# Lottery Funding & Olympics



## drdel (Aug 21, 2016)

Team GB has done a fantastic job of bringing home the medals and its well done to all out team members.

Depending which scoring system you use we're either second or third which for our population is brillaint.

My enthusiasm is somewhat tainted by the way the Lottery funding operates.  I believe a charity is there to help fund stuff that can't achieve it by other means. Unfortunately the Lottery only funds activities which are already a success so many sports don't get a look in. Other 'good' causes inevitably get nowt or less.

In my view its some of these other sports that should also be given cash. If the current system continues then the difference between the 'haves' and the 'have-nots' will get even bigger so some sports will simply die out.

This is exactly what a charity should not be causing - IMO the Lottery should not be able to sponsor/provide more than says 25% to 30% of the total budget.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2016)

The lottery funding has enabled talented people to show case their ability on the biggest stage on show - before the funding started we didn't compete - not because of a lack of talent but because people couldn't concentrate on a sport because they had to earn a living 

I'm not sure the charity angle ?

Many other countries have their athletes funded by the state in the amount of billions 

Which "good causes" are missing out or "getting owt" 

Which sports are missing out and will die out 

All the Olympic sports that GB compete in  get funding of some level ( bar the people that don't require it )


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 21, 2016)

I would have thought the last two Olympics would show that the system is working quite brilliantly. Why would we shoot ourselves in the foot and stop a system that is bringing success?


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## GB72 (Aug 21, 2016)

I think that the argument is that lottery funding between sports is results driven so if you do not hit your performance targets then your funding is cut. The argument could be that more funding is put into underperforming sports so as we challenge across the board.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2016)

GB72 said:



			I think that the argument is that lottery funding between sports is results driven so if you do not hit your performance targets then your funding is cut. The argument could be that more funding is put into underperforming sports so as we challenge across the board.
		
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They just had a graphic that GB got medals spread across more sports more than anyone else

I believe that the funding criteria has changed over the years to not just reward success but also support upcoming athletes with potential and to stop funding those that have been on the gravy train for ten years but have achieved nothing beyond a heat


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## Fyldewhite (Aug 21, 2016)

Heard an article on the radio yesterday where the case for equal funding of sports was made. The response was that we had that for 30 years along with 30 years of mediocrity and basically failure at this level. The money is great and those sports that can demonstrate the structure and potential (eg cycling, gymnastics) are getting the funding they need to get the brilliant results they are now getting. It's up to the sports governing bodies to get their act together. The funding bodies aren't going to start throwing money at dead ducks anytime soon when the current system had shown such a great return.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 21, 2016)

Fair point but maybe concentrating on certain core sports works better? Always hard to argue either way on that although we have never been so successful than with this system whereas we tried the scatter gun approach previously and that didn't work so well. It may be brutal but it brings results and at the top level it is about results.


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## bluewolf (Aug 21, 2016)

GB72 said:



			I think that the argument is that lottery funding between sports is results driven so if you do not hit your performance targets then your funding is cut. The argument could be that more funding is put into underperforming sports so as we challenge across the board.
		
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In other words "it's better to finish as runners up in all sports than to win in some sports?"
I can see both sides of the argument, but I would probably prefer to stick with the system we have.


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## sev112 (Aug 21, 2016)

They just said we won golds in more sports than ANY other nation

That is very impressive and suggests that there is diversity


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## chrisd (Aug 21, 2016)

A great achievement but it do wonder how many more we'd have won in London if the Russians hadn't been cheating?


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 21, 2016)

You can apply that through the years with cheats from a range of nations, sad to say.


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## BesCumber (Aug 22, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I would have thought the last two Olympics would show that the system is working quite brilliantly. Why would we shoot ourselves in the foot and stop a system that is bringing success?
		
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Because we're British dear boy.
We don't do well at games, here, don't you know.
Much better to be the plucky runner up.
So embarrassing all this winning things. 


:ears:


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## Neilds (Aug 22, 2016)

chrisd said:



			A great achievement but it do wonder how many more we'd have won in London if the Russians hadn't been cheating?
		
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People seem to forget that Britain hasn't been totally clean when it comes to drug takers- Linford Christie, Dwain Chambers to name a few &#128545;


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## User62651 (Aug 22, 2016)

Neilds said:



			People seem to forget that Britain hasn't been totally clean when it comes to drug takers- Linford Christie, Dwain Chambers to name a few &#63009;
		
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Yep they're all 'juiced' in one way or another, its just trying to stay on the right side of what's legal and what's not. Alain Baxter lost his Olympic bronze ski slalom medal in 2002 cos he took a sniff from a Vicks inhaler for a cold yet Mo Farah freely admits he takes a really strong espresso before each race, both the caffeine and the trace of ephydrine in the US verison of the Vicks inhaler are stimulants, however one's ok, t'other was not. It's a minefield. Christie raced freely until late on when he got done, general consensus the way his times and physique changed so much between his early twenties and late twenties was that it wasn't from natural gains allegedly. Flo-jo never got done but come on, she was more 'male' than Semenya! Ohorugo had question marks for a while, even Paula Radcliffe was in the mire recently with allegations from that Times report. What happend with Tyson Fury, heard he's failed some drug test also recently.
I hope young Van Niekirk is clean, that was the standout moment of the whole Olympics for me.
Trying to administrate, police, legalise and manage the whole 'drugs in sport' and gender testing must be an absolute nightmare with the goalposts shifting all the time.


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Aug 22, 2016)

Just playing Devil's advocate here - I haven't thought it through ...

But 

The medal table over the years has been influenced by some countries condoning enhancement of their athletes performance using drugs

We have definitely enhanced our performance to way, way more than a country our size should achieve by throwing ridiculous amounts of money at it. 

We funded our team to the tune of Â£275,000,000 of Lottery money. That's not money any of these guys and gals earned by being professional it's just money that was donated by a national 'charity'

In 2006 it was under Â£60M according to the BBC.

Is it the Olympic dream to buy success like this? What about the poorer nations who can't afford to compete in this way?  Is that any more moral than using drugs to get an edge?

Also we've had loads of discussions on other topics about what a terrible state our country is in and is going to be in over the next few years. Is there an argument to say that some of this money would be better off going to those people who are getting support from food banks, or other absolute, life saving necessities?

This morning I'm incredibly proud of all our medal winning athletes, but I've got an undefined uncomfortable lump somewhere in the back of my craw.


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## User62651 (Aug 22, 2016)

Oohmeoldbacksknackered said:



			Just playing Devil's advocate here - I haven't thought it through ...

But 

The medal table over the years has been influenced by some countries condoning enhancement of their athletes performance using drugs

We have definitely enhanced our performance to way, way more than a country our size should achieve by throwing ridiculous amounts of money at it. 

We funded our team to the tune of Â£275,000,000 of Lottery money. That's not money any of these guys and gals earned by being professional it's just money that was donated by a national 'charity'

In 2006 it was under Â£60M according to the BBC.

Is it the Olympic dream to buy success like this? What about the poorer nations who can't afford to compete in this way?  Is that any more moral than using drugs to get an edge?

Also we've had loads of discussions on other topics about what a terrible state our country is in and is going to be in over the next few years. Is there an argument to say that some of this money would be better off going to those people who are getting support from food banks, or other absolute, life saving necessities?

This morning I'm incredibly proud of all our medal winning athletes, but I've got an undefined uncomfortable lump somewhere in the back of my craw.



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That's not playing devils advocate, I'd say its a pretty balanced view, a view which many people would agree with.


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## Slab (Aug 22, 2016)

Oohmeoldbacksknackered said:



			Just playing Devil's advocate here - I haven't thought it through ...

But .............
		
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Yeah the trouble is it never works out that way, i.e money not spent on sport wouldn't automatically be spent on xyz (worthy cause)

When they finished the Scottish parliament building and also seeing news of yet another house fire claiming kids lives I remember working it out on the train to work that the same money spent on an unnecessary building could have supplied every house in Scotland with multiple smoke & gas detectors, full motion sensor burglar alarm throughout the home and garden, fire blankets, fire extinguishers, escape tools (i.e ladders, window breakers etc) security/safety lighting... the list goes on... Every single house in Scotland fully kitted out for safety & security with the cash simply being diverted from one government building project

Never going to happen though


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## bluewolf (Aug 22, 2016)

maxfli65 said:



			That's not playing devils advocate, I'd say its a pretty balanced view, a view which many people would agree with.
		
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No it's not. It's overly simplistic twaddle. It conveniently ignores all the positive effects of a successful sporting event. Including the "feel good factor" that results in an increase in spending by the Public, thereby increasing tax revenues.


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

I would personally  rather that the NHS was funded properly, Mental health care was funded properly, schools were brought up to date, bigger prisons were built and that more lottery money went to finding a cure for cancer which affects us all in one way or another. 

The UK games 4 years ago just took money from areas it ought to have been spent on to fund the games and then the infrastructure ended up in private hands at a fraction of the cost that the Tax payer paid. The olympic village was sold off for peanuts and is owned by a Kuwait family who use the homes as private rents and the Super stadium has been leased to West ham United on a peppercorn rent compared to how much it cost.

We must not forget (although the media has) that Russia (rightly or wrongly) only having less than half a team out there has helped other nations medals haul too including our own.

I hope that Mo can get to answer his front door in the USA next time the drugs testers come a knocking, instead of pretending he slept through it all but being kicked off its hinges here in the UK before the London games. 

Sport should fund its self via private sponsors instead of taking money that could be better spent on more important things.
At the end of the day the athletes take the funding (Like our tennis players) and then take all the money and fame that comes with success and very few actually give back to the UK.
It seems to me that we in the UK will throw money at anything except the things that need it the most. Time will tell


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			I would personally  rather that the NHS was funded properly, Mental health care was funded properly, schools were brought up to date, bigger prisons were built and that more lottery money went to finding a cure for cancer which affects us all in one way or another. 

The UK games 4 years ago just took money from areas it ought to have been spent on to fund the games and then the infrastructure ended up in private hands at a fraction of the cost that the Tax payer paid. The olympic village was sold off for peanuts and is owned by a Kuwait family who use the homes as private rents and the Super stadium has been leased to West ham United on a peppercorn rent compared to how much it cost.

We must not forget (although the media has) that Russia (rightly or wrongly) only having less than half a team out there has helped other nations medals haul too including our own.

I hope that Mo can get to answer his front door in the USA next time the drugs testers come a knocking, instead of pretending he slept through it all but being kicked off its hinges here in the UK before the London games. 

Sport should fund its self via private sponsors instead of taking money that could be better spent on more important things.
At the end of the day the athletes take the funding (Like our tennis players) and then take all the money and fame that comes with success and very few actually give back to the UK.
It seems to me that we in the UK will throw money at anything except the things that need it the most. Time will tell
		
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All typed whilst living abroad, can't help but see some irony in your stance, yes I except you will have paid your whack while living here, but saying how the present Government should be spent while no longer contributing fully...........


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## User62651 (Aug 22, 2016)

bluewolf said:



			No it's not. It's overly simplistic twaddle. It conveniently ignores all the positive effects of a successful sporting event. Including the "feel good factor" that results in an increase in spending by the Public, thereby increasing tax revenues.
		
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How someone feels about something isn't twaddle, it's how they feel! You're untangible 'Feel good factor' is great if your well off middle class and life is rosy, doesn't mean sod all for huge swathes of people in poverty or in poor health with more pressing concerns or aren't into sport for whom Olympics mean very little  or nothing at all.....different people different perspectives.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2016)

Lottery money is not govt money. If lottery money went to the NHS then govt would reduce the money given to it. That is reality. Govt has plenty of money, it how they choose to spend it that needs to be analysed.


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## User62651 (Aug 22, 2016)

So what's the next step ? - double the obscure sports spend to over Â£700 million to get ahead of team USA in Tokyo 2020 and be top of the medal table at last, wow what a feel good factor that would create! It'd be so worth it........NOT.


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Aug 22, 2016)

bluewolf said:



			No it's not. It's overly simplistic twaddle. It conveniently ignores all the positive effects of a successful sporting event. Including the "feel good factor" that results in an increase in spending by the Public, thereby increasing tax revenues.
		
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That's 'feel good' in this country.

But is it seen that way by poorer nations? How would that sort of financial backing affect all the African nations when it comes to training their runners? Or maybe it could fund their equestrian team. How did Ethiopia do in the dancing horses events?

Also look at how good the after effects have been in Greece. It's difficult to argue your case if you look at their economy.

You say I'm over simplistic.

Absolutely, and proud of it.

I think the less we over complicate our initial stance, the more chance we have of getting a reasonable solution. If we start from a muddled mess, it's only going to get worse. I will never have the final answer, but I'm good at asking stupid questions. Because every now and then, one of them helps someone more intelligent than me make a sensible point. 

I'm afraid that I'm not convinced yours is it, this time.


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## bluewolf (Aug 22, 2016)

Oohmeoldbacksknackered said:



			That's 'feel good' in this country.

But is it seen that way by poorer nations? How would that sort of financial backing affect all the African nations when it comes to training their runners? Or maybe it could fund their equestrian team. How did Ethiopia do in the dancing horses events?

Also look at how good the after effects have been in Greece. It's difficult to argue your case if you look at their economy.

You say I'm over simplistic.

Absolutely, and proud of it.

I think the less we over complicate our initial stance, the more chance we have of getting a reasonable solution. If we start from a muddled mess, it's only going to get worse. I will never have the final answer, but I'm good at asking stupid questions. Because every now and then, one of them helps someone more intelligent than me make a sensible point. 

I'm afraid that I'm not convinced yours is it, this time.
		
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Ok, so let's simplify it some more. How about we all take all the time and money that we spend on golf and devote them to the helpless in our own community? How much better would the world be if we did that? Or, do you prefer to let other people make these decisions, then criticise them?


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Aug 22, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Lottery money is not govt money. If lottery money went to the NHS then govt would reduce the money given to it. That is reality. Govt has plenty of money, it how they choose to spend it that needs to be analysed.
		
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Absolutely. I totally agree.

But Lottery money could go to more local charities that fund local stuff (no I have no idea what at this point). It could go to private schools for underprivileged / disabled kids.

It could maybe fund state school kids to independent schools.

Again, mad ramblings, but I think it's worth mentioning  at a higher level before the next huge lump is given out to some reasonably well off people - I mean, how poor are our rowers and other boaty people? How much funding do they 'need' or is it just making their lives a tad more comfortable? (just one example picked at random - I have nothing against big, butch, muscular, fit men - apart from totally reasonable jealousy, of course)

Can they raise the sponsorship themselves and not rely on handouts?

Worth a discussion?


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2016)

maxfli65 said:



			So what's the next step ? - double the obscure sports spend to over Â£700 million to get ahead of team USA in Tokyo 2020 and be top of the medal table at last, wow what a feel good factor that would create! It'd be so worth it........NOT.
		
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The amount spent is probably restricted by lottery ticket sales. They have plateaued, perhaps reduced, so I doubt more will be piled in on a major scale. There is also a criteria to meet in that you must be challenging for a medal, likely to win a medal in future years. That alone will restrict which sports receive money. It is quite a professional set up.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2016)

Oohmeoldbacksknackered said:



			Absolutely. I totally agree.

But Lottery money could go to more local charities that fund local stuff (no I have no idea what at this point). It could go to private schools for underprivileged / disabled kids.

It could maybe fund state school kids to independent schools.

Again, mad ramblings, but I think it's worth mentioning  at a higher level before the next huge lump is given out to some reasonably well off people - I mean, how poor are our rowers and other boaty people? How much funding do they 'need' or is it just making their lives a tad more comfortable? (just one example picked at random - I have nothing against big, butch, muscular, fit men - apart from totally reasonable jealousy, of course)

Can they raise the sponsorship themselves and not rely on handouts?

Worth a discussion?
		
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I hope none of my money ever sends people to independent schools. They can sink or swim on their own. 

Lottery money goes to lots of good causes, not just elite athletes. It builds many facilities for sports clubs, lots to charitable causes. Olympic money is just part of it.

Sponsorship doesn't cover enough, hence why we didn't win many medals in the past. I could name gold medal winners from GB when growing up as they were so rare. Even silver medallists were heroes, not any more.


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Aug 22, 2016)

bluewolf said:



			Ok, so let's simplify it some more. How about we all take all the time and money that we spend on golf and devote them to the helpless in our own community? How much better would the world be if we did that? Or, do you prefer to let other people make these decisions, then criticise them?
		
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I donate as much money as I can afford without affecting my reasonably comfortable lifestyle - but I give it to cancer, not homelessness (my choice.

I do far too little to help my fellow man, but then I am a selfish bugger at heart. But I do do my best to help me, mine, my friends and theirs. And if I can help someone at little or no inconvenience to myself I'll give it a go.

I'm not saying don't spend any money on it, I'm asking if there should be more balance.

If I spent Â£5k a year on holidays and nothing on donations I'd feel guilty. If I gave all my money to charity and couldn't afford a holiday for my family I'd feel a whole lot worse. 

I normally settle on a Â£1000-Â£1500 holiday and a small standing order to appease my guilt.


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Aug 22, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I hope none of my money ever sends people to independent schools. They can sink or swim on their own. 

Lottery money goes to lots of good causes, not just elite athletes. It builds many facilities for sports clubs, lots to charitable causes. Olympic money is just part of it.

Sponsorship doesn't cover enough, hence why we didn't win many medals in the past. I could name gold medal winners from GB when growing up as they were so rare. Even silver medallists were heroes, not any more.
		
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Again, I absolutely agree.

But Â£275,000,000?

Up from Â£60M ten years ago?

Just seems unbalanced...


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## pendodave (Aug 22, 2016)

Our olympic funding model :

1. Take cash from poor people via dubious state sponsored gambling scheme.
2. Give it to rich people doing niche sports
3. Sit back and allow middle class people to congratulate themselves on feeling good. 

It works. But, come on.....


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2016)

pendodave said:



			Our olympic funding model :

1. Take cash from poor people via dubious state sponsored gambling scheme.
2. Give it to rich people doing niche sports
3. Sit back and allow middle class people to congratulate themselves on feeling good. 

It works. But, come on.....
		
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Do you do comedy clubs? Ha ha. Not being sarky, it sounds like a classic opening to a set about the Olympics


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## pendodave (Aug 22, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do you do comedy clubs? Ha ha. Not being sarky, it sounds like a classic opening to a set about the Olympics 

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No offence taken. 

Tbh, I find this type of discussion a bit dispiriting. Most people are so black and white. Binary seems to be the default position. In reality, everything is more complicated than at first sight, and normally I work on the basis that it's those at the bottom who are being shafted, whatever the headlines say.

Plus I know before I've even opened the browser that the normal suspects will be toeing the establishment line without ever looking outside their own gilded cages.


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## fundy (Aug 22, 2016)

http://qz.com/761234/us-olympic-cha...ndorsements-and-parades-and-a-hefty-tax-bill/

maybe we should take the american approach


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 22, 2016)

pendodave said:



			No offence taken. 

Tbh, I find this type of discussion a bit dispiriting. Most people are so black and white. Binary seems to be the default position. In reality, everything is more complicated than at first sight, and normally I work on the basis that it's those at the bottom who are being shafted, whatever the headlines say.

Plus I know before I've even opened the browser that the normal suspects will be toeing the establishment line without ever looking outside their own gilded cages.
		
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Are you feeling dizzy sat so high up in your ivory tower?

Maybe we can target the tax dodgers or the criminals and give that to sport or better still cut our overseas funding and look after our own, 

It's not a political issue, it's British sportsmen and women receiving British money with a measureable outcome, some of the working class kids from poor backgrounds who have a bit of talent can now dream and reach the Olympics, I've never heard so many athletes single out the lottery funding thanking them for allowing to train without worry.


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			All typed whilst living abroad, can't help but see some irony in your stance, yes I except you will have paid your whack while living here, but saying how the present Government should be spent while no longer contributing fully...........
		
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You cheeky git,  I pay tax to the UK my family lives in the UK and I have as much right to say what I think and have my opinion about how lottery money is spent in the country I was born in as anyone of the people that choose to live there.

I play the lottery from time to time and I vote in the UK too if I want to.
I have more than contributed to the UK and I qualify for a full pension there too.
This is my opinion and it is as valid as yours or anyone elses, you dont have to agree but I think that the lottery money could be better spent.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			You cheeky git,  I pay tax to the UK my family lives in the UK and I have as much right to say what I think and have my opinion about how lottery money is spent in the country I was born in as anyone of the people that choose to live there.

I play the lottery from time to time and I vote in the UK too if I want to.
I have more than contributed to the UK and I qualify for a full pension there too.
This is my opinion and it is as valid as yours or anyone elses, you dont have to agree but I think that the lottery money could be better spent.
		
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But it's ok for you to accuse the athletes of not paying back, I acknowledge you've done your bit, but it's wrong to accuse others of not doing theres.


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## bluewolf (Aug 22, 2016)

pendodave said:



			No offence taken. 

Tbh, I find this type of discussion a bit dispiriting. Most people are so black and white. Binary seems to be the default position. In reality, everything is more complicated than at first sight, and normally I work on the basis that it's those at the bottom who are being shafted, whatever the headlines say.

Plus I know before I've even opened the browser that the normal suspects will be toeing the establishment line without ever looking outside their own gilded cages.
		
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:rofl:

I love the way you've complained about people viewing things in too binary a fashion, and then viewed the debate in such a shallow monochromatic manner that you've become the perfect example for your own complaint... Priceless irony....


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## CheltenhamHacker (Aug 22, 2016)

Oohmeoldbacksknackered said:



			J
The medal table over the years has been influenced by some countries condoning enhancement of their athletes performance using drugs
		
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Are you including or excluding GB from this?


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 22, 2016)

I think it depends on what the 275 mill goes on.

If 25 mill goes direct to funding the 1-10% of GB participants at the top, but 90% plus goes on facilities that not only the participants can use, but also the local community, then great.

When I have travelled in Scotland, I see lots of investment in little towns and villages with what looks like newish sports facilities, which is good.

However, if most of it is just doled out to help the participants and just spent on their specialist training facilities and programmes, then not used as well.

It pains me when Liverpool city council hike up the price to use their pitches for footy teams, when the premiership (and in turn the FA)  is so awash with money.


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			But it's ok for you to accuse the athletes of not paying back, I acknowledge you've done your bit, but it's wrong to accuse others of not doing theres.
		
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With all due respect its not up to you or anyone else to acknowledge how I choose to live my life or where I choose to go. 
All I said that "In my opinion" that the Lottery money for good causes could be spent in better areas and that I believe that many of the Athletes just take out and when they find fame and fortune put nothing back in (except getting on the gravy train as an overpaid commentator at the license payers expense).

That goes on in all walks of sport, Football, and Tennis included but it doesnt make it right.
I have not been funded by the lottery commission so I do not have to justify taking money from good causes to further my bigoted ambitions.

We got 2 more medals than when we were the host nation this time around simply due to the fact that the Russians were not competing at a full level and I would love to see for example  Mo  fund some grass roots sport in this country that educated and trained him instead of sending money abroad to Somalia for their sport.

You do not have to agree but that is how I feel about things.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 22, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			It pains me when Liverpool city council hike up the price to use their pitches for footy teams, when the premiership (and in turn the FA)  is so awash with money.
		
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I have seen an awful lot of sports facilities with plaques on stating funded by the National Lottery, FA, ECB. Never by the PL. The PL is most certainly awash with money and they should be pressured into helping in these instances. They may well have a grass roots fund but if they do they hide it very well.

I was in Ashington Rugby / Cricket club at the weekend. Their clubhouse has been extended and kitted out. Really good job. It was paid for by the lottery, ECB and various other bodies. The clubhouse is used by the cricket team, rugby team, an archery club, scouts and possibly others but I lost track. Anyway, it is a proper community facility and it was money well spent in my eyes. Plenty of good examples around the country.


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## Pathetic Shark (Aug 22, 2016)

If it comes down to a choice between spending lottery funding on our athletes or sending a ton of money to other countries for "humanitarian reasons", I am behind the athletes all the way.  The good will and euphoric feeling that sports success has brought to this nation alongside promoting the sports for all to take part in, has been evident throughout the country.   And yet we carry on throwing money at crooked dictators and tin-pot republics around the world.  Charity begins at home and this kind of lottery funding can long continue in my book.


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 22, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I have seen an awful lot of sports facilities with plaques on stating funded by the National Lottery, FA, ECB. Never by the PL. The PL is most certainly awash with money and they should be pressured into helping in these instances. They may well have a grass roots fund but if they do they hide it very well.

I was in Ashington Rugby / Cricket club at the weekend. Their clubhouse has been extended and kitted out. Really good job. It was paid for by the lottery, ECB and various other bodies. The clubhouse is used by the cricket team, rugby team, an archery club, scouts and possibly others but I lost track. Anyway, it is a proper community facility and it was money well spent in my eyes. Plenty of good examples around the country.
		
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Good to hear that some if it is being done, whether still enough, I don't know.


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## bluewolf (Aug 22, 2016)

Whilst this discussion carries on, I'm going to take the dogs up to have a look around the plot of land that's been donated to our local village sports club. Thankfully, due to lottery funding, we'll be able to build a new clubhouse, with a function room, gym, several football and rugby pitches. A real sporting community hub.


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## Hacker Khan (Aug 22, 2016)

As others have said, it is never such a simple choice of saying if the money didn't help fund our elite athletes it would go into cancer research or more food banks, government funding just does not work like that.  

To me the question could be do we continue following our model or possible go back to winning fewer medals but have better public provision of sporting facilities, a bit like France.  I play badminton and I remember when we once looked at trying to change venues, but it was very difficult to find courts available at the time we wanted. So if we have a situation where people do get enthused to play badminton after watching the GB men's doubles get a bronze, but there is nowhere withing a 30 mile radius available, then to me the finding could potentially be better used.  But if in general the facilities are there is people got off their fat arses and used them, then then keep calm and carry on.

One thing that does amuse me though is that you compare the success we have had in many Olympic sports compared to the lack of national success we have had in football and it becomes clear that money is just one factor.  As you need to use it well, and that is where I think team GB should be lauded.  We set a hard ambitious target and we have mostly achieved what we set out to do, we are now an Olympic superpower. Which for those of us who grew up in the 70s and 80s would have been unthinkable.


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## GB72 (Aug 22, 2016)

This is not having a dig or anything else as I really do not know the answer to this question but is lottery funding means tested. What I mean is that many of the recent Olympic medallists will come back with a far greater media image and will receive all sorts of sponsorship and other such offers which will help fill the coffers. At that stage, is their lottery funding cut to take into account the increased earning potential and moved on to the next up and coming person or does the funding continue irrespective of personal resources.


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## Hacker Khan (Aug 22, 2016)

GB72 said:



			This is not having a dig or anything else as I really do not know the answer to this question but is lottery funding means tested. What I mean is that many of the recent Olympic medallists will come back with a far greater media image and will receive all sorts of sponsorship and other such offers which will help fill the coffers. At that stage, is their lottery funding cut to take into account the increased earning potential and moved on to the next up and coming person or does the funding continue irrespective of personal resources.
		
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http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...chief-says-don-t-forget-punters-paid-all.html

"Certainly, the sums provided by the lottery are Olympian in scale: it has invested Â£80million a year in supporting 1,300 elite athletes competing in the Olympics in Rio and the Paralympics which begin there on September 7.  To date, more than 4,500 elite athletes have benefited from lottery funding.

'It is means-tested, so those athletes like Jessica Ennis-Hill and Mo Farah who have a lot of commercial sponsorship are not paid directly by the lottery like the others, but they still benefit from training facilities, nutritionists, coaches and so on. "


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

GB72 said:



			but is lottery funding means tested. What I mean is that many of the recent Olympic medallists will come back with a far greater media image and will receive all sorts of sponsorship and other such offers which will help fill the coffers. At that stage, is their lottery funding cut to take into account the increased earning potential and moved on to the next up and coming person or does the funding continue irrespective of personal resources.
		
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Thats a good question, they have had another 355 million from the lottery since September 2013 and  I think that the big names still take funding even though they have sponsors but I do not know the figures. In my opinion not enough lottery money ever gets to grass roots sport in the UK.
It seems to be a smokescreen for the minority of athletes and the governing body on the gravy train, maybe somebody knows the answer.


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Aug 22, 2016)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Are you including or excluding GB from this?
		
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At this stage ignoring it...&#128521;

I'm just wondering where money is on the list of influencing factors.


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Aug 22, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think it depends on what the 275 mill goes on.

If 25 mill goes direct to funding the 1-10% of GB participants at the top, but 90% plus goes on facilities that not only the participants can use, but also the local community, then great.

When I have travelled in Scotland, I see lots of investment in little towns and villages with what looks like newish sports facilities, which is good.

However, if most of it is just doled out to help the participants and just spent on their specialist training facilities and programmes, then not used as well.

It pains me when Liverpool city council hike up the price to use their pitches for footy teams, when the premiership (and in turn the FA)  is so awash with money.
		
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Definitely a good point.

Is there a breakdown anywhere?


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Aug 22, 2016)

bluewolf said:



			Whilst this discussion carries on, I'm going to take the dogs up to have a look around the plot of land that's been donated to our local village sports club. Thankfully, due to lottery funding, we'll be able to build a new clubhouse, with a function room, gym, several football and rugby pitches. A real sporting community hub.
		
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You just make it all about me,me, me.&#128523;

Only joking, that's exactly where the money should be going. 
But more importantly...
Are they going to subsidise the beer. &#129296;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			With all due respect its not up to you or anyone else to acknowledge how I choose to live my life or where I choose to go. 
All I said that "In my opinion" that the Lottery money for good causes could be spent in better areas and that I believe that many of the Athletes just take out and when they find fame and fortune put nothing back in (except getting on the gravy train as an overpaid commentator at the license payers expense).

That goes on in all walks of sport, Football, and Tennis included but it doesnt make it right.
I have not been funded by the lottery commission so I do not have to justify taking money from good causes to further my bigoted ambitions.

We got 2 more medals than when we were the host nation this time around simply due to the fact that the Russians were not competing at a full level and I would love to see for example  Mo  fund some grass roots sport in this country that educated and trained him instead of sending money abroad to Somalia for their sport.

You do not have to agree but that is how I feel about things.
		
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Have a read of your initial post and you'll see not once did you say "in my opinion" and as for the dig at Tennis players not giving back you can only mean Andy Murray, again before you give us your entitled opinion you might google Andy Murray Charity Work and you will see he has won awards for his Charity work has local initiatives and annual events for kids to play Tennis in Scotland, the guy has even been recognised by the UN.
As for him appearing in the Olympics, all he received is his team kit, he has not received one penny in funding.


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## bluewolf (Aug 22, 2016)

Oohmeoldbacksknackered said:



			You just make it all about me,me, me.&#62987;

Only joking, that's exactly where the money should be going. 
But more importantly...
Are they going to subsidise the beer. &#34367;
		
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I hope it's going to be subsidised as I'll be one of the volunteers serving it at club functions :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			Thats a good question, they have had another 355 million from the lottery since September 2013 and  I think that the big names still take funding even though they have sponsors but I do not know the figures. In my opinion not enough lottery money ever gets to grass roots sport in the UK.
It seems to be a smokescreen for the minority of athletes and the governing body on the gravy train, maybe somebody knows the answer.
		
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Just to tackle a few of the statements that you have made

1. Sports people not giving anything back - most of the Olympians that are funded by National Lottery give their time and services to provide workshops to schools or clubs relevant to their sport - a perfect example is every summer the GB hockey teams go around the country spending a day at clubs to coach and offer advice to mainly school kids - all without appearance fees etc - the swimmers and cyclists also do the same. 

2. It's all means tested so any athlete that is able to financially back themselves via sponsership or appearance fees aka Farah and Ennis don't get funding from the lottery 

3. The gravy train was stopped a good number of years ago - the money is not wasted on sportsmen and women who just do the bare minimum - it's all very careful worked out

4. Lottery money to grass roots - go to any town around the nation and you will find a sports club or facility that has been built using lottery funding 

As for some of the other comments being made 

Taking money from the poor to give to the rich ?  What an nonsense statement 

No money is "taken" from anyone 

If people aren't happy with lottery money helping out talented people amongst thousands of other projects then don't buy the lottery 

Millions upon millions gets given to charity every single year - the lottery funds both sport and non sport projects all over the country


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Have a read of your initial post and you'll see not once did you say "in my opinion" and as for the dig at Tennis players not giving back you can only mean Andy Murray, again before you give us your entitled opinion you might google Andy Murray Charity Work and you will see he has won awards for his Charity work has local initiatives and annual events for kids to play Tennis in Scotland, the guy has even been recognised by the UN.

As for him appearing in the Olympics, all he received is his team kit, he has not received one penny in funding.
		
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It is obviously my opinion because I typed it and it is not for you or anyone else to turn it into a personal thing. You can have your opinion on the thread and I can have mine but where I choose to live has no relevance on anything.

When I said Tennis I meant in general and not Olympics, (in my opinion Pro tennis players should not even be in the Olympics in the first place. 

Many professional  British Tennis players are funded but are not putting the Effort in they just pose around. Murray and his brother are exceptions to the rule and I like them and I personally have no beef with them so stop assuming things that are not valid.


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just to tackle a few of the statements that you have made

1. Sports people not giving anything back - most of the Olympians that are funded by National Lottery give their time and services to provide workshops to schools or clubs relevant to their sport - a perfect example is every summer the GB hockey teams go around the country spending a day at clubs to coach and offer advice to mainly school kids - all without appearance fees etc - the swimmers and cyclists also do the same. 

2. It's all means tested so any athlete that is able to financially back themselves via sponsership or appearance fees aka Farah and Ennis don't get funding from the lottery 

3. The gravy train was stopped a good number of years ago - the money is not wasted on sportsmen and women who just do the bare minimum - it's all very careful worked out

4. Lottery money to grass roots - go to any town around the nation and you will find a sports club or facility that has been built using lottery funding 

As for some of the other comments being made 

Taking money from the poor to give to the rich ?  What an nonsense statement 

No money is "taken" from anyone 

If people aren't happy with lottery money helping out talented people amongst thousands of other projects then don't buy the lottery 

Millions upon millions gets given to charity every single year - the lottery funds both sport and non sport projects all over the country
		
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1 many athletes and sportsmen do nothing to help in communities and just take out and nobody said all of them.

2. I will take your word for it that the very so called top britisg athletes do no longer get funding but the funding massively helped to get them where they are today.

3 the Gravy train is the BBC and ITV and SKY etc where in my opinion they are overpaid for comments that most of us can see for ourselves.

4. Not anywhere near enough lottery and taxpayers money goes to grass roots sport and in many areas there are rubbish facilities for the public and they are expensive to use.
The London Olympics cost the taxpayer a fortune and most of the country got nothing out of it and the facilities (Olympic village and Olympic stadium) have been spirited away.
That is how I see it anyway.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			1 many athletes and sportsmen do nothing to help in communities and just take out and nobody said all of them.
		
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Like who exactly ? It's all part of the governing bodies guidelines to give back to the communities - so if you are going to make suggestions and accusations can you name the people that give nothing back 




			2. I will take your word for it that the very so called top britisg athletes do no longer get funding but the funding massively helped to get them where they are today.
		
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Again it's all part of the means tested guidelines that is set in place to ensure the money goes to the right place. A number of them have never had any funding but use coaches that are part of the elite programme which is funded 




			3 the Gravy train is the BBC and ITV and SKY etc where in my opinion they are overpaid for comments that most of us can see for ourselves.
		
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Sorry but what does that have to do with lottery funding - the people who provide the analysis are all past top Olympians who have won a great deal in their past and all mainly without any funding 




			4. Not anywhere near enough lottery and taxpayers money goes to grass roots sport and in many areas there are rubbish facilities for the public and they are expensive to use.
The London Olympics cost the taxpayer a fortune and most of the country got nothing out of it and the facilities (Olympic village and Olympic stadium) have been spirited away.
That is how I see it anyway.
		
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Taxpayers money is a different subject totally and not relevant to the discussion 

The lottery over the past 10 years has given over Â£20 billion to good causes 

Â£35 mil a week is given out 

40% to health education , charity etc 

20% to sport

20% to heritage 

20% to arts 

https://www.national-lottery.co.uk/life-changing/where-the-money-goes


How you see it maybe bit wrong


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## Karl102 (Aug 22, 2016)

I've not read all the thread, but I know a fair deal about this having been close to UK Sport and the Youth Sports Trust for a while. Best explained here...
Lots of arguments for and against, but here's the link.... Personally I have seen young people aged 11-18 from all walks of life benefit from it. One example is a male runner (from to toxtexth in Liverpool) who would not have been able to finish school, get a job and still train to compete at a national level. He's a cracking lad who aims to be in the next Olympics if everything works out....

http://www.uksport.gov.uk/our-work/investing-in-sport/how-uk-sport-funding-works


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Like who exactly ? It's all part of the governing bodies guidelines to give back to the communities - so if you are going to make suggestions and accusations can you name the people that give nothing back




Again it's all part of the means tested guidelines that is set in place to ensure the money goes to the right place. A number of them have never had any funding but use coaches that are part of the elite programme which is funded 



Sorry but what does that have to do with lottery funding - the people who provide the analysis are all past top Olympians who have won a great deal in their past and all mainly without any funding 


Taxpayers money is a different subject totally and not relevant to the discussion 

The lottery over the past 10 years has given over Â£20 billion to good causes 

Â£35 mil a week is given out 

40% to health education , charity etc 

20% to sport

20% to heritage 

20% to arts 

https://www.national-lottery.co.uk/life-changing/where-the-money-goes


How you see it maybe bit wrong
		
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Too many athletes to name that put nothing back and may are pro Tennis players they get around 26 million a year from the lottery and live a comfortable lifestyle with little to no success, The Murrays are and exception and I do not include them.

The lottery money along with Taxpayers money went towards the Building of Olympic Village and Olympic stadium  and the former has now been sold of to a Kuwait firm that is using the village as Private rented accommodation and West ham has the Olympic stadium on a peppercorn rent. The Taxpayer is still almost 500 million out of pocket for the Olympic village alone.


I do not see that as a good use of our countrys money when so many are going without and our old and many of our infirm are suffering.
We will just have to agree to disagree as how you see it is a bit wrong.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			It is obviously my opinion because I typed it and it is not for you or anyone else to turn it into a personal thing. You can have your opinion on the thread and I can have mine but where I choose to live has no relevance on anything.

When I said Tennis I meant in general and not Olympics, (in my opinion Pro tennis players should not even be in the Olympics in the first place. 

Many professional  British Tennis players are funded but are not putting the Effort in they just pose around. Murray and his brother are exceptions to the rule and I like them and I personally have no beef with them so stop assuming things that are not valid.
		
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Not personal at all and agree everyone is entitled to an opinion, unfortunately you made statements which are not backed up, we're discussing the Olympics and now were meant to realise you are talking in general, sometimes it's easier to state it's an opinion or the discussion is being widened, that way it avoids people being confused about what you mean, for all we know you could intimate knowledge of the subject and educating us.
The relevance in were you live is the fact that these athletes that are funded by the UK are spending their money in the UK environment, you live abroad and unless visiting are not currently contributing to the UK economy, but you accuse them of giving nothing back without any proof, a very generalist statement which in my opinion is unfair.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			Too many athletes to name that put nothing back and may are pro Tennis players they get around 26 million a year from the lottery and live a comfortable lifestyle with little to no success, The Murrays are and exception and I do not include them.
		
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You do know a lot of lottery funding actually goes to tennis clubs to keep them alive and also to fund lessons for kids - also a lot of the top players fund themselves but use facilities paid for by LTA and Lottery Funds - unless you want to name which players you are talking about ? 




			The lottery money along with Taxpayers money went towards the Building of Olympic Village and Olympic stadium  and the former has now been sold of to a Kuwait firm that is using the village as Private rented accommodation and West ham has the Olympic stadium on a peppercorn rent.
I do not see that as a good use of our countries money when so many are going without and our old and many of our infirm are suffering.
We will just have to agree to disagree as how you see it is a bit wrong.
		
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So the Olympics village was built by using government money to help host the Games 4 years ago and then they sold it off to get money back ? Was the money not off good use then to help host the Olympics or would you prefer the thousands of participants brought a tent along with them ? 

You are going back 4 years and talking about money that was used by the government to help host the games 

This thread is about lottery funding to athletes to help them succeed. 

You suggested enough wasn't going to good causes so I'm guessing you are ignoring the link and the amount of billions that has been given to good causes.


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## Hacker Khan (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			1 many athletes and sportsmen do nothing to help in communities and just take out and nobody said all of them.

2. I will take your word for it that the very so called top britisg athletes do no longer get funding but the funding massively helped to get them where they are today.

3 *the Gravy train is the BBC and ITV and SKY etc where in my opinion they are overpaid for comments that most of us can see for ourselves.*

4. Not anywhere near enough lottery and taxpayers money goes to grass roots sport and in many areas there are rubbish facilities for the public and they are expensive to use.
*The London Olympics cost the taxpayer a fortune and most of the country got nothing out of it* and the facilities (Olympic village and Olympic stadium) have been spirited away.
That is how I see it anyway.
		
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What on earth are you talking about with regards to BBC/Sky??

And as for most of the country getting nothing out of London then most events sell outs as you had the opportunity to relatively easily attend the greatest sporting event on earth, there was a general feeling of happiness in the country whilst it was on and we got to prove to the world what a tolerant, inclusive, sports mad and generally cool country we are.  Well were until Brexit came along, but that's another thread.  Also large areas of the east of London have been regenerated.  It probably was the greatest event Britain as a nation has hosted in my life time and probably ever will.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			I do not see that as a good use of our countrys money when so many are going without and our old and many of our infirm are suffering.
We will just have to agree to disagree as how you see it is a bit wrong.
		
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So everyones entitled to opinion, apart from them you decide are a bit wrong.
:rofl:


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Not personal at all and agree everyone is entitled to an opinion, unfortunately you made statements which are not backed up, we're discussing the Olympics and now were meant to realise you are talking in general, sometimes it's easier to state it's an opinion or the discussion is being widened, that way it avoids people being confused about what you mean, for all we know you could intimate knowledge of the subject and educating us.
The relevance in were you live is the fact that these athletes that are funded by the UK are spending their money in the UK environment, you live abroad and unless visiting are not currently contributing to the UK economy, but you accuse them of giving nothing back without any proof, a very generalist statement which in my opinion is unfair.
		
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I live abroad for now because I choose too I still pay money to the UK and so do my family, where I live is not relevant and should not even be mentioned.
You may think that my opinion is unfair but I think it is fair and I think that your opinion is incorrect. So as our opinions are worth the same in the big scheme of things (Thats Jack 5hit) we will have to agree to disagree.


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So everyones entitled to opinion, apart from them you decide are a bit wrong.
:rofl:
		
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If you could read something properly then you will see that the poster said the same to me 1st at the end of his post derrrr.


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			What on earth are you talking about with regards to BBC/Sky??

And as for most of the country getting nothing out of London then most events sell outs as you had the opportunity to relatively easily attend the greatest sporting event on earth, there was a general feeling of happiness in the country whilst it was on and we got to prove to the world what a tolerant, inclusive, sports mad and generally cool country we are.  Well were until Brexit came along, but that's another thread.  Also large areas of the east of London have been regenerated.  It probably was the greatest event Britain as a nation has hosted in my life time and probably ever will.
		
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Everything does not revolve around London, many people in the North of the UK can not afford the train fare there to London never mind attend an event like the Olympics.


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You do know a lot of lottery funding actually goes to tennis clubs to keep them alive and also to fund lessons for kids - also a lot of the top players fund themselves but use facilities paid for by LTA and Lottery Funds - unless you want to name which players you are talking about ? 




So the Olympics village was built by using government money to help host the Games 4 years ago and then they sold it off to get money back ? Was the money not off good use then to help host the Olympics or would you prefer the thousands of participants brought a tent along with them ? 

You are going back 4 years and talking about money that was used by the government to help host the games 

This thread is about lottery funding to athletes to help them succeed. 

You suggested enough wasn't going to good causes so I'm guessing you are ignoring the link and the amount of billions that has been given to good causes.
		
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The money wasted on London Olympics was Tax payers money and Lottery money and government has yet to put the money back in the coffers after the sale of the Olympic village to Kuwait and the Olympic stadium being given to West ham united on a peppercorn rent.
The thing is that once again London has benefitted from the rest of the UK going without as per usual.


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## pendodave (Aug 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Taking money from the poor to give to the rich ?  What an nonsense statement
		
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Nonsense ? Not really. I'd give you metaphorical, but not sure that you'd take it.....

30% of all UK olympians in Rio were privately educated (40% of all team sport members). 7% of the total population are privately educated.

The UK lottery, like most lotteries worldwide is disproportionately played by those from lower income groups/unemployed. In addition, the lower the social/income group playing, the higher the proportion of their disposable income is spent on the lottery. When they doubled the price recently, it just make it worse.

No, the lottery is not 'taking' money from people. but to suggest that it is a voluntary donation is equally implausible.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			I live abroad for now because I choose too I still pay money to the UK and so do my family, where I live is not relevant and should not even be mentioned.
You may think that my opinion is unfair but I think it is fair and I think that your opinion is incorrect. So as our opinions are worth the same in the big scheme of things (Thats Jack 5hit) we will have to agree to disagree.
		
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So once again your opinion is fair and mine is incorrect:rofl:
Whether either of our opinions are correct or not, neither of us have the right to have a go at the Athletes without backing it up with facts.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			The money wasted on London Olympics was Tax payers money and Lottery money and government has yet to put the money back in the coffers after the sale of the Olympic village to Kuwait and the Olympic stadium being given to West ham united on a peppercorn rent.
The thing is that once again London has benefitted from the rest of the UK going without as per usual.
		
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Well just to clarify that the money to host the Olympics was in a lot of people's opinion very much not a waste with London hosting one of the most successful games in modern history in terms of people watching at the events and ticket sales plus the facilities that are still being used to this day. The feel good feeling was felt all over the country from what I could make out - I know people from all over the country who came to help out at the games to ensure it was a success. 

Again it's all 4 years ago now and it's not relevant to the current discussion of funding the athletes using lottery money 

Right now it's clear it's got to the stage were you are just blurting out stuff without any actual backing - you have thrown accusations at athletes yet fail to actually provide some basis.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			The money wasted on London Olympics was Tax payers money and Lottery money and government has yet to put the money back in the coffers after the sale of the Olympic village to Kuwait and the Olympic stadium being given to West ham united on a peppercorn rent.
The thing is that once again London has benefitted from the rest of the UK going without as per usual.
		
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You've mentioned twice now aboutt the sale of the Olympic village to Kuwait, what exactly do you mean by this?! It's still there... and lots and lots of the flats are for sale to normal people. What are you referring to about Kuwait?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2016)

pendodave said:



			Nonsense ? Not really. I'd give you metaphorical, but not sure that you'd take it.....

30% of all UK olympians in Rio were privately educated (40% of all team sport members). 7% of the total population are privately educated.

The UK lottery, like most lotteries worldwide is disproportionately played by those from lower income groups/unemployed. In addition, the lower the social/income group playing, the higher the proportion of their disposable income is spent on the lottery. When they doubled the price recently, it just make it worse.

No, the lottery is not 'taking' money from people. but to suggest that it is a voluntary donation is equally implausible.
		
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Since when was anyone "forced" to buy a lottery ticket 

It is a voluntary donation - no money is "taken" it is given by people looking to gain winnings. People have a choice - not one single person is being forced to buy a lottery ticket.


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## Rlburnside (Aug 22, 2016)

UK Sport gets a third of its income from the government and this was increased by 29% whilst funding to local authoritys grant funding was cut by 24% and the consequences of these cuts will be felt all across the country by young and old who wish to participate in sport.

Not the fairest way to distribute funding IMO


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So once again your opinion is fair and mine is incorrect:rofl:
Whether either of our opinions are correct or not, neither of us have the right to have a go at the Athletes without backing it up with facts.
		
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No our opinions are worth the same and thats Nothing as they are our just opinions. I believe that I am correct and you beleive you are and thats the end of it we will just have to agree to disagree.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2016)

Rlburnside said:



			UK Sport gets a third of its income from the government and this was increased by 29% whilst funding to local authoritys grant funding was cut by 24% and the consequences of these cuts will be felt all across the country by young and old who wish to participate in sport.

Not the fairest way to distribute funding IMO
		
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And UK sport put all their money into Sport all over the UK as opposed to local authorities who didn't. He lottery has piled in billions into Sport facilities all over the U.K. - facilities that weren't being funded by local councils or governments. In our local area alone the lottery along with UK sport has provided a local centre alongside 8 football pitches and one AstroTurf pitch. The local school got their AstroTurf relayed by lottery grant because the local council wouldn't fund it


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			No our opinions are worth the same and thats Nothing as they are our just opinions. I believe that I am correct and you beleive you are and thats the end of it we will just have to agree to disagree.
		
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Haven't once stated I'm correct, you have not once backed up any statement and failed to answer any of the points different posters have raised. More than happy to be educated by any poster with facts, everyday's a school day.&#128515;


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Haven't once stated I'm correct, you have not once backed up any statement and failed to answer any of the points different posters have raised. More than happy to be educated by any poster with facts, everyday's a school day.&#62979;
		
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I do not need to back up anything to you, you can not prove to me that every athlete does good for the community I can definately say that some athletes do not. As I said in my opinion I do not agree that Lottery money should go on Sport as in many areas (although Londoners would never know it) our old and infirm are going without and I think the money better spent on that along with Hospitals, Schools and Prisons.

I dont have to answer other posters points as I do not agree with them and they can not prove their points either as it is simply a matter of opinion as to what we put importance to and I put health care and education for the masses above sport for the elite.
We will have to agree to disagree if you think otherwise.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			I do not need to back up anything to you, you can not prove to me that every athlete does good for the community I can definately say that some athletes do not. As I said in my opinion I do not agree that Lottery money should go on Sport as in many areas (although Londoners would never know it) our old and infirm are going without and I think the money better spent on that along with Hospitals, Schools and Prisons.

I dont have to answer other posters points as I do not agree with them and they can not prove their points either as it is simply a matter of opinion as to what we put importance to and I put health care and education for the masses above sport for the elite.
We will have to agree to disagree if you think otherwise.
		
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Fair enough, pointless having these threads if anyone can just post anything without any substance or facts to back them up.
Enjoy the sun&#128515;


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Fair enough, pointless having these threads if anyone can just post anything without any substance or facts to back them up.
Enjoy the sun&#62979;
		
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Will do and what you say goes for all of us.


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## pendodave (Aug 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Since when was anyone "forced" to buy a lottery ticket , It is a voluntary donation
		
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No. It is not a voluntary donation, it is state sponsored (and taxed) gambling. Gambling is as voluntary as drinking and smoking. That's why all those nice people on telly in the adbreaks are so keen to encourage it.

If it was about voluntary donations, we would all be doing it by making a nice gift aid donation and getting the tax relief. Good luck with that one in deepest Skem.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			Will do and what you say goes for all of us.
		
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It sort of gives credibility if you can at least back up what you post, otherwise they can come across as blinkered insular ramblings.


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## gregbwfc (Aug 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Since when was anyone "forced" to buy a lottery ticket 

It is a voluntary donation - no money is "taken" it is given by people looking to gain winnings. People have a choice - not one single person is being forced to buy a lottery ticket.
		
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Indeed Phil.
And not one of us buys a ticket with good causes in mind (great that some of the money does do some good).
We buy them to win the big 'un so we don't have to go to work again.
I've felt bloody great watching our athletes this past 2 weeks - and 2012 too.

Any success we have as a country, always some folk wanting to do it down.
Is it a particularly British disesase ?


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Aug 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Taking money from the poor to give to the rich ?  What an nonsense statement 

No money is "taken" from anyone 

If people aren't happy with lottery money helping out talented people amongst thousands of other projects then don't buy the lottery
		
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I think it's generally accepted that people from poorer families pay a disproportionate amount of what little disposable income they have searching and hoping for that dream ticket to change their lives.
Given the likelihood of winning a major prize then the lottery is often seen as a tax on the poor because the money it brings in means that the government doesn't have to fund some things that previously were in it's remit.

Yes, poor people don't have to buy the lottery. They don't have to drink or smoke either. But most do at least one because life is bloody dull if you can't dream or relax a bit every now and then.....


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2016)

pendodave said:



			No. It is not a voluntary donation, it is state sponsored (and taxed) gambling. Gambling is as voluntary as drinking and smoking. That's why all those nice people on telly in the adbreaks are so keen to encourage it.

If it was about voluntary donations, we would all be doing it by making a nice gift aid donation and getting the tax relief. Good luck with that one in deepest Skem.
		
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Yes it is voluntary - it's a choice every single one of has to make. If someone chooses to buy a ticket they have done it on their own free will knowing exactly where the money goes - nothing it hidden from anyone.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			Will do and what you say goes for all of us.
		
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Any expansion on the Kuwait Olympic village thing?


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## Val (Aug 22, 2016)

pendodave said:



			No. It is not a voluntary donation, it is state sponsored (and taxed) gambling. Gambling is as voluntary as drinking and smoking. That's why all those nice people on telly in the adbreaks are so keen to encourage it.

If it was about voluntary donations, we would all be doing it by making a nice gift aid donation and getting the tax relief. Good luck with that one in deepest Skem.
		
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Well, any time I've bought a lottery ticket I did because I wanted to play and take the gamble, I wasnt forced and I voluntereed to do it, like the millions of others who do it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2016)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Any expansion on the Kuwait Olympic village thing?
		
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Shame it's from the Daily Mail 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/property...2-Four-years-s-like-live-Olympic-village.html

It seems the apartments are owned by Get Living London and Triathlon Homes - both companies giving people affordable housing


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Any expansion on the Kuwait Olympic village thing?
		
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Look it up yourself if you are still interested.


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## Hacker Khan (Aug 22, 2016)

I've not bought a lottery ticket in years but enjoy the success of the team GB Olympic team.  Does that mean I have to pay back my TV licence, or am I getting confused with this thread?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			Look it up yourself if you are still interested.
		
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Not seen anything about Kuwait and the London Olympic Village 

Found this though 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/property...2-Four-years-s-like-live-Olympic-village.html

Which shows who does own the apartments in the Olympic Village 

Can you please expand on what you are talking about pleas ?


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

Oohmeoldbacksknackered said:



			I think it's generally accepted that people from poorer families pay a disproportionate amount of what little disposable income they have searching and hoping for that dream ticket to change their lives.
Given the likelihood of winning a major prize then the lottery is often seen as a tax on the poor because the money it brings in means that the government doesn't have to fund some things that previously were in it's remit.

Yes, poor people don't have to buy the lottery. They don't have to drink or smoke either. But most do at least one because life is bloody dull if you can't dream or relax a bit every now and then.....
		
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Good post very fair and nobody can argue with that surely? I would just add that  personally have not bought a lottery ticket since the government privatised the lottery through the back door by selling to a Canadian pensions firm and then they then proceeded to make it almost impossible to actually win it by introducing more balls to the game.

I think a good idea and a fair one would be for people to be able to write on their ticket or tick a box on the ticket in what area IE arts, Sport, Cancer..... they want their part of their purchase price of their lottery ticket to go.


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not seen anything about Kuwait and the London Olympic Village 

Found this though 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/property...2-Four-years-s-like-live-Olympic-village.html

Which shows who does own the apartments in the Olympic Village 

Can you please expand on what you are talking about pleas ?
		
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It was Qatar that bought it..... I knew it was middle eastern but could have sworn it was a Kuwait family from memory of the dirty deal. It was done on the quiet under the radar. Here are some headlines from then. They have plenty of money there so I guess why they got given the World cup after Russia even though they never even had an international side at the time and its as hot as the centre of the sun there, lol

*How Qatar bought Britain: They own the Shard. They own the Olympic Village. And they don't care if their Lamborghinis get clamped when they shop at Harrods (which is theirs, too)


*


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## ger147 (Aug 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not seen anything about Kuwait and the London Olympic Village 

Found this though 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/property...2-Four-years-s-like-live-Olympic-village.html

Which shows who does own the apartments in the Olympic Village 

Can you please expand on what you are talking about pleas ?
		
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That article explains who manages both groups of properties, it doesn't state who owns them.

A few mins on Google and I found several links to articles which explained the whole Olympic Park site, flats included, were sold to a joint bid by a British firm called Delancey and the Qatari investment firm Qatari Diar.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2016)

ger147 said:



			That article explains who manages both groups of properties, it doesn't state who owns them.

A few mins on Google and I found several links to articles which explained the whole Olympic Park site, flats included, were sold to a joint bid by a British firm called Delancey and the Qatari investment firm Qatari Diar.
		
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Cheers :thup: 

So the question is now to alucard - whats. wrong with them buying the Olympic village along with a GB firm and then providing affordable housing to thousands of people who would normally struggle to find somewhere to own in the area


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

ger147 said:



			That article explains who manages both groups of properties, it doesn't state who owns them.

A few mins on Google and I found several links to articles which explained the whole Olympic Park site, flats included, were sold to a joint bid by a British firm called Delancey and the Qatari investment firm Qatari Diar.
		
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You are quite correct, the deal was done on the quiet, it was a Qatar Middle eastern family company that bought the Olympic village that was supposed to be turned into sheltered housing after the event and now this private foreign company owns it and the apartments are for private rent and the UK Government has pocketed the money..


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## ger147 (Aug 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Cheers :thup: 

So the question is now to alucard - whats. wrong with them buying the Olympic village along with a GB firm and then providing affordable housing to thousands of people who would normally struggle to find somewhere to own in the area
		
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They're not providing affordable housing as such, they are keeping them and renting them out instead.


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Cheers :thup: 

So the question is now to alucard - whats. wrong with them buying the Olympic village along with a GB firm and then providing affordable housing to thousands of people who would normally struggle to find somewhere to own in the area
		
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Well in my opinion its wrong to sell off our country to foreigners and it was stated that the Olympic village would be used to house disadvantaged people when the games were over.

 "The affordable housing" is not really affordable at all unless you are the Aga Khan and then only around 23 to 30 percent has been earmarked as "Affordable" the rest has been hi jacked for more expensive tastes.
If you do not agree thats ok but we will just have to agree to disagree otherwise.


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## ger147 (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			You are quite correct, the deal was done on the quiet, it was a Qatar Middle eastern family company that bought the Olympic village that was supposed to be turned into sheltered housing after the event and now this private foreign company owns it and the apartments are for private rent and the UK Government has pocketed the money..
		
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It wasn't done on the quiet, it was reported widely at the time. And the money went back into the Olympic contingency fund.

And the Qataris don't own it alone, they own it jointly with a British firm.

Perhaps you should take your own advice and look it up...


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			Well in my opinion its wrong to sell off our country to foreigners and it was stated that the Olympic village would be used to house disadvantaged people when the games were over.
If you do not agree thats ok but we will just have to agree to disagree otherwise.
		
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They actually only own half the Olympic Village in partnership with a GB company 

The other half is owned by Triathlon Homes 

All money from both sales went back into the Olympic contingency fund


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They actually only own half the Olympic Village in partnership with a GB company 

The other half is owned by Triathlon Homes 

All money from both sales went back into the Olympic contingency fund
		
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Not according to an article on MSN a fortnight ago it did not The Charities were asking where the money had got to because the Government was supposed to have put the 400 plus million back in the good deeds lottery fund.

[FONT=&quot]London's Olympic Village has been sold to the Qatari ruling family's property company in a deal that leaves UK taxpayers Â£275m out of pocket.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			Well in my opinion its wrong to sell off our country to foreigners.
		
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Said the Englishman living in Portugal :rofl:


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Said the Englishman living in Portugal :rofl:
		
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You sound very bitter, I have not sold anything off to foreigners and the UK or (England)is still my country, it says so on my passport.
As I said if you like being owned by foreigners and all the UKs money being spirited away to London one way or another then thats your choice.

I do not like it and I will state my opinion on it as it is worth as much as yours or anyone elses on this thread. Now I am going to have a Brandy and watch the cruise ships and boats from my sea view from one of my balconies.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			You sound very bitter, I have not sold anything off to foreigners and the UK or (England)is still my country, it says so on my passport.
As I said if you like being owned by foreigners and all the UKs money being spirited away to London one way or another then thats your choice.

I do not like it and I will state my opinion on it as it is worth as much as yours or anyone elses on this thread. Now I am going to have a Brandy and watch the cruise ships and boats from my sea view from one of my balconies.
		
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Seriously missed that one didn't you.
You are the foreigner in Portugal doing what you moan about foreigners doing in England :rofl:


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## drdel (Aug 22, 2016)

When I started this thread I didn't imagine it would cause such an argument; some at a personal level, which is quite sad.

All I pointed out was that in my view spending Â£275m might be a bit excessive - in my opinion. 

Many of the sports personalities are able to do very well from sponsorship on the back of the Lottery investment. Many are able to train overseas in comparative luxury or play on very nice sailing boats. 

Many, once fame has arrived, decide to live in a more tax advantageous country; I'd probably do the same; given the chance.

Perhaps lottery funding for individuals should be like student grants; once you earn above say Â£100k you should pay a percentage back!  I'll duck now.


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## Hacker Khan (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			You sound very bitter, I have not sold anything off to foreigners and the UK or (England)is still my country, it says so on my passport.
As I said *if you like being owned by foreigners and all the UKs money being spirited away to London one way or another then thats your choice.*

I do not like it and I will state my opinion on it as it is worth as much as yours or anyone elses on this thread. Now I am going to have a Brandy and watch the cruise ships and boats from my sea view from one of my balconies.
		
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That ship sailed a long time ago, most of the UK has been sold off to foreign investors.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 22, 2016)

drdel said:



			When I started this thread I didn't imagine it would cause such an argument; some at a personal level, which is quite sad.

All I pointed out was that in my view spending Â£275m might be a bit excessive - in my opinion. 

Many of the sports personalities are able to do very well from sponsorship on the back of the Lottery investment. Many are able to train overseas in comparative luxury or play on very nice sailing boats. 

Many, once fame has arrived, decide to live in a more tax advantageous country; I'd probably do the same; given the chance.

Perhaps lottery funding for individuals should be like student grants; once you earn above say Â£100k you should pay a percentage back!  I'll duck now.
		
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Lottery funding is means tested 

If people do well from the Olympics and their income from sponsership or appearance fee etc reaches levels where they are able to become full time athletes without the need of funding then they will not receive Lottery Funds 

"Many" didn't do what you suggest after 2012 if "any" actually did - how many actually will achieve fame and riches after 2012 ? A handful if that 

I very much doubt many will earn anywhere near Â£100k a year and if they do they won't be getting lottery funding.


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Seriously missed that one didn't you.
You are the foreigner in Portugal doing what you moan about foreigners doing in England :rofl:
		
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I did not miss anything, I have never taken a cent out of the pot in Portugal but I have put hundreds of thousands of Euros into the pot. I do not own half of Lisbon and there is a huge difference to owning a couple of properties somewhere and owning half of the UKs biggest city.
Look I do not want to argue with you so leave it we will agree to disagree, I want to enjoy my Brandy. lol


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## Hacker Khan (Aug 22, 2016)

drdel said:



			When I started this thread I didn't imagine it would cause such an argument; some at a personal level, which is quite sad.

All I pointed out was that in my view spending Â£275m might be a bit excessive - in my opinion. 

Many of the sports personalities are able to do very well from sponsorship on the back of the Lottery investment. Many are able to train overseas in comparative luxury or play on very nice sailing boats. 

*Many, once fame has arrived, decide to live in a more tax advantageous country;* I'd probably do the same; given the chance.

Perhaps lottery funding for individuals should be like student grants; once you earn above say Â£100k you should pay a percentage back!  I'll duck now.
		
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Not sure with the possible exception one or two top road cyclists, many GB Olympians live in more tax advantageous countries or play on nice sailing boats. Unless you are an Olympic sailor, in which case it's in the job description.


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			That ship sailed a long time ago, most of the UK has been sold off to foreign investors.
		
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You are quite right Hacker Khan but why not stop selling off whats left? whats next the NHS to the Yanks? time will tell.


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## PieMan (Aug 22, 2016)

My view on all this is very simple - if the success of our sports men and women in Rio inspires kids to take part in sport and strive to achieve similar success, then all the money from the lottery has been well spent in my opinion.

Also listen to all the interviews and watch the medal ceremonies and see how much pride they all had in representing our country - we need more of that from the younger generation.

With regard to who owns what in this country, the UK - and particularly London - will always attract serious foreign investment. Personally I couldn't care less who owns the Olympic Village - that part of London was a complete s*it hole pre-2012 so the regeneration for the Olympics and beyond was great for that area, and is still attracting visitors.


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## Hacker Khan (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			You are quite right Hacker Khan *but why not stop selling off whats left*? whats next the NHS to the Yanks? time will tell.
		
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Because just about any large project in the UK nowadays relies on foreign investment or foreign owned companies to make it happen. Witness the recent fuss over the nuclear power plant.


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## Rlburnside (Aug 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And UK sport put all their money into Sport all over the UK as opposed to local authorities who didn't. He lottery has piled in billions into Sport facilities all over the U.K. - facilities that weren't being funded by local councils or governments. In our local area alone the lottery along with UK sport has provided a local centre alongside 8 football pitches and one AstroTurf pitch. The local school got their AstroTurf relayded by lottery grant because the local council wouldn't fund it
		
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I know and agree lottery funding has helped all across the UK, my point was I felt the political decision to increase UK Sport funding by 29% was wrong, perhaps facilities that weren't being funded by local councils was because they had their grant budget cut.

I think it was Adam Peatys home city of Shefield that due to cuts they had a real struggle to keep some of there swimming pools open.


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Aug 22, 2016)

drdel said:



			When I started this thread I didn't imagine it would cause such an argument; some at a personal level, which is quite sad.

All I pointed out was that in my view spending Â£275m might be a bit excessive - in my opinion. 

Many of the sports personalities are able to do very well from sponsorship on the back of the Lottery investment. Many are able to train overseas in comparative luxury or play on very nice sailing boats. 

Many, once fame has arrived, decide to live in a more tax advantageous country; I'd probably do the same; given the chance.

Perhaps lottery funding for individuals should be like student grants; once you earn above say Â£100k you should pay a percentage back!  I'll duck now.
		
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I think it's been one of the better threads - you should frame it and hang it in the lav, maybe.

It's interesting to see where people place social development against individual progress and I for one am thinking slightly differently to how I was this morning.

And there's not much on a golf forum makes me admit to that.

:thup:


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			Because just about any large project in the UK nowadays relies on foreign investment or foreign owned companies to make it happen. Witness the recent fuss over the nuclear power plant.
		
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 Yes I agree but I would rather build a nuclear power plant in someone elses country and let them take the risks, the same as my view with fracking.

 As I say the NHS is the best thing that we have left in the UK.
OK some areas are funded better than others but we still have some kind of decent health care available to the poor.
It is important that we keep it and fund it better so that at least accident and emergencies can operate at full tilt for ALL.


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## Val (Aug 22, 2016)

For what it's worth my view is the lottery funding is free money to elite sports, it costs no one anything. There was no secret lottery money would fund elite sports as well as grass roots sports along with many other worthy causes. How it's distributed doesn't matter to me, it creates no austerity measures and costs me nothing unless i wish to buy a ticket.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			I did not miss anything, I have never taken a cent out of the pot in Portugal but I have put hundreds of thousands of Euros into the pot. I do not own half of Lisbon and there is a huge difference to owning a couple of properties somewhere and owning half of the UKs biggest city.
Look I do not want to argue with you so leave it we will agree to disagree, I want to enjoy my Brandy. lol
		
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So the Olympic Village is now half of London? You have done what the Middle East Companies have done but on a smaller scale, you've invested your money in a foreign land.
Enjoy your Brandy, I do hope it's a local brew &#128515;


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			So the Olympic Village is now half of London? You have done what the Middle East Companies have done but on a smaller scale, you've invested your money in a foreign land.
Enjoy your Brandy, I do hope it's a local brew &#62979;
		
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ZZZZZZZZzzz if you did not have reading difficulties as it seems and you read  my earlier post not long since in reply to another poster you would see that Quatar also owns many other things in LOndon specifically. These include ......

THE SHARD,  HARRODS, The Olympic Village, The former US embassy Building, One Hyde Park

 Chelsea Barracks,  A 200GBP million home in regents park, The Canary Wharf Financial district, Claridges the "Berkley and the Connaught", the London Stock Exchange and Camden Market.

The QIA also owns stakes in Barclays and Sainsburys and quite a lot of other none specific London things.

The Brandy by the way is Greek Metaxa as it is my favourite and I have invested "some money" here in Portugal and its a great investment as the people are great , the weather is great and life is fun.


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## PieMan (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			I have invested "some money" here in Portugal and its a great investment as the people are great , the weather is great and life is fun.
[/FONT]
		
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Swap London for Portugal and delete 'the weather is great' and I would imagine that's what some foreign investors in the UK would say too!!


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

PieMan said:



			Swap London for Portugal and delete 'the weather is great' and I would imagine that's what some foreign investors in the UK would say too!!  

Click to expand...

Lol.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 22, 2016)

PieMan said:



			Swap London for Portugal and delete 'the weather is great' and I would imagine that's what some foreign investors in the UK would say too!!  

Click to expand...

Thank you, been banging my head against a brick wall all day&#128515;


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## PieMan (Aug 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Thank you, been banging my head against a brick wall all day&#128515;
		
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The Qatari royal family own that too!! :whoo:


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			1 many athletes and sportsmen do nothing to help in communities and just take out and nobody said all of them.

2. I will take your word for it that the very so called top britisg athletes do no longer get funding but the funding massively helped to get them where they are today.

3 the Gravy train is the BBC and ITV and SKY etc where in my opinion they are overpaid for comments that most of us can see for ourselves.

4. Not anywhere near enough lottery and taxpayers money goes to grass roots sport and in many areas there are rubbish facilities for the public and they are expensive to use.
The London Olympics cost the taxpayer a fortune and most of the country got nothing out of it and the facilities (Olympic village and Olympic stadium) have been spirited away.
That is how I see it anyway.
		
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And now in Portuguese........joking,joking.


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## PieMan (Aug 22, 2016)

PieMan said:



			The Qatari royal family own that too!! :whoo:
		
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Hold on though - just been told by my sources that the wall wasn't built by British brickies, but by cheap labour from Eastern Europe! Scandalous- better start a Brexit thread.........


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

PieMan said:



			The Qatari royal family own that too!! :whoo:
		
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They sure do my friend , lol.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 22, 2016)

PieMan said:



			Hold on though - just been told by my sources that the wall wasn't built by British brickies, but by cheap labour from Eastern Europe! Scandalous- better start a Brexit thread.........

Click to expand...

Just hope none of them bought a lottery ticket and inadvertently helped our Olympic Team&#128515;


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 22, 2016)

pendodave said:



			Good luck with that one in deepest Skem.
		
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Dan, Dan, Dan...............Dan...............Dan...........................................................................Dan.......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Dan.


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Just hope none of them bought a lottery ticket and inadvertently helped our Olympic Team&#62979;
		
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What helped our Olympic team more than anything (if you buy into it) was the Russians being banned. 

I do hope that Mo can make it to his front door in even twice the time he took to run the 10 thousand meters this Olympics if the Drugs testers turn up to check him out in the USA. 

He couldnt manage it before the London Olympics in his UK residence  but did not get banned? anyway time will tell. It seems that only the Russians are suspect to some.


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## PieMan (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			I do hope that Mo can make it to his front door in even twice the time he took to run the 10 thousand meters this Olympics if the Drugs testers turn up to check him out in the USA. 

He couldnt manage it before the London Olympics in his UK residence  but did not get banned? anyway time will tell. It seems that only the Russians are suspect to some.
		
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How dare you even think something like that against Sir Mo! Shame on you!! 

In all seriousness though I think the Russians being banned from a number of events wouldn't have had too much of an impact on our medal winners - certainly not for rowing and cycling. And our main athletic winners were ranked as among the favourites.


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## bluewolf (Aug 22, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Dan, Dan, Dan...............Dan...............Dan...........................................................................Dan.......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Dan.






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LOL.. I've spent half the day hoping that no one would notice that little gem....


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## Hacker Khan (Aug 22, 2016)

Rlburnside said:



			I know and agree lottery funding has helped all across the UK, my point was I felt the political decision to increase UK Sport funding by 29% was wrong, perhaps facilities that weren't being funded by local councils was because they had their grant budget cut.

*I think it was Adam Peatys home city of Shefield* that due to cuts they had a real struggle to keep some of there swimming pools open.
		
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Sorry for being pedantic but he lives/ trains in Derby.


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## Hacker Khan (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



*What helped our Olympic team more than anything (if you buy into it) was the Russians being banned.* 

I do hope that Mo can make it to his front door in even twice the time he took to run the 10 thousand meters this Olympics if the Drugs testers turn up to check him out in the USA. 

He couldnt manage it before the London Olympics in his UK residence  but did not get banned? anyway time will tell.* It seems that only the Russians are suspect to some*.
		
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With the possible exception of Whitlock's floor routine gold care to name a gold medal team GB won in which the Russians would have put up stiff competition?

Plus although I have no proof, that American sprinter looks a bit dodgy as well...


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Aug 22, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			With the possible exception of Whitlock's floor routine gold care to name a gold medal team GB won in which the Russians would have put up stiff competition?
		
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On TalkSport this afternoon they were talking about the amount of male protection that was handed out - It sounds like there was pretty stiff opposition across the board.


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			With the possible exception of Whitlock's floor routine gold care to name a gold medal team GB won in which the Russians would have put up stiff competition?

Plus although I have no proof, that American sprinter looks a bit dodgy as well...
		
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[FONT=&quot]Yelena Isinbayeva would possibly have taken Gold, if not then certainly another medal colour  in Pole Vault and the full Russian track and field were banned. So your statement is a bit blase, lol Russia missed out on at least 6 medals due to the ban.[/FONT]


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## CheltenhamHacker (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



Yelena Isinbayeva would possibly have taken Gold, if not then certainly another medal colour  in Pole Vault and the full Russian track and field were banned. So your statement is a bit blase, lol Russia missed out on at least 6 medals due to the ban.

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The Pole Vault.... the discipline GB didn't win a medal in? If anything proving HK's point, that Russia not being there didn't overly impact the GB medal haul?


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			The Pole Vault.... the discipline GB didn't win a medal in? If anything proving HK's point, that Russia not being there didn't overly impact the GB medal haul?
		
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What about the other 6 medals in track and field that are widely known to have been lost by the Ruskies? anyway if we ban them then whats good for the Goose is good for the gander.
I know that from the past that bans are unfair and there have been cover ups. Flo Jo was a sure fire steroid user  and paid for it with her life , Ben Johnson got done for the same thing at the Seoul Olympics in 88 because he was Canadian.
If anyone is not available within one hour of the testers wishes then they should be banned with immediate effect because modern drugs leave the system very quickly.
Ole Linford got away with it for years until the Tester got his man and Dwain Chambers was another and we know there were many more too numerous to name. In fact 1 in 7 in the UK are on the juice but the skill in testing them at the right time  lets them off the hook as we do not really want to catch them.


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## Hacker Khan (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			What about the other 6 medals in track and field that are widely known to have been lost by the Ruskies? anyway if we ban them then whats good for the Goose is good for the gander.
I know that from the past that bans are unfair and there have been cover ups. Flo Jo was a sure fire steroid user  and paid for it with her life , Ben Johnson got done for the same thing at the Seoul Olympics in 88 because he was Canadian.
If anyone is not available within one hour of the testers wishes then they should be banned with immediate effect because modern drugs leave the system very quickly.
Ole Linford got away with it for years until the Tester got his man and Dwain Chambers was another and we know there were many more too numerous to name. In fact 1 in 7 in the UK are on the juice but the skill in testing them at the right time  lets them off the hook as we do not really want to catch them.
		
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As you are living in Portugal do you by any chance get all your news and facts (and I use that word lightly in your case) about what is happening in the Uk from The Daily Mail or Express? Paranoia weekly?

Come on then, name me Russia's premier 5 and 10 thousand meter runner that would have had Mo, given the chance.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			What about the other 6 medals in track and field that are widely known to have been lost by the Ruskies? anyway if we ban them then whats good for the Goose is good for the gander.
I know that from the past that bans are unfair and there have been cover ups. Flo Jo was a sure fire steroid user  and paid for it with her life , Ben Johnson got done for the same thing at the Seoul Olympics in 88 because he was Canadian.
If anyone is not available within one hour of the testers wishes then they should be banned with immediate effect because modern drugs leave the system very quickly.
Ole Linford got away with it for years until the Tester got his man and Dwain Chambers was another and we know there were many more too numerous to name. In fact 1 in 7 in the UK are on the juice but the skill in testing them at the right time  lets them off the hook as we do not really want to catch them.
		
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Wow, I suppose if you throw enough mud some will stick!


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 22, 2016)

bluewolf said:



			LOL.. I've spent half the day hoping that no one would notice that little gem.... 

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## Liverbirdie (Aug 22, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			Come on then, name me Russia's premier 5 and 10 thousand meter runner that would have had Mo, given the chance.
		
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Dothedrugsthenburnthemov?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 22, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			Sorry for being pedantic but he lives/ trains in Derby. 

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Really? That will be news to the people of Uttoxeter.


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## Rlburnside (Aug 22, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			Sorry for being pedantic but he lives/ trains in Derby. 

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Apologies your right he does come from Derby, should have googled it and not been so lazy.

So had a look on google and they say 3 swimming pools have closed in Derby in the last year through lack of funding. Kind of makes a mockery when many come on tv and say Peatys win will inspire youngsters to take up the sport. Not for Derbys youngsters it won't


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			As you are living in Portugal do you by any chance get all your news about what is happening in the Uk from The Daily Mail or Express?

Come on then, name me Russia's premier 5 and 10 thousand meter runner that would have had Mo, given the chance.
		
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ZZZZZZzzzzzzz why do dimwits try to make out where somebody chooses to live as a part of their childish agenda?

Mo failed to answer his door being kicked off its hinges for a couple of hours a few years back before the London Olympics by lets say inconvenient  Drug testers. That is a fact! It was his second missed drug test!!!!!!


 I never said that any Russian athlete would beat him in the 5 and 10 thousand meters but they had at least 6 great medal chances in track and field stolen from them due to the ban.

I think that with the evidence of Mos trainer and his training partner being brought into disrepute with drug use and the fact he failed to answer his door being kicked off its hinges for a couple of hours by drug testers when he was hiding in his home   (he claimed he slept through it all )  is proof that something smelt rotten in Denmark. 

You may disagree but my theory will never change because it all adds up. .


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			ZZZZZZzzzzzzz why do dimwits try to make out where somebody chooses to live as a part of their childish agenda?

Mo failed to answer his door being kicked off its hinges for a couple of hours a few years back before the London Olympics by lets say inconvenient  Drug testers. That is a fact! It was his second missed drug test!!!!!!


 I never said that any Russian athlete would beat him in the 5 and 10 thousand meters but they had at least 6 great medal chances in track and field stolen from them due to the ban.

I think that with the evidence of Mos trainer and his training partner being brought into disrepute with drug use and the fact he failed to answer his door being kicked off its hinges for a couple of hours by drug testers when he was hiding in his home   (he claimed he slept through it all )  is proof that something smelt rotten in Denmark. 

You may disagree but my theory will never change because it all adds up. .
		
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Insulting people now? Brandy must be going down well, 
Can you explain how banning drug cheats means they have had medals stolen from them, surely it's the clean athletes who have been robbed for years?


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## Alucard (Aug 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Insulting people now? Brandy must be going down well, 
Can you explain how banning drug cheats means they have had medals stolen from them, surely it's the clean athletes who have been robbed for years?
		
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Simply because we did not know for sure they were drug cheats but Mo sticks out like a sore thumb to me and many other good judges as did Linford as he was getting faster as he got older and in sprinting thats a No No.
Bt the way the Greek Brandy went down well you should try some yourself to chill out a bit,  I just had a large measure after I posted the facts about Mo and the 2 missed drugs tests. One rule for one and another for another as they say, oh well Goodnight.


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## BesCumber (Aug 22, 2016)

Alucard said:



			ZZZZZZzzzzzzz why do dimwits try to make out where somebody chooses to live as a part of their childish agenda?

Mo failed to answer his door being kicked off its hinges for a couple of hours a few years back before the London Olympics by lets say inconvenient  Drug testers. That is a fact! It was his second missed drug test!!!!!!


 I never said that any Russian athlete would beat him in the 5 and 10 thousand meters but they had at least 6 great medal chances in track and field stolen from them due to the ban.

I think that with the evidence of Mos trainer and his training partner being brought into disrepute with drug use and the fact he failed to answer his door being kicked off its hinges for a couple of hours by drug testers when he was hiding in his home   (he claimed he slept through it all )  is proof that something smelt rotten in Denmark. 

You may disagree but my theory will never change because it all adds up. .
		
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www.canisueforthat.com/can-i-sue-for-false-accusations/
No legal expert but you might be sailing pretty close to wind matey. :thup:


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## CheltenhamHacker (Aug 23, 2016)

BesCumber said:



www.canisueforthat.com/can-i-sue-for-false-accusations/
No legal expert but you might be sailing pretty close to wind matey. :thup:
		
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I think if he is close, http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewforum.php?f=20 , these guys are in lots of trouble! Lots of interesting (and some paranoid) information on there, especially around Mo. It certainly looks dodgy, the more you look into it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 23, 2016)

Lots of mud has been thrown around towards Farah and his coach and none of it has stuck - accusations but none proven 

It's a shame that when someone does well in the sporting arena that people are automatically suspicious and I think in modern times that is a natural reaction 

But I don't think it's fair - as with everything in life Farah should be treated as clean until someone proves otherwise - they get tested so much on such a regular basis that it must be very very hard to dodge being caught. 

Missing tests doesn't automatically mean they are cheating - Farah missed two but then so many have missed tests throughout their career but are still clean athletes. 

Maybe I'm niave about it but as far as I'm concerned they are clean until proven otherwise - GB have had a few been caught but we can all name them which shows exactly how small a number it is 

Maybe we should just applaud Farahs hard work and dedication to his sport and congratulate him on his amazing feats instead of pointing the finger of accusations 

For me half the time those that accuse are either bitter or jealous but I hope they aren't right


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## PieMan (Aug 23, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's a shame that when someone does well in the sporting arena that people are automatically suspicious and I think in modern times that is a natural reaction
		
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I think this is down to for years this country having an attitude of celebrating the plucky loser/underdog rather than celebrating success. However this is beginning to change - in large part due to London 2012 - and hopefully we'll see more GB sports men and women adopting a tougher mentality and winning attitude when it comes to competition. On this point, was so refreshing to hear one of our medal recipients say something along the lines of "You only 'win' gold; you 'take home' the other medals" - that's what everyone should be saying.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 23, 2016)

I didn't know where to post this but it is not worth a thread on its own and it is Olympic related. Question for you. The athletes came home today on a specially chartered flight. Who decides who went 1st class, business or standard? Too many gold medallists to do it based on that. Lots of big, tall, muscular and wide, people on there. Far more than the number of big seats. I'm sure they all get served the same food etc, it is seat size that is critical on long haul. Who gets the beds and who gets folded up and cramped in the cattle seats. How does it work?


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## User62651 (Aug 23, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I didn't know where to post this but it is not worth a thread on its own and it is Olympic related. Question for you. The athletes came home today on a specially chartered flight. Who decides who went 1st class, business or standard? Too many gold medallists to do it based on that. Lots of big, tall, muscular and wide, people on there. Far more than the number of big seats. I'm sure they all get served the same food etc, it is seat size that is critical on long haul. Who gets the beds and who gets folded up and cramped in the cattle seats. How does it work?
		
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Joe Joyce in the biggest best seat, rowing cox at the back of economy and free for all for the rest. 

Probably a huge booze-up mile high club shenanigans! I have it on very good authority that the Olympic village in the last few days when everyone's finished their events turns into something akin to the last days of Pompeii - into a shagfest basically.


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## GB72 (Aug 23, 2016)

From what I heard on the radio, gold medalists turn left, everyone else turns right


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 23, 2016)

Bearing in mind how many golds we won, don't forget a team winning eg rowing 8, womens hockey, cycling 4 etc counts as one gold, then that plane would have a disproportionate number of left turn seats. Did they re-configure the plane?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 23, 2016)

Wouldn't shock me if the management and pen pushers went left and the athletes right.


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## GB72 (Aug 23, 2016)

Certainly when they were interviewing athletes on 5 live in the run up they were saying that the added bonus of a gold medal was that you got to fly first class on the way back. Not sure who takes priority if there are not enough seats.


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## Rlburnside (Aug 23, 2016)

I think it was reported there was a bit of bad feelings on the way out as to the seat allocation.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 23, 2016)

It was certainly much easier when we only came back with 2 or 3 golds at an Olympics. These are of course very nice problems to resolve.


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## SocketRocket (Aug 23, 2016)

So what is the real benefit of this funding.  Is it the pride in peeing higher up the wall than countries like China (I know it's not an actual Olympic event yet) .  Is it to show that British sports people can be honed into world class athletes if we throw enough money at it.   Is it a way of encouraging other people to participate in sports for the betterment of their health/well being/bank accounts.  Is it, as suggested; a way to increase and improve sports facilities around the country for the betterment of all?

If I think with my heart then it's great, with my head I'm not so sure, maybe all this  money could be better targeted to improve the lives and aspirations of the hard up and disenfranchised, you don't see many rowing teams emerging from Peckham Comp .


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 23, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			So what is the real benefit of this funding.  Is it the pride in peeing higher up the wall than countries like China (I know it's not an actual Olympic event yet) .  Is it to show that British sports people can be honed into world class athletes if we throw enough money at it.   Is it a way of encouraging other people to participate in sports for the betterment of their health/well being/bank accounts.  Is it, as suggested; a way to increase and improve sports facilities around the country for the betterment of all?

If I think with my heart then it's great, with my head I'm not so sure, maybe all this  money could be better targeted to improve the lives and aspirations of the hard up, you don't see many rowing teams emerging from Peckham Comp .
		
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Not yet from Peckham Comp, but maybe in the future, the amount of medal winners from state funded schools rose this year,
Dujardin, Kenny, Whitlock, Trott and Farah amongst others all went to Comprehensives.
We'll never please everyone, but so long as we see infrastructure improve and UK Sport continue, with what I believe, to use the robust selection criteria for funding then it gets my support.


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