# Ping - A Potential Problem



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 14, 2014)

Went for a try of the I25 irons today. Indoor bay and trackman given the weather was so bad. Hit some balls and some base line figures with my TM Tour Preferred, 78mph with 7 iron and 139 average carry. G25 gave 79mph and 141 so minimal difference. Dispersion similar.

Hit the I25 with the standard CFs shaft http://www.ping.com/clubs/ironsdetail.aspx?id=16359 which had the same average speed of 78mph but was getting the ball out to 146 yards so a definite improvement. And then the curve ball. My pro gave me the CFS Distance. It's has exactly the same step pattern as the standard shaft but should only be offered as part of the Karsten set up (according to Ping later). Only a gramme difference in weight so more or less the same as the stock offering. http://www.ping.com/clubs/ironsdetail.aspx?id=16428

Ball speed rose to 83mph and distance went out to 151 with a tighter dispersion. On paper the ideal shaft. My teaching pro calls Ping and apparently according to their technical guys there is no difference in the shafts except when inserted into the Karsten it is 1/4 longer because of the hosel on that club compared to the I25 and apart from the fact he shouldn't have offered me that shaft as an I25 option they didn't believe him. He read the trackman numbers and I think ended up mailing them. I clearly have a shaft that works for my swing and yet Ping aren't happy to offer me the CFS Distance as an option.

I could go with the lesser option and the stock option but why should I and would it really hurt Ping to sell me the other option even if the pro made an error with giving me the option. I left them discussing the in and outs and Rhys (my teaching pro) was going through the data again. I'm hoping common sense prevails but not holding my breath


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## User20205 (Feb 14, 2014)

With all due respect homie you bought clubs based on trackman last year....just buy the ones you think are prettiest, the data is pretty much irrelevant :thup:


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 14, 2014)

Sigh. You'd rather I stood on an open range in lashing rain and gale force winds to get numbers that would be wildly inaccuarate. My issue isn't with the numbers but Ping's reluctance to sell me the I25 in the best performing shaft.


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## garyinderry (Feb 14, 2014)

strange. I see no reason why they couldn't just stick the shaft in for you and let you pay for it.



why not have a bash with the karsten irons with this shaft.  the extra 1/4 inch might even get you a few more yards.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2014)

therod said:



			With all due respect homie you bought clubs based on trackman last year....just buy the ones you think are prettiest, the data is pretty much irrelevant :thup:
		
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Look at it in a positive way - 6 month old I25's for sale soon  

:thup:


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## virtuocity (Feb 14, 2014)

Homer did you have a hit of the Karsten irons?  They are due out today and I heard the hybrids in the sets are awesome.


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## chellie (Feb 14, 2014)

virtuocity said:



			Homer did you have a hit of the Karsten irons? They are due out today and I heard the hybrids in the sets are awesome.
		
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I tried a Karsten iron last week and thought it was bloody awful. Just hope when I'm back again for my CF that they don't give me the best numbers


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## Foxholer (Feb 14, 2014)

How about a (further) 1/4" longer with the standard shaft?

What did Ping suggest?

Btw. Are you comparing like for like? I know I25s are slightly lower loft 7i is 33* than current TM TP MCs (34*), so probably a bit lower again (and potentially a bit longer) than yours.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 14, 2014)

virtuocity said:



			Homer did you have a hit of the Karsten irons?  They are due out today and I heard the hybrids in the sets are awesome.
		
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chellie said:



			I tried a Karsten iron last week and thought it was bloody awful. Just hope when I'm back again for my CF that they don't give me the best numbers

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Only the I25 and to be honest I'm not biting. The I25's were excellent and I just need Ping to do the right thing. Maybe it was just a mix up in communications and they can get it sorted.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2014)

FC took a I25 7 Iron today to test - had a go with it , felt nice of the club but distance was reduced compared to my current clubs. 

The bottom just feels a bit too big. 

Certainly hardly see the difference between them and the I20's 

Nothing compared to the new TMTP's though - they are lovely and come of the face with a lovely feel and sound


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## virtuocity (Feb 14, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Only the I25 and to be honest I'm not biting. The I25's were excellent and I just need Ping to do the right thing. Maybe it was just a mix up in communications and they can get it sorted.
		
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I hope they do the right thing and offer you the option.  But make sure that when they do that you go and have another hit.

If you find you aren't getting the numbers as well as the LOVE then hit up another brand.


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## DAVEYBOY (Feb 14, 2014)

I hope you get the set-up you want Homer :thup:


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 14, 2014)

I must be missing the point.

Ping assemble clubs at Gainsborough, don't they? So what is preventing them inserting the shafts you want into the head that you have chosen.

What can be their problem. I would push them if I were you Homer.


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## Siren (Feb 14, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			I must be missing the point.

Ping assemble clubs at Gainsborough, don't they? So what is preventing them inserting the shafts you want into the head that you have chosen.

What can be their problem. I would push them if I were you Homer.
		
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Pretty much how I see it as well. Seems very strange.


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## User20205 (Feb 14, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sigh. You'd rather I stood on an open range in lashing rain and gale force winds to get numbers that would be wildly inaccuarate. My issue isn't with the numbers but Ping's reluctance to sell me the I25 in the best performing shaft.
		
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You can sigh all you like homie, maybe even hurrumph!!.. You live your life on social media but don't welcome any dissenting comment. rolley rolley eyes.

Something smells fishy... I feel homergate 3 coming on.....there is absolutely no way you're carrying a 7 iron 151 :whoo:


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## Foxholer (Feb 14, 2014)

If attributes of Hosel in I25 and Karsten models aren't the same, then it becomes a 'hybrid' build, so probably not guaranteed etc.


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## hovis (Feb 14, 2014)

Just buy them homer.  Who cares how you hit them when they look that sexy


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Feb 14, 2014)

Homer

In the 'olde days' people used to go to the practice range with a selection of clubs and make a decision based on looks, confidence, feel and performance. Today people hit a load of balls into a screen and pick the club that gives the best 'numbers' regardless of the feel or confidence the club gives them. Confidence is a major part of golf, I couldn't live with a club that didn't inspire confidence or feel good through the ball regardless of the numbers it produces in a net. 

From reading your posts on here, confidence seems to be a pretty big part of your game. Forget the 'technically best' clubs and find one that makes you feel good and lets you hit decent shots. You'll feel a lot happier with them out on the course  :thup:


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## Tommo21 (Feb 14, 2014)

therod said:



			You can sigh all you like homie, maybe even hurrumph!!.. You live your life on social media but don't welcome any dissenting comment. rolley rolley eyes.

Something smells fishy... I feel homergate 3 coming on.....there is absolutely no way you're carrying a 7 iron 151 :whoo:
		
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Was Homer supposed to welcome, as you say, dissenting comments.


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## NWJocko (Feb 14, 2014)

therod said:



			. You live your life on social media but don't welcome any dissenting comment

:
		
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Tend to agree Homer, you seem a bit precious for someone who puts themselves "out there" so much on t'interweb.....


Anyway, I can't understand why Ping wouldn't just fit the shafts, its not clear if you've pushed for that to happen?  If you did what was their response?

Could you get an independent club fitter to order the components separately and put them together?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 14, 2014)

virtuocity said:



			Homer did you have a hit of the Karsten irons?  They are due out today and I heard the hybrids in the sets are awesome.
		
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chellie said:



			I tried a Karsten iron last week and thought it was bloody awful. Just hope when I'm back again for my CF that they don't give me the best numbers

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hovis said:



			Just buy them homer.  Who cares how you hit them when they look that sexy
		
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NWJocko said:



			Tend to agree Homer, you seem a bit precious for someone who puts themselves "out there" so much on t'interweb.....


Anyway, I can't understand why Ping wouldn't just fit the shafts, its not clear if you've pushed for that to happen?  If you did what was their response?

Could you get an independent club fitter to order the components separately and put them together?
		
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Can't buy them if Ping won't supply the shaft I want. I left my teaching pro and Ping discussing it and he was going to mail the numbers to them to verify the difference between the two CFS shafts. I'm just waiting to see what they say


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## richart (Feb 14, 2014)

I think the speeds you quote are swing speeds and not ball speeds. Don't remember you having a seniors swing.

I agree with Gordon. When I bought my Mizuno irons, I tried a few, picked the model that felt right, and than just let them fit the right shafts for me. Still got them four years later, and not even considered changing.


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## NWJocko (Feb 14, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Can't buy them if Ping won't supply the shaft I want. I left my teaching pro and Ping discussing it and he was going to mail the numbers to them to verify the difference between the two CFS shafts. I'm just waiting to see what they say
		
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What I'm saying is you have hardly pushed the issue have you!? Talk to them direct and ask them to explain exactly why they don't want to sell you that combination!

Also, my second point was go the independent route, have you even considered that?


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## User20205 (Feb 14, 2014)

Tommo21 said:



			Was Homer supposed to welcome, as you say, dissenting comments.
		
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 Not necessarily, but you can't have a forum full of consensus. 

Welcome or not, you post a thread you get a reaction. 

What's your opinion on homers ping shaft conundrum ??


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Homer

In the 'olde days' people used to go to the practice range with a selection of clubs and make a decision based on looks, confidence, feel and performance. Today people hit a load of balls into a screen and pick the club that gives the best 'numbers' regardless of the feel or confidence the club gives them. Confidence is a major part of golf, I couldn't live with a club that didn't inspire confidence or feel good through the ball regardless of the numbers it produces in a net. 

From reading your posts on here, confidence seems to be a pretty big part of your game. Forget the 'technically best' clubs and find one that makes you feel good and lets you hit decent shots. You'll feel a lot happier with them out on the course  :thup:
		
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Totally agree - I have no idea what the numbers where when I got mine fitted

I liked the way they looked , felt and the way the ball went when I connected with them

I would suggest Homer forget all about numbers and linear and swing progression etc etc and just go out and hit the ball without thinking. He is far too tied up in the technical aspect of the game. The acting like a pro threads mirror him perfectly - never witnessed anything like.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 14, 2014)

virtuocity said:



			Homer did you have a hit of the Karsten irons?  They are due out today and I heard the hybrids in the sets are awesome.
		
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chellie said:



			I tried a Karsten iron last week and thought it was bloody awful. Just hope when I'm back again for my CF that they don't give me the best numbers

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hovis said:



			Just buy them homer.  Who cares how you hit them when they look that sexy
		
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NWJocko said:



			Tend to agree Homer, you seem a bit precious for someone who puts themselves "out there" so much on t'interweb.....


Anyway, I can't understand why Ping wouldn't just fit the shafts, its not clear if you've pushed for that to happen?  If you did what was their response?

Could you get an independent club fitter to order the components separately and put them together?
		
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NWJocko said:



			What I'm saying is you have hardly pushed the issue have you!? Talk to them direct and ask them to explain exactly why they don't want to sell you that combination!

Also, my second point was go the independent route, have you even considered that?
		
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I haven't considered the independent route as I wanted to give the business to the pro. I have left the issue with the pro and won't push it until he has a definitive NO from them.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Can't buy them if Ping won't supply the shaft I want. I left my teaching pro and Ping discussing it and he was going to mail the numbers to them to verify the difference between the two CFS shafts. I'm just waiting to see what they say
		
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The numbers should have zero meaning - forget the numbers 

If hitting with a certain shaft gives you confidence then the pro and Ping should provide what you require. 

If not then go to a manufacturer that can give a club that you feel confident with 

Forget numbers - you bought your last club based on numbers and how long have they lasted


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## NWJocko (Feb 14, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I haven't considered the independent route as I wanted to give the business to the pro. I have left the issue with the pro and won't push it until he has a definitive NO from them.
		
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Ah, I get it. You're getting "your people" to speak to "their people"

Jesus wept, for something you feel strongly enough about to put a post on here complaining then speak to them yourself and find out why. No?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 14, 2014)

For Pete's sake. The reason for the desire to change are well documents and have nothing to do with numbers but a shallow and vein desire (in forum words) for something aesthetically more inspiring. Of course numbers are important and even I'm not barmy enough to just change for the sake of it and go to something that is not performing as well. Of course Ping should supply the shaft but if that isn't suppose to be an offering in their stock I25 fitting and they say no then it does make the matter a little more complicated.


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## chellie (Feb 14, 2014)

I was able to try the Karsten with a senior shaft. Can't see that option on Pings website but I know that if that's what's right for me my Pro will get it. Confused.com


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## richart (Feb 14, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			For Pete's sake. The reason for the desire to change are well documented
		
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 I think the whole forum can agree on that.:thup:


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## User20205 (Feb 14, 2014)

Just buy them off the peg homie.

You got the right clubs for you last year according to the numbers....and they were wrong!

Buy the clubs you want, forget about an extra 1/2 mph ball speed. The right clubs were wrong, maybe the wrong clubs will be right. :thup:


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## SocketRocket (Feb 14, 2014)

therod said:



			Just buy them off the peg homie.

You got the right clubs for you last year according to the numbers....and they were wrong!

Buy the clubs you want, forget about an extra 1/2 mph ball speed. The right clubs were wrong, maybe the wrong clubs will be right. :thup:
		
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Thats right :thup:

Still dont know why the THUP has a red face ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 14, 2014)

therod said:



			Just buy them off the peg homie.

You got the right clubs for you last year according to the numbers....and they were wrong!

Buy the clubs you want, forget about an extra 1/2 mph ball speed. The right clubs were wrong, maybe the wrong clubs will be right. :thup:
		
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THEY WEREN'T WRONG!! I just want something more aesthetic, especially in the shorter irons. I can hit the G25 well but have confidence looking down on the short irons for pitching and chipping. Vein. Probably. Shallow. Almost undoubtedly. There was nothing wrong with the fit or the outcome. I still need green dot in the I25 if I can get the right shaft from Ping. How much more clearly can I put this. THE G25's WERE NOT FITTED WRONGLY. I JUST WANT TO LOOK ON A SMALLER HEADED CLUB!!


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## User20205 (Feb 14, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Thats right :thup:

Still dont know why the THUP has a red face ?
		
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constipation:thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2014)

They weren't wrong if you're just concentrating on the numbers 

But it's more than just numbers of a Flightscope that give golfers the right clubs 

You are looking to change clubs because you have no confidence in the clubs in your hand - they aren't pleasing to your eye 

You ignored feel and aesthetically pleasing when getting fitted hence why the fitting produced the wrong  clubs for hence why you are buying a whole new set 6 months later

Unless your scores got better and handicap decreased since buying them


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## User20205 (Feb 14, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			THEY WEREN'T WRONG!! I just want something more aesthetic, especially in the shorter irons. I can hit the G25 well but have confidence looking down on the short irons for pitching and chipping. Vein. Probably. Shallow. Almost undoubtedly. There was nothing wrong with the fit or the outcome. I still need green dot in the I25 if I can get the right shaft from Ping. How much more clearly can I put this. THE G25's WERE NOT FITTED WRONGLY. I JUST WANT TO LOOK ON A SMALLER HEADED CLUB!!
		
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They were wrong because they don't look right. You can't have the right clubs that look wrong, that means they aren't right 


My point is save yourself all this heartache, buy yourself the wrong clubs that look right, then you won't be stuck with the right/wrong clubs, instead you will have the wrong/right clubs :thup:


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 14, 2014)

Just leave it in the hands of your people. Pretty sure they'll thrash out a good deal with Ping.
Dread to think what the reaction of your fans will be when they discover that Ping are playing hardball when it comes to shaft options.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 14, 2014)

You argued the toss on the original post. I told you then and I'll tell you again, the fitting was done in a studio WITH an outside range adjacent so not only did I have the numbers but I got to watch the ball flight too. Where did I say I am ignoring feel. I said on the original thread and again I'll spell it out simply for you (you clearly select what you want to hear and read - you aren't related to DelcC?) I should have waited for the swing changes to bed in and have more trust and I probably bought in haste. Maybe they are the right clubs and I should get over the looks of the shorter clubs and get on with chipping and pitching with them. At the end of the day it is MY decision and my cash. I am happier with where my game is if only I could get out and play, especially in qualifiers. I might have another mare of a season. So what. I'm happy with my clubs (and the TM TP's were in the bag for four years before I changed to the G25's and are back in the bag again). No doubt you being a single figure golfer your opinion is far more valid or maybe you enjoy being obtuse and dogmatic


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## richart (Feb 14, 2014)

therod said:



			They were wrong because they don't look right. You can't have the right clubs that look wrong, that means they aren't right 


My point is save yourself all this heartache, buy yourself the wrong clubs that look right, then you won't be stuck with the right/wrong clubs, instead you will have the wrong/right clubs :thup:
		
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Ever thought of becoming a politician ? You have a natural flair for talking gibberish. I am really getting the hang of the rollyeyes now.:thup:

For some one with probably the worst taste in clubs I have ever known, you should be banned from club threads.:ears:


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## User20205 (Feb 14, 2014)

richart said:



			Ever thought of becoming a politician ? You have a natural flair for talking gibberish. I am really getting the hang of the rollyeyes now.:thup:

For some one with probably the worst taste in clubs I have ever known, you should be banned from club threads.:ears:

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You can stick  it up your ghastly flabber!!!:thup:  my clubs are modern classics, the ping zings of their day... Infact there is a set for sale on the forum now. Treat yourself to a cheeky set of callaway 'tours'!!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Feb 14, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Homer

In the 'olde days' people used to go to the practice range with a selection of clubs and make a decision based on looks, confidence, feel and performance. Today people hit a load of balls into a screen and pick the club that gives the best 'numbers' regardless of the feel or confidence the club gives them. Confidence is a major part of golf, I couldn't live with a club that didn't inspire confidence or feel good through the ball regardless of the numbers it produces in a net. 

From reading your posts on here, confidence seems to be a pretty big part of your game. Forget the 'technically best' clubs and find one that makes you feel good and lets you hit decent shots. You'll feel a lot happier with them out on the course  :thup:
		
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HomerJSimpson said:



			THEY WEREN'T WRONG!! I just want something more aesthetic, especially in the shorter irons. I can hit the G25 well but have confidence looking down on the short irons for pitching and chipping. Vein. Probably. Shallow. Almost undoubtedly. There was nothing wrong with the fit or the outcome. I still need green dot in the I25 if I can get the right shaft from Ping. How much more clearly can I put this. THE G25's WERE NOT FITTED WRONGLY. I JUST WANT TO LOOK ON A SMALLER HEADED CLUB!!
		
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Says it all I think  :mmm:


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			You argued the toss on the original post. I told you then and I'll tell you again, the fitting was done in a studio WITH an outside range adjacent so not only did I have the numbers but I got to watch the ball flight too. Where did I say I am ignoring feel. I said on the original thread and again I'll spell it out simply for you (you clearly select what you want to hear and read - you aren't related to DelcC?) I should have waited for the swing changes to bed in and have more trust and I probably bought in haste. Maybe they are the right clubs and I should get over the looks of the shorter clubs and get on with chipping and pitching with them. At the end of the day it is MY decision and my cash. I am happier with where my game is if only I could get out and play, especially in qualifiers. I might have another mare of a season. So what. I'm happy with my clubs (and the TM TP's were in the bag for four years before I changed to the G25's and are back in the bag again). No doubt you being a single figure golfer your opinion is far more valid or maybe you enjoy being obtuse and dogmatic
		
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Sorry but when did I mention anything about my opinion being more valid because of my handicap ?!

You have droned on and on and on about your G25's for a few months now and haven't stopped talking about the I25's including droning on in blogs 

When you do drone on so much you will get people picking up point and analysing them - if you can't handle that then I would suggest you don't put your whole golfing life into social media 

Swing changes bedding in ?! Happier where my game is ?! It's laughable - never seen a mid handicapper act so much like a pro yet not be able to handle the criticism that will obviously come with that. 

Even in that post you say you're happy with your clubs - why change then ?


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## the smiling assassin (Feb 14, 2014)

Go for them (it's nice to use nice tools) but don't expect your chipping to improve because of the switch - it will not.


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## richart (Feb 14, 2014)

therod said:



			You can stick  it up your ghastly flabber!!!:thup:  my clubs are modern classics, the ping zings of their day... Infact there is a set for sale on the forum now. Treat yourself to a cheeky set of callaway 'tours'!!
		
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 I seem to remember you had a putter the size of a house, and what was that hybrid you had ? It was so pig ugly so you only got it out of the bag when you thought no one was looking.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 14, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You have droned on and on and on about your G25's for a few months now and haven't stopped talking about the I25's including droning on in blogs 

When you do drone on so much you will get people picking up point and analysing them - if you can't handle that then I would suggest you don't put your whole golfing life into social media 

Swing changes bedding in ?! Happier where my game is ?! It's laughable - never seen a mid handicapper act so much like a pro yet not be able to handle the criticism that will obviously come with that. 

Even in that post you say you're happy with your clubs - why change then ?
		
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Sorry but who is forcing you to read my blog ?? If you don't like it then don't read it. Funny how others come on and say they are having lessons, making improvements and feel they are making progress and no comments. It's a forum and I'll post what I feel (within the rules). You really don't read the posts. I am changing the G25's because I don't like the look of the short irons. Maybe you can get someone to explain that to you.

I don't see what my blog, my posts or anything has to do with it.


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## richart (Feb 14, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sorry but who is forcing you to read my blog ?? If you don't like it then don't read it. Funny how others come on and say they are having lessons, making improvements and feel they are making progress and no comments. It's a forum and I'll post what I feel (within the rules). You really don't read the posts. I am changing the G25's because I don't like the look of the short irons. Maybe you can get someone to explain that to you.

I don't see what my blog, my posts or anything has to do with it.
		
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Could you not make up a combi set. Keep the medium irons and just get some prettier short irons ? Just a thought.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 14, 2014)

Its an idea but I am finicky and prefer a matching set throughout the bag. It seems from today that I was getting a few more yards with the I25 anyway.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Feb 14, 2014)

richart said:



			Could you not make up a combi set. Keep the medium irons and just get some prettier short irons ? Just a thought.
		
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This thread really doesn't need people like you coming on here and ruining it by making sensible suggestions like this  ^^

:ears:


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## drawboy (Feb 14, 2014)

TBH I'm over the whole custom fitting malarkey I have been CF'ed for 1 set, they were Mizzy jpx's and I didn't hit them any better than any others I've had off the peg. I just think it is a gimmick. I understand flex has to be correct but after that until I get to low singles which I never will at my age then my swing isn't going to be consistent enough to bother with CF. My handicap tells me how good I am. I'm sorry to upset anyone but for my money anyone from 28-low singles doesn't need it. Get the right flex and practice,practice and practice again. No one can buy success off the shelf and certainly not from bashing a ball into a net or screen and looking at figures.
Do the nets tell you how good you are off a hanging side hill lie, uphill lie, bunker,deep rough, divots, under trees, over ponds, into wind and all the 1000's of other variables that we all meet on a typical round? No I do not think so, let me know the next time you have a perfect flat lie and no wind or hazards then see if you carry your 7 iron 151 yards to a pin tucked behind a bunker with a medal card in your hand. 
This is a general reply and not aimed at Homer in any way.


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## User20205 (Feb 14, 2014)

richart said:



			I seem to remember you had a putter the size of a house, and what was that hybrid you had ? It was so pig ugly so you only got it out of the bag when you thought no one was looking.
		
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You're right I do love an ugly club!! That hybrid was awesome, I stuck it in the garage now I can't find it 

Maybe I'll make homie an offer for the wrong pings, I would give them the love and respect they deserve.

If only they had the right shafts for me, maybe Ping could provide me with the right shafts ??  I hear they can be very accommodating when it comes to shafting !!!!

They certainly shafted homer on the g25's:whoo:


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 14, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sorry but who is forcing you to read my blog ?? If you don't like it then don't read it. Funny how others come on and say they are having lessons, making improvements and feel they are making progress and no comments. It's a forum and I'll post what I feel (within the rules). You really don't read the posts. I am changing the G25's because I don't like the look of the short irons. Maybe you can get someone to explain that to you.

I don't see what my blog, my posts or anything has to do with it.
		
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Homer why not just change the clubs with little fuss? I know it's a golf forum & we all like to talk about getting new clubs,But you take it to a whole new level. Others mention going for a custom fit & then let us know how they got on. You just drag it on & on & on & on.


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## User20205 (Feb 14, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Its an idea but I am finicky and prefer a matching set throughout the bag. It seems from today that I was getting a few more yards with the I25 anyway.
		
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Don't believe the stats they lie..buy for love not practicality.

What about a set of mizuno mp64's they look pretty and oooooh so buttery soft


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Feb 14, 2014)

drawboy said:



			TBH I'm over the whole custom fitting malarkey I have been CF'ed for 1 set, they were Mizzy jpx's and I didn't hit them any better than any others I've had off the peg. I just think it is a gimmick. I understand flex has to be correct but after that until I get to low singles which I never will at my age then my swing isn't going to be consistent enough to bother with CF. My handicap tells me how good I am. I'm sorry to upset anyone but for my money anyone from 28-low singles doesn't need it. Get the right flex and practice,practice and practice again. No one can buy success off the shelf and certainly not from bashing a ball into a net or screen and looking at figures.
*Do the nets tell you how good you are off a hanging side hill lie, uphill lie, bunker,deep rough, divots, under trees, over ponds, into wind and all the 1000's of other variables that we all meet on a typical round?* No I do not think so, let me know the next time you have a perfect flat lie and no wind or hazards then see if you carry your 7 iron 151 yards to a pin tucked behind a bunker with a medal card in your hand. 
This is a general reply and not aimed at Homer in any way.
		
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Jeez.....how many shots do you hit in a round?   


Seriously though.....good post  :thup:


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## palindromicbob (Feb 14, 2014)

All the R&D that Ping have done to create the I25 and offer a comprehensive range of fitting options and you and your pro have managed to ruin it. Naughty Homer.


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## richart (Feb 14, 2014)

therod said:



			You're right I do love an ugly club!! That hybrid was awesome, I stuck it in the garage now I can't find it 

Click to expand...

 Did exactly have much second/third/fourth (?) hand value.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 14, 2014)

palindromicbob said:



			All the R&D that Ping have done to create the I25 and offer a comprehensive range of fitting options and you and your pro have managed to ruin it. Naughty Homer. 

Click to expand...

I blame my pro. Had he not sprinkled some magic dust on the CFS Distance shaft and given it to me I'd have been mulling over the stock shaft in stiff or regular


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sorry but who is forcing you to read my blog ?? If you don't like it then don't read it. Funny how others come on and say they are having lessons, making improvements and feel they are making progress and no comments. It's a forum and I'll post what I feel (within the rules). You really don't read the posts. I am changing the G25's because I don't like the look of the short irons. Maybe you can get someone to explain that to you.

I don't see what my blog, my posts or anything has to do with it.
		
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Others don't do it on such a regular basis as you do 

And I'm sure if you can post what you wish then others can also post in reply what they wish 

Are you just looking for positive reactions to what you post about swing changes or club changes 

Shall we all just happy clap along behind you as you once again talk about your clubs or your chipping or your swing changes etc etc 

Ill take every post on its own merit 

When someone goes on about their recent club fitting as not being "wrong" yet looking to go for another fitting then I will analysis that for the contradiction I think it is.

You're right - it is your money to spend as you wish but when you announce it all on social media then expect people to comment on it


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## drawboy (Feb 14, 2014)

I do not know about you Homer but I know lads that are on their 3rd CF set of irons and their handicap hasn't moved. Now if CF is so great and that persons new iron set is so perfect just for them then surely it has to reduce a handicap by at least 3 shots if not what good does it really do?


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## Alex1975 (Feb 14, 2014)

Are the two shafts tips the same diameter? While when fitting Ping may have a generic bolt in and out adapter where the male end is the same, the female end may not be so the two shafts may fit in to the hosel on the retail castings.

Just a thought. 

Not it sure how you gained swing speed if the shafts are the same weight?


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## Hallsy (Feb 14, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I blame my pro. Had he not sprinkled some magic dust on the CFS Distance shaft and given it to me I'd have been mulling over the stock shaft in stiff or regular
		
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Why would Ping go to the trouble of fitting the screw/bolt to the distance shaft if its only for the karsten clubs. Ii presume then that the standard CFS shaft isnt available to the Karsten . Did you try 1/4" longer stock shaft to see how it compared to the Distance shaft?


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## ger147 (Feb 14, 2014)

According to Ping's website, both shafts are identical in every respect except that the distance shafts are longer, and everything else being equal, longer shafts hit the ball further.


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## Alex1975 (Feb 14, 2014)

Hallsy said:



			Why would Ping go to the trouble of fitting the screw/bolt to the distance shaft if its only for the karsten clubs. Ii presume then that the standard CFS shaft isnt available to the Karsten . Did you try 1/4" longer stock shaft to see how it compared to the Distance shaft?
		
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so they can offer other shafts or flexes in the Karsten head.....


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Feb 14, 2014)

ger147 said:



			According to Ping's website, both shafts are identical in every respect except that the distance shafts are longer, and everything else being equal, longer shafts hit the ball further.
		
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So....order the i25's with the stock shaft but 1/2 inch longer?  Can't see Ping having a problem with that.


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## Hallsy (Feb 14, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			so they can offer other shafts or flexes in the Karsten head.....
		
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My bad. I read it to believe that the Distance was the only shaft available for the Karsten range. :thup:


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## Alex1975 (Feb 14, 2014)

Hallsy said:



			My bad. I read it to believe that the Distance was the only shaft available for the Karsten range. :thup:
		
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Ah ok, I did not catch that, flex then. Clearly it may not be the case about the tip size, just a thought. The site does not specify.


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## bluewolf (Feb 14, 2014)

drawboy said:



			TBH I'm over the whole custom fitting malarkey I have been CF'ed for 1 set, they were Mizzy jpx's and I didn't hit them any better than any others I've had off the peg. I just think it is a gimmick. I understand flex has to be correct but after that until I get to low singles which I never will at my age then my swing isn't going to be consistent enough to bother with CF. My handicap tells me how good I am. I'm sorry to upset anyone but for my money anyone from 28-low singles doesn't need it. Get the right flex and practice,practice and practice again. No one can buy success off the shelf and certainly not from bashing a ball into a net or screen and looking at figures.
Do the nets tell you how good you are off a hanging side hill lie, uphill lie, bunker,deep rough, divots, under trees, over ponds, into wind and all the 1000's of other variables that we all meet on a typical round? No I do not think so, let me know the next time you have a perfect flat lie and no wind or hazards then see if you carry your 7 iron 151 yards to a pin tucked behind a bunker with a medal card in your hand. 
This is a general reply and not aimed at Homer in any way.
		
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Agreed... I've had 3 sets of clubs in the last 2 years. 1 was custom fitted, 1 was bought after hitting them at a range, and 1 was bought from eBay on a whim.. The ones that I'm currently using are the eBay set.. A rather surprisingly nice set of Orka Rs1/Rs3/Rs5 combo irons.. Bloody lovely they are and they go like the clappers..
Buy em, Hit em, love em.. It's only a game..


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## chrisd (Feb 14, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			It's only a game.  D
		
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...........and on that bombshell !


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## Foxholer (Feb 14, 2014)

therod said:



			They were wrong because they don't look right. You can't have the right clubs that look wrong, that means they aren't right 


My point is save yourself all this heartache, buy yourself the wrong clubs that look right, then you won't be stuck with the right/wrong clubs, instead you will have the wrong/right clubs :thup:
		
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 :rofl:
I was wrong!

That logic alright!

 :clap:



drive4show said:



			So....order the i25's with the stock shaft but 1/2 inch longer?  Can't see Ping having a problem with that.
		
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Check out Post 8! 




HomerJSimpson said:



			but a shallow and vein desire (in forum words)
		
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Isn't this caused by too much flying?


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## garyinderry (Feb 15, 2014)

drawboy said:



			No one can buy success off the shelf and certainly not from bashing a ball into a net or screen and looking at figures.
Do the nets tell you how good you are off a hanging side hill lie, uphill lie, bunker,deep rough, divots, under trees, over ponds, into wind and all the 1000's of other variables that we all meet on a typical round? No I do not think so, let me know the next time you have a perfect flat lie and no wind or hazards then see if you carry your 7 iron 151 yards to a pin tucked behind a bunker with a medal card in your hand. 
This is a general reply and not aimed at Homer in any way.
		
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nail on head! :thup:


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## Wildrover (Feb 15, 2014)

I can't see what the problem is here, like someone else said, just order the stock shaft at a longer length because they're the same shaft. Rocket science it ain't.


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## Smiffy (Feb 15, 2014)

hovis said:



			Who cares
		
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Corrected that for you.


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## Tiger (Feb 15, 2014)

I'm sorry I don't see the point of this thread  Based on how it reads PING have said they can't understand why there would be a difference as they are essentially the same shaft. They want to understand the numbers because they want you the customer to have the right product at the right price. You can't fully explain PINGs rationale as you haven't spoken to them. You left your pro discussing it with them so you don't know the final outcome. Why not wait until you have all the facts before you slag off a brand on a public forum?


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## tsped83 (Feb 15, 2014)

drawboy said:



			TBH I'm over the whole custom fitting malarkey I have been CF'ed for 1 set, they were Mizzy jpx's and I didn't hit them any better than any others I've had off the peg. I just think it is a gimmick. I understand flex has to be correct but after that until I get to low singles which I never will at my age then my swing isn't going to be consistent enough to bother with CF. My handicap tells me how good I am. I'm sorry to upset anyone but for my money anyone from 28-low singles doesn't need it. Get the right flex and practice,practice and practice again. No one can buy success off the shelf and certainly not from bashing a ball into a net or screen and looking at figures.
Do the nets tell you how good you are off a hanging side hill lie, uphill lie, bunker,deep rough, divots, under trees, over ponds, into wind and all the 1000's of other variables that we all meet on a typical round? No I do not think so, let me know the next time you have a perfect flat lie and no wind or hazards then see if you carry your 7 iron 151 yards to a pin tucked behind a bunker with a medal card in your hand. 
This is a general reply and not aimed at Homer in any way.
		
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This here is SPOT ON. Having been custom fit for irons I whole heartedly agree. Top man.


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## User20205 (Feb 15, 2014)

Tiger said:



			I'm sorry I don't see the point of this thread  Based on how it reads PING have said they can't understand why there would be a difference as they are essentially the same shaft. They want to understand the numbers because they want you the customer to have the right product at the right price. You can't fully explain PINGs rationale as you haven't spoken to them. You left your pro discussing it with them so you don't know the final outcome. Why not wait until you have all the facts before you slag off a brand on a public forum?
		
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Maybe the pros are still there as we speak, trying to solve homies shaft conundrum!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2014)

I bought a set of R9's from the shelf - had a mare with them 

6 months later - custome fit with Taylor Made for my TP's - they needed adjusted from the standard - since then my game has just shot through the roof

Was is the custom fit or the confidence it gave me ? No idea but either way it was 30 quid well spent


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## Dave B (Feb 15, 2014)

I demoed the G25's and thought they were a superb club and also the i20's, (also superb). The G25's were just so easy to hit I decided I'd buy a set however before committing I asked if I could take a demo iron out onto the course. It was the best decision I have ever made as it was a disaster. I don't know what was wrong but I'd have sworn it was a different club to that what I'd tried on the range.

While I was mulling my options I was offered a mint set of i15's at a decent price so I bought them. Ok not the latest range but a good looking iron with a reasonable amount of forgiveness to help me when my swing wasn't 100%, (100% of a crap swing is still a crap swing).  I bought them on the assumption that they would be similar to the i25's but with a better top line. Although it was a risk I'd mitigated the chance of a disaster with a good amount of reasoning, research and debate. The shape was right, the feel was right and I liked the look of them and the beauty was they also worked for me so it was a good choice.

Over the years I've had several sets of irons, all regular shafted from Nippon, to True Temper, KBS to Ping ALT's. The only one that stood out for me was the Nippon NS Pro in my R7's as it was a good combination that worked and although I liked the Nippons, they weren't a game changer and that is what I would say about the majority of the clubs I've owned.

The only single club that has made a distinct difference to my game is my putter. I'd be happy to change my irons, driver, woods or my hybrids however the one club that I wouldn't change is my putter.

Although some people have jumped on the bandwagon on this thread, Homer's original post is spot on. If a demo shaft has been given to a pro shop with a universal adaptor, then there is no reason why Ping cannot or should not provide that standard stock shaft in any iron head within their range.

Ping pride themselves on their reputation, ensuring that they supply the correct shaft, grip and head combination to suit the individual golfer. Personally If I was the manager at Gainsborough I would fit the shaft recommended as the best fit, by the pro working for an authorised Ping dealer. No questions, no debate if that is what the pro has recommended then that is what they should supply.


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## rickg (Feb 15, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			The ones that I'm currently using are the eBay set.. A rather surprisingly nice set of Orka Rs1/Rs3/Rs5 combo irons.. Bloody lovely they are and they go like the clappers..
		
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Like......:thup:


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## harpo_72 (Feb 15, 2014)

Just small question, will the extra length affect the lie?
The first CF I had was my zing2s, I came out as std off the shelf. So I bought clubs off the shelf as std. I then had. Mizuno custom fit and once again pretty std, but the shaft choice available needed to be narrowed down but they were project x5.5s... Pretty std. I then went through the Ping fitting for my i15s and ended up with red dot (unlike the black dot zings), the shafts were AWT stiff (similar to 5.5s). However as time has gone by I have noticed that the impact mark is more towards the toe than the mizunos.


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## Ethan (Feb 15, 2014)

I couldn't care one way or the other if Homer changes his clubs like others change their boxers. If he can afford it, its up to him.

There are two interesting questions here. One is the question of Ping not being willing to supply the shaft without proper fitting, and the other the question of how swing speed improved from 78 to 83 mph.

On the first, seems rather silly for Ping to jealously guard this. It is only a steel shaft after all, not something that is classified or made of special materials.

On the second, I don't think 1g weight difference would make such a difference, nor 1/4 inch alone, so I assume that either the shaft has a soft tip for extra kick, or Homer had warmed up a bit more by the time he picked it up.


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## BROOKIE (Feb 15, 2014)

I've read all the posts on the forum and all I have to say is tha whatever shafts he puts in those PING heads,in 6 months time they will be obsolete,he's looking down the wrong barrel if thinks PING are going to be his saviour,he talks the talk,but he don't walk the walk,
homer,just buy a set of mizuno's off the rack and only then will you find what looks and feel are all about


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## mcbroon (Feb 15, 2014)

Tiger said:



			I'm sorry I don't see the point of this thread 

Click to expand...

You could just have stopped there.


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## groundskeeperwilly (Feb 15, 2014)

Homer-don't you have a 'spare' set of TM Muscle cavity/Cavity back irons? Maybe a combo set with the G25 long irons and TM short irons would suit your eye better? Get the forgiveness of the G25's but the look of a players iron in the short clubs? Or look for a set of I15/I20 that just has 6-PW on E-Bay if you want one brand only?


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## El Bandito (Feb 15, 2014)

Hey Homer. May have missed it, but when do you expect to hear back from the Pro/Ping?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2014)

Tiger said:



			Why not wait until you have all the facts before you slag off a brand on a public forum?
		
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I've not slagged Ping of at all. I just questioned why they wouldn't provide a shaft that performed better purely based on the fact that it wasn't what the pro should have demo'd with the I25 but clearly works better. The change came in the middle of the session so I was fully warmed up with all the shafts I was using. If they have a reason for it then fair enough but they weren't giving my pro an explanation that satisfied him or me. I didn't speak to Ping as the Ping was dealing with them as the fitter which is pretty standard stuff and had gone through to their technical team which I wouldn't have access to as he had to give his customer ID and account number. 

I'm going back to the range to see him later and see what he says. As for slagging Ping off, no way. I love the G25 woods and hybrid and simply love the new I25 irons and really want to be using them. Just can't see their issue with supplying the shaft


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## Qwerty (Feb 15, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Homer

In the 'olde days' people used to go to the practice range with a selection of clubs and make a decision based on looks, confidence, feel and performance. Today people hit a load of balls into a screen and pick the club that gives the best 'numbers' regardless of the feel or confidence the club gives them. Confidence is a major part of golf, I couldn't live with a club that didn't inspire confidence or feel good through the ball regardless of the numbers it produces in a net. 

From reading your posts on here, confidence seems to be a pretty big part of your game. Forget the 'technically best' clubs and find one that makes you feel good and lets you hit decent shots. You'll feel a lot happier with them out on the course  :thup:
		
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Great post :thup:    I don't think there's any point reading the rest of the thread.


Homer, just a thought..   Is there any chance that you just happened to hit a few good shots whilst using this distance shaft and the "good numbers" were down to you just hitting the ball well, rather than giving the shaft all the credit.

If I'm buying new clubs I'll try them over a few days..  Id go back and try them again if I was you :thup:


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## DAVEYBOY (Feb 15, 2014)

Homer I know you have a tendency to abandon posts after 99% of the forum jump on your back but can you please update us on the outcome of this one :thup:

Why not go and have another bash with them over the weekend to see if any of the numbers change and whether or not one of the other shafts will suit... I'd be surprised if your swing is consistent enough to have the exact same outcome. Maybe change the order in which you try the different shafts.


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## titleistho (Feb 15, 2014)

good for you homerjsimpson not rising to all the negativity on here 

its a public access golf forum for anyone to talk about anything golf related- your showing more class than some of these 'knowlegable' individuals


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## titleistho (Feb 15, 2014)

drawboy said:



*TBH I'm over the whole custom fitting malarkey *I have been CF'ed for 1 set, they were Mizzy jpx's and I didn't hit them any better than any others I've had off the peg. I just think it is a gimmick. *I understand flex has to be correct *but after that until I get to low singles which I never will at my age then my swing isn't going to be consistent enough to bother with CF. My handicap tells me how good I am. I'm sorry to upset anyone but for my money anyone from 28-low singles doesn't need it. Get the right flex and practice,practice and practice again. No one can buy success off the shelf and certainly not from bashing a ball into a net or screen and looking at figures.
Do the nets tell you how good you are off a hanging side hill lie, uphill lie, bunker,deep rough, divots, under trees, over ponds, into wind and all the 1000's of other variables that we all meet on a typical round? No I do not think so, let me know the next time you have a perfect flat lie and no wind or hazards then see if you carry your 7 iron 151 yards to a pin tucked behind a bunker with a medal card in your hand. 
This is a general reply and not aimed at Homer in any way.
		
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goodpost and right with ya buddy, I've had fittings in the states, mainland Europe and wentworth, the last one probably the worst.

pick what ya like the look of and game them till the next set catches your eye


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2014)

Qwerty said:



			Homer, just a thought..   Is there any chance that you just happened to hit a few good shots whilst using this distance shaft and the "good numbers" were down to you just hitting the ball well, rather than giving the shaft all the credit.
		
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Good point but no. We even stopped and went back to the standard shaft and hit 10 with each, ignoring any that were heavy and or bad swings and took the best five from both. The numbers came out the same as when I'd hit them individually so the performance wasn't the issue. Once I go to the range later I'll get an update


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## Robobum (Feb 15, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Good point but no. We even stopped and went back to the standard shaft and hit 10 with each, ignoring any that were heavy and or bad swings and took the best five from both. The numbers came out the same as when I'd hit them individually so the performance wasn't the issue. Once I go to the range later I'll get an update
		
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Ok, now we know its a load of bull!!

Hit 5 good shots out of 10 swings!!!

C'mon, really?!?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2014)

Robobum said:



			Ok, now we know its a load of bull!!

Hit 5 good shots out of 10 swings!!!

C'mon, really?!?

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OOOOOO your so mean oo::ears::rofl:


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## User20205 (Feb 15, 2014)

titleistho said:



			good for you homerjsimpson not rising to all the negativity on here 

its a public access golf forum for anyone to talk about anything golf related- your showing more class than some of these 'knowlegable' individuals
		
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you need a history lesson pal

deja vu doesn't even cover it


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## Robobum (Feb 15, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			OOOOOO your so mean oo::ears::rofl:
		
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 get the shorter shaft and hit it harder. Much harder.


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## User20205 (Feb 15, 2014)

Robobum said:



 get the shorter shaft and hit it harder. Much harder.
		
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with maybe a thicker top line, something more forgiving from the ping range. Maybe the new Ping Karsten iron, I hear the shafts are pretty good:thup:


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## Qwerty (Feb 15, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Good point but no. We even stopped and went back to the standard shaft and hit 10 with each, ignoring any that were heavy and or bad swings and took the best five from both. The numbers came out the same as when I'd hit them individually so the performance wasn't the issue. Once I go to the range later I'll get an update
		
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If you really think this set up is the one for you then why not phone Ping yourself. Id be surprised if they didn't sort this for you, after all its only putting a shaft off the rack into a head, the same as building any other set.  

You sure your pro is telling you the full tale, Could it be a case of "Computer says No" on his part.  

Id speak to Ping yourself.  Their customer service sounds second to none. I'm sure they'd sort this.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2014)

Qwerty said:



			If you really think this set up is the one for you then why not phone Ping yourself. Id be surprised if they didn't sort this for you, after all its only putting a shaft off the rack into a head, the same as building any other set.  

You sure your pro is telling you the full tale, Could it be a case of "Computer says No" on his part.  

Id speak to Ping yourself.  Their customer service sounds second to none. I'm sure they'd sort this.
		
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I was there when he made the call so definitely not a case of him mucking me about. As the shaft seems so similar to the stock shaft, yet performed better, I'll wait and see what he and Ping technical guys say and then put it to Ping myself.


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## smange (Feb 15, 2014)

So your pro fiited you for a shaft he wasnt supposed to and Ping are the ones who are messing about?

Is your pro always this efficient?  If so maybe thats why your countless lessons seem to come to little fruition :mmm:


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## garyinderry (Feb 15, 2014)

5 good shots out of 10 off a range mat is good going.  if I get fitted it will need to be on grass.  if I get fitted from a range mat they may as well just fit me for a bit of netting on my right to catch all the sh*nks!


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## palindromicbob (Feb 15, 2014)

This entire thread reminds me of a previous exchange I had with Homer about putters nearly 2 years ago! This latest PING saga has don't little to change my mind. Apologies for the self quoting.



palindromicbob said:



			How better to make money and get purchases. Custom fit every aspect of your game. Not be long until they start a fitting process to help you choose the right glove, ball marker and tee. Don't get me wrong. I see the advantages of custom fitting but I also know many low handicapper that play of the shelf and always have done.  The one club I noticed they never change is the putter. They simply find something they like and stick with it.
		
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HomerJSimpson said:



			If that is the case why are the pros chopping and changing. Woods and Mickleson are two of the best clutch putters in recent years and yet both have had several different models in the bag over the last two years. They aren't alone.  C/F fitting for a putter can be a great aid if you have never had your stroke looked at to ensure you get the right tool for the job. Similarly, if you go to a good pro and they give you the right basics particularly address and alignment it can make a fundamental difference to a player. 

I really don't see the negativity towards C/F and a players desire to improve. Are you saying that getting a C/F set of clubs with the ideal set of shafts suited to your swing rather than randomly picking a set off the rail is wrong. Why should it be so to do it for a singular club (aka the putter)
		
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palindromicbob said:



			I don't have a negativity towards C/F and if it came across that way then apologies. Reading back I see how the start of my post may have presented that view. But I do like to look at things from both sides and weigh up the pro's and cons. Remember the pro's have the advantage of time, and a team working with them, it's not like they pay for the change so why not try something different.  Also how big a boost to sales of the latest gear do the big names cause for the companies. 

I just wanted to put across the alternative view that C/F isn't the magic secret behind becoming a good player and that many a good golfer has got there "off the shelf" tending to stick with what they *feel *is right rather than what a professional (and also salesman) has told them is right.  

Custom fitting can push you down a slippery and expensive slope where you lose all confidence in your clubs and game just because some guy with a machine hasn't told you they need to be 1/2" longer and 2* upright etc etc and not all custom fitting is correct.  If it were then we wouldn't see posts about how someone got fitted for stiff shaft drivers but found they hit a mates off the shelf regular shaft longer and more consistently. *I think that people should be acutely aware of the need to strike a balance and consider the fact that you need to consider what feels right and take time to choose. If something that feels right presents a choice that's against what a fitting said you "should" have don't let that put you off. *

The scariest thing I've seen though is a 12 year old talking the other day about how they are going to get a new set of custom fitted clubs. Something highly encoraged by what he has read in magazines and heard "experts" talk about. The shop is going to happily take his parents money and he is going to be chuffed for a while but how can the fitting be correct or appropriate for someone that will have grown out of his trousers in a few months time? The same way that a custom fit is not neccessarily the appropriate plan of action for someone who has only played a few games with a borrowed set of clubs and a swing that changes weekly based on what they are reading at the time. 

A pro could take my clubs (irons where fitted btw) and play well. I could take thiers and play as badly as I usually do. The fit wouldn't be the primary reason .
		
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## HawkeyeMS (Feb 15, 2014)

smange said:



			So your pro fiited you for a shaft he wasnt supposed to and Ping are the ones who are messing about?

Is your pro always this efficient?  If so maybe thats why your countless lessons seem to come to little fruition :mmm:
		
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Surely the point of custom fitting is to get the best spec? I would fully expect my pro to try all the options available and I would expect the manufacturer to supply the best shaft according to the numbers. Of course, once they see the numbers, Ping may give Homer the right shaft, if they don't I'd want to know why. I certainly wouldn't be blaming the pro for giving me the best option.


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## fundy (Feb 15, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Agreed... I've had 3 sets of clubs in the last 2 years. 1 was custom fitted, 1 was bought after hitting them at a range, and 1 was bought from eBay on a whim.. The ones that I'm currently using are the eBay set.. A rather surprisingly nice set of Orka Rs1/Rs3/Rs5 combo irons.. Bloody lovely they are and they go like the clappers..
Buy em, Hit em, love em.. It's only a game..

Click to expand...

You got lucky, very very very very lucky   (He says not jealous based on how much more he paid for his lol)


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2014)

Spoken to the pro. He had another chat with Ping who insist there in so difference between the stock CFS and the CFS distance so he e-mailed the numbers over and we'll have to wait until Monday for them to get back to him. He still doesn't understand what the issue is but we'll see what Ping say then. At least Ping have the data and so can see for themselves that the Distance clearly gives me better specs.


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## fundy (Feb 15, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Spoken to the pro. He had another chat with Ping who insist there in so difference between the stock CFS and the CFS distance so he e-mailed the numbers over and we'll have to wait until Monday for them to get back to him. He still doesn't understand what the issue is but we'll see what Ping say then. At least Ping have the data and so can see for themselves that the Distance clearly gives me better specs.
		
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could i recommend you go and hit both shafts again to double check the numbers are right


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## tsped83 (Feb 15, 2014)

It's the same shaft Homer, just longer. So would naturally lead to more distance.....


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## HawkeyeMS (Feb 15, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Spoken to the pro. He had another chat with Ping who insist there in so difference between the stock CFS and the CFS distance so he e-mailed the numbers over and we'll have to wait until Monday for them to get back to him. He still doesn't understand what the issue is but we'll see what Ping say then. At least Ping have the data and so can see for themselves that the Distance clearly gives me better specs.
		
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If there's no difference, I don't see the issue with giving you the distance : confused: It will be interesting to see what they say.


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## harpo_72 (Feb 15, 2014)

So its called "distance" but the only difference is 1/4" in length? Is there not a weight difference ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2014)

For the results to be that different there must be some difference in the shafts - length appears to be one , as does weight.


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## palindromicbob (Feb 15, 2014)

harpo_72 said:



			So its called "distance" but the only difference is 1/4" in length? Is there not a weight difference ?
		
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1g probably caused by the extra 1/4"


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## BTatHome (Feb 15, 2014)

Surley they said it plays longer when I the karsten head due to the hosel ... So the actual shaft isn't long, just the insertion into the shaft making the club longer.

..... or did I imagine that ?


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## Foxholer (Feb 15, 2014)

Could it actually be that the 2 shafts, while both within their respective specs, are actually not *exactly* the same spec. Have they actually been put on a CPS machine to find out where in their flex range they actually fit? Presumably, they have actually been physically weighed to identify the 1gm difference.

I suspect that the particular profile of that Distance shaft is merely a 'better fit' for Homer than the particular profile of that normal one. This is where the Ping style C/F process has a weakness imo - unless you send the selected 'best fit' shaft back and say 'all like that please', and that's not fool-proof either. Same applies to shafts in Drivers (and the head itself), which i why you should always buy the Driver you tested, rather than rely on a 'same as' really being the same.


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## palindromicbob (Feb 15, 2014)

BTatHome said:



			Surley they said it plays longer when I the karsten head due to the hosel ... So the actual shaft isn't long, just the insertion into the shaft making the club longer.

..... or did I imagine that ?
		
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Only way to find out is if homer compares both shafts fitted to see if there is any length different.


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## bladeplayer (Feb 15, 2014)

I think Ping are wrong here , 

they should inform the customer "technically" there should be no difference between the two shafts sir but if your pro reckons its giving you the best numbers & you are happier hitting the other shaft we will gladly fit them for you , thanks for your custom ...

win for pro , win for homer , a no comeback win for ping ...


The reason there are so many options for clubs/shafts etc is that most players are different if Ping or any manufacturer are only going to supply what they think is right for a person they never met , they should stop pros doing fitting and do all their own ..

just my thought


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## Smiffy (Feb 15, 2014)

titleistho said:



			good for you homerjsimpson not rising to all the negativity on here 

its a public access golf forum for anyone to talk about anything golf related- your showing more class than some of these 'knowlegable' individuals
		
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You are new here aren't you?


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## CheltenhamHacker (Feb 15, 2014)

Smiffy said:



			You are new here aren't you?
		
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I don't think he/she is....


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			I don't think he/she is....
		
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I share that view :thup:


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## bluewolf (Feb 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I share that view :thup:
		
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You're not alone..


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## CheltenhamHacker (Feb 15, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			You're not alone..

Click to expand...

Either you're agreeing with Phil, or watching him through a window!


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## bluewolf (Feb 15, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Either you're agreeing with Phil, or watching him through a window!
		
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Why not both? I don't think his better half knows that he wears her clothes when she's out...


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## bladeplayer (Feb 15, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Why not both? I don't think his better half knows that he wears her clothes when she's out...

Click to expand...

i wear the trousers when mine is out ... only chance i get ha


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2014)

palindromicbob said:



			1g probably caused by the extra 1/4"
		
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When both shafts were taken out of the heads and stood end on end on the ground they were exactly the same length and the stepping was like for like. The extra length apparently comes from the longer hosel on the Karsten model. Out of the shaft if both had the stickers taken off you couldn't tell them apart. I said to my pro as I hit the distance shaft, there felt something different, tangible but I couldn't put into words, compared to the stand CFS model. At the end of the day, I'm now more interested in finding out what this "something" was. Clearly 5mph and 5 yards is a lot on two shafts that I look identical out of the head. I think that is what Ping are struggling to answer, how two shafts they class as one and the same have variables. 

As I said in a previous thread. the CFS distance produced better numbers immediately when I tried it. We swapped between the two and eventually hit 10 with each and cherry picked the top 5 of each to give the best numbers and still the discrepancy. I am sure there is a logical explanation somewhere I am sure Ping will come good. They have a fantastic customer service reputation and I think it has given their technical boys something interesting to look at Monday morning.


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## fundy (Feb 15, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			When both shafts were taken out of the heads and stood end on end on the ground they were exactly the same length and the stepping was like for like. The extra length apparently comes from the longer hosel on the Karsten model. Out of the shaft if both had the stickers taken off you couldn't tell them apart. I said to my pro as I hit the distance shaft, there felt something different, tangible but I couldn't put into words, compared to the stand CFS model. At the end of the day, I'm now more interested in finding out what this "something" was. Clearly 5mph and 5 yards is a lot on two shafts that I look identical out of the head. I think that is what Ping are struggling to answer, how two shafts they class as one and the same have variables. 

As I said in a previous thread. the CFS distance produced better numbers immediately when I tried it. We swapped between the two and eventually hit 10 with each and cherry picked the top 5 of each to give the best numbers and still the discrepancy. I am sure there is a logical explanation somewhere I am sure Ping will come good. They have a fantastic customer service reputation and I think it has given their technical boys something interesting to look at Monday morning.
		
Click to expand...

If they are supposed to be identical shafts I expect its more likely given their quality control department some food for thought, supposed identical shafts shouldnt cause 5mph difference in swing speed meaning at least one of those shafts is way outside tolerances, be interesting to know which!


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## virtuocity (Feb 15, 2014)

I think Homer and his pro have stumbled across something Ping don't even know.  

I can see the launch of I25 Karsten Tour irons happening soon.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Feb 15, 2014)

virtuocity said:



			I think Homer and his pro have stumbled across something Ping don't even know.  

I can see the launch of I25 Karsten Tour *Distance* irons happening soon.
		
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Fixed that for you  :thup:

For what it's worth, I reckon fundy has hit the nail on the head. The clubfitter I use works with a guy on the Seniors tour who uses Ping clubs, he says their quality control is shocking. Every time this player gets a new set of clubs the clubfitter has to check and adjust them for him. Also have a pal who plays i20's and he has had no end of trouble with the plastic sticky bits on the back of the heads falling out. Had to take several of his irons back for repair.


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## palindromicbob (Feb 15, 2014)

I have found the answer to prevent all future fitting problems for all.  

http://www.1irongolf.com/


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## Foxholer (Feb 15, 2014)

Notwithstanding the p-take nature of the post....

How does that prevent fitting problems?

PS: I've been using  far more since Snelly's thread!


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## Lump (Feb 15, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Fixed that for you  :thup:

For what it's worth, I reckon fundy has hit the nail on the head. The clubfitter I use works with a guy on the Seniors tour who uses Ping clubs, he says their quality control is shocking. Every time this player gets a new set of clubs the clubfitter has to check and adjust them for him. Also have a pal who plays i20's and he has had no end of trouble with the plastic sticky bits on the back of the heads falling out. Had to take several of his irons back for repair.
		
Click to expand...

A lot of hear say.
I had my lofts and lie angles checked at Titleist while being fitted (S57's). The 3 clubs he did where all spot on.


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## Robobum (Feb 15, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Fixed that for you  :thup:

For what it's worth, I reckon fundy has hit the nail on the head. The clubfitter I use works with a guy on the Seniors tour who uses Ping clubs, he says their quality control is shocking. Every time this player gets a new set of clubs the clubfitter has to check and adjust them for him. Also have a pal who plays i20's and he has had no end of trouble with the plastic sticky bits on the back of the heads falling out. Had to take several of his irons back for repair.
		
Click to expand...

One of my reg partners had the sticky badges falling off his i15s.

They are weighted too aren't they??? So have to go back to Ping?? Or have I made that up??


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## harpo_72 (Feb 15, 2014)

Robobum said:



			One of my reg partners had the sticky badges falling off his i15s.

They are weighted too aren't they??? So have to go back to Ping?? Or have I made that up??
		
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Yup they damp the face, so yes they are very important ...


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 15, 2014)

Robobum said:



			One of my reg partners had the sticky badges falling off his i15s.

They are weighted too aren't they??? So have to go back to Ping?? Or have I made that up??
		
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Not sure about them been weighted,but i15 seems to be the worst for this happening.


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## pbrown7582 (Feb 15, 2014)

I do likevthe way HJS forgets his r11 irons when reciting his iron history  :mmm:


How about buying a set of karsten irons with the distance shafts and some i25 with standard shafts, get your pro to swap them over he gets shed loads of business 2 sets of clubs commision plus a shaft swap and you get your dream c/f set of irons


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2014)

pbrown7582 said:



			I do likevthe way HJS forgets his r11 irons when reciting his iron history  :mmm:
		
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Not forgotten them. Pre TM Tour Preferred and a very decent club. Can't see how that's relevant in a thread about Ping shafts except for another sly dig


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2014)

So you had R11's in 2011 ? 
TM's in 2012 ? = Which TM's BTW - the CB,MC or MB ?
G25's in 2013
And possibly I25's in 2014 ?

Blimey - thats some club changing.

Why the constant changing ?


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## garyinderry (Feb 15, 2014)

homer what is it about the top lines that is putting you off when chipping?     its the leading edge you should be focussing on.  is there a less rounded leading edge on the i25s compared to the g series?


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## stevie_r (Feb 15, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not forgotten them. Pre TM Tour Preferred and a very decent club. Can't see how that's relevant in a thread about Ping shafts except for another sly dig
		
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Homer, you have to expect a bit of gentle ribbing about it; whenever a newbie appears on the forum asking for advice about clubs you are adamant in your posts that they must spend money on lessons rather than worry about what clubs they should be playing.


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## J5MBF (Feb 15, 2014)

IMO, being a back ground reader rather then fore front poster, I think Homer loves the attention. Every posts he adds to usually has something about him/directly relating to him. I call bull on this whole thing having read all the pages, either that or he's completely unique. I think he loves I logging in and seeing 15-20 page posts on topics he's started. I also think, for a hobby, he takes it far too seriously and definitely wouldn't want to play with him as I reckon he'd take all enjoyment out of it!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2014)

J5MBF said:



			IMO, being a back ground reader rather then fore front poster, I think Homer loves the attention. Every posts he adds to usually has something about him/directly relating to him. I call bull on this whole thing having read all the pages, either that or he's completely unique. I think he loves I logging in and seeing 15-20 page posts on topics he's started. I also think, for a hobby, he takes it far too seriously and definitely wouldn't want to play with him as I reckon he'd take all enjoyment out of it!
		
Click to expand...



Think i need a big bag of popcorn for this 

1,000,000 posts here we come


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## SammmeBee (Feb 15, 2014)

J5MBF said:



			IMO, being a back ground reader rather then fore front poster, I think Homer loves the attention. Every posts he adds to usually has something about him/directly relating to him. I call bull on this whole thing having read all the pages, either that or he's completely unique. I think he loves I logging in and seeing 15-20 page posts on topics he's started. I also think, for a hobby, he takes it far too seriously and definitely wouldn't want to play with him as I reckon he'd take all enjoyment out of it!
		
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You should see what he tweets to people then!!


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So you had R11's in 2011 ? 
TM's in 2012 ? = Which TM's BTW - the CB,MC or MB ?
G25's in 2013
And possibly I25's in 2014 ?

Blimey - thats some club changing.

Why the constant changing ?
		
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Totally wrong. Not even going to dignify you and your sniping with the correct facts. Stop making assumptions unless you are in possession of the true facts.


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## stevie_r (Feb 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So you had R11's in 2011 ? 
TM's in 2012 ? = Which TM's BTW - the CB,MC or MB ?
G25's in 2013
And possibly I25's in 2014 ?

Blimey - thats some club changing.

Why the constant changing ?
		
Click to expand...

Always thought the R11 to be quite sexy for TM


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## Tommo21 (Feb 15, 2014)

Is there some forum rule on why and when you can get a new set of irons, I'm on a set per year, just changed from my MP53s and I never thought I would. You go change as much as you like Homer, your money, your game.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2014)

J5MBF said:



			IMO, being a back ground reader rather then fore front poster, I think Homer loves the attention. Every posts he adds to usually has something about him/directly relating to him. I call bull on this whole thing having read all the pages, either that or he's completely unique. I think he loves I logging in and seeing 15-20 page posts on topics he's started. I also think, for a hobby, he takes it far too seriously and definitely wouldn't want to play with him as I reckon he'd take all enjoyment out of it!
		
Click to expand...

Welcome. I think you'd need to ask those I played with at GM forum meets if I sucked all the enjoyment out of their day too. If you look at the threads, I rarely start many, preferring to add my own opinion as I see fit. Contrary to popular belief I actually love my golf and the journey towards single figures. I have absolute belief in my own ability that I'll get there. It may be this year, it may be next but I'll get there my own way.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Totally wrong. Not even going to dignify you and your sniping with the correct facts. Stop making assumptions unless you are in possession of the true facts.
		
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Sniping ? 

The question marks should have given you a clue - ie i was seeking clarification

The R11's came out in 2011 ? yes ?

So you had them before the TM TP's 

So did you have both sets in 2011 or wait a bit before getting the TP's ?

How long did you have the TP's before you went to the G25's ( which i assume was last year )

It was a genuine question with no sniping - hence why i was asking which TM's you have/had ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2014)

Tommo21 said:



			Is there some forum rule on why and when you can get a new set of irons, I'm on a set per year, just changed from my MP53s and I never thought I would. You go change as much as you like Homer, your money, your game.
		
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No forum rule at all - i was genuinely curious about the clubs he had and why he swapped etc.


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## GB72 (Feb 15, 2014)

Not sure who is going to make the millionth post but I can have a pretty good guess at what thread it will be on.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			Always thought the R11 to be quite sexy for TM
		
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I was looking at them when i got mine current set - but they just didnt feel right.

Good looking clubs though - same with the R9's


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## Tommo21 (Feb 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No forum rule at all - i was genuinely curious about the clubs he had and why he swapped etc.
		
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Just a generalisation. Seems to be some stigma attached to changing clubs regularly. I personally love trying new clubs, drivers putters. The problem with that is, when it comes to golf, I tend to want what I like.


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## stevie_r (Feb 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I was looking at them when i got mine current set - but they just didnt feel right.

Good looking clubs though - same with the R9's
		
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I dream of one day being good enough to play the sexiest club in the world, the MP-4, I might just buy the 7 iron and lick it when no one is looking.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Feb 15, 2014)

Lump said:



			A lot of hear say.
I had my lofts and lie angles checked at Titleist while being fitted (S57's). The 3 clubs he did where all spot on.
		
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It's not hearsay, the clubfitter told me directly himself. Why would he make it up? Anyway, all Pings apart from Ansers are cast so pretty unlikely the loft/lie will change but he was probably talking about shaft flex, length, pureing, grip thickness etc.


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## GB72 (Feb 15, 2014)

Tommo21 said:



			Just a generalisation. Seems to be some stigma attached to changing clubs regularly. I personally love trying new clubs, drivers putters. The problem with that is, when it comes to golf, I tend to want what I like.
		
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Have to agree with you. Love the whole process of trying and buying new clubs. Finances are all that keeps the bag stable.


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## Phil2511 (Feb 15, 2014)

Robobum said:



			One of my reg partners had the sticky badges falling off his i15s.

They are weighted too aren't they??? So have to go back to Ping?? Or have I made that up??
		
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I do not know about the i15s but it happened to 3 sets of i20s that i know of that my pro sold, a custom fit set had 2 fall off after 3 rounds.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2014)

Tommo21 said:



			Just a generalisation. Seems to be some stigma attached to changing clubs regularly. I personally love trying new clubs, drivers putters. The problem with that is, when it comes to golf, I tend to want what I like.
		
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I just use what works - always tempted by nice new shiney clubs but if they dont perform as well then i dont see the need.

Homer could just be looking for that set that will really click for him - hence why i was asking why the constant changing ( before the teddy throw)


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## Foxholer (Feb 16, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			homer what is it about the top lines that is putting you off when chipping?     its the leading edge you should be focussing on.  is there a less rounded leading edge on the i25s compared to the g series?
		
Click to expand...

I can totally relate to what Homer sees, though I believe I would resolve it slightly differently.

A (Ping nutter) mate's G20 PW and 7i looked horrendous to me, but nothing wrong with the strike - and they went over a club further than my 'Player CB' TM300s 

Instead of thinking how fugly the club was, I'd be thinking how it would be impossible to hit the ball anything but well!

That said, he got some I20s and now has a Combo set - G20 for 3, 4 I think (maybe 5). Oh, and has toned his distance down a bit - used to be he struggled with anything less than 120 as that was how far the LW went!


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## Smiffy (Feb 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I have absolute belief in my own ability that I'll get there. It may be this year, it may be next but I'll get there my own way.
		
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There you go, putting yourself under pressure again. Take the pressure off a little and extend the deadline by a few more years.


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## User20205 (Feb 16, 2014)

Smiffy said:



			There you go, putting yourself under pressure again. Take the pressure off a little and extend the deadline by a few more years.
		
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You forget, he's been there before Smiffy. Form is temporary, class is permanent!!


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 16, 2014)

J5MBF said:



			IMO, being a back ground reader rather then fore front poster, I think Homer loves the attention. Every posts he adds to usually has something about him/directly relating to him. I call bull on this whole thing having read all the pages, either that or he's completely unique. I think he loves I logging in and seeing 15-20 page posts on topics he's started. I also think, for a hobby, he takes it far too seriously and definitely wouldn't want to play with him as I reckon he'd take all enjoyment out of it!
		
Click to expand...

I think your opinion of Homer loving the attention is spot on. He was tweeting the Ping Tour guys,sky sports presenters..... Letting them know about the Big switch to Ping.Im no longer a follower.
 I bet Ping don't have this trouble when kitting out the rest of their pros.


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## drawboy (Feb 16, 2014)

Again I say to thee. "You cannot buy success in golf from the racks of AG fitted or otherwise" Whist most of us weekend warriors were skateboarding, smoking behind the bike sheds, playing off ground tigs and chasing girls the Tour stars some of us aspire to be were bashing balls on a practice ground 7,8,9 hours a day. Honing their golf game getting into county squads and then getting the very best coaching money can buy. Meanwhile us middle aged men find the game, hack around the course for 4 hours on a Sat/Sun morning then go to the clubhouse and have a pint before toddling off home until next week to hack around again all the while trying to find that special "Magic" putter,driver,set of irons that will make our at best average swing into the new Tiger or Rory. Oh come on! of course it won't. No matter which shaft the pro says gives you an extra ten yards it still will not stop you slicing it into the cabbage nor will it get anyone into single figures overnight
I played when I was in my 20's I used Persimmon woods (Look them up under 30's) and pure blades like butter knifes. I played off 9. Twenty years on I'm using titanium 460cc drivers, game improvement irons, balls that are supposed to go 400 yrds and a putter with so much MOI it looks like a bloody tank. 
I am playing off 11
Go figure. I could have the full tour van experience with custom made and fitted gear that got me 10 yrds further but I would still be me, a weekend hacker with delusions of one day being a tour pro.........Oh come on get a grip.


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## chris661 (Feb 16, 2014)

Just a gentle reminder to folks that personal attacks and replies that are nothing more than trolling are not tolerated. Consider this a warning.


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## Karl102 (Feb 16, 2014)

drawboy said:



			Again I say to thee. "You cannot buy success in golf from the racks of AG fitted or otherwise" Whist most of us weekend warriors were skateboarding, smoking behind the bike sheds, playing off ground tigs and chasing girls the Tour stars some of us aspire to be were bashing balls on a practice ground 7,8,9 hours a day. Honing their golf game getting into county squads and then getting the very best coaching money can buy. Meanwhile us middle aged men find the game, hack around the course for 4 hours on a Sat/Sun morning then go to the clubhouse and have a pint before toddling off home until next week to hack around again all the while trying to find that special "Magic" putter,driver,set of irons that will make our at best average swing into the new Tiger or Rory. Oh come on! of course it won't. No matter which shaft the pro says gives you an extra ten yards it still will not stop you slicing it into the cabbage nor will it get anyone into single figures overnight
I played when I was in my 20's I used Persimmon woods (Look them up under 30's) and pure blades like butter knifes. I played off 9. Twenty years on I'm using titanium 460cc drivers, game improvement irons, balls that are supposed to go 400 yrds and a putter with so much MOI it looks like a bloody tank. 
I am playing off 11
Go figure. I could have the full tour van experience with custom made and fitted gear that got me 10 yrds further but I would still be me, a weekend hacker with delusions of one day being a tour pro.........Oh come on get a grip.
		
Click to expand...

Some good points there..... Did anyone watch the "golf kids" finals on sky yesterday?!? Went from u9's to u18's. Some of those swings the u9's had looked technically brilliant!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 16, 2014)

Don't know if it has already been suggested but if there is no difference between the two shafts other than length why not specify the standard shaft 0.25" longer.

Would that not resolve it?


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## fenwayrich (Feb 16, 2014)

Wise words from drawboy at post 157. I played in my younger days with the old fashioned persimmon woods etc and tiny blades etc, then never hit a ball for over 20 years until returning to the game last summer. I am hacking round with a mish mash of borrowed clubs and my 40 year old Anser, and have just been allocated a 12 handicap. I am sure if I was playing with the old equipment I would be nearer to 20, so technology advance does make a difference, but sadly it is still a 57 year old arthritic hitting the thing.

Having said that, I am not really into equipment, and many people are. Each to their own.


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## duncan mackie (Feb 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Almost undoubtedly.
		
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nearly certain that sums this thread up best :thup:


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## dewsweeper (Feb 16, 2014)

palindromicbob said:



			I have found the answer to prevent all future fitting problems for all.  

http://www.1irongolf.com/

Click to expand...

Nothing new here.
Check out Tiger Shark irons circa 1985.
All the rage at my club with some of the older guys
Dewsweeper


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## Foxholer (Feb 16, 2014)

drawboy said:



			I played when I was in my 20's I used Persimmon woods (Look them up under 30's) and pure blades like butter knifes. I played off 9. Twenty years on I'm using titanium 460cc drivers, game improvement irons, balls that are supposed to go 400 yrds and a putter with so much MOI it looks like a bloody tank. 
I am playing off 11
Go figure. I could have the full tour van experience with custom made and fitted gear that got me 10 yrds further but I would still be me, a weekend hacker with delusions of one day being a tour pro.........Oh come on get a grip.
		
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Those were probably the most up-to-date clubs back then though. The fact that you have moved so far from the clubs you used back in your 20s doesn't actually help whatever your argument was either.

And courses have got 800 yards or so longer since those days too.

While I agree with much of the sentiment, it's absolutely not a reason not to take advantage of every benefit available - provided it's cost-justifiable.


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## drawboy (Feb 16, 2014)

I think the point I'm trying to make is that in my view custom fitting isn't the advantage that golfers are led to believe. It doesn't hurt but in the grand scheme of things it isn't that important. Some though not all, seem to think it is some kind of cure all for their game ultimately for many it isn't. I've been there when I bought my Mizuno's I thought having the correct length, grip size, shaft and lie angle would be an advantage. It wasn't and 6 months later like many of the op's irons they were back in the shop replaced by the off the shelf TM's I use now, no fitting involved and I do not hit them any different to the Mizzies.
There is and always has been one way to get a better golf game, sort out your problems with a good teaching pro, practice it and then you will see the improvements.


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## HawkeyeMS (Feb 16, 2014)

drawboy said:



			I think the point I'm trying to make is that in my view custom fitting isn't the advantage that golfers are led to believe. It doesn't hurt but in the grand scheme of things it isn't that important. Some though not all, seem to think it is some kind of cure all for their game ultimately for many it isn't. I've been there when I bought my Mizuno's I thought having the correct length, grip size, shaft and lie angle would be an advantage. It wasn't and 6 months later like many of the op's irons they were back in the shop replaced by the off the shelf TM's I use now, no fitting involved and I do not hit them any different to the Mizzies.
There is and always has been one way to get a better golf game, sort out your problems with a good teaching pro, practice it and then you will see the improvements.
		
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I agree, I would always get custom fit because I enjoy the process and it can't hurt, but if I was forced to use off the shelf I doubt it would make that much difference.


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## Foxholer (Feb 16, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I agree, I would always get custom fit because I enjoy the process and it can't hurt, but if I was forced to use off the shelf I doubt it would make that much difference.
		
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The only thing that I really get checked out/adjusted are lie and grip size. Everything else (and possibly even lie if they are all consistent) I adjust to - though maybe shouldn't.



drawboy said:



			I think the point I'm trying to make is that in my view custom fitting isn't the advantage that golfers are led to believe. It doesn't hurt but in the grand scheme of things it isn't that important. Some though not all, seem to think it is some kind of cure all for their game ultimately for many it isn't. I've been there when I bought my Mizuno's I thought having the correct length, grip size, shaft and lie angle would be an advantage. It wasn't and 6 months later like many of the op's irons they were back in the shop replaced by the off the shelf TM's I use now, no fitting involved and I do not hit them any different to the Mizzies.
		
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If you didn't hit the TMs any differently from the Mizzies, why did you buy them? Just fancy a change? After 6 months? 



drawboy said:



			There is and always has been one way to get a better golf game, sort out your problems with a good teaching pro, practice it and then you will see the improvements.
		
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Ever thought of following your own advice?


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## drawboy (Feb 16, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			The only thing that I really get checked out/adjusted are lie and grip size. Everything else (and possibly even lie if they are all consistent) I adjust to - though maybe shouldn't.



If you didn't hit the TMs any differently from the Mizzies, why did you buy them? Just fancy a change? After 6 months? 



Ever thought of following your own advice?

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No because I know my limitations, I do not have the time or desire to improve my game. I enjoy golf as a weekend game, I'm better than a lot who think they are good and worse than a lot that are good at the game. I enjoy golf for what it is at my age, a weekend knock with good company. I do not harbor thoughts of ever been any more than I am.


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## Foxholer (Feb 16, 2014)

drawboy said:



			No because I know my limitations, I do not have the time or desire to improve my game. I enjoy golf as a weekend game, I'm better than a lot who think they are good and worse than a lot that are good at the game. I enjoy golf for what it is at my age, a weekend knock with good company. I do not harbor thoughts of ever been any more than I am.
		
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Fair enough - for you.

But you didn't answer my other question.


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## drawboy (Feb 16, 2014)

Which question was that?


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## Tommo21 (Feb 16, 2014)

drawboy said:



			I think the point I'm trying to make is that in my view custom fitting isn't the advantage that golfers are led to believe. It doesn't hurt but in the grand scheme of things it isn't that important. Some though not all, seem to think it is some kind of cure all for their game ultimately for many it isn't. I've been there when I bought my Mizuno's I thought having the correct length, grip size, shaft and lie angle would be an advantage. It wasn't and 6 months later like many of the op's irons they were back in the shop replaced by the off the shelf TM's I use now, no fitting involved and I do not hit them any different to the Mizzies.
There is and always has been one way to get a better golf game, sort out your problems with a good teaching pro, practice it and then you will see the improvements.
		
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Much of that I agree with.....however, while some players could well pick up a set of irons where everything clicks, the same can/could happen when you get fitted. I have no doubt my personal game for the first 25/30 years was playing off 7 or 8 HC. For the last 10 years or so I'm playing off 5 and I'm now knocking on 62 years. I have absolutely no doubt that having the proper lie angle will help your game. It might not make you play better, but having it right is the start you need to get the best from your game.


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## Foxholer (Feb 16, 2014)

drawboy said:



			Which question was that?
		
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Foxholer said:



			If you didn't hit the TMs any differently from the Mizzies, why did you buy them? Just fancy a change? After 6 months? 

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Lazybones!


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## harpo_72 (Feb 17, 2014)

Tommo21 said:



			Much of that I agree with.....however, while some players could well pick up a set of irons where everything clicks, the same can/could happen when you get fitted. I have no doubt my personal game for the first 25/30 years was playing off 7 or 8 HC. For the last 10 years or so I'm playing off 5 and I'm now knocking on 62 years. I have absolutely no doubt that having the proper lie angle will help your game. It might not make you play better, but having it right is the start you need to get the best from your game.
		
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Well CF is suppose to reduce the luck in finding the set off the shelf, but I would agree that if you know what you like and your not just looking for the latest have to have clubs and you take your club buying seriously you will get something that works. Of cause it does depend on your body type, average or freak ( calm down!) . I also think there is really little point to CF bar a lie and length measurement for a certain level of handicap or experience player, you can't buy a swing or game, but you can practice and acquire one! 
It's also quite amusing reading about these players irons, even the pro's shy away from, but you mid teen handicapper thinks he can play. Also all this smashing it as hard as you can rubbish, you could not do that with the old stuff, an element of control was required !


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## dontfancythisputt (Feb 17, 2014)

I believe that the best pros average around to within 6-7 yards from the target from 150 yards out so rather than looking at 1 average yardage figure for each shaft you have to look at by how far all the others are missing.

If you are averaging to within 20 yards from the target from 150 yards out (this would be a very good amateur standard), then you have to ask yourself what difference will 5 yards obtained by a difference the shaft make?.

Granted you may be using a different club but youâ€™d still miss by more than 5 yards. Itâ€™s likely that either shaft would regularly be landing 5 yards long or 5 yards short so what significance does one average figure on a computer have?

IMO CF has a place in the handicap golfers world, getting driver spin down with then correct shaft flex, getting the correct launch angle right etc, but using it for this level of specification is just crazy..


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## duncan mackie (Feb 17, 2014)

dontfancythisputt said:



			I believe that the best pros average around to within 6-7 yards from the target from 150 yards out ....
		
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where do you get such a statistic?

I believe that given a consistent flat fairway on level ground with zero wind the top tour pros will land a club closer to a 1 yard tollerance distance wise over 150 (based on practice ground observations) but conditions are rarely constant on the course and targets are such that where you land it isn't the end of the equation!


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## Foxholer (Feb 17, 2014)

harpo_72 said:



			Also all this smashing it as hard as you can rubbish, you could not do that with the old stuff, an element of control was required !
		
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So what?!

If you can smash it effectively, then by all means do so! That's always been the case. It's just that the equipment wasn't so forgiving as it is now.



duncan mackie said:



			where do you get such a statistic?

I believe that given a consistent flat fairway on level ground with zero wind the top tour pros will land a club closer to a 1 yard tollerance distance wise over 150 (based on practice ground observations) but conditions are rarely constant on the course and targets are such that where you land it isn't the end of the equation!
		
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I think that's a bit tight - specially for a single swing! Certainly not what I've observed - even from a lot closer than 150!


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## HawkeyeMS (Feb 17, 2014)

harpo_72 said:



			Well CF is suppose to reduce the luck in finding the set off the shelf, but I would agree that if you know what you like and your not just looking for the latest have to have clubs and you take your club buying seriously you will get something that works. Of cause it does depend on your body type, average or freak ( calm down!) . I also think there is really little point to CF bar a lie and length measurement for a certain level of handicap or experience player, you can't buy a swing or game, but you can practice and acquire one! 
It's also quite amusing reading about these players irons, even the pro's shy away from, but you mid teen handicapper thinks he can play. *Also all this smashing it as hard as you can rubbish, you could not do that with the old stuff, an element of control was required !*

Click to expand...

Young Tom Morris would tell you differently, he by all accounts was very much a smash it as hard as you can kind of guy.


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## Foxholer (Feb 17, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Young Tom Morris would tell you differently, he by all accounts was very much a smash it as hard as you can kind of guy.
		
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But he only won tournaments in Scotland! :rofl:


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## HawkeyeMS (Feb 17, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			But he only won tournaments in Scotland! :rofl:
		
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The slacker


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## moogie (Feb 17, 2014)

@ Homer

Any Response yet from Pro / Fitter / Ping..........??


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## harpo_72 (Feb 17, 2014)

You can smash it but your playing out of your performance envelope... Big forgiving clubs promote this attitude hence the amateur has not improved significantly. Besides smashing is world long drive stuff which really is comparable to hot rod racing ( I.e it's only one minor part of an original sport )


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## dontfancythisputt (Feb 17, 2014)

duncan mackie said:



			where do you get such a statistic?

I believe that given a consistent flat fairway on level ground with zero wind the top tour pros will land a club closer to a 1 yard tollerance distance wise over 150 (based on practice ground observations) but conditions are rarely constant on the course and targets are such that where you land it isn't the end of the equation!
		
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just did a quick internet search for approach shot stats and the PGA tour has stats of this kind readily available. average distance to where the ball came to rest from the flag, from 150-175 yards out for 2013 was 22 feet - tiger woods was the leader with this.

125-150 yards out was 18 feet. All measured from the fairway during comp play.

I agree that these figures may be on the high side when compared with training ground conditions but i think it highlights my point that not many handicap golfers can see a benifit from CF when looking into this much detail.

Apologies if i have got these firgures wrong as it would be the first time.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 17, 2014)

moogie said:



			@ Homer

Any Response yet from Pro / Fitter / Ping..........??
		
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No yet, but he tends to have Monday as his day off so I'm not sure if he'll come back. I doubt he'll pick up any mails or messages until tomorrow but I will ask on the way past tonight. (joy of having the range five minutes from your door)


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## phildunphy (Feb 17, 2014)

i read most of the posts, can you call ping directly they are quite responsive in my experience, even just enquiry?


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## duncan mackie (Feb 17, 2014)

dontfancythisputt said:



			just did a quick internet search for approach shot stats and the PGA tour has stats of this kind readily available. average distance to where the ball came to rest from the flag, from 150-175 yards out for 2013 was 22 feet - tiger woods was the leader with this.

125-150 yards out was 18 feet. All measured from the fairway during comp play.

I agree that these figures may be on the high side when compared with training ground conditions but i think it highlights my point that not many handicap golfers can see a benifit from CF when looking into this much detail.

Apologies if i have got these firgures wrong as it would be the first time.
		
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no apology needed; but there's a big difference between on course practical comparison of where the ball ends up in both distance and direction v pure carry distance control.

as for CF per se, there's a huge amount of space between the player (of any standard) who decides he wishes to have the best tools for him , the best lessons and practice regime; all with a view to enabling him/her to do the best that they can at the sport - and someone who takes the view that it really doesn't matter what they use, let alone lessons or practice, because handicapping takes all that out the equation so it's all a waste of time (for anyone who's not aiming to make a living at the game or succeed as an elite amateur).

we can probably agree that anyone who's played for some years, and goes for a custom fitting with the expectation that they will quickly drops shots from their handicap, is probably not going to see that result - even more so if it's their 2nd CF'ing!  But, that shouldn't stop them; for some the confidence it provides will help, for others it's just having new clubs etc etc


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## dontfancythisputt (Feb 17, 2014)

duncan mackie said:



			we can probably agree that anyone who's played for some years, and goes for a custom fitting with the expectation that they will quickly drops shots from their handicap, is probably not going to see that result - even more so if it's their 2nd CF'ing!  But, that shouldn't stop them; for some the confidence it provides will help, for others it's just having new clubs etc etc
		
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I can agree fully with this. 

The confidence note is a great point as I know how much better my shots are with clubs I really get on with. - I can see how CFing could start the confidence cycle.

I know that a good number of people get enjoyment from the technical side of the game and as a whole a lot of the technical stuff written on here is of real Interest. I think my point was really, as you say, about peopleâ€™s expectations of CFing. I think a golfer need to know what they are realistically capable of doing to see the biggest benefits of perfectly fitted equipment.

I myself donâ€™t really have the time for the really detailed stuff as there just isnâ€™t space between my ears for that as well as the 100,000swing thoughts!

That said, a recent CF on a driver was well worth the while as it greatly helped get my ball flight down under the wind, something I have always previously struggled with.


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## chellie (Feb 18, 2014)

Any update?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 18, 2014)

chellie said:



			Any update?
		
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Pro off until tomorrow (son badly poorly) and so will give him time to get in and catch up and chase from there. I'm seeing him for a lesson Friday so will be giving him a hard time if I haven't heard by then. Had a hit with the distance shaft again last night. Still loving it


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## malek988 (Feb 18, 2014)

therod said:



			Don't believe the stats they lie..buy for love not practicality.

What about a set of mizuno mp64's they look pretty and oooooh so buttery soft

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was fitted for those as pat of the mizzie reccomendations, but went with the jpx's as consistancy was better, still love and have the jpx irons, wont be changing them in a hurry



palindromicbob said:



			All the R&D that Ping have done to create the I25 and offer a comprehensive range of fitting options and you and your pro have managed to ruin it. Naughty Homer. 

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bob was was so funny im sigging that!! really made me chuckle!


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## Captainron (Feb 18, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			I dream of one day being good enough to play the sexiest club in the world, the MP-4, I might just buy the 7 iron and lick it when no one is looking.
		
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Nice clubs aren't they? They deserve a good lick every now and again.


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## malek988 (Feb 19, 2014)

Captainron said:



			Nice clubs aren't they? They deserve a good lick every now and again.
		
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I once was fortunate to have a blast at these pure golf porn.  If I ever owned a set id not want to use them for fear of getting them dirty


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## Junior (Feb 19, 2014)

Hope you get what you want on Friday HJS. Im sure (unless there is a technical reason in the manufacturing) Ping will accomodate you. After all its in there interest and your pro's interest to make a sale !


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## Region3 (Feb 19, 2014)

I'm surprised no-one is slightly disturbed at the fact that Ping add a new shaft to their range that is exactly the same as one they already do.

If another well known major brand brought out a new product that was exactly the same as an existing product they would get slated to high heaven for trying to rip us off.

Or am I missing something?


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## Region3 (Feb 19, 2014)

And fwiw, if Ping say they are the same shaft then I'd bet a pound to a penny that it's a small difference in shaft frequency giving the better numbers. I'd guess there's no way round that ordering through a pro, unless you go to somewhere like Precision Golf and get them to properly match all the shafts in the set.


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## duncan mackie (Feb 19, 2014)

Region3 said:



			Or am I missing something? 

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I don't think so; not in either post...


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## bluewolf (Feb 19, 2014)

@Homer, sorry if I've missed it, but have you tried more than 1 iron with the "new" shaft, or just 1 specific iron? At least this would rule out the possibility that it's 1 specific shaft that is giving you improved results..... Unless of course, the placebo effect comes in to play.......


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 19, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			@Homer, sorry if I've missed it, but have you tried more than 1 iron with the "new" shaft, or just 1 specific iron? At least this would rule out the possibility that it's 1 specific shaft that is giving you improved results..... Unless of course, the placebo effect comes in to play.......
		
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Ping are sending the pro a new stock CFS shaft as they think the one he has may be "knackered" They only have a demo 7 iron head but I have a lesson booked for Friday night so the plan is to hit the new stock vs the CFS distance and see if there is still the 5mph and 5 yard variation.


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## the smiling assassin (Feb 19, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			@Homer, sorry if I've missed it, but have you tried more than 1 iron with the "new" shaft, or just 1 specific iron?
		
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of course he has, the main reason for the change is to solve aesthetic pitching and chipping troubles so he'll definitely have had a few of the higher lofted clubs out for a practice at the very least. otherwise how would he know that new clubs will be 'the answer'?


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## garyinderry (Feb 19, 2014)

I don't see what the problem is.  granted selling a "new shaft" which is exactly the same, in their words is pretty shifty! 


just buy the clubs homie. you don't need a extra 5 yards on each club.  you need to know EXACTLY how far YOU hit them.  I know you said dispersion was tighter but that could just be down to hitting a good ball.  if they club is set at the right lie angle then its you that is missing the target, the shaft isn't getting you that much closer in all honesty.


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## dufferman (Feb 19, 2014)

Not to jump on the bandwagon, but can a 11 handicap player seriously benefit from a slightly higher swing speed or a few yards extra distance? Especially since the original issue you've had with the clubs is with chipping!? Sounds like you've found a problem for the sake of having a problem...


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 19, 2014)

dufferman said:



			Not to jump on the bandwagon, but can a 11 handicap player seriously benefit from a slightly higher swing speed or a few yards extra distance? Especially since the original issue you've had with the clubs is with chipping!? Sounds like you've found a problem for the sake of having a problem...
		
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Always had a problem chipping. Even going back to my TM TP's it's russian roulette. That said having worked hard on the linear method I am more confident when I step forth on the course this wekend things will be moving the right way. The issue initially stemmed from how one shaft (CFS Distance) can produce 5mph and 5 yards more than the stock CFS when Ping say apart from 1g in weight they are the same shaft. Given my yardages are amongst the shortest on the forum any distance has to be looked at


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## dufferman (Feb 19, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Given my yardages are amongst the shortest on the forum any distance has to be looked at
		
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Bubba Watson is a short hitter compared to the forum averages 

Do you not chip with wedges? I'm much more comfortable with my 56deg Cleveland 588 wedge in hand when chipping than a pitching / sand wedge?


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## HawkeyeMS (Feb 19, 2014)

dufferman said:



			Not to jump on the bandwagon, but can a 11 handicap player seriously benefit from a slightly higher swing speed or a few yards extra distance? Especially since the original issue you've had with the clubs is with chipping!? Sounds like you've found a problem for the sake of having a problem...
		
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Everyone can benefit from more distance if it doesn't result in lack of control. Homer didn't look for this problem, a carrot was dangled in front of him and you can't blame him for wanting to eat it. The point of CF for me is that you go away knowing you have the best tools for the job, if Homer can't get this shaft he will always have doubt in the back of his head - and Homer doesn't need any more complications


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## woody69 (Feb 19, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Ping are sending the pro a new stock CFS shaft as they think the one he has may be "knackered" They only have a demo 7 iron head but I have a lesson booked for Friday night so the plan is to hit the new stock vs the CFS distance and see if there is still the 5mph and 5 yard variation.
		
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I would recommend your pro doesn't tell you which is which and you don't try to find out so you can have a blind test and see if there really is a difference.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 19, 2014)

woody69 said:



			I would recommend your pro doesn't tell you which is which and you don't try to find out so you can have a blind test and see if there really is a difference.
		
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Way ahead of you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Foxholer (Feb 19, 2014)

Region3 said:



			And fwiw, if Ping say they are the same shaft then I'd bet a pound to a penny that it's a small difference in shaft frequency giving the better numbers. I'd guess there's no way round that ordering through a pro, unless you go to somewhere like Precision Golf and get them to properly match all the shafts in the set.
		
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From Post 111



Foxholer said:



			Could it actually be that the 2 shafts, while both within their respective specs, are actually not *exactly* the same spec. Have they actually been put on a CPS machine to find out where in their flex range they actually fit? Presumably, they have actually been physically weighed to identify the 1gm difference.

I suspect that the particular profile of that Distance shaft is merely a 'better fit' for Homer than the particular profile of that normal one. This is where the Ping style C/F process has a weakness imo - unless you send the selected 'best fit' shaft back and say 'all like that please', and that's not fool-proof either. Same applies to shafts in Drivers (and the head itself), which i why you should always buy the Driver you tested, rather than rely on a 'same as' really being the same.
		
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The issue Homer has (well, as I see it) now is whether subsequently trusts Pings replacement.

I would have wanted 2 replacements - 1 for the standard I25 shaft and 1 for the Distance one. That way the real best result can be found and ordered - even if it's a Distance shaft into a I25 head. As we've posted, that's the benefit of 'proper' Custom Fit. Ping almost certainly wouldn't CPM shafts to get a 'best match', merely grabbing a set as supplied. That's why 'proper' Custom Fitters talk about shaft specs from OEMs being 'all over the place' even after 'custom fit'.

Oh and I believe it's essential Homer 'solves' the query! Otherwise it will fester and he'll always have that bit of doubt about the clubs! I have an anomoly with the swing weights in my set - that were built by 2 different people. The guy that did most of them stated that the swing weights of the 2 'prototypes' were significantly different to standard - which is what he'd built the rest as. I occasionally wish he hadn't told me!


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## palindromicbob (Feb 19, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Way ahead of you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
		
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Don't tell us you've poked out your eyes homer! If that's the case you can stick with the G25's because now you don't need to look down on them 

This is interesting though. My worry now would be what caused the the "knacker" CFS shaft? Can't be more than a few weeks of use.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 24, 2014)

Went back on Friday. The pro had got a new CFS standard delivered. We did a blind test and I had no idea whether I was hitting the new CFS or the CFS Distance. First 10 balls came out with a swing speed of 79mph and an average carry of 148. Second 10 were 80 mph and 149 yards. Turns out the first one was the new CFS and the second was the Distance. The new shaft felt more alive. I didn't realise shafts could go off. I am right on the cusp between regular and stiff. Tried the CFS in a stiff but hated it. The pro has suggested we go with the stock CFS but get it hard stepped. He's going to arrange for me to hit a hard stepped version as I had never heard of hard stepping and I'm a little dubious.

It seems the anomaly was simply down to a shaft that wasn't working properly. Interested to get a hard stepped shaft now and see how it feels compared to the CFS stock shaft which definitely had a more responsive feel even on off centre hits.


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## CMAC (Feb 24, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Went back on Friday. The pro had got a new CFS standard delivered. We did a blind test and I had no idea whether I was hitting the new CFS or the CFS Distance. First 10 balls came out with a swing speed of 79mph and an average carry of 148. Second 10 were 80 mph and 149 yards. Turns out the first one was the new CFS and the second was the Distance. The new shaft felt more alive. *I didn't realise shafts could go off*. I am right on the cusp between regular and stiff. Tried the CFS in a stiff but hated it. The pro has suggested we go with the stock CFS but get it hard stepped. He's going to arrange for me to hit a hard stepped version as I had never heard of hard stepping and I'm a little dubious.

It seems the anomaly was simply down to a shaft that wasn't working properly. Interested to get a hard stepped shaft now and see how it feels compared to the CFS stock shaft which definitely had a more responsive feel even on off centre hits.
		
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I remember a Mizzie fitter saying the same thing, then reading from experts that its an old wives tale.


So are the cfs and cfs distance the exact same? seems a very small difference that its not worth bothering about


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## harpo_72 (Feb 24, 2014)

I did not think steel shafts went off, just poor quality control.
But you got a result


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 24, 2014)

Think we should have had a sweepstake for the day that they clubs were purchased - all proceeds to H4H


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 24, 2014)

harpo_72 said:



			I did not think steel shafts went off, just poor quality control.
But you got a result 

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At least the two shafts behaved more as Ping expected which was a result and the Distance plays 1/4 longer in the Karsten hence why they have named it differently. Not sure about this hard step. Never heard of it although interested to try a hard stepped shaft and feeling it.


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## Foxholer (Feb 24, 2014)

Hard-stepping - putting the 9i shaft in the 8i - prior to trimming for length -, 8i shaft in the 7 etc. stiffens the flex about 0.3, so a little stiffer. Lengths are obviously adjusted to be correct for the 'dot'. A new PW (or lowest head) shaft is needed and the 3i (or whatever) is spare.

Soft-stepping works the other way, softening a 'too stiff' set. I soft-stepped an already soft-stepped set of Rifle 6.5s and they play perfectly for me - at 5.9. I didn't bother acquiring a 3i shaft, nor adjusting the length - preferring  +0.5 to make me stop hunching!

Looks like you've found the 'best fit'!  R+ Flex!


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 24, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Hard-stepping - putting the 9i shaft in the 8i, 8i shaft in the 7 etc. stiffens the flex about 0.3, so a little stiffer. Lengths are obviously adjusted to be correct for the 'dot'. A new PW (or lowest head) shaft is needed and the 3i (or whatever) is spare.

Soft-stepping works the other way, softening a 'too stiff' set. I soft-stepped an already soft-stepped set of Rifle 6.5s and they play perfectly for me - at 5.9. I didn't bother acquiring a 3i shaft, nor adjusting the length - preferring  +0.5 to make me stop hunching!

Looks like you've found the 'best fit'!
		
Click to expand...

Cheers for this. Is this something Ping do or will my pro have to order the shafts and put them together. No idea how it works!


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## Foxholer (Feb 24, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Cheers for this. Is this something Ping do or will my pro have to order the shafts and put them together. No idea how it works!
		
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It would have to be Ping - as the hard-stepping is done before trimming for length (I edited my orig post) and Grip being put on.

Soft-stepping can actually be done either end, but Ping would (should) do that too.


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## User20205 (Feb 24, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			At least the two shafts behaved more as Ping expected which was a result and the Distance plays 1/4 longer in the Karsten hence why they have named it differently. Not sure about this hard step. Never heard of it although interested to try a hard stepped shaft and feeling it.
		
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HomerJSimpson said:



			Cheers for this. Is this something Ping do or will my pro have to order the shafts and put them together. No idea how it works!
		
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I'm slightly confused homer, you seem fairly knowledgeable about hard stepping on twitter and on your blog

_For the uninitiated, and in simple terms, this is a way of cutting the shafts. In essence, a six iron shaft will play as a five iron and so on through the bag. It isn't a stiff flex, which I didn't get on with at all, but is just a way of making the regular a little more robust. It should match my swing speed perfectly._
Written yesterday??


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## User20205 (Feb 24, 2014)

Have you actually ordered the clubs??


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## richart (Feb 24, 2014)

This thread has completely lost me. I can understand Pros's wanting the exact right shaft, and being able to tell the difference, but as an 11 handicapper I can only just tell the difference between stiff and regular. I do know that my swing is getting slower, and on the basis of keeping my irons for more than six months, I would go for regular over stiff when on the borderline.

I hope my ignorance is not ruining my enjoyment of the game.:mmm:


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 24, 2014)

therod said:



			I'm slightly confused homer, you seem fairly knowledgeable about hard stepping on twitter and on your blog

_For the uninitiated, and in simple terms, this is a way of cutting the shafts. In essence, a six iron shaft will play as a five iron and so on through the bag. It isn't a stiff flex, which I didn't get on with at all, but is just a way of making the regular a little more robust. It should match my swing speed perfectly._
Written yesterday??
		
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Unashamedly lifted (with permission) from another site. Never having experienced hitting a ball with it I was interested in learning more especially from those that have. Can you really feel a difference. I assume it isn't the same as the stiff (or no point in doing it I guess). Again, I have no idea if Ping just put a 5 iron shaft in a 6 iron etc or if its' something the pro has to make up


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## ger147 (Feb 24, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Unashamedly lifted (with permission) from another site. Never having experienced hitting a ball with it I was interested in learning more especially from those that have. Can you really feel a difference. I assume it isn't the same as the stiff (or no point in doing it I guess). Again, I have no idea if Ping just put a 5 iron shaft in a 6 iron etc or if its' something the pro has to make up
		
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Ping will do it.


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## User20205 (Feb 24, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Unashamedly lifted (with permission) from another site. Never having experienced hitting a ball with it I was interested in learning more especially from those that have. Can you really feel a difference. I assume it isn't the same as the stiff (or no point in doing it I guess). Again, I have no idea if Ping just put a 5 iron shaft in a 6 iron etc or if its' something the pro has to make up
		
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Fair enough, but if you've had to order them, 'hard stepped', isn't that a risk??

And doesn't that defeat the purpose of custom fitting??


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## Foxholer (Feb 24, 2014)

And don't worry about the process (which you have backwards btw).

Just consider Flex as R+ or S- or 5.3 rather than 5.0 (a guess on numbers).



therod said:



			Fair enough, but if you've had to order them, 'hard stepped', isn't that a risk??

And doesn't that defeat the purpose of custom fitting??
		
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Why a risk? There's a hard-stepped shaft heading to be tested.

And this is actually what 'custom fitting' is about! Albeit a very long slow one. Had it been done at Gainsborough, it would have been much simpler, just like any Fitting Studio.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 24, 2014)

therod said:



			Fair enough, but if you've had to order them, 'hard stepped', isn't that a risk??

And doesn't that defeat the purpose of custom fitting??
		
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From my first post tonight....The pro has suggested we go with the stock CFS but get it hard stepped. He's going to arrange for me to hit a hard stepped version as I had never heard of hard stepping and I'm a little dubious.

No risk as I simply won't part with the cash if I don't get on with it and would rather go with the standard shaft in regular. He's away until Saturday so won't get to try it until then


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 24, 2014)

richart said:



			This thread has completely lost me. I can understand Pros's wanting the exact right shaft, and being able to tell the difference, but as an 11 handicapper I can only just tell the difference between stiff and regular. I do know that my swing is getting slower, and on the basis of keeping my irons for more than six months, I would go for regular over stiff when on the borderline.

I hope my ignorance is not ruining my enjoyment of the game.:mmm:
		
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Very good post

Never seen a 12 handicapper have so many club fittings yet still not buy them - even pros don't act like this. !

At our level it's amusing to read


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## Smiffy (Feb 25, 2014)

richart said:



			This thread has completely lost me. I can understand Pros's wanting the exact right shaft, and being able to tell the difference, but as an 11 handicapper I can only just tell the difference between stiff and regular.
		
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And that is your problem Rich. Get to know the difference and you will be a single figure golfer before you know it.
And your Pro will be holidaying in the Caribbean twice a year.


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## Slab (Feb 25, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Went back on Friday. The pro had got a new CFS standard delivered. We did a blind test and I had no idea whether I was hitting the new CFS or the CFS Distance.* First 10 balls came out with a swing speed of 79mph and an average carry of 148. Second 10 were 80 mph and 149 yards.* Turns out the first one was the new CFS and the second was the Distance. The new shaft felt more alive. I didn't realise shafts could go off. I am right on the cusp between regular and stiff. Tried the CFS in a stiff but hated it. The pro has suggested we go with the stock CFS but get it hard stepped. He's going to arrange for me to hit a hard stepped version as I had never heard of hard stepping and I'm a little dubious.

It seems the anomaly was simply down to a shaft that wasn't working properly. Interested to get a hard stepped shaft now and see how it feels compared to the CFS stock shaft which definitely had a more responsive feel even on off centre hits.
		
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What happened to the 83pmh and 151 yards from your opening post or could it be that there are twenty other things that'll affect your speed/distance far more than the minor differences in these shafts, i.e whether you've eaten or not, what the temperature is, what your temp is, how old your glove is, are your 'Y' fronts a little tighter, even your mood & state of mind 

Sorry I realise that's getting flippant now but when you are talking about these differences its not even a variable for this game and you must just buy whatever you like the look/feel of best... and then stop trying other stuff for a wee while

Your commitment is admirable but somehow I admire your pro's commitment more


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Feb 25, 2014)

Smiffy said:



			And that is your problem Rich. Get to know the difference and you will be a single figure golfer before you know it.
And your Pro will be holidaying in the Caribbean twice a year.
		
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Yeah.....I wondered why Homer 's pro seemed to be away so often......


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## chrisd (Feb 25, 2014)

richart said:



			I can only just tell the difference between stiff and regular.
		
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You wait until you get to my age and it barely seems to matter!


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## Smiffy (Feb 25, 2014)

There was me, thinking that every time I played crap it was my fault. If only I'd know it was the shaft that wasn't working properly.
The things you learn!!


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## chrisd (Feb 25, 2014)

Smiffy said:



			There was me, thinking that every time I played crap it was my fault. If only I'd know it was the shaft that wasn't working properly.
The things you learn!!
		
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I'd even blame the grip ahead of blaming myself Smiffy!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 25, 2014)

chrisd said:



			You wait until you get to my age and it barely seems to matter! 

Click to expand...


:rofl:

Post of the week !!!


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## HawkeyeMS (Feb 25, 2014)

Smiffy said:



			There was me, thinking that every time I played crap it was my fault. If only I'd know it was the shaft that wasn't working properly.
The things you learn!!
		
Click to expand...

According to a pro I saw on Sky, if it's long or short it's the caddie's fault, if it's left or right it's the coach's fault. Since I don't have either, I have to assume it's my fault (unless I'm playing a pairs match with Homer, then it is ALWAYS his fault )


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## Scrindle (Feb 25, 2014)

I hope you get what you're after in the end Homer, if only to quell any niggling doubts that might reside at the back of your mind without 'the perfect shaft'.

Can you IMAGINE if it was all a huge practical joke and your pro had actually been giving you the exact same club/shaft each time.  Would be hilarious.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 25, 2014)

Suppose it would be asking too much for the custom fit to have taken place whilst the Forum was off line.


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## CMAC (Feb 25, 2014)

Slab said:



			What happened to the 83pmh and 151 yards from your opening post or could it be that there are twenty other things that'll affect your speed/distance far more than the minor differences in these shafts, i.e whether you've eaten or not, what the temperature is, what your temp is, how old your glove is, are your 'Y' fronts a little tighter, even your mood & state of mind 

Sorry I realise that's getting flippant now but when you are talking about these differences its not even a variable for this game and you must just buy whatever you like the look/feel of best... and then stop trying other stuff for a wee while

*Your commitment is admirable but somehow I admire your pro's commitment more* 

Click to expand...

he gets paid


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## richy (Feb 25, 2014)

What if there's a better shaft out there than the CFS?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 25, 2014)

The clubs have been ordered though - the saga is coming to an end !


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## Foxholer (Feb 25, 2014)

Slab said:



			What happened to the 83pmh and 151 yards from your opening post or could it be that there are twenty other things that'll affect your speed/distance far more than the minor differences in these shafts, i.e whether you've eaten or not, what the temperature is, what your temp is, how old your glove is, are your 'Y' fronts a little tighter, even your mood & state of mind 

Sorry I realise that's getting flippant now but when you are talking about these differences its not even a variable for this game and you must just buy whatever you like the look/feel of best... and then stop trying other stuff for a wee while

Your commitment is admirable but somehow I admire your pro's commitment more 

Click to expand...

Flippant it may be, but also pretty valid.

Custom Fit can only provide recommendation from the results on the day.

However, Homer is surprisingly consistent (at least in averages) and the comparisons that are being made are with 'today's swing' whatever that may be. So comparing shafts in a session is fine, but comparing today's best shaft with the results from a previous session is a bit iffy. Comparing 'bests' from separate sessions side by side is valid though! So the next session should use the stock Reg CFS against the hard-stepped one. 

Can't wait to read the next exciting episode!


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 25, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The clubs have been ordered though - the saga is coming to an end !
		
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Wrong, as you usually are but then you never let the facts get in the way of a smart arse comment. I was going to get the guy to order Monday but that's on hold until I hit a hard stepped demo.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 25, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Wrong, as you usually are but then you never let the facts get in the way of a smart arse comment. I was going to get the guy to order Monday but that's on hold until I hit a hard stepped demo.
		
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*The deal has been done and the clubs are on order. I25 heads with a CFS standard shaft, hard stepped in a green dot with a standard size grip. I can't wait to get my hands on them.*


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## tsped83 (Feb 25, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



*The deal has been done and the clubs are on order. I25 heads with a CFS standard shaft, hard stepped in a green dot with a standard size grip. I can't wait to get my hands on them.*



Click to expand...

Er, yeah, I'd read that you'd ordered them too Homer?


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## macca64 (Feb 25, 2014)

Blimey, I thought this was about Ping shafts, not Homer bashing, all seems a bit harsh !


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## richart (Feb 25, 2014)

tsped83 said:



			Er, yeah, I'd read that you'd ordered them too Homer?
		
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 Me too. Not really but I smell controversy.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 25, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



*The deal has been done and the clubs are on order. I25 heads with a CFS standard shaft, hard stepped in a green dot with a standard size grip. I can't wait to get my hands on them.*



Click to expand...

Are you saying that somewhere else Homer has said the above?


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## Captainron (Feb 25, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			Are you saying that somewhere else Homer has said the above?
		
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On his blog.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 25, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			Are you saying that somewhere else Homer has said the above?
		
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That's exactly what he has said elsewhere :thup:


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## Captainron (Feb 25, 2014)

Homer. You need to change your blog if they've not been ordered as yet and you should retract your statement to Liverpoolphil as his statement was based on something you wrote.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 25, 2014)

macca64 said:



			Blimey, I thought this was about Ping shafts, not Homer bashing, all seems a bit harsh !
		
Click to expand...


Lets hear both sides of the story first


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## ger147 (Feb 25, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Wrong, as you usually are but then you never let the facts get in the way of a smart arse comment. I was going to get the guy to order Monday but that's on hold until I hit a hard stepped demo.
		
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So is your blog wrong then?


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## richart (Feb 25, 2014)

Someone has been over to the dark side Phil, I mean Homer's blog.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 25, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Wrong, as you usually are but then you never let the facts get in the way of a smart arse comment. I was going to get the guy to order Monday but that's on hold until I hit a hard stepped demo.
		
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This needs explaining Martin


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 25, 2014)

richart said:



			Someone has been over to the dark side Phil, I mean Homer's blog.

Click to expand...

It's an amusing read - showed it to Charley Hull and her coach today


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## Phil2511 (Feb 25, 2014)

right guys, keep things friendly please


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 25, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			This needs explaining Martin
		
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Simples. Went to the range Friday night. Pro wrote the order sheet, I wrote blog on Sunday saying they were on order. Decided I wanted to hit a stepped shaft so spoke to the pro and put order on hold until he gets the demo model in. End of


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## pokerjoke (Feb 25, 2014)

Phil2511 said:



			right guys, keep things friendly please
		
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We only want the truth Phil


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 25, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			We only want the truth Phil
		
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Can you handle it ?


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## pokerjoke (Feb 25, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Simples. Went to the range Friday night. Pro wrote the order sheet, I wrote blog on Sunday saying they were on order. Decided I wanted to hit a stepped shaft so spoke to the pro and put order on hold until he gets the demo model in. End of
		
Click to expand...

Thankyou mate.End of


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## Stuart_C (Feb 25, 2014)

tsped83 said:



			Er, yeah, I'd read that you'd ordered them too Homer?
		
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It wasn't homer, somebody must've logged into his blagger account and written that, just like that mystery bloke who signed in as him and played in a comp at Royal Ascot while poor homer was at home resting a shoulder injury..


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 25, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Simples. Went to the range Friday night. Pro wrote the order sheet, I wrote blog on Sunday saying they were on order. Decided I wanted to hit a stepped shaft so spoke to the pro and put order on hold until he gets the demo model in. End of
		
Click to expand...

And my comment was based on said blog - maybe you need to change your statement on your blog.


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## ger147 (Feb 25, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Simples. Went to the range Friday night. Pro wrote the order sheet, I wrote blog on Sunday saying they were on order. Decided I wanted to hit a stepped shaft so spoke to the pro and put order on hold until he gets the demo model in. End of
		
Click to expand...

So in summary, yes your blog is wrong.

Thanks for clearing that up.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 25, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And my comment was based on said blog - maybe you need to change your statement on your blog.
		
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Thank you but not taking any advice from you on anyone else on how I run the blog. I decided to wait to hit the hard stepped demo after I wrote the blog. My clubs, my cash my decision. Didn't realise I had to run everything I did on here or on my blog past you.


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## Phil2511 (Feb 25, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Simples. Went to the range Friday night. Pro wrote the order sheet, I wrote blog on Sunday saying they were on order. Decided I wanted to hit a stepped shaft so spoke to the pro and put order on hold until he gets the demo model in. End of
		
Click to expand...

Guessed as much, done the same myself before, though i dont write a blog lol


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## Phil2511 (Feb 25, 2014)

OK this is the final request to stop with the snide remarks, from both sides.


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## smange (Feb 25, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Thank you but not taking any advice from you on anyone else on how I run the blog. I decided to wait to hit the hard stepped demo after I wrote the blog. My clubs, my cash my decision. Didn't realise I had to run everything I did on here or on my blog past you.
		
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Your being very arsey about this homer, you've wrote something on your blog, which you "advertise" on here then when someone asks you something about it which differs from what your saying on here you get all uptight about it and start being quite ignorant to people.

If you don't want people to read your blog stop using the forum to punt it or start to accept that your going to get comments on it whether good or bad.


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## User20205 (Feb 25, 2014)

Phil2511 said:



			OK this is the final request to stop with the snide remarks, from both sides.
		
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You are right, snide comments have no place.

I just feel a bit let down, a cornerstone of the forum is trust, when that is gone what else do we have left


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## User20205 (Feb 25, 2014)

smange said:



			Your being very arsey about this homer, you've wrote something on your blog, which you "advertise" on here then when someone asks you something about it which differs from what your saying on here you get all uptight about it and start being quite ignorant to people.

If you don't want people to read your blog stop using the forum to punt it or start to accept that your going to get comments on it whether good or bad.
		
Click to expand...

DÃ©jÃ  vu!!


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## Captainron (Feb 25, 2014)

therod said:



			You are right, snide comments have no place.

I just feel a bit let down, a cornerstone of the forum is trust, when that is gone what else do we have left

Click to expand...

Erm, alcohol. Definitely alcohol


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 25, 2014)

therod said:



			You are right, snide comments have no place.

I just feel a bit let down, a cornerstone of the forum is trust, when that is gone what else do we have left

Click to expand...

Humour ? And beer !


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## User20205 (Feb 25, 2014)

Captainron said:



			Erm, alcohol. Definitely alcohol
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



			Humour ? And beer !
		
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I for one feel betrayed, hurt and let down by a forum stalwart, I'm not sure beer is strong enough!!


I'm mean how many of the 30k plus post can we trust??


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## Captainron (Feb 25, 2014)

therod said:



			I for one feel betrayed, hurt and let down by a forum stalwart, I'm not sure beer is strong enough!!


I'm mean how many of the 30k plus post can we trust??
		
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There's a support group on here somewhere for that. 

The Ascot-Medal Vokey Ping Club meet on the second Wednesday of each month. Tea and coffee are free but you have to bring your own biscuits.


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## richart (Feb 25, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And beer !
		
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 That reminds me I have a nice cold one in the fridge. Remember Nick if you get an fraction, your club fitting will be taken away.


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## User20205 (Feb 25, 2014)

richart said:



			That reminds me I have a nice cold one in the fridge. Remember Nick if you get an fraction, your club fitting will be taken away.

Click to expand...

You are right of course Rich, all integrity has a price


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## Ista (Feb 25, 2014)

Could someone please close this thread before the I30s come out. Thanks


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## richart (Feb 25, 2014)

therod said:



			You are right of course Rich, all integrity has a price 

Click to expand...

 If I don't get picked for the Mizuno fitting, I am giving it both barrels though.


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## brendy (Feb 25, 2014)

Guys, as long and interesting as this thread has been (for some) lets stick to the topic.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 25, 2014)

Ista said:



			Could someone please close this thread before the I30s come out. Thanks 

Click to expand...


:rofl:


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