound up by the superiority complex some English folk have, particularly when it comes to sport. I also dislike the unbridled "patriotism" which has a distasteful veneer of casual racism which seems to grip people during major events, be it the WC or the Brexit vote. This is all orchestrated by the right-wing press, and folk fall for it every time. 

I have noticed an increase in "sweaty sock" and "Jimmy Krankie" comments whenever these events come round, so let's not pretend it's all a one way street.

I do support British folk in individual events, be they Scottish, NI, Welsh or English. I just can't bring myself to support an "England" team.

Maybe the best solution would be to have a British international football side, but I dare say there would be a massive backlash against that idea if it ever gained any traction.


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## Fish (Jul 6, 2018)

Just build a wall and be done with it.....


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 6, 2018)

Cabby said:



			Absolutely, I never said at any time in this topic English, I said England, I made no reference to individuals, I have a lot a good English friends, I even have English family.
		
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Okay. Hostility towards England as a country is still not something I have come across. When I visit my customers in Europe they never, ever, refer to England, Scotland, Wales etc as separate entities. They only see Britain, once in a blue moon they will state UK. 

Even then no problems. You must go to some ropey areas &#128513;.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 6, 2018)

On a happier note the next world cup, I think, will have 48 teams in it. Hopefully Scotland will then qualify and Scots can enjoy their own team being there.


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## User101 (Jul 6, 2018)

.....however briefly.


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## Slab (Jul 6, 2018)

I get a feeling and itâ€™s just a feeling, that as Scots the default weâ€™re expected to take by many in England is why not support England, unless you have a reason not to
When itâ€™s actually the opposite, donâ€™t support England unless you have a reason to, be that family, location or whatever
Some of us do take it further by supporting whoever is playing England but you have the English media and history to thank for that 

Just thinking, given the close history England should support Australia in the rugby world cup once England are out, Iâ€™ll bet only those with a good reason to would though and were the Dutch all weeping along with Germany fans a week ago? Iâ€™ll wager the majority were not

Unless a person has a personal reason/connection to support another nation (even a neighbouring country) why would they?

I've nothing against any English person (I'm married to one) its supporting England as a 'product' (for want of a better word) that sticks in the craw


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## drdel (Jul 6, 2018)

HowlingGale said:



			I'm not sure how many ways I can say it to make it clearer.* All of our feeds come from England.* There are no local stations running commentary.

You're saying in a game between Iran and Peru it's OK to mention England's triumph in the dim and distant past 20 times in the first 10 mins?

If you think that's acceptable then crack on and we'll continue to want England to get beaten as it becomes very boring hearing how good you were 52 years ago.
		
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The media (like all businesses) is a numbers game. The population of Scotland is about the same as Manchester so 'local' radio etc. is all that's affordable/justifiable.

I'm afraid the Scottish 'chip on the shoulder' just gets a bit boring. Childish anti-England behaviour, as witnessed by the SNMP in Parliament this week shows that childish antics aren't limited to children


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 6, 2018)

Slab said:



			I get a feeling and itâ€™s just a feeling, that as Scots the default weâ€™re expected to take by many in England is why not support England, unless you have a reason not to
When itâ€™s actually the opposite, donâ€™t support England unless you have a reason to, be that family, location or whatever
Some of us do take it further by supporting whoever is playing England but you have the English media and history to thank for that 

Just thinking, given the close history England should support Australia in the rugby world cup once England are out, Iâ€™ll bet only those with a good reason to would though and were the Dutch all weeping along with Germany fans a week ago? Iâ€™ll wager the majority were not

Unless a person has a personal reason/connection to support another nation (even a neighbouring country) why would they?

I've nothing against any English person (I'm married to one) its supporting England as a 'product' (for want of a better word) that sticks in the craw
		
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I don't expect any Scot to support England, I don't think any England fan does. It is the open hostility and anyone but England approach which gets tiresome.


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## HughJars (Jul 6, 2018)

Cabby said:



			Here's one to chew over, being Scottish it's pretty bloody depressing watching the world cup knowing we're not there....as usual and that we're unlikely to be any time soon. However, it's almost as difficult suffering Engurlands progress as it's just hard to listen to but here's a thing, I'm not jealous, I'm envious, personally couldn't bare you lot to win it but I really do wish I could share the feeling of euphoria and atmosphere that comes over a nation through sport. 

Guess the closest we've got in recent years was the Golden Saturday at the Olympics in 2012 

Come on Sweden !
		
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Neither. The media, the pundits, the general hubris, and the fact they are historically the auld enemy, are all reasons most Scots wish nothing but ill will on the football team, as most football fans everywhere do with their nearest rivals.

It's something uniquely English that they feel put out by this when it comes to their football team, every other rivalry this is laughed off, but for some reason we're supposed to turn sport on its head and support them. I absolutely do not get it.


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## HughJars (Jul 6, 2018)

drdel said:



			The media (like all businesses) is a numbers game. The population of Scotland is about the same as Manchester so 'local' radio etc. is all that's affordable/justifiable.

I'm afraid the Scottish 'chip on the shoulder' just gets a bit boring. Childish anti-England behaviour, as witnessed by the SNMP in Parliament this week shows that childish antics aren't limited to children
		
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You're happy that many Tory MPs wanted to skive off? Would your work have let you skive off? You take umbrage with this, yet I'm sure you said nothing when devolved matters got 15 minutes and one Scottish speakerduring the Brexit debate, the pay off for that horrific circumventing of democracy is the SNP wanting things done by procedure, and by **** they're doing everything they can to make sure it happens.


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## Slab (Jul 6, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't expect any Scot to support England, I don't think any England fan does. It is the open hostility and anyone but England approach which gets tiresome.
		
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Let me put it another way

I used to support whoever was playing against Rory or hoping he wouldnâ€™t make a cut/putt etc (simply because I didnâ€™t like or agree with some of the things heâ€™s said and done) now Iâ€™m more â€˜mehâ€™ to how well he does. But the moment he gets all up himself the old feelings will resurface (Iâ€™m sure he doesnâ€™t care a jot how I feel and why should he)

Itâ€™s basically like that with England at sport (I donâ€™t like or agree with things sheâ€™s said and done but Iâ€™m kinda past proactively hoping they fail (most of the time anyway) but as soon as the bad stuff comes up again so does the desire to see them beaten :lol:

And because we share a media 'your' natural jubilation in any sporting success (& you have every right to celebrate) but it doesn't always communicate well to the entire audience especially those in other countries


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## HughJars (Jul 6, 2018)

Don Barzini said:



			I would bet if you watched any other nationâ€™s home coverage of the World Cup, youâ€™d find they did things similarly - covered all games, but interspersed it with news and chat about the home nation. Yet because British television does it for the England team, itâ€™s somehow unacceptable to Scottish people.
		
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I would say so yes, but unlike when for example Scotland qualified, we got our coverage, you took your own overage and even put English commentators on the games, we've not been granted such largesse by the BBC here (we can't point at ITV as they are commercial), and have to suffer the English coverage. With that is a responsibility to have a UK slant rather than a pro-english slant. If they want to go all jingoistic, then give BBC Scotland/Wales/NI their own teams to cover the world cup.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 6, 2018)

I'm Scottish, living in England and I'll support any English teams or sports personalities*







*apart from when they are playing Scotland or it's Lewis Hamilton


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 6, 2018)

HughJars said:



			Neither. The media, the pundits, the general hubris, and the fact they are historically the auld enemy, are all reasons most Scots wish nothing but ill will on the football team, as most football fans everywhere do with their nearest rivals.

It's something uniquely English that they feel put out by this when it comes to their football team, every other rivalry this is laughed off, but for some reason we're supposed to turn sport on its head and support them. I absolutely do not get it.
		
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Good post, except for the part about supporting us, itâ€™s not expected at all, fill your boots supporting everyone we come up against, youâ€™re tarring everyone with the same brush.

Itâ€™s the crap that goes with it, Scottish, Irish, Welsh fans abroad, all go and have a beer, sing songs, fantastic passion, English fans doing the same are arrogant!

Yes we have mindless morons, so does everyone else, were all labelled the same.


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## HowlingGale (Jul 6, 2018)

drdel said:



			The media (like all businesses) is a numbers game. The population of Scotland is about the same as Manchester
		
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I stopped reading your post at this point. Think you want to go and check your numbers then get back to us.


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## KenL (Jul 6, 2018)

I thought Manchester's population was less than Glasgow? Certainly used to be.


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## Don Barzini (Jul 6, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't expect any Scot to support England, I  don't think any England fan does. It is the open hostility and anyone  but England approach which gets tiresome.
		
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Spot on. 




HughJars said:



			I would say so yes, but unlike when for example Scotland qualified, we got our coverage, you took your own overage and even put English commentators on the games, we've not been granted such largesse by the BBC here (we can't point at ITV as they are commercial), and have to suffer the English coverage. With that is a responsibility to have a UK slant rather than a pro-english slant. If they want to go all jingoistic, then give BBC Scotland/Wales/NI their own teams to cover the world cup.
		
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I accept the point about wanting to have Scottish commentators on a Scotland game. I see no reason they couldn't or wouldn't do that.

But you simply cannot expect a group of English pundits not to get excited and want to see England win. Same as I would not expect a Scottish pundit on the BBC to not get excited about Scotland, or an Argentinian pundit about Argentina etc etc


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 6, 2018)

Cabby said:



			Here's one to chew over, being Scottish it's pretty bloody depressing watching the world cup knowing we're not there....as usual and that we're unlikely to be any time soon. However, it's almost as difficult suffering Engurlands progress as it's just hard to listen to but here's a thing, I'm not jealous, I'm envious, personally couldn't bare you lot to win it but I really do wish I could share the feeling of euphoria and atmosphere that comes over a nation through sport. 

Guess the closest we've got in recent years was the Golden Saturday at the Olympics in 2012 

Come on Sweden !
		
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No envy or jealousy from me...having an English wife and half English half Scottish children - I am supporting England all the way to the Final.  

What happens then - well I am not very sure - however I consider what might happen as the finishing line approaches - and look at what happened to Devon Loch...


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## HowlingGale (Jul 6, 2018)

Don Barzini said:



			Spot on. 




I accept the point about wanting to have Scottish commentators on a Scotland game. I see no reason they couldn't or wouldn't do that.

But you simply cannot expect a group of English pundits not to get excited and want to see England win. Same as I would not expect a Scottish pundit on the BBC to not get excited about Scotland, or an Argentinian pundit about Argentina etc etc
		
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I'll try one last time. English pundits getting excited about England when they are playing is fine.

What is not acceptable is them going he'll for leather about England during games that don't involve England.

Your inability to accept there is an issue with bias and impatiality is what perpetuates the problem. So in effect you contribute to it.


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## Don Barzini (Jul 6, 2018)

HowlingGale said:



			I'll try one last time. English pundits getting excited about England when they are playing is fine.

*What is not acceptable is them going he'll for leather about England during games that don't involve England.
*
Your inability to accept there is an issue with bias and impatiality is what perpetuates the problem. So in effect you contribute to it.
		
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And equally I'll try one last time. It simply doesn't happen to the degree you believe it does.


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## HowlingGale (Jul 6, 2018)

Don Barzini said:



			And equally I'll try one last time. It simply doesn't happen to the degree you believe it does.
		
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The fact it happens at all is inexcusable, I'm afraid.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 6, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			I've lived in England for 30 years. My missus is English. 95% of my mates are English. My kids are England supporters. Most of the music I love was made by Englishmen

I certainly don't hate the English. 

I do however get wound up by the superiority complex some English folk have, particularly when it comes to sport. I also dislike the unbridled "patriotism" which has a distasteful veneer of casual racism which seems to grip people during major events, be it the WC or the Brexit vote. This is all orchestrated by the right-wing press, and folk fall for it every time. 

I have noticed an increase in "sweaty sock" and "Jimmy Krankie" comments whenever these events come round, so let's not pretend it's all a one way street.

I do support British folk in individual events, be they Scottish, NI, Welsh or English. I just can't bring myself to support an "England" team.

Maybe the best solution would be to have a British international football side, but I dare say there would be a massive backlash against that idea if it ever gained any traction.
		
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I do rather get quite a lot of the "sweaty sock" and "Jimmy Krankie" comments from some guys in the club.  And they DO expect me to be 'anti-English' and to be supporting ABE.  However as a proud and confident Scot - and whilst holding affection for our Celtic cousins - I KNOW that we are superior to all others in the UK and so quite easily rise above it all with a smile.


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## Don Barzini (Jul 6, 2018)

HowlingGale said:



			The fact it happens at all is inexcusable, I'm afraid.
		
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No it isn't.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 6, 2018)

KenL said:



			I thought Manchester's population was less than Glasgow? Certainly used to be.
		
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Maybe he was including all the Man Utd supporters that have never been to Manchester


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## HowlingGale (Jul 6, 2018)

Don Barzini said:



			No it isn't.
		
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Ok then, go and have a look at the BBC website. Cant post a link. Go to the Sports site then Football world cup. The Live 'Build up to Uruguay v France & Brazil v Belgium is at least 50% about England and how 'it's coming home'.

Care to explain why when I want to read about todays games I'm subjected to stuff that doesn't apply to these games and, in fact, doesn't happen until tomorrow.

I'm afraid it does happen.


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## Slab (Jul 6, 2018)

HowlingGale said:



			I'll try one last time. English pundits getting excited about England when they are playing is fine.

What is not acceptable is them going he'll for leather about England during games that don't involve England.

Your inability to accept there is an issue with bias and impatiality is what perpetuates the problem. So in effect you contribute to it.
		
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You remember when Jack & Victor went from BBC Scotland to BBC2 UK and they actually changed to language the characters used from series two onward from being very 'street' to help our neighbours better understand the programme

Can you imagine ever getting the same consideration in return from the BBC for things like Eastenders etc


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## HowlingGale (Jul 6, 2018)

Slab said:



			You remember when Jack & Victor went from BBC Scotland to BBC2 UK and they actually changed to language the characters used from series two onward from being very 'street' to help our neighbours better understand the programme

Can you imagine ever getting the same consideration in return from the BBC for things like Eastenders etc 

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&#128512;  I think the same thing happened with Trainspotting.

I think us Scots are guilty of talking a lot of bolloks that nobody understands. As evidenced in this thread.


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## Don Barzini (Jul 6, 2018)

HowlingGale said:



			Ok then, go and have a look at the BBC website. Cant post a link. Go to the Sports site then Football world cup. The Live 'Build up to Uruguay v France & Brazil v Belgium is at least 50% about England and how 'it's coming home'.

Care to explain why when I want to read about todays games I'm subjected to stuff that doesn't apply to these games and, in fact, doesn't happen until tomorrow.

I'm afraid it does happen.
		
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Crikey, a website build up which starts five hours before the earliest game. Yawn. 

On a UK based website, they're gonna struggle to fill it with pure team news aren't they? From what I've read, most of the stuff about England is contributed by the public. People are excited, they're gonna send in their contributions. You can do the same if you wish! Let us know if they put yours on!


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## HowlingGale (Jul 6, 2018)

Don Barzini said:



			Crikey, a website build up which starts five hours before the earliest game. Yawn. 

On a UK based website, they're gonna struggle to fill it with pure team news aren't they? From what I've read, most of the stuff about England is contributed by the public. People are excited, they're gonna send in their contributions. You can do the same if you wish! Let us know if they put yours on!
		
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So in the face of overwhelming evidence you still refuse to accept there's an issue.

And so the problem continues. You carry on wondering why 'we have a chip on our shoulder' and we'll continue to have said 'chip'.


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## Don Barzini (Jul 6, 2018)

HowlingGale said:



			So in the face of overwhelming evidence you still refuse to accept there's an issue.

And so the problem continues. You carry on wondering why 'we have a chip on our shoulder' and we'll continue to have said 'chip'.
		
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You're honestly really that upset by a British website which publishes content from British fans about a British team, five hours before the earliest kick off of a different game? 

Honestly, it's pathetic.

How much stuff do you want to read about Uruguay, France, Belgium and Brazil over the next five hours anyway?  Could you consider visiting a Uruguayan, French, Belgian or Brazilian website instead? 

And I'll say it again - would they really not publish pics and comments of proud Scottish fans if Scotland were in it?


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## HowlingGale (Jul 6, 2018)

Don Barzini said:



			You're honestly really that upset by a British website which publishes content from British fans about a British team, five hours before the earliest kick off of a different game? 

Honestly, it's pathetic.

How much stuff do you want to read about Uruguay, France, Belgium and Brazil over the next five hours anyway? 

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You're on the wind up. 

I'll spell it out because you're obviously having difficulty grasping the concept. Why have content about England and Sweden on a page that specifically says the build up to todays games?

Why can't they have '1966' and 'its coming home' on a page that's nothing to do with todays games?

Problem solved. You get your content elsewhere and those of us that only want to read about team news for todays games can do so.


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## Don Barzini (Jul 6, 2018)

HowlingGale said:



			Why have content about England and Sweden on a page that specifically says the build up to todays games?
		
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Actually, it says _"Latest World Cup news, gossip and social media as Uruguay play France before Belgium play Brazil in the quarter finals." _The content fills the brief.

It doesn't say _"Latest World Cup news (but only about Uruguay, France, Brazil and Belgium - we can't talk about any other teams until tomorrow), gossip (but only about Uruguay, France, Brazil and Belgium - we can't talk about any other teams until tomorrow) and social media (but only about Uruguay, France, Brazil and Belgium - we can't talk about any other teams until tomorrow) as Uruguay play France before Belgium play Brazil in the quarter finals."_

If it did, I'd see your point.

I say again - if Scotland were playing tomorrow the page would be full of proud Scots in their kilts, with blue faces etc etc. And no English person would give a toss that they weren't playing until tomorrow.


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## IanM (Jul 6, 2018)

As an Englishman living in Wales, who also had two years in Glasgow, I've seen warmth, banter and utter hatred from various folk!

 - Eg found Glasgow the warmest bunch of folk I've ever seen, but also the odd bloke wanting to _heed-but ye _just for going in the wrong pub.  I've never seen anything like the levels of nastiness towards Scots/Welsh while in England... but we usually like to wind up lack their of presence at World Cups 

If Scotland got this far in the World Cup the BBC would have the same coverage... there's even special BBC TV for Wales and Scotland, no similar in England a very local to each region. 2 years ago when "_Gareth Bale and 10 Bokes_" (  ) did really well in the Euros, it was the same blanket coverage.

Why shouldn't the British State Broadcaster be biased towards sports teams from these Islands? 

*Anyway  - Scotland and England both went out of the World Cup during July........ one in 2017 one in 2018  *:whoo:


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## Hobbit (Jul 6, 2018)

HowlingGale said:



			I'll try one last time. English pundits getting excited about England when they are playing is fine.

What is not acceptable is them going he'll for leather about England during games that don't involve England.

Your inability to accept there is an issue with bias and impatiality is what perpetuates the problem. So in effect you contribute to it.
		
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I don't expect English pundits to be unbiased. Anyone that does is either naive or has a chip on their shoulder and (secretly) likes to be offended by it because it suits their argument.



Don Barzini said:



			And equally I'll try one last time. It simply doesn't happen to the degree you believe it does.
		
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I agree. I've watched more football this World Cup than I ever have - the joys of being retired. I don't think there's half as much going on about England as some people think there is... maybe some are just too sensitive to it.



HowlingGale said:



			The fact it happens at all is inexcusable, I'm afraid.
		
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What fact is that then? Your fact or my fact? Its down to opinions really, not facts.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 6, 2018)

drdel said:



			The media (like all businesses) is a numbers game. The population of Scotland is about the same as Manchester so 'local' radio etc. is all that's affordable/justifiable.

I'm afraid the Scottish 'chip on the shoulder' just gets a bit boring. Childish anti-England behaviour, as witnessed by the SNMP in Parliament this week shows that childish antics aren't limited to children
		
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I think you'll find Scotland's population is about 8-10 times bigger than Manchester.


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## pendodave (Jul 6, 2018)

Actually, it's about twice as big.... 5.4 to 2.7 if we use greater manc for the stats. England is 10 times.


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## Robster59 (Jul 6, 2018)

I'm old enough to remember when Scotland where in the World Cup and England weren't and as far as I can remember there was an awful lot of coverage of the Scottish team at that time.  And as an Englishman living in England at the time, I was right behind Scotland and was disappointed when they went out. 

So at that I was disappointed that England weren't in but delighted Scotland were and so was neither envious or jealous.  I was just supporting a British team.  (Sorry for going back on topic). 

The difference now is that from 3-4 terrestrial channels we now have multiple channels, radio, social media, etc. so to some people it seems more "in your face". 

Now, as an Englishman living in Glasgow, I've really had no issues living here and peoples reactions to me.  I've had nothing but good vibes.  And I've travelled all over the world and again I am seen as British not English and nobody has been negative to me for being English.  I think as was mentioned above somewhere, you get what you give.  If you're nice to people, they're generally nice back.  
Saying that, I don't push the England results in anyones face and I don't have an England flag on my car as I am sure that it would get some damage if I did.  If somebody had a Saltire on their car in England, nobody would bat an eye.


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## pendodave (Jul 6, 2018)

The first two world cups I watched as a sentient being were 74 and 78. My memory is of cheering on the Scots and the telly being full of coverage of their team and fans. 

Don't remember too much humility being exhibited by the boys in kilts...

Personally, I think most England and Scotland fans are pretty similar - scarred by years of failure, expecting the worst and getting just a tiny bit giddy despite all evidence to the contrary. It's a shame that nonsense on the telly and in the papers leads to any misunderstanding..,


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 6, 2018)

Currently available on the BBC Iplayer is a documentary shown the other week about Allyâ€™s Army, brilliant programme, but absolutely correct about the hype.
Including the open top bus tour prior to them leaving to bring the World Cup back.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 6, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Currently available on the BBC Iplayer is a documentary shown the other week about Allyâ€™s Army, brilliant programme, but absolutely correct about the hype.
Including the open top bus tour prior to them leaving to bring the World Cup back.
		
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Me and my brother were in the 25,000 crowd who went to Hampden for the 1978 'Farewell party' - it was absurd - but it was brilliant.  Great times.  I still have my souvenir programme  

And as World Champions Argentina did a European tour - so June 1979 finds them in Hampden to play Scotland - to show off their new wunderkind - a certain Mr Diego Maradona.  And we were there among the 62,000 - and we saw that young genius - albeit he was very, very little from the back of the Rangers End.  Scotland lost 3-1 but Argentia were just so good - lots of applause all around Hampden that glorious day in the sun.


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## Don Barzini (Jul 6, 2018)

Here you go. Just for HowlingGale and anyone else whoâ€™s upset that English people are talking about England today on a British website about World Cup news:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/43976689

Itâ€™s a thread dedicated purely to the Uruguay v France game. No mention of England anywhere. They started it at 1pm.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 6, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Me and my brother were in the 25,000 crowd who went to Hampden for the 1978 'Farewell party' - it was absurd - but it was brilliant.  Great times.  I still have my souvenir programme  

And as World Champions Argentina did a European tour - so June 1979 finds them in Hampden to play Scotland - to show off their new wunderkind - a certain Mr Diego Maradona.  And we were there among the 62,000 - and we saw that young genius - albeit he was very, very little from the back of the Rangers End.  Scotland lost 3-1 but Argentia were just so good - lots of applause all around Hampden that glorious day in the sun.
		
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...I might add that I didn't buy the 1978 album - I did however buy the 1974 one - Easy Easy they sang  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFhbOYcwbYU

How very brilliant that I still get such a massive tingle from Arthur's commentary at the end (the Czechoslovakia game I think)

And because I just must ... what a racket at Hampden 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3WSJiiflJk


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## IanM (Jul 6, 2018)

Robster59 said:



			I'm old enough to remember when Scotland where in the World Cup and England weren't and as far as I can remember there was an awful lot of coverage of the Scottish team at that time.  And as an Englishman living in England at the time, I was right behind Scotland and was disappointed when they went out. 

I don't have an England flag on my car as I am sure that it would get some damage if I did.  If somebody had a Saltire on their car in England, nobody would bat an eye.
		
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Correct on both counts... therein lies the difference


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## Don Barzini (Jul 6, 2018)

So it was Uruguay v France this afternoon. Since Iâ€™ve been informed on here that England get mentioned every few minutes during coverage of games theyâ€™re not playing at, I thought Iâ€™d put that theory to the test. I went in open minded, preparing to be proven wrong. 

(Now admittedly i didnâ€™t see every single minute, since I had my 3 year old to look after and popped out to get my other two from school)

The game was on ITV. Not a single mention of England until the last 8 minutes of coverage when they did a short report featuring Pickford and Southgate. 

England get mentioned every few minutes during coverage of games theyâ€™re not even playing at? Not on todayâ€™s evidence they donâ€™t. Iâ€™m sure it happens every other time though. I must have picked the one single game that was the exception to the rule, Iâ€™m sure.......


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2018)

I know exactly what Rudebhoy and Howling are saying - at times there is an arrogance from England football fans and they at times believe the world revolves around the England team especially when there is a tournament on and the BBC or indeed most media outlets will go a bit over the top with the hype and right now all the â€œitâ€™s coming Homeâ€ etc is all over the place - MOTD for example were at it as well and itâ€™s a program that goes all over the UK not just England. People getting a little carried away and it spills over a touch at times and looks and sounds like arrogance and it will make the home nations want England to lose - when Wales and N Ireland were doing well in the last Euros you didnâ€™t get the same hype from the same outlets


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 6, 2018)

pendodave said:



			Actually, it's about twice as big.... 5.4 to 2.7 if we use greater manc for the stats. England is 10 times.
		
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He said Manchester as an example, so I used Manchester, not Greater Manchester.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 6, 2018)

Would be nice if people could think about what they post, sometimes a post can come across completely different by the use of words like, â€œsomeâ€ or â€œa minorityâ€ or â€œthe majorityâ€ etc
Not all England fans are arrogant, not all Scottish people hate the English.
At times sport can be very tribalistic and even at club level in football Iâ€™m 100% positive some fans would be offended if we classed them all the same as the embarrassing nkobs every club, regardless of nationality, have.


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## louise_a (Jul 6, 2018)

I do find rivalry a strange thing, I am Lancashire, England and football wise support Blackpool, but if my team isn't in a particular competition I will tend to want the team most local to me to win, so England over Scotland, but Scotland over a non UK team, Lancs over Yorks, but Yorks over a Southern team, Pool over Preston but Preston over a non Lancs team.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 6, 2018)

maxfli65 said:



			Dont mix up a historic football rivalty that these days is not even that, with dislike of a people or a country or politics. There is very little imo but there is strong anti Tory feeling which can get mixed up as anti English since MaggieT. From comments all over this forum I think dislike is stronger in the other direction tbh largely because of the indyref and SNP and political issues that gets spun down south in certain media.
		
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You are completely wrong, in England we don't carry feelings of hatred to Scotts, when we meet Scottish people in England (and many choose to live here for some reason) we tend to treat them as equals without any feelings of superiority or alienation.   Scotts living in Scotland can tend to be Clannish to the point of being racist. Nothing to be singing and dancing about. You just have to look to the Scottish anthem and how it is based on 14th century wars and English hatred.  Time to get over it.


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## pendodave (Jul 6, 2018)

SocketRocket said:



			You are completely wrong, in England we don't carry feelings of hatred to Scotts, when we meet Scottish people in England (and many choose to live here for some reason) we tend to treat them as equals without any feelings of superiority or alienation.   Scotts living in Scotland can tend to be Clannish to the point of being racist. Nothing to be singing and dancing about. You just have to look to the Scottish anthem and how it is based on 14th century wars and English hatred.  Time to get over it.
		
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You are familiar with the last verse of our national anthem, I presume....


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## SocketRocket (Jul 6, 2018)

pendodave said:



			You are familiar with the last verse of our national anthem, I presume....
		
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Ah!! But most only know one verse so it's not the same.   Well done though


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## pendodave (Jul 6, 2018)

Thought I aught to point it out before the northerners. 

I agree with the point that we are cordial to those from other parts of the British Isles. Though I think that the relationship is more complicated in the other direction for all sorts of reasons, and it's best not to assume the position of the moral high ground. Clearances, famines etc only ended a few generations ago.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 6, 2018)

pendodave said:



			Thought I aught to point it out before the northerners. 

I agree with the point that we are cordial to those from other parts of the British Isles. Though I think that the relationship is more complicated in the other direction for all sorts of reasons, and it's best not to assume the position of the moral high ground. Clearances, famines etc only ended a few generations ago.
		
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Transportation and the rack only ended a few generations ago but I think we have managed to leave it behind us now.


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## Fade and Die (Jul 7, 2018)

Fish said:



			Just build a wall and be done with it.....

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Aye..... and make the Scots pay for it (out of the pocket money we give em &#128521


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## Slab (Jul 7, 2018)

SocketRocket said:



			You are completely wrong, in England we don't carry feelings of hatred to Scotts, when we meet Scottish people in England (and many choose to live here for some reason) we tend to treat them as equals without any feelings of superiority or alienation.   Scotts living in Scotland can tend to be Clannish to the point of being racist. Nothing to be singing and dancing about. You just have to look to the Scottish anthem and how it is based on 14th century wars and English hatred.  Time to get over it.
		
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In any relationship the dominant partner rarely has a problem with the arrangement (& may not even feel superior) but can easily find fault in the partner being dominated 

Whether its two countries, societies, communities, teams, next door neighours or even siblings in a partnership. The dominant partner is usually the bigger/stronger one but this isn't about bullying which is quite different 

Imagine a couple where one dominates and always chooses which film to go and see but once or twice a year after much complaining, arguments and huffs they concede and the other partner gets to choose a couple
The dominant one assumes this concession will shut them up for evermore simply by getting to decide something 2 in 10 times because that's way more than they used to get but the one being dominated still knows that 2/10 is still way below an equal footing in a partnership, so the complaining continues and the dominant partner is flummoxed even incredulous why there's still a problem

So regardless of what was accepted (even agreed) at the beginning of the partnership time has moved on and the inequality is no longer acceptable 

Often the dominant one will simply fall back on the monetary contribution each brings to the partnership as to why they should choose whats best for both more often and sometimes that can be entirely correct (if its business partnership for example) But the boss cant expect the same emotional partnership that would exist between a couple in the same circumstance

So if its a partnership's based on money, power, size etc that's cool but don't be surprised when the other partner wont act all supportive and emotionally invested in how you're doing at the world cup (& might even hope you fall flat on yer face)


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## Don Barzini (Jul 7, 2018)

pendodave said:



			You are familiar with the last verse of our national anthem, I presume....
		
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Are you talking about the verse which was written during the Jacobite war of 1745, which was probably only actually ever sung for the first and last time during that same year and which was never actually adopted as an official verse of the National Anthem when it was established as such in the 19th Century? Is it THAT verse?


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## rudebhoy (Jul 7, 2018)

Paul Heaton is playing an outdoor gig just down the road from us tonight.

It's in a great setting, loads of good pubs on the doorstep, the weather forecast is terrific and you can take your own beer in. It sold out very quickly, but I got offered a pair of tickets for face value last night. Suggested it to my missus who is a big fan of indie music. She looked at me, and said "you must be mad". I asked why, she said "it will be full of folk who have been on the beer all day watching the England game. If they win, there will be beer flying everywhere and loads of drunken ********s. If they lose, it will be full of the same drunken ********s looking for a fight."

Sadly she is right, so we are giving it a miss. England fans and loads of drink is a pretty bad combination.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 7, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			Paul Heaton is playing an outdoor gig just down the road from us tonight.

It's in a great setting, loads of good pubs on the doorstep, the weather forecast is terrific and you can take your own beer in. It sold out very quickly, but I got offered a pair of tickets for face value last night. Suggested it to my missus who is a big fan of indie music. She looked at me, and said "you must be mad". I asked why, she said "it will be full of folk who have been on the beer all day watching the England game. If they win, there will be beer flying everywhere and loads of drunken ********s. If they lose, it will be full of the same drunken ********s looking for a fight."

Sadly she is right, so we are giving it a miss. England fans and loads of drink is a pretty bad combination.
		
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Yep, thatâ€™ll be because weâ€™re all the same :thup:


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## bluewolf (Jul 7, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			Paul Heaton is playing an outdoor gig just down the road from us tonight.

It's in a great setting, loads of good pubs on the doorstep, the weather forecast is terrific and you can take your own beer in. It sold out very quickly, but I got offered a pair of tickets for face value last night. Suggested it to my missus who is a big fan of indie music. She looked at me, and said "you must be mad". I asked why, she said "it will be full of folk who have been on the beer all day watching the England game. If they win, there will be beer flying everywhere and loads of drunken ********s. If they lose, it will be full of the same drunken ********s looking for a fight."

Sadly she is right, so we are giving it a miss. England fans and loads of drink is a pretty bad combination.
		
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&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;

Yeah, if only there was some evidence that Scottish football fans drank too much and got violent. Mongtards come in all shapes, sizes, colours and nationalities. The idea that they don't cross borders is faintly laughable &#128514;


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## Don Barzini (Jul 7, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			Sadly she is right, so we are giving it a miss. England fans and loads of drink is a pretty bad combination.
		
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Yawn. Lazy stereotype much?

Yeah and all Scottish people wear a kilt and sporran every day, spend their spare time playing the bagpipes, have red cheeks and a red nose from drinking too much whisky and have a diet which purely consists of haggis and deep fried Mars bars.


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## Lazkir (Jul 7, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			Paul Heaton is playing an outdoor gig just down the road from us tonight.

It's in a great setting, loads of good pubs on the doorstep, the weather forecast is terrific and you can take your own beer in. It sold out very quickly, but I got offered a pair of tickets for face value last night. Suggested it to my missus who is a big fan of indie music. She looked at me, and said "you must be mad". I asked why, she said "it will be full of folk who have been on the beer all day watching the England game. If they win, there will be beer flying everywhere and loads of drunken ********s. If they lose, it will be full of the same drunken ********s looking for a fight."

Sadly she is right, so we are giving it a miss. England fans and loads of drink is a pretty bad combination.
		
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Stereotypical racist claptrap!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2018)

Lazkir said:



			Stereotypical racist claptrap!
		
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Why is it racist ?

It maybe a bit too generic but letâ€™s be honest there are plenty of incidents of England fans causing issues through drinking when the game is on - social media is awash with fights and incidents from the last match , even my home town had incidents and arrests with the pub ending up being closed early 

Itâ€™s a pretty fair assessment from his wife when you looking at how people are reacting - 

Itâ€™s most certainly not racist


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## bluewolf (Jul 7, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why is it racist ?

It maybe a bit too generic but letâ€™s be honest there are plenty of incidents of England fans causing issues through drinking when the game is on - social media is awash with fights and incidents from the last match , even my home town had incidents and arrests with the pub ending up being closed early 

Itâ€™s a pretty fair assessment from his wife when you looking at how people are reacting - 

Itâ€™s most certainly not racist
		
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You're right. It isn't. 

It's xenophobic claptrap.


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## Don Barzini (Jul 7, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why is it racist ?

It maybe a bit too generic but letâ€™s be honest there are plenty of incidents of England fans causing issues through drinking when the game is on - social media is awash with fights and incidents from the last match , even my home town had incidents and arrests with the pub ending up being closed early 

Itâ€™s a pretty fair assessment from his wife when you looking at how people are reacting - 

Itâ€™s most certainly not racist
		
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It happens everywhere. To portray it as an â€œEngland onlyâ€ problem is just a lazy load of old rubbish.


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## Lazkir (Jul 7, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why is it racist ?

It maybe a bit too generic but letâ€™s be honest there are plenty of incidents of England fans causing issues through drinking when the game is on - social media is awash with fights and incidents from the last match , even my home town had incidents and arrests with the pub ending up being closed early 

Itâ€™s a pretty fair assessment from his wife when you looking at how people are reacting - 

Itâ€™s most certainly not racist
		
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Replace the word 'English' with Black, Muslim, Pakistani etc. and what's the difference?

If he'd had said 'football fans' or even just 'people', then yeah, he may have had a point. But no, he didn't did he?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2018)

His comment is not racist - what he described is exactly what happened the other day at a local pub - England fans on lots of drink celebrated and beer was everywhere and it ruined peopleâ€™s night who were there having a drink , a smoke bomb was also let off meaning the pub was also evacuated. 

He said England fans and its England fans that are doing it and have been doing it for years - every single tournament until now has had issues with England fans causing probs Home and away - itâ€™s not racist to say that for goodness sake - itâ€™s just a fact. Yes other fans will also have issues but he isnâ€™t going to encounter them on a day out in England. 

Itâ€™s not racist to say that at times England fans react in a manner that affects others around them - itâ€™s a proven fact and there are yearly examples of it all over the place

Far too easily people throw around the racist tag - all it does is devalue real racism


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## bluewolf (Jul 7, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			His comment is not racist - what he described is exactly what happened the other day at a local pub - England fans on lots of drink celebrated and beer was everywhere and it ruined peopleâ€™s night who were there having a drink , a smoke bomb was also let off meaning the pub was also evacuated. 

He said England fans and its England fans that are doing it and have been doing it for years - every single tournament until now has had issues with England fans causing probs Home and away - itâ€™s not racist to say that for goodness sake - itâ€™s just a fact. Yes other fans will also have issues but he isnâ€™t going to encounter them on a day out in England. 

Itâ€™s not racist to say that at times England fans react in a manner that affects others around them - itâ€™s a proven fact and there are yearly examples of it all over the place
		
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Must've been a big pub if all the England fans were in it. Strange, as I've completely forgotten it. 

It's not "England fans"

It is "Football fans"

For example, if I said that all Scotland fans were thuggish women beaters I'd be wrong. It's just a small number of old firm fans. And I recognise that ðŸ‘


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## rudebhoy (Jul 7, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Yep, thatâ€™ll be because weâ€™re all the same :thup:
		
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when did I say that? the majority will be ok, but there will be a sizeable number of yahoos getting lairy.


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## rudebhoy (Jul 7, 2018)

Lazkir said:



			Stereotypical racist claptrap!
		
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that really is a pathetic comment.

we both know it kicks off with England fans at every major tournament, home and away. there will be a sizeable minority who turn up at this gig, having been on the beer for 5 or 6 hours, acting like a bunch of yobs.


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## rudebhoy (Jul 7, 2018)

bluewolf said:



			You're right. It isn't. 


It's xenophobic claptrap.
		
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It's xenophobic claptrap to suggest there will be loads of 20-30 year old lads beered up and acting like tw@ts tonight? I'd have said it's a certainty.


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## Lazkir (Jul 7, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			His comment is not racist - what he described is exactly what happened the other day at a local pub - England fans on lots of drink celebrated and beer was everywhere and it ruined peopleâ€™s night who were there having a drink , a smoke bomb was also let off meaning the pub was also evacuated. 

He said England fans and its England fans that are doing it and have been doing it for years - every single tournament until now has had issues with England fans causing probs Home and away - itâ€™s not racist to say that for goodness sake - itâ€™s just a fact. Yes other fans will also have issues but he isnâ€™t going to encounter them on a day out in England. 

Itâ€™s not racist to say that at times England fans react in a manner that affects others around them - itâ€™s a proven fact and there are yearly examples of it all over the place

Far too easily people throw around the racist tag - all it does is devalue real racism
		
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You can obfuscate all you like, but my point still stands about the word change.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 7, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			when did I say that? the majority will be ok, but there will be a sizeable number of yahoos getting lairy.
		
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Read what you posted, you said â€œfull of england fansâ€ not a minority or sizeable number.
You get a little bit of trouble at most music festivals or in South Shields on a saturday night. Who do you blame when England arenâ€™t playing?


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## Lazkir (Jul 7, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			that really is a pathetic comment.

we both know it kicks off with England fans at every major tournament, home and away. there will be a sizeable minority who turn up at this gig, having been on the beer for 5 or 6 hours, acting like a bunch of yobs.
		
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No, it doesn't. Only in your head it may do because it suits your agenda.
You really need to stop digging, you're making yourself look ridiculous now.


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## rudebhoy (Jul 7, 2018)

bluewolf said:



			&#62978;&#62978;&#62978;

Yeah, if only there was some evidence that Scottish football fans drank too much and got violent. Mongtards come in all shapes, sizes, colours and nationalities. The idea that they don't cross borders is faintly laughable &#62978;
		
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it does happen occasionally, but nowhere near as often as it does with England. I went to Seville to see Celtic in the UEFA Cup Final, there was 80,000 of us there, and not a single arrest, in fact our fans won an award from FIFA for being the best in the world.

I've also been to Perpignan for the last 2 years to watch Leeds Rhinos, there have been 3 or 4 thousand fans there, all English, all on the beer, and all perfectly behaved. The contrast between them and English football fans was unbelievable.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 7, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			His comment is not racist - what he described is exactly what happened the other day at a local pub - England fans on lots of drink celebrated and beer was everywhere and it ruined peopleâ€™s night who were there having a drink , a smoke bomb was also let off meaning the pub was also evacuated. 

He said England fans and its England fans that are doing it and have been doing it for years - every single tournament until now has had issues with England fans causing probs Home and away - itâ€™s not racist to say that for goodness sake - itâ€™s just a fact. Yes other fans will also have issues but he isnâ€™t going to encounter them on a day out in England. 

Itâ€™s not racist to say that at times England fans react in a manner that affects others around them - itâ€™s a proven fact and there are yearly examples of it all over the place

Far too easily people throw around the racist tag - all it does is devalue real racism
		
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This is the Mouth of The Tyne Festival, 4 Day concert, sold out months ago.
Who bought the tickets? England fans hoping weâ€™d be playing in the Q/F or music fans, thousands attending.
Not your local pub with a few nkobheads.
You really must stop tarring every England fan with the same brush.


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## rudebhoy (Jul 7, 2018)

Lazkir said:



			No, it doesn't. Only in your head it may do because it suits your agenda.
You really need to stop digging, you're making yourself look ridiculous now.
		
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not me throwing the "racist" card around. 

If you really think it doesn't kick off at every major football tournament, I'd be happy to post a few links to prove you wrong.


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## bluewolf (Jul 7, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			It's xenophobic claptrap to suggest there will be loads of 20-30 year old lads beered up and acting like tw@ts tonight? I'd have said it's a certainty.
		
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That's not what you said. You said "England fans".


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 7, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			it does happen occasionally, but nowhere near as often as it does with England. I went to Seville to see Celtic in the UEFA Cup Final, there was 80,000 of us there, and not a single arrest, in fact our fans won an award from FIFA for being the best in the world.

I've also been to Perpignan for the last 2 years to watch Leeds Rhinos, there have been 3 or 4 thousand fans there, all English, all on the beer, and all perfectly behaved. The contrast between them and English football fans was unbelievable.
		
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5 arrests in Seville before and after the game, 81 arrested back in Scotland after the defeat.
Does that mean you left the idiots behind?


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## rudebhoy (Jul 7, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			This is the Mouth of The Tyne Festival, 4 Day concert, sold out months ago.
Who bought the tickets? England fans hoping weâ€™d be playing in the Q/F or music fans, thousands attending.
Not your local pub with a few nkobheads.
You really must stop tarring every England fan with the same brush.
		
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I've been to it a few times, it's a general p1ss up, just as many young lads out for a night on the beer as there is diehard music fans. the tickets are cheap, there are a load of pubs on the doorstep, and you can take in as much alcohol as you can carry. It will be worse today because there will be a load who have been on the beer since early afternoon.

btw - no-one is saying "every england fan", I'm saying there will be a sizeable minority who will be acting like idiots.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 7, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			I've been to it a few times, it's a general p1ss up, just as many young lads out for a night on the beer as there is diehard music fans. the tickets are cheap, there are a load of pubs on the doorstep, and you can take in as much alcohol as you can carry. It will be worse today because there will be a load who have been on the beer since early afternoon.

btw - no-one is saying "every england fan", I'm saying there will be a sizeable minority who will be acting like idiots.
		
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So why didnâ€™t you post a â€œsizeable minorityâ€, you posted â€œfull of England fansâ€ intimating every England fan with a beer in them will be causing trouble.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2018)

bluewolf said:



			That's not what you said. You said "England fans".
		
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Come on mate - you know he isnt meaning "every single England" fan - it shouldnt  really need it fully spelling or are people getting that sensitive these day or just looking for offense 

You only have to read through the thread to see some of the arrogance that gets displayed from England fans  ( do i need to say some because we all know its not all of them ) 

For decades England fans ( sorry some ) have shown themselves up in multiple ways , violence mainly fueled by booze especially in away comps , how many incidents have there been ? it seems any time there is any incident these days at an international England fans seem to be involved ( sorry not all ) 

The chap has a very valid point , in fact he has had a few both on the actions during the game from fans and the attitude displayed - it makes people want England to lose so we can past it all ( sorry makes some want them to lose ) 

The arrogance within the squad has been weeded out and the squad are now a well grounded likable bunch of players and manager - next step is trying to remove that reputation away from the fan base.

But people throwing the racist tag around ?? Sorry maybe they should see and face real racism and prejudice first before such a line is used so freely


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## rudebhoy (Jul 7, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			So why didnâ€™t you post a â€œsizeable minorityâ€, you posted â€œfull of England fansâ€ intimating every England fan with a beer in them will be causing trouble.
		
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I've never once said or implied that every England fan is a troublemaker, but if it helps you avoid the point I was making, feel free to persist with that nonsense.


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## bluewolf (Jul 7, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Come on mate - you know he isnt meaning "every single England" fan - it shouldnt  really need it fully spelling or are people getting that sensitive these day or just looking for offense 

You only have to read through the thread to see some of the arrogance that gets displayed from England fans  ( do i need to say some because we all know its not all of them ) 

For decades England fans ( sorry some ) have shown themselves up in multiple ways , violence mainly fueled by booze especially in away comps , how many incidents have there been ? it seems any time there is any incident these days at an international England fans seem to be involved ( sorry not all ) 

The chap has a very valid point , in fact he has had a few both on the actions during the game from fans and the attitude displayed - it makes people want England to lose so we can past it all ( sorry makes some want them to lose ) 

The arrogance within the squad has been weeded out and the squad are now a well grounded likable bunch of players and manager - next step is trying to remove that reputation away from the fan base.

But people throwing the racist tag around ?? Sorry maybe they should see and face real racism and prejudice first before such a line is used so freely
		
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I didn't say it was Racist. I said it was xenophobic. And if you read his posts then he clearly has an issue with England fans. Conveniently forgetting that every other nation has issues with a minority of idiots. Context is King mate and you're missing it.

Anyway, I'm out. I have a round of golf then a game to watch in the Pub. I just hope I don't accidentally end up mashed and fighting like usual &#128077;&#128514;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 7, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			I've never once said or implied that every England fan is a troublemaker, but if it helps you avoid the point I was making, feel free to persist with that nonsense.
		
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Maybe you didnâ€™t, but that is the point, the genuine, law abiding England fan gets just as sick of the nkobheads as you do, or being told were arrogant etc.
No one is looking to excuse the behaviour of a minority or pretend itâ€™s gone away.
Is the media on overload, yes, is it wrong, yes (imo) but if I or someone else say something weâ€™re the ones being over sensitive or reading it incorrectly.
Have a good day, whatever you get up to.


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## rudebhoy (Jul 7, 2018)

bluewolf said:



			I didn't say it was Racist. I said it was xenophobic. And if you read his posts then he clearly has an issue with England fans. Conveniently forgetting that every other nation has issues with a minority of idiots. Context is King mate and you're missing it.
		
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The definition of xenophobia is a fear of foreigners, I've never said I was frightened of the English, so your use of the word is wrong.

But I do have an issue with England fans - some of them, not all of them. It's the same issue a lot of English people have with them as well.


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## rudebhoy (Jul 7, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Maybe you didnâ€™t, but that is the point, the genuine, law abiding England fan gets just as sick of the nkobheads as you do, or being told were arrogant etc.
No one is looking to excuse the behaviour of a minority or pretend itâ€™s gone away.
Is the media on overload, yes, is it wrong, yes (imo) but if say something weâ€™re the ones being over sensitive or reading it incorrectly.
Have a good day, whatever you get up to.
		
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That's the first post of yours I agree with, cheers ðŸ˜€

Am off to find my ABBA cd now.....


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 7, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			That's the first post of yours I agree with, cheers &#128512;

Am off to find my ABBA cd now.....
		
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Waterloo - Also a battle were the English, Prussians and Belgians came together to beat the French. :ears:


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## bluewolf (Jul 7, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			The definition of xenophobia is a fear of foreigners, I've never said I was frightened of the English, so your use of the word is wrong.

But I do have an issue with England fans - some of them, not all of them. It's the same issue a lot of English people have with them as well.
		
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"Fear and Distrust" actually. So my use of the word is correct &#128077;

And is it just English football hooligans you have an issue with?


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## rudebhoy (Jul 7, 2018)

bluewolf said:



			"Fear and Distrust" actually. So my use of the word is correct &#62541;

And is it just English football hooligans you have an issue with?
		
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[FONT=&quot]": [/FONT][FONT=&quot]fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign"

[/FONT]https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/xenophobia

[FONT=&quot]basically it's a another more polite word for "racism', isn't it?



[/FONT]


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## bluewolf (Jul 7, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



[FONT="]": [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#3B3E41][FONT="]fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign"

[/FONT]https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/xenophobia

[FONT="]basically it's a another more polite word for "racism', isn't it?



[/FONT]

Click to expand...





And no. It's not. Because being English, Scottish, French, Italian etc isn't a Race. It's a Nationality.


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## Don Barzini (Jul 7, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			Am off to find my ABBA cd now.....
		
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Howâ€™s Your Croatian/Russian CD collection?


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## bluewolf (Jul 7, 2018)

Don Barzini said:



			Howâ€™s Your Croatian/Russian CD collection?
		
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Surely we've all got Tatu in our collection? Maybe just the video?


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## Lazkir (Jul 7, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			I've been to it a few times, it's a general p1ss up, just as many young lads out for a night on the beer as there is diehard music fans. the tickets are cheap, there are a load of pubs on the doorstep, and you can take in as much alcohol as you can carry. It will be worse today because there will be a load who have been on the beer since early afternoon.

*btw - no-one is saying "every england fan"*, I'm saying there will be a sizeable minority who will be acting like idiots.
		
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Backtracking like a pro!
Keep digging!


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## Don Barzini (Jul 7, 2018)

bluewolf said:



			Surely we've all got Tatu in our collection? Maybe just the video?
		
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Ha ha yes! 

Theres also â€œRa Ra Rasputinâ€ by Boney M. 

Struggling to to think of Croatian ones though.


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## bluewolf (Jul 7, 2018)

Don Barzini said:



			Ha ha yes! 

Theres also â€œRa Ra Rasputinâ€ by Boney M. 

Struggling to to think of Croatian ones though.
		
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I don't know any, but I bet the Women in them are hotter than hell!!! ðŸ˜‚


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## 3offTheTee (Jul 7, 2018)

Well the past few pages has little or nothing to do with the original post.

How often on The Forum does the original post go completely off track?

Far too often is the answer.


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## bluewolf (Jul 7, 2018)

3offTheTee said:



			Well the past few pages has little or nothing to do with the original post.

How often on The Forum does the original post go completely off track?

Far too often is the answer.
		
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It'd be a dry, attritional place if everything stayed completely on track. There'd be maybe 6 or 7 posters constantly telling each other to get lessons or get custom fit. If that's the way people want it then you're all welcome to it &#128077;&#128514;


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## rudebhoy (Jul 7, 2018)

Don Barzini said:



			Howâ€™s Your Croatian/Russian CD collection?
		
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Not great. May have to do some research!


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## rudebhoy (Jul 7, 2018)

Lazkir said:



			Backtracking like a pro!
Keep digging!
		
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Show me where I said "every England fan" and I'll apologise. Of course, if you can't, then you should do likewise for the "racist" comment. Fair enough?


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## IanM (Jul 7, 2018)

As the only Englishman on the Golf team Wattsapp group....I can confirm the majority of my Welshy Buddies are â€œright sick we areâ€ right now...


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## bluewolf (Jul 7, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			Show me where I said "every England fan" and I'll apologise. Of course, if you can't, then you should do likewise for the "racist" comment. Fair enough?
		
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rudebhoy said:



			England fans and loads of drink is a pretty bad combination.
		
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&#128519;&#128519;&#128519;

Now, if you'd said "Football fans". We'd have all agreed and moved on. But you didn't. You singled out a Nation (not a Race). The inference being that all other football fans are fine. But England fans are a bunch of hoolies. 

By the way, to set your mind at rest. I got back from the pub ok. No cuts or bruises. I haven't beaten the wife yet. &#128077;&#128077;


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## rudebhoy (Jul 7, 2018)

bluewolf said:



			&#128519;&#128519;&#128519;

Now, if you'd said "Football fans". We'd have all agreed and moved on. But you didn't. You singled out a Nation (not a Race). The inference being that all other football fans are fine. But England fans are a bunch of hoolies. 

By the way, to set your mind at rest. I got back from the pub ok. No cuts or bruises. I haven't beaten the wife yet. &#128077;&#128077;
		
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Dear me. I'm in England. My original post was about the prospect of England fans being on the drink all day, then rolling up at an outdoor gig 100 yards from the pubs and acting all lairy.

You read that as me singling out a nation? What if I said instead "drunken football fans celebrating an England win"? Is that better?

Laughable mate, get off the offended bus.


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## bluewolf (Jul 7, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			Dear me. I'm in England. My original post was about the prospect of England fans being on the drink all day, then rolling up at an outdoor gig 100 yards from the pubs and acting all lairy.

You read that as me singling out a nation? What if I said instead "drunken football fans celebrating an England win"? Is that better?

Laughable mate, get off the offended bus.
		
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Trust me. I'm not offended. That's a lazy cliche used by people who don't know better. If you ever meet me you'll find that it's almost impossible to offend me &#128077;

You're post was poorly worded and you should just acknowledge that. Some England fans are cockends. As are some Scottish, Irish, Welsh, French, Italian, German etc. 

You do seem to have a perfectly balanced pair of chips regarding the English though. Maybe something you need to consider &#128077;


Oh, and FWIW, my mother is German and my Dad is Irish. Not sure exactly how that fits into your narrative but the downside is I got my humour from the German side and my drinking from both &#129315;


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## KenL (Jul 7, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Waterloo - Also a battle were the English, Prussians and Belgians came together to beat the French. :ears:
		
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When was Waterloo? That may well have been British rather than English ;-)


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 7, 2018)

KenL said:



			When was Waterloo? That may well have been British rather than English ;-)
		
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1974 mate, our entrant was Olivia Newton-John who finished 4th


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 7, 2018)

See the England fans at Clapham Junction are living up to the stereotype nicely. &#128580;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 7, 2018)

Blue in Munich said:



			See the England fans at Clapham Junction are living up to the stereotype nicely. &#128580;
		
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What they done? Nothing on news channels?


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 7, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			What they done? Nothing on news channels?
		
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Mrs BiM found it on Facebook; emptied out into the street the worse for it, climbing onto the roof of an in service double decker bus, then jumped from that onto a bus shelter and went straight through it before wandering off, leaving the fare paying passengers to pick up the bill for the damage. Utter knob.


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## IanM (Jul 8, 2018)

No drunken behaviour in cities on Saturday nights in any other cities then?


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 8, 2018)

IanM said:



			No drunken behaviour in cities on Saturday nights in any other cities then?
		
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Of the nature of what was on this video? I very much doubt it. And it looks like very early evening, not Saturday night.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2018)

Seems an emergency response vehicle was trashed by people â€œcelebratingâ€ in London yesterday


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2018)

I donâ€™t understand why the need to post isolated incidents of morons misbehaving, no one denies we have them.
Ambulance crews were stoned in the midlands recently after being called out to an emergency, these incidents happen up and down the Country every weekend.


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## bluewolf (Jul 8, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			I donâ€™t understand why the need to post isolated incidents of morons misbehaving, no one denies we have them.
Ambulance crews were stoned in the midlands recently after being called out to an emergency, these incidents happen up and down the Country every weekend.
		
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Only in England mate. We're all scum and we should hang our heads in shame.


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## Val (Jul 8, 2018)

Is this world cup thing not done not done yet 

For what it's worth, I see England getting past Croatia but I fancy both France and Belgium are a step above and see the winners being whoever wins that semi.


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## Hobbit (Jul 8, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			I donâ€™t understand why the need to post isolated incidents of morons misbehaving, no one denies we have them.
Ambulance crews were stoned in the midlands recently after being called out to an emergency, these incidents happen up and down the Country every weekend.
		
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There was quite possibly 20 million people supporting England yesterday. I would bet thereâ€™s less than 00001% of them being idiots.

Youtube has pics of how the Spanish police dealt with over exuberance in Benidorm yesterday. Picture how they dealt with the independence rallies in Barca. As well as wielding batons, they also fired shotguns.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2018)

Hobbit said:



			There was quite possibly 20 million people supporting England yesterday. I would bet thereâ€™s less than 00001% of them being idiots.

Youtube has pics of how the Spanish police dealt with over exuberance in Benidorm yesterday. Picture how they dealt with the independence rallies in Barca. As well as wielding batons, they also fired shotguns.

Click to expand...

Plus it was idiotic celebrations that over stepped the mark, it wasnâ€™t just in London, Hull had roads blocked, Nottingham had a car damaged.
Donâ€™t forget the Ikea store were they danced on the beds.
Not excusing any of the bad behaviour, but it wasnâ€™t hooligans on the rampage, it was your normal scumbag.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 8, 2018)

Val said:



			Is this world cup thing not done not done yet 

For what it's worth, I see England getting past Croatia but I fancy both France and Belgium are a step above and see the winners being whoever wins that semi.
		
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Apparently I am a "Little Englander" but I would agree with your prediction for the winner.

Not certain that England will beat Croatia, still there's no harm in hoping.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 8, 2018)

Hobbit said:



			There was quite possibly 20 million people supporting England yesterday. I would bet thereâ€™s less than 00001% of them being idiots.

Youtube has pics of how the Spanish police dealt with over exuberance in Benidorm yesterday. Picture how they dealt with the independence rallies in Barca. As well as wielding batons, they also fired shotguns.

Click to expand...

Spot on. 
No different from the few idiots that support club teams.


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## User62651 (Jul 8, 2018)

Tell you who's more bitter than any Scots re Englands football success  - Englands rugby fans, well some of. Share an office with 3 lads, one's a fellow Jock who's indifferent about football, one a Leeds man who's a rugby league nut and hates football or anything to do with football and other's from Peak District somewhere, has zero interest in football, likes rugby (not sure which code) and seems wholly unaware of the world cup ongoing. Both the English lads just rubbish football as a game for wimps, doesn't matter it's their own country doing well. Surprised at that tbh.
Know nothing of rugby league myself as it's colloquial in the UK but just seems like jealousy of footballs world spread and success.


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## rudebhoy (Jul 8, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			I donâ€™t understand why the need to post isolated incidents of morons misbehaving, no one denies we have them.
Ambulance crews were stoned in the midlands recently after being called out to an emergency, these incidents happen up and down the Country every weekend.
		
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Lancashire Asst Chief Constable tweeted this morning - 

@ACCWoods@ACCWoods


In the last 24hrs we dealt with 2200 incidents the highest on record. Demand surged after the England match predominantly alcohol fuelled violence inclu. domestic & serious assaults.We had planned for this but such a shame this happens.Well done team @LancsPolice for your efforts
​


​
a bit more than "isolated incidents" on a normal weekend ...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			Lancashire Asst Chief Constable tweeted this morning - 

@ACCWoods@ACCWoods


In the last 24hrs we dealt with 2200 incidents the highest on record. Demand surged after the England match predominantly alcohol fuelled violence inclu. domestic & serious assaults.We had planned for this but such a shame this happens.Well done team @LancsPolice for your efforts
​
View attachment 25201

​
a bit more than "isolated incidents" on a normal weekend ...

Click to expand...

Is the above a direct response to the 2 posts I was answering? No

Whatâ€™s your point? Is it any different to these type of incidents rising after an Old Firm game? 

How many more times do I have to agree we have morons and idiots who are English?


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## Lazkir (Jul 8, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			Lancashire Asst Chief Constable tweeted this morning - 

@ACCWoods@ACCWoods


In the last 24hrs we dealt with 2200 incidents the highest on record. Demand surged after the England match predominantly alcohol fuelled violence inclu. domestic & serious assaults.We had planned for this but such a shame this happens.Well done team @LancsPolice for your efforts
​
View attachment 25201

​
a bit more than "isolated incidents" on a normal weekend ...

Click to expand...

This would never happen in Scotland/Wales/Ireland/any other country in the world right?

You really are dredging the bottom of the barrel in order to try and prove your point, but all you've done is prove what we already know about you. 

Well done! :thup:


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## rudebhoy (Jul 8, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Is the above a direct response to the 2 posts I was answering? No

Whatâ€™s your point? Is it any different to these type of incidents rising after an Old Firm game? 

How many more times do I have to agree we have morons and idiots who are English? 

Click to expand...

I posted it in response to a number of comments (not just from you), that there would only be a few isolated incidents, just like any other saturday night, and I was wrong to state things were likely to turn nasty after the game. When the ACC says that they had to deal with a record number of violent incidents, it proves my point.

As for Old Firm games, there is the odd flashpoint, but nothing like this amount of widespread mayhem - over 2000 incidents in one county alone is pretty remarkable.


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## rudebhoy (Jul 8, 2018)

Lazkir said:



			This would never happen in Scotland/Wales/Ireland/any other country in the world right?

You really are dredging the bottom of the barrel in order to try and prove your point, but all you've done is prove what we already know about you. 

Well done! :thup:
		
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see above post. as for scraping barrels, aren't you the one who lobbed in the "racist" card?


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## Sweep (Jul 8, 2018)

Funny how times have changed. I remember being desperate for Scotland to do well in 1974 and 1978 when England failed to qualify. I remember shouting at the TV screen when Bremner et al were playing calypso football against Zaire when I felt they should have been scoring as many as possible to ensure they got out of the group.
I could never understand why the Scots wanted England to fail when England qualified and was amazed when I heard an interview with Dennis Law when he said he hated England winning in 1966.
Now, I would be the same. Anyone except Scotland. (Well maybe not anyone. Letâ€™s say anyone except Scotland, Germany or Argentina). TBH I am not very proud of myself in this regard but I do believe itâ€™s more reactionary than anything else.

If you watch films of the 1966 Final there isnâ€™t a flag of St George to be seen. Itâ€™s all Union Jacks. I used to think it was because everyone thought of England as Britain. But I have grown to realise that we were more together back then. A British nation of four countries. Now we have become cynical and divided. The old days will never return.

Quite sad really.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			I posted it in response to a number of comments (not just from you), that there would only be a few isolated incidents, just like any other saturday night, and I was wrong to state things were likely to turn nasty after the game. When the ACC says that they had to deal with a record number of violent incidents, it proves my point.

As for Old Firm games, there is the odd flashpoint, but nothing like this amount of widespread mayhem - over 2000 incidents in one country alone is pretty remarkable.
		
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Thatâ€™s not what he said, the tweet stated a record number of incidents the majority being alcohol related violence, not a record number of violent incidents.

It proves nothing as we agreed we have a tiny minority of morons in the country.

The Met Police stated they did not see a spike in calls, maybe it was just the Lancashire morons playing up.

2000 incidents will be all incidents, ie absolutely any reason and not all football related.


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## rudebhoy (Jul 8, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Thatâ€™s not what he said, the tweet stated a record number of incidents the majority being alcohol related violence, not a record number of violent incidents.

It proves nothing as we agreed we have a tiny minority of morons in the country.

The Met Police stated they did not see a spike in calls, maybe it was just the Lancashire morons playing up.

2000 incidents will be all incidents, ie absolutely any reason and not all football related.
		
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If you read what the ACC said, it was predominantly alcohol fuelled violence after the football. Why do you think he put a red card with "behave yourself" and a refs whistle on his tweet.

West Midlands Police also reported a record number of incidents, blaming them on a mixture of alcohol, sun and the WC.

Devon and Cornwall Police reported a big spike as well.

Think we can agree that disorder was pretty widespread.

Imagine what it would have been like if England had lost....


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2018)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-44756829

Our local pub had multiple incidents with arrests as well - flares and smoke bombs going off with some people having to go to hospital 

Stabbing as well 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/m.hu...-world-cup-match_uk_5b41f991e4b09e4a8b2e2453/


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			If you read what the ACC said, it was predominantly alcohol fuelled violence after the football. Why do you think he put a red card with "behave yourself" and a refs whistle on his tweet.

West Midlands Police also reported a record number of incidents, blaming them on a mixture of alcohol, sun and the WC.

Devon and Cornwall Police reported a big spike as well.

Think we can agree that disorder was pretty widespread.

Imagine what it would have been like if England had lost....
		
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Itâ€™s still not a record number of violent incidents as you actually posted.

I understand exactly what the Police are saying and I am not sticking up for or justifying the moronic actions of a tiny majority, but you canâ€™t change a quote to suit your agenda.

Please explain yours and other poster points.

Everyone agreed we have idiots who canâ€™t hold their drink.

Posting link after link, which by the way nobody opens, wonâ€™t change our disgust of the tiny minority.

PS Any links to trouble at the festival?


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## Robster59 (Jul 8, 2018)

Anyone remember this?
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...er-news/never-before-seen-images-one-14667382


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-44756829

Our local pub had multiple incidents with arrests as well - flares and smoke bombs going off with some people having to go to hospital 

Stabbing as well 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/m.hu...-world-cup-match_uk_5b41f991e4b09e4a8b2e2453/

Click to expand...

Do you ever read your links?
They received the call for the stabbing during the game! Coincidence or actually football related as the report doesnâ€™t say either way.

The other report also has some Police Authorities stating they had no issues!


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## rudebhoy (Jul 8, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Itâ€™s still not a record number of violent incidents as you actually posted.

I understand exactly what the Police are saying and I am not sticking up for or justifying the moronic actions of a tiny majority, but you canâ€™t change a quote to suit your agenda.

Please explain yours and other poster points.

Everyone agreed we have idiots who canâ€™t hold their drink.

Posting link after link, which by the way nobody opens, wonâ€™t change our disgust of the tiny minority.

PS Any links to trouble at the festival?
		
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Talk about splitting hairs!

The ACC's words "we dealt with 2200 incidents the highest on record. Demand surged after the England match *predominantly alcohol fuelled violence inclu. domestic & serious **assaults*."

so, there was a record amount of incidents, predominantly violent, we agreed on that, yes?

I paraphased ever so slightly, and neither of us have seen a detailed breakdown, but it there was a record number of incidents, the vast majority being violent, then it's a pretty safe bet that would equate to a record number of violent incidents.

you do seem to be clutching at straws here.

as for the festival, I wasn't there and haven't spoken directly to anyone who was, but I have seen on facebook that shop windows in tynemouth were put in early evening, and the owner says it was football fans. Not crime of the century, but does suggest an unpleasant atmosphere, so glad I didn't go.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			Talk about splitting hairs!

The ACC's words "we dealt with 2200 incidents the highest on record. Demand surged after the England match *predominantly alcohol fuelled violence inclu. domestic & serious **assaults*."

so, there was a record amount of incidents, predominantly violent, we agreed on that, yes?

I paraphased ever so slightly, and neither of us have seen a detailed breakdown, but it there was a record number of incidents, the vast majority being violent, then it's a pretty safe bet that would equate to a record number of violent incidents.

you do seem to be clutching at straws here.

as for the festival, I wasn't there and haven't spoken directly to anyone who was, but I have seen on facebook that shop windows in tynemouth were put in early evening, and the owner says it was football fans. Not crime of the century, but does suggest an unpleasant atmosphere, so glad I didn't go.



Click to expand...

England fans have a tiny minority who sre idiotic morons who cause damage, fight, get drunk etc etc, posting it again for the god knows how many times.

You have posted about England fans, a few have questioned your motive and mentioned about tarring everyone with the same brush.

Yes, I accept you paraphrased, but itâ€™s paraphraseing once again to back up your point about England fans in general, just stick to facts or quote directly, that way there is no confusion.

Then you say Iâ€™m splitting hairs! Quality, you couldnâ€™t make it up!

You still havenâ€™t answered the question as to what was the point of once again highlighting the tiny minority misbehaving


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2018)

:thup:


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 8, 2018)

Why can it not be agreed that there are idiots everywhere who will attach themselves to football teams?

Could be national sides or clubs.

Could be alcohol fuelled violence or vile religious bigotry.

Whatever form it takes is despicable but it fortunate remains the minority.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 8, 2018)

6 tonnes of broken glass swept up in Nottingham, a police dog in Dorset abused because itâ€™s a German Shepherd (I donâ€™t know whether to laugh or cry) and idiots trying to trash a Swedish furniture store. Makes you proud to be English, but hey, letâ€™s just dismiss it as an average Saturday night.

The only good good news story that Iâ€™ve seen come out of this is that the Millwall supporters club has started a crowdfunding page to pay for the repairs to the ambulance put out of commission in Borough High Street.

Why do these numpties consider it acceptable to behave like complete and utter cretins just because we won a football match?


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## Lazkir (Jul 8, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			see above post. as for scraping barrels, aren't you the one who lobbed in the "racist" card?
		
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Deleted.

:Edit, you know what...  you're incurable, and I'm not wasting my time on the likes of you... Enjoy your petty racist views. The sad thing is you will never recognise the utter tripe you post for what it is, enjoy!


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 8, 2018)

MetalMickie said:



			Why can it not be agreed that there are idiots everywhere who will attach themselves to football teams?

Could be national sides or clubs.

Could be alcohol fuelled violence or vile religious bigotry.

Whatever form it takes is despicable but it fortunate remains the minority.
		
Click to expand...

I can agree that it is idiots attaching themselves to a football team; England.

Iâ€™ve been to numerous cup finals, most home, a couple abroad and numerous football matches both as a fan and in a professional capacity; the levels of disorder are considerably worse when England are involved. 

Whilst some might not like the way rudebhoy made his original post, I have to say that as far as Iâ€™m concerned he has a valid point. Yes, itâ€™s still a minority but a considerably larger minority when England are involved.


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## Hobbit (Jul 8, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			Lancashire Asst Chief Constable tweeted this morning - 

@ACCWoods@ACCWoods


In the last 24hrs we dealt with 2200 incidents the highest on record. Demand surged after the England match predominantly alcohol fuelled violence inclu. domestic & serious assaults.We had planned for this but such a shame this happens.Well done team @LancsPolice for your efforts
​
View attachment 25201

​
a bit more than "isolated incidents" on a normal weekend ...

Click to expand...

What he doesnâ€™t say is that typically there are, say, 1500 incidents on a normal Saturday night. 

By by saying there were 2200 incidents following the match he is clouding the numbers. There might have only been 200 related to the match. And in a county the size of Lancashire. Câ€™mon, letâ€™s have a bit of perspective rather than the sensational headlines.


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## Lazkir (Jul 8, 2018)

Blue in Munich said:



			I can agree that it is idiots attaching themselves to a football team; England.

Iâ€™ve been to numerous cup finals, most home, a couple abroad and numerous football matches both as a fan and in a professional capacity; the levels of disorder are considerably worse when England are involved. 

Whilst some might not like the way rudebhoy made his original post, I have to say that as far as Iâ€™m concerned he has a valid point. Yes, itâ€™s still a minority but a considerably larger minority when England are involved.
		
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I remember a certain bunch of people that ripped up the turf at Wembley. They also snapped the goalposts and caused general mayhem around the ground. 
But I never held the country where they came from for their misdemeanours, I just attributed it to a few morons that got over excited whilst drunk.
Maybe I was wrong and I should have blamed the whole of Scotland for their behaviour?


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## SocketRocket (Jul 8, 2018)

Blue in Munich said:



			6 tonnes of broken glass swept up in Nottingham, a police dog in Dorset abused because itâ€™s a German Shepherd (I donâ€™t know whether to laugh or cry) and idiots trying to trash a Swedish furniture store. Makes you proud to be English, but hey, letâ€™s just dismiss it as an average Saturday night.

The only good good news story that Iâ€™ve seen come out of this is that the Millwall supporters club has started a crowdfunding page to pay for the repairs to the ambulance put out of commission in Borough High Street.

Why do these numpties consider it acceptable to behave like complete and utter cretins just because we won a football match?
		
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When was there a time when such people did not exist and it's not an English issue 

[h=3]*Peter the Hermit, 11th Century*[/h] â€œThe young people of today think of nothing but  themselves. They have no respect for their parents or old age. They are  impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they alone know everything  and what passes for wisdom in us foolishness in them. As for the girls,  they are foolish and immodest and unwomanly in speech, behavior, and  dress.â€


[h=3]*Seneca, 1st Century AD*[/h] â€œOur young men have grown slothful. There is not a single  honorable occupation for which they will toil night and day. They sing  and dance and grow effeminate and curl their hair and learn womanish  tricks of speech; they are as languid as women and deck themselves out  with unbecoming ornaments. Without strength, without energy, they add  nothing during life to the gifts with which they were born â€” then they  complain of their lot.â€


[h=3]*Plato, 5th century BC*[/h] â€œOur youth have an insatiable desire for wealth; they  have bad manners and atrocious customs regarding dressing and their hair  and what garments or shoes they wear.â€


[h=3]*Socrates, 5th century BC*[/h] â€œThe children now love luxury. They have bad manners,  contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love to  chatter in place of exercise.â€


[h=3]*Hesiod, 8th Century BC*[/h] â€œI see no hope for the future of our people if they are  dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are  reckless beyond words. When I was young, we were taught to be discreet  and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly  disrespectful and impatient of restraint.â€


[h=3]*Assyrian Clay Tablet, 2800 BC*[/h] â€œOur Earth is degenerate in these later days; there are  signs that the world is speedily coming to an end; bribery and  corruption are common; children no longer obey their parents; every man  wants to write a book and the end of the world is evidently  approaching.â€​


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2018)

Blue in Munich said:



			I can agree that it is idiots attaching themselves to a football team; England.

Iâ€™ve been to numerous cup finals, most home, a couple abroad and numerous football matches both as a fan and in a professional capacity; the levels of disorder are considerably worse when England are involved. 

Whilst some might not like the way rudebhoy made his original post, I have to say that as far as Iâ€™m concerned he has a valid point. Yes, itâ€™s still a minority but a considerably larger minority when England are involved.
		
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But nobody has denied or said anything different, weâ€™ve acknowledged we have the idiots, but to stay at home because the concert maybe spoilt is rubbish, I live near the venue, absolutely no reported incidents, everybody saying on fbook/twitter etc what a wonderful night they had.
As youâ€™ve put, youâ€™ve got far more experience than most if not all on here, have you not experienced the good as well?
Iâ€™ve certainly seen both sides of England fans and to the majority we are public enemy no1, just not all of us.


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## rudebhoy (Jul 8, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			England fans have a tiny minority who sre idiotic morons who cause damage, fight, get drunk etc etc, posting it again for the god knows how many times.

You have posted about England fans, a few have questioned your motive and mentioned about tarring everyone with the same brush.

Yes, I accept you paraphrased, but itâ€™s paraphraseing once again to back up your point about England fans in general, just stick to facts or quote directly, that way there is no confusion.

Then you say Iâ€™m splitting hairs! Quality, you couldnâ€™t make it up!

You still havenâ€™t answered the question as to what was the point of once again highlighting the tiny minority misbehaving
		
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I have never once said it is all England fans, if you think I have, please show me where. 

As for why I posted the quote from the ACC, I already explained that. I said yesterday there was likely to be trouble after the match. Despite being told I was being racist etc etc, I was proved right. The BBC and the national press have went to town on it, are they anti English as well?


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## rudebhoy (Jul 8, 2018)

Hobbit said:



			What he doesnâ€™t say is that typically there are, say, 1500 incidents on a normal Saturday night. 

By by saying there were 2200 incidents following the match he is clouding the numbers. There might have only been 200 related to the match. And in a county the size of Lancashire. Câ€™mon, letâ€™s have a bit of perspective rather than the sensational headlines.
		
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It was the Asst Chief Constable who tweeted and pointed the finger at football fans. Is he guilty of sensationalism? West Midlands Police did the same btw.


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## rudebhoy (Jul 8, 2018)

Lazkir said:



			Deleted.

:Edit, you know what...  you're incurable, and I'm not wasting my time on the likes of you... Enjoy your petty racist views. The sad thing is you will never recognise the utter tripe you post for what it is, enjoy!
		
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While I may disagree with some of the posters on here, at least we can have a reasonably adult conversation. You are the exception. If all you can do is throw insults like that around, then itâ€™s futile even engaging with you. Feel free to call me all the nasty names you like, I wonâ€™t be responding.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			I have never once said it is all England fans, if you think I have, please show me where. 

As for why I posted the quote from the ACC, I already explained that. I said yesterday there was likely to be trouble after the match. Despite being told I was being racist etc etc, I was proved right. The BBC and the national press have went to town on it, are they anti English as well?
		
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Just read your first post, tried straight away to explain as did 4-5 others. You said â€œEngland Fansâ€
Anyway, I agree some, a very tiny minority who are embarrassing and the scum of the earth, England fans need locking up.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 8, 2018)

From the outside looking in it seems like it is a minority of England fans at tournaments who cause trouble, but still a sizeable minority up until this tournament.

Banning orders, surrendering of passports, increased intelligence (the police, not the fans), long prison sentences and more have contributed to this.

However, and again from the outside looking in, can people honestly say that back in the 70's and 80's that the MAJORITY of England fans werent looking to get involved in trouble back then?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2018)

Liverbirdie said:



			From the outside looking in it seems like it is a minority of England fans at tournaments who cause trouble, but still a sizeable minority up until this tournament.

Banning orders, surrendering of passports, increased intelligence (the police, not the fans), long prison sentences and more have contributed to this.

However, and again from the outside looking in, can people honestly say that back in the 70's and 80's that the MAJORITY of England fans werent looking to get involved in trouble back then?
		
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In the 70â€™s & 80â€™s Iâ€™d argue some of that behaviour started with the English Clubs first and spread to the national side, I can remember the fighting amongst themselves, it was almost a badge of honour to be involved.


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## rudebhoy (Jul 8, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Just read your first post, tried straight away to explain as did 4-5 others. You said â€œEngland Fansâ€
Anyway, I agree some, a very tiny minority who are embarrassing and the scum of the earth, England fans need locking up.
		
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I never said â€œall England fans â€œ, and when you interpreted it as that, I made it clear I was talking about a minority, not sure why you are persisting with your original interpretation when I have said a number of times on this thread itâ€™s a minority I was on about.


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## Slab (Jul 9, 2018)

Guys I know you know this but youâ€™re going back & forth over semantics

It is a â€˜minorityâ€™
Its probably a â€˜tiny minorityâ€™
It might even be a â€˜very tiny minorityâ€™

But how many nutters does it take to spoil (even ruin) a night out (or bus commute) for say 50 or 100 people?â€¦ just one!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 9, 2018)

Blue in Munich said:



			Yes, itâ€™s still a minority but a considerably larger minority when England are involved.
		
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But that is inevitable as, due to the relative populations, they are the team who will attract the biggest following in the UK.

Many of those watching in pubs and fan parks will not usually be that bothered about football. 

And some of them will then go and get themselves involved in the hooligan behaviour


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 9, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			I never said â€œall England fans â€œ, and when you interpreted it as that, I made it clear I was talking about a minority, not sure why you are persisting with your original interpretation when I have said a number of times on this thread itâ€™s a minority I was on about.
		
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Now you ask why Iâ€™m persisting with the original interpretation, Iâ€™m not, Iâ€™m answering the question you asked and explsining were the confusion started.


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## rudebhoy (Jul 9, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Now you ask why Iâ€™m persisting with the original interpretation, Iâ€™m not, Iâ€™m answering the question you asked and explsining were the confusion started.
		
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ok, fair enough!


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 9, 2018)

Thing's like this don't help.

https://twitter.com/Digbylj/status/1015567390116073478

What an utter fool, BTW Nicola did wish England well, a fact that seemed to by pass the dishonourable Lord.

Begs the question, why to England football fans crave the support of the other home nation countries.

Oh and whilst I am at it England borrowing the British national anthem as they do not have one of their own is a bit lazy/arrogant.

Good to see the England fans have finally stopped wearing/waving Union flag stuff though


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## MegaSteve (Jul 9, 2018)

Liverbirdie said:



			However, and again from the outside looking in, can people honestly say that back in the 70's and 80's that the MAJORITY of England fans werent looking to get involved in trouble back then?
		
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Many?  Perhaps...
Too many?  One is too many...

MAJORITY?  Sorry, not having that at all...


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## MegaSteve (Jul 9, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Thing's like this don't help.

https://twitter.com/Digbylj/status/1015567390116073478

What an utter fool, BTW Nicola did wish England well, a fact that seemed to by pass the dishonourable Lord.

Begs the question, why to England football fans crave the support of the other home nation countries.

Oh and whilst I am at it England borrowing the British national anthem as they do not have one of their own is a bit lazy/arrogant.

Good to see the England fans have finally stopped wearing/waving Union flag stuff though
		
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'We' don't "crave" your support, at all, in any shape or form...
Could do without your wishes of malevolence though...

However, one of my secret pleasures is hearing the metaphorical thunderclap, of chins hitting chests, of Team ABE :thup:...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 9, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Thing's like this don't help.

https://twitter.com/Digbylj/status/1015567390116073478

What an utter fool, BTW Nicola did wish England well, a fact that seemed to by pass the dishonourable Lord.

Begs the question, why to England football fans crave the support of the other home nation countries.

Oh and whilst I am at it England borrowing the British national anthem as they do not have one of their own is a bit lazy/arrogant.

Good to see the England fans have finally stopped wearing/waving Union flag stuff though
		
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Nor do posts like this help:

We donâ€™t crave your support, infact donâ€™t care.

We havenâ€™t borrowed the National Anthem it is the National Anthem of the UK which we are proud to be part of and unlike yourselves and the Welsh donâ€™t see a need for a seperate one.

Again the Flag is something we are proud of, it contains the St Georges Cross and have no bitterness towards using it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 9, 2018)

I guess not all English Hooligans are white or male!


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 9, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Nor do posts like this help:

We donâ€™t crave your support, infact donâ€™t care.

We havenâ€™t borrowed the National Anthem it is the National Anthem of the UK which we are proud to be part of and unlike yourselves and the Welsh donâ€™t see a need for a seperate one.

Again the Flag is something we are proud of, it contains the St Georges Cross and have no bitterness towards using it.
		
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But the UK are not playing at the World Cup...â€¦..England are.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 9, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			But the UK are not playing at the World Cup...â€¦..England are.
		
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And it only seems a problem for a few Scotsmen. :thup:


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 9, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			And it only seems a problem for a few Scotsmen. :thup:
		
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I do not understand your reply.
What has it to do with the Scots.
It is not a British [united] team playing in Russia it is England.
Fans singing Rule Britania and GSTQ seems like a very strange choice..


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## Don Barzini (Jul 9, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			Imagine what it would have been like if England had lost....
		
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If you're truly concerned by that, you should be hoping we win in future then! 



Doon frae Troon said:



			Begs the question, why to England  football fans crave the support of the other home nation  countries.
		
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As others have said, we don't crave it - we're just a bit confused by  the passionate support of ABE by a section of Scottish folk. Especially  since we don't support ABS in return. Many of us (myself included) have  and would cheer on the other home nations at football and other sports.

I  asked the question early on in this thread about why it happens by the  Scots. I've heard nothing here so far which is anything more than an  excuse for some other underlying inherent dislike tbh.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 9, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I do not understand your reply.
What has it to do with the Scots.
It is not a British [united] team playing in Russia it is England.
Fans singing Rule Britania and GSTQ seems like a very strange choice..
		
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Whoâ€™s brought the subject up?
Iâ€™ve not seen one Englishman complain or have an issue, 
What was played for the Scottish team last time they were at the World Cup finals.
Our National Anthem is also the UK National Anthem just like the other 15+ Commonwealth countries.


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## User20205 (Jul 9, 2018)

This is probably one of the worst threads I can ever remember on GM. Arguing about who the Scottish should support?? Really. Who cares? 
In other news....drunk people act like dicks....shocker. There must be some that start early on here.


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## User20205 (Jul 9, 2018)

MegaSteve said:



			'We' don't "crave" your support, at all, in any shape or form...
Could do without your wishes of malevolence though...

However, one of my secret pleasures is hearing the metaphorical thunderclap, of chins hitting chests, of Team ABE :thup:...
		
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This doesnâ€™t work. You canâ€™t hear a metaphorical thunderclap. Can a chin even make a thunderclap??? 
You can metaphorically hear a metaphorical thunderclap, but then thatâ€™s all in your head, which means youâ€™re  mental


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## IanM (Jul 9, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Fans singing Rule Britania and GSTQ seems like a very strange choice..
		
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England fans in "_singing their National Anthem_" shocker!   :whoo:


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## tugglesf239 (Jul 9, 2018)

This threads cringeworthy. Ha ha 

Iâ€™m a Scotsman. Live in England and my children are half English. 

The only reason that I donâ€™t want England to win a peep, is because they will never shut up about it. Ever, ever again 

The English are not the worst for hooliganisim. Thatâ€™s a farce. 

What they are though are the most irritating nation on Earth when it comes to bragging about past glories. ðŸ˜‰

Worse still are the TV pundit lot that were actually discussing putting a new statue outside Wembley during the win over the swedes ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

The presumption levels on the telly far outweighs the realistic thoughts of your average England fan itâ€™s comical. 

I hope the England team do well as itâ€™s nice that the country has somthing to cheer about. the lads in the team seem a decent bunch and honestly Gareth Southgate deserves a redemption. 

After all the way that â€˜you lotâ€™ treated him after the missed Pen was pretty appalling. 

Bet heâ€™s loving this at the mo.ðŸ˜

So I hope you do ok. I hope everyone has a good time. 

Then I hope you get dumped out ASAP 

Because I canâ€™t listen to this for the rest of my adult life. Dear god the thought of it sends shivers down my spine. ðŸ˜‚


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## Don Barzini (Jul 9, 2018)

tugglesf239 said:



			After all the way that â€˜you lotâ€™ treated him after the missed Pen was pretty appalling.
		
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Out of interest, how did "us lot" treat him after the missed pen? 

I certainly don't remember him coming in for much backlash and vitriol. He got a gig doing a Pizza Hut advert on the back of it as well.


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## User62651 (Jul 9, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			I guess not all English Hooligans are white or male!

View attachment 25211

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Rita Ora should know better!:smirk:


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## MegaSteve (Jul 9, 2018)

therod said:



			... which means youâ€™re  mental 

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Can't think of any good reasons to disagree with that ...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 9, 2018)

tugglesf239 said:



			This threads cringeworthy. Ha ha 

Iâ€™m a Scotsman. Live in England and my children are half English. 

The only reason that I donâ€™t want England to win a peep, is because they will never shut up about it. Ever, ever again 

The English are not the worst for hooliganisim. Thatâ€™s a farce. 

What they are though are the most irritating nation on Earth when it comes to bragging about past glories. ðŸ˜‰

Worse still are the TV pundit lot that were actually discussing putting a new statue outside Wembley during the win over the swedes ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

The presumption levels on the telly far outweighs the realistic thoughts of your average England fan itâ€™s comical. 

I hope the England team do well as itâ€™s nice that the country has somthing to cheer about. the lads in the team seem a decent bunch and honestly Gareth Southgate deserves a redemption. 

After all the way that â€˜you lotâ€™ treated him after the missed Pen was pretty appalling. 

Bet heâ€™s loving this at the mo.ðŸ˜

So I hope you do ok. I hope everyone has a good time. 

Then I hope you get dumped out ASAP 

Because I canâ€™t listen to this for the rest of my adult life. Dear god the thought of it sends shivers down my spine. ðŸ˜‚
		
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I wish youâ€™d of posted this straight after Cabbyâ€™s opening post, it would of saved a lot heads being banged against a wall. Cheers.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 9, 2018)

Don Barzini said:



			Out of interest, how did "us lot" treat him after the missed pen? 

I certainly don't remember him coming in for much backlash and vitriol. He got a gig doing a Pizza Hut advert on the back of it as well.
		
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Mate, letâ€™s be honest, he did get some stick from some people, even Henderson was getting stick the other night when we won, idiots of all nationalities come out the woodwork at times.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 9, 2018)

MegaSteve said:



			Many?  Perhaps...
Too many?  One is too many...

MAJORITY?  Sorry, not having that at all...
		
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Have you seen footage from Marseilles when England were there in 1998, Germany, and many many other occasions. 

Literally, thousands rioting and for large parts of the day. Lets face it they even used to fight with each other as rival firms used to fight with each other on "England duty".


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## Robster59 (Jul 9, 2018)

In reply to the original post, and some of the other posters on this thread, I'm now strongly leaning towards envy *and* jealousy as well as resentment.
A lot of these posters would be delighted to see England fail and would be the first to whoop and cheer if we had got knocked out at the group stage.  
But it's not just International.  I remember seeing Liverpool fans cheer when Man United got beaten in a European game.  I was gobsmacked but not being an out and out football fan, maybe I don't understand. 
For me I'd support any British team.  OK I'm a Rugby League fan and given the way my team is playing at the moment most are better than us but I'd still (just, I admit) support one of the others in the World Club challenge vs an Aussie team.


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## tugglesf239 (Jul 9, 2018)

Don Barzini said:



			Out of interest, how did "us lot" treat him after the missed pen? 

I certainly don't remember him coming in for much backlash and vitriol. He got a gig doing a Pizza Hut advert on the back of it as well.
		
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I think I put enough winks and smileys in my post to Indicate that there was some friendly ribbing going on pal. 

Donâ€™t be so sensitive. Typical of you lot that...

Just you enjoy the football, cheer on the lads and then work out your next national scapegoat. ðŸ˜‰

I hear David Batty and Chris Waddle are available.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 9, 2018)

Liverbirdie said:



			Have you seen footage from Marseilles when England were there in 1998, Germany, and many many other occasions. 

Literally, thousands rioting and for large parts of the day. Lets face it they even used to fight with each other as rival firms used to fight with each other on "England duty".
		
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And, you have to temper that with the many other occasions there wasn't any...


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## Imurg (Jul 9, 2018)

maxfli65 said:



			Rita Ora should know better!:smirk:
		
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So should Charley Hull...&#128513;&#128513;


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 9, 2018)

Nothing whatsoever to do with this thread but perhaps it may bring some perspective back. This was posted on twitter today.

_Superhero does not wear cape, they wear scuba tanks
_


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 9, 2018)

Don Barzini said:



			Out of interest, how did "us lot" treat him after the missed pen? 

I certainly don't remember him coming in for much backlash and vitriol. He got a gig doing a Pizza Hut advert on the back of it as well.
		
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I remember....he was treated very badly by the media and fans.
Same as he was when his appointment as England manager was announced.

Some folk have short/selective memories.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 9, 2018)

I remember it well...

"England's chances have just left via the South Gate"...

And, that's just about it...
Oh, and the already mentioned pizza commercial...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 9, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I remember....he was treated very badly by the media and fans.
Same as he was when his appointment as England manager was announced.

Some folk have short/selective memories.
		
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Unlike some of you who remember battles from hundreds and hundreds of years ago :rofl:


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## Don Barzini (Jul 9, 2018)

tugglesf239 said:



			I think I put enough winks and smileys in my post to Indicate that there was some friendly ribbing going on pal.
		
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Yeah I didn't take any offence to your post whatsoever. I was simply asking a genuine question about how (you think) he was treated, since you mentioned it. 

I genuinely don't think Southgate suffered a terrible backlash. (Unlike Beckham after WC '98, for example).


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## MegaSteve (Jul 9, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Nothing whatsoever to do with this thread but perhaps it may bring some perspective back. This was posted on twitter today.

_Superhero does not wear cape, they wear scuba tanks
_





Click to expand...

Well pleased to see the Superhero's are back in action today...
Wishing them all well for achieving a fully positive outcome...


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 9, 2018)

MegaSteve said:



			And, you have to temper that with the many other occasions there wasn't any...
		
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Erm, there werent many, fella.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 9, 2018)

Liverbirdie said:



			Erm, there werent many, fella.
		
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Enough for me not to feel it necessary to tar an entire group of folk on the back of hugely typical media reporting...
They've never [or very rarely], in my memory, sought out or reported on the positives...
It just doesn't fit with their curriculum...


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 9, 2018)

MegaSteve said:



			Enough for me not to feel it necessary to tar an entire group of folk on the back of hugely typical media reporting...
They've never [or very rarely], in my memory, sought out or reported on the positives...
It just doesn't fit with their curriculum...
		
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Listen I've followed Liverpool all over Europe on more than 30 occasions.

I've seen bizzies instigate trouble for no reason at all.

Ive also seen Liverpool fans start and cause trouble with no excuses needed. 

In the 80's there were hundreds, and possibly even more who would cause or get sucked into trouble. These days it is a small minority, but back then it was a very sizeable minority. I'm not trying to dress it up.

Admittedly most of what I know of England's trouble was via seeing the news, or knowing the odd person who went or have spoke to since.

No doubt, some of it may have been caused by the locals, bizzies, but you know what I'm still sure that most of it was caused by England fans hell-bent on trouble - unless you have personal experience that 80% of the time it was others........

So what do you know? I can only presume you were there on many occasions, your quite naive, or always feel that they were being picked on, or tell me what you do know.

Am I talking ALL England fans - The armchair fans, the ones who only went to home games - no, but I am talking the ones who went to terrorise Europe.

Dublin, Marseille, Belgium, and many, many, many more.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 9, 2018)

Liverbirdie said:



			Listen I've followed Liverpool all over Europe on more than 30 occasions.

I've seen bizzies instigate trouble for no reason at all.

Ive also seen Liverpool fans start and cause trouble with no excuses needed. 

In the 80's there were hundreds, and possibly even more who would cause or get sucked into trouble. These days it is a small minority, but back then it was a very sizeable minority. I'm not trying to dress it up.

Admittedly most of what I know of England's trouble was via seeing the news, or knowing the odd person who went or have spoke to since.

No doubt, some of it may have been caused by the locals, bizzies, but you know what I'm still sure that most of it was caused by England fans hell-bent on trouble - unless you have personal experience that 80% of the time it was others........

So what do you know? I can only presume you were there on many occasions, your quite naive, or always feel that they were being picked on, or tell me what you do know.

Am I talking ALL England fans - The armchair fans, the ones who only went to home games - no, but I am talking the ones who went to terrorise Europe.

Dublin, Marseille, Belgium, and many, many, many more.
		
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My own experiences of being on 'England duty' are relatively limited... Mostly attending just down the road [I live 20mins from Wembley]â€¦ I do my drinking local and time my arrival, at the match, for as late as possible... Thereby usually missing any agg outside the ground [if any]... In the good [bad] old days did do the home internationals [though I don't count that as going abroad] and it could/did often kick off... But I am going fifty/fifty on that as it generally takes two to tango...

Now my dear old FinL did quite a bit/lot of 'England duty' and he and his muckers were the furthest you could get from describing as hooli'sâ€¦ None of  them ever wore team shirts so's not to attract attention and often travelled with official groups... About the only scrape I can recollect him admitting getting into was getting ambushed by local plod in Holland [might of been Belgium] when he was with a largish group in the town square... It was early and they were lunching rather than drinking but plod still saw fit to wade in... He did, on return to blighty, try and sort out some recompense or an apology but got stonewalled... Semi official line being it goes with the territory of being a footie fan...


There were times, I think, he was ashamed of his fellow supporters but felt they were, in general, no worse/better than fans of other national teams...


Gosh that's more than I've written, in one go on here ever I think...


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## AmandaJR (Jul 9, 2018)

My one and only experience of travelling abroad to watch England was terrifying. Euros 1988 in Germany. We were rubbish! Anyhow, my boyfriend and I were new to the "scene" and quite quickly a lovely bunch of lads from Bolton looked after us. Didn't see much trouble until after the final group game. Rumour had it that the locals were out for a scrap as a number of England fans had gone home in abject misery. After the game we ran a gauntlet trying to get back to our campsite. Two of the Bolton lads suddenly said "cross with us now" and the four of us broke from the bigger group which saved us a battering. Every street corner had lads with baseball bats looking for any willing victim that was English. I'd been shopping that day (retail therapy!) and bought some shorts and a t-shirt as was advised not to wear an England shirt. The group we were with kept saying "flipping heck girl you look like a Kraut!" and I guess I did as the four of us managed to get back to the campsite unscathed. The others finally arrived in dribs and drabs and a few had been attacked. The rumour was they were going to target the campsites so we stayed awake with the tent hook hammer close by.

We came home the next day despite having 4 semi-final and 2 final tickets.

I think we have our share of shameless yobs but would argue that many other nations have the same share. The fans we met and especially those that looked after us were some of the nicest people I've ever met - sadly they don't get any media attention!


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 9, 2018)

MegaSteve said:



			My own experiences of being on 'England duty' are relatively limited... Mostly attending just down the road [I live 20mins from Wembley]â€¦ I do my drinking local and time my arrival, at the match, for as late as possible... Thereby usually missing any agg outside the ground [if any]... In the good [bad] old days did do the home internationals [though I don't count that as going abroad] and it could/did often kick off... But I am going fifty/fifty on that as it generally takes two to tango...

Now my dear old FinL did quite a bit/lot of 'England duty' and he and his muckers were the furthest you could get from describing as hooli'sâ€¦ None of  them ever wore team shirts so's not to attract attention and often travelled with official groups... About the only scrape I can recollect him admitting getting into was getting ambushed by local plod in Holland [might of been Belgium] when he was with a largish group in the town square... It was early and they were lunching rather than drinking but plod still saw fit to wade in... He did, on return to blighty, try and sort out some recompense or an apology but got stonewalled... Semi official line being it goes with the territory of being a footie fan...


There were times, I think, he was ashamed of his fellow supporters but felt they were, in general, no worse/better than fans of other national teams...


Gosh that's more than I've written, in one go on here ever I think...
		
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AmandaJR said:



			My one and only experience of travelling abroad to watch England was terrifying. Euros 1988 in Germany. We were rubbish! Anyhow, my boyfriend and I were new to the "scene" and quite quickly a lovely bunch of lads from Bolton looked after us. Didn't see much trouble until after the final group game. Rumour had it that the locals were out for a scrap as a number of England fans had gone home in abject misery. After the game we ran a gauntlet trying to get back to our campsite. Two of the Bolton lads suddenly said "cross with us now" and the four of us broke from the bigger group which saved us a battering. Every street corner had lads with baseball bats looking for any willing victim that was English. I'd been shopping that day (retail therapy!) and bought some shorts and a t-shirt as was advised not to wear an England shirt. The group we were with kept saying "flipping heck girl you look like a Kraut!" and I guess I did as the four of us managed to get back to the campsite unscathed. The others finally arrived in dribs and drabs and a few had been attacked. The rumour was they were going to target the campsites so we stayed awake with the tent hook hammer close by.

We came home the next day despite having 4 semi-final and 2 final tickets.

I think we have our share of shameless yobs but would argue that many other nations have the same share. The fans we met and especially those that looked after us were some of the nicest people I've ever met - sadly they don't get any media attention!
		
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As  football fan, I would never say all, but I still reckon  England had thousands of loons following them back then.

No doubt, it wasnt always England that started every incident, but you have to look at the historical perspective of it. Generally, England (and English clubs) were the first ones to mob up and had it most of their own way throughout the 70's as most Europeans hadnt mobbed up in an organised mass, and they didnt travel in the large numbers that English and Scottish club and int'l teams had. Taking on the English mobs was a badge of honour for them, and in some ways what the Russians did in France was the chickens coming home to roost.

There is a reason its called the English disease, and its because we generally had free reign for years until the mid to late 80's when the Dutch, German  and Italians started to rival us and also become more organised. It can be a myth that hooligans only target other mobs, so genuinely feel for all others who get caught up in it.  

No matter, England fans were a scourge and an embarassment in general for many years. I went to 5-6 Euro 96 games, and of them 2-3 were England games were at Wembley and I really enjoyed them. Would I follow England away though - not for me.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 9, 2018)

MegaSteve said:



			Gosh that's more than I've written, in one go on here ever I think...
		
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I have that effect on people....


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## IanM (Jul 10, 2018)

A group of my mates have been there since week one.  They are having a great time, no hint of trouble.  Putin has clearly "had a word"


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