# Help with casting.



## jak kez 187 (Mar 20, 2014)

Had a lesson the other day and my swing looked good apart from me casting early and hitting up on the ball with my irons, pretty much scooping the ball off the ground.

As you can imagine with that I've always struggled with distance. With a 7 iron my launch angle was just under 30 degrees and was only getting around 140 yards carry, along with very inconsistent strikes.

Now I've been given a few things to work on, and have found that I can strike the ball really nice with a good launch when I just do gentle punch shots, almost like a relaxed half swing, and I manage to get my hands more in front.

However as soon as I put a full swing on, I start casting again, and it feels like I just can't help myself to do it, even though I'm telling myself not to do it the whole time.

Has anyone had any success with getting rid of casting/early release, and if so could you give me any tips/drills/pointers. 

Cheers! :fore:


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## Doh (Mar 20, 2014)

Have a look on youtube about how to create Lag.


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## lex! (Mar 20, 2014)

This is one of my swing faults too. What corrections were you shown? The first homework that the pro gave me was to use a stronger grip, and to go away and get used to this. A weak grip can cause casting, as an open club face at the top of the swing has to be squared at impact and the only way this can be achieved is by an early release of the hands. Herman Williams has a very good YouTube vid on this symptom.

However, the underlying cause of casting (certainly in my case) is a dominant right side and, boring though it is, the best remedy is the left arm drill, to swing and hit balls with the left arm only. You only need a short swing, 9-iron on a tee'd up ball, and get used to the feel of the LHS swing. It's virtually impossible to hit from the top swinging left arm only, it creates a natural lag, and the shaft automatically drops into the correct downswing plane. You also get to strongly feel the effect of gravity on the club head weight as it drops down and through, rather than forcing it with a strong right arm.

Very best of luck.


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## Alex1975 (Mar 20, 2014)

Create an angle with your wrist set and arms and carry that angle through to impact.

However, stick with what your pro has given you. If you have hit 1 or 2000 practice shots with your "feels like" half swing it may become your full swing. What is the ball flight, dispersion and distance like with the pro corrected swing? Same distance as your old full swing?

Bottom line, teach your body what the pro has asked. One session will not teach you and if you want a proper fix you are going to have to put the time in.


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## srixon 1 (Mar 20, 2014)

Try practicing on the range by keeping your right elbow (if you are right handed) tucked in tight on your down swing. At first you might cause the ball to go right, but if you keep your arm in it is hard to release too early.


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## Foxholer (Mar 20, 2014)

Put a ball 15-18 inches behind your target ball and avoid hitting it with your downswing!

'Fixes' several faults all at once!

Thank Bobmac for it.

You will quite likely find that you don't take quite as long a back-swing and transition isn't quite so quick/snappy. And the AofA improves markedly!


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## jak kez 187 (Mar 20, 2014)

Cheers for all the replies.

Will keep with the shorter relaxed swing for now at the range. Don't feel like going on the course anytime soon though as It could get embarrassing haha. 

I do have a bit of a long swing anyway, and have found when I make a shorter more compact back swing, I do strike the ball a lot better. I also have a slight lateral hip sway on the way back (ever so slightly) and my head does lift up slightly towards the top of my backswing which may also have an effect on the striking of the ball.

Was very tempted to get a swingyde as I have used one before and made some nice contact with the ball, but would rather give other things a go first than paying 20 quid.


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## the_coach (Mar 20, 2014)

jak kez 187 said:



			Had a lesson the other day and my swing looked good apart from me casting early and hitting up on the ball with my irons, pretty much scooping the ball off the ground.

As you can imagine with that I've always struggled with distance. With a 7 iron my launch angle was just under 30 degrees and was only getting around 140 yards carry, along with very inconsistent strikes.

Now I've been given a few things to work on, and have found that I can strike the ball really nice with a good launch when I just do gentle punch shots, almost like a relaxed half swing, and I manage to get my hands more in front.

However as soon as I put a full swing on, I start casting again, and it feels like I just can't help myself to do it, even though I'm telling myself not to do it the whole time.

Has anyone had any success with getting rid of casting/early release, and if so could you give me any tips/drills/pointers. 

Cheers! :fore:
		
Click to expand...

Usually caused by not making the 90 degree angle between left arm & shaft in the backswing when the left arm is at 1st parallel position (parallel to both the ground, your ball/target line & your toe line). Can be caused by grip being either too weak, too strong & also either of these and the handle being held too much in the palms so the angle between arm & shaft is never really made properly going back.

Another causation is a too violent transition from the top thats being governed by the the arms & upper body, so the club head & shaft then naturally seek an 'in-line' (straight) position with the left arm more or less straight away from the top of the downswing & the 90d angle formed going back is lost almost immediately you've started the move back, the 'cast' you speak of.

This is then further compounded by the weight moving the wrong way & getting stuck on the right side coming down, your brain then senses if it doesn't do something quickly you'll dump the club head in the ground way back of the ball.

So the brain compensates by doing couple of things, it forces you to rise up out of posture by losing the pelvic angle to get what's called 'early extension' when predominantly the right up moves out towards the ball/target line giving you more height so you can avoid hitting the ground a foot or so behind the ball, but then realizing the club head is now still too far behind the ball it makes your hands throw/flip left wrist collapse whatever you want to call it in order to get the club on ball, this increases the dynamic loft.
Understanding why this happen, the cure is pretty simple just takes a bit of hard work.

Get a good grip, a good neutral grip, handle more in fingers of both hands, both 'V's pointing towards the right shoulder.

Take the club and arms back smoothly in one piece governed by your shoulders, important your don't sway hips away from target focus on weight staying on inside of right foot, right knee retains flex as you _'turn_' back, once hands pass right leg the left wrist will start to set (this is a feeling of the left thumb moving upwards to point at sky) and you'll have 90d at 1st parallel, continue shoulder turn to the top, when shoulders stop so too should the arms and club. 

Extremely important you don't seek extra backswing length by either independent lifting of the arms & club, or allowing both elbows to collapse as this ruins the connection between arms, club & body pivot, which ruins your sync, timing starting down meaning it gets snatched back from the top (as described above) and you get the dreaded 'cast'.

Get to the top in 'sync' almost feel a pause, start your downswing from the left foot/leg up this will tug you right shoulder arms & club _downwards _in the right sequence & you'll be able to then just turn & swing through impact weight on your left side before & through strike.

Best drill is just an 8i ball on tee literally just off the ground, make the swing back to 1st parallel with shaft at 90d, gently press weight into your left foot as the start of the downswing & 'swing' through (don't hit at) ball at 60/70% effort until your right arm is parallel ground in the throughswing & the shaft is again at 90d, the reverse 'L' drill. 

Best drill for feeling the lower body starting the transition so the your weight moves in the right direction, same direction the club is traveling, you'll also feel the  'setting the angle' going back better & having it 'release naturally' through impact then re-setting back to 90d in the throughswing. 

Get used to that feeling so you can repeat that drill successfully. 
Then still at 70% continuing the same feeling just lengthen the swing by continuing your shoulder turn going back to a 3/4 swing position at the top retaining the 90d angle. 
Importantly remembering your arms & club stop going back when your shoulder/body turn stops and go through working on retaining the same feeling you did with the shorter drill swing.
That's the feeling you'll want on every swing regardless of the club.


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## Alex1975 (Mar 20, 2014)

jak kez 187 said:



			Cheers for all the replies.

Will keep with the shorter relaxed swing for now at the range. Don't feel like going on the course anytime soon though as It could get embarrassing haha. 

I do have a bit of a long swing anyway, and have found when I make a shorter more compact back swing, I do strike the ball a lot better. I also have a slight lateral hip sway on the way back (ever so slightly) and my head does lift up slightly towards the top of my backswing which may also have an effect on the striking of the ball.

Was very tempted to get a swingyde as I have used one before and made some nice contact with the ball, but would rather give other things a go first than paying 20 quid.
		
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Hey, just pick one of those faults and work on it, not all of them at once...


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## jak kez 187 (Mar 20, 2014)

cheers the_coach, good read and will try it definitely.

It is interesting a few people have mentioned grip. I have a very strong grip which was picked up on, but I was told to leave it for now and just keep practising the drill I was given.

Might start just picking up a club whenever I can in the correct grip to try and get used to a more neutral grip.

Have tried it today and it does feel very strange, almost like I have little control over the club, my strong grip feels a lot more powerful so to speak.


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## G1BB0 (Mar 20, 2014)

I was/am a flipper so scooping at impact causing high ball flight and bad fats/thins. We worked on setting the impact position at address and working on a reduced swing and mainting the angle at impact. Its really all about repetition until it really beds in. I find if I dont practice and go straight to a full swing the flipping can come back at any time as it was so ingrained previously.

I have also had a lesson yesterday and we are working on takeway & transition into the downswing. I tend to have to quick a takeaway/backswing which then leads to a hurried downswing and causes me to flip and/or keep my weight on the rght side. I also went to a baseball grip which feels much easier to control.

Its working for me and consistency has vastly improved and shot shape is wayyyyy better.

Good luck and keep plugging away :thup:


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## the_coach (Mar 20, 2014)

jak kez 187 said:



			Might start just picking up a club whenever I can in the correct grip to try and get used to a more neutral grip.

Have tried it today and it does feel very strange, almost like I have little control over the club, my strong grip feels a lot more powerful so to speak.
		
Click to expand...

Yeh thats one of the problems with an over strong grip it gives a sense of power, but it's really a false sense. 

Picking up a club as often as you can just to from the correct grip and feel the weight of the club in your hands as often as you can is a good way to get familiar with it, you just have to discipline yourself to be precise & make sure the new grip is right. Naturally what you've been used to doing feels comfortable, but comfortable often is just familiarity while not being correct.


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## jak kez 187 (Mar 20, 2014)

the_coach said:



			Yeh thats one of the problems with an over strong grip it gives a sense of power, but it's really a false sense. 

Picking up a club as often as you can just to from the correct grip and feel the weight of the club in your hands as often as you can is a good way to get familiar with it, you just have to discipline yourself to be precise & make sure the new grip is right. Naturally what you've been used to doing feels comfortable, but comfortable often is just familiarity while not being correct.
		
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Don't suppose you have any videos/guides that you use for grip do you?


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## the_coach (Mar 20, 2014)

jak kez 187 said:



			Don't suppose you have any videos/guides that you use for grip do you?
		
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Left hand grip:      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMLpg38gEJE

Right hand grip:    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kG19zHrdiY&list=UUbY9OC4bMmAmqlcWhmQE3dQ


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## stevelev (Mar 20, 2014)

140 carry with a 7iron is not that short.
The average is similar to that, worry about line and dispersion more


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## jak kez 187 (Mar 20, 2014)

stevelev said:



			140 carry with a 7iron is not that short.
The average is similar to that, worry about line and dispersion more
		
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Yeh I know it's not exactly that short but I'm so inconsistent with ball strikes so I need to do something about it.
An increase in distance is just an added bonus for me.
I have a straight shot which I'm happy with, just need a good strike to go with it now.


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## bozza (Mar 21, 2014)

jak kez 187 said:



			cheers the_coach, good read and will try it definitely.

It is interesting a few people have mentioned grip. I have a very strong grip which was picked up on, but I was told to leave it for now and just keep practising the drill I was given.

Might start just picking up a club whenever I can in the correct grip to try and get used to a more neutral grip.

Have tried it today and it does feel very strange, almost like I have little control over the club, my strong grip feels a lot more powerful so to speak.
		
Click to expand...

For me the grip/posture are the basic fundamentals and if you had a really strong grip it seems strange your pro has said just to leave it for now and to work on other drills. 

The pros I've seen have always first looked at my grip/posture before working on anything else as this can fix a lot of common faults. 

This is just my opinion but I'd be working on getting your grip more neutral before working on anything else.


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## dontfancythisputt (Mar 21, 2014)

Going through a very similar issue with the scooping and flipping myself at the moment. I have again found that the basics of the fault lie with a loss of tempo and rhythm so getting that back is my first task.

Once I have the rhythm sorted I can immediately see some improvement with the shot height and distance purely from the cleaner strike.

When I start finding consistency with the tempo and getting to a nice balanced finish on full shot I then start to think about the scooping/increasing lag.

My swing thought that is helping at the moment is to only allow the wrists to hinge in one plane, may be difficult to describe on here but I try to stop my wrists hinging in a left to right direction (scooping action) with the only movement in a up down direction (thumbs up/thumbs down) throughout the swing. 

Works for me but the grip and tempo may be the main faults so Iâ€™d sort those out first. Saying that you canâ€™t be miles of if you are hitting it 140yds and fairly straight!.


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## USER1999 (Mar 21, 2014)

I find it's an issue of keeping my hands moving. The moment I get too hooked up on hitting the ball, they stop moving early, before they are level or in front of the ball. Then the club unhinges because the hands have stopped.

It comes back to the video from a few days ago, swing the grip, not the club head.


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