# Jose Mourinho's Chelsea



## HawkeyeMS (Apr 27, 2014)

Why is it that Sky Sports presenters have to refer to Chelsea as "Jose Mourinho's Chelsea"? It's just Chelsea and Jose Mourinho ain't that special!

:sbox:


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 27, 2014)

Got to be up there with the worst threads ever started


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## HawkeyeMS (Apr 27, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Got to be up there with the worst threads ever started 

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Sorry, had to get it off my chest (P.S. Your reply was nothing special :ears


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## Fish (Apr 27, 2014)




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## Pin-seeker (Apr 27, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Sorry, had to get it off my chest (P.S. Your reply was nothing special :ears

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Amazing


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## HawkeyeMS (Apr 27, 2014)

Fish said:



View attachment 10184

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That's how I felt watching the CL match the other day


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## Fish (Apr 27, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			That's how I felt watching the CL match the other day 

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Its not about entertaining you, its about tactics and getting through for me, which we did :smirk:


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## Andy808 (Apr 27, 2014)

Fish said:



View attachment 10184

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HawkeyeMS said:



			That's how I felt watching the CL match the other day 

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Pretty much sums up how Chavski play now. :mmm:


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## Fish (Apr 27, 2014)

If you have the best defence in the league, you use them, and if you can then win games on the break, then that's what you do, its about winning, tactics, not entertaining, if you want to be entertained, buy tickets for the West End :smirk:

Arsenal have 'entertained' and I have enjoyed watching them at times, but, what has that won them


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## HawkeyeMS (Apr 27, 2014)

Fish said:



			Its not about entertaining you, its about tactics and getting through for me, which we did :smirk:
		
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So why did Mourinho have such a go at West Ham at the Bridge? Parking the bus is parking the bus and it's dull as ditch water


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## Jensen (Apr 27, 2014)

Fish said:



			Its not about entertaining you, its about tactics and getting through for me, which we did :smirk:
		
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You haven't yet, there's the second leg to play.....


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 27, 2014)

Fish said:



			If you have the best defence in the league, you use them, and if you can then win games on the break, then that's what you do, its about winning, tactics, not entertaining, if you want to be entertained, buy tickets for the West End :smirk:

*Arsenal have 'entertained' and I have enjoyed watching them at times, but, what has that won them* 

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It's the results that count and he has the results


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## Fish (Apr 27, 2014)

Jensen said:



			You haven't yet, there's the second leg to play.....
		
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OK, we got through unscathed :smirk:


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## Fish (Apr 27, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			So why did Mourinho have such a go at West Ham at the Bridge? Parking the bus is parking the bus and it's dull as ditch water
		
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Because they didn't counter attack, their stats were terrible, we created the first few opportunities today and forced saves well before Liverpool, and continued to do so when we broke, it was a job well done and 3 points.


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## Laka (Apr 27, 2014)

It was an great achIvement by the blues reserves in the lions den today,,


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## Jensen (Apr 27, 2014)

Fish said:



			If you have the best defence in the league, you use them, and if you can then win games on the break, then that's what you do, its about winning, tactics, not entertaining, if you want to be entertained, buy tickets for the West End :smirk:

:
		
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Total tosh, I watch football for entertainment. Want my team, (Spurs) to win but as importantly I want to be entertained.

Regardless of results could never put up with Allardyce style of play


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## Fish (Apr 27, 2014)

Jensen said:



			Total tosh, I watch football for entertainment (Spurs)
		
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:rofl: I've read it all now :rofl:


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## HawkeyeMS (Apr 27, 2014)

Fish said:



			If you have the best defence in the league, you use them, and if you can then win games on the break, then that's what you do, its about winning, tactics, not entertaining, if you want to be entertained, buy tickets for the West End :smirk:

Arsenal have 'entertained' and I have enjoyed watching them at times, but, what has that won them 

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I think this might be why I have lost a bit of interest in Football over the last few years. Football to me is supposed to be entertaining, I'm sure it used to be entertaining but the recent win at all costs mentality just seems to be sucking the life out of the game.


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## Jensen (Apr 27, 2014)

Fish said:



			:rofl: I've read it all now :rofl: 

View attachment 10192

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I like it, I'll give you that one:clap:


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 27, 2014)

Jensen said:



			Total tosh, I watch football for entertainment. Want my team, (Spurs) to win but as importantly I want to be entertained.

Regardless of results could never put up with Allardyce style of play

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Well Spurs have certainly been "entertaining" this season


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## Essex_Stu (Apr 27, 2014)

Knew the chelsea bashers would be out in force again today. Wheres slime?


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## Jensen (Apr 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well Spurs have certainly been "entertaining" this season
		
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Quite, both on the pitch but all too sadly in the boardroom as well


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 27, 2014)

Jensen said:



			Quite, both on the pitch but all too sadly in the boardroom as well
		
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Being awful on the pitch isn't entertainment worth celebrating :thup:


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 27, 2014)

Thought it was an immense Chelsea performance today. Unlike that effort from Fulham which I think has sealed our fate. Why couldn't we have parked the bus at 2-0 yesterday


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## Fish (Apr 27, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Thought it was an immense Chelsea performance today. Unlike that effort from Fulham which I think has sealed our fate. Why couldn't we have parked the bus at 2-0 yesterday
		
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Looking for another immense performance from our youth tomorrow night against Fulham in FA Cup Final 1st leg :smirk:


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## HawkeyeMS (Apr 27, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Thought it was an immense Chelsea performance today. Unlike that effort from Fulham which I think has sealed our fate. Why couldn't we have parked the bus at 2-0 yesterday
		
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If we have to park the bus when 2-0 up at home to Hull, we don't deserve to be in the Premier League.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 27, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			If we have to park the bus when 2-0 up at home to Hull, we don't deserve to be in the Premier League.
		
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Means to an end in the mess we're in. Stay up (or not now) and then start again next year. We're down after Sunderland's win so academic


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## HawkeyeMS (Apr 27, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Means to an end in the mess we're in. Stay up (or not now) and then start again next year. We're down after Sunderland's win so academic
		
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Frankly I don't trust the club to build again. We've needed to build since Hodgson left and we've tried to do it on the cheap. We are where we are through incompetence at the top.

I still think 2 wins keeps us up but I don't see us getting them.


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## Andy808 (Apr 27, 2014)

Good to see him showing all the ball boys and girls out there how to hang onto the ball and not get "punched".








"no go and get your own ball this one's mine now!"


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## c1973 (Apr 27, 2014)

Andy808 said:



Good to see him showing all the ball boys and girls out there how to hang onto the ball and not get "punched".








"no go and get your own ball this one's mine now!"
		
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I was thinking the same thing when I saw this. Stunts like that should see you sent to the stands tbh, and yes, I know Jose won't be the only one to do things like this. Managers etc should pick their team, sit in the bleeding dug out and let the players get on with it imo.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 27, 2014)

Andy808 said:



Good to see him showing all the ball boys and girls out there how to hang onto the ball and not get "punched".








"no go and get your own ball this one's mine now!"
		
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Sorry but surely Maureen wouldn't do that after his speech about ball boys not giving the ball back


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## jak kez 187 (Apr 27, 2014)

not a fan of chelsea's boring style of play but at the end of the day football is about winning.

if you want to be entertained, go to the theatre.


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## HawkeyeMS (Apr 27, 2014)

jak kez 187 said:



			not a fan of chelsea's boring style of play but at the end of the day football is about winning.

if you want to be entertained, go to the theatre.
		
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Rubbish, why would you go to a premier league football match not to be entertained? This is everything that is wrong with the modern game, everything.


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## Andy808 (Apr 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but surely Maureen wouldn't do that after his speech about ball boys not giving the ball back 

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What this quote.



Jose Mourinho: "I told the ballboy not to waste time, otherwise heâ€™ll get punched by one of my players."

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But, but, but.....
According to Jimmy Case




			[h=1]He's an idiot! Liverpool legend slams Jose Mourinho for Steven Gerrard touchline scuffle[/h]
"He's being an idiot. He's got the hump with the FA, he's got the hump with everyone and probably got the hump because he's ill. He's just being an idiot."

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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 27, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Rubbish, why would you go to a premier league football match not to be entertained? This is everything that is wrong with the modern game, everything.
		
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Because 95%+ of those people attending the game are doing so because they support one of the teams participating and ultimately care more about the result than the performance.

Those that are not bothered about the result are generally sat at home watching on television. If the game is to consider them ahead of the actual supporters it will do so at the expense of atmosphere within the grounds.


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## 6inchcup (Apr 27, 2014)

i see RODGERS had his mard lip on,"they had to many men behind the ball its not fair they should let us play how we want,they only scored on break aways boo hoo boo hoo !!!!!" get a grip, you were out thought and out played plain and simple.


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## Jdb2005 (Apr 27, 2014)

Just back from anfield. Class. Come on the blues


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## User62651 (Apr 27, 2014)

For me Chelsea haven't been a defensive team all season, just noticeably in the Athletico game and today to a lesser degree. There have been times when their midfield of especially Oscar and Hazard have been in full flow when they've been as entertaining and offensive as any team with perhaps the exception of Liverpool. Chelsea are a class team and Mourinho has his players motivated and superfit, playing for him more than any other teams players play for their managers.
Where are Oscar and Hazard at the moment?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 27, 2014)

6inchcup said:



			i see RODGERS had his mard lip on,"they had to many men behind the ball its not fair they should let us play how we want,they only scored on break aways boo hoo boo hoo !!!!!" get a grip, you were out thought and out played plain and simple.
		
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It was very much a tongue in cheek comment hence he used a smile when saying it 

Also congratulated Chelsea on a hard earned win


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 27, 2014)

Chelsea had the better game plan today. Liverpool looked a little short of attacking ideas. I'm not convinced it's all over by a long way and have a feeling Everton v Man City isn't a forgone conclusion for City


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## Papas1982 (Apr 27, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Rubbish, why would you go to a premier league football match not to be entertained? This is everything that is wrong with the modern game, everything.
		
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Football is all about winning. All this about performance is irrelevant if you want success. Granted, if you entertain whilst doing it then that's a bonus. But wining is what matters most if success to your team is you main desire.


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## Slime (Apr 27, 2014)

Essex_Stu said:



			Knew the chelsea bashers would be out in force again today. *Wheres slime?*

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Yoo hoo ....................... I'm over here *Stu*, but I don't think I'm a Chelsea basher. In fact I was desperate for them to win today!
Why do you think I'm one of those anyway?
I'll admit to thinking Mourinho is a piece of shameless filth, albeit a fabulous tactician and John Terry is ............................... well, John Terry, and that's not a good thing, oh, and watching Chelsea against Atletico Madrid and Man City was like watching a dog with fleas, but I'm not a Chelsea basher ....................... I just say it as I see it.
If they won the Premirship I wouldn't have a problem with that.


*Slime*.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 27, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Football is all about winning. All this about performance is irrelevant if you want success. Granted, if you entertain whilst doing it then that's a bonus. But wining is what matters most if success to your team is you main desire.
		
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Liverpool just not good enough.== Fastest winger in the league( Sterling) oldest fullback in the league (Cole) why is Sterling playing on the left.== Liverpool never got behind the defence at all .== the only way to get past a parked bus is to go around it, Liverpool did not do this.=== Chelsea game plan was perfect but would you like to pay your hard earned to watch that.== Rodgers tactics never changed for 90 mins even when not working was hard to watch.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 27, 2014)

clubchamp98 said:



			Liverpool just not good enough.== Fastest winger in the league( Sterling) oldest fullback in the league (Cole) why is Sterling playing on the left.== Liverpool never got behind the defence at all .== the only way to get past a parked bus is to go around it, Liverpool did not do this.=== Chelsea game plan was perfect but would you like to pay your hard earned to watch that.== Rodgers tactics never changed for 90 mins even when not working was hard to watch.
		
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Chelsea don't play like it in ever game. They're just more experienced and know when the result comes first. Cole may be old. But he's still probably the best defensive lb in the league. Think rodgers just got schooled today. Still, few more weeks for twists to maybe occur.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 27, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Rubbish, why would you go to a premier league football match not to be entertained? This is everything that is wrong with the modern game, everything.
		
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This is whats wrong with " Modern Day Fans" who turn up to be entertained. I as "Supporter" go the game to support the team and watch football. Maybe i'm old fashioned.

No football team has ever played 38/42/46 entertaining games every season because they can't. Some games will be fantastic to watch but you can't expect it every week.

I think your post highlights how much football has changed and now you've got "fans" demanding entertainment because they pay Â£50+ a ticket.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 27, 2014)

clubchamp98 said:



			Liverpool just not good enough.== Fastest winger in the league( Sterling) oldest fullback in the league (Cole) why is Sterling playing on the left.== Liverpool never got behind the defence at all .== the only way to get past a parked bus is to go around it, Liverpool did not do this.=== Chelsea game plan was perfect but would you like to pay your hard earned to watch that.== *Rodgers tactics never changed for 90 mins even when not working was hard to watch*.
		
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I think that's just down to experience. But he'll have to learn quickly because most european games, teams set up exactly the same as that today and we won't get through the group stages.


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## HawkeyeMS (Apr 28, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			This is whats wrong with " Modern Day Fans" who turn up to be entertained. I as "Supporter" go the game to support the team and watch football. Maybe i'm old fashioned.

No football team has ever played 38/42/46 entertaining games every season because they can't. Some games will be fantastic to watch but you can't expect it every week.

I think your post highlights how much football has changed and now you've got "fans" demanding entertainment because they pay Â£50+ a ticket.
		
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Mate, I'm not a modern day fan. I've been watching football for 31 years from the bottom of the old division 4 to the Premier League. I started to lose interest when We got to the Premier League. The Premiership is supposed to be the best league in the world and the CL is supposed to be the pinnacle of european football yet just about everytime I turn on to watch the supposed best teams in Europe I get served up dross like Chelsea vs Atletico Madrid the other night. If all you care about is winning then fine, you enjoy yourself but you'll excuse me if I don't find it very interesting.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 28, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Mate, I'm not a modern day fan. I've been watching football for 31 years from the bottom of the old division 4 to the Premier League. I started to lose interest when We got to the Premier League. The Premiership is supposed to be the best league in the world and the CL is supposed to be the pinnacle of european football yet just about everytime I turn on to watch the supposed best teams in Europe I get served up dross like Chelsea vs Atletico Madrid the other night. If all you care about is winning then fine, you enjoy yourself but you'll excuse me if I don't find it very interesting.
		
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out of curiosity who do you support. Because, whilst I can agree that to a neutral the game you've mentioned may have been boring. The fans of Chelsea would of loved it. If you only watch the odd game there's a fair chance they're not all gonna be 6-3. But to fans that watch their team week in, they watch for the result, not just to be entertained.


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## Dellboy (Apr 28, 2014)

I thought it was a great game to watch, well done Chelsea. They did what they had to and came away with the points. 
Just hope Man C go on to win all there games and win the Prem.


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## Fish (Apr 28, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			out of curiosity who do you support. Because, whilst I can agree that to a neutral the game you've mentioned may have been boring. The fans of Chelsea would of loved it. If you only watch the odd game there's a fair chance they're not all gonna be 6-3. But to fans that watch their team week in, they watch for the result, not just to be entertained.
		
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I think you'll find its Fulham, which explains a lot :smirk:


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## Birchy (Apr 28, 2014)

Defending is an art just as much as attacking. Seeing goal fests is all good and well but if that's means utterly abysmal defending then whats the point.

I like it when a team has to produce something special to score a goal and Chelsea stopped Liverpool from doing that. Keeping that attack scoreless is fantastic especially considering they didn't have their best centre back pairing and keeper playing.


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## HawkeyeMS (Apr 28, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			out of curiosity who do you support. Because, whilst I can agree that to a neutral the game you've mentioned may have been boring. The fans of Chelsea would of loved it. If you only watch the odd game there's a fair chance they're not all gonna be 6-3. But to fans that watch their team week in, they watch for the result, not just to be entertained.
		
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I support Fulham but that isn't really relevent here (and I am not one of these Fulham fans who hates Chelsea because they are Chelsea, I would be saying the same about any team, it just happens to be Chelsea at the moment) I understand that when it is your team you have an blurred view of what actually happens on the pitch and winning does rather improve your memory of the performance. However, as a fan of a team who is never likely to win anything, I find watching games where we are not involved rather easier to watch and I just don't think that a team with the resources that Chelsea have should be going into games against title rivals and CL Semi finalists and Parking the Bus, it just doesn't seem right. I know it is effective and I'm sure the Chelsea fans are delighted but entertainment it is not.


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## Birchy (Apr 28, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Rubbish, why would you go to a premier league football match not to be entertained? This is everything that is wrong with the modern game, everything.
		
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Whats wrong with the modern game is football fans being brainwashed by watching 25,000 games a season on sky sports. Football has always been about attacking and defending. There has always been low scoring tactical games since the game started its not a new modern thing at all.

If you cant find entertainment from a tactical game of football go watch basketball, plenty goals or baskets or whatever they call them.

Read your signature by Jack. Jose applied that to football with Chelsea yesterday and that's why he is a genius just like Jack was.


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## HawkeyeMS (Apr 28, 2014)

Birchy said:



			Whats wrong with the modern game is football fans being brainwashed by watching 25,000 games a season on sky sports. Football has always been about attacking and defending. There has always been low scoring tactical games since the game started its not a new modern thing at all.

If you cant find entertainment from a tactical game of football go watch basketball, plenty goals or baskets or whatever they call them.

Read your signature by Jack. Jose applied that to football with Chelsea yesterday and that's why he is a genius just like Jack was.
		
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What's wrong with Modern football is money


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## Birchy (Apr 28, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			What's wrong with Modern football is money
		
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Your sure its not going to a premier league match not to be entertained?


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## Hacker Khan (Apr 28, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I support Fulham but that isn't really relevent here (and I am not one of these Fulham fans who hates Chelsea because they are Chelsea, I would be saying the same about any team, it just happens to be Chelsea at the moment) I understand that when it is your team you have an blurred view of what actually happens on the pitch and winning does rather improve your memory of the performance. However, as a fan of a team who is never likely to win anything, I find watching games where we are not involved rather easier to watch and I just don't think that a team with the resources that Chelsea have should be going into games against title rivals and CL Semi finalists and Parking the Bus, it just doesn't seem right. I know it is effective and I'm sure the Chelsea fans are delighted but entertainment it is not.
		
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I think Jose is a petulant, decisive and when he starts questioning the officials (who lets remember, without them there would be no game) a nasty little &$%&%Â£%%.  And the sad thing is most of the press just lap it up as they are too afraid/stupid/in awe to say point out to his face he is talking complete garbage most of the time. Yes we know that he does it to deflect from his teams performance but really, does he have to treat others with such contempt to do it?  

But in terms of winning games then I think he's just being a pragmatist.  His team can attach and play sweet flowing football if they need to, but in this case he recognised that Liverpool would probably beat them at that game when you compare the players available.  So he switched tactics and it obviously worked.  

I don't really like the guy, I think most neutrals (if such a thing exists) would like to see Liverpool win the league this year instead of teams with an unlimited supply of money available to them.  But hey ho, I'm sure there are more twists to come but can't help thinking Liverpool have blown it now.  And Chelsea may well win the Champs League with the biggest display of bus parking ever seen in the final.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 28, 2014)

Fish said:



			I think you'll find its Fulham, which explains a lot :smirk:
		
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It does really, spend longer watching lower level footy and you'll get to enjoy more goals as the tactics are a lot more you go, we go. I've visited Crabble (dover) on occasion and the games are always entertaining. But I would want to watch it week in week out.


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## Fish (Apr 28, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			What's wrong with Modern football is money
		
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But that's always been around also pro rata, the 1st Â£1m player back in the 70's, the first Â£10,000 in 1928 (Arsenal), how much was that in those days? Man Utd and even Liverpool have led the front in breaking the records on Transfer deals and wages and now they complain because others can now buy the best of the best and compete against them, its laughable. Rooney just lately and RVP are the highest wage earners and George Best was the first Â£1000 a week earner, the first to break the Â£10,00 per week bracket was John Barnes and the first to break the Â£50,000 mould was Roy Keane, Sol Cambell was the first to break Â£100k per week and so it goes on.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 28, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I support Fulham but that isn't really relevent here (and I am not one of these Fulham fans who hates Chelsea because they are Chelsea, I would be saying the same about any team, it just happens to be Chelsea at the moment) I understand that when it is your team you have an blurred view of what actually happens on the pitch and winning does rather improve your memory of the performance. However, as a fan of a team who is never likely to win anything, I find watching games where we are not involved rather easier to watch and I just don't think that a team with the resources that Chelsea have should be going into games against title rivals and CL Semi finalists and Parking the Bus, it just doesn't seem right. I know it is effective and I'm sure the Chelsea fans are delighted but entertainment it is not.
		
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the reason I asked was wasn't to accuse of any bias, which you still defended yourself against. But simply to see what standard of team you support. Supporting a team like Fulham or saints in my case can make us idealists at times. Because relegation aside our games will have less significance than a semi final in Europe or potential title decided. Chelsea don't typical park the bus every game. They've scored similar amounts of goals as arsenal who are often held up as the footballing philosophers. They also, IMO didn't park the bus. The difference between what they did and west ham recently is when they got the ball they ventured over the half line with purpose. 

I agree id generally prefer high goal scoring games, but as Alan Hansen has pointed out many a time. Not all goals are beause of good football. Plenty are from inept defending. Surely it's not good to be watching poorly skilled defenders hand it on a plate all the time.


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## sawtooth (Apr 28, 2014)

Nothing wrong with "parking the bus" after all defending  is a big part of the game. Chelsea's tactics were spot on, sit back and be very tight defensively and try to hit Liverpool on the break. They did so albeit with a Gerrard slip up and after that Liverpool had to come forward even more which played into Chelsea's hands.

I don't like Chelsea but you have to congratulate Mourinho on how he organises teams to get results.


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## Birchy (Apr 28, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			I think Jose is a petulant, decisive and when he starts questioning the officials (who lets remember, without them there would be no game) a nasty little &$%&%Â£%%.  And the sad thing is most of the press just lap it up as they are too afraid/stupid/in awe to say point out to his face he is talking complete garbage most of the time. Yes we know that he does it to deflect from his teams performance but really, does he have to treat others with such contempt to do it?  

But in terms of winning games then I think he's just being a pragmatist.  His team can attach and play sweet flowing football if they need to, but in this case he recognised that Liverpool would probably beat them at that game when you compare the players available.  So he switched tactics and it obviously worked.  

I don't really like the guy, I think most neutrals (if such a thing exists) would like to see Liverpool win the league this year instead of teams with an unlimited supply of money available to them.  But hey ho, I'm sure there are more twists to come but can't help thinking Liverpool have blown it now.  And Chelsea may well win the Champs League with the biggest display of bus parking ever seen in the final.
		
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I want Liverpool to win it as well but they have spent a fair few quid along the way. They aren't exactly paupers :rofl:

He gets away with talking crap because his record speaks for itself. You tell him he is talking crap and he can just say "Look what I have won" Argument over 

FWIW I don't like it when he has a pop at officials as well and that's the same for anyone who does it. sometimes when your so fired up you just cant help it  He isn't the only one who does it. Wenger and Fergie did/do it loads.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 28, 2014)

Fish said:



			But that's always been around also pro rata, the 1st Â£1m player back in the 70's, the first Â£10,000 in 1928 (Arsenal), how much was that in those days? Man Utd and even Liverpool have led the front in breaking the records on Transfer deals and wages and now they complain because others can now buy the best of the best and compete against them, its laughable. Rooney just lately and RVP are the highest wage earners and George Best was the first Â£1000 a week earner, the first to break the Â£10,00 per week bracket was John Barnes and the first to break the Â£50,000 mould was Roy Keane, Sol Cambell was the first to break Â£100k per week and so it goes on.
		
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ive said n I previous posts that I'm not against sugar daddies, but what I would say that goes againt your points above, is that those clubs used self generated profits. 

So whilst others have spent, it's not been splurged so rapidly as Chelsea and City. Or PSG and Monaco.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 28, 2014)

Fish said:



			But that's always been around also pro rata, the 1st Â£1m player back in the 70's, the first Â£10,000 in 1928 (Arsenal), how much was that in those days? Man Utd and even Liverpool have led the front in breaking the records on Transfer deals and wages and now they complain because others can now buy the best of the best and compete against them, its laughable. Rooney just lately and RVP are the highest wage earners and George Best was the first Â£1000 a week earner, the first to break the Â£10,00 per week bracket was John Barnes and the first to break the Â£50,000 mould was Roy Keane, Sol Cambell was the first to break Â£100k per week and so it goes on.
		
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Keep peddling that poor argument, Fish.

You are half correct â€“Liverpool and Man U did have expensive players, did have the odd player on megabucks, but all along they were self-sustaining. Liverpool and Man U (pre-OTextensive rebuild) in the 70-90â€™s played in front of crowds that were maybeonly 20-30% more than other big club supports such as Newcastle, Villa, Spurs,Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton and City. This reflected the odd superstar wage or transfer fee.

Chelsea have far and away bought success, taken far too much advantage of the loan system, to the point where a Belgian club employee accused Chelsea of ordering them not to win the league. They have been the graveyard of players careers who they bought to stop others getting them and basically just thrown money at everything. 

City have done the same but with a bit more regard. They have invested most of the money into their own playing staff only and at least put that out on the pitch, and played some wonderful to boot. They also show a little bit of humility, although whether that lasts, I donâ€™t know.

Chelsea are crass not class,and to spend hundreds of millions on a team that end up playing anti-football like that is poor. 

Keep trying that argument,but in neutrals eyes, trying to say that Chelsea did what Lâ€™pool and Man U have done is utter rubbish.

Maybe do a poll on here.....:thup:


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## pbrown7582 (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



Keep peddling that poor argument, Fish.

You are half correct â€“Liverpool and Man U did have expensive players, did have the odd player on megabucks, but all along they were self-sustaining. Liverpool and Man U (pre-OTextensive rebuild) in the 70-90â€™s played in front of crowds that were maybeonly 20-30% more than other big club supports such as Newcastle, Villa, Spurs,Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton and City. This reflected the odd superstar wage or transfer fee.

Chelsea have far and away bought success, taken far too much advantage of the loan system, to the point where a *DUTCH* club employee accused Chelsea of ordering them not to win the league. *and not qualify for champs league under any circumstance* They have been the graveyard of players careers who they bought to stop others getting them and basically just thrown money at everything. 

City have done the same but with a bit more regard. They have invested most of the money into their own playing staff only and at least put that out on the pitch, and played some wonderful to boot. They also show a little bit of humility, although whether that lasts, I donâ€™t know.

Chelsea are crass not class,and to spend hundreds of millions on a team that end up playing anti-football like that is poor. 

Keep trying that argument,but in neutrals eyes, trying to say that Chelsea did what Lâ€™pool and Man U have done is utter rubbish.

Maybe do a poll on here.....:thup:

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tweaked but obviously its only alleged ........ :rofl:


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 28, 2014)

pbrown7582 said:



			tweaked but obviously its only alleged ........ :rofl:
		
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 Dutch/Belgian they all speak funny and have strong lager - maybe that's the correlation.


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## dufferman (Apr 28, 2014)

I didn't watch the game, but a win is a win. Who cares how they got it? 

As for football being entertaining... for a Chelsea fan the game yesterday was, so...?


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## pbrown7582 (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Dutch/Belgian they all speak funny and have strong lager - maybe that's the correlation.

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So do Geordies but they ain't going any closer to the champions league than we are this year!


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## c1973 (Apr 28, 2014)

I'm not a big fan of Jose's defensive tactics, it ain't good to watch but it is a discipline of the game, and is very difficult to do well btw. Most teams trying to park the bus usually lose by the odd goal. 

The only thing that I find annoying is that Jose is proclaimed to be a tactical genius for pulling it off, whereas when Walter Smith used these tactics to get to the UEFA final it was labelled anti football. 

Not good to watch, but credit is due for snuffing out the Liverpool attack which possesses arguably the best player around at the moment.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 28, 2014)

[




			QUOTE=Hacker Khan;1052834 I think most neutrals (if such a thing exists) would like to see Liverpool win the league this year instead of teams with an unlimited supply of money available to them.
		
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[/QUOTE]

You have been reading the Daily Mail again haven't you!

Just because the journos, many of whom are of an age to have grown up as Liverpool supporters, tell us that Liverpool are the people's choice doesn't make it true.

I am completely neutral and know others like me who have no real preference but perhaps lean towards Man City for the type of football they play and the fact that for years they have been in the shadows of their not so noisy neighbours.

Also many of my age will remember the '70s & early '80s when Liverpool were dominant and some (not all) of their fans were as obnoxious as some (again not all) Man U fans have been more recently.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 28, 2014)

Pretty much sums it up


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## Hacker Khan (Apr 28, 2014)

Birchy said:



			I want Liverpool to win it as well but they have spent a fair few quid along the way. They aren't exactly paupers :rofl:

He gets away with talking crap because his record speaks for itself. You tell him he is talking crap and he can just say "Look what I have won" Argument over 

FWIW I don't like it when he has a pop at officials as well and that's the same for anyone who does it. sometimes when your so fired up you just cant help it  He isn't the only one who does it. Wenger and Fergie did/do it loads.
		
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I know no team are paupers really as it's all relative.  It's just to me it seems that Chelsea's and Man Cities recent success has mostly been on the back of some sugar daddy pumping in millions.  Nothing illegal about it and fair play to them and that's the way most sport is.  But you could argue that the initial success of teams like Liverpool and Man U was not bought, although after that they had a lot of money to buy the best players through the success of the team.

And also you can talk crap and have won a lot at the same time, they are not mutually exclusive.  In fact Jose is a shining example of that.

Also agree everyone has a pop at officials and they are all just as bad at blaming them to deflect mistakes them or their team have made. It'd just the weasily semi sarcastic way he did it that rubs me up.  And with Jose I get the impression that it is all well planned in advance, he probably has a list of comments written down that he can call on, depending on the situation .


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## Hacker Khan (Apr 28, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			You have been reading the Daily Mail again haven't you!

Just because the journos, many of whom are of an age to have grown up as Liverpool supporters, tell us that Liverpool are the people's choice doesn't make it true.

I am completely neutral and know others like me who have no real preference but perhaps lean towards Man City for the type of football they play and the fact that for years they have been in the shadows of their not so noisy neighbours.

Also many of my age will remember the '70s & early '80s when Liverpool were dominant and some (not all) of their fans were as obnoxious as some (again not all) Man U fans have been more recently.
		
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Fair comment about the Daily Mail, I do read it religiously and love its perspective on most things, so some of that has probably rubbed off on me.

As for the type of football being played then surely Liverpool have been playing as attractive attacking free flowing football as anyone over the last few months?

Also I said neutral fans. And by your comment on Liverpool fans being obnoxious then surely that disqualifies you from being neutral?


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 28, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



View attachment 10198

Pretty much sums it up
		
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 That's not fair - there are two queens on the right hand side, a drama queen and a normal one.......


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## bladeplayer (Apr 28, 2014)

Terrible game of football , Chelsea did exactly what they had to do , Liverpool didnt , end result , Chelsea win ,

In my uninformed humble opinion Liverpool needed to get down the wings and make the bus turn and face its own goals , they didnt they chipped aimless balls into the box , a bit like the Fulham v Man U game (i think) ..
To me Liverpool looked nervous its like there was one more door to the holy grail and instead of just kicking the door down and going and getting it the fumbled around searching for the key or were waiting fr someone to leave the door open for them ..

I did think City would struggle at Everton , we will need Jags or Distin (no chance) back if  Alcaraz & Stones are centre backs i see only a city win , hope im wrong ..

P.s not sure of Jose celebration or carry on after the win , if it had given Chelsea a genuine chance of winning the title i would understand it , some times silence and in action shows more class 

But just my opinion of it all


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## Birchy (Apr 28, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			I know no team are paupers really as it's all relative.  It's just to me it seems that Chelsea's and Man Cities recent success has mostly been on the back of some sugar daddy pumping in millions.  Nothing illegal about it and fair play to them and that's the way most sport is.  But you could argue that the initial success of teams like Liverpool and Man U was not bought, although after that they had a lot of money to buy the best players through the success of the team.

And also you can talk crap and have won a lot at the same time, they are not mutually exclusive.  In fact Jose is a shining example of that.

Also agree everyone has a pop at officials and they are all just as bad at blaming them to deflect mistakes them or their team have made. It'd just the weasily semi sarcastic way he did it that rubs me up.  And with Jose I get the impression that it is all well planned in advance, he probably has a list of comments written down that he can call on, depending on the situation .
		
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They have all spent a shedload but some just quicker than others. These clubs that's supposedly didn't buy initial success all paid top dollar compared to other clubs and spent more than everyone else so its pretty much always been the richest have the best chance.

Well try and tell somebody who has won so much that they don't know what they are talking about. I hope you have got plenty of verbal firepower lined up because you would end up looking an idiot 

I think all the managers have got a textbook full of bull that the trawl out from time to time. Jose seems to act it out best though as it winds more people up. Fergie was a master at it too. I suppose the point is to get people wound up about it so it looks like its worked


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## bluewolf (Apr 28, 2014)

Slightly OT, but out of interest, how much of a Premier League Clubs income now comes from the Neutral/Armchair fan via Sky/BT/BBC/ITV etc?


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## Fish (Apr 28, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Slightly OT, but out of interest, how much of a Premier League Clubs income now comes from the Neutral/Armchair fan via Sky/BT/BBC/ITV etc?
		
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Depends on their success, the more success the more coverage the greater overall commercial revenue, however, the main club that bucks that tend is Arsenal, if their 'bums on seats' income reduced, their not as active commercially as a lot of other premier clubs in the top half.


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## Foxholer (Apr 28, 2014)

Fish said:



			Depends on their success, the more success the more coverage the greater overall commercial revenue, however, the main club that bucks that tend is Arsenal, if their 'bums on seats' income reduced, *their* not as active commercially as a lot of other premier clubs in the top half.
		
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Last year, in mid-table, it was about 5-600K per televised match and about 750k for each place. Higher up places were (even) more valuable and they tended to get more TV spots too - if they were also successful the year before.

I can see a potential CMAC there/their/they're campaign too!


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			That's not fair - there are two queens on the right hand side, a drama queen and a normal one.......

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:rofl: I'll give you that on.


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## bluewolf (Apr 28, 2014)

Fish said:



			Depends on their success, the more success the more coverage the greater overall commercial revenue, however, the main club that bucks that tend is Arsenal, if their 'bums on seats' income reduced, their not as active commercially as a lot of other premier clubs in the top half.
		
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Now I'm as understanding as anyone with regards to the entertainment factor of Football games.. Some of my best memories have been about games that could only be described as "Wars of attrition." But, when the TV rights are such a big factor in the success of the modern game, then a certain level of excitement has to be provided for the "Neutral Home Viewer".

I know several people (myself included) who have cancelled their Sky/BT subscription due to a certain amount of boredom with Elite level Football. I can't tell you the last Champions League game I watched, or even the last Premier League game (that didn't include Wigan Ath).


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## Papas1982 (Apr 28, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Now I'm as understanding as anyone with regards to the entertainment factor of Football games.. Some of my best memories have been about games that could only be described as "Wars of attrition." But, when the TV rights are such a big factor in the success of the modern game, then a certain level of excitement has to be provided for the "Neutral Home Viewer".

I know several people (myself included) who have cancelled their Sky/BT subscription due to a certain amount of boredom with Elite level Football. I can't tell you the last Champions League game I watched, or even the last Premier League game (that didn't include Wigan Ath).
		
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Im really struggling to understand this argument that the products got worse. People are saying that there's not enough goals in games and goals make it interesting.

it may be if interest to know that since the prem went to 20'teams,so the highest total of goals was 1066. That was in 2011/12. The minimum was 931. So 130 goals swing from best to worst. So on average teams score 46 goals and 53. That's hardly a massive difference.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 28, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Fair comment about the Daily Mail, I do read it religiously and love its perspective on most things, so some of that has probably rubbed off on me.

As for the type of football being played then surely Liverpool have been playing as attractive attacking free flowing football as anyone over the last few months?

Also I said neutral fans. And by your comment on Liverpool fans being obnoxious then surely that disqualifies you from being neutral?

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Completely neutral as I referred to a minority of their fans of 30-40 years ago, which simply means that I do not buy into the theory that all neutrals love Liverpool anymore than I believe that everyone other than their own fans hate Man U or Chelsea or whoever.

As to style of play I wholeheartedly agree that Liverpool have been a joy to watch this season but then to me so have Man City who have also been, at the same time, a little more solid looking at the back. I would, however, add that Rodgers has done a masterful job in coaxing the performances he has from Skirtl and dropping Gerrard deeper has made them much tighter as a unit.


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## USER1999 (Apr 28, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Im really struggling to understand this argument that the products got worse. People are saying that there's not enough goals in games and goals make it interesting.

it may be if interest to know that since the prem went to 20'teams,so the highest total of goals was 1066. That was in 2011/12. The minimum was 931. So 130 goals swing from best to worst. So on average teams score 46 goals and 53. That's hardly a massive difference.
		
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You can have an entertaining nil nil.

Or a bore fest 2 nil.

I know what I'd rather watch. It's not just about goals that make footy exciting.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

Fish said:



			But that's always been around also pro rata, the 1st Â£1m player back in the 70's, the first Â£10,000 in 1928 (Arsenal), how much was that in those days? Man Utd and even Liverpool have led the front in breaking the records on Transfer deals and wages and now they complain because others can now buy the best of the best and compete against them, its laughable. Rooney just lately and RVP are the highest wage earners and George Best was the first Â£1000 a week earner, the first to break the Â£10,00 per week bracket was John Barnes and the first to break the Â£50,000 mould was Roy Keane, Sol Cambell was the first to break Â£100k per week and so it goes on.
		
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In ten years ( since Abramovich arrived ) Chelsea have spent nearly 900 mil in transfer fees

The previous ten years Chelsea spent just under Â£100 mil 



That Â£900 mil isn't money earned - that's money from a oil sugar daddy that has given you success - before Roman arrived you win a few cups but never seriously challenged for a title or CL - the money from Abramovich has allowed Chelsea their success.  Bates was extremely worried financially for Chelsea before Abramovich arrived 

You bought quick success like no other clubs had previously done - Liverpool , Man UTD and others earned their money through success , that success came through not just buying whole squads 

Since then City have done the exact same thing in the UK and abroad PSG , Monaco and to lesser extent Malaga. 

I can't see anything positive in sugar daddies spending hundreds of millions each summer - it becomes a closed shop in the transfer market - we saw it with both Willian and Salah - Chelsea just came along - offered bigger wages and off they go. 

But it's clear as day that both Chelsea and City have purchased success with billionaire sugar daddies - without them they wouldn't have had the success they have had


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In ten years ( since Abramovich arrived ) Chelsea have spent nearly 900 mil in transfer fees

The previous ten years Chelsea spent just under Â£100 mil 



That Â£900 mil isn't money earned - that's money from a oil sugar daddy that has given you success - before Roman arrived you win a few cups but never seriously challenged for a title or CL - the money from Abramovich has allowed Chelsea their success.  Bates was extremely worried financially for Chelsea before Abramovich arrived 

You bought quick success like no other clubs had previously done - Liverpool , Man UTD and others earned their money through success , that success came through not just buying whole squads 

Since then City have done the exact same thing in the UK and abroad PSG , Monaco and to lesser extent Malaga. 

I can't see anything positive in sugar daddies spending hundreds of millions each summer - it becomes a closed shop in the transfer market - we saw it with both Willian and Salah - Chelsea just came along - offered bigger wages and off they go. 

But it's clear as day that both Chelsea and City have purchased success with billionaire sugar daddies - without them they wouldn't have had the success they have had
		
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But they have got them so either get use to it or just keep banging on about it every 2 minutes. Pretty sure I know which you'll do


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## bluewolf (Apr 28, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Im really struggling to understand this argument that the products got worse. People are saying that there's not enough goals in games and goals make it interesting.

it may be if interest to know that since the prem went to 20'teams,so the highest total of goals was 1066. That was in 2011/12. The minimum was 931. So 130 goals swing from best to worst. So on average teams score 46 goals and 53. That's hardly a massive difference.
		
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You know what they say about statistics don't you? 
As you have access to these stats, can you break them down into televised games only, and prioritize those games that include teams who were in the top 6 at the time and therefore playing for a decent prize. It might also help to make a different list for European games, with a bias towards the later stages, especially including English teams..

Or, you could take anecdotal evidence that suggests that there is an awful lot of games on TV that may be quality viewing for those with a vested interest, but contain very little to attract newer viewers to the Sport..


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			But they have got them so either get use to it or just keep banging on about it every 2 minutes. Pretty sure I know which you'll do 

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It's a discussion where points will be made - you can either contribute with something worthwhile or just ignore the thread :thup:


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's a discussion where points will be made - you can either contribute with something worthwhile or just ignore the thread :thup:
		
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Fair enough mate,just gets boring reading the same posts.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Fair enough mate,just gets boring reading the same posts.
		
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Could say the exact same thing about your constant posts about Suarez - gets boring reading the same thing.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:






			I can't see anything positive in sugar daddies spending hundreds of millions each summer - it becomes a closed shop in the transfer market - we saw it with both Willian and Salah - Chelsea just came along - offered bigger wages and off they go. 

But it's clear as day that both Chelsea and City have purchased success with billionaire sugar daddies - without them they wouldn't have had the success they have had[/QU
		
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OTE]

The point you make is true but what is also true is that without the billionaires the EPL would be even more dull than it is today as there would have remained only three teams with the necessary financial muscle to win the title.

At least with two more sides in the mix it is a little more exciting.

In any event they appear to be here to stay and we have to learn to live with it. Self interest being what it is means that the "haves" never have given a toss for the "have nots".
		
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## Slime (Apr 28, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			What's wrong with Modern football is money
		
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Does that rule also apply to other sports awash with money such as tennis, golf, boxing, snooker, American Football, baseball, major league hockey, basketball ......................................... you get my point.



c1973 said:



			I'm not a big fan of Jose's defensive tactics, it ain't good to watch but it is a discipline of the game, and is very difficult to do well btw. Most teams trying to park the bus usually lose by the odd goal. 

The only thing that I find annoying is that Jose is proclaimed to be a tactical genius for pulling it off, whereas when Walter Smith used these tactics to get to the UEFA final it was labelled anti football. 

Click to expand...

And when used against Chelsea, by West Ham, big Sam was slaughtered for it by Mourinho himself! What a ....


*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

MetalMickie said:





Liverpoolphil said:



			OTE]

The point you make is true but what is also true is that without the billionaires the EPL would be even more dull than it is today as there would have remained only three teams with the necessary financial muscle to win the title.

At least with two more sides in the mix it is a little more exciting.

In any event they appear to be here to stay and we have to learn to live with it. Self interest being what it is means that the "haves" never have given a toss for the "have nots".
		
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The EPL was still exciting before the sugar daddies arrived 

Since they have arrived only 3 teams have won the Prem - the two sugar daddy teams and the Mancs.

If both City and Chelsea spend big again this summer then they will stretch ahead more than likely from the other teams 

Being realistic there will prob be only two teams in with a shout of winning in the future -City and Chelsea 

They both should have been miles ahead of everyone this season but for two new managers arriving into the prem

If I was being realistic I can put money that this time next year you will see a straight fight out between Chelsea and City with Liverpool , Arsenal and UTD fighting it out for 3rd and 4th and good 10 -15 points behind.
		
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## Papas1982 (Apr 28, 2014)

murphthemog said:



			You can have an entertaining nil nil.

Or a bore fest 2 nil.

I know what I'd rather watch. It's not just about goals that make footy exciting.[
that is true, but surely over a course of a season things even out. I find it hard to see how the pl has become less exciting when goals have stayed the same. I personally think people are remembering the bad  as it's easy to moan. Yes Chelsea game against pool may have appeared defensive but it wasn't boring. Liverpool simply weren't good enough to score. The same Chelsea also spanked arsenal and beat city with a great display. 

I think the teams may be more guarded as so much money is in prem now. But I don't think that it's any worse than ever before. I r,ember many Wimbledon and Bolton games in last 15 years that I'd rather have spent watching paint dry.
		
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## Papas1982 (Apr 28, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			You know what they say about statistics don't you? 
As you have access to these stats, can you break them down into televised games only, and prioritize those games that include teams who were in the top 6 at the time and therefore playing for a decent prize. It might also help to make a different list for European games, with a bias towards the later stages, especially including English teams..

Or, you could take anecdotal evidence that suggests that there is an awful lot of games on TV that may be quality viewing for those with a vested interest, but contain very little to attract newer viewers to the Sport..[/

yeah stats can be manipulated to show anything. They can also show a truth but people hide behind one little phrase when they don't have a way to validly counter it except make a funny. 

Having been a season ticket holder for 14 years, I don't think the game has got any worse at all. TV games are a lottery, there's no guarantee that the game of the weekend will be the one shown. 

The  main barometer for games is generally goals, yeah you have exceptional 0-0's but generally nobody bemoans a 4-3. So if as many games as ever are being scored I fail to see how the product has become worse. 

Orher than people over reacting to the fact that a tactician beat Rodgers.
		
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## Pin-seeker (Apr 28, 2014)

It's not like it's a big secret how much City & Chelsea spend. But it's pretty much the same for all the Big teams that compete in the CL. Man utd,Real,Barca,Bayern,PSG,Monaco...... It's just part of the modern game. It's not my money so It really doesn't bother me tbh.


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## Snelly (Apr 28, 2014)

Another fascinating, childish, petty squabble over something that you think means the world but really, means nothing. 

Premier League football is a decency vacuum.  The enlightened can see this.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 28, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Another fascinating, childish, petty squabble over something that you think means the world but really, means nothing. 

Premier League football is a decency vacuum.  The enlightened can see this.
		
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Can you see us all the way down here from your high horse.........


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			It's not like it's a big secret how much City & Chelsea spend. But it's pretty much the same for all the Big teams that compete in the CL. Man utd,Real,Barca,Bayern,PSG,Monaco...... It's just part of the modern game. It's not my money so It really doesn't bother me tbh.
		
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It's not the same at all for the other clubs - no one has spent the amount Chelsea have in the last ten years - Man UTD it's about Â£400mil ( half of what Chelsea have spent ) 

PSG and Monaco have been on par for the last 2/3 years 

Madrid have a blow out every couple of seasons normally when a new manager arrives 

Barcelona normally spend big on the odd player but nowhere near the other teams , Bayern are about the same as the Mancs 

But no one comes close it consistent 100 mil a year spending like Chelsea have over the last 10 years. 

It is part of the modern game and it's something that UEFA are trying to curb hence the introduction of FFP and currently clubs under investigation ( including PSG and City ) - so hopefully it won't be here to stay.

Those 4 clubs hang on the whim of one person - Malaga have already seen what happens when that one man says he has had enough.


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## Fish (Apr 28, 2014)

Slime said:



			And when used against Chelsea, by West Ham, big Sam was slaughtered for it by Mourinho himself! What a ....


*Slime*.
		
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Huge difference when set up for counter attack football which was achieved against Liverpool and just sitting deep with no thought of pushing forward, the donkey spent more time in the 18yd box than outfield that day! Chelsea provided the 1st shots on target, the 1st saves, 1st corner and so on, quite simply Liverpool couldn't or didn't change their approach or tactics even though they weren't working right from the off! Liverpool had no plan B which will be their downfall in Europe if they don't find one.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Another fascinating, childish, petty squabble over something that you think means the world but really, means nothing. 

Premier League football is a decency vacuum.  The enlightened can see this.
		
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Yet you still felt you needed to comment


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## Snelly (Apr 28, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Can you see us all the way down here from your high horse.........
		
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I am too busy watching Sky Sports News for another world shattering story of total insignificance.  

Thankfully, it is near the end of the chavball season.....  What will you all write about on a golf forum then?????


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## Snelly (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yet you still felt you needed to comment 

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Yes.  Compelled through irritation.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:





MetalMickie said:



			The EPL was still exciting before the sugar daddies arrived 

Since they have arrived only 3 teams have won the Prem - the two sugar daddy teams and the Mancs
		
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How many won it before their arrival. Man U, Arsenal and a one-off from Blackburn who, in the context of the day, bought the title. Not all that exciting!

As for the future I am not certain that Abramovich or the Abu Dhabi sheiks will continue to throw unlimited resources at their clubs without there being some significant progress towards self-sufficiency.
		
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## Pin-seeker (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's not the same at all for the other clubs - no one has spent the amount Chelsea have in the last ten years - Man UTD it's about Â£400mil ( half of what Chelsea have spent ) 

PSG and Monaco have been on par for the last 2/3 years 

Madrid have a blow out every couple of seasons normally when a new manager arrives 

Barcelona normally spend big on the odd player but nowhere near the other teams , Bayern are about the same as the Mancs 

But no one comes close it consistent 100 mil a year spending like Chelsea have over the last 10 years. 

It is part of the modern game and it's something that UEFA are trying to curb hence the introduction of FFP and currently clubs under investigation ( including PSG and City ) - so hopefully it won't be here to stay.

Those 4 clubs hang on the whim of one person - Malaga have already seen what happens when that one man says he has had enough.
		
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I'm sure Uefa will sort it out & then maybe all teams will do it the right way,the Liverpool way :whoo:


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

Fish said:



			Huge difference when set up for counter attack football which was achieved against Liverpool and just sitting deep with no thought of pushing forward, the donkey spent more time in the 18yd box than outfield that day! Chelsea provided the 1st shots on target, the 1st saves, 1st corner and so on, quite simply Liverpool couldn't or didn't change their approach or tactics even though they weren't working right from the off! Liverpool had no plan B which will be their downfall in Europe if they don't find one.
		
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Well we had the first corner and you had the first shot from long range 

You sat deep - hence the pics around twitter with you having all 11 men in the box at times ( and not from set pieces ) 

It wasn't much different from the West Ham game - it worked for West Ham and it worked for Chelsea but let's not kid yourself that it was much different.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 28, 2014)

Snelly said:



			I am too busy watching Sky Sports News for another world shattering story of total insignificance.  

Thankfully, it is near the end of the chavball season.....  What will you all write about on a golf forum then?????
		
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In the out of bounds section? Hmmm maybe anything non golf related so the golf only forum members won't see it unless they want to point score......

of course there's a wc this summer too so I'm sure we can prolong your need for feeling smug and better than us mere footy fans.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I'm sure Uefa will sort it out & then maybe all teams will do it the right way,the Liverpool way :whoo:
		
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Remember what I said earlier about worthwhile comments 

When did anyone ever mention the right way being the Liverpool way ?

I guess those sort of comments only come out when a few facts dismiss a few myths


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 28, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Another fascinating, childish, petty squabble over something that you think means the world but really, means nothing. 

Premier League football is a decency vacuum.  The enlightened can see this.
		
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Cannot quite see how you would know what the enlightened can see as none of your posts have ever suggested any level of enlightenment on your part.

As has often been said if you think any thread might be, to your eyes, boring then ignore it and move onto something that is more to your taste.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Yes.  Compelled through irritation.
		
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Maybe it's far easier to be compelled to ignore the thread 

You knew what the thread would be about when you read the title - yet you still read it knowing it's going to be people talking about football ?


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Remember what I said earlier about worthwhile comments 

When did anyone ever mention the right way being the Liverpool way ?

I guess those sort of comments only come out when a few facts dismiss a few myths
		
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Ok boss I'll bare that in mind :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Ok boss I'll bare that in mind :thup:
		
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If only that was true


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## Papas1982 (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well we had the first corner and you had the first shot from long range 

You sat deep - hence the pics around twitter with you having all 11 men in the box at times ( and not from set pieces ) 

It wasn't much different from the West Ham game - it worked for West Ham and it worked for Chelsea but let's not kid yourself that it was much different.
		
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Chelsea scored two goals, west ham didn't score any. Big difference there. 

Maybe be chelsea did use a couple of buses, but I'd say they lane hogged instead of parked them. 

Much like most bug teams will do in away games of significance, to not lose was important to win maybe. But Chelsea still had intent. That's why he played wingers with a bit if pace.


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## Rooter (Apr 28, 2014)

Snelly said:



			I am too busy watching Sky Sports News for another world shattering story of total insignificance.  

Thankfully, it is near the end of the chavball season.....  What will you all write about on a golf forum then?????
		
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Don't worry Snelly, its a world cup year!! Yay!


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## bluewolf (Apr 28, 2014)

Papas1982 said:





bluewolf said:



			You know what they say about statistics don't you? 
As you have access to these stats, can you break them down into televised games only, and prioritize those games that include teams who were in the top 6 at the time and therefore playing for a decent prize. It might also help to make a different list for European games, with a bias towards the later stages, especially including English teams..

Or, you could take anecdotal evidence that suggests that there is an awful lot of games on TV that may be quality viewing for those with a vested interest, but contain very little to attract newer viewers to the Sport..
		
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yeah stats can be manipulated to show anything. They can also show a truth but people hide behind one little phrase when they don't have a way to validly counter it except make a funny. 

Having been a season ticket holder for 14 years, I don't think the game has got any worse at all. TV games are a lottery, there's no guarantee that the game of the weekend will be the one shown. 

The  main barometer for games is generally goals, yeah you have exceptional 0-0's but generally nobody bemoans a 4-3. So if as many games as ever are being scored I fail to see how the product has become worse. 

Orher than people over reacting to the fact that a tactician beat Rodgers.
		
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You do take these Football threads very seriously don't you? A cynic may think that you were employed in the game in some sort of PR/TV role..

Anyhoo, I did counter your stats by asking you to provide more relevant stats to the actual argument..

The point I was making was that the game may have become more technically excellent at the top level, but that this excellence may not be something that would appeal to the part time fan who wants to watch exciting Sport on TV. Several other sports are more easily accessible on a part time basis. For a sport that is so reliant on TV viewers (and it's not the only one obviously), then the onus is on the teams to provide excitement in one form or another.

Edit - I look forward to some informative posts on this thread as it is interesting, but I'll probably bow out of posting as I should have known better than to get involved really.. A lot of threads on this forum are tending towards acrimony and petty squabbling and I get enough of that elsewhere..


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## Papas1982 (Apr 28, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			You do take these Football threads very seriously don't you? A cynic may think that you were employed in the game in some sort of PR/TV role..

Anyhoo, I did counter your stats by asking you to provide more relevant stats to the actual argument..

The point I was making was that the game may have become more technically excellent at the top level, but that this excellence may not be something that would appeal to the part time fan who wants to watch exciting Sport on TV. Several other sports are more easily accessible on a part time basis. For a sport that is so reliant on TV viewers (and it's not the only one obviously), then the onus is on the teams to provide excitement in one form or another.

Edit - I look forward to some informative posts on this thread as it is interesting, but I'll probably bow out of posting as I should have known better than to get involved really.. A lot of threads on this forum are tending towards acrimony and petty squabbling and I get enough of that elsewhere..
		
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Unfortunately my job is much more mundane than working in football I'm afraid. 
All though I don't agree that the game is any more boring, I can kinda understand your point on an entertainment front. The problem is, end of season or semi finals have so much riding on them that results matter most. I'm sure someone can recall plenty if dull games at start if season but as they're deemed insignificant they haven't received the thread this has. 

Re your request for extra stats, I simply did a quick google and found figures that suggested the product was very much the same. Finding all the details you requested obvsiouslg would have been far more time consuming and still inconclusive as the entertainment is purely people's opinions. But by the same token, I don't see how you can claim it's less entertaining based in your opinion but need me to prove it instead of having the opinio it's the same.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

Understand that again Maureen didn't shake a fellow managers hand after the game. At least he is consistent I suppose


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## Fish (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Understand that again Maureen didn't shake a fellow managers hand after the game. At least he is consistent I suppose
		
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You clutch to this like your historic comfort blanket but its obviously nothing or the press would be all over it, wouldn't they? There is nothing to say that they can't arrange to shake hands afterwards in the tunnel or in the managers office whilst sharing a bottle of red, it doesn't have to be open and in public view, or is it in the rules they have to? I don't think so. The old wife is creeping to the fore again, at first you were gracious in defeat and now old Phillip has returned to pour unjustified scorn :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

Fish said:



			You clutch to this like your historic comfort blanket but its obviously nothing or the press would be all over it, wouldn't they? There is nothing to say that they can't arrange to shake hands afterwards in the tunnel or in the managers office whilst sharing a bottle of red, it doesn't have to be open and in public view, or is it in the rules they have to? I don't think so. The old wife is creeping to the fore again, at first you were gracious in defeat and now old Phillip has returned to pour unjustified scorn :rofl:
		
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Well BR has already said that he went to shake hands with Maureen but he ran off down the tunnel and there was no after match drink as Maureen also refused that. Like I said he is disrespectful but at least he is consistent. There are some things money can't buy. 

Sorry if that doesn't go along with your theory - it's ok Fish - most know what he is like anyway :thup:


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## chrisd (Apr 28, 2014)

I've been to 15 home games this season and watched my team off and on when I can since 1965, this season I've seen some of the worlds best players and I've absolutely loved it! I suspect that most complainants of the premiership are armchair fans where you font get the real picture and can't sample the atmosphere.

Yesterday's game was a bit sterile as we didn't need anything from the game for the first time this season, but to see the likes of Toure, Nasri,Milner et al is why you get a season ticket as is, beating Chelsea and winning 5 games in a row. Football in the Premiership is really awesome and I'm sorry if anyone just can't see that


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

chrisd said:



			I've been to 15 home games this season and watched my team off and on when I can since 1965, this season I've seen some of the worlds best players and I've absolutely loved it! I suspect that most complainants of the premiership are armchair fans where you font get the real picture and can't sample the atmosphere.

Yesterday's game was a bit sterile as we didn't need anything from the game for the first time this season, but to see the likes of Toure, Nasri,Milner et al is why you get a season ticket as is, beating Chelsea and winning 5 games in a row. Football in the Premiership is really awesome and I'm sorry if anyone just can't see that
		
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I would suspect that if Fulham were up near the top of the table the entertainment value might increase for the Fulham fans

Unlucky yesterday - was a good game to watch


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well BR has already said that he went to shake hands with Maureen but he ran off down the tunnel and there was no after match drink as Maureen also refused that. Like I said he is disrespectful but at least he is consistent. There are some things money can't buy. 

Sorry if that doesn't go along with your theory - it's ok Fish - most know what he is like anyway :thup:
		
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Perhaps he didn't want to hang around to hear Rodgers' sour grapes outburst.

Hand shakes, either before or after games, really are meaningless as they are very often insincere and rarely convey to the onlooker any sense of respect between the protagonists

Either way it is unrealistic to expect classy behaviour from any manager in the aftermath of a highly charged match.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Perhaps he didn't want to hang around to hear Rodgers' sour grapes outburst.

Hand shakes, either before or after games, really are meaningless as they are very often insincere and rarely convey to the onlooker any sense of respect between the protagonists

Either way it is unrealistic to expect classy behaviour from any manager in the aftermath of a highly charged match.
		
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Most managers appear to manage to behave in a respectful manner afterwards regardless of victory 

And not sure you would exactly call what Rodgers said as an "outburst" - he gave his view on the tactics and congratulated them on their win :thup:


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Most managers appear to manage to behave in a respectful manner afterwards regardless of victory 

And not sure you would exactly call what Rodgers said as an "outburst" - he gave his view on the tactics and congratulated them on their win :thup:
		
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As I said, not to this onlooker. A perfunctory touching of hands rather than a genuine handshake plus rarely , if ever, any eye contact does not suggest much respect to me.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Most managers appear to manage to behave in a respectful manner afterwards regardless of victory 

And not sure you would exactly call what Rodgers said as an "outburst" - he gave his view on the tactics and congratulated them on their win :thup:
		
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:rofl: Rodgers threw his teddy out. Claims only one team played to win the game, but Chelsea won the game
Obviously Rodgers wasn't listening in class when Jose was teaching the art of defending. 
Rodgers was very naive the way he went into the game,a draw would have been enough but he went out all guns blazing. 
Also very unsporting of Liverpool not to give the ball back to Chelsea after it was kicked out for a injured player. Not really surprising tho.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			:rofl: Rodgers threw his teddy out. Claims only one team played to win the game, but Chelsea won the game
Obviously Rodgers wasn't listening in class when Jose was teaching the art of defending. 
Rodgers was very naive the way he went into the game,a draw would have been enough but he went out all guns blazing. 
Also very unsporting of Liverpool not to give the ball back to Chelsea after it was kicked out for a injured player. Not really surprising tho.
		
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Think if you watch the post match press conference there is no "teddies" being thrown out just a view on the game in a calm and respectful manner ( I know that must be hard for you to understand when a manager acts that way ) 

Yep Rodgers went out to win the game - got no problem with that at all. It's helped us challenge for the title this season be above Chelsea and City's multi million pound squads. Will look forward to him continuing the same tactics of looking to attack and win the games - it's refreshing and great to see. 

Who was injured and when did you kick the ball out ? Sorry but you will have to remind me about that ?


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Think if you watch the post match press conference there is no "teddies" being thrown out just a view on the game in a calm and respectful manner ( I know that must be hard for you to understand when a manager acts that way ) 

Yep Rodgers went out to win the game - got no problem with that at all. It's helped us challenge for the title this season be above Chelsea and City's multi million pound squads. Will look forward to him continuing the same tactics of looking to attack and win the games - it's refreshing and great to see. 

Who was injured and when did you kick the ball out ? Sorry but you will have to remind me about that ?
		
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Like I said Naive. An experienced manager would have set his team up not to get beat. 
Think you need to watch the game again Phillip,maybe without the Rose tinted glasses.


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 28, 2014)

Not read all the pages but I would expect a team who are accused of 'parking the bus' to gain a 0-0 draw and not win 2-0.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Like I said Naive. An experienced manager would have set his team up not to get beat. 
Think you need to watch the game again Phillip,maybe without the Rose tinted glasses.
		
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And as I said I have no problems with his tactics and look forward to him continuing with those same tactics in the future. Prefer seeing the team set up to win - refreshing 

Not bad for an inexperienced manager to be sat a top the prem table 

So who was the inured player ? Had a quick look through the transcripts and no mention of anything like you suggest ? Can't remember any mass booing from the Chelsea fans ? Or are you just making it up ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Not read all the pages but I would expect a team who are accused of 'parking the bus' to gain a 0-0 draw and not win 2-0.
		
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At times the score doesn't always reflect the pattern of play :thup:


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And as I said I have no problems with his tactics and look forward to him continuing with those same tactics in the future. Prefer seeing the team set up to win - refreshing 

Not bad for an inexperienced manager to be sat a top the prem table 

So who was the inured player ? Had a quick look through the transcripts and no mention of anything like you suggest ? Can't remember any mass booing from the Chelsea fans ? Or are you just making it up ?
		
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You actually looked through the transcripts anyone else & I'd think they were joking.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 28, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Not read all the pages but I would expect a team who are accused of 'parking the bus' to gain a 0-0 draw and not win 2-0.
		
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Tbf mate they could still be playing now & Liverpool wouldn't have scored. Gerrard just thrashing at every ball & Suarez looked far from been in the Messi/Ronaldo league.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			You actually looked through the transcripts anyone else & I'd think they were joking.
		
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So who was the player ? Or a case of telling porkies to make a team look bad 

The transcript of the match is at the bottom of the BBC report of the match


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So who was the player ? Or a case of telling porkies to make a team look bad 

The transcript of the match is at the bottom of the BBC report of the match
		
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It was Ba,midway through the 2nd half. We were been shown replays of the incident. Gary Neville commented on it. If I wanted to make a team look bad I'd have put a link up of the trouble with the fans after the game :thup:


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## chrisd (Apr 28, 2014)

Funny isn't it?

My team get a new manager, he sorts out the defence and makes us really difficult to beat, we rarely score more than one goal in a game and (rightly) Tony Pulis is possibly hailed as Manager of the Year!

Jose does the same for only two games and he's not seen as playing proper football?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			It was Ba,midway through the 2nd half. We were been shown replays of the incident. Gary Neville commented on it. If I wanted to make a team look bad I'd have put a link up of the trouble with the fans after the game :thup:
		
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I'm sure you can provide proof to back up the statement ?

Yes let's not forget the fans and their singing on the train up or the twitter messages from certain fans with pictures of knives and the threats - classy 

But you don't want to go into that do you because let's be honest your fans aren't angels :thup:

So let's leave that there


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

chrisd said:



			Funny isn't it?

My team get a new manager, he sorts out the defence and makes us really difficult to beat, we rarely score more than one goal in a game and (rightly) Tony Pulis is possibly hailed as Manager of the Year!

Jose does the same for only two games and he's not seen as playing proper football?
		
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Your manager didn't spend Â£109 million on players this year - spending the money on attacking( hence the word attacking mids ) and a striker.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm sure you can provide proof to back up the statement ?

Yes let's not forget the fans and their singing on the train up or the twitter messages from certain fans with pictures of knives and the threats - classy 

But you don't want to go into that do you because let's be honest your fans aren't angels :thup:

So let's leave that there
		
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Aaaaawwww you really think I need to prove something to you that's cute.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Aaaaawwww you really think I need to prove something to you that's cute.
		
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Well when people normally make disparaging statements it's normally more valid with proof 

But I'll treat the comment in the vain it should be :thup:


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			At times the score doesn't always reflect the pattern of play :thup:
		
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Is that Liverpool speak for 'our players were not talented or accurate enough to break down their defense'.

How do you explain away the two goals. Lucky?

I did not see the game so I can't give a judgment but a 2-0 defeat says it all.


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## chrisd (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Your manager didn't spend Â£109 million on players this year - spending the money on attacking( hence the word attacking mids ) and a striker.
		
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How a manager chooses to deploy his team is entirely his decision, it's the opposition managers job to counter any plan!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Is that Liverpool speak for 'our players were not talented or accurate enough to break down their defense'.

How do you explain away the two goals. Lucky?

I did not see the game so I can't give a judgment but a 2-0 defeat says it all.
		
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The first goal came from a mistake when Gerrard slipped and we were pushing up - the second goal came in the last minute when we were pushing for an equaliser and had all our men attacking.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

chrisd said:



			How a manager chooses to deploy his team is entirely his decision, it's the opposition managers job to counter any plan!
		
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No doubt at all - the tactics deployed yesterday from one manager wouldn't be my preferred tactics to play :thup:


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## c1973 (Apr 28, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Is that Liverpool speak for 'our players were not talented or accurate enough to break down their defense'.

How do you explain away the two goals. Lucky?

I did not see the game so I can't give a judgment but a 2-0 defeat says it all.
		
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Tbf, the first goal was a tad lucky.


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## chrisd (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No doubt at all - the tactics deployed yesterday from one manager wouldn't be my preferred tactics to play :thup:
		
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If we deploy the same ones next Monday and win 2 - 0 I'd be very happy!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

chrisd said:



			If we deploy the same ones next Monday and win 2 - 0 I'd be very happy!
		
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I have no doubt you will - :thup:


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 28, 2014)

chrisd said:



			How a manager chooses to deploy his team is entirely his decision, it's the opposition managers job to counter any plan!
		
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Couldn't agree more mate. You only have to look at Jose's record. Kevin Keegans record as a Manager isn't so impressive,played some cracking football tho


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## chrisd (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I have no doubt you will - :thup:
		
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I refer to my earlier comment - Pulis does it = master tactician. Jose does it and football as we know it is dead!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

chrisd said:



			I refer to my earlier comment - Pulis does it = master tactician. Jose does it and football as we know it is dead!
		
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Sorry but I don't call Pulis the master tactician - the football he played at Stoke was turgid awful football 

Haven't seen many Palace games so can't comment on his tactics for Palace but he has done a great job for you this season


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 28, 2014)

Gary Neville just pretty much summed up Liverpools performance on MNF,Desperate. Just hit and hope shots & crosses instead of playing it to Suarez on the floor. The manager as to take responsibility for that.


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## chrisd (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but I don't call Pulis the master tactician - the football he played at Stoke was turgid awful football 

Haven't seen many Palace games so can't comment on his tactics for Palace but he has done a great job for you this season
		
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Phil .... You get the (tongue in cheek) point that I'm making!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

chrisd said:



			Phil .... You get the (tongue in cheek) point that I'm making!
		
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I do indeed :thup:


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 28, 2014)

There is an old adage to the effect that the worst mistake you can make is one you have previously made and that is what Liverpool and Rodgers were guilty of yesterday.

After an hour it was more than clear that their approach to the game was not succeeding yet there was no change in their tactics. He is still a relatively young and inexperienced manager and will learn from experiences such as this.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 28, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Mate, I'm not a modern day fan. I've been watching football for 31 years from the bottom of the old division 4 to the Premier League. I started to lose interest when We got to the Premier League. The Premiership is supposed to be the best league in the world and the CL is supposed to be the pinnacle of european football yet just about everytime I turn on to watch the supposed best teams in Europe I get served up dross like Chelsea vs Atletico Madrid the other night. If all you care about is winning then fine, you enjoy yourself but you'll excuse me if I don't find it very interesting.
		
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Sorry mate my post wasn't aimed at you personally it was just an observation in general.


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## G1BB0 (Apr 28, 2014)

In the words of Mr Ian Holloway 

"My arms withered and my body was covered with puss-like sores, but no matter how bad it got I consoled myself by remembering that I wasn't a Chelsea fan." 

also fans spitting on the Hillsborough memorial and chanting Gerrard your cousin is dead.... classless fans from a classless club imho.

Amen


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 28, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			It was Ba,midway through the 2nd half. We were been shown replays of the incident. Gary Neville commented on it. If I wanted to make a team look bad I'd have put a link up of the trouble with the fans after the game :thup:
		
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Is this what you mean http://t.co/pG4V0cm23a

I never, unlike some, call a whole body of fans "scum", because every club has them, LFC included.

Many idiots shout things during minutes silences all over, but Chelsea have twice massively disrupted minutes silences for Hillsborough with hundreds taking part. If what is alleged above is true,but with previous form, would not be surprised, how do you see that as a Chelsea fan?

I've met some Chelsea fans over the years, and had no problems and some are cracking lads, including lads on here.

With the two Hillsborough silences I haven't heard many apologies from the club, the manager, supoorters groups, or people on here. Do you not condone it? You didn't at the time.

And overall why? Man U (a bitter rival) have shown respect in the main.

Why do chelsea hate us that much, cos we knocked you out of a few CL semis, we weren't bitter rivals before that. Does that justify this level of filth?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Is this what you mean http://t.co/pG4V0cm23a

I never, unlike some, call a whole body of fans "scum", because every club has them, LFC included.

Many idiots shout things during minutes silences all over, but Chelsea have twice massively disrupted minutes silences for Hillsborough with hundreds taking part. If what is alleged above is true,but with previous form, would not be surprised, how do you see that as a Chelsea fan?

I've met some Chelsea fans over the years, and had no problems and some are cracking lads, including lads on here.

With the two Hillsborough silences I haven't heard many apologies from the club, the manager, supoorters groups, or people on here. Do you not condone it? You didn't at the time.

And overall why? Man U (a bitter rival) have shown respect in the main.

Why do chelsea hate us that much, cos we knocked you out of a few CL semis, we weren't bitter rivals before that. Does that justify this level of filth?
		
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Is that the reported spitting on the Hillsborough Memorial or the singing "Wish it could be Hillsborough everyday" on the train up from London ? 

It's not loading up ?


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 28, 2014)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/liverpool-vs-chelsea-violence-erupts-3468925


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## MadAdey (Apr 28, 2014)

chrisd said:



			I refer to my earlier comment - Pulis does it = master tactician. Jose does it and football as we know it is dead!
		
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I think the reason the likes of Pulis can play like that and people give him credit for it is because he is using, (without being disrespectful) a lot of average at best PL players. So he has to do the best he can and that is to keep it tight and organised and try to grab a goal.

When a manager of a team like CHelsea that is full of top class PL players and internationals then people expect them to do a bit more than just park a big blue bus and try to scrape a goal on the counter attack.

But, I can't fault him for it. He has got a slightly weakened team due to injuries and suspensions, but still went to Anfield and got 3 points. If he had gone there and tried to take the game to Liverpool he probably would have walked with nothing more than a good beating.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/liverpool-vs-chelsea-violence-erupts-3468925

Click to expand...


Beyond the pale - vile filth 

There is some things money can't buy


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## Jdb2005 (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Beyond the pale - vile filth 

There is some things money can't buy
		
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http://www.joe.ie/news/current-affa...n-vandalised-with-despicable-munich-graffiti/

Horrible fans in every club


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 28, 2014)

Jdb2005 said:



http://www.joe.ie/news/current-affa...n-vandalised-with-despicable-munich-graffiti/

Horrible fans in every club
		
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Yes there are and it's disgusting the actions of some people 

It's like the UTD fans having Hillsborough banners on the Motorway bridges as Liverpool fans travelled to Old Trafford for the 06 Cup Semi


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## Jdb2005 (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpool had no plan b yesterday. I was at the game and once they realised they weren't going to break us down with there usual game, they should just have  kept the ball at the back as we wouldn't have pressed the game to them and lfc would've got a point. Kept chipping balls in that our defence lap up. Weren't prepared to go round the back. No plan b. Should be realised we wouldn't have played into there style like spurs arsenal or city.

Jose done what needed to be done.

End thread


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## Jdb2005 (Apr 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes there are and it's disgusting the actions of some people 

It's like the UTD fans having Hillsborough banners on the Motorway bridges as Liverpool fans travelled to Old Trafford for the 06 Cup Semi
		
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Thing is these cretins will never be hounded out. There nit fans there vile as u previously said


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## chris661 (Apr 28, 2014)

Time for a few folks to take a step back before this starts to get really silly please. 

Thanks.


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## richart (Apr 28, 2014)

Why didn't Liverpool sit back and play for a draw ? Would have put Chelsea out of contention for the title, and still meant if they won their last two games they would be champions. Chelsea may have been forced to attack more if they really did think they could win the league, and Liverpool could have played on the break.

Oh dear I am starting to think like Jose.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes there are and it's disgusting the actions of some people 

It's like the UTD fans having Hillsborough banners on the Motorway bridges as Liverpool fans travelled to Old Trafford for the 06 Cup Semi
		
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Some nasty people about,like the ones who attacked the bus before the Liverpool v City match on the anniversary of Hillsborough.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 29, 2014)

richart said:



			Why didn't Liverpool sit back and play for a draw ? Would have put Chelsea out of contention for the title, and still meant if they won their last two games they would be champions. Chelsea may have been forced to attack more if they really did think they could win the league, and Liverpool could have played on the break.

Oh dear I am starting to think like Jose.

Click to expand...

Apparently they prefer to play "attractive" football. Looked more like hit & hope to me. It never really looked like Rodgers tried to change his tactics.


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## chrisd (Apr 29, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			I think the reason the likes of Pulis can play like that and people give him credit for it is because he is using, (without being disrespectful) a lot of average at best PL players. So he has to do the best he can and that is to keep it tight and organised and try to grab a goal.

When a manager of a team like CHelsea that is full of top class PL players and internationals then people expect them to do a bit more than just park a big blue bus and try to scrape a goal on the counter attack.

But, I can't fault him for it. He has got a slightly weakened team due to injuries and suspensions, but still went to Anfield and got 3 points. If he had gone there and tried to take the game to Liverpool he probably would have walked with nothing more than a good beating.
		
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You're spot on Adey, pretty much what I was alluding to but wrote, tongue rather firmly in cheek. If I was a manager though and got 3 points for my team I'd take no criticism from the opponents over my game plan, it's their job to work out how to beat it. I bet you that BlueinMunich didn't do anything other than purr after a masterful win with a weakened team that exposed the potential champions lack of guile when needed!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 29, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Some nasty people about,like the ones who attacked the bus before the Liverpool v City match on the anniversary of Hillsborough.
		
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Its not a challenge to find the worst - Liverbirdie wrote a very good post towards you which im guessing you are going to ignore post #155. All clubs have their element and all fans need to take responsibility of their actions - the sooner vile humans are removed from football stands the better.


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## USER1999 (Apr 29, 2014)

If Chelsea hadn't fluked the first goal, forcing Liverpool to come out more, would it have been nil, nil? 

I didn't watch the game, but often this is the case with defensively set up teams.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Its not a challenge to find the worst - Liverbirdie wrote a very good post towards you which im guessing you are going to ignore post #155. All clubs have their element and all fans need to take responsibility of their actions - the sooner vile humans are removed from football stands the better.
		
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I disagreed with his post but respected his opinion :thup:
Have a good day Phillip


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 29, 2014)

murphthemog said:



			If Chelsea hadn't fluked the first goal, forcing Liverpool to come out more, would it have been nil, nil? 

I didn't watch the game, but often this is the case with defensively set up teams.
		
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Who knows maybe it might have forced Chelsea out a bit more which could have let Liverpool in but unfortunatly the mistake allowed them to sit and force us to find a way through.


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## MadAdey (Apr 29, 2014)

richart said:



			Why didn't Liverpool sit back and play for a draw ? Would have put Chelsea out of contention for the title, and still meant if they won their last two games they would be champions. Chelsea may have been forced to attack more if they really did think they could win the league, and Liverpool could have played on the break.

Oh dear I am starting to think like Jose.

Click to expand...


That is what I did not understand. Liverpool only needed to draw. That would have put Chelsea out of the title race and more or less gaurantee second. Also that would leave Liverpool needing 2 wins to win the league, irrespective of what City do. Now Liverpool are left needing City to slip up, as they have a far better goal difference.

Bit of an error from Rogers IMO, sit back and take the 0-0, knowing hta Chelsea had to win if they where going ot stay in the race eventually they would have had to come out and attack.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 29, 2014)

http://m.skysports.com/article/football//9288355
I always said Carra talked a lot of sense 

Tbh Murph I always fancied Chelsea to get a goal. Liverpool were there for the taking with the way Rodgers had them set up.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 29, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			That is what I did not understand. Liverpool only needed to draw. That would have put Chelsea out of the title race and more or less gaurantee second. Also that would leave Liverpool needing 2 wins to win the league, irrespective of what City do. Now Liverpool are left needing City to slip up, as they have a far better goal difference.

Bit of an error from Rogers IMO, sit back and take the 0-0, knowing hta Chelsea had to win if they where going ot stay in the race eventually they would have had to come out and attack.
		
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Certainly BR could and prob should have changed a few things and they prob just didn't slow down and think for a min but I can't complain too much tbh 

This time last year I wasn't feeling very hopefully - was hoping for a decent season and maybe get into Europa Lge and make some strides forward but this year has been immense - regardless of the result we are still sat top with a couple games to go so nothing is over yet - even if finish second the season is a massive success 

To go from 7th to 2nd is something that I'll celebrate and be proud off and use it hopefully as a stepping stone to further success 

BR is doing an amazing job and this is all a learning curve for him - and there he is sat above multi million pound squads and far more experienced managers.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 29, 2014)

Jdb2005 said:



http://www.joe.ie/news/current-affa...n-vandalised-with-despicable-munich-graffiti/

Horrible fans in every club
		
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Pin-seeker said:



			Some nasty people about,like the ones who attacked the bus before the Liverpool v City match on the anniversary of Hillsborough.
		
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 The default position of so called football fans these days - don't apologise or try to explain your actions, just bring up another example of the accuser doing the same thing and everything is ok. No apologies, no reasoning, silence is as good as condoning it. When other fans start shouting down these filthy songs they start to die. You had a chance pinseeker and didn't take it. Don't justify evil deeds with other evil deeds. Lots of Chelsea fans on here on Sunday night, obviously the likes of this isn't condoned.Classless.


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## Fish (Apr 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			- and there he is sat above multi million pound squads and far more experienced managers.
		
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My god its like an old record, over and over and over....

Notice you haven't chosen to responded to this from one of your own old faithful, is he wrong?

http://m.skysports.com/article/football//9288355


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 29, 2014)

Yeah alright mate


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 29, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yeah alright mate
		
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 Ah - teenage mode - truth hurts doesn't it?


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 29, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ah - teenage mode - truth hurts doesn't it?
		
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No need to start getting personal mate. 
Have a bit of class yourself


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 29, 2014)

Fish said:



			My god its like an old record, over and over and over....

Notice you haven't chosen to responded to this from one of your own old faithful, is he wrong?

http://m.skysports.com/article/football//9288355

Click to expand...

How does that change my point 

He is manager of a team currently sat a top the premiership 

Your team had a good win and it appears the celebrations are still going on

It doesn't seem to have put your team above Liverpool so enjoy the celebrations of going from 3rd last season to 3rd this season. 

Yep in the past we had some performances when we had our backs to the wall and dug out results - no one had suggested we haven't but that's in the past - I do believe you didn't want people to constantly go into the past ? 

I'm giving praise to my teams manager because I believe he deserves it and has the results to back it up - if you don't like that then I'm sorry - deal with it


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 29, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			No need to start getting personal mate. 
Have a bit of class yourself
		
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 Not making it personal, just replying to the ones who did. From the outside looking in it would suggest that Chelsea fans are not bothered by this. When you have become the Liverpool echo correspondent for trouble around Anfield after games, some Liverpool fans have showed embarrassment, or denounced it.


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## dufferman (Apr 29, 2014)

Fans will be fans, each team in every league from Premier to Blue Square will have fans who are bad people. Let's just put that out there. Having a pop at any group of fans is pretty naive, it won't take much Googling to find a team's lot of fans being less than kind. 

Seems that there are some pretty desperate attempts to belittle any team but their own on this thread, and let it be known, it just makes the person saying it look like a child who's toys are all out their pram.

LiverpoolPhil - my god man, just accept you were beat by the better team on the weekend. Bad tactics, a less than admirable manager, awfully disrespectful fans, too much money being spent on the team, lucky goals on the counter, un-entertaining football from the winning team are ALL excuses for Liverpool losing to Chelsea on Sunday. And I'm sure I've missed one or two other barrel-scraping excuses too.

Get over it. Suck it up. Move on. 

If Liverpool win the league, I'm certain you'll start a thread with a big picture of Gerrard as the re-incarnation of Jesus Christ himself, and Rogers the Virgin Mary. And that's your choice. But until then, give it a rest?


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## Slime (Apr 29, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Time for a few folks to take a step back before this starts to get really silly please. 

Thanks.
		
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I couldn't agree more. I smell a whiff of tit for tat in the air, and that ain't good.



murphthemog said:



*If Chelsea hadn't fluked the first goal*, forcing Liverpool to come out more, would it have been nil, nil? 

*I didn't watch the game*, but often this is the case with defensively set up teams.
		
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If Gerrard hadn't cocked up & let Chelsea in is more accurate. They only 'fluked it' because of a Liverpool error, it's not like it was a dodgy penalty, an offside goal or a wickedly deflected shot that was going wide! 
Are you borrowing Phil's blinkers? 

I did watch the game. Chelsea out thought Liverpool ...................... it was as simple as that.


*Slime*.


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## Slime (Apr 29, 2014)

dufferman said:



			Fans will be fans, each team in every league from Premier to Blue Square will have fans who are bad people. Let's just put that out there. Having a pop at any group of fans is pretty naive, it won't take much Googling to find a team's lot of fans being less than kind. 

Seems that there are some pretty desperate attempts to belittle any team but their own on this thread, and let it be known, it just makes the person saying it look like a child who's toys are all out their pram.

*LiverpoolPhil - my god man*, just accept you were beat by the better team on the weekend. Bad tactics, a less than admirable manager, awfully disrespectful fans, too much money being spent on the team, lucky goals on the counter, un-entertaining football from the winning team are ALL excuses for Liverpool losing to Chelsea on Sunday. And I'm sure I've missed one or two other barrel-scraping excuses too.

Get over it. Suck it up. Move on. 

If Liverpool win the league, I'm certain you'll start a thread with a big picture of Gerrard as the re-incarnation of Jesus Christ himself, and Rogers the Virgin Mary. And that's your choice. But until then, give it a rest?
		
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Please tell me that's a typo.


*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 29, 2014)

dufferman said:



			Fans will be fans, each team in every league from Premier to Blue Square will have fans who are bad people. Let's just put that out there. Having a pop at any group of fans is pretty naive, it won't take much Googling to find a team's lot of fans being less than kind. 

Seems that there are some pretty desperate attempts to belittle any team but their own on this thread, and let it be known, it just makes the person saying it look like a child who's toys are all out their pram.

LiverpoolPhil - my god man, just accept you were beat by the better team on the weekend. Bad tactics, a less than admirable manager, awfully disrespectful fans, too much money being spent on the team, lucky goals on the counter, un-entertaining football from the winning team are ALL excuses for Liverpool losing to Chelsea on Sunday. And I'm sure I've missed one or two other barrel-scraping excuses too.

Get over it. Suck it up. Move on. 

If Liverpool win the league, I'm certain you'll start a thread with a big picture of Gerrard as the re-incarnation of Jesus Christ himself, and Rogers the Virgin Mary. And that's your choice. But until then, give it a rest?
		
Click to expand...


If you don't like what is being posted then I'm sure the thread is easily ignored 

Enjoy your day :thup:


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 29, 2014)

dufferman said:



			Fans will be fans, each team in every league from Premier to Blue Square will have fans who are bad people. Let's just put that out there. Having a pop at any group of fans is pretty naive, it won't take much Googling to find a team's lot of fans being less than kind.
		
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 That's the whole point that you've obviously missed. The default position is to show examples of when the other fans have done similar, instead of apologising or trying to change things. Sheesh, it's not that hard to work out. Anyway, what I thought has been shown to be true, so not worth carrying it on really.


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## dufferman (Apr 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If you don't like what is being posted then I'm sure the thread is easily ignored 

Enjoy your day :thup:
		
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If only you'd take your own advice...?


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## dufferman (Apr 29, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			That's the whole point that you've obviously missed. The default position is to show examples of when the other fans have done similar, instead of apologising or trying to change things. Sheesh, it's not that hard to work out. Anyway, what I thought has been shown to be true, so not worth carrying it on really.
		
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The point is, that it's not Chelsea's fault that a bunch of mindless idiots follow the team. It's also not another Chelsea fans place to apologise for something someone else did, just because they are one of millions of people across the globe that support the same team.

That goes across the board - Liverpool, City, Norwich, Burnley, Cheltenham Town, Woking Town... we all know that some people are stupid, but having to consistantly apologise for it would mean this very forum would be full of people apologising for something a fan said or did. I don't know what happened after the Liverpool game Sunday, because I don't follow the BBC sport pages all night and day, and don't keep my TV on Sky Sports News... why is that something I have to apologise for?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 29, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			That's the whole point that you've obviously missed. The default position is to show examples of when the other fans have done similar, instead of apologising or trying to change things. Sheesh, it's not that hard to work out. Anyway, what I thought has been shown to be true, so not worth carrying it on really.
		
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The trouble is that even otherwise reasonable folk get tribal when it comes to their football clubs and start subconsciously defending behaviour that they would condemn elsewhere.
You are quite right, instead of citing "tit for tat" examples all fans, clubs and authorities need to finally "grow a pair" and by their actions, not just words, make it obvious that any of this anti-social, scum-like behaviour is completely unacceptable and has nothing to do with supporting your team.

Society in general contributes to this problem but all the different constituents of football can start to eradicate it from our game.

If fans witness this behaviour they should identify the culprits to the authorities and nit say "well, the other lot started it". 
Clubs should make it clear that they will not tolerate it by, wherever necessary, closing certain sections of their grounds.
The courts and authorities can play their part by imposing deterrent sentences to make it obvious that we have had enough of these idiots and their effect upon the perception of our game.

I write this as a supporter of 56 years standing of a club that has, itself, suffered more than many others from the actions of a lunatic fringe and yes I have told people to "shut up" on occasions but sadly there have been other times when, through weight of numbers, I have bottled it. 
I never said it was easy but we must all try in future to play our part to return the decency to the game.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 29, 2014)

1984-85 season â€“ 10,000 people on the Kop singing 1 of about 5-6 different Munich songs. Me amongst them as a14 year old highly impressionable youth, who copied what was being done around me.

1985 â€“ Heysel happened, afterwards I questioned to myself all things being a football and Liverpool fan. I decided to stop singing Munich, the songs that were sung at Spurs and any other of this ilk. Quite a lot of other Liverpool fans did, but nowhere near enough. 

1987 ish â€“ Whenever LFC were not playing Man united (vast majority of the time) anyone starting an anti-Man U song was shouted down, be it a Munich song or not.

1989 â€“ Post-Hillsborough vast, vast majority of LFC fans stop singing Munich songs. Far too late, but at least they did.

There are some Liverpool fans who still sing these songs but it is small majority, but it is never sung by hundreds any more especially inside the match.No-one generally even tries it, although the odd sporadic divvy.

This shows that if the majority can drown out, shout down or generally make it unacceptable to do this, fan culture can change.

Instead of being childish and saying â€œwell they started itâ€, theyâ€™re doing this â€“ maybe make a change for the better. 

Try reading a bit of ThomasJefferson (no, he wasnâ€™t Wengerâ€™s scouse fox in the box):-

*All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."


"Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day."
*

If not, the â€œmindlessâ€ will come to represent Chelsea fans. I know all Chelsea fans are not like this, but these are what isstaining your clubs reputation. Time to act? Only you can change it. Point made. nothing to do with Sunday's result. I posted about the football, this I only seen yesterday.

Edit - I read Metal mickie's comments after typing this - Well said that man.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 29, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



1984-85 season â€“ 10,000 people on the Kop singing 1 of about 5-6 different Munich songs. Me amongst them as a14 year old highly impressionable youth, who copied what was being done around me.

1985 â€“ Heysel happened, afterwards I questioned to myself all things being a football and Liverpool fan. I decided to stop singing Munich, the songs that were sung at Spurs and any other of this ilk. Quite a lot of other Liverpool fans did, but nowhere near enough. 

1987 ish â€“ Whenever LFC were not playing Man united (vast majority of the time) anyone starting an anti-Man U song was shouted down, be it a Munich song or not.

1989 â€“ Post-Hillsborough vast, vast majority of LFC fans stop singing Munich songs. Far too late, but at least they did.

There are some Liverpool fans who still sing these songs but it is small majority, but it is never sung by hundreds any more especially inside the match.No-one generally even tries it, although the odd sporadic divvy.

This shows that if the majority can drown out, shout down or generally make it unacceptable to do this, fan culture can change.

Instead of being childish and saying â€œwell they started itâ€, theyâ€™re doing this â€“ maybe make a change for the better. 

Try reading a bit of ThomasJefferson (no, he wasnâ€™t Wengerâ€™s scouse fox in the box):-

*All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."


"Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day."
*

*If not, the â€œmindlessâ€ will come to represent Chelsea fans. I know all Chelsea fans are not like this, but these are what isstaining your clubs reputation*. Time to act? Only you can change it. Point made. nothing to do with Sunday's result. I posted about the football, this I only seen yesterday.

Edit - I read Metal mickie's comments after typing this - Well said that man.

Click to expand...

Great post LB, but to my knowledge Chelsea only started with the  hillsborough/heysel songs since they became 'billy big time' and  apart from Everton and United  i can't remember any of the other clubs singing about it.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 29, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



1984-85 season â€“ 10,000 people on the Kop singing 1 of about 5-6 different Munich songs. Me amongst them as a14 year old highly impressionable youth, who copied what was being done around me.

1985 â€“ Heysel happened, afterwards I questioned to myself all things being a football and Liverpool fan. I decided to stop singing Munich, the songs that were sung at Spurs and any other of this ilk. Quite a lot of other Liverpool fans did, but nowhere near enough. 

1987 ish â€“ Whenever LFC were not playing Man united (vast majority of the time) anyone starting an anti-Man U song was shouted down, be it a Munich song or not.

1989 â€“ Post-Hillsborough vast, vast majority of LFC fans stop singing Munich songs. Far too late, but at least they did.

There are some Liverpool fans who still sing these songs but it is small majority, but it is never sung by hundreds any more especially inside the match.No-one generally even tries it, although the odd sporadic divvy.

This shows that if the majority can drown out, shout down or generally make it unacceptable to do this, fan culture can change.

Instead of being childish and saying â€œwell they started itâ€, theyâ€™re doing this â€“ maybe make a change for the better. 

Try reading a bit of ThomasJefferson (no, he wasnâ€™t Wengerâ€™s scouse fox in the box):-

*All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."


"Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day."
*

If not, the â€œmindlessâ€ will come to represent Chelsea fans. I know all Chelsea fans are not like this, but these are what isstaining your clubs reputation. Time to act? Only you can change it. Point made. nothing to do with Sunday's result. I posted about the football, this I only seen yesterday.

Edit - I read Metal mickie's comments after typing this - Well said that man.

Click to expand...

Whilst I do fully agree that any chanting abut disasters is out of order. Your time line suggests that the Liverpool fans only had a change if heart because they were involved in tragedies themselves. So whilst I think any fan caught doing it should be evicted and banned. Could they not use the defence of sorry I didn't realise how hurtful it was as it's never happened to me?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 29, 2014)

Do you really think that's a "defence" for chanting vile chants or doing vile things ?

Liverpool fans in the past have done some shameful things and we have apologised for it and fans and the club have been punished for it 

Lots of things have been thrown at Liverpool fans and at times rightly so 

But the point that LB has made is other fans recently have done some shocking things - the booing and chanting at the Hillsborough minute silence , the reported spitting at the memorial and the chants on the train etc 

But they have just been ignored , why hasn't a Chelsea fan on here condoned the actions of a minority of their fans ? 

If I'm honest I'm not surprised but as LB says it's a mystery where the sudden hated and vile stuff from Chelsea fans has come from ? Before 05 there was nothing - but since then it's appaling. It appears that the lack of class displayed by the manager has filtered down to a small minority of fans. 

A couple of FC are Chelsea fans and they were disgusted by some things that have happened recently 

I wish that the Liverpool fans didn't react to the chants etc and they should be bigger and ignore it. No excuse for violent reactions and the guilty ones from Liverpool should be punished


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## Papas1982 (Apr 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you really think that's a "defence" for chanting vile chants or doing vile things ?

Liverpool fans in the past have done some shameful things and we have apologised for it and fans and the club have been punished for it 

Lots of things have been thrown at Liverpool fans and at times rightly so 

But the point that LB has made is other fans recently have done some shocking things - the booing and chanting at the Hillsborough minute silence , the reported spitting at the memorial and the chants on the train etc 

But they have just been ignored , why hasn't a Chelsea fan on here condoned the actions of a minority of their fans ? 

If I'm honest I'm not surprised but as LB says it's a mystery where the sudden hated and vile stuff from Chelsea fans has come from ? Before 05 there was nothing - but since then it's appaling. It appears that the lack of class displayed by the manager has filtered down to a small minority of fans. 

A couple of FC are Chelsea fans and they were disgusted by some things that have happened recently 

I wish that the Liverpool fans didn't react to the chants etc and they should be bigger and ignore it. No excuse for violent reactions and the guilty ones from Liverpool should be punished
		
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i havent said said chelsea actions are in the slightest bit acceptable. But you keep calling for them to condone it. Do you think that was happening when thousands at the kop were chanting about it in the 70/80's. 

What chelsea have done is inexcusable, of course it is. But showing how compassionate Liverpool fans are now doesn't mean they have a right to preach when there were obviously plenty of fans who acted just as poorly. 

Re your rivalry, I'd say it goes both ways. I think it's because Chelsea are obviously a smaller club than Liverpool and arw trying to take their place towards the top of the English clubs, whilst Liverpool have been (until this season) falling away on the European scene. So the rivalry goes both ways "no class and no history" versus "fading giant living in the past".

alsoLets not forget, your actions got everyone punished. Not just yourselves.


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## Fish (Apr 29, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Re your rivalry, I'd say it goes both ways. I think it's because Chelsea are obviously a smaller club than Liverpool and are trying to take their place towards the top of the English clubs, whilst Liverpool have been (until this season) falling away on the European scene. So the rivalry goes both ways *"no class and no history" versus "fading giant living in the past".*.
		
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Oh I do like that (runs off to get new big flag made) :thup:



Papas1982 said:



			also, Lets not forget, your actions got everyone punished. Not just yourselves.
		
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Quite right :thup:


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## Foxholer (Apr 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			...
But the point that LB has made is other fans recently have done some shocking things - the booing and chanting at the Hillsborough minute silence , the reported spitting at the memorial and the chants on the train etc 

But they have just been ignored , why hasn't a Chelsea fan on here *condoned* the actions of a minority of their fans ? 
...
		
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Papas1982 said:



			i havent said said chelsea actions are in the slightest bit acceptable. But you keep calling for them to *condone* it....
		
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I trust you actually mean 'condemned'! 

Rather significant difference!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 29, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			i havent said said chelsea actions are in the slightest bit acceptable. But you keep calling for them to condone it. Do you think that was happening when thousands at the kop were chanting about it in the 70/80's. 

What chelsea have done is inexcusable, of course it is. But showing how compassionate Liverpool fans are now doesn't mean they have a right to preach when there were obviously plenty of fans who acted just as poorly. 

Re your rivalry, I'd say it goes both ways. I think it's because Chelsea are obviously a smaller club than Liverpool and arw trying to take their place towards the top of the English clubs, whilst Liverpool have been (until this season) falling away on the European scene. So the rivalry goes both ways "no class and no history" versus "fading giant living in the past".

alsoLets not forget, your actions got everyone punished. Not just yourselves.
		
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I take it that you and Liverpoolphil don't agree with the comments I made in Post #190


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## Foxholer (Apr 29, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			I take it that you and Liverpoolphil don't agree with the comments I made in Post #190
		
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I agree with it completely!

And it's the tribalism exhibited by those 2 that is moving me in the direction of wanting Man City to win!


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## c1973 (Apr 29, 2014)

Tbf to Liverpool, Heysel was pretty much the straw that broke the camels back in terms of UEFA sanctions against English clubs. 

Although not the only country with a hooligan problem England was pretty bad back then. Have we forgot the likes of the ICF, Headhunters, Bushwackers, Zulus, Naughty Forty, Red Army etc?  The nation team had problems everywhere they went too, so the sanctions were not all the fault of one club.

On a lighter note, my team didn't half benefit from the ban UEFA imposed on English clubs.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 29, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			I trust you actually mean 'condemned'! 

Rather significant difference!
		
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You'd be correct lol. I don't dislike Liverpool that much!!


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## Fish (Apr 29, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			I take it that you and Liverpoolphil don't agree with the comments I made in Post #190
		
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Everything that you ask for in that post is in place, stewards identify individuals and highlight them to police, banning orders are issued on a regular basis from activities inside and outside the grounds and these orders are mainly for 2 years or more, not a season or a few months, it also includes the handing in of passports on match days and you cannot go near any ground (1 mile) 4hrs before and 3hrs after kick-off, so, there are measures as all clubs have special police spotters and are fully aware of ring leaders and 'firms' that cause trouble at any level.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 29, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			I take it that you and Liverpoolphil don't agree with the comments I made in Post #190
		
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I do agree, I support neither team and wasn't being tit for tat. Just pointing out that it's all well and good "condemning" the actions of Chelsea when they were as big a culprit themselves. Just pointing out that they only improved once they'd been hit by tragedy, and therefor aren't a shining example like they seem to think there now are. 

Re the tribalism of footy. its this that makes it so popular, yes it boils over and the chanting of certain things does take it too far. But by and large I've not seen anything on hear that I wouldn't hear down the pub and take as banter. There are idiots in all walks of life with stupid views. Be they council house terrace fans or leafy suburb golf fans. Or vice versus. Society has a loooong was to go before that changes.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 29, 2014)

Fish said:



			Everything that you ask for in that post is in place, stewards identify individuals and highlight them to police, banning orders are issued on a regular basis from activities inside and outside the grounds and these orders are mainly for 2 years or more, not a season or a few months, it also includes the handing in of passports on match days and you cannot go near any ground (1 mile) 4hrs before and 3hrs after kick-off, so, there are measures as all clubs have special police spotters and are fully aware of ring leaders and 'firms' that cause trouble at any level.
		
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Sorry but not everything is in place.

Too many decent supporters continue to turn a blind eye and a deaf ear towards the sort of behaviour that we all condemn. It is hard, I know, but things will only change when we do take positive action and stop acting like kids by saying "he started it."


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 29, 2014)

It comes in all shapes and forms but vile chanting and abuse is widespread amongst all teams. Chanting and glorying about the various football disasters is terrible, of course, and I have heard racist or sexist or homophobic or sectarian abuse at every single professional football match I have ever attended. It was a significant factor in my decision to give up my season ticket several years ago; I was ashamed and embarrassed to be part of it even though not an active participant (once I grew up and moved on from the "crowd mentality", at least, as Liverbirdie mentioned).

That's from supporters of my team, from the opposition and from fans of other teams at matches I attended as a neutral. No team is exempt, you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise and very wrong to attempt to excuse fans of your own team by pointing at other team's supporters. It's a football problem, not an particular club's problem.

It's very rare to see anyone confront another fan about this and, except when it's done by a parent with a young child present, I've never seen it go well. I admit to being too scared to challenge anyone in the heat of the moment, other than people I was already friends with. I wouldn't advocate individuals trying it although if a critical mass of "decent" supporters did just that things might eventually change....


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## Slime (Apr 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If I'm honest I'm not surprised but as LB says it's a mystery where the sudden hated and vile stuff from Chelsea fans has come from ? *Before 05 there was nothing* - but since then it's appaling. It appears that the lack of class displayed by the manager has filtered down to a small minority of fans.
		
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Oh yes there was! Back in the 70's they were definitely as bad as anyone else.



Foxholer said:



			I trust you actually mean 'condemned'! 

Rather significant difference!
		
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I was thinking exactly that, you beat me to it. :thup:



*Slime*.


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## Foxholer (Apr 29, 2014)

Slime said:



			Oh yes there was! Back in the 70's they were definitely as bad as anyone else....
		
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And I can remember seeing a documentary about Football Hooliganism from Chelsea 'supporters' around 1999/2000 that actually got some ringleaders jailed - and those of the 'opponents' as well!

And to be fair, it wasn't just Chelsea at the time - nor now. It's the general tribalism nature of a 'fan'.

And while the infrastructure for 'policing' unruly/illegal activity is in place, there needs to be more publishing of actual results imo. And if 'everything is in place', how come it's not working!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 29, 2014)

Slime said:



			Oh yes there was! Back in the 70's they were definitely as bad as anyone else.



I was thinking exactly that, you beat me to it. :thup:



*Slime*.
		
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Sorry was meaning the vile chants about Hillsborough etc 

Yes there was the Headhunters who used to have running battles with the firms from Millwall and West Ham etc


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## Fish (Apr 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes there was the Headhunters who used to have running battles with the firms from Millwall and West Ham etc
		
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and Liverpool Urchins...

don't forget your own, very easy to name others and isolate it to London clubs!


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## pbrown7582 (Apr 29, 2014)

Fish said:



			and Liverpool Urchins...

don't forget your own, very easy to name others and isolate it to London clubs!
		
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Every club had a firm and although policed a lot better the aggro is bubbling along just under the surface and breaks out every so often.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 29, 2014)

Fish said:



			and Liverpool Urchins...

don't forget your own, very easy to name others and isolate it to London clubs!
		
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File them under the etc 

The two London clubs were mentioned because they are the ones that have been highlighted in programmes etc


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## Slime (Apr 29, 2014)

For goodness' sake people, can we please just accept that our own club, whoever that maybe, has an element of vile supporters.
I've even seen police intervening during a Woking v Farnborough game in the Conference many, many moons ago.
There is no kudos to be gained by proving that so and so's supporters are worse than those of your own club.
ALL clubs have an element of filth ......................... let's just accept this, move on and try to keep on topic. 
If that's such a problem, open a new thread entitled 'Your supporters are Viler Than Ours ............ Discuss'.


*Slime*.


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## chris661 (Apr 29, 2014)

This thread is in real danger of getting extremely silly. Cut it out or its finished. 

Last warning.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 29, 2014)

So to summerise this thread re the Hillsborough/heysel shouts from the Chelsea lot  because Liverpool have/will/do sing Munich songs it's ok??

With regards to Liverpool getting the English clubs banned from Europe, they were the final nail in coffin as Liverpool Everton Leeds Villa Spurs all had problems in Europe with hooligans. But there's nothing like a good story I suppose.....

I honestly can't remember hearing Hillsborough/Heysel shouts from Chelsea all through the 90's and until they become a big team in 2004.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 29, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			So to summerise this thread re the Hillsborough/heysel shouts from the Chelsea lot  because Liverpool have/will/do sing Munich songs it's ok??

With regards to Liverpool getting the English clubs banned from Europe, they were the final nail in coffin as Liverpool Everton Leeds Villa Spurs all had problems in Europe with hooligans. But there's nothing like a good story I suppose.....

I honestly can't remember hearing Hillsborough/Heysel shouts from Chelsea all through the 90's and until they become a big team in 2004.
		
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Or you could say that all teams have a few idiots that follow them,& Liverpool aren't always the victims.


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## Slime (Apr 29, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			So ................................
..............................................................................
..............................................................................
..............................................................................
..................................................... 2004.
		
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That's better.


*Slime*.


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## Dodger (Apr 29, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Or you could say that all teams have a few idiots that follow them,& Liverpool aren't always the victims.
		
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????

Come on now everyone knows that Liverpool fans are the kings of mopery.

All teams have knuckledraggers even Berwick Rangers.Anyone that says their team doesn't is in denial.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 29, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Or you could say that all teams have a few idiots that follow them,& Liverpool aren't always the victims.
		
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Who mentioned being victim's?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 29, 2014)

Slime said:



			That's better.


*Slime*.
		
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Wow Slime's just posted a funny one


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 29, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Who mentioned being victim's?
		
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I've heard it mentioned once or twice.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 29, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I've heard it mentioned once or twice.
		
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Who mentioned being victim's was the question not how many times have you heard it mentioned.


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## Pin-seeker (Apr 29, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Who mentioned being victim's was the question not how many times have you heard it mentioned.
		
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You know what mate this is getting really boring. Forget I said anything because I'm really loosing the will to live now. No offence.


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## Slime (Apr 29, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Wow Slime's just posted a funny one

Click to expand...

Thanks mate. 
Here's another one,
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
*chris661*, are you there? If so, you have a task to perform ..................... for the sake of this thread. :thup:


*Slime*.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 29, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			You know what mate this is getting really boring. Forget I said anything because I'm really loosing the will to live now. No offence.
		
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## Stuart_C (Apr 29, 2014)

Slime said:



			Thanks mate. 
Here's another one,
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
*chris661*, are you there? If so, you have a task to perform ..................... for the sake of this thread. :thup:


*Slime*.
		
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Pathetic Slime absolutely pathetic.


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## Slime (Apr 29, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Pathetic Slime absolutely pathetic.
		
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Sorry *Stuart_C*, just trying to inject a bit of light heartedness ..................... or do you prefer childish points scoring?


*Slime*.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 29, 2014)

Slime said:



			Sorry *Stuart_C*, just trying to inject a bit of light heartedness .....................* or do you prefer childish points scoring*?


*Slime*.
		
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I was told you had to be clever for this......

I agree with the points scoring shout it seems to spoil most threads these days, i thought my summary of the thread was fair,No?


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## Slime (Apr 29, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			I was told you had to be clever for this......

I agree with the points scoring shout it seems to spoil most threads these days, i thought my summary of the thread was fair,No?
		
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Not really because it was off-topic. 
This thread is, or at least should be, about Mourinho's Chelsea, i.e. the team/players/squad and their tactics and nothing to do with Hillsborough/heysel shouts from the Chelsea supporters. I think that's for another thread and I don't particularly want to see this one closed.
If that makes sense.


*Slime*.

If the topic was about vile supporters, then maybe :thup:.


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## MadAdey (Apr 29, 2014)

TO be honest why doesn't everyone just accept that for the 5 decades our game has been over run with mindless morons (the actual words I would like to use would get me banned) and every team has been as bad as the next at some point during that time. The authorities are trying to clamp down on it, but it is very difficult to totally remove it from the game. Saying fans should highlight things to stewards is ridiculous, do you want that braindead moron to see it was you getting him kicked out of the ground?

We got banned from Europe for too many years of violence from multiple clubs like has already been said. UEFA had been looking for an excuse to ban English clubs from Europe, 1985 gave them that chance and my god did they make the most of it. 

I do not see what this argument is all about, it is like listening to a bunch of children in the playground, I think people just need to grow up a bit.........


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 29, 2014)

Firstly, this has nothing to do with hooliganism per se.

Yes, every major club has a firm, and this isn't to say that Chelsea's "firm" was doing this. They may have been, they may not have been.  There may have been 14 year old impressionable youths there (as I was 30 years ago), they may have been 70 year old men.

The fact is that a large part of their support on 2 occasions has disrupted a minutes silence. It is rumoured about spitting on the Hillsborough memorial and singing vile chants about Steven Gerrards cousin dieing.

I also dont want Liverpool fans fans to be held up as bastions of society for not singing Munich songs anymore.We arent and dont deserve a pat on the back.

Football has generally moved on massively since the 70's and 80's.

I have asked if decent chelsea fans are disgusted with the behaviour shown, it doesn't look like they are. 

99% of football fans seemed to be able to hold a minutes silence recently, and no-one in any numbers has sang Hillsborough songs (apart from Millwall) in many years. Very sporadically Man u have, Everton sing songs about Heysel but you expect it from your rivals.

Why have Chelsea started in the last 4-5 years - cos we knocked them out of a few CL semis?

You can mention CCTV, police etc but with this type of stuff only fellow decent fans can change the overall culture of a clubs own fans. I'm not holding my breath.


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## Slime (Apr 29, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Firstly, this has nothing to do with hooliganism per se.

Yes, every major club has a firm, and this isn't to say that Chelsea's "firm" was doing this. They may have been, they may not have been.  There may have been 14 year old impressionable youths there (as I was 30 years ago), they may have been 70 year old men.

The fact is that a large part of their support on 2 occasions has disrupted a minutes silence. It is rumoured about spitting on the Hillsborough memorial and singing vile chants about Steven Gerrards cousin dieing.

I also dont want Liverpool fans fans to be held up as bastions of society for not singing Munich songs anymore.We arent and dont deserve a pat on the back.

Football has generally moved on massively since the 70's and 80's.

I have asked if decent chelsea fans are disgusted with the behaviour shown, it doesn't look like they are. 

99% of football fans seemed to be able to hold a minutes silence recently, and no-one in any numbers has sang Hillsborough songs (apart from Millwall) in many years. Very sporadically Man u have, Everton sing songs about Heysel but you expect it from your rivals.

Why have Chelsea started in the last 4-5 years - cos we knocked them out of a few CL semis?

You can mention CCTV, police etc but with this type of stuff only fellow decent fans can change the overall culture of a clubs own fans. I'm not holding my breath.
		
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............................... and so it continues ...........................


*Slime*.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 29, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			The fact is that a large part of their support on 2 occasions has disrupted a minutes silence. It is rumoured about spitting on the Hillsborough memorial and singing vile chants about Steven Gerrards cousin dieing.


I have asked if decent chelsea fans are disgusted with the behaviour shown, it doesn't look like they are.
		
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First & last contribution from me to this one.

I'm disgusted with any fan that can't keep their mouth shut for a minute to pay their respects regardless of what club they support but particularly if they claim to be Chelsea supporters.  I'd be interested to know which particular silences the "large part" of Chelsea's support are supposed to have disrespected because that wasn't the case with any I've been at; a few idiots did at the 2012 FA Cup semi-final, but more noise was made by those telling them to shut up from where I was sat, although that wasn't what the newspapers chose to report; it certainly wasn't a fact that a "large part" of our support disrupted it.  And while I have heard Hillsborough songs sung I have never yet heard one specifically sung about Steven Gerrard's cousin.  That is as a fan who has been going regularly for about 35 years, and who has only missed about 5 home games in all comps in the last 10 years, although granted I haven't been to Anfield for many years.

If it is the case that a fan spat on the Hillsborough memorial then they should be dealt with appropriately in a court of law.  However I wonder, given the sources of the reports (Twitter & the Daily Mirror) if it actually happened.  If it did and it was done in the name of my club then I am embarrassed.

Goodnight.


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## Foxholer (Apr 30, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			TO be honest why doesn't everyone just accept that for the 5 decades our game has been over run with mindless morons (the actual words I would like to use would get me banned) and every team has been as bad as the next at some point during that time. The authorities are trying to clamp down on it, but it is very difficult to totally remove it from the game. Saying fans should highlight things to stewards is ridiculous, do you want that braindead moron to see it was you getting him kicked out of the ground?

We got banned from Europe for too many years of violence from multiple clubs like has already been said. UEFA had been looking for an excuse to ban English clubs from Europe, 1985 gave them that chance and my god did they make the most of it. 

I do not see what this argument is all about, it is like listening to a bunch of children in the playground, I think people just need to grow up a bit.........
		
Click to expand...




Liverbirdie said:



			Firstly, this has nothing to do with hooliganism per se.

Yes, every major club has a firm, and this isn't to say that Chelsea's "firm" was doing this. They may have been, they may not have been.  There may have been 14 year old impressionable youths there (as I was 30 years ago), they may have been 70 year old men.

The fact is that a large part of their support on 2 occasions has disrupted a minutes silence. It is rumoured about spitting on the Hillsborough memorial and singing vile chants about Steven Gerrards cousin dieing.

I also dont want Liverpool fans fans to be held up as bastions of society for not singing Munich songs anymore.We arent and dont deserve a pat on the back.

Football has generally moved on massively since the 70's and 80's.

I have asked if decent chelsea fans are disgusted with the behaviour shown, it doesn't look like they are. 

99% of football fans seemed to be able to hold a minutes silence recently, and no-one in any numbers has sang Hillsborough songs (apart from Millwall) in many years. Very sporadically Man u have, Everton sing songs about Heysel but you expect it from your rivals.

Why have Chelsea started in the last 4-5 years - cos we knocked them out of a few CL semis?

You can mention CCTV, police etc but with this type of stuff only fellow decent fans can change the overall culture of a clubs own fans. I'm not holding my breath.
		
Click to expand...




Blue in Munich said:



			First & last contribution from me to this one.

I'm disgusted with any fan that can't keep their mouth shut for a minute to pay their respects regardless of what club they support but particularly if they claim to be Chelsea supporters.  I'd be interested to know which particular silences the "large part" of Chelsea's support are supposed to have disrespected because that wasn't the case with any I've been at; a few idiots did at the 2012 FA Cup semi-final, but more noise was made by those telling them to shut up from where I was sat, although that wasn't what the newspapers chose to report; it certainly wasn't a fact that a "large part" of our support disrupted it.  And while I have heard Hillsborough songs sung I have never yet heard one specifically sung about Steven Gerrard's cousin.  That is as a fan who has been going regularly for about 35 years, and who has only missed about 5 home games in all comps in the last 10 years, although granted I haven't been to Anfield for many years.

If it is the case that a fan spat on the Hillsborough memorial then they should be dealt with appropriately in a court of law.  However I wonder, given the sources of the reports (Twitter & the Daily Mirror) if it actually happened.  If it did and it was done in the name of my club then I am embarrassed.

Goodnight.
		
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Three entirely reasonable and sensible replies to wherever this thread has morphed into.

The OP was actually asking why it was Jose Mourinho's Chelsea and not simply Chelsea. But that got hijacked very quickly - about 230 posts ago!



HawkeyeMS said:



			Why is it that Sky Sports presenters have to refer to Chelsea as "Jose Mourinho's Chelsea"? It's just Chelsea and Jose Mourinho ain't that special!

:sbox:
		
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I think he is a bit special - not necessarily in a good way all the time. And, to me, it's Rogers's Liverpool just as much. Maybe it wasn't Moyes's Man U and I don't see it as Pelligrini's City for some reason. Is it Tony Pulis's Crystal Palace? Not from team selection, but he certainly owns the players hearts!

There's certainly a good chunk of self-promotion in Maureen's (much easier to type) style and that's probably good for both the team and for TV.


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## Fish (Apr 30, 2014)

With the greatest of respect Peter (LB), I do question the 'large part' description that is constantly creeping into many posts to harang Chelsea fans, as you know from a travelling supporter yourself, far more than anyone else on here currently, away travellers tend to be mainly from the ST brigade, especially when tickets are scarce and as such the away following can be far more mixed with couples and families in tow, as such, it is not proportionately mindless idiots that could make up a 'large part' of support to sing such gross chants. And, there are very few if any Chelsea 'firm' involved in this due to a large majority of them being currently banned or indefinitely banned, but, as you rightly have said, it only takes 1 or 2 and the young sheep will join in but in a more mixed travelling support, I dispute the 'large part' expression.

I'm personally not aware of the SG chants but I wouldn't be surprised if they have been created and gained pace and are being chanted, unfortunately this will be in a direct tit-for-tat mindless retaliation for the same vile chants and sick pictures that are seen all over Twitter and other social media sites by Liverpool fans since the death of Frank Lampards mother Pat.  Its not right to retaliate and its not right right to lower ourselves to the same degrading standards, but that is why it will be happening. 

I'm unsubscribing to this now along with the other Chelsea posts because its becoming a witch hunt and personal at times, which I'm not going to be drawn into. Peter, I'm always happy to discuss things with you over a social pint, you know that and we have indeed done so, there's wrongs in all corners and always will be, but, there are some on here that flippantly excuse their clubs briefly only then to point score greater in the same breath.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 30, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			First & last contribution from me to this one.

I'm disgusted with any fan that can't keep their mouth shut for a minute to pay their respects regardless of what club they support but particularly if they claim to be Chelsea supporters.  I'd be interested to know which particular silences the "large part" of Chelsea's support are supposed to have disrespected because that wasn't the case with any I've been at; a few idiots did at the 2012 FA Cup semi-final, but more noise was made by those telling them to shut up from where I was sat, although that wasn't what the newspapers chose to report; it certainly wasn't a fact that a "large part" of our support disrupted it.  And while I have heard Hillsborough songs sung I have never yet heard one specifically sung about Steven Gerrard's cousin.  That is as a fan who has been going regularly for about 35 years, and who has only missed about 5 home games in all comps in the last 10 years, although granted I haven't been to Anfield for many years.

If it is the case that a fan spat on the Hillsborough memorial then they should be dealt with appropriately in a court of law.  However I wonder, given the sources of the reports (Twitter & the Daily Mirror) if it actually happened.  If it did and it was done in the name of my club then I am embarrassed.

Goodnight.
		
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Fish said:



			With the greatest of respect Peter (LB), I do question the 'large part' description that is constantly creeping into many posts to harang Chelsea fans, as you know from a travelling supporter yourself, far more than anyone else on here currently, away travellers tend to be mainly from the ST brigade, especially when tickets are scarce and as such the away following can be far more mixed with couples and families in tow, as such, it is not proportionately mindless idiots that could make up a 'large part' of support to sing such gross chants. And, there are very few if any Chelsea 'firm' involved in this due to a large majority of them being currently banned or indefinitely banned, but, as you rightly have said, it only takes 1 or 2 and the young sheep will join in but in a more mixed travelling support, I dispute the 'large part' expression.

I'm personally not aware of the SG chants but I wouldn't be surprised if they have been created and gained pace and are being chanted, unfortunately this will be in a direct tit-for-tat mindless retaliation for the same vile chants and sick pictures that are seen all over Twitter and other social media sites by Liverpool fans since the death of Frank Lampards mother Pat.  Its not right to retaliate and its not right right to lower ourselves to the same degrading standards, but that is why it will be happening. 

I'm unsubscribing to this now along with the other Chelsea posts because its becoming a witch hunt and personal at times, which I'm not going to be drawn into. Peter, I'm always happy to discuss things with you over a social pint, you know that and we have indeed done so, there's wrongs in all corners and always will be, but, there are some on here that flippantly excuse their clubs briefly only then to point score greater in the same breath.
		
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Agreed Fish. 

The tone I try to take onto here would always be what I would be as happy to say in that persons company.It doesnâ€™t matter which part of the support does it, itâ€™s the fact that it happens and the longer it happens the more it becomes acceptable. Fans attitudes changes only when the other (same fans) take action.

If Liverpool fans had done the same I know I would have been straight on apologising, if I felt it was correct. Ok, you cant apologise for everything that fellow fans do, but major things I think should be.

Liverpool fans still do and say vile things, as do all other clubs fans. It still doesnâ€™t make it right to just brush it off with â€“ â€œwell you did thisâ€, that is how it just carries on. Iâ€™m no angel myself.

Blue in Munich

For clarification â€“ when I say large part, I donâ€™t mean the majority, which I know is not true. If I had felt that I would have said larger part. However, the FA cup semi and the Swansea game sounded like hundreds to me and not just 2-3 individuals (which can always happen). I also know that twitter and the papers are not reliable, so that is why I said alleged. Given the earlier incidents it wouldnâ€™t be suprising, as Fish agrees.

It may have happened, but I donâ€™t remember anyone from Chelsea FC, supporters groups or even Jose himself denouncing the spoiling of the minutes silences.

To show this isnâ€™t pointscoring â€“ I was at Man City about 5 years ago for when they had a minutes silence for George Best dying. 5 â€œknobheadsâ€ all about 16-18 y.o. started shouting stuff, the Liverpool fans turned on them and shouted them down, which as we know makes it worst. The man city fans then shouted the Liverpool fans down and it ended pretty quickly. The Man city fans that day were probably seen as at fault, which they werenâ€™t.

We all have them.

Alternately,2-3 weeks ago Man City came for a massive match and had 3 big banners asking for â€œjusticeâ€ or RIPto the 96 â€“ absolute class â€“ and before pinseeker says â€œyou bricked them afterwardsâ€. I donâ€™t know, havenâ€™t heard it,but if it did, this is absolutely out of order.

â€œthere's wrongs in all corners and alwayswill be, but, there are some on here that flippantly excuse their clubs briefly only then to point score greater in the same breathâ€ â€“ Amen to that.

I would happily share a pint with Chelsea fans, as I have done in the past and will judge them individually. As I have said on more than one occasion in the 80â€™s I actually admired Chelseaâ€™s vociferous support, which was not typical of London teams, in terms of travelling support,noise and passion, hooliganism aside.

Rule no.1 - Dont take twitter, facebook, talksport and golf forums to be a fair reflection of normal match going fans â€“ it isnâ€™t. 

Time to move on. It just shows that some people can talk like adults, despite club allegiances.:thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 30, 2014)

I have to say Fish I honestly haven't ever heard any chants about Frank Lampards mother or seen anything on any social media sites - hopefully I don't follow people that do that because fans who chants stuff like that are just vile scum - regardless of who they support. 

In the past I have had run ins with Chelsea fans - since 05 the atmosphere between the two sets of fans appears to have got very nasty - possibly because of the CL semi finals and playing each so many times over a short period. Also Rafa and Maureen had their running spat which seem to spill over to the fans. 

I was there at the semi final two years ago when we were supposed to have the minutes silence and it's was a lot of a Chelsea fans booing and chanting murderers - it wasn't 3 or 4 but in the hundreds - load enough that the ref was forced to abandon the minutes silence - understand your club banned a number of fans afterwards and publicly announced how disgraced they were. But it again happened at Swansea this year during the 25th anniversary and so far as LB no one from the club has come out and said anything - which is a shame really especially when everyone other club in the country ( and abroad ) recognised the minutes silence with massive respect. 

I don't think I will ever understand fans chanting towards people who have died etc - Liverpool Fans about Munich including. It disgusts me and really is a stain on our game at times. I think the game has tried very hard to kick racism out of the game and to stop the disgusting chants in our country but maybe they should now look at what fans chant - banter is great , mocking the dead crosses that line. As with Racism maybe make the clubs play to empty stadiums to force them to look further into the issues

If what has happened with the Hillsborough Memorial is true and the chanting on the train and they chants about Gerrards cousin are true I really fear what retaliation we will possibly see from some Liverpool fans ?!


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## chrisd (Apr 30, 2014)

I'd like to point out that Crystal Palace don't have a "firm" but there could be a couple of "sole traders" !


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## Liverpoolphil (May 22, 2014)

Maureen did an "ask Jose" on Twitter but then went a bit quiet with response 

Here is a selection of the tweets 

#AskJose - they were pretty much asking for it

After spending 110million pound, winning nothing and taking Chelsea from 3rd to 3rd, are you still the special one? #AskJose
â€” Ben Hosker (@BenHoska14) May 16, 2014

Did the ball go in? did the ball stay out? in out in out the kop was in no doubt we all went to Turkey and the Chelsea went out #AskJose
â€” Richard Hayes (@richphay) May 16, 2014

Was it a goal though? #AskJose pic.twitter.com/5N4DmtIK9u
â€” âš½ Karen âš½ (@Karen_LFC_YNWA) May 16, 2014

Do you believe a single word you say in the media? #AskJose
â€” LFCBankes (@nbankes) May 16, 2014

How does it feel to have won less European trophies at Chelsea than Rafa Benitez? #AskJose
â€” Tim Bolton (@timbolton1) May 16, 2014

How do you get @chelseafc to play such magnificent attractive football? You don't. #AskJose
â€” Ryan Beaumont (@RBeaumont9) May 16, 2014

How does it feel that a 'specialist in failure' is likely to win more than you after spending 70 million less? #AskJose
â€” Ben Hart (@BenlfcHart) May 16, 2014

When does parking the bus become tactical genius? #AskJose
â€” Kris 'Ridgie' Ridge (@goonerridge) May 16, 2014

#AskJose Do you think you'll ever get a chance to manage a big club in England?
â€” AG (@IDidSeeIt) May 16, 2014

How many defensive midfielders will you buy before you can truly say that it is your team? #AskJose
â€” AntiBarca2Ã–11 (@Antibarca2011) May 16, 2014

Are you now going to quit now that you have not won any trophies this season like you said you would? #AskJose
â€” Garry Casey (@GarryCasey) May 16, 2014

You're aware that designer stubbles are so 2007 aren't you #AskJose
â€” MelchettTLWâ„¢ (@MelchettTLW) May 16, 2014

Will you try to field two goalies and only nine defenders next season? #AskJose
â€” Fredrik Ivarsen (@iVarsFC) May 16, 2014

Are you going to answer all these questions sarcastically? #AskJose
â€” LFC0207 (@LFC0207) May 16, 2014

How come when @Arsenal don't win anything we're failures. When your team's don't win anything your building for next season?! #AskJose
â€” Kris 'Ridgie' Ridge (@goonerridge) May 16, 2014

#AskJose is ur next signing is a double decker bus? if true whats ur tactics? will it be reverse parking n line up like great wall of china?
â€” OhToBeAKFCGooner (@GoonerGetYahh) May 16, 2014

#AskJose how does it feel to spend Â£110m and yet finish third in the league?
â€” Luis Suarez (@Luis16saurez) May 16, 2014

Is there no Portuguese word for 'hypocrite'? #AskJose
â€” G David (@gil_i_am) May 16, 2014

How many goals did Eto'o, Torres and Ba score? #AskJose
â€” Transcendentalist. (@SunnanBehave) May 16, 2014

How does it feel that United selected Moyes over you for the United job ? #AskJose
â€” The Iceman CÃ¶meth (@sagar_tkd) May 16, 2014

What do you think about the pedestrianisation of Norwich city centre? #AskJose
â€” Ben (@4l2l2) May 16, 2014

considering it's 2 seasons without a trophy with Europe's biggest and most talented squads are you a #specialistinfailure ? #AskJose
â€” brdgunner (@brdgunner) May 16, 2014

#AskJose who is older.. Eto'o or you?
â€” Peter Adepoju (@peraisakop) May 15, 2014

How do u take a team that was 3rd in the PL & won a trophy in Europe, spend Â£115m & then have the front to say they can't compete? #AskJose
â€” Ryan (@Ry_x1) May 5, 2014


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## Foxholer (May 22, 2014)

:rofl: :rofl:

Somehow, I don't believe #AskJose is actually Maureen! Started by someone names Brenda? or Alison? 

But it will be *his* team next year, if he's still there, and he won't have any excuses!

He may need to convince a few of the players Chelsea has out on loan to play his way though. Shipping them off somewhere else is no longer a 'punishment' or option imo.


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## Papas1982 (May 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maureen did an "ask Jose" on Twitter but then went a bit quiet with response 

Here is a selection of the tweets 

#AskJose - they were pretty much asking for it

After spending 110million pound, winning nothing and taking Chelsea from 3rd to 3rd, are you still the special one? #AskJose
â€” Ben Hosker (@BenHoska14) May 16, 2014

Did the ball go in? did the ball stay out? in out in out the kop was in no doubt we all went to Turkey and the Chelsea went out #AskJose
â€” Richard Hayes (@richphay) May 16, 2014

Was it a goal though? #AskJose pic.twitter.com/5N4DmtIK9u
â€” âš½ Karen âš½ (@Karen_LFC_YNWA) May 16, 2014

Do you believe a single word you say in the media? #AskJose
â€” LFCBankes (@nbankes) May 16, 2014

How does it feel to have won less European trophies at Chelsea than Rafa Benitez? #AskJose
â€” Tim Bolton (@timbolton1) May 16, 2014

How do you get @chelseafc to play such magnificent attractive football? You don't. #AskJose
â€” Ryan Beaumont (@RBeaumont9) May 16, 2014

How does it feel that a 'specialist in failure' is likely to win more than you after spending 70 million less? #AskJose
â€” Ben Hart (@BenlfcHart) May 16, 2014

When does parking the bus become tactical genius? #AskJose
â€” Kris 'Ridgie' Ridge (@goonerridge) May 16, 2014

#AskJose Do you think you'll ever get a chance to manage a big club in England?
â€” AG (@IDidSeeIt) May 16, 2014

How many defensive midfielders will you buy before you can truly say that it is your team? #AskJose
â€” AntiBarca2Ã–11 (@Antibarca2011) May 16, 2014

Are you now going to quit now that you have not won any trophies this season like you said you would? #AskJose
â€” Garry Casey (@GarryCasey) May 16, 2014

You're aware that designer stubbles are so 2007 aren't you #AskJose
â€” MelchettTLWâ„¢ (@MelchettTLW) May 16, 2014

Will you try to field two goalies and only nine defenders next season? #AskJose
â€” Fredrik Ivarsen (@iVarsFC) May 16, 2014

Are you going to answer all these questions sarcastically? #AskJose
â€” LFC0207 (@LFC0207) May 16, 2014

How come when @Arsenal don't win anything we're failures. When your team's don't win anything your building for next season?! #AskJose
â€” Kris 'Ridgie' Ridge (@goonerridge) May 16, 2014

#AskJose is ur next signing is a double decker bus? if true whats ur tactics? will it be reverse parking n line up like great wall of china?
â€” OhToBeAKFCGooner (@GoonerGetYahh) May 16, 2014

#AskJose how does it feel to spend Â£110m and yet finish third in the league?
â€” Luis Suarez (@Luis16saurez) May 16, 2014

Is there no Portuguese word for 'hypocrite'? #AskJose
â€” G David (@gil_i_am) May 16, 2014

How many goals did Eto'o, Torres and Ba score? #AskJose
â€” Transcendentalist. (@SunnanBehave) May 16, 2014

How does it feel that United selected Moyes over you for the United job ? #AskJose
â€” The Iceman CÃ¶meth (@sagar_tkd) May 16, 2014

What do you think about the pedestrianisation of Norwich city centre? #AskJose
â€” Ben (@4l2l2) May 16, 2014

considering it's 2 seasons without a trophy with Europe's biggest and most talented squads are you a #specialistinfailure ? #AskJose
â€” brdgunner (@brdgunner) May 16, 2014

#AskJose who is older.. Eto'o or you?
â€” Peter Adepoju (@peraisakop) May 15, 2014

How do u take a team that was 3rd in the PL & won a trophy in Europe, spend Â£115m & then have the front to say they can't compete? #AskJose
â€” Ryan (@Ry_x1) May 5, 2014
		
Click to expand...

My think it's rather amusing that some people would think a, it's real and b, if it were it would be a q and a for rival fans to ask questions. 

As as many amusing questions as above could be asked to many a premiership team. What is it Chelsea fans sing. "Green is the colour".......


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