# Would lie need to change if length changes?



## slicer79 (Jan 21, 2013)

This might be a simple question but does lie need to change if length of club changes?

my current 6 iron is 37.75 inches long and lie is 61. This seems to suit well. 

Was just curious if i had a new set where 6 iron was something like 37.5 then does the lie need to be adjusted or should it remain at 61?

also is there such a thing as standard lie, i often hear clubs described as upright or flat but what is standard? Where are mine in terms of standard?


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## MGL (Jan 21, 2013)

The lie angle will automatically change if clubs are lengthened. Only slightly but it will change. There is no such thing as standard lie as all the manufacturers generally are different. 

The lie angle that is correct for you can only be tested dynamically - i.e. via a pro or fitter on a lie board hitting golf balls. There are one or two other ways to test for lie angle, but this is the most common way. Some will get you to hit one club and make assumptions as to what the rest should be but the best way is to test every club.


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## slicer79 (Jan 21, 2013)

Ok thanks, i'm pretty clueless at this type of stuff. 

Another question here, suppose the length remained at 37.75 but the lie changed from 61 to 60 what effect could this have on your shots? Or is such a tiny change not very significant


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## HawkeyeMS (Jan 21, 2013)

slicer79 said:



			Ok thanks, i'm pretty clueless at this type of stuff. 

Another question here, suppose the length remained at 37.75 but the lie changed from 61 to 60 what effect could this have on your shots? Or is such a tiny change not very significant
		
Click to expand...

Reducing the lie would mean the sole of the club would hit the ground closer to the heal. This, as I undrstand it, could cause the face to close making your shot go left. But I am no expert either


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 21, 2013)

MGL said:



			The lie angle will automatically change if clubs are lengthened.
		
Click to expand...

Er, no it won't.  Cutting length from or adding length to a shaft will not alter the angle between the hosel and the sole.  What it will affect is the "effective lie".

If you remember your schoolboy trigonometry about right angled triangles, and assuming that the club is grounded normally, your 37.75" shaft will place the end of the grip x inches vertically above the ground.  If you keep the same lie angle but with the 37.5" shaft then the end of your grip will be (x minus a little bit) inches vertically above the ground.  If you don't change the height of your hands at address then in order for the club to get back to the ground you will have to stand it slightly more upright (on its toe) to make up the missing distance. Alternatively you bend over a little more to drop your hands a fraction.  Or you have the club bent slightly more upright to make up the difference and keep the sole flat, but that only happens if you put it in a loft and lie machine and attack it with a bending bar (or put it in a vice and clump it with a mallet if your name is Ping!); it does not happen by changing shaft lengths.

As has been already stated there are no standard lies for manufacturers; the same manufacturers may even use different lie angles for different models.  As a general rule, American manufacturers tend to be more upright than Japanese manufacturers, because as a general rule Americans tend to be taller than Japanese and manufacturers build for the home market; Titleist's standard 6 iron lie is 62.5 degrees across the range, Mizuno's is 61 degree.  And the two shaft lengths you have may be the same if you are reading them from a spec sheet because some manufacturers quote finished club length (with the grip on) and others quote cut shaft length (before gripping) so the end cap of the grip makes up the difference; again, Titleist quote 37.5" for a 6 iron, Mizuno 37.25" (but I don't know if that is because of the cut shaft/finished length aspect or because the Japanese tend to be shorter).

Hitting off a lie board is a good way of testing how your lie angles are, the other is to read your divots.  If they are deeper at the toe and you tend to go right in the air (right hander) then your clubs are probably too flat and need tweaking more upright, heel deep divots and moving left in the air, clubs are too upright and need flattening off.

If I remember the rule of thumb correctly, each 1/2" inch of length change alters the effective lie by 1 degree, so for a 1/4" shorter your club would need to be altered to a lie of 61.5 degree to keep the measurement x approximately the same.  Conversely if your new club was 38" long, lie angle needs to drop to 60.5 degrees.

Hope that explains it for you, if not reply to the post and I'll see if I can clear it up when I find the e-mail notification, which isn't always daily.


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## slicer79 (Jan 21, 2013)

That's great. Thanks for such a detailed post, appreciate it


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 21, 2013)

You're welcome, glad to be of help.


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