# Is your club Charging Fees for the time the course will be closed?



## PNWokingham (Mar 25, 2020)

With subs now due in a lot of cases, i guess this is a burning question? 

All the local gyms/ health clubs i have heard about have said they will not charge but not sure on many golf clubs?


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## IanM (Mar 25, 2020)

Our payable from Jan 1st.... so folk will have paid.  Whether anything refunded, I very much doubt it as it is a member owned ciub.

Wife is at Marriott St Pierre... they have suspended monthly DDs from now


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## Imurg (Mar 25, 2020)

Had an email not long ago from the Finance Board Member.
Mainly outlining how we stand, what we hope to get from Boris and...please pay your subs!
If everything goes reasonably then well be ok and there may be scope for a rebate this time next year
The trouble with all this is that theres no  way of knowing how long this is going to last so everything is pure speculation


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## patricks148 (Mar 25, 2020)

Paid for Nairn in December, as thats due 1st jan, but the kings is 1st April, not paid that yet as they want a bank transfer, not got round to doing that yet, usually just pay by debit card


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## need_my_wedge (Mar 25, 2020)

Our payments are still in action, in the same way we would continue to pay subs if the course was closed due to inclement weather. However, we have been told that if the course remains closed passed the 1st May, we'll get a credit against next years subs. The length of the credit will be dependent upon the length of closure, and we will be advised as the situation changes .


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## DRW (Mar 25, 2020)

Not heard from any of the clubs I belong to, but early days to be fair to the clubs. So don't know if there will be extensions, free periods, maybe things like free guest fees afterwards to offset paying. Last of the clubs I paid last week for the coming year.

So voted Not decided, as don't know the answer.

I kind of would be disappointed if nothing was done, would even be happy with say 4-6 guest fees free, a gesture ,if they are closed for a long period or like. 

But will wait and see, for me the money has been spent and gone out of the bank.


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## Fish (Mar 25, 2020)

Mines August 1st, many members haven't played for months at times due to the wet weather and now could be even more months in this situation.  I was lucky to play a lot at Woodhall which I renewed in January for a year.

Will be interesting to see if our subs change due to the lack of revenue over a very wet winter and now this virus outbreak!


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## GB72 (Mar 25, 2020)

My club are, as far as I am aware, still charging the full amount and want paying or signing up for the year by 10th April No mention of any credits or rebates. I say as far as I am aware as I appear to have been taken off the mailing list when I advised that I was not renewing a few weeks ago despite being a member until the end of April. 

This is going to be an issue for no end of people. They are going to be paying for something that they cannot use for an unspecified period and to commit for a year at a time when their own income may be uncertain. I think that the clubs who are looking to proceed as normal with subs may be taking a narrow view on this and missing a bigger picture. Whether they can afford to look at the bigger picture is another issue. 

One of my concerns would have been the cost next year. As a private members club, the committee wanted an 8.5% increase this year to take into account increased salary costs, maintenance costs and the losses over the wet period. I can see that being a 20-25% increase next year to make up for the lost income from all revenue streams over the lockdown period. That would take golf out of the price bracket that many would be willing to pay. 

I know that people shoot down the analogy but I do not see too much difference between my golf club and my gym. Both have rent, rates, wages, utilities, staff, suppliers etc to pay but the gym has stopped all direct debits whilst the club still wants paying. The gym are helping in the community, the PTs are on Instagram every day for no cost giving members at home fitness sessions etc. The golf club have not done anything. How hard, for example, would it be for the pro to work out some home drills for everyone to put on social media. 

I am different as I have only ever seen a golf club as somewhere to play golf and appreciate my views differ from most on here.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 25, 2020)

Yes - but we'll get 50% off pro-rata cost of lost months back by that being taken off two subsequently years subs.  The other 50% stays with the club - and is ours in any case (being a members club).  Basic subs for next year might have to go up - hopefully not by more than normal small % increase - but that'll be offset by money back from this year.


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## Springveldt (Mar 25, 2020)

Yep, mine is still expecting full fees with no mention of rebates, pro-rata, discount next year or even a goodwill few quid on your bar card.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 25, 2020)

If people don't pay then the club may not be there after this is over. If it snowed would you expect a rebate? If it flooded would you expect one?

I think gestures such as invite a guest for free, 3-4 vouchers, would be a nice touch if they are closed for too long but to take revenue away could cripple a club when it is already losing revenue from bar sales, green fees etc.


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## jim8flog (Mar 25, 2020)

If a member has paid their fees by the due date, 31st March, for any period that we are closed they will get a pro-rata credit against next years fees.


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## GB72 (Mar 25, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If people don't pay then the club may not be there after this is over. If it snowed would you expect a rebate? If it flooded would you expect one?

I think gestures such as invite a guest for free, 3-4 vouchers, would be a nice touch if they are closed for too long but to take revenue away could cripple a club when it is already losing revenue from bar sales, green fees etc.
		
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Then surely a future gesture would be an alternative. A rebate or reduction down the line once the finances are in order for those who supported the club during this period. 

I know that I sound mercenary about the whole thing and that, as I have explained, is because I do not have an emotional attachment to the club I am at. Sports facilities like gyms have taken the approach that to forgo subscriptions for a few months is worth it to encourage people to still be members at the end of all this. Golf clubs, well mine at least, have taken the approach of 'we need the money and so you have to commit hundreds of pounds now to pay for a service that you cannot use at a time when your future income is uncertain and, you know what, if not enough of you pay now, we may have to charge you all even more next year to make up for it'. Wonder how may clubs tucked away that big tax rebate from a few years ago to cover eventualities such as this.


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## fundy (Mar 25, 2020)

GB72 said:



			My club are, as far as I am aware, still charging the full amount and want paying or signing up for the year by 10th April No mention of any credits or rebates. I say as far as I am aware as I appear to have been taken off the mailing list when I advised that I was not renewing a few weeks ago despite being a member until the end of April. 

This is going to be an issue for no end of people. They are going to be paying for something that they cannot use for an unspecified period and to commit for a year at a time when their own income may be uncertain. I think that the clubs who are looking to proceed as normal with subs may be taking a narrow view on this and missing a bigger picture. Whether they can afford to look at the bigger picture is another issue. 

One of my concerns would have been the cost next year. As a private members club, the committee wanted an 8.5% increase this year to take into account increased salary costs, maintenance costs and the losses over the wet period. I can see that being a 20-25% increase next year to make up for the lost income from all revenue streams over the lockdown period. That would take golf out of the price bracket that many would be willing to pay. 

I know that people shoot down the analogy but I do not see too much difference between my golf club and my gym. Both have rent, rates, wages, utilities, staff, suppliers etc to pay but the gym has stopped all direct debits whilst the club still wants paying. The gym are helping in the community, the PTs are on Instagram every day for no cost giving members at home fitness sessions etc. The golf club have not done anything. How hard, for example, would it be for the pro to work out some home drills for everyone to put on social media. 

I am different as I have only ever seen a golf club as somewhere to play golf and appreciate my views differ from most on here.
		
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The big difference between the gym and the golf course is about 200 acres. The gym can pretty much turn everything off and be incurring very little marginal costs, a day after the all clear they will be able to open back up and be close to full speed almost immediately. The golf course will either need to be maintained during or will be in a state that it cant open immediately and will require a great deal of work before it can

The other difference is between members clubs and proprietary, the proprietary I would be far more likely to treat as I would the gym, the members club however I can see how it would need to be viewed differently to some degree


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## GB72 (Mar 25, 2020)

fundy said:



			The big difference between the gym and the golf course is about 200 acres. The gym can pretty much turn everything off and be incurring very little marginal costs, a day after the all clear they will be able to open back up and be close to full speed almost immediately. The golf course will either need to be maintained during or will be in a state that it cant open immediately and will require a great deal of work before it can

The other difference is between members clubs and proprietary, the proprietary I would be far more likely to treat as I would the gym, the members club however I can see how it would need to be viewed differently to some degree
		
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A golf club, however, has a substantially larger membership, wider revenue streams, higher annual fees etc. As I said, much of my opinion is my lack of sentimental or emotional attachment to my club and that does impact on my current feeling.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 25, 2020)

I’m a nomad but if I was a fee paying member I wouldn’t be expecting a refund or discount on my subs. I’m of the opinion that you pay to support and commit to the club. Those people who expect a refund/discount would be the 1st ones to moan the greens are a bit long or the fairway hasn’t been cut. Members Clubs are more than just a course.

This is an unprecedented issue, at some point you’ve just got to take a loss on the chin.


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## Old Skier (Mar 25, 2020)

Ours is a small owners club. We have just received emails saying that they are willing to refund money on the months when the course is closed. This would most probably finish the club. Fortunately most have responded saying that they don't want refunds.


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## Springveldt (Mar 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I’m a nomad but if I was a fee paying member I wouldn’t be expecting a refund or discount on my subs. I’m of the opinion that you pay to support and commit to the club. Those people who expect a refund/discount would be the 1st ones to moan the greens are a bit long or the fairway hasn’t been cut. Members Clubs are more than just a course.

This is an unprecedented issue, at some point you’ve just got to take a loss on the chin.
		
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Member clubs may be more than a course for some but not for me really. I've been a member for 4 years but I'm not originally from this area so I don't hold a great deal of loyalty to the club, it's not like I've been a member for over 20 years like some of the lads I play with. I managed 17 qualifiers last year and I've managed maybe 5 rounds since October, so 22 rounds in total. I live 10 miles from the club so I never attend the social stuff and going by the emails, neither does anyone else. Now the course is going to be closed again for an indefinite amount of time yet they are expecting me to cough up £800 and even said "for those that are thinking of resigning then rejoining later we will still charge you the full fee".

It's not like I'm stuck for golf in this area, I've got another 5 courses that are closer to me than my club right now (all 5 within 5 miles of my door step), I'm seriously considering being a nomad next season when the courses finally open as a handicap isn't the be all and end all of golf. I wouldn't have a problem with booking a Sunday morning time for myself at other courses in the area and going out and playing on my own.

Guess I have a bit of thinking to do over the next few days.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 25, 2020)

GB72 said:



			Then surely a future gesture would be an alternative. A rebate or reduction down the line once the finances are in order for those who supported the club during this period.

I know that I sound mercenary about the whole thing and that, as I have explained, is because I do not have an emotional attachment to the club I am at. Sports facilities like gyms have taken the approach that to forgo subscriptions for a few months is worth it to encourage people to still be members at the end of all this. Golf clubs, well mine at least, have taken the approach of 'we need the money and so you have to commit hundreds of pounds now to pay for a service that you cannot use at a time when your future income is uncertain and, you know what, if not enough of you pay now, we may have to charge you all even more next year to make up for it'. Wonder how may clubs tucked away that big tax rebate from a few years ago to cover eventualities such as this.
		
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Mine is a proprietary club and I have no attachment to it. I would have no issue leaving and like you, I use it to play golf, have a drink after and that is it. It is not my social life.

I agree with the post from fundy, the costs of a golf club can not be put on hold to the same degree as a gym. I also don't think most clubs are flush enough to offer a reduction or rebate, I am certain mine is not. They may not survive this as it stands if they stay closed until May for example.


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## Siolag (Mar 25, 2020)

I won't be expecting anything as a benefit for paying for the next few months, but, I am in the position where my income has been unaffected, and actually, I am spending comparatively less, as I'm not travelling to work. Not everyone will be in that position.


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## Cue_147 (Mar 25, 2020)

GB72 said:



			Then surely a future gesture would be an alternative. A rebate or reduction down the line once the finances are in order for those who supported the club during this period.

I know that I sound mercenary about the whole thing and that, as I have explained, is because I do not have an emotional attachment to the club I am at. Sports facilities like gyms have taken the approach that to forgo subscriptions for a few months is worth it to encourage people to still be members at the end of all this. Golf clubs, well mine at least, have taken the approach of 'we need the money and so you have to commit hundreds of pounds now to pay for a service that you cannot use at a time when your future income is uncertain and, you know what, if not enough of you pay now, we may have to charge you all even more next year to make up for it'. Wonder how may clubs tucked away that big tax rebate from a few years ago to cover eventualities such as this.
		
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My club has asked people to keep paying membership with no mention of a refund for time lost and won't commit to anything in writing.

This is a privately owned club with a multi-millionaire owner. I'll be keeping my money... in my pocket, thank you.


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## GB72 (Mar 25, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Mine is a proprietary club and I have no attachment to it. I would have no issue leaving and like you, I use it to play golf, have a drink after and that is it. It is not my social life.

I agree with the post from fundy, the costs of a golf club can not be put on hold to the same degree as a gym. I also don't think most clubs are flush enough to offer a reduction or rebate, I am certain mine is not. They may not survive this as it stands if they stay closed until May for example.
		
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I fully agree. From my point of view, I have seen costs go up 25% over the last 5 years and a further 5% next year, the club has had a big tax rebate, the club makes money from societies and from pay and play golfers in the week etc. On that basis, I would expect the club to have the finances to weather a storm. As I found out at the SGM, it does not. On that basis, I am currently of the opinion that the expenditure has not been as well managed as it could be and I left the last meeting of the opinion that the members were seen as a bottomless wallet whose cash can be extracted to make up for the sins of what is always previous committees. Sadly not willing to sing to that tune any more. More interested in value and a quality product than giving my all for the preservation of the club.


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## Fish (Mar 25, 2020)

The view of many members at my club when the weather closed the club for so long, was, it’s an annual fee, not a monthly one, it gets wrongly pigeon holed as monthly solely because of payment schemes, as such if anyone gets anything back I think you’ve done well, but I won’t expect anything back in any format from any of my memberships, if I do, I’ll donate if to a charity as all I’ve actual lost is the ability to play golf, I’ve lost nothing financially as it was paid and allocated anyway.


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## Springveldt (Mar 25, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Mine is a proprietary club and I have no attachment to it. I would have no issue leaving and like you, I use it to play golf, have a drink after and that is it. It is not my social life.

I agree with the post from fundy, the costs of a golf club can not be put on hold to the same degree as a gym. I also don't think most clubs are flush enough to offer a reduction or rebate, I am certain mine is not. They may not survive this as it stands if they stay closed until May for example.
		
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When you think about it, a club may have zero outgoings really through the shutdown as the staff are going to be entitled to 80% of their wage from the government. The club don't have to pay the other 20% if they can't afford it, although that does suck for the staff. The VAT and business rates have also been put back and I think the government was also dishing out grants of some sorts. Maybe I'm being a bit naive here, wouldn't be the first time.


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## fundy (Mar 25, 2020)

GB72 said:



			I fully agree. From my point of view, I have seen costs go up 25% over the last 5 years and a further 5% next year, the club has had a big tax rebate, the club makes money from societies and from pay and play golfers in the week etc. On that basis, I would expect the club to have the finances to weather a storm. As I found out at the SGM, it does not. On that basis, I am currently of the opinion that the expenditure has not been as well managed as it could be and I left the last meeting of the opinion that the members were seen as a bottomless wallet whose cash can be extracted to make up for the sins of what is always previous committees. Sadly not willing to sing to that tune any more. More interested in value and a quality product than giving my all for the preservation of the club.
		
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there used to be a lot of clubs that operated on that basis, i expect financial pressure has meant a lot have improved but plenty are run on a pretty amateur basis still and think they can always turn the tap for a little more

IF i ran a club, I think I would be asking for those who can afford to to keep paying their subs to ensure staff are paid etc whilst those who genuinely cant afford to put theirs on hold until things are clearer further down the line with a promise to ensure people are rightfully rewarded down the line


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## GB72 (Mar 25, 2020)

fundy said:



			there used to be a lot of clubs that operated on that basis, i expect financial pressure has meant a lot have improved but plenty are run on a pretty amateur basis still and think they can always turn the tap for a little more

IF i ran a club, I think I would be asking for those who can afford to to keep paying their subs to ensure staff are paid etc whilst those who genuinely cant afford to put theirs on hold until things are clearer further down the line with a promise to ensure people are rightfully rewarded down the line
		
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I would even have been happy to reduce the commitment. Even if for a year you could leave at any time then this would allow people some room to see how their finances and the situation panned out, accepting that they may lose a month or 2 of fees. Committing for a whole year is asking a lot in the circumstances. 

The other point you make is reward further down the line. The attitude at my club gives me the impression that the only reward that those members will get is a massive increase next year in their fees to make up the subscriptions. Then again, that may move towards making the club the elitist haven that some of the membership want.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 25, 2020)

Springveldt said:



			When you think about it, a club may have zero outgoings really through the shutdown as the staff are going to be entitled to 80% of their wage from the government. The club don't have to pay the other 20% if they can't afford it, although that does suck for the staff. The VAT and business rates have also been put back and I think the government was also dishing out grants of some sorts. Maybe I'm being a bit naive here, wouldn't be the first time.
		
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The greenstaff are still working so no 80% rebate on their wages. Fertilizer, fuel etc is still needed. Do clubs qualify for the rates rebate? Big bonus if they do. VAT may be put back but it will still have to be paid.

Clubs are also missing out other income they would normally get, bar takings, green fees, catering. That is often a key part of income. 

You are quite right that there are some protections and if clubs are only closed for a few weeks then they should be able to ride it out. If they can't cope for 3 weeks then frankly they were on the edge anyway. The 80% policy is going to be a real life saver for many clubs, businesses etc.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 25, 2020)

Funnily enough I have just received an email from my club reminding anyone who has not paid their subs, due by the end of this month, then could they please do so. 'Greenstaff need paying, course maintenance, equipment etc still needs to be paid'. I'm sure a lot of clubs who run April to April will be sending out similar emails.


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## timd77 (Mar 25, 2020)

Mine is a proprietary owned club, I have no loyalty at all and in fact, since I joined in September I’ve been extremely disappointed with the place. To the point where lots of people are leaving, lots are complaining and being allowed to end their membership early and leave. (Pay monthly through fairway credit, based on a rolling year.)

So, prior to coronavirus I was close to reaching the decision to ask to cancel my membership, and was pretty much just waiting to receive clubshop vouchers from a couple of comps before complaining.

Now that the course is shut for god knows how long, I seriously doubt they’ll be so willing to let people tear up their contracts, and so it looks like I’m stuck paying for something I can’t use.

As you can probably tell, there’s no love lost between the owners and the members!


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 25, 2020)

Paid my subs in January I have an account at the bank I put £150 a month in so when due I just pay it.
Not expecting any rebate as it dosnt bother me and I get my money’s worth.
But can appreciate some are not as fortunate as me and priorities differ.
A lot of work is going on at the club ,all new bunkers so when this is over the course should be ready.
As long as staff are working.
Missing my golf already god knows what I will be like in another 3 weeks.


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## Grumps (Mar 25, 2020)

I’ve just joined deer park last month  they emailed the country club membership would not be applied for but now this week they have added the golf to that so won’t be forking our while course is closed.   Even though I wouldn’t have looking for a discount I think  this is a good move from the owners


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 25, 2020)

My membership runs from the start of July to end of June. It's all fullypaid for this year, and I don't expect any reductions for next year. The club still has costs and wages to pay, just because nature has given us all a headache isn't the clubs fault.


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## jim8flog (Mar 25, 2020)

I have realised one plus for our club.

We have a full sized solar array so for the next few weeks virtually everything generated will be money coming to the club - shine sunshine shine.


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## Bigfoot (Mar 25, 2020)

Enville fees are paid in October and WP at the start of May. WP have said they will not take and DD for the time closed. Enville have not commented but can't see anything being given back. Personally, I am not bothered as I would pay both. I don't want either to fail and as Bunkermagnet said - It is not the clubs fault.


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## Grant85 (Mar 25, 2020)

PNWokingham said:



			With subs now due in a lot of cases, i guess this is a burning question?

All the local gyms/ health clubs i have heard about have said they will not charge but not sure on many golf clubs?
		
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Personally don't get the comparison with a gym and a golf course. 

Unless your course is run as a business and you are paying for a service, I think it's a real poor show to expect a rebate or refund. A gym is a profit seeking enterprise and as such you are paying for access, as such that business takes on the risk. 

A golf club, is a member owned, member run facility and as such members share in the risk and responsibility. 

In reality, a lot of golf clubs will not survive the next few months and unless you didn't care about your club possibly going under or changing significantly, then those who can and who expect to continue playing, should pay up.


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## Grant85 (Mar 25, 2020)

Should add that if the club genuinely saved money through the crisis... due to government handouts, rebates, wage payments etc. then ultimately that money will be for the benefit of the members.

Ultimately a club may decide to refund members, but given most clubs aren't flush with cash it's more likely to go towards the running costs / maintenance / course repairs etc.


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## PNWokingham (Mar 25, 2020)

Grant85 said:



			Personally don't get the comparison with a gym and a golf course.

Unless your course is run as a business and you are paying for a service, I think it's a real poor show to expect a rebate or refund. A gym is a profit seeking enterprise and as such you are paying for access, as such that business takes on the risk.

A golf club, is a member owned, member run facility and as such members share in the risk and responsibility.

In reality, a lot of golf clubs will not survive the next few months and unless you didn't care about your club possibly going under or changing significantly, then those who can and who expect to continue playing, should pay up.
		
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A lot of golf clubs are proprietary so this is certainly relevant. I am all for supporting clubs and being loyal but think that a member-owned club will get a lot more support in this sense than your average proprietary one. There is no right answer and costs and ability to survive - and hence what incentives can be offered - will vary dramatically. And by the way - don't have a go at me as i have not offered any opinion one way or another. I was just interested to see what different clubs are doing and what different people think.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 25, 2020)

PNWokingham said:



			A lot of golf clubs are proprietary so this is certainly relevant. I am all for supporting clubs and being loyal but think that a member-owned club will get a lot more support in this sense than your average proprietary one. There is no right answer and costs and ability to survive - and hence what incentives can be offered - will vary dramatically. And by the way - don't have a go at me as i have not offered any opinion one way or another. I was just interested to see what different clubs are doing and what different people think.
		
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How comfortable is that fence slasher 😂😂


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Mar 25, 2020)

Nobody has heard anything so far...or seems to expect to hear anything.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 25, 2020)

Subs were due at the start of March and so many will have been in although members do have until the end of the month to get payment in or set up a DD. I am hoping most will have paid before lockdown and those that don't will cough up anyway (or technically they won't be members). Get the cash in now and we can look at discounts/refunds at a later date. Lets have a club to return to


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## fundy (Mar 25, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Subs were due at the start of March and so many will have been in although members do have until the end of the month to get payment in or set up a DD. I am hoping most will have paid before lockdown and those that don't will cough up anyway (or technically they won't be members). Get the cash in now and we can look at discounts/refunds at a later date. Lets have a club to return to
		
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as long as the golf clubs alright eh Homie


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## Crow (Mar 25, 2020)

Our year begins in April, most have already paid.

Had an email today to say that while the club is closed the time/cost will be banked and then credited or reimbursed later.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 25, 2020)

fundy said:



			as long as the golf clubs alright eh Homie 

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Typically facetious reply. Why not hope the clubs survive and they are there for us at the end of this mess. Got to have something positive to look forward to. Some will no doubt go, and I imagine some of those will be some established and founded many moons ago. However lets hope there aren't too many casualties, the staff are looked after and can cope financially and we're all out playing soon. If that doesn't fit in with your thinking with the current crisis then I'm sorry but tough.


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## IanM (Mar 25, 2020)

fundy said:



			as long as the golf clubs alright eh Homie 

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If you want yours to close through insolvency, you are a member of the wrong club!


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## Crazyface (Mar 25, 2020)

To expect anyone to pay for a service they are not receiving is bonkers. Why should a member owned golf club expect it's current membership to pay out money for goods they are not going to receive? Aren't golf clubs a business? If so aren't they going to get government support ie MONEY? No business tax or something? There is going to be a huge mess to sort out when this is over that for sure!!!!


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## AdamC28 (Mar 25, 2020)

Nothing concrete from the club yet in terms of what they will do but they have mentioned that if we pay fees that are due now (April) they will take it into consideration for next years fee.


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## Grant85 (Mar 25, 2020)

Crazyface said:



			To expect anyone to pay for a service they are not receiving is bonkers. Why should a member owned golf club expect it's current membership to pay out money for goods they are not going to receive? Aren't golf clubs a business? If so aren't they going to get government support ie MONEY? No business tax or something? There is going to be a huge mess to sort out when this is over that for sure!!!!
		
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A member owned club is not a business. It is not seeking to generate profit. It is a collectively owned organisation seeking to provide a golf facility for its members. If you are a member, you own a share In the club.

Most member owns clubs will not run big surpluses, their funds will be reinvested into their facilities for their members, or returned to the members in the form of cheaper fees.


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## Fish (Mar 25, 2020)

Crazyface said:



			To expect anyone to pay for a service they are not receiving is bonkers. Why should a member owned golf club expect it's current membership to pay out money for goods they are not going to receive? Aren't golf clubs a business? If so aren't they going to get government support ie MONEY? No business tax or something? There is going to be a huge mess to sort out when this is over that for sure!!!!
		
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Wow, this has only just kicked in, so let’s say for an example it runs to end of July, so you've lost 4mths and a couple of weeks, but let’s factor it to 6mths, let’s say ANNUAL subs are £1k, and let’s say you can get to play twice a week, so if you then don’t think your course is worth a green fee of less than £20 a day, (you’ve enjoyed £10 in the past on similar example) then maybe you’re more suited to being a nomad and going to a pay & play course, because if you were a member of my club and displaying such a lack of empathy to those running it, I’d be calling an egm to have you removed!


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## Jacko_G (Mar 25, 2020)

I'm paid up for the year and do not expect any sort of discount or rebate. Why should I?

I'm still healthy at present as are my immediate family and friends. That's what counts just now not golf.


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## Jacko_G (Mar 25, 2020)

Crazyface said:



			To expect anyone to pay for a service they are not receiving is bonkers. Why should a member owned golf club expect it's current membership to pay out money for goods they are not going to receive? Aren't golf clubs a business? If so aren't they going to get government support ie MONEY? No business tax or something? There is going to be a huge mess to sort out when this is over that for sure!!!!
		
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That is just a rant not a post!


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## Diamond (Mar 25, 2020)

If I could play somewhere else it would be different.  As I can’t I have no qualms after playing 13 local courses I picked the one I am currently at for good reason and they have not changed.  if my financial situation is the same when the club re opens I am happy to pay a levy and happy to pay next years subs in advance.


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## GB72 (Mar 25, 2020)

I think that people have to appreciate that people see golf clubs differently and that is no bad thing. At both extremes, some have it as the focal point of their life, others see it as simply a place to play golf. Golf is a broad church, it can take both. Me, I tend towards the place to play golf end of the spectrum. I don't play every week, at most I play twice some weeks. The social side other than a quick drink after a round does not interest me, I have other places I would rather socialise and my friends are, in the main, not golfers. In my boat you look at not whether golf is adorable but whether you can justify what you spend in what is only a part of your life. Things can tip the scales. Long periods of bad weather, the current situation etc. You then start to think whether you would rather spend that £1000 on something else. That is just a calm, rational decision and one that hundreds of golfers make every year. Actions by a club at times like these are not expected but can swing the scales back in the other direction. It is not something for people to get riled about, just that people look at golf and golf clubs in different ways.


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## Del_Boy (Mar 25, 2020)

Siolag said:



			I won't be expecting anything as a benefit for paying for the next few months, but, I am in the position where my income has been unaffected, and actually, I am spending comparatively less, as I'm not travelling to work. Not everyone will be in that position.
		
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Not traveling to work or boozing lunchtime and evening.  Saving a fortune.  What with refunds from holidays etc that have been cancelled.  For the first time ever my monthly credit card bill shows they owe me!!


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## Golf_Mad (Mar 26, 2020)

My fees renewed in January.

I don't expect my club to reimburse us with anything, it would be nice if next seasons fees were reduced by whatever the cost per month is but I can't see that happening.


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## Wildboy370 (Mar 26, 2020)

Just had email from club. They have said the 12 months will start from when course re opens so if that’s end of June then next years subs due end of June 2021. Also extended due date by two weeks. Clubs need the money to survive and to ensure course is in good condition when we do start to play as this time year is vital to getting fertiliser down, and preparing ground which ain’t a cheap thing. Support your club if you can if not talk to them and I’m sure they won’t want to loose you and will come up with some payment Plan


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## HampshireHog (Mar 26, 2020)

I don’t expect to be reimbursed, membership renews in Jan.  I don’t expect get cheaper subs next year.  I do expect my club to survive though.  In the grand scheme of things if it would cost me more to join somewhere else when it all dies down than anything I’m likely to be get back short term.


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## HankMarvin (Mar 27, 2020)

Paid all my fees in full for all 3 membership, Glenbervie are looking into reducing next years fees. Gleneagles have offered members 2 options.

First option is an free overnight stay in the hotel for two with free meal and breakfast and full use of the facilities.

Option 2 is £300 credit into your account to use in any Gleneagles own retail shop, Pro shop or hotel.

The above offers applies for each month the course is closed so if this shutdown takes 2-3 months its going to cost them a fortune. Let's hope we are back playing soon.


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## Sats (Mar 27, 2020)

So far only an email to say we can suspend our fees until it reopens. I joined in January on a 15 month for 12 month direct debit deal and as I'm a key worker I'll be continuing to pay my subs as I'd like to support my club so hopefully when this madness ends I'll have a club to come back to.


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## robinthehood (Mar 27, 2020)

Paid in full in Jan, if it's a prolonged closure then id like to see my membership extended by the same amount, or a pro rata discount next year.
But nothing from the club beyond we're closed .


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## Dogma (Mar 27, 2020)

Nothing has changed with ours. 

Mine are actually due right now and I don't mind paying the year in full despite not knowing when I'll be back on the course.


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## Jacko_G (Mar 27, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Paid in full in Jan, if it's a prolonged closure then id like to see my membership extended by the same amount, or a pro rata discount next year.
But nothing from the club beyond we're closed .
		
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Can I ask why you feel that way? I'm genuinely interested.

Clubs will still be paying wages to greens staff, paying fuel for the course maintenance, paying for feed and fertilizers etc. They'll also still be paying insurance premiums, bills, rates etc etc. It's not as if the club has suddenly incurred no running costs during this period. 

Again I appreciate you're entitled to your view and you may think I'm wrong but for me this years fees are still contributing to the running of the club and the management of my club until such times as its deemed fit to resume golfing. Unprecedented times these for golf courses and by discounting next year they could be making a rod for their own backs.


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## Crazyface (Mar 27, 2020)

Fish said:



			Wow, this has only just kicked in, so let’s say for an example it runs to end of July, so you've lost 4mths and a couple of weeks, but let’s factor it to 6mths, let’s say ANNUAL subs are £1k, and let’s say you can get to play twice a week, so if you then don’t think your course is worth a green fee of less than £20 a day, (you’ve enjoyed £10 in the past on similar example) then maybe you’re more suited to being a nomad and going to a pay & play course, because if you were a member of my club and displaying such a lack of empathy to those running it, I’d be calling an egm to have you removed!
		
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I've paid mine. So ner. I was arguing the other sides case. To continue. If the clubs really are "members clubs", they should be signed up as such, with some sort of share entitlement. But you are not. You are a member of the club for one golfing year and pay your subs accordingly for that defined year ONLY. For clubs to be fully "members clubs" you really need to tie them in. How? Dunno. A joining fee was one way. But who got a share certificate when they paid theirs? No one, I'll wager. Then you could remove that shareholding if you did not renew each year. But that didn't happen did it? So these so called "members clubs" aren't really are they? THey are a club that you join each year. And this means golfers have a choice. Sure, it would be a shame if courses closed. There are a few around me that are in trouble, well aren't most? But this is down to poor management IMO. I know one I was at had a load of old bloke throwing a huge monitary legacy around and they had a fantastic course with greens to die for, but when the money ran out, they all jumped off the committees and ran. Leaving one bloke to sort the mess out, which he has done but boy it was close to going under. 
So if your "members clubs" are struggling. Ask yourself why.


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## richbeech (Mar 27, 2020)

I've not heard anything from my club yet however I do believe they are preparing to send some correspondence out. I can't deny that freezing my membership would be a help, especially when my partner is self employed and now can't work so I've got to cover all of the household bills which will leave us with very little disposable income every month until this has all blown over.

I do recognise that clubs are still going to need income though and I would accept still paying my fees if they offered money off next year's fees (which are due in June) or credit in the pro shop. Just figuratively speaking, say the club was closed for 4 months that's £320 I will have paid. If they offered me say £150-£200 credit in the pro shop as a gesture of good will after this has all blown over I'd be happy with that.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 27, 2020)

I only joined March 1st, having chosen to go somewhere at quite an increase of cost. So far we‘ve been emailed a couple of time. Predominately just with the updates as government sent out advice. Yesterday’s email was an array of photos showing the work the green staff are doing.
This is the first year my club haven’t had a joining fee, I’d imagine if the troubles continue they may add one again to convince people not to leave.

im happy to pay my fees as I hope to be here for the foreseeable future, but will admit that if money got tight. Then I would reconsider. Golf is my favourite luxury, but it’s a luxury none the less. I’d cut it out even if we could still play if it wasn’t affordable, but been as nobody can play atm. I fully understand why it’s probably Beijing treated like a gym Membership by many.

Re what I’d like to see happen. I do think some sort loyalty reward could be shown if we‘re in lockdown for a sustained period. a month without is fine. But I’d imagine most people suffer winter golf to enjoy the summer and clubs know this. If a full season 4 months or so is missed Then some of the above suggestions would work.  My friends club are putting the subs paid during a halt onto everyone’s cards *next *season. I like that idea. It encourages spend at the club and people to Stay. It also keeps cash flowing now and won’t cost the club as much to repay as stock is obviously still marked up when sold.


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## Robster59 (Mar 27, 2020)

I'm fortunate to be in a position that I can continue to pay my subs.  Ours is a members club and as such relies on the subs to keep going.  Whilst there is income from the bar and visitors, being on the West Coast of Scotland our visitor income isn't as high as clubs on the East Coast where most overseas visitors tend to go so it mainly relies on income from members contributions to continue.
Years ago, the club put in measures to carefully manage funds and formed a management committee so all the work wasn't put on the Captain.

During this crisis, they have put measures in place.  Most of the staff have been furloughed in line with the governments job retention scheme, although they have retained two greenstaff to attend to essential security and maintenance work. They have submitted an application for the grant available to businesses in the retail, leisure and hospitality sectors. In Scotland this is being handled by the local authorities.  We are a Members’ Club, run by the Members for the Members. The important point of this statement is that we are not a commercial, profit-making operation such as David Lloyd or other such gyms, and every penny of our income is invested in our Club.

Unlike some on here, I do have a strong tie with my club.  I chose it out of a number of clubs when I first moved into the area, have made some wonderful friends and really feel at home here.  I WANT this club to be here when I get back.  I know there are other clubs in the area but, for me, they would alway be second best.

If I want the club to still be here when I get back then I would not be true to myself if I did not continue my subs to keep the club going. The course still needs to be maintained, rates have to be paid, bills have to be paid.  Most of the people busting their guts in the club to keep this going are unpaid volunteers.  Very good at what they do but they are giving their time and effort for the club.  I have no doubt there are a number of members of our club will resign as they look at "bangs for their buck" but I'm trying to take a broader view than that. 

Not everyone will agree with this.  This is purely my personal viewpoint but for me, this is MY CLUB and so as part of that, I want to help.


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## patricks148 (Mar 27, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			Can I ask why you feel that way? I'm genuinely interested.

Clubs will still be paying wages to greens staff, paying fuel for the course maintenance, paying for feed and fertilizers etc. They'll also still be paying insurance premiums, bills, rates etc etc. It's not as if the club has suddenly incurred no running costs during this period.

Again I appreciate you're entitled to your view and you may think I'm wrong but for me this years fees are still contributing to the running of the club and the management of my club until such times as its deemed fit to resume golfing. Unprecedented times these for golf courses and by discounting next year they could be making a rod for their own backs.
		
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i think many confuse a golf club memberships with other memberships like Gyms etc. maintaining a golf course is a 12 months a year thing, not just ground rent and some equip. just because it is closed doesn't mean its not costing to run still. every one wants there cake and eat it these days


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## Reemul (Mar 27, 2020)

My club has said they will extend my membership by the length of time the course is closed. They have sent me vouchers as well, 2 free rounds for guests, 5 hours free on the simulator as well as some food and drink goodies for when the club re opens. If I renew they will also put a free £100 on my card.

I will be renewing, really impressed with what they are doing


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## Depreston (Mar 27, 2020)

chester le street

"
*Direct Debit Payments*
We have received a couple of queries about the possibility of cancelling Fairway Credit payments. I’m afraid that in fairness to our entire membership, we cannot sanction this.
Please remember that direct debit payments are merely a way of spreading the annual subscription. You remain liable for the full debt.
*Most of our members have paid up front in December or January, indeed, some members have paid many years in advance. If you fail to honour the agreement it will be not only be frowned upon by other members, as well as all clubs in the County, *but it will lead to an unfavourable credit rating for you.
You should also be aware that your Credit Broker (Premium Credit in this instance) may seek to recover your liability directly from you.
These funds are vital to meet the on-going costs of running the golf club, even more so when other sources of income have been temporarily terminated.
It is now that we need the support of *all* members.
If you are experiencing hardship due to the current position, please let us know and we will, alongside your Credit Broker, do all we can to try to help.

*Deferrals*
We have always had a generous subscription deferral process. This is for people who cannot play due to illness or injury, have a medical certificate, and is for a minimum of 3 months’ duration. It is not available in the second half of the year.
This is not appropriate at this point in time, and with immediate effect we are withdrawing this option.
Events are moving at a rapid pace and we should hope that it will be possible to lift the sanctions quite soon when we will all be able to get back to playing golf. 
Indeed, England Golf are currently in discussion with Government regarding the status of golf as an allowable exercise, following social distancing guidelines

"

think that is a s***e statement to put out imo


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 27, 2020)

Depreston said:



			chester le street

"
*Direct Debit Payments*
We have received a couple of queries about the possibility of cancelling Fairway Credit payments. I’m afraid that in fairness to our entire membership, we cannot sanction this.
Please remember that direct debit payments are merely a way of spreading the annual subscription. You remain liable for the full debt.
*Most of our members have paid up front in December or January, indeed, some members have paid many years in advance. If you fail to honour the agreement it will be not only be frowned upon by other members, as well as all clubs in the County, *but it will lead to an unfavourable credit rating for you.
You should also be aware that your Credit Broker (Premium Credit in this instance) may seek to recover your liability directly from you.
These funds are vital to meet the on-going costs of running the golf club, even more so when other sources of income have been temporarily terminated.
It is now that we need the support of *all* members.
If you are experiencing hardship due to the current position, please let us know and we will, alongside your Credit Broker, do all we can to try to help.

*Deferrals*
We have always had a generous subscription deferral process. This is for people who cannot play due to illness or injury, have a medical certificate, and is for a minimum of 3 months’ duration. It is not available in the second half of the year.
This is not appropriate at this point in time, and with immediate effect we are withdrawing this option.
Events are moving at a rapid pace and we should hope that it will be possible to lift the sanctions quite soon when we will all be able to get back to playing golf.
Indeed, England Golf are currently in discussion with Government regarding the status of golf as an allowable exercise, following social distancing guidelines

"

think that is a s***e statement to put out imo
		
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That’s a veiled threat! Poor response!


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## CallawayKid (Mar 27, 2020)

If we pay in full before 7th April we'll get 2 months returned to us, if it goes on any longer then it will be reviewed. Very fair for a members club I think.

CK


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## duncan mackie (Mar 27, 2020)

Whilst it's hard not to be impressed by the actions of some clubs (post above) it's equally hard not to appreciate the key issue for many - which at the moment will be 'what, and for how long?' but will also increasingly include 'what is the likely longer term impact on the club/ business?'.
The smaller the course membership part is of an overall business the easier it is to make blanket offers (hotel chain courses) whilst at the opposite end of the spectrum a members club may be considering short term survival.

We are 3 days into an unknown future....i seriously don't expect anything meaningful or definitive at this point!


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## duncan mackie (Mar 27, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			That’s a veiled threat! Poor response!
		
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Don't understand the veiled threat bit?  They are highlighting the realities of fairway credit in response to a high level of enquires from people who clearly don't understand it.


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## jim8flog (Mar 27, 2020)

One of the things I look back on when it comes to supporting my club over and above the annual membership fee is what members (like myself) have done for the club.

Things I have helped to pay for 

An additional 9 hole course
An extension to the clubhouse for a dining / function room
New Office (twice)
New pro shop (twice)
Driving range
Locker room refurbishment
Lounge refurbishment

If it were not for people doing this throughout our whole 100+ year history the club house which was originally nothing more than a wooden shed would have fallen to the ground years ago and the Pro would still be selling goods from a wooden hut which he  was doing when I first joined the club.


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## IanM (Mar 27, 2020)

Chester le Street wording isn't great.... and I wonder why they think we'll be back playing "quite soon?" (what is quite soon anyway?)

I think the overall issue in this whole thread is our loyalty to our clubs and our ability to support them now and after this mess...  that will depend on the type of club it is how long you've been there and your affinity with it.  You may have lots , or none!  Neither is right, but a personal choice or function of circumstances. 

Personally, I will be not expecting any cash back from my club, I wouldn't want to jeopardise it's existence....and I will be seeing how I can help the Pro and Steward regenerate their businesses after all this by buying stuff and eating stuff!!  

I've never used Fairway Credit, but I assume the payments are a separate credit agreement with the credit provider and legally disconnected from any provision of golf services from the club.   (hence they are pointing it out to those who don't understand that)   ....users of it will confirm or correct me!


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## Matty6 (Mar 27, 2020)

At our place renewals are normally due by 1st April. A lot of members renewed back in February. For existing members that haven’t renewed yet, they get an additional month before they have to commit. Nothing is being offered for people who have already renewed.

Personally, that doesn’t bother me. I’ll just be happy if the club comes through this unscathed!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 27, 2020)

duncan mackie said:



			Don't understand the veiled threat bit?  They are highlighting the realities of fairway credit in response to a high level of enquires from people who clearly don't understand it.
		
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By intimating that it will be frowned upon by fellow members and all other Clubs in the County! To me that is possibly cultivating a them and us  mentality both inside and outside the membership.
Plus possibly frightening some with the credit rating comment.
Surely this should of been kept in house by them, I’m in the same County and hope our Club and members do right by us and not how it looks to other Clubs.


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## GB72 (Mar 27, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			By intimating that it will be frowned upon by fellow members and all other Clubs in the County! To me that is possibly cultivating a them and us  mentality both inside and outside the membership.
Plus possibly frightening some with the credit rating comment.
Surely this should of been kept in house by them, I’m in the same County and hope our Club and members do right by us and not how it looks to other Clubs.
		
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I read the 'and all other clubs in the county' as a veiled threat to name and shame those that did not pay up. If so, that is very wrong. 

The comments about the credit are fair though. Fairway credit normally pay the club in full on day one and the member has an agreement with them to repay. As such, and as with any such agreement, it is not tied to the club's provision of a service and remains payable irrespective. 

As I mentioned earlier, it is the middle ground that the club will have to keep on side. The die hard golfers will sign up, those who are not as fussed about golf may leave. Those in the middle are the ones that any offer may help sway a decision. I may have been more tempted to stay as a member if, for example, they did not insist on committing to a full year (I would have paid for a couple of months to see how things panned out for me and for the situation in general) and if there were some assurances of not having a massive fee increase next year.


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## patricks148 (Mar 27, 2020)

duncan mackie said:



			Don't understand the veiled threat bit?  They are highlighting the realities of fairway credit in response to a high level of enquires from people who clearly don't understand it.
		
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spot on just had something similar from the kings, i think many just don't understand the credit agreement for monthly isn't with the club but a 3rd party.. credit company... they are a bit like the sceen from goodfellows.... FU you pay me.. though they have given the option to play half now half July for those not already paid.

paid it earlier in the week in full myself and Nairn in December


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 27, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			By intimating that it will be frowned upon by fellow members and all other Clubs in the County! To me that is possibly cultivating a them and us  mentality both inside and outside the membership.
Plus possibly frightening some with the credit rating comment.
Surely this should of been kept in house by them, I’m in the same County and hope our Club and members do right by us and not how it looks to other Clubs.
		
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There are ways of getting a message across and this is not a good one. My club sent a 'we are all in this together, keep paying your fees, we will be back playing soon' type of message that was upbeat and non threatening. It got the point across but not in an aggressive way. I think they got the tone right, CLS did not.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 27, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			spot on just had something similar from the kings, i think many just don't understand the credit agreement for monthly isn't with the club but a 3rd party.. credit company... they are a bit like the sceen from goodfellows.... FU you pay me.. though they have given the option to play half now half July for those not already paid.

paid it earlier in the week in full myself and Nairn in December
		
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I perfectly understand how the credit company works, maybe ask me to clarify were I’m coming from rather put your words in my mouth.

The email also covers referrals, that is Club business, nothing to do with the credit company and just like I responded to Duncan, what has it got to do with other Clubs in the County.


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## J55TTC (Mar 27, 2020)

Continuing to pay but our renewal date will get pushed forward for the same period the club is forced to close.


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## patricks148 (Mar 27, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I perfectly understand how the credit company works, maybe ask me to clarify were I’m coming from rather put your words in my mouth.

The email also covers referrals, that is Club business, nothing to do with the credit company and just like I responded to Duncan, what has it got to do with other Clubs in the County.
		
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i wasn't putting anything in your mouth dear boy, i didn't mention you or aim anything at you, i was agreeing with the person i replied to


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## louise_a (Mar 27, 2020)

Ours are due next month and I will be paying, I would imagine that most members clubs are similar to mine and memberships are a big part of income, so paying everyone should pay if you can.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 27, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			i wasn't putting anything in your mouth dear boy, i didn't mention you or aim anything at you, i was agreeing with the person i replied to

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Who was replying to me! Dress it up how you like.


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## patricks148 (Mar 27, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Who was replying to me! Dress it up how you like.

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dress what up??, no comment was aimed at you, i don't mention you and ive no idea why you think it does get a grip.

you appear to have got the arse for no reason what so ever


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 27, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			dress what up??, no comment was aimed at you, i don't mention you and ive no idea why you think it does get a grip.

you appear to have got the arse for no reason what so ever

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Haven’t got the arse at all! But why highlight one issue in the email and ignore the other points!

Who are these people who don’t understand how credit companies work that you are referring to? Maybe members asking the questions are the self-employed or now unemployed and were approaching their Club looking for understanding or support?


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## duncan mackie (Mar 27, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			By intimating that it will be frowned upon by fellow members and all other Clubs in the County! To me that is possibly cultivating a them and us  mentality both inside and outside the membership.
Plus possibly frightening some with the credit rating comment.
Surely this should of been kept in house by them, I’m in the same County and hope our Club and members do right by us and not how it looks to other Clubs.
		
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Fair point Paul, I agree that the wording is at best clumsy in that area. The reference to other members is probably based on history where a club has tried to help a member, and I've seen this big time in the past, but is their issue not the audience's. The reference to other clubs is just daft. The reference to credit ratings etc is reality.
Not a lot of veiled though  🤔


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 27, 2020)

duncan mackie said:



			Fair point Paul, I agree that the wording is at best clumsy in that area. The reference to other members is probably based on history where a club has tried to help a member, and I've seen this big time in the past, but is their issue not the audience's. The reference to other clubs is just daft. The reference to credit ratings etc is reality.
Not a lot of veiled though  🤔
		
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I agree and understand the issue with credit ratings etc, but as you and others have said, maybe the email could of been better written.


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## patricks148 (Mar 27, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Haven’t got the arse at all! But why highlight one issue in the email and ignore the other points!

Who are these people who don’t understand how credit companies work that you are referring to? Maybe members asking the questions are the self-employed or now unemployed and were approaching their Club looking for understanding or support?
		
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i was talking about the numptys at the clubs i know up here, i was only agreeing with DM about one part wasn't in any way relating to you your post or any others apart from his

and the company i was refering to is Premium Credit, heard of a few examples where mistakes were made but they still wanted their money. one guy didn't recieve a letter from them telling him they were auto renewing and one guy was ill and could no longer play after 2 months of taking the agreement


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## Fish (Mar 27, 2020)

Subs alone don’t cover all the costs to run a golf club, the bar, restaurant, social functions and societies all contribute towards the income the club requires to not only operate but also invest in itself, so, we have calculated that if we are still closed come the end of our financial year, being end of July, we will now incur a loss of around £180k, and that’s with strangling every operating cost possible at this time. 

So anyone wanting a refund or anything back will simply be twisting the knife more in what are unprecedented circumstances, as the current subs and reserves are all that are keeping ours and most clubs afloat at the minute. 

The longer this lockdown goes on, is another week or month that no revenue is taken by the club, and as such the subs paid and reserves (cash in bank) are diluted, and more and more your club becomes vulnerable. 

You can catch up playing extra rounds that you feel you’ve lost during this period over time, but if your club goes, it’s gone! 

If you like your club & course, then support it, or it could disappear!


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 27, 2020)

Fish said:



			Subs alone don’t cover all the costs to run a golf club, the bar, restaurant, social functions and societies all contribute towards the income the club requires to not only operate but also invest in itself, so, we have calculated that if we are still closed come the end of our financial year, being end of July, we will now incur a loss of around £180k, and that’s with strangling every operating cost possible at this time.

So anyone wanting a refund or anything back will simply be twisting the knife more in what are unprecedented circumstances, as the current subs and reserves are all that are keeping ours and most clubs afloat at the minute.

The longer this lockdown goes on, is another week or month that no revenue is taken by the club, and as such the subs paid and reserves (cash in bank) are diluted, and more and more your club becomes vulnerable.

You can catch up playing extra rounds that you feel you’ve lost during this period over time, but if your club goes, it’s gone!

If you like your club & course, then support it, or it could disappear!
		
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Agree with what you say. We have a theatre company putting on Macbeth in August which is being staged at the course and was going to be a big revenue stream for the year and that is in doubt. We also have a number of societies we rely on annually and of course they won't be paying up front


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## Griffsters (Mar 28, 2020)

I've not read most of this thread but concur with many I have read. Our clubs need our support right now more than ever, I know our club finances are fragile to say the least, this could be disastrous if it continues. If personal circumstances allow, keep paying those subs . Hopefully we'll all have courses to play on at the end of it, probably in superb condition.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 28, 2020)

Email from club saying Everything is fine .
Greenkeepers working ,all staff being paid 80% that can be claimed back from treasury.
We qualify for the business rate holiday .
So all sounds good.
That’s nice to know especially the staff being looked after.
They make the club not just the course.


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## richbeech (Mar 30, 2020)

At the moment things aren't too bad as most courses still have all / some of their greenkeeping staff working in some capacity but if restrictions continue to get worse then it could be a different story. My friend sent me a link to the following article: https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/news/greenkeepers-coronavirus-impact-golf-courses/ 

Basic message is that if lockdown gets more intense and greenstaff are restricted even further to the amount of work they can do things are going to transform very quickly and the golf courses could end up resembling more of a meadow than a golf course. The key thing then is (which I didn't realise) you can't just chop the grass back down to normal length once the restrictions are lifted. It has to be done in stages so you don't kill the grass.


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## Fish (Mar 30, 2020)

Email from our Head Greenkeeper, he’s pleased with everything they’ve managed to catch up on.  He goes on to say; all debris has been removed, excellent definition is being formed, striped fairways, tonnes of sand into our greens, he’s says we’re all in for a real treat when we return 😎🏌️⛳️


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## brfcfan (Mar 30, 2020)

PNWokingham said:



			With subs now due in a lot of cases, i guess this is a burning question?

All the local gyms/ health clubs i have heard about have said they will not charge but not sure on many golf clubs?
		
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Our club is giving 2 free months for every month the course is closed due to COVID 19. They were absolutely desperate for people to sign up so they have offered this amazing deal as long as we commit to signing up for the 2020-21 season


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 30, 2020)

Seen a few clubs online are offering an extension to the membership year (so renewal may go from March-May dependant on the length of the layoff). Nothing official from my club yet but we've literally only just had renewals so perhaps have a bit of time to consider our options


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## Jacko_G (Mar 30, 2020)

brfcfan said:



			Our club is giving 2 free months for every month the course is closed due to COVID 19. They were absolutely desperate for people to sign up so they have offered this amazing deal as long as we commit to signing up for the 2020-21 season
		
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Sounds like suicide!


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## Robster59 (Mar 31, 2020)

Our club has just issued another update to the members.  It's quite long but well written and also includes an update from the Head Greenkeeper.
To summarise:

There has been a very positive reaction to the payment of annual subscriptions (I'm delighted, I know all the lads I play with had continued paying).
While there remains some Members who have not paid (yet!) the response has been really good.
The Board is currently discussing some form of “thank you” to Members for their support.
Two members of the green staff are still working and they are looking to see if they can increase it during the year.
An update to the work they've been doing on our 13th (the more I read about it, the more I can't wait to play it).
Details on the cutting and maintenance programs.
Ongoing work programs when the full team is back.
All-in-all, I'm pleased with the update and how the club is handling the situation.


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## richart (Mar 31, 2020)

Our subs were paid in November, and recent email from club has confirmed no refunds at the moment. 

Imagine this might change if still no golf by next November.


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## Fish (Apr 1, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			Sounds like suicide!
		
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It also sounds like they didn't have a decent business plan in the first place, and don't have any reserves (cash in bank), and as such, they, like possibly many clubs that operate hand to mouth, without an injection of capital, will go to the wall.

I would be very cautious in investing any monies up front to such a scenario (on a promise) as it might not come to fruition.

Nobody wants to see any courses close, but 2 free months for every month it's closed is commercial suicide and not sustainable imo, and comes across as desperation!


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## Imurg (Apr 1, 2020)

Had my last email from the zoo last night (membership ended at midnight)
They're crediting any lost time, freezing fees for 2 years and topping up bar cards with £30( full members) or £20(5 day) this year and next.....
Just this year that's going to cost them almost  a quarter of the members subs....
Tough times..


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## hovis (Apr 1, 2020)

what makes golf clubs different to any other business at the moment?  all have overheads and all need cash flow.  some people on here think a golf club is unique.    there is no way a golf clubs fees are the same as when they are fully open.    I'm no financial expert but the government have introduced a plethora of helpful measures that golf clubs will be utilising to help them through this time.  to simply say "we need all your money now" is very reflective on the golf industry and how it holds itself amongst society.    
 i would love to know how much a golf club actually needs to survive vs how much it wants.  I think many clubs round the county have got their heads up their arse.

my fishing lake said they need the money or they can't pay the farmers rent.   my lake decided those that could not pay would forfeit their place but would remain at the top of the waiting list to regain the spot at the earliest opportunity.  
they allowed one guy to pay his fees with two days labour and parts to complete the otter fencing. 
its not ideal but at least they're trying to give you something


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## Robster59 (Apr 1, 2020)

hovis said:



			what makes golf clubs different to any other business at the moment?  all have overheads and all need cash flow.  some people on here think a golf club is unique.    there is no way a golf clubs fees are the same as when they are fully open.    I'm no financial expert but the government have introduced a plethora of helpful measures that golf clubs will be utilising to help them through this time.  to simply say "we need all your money now" is very reflective on the golf industry and how it holds itself amongst society.   
*i would love to know how much a golf club actually needs to survive vs how much it wants*.  I think many clubs round the county have got their heads up their arse.

my fishing lake said they need the money or they can't pay the farmers rent.   my lake decided those that could not pay would forfeit their place but would remain at the top of the waiting list to regain the spot at the earliest opportunity. 
they allowed one guy to pay his fees with two days labour and parts to complete the otter fencing.
its not ideal but at least they're trying to give you something
		
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At our club, that's all available in the annual report given to all members.


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## Jacko_G (Apr 1, 2020)

hovis said:



			what makes golf clubs different to any other business at the moment?  all have overheads and all need cash flow.  some people on here think a golf club is unique.    there is no way a golf clubs fees are the same as when they are fully open.    I'm no financial expert but the government have introduced a plethora of helpful measures that golf clubs will be utilising to help them through this time.  to simply say "we need all your money now" is very reflective on the golf industry and how it holds itself amongst society.   
i would love to know how much a golf club actually needs to survive vs how much it wants.  I think many clubs round the county have got their heads up their arse.

my fishing lake said they need the money or they can't pay the farmers rent.   my lake decided those that could not pay would forfeit their place but would remain at the top of the waiting list to regain the spot at the earliest opportunity. 
they allowed one guy to pay his fees with two days labour and parts to complete the otter fencing.
its not ideal but at least they're trying to give you something
		
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Only thing I can imagine GC's saving is a bit of electricity and gas. 

All other bills will be getting paid.course is sti getting maintained and I guess it's down to the individual club how many staff they're retaining to do this.


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## hovis (Apr 1, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			Only thing I can imagine GC's saving is a bit of electricity and gas. 

All other bills will be getting paid.course is sti getting maintained and I guess it's down to the individual club how many staff they're retaining to do this.
		
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I meant things like business rates.  surely some staff have been put on the 80% scheme. my gc have laid off almost all staff apart from a few selected green staff


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## Jacko_G (Apr 1, 2020)

hovis said:



			I meant things like council tax, vat, business rates.  surely some staff have been put on the 80% scheme
		
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That's down to individual clubs if they do that. Tax etc will be getting paid. Feeds and fertilizers will be getting used, machinery will be getting used and deprecate, fuel is required just maintain the course. 

I'd also imagine a few clubs will be banking on a bit of visitor income and bar takings to top up monthly outgoings/pay bills.


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## Robster59 (Apr 1, 2020)

hovis said:



			I meant things like business rates.  surely some staff have been put on the 80% scheme. my gc have laid off almost all staff apart from a few selected green staff
		
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See Post #31 on the "How much extra subs" thread


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## hovis (Apr 1, 2020)

See Post #31 on the "How much extra subs" thread[/QUOTE]
 I understand that bills need to be paid but I wonder how much is reduced.  like asking  on repayments on a lawn mower to be deferred. routine maintenance to be suspended and so on.   just with business rates and greenstaff running at 50% has helped my old club hugely.


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## Imurg (Apr 1, 2020)

hovis said:



See Post #31 on the "How much extra subs" thread
		
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I understand that bills need to be paid but I wonder how much is reduced.  like asking  on repayments on a lawn mower to be deferred. routine maintenance to be suspended and so on.   just with business rates and greenstaff running at 50% has helped my old club hugely.[/QUOTE]
Some businesses can, literally, turn off the lights, lockup and come back in 3 months time and start up again and all they would have to pay is rent/rates....
Government pays 80% wages, no gas, electric or water used, may get business rates/vat break.....costs would be minimal
Even at half staff a golf club will consume a fair amount of money just to tick over..


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## hovis (Apr 1, 2020)

Imurg said:



			I understand that bills need to be paid but I wonder how much is reduced.  like asking  on repayments on a lawn mower to be deferred. routine maintenance to be suspended and so on.   just with business rates and greenstaff running at 50% has helped my old club hugely.
		
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Some businesses can, literally, turn off the lights, lockup and come back in 3 months time and start up again and all they would have to pay is rent/rates....
Government pays 80% wages, no gas, electric or water used, may get business rates/vat break.....costs would be minimal
Even at half staff a golf club will consume a fair amount of money just to tick over..[/QUOTE]


yeh, I get that.  but many businesses can't just turn the lights off.  like a gym for eg.  the point I'm trying to make is many golf clubs are saying "pay up in full"   when most other companies are at least trying to help a brother out.   I can use my gym for eg.  we have been "asked" to pay 50% of our fees as the owner still has to pay for the hire of all the quipment.   he has agreed that those that do this will not see a price increase on their membership for at least 3 years.     people just doing what thay can to help and survive


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## Robster59 (Apr 1, 2020)

hovis said:



See Post #31 on the "How much extra subs" thread
		
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I understand that bills need to be paid but I wonder how much is reduced.  like asking  on repayments on a lawn mower to be deferred. routine maintenance to be suspended and so on.   just with business rates and greenstaff running at 50% has helped my old club hugely.[/QUOTE]

Our club is doing all that already.  All unnecessary staff have been furloughed and I know they're looking at other things to keep costs down but there is only so much you can do.  Bills still need to be paid, the couse still needs it's treatment, you can only defer the lease payments on the equipment, and income from visits and the bar has disappeared.  Our clubs budget is run on a tight ship and we don't spend what we don't have, but they still need some income to keep going.
Of course, the situation is still fluid but if we're honest I can see anyone being on any course till end of the summer.


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## hovis (Apr 1, 2020)

Robster59 said:



			I understand that bills need to be paid but I wonder how much is reduced.  like asking  on repayments on a lawn mower to be deferred. routine maintenance to be suspended and so on.   just with business rates and greenstaff running at 50% has helped my old club hugely.
		
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Our club is doing all that already.  All unnecessary staff have been furloughed and I know they're looking at other things to keep costs down but there is only so much you can do.  Bills still need to be paid, the couse still needs it's treatment, you can only defer the lease payments on the equipment, and income from visits and the bar has disappeared.  Our clubs budget is run on a tight ship and we don't spend what we don't have, but they still need some income to keep going.
Of course, the situation is still fluid but if we're honest I can see anyone being on any course till end of the summer.[/QUOTE]

i understand the core of what your saying.  the point I'm trying to make is many clubs and businesses I'm involved in need my money to keep going but they understand times are tough for many.  therefore arw doing what they can to help out and return the favour.    for eg, next year in return for me paying my fishing fees the owner has allowed members to bring a friends at no charge and offered to sell us bait a cost upto a max 20kgs.     its not much and I won't use the offer but at least the gesture is there.   most golf clubs is pay up or else


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## Robster59 (Apr 1, 2020)

hovis said:



			Our club is doing all that already.  All unnecessary staff have been furloughed and I know they're looking at other things to keep costs down but there is only so much you can do.  Bills still need to be paid, the couse still needs it's treatment, you can only defer the lease payments on the equipment, and income from visits and the bar has disappeared.  Our clubs budget is run on a tight ship and we don't spend what we don't have, but they still need some income to keep going.
Of course, the situation is still fluid but if we're honest I can see anyone being on any course till end of the summer.
		
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i understand the core of what your saying.  the point I'm trying to make is many clubs and businesses I'm involved in need my money to keep going but they understand times are tough for many.  therefore arw doing what they can to help out and return the favour.    for eg, next year in return for me paying my fishing fees the owner has allowed members to bring a friends at no charge and offered to sell us bait a cost upto a max 20kgs.     its not much and I won't use the offer but at least the gesture is there.   most golf clubs is pay up or else[/QUOTE]
As in my post #99 on this thread, our club is looking at the options they can give to members as a Thank You for their support.  However, I think they're doing the right thing to look at the options before advising what that will be.  Looking at some of the examples on this thread, there has been a knee-jerk reaction to some of the offers.  This may be fine if they're only closed for a short time but will potentially crippple the club in the long-term.  It's a fine balance to making an offer that means something to the members versus one that damages the club going into the future.


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## clubchamp98 (Apr 1, 2020)

I have paid my fees for the year.
I don’t expect to get any special offers when this is all over.
I will be happy if my club is still there after this.
Some will not survive if the members don’t support them.
Sad but true, actions of members now will decide if you have a club to go back to!


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## harpo_72 (Apr 1, 2020)

My club has not really talked about membership fees, I am sure there are monthly payments being cancelled but that’s speculation.
They have kept 3 staff working although with the capability to furlough they could rotate.
This may seem crazy but the condition of the course could be improved with the lack of use. 
There is cherry on the top stuff which could be downsized. 
I am of the opinion that letting the grass grow  in key areas will only make the course stronger and more resilient.. I will be disappointed on returning to find areas still being mown to mud! 
This is a great opportunity to get on with it .. I would happily volunteer to help as it’s just gardening ( weeding and raking seeding etc) and I won’t be inside the contact distance.


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## Orikoru (Apr 1, 2020)

This is one time I'm extremely glad my club plays at a public course and thus green fees are separate. I paid my £90 membership at the turn of the year, and the rest of the time I can't play I'm saving money (although I'd rather be playing obviously). I was going to pick up the £600 season ticket as well, but they are usually released in March so the council have delayed the release of them.

For those with more normal memberships this must be a really tough decision. You want a golf course to come back to, but in such uncertain times how many can afford to pay out £1000 or more for an activity they can't even do for several months, when most have families to think of first? It's a big risk. 

I'm sure a few golf courses will close after this, but then, they already were.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 1, 2020)

Robster59 said:



			Our club has just issued another update to the members.  It's quite long but well written and also includes an update from the Head Greenkeeper.
To summarise:

There has been a very positive reaction to the payment of annual subscriptions (I'm delighted, I know all the lads I play with had continued paying).
While there remains some Members who have not paid (yet!) the response has been really good.
The Board is currently discussing some form of “thank you” to Members for their support.
Two members of the green staff are still working and they are looking to see if they can increase it during the year.
An update to the work they've been doing on our 13th (the more I read about it, the more I can't wait to play it).
Details on the cutting and maintenance programs.
Ongoing work programs when the full team is back.
All-in-all, I'm pleased with the update and how the club is handling the situation.
		
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What you doing to your 13th - an epic little hole from which you get possibly one of the best views you'll get anywhere in the country.  Have you taken the trees out (I preferred it 'nude')


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 1, 2020)

When a  business is in difficulty is it not often the case that the shareholders are asked to provide additional funding through some mechanism in order to keep the business afloat, and thereby protecting the shareholding of those shareholders.

As a shareholder in my club if I was asked to put a little more money in then I would.  600 members stick in £50 each (£50 that most would have spent in the club in a few weeks in normal times in any case) then that is £30,000.  And that input of funding could make a significant difference.

Hopefully not required at my place.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 1, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			When a  business is in difficulty is it not often the case that the shareholders are asked to provide additional funding through some mechanism in order to keep the business afloat, and thereby protecting the shareholding of those shareholders.

As a shareholder in my club if I was asked to put a little more money in then I would.  600 members stick in £50 each (£50 that most would have spent in the club in a few weeks in normal times in any case) then that is £30,000.  And that input of funding could make a significant difference.

Hopefully not required at my place.
		
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And if only 500 members agree, do you raise it to £60.00 each for them and the other 100 members pay nothing?

No comeback on any member who doesn’t or can’t pay any extra?


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## Robster59 (Apr 1, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			What you doing to your 13th - an epic little hole from which you get possibly one of the best views you'll get anywhere in the country.  Have you taken the trees out (I preferred it 'nude') 

Click to expand...

They've

Relaid the tee
Replaced the turf on the front of the green
Increased the size of both the front left and right bunkers
Put an additional bunker in the back where the old grass bunker used to be
Used capilliary concrete in the bunkers to aid drainage
Used artificial grass for the path to the green
Putting in a new path from the 13th to the 14th
A lot of the trees had been cut already but the club is looking at removing more.
This is the latest update from the Paul Hampsey, our Head Greenkeeper
"Up until the outbreak, we had made good progress and have shaped and drained the new grass bunkers at the back of the 13th green and are just waiting on new fescue turf arriving to turf out the base of them. We have also transplanted heather and fescue slabs to the surrounds of the new grass bunkers and on either side of the grass walkway. We plan to do the same with the tee banks at the new 13th and 14th tees.

The idea of this rough slabbing is to try and bring back as much of the natural vegetation to the out of play areas of the hole,  leaving more than enough maintained turf for playability. This will give great definition to the tees green and surround and will also reduce maintenance to out of play areas so we can put more focus to priority areas."

I'm sure I've got more photos but this is the only one I can find at the moment, I'll add more if I find them.


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## JollyRedDevil (Apr 1, 2020)

Our membership is £1380.00 rising to £1560.00 with union fees, cost of lockers etc.
They have said if we pay in full by the end of April then we'll get back %1 for every week the course is closed and 1% for every week the clubhouse is closed, up to a maximum of 60%. All the money refunded is to go on to our bar/club card.


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## timd77 (Apr 1, 2020)

I found out this morning that I’m being furloughed from Monday. First thought being ‘what unnecessary costs can I cut’ to protect my family and of course, golf was one of them.

As mentioned previously, I pay mine monthly via fairway credit and so wasn’t sure if I could cancel. The club have already emailed me back agreeing to cancel my membership and the fairway credit agreement, and that it won’t affect my credit score.

Quite surprised they’ve done that as the experience I’ve had with them since joining in September has been poor, so fair play to them.

Obviously I’m gutted to no longer be a member somewhere, I feel a bit homeless now! Hopefully things return to normal soon and I’ll find a new gaff.


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## Bigfoot (Apr 1, 2020)

WP have told us that the time closed will be added to our membership and next years fees will be for 14 months from restart.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			And if only 500 members agree, do you raise it to £60.00 each for them and the other 100 members pay nothing?

No comeback on any member who doesn’t or can’t pay any extra?
		
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Correct - no comeback.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 1, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Correct - no comeback.
		
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Then it would be unfair imo, I’ll also admit I don’t know what would be fair, but hopefully Clubs will sort it to everyones benefit.


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## Robster59 (Apr 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			And if only 500 members agree, do you raise it to £60.00 each for them and the other 100 members pay nothing?

No comeback on any member who doesn’t or can’t pay any extra?
		
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It's the same when a levy is voted on at the club AGM.  If it gets voted through there then everyone pays it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 1, 2020)

Robster59 said:



			It's the same when a levy is voted on at the club AGM.  If it gets voted through there then everyone pays it.
		
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Agreed, but that’s done by democratic means, just got to hope Clubs don’t try and do it by other routes.

I’m lucky in that I could and would support the Club, unfortunately living in a deprived area in the NE, not many members are in the same position and our place would need to tread carefully if that option was needed. (Hopefully not)


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Then it would be unfair imo, I’ll also admit I don’t know what would be fair, but hopefully Clubs will sort it to everyones benefit.
		
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If I choose to contribute then it cannot be unfair to me - because I made the choice.


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## Garush34 (Apr 1, 2020)

My club sent an email today detailing what the green keeper is doing during our closure. 

They also asked for anyone that hasn't done so to pay their membership if they could to support the club. No mention of a discount or refund, which I'm glad they haven't. I hope the members support the club and pay if they can. I've already paid mine, and hope the clubs survives through this difficult time.


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## louise_a (Apr 1, 2020)

I paid mine today, being retired  I don't expect any reduction in my income but my expenditure has dropped so no problem paying fees, I want to have a club to.  The club have sent an email out saying 2 greenkeepers will be continuing working so the course  is being looked after, the also asked people thinking about giving up membership to contact the office, dont know what they are thinking of offering them though.


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## Val (Apr 2, 2020)

Keep reading about the government meant paying 80% of salaries which they do indirectly, the business has to have the money to pay the employee first then the business claims it back. 

Golf clubs need to have the money, money comes from fees. It's a huge vicious circle.


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## OnTour (Apr 2, 2020)

Due 1st April - sadly I'll wait shut for 5 months through the winter with 3 Saturdays play (nothing said about possible rebate through that period) so I emailed the subs guy and said I'm happy to pay monthly for time I play or it's open but not the full amount. currently no work or pay so looking after me and my family first over a CLUB. happily except £1000 each for doing nothing if available ??  

Communication is very poor at golf clubs, bury your head in the sand mentality. Staff on full pay through winter doing nothing, not even a tidy up, if they can't sit on a mower they don't work #TooWet for machines. run by the boys club sadly.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 2, 2020)

OnTour said:



			Communication is very poor at golf clubs, bury your head in the sand mentality. Staff on full pay through winter doing nothing, not even a tidy up, if they can't sit on a mower they don't work #TooWet for machines. run by the boys club sadly.
		
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Don't know where you are  a member but that sounds nothing like my Club.

A weekly e-mailed newsletter and communication this week regarding the subs due 1 April. Won't go into detail but suffice to say that the plan is very sympathetic to members whilst still acknowledging the Club's need for some funding in the short term. 

As for course maintenance in the winter, again what you describe is in complete contrast to our greens staff. Drainage work, bunker renovation etc. are all done during those months.


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## ferenezejohn (Apr 2, 2020)

OnTour said:



			Due 1st April - sadly I'll wait shut for 5 months through the winter with 3 Saturdays play (nothing said about possible rebate through that period) so I emailed the subs guy and said I'm happy to pay monthly for time I play or it's open but not the full amount. currently no work or pay so looking after me and my family first over a CLUB. happily except £1000 each for doing nothing if available ?? 

Communication is very poor at golf clubs, bury your head in the sand mentality. Staff on full pay through winter doing nothing, not even a tidy up, if they can't sit on a mower they don't work #TooWet for machines. run by the boys club sadly.
		
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Is it the norm for your club to be closed as much or was it due to the extreme weather.
If not you need to find a new club.
Your 100% correct family comes first, the financial impact of this will be massive and golf clubs will be one of the luxurious people who lose jobs have to take a hard look at.


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## Val (Apr 2, 2020)

OnTour said:



			Due 1st April - sadly I'll wait shut for 5 months through the winter with 3 Saturdays play (nothing said about possible rebate through that period) so I emailed the subs guy and said I'm happy to pay monthly for time I play or it's open but not the full amount. currently no work or pay so looking after me and my family first over a CLUB. happily except £1000 each for doing nothing if available ?? 

Communication is very poor at golf clubs, bury your head in the sand mentality. Staff on full pay through winter doing nothing, not even a tidy up, if they can't sit on a mower they don't work #TooWet for machines. run by the boys club sadly.
		
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If that was my club I wouldnt have been a member long. Shocking if the case.


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## Crazyface (Apr 2, 2020)

Well, I've had an e mail regarding my wifes membership. It run 12 months from when you join. She was due to renew end of Feb but for reasons I won't go into she didn't renew. Great offer from the club. If she pays now they are offering to allow unused points to be carried over and membership to restart from the day the government allows golf to re-start. 
Now that's service !!!!!


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## Zig (Apr 2, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Agreed, but that’s done by democratic means, just got to hope Clubs don’t try and do it by other routes.

I’m lucky in that I could and would support the Club, unfortunately living in a deprived area in the NE, not many members are in the same position and our place would need to tread carefully if that option was needed. (Hopefully not)
		
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Where do you play Paul? I'm at Seaton and they raised the fees a significant amount this year to pay for additional work on the course. Agreed through the correct channels, and the course was starting to look fab when last there a couple of weeks ago. However, if the only option was to go back to the members and ask for another increase for covid-19..

Like you say, I'm not sure many clubs in the NE have the option of hiking the fees as people simply won't be able to afford it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2020)

Zig said:



			Where do you play Paul? I'm at Seaton and they raised the fees a significant amount this year to pay for additional work on the course. Agreed through the correct channels, and the course was starting to look fab when last there a couple of weeks ago. However, if the only option was to go back to the members and ask for another increase for covid-19..

Like you say, I'm not sure many clubs in the NE have the option of hiking the fees as people simply won't be able to afford it.
		
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Seaham mate.


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## Zig (Apr 2, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Seaham mate.

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Have only played there once in an open... good day out! Played with an ex-member - Davey Turner - top craic! The pro shop seems really good and pro-active online too


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2020)

Zig said:



			Have only played there once in an open... good day out! Played with an ex-member - Davey Turner - top craic! The pro shop seems really good and pro-active online too 

Click to expand...

Andrew’s quality, will always give best price.

Love Seaton myself, was a member for a couple of years a few years back and if it was 15 minutes closer I’d still be there.


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## jim8flog (Apr 2, 2020)

One nice new update from the club.

Anybody who has been asked to remain at home for 12 weeks for being in the at risk group will get a credit for any period the club is open during the 12 weeks


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## Zig (Apr 2, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Andrew’s quality, will always give best price.

Love Seaton myself, was a member for a couple of years a few years back and if it was 15 minutes closer I’d still be there.
		
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Love it... lucky with it's location too - if it was on the south coast on the Southport stretch it'd be three times the price. If it wasn't for the location/industry it'd be twice as high in the rankings too!


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## jim8flog (Apr 2, 2020)

Email out from the manager to say that around two thirds of the members had renewed and deadline extended to 7th April.

Should be sufficient for us to avoid problems in the short term.

One thing that me think somebody had not thought it through - he apparently said to another member he was not going to renew. He also took the view that if the club went to the wall he would get a share of the sale of the assets!! If I had been speaking to him I would have told him he would not because he would not be a member.


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## IanM (Apr 2, 2020)

Just had the email from our Club.

 - Subs all paid in January, the financial issue will be loss of marginal revenue from bar and green fees.  Will have to tighten belt to accommodate
- Staff put on short time or laid off will continue to be paid by club and we will attempt to cover all/some from the Govt aid.
- And here is the key bit  - quote "As co owners of the Club we all have a responsibility to support it. Therefore no refund of subs for time lost will be made. This is vital for the health of the club.  Initiatives to support the Pro and Caterers are under discussion."  etc etc


I am ok with that as I understand the deal.  Some may resign their membership and be entitled to pro-rata refund for rest of year.  Rejoining would then require any joining fee.  So, will be interesting to see which route some take.  

I think the club is wealthy and stable enough to see this out... many will not be.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 2, 2020)

Had this through

As the Covid-19 crisis continues to impact our daily lives, it seems a month since HM Government announced greater restrictions but in reality it is just over a week!
A week in politics is a long time as Harold Wilson once said, and at the club the same can be said about the amount of work that has gone on behind the scenes by the Directors as we work to reduce costs and protect the clubhouse and golf course during the closedown.
Whilst it has been necessary to furlough some of our staff within the office and clubhouse, we appreciate their understanding during this difficult time and hope to see them back full time when normal service resumes.
Our Green staff continue to maintain the golf course while ensuring they exercise good social distancing. The grass factory is now in full production thanks to the wettest winter and the warming soil due to the arrival of Spring. As a result the head greenkeeper and his small team are ensuring the course is maintained to an acceptable level so that once restrictions are lifted we will be back out on the fairways with minimal delay.
All of this work comes at a cost and at a time when 3rd party income from green fees and societies together with our bar trade sales, all of which are so important to the clubs’ finances has dried up overnight. As such we are exploring all avenues so that we benefit from the support packages announced by Government due to the Coronavirus and we are also in discussion with our landlord regarding our rental obligations.
Your club is a members owned golf club and your ongoing commitment and continued support will be essential to allow us to provide a golf course and club for us all to enjoy once Covid-19 is binned to history. Your Club Captain is already working on proposals to see an orderly return to the golf course that will benefit members once the Government allows.
Finally we have many friends at the club, some whom may be required to self isolate or may live alone. Whilst we cannot nip around for cup of tea or something stronger and a chat, we can give them a call on the telephone to catch up and relive the odd birdie or story – As they say “It’s good to chat!!”
Stay safe everyone and thank you for your continued support.


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## fundy (Apr 2, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Had this through

As the Covid-19 crisis continues to impact our daily lives, it seems a month since HM Government announced greater restrictions but in reality it is just over a week!
A week in politics is a long time as Harold Wilson once said, and at the club the same can be said about the amount of work that has gone on behind the scenes by the Directors as we work to reduce costs and protect the clubhouse and golf course during the closedown.
Whilst it has been necessary to furlough some of our staff within the office and clubhouse, we appreciate their understanding during this difficult time and hope to see them back full time when normal service resumes.
Our Green staff continue to maintain the golf course while ensuring they exercise good social distancing. The grass factory is now in full production thanks to the wettest winter and the warming soil due to the arrival of Spring. As a result the head greenkeeper and his small team are ensuring the course is maintained to an acceptable level so that once restrictions are lifted we will be back out on the fairways with minimal delay.
All of this work comes at a cost and at a time when 3rd party income from green fees and societies together with our bar trade sales, all of which are so important to the clubs’ finances has dried up overnight. As such we are exploring all avenues so that we benefit from the support packages announced by Government due to the Coronavirus and we are also in discussion with our landlord regarding our rental obligations.
Your club is a members owned golf club and your ongoing commitment and continued support will be essential to allow us to provide a golf course and club for us all to enjoy once Covid-19 is binned to history. Your Club Captain is already working on proposals to see an orderly return to the golf course that will benefit members once the Government allows.
Finally we have many friends at the club, some whom may be required to self isolate or may live alone. Whilst we cannot nip around for cup of tea or something stronger and a chat, we can give them a call on the telephone to catch up and relive the odd birdie or story – As they say “It’s good to chat!!”
Stay safe everyone and thank you for your continued support.
		
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sounds like a lot of words to not actually say anything!


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## louise_a (Apr 2, 2020)

We are getting regular email updates from our secretary,as I have said before our year runs from 1st April, already 102 members have renewed, which is encouraging.


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## fundy (Apr 2, 2020)

louise_a said:



			We are getting regular email updates from our secretary,as I have said before our year runs from 1st April, already 102 members have renewed, which is encouraging.
		
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out of how many members Louise? doesnt sound that many based on a lot of clubs


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## louise_a (Apr 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			out of how many members Louise? doesnt sound that many based on a lot of clubs
		
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I believe about 350-400. the promising thing is these 102 have paid as soon as subs are due, people are given until the end of the month before being chased.


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## fundy (Apr 2, 2020)

louise_a said:



			I believe about 350-400. the promising thing is these 102 have paid as soon as subs are due, people are given until the end of the month before being chased.
		
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ok promising as you say based on those numbers, course must have to battle to survive anyway with that few members?


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## louise_a (Apr 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			ok promising as you say based on those numbers, course must have to battle to survive anyway with that few members?
		
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Subs account for about 65% of income, so the sting is going to be the loss in bar income and green fees, overall last year we lost £4000, so we weren't doing too bad.


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## fundy (Apr 2, 2020)

louise_a said:



			Subs account for about 65% of income, so the sting is going to be the loss in bar income and green fees, overall last year we lost £4000, so we weren't doing too bad.
		
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yep the clubs that have strong bar/catering takings and money from green fees/societies etc are going to feel the pinch for sure, hope the club comes out the other side


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## jim8flog (Apr 2, 2020)

louise_a said:



			Subs account for about 65% of income, so the sting is going to be the loss in bar income and green fees, overall last year we lost £4000, so we weren't doing too bad.
		
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 I remember once putting up a suggestion that we keep all income from societies etc to pay for capital projects. I was informed that would probably mean a 50% increase in our membership fees.
£4000 is quite good we have had years when it has been £40000.


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## fundy (Apr 2, 2020)

jim8flog said:



			I remember once putting up a suggestion that we keep all income from societies etc to pay for capital projects. I was informed that would probably mean a 50% increase in our membership fees.
£4000 is quite good we have had years when it has been £40000.
		
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plenty of clubs bite your arm off for 40k this year


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## Papas1982 (Apr 2, 2020)

Latest from the captain.

Dear members,
What an extraordinary period in history we are going through. I hope that you and your families are as well as can be expected at the current time and, like Jordan, you have managed to build something resembling a golf net in your back garden to keep the levers and muscles in tune.
You hear of amazing acts of kindness at times like this and I am aware that some of the Princes staff are helping to deliver medicines locally to support the NHS. Truly wonderful and we thank you very much for all that you are doing.
We live in humbling times and I just want to extend our thanks to Rob and Ali for the regular messages that they send. They did everything they could to keep the course open for as long as possible and will re-open for members as soon as that is feasible under Government edits. The course is being kept in first class condition ahead of re-opening.
There is no intention to suspend memberships, but I do know that Rob will do something if we are not able to play by the summer.  Let’s make sure, please, that we support our club as much as possible in these difficult times.

kinda what I’d expected. If summer is ruined then they’d probably face a backlash if no compromise, but being a popular club they don’t need to pander to needs just yet.


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## Jacko_G (Apr 3, 2020)

We also got an email through and reading between the lines the loss of revenue will be passed and shared between all members next year which isn't what I would have expected and I certainly don't like.


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## Parsaregood (Apr 3, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			We also got an email through and reading between the lines the loss of revenue will be passed and shared between all members next year which isn't what I would have expected and I certainly don't like.
		
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Drop in the ocean for most of the gailes 1 members I'd imagine 😂


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## Fish (Apr 3, 2020)

fundy said:



			yep the clubs that have strong bar/catering takings and money from green fees/societies etc are going to feel the pinch for sure, hope the club comes out the other side
		
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I spend upwards of £2k a year over the bar for food & drinks on top of my subs, multiply that by just my Fri/Sat/Sun group and the club are losing a bucket load of cash from us 

The club have predicted the loss we will make as I mentioned in a previous post, and that's with our year being from August 1st, so all our subs (750+ members) are in, so the loss is mainly bar & food takings and of course societies, of which we have many on Wednesday's & Thursday's throughout the year.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 3, 2020)

Fish said:



			I spend upwards of £2k a year over the bar for food & drinks on top of my subs, multiply that by just my Fri/Sat/Sun group and the club are losing a bucket load of cash from us 

The club have predicted the loss we will make as I mentioned in a previous post, and that's with our year being from August 1st, so all our subs (750+ members) are in, so the loss is mainly bar & food takings and of course societies, of which we have many on Wednesday's & Thursday's throughout the year.
		
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You and me both buddy. I would be up the club every evening by now working on my game and would usually nip into the bar after for a few beers and a natter. Add in our roll up groups collective spends at weekends (we have three large Saturday groups who are good spenders). We also weren't overly reliant on societies but have had a few large and repeat groups coming for many years which make a huge difference. Chuck the green fees in on top and it's a lot of cash currently missing


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Apr 3, 2020)

Nobody is getting monthly food, beverage, or guest bills while the club is closed, of course, but the membership dues are paid annually. 
No mention of rebates on them to this point, nor do I expect any.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 7, 2020)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52184444

Interesting story on the BBC website regarding monthly fees for nurseries. A similar situation as golf clubs really, they still have costs to pay, do you want it to be there after this is all over etc. I'm sure there will be other examples before this is all over.


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## User20205 (Apr 13, 2020)

Rather than start a new thread, thought I’d revisit this one. 
The expectation at my place is that the membership will renew on 1st May, full fees, as always. There is no real mention of a discount. 
I’m conflicted by this. I get my ‘responsibilities’ as a member, I think describing me as a part owner is pushing it. If I was a part owner, I would have a direct input into the big decisions. 
However, the club, have furloughed staff, outsourced catering etc and have access to EGU funds. They can offset any loss by doing this, but expect the members to pay full fees. 
it doesn’t feel to me like they are sharing the burden at all.


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## Imurg (Apr 13, 2020)

Theres no doubt it can be a dilemma for some. It's a large chunk of cash with plenty of uncertainty 
Others won't have thought twice
Others will walk away.
What all clubs need to do, or have done, is clarify what, if any, rebates, refunds, extended memberships etc etc they are willing and able to do or at the very least confirm that those things will be explored when things return to some semblance of normality. 
My club haven't promised anything but have agreed to look at what they can do when this is over, be that an extension to the year or a freeze on subs.
Some clubs seem to have gone a little overboard on gestures....I read last week that anyone paying their subs at this particular club before 30 April would get next year free....2 years for the price of 1....how can that make economic sense? My last club are giving so much away it wouldn't surprise me if they're not around in a couple of years 
Clubs can only give back if it's not going to leave them in the mire. But it's a financial choice both ways.


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## upsidedown (Apr 13, 2020)

Golf clubs don't survive on just "Membership fees" we are extremely reliant on bar income, green fees and societies .
By reducing our overheads to the bare  minimum we are looking at costs of £20K+ every month


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## User20205 (Apr 13, 2020)

upsidedown said:



			Golf clubs don't survive on just "Membership fees" we are extremely reliant on bar income, green fees and societies .
By reducing our overheads to the bare  minimum we are looking at costs of £20K+ every month
		
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But that’s the same for all businesses, not many others are asking their ‘customers’ to pay for a service they aren’t getting. I appreciate the subtleties around ‘membership’ but the reality is just the same.


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## IanM (Apr 13, 2020)

I'm not so sure.  

In the event of liquidation, "customers " are not in receipt of disposed assets or liable for debts. 

But, that doesn't mean Members' clubs have a free ride on Goodwill or customer service either.....  a fine line


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## upsidedown (Apr 13, 2020)

therod said:



			But that’s the same for all businesses, not many others are asking their ‘customers’ to pay for a service they aren’t getting. I appreciate the subtleties around ‘membership’ but the reality is just the same.
		
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Yes but no as our biggest asset is a living organism which needs maintaining and we are about to enter into it's biggest growth pattern of the year . We could leave it but it'll take time and expensive to bring it back to the levels that paying members expect to play off . Same will be true for all turf based businesses


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## User20205 (Apr 13, 2020)

upsidedown said:



			Yes but no as our biggest asset is a living organism which needs maintaining and we are about to enter into it's biggest growth pattern of the year . We could leave it but it'll take time and expensive to bring it back to the levels that paying members expect to play off . Same will be true for all turf based businesses
		
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Like I say, I’m conflicted. Joint owner, full liability when it suits, not when the  ‘board’ decide fairly fundamental policy


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## upsidedown (Apr 13, 2020)

therod said:



			Like I say, I’m conflicted. Joint owner, full liability when it suits, not when the  ‘board’ decide fairly fundamental policy
		
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Doesn't that come down to how most golf clubs are run , in that the membership appoint Directors and committee members at AGM's and by such appointments they are then in place to run the club's affairs .
I'm on the Board and in my committee we can have 3-4 differing opinions on a single subject out of the 6 members who serve on it . Yes we do listen to members views and  opinions but we realistically cant hear everyone as we'd never get anything done.


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## User20205 (Apr 13, 2020)

upsidedown said:



			Doesn't that come down to how most golf clubs are run , in that the membership appoint Directors and committee members at AGM's and by such appointments they are then in place to run the club's affairs .
I'm on the Board and in my committee we can have 3-4 differing opinions on a single subject out of the 6 members who serve on it . Yes we do listen to members views and  opinions but we realistically cant hear everyone as we'd never get anything done.
		
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For the day to day running, yes. If you make fundamental decisions like; sacking the secretary, outsourcing the catering, replacing the pro without consulting the ‘joint owner’s’ then you can’t complain when they feel disenfranchised, and feel like the board are taking the Mickey by saying ‘we’re all in it together!’
I made my one and only suggestion/complaint last September, after 8 years of membership. I used the ‘book’ as per the appropriate method....I’ve yet to receive a response. It should be a 2 way street


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## upsidedown (Apr 13, 2020)

therod said:



			For the day to day running, yes. If you make fundamental decisions like; sacking the secretary, outsourcing the catering, replacing the pro without consulting the ‘joint owner’s’ then you can’t complain when they feel disenfranchised, and feel like the board are taking the Mickey by saying ‘we’re all in it together!’
I made my one and only suggestion/complaint last September, after 8 years of membership. I used the ‘book’ as per the appropriate method....I’ve yet to receive a response. It should be a 2 way street
		
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Oh dear , if I'm right in assuming that's what's happened at your club then the communication does sound bad , but having said that any employment matter needs to be handled carefully and by the Board not by the members.
You do know the one way you'll effect change is  to get involved


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## chrisd (Apr 13, 2020)

My club has issued an email saying that as a private member club its difficult to give allowance for the period of shutdown but all members who pay their membership by the 30th of April will be offered compensation for the time lost. This, it says, may not be possible in just one year but they will decide what to offer once they have the necessary facts   - I'm quite content with their plan given how difficult its been for golf clubs in recent times


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## chrisd (Apr 13, 2020)

therod said:



			For the day to day running, yes. If you make fundamental decisions like; sacking the secretary, outsourcing the catering, replacing the pro without consulting the ‘joint owner’s’ then you can’t complain when they feel disenfranchised, and feel like the board are taking the Mickey by saying ‘we’re all in it together!’
I made my one and only suggestion/complaint last September, after 8 years of membership. I used the ‘book’ as per the appropriate method....I’ve yet to receive a response. It should be a 2 way street
		
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You should have written it's with a green Sharpie Rod, they'd take notice then 😂😂


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## User20205 (Apr 13, 2020)

upsidedown said:



			Oh dear , if I'm right in assuming that's what's happened at your club then the communication does sound bad , but having said that any employment matter needs to be handled carefully and by the Board not by the members.
You do know the one way you'll effect change is  to get involved 

Click to expand...

 One of my mates showed interest, but was put off when he found the meetings happen at 2.30pm on a Tuesday! I’ve got another 20 years to serve on my apprenticeship. It is true though, that though not perfect, it’s still my club. This thread has proved cathartic, I’ll probably just suck it up & pay up! I’ll start my campaign for chairman 2040 as soon as possible 👍


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 13, 2020)

Received this over the weekend

Dear Member
During this corona virus crisis we have worked hard at the club to reduce our overheads in   a   number   of   ways   through   cancelling   various   contracts   and   where   necessary
furloughed staff in all departments as well as suspended our franchisee payments. We have contacted our landlord regarding the rental payments and are seeking support from
our bankers. We wait to hear what support they both can offer. In addition we are taking advantage of the business rate holiday announced by HM Government.

We are a members club, together enjoying the course and our clubhouse funding our running costs through our annual subscriptions. When we set our annual budget and
subscription levels, we do so taking into account that we rely on a portion of income from societies, green fees and profits  from bar trading. Without that additional income, the
need to reduce overheads becomes even more pressing whilst relying more than ever on the continued support of our members.

As I said in my last communication the green staff continue with essential maintenance on the course and that work will continue as well as maintaining the clubhouse so that we
are in a position to reopen quickly once restrictions are lifted. As  we  come  into   what   would  be   our   peak   season   for  visitors   and   societies,   we  are confident that we have sufficient funds to see us through the months ahead. In light of the announcements coming from Government daily briefings it is too early to tell how long the current   restrictions   will   be   in   place   for,   nor   what   effect   the   virus   will   have   on   our membership numbers and subscription income in the future. As a result, at this time we cannot predict the eventual financial impact the closure will have on the club or future investment plans.

A small number of you have asked about potential subscription refunds, extensions into next year’s golfing season or suspending direct debit payments as a result of not having any golf due   to   our   forced closure  to   comply  with Government guidelines  during   the Covid-19 crisis. Any subscription rebate would reduce our income and impact the operational budget for the   current   membership   year.   It   would   also   have   a   marked   effect   on   future   capital expenditure projects and delay work identified as necessary to improve drainage to the 15th/16th  fairways  following the wettest winter for many years. After taking all these matters into account, the Directors feel it is too early to consider any form of subscription concession at this time. However, we will keep this under review as this crisis evolves and   we   understand the level of  support from our Landlords at  the racecourse and other organisations.


Best wishes

So clearly no plans at this stage to do anything. I'll be interested to see how that affects renewals and how many leave with no incentive on offer at this time. I guess the biggest factor is when we get back out. Sooner rather than later and we'll hopefully keep the majority. Drag it out and I can see some looking for pastures new and a cheaper option


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2020)

There's a fine line between keeping the membership happy and keeping the books balanced. 

As a members club i think everyone needs to accept some short term loss, financial or lack of playing time. 

Hopefully you dont lose too many members and you could organise a big GM day at Royal Ascot to try and inject some much needed funds Homer.


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## harpo_72 (Apr 13, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Received this over the weekend

Dear Member
During this corona virus crisis we have worked hard at the club to reduce our overheads in   a   number   of   ways   through   cancelling   various   contracts   and   where   necessary
furloughed staff in all departments as well as suspended our franchisee payments. We have contacted our landlord regarding the rental payments and are seeking support from
our bankers. We wait to hear what support they both can offer. In addition we are taking advantage of the business rate holiday announced by HM Government.

We are a members club, together enjoying the course and our clubhouse funding our running costs through our annual subscriptions. When we set our annual budget and
subscription levels, we do so taking into account that we rely on a portion of income from societies, green fees and profits  from bar trading. Without that additional income, the
need to reduce overheads becomes even more pressing whilst relying more than ever on the continued support of our members.

As I said in my last communication the green staff continue with essential maintenance on the course and that work will continue as well as maintaining the clubhouse so that we
are in a position to reopen quickly once restrictions are lifted. As  we  come  into   what   would  be   our   peak   season   for  visitors   and   societies,   we  are confident that we have sufficient funds to see us through the months ahead. In light of the announcements coming from Government daily briefings it is too early to tell how long the current   restrictions   will   be   in   place   for,   nor   what   effect   the   virus   will   have   on   our membership numbers and subscription income in the future. As a result, at this time we cannot predict the eventual financial impact the closure will have on the club or future investment plans.

A small number of you have asked about potential subscription refunds, extensions into next year’s golfing season or suspending direct debit payments as a result of not having any golf due   to   our   forced closure  to   comply  with Government guidelines  during   the Covid-19 crisis. Any subscription rebate would reduce our income and impact the operational budget for the   current   membership   year.   It   would   also   have   a   marked   effect   on   future   capital expenditure projects and delay work identified as necessary to improve drainage to the 15th/16th  fairways  following the wettest winter for many years. After taking all these matters into account, the Directors feel it is too early to consider any form of subscription concession at this time. However, we will keep this under review as this crisis evolves and   we   understand the level of  support from our Landlords at  the racecourse and other organisations.


Best wishes

So clearly no plans at this stage to do anything. I'll be interested to see how that affects renewals and how many leave with no incentive on offer at this time. I guess the biggest factor is when we get back out. Sooner rather than later and we'll hopefully keep the majority. Drag it out and I can see some looking for pastures new and a cheaper option
		
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You could ask that the works be delayed to maintain the membership.. short term solution for long term future. As a member you have the right to propose this.


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## fundy (Apr 13, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Received this over the weekend

Dear Member
During this corona virus crisis we have worked hard at the club to reduce our overheads in   a   number   of   ways   through   cancelling   various   contracts   and   where   necessary
furloughed staff in all departments as well as suspended our franchisee payments. We have contacted our landlord regarding the rental payments and are seeking support from
our bankers. We wait to hear what support they both can offer. In addition we are taking advantage of the business rate holiday announced by HM Government.

We are a members club, together enjoying the course and our clubhouse funding our running costs through our annual subscriptions. When we set our annual budget and
subscription levels, we do so taking into account that we rely on a portion of income from societies, green fees and profits  from bar trading. Without that additional income, the
need to reduce overheads becomes even more pressing whilst relying more than ever on the continued support of our members.

As I said in my last communication the green staff continue with essential maintenance on the course and that work will continue as well as maintaining the clubhouse so that we
are in a position to reopen quickly once restrictions are lifted. As  we  come  into   what   would  be   our   peak   season   for  visitors   and   societies,   we  are confident that we have sufficient funds to see us through the months ahead. In light of the announcements coming from Government daily briefings it is too early to tell how long the current   restrictions   will   be   in   place   for,   nor   what   effect   the   virus   will   have   on   our membership numbers and subscription income in the future. As a result, at this time we cannot predict the eventual financial impact the closure will have on the club or future investment plans.

A small number of you have asked about potential subscription refunds, extensions into next year’s golfing season or suspending direct debit payments as a result of not having any golf due   to   our   forced closure  to   comply  with Government guidelines  during   the Covid-19 crisis. Any subscription rebate would reduce our income and impact the operational budget for the   current   membership   year.   It   would   also   have   a   marked   effect   on   future   capital expenditure projects and delay work identified as necessary to improve drainage to the 15th/16th  fairways  following the wettest winter for many years. After taking all these matters into account, the Directors feel it is too early to consider any form of subscription concession at this time. However, we will keep this under review as this crisis evolves and   we   understand the level of  support from our Landlords at  the racecourse and other organisations.


Best wishes

So clearly no plans at this stage to do anything. I'll be interested to see how that affects renewals and how many leave with no incentive on offer at this time. I guess the biggest factor is when we get back out. Sooner rather than later and we'll hopefully keep the majority. Drag it out and I can see some looking for pastures new and a cheaper option
		
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who owns the land Homie and any idea what the rent is?


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## harpo_72 (Apr 13, 2020)

I miss the breakfast stack 
2xtoast (b or W), 2 sausages cut in half and laid on the toast, 2 rashers of bacon, 2 slices of black pudding ( who knew that was so delicious??), 2 fried eggs on top .. 
and a pint of Guinness


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## fundy (Apr 13, 2020)

harpo_72 said:



			I miss the breakfast stack
2xtoast (b or W), 2 sausages cut in half and laid on the toast, 2 rashers of bacon, 2 slices of black pudding ( who knew that was so delicious??), 2 fried eggs on top ..
and a pint of Guinness
		
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i now miss your breakfast stack too, even though ive never had one!!!!


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2020)

harpo_72 said:



			I miss the breakfast stack
2xtoast (b or W), 2 sausages cut in half and laid on the toast, 2 rashers of bacon, 2 slices of black pudding ( who knew that was so delicious??), 2 fried eggs on top ..
and a pint of Guinness
		
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Jesus christ Harpo, that sounds wonderful but the thought of 1200cals puts me off 😂


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## SammmeBee (Apr 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			who owns the land Homie and any idea what the rent is?
		
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Some old bird in Windsor.....unbelievable character she is too!


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## fundy (Apr 13, 2020)

SammmeBee said:



			Some old bird in Windsor.....unbelievable character she is too!
		
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think if i was the club Id be having a rent holiday then


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## Slime (Apr 13, 2020)

No.


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## JamesR (Apr 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			i now miss your breakfast stack too, even though ive never had one!!!!
		
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Me too 😋


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## fundy (Apr 13, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Me too 😋
		
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might have to change my forum 4 ball to include Harpo now! that or we press gang him into organising a meet


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## harpo_72 (Apr 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Jesus christ Harpo, that sounds wonderful but the thought of 1200cals puts me off 😂
		
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You could go sourdough and poached if your worried 🙂 .. skip the butter and have crushed or smashed avocado as well .. but I haven’t taught them that one yet.. maybe have sprinkle of sliced and diced chilli to give it some zip.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2020)

harpo_72 said:



			You could go sourdough and poached if your worried 🙂 .. skip the butter and have crushed or smashed avocado as well .. but I haven’t taught them that one yet.. maybe have sprinkle of sliced and diced chilli to give it some zip.
		
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Now you're talking, I dint know if I'd vibe able to resist your heart attack on toast though 😂


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## woofers (Apr 13, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Drag it out and I can see some *looking for pastures new and a cheaper option*

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Not much choice in your neck of the woods is there ?


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## fundy (Apr 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Now you're talking, I dint know if I'd vibe able to resist your heart attack on toast though 😂
		
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lol like youre ever choosing the second option


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## Jacko_G (Apr 13, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Admittedly I am a pessimist but I fear there is a real possibility that golf courses won't be open for play at all this year. The question of renewing next year after paying a year's subs for nothing will be difficult.
		
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£1300 paid in January. Wettest winter ever saw very little golf now this!

😡😡😡😡


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## Jacko_G (Apr 13, 2020)

My mate is a golf course general manager. This is renewal time and they're 130 members down on last year at this stage. He knows that they have him and the club over a barrel. 

They know from the club accounts that the club will not turn them away in August (or whenever) when they come back saying that they're prepared to pay pro rata basis for the rest of the season. And he knows he'll have to accept them with a happy smiling face despite what he truly thinks.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 13, 2020)

woofers said:



			Not much choice in your neck of the woods is there ?
		
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Limited aside from Downshire which is a council owned P&P. Assume some will go nomadic


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## IanM (Apr 13, 2020)

....true.  Some clubs will be able to hold the position, some won't  as you say above.

The longer this goes on the more lumpy this will be. 

 My own club is saying no refunds (from sub year that starts Jan 1)  I wonder how many will resign now and be eligible for a pro rata refund for rest of year, then join somewhere else on the resumption.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			lol like youre ever choosing the second option 

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Believe it or not I'm 4st lighter in the last 18 months or so by eating the latter instead of the former!!


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## fundy (Apr 13, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Believe it or not I'm 4st lighter in the last 18 months or so by eating the latter instead if the former!!
		
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fair play fella, i knew youd lost a chunk of timber 

i lost it, got injured put it back on and half of its off again!

still reckon you'll choose option 1 on a golf day


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## Jacko_G (Apr 13, 2020)

IanM said:



			....true.  Some clubs will be able to hold the position, some won't  as you say above.

The longer this goes on the more lumpy this will be.

My own club is saying no refunds (from sub year that starts Jan 1)  I wonder how many will resign now and be eligible for a pro rata refund for rest of year, then join somewhere else on the resumption.
		
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Surely you can't and wouldn't get a refund for the year if you put in a resignation now?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 13, 2020)

fundy said:



			fair play fella, i knew youd lost a chunk of timber 

i lost it, got injured put it back on and half of its off again!

*still reckon you'll choose option 1 on a golf day* 

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I agree 🤣🤣


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## moogie (Apr 14, 2020)

https://www.thegolfbusiness.co.uk/2...ubs-launch-appeals-for-donations-and-members/


Worrying times it seems...... 

How many others in similar situations??


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## Stuart_C (Apr 14, 2020)

moogie said:



https://www.thegolfbusiness.co.uk/2...ubs-launch-appeals-for-donations-and-members/


Worrying times it seems......

How many others in similar situations??
		
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100’s would be my guess.


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## Duffer5 (Apr 15, 2020)

happy with what my club are doing charging a 1/3 of normal subs till this is over


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## OnTour (Apr 20, 2020)

Difficult times ahead, update we got a free month. I'm sure they don't actually watch the news 1st May is the new renewal date moved from April. written email talking about we haven't lost many days since 2015. seriously I've already washed the 5 months lost (email said 4 not true) 

I'm paying pro rata from when we restart, no more! happy to ride my bike and run for a year and play opens and look at a new club for 2021 - club hasn't done enough for me to warrant sticking with them unless they change there attitude. sadly being part of a social club affects the ability to run a good golf club.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 20, 2020)

This pandemic could see a huge change in how clubs run their subscription/membership fees in future. Monthly arrangements are there to help members more than the clubs themselves.

Membership fees are based on a yearly subscription, not on monthly basis.

Refusing to pay for “missed months” could lead to legal action. I know this was done at my old club who had a few new members, 6 iirc ,who signed up in April played for the whole of summer then in October left and cancelled the DD.

The club recovered all of the monies owed.


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## fundy (Apr 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			This pandemic could see a huge change in how clubs run their subscription/membership fees in future. Monthly arrangements are there to help members more than the clubs themselves.

Membership fees are based on a yearly subscription, not on monthly basis.

Refusing to pay for “missed months” could lead to legal action. I know this was done at my old club who had a few new members, 6 iirc ,who signed up in April played for the whole of summer then in October left and cancelled the DD.

The club recovered all of the monies owed.
		
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true in a lot of cases but not all, have been a member on a monthly membership basis before


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## Fish (Apr 20, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			This pandemic could see a huge change in how clubs run their subscription/membership fees in future. Monthly arrangements are there to help members more than the clubs themselves.

Membership fees are based on a yearly subscription, not on monthly basis. 

Refusing to pay for “missed months” could lead to legal action. I know this was done at my old club who had a few new members, 6 iirc ,who signed up in April played for the whole of summer then in October left and cancelled the DD.

The club recovered all of the monies owed.
		
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It’s a legal contract at the end of the day, for 12 months membership, the monthly dd as you state, is simply a financial agreement to help spread the payments, with no guarantees to play any amount of times within each or any given month, unless it specifically states otherwise.

Those that choose to leave like in your example, would have no legal standing, anyone currently cancelling a dd could see themselves in default with interest to pay and those not rejoining until the lockdown is lifted could potentially find themselves struggling to rejoin anywhere and most definitely not the club they chose not to support!


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## Stuart_C (Apr 20, 2020)

fundy said:



			true in a lot of cases but not all, have been a member on a monthly membership basis before
		
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There can’t be many that operate  like that.


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## nickjdavis (Apr 20, 2020)

Our owner has announced that he will look at pro-rataing next year's fees down to take account for the lost time this year.is

no guarantees yet...there's a long way to go before we get back playing and a lot will depend on how well the business bounced back once lockdown is lifted.


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## need_my_wedge (May 2, 2020)

Club report on Covid stating that one unnamed club has been threatened with legal action by a member for not being able to play

https://www.bunkered.co.uk/golf-new...s-to-sue-golf-club-over-covid-19-restrictions

I get it, we're all frustrated with it, many members paying for something that we can't use. But if we don't, it likely won't be there to for us to use. It's hardly the clubs fault. Equally, an issue for those less fortunate, furloughed etc that maybe can't make payments. It's a tough situation all round, but suing the club us not the way forward.


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## Ye Olde Boomer (May 2, 2020)

Nobody is being charged fees.  
Dues, which are not considered fees, have not been refunded, however.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 2, 2020)

need_my_wedge said:



			Club report on Covid stating that one unnamed club has been threatened with legal action by a member for not being able to play

https://www.bunkered.co.uk/golf-new...s-to-sue-golf-club-over-covid-19-restrictions

I get it, we're all frustrated with it, many members paying for something that we can't use. But if we don't, it likely won't be there to for us to use. It's hardly the clubs fault. Equally, an issue for those less fortunate, furloughed etc that maybe can't make payments. It's a tough situation all round, but suing the club us not the way forward.
		
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Part of me would feel like taking the hard line attitude and saying thats fine, we're cancel your membership with immediate effect and you can find a course that will let you play. Good luck. People need to have some realistic expectations and if the clubs have communicated their intention to continue to take subs while closed I wonder what the legal position will be


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## Ye Olde Boomer (May 2, 2020)

Traminator said:



			Same thing, our membership fees are your dues.
		
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Ah!


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## IanM (May 2, 2020)

I've never seen a contract promising 12 months golf.  But I've seen contracts with plenty of clauses about no liability for lost days.  (I was a member at a course in the 90s which was often closed when wet!)

Refunds/suspension of fees are Goodwill. (As I understand it, but I've studied no law in 25 years )  unless someone has sign something different!
Even so, it has force majeure all over it!

Waterlogging, snow, government order... good luck in court pal


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