# Tour de France



## Scottjd1 (Jul 5, 2012)

I follow most sports and particulary with some Brits being in contention for this in the past few years I have been watching a bit.

However... i dont get it.

I assumed there were 20 stages and the time for each stage would be added up and the one with the quickest time would win, but for example yesterday, bradley was secone 7 seconds behind the leader and after the stage finished he was still 7 seconds back. Is that possible???

I am sure its quite simple, I know there a few keen cyclists on here and if anyone can give me a quick summary of how it works I'd be grateful !!


Thanks:thup:


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## fundy (Jul 5, 2012)

They are not individually timed but timed as a group when they finish so can finish 10 seconds behind someone and record the same time as long as no gap between them. Also, if you are impeded by a fall in the last 3km then you are awarded the time of the group you were with when the fall occurred not your actual finishing time (as you have no chance to recover)


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## Scottjd1 (Jul 5, 2012)

so you have to break away from the group which contains the leader to make up time? Makes sense..:whoo:


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## fundy (Jul 5, 2012)

Yep thats correct. Ultimately over the course of the tour, the main yellow jersey contenders will only have a few days where they record different times, usually the time trials and the hard mountain stages, the race does really start until they get into the mountains


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## Scottjd1 (Jul 5, 2012)

Okay thats good im gonna keep a good eye on it this year, do you think Bradley has a good chance?


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## USER1999 (Jul 5, 2012)

I did til one of his team mates got injured. He was the guy they were expecting to do the most work in the mountains.


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## pokerjoke (Jul 5, 2012)

I love the tour.
Bradley is in fact favourite to win the tour this year.
His main rival is Cadel Evans.
As Scott says,the tour will start in ernest for the main
contenders as soon as the mountains come.
The good news is,if one of these two win,theres a very good
chance it will be a drug free win.
Im a big fan of Mark Cavendish,big crash yesterday,hopefully
he can win a few more stages this year.


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## fundy (Jul 5, 2012)

the team mate Wiggins has lost is a big handicap so early in the tour. Cadel Evans the man to beat again for me though


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## Gazp (Jul 5, 2012)

Wiggins for me although I suppose I am biased being English. In my opinion this is by far the toughest sporting event of them all...over 100 miles a day for 3 weeks, much of it up hills that your car would struggle to get up.....if you're not a keen viewer wait until the mountain stages...all day live in Eurosport usually.


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## SaintHacker (Jul 5, 2012)

I really hope Evans doesn't win, last year was the most boring wim I've ever seen, don't think the guy attacked once. Wiggo is a fair bit lighter this year, seemingly without losing too much of his TT ability. I think (hope) he will put Evans to the sword in the Pyrenees and then seal the win in the last TT.


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## louise_a (Jul 5, 2012)

It does seem to me that its a question of who has the stamina to do well in the time trials, after all the other stages, providing no one has a brilliant time in the mountains.


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## SaintHacker (Jul 5, 2012)

louise_a said:



			It does seem to me that its a question of who has the stamina to do well in the time trials, after all the other stages, providing no one has a brilliant time in the mountains.
		
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Kind of. Time trialling is a very important ability for a tour winner. They have to able to climb well, although there will generally be specialist climbers who are faster in the hills, they get blown away on the time trials.


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## Yerman (Jul 5, 2012)

Indurain used to win with awesome time trialling whereas Armstrong could do that and just ride until no-one could keep up mountain stage after stage. Its in the mountains and time trials where the team support is less helpful and each man has to dig deep. Been a fan since Lemonde pipped Fignon in 89


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## MegaSteve (Jul 5, 2012)

Scottjd1 said:



			However... i dont get it.

I assumed there were 20 stages and the time for each stage would be added up and the one with the quickest time would win, but for example yesterday, bradley was secone 7 seconds behind the leader and after the stage finished he was still 7 seconds back. Is that possible???
		
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I believed [though I may be wrong] that if there was a crash in the last 3Kms... Time gaps were annulled...


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## SaintHacker (Jul 5, 2012)

MegaSteve said:



			I believed [though I may be wrong] that if there was a crash in the last 3Kms... Time gaps were annulled...
		
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Only for riders in the group where the crash happened. So if there was an earlier crash that split the race in two, then assuming the crash happened in the front group, the second group would still get their own time, if that makes sense


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## MegaSteve (Jul 6, 2012)

SaintHacker said:



			Only for riders in the group where the crash happened. So if there was an earlier crash that split the race in two, then assuming the crash happened in the front group, the second group would still get their own time, if that makes sense
		
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Yes, it makes sense and thanks for the clarification...


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## MegaSteve (Jul 6, 2012)

Another HUGE accident today really split up the field... Think 1 or 2 potential tour winners have seen their chances dis-appear today...


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 6, 2012)

I love the Eurosport coverage which is thorough but explains the nuances to the first time viewer too


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## Imurg (Jul 6, 2012)

fundy said:



			They are not individually timed but timed as a group when they finish so can finish 10 seconds behind someone and record the same time as long as no gap between them. Also, if you are impeded by a fall in the last 3km then you are awarded the time of the group you were with when the fall occurred not your actual finishing time (as you have no chance to recover)
		
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So it's not really a race then is it....????

If there's a crash in F1 then you're out (or a lap or 2 down), if you trip during a 10k running race the rest of the runners don't wait for you at the next bend, these days a jockey can't get back on his horse once he's fallen off.........


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## NWJocko (Jul 6, 2012)

fundy said:



			the team mate Wiggins has lost is a big handicap so early in the tour. Cadel Evans the man to beat again for me though
		
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Is it Froome? Sorry for the hijack, away on holiday with close to zero Internet and tv so strugglIng to follow it!


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## SaintHacker (Jul 6, 2012)

NWJocko said:



			Is it Froome? Sorry for the hijack, away on holiday with close to zero Internet and tv so strugglIng to follow it!
		
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Sitsou.


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## colint (Jul 8, 2012)

Imurg said:



			So it's not really a race then is it....????

If there's a crash in F1 then you're out (or a lap or 2 down), if you trip during a 10k running race the rest of the runners don't wait for you at the next bend, these days a jockey can't get back on his horse once he's fallen off.........
		
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It's the same time for each bunch of riders, so if a group of 50 are ahead of another group of 50 by 1 minutes then they get the minute advantage. It's mainly for safety reasons, it can take a few minutes for a large group to cross the line, if every second was counted then there'd be carnage with everyone trying to push through on a narrow road.


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## Scottjd1 (Jul 13, 2012)

Now I (kind of)understand it better, i have been watching and I must say its pretty addictive.


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## Imurg (Jul 13, 2012)

colint said:



			It's the same time for each bunch of riders, so if a group of 50 are ahead of another group of 50 by 1 minutes then they get the minute advantage. It's mainly for safety reasons, it can take a few minutes for a large group to cross the line, if every second was counted then there'd be carnage with everyone trying to push through on a narrow road.
		
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Sooo - there's too many of them.
Or they need a wider track...

So if everyone was in the same group - ie no gaps from the guy who "wins" the stage to the guy bringing up the rear - they all get the same time even though there could be several minutes between first and last......

And once you've got a lead you can actually finish behind everyone else as long as you're in the same group as your challengers...

Wierd......


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## colint (Jul 13, 2012)

Imurg said:



			Sooo - there's too many of them.
Or they need a wider track...

So if everyone was in the same group - ie no gaps from the guy who "wins" the stage to the guy bringing up the rear - they all get the same time even though there could be several minutes between first and last......

And once you've got a lead you can actually finish behind everyone else as long as you're in the same group as your challengers...

Wierd......
		
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Basically yes, everyone finishes together, everyone gets the same time. But that only happens in about 4 of the 21 stages, and there'll be a sprint to win that actual stage. You get points for winning th sprint for a seperate competition within the race, but this is starting to feel like explaining immovable obstructions to a none golfer


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## mouth (Jul 13, 2012)

Don't forget the other separate competition = King of the Mountains. In summary (at least for me) there's actually 4 races going on.

King of the Mountains = polka dot jersey, riders collect points for winning an intermediate climb and for placing in designated climbing stages

Points race (for the sprinters mainly) = green jersey, riders collect points for winning intermediate sprints usually around halfway in the stage and then for winning the designated sprinting stages.

General classification = yellow jersey, the rider with the best (lowest) overall time regardless of whether he has picked up any points in any of the other categories.

Young rider = white jersey, the rider with the best overall time under 25 years of age again regardless of points in the other categories.

During time trials Tony Martin would have worn a team jersey with the colours of the UCI signifying that he is world champion in that discipline but has withdrawn from this years event. Likewise in the general road stages Mark Cavendish is world champion and wears a white jersey with team sponsorship (Team SKY) and the UCI bands across his chest.


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## Paul_Stewart (Jul 14, 2012)

Individual national champions also get to wear their own country's colours in the Tour as well.


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## chrisd (Jul 14, 2012)

Funny sport cycling:

How about seperate competitions for

Father with child seated up to 4 years old

Fastest time trial for cycling on pavement stopping at traffic lights

Fastest time trial for cycling on pavement not stopping for anything

Points for not scratching paintwork of cars parked

Deduction of points for dismounting at pelican crossing extra deduction for actually pressing the button

Style points for weaving in and out of stationary traffic

Maybe there are others you can think of


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## USER1999 (Jul 14, 2012)

chrisd said:



			Funny sport cycling:

How about seperate competitions for

Father with child seated up to 4 years old

Fastest time trial for cycling on pavement stopping at traffic lights

Fastest time trial for cycling on pavement not stopping for anything

Points for not scratching paintwork of cars parked

Deduction of points for dismounting at pelican crossing extra deduction for actually pressing the button

Style points for weaving in and out of stationary traffic

Maybe there are others you can think of
		
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The cyclist who can get furthest through the town centre, at night, without being spotted.


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## Adi2Dassler (Jul 14, 2012)

Look out for Le Col Du Tourmalet when they hit the Pyrenees.I've been to the top in a car and I honestly do not know how a human can cycle up that road.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Col_du_Tourmalet


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## Scottjd1 (Jul 21, 2012)

Anybody going to be watching Bradley cycle to victory tomorrow?

Im recording it and will watch after the Open, awesome achievement!:cheers:


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## hamshanker (Jul 21, 2012)

Scottjd1 said:



			Anybody going to be watching Bradley cycle to victory tomorrow?

Im recording it and will watch after the Open, awesome achievement!:cheers:
		
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Yeh watched the whole tour,he does come across abit arrogant and ive witnessed it in person,but he has looked so strong through-out the tour....

But...i think Froome would have pushed him if he was with another team,but im made up for Bradley and might try and get a few mile with him in winter when he's out riding as ive seen him couple times as im not far from him.....after that i may need an extra lung n say goodbye


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## mouth (Jul 22, 2012)

Unless he falls off and injures himself to the point where he can't carry on which is basically unlikely mutton chop has won the Tour and there isn't really much to watch on that front tomorrow. 

The big one for me in the afternoon is Cav sprinting in Paris. I'm more interested in that. Overall though a great result for British cycling and a good marker for the Olympic road race next week.


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## colint (Jul 22, 2012)

Fantastic achievment, be great to see Cav pick up another win in Paris. Wiggo can come across as a bit arrogant sometimes I agree, but it's refreshing to hear a British athlete say "I'm here to win", and then actually follow it through. He knew he was good enough and knew he's put the work in. One of the greatest ever British sporting achievments imho


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## jammydodger (Jul 22, 2012)

I've watched it from start to finish today. I'm also looking for Sky to lead out Cav for the sprint this afternoon. I always enjoy the mountain stages best as you get to see just what these guys are made of (and the scenery is top notch too).


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## CMAC (Jul 22, 2012)

Imurg said:



			Sooo - there's too many of them.
Or they need a wider track...

So if everyone was in the same group - ie no gaps from the guy who "wins" the stage to the guy bringing up the rear - they all get the same time even though there could be several minutes between first and last......

And once you've got a lead you can actually finish behind everyone else as long as you're in the same group as your challengers...

Wierd......
		
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colint said:



			Basically yes, everyone finishes together, everyone gets the same time. But that only happens in about 4 of the 21 stages, and there'll be a sprint to win that actual stage. You get points for winning th sprint for a seperate competition within the race, but this is starting to feel like explaining immovable obstructions to a none golfer 

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I'm with Imurg on this, was watching Sky News coverage and hoping they would explain what he needs to do to win, but they are saying its pretty much over unless a disaster......so you can lose....but still win
What determines a group? a yard apart? a bike lenght, 10 yards? and who monitors a group? 
The sprint at the end is pointless if no-one gets separated from the group?
Just trying to understand it.....


P.S immoveable obstructions; its an obstruction and immovable, could it be any simpler


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## fundy (Jul 22, 2012)

brilliant to see Wiggins in yellow leading out the sprint train for Cavendish to win in Paris then follow him over the line to win the Tour - awesome effort from Wiggins, Froome, Cavendish and all of team Sky


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## colint (Jul 22, 2012)

Perfect ending, fantastic team performance


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## USER1999 (Jul 22, 2012)

Switched over from the golf just in time to see wiggo lead out cav. Great finish to a good tour. Awesome. Love that.

Now, come on g mac.


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## louise_a (Jul 22, 2012)

I turned the golf over too to watch the last 10K, great performance by all the Sky team, perfect finish too.


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## CMAC (Jul 22, 2012)

what I didnt get was he was leading then he pulls out and lets about 50 cyclists overtake with a few hundred yards to go, didnt he want to win it or is it like F1 with team orders?

sorry for some maybe well known answers, this is all new to me


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## colint (Jul 22, 2012)

DarthVega said:



			what I didnt get was he was leading then he pulls out and lets about 50 cyclists overtake with a few hundred yards to go, didnt he want to win it or is it like F1 with team orders?

sorry for some maybe well known answers, this is all new to me
		
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He actually couldn't have won, the rider on the front will be working harder than those following, sitting on somebodies wheel and getting a "tow" means you use 25% less energy. So the teams riders take turns going on the front and giving it everything they've got, when they start to tire they pull off and somebody else takes over. the idea is to get your faster sprinter to the front in the last 500 metres as fresh a possible. It probably looked like Wiggins could have kept going, but he'd have been overtaken by the sprinters at the end


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## ScottishDave (Jul 22, 2012)

I watched the last 30k or so, flicking back to the golf every now and again.  

Got to say that I have watched a lot of the Tour this last week and have quite enjoyed it.  I never, ever thought i'd say that about anything other than track cycling.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 22, 2012)

Superb event.... Superb result :thup:...


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 22, 2012)

OK, here's a question for the cycling buffs.

I know the TdF is very much a team effort to get your leader to win the tour... or to position your sprinter for the sprints etc.

Is it possible for one team to organise themselves such that they could win both the green and yellow jersey's? (i.e. cav and wiggo) Or is that just spreading resources too thin?


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## Paul_Stewart (Jul 22, 2012)

That would take an incredibly strong team.  You would need a real climber and time trial man like Wiggins for the yellow and then a sprinter like Cavendish for the green.  Your team would have to chase down pretty much any breakaway to position Cavendish each day and yet still be there to launch Wiggins in the mountains and defend any attacks from the maillot jeune contenders.  Team Sky are about as close to being able to do it as any team in the past.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 22, 2012)

The big question is will Wiggins, Cavendish etc recover in time for the olympic road race next Saturday


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## Scottjd1 (Jul 22, 2012)

Well after that il be off to Box Hill next week, the cyclists are doing 9 circuits around in the Olympic road race.

Really enjoyed it and will be wathcing this in the future.

Amazing achievement :thup:


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 22, 2012)

It's going near Silveremere so might go and watch it with HID and retire there for some lunch


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## mouth (Jul 22, 2012)

Scottjd1 said:



			Well after that il be off to Box Hill next week, the cyclists are doing 9 circuits around in the Olympic road race.

Really enjoyed it and will be wathcing this in the future.

Amazing achievement :thup:
		
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Box Hill is a ticketed area.


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## fat-tiger (Jul 22, 2012)

ive managed to watch most of it over last 3 weeks some days just the highlights,really enjoyed it, great event, brave fits lads take my hat off to em,even better next year when contador is back and froome leaves sky to challange
brad a worthy winner 1 min 16 sec better than his nearest rival yesterday is some ride
the way cav has taken off twice in the last 3 days you could say he is hitting form at the right time,
if the boys put him in the right place we got a great chance of gold,


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## USER1999 (Jul 22, 2012)

Do we need contador back? Schleck? Drug taking cheats. Need banning for life. Go wiggo. Go.


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## PieMan (Jul 22, 2012)

murphthemog said:



			Do we need contador back? Schleck? Drug taking cheats. Need banning for life. Go wiggo. Go.
		
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Incredibly Contador is favourite to win next years race when he returns from his suspension for drugs! Incredible - drug cheats should be banned for life!


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## MegaSteve (Jul 22, 2012)

PieMan said:



			- drug cheats should be banned for life!
		
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100% agree...


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## JustOne (Jul 23, 2012)

Imurg said:



			So it's not really a race then is it....????

If there's a crash in F1 then you're out (or a lap or 2 down), if you trip during a 10k running race the rest of the runners don't wait for you at the next bend, these days a jockey can't get back on his horse once he's fallen off.........
		
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Think of it as *STABLEFORD*... you can hit 5 off the tee, duff that one around a few times, then pick up and still get the same as a double bogey.......


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## Monty_Brown (Jul 23, 2012)

murphthemog said:



			Do we need contador back? Schleck? Drug taking cheats. Need banning for life. Go wiggo. Go.
		
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Not for nothing are Andy and Frank Schleck known as The Chemical Brothers...

Think Froome will have gone elsewhere next year to lead a team and have a shot at the GC on his own. He needs to improve hit time trialling a little, but apart from that he's got a chance.


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## colint (Jul 23, 2012)

I don't think they'll let him go, it's possible that the route would suit Froome more next year if there's more climbing / less time tiralling. Sky will want a plan B and also won't want to be facing Froome in the high mountains


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