# is this lesson correct?



## garyinderry (Jul 29, 2015)

I can't get my head around it. 

[video=youtube;cCRsU7OAJqg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCRsU7OAJqg[/video]


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## Region3 (Jul 29, 2015)

Can't answer your question but it's an impressive result. It would be nice to see her swing before that lesson.

It's either genius or gobbledegook.

Thanks though, like my head needed any more stuff in it!!


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## garyinderry (Jul 29, 2015)

As someone whip wraps the club around my back then sometimes manages to drop the club even deeper this is a mind melt.


It looks like he is teaching her an OTT move. Something which she probably did 10 years ago.


Or else this is how they all swing on the LPGA.   looks amazing but I cannot for the life of me replicate it.

I can't even do the proper take away


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## hovis (Jul 29, 2015)

I personally dont think you can have an effect on what the club is doing at impact by using your hands.  We're just Not strong enough to stop/divert such momentum


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## Garush34 (Jul 29, 2015)

Confused by that whole lesson. Too much going on its not possible to get much out of it, but she seemed to get it working in the end.


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## Craigg (Jul 29, 2015)

Knew I shouldn't have watched it!


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## mteam (Jul 29, 2015)

The clubhead out move is what my coach is always wanting me to do


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## JustOne (Jul 30, 2015)

I thought the first half of the lesson was pretty good and she seemed to swing quite nicely... that 2nd part will ruin just about 100% of swings :thup:


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## garyinderry (Jul 30, 2015)

mteam said:



			The clubhead out move is what my coach is always wanting me to do
		
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The take away I get.  Not that I can do it but I've seen it many times.


Its the bit around 6.38 that I just don't get.


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## mteam (Jul 30, 2015)

Sorry I meant the clubhead out on the downswing. He always wants me working the club around my body not towards the target


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## Region3 (Jul 30, 2015)

Looks credible...




			Mikeâ€™s career has spanned more than 38 years of instruction and playing experience working alongside Jim Flick with the Nicklaus/Flick Golf Schools from 1991 through 2002 and served as director of instruction for the Jack Nicklaus Golf Center in Japan (1992-1995). He has served as a consultant to TaylorMade-Adidas Golf Worldwide since 2002. His students have included multiple PGA and LPGA Tour players, as well as celebrities and prominent political figures throughout the world. Malaska is currently the Worldwide Instruction Director of Jack Nicklaus Golf Academies and the PGA Director of Instruction for Superstition Mountain Golf and Country Club in the Phoenix metropolitan area. Mike was named the national PGA Teacher of the Year in 2011. He has shared his expertise as a guest lecturer at the PGA Teaching and Coaching Summit, multiple national corporate functions and as a guest instructor for Golf Channel. Malaskaâ€™s instruction expertise has been featured in numerous publications including Golf Magazine, Golf Digest and PGA Magazine. In 2004, Malaska produced his own instructional DVD, â€œYou Are Your Own Swing,â€ featuring 2.5 hours of both golf and fitness instruction. In 2013, Malaska authored and released his first instruction book, â€œI Feel Your Pain,â€ to rave reviews. A graduate of Weber State University in Ogden, Utah, he was a college â€œAll Americanâ€ in 1974 and was inducted into the Universityâ€™s â€œAthletic Hall of Fameâ€ in February 1999. Malaska competed in a number of PGA and Champions Tour events, including the 1988, 2009, and 2010 PGA Championships, and the 1982 and 1986 U.S. Opens. Recognized as the Utah Section PGA Teacher of the Year (1996), the Southwest Section PGA Teacher of the Year (2010) and the national PGA Teacher of the Year (2011).
		
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## JustOne (Jul 30, 2015)

I think the confusion comes from the fact that it looks like the clubhead is coming outside the hands and he's 'turning the steering wheel to the left' but if you pay attention to 6min 17secs he says "there's your backswing' and the 'steering wheel' is turned *to the right*. 


From that position a turn to the left would just put it back to where it started (back to 'neutral' again).... not to the left.

I don't like the way he shows it at all as his representation of what is happening is very misleading, as proved by the OP.




6min 42secs - 6min 44secs







not confusing at all


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## garyinderry (Jul 30, 2015)

I will watch this again later.     knew you'd get to the bottom of it.     its certainly clear as mud. Lol


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## JustOne (Jul 30, 2015)

In *physical* terms the swing is a set of positions

But in *mental* terms the swing is based around a set of things that we FEEL we are doing.

The two are like chalk and cheese to some. He's trying to explain as a FEEL something that actually happens physically - he didn't need to add that part as she had it any way. When you start the downswing you will 'turn the wheel' naturally (back to the neutral position) as you turned it to the right already on your backswing without even noticing (if that makes sense). If you (or her) actually physically DID what he's showing her in your swings you'd be screwed


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## Region3 (Jul 30, 2015)

The difference in those 2 pictures is where she is looking. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if she thinks the has the club in the same position both times.

I can't remember if it was this video or another I looked at where he said everybody is trying to get to the classic halfway down picture of club parallel to target and hands in front.
Some people think they have hit it when in fact the club is way behind them. Make them feel like the club is way outside and hey presto they hit the right position.

I agree it's confusing, but what we're seeing and what she's feeling is happening are two different things IMO.


As for the steering wheel analogy, I think I know where he is coming from, ie right turn for the backswing, back to neutral at impact and left turn for follow through, but why not just neutral all the way through? What am I missing?


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## garyinderry (Jul 30, 2015)

JustOne said:



			In *physical* terms the swing is a set of positions

But in *mental* terms the swing is based around a set of things that we FEEL we are doing.

The two are like chalk and cheese to some. He's trying to explain as a FEEL something that actually happens physically - he didn't need to add that part as she had it any way. When you start the downswing you will 'turn the wheel' naturally (back to the neutral position) as you turned it to the right already on your backswing without even noticing (if that makes sense). If you (or her) actually physically DID what he's showing her in your swings you'd be screwed 

Click to expand...

I tired it while hitting some foam balls at home.   felt (there is that word again) like I was swinging left.  Without seeing proper flight most likely slicing them.


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## Region3 (Jul 30, 2015)

This one explains it a little better I think.

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I23oTVOY52k[/video]


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## JustOne (Jul 30, 2015)

Region3 said:



*I think I know where he is coming from, ie right turn for the backswing, back to neutral at impact and left turn for follow through*, but why not just neutral all the way through? What am I missing?
		
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You nailed it.

You can't go neutral all the way thru because as you make your backswing the right arm bends and the left arm raises, this (unknowingly) creates the 'right turn' position, so you have to come back to neutral on the way down to square the face...... that said - you have to add in the fact that the body is turning (opening) and that body rotation ISN'T supposed to stall or stop.... so there really isn't any need for the club to turn more left than the neutral position during the swing as it shouldn't ever really catch up with your turn (unless you stall and flip)


Interesting beginning to that vid you posted above..


"Your hands are 8-10inches higher....."



Yeh right, the Bulls##t begins!!







I'd say his hands are ONE inch higher and 3 inches away from him..... lots of golfers do this, Ernie Els is one example I can think of.


Dare I watch the remaining 11 minutes of the vid.......


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## JustOne (Jul 30, 2015)

Rather than trying to figure out WHAT to do at the beginning it's sometimes easier to figure out WHY you are trying to do it or WHERE you have to get to.

It looks like he's trying to teach the guy to 'turn the corner' which (in basic language) means to turn the handle of the club to the left of your thigh as you go thru impact and it's far easier to do when you think about the handle end of the club rather than the awkward end (the bit you are not holding)

On the left is how the guy WAS swinging... the butt of the club points at the target (or to the right of it) in his downswing (for too long) so he has to stall/flip/early extend/raise his hands to get the clubhead into the ball

On the right is where the handle SHOULD GO, it's almost as if on your downswing you are putting the handle around the side of your left pocket...... it doesn't really get there because you should be turning your left pocket out of the way as you turn your hips.






It's a lot easier to do if you make a swing thinking of where you want the handle to end up rather than how to get there.


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## JustOne (Jul 30, 2015)

The right way to control the handle... The Punisher Drill

[video=youtube;7RR8xMitTV8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RR8xMitTV8[/video]

If you don't turn the corner (and your body) you'll have sore ribs in the morning.


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## garyinderry (Jul 30, 2015)

This is mind blowing.     why is there a million videos on the web telling people to shallow on the downswing. 


I would need someone with a big stick standing beside me beating this into.  Life of a flat flipper :swing:


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## JustOne (Jul 30, 2015)

garyinderry said:



			This is mind blowing.     why is there a million videos on the web telling people to shallow on the downswing.
		
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It's a case of those getting too shallow that they get stuck, you gotta unstick 'em


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## garyinderry (Jul 30, 2015)

I fear a pile of winter work coming up.   like learning to walk again. 


Faldo said when he was hitting his best irons he felt as if he was coming slightly OTT.   maybe this is it.


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## garyinderry (Jul 30, 2015)

mteam said:



			The clubhead out move is what my coach is always wanting me to do
		
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Your inbox is full bud. I cannot reply until you delete some.


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## mteam (Jul 30, 2015)

garyinderry said:



			Your inbox is full bud. I cannot reply until you delete some.
		
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Sorted now. I didnt realise


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## the_coach (Jul 30, 2015)

couple of considerations for any folks contemplating taking anything from a couple of folks individual video lessons, one a big handle dragger so the release of the shaft so clubhead never really takes place without manipulation to a vertical shaft at impact, the other too back & under plane so little ways EE & the arms hands/handle so clubhead got to travel ways to much right field also leading to a little ways too vertical shaft at impact

so folks gotta be really aware & pay real good attention what is happening & being described to happen with the hips, & the pelvic angles here 

so at the top of the backswing say if the player being observed from the target side dtl the hip turn gone into the hip socket so the right glute (butt) would be 'deep' - the back right pants pocket would have rotated towards this viewpoint towards the target - at no point would it have moved aways from the target to trailside

similarly into & at impact the left glute (butt) would from normal dtl trailside viewpoint would appear 'deep' the back left pants pocket would have rotated trailside towards this viewpoint & aways from the target

hips gotta turn (as they always have to) any lateral sway &/or pelvic extension upwards (a straightening up of the pelvic angle) in the move off the ball a big no

as then there will be no room for the hands/handle & arms to travel downwards into as described in the video & the right shoulder will be unable to bump downwards at transition before it travels diagonally to the ball - so the move from the top  if no proper hip turn will still be outwards first & over the top - but that will be, if this happens to an incorrect understanding not the instruction

at start transition it's just a transfer of weight pressure to the left - not a big left lateral move as if it does that the left hip cannot turn/rotate & clear back to get in the 'deep' position (take a look at virtually every real good Tour player into & at impact dtl you'll see that deep left glute/butt position)


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## the_coach (Jul 30, 2015)

[video=youtube;tzKZjIl5f9Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzKZjIl5f9Y[/video]


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## JustOne (Jul 31, 2015)

I think this video says a lot for when you dive in with some swing theory you find on a youtube clip and how it might not suit YOUR swing... a deep backswing with a strong body pivot clearly doesn't suit this slip of a girl so she is being taught a more 'armsy' swing

[video=youtube;xu5LLCOeyeM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu5LLCOeyeM[/video]



Two different instructors, two different players, two different concepts....








#iloveitthatgolfissoconfusing


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## the_coach (Jul 31, 2015)

she's an Oklahoma State grad, this is her rookie year on the Symetra Tour, & LPGA Tour -(non-exempt)
she still has little ways good hip + upper body rotation goin on

- that age old practice feel, to real during a through the ball swing motion







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## turkish (Jul 31, 2015)

I emailed the dude and like a lot said was a feel vs real scenario...

Here's his reply-    I can not seem to find the video. But I know the one. First of all what you have to feel like you are doing and a swing and what actually happens when you try to do something is very different. That is one big reason why our industry is so in trouble and why players are not getting better. If you look at positions you are missing what is going on. When you swing a club there are multiple forces acting on the club and your body.These forces can not be seen. But they exist. In fact how you use these forces is what makes the pictures happen that you want to see. 
  The video was showing you that as you change directions in your swing the club as it starts down is gaining in speed and force. You have to be offsetting that force to get the club in the correct position. So you feel as though the handle of the club is coming straight down and the club head is being directed into the correct arch for the momentum of the club to run the club into the ball. If you pull the handle out of the top the weight of the club is immediately behind your hands and you then will have to catch the club head up. This causes a push or a flip hook. Tour players call this getting stuck. Also if you watch that video you will see that the club is coming over my hands but the club head is still coming from inside the target line into the ball. I call this over the top from the inside. 
  If you want an example of someone who is constantly making the exact swing that I showed on the video watch Justin Rose. Who ever is working with him on this feeling is starting to figure out the offsetting forces. I hope that that helps you. My website will be up in a few weeks and I will be going into all of these types of discussions. I have been very lucky over the years to be with some of the best in many different disciplines. The physiology industry. The applied physics and neurology group and the learning industry. I have learned much more from these experts than from golf professionals. Because they understand exactly what is happening. Most golf instruction is done by asking good players what they feel like they are doing. That is a train wreck. Also our industry is one of the only professional industries that does not have a standardized vocabulary. Words mean whatever you want them to. 
  I do not mean to go on. But my goal is to help players have a better chance of becoming good players. it is not that the positions that they see and strive for are wrong. They are correct. But what the body needs to do and what you have to feel like you are doing with the club to make them happen more consistently is where the problem is


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## garyinderry (Jul 31, 2015)

You see Justin rose constantly rehearsing that move on the downswing.   


O hit a few yellow balls in the house last night and he was the golfer who sprung to mind. He swings with the club out in front but when he gets it wrong he hit the shâ€¢â€¢ks Like I did.


Liking that description above. "over the top from the inside''


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## Spuddy (Aug 1, 2015)

I tried this swing thought today (handle down club head out) and hit a lot more greens in reg.  It was hard to see if the ball was going further as it was pretty breezy but the flight was good and they went straight.


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## mteam (Aug 2, 2015)

@Garyinderry did you give it a go? if so how did you find it


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## garyinderry (Aug 2, 2015)

I'll be honest. I didn't get time to go to the practice ground to give this too much thought.

I arrived on the first tee with a new three wood in tow yesterday. Managed a birdie and was concentrating hard on the round from then on.  I did try to swing more on plane. If I achieved this or not I am not sure.  4 birdies and 3 bogies later I am not too bothered.  First round ever under par. 

Putting it all down to the new three wood.  Was on the short stuff all day. Easy game then. 

Today the course was jammed and only got 11 holes in before sacking it and going home.  It was a joke how slow it was going.  Society and scratch matches in front.


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