# Confused about shafts - Project X and Rifle....



## Snelly (Jul 13, 2012)

Is Project X 5.5 the same as Rifle 5.5 in terms of steel iron shafts? 

Anyone know?


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## GreiginFife (Jul 13, 2012)

Snelly, according to Royal Precision's website these are two distinct products. 

http://www.royalprecision.com/royalprecision/rifle.asp

http://www.royalprecision.com/royalprecision/projectx.asp


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## DaveM (Jul 13, 2012)

Think we had this before? From what I can remember. The rifle were a tad softer than project X. But don't take that as gosple, maybe the other way round sorry. Guess you know who will be along with the right answer, before long.


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## Snelly (Jul 13, 2012)

Thanks both.

A bit more digging points to yes, they are two different products and 5.5 Project X being roughly the same as Rifle 6.0.  If that is, you believe what you read on American forums on golf shafts! Those lads must be exceptionally good golfers because they don't half spend a lot of time, effort and cash on shafts with all kinds of complex labels!  Nippon, matched, KBS, soft stepped, taper tipped, C tips etc.  All alien to me but I know what I want and it is shafts that are the same or similar to my friend's Razr irons (5.5 Project X).  

I was asking the question specifically as I am looking for Razr Tour or AP2 irons and they come with Project X and Rifle shafts respectively.

I never knew things had become so complicated!


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## GreiginFife (Jul 13, 2012)

Things got complicated a long time ago mate. I love all the shaft discussions, I can add nowt to them other than to say my clubs have shafts, I swing them and hit the ball - the ball goes.
Hardstepped, softstepped - WTF? Mine are steel and quite hard, steel is hard, I though it was one of it's main properties and why it's so popular...

Anyway, that's about as much as I know - about as much as I do about ball flight laws... Do I care? Take a guess  :thup:


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## Snelly (Jul 13, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			Things got complicated a long time ago mate. I love all the shaft discussions, I can add nowt to them other than to say my clubs have shafts, I swing them and hit the ball - the ball goes.
Hardstepped, softstepped - WTF? Mine are steel and quite hard, steel is hard, I though it was one of it's main properties and why it's so popular...

Anyway, that's about as much as I know - about as much as I do about ball flight laws... Do I care? Take a guess  :thup:
		
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All sorted now.  Am now the proud owner of Mizuno MP-62's in Black Nickel with PX 5.5 shafts. 

Quite excited as in 25 years of playing golf, I have never owned a set of Mizuno irons before.


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## GreiginFife (Jul 13, 2012)

Snelly said:



			All sorted now.  Am now the proud owner of Mizuno MP-62's in Black Nickel with PX 5.5 shafts. 

Quite excited as in 25 years of playing golf, I have never owned a set of Mizuno irons before.
		
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62s are really lovely mate, you will love Mizzies (not saying that as a Mizzy whore - they just are superb clubs). 
Did you get a good deal on them?


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## Snelly (Jul 13, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			Did you get a good deal on them?
		
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No - robbed blind by RickG! 

Only kidding - yes an excellent deal thanks.  :thup: Both parties happy..


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## GreiginFife (Jul 13, 2012)

Snelly said:



			No - robbed blind by RickG! 

Only kidding - yes an excellent deal thanks.  :thup: Both parties happy..
		
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RickG is like a pro shop... everyone's gear will soon have originated with him


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## Minhoca (Jul 13, 2012)

Snelly said:



			All sorted now.  Am now the proud owner of Mizuno MP-62's in Black Nickel with PX 5.5 shafts. 

Quite excited as in 25 years of playing golf, I have never owned a set of Mizuno irons before.
		
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Good man :thup: Once you've had mizzy forged there's no going back!


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## Snelly (Jul 13, 2012)

Hope not.  It has been over 10 years since I got new irons. Quite excited.


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## Ethan (Jul 13, 2012)

I had a set of those 62s in black nickel once. 

On the shaft question there are a number of differences. Rifles are frequency matched so their flex (based on frequency at least) is pretty consistent and plays a shade softer than TT DG S300. Project X are a different type of shaft designed to play very solid and boardy. They are not frequency matched so are a bit more variable within and between sets. PX play about 0.5 firmer than the equivalent Rifle. PX flighted are different again and play softer than PX, similar to Rifle.


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## One Planer (Jul 13, 2012)

Good choice Snelly.

I moved to Mizzy from TM and the feel from the Grain Flow Forging is something else.

Hope you like them fella :thup:

I'm Just about to start a thread in the "Ask the Experts" section about shafts.


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## rickg (Jul 13, 2012)

Ethan said:



			I had a set of those 62s in black nickel once.
		
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They're doing the rounds Ethan........I passed them on to Snelly for the same price I paid you as I never used them..........Somehow, I think Snelly will hold onto them a bit longer than I did.....he'll certainly hit them better!!!.......they are gorgeous clubs to look at and were my second set of MP62's........hopefully the last as well!!!!!


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## DaveM (Jul 13, 2012)

Snelly said:



			All sorted now. Am now the proud owner of Mizuno MP-62's in Black Nickel with PX 5.5 shafts. 

Quite excited as in 25 years of playing golf, I have never owned a set of Mizuno irons before.
		
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Enjoy them. Think you will have them for the next 10 years. I'm still pondering a set of 59's with Nippon 950 shafts in. Oh they are so nice.


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## Snelly (Jul 13, 2012)

Ethan said:



			I had a set of those 62s in black nickel once. 

On the shaft question there are a number of differences. Rifles are frequency matched so their flex (based on frequency at least) is pretty consistent and plays a shade softer than TT DG S300. Project X are a different type of shaft designed to play very solid and boardy. They are not frequency matched so are a bit more variable within and between sets. PX play about 0.5 firmer than the equivalent Rifle. PX flighted are different again and play softer than PX, similar to Rifle.
		
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Thanks for that.  Which are the shafts in the clubs that you sold to Rick? Not that it matters too much.  I am sure they will be lovely and I am a man of my word too.


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## MadAdey (Jul 13, 2012)

My last 3 sets of irons have had Rifle shafts and I love them. Compared to hitting mates clubs that have TT DG shafts mine just feel so much nicer when you strike the ball and the trajectory is fantastic in every iron.


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## Ethan (Jul 13, 2012)

Snelly said:



			Thanks for that.  Which are the shafts in the clubs that you sold to Rick? Not that it matters too much.  I am sure they will be lovely and I am a man of my word too.
		
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They were actually a cheap set of shafts in ladies flex on a set of knock offs.  I just put some Project X shaft labels on them to make them look genuine.


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## fundy (Jul 13, 2012)

Ethan said:



			They were actually a cheap set of shafts in ladies flex on a set of knock offs.  I just put some Project X shaft labels on them to make them look genuine.
		
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If thats the case Im amazed that Rick didnt get on with them


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## USER1999 (Jul 13, 2012)

MadAdey said:



			My last 3 sets of irons have had Rifle shafts and I love them. Compared to hitting mates clubs that have TT DG shafts mine just feel so much nicer when you strike the ball and the trajectory is fantastic in every iron.
		
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Opposite for me. Just can't get on with rifles. No weight, dead feel, leaves me clueless.


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## Minhoca (Jul 13, 2012)

MadAdey said:



			.Compared to hitting mates clubs that have TT DG shafts mine just feel so much nicer when you strike the ball and the trajectory is fantastic in every iron.
		
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What was the difference in trajectory?


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## Snelly (Jul 13, 2012)

Ethan said:



			They were actually a cheap set of shafts in ladies flex on a set of knock offs.  I just put some Project X shaft labels on them to make them look genuine.
		
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Excellent! :thup:


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## Snelly (Jul 13, 2012)

And it would be great if you could sell me the 3 iron!


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## Snelly (Sep 5, 2012)

Right.  My new irons (Callaway X-22 Tour which by the way look almost identical at address to my X-14 Pro irons!) have got shafts in them that say Rifle Project X Flighted 5.5 Precision.

Am I right in thinking that in old money, this means they are a bit softer than S300 shafts?

Apologies for my ignorance...!  Thanks in advance for any help. 

Will see how they go at Crowborough tomorrow but they feel nice......


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## Alex1975 (Sep 5, 2012)

Ethan said:



			I had a set of those 62s in black nickel once. 

On the shaft question there are a number of differences. Rifles are frequency matched so their flex (based on frequency at least) is pretty consistent and plays a shade softer than TT DG S300. Project X are a different type of shaft designed to play very solid and boardy. They are not frequency matched so are a bit more variable within and between sets. PX play about 0.5 firmer than the equivalent Rifle. PX flighted are different again and play softer than PX, similar to Rifle.
		
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I always find it interesting when its said that PX feel or are meant to feel boardy. In irons I can not find another shaft that gives me the feedback of the PX, DG feels far more boardy to me. However in the woods range I find there shafts dead, boardy, lifeless and totally un comunicative so that is true to form. I guess its what makes shafts such an interesting topic!


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## Region3 (Sep 5, 2012)

Snelly said:



			Right.  My new irons (Callaway X-22 Tour which by the way look almost identical at address to my X-14 Pro irons!) have got shafts in them that say Rifle Project X Flighted 5.5 Precision.

Am I right in thinking that in old money, this means they are a bit softer than S300 shafts?

Apologies for my ignorance...!  Thanks in advance for any help. 

Will see how they go at Crowborough tomorrow but they feel nice......
		
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S300 equates to about 5.3 on the Project-X scale, so your 5.5's are slightly firmer.

The 'Flighted' part means that (apologies if you already know this) the shafts are designed to give a higher than normal flight with the longer irons and lower with the shorter irons.


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## Snelly (Sep 5, 2012)

Region3 said:



			S300 equates to about 5.3 on the Project-X scale, so your 5.5's are slightly firmer.

The 'Flighted' part means that (apologies if you already know this) the shafts are designed to give a higher than normal flight with the longer irons and lower with the shorter irons.
		
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Thanks very much R3.  Just what I wanted to know and no, I had absolutely no clue what the flighted part meant so thanks again.


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## BeachGolfer (Sep 5, 2012)

Snelly said:



			Am I right in thinking that in old money, this means they are a bit softer than S300 shafts?
		
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Just as you thought confusion over, Royal Precision always stated an S300 was around 5.7 / 5.8 on their PX scale. An approx equivalent of a hard stepped S300.


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## Alex1975 (Sep 5, 2012)

Region3 said:



			S300 equates to about 5.3 on the Project-X scale, so your 5.5's are slightly firmer.

The 'Flighted' part means that (apologies if you already know this) the shafts are designed to give a higher than normal flight with the longer irons and lower with the shorter irons.
		
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Is it not the the flighted get up quicker but level out at about the same hight as regular PX?


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## Region3 (Sep 5, 2012)

BeachGolfer said:



			Just as you thought confusion over, Royal Precision always stated an S300 was around 5.7 / 5.8 on their PX scale. An approx equivalent of a hard stepped S300.
		
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As far as I remember from Ethan when I was asking the same thing, S300 is around 5.8 on the *Rifle *scale, but around 5.3 on the *PX *scale.
Rifle play half a flex softer than the PX shaft of the same number.


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## Region3 (Sep 5, 2012)

Alex1975 said:



			Is it not the the flighted get up quicker but level out at about the same hight as regular PX?
		
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Sorry, don't know. You need Shaft! ;-)


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## Alex1975 (Sep 5, 2012)

Region3 said:



			Sorry, don't know. You need Shaft! ;-)
		
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"You're damn right!" (smily)


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## Ethan (Sep 5, 2012)

Region3 said:



			As far as I remember from Ethan when I was asking the same thing, S300 is around 5.8 on the *Rifle *scale, but around 5.3 on the *PX *scale.
Rifle play half a flex softer than the PX shaft of the same number.
		
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That is the info I have.

Based on frequency, TT DG S300 = Rifle 5.8 = PX 5.3 = KBS R+ hard stepped

PX 5.5 = Rifle 6.0 = KBS Stiff = TT DS S300 hard stepped (OK, those are 6.1 actually)


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## Foxholer (Sep 5, 2012)

Ethan said:



			PX 5.5 = Rifle 6.0 = KBS Stiff = TT DS S300 hard stepped (OK, those are 6.1 actually)
		
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This may be about right, but the feel is significantly different.

The (original satin finish - that's another variable!) PX 5.5s I had were indeed boardy and the bones in my hands hurt if I played more than once in a couple of days on a links course. The Rifle 6.0s were (and still are) fine (Miura Tournament Blades and TM 300 Forgeds). I had some KBS Tours (in Vega V-Muscles) that felt slightly softer than the R6.0s. The  PXs actually replaced some S300s that felt  dull - dead was how the fitter described them in those particular heads (Miura CB201s). The PXs did feel 'bright' and gave good feedback, just needed a 'hitter' swing rather than my 'swinger' one.

Part of the feel is because of the profile of the different shafts. S300 is Butt soft/tip stiff; Rifles are Butt stiff/tip soft. PX and KBS Tours, which were actually designed by the same guy) seem to flex higher up the shaft than Rifles. I would happily play KBS Tours again or a slightly heavier shaft of the same profile, though the C-Tapers, that seem somewhere between Tours and PX don't seem my sort of shaft. Oddly, I have got on very well with S400s (MP37s) - which are really just slightly out-of-tolerance (over-weight) S300s!


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## Ethan (Sep 6, 2012)

Foxholer said:



			This may be about right, but the feel is significantly different.

The (original satin finish - that's another variable!) PX 5.5s I had were indeed boardy and the bones in my hands hurt if I played more than once in a couple of days on a links course. The Rifle 6.0s were (and still are) fine (Miura Tournament Blades and TM 300 Forgeds). I had some KBS Tours (in Vega V-Muscles) that felt slightly softer than the R6.0s. The  PXs actually replaced some S300s that felt  dull - dead was how the fitter described them in those particular heads (Miura CB201s). The PXs did feel 'bright' and gave good feedback, just needed a 'hitter' swing rather than my 'swinger' one.

Part of the feel is because of the profile of the different shafts. S300 is Butt soft/tip stiff; Rifles are Butt stiff/tip soft. PX and KBS Tours, which were actually designed by the same guy) seem to flex higher up the shaft than Rifles. I would happily play KBS Tours again or a slightly heavier shaft of the same profile, though the C-Tapers, that seem somewhere between Tours and PX don't seem my sort of shaft. Oddly, I have got on very well with S400s (MP37s) - which are really just slightly out-of-tolerance (over-weight) S300s!
		
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All true, which is why I said the comparison was based on frequency. YMMV as they say on the internet a lot.


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