# England Football Team - managers job



## njrose51 (Jul 13, 2016)

I see the FA have opened talks with Sam Allardyce after Sunderland gave them permission. 

Is he a good fit - no real international experience?

Better than Hoddle surely?

What do we think? Could he get the best out of the players, get their passion back?


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## sawtooth (Jul 13, 2016)

It's certainly different and a change of thinking/approach is required so why not?

He gets my vote but Hoddle would be no.1 pick.

It's good to see the FA stick with selecting an Englishman.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 13, 2016)

After a shocking Euros someone as actually thought 'I know who could sort this team out,Big Sam' &#128547;

I've got nothing against Big Sam & he's a good manager in certain situations,but winning major tournaments certainly isn't one of them.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2016)

Another manager who has achieved nothing of note in his history beyond just keeping a club in the prem and a style of play stuck in the 70's 

What difference is there with the bloke that just left - it would be a typical gutless move from the FA


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## njrose51 (Jul 13, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Another manager who has achieved nothing of note in his history beyond just keeping a club in the prem and a style of play stuck in the 70's 

What difference is there with the bloke that just left - it would be a typical gutless move from the FA
		
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I agree in that I don't see how he has the all round experience to counter the Brazilians, the French, the Spanish or even Iceland etc. And yes, it could be seen as a gutless move or even a move that is one to please the British footballing public. But where else do we go? We have tried experienced mangers before - Capello and you couldn't really argue with his credentials and how did he do? I cant see Wenger doing it, they would be mad to go back to Hoddle. who else is in the running?


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## Hosel Fade (Jul 13, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Another manager who has achieved nothing of note in his history beyond just keeping a club in the prem and a style of play stuck in the 70's 

What difference is there with the bloke that just left - it would be a typical gutless move from the FA
		
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Managed in the premier league, generally not been rubbish despite what deluded west ham fans believe about his style of play. Took the turd that was the Sunderland squad (and I say this as a supporter) and kept them up with shrewd signings (admittedly not super relevant in international football) and playing a system that suits the playing personnel.

Take the last 19 games results and double the points, you would have a 9th place finish with a very poor squad. There are definite possibilities if you give him the sort of resources that are available to the FA.


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## Tongo (Jul 13, 2016)

It wont make a difference as to who they appoint. The England players dont have the necessary technique and ability to challenge at the sharp end of major tournaments. They also dont appear to have the right attitude. 

Having said that, Allardyce is a bad choice.


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## njrose51 (Jul 13, 2016)

Tongo said:



			It wont make a difference as to who they appoint. The England players dont have the necessary technique and ability to challenge at the sharp end of major tournaments. They also dont appear to have the right attitude. 

I think this is the key factor and was highlighted so well by Shearer in the Euros. (and by many others over the last umpteen months!) The Premier League is being supported by the influx of foreign players which our home grown 'talent' look good. they do not seem to have the fight, the passion, the ability to play together. Unless of course, the new manager can turn them round and find a team and system that works and then friggin' sticks to it so they can work together as a unit, then I fear we will never progress in future tournaments.
		
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## drewster (Jul 13, 2016)

I'm one of the deluded and was delighted to see the back of him and then bring Slaven in. It hasn't worked out too badly so far. That said, i think he'll be a perfect England manager, we're used to watching them being boring and losing but with Sam i think there will be structure, purpose, an identity and a strong work ethic. Like our Portuguese friends i'd be delighted to see us "win ugly" and actually do something at a major tournament.


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## Hobbit (Jul 13, 2016)

I don't like Big Sam at all, for his lack of grace after Middlesbrough beat Bolton in the League Cup final, but I'd give him a go. He did very well with some average players at Bolton. He improved West Ham, and he saved Sunderland. 

Whether he can do anything with England is another story. Attitude and application from the England prima Donna's is an issue he'll need to resolve, and then there's a few gaping holes in who to pick.  When you look at the shear number of foreign imports in the Prem and, conversely, see how few England players get exposure to European football because of that... its a big league but relatively few decent English players. Maybe getting away from always picking from the big clubs might help, e.g. Drinkwater's exclusion just to fit an unfit past it guy....


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## Hosel Fade (Jul 13, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			I don't like Big Sam at all, for his lack of grace after Middlesbrough beat Bolton in the League Cup final, but I'd give him a go. He did very well with some average players at Bolton. He improved West Ham, and he saved Sunderland. 

Whether he can do anything with England is another story. Attitude and application from the England prima Donna's is an issue he'll need to resolve, and then there's a few gaping holes in who to pick.  When you look at the shear number of foreign imports in the Prem and, conversely, see how few England players get exposure to European football because of that... its a big league but relatively few decent English players. Maybe getting away from always picking from the big clubs might help, e.g. Drinkwater's exclusion just to fit an unfit past it guy....
		
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See also Sturridge instead of Defoe, not even upset about the Rashford pick like so many were but what on earth were Wilshere and Sturridge doing on that plane. Also think Milner should have been ahead of at least Wilshere in the pecking order, still doesn't get the credit he deserves.

Can't make my mind up about Sterling, however he should certainly have been dropped during the tournament.


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## Hosel Fade (Jul 13, 2016)

drewster said:



			I'm one of the deluded and was delighted to see the back of him and then bring Slaven in. It hasn't worked out too badly so far. That said, i think he'll be a perfect England manager, we're used to watching them being boring and losing but with Sam i think there will be structure, purpose, an identity and a strong work ethic. Like our Portuguese friends i'd be delighted to see us "win ugly" and actually do something at a major tournament.
		
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For me it depends who takes the credit for your lot's excellent signings last season. Not sure how much is down to the management of Bilic vs a great performance in the transfer market. That squad is so much stronger than it was the season prior


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 13, 2016)

Whoever they choose they'll get my full support and I will judge them on results, good thing whoever it is, they'll get a full qualifying campaign and no expectancy on their shoulders after the dismal Euros.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 13, 2016)

Not one name on the list excited me so let's just see how it goes.


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## Crazyface (Jul 13, 2016)

Sounds good so far....most think Big Sam will be rubbish.  

He'll probably be awesome


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## MarkE (Jul 13, 2016)

I'd take Hoddle. But it's the players that are the problem, having little pride in playing for the country. After the Iceland debacle you would think they would be hiding in shame rather than living it up in Ibiza without a care in the world like Dele Alli.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 13, 2016)

So Sunderland have given the FA permission to talk to Mike Bassett...........oh wonderful.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2016)

I thought Klingsman was supposedly going to be talking to the FA as well. He's someone that can offer far more than Allardyce who I think is a poor choice


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## IainP (Jul 13, 2016)

I have no idea how Sam would do if appointed. Mulling over, big name managers are often good at spending cash to bring in their sort of players and building their team.
Other managers are chucked in to a tricky situation and make the best of what they have available to them. Sound anything like a national team manager?


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Jul 14, 2016)

This is a typical reaction to a woeful England performance.
Go back to the 70s and 80s and the problem was we couldn't keep the ball and just lumped it up to a strong centre forward. We needed to play more like France
Queue the foreign managers.
Then we had no passion we needed an Englishman.  We needed to play more like Germany.
Hodgson played a boring 4-4-2 and got slated. He then played 4-3-3 and the players let him down.
This time he was ready with the 4-3-3 but Vardy  came along so he tried the diamond and confused everyone so they froze. But we should have played like Portugal. 
Big Sam is the answer, but to the wrong question. Yes he'll get us playing strong, direct football with a good defensive structure, but then he'll get slated for not being skillful enough.
Hoddle has the ability to be understood by the players but his beliefs will get hounded by the press and he'll be outed again.
I thought the FA had finally decided on a plan when they picked Hodgson - play the 4-3-3 with a strong midfield and then we'd make the whole England set up feed in the same way so everyone knows their job. 
Hodgson was going that way but didn't quite have enough skills or strength to back himself - his lack of leadership fed into the team.
BUT
We were keeping the ball better than ever before. We just didn't defend properly.
So I think we need someone who can keep the ideal, just coach a better defensive system.
I can't see Sam doing that. He'll totally change the set up yet again.
Much as they are weak choices I think Pardue or Hughes are the best of a bad lot.
But not Sam. Please not Sam &#128557;


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Jul 14, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I thought Klingsman was supposedly going to be talking to the FA as well. He's someone that can offer far more than Allardyce who I think is a poor choice
		
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If you want to go foreign, go Bilic.


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Jul 14, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What difference is there with the bloke that just left - it would be a typical gutless move from the FA
		
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I think there's a huge difference.
Hodgson tried to buy into the corporate message (possession football - bring in the youth) but wasn't good enough.
Allardyce will do what he thinks best.IE strong defense, mature, safe choices. We'll have more Miner, less Alli. More Carroll Les Kane.
He'll fall foul of the media and be hated by the fans by Christmas.


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## sawtooth (Jul 14, 2016)

Oohmeoldbacksknackered said:



			I think there's a huge difference.
Hodgson tried to buy into the corporate message (possession football - bring in the youth) but wasn't good enough.
Allardyce will do what he thinks best.IE strong defense, mature, safe choices. We'll have more Miner, less Alli. More Carroll Les Kane.
He'll fall foul of the media and be hated by the fans by Christmas.
		
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I think that's a bit unfair on Alladyce. The one thing you are forgetting is that he has managed clubs with limited resources and to a large extent that has forced his hand in terms of who he buys and how he sets his teams out to play. Yes he tends to pack his team with strong, bustling , hard nosed experienced (has been) players but that's invariably what he has needed to do, not necessarily what he wanted to do. His safe, tried and tested formula that stops his teams leaking goals and makes them hard to beat won't be called into action so much with England.

He can pick whoever he wants without the worry and pressure of finances and relegation. I seem to recall that when his Bolton team were established as a top half table team it produced some wonderful football with the likes of  Okocha.

You will see the same with Sunderland eventually IMO.

I think fat Sam is an interesting choice and it might just be what England need. I can see him selecting players that have real passion and desire to play for the shirt instead of having over paid, pampered prime donnas that would rather be somewhere else.


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## Hobbit (Jul 14, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I think that's a bit unfair on Alladyce. The one thing you are forgetting is that he has managed clubs with limited resources and to a large extent that has forced his hand in terms of who he buys and how he sets his teams out to play. Yes he tends to pack his team with strong, bustling , hard nosed experienced (has been) players but that's invariably what he has needed to do, not necessarily what he wanted to do. His safe, tried and tested formula that stops his teams leaking goals and makes them hard to beat won't be called into action so much with England.

He can pick whoever he wants without the worry and pressure of finances and relegation. I seem to recall that when his Bolton team were established as a top half table team it produced some wonderful football with the likes of  Okocha.

You will see the same with Sunderland eventually IMO.

I think fat Sam is an interesting choice and it might just be what England need. I can see him selecting players that have real passion and desire to play for the shirt instead of having over paid, pampered prime donnas that would rather be somewhere else.
		
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Spot on for me.

I'd also ask the question about why so many people have the mindset that says England have to set up to play a certain way to counteract threats. Be aware of them definitely, but how about setting up the way we play best and letting the opposition worry about setting up to counteract that.

England have a habit of picking a team and then asking them to play in an alien way... I've never got that.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 14, 2016)

Big Sam 39% win record in all league games.
One English 3rd division title
One League of Ireland title.

Sounds like just the man that England needs.


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## One Planer (Jul 14, 2016)

I'd rather Pardew than Big Sam if I'm honest.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 14, 2016)

What's with the Bilic loving? 
He's just flavour of the month.


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Jul 14, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			What's with the Bilic loving? 
He's just flavour of the month.
		
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No. I liked the way he set up his team beat 
England in the run up to the 2008 Euros.


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## Big D 88 (Jul 14, 2016)

Cant believe you all knocking Big Sam 

Personally i think he'd be a great choice. Firstly, he gets results with poor teams. Internationally, England are poor (regardless of what the media hype about our players) He'll find a way to grind results in the more important games, ie a major tournament. I think any manager on the pro circuit could guide England through qualifying stages of either world cup or the world cup for that matter.

Secondly, he talks about England and the English game with passion. And lets face it, passion is one of those qualities we look for when describing the England team, 'cos talent inst one of them.

I cant help but think if Big Sam was in that dressing room at HT in the Iceland game, we'd of came out fighting and got through..


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Jul 15, 2016)

Personally I don't mind a defensive minded coach (Arsenal fan since late 60s). But it just seems a knee jerk reaction to one bad (terrible, bloody awful) game.
I thought the FA had decided the style they want England to use from the teenagers up. More Southampton than Man Utd. Once we had that it should be evolution to get better at it, irrespective of the manager.
Big Sam is a full on Revolution. Wipe everything clean and start again. He won't win anything, he just won't be spectacularly terrible.
The FA, the media and the most vocal fans will want more than that once we've rolled over a couple of minnows in qualifying and he'll start getting a terrible press after the honeymoon period.
Hodgson didn't have the skills to finish the job but he put a lot of good things in place (bringing youngsters through, keeping possession better, being comfortable on the ball, being more attack minded). The next manager should be given the remit to keep those good things but get better at the parts of the game we clearly lack.
None of the things Big Sam will do. He'll build on a strong defense. He likes to move the ball quickly. Having the majority of possession isn't one of his performance indicators. He's not ever been accused of bringing youngsters through.
He's very much a pragmatist. 

I think the FA should make sure they know exactly what they want from the next manager before deciding who they want to do it.


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Jul 15, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Big Sam 39% win record in all league games.
One English 3rd division title
One League of Ireland title.

Sounds like just the man that England needs.
		
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At least we need a manager with a passport&#128521;.


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Jul 15, 2016)

"I think any manager on the pro circuit could guide England through qualifying stages of either world cup or the world cup for that matter."

Maybe..
But what about the world cup?
&#128519;


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## Tongo (Jul 15, 2016)

Big D 88 said:



			Cant believe you all knocking Big Sam 

Personally i think he'd be a great choice. Firstly, he gets results with poor teams. Internationally, England are poor (regardless of what the media hype about our players) He'll find a way to grind results in the more important games, ie a major tournament. I think any manager on the pro circuit could guide England through qualifying stages of either world cup or the world cup for that matter.

Secondly, he talks about England and the English game with passion. And lets face it, passion is one of those qualities we look for when describing the England team, 'cos talent inst one of them.

I cant help but think if Big Sam was in that dressing room at HT in the Iceland game, we'd of came out fighting and got through..
		
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Just don't mention Newcastle.


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## Fyldewhite (Jul 15, 2016)

Big D 88 said:



			Cant believe you all knocking Big Sam 

Personally i think he'd be a great choice. Firstly, he gets results with poor teams. Internationally, England are poor (regardless of what the media hype about our players) He'll find a way to grind results in the more important games, ie a major tournament. I think any manager on the pro circuit could guide England through qualifying stages of either world cup or the world cup for that matter.

Secondly, he talks about England and the English game with passion. And lets face it, passion is one of those qualities we look for when describing the England team, 'cos talent inst one of them.

I cant help but think if Big Sam was in that dressing room at HT in the Iceland game, we'd of came out fighting and got through..
		
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I agree, but I would say that being a Bolton fan. What he does better than most is organisation and man management. Everyone has their job to do and knows what is expected. They certainly won't concede many goals like the Russian header and the Iceland throw-in. Dull football? Well is won't be 1970 Brazil that's for sure but Portugal have just won a tournament without too much flare and there is no way man for man they have better players than England but they had a team while we were a shambles.....and for that you can only blame the management team. I don't see many other managers who could do this job in the current circumstances. Big Sam could and I think should be given the chance.


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## Crazyface (Jul 15, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I thought Klingsman was supposedly going to be talking to the FA as well. He's someone that can offer far more than Allardyce who I think is a poor choice
		
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Like what exactly? What top team is he managing at the moment? He spends his time in the USA so is not even connected with the German FA


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Jul 16, 2016)

"I don't see many other managers who could do this job in the current circumstances. "
If we are going to try to stay British, realistically the options are:
Sam
Pardew
Hughes
Pulis
Bruce
Hoddle

I might be missing one or two but there aren't many more. Similarly there aren't that many foreign managers currently in a job who would want to swap it unless they get a ridiculous pay rise.

It's going some when managers like Southgate are distancing themselves from it....

Butch Wilkins anyone?

At least BSA wants it. I'm slowly coming round to the idea.... reluctantly.
&#128557;&#128557;


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## Fish (Jul 20, 2016)

Big Sam to be announced within next 24 hours!


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 20, 2016)

Tongo said:



			It wont make a difference as to who they appoint. The England players dont have the necessary technique and ability to challenge at the sharp end of major tournaments. They also dont appear to have the right attitude. 

Having said that, Allardyce is a bad choice.
		
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What he said.


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## One Planer (Jul 20, 2016)

Fish said:



			Big Sam to be announced within next 24 hours!
		
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Marvellous


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## freddielong (Jul 20, 2016)

We're changing the manager due to us never winning anything and were replacing him with someone who has never won anything, sounds like a good plan.


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## One Planer (Jul 20, 2016)

freddielong said:



			We're changing the manager due to us never winning anything and were replacing him with someone who has never won anything, sounds like a good plan.
		
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If anything big Sam is worse tactically than Woy.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 20, 2016)

Big Sam  England manager :smirk: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

No excuses now, he's got some good talent in that England squad let's see exactly what he's made of. 

I'm more concerned of those in charge who've picked him:mmm:


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## Stuart_C (Jul 20, 2016)

One Planer said:



			If anything big Sam is worse tactically than Woy.
		
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He's certainly no better.


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## Beezerk (Jul 20, 2016)

Well Sunderland fans certainly seem to be gutted, some reckon he'll do a good job with England. Can't get any worse like, we need someone who has the balls to drop players who were getting picked because of their surname, reputation and who they played for, hopefully big Sam is that man.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 20, 2016)

I feel sorry for the England Fans, they don't deserve Big Sam.


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## One Planer (Jul 20, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Big Sam  England manager :smirk: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

No excuses now, he's got some good talent in that England squad let's see exactly what he's made of. 

I'm more concerned of those in charge who've picked him:mmm:
		
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Flat back 5 it is then.


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## Fish (Jul 20, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Flat back 5 it is then.
		
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Flat back 5
Fat mid 4
Fit front 1

Plus 1 dodgy keeper for good measure &#128540;


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 20, 2016)

Steak and beans for pre-match meal, lads?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 20, 2016)

The FA just never learn 

They go from one English manager who has won nothing at the highest level to another who has won nothing at the highest level 

They will get the results of the level of the managers they keep employing 

How someone can be a CEO of a sport he hasn't a clue about 

Surely it can't happen with other countries FA


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## Beezerk (Jul 20, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They will get the results of the level of the managers they keep employing
		
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And here's me thinking a lot is to do with the massively overrated players that are in the team.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 20, 2016)

Beezerk said:



			And here's me thinking a lot is to do with the massively overrated players that are in the team.
		
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The players are certainly good enough to get into the later stages on tournaments - semis in Euros , quarters in WC and with a bit a luck maybe further. IF the players are played in their right positions with the tactics that suit the players then its going to be a big step forward. But the FA have bottled and gone for another Harry Bassett type manager who has don nothing beyond keeping smaller clubs in the Prem by using backyard route 1 tactics.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 20, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The players are certainly good enough to get into the later stages on tournaments - semis in Euros , quarters in WC and with a bit a luck maybe further. IF the players are played in their right positions with the tactics that suit the players then its going to be a big step forward. But the FA have bottled and gone for another Harry Bassett type manager who has don nothing beyond keeping smaller clubs in the Prem by using backyard route 1 tactics.
		
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Or maybe the FA have talked to people and done interviews and decided they've got the right man.
Maybe sometimes we should reserve judgement until we see how he does.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 20, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The players are certainly good enough to get into the later stages on tournaments - semis in Euros , quarters in WC and with a bit a luck maybe further. IF the players are played in their right positions with the tactics that suit the players then its going to be a big step forward. But the FA have bottled and gone for another Harry Bassett type manager who has don nothing beyond keeping smaller clubs in the Prem by using backyard route 1 tactics.
		
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Absolutely no evidence to suggest the players are that good.

Yes they play in the PL but the best players at most clubs in that League are foreign.  

A flaky goal-keeper, not even (at international level) average back line, lack of creativity in midfield but plenty of middle distance runners, no wingers who can deliver on a consistent basis and unproven strikers.

Not even Mourinho or Guardiola would feel confident about getting that lot to a World Cup QF.


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## Snelly (Jul 20, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The players are certainly good enough to get into the later stages on tournaments - semis in Euros , quarters in WC and with a bit a luck maybe further. IF the players are played in their right positions with the tactics that suit the players then its going to be a big step forward.
		
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............according to the terminally delusional, yes. 

Meanwhile, back on planet reality, the FA have appointed a manager that is commensurate with the capabilities of the available playing staff.  Overpaid, ineffective and hugely overhyped in advance of every major tournament. Oh, and all of them have won nowt.  Sweet FA in fact.


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## Tongo (Jul 21, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Absolutely no evidence to suggest the players are that good.

Yes they play in the PL but the best players at most clubs in that League are foreign.  

A flaky goal-keeper, not even (at international level) average back line, lack of creativity in midfield but plenty of middle distance runners, no wingers who can deliver on a consistent basis and unproven strikers.

Not even Mourinho or Guardiola would feel confident about getting that lot to a World Cup QF.
		
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Snelly said:



			............according to the terminally delusional, yes. 

Meanwhile, back on planet reality, the FA have appointed a manager that is commensurate with the capabilities of the available playing staff.  Overpaid, ineffective and hugely overhyped in advance of every major tournament. Oh, and all of them have won nowt.  Sweet FA in fact. 

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Every two years the cries are the same: the players are good enough, its the manager's fault! 

When will people learn?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 21, 2016)

As an England fan he's not my first choice and the glass half empty Homer would say with the young players we now have and have coming through, that his style will ensure another set of players miss the chance to impress on the biggest stage

He teams don't retain possession and have some of the lowest short pass accuracy numbers. Mind you we couldn't string two passes together against Iceland so he's not exactly taking us backwards there. I'm not an Allardyce fan but you have to give anyone a chance and he clearly has some ideas going forward that fit the FA vision. Slovakia away not an easy start so let's see what he does there before getting too worried. He could be the man to ignite the youngsters and give us a golden future. There again haven't we said that before?


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## Crazyface (Jul 21, 2016)

He'll do for me. God knows he's earned his opportunity. He's English too. Goes along with current thinking. 

Go Sammy  !! Go Sammy !!


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## Hosel Fade (Jul 21, 2016)

Honestly who would people rather have had

Howe who didn't want it?
Bruce?
Pardew?

Again we don't know what Allardyce is capable of with actual resources and whoever said hes tactically worse than Roy is just silly.

That is the man who put the premier league's leading scorer and 6'2" centre forward on corner duty and decided that bringing on Jack Wilshere was going to be the game changer. Who also picked a squad with 5 centre forwards in it and if I'm being generous two wide players when he was playing some sort of 4-3-3 or 4-1-4-1 depending on how you interpret it.

Could go on and on about Hodgson mind


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 21, 2016)

If he puts round pegs in round holes, finds a shape for the team and picks players who are fit and in form then he will be getting somewhere. It really doesn't sound that hard does it although the last 4 England managers failed to do any of those things. Maybe blunt Sam will be the first in a long time to use common sense. At least the qualifying group is pretty weak so he will have time to sort something out.


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## chrisd (Jul 21, 2016)

I'm not a great Sam fan either but he's always had to play with what players his clubs can afford and that rather dictates his style. Now he'll have the best players England have, and that should allow him to play a more expansive game. He always majors on a sound defence and not conceding goal so I hope that he manages to sort out a back 5 that look decidedly ordinary and an arrogant GK prone to errors!

I wish him well as I really do think we have some good players who could do well with a strategy and better bonding


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## Crazyface (Jul 21, 2016)

The goalie will be replaced unless his attitude changes. As for tactics, Sam is a great tactician and will make sure his back room staff are well trained and knowledgeable. 

I think he will be looking at a back three, as will most managers.


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## Hosel Fade (Jul 21, 2016)

Crazyface said:



			The goalie will be replaced unless his attitude changes. As for tactics, Sam is a great tactician and will make sure his back room staff are well trained and knowledgeable. I think he will be looking at a back three, as will most managers.
		
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Quite agree with this, we have a lack of top notch central defenders and wingers yet plenty of fullbacks that fancy themselves as wingers. Seems a sensible way to go around this issue and enable the use of two strikers


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## Papas1982 (Jul 21, 2016)

Hosel Fade said:



			Quite agree with this, we have a lack of top notch central defenders and wingers yet plenty of fullbacks that fancy themselves as wingers. Seems a sensible way to go around this issue and enable the use of two strikers
		
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maybe he could get hoddle on board, that was always a fav of his.


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## PieMan (Jul 21, 2016)

My brother played under him for a couple of months when he was Bolton manager in the side that contained Okocha, Campo etc. He only had good things to say about Big Sam as a manager and the way he went about his business. He was probably the first English manager that embraced sports science and technology to aid his players alongside 'English' team bonding methods (he still speaks fondly of the day the Bolton side turned up for training and were instead taken to a pub where the order of the day was a few beers, roast lunch, and pub games involving pool, darts, skittles and shove happeny!!)

Apparently the foreign players loved it!

Whilst he wouldn't have been my first choice, I think he'll actually do a very good job. The players will certainly be under no illusions as to who's in charge!


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## Piece (Jul 21, 2016)

Not my first choice either, but it could have been worse. Happy to give him a chance, just none of this long ball stuff please.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

The FA shouldn't be giving managers "chances". 

IMO the England manager should be the best available man for the job regardless of nationality, Allardyce is not in that criteria. 

Embarrassing decision.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 21, 2016)

For me it should always been an Englishman. 

I know in other sports (cricket and rugby) we take anyone who's gran had a one nighter with a visitor. But I like the idea of a nations best against anothers. 

I genuinely wouldn't take satisfaction if an adopted player, januzi for for example scored for us if he'd chosen to represent us. Same for the manager. 

I know lots of other nations have. Some with success, some without. But I'd much rather lose as England than win with others in charge. 

Out of of curiosity though, who is currently the best available that England could expect to attract?


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			For me it should always been an Englishman. 

I know in other sports (cricket and rugby) we take anyone who's gran had a one nighter with a visitor. But I like the idea of a nations best against anothers. 

I genuinely wouldn't take satisfaction if an adopted player, januzi for for example scored for us if he'd chosen to represent us. Same for the manager. 

I know lots of other nations have. Some with success, some without. But I'd much rather lose as England than win with others in charge. 

Out of of curiosity though, who is currently the best available that England could expect to attract?
		
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The FA pay top money,always have done. 

Hiddink is available.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 21, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			The FA pay top money,always have done. 

Hiddink is available.
		
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Who just flopped with Holland.....

He's a bigger name certainly. But a good first stint aside. Has managed lots of nations without any massive success imo. So not sure it suggests he'd be any better with England.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 21, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Who just flopped with Holland.....

He's a bigger name certainly. But a good first stint aside. Has managed lots of nations without any massive success imo. So not sure it suggests he'd be any better with England.
		
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Hiddink has won big titles in club management including the European Cup

Took Holland to semi of WC
South Korea Semi's of WC
Russia to Semi's of Euros

Fat Sam took Bolton to a Carling Cup final once - you can't compare the two 

If the FA continue to look towards the same type of English manager then they will have a team that continues to fail - Taylor , McClaren , Hodgson , Keegan even Hoddle messed up in the WC


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## Papas1982 (Jul 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hiddink has won big titles in club management including the European Cup

Took Holland to semi of WC
South Korea Semi's of WC
Russia to Semi's of Euros

Fat Sam took Bolton to a Carling Cup final once - you can't compare the two 

If the FA continue to look towards the same type of English manager then they will have a team that continues to fail - Taylor , McClaren , Hodgson , Keegan even Hoddle messed up in the WC
		
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Sven and capello  oath had records too and how did they do?

Sam hasn't had a shot with an Intl team yet so a record can't be compared. But all I'll say is he hasn't left a team when given a full season, in a worse state than when he took over. 

If saints ever had him in charge I wouldn't grumble. Think he's massively underrated, as someone pointed out earlier, he was one of the first to really implement sports science and has made upsetting the favourites quite a big part of his career. 

Id say england have much more chance winning something whilst playing as underdogs, than turning up and thinking we're good enough.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 21, 2016)

As Hiddink is now nearly 70 it is hard to imagine he would want the England job, certainly on a medium to long term basis.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Who just flopped with Holland.....

He's a bigger name certainly. But a good first stint aside. Has managed lots of nations without any massive success imo. So not sure it suggests he'd be any better with England.
		
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He's got better credentials than Allardyce.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			As Hiddink is now nearly 70 it is hard to imagine he would want the England job, certainly on a medium to long term basis.
		
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Can you honestly see Allardyce as England manager in 4yrs time?


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## Beezerk (Jul 21, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			He's got better credentials than Allardyce.
		
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I honestly don't think credentials matter at the moment, getting players to work as a team is top priority imo.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Sven and capello  oath had records too and how did they do?

Sam hasn't had a shot with an Intl team yet so a record can't be compared. But all I'll say is he hasn't left a team when given a full season, in a worse state than when he took over. 

If saints ever had him in charge I wouldn't grumble. Think he's massively underrated, as someone pointed out earlier, he was one of the first to really implement sports science and has made upsetting the favourites quite a big part of his career. 

*Id say england have much more chance winning something whilst playing as underdogs, than turning up and thinking we're good enough*.
		
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Do you honestly believe that? 

England's elite players are taught to believe in themselves, footballers in general play better when they believed their own ability.

And let's be honest under Hodgson the expectations of the England side had never been so low.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

Beezerk said:



			I honestly don't think credentials matter at the moment, getting players to work as a team is top priority imo.
		
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Judging him on his last job, Chelsea looked a complete different side under Hiddink than the same squad of players did under Mourinho no?


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## Papas1982 (Jul 21, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Do you honestly believe that? 

England's elite players are taught to believe in themselves, footballers in general play better when they believed their own ability.

And let's be honest under Hodgson the expectations of the England side had never been so low.
		
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Yes. 

Did the players look like they believed in themselves this summer?

Just because they play in our league I'm not sure many of our players are the true elite ones at their clubs. 

How many players do we have that would grace a top intl team?


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## Hosel Fade (Jul 21, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Yes. 

Did the players look like they believed in themselves this summer?

Just because they play in our league I'm not sure many of our players are the true elite ones at their clubs. 

How many players do we have that would grace a top intl team?
		
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Danny Rose, thats about it, mainly because pretty much no one has a quality left back. Arguments might be made for Kane but he showed nothing at the tournament


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Yes. 

Did the players look like they believed in themselves this summer?

Just because they play in our league I'm not sure many of our players are the true elite ones at their clubs. 

How many players do we have that would grace a top intl team?
		
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Yes, I think all of them believe in their own ability. Believing in a mangers tactics and game plan is a different matter. It was blatantly obvious the problems in France, they were the same in Brazil.

England team are made up of the top English elite players.  I never said those players were the best at their clubs.

The last question is hypothetical.


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## Beezerk (Jul 21, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Judging him on his last job, Chelsea looked a complete different side under Hiddink than the same squad of players did under Mourinho no?
		
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Dunno mate, I just remember they turned tripe after the doctor malarky and got slightly less tripe after Mourinho left.
That's not for this thread anyway.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 21, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Yes, I think all of them believe in their own ability. Believing in a mangers tactics and game plan is a different matter. It was blatantly obvious the problems in France, they were the same in Brazil.

England team are made up of the top English elite players.  I never said those players were the best at their clubs.

The last question is hypothetical.
		
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we lost to Iceland!

i don't think anyone can take the blame for that except the players. 

Hodgson had to go as his changes were clueless, but the players that started and came on in that came should have got the job done whether me, you or guardiola were on the bench.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 21, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			we lost to Iceland!

i don't think anyone can take the blame for that except the players. 

Hodgson had to go as his changes were clueless, but the players that started and came on in that came should have got the job done whether me, you or guardiola were on the bench.
		
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With that squad a better manager would have got more out of the players - would have played the players in their correct position and used better tactics especially tactics suited to the players and would have IMO got better results in the group stages and also in the KO - the manager takes responsibility for setting the team up and the tactics they employ - a non league manager could have done a better job with those players than Hodgson. The players England have got are talented with some areas to improve but they should be doing better than what they have done for the last three tournaments - that is because of the manager and that's why they finally got rid of him.


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			With that squad a better manager would have got more out of the players - *would have played the players in their correct position and used better tactics especially tactics suited to the players* and would have IMO got better results in the group stages and also in the KO - the manager takes responsibility for setting the team up and the tactics they employ - a non league manager could have done a better job with those players than Hodgson. *The players England have got are talented* with some areas to improve but they should be doing better than what they have done for the last three tournaments - that is because of the manager and that's why they finally got rid of him.
		
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But how long have we been saying both of the things highlighted in bold above. We know that you don't like Hodgson but it hasn't just been him. We've had Scholes playing out wide to allow both Gerrard and Lampard to play in the middle in the past. It goes way back LP and we need a manager with the balls to pick players based on fitness and form and not because they play for the "right" clubs or have pictures of the manager in compromising positions or whatever other reason it is that managers keep making the same mistakes over and over again. And then once we've picked the players that are in form we need a manager that will play them in the positions they are used to playing for their clubs.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 21, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			The FA shouldn't be giving managers "chances". 

IMO the England manager should be the best available man for the job regardless of nationality, Allardyce is not in that criteria. 

Embarrassing decision.
		
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Stuart_C said:



			The FA pay top money,always have done. 

Hiddink is available.
		
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Stuart_C said:



			He's got better credentials than Allardyce.
		
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Stuart_C said:



			Can you honestly see Allardyce as England manager in 4yrs time?
		
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Stuart_C said:



			Do you honestly believe that? 

England's elite players are taught to believe in themselves, footballers in general play better when they believed their own ability.

And let's be honest under Hodgson the expectations of the England side had never been so low.
		
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Stuart_C said:



			Judging him on his last job, Chelsea looked a complete different side under Hiddink than the same squad of players did under Mourinho no?
		
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Stuart_C said:



			Yes, I think all of them believe in their own ability. Believing in a mangers tactics and game plan is a different matter. It was blatantly obvious the problems in France, they were the same in Brazil.

England team are made up of the top English elite players.  I never said those players were the best at their clubs.

The last question is hypothetical.
		
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English, not scouse.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 21, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			But how long have we been saying both of the things highlighted in bold above. We know that you don't like Hodgson but it hasn't just been him. We've had Scholes playing out wide to allow both Gerrard and Lampard to play in the middle in the past. It goes way back LP and we need a manager with the balls to pick players based on fitness and form and not because they play for the "right" clubs or have pictures of the manager in compromising positions or whatever other reason it is that managers keep making the same mistakes over and over again. And then once we've picked the players that are in form we need a manager that will play them in the positions they are used to playing for their clubs.
		
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It's not just Hodgson and during the qualifiers he looked at times to be picking form players - until it came to finals , Capello just wasn't right , McClaren was even worse - Sven had England at right about the right level - Quarters just missing out a few times on shootouts etc , Keegan was the same as all the other English and Fat Sam will be no different - he will go with what has worked for him in the Prem but just like Hodgson , McClaren , Keegan lack that extra edge to take them the next step up from "mid table managerial" 

The best managers get the best players together and work out the best tactics that suit them and get the best results - England do have some talented players and have done over the years , they haven't had that one global superstar or making the right choice at the right time but they should be doing better than what they have done in the past 4 years


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## Papas1982 (Jul 21, 2016)

Whilst a manager takes blames for tactics. The players were just as accountable as hodgson for the Iceland game. They have no hiding place after that imo. 

to be a top manager, or thought of as one at least. You need a break, and then to take it. Some take that chance, some don't, and some are still waiting for one. 

Sam hasn't had a chance at a club that's even been expected to do well. I remember the class players he had at Bolton. They weren't all about the long ball.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			English, not scouse. 

Click to expand...



'Koff la, I touted Big Sam minutes after Mr Hodgson departed.

At least when we lose before an international break, big Sams football will give me a smile or two.

SNE


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## Stuart_C (Jul 21, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Whilst a manager takes blames for tactics. The players were just as accountable as hodgson for the Iceland game. They have no hiding place after that imo. 

to be a top manager, or thought of as one at least. You need a break, and then to take it. Some take that chance, some don't, and some are still waiting for one. 

Sam hasn't had a chance at a club that's even been expected to do well. I remember the class players he had at Bolton. They weren't all about the long ball.
		
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So he's totally unproven in the highest echelons of football yet he's suitable for thee gland job?

Alright. At least he'll sing GSTQ at full pelt along with Phil brown and Kevin Davies as his coaches:rofl:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 21, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			So he's totally unproven in the highest echelons of football yet he's suitable for thee gland job?

Alright. At least he'll sing GSTQ at full pelt along with Phil brown and Kevin Davies as his coaches:rofl:
		
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Worked for Bilic and Klinsman, whose to say he can't make a success of it.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 22, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Worked for Bilic and Klinsman, whose to say he can't make a success of it.
		
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Haha Allardyce is a yard dog manager, he'll ruin what's left of the talent those players had.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 22, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			So he's totally unproven in the highest echelons of football yet he's suitable for thee gland job?

Alright. At least he'll sing GSTQ at full pelt along with Phil brown and Kevin Davies as his coaches:rofl:
		
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no English manager has the credentials most would like. Because the fa and the premier league have no care for one another. 

The orem is all about success and the clubs seem to think that a young foreign manager is more attractive than a young English one. 

The he same with players, cheap options instead of inflated English ones. Unfortunateky I think it does t matter who's in charge of England, their hands will be tied.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 22, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha Allardyce is a yard dog manager, he'll ruin what's left of the talent those players had.
		
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Every club he's been at has had flair players, but he gets them working as a team and solid, Bilic had no credentials as a manager and Croatia took a chance, Big Sam will do alright.


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 22, 2016)

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/fa-says-fk-it-what-does-it-matter-20160721111165


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## Beezerk (Jul 22, 2016)

Scousers in "tell the rest of the world how to play football" shocker!!!


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## Crazyface (Jul 22, 2016)

Sam is ENGLISH and thank God for that. He'll sort out those wasters in the England team who think they are better than they are. Rooney lad, you're a striker, if you don't want to play there, we've got plenty (at the moment) that can etc etc. 

I cannot believe there are so many of you on here that are slagging him off before he's even start the job. I for one will be backing him all the way. I hated Woy, Sven and Capello and am dead chuffed we've got a real English bulldog in charge.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 22, 2016)

Crazyface said:



			Sam is ENGLISH and thank God for that. He'll sort out those wasters in the England team who think they are better than they are. Rooney lad, you're a striker, if you don't want to play there, we've got plenty (at the moment) that can etc etc. 

I cannot believe there are so many of you on here that are slagging him off before he's even start the job. I for one will be backing him all the way. I hated Woy, Sven and Capello and am dead chuffed we've got a real English bulldog in charge.
		
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Oh dear I have this Harry Enfield's two pub characters image of Sam ...........I'D SAY......OI ..ROONEY..............in my head now.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 22, 2016)

Crazyface said:



			Sam is ENGLISH and thank God for that. He'll sort out those wasters in the England team who think they are better than they are. Rooney lad, you're a striker, if you don't want to play there, we've got plenty (at the moment) that can etc etc. 

I cannot believe there are so many of you on here that are slagging him off before he's even start the job. I for one will be backing him all the way. I hated Woy, Sven and Capello and am dead chuffed we've got a real English bulldog in charge.
		
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Sounds like the first choice of the little Ingurlanders, then.:thup:


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## Hosel Fade (Jul 22, 2016)

Beezerk said:



			Scousers in "tell the rest of the world how to play football" shocker!!!


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Could have had the magnificent prophet of football who proclaims that the opposition should feel blessed to watch their expression of passing. Or some similarly annoying entitled manager that doesn't have a plan B like Wenger or Martinez.


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 22, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha Allardyce is a yard dog manager, he'll ruin what's left of the talent those players had.
		
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As opposed to Hodgson, Sven and Capello who all brought out the best in our players and made them world beaters? Personally I don't think Allardyce is the right man for the job but I'm not going to slate him until he's had a chance to prove himself and can he really do much worse than we've seen in recent times?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 22, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			As opposed to Hodgson, Sven and Capello who all brought out the best in our players and made them world beaters? Personally I don't think Allardyce is the right man for the job but I'm not going to slate him until he's had a chance to prove himself and can he really do much worse than we've seen in recent times?
		
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I agree. Not my personal choice for manager but he's got a friendly before the WC qualifier against Slovakia so lets see what he does in these two games before forming any real opinion. He certainly hasn't got a lot to be assuming we qualify


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## Norrin Radd (Jul 22, 2016)

do us proud SAM :thup:


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 22, 2016)

Hear they may be a few transfer deals come under new scrutiny #panorama


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Jul 23, 2016)

Crazyface said:



			I cannot believe there are so many of you on here that are slagging him off before he's even start the job. ..........

i hated Woy.......
		
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I sniff a double standard &#128523;

I've said it before, Roy wasn't all bad. He tried to set the team up to play 'good' international football, the way we used to be told it had to be played. It's all about possession. England don't keep the ball well enough. Blah blah.

Well that team kept possession, but they had no idea what to do with it.

I'm not saying he didn't have to go, but he brought in a whole new batch of young players and told them to push forward, he just didn't give them the right tactics.

Sam's philosophy is to use older, seasoned pros. So either he'll keep his traditional strengths and we'll lose a generation of young talent. Or he'll change his historical game plan and end up confused and lost exactly the way Roy did.

The best we can hope for is 'One nil to the In-ger-land'

Can't wait...&#128564;


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Jul 23, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Personally I don't think Allardyce is the right man for the job but I'm not going to slate him until he's had a chance to prove himself and can he really do much worse than we've seen in recent times?
		
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I fear yes, but I sincerely hope not 

I'm not slating him so much as the FA. I thought they were supposed to have a plan in place to progress English football. 
Set a system in place from the top down. Play a certain style and gradually improve, strengthening the squad for 2020 and beyond.

Hodgson had to go, but they're chucking the baby out with the bath water. 

Let's start from scratch with a new plan. Again!?!.: The last plan was OK we just needed to stick with it and grow a young manager into position in 4 years time.

This is just another example of poor management from the FA. If we need a new plan we should start from the top down and sack the lot


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## Stuart_C (Sep 26, 2016)

Big Sam being caught out again. He should be sacked.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ation-england-manager-sam-allardyce-for-sale/


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 26, 2016)

Unbelievable, what a clown, all credibility gone. Should walk before he's pushed.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Unbelievable, what a clown, all credibility gone. Should walk before he's pushed.
		
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I'm sure the bumbling oafs at The FA will make some sort of excuse for him to stay.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 27, 2016)

cant see him escaping if the FA  have any credibility he has to go.


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## freddielong (Sep 27, 2016)

D oh, bye bye Sam bye bye.

He cannot escape that and has to go.

At least he leaves with a 100% record in competitive games not many can say that.

Well done Sam you mug.


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## sawtooth (Sep 27, 2016)

How embarrassing, I cant see him staying after this.

Bring back Hoddle (he has served his time now).


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			cant see him escaping if the FA  have any credibility he has to go.
		
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Haha the FA and credibility??:rofl:


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 27, 2016)

Surely he'll have to go unless there's the usual whitewash at the FA and it's swept under the carpet. It was either very arrogant or very stupid but if he does go, who do we get next?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Surely he'll have to go unless there's the usual whitewash at the FA and it's swept under the carpet. It was either very arrogant or very stupid but if he does go, who do we get next?
		
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You've missed a reason, Greed.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 27, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			You've missed a reason, Greed.
		
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True. However does the lack of credible replacements mean he'll get away with it?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			True. However does the lack of credible replacements mean he'll get away with it?
		
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It shouldn't be, he's hardly a Pep or a Hose A is he.


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## chrisd (Sep 27, 2016)

I'm willing to bet he stays


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

chrisd said:



			I'm willing to bet he stays
		
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He's got previous he'll definitely stay.

The FA investigation shouldn't take long,  the evidence  is compelling.

 his agent needs to be  struck off the list too after his comments.


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## Fyldewhite (Sep 27, 2016)

Oh dear. I'm a massive fan of big Sam but I suppose this was always his skeleton, his Achilles heel. When he was appointed I said he'll do OK if the press allow him to but thought it would take longer for a story like this to appear.....but it was always going to.

I'm sure the FA will look at the facts not the headlines. Looking at the quotes at the bottom of the link there's not much that anyone would disagree with. The filmed comments on 3rd parties look damning but all he's saying (from what I've seen) is that there are ways around it....which there undoubtedly are. Not, as they'd have you believe, that he's offering to sort stuff out etc. In the other clip they were showing this morning he's actually saying that "you can't say that these days", "it was done 20 years ago but not nowadays" etc. Again, just the truth, hardly compelling. If those are the most damaging clips from a 4 hour conversation then I'm sceptical of the whole report tbh.

Hope I'm right and it's all trumped up rubbish to make a story but it's part of a much bigger "investigation" so lets see what turns up. If he's actually done something wrong aside from a few loose comments then he's obviously got to go but naive and stupid he is not......and he would have to have been for this to stick as it's being portrayed. Looking forward to his response though!


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 27, 2016)

How can an England manager stay when he is employed by the FA and he is on tape advising how to get around FA rules? If he remains then the FA will have bottled it and will have no credibility. How can they complain about corruption at FIFA if their own manager is promoting how to get around official rules. Sheer ugly greed.


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 27, 2016)

"Deep Pockets.
Mike Basset...England manager the sequel."

The whole thing is a total farce. And we/the FA were castigating FIFA  for its corrupt practices.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 27, 2016)

Can I castigate him within an inch of his life, but then make excuses if a Liverpool manager/player/official is also caught up in it?


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 27, 2016)

LB - Could be relevant. I believe the Telegraph are releasing more football related stuff this week. Apparently they have been investigating transfers for about 10 months and the Allardyce sting came at the very end. They are going to release info about bungs and slices of transfer fees going to managers and assistant managers. There will be quite a few nervous people sat around today.


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## Rlburnside (Sep 27, 2016)

Just watching the bbc news,  not looking good for Sam, strange (if true) to do such a stupid thing after getting the job he always wanted.

Wouldnt surprise me if the FA concocted some way of keeping him.

Best move the FA could make is to give Hoddle another go.


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## freddielong (Sep 27, 2016)

Rlburnside said:



			Just watching the bbc news,  not looking good for Sam, strange (if true) to do such a stupid thing after getting the job he always wanted.

Wouldnt surprise me if the FA concocted some way of keeping him.

Best move the FA could make is to give Hoddle another go.
		
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Really Hoddle let's get over this scandal by appointing that vile individual with his ridiculous medieval views that sounds like a good plan.


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## GB72 (Sep 27, 2016)

I reckon he is going to get the boot. The PR people would have had him out apologising and on damage limitation if there was any intention of keeping him. Half a day of silence allowing the rumours and speculation to run riot is one hell of a lot of time if the intention is to let him keep his job.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 27, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Can I castigate him within an inch of his life, but then make excuses *when* a Liverpool manager/player/official is also caught up in it?

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there all at it!



Â£12m for Bebe.... :mmm:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			there all at it!



Â£12m for Bebe.... :mmm:
		
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Some of the rubbish Rodgers bought he must've had a back hander, especially Balotelli


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## PhilTheFragger (Sep 27, 2016)

Problem with this type of "Sting" journalism is that parts of the video can be edited to show whatever you want it to show. So before making any judgement, I would want to see unedited footage.

Surely if a meeting is arranged with people you dont know and they start talking about "shady" deals, wouldnt that set alarm bells ringing in your brain cell?

Id start asking where the camera was, 

Not a fan of this entrapment type of expose,  Certainly not from The Telegraph ( does anyone still read it?)


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## Papas1982 (Sep 27, 2016)

Only thing i can see he's done wrong is talking of potential ways to get around loopholes. 

Moking Roy, or saying FA wasted money on Wembley is only what millions have said before. Granted it's distasteful, but no more than that for me. 

He cant complain if he's shown the door. But in a sport when sportsmanship is long gone, I don't think it's such a scandal. 

What at hoddle said was worse IMO.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

Gone.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 27, 2016)

The problem the FA face is that they aren't fully in control of the situation. The Telegraph have more details to reveal and of course it will depend when they want to do this. They will inevitably want to eek this out for as long as they can and while they do so it makes it hard for the FA to know the full scale of the fall out


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The problem the FA face is that they aren't fully in control of the situation. The Telegraph have more details to reveal and of course it will depend when they want to do this. They will inevitably want to eek this out for as long as they can and while they do so it makes it hard for the FA to know the full scale of the fall out
		
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It's the correct decision. The FA can't defend Sam when they've been very vocal about FIFA and the corruption within that organisation.

I hope it was worth it for a potential lousy Â£400k.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 27, 2016)

So he leaves with a 100% win rate.

And Bilic should soon be available &#129300;


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			So he leaves with a 100% win rate.

And Bilic should soon be available &#129300;
		
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Lallana saved his fat head though


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## paddyc (Sep 27, 2016)

Well Big "Bung" Sam has gone after one games.After some optimism that we could make some real progress under him we are back to square one. So who the hell does the job now?


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## User62651 (Sep 27, 2016)

Let Eddie Howe have a go - young, driven, plays expansive team football and is clearly more intelligent than most. Couldn't do any worse than those before.

Big Sam is no loss, route one tactics, Stoke City/Wigan/Blackburn is about his level at best.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 27, 2016)

How embarassing, 
Will Southgate be caretaker until we find some one?


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## shewy (Sep 27, 2016)

You can have Gordon Strachan


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 27, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Lallana saved his fat head though

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Lets make this all about Liverpool &#128580; &#128556;


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 27, 2016)

Who else was interviewed? I have a feeling Steve Bruce made the shortlist and he is currently available. Not much time since the interviews so unless he had a mare at the interview he could walk into it without any fuss or pay off.


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## Piece (Sep 27, 2016)

Oh dear Big Sam. Tut tut. Next job in the Far East, as they love you there 

Would like to see Eddie However in charge.


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## sawtooth (Sep 27, 2016)

maxfli65 said:



			Let Eddie Howe have a go - young, driven, plays expansive team football and is clearly more intelligent than most. Couldn't do any worse than those before.

Big Sam is no loss, route one tactics, Stoke City/Wigan/Blackburn is about his level at best.
		
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Anyone but Southgate, Bruce and Pardew , I just don't fancy any of that lot.


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## User62651 (Sep 27, 2016)

Wonder if those Telegraph journalists are patting themselves on the back, bunch of saddos if you ask me, they should be reporting the news, not making it and setting up stings just to make trouble. Course Sam shouldn't have been so thick to fall for it, not too bright I fear.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Lets make this all about Liverpool &#128580; &#128556;
		
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No,just stating a fact that Lallana saved his backside.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 27, 2016)

Sam resigns. I guess he knew the rest of the Telegraph evidence would be damming. Where now? Southgate? Bruce? A poisoned chalice if ever there was one


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

maxfli65 said:



			Wonder if those Telegraph journalists are patting themselves on the back, bunch of saddos if you ask me, they should be reporting the news, not making it and setting up stings just to make trouble. Course Sam shouldn't have been so thick to fall for it, not too bright I fear.
		
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You obviously don't understand how investigative journalism works do you?

Allardyce only has himself to blame, he had the dream job earning Â£3m per year and through greed has lost the lot. 

I suspect him and his agent will be parting company.


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## SteveJay (Sep 27, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			You obviously don't understand how investigative journalism works do you?

Allardyce only has himself to blame, he had the dream job earning Â£3m per year and through greed has lost the lot. 

I suspect him and his agent will be parting company.
		
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Absolutely....harped on for ages about how he always wanted this job (even though he said he would never re-apply after being turned down before). So then, when he finally gets his dream job he is so greedy and stupid he does this. 
Bloody idiot.


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## sawtooth (Sep 27, 2016)

Southgate in charge for next 4 games. Joy.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Southgate in charge for next 4 games. Joy.
		
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Not my choice, but nothing else the FA can do, it's an international break next week, I don't think they can rush into anything.


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## sawtooth (Sep 27, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Not my choice, but nothing else the FA can do, it's an international break next week, I don't think they can rush into anything.
		
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You just know that he will get 4 wins and will then get the job full time.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			You just know that he will get 4 wins and will then get the job full time.
		
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Can't see it. You do realise one of those games is against Scotland?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			You just know that he will get 4 wins and will then get the job full time.
		
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At least he'll have a better record than the last one&#128515;


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

He may have had 100% record but the performance wasn't much better than what Mr Hodgsons sides served up recently.

I actually think this will be a blessing in disguise for England.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 27, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			He may have had 100% record but the performance wasn't much better than what Mr Hodgsons sides served up recently.

I actually think this will be a blessing in disguise for England.
		
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Depends who comes in after. 
I don't get the love in with Howe. Lots moaned about the last two and their lack of silverware. Well that's not improved with Howes Cv. 

Cant believe he was so stupid. 400k when on 3m. IDIOT!


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 27, 2016)

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Just when you thought the circus couldn't get any funnier 

Sam had previous that he got away with and has been caught out good and proper :rofl:

Could actually be a blessing for the FA


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## Midnight (Sep 27, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			He may have had 100% record but the performance wasn't much better than what Mr Hodgsons sides served up recently.

I actually think this will be a blessing in disguise for England.
		
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So who would you choose next then mate ? No fantasy one /has to be someone who you think would actually do the job. Sorry if you have already said but to many posts for me to read mate.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 27, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			He may have had 100% record but the performance wasn't much better than what Mr Hodgsons sides served up recently.

I actually think this will be a blessing in disguise for England.
		
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So prem managers need time to make the team their own,but you expected Sam to transform the team after a few days with the players?


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 27, 2016)

Midnight said:



			So who would you choose next then mate ? No fantasy one /has to be someone who you think would actually do the job. Sorry if you have already said but to many posts for me to read mate.
		
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This is the problem.
everyone is an expert,but realistically who do we go for?
It's easy to slate the chosen manager.


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## AmandaJR (Sep 27, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Just when you thought the circus couldn't get any funnier 

Sam had previous that he got away with and has been caught out good and proper :rofl:

Could actually be a blessing for the FA
		
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Agreed. What a farce, but no surprise he's been stupid, and found him embarrassing before this!


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 27, 2016)

Midnight said:



			So who would you choose next then mate ? No fantasy one /has to be someone who you think would actually do the job. Sorry if you have already said but to many posts for me to read mate.
		
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Right now I think the best choice would be Hiddink with a younger guy alongside him 

Would be good to see someone like Murphy come away from the studio and work alongside someone like that as well as people like Southgate or even Howe


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 27, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			He may have had 100% record but the performance wasn't much better than what Mr Hodgsons sides served up recently.

I actually think this will be a blessing in disguise for England.
		
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Behave, 1 game, impossible to judge,


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 27, 2016)

They should get Klinsman, and give him the tools, time and money (if needed) to turn the National team around just as he did with the Germans.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 27, 2016)

I was speaking to a German last week about Klinnsmann. He thought we'd had a close escape with him. Apparently he is not rated in Germany as a coach. The real coaching during his team was done by a Herr Joachim Low. Whatever happened to him.........


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 27, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I was speaking to a German last week about Klinnsmann. He thought we'd had a close escape with him. Apparently he is not rated in Germany as a coach. The real coaching during his team was done by a Herr Joachim Low. Whatever happened to him.........
		
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It was widely said that Klinnsman was the one who changed the coaching set up, and the whole organisational aspects of the German national team. Low may well have taken the plaudits after but the foundations were laid by Klinnsman. He also did the same thing for the US team.


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## Beezerk (Sep 27, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Right now I think the best choice would be Hiddink with a younger guy alongside him 

Would be good to see someone like Murphy come away from the studio and work alongside someone like that as well as people like Southgate or even Howe
		
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Murphy? He talks utter bowlowks every time I hear him on the radio.


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## One Planer (Sep 27, 2016)

Beezerk said:



			Murphy? He talks utter bowlowks every time I hear him on the radio.
		
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Former Liverpool darling though :thup:

Id rather the FA looked outside the box, regardless of nationalit, but they won't.

Theyll plum for another "Yes-Man"


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

Midnight said:



			So who would you choose next then mate ? No fantasy one /has to be someone who you think would actually do the job. Sorry if you have already said but to many posts for me to read mate.
		
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The biggest issue is the FA have pretty much said the England manager will always be English due to their massive investment in St Georges park. On that basis there's a very small pool of managers to choose from that lacks real quality IMO.

I think it should be the best man for the job regardless of nationality.

If I was in charge I'd do all I could to entice Ancellotti. A proven winner.

If I was in charge and it had to be an  Englishman then I think I'd go with Hoddle, the best of a bad bunch.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Behave, 1 game, impossible to judge,
		
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That performance was no different from what Roy served up. 

Apart from Antonio and no Barkley, it was same old England. Just my opinion.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 27, 2016)

Louis van Gaal anyone? - now that would give some of us a bit of a laugh


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

One Planer said:



*Former Liverpool darling though* :thup:

Id rather the FA looked outside the box, regardless of nationalit, but they won't.

Theyll plum for another "Yes-Man"
		
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Of all the  ex Liverpool players he was far from a "Liverpool Darling" I tell thee.


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 27, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Of all the  ex Liverpool players he was far from a "Liverpool Darling" I tell thee.
		
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I agree, Murphy never got the respect he fully deserved. As a pundit, I actually think he's one of the best. Honest and frank.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			So prem managers need time to make the team their own,but you expected Sam to transform the team after a few days with the players?
		
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I watched that England game and it looked exactly the same as a Hodgson side, same tactics and same style of play, very pragmatic. 

If you watched it and seen something different then enlighten me.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I agree, Murphy never got the respect he fully deserved. As a pundit, I actually think he's one of the best. Honest and frank.
		
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Murphy was a very average footballer and every time he looked like being dropped he'd score the winner against United or Everton and that would keep him in the side for another 12 games. 

His level was Fulham.


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## USER1999 (Sep 27, 2016)

They can have Wenger. I'd even stump up his bus fare.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 27, 2016)

The problem lies in the FA's desire ideally for an Englishman for the England side having gone down the Erikson and Capello route. I think there has to be someone out there, not English in my opinion, who could take the team forward and maybe even finally harness their talent into a harmonious glory. I doubt it mind. Southgate does reasonably well and seems the ideal FA fit and the cycle continues again


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 27, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			That performance was no different from what Roy served up. 

Apart from Antonio and no Barkley, it was same old England. Just my opinion.
		
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Granted it was sh1te, but who knows if he woukd of turned out to be our greatest or worst ever manager, he picked that squad 4 days into the season and any manager and I mean any manager would of picked 90% of the same players until he got his feet under the table, a friendly may of been different but that was a qualifier.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



*Granted it was sh1te,* but who knows if he woukd of turned out to be our greatest or worst ever manager, he picked that squad 4 days into the season and any manager and I mean any manager would of picked 90% of the same players until he got his feet under the table, a friendly may of been different but that was a qualifier.
		
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So you agree with me yet still feel the need to defend him? 

We're talking about a manager who knows these players very well and his teams have played against them, it's hardly stepping into the unknown. 

There was nothing in that performance where you could see very slight improvement in set up or performance. It was a very  Hodgson like performance.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 27, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			So you agree with me yet still feel the need to defend him? 

We're talking about a manager who knows these players very well and his teams have played against them, it's hardly stepping into the unknown. 

There was nothing in that performance where you could see very slight improvement in set up or performance. It was a very  Hodgson like performance.
		
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Not defending him, didn't want him, so regardless of who was in charge I wouldn't of judged them after 1 game, totally pointless, in my opinion :thup:


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## ger147 (Sep 27, 2016)

Could Sam not have used the Father Ted defence?


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## Fyldewhite (Sep 27, 2016)

Gutted. Disappointed. Disillusioned. Still convinced that from a footballing view he would have shaken it all up and been a 100% improvement on Roy, McLaren and Capello. Can't believe he's fallen for the oldest trick in the book. Idiot really doesn't cover it.

The future? Well without my Bolton tinted spectacles on I'm really stumped. Howe? Untried, inexperienced. Southgate? Just wouldn't handle the media spotlight. Foreign? Don't think that will sit well with the current mood of the country. Good luck FA. Maybe Steve Bruce?
Still, on the bright side.....bring on World Cup 2018 :whoo:we'll have put all this behind us by then and will be major contenders. For the first fortnight anyway .


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Not defending him, didn't want him, so regardless of who was in charge I wouldn't of judged them after 1 game, totally pointless, in my opinion :thup:
		
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That's all he got. I can't judge him on nothing else 

Btw who did you want?


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## garyinderry (Sep 27, 2016)

Big sam the yes man, couldn't say no to the money.


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## Fyldewhite (Sep 27, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			So you agree with me yet still feel the need to defend him? 

We're talking about a manager who knows these players very well and his teams have played against them, it's hardly stepping into the unknown. 

There was nothing in that performance where you could see very slight improvement in set up or performance. It was a very  Hodgson like performance.
		
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It was always going to be. Come in make 8 changes and lose and he would be castigated. It's a difficult job you know. I for one think Rooney would have been sidelined within a few games (Jose has played it the same way) and pace, youth would have been right in there....providing they did their jobs. All a moot point now but as others have said, one game is hardly a basis for criticism on the football level.


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## sawtooth (Sep 27, 2016)

It should be Hoddle and he is older and wiser now.

Ex player (and a bloody good one at that) players will respect that and will try their best to impress him I reckon.

No coincidence last bunch were not top players - Allardyce, Hodgson, Capello, McClaren,

Think it will make a difference. Has to be English as well , no more foreign managers for the national team nonsense.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

Fyldewhite said:



			It was always going to be. Come in make 8 changes and lose and he would be castigated. It's a difficult job you know. I for one think Rooney would have been sidelined within a few games (Jose has played it the same way) and pace, youth would have been right in there....providing they did their jobs. All a moot point now but as others have said, one game is hardly a basis for criticism on the football level.
		
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Come on they were only playing Slovakia.  

I watched the game and I think my opinion is fair and not unfair criticism.

Where were all these fresh ideas that he was supposed to be bringing with him?

Because in that game it looked no different apart from Kane not taking corners.....


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			It should be Hoddle and he is older and wiser now.

Ex player (and a bloody good one at that) players will respect that and will try their best to impress him I reckon.

No coincidence last bunch were not top players - Allardyce, Hodgson, Capello, McClaren,

Think it will make a difference. Has to be English as well , no more foreign managers for the national team nonsense.
		
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You can't beat a bit of xenophobia


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## sawtooth (Sep 27, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			You can't beat a bit of xenophobia 

Click to expand...



List of last Germany managers. All German, some pretty good footballers in that list as well. 

Joachim Low
JÃ¼rgen Klinsmann
Rudi VÃ¶ller
Erich Ribbeck
Berti Vogts
Franz Beckenbauer

Works for the Germans, why should we do it differently?


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Think it will make a difference. Has to be English as well , no more foreign managers for the national team nonsense.
		
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Why is it nonsense?


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:





List of last Germany managers. All German, some pretty good footballers in that list as well. 

Joachim Low
JÃ¼rgen Klinsmann
Rudi VÃ¶ller
Erich Ribbeck
Berti Vogts
Franz Beckenbauer

Works for the Germans, why should we do it differently?
		
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Maybe we should get a German then?


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## sawtooth (Sep 27, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Why is it nonsense?
		
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Its an embarrassment that we have to say to the world that we don't have one single coach capable of managing the national team.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Its an embarrassment that we have to say to the world that we don't have one single coach capable of managing the national team.
		
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It may be embarassing, but after 50 years of under-achievement, mainly with Englishmen at the helm, you think it's nonsense to appoint a foreigner.

Loaded question alert - do you think Arsene Wenger could do a good job as England manager?

Damned if you, damned if you dont. :whoo:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 27, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			That's all he got. I can't judge him on nothing else 

Btw who did you want?
		
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Why judge him? Just state you had no faith in him and we'll never know.

I'd like to see us go for a top succesful young(ish) manager, Simeone or Pep, even Jose, if the FA are serious about the future they need to pay top dollar and none of this young English coach for the future alongside the new guy rubbish.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Its an embarrassment that we have to say to the world that we don't have one single coach capable of managing the national team.
		
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We don't have the players either so not much point in worrying about the manager.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I'd like to see us go for a top succesful young(ish) manager, Simeone or Pep, even Jose, if the FA are serious about the future they need to pay top dollar and none of this young English coach for the future alongside the new guy rubbish.
		
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The FA have pretty much nailed their colours to the mast with ST George's park investment and their idea of an Englishman as manager.

None of those 3 are ready for international management.l


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## Cherry13 (Sep 27, 2016)

A Few people have mentioned klinsmann, thing I find bizarre is some of those same people say to go foreign because it's the experience that counts. But when klinsmann got the job he had none what so ever. 

He came in with a very definitive idea of a style (attacking), and set about changing some of the principles and 'distractions' around the team. 

I don't see why England can't take the same risk with someone inexperienced, whether that be a G. Neville a Shearer or even someone like Les Ferdinand. Just someone who wants to adopt a style, and make his own mark on the team. 

In light of the last few days I also find the suggestion of Hoddle baffling, this is a man who made wholly unacceptable comments and should thank himself lucky he has ever been able to rebuild a media career never mind get the biggest job in English football.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Maybe we should get a German then?
		
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It went well for the Jock's didn't it


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:





List of last Germany managers. All German, some pretty good footballers in that list as well. 

Joachim Low
JÃ¼rgen Klinsmann
Rudi VÃ¶ller
Erich Ribbeck
Berti Vogts
Franz Beckenbauer

Works for the Germans, why should we do it differently?
		
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Same could be said  for club management, imagine the trophies Arsenal would've had with an English manager.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 27, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			The FA have pretty much nailed their colours to the mast with ST George's park investment and their idea of an Englishman as manager.

None of those 3 are ready for international management.l
		
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Who says their not ready for international Football? I'd rather risk one of them than any of the Englishmen who get mentioned.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

Cherry13 said:



			A Few people have mentioned klinsmann, thing I find bizarre is some of those same people say to go foreign because it's the experience that counts. But when klinsmann got the job he had none what so ever. 

He came in with a very definitive idea of a style (attacking), and set about changing some of the principles and 'distractions' around the team. 

I don't see why England can't take the same risk with someone inexperienced, whether that be a G. Neville a Shearer or even someone like Les Ferdinand. Just someone who wants to adopt a style, and make his own mark on the team. 

In light of the last few days I also find the suggestion of Hoddle baffling, this is a man who made wholly unacceptable comments and should thank himself lucky he has ever been able to rebuild a media career never mind get the biggest job in English football.
		
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This is the problem when people divulge their personal religious beliefs,  some will always be offended.

Hoddle's comments were wholly unacceptable but he's still should be allowed to make a living. He certainly talks a good game and he's probably England's best coach right now.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 27, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			It went well for the Jock's didn't it

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He didnt have the right..........ingredients.

Just cos it didnt work well with one, doesnt mean it wont work again.

What about big Phil Scolari? I mean apart from world cups, copa des Libertadores......just what has he won? TM-Jocko


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Who says their not ready for international Football? I'd rather risk one of them than any of the Englishmen who get mentioned.
		
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Sorry, I doubt they'd be ready to give up CL and day to day management. 

I agree with the quality of the English candidate's is poor.


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## super hans (Sep 27, 2016)

Fyldewhite said:



			Gutted. Disappointed. Disillusioned. Still convinced that from a footballing view he would have shaken it all up and been a 100% improvement on Roy, McLaren and Capello. Can't believe he's fallen for the oldest trick in the book. Idiot really doesn't cover it.

The future? Well without my Bolton tinted spectacles on I'm really stumped. Howe? Untried, inexperienced. Southgate? Just wouldn't handle the media spotlight. *Foreign? Don't think that will sit well with the current mood of the country. *Good luck FA. Maybe Steve Bruce?
Still, on the bright side.....bring on World Cup 2018 :whoo:we'll have put all this behind us by then and will be major contenders. For the first fortnight anyway .
		
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Not all parts of our 'country' are racist


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## Stuart_C (Sep 27, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			He didnt have the right..........ingredients.

Just cos it didnt work well with one, doesnt mean it wont work again.

What about big Phil Scolari? I mean apart from world cups, copa des Libertadores......just what has he won? TM-Jocko

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What about him?

I think Davie Moyes would do a great job


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 27, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Sorry, I doubt they'd be ready to give up CL and day to day management. 

I agree with the quality of the English candidate's is poor.
		
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They might if the money's right &#128515;


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## super hans (Sep 27, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			This is the problem when people divulge their personal religious beliefs,  some will always be offended.

Hoddle's comments were wholly unacceptable but he's still should be allowed to make a living. He certainly talks a good game and he's probably England's best coach right now.
		
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Exactly - people should never be allowed to criticise/mock people because of their disability/sexuality/nationality/skin colour, because that is something they cannot control - however, religion/politics etc is fair game IMO


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## Fyldewhite (Sep 27, 2016)

super hans said:



			Not all parts of our 'country' are racist
		
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:thup:


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			The biggest issue is the FA have pretty much said the England manager will always be English due to their massive investment in St Georges park. On that basis there's a very small pool of managers to choose from that lacks real quality IMO.

I think it should be the best man for the job regardless of nationality.

If I was in charge I'd do all I could to entice Ancellotti. A proven winner.

If I was in charge and it had to be an  Englishman then I think I'd go with Hoddle, the best of a bad bunch.
		
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So you'd try & get the current Bayern Munich manager. 
Why not go for Pep?


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## PhilTheFragger (Sep 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Hoddle's comments were wholly unacceptable but he's still should be allowed to make a living. He certainly talks a good game and he's probably England's best coach right now.
		
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But apart from  6 months at QPR in 2015 he hasn't managed a team for 10 years , wolves 2006 was his last job , he has been running his "academy" in Spain .

Hope Steve Bruce isn't in the running either, another very average manager. As is Southgate

I wouldn't be upset if Klinsmann or Gus H had a go


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## Fish (Sep 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			This is the problem when people divulge their personal religious beliefs,  some will always be offended.

Hoddle's comments were wholly unacceptable but he's still should be allowed to make a living. *He certainly talks a good game and he's probably England's best coach right now*.
		
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and it hurts to say but, he (Hoddle) started all the positive changes at Chelsea but then England nicked him, he got us playing good passing football and through that the silverware came and we/he then attracted players like Ruud who then attracted Vialli and Zola and the rest is history, as they say.


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## freddielong (Sep 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			This is the problem when people divulge their personal religious beliefs,  some will always be offended.

Hoddle's comments were wholly unacceptable but he's still should be allowed to make a living. He certainly talks a good game and he's probably England's best coach right now.
		
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Is Hoddle not making a living now, what about Ron Atkinson should he have been allowed to continue or Richard Keys and Andy Gray they were just unacceptable comments but you cannot stop them making a living right.

As far as we know Big Sam just made comments were the FA right to terminate his contract after all Sam has to make a living.

Hoddle shouldn't even be allowed on Television nether mind any were near the England managers chair


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## freddielong (Sep 28, 2016)

Fish said:



			and it hurts to say but, he (Hoddle) started all the positive changes at Chelsea but then England nicked him, he got us playing good passing football and through that the silverware came and we/he then attracted players like Ruud who then attracted Vialli and Zola and the rest is history, as they say.
		
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The only reason Chelsea are were they are at the moment is Romans money and the only reason he bought Chelsea is because they were for sale as the club was in a mess it had nothing to do with Hoddle.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 28, 2016)

Whoever the FA choose we're in a mess with a lack of cohesion and direction. Sadly I don't see the bigger egos in the Englamd team buying into the Southgate way which doesn't bode well for the WC clashes. It needs a strong leader which Allardyce was and I'm struggling to find similar contenders that would be realistic England manager candidates


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## SteveJay (Sep 28, 2016)

super hans said:



			Not all parts of our 'country' are racist
		
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No, but quite a lot are PATRIOTIC, thankfully.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 28, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Is Hoddle not making a living now, what about Ron Atkinson should he have been allowed to continue or Richard Keys and Andy Gray they were just unacceptable comments but you cannot stop them making a living right.



			Hoddle is making a living in the media, only because people like you won't have him in English football. I didn't agree with his comments but I think he's served his time. Atkinson was punished and rightly so and has retired, keys and Gray lost their jobs too and are smashing it out in Qatar
		
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As far as we know Big Sam just made comments were the FA right to terminate his contract after all Sam has to make a living.




			Talking to potential investors about flouting the companys law's who pays you Â£3m pa, you deserve to be sacked.
		
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Hoddle shouldn't even be allowed on Television nether mind any were near the England managers chair




			In your opinion.
		
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I'm certain Sam will be back in football before Xmas , not much of a punishment losing a job in football then getting another one in the most profile league.


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## sawtooth (Sep 28, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			It may be embarassing, but after 50 years of under-achievement, mainly with Englishmen at the helm, you think it's nonsense to appoint a foreigner.

Loaded question alert - do you think Arsene Wenger could do a good job as England manager?

Damned if you, damned if you dont. :whoo:
		
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Wenger would.do the best he could with what we have. Would be playing some nice stuff too.

Put it this way, if he was made head of the FA 20 years ago instead of joining Arsenal it would.be different now.

Look at what he has done with Arsenal, transformed it from top to bottom. The same needs doing at the FA. 

Need someone like him with a vision and autonomy to shake it up and do things differently. Reforming how kids get into football, how they train and think at a very early age, how to provide better facilities at grass roots, better diet, education is very important too.

He would probably insist on a greater percentage of English footballers playing in the premier league. 

The FA have been rubbish really. All they have done is build a new stadium and training facility . And even balls'd that up by paying too much.


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## Rlburnside (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Wenger would.do the best he could with what we have. Would be playing some nice stuff too.

Put it this way, if he was made head of the FA 20 years ago instead of joining Arsenal it would.be different now.

Look at what he has done with Arsenal, transformed it from top to bottom. The same needs doing at the FA. 

Need someone like him with a vision and autonomy to shake it up and do things differently. Reforming how kids get into football, how they train and think at a very early age, how to provide better facilities at grass roots, better diet, education is very important too.

He would probably insist on a greater percentage of English footballers playing in the premier league. 

The FA have been rubbish really. All they have done is build a new stadium and training facility . And even balls'd that up by paying too much.
		
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Also it was built in the wrong place, never should have been Wembley, Midlands should have been the farthest south it should have been built.


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## Hobbit (Sep 28, 2016)

What's with the love-fest for Hoddle? Apart from a bit of punditry he's got no recent experience of managing a team. A good pundit doesn't make a good manager, e.g. Neville and Shearer.

Some of the arguments earlier in the thread revolved around exposure to European football. That's another no for Hoddle.

As to his comments about the disabled. It shows an attitude of mind and a lack of judgement. No, no, and thrice no.


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## Junior (Sep 28, 2016)

Realise its only another media outlet saying this but apparently there is a bit more devil in the detail.  He was at his agents office to discuss a foreigner (be a key note type speaker) and was offered $400k.  he said he'd take it if the FA approved, and then went on to say football agents are bent, Roy Hodgson is a **** and Gary Neville is a **** manager.   

I guess it will all come out in the wash, but if this is the case for the defence, well, to me it just looks like a reasonable one and the media have entrapped him good and proper.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 28, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			What's with the love-fest for Hoddle? Apart from a bit of punditry he's got no recent experience of managing a team. A good pundit doesn't make a good manager, e.g. Neville and Shearer.

Some of the arguments earlier in the thread revolved around exposure to European football. That's another no for Hoddle.

As to his comments about the disabled. It shows an attitude of mind and a lack of judgement. No, no, and thrice no.
		
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:thup:


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## sawtooth (Sep 28, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			What's with the love-fest for Hoddle? Apart from a bit of punditry he's got no recent experience of managing a team. A good pundit doesn't make a good manager, e.g. Neville and Shearer.

Some of the arguments earlier in the thread revolved around exposure to European football. That's another no for Hoddle.

As to his comments about the disabled. It shows an attitude of mind and a lack of judgement. No, no, and thrice no.
		
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We played some good stuff under him before and didn't really have the chance to finish what he had started. His fault I know but that was nearly 20 years ago and you get less than that for murder so he deserves another chance.

Players will certainly respect him , even try hard to impress him, I think that is what you get when you are managed by a ex-player who was as good as he was.

For me it has to be an Englishman and he is currently the stand out candidate.


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## Kellfire (Sep 28, 2016)

If the stand out candidate is a fella who doesn't have any recent managerial experience then I predict the same old for England if he's appointed.


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## Hobbit (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			We played some good stuff under him before and didn't really have the chance to finish what he had started. His fault I know but that was nearly 20 years ago and you get less than that for murder so he deserves another chance.

Players will certainly respect him , even try hard to impress him, I think that is what you get when you are managed by a ex-player who was as good as he was.

For me it has to be an Englishman and he is currently the stand out candidate.
		
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And he had far better players to pick from. But a "stand out candidate." Why? He's another yesterday man that talks a good job. If he was good enough he'd have had the opportunity to impress after leaving the England job. He managed Southampton, Spurs and Wolves after the England job. Very decent clubs at that time, and did diddly squat.

Good footballer; absolutely yes, like so many other managerial failures.
Respected by the then England squad; no, he was a joke amongst the players.

He wouldn't come in with a clean slate, and the media would have a field day over his history. Lets be honest, the media are like a rabid pack of hyenas. They would hound him, and to expect otherwise is naÃ¯ve.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 28, 2016)

I haven't gone through all of the recent posts but I'm another one baffled by the calls for Hoddle. If he is so good why has no PL club brought him on board? He hasn't been involved at a club for years. Why?

Let's say the FA appoint him. He will be asked constantly the same question that tripped him up all those years ago. Too embarrassing for the FA. They appointed Sam with all of his skeletons and faults, they surely wont make the same mistake again with Hoddle.

If Southgate does well I suspect he will get the job. If not I'm another one for Hiddink. No easy answer at the moment.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm certain Sam will be back in football before Xmas , not much of a punishment losing a job in football then getting another one in the most profile league.
		
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back at sunderland?


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## freddielong (Sep 28, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I haven't gone through all of the recent posts but I'm another one baffled by the calls for Hoddle. If he is so good why has no PL club brought him on board? He hasn't been involved at a club for years. Why?

Let's say the FA appoint him. He will be asked constantly the same question that tripped him up all those years ago. Too embarrassing for the FA. They appointed Sam with all of his skeletons and faults, they surely wont make the same mistake again with Hoddle.

If Southgate does well I suspect he will get the job. If not I'm another one for Hiddink. No easy answer at the moment.
		
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100 % agreed


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 28, 2016)

pbrown7582 said:



			back at sunderland?
		
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They would have him. You may also find Stoke in need of a manger shortly. West Ham as well but I can't see him being re-appointed there. He will not be out of the game for long, he is a fire fighter and chairmen will be aware he is available.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			We played some good stuff under him before and didn't really have the chance to finish what he had started. His fault I know but that was nearly 20 years ago and you get less than that for murder so he deserves another chance.

Players will certainly respect him , even try hard to impress him, I think that is what you get when you are managed by a ex-player who was as good as he was.

For me it has to be an Englishman and he is currently the stand out candidate.
		
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Do you remember a different Hoddle to me ?

They battled through qualification for WC1998 - he then ignored prob the most in form young player in Europe at the time , blew it against Romania so they then had to face Argentina and then obviously got knocked out , then started the qualifying for the Euros poorly by losing to Sweden and drawing with Bulgaria and just about getting a second place to go to a playoff. 

His managerial career isn't exactly littered with glowing highlights beyond getting Swindon into the Prem . After England and his disgusting comments he then had three further chances at decent clubs and was poor in each club. 

Why would players respect him or try hard for him over previous managers ? Especially when he publically states his disgusting views like he did 

And only have to listen to his commentary to see that he is very far removed from modern football 

If he is the "stand out" candidate then the problem for England is bigger than people realise.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 28, 2016)

I have some sympathy for the guy - I have little sympathy for his desire to do something simple for a load of dosh he didn't really need.  But when you start poor as he did perhaps the fear of losing it all is in him deep -  and so he instinctively grabs any opportunity to create a more secure life. 

The reporters created a non-existent business opportunity - he was entrapped.  His greed caused him to big up what he could deliver in 'keynote speeches'.  So for instance we have no idea if he actually ever *would *have advised how to get round the 3rd party player ownership rules.  He was undone by his own hubris - bit like most England footballers.  But is hubris a crime?

If he was in breach of contract and so what he did was bad enough to lose his job - how was what he did not bad enough to lose his payoff?


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## pendodave (Sep 28, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If he is the "stand out" candidate then the problem for England is bigger than people realise.
		
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The problem with English football (as opposed to the EPL) is indeed massive. It has been rotting away for years, kept afloat with the wealth of croesus and imported foreign talent. Failure to seek out, train and promote the local population requires a bit too much effort. Sounds like the rest of the country really....


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 28, 2016)

From reports he has been given a token payoff. Pretty large but not the full whack of his contract which is what usually happens in football. Save going to court for both parties. It allowed the split to happen quickly which was important for the FA. He trousers money still and will be in a new job earning millions again within a month or two. No doubt his football mates will slap his back and sympathise with him still.


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## Hobbit (Sep 28, 2016)

pendodave said:



			The problem with English football (as opposed to the EPL) is indeed massive. It has been rotting away for years, kept afloat with the wealth of croesus and imported foreign talent. Failure to seek out, train and promote the local population requires a bit too much effort. Sounds like the rest of the country really....
		
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England cricket went through a similar problem with many counties having opening batsman or bowlers, or both, from other countries. There's a dearth of talent for any England manager to choose from...


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## sawtooth (Sep 28, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			And he had far better players to pick from. But a "stand out candidate." Why? He's another yesterday man that talks a good job. If he was good enough he'd have had the opportunity to impress after leaving the England job. He managed Southampton, Spurs and Wolves after the England job. Very decent clubs at that time, and did diddly squat.

Good footballer; absolutely yes, like so many other managerial failures.
Respected by the then England squad; no, he was a joke amongst the players.

*He wouldn't come in with a clean slate, and the media would have a field day over his history. Lets be honest, the media are like a rabid pack of hyenas. They would hound him, and to expect otherwise is naÃ¯ve*.
		
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Not true. That's old news and he paid the price and he's probably squeaky clean apart from that.

I personally would give him a contract until 2018 and prefer that to a foreign manager coming in.

Stand out candidate yes amongst the rest of the *English *managerson the bookies list.


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## Hobbit (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Not true. That's old news and he paid the price and he's probably squeaky clean apart from that.

I personally would give him a contract until 2018 and prefer that to a foreign manager coming in.

Stand out candidate yes amongst the rest of the *English *managerson the bookies list.
		
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"Not true," in your opinion. I'd sooner give it to Pardew, Howe or Bruce long before I'd consider Hoddle. But hey, why don't we pick and England manager from 30 years ago if we're going to talk about has-beens - maybe Hodgson...


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Not true. That's old news and he paid the price and he's probably squeaky clean apart from that.

I personally would give him a contract until 2018 and prefer that to a foreign manager coming in.

Stand out candidate yes amongst the rest of the *English *managerson the bookies list.
		
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You can't just ignore what was said - the press won't ignore especially when it was so disgusting - why exactly do you believe he is the "stand out" when you look at his record ? And the fact he hasn't managed at the highest level for over a decade now and it was 17 years ago that he was England manager ?


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## NWJocko (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Not true. *That's old news and he paid the price *and he's probably squeaky clean apart from that.

I personally would give him a contract until 2018 and prefer that to a foreign manager coming in.

Stand out candidate yes amongst the rest of the *English *managerson the bookies list.
		
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So if he still believes that disabled people are paying the price for a previous incarnation of themselves that's fine then!?   It would be the first question at any press conference.

If he had been winning everything in sight since he lost the job I could see why some people may be willing to overlook that but he's achieved absolutely diddly squat, no idea how he's now rated so highly.

If you could tear El Tel away from a karaoke machine in Malaga why not him if that's the way of thinking?

LP has it spot on, if Hoddle is the best option England are in deep trouble.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 28, 2016)

Just seen Sams interview outside his house. 

Whether he he was the right man or not, stupid, naive or not. He does at least look genuinely gutted.


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## sawtooth (Sep 28, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You can't just ignore what was said - the press won't ignore especially when it was so disgusting - why exactly do you believe he is the "stand out" when you look at his record ? And the fact he hasn't managed at the highest level for over a decade now and it was 17 years ago that he was England manager ?
		
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World Cup 1998, we would have won that if we got past Argentina and we should have. Beckham got sent off and the rest is history.

He is a lot older now and working in football for another 17+ years would only have made him better not worse. He has been developing his academy, working with television, etc. A part time job like England would suit him and hearing him speak last night he is obviously very passionate about doing it. 

He only had 2 1/2 years last time why not give him another chance?


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## Tongo (Sep 28, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I have some sympathy for the guy - I have little sympathy for his desire to do something simple for a load of dosh he didn't really need.  *But when you start poor as he did perhaps the fear of losing it all is in him deep -  and so he instinctively grabs any opportunity to create a more secure life. 
*
The reporters created a non-existent business opportunity - he was entrapped.  His greed caused him to big up what he could deliver in 'keynote speeches'.  So for instance we have no idea if he actually ever *would *have advised how to get round the 3rd party player ownership rules.  He was undone by his own hubris - bit like most England footballers.  But is hubris a crime?

If he was in breach of contract and so what he did was bad enough to lose his job - how was what he did not bad enough to lose his payoff?
		
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So a Â£3 million a year contract and the doubtless handsome contracts he's had at other clubs isn't enough? 

Anyone that is in and around the PL from a playing or managing point of view shouldn't be short of cash. 

He is employed by the FA and he suggested a way to circumvent the FA's rules. So he's paid the price. Maybe he should have had more respect for his employers. Maybe spending too long in the greed is good PL has drummed that out of players and managers.


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## NWJocko (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



*World Cup 1998, we would have won that if we got past Argentina and we should have. Beckham got sent off and the rest is history.*

He is a lot older now and working in football for another 17+ years would only have made him better not worse. He has been developing his academy, working with television, etc. A part time job like England would suit him and hearing him speak last night he is obviously very passionate about doing it. 

He only had 2 1/2 years last time why not give him another chance?
		
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Aye, beating Holland, then Brazil, then France would have been a doddle right enough 

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## sawtooth (Sep 28, 2016)

NWJocko said:



*So if he still believes that disabled people are paying the price for a previous incarnation *of themselves that's fine then!?   It would be the first question at any press conference.

If he had been winning everything in sight since he lost the job I could see why some people may be willing to overlook that but he's achieved absolutely diddly squat, no idea how he's now rated so highly.

If you could tear El Tel away from a karaoke machine in Malaga why not him if that's the way of thinking?

LP has it spot on, if Hoddle is the best option England are in deep trouble.
		
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Well I wouldn't expect him to answer that with a yes!!

Hoddle still keeps his eye in as you can see, older and wiser - cant be a bad thing.


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## Fyldewhite (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



*World Cup 1998, we would have won that if we got past Argentina and we should have.* Beckham got sent off and the rest is history.

He is a lot older now and working in football for another 17+ years would only have made him better not worse. He has been developing his academy, working with television, etc. A part time job like England would suit him and hearing him speak last night he is obviously very passionate about doing it. 

He only had 2 1/2 years last time why not give him another chance?
		
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Hmmmm, we would have had to play Holland and Brazil and France in that half of the draw if we came through the Argentina match..... as for Hoddle, at least it would get him off the punditry job at which he's somewhere between boring and irritating.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			World Cup 1998, we would have won that if we got past Argentina and we should have. Beckham got sent off and the rest is history.

He is a lot older now and working in football for another 17+ years would only have made him better not worse. He has been developing his academy, working with television, etc. A part time job like England would suit him and hearing him speak last night he is obviously very passionate about doing it. 

He only had 2 1/2 years last time why not give him another chance?
		
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Surely you're not serious ? 

England couldn't even beat Romania in that comp and you seriously believe they would have gone on to beat some of the best teams seen ? Cuckoland 

Working in television doesn't give someone the credentials to be a national manager , academies ?! Seriously ? And then you say "etc" ? What etc 

He has been doing nothing in top level football bar a spell helping Redknapp 

He also spoke very passionate about his views towards disabled people 

The FA were daft enough to ignore Sams past history - they aren't going to compound that error with employing someone who holds such a disgusting view. 

It's your opinion in regards Hoddle but sometimes it's fine to call an opinion a complete fantasy and this is one of those occasions 

You have said nothing that suggestions he is the stand out choice or should get the job


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## jp5 (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			World Cup 1998, we would have won that if we got past Argentina and we should have. Beckham got sent off and the rest is history.
		
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Really


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## sawtooth (Sep 28, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Surely you're not serious ? 

England couldn't even beat Romania in that comp and you seriously believe they would have gone on to beat some of the best teams seen ? Cuckoland 

Working in television doesn't give someone the credentials to be a national manager , academies ?! Seriously ? And then you say "etc" ? What etc 

He has been doing nothing in top level football bar a spell helping Redknapp 

He also spoke very passionate about his views towards disabled people 

The FA were daft enough to ignore Sams past history - they aren't going to compound that error with employing someone who holds such a disgusting view. 

It's your opinion in regards Hoddle but sometimes it's fine to call an opinion a complete fantasy and this is one of those occasions 

You have said nothing that suggestions he is the stand out choice or should get the job
		
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It's my opinion yes and I stick to choosing Hoddle over Southgate, Bruce and Pardew.

If you had to choose an Englishman who would it be?


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## sawtooth (Sep 28, 2016)

jp5 said:



			Really 

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Why not? Argies were highly fancied and we were the better side, we should have got past them. I would have fancied Englands chances after that definitely.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 28, 2016)

Tongo said:



			So a Â£3 million a year contract and the doubtless handsome contracts he's had at other clubs isn't enough? 

Anyone that is in and around the PL from a playing or managing point of view shouldn't be short of cash. 

He is employed by the FA and he suggested a way to circumvent the FA's rules. So he's paid the price. Maybe he should have had more respect for his employers. Maybe spending too long in the greed is good PL has drummed that out of players and managers.
		
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My point is that *despite* his wealth - and even before, and now without, the England job he is very wealthy - if you start with nothing there could be a fear that things could turn full circle and you could lose the lot or most of it.  So whilst the going is good your basic instinct is to take every opportunity to acquire and so to protect yourself against that possibility.

I am just trying to understand why such as he might do what appears to be a very daft thing -  I don't really believe it is simple base avarice.


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## Hobbit (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Why not? Argies were highly fancied and we were the better side, we should have got past them. I would have fancied Englands chances after that definitely.
		
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But we didn't get past them, which suggests we weren't good enough. Its a results based business, and that includes doing ALL the right things, which that team didn't do.

As for its 18 years since his indiscretion. I'd totally forgot about it till the media started bringing it up in the last 24 hours. Its not forgotten, obviously, and the media would crucify him and the FA. And then there's the media at every away game...

Can you imagine the reception he'd get, the headlines in those countries. England would be lambasted for employing someone with those beliefs - aka Trump.


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## PieMan (Sep 28, 2016)

I'm beginning to think that England don't actually need a full-time manager. So give it to either Pep or Jose and just have a network of coaches - Neville, Shearer, Southgate, Hoddle - working under them and advising on who to pick.


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## JT77 (Sep 28, 2016)

I have to say, I am not sorry to see the back of Sam, I dont like his style of play, his first outing, although we won, very luckily, was awful to watch, I dont think he brought anything new to the table, and had he stayed in charge, I would have been expecting another terrible performance at the world cup, should we qualify.  It wasnt a great appointment at the time in my opinion.  
Having seen the statement of 'entrapment won' in his interview is beggers belief for me also, if he hadnt been offering to defraud the system, then it wouldnt have won!! Greedy silly man!! I hope he doesnt get another job in football.


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## GB72 (Sep 28, 2016)

The cynic in me wonders whether this was all totally down to the Telegraph article. They appoint Big Sam, the first performance is poor, the players picked are largely the same, nothing was changing and the press were turning on the team after only one match which is pretty much unheard of. Suddenly the FA have a fit of conscience and become decisive over an incident which you could see them taking weeks to investigate and they sack a manager a week before the next world cup qualifier. Part of me thinks they realised that they had picked the wrong man and lady luck dealt them a hand too good not to play.


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## sawtooth (Sep 28, 2016)

If you were responsible for selecting the next England man who would it be? name 2 , top Englishman and top foreign manager. 

Put club prejudice aside, just choose the best man for the job regardless.

Hoddle and Wenger


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## fundy (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			If you were responsible for selecting the next England man who would it be? name 2 , top Englishman and top foreign manager. 

*Put club prejudice aside*, just choose the best man for the job regardless.

Hoddle and *Wenger*

Click to expand...

Comsistent ill give you that lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			If you were responsible for selecting the next England man who would it be? name 2 , top Englishman and top foreign manager. 

*Put club prejudice aside, *just choose the best man for the job regardless.

Hoddle and *Wenger*

Click to expand...

:rofl:

Going on realistic choices 

English - Pardew I think would be the best bet

Foreign - Hiddink or Klinnsman


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## sawtooth (Sep 28, 2016)

fundy said:



			Comsistent ill give you that lol
		
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Who me or Wenger? &#128540;

You can't deny his quality.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 28, 2016)

Shame on Sam for what he has done pure greed and as I understand it there are more revelations to come regarding other managers and it wouldn't surprise me to see some of the managers mentioned for the job involved.

Imo there is not one English manager good enough for the position but I suspect an English one will be appointed,if so I hope he starts getting rid of the dead wood and give some new blood a chance and just make England more entertaining to watch.

Sam would have been more of the same as others have said,however I do believe his passion for managing England would have rubbed off on some players and some better performances would have come but then as the Euro's and World cup came once again we would have fallen short.


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## bluewolf (Sep 28, 2016)

As there's such a dearth of top quality candidates I'd probably go with Bruce in the short term, with Neville and Shearer on the staff. If the players won't play for some of the most decorated players of the modern English era, then it won't much matter who you appoint as the players aren't mentally strong enough to compete at the highest level.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			If you were responsible for selecting the next England man who would it be? name 2 , top Englishman and top foreign manager. 

Put club prejudice aside, just choose the best man for the job regardless.

Hoddle and Wenger
		
Click to expand...

How on earth can you possibly expext us to take club loyalty out of it when you choose wenger.

I'd go pardew. I want an Englishmen in charge so I won't bother listed who I'd prefer, but Klopp, Pep, Jose, Simione, Koeman, Enrique are just a few that any club would take over Arsene in the future imo


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## Spear-Chucker (Sep 28, 2016)

A quick fix will be found to solve the crisis and will be feted as 'an excellent long term solution, designed to instill good footballing values in this latest talented generation' (insert corporate speak as required) but the inherent problems won't change one bit. Crap administration at the top level, decades old culture from the footballing dark ages, lack of leadership, club vs country mismatch and by far the worst - no appetite for change just keeping sponsors happy. The whole thing stinks and will continue to do so for a generation at the current rate.

I like footie as a game and hate to see what's happened to it. It's a damned shame. 

What would I do? 

1. Clear out the current administrators and replace with competent folks who are willing to learn from successful authorities (e.g. Germany, France - neither are perfect, but...)

2. Find a transparent and achievable way to service the insane costs of Wembley

With these in place, it's _then _worth pursuing an experienced manager with high quality professional values who knows our league (Wenger?) to develop a long term plan involving succession to a younger alternative(s) as a priority. With good leadership, the players will follow and all the other minor problems (coaching, under 21 transition) can be tackled. Allow 5 years to affect any decent change.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			If you were responsible for selecting the next England man who would it be? name 2 , top Englishman and top foreign manager. 

Put club prejudice aside, just choose the best man for the job regardless.

Hoddle and Wenger
		
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Brilliant, Post of the year :rofl:


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 28, 2016)

bluewolf said:



			As there's such a dearth of top quality candidates I'd probably go with Bruce in the short term, with Neville and Shearer on the staff. If the players won't play for some of the most decorated players of the modern English era, then it won't much matter who you appoint as the players aren't mentally strong enough to compete at the highest level.
		
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:thup:


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## sawtooth (Sep 28, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			How on earth can you possibly expext us to take club loyalty out of it when you choose wenger.

I'd go pardew. I want an Englishmen in charge so I won't bother listed who I'd prefer, but Klopp, Pep, Jose, Simione, Koeman, Enrique are just a few that any club would take over Arsene in the future imo
		
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We are not talking about any club though we are talking England. So you would take any of those over someone who has worked in the premier league for years?


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## Papas1982 (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			We are not talking about any club though we are talking England. So you would take any of those over someone who has worked in the premier league for years?
		
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Yes. If I had to go for a foreign manager I would go for a winner. Someone who upsets the odds occasionally and out performs his opponents. We her in the last decade hasn't done anything unexpected. You've had the fourth best squad and constantly finished 4th. 

He hardly plays and English players and his fabled excellence with youth has dwindled too. I totally get why arsenal fans love him. But, I wouldn't want him anywhere near England. If I was on the spot and had to use your criteria then it would be Jose. He knows England well enough and wins more


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## Hickory_Hacker (Sep 28, 2016)

Played one won one ... It's difficult to feel sorry for the greedy 2 faced git but I've got to hand it to the English press guys, when you want a story then ching ching how easy was that :rofl: 

Who's in the running for the job now?


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## User62651 (Sep 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			You obviously don't understand how investigative journalism works do you? 

Allardyce only has himself to blame, he had the dream job earning Â£3m per year and through greed has lost the lot. 

I suspect him and his agent will be parting company.
		
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Undertstand just fine ta, this isn't  investigative journalism, just a naff sting or entrapment set up by  these journos with nothing better to do than get Allardyce in trouble.  Hardly investigative when they're setting it up themselves! Allardyce  won't be subject to any kind of criminal proceedings it's only  newsworthy for some tittle tattle, expect most managers and their agents  are 'at it' like this.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 28, 2016)

Looks like nigel Pearson from derby could be available


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## Hacker Khan (Sep 28, 2016)

maxfli65 said:



Undertstand just fine ta, this isn't  investigative journalism, just a naff sting or entrapment set up by  these journos with nothing better to do than get Allardyce in trouble.  Hardly investigative when they're setting it up themselves! Allardyce  won't be subject to any kind of criminal proceedings it's only  newsworthy for some tittle tattle, expect most managers and their agents  are 'at it' like this.

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They were following up to get hard evidence on information they had already received. It was not a random fishing operation. All they were doing was holding him to account, which you would have hoped the FA would do but obviously not.


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 28, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			They were following up to get hard evidence on information they had already received. It was not a random fishing operation. All they were doing was holding him to account, which you would have hoped the FA would do but obviously not.
		
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Exactly they were given names and followed through for an accurate story this was allegedly not a one off.


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## Hobbit (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			We are not talking about any club though we are talking England. So you would take any of those over someone who has worked in the premier league for years?
		
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Sean, are you trolling or do you actually, genuinely, believe that Wenger's the man?

Pretty much everyone else appears to be open minded to several candidates, including foreign managers. Can you not see you're in a majority of one. Surely, if so many people are saying no but are open to others you've got to ask yourself why is it only me saying this?


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## sawtooth (Sep 28, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Sean, are you trolling or do you actually, genuinely, believe that Wenger's the man?

Pretty much everyone else appears to be open minded to several candidates, including foreign managers. Can you not see you're in a majority of one. Surely, if so many people are saying no but are open to others you've got to ask yourself why is it only me saying this?
		
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Not trolling by having Wenger for my foreign pick mate. Of course there are other great foreign candidates but still prefer to see an Englishman in charge anyhow.


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## Golfmmad (Sep 28, 2016)

The England Manager should always be English! If we did win the World Cup or the Euro's with a non Englishman at the helm there would always be the comments of, "You could only win with a Foreign Manager". No, he has to be English.

I agree with Sawtooth's view with Hoddle. But first of all, his comments(Hoddle's) about the Disabled were very wrong, however, he's older and wiser now and deserves a second chance - everybody does.

The England manager needs to instil discipline and respect amongst the players and show strong leadership. Hoddle certainly did that when dealing with Paul Gascoine at the '98 World Cup. It's been said that England footballers do not show the desire and hunger playing for their Country. Hoddle would ensure that every player give their all, or they would be out, just as Gascoine was.

Cast your mind back, Hoddle with England was very clever and always looking for an edge over the opposition. Everybody was clamouring for Michael Owen to play - well, he didn't start until the Argentinian game - what a relevation, that was the edge he wanted, the Argies knew little about him. It was only Batistuta that craftily got Beckham sent off that stopped us from winning that game.

He has no experience in the "Modern game", what a load of tosh! It's not rocket science - you don't suddenly lose football knowledge by being out of management for 16 plus years. He's kept in touch with all aspects of the game, that's all he knows and cares about.

I remember months and months before the '98 World Cup, he had people checking facilities and everything to do with necessary preparations needed, accommodation, training, activities etc etc. He would play mind games with opposing Managers by not announcing or even changing his teams before games - to get that edge.

Give him another go I say!

:thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 28, 2016)

Golfmmad said:



			The England Manager should always be English! If we did win the World Cup or the Euro's with a non Englishman at the helm there would always be the comments of, "You could only win with a Foreign Manager". No, he has to be English.

I agree with Sawtooth's view with Hoddle. But first of all, his comments(Hoddle's) about the Disabled were very wrong, however, he's older and wiser now and deserves a second chance - everybody does.

The England manager needs to instil discipline and respect amongst the players and show strong leadership. Hoddle certainly did that when dealing with Paul Gascoine at the '98 World Cup. It's been said that England footballers do not show the desire and hunger playing for their Country. Hoddle would ensure that every player give their all, or they would be out, just as Gascoine was.

Cast your mind back, Hoddle with England was very clever and always looking for an edge over the opposition. Everybody was clamouring for Michael Owen to play - well, he didn't start until the Argentinian game - what a relevation, that was the edge he wanted, the Argies knew little about him. It was only Batistuta that craftily got Beckham sent off that stopped us from winning that game.

He has no experience in the "Modern game", what a load of tosh! It's not rocket science - you don't suddenly lose football knowledge by being out of management for 16 plus years. He's kept in touch with all aspects of the game, that's all he knows and cares about.

I remember months and months before the '98 World Cup, he had people checking facilities and everything to do with necessary preparations needed, accommodation, training, activities etc etc. He would play mind games with opposing Managers by not announcing or even changing his teams before games - to get that edge.

Give him another go I say!

:thup:
		
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Your view of the WC 98 seems to be a different 

He was that clever during the WC he kept Owen out of the line up they managed to lose against Romania which was a big reason they had to play against Argentina in the first place and because Owen come on and gave a bit of a lifeline against Romania pressure forced him to start him in the next match against  Colombia 

And it was Simeone who was involved in the Beckham sending off and it doesn't matter about all the "ifs" - can only deal in what actually happened 

What about the poor Euro campaign after that ? 

And then what about his three subsequent managerial jobs after that where he flopped ?


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## chrisd (Sep 28, 2016)

I'd rather Hoddle than any foreign manager


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## Golfmmad (Sep 28, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Your view of the WC 98 seems to be a different 

He was that clever during the WC he kept Owen out of the line up they managed to lose against Romania which was a big reason they had to play against Argentina in the first place and because Owen come on and gave a bit of a lifeline against Romania pressure forced him to start him in the next match against  Colombia 

And it was Simeone who was involved in the Beckham sending off and it doesn't matter about all the "ifs" - can only deal in what actually happened 

What about the poor Euro campaign after that ? 

And then what about his three subsequent managerial jobs after that where he flopped ?
		
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Sorry my bad, it was Simione.

I'm not really interested in his subsequent managerial posts, this is England management, a whole different ball game, and one in which he is very good at.


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 28, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



*They were following up to get hard evidence on information they had already received. It was not a random fishing operation. *All they were doing was holding him to account, which you would have hoped the FA would do but obviously not.
		
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Fully agree with this bit.  The 2 questions I'd like answered is how long have they known, and why now?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 28, 2016)

chrisd said:



			I'd rather Hoddle than any foreign manager
		
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I'd rather have Hodgson or McClaren back than Hoddle.
Serious though, why hasn't a Championship team or PL team come in for him if he has so much to offer?


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## Stuart_C (Sep 28, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I'd rather have Hodgson or McClaren back than Hoddle.
Serious though, why hasn't a Championship team or PL team come in for him if he has so much to offer?
		
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Probably his previous would be the main issue. 

He does talk a good game and is highly respected football wise amongst the media.

The next England manager should be the best available regardless of nationality.


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## Golfmmad (Sep 28, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			I'd rather have Hodgson or McClaren back than Hoddle.
Serious though, why hasn't a Championship team or PL team come in for him if he has so much to offer?
		
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Maybe they have, and he was not interested - happy where he is at the moment and holding out for a call sometime in the future.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 28, 2016)

Golfmmad said:



			Sorry my bad, it was Simione.

I'm not really interested in his subsequent managerial posts, this is England management, a whole different ball game, and one in which he is very good at.
		
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Very good at ? A manager is judged by his results 

Out in the first KO round of the WC and had to go via a playoff in the Euros after being beaten by Sweden isn't the results of someone very good - Hodgson had better qualifying record 

Hoddle has done nothing in over a decade for a reason 

Championing people like Hoddle and Sam and Hodgson is the reason why England will amount to nothing on the big stage 

Both the cricket teams and Rugby teams understood that you don't need an Englishman in charge to succeed you just need the right person regardless of nationality 

Having the first requirement being English is straight away dropping the level of managers available


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## sawtooth (Sep 28, 2016)

Golfmmad said:



			Sorry my bad, it was Simione.

I'm not really interested in his subsequent managerial posts, this is England management, a whole different ball game, and one in which he is very good at.
		
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I agree mate and that was then at 40 yrs old, he is at a better age now and won't be joining in and showing off in training like he used to!

What he said was in bad taste but many believe that he was harshly treated by the FA and I for one would like him to have another go.

Why not a short term contract to take us up to the 2018 WC? He is available and could start tomorrow.


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## Golfmmad (Sep 28, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Very good at ? A manager is judged by his results 

Out in the first KO round of the WC and had to go via a playoff in the Euros after being beaten by Sweden isn't the results of someone very good - Hodgson had better qualifying record 

Hoddle has done nothing in over a decade for a reason 

Championing people like Hoddle and Sam and Hodgson is the reason why England will amount to nothing on the big stage 

Both the cricket teams and Rugby teams understood that you don't need an Englishman in charge to succeed you just need the right person regardless of nationality 

Having the first requirement being English is straight away dropping the level of managers available
		
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I didn't champion Sam or Hodgson.

As has already been said, "We've been down the Foreigner Manager route before".

It just wouldn't sit right with me - it has to be England team - England Manager.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 28, 2016)

Golfmmad said:



			I didn't champion Sam or Hodgson.

As has already been said, "We've been down the Foreigner Manager route before".

It just wouldn't sit right with me - it has to be England team - England Manager.
		
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The foreign manager that better any previous English managers results over the last 20 years 

Sticking with English - sticks with disappointment and failure or reducing expectations.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 28, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Probably his previous would be the main issue. 

He does talk a good game and is highly respected football wise amongst the media.

The next England manager should be the best available regardless of nationality.
		
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Their is no chance of Hoddle getting the job, imagine the first question.
"Glenn, what are your thoughts on disabled people ?"
The FA wouldn't risk it, after this fiasco I genuinely don't think they've got a clue who next.
Agree on the best available.


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## Golfmmad (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I agree mate and that was then at 40 yrs old, he is at a better age now and won't be joining in and showing off in training like he used to!

What he said was in bad taste but many believe that he was harshly treated by the FA and I for one would like him to have another go.

Why not a short term contract to take us up to the 2018 WC? He is available and could start tomorrow.
		
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Yep, agreed, but they've already got Southgate for four games. Maybe Hoddle could join him and take over after.

Edit:

Just seen on the news,  Theo Walcott scored both goals for Arsenal tonight.
Oh how I wish he'd played at the Euros!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 28, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The foreign manager that better any previous English managers results over the last 20 years 

Sticking with English - sticks with disappointment and failure or reducing expectations.
		
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Agree we should look for the best and currently the best are foreign.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 28, 2016)

To use an analogy, and one I'm guessing at.

Liverpool desparately needed a LB going into this season. I "think" Klopp relaised this. We were linked with a few, put the odd bid in, but none happened. We may have gone down to 4-5th choice on what the scouts identified......but how far down the list do you go? Do you go with the17th best LB that you identify, or do you maybe say, lets wait until January or even next season, and get one that we really want. In the meantime, we'll play Milner there, cant be any worse.

I think the FA have the same conundrum.....how far down the list do you go, as there are no outstanding English candidates.

Or

Sod what nationality they are and instead of getting our 8th choice Englishman, who doesnt really tick any boxes, go with a foreigner who ticks a few of the boxes.

To me going for Bruce, Pardew et al (or el tel) is accepting mediocrity. It keeps the little Ingurlanders happy, but probably just carries on the years of under-achievement.


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## sawtooth (Sep 28, 2016)

Golfmmad said:



			Yep, agreed, but they've already got Southgate for four games. Maybe Hoddle could join him and take over after.

Edit:

Just seen on the news,  Theo Walcott scored both goals for Arsenal tonight.
Oh how I wish he'd played at the Euros!
		
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I'd be happy with that. After all its the English national team, team England should not include foreign staff. It doesn't happen in Germany and without looking it probably doesn't happen in Italy or Spain either. What a sad state of affairs that we cant trust any English coach with managing the national team. An own goal for the FA if ever I saw it. Millions spent on grass root development, training camp, Wembley, coaches, yet we don't have 1 single capable coach?!  

We tried the foreign manager route and it didn't work. It was worth doing to see if the problem really was with our coaches. It clearly isn't, its our players. They are technically short of where they should be, and mentally and emotionally they are not right either. I blame the FA. Introduce more home grown player rules and initiatives and get some more good young players through. Players that can use both feet, keep the ball on the ground, that are comfortable on the ball, that want to play for their country and ones that don't crumble as soon as the going gets tough.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I'd be happy with that. After all its the English national team, team England should not include foreign staff. It doesn't happen in Germany and without looking it probably doesn't happen in Italy or Spain either. What a sad state of affairs that we cant trust any English coach with managing the national team. An own goal for the FA if ever I saw it. Millions spent on grass root development, training camp, Wembley, coaches, yet we don't have 1 single capable coach?!  

We tried the foreign manager route and it didn't work. It was worth doing to see if the problem really was with our coaches. It clearly isn't, its our players. They are technically short of where they should be, and mentally and emotionally they are not right either. I blame the FA. Introduce more home grown player rules and initiatives and get some more good young players through. Players that can use both feet, keep the ball on the ground, that are comfortable on the ball, that want to play for their country and ones that don't crumble as soon as the going gets tough.
		
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My god, you just dont get it do you?

Spain, Italy and Germany have won many international trophies over the last 50 years.........so maybe they know something about winning, and dont have to go outside their countries for coaches.

Keep sticking your head in the sand, and crossing your fingers that an Englishman will do it, then.

Ok, my choices are:-

1. Arsene.
2. Wenger.
3. The current Arsenal manager, think he's French.

Happy now?


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## sawtooth (Sep 28, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			My god, you just dont get it do you?

Spain, Italy and Germany have won many international trophies over the last 50 years.........so maybe they know something about winning, and dont have to go outside their countries for coaches.

Keep sticking your head in the sand, and crossing your fingers that an Englishman will do it, then.

Ok, my choices are:-

1. Arsene.
2. Wenger.
3. The current Arsenal manager, think he's French.

Happy now?
		
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You cant polish a turd and that's what you want to do by getting the best foreign coach in the world.

Problems run deeper than that and if anyone has their heads in the sand its the FA. The system is broke its not the man that picks the team and formation.

You think Pep will win us the world cup? Think again.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			You cant polish a turd and that's what you want to do by getting the best foreign coach in the world.

Problems run deeper than that and if anyone has their heads in the sand its the FA. The system is broke its not the man that picks the team and formation.

You think Pep will win us the world cup? Think again.
		
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Q.   Which England manager (except Sam) has the best win % during their time as Manager?

A.   That lad from Devon, Fabio Capello.

So when we tried the foreign route we got the better results and the media pushed for us to go back to an Englishman and all since have failed.

By the way, I'd have no issues with Wenger having a go.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 28, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			You cant polish a turd and that's what you want to do by getting the best foreign coach in the world.

Problems run deeper than that and if anyone has their heads in the sand its the FA. The system is broke its not the man that picks the team and formation.

You think Pep will win us the world cup? Think again.
		
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More chance than Bruce or Pardew.:thup:


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## sawtooth (Sep 28, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			More chance than Bruce or Pardew.:thup:
		
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Would he though? He couldn't transfer Hart for Bravo for starters. He would be stuck with Smalling, Cahill, Rooney..... It would probably be hugely frustrating for Pep.

Bruce or Pardew might get the same if not more from the current crop of players you don't know. History suggests I'm right because we've had supposed world class foreign coaches before and they have failed miserably.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 29, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Would he though? He couldn't transfer Hart for Bravo for starters. He would be stuck with Smalling, Cahill, Rooney..... It would probably be hugely frustrating for Pep.

Bruce or Pardew might get the same if not more from the current crop of players you don't know. History suggests I'm right because we've had supposed world class foreign coaches before and they have failed miserably.
		
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History also suggests that English managers have failed miserably, so cant see how you are right.


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## sawtooth (Sep 29, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			History also suggests that English managers have failed miserably, so cant see how you are right.
		
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Right in the sense that players are the main problem not the coaches. 

You can only be as good as the players allow you to be so it may not matter a great deal to have English coaches.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 29, 2016)

No idea why the FA have a continuing fixation with an English manager when it works in other sports and for other countries. Find the best man for the job surely, and to my mind that isn't Southgate, Hoddle, Bruce, Pardew etc or indeed any of the current Emglish options available


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## Papas1982 (Sep 29, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			No idea why the FA have a continuing fixation with an English manager when it works in other sports and for other countries. Find the best man for the job surely, and to my mind that isn't Southgate, Hoddle, Bruce, Pardew etc or indeed any of the current Emglish options available
		
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Whilst i agree we don't really have any top English coaches, i still don't believe a foreign coach is the way to go. We have lost our identity somewhere, we've tried to slow our play down control possession more but thats simply not our way. The majority of our players play high tempo premiership football and i think thats our best way to progress as a nation. I remember when players and the manager would be harassed for not singing the anthem passionately enough. I genuinely cant imagine that when the chios are down in a semi final that a foreign coach would get as worked up managing a different nation against his own.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 29, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Whilst i agree we don't really have any top English coaches, i still don't believe a foreign coach is the way to go. We have lost our identity somewhere, we've tried to slow our play down control possession more but thats simply not our way. The majority of our players play high tempo premiership football and i think thats our best way to progress as a nation. I remember when players and the manager would be harassed for not singing the anthem passionately enough. I genuinely cant imagine that when the chios are down in a semi final that a foreign coach would get as worked up managing a different nation against his own.
		
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But surely a good coach can adapt their strategies and style to an English way of playing without trying to get the players to try and play something foreign to what they do week in week out, and it's one of things I think undid Sven at the finals. Basically whatever you cut it, we as a footballing nation are in the smelly stuff and it could take a while to get out and get it right, at which time we lose the potential of Rashford etc going forward


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## Imurg (Sep 29, 2016)

I don't get this " must be English" stance...
Don't we want the best manager for the job..?
Why does it matter where he or even she comes from?
If your choice is between a 3rd tier Englishman and a top notch foreigner it seems many would prefer to be Crewe rather than Man C/Liverpool/ManU etc...
I don't understand.
English managers haven't had much success in the last 40 years have they.....
Bring in the best .....


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## Marshy77 (Sep 29, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Right in the sense that players are the main problem not the coaches. 

You can only be as good as the players allow you to be so it may not matter a great deal to have English coaches.
		
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Not sure about that, look what he's done to Sterling in the few months that he's been at City. If the players are safe in the knowledge that they'll carry on the English way then they aren't going to do or learn any that new. With a 'Pep' style manager/management he may be able to draw something from them that an English coach couldn't or wouldn't do.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 29, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			You cant polish a turd and that's what you want to do by getting the best foreign coach in the world.

Problems run deeper than that and if anyone has their heads in the sand its the FA. The system is broke its not the man that picks the team and formation.

You think Pep will win us the world cup? Think again.
		
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Oi, keep Pep out of this discussion, he is happy where he is.
That aside. What Pep does do is improve players. Well at least the ones he can work with. YaYa and Joe  Hart are ones that he cannot. He does not work with egos, so there would be your Rooney problem playing for England sorted straight away. Sterling and Stones are playing out of there skins. In a stonking game last night Sterling was MEN player of the night. Quite frankly, the comment you cannot 
" polish a turd" which is a personal favourite saying of mine, does not stop at the English football team. The whole of the FA is a turd. 
Missis T said, yup we are goin to find out about more managers who have been stung, but will we hear about managers who refused to take bungs. Er no because it don't sell papers.


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## Fyldewhite (Sep 29, 2016)

BIG SAM GOES TO VILLA

Headline of the day in the Star.....his Spanish villa, obviously.


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## freddielong (Sep 29, 2016)

The England manager doesnt need to be a top foreign coach all these players are trained and kept fit at their respective clubs, the couple of weeks here and there they spend with the national team isn't going to change them as a player they are not going to develop whilst away with England so to me it just needs to be someone who is a really good tactician and really good at getting their point across.


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## sawtooth (Sep 29, 2016)

Marshy77 said:



			Not sure about that, look what he's done to Sterling in the few months that he's been at City. If the players are safe in the knowledge that they'll carry on the English way then they aren't going to do or learn any that new. With a 'Pep' style manager/management he may be able to draw something from them that an English coach couldn't or wouldn't do.
		
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One player playing a bit like he should be playing anyway. Any new manager coming in gets a response it doesn't matter who it is.

Capello, Erickson? Weren't they top coaches?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 29, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			One player playing a bit like he should be playing anyway. Any new manager coming in gets a response it doesn't matter who it is.

Capello, Erickson? Weren't they top coaches?
		
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And both produced better results than English managers 

Do you actually expect England to win comps ? Or did they both achieve what you would expect of the England team when you consider the last 50 years results 

Does anyone really expect England to win comps ?


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## sawtooth (Sep 29, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And both produced better results than English managers 

Do you actually expect England to win comps ? Or did they both achieve what you would expect of the England team when you consider the last 50 years results 

Does anyone really expect England to win comps ?
		
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I think the FA expect.

Point I am making is that the foreign coaches didn't make much of a difference. 

I know that if they got another fantastic foreign world class manager in , that the results will much be the same as before. 

Coast through qualifying and fall away in the tournament last 16, QF or if we are very lucky SF.

There's not enough English players in the PL playing week in week out, there lies part of the problem for me.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 29, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I think the FA expect.

Point I am making is that the foreign coaches didn't make much of a difference. 

I know that if they got another fantastic foreign world class manager in , that the results will much be the same as before. 

Coast through qualifying and fall away in the tournament last 16, QF or if we are very lucky SF.

There's not enough English players in the PL playing week in week out, there lies part of the problem for me.
		
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Foreign coaches got better results than English ones - they made a difference but were hounded out by media and fans with inflated expectations 

English coaches didn't even qualify for comps or didn't even get out of the groups 

And as for not enough English players - look know further than your own club who were first to have a team with zero English players in it


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## sawtooth (Sep 29, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Foreign coaches got better results than English ones - they made a difference but were hounded out by media and fans with inflated expectations 

English coaches didn't even qualify for comps or didn't even get out of the groups 

And as for not enough English players - look know further than your own club who were first to have a team with zero English players in it
		
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Yeah Yeah I know that we don't play enough let's not make this a club argument. 

The FA need to get clubs to start playing more English players it's as simple as that. 

There's not enough competition for places and where are all the young English players? In the lower leagues.


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## Fyldewhite (Sep 29, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And both produced better results than English managers 

Do you actually expect England to win comps ? Or did they both achieve what you would expect of the England team when you consider the last 50 years results 

Does anyone really expect England to win comps ?
		
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No, but I think we are in a group who "could" win. Especially at the Euros. There's only ever one winner and lots of disappointed teams but for a team like England then it's QF minimum or it's a failure. The difference between QF and winning is often a bit of luck at the right time (we were very unlucky in 1990 and 1996) but you have to get there and the more often you get there the better chance of that bit of luck happening. We simply don't make the QF stage often enough.......and we should. Every time.


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## Beezerk (Sep 29, 2016)

Fyldewhite said:



			No, but I think we are in a group who "could" win. Especially at the Euros. There's only ever one winner and lots of disappointed teams but for a team like England then it's QF minimum or it's a failure. The difference between QF and winning is often a bit of luck at the right time (we were very unlucky in 1990 and 1996) but you have to get there and the more often you get there the better chance of that bit of luck happening. We simply don't make the QF stage often enough.......and we should. Every time.
		
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We obviously aren't good enough to make QF's now. Only way is to get a manager who will craft the current overrated squad into a team who will work for each other and go that extra mile. Too many individuals at the minute and no understanding of how they should be playing.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 29, 2016)

If that Portugal team could win a tournament, Greece not too far back, then England certainly can. I don't see us as being a favourite in the way Germany or Spain often are but we are capable of getting to the QF and at that point anyone can win.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 29, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Right in the sense that players are the main problem not the coaches. 

You can only be as good as the players allow you to be so it may not matter a great deal to have English coaches.
		
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So Leicester under Pearson nearly went down, the same players under Ranieri won the league.

2004 Liverpool didn't do anything under Houllier, 2005 won the champions league under Benitez.

It is a mix of both of players and manager, so no, your not right.:thup:


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 29, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Whilst i agree we don't really have any top English coaches, i still don't believe a foreign coach is the way to go. We have lost our identity somewhere, we've tried to slow our play down control possession more but thats simply not our way. The majority of our players play high tempo premiership football and i think thats our best way to progress as a nation. I remember when players and the manager would be harassed for not singing the anthem passionately enough. I genuinely cant imagine that when the chios are down in a semi final that a foreign coach would get as worked up managing a different nation against his own.
		
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I'd like someone to tell Klopp, Ferguson, Mourinho that they cant inspire a team.

Its not just an English trait.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 29, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I think the FA expect.

Point I am making is that the foreign coaches didn't make much of a difference. 

I know that if they got another fantastic foreign world class manager in , that the results will much be the same as before. 

Coast through qualifying and fall away in the tournament last 16, QF or if we are very lucky SF.

There's not enough English players in the PL playing week in week out, there lies part of the problem for me.
		
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Arsenal had British coaches for over a century - who was their heyday under? (Or at least for the first 10years) - a foreign manager.

If you want an English manager, no matter, fair enough, but you cant honestly say that English managers have performed BETTER than the two foreign ones, and have mainly been worse.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 29, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And as for not enough English players - look know further than your own club who were first to have a team with zero English players in it
		
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Actually Liverpool were in the 1986 FA cup final, although our sub was.


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## Tongo (Sep 29, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I think the FA expect.

Point I am making is that the foreign coaches didn't make much of a difference. 

I know that if they got another fantastic foreign world class manager in , that the results will much be the same as before. 

Coast through qualifying and fall away in the tournament last 16, QF or if we are very lucky SF.

*There's not enough English players in the PL playing week in week out, there lies part of the problem for me*.
		
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Yes. And those players are also those who are workhorses and do all the running around. So the English players that do play are lacking in skill and technique.


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## sawtooth (Sep 29, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			So Leicester under Pearson nearly went down, the same players under Ranieri won the league.

2004 Liverpool didn't do anything under Houllier, 2005 won the champions league under Benitez.

It is a mix of both of players and manager, so no, your not right.:thup:
		
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Leicester is Leicester and Liverpool is Liverpool. This is England and the players aren't as good as we think they are. Several coaches can't all be wrong. 

And you need enormous amount of luck , look at Liverpool when they won CL ;-)


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## sawtooth (Sep 29, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Arsenal had British coaches for over a century - who was their heyday under? (Or at least for the first 10years) - a foreign manager.

If you want an English manager, no matter, fair enough, but you cant honestly say that English managers have performed BETTER than the two foreign ones, and have mainly been worse.
		
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Not saying a Englishman would. be better. I'm saying that you would get more improvement if you looked at the quality of the players rather than swapping  managers constantly.

BTW the clue is in the name England Team.  How can it be an England team managed by a foreign manager and backroom staff?

Do they do this in Italy, Spain, Germany, France even? Not sure that they do, and you have to ask yourself why is that?

Problem is the FA not the manager IMO.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 29, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Leicester is Leicester and Liverpool is Liverpool. This is England and the players aren't as good as we think they are. Several coaches can't all be wrong. 

And you need enormous amount of luck , look at Liverpool when they won CL ;-)
		
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International football isn't totally alien compared to other football

Managers still manage their players and get the best out of them 

If the manager isn't good enough then that will be reflected in the results 

Get a better manager and they will always get more from the players regardless of it being international or club football 

England being poor over the last three tournaments is down to poor management IMO


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 29, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Leicester is Leicester and Liverpool is Liverpool. This is England and the players aren't as good as we think they are. Several coaches can't all be wrong. 

And you need enormous amount of luck , look at Liverpool when they won CL ;-)
		
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That's the biggest bail out on an argument I've ever seen. Very poor.

They are all football teams, with the main constituents being the manager and the players.

Surely, you know the value of a good manager???????

If its all about luck, Arsene must have dropped a pallet full of mirrors, whilst walking in the basement of ladders-for-us on the same side of the road as the black cattery!!!!


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## sawtooth (Sep 29, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			That's the biggest bail out on an argument I've ever seen. Very poor.

They are all football teams, with the main constituents being the manager and the players.

Surely, you know the value of a good manager???????

If its all about luck, Arsene must have dropped a pallet full of mirrors, whilst walking in the basement of ladders-for-us on the same side of the road as the black cattery!!!!
		
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It's disingenuous to say that Ranieri alone made the diffierence , he bought Kante  Fuchs Huth Okazaki and others. You can't do that at International level, you can't just go and magic up players.


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## NWJocko (Sep 29, 2016)

Re Southgate, anyone follow the u21's to know how he's done with them?

I'd imagine if he does well in the next few games it would be his to lose then?


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 29, 2016)

He has actually done very well and won an U'21 tournament, the Toulon tournament, this summer. I agree with your last sentence.


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## freddielong (Sep 29, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			So Leicester under Pearson nearly went down, the same players under Ranieri won the league.
		
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Although that is factually correct he did get them playing most of the season and which included an amazing run of results at the end of the seson to keep them up.


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## user2010 (Sep 29, 2016)

If some on here are wanting to put, old, past it, talks a good game, not worked at a high level of management in years, doesn`t know the modern game and has held some pretty obnoxious views on people and has "served his time", up for the next England Manager, can I throw Big Ron`s hat into the ring please.:rofl:


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## patricks148 (Sep 29, 2016)

What About Harry Redknapp , surely in the same situation as Big Sam, he would have said "no i couldn't possibly do that, I'll have to report you to the authorities":rofl::rofl:


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 29, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			It's disingenuous to say that Ranieri alone made the diffierence , he bought Kante  Fuchs Huth Okazaki and others. You can't do that at International level, you can't just go and magic up players.
		
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No its not.

Most premiership clubs sign 5 or more players a season, and to turn them from relegation-escapers into champions is mainly to the managers credit.

I think they won the last 7 games under Pearson. Lots of other relegation threatened teams have gone on a similar run at the end of the season, but not gone on to win the league the following season, or lets face it even finished top 8-10 the following season.


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## fundy (Sep 29, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



*Arsenal had British coaches for over a century - who was their heyday under?* (Or at least for the first 10years) - a foreign manager.

If you want an English manager, no matter, fair enough, but you cant honestly say that English managers have performed BETTER than the two foreign ones, and have mainly been worse.
		
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Think you'll find Herbert Chapman was as English as they come


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 29, 2016)

fundy said:



			Think you'll find Herbert Chapman was as English as they come 

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He was, but I thought his better years were at Huddersfield.Arsene still won more though.


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## sawtooth (Sep 29, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			No its not.

Most premiership clubs sign 5 or more players a season, and to turn them from relegation-escapers into champions is mainly to the managers credit.

I think they won the last 7 games under Pearson. Lots of other relegation threatened teams have gone on a similar run at the end of the season, but not gone on to win the league the following season, or lets face it even finished top 8-10 the following season.
		
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You kind of implied that Leicester came from relegation material to champions just by changing the manager. Not true, they added 4-5 players most of which were key for last season. 

What can the next England manager do if he wants/needs better players?


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## Golfmmad (Sep 29, 2016)

Gareth Southgate should be given a chance. He's played at the top level - International and Premiership football.

Managed England at U21's and been very successful, knows all the up and coming youngsters which bodes well for the future. If he does do well in the next four games and is given the job I do hope he is given some time to develop.

The FA hopefully will change things in the whole set up - especially at grass roots level. Not sure if there is one these days but a Director of Football - a visionary should be appointed. Also if Southgate is given the job then a lot of thought should be given to his assistant - any ideas? 

I listened to Talk Sport this morning (haven't tuned in for a long time) and they had Adrian Bevington on, formerly at the FA. He was on for about an hour or so and what he had to say  about Allardyce and the FA was very interesting and insightful. He said that they showed great leadership and decisiveness at the way they acted very swiftly. He was asked why Sam was taken on after his dealings of some years ago. He made the point that even with the toughest due diligence over his appointment, how can anybody know what he decides to do at any given time. And the moment SA agreed to the meeting that was the end of his England job which was all his own decision to do so.

Some of the things he had to say about the FA showed that it's not filled with stuffed old shirts as some on here would say, more that it's a great business empire and brings a lot of income and contributes a substantial amount of tax funds going to the Inland Revenue. Also, all the people involved at the FA care passionately about English Football.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 29, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			You kind of implied that Leicester came from relegation material to champions just by changing the manager. Not true, they added 4-5 players most of which were key for last season. 

What can the next England manager do if he wants/needs better players?
		
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For a start, they had Huth the year before Ranieri came.

Secondly, coach them better. England normally have a core of 25-30 players that with the right style of play, tactics, can and should be getting to semi-finals or even better. Just because second-rate English England managers dont get them there, doesnt factually mean that a good German/Spanish/Brazilian coach couldnt.

Keep making the same mistakes of the last 50 years then.

Busby,Shankly, Clough,Paisley, Ferguson all never picked by the FA for their top job - keep accepting mediocrity, and thats what you will get and for that I cant believe that you want another Englishman. This generation is the worst ever, as well, so even more mediocre than normal.......and you want them to reach even lower.

Lets say that Bruce, Pardew, Southgate didnt want it, do you then go even lower, just cos they are English?

I guarantee you that if a German won us the world cup, you wouldnt be bothered in the slightest, amongst all the furore.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 29, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			You kind of implied that Leicester came from relegation material to champions just by changing the manager. Not true, they added 4-5 players most of which were key for last season. 

What can the next England manager do if he wants/needs better players?
		
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Does it bother you that the Ryder cup is now Europe and not GB&I?


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## Papas1982 (Sep 29, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			Does it bother you that the Ryder cup is now Europe and not GB&I?
		
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If we won with a foreign manager it would absolutely be tainted for me, just like i wouldn't want us to adopt the cricket and rugby route of overseas players. 

The golf was already a mixed event. Been as i consider myself English when england partake in sports, i wan englands best to win. 

The Ryder cup, we are part of a European team so i wAnt Europe to win. If there was an english team v europe v america then i'd want England to win. I wasn't into golf prior to europe joing so i cant say how i would feel about it changing.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 29, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			For a start, they had Huth the year before Ranieri came.

Secondly, coach them better. England normally have a core of 25-30 players that with the right style of play, tactics, can and should be getting to semi-finals or even better. Just because second-rate English England managers dont get them there, doesnt factually mean that a good German/Spanish/Brazilian coach couldnt.

Keep making the same mistakes of the last 50 years then.

Busby,Shankly, Clough,Paisley, Ferguson all never picked by the FA for their top job - keep accepting mediocrity, and thats what you will get and for that I cant believe that you want another Englishman. This generation is the worst ever, as well, so even more mediocre than normal.......and you want them to reach even lower.

Lets say that Bruce, Pardew, Southgate didnt want it, do you then go even lower, just cos they are English?

I guarantee you that if a German won us the world cup, you wouldnt be bothered in the slightest, amongst all the furore.
		
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Totally agree with your post, but, Busby clashed with Ramsey, Clough was way too loud, Paisley no idea why not (maybe age when he finished with you's), the other 2, not in a million years will the "old boys" at the FA have a Scottish person in charge.
Should've tried for SAF years ago.


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## sawtooth (Sep 29, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			If we won with a foreign manager it would absolutely be tainted for me, just like i wouldn't want us to adopt the cricket and rugby route of overseas players. 

The golf was already a mixed event. Been as i consider myself English when england partake in sports, i wan englands best to win. 

The Ryder cup, we are part of a European team so i wAnt Europe to win. If there was an english team v europe v america then i'd want England to win. I wasn't into golf prior to europe joing so i cant say how i would feel about it changing.
		
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Ditto.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 29, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Ditto.
		
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If England won the WC it wouldn't matter one single bit to people what nationality the manager is - not one single bit , if you look at record books there is never an asterisk next to Greece to say it's tainted that they won with a German in charge 

Just like people didn't care with an Aussie in charge as England Rugby and Cricket won Ashes and Grand Slams 


Would you prefer to get to KO stage with an Englishman in charge or win with a German/Dutchman in charge ?


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 29, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			If we won with a foreign manager it would absolutely be tainted for me, just like i wouldn't want us to adopt the cricket and rugby route of overseas players. 

The golf was already a mixed event. Been as i consider myself English when england partake in sports, i wan englands best to win. 

The Ryder cup, we are part of a European team so i wAnt Europe to win. If there was an english team v europe v america then i'd want England to win. I wasn't into golf prior to europe joing so i cant say how i would feel about it changing.
		
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I understand as far as players are concerned, totally agree. There was a thing a few years ago about players who had played in the prem for more than 5 years could then play for England - totally against that. Its different for me for the manager.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 29, 2016)

So if you're so English, why don't  some of you support the English teams you don't follow in Europe and want them to win, oh hang on that's different.......not.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 29, 2016)

Liverbirdie said:



			I understand as far as players are concerned, totally agree. There was a thing a few years ago about players who had played in the prem for more than 5 years could then play for England - totally against that. Its different for me for the manager.
		
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I fully accept my view is in the minority, and once in charge i imagine i would cheer as much as others. But, if i was to choose perfect scenario, it would include Englishmen from top to bottom. My simplistic view is that it should be "our" best, against the rest.

I believe we would do better with Pep than any current offering, just isnt what i'd like to see. Jose has always said he see's himself managing portgual. Imagine he takes us to a world cup and weeks before Portugal lose their manager for one reason or another. Would he turn down a last minute sos from them? Thats my main issue, not their abilty. More their loyalty.


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 29, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			I fully accept my view is in the minority, and once in charge i imagine i would cheer as much as others. But, if i was to choose perfect scenario, it would include Englishmen from top to bottom. My simplistic view is that it should be "our" best, against the rest.

I believe we would do better with Pep than any current offering, just isnt what i'd like to see. Jose has always said he see's himself managing portgual. Imagine he takes us to a world cup and weeks before Portugal lose their manager for one reason or another. Would he turn down a last minute sos from them? Thats my main issue, not their abilty. More their loyalty.
		
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Johnny foreigner not being loyal then.


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## Birchy (Sep 29, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			I fully accept my view is in the minority, and once in charge i imagine i would cheer as much as others. But, if i was to choose perfect scenario, it would include Englishmen from top to bottom. My simplistic view is that it should be "our" best, against the rest.

I believe we would do better with Pep than any current offering, just isnt what i'd like to see. Jose has always said he see's himself managing portgual. Imagine he takes us to a world cup and weeks before Portugal lose their manager for one reason or another. Would he turn down a last minute sos from them? Thats my main issue, not their abilty. More their loyalty.
		
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I wouldn't worry about the special one ever getting the job


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 29, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			If we won with a foreign manager it would absolutely be tainted for me, just like i wouldn't want us to adopt the cricket and rugby route of overseas players.
		
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sawtooth said:



			Ditto.
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



			If England won the WC it wouldn't matter one single bit to people what nationality the manager is - not one single bit
		
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Your comment has already been proved incorrect by two posters before you LP. Just because it wouldn't matter to you doesn't mean you can force that opinion onto others who clearly have a different view.


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## freddielong (Sep 29, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Your comment has already been proved incorrect by two posters before you LP. Just because it wouldn't matter to you doesn't mean you can force that opinion onto others who clearly have a different view.
		
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To be fair Liverpoolphil said people not all people so his comments haven't been proved to be incorrect,  I for one wouldn't care where the manager was from we are limited to the players we can pick why make things harder by limiting the manager as well


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 30, 2016)

Best man for the job surely irrespective of nationality. Whether that person would actually want it with all the baggage and crap that comes with it is another issue.


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## Beezerk (Sep 30, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He has actually done very well and won an U'21 tournament, the Toulon tournament, this summer. I agree with your last sentence.
		
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The brand of football played by the U21's is worse than the senior team, and that takes some doing.


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## USER1999 (Sep 30, 2016)

Beezerk said:



			The brand of football played by the U21's is worse than the senior team, and that takes some doing.
		
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At least they don't have to shoe horn Rooney into the team though.


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## Hacker Khan (Sep 30, 2016)

murphthemog said:



			At least they don't have to shoe horn Rooney into the team though.
		
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## User62651 (Oct 2, 2016)

Think this commonly held view that the England football team manger must be English is utter nonsense, take a look at the Rugby Union team, they've gone for an Aussie who has transformed Englands fortunes in a very short time to be the second top side in the world, pushing for top. You go for the every best coach available, what nationality they are is irrelevant. If Guardiola was available you'd have to be insane not to take him for England manager. Klopp would be a good appointment too....imo.
Wenger would be a poor poor choice imo, he does not inspire, sorry.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 2, 2016)

maxfli65 said:



			Think this commonly held view that the England football team manger must be English is utter nonsense, take a look at the Rugby Union team, they've gone for an Aussie who has transformed Englands fortunes in a very short time to be the second top side in the world, pushing for top. You go for the every best coach available, what nationality they are is irrelevant. If Guardiola was available you'd have to be insane not to take him for England manager. Klopp would be a good appointment too....imo.
Wenger would be a poor poor choice imo, he does not inspire, sorry.
		
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Both cricket and rugby have both openly accepted people with dubious links to a nation to play for them too. In football it's yet to really happen. So whilst I fully accept that guadiola would do a better job than any English option. I still don't want him too do the job.


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## sawtooth (Oct 2, 2016)

maxfli65 said:



			Think this commonly held view that the England football team manger must be English is utter nonsense, take a look at the Rugby Union team, they've gone for an Aussie who has transformed Englands fortunes in a very short time to be the second top side in the world, pushing for top. You go for the every best coach available, what nationality they are is irrelevant. If Guardiola was available you'd have to be insane not to take him for England manager. Klopp would be a good appointment too....imo.
Wenger would be a poor poor choice imo, he does not inspire, sorry.
		
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You're missing the point. Foreign is considered wrong by some because it's the ENGLAND national team not because they wouldn't.be any good.

For me it's no different  to playing German or Spanish players, The manager and back room staff are integral parts of the England team.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 2, 2016)

Beezerk said:



			The brand of football played by the U21's is worse than the senior team, and that takes some doing.
		
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Total & utter tosh!!

The U21's play with a greater sense of purpose and individuals have a clear understanding of their personal role and responsibilities.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 2, 2016)

Am bias but I think Southgate may give Jwp a chance in full squad soon. Immense deadball and great range of passing. Never let's the u21 down. 

Can't believe be doesn't start for us at St Mary's.


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## sawtooth (Oct 2, 2016)

maxfli65 said:



			If Guardiola was available you'd have to be insane not to take him for England manager.
		
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Problem with people is that they forget how good the players were at Barca and Bayern. We don't have them in England. 

The Icelandic manager would be a better bet. Now theres someone who really does know how to make the most of what he has.


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## Tongo (Oct 2, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Both cricket and rugby have both openly accepted people with dubious links to a nation to play for them too. In football it's yet to really happen. So whilst I fully accept that guadiola would do a better job than any English option. I still don't want him too do the job.
		
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sawtooth said:



			You're missing the point. Foreign is considered wrong by some because it's the ENGLAND national team not because they wouldn't.be any good.

For me it's no different  to playing German or Spanish players, The manager and back room staff are integral parts of the England team.
		
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maxfli65 said:



			Think this commonly held view that the England football team manger must be English is utter nonsense, take a look at the Rugby Union team, they've gone for an Aussie who has transformed Englands fortunes in a very short time to be the second top side in the world, pushing for top. You go for the every best coach available, what nationality they are is irrelevant. If Guardiola was available you'd have to be insane not to take him for England manager. Klopp would be a good appointment too....imo.
Wenger would be a poor poor choice imo, he does not inspire, sorry.
		
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I dunno about rugby but with the cricket it was a case that England had better players and players who could play a different style in limited overs cricket; its just they werent being selected. Look at how players like Jason Roy and David Willey came into the ODI and T20 teams and made a difference. 

Does the England football team have better players not being selected? I dont think so. 

Some will highlight how England's cricket team has players like Roy who were born abroad. This also happens in Football. Check out the German, French and Belgian squads, for instance at the last Euros. the only country where players are born elsewhere seems to be England. Make of that what you will.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 2, 2016)

Tongo said:



			I dunno about rugby but with the cricket it was a case that England had better players and players who could play a different style in limited overs cricket; its just they werent being selected. Look at how players like Jason Roy and David Willey came into the ODI and T20 teams and made a difference. 

Does the England football team have better players not being selected? I dont think so. 

Some will highlight how England's cricket team has players like Roy who were born abroad. This also happens in Football. Check out the German, French and Belgian squads, for instance at the last Euros. the only country where players are born elsewhere seems to be England. Make of that what you will.
		
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I gues it comes down to what you as a fan want. 

Me, I want English players playing their best. If that's not good enough I'll accept it. I can honestly say that I would not want England's top scoring World Cup striker to be polish. The Germans seem happy with it and good luck to em, but it's not for me. 

So when I watch the cricket I still want England to win. And Pieterson was one of my fav to watch for his style and entertainment, but it doesn't have me gripped as much, doesn't give me the same pleasure as when the football team do well as I bieleice it's tainted. Only my opinion, but one that I know others share.


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## Tongo (Oct 2, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			I gues it comes down to what you as a fan want. 

Me, I want English players playing their best. If that's not good enough I'll accept it. I can honestly say that I would not want England's top scoring World Cup striker to be polish. The Germans seem happy with it and good luck to em, but it's not for me. 

So when I watch the cricket I still want England to win. And Pieterson was one of my fav to watch for his style and entertainment, but it doesn't have me gripped as much, doesn't give me the same pleasure as when the football team do well as I bieleice it's tainted. Only my opinion, but one that I know others share.
		
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I think its more than just players being poached from other countries. Modern day demographics dictate that people move around more; the advent of the EU and no borders has probably meant people are born in one country and move to another. This is the world we live in. 

Anyhow, Terry Butcher was born in Singapore, John Barnes in Jamaica, Owen Hargreaves in Canada......

#justsayin


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## Papas1982 (Oct 2, 2016)

Tongo said:



			I think its more than just players being poached from other countries. Modern day demographics dictate that people move around more; the advent of the EU and no borders has probably meant people are born in one country and move to another. This is the world we live in. 

Anyhow, Terry Butcher was born in Singapore, John Barnes in Jamaica, Owen Hargreaves in Canada......

#justsayin
		
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I accept that many move around, but IMO the comparisons are far apart. If you adopt a country you've lived in as a child that's totally different to choosing a country as an adult for a perceived benefit. 

Allowing people pled to live and work in a country is something I fully support. But IMO opinion representing your country should be the greatest source of pride and I can't imagine feeling the same desire to represent I'd merely soent a few years in for work.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 2, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Problem with people is that they forget how good the players were at Barca and Bayern. We don't have them in England. 

The Icelandic manager would be a better bet. Now theres someone who really does know how to make the most of what he has.
		
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Up to a point I see the analogy and I think Coleman and Wales fit that as well. I think there is still this air, especially in FA press, media and with some fans that we are better than we are and that we should almost qualify and do things as some kind of historic right. It doesn't work that way and the sooner those running the game in particular realise we need a man with an air of realism the better. I tend to think we'd be better served with a foreign manager not indoctrinated on this belief of how good we think we are and one that picks the best team possible and more importantly gets the most from them


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## USER1999 (Oct 3, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Both cricket and rugby have both openly accepted people with dubious links to a nation to play for them too. In football it's yet to really happen. So whilst I fully accept that guadiola would do a better job than any English option. I still don't want him too do the job.
		
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Tony Cascarino? As Irish as a very non Irish person.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 2, 2016)

So Gareth Southgate has got the managers job, one of his first comments was to say he wants the " all blacks " rugby team to be an example of how to perform with there kind of attitude to winning.
Gareth, the all blacks and New Zealand rugby at the moment is stuttering from one controversy to another, and at the moment is not a shining example of how to run a sport. 
Having said that, good luck.


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