# Plug In Hybrid Cars - Experiences?



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 31, 2020)

My current car is a Skoda Superb. Brilliant family car, swallows golf gear, people and luggage. Ideal for my current needs. I lease it through work and the lease ends at the end of June. I've looked around and nothing can beat it for what I want, cost etc I have a choice though:

1/ Buy the car myself at the end of the lease

2/ Lease the exact same car again, 2.0d, auto

3/ Lease the new plug in hybrid version.

The diesel version has a good lease rate, high BIK (tax) hit. The hybrid has a high lease rate, great BIK. The overall cost of the hybrid comes out slightly less than the diesel (it is my company so it is still my money paying the lease)

It then comes down to the cost of fuel, please no moralising at this point. It will come into it but not on this post. I do 20k miles a year. 150 per week commuting which would largely be covered with pure electric. Based on Golf and Passat GTE version it costs around £1 a night to charge. £5 for the weekly commute is clearly a winner compared to 3 gallons of diesel (I get 52-55mpg). If that was all I did, plus other localised driving it would not be an issue. I also do, and will do for the next 3 years, trips of 200 mile round trip and 400 mile round trip. In both instances I will not be able to charge at the other end and 15 minutes in a service station, assuming I can find a charging point, will not make a difference. For those journeys I will be largely petrol only or mild hybrid (not fully sure how it works) This is the bit that worries me.

I know people with the Mitsubishi Phev and it has been a disaster. The car is too big for the motor, the range is poor and the petrol only mpg is awful. I am wary of getting caught in the same trap, stuck for 3 yrs. I have been looking on VW and Skoda forums but experiences are still sketchy. Anyone know people on here with plug in hybrids and know how they compare on longer journeys. 

(before people kindly suggest other alternatives, I have pretty much checked them all out and they don't suit for one reason or another)


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## bobmac (Jan 31, 2020)

Have you looked at zap map?
https://www.zap-map.com/statistics/#location 
Tells you where the chargers are.

Also Fully charged is a great source of all thing EV/hybrid
https://www.youtube.com/user/fullychargedshow


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 31, 2020)

bobmac said:



			Have you looked at zap map?
https://www.zap-map.com/statistics/#location
Tells you where the chargers are.

Also Fully charged is a great source of all thing EV/hybrid
https://www.youtube.com/user/fullychargedshow

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I understand chargers will be dotted around but if I am doing a long journey I don't want to be spending time searching for a charger and then sat like a lemon when I just want to be back on the road. I am happy for some compromise but I want my eyes to be fully open before I dive in.

I will check out the Youtube site, thank you.


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## DRW (Jan 31, 2020)

Just in case you don't realise, have you seen the soon to be passed, new benefit in Kinds rates for Electric and Hybrid cars? Electric only would be 0% and some hybrids 0% for 1 year.

Going to be some big changes come April and of course the current incentives/breaks that are available on vehicles and business at work charging points and capital allowances on such vehicles.

Sorry don't know about ranges, as don't have one myself as yet but am looking, so following this with interest.


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## lobthewedge (Jan 31, 2020)

Just starting the process of renewing a dozen cars in our business, so i feel your pain.  BIK rates are killing off company car schemes, while the added costs of going electric/hybrid to a company cannot be ignored.  Its a delicate balance.

I have gone for a BMW 330e, but we got a great discount on the lease and my daily commute lends itself perfectly to the 30(ish) mile electric range.  The boot is pretty small, but luckily it passed the golf bag test, partly due to me having a cut down driver.

We are also looking at the Skoda hybrids due for release, and I have literally just come out of the Peugeot garage having had a look at the new 3008 plug in hybrid.  Just awaiting lease prices, with a view to spreading them over 48 months instead of our usual 36 in a hope to dilute the added costs.

Until a few years ago we had a car fleet of 22, but most have gone for a commercial option instead, taking advantage of the tax loophole this presents.


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## drdel (Jan 31, 2020)

We have run a Mitsubishi PHEV for several years. Totally reliable: a full charge (£1.10 for 22miles) and  tankfull (£37) gives  us a range of  325 miles for a  non-stop trip. Tows quite happily. 
When just on local runs we just use battery power from an overnight charge so get very cheap transport.

Hybrid cars need matching to your trip characteristics.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 31, 2020)

DRW said:



			Just in case you don't realise, have you seen the soon to be passed, new benefit in Kinds rates for Electric and Hybrid cars? Electric only would be 0% and some hybrids 0% for 1 year.

Going to be some big changes come April and of course the current incentives/breaks that are available on vehicles and business at work charging points and capital allowances on such vehicles.

Sorry don't know about ranges, as don't have one myself as yet but am looking, so following this with interest.
		
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Printing off the BIK rates for the next 3 years is the first thing I do when I am changing cars. I have to say I nearly fell off my chair when I saw the current one. I had not realised the jump that had occurred . It has certainly influenced the cars I have been looking at but sad to say the options are very limited still if you want anything bigger than a small family car


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 31, 2020)

Why not just buy your current lease car off the lease co, and run it until the other options are less "pioneer"?
I know we bought a hybrid Yaris for my wife last year, and she gets on average 68mpg total, but when I changed from my beloved diesel Barge to the petrol Mazda 3 it was because of the persecution of all things diesel,  hybrid and electric options weren't anywhere near enough or within reasonable budget.
 Personally I think it's going to be at least 10 years before  long term alternative options are out there, so in that respect I would keep your Barge mk3 and enjoy it


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Jan 31, 2020)

I have no grandchildren and thus don't fear the inevitable planet under water.
Plus, by global standards,  petrol/gasoline is cheap in the US.

So electric cars have to become much more convenient before I'll consider them.


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## Britishshooting (Jan 31, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I understand chargers will be dotted around but if I am doing a long journey I don't want to be spending time searching for a charger and then sat like a lemon when I just want to be back on the road. I am happy for some compromise but I want my eyes to be fully open before I dive in.

I will check out the Youtube site, thank you.
		
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I have a Tesla Model X  I never would have gone the full electric route personally and to be honest never looked into it previously however it was bestowed upon me as a company car so I had little choice in that regard.

I was very much of your mindset with full electric, and it's going to be different for every use case and the charging options available and the efficiency and personal requirements. However I would have only contemplated hybrid as a personal car mainly due to usability and charging restrictions.

I was VERY concerned as projects I work on can see me travel a few hundred miles each way several times a week. This is what actually lead to the Tesla being selected, most other options (from my boss's research) didn't have the range, efficient charging facilities etc. to make it a viable option.

This lead to the Tesla being selected as it has a very high range, very efficient supercharging at a lot of service stations with supercharger facilities.

It works well for me I can drive good distances, park up at a supercharger and have a walk, make calls and send e-mails for half hour whilst it juices up. Something I never factored in before and I do believe to be good for my general well being as a work car. I don't think I could physically make an electric car that charged at a much slower rate work for me however and genuinely don't know how people with a range of <200 miles and non supercharging facilities make it work for anything other than general pottering about and a typical work commute.

I have to be careful if i'm only commuting I don't charge it too often as I have a charge point at home and the office ant it's recommended ideally to charge up when it gets to the 20% mark rather than keep the battery constantly topped up and never run down. This in itself can be an issue for some people as if in say a normal electric car you are considering battery life and something comes up which means you urgently need to drive somewhere you may not have the time to charge it up from that point if you have run it down to 30% lets say.

I must admit I miss filling up with petrol/diesel it seemed a much simpler time and I never felt exposed. Now i plot my journeys via superchargers and dependent on site location have to factor in more time for long range journeys. I've not been caught out yet but I've been very close, in anything with a lesser range I doubt I could make it work.

Cracking car though, I've had 500bhp cosworths and evo's in my mid 20's and this thing in would eat them alive, in ludicrous mode there is no comparison. It's easy to forget as it does feel so refined in comparison. My old man absolutely adores it. He's been a mechanic all his life and this thing just baffles him but I guess electric cars are other worldly to old school mechanics.


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## Hacker Khan (Jan 31, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			My current car is a Skoda Superb. Brilliant family car, swallows golf gear, people and luggage. Ideal for my current needs. I lease it through work and the lease ends at the end of June. I've looked around and nothing can beat it for what I want, cost etc I have a choice though:

1/ Buy the car myself at the end of the lease

2/ Lease the exact same car again, 2.0d, auto

3/ Lease the new plug in hybrid version.

The diesel version has a good lease rate, high BIK (tax) hit. The hybrid has a high lease rate, great BIK. The overall cost of the hybrid comes out slightly less than the diesel (it is my company so it is still my money paying the lease)

It then comes down to the cost of fuel, please no moralising at this point. It will come into it but not on this post. I do 20k miles a year. 150 per week commuting which would largely be covered with pure electric. Based on Golf and Passat GTE version it costs around £1 a night to charge. £5 for the weekly commute is clearly a winner compared to 3 gallons of diesel (I get 52-55mpg). If that was all I did, plus other localised driving it would not be an issue. I also do, and will do for the next 3 years, trips of 200 mile round trip and 400 mile round trip. In both instances I will not be able to charge at the other end and 15 minutes in a service station, assuming I can find a charging point, will not make a difference. For those journeys I will be largely petrol only or mild hybrid (not fully sure how it works) This is the bit that worries me.

I know people with the Mitsubishi Phev and it has been a disaster. The car is too big for the motor, the range is poor and the petrol only mpg is awful. I am wary of getting caught in the same trap, stuck for 3 yrs. I have been looking on VW and Skoda forums but experiences are still sketchy. Anyone know people on here with plug in hybrids and know how they compare on longer journeys.

(before people kindly suggest other alternatives, I have pretty much checked them all out and they don't suit for one reason or another)
		
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I'll be in a very similar situation to you soon, currently have a Passat diesel company car which we use when we go on long journeys in the UK but looks like a hybrid will be the way to go for my next company car, probably the Passat or Superb.

Mrs has a BMW 2 series hybrid and she's pleased with it.  Gets about 25 miles from the electric and then uses the petrol engine which is more than enough and is relatively efficient as long as you don't drive like a hooligan.  The tank is not massive but you can get pretty much anywhere you'd want to go on one tank of petrol. She's worked out that she is about the same financially when it comes to cost of fuel/electricity between her old car which was a diesel Golf and this one.  But the BIK savings are much more. But of course that depends on your main journeys, hers are usually 25 miles or so to work and back but if you are doing long journeys a lot then I expect the cost of fuel will be more as the electric will run out pretty soon a lot of the time. But again modern petrol engines are getting very efficient if driven sensibly.


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## Wolf (Jan 31, 2020)

I'd avoid the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV like the plague if your doing that sort of mileage. Friend of mine is sales manager at one of their dealership and said the only reason so many got them was for the initial BIK. They're great if you never do a journey over 30 miles  which is last time I spoke to him their full range off a full charge. The problem is the engine its not that its not powerful enough as its a 2L Evo petrol engine, its the fact it drains your tank quicker than Usain Bolt runs 100m due to the size & weight of the lump that is the car and batteries. So much so his dealership won't let anyone have them as a company car because it was rinsing the fuel cards. His exact words were great as a Chelsea tractor school run car, no good for business thst do many miles and charge fuel..


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 31, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Why not just buy your current lease car off the lease co, and run it until the other options are less "pioneer"?
I know we bought a hybrid Yaris for my wife last year, and she gets on average 68mpg total, but when I changed from my beloved diesel Barge to the petrol Mazda 3 it was because of the persecution of all things diesel,  hybrid and electric options weren't anywhere near enough or within reasonable budget.
 Personally I think it's going to be at least 10 years before  long term alternative options are out there, so in that respect I would keep your Barge mk3 and enjoy it

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If they offer it at a fair price I suspect this will be the road I go down. Sometimes they can be daft but hopefully not on this occasion.


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## Sats (Jan 31, 2020)

I like the Lexus SUV's  - mind you I've not driven them I'm purely going on looks. The only hybrids I've driven have been at work so Prius, Ionic and the i3. The i3 is like a golf cart and fun especially running around London but I don't know what it's like to own. 
Mind you BMW are releasing the 5 series, X1,X3 and x5 as hybrids.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 31, 2020)

Sats said:



			Mind you BMW are releasing the 5 series, X1,X3 and x5 as hybrids.
		
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The new 1 series is now front wheel drive, and that frees up room for hybrid/electric options in the future.


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## Hobbit (Jan 31, 2020)

I had an engineer who had the Golf version. Great car, no real problems etc. Another had the Mitsi, what a pain.

Here's a thought, bit off the wall. If 99% of your journeys are going to be local, short stuff, why not get the plug in but hire a decent diesel/petrol car for those odd trips down to the University...?


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 1, 2020)

Hobbit said:



			I had an engineer who had the Golf version. Great car, no real problems etc. Another had the Mitsi, what a pain.

Here's a thought, bit off the wall. If 99% of your journeys are going to be local, short stuff, why not get the plug in but hire a decent diesel/petrol car for those odd trips down to the University...?
		
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If it was 99% of journeys then I would look at this. At the moment however the ratio is not that one sided still. One of the purposes of one of the 400 mile round trips is to visit my mum. She is getting older, getting a little more frail and so that trip is going to be a little more frequent.

Your comment is one that is valid and should be looked at by many more. I'm sure it would work for many.

Thanks for the Golf comment. Same engine and set up so hopefully comparable. The Mitsubishi really does seem well intentioned but not up to it. Yet to hear a good comment about them.


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## PhilTheFragger (Feb 1, 2020)

We have 7 VW demo vehicles at work including 2 Passat Demo plug in hybrids.
We loan the cars out to various companies on behalf of VW.
The 2 Passats are always out and booked weeks in advance, lovely to drive, but only have a range of about 35 miles in full electric mode.

However this would work for 90% of my current car usage and it’s just a button to return to petrol mode.

We move cars for Peugeot, Citroen, DS, Vauxhall, Hyundai, BMW and Mercedes and the driver feedback on the new electric VX Corsa’s and Peugeot 208 / 2008 is very good.

In fact Peugeot has really got its act together in the last 2 or 3 years and is now producing some seriously good cars.

Our drivers fave is the Hyundai Ionic, great until you try to get someone over 5 ft 7 into the back seat as the roof slopes down and rubbish rear headroom


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 1, 2020)

I looked at the Hyundai. Agree about the rear, boot is too small for me and the interior looked cheap. Apart from that..............................

Interesting comments about the Peugeot, I haven't looked at them yet.

With regards to the Passat, how does the mileage go when the electric runs out?


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## bobmac (Feb 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I looked at the Hyundai. Agree about the rear, boot is too small for me and the interior looked cheap. Apart from that..............................

Interesting comments about the Peugeot, I haven't looked at them yet.

With regards to the Passat, how does the mileage go when the electric runs out?
		
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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 1, 2020)

Went in to my local skoda dealer this afternoon. They get a demonstrator on Tuesday, no charging point until Wednesday 😳. I started to ask some questions but the salesman quickly said he knew nothing, if I had searched on the internet then I might know more. Not a proud admission I would have thought.

I decided to go on the skoda website to ask some questions via live chat. First up, how long between service intervals? Not a tricky one. They didn't know 🤔. 

How can they not know such basic information? Not filling me full of confidence so far.


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## Hobbit (Feb 1, 2020)

How long do you intend to keep it LT? One of my concerns with the hybrid is battery life. If, for example, its changed at 4 years at what cost? Its thousands, and as its a 'consumable part,' like tyres or the 12v battery there's only a limited warranty to it.


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## drdel (Feb 1, 2020)

Hobbit said:



			How long do you intend to keep it LT? One of my concerns with the hybrid is battery life. If, for example, its changed at 4 years at what cost? Its thousands, and as its a 'consumable part,' like tyres or the 12v battery there's only a limited warranty to it.
		
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Some main (power) batteries are leased.

Ours has an 8 year main battery warranty to be above 80% capacity, actual design life matches that of common vehicles at 150,000 km. There has a decreasing manufacturer contribution after 5 years (I think).
Rapid charging systems shortens the battery  life - e.g Tesla is careful they have on-board data recording that monitors the number of 'fast' or 'super' charges (good idea to get dealer to check it if buying secondhand). Usually it is not the whole battery that has a fault but just one or two or the cells which can be changed. The cost of a complete main battery is falling.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 1, 2020)

Hobbit said:



			How long do you intend to keep it LT? One of my concerns with the hybrid is battery life. If, for example, its changed at 4 years at what cost? Its thousands, and as its a 'consumable part,' like tyres or the 12v battery there's only a limited warranty to it.
		
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3 years. It will be a lease car so I will have it fully under warranty during that time. After that, it is someone else's problem 😁.

I didn't know that about the 4yr change. I'll check that the battery is covered for 3yrs, haven't even thought it wouldn't be covered.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 4, 2020)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51366123#share-tools

This for me is a big game changer. In 15 years time you will not be able to buy a diesel, Petrol, or hybrid. So why buy any At the moment.  I am now of the ilk I will run the cars I have into the ground. And cross that bridge when I get to it. Hopefully electric batteries will have come on leaps and bounds by then.


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## bobmac (Feb 4, 2020)

Hobbit said:



			How long do you intend to keep it LT? One of my concerns with the hybrid is battery life. If, for example, its changed at 4 years at what cost? Its thousands, and as its a 'consumable part,' like tyres or the 12v battery there's only a limited warranty to it.
		
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'' Most manufacturers have a five to eight year warranty on their battery. However, the current prediction is that an EV battery will last from 10 – 20 years before they need to be replaced. ''

https://www.edfenergy.com/electric-cars/batteries


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 4, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51366123#share-tools

This for me is a big game changer. In 15 years time you will not be able to buy a diesel, Petrol, or hybrid. So why buy any At the moment.  I am now of the ilk I will run the cars I have into the ground. And cross that bridge when I get to it. Hopefully electric batteries will have come on leaps and bounds by then.
		
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15 yrs is a long way away. I think a lot more people will follow your approach, not change their car and run the current ones into the ground. If I was buying now I would still buy what suits and if that is diesel then that is what I would get. Don't forget, they are not banning the use of them just buying new after that date. If you bought new now would it have a resale price in 15yrs anyway?

I am fascinated by how the govt can back this up. What plan do they have to increase charging availability, how do people with on road parking, living in flats etc charge? Are they just crossing their fingers hoping the mfrs can extend the range? Are there enough rare metals to produce the batteries or there a plan b in how to make them? Equally, do we just have to accept that our lives will change? No more holidays from the NE down to Cornwall or Devon, far fewer tourists from the south up to Scotland? Our way of moving around the country is going to have to change if this is to come in. Good job the rail network is up to it .

Incidentally, I missed the press release cancelling the 3rd runway at Heathrow. Anyone seen that or does plane pollution not count?

One further point, a huge blow to the car industry, one that is already struggling. This is a very damaging release imo, a naive one.


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## Leftie (Feb 4, 2020)

Well.  We've got the Boris bikes, the Lime electric bike sharing trial.  The way to go is obviously fully electric Boris or Lime cars.  The ultimate car share scheme.  Nobody will need their own car.


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## bobmac (Feb 4, 2020)

The Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) cars have been around for over 100 years, about 90 years longer than commercially available electric vehicles (EVs)
It will take EVs a while yet until they are fully accepted by society and many will start with the hybrid.


Pure EV Range
Using the Nissan Leaf as an example
Released in 2010 range 80-100 miles
The new cars will do officially 239miles but in real life around 200 miles
So in 8 years, the range has doubled.
Governments around the world are investing heavily in battery technology so there's no reason to believe that improvement won't continue.

Charging.
Just like the olden days when there wasn't a petrol station on every corner, charging stations aren't there yet but they are popping up everywhere.
Your place of work, supermarkets, carparks, golf clubs, cinemas, restaurants, gyms, in fact anywhere you can park.

Some say ''what happens if I get to a charger and its broken or being used?''




Or ''what happens if I run out or juice''

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/rac-develops-the-uks-first-lightweight-ev-charger/ 




Obviously, there are some people who need the extra range an ICE car can provide so understandably they will stick with petrol or diesel for the meantime.

But the facts are oil and gas WILL run out, maybe not in our lifetime but soon enough so what's the alternative?
Electric or hydrogen and that's about it.

Until then, these will continue to pollute the air your children breathe.




But as the EV cost keeps dropping, range is improving and the lack of paticulates given off by EVs hits home, I believe/hope that before long I'll be driving an electric car which is clean, cheap to run, 300 mile range, fast and fun to drive.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 4, 2020)

So if we have just 15 years before all new cars must be electric only, how quickly do they realistically think they will take to build to necessary generation plants for the electric needed?
As usual we are trying to deal with a perceived immediate problem, rather than looking past that and going for the very long term solution.
The biggest screw up is including hybrid cars in the proposed new production ban. It’s absolutely barking.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 4, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			So if we have just 15 years before all new cars must be electric only, how quickly do they realistically think they will take to build to necessary generation plants for the electric needed?
As usual we are trying to deal with a perceived immediate problem, rather than looking past that and *going for the very long term solution.*
The biggest screw up is including hybrid cars in the proposed new production ban. It’s absolutely barking.
		
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Not sure we have got enough time left for very long term solutions. Plus a bit of immediacy tends to concentrate minds. Technologically I have no doubt this can be done if you get coordinated and effective assistance from policy makers who are not in thrall to the oil industry.


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## drdel (Feb 4, 2020)

I like the Lexus (and one or two others) adverts that claim they sell 'hybrid' vehicles when the *only source* of energy is petrol - it might be 'dual' powered by electric motors and an ICE but its petrol driven. Why is it not false advertising?

I think these rushed proposals will cause problems with rural communities especially when the volume of petrol/diesel sales falls and number of fuel stations drops.


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## bobmac (Feb 4, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			So if we have just 15 years before all new cars must be electric only, how quickly do they realistically think they will take to build to necessary generation plants for the electric needed?
As usual we are trying to deal with a perceived immediate problem, rather than looking past that and going for the very long term solution.
The biggest screw up is including hybrid cars in the proposed new production ban. It’s absolutely barking.
		
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Although they will stop selling new ICE cars by 2035, there will still be millions of used ICE cars available.
So there wont be a sudden switch to EVs.
This will allow more time for renewable energy to continue expanding through off shore wind farms and tidal technology.

Some say ''what happens if everyone wants to plug in at once''
They won't for the same reason not everyone goes to a petrol station at once.
Most people who can charge at home will do so during off peak times when there is very little demand on the grid.



drdel said:



			I like the Lexus (and one or two others) adverts that claim they sell 'hybrid' vehicles when the *only source* of energy is petrol - it might be 'dual' powered by electric motors and an ICE but its petrol driven. Why is it not false advertising?
		
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The regen braking puts power into the battery which then drives the car but I agree, not the best solution.

I think a lot of people will switch to hybrid plugins where you commute using battery only and occasionally use the petrol engine.
Therefor a gradual switch to full EV.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 4, 2020)

bobmac said:



			Until then, these will continue to pollute the air your children breathe.
		
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I get you’re an evangelist for the ev car, but do you not consider that using an 18 yr old bus as an example of (probably) diesel power to be slightly disingenuous to the highly efficient and eminently cleaner modern diesels of now or is it the bus you want to see gone?
We don’t use the old milk floats as examples of ev so why the bus?
I find it somewhat ironic that we are trying to reduce CO2 after demonising an engine which is much cleaner than many hybrids for that CO2 which is so harmful for the WORLD.

OP, I test drove an Ioniq Hybrid when I was getting ready to scuttle the Barge, and whilst it drove ok with a boot that was big enough for a bag of clubs and trolley, it just didn’t quite have that”want this” factor. If you wanted a tin box to get around, then it was fine...but no more than that I felt.


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## USER1999 (Feb 4, 2020)

Thing is, buses could be powered by hydrogen rather than diesel. They fill up at the same place every day, unlike cars, so it would be easy to have a supply at the depot. Where my sister lives in Germany, they already have these.


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## bobmac (Feb 4, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I get you’re an evangelist for the ev car, but do you not consider that using an 18 yr old bus as an example of (probably) diesel power to be slightly disingenuous to the highly efficient and eminently cleaner modern diesels of now or is it the bus you want to see gone?
We don’t use the old milk floats as examples of ev so why the bus?
I find it somewhat ironic that we are trying to reduce CO2 after demonising an engine which is much cleaner than many hybrids for that CO2 which is so harmful for the WORLD.
		
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I don't want to see buses gone I just want them to be clean.
I'd like to see the report that says diesel is cleaner than a hybrid


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 4, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Thing is, buses could be powered by hydrogen rather than diesel. They fill up at the same place every day, unlike cars, so it would be easy to have a supply at the depot. Where my sister lives in Germany, they already have these.
		
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I thought I had posted this on here but it must be a different forum. Hydrogen is surely a better answer than electric? The infrastructure is largely in place, no delays when refuelling is required, no major lifestyle changes necessary, no enormous financial input required to change people over.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 4, 2020)

According to Boris today all hybrid cars will be banned also from 2035.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 10, 2020)

I've pretty much given up on the plug in hybrid, they are just not right for me yet. I am currently test driving a Prius, not the right one unfortunately but that's another issue. Drives okay but the tyre noise seems high. They had the tyres pumped up to 40psi so I reduced them to 36psi, the standard recommendation for that car, and that helped a bit but it still seems a little noisy. I can't work out if I am being paranoid or whether that is the case.

Anyone on here have a Prius or has been in one? Did you notice excessive tyre noise?


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 10, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I've pretty much given up on the plug in hybrid, they are just not right for me yet. I am currently test driving a Prius, not the right one unfortunately but that's another issue. Drives okay but the tyre noise seems high. They had the tyres pumped up to 40psi so I reduced them to 36psi, the standard recommendation for that car, and that helped a bit but it still seems a little noisy. I can't work out if I am being paranoid or whether that is the case.

Anyone on here have a Prius or has been in one? Did you notice excessive tyre noise?
		
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Is the lack of engine noise just highlighting the tyre noise.?


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## Sats (Mar 10, 2020)

lobthewedge said:



			Just starting the process of renewing a dozen cars in our business, so i feel your pain.  BIK rates are killing off company car schemes, while the added costs of going electric/hybrid to a company cannot be ignored.  Its a delicate balance.

I have gone for a BMW 330e, but we got a great discount on the lease and my daily commute lends itself perfectly to the 30(ish) mile electric range.  The boot is pretty small, but luckily it passed the golf bag test, partly due to me having a cut down driver.

We are also looking at the Skoda hybrids due for release, and I have literally just come out of the Peugeot garage having had a look at the new 3008 plug in hybrid.  Just awaiting lease prices, with a view to spreading them over 48 months instead of our usual 36 in a hope to dilute the added costs.

Until a few years ago we had a car fleet of 22, but most have gone for a commercial option instead, taking advantage of the tax loophole this presents.
		
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My neighbor has a 3 series hybrid and they're really nice - did look a little cramped in the boot for clubs but I think with a bit of tetris style maneuvering it's fine.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 10, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Is the lack of engine noise just highlighting the tyre noise.?
		
Click to expand...

No, I don't think so. The car is propelled by a combination of petrol engine and battery so their is an engine working still, 1.8 petrol. Whether in a normal car the tone of the engine cancels out part of the tyre noise I'm not sure but I doubt it. Perhaps they have skimped on sound insulation on the car or may be I am being over sensitive and looking out for issues.


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## Hacker Khan (Mar 10, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I've pretty much given up on the plug in hybrid, they are just not right for me yet. I am currently test driving a Prius, not the right one unfortunately but that's another issue. Drives okay but the tyre noise seems high. They had the tyres pumped up to 40psi so I reduced them to 36psi, the standard recommendation for that car, and that helped a bit but it still seems a little noisy. I can't work out if I am being paranoid or whether that is the case.

Anyone on here have a Prius or has been in one? Did you notice excessive tyre noise?
		
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To be honest I always have music or podcasts on in the car so tyre noise is irrelevant most of the time.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 10, 2020)

Hacker Khan said:



			To be honest I always have music or podcasts on in the car so tyre noise is irrelevant most of the time.
		
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Me too but I am having to turn the volume up higher than I would have expected. It also means conversations are a little more difficult. 

I think I am talking myself out of this . I have it for another day, it will be interesting to see if I become immune to the noise and stop noticing it.


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## chrisd (Mar 10, 2020)

HID has a Leaf and the tyre noise is not something I notice as a passenger, but if pedestrians etc hear an oncoming Leaf because of tyre noise so much the better as it is pretty quiet.


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## Swinglowandslow (Mar 10, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I thought I had posted this on here but it must be a different forum. Hydrogen is surely a better answer than electric? The infrastructure is largely in place, no delays when refuelling is required, no major lifestyle changes necessary, no enormous financial input required to change people over.
		
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What you are saying is correct, not only that, but anyone with half a brain can see that it is such a good practical difference from accommodating the electric only route.
Just need hydrogen gas tanks instead of petrol/diesel tanks at fuel stations which already exist and are plentiful.
Now that word plentiful is very Important. There is no way that accommodation addresses without their own drive can safely and conveniently refuel electric cars. And that is a lotta addresses!  Millions in fact.
Which begs the question, "what do the authorities know that we don't?"
Either they know that round the corner, ( or here now) is 1,the technology which permits the batteries ,needed to drive these cars, to be removed from the cars and taken indoors to charge. ( like I can do with my buggy battery), or 2,they are taking one hell of an irresponsible gamble, or 3,they are stupid.
I cannot see anything  short of 1, which will allow electric cars to be used by nearly all the nations drivers.
The way electric is being pushed leads me to think the technology is imminent, but telling us might not be a good idea at the moment.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 10, 2020)

Swinglowandslow said:



			What you are saying is correct, not only that, but anyone with half a brain can see that it is such a good practical difference from accommodating the electric only route.
Just need hydrogen gas tanks instead of petrol/diesel tanks at fuel stations which already exist and are plentiful.
Now that word plentiful is very Important. There is no way that accommodation addresses without their own drive can safely and conveniently refuel electric cars. And that is a lotta addresses!  Millions in fact.
Which begs the question, "what do the authorities know that we don't?"
Either they know that round the corner, ( or here now) is 1,the technology which permits the batteries ,needed to drive these cars, to be removed from the cars and taken indoors to charge. ( like I can do with my buggy battery), or 2,they are taking one hell of an irresponsible gamble, or 3,they are stupid.
I cannot see anything  short of 1, which will allow electric cars to be used by nearly all the nations drivers.
The way electric is being pushed leads me to think the technology is imminent, but telling us might not be a good idea at the moment.
		
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How light would a battery be to take say a Nissan Leaf 200mls range and would a 70yr old be able to carry it in the rain / snow etc.
Where would it go?
Can only think it would have to go in the boot.
I think we are light years away from this and the date for ice cars to be abolished will be moved.
Could be back to the old days were only the rich had cars.


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## Swinglowandslow (Mar 10, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			How light would a battery be to take say a Nissan Leaf 200mls range and would a 70yr old be able to carry it in the rain / snow etc.
Where would it go?
Can only think it would have to go in the boot.
I think we are light years away from this and the date for ice cars to be abolished will be moved.
Could be back to the old days were only the rich had cars.
		
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I agree it would have to be ( relatively) very light.Like my buggy battery, say.
And , as far as I am aware, it doesn't seem feasible in the foreseeable future.
But  look at mobile phones !  Remember when they first arrived.
Now, wireless charging of unbelievably small batteries. And cameras with 100 times zoom
Never underestimate technology 😀


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## Jacko_G (Mar 10, 2020)

Peugeot - having driven them for the last 3 years wouldn't touch one with a barge pole. Cheap plastic crap, bits snap and break under normal use, handling is all wrong and just a horrible drive.

Prior to that it was Ford Focus estates we had which were absolutely bombproof compared to Peugeot. They handled so much better, quality of the interior was much better also. I believe they now share the same engine. Shame Peugeot can't deliver the same drive or comfort or quality as Ford.

I've been in a couple of all electronic cars, they're "interesting" and a friend has a lovely big Lexus hybrid which is nice although not sure what range he gets out of the electric part.

We do need to look after the environment but not sure how much better off we will be by being forced down the electric car route.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 10, 2020)

Swinglowandslow said:



			I agree it would have to be ( relatively) very light.Like my buggy battery, say.
And , as far as I am aware, it doesn't seem feasible in the foreseeable future.
But  look at mobile phones !  Remember when they first arrived.
Now, wireless charging of unbelievably small batteries. And cameras with 100 times zoom
Never underestimate technology 😀
		
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A phone and a 1 ton car are worlds apart.
It’s just keeping the climate change lobby appeased.
Look at a trolley battery that will do 36 holes I just can’t see a battery small enough to carry into the house anytime soon .
There is a limit to tech.
A nuclear cell that plugs into the dash more likely.


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## lobthewedge (Mar 10, 2020)

Sats said:



			My neighbor has a 3 series hybrid and they're really nice - did look a little cramped in the boot for clubs but I think with a bit of tetris style maneuvering it's fine.
		
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Not the biggest boot in the world but it did pass the golf bag test when I had the demo.
Mind you it does help being a shortarse with a cut down driver!


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## bobmac (Mar 11, 2020)

Swinglowandslow said:



			There is no way that accommodation addresses without their own drive can safely and conveniently refuel electric cars. And that is a lotta addresses!  Millions in fact.
		
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So having charging points at supermarkets, pubs, restaurants, motorway services, workplace, gym, golf club, car parks etc etc isn't safe and convenient?


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 11, 2020)

bobmac said:



			So having charging points at supermarkets, pubs, restaurants, motorway services, workplace, gym, golf club, car parks etc etc isn't safe and convenient?
		
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It will be eventually.
But imo it’s going to be private company’s that do this .
I can’t see the government doing it nation wide.
They have spent all their cash on a railway.
So it’s catch 22 no charging points people won’t buy EV.
No EVs company’s won’t sanction charging points.
Having dates for carbon neutral won’t work.
They don’t work in any other field so can’t see it working here.


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## bobmac (Mar 11, 2020)

EV charging points are being installed at the rate of around 500 per month.
There are currently over 31,000 charging points in the UK so at the current rate, by 2030 that will bring the total up to around 91,000.

HID goes to Tescos* shopping.
Plugs in at the car park.
Does the shopping while the car gets charged FREE.
Finishes shopping, unplugs, drives home.
I'd call that safe and convenient.

*Other supermarkets are available 

https://pod-point.com/rollout/tesco-ev-charging


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## bobmac (Mar 11, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			It will be eventually.
But imo it’s going to be private company’s that do this .
I can’t see the government doing it nation wide.
They have spent all their cash on a railway.
So it’s catch 22 no charging points people won’t buy EV.
No EVs company’s won’t sanction charging points.
Having dates for carbon neutral won’t work.
They don’t work in any other field so can’t see it working here.
		
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£400m investment in electric car infrastructure

https://uk.motor1.com/news/370388/government-invests-400-million-in-electric-car-infrastructure/


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 11, 2020)

bobmac said:



			£400m investment in electric car infrastructure

https://uk.motor1.com/news/370388/government-invests-400-million-in-electric-car-infrastructure/

Click to expand...

Got my eye on a new ID3 from VW but it’s not out until summer.
I only drive local really with the odd long trip so am pulling the trigger I think.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 11, 2020)

bobmac said:



			£400m investment in electric car infrastructure

https://uk.motor1.com/news/370388/government-invests-400-million-in-electric-car-infrastructure/

Click to expand...

This is the reason we are behind with EVs imo.
£400 mil on chargers but £106 Billion on one train line.
Just a open Question.
How much money does the treasury get from revenue on trains compared to revenue from cars ?


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 11, 2020)

bobmac said:



			EV charging points are being installed at the rate of around 500 per month.
There are currently over 31,000 charging points in the UK so at the current rate, by 2030 that will bring the total up to around 91,000.

HID goes to Tescos* shopping.
Plugs in at the car park.
Does the shopping while the car gets charged FREE.
Finishes shopping, unplugs, drives home.
I'd call that safe and convenient.

*Other supermarkets are available

https://pod-point.com/rollout/tesco-ev-charging

View attachment 29348

Click to expand...

Just noticed the golf behind this guy is not being charged and has just parked.
That’s a common complaint in car parks.
They will need a robust parking policy to stop this.


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 11, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just noticed the golf behind this guy is not being charged and has just parked.
That’s a common complaint in car parks.
They will need a robust parking policy to stop this.
		
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I think its an older (current) plug in Golf, seeing as the whole ad an scheme is sponsered by VW


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 11, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I think its an older (current) plug in Golf, seeing as the whole ad an scheme is sponsered by VW

Click to expand...

Might be but it’s not plugged in ,the plug is still on the charger point.!
The wheels give it away ,but once you have charged it you should move to another bay.
The one he is plugging in looks like a new ID3 there not out yet?


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 11, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Might be but it’s not plugged in ,the plug is still on the charger point.!
		
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You aren't supoosed to notice that
Is that man brimming his battery, out of interest?


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## Swinglowandslow (Mar 11, 2020)

bobmac said:



			EV charging points are being installed at the rate of around 500 per month.
There are currently over 31,000 charging points in the UK so at the current rate, by 2030 that will bring the total up to around 91,000.

HID goes to Tescos* shopping.
Plugs in at the car park.
Does the shopping while the car gets charged FREE.
Finishes shopping, unplugs, drives home.
I'd call that safe and convenient.

*Other supermarkets are available

https://pod-point.com/rollout/tesco-ev-charging

View attachment 29348

Click to expand...

Bob, let me say straight off ( I may have given the wrong impression 😀), 
that I am in favour of electric cars. I also believe that they will replace IC cars almost completely  .
But I don't believe it will happen, or can happen, until battery technology improves along the lines I have suggested, or similar.
And I do believe they will miniaturise the batteries.
Charging points, as above, and in the street etc will never be in sufficient numbers to cope.
Imagine all IC cars you see now were electric. No way could/would they be charged "safely and conveniently"
Whenever I go Tescos now, I do not refuel there because their pumps are always rammed. How much longer does it take to charge an electric car as against a petrol or diesel?


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 11, 2020)

Following the last few posts I thought I'd check out a new Morrison's supermarket that is being built next to my factory. A disused piece of land, a blank canvas. A Morrison's, petrol station, coffee outlet, 3 large retail units. The builders will finish this week and hand it over to Morrison's for fitting out. There will be 370 parking spaces in the newly laid car park. 

How many charging points to deliver this brave new world? 2. Yup, 2.

Those 2 are the only 2 in that town although the council are investigating installing another 2 in a council car park. In the town where I live, capital of the county, I think we have 4 charging points. 2 definitely, 4 possibly. 

Bob rightly posted a picture of a supermarket car park abroad with lines of chargers as the possible future. If a brand new supermarket here is only installing 2, cheaper and easier now when building than after market, then how can we be serious about going full electric? People wont truly think about going electric until they see the infrastructure in place.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 11, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Following the last few posts I thought I'd check out a new Morrison's supermarket that is being built next to my factory. A disused piece of land, a blank canvas. A Morrison's, petrol station, coffee outlet, 3 large retail units. The builders will finish this week and hand it over to Morrison's for fitting out. There will be 370 parking spaces in the newly laid car park.

How many charging points to deliver this brave new world? 2. Yup, 2.

Those 2 are the only 2 in that town although the council are investigating installing another 2 in a council car park. In the town where I live, capital of the county, I think we have 4 charging points. 2 definitely, 4 possibly.

Bob rightly posted a picture of a supermarket car park abroad with lines of chargers as the possible future. If a brand new supermarket here is only installing 2, cheaper and easier now when building than after market, then how can we be serious about going full electric? People wont truly think about going electric until they see the infrastructure in place.
		
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Yes this for me .
I would like an EV .
But am not convinced by the amount of chargers.
I hope it changes but I can’t see it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 11, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes this for me .
I would like an EV .
But am not convinced by the amount of chargers.
I hope it changes but I can’t see it.
		
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It's frustrating really. The govt are pushing the consumer down a certain path but without the set up required. The words are there but the action is not. Giving a deadline for the end of fossil fuel cars is fine and easy but they don't seem to want to do the hard bit which is installing charge points and having the power generation to service them.


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## bobmac (Mar 11, 2020)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Imagine all IC cars you see now were electric. No way could/would they be charged "*safely and conveniently"*
Whenever I go Tescos now, I do not refuel there because their* pumps are always rammed.* How much longer does it take to charge an electric car as against a petrol or diesel?
		
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You arrive at Tesco at 1pm
You park and plug in. FREE
You shop for 30 mins.
You unplug and drive away at 1.30. 

If you were in an ICE  car how long would you queue at the rammed garage to BUY your petrol/diesel at £6 a gallon for extremely flammable fuel.


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## Imurg (Mar 11, 2020)

bobmac said:



			You arrive at Tesco at 1pm
You park and plug in. FREE
You shop for 30 mins.
You unplug and drive away at 1.30.

If you were in an ICE  car how long would you queue at the rammed garage to BUY your petrol/diesel at £6 a gallon for extremely flammable fuel.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not very clued up on this Bob...
How much charge would you get from 1/2 an hour's plug in time..?


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 11, 2020)

bobmac said:



			You arrive at Tesco at 1pm
You park and plug in. FREE
You shop for 30 mins.
You unplug and drive away at 1.30.

If you were in an ICE  car how long would you queue at the rammed garage to BUY your petrol/diesel at £6 a gallon for extremely flammable fuel.
		
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Shopping in Tesco is a 2 1/2 hr nightmare for me .
My missus knows everyone so we spend half the time talking.
Do they charge after the free 30 mins?


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## bobmac (Mar 11, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's frustrating really. The govt are pushing the consumer down a certain path but without the set up required. The words are there but the action is not. *Giving a deadline for the end of fossil fuel cars *is fine and easy but they don't seem to want to do the hard bit which is installing charge points and having the power generation to service them.
		
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The Government has given a deadline for the end of *selling *new ICE cars.
Buy a fossil car before the deadline and keep it as long as you want.

In 10 years time, EVs will be cheaper to buy, will have 300+ mile range and there will be 100,000 charging points.
Plus, they will be charged with clean renewable energy which won't run out, (unlike oil and gas), ZERO emmissios and fun/fast to drive.
And if you have solar panels at home.........free fuel.


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## chrisd (Mar 11, 2020)

Imurg said:



			I'm not very clued up on this Bob...
How much charge would you get from 1/2 an hour's plug in time..?
		
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Not that we've ever charged ours away from home but my understanding is that you can get 80% charge in about 40 minutes


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## bobmac (Mar 11, 2020)

Imurg said:



			I'm not very clued up on this Bob...
How much charge would you get from 1/2 an hour's plug in time..?
		
Click to expand...

It depends on which charger you use and what size battery you have.
The 7kwh FREE charger will add about 30 miles to a Nissan Leaf in 30 minutes.
That's a free gallon of petrol.
The bigger faster 50kwh charger costs money but you get more charge faster.
Still nowhere near £6 a gallon.

Then you go to B&Q and get another gallon, then you go to Starbucks and get another gallon etc.

As I've said before, if you're doind 300 miles a day regularily, maybe wait a year or 2


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## bobmac (Mar 11, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Do they charge after the free 30 mins?
		
Click to expand...

As far as I'm aware, no.
You only have to pay for the 50kwh fast chargers


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## bobmac (Mar 11, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Those 2 are the only 2 in that town although the council are investigating installing another 2 in a council car park. In the town where I live, capital of the county, I think we have 4 charging points. 2 definitely, 4 possibly.
		
Click to expand...

Assuming you're in Morpeth, a quick search on Zap Map shows........

https://www.zap-map.com/locations/morpeth-charging-points/ 

Stanley TerraceMorpeth
Northumberland
NE61 1PA1 x  43kW 63A  Type 2 Mennekes
1 x  50kW 125A  JEVS (CHAdeMO)
1 x  50kW 125A  CCS (Combo)Charge Your Car





Morpeth Station Car ParkCoopies Lane
Morpeth
Northumberland
NE61 6JN2 x  7kW 32A  Type 2 MennekesCharge Your Car





County HallFront Car Park
Morpeth
Northumberland
NE61 2EF3 x  3kW 13A  3-Square pin
5 x  7kW 32A  Type 2 Mennekes
4 x  22kW 32A Type 2 Mennekes
1 x  43kW 63A  Type 2 Mennekes
1 x  50kW 125A  JEVS (CHAdeMO)
1 x  50kW 125A  CCS (Combo)Charge Your Car





Grandstand Services A192Fairmoor
Morpeth
Northumberland
NE61 3JN2 x  50kW 125A  JEVS (CHAdeMO)
2 x  50kW 125A  CCS (Combo)InstaVolt





Northgate HospitalMorpeth
Northumberland
NE61 3BP2 x  7kW 32A  Type 2 MennekesCharge Your Car





Stannington ServicesStannington
Great North Road
Morpeth
Northumberland
NE61 6DR1 x  43kW 63A  Type 2 Mennekes
1 x  50kW 125A  JEVS (CHAdeMO)
1 x  50kW 125A  CCS (Combo)Charge Your Car





Wansbeck WorkspaceWansbeck Business Park
Ashington
Northumberland
NE63 8QZ6 x  7kW 32A  Type 2 MennekesPOLAR





Lidl BedlingtonSchalksmuhle Road
Bedlington
Northumberland
NE22 6BP1 x  43kW 63A  Type 2 Mennekes
1 x  50kW 125A  JEVS (CHAdeMO)
1 x  50kW 125A  CCS (Combo)Pod Point





Rear Front Street Car ParkWest End Front Street
Bedlington
Northumberland
NE22 5UD1 x  43kW 63A  Type 2 Mennekes
1 x  50kW 125A  JEVS (CHAdeMO)
1 x  50kW 125A  CCS (Combo)Charge Your Car





Northumberland County Council DepotWest Terrace
A1147
Choppington
Northumberland
NE62 5TR2 x  22kW 32A Type 2 MennekesCharge Your Car





Rutherford Cancer Centre North EastBedlington
Northumberland
NE22 7FD2 x  7kW 32A  Type 2 MennekesHubsta





Station Yard Car ParkKenilworth Road
Ashington
Northumberland
NE63 8AA1 x  43kW 63A  Type 2 Mennekes
1 x  50kW 125A  JEVS (CHAdeMO)
1 x  50kW 125A  CCS (Combo)Charge Your Car





Beacon Hill FarmLonghorsley
Morpeth
Northumberland
NE65 8QW1 x 7kW 32A Tesla Type 2Tesla Destination





Ashington Leisure CentreAshington
Northumberland
NE63 9JY2 x  7kW 32A  Type 2 MennekesPod Point





Wansbeck General Hospital (A&E Department)Woodhorn Lane
Ashington
Northumberland
NE63 9JJ10 x  7kW 32A  Type 2 Mennekes
1 x  43kW 63A  Type 2 Mennekes
1 x  50kW 125A  JEVS (CHAdeMO)
1 x  50kW 125A  CCS (Combo)Charge Your Car





Wansbeck General Hospital (East Wing)Woodhorn Lane
Ashington
Northumberland
NE63 9JJ2 x  7kW 32A  Type 2 MennekesCharge Your Car





Wansbeck HospitalWoodhorn Lane
Ashington
Northumberland
NE63 9JJ2 x  7kW 32A  Type 2 Mennekes
8 x  22kW 32A Type 2 MennekesHubsta





Atley WayBaker Hughes
North Nelson Industrial Park
Cramlington
Northumberland
NE23 1WW3 x  7kW 32A  Type 2 Mennekes
1 x  22kW 32A Type 2 MennekesHubsta





Ashwood Business ParkOakwood Way
Ashington
Northumberland
NE63 0XF2 x  7kW 32A  Type 2 MennekesEV Charge.Online





Northumberlandia1 Blagdon Lane
Cramlington
Northumberland
NE23 8AU1 x  43kW 63A  Type 2 Mennekes
1 x  50kW 125A  JEVS (CHAdeMO)
1 x  50kW 125A  CCS (Combo)Charge Your Car





Not counting Morrisons


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## bobmac (Mar 11, 2020)

One thing that is often overlooked in these discussions is the potential/future of the electric car.

How the range will improve, the styling will improve, there will be more models available, the infrastructure will expand, the battery technology will continue to evolve, charging times will be cut as bigger and faster chargers come online and the cost of the cars themselves will reach parity with ICE cars and eventually become cheaper. 
No more CO2 belched into the air we breathe and no more fracking required.
No more reliance on the oil producing countries.
An exciting future and the first revolution in our transport system in about 100 years.

The interesting future of the ICE car is Apple play on the new infotainment centre and reversing sensors.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 11, 2020)

bobmac said:



			Assuming you're in Morpeth, a quick search on Zap Map shows........

https://www.zap-map.com/locations/morpeth-charging-points/ 

Stanley TerraceMorpeth
Northumberland
NE61 1PA1 x  43kW 63A  Type 2 Mennekes
1 x  50kW 125A  JEVS (CHAdeMO)
1 x  50kW 125A  CCS (Combo)Charge Your Car





Morpeth Station Car ParkCoopies Lane
Morpeth
Northumberland
NE61 6JN2 x  7kW 32A  Type 2 MennekesCharge Your Car





County HallFront Car Park
Morpeth
Northumberland
NE61 2EF3 x  3kW 13A  3-Square pin
5 x  7kW 32A  Type 2 Mennekes
4 x  22kW 32A Type 2 Mennekes
1 x  43kW 63A  Type 2 Mennekes
1 x  50kW 125A  JEVS (CHAdeMO)
1 x  50kW 125A  CCS (Combo)Charge Your Car





Grandstand Services A192Fairmoor
Morpeth
Northumberland
NE61 3JN2 x  50kW 125A  JEVS (CHAdeMO)
2 x  50kW 125A  CCS (Combo)InstaVolt





Northgate HospitalMorpeth
Northumberland
NE61 3BP2 x  7kW 32A  Type 2 MennekesCharge Your Car





Stannington ServicesStannington
Great North Road
Morpeth
Northumberland
NE61 6DR1 x  43kW 63A  Type 2 Mennekes
1 x  50kW 125A  JEVS (CHAdeMO)
1 x  50kW 125A  CCS (Combo)Charge Your Car





Wansbeck WorkspaceWansbeck Business Park
Ashington
Northumberland
NE63 8QZ6 x  7kW 32A  Type 2 MennekesPOLAR





Lidl BedlingtonSchalksmuhle Road
Bedlington
Northumberland
NE22 6BP1 x  43kW 63A  Type 2 Mennekes
1 x  50kW 125A  JEVS (CHAdeMO)
1 x  50kW 125A  CCS (Combo)Pod Point





Rear Front Street Car ParkWest End Front Street
Bedlington
Northumberland
NE22 5UD1 x  43kW 63A  Type 2 Mennekes
1 x  50kW 125A  JEVS (CHAdeMO)
1 x  50kW 125A  CCS (Combo)Charge Your Car





Northumberland County Council DepotWest Terrace
A1147
Choppington
Northumberland
NE62 5TR2 x  22kW 32A Type 2 MennekesCharge Your Car





Rutherford Cancer Centre North EastBedlington
Northumberland
NE22 7FD2 x  7kW 32A  Type 2 MennekesHubsta





Station Yard Car ParkKenilworth Road
Ashington
Northumberland
NE63 8AA1 x  43kW 63A  Type 2 Mennekes
1 x  50kW 125A  JEVS (CHAdeMO)
1 x  50kW 125A  CCS (Combo)Charge Your Car





Beacon Hill FarmLonghorsley
Morpeth
Northumberland
NE65 8QW1 x 7kW 32A Tesla Type 2Tesla Destination





Ashington Leisure CentreAshington
Northumberland
NE63 9JY2 x  7kW 32A  Type 2 MennekesPod Point





Wansbeck General Hospital (A&E Department)Woodhorn Lane
Ashington
Northumberland
NE63 9JJ10 x  7kW 32A  Type 2 Mennekes
1 x  43kW 63A  Type 2 Mennekes
1 x  50kW 125A  JEVS (CHAdeMO)
1 x  50kW 125A  CCS (Combo)Charge Your Car





Wansbeck General Hospital (East Wing)Woodhorn Lane
Ashington
Northumberland
NE63 9JJ2 x  7kW 32A  Type 2 MennekesCharge Your Car





Wansbeck HospitalWoodhorn Lane
Ashington
Northumberland
NE63 9JJ2 x  7kW 32A  Type 2 Mennekes
8 x  22kW 32A Type 2 MennekesHubsta





Atley WayBaker Hughes
North Nelson Industrial Park
Cramlington
Northumberland
NE23 1WW3 x  7kW 32A  Type 2 Mennekes
1 x  22kW 32A Type 2 MennekesHubsta





Ashwood Business ParkOakwood Way
Ashington
Northumberland
NE63 0XF2 x  7kW 32A  Type 2 MennekesEV Charge.Online





Northumberlandia1 Blagdon Lane
Cramlington
Northumberland
NE23 8AU1 x  43kW 63A  Type 2 Mennekes
1 x  50kW 125A  JEVS (CHAdeMO)
1 x  50kW 125A  CCS (Combo)Charge Your Car





Not counting Morrisons  

Click to expand...

The reality of that list is 4 are in central Morpeth and of any use to most people. Most of those you quote are completely different towns that come under the morpeth postal area. You wouldn't want to be walking to any of them from morpeth, that's for sure. 

The station, hospital, county hall and garage are all on the periphery of the town. The garage is isolated and if you are charging there you really are on empty as there is nothing to occupy your time with.

The station has 2. People park there,  plug in, get the train to Newcastle, Edinburgh, York, London etc and come back that evening. Two chargers but inevitably hogged by two cars only every day.

County hall has 12 from your numbers. Best numbers but the building employs 900-1,200 per day, has a huge car park. That must be some race every morning to catch one of them.

Clearly more than I thought but that's largely because they are not in central locations and are in places most people don't go to. The town has two major car parks, inc Morrison's, and they house the 4 that are of general use. 4 is nothing in a town of this size. I admire your drive on this but the numbers above wouldn't persuade anyone to go electric, quite the opposite.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 11, 2020)

bobmac said:



			One thing that is often overlooked in these discussions is the potential/future of the electric car.

How the range will improve, the styling will improve, there will be more models available, the infrastructure will expand, the battery technology will continue to evolve, charging times will be cut as bigger and faster chargers come online and the cost of the cars themselves will reach parity with ICE cars and eventually become cheaper. 
No more CO2 belched into the air we breathe and no more fracking required.
No more reliance on the oil producing countries.
An exciting future and the first revolution in our transport system in about 100 years.

The interesting future of the ICE car is Apple play on the new infotainment centre and reversing sensors. 

Click to expand...

Have you seen this one? A proper Tesla rival

https://www.polestar.com/uk/polestar-2/


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## bobmac (Mar 12, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Have you seen this one? A proper Tesla rival

https://www.polestar.com/uk/polestar-2/

Click to expand...

Yes, that's been out for about a year.
I doubt it will get near Tesla though, they're just too far ahead.

Just out of interest, how many petrol stations are there in Morpeth, not counting Morrisons?


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## Smiffy (Mar 12, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Not that we've ever charged ours away from home but my understanding is that you can get 80% charge in about 40 minutes
		
Click to expand...

You can out of a "rapid" charger Chris. Service areas have them. Pull up, plug in, have a coffee and a burger, half an hour later you are at 80% charge (max it can put in).
Peugeot have just launched the e208 and e2008 all electrics. Range (supposedly) of 217 and 211 respectively. Both of them are great looking cars, and we are getting a lot of interest in them.
My experience with Nissan, and the LEAF, tells me that the main problem (apart from range anxiety from the prospective purchaser) is the infrastructure. We had loads of LEAF customers complaining that charging points were out of action, leaving them stranded.
But that was 3 or 4 years ago, hopefully things have improved since then.
Batteries and range will improve too.
It won't be too long before 500 range is the norm.
Then watch sales take off.


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## bobmac (Mar 12, 2020)

Smiffy said:



			You can out of a "rapid" charger Chris. Service areas have them. Pull up, plug in, have a coffee and a burger, half an hour later you are at 80% charge (max it can put in).
Peugeot have just launched the e208 and e2008 all electrics. Range (supposedly) of 217 and 211 respectively. Both of them are great looking cars, and we are getting a lot of interest in them.
My experience with Nissan, and the LEAF, tells me that the main problem (apart from range anxiety from the prospective purchaser) is the infrastructure. We had loads of LEAF customers complaining that charging points were out of action, leaving them stranded.
But that was 3 or 4 years ago, hopefully things have improved since then.
Batteries and range will improve too.
It won't be too long before 500 range is the norm.
Then watch sales take off.
		
Click to expand...

In 2015 there were about 9,500 charging points
Currently, there are 31,183 charging points.
Not enough yet as LTyrion points out but it won't be long.
https://www.zap-map.com/statistics/


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## Smiffy (Mar 12, 2020)

New e208 and e2008. As I say, lovely looking cars....


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## bobmac (Mar 12, 2020)

Smiffy said:



			New e208 and e2008. As I say, lovely looking cars....
View attachment 29352
View attachment 29353

Click to expand...

Nice.
Quite similar to the MGZS
https://mg.co.uk/mg-zs-electric/?gc...MEiFm6hLvSxGFW7cWtzU7y45jzDI0xhMaAprOEALw_wcB 
I'll bet they will be well spec'd too.
It will be interesting to see the adverts on the grand prix this weekend and what cars will be advertised


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 12, 2020)

bobmac said:



			Yes, that's been out for about a year.
I doubt it will get near Tesla though, they're just too far ahead.

Just out of interest, how many petrol stations are there in Morpeth, not counting Morrisons?
		
Click to expand...

Diddy in comparison but hopefully the start of things to come for them and other mfrs.

Based on the same geographical area as I restricted the charging points to, 1 other petrol station. That just shows how well refuelling works, how well it would work for hydrogen as well. I filled up on my way home last night,not in morpeth as it happens. In and out in around 2-3 minutes. 

Behaviour is going to have to change, no problem with that. Fossil fuels are very, very convenient though and anyone without a drive is going to take an awful lot of convincing until that range level increases. Hopefully not too far away.


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## bobmac (Mar 12, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I filled up on my way home last night,not in morpeth as it happens. In and out in around 2-3 minutes.
		
Click to expand...

How much did that cost?
If you had nipped into Lidl in Bedlington, you could have filled up an EV while you did a bit of shopping and you wouldn't have wasted 2-3 minutes and all that money, standing in the freezing cold holding a cold petrol pump.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 12, 2020)

bobmac said:



			How much did that cost?
If you had nipped into Lidl in Bedlington, you could have filled up an EV while you did a bit of shopping and you wouldn't have wasted 2-3 minutes and all that money, standing in the freezing cold holding a cold petrol pump.  

Click to expand...

Nipping to Bedlington would have added around an extra 25-30 minutes on my commute, to take me to a shop I didn't need to go to and would then have to spend another 30 minutes in waiting for the car to charge, assuming no one else was on the charger at that moment. Instead, I pulled off the road I was driving along, spent 2 minutes holding a petrol pump and got home an hour earlier than if I wanted to charge in Bedlington. You need to look at a map of Northumberland if you are going to play this game . It would be less out of my way to go to Ashington but there is no way I want to spend 30 minutes in Ashington . Grim doesn't cover it if you are killing time there.

As it happens, I have a drive so could get a charger installed at home. I do see in Morpeth a significant number of houses and flats that have no drives and would be entirely reliant on charging on street, not possible at all at the moment, or at one of these rare charging points. I know it seems as though I am being a little awkward but what I am trying to do is show how completely inadequate the set up is right now for many ordinary people. The govt are putting the cart before the horse and until we start seeing major additions in chargers, not just 2 in a car park of 370 spaces, then progress will be limited.


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## bobmac (Mar 12, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Nipping to Bedlington would have added around an extra 25-30 minutes on my commute, to take me to a shop I didn't need to go to and would then have to spend another 30 minutes in waiting for the car to charge, assuming no one else was on the charger at that moment. Instead, I pulled off the road I was driving along, spent 2 minutes holding a petrol pump and got home an hour earlier than if I wanted to charge in Bedlington. You need to look at a map of Northumberland if you are going to play this game . It would be less out of my way to go to Ashington but there is no way I want to spend 30 minutes in Ashington . Grim doesn't cover it if you are killing time there.

As it happens, I have a drive so could get a charger installed at home. I do see in Morpeth a significant number of houses and flats that have no drives and would be entirely reliant on charging on street, not possible at all at the moment, or at one of these rare charging points. I know it seems as though I am being a little awkward but what I am trying to do is show how completely inadequate the set up is right now for many ordinary people. The govt are putting the cart before the horse and until we start seeing major additions in chargers, not just 2 in a car park of 370 spaces, then progress will be limited.
		
Click to expand...

Apologies, I don't know your commute route, I only know Bedlington is 4 miles from Morpeth, and if your going shopping anyway why not fill up while you're there.
All irrelevant of course as you have a drive at your house.
Did you know you can get a £500 grant towards having a charger installed at your home? and if you charge overnight at half price tariff, 
thats about £2 for 100 miles or 300mpg


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 12, 2020)

bobmac said:



			Apologies, I don't know your commute route, I only know Bedlington is 4 miles from Morpeth, and if your going shopping anyway why not fill up while you're there.
All irrelevant of course as you have a drive at your house.
Did you know you can get a £500 grant towards having a charger installed at your home? and if you charge overnight at half price tariff,
thats about £2 for 100 miles or 300mpg
		
Click to expand...

No need to apologise, all good fun and I do get your point. We need to change mindest, that is a big part of the transition to electric. I do too many long journeys at the moment to warrant an electric car but once the range starts to extend I am up for it. If I could afford a Tesla, no finding one of your 4 yr old models with 100k on the clock , then that would do the job but it is not financially viable right now. We just need the other mfrs to produce family cars, with a Tesla range at an equivalent price to fossil fuel cars. Not going to happen right now but hopefully will do soon.


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## bobmac (Mar 12, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If I could afford a Tesla, no finding one of your 4 yr old models with 100k on the clock , then that would do the job but it is not financially viable right now.
		
Click to expand...

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...a-batteries-lose-just-1-performance-year.html


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## Leftie (Mar 12, 2020)

As far as I can see at the moment, the way forward may well be "wireless charging" - top up the car's batteries while driving over chargers under the road surface.  The technology is already there.

I can see the trolley bus coming back as well - particularly in heavily polluted towns and cities.


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 12, 2020)

Didn’t the budget yesterday state the aim was for everyone to be within 30 miles of a charging point?
If that is the case, that’s not very practical.


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## bobmac (Mar 12, 2020)

bobmac said:



			It will be interesting to see the adverts on the grand prix this weekend and what cars will be advertised
		
Click to expand...

What Grand Prix


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## Robster59 (Oct 5, 2020)

I thought I'd ressurect this instead of starting a new one.  The time has come for me to change my company car and Hybrids are amongst the options.  I currently run a Skoda Superb 2.0 litre diesel and to move to the new Superb IV hybrid will save me about £2k a year on company car tax alone!  There are other hybrid options but in terms of bangs for the buck, and boot space, the Superb is a no-brainer.  Any personal mileage is mainly done locally and any long mileages done by business are covered by the company via a fuel card.  So I just pay for my own personal use.  Apparently the monthly mileage claim is a bit more complex but the company has the calcs to sort that out.  
I will be using it to pull a caravan maybe 4-5 times a year so that is when the lower fuel consumption will impact on me but otherwise, I can't see a reason not to go for it. 
Give this thread is from the start of the year, I wonder if anyone had any updates or further thoughts?
Thanks in advance.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 5, 2020)

Robster59 said:



			I thought I'd ressurect this instead of starting a new one.  The time has come for me to change my company car and Hybrids are amongst the options.  I currently run a Skoda Superb 2.0 litre diesel and to move to the new Superb IV hybrid will save me about £2k a year on company car tax alone!  There are other hybrid options but in terms of bangs for the buck, and boot space, the Superb is a no-brainer.  Any personal mileage is mainly done locally and any long mileages done by business are covered by the company via a fuel card.  So I just pay for my own personal use.  Apparently the monthly mileage claim is a bit more complex but the company has the calcs to sort that out. 
I will be using it to pull a caravan maybe 4-5 times a year so that is when the lower fuel consumption will impact on me but otherwise, I can't see a reason not to go for it.
Give this thread is from the start of the year, I wonder if anyone had any updates or further thoughts?
Thanks in advance. 

Click to expand...

I ultimately bought my lease 2.0d Superb but had I not also owned the company and so have to pay the higher leasing costs I would have been all over the Superb hybrid. It is the standout car of its type and the compromise you may have to make, if any, is negligible. As you are not personally picking up the lease cost, only benefitting from the reduced BIK it looks a slam dunker. 

I check out a Skoda forum every so often and the comments are still generally positive. Go for it


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## drdel (Oct 5, 2020)

We've run a hybrid for over 4 years. Motoring costs about a third but usage more or less the same.


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## bobmac (Oct 5, 2020)

drdel said:



			We've run a hybrid for over 4 years. Motoring costs about a third but usage more or less the same.
		
Click to expand...

Just want to repeat for those who may have missed it.....

*''Motoring costs about a third''  *


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 5, 2020)

drdel said:



			We've run a hybrid for over 4 years. Motoring costs about a third but usage more or less the same.
		
Click to expand...

Out of interest, what sort of mileage and journey types do you do?


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## Robster59 (Oct 5, 2020)

Thanks. You've basically confirmed what I thought. Looks like I'll be getting the Skoda Superb iV 1.4 TSI SE Technology.  Lots of nice toys and plenty of space.


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## bobmac (Oct 6, 2020)

Robster59 said:



			Thanks. You've basically confirmed what I thought. Looks like I'll be getting the Skoda Superb iV 1.4 TSI SE Technology.  Lots of nice toys and plenty of space.
		
Click to expand...

Are you going to upgrade the charging system?


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## Robster59 (Oct 6, 2020)

No. I have a limited upgrade budget so sticking with standard.


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## drdel (Oct 6, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Out of interest, what sort of mileage and journey types do you do?
		
Click to expand...

In the hybrid most daily would be less than 25miles, once weekly trip 40miles  and 250+ mile trips every couple of months.

Home charger.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 6, 2020)

drdel said:



			In the hybrid most daily would be less than 25miles, once weekly trip 40miles  and 250+ mile trips every couple of months.

Home charger.
		
Click to expand...

I can see why it works for you then, close to ideal .


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## patricks148 (Oct 6, 2020)

been thinking about it, but the range of any of the cars i like or for that matter afford the range is pretty poor. looks like i will just be getting a diesel again. up here its still not practical, unless you only want a runnaround


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## bobmac (Oct 6, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			been thinking about it, but the range of any of the cars i like or for that matter afford* the range is pretty poor*. looks like i will just be getting a diesel again. up here its still not practical, unless you only want a runnaround
		
Click to expand...

In a hybrid?


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## Robster59 (Oct 6, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			been thinking about it, but the range of any of the cars i like or for that matter afford the range is pretty poor. looks like i will just be getting a diesel again. up here its still not practical, unless you only want a runnaround
		
Click to expand...

These are hybrid so the distance on battery is about 40 miles but then you have the distance from the petrol engine to add to that as well.


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## hovis (Oct 6, 2020)

I have a prius plug in.  Before that I had a diesel car.  I used to spend £240 a month on fuel.   Now I spend about £30 on electric.  Since I got it in march I haven't put fuel in it.
It does help that my place of work and golf course have free charging points


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## patricks148 (Oct 6, 2020)

bobmac said:



			In a hybrid?
		
Click to expand...

yes the passate Est was 27 miles on the battery i think, i suppose its OK for short trips around town, but i would be charging it all the time, may as we just have a petrol eng if you are going to be using petrol anyway?

there's very few charging points around here, love to get a hybrid or the like but cost and logistic of charging it too much hassle


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## patricks148 (Oct 6, 2020)

Robster59 said:



			These are hybrid so the distance on battery is about 40 miles but then you have the distance from the petrol engine to add to that as well.
		
Click to expand...

sure i get that, but i'd be running it on the petrol engine all the time so what would be the point ?


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## hovis (Oct 6, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			sure i get that, but i'd be running it on the petrol engine all the time so what would be the point ?
		
Click to expand...

You probably do more trips of 40 miles and under than you think.  Not only that but even if you drive 100 miles a day the first 40 is electric.  40 miles on a average car is £5 of diesel.  It would be 70p in electric.   Surely you wouldn't turn your nose up at a saving of £4.30 a day?


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## Robster59 (Oct 6, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			sure i get that, but i'd be running it on the petrol engine all the time so what would be the point ?
		
Click to expand...

It depends how far your individual journeys are.  If you are just going local, it would be on electric nearly all the time.  If you go further then it would go to petrol and, on the correct setting, recharge the battery.  From the reviews, the car tries to run on battery whenever possible.  There are different settings as to how the car moves between battery and petrol.  
You can charge it at home even from your own 3-pin socket.  And on longer journeys you can get the car to re-charge the battery. 
For me, the big point is the massive saving I will make on Company Car tax.


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## hovis (Oct 6, 2020)

Robster59 said:



			It depends how far your individual journeys are.  If you are jut going local, it would be on electric nearly all the time.  If you go further then it would go to petrol and, on the correct setting, recharge the battery.  From the reviews, the car tries to run on battery whenever possible.  For me, the big point is the massive saving I will make on Company Car tax.
		
Click to expand...

The charge battery function whilst on petrol actually drastically decreases the petrol mpg making it pointless.  Its a feature designed to charge the battery if your empty on battery but you know you're going to be entering a green charge zone.
On the most economic setting my Car will charge the main battery when I'm at the correct revs but even on a big journey its a small amount


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## Robster59 (Oct 6, 2020)

hovis said:



			The charge battery function whilst on petrol actually drastically decreases the petrol mpg making it pointless.  Its actually a feature to charge the battery if your empty on battery but you know you're going to be entering a green charge zone
		
Click to expand...

It doesn't just use the petrol engine, it also uses brake energy recovery, but I get your point.  In Scotland at least there are lots of electric charging points in the major cities so even charging whilst I am out shouldn't be too difficult.


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## hovis (Oct 6, 2020)

Robster59 said:



			It doesn't just use the petrol engine, it also uses brake energy recovery, but I get your point.  In Scotland at least there are lots of electric charging points in the major cities so even charging whilst I am out shouldn't be too difficult.
		
Click to expand...

Like you it saves us a fortune as my wife is in the higher tax bracket and a diesel car would cost us £365 in tax alone.  Almost feels like theft when I top my battery up for free.  The tesler is arriving in November so I'll be rinsing the belfrys charging points 😂


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