# Six Nations 2018



## Doon frae Troon (Jan 16, 2018)

I know Scotland are desperately searching for uninjured props........but.......... D'arcy.
I just hope he is as tough as a boy named Sue.


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## SocketRocket (Jan 16, 2018)

InGerLanda


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## DCB (Jan 16, 2018)

First time in many years where I feel there is a realistic chance of Scotland performing well in the competition. Looking forward to it this year.


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## Val (Jan 16, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I know Scotland are desperately searching for uninjured props........but.......... D'arcy.
I just hope he is as tough as a boy named Sue. 

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Smashing young player


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## Val (Jan 16, 2018)

SocketRocket said:



			InGerLanda
		
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Not this year I donâ€™t think, canâ€™t see past Ireland if Leinsters current form is anything to go on.


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## Val (Jan 16, 2018)

DCB said:



			First time in many years where I feel there is a realistic chance of Scotland performing well in the competition. Looking forward to it this year.
		
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Performed well last year Dave, 3 wins again this year would be superb especially as I feel 2 of them will have to be away from home.

Heading to the opener in Cardiff, cant wait


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## NWJocko (Jan 16, 2018)

Val said:



			Not this year I donâ€™t think, canâ€™t see past Ireland if Leinsters current form is anything to go on.
		
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Agree with this, as long as Scotland keep showing improvement I'll be happy :thup:

1 away match confirmed, pretty sure ticket for one of our home matches is secured and some crazy talk about another trip for a second away game this year   Can't wait :thup:


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## User20205 (Jan 16, 2018)

Val said:



			Not this year I donâ€™t think, canâ€™t see past Ireland if Leinsters current form is anything to go on.
		
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I reckon England may struggle down mainly to injuries/suspension/form, but Ireland have to come to twickenham, if it was Dublin Iâ€™d give us little chance currently. Canâ€™t look past murrayfield either if your lotcan find a couple of props & Stuart hodge is fit


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## Val (Jan 16, 2018)

therod said:



			I reckon England may struggle down mainly to injuries/suspension/form, but Ireland have to come to twickenham, if it was Dublin Iâ€™d give us little chance currently. Canâ€™t look past murrayfield either if your lotcan find a couple of props & Stuart hodge is fit
		
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Who is Stuart Hodge?


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## GB72 (Jan 16, 2018)

Really can see any ome of the home nations winning this year. Ireland remain strong, Scotland have a great chance if they can avoid injury to key players, Wales could struggle due to injuries but they said that at the last world cup and England have an easier mix of home and away matches but I feel that injury to Billy could be crucial. France, who knows.


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## User20205 (Jan 16, 2018)

Val said:



			Who is Stuart Hodge? 

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hahaha. Someone who I used to know, ..... Hogg


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## rudebhoy (Jan 17, 2018)

Scotland look overpriced at 11/1. Expect that to drop massively when they beat Wales in the opener.


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## Val (Jan 17, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			Scotland look overpriced at 11/1. Expect that to drop massively when they beat Wales in the opener.
		
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11/1 as third favourites? I'd say 11/1 was fair if not a bit under.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jan 17, 2018)

rudebhoy said:



			Scotland look overpriced at 11/1. Expect that to drop massively when they beat Wales in the opener.
		
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I can't see that to be honest.

Scottish front row will really struggle and we cannot expect our backs to do what they are so good at if they cannot get hold of the ball.

Price over Laidlaw will be an interesting choice. I called for Price before Laidlaw was injured, Laidlaw was a bit too slow for me and we are not so reliant on his kicking any more.

I just hope we see a lot of line kicking and few scrums/rucks.


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## Beezerk (Jan 17, 2018)

Blimey the Scots are a bit chirpy this year, canâ€™t you tell theyâ€™ve got a half decent team for once ðŸ˜œ


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## Doon frae Troon (Jan 17, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			Blimey the Scots are a bit chirpy this year, canâ€™t you tell theyâ€™ve got a half decent team for once ðŸ˜œ
		
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Our first choice front row is now down to 4th choice.......just being realistic.


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## IanM (Jan 17, 2018)

This back again?  Oh my, the natives go all feisty for the next 7 weeks!


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## Val (Jan 17, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			Blimey the Scots are a bit chirpy this year, canâ€™t you tell theyâ€™ve got a half decent team for once ðŸ˜œ
		
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Iâ€™m always chirpy but Iâ€™m a realist, we wonâ€™t win, 3rd at best


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 17, 2018)

This years 6 Nations could be a cracker 

Think England have the slight edge because of the friendlier fixture list but Ireland do look very strong. Prob the best Scotland side for a while so can see those three in the top three slots 

Really looking forward to it - shame Billy out for England though


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 17, 2018)

Could be tight. A fully fit Scottish side would be capable of causing a few shocks and may have even won it. That said, simply because of the way the fixtures are, I think England will win the title but not a grand slam. Won't be pretty and they'll get run close


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## fundy (Jan 17, 2018)

if theres one thing for certain you're not going to see any side at full fitness, more and more players are carrying injuries and breaking down as the requirements placed on them grow and grow

every chance the competition is decided by which team keeps most of its star players fit and which have the greatest strength in depth, thats certainly how club rugby is going and international rugby cant be far from going the same way sadly

definite requirement to reduce the number of games the top players are playing each year or the overall quality is going to continue to be diluted


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## Val (Jan 18, 2018)

England squad announced today with the Scottish born Gary Graham announced who qualifies on residency rules. Iâ€™ve no problem with qualifying criteria BTW, itâ€™s the same for everyone. 

I only see bits and pieces of the AP and believe GG has only played 5 games or so for Newcastle and has been over looked for years by Scotland and as an academy player he wasnâ€™t offered a pro deal by the SRU hence why he went to jersey. Scotland have great depth in the back row so I donâ€™t believe heâ€™ll be a loss to us however want does Eddie Jones see in him and is the England squad lacking depth in the backrow given theyâ€™ve never really played with a traditional 7?


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 18, 2018)

Val said:



			England squad announced today with the Scottish born Gary Graham announced who qualifies on residency rules. Iâ€™ve no problem with qualifying criteria BTW, itâ€™s the same for everyone. 

I only see bits and pieces of the AP and believe GG has only played 5 games or so for Newcastle and has been over looked for years by Scotland and as an academy player he wasnâ€™t offered a pro deal by the SRU hence why he went to jersey. Scotland have great depth in the back row so I donâ€™t believe heâ€™ll be a loss to us however want does Eddie Jones see in him and is the England squad lacking depth in the backrow given theyâ€™ve never really played with a traditional 7?
		
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Who knows what EJ sees, but wihtout doubt he has to be the shrewdest of Home Nation coaches for quite a while.


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## Val (Jan 27, 2018)

A week to go, really looking forward to it now all squads are announced and the build up has begun.

First match maybe a bit of survival of the fittest with Scotland losing 9 front row players and the Welsh losing some major influence to injury.


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## User20205 (Jan 27, 2018)

I reckon England look a bit underpowered also. Certainly in the back row. Unless Teo is fit, I donâ€™t know where our penetration is coming from.


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## GB72 (Jan 28, 2018)

Guessing the power comes from putting lawes or itoji in the back row and launchbury in tge second row. They can punch holes. Centres are the problem. Pity manu has not done enough to justify a recall


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 3, 2018)

Llanelli all over Scotland this half.

Things can only get better for Scotland.


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## GB72 (Feb 3, 2018)

Certainly was not expecting this scoreline. Could be a real hammering. Scotland been out of it since the first few minutes


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## IanM (Feb 3, 2018)

Wow. Scotland must have been out on the ale all night.   Didn't see this coming.


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## upsidedown (Feb 3, 2018)

Well that was a right stuffing


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 3, 2018)

And we had such high hopes - stupid game anyway! :rofl:


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## Imurg (Feb 3, 2018)

upsidedown said:



			Well that was a right stuffing
		
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Candidate for understatement of the year award....


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 3, 2018)

With Scotland playing their 4th and 5th choice front rows it was always going tough, especially the last 20 minutes.
For the rest of the team to be so crap was disappointing. :lol:

Mind you Wales [Llanelli] were pretty sharp.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2018)

Well that was an unexpected result and performance 

Scotland were poor all over the field - I think it was after the 4th min when Gray went through and they lost the ball to a penalty after that they were just mistake after mistake and Wales were clinical. It was always going to be tough for Scotland but thought they had enough to get the win but that was a surprise


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## davie24 (Feb 3, 2018)

Had really high hopes this year after the Autumn matches. I suppose things can only improve from now on.


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## Piece (Feb 3, 2018)

Good try from the French winger. Great name....Teddy Thomas!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 3, 2018)

Well they got the win but by god that was tighter than expected - Ireland got away with that one. France looked a lot better than expected as well. If only they werenâ€™t French you would feel sorry for them 

Great start so far.


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## Piece (Feb 3, 2018)

What a brilliant drop goal from miles out by Sexton. Do or die that. :clap:


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 3, 2018)

Glad Ireland nicked that after the french guy limped off with an obvious knee injury and it was claimed to be a head injury assessment. At best that's gamesmanship and at worst (and in my view) it's cheating.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 3, 2018)

Really enjoyed both games and glad to see Ireland get home. The injuries Scotland have cost them dear but to be honest they were in trouble from very early on. The lack of depth just became more apparent as the match went on with the replacements they had to bring on. Taking nothing away from Wales who were efficient. Ireland won ugly and a great last gasp kick to win but they made such hard work of that


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## User20205 (Feb 3, 2018)

ColchesterFC said:



			Glad Ireland nicked that after the french guy limped off with an obvious knee injury and it was claimed to be a head injury assessment. At best that's gamesmanship and at worst (and in my view) it's cheating.
		
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It is & the game has a problem with HIA being abused. But if a dr says itâ€™s a head knock what do you do ?


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 3, 2018)

therod said:



			It is & the game has a problem with HIA being abused. But if a dr says itâ€™s a head knock what do you do ?
		
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 I don't lay any blame with the ref, he has to go with what the doctor tells him. But, it's clear from the replays that there was no contact with the head. Is it an independent doctor or is it the French team doctor that makes the call? And if it is an independent doctor what can he do if the player comes off and says he's been hit in the head?

I was cooking dinner during the match and it was only afterwards that I heard that there had been a second similar incident where the player went off, also with a knee injury, and it was claimed to be a head injury assessment.


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## User20205 (Feb 3, 2018)

ColchesterFC said:



			I don't lay any blame with the ref, he has to go with what the doctor tells him. But, it's clear from the replays that there was no contact with the head. Is it an independent doctor or is it the French team doctor that makes the call? And if it is an independent doctor what can he do if the player comes off and says he's been hit in the head?

I was cooking dinner during the match and it was only afterwards that I heard that there had been a second similar incident where the player went off, also with a knee injury, and it was claimed to be a head injury assessment.
		
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It used to be team dr. The French have got form for this. It may have changed now, but it undermines all the good stuff on player safety. Itâ€™s like the game hasnâ€™t learned any lessons from bloodgate


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## JamesR (Feb 3, 2018)

Scotland werenâ€™t direct enough, Ireland were too one dimensional, France are basically big and nothing more & Wales were good (but would they have been good enough against a decent side?)


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## Imurg (Feb 3, 2018)

JamesR said:



			Scotland werenâ€™t direct enough, Ireland were too one dimensional, France are basically big and nothing more & Wales were good (but would they have been good enough against a decent side?)
		
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What like England 2nds...ðŸ˜


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## JamesR (Feb 3, 2018)

Imurg said:



			What like England 2nds...ðŸ˜
		
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Well, I didnâ€™t really want to go there... but, yeah.


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## IanM (Feb 3, 2018)

Wow. Scotland.


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## MegaSteve (Feb 4, 2018)

ColchesterFC said:



			I don't lay any blame with the ref, he has to go with what the doctor tells him. But, it's clear from the replays that there was no contact with the head. Is it an independent doctor or is it the French team doctor that makes the call? And if it is an independent doctor what can he do if the player comes off and says he's been hit in the head?

I was cooking dinner during the match and it was only afterwards that I heard that there had been a second similar incident where the player went off, also with a knee injury, and it was claimed to be a head injury assessment.
		
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I understood it to be the 'match' doctor that made the call rather than a 'team' doctor...


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## Matty6 (Feb 4, 2018)

MegaSteve said:



			I understood it to be the 'match' doctor that made the call rather than a 'team' doctor...
		
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Iâ€™m sure I heard before that the match doctor takes guidance from the team doctor! Could be wrong though.


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## MegaSteve (Feb 4, 2018)

Matty6 said:



			Iâ€™m sure I heard before that the match doctor takes guidance from the team doctor! Could be wrong though.
		
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Fair enough...


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## User20205 (Feb 4, 2018)

MegaSteve said:



			Fair enough...
		
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Either way itâ€™s a shambles & brings the sport into disrepute IMO


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## Foxholer (Feb 4, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			...Wales were clinical....
		
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This!


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## MegaSteve (Feb 4, 2018)

therod said:



			Either way itâ€™s a shambles & brings the sport into disrepute IMO
		
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Quite...


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## MegaSteve (Feb 4, 2018)

IanM said:



			Wow. Scotland.
		
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I suspect they won't rollover so easily when they come up against the team in white...


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## Matty6 (Feb 4, 2018)

therod said:



			Either way itâ€™s a shambles & brings the sport into disrepute IMO
		
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Completely agree.


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## PieMan (Feb 4, 2018)

Great start from England.


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## USER1999 (Feb 4, 2018)

Not so much now!


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## Old Skier (Feb 4, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Mind you Wales [Llanelli] were pretty sharp.
		
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It appears that it only takes players from a little town in Wales to crush the might Scots.


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## PieMan (Feb 4, 2018)

murphthemog said:



			Not so much now!
		
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No; lost a little bit of intensity when Youngs went off and have let Italy back into it but fully expect them to pick it up again in the 2nd half after they get a rocket from Eddie!!


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## Foxholer (Feb 4, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			It appears that it only takes players from a little town in Wales to crush the might Scots.
		
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That 'little town in Wales' has produced a couple of other victories over touring teams before! I can even remember *listening* to one of them!!

Grapes a bit sour Doon?


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 4, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			It appears that it only takes players from a little town in Wales to crush the might Scots.
		
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I have lots of family in Llanelli, they were texting quite furiously last night. :lol:

England look 'sluggish'. On this showing Wales will take them apart.


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## Imurg (Feb 4, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I have lots of family in Llanelli, they were texting quite furiously last night. :lol:

England look 'sluggish'. On this showing Wales will take them apart.
		
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Assuming Wales continue as they did yesterday.
Their biggest problem in the last 30 years has been inconsistency


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## The Autumn Wind (Feb 4, 2018)

From a coaching perspective, I'd imagine Eddie Jones and Conor O'Shea are furious at the defensive efforts of their teams inside their own 22's. Repeatedly poor positioning and organisation.


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## Old Skier (Feb 4, 2018)

Imurg said:



			Assuming Wales continue as they did yesterday.
Their biggest problem in the last 30 years has been inconsistency
		
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No strength in depth at the moment, we are waiting for the World Cup :lol:


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## ScienceBoy (Feb 4, 2018)

The video ref in this game needs to be taken to the FA offices so soccerball can make video refs as exciting as this. Cracking call and TMO at its finest and most exciting.


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## The Autumn Wind (Feb 4, 2018)

ScienceBoy said:



			The video ref in this game needs to be taken to the FA offices so soccerball can make video refs as exciting as this. Cracking call and TMO at its finest and most exciting.
		
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Yep. Rugby is an all around superior sport to football, and the use of video technology is just one small example of why.


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## PieMan (Feb 4, 2018)

Certainly not the best England performance in the Jones era but as an opener, and with a number of 1st choice players out, will definitely take 7 tries and 46 points over an improved and spirited Italy. Should be a cracking game next week at HQ against the Welsh.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 4, 2018)

PieMan said:



			Certainly not the best England performance in the Jones era but as an opener, and with a number of 1st choice players out, will definitely take 7 tries and 46 points over an improved and spirited Italy. Should be a cracking game next week at HQ against the Welsh.
		
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A win when not firing on anything like all cylinders has to be good as does the number of tries but against better opposition (no disrespect to the Italians) those defensive errors will be punished severely


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## User62651 (Feb 4, 2018)

The Autumn Wind said:



			Yep. Rugby is an all around superior sport to football, and the use of video technology is just one small example of why.
		
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But of a sweeping statement, it's a matter of opinion. You could say rugby is just a daft game for posh boys but that would be equally sweeping.
Six nations is over hyped here because its one of the few sports BBC still has and because England generally win the title.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 4, 2018)

The Autumn Wind said:



			Yep. Rugby is an all around superior sport to football, and the use of video technology is just one small example of why.
		
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Bit of a bold statement that one. Not sure I'd agree with it. Football will get video technology right but it's not perfect yet


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## PieMan (Feb 4, 2018)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Bit of a bold statement that one. Not sure I'd agree with it. Football will get video technology right but it's not perfect yet
		
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I'd agree with that. Players are more respectful to each other, as well as to officials. And supporters are also. The well known phrase is describing the differences between rugby and football couldn't be more appropriate.

And this is from someone who played football semi-professionally and is a qualified coach at youth level.


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## PieMan (Feb 4, 2018)

My last post was related to rugby being a superior sport!


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## User20205 (Feb 4, 2018)

PieMan said:



			I'd agree with that. Players are more respectful to each other, as well as to officials. And supporters are also. The well known phrase is describing the differences between rugby and football couldn't be more appropriate.

And this is from someone who played football semi-professionally and is a qualified coach at youth level.
		
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But you forget the homer is a qualified football ref & has a unique insight into all that involves


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## Val (Feb 4, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			With Scotland playing their 4th and 5th choice front rows it was always going tough, especially the last 20 minutes.
For the rest of the team to be so crap was disappointing. :lol:

Mind you Wales [Llanelli] were pretty sharp.
		
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Front row wasnâ€™t the problem


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## Val (Feb 4, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I have lots of family in Llanelli, they were texting quite furiously last night. :lol:

England look 'sluggish'. On this showing Wales will take them apart.
		
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Wales wonâ€™t play as well as that again, even Sam Warburton said it was one of the best Wales performances in his time


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## GB72 (Feb 4, 2018)

Usual England performance v italy. Once we get a couple of scores ahead we shut off then turn on the gas in the last quarter. Expect a far more intense performance against stronger opposition. Ford and Farrell combination looked good still, watson on fire and Nowell looking good. All of the debutants kept there name in the hat for next week. Sadly for me as a Tigers fan looks like the end of Ben Youngs season. Hopefully not going the sane way as Harry Ellis. Still, wasos number 9 has been knocking on the door of selection for ages so hope he gets the call ahead of the experience of Wigglesworth.

Mike Brown not looking anywhere near his best. Maybe time for Watson to start at 15 with Nowell on the wing 

Just to add that was by my reckoning our 4th or 5th choice loosehead who came on


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2018)

GB72 said:



			Usual England performance v italy. Once we get a couple of scores ahead we shut off then turn on the gas in the last quarter. Expect a far more intense performance against stronger opposition. Ford and Farrell combination looked good still, watson on fire and Nowell looking good. All of the debutants kept there name in the hat for next week. Sadly for me as a Tigers fan looks like the end of Ben Youngs season. Hopefully not going the sane way as Harry Ellis. Still, wasos number 9 has been knocking on the door of selection for ages so hope he gets the call ahead of the experience of Wigglesworth.

Mike Brown not looking anywhere near his best. Maybe time for Watson to start at 15 with Nowell on the wing 

Just to add that was by my reckoning our 4th or 5th choice loosehead who came on
		
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Brown been on borrowed time for a long while for me, not in the top 3 full backs in the prem yet still gets picked week after week.

Up front definitely a case of who can keep the most of their big players fit, almost all sides already short of their best and only gonna get worse


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## GB72 (Feb 4, 2018)

At best Brown can be described as a safeish choice. Not excelling but rarely has a howler. Thing is the ability to attack from 15 tends to stop an aerial bombardment and Brown has lost that. Can see sexton happily punting it down his throat all day knowing that he does not have the gas to get up to and past the kick chase


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## JT77 (Feb 4, 2018)

England got the job done today, thatâ€™s all they had to do. 
Feel for Youngâ€™s as he really has came into his own for England under jones imo, some of the debutants looked very good but will be interesting to see against stronger opponents.  
Not sure what jones has against Goode at FB like, he has been quality for sarries for a good while. 
Roll on next week, thoroughly enjoyed this weekends games, ireland France was a fantastic watch too.


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2018)

JT77 said:



			England got the job done today, thatâ€™s all they had to do. 
Feel for Youngâ€™s as he really has came into his own for England under jones imo, some of the debutants looked very good but will be interesting to see against stronger opponents.  
Not sure what jones has against Goode at FB like, he has been quality for sarries for a good while. 
Roll on next week, thoroughly enjoyed this weekends games, ireland France was a fantastic watch too.
		
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he made it pretty clear from day 1 he didnt rate goode and refuses to even consider him, england loss sarries gain. sadly outside goode hes not even close to picking the best full back (or hooker if we want to go down that road lol)


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## GB72 (Feb 4, 2018)

To be fair Hartley plays better for england than he does for saints. Not sure why he does not like the look of Goode.


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## JT77 (Feb 4, 2018)

Agreed Fundy, Hartley isnâ€™t the best by a way for me, but, I think as a leader, he has been excellent, temperament has been under control and he seems to get the best from the team as captain, would someone else be able too? Yes probably, but at present he does a good job. The ability England have to bring on starters to finish means they go an go the full 80at strength, something the all blacks have done for years, and thatâ€™s what we have to aspire too


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2018)

GB72 said:



			To be fair Hartley plays better for england than he does for saints. Not sure why he does not like the look of Goode.
		
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his best is the same level as some of the guys are at week in week out, but once the aussie hung his hat there he wasnt gonna back track quickly

hes doing an ok job but seems to be being lauded, personally prefer to wait and see how we do when it really matters against the big boys!


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 8, 2018)

Better balanced Scots team named for the French game [IMO]

The new guys were a bit grim last week, I think the new manager made a bit of a Horlicks.


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## Val (Feb 8, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Better balanced Scots team named for the French game [IMO]

The new guys were a bit grim last week, I think the new manager made a bit of a Horlicks.
		
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New guys? Everyone who played last week had already played for Scotland.

I donâ€™t think he made a horlicks of it, I think Wales sussed it and we had too many players, particularly the half backs miss firing.

Iâ€™d expect a reaction this week


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## SS2 (Feb 9, 2018)

I remember Townsend as a player. Occasionally sublime, usually ok, sometimes utterly woeful. Looks like his coaching career may go the same way. Against Wales, everything that could go wrong did go wrong: Harris and McGuigan were lambs to the slaughter. Price and Russell clearly on mind-altering drugs. Forwards not up to the physical challenge. Defensive lines a joke, we badly missed Dunbar. Wales were great, though, and played with real passion and skill. I suspect they will have their spirit crushed at Twickenham by the ruthlessly efficient English machine but I wish them well.


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## Val (Feb 9, 2018)

SS2 said:



			I remember Townsend as a player. Occasionally sublime, usually ok, sometimes utterly woeful. Looks like his coaching career may go the same way. Against Wales, everything that could go wrong did go wrong: Harris and McGuigan were lambs to the slaughter. Price and Russell clearly on mind-altering drugs. Forwards not up to the physical challenge. Defensive lines a joke, we badly missed Dunbar. Wales were great, though, and played with real passion and skill. I suspect they will have their spirit crushed at Twickenham by the ruthlessly efficient English machine but I wish them well.
		
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Pretty much spot on


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## ScienceBoy (Feb 10, 2018)

Robbed there, not the call I would have given if in charge.

Maybe my rugby league background influences the way I see it.


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## Old Skier (Feb 10, 2018)

ScienceBoy said:



			Robbed there, not the call I would have given if in charge.

Maybe my rugby league background influences the way I see it.
		
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This TMO lark not all it's cracked up to be at times.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 10, 2018)

England v Wales, one for the purist. Hard going to watch.


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## User62651 (Feb 10, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			England v Wales, one for the purist. Hard going to watch.
		
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Yep, sat down to watch it, thought it might be perhaps game of the tournament for the neutral but channel changed now, dull game.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 10, 2018)

Thank goodness for that - great battle but England saved by a very tight TMO call


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## PhilTheFragger (Feb 10, 2018)

Conditions not great , cold and slippery balls ( oh Matron) ðŸ˜‚, turned it into a game of attrition,
Wales played very well indeed and were unlucky not to get a try, but I canâ€™t see England losing any games this time round, solid, rode their luck and took their chances,

Not a great game to watch, but the result is great for England ðŸ‘


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## upsidedown (Feb 10, 2018)

Enthralling game and great defence at times from England, Ireland will fancy their chances now.


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## Beezerk (Feb 10, 2018)

Thank god thatâ€™s over, had the missus shouting at the tv for the last 30 minutes ðŸ¤¬


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## PhilTheFragger (Feb 10, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			Thank god thatâ€™s over, had the missus shouting at the tv for the last 30 minutes ðŸ¤¬
		
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At least she wasnâ€™t shouting at you ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜Ž


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## Captainron (Feb 10, 2018)

I hate the England rugby team with a passion.


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## fundy (Feb 10, 2018)

mike brown motm one of the stranger decisions ive seen in a while lol


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## MegaSteve (Feb 10, 2018)

The crescendo of Team ABE chins crashing against chests in disappointment...

Maybe next time people...

And, really pleased for Mike Brown...
Seems to have many detractors but for today, at least, they'll have to keep quiet...


And, for all those that think video refs are the answer...
Well, they ain't..

And, yes, I've had a jar or three too many...


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## pokerjoke (Feb 10, 2018)

fundy said:



			mike brown motm one of the stranger decisions ive seen in a while lol
		
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He did what he had to do well,myself I would have gone for Farrell stopped so many attacks forcing knock ons and turn overs.


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## USER1999 (Feb 10, 2018)

Keith Earls, great heart, great try saving tackle. Needs to see a good dentist though. Manky teeth.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 10, 2018)

Cracking game. Very asorbing and a tight affair. Ireland ruthless today will give England a stern test.


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## Old Skier (Feb 10, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Thank goodness for that - great battle but England saved by a very tight TMO call
		
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Nothing tight about it, he got it wrong unfortunately.


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## bladeplayer (Feb 10, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			This TMO lark not all it's cracked up to be at times.
		
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The wales try ? I thought it was a good call . Off the knee but no downward pressure or not enough  control  for me ..


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## Old Skier (Feb 10, 2018)

bladeplayer said:



			The wales try ? I thought it was a good call . Off the knee but no downward pressure or not enough  control  for me ..
		
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Have to agree to disagree.  I'll go with the opinion of the 3 ex players in the studio.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 10, 2018)

Guess itâ€™s all about if the player had it under control and with downward pressure

Very tight imo


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 10, 2018)

I didn't play rugby but to me there was no way the attacker had any control, apparently required as well as downward pressure which was also questionable. I was really taken aback then when the experts in the studio all called it a try. I'm confused.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 10, 2018)

One of those that could easily have gone either way. Happy to see it given though


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## Old Skier (Feb 10, 2018)

Funny how some agree with the experts on the footie thread but when their team wins ignore the experts when it comes to rugby.

And downward pressure is no longer mentioned in the rule I think you'll find.


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## Beezerk (Feb 10, 2018)

bladeplayer said:



			The wales try ? I thought it was a good call . Off the knee but no downward pressure or not enough  control  for me ..
		
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I thought he swiped the ball from the side (ball skids forward after he touched it) rather than pressing from the top. I donâ€™t know the rules but as an England fan they got it spot on ðŸ˜‰


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 10, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			Funny how some agree with the experts on the footie thread but when their team wins ignore the experts when it comes to rugby.

And downward pressure is no longer mentioned in the rule I think you'll find.
		
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What is the rule then? Not being funny, happy to learn.


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## JamesR (Feb 10, 2018)

Even as an Englishman Iâ€™d have given the try, but Iâ€™m glad the rub of the green went our way for once on a close call.
Great game, our tackling was immense, and we beat a pretty good team in nearly all areas of the Park.
Iâ€™m a happy English rugby fan.


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## Old Skier (Feb 10, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			Nothing tight about it, he got it wrong unfortunately.
		
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Lord Tyrion said:



			What is the rule then? Not being funny, happy to learn.
		
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Touch the ball down in the in goal area. 

http://laws.worldrugby.org/index.php?law=21&language=EN


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## fundy (Feb 10, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What is the rule then? Not being funny, happy to learn.
		
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on tv they claimed the law had been changed saying it didnt now include the phrase downward pressure but now required the player to be incontrol of the ball

cant see that in the current version of the laws! so im assuming its a refs directive not an actual change to the wording of the laws

http://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=21


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## User20205 (Feb 10, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			Touch the ball down in the in goal area.
		
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It was a try. Thought England deserved to win based on first half control, but they seem to have a habit of losing intensity. Wales looked better after patchell went off


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## Old Skier (Feb 10, 2018)

therod said:



			It was a try. Thought England deserved to win based on first half control, but they seem to have a habit of losing intensity. Wales looked better after patchell went off
		
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England had the better first half and unfortunately Wales didn't get out of bed untill the last 20 min.

I think England will need to up their game if they want to beat Ireland.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 10, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			Touch the ball down in the in goal area. 

http://laws.worldrugby.org/index.php?law=21&language=EN

Click to expand...

Surely 1b is downward pressure? Pressing down is downward pressure. No mention of control though interestingly enough.


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## User20205 (Feb 10, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			England had the better first half and unfortunately Wales didn't get out of bed untill the last 20 min.

I think England will need to up their game if they want to beat Ireland.
		
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Think youâ€™re right. They do some really good stuff, first half was good. Started off the second well, then lost some precision.


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## bladeplayer (Feb 10, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			Have to agree to disagree.  I'll go with the opinion of the 3 ex players in the studio.[/Q
Which ur most entitled to do ..
		
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## Old Skier (Feb 10, 2018)

.[/Q
Which ur most entitled to do ..[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that


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## MegaSteve (Feb 10, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			I think England will need to up their game if they want to beat Ireland.
		
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Blinking heck... Many had them down for getting a right drubbin' today...
As much as I dislike EJ he seems to have the knowhow for getting a result...


And, I wonder if the studio 'experts' just call it different to the officials to create a bit of false controversy...


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 10, 2018)

Are Eddie Jones' England rubgy team a bit like Jose Mourinho's football teams? Great in defence and nullifying the opposition's attack but not as good as they could be as they are too focused on defending rather than going forward?


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## SocketRocket (Feb 11, 2018)

In comparison to Wales try fest against Scotland last week England stopped them in their tracks.  As long as England stuffs Wales and France I'm happy.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 11, 2018)

I actually didnt think it was a try, and their was no conclusive evidence to say it was. The biggest problem was the camera that would have given the head on view was following D Care into the hoardings.
Of more importance was that wonder tackle of Sam Underhill to stop Williiams sliding in for that second half try, that was purely immense.
Overall I think England deserved the win, and played the conditions quite well.
Considering the players unavailable, I don't think they're doing too bad


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## upsidedown (Feb 11, 2018)

Fascinating game so far, hopefully Scotland will prove to be the fitter team and come through in the last quarter, but will need to keep it touch score wise. Worry about the defence when ball goes wide, they do seem to bunch up leaving the flank open .


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## User62651 (Feb 11, 2018)

upsidedown said:



			Fascinating game so far, hopefully Scotland will prove to be the fitter team and come through in the last quarter, but will need to keep it touch score wise. Worry about the defence when ball goes wide, they do seem to bunch up leaving the flank open .
		
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Well they got the win, after last weeks debacle that was the most important thing. Half decent game for the neutral.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 11, 2018)

maxfli65 said:



			Well they got the win, after last weeks debacle that was the most important thing. Half decent game for the neutral.
		
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Indeed. Far better than last week. French giving too many penalties away, a consistent trait over a number of years in the six nations


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 12, 2018)

Rugby related, the voice of rugby on the radio for many years, Ian Robertson has announced he will be retiring at the end of the year. An excellent journalist, always worth listening to and a wonderful voice for radio.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 12, 2018)

maxfli65 said:



			Well they got the win, after last weeks debacle that was the most important thing. Half decent game for the neutral.
		
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Struggled watching it - was pulling the sofa away from the wall after 2 minutes


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## Val (Feb 12, 2018)

MegaSteve said:



			The crescendo of Team ABE chins crashing against chests in disappointment...

Maybe next time people...

And, really pleased for Mike Brown...
Seems to have many detractors but for today, at least, they'll have to keep quiet...


And, for all those that think video refs are the answer...
Well, they ain't..

And, yes, I've had a jar or three too many...
		
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You won't get an ABE from me, I'd rather Wales got stuffed quite frankly. That said, TMO got the call wrong imo BUT the Welsh got a favourable decision on their fourth try last week which had a miles forward pass so thems the breaks


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 12, 2018)

Val said:



			You won't get an ABE from me, I'd rather Wales got stuffed quite frankly. That said, TMO got the call wrong imo BUT the Welsh got a favourable decision on their fourth try last week which had a miles forward pass so thems the breaks
		
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Were you at the game @Val? - you normally go I think.  What was up with some of the crowd starting to give Russell the bird when he put that touch kick long towards end of first half.  Yes it wasn't great - but we have come from a pretty bad place in the last couple of years and Russell has been core to that.


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## MegaSteve (Feb 12, 2018)

Val said:



			You won't get an ABE from me, I'd rather Wales got stuffed quite frankly. That said, TMO got the call wrong imo BUT the Welsh got a favourable decision on their fourth try last week which had a miles forward pass so thems the breaks
		
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When consoling my mate, up from the valleys, he did admit [if rather begrudgingly] there was a bit a of goes round comes around about the TMO decision...


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## Val (Feb 12, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Were you at the game @Val? - you normally go I think.  What was up with some of the crowd starting to give Russell the bird when he put that touch kick long towards end of first half.  Yes it wasn't great - but we have come from a pretty bad place in the last couple of years and Russell has been core to that.
		
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I was, Finn always plays with a smile and smirk, some think itâ€™s a bit cocky when his game isnâ€™t at its best and take issue with it. Itâ€™s the way he always has played, laugh it off and say iâ€™ll get it next time. Iâ€™d rather our guys did that.

Weâ€™re in a decent place just now but still a bit short of quality and belief at times but itâ€™s coming.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 13, 2018)

Val said:



			I was, Finn always plays with a smile and smirk, some think itâ€™s a bit cocky when his game isnâ€™t at its best and take issue with it. Itâ€™s the way he always has played, laugh it off and say iâ€™ll get it next time. Iâ€™d rather our guys did that.

Weâ€™re in a decent place just now but still a bit short of quality and belief at times but itâ€™s coming.
		
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Yes belief - I think you are right.  Against Wales we let it slip too quickly and didn't get anything back - and so it just got worse...and worse and belief just went - as against England last year

Against the French - bad start but we stemmed the flow and got a few points back reasonably quickly - so belief kept solid.  And the game plan changed in the second half - esp when Laidlaw came on.  We knew we had to win - playing fancy came #2.


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 13, 2018)

Funnily enough the only time I am ABE is when the 6 nations are on.
Mainly due to historical arrogance by England rugby 'fans' and press.


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## User20205 (Feb 13, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Funnily enough the only time I am ABE is when the 6 nations are on.
Mainly due to historical arrogance by England rugby 'fans' and press.
		
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â€˜Bags of this & bags of thatâ€™!!!! :blah: :blah:


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 13, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Funnily enough the only time I am ABE is when the 6 nations are on.
Mainly due to historical arrogance by England rugby 'fans' and press.
		
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Funnily enough i reckon thats a complete load of tosh - its quite clear you are firmly anti english all the time and you prove it on a daily basis on here.

As for England rugby i suspect your point of view to be false but part and parcel of someone with your attitude to all things english.


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## Old Skier (Feb 13, 2018)

And you really shouldnt fall for his normal trolling fishing trip.


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## Val (Feb 13, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Yes belief - I think you are right.  Against Wales we let it slip too quickly and didn't get anything back - and so it just got worse...and worse and belief just went - as against England last year

Against the French - bad start but we stemmed the flow and got a few points back reasonably quickly - so belief kept solid.  And the game plan changed in the second half - esp when Laidlaw came on.  We knew we had to win - playing fancy came #2.
		
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Laidlaw played the full game


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 13, 2018)

Val.......What do you think of a Price/Laidlaw half back partnership. ?

Russell seems to have lost the plot for the last two games.
Trying too hard to impress I think, as they say he should do less better.

I just caught up with the game having been on hospital duties for a few days.
Thought Scotland played very well


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## Val (Feb 13, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Val.......What do you think of a Price/Laidlaw half back partnership. ?

Russell seems to have lost the plot for the last two games.
Trying too hard to impress I think, as they say he should do less better.

I just caught up with the game having been on hospital duties for a few days.
Thought Scotland played very well
		
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Price and Laidlaw is carnage. As much as Scotland played with both, Laidlaw didnâ€™t actually cover 10 in a traditional sense, he was kept on to kick penalties. In the final 3rd of the game it was apparent the French were tiring so the tactic was to use Denton to truck it up crash style to break the French down and either take them on the outside or have them infringe to win penalties which is what happened. Laidlaw isnâ€™t the answer at 10 and chances are weâ€™ll unlikely see it again. Townsend recognised that penalties would be key and having a kicker like Laidlaw was going to be crucial especially when Finn was kicking like he had rigger boots on.

If you watch the game again and take the missed tackle on Thomas and the kicking away, Russell played quite well. His passing and decision making was spot on, his final pass to maitland was spot on but he needs to work on his kicking from hand. There is no doubt he is Scotlandâ€™s no 1 stand off and on his game he is one of the best in Europe but he needs to learn when itâ€™s on and when itâ€™s not in test match rugby, thatâ€™s the difference between him and the likes of Sexton or Farrell


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 14, 2018)

Val said:



			Price and Laidlaw is carnage. As much as Scotland played with both, Laidlaw didnâ€™t actually cover 10 in a traditional sense, he was kept on to kick penalties. In the final 3rd of the game it was apparent the French were tiring so the tactic was to use Denton to truck it up crash style to break the French down and either take them on the outside or have them infringe to win penalties which is what happened. Laidlaw isnâ€™t the answer at 10 and chances are weâ€™ll unlikely see it again. Townsend recognised that penalties would be key and having a kicker like Laidlaw was going to be crucial especially when Finn was kicking like he had rigger boots on.

If you watch the game again and take the missed tackle on Thomas and the kicking away, Russell played quite well. His passing and decision making was spot on, his final pass to maitland was spot on but he needs to work on his kicking from hand. There is no doubt he is Scotlandâ€™s no 1 stand off and on his game he is one of the best in Europe but he needs to learn when itâ€™s on and when itâ€™s not in test match rugby, thatâ€™s the difference between him and the likes of Sexton or Farrell
		
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Good summary
Denton certainly made a difference, and I thought Gilchrist and Bergham had good games.
The pack eased my worries about them and played well as a unit.

The half backs had at least three defensive kicks charged down. Lucky to get away with them.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 14, 2018)

Val said:



			Laidlaw played the full game
		
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Doh - of course - he was just moved...


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## GB72 (Feb 14, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Good summary
Denton certainly made a difference, and I thought Gilchrist and Bergham had good games.
The pack eased my worries about them and played well as a unit.

The half backs had at least three defensive kicks charged down. Lucky to get away with them.
		
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Glad to see Denton playing well as he is now a Tiger


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 14, 2018)

GB72 said:



			Glad to see Denton playing well as he is now a Tiger 

Click to expand...

Hair a-flying like Jean-Pierre Rives (now there was a player)


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## Val (Feb 14, 2018)

GB72 said:



			Glad to see Denton playing well as he is now a Tiger 

Click to expand...

I can't believe he gone to Tigers, I don't think he's good enough if im honest.


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## paddyc (Feb 24, 2018)

Good win for Ireland after a battling performance by the welsh boys.

England struggling a bit to weather early scottish pressure and gave away a sloppy try


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 24, 2018)

It's suddenly gone a bit quiet on here..........


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## Karl102 (Feb 24, 2018)

Great first half by Scotland. Fully deserve to be ahead.....


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## User20205 (Feb 24, 2018)

Karl102 said:



			Great first half by Scotland. Fully deserve to be ahead.....
		
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Yep 100%. England havenâ€™t pitched up


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## pokerjoke (Feb 24, 2018)

Karl102 said:



			Great first half by Scotland. Fully deserve to be ahead.....
		
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Yes but can they hold on


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## paddyc (Feb 24, 2018)

You can start gloating now Doon.


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## IanG (Feb 24, 2018)

woop woop - Edinburgh will be jumping tonight


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 24, 2018)

pokerjoke said:



			Yes but can they hold on
		
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Yes, yes they can! :whoo:


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## Imurg (Feb 24, 2018)

You just have to ask why Scotland can't play like that all the time...
Rubbish against Wales, immense against England....
Next time they'll be rubbish again....

And I suppose you deserve one for turning up for the last 9 years..:ears::clap::cheers:


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## upsidedown (Feb 24, 2018)

Awesome performance from Scotland


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 24, 2018)

Imurg said:



			You just have to ask why Scotland can't play like that all the time...
Rubbish against Wales, immense against England....
Next time they'll be rubbish again....

And I suppose you deserve one for turning up for the last 9 years..:ears::clap::cheers:
		
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It is ingrained in our sporting being.
Years of rubbish with sporadic outbreaks of sheer genius. 


For a wee country with only two professional rugby teams that was quite tidy. :lol:

Amazing the difference a decent referee makes to a game.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 24, 2018)

Can't take anything away from Scotland. England were second best and too many penalties conceded. Three tries conceded and only one back  shows we weren't capable and you have to wonder where this Scotland performance came from and why they can't do it regularly. When they are on, like today they will beat any of the teams in the six nation and give other nations a real game too


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## User62651 (Feb 24, 2018)

Imurg said:



			You just have to ask why Scotland can't play like that all the time...
Rubbish against Wales, immense against England....
*Next time they'll be rubbish again....
*
*And I suppose you deserve one for turning up for the last 9 years..:ears::clap::cheers:*

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Got a draw with your lot in 2010 and just won 2 in a row.


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## Captainron (Feb 24, 2018)

I LOVE IT WHEN ENGLAND LOSE!!!

:whoo:


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## Imurg (Feb 24, 2018)

maxfli65 said:



			Got a draw with your lot in 2010 and just won 2 in a row.

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According to the TV it's Scotland's first Calcutta Cup victory in 10 years.....


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## paddyc (Feb 24, 2018)

FairwayDodger said:



			Yes, yes they can! :whoo:
		
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Karenâ€™s very happyðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜€ðŸ˜€ðŸ˜€


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## User62651 (Feb 24, 2018)

Imurg said:



			According to the TV it's Scotland's first Calcutta Cup victory in 10 years.....
		
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2 matches in row (France and England) which was pointing out that your claim that 'we'll be rubbish next time' doesn't nescessarily stand. We must have turned up for the 2010 draw too.

We all know England are the better rugby nation but the odd loss won't do you any harm, refocus the troops etc. You're post came over as bitter despite the emojis! Your compatriots on here have all been very gracious in defeat.


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## Imurg (Feb 24, 2018)

maxfli65 said:



			2 matches in row (France and England) which was pointing out that your claim that 'we'll be rubbish next time' doesn't nescessarily stand. We must have turned up for the 2010 draw too.

We all know England are the better rugby nation but the odd loss won't do you any harm, refocus the troops etc. You're post came over as bitter despite the emojis! Your compatriots on here have all been very gracious in defeat.
		
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Disappointed - yeah!
Bitter? Life's too short.
You were rubbish against Wales but you played 300% better today and much better than England. 
What more do you want?
It wouldn't surprise me if Scotland play poorly next match, it's not a guarantee but they have form for this...


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## USER1999 (Feb 24, 2018)

Imurg said:



			Disappointed - yeah!
Bitter? Life's too short.
You were rubbish against Wales but you played 300% better today and much better than England. 
What more do you want?
It wouldn't surprise me if Scotland play poorly next match, it's not a guarantee but they have form for this...
		
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Yes please.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 24, 2018)

FairwayDodger said:



			Yes, yes they can! :whoo:
		
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They did and under a lot of 2 and half pressure.

If our try had stood it could have been a different story,a knock on in a tackle such a stupid rule.
Great tackle resulting in a well taken try chalked off.
Fair play to Scotland such a good first half performance and a little bit of luck thrown in too.:clap:


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 24, 2018)

Watched it in a pub, no idea of commentary or controversies. Scotland thoroughly out rucked England first half and that is where the game was won. Second half England had two early disallowed tries, correctly, but those fine margins changed the game. 

Scotland deserved it, they played superbly.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 24, 2018)

Captainron said:



			I LOVE IT WHEN ENGLAND LOSE!!!

:whoo:
		
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Doesn't everyone? :rofl:


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## User62651 (Feb 24, 2018)

murphthemog said:



			Yes please.
		
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What about the bigger picture?
Would it not help England's Six Nations title aspirations if Scotland played well next match (away to Ireland) and even won, however unlikley? Scotland's points difference is so poor after the Wales gubbing and with no bonus points that Ireland are your primary title opponents with the 2 bonus points so far. If Ireland beat Scotland they could come to Twickers and lose on the day yet still win the Six Nations. If Scotland beat Ireland that couldn't happen (as long as England can beat France too).
Or is seeing Scotland lose more satisfying to you than winning the 6 nations title?


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## USER1999 (Feb 24, 2018)

maxfli65 said:



			What about the bigger picture?
Would it not help England's Six Nations title aspirations if Scotland played well next match (away to Ireland) and even won, however unlikley? Scotland's points difference is so poor after the Wales gubbing and with no bonus points that Ireland are your primary title opponents with the 2 bonus points so far. If Ireland beat Scotland they could come to Twickers and lose on the day yet still win the Six Nations. If Scotland beat Ireland that couldn't happen (as long as England can beat France too).
Or is seeing Scotland lose more satisfying to you than winning the 6 nations title?

Click to expand...

But I am not an England rugby fan?


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## PieMan (Feb 24, 2018)

maxfli65 said:



			Your compatriots on here have all been very gracious in defeat.
		
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Can't believe we we're beaten by some two-bob inferior team and nation. Says something as to how wrong things are when we get a drubbing by 22 blokes for whom the national dress is, well, a glorified dress!! The sooner these countries know their place and revert back to recognising they're inferior to England and roll-over during sporting contests the better!!! 

Is that better for those on the Forum who are from North of the border? &#128521;&#128514;&#128514;

Just trying to inject a bit more Anti-English sentimentality on here! Can't believe some of my fellow countrymen have taken defeat so well and recognised the best team on the day won....and deservedly so!! &#128521;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 24, 2018)

My Llanelli cousin is telling me the Irish and Welsh supporters were letting rip with Flower of Scotland and I Wanna Be [500 miles] in the Dublin pubs.
I have nearly forgiven her now after last weeks merciless taunts.


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## HankMarvin (Feb 25, 2018)

FairwayDodger said:



			Doesn't everyone? :rofl:
		
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Oh Hell Yeah........


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 25, 2018)

It must be tiring being so bitter, so often. 

Does it hurt more if we tell Scots and Welsh fans that playing them is just another game? Nothing special, just a different fixture.


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 25, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It must be tiring being so bitter, so often. 

Does it hurt more if we tell Scots and Welsh fans that playing them is just another game? Nothing special, just a different fixture.
		
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Means a lot to us Scots as it is the oldest international fixture in the rugby world.
A bit like The Open in Golf.

I can understand England looking at it as just another game they should win easily.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 25, 2018)

Matt Dawson was on the radio on Friday. He was saying how both Wales and Scotland need to get past the emotion of playing and beating England as that is holding them back. He pointed out how Ireland believe they are good enough for the top table and can compete with the elite nations. They play England as equals each year and so beat them more often. Interesting comments.

After yesterday's performance Scotland have no excuses. That is the standard they have to meet every match now.


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## Lump (Feb 25, 2018)

Scotland second try was started with a forward pass. (don't believe me, go and look at the footage yourself)


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 25, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Matt Dawson was on the radio on Friday. He was saying how both Wales and Scotland need to get past the emotion of playing and beating England as that is holding them back. He pointed out how Ireland believe they are good enough for the top table and can compete with the elite nations. They play England as equals each year and so beat them more often. Interesting comments.

After yesterday's performance Scotland have no excuses. That is the standard they have to meet every match now.
		
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I think we Scots proved we could play on the World stage at the last World Cup. 
A dodgy last minute referee blunder just stopping us from making the final.
Perhaps Matt Dawson should have remembered that before making his patronising comments.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 25, 2018)

You are missing his point Doon. All the home nations can compete but some, Scotland, don't compete as much as they should due to inconsistencies. That is partly due to quality or depth but he was suggesting something else. He was actually complementary about Scotland but highlighting that they need to get back to the mental attitude of the Hastings era. They competed regularly and knew they should be. He wasn't being patronising.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 25, 2018)

Well Oh oh oh so sweet - made all the sweeter (who needs chariots) as I watched it with 4 lads in kilts and a piper giein it laldy - in a pub called The Albion 

woa oh ho it's magic - you know-oh-oh - gonna be three in a row...

well will be a very good three in a row if we beat Ireland in Dublin - but what the heck...dreeeeeeem - dream dream dream..,,


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## PieMan (Feb 25, 2018)

Yesterday showed just why the 6 Nations is so good when the home nations are playing each other - you just cannot take any game for granted given the historical aspects to each, particularly when England are playing the other 3 - and also France - away from Twickenham.

In that respect I always think it's harder for England to win a Grand Slam/Triple Crown/Calcutta cup, even with the playing depth and resources available to them.

But I think in the long run the result yesterday could end up being good for them. The great Woodward side blew 2 or 3 Grand Slams before getting it right in 03 and then backing that up in the World Cup final.

Ultimately it comes down to what's between the ears and how you cope when things aren't going your way. Scotland yesterday were immense in every department and England had no answers and were therefore lacking mentally. Hopefully they'll learn from that going forward and be mentally tougher.

Plus remember that a good win in France, and the same at Twickenham against Ireland and England win the Championship for 3 in a row. Unlikely I know given how food Ireland are playing, but a lot can happen in 3 weeks.


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## JT77 (Feb 25, 2018)

Was a disappointing result yesterday for England, very po9r start and only got going in the second half, seemed to lack ideas going forward and were slow at the breakdown. 
Nigel wasnâ€™t at his best yesterday, but he isnâ€™t the reason we lost, we lost as Scotland had more intensity first half and England were flat! 
Onwards and upwards, France next, the ireland, big games and see how we bounce back.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 25, 2018)

Is Val outta bed yet (did he actually get there?)


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## Val (Feb 25, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Is Val outta bed yet (did he actually get there?)
		
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Aw man, what a day. That has been a long time coming, weâ€™ve played against poorer England teams than that one and came up short. We deserved that victory and it makes that opening fixture in Cardiff all the more frustrating.

Met a few England fans who were very gracious in defeat and one in particular was great company in the bar afterwards ........ Gregg Wallace of Masterchef fame


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## GB72 (Feb 25, 2018)

A well deserved scotland win. I said the 6 nations is best with all teams playing well and aside from Italy any team can beat any other. At least the Tigers cheered me up today with an unexpected bonus point win. 

I think Wales gifted that game to Ireland. Biggar cannot play that expansive game that Scarlets play and it is no coincidence that Wales played better with the whole Scarlerts back line.


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## USER1999 (Feb 25, 2018)

GB72 said:



			A well deserved scotland win. I said the 6 nations is best with all teams playing well and aside from Italy any team can beat any other. At least the Tigers cheered me up today with an unexpected bonus point win. 

I think Wales gifted that game to Ireland. Biggar cannot play that expansive game that Scarlets play and it is no coincidence that Wales played better with the whole Scarlerts back line.
		
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But then Sextons kicking was off, so Ireland could have been out of sight early. Swings and roundabouts.


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 26, 2018)

Sounds like Nicola, JKR and Princess Anne all had a good time in the Scots dressing room after the game.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 26, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Sounds like Nicola, JKR and Princess Anne all had a good time in the Scots dressing room after the game.
		
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I thought all that type of stuff ended in the 1980's :rofl:


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## Val (Feb 26, 2018)

Lump said:



			Scotland second try was started with a forward pass. (don't believe me, go and look at the footage yourself)
		
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It isn't forward, this footage is pretty good

https://twitter.com/Scotlandteam/status/968098275415949312


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 26, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Sounds like Nicola, JKR and _*Princess Anne*_ all had a good time in the Scots dressing room after the game.
		
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Don't tell Finlay Calder - a _back in the day_ 'allegedly'


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## Val (Feb 26, 2018)

PieMan said:



			Yesterday showed just why the 6 Nations is so good when the home nations are playing each other - you just cannot take any game for granted given the historical aspects to each, particularly when England are playing the other 3 - and also France - away from Twickenham.

*In that respect I always think it's harder for England to win a Grand Slam/Triple Crown/Calcutta cup, even with the playing depth and resources available to them.
*
But I think in the long run the result yesterday could end up being good for them. The great Woodward side blew 2 or 3 Grand Slams before getting it right in 03 and then backing that up in the World Cup final.

Ultimately it comes down to what's between the ears and how you cope when things aren't going your way. Scotland yesterday were immense in every department and England had no answers and were therefore lacking mentally. Hopefully they'll learn from that going forward and be mentally tougher.

Plus remember that a good win in France, and the same at Twickenham against Ireland and England win the Championship for 3 in a row. Unlikely I know given how food Ireland are playing, but a lot can happen in 3 weeks.
		
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Why is it harder for England than any other side? It's the same for every team, when Scotland get England and France at home they have tough trips away in Wales and Ireland (and Italy i suppose) then you have how the fixtures pan out and as we know, momentum is king in the 6 nations.

I would argue it was potentially easier for England this year as the fixture list was kind, starting away to Italy before getting Wales at home and then up to Scotland to play a side they haven't lost to in that ground for 10 years then a French side who are a bit of a basket case and have been for years.


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## Val (Feb 26, 2018)

GB72 said:



			A well deserved scotland win. I said the 6 nations is best with all teams playing well and aside from Italy any team can beat any other. At least the Tigers cheered me up today with an unexpected bonus point win. 

I think Wales gifted that game to Ireland. Biggar cannot play that expansive game that Scarlets play and it is no coincidence that Wales played better with the whole Scarlerts back line.
		
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Have you kept an eye on Cockerills Edinburgh? He's got them playing very well and becoming very difficult to beat.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 26, 2018)

On saturday after the game in my head I was back in Edinburgh - bouncing along the road back to the city centre - into The Rutland (as it was) for the first of many - before grabbing some nosh somewhere - anywhere - up Lothian Rd.  Then across to the High Street and it was always Deacon Brodies for a mighty sing-song - then after many a sunken pint finishing up in The Last Drop in the Grassmarket to round off the day - and another great sing-song as all our party of 50 gathered together from wherever we'd scattered to after the game - prior to the midnght coach back to Glasgow.

That was a long time ago mind - my last Murrayfield was the 1984 Grand Slam game against France - when I bought my ticket on the coach for double the face value.  It cost me a princely Â£10.  Quite.  But I was happy to pay that as I'd saved money for a ticket by hitch-hiking to Glasgow from Bristol as I'd only just recently moved to Bristol and was skint.

Great days.  rather fancy getting back to going (have to buy a place in Embra first though)


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## MegaSteve (Mar 1, 2018)

I don't care too much for EJ... But this is unpardonable...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43235314


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## Scoobiesnax (Mar 1, 2018)

MegaSteve said:



			I don't care too much for EJ... But this is unpardonable...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43235314

Click to expand...

This is an absolute disgrace.  I'm sure these brave individuals/group of lads would have been so forthcoming with their views if a few of his team were with him!


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## upsidedown (Mar 1, 2018)

MegaSteve said:



			I don't care too much for EJ... But this is unpardonable...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43235314

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Disgusting behaviour


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 1, 2018)

Val said:



			Have you kept an eye on Cockerills Edinburgh? He's got them playing very well and becoming very difficult to beat.
		
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I watched the last Edinburgh v Glasgow game - near 24,000 in Murrayfield on a cold Saturday evening 23rd December.  And Embra won at the death - there was me thinking that Glascu were the top boys - they just didn't turn up - that said the Embra pack were good.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 1, 2018)

I must confess to saying that I thought Cockerill was a poor choice for Edinburgh.
Happy to be proved wrong.


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## Val (Mar 1, 2018)

MegaSteve said:



			I don't care too much for EJ... But this is unpardonable...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43235314

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Itâ€™s shameful, absolutely shocking


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## Val (Mar 1, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I watched the last Edinburgh v Glasgow game - near 24,000 in Murrayfield on a cold Saturday evening 23rd December.  And Embra won at the death - there was me thinking that Glascu were the top boys - they just didn't turn up - that said the Embra pack were good.
		
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You didnâ€™t see the second leg I take it?


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## Val (Mar 1, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I must confess to saying that I thought Cockerill was a poor choice for Edinburgh.
Happy to be proved wrong.
		
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He been good and on track to get Edinburgh into the playoffs


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## User62651 (Mar 1, 2018)

Scoobiesnax said:



			This is an absolute disgrace.  I'm sure these brave individuals/group of lads would have been so forthcoming with their views if a few of his team were with him!
		
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Very true and embarrassing for us, very neddy behaviour which has gone beyond exuberance, not what you associate with rugby normally. Surprised at EJ not going home as part of a group.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 1, 2018)

maxfli65 said:



			Very true and embarrassing for us, very neddy behaviour which has gone beyond exuberance, not what you associate with rugby normally. Surprised at EJ not going home as part of a group.
		
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He went to Manchester as a special guest of Sir Alex for the Man Utd v Chelsea game.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 10, 2018)

Probable Championship decider this afternoon.
Can't see the Scots getting past Ireland but, you never know.
I hope Ireland open it up and give us a great game.


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## Val (Mar 10, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Probable Championship decider this afternoon.
Can't see the Scots getting past Ireland but, you never know.
I hope Ireland open it up and give us a great game.
		
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Itâ€™s only the decider if Ireland win, canâ€™t see Scotland getting a sniff but we live in hope. Poor forecast suggests it could be an arm wrestle rather than a throwing it about day.

Iâ€™m on my way to Hoggys new bar & restaurant to watch the game


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 10, 2018)

Cracking first half, quite fancy Scotland to nick this.


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## Imurg (Mar 10, 2018)

Are you Homer in disguise..:rofl:


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## Captainron (Mar 10, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Cracking first half, quite fancy Scotland to nick this.
		
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Itâ€™s going to need Ireland to commit suicide 4 times now. More chance of Nicola Sturgon becoming a super model


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## PieMan (Mar 10, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Cracking first half, quite fancy Scotland to nick this.
		
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&#128514;&#128514; - No chance. Cannot see them scoring 3 tries against this Ireland outfit. Being given a lesson this week.


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## PieMan (Mar 10, 2018)

PieMan said:



			&#128514;&#128514; - No chance. Cannot see them scoring 3 tries against this Ireland outfit. Being given a lesson this week.
		
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Hold on a minute - I may have been too quick on the 'no chance'.......!! &#128543;


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## Captainron (Mar 10, 2018)

Horn makes 2 or 3 shocking decisions over 80 minutes every week. If he could keep his composure a bit more he would be superb


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## Captainron (Mar 10, 2018)

Down to England to win well now but I hope the French stuff them


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## Captainron (Mar 10, 2018)

Well done Ireland. Deserved that. On to Twickenham for the grand slam.


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## Val (Mar 10, 2018)

Scoreline glattered Ireland I thought, small margins. Scotland need to go and beat Italy in the last game and for me thatâ€™s progression. Beating both England and France and losing away to Wales and Ireland is no shame. Many and Grand slam have nbeen ruined at both stadiums


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 10, 2018)

Val said:



			Scoreline glattered Ireland I thought, small margins. Scotland need to go and beat Italy in the last game and for me thatâ€™s progression. Beating both England and France and losing away to Wales and Ireland is no shame. Many and Grand slam have nbeen ruined at both stadiums
		
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I watched the second half of the French game in an hotel TV room which was half full of visiting English golfers and half full of locals.
The locals were impeccably behaved apart from the sleekit wee winks and smiles. The visitors were very vocal.:lol:

Well played Ireland, quality team of the tournament, hope they do the grand slam.
Scotland had plenty of chances but unfortunately none came off, small margins eh. Brave attacking rugby played by both sides.


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## User62651 (Mar 10, 2018)

I didn't watch rugby, not really my game, but 28-8 is a bit of a gubbing for Scotland is it not? Saw it was 7-3 near half time, what happened?

England lost away to France, no shame in that and Eddie Jones says they're not far away - is he right? 2 defeats for England, possibly 3 after Ireland visit is nowhere near good enough is it?


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 10, 2018)

Watched the Ireland v Scotland game in the bar (in the company of some happy Irishmen) and no-one really felt the scoreline was a true reflection. Ireland more clinical with their chances and of course an intercepted try always going to hurt. As for England, that's two sub-par performances now and they look nothing like the second best ranked side in the world


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## User20205 (Mar 10, 2018)

maxfli65 said:



			I didn't watch rugby, not really my game, but 28-8 is a bit of a gubbing for Scotland is it not? Saw it was 7-3 near half time, what happened?

England lost away to France, no shame in that and Eddie Jones says they're not far away - is he right? 2 defeats for England, possibly 3 after Ireland visit is nowhere near good enough is it?
		
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England arenâ€™t far away. Donâ€™t believe the cut & paste merchants. If they can keep the ball for more than 5 phases they will score plenty tries. Problem is currently they canâ€™t!!


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 11, 2018)

The last round of matches may produce a surprising look to the final table.


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## Val (Mar 11, 2018)

maxfli65 said:



			I didn't watch rugby, not really my game, but 28-8 is a bit of a gubbing for Scotland is it not? Saw it was 7-3 near half time, what happened?

England lost away to France, no shame in that and Eddie Jones says they're not far away - is he right? 2 defeats for England, possibly 3 after Ireland visit is nowhere near good enough is it?
		
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Scorline flattered Ireland IMO, the key difference was they were clinical and Scotland a bit sloppy when it mattered


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## MegaSteve (Mar 11, 2018)

therod said:



			England arenâ€™t far away. Donâ€™t believe the cut & paste merchants. If they can keep the ball for more than 5 phases they will score plenty tries. Problem is currently they canâ€™t!!
		
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Some credit should be afforded to the Roosters as they played to their current strengths shutting England out for large passages of the game... It wasn't just about England coming up short... Hate to say this but I think 'we' missed Hartley...


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## JT77 (Mar 11, 2018)

Think we have been missing Youngâ€™s more, he was in great form before the injury for England, definitely a catalyst in attack.


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 11, 2018)

JT77 said:



			Think we have been missing Youngâ€™s more, he was in great form before the injury for England, definitely a catalyst in attack.
		
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Probably the nub of the issue.
I also think Dan Cole has been looking a little out of sorts, with Sinckler looking when he was given a chance.


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## USER1999 (Mar 11, 2018)

Stockdale looks to be a useful find.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 11, 2018)

murphthemog said:



			Stockdale looks to be a useful find.
		
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The Ireland back three were superb yesterday.


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## JamesR (Mar 11, 2018)

MegaSteve said:



			Some credit should be afforded to the Roosters as they played to their current strengths shutting England out for large passages of the game... It wasn't just about England coming up short... Hate to say this but I think 'we' missed Hartley...
		
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I thought France were crap, problem was that we were worse. Poor scrum, couldnâ€™t win line out & we still couldnâ€™t beat them.


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## JamesR (Mar 11, 2018)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Probably the nub of the issue.
I also think Dan Cole has been looking a little out of sorts, with Sinckler looking when he was given a chance.
		
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Several players looked knackered to me - Mako, Launchbury, Lawes in particular.
Ford lacked direction and Care was too slow when ball was available.


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## GB72 (Mar 12, 2018)

No excuses, we were sub standard. Never helps playing without a recognised 7 and a second row at 6. This resulted in slow ball and so the backs had little chance. Exactly the same problems that the Tigers had until we brought in a forwards coach. We are now getting ball on the front foot and scoring again. 

Have to agree about players looking tired. You have a few in there who have played full club campaigns, then a lions tour, then back to club rugby then on to the 6 Nations. It is too much. Dan Cole has also been playing a lot of minutes for a prop for both club and country. 

Care has always played better as an impact sub than a starter and so we are missing Youngs. Sadly Eddie does not seem to want to pick any of the talented young scrum halves and has a safe option as back up. 

Joseph is also very out of form and Teo is a one trick pony. How someone with the talent of Slade cannot get on the pitch amazes me.


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## Val (Mar 12, 2018)

GB72 said:



			No excuses, we were sub standard. Never helps playing without a recognised 7 and a second row at 6. This resulted in slow ball and so the backs had little chance. Exactly the same problems that the Tigers had until we brought in a forwards coach. We are now getting ball on the front foot and scoring again. 

Have to agree about players looking tired. You have a few in there who have played full club campaigns, then a lions tour, then back to club rugby then on to the 6 Nations. It is too much. Dan Cole has also been playing a lot of minutes for a prop for both club and country. 

Care has always played better as an impact sub than a starter and so we are missing Youngs. Sadly Eddie does not seem to want to pick any of the talented young scrum halves and has a safe option as back up. 

Joseph is also very out of form and Teo is a one trick pony. How someone with the talent of Slade cannot get on the pitch amazes me.
		
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Summed up extremely well. Have to say, how Slade doesn't break into that team is beyond me. Seen him twice when watching Chiefs in earnest and he impressed both times.


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## fundy (Mar 12, 2018)

GB72 said:



			No excuses, we were sub standard. Never helps playing without a recognised 7 and a second row at 6. This resulted in slow ball and so the backs had little chance. Exactly the same problems that the Tigers had until we brought in a forwards coach. We are now getting ball on the front foot and scoring again. 

Have to agree about players looking tired. You have a few in there who have played full club campaigns, then a lions tour, then back to club rugby then on to the 6 Nations. It is too much. Dan Cole has also been playing a lot of minutes for a prop for both club and country. 

Care has always played better as an impact sub than a starter and so we are missing Youngs. Sadly Eddie does not seem to want to pick any of the talented young scrum halves and has a safe option as back up. 

Joseph is also very out of form and Teo is a one trick pony. How someone with the talent of Slade cannot get on the pitch amazes me.
		
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Jones really doesnt seem fussed about the breakdown enough for me and this is the big hurdle we need to overcome. We just dont win enough of the breakdowns and certainly dont win them quick enough. Has been a trend to not picking a proper 7 that I just dont think you can get away with against good international sides, that said there isnt a huge supply of them making strong claims.

Injuries and fatigue are a massive factor, shelf life of a rugby international swiftly headed the way of NFL players. Take Billy V, been a massive miss but I wouldnt be surprised if hes never fully fit again the amount of big impacts his body has been through the last few seasons. Hes by far the only one and the problem isnt going to get better unless they revisit the maximum number of games situation and also ensure that every player gets a proper break each year


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 12, 2018)

A much better defeat than the Wales one at the outset.  Bleedin' frustrating.  I was able to push the sofa back against the wall on Saturday - against Wales it stayed out and I was hiding behind it.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 12, 2018)

Val said:



			You didnâ€™t see the second leg I take it?
		
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No I didn't - must go look see.  I have to muster up some enthusiasm for Embra if my wife will have us living there rather than Glasgow.  would much rather be in Dowanhill/Hyndland just minutes walk from Glasgow's ground - but my wife isn't so much for Glasgow these days.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 12, 2018)

Val said:



			Scorline flattered Ireland IMO, the key difference was they were clinical and Scotland a bit sloppy when it mattered
		
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But it was great that we made so many clear chances - in footie parlance - sitters...though not quite open goals...


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## GB72 (Mar 12, 2018)

fundy said:



			Jones really doesnt seem fussed about the breakdown enough for me and this is the big hurdle we need to overcome. We just dont win enough of the breakdowns and certainly dont win them quick enough. Has been a trend to not picking a proper 7 that I just dont think you can get away with against good international sides, that said there isnt a huge supply of them making strong claims.

Injuries and fatigue are a massive factor, shelf life of a rugby international swiftly headed the way of NFL players. Take Billy V, been a massive miss but I wouldnt be surprised if hes never fully fit again the amount of big impacts his body has been through the last few seasons. Hes by far the only one and the problem isnt going to get better unless they revisit the maximum number of games situation and also ensure that every player gets a proper break each year
		
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O'Connor at Tigers is England qualified and is starting to show some real form. A true 7


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 17, 2018)

Wow, Some game that.
Well played Italy and jammy dodgers to Scotland.

I think that is 38 tries from the last 10 games from Scotland.
A few years ago they could not buy one.

I could not get it out of my head that the main ITV commentator was either Smashy or Nicey


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## Imurg (Mar 17, 2018)

I think Scotland were quite fortunate..
One of their tries came from a rolling mail and, at one point, a Scots forward rejoined the mail in front of the ball. I always thought you had to join from behind and even the commentator spotted it and mentioned it but neither the ref or linesman saw it and it didn't get reviewed...
That and the microscopic knock on from Italy that did get seen.......
Such are tight matches won and lost.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 17, 2018)

Imurg said:



			I think Scotland were quite fortunate..
One of their tries came from a rolling mail and, at one point, a Scots forward rejoined the mail in front of the ball. I always thought you had to join from behind and even the commentator spotted it and mentioned it but neither the ref or linesman saw it and it didn't get reviewed...
That and the microscopic knock on from Italy that did get seen.......
Such are tight matches won and lost.
		
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Swings and roundabouts.
It went the other way for Scotland in the Irish game.

Well played Ireland, they hardly broke into a sweat in that second half.


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## upsidedown (Mar 17, 2018)

Well done Ireland worthy Grand Slam


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## bladeplayer (Mar 17, 2018)

Big future for that squad great panel of guys


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## JamesR (Mar 17, 2018)

bladeplayer said:



			Big future for that squad great panel of guys
		
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Well played Ireland, the better team. But good to see some improvements from England.

How good is Furlong?


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## Foxholer (Mar 17, 2018)

upsidedown said:



			Well done Ireland worthy Grand Slam 

Click to expand...

+1!

Englnd have got a lot of soul searching to do - not just from the players!


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## Old Skier (Mar 17, 2018)

There was no way Ireland were going to lose that one even if England's manager was only joking.


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## Colin L (Mar 17, 2018)

There will be many a sore head in Ireland tomorrow!  What better day to win the Grand Slam than St Patrick's Day?


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## BrianM (Mar 17, 2018)

Well done Ireland, worthy winners.
Although Scotland scraped through today, they still won and thatâ€™s all that matters.
Would of taken 3rd position at start of tournament in my opinion.


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## bladeplayer (Mar 17, 2018)

JamesR said:



			Well played Ireland, the better team. But good to see some improvements from England.

How good is Furlong?
		
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Class but fact we can fill any position with a player as good . Alot of young guys getting perfect experience . 
Jones saying some eng players played their last game .. hartley . Brown ? 

That young boy that played on wing for england u20 is a special talent . Fair quick


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 17, 2018)

Well done Ireland. Richly deserved and hope the heads aren't too bad tomorrow. Third defeat in the six nations and only Italy behind England. This doesn't look like an England side capable of competing in the world cup and if this is suppose to be part of the build up it's not going well so far.


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## JamesR (Mar 17, 2018)

bladeplayer said:



			Class but fact we can fill any position with a player as good . Alot of young guys getting perfect experience . 
Jones saying some eng players played their last game .. hartley . Brown ? 

That young boy that played on wing for england u20 is a special talent . Fair quick
		
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Iâ€™m not sure anyone, other than maybe NZ, could fill any position with a player as good as Furlong. He could well be the best prop in the world.

Ibitoie (sp?) does look potentially very special, as does Earl, Englandâ€™s openside.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 18, 2018)

Population of the top three in the table approx.... 14.5m
Population of the bottom three approx. 170m.

'Mon the wee guys


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## Old Skier (Mar 18, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			'Mon the wee guys
		
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To true, population of the top two much lower than the 3rd place country.


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## Beezerk (Mar 18, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Population of the top three in the table approx.... 14.5m
Population of the bottom three approx. 170m.

'Mon the wee guys
		
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True, but a lot of England doesn't give a hoot about rugby, not now anyway 
It seems to be a mainly South/South Western thing from what I've seen, you go over the border to Scotland and Wales and the first thing you notice is rugby posts everywhere. So essentially the rugby playing population of England is probably smaller than the top three


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 18, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			True, but a lot of England doesn't give a hoot about rugby, not now anyway 
It seems to be a mainly South/South Western thing from what I've seen, you go over the border to Scotland and Wales and the first thing you notice is rugby posts everywhere. So essentially the rugby playing population of England is probably smaller than the top three 

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I read somewhere that England had nearly 1.8m registered rugby players and Scotland had about 60k.
Seemed like a very high figure for England.

Rugby posts seem to outnumber football posts in Scotland nowadays.


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## Old Skier (Mar 18, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I read somewhere that England had nearly 1.8m registered rugby players and Scotland had about 60k.
Seemed like a very high figure for England.

Rugby posts seem to outnumber football posts in Scotland nowadays.
		
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Not even 1m in England but the figures don't tend to matter when you look here


https://www.ruck.co.uk/top-20-country-registered-rugby-players-world/


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## GB72 (Mar 18, 2018)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Well done Ireland. Richly deserved and hope the heads aren't too bad tomorrow. Third defeat in the six nations and only Italy behind England. This doesn't look like an England side capable of competing in the world cup and if this is suppose to be part of the build up it's not going well so far.
		
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This being the same England side that reached number 2 in the world, won the last 2 6 nations, beat australia on their home turf, beat argentina in argentina with a b team won all 3 autumn internationals and provided 16 players to the lions team. That is a poor team.

Not taking anything away from the other teams. Ireland were very good and consistent, Scotland played a blinder against us and Wales were solid. 

Fatigue may have been a massive factor for England. Key players have been flat out for a few years now and historically england never have a good 6 nations after a lions tour. Injuries may have actually helped  Wales who had to rest or replace their fatigued lions players.

Yes we have some catching up to do but it seems churlish tto i write off a team that only a few months ago people were calling to play new zealand as a best in the world decider.


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## DCB (Mar 18, 2018)

I find it really funny that fatigue is rolled out as an excuse for being beaten in any sporting context. These are professional sportsmen,  if they can't last a season and all that brings then there is something wrong. 

Surely if a player is that tired from playing rugby, in this instance, then his team should be rotating him with others in the pool . Fatigue is bound to be affecting their team performance on a game by game basis as a result.


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## GB72 (Mar 18, 2018)

It is a factor. Look at Farrell. He has played over 1000 minutes of rugby since the lions tour whereas Sexton has played about 400. Playing un the Premiership with no central contract protection is much more rigorous than the Anglo/Welsh. It is not an excuse, just s fact. England rarely perform in the year after a lions tour and the french normally shine.


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## bladeplayer (Mar 18, 2018)

Irelands 6 nations was ni the balance a few times if truth b told
Sextons drop goal against france 
Stockdales intercept try against wales turned a 3 to 1match losing  overlap into a winning score 
Wales no try against eng
Scotland messed up 2 glorious  try scoring chances .. 

Not too much between most of teams on their day 
Irl have strongest 25 tho i think


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## GB72 (Mar 18, 2018)

bladeplayer said:



			Irelands 6 nations was ni the balance a few times if truth b told
Sextons drop goal against france 
Stockdales intercept try against wales turned a 3 to 1match losing  overlap into a winning score 
Wales no try against eng
Scotland messed up 2 glorious  try scoring chances .. 

Not too much between most of teams on their day 
Irl have strongest 25 tho i think
		
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Fair assessment.


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## fundy (Mar 18, 2018)

DCB said:



			I find it really funny that fatigue is rolled out as an excuse for being beaten in any sporting context. These are professional sportsmen,  if they can't last a season and all that brings then there is something wrong. 

Surely if a player is that tired from playing rugby, in this instance, then his team should be rotating him with others in the pool . Fatigue is bound to be affecting their team performance on a game by game basis as a result.
		
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What is wrong is the level of collisions these guys are going through over and over again without sufficient rest in between games and for some without a proper off season. The physical requirements on a rugby players body has increased out of sight ever since the game became professional and only continues to do so. Careers are getting shorter and shorter and will continue to do so unless the powers that be see sense and put quality before quantity and put some proper safeguards in place for the longevity of these guys.

Take a look for eg at the schedule some of the Saracens players have had for the last couple of years is eye watering, premier rugby, play offs, european cup, autumn internationals, six nations, lions tour etc. Those that havent had any injury breaks can only be running on empty

Massive difference between an impact sport player being fatigued and a non impact sport player imho


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## DCB (Mar 18, 2018)

So, the professional teams need to have bigger pools to avoid the injuries that come along in the modern game. If injury, fatigue and shortened playing career are all prevalent in today's game, then ther is a fundamental flaw in the way the game is administered and played. Something needs to change.


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## fundy (Mar 18, 2018)

DCB said:



			So, the professional teams need to have bigger pools to avoid the injuries that come along in the modern game. If injury, fatigue and shortened playing career are all prevalent in today's game, then ther is a fundamental flaw in the way the game is administered and played. Something needs to change.
		
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there is without doubt a fundamental flaw in the way it is currently administered, huge financial increases in a short period of time has led to much more short termism, and ultimately the quality of the product and the fitness of the players are what suffer and will continue to do so

Have a look at how many non international games an england fast bowler plays compared to an england forward for example. At some stage the country v club battle has got to be further discussed and the top players appearances restricted much more than they currently are

as for professional clubs having larger pools of players, thats all well and good but the majority already have much increased playing pools and are running at losses or struggling to keep the heads above water


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## GB72 (Mar 18, 2018)

DCB said:



			So, the professional teams need to have bigger pools to avoid the injuries that come along in the modern game. If injury, fatigue and shortened playing career are all prevalent in today's game, then ther is a fundamental flaw in the way the game is administered and played. Something needs to change.
		
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That is all correct and the running of the game is awful. Troubleis you have a salary cap in place pushed by increasing wages hyped up by countries with no cap so the option to increase squad sizes is limited. Yh5e big problem is the summer and autumn internationals  but remove them and the only international rugby outside of the 6 nations will be the world cup. You could ditch the lions but that is a massive cadh cow for southern hemisphere nations struggling for funding. You could cut the number of teams in the premiership  but the turkeys aint going to vote for xmas. You are then left with the option of devaluing the club game with central contracts and up with something like cricket where the big names are hardly seen.

Rugby does need to do something but it is not an easy question to answer. My thought is to stop the clock when the ball leaves play and reduce the number of subs. Then players would need to focus more on stamina and could not carry the bulk and muscle they di at the moment


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 18, 2018)

There was a big chat about player fatigue and central contracts on r5 today. Basically, the Irish set up is bang on, central contracts and the players get a proper recovery. Wales are nearly there, Scotland wasn't mentioned so I can't pass that on. England have the worst situation where the club's have the power. Problem is the club set up is now entrenched.

Everyone recognised the issue for England, no one could see it changing.

None of the above is to take away from Ireland's win. They are a world class side and have been for some time.


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## Val (Mar 18, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			There was a big chat about player fatigue and central contracts on r5 today. Basically, the Irish set up is bang on, central contracts and the players get a proper recovery. Wales are nearly there, Scotland wasn't mentioned so I can't pass that on. England have the worst situation where the club's have the power. Problem is the club set up is now entrenched.

Everyone recognised the issue for England, no one could see it changing.

None of the above is to take away from Ireland's win. They are a world class side and have been for some time.
		
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Players playing for Glasgow or Edinburgh are on central contracts with the SRU


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 19, 2018)

Val said:



			Players playing for Glasgow or Edinburgh are on central contracts with the SRU
		
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Thanks Val. So Scotland have it right as well. Only England where clubs win out over country.


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## Val (Mar 19, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Thanks Val. So Scotland have it right as well. Only England where clubs win out over country.
		
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I maybe wrong in numbers only but I believe that Scottish International players only play 5 club games in a row before being rested and rotated by the clubs unless there are injuries to others which may necessitate their inclusion into match day 23's.

Other international players in Scotland play when required, they don't get such luxury


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## Old Skier (Mar 19, 2018)

Rugby going the same way as football, it's all about money now. Club fans now getting fed up when their best players are not available for important club matches.


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## Val (Mar 19, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			Rugby going the same way as football, *it's all about money now*. Club fans now getting fed up when their best players are not available for important club matches.
		
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Only in the 2 powerhouse leagues in Europe, England and France. Less so in the Pro14.


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## GB72 (Mar 19, 2018)

England missed the chance for centralised contracts when the game went professional. Sadly that horse has bolted. 

The salary pressure from the big French teams and the constant calls from certain premiership clubs to up the salary cap has resulted in a dramatic increase in player wages and that has resulted in reduced squad sizes. The constant need to win means that the main players are on the pitch every week rather than rotated. 

The big problem, however, is the constant demand at international level to win every time you send out an England team. In reality we should be trying out new players and new combinations in both the summer tour and most of the Autumn internationals but to do so and lose results in a lambasting in the press, calls for sackings etc. Also harder to fill the grounds with a reserve team out.  As such, the same squad goes out every time and fatigue kicks in.

Rugby has a problem in that the human body simply cannot take the demands that the sport puts on it over and extended period. There needs to be a massive re-think about the way the game is run to remove some of impact on the players. I can only think of a couple of options:

1. A limited number of games that players can be picked for England in a year. It is unreasonable for clubs to take on all of the pressures associated with resting players. As such, (perhaps only in non world cup years), internationals are limited to playing a set number of tests per year. 

2. You adopt the New Zealand approach. Players are allowed off on a sabbatical after the world cup to just play club rugby wherever they want. They then head back to New Zealand the year before to focus on international duty. 

3. You change the rules. At present players can bulk up and focus on impact because there are many in built breaks in the game and a large number of subs to players can dictate how long they are on the pitch for. If you stop the clock when the ball leaves play or reduce the number of subs then players will need to train for stamina and not power. This should result in smaller players, less severe hits and less injuries. 

4. You reduce the number of subs so as you cannot plan on half the team only playing 60 minutes. Again, this will move the focus to stamina over bulk. 

5. You go the other way and have rolling subs and reduce fatigue and injury through less time on the pitch. 

Thing is, something does need to change as rugby at the moment is almost becoming unplayable.


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## Foxholer (Mar 19, 2018)

GB72 said:



			England missed the chance for centralised contracts when the game went professional. Sadly that horse has bolted. 

The salary pressure from the big French teams and the constant calls from certain premiership clubs to up the salary cap has resulted in a dramatic increase in player wages and that has resulted in reduced squad sizes. The constant need to win means that the main players are on the pitch every week rather than rotated. 

The big problem, however, is the constant demand at international level to win every time you send out an England team. In reality we should be trying out new players and new combinations in both the summer tour and most of the Autumn internationals but to do so and lose results in a lambasting in the press, calls for sackings etc. Also harder to fill the grounds with a reserve team out.  As such, the same squad goes out every time and fatigue kicks in.

Rugby has a problem in that the human body simply cannot take the demands that the sport puts on it over and extended period. There needs to be a massive re-think about the way the game is run to remove some of impact on the players. I can only think of a couple of options:

1. A limited number of games that players can be picked for England in a year. It is unreasonable for clubs to take on all of the pressures associated with resting players. As such, (perhaps only in non world cup years), internationals are limited to playing a set number of tests per year. 

2. You adopt the New Zealand approach. Players are allowed off on a sabbatical after the world cup to just play club rugby wherever they want. They then head back to New Zealand the year before to focus on international duty. 

3. You change the rules. At present players can bulk up and focus on impact because there are many in built breaks in the game and a large number of subs to players can dictate how long they are on the pitch for. If you stop the clock when the ball leaves play or reduce the number of subs then players will need to train for stamina and not power. This should result in smaller players, less severe hits and less injuries. 

4. You reduce the number of subs so as you cannot plan on half the team only playing 60 minutes. Again, this will move the focus to stamina over bulk. 

5. You go the other way and have rolling subs and reduce fatigue and injury through less time on the pitch. 

Thing is, something does need to change as rugby at the moment is almost becoming unplayable.
		
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All good stuff that I generally agree with, but doesn't answer the basic question of 'Why has England's performance been so, comparatively, poor?'. The one glaring difference is the amount of Rugby England players have had compared to the other Unions. And most of that is down to the Central vs Club contracts!

I don't believe 'the horse has bolted' in this at all! I don't believe there is any way other Unions are going to allow the sort of (rule) changes you are proposing when it's *only a problem for England - and one of their own making!*


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## GB72 (Mar 19, 2018)

Not sure some of it is just an England problem. The stresses on the body do need addressing. You cannot keep letting players get bigger and hit harder. 

But you are right. The simplest solution would be fir England to use more of their playing resources on thr understanding that some games will be lost but some gems will be found as well.


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## fundy (Mar 19, 2018)

GB72 said:



			Not sure some of it is just an England problem. The stresses on the body do need addressing. You cannot keep letting players get bigger and hit harder. 

But you are right. The simplest solution would be fir England to use more of their playing resources on thr understanding that some games will be lost but some gems will be found as well.
		
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Its sort of self defeating to some degree though, because the more you limit the number of games an individual can play the higher the pace/tempo and size of hits become and hence the stresses on the body. Think you hit the nail on the head earlier with regard to a greater emphasis back towards stamina requirements, you know when you hear a coach saying that a front row forward should never be playing 80 minutes then the current emphasis is way off track sadly

How many games is too many? Available games in a season seems to be premiership (22 games max), play offs (3) , european games (9) , autumn internationals (5) , 6 nations (5) and potentially a summer tour. (5 on a lions tour?) 

So a top flight player could be playing 25 games before you include his home league appearances (and i expect Farrell did in the last 12 months!) which just cant be close to sustainable, especially when even a playmaker is expected to be far more physical than used to be (compare to the protection a quarter back gets in nfl for eg and relatively how short their season is)

At the moment neither England nor the clubs are about to back down and the product and especially the players are the ones that will suffer


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 22, 2018)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43452261

Team of the series.......can't really argue with that although I thought Hamish Watson may have been in.


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## Val (Mar 22, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43452261

Team of the series.......can't really argue with that although I thought Hamish Watson may have been in.
		
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From a purely Scottish perspective I think Leavy deserves to be ahead of Watson but reckon Jonny Gray would replace AWJ and Stuart McInally replace Rory Best, other than that I wouldnâ€™t argue


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 22, 2018)

Val said:



			From a purely Scottish perspective I think Leavy deserves to be ahead of Watson but reckon Jonny Gray would replace AWJ and Stuart McInally replace Rory Best, other than that I wouldnâ€™t argue
		
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Gray[J] never gets the recognition he deserves, time after time he comes off the pitch with the 'most tackles made'.
Generally plays the full 80 mins as well.
McInally had a superb series.
Never been a great fan of AWJ but he seemed to play well this series.


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## Dibby (Mar 23, 2018)

The below table highlights the overuse of English players.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 23, 2018)

Dibby said:



			The below table highlights the overuse of English players.

View attachment 24674

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Poor wee souls.
Most of them will be millionaires though.:lol:


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## Rooter (Mar 23, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Poor wee souls.
Most of them will be millionaires though.:lol:
		
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Really? they are not footballers!!! While some will be, and most will be paid well! Its nowhere near the realms of the football equivalents. Take Owen Farrel, he gets 750k a year, he is probably one of the best paid in the squad, compare him with Harry Kane for example...


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